# "I want my husband back" was said to me



## Augusto

She said the other day she really misses the fun loving husband she used to have before her affair. She said I am not the man she married. She said I have turned into a very cynical person with a short fuse and wants "old me" back. 

Marriage counselor already told her that the husband she once knew will probably never be back. To tell you the truth, I am not sure I know who the "old me" is. My opinion is anyone that ate the sh!t sandwich to stay married and raise their children will always have changes no matter who that person used to be. 

If she does not want to be married to me, she can go somewhere else just like she tried to before that caused this whole thing. She does not know the hell I am living daily. I tell her but she has no clue. I am not sure she ever will unless she had to experience it. I would never put her through that. But I won't lie that if we did not have children, I would have been out the door the minute I found out about the affair and how she wished I were dead so she could have her other man without any consequences. 

I will give love as always but not what she wants in terms of who I am as a man. I have given her my heart back again for her to have freely and she has locked it up. However this time I have a duplicate of the key and will take it back if needed. I have told her that I will not fight for my marriage. I will not do anything to violate it but I won't fight to save it if she tries this again. 

I am not going to be who I was and she must accept me and who I am or what I have become. This is NOT my fault and I will not be blamed for changes I have gone through. She has to look at what she created and accept me for me. I am not tying to punish her in anyway. But I do have to respect myself and will not tolerate any bullish!t. She hates the fact that I will always be having to look over my shoulder. What she doesn't know is I have mirrors and and steel plate covering my back for that dagger as well. 

She said she never thought an affair would effect me like it has. She said in her mind while she was having it that she would always be able to come back if she didn't like the other man anymore. If that is the mentality of a cheater, reality must be a real b!tch!


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## Roselyn

Your wife is unrepentant. She wants to rugsweep her affair and pretend it never happened. She told you that she thinks that she could always go back to you if her affair did not work. You are her Plan B. Continue your counselling. This will help you see what your marriage has become and may help you heal.


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## TDSC60

And by the way................

You healing yourself from the destruction she has caused does not mean you have to stay married.

Your wife has a major role to play in your recovery if you are to remain married. So far, it does not appear she is capable of doing that.


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## just got it 55

Augusto You also have to live with the "New Her" as you now know what she is capable of

I would start the next discussion with that opening statement.

55


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## VirgenTecate

ThePheonix said:


> A classic example of irony are two people staying together for the kids only to have the kids' lives damaged forever by living in the toxic environment the parents think is hidden.


I totally feel you ThePheonix

But I also would find it difficult to leave them for one factor. Most children are physically and sexually abused by rotating boyfriends/girlfriends and stepparents. A cheating wife/husband are not going to look for top quality men and women. I would rather suffer in silence and even have my kids suffer a bit from us not loving each other to having my kids suffer from sexual abuse.


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## Adelais

Augusto, (1) what has your wife done to show you that she isn't "that" woman anymore, and that she would never cheat on your again?

(2) Has she read any books? After the Affair is a good one for her to start with. Hopefully other TAMers will come with more titles.

If she does some work on her own to empathize with you and show you that she understands your devastation, (3) do you believe you might ever believe her faithfulness?

If she hasn't read any books, or done any digging inside of herself to figure out how she came to a point that she could allow herself to be unfaithful to you, and even use you as "Plan B" it makes total sense that you are not convinced she is no longer "that" woman.

If she has done lots of work on her own, and you still feel this way, it could be that infidelity is a deal breaker for you, and you would be better off divorcing her instead of living with a woman you distrust and hate for the rest of your life.

Please come back and answer my questions. You have started other threads, people have posted on your threads, and you have not gone back to answer any of their questions, or say if what they have said is helpful to you or not.


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## Augusto

Oh and let me add that she constantly tells me she wishes to go back in time and beat the hell out of herself before she would engage in the affair to talk to herself about the HUGE mistake she is about to make.

My reply the other day was 

"me too....I would go do the same thing right before I would kneel on one knee and propose to you. Let him know she will have an affair and rip you to pieces"

Now she has been crying for days because of that comment. She said she never thought about these feelings and how an affair can change people of who they are and what they become. 

What she is starting to realize is the fact that she had power to have a hand in me being who I was. The power of being able to help shape the person she once loved and cherished. She has none of that now. She gets no power of that now. She can only see it and accept it. Am I better for it, I don't honestly know. But I won't be like that again. Not for any woman. I gave too much juice and was abused to hell. So yes....never again.


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## MattMatt

My formerly WS tried this nonsense on me, too.

"Matt, what happened to the fun-loving man I first met?"

They killed us, didn't they?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Augusto

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Augusto, (1) what has your wife done to show you that she isn't "that" woman anymore, and that she would never cheat on your again?
> 
> (2) Has she read any books? After the Affair is a good one for her to start with. Hopefully other TAMers will come with more titles.
> 
> If she does some work on her own to empathize with you and show you that she understands your devastation, (3) do you believe you might ever believe her faithfulness?
> 
> If she hasn't read any books, or done any digging inside of herself to figure out how she came to a point that she could allow herself to be unfaithful to you, and even use you as "Plan B" it makes total sense that you are not convinced she is no longer "that" woman.
> 
> If she has done lots of work on her own, and you still feel this way, it could be that infidelity is a deal breaker for you, and you would be better off divorcing her instead of living with a woman you distrust and hate for the rest of your life.
> 
> Please come back and answer my questions. You have started other threads, people have posted on your threads, and you have not gone back to answer any of their questions, or say if what they have said is helpful to you or not.


There is nothing she can do to show me that it will not happen again.
I can forgive but that doesn't mean I will forget. I live in fear not because of it happening again. But of what I might change into if it happens again.

She doesn't want to read any books because she does not feel they would help. I am not sure either. I read some and they did nothing for me. Just like counseling did nothing for me accept write checks to shrinks.

Sorry about not answering questions in the past....it's hard to answer everyone. And some I do ponder and I just do not want to answer.


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## Augusto

MattMatt said:


> My formerly WS tried this nonsense on me, too.
> 
> "Matt, what happened to the fun-loving man I first met?"
> 
> They killed us, didn't they?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes and they don't care until after they see the damage done. By then it too late to save that person they just shattered.


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## jsmart

She feels like she's doing you a favor by trying to work it out and wants you to rug sweep and act like she didn't betray you. You're supposed to do the heavy lifting to restore her honor and win her heart back. 

Go look at the threads on Loveshack's OW section. You'll read thread after thread of cheating wh0res pining after some POS that used them as a free prostitute. Not word of remorse for the husband that they betrayed or their children's family life they put in jeopardy. Just long list of their husbands shortcomings and how much they struggle not being in their POS's bed again. Some even describe how they're repulsed by their husbands touch. That's where your wife's head is at.


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## Adelais

Augusto said:


> There is nothing she can do to show me that it will not happen again.
> I can forgive but that doesn't mean I will forget. I live in fear not because of it happening again. *But of what I might change into if it happens again.*


What will you change into that you are not already?



Augusto said:


> She doesn't want to read any books because she does not feel they would help.


How does she believe she will learn about herself? Has she dug deep into herself to find out what is broken, missing, distorted, evil, (whatever), inside of herself that allowed herself to cheat on you? She needs to know what is wrong with herself, face it and FIX it. In doing so, she might give you some confidence that she is a changed woman, who no longer is capable of cheating.

If she refuses to fix herself, then you might do yourself (and her) a favor by divorcing her. Don't wait any longer. You will not get relief as long as she is not desperate to find out about herself and fix it.



Augusto said:


> I am not sure either. I read some and they did nothing for me. Just like counseling did nothing for me accept write checks to shrinks.


Reading the books only help you know what to expect in yourself, and not to blame yourself for feeling like cr*p. You can stop reading books and going to shrinks. It is her turn now.

I think you have your answer, and that is why you are so miserable. You need to end the misery and cut her loose. 



Augusto said:


> Sorry about not answering questions in the past....it's hard to answer everyone. And some I do ponder and I just do not want to answer.


Why do you not want to answer? We can't help you if you are not open with us. The same goes for your wife.

What do you want out of your marriage? What will it take to get your needs met?


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## Adelais

jsmart said:


> She feels like she's doing you a favor by trying to work it out and wants you to rug sweep and act like she didn't betray you. You're supposed to do the heavy lifting to restore her honor and win her heart back.
> 
> *Go look at the threads on Loveshack's OW section. You'll read thread after thread of cheating wh0res pining after some POS that used them as a free prostitute. Not word of remorse for the husband that they betrayed or their children's family life they put in jeopardy. Just long list of their husbands shortcomings and how much they struggle not being in their POS's bed again. Some even describe how they're repulsed by their husbands touch. That's where your wife's head is at.*


:iagree:


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## Augusto

MattMatt said:


> My formerly WS tried this nonsense on me, too.
> 
> "Matt, what happened to the fun-loving man I first met?"
> 
> They killed us, didn't they?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





IMFarAboveRubies said:


> :iagree:


You guys need to start giving links.... User loveshack was not found in a search


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## Adelais

Loveshack is another website. It has a forum for cheaters.

type in .org

.com is a porn site.


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## syhoybenden

Not much difference really.


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## ThePheonix

A classic example of irony are two people staying together for the kids only to have the kids' lives damaged forever by living in the toxic environment the parents think is hidden.
Face it Augee, you ain't staying for the kids. You mention the kids once and write a dissertation on how much you wish she could understand how much she hurt you, how your love for her continues, and how you've given her your heart back. 
Here's a clue why she treats you like she's done little more than overspent the budget. When a woman wishes you would die to save her the onerous task of divorce, it means she doesn't give a rats azz about you no matter what motions you go through. Her saying youre not the man she married is womanese for, "gawd, if you only knew what a drag it is to be stuck with you"


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## Augusto

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Loveshack is another website. It has a forum for cheaters.
> 
> type in .org
> 
> .com is a porn site.


Oh...well not really into other sites.....hate going site to site. Perhaps later if I have time.


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## MattMatt

Augusto said:


> You guys need to start giving links.... User loveshack was not found in a search


Never Been there. I don't think I would like it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adelais

Augusto said:


> Oh...well not really into other sites.....hate going site to site. Perhaps later if I have time.


I only joined thinking I had to in order to read posts referred to on TAM.

There is an excellent site you and your wife might join however.

MarriageBuilders

You can learn about excellent books that you and your wife should read if you ever enter into real reconciliation. The book LoveBusters is very eye opening.


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## Happilymarried25

She really thought that if things didn't work out with the OM she could just come back and you be the same guy you were before and it wouldn't matter much to you that she cheated? It's probably good that you are not that same man if she felt that way. Most husbands do not take the cheating wife back so she is lucky you did but she doesn't show it. Her cheating has changed you and she needs to accept that without complaining.


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## HobbesTheTiger

How old are the kids approximately? How long before they can legally voice their opinion on how much time they want to spend with you and her, and have that opinion taken into account by the courts? Best wishes


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## RWB

Roselyn said:


> She told you that she thinks that she could always go back to you if her affair did not work. * You are her Plan B. *


Aug,

After 6+ years of R with my FWW, "Plan B" about sums it all up.

I'm Plan B, she's my Plan B, our marriage is Plan B. Plan A died and was buried years ago when she willingly and with conscience intent violated our marriage. At least I'm honest enough to admit it.

Oh well... time to get busy living.


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## Augusto

HobbesTheTiger said:


> How old are the kids approximately? How long before they can legally voice their opinion on how much time they want to spend with you and her, and have that opinion taken into account by the courts? Best wishes


13,10, 7, and 3


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## Broken at 20

You're apathetic. 
The sole reason you are staying is the children. You don't love this woman. You hold her in contempt, or at the very least, indifference. 

You've changed as a person, and have no desire to change from your current self, because the current you is protected from being hurt in the future. 

And she is likely cursing herself because it was her own actions that caused what she cared for most in the world (even though she did cheat on you) to turn into someone that doesn't even care about her. 


I'm in the same state-of-mind you are. Apathetic, and suffering from an inability to care for those around you.


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## TDSC60

Apathetic = self protection

Was it Simon & Garfunkle? "If I had never loved, I never would have been hurt".

I you don't care about her, she can not hurt you again.


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## Kelly:(

I think that it's really important to focus your attention to the fact that while she was having an affair she wished you were dead. That's really scarey. I can't imagine how someone could feel that way about their husband regardless if they didn't love him anymore. Put that with her lack of repentance in how she expects you to pretend like your heart never got ripped out of your chest, chewed up and spat out into your face and she wants the old you back. There's something wrong with her and you might consider moving on with your kids because it's not health or continue with counseling. You are not a door mat as someone once said to me. I hope the best for you but prepare yourself for the worst.


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## lifeistooshort

I agree with Kelly. I don't know how you come back from being wished dead.

Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken at 20

TDSC60 said:


> Apathetic = self protection
> 
> Was it Simon & Garfunkle? "If I had never loved, I never would have been hurt".
> 
> I you don't care about her, she can not hurt you again.


But why stay with her, and after everything she has done? He's apathetic, and those feelings she wants aren't ever going to come back. Her betrayal, and her actions afterwards made sure of that. 

Better to shoot it in the head now than let it bleed to death over the next 10-15 years.


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## jsmart

Being apathetic can give way to true love but it will take time and a spouse doing the hard work of showing love through actions. Reassuring the betrayed when spouse is triggered. Of course the betrayed also has to respond to the work being put in. 

Some truly remorseful WWs can help build there man up but most don't have the inner strength to put in the work in the face of rejection from a hurt BH. They want an instant turn around. It's almost like she saying "man up already." "I said I was sorry and I'm here with you, isn't that enough."


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## Be smart

Staying in this marriage is going to cost you a lot my friend and dont forget about your kids.

Maybe you dont realize this now,but all this is having a huge impact on your health.

I still cant belive you made it so far. You are not plan B,you are Plan C sorry 

After all she did,her actions,words and now pushing you and literally blaming you because you become another person would be enough for me to walk away.

Remember - she never choose you because she loves you or she feels sorry for pain she caused. She choose you because OM decided to walk away from her and stay with his own wife.

If she truly wants to stay with you she would offer her own help and try to heal you,but all she got is saying "you are living in the past" or she wants her "old husband back". 

She cant have that,because she destroyed that.

Stay strong my friend.


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## Openminded

Children see and hear far more than parents think they do. They want to see their parents together but they also want them to be happy. They know when things aren't the way they should be. They're really good at picking up less-than-loving tones. And watching less-than-loving looks directed at one parent from another. And observing emotional distance between their parents. As a child, I didn't miss anything. And I wished every day that my mother had left when she almost did but she stayed for me. That time is fifty-five years in the past and I still wish she had left. Not every child reacts the way I did but many do.


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## LosingHim

I am sorry you are here, and I'm sorry that she did this to you.

I hope that you start to feel better soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jigga114

Hi Augusto. I just read one of your earlier threads, and something you wrote there really stood out to me. I don't have much info on how your d day unfolded (whether you discovered the A or she confessed), but the fact that you said the following gives me a better understanding of where you are at:

"The real deal is he cut her off. He decided to stay with his wife and I feel like 2nd best. Like I am the "plan B" or the default....if it doesn't work out with the other man, i still have my husband kind of thing."

The pain and uncertainty this realization leads to must be unbearable. I truly feel for you. The sad fact about this though is that there is nothing your wife can say to you to ease your fears. I hope she has taken tangible actions to demonstrate that you are not plan B. What she wrote in her journal is also unspeakable. You must be a better person than me, because I do not think I could come back from that.

How can she say she wants the old you back when she played the primary role in destroying the old you? It sounds like she does not truly understand what her decision to cheat did and continues to do to you. She may be sorry she cheated, but without a fuller understanding of the impact of her actions on you, you will keep going round in circles. That's why I think reading books such as "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" will be beneficial to your M. It may help open her eyes to the true extent of the damage she caused. That understanding will most likely stop her from making such selfish statements in the future, because when she says "I want my old H back", she is signaling that she is still thinking about herself, and only herself. Good Luck OP.


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## jsmart

Holy $h!t. I just read some of your prior post. She was having a sexual relationship with POS while pregnant with your baby. She wished you and the kids were dead? She made a serious attempt to run off with a married POS. WTF are you doing with her. 

It's not to late to regain your pride. Burn it all down. Let yourself see that you can thrive without her. As long as your with her, you'll be an injured man that she finds lacking. She'll never get that old husband just like you can no longer have the wife that hasn't been defiled, wished death upon you and the kids, or came back to you after being dumped by POS.


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## Marc878

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Loveshack is another website. It has a forum for cheaters.
> 
> type in .org
> 
> .com is a porn site.


Ah ha!!!! Caught you!!! >


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## phillybeffandswiss

Whatever you decide, make sure you protect the children. Of course she misses the other you because that guy was fun, she was able to cheat, had kids, wished you were dead and was able to come back to her plan A failed. She didn't expect Plan B to get a backbone and tell her the truth about what she did to the marriage and her family.


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## LosingHim

jsmart said:


> Holy $h!t. I just read some of your prior post. She was having a sexual relationship with POS while pregnant with your baby. She wished you and the kids were dead? She made a serious attempt to run off with a married POS. WTF are you doing with her.
> 
> It's not to late to regain your pride. Burn it all down. Let yourself see that you can thrive without her. As long as your with her, you'll be an injured man that she finds lacking. She'll never get that old husband just like you can no longer have the wife that hasn't been defiled, wished death upon you and the kids, or came back to you after being dumped by POS.


Holy ****. I missed all that. 

I am not a proponent of divorce. I fully think two dedicated people should always TRY to work it out. 

But to read this and then read she wants her old husband back? 

Wow. Just wow.

I don't think she deserves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adelais

Marc878 said:


> Ah ha!!!! Caught you!!! >


Ha! Ha!


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## Marc878

Couldn't Resist. Too funny!!!!!


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## Augusto

Broken at 20 said:


> You're apathetic.
> The sole reason you are staying is the children. You don't love this woman. You hold her in contempt, or at the very least, indifference.
> 
> You've changed as a person, and have no desire to change from your current self, because the current you is protected from being hurt in the future.
> 
> And she is likely cursing herself because it was her own actions that caused what she cared for most in the world (even though she did cheat on you) to turn into someone that doesn't even care about her.
> 
> 
> I'm in the same state-of-mind you are. Apathetic, and suffering from an inability to care for those around you.


I do love this woman.....its just different than before. Hard to explain. And not only for the kids am I here. And it is not a toxic environment. I still wear my ring and hold true to my vows.


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## Augusto

Marc878 said:


> Couldn't Resist. Too funny!!!!!



He knows all of those sites :wink2:


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## Thundarr

Augusto said:


> She said the other day she really misses the fun loving husband she used to have before her affair. She said I am not the man she married. She said I have turned into a very cynical person with a short fuse and wants "old me" back.
> 
> Marriage counselor already told her that the husband she once knew will probably never be back. To tell you the truth, I am not sure I know who the "old me" is. My opinion is anyone that ate the sh!t sandwich to stay married and raise their children will always have changes no matter who that person used to be.
> 
> If she does not want to be married to me, she can go somewhere else just like she tried to before that caused this whole thing. She does not know the hell I am living daily. I tell her but she has no clue. I am not sure she ever will unless she had to experience it. I would never put her through that. But I won't lie that if we did not have children, I would have been out the door the minute I found out about the affair and how she wished I were dead so she could have her other man without any consequences.
> 
> I will give love as always but not what she wants in terms of who I am as a man. I have given her my heart back again for her to have freely and she has locked it up. However this time I have a duplicate of the key and will take it back if needed. I have told her that I will not fight for my marriage. I will not do anything to violate it but I won't fight to save it if she tries this again.
> 
> I am not going to be who I was and she must accept me and who I am or what I have become. This is NOT my fault and I will not be blamed for changes I have gone through. She has to look at what she created and accept me for me. I am not tying to punish her in anyway. But I do have to respect myself and will not tolerate any bullish!t. She hates the fact that I will always be having to look over my shoulder. What she doesn't know is I have mirrors and and steel plate covering my back for that dagger as well.
> 
> She said she never thought an affair would effect me like it has. She said in her mind while she was having it that she would always be able to come back if she didn't like the other man anymore. If that is the mentality of a cheater, reality must be a real b!tch!


Of course she misses that guy but you're not that guy any more and you shouldn't be. For this to work out, she has to own the destruction.


