# Found out my wife was having an affair



## t666a4

Me (m30) found out my wife (f30) of 9 years was sending pictures to a guy, made out with him. : relationships

There is my post on reddit concerning this

But a quick rundown.

Two Saturday's ago, she was drunk, and he kissed her, they suppsoedly made out, then she pushed him off saying it was wrong.

This last week, we were out of town. And they texted back and forth a lot, and she said he asked for pictures from her.

She said she was confused but was seeking attention. She sent him a lot of pictures. 

And they have been texting back and forth every sense, a lot of texts. Two nights ago, having my radar going off, I grabbed her phone and cornered her into telling me what was going on.

She wouldn't give any details till I had to basically interrogated them out of her. I felt like I didnt get an answer till I asked the question.

Basically, I was referred here from Reddit, I wanted to one, try and recover the text messages, she has an iphone 4s. And two, I want to get advice in here.

Just to be clear as well. I tried recovering from itunes, but she hasnt synced this last week. 
Also, I'm not sure why I want to see the texts, but it feels like I need verification of everything she said, because its hard to believe anything she says right now. I mean, on one hand I believe her, but maybe I am being too trusting, and she is telling me what I want to hear.


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## DedicatedDad

*Spybubble, webwatcher, phone sheriff, mobile-spy, stealth genie.
*

Once you have all the evidence you need demand that your wife cut off all contact with the OM, she must become completely transparent and open to you, passwords, accounts, phones, etc...

This is a start, but first you have to get the OM out of the picture and that means forever, no contact, zilch, zero, nada, no mas, nothing, no contact means no contact.

Good Luck


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## the guy

Trust your gut , she lied to once she will lie to you again.

It will take some time but for now everything she says needs to be verified...thats just how it is.

The betrayal gives you every right to not trust her for now and it is her transparentcy and accountablity compined with hard proof that will confirm her words.

In short she has given you more then enough to not trust her...a consequences she now has to face for her actions.


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## SomedayDig

Of course you want to believe her...she's your wife. However, that is the tough part - she wasn't acting like your wife in the least bit when she was "making out" with a guy. If you've read some of the threads around here, and I hate to be the one to say this, but "making out" is usually code for some kind of sexual activity whether oral or full blown sex.

Also, you need to understand some of the other language of infidelity. "He kissed her" usually means she wanted it just as badly but doesn't want to admit it - especially in a drunk state. "She pushed him off saying it was wrong" usually means they finished what they were doing and she felt guilty. Otherwise...she would not have afterwards sent so many texts and pics. Period.

As for needing to see the texts...well, you don't really need to see them. What you need is for your wife to tell you exactly what she said and what the pics exactly showed. I promise you this, man: Be prepared for her to trickle truth you to death on this stuff. Unless she truly feels remorse for what she did, and by your description that doesn't appear to be the case, then you may never get the truth...you'll get the "truth".


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## AZman

Man, I feel for you. I started my post yesterday seeking help. I cannot say enough how helpful this site has been with advice and guidance.

It sucks that I ended up here as well as you, but I cannot say enough how much help and support I have gotten here. It has helped immensly. 

Best of luck to you.


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## thunderstruck

t666a4 said:


> She wouldn't give any details till I... out of her.


You might want to go back and edit or delete that line above (I shortened your quote) from your 1st post. It wouldn't be good for your wife to find it, and use it against you in court.


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## Shaggy

Problem number one: your wife is going out getting drunk without you. She's obviously going out to single places and getting drunk and meeting guys. That isn't something a married person should be doing.

Also they has sex. Two adults don't go kissy face together for too long before the clothes come off. It was at least oral sex or hand jobs.

The fact that she willingly took tons of nude photos and sent them to him shows that she has no problems at all being naked for him, that means she's been naked in person with him, and intended to be again,

As for you wife and the OM.

Contact with him is over for her forever. 

You however need to find his wife and tell her. Do not warn your wife that you may of it. Just find her and tell her that your wife and her husband have been having an affair.

I actually suggest you do tell your wife's friends. They might already know because she's likely told some of them. She's likely trash talked about you to them, and your wife needs to be held accountable for her choice to cheat,

Also understand that your wife didn't stop her cheating willingly and she right now has no remorse. She got caught and her only interest right now s saving herself, protecting her OM, and if she can arrange it, eventually containing the affair.

You cannot trust her to tell you the truth about anything for a long time.

Expect that she will try to contact the OM again, either through another channel like FB or another phone.

Exocet that she will continue to deny sex.

Demand she takes a polygraph, they cost a couple hundred and are easy to find locally, do a google search for polygraph and your city.


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## rrrbbbttt

Agree with Dig, Be aware of Trickle Truth. If it has gone as far a pictures, I assume nude sent over the internet she would have no issue with completing a PA.

You need to get answers and you need to understand the depth of this Affair. You are only in the first step.

As of right now your wife is not your wife she is a WS who is having an affair and has not stopped the Affair. You have only discovered it and now she is doing damage control.


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## AZman

DedicatedDad said:


> *Spybubble, webwatcher, phone sheriff, mobile-spy, stealth genie.
> *
> 
> Once you have all the evidence you need demand that your wife cut off all contact with the OM, she must become completely transparent and open to you, passwords, accounts, phones, etc...
> 
> This is a start, but first you have to get the OM out of the picture and that means forever, no contact, zilch, zero, nada, no mas, nothing, no contact means no contact.
> 
> Good Luck



Any reccomendations on which software is better than others? I am going to probably want it for an Iphone 4/4s


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## Shaggy

It's very obvious you wife's pan is to sweep the while thing under the rug and move on.

Let me tell you what will happen if you do that.

1. The same reasons your wife chose to cheat will still exist unchanged.
2. She will learn from how you caught her and will be smarter next time.
3. She will view you as weak and not worthy of her respect or love. You need to hold her accountable and face consequences, including people knowing that she cheated.

4. She will cheat again.

I am not saying for you to humiliate or get vengeance on her. I sm however telling you that you must hod her accountable.

She must give you forever full access to her passwords. You can and will be able to see everything she is doing and saying. No secrets. Married couples should not have secrets from one another. Privacy is closing the door on the bathroom, not the freedom to have secret relationships that you spouse is excluded from.

She must take a polygraph.

She must go to counseling.

She must stop drinking without you there and she no longer gets to go out partying and going to bars without you.

She has to earn back the privilege of being your wife.. 

She must come clench to her friends with you present to hear it.she needs to take full ownership of her choice to chest and the consequences that come with it.


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## Shaggy

Your immediate goal is exposing to the OMW. That will get him to break off contact with your wife to save his own hide.

It will also get her to not want yo be with him because he will be dumping her hard.

It is also a great test to see if she is actually interested in trying to fix your marriage. If she is wanting to be loyal to you, he wont care that the OM is exposed and won't care that he dumps her.


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## t666a4

Thanks for everything.

To clarify a few things.

We sat together yesterday morning, he texted her. And I asked her what she wanted to say, and we texted it, together back to him breaking it off.

I told her she is never ever to contact him again for any reason whatsoever.

One of her friends knows, and I kind of want to talk to her privately about it.

I also want to talk to him.

I'm scared though.


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## SomedayDig

Scared of what? Finding out how deep the rabbit hole goes?! Dude, you need to snap out of this and simply hold your wife's feet to the fire on this. No one and I mean NO ONE is gonna have more answers than she. Also, there's no reason to talk to the other guy. What are ya gonna say? More importantly, do you honestly think HE would tell YOU the truth?! Forget it.


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## tom67

t666a4 said:


> Thanks for everything.
> 
> To clarify a few things.
> 
> We sat together yesterday morning, he texted her. And I asked her what she wanted to say, and we texted it, together back to him breaking it off.
> 
> I told her she is never ever to contact him again for any reason whatsoever.
> 
> One of her friends knows, and I kind of want to talk to her privately about it.
> 
> I also want to talk to him.
> 
> I'm scared though.


Talk to the friend I wouldn't waste my time with him though you will look weak but get info from the friend or anyone else who was there.


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## Shaggy

Do not talk to him. It is a waste of time. He will lie and say anything to cover himself.

Do tell his wife. It's your very very best bet at truly ending the affair.

Go read the thread "I cheated" and see that it helped end that woman's cheating on her husband,


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## SomedayDig

Here is your message from Reddit:

*Hey,

My wife has been acting weird lately, it was small things. But they added up, and finally last night I confronted her.

She wouldn't hand over her cell phone, so I took it, and asked her to punch in her password.

She did then asked it for back right away. I held onto it and told her what I was thinking. THat she has been acting weird lately, and I wanted to see what was up.

Finally I get out of her that some guy was trying to sleep with her.

She swears up and down that she didn't, so we keep going, and I get out of her that two Saturdays ago she made out with him, but finally pushed him off of her and said she can't.

Last week, apparently though, she has been texting the living **** out of him. Including lots of nude pictures. Apparently, this guy, who is also married, was trying to get her to meet him today. She said she wasn't going to do anything and avoid him, because she has too much guilt from what had happened already.

He texted her this morning, after we were up most of the night talking and crying. I sat there while she texted him that it was over and she couldn't do it, and continue, in less words.

She told me all of this, because pretty much all of the text messages were deleted. But she kept leaving things out till I asked specific questions, then something else would come out.

I looked on our cell phone bill online, and saw tons of text messages to his number, and a lot more pictures than she said she sent him.

She then said that she had resent some of the pictures from last week.

I don't know what to do, I don't really have anyone to talk to, as my friends wife's are her friends and I don't want this getting out*


So...this other guy is out to bang your wife and weeks after she knows what he's about she "makes out" with him.

Well, bro...there's your answer. Unless you wanna see the cold and harsh reality, I'm outta here. Which isn't really a big deal in the end as I hardly have any advice to give.


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## Cdelta02

Its normal to be scared. However, you should listen to Shaggy. There havent been enough consequences here for her to really break it off. Even if she is true to her word with this OM, before long there will be another.

This is what you need to do:
1. Expose affair to OM's wife (OMW). Provide her with the details she will need to confront.
1a. Expose the affair to at least 50% of her friends, especially those who she thinks highly of and who she looks up to. The intent of exposing is to bring shame and reality into the picture and make sure that the castle in the sky she has been building comes crashing down.
2. Ask your wife to write down a timeline of everything that happened. Include as many details as possible, especially everything that you want to know. Writing this down is important. How many texts, how many nude, how many re-sent, etc. If she doesnt remember, ballparks are ok. However dont give this up so easily, push for actual details as much as you can.
3. Ask her to sync her phone in front of you. Get into iTunes and validate what she told you and wrote down. Tell her no more deletion of texts. You will be checking up on the providers records. Any deletion and you will take it as her planning sex with OM.
4. Tell her if she is missing any details and hoping you will gloss over it, she is wrong. This is her one and only chance to come clean completely.
5. Tell her you want a polygraph. See her reaction. It will tell you a lot of whether she has been truthful. Then go ahead and schedule one. 
6. You are going to have her put in the NC letter as mentioned before by others.
7. You will need to remove the chances she will meet up with the OM. I dont know where they met, but it must no longer be made available, if they met at work, she needs to find some other place to work, etc.
8. Dont be afraid of losing her. If you dont want this to happen again, you have to lose your own fear and go nuclear on the affair.
9. Once this is done, no more nights out by herself. You both go or she stays at home. You can watch movies together instead.
10. if there are periods when she is alone put in VARs to capture what is being said. Also do put keyloggers on her PC.
11. Check to see if she is truly remorseful.


And finally, go contact a lawyer and know what your rights are. Even if you dont file for a D, you should know.


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## AZman

Man, no good can come from talking to him. He is going to lie, or worse piss you off. Neither are going to help you.


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## t666a4

Okay, I wont talk to him about it.

I do still want to talk to her friend that she was with that night.

We have helped her so much going through her divorce. (Yes, her best friend is going through a divorce right now, and happens to be sleeping around with others.)

I think she would talk to me.

I asked her to do a timeline, and we spoke again for along time just now.

I got other things out of her, and told her that me having to interrogate her isnt helping the situation. She spilled a few more things about what happened. About their "making out" session.

She still swears they didn't have sex, but I only think that makes this sorta worth trying to save, had she admitted to extra marital sex I would defintely have cut it off and would be talking to a lawyer. I think I might anyways though, since everyone is recommending it.

I am not sure how to track down the OM's wife... any suggestions? 
I know where he works, but that is it. 

We already synced phones and went over everything.
She apparently deleted all the messages right after they happened or well before I was able to get onto her phone.

I wasn't able to find anything one her itunes backup. I looked over Verizon's website.

I didnt see any indication that they ever talked before two saturdays ago. But the first text from his number was the 18th-26th. 

She said she was trying to stop it as of Monday, but also on Monday she sent him a load of pictures earlier in the day, so I just dont know what to believe. I guess, she said she didn't know why she kept sending them, felt pressured (which I immediately called bull**** on)


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## t666a4

What do you mean by NC letter?


