# Wife confessed to a ONS



## Tbumgarner12

We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over. 
it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


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## BeyondRepair007

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


I’m sorry to hear about this @Tbumgarner12 

Was the guy a complete stranger?
The fact that she went back to his place at all tells you she planned to do it.

This is tough, It’s good that she confessed. That’s a good sign. But still hard to get your head around it.

Has she gone on a lot of these girls trips with this particular friend? Are you concerned at all about any past events? Are you concerned at all about there being more to the story (ie…not their first time)?

As far as getting past this… it sucks. There’s no shortcut to make it easier. Talking it out here, going to marriage counseling, talking to trusted friends can help. But the pain, anger, mistrust…it’s gonna be a long while and you may never get over it.

Has she been helpful in the sense of answering any quesitons you have, being understanding when you get triggered, etc? Any resistance there can make things worse for you.

And yea for sure that friend had to go. Good call there. Whose idea was that? It would be great if it was your wife’s idea.

I’m sorry you’re here but a lot of wonderful people will be along shortly. Stick around and talk to them. It will help.


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## QuietRiot

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it


Someone who doesn't know why they do something is not a safe person. Either she knows that she just wanted to try out someone new and she wont admit it, or she doesn't know and needs counseling to figure it out. "I was drinking" is not an excuse for this in my opinion. I have drank and never felt the desire to screw a strange man from a bar.


Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me.


It's not a feeling sir, it's a fact. She did in FACT betray you.


Tbumgarner12 said:


> In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed.


Your heart is not to be trusted, that's why your mind is depressed. Your heart believed she'd never sleep with a guy from a bar to begin with. Look where you are now. Denial of your appropriate emotions and feelings about being stabbed in the back are what will keep you from healing.


Tbumgarner12 said:


> I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage.


Why shouldn't you second guess yourself for trusting someone that betrayed you and question EVERYTHING? Let's say she got the inkling one day to run you over with the family car. She didn't know 'what came over her'. You're in the hospital in a body cast. Would you lay there and think, "I need to get over this and start walking tomorrow. My bones have been broken long enough. Time to forgive and forget so we can run into the sunset tomorrow."?

I'm not saying you cannot forgive and move forward in your marriage after time and a lot of work, but you have to DO the work. She has to do the work. You have to accept and deal with the fact she did betray you terribly, in the worst way possible. You have to understand that not only should you be upset and question EVERYTHING about her and who she is, it's now HER job to be the safe partner, not your job to "get over it."

Read some stories here and I think you will find understanding and support in your situation. Your feelings, sadness and emotions are not wrong, do not try to talk yourself out of them or rugsweep this situation because you are hurting. There is no easy way around the hurt, no matter what you do, you have to go through it.


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## Tdbo

It sounds like she is off to a good start.
However, I would insist that she truly do the hard work to find out and correct what inside her allowed her to commit that kind of betrayal.
If I were you, I would vet counselors that specialize in infidelity in your area, pick the two that you are most comfortable with, and give her a choice of them. I would also request that she sign off on allowing you to contact the therapist, not for the specifics of the sessions, but to insure that she is attending and following through.
I would also insist on a post nuptual contract, favorable to you should she reoffend. The purpose of this IMO is that if she is willing to do this, then she is really showing true remorse and is willing to put her future where her mouth is.
I would purchase this book for her:









How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair


As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...



www.goodreads.com





You should familiarize yourself with it and give it to her to read. She needs to use this as a basis to work hard to regain trust in your marriage. If you are willing to give her the grace of a second chance, you need to hold her accountable for cleaning up her mess , making reparations to you, and laying the foundations for a stronger relationship.
Best of luck.


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## re16

Tbumgarner12 said:


> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better


It is way to soon to be wanting to improve your marriage... she just cheated on you.

Did she contact this guy afterward?

Seeing this over and over around here... there is a reason she told you and it is very unlikely it is guilt... she thought you were going to find out, maybe someone threatened to tell.

Does this other girlfriend of hers have a significant other also?

I would start with asking her about her history of cheating, see what she says (which will be an emphatic ' I would never'), have her write down a timeline of what happened.

After she has done that, tell her that she is going to be taking a polygraph. Doesn't have to be a real appointment, drive to a parking lot and arrive 30 mins before 'the appoinment'.... she what she confesses to...

If the story doesn't change after that... maybe you have a chance... but I can guarantee it will change.


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## Tbumgarner12

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m sorry to hear about this @Tbumgarner12
> 
> Was the guy a complete stranger?
> The fact that she went back to his place at all tells you she planned to do it.
> 
> This is tough, It’s good that she confessed. That’s a good sign. But still hard to get your head around it.
> 
> Has she gone on a lot of these girls trips with this particular friend? Are you concerned at all about any past events? Are you concerned at all about there being more to the story (ie…not their first time)?
> 
> As far as getting past this… it sucks. There’s no shortcut to make it easier. Talking it out here, going to marriage counseling, talking to trusted friends can help. But the pain, anger, mistrust…it’s gonna be a long while and you may never get over it.
> 
> Has she been helpful in the sense of answering any quesitons you have, being understanding when you get triggered, etc? Any resistance there can make things worse for you.
> 
> And yea for sure that friend had to go. Good call there. Whose idea was that? It would be great if it was your wife’s idea.
> 
> I’m sorry you’re here but a lot of wonderful people will be along shortly. Stick around and talk to them. It will help.


Her and the friend left the bar and went to a house with several other people girls and guys as the night went on everyone left and she said the friend was in a room with another guy. It was her idea to not hangout with the friend anymore. But she takes full blame and not blaming alcohol for it. The guy was some stranger from the bar. They didnt exchange messages, email, etc.


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## ConanHub

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


Well that was pretty trashy but at least she fessed up.

Did she have sex with you after coming back?

If so, you should get yourself checked out as well.

What she did was marriage destroying but also incredibly stupid if she had unprotected sex with a random guy picked up in a bar.

If she came home and had sex with you, that was endangering you.

Get checked. Even if she didn't catch something, doesn't mean you didn't.

As far as you overcoming her retardation and betrayal, that takes a lot of time and work from both of you.

It sounds like some good boundaries are being put in place. She needs to totally own this and do the heavy lifting in the relationship for years.

You both need to be able to talk through your feelings as often as needed so make sure to set aside time for that.

She should be willing to answer any questions and talk through things with you as often as you need to and that includes answering questions she has already answered as often as you need to ask. That's part of what it takes for you to process everything.

She could start reading books on how to help you recover from her infidelity that could help with your communication.

It's not an easy path my friend and could take years.

Successful reconciliation can easily take between 2-5 years of work to get back to at least feeling safe, good, normal, etc.

You do need to determine what the hell happened, why it happened now and why it didn't happen before and why won't it happen again?

Those are important questions to have answered.

She obviously has it in her to blatantly cheat. She made a whole series of decision to leave a public place with this guy and she knew damn well what was going to happen and she didn't change course.

She obviously also felt like **** the next day about it so there is that.

I'm sorry you find yourself here under these circumstances and you have a lot of work ahead of you which isn't your fault or fair.


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## Tbumgarner12

no contact was made after.


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## Rus47

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex.


So after 18 years of marriage, it only took a visit to a bar with a friend to go back to a guys house? Was the guy who banged her another guy who also went to the house? You have two women and at least one man. Are you sure this wasnt a group sex session?

it didn’t take much for her to climb over the fence. I would submit you likely dont know the full extent of what happened and this may not be the first time she did something similar. Cheaters always lie and minimuxe


Tbumgarner12 said:


> In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed.


Actually based on her behavior it is highly likely she will do this again. Our hearts lie to us. Trust your gut and your brain. Not your heart. Think back to other times she went out drinking with the girls. Anything suspicious recalled? Did she know these two (?) men? How was her gf connected to them?



QuietRiot said:


> Someone who doesn't know why they do something is not a safe person.


Exactly.


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## Openminded

Reconciliation is the most difficult thing you will ever do. It could take years to rebuild your marriage and there will be plenty of ups and downs during that time. Some people do recover but many do not — they just can’t overcome what’s been done. Time will tell if you can. I wish you well.


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## Sfort

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Her and the friend left the bar and went to a house with several other people girls and guys as the night went on everyone left and she said the friend was in a room with another guy.


At this point, she should have left the house immediately. You're getting some trickle truth. That may be okay for you, but you have a long and painful road ahead of you.


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## BeyondRepair007

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Her and the friend left the bar and went to a house with several other people girls and guys as the night went on everyone left and she said the friend was in a room with another guy. It was her idea to not hangout with the friend anymore. But she takes full blame and not blaming alcohol for it. The guy was some stranger from the bar. They didnt exchange messages, email, etc.


Are there any kids in the picture?
What about previous trips with this gf? Anything suspicious there in retrospect?

You know she went to the house party with the idea in mind, they were likely very friendly at the bar.

It sounds like your wife is doing the right things now...but this will take you a long time to deal with.
Just make 100% sure you have the full truth, don't trust your feelings about it.

In my experience, only then can you start to come to terms with it.
But if you have any doubts or she changes any part of the story, that clock will restart every single day.


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## blackclover3

@Tbumgarner12 
this is was planned action - everyone knows - you guy to bars to get drunk and hang out with opposite sex for a reason. I bet you anything that this just didnt happen. she had her mind set before even going to the bar to get f*cked. found the guy, suits her taste, drank to make it easier and kissed. went to the house knowing that she will sleep with the guy when an opportunity a rise. 
after she F him she felt guilty and may be had a little argument with friend she was afraid that her friend will tell you first. 

this is just didnt happen out of the blue - had she not felt guilty she would have kept it a secret or even met the guy again. 

I'm sorry to say this, but she was looking for ONS at least once to release her fantasy to admin it later to you forgive her (she knows that you will forgive her)


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## hplove

You guys should get therapy, and it will be a lot of work, You both have to put this behind you if is going to work.


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## BeyondRepair007

Tbumgarner12 said:


> no contact was made after.


I have a feeling that you wouldn't really know if there was contact after.

I'm not saying there was... but you need to quit believing everything she tells you, even if it's the truth.
You need to _start_ believing what you can verify. At least for a while.

Your wife has proven herself untrustworthy so just believe that for a time.
When you start to heal then you can bring that back.

Counseling counseling counseling.


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## BigDaddyNY

I know this is an I told you so, but this is why I think it is ALWAYS a bad idea for married people to have a girls or boys weekends of partying and drinking. It isn't married behavior, period.

How could the love of your life after 18 years be so easily lured into a ONS? Because she was horny and didn't give two ****s about you in that moment. She made the choice to go away without you, get drunk, flirt with a stranger, go back to a stranger's house, kiss a stranger, follow a stranger to the bedroom and ****ed him. Then she probably lied to your face several times between then and confessing. You probably asked her how the weekend was and while the other man's sperm was still swimming around inside her she fed you some line of crap. How can you be so certain she won't do it again? I mean you were certain prior to this, right? You will never ever be able to trust her the same way again. You will never be able to get the picture of her giving herself to a man she met only a few hours prior. She behaved like a total ****. She unilaterally decided your marriage vows no longer applied. That will now be permanently burned into your brain. Can you live with that?


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## blackclover3

@Tbumgarner12 the fact that it has been only 3 weeks and you already made a decision to stay together and work on the relation proves my point that your wife knows for a fact you will forgive her if she had an affair or ONS. 

one question and im sure you can answer, what if you are the one who had the ONS? would she have stayed and decided within 3 weeks she want to work on the relationship?


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## Tbumgarner12

Tdbo said:


> It sounds like she is off to a good start.
> However, I would insist that she truly do the hard work to find out and correct what inside her allowed her to commit that kind of betrayal.
> If I were you, I would vet counselors that specialize in infidelity in your area, pick the two that you are most comfortable with, and give her a choice of them. I would also request that she sign off on allowing you to contact the therapist, not for the specifics of the sessions, but to insure that she is attending and following through.
> I would also insist on a post nuptual contract, favorable to you should she reoffend. The purpose of this IMO is that if she is willing to do this, then she is really showing true remorse and is willing to put her future where her mouth is.
> I would purchase this book for her:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair
> 
> 
> As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...
> 
> 
> 
> www.goodreads.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should familiarize yourself with it and give it to her to read. She needs to use this as a basis to work hard to regain trust in your marriage. If you are willing to give her the grace of a second chance, you need to hold her accountable for cleaning up her mess , making reparations to you, and laying the foundations for a stronger relationship.
> Best of luck.


Thank you


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## Andy1001

Her friend telling her not to tell you about the cheating because the friendship would be over puzzle’s me. I think you’ve been fed a load of bs here buddy. 
In my opinion this was going on for a while and for whatever reason your wife and her friend fell out. She fessed up because A. her friend threatened to tell you and B she needed an excuse for why they weren’t friends anymore.


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## Tbumgarner12

blackclover3 said:


> @Tbumgarner12 the fact that it has been only 3 weeks and you already made a decision to stay together and work on the relation proves my point that your wife knows for a fact you will forgive her if she had an affair or ONS.
> 
> one question and im sure you can answer, what if you are the one who had the ONS? would she have stayed and decided within 3 weeks she want to work on the relationship?


I agree I should clarify I’m willing to try and work it out and not make any type of decision. I believe it’s heading in the right direction anything I ask she tells me and knows its going to be a long road for me trusting her again, but it could be the end of my marriage also.


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## RebuildingMe

You definitely have to dig deeper. You probably have less than 10% of the full story right now. You’ll never get 100%, but almost always YOU have to do the work to find the missing pieces.

Then decide if you can live with that. Most cannot, but will stay in the marriage out of fear. Make the right choice with all the information, not just the crumbs she’s spoon feeding you the last three weeks.


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## *Deidre*

Whenever I read threads like this, where the husband or wife get a night or two out with friends, and then have sex with someone randomly...I'm wondering if they feel ''trapped'' in their marriages. Not that they are trapped, but reckless behavior is usually a sign of something else, in my opinion.

It's good your wife confessed and seems remorseful. But, it's still so fresh, and it will take time. But, ONS usually aren't as random as they seem. Something may be very off with your wife lately, and she has never shared any discontent, and then the opportunity was there, and she took it. I've never been so drunk that I've had sex with another guy, let's just say that. You don't just trip and end up in someone's bed by mistake. But, if I were discontent or feeling trapped in my marriage, _and_ out drunk with friends...who knows what I might do? Cheating is a deal breaker for me and my husband, but I don't judge your wife as though I don't understand why these things happen. 

I know OP, you're going to hear how happy she is with you, doesn't want to lose you, etc...but that could be the hysterical bonding/knee-jerk reaction of potentially losing you and the marriage that scares her right now, and she's not admitting to you that there's something inside going on, that she still needs to explore more. And it doesn't mean that you have trapped her...that's not what I mean. But, you married young, and she may feel she ''missed out'' on some fun in her 20's. Who knows, only she knows. But, I don't think it was planned...as much as it is a symptom of something going on that you shouldn't ignore.

So, in counseling, if you go that route...she needs to sort that out. ''I was drunk'' is a bs lazy response to something this devastating to a relationship, and is not a valid excuse, to me. The fact that she is sorry, and is taking ownership though is very good...we don't get too many of those types on TAM. lol

Just don't be too quick to just jump back into everyday life as though this will blow over, and she'll never do it again. If she doesn't open up as to why she honestly betrayed you like that, it could happen again. Just my opinion, fwiw.


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## Tbumgarner12

Andy1001 said:


> Her friend telling her not to tell you about the cheating because the friendship would be over puzzle’s me. I think you’ve been fed a load of bs here buddy.
> In my opinion this was going on for a while and for whatever reason your wife and her friend fell out. She fessed up because A. her friend threatened to tell you and B she needed an excuse for why they weren’t friends anymore.





QuietRiot said:


> Someone who doesn't know why they do something is not a safe person. Either she knows that she just wanted to try out someone new and she wont admit it, or she doesn't know and needs counseling to figure it out. "I was drinking" is not an excuse for this in my opinion. I have drank and never felt the desire to screw a strange man from a bar.
> 
> It's not a feeling sir, it's a fact. She did in FACT betray you.
> 
> Your heart is not to be trusted, that's why your mind is depressed. Your heart believed she'd never sleep with a guy from a bar to begin with. Look where you are now. Denial of your appropriate emotions and feelings about being stabbed in the back are what will keep you from healing.
> 
> Why shouldn't you second guess yourself for trusting someone that betrayed you and question EVERYTHING? Let's say she got the inkling one day to run you over with the family car. She didn't know 'what came over her'. You're in the hospital in a body cast. Would you lay there and think, "I need to get over this and start walking tomorrow. My bones have been broken long enough. Time to forgive and forget so we can run into the sunset tomorrow."?
> 
> I'm not saying you cannot forgive and move forward in your marriage after time and a lot of work, but you have to DO the work. She has to do the work. You have to accept and deal with the fact she did betray you terribly, in the worst way possible. You have to understand that not only should you be upset and question EVERYTHING about her and who she is, it's now HER job to be the safe partner, not your job to "get over it."
> 
> Read some stories here and I think you will find understanding and support in your situation. Your feelings, sadness and emotions are not wrong, do not try to talk yourself out of them or rugsweep this situation because you are hurting. There is no easy way around the hurt, no matter what you do, you have to go through it.


Agreed, moving forward will take a lot of time and work from both of us.


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## Tbumgarner12

RebuildingMe said:


> You definitely have to dig deeper. You probably have less than 10% of the full story right now. You’ll never get 100%, but almost always YOU have to do the work to find the missing pieces.
> 
> Then decide if you can live with that. Most cannot, but will stay in the marriage out of fear. Make the right choice with all the information, not just the crumbs she’s spoon feeding you the last three weeks.


Thank you. I have questions that need to be answered.


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## Tbumgarner12

*Deidre* said:


> Whenever I read threads like this, where the husband or wife get a night or two out with friends, and then have sex with someone randomly...I'm wondering if they feel ''trapped'' in their marriages. Not that they are trapped, but reckless behavior is usually a sign of something else, in my opinion.
> 
> It's good your wife confessed and seems remorseful. But, it's still so fresh, and it will take time. But, ONS usually aren't as random as they seem. Something may be very off with your wife lately, and she has never shared any discontent, and then the opportunity was there, and she took it. I've never been so drunk that I've had sex with another guy, let's just say that. You don't just trip and end up in someone's bed by mistake. But, if I were discontent or feeling trapped in my marriage, _and_ out drunk with friends...who knows what I might do? Cheating is a deal breaker for me and my husband, but I don't judge your wife as though I don't understand why these things happen.
> 
> I know OP, you're going to hear how happy she is with you, doesn't want to lose you, etc...but that could be the hysterical bonding/knee-jerk reaction of potentially losing you and the marriage that scares her right now, and she's not admitting to you that there's something inside going on, that she still needs to explore more. And it doesn't mean that you have trapped her...that's not what I mean. But, you married young, and she may feel she ''missed out'' on some fun in her 20's. Who knows, only she knows. But, I don't think it was planned...as much as it is a symptom of something going on that you shouldn't ignore.
> 
> So, in counseling, if you go that route...she needs to sort that out. ''I was drunk'' is a bs lazy response to something this devastating to a relationship, and is not a valid excuse, to me. The fact that she is sorry, and is taking ownership though is very good...we don't get too many of those types on TAM. lol
> 
> Just don't be too quick to just jump back into everyday life as though this will blow over, and she'll never do it again. If she doesn't open up as to why she honestly betrayed you like that, it could happen again. Just my opinion, fwiw.


Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


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## Rus47

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Her and the friend left the bar and went to a house with several other people girls and guys as the night went on everyone left and she said the friend was in a room with another guy. It was her idea to not hangout with the friend anymore. But she takes full blame and not blaming alcohol for it. The guy was some stranger from the bar. They didnt exchange messages, email, etc.


So she went to a house with a bunch of peiple, ended with her gf in anothet room with a man and wife in another room with some unknown to her man? Sounds very unlikely on many levels. Here I am betting it was two women and two men in same room, everyone did everything in every way possible.

Someone threatened to tell you is why she got in front of it. The tip of iceberg is only 10% of what is there.


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## Tbumgarner12

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.





Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


She didn’t blame the drinking but said she had been drinking. She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part. I agree I don’t think it was planned out but as some point probably at the house when everyone left she knew better than to stay in that situation and didn’t stop it from happening.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

ConanHub said:


> Well that was pretty trashy but at least she fessed up.
> 
> Did she have sex with you after coming back?
> 
> If so, you should get yourself checked out as well.
> 
> What she did was marriage destroying but also incredibly stupid if she had unprotected sex with a random guy picked up in a bar.
> 
> If she came home and had sex with you, that was endangering you.
> 
> Get checked. Even if she didn't catch something, doesn't mean you didn't.
> 
> As far as you overcoming her retardation and betrayal, that takes a lot of time and work from both of you.
> 
> It sounds like some good boundaries are being put in place. She needs to totally own this and do the heavy lifting in the relationship for years.
> 
> You both need to be able to talk through your feelings as often as needed so make sure to set aside time for that.
> 
> She should be willing to answer any questions and talk through things with you as often as you need to and that includes answering questions she has already answered as often as you need to ask. That's part of what it takes for you to process everything.
> 
> She could start reading books on how to help you recover from her infidelity that could help with your communication.
> 
> It's not an easy path my friend and could take years.
> 
> Successful reconciliation can easily take between 2-5 years of work to get back to at least feeling safe, good, normal, etc.
> 
> You do need to determine what the hell happened, why it happened now and why it didn't happen before and why won't it happen again?
> 
> Those are important questions to have answered.
> 
> She obviously has it in her to blatantly cheat. She made a whole series of decision to leave a public place with this guy and she knew damn well what was going to happen and she didn't change course.
> 
> She obviously also felt like shyt the next day about it so there is that.
> 
> I'm sorry you find yourself here under these circumstances and you have a lot of work ahead of you which isn't your fault or fair.


Thank you! I agree she had several stop signs that night she went right through. I wouldn’t wish this mess on my worst enemy.


----------



## *Deidre*

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


Yea, I imagine it's hard. You may never fully learn ''why.'' She may not fully know why, because she has been discontent with her life...felt the grass might be greener somewhere else...bored...whatever it might be. It's a deal breaker for me, not because I wouldn't be able to forgive, but because I would become someone I wouldn't want to be...it would forever change how I saw my husband. It may be that way for you, too. Only time will tell where you both end up with this.

Just be careful. That's all. And stay observant around social media. Your wife sounds remorseful, but just be careful.


----------



## Jimi007

You need to have a chat with her friend....


----------



## Tdbo

Rus47 said:


> So she went to a house with a bunch of peiple, ended with her gf in anothet room with a man and wife in another room with some unknown to her man? Sounds very unlikely on many levels. Here I am betting it was two women and two men in same room, everyone did everything in every way possible.
> 
> Someone threatened to tell you is why she got in front of it. The tip of iceberg is only 10% of what is there.


The next question: Is the GF married?
Perhaps some of the reason for the GF not wanting the wife to tell the OP is that the GF did not want the info getting back to her husband.
The GF was the one that said the friendship would be over if the wife told the OP.
Ending the friendship would be one way for the GF to embargo the information, and keep it from getting back to someone, namely the GF's husband.


----------



## gameopoly5

Sorry* Tbumgarner12 *but your wife is a loose canon.
She is an uncontrollable person and obviously is unable to control herself.
Your wife cannot be trusted and likely she has cheated before during the marriage. You cannot believe anything she says. That`s the reality of the situation.
If a partner truly loves you, no one could ever steal that partner away, short time or otherwise, *NEVER.*
If my wife done this to me she`d be out the front door followed by all her stuff in bin bags within 10 minutes.
Sorry this has happened to you, but your wife is soiled and has soiled the marriage.
If it were me, divorce would be imminent. 
Good luck if you decide to forgive her, but I`m sure you know the score if you do.
Your always have trust issues and insecurities for the remainder of your married life.
As I said; good luck.


----------



## colingrant

I believe for the most part a WW doesn't always plan these things out, but it's because they don't have to. The guys will do it for them. The WW just have to feign "innoncence" or "not thinking clearly" and most husbands will begrudgingly buy it claiming the wife was preyed upon. They then team up to create a us vs him scenario and then embark upon a way to reconcile.

There's more underlying. She needed to satisfy the curiosity that comes with being married at 19 and missing the period of freedom to explore in her 20's. This describes the "what came over her" remark. You may or may not have a reconciliation candidate, but I'm inclined to think she may be solely on what you have provided. BUT, unfortunately it's highly unlikely you'll ever see her the same way and you'll just have to live with it even if you madly succeed at reconciling.

It's different knowing another man has been "there". Have you ever declined drinking from a bottle after someone else has offered a sip even though you're thirsty? Ever refuse to take a bite from a sandwich because someone else had already bitten into it. For some that's what it's like going in after someone else has entered your best friends body. In time, you will overcome this, but the memory of having someone else there that she actually allowed to happen makes for an emotionally tough period for a while. Just being real here.

With all that said, based on what you've provided I see no reason why you can't successfully reconcile as a couple. I think what's most important is reconciling with yourself after knowing the above. Nothing can be done to reverse or even redefine the experience, so your only choice is to learn how to accept and live with it. I wish you and your wife successful healing and happiness. It can happen.


----------



## Marc878

She has a boundary issue. If you walk on the ledge you can fall off. If you don’t you can’t. 
Repeated infidelity happens. Sorry but she has some work to do. 
Having friends where this type of behavior happens is a problem. If you lay around with dogs you get up with fleas. Unless she completely changes her friends and lifestyle she can’t be trusted.


----------



## drencrom

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me.


She DID betray you.



> She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it


She knows what came over her, she just doesn't want to admit it. She did what she did because she wanted it. She thinks you are stupid.



> In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


Well, I'll dispense with the "don't trust the cheater again" usual advice. Instead I will say hold her to never hanging out with those friends, and no more bars, etc. She is a wife and should act like one.

So if she ever goes out with friends, never the one that she was with when that happened, and none that are party girls. And the night should consist of activities like going to the movies and dinner.

NO BARS, NO NIGHTCLUBS, or any activity where the main reason to engage is to hook up with other people.

Also, you should now get to track her whereabouts at all times. Use the phones SMS tracking option or some other app.


----------



## drencrom

Marc878 said:


> She has a boundary issue. If you walk on the ledge you can fall off. If you don’t you can’t.
> Repeated infidelity happens. Sorry but she has some work to do.
> Having friends where this type of behavior happens is a problem. If you lay around with dogs you get up with fleas. Unless she completely changes her friends and lifestyle she can’t be trusted.


And of course she regretted it AFTER it happened. She didn't regret it WHILE it was happening.


----------



## drencrom

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I have a feeling that you wouldn't really know if there was contact after.


There may not have been any, but @Tbumgarner12, you are within your rights to verify. Do you have full access to her email account? Texts, phone calls? If not, demand it.


----------



## drencrom

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Agreed, moving forward will take a lot of time and work from both of us.


A s**tload more work from her rather than you though.


----------



## drencrom

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She didn’t blame the drinking but said she had been drinking. She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part. I agree I don’t think it was planned out but as some point probably at the house when everyone left she knew better than to stay in that situation and didn’t stop it from happening.


Once it was a matter of leaving the bar to all go to someone's house....at that point it was planned out. They knew what they were doing and what was going to happen especially after he kissed her in the bar. She wanted it and went for it and when the fun time was over, then she regretted it. 

Well, no more girl's night out for that little philly.


----------



## Marc878

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


First of all you feel betrayed because she did betray you. I’d bet you never thought she’d ever cheat in the first place so how would you know she wouldn’t do it again? You don’t.
Forgiveness isn’t something you can just do. It takes time and she needs to work on becoming a safe wife. Her current lifestyle, friends, etc. are now suspect. If she doesn’t change that it’s a major problem.
Married women shouldn’t be hanging around other men or with friends that do. 
What’s she going to do to fix this?
Its actions that count. Not words.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

drencrom said:


> There may not have been any, but @Tbumgarner12, you are within your rights to verify. Do you have full access to her email account? Texts, phone calls? If not, demand it.


Yes, even before any of this happened I could pick up her phone and look at anything I wanted.


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## Marc878

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Agreed, moving forward will take a lot of time and work from both of us.


She needs to be carrying the heavy load here. Not you. Stop acting like you are part of the problem.
I would say you are way too trusting. Her behavior is that of a single woman. She should know better but obviously doesn’t. Look what that got you.


----------



## Marc878

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yes, even before any of this happened I could pick up her phone and look at anything I wanted.


I would not stay married to someone I had to be a marriage warden too. Marriage should not be this hard.
I would find out if the other man is married and if so inform his poor wife.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

Marc878 said:


> First of all you feel betrayed because she did betray you. I’d bet you never thought she’d ever cheat in the first place so how would you know she wouldn’t do it again? You don’t.
> Forgiveness isn’t something you can just do. It takes time and she needs to work on becoming a safe wife. Her current lifestyle, friends, etc. are now suspect. If she doesn’t change that it’s a major problem.
> Married women shouldn’t be hanging around other men or with friends that do.
> What’s she going to do to fix this?
> Its actions that count. Not words.


 she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

Marc878 said:


> I would not stay married to someone I had to be a marriage warden too. Marriage should not be this hard.
> I would find out if the other man is married and if so inform his poor wife.


I agree I would pick up her phone if we was driving, taking photos, looking up something on the internet, etc. I can’t stay married to her if I feel like a marriage warden that’s not going to work for me


----------



## Marc878

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


She needs to figure out why her behavior and choice of friends led her to engage in this behavior. If she doesn’t fix that repeats happen.


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## Evinrude58

I personally think you should have her move out, and file for divorce abd have her served. If she takes the new freedom and goes wild and f’s a bunch of guys….. then you know this wouldn’t be a one-time deal. If she stays at home and does nothing but work toward getting you back….. I’d give it a maybe.

I actually think that theres the remote possibility she may have remorse and you may have something to work with since she confessed. Most likely there’s a reason she did other than conscience, but it’s possible.

However, if you don’t dish out hellish consequences (she should believe you’re divorcing her because honestly, you should) what possible consequence should she have in her mind that would prevent this in the future if you do nothing but whine a little and take her back?
You can stop the divorce anytime, although you shouldn’t. 

consequences are the only thing that changes behavior. Her not going to bars or girls night out stuff—— should have been that way all along.


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## BigDigg

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


I mean...it could really just be as simple as "we met and married young and I never had a chance to really experience anything else". She's a little older...probably feeling that youth disappear...and that thought on what she's missed out on, or what else is out there...She may be perfectly happy with you and your marriage. 

If you really want to know what's on her mind and why...I'd suggest a tone of empathy and understanding as hard as that may be. You certainly don't need to accept being cheated on. I can't see you moving on and reconciling without that raw honesty.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


You need to talk to that “friend”. If she’s married, tell her husband. Also, check your phone records for numbers and texts. Your wife probably deleted a lot before, during and after this night of betrayal.


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## drencrom

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yes, even before any of this happened I could pick up her phone and look at anything I wanted.


Well as long as you are certain there is no communication between her and this guy, or any other guy, then you hold her feet to the fire as far as not going out with this friend or any other party girl friends. No more bars, nightclubs or any situation conducive to hook ups.

You now should be making sure you can track her location at all times, and she should be breaking her back to make this up to you. If she ever complains about not getting to go out, then you can tell her to pack her bags. I know she is cutting ties with this one friend, but I have a feeling it's because she just freshly f****d up. Once things have settled down, I have a feeling she is going to want to go out again and yes, bars as well. When that happens it should be ultimatum time. Her family, or disrespecting you by engaging in the same activities in which she screwed you over in the first place.



> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


Well, she may agree to this now because she is coming off fresh of getting hers. After this cools over, I'm betting she will want to be going out again.

Call is yours. Can this be salvaged? That depends on her now.


----------



## BoSlander

@Tbumgarner12 Sorry this happened to you. Some clarity:

1. This WAS planned;

2. She is telling you probably 5-10% of what truly went on;

3. Regardless of what she says, whether you put up boundaries or not, she is more likely than not going to cheat on you again and;

4. She probably did some things to the guy, sexually, that will always be off limits to you. Let that sink in.

Sadly, having had gone through a similar experience as you and read (by now) hundreds of articles on the subject as well as thousands of similar stories in this forum as well as others, the proceedings are always eerily similar. Just as with drugs, once an addict, always an addict.

If I were you I’d start working on the 180°. It’ll be hard mentally and emotionally, but you will love the you on the other side. And that YOU, the @Tbumgarner12 with bigger cojones, will most likely want to divorce her immediately.

A true wife doesn’t do what your wife did.


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## Lostinthought61

My question to you...she knew she was getting close to crossing boundaries and yet she did...she need to understand why....she needs to investigate it with a therapist and understand why she was weak


----------



## drencrom

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I would pick up her phone if we was driving, taking photos, looking up something on the internet, etc. I can’t stay married to her if I feel like a marriage warden that’s not going to work for me


Well you weren't her marriage warden and look how that turned out for you.

Look, I'm not saying you need to be her warden. But you are within your rights to know her exact whereabouts at all times now, track her with an app. I'm not saying make her stay home. Going out with friends is fine. But not the friend with similar sh***y boundaries, and not to certain venues. Movies, dinner...that's all fine. Shopping, sure. She is still a free woman, but she is a wife and needs to act like one. Not a young single floosy.


----------



## Evinrude58

drencrom said:


> Well you weren't her marriage warden and look how that turned out for you.
> 
> Look, I'm not saying you need to be her warden. But you are within your rights to know her exact whereabouts at all times now, track her with an app. I'm not saying make her stay home. Going out with friends is fine. But not the friend with similar sh***y boundaries, and not to certain venues. Movies, dinner...that's all fine. Shopping, sure. She is still a free woman, but she is a wife and needs to act like one. Not a young single floosy.


Why was she out at bars going home to other men’s homes to start off with?