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## Augusto

How long does it take? Is it based on level of betrayal? I have not asked anything from her lately. I don't want her feeling remorseful and crap because I don't want her fvcking pity and crying and crap like that. I want her to be busy and not think about it as is effects the kids negatively. It was like that before. I do not want it. Shrink could be right though. I would feel this way the rest of my life with any woman. So my opinion is might as well be this one as damage is probably permanent. Who knows as only time will tell. To this day I do not know what I did wrong. She said I did everything right and I am not at fault....She's damn fvcking right about that!!! But it doesn't help me clear out the mind movies and nightmares. Not fair to another woman either if I was to get a different wife for me to wake up in the middle of the night with clammy hands because the one person I gave my all to was fvcking another man in my dreams. But I do not want another wife either so let me make that perfectly clear.


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## Omego

You'll never be at peace if you stay in this relationship. You need to accept that. And as someone else said, your health will suffer. 

I mean no disrespect, but I'm telling you that if your wife finds another opportunity, she'll do the same thing again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emmi

SI have not read your old posts, so I probably don't have the full story, but you said she is willing to do anything to help you heal, is that still the case? If so I think chances for you to heal is better with your wife, if she is truly repentant that is. She broke your trust so if she can prove herself trustworthy again that would be great.

She did change you, but you allowed yourself to change as well. I refuse to change because of what my husband did, I will not allow myself to become bitter or cynical. He is helping me heal by being better and proving to be trustworthy again. 

Also I try my best to be constructive. I tell him how I feel, but I don't say things that will break him down emotionally. And I never say things I don't mean. I would not tell myself to not marry him. If you really meant that then why are you still with her. For the kids? They wouldn't be there is you never married her right? She tried to show you remorse and to make things better, you could have appreciated that but instead you threw it in her face, and turned her words into something negative.

Yes she needs to to the majority or the work to rebuild trust and your relationship. Either you let her do that without sabotaging her attempts, or you leave. Don't break her down or punish her, let her help you heal, and try to heal yourself as well. Find a better therapist too. Love is a choice, trust is also a choice. It is better to be vulnerable with the risk involved, than the alternative. Let her prove to you that she was wrong, let her prove that you are her plan A. 

I think your therapist was wrong in saying you might never heal, you can choose to heal, not over night, but still. Focus on what's good. Why do you want to be with her. Remind yourself of the good things. Or give up, you are holding on to your limbo, don't do that. You have to either move forward (with her) or move on (without her).

Wish you strength, peace and happiness.


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## jigga114

Augusto, do you feel like you have made any progress moving forward over the last 2 years or so? Are you still currently suffering from mind movies at the same frequency and intensity as 2 years ago? Do you think your wife understands the difference between regret and remorse, and from your perspective, do you think she is remorseful or filled with regret? I know you say she cries at times, but are those tears for what she did to you and your children or are they for herself? How long are you willing to live with the pain of her A?


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## jigga114

Emmi said:


> SI have not read your old posts, so I probably don't have the full story, but you said she is willing to do anything to help you heal, is that still the case?


If you get the chance to read OP's story, do it. I just read it today and I must say it helped me understand why OP is where he is at the moment.


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## Openminded

Time can help but it's no guarantee. You received a tremendous shock and one on that scale is very difficult to recover from. Don't put expectations on yourself and certainly don't allow her to. It takes however long it takes. And that could be forever so she needs to get used to that. Life changed when she did what she did. She's lost the right to complain that you aren't who you used to be and she needs to get used to that. Few would choose to R with someone who did what she did so she needs to recognize it for the huge gift that it is.


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## ConanHub

You should not have attempted R.

She doesn't get it.

She is not remorseful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Your decision to R for the kids was not a healthy one.

Please divorce and be a healthy dad instead of a dysfunctional one due to the massive damage that ***** inflicted on you and continues to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

intheory said:


> Said he of the jigging, jolly cats avatar.
> 
> Glad she didn't totally destroy your spirit.:wink2:


Truth is that it came pretty close to destroying my spirit.

But I survived.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## syhoybenden

ConanHub said:


> Your decision to R for the kids was not a healthy one.
> 
> Please divorce and be a healthy dad instead of a dysfunctional one due to the massive damage that ***** inflicted on you and continues to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

It will be far far better for your kids to have come from a broken home than have to live in a broken home.


----------



## bandit.45

I agree totally with ConanHub. 

Your WW never loved you. Not in the way a woman who is truly in love with a man loves her man. You are the father of her kids, you are a coparent and you help provide her with a lifestyle she would not otherwise have without you. That's it. 

You are in every way plan B, and deep down you know that if you stay with her, she will rug sweep the entire affair and go back to her old ways. She can't stand being cooped up this way. She can't stand having to fight her normal impulses.


----------



## bigfoot

You were destroyed and so was your marriage. You are like a ghost. Your passing was so tragic that you haunt your marriage unable to be happy.

You love her, but that's because you are afraid not to.

Try letting go. Maybe it ends the marriage, maybe it doesn't. You sound like a hostage. You are trapped, but you won't go thru any open window or door. I know, first ghost now hostage, right. My point is that your mind keeps you in this existence. 

Your prior post noted that you were told that it would to take 3 to 5 years to get over this. Problem is, this is not like a cold or the flu. You can't just rest in your sick bed until it passes. You have to do some things.

You chose R, and I'm not sure that you gave D a fair vetting. The thing about D or R is that just because you start does not mean you have to finish it. You can always stop. 

Look at the other options, seriously consider them. Feel them, want them, embrace them. Let yourself know that you can leave. Let yourself dream about how good life would be. Right now you think of her with some other guy instead of thinking of you not being with her, maybe not with anyone in particular, but just free. You've gotta stop seeing her as a prize. Then, you might decide to stay or leave. I imagine the old you liked being in control of his destiny.

You can still R, but do so out of a decision process that comes from strength in knowing that you could live very well Divorced, but have chosen to stay.

Either route is hard. You may very well be on target with R right now, too. Sucks, but still on target with how you feel. Good luck.


----------



## TDSC60

R only works if both spouses are 100% committed.

Your wife never wanted R. She wanted OM (probably still does) until her dumped her. She stayed with you because she had nowhere else to go. She did not come back to the marriage because she wanted to do so. She returned because she had to. This makes you question anything she says. You know that you cannot trust her even now. You know that marriage is gone and she can never really commit to rebuilding a marriage with you since that was not her choice.

The confusion and hesitation you feel is normal. Because deep down, you know you do not have the basic foundation that is required to rebuild a broken marriage.


----------



## Augusto

ConanHub said:


> Your decision to R for the kids was not a healthy one.
> 
> Please divorce and be a healthy dad instead of a dysfunctional one due to the massive damage that ***** inflicted on you and continues to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's not judge here. I am doing what I think is best.


----------



## LosingHim

Augusto said:


> Let's not judge here. I am doing what I think is best.


No one is judging.  We have the facts as you've presented them and opinions are formed based on that. 

I get that you love her, and I get that you want to stay for your kids as well.

But WHY do you love her? Is your love for her greater than you love yourself? I'm not being mean by saying that, it's an honest question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart

I would advise that you work on being a better man across the board. Your confidence took a beating and you obviously haven't recovered. You have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and heal yourself because your wife can't heal you.

Get in the gym working out hard. Go take up boxing or a martial art. Take up a manly hobby that gets you outdoors around other men. Fishing, hunting, shooting a gun a range, paintballing, mud running, mountain or road biking, kayaking, ETC. 

In other words get in touch with your masculine side. Being a husband and father can feminize us. Get busy finding your inner warrior. It's a quest worth pursing. You'll like yourself more and will be able to be a strong father for your kids. Once you're whole again, you'll be able to R from a position of strength or D without fear.


----------



## Augusto

LosingHim said:


> No one is judging.  We have the facts as you've presented them and opinions are formed based on that.
> 
> I get that you love her, and I get that you want to stay for your kids as well.
> 
> But WHY do you love her? Is your love for her greater than you love yourself? I'm not being mean by saying that, it's an honest question.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


----------



## just got it 55

Augusto said:


> I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


Augusto Most of us fight that urge We need to stay on top of it otherwise we fail

Read The four agreements and Awareness

55


----------



## jim123

Work on you. This is no way to live. Do not let this define you. Why let your WW and OM win.


Live your life with or without her.


----------



## ConanHub

Augusto said:


> Let's not judge here. I am doing what I think is best.


That was not judging in the sense you are phrasing it.

My post was an accurate assessment of your situation from an objective point of view that you, understandably can't have.

Reconciliation for children is usually, almost every time, a bad choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Augusto said:


> I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


And that would be fine if she was capable of loving you as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Augusto said:


> Let's not judge here. I am doing what I think is best.


 All we have to do is read your opening posts. Your choice was and is unhealthy. There is no judging, just the truth.

You wish you could go back in time and stop yourself from proposing to your wife with violence. 
You admit you are a cynic.
You admit you have changed for the worse.
You love someone who wanted her family DEAD.

No, this isn't healthy by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Thound

Augusto said:


> I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


Do you think maybe you love the idea of her? Do you love her cheating and all?


----------



## bandit.45

Augusto said:


> I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


Yeah, but see that is not healthy. For one, it speaks of a dissatisfaction with yourself as a man that has probably infiltrated all aspects of your life. 

I feel like sometimes we pick partners who's behavior presents how we feel about ourselves.


----------



## TeddieG

Augusto said:


> Oh and let me add that she constantly tells me she wishes to go back in time and beat the hell out of herself before she would engage in the affair to talk to herself about the HUGE mistake she is about to make.
> 
> My reply the other day was
> 
> "me too....I would go do the same thing right before I would kneel on one knee and propose to you. Let him know she will have an affair and rip you to pieces"
> 
> Now she has been crying for days because of that comment. She said she never thought about these feelings and how an affair can change people of who they are and what they become.
> 
> What she is starting to realize is the fact that she had power to have a hand in me being who I was. The power of being able to help shape the person she once loved and cherished. She has none of that now. She gets no power of that now. She can only see it and accept it. Am I better for it, I don't honestly know. But I won't be like that again. Not for any woman. I gave too much juice and was abused to hell. So yes....never again.


Yup, this is the issue. When we trust and love them, they have SO much power over us, and either they never knew that, so weren't healthy enough for a relationship to begin with, or lost sight of it and it wasn't enough to stop them from their hurtful behavior. @MattMatt's right. They kill us, and then want us to resurrect ourselves from the dead.

If my h were to ever come back and want to talk about what happened, I would tell him I have forgiven him but that if we were to reconcile, he would need to know that while I trusted him once, I will probably never be so naive as to believe he couldn't and wouldn't do this to me again.


----------



## TeddieG

Thundarr said:


> Of course she misses that guy but you're not that guy any more and you shouldn't be. For this to work out, she has to own the destruction.


But isn't it ironic that she misses the guy that she didn't value enough then not to cheat on? SO interesting how they make a decision to break our hearts into a million pieces, break down our self-esteem and attack our identity with their blame-shifting and making THEIR decision to cheat all OUR fault, and then whine when they wake up out of the fog and realize, what the hell was that . . . why can't I have back what I had???

Fvcking mind boggling.


----------



## TeddieG

I'm late to this thread and posted my earlier comments AS I read. But now that I'm at the end of it, I see more than just her complaint that you're not the man you used to be. I see it as others have said still all about her, but in a particular way. It's more than a rugsweep, it is like, dude, snap out of it, get over it, let's move on, because *I*, the cheating spouse, don't want to do the work, the heavy lifting, to be remorseful and to help you learn to trust me again and feel comfortable that I learned my terrible lesson and would never dream of doing this to you. 

So since you say you love you her more than yourself, and she knows that, she wants you to get back on board with her plan and show her you love her more than yourself by not making her accountable for her actions. 

I don't know about you, but the LAST thing I want is a spouse who doesn't make me accountable for my actions. That's part of myself and choosing them as a partner to live a good and ethical and moral life is part of choosing someone who knows me better than anyone else, can support me in my good desires and can call me out when I'm on the verge of doing something not like me, out of character for me.


----------



## bandit.45

TeddieG said:


> But isn't it ironic that she misses the guy that she didn't value enough then not to cheat on? SO interesting how they make a decision to break our hearts into a million pieces, break down our self-esteem and attack our identity with their blame-shifting and making THEIR decision to cheat all OUR fault, and then whine when they wake up out of the fog and realize, what the hell was that . . . why can't I have back what I had???
> 
> Fvcking mind boggling.


This... is the Great Mystery of TAM. The question of questions...a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.


----------



## Be smart

To answer you question my friend : you did nothing wrong.
Your wife choose to this,not even thinking about you and your kids.

Set yourself free and Divorce her. You deserve better life.

Stay strong.


----------



## alte Dame

This is a true tragic love that you seem to feel, Augusto. When you love someone in such a way that it doesn't matter that she has bad character and damages you to your very soul. That is tragic.

You are only trapped by this love insofar as you let yourself be trapped, however. You can do the harder thing in the short term, which is file for divorce and start a new life for yourself. This is painful at the start, but I would bet the farm that you'd be much happier in the long run.


----------



## Adelais

Augusto said:


> Not fair to another woman either if I was to get a different wife for me to wake up in the middle of the night with clammy hands because the one person I gave my all to was fvcking another man in my dreams.


If you divorced your current wife and fell in love with another woman, your brain would not be consumed with your previous wife. You would be blissfully focused on your new wife.


Augusto said:


> But I do not want another wife either so let me make that perfectly clear.


Understood.


----------



## Adelais

The 3-5 years is _*if*_ the WS is working very hard at fixing their end. Your wife is not doing that. You are not half way through the pain of R, you have not even begun healing. 

If she were to begin to address her issues today,_* then*_ you could expect to feel better in 3-5 years.


----------



## ThePheonix

Augusto said:


> I think it may be that I love her more than myself.


Actually you don't Augee. If you go back and read your post you focus on what she's done to you, how much she hurt your, etc, ect. 
If you loved her more than yourself you would have set her free, releasing her from a marriage she wanted out of so much she wished you'd kick the bucket just to get away from you.
If you loved her more than yourself, your pain notwithstanding, you would willingly let her do her own thing to be happy rather than make her be something she's fighting you not to become.


----------



## Thundarr

TeddieG said:


> But isn't it ironic that she misses the guy that she didn't value enough then not to cheat on? SO interesting how they make a decision to break our hearts into a million pieces, break down our self-esteem and attack our identity with their blame-shifting and making THEIR decision to cheat all OUR fault, and then whine when they wake up out of the fog and realize, what the hell was that . . . why can't I have back what I had???
> 
> Fvcking mind boggling.


Ironic but common. It's easy to be sorry and to want another chance and to have some kind of regret. But remorse is more than that. Remorse is that plus having the stones to do the heavy lifting. Most waywards feel sorry or guilty or regretful but only waywards who take that extra step of remorse are capable of their part of actual reconciliation.


----------



## Augusto

You guys/gals are absolutely right. I need to go back to me being me and not what she wants me to be or what she had. I started somewhat last night. I will go back to the gym Wednesday as I am helping my parents move next few evenings. But I will start with my my grooming. I used to love wet shaving, showers, and classic aftershaves. Fun story here. At least the men might like it

My wife does not and never did like my favorite grooming equipment as I smelled like her grandfather so I ended up with her buying Axe sh1t for the shower, Axe for deodorant, and Axe for the fvcking soap. Then she gets me an electric razor to use the last 5 or 6 years I have been using them and various ones as they are faster but I never once enjoyed them and hate the feel on my skin. And then we top off with an Axe or CK1 type cologne. Hate them all!!

Well I found a shoe box of some of my old Shaving equipment in the basement. My 170 dollar silver tip badger brush, Gillette safety razor, my Dr. Harris Arlington bath soap unopened and my classic Clubman barbershop smell aftershave and shave talc. Along with it found my Clubman scented shampoo. Still in fine shape. 

I threw the axe bullsh1t in the trash and threw the norelco electric shavers in a box to be donated. I have never felt so refreshed. After the shower, I whipped up a nice lather on the brush with the shave soap, put in a fresh feather blade, and did three glorious passes and hit my face with Clubman classic aftershave lotion. Do I care if I smell like an old man? No! I love it and she better like it cause that is what she is going to get for now on. 

Funny part is I understand this style of shaving has a cult following now. I ordered a stand for my equipment. 8 years ago those were expensive. And you know what......she has to look at it on top of the bathroom counter as I am NOT going to put it in the medicine cabinet. I also ordered the Merkur 34c razor, clubman shaving soap, and pre-shave oil.

Also going back to a different counselor. Found one that used to be a marine that my friend recommended. I was never in the military but I need to stay away from the female shrinks. My wife is more comfortable with females counselors. However I am going to do it my way and will keep this thread going as I move to the me I need and WANT to be. She accepts it and does more lifting, or she can go somewhere else.


----------



## TeddieG

alte Dame said:


> This is a true tragic love that you seem to feel, Augusto. When you love someone in such a way that it doesn't matter that she has bad character and damages you to your very soul. That is tragic.
> 
> You are only trapped by this love insofar as you let yourself be trapped, however. You can do the harder thing in the short term, which is file for divorce and start a new life for yourself. This is painful at the start, but I would bet the farm that you'd be much happier in the long run.


You know, I REALLY like this quote. It is really nice when someone acknowledges that love is real. I loved my h and still do and always will, but I love him in spite of the things he's done, or if he has bad character (I never thought he did, but I could be wrong). 

What I'm realizing, and maybe it is because I'm ready to hear it and hope Augusto is too, that one great value of doing the 180 right away and working on ourselves is because 9.5 times out of 10, a cheating spouse who wants to come back is not likely to do the work to truly reconcile. Mine never did. He'd come home when he thought he was done with OW, but the two times I really thought we were reconciling, he chafed at having to leave his phone open without a password, and make his Facebook public. He wasn't ready to reconcile. If I'd known years ago that I needed to put the time and effort into my survival and less into trying to save the marriage singlehandedly, I think I'd be further along. Hell, we may as well put the time and effort into ourselves because our cheating spouses are not likely to put their time into OUR marriage. But for some reason I couldn't bring myself to accept that; I felt the real guy was in there somewhere, trying to get out.


----------



## TeddieG

Thundarr said:


> Ironic but common. It's easy to be sorry and to want another chance and to have some kind of regret. But remorse is more than that. Remorse is that plus having the stones to do the heavy lifting. Most waywards feel sorry or guilty or regretful but only waywards who take that extra step of remorse are capable of their part of actual reconciliation.


This is another concept and distinction I wish I had understood sooner. @Augusto, I wasted 7 years on a phony reconciliation. Don't be me. Be smarter!


----------



## TeddieG

Augusto said:


> You guys/gals are absolutely right. I need to go back to me being me and not what she wants me to be or what she had. I started somewhat last night. I will go back to the gym Wednesday as I am helping my parents move next few evenings. But I will start with my my grooming. I used to love wet shaving, showers, and classic aftershaves. Fun story here. At least the men might like it
> 
> My wife does not and never did like my favorite grooming equipment as I smelled like her grandfather so I ended up with her buying Axe sh1t for the shower, Axe for deodorant, and Axe for the fvcking soap. Then she gets me an electric razor to use the last 5 or 6 years I have been using them and various ones as they are faster but I never once enjoyed them and hate the feel on my skin. And then we top off with an Axe or CK1 type cologne. Hate them all!!
> 
> Well I found a shoe box of some of my old Shaving equipment in the basement. My 170 dollar silver tip badger brush, Gillette safety razor, my Dr. Harris Arlington bath soap unopened and my classic Clubman barbershop smell aftershave and shave talc. Along with it found my Clubman scented shampoo. Still in fine shape.
> 
> I threw the axe bullsh1t in the trash and threw the norelco electric shavers in a box to be donated. I have never felt so refreshed. After the shower, I whipped up a nice lather on the brush with the shave soap, put in a fresh feather blade, and did three glorious passes and hit my face with Clubman classic aftershave lotion. Do I care if I smell like an old man? No! I love it and she better like it cause that is what she is going to get for now on.
> 
> Funny part is I understand this style of shaving has a cult following now. I ordered a stand for my equipment. 8 years ago those were expensive. And you know what......she has to look at it on top of the bathroom counter as I am NOT going to put it in the medicine cabinet. I also ordered the Merkur 34c razor, clubman shaving soap, and pre-shave oil.
> 
> Also going back to a different counselor. Found one that used to be a marine that my friend recommended. I was never in the military but I need to stay away from the female shrinks. My wife is more comfortable with females counselors. However I am going to do it my way and will keep this thread going as I move to the me I need and WANT to be. She accepts it and does more lifting, or she can go somewhere else.