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## Shaggy

Use his name and phone number and search for him on FB and also via spokeo and pipl, and the good old phone book.


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## Eli-Zor

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Read the above link it covers the NC letter and whole lot more .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

If he is a tattoo artist, then he 90% chance has facebook so that he can have a following on his page. It's how they do business. Well, at least the smart ones. You'll find him and hence his wife if you really want to.

As I said, she's smoke screening so much - now with the feeling pressured to send him nudie pics?! Give me a f'ng break. She was sending them because you had no idea what was going on. She'd be sending them right now if you hadn't caught her.


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## Shaggy

Expect the gf to lie to you. In fact expect the gf to offer her help in helping your wife hookup with the OM as providing cover and even the place to do it.


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## SomedayDig

Shaggy said:


> Expect the gf to lie to you. In fact expect the gf to offer her help in helping your wife hookup with the OM as providing cover and even the place to do it.


Of course! She needs a wingman, too. Besides, she was with the other tattoo artist in his car that Saturday night. Hmmm...separate cars, his wife in one and the newly divorced chick in the other, each with their own tattoist...driving to a Mexican restaurant after getting inked.

But there was no sex.

I bet the divorcee chick didn't have sex either. Just made out.


Ummm...dude...she's gotta drop the divorcee chick. Period.


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## aug

Cheaters will vehemently lie -- that's to be expected.

You should assume that it did go physical and proceed from there.

Protect and isolate your finances and assets. Do not have any joint bank accounts, joint credit cards/debts/loans.

Find out where you stand legally now. File that divorce paper.

Since her friend is also a cheater and getting divorced, I dont think your wife is as concerned about the marriage as she should if she really loves you.

It'll be her job to convince you otherwise. Divorce takes time and you can always pull back if you want to reconcile.

A surprise polygraph test may help ease your mind, though it can be defeated by some.


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## TDSC60

SomedayDig said:


> Scared of what? Finding out how deep the rabbit hole goes?! Dude, you need to snap out of this and simply hold your wife's feet to the fire on this. No one and I mean NO ONE is gonna have more answers than she. Also, there's no reason to talk to the other guy. What are ya gonna say? More importantly, do you honestly think HE would tell YOU the truth?! Forget it.


Yeah - forget about the truth from OM. 

The GF may be a good shot but if she is not your friend also the odds of getting the truth from her a zero.


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## t666a4

Okay, I am attempting to contact the OM's wife right now.

I told my wife that we need to talk to all of our parents tonight.

I am not sure who else to tell. The link above says to tell ****ing everyone.


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## TCSRedhead

There are ways of recovering the deleted data (see the gathering evidence thread). 

I'm sorry you're here. I hate to say it but your wife is likely to suspect that admitting to physical contact would end the marriage and not be honest, unfortunately. 

If you are unable to recover the data and get the truth, I'd recommend a polygraph. If she did have sex AND it was unprotected, then you could be exposed to whatever STD's the OM may have. 

Once you have the truth and IF you decide to reconcile, the friend has gotta go. Anyone who would sit by or help with her cheating is not a friend to your marriage. I would seriously doubt you'd get the truth from her since she'll cover for her friend.


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## walkonmars

I would be shocked if her friend was even 25% truthful with you. She probably goaded your wife into badmouthing you to promote the affair. Why was she getting a divorce in the first place? Do you know? I mean the truth?


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## tom67

They are a little expensive but you could consider a polygraph test. Just the threat of one may get the whole truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> There are ways of recovering the deleted data (see the gathering evidence thread).
> 
> I'm sorry you're here. I hate to say it but your wife is likely to suspect that admitting to physical contact would end the marriage and not be honest, unfortunately.
> 
> If you are unable to recover the data and get the truth, I'd recommend a polygraph. If she did have sex AND it was unprotected, then you could be exposed to whatever STD's the OM may have.
> 
> Once you have the truth and IF you decide to reconcile, the friend has gotta go. Anyone who would sit by or help with her cheating is not a friend to your marriage. I would seriously doubt you'd get the truth from her since she'll cover for her friend.


God, didn't think about the STDs, but everyone has been mentioning it. We've had sex a couple times since two saturdays ago.

I dont think she is lying about not sleeping with him. But I'm not sure, I cant really believe a damn thing she says. A polygraph sounds... I dont know, kind of hilarious, but only in the laugh because it keeps me sane way.

I think I agree on the friend, except its her boss...

Do I just limit them from hanging out without me, or do I make it so she never hangs out with that friend ever agin.

My wife doesnt have very many friends... I dont know.


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## TDSC60

Hanging out with anyone without you is out of the question for the foreseeable future. You can not trust her.

Truthfully with what she has admitted to already and the high potential she is lying to you about what has happened, I would not be laughing at a polygraph too much. That maybe the only way you get the truth.

Not sure of the cost or availability where you are but a poly can run $300 and up. Usually they are limited to as few as three Yes or No questions.

With no children and a wife showing a tendency and willingness to get physical with another man - not real sure I would stick around for round two of this drama.


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## the guy

Until she starts to face consequences she won't change. This is a toxic friend and not a friend of the marriage. I would expect her to stop all contact with her boss on a personal level, if she expects to affair proof her marriage. 

But thats just me.

Your wife may not want to affair proof her marriage and once things settle down...maybe in a few of years she can find a new OM.


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## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> God, didn't think about the STDs, but everyone has been mentioning it. We've had sex a couple times since two saturdays ago.
> 
> I dont think she is lying about not sleeping with him. But I'm not sure, I cant really believe a damn thing she says. A polygraph sounds... I dont know, kind of hilarious, but only in the laugh because it keeps me sane way.
> 
> I think I agree on the friend, except its her boss...
> 
> Do I just limit them from hanging out without me, or do I make it so she never hangs out with that friend ever agin.
> 
> My wife doesnt have very many friends... I dont know.


So, I'm speaking from the cheater perspective. Typically, if a wayward knows you don't have proof, the translation is that 'kissing' means oral sex. For that matter, even herpes is transferrable via kissing. It's just too much of a chance in my book. 

The polygraph is to be sure you know what you're working with if you really want to reconcile. After all, what if she comes up pregnant and you don't know who's the father? (Yes, this does happen and NO not just on Jerry Springer). You've already stated that if it's physical, it's a deal breaker so what incentive does she have to be honest? I would try getting the data first though. She doesn't get her phone back until you can attempt this recover. No more passwords. Period.

Honestly, this is not an appropriate friendship to have with a boss. This is a toxic environment. She needs to either quit the job or limit contact to AT work only. No going out or hanging out outside of work, period.


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## walkonmars

How long have they worked together? It's very odd that things 'just started' two weeks ago. The things she was willing to do for him in that period of time would make me very suspicious that it just started. IMO it's been going on a while - at least emotionally and finally went physical two weeks ago. That makes way more sense.


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## the guy

"but she doesn't have alot of friend"....well maybe if the the rest of the girls around town didn't have to worry about her taking there man, then maybe, just maybe she would have more friends!

I bet you anything that once this boss/friend gets through her divorce and starts seeing a man, the last thing she will want is you wife around her man........

Your wife has made guit a name for her self hasn't she?

Just saying!


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## the guy

It might be time for your wife to rethink her life style!


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## walkonmars

the guy said:


> It might be time for your wife to rethink her life style!



ummm That's the problem


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## Tony55

T666, step carefully here, remember to keep your composure, don't forget that the end game is for you to keep your wife, don't do anything that makes you look pathetic, keep a strong demeanor.

T


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## the guy

t666a4 said:


> She said she was trying to stop it as of Monday, but also on Monday she sent him a load of pictures earlier in the day, so I just dont know what to believe. I guess, she said she didn't know why she kept sending them, felt pressured (which I immediately called bull**** on)


It sound like you wife has an addiction. I mean pressure can be alot of things. Was it pressure from OM? Was it pressure from with in her self? If it was pressure from OM then what kind of pressure? If it was pressure with in her self, then what was it?

Your chick needs some professional help, cuz I think her answer was right on she did "feel pressure" put this pressure has alot to do with her phsyci then her consious mind can see.

Until she address her individual problem she will cheat again. She 1st needs to understand the "pressure" so she can learn the tools to control it. This has nothing to do with you or the marriage, it all about her.


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## TCSRedhead

Here's the part where I find it hard to buy your wife's story. I can buy the part about getting drunk and him making a pass and her fluffing it off IF there had been nothing after that. 

IF there had been nothing beyond that or no intent to f0ck him, then why did they exchange phone numbers? The exchange of pictures and texts were either a continuation of their sex and plans to meet up again or were just a lead up to having sex. Hard to know without the context of those texts which is why if you can't get them, I'd make a list of questions you want answers to and march her in for a poly.

Have you had any luck with the data? There is always the bluffing method too. Take her phone for a day, tell her you have all the texts, pictures, etc. that you got the data from a security expert/computer shop. Explain that this is her last chance to come completely clean since you know what was in them and it's a LOT more than she's told you. The problem with that approach is that if she knows you well, she may recognize it as a bluff and continue lying (see Mrs. Mathias' thread - she lied even when she KNEW her husband knew the truth). It's ingrained in us to protect ourselves.


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## TCSRedhead

Here's the gathering evidence thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html


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## shecheatedVA

I think you still caught it early. Many of us only learn about it after it becomes full PA. At that point, R is so much harder to do. Not saying what you're dealing with is any easier since it's all relative to the pain you're experiencing but you might be able to work through this.


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## t666a4

I will work on trying to recover stuff later when I get home.

For now though, we spoke and she came honest about some other things she had left out before.

All the signs point to that she is still lying about crap. Now she is saying that now every thing has come out.

I like to think I am decently close to her friend as well, and have been there for her through her divorce.

I called her friend and spoke to her. I dont believe that my wife had yet talked to her to sync up stories. And everything that she said she saw was pretty accurate as to what I got out of my wife.

Her friend did make it sound like she purposely went and tried to stop it from happening at least twice, maybe three times. So I dont know if she is responsible for it actually not happening or not.

I think I believe I have gotten out exactly what happened, unfortunately, it is impossible to get every detail as I wasnt there to see any of it.

My wife is at work now, so I am sure they will be talking about it today before she gets home. And I can try to talk more.

I definitely need to see the texts, if I can do that to cement what she's told me I think it will help me maybe find some trust, because up till now, she hasn't really given me any reason to trust her at all, with this whole trickle truth thing.


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## SomedayDig

You do have all the truth.

Until the next time she tells you the truth.

Trust me, man. So many of us have been where you are. Cheaters follow a script and it is almost comical how alike they all are. Comical in a dark way like "Cable Guy". Disturbingly so.


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## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> You do have all the truth.
> 
> Until the next time she tells you the truth.
> 
> Trust me, man. So many of us have been where you are. Cheaters follow a script and it is almost comical how alike they all are. Comical in a dark way like "Cable Guy". Disturbingly so.


That is really how it feels.

That I was able to get more info out of her today... after she said she was 100% honest yesterday.

Now she is saying she is 100% honest again... but now it seems like bull****. **** it did before, but I was trying to believe.


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## SomedayDig

Dude...my wife had an affair. I caught her back in March. She told me every time "Now you know everything".

Until August 30th. (preceded by knowing everything on 4/22, 5/5, 6/17, and 7/24)

Then I knew everything.

Until last month when a little bit came out. Then I knew everything.

Until possibly next time...


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## kenmoore14217

Come on man. She's lying big time!! And her toxic friend is lying for her as well. You need to do your own research on this and quit asking liars and cheaters for the truth! You will never get it.


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## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> Dude...my wife had an affair. I caught her back in March. She told me every time "Now you know everything".
> 
> Until August 30th. (preceded by knowing everything on 4/22, 5/5, 6/17, and 7/24)
> 
> Then I knew everything.
> 
> Until last month when a little bit came out. Then I knew everything.
> 
> Until possibly next time...


What did you do?


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## SomedayDig

t666a4 said:


> What did you do?


I processed it. I looked at the big picture of the sh-t she did versus our time together before the affair. It was daunting. It f'ng sucked moose balls.

However, we had made a decision to reconcile. 

The one thing I told her and I think she's finally gotten it through her dam head, is this: It ain't about WHAT she did. It's the LYING about it. The concealing. Even when it wasn't malicious concealment it was still f'ng wrong. Period.

We just got back from our MC session. It went well. Well enough that we are now on every 2 weeks.

It ain't easy. Not in the least f'ng bit.


EDIT: Click on my name and look under "statistics" and then "threads started". You'll see my story. It ain't pretty.


----------



## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> I processed it. I looked at the big picture of the sh-t she did versus our time together before the affair. It was daunting. It f'ng sucked moose balls.
> 
> However, we had made a decision to reconcile.
> 
> The one thing I told her and I think she's finally gotten it through her dam head, is this: It ain't about WHAT she did. *It's the LYING about it. The concealing. Even when it wasn't malicious concealment it was still f'ng wrong. Period.*
> 
> We just got back from our MC session. It went well. Well enough that we are now on every 2 weeks.
> 
> It ain't easy. Not in the least f'ng bit.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Click on my name and look under "statistics" and then "threads started". You'll see my story. It ain't pretty.


