# Men, what does high maintenance v's low maintenance mean?



## WellyVamp

I hear men talk about high maintenance or low maintenance women and wonder what this is all about. :scratchhead:

Obviously there is the issue of a woman spending a lot of money on her appearance, but it's 2013. So, women pay for this out of their own money these days. There is also the emotional aspect, but don't all women and men have their high maintenance moments? 

In many respects, high maintenance seems to mean alpha female, so is it a bad thing?

Equally, could being called low maintenance be a bit of a cuss, like being a nice guy? Is it shorthand for being dull, predictable, a bit of a doormat and plain?

Men always say that they want the low maintenance woman, but drool over the high maintenance ones. 

For example; most men I know, including Mr Vamp say to their partners that looks, weight and clothes don't matter. Nevertheless, they don't search out pictures of frumpy women online when they fancy shaking hot white coconuts from the veiny love tree.

Please help me to understand this aspect of the male psyche!


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## Suspecting

I think you're right it could mean an alpha female. Some men might see it as a threat if they want to be the alpha of the relationship themselves so they need to make an effort to try to keep that up. It could also mean a woman who needs a lot of pampering, a woman who has high standards etc.


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## WellyVamp

Suspecting said:


> I think you're right it could mean an alpha female. Some men might see it as a threat if they want to be the alpha of the relationship themselves so they need to make an effort to try to keep that up. It could also mean a woman who needs a lot of pampering, a woman who has high standards etc.


Thanks for answering. I hope I posted this in the right forum section! 

I've only heard the phrase high maintenance being used in a negative context, but it's only right that people should have standards isn't it? 

In this day and age, women don't expect men to pay for their pampering, so that shouldn't be an issue for men.


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## john_lord_b3

WellyVamp said:


> I hear men talk about high maintenance or low maintenance women and wonder what this is all about. :scratchhead:
> 
> Obviously there is the issue of a woman spending a lot of money on her appearance, but it's 2013. So, women pay for this out of their own money these days. There is also the emotional aspect, but don't all women and men have their high maintenance moments?
> 
> In many respects, high maintenance seems to mean alpha female, so is it a bad thing?
> 
> Equally, could being called low maintenance be a bit of a cuss, like being a nice guy? Is it shorthand for being dull, predictable, a bit of a doormat and plain?
> 
> Men always say that they want the low maintenance woman, but drool over the high maintenance ones.
> 
> For example; most men I know, including Mr Vamp say to their partners that looks, weight and clothes don't matter. Nevertheless, they don't search out pictures of frumpy women online when they fancy shaking hot white coconuts from the veiny love tree.
> 
> Please help me to understand this aspect of the male psyche!


High Maintenance Women.. that's an American term... I think I have seen a film where High Maintenance Women are being parodied, it's called "White Chicks" starring the Wayan Brothers.. 

White Chicks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are a few clips from the film..

White Chicks - The Best and Funniest Clips - YouTube


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## Deejo

I don't see high maintenance as a bad thing. I see it as a challenge. 
I generally think of high maintenance as spirited, or quirky.
A woman who wants what she wants, whether it is 100 pairs of shoes, a half caf, mocha latte, with simple sugar, soy milk and extra foam, or requires that you sit down each evening, talk, and share something about your day.

I don't have a problem with any of this ... as long as she loves me, and clearly understands that I want what I want ... and what she wants doesn't take precedence as a result.

And I will tell you unequivocally, looks, weight, and how she dresses does matter ... when it comes to attraction. Once in love, they may matter less.

There is a difference between high maintenance and bat-sh!t crazy. I think many people who are out of the gate tagged as high maintenance, are in fact, bat sh!t crazy.


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## Viseral

I'd describe a high maintenance woman as needing constant attention. While it may be endearing at times it can also be a huge PITA.

I have a buddy who's married to a high maintenance woman. She's kinda hot, and I can imagine the sex must be pretty good, but dang, that woman never shuts up, always turning every little thing into a giant hassle, nags and complains all the time, can be very insulting, always wants to talk about her feelings, gets into fights regularly, you just can't relax around her. It's like she has a need to have drama all the time.

I've come to appreciate her more over the years, but dang, sometimes you wish you could point the remote control at her and hit the mute button.


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## Convection

I think the "high-maintenance" is less about the woman per se and more about what a man has to do to maintain a relationship with the woman.

It starts with what Deejo listed above but goes a step further. If a woman wants what she wants and is okay with it, that's fine. When she expects me to internalize it for the pleasure of her company, then that's where the problems start.

She can want a half-caf mocha whatever but when she starts expecting me to memorize that she wants that from Starbucks, a no-sugar vanilla iced coffee from Dunkin Donuts, but the hazeulnut double-Splenda cappuchino with lowfat cream from the local mom-n-pop shop - and then gets frosty because I don't remember which is which .... Yeah, not happening, toots. Happy to get it for you but don't expect me to read your mind. And I like to spend time with you, but not ONLY with you. And we can go to your Mom's this weekend, but not every weekend. And ... well, you get the point.

I know I am a psycho about certain things but those are mine to cope with, not my wife's, and I don't expect her to leap through hoops on my behalf, just because I'm awesome. That's how I describe "high-maintenance" women and have heard it described similarly in the past.


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## hambone

WellyVamp said:


> I hear men talk about high maintenance or low maintenance women and wonder what this is all about. :scratchhead:
> 
> Obviously there is the issue of a woman spending a lot of money on her appearance, but it's 2013. So, women pay for this out of their own money these days. There is also the emotional aspect, but don't all women and men have their high maintenance moments?
> 
> In many respects, high maintenance seems to mean alpha female, so is it a bad thing?
> 
> Equally, could being called low maintenance be a bit of a cuss, like being a nice guy? Is it shorthand for being dull, predictable, a bit of a doormat and plain?
> 
> Men always say that they want the low maintenance woman, but drool over the high maintenance ones.
> 
> For example; most men I know, including Mr Vamp say to their partners that looks, weight and clothes don't matter. Nevertheless, they don't search out pictures of frumpy women online when they fancy shaking hot white coconuts from the veiny love tree.
> 
> Please help me to understand this aspect of the male psyche!


To me, it means that they are selfish. It's all about me. They spend a ton of money on stuff for them... and want MORE MORE MORE... You can never satisfy them. They are much more concerned about themselves and not so concerned about their husband and kids. 

You pointed out that "they are spending their own money". Well, maybe they are... maybe they aren't. A really high maintance woman will financially break a man unless he is filthy rich. And, they don't care.... It's about ME!

About spending their own money. Are you saying that it's the husband's responsibility to pay for food, clothing, shelter, utilities, etc. and the wife's money... well... it's HER money.. after all, she did earn it! Is that correct? 

High maintance women are never satisfied...


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## unbelievable

To me, high maintenance denotes a woman incapable of being content, who is consistently requiring far more investment in time, attention, or money from a man than she ever returns.


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## WorkingOnMe

A woman who depends on me for her happiness. So whether its money or attention or activities its always something I have to do or give to keep her happy. She has no self identity. It takes constant work. That's high maintenance. I prefer a self sufficient woman.


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## Tall Average Guy

Viseral said:


> I'd describe a high maintenance woman as needing constant attention. While it may be endearing at times it can also be a huge PITA.
> 
> I have a buddy who's married to a high maintenance woman. She's kinda hot, and I can imagine the sex must be pretty good, but dang, that woman never shuts up, always turning every little thing into a giant hassle, nags and complains all the time, can be very insulting, always wants to talk about her feelings, gets into fights regularly, you just can't relax around her. It's like she has a need to have drama all the time.
> 
> I've come to appreciate her more over the years, but dang, sometimes you wish you could point the remote control at her and hit the mute button.


To me, high maintenance was less about the time and effort into her appearance, and more about expectations and interactions with those around her like Viseral mentions. The women who can't just go with things if everything is not perfect, whether it is the restaurant that did not meet expectations or having her hair ruined because she got caught in the rain. The woman who then expects everyone else, but most especially the men around her, to jump to her whim to fix the perceived problem, and will let everyone know when it is not being done to their satisfaction.


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## love=pain

I am with what I would call a high maintenance woman and I do wish at times she wasn't my take on this;

High maintenance=
controlling
very selfish
disrespectful
has to be the center of attention
everything is about her good or bad
needs constant praise reassurance of your love
very jealous of what you do and how you do it
unforgiving
seems to demand forgiveness for her sins (they are never as bad as yours ever!)
Very Vain / low self esteem
uses sex as a method of control (just because a woman has sex with you all the time doesn't mean she isn't controlling you with it)
complains about what you don't do or give to her then complains when you meet her demands that it still isn't right
sees (and reminds you) about your faults while ignoring her own
also ignores any of your good traits

One last thing of all the people I know every one who is married to a high maintenance woman has been cheated on by her at least once (at least that they know) and I am included in that group.

Wow started writing and just kept going but I do have 26 years of experience

Low maintenance=
easy going
accepts your good and bad (helps you overcome the bad and celebrates your good)
confident (in her body, in her relationships, in who she is)
will give you everything she has(but never tell you)
respectful

I know there are more but I just don't have the experience with this type of woman, the only other thing I have seen is a low maintenance woman generally have a good relationship with her parents and high does not.


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## Suspecting

It seems almost every poster has a different assessment what the term means so there might not be conclusive answer to this.


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## unbelievable

low maintenance woman - mythical being referred to in ancient legends, sometimes rode a unicorn.


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## CharlieParker

In the past I thought my wife was "high maintenance" (in a negative very sense, clingy and needy) and resented her a bit for it. I came to realize that her top love language is quality time (didn't know the term at the time) and I must meet that need of hers.


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## Deejo

Suspecting said:


> It seems almost every poster has a different assessment what the term means so there might not be conclusive answer to this.


No ... we all agree that she's a pain in the ass.

How she behaves when she's not being a PITA determines whether or not we will remain engaged.

I think unbelievable's succinct summary captures the lightning.

There is high maintenance that is cute and endearing, and there is high maintenance that is simply intolerable.

No doubt males can fall into the same category. I have a buddy who is very high maintenance.


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## hambone

Suspecting said:


> It seems almost every poster has a different assessment what the term means so there might not be conclusive answer to this.


I'd say the common thread is that high maintenance women are selfish and cannot be satisfied.

High Maintenance = a lot of work by the man to try to please her, make her happy, and it's never enough.


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## Rowan

In my marriage, I discovered that I was automatically "being high maintenance" if I didn't instantly give in to my husband's wishes, whims, opinions, etc. It was a manipulation to bring me to heel. It worked because my self-esteem was so low I dreaded and feared being labeled as an irrational, crazy, selfish drama queen. I didn't want to be a woman like that, so I did whatever he wanted so I would still be the "cool" wife. 

My husband, however, is the most low-key guy you can imagine - as long as everything is perking along on his preferred course and timetable. If things go off-course, though, he'll sling a fit that would put Scarlett O'Hara to absolute shame.  He's actually quite high maintenance. It's part and parcel of being a selfish control freak who absolutely lacks the capacity for contentment.


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## whitehawk

What guy wants an Alpha female though , what the girls wanna have nuts to now !
Although , guess some guys might like an Alpha chick , not for me though but nothin to do with maintenance l just looovvvee , very feminine females.

But seriously , l have 6 sisters who are all what l call high maintenance. They carry on about absolutely anything , demanding , winging , drama queens, always have an axe to grind , point to prove and a chip on their shoulder , they all like that. Their never happy and have all well and truly paid the price over and over.
Ha , my own sisters are exactly what l hate in a girl- wonder what that means , well apart from don't bother with them.

Low maintenance has nothing to do with bimbo , they're often twice as clued in and smarts as anyone of my very over educated sisters .
My wife -x , would run rings around them in every way , they're be just too out there to even realize it.
Yet she's cool , she's fun , very easy going yet no fool , she controlled the toughest of people with barely a word ,ceo's , so called tough [email protected] like those sisters of mine. 
Yet she was always beautiful to talk to, be around , work with , easy , self assured, nothing to prove to anyone , just calmly knew who she was . 
That easy , comfortable , sexy, low maintenance imo.
One of my daughters friends has got oodles of it too , man are they gonna be fighting over her.


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## C3156

hambone said:


> I'd say the common thread is that high maintenance women are selfish and cannot be satisfied.
> 
> High Maintenance = a lot of work by the man to try to please her, make her happy, and it's never enough.