:toast::yay::yay::yay::bounce:

Good for you! Can't wait to follow your renewal here.


----------



## happyman64

Augusto

I like your shaving plan.

As I was catching up on your thread I kept thinking to myself "when will Augusto get it through his head that he can be the guy "he" wants to be. When will he come to the realization that he is "his" own Plan A."

Start being you again. It is great that you actually still love your wife after all the crap she has put you through.

But there is absolutely no reason why you cannot be happy in life while still being married to the Queen of Selfishness.

Be the leader of your family. Be the husband you want to be. Be the Man!

I assure you in time your wife will come to realize that you will be happy with her or without her.

And that is when your Plan A will truly take effect.

HM


----------



## snerg

Augusto said:


> She said she never thought an affair would effect me like it has. *She said in her mind while she was having it that she would always be able to come back if she didn't like the other man anymore. *If that is the mentality of a cheater, reality must be a real b!tch!


This is an amazing statement.

It shows the self centeredness that the cheater has.

This would have made me stop all reconciliation and walk away, *NEVER* looking back


----------



## ThePheonix

Well ya Snerg! A cheater is nothing more than someone who don't really care for you anymore but doesn't what to burn their bridges and close their options. (think of them as the person who stores a piece of unwanted furniture in the attic rather than throwing it away)


----------



## BetrayedDad

Augusto said:


> My opinion is anyone that ate the sh!t sandwich to stay married and raise their children will always have changes no matter who that person used to be.


TRUELY REMORSELESS.

The thing about being a fool is it's not a permanent affliction. You can stop being one ANYTIME you want. You hold all the power to fix this situation and start healing from the resentment. She might even start respecting you a little after you finally stop putting up with her sh!t. You sold your soul to stay with this vile person.

Divorce her NOW!


----------



## Jeffery

This is an example of why a man should not ever R with a ww


----------



## Augusto

Jeffery said:


> This is an example of why a man should not ever R with a ww


My wife is reading this thread....she says for you to fvck off lol


----------



## Adelais

Why is your wife reading your thread?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Ahhhh...... well that explains those angrily deleted threads back when I joined.


----------



## Marc878

Augusto,

Since your wife is reading your thread I'd just like to say there are way better out there man!!! >


----------



## 3putt

LOL....this isn't gonna end well.


----------



## jigga114

Augusto said:


> My wife is reading this thread....she says for you to fvck off lol


LOL. Well that escalated quickly!

If your wife is actually reading this thread, how honest do you feel you can be about how you really feel without starting drama on the home front?

Thanks for the laugh though.


----------



## LosingHim

Augusto said:


> You guys/gals are absolutely right. I need to go back to me being me and not what she wants me to be or what she had. I started somewhat last night. I will go back to the gym Wednesday as I am helping my parents move next few evenings. But I will start with my my grooming. I used to love wet shaving, showers, and classic aftershaves. Fun story here. At least the men might like it
> 
> My wife does not and never did like my favorite grooming equipment as I smelled like her grandfather so I ended up with her buying Axe sh1t for the shower, Axe for deodorant, and Axe for the fvcking soap. Then she gets me an electric razor to use the last 5 or 6 years I have been using them and various ones as they are faster but I never once enjoyed them and hate the feel on my skin. And then we top off with an Axe or CK1 type cologne. Hate them all!!
> 
> Well I found a shoe box of some of my old Shaving equipment in the basement. My 170 dollar silver tip badger brush, Gillette safety razor, my Dr. Harris Arlington bath soap unopened and my classic Clubman barbershop smell aftershave and shave talc. Along with it found my Clubman scented shampoo. Still in fine shape.
> 
> I threw the axe bullsh1t in the trash and threw the norelco electric shavers in a box to be donated. I have never felt so refreshed. After the shower, I whipped up a nice lather on the brush with the shave soap, put in a fresh feather blade, and did three glorious passes and hit my face with Clubman classic aftershave lotion. Do I care if I smell like an old man? No! I love it and she better like it cause that is what she is going to get for now on.
> 
> Funny part is I understand this style of shaving has a cult following now. I ordered a stand for my equipment. 8 years ago those were expensive. And you know what......she has to look at it on top of the bathroom counter as I am NOT going to put it in the medicine cabinet. I also ordered the Merkur 34c razor, clubman shaving soap, and pre-shave oil.
> 
> Also going back to a different counselor. Found one that used to be a marine that my friend recommended. I was never in the military but I need to stay away from the female shrinks. My wife is more comfortable with females counselors. However I am going to do it my way and will keep this thread going as I move to the me I need and WANT to be. She accepts it and does more lifting, or she can go somewhere else.


This just makes me sad. 

I LOVE the way my husband smells. The night I met him he was wearing Curve cologne in the green bottle. I have bought him several bottles over the years because it's how HE smells. 

I could tell you what deodorant was his if you lined 10 up and did a blind sniff test. 

Sometimes when I'm shopping alone, if they have Curve in the green bottle as a tester, I'll pick it up and smell it, just so I can smell HIM when were not together.

I could tell you which of the 8 pillows we have on our bed is his by smelling it alone. 

It makes me sad that your wife doesn't like YOUR smell. My husbands smell is comforting. It feels like home.

I fully intend to steal a well worn shirt the day I move out, just so I can smell it when I miss him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

Augusto said:


> My wife does not and never did like my favorite grooming equipment as I smelled like her grandfather so I ended up with her buying Axe sh1t for the shower, Axe for deodorant, and Axe for the fvcking soap. Then she gets me an electric razor to use the last 5 or 6 years I have been using them and various ones as they are faster but I never once enjoyed them and hate the feel on my skin. And then we top off with an Axe or CK1 type cologne. Hate them all!!


She's been emasculating you for a long time OP. Slowly transforming you into a beta she can cuckold.



Augusto said:


> Well I found a shoe box of some of my old Shaving equipment in the basement. My 170 dollar silver tip badger brush, Gillette safety razor, my Dr. Harris Arlington bath soap unopened and my classic Clubman barbershop smell aftershave and shave talc. Along with it found my Clubman scented shampoo. Still in fine shape.
> 
> I threw the axe bullsh1t in the trash and threw the norelco electric shavers in a box to be donated. I have never felt so refreshed. After the shower, I whipped up a nice lather on the brush with the shave soap, put in a fresh feather blade, and did three glorious passes and hit my face with Clubman classic aftershave lotion. Do I care if I smell like an old man? No! I love it and she better like it cause that is what she is going to get for now on.


You should of burned that garbage on the lawn. Axe... really?!? If cheating isn't bad enough then the cheap taste she has in grooming products should be a crime in itself.


----------



## Augusto

BetrayedDad said:


> She's been emasculating you for a long time OP. Slowly transforming you into a beta she can cuckold.
> 
> 
> 
> You should of burned that garbage on the lawn. Axe... really?!? If cheating isn't bad enough then the cheap taste she has in grooming products should be a crime in itself.



Lol the soap I use runs 18 bucks a bar. Perhaps that is why she switched me to that teenage sh1t.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Augusto said:


> Lol the soap I use runs 18 bucks a bar. Perhaps that is why she switched me to that teenage sh1t.


My 12 and 15 year old boys like Axe.

My hb does not. 

A difference between men and boys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Augusto

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Why is your wife reading your thread?


I have nothing to hide from her. She knows I come here and knows my sig I go by. She said she reads often how you guy say I should divorce her. Though she is afraid to engage she gets angry reading stuff so she backs away and does not come here too much. I don't come here to hide. I mean white rose and chris were here for a bit. Not sure what ever happened to them but I think White rose understood things from people here.


----------



## Augusto

lifeistooshort said:


> My 12 and 15 year old boys like Axe.
> 
> My hb does not.
> 
> A difference between men and boys.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 What do you expect when you see commercials with hot chicks trying to hump a sewer pole because a man is showering with axe a few floors above.


----------



## Adelais

Augusto said:


> I have nothing to hide from her. She knows I come here and knows my sig I go by. She said she reads often how you guy say I should divorce her. Though she is afraid to engage she gets angry reading stuff so she backs away and does not come here too much. I don't come here to hide. I mean white rose and chris were here for a bit. Not sure what ever happened to them but I think White rose understood things from people here.


If she is reading your thread, start writing that you are tired of her attitude, and that you are going to D her in the near future. 

She knows you aren't going to ever leave her and that is why she has no motivation to change.

(If you ever type that you are going to leave her, and she is still reading your threads, PM me and I'll take this off, so she doesn't think that you are typing that just because someone suggested it.)


----------



## TAMAT

Augusto,

Is your inability to recover due to...

* not getting the full truth about what happened, did you polygraph your W to determine if their are other affairs, or if this affair was more extensive more and sexual than she has admitted to?

* are you still living in the same house, same area which can reinforce the horrible memories.

* how close does the OM live to you, or the OMs family, or people who know the OM. This can keep you triggered indefinitely.

* did you ever confront the OM or expose him widely facebook, linkedin, family, work and church. In so far as you seem to be a betrayed husband who blames his wife more than the OM, he still has a role in this and there has to be consequences for him. Your W has no say in protecting the OM or remaining loyal to OM.

* your older children should be told what happened so they don't blame themselves for the condition of your marriage. You also need the support of people around you, you need to tell your in-laws and your parents and extended families.

Tamat


----------



## jsmart

If you're wife's reading this thread, her reaction should be to look inside herself to find out what it is that she's doing wrong that is causing her husband to post about his frustrations on an infidelity board. 

Cursing the posters doesn't make your pain lessen. Doesn't strengthen you into the man that she desires. She sends a message that your concerns and your crushed spirit are not important. All that matters is you keep your pain to yourself and entertain her.


----------



## workindad

lifeistooshort said:


> My 12 and 15 year old boys like Axe.
> 
> My hb does not.
> 
> A difference between men and boys.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same in my house as well.


----------



## Augusto

Marc878 said:


> Augusto,
> 
> Since your wife is reading your thread I'd just like to say there are way better out there man!!! >


Thx a lot....she thinks you are referring to men.:frown2:


----------



## workindad

Augusto said:


> She said the other day she really misses the fun loving husband she used to have before her affair. She said I am not the man she married. She said I have turned into a very cynical person with a short fuse and wants "old me" back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She said she never thought an affair would effect me like it has. She said in her mind while she was having it that she would always be able to come back if she didn't like the other man anymore. If that is the mentality of a cheater, reality must be a real b!tch!


As for the first part- do you miss the old you? If yes, you can thank her for killing that guy off and let her know how you feel.

As for the second part she sounds like an entitled spoiled rotten immature brat. 

Good luck with her, she clearly doesn't see that what she did was that big of a deal. That means she'll most likely do it again only try to be kinder by hiding it better.


----------



## TAMAT

Augusto,

BTW using your WW as an IC is like finding out your therapist is also your rapist.

Tamat


----------



## Marc878

Augusto said:


> Thx a lot....she thinks you are referring to men.:frown2:


Hahahahahaha nope, she's in the denial phase.

Other women will be drooling over your new cologne!!!!

:wink2:


----------



## LosingHim

I think my husband reads my thread but I'm not sure. He's made vague comments that make me think he has, but I'm not sure.

Part of me kind of hopes he does, the other part of me kind of likes being able to "vent" in private.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais

LosingHim said:


> I think my husband reads my thread but I'm not sure. He's made vague comments that make me think he has, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Part of me kind of hopes he does, the other part of me kind of likes being able to "vent" in private.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LosingHim, I hope he is reading your thread and seeing how sorry you are, and that you have changed.

At the same time, I hope you can let him go and move on with your life. Now that you know better you will make a good wife for someone.


----------



## LosingHim

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> LosingHim, I hope he is reading your thread and seeing how sorry you are, and that you have changed.
> 
> At the same time, I hope you can let him go and move on with your life. Now that you know better you will make a good wife for someone.


Thank you. 

Problem is, I don't want to be "someone's" wife, I want to be HIS. 

But I know in the end, whatever's meant to be will be and I'll be ok. Someday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Augusto

TAMAT said:


> Augusto,
> 
> BTW using your WW as an IC is like finding out your therapist is also your rapist.
> 
> Tamat


Who said I am doing this?


----------



## Augusto

workindad said:


> As for the first part- do you miss the old you? If yes, you can thank her for killing that guy off and let her know how you feel.
> 
> As for the second part she sounds like an entitled spoiled rotten immature brat.
> 
> Good luck with her, she clearly doesn't see that what she did was that big of a deal. That means she'll most likely do it again only try to be kinder by hiding it better.



I am not sure who that guy really was anymore. Like a person without an identity.


----------



## Augusto

Marc878 said:


> Hahahahahaha nope, she's in the denial phase.
> 
> Other women will be drooling over your new cologne!!!!
> 
> :wink2:



Knock it off there is no other woman.


----------



## TAMAT

Augusto,

You did not say that, I made that comment because you said your WW is disturbed that you post here, one of the few places you have support.

Tamat


----------



## Augusto

TAMAT said:


> Augusto,
> 
> You did not say that, I made that comment because you said your WW is disturbed that you post here, one of the few places you have support.
> 
> Tamat


Oh metaphor....sorry


----------



## Wazza

ConanHub said:


> That was not judging in the sense you are phrasing it.
> 
> My post was an accurate assessment of your situation from an objective point of view that you, understandably can't have.
> 
> Reconciliation for children is usually, almost every time, a bad choice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I respectfully disagree. You admit a bias in that you believe reconciliation for children is usually, almost every time a bad choice. How is your advice an objective judgement vs a statement of your opinion?

There is no doubt in my mind that, if you can really reconcile, the kids are better off. It doesn't take much research to find objective, quantifiable evidence that kids from broken homes have measurably lower outcomes in life. 

Where I think it gets less clear is if the marriage remains toxic, and I have no data on that. Just a theory that, if you don't fix the problems, you are merely delaying the breakup.

To reconcile, to have to be able to get past what has happened, and have a basis for building something new with your wife, and it's not easy. I think it depends on the personalities of the man and woman involved, and why infidelity came into the marriage in the first place. 

25 years past our little episode, and the kids all adults now. But I am still with her, and happy it was the right decision. It's not for everybody, but I am not the only one I know in that position.


----------



## Wazza

jsmart said:


> I would advise that you work on being a better man across the board. Your confidence took a beating and you obviously haven't recovered. You have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and heal yourself because your wife can't heal you.
> 
> Get in the gym working out hard. Go take up boxing or a martial art. Take up a manly hobby that gets you outdoors around other men. Fishing, hunting, shooting a gun a range, paintballing, mud running, mountain or road biking, kayaking, ETC.
> 
> In other words get in touch with your masculine side. Being a husband and father can feminize us. Get busy finding your inner warrior. It's a quest worth pursing. You'll like yourself more and will be able to be a strong father for your kids. Once you're whole again, you'll be able to R from a position of strength or D without fear.


This is great advice if the specifics here reflect who you really are. 

I don't do most of the things on this list, and I could care less whether someone wants to classify my interests and behaviours as masculine or feminine. But what I did after my wife's affair was focus on being true to who I was, and be myself. I enjoy her company, but I don't validate my existence through her, and I am prepared to end the marriage if necessary. Getting to that point was what allowed me to heal.

The last two sentences in the quotes describe where you need to be perfectly.


----------



## bigfoot

Am i the only one who finds it really sad that the way that a grown man tries to validate himself is too dig out his old shaving equipment and aftershave?

This makes the entire story make sense. Your wife reads your thread, too? 

Wow.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Augusto said:


> How long does it take? Is it based on level of betrayal? I have not asked anything from her lately. I don't want her feeling remorseful and crap because I don't want her fvcking pity and crying and crap like that. I want her to be busy and not think about it as is effects the kids negatively. It was like that before. I do not want it. Shrink could be right though. I would feel this way the rest of my life with any woman. So my opinion is might as well be this one as damage is probably permanent. Who knows as only time will tell. To this day I do not know what I did wrong. She said I did everything right and I am not at fault....She's damn fvcking right about that!!! But it doesn't help me clear out the mind movies and nightmares. Not fair to another woman either if I was to get a different wife for me to wake up in the middle of the night with clammy hands because the one person I gave my all to was fvcking another man in my dreams. But I do not want another wife either so let me make that perfectly clear.


You were ruptured and building a new reality personally and relationally takes two to five years depending on the level of trauma, personal past and personality, level of commitment to work on both parties. For the record, I don't hear full recognition of your pain in your wife. I think the smartest thing you are doing right now is being raw with you pain in front of her. Hurt openly and make no apology for it. Do not spare her, she didn't spare you. She needs to see its full monty. It will be the ONLY thing that will mature her to the point of never ever wanting to do that to another human being as long as she lives, because it IS devastating and it IS permanent. You are facing hard work, so she can just suck it up and learn to work with it or leave. She doesn't get off scott free, lightly or without consequence. It sucks large and I'm sorry you were put in this position. You have every right to say .... this sucks to hell and back. Would I ever want to go through it again. NO. But, I did find my voice. As a survivor of abuse... that is priceless. I pray you find that *one thing* that though you had to go through hell to get it, it becomes the gift to you out of the flames. All the best to you Augusto.


----------



## convert

Augusto said:


> My wife is reading this thread....she says for you to fvck off lol


Well then she needs to understand that infidelity changes a person forever.
the betrayed spouse *never ever* forgets.

the betrayed spouse may forgive but to forget is not going to happen.


----------



## convert

Augusto said:


> I have nothing to hide from her. She knows I come here and knows my sig I go by. *She said she reads often how you guy say I should divorce her. Though she is afraid to engage she gets angry reading stuff so she backs away and does not come here too much*. I don't come here to hide. I mean white rose and chris were here for a bit. Not sure what ever happened to them but I think White rose understood things from people here.


To wish you and your children to be dead

most here could not come back from that


----------



## Jeffery

Humility. Cheating is about entitlement. Being truly sorry is about humility. That means the cheater doesn?t go first in anything for a loooong time. Their grievances about the marriage, for instance. Their ?healing.? (Grieving the affair partner? Give me a ****ing break.) Remorse is the cheater recognizing their place on the food chain ? which is grovel level for as long as the chump needs it. That means a chump?s grief is not met with dismissive anger. That means there are no false equivalencies. (Well, you suck too!) True remorse is a deep awareness that infidelity broke a sacred trust, and you are not owed reconciliation.

2. Initiative. Real remorse books its own shrink appointments. Real remorse does the homework. Real remorse does not need to be cajoled, wheedled, or dragged by its ear. Real remorse buys the books and reads the books. GINR waits for you to do it, and then finds a very good reason to be too busy.

3. Honesty. You can?t cheat on someone without lying to them. Real remorse spits out the truth. All of the truth, and it doesn?t editorialize and say things like ?she really needed me? or ?he was just a friend.? Real remorse answers the same questions over and over and over again and gives truthful, consistent answers. (None of which is ?I don?t know.?) If real remorse doesn?t know, real remorse does whatever it can to find out. Real remorse doesn?t balk at a polygraph. GINR thinks polygraphs are expensive and unreliable. Real remorse will do whatever it must to give you peace of mind even if real remorse thinks it?s pointless.

4. Patience. Real remorse understands that repairing a relationship after infidelity is a long haul with dubious prospects. GINR wants to you to ?get over it? already because hey, it said it was sorry.

5. Ownership. See Humility. Real remorse wears the shame. Real remorse takes responsibility for the fallout. Real remorse is okay if you tell people, because you need the support. GINR wants you to protect its image. GINR blame shifts and says ?we all brought issues to this marriage that led me to cheat.? GINR minimizes and obfuscates.

6. Recompense. Real remorse understands that reconciliation is a risky investment. GINR wants you to assume all that risk and how dare you ask for any assurances, because don?t you trust me? Real remorse puts its money where its mouth is with a post-nup with an infidelity clause. A completely useless document if the cheater never cheats again, which of course, only the cheater has control over. Real remorse pays your legal bill. Real remorse compensates you and your children for every dime spent on the affair(s). Real remorse recognizes that there are financial and time losses as real as the emotional ones. Time and heartbreak cannot be recompensed. Money can. Real remorse says, it?s the least I ca


----------



## Jeffery

So what do you see as missing?