That is almost the worst part to me. She had his name listed in her phone under another name, a womans name at that. And said that she had changed it around a few times I guess. So she spent a lot of time trying to hide it, that makes it hurt so much more.

f'in moose balls indeed sir, thanks for the smile. The first in days.


----------



## SomedayDig

Yep. Regret had the xOM listed with a chick's name, too. Like I said...it's a f'ng script they ALL follow.


----------



## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> Yep. Regret had the xOM listed with a chick's name, too. Like I said...it's a f'ng script they ALL follow.


I just read your story man, you seem like a good man. Thanks for the time you've given me.


----------



## Will_Kane

Well, if she's following the script, then a kiss = at least oral sex, one time = at least three times.

OP, still think it was only one kiss?


----------



## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> Yep. Regret had the xOM listed with a chick's name, too. Like I said...it's a f'ng script they ALL follow.


Is there an outline for this script, lol

Seems like it would help me get through all this crap.


----------



## Will_Kane

t666a4 said:


> Is there an outline for this script, lol
> 
> Seems like it would help me get through all this crap.


Think bad TV movie. Everyone here in the audience can see the bad guy (the cheater) being very devious and plotting to get over on the good guy (the betrayed), we're all screaming at the TV set to the good guy, "don't fall for the bad guy's lies", but the good guy never can see it until it's too late.

Really, there are a few scripts, they all involve lies. That is the cheater's stock and trade. Lying is the very essence of cheating.

In your case, the toxic friend is going through a horrible divorce and rediscovering the joys of being single and free, able to stay out late, meet different guys, accountable to no one, but she needs a partner in crime, it's no fun hitting the singles bars and hooking up with guys by yourself. Toxic friend
is encouraging your wife to do the same. Your wife, who is bored with her routine, does not need too much encouraging. Your wife is all in with that idea.

So they go out, toxic friend and your wife hooking up with two guys who likely are there together. Now, the thing is, the real fun for your wife is the shared adventure with her toxic friend, much more so than the actual hooking up with the guy. Toxic friend and your wife spur each other on, you go girl, hit that thing. They split up at some point, each with their own guy, to hook up, then they reunite later to share their adventure. "His thing was so big" ha ha ha; he said this, he did this, OMG I thought this, etc., etc., etc. They are like teenagers all over again, except they have a lot more sexual experience and are not ever going to take it slow.

By the way, lying to you is part of the fun. I'm sure that also is part of the shared adventure between your wife and her toxic friend, talking, laughing and scheming on how to keep up their affairs, just like teenagers might scheme how to stay out late and sneak in after curfew. Congratulations, you are now the not-so-proud father of a rebellious teenage girl.

The secrecy is very exciting. If you had the balls to expose the whole thing, blow it up on other man and expose to his wife, expose to her parents, your parents, it wouldn't seem so exciting any more.

Women in general are much more intuitive about feelings than men, so I can almost guarantee you that your wife knows exactly what would be a deal-breaker for you and as she is talking to you she can read your emotions. So she is trickling out the truth to you, giving you more and more, realizing that *it doesn't make sense*, but hoping you believe it. Instead of filing for divorce over her story that doesn't make sense, you just walk away, then question again the next day, when she lets slip another piece of the puzzle, that still doesn't make sense, you let it go again, then bring it up again the next day, and on and on it goes.

Look at her story. It doesn't make any sense: She pushed him away after a kiss, then texted him like a madwoman all week long after that and sent him tons of nude pics. Why stop at a kiss, then send nude pics all week long? Most likely they had sex in the car and were looking forward to more in the near future, or were having sex at her place of work. _"Finally I get out of her that some guy was trying to sleep with her. She swears up and down that she didn't, so we keep going, and I get out of her that two Saturdays ago she made out with him, but finally pushed him off of her and said she can't. Last week, apparently though, she has been texting the living **** out of him. Including lots of nude pictures. I looked on our cell phone bill online, and saw tons of text messages to his number, and a lot more pictures than she said she sent him."_

There has never been a cheater in the existence of the world to my knowledge that has told the truth right off the bat, even when they confessed out of guilt alone. For some reason unbeknownst to loyal spouses, cheaters simply are not capable of this. However, it sounds that you are getting more trickle truth than most, which means that your wife is not all that remorseful, definitely not too afraid that you will leave her. She confers daily with toxic friend on the best course of action and she is emboldened by toxic friend, who now is divorced and all has worked out OK and who is telling your wife, don't worry about him, you'll be OK, you and me will have great times together, etc.

Their motto is lie, lie, lie, deny, deny, deny. I kid you not, there is a cheater's support web site, and this is the type of stuff they post there.

There are other scripts, some involve cheaters who feel they truly are "in love" with their affair partners, some who were done with the marriage before the cheating even started, but each one is pretty predictable.

They always minimize and downplay how long the affair lasted, when it started, how many times they met up, how many texts they sent, what was said, what physical acts occurred and how many times, when it ended, and when was last contact. They mostly all say it meant nothing to them, they did it for the attention, you didn't give them enough attention or you gave them too much attention or whatever other thing they can think of to try to blame you for it.

I could go on and on much longer than this, but you get the idea.

Your wife had sex with the guy. Maybe more than once, she definitely was planning on doing it again. Toxic friend was on the sideline cheerleading. Maybe even facilitating communication and hook-ups at their place of business. Your wife does not need her phone to contact other man now, she can do so at work encouraged by toxic friend. Other man can come to the job site and have sex with your wife under the approving eye of toxic friend.

If you want to save your marriage, no more nights out alone without you, no more contact with toxic friend, no more contact with other man, full transparency with communication devices, accounts, passwords, no deleting anything.

Sorry for the length, but I'm trying to get you to see the truth, I'm screaming at the TV, but the character on the screen in the bad TV movie can't hear me.


----------



## Cdelta02

t666a4 said:


> I am not sure how to track down the OM's wife... any suggestions?
> I know where he works, but that is it.


Find out his car. Follow him home. Then you can look up the address and phone number associated. Calling her is easy!

Or you could use Google or 411 dot com or switchboard dot com or whitepages dot com and save on the gas.


----------



## Machiavelli

OP, your wife was banging this guy for a while, not just 2 weeks. With cheaters, "a kiss" = oral, and "making out" means she f*cked the s*** out of him. All this leads to repeated crack-like highs that are very addicting. When women bang new guys they get a huge release of norepinephrine, dopamine, PEA, testosterone, adrenalin, etc etc. They are raving lunatics for that for months after doing a new guy. They never use rubbers either, because semen is loaded with mood-elevating chemistry that is absorbed vaginally and sublingually. Your wife is addicted to strange c*ck and if TF has been riding the c*ck carousel during a divorce with your wife as wingman, well, they aren't the only ones getting screwed.

Since she was already deleting texts before you knew anything was going on, she's either got cheating experience, is being coached by toxic friend, or is on one of the cheater boards getting advice on how to manage you. 

You say TF has been going through a divorce for the last 2 years? Why is she getting a divorce? I probably know the real reason, no matter what she says. 

To sum up the sitch, I think your wife has been at this as long as she's been under the influence of her TF and you're seeing this:










Now what to do about it? Here are a few questions, the answers of which will help determine which steps must be taken:

How many kids do you guys have?

Do women hit on you?

Are you overweight?

What kind of motorcycle do you ride?

Who makes more, you or WW?

How many hours a week do you waste playing WOW?

In the meantime, no more GNO for your WW. If she goes out, it's with you. Get tested for the clap. She gets tested, too. Polygraph. You think that's laughable, put she won't laugh when you tell her it's scheduled.


----------



## t666a4

Machiavelli said:


> OP, your wife was banging this guy for a while, not just 2 weeks. With cheaters, "a kiss" = oral, and "making out" means she f*cked the s*** out of him. All this leads to repeated crack-like highs that are very addicting. When women bang new guys they get a huge release of norepinephrine, dopamine, PEA, testosterone, adrenalin, etc etc. They are raving lunatics for that for months after doing a new guy. They never use rubbers either, because semen is loaded with mood-elevating chemistry that is absorbed vaginally and sublingually. Your wife is addicted to strange c*ck and if TF has been riding the c*ck carousel during a divorce with your wife as wingman, well, they aren't the only ones getting screwed.
> 
> Since she was already deleting texts before you knew anything was going on, she's either got cheating experience, is being coached by toxic friend, or is on one of the cheater boards getting advice on how to manage you.
> 
> You say TF has been going through a divorce for the last 2 years? Why is she getting a divorce? I probably know the real reason, no matter what she says.
> 
> To sum up the sitch, I think your wife has been at this as long as she's been under the influence of her TF and you're seeing this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now what to do about it? Here are a few questions, the answers of which will help determine which steps must be taken:
> 
> How many kids do you guys have?
> 
> Do women hit on you?
> 
> Are you overweight?
> 
> What kind of motorcycle do you ride?
> 
> Who makes more, you or WW?
> 
> How many hours a week do you waste playing WOW?
> 
> In the meantime, no more GNO for your WW. If she goes out, it's with you. Get tested for the clap. She gets tested, too. Polygraph. You think that's laughable, put she won't laugh when you tell her it's scheduled.



I dont know, I want to believe it didn't happen. I looked on Verizon online, and saw no contact with his number from any time previous to two saturdays ago.

I just dont know.

Someone on reddit I think, mentioned having her do a timeline? Is this something I should make her do?


----------



## tom67

t666a4 said:


> I dont know, I want to believe it didn't happen. I looked on Verizon online, and saw no contact with his number from any time previous to two saturdays ago.
> 
> I just dont know.
> 
> Someone on reddit I think, mentioned having her do a timeline? Is this something I should make her do?


Listen to Mach he knows quite well of what he speaks and stay strong!


----------



## jim123

tom67 said:


> Listen to Mach he knows quite well of what he speaks and stay strong!


Act quick and strong. If you read the threads where the BS has done well, they have always taken control. You have enough. See a lawyer. Ask her to move out. Do not play around. 

You show someone you love them when you do not let them be with someone else. The path to D and path to R are the same. You have to be the one driving.


----------



## Will_Kane

t666a4 said:


> I dont know, I want to believe it didn't happen. I looked on Verizon online, and saw no contact with his number from any time previous to two saturdays ago.
> 
> I just dont know.
> 
> Someone on reddit I think, mentioned having her do a timeline? Is this something I should make her do?


The timeline is an excellent idea. Make her put in writing everything that happened and when. It pins her down to a written version of events. Let her start with the first time she ever heard of this guy, how contact started, what attracted her, what they did, specifically, how many times, when each contact was, what content of each was, what she was thinking while she did it, and when it ended.

Why are you so fixated on her Verizon? She may have met him two weeks ago, she may not have, maybe she knew the guy through some other way and only communicated to him prior to this on work phones, then got carried away and brought it to her personal phone. 

She cheated and then lied to you every step of the way, is still trickling out truth after painful truth, yet you are so eager to believe her. That is part of the betrayed spouse's script. If you thought she was honest before, divest yourself of that nonsense quick. An alien being has taken over your wife's body. This alien is a liar. Treat her as if you never met her before and just caught her shoplifting. Look at her and listen to her from that point of view. In other words, be very skeptical. She has a vested interest in lying to save her own butt.


----------



## tom67

Will_Kane said:


> The timeline is an excellent idea. Make her put in writing everything that happened and when. It pins her down to a written version of events. Let her start with the first time she ever heard of this guy, how contact started, what attracted her, what they did, specifically, how many times, when each contact was, what content of each was, what she was thinking while she did it, and when it ended.
> 
> Why are you so fixated on her Verizon? She may have met him two weeks ago, she may not have, maybe she knew the guy through some other way and only communicated to him prior to this on work phones, then got carried away and brought it to her personal phone.
> 
> She cheated and then lied to you every step of the way, is still trickling out truth after painful truth, yet you are so eager to believe her. That is part of the betrayed spouse's script. If you thought she was honest before, divest yourself of that nonsense quick. An alien being has taken over your wife's body. This alien is a liar. Treat her as if you never met her before and just caught her shoplifting. Look at her and listen to her from that point of view. In other words, be very skeptical. She has a vested interest in lying to save her own butt.


She ma be using toxic friends phone


----------



## Machiavelli

t666a4 said:


> *I dont know, I want to believe it didn't happen.* I looked on Verizon online, and saw no contact with his number from any time previous to two saturdays ago.
> 
> I just dont know.


Of course, there are always exceptions, your wife may be the one. It's possible, just like winning the powerball. But you've been letting her run wild on GNOs for how long? Seriously, girls will be girls and only the bad rubs off on each other when they run together. Your attitude of reminds me of this song, listen closely to the lyrics:
ROD STEWART - Still I look to find a reason... - YouTube



t666a4 said:


> Someone on reddit I think, mentioned having her do a timeline? Is this something I should make her do?