Yes.


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## NatureDave

I don't necessarily buy the selfish angle or never enough.

High maintenance to me means needing a lot of attention, very picky or choosy (discerning, if you will), good or expensive taste, and usually goes with well-groomed, well-dressed, and always put together.

High maintenance people can be difficult to please sometimes, but not impossible.

Being in a relationship with someone high maintenance is not always a negative, either. My wife is rather high maintenance, but that gives me more opportunities to please and she is always appreciative. 

For a giver and doer like myself, a relationship with someone who didn't require or appreciate as much might not be as rewarding.


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## SimplyAmorous

Below are some feelings from men on what High Maintenance is...seems the definition is individualized-depending on the man....

I think we are ALL High maintenance in one way or another... for instance, many men are High Maintenance in SEX...they Want it A LOT and they won't be happy if they don't get it A LOT. Some require a **** & span house, etc etc. 



> Urban Dictionary: High Maintenance Women
> 
> *1.* excessively talkative, over-reactive, highly emotional, attention-seeking female who requires a firm handler. See also: excitement, bit**.
> 
> "_I'm sick of all these high maintenance women. They all expect me to talk!_"
> 
> *2. *Women that r more concerned about their exterior looks.
> The type you'll see with ugly older men that have lots of money.
> Selfish and in it for themselves.
> 
> *3*. Self-Centered, Needy, and always needing to look good to others.
> A women that's been married a few times. Are very sue minded towards men in court, regarding alimony and/or child support or both. They have the Jekyl and hyde syndrome... They use men strictly for money. The wealthy ones they like, whether the man is good looking or not.
> 
> *4.* Has higher than normal expectations; has a greater requirement for affection or attention; has more needs and/or demands and therefore more difficult or challenging.
> Doesn't equate to money or material possessions alone but may be needy in emotional attention and affection;picky, bratty, likes things her way, takes pride in her appearance, finicky. Usually very well put together and usually independent therefore requiring a lot out of aman to keep up with her.
> "If you have to reassure her through texts email or calls that you're lucky to have her, sheks so pretty, etc...- she's a high maintenance woman"
> 
> *5*. A person who has expensive taste (re. clothing, restaurants, etc.).
> This person is never comfortable because he/she is constantly concerned about his/her appearance.
> This person feels they are better than most people and usually judge others based on outward appearances.





> *CharlieParker said:* In the past I thought my wife was "high maintenance" (in a negative very sense, clingy and needy) and resented her a bit for it. I came to realize that her top love language is quality time (didn't know the term at the time) and I must meet that need of hers.


I am like your wife... though it's never been an issue ....as he LIKES me "CLINGY"....he even wanted more back in the day.... ...not as in a "I can't handle anything on my own" sense ....but more of a >> "I just love to be with you!" with a  sense....

It makes ME happy that this makes HIM happy...so we both WIN. 

We are both Time & Touchers at the top of our Love Languages, this explains it..... it would really hurt me if a man felt I was "Too much" here, it would irritate me and I'd probably want rid of him. That sounds high maintenance right there!! So yeah... It's best to BE with another who is similar so it seems "normal thriving" behavior ... 



> *NatureDave said*: I don't necessarily buy the selfish angle or never enough.
> 
> High maintenance to me means needing a lot of attention, very picky or choosy (discerning, if you will), good or expensive taste, and usually goes with well-groomed, well-dressed, and always put together.
> 
> High maintenance people can be difficult to please sometimes, but not impossible.
> 
> Being in a relationship with someone high maintenance is not always a negative, either. My wife is rather high maintenance, but that gives me more opportunities to please and she is always appreciative.
> 
> For a giver and doer like myself, a relationship with someone who didn't require or appreciate as much might not be as rewarding.


 My husband would talk like this ...he just came home, I read this to him....he said ...."Yeah"... that's how he feels... then pointed out that I don't have expensive tastes though and I am not one to care too much how fancy dressed I am.... but the rest, he'd agree ! He's always been a GIVER...his temperament profile even begins with this >> 



> ISFJ Profile ... ISFJs are characterized above all by their desire to serve others, their "need to be needed." In extreme cases, this need is so strong that standard give-and-take relationships are deeply unsatisfying to them...


 I show him much appreciation in return... I lavish it good.. this makes him feel very loved. I'll be the 1st to admit I am not easy to please... but he keeps me very happy. We are good together. 

Maybe you are an ISFJ too Nature Dave! Temperament tests  HERE  - in case you are interested...

Love Languages Tests here >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-languages-how-does-affect-your-marraige.html


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## ravioli

A high maintenance woman you have to talk to a little more sternly and put her in proper place. She likes to be cut down a little because she's used to men putting her on a pedastal. She's worth a good fling, or to show off for a few months to stunt on other guys, but other than that they're not worth the trouble.

Most guys want the high maintenance look, with a low maintenance personality. Nice guys tend to fall for the high maintenance girl after she's been ran through and then marry these types. Then they're circling around campfires wondering why their wife cheated on them. You can't marry these women. They are not built for the long haul because a lot of them consciously and even unconsciously change men. Men get mesmerized by the puss, then start simping and thus men are puddy in their hands.

A lot of these women come in the form of trophy wives. They usually seek their prey for the long term in the form of a docile guy but their playtoy playboy is usually some young tatted up gym dude.


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## always_alone

unbelievable said:


> low maintenance woman - mythical being referred to in ancient legends, sometimes rode a unicorn.


Oh we exist. But most men are too busy drooling after the high maintenance ones to even notice us. Like moths to a flame.


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## hambone

always_alone said:


> Oh we exist. But most men are too busy drooling after the high maintenance ones to even notice us. Like moths to a flame.


They do exists... I'm married to one.


I think it depends on whether the man wants to appear to have it all... or does he want to be happily married to a woman who is unselfish.. and puts her family ahead of herself.


For example. If you have 3 small children and have to make a choice between cable TV and weekly pedicures. The high maintenance wife will cut out cable TV...


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## SimplyAmorous

hambone said:


> I think it depends on whether the man wants to appear to have it all... or does he want to be happily married to a woman who is unselfish.. and puts her family ahead of herself.
> 
> For example. If you have 3 small children and have to make a choice between cable TV and weekly pedicures. The high maintenance wife will cut out cable TV...


 I could never understand how places like that make any money, seems so silly to me.. I would be bottom of the barrel NO maintenance here...those are just things you do yourself. 

We toured a SPA resort a month ago...The prices on the net were astronomical & I was curious to see what the big deal was ...as we were staying at their sister Family Resort..... 

After it was over....we looked at each other, I asked him what he thought...he says ..."It's another lifestyle"... we weren't impressed at all....looked boring to us even...they had separate hot tubs for the men & women...what fun is that! 

We both laughed about our vehicle being the oldest in the parking lot & said we'll stick to getting those rustic cabins in the woods... even with some bugs....our own hot tub on the porch ..the deer & birds the only life around, we'll give ourselves that massage...and we feel like we're Living the high life.


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## 2ntnuf

Know what you want and go for it. Don't expect so much out of a man that he cannot get his needs met. 

Be loving and proud. Don't be haughty. Be humble when it's warranted.

Know your worth without rubbing everyone's nose in it. Expect respect. Don't verbally scream about it if you don't get it. Just make your statement and have your limits set. If you don't get your needs met, take action.



You are only high maintenance when the bar is set too high or constantly way out of reach because you are untouchable or intimacy(not sex) is unreachable without some kind of "payment" like constant attention, gifts, verbal praise. 

Remember, I said the bar keeps moving higher. It's good to give if it is reciprocated in some manner.


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## RandomDude

Eh? High maintenance women? Been there, done that, fking married one... bah!


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## Kasler

I see high maintenance women as women who are too much effort to date. So many games, selfish in the sack, and far too entitled for my tastes. 

I knew to get the hell out when one girl was upset I didn't get her a one month anniversary gift.


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## SimplyAmorous

Trenton said:


> I am considered high maintenance. Deal with it mofo's or don't. This high maintenance woman could care less either way.
> 
> What does that make me? Alpha. That's right biatches. So if you're not Alpha enough to handle an Alpha lady go find yourself a Beta and tell yourself you're in control.
> 
> Otherwise, all I require is constant attention, reaffirmation and dedication. It's called being human. Get some.


I had to laugh reading this....Your post made me think of this article I came across not long ago....about Alpha Females & the type of men that "work" best for them... they didn't call these females "*High Maintenance*"... but it's very clear, by some of the responses on this thread...it fits...

What Alpha Women Should Look for in a Relationship Ready Man | Dating Without Drama 

You say if a man isn't ALPHA enough to handle you, go find a Beta to control ....in many of these cases it is the Beta males who CAN HANDLE the Alpha females.... in fact ENJOY handling them... They are even more attracted to them [email protected]#$% 




> An alpha woman can best be described as a total B.I.T.C.H., otherwise known as a Babe In Total Control of Herself. She’s confident and assertive. She’s good looking and intelligent. She’s sassy, bossy and classy – all at the same time. And when it comes to relationship ready men, she prefers to run the show and have the final say. ...
> 
> If you are the type of woman who knows exactly what she wants and goes for it, then the Beta man is the perfect relationship ready man for you. He’ll worship the ground you walk on and treat you with the utmost respect because he values and cherishes you. He admires your courage and strength and places you on a pedestal because he feels lucky that you chose him.
> 
> He knows he’s not the best looking guy or smoothest guy in the room, so he does everything within his power to make sure your relationship needs are being met, especially when it comes to satisfying you in the bedroom. A deep desire to please you is the Beta man’s best quality yet. This relationship ready man will be your biggest ally because he has no doubts about putting his complete faith and trust in you.


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## 2ntnuf

You guys seem so confused with the concepts of Alpha and High Maintenance. A true alpha, from what I read would typically be lower maintenance if all is done properly. There would be less neediness. As stated, the alpha would be more in control of themselves. All the best qualities of the alpha would reduce some of the drama that surrounds being High Maintenance.

This type of personality would attract many types of people, other alpha's, beta's, gamma's and delta's. LOL You guys need to think about the ideal when considering this stuff, not the closest thing you will ever get to it. Because, that is where you are confusing things. You are right when considering that no one can truly meet all the thngs that are considered alpha or beta or high or low maintenance. No one is perfect. It shows immaturity when we don't consider this.


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## unbelievable

Toby Keith - High Maintenance Woman - YouTube


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## Mavash.

As a reformed alpha female I think it's different than men. When I was an alpha female it was about control and neediness masked as independence. I don't need no stinking man was my mantra but secretly I longed to be taken care of and loved.

I never thought of myself as high maintenance though. I can take care of myself. If anything my husband wished I needed him more.

This was just my experience YMMV.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *Unbelievable said*:*To me, high maintenance denotes a woman incapable of being content, who is consistently requiring far more investment in time, attention, or money from a man than she ever returns.*


 I think this gets to the  of it... so if a woman gives back AS MUCH to her man...(and they are enjoying that ride)..... then this disqualifies her from this negative label then?

I will admit ...my husband's always spoiled me...I was never all that bad, but I did take more than I gave in the past....I woke up... these last few yrs I've given back as much - if not more so...he even said that once to me. I guess I am not High Maintenance then! 



Trenton said:


> Article describes my husband and I, always thought he was Beta. It makes perfect sense really. It's like Yin and Yang.
> 
> And I don't see it as weak or submissive or less than. I rather see it as the perfect fit, what feels right.


 We feel the same...I've plastered & defended my husbands Beta-ness on here something relentless ....even if it's a little backwards from the norm...it does work for us.  




> *Mavash said*:As a reformed alpha female I think it's different than men. When I was an alpha female it was about control and neediness masked as independence. *I don't need no stinking man was my mantra but secretly I longed to be taken care of and loved.*
> 
> I never thought of myself as high maintenance though. I can take care of myself. *If anything my husband wished I needed him more.*


 I love your post Mavash ...I can't help but wonder how common such a "mask" may be in other women as well...just not going there -being able to freely /vulnerably show/ express they NEED 
 a man. 