----------



## Jeffery

No, trust can never be rebuilt. Once someone shows what they are actually capable of, there is no going back. There is no rebuilding, there is no trusting again. If you truly want to find a deep, intimate and trusting relationship, that line of cheating can never be crossed. I am a realist and know that the level of intimacy would never be fulfilled after the cheating occurred. I feel I deserve that love & commitment because I return 100% the same to my partner and it's beautiful. 
I could never reach that level with some one who thinks its ok to violate me in that way. I feel cheating is the same as someone putting a gun to my head. It's deadly and life treating. I felt she had threatened my life by the chance of bringing home a disease that could kill. Don't be a fool to the manipulation of others. There are sick people out there that enjoy toying with others emotions and life. Cheating is a sign that you have one of these people in your life. Stand up for yourself if you feel abused or done wrong in anyway. Move on with your life, there are many wonderful people out there that will stay true.


----------



## ConanHub

LOL! Sure. We can all fvck off but we didn't make vows with you, start fvcking an idiot until he broke it off and wished you were dead so we could keep right on fvcking the OM.

What the hell has she done to come back from that performance?

Dracula isn't even that low.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

My last post was not really helpful, I apologize. My point, though poorly stated was that you need to do a whole lot for yourself. Shaving and aftershave is just done to agitate her and is really an insignificant statement of identity and is a poor statement about your self worth if that is the best you can do.

You need to exist for you. You need to be happy for you. Once you are complete and occupying the world as a man and person due respect then you can be someone that your kids can emulate and someone that is a co-equal partner.

Right now, your statement of who you are still involves her. Heck, you are never going to be happy because now that you know that is what she seems to want, you can resist being that as a way to get back at her.


----------



## imjustwatching

Ok i saw a lot of your posts and saw your story and i have 1 or 2 questions :
Is THIS happening to you in Real life?!! Thiis so bizarre after all of what she said and done you stayed with her?!!! it's must be really weird living with someone like her... i try to picture you in my head as a person in real life but i just can't !!


----------



## Kobold

jsmart said:


> Go look at the threads on Loveshack's OW section. You'll read thread after thread of cheating wh0res pining after some POS that used them as a free prostitute. Not word of remorse for the husband that they betrayed or their children's family life they put in jeopardy. Just long list of their husbands shortcomings and how much they struggle not being in their POS's bed again. Some even describe how they're repulsed by their husbands touch. That's where your wife's head is at.


Reading the OW/OM forum on LS is probably the most honest and detailed tour into the mind of an active cheater you could possibly hope to find and it's a large part of why I roll my eyes at all this "fog" bullsh*t I hear so much about. Those MW on LS sure as hell don't sound all that foggy to me, they sound like they know exactly what the hell they're doing to their husbands and children while they practically beg for the OM's table scraps.



Augusto said:


> My wife is reading this thread....she says for you to fvck off lol


Meh, you wished your loved ones dead so you could continue your affair, there's literally nothing anybody here could say that would ever bring us down to your level Mrs. Augusto. 



bigfoot said:


> Am i the only one who finds it really sad that the way that a grown man tries to validate himself is too dig out his old shaving equipment and aftershave?
> 
> This makes the entire story make sense. Your wife reads your thread, too?
> 
> Wow.


No you're not the only one who didn't take that as a huge positive step forward. It made me feel even more awful for the OP.


----------



## ConanHub

Did she wish her kids dead as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CTPlay

Good luck to you OP. 

I truly hope that it works out for you.


----------



## JohnA

Careful posting on LS. They really do resist posters challenging WS. I saw one thread pulled because the poster asked the WW to explain her action to her husband and children if her adultery was discovered in 6 months. The poster then asked why she and OM didn't just divorce before hand. One moment it was there the next it was gone,


----------



## Augusto

Jeffery said:


> So what do you see as missing?



Hard to explain.....let me try this way. I used to do a lot of kind-hearted stuff. For example one of my hobbies is building up bicycles. I would take a old beater bike and upgrade it with better parts and make it a smooth bike. I would spend my own money on them and then just give them away to the poorer kids in the neighborhood. It made me feel good and I enjoyed the community involvement. An example along with this would be when a 10 year old who I had given a Trek bicycle to a month prior came to me crying about his bicycle. I asked him what was wrong and he said it is perfect and loves to ride it since it is so smooth. What was happening was his mom who is a single mother was selling is bike. I asked if he was in trouble and he said no. He said his mother needed money for rent. I went on one knee in front of him and said "sometimes in life we need to make sacrifices for things that are more important.....you having a roof over your head and food to eat is far better than having a bicycle." So I set him up with a bicycle he can ride all of the time but he had to store it in my shed. He only lived 4 doors down. I used to be that kind of guy.

Now unless it's my kids....I don't give a rats a$$!!!! I built 7 last year. Guess what?....still in my basement and all mine!!! And if another lady did the same thing to her boy with a bike I gave him, I'd cuss the b!tch out!!!


----------



## Augusto

ConanHub said:


> Did she wish her kids dead as well?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes


----------



## lifeistooshort

Seems like most of the focus is on her affair, which I get is damaging and hard to come back from, but in this case I think her wishing you dead is a much bigger deal. That says a lot about her.

I hated my ex's guts at certain points and never wished him dead, even though it could be argued that not having to deal with him would have made my life easier.

I just don't see how one comes back from that, especially when you know om dumped her.

You are a paycheck and security, nothing more. 

I get that it might be best for your kids, just think long and hard about whether that's really true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Augusto said:


> yes


Gotta go now.

I have zero tolerance, AND I MEAN FVCKING ZERO TOLERANCE, for anyone who harms or wishes harm on children, especially their own so they can fvck their affair partner!!!!!!

Get your kids away from this monster!

Best wishes. Stop trying to make a wife out of a gargoyle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

Augusto said:


> yes


Pure evil, sir. Time to remove yourself and kids.


----------



## MarriedTex

Augusto said:


> Hard to explain.....let me try this way. I used to do a lot of kind-hearted stuff. For example one of my hobbies is building up bicycles. I would take a old beater bike and upgrade it with better parts and make it a smooth bike. I would spend my own money on them and then just give them away to the poorer kids in the neighborhood. It made me feel good and I enjoyed the community involvement. An example along with this would be when a 10 year old who I had given a Trek bicycle to a month prior came to me crying about his bicycle. I asked him what was wrong and he said it is perfect and loves to ride it since it is so smooth. What was happening was his mom who is a single mother was selling is bike. I asked if he was in trouble and he said no. He said his mother needed money for rent. I went on one knee in front of him and said "sometimes in life we need to make sacrifices for things that are more important.....you having a roof over your head and food to eat is far better than having a bicycle." So I set him up with a bicycle he can ride all of the time but he had to store it in my shed. He only lived 4 doors down. I used to be that kind of guy.
> 
> Now unless it's my kids....I don't give a rats a$$!!!! I built 7 last year. Guess what?....still in my basement and all mine!!! And if another lady did the same thing to her boy with a bike I gave him, I'd cuss the b!tch out!!!


Sorry that your troubles have put that old Augusto on the shelf. What a loss. I would've liked to hang with that guy.


----------



## Doc Who

Augusto,

Look, I know it is your life and all, but PLEASE tell me how you can honestly love someone who wanted YOUR children dead? This one, I cannot fathom. That is ***kin evil. Seriously. She might be the best looking, smartest, richest woman on earth and I can say categorically - you can find someone better in 10 microseconds.

I suggest you get to that IC in a hurry and figure out how you can look past that she wanted you and your kids dead. It is NOT healthy, no matter how much you think she has changed and didn't mean it and all the rationalizations that you are feeding yourself to stay.

Not healthy at all.


----------



## turnera

Augusto said:


> My wife is reading this thread....she says for you to fvck off lol


Is she joking?


----------



## turnera

Wazza said:


> This is great advice if the specifics here reflect who you really are.
> 
> I don't do most of the things on this list, and I could care less whether someone wants to classify my interests and behaviours as masculine or feminine. But what I did after my wife's affair was focus on being true to who I was, and be myself. I enjoy her company, but I don't validate my existence through her, and I am prepared to end the marriage if necessary. Getting to that point was what allowed me to heal.
> 
> The last two sentences in the quotes describe where you need to be perfectly.


If I was going to recommend a book for betrayed husbands to read, it would be Hold On To Your N.U.T.s. It's not about betrayal, but it's got great stuff about how to figure out what your CORE is. Who you are. What matters. What you want to spend the rest of your life doing. And it's an easy read.


----------



## Adelais

I wonder how many WS's have secretly wished their spouses and children dead, but the BS didn't find out because the WS didn't text it or say it out loud so it could be recorded?


----------



## Augusto

bigfoot said:


> Am i the only one who finds it really sad that the way that a grown man tries to validate himself is too dig out his old shaving equipment and aftershave?
> 
> This makes the entire story make sense. Your wife reads your thread, too?
> 
> Wow.


That was just the start my friend. The next one is I am going to have my SUV lifted 6 inches and have Pirelli mud boggers put on it. I am also moving forward with my man cave\home theater project. 120 inches baby! Am am going to work on this instead of the sewing room project for the wife. Trying to get it ready for the bulls to run over Manning at his last rodeo.


----------



## Augusto

turnera said:


> Is she joking?


No


----------



## turnera

Then I would have no tolerance for her.


----------



## Augusto

turnera said:


> Then I would have no tolerance for her.


I don't....no one said I did for her


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You are still there, you love her and are attempting to reconcile so, you do have tolerance for her. Yes, even if you stay there just for your kids, you still tolerate and have a tolerance for her.


----------



## just got it 55

just got it 55 said:


> Augusto You also have to live with the "New Her" as you now know what she is capable of
> 
> I would start the next discussion with that opening statement.
> 
> 55


Quote:
Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post
Did she wish her kids dead as well?
Posted via Mobile Device

Quote: by Augusto
yes

I was wrong nobody knows what she is capable of

The only word I can use to describe the foul evil woman is treacherous

treach·er·ous
ˈtreCH(ə)rəs/
adjective

guilty of or involving betrayal or deception.
"a treacherous Gestapo agent"
synonyms:	traitorous, disloyal, faithless, unfaithful, duplicitous, deceitful, deceptive, false, backstabbing, double-crossing, double-dealing, two-faced, Janus-faced, weaselly, untrustworthy, unreliable; More
(of ground, water, conditions, etc.) hazardous because of presenting hidden or unpredictable dangers.


Augusto there can be no return from this

55


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You want me to die, meh I can maybe get past that because I am an a-hole. Wishing our kids dead, there is no fog excuse thick and oppressive enough to make me stay with someone who said something that hateful.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You want me to die, meh I can maybe get past that because I am an a-hole. Wishing our kids dead, there is no fog excuse thick and oppressive enough to make me stay with someone who said something that hateful.


That would be my deal beaker.


----------



## convert

ConanHub said:


> Gotta go now.
> 
> I have zero tolerance, AND I MEAN FVCKING ZERO TOLERANCE, for anyone who harms or wishes harm on children, especially their own so they can fvck their affair partner!!!!!!
> 
> Get your kids away from this monster!
> 
> Best wishes. Stop trying to make a wife out of a *gargoyle.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think a gargoyle would be more appealing in this case:surprise:


----------



## Openminded

Shaking my head. 

Loving someone doesn't mean they are good for you. You should let her go.


----------



## LosingHim

Look, I LOATHE my ex husband. He beat the snot out of me often.

I've never wished him dead.

A couple of years ago, he died on the table three times - pancreatitis. They stabilized him. And he wasn't expected to live.

I prayed for him every single day, and I'm agnostic.

I begged the heavens (or whatever they are) above not to take him.

There have been times I've thought "ugh, I wish he'd get hit by a bus" but faced with him actually dying? I prayed for his life. For his wife, his parents and my children. 

Consequently, his father threw himself on top of my ex husband and begged God to take him instead. My ex husband survived. His father died less than 6 months later 3 weeks after being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. 

My point is, I didn't wish death on someone I HATE. I don't know how you can live with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

As you drive in your raised truck smelling of clubman aftershave feeling good about yourself, remember she wished your kids dead. Then, when you inevitably leave your kids alone with her, as you leave them, look in their trusting eyes and say, "I'm leaving you with one person on this planet who wished you were dead. " 

I don't even begin to comprehend the level of dysfunction in your life, before you met her, that has allowed you to stay. 

Having handled murder cases involving children when I was a prosecutor, I have no good words for you right now. I will say this, until she has been evaluated by a psychiatrist to determine whether she is a risk to any child, she should not be around them. Real talk: once you can voice a wish for your own child's death, your own death, or someone with whom you have a relationship, there is a major problem.


----------



## Doc Who

Augusto,
I get that you do not want to respond to what you must be seeing as excessive criticism of you regarding your WW's soulless comments about wishing your children dead. It is hard to face it, but you must. Maybe not here on a message board, but you HAVE to ask yourself why you are still with someone that could do it.

It is not normal.

It is not fog.

It is flash red light in the darkness that is warning you that she is going to bring more pain into your life. Potentially fatal pain.

Why are you ignoring it?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

What an entitled princess you have on your hands Augusto. I haven't read any of your other threads, but glad to hear that you are doing things for yourself for a change. If your wife doesn't like it, she can always go away and find some schlong smacker to be with that smells like the AXE products...

Only *********s and kids wear AXE from what I have seen.


----------



## Augusto

bigfoot said:


> As you drive in your raised truck smelling of clubman aftershave feeling good about yourself, remember she wished your kids dead. Then, when you inevitably leave your kids alone with her, as you leave them, look in their trusting eyes and say, "I'm leaving you with one person on this planet who wished you were dead. "
> 
> I don't even begin to comprehend the level of dysfunction in your life, before you met her, that has allowed you to stay.
> 
> Having handled murder cases involving children when I was a prosecutor, I have no good words for you right now. I will say this, until she has been evaluated by a psychiatrist to determine whether she is a risk to any child, she should not be around them. Real talk: once you can voice a wish for your own child's death, your own death, or someone with whom you have a relationship, there is a major problem.



Yes but I can go places she won't be.


----------



## Augusto

Doc Who said:


> Augusto,
> I get that you do not want to respond to what you must be seeing as excessive criticism of you regarding your WW's soulless comments about wishing your children dead. It is hard to face it, but you must. Maybe not here on a message board, but you HAVE to ask yourself why you are still with someone that could do it.
> 
> It is not normal.
> 
> It is not fog.
> 
> It is flash red light in the darkness that is warning you that she is going to bring more pain into your life. Potentially fatal pain.
> 
> Why are you ignoring it?


I am ignoring nothing.....this morning she woke me up cry telling me how sorry she is. She has been cutting herself with a cutting wheel over her decisions. She is now accepting the fact that this is the new me. I told her that if I feel like I am not much better in a few years, we would be better to split. I have stayed true to my vows. If she cannot make me feel those are worth keeping for the rest of my life, it's over. But to tell you the truth, I do not think I could ever be with another woman. I used to love the idea and the institution of marriage. I just never thought this would happen. The same thing with the om's wife. Her and I have met for lunch a few times to go over options to set boundaries for our spouses. We felt like we were having to oversee stupid kids and find ways to ground them. She eventually had a revenge affair on him last year. She said he was more than devastated and acted as if he was allowed and she was to never do it since she is the mom. What the fvck is that!? He has affairs with 3 different women and played mind games with all of them including my wife.


----------



## Augusto

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What an entitled princess you have on your hands Augusto. I haven't read any of your other threads, but glad to hear that you are doing things for yourself for a change. If your wife doesn't like it, she can always go away and find some schlong smacker to be with that smells like the AXE products...
> 
> Only *********s and kids wear AXE from what I have seen.


It wasn't that....just simplified with product for the boys and product for the girls.


----------



## Augusto

I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.

"Dear ********,

I am not sure on where to start. But I am ready to move on with my life. I want it to be with you. I have fallen hard for you and cannot go back to love my husband because I am in love with you. I know we both have children and are currently married but I am willing to leave my husband if you are willing to leave your wife. I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt. The only way for that is for us to be together and to divorce our spouses. 

I promise to take care of you. The thought of going back to my husband and not having you causes me to be scared. I have been lying to him, my children, and family and could never face him because I am afraid of hurting him. He did not deserve what is about to happen to him. But the thought of not having you hurts even worse for me. I am sure he will move on just like your wife would. This is about us and our future together. I know we can make this work. I am more than willing to make you happy in loving you and giving you the best sex ever. Including blowjobs like you received from me the other night. I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want. I want to not only be your future wife but your sexual partner for life and all aspects of it. Want me to suck you off again tonight? 

All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry. I am not worried about my husband. He will raise the children without me and they are better off. I do not want to be in that home and want to be with you. If you decide that this cannot happen, this all needs to end now and I will be forced to tell my husband everything. I am not sure if he would even take me back. At this point I do not deserve to return and that is another reason you and I need to be together. How is your wife going to take the news of me? Have you considered that? We can avoid and spare our family's the pain if we just come clean and divorce amicably so you and I can be happy with each other. I will take care of you in all areas of our lives. I just need to know where your mind is when it comes to me. Do you love and care about me? Please let me know if I need to start gathering my belongings.

Love Always
*******"


----------



## Satya

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.
> 
> "Dear ********,
> 
> I am not sure on where to start. But I am ready to move on with my life. I want it to be with you. I have fallen hard for you and cannot go back to love my husband because I am in love with you. I know we both have children and are currently married but I am willing to leave my husband if you are willing to leave your wife. I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt. The only way for that is for us to be together and to divorce our spouses.
> 
> I promise to take care of you. The thought of going back to my husband and not having you causes me to be scared. I have been lying to him, my children, and family and could never face him because I am afraid of hurting him. He did not deserve what is about to happen to him. But the thought of not having you hurts even worse for me. I am sure he will move on just like your wife would. This is about us and our future together. I know we can make this work. I am more than willing to make you happy in loving you and giving you the best sex ever. Including blowjobs like you received from me the other night. I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want. I want to not only be your future wife but your sexual partner for life and all aspects of it. Want me to suck you off again tonight?
> 
> All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry. I am not worried about my husband. He will raise the children without me and they are better off. I do not want to be in that home and want to be with you. If you decide that this cannot happen, this all needs to end now and I will be forced to tell my husband everything. I am not sure if he would even take me back. At this point I do not deserve to return and that is another reason you and I need to be together. How is your wife going to take the news of me? Have you considered that? We can avoid and spare our family's the pain if we just come clean and divorce amicably so you and I can be happy with each other. I will take care of you in all areas of our lives. I just need to know where your mind is when it comes to me. Do you love and care about me? Please let me know if I need to start gathering my belongings.
> 
> Love Always
> *******"


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Praying for the protection of you and your children Augusto.


----------



## jsmart

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.
> 
> "Dear ********,
> 
> I am not sure on where to start. But I am ready to move on with my life. I want it to be with you. I have fallen hard for you and cannot go back to love my husband because I am in love with you. I know we both have children and are currently married but I am willing to leave my husband if you are willing to leave your wife. I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt. The only way for that is for us to be together and to divorce our spouses.
> 
> I promise to take care of you. The thought of going back to my husband and not having you causes me to be scared. I have been lying to him, my children, and family and could never face him because I am afraid of hurting him. He did not deserve what is about to happen to him. But the thought of not having you hurts even worse for me. I am sure he will move on just like your wife would. This is about us and our future together. I know we can make this work. I am more than willing to make you happy in loving you and giving you the best sex ever. Including blowjobs like you received from me the other night. I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want. I want to not only be your future wife but your sexual partner for life and all aspects of it. Want me to suck you off again tonight?
> 
> All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry. I am not worried about my husband. He will raise the children without me and they are better off. I do not want to be in that home and want to be with you. If you decide that this cannot happen, this all needs to end now and I will be forced to tell my husband everything. I am not sure if he would even take me back. At this point I do not deserve to return and that is another reason you and I need to be together. How is your wife going to take the news of me? Have you considered that? We can avoid and spare our family's the pain if we just come clean and divorce amicably so you and I can be happy with each other. I will take care of you in all areas of our lives. I just need to know where your mind is when it comes to me. Do you love and care about me? Please let me know if I need to start gathering my belongings.
> 
> Love Always
> *******"


How you took this woman back is beyond me. She wanted to not only abandon you but her own children so she could with this incredible man. 