Yes, it's a fine idea. Then you can revise that over the coming weeks as she continues to trickle truth you to death. Seriously, do the timeline. It can be a great investigative tool. Google up on investigative techniques and body language before your next interrogation. 

Also, schedule the poly.

Now, I've got a feeling you've been violating the 16 Commandments in your female relationships. Read up and see. Also, check to see where you are on the Male Hierarchy. Females sexually respond to limbic cues indicating "higher value" males, and yes, you can do some things to up your sex rank. It sounds like your's is slipping.

And answer those questions I posed.


----------



## Jonesey

OP

Right know you are quite lycky. You have two of the BiG gun' s

Here invalvlved here and giving you advice. I'm of course
Refering to Machiavelli and a Will Kane. Please listen to what
What these two are saying. Dont be put of when Mac

Are saying things lik this

*When women bang new guys they get a huge release of norepinephrine, dopamine, PEA, testosterone, adrenalin, etc etc. They are raving lunatics for that for months after doing a new guy. They never use rubbers either, because semen is loaded with mood-elevating chemistry that is absorbed vaginally and sublinguall*


I know how it all sounds. It would take to long at least fo me to explain it for you..Trust him on it...


I would pnly like to ad one thing.

Dont ever and i really mean EVER underestemate what newley
Divorced women friend power of influence over ther female friend. They,Can and most often even will talk/influence in the other friend
To do the most crazy things,they never otherwise would dream of going alone with. Never mind even thinking about. All becuse the need a wingman..its true. I could of course drag up more things
But i think this should at least expein in a nutshell what i mean..


And one more thing.. Dont get so stuck on the Verazon
She could easy have managed to get her self a burner phone(look in to that) or her as at least ex friend ,as she should be by now..

Can send and recive messages with out you knowing it..

There are so many ways to stay in tuch.especially if you have IPhone,IPad with out you knowing.. Does she have any Apple overpriced and newley created religion phone or pad?


----------



## WyshIknew

Will_Kane said:


> Think bad TV movie. Everyone here in the audience can see the bad guy (the cheater) being very devious and plotting to get over on the good guy (the betrayed), we're all screaming at the TV set to the good guy, "don't fall for the bad guy's lies", but the good guy never can see it until it's too late.
> 
> Really, there are a few scripts, they all involve lies. That is the cheater's stock and trade. Lying is the very essence of cheating.
> 
> In your case, the toxic friend is going through a horrible divorce and rediscovering the joys of being single and free, able to stay out late, meet different guys, accountable to no one, but she needs a partner in crime, it's no fun hitting the singles bars and hooking up with guys by yourself. Toxic friend
> is encouraging your wife to do the same. Your wife, who is bored with her routine, does not need too much encouraging. Your wife is all in with that idea.
> 
> So they go out, toxic friend and your wife hooking up with two guys who likely are there together. Now, the thing is, the real fun for your wife is the shared adventure with her toxic friend, much more so than the actual hooking up with the guy. Toxic friend and your wife spur each other on, you go girl, hit that thing. They split up at some point, each with their own guy, to hook up, then they reunite later to share their adventure. "His thing was so big" ha ha ha; he said this, he did this, OMG I thought this, etc., etc., etc. They are like teenagers all over again, except they have a lot more sexual experience and are not ever going to take it slow.
> 
> By the way, lying to you is part of the fun. I'm sure that also is part of the shared adventure between your wife and her toxic friend, talking, laughing and scheming on how to keep up their affairs, just like teenagers might scheme how to stay out late and sneak in after curfew. Congratulations, you are now the not-so-proud father of a rebellious teenage girl.
> 
> The secrecy is very exciting. If you had the balls to expose the whole thing, blow it up on other man and expose to his wife, expose to her parents, your parents, it wouldn't seem so exciting any more.
> 
> Women in general are much more intuitive about feelings than men, so I can almost guarantee you that your wife knows exactly what would be a deal-breaker for you and as she is talking to you she can read your emotions. So she is trickling out the truth to you, giving you more and more, realizing that *it doesn't make sense*, but hoping you believe it. Instead of filing for divorce over her story that doesn't make sense, you just walk away, then question again the next day, when she lets slip another piece of the puzzle, that still doesn't make sense, you let it go again, then bring it up again the next day, and on and on it goes.
> 
> Look at her story. It doesn't make any sense: She pushed him away after a kiss, then texted him like a madwoman all week long after that and sent him tons of nude pics. Why stop at a kiss, then send nude pics all week long? Most likely they had sex in the car and were looking forward to more in the near future, or were having sex at her place of work. _"Finally I get out of her that some guy was trying to sleep with her. She swears up and down that she didn't, so we keep going, and I get out of her that two Saturdays ago she made out with him, but finally pushed him off of her and said she can't. Last week, apparently though, she has been texting the living **** out of him. Including lots of nude pictures. I looked on our cell phone bill online, and saw tons of text messages to his number, and a lot more pictures than she said she sent him."_
> 
> There has never been a cheater in the existence of the world to my knowledge that has told the truth right off the bat, even when they confessed out of guilt alone. For some reason unbeknownst to loyal spouses, cheaters simply are not capable of this. However, it sounds that you are getting more trickle truth than most, which means that your wife is not all that remorseful, definitely not too afraid that you will leave her. She confers daily with toxic friend on the best course of action and she is emboldened by toxic friend, who now is divorced and all has worked out OK and who is telling your wife, don't worry about him, you'll be OK, you and me will have great times together, etc.
> 
> Their motto is lie, lie, lie, deny, deny, deny. I kid you not, there is a cheater's support web site, and this is the type of stuff they post there.
> 
> There are other scripts, some involve cheaters who feel they truly are "in love" with their affair partners, some who were done with the marriage before the cheating even started, but each one is pretty predictable.
> 
> They always minimize and downplay how long the affair lasted, when it started, how many times they met up, how many texts they sent, what was said, what physical acts occurred and how many times, when it ended, and when was last contact. They mostly all say it meant nothing to them, they did it for the attention, you didn't give them enough attention or you gave them too much attention or whatever other thing they can think of to try to blame you for it.
> 
> I could go on and on much longer than this, but you get the idea.
> 
> Your wife had sex with the guy. Maybe more than once, she definitely was planning on doing it again. Toxic friend was on the sideline cheerleading. Maybe even facilitating communication and hook-ups at their place of business. Your wife does not need her phone to contact other man now, she can do so at work encouraged by toxic friend. Other man can come to the job site and have sex with your wife under the approving eye of toxic friend.
> 
> If you want to save your marriage, no more nights out alone without you, no more contact with toxic friend, no more contact with other man, full transparency with communication devices, accounts, passwords, no deleting anything.
> 
> Sorry for the length, but I'm trying to get you to see the truth, I'm screaming at the TV, but the character on the screen in the bad TV movie can't hear me.


:iagree:

This is absolute gold. I don't know how many times I have been sat in front of the screen reading someones story and saying "she/he is lying, why can't you see that!" It can actually get quite frustrating.

It can help to read some of the other threads, you will find yourself wondering why some of the other posters can't see the truth, and you suddenly realise that you are exactly the same as the other posters.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Mach is right. Look, no one wants to believe their wife could or would do this. Read DevastastedDad's thread, Dr. Mathias' thread - they believed their wives too.

My husband used to brag to his coworkers who had cheating wives that I would never ever do that to him. 

I can also tell you what will happen if you disregard the advice these guys are giving you. Your wife will continue - maybe not with this guy - she will just get smarter and hide it better. Then, there will likely be 'urinary tract infections', possibly a surprise pregnancy, and more fun like that. 

When I first came to this board, I thought this stuff was crazy but after seeing the pattern over and over and over, I can tell you it IS for real.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

if it hasn't been mentioned yet...

get a VAR and install it under the seat of her car, if she is still talking to him via a burner phone or other means you can't verify then you will usually uncover it through a VAR

also get keylogger installed on the computer in case she tries to communicate online that way


any luck getting a hold of OMW?

what phone does she have btw?


----------



## river rat

t666a4 said:


> God, didn't think about the STDs, but everyone has been mentioning it. We've had sex a couple times since two saturdays ago.
> 
> I dont think she is lying about not sleeping with him. But I'm not sure, I cant really believe a damn thing she says. A polygraph sounds... I dont know, kind of hilarious, but only in the laugh because it keeps me sane way.
> 
> I think I agree on the friend, except its her boss...
> 
> Do I just limit them from hanging out without me, or do I make it so she never hangs out with that friend ever agin.
> 
> My wife doesnt have very many friends... I dont know.


 Man, I'm really sorry that you're in this mess. I know that the suggestions from a lot of the folks here will seem harsh and jaded to you, but if you read thru the posts on this site, you will find that they are right so much of the time. It is a normal defensive mechanism for the betrayer to minimize their acts, and to lie to protect themselves. The polygraph may be the only way to get her to reveal the truth. If she balks at the suggestion that she take one, you'll know that she is hiding more. And, as far as the friend goes, she is an enabler to the A. I'd get rid of her permanently.


----------



## Shaggy

You're also assuming that this guy is the first one. If the friend and her have been going out for a while, and the friend is about meeting guys, what do you think your wife is doing while the GF is flirting, kissing,etc? Sitting there texting you? Sitting there watching the ice melt in her drink?

No - she's with the friend of the guy the GF is hooking up with. And that guy's friend isn't talking to her about the weather.


----------



## iheartlife

t666a4:
take a look at this forum. There are 92 pages of posts in Coping with Infidelity. There are 40+ threads per page. That's well over 3500 threads.

Now, a few people post multiple threads. But the vast majority of these represent people, just like you. So let's knock some off that number. That's a boatload of people who have been in your shoes.

When river rat makes the comment about responders being jaded, what he means is that...how do I put this kindly. Your situation is horrible for you, but it is not particularly surprising or remarkable compared to the stories of others. This is important for you to know. Your pain is very important and the people here GET what you are going through. So I am not minimizing that.

But you seem, I don't know what. Dubious? Baffled? by the advice. 

You are still in deep denial about what is right in front of you.

The knowledge that these other people are giving you was extremely hard earned. Not only did many of them personally suffer through infidelity (of various kinds); they have also taken the trouble to notice PATTERNS OF BEHAVIOR from the hundreds of other people that have posted their sad stories. 

You have said yourself that you can't believe a word your wife says now. THAT IS THE ONLY THING YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN RIGHT NOW. So we have to read her actions. We are talking statistics. Yes, maybe your wife is 1 in 100, but probably more like 1 in 10,000 given her age, culture, and situation in life. You gonna bet an STD test on that statistic?

It's painful for me personally to watch you. She's betrayed your trust, but you want to cling to that last shred of belief that she isn't a liar. I only have one thing to say in response to that--some people have to learn the hard way.


----------



## t666a4

You guys are like ****ing magicians.

I talked to her again yesterday afternoon. Some more things came out about two saturdays ago. She still swears up and down that she didn't have sex, or oral. But she did admit that he took his junk out and she had hands on I guess.

I also found out that, this was all going on while her friend was getting her tattoo. He kept getting her to go into the other room, and that is when this stuff happened. But she kept stopping it and going back into the room where her friend was (lie?)

I called her friend, 99% sure before they had not collaborated any story. She told me what she saw, and it lined up pretty well. Though she did reveal a few things my wife left out. She said, that she went into the room where they were a few times, and asked what they were doing, which stopped what was going on. Only temporarily though I guess, since they kept ending up in the other room.

It hurt really bad.... Now I am really understanding everything I am reading here, it was DDay all over again.

Then.... this morning I told her it felt like she got to the top of the ladder without taking any steps (seemed like a good analopgy.)

It then came out that something happened at her birthday Vegas trip a few months back.

Yeah.

DDay part 6.

She was apparently, in the pool, drunk (I am starting to see a pattern here.) And some random guy (maybe not so random?) and her kissed in the pool, for a few minutes. But nothing else happened (supposedly.) 

Then the next day, all her friends and her went out for dinner at some bar there, ended up hanging out with a group of guys from Canada or something. After everyone was leaving the bar, her and this guy walked the strip. She said they kissed a lot of times up and down the street. He tried to get her to come back to his hotel room, but she didn't. Supposedly nothing else happened there.

She said there was no contact with either of those guys since.

She also said there was no other incidents, including at her GNO's with her friend or others.

I dont know what the fruck to believe. I am almost at the point where I just cant deal with it. I dont want another DDay, but she says she is telling me everythign (she has told me everything 10 f*cking times it feels like)

I really am spilling my heart here to you guys, and I appreciate your time and help. I feel like I wouldnt have gotten even this far without it.


----------



## TCSRedhead

The sad thing is that I'm pretty certain you still don't have all of the truth. I'm going to say it again but the only way you're likely to get the truth is to hook her up to a polygraph. 

Write up a list of questions that you want answered - specific and detailed is recommended. Do not show her this list (so she can't prepare her answers/responses).