My husband freely admits he LIKES feeling "needed" by me. I've never been afraid , reluctant or ashamed to say .. it's still not a desperation NEED- like we are going to DIE... we are drowning ...but showing a deep well of thankfulness & gratitude for what they bring - Yeah, we all want to feel that !



unbelievable said:


> Toby Keith - High Maintenance Woman - YouTube
> 
> * Some of the words* :
> 
> See my baby doll
> She's my beauty queen
> She's my movie star
> Best I ever seen
> I ain't hooked it up yet
> But I'm tryin' hard as I can
> It's just a high maintenance woman
> Don't want no maintenance man
> Ain't no high maintenance woman
> Gonna fall for a maintenance man...no


I checked out that video... Nothing wrong with being a Maintenance man -to support a family even...that'd work for me...I like those blue collar type...it would help if he looked like this though >>


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## Deejo

I need a high maintenance woman.

Keeps me interested and on my toes.


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## ocotillo

always_alone said:


> Oh we exist. But most men are too busy drooling after the high maintenance ones to even notice us. Like moths to a flame.


Yes. Normal maintenance ladies definitely exist. On the whole, my wife is one too.


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## Runs like Dog

High maintenance is ingratitude, whiny, high strung, obsessive, critical, scolding, passive aggressive, paranoid, childish, selfish and just plain mean. 

Low maintenance is not that.


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## Dollystanford

High maintenance is not the same as interesting and challenging I think

High maintenance is about constant dramarama and needing lots of support, generally emotional

My ex was such a person - I was the low maintenance one in the relationship


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## NextTimeAround

Why don't we set out some scenarios to compare what an LM or an HM woman do.

For example, 

1. when you start dating a woman do you prefer a
a. woman who always insists that you drive to her home to pick her up no matter how much driving or back tracking the plans will require you to do.
b. a woman who happily drives herself usually meeting you halfway.

When you suggest to your date to choose a restaurant and she chooses one along the lines of Applebee / Bennigan's / Ruby Tuesday, do you think
a. great, she's a cheap date and always remember to keep your activities with her within that price range despite the fact that when you want to go to some place better, you most likely ask someone else, because the other date can appreciate it more.
b. great, that was considerate of her to choose something nice but not too expensive and the next time you'll choose the restaurant and get something really nice for the both of you.

When you are dating a woman steadily, do you
a. pay for all dates and everything on the evening and it's a pleasure for you to do it.
b. pay for the most of the date and try to get her to pay for some of things like the tip for dinner or have coffee and dessert somewhere else and aks her to pay for it.
c. you expect everything to be 50/50.

I'll think of some more scenarios.


----------



## NextTimeAround

SimplyAmorous said:


> I had to laugh reading this....Your post made me think of this article I came across not long ago....about Alpha Females & the type of men that "work" best for them... they didn't call these females "*High Maintenance*"... but it's very clear, by some of the responses on this thread...it fits...
> 
> What Alpha Women Should Look for in a Relationship Ready Man | Dating Without Drama
> 
> You say if a man isn't ALPHA enough to handle you, go find a Beta to control ....in many of these cases it is the Beta males who CAN HANDLE the Alpha females.... in fact ENJOY handling them... They are even more attracted to them [email protected]#$%


Here's a quote from that article:



> If you are the type of woman who knows exactly what she wants and goes for it, then the Beta man is the perfect relationship ready man for you. -


Small irony here..... if a woman knows what she wants and goes and gets it, then why would she need to read that article.


----------



## Runs like Dog

The Porsche 356B I used to own was high maintenance. But a blast to drive. The Corvair Monza I used to own was just a ratty oil leaking push rod blowing piston eating troublesome pain in the ass.

Big big difference.


----------



## tobio

Had to laugh at Trenton's post. Still laughing now. I get it.

Hubz describes me as high-maintenance. He says to him this means I know what I want and I won't accept less. I will state he sees this as a positive and a compliment towards me. He respects it.

Funny thing is, once we got to the point of him resisting giving and going outside his comfort zone, all of a sudden I found I was happier with him than in a long time. Life felt a lot more settled for me, and it has been for him because we're not constantly critiquing or discussing our relationship. I admire he took that step because I knew it was hard for him - and to be truthful, I didn't think he would find it in himself. But he did. And the maintenance has done wonders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Runs like Dog

So basically a high maintenance gall is someone who's thrilled with her success in 'changing her man'. 

I guess we're trying out for the cover of Stereotypic Harpy Monthly Magazine.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

NextTimeAround said:


> Here's a quote from that article:
> 
> Small irony here..... if a woman knows what she wants and goes and gets it, then why would she need to read that article.


I will be happy to answer this...no irony...I enjoy reading articles on BETA men...the Pros, the Cons...I resonate with every article that speaks they are superior over Alphas....FOR ME ...... I am not meaning ALL Beta (that'd be a total doormat)....I just mean "TIPPED" Beta on the scales... if you will.......I seriously doubt the majority of men are perfectly balanced anyway but struggle to be more in one way or another. They both have good, but you wouldn't know this by googling the term Beta! 

It's in how they love, what they give.. they are more family oriented, generally more Romantic, sensitive, usually give their women more TIME, affection... make loving involved fathers...... all things I wanted , would have even been deal breakers -in a man. 

Here is a little explanation of the terms....



> The *Alpha Traits* are those associated with classic “manly man” strengths. Power, dominance, physical ability, bravery, wealth, cool and confidence. Oh and good genes. These are the things that attract women and turn them on sexually. The Alpha Traits are linked to the dopamine response in women.
> 
> *Alpha *= attraction building = Dopamine = In Love = Excitement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Beta Traits* are those associated with the strengths of being a nice guy / “family man”. Kindness, being a good listener, the ability to help with the children, dependability, thoughtfulness, compassion and patience. These all create a sense of comfort and safety for the woman, and relax her because she feels that if she became pregnant, the Beta Trait male isn’t going to abandon her and the baby.
> 
> *Beta *= comfort building = Oxytocin / Vasopressin = Pair Bond = Calm Enjoyment"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Alpha Traits create attraction and that “in love” feeling, and Beta Traits create the pair bond and makes her feel relaxed enough to have sex. You need a balance of both Alpha and Beta in a marriage to maximize her desire to have sex with you.
Click to expand...

It seems the majority of women get turned on by confidence &  -when it comes to men...that's simply NOT my allure, I prefer a Best friend -we do everything together type Lover... those are usually the Beta boys. I know what works for me. 

I never knew these terms till I found this forum, then suddenly realized...







my husband is so Beta... and I found myself wanting to argue with those who put Beta men down... I would throw myself into these threads....also I wanted to show that some men are more geared this way by their very temperaments...

I went out of my way to learn, read more - as we have 5 sons , some are like their dad, will they be doomed in love... being BETA....as a Mom I don't want this [email protected]#$ I wanted to understand my husband more.....and myself... as really...when I first landed here, I did want more ALPHA in the bedroom....I was a bit conflicted... but ultimately we worked this out, he loves an aggressive woman as much as I love a sappy Romantic [email protected]#$ I'm the Don Jaun..... We are still a superb match. 

I happen to think Betas have been slaughtered all over the internet ...and yes, it has irritated me... Even did a thread on it once >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...nice-guys-described-so-many-google-links.html


----------



## NextTimeAround

Interesting SA, I always associated being a provider and wanting to provide with being Alpha. It's the alpha man who gets the job, makes the money and brings it home to take care of the family.

Of course, being the one with the money make turn him into controlling.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

NextTimeAround said:


> Interesting SA, *I always associated being a provider and wanting to provide with being Alpha. It's the alpha man who gets the job, makes the money and brings it home to take care of the family.*


 Oh how Badly Beta is painted on the net, for you to think they aren't the type to bring home the bacon & support their family... what a shame .....the whole term needs such redemption......since Mr Alpha is touted as being the end all to every woman in every sense.....Beta is to be ran from, even kicked. 

More clarification...here is a poster who had a similar line of thinking....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/23220-definitive-alpha-beta-thread.html

He puts this chart in his opening post.....what he feels he has learned >>










Thankfully Athol Kay comes to the rescue and sets him straight on some things... with his chart >>










I happen to have a great appreciation for how Athol Kay has given balance to this issue in his "Married man's sex life " book - where as all these A-hole Pick up Artists sites has slaughtered any goodness in "Beta".... 

I consider this to be the best post I have read on TAM -speaking to the very  of taking either extreme....showing EVERY MAN needs a healthy balance of ALPHA *and BETA *....showing the pure value in EACH and how it is manifested in his actions, daily life....and there is A LOT to love about the Beta characteristics. Compliments to Entropy for this one ...



[B]Entropy3000[/B] said:


> Pure Alpha males are not leaders. Pure Beta men are not leaders. It takes a balance of the positive qualities to be a leader. There pure extremes will not occur in nature but it is a sliding scale.
> 
> The confusion is when folks want to view Alpha as superior to Beta and so on as a scale of a quality man and that is not what it is about at all. In fact magnitude comes into play as well. You can have two fairly balanced men with one of them posessing high Alpha and High Beta traits while the other posesses lower Alpha and lower Beta traits. They both have a balance but they are very different people.
> 
> A child is in a burning home and needs help :
> 
> An extreme Beta male cares very much for the child and only wishes someone could help the child. He is paralyzed by his own fear and lacks the confidence to be decisive and take action. He looks to others to save the child.
> 
> An extreme Alpha male has the capability to do something but is too selfish to risk their own well being.
> 
> A quality man with high Alpha and high Beta traits of the right combination will be driven to action. They are compelled by their Beta feelings to invoke the Alpha within them. They get past the fear and show courage. They are decisive. They know that they are the child's only chance. They take the risk knowing they may not survive themselves. That is very Beta, but it is also very Alpha. The combination is what makes the man.
> 
> A good leader cares about their people. They are strong for the group. There are not a lot of good leaders.


----------



## boysmakegoodpets

unbelievable said:


> low maintenance woman - mythical being referred to in ancient legends, sometimes rode a unicorn.


heehee...very humorous, but not strictly true. they do exist. my primary partner is one. She is _so_ not a fan of needless drama, and is not very particular about a lot of things. i'm submissive, and when unpartnered have fantasized plenty about difficult, high-maintenance women (and i've loved more than one in the past), but a relatively low-maintenance woman seems a whole lot easier to have and maintain an actual relationship with.


----------



## AlphaProvider

WellyVamp said:


> I hear men talk about high maintenance or low maintenance women and wonder what this is all about. :scratchhead:
> 
> Obviously there is the issue of a woman spending a lot of money on her appearance, but it's 2013. So, women pay for this out of their own money these days. There is also the emotional aspect, but don't all women and men have their high maintenance moments?
> 
> In many respects, high maintenance seems to mean alpha female, so is it a bad thing?
> 
> Equally, could being called low maintenance be a bit of a cuss, like being a nice guy? Is it shorthand for being dull, predictable, a bit of a doormat and plain?
> 
> Men always say that they want the low maintenance woman, but drool over the high maintenance ones.
> 
> For example; most men I know, including Mr Vamp say to their partners that looks, weight and clothes don't matter. Nevertheless, they don't search out pictures of frumpy women online when they fancy shaking hot white coconuts from the veiny love tree.
> 
> Please help me to understand this aspect of the male psyche!


High maintenance can be nice to look at, but be a real terrible proposition to "be with".

Low maintenance can be descent to look at, but a real deal to be with, it won't win any reality tv shows but all your needs will be met without fuss or bloodletting.

In high maintenance, it's very possible some of your needs will NEVER be met and by design.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I think in my single years, high maintenance was actually a derogatory term used to describe some women who were not suitable for committed relationships unless you had lots of money, and had a high tolerance for drama and stupidity.

However, like almost everything over the last few decades, the meaning of the term has evolved to represent something else.
A woman who's self assured, confident , and does not necessarily need a man to help her.She views men as accessories.

These types of women generally choose their mates and not the other way around. They are highly sought after by eligible men but not necessarily good for LTR, because they usually have lots of narcissistic traits.

Kinda like " Trophy wife " material.
There are some women who are naturally like that and there are those who pretend to be like that.

The high maintenance women I see now, are actually highly educated , well advanced in their career and drive luxury vehicles.
They are self made.
They are not really emotionally clingy, but they are big spenders. You can see it by the way they dress and carry about themselves.
Some men are afraid to approach them , because they are way beyond their league.


----------



## john_lord_b3

Mr. CM, you just described some of my country's most famous movie stars   and yes, they change husbands like change clothings.. Their money and fame does not guarantee marital bliss..