----------



## Marc878

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I would pick up her phone if we was driving, taking photos, looking up something on the internet, etc. I can’t stay married to her if I feel like a marriage warden that’s not going to work for me


Exactly. If she’s going to be your wife she should act like it.
Would you go out with the guys and go back to some woman’s house that you met at a bar? People with morals and class don’t run around with trash. Which is why she has put your marriage in jeopardy.
You need to cut out the BS about trying to forgive etc. and worry more about what she’s doing to fix herself.
I’m sorry it’ll never happen again are meaningless words. Only her actions around making herself a safe wife for you count.
She cheated because she wanted to. It was a choice. A decision she made. She consciously and willingly had sex with someone else while married to you. You need to wake up to the reality of the situation.
This is a part of who she is or she wouldn’t have done it or hang around with people of low character.
There is no excuse.


----------



## drencrom

I just need to address some posts here:



> She needs to figure out why her behavior and choice of friends led her to engage in this behavior. If she doesn’t fix that repeats happen.





> she needs to investigate it with a therapist and understand why she was weak


This is no big mystery. It's real simple. 

She went to a bar, flirted with a guy because she was attracted to him, he kissed her, she got horny and wanted it, and went to an after hours for the precise outcome of seeing if she could get her sexual desires taken care of. I'm not saying this to rile up @Tbumgarner12, but this is the cold hard truth of it. 

Just saying, if there is any talk of "I don't know why I did it" or "I'm not sure why"....bulls***.


----------



## Tdbo

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I would pick up her phone if we was driving, taking photos, looking up something on the internet, etc. I can’t stay married to her if I feel like a marriage warden that’s not going to work for me


One way of looking at it is that she blew up this marriage and it is done.
The question is can she do the work, and successfully cultivate the personal growth necessary to prevent a situation where you have to be the "Marriage Warden?"
From what you have said, it is possible, but you are going to have to keep the pressure on.
You should probably vet a couple of good divorce attorneys and have one on speed dial.
You should demand her best +50% for even entertaining a second chance.
You have much "Homework" to do in this situations (phones, computers, etc.)
She needs to know you are doing this, and she should be scared.
Not scared enough to make her give up, but scared enough to know that she has one foot out the door and another is on a banana peel. You can ratchet back as she meets the benchmarks that you deem important.
She seems to be doing many of the right things (dumping the GF, no GNO's or trips, etc.) but she needs to understand that she needs to be totally transparent and learn that she will be held accountable.
After a thorough discussion (that you record and take notes of) casually mention that you reserve the right to polygraph her. Note her reaction. It will tell you what you need to know.


----------



## re16

Yea, this was a marriage ending kind of incident, and your wife needs to put the work in to fix it... it is a long process.

Honestly, sometimes those that just accept it too quickly end up appearing weak to the wife, and that never works out well.

She needs consequences for her actions.

The main thing here, is you need to fully know what you are forgiving, before you forgive it. Which means the attempt at a poly etc... You say she hasn't done this before... you need to verify that.


----------



## Marc878

I wouldn’t put the cart before the horse. OP is this something you can live with long term? Thats the big question. Infidelity is a life long gift. What you probably want is for it never to have happened. That ship has sailed. 
Too many jump in without thinking.


----------



## re16

Tbumgarner12 said:


> . They didnt exchange messages, email, etc.


Based on what, your wife's word? You need to realize that cheaters lie, it is a fundamental part of the whole thing. I guarantee you don't have the whole story yet.


----------



## gameopoly5

Marc878 said:


> A lot jump right into R (rugsweep) without thinking. Take your time and think this through.
> Most are in shock upfront and don’t think straight. Very normal.


In the cases I dealt with when after a wife cheated the couple decided to reconcile, the husbands were concerned with everywhere their wives went without them and who they were talking or texting to. Who would want to live like that?
And in about 90% of these cases the wives went on to cheat again.
I am only giving the OP some professional advice of what to expect, insecurity wise and to keep a descret sharp eye on his wife`s activities.
As I said, if my wife done this to me it would be divorce.
The OP has a lot to take into consideration, but painful and sad nevertheless, I fully understand.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her *but I need to get over and forgive her* so we can move forward in our marriage.


No you don't. The one single thing a wife absolutely owes her husband in a marriage is her fidelity, period. The worst form of disrespect a wife can show her husband is to let another man inside her.

Your wife knows this too and she knew this every step of the way, yet she decided to spit on your dignity and person by flirting with another man, take a sledge-hammer to your bond by kissing another man, burn your sacred vows by undressing with another man and lastly nuking your marriage by letting him inside her.

Yep, she nuked the marriage and she did so willingly and willfully, knowing each step of the way exactly what she was doing to you and your marriage and she didn't care.

You don't have "to get over and forgive her". You need to be able to face yourself in the mirror each morning and be proud of the man you see.

In your shoes (which with variation I did find myself in 2 decades + ago), I would have considered her taking another man's penis inside, a de-facto divorce (which I did).

It's okay if this is a deal-breaker for you, there is no moral obligation to your wife anymore. As a matter of fact, there is no marriage to your wife anymore for even if you "reconcile", the marriage you had is dead. Any further relationship with her would have to be a new marriage, built on a new relationship with new negotiated rules and boundaries and this will take years to build.

Would you have married an adulteress, knowing upfront that this is who she is? Not many men would answer yes, yet here we are, you have married one. The question now is, do you really want to stay married to an adulteress?

Well, no matter what you decide, you will have to live with your choice.

As I said earlier, you have no more moral obligations towards her, you need to take care of only one person now, yourself (the exception being kids, but you have not mentioned any).

Anyhow, it's much to fresh too even start thinking of rebuilding. You have been ripped apart as a man and before you allow time for yourself to heal, you are in no state to even start thinking of rebuilding.

If the marriage were a house, she blew it up with you inside. You need time in the hospital and if she wants that house (the marriage) back, she needs to start lifting bricks and applying mortar without your help and while doing so, tend to your every need while you are in hospital. Personally, I would have barred her from visiting me in hospital and told her not to bother with the house, but people differ and that's me.



Tbumgarner12 said:


> Agreed, moving forward will take a lot of time and work from both of us.


You have no need to do work to rebuild, you broke nothing. She divorced you in a visceral manner that night. If she wants you back, she needs to crawl through broken glass to get to you, that's the only way she'll ever respect you again.

You make her do the work, you make her earn you back.



Tbumgarner12 said:


> Thank you. I have questions that need to be answered.


Realize that you have seen only the tip of the ice-berg, there is much more to her extra-curricular activities than what you know. I have yet to come across an exception to this, this early out.

You also need to realize that you will never get the full truth. It's up to you if you can live with this or not.

Pivotal to your sustained mental health is to not believe anything she tells you before you have verified it for yourself. Finding out new truths and uncovering lies sends your healing right back to day 1 with all the pain renewed.

You would be a fool to trust her right now. I wouldn't even trust that guilt made her confess. It's more likely that something happened that would have lead you to find out eventually and she just sped in ahead of the truth reaching you through other means.



Tbumgarner12 said:


> She didn’t blame the drinking but said she had been drinking. She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part. I agree I don’t think it was planned out but as some point probably at the house when everyone left she knew better than to stay in that situation and didn’t stop it from happening.


How many chances did she have to stop this from happening? She could have stopped the flirting, she could have told him to keep his hands to himself the first time he touched her. She could have slapped him when he leaned in for a kiss (or did she lean in?), she could have not unbuttoned that first button, not unfastened that bra, not dropped those knickers.

No, she had plenty of chances to stop this and not only did she not stop it, but she gleefully and with gusto performed for this other man.

The fact that she might not have had this in mind a week prior means nothing whatsoever. She just gave away what should have been sacred between you two as-if it was worthless and that is exactly what she made your intimacy by her chain of choices, worthless.



Jimi007 said:


> You need to have a chat with her friend....


And you need to do so behind her back and without warning. There must be no chance for them to co-ordinate stories and concoct excuses and lies.
-----------------------

This post was harsh, I'm sorry, I know the pain you feel, I've felt it before. I just needed to give you some cold, hard facts.

Whether divorce or reconciliation, I wish you the best, but you need to realize, you are still far too injured to commit to a marriage so freshly annihilated.

The wise man would start divorce, if she can win you back (not the injured man you are now, but a future, more whole you), the divorce can always be stopped or you can marry her again, who knows?

Accept however that this marriage is gone and offering your wife safe harbor whilst she was the one who blew it up without severe consequences, simply erodes any respect she might still have for you and will in-fact create a chasm between you, wider than it is now as she moves away from whom she does not respect.

Good luck OP, I mean it. One step at a time, one day at a time. But the first thing you need to do now is heal yourself before you can even think about this wrecked marriage or the woman who wrecked it.


----------



## re16

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part.


The currency of any affair (short or long) is trading compliments & validation for sex.

Typically one of the primary reasons females cheat is they desire male validation. This desire for validation, her liking this guy paying attention to her, is a bad trait in a wife. It was a stronger emotion than anything that had to do with your multi decade marriage... be warned, this is a big issue.


----------



## re16

Dictum Veritas said:


> No you don't. The one single thing a wife absolutely owed her husband in a marriage is her fidelity, period. The worst form of disrespect a wife can show her husband is to let another man inside her.
> 
> Your wife knows this too and she knew this every step of the way, yet she decided to spit on your dignity and person by flirting with another man, take a sledge-hammer to your bond by kissing another man, burn your sacred vows by undressing with another man and lastly nuking your marriage by letting him inside her.
> 
> Yep, she nuked the marriage and she did so willfully, knowing each step of the way exactly what she was doing to you and your marriage and she didn't care.
> 
> You don't "to get over and forgive her". You need to be able to face yourself in the mirror each morning and be proud of the man you see.
> 
> In your shoes (which with variation I did find myself in 2 decades + ago), I would have considered her taking another man's penis inside, a de-facto divorce (which I did).
> 
> It's okay if this is a deal-breaker for you, there is no moral obligation to your wife anymore. As a matter of fact, there is no marriage to your wife anymore for even if you "reconcile", the marriage you had is dead. Any further relationship with her would have to be a new marriage, built on a new relationship with new negotiated rules and boundaries and this will take years to build.
> 
> Would you have married an adulteress, knowing upfront that this is who she is? Not many men would answer yes, yet here we are, you have married one. The question now is, do you really want to stay married to an adulteress?
> 
> Well, no matter what you decide, you will have to live with your choice.
> 
> As I said earlier, you have no more moral obligations towards her, you need to take care of only one person now, yourself (the exception being kids, but you have not mentioned any).
> 
> Anyhow, it's much to fresh to even start thinking of rebuilding. You have been ripped apart as a man and before you allow time for yourself to heal, you are in no state to even start thinking of rebuilding.
> 
> If the marriage were a house, she blew it up with you inside. You need time in the hospital and if she wants that house (the marriage) back, she needs to start lifting bricks and applying mortar without your help and while doing so, tend to your every need while you are in hospital. Personally, I would have barred her from visiting me in hospital and told her not to bother with the house, but people differ and that's me.
> 
> 
> You have no need to do work to rebuild, you broke nothing. She divorced you in a visceral manner that night. If she wants you back, she needs to crawl through broken glass to get to you, that's the only way she'll ever respect you again.
> 
> You make her do the work you make her earn you back.
> 
> 
> Realize that you have seen only the tip of the ice-berg, there is much more to her extra-curricular than what you know. I have yet to come across an exception to this, this early out.
> 
> You also need to realize that you will never get the full truth. It's up to you if you can live with this or not.
> 
> Pivotal to your sustained mental health is to not believe anything she tells you before you have verified it for yourself. Finding out new truths and uncovering lies sends your healing right back to day 1 with all the pain renewed.
> 
> You would be a fool to trust her right now. I wouldn't even trust that guilt made her confess. It's more likely that something happened that would have lead you to find out eventually and she just sped in ahead of the truth reaching you through other means.
> 
> 
> How many chances did she have to stop this from happening. She could have stopped the flirting, she could have told him to keep his hands to himself the first time he touched her. She could have slapped him when he leaned in for a kiss (or did she lean in?), she could have not unbuttoned that first button, not unfastened that bra, not dropped those knickers.
> 
> No, she had plenty of chances to stop this and not only did she not stop it, but she gleefully and with gusto performed for this other man.
> 
> The fact that she might not have had this in mind a week prior means nothing whatsoever. She just gave away what should have been sacred between you two as-if it was worthless and that is exactly what she made your intimacy by her chain of choices, worthless.
> 
> 
> And you need to do so behind her back and without warning. There must be no chance for them to co-ordinate stories and concoct excuses and lies.
> -----------------------
> 
> This post was harsh, I'm sorry, I know the pain you feel, I've felt it before. I just needed to give you some cold, hard facts.
> 
> Whether divorce or reconciliation, I wish you the best, but you need to realize, you are still far too injured to commit to a marriage so freshly annihilated.
> 
> The wise man would start divorce, if she can win you back (not the injured man you are now, but a future, more whole you), the divorce can always be stopped or you can marry her again, who knows?
> 
> Accept however that this marriage is gone and offering your wife safe harbor whilst she was the one who blew it up without severe consequences, simply erodes any respect she might still have for you and will in-fact create a chasm between you, wider than it is now as she moves away from whom she does not respect.
> 
> Good luck OP, I mean it. One step at a time, one day at a time. But the first thing you need to do now is heal yourself before you can even think about this wrecked marriage or the woman who wrecked it.


This is solid advice... read it now, and then keep coming back to it as new perspectives and new information are revealed. We're not looking to be harsh, but with most of us having dealt with this before, the collective knowledge of what will transpire is strong, and the intent is to open your eyes to it now, so you don't make the same mistakes we all learned from.


----------



## *Deidre*

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


The ''girls trip'' isn't the problem, though. Your wife should be able to go on a ''girls trip'' and not have sex with another man. All the externals aren't the problem. Her friends aren't the problem, even the guy wasn't the problem. Your wife's dealing with something and she needs to get real about that with herself...and you.

The reality is...your marriage wasn't what you thought it was. No one is blissfully happy in their marriage, and oops...they have sex with someone else. That's the part you both need to talk about. And don't blame yourself.

Are you taking notes? We don't mean to overwhelm you, OP! 😊

[Edit to add - and no one's life is ''blissful.'' No one's marriage is ''blissful.'' I didn't mean to make it sound like you thought your marriage was blissful. I meant more that your marriage may have shown some signs of struggle, that you didn't notice...or didn't want to notice. Sort of like a dripping faucet...it drips for months, maybe years...and then you open the door and a flood of water comes rushing out.]


----------



## SRCSRC

I am very sorry this happened to you. It is especially disconcerting when cheating occurs in a marriage that is functioning quite well. Do not rug sweep this incident. There is a strong desire to get back to normalcy but you must fight that urge. Do not forgive easily. I recommend a polygraph for all cheating partners as a standard course of action in gathering information. While not totally reliable, it does serve several purposes including driving home the point to the cheater that you don't believe everything told to you. It is also a great catalyst to force a parking lot confession. You can also explore any other past infidelities. It is an embarrassment to the cheater and drives home some of the consequences of infidelity. 

Obviously, no more out of town trips without you. No more going to bars without you. No more friendship with the woman who helped instigate the cheating. No more girls night out. These are boundaries that should clearly be in place for the balance of your marriage. These boundaries are for your peace of mind but won't prevent her from cheating again with someone from work or other such opportunities. All her social media accounts and electronic devices must be made available to you on demand.

She must undergo counseling with a therapist versed in infidelity. The therapy should not only address why she was so cavalier in trashing her marriage but also explain to her the hurt and damage she caused to you. 

Do not take divorce off the table for the foreseeable future. Develop an exit strategy that could include seeing an attorney just to assess your rights and liabilities if you divorce.

Unfortunately, you will not look at your wife in the same way for years if ever. She threw you under the bus for some kicks. Now you are left to deal with the inescapable conclusion that she was willing to risk destroying the marriage for some cheap thrills. Everyone processes infidelity differently. The fact that it was a ONS and she confessed is certainly a much better situation than what you normally read on this site. But the utter unnecessary, stupid lapse in judgement is terrible and something you will now be forced to carry with you at some level for the rest of your time with her. Some are better suited to move forward with their partner than others. I don't think you will know how her infidelity ultimately affects your view of her and the marriage until several years have passed. Don't rush to make any decision concerning R or D.


----------



## TXSDR

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


That's awful. I'm so very sorry.


----------



## BoSlander

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


You DO NOT know that.


----------



## Young at Heart

Tbumgarner12 said:


> *Her and the friend left the bar and went to a house with several other people girls and guys *as the night went on everyone left and she said the friend was in a room with another guy. It was her idea to not hangout with the friend anymore. But *she takes full blame and not blaming alcohol for it. The guy was some stranger from the bar. They didnt exchange messages, email, etc.*





Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I should clarify *I’m willing to try and work it out and not make any type of decision. I believe it’s heading in the right direction anything I ask she tells me and knows its going to be a long road for me trusting her again, but it could be the end of my marriage also.*





Tbumgarner12 said:


> *Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often*. *It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. *she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.





Tbumgarner12 said:


> *She didn’t blame the drinking *but said she had been drinking. *She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part.* I agree I don’t think it was planned out but as some point probably at the house *when everyone left she knew better than to stay in that situation and didn’t stop it from happening.*


Usually a wife of many years will know how her husband thinks and what lines of reason will appeal to him.

So let's re-examine what you know for a few moments. Up until her confession, you had no idea she was capable of doing something so "out of character" that could destroy your marriage.

She has told you a number of things and you are mostly believing what she has told you. You loved this woman, you valued your marriage to her, and you want things to go back to the way there were. Your head is literally spinning in the course of about two weeks she has turned your world upside down and now is telling you she will make it right and you won't have to worry about a thing again.

I think that the two of you (especially you) need some serious marriage counseling to figure out* if your marriage can be saved. *Only after you both conclude it is possible to be saved and that you are both committed to saving the marriage, would I suggest marriage counseling that actually addresses trying to reconcile things.

First, your brain is trying to process too much information too quickly. You need time to think and reflect on things. *Perhaps a trial separation is in order,* to allow you and her to both have time to think without distracting each other. Now is not a time to rug seep.

Second, you have a story she has told you about what happened. You both need to better understand why it happened to set boundaries so it never happens again.

I would strongly suggest that you do some serious introspection on two topics. The first such topic is; was there anything she might have resented about you in the past. Her allowing a man to sexually enter her is not your fault. However, most "perfect marriages" don't suddenly result in infidelity. You might want to figure out how your marriage reached this crisis stage and what if any role you played in that. Again, you are not responsible for the infidelity, but you may have had a role in the two of you emotionally drifting apart, which is not an excuse for what she did. The reason to learn this is that it will need to be something addressed in any reconciliation. 

Another thing to spend some time thinking about is that sometimes a spouse will sabotage a marriage rather than be brave enough to address problems with the marriage in a straight forward way. If she was subconsciously unhappy with you, feels she married too young; she might do things to test how much she wants to stay married. Her conscious mind may say she understands how much she loves you and wants to be your wife, but her subconscious isn't so sure. In such situations she might test herself and her resolve by putting herself in situations that expose her true feelings for you. 

She consciously loves you, yet she goes on many girls night/weekends out. Has she tested herself before? Have her tests been a progressive slippery slope to sex with someone else? Does she enjoy the thrill of this? This time she went out drinking in a bar, kissed a stranger in the bar, went home with him. At that point she either knew exactly that she wanted to have sex with him or she was testing herself to the limits to see how much she really loved you. She probably enjoyed the thrill of every moment of that test and may have shocked herself when she failed the test and had sex with the guy. Either that or she has been cheating on you in the past and was looking forward to it happening again. 

However, for some reason, she confessed to you. Figuring out what really motivated her to confess, may give you insights into how she really feels about you. You probably can't find out why she confessed to you without some professional help.

I think that 2 weeks if far too soon for you to figure out if you can reconcile with this "wife" of yours. I am sure that before you knew what happened you loved her with all your heart. However, what you loved was an "illusion" and not the woman who claimed to be your wife. You are going to need time to figure out what was illusion and what was real. 

Then you will need more time to heal from the betrayal. Then you will need even more time and work to build AND TEST the "new woman" who claims to be your wife to see if that relationship is real or an illusion.

Good luck


----------



## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP, crappy situation man.



> She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part.


I wonder how young again she's going to feel the moment you divorce her?

You know how she can make this right, have her hire a $2,000 a night hooker for you so you can feel young again. No? Only she gets to **** around?


----------



## Jeffsmith35

I can almost guarantee 100% that this was not the first time she cheated on you.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

I agree with most of what @Young at Heart has said, with these exceptions.

There should be no thought of Marriage Counseling (MC) at this time. The marriage did not go out and climb in bed with another man, your wife did. The main aim of a marriage councilor is to fix a broken marriage and in the process, they assign a lot of blame to the betrayed spouse. This isn't helpful, in your case, OP, it would be beating a man while he is down. After adultery, there is no marriage to fix in any case and there won't be for a long time.

Individual counseling however is a brilliant idea for both yourself and your wife. You need someone to help you put yourself back together and she needs to find out why she is so broken as to stab her own husband in the back repeatedly.

Only after a long period of individual counseling (IC) can MC even be considered.

Now while it is true that every marriage has it's problems, some of which might even be unknown to one spouse or the other, this has nothing to do with the choice to commit adultery. Your wife committed adultery for her own selfish reasons. If you end up together, her broken nature needs to be fixed first before anything you did that might have made her unhappy needs to be considered.

Whatever you did in the marriage, even if it made her unhappy, could have been addressed in a myriad of ways. Her adultery is on her alone and don't you dare take any blame for that whatsoever.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

re16 said:


> Based on what, your wife's word? You need to realize that cheaters lie, it is a fundamental part of the whole thing. I guarantee you don't have the whole story yet.


He is correct. Glad the 2x4s are out it may knock some sense into you. There are not very many one offs in life its usually something that just came to the surface unexpectedly but has always been there. Good luck but dont be niaeve.


----------



## 2&out

I'd be hugely pissed for a while but I think unlikely would be a deal breaker for me based on what you have posted. People make mistakes including huge ones they regret the rest of their lives. Sounds like she effed up royally and knows it but it doesn't seem is just another "on the list" of a bunch others. I'll throw this out just for thought. Guaranteed any future women in your life will have had more than one other and 95+ % chance multiple others.

Only you can decide if you can forgive, in time bury and leave in the past, and move on to a life close to what you feel you had. I'm pretty sure I could. But as you can see from the responses, a lot can't.


----------



## Rus47

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


As of now she has disconnected? You have no idea what happens going forward. You don't know who the guy she banged was or if they are still in contact. You don’t know where the house was or who was on the house.

What you know for a fact is actually very little.


----------



## RebuildingMe

2&out said:


> I'd be hugely pissed for a while but I think unlikely would be a deal breaker for me based on what you have posted. People make mistakes including huge ones they regret the rest of their lives. Sounds like she effed up royally and knows it but it doesn't seem is just another "on the list" of a bunch others. I'll throw this out just for thought. Guaranteed any future women in your life will have had more than one other and 95+ % chance multiple others.
> 
> Only you can decide if you can forgive, in time bury and leave in the past, and move on to a life close to what you feel you had. I'm pretty sure I could. But as you can see from the responses, a lot can't.


LOL @ “mistake” and “forgive” and “bury”…….not a chance for this poster.


----------



## Rus47

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You know she went to the house party with the idea in mind, they were likely very friendly at the bar.


I am betting she knows the guy via her GF. I am betting they both did him. 



Tbumgarner12 said:


> She also said that in that moment she felt young again so maybe it was the missing out part.


She will remember that feeling for the rest of her life. It will keep whispering “dont you want that feeling again?” Just one more time.


gameopoly5 said:


> Your wife cannot be trusted and likely she has cheated before during the marriage. You cannot believe anything she says. That`s the reality of the situation.


This exactly. 
Why did she decide to tell you? It aint cuz she felt bad about it.


----------



## drencrom

SnowToArmPits said:


> You know how she can make this right, have her hire a $2,000 a night hooker for you so you can feel young again. No? Only she gets to **** around?


You know, I never would suggest a BS ever get a hall pass in response to a cheating spouse.

But that is the crap end of the stick of it all isn't it? In most cases one party got to go out, have their fun, get their juke on with someone other than their spouse....all is forgiven, but one has to be tormented by occasional mind movies of his wife banging another man and now there is a huge imbalance in the relationship. One got to get some strange, the other one did not. Not saying the other wants to get some revenge strange...just saying, there is now that imbalance.

At the very least, OPs wife just lost the right to complain about a whole lot of stuff.


----------



## So far so good

Don’t promise R right away, give yourself some time to decide.

she can stop the bar hopping with her friends but that doesn’t change who she is. What about when she does grocery? Go to work? Go visit some family?

Imagine yourself in this situation….

You’re on a business trip having a drink at the hotel bar. An attractive woman starts a friendly conversation ok. Then she starts flirting. How do you feel? Not what do you do but how do you feel? She invites you to her room. How do you feel? Probably along the line of “damn that would be very nice but I can’t do that to my wife”. Your WW lacks that part. She can stop going to bars but you can’t lock her up in the basement.

She can feel remorse right now, feel awful, give you lots of tears but what about in 2 years when the dust settles? She has to change, she has to fix herself if you want to consider R. That’s one prerequisite.

As time goes by, you will see her commitment and you might be able to see if you can live with this. Long term, are you going to be able to live with this? That’s the second condition.

The third condition is what lots of posters said. Try to establish the *truth* before even trying to R. Maybe it was her first ONS, maybe not. Ask her to write down exactly what happened and also, any other cheating she might have done during your marriage. She has to tell the truth because you do a polygraph on that paper afterwards.

good luck.


----------



## drencrom

2&out said:


> I'd be hugely pissed for a while but I think unlikely would be a deal breaker for me based on what you have posted. People make mistakes including huge ones they regret the rest of their lives.


Call it poor character. Anything but a mistake. It's never a mistake. It was a deliberate act to satisfy her desires. Calling it a mistake bastardizes the despicableness of what she did.



> Guaranteed any future women in your life will have had more than one other and 95+ % chance multiple others.


What happened before getting married or entering a committed relationship is irrelevant. We are talking about infidelity with a married couple here.


----------



## re16

RebuildingMe said:


> LOL @ “mistake” and “forgive” and “bury”…….not a chance for this poster.


Yea, many decisions in a row = "a mistake" ... no way. A mistake is saying 3 times 4 = 13. What she did was a series of decisions and "mistake" has nothing to do with it. Her actions were intentional. She didn't mistakenly land on an erect penis that filled her up with baby batter.

"forgive" + "bury" = rugsweep

Rugsweep = largest mistake of one's life... 

I'll leave the rest of the equation to everyone else....


----------



## Rus47

Proly we ought to stop posting here. Give OP time to process what has already been written. Imagine like most in his situation OP is overwhelmed. Hope he hasnt left his thread.


----------



## re16

Rus47 said:


> Proly we ought to stop posting here. Give OP time to process what has already been written. Imagine like most in his situation OP is overwhelmed. Hope he hasnt left his thread.


Yea, that feeling when you realize how bad it is, is awful, and probably almost worse than D-Day. I hope he sticks around... he'll be better off in the long run...


----------



## Jimi007

Dictum Veritas said:


> No you don't. The one single thing a wife absolutely owes her husband in a marriage is her fidelity, period. The worst form of disrespect a wife can show her husband is to let another man inside her.
> 
> Your wife knows this too and she knew this every step of the way, yet she decided to spit on your dignity and person by flirting with another man, take a sledge-hammer to your bond by kissing another man, burn your sacred vows by undressing with another man and lastly nuking your marriage by letting him inside her.
> 
> Yep, she nuked the marriage and she did so willingly and willfully, knowing each step of the way exactly what she was doing to you and your marriage and she didn't care.
> 
> You don't have "to get over and forgive her". You need to be able to face yourself in the mirror each morning and be proud of the man you see.
> 
> In your shoes (which with variation I did find myself in 2 decades + ago), I would have considered her taking another man's penis inside, a de-facto divorce (which I did).
> 
> It's okay if this is a deal-breaker for you, there is no moral obligation to your wife anymore. As a matter of fact, there is no marriage to your wife anymore for even if you "reconcile", the marriage you had is dead. Any further relationship with her would have to be a new marriage, built on a new relationship with new negotiated rules and boundaries and this will take years to build.
> 
> Would you have married an adulteress, knowing upfront that this is who she is? Not many men would answer yes, yet here we are, you have married one. The question now is, do you really want to stay married to an adulteress?
> 
> Well, no matter what you decide, you will have to live with your choice.
> 
> As I said earlier, you have no more moral obligations towards her, you need to take care of only one person now, yourself (the exception being kids, but you have not mentioned any).
> 
> Anyhow, it's much to fresh too even start thinking of rebuilding. You have been ripped apart as a man and before you allow time for yourself to heal, you are in no state to even start thinking of rebuilding.
> 
> If the marriage were a house, she blew it up with you inside. You need time in the hospital and if she wants that house (the marriage) back, she needs to start lifting bricks and applying mortar without your help and while doing so, tend to your every need while you are in hospital. Personally, I would have barred her from visiting me in hospital and told her not to bother with the house, but people differ and that's me.
> 
> 
> You have no need to do work to rebuild, you broke nothing. She divorced you in a visceral manner that night. If she wants you back, she needs to crawl through broken glass to get to you, that's the only way she'll ever respect you again.
> 
> You make her do the work, you make her earn you back.
> 
> 
> Realize that you have seen only the tip of the ice-berg, there is much more to her extra-curricular activities than what you know. I have yet to come across an exception to this, this early out.
> 
> You also need to realize that you will never get the full truth. It's up to you if you can live with this or not.
> 
> Pivotal to your sustained mental health is to not believe anything she tells you before you have verified it for yourself. Finding out new truths and uncovering lies sends your healing right back to day 1 with all the pain renewed.
> 
> You would be a fool to trust her right now. I wouldn't even trust that guilt made her confess. It's more likely that something happened that would have lead you to find out eventually and she just sped in ahead of the truth reaching you through other means.
> 
> 
> How many chances did she have to stop this from happening? She could have stopped the flirting, she could have told him to keep his hands to himself the first time he touched her. She could have slapped him when he leaned in for a kiss (or did she lean in?), she could have not unbuttoned that first button, not unfastened that bra, not dropped those knickers.
> 
> No, she had plenty of chances to stop this and not only did she not stop it, but she gleefully and with gusto performed for this other man.
> 
> The fact that she might not have had this in mind a week prior means nothing whatsoever. She just gave away what should have been sacred between you two as-if it was worthless and that is exactly what she made your intimacy by her chain of choices, worthless.
> 
> 
> And you need to do so behind her back and without warning. There must be no chance for them to co-ordinate stories and concoct excuses and lies.
> -----------------------
> 
> This post was harsh, I'm sorry, I know the pain you feel, I've felt it before. I just needed to give you some cold, hard facts.
> 
> Whether divorce or reconciliation, I wish you the best, but you need to realize, you are still far too injured to commit to a marriage so freshly annihilated.
> 
> The wise man would start divorce, if she can win you back (not the injured man you are now, but a future, more whole you), the divorce can always be stopped or you can marry her again, who knows?
> 
> Accept however that this marriage is gone and offering your wife safe harbor whilst she was the one who blew it up without severe consequences, simply erodes any respect she might still have for you and will in-fact create a chasm between you, wider than it is now as she moves away from whom she does not respect.
> 
> Good luck OP, I mean it. One step at a time, one day at a time. But the first thing you need to do now is heal yourself before you can even think about this wrecked marriage or the woman who wrecked it.


Brutal...truth


----------



## Marc878

*Deidre* said:


> The ''girls trip'' isn't the problem, though. Your wife should be able to go on a ''girls trip'' and not have sex with another man. All the externals aren't the problem. Her friends aren't the problem, even the guy wasn't the problem. Your wife's dealing with something and she needs to get real about that with herself...and you.
> 
> The reality is...your marriage wasn't what you thought it was. No one is blissfully happy in their marriage, and oops...they have sex with someone else. That's the part you both need to talk about. And don't blame yourself.
> 
> Are you taking notes? We don't mean to overwhelm you, OP! 😊
> 
> [Edit to add - and no one's life is ''blissful.'' No one's marriage is ''blissful.'' I didn't mean to make it sound like you thought your marriage was blissful. I meant more that your marriage may have shown some signs of struggle, that you didn't notice...or didn't want to notice. Sort of like a dripping faucet...it drips for months, maybe years...and then you open the door and a flood of water comes rushing out.]


The type of people she runs with does tell you who part of her is.


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## Bulfrog1987

Speaking from experience unfortunately…. Now my circumstances were far different in that my husband had emotionally abandoned me, was drinking every night heavily and this went on for three years when I made a fateful decision and had an affair.

Once discovered, because unlike your wife, mine was not a one night stand.. my husband made my life hell. As it should have been, to some extent at least. I accepted his anger and the things that ensued for a long time. That was over twelve years ago. He never forgave me, I don’t believe he ever had any intention of forgiving me actually.

It can be done, and it takes a tremendous amount of work on both sides, it is however hard when she says she doesn’t know why. I knew why, it didn’t make my choice right by any stretch of the imagination, yet there we were. 

The main thing is, are you in it for the long haul? Hard thing to know when things are so fresh. None of this may be helpful? I apologize if it’s not. Do know I loved my husband, I still do and he died in March. I just wanted him to be a better man, to stop drinking, to be a husband, a counterpart and I stuck it out even when I shouldn’t have.

just because she did this doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you, but it is key to figure out the why, even if it’s as superficial as her just giving into some other man’s attention. She needs to figure that out and own it.