None of us are magicians, we're simply watching a rerun of a very bad movie. 

Read through some of the other threads on here - you'll see why we're recommending direct and firm action. You don't deserve to be lied to again and again.


----------



## Almostrecovered

go get a STD test now, I suggest you tell your wife to get one as well


----------



## tom67

Now are you going to set up some boundaries with her? Alot of us were in your shoes now that YOU are out of the fog take charge. Schedule a polygraph test then see what new revelations she has.I think the lying is actually worse than the cheating.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Almostrecovered said:


> go get a STD test now, I suggest you tell your wife to get one as well


I second this. If she's admitting to 'kissing' and 'making out', that generally translates into oral sex and penetration. It's like a cheater's script, unfortunately. 

You should both be tested to be sure she didn't bring home any surprises. Be sure you protect yourself now as well.


----------



## t666a4

Oh yeah, I asked her if she would take a polygraph.

It was stated to watch her reaction.

At first she laughed, like she couldnt believe I asked her, and she asked if I was serious.

And I said yes. And she got pretty mad, which makes me think there is more too.

She said something about them not being 100% accurate, what if it reads something wrong.

Then said something about just getting a divorce cause she has told me everything. 

I told her I was just looking for her reaction to me asking that and that I didn't like her reaction at all, and it made me feel 100% she was hiding additional info, but she gave nothing else up.


----------



## Almostrecovered

t666a4 said:


> Then said something about just getting a divorce cause she has told me everything.


this one is the worst to me

she has the audacity to threaten divorce to you when it should be the other way around, I would have responded it was a good idea and you will start looking for a lawyer


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> Oh yeah, I asked her if she would take a polygraph.
> 
> It was stated to watch her reaction.
> 
> At first she laughed, like she couldnt believe I asked her, and she asked if I was serious.
> 
> And I said yes. And she got pretty mad, which makes me think there is more too.
> 
> She said something about them not being 100% accurate, what if it reads something wrong.
> 
> Then said something about just getting a divorce cause she has told me everything.
> 
> I told her I was just looking for her reaction to me asking that and that I didn't like her reaction at all, and it made me feel 100% she was hiding additional info, but she gave nothing else up.


Yup - that was my reaction too when my husband confronted me. I think I wanted to 'scare' him into backing off and not asking any more questions because there was definitely more that hadn't been told. You take all the power out of that threat when you get a copy of divorce papers and ask her to sign. Don't do this as an idle threat, you have to mean it. 

Her reactions are actually proof that there is more, unfortunately.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> Yup - that was my reaction too when my husband confronted me. I think I wanted to 'scare' him into backing off and not asking any more questions because there was definitely more that hadn't been told. You take all the power out of that threat when you get a copy of divorce papers and ask her to sign. Don't do this as an idle threat, you have to mean it.
> 
> Her reactions are actually proof that there is more, unfortunately.


I know it is. And I told her that. And she fought and fought that she had told me everything. And cried probably harder than she had yet this week.


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> I know it is. And I told her that. And she fought and fought that she had told me everything. And cried probably harder than she had yet this week.


Yes, the tears are another weapon sadly. They are real tears but generated from fear because she knows she's lying. 

The real question is what do you plan to do? This ball is in your court. You can choose to sweep it all under the rug and have her do it again or take the advice of the folks here who have lived it. 

A true reconciliation cannot occur without truthful disclosure of everything. After all, how can you forgive something when you don't know what that 'something' is?


----------



## BrockLanders

I'd just say that she has one last chance to provide a real timeline that isn't devoid of any major misdeed on her part. She obviously had sex with the guy, if you're to get past this you need the entire history. Either she is honest or you go to the lawyer.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> Yes, the tears are another weapon sadly. They are real tears but generated from fear because she knows she's lying.
> 
> The real question is what do you plan to do? This ball is in your court. You can choose to sweep it all under the rug and have her do it again or take the advice of the folks here who have lived it.
> 
> A true reconciliation cannot occur without truthful disclosure of everything. After all, how can you forgive something when you don't know what that 'something' is?


She is doing a timeline today.

I told her to put EVERYTHING in there. Even things she hasnt yet told me.

I think I'll do a polygraph... Gotta wait to get paid tthough.

I am also looking into scheduling an STD test.

Thanks.


----------



## tom67

t666a4 said:


> She is doing a timeline today.
> 
> I told her to put EVERYTHING in there. Even things she hasnt yet told me.
> 
> I think I'll do a polygraph... Gotta wait to get paid tthough.
> 
> I am also looking into scheduling an STD test.
> 
> Thanks.


It just sucks when you can't trust someone. If you do r that divorced "friend" has to go like yesterday.


----------



## t666a4

tom67 said:


> It just sucks when you can't trust someone. If you do r that divorced "friend" has to go like yesterday.


What?


----------



## TCSRedhead

If you R (reconcile), the divorced friend has to be cut out of her life. Since that is her boss, she either leaves her job or only has contact with her during work hours.


----------



## Cdelta02

t666a4 said:


> I know it is. And I told her that. And she fought and fought that she had told me everything. And cried probably harder than she had yet this week.


Tell her that if she told you everything, then there is no reason for not going for a polygraph.

If there is a false positive during the test, you can ask more follow ups. Its usually not ask a question and you are done type of situation. Worst case it may cost you more.


----------



## Joebob

Dang this whole thing sucks. Feel for you. In a mess myself but handled way worse. Another story though.


Just would suggest you consider keeping your powder dry on informing people/family or HR. For one thing, reconciliation is much more difficult if everything is out in the open. Some people may need to know but keep it a small circle for now.

As far as HR, leverage is good thing. It can come in handy later. Let your divorce lawyer handle getting the phone records. Your best bet is to keep the OMH fat and happy with plenty of cash for now. Your Wife needs to keep her job for now as well. Its just being practical.

My final point is to consider the effect on your own self esteem and future. When this sort of happened to me, I didnt want anyone to know because it was personal and made me feel ashamed and embarassed. Mainly I think because I am a super private person and I hated friends or relatives knowing this about my life. 
Put the screws to them in steps, not all at once. You cant put that genie back in the bottle, and its very hard to reconcile without everyone else in the world knowing what happened.

If you continue on the divorce path, listen to your divorce lawyer. Do not fire away in anger right now. Death by a thousand cuts is much more effective...


----------



## Shaggy

So far you wife has admitted that she has numerous times, gotten drunk, made out with random guys that hit on her, allows them to pull out their junk and she willingly fondles their junk.

Not one time, but numerous times.

Do she's a serial cheater, and a hypocrite because ill bet if you did it once with some chick, you'd be out of the house.

But wait not only doesn't she think you will be divorcing her for her accepting other men's tongues in her mouth, their hands on her privates, and her hands on their junk SHE actually has the audacity to question you wanting a polygraph and to pull the D card on you.

She's now a caught and admitted cheater and instead of doing anything and everything she can to show her remorse and to earn a chance to R, she gets defensive and plays the ...you don't trust me! Defense?

Sorry, but her actions say there has been more and in the past that you've never heard about including full on sex.

She must realize her days of going out without you and trips with the girls are forever over if the marriage actually survives.

The question to you is why would you stay with a serial cheater who lets complete strangers make out with her like she does? Why would you want to be with someone who has no love or respect for you and basically gives it up trivially easily to random men? I hate to call names but your wife's behavior is that of a slvt


----------



## t666a4

Joebob said:


> Dang this whole thing sucks. Feel for you. In a mess myself but handled way worse. Another story though.
> 
> 
> Just would suggest you consider keeping your powder dry on informing people/family or HR. For one thing, reconciliation is much more difficult if everything is out in the open. Some people may need to know but keep it a small circle for now.
> 
> As far as HR, leverage is good thing. It can come in handy later. Let your divorce lawyer handle getting the phone records. Your best bet is to keep the OMH fat and happy with plenty of cash for now. Your Wife needs to keep her job for now as well. Its just being practical.
> 
> My final point is to consider the effect on your own self esteem and future. When this sort of happened to me, I didnt want anyone to know because it was personal and made me feel ashamed and embarassed. Mainly I think because I am a super private person and I hated friends or relatives knowing this about my life.
> Put the screws to them in steps, not all at once. You cant put that genie back in the bottle, and its very hard to reconcile without everyone else in the world knowing what happened.
> 
> If you continue on the divorce path, listen to your divorce lawyer. Do not fire away in anger right now. Death by a thousand cuts is much more effective...


Thanks for the advice.

I am a pretty private person as well. I dont even have a facebook account or twitter or anything, cause, for one I dont care to post what I'm doing for others to read, and two, I'm just not a nosey person. It seems like that is what fb and twitter are for, snooping and showing off.

I told her we have to tell her Mom. I think a lot of her problems probably come from her Dad, so I'm not sure if we need to tell him, or definitely not tell him. Her parents are divorced and both remarried. They are all great people. Not sure about getting the step parents involved though.

I'm not sure about telling my mom either. But I'm not sure what to do.

About friends, no clue what to do.

I read one thing on here, that you reveal it to every living soul. But, I don't see how that would help? I dont know though.


----------



## t666a4

Shaggy said:


> So far you wife has admitted that she has numerous times, gotten drunk, made out with random guys that hit on her, allows them to pull out their junk and she willingly fondles their junk.
> 
> Not one time, but numerous times.
> 
> Do she's a serial cheater, and a hypocrite because ill bet if you did it once with some chick, you'd be out of the house.
> 
> But wait not only doesn't she think you will be divorcing her for her accepting other men's tongues in her mouth, their hands on her privates, and her hands on their junk SHE actually has the audacity to question you wanting a polygraph and to pull the D card on you.
> 
> She's now a caught and admitted cheater and instead of doing anything and everything she can to show her remorse and to earn a chance to R, she gets defensive and plays the ...you don't trust me! Defense?
> 
> Sorry, but her actions say there has been more and in the past that you've never heard about including full on sex.
> 
> She must realize her days of going out without you and trips with the girls are forever over if the marriage actually survives.
> 
> The question to you is why would you stay with a serial cheater who lets complete strangers make out with her like she does? Why would you want to be with someone who has no love or respect for you and basically gives it up trivially easily to random men? I hate to call names but your wife's behavior is that of a slvt


I think you are right about pretty much everything. Even if she never slept with any of the guys, she did do enough, far too much for me to even handle.

I'm not sure if its worth working through or not. I'm feeling just... over it right now. I'm so physically and emotionally drained. I havent eaten or slept in days.


----------



## TCSRedhead

The reason for exposure (opinions on who to tell that vary) is to prevent her from running around painting the picture of her as a victim and you as the bad guy.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> The reason for exposure (opinions on who to tell that vary) is to prevent her from running around painting the picture of her as a victim and you as the bad guy.


I guess that sounds like it is reserved if I choose D over R

(i'm doing it, I'm using the acronyms!!!  )


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> I think you are right about pretty much everything. Even if she never slept with any of the guys, she did do enough, far too much for me to even handle.
> 
> I'm not sure if its worth working through or not. I'm feeling just... over it right now. I'm so physically and emotionally drained. I havent eaten or slept in days.


You won't know what you do or don't want long-term for a while. 

In the meantime, you need to pull back and take care of yourself. Don't give her even more power over you by seeing you fall apart. She needs to see that you are a strong man, worthy of any woman's love and commitment. Even if you do decide to divorce, you want to be in good shape.

So, eat healthy and go to the gym. Getting a good workout will help you sort out all these thoughts. Give yourself some distance from her to pull it together.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> You won't know what you do or don't want long-term for a while.
> 
> In the meantime, you need to pull back and take care of yourself. Don't give her even more power over you by seeing you fall apart. She needs to see that you are a strong man, worthy of any woman's love and commitment. Even if you do decide to divorce, you want to be in good shape.
> 
> So, eat healthy and go to the gym. Getting a good workout will help you sort out all these thoughts. Give yourself some distance from her to pull it together.


Thank you.


----------



## the guy

There are a couple of reason to expose the affair to certain poeple.
1) to make the affair as uncomfortable and inconvienent to continue.
2) haveing and extra set of eyes on the wayward to confirm any commitment the wayward makes to the betrayed.
3) it prevents the wayward from rewriting history and doing the damage control to prevent othere from know the truth.


Thats just some and each case has its reason to expose and not expose. Often the variable is if the affair is over or if the affair is still going on.

You will hear alot about the "affair fog" often the exposer tactic is to pull the wife out of the fog and back to her family.

In some case the affair is an exit affair and in this case the exposer prevent the betrayed from looking like a bad guy and set the record straight for why the marriage is over.

No one said this cheating crap was easy, it can be very complicated to navigate thru.