----------



## Caribbean Man

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. CM, you just described some of my country's most famous movie stars   and yes, they change husbands like change clothings.. Their money and fame does not guarantee marital bliss..


Yes,

Movie stars, models ,supermodels , successful lawyers , successful businesswomen , 
[ especially the younger ones], etc are among what we now call " High Maintenance."

They change men regularly because they are looking for a certain type of man to suit their lifestyle.
They don't change their lifestyle to accommodate a man.
They don't " settle" for men because they are never desperate.
_They_ choose their men.

They call the shots in the relationship.

If a man knows his way around women and has lots of self confidence,a relationship with such a woman can be exciting as well as fulfilling.
But it is a careful balancing act. After all these women are just only human, and they have " weaknesses ."


----------



## hambone

Caribbean Man said:


> I think in my single years, high maintenance was actually a derogatory term used to describe some women who were not suitable for committed relationships unless you had lots of money, and had a high tolerance for drama and stupidity.
> 
> However, like almost everything over the last few decades, the meaning of the term has evolved to represent something else.
> A woman who's self assured, confident , and does not necessarily need a man to help her.She views men as accessories.
> 
> These types of women generally choose their mates and not the other way around. They are highly sought after by eligible men but not necessarily good for LTR, because they usually have lots of narcissistic traits.
> 
> Kinda like " Trophy wife " material.
> There are some women who are naturally like that and there are those who pretend to be like that.
> 
> The high maintenance women I see now, are actually highly educated , well advanced in their career and drive luxury vehicles.
> They are self made.
> They are not really emotionally clingy, but they are big spenders. You can see it by the way they dress and carry about themselves.
> Some men are afraid to approach them , because they are way beyond their league.


I go with the old school definition. 

A high maintenance woman is one who simply cannot be satisfied.. particular when it comes to material things. You work as hard as you can, give more, more, more and it's never enough. By my definition, these women don't work... they don't have time... they are too busy at the spa, working out, shopping, pedicures, manicures, massages, beauty appts., analysts, etc. etc. etc. They expect their SO to provide everything they need. they are selfish.. it's all about me... and if they break their man... they don't care... they'll just move on.. and break someone else.

I know a high maintenance women here in town that has broken 3 men. Three men have committed suicide over her. She ruined them financially and they just couldn't take it. The lady two doors down was high maintenance. In 5 years, she remodeled her kitchen 3 times. Twice in the same calendar year. 

I am acquainted with a high maintenance woman who was getting $10,000 a month in alimony and was whinning that she absolutely could not survive on that. She married her another doctor. 

The women you're describing... Well, if they have careers, I would just consider them very demanding, difficult, etc. But, if they are spending their own money... the "She's paying.. she's saying" rule applies.


----------



## AlphaProvider

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. CM, you just described some of my country's most famous movie stars   and yes, they change husbands like change clothings.. Their money and fame does not guarantee marital bliss..


Oh it's summer. I need to get a new boyfriend.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

tobio said:


> Hubz describes me as high-maintenance. He says to him this means I know what I want and I won't accept less._Posted via Mobile Device_


To me, how a woman reacts when she can't get what she wants is the difference between a quality women and high-maintenance. The former realizes that things are sometime out of your control and tries to make the best of it. The latter lashes out and makes sure everyone is miserable like they are.

My gf (now wife) and I were checking into a hotel with some friends. They screwed up the reservations for both of us (my friend made them) and our rooms were not nearly as nice. My gf was unhappy (and let the hotel know it), but was determined not to let that disappointment ruin our vacation. My friend's gf complained about it the entire vacation - it was like she was determined to be miserable because everything was not perfect - all the while hiding behind her belief that she was strong willed woman who knew what she wanted and was entitled to nothing less. My friend was expected to cater to her for the rest of the trip to make up for this "awful" failure of the hotel. 

A huge difference to me and was a great reminder of what a quality woman my my wife is.


----------



## hambone

Tall Average Guy said:


> To me, how a woman reacts when she can't get what she wants is the difference between a quality women and high-maintenance and high-self-worth. The former realizes that things are sometime out of your control and tries to make the best of it. The latter lashes out and makes sure everyone is miserable like they are.
> 
> My gf (now wife) and I were checking into a hotel with some friends. They screwed up the reservations for both of us (my friend made them) and our rooms were not nearly as nice. My gf was unhappy (and let the hotel know it), but was determined not to let that disappointment ruin our vacation. My friend's gf complained about it the entire vacation - it was like she was determined to be miserable because everything was not perfect - all the while hiding behind her belief that she was strong willed woman who knew what she wanted and was entitled to nothing less. My friend was expected to cater to her for the rest of the trip to make up for this "awful" failure of the hotel.
> 
> A huge difference to me and was a great reminder of what a quality woman my my wife is.


High Maintenance women are NEVER happy. You cannot satisfy them.


----------



## AlphaProvider

hambone said:


> High Maintenance women are NEVER happy. You cannot satisfy them.


Well they have a ranking system, that perhaps if you where Brad Pit, an Arab Oil Company CEO, etc that you would be treated at an acceptable level.

It all fits into their view of themself and their long term aspirations. You may have been a "temp" on the way towards their goals.

This happens, and it is something acceptable for someone to buy into if they know about it. But being tricked into it, I'm not sure.


----------



## Caribbean Man

hambone said:


> I know a high maintenance women here in town that has broken 3 men. Three men have committed suicide over her. She ruined them financially and they just couldn't take it. The lady two doors down was high maintenance. In 5 years, she remodeled her kitchen 3 times. Twice in the same calendar year.


:lol:

lol, YES!

That was the typical old school definition.
I remember this chick that caused a cop to shoot another man over her, and commit suicide.

She then went on to hook up with a businessman.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Caribbean Man said:


> :lol:
> 
> lol, YES!
> 
> That was the typical old school definition.
> I remember this chick that caused a cop to shoot another man over her, and commit suicide.
> 
> She then went on to hook up with a businessman.


Great stuff.

Then back to my original mentality. No hot babes, it's all just women.


----------



## hambone

Caribbean Man said:


> :lol:
> 
> lol, YES!
> 
> That was the typical old school definition.
> I remember this chick that caused a cop to shoot another man over her, and commit suicide.
> 
> She then went on to hook up with a businessman.


And, the amazing thing is... NONE of these women... would I... by any stretch of the imagination... consider them HAWT!!!

In fact, based on looks, I wouldn't date any of them. Based on personality... I would date any of them. 

My only conclusion is that they must have some tremendous hidden talent!!! IE... in the bedroom...

One final thing... When they break a man... and leave him... they have absolutely no remorse. I mean, after all, he was no longer able to satisfy her needs! They forget the part that NO ONE short of perhaps Bill Gates could fulfill their needs.


----------



## Kaboom

I really didn't bother to read pages 2-present. Page 1 shows that "high maintenance" is in the very least, misunderstood and confused.

I've been with two very high maintenance women in my life, both different, yet I would call them both high maintenance.

The first. She took 1 hour in the shower, 2-3 hours putting on her makeup, and another hour to get dressed. THAT was high maintenance, but not in of itself. She also was a compulsive liar and created so much drama from thin air that Hollywood writers should be ringing her phone off the hook. She also had some OCD, and a general level of paranoia (which sparked a lot of the drama).

So a day in my life was always being an hour late to anywhere "we" had to be. Her nagging incessantly all the way to where-ever we were going, when we arrive, she tells everyone nothing but lies and creates stories that never happened- and for no good reason. In most cases, the truth would have been far more convenient.. she told so many lies and long-winded stories that she would eventually jumble up what was truth or lies and couldn't remember which was which. Anyways, after someone calling her on her BS, or her trying to confront someone else, and a "real housewives" argument/drama incitement- we would leave in a huff, and on the way home, she would spend every moment accusing me of wanting to cheat with every woman there. Family events were about 10x worse.

She would call me at work and talk for hours, no matter how much I protested or told her it was getting me in trouble, she would only make my life miserable with even more nagging later if I cut her off before her 1-3 hours was up. She would also in public start crap with guys, then expect me to "kick his ass" for her (in her mind: stick up for her). Fun. So. Much. Fun.

There's so much more.. but my point is THAT is high maintenance. Some chick buying $10 in extra makeup is not.

My wife is the other high maintenance- Bi-polar, anxiety disorder, overweight, depression, anger problems, abused mentally, physically, and sexually as a child... OMG just high stress and high maintenance. Much has been discussed about her already, no sense digging that all up.


----------



## NextTimeAround

NextTimeAround said:


> Why don't we set out some scenarios to compare what an LM or an HM woman do.
> 
> For example,
> 
> 1. when you start dating a woman do you prefer a
> a. woman who always insists that you drive to her home to pick her up no matter how much driving or back tracking the plans will require you to do.
> b. a woman who happily drives herself usually meeting you halfway.
> 
> When you suggest to your date to choose a restaurant and she chooses one along the lines of Applebee / Bennigan's / Ruby Tuesday, do you think
> a. great, she's a cheap date and always remember to keep your activities with her within that price range despite the fact that when you want to go to some place better, you most likely ask someone else, because the other date can appreciate it more.
> b. great, that was considerate of her to choose something nice but not too expensive and the next time you'll choose the restaurant and get something really nice for the both of you.
> 
> When you are dating a woman steadily, do you
> a. pay for all dates and everything on the evening and it's a pleasure for you to do it.
> b. pay for the most of the date and try to get her to pay for some of things like the tip for dinner or have coffee and dessert somewhere else and aks her to pay for it.
> c. you expect everything to be 50/50.
> 
> I'll think of some more scenarios.


No one has responded to my quiz. HOw can I be better informed about these matters?

I'll tell you a story from just last year.

My fiance and I, while visiting his parents, went out to the mall, since shopping is the one thing that you do while visiting the US. We stopped at a Ruby Tuesday for lunch. I thnaked him for lunch as he is always generous with me (now that we excised his "friend" out of our lives). And then he says to me, "I can't believe that you're so impressed with this place. I could have taken you to somewhere better." (and over the years, something like this has happened before, why do I even bother being thankful?)

Where on earth did that remark come from? Do I have to empty out a guy's wallet before he can respect me?


----------



## Enginerd

A high maintenance women is not an equal marriage partner. She is someone who demands to be put on a pedastal and given special treatment regardless of the circumstances. She is a liability in a life long partnership. I think this is different from an Alpha female because I have known many high maintenance women who needed a ton of attention due to their insecurities. 

Alpha females don't always need a man and typically act independently. They seem to know what they want and aggressively go after it. I think it might be difficult to stay married to an Alpha because she could eventually lose respect for you if you don't bring your A game. I suppose bringing your A game all the time could be considered high maintenance. IMO it would get old constantly trying to impress an Alpha. What's the reward?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Enginerd said:


> Alpha females don't always need a man and typically act independently. They seem to know what they want and aggressively go after it. I think it might be difficult to stay married to an Alpha because she could eventually lose respect for you if you don't bring your A game. I suppose bringing your A game all the time could be considered high maintenance. IMO it would get old constantly trying to impress an Alpha. What's the reward?


I have a different observation.
I personally know three " Alpha females" who are married with kids, and they are married longer than me.
One is a high profile, female senior counsel / jurist in the Caribbean region. Her husband is a retired high school teacher.

The other two are business women who have been married to very simple men for years. One is a self made millionare. I know her personally, she's always in teh newspapers but shields her family from the public. They have two kids, a son and daughter.
Interestingly the daughter took after her dad. She was quiet and reserved, attended university got her degree and presently working overseas.
The son however took after the mom. Before he finished high school , he owned a taxi service, shuttling school kids to and from school. He never attended university and today he owns a trucking company, which he built for himself.

Real Alpha females are an asset to a man once their marriage is a genuine ,good fit.
His " A game " is him doing his best because she will push him, and has no problem doing so. Its up to him to recognize the game plan.

A huge part of marriage is creating the perfect balance where both parties feel free to be themselves and together , they excel .


----------



## Wiserforit

WellyVamp said:


> For example; most men I know, including Mr Vamp say to their partners that looks, weight and clothes don't matter. Nevertheless, they don't search out pictures of frumpy women online when they fancy shaking hot white coconuts from the veiny love tree.