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## Young at Heart

Dictum Veritas said:


> I agree with most of what @Young at Heart has said, with these exceptions.
> 
> There should be no thought of Marriage Counseling (MC) at this time. .......*The main aim of a marriage councilor is to fix a broken marriage and in the process, they assign a lot of blame to the betrayed spouse*.
> 
> .......*Individual counseling however is a brilliant idea for both yourself and your wife. *You need someone to help you put yourself back together and she needs to find out why she is so broken as to stab her own husband in the back repeatedly.
> 
> Only after a long period of individual counseling (IC) can MC even be considered.
> 
> ........Your wife committed adultery for *her own selfish reasons*. If you end up together, her broken nature needs to be fixed first before anything you did that might have made her unhappy needs to be considered.
> 
> Whatever you did in the marriage, even if it made her unhappy, *could have been addressed in a myriad of ways*. *Her adultery is on her alone and don't you dare take any blame for that whatsoever.*


I also agree with most of what you said as well. 

My major difference is that I think that a marriage or couples counseling doesn't need to assign blame. I further would say that either a couples counseling (not for reconciling, but for the purpose of seeing if the two of them better understand why and what happened to see if they each want to commit to reconciliation) or individual counseling is probably the next best step.

I have a much better opinion of marriage/couples counselors. In fact for a non-infidelity, but lack of sex, I have worked with two marriage counselors and one sex therapist none of whom assigned blame, but helped identify problems and get both spouses to understand and empathize with the feelings those problems would impart in the other spouse. In a Gottman's weekend set of all day sessions where we negotiated "grid lock" issues, the MC helped me understand that for me to negotiate a change in my wife's position, I really had to invest enough time in listening and understanding her reasons so that I could articulate her position as well or better than she could. 

The sex therapist who worked with us in our Sex Starved marriage didn't say my wife's refusal to have sex with me was wrong. She just asked my wife what my wife thought would happen if we no longer had sex, until my wife took the question seriously and answered, that we would probably divorce. Then the ST said that in her experience in advising hundreds if not thousands of couples, my wife was probably correct. She then helped my wife focus on if she wanted to be divorced or not. When my wife said she didn't want to be divorced, helped provide my wife with resources, exercises and reading materials that would allow her to sexually connect with me and rebuild her sexual desire. Never was there any blame assigned to me.

I may have been lucky and only dealt with positive marriage counselors, but I don't think they all assign blame. I also think that a good marriage counselor can help you figure out if saving a marriage is not likely to happen and a waste of time.

Just a different perspective and different emphasis.

As you pointed out the affair was her doing and even if she had problems with the marriage, it was a horrible way to address anything.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Here is the deal. I am not going to write a novel as a few posters have. But give you a few points to ponder and actions to consider.

First and foremost it was not a mistake. It was a decision. She made a decision first to put herself in a piss poor situation she never should have been in.Secondly, she could have opted not to go with the groups back to this guys house. Additionally, the only information you have is what she has told you.

You have decided to reconcile without having enough information in my humble opinion. I would strongly encourage you to require a polygraph as a requirement for the possibility of reconciliation. Something about your posts leave more questions that answers.

I do not think this was her first time. This is sort of like a drunk driver who gets busted and says” It was the first time I drove drunk”. Not buying this.

It is highly probable that should you go the polygraph route you may get a “parking lot confession” prior to your session.

As others told me several years back when I busted my FWW. Think of an iceberg. You only know 10% the other 90% is below the surface.

Proceed with caution my good man.


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## Un4given

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn't live with herself. She said she didn't know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that's not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it's been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I'm devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won't do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn't but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


This one is tough; however, I can tell you that as a person in a situation that isn't as hopeful, I can only say this - If you desire to forgive her, then that has to become your work. You didn't ask for this work, but for you guys to work, healing must become your work. Get into the necessary therapy as an individual and as a union. Read books on the matter, get into classes, join a support group, and do whatever you need to do to heal. Otherwise, those unchecked voices in your head will scream at every chance. You will never be the same; however, you can be better than ever. I wish my situation were as hopeful as yours - I am praying for success for you both.


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## sokillme

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


Cheaters lie and they are well practiced. Who was this guy. I suspect there was a long time to build up to this. You would be wise to operate out of the position that you have NO IDEA what was going on.

You need to understand and come to terms with the fact that there is no coming back from this, in the sense that your marriage will never be the same. Don't even try because it's a goose chase. Hopefully you were not you guys one and only because that will make it even harder. Unfortunately this is one of those things where you will have to decide if you can live with it. Coming to terms with living with it will take a while. It's not usually to read people 10 even 20 years out dealing with it.

Sorry I wish I could give you better news but you are married to a women who seems to have gone on a trip to have an affair. Not a good life no matter how great friends you were before. This is reality she is not your friend now, friends don't do **** like this to each other. Maybe you can convince yourself not to see her like that but doesn't mean it's still not reality.

Honestly you would do better to end your marriage. Test out the waters and then maybe in a year or two see where you are. You will have a better life.


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## BoSlander

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yes, even before any of this happened I could pick up her phone and look at anything I wanted.


Dude. Before you go back to her, I suggest you educate yourself on the cheater’s protocols. Right now, your wife is going through an episode of guilt that soon will come to pass, and the guilt will go away. And once it does, it’s open season again. This. Happens. All. The. Time. With. Cheaters.

The reality is that there is a very good chance you’ve been told 10% of what went on. She probably let him do anything he wanted that night (anal, all types of creampies, etc). Now, she’ll never tell you what she did because she wants to make it sound like it was a quickie, but that was not a quickie. That was a get me pregnant f-ckathon she did not invite you to.


----------



## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, I imagine it's hard. You may never fully learn ''why.'' She may not fully know why, because she has been discontent with her life...felt the grass might be greener somewhere else...bored...whatever it might be. It's a deal breaker for me, not because I wouldn't be able to forgive, but because I would become someone I wouldn't want to be...it would forever change how I saw my husband. It may be that way for you, too. Only time will tell where you both end up with this.
> 
> Just be careful. That's all. And stay observant around social media. Your wife sounds remorseful, but just be careful.


I have read thousands of these stories and my conclusion is - Why doesn't really matter. Why is because they want to and are selfish everything isn't really important at least to the BS. No reason is going to change anything. 

There are two important questions, the first is are they safe or will they do it again. The second and more important one is what will the quality of life be if you stay with them. 

The truth is people get over others if you move on. No one is irreplaceable, people who cheat know this better then the faithful ones. 

If you stay, even the best R stories the affair is like a shadow that effects every single part of the marriage for the rest of the marriage. 

The ones who move on seem much happier. 

There is no profound reason why people cheat. It's fun, at the time they really don't care about their partner and were selfish. That is. 

Finally it isn't going away if you stay with them, you either will have to learn to live with it, be miserable, or move on.


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## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> I have read thousands of these stories and my conclusion is - Why doesn't really matter. Why is because they want to and are selfish everything isn't really important at least to the BS. No reason is going to change anything.
> 
> There are two important questions, the first is are they safe or will they do it again. The second and more important one is what will the quality of life be if you stay with them.
> 
> The truth is people get over others if you move on. No one is irreplaceable, people who cheat know this better then the faithful ones.
> 
> If you stay, even the best R stories the affair is like a shadow that effects every single part of the marriage for the rest of the marriage.
> 
> The ones who move on seem much happier.
> 
> There is no profound reason why people cheat. It's fun, at the time they really don't care about their partner and were selfish. That is.
> 
> Finally it isn't going away if you stay with them, you either will have to learn to live with it, be miserable, or move on.


That’s all true, but it doesn’t stop the betrayed from wanting to know why. I guess that’s just human nature to want to know why people betray us.


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## oldshirt

What often happens in these situations where the BS is caught completely flatfooted and didn't see it coming is they desperately want to go back to the time before the affair where they felt safe and secure in the relationship. 

And if the WS seems to want to remain in the marriage what is often happening is that they simply do not want to have any consequences or ramifications from their actions. They basically want to have their fun and excitement and pleasure from the affair, but don't want any consequences or hardships to result from it. 

So basically both the BS and the WS rush into committing to stay together. Often both will end up rugsweeping and going down the Denial River so they don't have to deal with the fallout and unpleasantness and realities of the affair. 

This is a mistake on many levels by both people. You can't go back to the before-time because the affair has irretrievably altered the very foundation of the relationship. 

Committing to staying together is erroneous because you do not know all the facts and at this point you do not know what you are trying to stay together for and you do not know what you actually have to work with. 

By you playing the "Pick Me Dance" and committing to saving the marriage, you are for all practical purposes rewarding her bad behavior and proving to her that you accept her screwing other men. In fact, not only will you accept it, but you will work harder to please her and be nicer and more loving to her to get her to stay. 

And since she doesn't want to suffer any consequences from her actions, she too simply wants to rugsweep the whole thing and she does not do any real soul searching as to why she thought it would be a good idea to go home from the bar with some random dude. Not only that but she will also not address whatever issues she may have had either with you or with the marriage or within herself. 

So what ends up happening is everyone rugsweeps and everyone looks the other way and no one really wants to dig into the nitty gritty of what is really going on. 

Bottom line is it is a mistake to forgive and commit to saving the marriage and to stay together at this point. You simply do not have all the facts. As the others have stated, at best you only know the tip of the iceberg. You do not know what you are committing to saving at this point. 

Additionally, you are desperate for things to be the way they were before you learned of the affair. I'm sorry but those days are over. You may feel like you are ready and willing to commit to reconciliation now because you are so desperate for this to not be real and for things to get back to where they were. But you don't know what your reaction and response is going to be tomorrow or next week or next month or even next year. 

There are guys that swear their love and devotion and their commitment to reconcile and then DECADES later decide they can no longer live with it or accept it and walk out. 

You do not have to forgive this yet. In fact you shouldn't forgive or commit to reconciliation yet. You would be very wise to keep your options open and NOT commit to anything yet. It's ok to need to do more digging and fact finding to determine what really is happening here because I guarentee you there is more that you are still unaware of. 

It's also advisable for you to do some serious soul searching and determine if you really do want to remain with her after what she has done vs simply being desperate for things to magically be the way they were. 

She needs to do the same. She also needs to let the dust settle and do some soul searching to determine whether she actually wants to remain married to you or whether she simply doesn't want to pay any price for her actions right now. 

The fact that she went home with some dude just because he had biceps and tattoos and they had a fun night at the bar, leads me to believe she has more issues with you and the marriage than you are grasping. 

My suggestion is keep your options open and do not commit to remaining together. I also agree with a prior poster who suggested a formal separation. (SHE LEAVES THE HOUSE, NOT YOU). That will give the dust time to settle and each of you do some real soul searching and determine if you both want to remain together or not. 

It's ok if the answer is "not." but at least then if you both do decide to try to reconcile, it is after thoughtful contemplation and soul searching and not a knee-jerk reaction in a desperate attempt to get back to where you were before. 

And also as has been stated prior, it will give you a chance to view her actions. While separated does she enter into therapy and counciling and work on herself...... or does she start dating and moving on with other people?

And finally it shows there is a price to be paid for cheating and that you will not automatically accept being cheated on and doing the Pick Me Dance trying to impress her and nice her into staying with you.


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## Rus47

sokillme said:


> If you stay, even the best R stories the affair is like a shadow that effects every single part of the marriage for the rest of the marriage.


There is a guy on here who "Reconciled" more than two decades ago. Thought all was good. Only to find out his "wife" was keeping a picture of her first husband in her sock drawer. And, when they were in counseling to reconcile, she had at least two "ONS" that he knows about. So now, nearing retirement he is faced with reprocessing the whole steaming mess.

So OP needs to process his whole pile of stuff for a *long* time before just leaping to taking his "wife" back with open arms. Most of what has happened behind his back during their 18 years of marriage he has no idea of. So he certainly can't even imagine what the future holds for him if he stays with her. She obviously isn't who he thought he married. She has had her "awakening" and wishing she sowed more wild oats when she was 19. Now that she has tasted new pasture, how is she going to confine herself to one stallion?


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## 342693

Sorry you’re going through this. For me, adultery is a red line you never cross. Trust is shattered forever. Her bags would be packed.


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## Tested_by_stress

My wife and I have been together for 31 years. If she did this to me. It would be over and done. You can't unring that bell. That ons will always exist and nothing she does going forward can change history.


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## bygone

Living an ons requires a different perspective, you never know if it's the first or the last time.

people are not allowed to be disturbed in bars, the girls must have contributed to the conversation progressing enough for the guy to approach and go to the guy's house,

they went to the man's house, sleep unprotected, not raped,

ask for a timetable, get therapy for yourself,

Offer a polygraph even though it is not recommended.

Check the card expenses of the trip and the evening of intercourse.

it can clean the phone and apps, no point in checking.ask the provider for phone calls on the trip, check the dialed numbers and message times.


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## TAMAT

Tbumgarner12, 

I strongly suspect your WW only confessed because she was about to be outed by the friend or even the OM who may have threatened to expose her or blackmail her. 

Waywards minimize and omit.

Right now get yourself in a mental state to accept that there is more possibly much more. Tell her something like "I know there is much more to this than you have admitted to I will sit quietly, not get mad and listen to your full confession"

You also need to find the OM, I guarentee your WW knows who he is.

Demand a timeline not just for this affair but for the entire marriage and while you were dating.


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## Benbutton

drencrom said:


> You know, I never would suggest a BS ever get a hall pass in response to a cheating spouse.


Eh, I would and did. It was rhe best thing I did for myself. Sure, it ended up a complete mess but I gained my confidence back immediately. The one difference between her and I? The guy she screwed around with didn't want her, the woman I got her back with wanted me. I then divorced her.

If you want to find out how remorseful she really is then go bang someone else, then tell her about it.


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## Willnotbill

The day my (ex) wife finally admitted she had sex with someone else was basically the last day of our marriage. There was a lot that led up to that point so I wasn't exactly blindsided but I knew it was over and she left that night. There was no way I was going to continue with someone who could betray me so easily. It was impossible for the marriage and our married life to remain the same. 
The OP needs to realize it will never go back to the way it was. Anytime his wife is late coming home it will cross his mind. If the wife visits a friend he will wonder if that is really where she is at. Many things will trigger his thoughts and emotions from this betrayal for years if not forever. If the OP is going to stay married to his WW then she is the one that will have to do all the work to mend the marriage but he is the one that will have to figure out how he is going to get past it or just suffer through it. I don't really think anyone ever gets past it. 

I also think OP's wife would be a great candidate for a poly. I think he might find this wasn't the first betrayal and there could be a lot of skeletons in the closet especially if these "girls weekends" have been happening for a while.


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## masterofmasters

so after 18 years...in a seemingly happy marriage...she goes to a bar, accepts the invitation(along with her idiot friend) to go to another man's house, drinks more, goes to the man's bedroom, takes off her clothes, and has unprotected sex. SMDH.

there are so many choices she made here. and all it took was a couple of compliments and a few drinks. i would say that you'll never get over how easy it was for her to cheat on you...even if it was a ONS.

ask your wife what was it about this man that satisfied her enough to not think of her husband and her kids. married people drink all the damn time and go home to their families without cheating.


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## sokillme

Rus47 said:


> There is a guy on here who "Reconciled" more than two decades ago. Thought all was good. Only to find out his "wife" was keeping a picture of her first husband in her sock drawer. And, when they were in counseling to reconcile, she had at least two "ONS" that he knows about. So now, nearing retirement he is faced with reprocessing the whole steaming mess.
> 
> So OP needs to process his whole pile of stuff for a *long* time before just leaping to taking his "wife" back with open arms. Most of what has happened behind his back during their 18 years of marriage he has no idea of. So he certainly can't even imagine what the future holds for him if he stays with her. She obviously isn't who he thought he married. She has had her "awakening" and wishing she sowed more wild oats when she was 19. Now that she has tasted new pasture, how is she going to confine herself to one stallion?


Yeah it's a huge risk. It's like marrying someone with addiction problems. There addiction may go into remission but you are always one drink away from your whole life blowing up.


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## ElOtro

2&out said:


> Only you can decide if you can forgive, in time bury and leave in the past, and move on to a life close to what you feel you had. I'm pretty sure I could. But as you can see from the responses, a lot can't.


True, a lot can´t.
And also a lot may be able but don´t find it to be desirable or even compatible with some dignity.


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## Northern.Guy

Sorry you’re dealing with this Tbumgarner12. I agree with TAMAT that she may have been forced to confess. Maybe she had a falling out with the friend already and she threatened to disclose the ONS. And even if this is not the case, I would be suspicious of previous girl’s trips with her seeing that all of a sudden she is bad company. Get the answers you need and cross examine. Watch for changing stories and contradictions.


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## Dictum Veritas

Benbutton said:


> Eh, I would and did. It was rhe best thing I did for myself. Sure, it ended up a complete mess but I gained my confidence back immediately. The one difference between her and I? The guy she screwed around with didn't want her, the woman I got her back with wanted me. I then divorced her.
> 
> If you want to find out how remorseful she really is then go bang someone else, then tell her about it.


Just remember, there is no such thing as a revenge affair. Since your wife already divorced you in the most visceral and painful way possible by letting another man inside her, you are a free agent.

I have been opposed on this point by others stating that you are not divorced until the ink on the divorce decree is dry, but the legal process to me is simply winding down a business and formalizing the financial split. The divorce has already happened through her adultery, the rest is simply jumping the red-tape.


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## sokillme

Tested_by_stress said:


> My wife and I have been together for 31 years. If she did this to me. It would be over and done. You can't unring that bell. That ons will always exist and nothing she does going forward can change history.


Same for me, I will never love anyone enough to allow them to do this to me and stay.


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## ABHale

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


Why do you need to get over it and forgive her?

What has she done to prove she would never do it again? You believed in your heart she would never do it to begin with.

Tell her to go stay with her mom for a few weeks and see how things go.

Once a cheater always a cheater.


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## ABHale

Tbumgarner12 said:


> she’s disconnected from that friend. She didn’t blame the friend but takes %100 of the responsibility for her actions. No more girls trips, etc.


To little to late.


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## Gregory Chaucery

Dictum Veritas said:


> Just remember, there is no such thing as a revenge affair. Since you wife already divorced you in the most visceral and painful way possible by letting another man inside her, you are a free agent.
> 
> I have been opposed on this point by others stating that you are not divorced until the ink on the divorce decree is dry, but the legal process to me is simply winding down a business and formalizing the financial split. The divorce has already happened through her adultery, the rest is simply jumping the red-tape.


I completely agree with you. Whether you know it or not, the marriage is over when the partner is unfaithful.
Even if it was thirty years ago and you don't know it, the marriage ended thirty years ago.


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## TinyTbone

Sorry your here friend. You absolutely must take the time.to listen to these folks. They have already walked the walk you are on!! Get out of your heart and into your man. You did nothing wrong. Its all.on her! I would base this off all that I've read here. You do not have close to the real truth. To many times spouses.seem to convince themselves that their SO has done them wrong for whatever reason. Eventually they convince themselves its ok to dip their feet in the waters. Then.for whatever reason if the SO doesn't discover what's going on the ww/wh suddenly developers a moral conscience and confesses?? This is not over friend. You must back of and dig further, must get the whole truth before you make any decisions. You must also deal with so many feelings.as.well that will.cloud your heart and good judgment. 
I really hope that's your situation is the rare occurrence seen here and this is the only time.


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## TinyTbone

I wish you were getting advice that makes you feel better. The fact is this is not normal behavior for any married person, period. The question now is this, whether you do decide to reconcile, are you willing to loose this marriage to keep it? You absolutely must have the full truth from her. Whether this is an ONS, or have there been others? What happens in 9 months during a snuggly reconciliation, you find out by whatever reason that this wasn't the only time? Now what? The world caves in for a second time and all the pain previously comes back 2 fold. Take your time, believe nothing that can't be verified and verified again. For reconciliation to happen, you must know everything. Also there is this. If you do reconcile, are you ready to be a marriage warden for possibly then rest of your marriage. Its going to be a long road friend. Listen to these people. By the experience of what they've been drug through in their lives, I believe they are in most cases more qualified than the majority of councelors you will be seeing.


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## TinyTbone

Ok, so many of the people.have told you a very important thing. Cheaters lie! Don't believe it? She with out a doubt lied to you about this for how long? That she suddenly developed a conscience? She lied without remorse to you from the moment she left that house and came home! Quit fooling yourself. You have a right to be hurt, to be angry! You should be. Everything you knew of your marriage has been rendered a.lie now. Verify, verify, verify everything first before just forgive and live. You will never be able to.forget this for the rest of your life! This takes more than a simple forgive and make up. I really hope the best for you in all this.


----------



## gameopoly5

Going back 30 years ago in the UK I stopped my car outside a tobacconist shop.
Left the engine running on my car and quickly rushed into the shop to purchase a pack of cigarettes.
As I walked out the shop I saw a guy get into my car and drive it away.
Where my car was parked there earlier, now was this empty space.
Although it was obvious my car was stolen I still found it hard to accept and was looking around the area to see if my car was still there, I mentally did not want this to be true and it took a while for the reality to sink in.
It`s a similar situation with a cheating spouse, the cheated on partner, at first, finds it difficult to swallow the bitter pill and accept the reality for what it is.
Cheating in my opinion is on the top list of worse types of domestic abuse, it can be soul destroying and should be recognised as such by the divorce legal system, having been dumped by my first wife for her lover, so again I speak from experience. 
In a situation like this the OP requires all the support he can get, from family members and friends to help him come to terms with this. 
My final advice to the OP is; before trying to reconcile with his cheating wife, first gain support from others, chew it over and don`t do anything until he gets over the initial shock and can think more clearly, then it`s up to his own better judgment of what he feels is in his best interests to do.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Tbumgarner12 said:


> “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc.


yes no shock here , it was super hot to have the feeling she could still pull a guy after nearly 20 years off the market , it does not make it right , men do it too


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


Some people have the need to think they can pull off something over the spouse without them having a clue.
That need can take many forms, not just infidelity.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Young at Heart said:


> I also agree with most of what you said as well.
> 
> My major difference is that I think that a marriage or couples counseling doesn't need to assign blame. I further would say that either a couples counseling (not for reconciling, but for the purpose of seeing if the two of them better understand why and what happened to see if they each want to commit to reconciliation) or individual counseling is probably the next best step.
> 
> I have a much better opinion of marriage/couples counselors. In fact for a non-infidelity, but lack of sex, I have worked with two marriage counselors and one sex therapist none of whom assigned blame, but helped identify problems and get both spouses to understand and empathize with the feelings those problems would impart in the other spouse. In a Gottman's weekend set of all day sessions where we negotiated "grid lock" issues, the MC helped me understand that for me to negotiate a change in my wife's position, I really had to invest enough time in listening and understanding her reasons so that I could articulate her position as well or better than she could.
> 
> The sex therapist who worked with us in our Sex Starved marriage didn't say my wife's refusal to have sex with me was wrong. She just asked my wife what my wife thought would happen if we no longer had sex, until my wife took the question seriously and answered, that we would probably divorce. Then the ST said that in her experience in advising hundreds if not thousands of couples, my wife was probably correct. She then helped my wife focus on if she wanted to be divorced or not. When my wife said she didn't want to be divorced, helped provide my wife with resources, exercises and reading materials that would allow her to sexually connect with me and rebuild her sexual desire. Never was there any blame assigned to me.
> 
> I may have been lucky and only dealt with positive marriage counselors, but I don't think they all assign blame. I also think that a good marriage counselor can help you figure out if saving a marriage is not likely to happen and a waste of time.
> 
> Just a different perspective and different emphasis.
> 
> As you pointed out the affair was her doing and even if she had problems with the marriage, it was a horrible way to address anything.


I agree with both your posts ,


oldshirt said:


> What often happens in these situations where the BS is caught completely flatfooted and didn't see it coming is they desperately want to go back to the time before the affair where they felt safe and secure in the relationship.
> 
> And if the WS seems to want to remain in the marriage what is often happening is that they simply do not want to have any consequences or ramifications from their actions. They basically want to have their fun and excitement and pleasure from the affair, but don't want any consequences or hardships to result from it.
> 
> So basically both the BS and the WS rush into committing to stay together. Often both will end up rugsweeping and going down the Denial River so they don't have to deal with the fallout and unpleasantness and realities of the affair.
> 
> This is a mistake on many levels by both people. You can't go back to the before-time because the affair has irretrievably altered the very foundation of the relationship.
> 
> Committing to staying together is erroneous because you do not know all the facts and at this point you do not know what you are trying to stay together for and you do not know what you actually have to work with.
> 
> By you playing the "Pick Me Dance" and committing to saving the marriage, you are for all practical purposes rewarding her bad behavior and proving to her that you accept her screwing other men. In fact, not only will you accept it, but you will work harder to please her and be nicer and more loving to her to get her to stay.
> 
> And since she doesn't want to suffer any consequences from her actions, she too simply wants to rugsweep the whole thing and she does not do any real soul searching as to why she thought it would be a good idea to go home from the bar with some random dude. Not only that but she will also not address whatever issues she may have had either with you or with the marriage or within herself.
> 
> So what ends up happening is everyone rugsweeps and everyone looks the other way and no one really wants to dig into the nitty gritty of what is really going on.
> 
> Bottom line is it is a mistake to forgive and commit to saving the marriage and to stay together at this point. You simply do not have all the facts. As the others have stated, at best you only know the tip of the iceberg. You do not know what you are committing to saving at this point.
> 
> Additionally, you are desperate for things to be the way they were before you learned of the affair. I'm sorry but those days are over. You may feel like you are ready and willing to commit to reconciliation now because you are so desperate for this to not be real and for things to get back to where they were. But you don't know what your reaction and response is going to be tomorrow or next week or next month or even next year.
> 
> There are guys that swear their love and devotion and their commitment to reconcile and then DECADES later decide they can no longer live with it or accept it and walk out.
> 
> You do not have to forgive this yet. In fact you shouldn't forgive or commit to reconciliation yet. You would be very wise to keep your options open and NOT commit to anything yet. It's ok to need to do more digging and fact finding to determine what really is happening here because I guarentee you there is more that you are still unaware of.
> 
> It's also advisable for you to do some serious soul searching and determine if you really do want to remain with her after what she has done vs simply being desperate for things to magically be the way they were.
> 
> She needs to do the same. She also needs to let the dust settle and do some soul searching to determine whether she actually wants to remain married to you or whether she simply doesn't want to pay any price for her actions right now.
> 
> The fact that she went home with some dude just because he had biceps and tattoos and they had a fun night at the bar, leads me to believe she has more issues with you and the marriage than you are grasping.
> 
> My suggestion is keep your options open and do not commit to remaining together. I also agree with a prior poster who suggested a formal separation. (SHE LEAVES THE HOUSE, NOT YOU). That will give the dust time to settle and each of you do some real soul searching and determine if you both want to remain together or not.
> 
> It's ok if the answer is "not." but at least then if you both do decide to try to reconcile, it is after thoughtful contemplation and soul searching and not a knee-jerk reaction in a desperate attempt to get back to where you were before.
> 
> And also as has been stated prior, it will give you a chance to view her actions. While separated does she enter into therapy and counciling and work on herself...... or does she start dating and moving on with other people?
> 
> And finally it shows there is a price to be paid for cheating and that you will not automatically accept being cheated on and doing the Pick Me Dance trying to impress her and nice her into staying with you.


agree fully , 
Like many other posters here I think My final advice to the OP is; before trying to reconcile with his cheating wife, chew it over and don`t do anything until he gets over the initial shock and can think more clearly, then it`s up to his own better judgment of what he feels is in his best interests to do. 
IT IS LIKE THE EXAMPLE OF THE STOLEN CAR 
and I though the one from one poster of a time apart would help him get a clear mind , clean cut , no rules go back to be single man and live like a single man , I am not saying single man out bedding every woman in town , just single clean cut clear head , not like the childish advice of getting her to pay for a 2k escort , while yes it is a kind of 180 but no two wrongs don't make a right


----------



## Mr.Married

Lack of response from the OP would have me believe he went straight for R and rug sweep.

Different strokes for different folks. Some people just want the easy route.


----------



## Hiner112

It's possible that one of her motivations was to prove to herself that she was still desirable. Ironically, being a cheater made her _much_ less desirable as a partner. Definitely don't lose sight that the relationship continues only at your sufferance. The onus is on her to prove that the relationship (and she) is worth keeping and not the other way around.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Hiner112 said:


> It's possible that one of her motivations was to prove to herself that she was still desirable. Ironically, being a cheater made her _much_ less desirable as a partner. Definitely don't lose sight that the relationship continues only at your sufferance. The onus is on her to prove that the relationship (and she) is worth keeping and not the other way around.


true , 
I forgot to ask , the other girl , was she all so in a relationship, or is she a single girl , 
what she said about if you tell we will not be able be friends , was it because if one tells what happened in vagus all comes out , 
what is the need for girls night out or boys night out , or for that matter coworkers nights out , MY banker friend posted on her facebook photos of her and other women and men she works with having a dinner out all dressed up in red carpet type dress , while her husband was at home , 

as clients to the bank does it do us any good that staff go on nights out often like this , what is the reason for this type night out for staff, 

I lost my accountant this year she was part of an big office , she was young woman with one son just started school , and she left over night , new guy that replaced her gave the impression she had got to friendly with another staff member,


----------



## Rus47

Mr.Married said:


> Lack of response from the OP would have me believe he went straight for R and rug sweep.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks. Some people just want the easy route.


He was here for 5 hours from initial post of his only thread. Maybe a drive by. If not, he didn't get the advice he was seeking. Pretty common pattern on here.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Rus47 said:


> He was here for 5 hours from initial post of his only thread. Maybe a drive by. If not, he didn't get the advice he was seeking. Pretty common pattern on here.


Maybe he is just processing what he learned.
This kind of information is hard.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Gregory Chaucery said:


> Maybe he is just processing what he learned.
> This kind of information is hard.


some times it is too much all us jumping on a new poster like fresh meat , and he is getting some hard info ,which is not 100 % what he hoped for as his first post was more looking for ways he could put things back the way it was before she went on her girls night ,


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

frenchpaddy said:


> some times it is too much all us jumping on a new poster like fresh meat , and he is getting some hard info ,which is not 100 % what he hoped for as his first post was more looking for ways he could put things back the way it was before she went on her girls night ,


One of the hardest things to understand, for most people, is meaninglessness.
We want reasons so we can put things together in an understandable way.
Most people could more easily understand being betrayed, if they could find something that they did to contribute to it. 
But when there is nothing that you a person could have done, where no amount of work or perfection could have kept a spouse from wandering, it's hard.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Gregory Chaucery said:


> One of the hardest things to understand, for most people, is meaninglessness.
> We want reasons so we can put things together in an understandable way.
> Most people could more easily understand being betrayed, if they could find something that they did to contribute to it.
> But when there is nothing that you a person could have done, where no amount of work or perfection could have kept a spouse from wandering, it's hard.


 shows how fragile a relationship is and often taken for granted,
even with something cheating , just in normal day to day just one wrong word said at a heated time and all can come tumbling down , as often peoples reaction is to add fire


----------



## drencrom

Benbutton said:


> Eh, I would and did. It was rhe best thing I did for myself. Sure, it ended up a complete mess but I gained my confidence back immediately. The one difference between her and I? The guy she screwed around with didn't want her, the woman I got her back with wanted me. I then divorced her.
> 
> If you want to find out how remorseful she really is then go bang someone else, then tell her about it.


I'm not saying it wouldn't be highly satisfactory for the betrayed spouse, just saying I wouldn't suggest it. 😉


----------



## drencrom

Mr.Married said:


> Lack of response from the OP would have me believe he went straight for R and rug sweep.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks. Some people just want the easy route.


Or maybe he woke up and is giving her a well deserved verbal lashing and holding her feet to the fire.


----------



## blackclover3

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I should clarify I’m willing to try and work it out and not make any type of decision. I believe it’s heading in the right direction anything I ask she tells me and knows its going to be a long road for me trusting her again, but it could be the end of my marriage also.


there is no right direction here - if you stay she wins and the guy she slept with scored. both had their fun and tasted something new and left you with pain. the guy not only slept with your wife without protection but also cost you paying for therapy, std tests and more pain. you cut your losses and leave. 

I guess I want to ask, what would take for you to leave? affair, cheating, lying? all of that happened

may be she cheated because she wanted to be with an Alpha male. and the type of males who forgive something big like cheating are more Beta spectrum. 
the least you could've done is kick her out or move out (if you dont have kids) and take a break to 1- show that you dont need her 2- let her suffer (if she truly love you) 3- taste what it means to be without you. 

again, I stand firm on what I said earlier - this is planned by her. she is full aware she will sleep with someone on girls trip. 

Don't allow her to even call it a mistake - this is not a mistake but a choice she made.


----------



## MattMatt

frenchpaddy said:


> some times it is too much all us jumping on a new poster like fresh meat , and he is getting some hard info ,which is not 100 % what he hoped for as his first post was more looking for ways he could put things back the way it was before she went on her girls night ,


I agree with @frenchpaddy. All too often when some poor soul comes with a story of dreadful betrayal there seems to be an attitude by some members of "Dance, monkey, dance! Entertain us!"  

People are here for help, not to be court jesters.


----------



## MattMatt

How are you feeling, @Tbumgarner12?


----------



## Evinrude58

gameopoly5 said:


> Going back 30 years ago in the UK I stopped my car outside a tobacconist shop.
> Left the engine running on my car and quickly rushed into the shop to purchase a pack of cigarettes.
> As I walked out the shop I saw a guy get into my car and drive it away.
> Where my car was parked there earlier, now was this empty space.
> Although it was obvious my car was stolen I still found it hard to accept and was looking around the area to see if my car was still there, I mentally did not want this to be true and it took a while for the reality to sink in.
> It`s a similar situation with a cheating spouse, the cheated on partner, at first, finds it difficult to swallow the bitter pill and accept the reality for what it is.
> Cheating in my opinion is on the top list of worse types of domestic abuse, it can be soul destroying and should be recognised as such by the divorce legal system, having been dumped by my first wife for her lover, so again I speak from experience.
> In a situation like this the OP requires all the support he can get, from family members and friends to help him come to terms with this.
> My final advice to the OP is; before trying to reconcile with his cheating wife, first gain support from others, chew it over and don`t do anything until he gets over the initial shock and can think more clearly, then it`s up to his own better judgment of what he feels is in his best interests to do.