The reason you're here is because this R is crushing your spirit. Knowing what she did, said, and wrote combined with her actions since then tell you that you're plan B. Her actions tell you she's just luke warm for you. It kills your inner spirit that you're forgiving so much and are receiving so little. Hence why you're posting here.

That letter exposes how desperately your wife wanted this man. This guy had everything on the her menu with promise of more but he rightly saw that she's not a keeper. How you can read those words today and still believe she''s worth enduring all this heartache is ...


----------



## imjustwatching

Augusto said:


> . I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt.
> I am more than willing to make you happy in loving you and giving you the best sex ever. Including blowjobs like you received from me the other night. I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want.


I'm 80% sure that this poster is just enjoying his cuckold fantasies here by writing this fantasy story . and i hope i'm wrong because this is getting really disgusting....


----------



## jld

People can say crazy, terrible things in the fog that they later deeply regret, Augusto. You say she is remorseful. You may want to consider extending some grace here.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Augusto said:


> I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want.


So...that's pretty romantic. Do you have the same courtesy today that was extended to the OM?


----------



## jld

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So...that's pretty romantic. Do you have the same courtesy today that was extended to the OM?


Would he want it if it were only "extended as a courtesy"?


----------



## jsmart

jld said:


> Would he want it if it were only "extended as a courtesy"?


As a woman, I don't think you understand the extreme pain that a man feels knowing that your wife did things with her affair partner that her husband was turned down for. I thank God I've never experienced anything like this but I could imagine what that would feel like. 

To woman, the emotional part is the more important part. That's why you hear so many WWs tell their husband "It was only sex, it didn't mean anything." To men, the physical is EVERYTHING.


----------



## turnera

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.
> 
> "Dear ********,
> 
> I am not sure on where to start. But I am ready to move on with my life. I want it to be with you. I have fallen hard for you and cannot go back to love my husband because I am in love with you. I know we both have children and are currently married but I am willing to leave my husband if you are willing to leave your wife. I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt. The only way for that is for us to be together and to divorce our spouses.
> 
> I promise to take care of you. The thought of going back to my husband and not having you causes me to be scared. I have been lying to him, my children, and family and could never face him because I am afraid of hurting him. He did not deserve what is about to happen to him. But the thought of not having you hurts even worse for me.


Disgusting. I sure hope this wasn't her No Contact letter that you should have insisted on.

If it was, just for all the readers out there, this is exactly why we tell people to create a No Contact letter that the BETRAYED spouse first reads, and sends himself. So she can't go all romance novel on the OM. Now she has this romantic notion in her head that she 'had to let him go' and that she's now a martyr and will get to spend the rest of her life a shattered woman, ripped out of the arms of her true love by her selfish husband.

Gag me.

And Augusto, I assume she didn't TELL you that she wrote him a love letter like that, correct? In other words, she continues to lie to you. You're just the more convenient and pragmatic choice for HER, in financial and reputation terms.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

jsmart said:


> The reason you're here is because this R is crushing your spirit. Knowing what she did, said, and wrote combined with her actions since then tell you that you're plan B. ..


Let's do him a favor, we should stop calling this R and reconciliation. He may love her, but his logical mind is breaking because he KNOWS he's in limbo again.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Disgusting. I sure hope this wasn't her No Contact letter that you should have insisted on.
> 
> If it was, just for all the readers out there, this is exactly why we tell people to create a No Contact letter that the BETRAYED spouse first reads, and sends himself. So she can't go all romance novel on the OM. Now she has this romantic notion in her head that she 'had to let him go' and that she's now a martyr and will get to spend the rest of her life a shattered woman, ripped out of the arms of her true love by her selfish husband.
> 
> Gag me.
> 
> And Augusto, I assume she didn't TELL you that she wrote him a love letter like that, correct? In other words, she continues to lie to you. You're just the more convenient and pragmatic choice for HER, in financial and reputation terms.



I dunno T. A woman telling her OM she'll let him do her up the poop shoot is the kind of romance most guys dig.


----------



## Tron

A,

If this stuff is still so raw and painful for you after 4 years, why are you still in the marriage and why won't you consider alternatives?

Do you like it?


----------



## Adelais

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.
> 
> "Dear ********,
> 
> Blah...blah...blah....blah,
> 
> drivel....drivel....blah...blah...
> 
> *Please let me know if I need to start gathering my belongings.*
> 
> Love Always
> *******"


Augusto's response should have been:

"Honey, start gathering your belongings. And please sign these divorce papers while you are at it."


----------



## jnj express

She was willing for you, and the children she brought into this world with you to be dead, and it would have been fine with her-------but from the tone of the letter----sex is what drove her---not a mature love----not the kind of love that gets you thru 40 to 50 yrs of mge., and into your golden years, where you really do DEPEND on each other, for you----it is time to get out 

Your kids will make it---based on this letter, you probably could get full custody anyway-----what MOTHER, wishes her kids to be dead so she can give her lover a BJ


----------



## TAMAT

Augusto,

Thanks for posting that, I suspect my W sent OM-1 a letter like that, but it is likely I will never know. I know that that kind of desperation is common especially when a WW has a lukewarm OM on her hands, who is about to dump her anyway.

Tamat


----------



## LosingHim

bandit.45 said:


> I dunno T. A woman telling her OM she'll let him do her up the poop shoot is the kind of romance most guys dig.


I find my husband prefers I word it a little more eloquently. 

I just ask him if he wants to play Sneaky Butcher that night 

(sneaking the meat in the back door)

Gets his romantic juices flowing every time.


(This is pure sarcasm by the way)


----------



## Augusto

imjustwatching said:


> I'm 80% sure that this poster is just enjoying his cuckold fantasies here by writing this fantasy story . and i hope i'm wrong because this is getting really disgusting....



Excuse me?!?! This was written by my wife to this man. I wish I did write it, It would have been kinder. But much of this letter I see everyday in my mind. Everyday for the last 2 1/2 years. It sucks!!


----------



## Augusto

jnj express said:


> She was willing for you, and the children she brought into this world with you to be dead, and it would have been fine with her-------but from the tone of the letter----sex is what drove her---not a mature love----not the kind of love that gets you thru 40 to 50 yrs of mge., and into your golden years, where you really do DEPEND on each other, for you----it is time to get out
> 
> Your kids will make it---based on this letter, you probably could get full custody anyway-----what MOTHER, wishes her kids to be dead so she can give her lover a BJ



She was all over the place then. She isn't now....but damage done!


----------



## Augusto

Tron said:


> A,
> 
> If this stuff is still so raw and painful for you after 4 years, why are you still in the marriage and why won't you consider alternatives?
> 
> Do you like it?


 It's been 2 1/2 or so....shrink says I need more time......lots more


----------



## Augusto

bandit.45 said:


> I dunno T. A woman telling her OM she'll let him do her up the poop shoot is the kind of romance most guys dig.


Not this one man....Never Ever! I want no part of me in a place where **** is exited. A guy at worked talked about that last week. I pointed to some cattle fields where he can put his thing in as much cow crap as he wants.


----------



## Augusto

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Let's do him a favor, we should stop calling this R and reconciliation. He may love her, but his logical mind is breaking because he KNOWS he's in limbo again.


We are both trying but sometimes I need an outlet.


----------



## Augusto

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So...that's pretty romantic. Do you have the same courtesy today that was extended to the OM?



I don't do raunchy back door tricks!!! Not my thing.


----------



## Augusto

jld said:


> People can say crazy, terrible things in the fog that they later deeply regret, Augusto. You say she is remorseful. You may want to consider extending some grace here.


I am trying!!


----------



## GusPolinski

Plan 9 from OS said:


> *So...that's pretty romantic.* Do you have the same courtesy today that was extended to the OM?


:lol: :rofl:


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> It's been 2 1/2 or so....shrink says I need more time......lots more


How old is your youngest child?


----------



## Augusto

LosingHim said:


> Look, I LOATHE my ex husband. He beat the snot out of me often.
> 
> I've never wished him dead.
> 
> A couple of years ago, he died on the table three times - pancreatitis. They stabilized him. And he wasn't expected to live.
> 
> I prayed for him every single day, and I'm agnostic.
> 
> I begged the heavens (or whatever they are) above not to take him.
> 
> There have been times I've thought "ugh, I wish he'd get hit by a bus" but faced with him actually dying? I prayed for his life. For his wife, his parents and my children.
> 
> Consequently, his father threw himself on top of my ex husband and begged God to take him instead. My ex husband survived. His father died less than 6 months later 3 weeks after being diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer.
> 
> My point is, I didn't wish death on someone I HATE. I don't know how you can live with this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I truly am sorry a man put hands on you to inflict bodily harm. As much as I has been beaten on my heart, I still would never lay a hand on my wife. It's just something I will not do. Now as for the other man, he needed some dental work and a new job after I met him at his work parking lot and clocked him one after I paper bombed all of the cars with the kind of character and person he is. I was told 90% of the women refused to work with him so they had to let him go. He threatened to sue me for defamation. My reply was his neighborhood was my next stop. He did not think I had a lawyer. I told him my lawyer has all of the emails and chat logs from him to my wife. He was angry that she did not delete them. So he then backed away. Empty threat!!!


----------



## Augusto

GusPolinski said:


> How old is your youngest child?


just turned 3 two days ago


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.


Can't quite bring myself to quote that filth-filled missive, but I'll say this...

Augusto, you're not winning your wife any fans here.


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> just turned 3 two days ago


Uhhh... and D-Day was 2-1/2 years ago...?

Do I REALLY need to say it?


----------



## LosingHim

@Augusto I’ve said before that I cheated. And I lied about it for 3 years. And it was with my husbands best friend. While my transgression wasn’t a long drawn out affair, it was still pretty damn sleazy and low.

And this letter just makes my stomach turn.

Not just the part about wishing you and your kids dead (although that’s gotta be the worst part). Is your wife’s personality generally that……..abrupt? Direct? To the point? Juvenile? I read that letter like coming from someone with a mental issue or a love struck teenager that doesn’t know what real love and real life is. I don’t know how to really explain it. And the sexual explicitness of it is just so over the top. It comes across like she’s very often sexually promiscuous.

Look, I’m very sexually liberated, experimental, open…..I can be as dirty as a porn star if I want to be. And my husband and I have gotten into some pretty heavy sexting over the years. But all I can read from your wifes letter is “would you like to treat me like a wh*re?” “Would you like to degrade and humiliate me?” “I will offer you to use and abuse my body because that’s all I’m worth”. It’s just DISTURBING. Almost as if she knew he didn’t really want her so she was offering to wh*re herself to get him to stay.

This letter is not only disgusting, it’s DISTURBING. She does not sound healthy at all. 

I don’t know how you’re living with this. I really think you need to get out.


----------



## Doc Who

Augusto said:


> just turned 3 two days ago


Am I reading this wrong, or was this child conceived smack in the middle of her affair?


----------



## bandit.45

Augusto said:


> Excuse me?!?! This was written by my wife to this man. I wish I did write it, It would have been kinder. But much of this letter I see everyday in my mind. Everyday for the last 2 1/2 years. It sucks!!


Your WW is one crude, nasty lady then.

What is it about her that you find so appealing that you would stay with her? 

I hope this letter puts you over the hump.


----------



## Doc Who

Augusto,
I think you are either missing my point or just don't want to address it. I get that you have taken action. I also get that come hell or high water, you have decided to stay with her. But you don't seem to get that YOU are not healthy. You have had to do some serious mental gymnastics to rationalize staying with a person who WISHED DEATH ON YOUR CHILDREN. Fog or no fog, that is disordered. And you sir, have just rugswept that away.

Again, not healthy.

I am willing to bet you a lot of money that if you find a good IC, explore the real reasons you are clinging to a person who is clearly disordered and clearly, at one point in her life, wanted death for her own children, your eyes would be opened. Something in you has accepted a behavior that should never be accepted. You need to fix yourself. I am not trying to be mean, but I say this with love and respect. You need to fix it to be the best father you can be and to live a more healthy life.


----------



## Kobold

Augusto said:


> I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry.


What does Mrs. Augusto have to say about this aspect of her affair nowadays? By that I mean the fact that she not only wished her kids dead, but that she was ready to abandon them for the purpose of becoming a mother to the OM's kids. 



jld said:


> People can say crazy, terrible things in the *fog *that they later deeply regret, Augusto. You say she is remorseful. You may want to consider extending some grace here.


There's that word again...



turnera said:


> Disgusting. I sure hope this wasn't her No Contact letter that you should have insisted on.
> 
> If it was, just for all the readers out there, this is exactly why we tell people to create a No Contact letter that the BETRAYED spouse first reads, and sends himself. So she can't go all romance novel on the OM. Now she has this romantic notion in her head that she 'had to let him go' and that she's now a martyr and will get to spend the rest of her life a shattered woman, ripped out of the arms of her true love by her selfish husband.


In fairness to Augusto, I don't think a NC letter would have made any difference here. This is not the norm for affairs as far as I know. This woman was ready and willing to abandon her own children and never see them again just for the privilege of being the OM's personal sperm receptacle. She's literally begging him in that letter to give her the go ahead to leave her family with promises of never ending BJ's and anal. I don't think any of the common advice that's handed out here could even begin to make a dent in this situation.


----------



## jigga114

Wow, just wow. You sir must be made of different stuff. Does your WW know how lucky she is that you even considered staying together after you read that letter? I was under the impression that she only wished you and your children dead (as if that in itself is not unspeakable enough), but the cherry on this giant f*ck you cake is that she was willing to raise OM's as if they were her own. She offered to give up the children of her own flesh for sexual thrills. No wonder OM ran, because I do not mean to offend, but this letter makes your WW seem unhinged. The desperation dripping from this letter is another thing that made him run. The whole, I will suck your d*ck and let you put it in my pooper if you just love me vibe is beyond juvenile and pathetic. How old are you and your wife OP?

What did your WW say when she knew you had seen this letter? I would love to hear how she tried to rationalize this. Personally speaking, I may be able to forgive my W for wishing me dead during her A. It's super sh*tty, but at least I could chalk that one up to the fog of the A. Wishing my children dead though is a bridge too far. Offering to abandon her own children and raise another man's children just indicates that your WW has no concept of what love is. How this letter did not trigger an insta-divorce is beyond my understanding. How your WW can look you in the eye everyday in the aftermath of this letter is also beyond me. She can cry all the tears in the world, but that would not move me.

I have read a lot of people's stories, but I must concede, this may be the worst. Betrayal on this level should be criminal. When your kids are older, you may want to tell them about WW's A, but whatever you do, do not ever tell them about this letter or that mommy was willing to throw them away like pieces of trash. There is no way to come back from that. Good luck OP, and I normally tell people to stay strong, but you are clearly stronger than me.


----------



## TAMAT

Augusto, 

I think the fact that you gave OM a beating and exposed him goes very far in explaining how you were able to recover as much as you have given the circumstances.

Had I taken care of OM-1 like that 20+ years ago I wouldn't be were I am now. 

You mentioned the OM had other women he was running with, please do their husbands a favor and dime him out, perhaps they will do some of your work for you.

Tamat


----------



## Yeswecan

Augusto said:


> I found the "love letter"......thought it was deleted.....oh well...this was her final Hail Mary.
> 
> "Dear ********,
> 
> I am not sure on where to start. But I am ready to move on with my life. I want it to be with you. I have fallen hard for you and cannot go back to love my husband because I am in love with you. I know we both have children and are currently married but I am willing to leave my husband if you are willing to leave your wife. I promise you it will be fulfilling and enjoyable. I dream of us being able to be intimate and having sex without any guilt. The only way for that is for us to be together and to divorce our spouses.
> 
> I promise to take care of you. The thought of going back to my husband and not having you causes me to be scared. I have been lying to him, my children, and family and could never face him because I am afraid of hurting him. He did not deserve what is about to happen to him. But the thought of not having you hurts even worse for me. I am sure he will move on just like your wife would. This is about us and our future together. I know we can make this work. I am more than willing to make you happy in loving you and giving you the best sex ever. Including blowjobs like you received from me the other night. I will even let you put your **** in my ass if you want. I want to not only be your future wife but your sexual partner for life and all aspects of it. Want me to suck you off again tonight?
> 
> All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry. I am not worried about my husband. He will raise the children without me and they are better off. I do not want to be in that home and want to be with you. If you decide that this cannot happen, this all needs to end now and I will be forced to tell my husband everything. I am not sure if he would even take me back. At this point I do not deserve to return and that is another reason you and I need to be together. How is your wife going to take the news of me? Have you considered that? We can avoid and spare our family's the pain if we just come clean and divorce amicably so you and I can be happy with each other. I will take care of you in all areas of our lives. I just need to know where your mind is when it comes to me. Do you love and care about me? Please let me know if I need to start gathering my belongings.
> 
> Love Always
> *******"


She has some deep seated issues. You need to call it a day on this one.


----------



## Evinrude58

Yeswecan said:


> She has some deep seated issues. You need to call it a day on this one.


If that's real, then it's the saddest, completely heartless, coldest, most shameful thing I've read in a while.

If you take that woman back, you deserve what you get.
Divorce her and find a person worth loving. Any woman that would tolerate losing her kids and wishing them dead is beyond hope for anyone but God.


I just read back a couple of pages and see that you've taken this woman back???????????????????????????

This has got to be the biggest case of bs I've ever heard. You CANNOT let this "woman" around your children!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is a DANGEROUS lunatic! She wishes her kids DEAD for the sake of being with another man! 
If you do this, you will regret it for the rest of your life. There is no way to mend a relationship with someone that is this devoid of conscience.


----------



## turnera

What does she say NOW about that letter? You have discussed it, right? You have no marriage if you won't discuss it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Evinrude58 said:


> She wishes her kids DEAD for the sake of being with another man!
> .


See, I had a little rant, but decided not post it. This bothers me more and more. Especially, considering the gender specific aspect of the comment.


----------



## ConanHub

Gack! I came back and read part of her love letter!

Shudder.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## workindad

Evinrude58 said:


> If you take that woman back, you deserve what you get.
> Divorce her and find a person worth loving. Any woman that would tolerate losing her kids and wishing them dead is beyond hope for anyone but God.
> 
> 
> .




I agree. Getting back with this piece of parental and marital trash is asking for trouble for you and your children.

*Any parent wishing death for their their child is unfit.*



Also, paternity test your 3 year old. That should be obvious based on the timelines you have provided. This is cheap, painless and private.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Augusto said:


> I don't do raunchy back door tricks!!! Not my thing.


Fair enough. The question remains, does she offer you the same opportunities that the OM was given? Are there things you would like to engage in that are off the table for you but wasn't for OM?


----------



## just got it 55

Evinrude58 said:


> If that's real, then it's the saddest, completely heartless, coldest, most shameful thing I've read in a while.
> 
> If you take that woman back, you deserve what you get.
> Divorce her and find a person worth loving. Any woman that would tolerate losing her kids and wishing them dead is beyond hope for anyone but God. Any God that I would want to believe in would kick her to the curb
> 
> 
> I just read back a couple of pages and see that you've taken this woman back???????????????????????????
> 
> This has got to be the biggest case of bs I've ever heard. You CANNOT let this "woman" around your children!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is a DANGEROUS lunatic! She wishes her kids DEAD for the sake of being with another man!
> If you do this, you will regret it for the rest of your life. There is no way to mend a relationship with someone that is this devoid of conscience.


The part I can't get my head around is 
He kept this M intact for the children Think on that Augusto

Mercy

55


----------



## bigfoot

Augusto said:


> Yes but I can go places she won't be.


What in the Sam Hill does this mean? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Did you read what I wrote and you quoted?


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Without giving too much information to us, what kind of issues are you exploring with your IC? Best wishes!


----------



## Evinrude58

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See, I had a little rant, but decided not post it. This bothers me more and more. Especially, considering the gender specific aspect of the comment.


This is rant-worthy stuff. If this letter is real, they are her true thoughts. She wishes she had no family so she could be with the OM.
Wishes her family dead. That shows no feeling for you or the kids. I knew my ex had zero feeling for me, but she still loves our kids.