----------



## t666a4

the guy said:


> There are a couple of reason to expose the affair to certain poeple.
> 1) to make the affair as uncomfortable and inconvienent to continue.
> 2) haveing and extra set of eyes on the betrayed to confirm any commitment the wayward makes to the betrayed.
> 3) it prevents the wayward from rewriting history and doing the damage control to prevent othere from know the truth.
> 
> 
> Thats just some and each case has its reason to expose and not expose. Often the variable is if the affair is over or if the affair is still going on.
> 
> You will hear alot about the "affair fog" often the exposer tactic is to pull the wife out of the fog and back to her family.
> 
> In some case the affair is an exit affair and in this case the exposer prevent the betrayed from looking like a bad guy and set the record straight for why the marriage is over.
> 
> No one said this cheating crap was easy, it can be very complicated to navigate thru.


Crap is a good word. Sh!t creek works as well.


----------



## Shaggy

Exposure also tests your wife's real remorse and commitment to you if you want to R. It makes her own up to her choices to betray you and the marriage. 

Notice the difference in his Petreaus and his mistress Broadwell are treated in the press.

Petreaus stood up, took responsibility for his choice to betray and took his punishment by resigning.

Broadwell hid behind closed doors and has hired a Washington PR firm to spin her story.

I'll ask you which one is showing remorse ?

So exposing to friends and family is very important.


----------



## Toffer

t,

Sorry you're here. Been following this thread but staying on the sidelines.

I have to agree with Shaggy on this one. This is somerthing she's been doing for years and she's just now getting caught with her hands in the cookie jar. 

This is ALOT of betrayal to deal with. One instance would be bad enough but it seems as soon as she is out of your sight, at least her mouth and hands open wide.

I wouldn't even consider R without a Poly at this point. If money is an issue, you should go to the Dr first for the STD panel beefore spending it on the poly. That can follow whenever


----------



## TCSRedhead

Oh and for your sake, don't have unprotected sex with her. 

It's very likely that she'll be throwing herself at you sexually to 'prove' her love and devotion. She may even stop taking birth control to entrap you, etc.


----------



## t666a4

Well... she told her Mom. But I wasn't there for it. I told her that we needed to tell her Mom, I implied that I wanted to be involved in it though.

So I guess she is trying to take control again, by telling her Mom without me there, or was it something I should have let her do alone. I am hoping her Mom tells her stepdad, cause I think I can talk to him about it. Their marriage had problems, and they got separated a few years ago, but are back together, and supposedly everything is great, but I'm just not sure.

I think I'm going to step back a bit.

I guess I'll go get a gym membership and go lift some weights tonight, that always used to help with problems years ago.


----------



## TDSC60

t666a4 said:


> Well... she told her Mom. But I wasn't there for it. I told her that we needed to tell her Mom, I implied that I wanted to be involved in it though.
> 
> So I guess she is trying to take control again, by telling her Mom without me there, or was it something I should have let her do alone. I am hoping her Mom tells her stepdad, cause I think I can talk to him about it. Their marriage had problems, and they got separated a few years ago, but are back together, and supposedly everything is great, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> I think I'm going to step back a bit.
> 
> I guess I'll go get a gym membership and go lift some weights tonight, that always used to help with problems years ago.


Yeah, she is trying to control the situation and you really have no idea what she said to Mom, do you? It could have been as simple as "We are having problems in our marriage".

Talk to Stepdad and Mom yourself if you can.

Other have said it. She is a serial cheater. She is totally open to advances from random strangers and if you think she stops at making out and heavy petting you are mistaken. She craves the attention of other men. She puts herself out there and intentionally draws them in. Sex is the price this type of woman pays for the attention they crave.

Stay strong. Take some time by yourself if you can. Let the initial shock wear off a little then decide what you want to do.


----------



## warlock07

t666a4 said:


> I know it is. And I told her that. And she fought and fought that she had told me everything. And cried probably harder than she had yet this week.


The ultimate woman weapon to get out of sticky situation. Cry !! (No sexism intended, although it is)


----------



## warlock07

t666a4 said:


> She is doing a timeline today.
> 
> I told her to put EVERYTHING in there. Even things she hasnt yet told me.
> 
> I think I'll do a polygraph... Gotta wait to get paid tthough.
> 
> I am also looking into scheduling an STD test.
> 
> Thanks.


Ask her friend in the mean time to verify the stories(if she was present then too)..

To be honest, the impression your wife is giving out is ... A married bar skank getting black out drunk at bars with her troll friend and hooking up with strangers..

Utterly classless. Do you have kids ?


----------



## TCSRedhead

Yup - she's starting the process of turning you in to the bad guy. 

So, next up will be that it's because she's not happy in the marriage because you've done x, y or z. Basically, it's your fault.


----------



## naga75

wow this is the best nail biter i have ever read in my short time at TAM.
some things:
if she knows you dont have proof, she will never divulge the entire truth. unless you are full on in her face i am going to divorce you.
so, if you dont (and i have read the entire thread), FAKE IT.
i can give you instructions or link you to a site that will allow you to read deleted messages from an iphone. its quite tedious, be warned, and it will not show photos but it WILL show texts from text free, kik etc all those cheater apps (thats how i caught my wife in her lies).
you will get a bit more info each time you try to correlate her story, maybe.
my wife told me that we should get a divorce because i was never going to believe her (very early on), hey guess what thats because she was still lying to me.
she tried to blame it on me and i bought it for a little while but that soon gave way and folded.
i told most of our close friends and my sisters, tho not her parents and she got SO MAD about it. why? because she is a cheater.
her girlfriend knew about it the ENTIRE time. this is also a "friend" of mine (thru my wife), her reason for not telling me? "i didnt want to mess up you being so happy after the birth of your daughter" and "who am i to judge"?
is she welcome in my home anymore? nope.
hey listen, it is a script. when i first came here, i thought "BS!!!" (kinda), and as the time goes on there are SO MANY stories and so many WW that have said the same thing as my wife.
listen to your GUT.
and listen to these people.


----------



## SomedayDig

naga75 said:


> my wife told me that we should get a divorce because i was never going to believe her (very early on), hey guess what thats because she was still lying to me.
> she tried to blame it on me and i bought it for a little while but that soon gave way and folded.


^^^^^ This...THIS will happen at some point, brother. It's best to be prepared for it so it doesn't (A) Blindside you and (B) you don't buy into it.

Trust me, man - I hate that some of us are right on this forum. I wish to hell we weren't sometimes. Just know that we're here to help you and not hurt you...even though it's gonna seem like we're rubbing your nose in sh-t, we're actually trying to keep you from stepping in it!


----------



## t666a4

She already has done that... shift the blame, and she said what happens if I never believe her. I dont think she mentioned D at the time.

I was asking why, and she sorta went off, saying this and that. Stupid crap, trying to excuse it is what it sounded like to me.

She gave me the timeline, but she didnt really add anything to it that wasnt spoken about already

This site has helped a lot, I think the first day I was rug sweeping. And when I got mad again and we talked and she trickled more out, I realized then that I should really start listening to this site.

And everything else that has said would happen has happened so far. I'm just waiting I guess. I want the whole truth. I figure if I tell her I want a D at this point, she wont share any more information.

And maybe if I really do want a D, then I can move on and just say f*ck it and not care to get teh story, that I will likely never get again.

Thanks everyone

I will continue updating this.


----------



## t666a4

To answer another question above, yes we have 2 kids. Both in elementry school.


----------



## Shaggy

Keep this in mind - your silence at the right times is more of an effective tool to get to her than any words you could possibly say.

For instance when she says I've told you everything, don't debate it. Go silent and walk away.


----------



## t666a4

Shaggy said:


> Keep this in mind - your silence at the right times is more of an effective tool to get to her than any words you could possibly say.
> 
> For instance when she says I've told you everything, don't debate it. Go silent and walk away.


Yeah, I think I was heading that way anyways.


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> To answer another question above, yes we have 2 kids. Both in elementry school.


Ugh - even worse. I'm so sorry. Can you ask her to leave and go stay with her mom until you get the full story from her? 

It might serve two purposes:

1. Get her to see you are not fooling around with her bullsheet.
2. Give you some space to get control of your emotions without her manipulation.

You should call her mom and explain what is happening and that you would appreciate her support. Also, call your mom and her dad. She's struck first blood by calling without you there so you need some damage control.

This is the advice I wish someone had given my husband. He let it go and go which made it so much worse. 

She should be kissing your behind and offering to do whatever it takes to make this up to you. The lack of remorse (especially considering these were short term hook ups) is really alarming. There's no telling what else has happened.

I hate to throw this out there but is it possible these are not your children?


----------



## SomedayDig

t666a4 said:


> I'm feeling just... over it right now. I'm so physically and emotionally drained. I havent eaten or slept in days.


Okay...glad you can own this really crappy part of what you're going through.

But do you have any idea how powerful you can make this? Dude, you have the chance to use this to better yourself. I lost 20 pounds when I found out about my wife. I didn't eat well for a long time - at least 3 weeks.

Then on 5/1 (Dday 3/6) I started working out at a new gym that opened 5 minutes from my house. The fat I had lost helped my body transform into a bit of what I looked like in my 20's (I'll be 45 in a couple months). I lost 2 pant sizes and easily fit into size 34 with a belt. My suits and shirts for work are the "fit" type...AND they work!

Now, I don't buy into some of the alpha male stuff that you might read around here...but what this stuff did for me was simply remind me who I am. I am the man of the house. There are a LOT of women out there who turn their heads when I walk by now. Regret (my wife) even notices when they look.

Drink plenty of water. If you don't wanna eat solid foods, then go buy a good whey protein formula and drink it. Walk...move your body. Hell, I even bought a heavy bag for my garage and I can't tell ya how great that has been when I get in a dark mood and wanna hit something...or someone. 

Transform yourself, man. It will do wonders for your self esteem AND...here's the best part...SHE, your wife, will take notice. She just might come clean. Regret eventually did.


----------



## SomedayDig

Shaggy said:


> Keep this in mind - your silence at the right times is more of an effective tool to get to her than any words you could possibly say.
> 
> For instance when she says I've told you everything, don't debate it. Go silent and walk away.


Absolute truth!!!

In the art of negotiations, it is said that the person who speaks next loses.

Example: I told Regret on 8/30 that if she didn't come clean with the last of the stuff, that I was walking. I gave her the name of my friend who is an attorney and I told her I was going inside to grab my Skoal. Told her she had 2 minutes to think about it. When I came back to her (outside on the deck) I didn't utter a single word. I just sat there for like 5 minutes. Just staring at her.

She broke down and told me all the crap that she had been holding back. And...it was stupid silly sh-t to boot that she was holding back.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> Ugh - even worse. I'm so sorry. Can you ask her to leave and go stay with her mom until you get the full story from her?
> 
> It might serve two purposes:
> 
> 1. Get her to see you are not fooling around with her bullsheet.
> 2. Give you some space to get control of your emotions without her manipulation.
> 
> You should call her mom and explain what is happening and that you would appreciate her support. Also, call your mom and her dad. She's struck first blood by calling without you there so you need some damage control.
> 
> This is the advice I wish someone had given my husband. He let it go and go which made it so much worse.
> 
> She should be kissing your behind and offering to do whatever it takes to make this up to you. The lack of remorse (especially considering these were short term hook ups) is really alarming. There's no telling what else has happened.
> 
> I hate to throw this out there but is it possible these are not your children?


I feel like she is starting to be remorseful, at least more so. She was and probably still is in a huge state of denial.

Is separation really a good thing? She had actually mentioned she would go stay at her mom's and I said no, cause I figured it would lead to rug sweeping, which I don't want to happen.

I do not believe that the kids aren't mine. Scary ****ing notion though. We had a lot of rough times back then too. It felt like we got over a hump around year... 3 or 4 and things were great for a while. I know they had gone downhill lately. I was just figuring it was a rut and that if it got bad enough, she would come to talk to me about it. I was all wrong about that.


----------



## t666a4

^ Yeah, I was in great shape in my early 20's.

I have definitely let that go. I don't think I'm too overweight, and I have good charisma with people.

A few months back a woman was coming onto me hard, I brushed her off and told my wife that night. She just laughed it off, cause that's how I treated it, it was no big deal to me. Maybe in retrospect it was a big deal to her. 

I jsut feel so f*cking stupid that this basically has been going on AT LEAST 5 months without me knowing a goddamn thing.


----------



## SomedayDig

Yes, bro. I had no idea what was going on for *5 F'NG YEARS!!!!!*

I get it. But it doesn't have anything to do with YOU. It has to do with her and her issues...the same issues that allowed her to fully pull the wool over your eyes.

It ain't you. I ain't you.


----------



## TCSRedhead

This isn't your fault or because of you! My husband is HOT - I know women hit on him and have seen them checking him out. 

A cheater cheats for selfish reasons. She not only cheated on you, she stole time and attention from your kids to spend on that piece of ****. She is jeopardizing THEIR family by refusing still to be honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

t666a4 said:


> .
> I guess I'll go get a gym membership and go lift some weights tonight, that always used to help with problems years ago.