Great post, hope you continue helping othrrs


----------



## QuietRiot

I remember that time I tried reconciling. I am very familiar with the taste of hell. 

OP may come back to visit his thread when sleeping with the enemy feels like too much. There will be many of those nights for him. Even the reconciliation cult of counselors, books sellers, and infidelity retreats can’t cure that problem.


----------



## re16

TAMAT said:


> even the OM who may have threatened to expose her or blackmail her


This is a distinct possiblity as a reason for the confession, he may have asked for the next round and threatened to tell when he didn't get it. Not uncommon.



Willnotbill said:


> The OP needs to realize it will never go back to the way it was. Anytime his wife is late coming home it will cross his mind. If the wife visits a friend he will wonder if that is really where she is at. Many things will trigger his thoughts and emotions from this betrayal for years if not forever.


This something that is hard to grasp early on. The worst part is when you finally go a day without thinking about it, and the next morning, BAM it is right back in your head. It never really goes away. Questions come up years later and at that point, the cheater's response is usually that the betrayed is ruining the marriage by not getting over it.



Willnotbill said:


> I also think OP's wife would be a great candidate for a poly. I think he might find this wasn't the first betrayal and there could be a lot of skeletons in the closet especially if these "girls weekends" have been happening for a while.


I agree with this... there is more to this story.


----------



## re16

QuietRiot said:


> OP may come back to visit his thread when sleeping with the enemy feels like too much


Yea, hopefully he does come back. He just got doused with TAM experience, which is true but harsh. I think most of us waffled a little in the beginning when the 2x4's starting swinging. Totally normal to be in a bit of shock of the predicament he is now in and starting to contemplate the long term consequences of what she did that night. Brutal situation.


----------



## Jimi007

I'm sure the OP is really taken by the fact that it wasn't a mistake. It was in fact a choice. Just like Mr. Samsonite, who also never returned after figuring it out.


----------



## JustAnj

The one thing that bothers me overall is why she never communicated her feelings to you before this happened. This has been on her mind these things don't just happen. 

Why didn't she tell you before making that choice that she craved to have sex with another guy. 

You two are mature adults and if there is a feeling that is nagging at you you talk about it and find a resolution that helps build your marriage over going outside the marriage. After 18 years together she should have been able to feel safe with communicating with you. 

This breaks my heart.


----------



## TRy

Jimi007 said:


> I'm sure the OP is really taken by the fact that it wasn't a mistake. It was in fact a choice. Just like Mr. Samsonite, who also never returned after figuring it out.


He came here for advice, and he got it. It has only been 24 hours and he made 12 posts. That may be all that he has time right now. When he needs more help he will ask for it. He is not here to serve us.


----------



## oldshirt

blackclover3 said:


> there is no right direction here - if you stay she wins and the guy she slept with scored. both had their fun and tasted something new and left you with pain. the guy not only slept with your wife without protection but also cost you paying for therapy, std tests and more pain. you cut your losses and leave.


This is what they call the "Turd Sandwich" on the Chumplady website. 

The WW and OM had a night of fun, excitement and passion. 

For whatever reason, she decides to dump it on our OP while she sheds a few crocodile tears and says she's sorry and won't do it again and then she goes and has a good nights sleep dreaming of the hot passion and orgasms with the OM while @Tbumgarner12's world is turned upside down and he's thrown into the fire. 

They have all the fun while he gets all the pain and misery and the fallout. 

It's a double turd sandwich if the WW can shed enough tears and talk a good sob story and get him to accept her behavior and keep her around because now here he is vowing to be a better man and better husband and to treat her even better so she will stick around. 

And if they get into MC, the MC is obligated to ask him what he did to contribute to the break down of the relationship that would lead her to the arms of some dude she met in a bar that night, and ask him what he can do to make the marriage better and make her more satisfied in the marriage so she doesn't keep hooking up with strange men in bars and keep her off Tinder.


----------



## drencrom

JustAnj said:


> Why didn't she tell you before making that choice that she craved to have sex with another guy.


Probably because she didn't want to tell him that, she simply wanted to do it.

And if she suspected her husband is a guy like, for example, me, and she told me that, I'd be telling her to pack her bags.


----------



## Vorpal

Maybe random bar stud wasn’t good in the sack. So hubby is looking better after the test drive. High praise, or damned by faint praise?


----------



## JustAnj

drencrom said:


> Probably because she didn't want to tell him that, she simply wanted to do it.
> 
> And if she suspected her husband is a guy like, for example, me, and she told me that, I'd be telling her to pack her bags.


It's obvious he isn't and she should have known that after all those years.

This is why communication is so important in marriage, it would have avoided the whole situation and at least allowed him to think about the conversation and give him a choice to walk away or get marriage counseling and individual therapy for her. 

This just saddens me so much, there is so much that could have been done before hand and now she neglected her relationship intentionally and he has to chose to bare it or walk away. 

It's one thing to feel it's another to act. 💔


----------



## drencrom

JustAnj said:


> It's obvious he isn't and she should have known that after all those years.
> 
> This is why communication is so important in marriage, it would have avoided the whole situation and at least allowed him to think about the conversation and give him a choice to walk away or get marriage counseling and individual therapy for her.
> 
> This just saddens me so much, there is so much that could have been done before hand and now she neglected her relationship intentionally and he has to chose to bare it or walk away.
> 
> It's one thing to feel it's another to act. 💔


Yes, communication is important. But telling him she has desires to bone other men? So he might have avoided her cheating on him, but if that discussion came up, now he'd know, as he does now, that he doesn't have someone he can trust and he'll have to live with the thought of having a wife that wants to get her rocks off elsewhere.

It's not like communicating things like needs being unmet or other issues aside from sex with others. Once a guy knows his woman has desires for other men, REAL wanting desires, the relationship ends up sucking from that point on.

And again, she wasn't about to have that conversation with him because she doesn't want him to know she wants other men....she wanted to actually do the deed. She knew what time it was from start to finish.


----------



## drencrom

JustAnj said:


> It's one thing to feel it's another to act. 💔


You didn't want her just feeling it though. You thought she should tell him.

Honestly, how does that conversation go?

"Honey, I really want to have sex with other men.....what are you going to do to keep me from doing that?"


----------



## BoSlander

Who here thinks there’s more to the story than meets the eye? I bet she knew the guy and that they were together before.

There’s something weird about how the entire story proceeded. ONS involve neutral places like motels, hotels, cars and even the middle of a field, not a perfect stranger’s apartment.


----------



## ConanHub

JBLH said:


> Who here thinks there’s more to the story than meets the eye? I bet she knew the guy and that they were together before.
> 
> There’s something weird about how the entire story proceeded. ONS involve neutral places like motels, hotels, cars and even the middle of a field, not a perfect stranger’s apartment.


Sounds like a migration from bar to home to keep it going.

I hooked up at a party like that once and the woman wasn't married but did have a boyfriend who managed to wake us up the next morning.

He was understandably angry.


----------



## QuietRiot

drencrom said:


> You didn't want her just feeling it though. You thought she should tell him.
> 
> Honestly, how does that conversation go?
> 
> "Honey, I really want to have sex with other men.....what are you going to do to keep me from doing that?"


I find the theories people have about cheating so fascinating. If you talk it out, you can keep a person from choosing to be a POS! Never mind those pesky vows and promises they made then chose to break… THESE words would have made all the difference! 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## JustAnj

drencrom said:


> You didn't want her just feeling it though. You thought she should tell him.
> 
> Honestly, how does that conversation go?
> 
> "Honey, I really want to have sex with other men.....what are you going to do to keep me from doing that?"


No no, I mean before it became a total reality for her. These things linger and feelings linger due to something in the relationship not being addressed or the person not addressing thier needs. 

The Convo should have been more real, like.

"I wanted to talk to you about some feelings I have been having that are making me feel distant from our relationship, it's been nagging at me and I wanted to be honest with you because I care about you and our marriage. I feel like our relationship is becoming casual and I am finding myself attracted to other men. I fantasize about possibly being with another man and having that spontaneous random fun feeling. I know this is hard to hear, I just wanted to talk to you about this, and I am unsure if this is something I actually want or if I wish our marriage was more spontaneous and fun."

This is a conversation that could have led them to approach a sex therapist or to explore each other in a manner that could help improve their marriage. 

The true issue is that she neglected him, she didn't give him a chance to talk about it and see if maybe they are just better off apart. She lied, deceived, and continued to hide it, doesn't matter if her friend encouraged it or not. 

There is no way to undo the past, if they talked they both could have at least chosen a path that worked for each other together or apart.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

JustAnj said:


> No no, I mean before it became a total reality for her. These things linger and feelings linger due to something in the relationship not being addressed or the person not addressing thier needs.
> 
> The Convo should have been more real, like.
> 
> "I wanted to talk to you about some feelings I have been having that are making me feel distant from our relationship, it's been nagging at me and I wanted to be honest with you because I care about you and our marriage. I feel like our relationship is becoming casual and I am finding myself attracted to other men. I fantasize about possibly being with another man and having that spontaneous random fun feeling. I know this is hard to hear, I just wanted to talk to you about this, and I am unsure if this is something I actually want or if I wish our marriage was more spontaneous and fun."
> 
> This is a conversation that could have led them to approach a sex therapist or to explore each other in a manner that could help improve their marriage.
> 
> The true issue is that she neglected him, she didn't give him a chance to talk about it and see if maybe they are just better off apart. She lied, deceived, and continued to hide it, doesn't matter if her friend encouraged it or not.
> 
> There is no way to undo the past, if they talked they both could have at least chosen a path that worked for each other together or apart.


An immediate well, ok, go ahead, leave your house key and pack up, go see. 

Would be the immediate answer. Cya.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

JustAnj said:


> No no, I mean before it became a total reality for her. These things linger and feelings linger due to something in the relationship not being addressed or the person not addressing thier needs.
> 
> The Convo should have been more real, like.
> 
> "I wanted to talk to you about some feelings I have been having that are making me feel distant from our relationship, it's been nagging at me and I wanted to be honest with you because I care about you and our marriage. I feel like our relationship is becoming casual and I am finding myself attracted to other men. I fantasize about possibly being with another man and having that spontaneous random fun feeling. I know this is hard to hear, I just wanted to talk to you about this, and I am unsure if this is something I actually want or if I wish our marriage was more spontaneous and fun."
> 
> This is a conversation that could have led them to approach a sex therapist or to explore each other in a manner that could help improve their marriage.
> 
> The true issue is that she neglected him, she didn't give him a chance to talk about it and see if maybe they are just better off apart. She lied, deceived, and continued to hide it, doesn't matter if her friend encouraged it or not.
> 
> There is no way to undo the past, if they talked they both could have at least chosen a path that worked for each other together or apart.


That conversation only would happen in a very strong, secure, trusting relationship. And that scenario probably wouldn’t exist in a relationship like that.

But it’s a fair point that open dialog about marital unrest should be a thing men and women are comfortable doing. But on the whole it doesn’t happen like that.

At the first real consideration of “I wonder how it would be to be with someone else” a relationship goes downhill and starts filling with deceit and unrest. When that thought comes, it’s already too late. Kind of like the “we should open our marriage” revelation.


----------



## JustAnj

QuietRiot said:


> I find the theories people have about cheating so fascinating. If you talk it out, you can keep a person from choosing to be a POS! Never mind those pesky vows and promises they made then chose to break… THESE words would have made all the difference!
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> An immediate well, ok, go ahead, leave your house key and pack up, go see.
> 
> Would be the immediate answer. Cya.


In which he and you should have every right to have as an option before hand. Instead of having the rug swept from under you. 

Would you prefer to know before or after is the point. 

My other point is judging from him being still with her he might have chosen to work things out and find a solution. 

If she was mature enough and cared about their marriage to talk to him about it then she'd be mature enough to walk away if she felt nothing could be resolved before engaging with another man. 

The fact that she didn't tells you otherwise and in which is shocking to me because he said they were best friends. 

I was 15 when I met my husband age has nothing to do with maturity or respect. 

She obviously did not feel the way he does about her.


----------



## JustAnj

BeyondRepair007 said:


> That conversation only would happen in a very strong, secure, trusting relationship. And that scenario probably wouldn’t exist in a relationship like that.
> 
> But it’s a fair point that open dialog about marital unrest should be a thing men and women are comfortable doing. But on the whole it doesn’t happen like that.
> 
> At the first real consideration of “I wonder how it would be to be with someone else” a relationship goes downhill and starts filling with deceit and unrest. When that thought comes, it’s already too late. Kind of like the “we should open our marriage” revelation.


I feel like he felt that they did have that, the way he talks about it shows that. Which is why it's so disheartening. 

For myself I know this is how I'd approach this and not only that in my marriage we have. We look at the pros and cons the what can be done the do we want to separate, is it worth it, what will it benefit, how will it affect our marriage, how would we feel about ourselves, how would it affect the kids, is their really no other possibility for these feelings and can they be resolved with a healthier approach.

My husband and I have talked about open marriage and he realized he preferred not to have one and I agreed, if we ever disagreed on something we would sit down and compermise or resolve it. 

It's not impossible to have the ability to communicate hard conversations. It shouldn't be honestly that's what makes a marriage stronger.


----------



## TRy

Notice how many posters say that they would immediately tell her to pack her bags, and how rarely that actually happens on this site?


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

TRy said:


> Notice how many posters say that they would immediately tell her to pack her bags, and how rarely that actually happens on this site?


We are asking a person to basically chop off a limb, when he's hoping he can keep that limb.
I think it mostly happens anyway, but we don't hear about it.


----------



## oldshirt

JustAnj said:


> The one thing that bothers me overall is why she never communicated her feelings to you before this happened. This has been on her mind these things don't just happen.
> 
> Why didn't she tell you before making that choice that she craved to have sex with another guy.
> 
> You two are mature adults and if there is a feeling that is nagging at you you talk about it and find a resolution that helps build your marriage over going outside the marriage. After 18 years together she should have been able to feel safe with communicating with you.
> 
> This breaks my heart.


It's erroneous to think that all affairs stem from fundamental flaws in the marriage or that the WS is always knowingly unhappy in the relationship or walking around wanting to get with someone else just waiting for the opportunity to arise. 

Many cheaters are in fact in functional, working relationships with loving and supportive partners. 

That is part of the Turd Sandwich for the BS that I mentioned above. For all we know, the OP here was a great husband and father and great lover and great life partner. 

For all we know the marriage may have been perfectly functional and healthy. 

There is a good possibility that they day before this WW left on her trip, she would have told you she was in a good marriage to a good man, good husband and good father. 

But the one thing he can never be is someone new and different. He can never be a completely different person in a different place under a different set of circumstances. 

Now we are only getting one side. Maybe the OP is an ass. Maybe he is abusive and has put on 100lbs and has never given her any good lovins in the bedroom for the last 18 years and she has been completely miserable and dissatisfied and she has been yearning to pick up some random in a bar for years and this was her one chance........... 

But we can't always assume that because many times that is simply not true. This may not have been something that she has been yearning for and plotting and scheming for. 

She may have been just as surprised by her response and behavior as anyone. 

OR she may be a recalcitrant cheater that has been cheating for years and for whatever reason decided she needed to confess this particular incident. 

But my point here is that not all cases of infidelity are the result of unhappy people and/or problematic marriages. Sometimes everything was fine the day before. 

Many times infidelity is the cause of marital problems and not the result of them.


----------



## Max.HeadRoom

Gregory Chaucery said:


> We are asking a person to basically chop off a limb, when he's hoping he can keep that limb.
> I think it mostly happens anyway, but we don't hear about it.


It takes time for the smoke to clear and for someone to assess the scope of the devastation; all long, we are hoping it will not be unmanageable. She had 3 weeks to plan her confession

I once had a spectacular accident on my bicycle. I lay in a heap for about 2 minutes assessing if I dared move at all while my wife was screaming, “Are you OK.”; I was able to walk.


----------



## JustAnj

oldshirt said:


> It's erroneous to think that all affairs stem from fundamental flaws in the marriage or that the WS is always knowingly unhappy in the relationship or walking around wanting to get with someone else just waiting for the opportunity to arise.
> 
> Many cheaters are in fact in functional, working relationships with loving and supportive partners.
> 
> That is part of the Turd Sandwich for the BS that I mentioned above. For all we know, the OP here was a great husband and father and great lover and great life partner.
> 
> For all we know the marriage may have been perfectly functional and healthy.
> 
> There is a good possibility that they day before this WW left on her trip, she would have told you she was in a good marriage to a good man, good husband and good father.
> 
> But the one thing he can never be is someone new and different. He can never be a completely different person in a different place under a different set of circumstances.
> 
> Now we are only getting one side. Maybe the OP is an ass. Maybe he is abusive and has put on 100lbs and has never given her any good lovins in the bedroom for the last 18 years and she has been completely miserable and dissatisfied and she has been yearning to pick up some random in a bar for years and this was her one chance...........
> 
> But we can't always assume that because many times that is simply not true. This may not have been something that she has been yearning for and plotting and scheming for.
> 
> She may have been just as surprised by her response and behavior as anyone.
> 
> OR she may be a recalcitrant cheater that has been cheating for years and for whatever reason decided she needed to confess this particular incident.
> 
> But my point here is that not all cases of infidelity are the result of unhappy people and/or problematic marriages. Sometimes everything was fine the day before.
> 
> Many times infidelity is the cause of marital problems and not the result of them.


I think you misinterpreted my post. 

I didn't mean to say he had involvement in the issue or pushed her to feel unsecure. 

I am saying in regards to the fact of the way he speaks about his marriage it's surprising she did not trust him in handling how she felt. It's in her not him. This does not imply that he made her feel this way simply that she felt that way.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Also of course you never know, I am simply gathering from the information he has shared and how it seems that she already was aware of her decisions and actions and how she felt. She even held on to the truth.


----------



## oldshirt

TRy said:


> Notice how many posters say that they would immediately tell her to pack her bags, and how rarely that actually happens on this site?


Yeah, stories like this often provoke a lot of chest-thumping and tough talk and talk of, "If that were me, I would......" 

But when it actually happens, there are always some kind of mitigating circumstances where they actually say, "Well yeah but............." and then they go on to say how their situation is different or unique and that they need more time to decide what to do or there is some reason they believe prevents them from kicking anyone to the curb. 

I don't think I would immediately kick my wife out if I were to find out today she was cheating. That's not how I conduct my business in any situation. I would not immediately leave or kick her out, but neither would I immediately try to reconcile do the Pick Me Dance or try to "save the marriage." 

I am getting more and more of the belief that whatever action we immediately respond with is most likely going to be the wrong one or at least completely different than what we end up doing in the long run. 

What that means is the ones that immediately try to save the marriage and reconcile are often the ones that end up getting used and abused and exploited and crapped on for years until they either have had and enough and bolt or until their WS finds someone that will actually have them and they leave. 

And the people that do immediately kick them out or they themselves leave often end up taking them back. 

So I don't know if any immediate knee-jerk response is the best. 

The practical side of me says the actual best first action should be a trip to the lawyers office to start taking steps to secure your assets and contact with the children so the WS doesn't suddenly decide to empty all the accounts, grab the kids and take off with the AP to parts unknown. 

And I think it is wise to find out the facts and realities of what a divorce would actually look like and what one's rights and responsibilities will be should a divorce occur by action of either party. 

Are most people probably going to do that immediately? Very doubtful. 

Will I actually do that if I were to find out my partner is cheating? I dunno. There will probably be some factor that I will think is a mitigating circumstance that makes me an exception to that rule as well. We all tend to be like that parent that says do I as I say, not as I do. 

I can say that in the past when a serious GF was cheating on me and I tried my hardest to save the relationship and did the Pick Me Dance that would put John Travolta to shame....... It was the wrong thing to do.


----------



## DosEquis

Ya know what pisses me off the most about this, and all f'ing cheating stuations? Its that the faithful spouse gets f'd no matter what. If they stay, they have absolutely chosen the way of pain and are *forced* into a life that they never chose, i.e. life with a stranger. If they D, they launch into the unknown, usually with far fewer financial resources. Some would say of R, "better the devil you know, than the devil you don't", but its still the devil you're dancing with. I know its stating the obvious, but its worth repeating.

All I want to say OP is *count the cost. *I stuck around after my wife's brief betrayal and it was the hardest, most painful time of my life. Nothing was the same. I felt like I was in a legal marriage (vows had been broken) with a total stranger. May as well have picked a single woman off the street and tried to build a relationship with her. Probably would have been more successful without having to drag around the detritus of traitorous betrayal around for years.

I know youve been married for 18 years. 18 years of marital attachment doesnt just go away, but, know what's worse than facing the betrayal of 18 years? The pain of trying to reconcile with a veritable stranger for another 18.

Ill say it again. *Count the cost.*


----------



## oldshirt

JustAnj said:


> I think you misinterpreted my post.
> 
> I didn't mean to say he had involvement in the issue or pushed her to feel unsecure.
> 
> I am saying in regards to the fact of the way he speaks about his marriage it's surprising she did not trust him in handling how she felt. It's in her not him. This does not imply that he made her feel this way simply that she felt that way.
> 
> Sorry if I wasn't clear.
> 
> Also of course you never know, I am simply gathering from the information he has shared and how it seems that she already was aware of her decisions and actions and how she felt. She even held on to the truth.


I understood what you meant completely. 

I'm just saying that not all cases of infidelity come from the WS being fundamentally unhappy in the relationship or that they don't feel safe in communicating with the BS or that there is anything necessarily wrong in the relationship.


----------



## JustAnj

oldshirt said:


> I understood what you meant completely.
> 
> I'm just saying that not all cases of infidelity come from the WS being fundamentally unhappy in the relationship or that they don't feel safe in communicating with the BS or that there is anything necessarily wrong in the relationship.


Okay gotcha 👍 My bad. ❤


----------



## BoSlander

oldshirt said:


> I understood what you meant completely.
> 
> I'm just saying that not all cases of infidelity come from the WS being fundamentally unhappy in the relationship or that they don't feel safe in communicating with the BS or that there is anything necessarily wrong in the relationship.


^^^
THIS is so true it’s scary.

If people only knew how random and circumstantial adultery is they would think twice about letting their significant other go on nights-out or get-togethers.

You’re happily married at 11PM and at 5AM you’re desperately calling any lawyer who can expedite divorce papers.

And all it took was 4 Long Island Ice Teas.


----------



## Megaforce

Dictum Veritas said:


> Just remember, there is no such thing as a revenge affair. Since your wife already divorced you in the most visceral and painful way possible by letting another man inside her, you are a free agent.
> 
> I have been opposed on this point by others stating that you are not divorced until the ink on the divorce decree is dry, but the legal process to me is simply winding down a business and formalizing the financial split. The divorce has already happened through her adultery, the rest is simply jumping the red-tape.


Gotta agree. Once the contract is broken, even if one party is unaware, the contract is invalidated. Fidelity was a material component of the marriage contract. She removed it.
I think any betrayed spouse needs to do some serious self examination. Will it be possible for the betrayed to live with this know, the certainty, that under the right circumstances, his or her spouse will betray. What happens if you get sick? What happens if your finances tank or you lose your job? What if you become less physically attractive or have difficulty functioning sexually as you age?
You now know that your wife's adherence to fidelity is conditional. If she will do this to you when things seem relatively good, what happens when the chips are down?
On another note, it is extremely rare, IMO after reading countless stories, that a confession is made because the cheater feels too much guilt. I tried a lot of cases before I retired. The victims of some of my clients seemed to take some comfort in thinking that their victimizer would, at least, suffer to some extent due to feeling guilt. What these victims did not seem to grasp is that people who victimize others, such as cheaters, are able to do do for exactly the reason that they do not feel guilt.
Seriously, do you really think your wife would have been capable of sexual arousal if her actions were of the type that they would bother her? I submit that she would be dry as the Sahara if guilt was in play.


----------



## QuietRiot

JustAnj said:


> I feel like he felt that they did have that, the way he talks about it shows that. Which is why it's so disheartening.
> 
> For myself I know this is how I'd approach this and not only that in my marriage we have. We look at the pros and cons the what can be done the do we want to separate, is it worth it, what will it benefit, how will it affect our marriage, how would we feel about ourselves, how would it affect the kids, is their really no other possibility for these feelings and can they be resolved with a healthier approach.
> 
> My husband and I have talked about open marriage and he realized he preferred not to have one and I agreed, if we ever disagreed on something we would sit down and compermise or resolve it.
> 
> It's not impossible to have the ability to communicate hard conversations. It shouldn't be honestly that's what makes a marriage stronger.


I think you are making a mistake in your logic here, a person who cheats doesn’t operate by the same parameters as loyal people do. Lies, deceit and unilateral decision-making are what defines them in their actions. 

It’s kind of like saying, “If liars were honest, they wouldn’t be liars.” Well, yes… but they _are_ liars.


----------



## Megaforce

JustAnj said:


> The one thing that bothers me overall is why she never communicated her feelings to you before this happened. This has been on her mind these things don't just happen.
> 
> Why didn't she tell you before making that choice that she craved to have sex with another guy.
> 
> You two are mature adults and if there is a feeling that is nagging at you you talk about it and find a resolution that helps build your marriage over going outside the marriage. After 18 years together she should have been able to feel safe with communicating with you.
> 
> This breaks my heart.


Well, telling him would have put him on alert, thus making consummation difficult.


----------



## JustAnj

Megaforce said:


> Well, telling him would have put him on alert, thus making consummation difficult.


I agree but honestly it really is all assumption.


----------



## Megaforce

I really wonder if, as certain folks allege, a marriage tarnished by infidelity can ever recover to an extent that it is enjoyable. I see allegations about not just being satisfactory, but being better, improved etc.
I do not think I am capable of accepting a marriage vitiated like this. As far as I can tell, I am not overly vindictive or a grudge holder beyond what is normal. But, I am just about certain that, had I been given the opportunity to reconcile, at some point my resentment would have destroyed the marriage.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Megaforce said:


> I really wonder if, as certain folks allege, a marriage tarnished by infidelity can ever recover to an extent that it is enjoyable. I see allegations about not just being satisfactory, but being better, improved etc.
> I do not think I am capable of accepting a marriage vitiated like this. As far as I can tell, I am not overly vindictive or a grudge holder beyond what is normal. But, I am just about certain that, had I been given the opportunity to reconcile, at some point my resentment would have destroyed the marriage.


It could be that the reason for the supposedly improved marriage is that both partners step up and do what they should have been doing all along.


----------



## JustAnj

QuietRiot said:


> I think you are making a mistake in your logic here, a person who cheats doesn’t operate by the same parameters as loyal people do. Lies, deceit and unilateral decision-making are what defines them in their actions.
> 
> It’s kind of like saying, “If liars were honest, they wouldn’t be liars.” Well, yes… but they _are_ liars.


I get what your saying, I agree to an extent. Some people are more immature then they are conformed liars and can grow out of that kind of mindset once they mature mentally.


----------



## BoSlander

Megaforce said:


> I really wonder if, as certain folks allege, a marriage tarnished by infidelity can ever recover to an extent that it is enjoyable. I see allegations about not just being satisfactory, but being better, improved etc.
> I do not think I am capable of accepting a marriage vitiated like this. As far as I can tell, I am not overly vindictive or a grudge holder beyond what is normal. But, I am just about certain that, had I been given the opportunity to reconcile, at some point my resentment would have destroyed the marriage.


Marriage is literally a contract with fidelity representing one of the core statutes. If you accept adultery you’re, by default, accepting a lesser contract and all the ills that come with the lower contractual standards.


----------



## JustAnj

Megaforce said:


> I really wonder if, as certain folks allege, a marriage tarnished by infidelity can ever recover to an extent that it is enjoyable. I see allegations about not just being satisfactory, but being better, improved etc.
> I do not think I am capable of accepting a marriage vitiated like this. As far as I can tell, I am not overly vindictive or a grudge holder beyond what is normal. But, I am just about certain that, had I been given the opportunity to reconcile, at some point my resentment would have destroyed the marriage.


Has that ever been posted on here? I know people talk a lot about some issues they need clarity in, do people ever post updates on how they are doing?

It would be nice to see that story. Kinda give a different background.

Don't know if you know though I have only been on this forum 3 times.


----------



## oldshirt

Megaforce said:


> I really wonder if, as certain folks allege, a marriage tarnished by infidelity can ever recover to an extent that it is enjoyable. I see allegations about not just being satisfactory, but being better, improved etc.
> I do not think I am capable of accepting a marriage vitiated like this. As far as I can tell, I am not overly vindictive or a grudge holder beyond what is normal. But, I am just about certain that, had I been given the opportunity to reconcile, at some point my resentment would have destroyed the marriage.





JustAnj said:


> Has that ever been posted on here? I know people talk a lot about some issues they need clarity in, do people ever post updates on how they are doing?
> 
> It would be nice to see that story. Kinda give a different background.
> 
> Don't know if you know though I have only been on this forum 3 times.


There are a few people here that claim they have reconciled post affair and now have strong, healthy marriages. If they claim it is "better" now, then that is a subjective claim on their part and is not up to me to confirm or deny whether it is any 'better' or not. 

What I believe they will all tell you however is that their marriage today is not the same marriage as it was before. It was basically tore down to a vacant lot and rebuilt from the ground up.


----------



## RebuildingMe

oldshirt said:


> There are a few people here that claim they have reconciled post affair and now have strong, healthy marriages. If they claim it is "better" now, then that is a subjective claim on their part and is not up to me to confirm or deny whether it is any 'better' or not.
> 
> What I believe they will all tell you however is that their marriage today is not the same marriage as it was before. It was basically tore down to a vacant lot and rebuilt from the ground up.


I believe that most who reconciled are not truly happy and they tell themselves that to justify them staying. No way anyone forgets that. It stays with you like a terminal disease.


----------



## DudeInProgress

QuietRiot said:


> I think you are making a mistake in your logic here, a person who cheats doesn’t operate by the same parameters as loyal people do. Lies, deceit and unilateral decision-making are what defines them in their actions.


This is a concept we see a lot on here, which I think is dangerously and counterproductively simplistic, as well as being arrogantly/pridefully naïve.

While there certainly are people who are inherently dishonest and disloyal, and hence unfit for marriage; all cheaters are not a different breed of human.
And to believe that you or your spouse is intrinsically and completely incapable of cheating is both naïve and foolish.

We are all capable of it - and that awareness is one of the things that ensures we keep ourselves in check and avoid situation‘s/scenarios that are inappropriate or put undue stress/temptation or are conducive to crossing boundaries that shouldn’t be crossed.

“But but but cheaters are just bad people, they are different from us…”
maybe, some - but we all have the capacity to make very bad / destructive decisions, and recognizing that goes a long way and helping one keep it under control so as to ensure that we remain good people.

No one is inherently above crossing boundaries, and that includes me, and that include you, and that most certainly includes your spouse.
Sure, some people are more disposed to it than others (which is why we talk about recognizing red flags and avoiding such people), but to think that you or your spouse are inherently immune is dangerously silly.

this is not a defense of cheating or cheaters by the way. It’s a despicable file destructive choice that I can’t imagine reconciling from.


----------



## QuietRiot

JustAnj said:


> I get what your saying, I agree to an extent. Some people are more immature then they are conformed liars and can grow out of that kind of mindset once they mature mentally.


Yes, and I believe cheaters are redeemable with hard work and effort 100% on their own, but I don’t believe that a marriage where they betrayed their spouse can be fixed most of the time…for many reasons.


----------



## Megaforce

Gregory Chaucery said:


> It could be that the reason for the supposedly improved marriage is that both partners step up and do what they should have been doing all along.


Possibly, although as the betrayed, I would always wonder if the improvements, the new devotion etc. was due to real feelings as opposed to mere fear of consequences. Plus, I think I would always resent having been or being plan B. I suppose my having forgone similar opportunities to cheat, to have enjoyed a similar amount of excitement and pleasure, would fuel my resentment and offend my sense of fairness. I was not chopped liver way back then and had generated some interest.


----------



## QuietRiot

DudeInProgress said:


> This is a concept we see a lot on here, which I think is dangerously and counterproductively simplistic, as well as being arrogantly/pridefully naïve.
> 
> While there certainly are people who are inherently dishonest and disloyal, and hence unfit for marriage; all cheaters are not a different breed of human.
> And to believe that you or your spouse is intrinsically and completely incapable of cheating is both naïve and foolish.
> 
> We are all capable of it - and that awareness is one of the things that ensures we keep ourselves in check and avoid situation‘s/scenarios that are inappropriate or put undue stress/temptation or are conducive to crossing boundaries that shouldn’t be crossed.
> 
> “But but but cheaters are just bad people, they are different from us…”
> maybe, some - but we all have the capacity to make very bad / destructive decisions, and recognizing that goes a long way and helping one keep it under control so as to ensure that we remain good people.
> 
> No one is inherently above crossing boundaries, and that includes me, and that include you, and that most certainly includes your spouse.
> Sure, some people are more disposed to it than others (which is why we talk about recognizing red flags and avoiding such people), but to think that you or your spouse are inherently immune is dangerously silly.


Once a person crosses that line, their brain literally does become different. Their neurological activity becomes changed. They do in fact, become different, think differently, behave differently.

I never said they are subhuman or a different race, but to say affairs do not cause irreparable damage to even the cheater themselves is too simplistic.


----------



## DudeInProgress

QuietRiot said:


> Once a person crosses that line, their brain literally does become different. Their neurological activity becomes changed. They do in fact, become different, think differently, behave differently.
> 
> I never said they are subhuman or a different race, but to say affairs do not cause irreparable damage to even the cheater themselves is too simplistic.


Of course cheating causes irreparable damage to both parties. It’s a vile despicable choice.

I never said it doesn’t change them, maybe it does. My point is that everyone is capable of crossing that line, especially if they don’t proactively ensure that they have boundaries in place to avoid it.


----------



## QuietRiot

DudeInProgress said:


> Of course cheating causes irreparable damage to both parties. It’s a vile despicable choice.
> 
> I never said it doesn’t change them, maybe it does. My point is that everyone is capable of crossing that line, especially if they don’t proactively ensure that they have boundaries in place to avoid it.