"Don't matter" to what purpose? Jacking off to a two-dimensional picture once vs spending the rest of your life with someone - Weight can be critical to one and much less so to the other. 



Insofar as makeup, the high maintenance woman makes you wait on her while she spends two hours in the bathroom preparing it. Low maintenance never makes you wait. The difference is not even so much that they wear different quantities of make-up. It's that one of them is selfish and enjoys imposing on others because she is a narcissist whereas the other is a decent person. 

A person can say they are "alpha" when being an abusive prick, sure. But that isn't any kind of alpha to be crowing about.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Tall Average Guy said:


> To me, how a woman reacts when she can't get what she wants is the difference between a quality women and high-maintenance. The former realizes that things are sometime out of your control and tries to make the best of it. The latter lashes out and makes sure everyone is miserable like they are.
> 
> My gf (now wife) and I were checking into a hotel with some friends. They screwed up the reservations for both of us (my friend made them) and our rooms were not nearly as nice. My gf was unhappy (and let the hotel know it), but was determined not to let that disappointment ruin our vacation. My friend's gf complained about it the entire vacation - it was like she was determined to be miserable because everything was not perfect - all the while hiding behind her belief that she was strong willed woman who knew what she wanted and was entitled to nothing less. My friend was expected to cater to her for the rest of the trip to make up for this "awful" failure of the hotel.
> 
> A huge difference to me and was a great reminder of what a quality woman my my wife is.


We just had this situation where we are staying... I didn't get all bent out of shape... 2 days ago... our family arrived at a Campground, we always get one of the nicest Cabins here...with our 5 kids...it wasn't cleaned ...... I was more upset we had no toilet paper - and no garbage liner... as well..one of the kids --needed that...I didn't bring it -knowing this was furnished. 

So I quickly tracked down an employee on her golf cart going past... told her... she showed some irritation for us, how this was not right, these cabins cost a lot, how it happened last week to another...and she was going to send someone over, I told her I didn't care about any of that, just wanted the toilet paper & the liners...and we're good ! ...She saved me from going to the Office...She wanted to clean it for us real quick but I told her no, not a big deal. I appreciated HER attitude very much though. Good employee. So long as we got that toilet paper and garbage liners... life is good [email protected]# 

We've had alot of mishaps on this little vacation... our Cabin door wasn't locking right.. the freezer wasn't cold enough so all the ice cream bars we just bought stay melted......Tv wouldn't shut off, the internet was between 1 Mbps to about 18 ...slow to a crawl, kicking us off....the break shoes he recently changed had this horrible burning smell the whole drive ... kids fighting more than normal ... it's been raining almost non stop -so we missed some of the activities we were wanting to do - we didn't cover our wood pile...there goes our campfire & smores... they never caught one fish/ lots of sea weed..kid got a hook in his foot being barefoot. 

I admired my husband ...watching him go from one fishing pole to the next, tangles & all (such patience -and he 's through it all)....with the little one throwing his hands up in the air saying "This is boring dude".... oh well... we just kinda laugh about it...I told him what a great dad he was...and joked if that was me, I'd want to throw those fishing poles in the middle of the lake. 

Most of our vacations are go very smoothly....our attitude is...this has to happen once in awhile! Thank God we made it here alive, the lightning didn't take our electric... the raccoon I seen scurry off the porch didn't bite my leg .... we still had lots of laughs, some great conversations with our teens... it was a great time/ good memories.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SimplyAmorous said:


> *....with the little one throwing his hands up in the air saying "This is boring dude".... oh well... we just kinda laugh about it...*


This^^^ just made me laugh!


----------



## AlphaProvider

SimplyAmorous said:


> We just had this situation where we are staying... I didn't get all bent out of shape... 2 days ago... our family arrived at a Campground, we always get one of the nicest Cabins here...with our 5 kids...it wasn't cleaned ...... I was more upset we had no toilet paper - and no garbage liner... as well..one of the kids --needed that...I didn't bring it -knowing this was furnished.
> 
> So I quickly tracked down an employee on her golf cart going past... told her... she showed some irritation for us, how this was not right, these cabins cost a lot, how it happened last week to another...and she was going to send someone over, I told her I didn't care about any of that, just wanted the toilet paper & the liners...and we're good ! ...She saved me from going to the Office...She wanted to clean it for us real quick but I told her no, not a big deal. I appreciated HER attitude very much though. Good employee. So long as we got that toilet paper and garbage liners... life is good [email protected]#
> 
> We've had alot of mishaps on this little vacation... our Cabin door wasn't locking right.. the freezer wasn't cold enough so all the ice cream bars we just bought stay melted......Tv wouldn't shut off, the internet was between 1 Mbps to about 18 ...slow to a crawl, kicking us off....the break shoes he recently changed had this horrible burning smell the whole drive ... kids fighting more than normal ... it's been raining almost non stop -so we missed some of the activities we were wanting to do - we didn't cover our wood pile...there goes our campfire & smores... they never caught one fish/ lots of sea weed..kid got a hook in his foot being barefoot.
> 
> I admired my husband ...watching him go from one fishing pole to the next, tangles & all (such patience -and he 's through it all)....with the little one throwing his hands up in the air saying "This is boring dude".... oh well... we just kinda laugh about it...I told him what a great dad he was...and joked if that was me, I'd want to throw those fishing poles in the middle of the lake.
> 
> Most of our vacations are go very smoothly....our attitude is...this has to happen once in awhile! Thank God we made it here alive, the lightning didn't take our electric... the raccoon I seen scurry off the porch didn't bite my leg .... we still had lots of laughs, some great conversations with our teens... it was a great time/ good memories.


Did you have sex? Just joking.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

AlphaProvider said:


> Did you have sex? Just joking.


Every vacation some of that is going on... Just this morning.. kids pounding on the door to get into our bathroom and I yelled to go use their brothers.. we kept going...pretty used to this sort of thing. Ha ha 

We wanted to stay here & swim some more...but it is pouring...again.... so plans change, time to go visit a Cavern...even though we didn't pack any jackets !


----------



## AlphaProvider

SimplyAmorous said:


> Every vacation some of that is going on... Just this morning.. kids pounding on the door to get into our bathroom and I yelled to go use their brothers.. we kept going...pretty used to this sort of thing. Ha ha
> 
> We wanted to stay here & swim some more...but it is pouring...again.... so plans change, time to go visit a Cavern...even though we didn't pack any jackets !


That's the best kind. A quickie in the bathroom at a house party or something...


----------



## Wiserforit

Real-life high maintenance girl - 

Has a house party. Every person is told a different time, and nobody is told an exact time. 

Tells my wife "after noon". Another "one or two". A third is not getting off work until 2:30 pm and the host knows that because the host is going to pick the girl up after work for some weird reason and bring her to the party. 

So the host is not even there until close to 3 pm. We called to say we were on our way at about noon, the host is not even in the house and the husband is frantic because we've been invited specifically to eat and he has some empathy for people waiting three hours past the time they were told they were going to be fed. My wife asks me as we are preparing what "after noon" means. I didn't even understand the question because it is self-explanatory. But not as a time that an event starts. So I said you better call, and we got the husband up out of bed from having been working all night. 

So the host is the last to arrive at her own party, and yes - making an "entrance" with extreme attention to her high heels and outfit. Good God is she LOUD, and most of what comes out is complaining about mosquitos, cold, and the physical labor you have to put out to live in Alaska. 

You can say this is "alpha". But it is just imposing upon other people. So now we know. Just dealing with this person, even something so basic as what time an event starts is going to be drama and imposition.


----------



## always_alone

hambone said:


> .
> 
> My only conclusion is that they must have some tremendous hidden talent!!! IE... in the bedroom...


I've seen high-maintenance women wrap men around their little fingers without even doling out sex. I can think of two offhand, and both of them always had a swarm of men circling, running errands, catering to whims, paying bills, buying gifts -- you name it. And neither one of them actually slept with most of these guys, just held out the promise that it could maybe happen some day if they were good boys and did her a wee favour.

Honestly, I have no idea how either one of them did it. I didn't even think they were all that hot -- but then I'm a woman and can't judge these things. I'm told they had "sexual body language".

Have to say, I lost a lot of respect for those men, though, watching them jump through flaming hoops of fire only to be treated badly, then complaining that woman are so demanding and going back for more.


----------



## AlphaProvider

I didnt' know anything about high maintenance until one of my ex's switched up the game on me. For years I had been able to lay back and get sex when I feel like it.

I heard complaints from my uncle about the man always pays, whether it's with cash, services, or stress. This sounded crazy to me, even though I was a provider, I had never dealt with the head games that can be a result of dealing with a high maintenance chick.

So the ex turned on me, decided she was running against me. So the head games started up. The games never stopped by the way, the more she did them the more she did them...

So, time is going by, and I figure that's what my uncle was talking about. Of course I was hoping the maintenance bit would drop, and return to parity. It did not of course.

We got to a definitive point in the relation where the sex could not outweight the games, and then we burned my love down to a black piece of coal... And I knew it was time to leave, lol.

So that was my lesson on maintenance.


----------



## Suspecting

Enginerd said:


> A high maintenance women is not an equal marriage partner. She is someone who demands to be put on a pedastal and given special treatment regardless of the circumstances. She is a liability in a life long partnership. I think this is different from an Alpha female because I have known many high maintenance women who needed a ton of attention due to their insecurities.
> 
> Alpha females don't always need a man and typically act independently. They seem to know what they want and aggressively go after it. I think it might be difficult to stay married to an Alpha because she could eventually lose respect for you if you don't bring your A game. I suppose bringing your A game all the time could be considered high maintenance. IMO it would get old constantly trying to impress an Alpha. What's the reward?


Interesting viewpoint. If we reverse the genders don't you think the same applies to alpha men too? Otherwise it sounds like a double standard or perhaps some insecurity towards strong women.


----------



## Wiserforit

Giving someone the idea you want to have sex with them is extremely simple. All of us can be sexually coy with our partner. So we can all do it. 

It's just that most of us have scruples, and would not be sexually coy with others to manipulate them. So what these girls have isn't skill. It's bad character. That's why I lose respect too for guys that fall all over themselves taking the bait.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Wiserforit said:


> Giving someone the idea you want to have sex with them is extremely simple. All of us can be sexually coy with our partner. So we can all do it.
> 
> It's just that most of us have scruples, and would not be sexually coy with others to manipulate them. So what these girls have isn't skill. It's bad character. That's why I lose respect too for guys that fall all over themselves taking the bait.


Rewarding bad character...


----------



## Created2Write

I asked my husband if he thought I was high maintenance and he said emphatically, "No!" I asked, why not? He said, "You're not in constant need to be the center of attention, you're not a drama queen, you don't pout when you don't get your way, you're not a nag, and you actually give a crap about the people around you." 

I agree with him, that I'm not high maintenance, but I'm not low maintenance either. There are certain things that I need from my mate and I won't sugar coat my disappointment if those things are neglected. I am very emotional and I am sensitive. I can go with the flow, but usually not without saying _something_ about not liking plans changed. So, while I don't need to be catered to or anything, I do still want my husband to consider my feelings before jumping to make decisions. 

My brother...now there is a very high maintenance person.


----------



## Caribbean Man

always_alone said:


> I've seen high-maintenance women wrap men around their little fingers without even doling out sex. I can think of two offhand, and both of them always had a swarm of men circling, running errands, catering to whims, paying bills, buying gifts -- you name it. And neither one of them actually slept with most of these guys, just held out the promise that it could maybe happen some day if they were good boys and did her a wee favour.
> 
> Honestly, I have no idea how either one of them did it. I didn't even think they were all that hot -- but then I'm a woman and can't judge these things. I'm told they had "sexual body language".
> 
> Have to say, I lost a lot of respect for those men, though, watching them jump through flaming hoops of fire only to be treated badly, then complaining that woman are so demanding and going back for more.


I've seen this at work and it is very simple.
What those type of women do is project the idea of sex to weak , insecure , inexperienced men.
Men who are good providers but afraid to challenge women.
They always put their personal feelings last and the woman's 
* happiness * first.
They want to have sex with the woman, the woman knows they are weak and insecure so she continually leads them on.
She loathes them, and laugh at them behind their back.
The idea of sex is the carrot on the stick she dangles in front of them.

Because they are inexperienced with women, she continually tests them and they continually fail.
So she takes their money , while having sex with another man whom she feels deserves it.