You can't overlook this Augusto. You can't say this was fog. Her thoughts may be different now, but she still has made it clear that you're not what she really wants.
Rethink this woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Augusto

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... and D-Day was 2-1/2 years ago...?
> 
> Do I REALLY need to say it?


She's mine don't go there.


----------



## Augusto

Doc Who said:


> Am I reading this wrong, or was this child conceived smack in the middle of her affair?


No just before


----------



## Augusto

Evinrude58 said:


> If that's real, then it's the saddest, completely heartless, coldest, most shameful thing I've read in a while.
> 
> If you take that woman back, you deserve what you get.
> Divorce her and find a person worth loving. Any woman that would tolerate losing her kids and wishing them dead is beyond hope for anyone but God.
> 
> 
> I just read back a couple of pages and see that you've taken this woman back???????????????????????????
> 
> This has got to be the biggest case of bs I've ever heard. You CANNOT let this "woman" around your children!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is a DANGEROUS lunatic! She wishes her kids DEAD for the sake of being with another man!
> If you do this, you will regret it for the rest of your life. There is no way to mend a relationship with someone that is this devoid of conscience.


Well....it's called an affair for a reason. A private letter like this just happens to be extracted from a deleted sent folder in a email client.


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> She's mine don't go there.


If you're assured of that then that's fine.

Still, given the timeline, I'd urge you to get proof w/ respect to paternity.


----------



## Augusto

Ok....according the the IC I went to, letters like this are common and are the products of a full blown affair. He said this one is no different than others or confessions from WW's that he has seen. They are all pretty much same feelings and thoughts with those like my wife that suffer from hormone imbalances and depression. He said he could tell right away hormones raging with depression like she had can easily cause these feelings listed in the letter. He also pointed out some things I never paid attention to in it that basically told him that she was not trying to leave me for another man but leave me because she needed to make the best out of what she has ruined and has left. Like a road she started on and felt she had to continue because it was better for others due to some mistakes and she did not want to or did not have the strength to want to fix. Avoid all of the heavy lifting by trying to leave it. The death part was a signal to the other man that she only wanted him to exist. He said that was a mind game trick from her to him. Given the state of mind mixed with meds, he said this is not uncommon. He also said the anal sex thing that I have refused with her along with other kinky stuff I am not into is a major form of rejection to a woman....mix that with the depression and raging hormones are the ingrediance to a recipe of a sexual affair along with major feelings of resentment. All it takes is any man noticing her that she could be attracted to and she gets attached. Question for the doc was what the hell am I supposed to take in with all of this? His response was 3 months of sessions. 😩


----------



## Augusto

GusPolinski said:


> If you're assured of that then that's fine.
> 
> Still, given the timeline, I'd urge you to get proof w/ respect to paternity.


I already have all of the timeline...2 months after we got pregnant.


----------



## turnera

Augusto said:


> Question for the doc was what the hell am I supposed to take in with all of this? His response was 3 months of sessions. 😩


Surely he meant SHE needed 3 months of sessions. Right?


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> I already have all of the timeline...2 months after we got pregnant.


:slap:

Best of luck to you, Augusto.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Augusto said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're assured of that then that's fine.
> 
> Still, given the timeline, I'd urge you to get proof w/ respect to paternity.
> 
> 
> 
> I already have all of the timeline...2 months after we got pregnant.
Click to expand...

Verified with a poly? You hope but really do not know.

My wife always says, "Say what you mean and mean what you say"
So I'm the one she better not make a statement in jest or sarcasm because she will choke on those words. I will say if you did not mean it you would not have said it! Now live with the repercussion of your statements!


----------



## Augusto

turnera said:


> Surely he meant SHE needed 3 months of sessions. Right?


She has her own b!tch doc she sees.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Augusto said:


> I already have all of the timeline...2 months after we got pregnant.


Wow. No wonder you are having all of this turmoil. Your wife had an affair, promised to do things sexually with him not with you, wished you dead, then she wished your kids dead, your youngest is within the range of paternity fraud and your wife wants her old husband back when she cheated. 

Stress can kill you so, take care of yourself.


----------



## Evinrude58

Augusto said:


> Ok....according the the IC I went to, letters like this are common and are the products of a full blown affair. He said this one is no different than others or confessions from WW's that he has seen. They are all pretty much same feelings and thoughts with those like my wife that suffer from hormone imbalances and depression. He said he could tell right away hormones raging with depression like she had can easily cause these feelings listed in the letter. He also pointed out some things I never paid attention to in it that basically told him that she was not trying to leave me for another man but leave me because she needed to make the best out of what she has ruined and has left. Like a road she started on and felt she had to continue because it was better for others due to some mistakes and she did not want to or did not have the strength to want to fix. Avoid all of the heavy lifting by trying to leave it. The death part was a signal to the other man that she only wanted him to exist. He said that was a mind game trick from her to him. Given the state of mind mixed with meds, he said this is not uncommon. He also said the anal sex thing that I have refused with her along with other kinky stuff I am not into is a major form of rejection to a woman....mix that with the depression and raging hormones are the ingrediance to a recipe of a sexual affair along with major feelings of resentment. All it takes is any man noticing her that she could be attracted to and she gets attached. Question for the doc was what the hell am I supposed to take in with all of this? His response was 3 months of sessions. 😩


The only part I could agree with from your IC is that any man that gave her attention could have had her.

Saying this letter is common is utter bs. I could agree, but this woman doesn't want her kids and wished them dead so she didn't have to worry about them interfering with her life--- that's the part that makes it uncommon, I think. 

You don't need fixing, and I think a good IC would help you see that you are only staying with this woman out of fear of moving on ( I was guilty of that), and not true love. Ask yourself--- could you love a woman capable of writing that letter and having such disloyalty? Do you think this problem with her can be or is fixed? If not, stsying really isn't an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Be smart

I can see end of your story my friend.

Your wife is not to blame for her actions,YOU ARE. She did all those things and wished death to you and your kids because she was depresed,having weight problems,low self-estem,you are not great husband bla bla bla ...................

Your therapist and you are making excues for your wife,because you want to belive to things you wished and hope in your own head.

You said "she would never leave me" , well my friend she left you long time ago but you just dont want to see it.

You said "she is trying hard" no she is not. She is doing literally nothing,and she still blames you.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Phillybeff
> Wow. No wonder you are having all of this turmoil. Your wife had an affair, promised to do things sexually with him not with you, wished you dead, then she wished your kids dead, your youngest is within the range of paternity fraud and your wife wants her old husband back when she cheated.
> 
> Stress can kill you so, take care of yourself


Augusto is trying to take care of himself with his counselor. Listed below, in part, is what the counselor has told him.

Originally Posted by Augusto after couseling in regards to his wife’s actions:


> hormone imbalances and depression.
> 
> she was not trying to leave me for another man but leave me because she needed to make the best out of what she has ruined and has left
> 
> The death part was a signal to the other man that she only wanted him to exist. He said that was a mind game trick from her to him. Given the state of mind mixed with meds, he said this is not uncommon.
> 
> Question for the doc was what the hell am I supposed to take in with all of this? His response was 3 months of sessions. 😩


I do not know how much of the above from the counselor is true and how much are excuses but this I do know. Any married woman that will say that she wants her children dead so that she can betray her family and suck a d!ck and have that d1ck go up her azz has gone too far to try and R, IMO. Augusto, you may be a better man than I am but I would sure have an alternate plan for your life other than R. 

*I would advise you to get as self-sufficient as you can so that you can have a good life and take care of your children.* This looks like a case where you can only save one person; that will be either you or your wife; so you get to choose. If you think that you can save both I think you are fooling yourself. Three months of sessions is not enough; in addition to the sessions you are going to have to make some hard decisions and take some strong actions or you will be an emotional wreck!!


----------



## jsmart

Augusto said:


> Ok....according the the IC I went to, letters like this are common and are the products of a full blown affair. He said this one is no different than others or confessions from WW's that he has seen. They are all pretty much same feelings and thoughts with those like my wife that suffer from hormone imbalances and depression. He said he could tell right away hormones raging with depression like she had can easily cause these feelings listed in the letter. He also pointed out some things I never paid attention to in it that basically told him that she was not trying to leave me for another man but leave me because she needed to make the best out of what she has ruined and has left. Like a road she started on and felt she had to continue because it was better for others due to some mistakes and she did not want to or did not have the strength to want to fix. Avoid all of the heavy lifting by trying to leave it. The death part was a signal to the other man that she only wanted him to exist. He said that was a mind game trick from her to him. Given the state of mind mixed with meds, he said this is not uncommon. He also said the anal sex thing that I have refused with her along with other kinky stuff I am not into is a major form of rejection to a woman....mix that with the depression and raging hormones are the ingrediance to a recipe of a sexual affair along with major feelings of resentment. All it takes is any man noticing her that she could be attracted to and she gets attached. Question for the doc was what the hell am I supposed to take in with all of this? His response was 3 months of sessions. &#55357;&#56873;


This letter, though vulgar and extreme is probably how many WWs in the thick of their sexual PA, think. It gave you an unfiltered glimpse into his WWs head. If you read the threads from WWs on the OW section of LS, you'll see woman who are just as deeply far gone. One recent popular thread, "I am ruined", posted by WW of 16 years with 3 kids tells about her obsession for her MM. It to the point that she had a breakdown and was admitted to a mental hospital for a night.

So there is truth in what your IC told you but what is his advise to help you move forward. once again, I'm going to agree with @Mr Blunt . There has to be limits to what any man should have to forgive. Personally, I would have went straight to D, no passing go. But since you've chosen a different path and you so desperately want this marriage to work. You need to work on forgetting what you've read. But it's not enough to forgive and forget. Until you work on being a whole, complete and self reliant man, you're going to keep coming back every few months with more hurt until one day it will be your wife dumping you because of your weakness. 

So that is your homework. Work on being the best version of yourself. Become the man you want to be. The person that you can look in the mirror with pride.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Augusto, your counselor quite possibly is training you to condition yourself to accept abuse as normal. You are in a VERY precarious situation. I recommend switching counselors and get a second opinion.


----------



## ConanHub

Blossom Leigh said:


> Augusto, your counselor quite possibly is training you to condition yourself to accept abuse as normal. You are in a VERY precarious situation. I recommend switching counselors and get a second opinion.


Agree 100%!

Psychobabbled his way to rationalize a truly terrible woman's actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58

I'm not in full understanding of that letter, if it was a letter his wife wrote, or what. He says he pulled it out of some deleted junk file or something. I would have framed it and let it remind me of what my wife was truly capable of, until I had gotten over her and set my life back right.

Augusto,
This stuff CRUSHES a man's self esteem, self worth-- everything. I hope you realize that with technology and such, there are thousands of women that you could find to spend your time with. Almost anybody would be better than continuing your life with a person who is capable of writing such a letter. Your counselor is wrong about this. You and your kids deserve better.
I'm out. I hope you find happiness in whatever route you choose. It's your life. Having experienced infidelity myself, and still wanting to stay married, I just feel I understand what you're feeling. And I know how hard it is to let your hopes and dreams of a complete family slip away. But, it was out of my control. I wish you could see that this woman doesn't love you. The only reason she's still there is the OM bailed. There WILL be another OM. I 100% believe this. You will be forced to accept an open marriage while you get lousy or no sex, and no love. Or you will be forced to divorce after she has had a chance to ruin you further financially and emotionally. 
Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EI

Augusto, I was the WS in my marriage. After 27 years of marriage, and 5 children, (3 biological, 2 adopted) I had a 15 month EA/PA with an old flame from my teens. I openly admitted here on TAM, as well as to my BS, that I was no longer in love with my BS long before my A ever began. I won't go into my lengthy story on your thread, because it is already well documented on TAM. I will simply say that with the deplorable state of my marriage, pre-A, and the even worse state of it upon my husband's discovery of my A, that our marriage may have been one of the least likely candidates for reconciliation that TAM has ever dissected. 

With that said, we have been very happily reconciled, almost 4 years now, and we continue to grow closer every day. But, what I think you should know, is that even though I did experience what many TAMers refer to as the _"fog,"_ when those feel-good endorphins, that are created at the onset of a new relationship, have an extremely powerful effect one's emotions, I *NEVER* wished any harm, much less death to B1, (my BS) and most certainly not to our precious children, who were far from being innocent and helpless little babies, like yours. Our youngest was almost 16.

I cannot fathom, save for the possibility of your wife having a complete psychotic breakdown, brought on by post partum depression, any mother ever even suggesting that she would abandon her children, including a newborn, and then promising to be a good mother to her AP's children. It's incomprehensible.

I haven't read your entire thread, just bits and pieces, so I apologize if the possibility of postpartum psychosis has already been addressed. Was it ever addressed, and if so, was she treated for it? 

I completely disagree with the therapist's statement that what your wife wrote in that letter was _common and are the products of a full blown affair._ I was no longer in love with, nor did I have any remaining respect for my husband, by the time my A began. And, I had developed very strong feelings of attachment towards my AP. I was most definitely having a full blown A, including the desire to share my future with my AP. But, I could not, and would not, ever wish any harm on my spouse, the father of my children, and a man who I had once loved with every ounce of my being. 

I do believe that hormonal changes and imbalances can have an affect on our emotions. But, that does not justify using them as an excuse for allowing our emotions to override our logic when it comes to judgement. Save for a complete psychotic breakdown, that was followed by intensive psychotherapy and medication, I would have a very difficult time, if not find it impossible, to move forward with my spouse after learning that he had wished death upon me. I could not have remained married to my spouse if he had wished death upon our children. Even if the sentiment had been made only in jest, which didn't appear to be the case with your wife. 

I cannot imagine telling my AP that I would be a good mother to his children, after having just stated that I wished my own children were dead. 

My heart genuinely goes out to you and your children. I don't even know what to think about your wife. I honestly believe that she must be mentally ill. My heart actually goes out to her, as well.


----------



## jim123

It is good to see EI posting again helping out yet another poster.

What is critical in the EI/B1 story is home much they helped each other heal.

Augusto, we can not tell you why she did what she did. What makes R possible is what she does afterward.

EI came on this board and took the most flack any poster has on TAM but stayed so she can continue to help B1 heal, help her M heal and help herself heal.

The fact she is not willing to change herself, the fact that is she not taking out all stops to help you heal and your M should be your biggest concern.

What EI became was the wife that B1 would have been foolish to give up. No one would ever love B1 more than EI does.

Keep in mind that B1 also improved himself and became the husband EI deserved.

Every M can be fixed regardless of the past is both parties are all in. The future must be worth the risk and pain of the past.

That is the miracle of EI and B1.


----------



## Kobold

Augusto said:


> Ok....according the the IC I went to, letters like this are common and are the products of a full blown affair. He said this one is no different than others or confessions from WW's that he has seen. They are all pretty much same feelings and thoughts with those like my wife that suffer from hormone imbalances and depression.


I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with your counselor on this one. I've read a ton of WW stories before where they admit to all kinds of awful sh*t that could potentially induce vomit even on the strongest among us and your wife is the only one I've ever heard of who wished her children would just die already so she could give some creep nasty porno sex. 

I mean I've seen WW's openly admit to leading their BH to go down on them(unknowingly) at the behest of their OM who had just ravaged them shortly before. I've heard of BH's getting bled dry by their WW with help from the family court system while being forced into weekend dad status, but I can honestly say that until I read your story I had never once heard of a WW wishing death upon her own children, let alone while promising to raise her OM's kids. 

I'm not saying it's never happened before, but it would have to be an extremely rare aspect of an affair(bordering on unheard of) due to the fact that this forum is filled to the brim with people who've either been cheated on, have cheated on somebody else or at the very least have read about countless scenarios of infidelity and we all(just about) had the same stunned reaction to her letter. 

Some people are even claiming that you're a troll due to how over the top that letter is. Think about that for a moment, people find her behavior so unfathomably vile that they cannot accept that anybody could actually say and do such things or that somebody would continue to stay married to such a person. If that doesn't prove that this is a one in a million scenario, then I don't know what possibly could.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me *wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead.* I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children.



Augusto, I reprinted part of your wife’s letter to her married AP because I am shocked at such a state of mind that your wife had/has. It is very hard to fathom.

I am often pro-R as I have over 20+ years of R myself. However, your wife has gone to such a deep level of evil that I cannot understand you being with her for one minute. It is your call to make if you want to R but I hope that if you do R that you will keep us informed so that others can learn from your situation. Some say that she can recover and get a lot better but I would be so very frightened of a person that could turn on her innocent children. Your wife reminds me of Susann Smith

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

Augusto, you may not know EI very well but she has been on this forum for many years and has laid out her story very well and very transparent about her betrayal. I know EI and B1 by this forum and some other forms of communication. EI has had to suffer a LOT more than just the affair pain and she stuck by her children even when the pain was almost as much as Job that is in the Bible. I am sure that EI has suffered a lot more than your wife yet she not once wished her children dead. Almost everyone loves EI and we all are encouraged by her and her outstanding husband B1. They show that the human spirit can overcome just about anything. 

Augusto, your wife is not even in the same universe as EI and your wife has gone past the point of being salvageable IMO. I say this because *I would hate to see you have your life destroyed and not be able to be a great help to your children.* If you stay with this extremely damaged woman you will have a wretched and destroyed life. JMO


----------



## Doc Who

Augusto,

Do you know why you are have come to TAM? I am guessing it is because you know something is SERIOUSLY wrong. You SEEM to have accepted the faulty conclusion your IC gave you about your wife as gospel. I admit, some of what your wife wrote the AP in that horrific letter is typical affair nonsense. But wanting to kill her kids? That is not depression. I have treated a number of clinically depressed women who have confessed out of the blue that they were engaged in adultery, and NONE of them ever expressed any desire to kill their children. Of the ones expressing any ideas of wanting to harm - it was always ALWAYS self-harm. These women all felt their families would be better off without them.

The fact that you so easily have accepted that her wanting to kill her children was just affair nonsense is troubling. It is not normal. It is not healthy. IT IS NOT SAFE.

Please seek the services of another mental health care professional.

Your rationalization of this situation is disturbing.


----------



## 3putt

Mr Blunt said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith


That was over 20 years ago and, as a native South Carolinian, I still can't get over that. Second only to the Pee Wee Gaskins killing spree, the most heinous act we've ever witnessed in this state. At least in my lifetime and opinion anyway.

If there is a hell, I truly hope she burns in it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Ugh... I remember that case.


----------



## jim123

There is something very serious inside of her. You need a new IC as that her thoughts are nothing to dismiss. 

Her IC is required by law to report her if she is a treat to anyone.

It is one thing if she wished you dead by very much another when if included her children.

Has her IC addressed this with her IC. I do not remember you saying she also wished the kids dead too.

Take this very serious. Push the issue with both IC's. The law is very clear.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

3putt said:


> That was over 20 years ago and, as a native South Carolinian, I still can't get over that. Second only to the Pee Wee Gaskins killing spree, the most heinous act we've ever witnessed in this state. At least in my lifetime and opinion anyway.
> 
> If there is a hell, I truly hope she burns in it.


Sadly, it was the first thing I thought of when he confirmed she wished her kids dead.


----------



## 3putt

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sadly, it was the first thing I thought of when he confirmed she wished her kids dead.


Crossed mine as well, but I hate thinking like that. Just too downright evil for me to digest, even in just thought.


----------



## EI

3putt said:


> That was over 20 years ago and, as a native South Carolinian, I still can't get over that. Second only to the Pee Wee Gaskins killing spree, the most heinous act we've ever witnessed in this state. At least in my lifetime and opinion anyway.
> 
> If there is a hell, I truly hope she burns in it.


This case popped into my mind when I read Augusto's post. I was pregnant with our youngest son when it happened in the Fall of 1994. I was only a few months along, very sick, and extremely hormonal. I was already emotional, but this story threw me over the edge and into a bout of extreme depression. I couldn't get it off of my mind. So, when we learned a month later that we were having a boy, we decided to honor those boys by incorporating one of their names into our son's name. We ended up giving our youngest son the same middle name that Susan Smith's youngest son had. 

There are some stories that are so painful to comprehend that you never forget where you were or how they made you feel when you first learned about them. This was one of those stories. 