Ah I see what you’re getting at. I don’t think the person that willingly crosses the line has the same mental construct as those who do not. Weak personal boundaries are weak personal boundaries regardless of the communicating beforehand. Do you really think a woman who goes out and throws her marriage in the dumpster after meeting some dude at the bar is “just like every other woman”. The “proactively ensuring” part of your argument is missing in people that cheat. I believe it’s always been there and always will be without DEEP work. I do believe there is a fundamental difference between people who do cheat, and people who do not. Not subhuman or insect like… but a very different mental construct. 

I don’t think that makes me arrogant or pridefully naive…( but I guess that’s something an arrogant or pridefully naive person would also say, so good play sir. )
But yes I do know for a fact I never have and never will cheat on anyone, because I have always had boundaries without any need of being told to have them. Or try them out. There is a huge difference between me and the OPs wife. Call it proactive boundaries if you like, I call it not having cheater mentality.


----------



## DudeInProgress

QuietRiot said:


> Ah I see what you’re getting at. I don’t think the person that willingly crosses the line has the same mental construct as those who do not. Weak personal boundaries are weak personal boundaries regardless of the communicating beforehand. Do you really think a woman who goes out and throws her marriage in the dumpster after meeting some dude at the bar is “just like every other woman”. The “proactively ensuring” part of your argument is missing in people that cheat. I believe it’s always been there and always will be without DEEP work. I do believe there is a fundamental difference between people who do cheat, and people who do not. Not subhuman or insect like… but a very different mental construct.
> 
> I don’t think that makes me arrogant or pridefully naive…( but I guess that’s something an arrogant or pridefully naive person would also say, so good play sir. )
> But yes I do know for a fact I never have and never will cheat on anyone, because I have always had boundaries without any need of being told to have them. Or try them out. There is a huge difference between me and the OPs wife. Call it proactive boundaries if you like, I call it not having cheater mentality.


Again, I think it depends. There are certainly people with a different, less honorable/loyal mental construct. Absolutely. And I have no tolerance for cheating nor any sympathy for cheaters.
But even for those who consider ourselves loyal, honorable people, I think it’s foolish to believe that we are somehow immune to cheating based on our mental construct..

I don’t cheat on my wife. I have never cheated on my wife. I don’t want to cheat on my wife, and I am confident that I won’t ever cheat on my wife.

But I’m perfectly capable of it and I would be capable of compartmentalizing it. I know that. And as a result I know to avoid situations that would be conducive to cheating or to crossing boundaries which eventually can lead to cheating.


----------



## Personal

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, stories like this often provoke a lot of chest-thumping and tough talk and talk of, "If that were me, I would......"


Well I can't speak for others yet if I were in @Tbumgarner12's shoes I certainly wouldn't be reconciling.

Of which I am not claiming this from a rhetorical position. since I have been there and done that, when I ended my marital relationship with my ex-wife.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Yeah the reason “why” baffles me we talk, do things together and have sex often. It was either the desire to be with someone else, feeling wanted by someone else, etc. she found out after it wasn’t worth it and how she was so selfish to put that over our marriage.


We're you her only sexual partner. She may just wanted some strange D, seem like there is a lot of that from women with no other partners.

Her friend is definitely toxic to your marriage. I would speak to the friend and also tell wife and friend, the friendship is permanently over. Let friends and family know. Other male friends need to know this friend is not marriage safe friend of their wives.


----------



## Divinely Favored

I think the only way marriage to a cheater could get better, is if the marriage was so bad, that is should have ended much earlier.


----------



## oldshirt

QuietRiot said:


> Ah I see what you’re getting at. I don’t think the person that willingly crosses the line has the same mental construct as those who do not. Weak personal boundaries are weak personal boundaries regardless of the communicating beforehand. Do you really think a woman who goes out and throws her marriage in the dumpster after meeting some dude at the bar is “just like every other woman”. The “proactively ensuring” part of your argument is missing in people that cheat. I believe it’s always been there and always will be without DEEP work. I do believe there is a fundamental difference between people who do cheat, and people who do not. Not subhuman or insect like… but a very different mental construct.
> 
> I don’t think that makes me arrogant or pridefully naive…( but I guess that’s something an arrogant or pridefully naive person would also say, so good play sir. )
> But yes I do know for a fact I never have and never will cheat on anyone, because I have always had boundaries without any need of being told to have them. Or try them out. There is a huge difference between me and the OPs wife. Call it proactive boundaries if you like, I call it not having cheater mentality.


It may be fair to say to say that you would not respond as the OP’s wife as hooking up with randoms you happen to encounter in a bar ain’t your thang.

But it is naive and shortsighted to believe that those that have cheated at some point and those that haven’t (or those that haven’t yet) are different species or are from different factories. 

No one is immune and everyone has their own challenges and trigger points. 

Most people will hopefully go their whole lives without cheating. While their own character, beliefs and values and mores will certainly play a significant role in that, so too will the events and circumstances and opportunities and situations that will occur during the course of their lives. 

We have roughly 80 year lifespans. A lot can happen in 80 years and we simply don’t know what tomorrow may bring. 

Your triggers and limits and challenges and fallibility’s will be different than the OP’s wife’s and will be different from mine and different than the next person’s, but they are there and you are not immune and neither am I and neither is anyone else. 

I agree with @Dudeinprogess that our real strength in prevention lays within our acknowledgment of our own vulnerability rather than our naivette that tells us we are somehow immune or our arrogance that tells us we are fundamentally different or superior to those who have.


----------



## QuietRiot

oldshirt said:


> It may be fair to say to say that you would not respond as the OP’s wife as hooking up with randoms you happen to encounter in a bar ain’t your thang.
> 
> But it is naive and shortsighted to believe that those that have cheated at some point and those that haven’t (or those that haven’t yet) are different species or are from different factories.
> 
> No one is immune and everyone has their own challenges and trigger points.
> 
> Most people will hopefully go their whole lives without cheating. While their own character, beliefs and values and mores will certainly play a significant role in that, so too will the events and circumstances and opportunities and situations that will occur during the course of their lives.
> 
> We have roughly 80 year lifespans. A lot can happen in 80 years and we simply don’t know what tomorrow may bring.
> 
> Your triggers and limits and challenges and fallibility’s will be different than the OP’s wife’s and will be different from mine and different than the next person’s, but they are there and you are not immune and neither am I and neither is anyone else.
> 
> I agree with @Dudeinprogess that our real strength in prevention lays within our acknowledgment of our own vulnerability rather than our naivette that tells us we are somehow immune or our arrogance that tells us we are fundamentally different or superior to those who have.


I believe I made it clear several times I don’t consider people who cheat a subspecies or have different DNA. Also I did state people are redeemable with hard self work, even if the marriage is not most of the time. Good Lord!

I don’t think it’s superior or arrogant to simply say, I will not cheat. I also won’t ever smoke crack or be a prostitute...I know what my vulnerabilities are those aren’t it. More likely, my crap picker would find another cheater. I can’t even take offense to being accused of arrogance, because it’s so inaccurate it has no value. Might as well say I have Dolly Pardon size boobs or blue skin, they are equally as ridiculous. I happen to believe, fully, that there are many people in the world that would never cheat regardless of their circumstances. That’s all she wrote. 

Anyhow, this is a threadjack by now I’m sure so I won’t debate anymore.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OP you have been given some very useful advice and also insights into what might have really happened and possibly why. 

So she goes to this bar and meets and likes this guy. Make no mistake, she fancied him else she would not have screwed him. The drinks may have helped ease the flow and the other friends around may have made it seem like part of the fun BUT she fancied him and wanted to sleep with him. She deliberately went along with everything else that was happening around her, kissing and making out with him along the way until the point when everyone left - at this point she had to decide whether she stayed and screwed him or did not - and she made what was for her a very clear and easy decision. She thought she would worry (or not) about consequences later - lust and her wants took over at this stage. So we have established that she gives in to her carnal wants fairly easily.

*Now*: an important question at this point is has she been out on similar nights with this friend in the past? The reason I ask is it is hard to believe that attractive young men that she fancied have not flirted or hit on her in the past at such bars or venues. So what would have made this situation special? The answer is nothing, so that is why many are pointing out that there is a very strong possibility that this was not her first rodeo.

If that is the case then why did she feel "guilty" at this stage and not in the past? The real answer to this lies with her "friend". Another question worth asking is if her friend is married or in a committed relationship? This would mean that her friend is an experienced cheater. And if she has been her friend for some time, this would have rubbed off - she would not have been offended at her friend's behaviour if she knew she cheated and still went out with her. So what changed this time? 

*Next*: it would be very useful to know if they had a fight or falling out due to some other reason and maybe a chat with her friend would also help you to understand the dynamic of her feeling the need to tell you.

She also had 2 weeks to figure out what to do or even to get into a fight with her friend before deciding to tell you. She now knows that all she had to do was throw herself at the mercy of your court. So whoever said that she needs consequences is right. So far, she has had none. And she will not be deterred to try this again but be more careful about who she goes out with the next time i.e. covers her tracks better.

She needs to write down a detailed timeline of everything that happened - how long before the flirting started, what was said and by whom, all the way to getting undressed or being undressed by the guy, what exactly she did and how many times during the night, who left the bedroom first, what was said to each other. Also she needs to say if this happened before and if so, she needs a timeline of detail for each time it happened. Also she needs to include details of how hot the guy was. Did he have a big ****. Did they use protection. Did she do anything with him that she has not with you etc. All this needs to be in her document. It should also include an attempt by her to try and explain why she did it and do not accept I do not know or any generic platitudes. And then you need to ask her questions about it to see if you can catch her out. And then ... and not before ... without any warning spring the poly test on her.

I, like the others here, feel that you only have 10% of the truth.


----------



## frenchpaddy

this topic is showing we are a pack of wolfs , a little poster comes along and not only do we give him in this case our thinking on how he should deal with his marriage problems , but we go as far as re-living every night he and his wife has even had , and relive their whole 18 years of marriage , 

now it is one thing to give advice in one post or two but is there need to say the same thing in 50 ways and swamp the poster with 10 pages when he came here 2 days ago , last night when I was going to bed we were on page 4 ,or 5 now we are on page 10 , can I read all the posts no , do I want to read all the posts no , 

would I advise a friend to post a topic on here looking for light on his or her marriage , I think I would but give them a strong warning , and be ready to run before we start playing with their head


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

frenchpaddy said:


> this topic is showing we are a pack of wolfs , a little poster comes along and not only do we give him in this case our thinking on how he should deal with his marriage problems , but we go as far as re-living every night he and his wife has even had , and relive their whole 18 years of marriage ,
> 
> now it is one thing to give advice in one post or two but is there need to say the same thing in 50 ways and swamp the poster with 10 pages when he came here 2 days ago , last night when I was going to bed we were on page 4 ,or 5 now we are on page 10 , can I read all the posts no , do I want to read all the posts no ,
> 
> would I advise a friend to post a topic on here looking for light on his or her marriage , I think I would but give them a strong warning , and be ready to run before we start playing with their head


People have to learn to depersonalize more. Try to be more clinical about their advice.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Gregory Chaucery said:


> People have to learn to depersonalize more. Try to be more clinical about their advice.


 very true when you see some use langue like "it's sad, it worries me , " or even over dramatic and say things like how did it feel to know that when you were making love to her she had his sperm inside her


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

frenchpaddy said:


> very true when you see some use langue like "it's sad, it worries me , " or even over dramatic and say things like how did it feel to know that when you were making love to her she had his sperm inside her


Exactly. Your trauma is not his trauma 
He might be concerned about other things and not the ONS itself.
We aren't helping him by making it about ourselves.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

frenchpaddy said:


> very true when you see some use langue like "it's sad, it worries me , " or even over dramatic and say things like how did it feel to know that when you were making love to her she had his sperm inside her


I disagree, the reality of being cheated on is visceral and rug-sweeping destroys lives. When a poster starts off by describing how they are forgiving only weeks out from D-day, they are rug-sweeping and need to be made aware of their new reality.

*What is not helpful though, is discussing how bad other posters are in the thread of a man in pain*, it undermines the faith of the person seeking advice in even the best advice posted on the thread and by posting this, I just triggered a catch 22.

--------------------------------------------

OP, take the advice you need from here and be aware of the rest being points of view, informed points of view for the most part, but points of view by people who may have different core values and deal-breakers than yourself.

Most of us just want to help in the way we wished someone would have helped us back when we were in your shoes.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Dictum Veritas said:


> I disagree, the reality of being cheated on is visceral and rug-sweeping destroys lives. When a poster starts off by describing how they are forgiving only weeks out from D-day, they are rug-sweeping and need to be made aware of their new reality.
> 
> *What is not helpful though, is discussing how bad other posters are in the thread of a man in pain*, it undermines the faith of the person seeking advice in even the best advice posted on the thread and by posting this, I just triggered a catch 22.
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> OP, take the advice you need from here and be aware of the rest being points of view, informed points of view for the most part, but points of view by people who may have different core values and deal-breakers than yourself.
> 
> Most of us just want to help in the way we wished someone would have helped us back when we were in your shoes.


There were some here who criticized him for willing to stay with the wife. That's his decision. He may decide sometime after whether that is the right decision for himself or not 

Our job is to inform and guide, whatever decisions he makes. If he wants to stay, then our job is to help him navigate that. If he wants a separation or a divorce, our job is to guide him in that.

A decision a person makes for themselves is never the wrong decision for themselves.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Gregory Chaucery said:


> There were some here who criticized him for willing to stay with the wife. That's his decision. He may decide sometime after whether that is the right decision for himself or not
> 
> Our job is to inform and guide, whatever decisions he makes. If he wants to stay, then our job is to help him navigate that. If he wants a separation or a divorce, our job is to guide him in that.
> 
> A decision a person makes for themselves is never the wrong decision for themselves.


Why not start a thread for this kind of debate, what poster's may or may not post etc? This is to my mind not the appropriate forum for such a discussion.

ETJ (At least my participation therein).


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Dictum Veritas said:


> Why not start a thread for this kind of debate, what poster's may or may not post etc? This is to my mind not the appropriate forum for such a discussion.
> 
> ETJ (At least my participation therein).


It has been brought up here, but you are correct 
We all need to stop thresdjacking and hope he comes back.


----------



## BoSlander

DosEquis said:


> May as well have picked a single woman off the street and tried to build a relationship with her. Probably would have been more successful without having to drag around the detritus of traitorous betrayal around for years.


You would have.


----------



## BoSlander

frenchpaddy said:


> this topic is showing we are a pack of wolfs , a little poster comes along and not only do we give him in this case our thinking on how he should deal with his marriage problems , but we go as far as re-living every night he and his wife has even had , and relive their whole 18 years of marriage ,
> 
> now it is one thing to give advice in one post or two but is there need to say the same thing in 50 ways and swamp the poster with 10 pages when he came here 2 days ago , last night when I was going to bed we were on page 4 ,or 5 now we are on page 10 , can I read all the posts no , do I want to read all the posts no ,
> 
> would I advise a friend to post a topic on here looking for light on his or her marriage , I think I would but give them a strong warning , and be ready to run before we start playing with their head


I think the OP is smart enough to sift through all the noise and pick out the "gems." Although repetitive, the OP also needs to see that we (the ones that have gone through this sh-t) are all in agreement that the WS ISN'T going to tell him the truth and is going to put him through mental acrobatics to try to understand what happened. And that's where all the commentary comes into play: we give him our experiences and let him figure out, based on HIS circumstantial evidence, what could have happened. 

Being in the OP's shoes is a very lonely place right now. He just basically found out 18 years of his life are essentially POOF. Gone. 

At the very least it is comforting to know that, for the most part, we're all in agreement on the core message.


----------



## BoSlander

Gregory Chaucery said:


> There were some here who criticized him for willing to stay with the wife. That's his decision. He may decide sometime after whether that is the right decision for himself or not
> 
> Our job is to inform and guide, whatever decisions he makes. If he wants to stay, then our job is to help him navigate that. If he wants a separation or a divorce, our job is to guide him in that.
> 
> A decision a person makes for themselves is never the wrong decision for themselves.


It's about making INFORMED decisions.

And that's where we come in. It's best to be overinformed (us) than underinformed (his WS).


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

JBLH said:


> It's about making INFORMED decisions.
> 
> And that's where we come in. It's best to be overinformed (us) than underinformed (his WS).


Being informed does not mean ramping up his fears or anger about the situation.

I just think we could have been better on that point.


----------



## frenchpaddy

it is his marriage his wife his decision , we can only give him our view on what he tells us and not adding and building a life or 500 life's around the information ,
while we wait for the new fresh meat to come and give us our fill or our fix for the day , 

but it is a bit much to let what someone posts got to the point of "The one thing that bothers me overall or This breaks my heart. " 


JBLH said:


> At the very least it is comforting to know that, for the most part, we're all in agreement on the core message.


yes 10 pages of us all in agreement as far as i know not one said different


----------



## BoSlander

Gregory Chaucery said:


> Being informed does not mean ramping up his fears or anger about the situation.
> 
> I just think we could have been better on that point.


The OP is hungry for answers. Being told the truth, or what most likely happened, is part of the process. Not knowing what happened is what is eating him up inside. And we all know that she is going to only tell him 10% of what went on and trickle-thruth him to death. We are here to tell him that what happened wasn't like the movie _Casablanca_ (which is what she's going to try to make it sound like) and more like _Pussyman 5: Captive Audience_. Over the top? Absolutely. Needlessly over-informative? Yes. 

But a dose of the reality he isn't getting right now.


----------



## oldshirt

Gregory Chaucery said:


> Being informed does not mean ramping up his fears or anger about the situation.
> 
> I just think we could have been better on that point.


I get your point that posters should not exploit someone else’s situation so they can express their own anger or grind their own ax.

However people that have knowledge and experience on topic, should share that knowledge and experience such that the other person is aware of the realities even if it results in fear and anger.

In other words if someone is asking for advice and insight from those that have had prior experience, it’s not their role to try to prevent fear and anger. 

If a doctor is assessing a patient and finds that they have cancer, they inform them that they have cancer and they explain the pathophysiology of the disease and how it manifests and what the course of action will be if not treated,, and then they describe the treatment options and what the risks vs benefits and side effects and such of that treatment will be. 

Now none of us are professionals here so we are limited to sharing our own experiences and the knowledge and insight we have obtained along the way. Some of that may or may not be relevant to a particular OP’s situation. 

But either way, our role is to share our experience and knowledge and not to protect the OP from whatever fear or anger they experience when they hear of other people’s experience.


----------



## Jimi007

Gregory Chaucery said:


> Being informed does not mean ramping up his fears or anger about the situation.
> 
> I just think we could have been better on that point.


I totally agree...


----------



## BoSlander

I was in those shoes not too long ago. She wasn’t telling me anything… I knew more about her nightly habits from an old neighbor than from what she was telling me. The lack of information is what used to eat me up inside. And coming to TAM was a lifesaver because, FOR ONCE, I was getting information as to what was really going on. I had no idea about emotional affairs, what cheaters tend to do, how they only tell you a minute part of what really went on, et cetera. All of if I learned from TAM, noise an all. Even negative commentary.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I think OP has vanished as he may not have gotten the information he desired. I was like him, too, when I first got on this site seven years ago. He needs to rip off the band aid and do what needs to be done to get out of infidelity whether it is via R or D. Limbo is no good place to be.


----------



## RebuildingMe

JBLH said:


> I was in those shoes not too long ago. She wasn’t telling me anything… I knew more about her nightly habits from an old neighbor than from what she was telling me. The lack of information is what used to eat me up inside. And coming to TAM was a lifesaver because, FOR ONCE, I was getting information as to what was really going on. I had no idea about emotional affairs, what cheaters tend to do, how they only tell you a minute part of what really went on, et cetera. All of if I learned from TAM, noise an all. Even negative commentary.


But yet you stayed with her, no?


----------



## BoSlander

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I think OP has vanished as he may not have gotten the information he desired. I was like him, too, when I first got on this site seven years ago. He needs to rip off the band aid and do what needs to be done to get out of infidelity whether it is via R or D. Limbo is no good place to be.


Well, if he can't take the information we provide him here... God forbids he finds out what his wife did to the other guy (sexually). THAT is going to be a 6-dimensional gut-wrenching brain bomb that will haunt him for the rest of his days on this Earth.


----------



## BoSlander

RebuildingMe said:


> But yet you stayed with her, no?


No. Moved on.

I called the guy to discuss a personal meeting (I was planning to beat the sh-t out of him, or him out of me, who knows) and he told me that on a particular day we both knew "your wife kissed you on the lips with the same mouth I had cum into minutes before."

That's all I needed to know.


----------



## RebuildingMe

JBLH said:


> No. Moved on.
> 
> I called the guy to discuss a personal meeting (I was planning to beat the sh-t out of him, or him out of me, who knows) and he told me that on a particular day we both knew "your wife kissed you on the lips with the same mouth I had cum into minutes before."
> 
> That's all I needed to know.


You should update your thread.


----------



## Rus47

RebuildingMe said:


> You should update your thread.


I thought his wife passed a polygraph and all was good?


----------



## frenchpaddy

JBLH said:


> Well, if he can't take the information we provide him here... God forbids he finds out what his wife did to the other guy (sexually). THAT is going to be a 6-dimensional gut-wrenching brain bomb that will haunt him for the rest of his days on this Earth.


what difference does it make now if she did every thing in the Kamasutra, or if she had really bad sex with him and they were very badly matched , to fact she had sex with him the fact she went back to his place , the fact she had that much drink , the fact she felt the need to have a girls night out in a pub hooked up with a bunch of others , 
now he is going to give the rest of his life thinking about this she has given their marriage a super stab in the back


----------



## Evinrude58

JBLH said:


> No. Moved on.
> 
> I called the guy to discuss a personal meeting (I was planning to beat the sh-t out of him, or him out of me, who knows) and he told me that on a particular day we both knew "your wife kissed you on the lips with the same mouth I had cum into minutes before."
> 
> That's all I needed to know.


that hurts to read


----------



## TXTrini

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, stories like this often provoke a lot of chest-thumping and tough talk and talk of, "If that were me, I would......"
> 
> But when it actually happens, there are always some kind of mitigating circumstances where they actually say, "Well yeah but............." and then they go on to say how their situation is different or unique and that they need more time to decide what to do or there is some reason they believe prevents them from kicking anyone to the curb.
> 
> I don't think I would immediately kick my wife out if I were to find out today she was cheating. That's not how I conduct my business in any situation. I would not immediately leave or kick her out, but neither would I immediately try to reconcile do the Pick Me Dance or try to "save the marriage."
> 
> I am getting more and more of the belief that whatever action we immediately respond with is most likely going to be the wrong one or at least completely different than what we end up doing in the long run.
> 
> What that means is the ones that immediately try to save the marriage and reconcile are often the ones that end up getting used and abused and exploited and crapped on for years until they either have had and enough and bolt or until their WS finds someone that will actually have them and they leave.
> 
> And the people that do immediately kick them out or they themselves leave often end up taking them back.
> 
> So I don't know if any immediate knee-jerk response is the best.
> 
> The practical side of me says the actual best first action should be a trip to the lawyers office to start taking steps to secure your assets and contact with the children so the WS doesn't suddenly decide to empty all the accounts, grab the kids and take off with the AP to parts unknown.
> 
> And I think it is wise to find out the facts and realities of what a divorce would actually look like and what one's rights and responsibilities will be should a divorce occur by action of either party.
> 
> Are most people probably going to do that immediately? Very doubtful.
> 
> Will I actually do that if I were to find out my partner is cheating? I dunno. There will probably be some factor that I will think is a mitigating circumstance that makes me an exception to that rule as well. We all tend to be like that parent that says do I as I say, not as I do.
> 
> I can say that in the past when a serious GF was cheating on me and I tried my hardest to save the relationship and did the Pick Me Dance that would put John Travolta to shame....... It was the wrong thing to do.


Some of us do have the balls to and have. Why stay with someone who doesn't value you enough to respect you and spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder?

Money isn't everything. I'm saying this as someone who's still working on getting my life together 3 years after DD. It depends on what's important to you and what you're willing to sacrifice...Financial security or self respect. 

OPs got some tough choices to make.


----------



## oldshirt

JBLH said:


> No. Moved on.
> 
> I called the guy to discuss a personal meeting (I was planning to beat the sh-t out of him, or him out of me, who knows) and he told me that on a particular day we both knew "your wife kissed you on the lips with the same mouth I had cum into minutes before."
> 
> That's all I needed to know.


As harsh and nasty as that is, it does support a theory I have had for quite some time. 

I think the vast majority of OM will scatter like cockroaches in the light and will throw the WW under the bus if confronted or when the affair is exposed. The vast majority are just in it for the quick and easy poon and not having to do all that other stuff that relationships entail. 

However, when you do get an OM that is willing to stand his ground and even willing to take a beating and get his azz whupped but still is willing to stand up and continue to the affair,,,, it's a game over moment for the BH. 

I think most WW's will monkey branch to the OM if the OM will take her. 

And I think even if the BH kicks the OM's ass, if the OM comes back and thumbs his nose at it and continues to entertain the WW, the BH will see the futility and disgust send her on her way. 

It's kind of a no-win scenario either way. If the OM does want to stand and fight, the WW is most likely going to go him anyway since she was already willing to risk the marriage to be with him in the first place. 

But if the OM just washes his junk off and says, "Nah, I don't want her, you can have her back." Then the BH is left with a woman that wanted to be with OM but he didn't want her afterwards so the BH is basically left with OM's unwanted leftovers. 
So to tie that back into this thread, If this OM shows up on their doorstep wanting the WW and is willing to stand up and fight for her, The OP may initially take the challenge to stroke his ego, but will soon find himself drowning in his own disgust.

But if they never hear from the OM again, that means he enjoyed her for a night but doesn't want her so he's just leaving his cold crusty leftover casserole on the OP's front porch.


----------



## Megaforce

DudeInProgress said:


> Of course cheating causes irreparable damage to both parties. It’s a vile despicable choice.
> 
> I never said it doesn’t change them, maybe it does. My point is that everyone is capable of crossing that line, especially if they don’t proactively ensure that they have boundaries in place to avoid it.


This is said quite often, this deal that everyone is capable of this type of perfidy. The same was said about certain criminal acts that some of my clients had committed. 
As regards cheating, I am fairly certain that it is not true. I do not include myself in the group for whom it could never happen but I do know some people fairly well that would never cross this line voluntarily. My mom comes to mind. I am certain that she was incapable of this offense. In fact, I know quite a few folks who would never compromise their values like this.
I think it is just as naive and arrogant to presume everyone would willingly go down this pat.


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> As harsh and nasty as that is, it does support a theory I have had for quite some time.
> 
> I think the vast majority of OM will scatter like cockroaches in the light and will throw the WW under the bus if confronted or when the affair is exposed. The vast majority are just in it for the quick and easy poon and not having to do all that other stuff that relationships entail.
> 
> However, when you do get an OM that is willing to stand his ground and even willing to take a beating and get his azz whupped but still is willing to stand up and continue to the affair,,,, it's a game over moment for the BH.
> 
> I think most WW's will monkey branch to the OM if the OM will take her.
> 
> And I think even if the BH kicks the OM's ass, if the OM comes back and thumbs his nose at it and continues to entertain the WW, the BH will see the futility and disgust send her on her way.
> 
> It's kind of a no-win scenario either way. If the OM does want to stand and fight, the WW is most likely going to go him anyway since she was already willing to risk the marriage to be with him in the first place.
> 
> But if the OM just washes his junk off and says, "Nah, I don't want her, you can have her back." Then the BH is left with a woman that wanted to be with OM but he didn't want her afterwards so the BH is basically left with OM's unwanted leftovers.
> So to tie that back into this thread, If this OM shows up on their doorstep wanting the WW and is willing to stand up and fight for her, The OP may initially take the challenge to stroke his ego, but will soon find himself drowning in his own disgust.
> 
> But if they never hear from the OM again, that means he enjoyed her for a night but doesn't want her so he's just leaving his cold crusty leftover casserole on the OP's front porch.


Never fight these guys. The cheating spouse just get even more of an ego stroke being fought over. Why fight and risk injury or incarceration for someone so lacking in worth as a cheating spouse. You just diminish yourself and stroke the cheater's already inflated ego.


----------



## Megaforce

DudeInProgress said:


> Again, I think it depends. There are certainly people with a different, less honorable/loyal mental construct. Absolutely. And I have no tolerance for cheating nor any sympathy for cheaters.
> But even for those who consider ourselves loyal, honorable people, I think it’s foolish to believe that we are somehow immune to cheating based on our mental construct..
> 
> I don’t cheat on my wife. I have never cheated on my wife. I don’t want to cheat on my wife, and I am confident that I won’t ever cheat on my wife.
> 
> But I’m perfectly capable of it and I would be capable of compartmentalizing it. I know that. And as a result I know to avoid situations that would be conducive to cheating or to crossing boundaries which eventually can lead to cheating.


Yes, but you are extrapolating from your own mindset and assigning your own vulnerabilities to others, projecting really. Clearly it is true that others may be similar. But, Quaere, isn't it just as naive and arrogant to assume this about all people everywhere? This theory is unprovable, obviously, but I feel just as certain that there are, in fact, a significant number of people who would simply never cross that line. 
I think there is a continuum as regards the propensity to cheat, as you mention. But, you seem to feel that the far end of the continuum, where it simply would never happen, is unoccupied. I disagree.


----------



## BoSlander

Megaforce said:


> Never fight these guys. The cheating spouse just get even more of an ego stroke being fought over. Why fight and risk injury or incarceration for someone so lacking in worth as a cheating spouse. You just diminish yourself and stroke the cheater's already inflated ego.


In my case I was dealing with a narcissist school psychologist of a wife with a runaway ego who (I suspect) took input on how to pass a polygraph from a colleague. She was a great actor… she looked at me like… almost like her property. She put on a great show, I give her that.

My hope was that, come school season, I was going to catch her in the act, but OM2 dumped her before the school season started, so my only option was going after the guy. Which I did. Found out he had quite the temper so I called him and he spilled the beans without me even saying I was going to kick his rear end.


----------



## Sfort

JBLH said:


> I called him and he spilled the beans without me even saying I was going to kick his rear end.


What did your wife say when you confronted her with this new information? Not trying to TJ here. Is this information in your thread?


----------



## BoSlander

Sfort said:


> What did your wife say when you confronted her with this new information? Not trying to TJ here. Is this information in your thread?


She still claims she loves me to death and that she would never even put herself in a place where cheating could happen, that she’s never cheated on me, etc. In other words, the cheater’s greatest hits.

I mean… there’s obviously something mentally wrong with her.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

oldshirt said:


> *I think the vast majority of OM will scatter like cockroaches in the light and will throw the WW under the bus if confronted or when the affair is exposed. The vast majority are just in it for the quick and easy poon and not having to do all that other stuff that relationships entail. *



Over the years I've heard (or read) many men claim, "married women are the safest ones to have NSA sex with because they won't show up on your doorstep wanting to move in or marry you. They're "safe" and don't expect anything from you."

I agree with your statement. It's extremely low-maintenance "poon." (LOL!)


----------



## Marc878

JBLH said:


> She still claims she loves me to death and that she would never even put herself in a place where cheating could happen, that she’s never cheated on me, etc. In other words, the cheater’s greatest hits.
> 
> I mean… there’s obviously something mentally wrong with her.


They will swear on their parents graves, childrens lives, bibles, etc. Pretty common.
It’s always actions versus words.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


Megaforce said:



Never fight these guys. The cheating spouse just get even more of an ego stroke being fought over. Why fight and risk injury or incarceration for someone so lacking in worth as a cheating spouse. You just diminish yourself and stroke the cheater's already inflated ego.

Click to expand...

*I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.

*HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.

Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.

Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


JBLH said:



My hope was that, come school season, I was going to catch her in the act, but OM2 dumped her before the school season started, so my only option was going after the guy.

Click to expand...

*Honestly. Just the fact that you had to *NUMBER* them to differentiate between them is all you needed to know.


----------



## ConanHub

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


I agree about the cheating women.

I can't speak for other men but I am extremely territorial and my response to intruders is a matter of enforcing my territorial boundaries.

I would dump the bimbo but the idiot that intruded would get attention from me the same as a man I caught rummaging through my belongings in my home.

A clueless guy would just get informed but someone who knowingly tried to mark my territory would get the enjoyment of my company and attention.


----------



## Divinely Favored

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


Because the other guy invaded my territory. It is the ultimate disrespect one guy can do to another is to F the guy's wife. Hopefully if guy survived, he would never screw another man's wife again. 

I would see it no different than if my wife went to work and left the door standing wide open. Guy waltzes in and takes from me. I am gonna deal with him in some way! 

Secondly, the POS should have the moral integrity to not F another man's wife. 

I think what ever happens to an AP the wife should be charged with. Just like if 2 perps rob a liquor store and clerk shoots one perp, the other is charged with the accomplices death.


----------



## oldshirt

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


As I said earlier, OM are in it for the cheap, easy poon. If banging the WW costs them something, 99% of them will scatter like roaches in the light. 

You are correct that the WW is an issue and bears accountability but a visit to the OM is often enough to send him packing and heading for the hills. 

While I cannot condone or encourage an actual crime such as assault that can land the BH in legal trouble, I do support confronting APs and shining the light on their activities and their role. Most of the time that is all it will take to get them out of the picture. 

But as I said earlier, if an OM actually wants the WW and is willing to take a stand for her, Even a beat down won't stop the WW from going to him. She will just see it as him being willing to get his azz kicked for her and the BH will be painted as criminally possessive, controlling and abusive. 

In today's social and legal climate, a physical confrontation between BH and OM will often label the BH as the bad guy and will paint him as the stalker and psycho and criminal.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


For me it's a matter of disrespect.