----------



## Enginerd

Caribbean Man said:


> I have a different observation.
> I personally know three " Alpha females" who are married with kids, and they are married longer than me.
> One is a high profile, female senior counsel / jurist in the Caribbean region. Her husband is a retired high school teacher.
> 
> The other two are business women who have been married to very simple men for years. One is a self made millionare. I know her personally, she's always in teh newspapers but shields her family from the public. They have two kids, a son and daughter.
> Interestingly the daughter took after her dad. She was quiet and reserved, attended university got her degree and presently working overseas.
> The son however took after the mom. Before he finished high school , he owned a taxi service, shuttling school kids to and from school. He never attended university and today he owns a trucking company, which he built for himself.
> 
> Real Alpha females are an asset to a man once their marriage is a genuine ,good fit.
> His " A game " is him doing his best because she will push him, and has no problem doing so. Its up to him to recognize the game plan.
> 
> A huge part of marriage is creating the perfect balance where both parties feel free to be themselves and together , they excel .



I agree with your point about alpha's . It's about a good match. My Aunt is a successful Alpha and she married a quiet guy who doesn't mind being told what to do all day. I'm not that guy. I do think most Alpha's take longer to find their match.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Caribbean Man said:


> I've seen this at work and it is very simple.
> What those type of women do is project the idea of sex to weak , insecure , inexperienced men.
> Men who are good providers but afraid to challenge women.
> They always put their personal feelings last and the woman's
> * happiness * first.
> They want to have sex with the woman, the woman knows they are weak and insecure so she continually leads them on.
> She loathes them, and laugh at them behind their back.
> The idea of sex is the carrot on the stick she dangles in front of them.
> 
> Because they are inexperienced with women, she continually tests them and they continually fail.
> So she takes their money , while having sex with another man whom she feels deserves it.


The worst of these will always try to one up you and marginalize you. I wouldn't even put my c0ck inside of one.

I guess how the game looks at these, is they'll mess with her.... If she has a husband or a boyfriend, cause then they don't have to worry about all that other stuff cause the boyfriend or husband will absorb it.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Enginerd said:


> I agree with your point about alpha's . It's about a good match. My Aunt is a successful Alpha and she married a quiet guy who doesn't mind being told what to do all day. I'm not that guy. I do think most Alpha's take longer to find their match.


I'm not that guy either. I don't want to boss my female either. I hope I have a female intelligent enough, that respects my mind, and that I respect hers and we collaberate at a level on the upper end of the bell curve.


----------



## Enginerd

AlphaProvider said:


> I'm not that guy either. I don't want to boss my female either. I hope I have a female intelligent enough, that respects my mind, and that I respect hers and we collaberate at a level on the upper end of the bell curve.



The holy grail brother. I missed out on that one.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Enginerd said:


> I agree with your point about alpha's . It's about a good match. My Aunt is a successful Alpha and she married a quiet guy who doesn't mind being told what to do all day. I'm not that guy.* I do think most Alpha's take longer to find their match.*


Yes^^^and sometimes they never find it , but live a fulfilling , contented life anyhow.

My maternal grandmother was head honcho in charge of our family clan. Everyone did as she wished, ut she was a very strong ,focus , determined independent woman.
She had tremendous influence over the community organizations she took part in.
Funny thing was that she never got married. She had all 11 of her kids out of wedlock, which was not socially acceptable back then.
She also owned her property , so she never took sh!t from men.

But whatever she did with her hands always prospered , and people respected her leadership qualities


----------



## Caribbean Man

AlphaProvider said:


> I'm not that guy either. I don't want to boss my female either. I hope I have a female intelligent enough, that respects my mind, and that I respect hers and we collaberate at a level on the upper end of the bell curve.


If you get a woman like that you are set good for life!


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## CLucas976

Im not a guy.

but I think it was nailed on the first page. a high maintenance woman is never satisfied.

I watched a buddy of mine go through this. litteraly women would kill for the treatment and bending over backwards this guy gave, and she was miserable, volatile, demanding, and never satisfied or happy. 

I have never seen anyone get everything they wanted and hate it so much in my life.

all women have demands and needs. I always pictured high maintenance as plastic nacho dorito barbie dolls, and strangely enough being high maintenance and shallow, is deeper than that lol


----------



## AlphaProvider

CLucas976 said:


> Im not a guy.
> 
> but I think it was nailed on the first page. a high maintenance woman is never satisfied.
> 
> I watched a buddy of mine go through this. litteraly women would kill for the treatment and bending over backwards this guy gave, and she was miserable, volatile, demanding, and never satisfied or happy.
> 
> I have never seen anyone get everything they wanted and hate it so much in my life.
> 
> all women have demands and needs. I always pictured high maintenance as plastic nacho dorito barbie dolls, and strangely enough being high maintenance and shallow, is deeper than that lol


That's serious high maintenance, but I know that type. She stay's mad and he keeps trying to please her and get her happy.

I'm pretty sure early on she snared him, and was nice for a short period before she flipped it, and he's continually attempting to recapture the feeling.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Enginerd said:


> The holy grail brother. I missed out on that one.


And she can f0ck you like a monster too. You don't slow her down at all, you make her better, you are part of her program.


----------



## Enginerd

Suspecting said:


> Interesting viewpoint. If we reverse the genders don't you think the same applies to alpha men too? Otherwise it sounds like a double standard or perhaps some insecurity towards strong women.


It's definately true in reverse, but we weren't talking about men so there was no need to clarify. You seem to be a bit sensitive on this for some reason.... 

Strong women can be very sexy, but they're clearly not for everyone. You will rarely see two alpha individuals in a happy marriage. It tends to be a constant power stuggle. Alpha's aren't big on compromise.


----------



## Suspecting

Enginerd said:


> It's definately true in reverse, but we weren't talking about men so there was no need to clarify. You seem to be a bit sensitive on this for some reason....


There's no need to mention the gender if it applies to both. It's only logical.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Enginerd said:


> It's definately true in reverse, but we weren't talking about men so there was no need to clarify. You seem to be a bit sensitive on this for some reason....
> 
> Strong women can be very sexy, but they're clearly not for everyone. You will rarely see two alpha individuals in a happy marriage. It tends to be a constant power stuggle. Alpha's aren't big on compromise.


What I learned was a attractive woman who is actually nice, who treats people sweetly is a huge gushing turnon for me. I've done 19 years of "strong women". Sometimes, you just don't want everything to be so difficult all the time.


----------



## Enginerd

AlphaProvider said:


> What I learned was a attractive woman who is actually nice, who treats people sweetly is a huge gushing turnon for me. I've done 19 years of "strong women". Sometimes, you just don't want everything to be so difficult all the time.


I get a kick out of women that say " You can't handle this" or "Your intimidated by strong women". I've slept with a few Alpha's before I married and liked it, but I knew I'd grow tired of battling with them over the mundain stuff. Great in bed, but not worth the hassel in my opinion. I do not enjoy drama at home.

I had an Alpha friend in HS and we were intensely attracted to each other from day one, but we were always in other relationships. Seven years after HS we ended up working at the same company. We dated a bit and then both came to the conclusion that one night after hot sex we would probably end up killing each other over a cup of coffee or something stupid like that. We broke it off and stayed friendly. We both ended up marrying our polar opposites.


----------



## NextTimeAround

What I find interesting is that men claim that they do not want to date "basket cases" but it appears that between a responsible woman and one that is needy, men seem to step up to the plate for the needy one. That is, providing the transportation, paying for the date, paying for babysitting when it's needed. 

But then you get, "well, I didn't like her all that much" compared to the one he expected to care of herself while dating him. So you don't like someone all that much, but you're willing to put out for her more compared to the one you supposedly like more. It appears to me that neediness seems to get you more.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

love=pain said:


> I am with what I would call a high maintenance woman and I do wish at times she wasn't my take on this;
> 
> High maintenance=
> controlling
> very selfish
> disrespectful
> has to be the center of attention
> everything is about her good or bad
> needs constant praise reassurance of your love
> very jealous of what you do and how you do it
> unforgiving
> seems to demand forgiveness for her sins (they are never as bad as yours ever!)
> Very Vain / low self esteem
> uses sex as a method of control (just because a woman has sex with you all the time doesn't mean she isn't controlling you with it)
> complains about what you don't do or give to her then complains when you meet her demands that it still isn't right
> sees (and reminds you) about your faults while ignoring her own
> also ignores any of your good traits
> 
> One last thing of all the people I know every one who is married to a high maintenance woman has been cheated on by her at least once (at least that they know) and I am included in that group.
> 
> Wow started writing and just kept going but I do have 26 years of experience
> 
> Low maintenance=
> easy going
> accepts your good and bad (helps you overcome the bad and celebrates your good)
> confident (in her body, in her relationships, in who she is)
> will give you everything she has(but never tell you)
> respectful
> 
> I know there are more but I just don't have the experience with this type of woman, the only other thing I have seen is a low maintenance woman generally have a good relationship with her parents and high does not.


Many of the WS described on CWI sound like they might have one or more Personality Disorders (not rare BTW..~ 10% of the population). love=pain, your list of "high maintenance" traits sounds to me more like a list of symptoms of Narcissistic PD, or Histrionic PD maybe. it might benefit many of the BS on TAM to research these (class B) PDs. 

My son was married to someone that, if PDs exist at all, she had one. These are all people unable to establish true intimacy with another person; all writings on the subject tend to stress this. To me that means they are flat out unable to love! not marital love in any case. One cannot remain married to someone like this. Attempting R with this kind of individual, for me, is just plain wrong! These people need to be single, until or unless they embark on several years of tough therapy, which most of them will not do.

something to think about.....


----------



## Enginerd

NextTimeAround said:


> What I find interesting is that men claim that they do not want to date "basket cases" but it appears that between a responsible woman and one that is needy, men seem to step up to the plate for the needy one. That is, providing the transportation, paying for the date, paying for babysitting when it's needed.
> 
> But then you get, "well, I didn't like her all that much" compared to the one he expected to care of herself while dating him. So you don't like someone all that much, but you're willing to put out for her more compared to the one you supposedly like more. It appears to me that neediness seems to get you more.



No doubt this is true. Men want to be needed and feel like a "big man" in the eyes of their women. I was this way when I was younger, but now my definition of "a man" is a bit more developed. Sometimes responsible women do not express their need for love or are slow to fall in love because they are happy with themselves. Some men will see this as a lack of interest or standoffish. I think finding a women who is responsible and is still in touch with her feminine side is the ideal.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Therealbrighteyes said:


> This is the greatest thread ever in the history of TAM. My God did it expose douche bags. I love my husband even more after reading this nauseating thread.


It sounded like men saying they would prefer women who are nicer to them, and treat them better versus some unchangeable boundary, self centered person who is nearly impossible to deal with.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> She can kill with a smile
> She can wound with her eyes
> She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
> And she only reveals what she wants you to see
> She hides like a child,
> But she's always a woman to me
> 
> She can lead you to love
> She can take you or leave you
> She can ask for the truth
> But she'll never believe you
> And she'll take what you give her, as long as it's free
> Yeah, she steals like a thief
> But she's always a woman to me
> 
> Oh--she takes care of herself
> She can wait if she wants
> She's ahead of her time
> Oh--and she never gives out
> And she never gives in
> She just changes her mind
> 
> And she'll promise you more
> Than the Garden of Eden
> Then she'll carelessly cut you
> And laugh while you're bleedin'
> But she'll bring out the best
> And the worst you can be
> Blame it all on yourself
> Cause she's always a woman to me


Jon loves this song. Maybe that is why our relationship is [email protected] up. On the inverse I love NIN Head Like A Hole. That said, we have screwed more in these 2 months than we have in 5 years, oddly to those songs among many.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

AlphaProvider said:


> It sounded like men saying they would prefer women who are nicer to them, and treat them better versus some unchangeable boundary, self centered person who is nearly impossible to deal with.


I'm just happy I have a husband who is awesome. loves me for the strong ass kicker I am and could care less about labels of alpha, beta, omega or whatever. He rocks.