Augusto, your wife's letter to her AP wishing you and your children dead, coupled with the fact that she doesn't even remotely seem to understand the gravity of what her A has done to you, means that she will never be able to assist you in your healing. It won't get better because she is waiting for YOU to make HER feel better. She wants you to make her feel better by being the husband you used to be, the husband you were before she betrayed you and wished you and your children dead, so she could have guilt free sex with her married AP. How many lives was she willing to destroy and/or eliminate just to have guilt free sex with her AP?

This is not common behavior, not unless you actually wish your husband and children dead.


----------



## ConanHub

I feel like throwing up. Is that a healthy response to this thread or just a trigger?

Maybe a bit of both?

I feel like Hiroshima inside over this!

Is that over the top?

How can a parent's instincts be so different from my own?

Augusto!!! How the hell can you embrace this madness!???!!???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## adriana

Doc Who said:


> Augusto,
> 
> Do you know why you are have come to TAM? I am guessing it is because you know something is SERIOUSLY wrong. You SEEM to have accepted the faulty conclusion your IC gave you about your wife as gospel. I admit, some of what your wife wrote the AP in that horrific letter is typical affair nonsense. *But wanting to kill her kids?* That is not depression. I have treated a number of clinically depressed women who have confessed out of the blue that they were engaged in adultery, and NONE of them ever expressed any desire to kill their children. Of the ones expressing any ideas of wanting to harm - it was always ALWAYS self-harm. These women all felt their families would be better off without them.
> 
> The fact that you so easily have accepted that *her wanting to kill her children* was just affair nonsense is troubling. It is not normal. It is not healthy. IT IS NOT SAFE.
> 
> Please seek the services of another mental health care professional.
> 
> Your rationalization of this situation is disturbing.



Signora Augusto never said she wanted to kill her children.... you're imagining things that never happened.


----------



## cgiles

Hello

Did you gave a look at this : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE ?

even if you don't know if you want to stay in your marriage, the 180 lists can be useful for you.

You seem to connect your happiness to your family, which is understandable, but you should learn to be happy by yourself, that's what the 180lists makes, it helps the betrayed to fix itself and find out they can be happy by themself.

After reading the razor's event, I think you should read this book : 

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

It's about respecting yourself.

Another great book you can read is "when I say no, I feel guilty" by Manuel J.Smith, a classic of self improvement.

It's about the right to feel whatever we wants, to own the consequences of your choices, and so to stand for our choices and feelings.

It's very direct, he doesn't go deep in you, he jut explains you how to effectively stand for yourself.

I will repeat what others said, but don't stay for the kids !

My parents never cheated on each others, but as I grow up, I always seen two friends, not two lovers. 

It took me several years to understand being friendly is not flirting...

Your kids will learn by themself what is a good relationship by watching you and your wife, like they did for walk or talk. 
Maybe you helped them to walk a bit, or corrected their way to talk, but at end, they just repeated what you was doing.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



ConanHub said:


> Did she wish her kids dead as well?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






Augusto said:


> yes


The OP answered this directly in post 134. How are others seeing things that are not true?



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Doc Who

adriana said:


> Signora Augusto never said she wanted to kill her children.... you're imagining things that never happened.


Really? So Augusto is lying in post 134? Please let us all know how you know that. Or do you just enjoy making false accusations?


----------



## adriana

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



farsidejunky said:


> The OP answered this directly in post 134. How are others seeing things that are not true?


There is a huge difference between wishing for something and actually intending to do it.


And with this having been said.... I absolutely don't believe that signora Augusto actually wished for her husband and children to be dead. 

After reading her letter I saw a woman who, writing from the bottom of her own despair, was trying to throw a Hail Mary pass in a desperate attempt to lure her AP to leave his family and move on with her. She didn't hesitate to degrade herself in the process. 

While it's perfectly clear that her own family wasn't her top priority at the time, but it doesn't mean that she actually wanted them dead. What she said is simply deplorable and I can only imagine how painful it must be for Augusto to read it. But the truth is that what she was really trying to accomplish was to demonstrate her devotion to her AP. 

Signora Augusto isn't going to be remembered as a gifted writer and, when in the heat of the moment, she made that ominous statement her attention was focused on her AP not on her husband and not on her family. She didn't want them dead. She said that to demonstrate her devotion to her AP hoping to persuade him into running together into the sunset. Nothing else.


As for your question.... _How are others seeing things that are not true?_ I guess they are simply jaded to the point of being irrational.


----------



## adriana

Doc Who said:


> Really? So Augusto is lying in post 134? Please let us all know how you know that. Or do you just enjoy making false accusations?



He never said that his wife wanted to kill her children.... never!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Augusto.... when I was in my mid 30's other's people's perspective of me and my own perspective of me were VASTLY different. If someone complimented me it would send a shockwave through my body. If multiple people did it at the same time I would break down into tears. After much thought I realized something was very wrong. I WAS who they said I was, but my view of myself was not even in the ball park to the degree that my body had severe reactions to compliments of all things. Around that same time... I could not recognize when someone else was psychologically violating me nor recognize threats to my own safety. It is still an issue to this day. My step mother recently hammered me when I put myself in a dangerous position. She was freaking out yet I was perfectly calm about it and honestly... shouldn't have been. So perspective of what should be normal acceptance versus putting myself in danger is messed up. The reason? My "danger" radar was almost completely obliterated by the long term abuse I lived under growing up. I'm a little better at recognizing it today, but there are still times I have to rely on others to check myself. Problem is I'm so confident now in my skills, sometimes they trust my judgment when they shouldn't. I say all of that to say. This is what is coming to mind when I read your thread. I think your "danger" radar is broken and you need to rely on others to help you navigate out of this situation. I do not feel this is a situation where you can trust yourself. And DEFINITELY do NOT trust your wife's words.

She's sitting there telling the people who are concerned for the safety of yourself and your children to F*** Off. She is not to be trusted.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



adriana said:


> There is a huge difference between wishing for something and actually intending to do it.
> 
> 
> And with this having been said.... I absolutely don't believe that signora Augusto actually wished for her husband and children to be dead.
> 
> After reading her letter I saw a woman who, writing from the bottom of her own despair, was trying to throw a Hail Mary pass in a desperate attempt to lure her AP to leave his family and move on with her. She didn't hesitate to degrade herself in the process.
> 
> While it's perfectly clear that her own family wasn't her top priority at the time, but it doesn't mean that she actually wanted them dead. What she said is simply deplorable and I can only imagine how painful it must be for Augusto to read it. But the truth is that what she was really trying to accomplish was to demonstrate her devotion to her AP.
> 
> Signora Augusto isn't going to be remembered as a gifted writer and, when in the heat of the moment, she made that ominous statement her attention was focused on her AP not on her husband and not on her family. She didn't want them dead. She said that to demonstrate her devotion to her AP hoping to persuade him into running together into the sunset. Nothing else.
> 
> 
> As for your question.... _How are others seeing things that are not true?_ I guess they are simply jaded to the point of being irrational.


Would the threat be taken any less seriously if someone wrote that they wanted to die, or off handedly made reference to suicide? How about a man who espouses hurting or killing his wife?

Either we take threats of violence seriously or we don't. I will err on the side of caution with this every time.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kobold

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



adriana said:


> There is a huge difference between wishing for something and actually intending to do it.
> 
> She's probably not a physical threat to her kids right now, but this woman was willing to permanently abandon her children to be with the OM, going so far as to promise to raise his kids instead of her own. Anyway you slice it she's a terrible mother regardless of whether or not she's the next Susan Smith.
> 
> And with this having been said.... I absolutely don't believe that signora Augusto actually wished for her husband and children to be dead.
> 
> Here's what she actually said in the letter.
> 
> "All you need to do at this point is let me know when we can be together. I have fallen very hard for you and the thought of not being able to be with you and have you for myself just makes me wish my husband and my children were not in my life or even dead. I do not want any of them in my life anymore and I am ready to create new memories with you. I am willing to be a mother to your children. I would be a great mother to them so you need not worry. I am not worried about my husband. He will raise the children without me and they are better off."
> 
> She wished them dead in plain simple English, there's no denying it. Now you may be claiming that this wasn't her true desire since she goes on to say that her husband would raise the kids without her and that she was simply being hyperbolic and that's certainly possible, but it doesn't change the fact that her words revealed her true desires, namely the fact that she wanted all of them(husband and children) permanently removed from her life, never to be seen or heard from again.
> 
> Them being dead or alive wouldn't really change her intent, she simply wanted them out of her life forever. If your only argument is that she can't be tried for attempted murder then I agree, but it sounds more like you're falling over yourself to twist her words into meaning the opposite of what she actually said. She's not a sympathetic figure here no matter how much you might want her to be one.
> 
> After reading her letter I saw a woman who, writing from the bottom of her own despair, was trying to throw a Hail Mary pass in a desperate attempt to lure her AP to leave his family and move on with her. She didn't hesitate to degrade herself in the process.
> 
> She absolutely was trying to lure the AP back into her life, but the idea that it was from the "bottom of her own despair" sounds like apologetic melodrama IMO, it's the type of thing the OP's IC would probably tell him in an attempt to manipulate him into pitying her. I don't see it that way at all, I see a woman who was literally begging the OM to take her away from the husband and children she no longer wanted.
> 
> This woman has proven that she will "trade up" for something she thinks is a better deal. Her husband and children are just background characters in her life, completely replaceable. They're collectively her plan B. Which is why even though I personally don't think she's a physical threat to them, I can absolutely see why others might be concerned for their safety given the lack of value she's placed on them thus far.
> 
> While it's perfectly clear that her own family wasn't her top priority at the time, but it doesn't mean that she actually wanted them dead.
> 
> That's a very polite way of putting it. They weren't a priority at all, they were disposable to her. They were burdens standing in the way of her happiness and contentment.
> 
> What she said is simply deplorable and I can only imagine how painful it must be for Augusto to read it. But the truth is that what she was really trying to accomplish was to demonstrate her devotion to her AP.
> 
> Agreed, she was willing to pretend like her whole family no longer existed all for the prospect of being the OM's wh*re. She literally promised to abandon her kids and give him BJ's and anal sex as a way of "winning" him over.
> 
> Signora Augusto isn't going to be remembered as a gifted writer and, when in the heat of the moment, she made that ominous statement her attention was focused on her AP not on her husband and not on her family. She didn't want them dead. She said that to demonstrate her devotion to her AP hoping to persuade him into running together into the sunset. Nothing else.
> 
> Now you're bordering on being an apologist for her behavior. The problem was not her lack of writing talent, she said exactly what she felt in that letter. She wanted her family gone so she could be with the OM, better prose wouldn't erase the absence of human decency that her letter displayed. The problem is not one of semantics, but her character.
> 
> As for your question.... _How are others seeing things that are not true?_ I guess they are simply jaded to the point of being irrational.
> 
> And perhaps some posters can relate a little too much to Mrs. Augusto and her "plight".


----------



## bandit.45

I would blackmail the sh!t out of her with that letter....

If I were Augusto I would tell her that she can either give me the divorce terms I want (Primary custody of the kids and CS from her, she gets none of my retirement or SS, etc.) or that letter will magically make its way into the hands of her family and friends.


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> I would blackmail the sh!t out of her with that letter....
> 
> If I were Augusto I would tell her that she can either give me the divorce terms I want (Primary custody of the kids and CS from her, she gets none of my retirement or SS, etc.) or that letter will magically make its way into the hands of her family and friends.


Not a big fan of extortion But there are exceptions

Hitler 
Pol Pot
Stalin
Pinochet
The Shaw of Iran

And of course Mrs. Augusto

55


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



farsidejunky said:


> The OP answered this directly in post 134. How are others seeing things that are not true?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No Adriana is right, but she is using it to excuse the wife's actions. After reading the letter I believe it 100%. It's the same game another poster plays with words. She wished them dead, she didn't say she would kill them. That's the huge difference. The rest of what was posted is to out there for me to even really touch.

Shows you how two people can read things differently.


The letter shows she wanted the guy SO BAD, she wished her husband and children dead. Yes, she meant it. This is why I hate FOG talk. People excuse a cheaters words and actions by saying, "but, but she/he was in the fog" blah blah blah blah blah. Yet, we have UNDENIABLE proof from divorce all the way up to murder showing some people mean what they say while in the alleged fog.


----------



## Doc Who

ConanHub said:


> Did she wish her kids dead as well?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Augusto said:


> yes


I hate to thread jack this, but MY GOODNESS Adriana.Asked and answered. SHE WISHED HER KIDS DEAD.

Adriana, I get that you want us all to know there is difference between saying and doing. Bully for you. Point made. 

But you are being obtuse to the detriment of Augusto. You are projecting BIG TIME and your advice is completely contraindicated.

You would never tell a woman - stick with man even though he said he wanted to kill you kids.

Time to get real. Women are capable of horrors too.

But more importantly even if she might not actually kill her kids is that AUGUSTO is quite accepting of her statements.

That is not healthy, not safe, not rational. A real father would protect the kids.

Augusto has found the first quack with an opinion in the ballpark of yours that "Eh, she didn't mean it. Let it slide." And jumped on it because that is what he feels comfortable doing.

You should NEVER be comfortable when someone, ANYONE threatens the life of your children.

So why are you so comfortable with someone threatening their children?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> I would blackmail the sh!t out of her with that letter....
> 
> If I were Augusto I would tell her that she can either give me the divorce terms I want (Primary custody of the kids and CS from her, she gets none of my retirement or SS, etc.) or that letter will magically make its way into the hands of her family and friends.





just got it 55 said:


> Not a big fan of extortion But there are exceptions
> 
> Hitler
> Pol Pot
> Stalin
> Pinochet
> The Shaw of Iran
> 
> And of course Mrs. Augusto
> 
> 55


I think I have to agree. I would do EVERYTHING in my power to protect those kids including extortion. Count me in.


----------



## ABHale

You need to find another counselor man. Bad response. Looks like money grab and a suck it up it is what it is get over it. YOUR WW HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU!!!
Do what is right for you and your kids. Get them out of that environment. Good luck man.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Doc Who said:


> You should NEVER be comfortable when someone, ANYONE threatens the life of your children.
> 
> So why are you so comfortable with someone threatening their children?


She didn't make a threat and that is where we are going of the rails. We have no clue iF she meant she would kill them or if she would be happy if they all just died. I know you will argue, but like I did your mind goes to killers like Susana smith. That's us projecting events onto the situation. It doesn't mean she has murder on her mind. I am not going to make that leap because I do not know her. What I do know is, if my wife wished my kids dead, by what means does not matter to me, I am out of the door for their protection because I do no know what she means. Oh and to be real, Augusto doesn't know either because he didn't think she would cheat, let alone, wish him and the children dead.


----------



## Doc Who

Philly

How are you SO SURE she did not say those words? Are you saying Augusto is lying? Or are we reading things differently.?What about the words "Did she wish her kids dead as well?" "Yes." gives you any basis for claiming that she did not actually articulate that she wished her kids were dead?

If there is a post in which Augusto says "Hey guys. I just think she wished her kids dead. All of it cool. I was wrong."

If so, where was it, because I missed it. I sure could have. I am not the best reader in the world. But I cannot find anything to support your conclusion.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Doc Who said:


> Philly
> 
> How are you SO SURE she did not say those words?


 How do you know she said what you wrote? He defined what she said. Then he posted it in context to what was written. 



> Are you saying Augusto is lying?


 No, I am saying many of you made a leap and aren't paying attention to what was written.



> Or are we reading things differently.?


 Oh, I am fine, some of you are reading subjectively out of disgust.



> What about the words "Did she wish her kids dead as well?" "Yes." gives you any basis for claiming that she did not actually articulate that she wished her kids were dead?
> 
> If there is a post in which Augusto says "Hey guys. I just think she wished her kids dead. All of it cool. I was wrong.".


Do I really need to define your suggestion? You are alleging she wants to murder her kids. Yes, you said kill, but the legal act would be murder. Killing and murder are not suggested in his posts.

I can wish someone dead and NEVER want them killed.
I can threaten someone and NEVER WISH them dead.
I can kill someone and they will be dead without a threat ever being made.



> If so, where was it, because I missed it. I sure could have. I am not the best reader in the world. But I cannot find anything to support your conclusion.


Now, you made a leap on your own to "kill." That's fine, but in context to what she wrote you have NO CLUE what she meant. Yes, I can back up my conclusion with actual posts. I am going by the words on the thread, you can't back up "kill" until he agrees with you.


----------



## ConanHub

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She didn't make a threat and that is where we are going of the rails. We have no clue iF she meant she would kill them or if she would be happy if they all just died. I know you will argue, but like I did your mind goes to killers like Susana smith. That's us projecting events onto the situation. It doesn't mean she has murder on her mind. I am not going to make that leap because I do not know her. What I do know is, if my wife wished my kids dead, by what means does not matter to, I am out of the door for their protection because I do no know what she means. Oh and to be real, Augusto doesn't know either because he didn't think she would cheat, let alone, wish him and the children dead.


I agree. She didn't offer to kill her family.

What she did was terrible enough without adding to it.

I can't imagine staying with someone who wanted nothing to do with her own children for the sake of affair sex, much less wished them dead.

What she did say was over the top enough on its own merits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Bandito, crossing wires.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> I agree also that she was not making an out-and-out threat to kill her husband or kids....only wishing that their existence never was, so that she could give her all to the OM.
> 
> A prior poster described it as a Hail Mary pass to get the OM to commit to her, and I agree with that assessment. It was a pure Roger Staubach throw... She was desperate. Sick, desperate people say and write stupid things when they see no way out.
> 
> My feeling is, that the OP's WW is locked into her groove through shame and pride. She is so overwhelmed with shame that she has just assumed that no amount of contriteness or remorse is going to return her life to what it was pre-A, so why even try? Grid has already shown her he is not going to return to being the man he was before the A.
> 
> 
> I would imagine a lot of it is pride also. She just refuses to admit her full and complete responsibility for fvcking things up the way she did. For her to admit this was all her doing, she would have to also concede that nothing Grid did was deserving of her raunchy behavior. No way is she going to do that. She would rather lose everything than admit she is the worse offender.
> 
> ....So I think it is a combination of both these forces working on her.
> 
> This is why I think Grid should consider this e-mail his ace in the hole. If she doesn't want to play nice then he should consider forwarding that e-mail onto her parents and siblings, because I would imagine she has spent the last few months trashing him to everybody. If he is going to be the bad guy in this divorce, he might as well get the kids and money too.


Bandit You are mixing threads That's usually caused by age :laugh: 

55


----------



## bandit.45

I just turned 48 yesterday....maybe that has something to do with it. Fvcking bats in the bell tower.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> I just turned 48 yesterday....maybe that has something to do with it. Fvcking bats in the bell tower.


Happy Birthday!


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> Happy Birthday!


Gracias mi amiga!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Gracias mi amiga!


Very welcome :grin2:


----------



## bandit.45

But the stuff I said about pride and shame go with Augusto's WW too. She has gone too far to turn around and walk back and she knows it.


----------



## just got it 55

Py compleanno fratello

55


----------



## oneMOreguy

I was trying to get a handle on her comment by rephrasing it into......."I would be ok if my husband and children died somehow because then I could be with OM". This comment style really made me uncomfortable because it clarified that at that time they held absolutely no value to her. I hope her kids never find out about this...that would be traumatic.


----------



## Openminded

(Tiny T/J) 

Glad to see you post, EI -- wish you posted much, much more. TAM needs your voice.


----------



## adriana

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



farsidejunky said:


> Would the threat be taken any less seriously if someone wrote that they wanted to die, or off handedly made reference to suicide? How about a man who espouses hurting or killing his wife?
> 
> Either we take threats of violence seriously or we don't. I will err on the side of caution with this every time.



Farsidejunky, I agree with you that all threats of violence should be taken seriously but in this particular case I don't see one. 

I already explained why she wrote what she wrote and while the emotional weight of her letter is too much for Augusto to bear (no surprise here), she didn't want to kill her children. Or him.


----------



## adriana

Doc Who said:


> I hate to thread jack this, but MY GOODNESS Adriana.Asked and answered. SHE WISHED HER KIDS DEAD.


Actually, I've pointed out the nonsense you were trying to perpetuate when you said that _she wanted to kill her children._ I've never tried to argue that she didn't say in her letter that she wished her kids dead. 





Doc Who said:


> Adriana, I get that you want us all to know there is difference between saying and doing. Bully for you. Point made.