If the OM didn't know she was married, he has shown me no disrespect and I'd let him go. If he knew of me (in other words just knew she was married) he'd have hell to pay, however, if he had ever seen me face to face, knew me or were a friend or relative, the amount of disrespect he's shown me would merit me burning his life to the ground and nothing, not his sense of safety, reputation nor career etc. would be of the table. Respect would be taught in such cases.

The wife, she'll be getting the same treatment as the disrespecting OM. I'm just wired that way.

Violence against the WW is off the table, but if the opportunity presents itself with the OM and I can do it without legal interference, it's not something I'd regret metering out.


----------



## Evinrude58

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


It’s because the man felt he could steal your greatest treasure with impunity, no fear of repurcussion—— disrespect. Granted, the treasure was given away, but the disrespect is still there snd still is painful. Satisfaction is demanded. That is my perspective and that’s my answer.


----------



## Megaforce

I th


Evinrude58 said:


> It’s because the man felt he could steal your greatest treasure with impunity, no fear of repurcussion—— disrespect. Granted, the treasure was given away, but the disrespect is still there snd still is painful. Satisfaction is demanded. That is my perspective and that’s my answer.


I think the cheater might construe this as your placing value on him or her. They are worthless. I thanked the OM. He had given me my ticket out of a marriage to a monster. His having to deal with her seemed punishment enough.


----------



## Evinrude58

The cheater would, but after finding whatever means necessary to complete the task at hand, I’d tell him he could have her sorry ass. Hopefully she’d know how little she was valued then.


----------



## Divinely Favored

JBLH said:


> In my case I was dealing with a narcissist school psychologist of a wife with a runaway ego who (I suspect) took input on how to pass a polygraph from a colleague. She was a great actor… she looked at me like… almost like her property. She put on a great show, I give her that.
> 
> My hope was that, come school season, I was going to catch her in the act, but OM2 dumped her before the school season started, so my only option was going after the guy. Which I did. Found out he had quite the temper so I called him and he spilled the beans without me even saying I was going to kick his rear end.


She could not have passed unless the poligrapher was inept and wife took something, or she was a sociopath or MPD.


----------



## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I agree I should clarify I’m willing to try and work it out and not make any type of decision. I believe it’s heading in the right direction anything I ask she tells me and knows its going to be a long road for me trusting her again, but it could be the end of my marriage also.


 My husband did something very similar to me very recently. I have known for about 3 weeks (of hell). I do not even know how to process this situation. I will pray for you!


----------



## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> My husband did something very similar to me very recently. I have known for about 3 weeks (of hell). I do not even know how to process this situation. I will pray for you!


Sorry for your situation. If you ever want, post about it but take what you want and need from this site while discarding the rest.


----------



## cp3o

Divinely Favored said:


> She could not have passed unless the poligrapher was inept and wife took something, or she was a sociopath or MPD.


Or a psychopath.


----------



## *Deidre*

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


Agree. I think they just can’t imagine that their wives wanted another man and willingly consented to having sex with him. I’ve read threads on here where women were blaming the OW, too so it could just be what some people say when they can’t fathom that their spouse would betray them like that.

The truth is, much of the time, the OM or the OW thought the wayward spouse wasn’t married at all or they’re in the midst of a divorce. So sometimes, even the “other people” are victims of the wayward spouse.🤷‍♀️


----------



## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12 said:


> We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a week. She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> it’s been about 3 weeks and we both want to work it out and make our marriage better. I know she is remorseful, shows regret and she even told her mom about it. I’m devastated because I feel my wife and best friend has betrayed me. In my heart I believe she won’t do it again but it still gets to me and makes me depressed. I know I shouldn’t but I second guess myself and question everything. I know I did nothing wrong and this is on her but I need to get over and forgive her so we can move forward in our marriage. After telling me she went and had a STD check and she is no longer hanging out with the friend boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc. Any advice would be appreciated and if anything I just needed to get this off my chest.


Any chance she or her friend drive an older blue Nissan, this happened at the end of July and she was in Pennsylvania?

If so, he didn’t know she was married, but he was wearing his ring. She came onto him hard and there was no sign of the friend at all. I am the wife of this particular cheating man and I am devastated.


----------



## Personal

Divinely Favored said:


> Because the other guy invaded my territory. It is the ultimate disrespect one guy can do to another is to F the guy's wife. Hopefully if guy survived, he would never screw another man's wife again.
> 
> I would see it no different than if my wife went to work and left the door standing wide open. Guy waltzes in and takes from me. I am gonna deal with him in some way!
> 
> Secondly, the POS should have the moral integrity to not F another man's wife.
> 
> I think what ever happens to an AP the wife should be charged with. Just like if 2 perps rob a liquor store and clerk shoots one perp, the other is charged with the accomplices death.


Meh.

I’ve been the other man on more than one occasion.

Of which even if their partner does cartwheels. If the wife or girlfriend is offering, and they are attractive, and I’m available, I’d have no problem sharing consensual sex with that person.


----------



## BoSlander

Woundidwife said:


> Any chance she or her friend drive an older blue Nissan, this happened at the end of July and she was in Pennsylvania?
> 
> If so, he didn’t know she was married, but he was wearing his ring. She came onto him hard and there was no sign of the friend at all. I am the wife of this particular cheating man and I am devastated.


Please tell me you’re not joking!


----------



## Personal

Dictum Veritas said:


> For me it's a matter of disrespect.


I’ve been the other man on a few occasions both knowingly and while not knowing it till later.

That said having made no promises to the betrayed, I have never felt any obligation towards them, to not share sex with their partners, when they’re enthusiastically offering.

At the end of the day if the cheater can’t respect their own promises of sexual fidelity, I feel no obligation to respect something that is not respected by a party to that relationship.

If people didn’t want to cheat on their partners sexually, there would be no sexual infidelity. So sexual infidelity is entirely on the cheater.

And for the record, I have sometimes turned down attractive offers even when I have been available. While I have never cheated on any of my own sexual partners (since I am responsible for my own sexual fidelity).


----------



## Wolfman1968

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


Well, there may be something hard-wired into men to react this way, maybe like the way other male herd mammals will chase other males away from their harem. 

On the other hand, I have seen women blame other women for their man's cheating. They do blame the husband as well, but they also reserve a special venom for the s***s, home wreckers, wh***s, etc. that "stole" their man.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


There are several reasons you dont understand this but I will boil it down to three simple ones:
1) You do not have testosterone
2) It is so much deeper than that because of point number 1
3) You do not have testosterone


----------



## Personal

SongoftheSouth said:


> There are several reasons you dont understand this but I will boil it down to three simple ones:
> 1) You do not have testosterone
> 2) It is so much deeper than that because of point number 1
> 3) You do not have testosterone


I don't get it either and I have plenty of testosterone.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Personal said:


> Meh.
> 
> I’ve been the other man on more than one occasion.
> 
> Of which even if their partner does cartwheels. If the wife or girlfriend is offering, and they are attractive, and I’m available, I’d have no problem sharing consensual sex with that person.


Thankfully my wife is as violently monogamous as I am. Prevents me from becoming Dr. Lecter on some AP.


----------



## QuietRiot

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, there may be something hard-wired into men to react this way, maybe like the way other male herd mammals will chase other males away from their harem.
> 
> On the other hand, I have seen women blame other women for their man's cheating. They do blame the husband as well, but they also reserve a special venom for the s***s, home wreckers, wh***s, etc. that "stole" their man.


I don’t blame the AP for my STBX cheating, but I do blame her for being a total piece of garbage. I wanted to rearrange her face. So I don’t think that’s only a male inclination.


----------



## Personal

Divinely Favored said:


> Thankfully my wife is as violently monogamous as I am. Prevents me from becoming Dr. Lecter on some AP.


Which is a good thing for both of you. Since the fact remains, that as long as all marital partners within a marriage choose not to cheat on their spouses, there will be no sexual infidelity in their marriages.


----------



## cp3o

SongoftheSouth said:


> There are several reasons you dont understand this but I will boil it down to three simple ones:
> 1) You do not have testosterone
> 2) It is so much deeper than that because of point number 1
> 3) You do not have testosterone


Your information is incorrect.

Healthy women have testosterone - but healthy men have c. 5 times as much


----------



## Divinely Favored

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t blame the AP for my STBX cheating, but I do blame her for being a total piece of garbage. I wanted to rearrange her face. So I don’t think that’s only a male inclination.


Exactly, my wife has her own AR I built her and she would use it. Her ex kept coming to her work, she finally walked up to his car and stuck a .38 in his temple and warned him if it did not stop his brains would be splattered on his appholstry. That's my girl!


----------



## QuietRiot

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly, my wife has her own AR I built her and she would use it. Her ex kept coming to her work, she finally walked up to his car and stuck a .38 in his temple and war ed him if it did not stop his brains would be splattered on his appholstry. That's my girl!


I think your wife and I would get along well. 🤣


----------



## frenchpaddy

JBLH said:


> Please tell me you’re not joking!


 No I am not joking , we all are different we all have different needs in our marriage ,and we all have different boundaries ,

I will try and explain to you ,
If TOM and Mary are married for 18 years as this op and his wife and they are as far as he knows no problems in the marriage the sex is good they go on nights out take brakes together all is super normal , 

BUT ONE NIGHT 
Mary goes on a girls night out with her friend June , THEY go to a pub , two smart looking younger guys all so out for the night start chatting with them , one of the guys John complements Mary on how sexy she looks , and Mary thanks him and is suprised to get this type compartment from a younger man,

HE HE BUYS HER ANOTHER DRINK 
by this time Mary is feeling light headed from to much drink but agrees to go back with him to his place 

now is this where you think I am joking because I think she was wrong in been out at a bar with a girl friend open to chatting with men flirting enjoying been seduced by men when she is a married lady ,

because I my book if you don't put yourself into a situation you will not make the mistake 
many a married woman has got the same complements from men younger and older but shut it down with flashing her ring and saying " I am married "

so I think she was wrong to ever before she went home with the guy , 
IT was not the time she started to kiss John and he unbuttoned her dress and un hooked her bra and she could feel Johns erection rubbing against her 
and I can't see from Toms point of view what difference after she made so many mistakes , in excepting his come on complements and excepting his drink, when she all ready had enough to drink for a night , if at this point the sex Mary is going to have with John is mind blowing sex for one night of lust or if that sex turned out to be 

Mary unzipped Johns jeans and his AND FOUND WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS a huge erection was in fact a fake cup John had inside his shorts , and in fact John had the smallest penis Mary ever seen AND SHE tried to make love with John but she just in the end was not able , she dressed went home and told Tom she was sorry , 

FOR me it was the fact she when out on a girls night out but turned that into a night of seduction, all that came after was just results of that playful seduction something that was not agreed to , if tom had agreed that when Mary and June were going out to a pub they could seduce other men , play games on single men , and see if the single men would buy them drink then TOM WOULD be partly to blame on what happened after , 

what we don't know about this case is FIRST what type girls night out are these two women used to going on , 
is it just two women out to chat together or is it out testing the waters , because if it is testing some night she was going to get into deep water and end up in too deep ,
another thing we don't know and no one asked by any chance did the guy slip anything in her drink to help her on her way , or even mix something into the drink like just a stronger drink mix


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll never understand the "logic" in men wanting to beat the OM's ass as though the OM is to *blame* for their wives inability to show them the respect they deserve. Unless the guy tied her up or held a knife or gun to her, then she CHOSE to do it. Beating up lover boy isn't going to _*change*_ the fact that she CHOSE to do it.
> 
> *HE'S *not their problem. All HE did was take advantage of low-hanging fruit because it was offered to him.
> 
> Their problem is their *cheating, lying wives*.
> 
> Why men can't seem to SEE this literally boggles my mind.


The wife did cheat and needs to be attended to.
However, since the other man would know to not move on another man's woman, he definitely needs to be attended to as well.

His only excuse is that he didn't know.


----------



## Jimi007

If he truly didn't know , than I can't blame him for hitting it... If he did know than yes I am the same as you...He would need to be attended to. I recently saw a neighbor's wife at a bar with some of her friends. I actually just stopped to pick up a food order. I had to wait so I decided to sit down and have a draft beer . She didn't see me and I didn't say hi either. What I did notice is that guys were buying her drinks/ her friends as well. I also noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band ...Her wedding band is huge bling and a large diamond...My point is you can't miss it.... So if she did sleep with one of the guys . I would not hold it against him. That's just me though


----------



## Woundidwife

Woundidwife said:


> Any chance she or her friend drive an older blue Nissan, this happened at the end of July and she was in Pennsylvania?
> 
> If so, he didn’t know she was married, but he was wearing his ring. She came onto him hard and there was no sign of the friend at all. I am the wife of this particular cheating man and I am devastated.


Not joking. I have been hunting my hometown for this woman for 3 1/2 weeks. He is under the impression that she is not local. He thinks she even gave him a fake name. (Pam)

About 5’5”, brunette, medium build. Psychologist makes sense. She played on every human weakness. Told him how good looking he was, really “listened to him”—conveniently did not talk about herself at all, when he tried to exit the situation to go home, she touched his crotch (she had already been touching his arm and inner thigh), and invited him to “go somewhere”. He was all to willing at that point. =(


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Personal said:


> I’ve been the other man on a few occasions both knowingly and while not knowing it till later.
> 
> That said having made no promises to the betrayed, I have never felt any obligation towards them, to not share sex with their partners, when they’re enthusiastically offering.
> 
> At the end of the day if the cheater can’t respect their own promises of sexual fidelity, I feel no obligation to respect something that is not respected by a party to that relationship.
> 
> If people didn’t want to cheat on their partners sexually, there would be no sexual infidelity. So sexual infidelity is entirely on the cheater.
> 
> And for the record, I have sometimes turned down attractive offers even when I have been available. While I have never cheated on any of my own sexual partners (since I am responsible for my own sexual fidelity).


If you knew someone just like me and still slept with the wife, knowing the husband or of his existence, I promise you, your life as you knew it would not be recognizable to you ever again. There are plenty of men like me still around.


----------



## Personal

Dictum Veritas said:


> There are plenty of men like me still around.


So are you telling me that you are like plenty of other men (myself included regarding my ex-wife), who couldn’t stop their wives enthusiastically choosing to cheat on their husbands?


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Personal said:


> So are you telling me that you are like plenty of other men (myself included regarding my ex-wife), who couldn’t stop their wives enthusiastically choosing to cheat on their husbands?


Everybody is an individual, who will make choices for themselves. There are also consequences for those choices, for both her and any man who would knowingly move onto another man's wife.

If you know a woman is married, tell her to bring her finalized divorce papers with her.


----------



## frenchpaddy

on the question about the man that was seduced or seduced the OPs wife , AND IF HE KNOW SHE WAS MARRIED 
I think while I might like to think there is some code that a man should not seduce a married woman , but in the real world men don't care , they will take any cums that drop from the rich mans table,
I think many would think it was more


----------



## Young at Heart

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly, my wife has her own AR I built her and she would use it. Her ex kept coming to her work, she finally walked up to his car and stuck a .38 in his temple and warned him if it did not stop his brains would be splattered on his appholstry. That's my girl!


OK, I am glad she has firearms and a knowledge of how to use them. However, you and she also need to attend some courses of the legal "use of deadly force" laws. She also needs to understand what "brandishing a firearm" is and how illegal that is. The one thing that the justice system seems to hate more than criminals is vigilantes. 

And yes, I have concealed pistol licenses issued by two different states and I firmly believe that my carry firearm saved my life. I still ended up in a hospital, but I lived. I honestly believe that violence should be avoided if possible. My firearm is for my personal protection and the protection of those I love and care about. I am not the police trying to make others obey laws.

No matter how much we feel we are a victim, vigilante justice is not generally considered appropriate by the justice system. That includes beating up men who have sex with one's wife or people who stock someone.


----------



## Woundidwife

I want to rearrange the OW’s face…please let me know if she is the one I have been looking for. I NEED to have a conversation with the woman who destroyed my world.


----------



## BoSlander

frenchpaddy said:


> No I am not joking , we all are different we all have different needs in our marriage ,and we all have different boundaries ,
> 
> I will try and explain to you ,
> If TOM and Mary are married for 18 years as this op and his wife and they are as far as he knows no problems in the marriage the sex is good they go on nights out take brakes together all is super normal ,
> 
> BUT ONE NIGHT
> Mary goes on a girls night out with her friend June , THEY go to a pub , two smart looking younger guys all so out for the night start chatting with them , one of the guys John complements Mary on how sexy she looks , and Mary thanks him and is suprised to get this type compartment from a younger man,
> 
> HE HE BUYS HER ANOTHER DRINK
> by this time Mary is feeling light headed from to much drink but agrees to go back with him to his place
> 
> now is this where you think I am joking because I think she was wrong in been out at a bar with a girl friend open to chatting with men flirting enjoying been seduced by men when she is a married lady ,
> 
> because I my book if you don't put yourself into a situation you will not make the mistake
> many a married woman has got the same complements from men younger and older but shut it down with flashing her ring and saying " I am married "
> 
> so I think she was wrong to ever before she went home with the guy ,
> IT was not the time she started to kiss John and he unbuttoned her dress and un hooked her bra and she could feel Johns erection rubbing against her
> and I can't see from Toms point of view what difference after she made so many mistakes , in excepting his come on complements and excepting his drink, when she all ready had enough to drink for a night , if at this point the sex Mary is going to have with John is mind blowing sex for one night of lust or if that sex turned out to be
> 
> Mary unzipped Johns jeans and his AND FOUND WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS a huge erection was in fact a fake cup John had inside his shorts , and in fact John had the smallest penis Mary ever seen AND SHE tried to make love with John but she just in the end was not able , she dressed went home and told Tom she was sorry ,
> 
> FOR me it was the fact she when out on a girls night out but turned that into a night of seduction, all that came after was just results of that playful seduction something that was not agreed to , if tom had agreed that when Mary and June were going out to a pub they could seduce other men , play games on single men , and see if the single men would buy them drink then TOM WOULD be partly to blame on what happened after ,
> 
> what we don't know about this case is FIRST what type girls night out are these two women used to going on ,
> is it just two women out to chat together or is it out testing the waters , because if it is testing some night she was going to get into deep water and end up in too deep ,
> another thing we don't know and no one asked by any chance did the guy slip anything in her drink to help her on her way , or even mix something into the drink like just a stronger drink mix


I was responding to Woundidwife, not you...


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Young at Heart said:


> OK, I am glad she has firearms and a knowledge of how to use them. However, you and she also need to attend some courses of the legal "use of deadly force" laws. She also needs to understand what "brandishing a firearm" is and how illegal that is. The one thing that the justice system seems to hate more than criminals is vigilantes.
> 
> And yes, I have concealed pistol licenses issued by two different states and I firmly believe that my carry firearm saved my life. I still ended up in a hospital, but I lived. I honestly believe that violence should be avoided if possible. My firearm is for my personal protection and the protection of those I love and care about. I am not the police trying to make others obey laws.
> 
> No matter how much we feel we are a victim, vigilante justice is not generally considered appropriate by the justice system. That includes beating up men who have sex with one's wife or people who stock someone.


We hear you, but we are all planning to plea momentarily insane. Then, we will demand a trial by jury with our peers, fellow TAM's.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> I want to rearrange the OW’s face…please let me know if she is the one I have been looking for. I NEED to have a conversation with the woman who destroyed my world.


Stop . This is your husbands fault. His. Quit stalking places. This is about your husband being the cheater not the victim.Hw destroyed your world


----------



## frenchpaddy

JBLH said:


> I was responding to Woundidwife, not you...


 you quoted two posts , my post was one now you edited your post and deleted my post out , lol


----------



## olk

Man, it wasn't a one-time mistake, but a conscious choice, or rather a chain of conscious choices, when she could have stopped many times, but didn't. Your wife is not a child, not a teenager, but an adult experienced woman who knows what is good, what is bad, knows the consequences of her actions. But she did it anyway! She has fully manifested the psychological peculiarity of all cheaters - the lack of inhibition, when they cannot resist temptation and does not think that they can hurt those who love and care about them.
The fact that she was drunk does not make it easier, but only aggravates her guilt. When a person is drunk, he shows his true nature, because alcohol weakens his ability to keep the subconscious secret. Consequently, in her subconscious, she wanted to cheat on you, was ready to cheat on you and she cheated on you. 
There is no certainty that she will not follow her inner call again and will not **** the guys she likes again. Why not? After all, she proved: her twisted morality, stable character traits allow her to betray and lie (after all, she kept a secret for 2 weeks!) And most likely it was not her conscience (guilt) that tormented her, but the fear that someone else would tell you about her affair. She may have been blackmailed by her lover or one of her "friends".
In general, there are a lot of strange things in this story. Who is this guy? How does she know him? Why did they go to him? (Going home drunk to a guy is extremely crazy!) If this is her coworker, then why didn't she quit her job immediately? Is she waiting for a new reason to have sex with him? 
No matter how many times an unfaithful partner has had sex with AP, it's still cheating. And you know, they do say, "Once a cheater always a cheater." So don't believe a word she says: she may have had affairs in the past, she may have an affair right now, she will have affairs in the future as soon as the opportunity turns up.
It may sound cruel, but considering the circumstances and the fact that you have turned to our community for advice, I think that the best way out for you is a divorce. If you stay, you will not accept the affair, the ghost of the affair and her lover will always be present in your house, between you and in your marital bed. Only bertayed partners can reconcile, who do not have deep feelings for a cheater, who does not care, who has thick skin, who also has sins, who has a strong emotional dependence on the cheater, low self-esteem and lack of pride. If you were like that, you wouldn't have written your post. Am I wrong?
P.S. If, contrary to reason, you decide to start reconciliation, then at least conduct a deep investigation of her actions in the past and present, it is best to hire a PI.


----------



## Jimi007

olk said:


> Man, it wasn't a one-time mistake, but a conscious choice, or rather a chain of conscious choices, when she could have stopped many times, but didn't. Your wife is not a child, not a teenager, but an adult experienced woman who knows what is good, what is bad, knows the consequences of her actions. But she did it anyway! She has fully manifested the psychological peculiarity of all cheaters - the lack of inhibition, when they cannot resist temptation and does not think that they can hurt those who love and care about them.
> The fact that she was drunk does not make it easier, but only aggravates her guilt. When a person is drunk, he shows his true nature, because alcohol weakens his ability to keep the subconscious secret. Consequently, in her subconscious, she wanted to cheat on you, was ready to cheat on you and she cheated on you.
> There is no certainty that she will not follow her inner call again and will not **** the guys she likes again. Why not? After all, she proved: her twisted morality, stable character traits allow her to betray and lie (after all, she kept a secret for 2 weeks!) And most likely it was not her conscience (guilt) that tormented her, but the fear that someone else would tell you about her affair. She may have been blackmailed by her lover or one of her "friends".
> In general, there are a lot of strange things in this story. Who is this guy? How does she know him? Why did they go to him? (Going home drunk to a guy is extremely crazy!) If this is her coworker, then why didn't she quit her job immediately? Is she waiting for a new reason to have sex with him?
> No matter how many times an unfaithful partner has had sex with AP, it's still cheating. And you know, they do say, "Once a cheater always a cheater." So don't believe a word she says: she may have had affairs in the past, she may have an affair right now, she will have affairs in the future as soon as the opportunity turns up.
> It may sound cruel, but considering the circumstances and the fact that you have turned to our community for advice, I think that the best way out for you is a divorce. If you stay, you will not accept the affair, the ghost of the affair and her lover will always be present in your house, between you and in your marital bed. Only bertayed partners can reconcile, who do not have deep feelings for a cheater, who does not care, who has thick skin, who also has sins, who has a strong emotional dependence on the cheater, low self-esteem and lack of pride. If you were like that, you wouldn't have written your post. Am I wrong?
> P.S. If, contrary to reason, you decide to start reconciliation, then at least conduct a deep investigation of her actions in the past and present, it is best to hire a PI.


You apparently either have a reading comprehension problem or you didn't read her thread. Her husband admitted he had a ONS...Get it now ?


----------



## Jimi007

@Woundidwife ....did you go back to the bar that your husband was at ? They might be able to tell you if she was a regular. That's where I would start. Bring a picture of your husband maybe they will remember him. It's a long shot but who knows .


----------



## snowbum

Why are helping someone who’s not stable find a woman?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> I want to rearrange the OW’s face…please let me know if she is the one I have been looking for. I NEED to have a conversation with the woman who destroyed my world.


That woman didn’t destroy your world. She is not to blame for what happened. Your husband made choices. You don’t need to have any conversations with her, she isn’t the problem. Your husband would LOVE to have two women fighting over him, it would ratchet up his ego tremendously. It’s beneath you to stalk her, and it’s unwise because it’s harassment and against the law.

I know it’s hard to find out the man you married isn’t the man you thought he was. Your anger is normal and understandable. Point it where it belongs: at HIM.


----------



## ConanHub

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t blame the AP for my STBX cheating, but I do blame her for being a total piece of garbage. I wanted to rearrange her face. So I don’t think that’s only a male inclination.


Mrs. Conan is pretty territorial as well.

Other women do need to respect her territory.😉


----------



## ConanHub

snowbum said:


> Why are helping someone who’s not stable find a woman?


Yup. She needs healing, not finding a bar wench that got picked up by her husband.


----------



## Woundidwife

I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


----------



## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


Well, he bought her drinks, not the other way around.

I doubt he was saying "Please don't do this! I'm a married man!" LoL!


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


You won't get closure by finding out. 
Any question that she did answer would just lead to more questions. 
It could be for any reason, from getting one rubbed off to wanting to feel attractive by being able to attract a man.


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


If you were on a diet, and someone put a piece of cake in front of your face and you decided to eat it, it’s not the person’s fault who tempted you. You willingly chose to ate it. She tempted him true, and he took the chance to have a ONS. That’s on him. And cheaters water down the truth because they think this will help them be forgiven sooner. So you don’t really know the truth, sadly. Only what he wants you to know. 

If you go on making excuses for your husband, he will do it again because he’ll see that you don’t hold him responsible. Or responsible enough.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


Remember, your only source of what happened and how it went down is your husband, the man that cheated on you and hid this for a month. You can't believe a word he said. She didn't target him. They were both equally at fault. It takes two to tango as they say.


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## re16

@Woundidwife has her own thread...









Unbelievable ONS, Husband Confessed


My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





...


----------



## Woundidwife

He does take full responsibility. He knows it is all his fault and a series of horrible choices. He does not blame me, but admits he believed there were flaws in our relationship that SEEMED to be bigger problems than he now realizes. Now he knows they were not so bad. 
I was content. He wasn’t perfect, but I wasn’t really looking for reasons to stay either…any good reason could have been the one to leave him. He provided a whooper. 
My first instinct was to run, and I did that for a few days. 
No one is perfect, but I didn’t think it was too much to ask to remember he was married and just keep his **** in his pants. 
I was hit on pretty hardcore at that work event, but had no problem turning the (very good looking) prospect away. I expected the same respect in return. 

EVERYONE (about 3,000 people) heard ME talking about my 27th wedding anniversary at that work event. Meanwhile, he is banging a stranger at almost exactly the same time. CRUSHED.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


Listen, I wanted to beat the ever loving piss out of the OW. I even was within inches of her person, but I did not do so. I didn’t even raise my voice. Want to know why? 1. Jail. No thank you. 2. It was my husband that CHOSE to do this to me, even if this chick was the hottest piece of ass on the planet and crapped gold nuggets… NOTHING should make a real man betray the woman he vowed to protect and the mother of his children. At that point… he isn’t even a MAN anymore. It’s HIM that’s the issue, it’s just much easier to be angry at and hate the OW and believe it’s all her fault. 

At the end of the day you either have a man that’s willing to throw you aside for trash, or you don’t. That makes him worse than the garbage he hooks up with in my book.

The odds of the OPs wife being the OW are microscopic. Come on. Do you have any idea how many people are hooking up with their AP or ONS at bars all across the nation? Stop this. You’re focusing on all the wrong things to distract yourself from how disgusting your husband is.


----------



## Woundidwife

QuietRiot said:


> You’re focusing on all the wrong things to distract yourself from how disgusting your husband is.


 You are absolutely right. I am pretty sure this is my brain’s way of trying to protect itself.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> I have been there. No one knows her, but probably she gave a fake name anyway. I would just like to ask her why. She was so aggressive, and *it worked on my otherwise reliable husband. *I want to know her motivation to intentionally target a married man. Was it a game for her? It surely isn’t for me.


If it worked on him, he was never reliable. I still don't think this is the first time this has happened, it's probably just the first time you know about it happening. It's very rare for cheaters to get caught on the first instance.


----------



## Woundidwife

He wasn’t caught. He confessed. It was the perfect crime. I NEVER would have known—to the point where the ONLY evidence I have is that he told me. 

So I do not think it has ever happened before and I do believe him. He cries with me, and sometimes I say horrible, hurtful (but deserved) things that also make him cry. He has become very loving, attentive, and clingy—extremely remorseful and submissive. He told me because he said I deserved to know and had the right to be able to make my own decision about whether I would want to stay with him or not. I am giving him credit for that, but it does little to ease the pain and nothing to erase this event from my memory.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> You are absolutely right. I am pretty sure this is my brain’s way of trying to protect itself.


Go back to your thread and start interacting, considering, contemplating. Let go of this OW revenge desire. This thread is not where you need to be. This is not where your healing lies.


----------



## drencrom

JustAnj said:


> No no, I mean before it became a total reality for her. These things linger and feelings linger due to something in the relationship not being addressed or the person not addressing thier needs.
> 
> The Convo should have been more real, like.
> 
> "I wanted to talk to you about some feelings I have been having that are making me feel distant from our relationship, it's been nagging at me and I wanted to be honest with you because I care about you and our marriage. I feel like our relationship is becoming casual and I am finding myself attracted to other men. I fantasize about possibly being with another man and having that spontaneous random fun feeling. I know this is hard to hear, I just wanted to talk to you about this, and I am unsure if this is something I actually want or if I wish our marriage was more spontaneous and fun."


Pretty much the same thing I said only in a more casual way. 



> This is a conversation that could have led them to approach a sex therapist or to explore each other in a manner that could help improve their marriage.


Sure, and from that point on he'll have to do everything right out of fear his wife will be going out to look for strange. That's emotional extortion as far as I'm concerned.

Now if the conversation you put forth above was stressing the importance of her frustration WITHOUT the "I want to bang another man" talk, however you want to word it, that would be more my recommendation. Because like I said, most men, IMO, would take that and either get pissed off, dive into a deep depression, or they could do what she wants while always having it in the back of his mind that she wants to bang other men. Unless he is a complete ****, that conversation is NOT going to go well. It might get him to do some temporary hysterical bonding, but now, whether he shows it or not, he is now a broken man who has a wife that basically threatened him. I know that's not the way you are going to see it, but coming from a man's point of view, any woman that would tell me that can pack her bags. But then again, that's easy for me to say because I'm not married and won't be again....precisely because of all this kind of entitlement BS we hear on here. Moot though, she already did the deed, got what she wanted, now she either needs to be dumped, or face serious consequences.


----------



## drencrom

JustAnj said:


> My husband and I have talked about open marriage


Well this certainly explains your POV on this.


----------



## drencrom

TRy said:


> Notice how many posters say that they would immediately tell her to pack her bags, and how rarely that actually happens on this site?


I say it because I am not married and have been in this kind of situation before. I did the weak, not standing up for myself thing for a while. Now looking back on it, yes, that's what I would do if any woman gave me this kind of conversation ever again.


----------



## Beach123

Woundidwife said:


> I want to rearrange the OW’s face…please let me know if she is the one I have been looking for. I NEED to have a conversation with the woman who destroyed my world.


ummmmm, the ONE that destroyed your world is your cheating husband!
He would have taken ANY woman…she just happened to be in front of him.

place the blame where it belongs - on HIM!


----------



## drencrom

Beach123 said:


> ummmmm, the ONE that destroyed your world is your cheating husband!
> He would have taken ANY woman…she just happened to be in front of him.
> 
> place the blame where it belongs - on HIM!


That doesn't mean the OW is blameless, just less blameless, unless she didn't know he was married.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Young at Heart said:


> OK, I am glad she has firearms and a knowledge of how to use them. However, you and she also need to attend some courses of the legal "use of deadly force" laws. She also needs to understand what "brandishing a firearm" is and how illegal that is. The one thing that the justice system seems to hate more than criminals is vigilantes.
> 
> And yes, I have concealed pistol licenses issued by two different states and I firmly believe that my carry firearm saved my life. I still ended up in a hospital, but I lived. I honestly believe that violence should be avoided if possible. My firearm is for my personal protection and the protection of those I love and care about. I am not the police trying to make others obey laws.
> 
> No matter how much we feel we are a victim, vigilante justice is not generally considered appropriate by the justice system. That includes beating up men who have sex with one's wife or people who stock someone.


We are quite aware, I have carried a badge and sidearm for over 22 yrs for the State of Texas. In our area, a stalker STBXWH that has tried to intimidate his STBXWH would be seen as someone who needs an azz whipping or gun stuck in his face and warned if your not big enough for the prior. Don't know anyone who would charge or convict a 5'03" female that did that to her stalker. Thank the Lord there is still some in the CJ system that use common sense in deciding to charge someone or not.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Jimi007 said:


> If he truly didn't know , than I can't blame him for hitting it... If he did know than yes I am the same as you...He would need to be attended to. I recently saw a neighbor's wife at a bar with some of her friends. I actually just stopped to pick up a food order. I had to wait so I decided to sit down and have a draft beer . She didn't see me and I didn't say hi either. What I did notice is that guys were buying her drinks/ her friends as well. I also noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band ...Her wedding band is huge bling and a large diamond...My point is you can't miss it.... So if she did sleep with one of the guys . I would not hold it against him. That's just me though


Did you inform her hubby like you should have?


----------



## QuietRiot

Divinely Favored said:


> We are quite aware, I have carried a badge and sidearm for over 22 yrs for the State of Texas. In our area, a stalker STBXWH that has tried to intimidate his STBXWH would be seen as someone who needs an azz whipping or gun stuck in his face and warned if your not big enough for the prior. Don't know anyone who would charge or convict a 5'03" female that did that to her stalker. Thank the Lord there is still some in the CJ system that use common sense in deciding to charge someone or not.