----------



## ddindiana

:iagree::iagree:


hambone said:


> To me, it means that they are selfish. It's all about me. They spend a ton of money on stuff for them... and want MORE MORE MORE... You can never satisfy them. They are much more concerned about themselves and not so concerned about their husband and kids.
> 
> You pointed out that "they are spending their own money". Well, maybe they are... maybe they aren't. A really high maintance woman will financially break a man unless he is filthy rich. And, they don't care.... It's about ME!
> 
> About spending their own money. Are you saying that it's the husband's responsibility to pay for food, clothing, shelter, utilities, etc. and the wife's money... well... it's HER money.. after all, she did earn it! Is that correct?
> 
> High maintance women are never satisfied...


High maintance women are very selfish!! and want that attention from other males, and high maintance women are never happy.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Caribbean Man said:


> I've seen this at work and it is very simple.
> What those type of women do is project the idea of sex to weak , insecure , inexperienced men.
> Men who are good providers but afraid to challenge women.
> They always put their personal feelings last and the woman's
> * happiness * first.
> *They want to have sex with the woman, the woman knows they are weak and insecure so she continually leads them on.
> She loathes them, and laugh at them behind their back.
> The idea of sex is the carrot on the stick she dangles in front of them.*
> 
> *Because they are inexperienced with women, she continually tests them and they continually fail.
> So she takes their money , while having sex with another man whom she feels deserves it*.


I abhore women like you just described here...If I was sitting in a room where women was making fun of men like this, I would take their Fu**ing heads off... 

I would not demean men like this, so what if they are not the alphas beaming with confidence...but doing their best to treat a woman right, so what if she is prettier and he thinks she is a catch...he is using what he feels he has to offer her...it's no damn crime.... I see her as the Manipulator, some of what you said here stomps on my dear husband again, but what the F... I'll get over it. 

He's never been much of a challenger, I am the more challenging ....and he has always put my happiness above his own..... I don't think he is an a$$-hole for this ..

I would not use these type of men.... If I was single, I would not even allow a guy to pay for my dinner...unless he insisted...it would NEVER be expected, I would even argue with him about it....especially if I could tell I didn't want to see him again. 

Until I was ready to give something back, I wouldn't use his money, or take advantage of him in any way. My conscience would bother me too much. 

Why can't people treat other people with Respect. Really.


----------



## Wiserforit

nuclearnightmare said:


> your list of "high maintenance" traits sounds to me more like a list of symptoms of Narcissistic PD, or Histrionic PD maybe. it might benefit many of the BS on TAM to research these (class B) PDs.


A key insight, this list of traits and personality disorders. 

It's really easy to see who claims to be "alpha" but is simply a nasty person with one set of disordered tendencies or another.

You aren't automatically a sociopath for leading men on by being sexually coy and laughing at them behind their backs. But you are acting like one. 

When someone is saying, "I'm a narcissist and proud of it", then you get what you deserve for interacting with them.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Enginerd said:


> *No doubt this is true. Men want to be needed and feel like a "big man" in the eyes of their women*. I was this way when I was younger, but now my definition of "a man" is a bit more developed. Sometimes responsible women do not express their need for love or are slow to fall in love because they are happy with themselves. Some men will see this as a lack of interest or standoffish. I think finding a women who is responsible and is still in touch with her feminine side is the ideal.


My husband freely admits he LIKES to be *needed*...I see nothing wrong with this at all... I consider the best of men those who want to Provide and Protect a woman... I like that type. ...but I'm Older Fashioned... I am not the new independent woman who thrives on being single and saying "I Have no need of a man...I can do it all myself". I probably could kick a$$ too -if I had to... I simply wouldn't want to - life would loose it's luster & thrill without some happening ROMANCE. 

I love being attached and entangled with my guy. I guess to each their own. 

When a couple falls in love , something in them should Spring ....a feeling they can't live without the other...we both bring something of value... 

Likewise... I would not want to be with a man that felt he was above saying to his woman >>  once in a while.


----------



## john_lord_b3

SimplyAmorous said:


> I abhore women like you just described here...If I was sitting in a room where women was making fun of men like this, I would take their Fu**ing heads off... I would not demean men like this, so what if they are not the alphas beaming with confidence...but doing their best to treat a woman right, so what if she is prettier and he thinks she is a catch...he is using what he feels he has to offer her...it's no damn crime.... I see her as the Manipulator, some of what you said here stomps on my dear husband again, but what the F... I'll get over it.
> 
> *Why can't people treat other people with Respect. Really.*


:iagree::smthumbup:


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## aston

High Maintenance - Stuck up woman who thinks she defecates ice cream. Wants absolute control over the relationship, especially finances. Mostly a hypocrite that will splurge on herself while ensuring the guy needs her approval to even buy underwear, let alone splurge. Selfish, often looks down on other people and extremely demanding (emotionally, materially and in most ways except sexually). Everything with her has to be a federal case. Won't have a beer, only red wine and it has to be the most expensive one on the menu. Wants to be a stay at home mom but needs 3 maids while she spends time "working" at social functions, fund raising for face time. Seizes every opportunity to point out her husbands limitations and always advising him on how to improve himself. Forget her birthday and you're on the couch for two weeks. Say hello to her female friend (or any female for that matter) and you're explaining why. Can't go out with your guy friends unless she approves of them. She drives the convertible while you're stuck with the minivan her parents passed down to you. I could go on.

LOW Maintenance: She'll beat you at a round of pool while ordering more beer for you and your friends. She'll ask about your friends while ordering concert tickets. If she sees you watching porn she'll make you an even nastier one by herself as a surprise. She likes road trips and just getting up and going. She works and as long as you respect and appreciate her, she will find ways to make your life outside of work easier. She'll tell you if that girl you're eyeballing is cute because she doesn't feel threatened......she's that secure with herself and the relationship. Forget her birthday and she'll remind you.....even if on the couch. Lastly, shopping is her time away and if you're a good sport she'll make it fun and maybe pick you up a thing or two.

My two cents.


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## AlphaProvider

aston said:


> High Maintenance - Stuck up woman who thinks she defecates ice cream. Wants absolute control over the relationship, especially finances. Mostly a hypocrite that will splurge on herself while ensuring the guy needs her approval to even buy underwear, let alone splurge. Selfish, often looks down on other people and extremely demanding (emotionally, materially and in most ways except sexually). Everything with her has to be a federal case.


To obtain any forms of intimacy, would require approval by a panel.



aston said:


> Won't have a beer, only red wine and it has to be the most expensive one on the menu. Wants to be a stay at home mom but needs 3 maids while she spends time "working" at social functions, fund raising for face time. Seizes every opportunity to point out her husbands limitations and always advising him on how to improve himself.


People don't realize this is part of the maintenance. It's about maintaining her image of superiority.



aston said:


> Forget her birthday and you're on the couch for two weeks. Say hello to her female friend (or any female for that matter) and you're explaining why. Can't go out with your guy friends unless she approves of them.


Double standards and hypocricies as the norm.



aston said:


> She drives the convertible while you're stuck with the minivan her parents passed down to you. I could go on.


BTW, your paying for the convertible.



aston said:


> LOW Maintenance: She'll beat you at a round of pool while ordering more beer for you and your friends. She'll ask about your friends while ordering concert tickets.


If she's in the kitchen making herself she'll ask if you want one too.



aston said:


> If she sees you watching porn she'll make you an even nastier one by herself as a surprise.


She'll probably pull your male member out and massage it, taking the attention off the porn and putting it on her.



aston said:


> She likes road trips and just getting up and going.


You can pull over and have sex on the side of the road, and she may put her hand down your pants.



aston said:


> She works and as long as you respect and appreciate her, she will find ways to make your life outside of work easier.


She'll bring you lunch to work, send you flowers.



aston said:


> She'll tell you if that girl you're eyeballing is cute because she doesn't feel threatened......


And you guys will discuss the plusses and minusses of this one, with no insecurity.



aston said:


> she's that secure with herself and the relationship. Forget her birthday and she'll remind you.....even if on the couch.


But you shouldn't forget. You should have had enough taste of HIGH maintenance to appreciate what you have, and to make sure she knows she's appreciated.



aston said:


> Lastly, shopping is her time away and if you're a good sport she'll make it fun and maybe pick you up a thing or two.
> 
> My two cents.


A guy who appreciates what he has would do the same thing too. And the sex life would be incredible, because you respect each other, trust each other and communicate.


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## aston

Can I get an AMEN!


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## love=pain

nuclearnightmare said:


> Many of the WS described on CWI sound like they might have one or more Personality Disorders (not rare BTW..~ 10% of the population). love=pain, your list of "high maintenance" traits sounds to me more like a list of symptoms of Narcissistic PD, or Histrionic PD maybe. it might benefit many of the BS on TAM to research these (class B) PDs.
> 
> My son was married to someone that, if PDs exist at all, she had one. These are all people unable to establish true intimacy with another person; all writings on the subject tend to stress this. To me that means they are flat out unable to love! not marital love in any case. One cannot remain married to someone like this. Attempting R with this kind of individual, for me, is just plain wrong! These people need to be single, until or unless they embark on several years of tough therapy, which most of them will not do.
> 
> something to think about....
> 
> I can't agree more when I read all the posts here 99% of the descriptions of the WS seem to point to a PD. Think about it a person engages in behavior that they know will damage/destroy/hurt someone they claim to love and possibly end a family they helped create. You would hope they have some type if PD, at least it helps you understand their actions. This has definitely made me much more aware of my WS's. PD's and I am learning how to cope and also use them against her so to speak when they come out to control the situation better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion

love=pain said:


> nuclearnightmare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the WS described on CWI sound like they might have one or more Personality Disorders (not rare BTW..~ 10% of the population). love=pain, your list of "high maintenance" traits sounds to me more like a list of symptoms of Narcissistic PD, or Histrionic PD maybe. it might benefit many of the BS on TAM to research these (class B) PDs.
> 
> My son was married to someone that, if PDs exist at all, she had one. These are all people unable to establish true intimacy with another person; all writings on the subject tend to stress this. To me that means they are flat out unable to love! not marital love in any case. One cannot remain married to someone like this. Attempting R with this kind of individual, for me, is just plain wrong! These people need to be single, until or unless they embark on several years of tough therapy, which most of them will not do.
> 
> something to think about....
> 
> I can't agree more when I read all the posts here 99% of the descriptions of the WS seem to point to a PD. Think about it a person engages in behavior that they know will damage/destroy/hurt someone they claim to love and possibly end a family they helped create. You would hope they have some type if PD, at least it helps you understand their actions. This has definitely made me much more aware of my WS's. PD's and I am learning how to cope and also use them against her so to speak when they come out to control the situation better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> What sources do you have for dealing with a PD?
Click to expand...


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## love=pain

treyvion said:


> love=pain said:
> 
> 
> 
> What sources do you have for dealing with a PD?
> 
> 
> 
> I have read several books/articles and what I have taken from most of it is a way to control you or the situation, sort of like a kid throwing a temper tantrum. I have stopped reacting in any way that either reinforces or accepts her behavior. I will either ignore her and just keep going and she can go along or not her choice or I have started to call her out some.
> What I mean is when she says or does something passive/agressive or narcissistic I tell her what I dont agree with or how silly her behaviour is right away (I dont Argue or start one) and that I do not accept it end of story. It is then her choice to stop or change her actions.
> Case in point I am watching t.v. and she walks up and says "you look like you dont want to be here anymore" instead of trying to console her or reassure her I flat out said you are wrong how can you tell something like that I am just watching t.v, I didnt keep going just left it at that. She was quiet sat down next to me and we had a normal conversation about dinner plans.
> I wont allow her to control my life with her behaviour any more and feed her PD's whether it works and we continue or she has to find someone else to control is her choice.
Click to expand...


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## Caribbean Man

SimplyAmorous said:


> Why can't people treat other people with Respect. Really.


Well SA,
That is the billion dollar question.

Respect makes or breaks a relationship.
Be it business , politics, family , neighbours, friends and yes, intimate relationships.

A lot of times people try to substitute power for respect and expect to get genuine love and devotion in return.
They don't understand that power is like sand, the tighter you hold on to it the faster it slips out of your hand.


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## treyvion

Caribbean Man said:


> Well SA,
> That is the billion dollar question.
> 
> Respect makes or breaks a relationship.
> Be it business , politics, family , neighbours, friends and yes, intimate relationships.
> 
> A lot of times people try to substitute power for respect and expect to get genuine love and devotion in return.
> They don't understand that power is like sand, the tighter you hold on to it the faster it slips out of your hand.