Great. At least you got this one right.





Doc Who said:


> But you are being obtuse to the detriment of Augusto. You are projecting BIG TIME and your advice is completely contraindicated.


I'm not projecting anything and my advice isn't completely, or even partially, contraindicated because I haven't offered any to anyone in this thread. I only called you up on perpetuating your "killing" nonsense and explained why Augusto's philandering wife wrote what she wrote in her letter. There was no advice.

And I don't see how I was being obtuse to the detriment of Augusto? 





Doc Who said:


> You would never tell a woman - stick with man even though he said he wanted to kill you kids.


You would also never tell a man - stick with woman even though she said she wanted to kill his/her kids.





Doc Who said:


> Time to get real. Women are capable of horrors too.


I'm assuming you're talking to yourself now but I agree with you. Yes, women can as cold, cruel and calculating as men. And they aren't afraid to go after what they want.





Doc Who said:


> But more importantly *even if she might not actually kill her kids* is that AUGUSTO is quite accepting of her statements.


You're beginning to imagine things again and I can't help you with this. 





Doc Who said:


> That is not healthy, not safe, not rational. A real father would protect the kids.


Do you have any valid reason to believe that Augusto is a failure as a father? Personally, I think that he is a dedicated father who seems to love his children very much.




Doc Who said:


> Augusto has found the first quack with an opinion in the ballpark of yours that "Eh, she didn't mean it. Let it slide." And jumped on it because that is what he feels comfortable doing.


No, Augusto isn't looking for any advice from me or anyone else. Once every few months he starts a new thread to simply vent. He isn't open to any suggestions. Actually, he made it perfectly clear that he isn't going to leave his wife which is the only logical thing to do considering the magnitude of her betrayal. Sure he enjoys attention and sympathy we provide but he mostly comes here to vent. As long as it helps him to heal I have no problem with it. 





Doc Who said:


> You should NEVER be comfortable when someone, ANYONE threatens the life of your children.


I consider myself very fortunate in all aspects of my life but, regrettably, I have no offspring. At 35 it is slowly becoming the greatest regret of my life. But I would be a great mom and never allow anyone to hurt my children. 





Doc Who said:


> So why are you so comfortable with someone threatening their children?


Again, I don't believe that Augusto's wife is a threat to their children. People in desperate, emotionally charged situations say a lot of stupid things. She was attempting to make herself as appealing to her AP as possible even if it involved sacrificing her own dignity. And while I have no doubt that she was ready to abandon her own family for him, I don't believe she actually wished them to be dead or harmed in any other way.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

When someone shows you who they are... Believe them.


----------



## adriana

Blossom Leigh said:


> When someone shows you who they are... Believe them.



I agree. Absolutely. And that is why I advised him to divorce his wife in one or two of his early threads.


----------



## JohnA

I have skipped ahead on this thread from page 11 so if I missed a discussion of her cutting let me know. 

She is cutting herself PEOPLE ! This is a sign of mental illness. @Uptown might offer more naunce insight but OP your wife needs serious help. I took her comment about death with a grain of salt, until I saw his comment about waking up to her crying and using a cutting wheel to cut herself. Did I misread it ?


----------



## Kobold

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



adriana said:


> Actually, I've pointed out the nonsense you were trying to perpetuate when you said that _she wanted to kill her children._ I've never tried to argue that she didn't say in her letter that she wished her kids dead.


In fairness, you kinda did. Perhaps you meant that she(Mrs. Augusto) wrote something(wishing her kids dead) that she didn't actually want to happen and was just being melodramatic, but you did say what he claimed you said. 



adriana said:


> And with this having been said.... I absolutely don't believe that signora Augusto actually wished for her husband and children to be dead.


Regardless, you're probably right about the OP, he will not be divorcing his wife and doesn't seem open to anybody's advice, which is his prerogative of course.


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## Augusto

*Re: &amp;quot;I want my husband back&amp;quot; was said to me*



Kobold said:


> In fairness, you kinda did. Perhaps you meant that she(Mrs. Augusto) wrote something(wishing her kids dead) that she didn't actually want to happen and was just being melodramatic, but you did say what he claimed you said.
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, you're probably right about the OP, he will not be divorcing his wife and doesn't seem open to anybody's advice, which is his prerogative of course.



Not true.... I actually took some of what you guys say in with me to the counselor.


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## Augusto

Update: 
The last two weeks have been pretty good. The military councilor I have been seeing has brought several things to light that I never thought of. He also mentioned that the love letter and the images will never ever go away even with a different woman. He said things like that just leave scars that do no hurt but you can still see a remember the hurt. 

He says if I can stop feeding from that hurt, I should be able to break away from some of it. He also said my wife is remorseful of it all. Her cutting was a way to release anger at herself of hurting me and ruining what we had and not for her being stuck with me. Her wanting me and the kids dead was just to be free from obligation. 

Her depression evidently was triggered by the pregnancy. I never heard of that but he said it is very common and very real. I just did not know. He also said the other guy is nothing more than a predator. He has done this with 4 other women since my wife. He knows how to get into their head and the times to do it. I don't read into that too much because I could care less. I gave him a broken nose and a concussion. 

I did hear another man paper bombed his neighborhood. That must have been good for his kids and wife. My wife hates herself still for her actions. She said she has real trouble looking into my eyes and how much I have changed knowing that she brought out the changes in me. I was moved by the way she explained to me how she wishes to beat the sh!t out of that woman she was during that time. 

It wasn't because of what it did to her as she said she has overcome the issues and feelings of false love that she had. But it's what it did to me and how things are forever changed. She is having a hard time living with herself on what she did to me. I told her to stop cutting and talk to me. So she has. She told me the other day that she is going to let my new self play out and support me in all aspects of it. 

Basically as long as I do not stray from the marriage and stay a good father and husband, I can do whatever the hell I want. :grin2: She even bought me a new shaving cream that I actually like. This Proraso stuff is pretty good. Uses shaving brush and it's not a gel. So she's on-board with some changes. 

I bought some ammo the other day. She said cool. She is encouraging me to engage in the activities I used to get gripes about. I am starting to feel like perhaps a different man that I am becoming was always there but was just needing a reason to surface. Doc says it is always been me and I chose to suppress. So deep down I was always an a$$hole!!>


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## Uptown

Augusto said:


> I bought some ammo the other day. She said cool.


Really, Augusto? Are you saying that you have live ammunition and guns in the same home where your wife expressed a desire for you and the children to be dead -- and is so emotionally unstable she has been cutting herself with a sharp blade? Please tell me you have stored the ammo and guns 1,000 miles away in a bank vault.


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## Adelais

Uptown said:


> Really, Augusto? Are you saying that you have live ammunition and guns in the same home where your wife expressed a desire for you and the children to be dead -- and is so emotionally unstable she has been cutting herself with a sharp blade? Please tell me you have stored the ammo and guns 1,000 miles away in a bank vault.


C'mon, if she wanted to kill everyone, I'm sure there are plenty of long, sharp knives in the kitchen that would do just fine. You're overreacting to the ammo. She probably doesn't even know how to load the gun and shoot it, but she definitely knows how to use a knife.

And she isn't going to use either one. Her wishing they were dead was a passive wish like "I wish he got hit by a bus." It didn't mean she was going to do anything to make it happen.


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## 3putt

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> C'mon, if she wanted to kill everyone, I'm sure there are plenty of long, sharp knives in the kitchen that would do just fine. You're overreacting to the ammo. She probably doesn't even know how to load the gun and shoot it, but she definitely knows how to use a knife.
> 
> And she isn't going to use either one. Her wishing they were dead was a passive wish like "I wish he got hit by a bus." It didn't mean she was going to do anything to make it happen.


Are you *absolutely* certain of all this?

Under the circumstances, I'm not so sure I would be.

Toss in her violent propensity to cut herself and I would defintely err on the side of caution......just to be safe.


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## Adelais

I'm not *absolutely* certain. Everyday she has had many chances to stab her family and she hasn't.


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## 3putt

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I'm not *absolutely* certain. Everyday she has had many chances to stab her family and she hasn't.


Okay


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## Augusto

Uptown said:


> Really, Augusto? Are you saying that you have live ammunition and guns in the same home where your wife expressed a desire for you and the children to be dead -- and is so emotionally unstable she has been cutting herself with a sharp blade? Please tell me you have stored the ammo and guns 1,000 miles away in a bank vault.


She has her own gun. Pink Ruger SR9


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## Adelais

So she has her own gun, knows how to use it and she hasn't used it on her family. She was just wishing they would accidentally drive off a cliff. That is bad enough, but it isn't murder.


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## Mr Blunt

> He also said my wife is remorseful of it all.


Your wife being remorseful is a positive step. However, the questions now are:

1	Can you heal enough to make the marriage work for the long haul?

2	Your wife being remorseful is a positive but can she recover enough so that she will be more of an asset to you than a liability?

*What do you think?*




> I gave him a broken nose and a concussion.


Congratulations!! The OM should be grateful because it is possible that he could have got a lot worse.




> She told me the other day that she is going to let my new self play out and support me in all aspects of it.


She is going to have to do a lot more than that to make your marriage work! 




> Her wanting me and the kids dead was just to be free from obligation.


I am not trying to be a downer on your wife. However, for me it is just that her words about the death of her children tells me that her selfishness goes extra deep and that she maybe too damaged and weak to help you enough even though she wants to. Many people have had a very strong urge to be free from obligation, including me, but would never even THINK or SAY that they wanted their children dead. Your wife’s words go way beyond any cheating wife or husband that I have ever heard of. *What is your thinking on her words?*

IF you two make it and have a successful marriage please post and tell us in the future. If you and your wife succeed then that will tell me that recovery is more possible than I think. *Will you keep us informed through the years?*


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## blahfridge

Hi Augusto, I like your user name.  

I have skimmed through your thread, so forgive me if I missed something that I should know. A few thoughts - first, your wife wishing you were gone is most likely exactly as your counselor described. Wanting to just escape from her obligation to you. I had that same thought a few times during the worst of my marriage crisis. It really upset me to know that I could think like that and it was only after I read that it is not an uncommon feeling when a spouse is in an intolerable situation that I stopped beating myself up so much about it. In your wife's case, the situation was of her own making completely. In my case, my H cheated on me for years with at least five different women and then I had an emotional affair. I felt paralyzed - didn't want to break up my family, but no longer in love with my H after all that had happened. Hence, those thoughts of wishing he was simply gone. What's disturbing about your wife's writings is that she also wished her children were gone. I could never in a million years wish that. In fact, my greatest fear is that something will happen to one of them. Very few mothers would give voice to a desire for their children to be gone, even if they might feel that way in a real moment of despair. But feelings in and of themselves are not bad, they are just feelings. It's actions that count. You do need to talk to her about what she wrote at some point, maybe you have already. Sorry, if I missed that. 

The bottom line is that it's really a cowardly way of dealing with, or I should say NOT dealing with wanting to end your marriage. I know that now and, though I am still married, we have an in house separation and the kids know that we are taking a break from each other in order to decide how to proceed going forward. On any given day I want to stay with him and then I don't. You don't have to make a decision now about everything, just about what you think will work right now.

One other thing - I got the "I want my wife back" comment from my H as well. His was more, "I want our old marriage back." I think he sees now that it isn't possible as I think your wife is seeing now as well. Cheating blows the old marriage up and changes both people profoundly.


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## Kobold

I must have missed the part about her cutting herself. I said before that I didn't think she was actually a physical threat to her kids since her "wishing them dead" was likely just melodramatic hyperbole, but I'm not so sure about that now. People who harm themselves can legitimately be a danger to others, since they are not in their right state of mind.


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## bfree

Just catching up on this thread. Let me say that although I am in favor of reconciliation for the most part I do think I could even consider staying with someone after reading that letter. You are certainly a stronger man than I. I do have a question Augusto. What assurances do you have that she won't repeat her behavior. If she gets "depressed" again will she fall for the charms of another "predator?" There are certainly enough of them out there.


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## ConanHub

I think Augusto might need more mental/emotional therapy than his unstable wife.

Read through your own posts man.

You are all over the map, from severe anger, trigger events to talking about how great she and you are doing with your counselor who discounts the importance of wishing your kids dead for an easier lay. Not to mention cutting.

Your rationalization of her behavior is possibly more disturbing than her behavior itself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Augusto

bfree said:


> Just catching up on this thread. Let me say that although I am in favor of reconciliation for the most part I do think I could even consider staying with someone after reading that letter. You are certainly a stronger man than I. I do have a question Augusto. What assurances do you have that she won't repeat her behavior. If she gets "depressed" again will she fall for the charms of another "predator?" There are certainly enough of them out there.


Hard to say.....but I live in a fault state so if she does her life is over in terms of living in the same home, being around the kids, and me moving on and growing old without her.


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## Augusto

ConanHub said:


> I think Augusto might need more mental/emotional therapy than his unstable wife.
> 
> Read through your own posts man.
> 
> You are all over the map, from severe anger, trigger events to talking about how great she and you are doing with your counselor who discounts the importance of wishing your kids dead for an easier lay. Not to mention cutting.
> 
> Your rationalization of her behavior is possibly more disturbing than her behavior itself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not rationalizing anything...that is what the counselor interpreted it as. If you wish to go and argue your feelings on it, PM me and I will give you his phone number.


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## bfree

Augusto said:


> Hard to say.....but I live in a fault state so if she does her life is over in terms of living in the same home, being around the kids, and me moving on and growing old without her.


I might have missed this but is your wife in individual therapy? Are you allowed to get updates on her progress? Can you sit in on a session or two? I'm not going to question your decision to reconcile. It's yours, you own it, and toward that end I hope I and my fellow posters will offer you advice that might help. I do feel that if your reconciliation is going to be successful that you need to be involved in your wife's therapy as much as you can. She needs to get to the root of her issues, not only why she had an affair but why she fell down that rabbit hole so far. I've been on TAM for a while. I also counsel in "real life." Contrary to what you've been told waywards do not contemplate the things your wife obviously did. If her depression is as severe as it seems she needs constant monitoring so she doesn't lose perspective again.


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## ConanHub

Augusto said:


> Not rationalizing anything...that is what the counselor interpreted it as. If you wish to go and argue your feelings on it, PM me and I will give you his phone number.


That is a very poor deflection.

You are apparently putting the weight of your decisions on others and won't bare the weight yourself.

Your counselor, while having a hand in this, is not responsible for your decisions. You are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA

Augusto, 

You are blowing right past ConanHub, @Uptown, and @3putt. Read ConanHub's posts on other threads. Then read his last one to you. You mention you had no idea about the reality of post natal depression. It appears you still do not even begin to grasp how serious cutting is. 

Your wife is in deep and you not recognizing it is foolish. At some point after a person has been warnned the results of ignoring the warnings is on them if they don't take care to avoid them. If you choose to stay in this marriage you are accepting to be married to a person who needs a great deal of support, not unlike meeting and marring a person who is wheel chair bound. 

These are a separate issue then her adultery. You are becoming the guy who married a wet alcoholic and whining about how they can't get dry. What do you want us to say ? You now know or should know what she is and what it takes to be married to her. Read @Uptowns many posts, he has been there big time.


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## jim123

Augusto,

I could PM you the number of an IC that can help you more than yours is. There is a reason you are not healing is in part the advise you are given

The only reason your wife is with you is because OM said no, plain and simple. She is holding on to the only thing she has left. 

You are so excited just because she is going to allow you to do some things as long as you don't cheat, are a great spouse and great parent.

She on the other hand does what she wants but can cheat and not be a great spouse or great parent.


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## JohnA

Christ Agusto you have no idea how out of chacter my comments and others posters recent posts are. You are about to become the guy who sticks his head threw the bars of a polar bear cage and is shocked when the bear starts eating him whose last words are but they are so cute.

No one here is discounting her adultery or your pain. It is her mental health and your refusal to acknowledge it's long term significance that scares us. To go back to a wheel chair example. You marry them, go on the honeymoon, get home and then starts complaining about needing to build ramps and reconfiguring the bathroom. 

Can you rebuild from her adultery AND can you do it with a person who has severe mental health issues ?


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## JohnA

@jim123 you are missing mine and some others point. Do you remember the story of the turtle and the scorpion ? There is a part of her that is a scorpion and always will be. An alcoholic or an addict will always be an alcoholic or and addict. Bees will string, and will always sting the bee keeper to death. If you can't accept and protect yourself from this, don't be a bee keeper.

Oh, and the only reason she has not done to the OM what she did to Agusto is he did accept her offer.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Naw, you missed Jim's point. He is saying the advice he is receiving from his current IC is bad. He isn't talking about the posters who are worried about his wife's actions.


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## jim123

Augusto's WW was all in for OM as her letter says. I remember his first thread. As I recall she was telling people at work that she was leaving Augusto for OM.

She is embarrassed that OM dumped her. Having Augusto dump her will be the frosting on the cake.

Plan B never becomes Plan A. Augusto is Plan B.

Deep down he knows this and that is why he still comes here although he has taken no action to stand up for himself or his M.


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## Augusto

ConanHub said:


> That is a very poor deflection.
> 
> You are apparently putting the weight of your decisions on others and won't bare the weight yourself.
> 
> Your counselor, while having a hand in this, is not responsible for your decisions. You are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is not a deflection. I am instructed that sorting this out is going to take some time in identifying these emotions and decisions I make cannot be dictated by them. And if you think that I have not carried any weight in any of this you are seriously mistaken.


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## Augusto

jim123 said:


> Augusto,
> 
> I could PM you the number of an IC that can help you more than yours is. There is a reason you are not healing is in part the advise you are given
> 
> The only reason your wife is with you is because OM said no, plain and simple. She is holding on to the only thing she has left.
> 
> You are so excited just because she is going to allow you to do some things as long as you don't cheat, are a great spouse and great parent.
> 
> She on the other hand does what she wants but can cheat and not be a great spouse or great parent.


One session and he's a failure?! This one is new....at least give him a few months.


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## Evinrude58

Augusto,
Your counselor shouldn't be needed for you to see your wife is not remorseful whatsoever, she is just without another option. Her AP dumped her. She is only with you for her own selfish reasons, none of which include love for you.
If EVER a man should see he is with the wrong woman, it's you. Hell, her AP wouldn't have her!

Your therapist should be helping you heal with the goal of getting happy with you, not happy with her. I know it's painful.....
Just make yourself do the right thing and set her free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Augusto

Evinrude58 said:


> Augusto,
> Your counselor shouldn't be needed for you to see your wife is not remorseful whatsoever, she is just without another option. Her AP dumped her. She is only with you for her own selfish reasons, none of which include love for you.
> If EVER a man should see he is with the wrong woman, it's you. Hell, her AP wouldn't have her!
> 
> Your therapist should be helping you heal with the goal of getting happy with you, not happy with her. I know it's painful.....
> Just make yourself do the right thing and set her free.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it is just harder to explain here. She does give lots of love I am just not good at explaining it. Depression with her is sometimes triggered by what she has done to me. So I try not to get to involved and avoid the crap. 

She is still not happy with me not wanting much intimacy the last couple of years. She is angry and frustrated when I don't respond to her advances. Every time she does it, it is in my mind asking myself if she did this with the other man. So I don't respond to it as I do not want to compare it in my head. She said I make it worse when I do that. Things will just take time.


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## bandit.45

She lacks empathy.


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## just got it 55

Uptown said:


> Really, Augusto? Are you saying that you have live ammunition and guns in the same home where your wife expressed a desire for you and the children to be dead -- and is so emotionally unstable she has been cutting herself with a sharp blade? Please tell me you have stored the ammo and guns 1,000 miles away in a bank vault.


Oh stop it

55


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## Decorum

Augusto said:


> I think it is just harder to explain here. She does give lots of love I am just not good at explaining it. Depression with her is sometimes triggered by what she has done to me. So I try not to get to involved and avoid the crap.
> 
> She is still not happy with me not wanting much intimacy the last couple of years. She is angry and frustrated when I don't respond to her advances. Every time she does it, it is in my mind asking myself if she did this with the other man. So I don't respond to it as I do not want to compare it in my head. She said I make it worse when I do that. Things will just take time.


Wow Augusto I had no idea, I am so sorry.

Augusto, did you and your wife ever experience a period of hyper-bonding after you decided to reconcile?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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