Man, few of these situations vary much. It's like in fiction there are 7 basic plots and every story is working from one of those plots. In female adultery, there are about 3 plots. Because of that, I tend to repeat myself a lot. Anyway, here's the outline for your next chapter:

I. Start hardcore bodybuilding (no gear, or course). I recommend a book called "High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way." It's like $12 on Amazon. Very effective for the natural bodybuilder. I'd start out doing a workout every other day, at first. Lots of guys want more volume, but in the absence of gear, the results are about the same.

II. Change your haircut. If it's long, cut it short. If it's short, grow it out. In between, either way. Do a radical change, either way.

III. Get rid of the gut. Ideally, you want a 30-32 waist (right under the rib cage) and chest of 42-44 or higher to get the 1:1.4 "golden ratio" AKA "magic third" that triggers subconscious female attraction. Do this by cutting out beer and carbs, other than vegetables and beans.

IV. New wardrobe. Get some advice on how to dress like a guy 5 years younger and 3x the income. You can do it.

V. Start going out on weeknights. Looking good. Don't say where. Just say, "I'm going out. Be back later. Don't wait up."

VI. Start being mysterious and aloof generally. If she engages, be light and friendly, don't be too serious. Act like your wife is number one if she chooses to be, but you have a whole harem of women lined up waiting for you if this one doesn't work out. And remember, all the relationship working out to be done is on her end. But let her be the one to approach you about things.

This will seriously unbalance your relationship on several levels at once and put your wife on notice without a word being spoken. Start today.

Lastly, as others have said, your wife has been this way all along. She's a serial adulteress. It takes a long slow slide before a married woman "makes out" with some low-life tattooist (sorry to be redundant) she supposedly just met, in the presence of "friends," toxic or otherwise. 

No kids? My advice is to cash out now.


----------



## SomedayDig

Wow, Mach...I thought I was one of the only people who knew the name Mike Mentzer. That dude was a monster!

Sorry for the thread jack


----------



## t666a4

You expect the impossible... giving up beer?

I kid. I kid.

I do love beer though, especially craft beers, which are getting huge right now. I think I'll keep them and work out harder, lol.


----------



## Cold_World

Dude I am a fellow Reeditor that has also found out , He married a women of loose morals and possible personality issues. But give up the beer. 
I know what I am talking about. You need to get ur swagger back. I know turning to drinks is too easy. I am a mess because of it.

Not saying to become a diff person just take time to find your self again. 
I am prob the last person to be giving advice but feel odd bond to your pain. your post came out a day after mine and I saw almost an emotional echo while reading your updates. The woman you married is gone whats left is the person that got trapped in lies. Your wife as you knew her is not coming back. Your relationship maybe better long term if you accept it but it will never be the same.


----------



## Machiavelli

t666a4 said:


> You expect the impossible... giving up beer?
> 
> I kid. I kid.
> 
> I do love beer though, especially craft beers, which are getting huge right now. I think I'll keep them and work out harder, lol.


You can add some back after you get ripped. Beer is just liquid bread.


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> I feel like she is starting to be remorseful, at least more so. She was and probably still is in a huge state of denial.
> 
> Is separation really a good thing? She had actually mentioned she would go stay at her mom's and I said no, cause I figured it would lead to rug sweeping, which I don't want to happen.
> 
> I do not believe that the kids aren't mine. Scary ****ing notion though. We had a lot of rough times back then too. It felt like we got over a hump around year... 3 or 4 and things were great for a while. I know they had gone downhill lately. I was just figuring it was a rut and that if it got bad enough, she would come to talk to me about it. I was all wrong about that.


Remorseful behavior would essentially mean she's kissing your ass, making sure she is doing EVERYTHING she can to make this up to you. Is that her behavior or is she getting angry when you press for details and going behind your back to skew the view with your MIL? Don't minimize anything at this point with her behavior. 

It IS scary but if you were going through some rough times back then, and you 'think' they're your children, it's actually possible that they aren't. It's another item to add to her list that SHE needs to do to prove herself to you. She can do all the work and get testing done. She should be the one getting tested for STD's and scheduling your testing. Has she set up a doctor's appt yet? 

Women do not talk to men when the rut is bad enough. We assume that you notice how miserable, bored and lonely we are or we hope you won't notice when we start cheating. 

The harsh truth is that you happened to get lucky to pick up on enough of her behavior to catch this but with the snippets of truth she's given you, there's a whole iceberg under the water captain. I fought telling the truth every step of the way. 

Follow Mach's advice. Focus on your health and appearance. Keep your distance. As to whether to ask her to be out of the house or not, that's depending on what you need/want right now.


----------



## t666a4

Its amazing how much a nice run/walk can clear your head. I was feeling pretty damn good last night. Didn't end up going to the gym, decided I wanted to be alone, so I just started walking, ended up going about 3 or 4 miles, by mile 2 or 3 I just started running, and I ran pretty hard.

It felt great.

I hardly spoke to my WW yesterday, and she noticed. She slept on the ground last night, asked me if we were ever going to talk again this morning.

I told her how I am just giving myself time. Waiting for the next thing to come out. She said she gave me everything again. Swears it up and down, on the kids, dead relatives, etc.

I want to believe, but right now, I'm just trying to distance it a bit.

Question for you guys: We are supposed to go to a wedding this weekend. Should we still go?

I'm not sure what to do. We had a babysitter lined up already, and I told my friend we'd be there. I don't want to be a **** and not show up, and if I show up without my W it might be weird.

It also might be weird dancing and spending time with her like that. But it seems like it could be something good for R.

Maybe its a step. I just dont know.

One thing I do know. I'm going to go get running shoes today, f*ck running in skate shoes.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Keep doing what you're doing for you.

Stop thinking about what's good for her or the reconciliation. SHE needs to be the one thinking and worrying about that. 

You are focused on improving your health and value. You are focused on spending time with your kids. 

You are not focused on your wife, what she thinks, what she wants, etc. 

I'll throw this out there and see what the others think but I would say you give her a list of things SHE needs to do:
1. Schedule STD test for her.
2. Schedule polygraph for her.
3. Detail every physical act she did for any other man while married to you and when/where it occurred.
4. List every friend/acquaintance who knew about these activities.
5. Give every contact number of any OM she has had during your marriage.
6. Research paternity testing (she needs to know you have doubts about her going way back).
7. Schedule counseling for her to find out why she would do this.

If I were you, I would go to the wedding to support my friend but keep in mind if you bring your wife, you'll be hearing these vows of love and fidelity all the while thinking back to your day and how your wife lied. It might be better on your own and focused on your friend.


----------



## SomedayDig

Ouch...a wedding. That is like pure sex just waiting to happen. You have a tough call. My advice is for you to go stag. I know you say it might be weird, but guess what, man...it's already weird enough. There's always an excuse you can use, but you can't get out of an obviously weird predicament IF your wife goes with you.

Big question for you though is do you want to reconcile. By reconcile, I mean she is totally and fully on board with everything. Matter of fact, she needs to be so into you it's scary. I know this is new, man and I know there is a big part of you that wants to reconcile with her, but just know this: It takes TWO to reconcile. Look at the front page of this section and you'll see at least 2 or 3 threads started by people who thought they were in reconciliation. And not just new either...we're talking 1 to 3 years!!

Don't jump the gun.

As for running shoes...well, get yourself a good pair of Asics. Chuck Taylors are meant to just give a cool factor. Hell, Chucks are all I've worn for the past 30 years. Yes...almost 45 years old and still wear high and low Chucks. Even with a sports coat.


----------



## iheartlife

t666a4 said:


> I told her how I am just giving myself time. Waiting for the next thing to come out. She said she gave me everything again. Swears it up and down, on the kids, dead relatives, etc.


:rofl:

Oh, you _know_ they're lying when they bring up the kids' lives and their grandma's souls and such.

Honestly, I had never heard someone swear on their kids' lives before I came here. Every single time, every _single_ time, that a spouse has said that on this forum, the words turned out to be lies.

I don't mean to make light of your situation, but you can see now why we call it "the script."


----------



## t666a4

Man, not so sure I can be there for the vows.

I might not be able to hold back.

I like the suggestion, TCS to get the names of everyone who knows about any of the situations. One thing I havent thought of or asked.

Thanks for the shoe recommendation. Asics it is, though, I hope they make a comfortable light 13 wide ( I have huge feet  )

Iheart: Yeah... at the time she said it, seemed legit, but the more I thought of it, and I have read other stories of WW's doing that. Seems ****ed up. I guess a cheater has no word or integrity so nothing they say or swear or promise means anything to them.


----------



## SomedayDig

t666a4 said:


> *Thanks for the shoe recommendation. Asics it is, though, I hope they make a comfortable light 13 wide* ( I have huge feet  )
> .


Just like me, then. I'm size 13 and a supinator, so I needed a motion control running shoe. Look at the new Gel 6. I hear it's pretty good and not bad in the weight department. For size comparison, I'm 5'11" and 205 pounds...WITH a 34" waist, thank you Planet Fitness.


----------



## iheartlife

t666a4 said:


> Iheart: Yeah... at the time she said it, seemed legit, but the more I thought of it, and I have read other stories of WW's doing that. Seems ****ed up. I guess a cheater has no word or integrity so nothing they say or swear or promise means anything to them.


Let me guess...she said this very soulfully, while staring you straight in the eyes


----------



## Shaggy

If you can handle it without triggering, I'd say go to the wedding and put on a brave face and stay away from the booze.

It might give you an opportunity with your wife that doesn't involve kids or the affair.

Just tell your wife ahead of time that you might need to leave and you expect her to pack up and follow you without comment or questions.

Have you told her about her days going out drinking and going with the toxic friends are all over yet? That there will never be another girls night out, or a trip to Vegas without you?

And stop asking for more info at this point. You need her to take the polygraph.


----------



## walkonmars

iheartlife said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Oh, you _know_ they're lying when they bring up the kids' lives and their grandma's souls and such.
> 
> Honestly, I had never heard someone swear on their kids' lives before I came here. Every single time, every _single_ time, that a spouse has said that on this forum, the words turned out to be lies.
> 
> I don't mean to make light of your situation, but you can see now why we call it "the script."


Well. 
I swear on my kid's life that Saucony's Triumph 9s have been the best running shoes I've ever worn out. 

Oh, go to the wedding by yourself. Leave after one toast.


----------



## t666a4

^^ haha
6'1" here. Not sure about where I run on my feet though...

Yeah I got a good 20-30 pounds I'd like to lose.

I've always had a big build, wide shoulders, big legs. I never expect to be under 200, I'd probably look like a damn rail or anorexic or something


----------



## t666a4

Shaggy said:


> If you can handle it without triggering, I'd say go to the wedding and put on a brave face and stay away from the booze.
> 
> It might give you an opportunity with your wife that doesn't involve kids or the affair.
> 
> Just tell your wife ahead of time that you might need to leave and you expect her to pack up and follow you without comment or questions.
> 
> Have you told her about her days going out drinking and going with the toxic friends are all over yet? That there will never be another girls night out, or a trip to Vegas without you?
> 
> And stop asking for more info at this point. You need her to take the polygraph.


Yes I told her it was over, never another vegas trip, and never another GNO.

I agree, I wont be asking her for any more info. She is scheduling her STD test today. She asked if I was trying to find things that hurt her, when I asked her to do it.

I told her I think she should be doing anything I ask without question, and it wasnt about hurting her, it was about safety for both of us, and for our children.


----------



## naga75

I have some asics kahana 6. 
They rock i have put some miles on em yessir. 
I say go to the wedding. 
Your call on taking the wife but id probably decide she was sick and couldnt make it shes really sorry she missed it though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

t666a4 said:


> Yes I told her it was over, never another vegas trip, and never another GNO.
> 
> I agree, I wont be asking her for any more info. She is scheduling her STD test today. She asked if I was trying to find things that hurt her, when I asked her to do it.
> 
> I told her I think she should be doing anything I ask without question, and it wasnt about hurting her, it was about safety for both of us, and for our children.


I would go to the wedding with her and tell her this may be the last public function we go to together. You might lose it during the vows but hopefully she will too and realize what she may be losing. DNA the kids also just to show her you can't believe a word she says.


----------



## Machiavelli

iheartlife said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Oh, you _know_ they're lying when they bring up the kids' lives and their grandma's souls and such.
> 
> Honestly, I had never heard someone swear on their kids' lives before I came here. Every single time, every _single_ time, that a spouse has said that on this forum, the words turned out to be lies.
> 
> I don't mean to make light of your situation, but you can see now why we call it "the script."


Yup, my thoughts exactly. Kid's lives. When the woman brings up her *kid's lives* to swear on, it usually means she's been going with the OM to a swinger's club. Frequently.


----------



## Machiavelli

t666a4 said:


> She is scheduling her STD test today. She asked if I was trying to find things that hurt her, when I asked her to do it.


Funny thing for her to say, since she's the one trying to infect you with the clap.


----------



## t666a4

She didn't bring them up on her own... I guess I kinda steered the conversation there.