She’s not a statistic and he stopped stalking her. Win. With the number of women who are killed by their stalker ex… I don’t feel sorry for him soiling his pants that day.


----------



## Evinrude58

Personal said:


> I’ve been the other man on a few occasions both knowingly and while not knowing it till later.
> 
> That said having made no promises to the betrayed, I have never felt any obligation towards them, to not share sex with their partners, when they’re enthusiastically offering.
> 
> At the end of the day if the cheater can’t respect their own promises of sexual fidelity, I feel no obligation to respect something that is not respected by a party to that relationship.
> 
> If people didn’t want to cheat on their partners sexually, there would be no sexual infidelity. So sexual infidelity is entirely on the cheater.
> 
> And for the record, I have sometimes turned down attractive offers even when I have been available. While I have never cheated on any of my own sexual partners (since I am responsible for my own sexual fidelity).


Nice mental gymnastics acting like banging married women isn’t wrong. Disappointing


----------



## snowbum

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan is pretty territorial as well.
> 
> Other women do need to respect her territory.😉


She shouldn’t have to worry about her territory. There should be reason to think she has any reason you’d be untrustworthy.


----------



## snowbum

Sleeping with a stranger using no protection days before your anniversary was his solution. He feels better after getting a piece of ass. Got it.


----------



## ConanHub

snowbum said:


> She shouldn’t have to worry about her territory. There should be reason to think she has any reason you’d be untrustworthy.


I know you don't get it and that's ok but your mindset isn't reality.

Making people respect your territory or boundaries is essential to any successful endeavor be it professional or personal. Mrs. C had to stand up to her family. I have had to stand up to her family and other opponents of our relationship.

The same goes for anyone trying to intrude on our marriage as a would be rival or usurper. My wife will not betray me AND anyone trying to harm us by interloping will get attention from me.

Mrs C and I both love, trust and respect one another at very high levels AND we also watch what is ours.

I'm not concerned about my wife's loyalty AND I still protect my boundaries and territory.

I've eliminated friends and relatives that crossed boundaries they shouldn't have.

That's being territorial and making people respect boundaries.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

cp3o said:


> Your information is incorrect.
> 
> Healthy women have testosterone - but healthy men have c. 5 times as much


of course women have T but it is insignificant compared to a man thus the difference in perspective. However, since boys can be girls and just recently are somehow biologically capable of giving birth and women can be men today I guess it doesn't matter


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> You are absolutely right. I am pretty sure this is my brain’s way of trying to protect itself.


You’re doing it because you’re going to stay with him and so you’re trying to make sense of it. But you can’t because cheating never makes sense to the rational person so just let the idea of her go. She likely wouldn’t tell you the truth anyway (not that I think you’re getting the truth from your husband either — cheaters lie).


----------



## Trident

TexasMom1216 said:


> I still don't think this is the first time this has happened, it's probably just the first time you know about it happening.


You said this on the other thread too. In both cases you have absolutely no way of substantiating this. 

What's your goal here? To inflict more pain for no good reason?


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> He wasn’t caught. He confessed. It was the perfect crime. I NEVER would have known—to the point where the ONLY evidence I have is that he told me.
> 
> So I do not think it has ever happened before and I do believe him. He cries with me, and sometimes I say horrible, hurtful (but deserved) things that also make him cry. He has become very loving, attentive, and clingy—extremely remorseful and submissive. He told me because he said I deserved to know and had the right to be able to make my own decision about whether I would want to stay with him or not. I am giving him credit for that, but it does little to ease the pain and nothing to erase this event from my memory.


It will take years — not weeks or months — to get beyond this (if you even can; many can’t).


----------



## *Deidre*

@Tbumgarner12 - how are things going?


----------



## Rus47

Gregory Chaucery said:


> You won't get closure by finding out.
> Any question that she did answer would just lead to more questions.
> It could be for any reason, from getting one rubbed off to wanting to feel attractive by being able to attract a man.


I have impression that some people get a high from getting a married person to cheat with them. The woman probably has done this in many ways many times. And gets very excited because she can pick up whoever she wants whenever she wants. The drunk married guy with the wedding ring was a target of opportunity.

There are TAM people who brag about being the OM or OW. Some more than once. It is a badge of honor.

Not excusing anyone who succumbs to temptation. They are adults and if they will betray the partner they promised fidelity to, they are despicable.


----------



## Amplifi

I'm very sorry you've been put in what in many ways is an impossible situation. I think most people's initial inclination, or need, even, is to work things out when they've been betrayed by their spouse. It certainly was mine. However, what I learned, is that for me at least, my (at the time) wife's cheating was simply not forgivable. Or if it was forgivable - it was still irreparable.

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying to fix things, but I learned this: it will NEVER, EVER go away. Trust? Gone, forever. You can try to gamble and hope that she never betrays you again, but you have to remember: She committed the ULTIMATE betrayal against you. It was NOT a "mistake". It was a calculated deception and betrayal that she KNEW would cause you profound pain, suffering, emotional and probably physical distress. She put your physical health in potentially grave danger. Why? To allow herself a few minutes of cheap pleasure.

Think about this: she was completely willing and able to sacrifice you in a profound way, to get her rocks off for a few minutes. For a few moments of cheap thrills, she pissed on you, threw you in a ditch, doused you in gasoline and lit a match. She violated every vow she took, she broke every promise...and for what? A cheap thrill with a dirtball.

You can choose to trust her again, but she is not and never will be trustworthy. When I was attempting to reconcile with my now ex-wife (I divorced her), it was pure hell. I would maybe forget about what she did for a few minutes and be OK, then BOOM! It would punch me in the gut and the horror of the reality I was living would knock me down. That doesn't go away. It MAY fade...but it'll never be gone.

Having sex with another person behind your spouse's back is NOT A MISTAKE. It is a calculated, cruel, violation and betrayal that was done for nothing more than the cheater's own selfish, dirty, fleeting satisfaction. At a cost to be paid by you, in the most profound and painful of ways, forever. I divorced my cheating wife - that was 10 years ago, and even though I am rid of her, the scars and trauma remain.

Think long and hard before you decide to stay with someone who has proven how little you mean to them.


----------



## 342693

Rus47 said:


> Not excusing anyone who succumbs to temptation. They are adults and if they will betray the partner they promised fidelity to, they are despicable.


IMO, there is a special place in Hell for the unfaithful. That's the ultimate betrayal.


----------



## jlg07

Jimi007 said:


> If he truly didn't know , than I can't blame him for hitting it... If he did know than yes I am the same as you...He would need to be attended to. I recently saw a neighbor's wife at a bar with some of her friends. I actually just stopped to pick up a food order. I had to wait so I decided to sit down and have a draft beer . She didn't see me and I didn't say hi either. What I did notice is that guys were buying her drinks/ her friends as well. I also noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band ...Her wedding band is huge bling and a large diamond...My point is you can't miss it.... So if she did sleep with one of the guys . I would not hold it against him. That's just me though


I think a small note to that neighbor's husband about what you saw is in order.....


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Note:*- No more threadjacks please, folks? Thank you.


----------



## cp3o

SongoftheSouth said:


> of course women have T but it is insignificant compared to a man thus the difference in perspective. However, since boys can be girls and just recently are somehow biologically capable of giving birth and women can be men today I guess it doesn't matter


Did you know that your post
_There are several reasons you dont _(sic)_ understand this but I will boil it down to three simple ones:
1) You do not have testosterone
2) It is so much deeper than that because of point number 1
3) You do not have testosterone_ 
was wrong when you pressed *Post Reply*?


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> You are absolutely right. I am pretty sure this is my brain’s way of trying to protect itself.


Perhaps he never mentioned being married.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> He wasn’t caught. He confessed. It was the perfect crime. I NEVER would have known—to the point where the ONLY evidence I have is that he told me.
> 
> So I do not think it has ever happened before and I do believe him. He cries with me, and sometimes I say horrible, hurtful (but deserved) things that also make him cry. He has become very loving, attentive, and clingy—extremely remorseful and submissive. He told me because he said I deserved to know and had the right to be able to make my own decision about whether I would want to stay with him or not. I am giving him credit for that, but it does little to ease the pain and nothing to erase this event from my memory.


I am skeptical re his motivation for confessing. As has been pointed out, there are just too many other inconsistencies in his story: 1) Long term married partner getting so angry one suspected drinking he gets drunk, heads to a bar and starts buying drinks.2) knows of a secluded spot right away 3) 40 some odd years old and fails to realize buying drinks is an overture. I doubt his guilt was eating at him. But, he is a liar and you may never get the truth. Polygraph him.


----------



## gr8ful1

Lol this might be a new record number of pages since OP last posted …


----------



## Rus47

gr8ful1 said:


> Lol this might be a new record number of pages since OP last posted …


Not even close lol.


----------



## syhoybenden

It's been 5 days since he started the thread and last signed in.


----------



## drencrom

EDIT: didn't want to T/J


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Personal said:


> I’ve been the other man on a few occasions both knowingly and while not knowing it till later.
> 
> *That said having made no promises to the betrayed, I have never felt any obligation towards them, to not share sex with their partners, when they’re enthusiastically offering.*
> 
> At the end of the day if the cheater can’t respect their own promises of sexual fidelity, I feel no obligation to respect something that is not respected by a party to that relationship.
> 
> If people didn’t want to cheat on their partners sexually, there would be no sexual infidelity. So sexual infidelity is entirely on the cheater.


Sounds like mental gymnastics to make you feel okay with screwing another man's partner. No problem sticking your penis where another man has been ejaculating, maybe multiple men? No issues with being a party to breaking up two parents? 

If cheaters had no willing partners there would be no sexual infidelity.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I’ve been the other man on a few occasions both knowingly and while not knowing it till later.
> 
> That said having made no promises to the betrayed, I have never felt any obligation towards them, to not share sex with their partners, when they’re enthusiastically offering.
> 
> At the end of the day if the cheater can’t respect their own promises of sexual fidelity, I feel no obligation to respect something that is not respected by a party to that relationship.


This shows spectacularly low character on your part. But as long as you're getting what you want and the destruction of other, innocent bystanders doesn't bother you, I suppose, carry on.


----------



## Personal

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sounds like mental gymnastics to make you feel okay with screwing another man's partner.


As best as I can recall, when I married my wife she made a promise of sexual fidelity to me. At the same time as best as I can recall, you didn't make any vows or promises to me not to share sex with my wife. Just like no other single human being on the planet, made a vow to me saying they wouldn't want to share sex with me. So you are not responsible for my wife's sexual fidelity and you do not owe me any obligation not to share sex with my wife if she wants to consensually share sex with you.

At the end of the day, I am responsible for my own sexual fidelity, as are you, as is my wife, as is every single other person who promises sexual fidelity to their sexual partners.

That said, it sounds like you're doing some mental gymnastics, in confusing who is responsible for maintaining ones own sexual fidelity.


----------



## Amplifi

Evinrude58 said:


> Nice mental gymnastics acting like banging married women isn’t wrong. Disappointing


Not only does he not think it's wrong - this is actually a forum for him to boast about it. This is "Coping with infidelity", not "Bragging about infidelity".


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> If cheaters had no willing partners there would be no sexual infidelity.


Surely. But they will always find *many* willing partners in many places. Kinda like a thief will always find things to steal from someone.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> This shows spectacularly low character on your part.


It doesn't.

That said, it is certainly a demonstration of spectacularly low character, to ascribe blame for something on those who are not responsible for that something.

Fortunately I understand what I am responsible for and what I am not responsible for. Which is why I have never cheated on any of my sexual partners. Since the only person entirely responsible for my sexual fidelity is myself and no one else.

Think further, and then you might understand that, there would be no such thing as marital infidelity if those who are married chose not to undertake marital infidelity.

It's really not that hard to figure out.


----------



## Jimi007

An old timer once told me...It doesn't matter if she big , little , pretty or ugly..If she spreads her legs, someone will be there


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> As best as I can recall, when I married my wife she made a promise of sexual fidelity to me. At the same time as best as I can recall, you didn't make any vows or promises to me not to share sex with my wife. Just like no other single human being on the planet, made a vow to me saying they wouldn't want to share sex with me. So you are not responsible for my wife's sexual fidelity and you do not owe me any obligation not to share sex with my wife if she wants to consensually share sex with you.
> 
> At the end of the day, I am responsible for my own sexual fidelity, as are you, as is my wife, as is every single other person who promises sexual fidelity to their sexual partners.
> 
> That said, it sounds like you're doing some mental gymnastics, in confusing who is responsible for maintaining ones own sexual fidelity.


So your logic is - you can be as horrible a person as you want to be, as long as you didn't specifically promise not to do horrible things. Nice guy.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> It doesn't.


It does, by its very definition. If you're going to be a person of extremely low character, at least don't pretend you're not. It's embarrassing for you.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> It's really not that hard to figure out.


You certainly aren't.


----------



## Jimi007

He also told me...." If she doesn't blow you before your married....Thats not going to change after your married " ....lol
Smart man


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Not only does he not think it's wrong - this is actually a forum for him to boast about it. This is "Coping with infidelity", not "Bragging about infidelity".


I was cheated on by my ex-wife, which is why she is now my ex-wife. That said I do not ascribe any blame on my ex-wife's infidelity on the other man. Since he made no promise of fidelity to me, unlike my ex-wife who is entirely responsible for her sexual infidelity.

That said if you are looking to cope with infidelity, my advice is to divorce cheaters, since their behaviour should sensibly, see them forfeit their opportunity to remain with the person they cheated on.

Of which in my experience, I found dumping my ex-wife a splendid way of coping with infidelity and moving on with my life.

Also it is worth understanding that, one would do well to blame the actual cheater. Since they are the person responsible for their betrayal. Since seriously, people don't cheat on their spouses by accident.


----------



## Personal

Rus47 said:


> Surely. But they will always find *many* willing partners in many places. Kinda like a thief will always find things to steal from someone.


Steal?

The legal reality is humans aren't supposed to be someones property. Slavery is poor form, don't you know? Fortunately in civilised countries in the modern era, none of us actually own our spouses as property, and they don't own us as property either.

So there is nothing being stolen, not forgetting there is no theft of anything, especially that which is being freely and enthusiastically given.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I was cheated on by my ex-wife, which is why she is now my ex-wife. That said I do not ascribe any blame on my ex-wife's infidelity on the other man. Since he made no promise of fidelity to me, unlike my ex-wife who is entirely responsible for her sexual infidelity.
> 
> That said if you are looking to cope with infidelity, my advice is to divorce cheaters, since their behaviour should sensibly, see them forfeit their opportunity to remain with the person they cheated on.
> 
> Of which in my experience, I found dumping my ex-wife a splendid way of coping with infidelity and moving on with my life.
> 
> Also it is worth understanding that, one would do well to blame the actual cheater. Since they are the person responsible for their betrayal. Since seriously, people don't cheat on their spouses by accident.


Have you actually convinced yourself of this hilarious non-logic, or are you here merely for entertainment purposes? Nobody is impressed with the fact that you're a proud homewrecker. It's gross.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Have you actually convinced yourself of this hilarious non-logic, or are you here merely for entertainment purposes? Nobody is impressed with the fact that you're a proud homewrecker. It's gross.


I haven't wrecked anyones homes or marital relationships.


----------



## Rus47

Personal said:


> Steal?
> 
> The legal reality is humans aren't supposed to be someones property. Slavery is poor form, don't you know? Fortunately in civilised countries in the modern era, none of us actually own our spouses as property, and they don't own us as property either.
> 
> So there is nothing being stolen, not forgetting there is no theft of anything, especially that which is being freely and enthusiastically given.


Talking about a cheater. Looking for opportunity. Like a thief looking for something to steal.


----------



## Jimi007

Amplifi said:


> Have you actually convinced yourself of this hilarious non-logic, or are you here merely for entertainment purposes? Nobody is impressed with the fact that you're a proud homewrecker. It's gross.


Sorry I don't get that from Personal at all. He's simply saying that the woman put it out there and he took it to the bank.. She freely gave weather he knew she was married or not. Now if he knew...Thats another issue and I understand your comment


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I haven't wrecked anyones homes or marital relationships.


Did you sleep with married women whose husbands didn't consent to you inserting your body parts into their wives?


----------



## Amplifi

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry I don't get that from Personal at all. He's simply saying that the woman put it out there and he took it to the bank.. She freely gave weather he knew she was married or not. Now if he knew...Thats another issue and I understand your comment


Then you need to read his posts again.


----------



## Jimi007

Amplifi said:


> Then you need to read his posts again.


I will re read


----------



## Personal

Rus47 said:


> Talking about a cheater. Looking for opportunity. Like a thief looking for something to steal.


I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners. Cheaters are the ones who are giving it away.

Of which in my experience, the first instance was with a woman who I didn't know was married in the first place, who I ended that romantic relationship with once I found out (I was told by one of the soldiers from her unit). Yet I am not sorry about what I shared with her, she was older, married and it was lust/love at first sight while we were on course together.

In the second instance, it was in a nightclub and I shared sex with her on the premises, not long afterwards while still drinking with her and her mate I found out she was married. I never saw her again, I am not a mind reader, again not responsible and again no regrets.

Then on the third instance she was a dear friend, and her husband had just been arrested and taken away again after bashing her etc. I was called by a mutual friend to come over even though I hadn't seen her for about a year. She wanted to share sex to get him back for all of the various things he had done to her, I obliged in one instance knowing I was being used. She then legally separated from him and got a divorce. We are still friends and she is now married to a terrific man and has been for more than two decades now. Again not responsible for her infidelity and again most certainly not sorry.

Cheers.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners. Cheaters are the ones who are giving it away.
> 
> Of which in my experience, the first instance was with a woman who I didn't know was married in the first place, who I ended that romantic relationship with once I found out (I was told by one of the soldiers from her unit). Yet I am not sorry about what I shared with her, she was older, married and it was lust/love at first sight while we were on course together.
> 
> In the second instance, it was in a nightclub and I shared sex with her on the premises, not long afterwards while still drinking with her and her mate I found out she was married. I never saw her again, I am not a mind reader, again not responsible and again no regrets.
> 
> Then on the third instance she was a dear friend, and her husband had just been arrested and taken away again after bashing her etc. I was called by a mutual friend to come over even though I hadn't seen her for about a year. She wanted to share sex to get him back for all of the various things he had done to her, I obliged in one instance knowing I was being used. She then legally separated from him and got a divorce. We are still friends and she is now married to a terrific man and has been for more than two decades now. Again not responsible for her infidelity and again most certainly not sorry.
> 
> Cheers.


Not sorry, but rather full of braggadocio under the guise of playing Devil's Advocate. You know that's obvious, right?


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Did you sleep with married women whose husbands didn't consent to you inserting your body parts into their wives?


I only slept with one, there was no sleep involved with the others.

That said, Wives can choose to have sex with whoever they like, since legally they can refuse to share sex with whoever they like or consent to share sex with whoever they like as long as they are also adult and consenting.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I only slept with one, there was no sleep involved with the others.
> 
> That said, Wives can choose to have sex with whoever they like, since legally they can refuse to share sex with whoever they like or consent to share sex with whoever they like as long as they are also adult and consenting.


Anyone can choose to do anything. Thanks for at least being somewhat honest in this response.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Care to answer the question?


I answered you. Sleeping only happened with one of them, since I only stayed overnight in one instance.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Anyone can choose to do anything.


So you agree with me then? Since at the end of the day it is all about choice. So the responsibility for marital betrayal rests upon the person choosing to betray the person they made a promise to.

Of which I hope @Tbumgarner12 appreciates the fact that his wife is entirely responsible for her cheating on him by her choice.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I answered you. Sleeping only happened with one of them, since I only stayed overnight in one instance.


It must be exhausting trying to sleep under that bridge.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> So you agree with me then? Since at the end of the day it is all about choice. So the responsibility for marital betrayal rests upon the person choosing to betray the person they made a promise to.
> 
> Of which I hope @Tbumgarner12 appreciates the fact that his wife is entirely responsible for her cheating on him by her choice.


Nobody has claimed the cheating spouse is not responsible - how did you deduce that?

You being a low-character person who played a significant role in intentionally causing someone extreme distress and emotional pain, and a cheater being responsible for their own actions, are not mutually exclusive. Are you really this obtuse?


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> You being a low-character person who played a significant role in* intentionally causing someone extreme distress and emotional pain*, and a cheater being responsible for their own actions, are not mutually exclusive. Are you really this obtuse?


I did no such thing.

Yet here you are making false claims without any foundation.

That said instead of jumping to wild ass conclusions and making stuff up about me, perhaps you might try reading with glasses on.

Good luck.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> I did no such thing.
> 
> Yet here you are making false claims without any foundation.
> 
> That said instead of jumping to wild ass conclusions and making stuff up about me, perhaps you might try reading with glasses on.
> 
> Good luck.


Did you have intercourse with married women whose husbands didn't consent to you inserting your body parts into their wives?


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Nobody has claimed the cheating spouse is not responsible - how did you deduce that?


No, yet plenty are trying to lay the blame on those who have no responsibly at all, to be obliged to respect other peoples marriages, when one or more of those marriage participants has no respect for their own marriages.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Personal said:


> I was cheated on by my ex-wife, which is why she is now my ex-wife. That said I do not ascribe any blame on my ex-wife's infidelity on the other man. Since he made no promise of fidelity to me, unlike my ex-wife who is entirely responsible for her sexual infidelity.
> 
> That said if you are looking to cope with infidelity, my advice is to divorce cheaters, since their behaviour should sensibly, see them forfeit their opportunity to remain with the person they cheated on.
> 
> Of which in my experience, I found dumping my ex-wife a splendid way of coping with infidelity and moving on with my life.
> 
> Also it is worth understanding that, one would do well to blame the actual cheater. Since they are the person responsible for their betrayal. Since seriously, people don't cheat on their spouses by accident.


Divorcing the ex is a given. It would not be the sex with wife that I had issue with, it would be the APs disrespect to me, if he knew she was married, by having sex with wife. That would be why I would be prone to take him for a ride to the mountains. Don't tolerate rude behavior in a man. Sleeping with a man's wife is rude behavior.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> No, yet plenty are trying to lay the blame on those who have no responsibly at all, to be obliged to respect other peoples marriages, when one or more of those marriage participants has no respect for their own marriages.


You’re not obliged to do anything, really. What’s funny yet disturbing is that while engaged in braggadocio, you at the same time try to come off as not responsible for the very actions you’re bragging about. I can’t tell if you actually believe your own tripe or if this is a bit.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> Did you have intercourse with married women whose husbands didn't consent to you inserting your body parts into their wives?


Yes I have had intercourse with an enormous number of women whose husbands, I presume have not consented to me inserting my body parts into their wives. In the same way I've also had intercourse with an even greater number of men both married, single and divorced. Not forgetting that I have had intercourse with plenty of other women who are single or divorced through my lifetime as well.

Plus I have also shared intercourse with groups as well, some small and some larger. Although when I have been sharing intercourse with larger groups, I have tended to intercourse with key stakeholders and decision makers.

Just like you have also had intercourse with many other single/divorced/marrried men and women as well, unless you're a hermit, then it is possible you have hardly shared intercourse with anyone.


----------



## Amplifi

Personal said:


> Yes I have had intercourse with an enormous number of women whose husbands, I presume have not consented to me inserting my body parts into their wives. In the same way I've also had intercourse with an even greater number of men both married, single and divorced. Not forgetting that I have had intercourse with plenty of other women who are single or divorced through my lifetime as well.
> 
> Just like you have also had intercourse with many other single/divorced/marrried men and women as well, unless you're a hermit, then it is possible you have hardly shared intercourse with anyone.


This, which was preceded by “I did no such thing”. Lol. We’re lucky to have you here, brother.


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> You’re not obliged to do anything, really.


Oh and since you're asking so much. Since we're sharing some intercourse. I ought to ask questions ask well.

So have you ever gone out to a pub, nightclub, gone dancing, gone to a party and picked up (as in got with another woman you just met)?

Ever been lied to, by a woman about her relationship status?

Ever started dating someone, only to find out they already had a boyfriend or even a husband?


----------



## Personal

Amplifi said:


> This, which was preceded by “I did no such thing”. Lol. We’re lucky to have you here, brother.


You ask about sleeping then ask about intercourse. Are you a grown up? "let's talk about sex baby, let's talk about you and me."

If you want to ask about sex, then ask about sex using the actual words for it.

That said why thread jack? I've answered your questions if you want to carry on start a new topic.

And did no such thing, refers to the bolded which was intending harm.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Note:- *Please folks! No threadjacks!


----------



## Woundidwife

Personal said:


> I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners. Cheaters are the ones who are giving it away.
> 
> Of which in my experience, the first instance was with a woman who I didn't know was married in the first place, who I ended that romantic relationship with once I found out (I was told by one of the soldiers from her unit). Yet I am not sorry about what I shared with her, she was older, married and it was lust/love at first sight while we were on course together.
> 
> In the second instance, it was in a nightclub and I shared sex with her on the premises, not long afterwards while still drinking with her and her mate I found out she was married. I never saw her again, I am not a mind reader, again not responsible and again no regrets.
> 
> Then on the third instance she was a dear friend, and her husband had just been arrested and taken away again after bashing her etc. I was called by a mutual friend to come over even though I hadn't seen her for about a year. She wanted to share sex to get him back for all of the various things he had done to her, I obliged in one instance knowing I was being used. She then legally separated from him and got a divorce. We are still friends and she is now married to a terrific man and has been for more than two decades now. Again not responsible for her infidelity and again most certainly not sorry.
> 
> Cheers.


You, sir, are a despicable. In both of the first two instances, you very likely DID INDEED destroy two marriages. Keep congratulating yourself—you seem to get off on it. Also, on behalf of all Betrayeds, THANKS FOR NOT EVEN LOOKING for wedding rings. 😡🤬. It is people like you who make the world a sh*ttier place. What are you even doing on this website, besides rubbing in your disgusting behavior and hurting already crushed people?!


----------



## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12,
How are you doing? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you eating? Can the folks on this thread help you in any way? (I know I was the original thread-jacker, and I didn’t even know what that was at the time. I deeply apologize.) 

You need help and guidance as much as anyone else. I hope there are some ONS survivors who can help you (and me on my thread, too). Our D-days may have been at very similar times, so I feel like we are in the trenches together. What I have learned from a lot of reading here is that this is still pretty early to be making permanent decisions. You and I haven’t even returned to the “clear thinking” stage yet. I know with children at home, (this is not my case) the situation becomes murkier and from what I have seen, most betrayeds stay with their wayward spouses until the children are grown…and that it doesn’t always lead to a happy ending after that however. 

Like you, we were married VERY YOUNG, and like you, I thought my WH was my best friend and that we had a (mostly) wonderful marriage. Like you, we were very sexually active and really enjoyed each other. I was in it for the long haul—no matter what: for better and worse, etc. This IS THE WORST, and also the only reason in the bible that divorce is permissible. I am still up in the air on my decision, because it is way too soon for me to even know what I want. If pressed for a decision right now, it would have to be D. The only promise I have made is to TRY to give my WH a second chance. It is the best that my shredded heart can do at this point.

What is your current situation with your WW?

I am still praying for you! ❤🙏🏻


----------



## Divinely Favored

*


----------



## blackclover3

@*Tbumgarner12

any update?*


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> You, sir, are a despicable. In both of the first two instances, you very likely DID INDEED destroy two marriages. Keep congratulating yourself—you seem to get off on it. Also, on behalf of all Betrayeds, THANKS FOR NOT EVEN LOOKING for wedding rings. 😡🤬. It is people like you who make the world a sh*ttier place. What are you even doing on this website, besides rubbing in your disgusting behavior and hurting already crushed people?!


most BS’s understand or even agree with your sentiment above.

afterall if everyone respected other people’s marriage and kept their mitts off of other people’s spouses, there would be no such thing as a adultery in the world.

So yes, AP’s do share accountability in the state of affairs in regards to adultery (pun intended). 

however, do you want this site to be a shrine for the virtuous and an echo chamber for the BS like the Chump Lady website where only the BS’s can tell each other how great they are and how evil the WS is - or do you want a place where people of diverse perspectives from all ends of the spectrum can share real world information, wisdom and experience so people can understand the realities of how the real world actually operates.

In the long run what is going to help people more, Being patted on the back and told, “there there, you are great and that person was bad.”?

Or will people benefit more from understanding how all the mechanisms fit into place to better understand how the affair machine actually operates so they can be better informed going forward?

As a forum and a community, we can either tell comforting lies or uncomfortable truths. 

Which would you prefer? 

IMHO we may not ‘want’to hear the perspective and thoughts and experiences of the AP or WS - but I believe we NEED to hear if we want to be knowledgeable and make actual informed decisions on how we conduct our business.

people may hate the AP and I have gotten a good share of hate here as well, but do you want to just cast stones and pretend that we do not exist. - or are you better served to know how AP’s operate and know how and why they do what they do so you can best avoid them and deal with them when they do appear?

like a bear in the woods, they do exist and then can pose a danger.
But there are also lots of things that can be done to lessen and mitigate the risks and ways to deal with them if you encounter them and they pose a threat.


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> most BS’s understand or even agree with your sentiment above.
> 
> afterall if everyone respected other people’s marriage and kept their mitts off of other people’s spouses, there would be no such thing as a adultery in the world.
> 
> So yes, AP’s do share accountability in the state of affairs in regards to adultery (pun intended).
> 
> however, do you want this site to be a shrine for the virtuous and an echo chamber for the BS like the Chump Lady website where only the BS’s can tell each other how great they are and how evil the WS is - or do you want a place where people of diverse perspectives from all ends of the spectrum can share real world information, wisdom and experience so people can understand the realities of how the real world actually operates.
> 
> In the long run what is going to help people more, Being patted on the back and told, “there there, you are great and that person was bad.”?
> 
> Or will people benefit more from understanding how all the mechanisms fit into place to better understand how the affair machine actually operates so they can be better informed going forward?
> 
> As a forum and a community, we can either tell comforting lies or uncomfortable truths.
> 
> Which would you prefer?
> 
> IMHO we may not ‘want’to hear the perspective and thoughts and experiences of the AP or WS - but I believe we NEED to hear if we want to be knowledgeable and make actual informed decisions on how we conduct our business.
> 
> people may hate the AP and I have gotten a good share of hate here as well, but do you want to just cast stones and pretend that we do not exist. - or are you better served to know how AP’s operate and know how and why they do what they do so you can best avoid them and deal with them when they do appear?
> 
> like a bear in the woods, they do exist and then can pose a danger.
> But there are also lots of things that can be done to lessen and mitigate the risks and ways to deal with them if you encounter them and they pose a threat.


I think you are wrong about the content at Chumplady. Some interesting perspectives there.
As to understanding the mindset of cheaters, both AP and WS, I, seriously, doubt there is much of a mystery there.
I have no problem hearing from them, although I have never gained any meaningful insight other than reinforcing that they are self centered with little integrity. Not terribly complicated. They do not stick to their vows, have limited self control, and lack concern for other people.


----------



## Megaforce

Personal said:


> No, yet plenty are trying to lay the blame on those who have no responsibly at all, to be obliged to respect other peoples marriages, when one or more of those marriage participants has no respect for their own marriages.


This is a poor analysis. Using this rationale, one could commit myriad wrongs simply because he or she had no explicit agreement with an aggrieved party. If my spouse does not like my golf clubs, are you free to take them? If I drop my wallet are you free to pocket it?
Is my spouse free to give you my paycheck if she is not satisfied with what I earn? And on and on.
It is disheartening that there are folks among us who feel no moralmduty to treat others as they themselves would like to be treated. These folks are sociopaths and there are more among us than we are led to believe.


----------



## Megaforce

Divinely Favored said:


> You are triggered by your own situation and are out of line here, the 1st two were all on the wives. He had no idea they were married, I'm sure the rings had been removed or he would have known sooner and when he found out he did not speak to them again.
> 
> The 3rd he was her act of revenge on her incarcerated hubby.


So, the third was with specific knowledge? What is your rationale for excusing it? What on earth does the wife's s mindset or the husband's s imprisonment have to do with justification?


----------



## Megaforce

Personal said:


> Steal?
> 
> The legal reality is humans aren't supposed to be someones property. Slavery is poor form, don't you know? Fortunately in civilised countries in the modern era, none of us actually own our spouses as property, and they don't own us as property either.
> 
> So there is nothing being stolen, not forgetting there is no theft of anything, especially that which is being freely and enthusiastically given.


Of course there is something being stolen, the BS' s time and opportunity for informed self determination. This is so obvious it is a bit mind boggling that it is not apparent to some.


----------



## Personal

Megaforce said:


> This is a poor analysis. Using this rationale, one could commit myriad wrongs simply because he or she had no explicit agreement with an aggrieved party. If my spouse does not like my golf clubs, are you free to take them? If I drop my wallet are you free to pocket it?
> Is my spouse free to give you my paycheck if she is not satisfied with what I earn? And on and on.
> It is disheartening that there are folks among us who feel no moralmduty to treat others as they themselves would like to be treated. These folks are sociopaths and there are more among us than we are led to believe.


Yawn.

Your paycheque belongs to you, so it’s not hers to give. Likewise your golf clubs belong to you, so that’s also not hers to give.

And regarding your wallet, for the pedestrians out there, that also belongs to you. So if I ever find your wallet I will endeavour to get it back to you.

On the other hand, if your wife wants to give me her paycheque. I will consider her offer and if it will warm my cockles, I may oblige her generosity.

Likewise if your wife offers her own golf clubs and insists I take them, being magnanimous I might also oblige her.

As to your wife, losing her wallet. Again if I happen to find it, I will endeavour to get it back to her.

That said, in the modern era, at least in the civilised world, spouse’s still aren’t property.

Do try to keep up.


----------



## oldshirt

Megaforce said:


> I think you are wrong about the content at Chumplady. Some interesting perspectives there.