----------



## TCSRedhead

It's too bad she wasn't thinking of those kids when she decided to go hook up. As for 'hurting' her, I'm pretty sure she choose to endanger your health when she chose to hook up too. Definitely the wrong attitude - if she goes that path again, remind her YOU didn't choose this and she's lucky she's not tossed out at this point.

I agree with the others - Asics gels are the best for running. I can't believe how much easier running is on my knees with them.


----------



## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> It's too bad she wasn't thinking of those kids when she decided to go hook up. As for 'hurting' her, I'm pretty sure she choose to endanger your health when she chose to hook up too. Definitely the wrong attitude - if she goes that path again, remind her YOU didn't choose this and she's lucky she's not tossed out at this point.
> 
> I agree with the others - Asics gels are the best for running. I can't believe how much easier running is on my knees with them.


Yeah, thanks. Those are the things in my mind, I just didn't have the words for them. Next time I will use the words for sure. I am a very visual person, its how I learn, read, everything. Sometimes its hard to change pictures in my head into words out my mouth or onto paper.

Yeah not so sure the Adidas Skate shoes were good for me to run in, but it still felt amazing. I was surprised how far I went... maybe it was easy to run through the pain of running. That pain doesn't hurt any more.


----------



## TCSRedhead

t666a4 said:


> Yeah, thanks. Those are the things in my mind, I just didn't have the words for them. Next time I will use the words for sure. I am a very visual person, its how I learn, read, everything. Sometimes its hard to change pictures in my head into words out my mouth or onto paper.
> 
> Yeah not so sure the Adidas Skate shoes were good for me to run in, but it still felt amazing. I was surprised how far I went... maybe it was easy to run through the pain of running. That pain doesn't hurt any more.


The physical workout helps clear out some of the clouds and confusion in your head right now. It's very important to keep that up to allow you to think clearly and not let her emotional manipulation steer you away from what you need to do. Keep it up - it's good for your mental and physical well being right now.


----------



## naga75

yes i lift weights like a maniac now.
and a punching bag.
punching bag is like a anger management class for me. and it never breaks no matter how hard i hit it lol.


----------



## SomedayDig

Yeah...going primal on the heavy bag is f'ng one of the best things ever. Cures a sucky moose balls day every damn time!


----------



## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> Yeah...going primal on the heavy bag is f'ng one of the best things ever. Cures a sucky moose balls day every damn time!


haha

Love it.

Now I gotta get one and install it in my garage.


----------



## SomedayDig

I bought one at D icks Sports for like $100. I don't know if I coulda bought something for the Harley for $100 that I would enjoy as much!


----------



## t666a4

SomedayDig said:


> I bought one at D icks Sports for like $100. I don't know if I coulda bought something for the Harley for $100 that I would enjoy as much!


So, went shoe shopping last night. With the wife.

Ended up going with the Asics Gel 6. They felt great in store, though it was a close race between those and a pair of Saucony. I tried Adidas and Nike, none of them got even close. The Asics preformed even better while running than hopping around in the Famous Footwear looking like an idiot,

Tried a few new balance as well, no good there.

I was going for a run this morning with them, and my wife wanted to go with, I declined though, and told her I need to do this alone.

I told her that it still feels like there is things left out. She still swears up and down there is nothing, but **** if I know. She has always in the past said how bad of a liar she was, and I brought that up to her yesterday, and she tried to defend that still.... ****ing laughable to me, I told her she is amazing liar, for this to be going on, and for me to catch only based on the very most subtle of cue's.

I want to believe I stopped it before she had sex with that guy. I also want to believe that nothing else happened at Vegas when she was there. Even if its true and nothing happened, forgiving the things that happened are hard.

I feel like I'm going to be a completely difference person after this, I'm not sure she deserves that person or not. I guess no one can tell me that either.

She scheduled her STD test, its for next week.

I told her about the complete transparency thing. She has agreed and given me everything (I think?) I guess I should give her all of my info too right? I mean, I have never had a password on my phone, and she already knows most of my passwords.

I just dont think I am ready to tell her about this site. Its a place I can come and just get stuff out. I dont think I want to keep it from her, but I'm not sure. So I guess that is my question. Do I tell her about this post?

Edit: Sh!t, it might be good to tell her about it, so she can read it all...


----------



## Machiavelli

No. Don't tell her about this. Guys do this all the time, then more bad stuff gets exposed and the WW knows where the BH is getting all his support and can read the battle plan. Keep this to yourself.

What not a poly?


----------



## theroad

Machiavelli said:


> No. Don't tell her about this. Guys do this all the time, then more bad stuff gets exposed and the WW knows where the BH is getting all his support and can read the battle plan. Keep this to yourself.
> 
> What not a poly?


You want the truth then schedule a polygraph test then tell the WW the time for the test.

As the test day gets near your WW will as countless WW's before her will trickle truth some more to get you to cancel the test.

Thank her for the new info but the test is still on.


----------



## SomedayDig

I agree with Mach. The only reason my wife is on these forums is because she came here looking for help. I didn't join until a few months later.

Glad you got stunned y good shoes. They'll be better than those skater sneaks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## t666a4

Machiavelli said:


> No. Don't tell her about this. Guys do this all the time, then more bad stuff gets exposed and the WW knows where the BH is getting all his support and can read the battle plan. Keep this to yourself.
> 
> What not a poly?


That is what I was thinking... keep this place away from her for now. 


I didn't say I was again a poly, just... waiting I guess? See if I can get some more out of her, so that I can form better questions?

Edit: Thanks guys, and gals 

You are like family now. No wonder so many of you stick around here for so long after your "incident."


----------



## SomedayDig

t666a4 said:


> You are like family now. No wonder so many of you stick around here for so long after your "incident."


It's because we're waiting for people like you who need help and advice. Trust me, man... I would much rather be doing other stuff! But alas... I am here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

t666a4 said:


> That is what I was thinking... keep this place away from her for now.
> 
> 
> I didn't say I was again a poly, just... waiting I guess? See if I can get some more out of her, so that I can form better questions?
> 
> Edit: Thanks guys, and gals
> 
> You are like family now. No wonder so many of you stick around here for so long after your "incident."


You ask about sending her to her mom's, yes. Throwing her out is vvery strong and sends the message you need to send. You also need to do the 180 and no contact with her for a while. 

You are doing a good of working on yourself. Keep doing that. You need to make sure what you want to do.


----------



## TDSC60

SomedayDig said:


> It's because we're waiting for people like you who need help and advice. Trust me, man... I would much rather be doing other stuff! But alas... I am here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With great power comes great responsibility.


----------



## Rags

t666a4 said:


> You are like family now. No wonder so many of you stick around here for so long after your "incident."


So sorry for all those people who need to be here. MBT (Moose-Balls Time.) I don't know if/how I would cope (although teh info on here would be invaluable.)

I'm here because I want to make ***** sure I don't ever NEED to be here.

Sad though it seems, I think most people have the capacity to cheat in the right circumstances, and being here helps me 
a) recognise what a hidious mess it causes, 
b) recognise dangerous situations
c) recognise factors that create the circumstances where it happens

Preventive medicene, if you will.

(Of course, the flip side is, if I ever did want to cheat, I know all the tricks ... but I feel far LESS inclination, from having read what I have on CWI - and it has helped me once or twice to see things potential issues in other people's relationships.)

Not saying I would be likely to cheat if I hadn't read this stuff, but it reduces the (hopefully small) chance that was there.

Of course, I (like everyone else) think it's impossible that my wife might cheat. And I think it honestly is very unlikely. 
We actually had a conversation about the potential and past opportunities - and she mentioned a time when the possibility had occured - and how she backed out of it immediately and sharply.
And I told her of a similar occasion for me.

We are more aware of these situations now, and avoid them.

So, I thank you guys - not just for all the help you give those who end up here after D-Days - but for helping to prevent affairs from occuring.


----------



## VFW

You have been very diligent in getting information and I would say you are pretty close to the truth. Here is the thing, EVERYBODY tells the truth from their point of view. The official record of the Civil War is titled "The War of the Rebellion". I tell you this to demonstrate it was written by the north. The south would have never written such a book. Is it true? Yes, from a certain point of view. Is it the complete truth, well maybe not.

My point is this, at some point addition information is just that more information. Regardless of what else she may have done, she has done enough that you have a decision to make. You have to decide whether you want to work to fix the marriage or divorce if your differences are irreconcilable. 

When you make that decision you have to be careful that your discussions are constructive. I have learned that if people trust you, they will pretty much tell you anything you want to know. If they are concerned that you have ulterior motives, they become guarded and tell you the truth in increments (trickle truth). 

As you proceed forward then you can not use the same tactics, so you will need to learn to dial the interrogations down. She needs to know that you aren't going to hurt her with the information she is providing to you. 

She needs to feel that the reconciliation is an act of benevolence on your part and not a desire to control or humiliate her. That being said you still need to keep control, trust but verify. Best wishes to you at this very difficult time.


----------



## Chaparral

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/46355-iphone-4s-text-backups.html

iPhone Backup Extractor for Windows and Mac


----------



## SomedayDig

Moose balls.

It's really taking off. And I just thought of how to describe how bad my life sucked when I found out about Regret's 5 year affair. 

Who knew?!! LOL

I'm glad to have contributed a bit to the Urban Dictionary. I think I need a citation! And yes...I am f'ng proud of myself so there!!


----------



## TRy

t666a4 said:


> I want to believe I stopped it before she had sex with that guy. I also want to believe that nothing else happened at Vegas when she was there. Even if its true and nothing happened, forgiving the things that happened are hard.


 She may or may not of had intercourse with her affair partner (AP), but she did have sex with him for sure. You stated yourself that "she did admit that he took his junk out and she had hands on I guess"; that is called giving him a hand job and a hand job is sex. Also, you know that the reason she will not take a poly is because more happened between them than what she has admitted. Once she gave him the hand job, she at least gave him a blow job, why not when you think about it. Sorry but you know in your heart what I am saying is true so stop pretending that they did not have sex. 

They kissed, they felt each other up, she gave him a hand job, this is what she admitted to and this is sex. She probably gave him a blow job with the hand job, so the only thing in question is if they had intercourse or not. I am not telling you here to leave her or not, that is up to you, but please base any decision on what to do going forward on reality. You sound like a good person that is dealing with a problem not of your making. I wish you well.


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## TCSRedhead

Just checking to see how the weekend and wedding went. How are you doing?


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## t666a4

TCSRedhead said:


> Just checking to see how the weekend and wedding went. How are you doing?


Well ended up taking her to the wedding. We left semi early. She apologized a lot. After the vows, they had said something about respect. She said she hasn't been respecting me or the marriage, and apologized a lot. It felt very sincere. It was tough to handle though. Won't lie. I was mostly good and only drank a few beers.

Ran again every day since. Feels good. Trying to figure out what I want I guess.

The forgiveness some of you are capable of is inspiring. I guess everyone has it in them, just have to find it. Today is tough, it's a week since I confronted her and dday as it were.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

You have to know what you're forgiving, in order to forgive it. At least, it's very hard to retore trust without that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

t666a4 said:


> Yes I told her it was over, never another vegas trip, and never another GNO.
> 
> I agree, I wont be asking her for any more info. She is scheduling her STD test today. She asked if I was trying to find things that hurt her, when I asked her to do it.
> 
> I told her I think she should be doing anything I ask without question, and it wasnt about hurting her, it was about safety for both of us, and for our children.


When you get the "your controlling" speech, tell her no, she can do anything she wants but if she crosses your boundaries you will find someone who believes what you do and that you wish her well in the future.


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## t666a4

chapparal said:


> When you get the "your controlling" speech, tell her no, she can do anything she wants but if she crosses your boundaries you will find someone who believes what you do and that you wish her well in the future.


What do you mean?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express

If you are to stay and commit to R---you do not, until she takes the Polygraph----call your local police dept, they will tell who the best operators are

Your wife reacted violently when you brought it up before----believe me there is more there, in the past, she is selfishly holding on to it---cuz she knows the repercussions will be a nuclear winter for her!!!!!!

Who just goes and hooks up with guys in vegas---remember what happens in vegas stays in vegas-----your wife just downright "dissed" you, and thot nothing of doing it with 2 different guys, she didn't even know---they could have been psychos, criminals, druggies, rapists, and she just off and goes liplocking with them----give me a break----just out of curiosity, did she think at all of her own kids, while she is giving herself to other men--not much of a mother is she--and she doesn't have to have penetration sex with them, liplocking is just as bad---the passion is there, and the dissing of you is there.

Besides the poly, and that needs to come sooner than later---make her sign a POST--NUP, with a Duress clause

Also how do know she hasn't been SEXTING with her last lover---how do you know she wasn't using a burner phone----for sure what do you really truly know----MAKE HER TAKE THE POLY------her reactions alone especially just prior to the poly will give you everything you don't already have!!!!!!!!


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## Chaparral

t666a4 said:


> What do you mean?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you will now when she starts the you are trying to control her speech.

Have you seen a lawyer yet?


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