Interesting perspectives as long as you are attacking the WS and AP.

try to go on to that site and point out that the BS hadn’t touched the WS in 5 years and that they had try to work things out for years before they met the AP.

not only will you be attacked but good chance your post will be removed.

now don’t get me wrong, I like Chump Lady and think she has done a lot to advocate for BS’s and think that much of what they support and promote is often the best course of action in the long run.

but if someone doesn’t drink their brand of Kool Aid and follow their company line, they are a no-go and not only will be attacked but may even be removed and blocked.


----------



## Personal

Dictum Veritas said:


> There's no playing this off!



I'm sorry you're getting your knickers in a knot, over the fact that spouses are actually entirely responsible for their own marital fidelity.

So instead of crying me a river about it, 'cause boring. I encourage you to get a grip of yourself, by putting on your big boy pants. So you can get on with taking responsibility for your own sexual/marital fidelity. Instead of trying to pass off your own marital fidelity or otherwise, as something that is the responsibility of those not married to you.

🍻


----------



## Personal

QuietRiot said:


> Responsibility, accountability, integrity. None of these things is present in a person participating in an affair.


There would be no such thing as marital affairs, if married people didn't cheat on their spouses. Do you see how easy that is.

Having said that, I don't know about you, but I have never cheated on my wife, and I don't cheat on her, because I choose not to.

On the other hand if I do cheat on my wife, it will be as a consequence of my choosing to cheat on her, which is something that I would be entirely responsible for.

Whereas if I don't ever cheat on her and my wife never cheats on me, marital infidelity will not visit my marriage. At the end of the day, it shouldn't require someone to be a rocket surgeon to Grok this.

So like some others, who for some reason out of nowhere have dredged up a dead thread from the past, I encourage you to think further.

Good luck.


----------



## QuietRiot

Personal said:


> There would be no such thing as marital affairs, if married people didn't cheat on their spouses. Do you see how easy that is.
> 
> Having said that, I don't know about you, but I have never cheated on my wife, and I don't cheat on her, because I choose not to.
> 
> On the other hand if I do cheat on my wife, it will be as a consequence of my choosing to cheat on her, which is something that I would be entirely responsible for.
> 
> Whereas if I don't ever cheat on her and my wife never cheats on me, marital infidelity will not visit my marriage. At the end of the day, it's shouldn't require someone to be a rocket surgeon to Grok this.
> 
> So like some others, who for some reason out of nowhere have dredged up a dead thread from the past, I encourage you to think further.
> 
> Good luck.



I have no problem understanding that you think all AP’s are innocent of any wrong doing. You do not need to insult and belittle me or tell me how to think further on any of this. Have I insulted your intellect because your opinion is different? 

I am completely justified in knowing that AP’s are wrong and their actions are ALSO insidious. Just because they don’t force a person to do the cheating, does not mean they are innocent. They are an accomplice and co-conspirator. 

You are disrespectful and not worth more of my time.


----------



## Personal

Jimi007 said:


> That's a choice , not a mistake.


Of course it isn't a mistake.

At the end of the day, people who cheat on their spouses don't ever cheat by accident.


----------



## Personal

QuietRiot said:


> and not worth more of my time.


Thanks it's getting a bit tiresome, having to repeatedly state the obvious.


----------



## ConanHub

How are you doing @Tbumgarner12 ?


----------



## EleGirl

I've deleted a very long thread jack. If you post on this thread, please post directly to the OP providing him support.

Also, advocating for violence is a ban-able offence... permanent ban. Just a reminder.


----------



## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12, how are you doing?

I know this website has a lot of users who are bitter, who are simply raining on everyone else’s parades, but there ARE some positive people on here who truly do want so support you. I hope you are doing well and check in from time to time. Ignore the negative stuff. I have had to learn to do the same.

I have a POSITIVE suggestion for you and also for all of the negative users on here: Try taking the “love languages” quiz. It is free, online. There is a free app called Love Nudge that is based on them and can be very helpful. If you each know your partner better, it can really help to improve communication. Just a thought.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

I’d like to thank everyone for encouragement and experiences shared. As of now I’m working on my marriage but with no solid outcome. My wife is doing everything possible to make things right and keep things moving in the right direction. I’m having a more difficult time deciding what to do. Understanding true forgiveness is what I’m working on and trying to grasp. This experience has been eye opening and put me at a cross roads of what to do. I’ve contemplated my pride and values. One value I’m having a hard time with is “respect”. My values will be compromised if I decide to work this out. So I guess I need to sort all that out first. My wife is seeking individual counseling and marriage counseling will begin in a few weeks. Thanks again


----------



## Casual Observer

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’d like to thank everyone for encouragement and experiences shared. As of now I’m working on my marriage but with no solid outcome. My wife is doing everything possible to make things right and keep things moving in the right direction. I’m having a more difficult time deciding what to do. Understanding true forgiveness is what I’m working on and trying to grasp. This experience has been eye opening and put me at a cross roads of what to do. I’ve contemplated my pride and values. One value I’m having a hard time with is “respect”. My values will be compromised if I decide to work this out. So I guess I need to sort all that out first. My wife is seeking individual counseling and marriage counseling will begin in a few weeks. Thanks again


Is she willing to stop drinking? If not, how can you ever trust her? She blamed drinking for at least assisting in the adultery.


----------



## Tbumgarner12

Casual Observer said:


> Is she willing to stop drinking? If not, how can you ever trust her? She blamed drinking for at least assisting in the adultery.


She only drinks 1-2 around me. She takes full responsibility and doesn’t blame her drinking that night. She knows (little to late) every decision she made was completely on her.


----------



## ConanHub

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’d like to thank everyone for encouragement and experiences shared. As of now I’m working on my marriage but with no solid outcome. My wife is doing everything possible to make things right and keep things moving in the right direction. I’m having a more difficult time deciding what to do. Understanding true forgiveness is what I’m working on and trying to grasp. This experience has been eye opening and put me at a cross roads of what to do. I’ve contemplated my pride and values. One value I’m having a hard time with is “respect”. My values will be compromised if I decide to work this out. So I guess I need to sort all that out first. My wife is seeking individual counseling and marriage counseling will begin in a few weeks. Thanks again


Thanks for the update. Here's hoping you get through this intact and healthy. I'm hoping health for your wife as well.


----------



## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’d like to thank everyone for encouragement and experiences shared. As of now I’m working on my marriage but with no solid outcome. My wife is doing everything possible to make things right and keep things moving in the right direction. I’m having a more difficult time deciding what to do. Understanding true forgiveness is what I’m working on and trying to grasp. This experience has been eye opening and put me at a cross roads of what to do. I’ve contemplated my pride and values. One value I’m having a hard time with is “respect”. My values will be compromised if I decide to work this out. So I guess I need to sort all that out first. My wife is seeking individual counseling and marriage counseling will begin in a few weeks. Thanks again


I would agree. Self-respect and dignity feel very compromised if reconciliation is the chosen path. Still struggling with that myself.


----------



## blackclover3

@Tbumgarner12 man has dignity to protect. if you lose that to an affair partner then there is nothing left. 
she was fully aware and functional when she cheated - she tried it and loved it and now wants to go back to her normal self. 
she exchanged bodily fluid with another guy 

I cant understand why people forgive in these situation - it is not like she is the only woman left on earth. I'm sure, more than most of married women on the street will not cheat on their husbands. 

now you are still in shock, when you forgive and life goes back to normal all these images will come back to hunt you and become more painful. 

you have the right to try someone else as well - leave her and find someone else and if doesnt work then you get back to her


----------



## ArthurGPym

You can forgive her and still divorce her.


----------



## gr8ful1

Although many seem to poo-poo this idea, I would definitely explore demoting her to girlfriend by way of divorce. She needs a real consequence for her brazen betrayal. This is not revenge, but instead critical to keeping your self respect and also, in my opinion, helpful to her so she can truly feel some natural consequences of her piss-poor choices, so that she won’t choose that way ever again. Tell her if she doesn’t fight you in the divorce and gives favorable terms you will consider dating her as girlfriend moving forward.


----------



## ArthurGPym

gr8ful1 said:


> Although many seem to poo-poo this idea, I would definitely explore demoting her to girlfriend by way of divorce. She needs a real consequence for her brazen betrayal. This is not revenge, but instead critical to keeping your self respect and also, in my opinion, helpful to her so she can truly feel some natural consequences of her piss-poor choices, so that she won’t choose that way ever again. Tell her if she doesn’t fight you in the divorce and gives favorable terms you will consider dating her as girlfriend moving forward.


A cogent idea. She can be relegated to competing with other women for his affection.


----------



## DosEquis

Tbumgarner12 said:


> I’d like to thank everyone for encouragement and experiences shared. As of now I’m working on my marriage but with no solid outcome. My wife is doing everything possible to make things right and keep things moving in the right direction. I’m having a more difficult time deciding what to do. Understanding true forgiveness is what I’m working on and trying to grasp. This experience has been eye opening and put me at a cross roads of what to do. I’ve contemplated my pride and values. One value I’m having a hard time with is “respect”. My values will be compromised if I decide to work this out. So I guess I need to sort all that out first. My wife is seeking individual counseling and marriage counseling will begin in a few weeks. Thanks again


Hey Tbumgarner12. Pages back, I encouraged you to count the cost. That whatever route you chose would include pain (the fabled "shyte" sandwich) and would cost you. 

My experience was to try and R and it cost me a decade of trying, piling pain upon pain. There are others who've been able to R after brief betrayals, but I havent found or talked to many.

Youve touched on a hot button for you and that is respect, or, more accurately, a complete lack thereof. Betrayeds ALL agree that the disrespect is absolutely massive and is the ignitor of much of the fiery rage we felt when the betrayal is exposed. Regardless of frequency (ONS or not), the disrespect alone is a marriage killer for many. Full stop.

This brings me to the next question to ponder which is, how much disrespect can you tolerate? You may not know right now and thats ok, but its a question you'll have to answer and are already wrestling with. Some people can deal with it to try and R if the CS is remoresful, others cannot regardless of their CSs attitude.

The fallout from that disrespect is resentment. I cannot tell you whether trying to wrestle this beast to the ground will be worth it for you. I can tell you that after a decade of trying, it definitely was *not* worth it for me. I told myself all of the stuff that others have discussed ad infinitum, i.e. "Ill regret it if I dont", "I need to try for the kids", "The love will surely return," etc, etc, etc. What happened was resentment kept coming back into my soul no matter how many times I tried to excise it. Like a cancer, it ate at me. I now look back and believe I should have begun the divorce process within weeks. I would have had that decade back to heal and start over. It'd have spared me a LOT of wear and tear.....but, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.

As you weigh it all out, know there is no right or wrong way to deal with this shyte.....only whats best for *you*.

Strength and clarity to you as you weigh this all out for you.


----------



## Casual Observer

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She only drinks 1-2 *around me. *She takes full responsibility and doesn’t blame her drinking that night. She knows (little to late) every decision she made was completely on her.


Emphasis added by me. This is all about weak or non-existent boundaries and alcohol is a dis-inhibitor. It’s not about blaming alcohol for the ONS; it’s about being willing to do something that you KNOW can get you in trouble. The responsibility is 100% hers for drinking. It’s probably part of a need to escape and continuing to drink sends a message that she’s not yet ready to take responsibility for her actions, ONS or otherwise.


----------



## bygone

something I often write here your wife knows you!! 
knows your reactions 
she knows how to control you
she knows how to use your weaknesses and fears
what surprises her is that you are receiving support here and taking new approaches that she did not expect.
don't decide early for mc 
your wife should give you a timeline of what happened that night and take a polygraph., 
How many times has your wife cheated on you? 
the polygraph shows its seriousness


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> You can forgive her and still divorce her.


I disagree.

If you divorce her, it clearly (strongly) shows that you did not forgive her.

Following through on a divorce is punishing her for her transgression.

.........................................................................

forgive

fər-gĭv′, fôr-
*intransitive verb*

To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault; pardon.
To relent in being angry or in wishing to exact punishment for (an offense or fault).
To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).


----------



## ElOtro

ArthurGPym said:


> You can forgive her and still divorce her.


Agree.



SunCMars said:


> I disagree.
> If you divorce her, it clearly (strongly) shows that you did not forgive her.
> Following through on a divorce is punishing her for her transgression.


I dissagre

You may see it as a "transgression" (sin / fault).
And consequently divorce as punishment.
I don´t.
IMO and from the meaning maker frame of a choosed monogamy partnership, infidelity breaks the team.
So divorce makes formal what is already factual.

You can wish well to your ex (as a human being) includding a long happy life with no other further consequences than the ones she / he in fact choosed even if not wished (the end of the relationship).
While no more accepting he / she as a partner suitable for the kind of relationship some of us would get in / stay.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In the case of a cheating spouse, wouldn't divorce be saving yourself? Not punishment, self preservation.


----------



## SunCMars

TexasMom1216 said:


> In the case of a cheating spouse, wouldn't divorce be saving yourself? Not punishment, self preservation.


OK, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

Namely, punish the cheater by divorcing, and saving yourself by starting a new life, leaving the cheater, and those painful reminders, in the past.


----------



## jlg07

You can forgive and still not FORGET -- so divorce could be done while forgiving, but since you won't ever forget what she did and can't get past that lack of trust, not be a punitive thing as the primary reason.


----------



## TexasMom1216

jlg07 said:


> You can forgive and still not FORGET -- so divorce could be done while forgiving, but since you won't ever forget what she did and can't get past that lack of trust, not be a punitive thing as the primary reason.


Well and wouldn’t staying in the marriage be rewarding that behavior?


----------



## ElOtro

SunCMars said:


> Namely, punish the cheater by divorcing


Let´s consider it in another possible way.
The cheater factually choosed between one of two options that can´t coexist.
As one of those options involves exclusivity, that one was the discarded by the infidelity.
Besides the cheater´s unilateral "wishes" of keeping both (and / or their options to remain open), the discarded path, the one "not taken" had less comparative value for them, thus the trade.
Depriving them from what they discard is not IMO the hardest punishment if at all.
Just saving the cheated one from the sad punishment of being the 2nd. fiddle.

No analogy is ever good enough.
Even so...
There might be some peculiar conditions that may keep a kidnaper free from jail.
But no one that excuse to rescue the kidnaped one.


----------



## Woundidwife

Either way,
Tbumgarner12, I hope you getting some time to yourself to think. (I know in my situation, the spouse being ever present has hindered my ability to regain control of my own life. I am just now beginning to be able to function mostly normally at work—2 months out from my D-day.)


----------



## Tdbo

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well and wouldn’t staying in the marriage be rewarding that behavior?


It would depend on what the terms and minutia involved in the continuation of the marriage indicated.


----------



## ElOtro

Tdbo said:


> It would depend on what the terms and minutia involved in the continuation of the marriage indicated.


True for some.
Not for everyone regardless the "minutia".
Not for me, just in case.


----------



## Tdbo

ElOtro said:


> True for some.
> Not for everyone regardless the "minutia".
> Not for me, just in case.


Everyone knows what they need.
They know their own situation better and what works for them.
I know what I would do.
However, not my circus, not my monkeys............................


----------



## ElOtro

Tdbo said:


> Everyone knows what they need.
> They know their own situation better and what works for them.
> I know what I would do.
> However, not my circus, not my monkeys............................


Right.
What IMO also means that it may "depend on what the terms and minutia involved in the continuation of the marriage" if and only if (for that someones) "the continuation of the marriage" is desirable in any imaginable "terms" given the conditions stablished by the infidelity.


----------



## ConanHub

SunCMars said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you divorce her, it clearly (strongly) shows that you did not forgive her.
> 
> Following through on a divorce is punishing her for her transgression.
> 
> .........................................................................
> 
> forgive
> 
> fər-gĭv′, fôr-
> *intransitive verb*
> 
> To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault; pardon.
> To relent in being angry or in wishing to exact punishment for (an offense or fault).
> To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).


Could he forgive her and still give her a spankin?


----------



## jlg07

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well and wouldn’t staying in the marriage be rewarding that behavior?


IMO, not necessarily -- each situation and marriage are different because the people are different.
I DO think there are folks who have cheated, esp ONS, who made a REALLY bad set of decisions and are truly remorseful, but there seem to be plenty who are NOT also. Even given that, there are many BS who have that as a hard boundary and will NOT accept them back no matter how remorseful.
Infidelity is the gift that keeps giving, and often to more than just the recipient!


----------



## TexasMom1216

jlg07 said:


> IMO, not necessarily -- each situation and marriage are different because the people are different.
> I DO think there are folks who have cheated, esp ONS, who made a REALLY bad set of decisions and are truly remorseful, but there seem to be plenty who are NOT also.


We can agree to disagree. 😎 You're a far more trusting person than I am, I have real trouble trusting to begin with, after someone humiliated and devalued me like that I wouldn't want any more to do with them.


----------



## Diana7

ElOtro said:


> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> I dissagre
> 
> You may see it as a "transgression" (sin / fault).
> And consequently divorce as punishment.
> I don´t.
> IMO and from the meaning maker frame of a choosed monogamy partnership, infidelity breaks the team.
> So divorce makes formal what is already factual.
> 
> You can wish well to your ex and includding a long happy life (as a human being) with no further consequences than what she / he in fact choosed even if not wished (the end of the relationship).
> While no more accepting he / she as a partner suitable for the kind of relationship some of us would get in / stay.


Forgiveness and reconciliation never have to go together.


----------



## Diana7

jlg07 said:


> IMO, not necessarily -- each situation and marriage are different because the people are different.
> I DO think there are folks who have cheated, esp ONS, who made a REALLY bad set of decisions and are truly remorseful, but there seem to be plenty who are NOT also. Even given that, there are many BS who have that as a hard boundary and will NOT accept them back no matter how remorseful.
> Infidelity is the gift that keeps giving, and often to more than just the recipient!


Even if the cheater seems remorseful, that doesn't mean that they won't do it again at some point or won't lie again. They have shown they are capable of cheating and lying.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Even if the cheater* seems *remorseful, that doesn't mean that they won't do it again at some point or won't lie again. They have shown they are capable of cheating and lying.


That's a really important word. They will seem remorseful because they'll seem whatever they need to seem to get what they want. IMO nothing they ever say is true.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I don't see divorce as punishment. 

Let me float a hypothetical to you: Say that I'm a company CEO. If I hire a CFO and I put all my trust in the man to handle my company's money and three years down the line an auditor comes to me and tells me that the CFO is cooking the books. He has been skimming money off the company for over a year to the tune of $100,000. I don't want word to leak out and a scandal to ensue, so I call the CFO in to my office and show him the evidence. He falls to his knees and tells me he took the money and was hiding it away in a secret MM account. He promises me if I don't tell anyone or report him that he will call the bank and have the money put back in the company account. In exchange for not calling the police, I demand he sit down and draft an immediate written letter of resignation for "personal reasons". I wait as he also calls his bank and has the money wired to our account, and then I tell him to leave and never set foot on the property again. I have "divorced" him from the company and removed him from the threat of harming my company in the future. The only consequence he received was unemployment. True punishment could have been jail time, blacklisting, and public humiliation.


----------



## ABHale

SunCMars said:


> OK, but the two are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Namely, punish the cheater by divorcing, and saving yourself by starting a new life, leaving the cheater, and those painful reminders, in the past.


Why is divorcing a cheater a punishment for them? I would look at it as the fruit of their own labor and choices.


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## ABHale

There is one thing to remember here. OP’s wife confessed what she had done with no fear of him finding out from someone else. Her friend actually tried to talk her out of it.

She has shown by her actions that she is remorseful of her actions.


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## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well and wouldn’t staying in the marriage be rewarding that behavior?


not necessarily.

sometimes the BS fight tooth and nail to remain married and keep the WS in the house so they can torment them and make their life miserable.

sometimes remaining married is the punishment.


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## gr8ful1

oldshirt said:


> sometimes remaining married is the punishment


The way my MIL treats my FIL my wife and I both wonder if something happened earlier in their marriage and she’s been (truly) punishing him for many years.


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## Diana7

ABHale said:


> There is one thing to remember here. OP’s wife confessed what she had done with no fear of him finding out from someone else. Her friend actually tried to talk her out of it.
> 
> She has shown by her actions that she is remorseful of her actions.


It could be that the guilt later on made her confess. She wasn't sorry enough not to do it.


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## Cynthia

The idea that reconcilliation must accompany forgiveness is false and dangerous. Running away from danger isn't a punishment to the one whose actions are dangerous.

People can and do repent, but there will be a corresponding change in their behaviors and attitudes. Many marriages have overcome the blight of adultery and gone on to heal and become good again. This takes serious work, primarly on the part of the offending party.

@Tbumgarner12, Please don't work on trying to trust her. Restoring trust is her job, not yours. This is a mistake that I've seen other betrayed spouses make. Don't feel guilty for not trusting her. Now that there has been a discussion about forgiveness, I want to add that forgiveness doesn't require trust. You can forgive her and be wary of her at the same time. Let her work to rebuild what she has broken. Don't force it on yourself and don't try to speed up the process. That would be counterproductive for both of you and for your marriage.

Trust should only come when she has proven herself to be trustworthy. This will take years of no mistakes. You will find that you analyze whether she is being honest with you. If something doesn't match, don't set it aside. Talk to her about it and seek to know what's really happening. Liars lie. That is obvious, but keep this in mind as you watch her and learn whether or not you will be able to trust her again.

By agreeing to reconcile, that doesn't mean that you agree to go back to how things were before her betrayal. It means that you are giving her a chance to prove herself worthy of being married to you. When adultery happens, the offending party should be willing to not only stop the corrupt behavior, but to make amends. Making amends isn't a simply apology. It's about going out of her way to repay you, plus interest.


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## oldshirt

SunCMars said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you divorce her, it clearly (strongly) shows that you did not forgive her.
> 
> Following through on a divorce is punishing her for her transgression.
> 
> .........................................................................
> 
> forgive
> 
> fər-gĭv′, fôr-
> *intransitive verb*
> 
> To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault; pardon.
> To relent in being angry or in wishing to exact punishment for (an offense or fault).
> To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).


No.

divorce and reconciliation and forgiveness and marriage and punishment and reward etc are all independent concepts and constructs that may or may not have anything to do with each other.

one can remain married but not forgive.

one can divorce but not hold any grudge or resentment.

one can exert far greater punishment from within a marriage than outside of it if punishment were the intent.

and one can reward by letting go.


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## SunCMars

ABHale said:


> Why is divorcing a cheater a punishment for them? I would like at it as the fruit of their own labor and choices.


True, if she wants out.
Many do not.

The punishment comes,_ if and when,_ her new life after divorce, ends up worse than before.
She may do well, and be more happy.

Every divorce is different, of course.


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## oldshirt

SunCMars said:


> True, if she wants out.
> Many do not.
> 
> The punishment comes,_ if and when,_ her new life after divorce, ends up worse than before.
> She may do well, and be more happy.
> 
> Every divorce is different, of course.


That’s not punishment.

that is outcome.


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## SunCMars

oldshirt said:


> That’s not punishment.
> 
> that is outcome.


Huh?

You are speculating, putting thoughts in an some hypothetical woman's mind.

There are many cases on TAM, of waywards that do not want to divorce after cheating.

It is not always wise to _strongly _generalize!

And some, those _{yeah, buts}_ can end up being be paragraph fillers and desperate word-salads.

.........................................................................................

Outcomes _can be_ punishment, or neutral, or a reward.
It depends.

Saying divorce is NOT a punishment is generalizing and is sloppy logic..

God knows, some outcomes are mind and body crushing.
To say otherwise is _odd,_ I won't claim nonsense!



Just sayin'


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## ConanHub

I wanted my children to live so I didn't poison them or shoot them.

I wanted a pet cat as a child so I didn't drown my kitten in the bathtub.

I wanted my marriage to succeed so I didn't stick my Wang in the wrong Wawa.😉


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Cynthia said:


> The idea that reconcilliation must accompany forgiveness is false and dangerous. Running away from danger isn't a punishment to the one whose actions are dangerous.
> 
> People can and do repent, but there will be a corresponding change in their behaviors and attitudes. Many marriages have overcome the blight of adultery and gone on to heal and become good again. This takes serious work, primarly on the part of the offending party.
> 
> @Tbumgarner12, Please don't work on trying to trust her. Restoring trust is her job, not yours. This is a mistake that I've seen other betrayed spouses make. Don't feel guilty for not trusting her. Now that there has been a discussion about forgiveness, I want to add that forgiveness doesn't require trust. You can forgive her and be wary of her at the same time. Let her work to rebuild what she has broken. Don't force it on yourself and don't try to speed up the process. That would be counterproductive for both of you and for your marriage.
> 
> Trust should only come when she has proven herself to be trustworthy. This will take years of no mistakes. You will find that you analyze whether she is being honest with you. If something doesn't match, don't set it aside. Talk to her about it and seek to know what's really happening. Liars lie. That is obvious, but keep this in mind as you watch her and learn whether or not you will be able to trust her again.
> 
> By agreeing to reconcile, that doesn't mean that you agree to go back to how things were before her betrayal. It means that you are giving her a chance to prove herself worthy of being married to you. When adultery happens, the offending party should be willing to not only stop the corrupt behavior, but to make amends. Making amends isn't a simply apology. It's about going out of her way to repay you, plus interest.


Sir, this wise lady is spot on. The burden of proof as to whether she is reconciliation worthy is on her. When I agreed to attempt R, by no means did I trust my FWW. You seem to think you are in a 100yard dash, but you are in a marathon.

Proceed slowly and watch actions not just what she says. Left foot right foot breathe and repeat, You get in a hurry you are going to be in for a heap of hurt.


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## Tbumgarner12

DosEquis said:


> Hey Tbumgarner12. Pages back, I encouraged you to count the cost. That whatever route you chose would include pain (the fabled "shyte" sandwich) and would cost you.
> 
> My experience was to try and R and it cost me a decade of trying, piling pain upon pain. There are others who've been able to R after brief betrayals, but I havent found or talked to many.
> 
> Youve touched on a hot button for you and that is respect, or, more accurately, a complete lack thereof. Betrayeds ALL agree that the disrespect is absolutely massive and is the ignitor of much of the fiery rage we felt when the betrayal is exposed. Regardless of frequency (ONS or not), the disrespect alone is a marriage killer for many. Full stop.
> 
> This brings me to the next question to ponder which is, how much disrespect can you tolerate? You may not know right now and thats ok, but its a question you'll have to answer and are already wrestling with. Some people can deal with it to try and R if the CS is remoresful, others cannot regardless of their CSs attitude.
> 
> The fallout from that disrespect is resentment. I cannot tell you whether trying to wrestle this beast to the ground will be worth it for you. I can tell you that after a decade of trying, it definitely was *not* worth it for me. I told myself all of the stuff that others have discussed ad infinitum, i.e. "Ill regret it if I dont", "I need to try for the kids", "The love will surely return," etc, etc, etc. What happened was resentment kept coming back into my soul no matter how many times I tried to excise it. Like a cancer, it ate at me. I now look back and believe I should have begun the divorce process within weeks. I would have had that decade back to heal and start over. It'd have spared me a LOT of wear and tear.....but, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
> 
> As you weigh it all out, know there is no right or wrong way to deal with this shyte.....only whats best for *you*.
> 
> Strength and clarity to you as you weigh this all out for you.


Well said! Im going through this right now where the resentment keeps coming back, if this doesn’t go away then D might be the option to save my soul. Which I understand that I have to do what’s best for me.


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## blackclover3

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Well said! Im going through this right now where the resentment keeps coming back, if this doesn’t go away then D might be the option to save my soul. Which I understand that I have to do what’s best for me.


@Tbumgarner12 

Bud, a thug biggest turn on is to sleep with a married woman, I read in a post that the pleasure and reaching the big O is that person thinking about the husband while screwing the wife (the husband being a sucker and in pain and the thought of stealing something from someone is the turn on). in turn the married woman cheat because she is doing the taboo and she is reaching her big O because her husband doesnt know. 

think of that again, they both knew what they were doing, your wife knew what she is doing and took a pleasure of it. I bet you everything she didnt use protection and if she did ask him to use protect that she shows she fully understand what she is doing. 

their both taking a pleasure in disrespecting you

may be she feels guilty, but if she didnt feel guilty then she would've continued sleeping around and not because she loves you


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## Divinely Favored

SunCMars said:


> OK, but the two are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Namely, punish the cheater by divorcing, and saving yourself by starting a new life, leaving the cheater, and those painful reminders, in the past.


Punishment would be taking it out on her and rubbing it in her face the next 10-20 yrs. Or taking out a full page add in the paper that she is an adulterous harlot. Divorce is so you can't get past it by removing your presence from hers.


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## DosEquis

Tbumgarner12 said:


> Well said! Im going through this right now where the resentment keeps coming back, if this doesn’t go away then D might be the option to save my soul. Which I understand that I have to do what’s best for me.


Brother, the resentment was an acid that ate at me and would not stop and I tried everything I knew to do. It was relentless.


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## Tbumgarner12

Cynthia said:


> The idea that reconcilliation must accompany forgiveness is false and dangerous. Running away from danger isn't a punishment to the one whose actions are dangerous.
> 
> People can and do repent, but there will be a corresponding change in their behaviors and attitudes. Many marriages have overcome the blight of adultery and gone on to heal and become good again. This takes serious work, primarly on the part of the offending party.
> 
> @Tbumgarner12, Please don't work on trying to trust her. Restoring trust is her job, not yours. This is a mistake that I've seen other betrayed spouses make. Don't feel guilty for not trusting her. Now that there has been a discussion about forgiveness, I want to add that forgiveness doesn't require trust. You can forgive her and be wary of her at the same time. Let her work to rebuild what she has broken. Don't force it on yourself and don't try to speed up the process. That would be counterproductive for both of you and for your marriage.
> 
> Trust should only come when she has proven herself to be trustworthy. This will take years of no mistakes. You will find that you analyze whether she is being honest with you. If something doesn't match, don't set it aside. Talk to her about it and seek to know what's really happening. Liars lie. That is obvious, but keep this in mind as you watch her and learn whether or not you will be able to trust her again.
> 
> By agreeing to reconcile, that doesn't mean that you agree to go back to how things were before her betrayal. It means that you are giving her a chance to prove herself worthy of being married to you. When adultery happens, the offending party should be willing to not only stop the corrupt behavior, but to make amends. Making amends isn't a simply apology. It's about going out of her way to repay you, plus interest.


Well put! Thank you


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## QuietRiot

DosEquis said:


> Brother, the resentment was an acid that ate at me and would not stop and I tried everything I knew to do. It was relentless.


I think resentment is worse than hate. Resentment I think it’s the innate desire to balance the scales, to be given justice in the face of wrongs done and having no possible recourse to make that justice happen. It makes sense that you can’t resolve those feelings while with someone that did the injustice, if ever.


SunCMars said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If you divorce her, it clearly (strongly) shows that you did not forgive her.
> 
> Following through on a divorce is punishing her for her transgression.
> 
> .........................................................................
> 
> forgive
> 
> fər-gĭv′, fôr-
> *intransitive verb*
> 
> To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault; pardon.
> To relent in being angry or in wishing to exact punishment for (an offense or fault).
> To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).


There is a big difference in punishment and very reasonable boundaries. For example: Divorce creates a boundary; you can only have x amount of access to me and my life. Flogging is a punishment; I shall make you physically hurt. 

Forgiveness can take place in any situation, even without the knowledge or consent of the person who did the wrong. It is an internal decision not an outward action.


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## DosEquis

QuietRiot said:


> I think resentment is worse than hate. Resentment I think it’s the innate desire to balance the scales, to be given justice in the face of wrongs done and having no possible recourse to make that justice happen. It makes sense that you can’t resolve those feelings while with someone that did the injustice, if ever.
> 
> 
> There is a big difference in punishment and very reasonable boundaries. For example: Divorce creates a boundary; you can only have x amount of access to me and my life. Flogging is a punishment; I shall make you physically hurt.
> 
> Forgiveness can take place in any situation, even without the knowledge or consent of the person who did the wrong. It is an internal decision not an outward action.


In all fairness, after reading extensively and a lot of therapy, I admittedly bungled the attempted R. There are no shortcuts.

I will also say that I believe that the probability is high that, even had I done everything that is recommended, the R would still have been a no go and resentment would have overtaken me.....just the way I am wired.


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## QuietRiot

DosEquis said:


> In all fairness, after reading extensively and a lot of therapy, I admittedly bungled the attempted R. There are no shortcuts.
> 
> I will also say that I believe that the probability is high that, even had I done everything that is recommended, the R would still have been a no go and resentment would have overtaken me.....just the way I am wired.


Same. But that’s the problem with resentment, many times it cannot be resolved regardless. It ends marriages without infidelity, it makes sense that it would be difficult in an affair situation as well.


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## Woundidwife

Tbumgarner12,

How are you doing?


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## DosEquis

Hope you're ok Tbumgarner12


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## CraigBesuden

Tbumgarner12 said:


> She went on a girls trip and went to a bar drinking and they both went back to a guys house. She had been drinking and said her and another guy had been flirting and then he kissed her. They ended up going to the bedroom and having sex. She confessed this all to me about 2 weeks after it happened and said she just couldn’t live with herself. She said she didn’t know what came over her but after they had sex she regretted it and even told her friend she was going to tell me and the friend said that’s not a good idea because our friendship would be over.
> 
> it’s been about 3 weeks and … she is no longer hanging out with the friend…. boundaries have been set to never be in a situation like that again, etc.


A cynic would wonder if your wife’s friend told her that she’s going to tell you what your wife did. So your wife responded by telling you herself “out of guilt,” then cutting off the friend so you’ll never hear the true story.


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## Megaforce

CraigBesuden said:


> A cynic would wonder if your wife’s friend told her that she’s going to tell you what your wife did. So your wife responded by telling you herself “out of guilt,” then cutting off the friend so you’ll never hear the true story.


Friend or someone else who knows. It is very rare for a cheater to voluntarily confess.


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