How do power and love play together? It can't always be love because things need to get done...


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## NextTimeAround

SimplyAmorous said:


> Why can't people treat other people with Respect. Really.


I used to think that respect was automatic unless I was doing something wrong. Glad I finally got over that fallacy.


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## SimplyAmorous

> *NextTimeAround said*: I used to think that respect was automatic unless I was doing something wrong. Glad I finally got over that fallacy.


 I feel if you are acting with respect....showing decent character to another...as many good men do...you DO deserve respect in return...doesn't mean you will get it ... not with many in this world today! This subject is about High Maintenance women...

Unfortunately - some men allow themselves to be *used* and *abused* by such women, especially if they are HOT .....why do they do this ...they are just enabling such women....dump these broads with the waving 's of manipulative "ME ME ME" behavior....but I still feel women are more the monsters in this ... that's just my view... 

Just like if an Abusive man treats his woman like he is King, she has no say, she owes him & needs to kiss the ground he walks on... he is More the monster over her, even if she is foolish to stay, lacks confidence in herself...when someone acts in a manner of demeaning everyone around them, it speaks MORE about their character than the one who is being taken advantage of & being kind in return. 

My moral compass is to treat others like I want to be treated...if I miss it (and we all do at times)... I'll apologize...make it right... if I continue in it.. shame the hell on me! 

All of us should be weary of selfish, manipulative liars who are out to TAKE TAKE TAKE from us...while we are left scrambling for crumbs in return....this is trampling on Respect in every way. It sucks we have to stand up & be a selfish Mother in return, throw consequences & boundaries in their face - to get the balance back.... Such is life I guess with some , if you don't want treated like a dog. 



Caribbean Man said:


> Well SA,
> That is the billion dollar question.
> 
> *Respect makes or breaks a relationship.*
> Be it business , politics, family , neighbours, friends and yes, intimate relationships.


Some Urban Dictionary thoughts on  RESPECT ...how true it is ...



> *1. *A quality seriously lacking in today's society.
> 
> *2. *It means valuing each others points of views. It means being open to being wrong. It means accepting people as they are. It means not dumping on someone because you're having a bad day. It means being polite and kind always, because being kind to people is not negotiable. It means not dissing people because they're different to you. It means not gossiping about people or spreading lies.
> 
> *3. *Something everyone expects, but has no willingness to show.
> 
> *4.* To treat people in the manner in which you expect to be treated. To show consideration for another person's feelings and interests. An attitude demonstrating that you value another person. You should treat your friends with respect.
> 
> *5.* A word synonymous with acknowledgment, recognition, and consideration.
> 
> *6*. Noun: A value that once thrived but has nearly been eradicated in the name of free speech and expressing one’s self. Back when respect ran rampant people would keep their mouths shut if they didn’t have something intelligent to say but sadly today most people choose to express their “beliefs” even when they don’t have anything of value to say. Often disrespectful people make up for the lack of intelligence by resorting to juvenile statements such as “he/she sucks”, “he/she’s a tool” or what is ironically the all time favorite of the disrespectful, “He/she/you are an idiot”. The term “idiot” is often also used by the disrespectful to label anyone who disagrees with them especially if that person can actually speak intelligently on the subject or person being discussed.
> 
> *7. *
> Acknowledgent and appreciation of anothers abilities


I guess in my view....everyone has a place, has value and some abilities...even if they have been out-casted and not been encouraged to believe in themselves by others along the way. 

I always try to look at one's character....not popularity, success, power or who has the loudest roar... plenty of A-holes have all that going on.


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## Battle_Cats

Trenton said:


> I am considered high maintenance. Deal with it mofo's or don't. This high maintenance woman could care less either way.
> 
> What does that make me? Alpha. That's right biatches. So if you're not Alpha enough to handle an Alpha lady go find yourself a Beta and tell yourself you're in control.
> 
> *Otherwise, all I require is constant attention, reaffirmation and dedication. It's called being human.* Get some.


LOL! No, it's called being high maintenance.


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## treyvion

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion

Battle_Cats said:


> LOL! No, it's called being high maintenance.


By definition is a Alpha lady going to be "handled"?


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## nuclearnightmare

love=pain said:


> I can't agree more when I read all the posts here 99% of the descriptions of the WS seem to point to a PD. Think about it a person engages in behavior that they know will damage/destroy/hurt someone they claim to love and possibly end a family they helped create. You would hope they have some type if PD, at least it helps you understand their actions. This has definitely made me much more aware of my WS's. PD's and I am learning how to cope and also use them against her so to speak when they come out to control the situation better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Love=pain:
sorry to not respond sooner....I actually forgot that this thread is NOT in CWI
:lol:

anyway I've read your other threads describing your history and situation with your wife. You sound like you are seeing her more clearly, month by month. I think you really need to think seriously about divorcing her....though perhaps you are doing just that. The level of contempt you have for her is appropriate but not conducive to marital happiness, in the long run. If you free yourself from her you'll be able to find someone that you love AND that loves you back. When you find such a person you'll immediately see how different real love is from the "love" your current wife offers you. anyway...just my opinion of course, but a strongly held one, from what you have described on TAM.


the above was a slight thread-jack..sorry.......but back on topic:
"personality disorder" in this context is essentially a clinical term for someone who is - more bluntly speaking - of poor character; all the way to individuals that are essentially evil in all aspects of life. what I find interesting is that the 'alpha' women being described here are often perfect examples of histrionic personality disordered (HPD) people. what's more many of the web definitions for 'alpha' males - including many referenced on TAM - necessarily mean that PURE alpha men are best represented by many in the prison population. Exceeded only by world-class alphas like Genghis Kahn, Julius Caesar, Joseph Stalin etc. i.e. many psychopaths would score very well on the alpha criteria. Abraham Lincoln on the other hand(US history reference) - often depressed, not very good looking etc. - might not score well at all. Moreover one can find serious articles/studies on the propensity for male psychopaths to produce _female_ offspring that are HPDs. Alpha fathers have alpha daughters! God help us!! 


you can see where I'm going with this. other posters are approaching from a different angle, but saying esentially the same thing. That no man or woman should aspire to be a strong (or pure) "alpha." in fact I think the whole phenomonolgy is bit 'pop-psychish' and breaks down when applied to human beings. It may be meaningful for gorillas, wolves, lions etc. --- ala the "alpha male" of the group. But humans are governed *strongly* by rational thought, even as the irrational (primitive, instinctual, animal) exerts its strong pull as well. e.g. most spouses do NOT cheat, husbands or wives (sorry guys....I still say the most credible data and studies conclude that......am talking physical cheating). So in that case the higher level values defeat the lower level drives.......in the end!


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## Wiserforit

High maintenance girl buys pre-ripped jeans at the store for $150 a pair, but would never in her lifetime do the kind of work that would rip pants.

We know one. And the irony is she's a foreign bride. This old farm boy immigrated a city girl. Really high heels, the pre-ripped jeans. Wears sunglasses inside. Won't do any kind of physical labor. Drinks too much. And yes, she's talking feminist memes right out of the gate. 

You retard, you brought sand to the beach. WTF was he thinking?


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## treyvion

Wiserforit said:


> High maintenance girl buys pre-ripped jeans at the store for $150 a pair, but would never in her lifetime do the kind of work that would rip pants.
> 
> We know one. And the irony is she's a foreign bride. This old farm boy immigrated a city girl. Really high heels, the pre-ripped jeans. Wears sunglasses inside. Won't do any kind of physical labor. Drinks too much. And yes, she's talking feminist memes right out of the gate.
> 
> You retard, you brought sand to the beach. WTF was he thinking?


Is this a russian bride one of your friends lassoed?


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## Wiserforit

treyvion said:


> Is this a russian bride one of your friends lassoed?


Nope. Filipina. 

Definitely a case of a guy selling himself short just because she is young. She's told him that: You have to put up with me because I am younger. Pffft. Oh really?

Younger than him, sure but not in comparison to the average fiance visa applicant from the Philippines. She's almost 30. I don't know her that well but she has all the look of a trade girl. Nothing against that sort of thing, but a guy needs to have his eyes open about it. 

But again, this is a farm boy in over his head and not thinking with the right piece of equipment.


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## hambone

Caribbean Man said:


> Well SA,
> That is the billion dollar question.
> 
> Respect makes or breaks a relationship.
> Be it business , politics, family , neighbours, friends and yes, intimate relationships.
> 
> A lot of times people try to substitute power for respect and expect to get genuine love and devotion in return.
> They don't understand that power is like sand, the tighter you hold on to it the faster it slips out of your hand.


One of the first things I look for in a couple.. is mutual respect. If they don't have it.. It's a bad sign..

I look for it in a couple that's getting married. One of my pet peeves is when couples smear the wedding cake in each other's faces. That symbolizes a lack of mutual respect. You just don't do that to someone you love in public...


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## treyvion

hambone said:


> One of the first things I look for in a couple.. is mutual respect. If they don't have it.. It's a bad sign..
> 
> I look for it in a couple that's getting married. One of my pet peeves is when couples smear the wedding cake in each other's faces. That symbolizes a lack of mutual respect. You just don't do that to someone you love in public...


It's done to be funny.


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## love=pain

nuclearnightmare said:


> Love=pain:
> sorry to not respond sooner....I actually forgot that this thread is NOT in CWI
> :lol:
> 
> anyway I've read your other threads describing your history and situation with your wife. You sound like you are seeing her more clearly, month by month. I think you really need to think seriously about divorcing her....though perhaps you are doing just that. The level of contempt you have for her is appropriate but not conducive to marital happiness, in the long run. If you free yourself from her you'll be able to find someone that you love AND that loves you back. When you find such a person you'll immediately see how different real love is from the "love" your current wife offers you. anyway...just my opinion of course, but a strongly held one, from what you have described on TAM.


+
+Thanks for the thoughts, I also have read many threads here and I think many of the BS have the same contempt for their WS. It is a daily struggle in an R as your feelings sway back and forth a bit, but the good days out number the bad and as people here say it is a time thing that will hopefully heal.

That said I am not going to far one way or another, if it is wasted time then it is my wasted time and I am the one who will suffer so no big deal.


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## bubbly girl

As a waitress I meet all sorts of people, but when a high maintenance woman walks into the diningroom I can spot her right away.

She takes care of herself very well physically (hair, clothes, nails, etc.). I wouldn't call every woman who is very concerned with her appearance as high maintenance...I've met many lovely beautiful ladies with friendly personalities. But these high maintenance women have the unfriendliest personalities (at least to a mere waitress who is beneath them).

They never crack a smile while I'm standing there (even if they were just laughing with their girlfriend), are usually a pain in the butt wanting to modify everything in the meal, and will often not even acknowledge me when I speak to them. They complain about everything, are needy and constantly run me back and forth getting them everything under the sun, never or rarely say thank you, and it is always a guarantee that no matter how good the service was that they'll leave a lousy tip.

They are indeed needy, selfish and never satisfied.


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## FUEGO

High maintenance to me is when a female has to have the most expensive everything and must dine in the most expensive place.


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## Wiserforit

bubbly girl said:


> As a waitress I meet all sorts of people, but when a high maintenance woman walks into the diningroom I can spot her right away.
> 
> She takes care of herself very well physically (hair, clothes, nails, etc.). I wouldn't call every woman who is very concerned with her appearance as high maintenance...I've met many lovely beautiful ladies with friendly personalities. But these high maintenance women have the unfriendliest personalities (at least to a mere waitress who is beneath them).
> 
> They never crack a smile while I'm standing there (even if they were just laughing with their girlfriend), are usually a pain in the butt wanting to modify everything in the meal, and will often not even acknowledge me when I speak to them. They complain about everything, are needy and constantly run me back and forth getting them everything under the sun, never or rarely say thank you, and it is always a guarantee that no matter how good the service was that they'll leave a lousy tip.
> 
> They are indeed needy, selfish and never satisfied.


Great observations.


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## jmp2204

viseral said:


> i'd describe a high maintenance woman as needing constant attention. While it may be endearing at times it can also be a huge pita.
> 
> I have a buddy who's married to a high maintenance woman. She's kinda hot, and i can imagine the sex must be pretty good, but dang, that woman never shuts up, always turning every little thing into a giant hassle, nags and complains all the time, can be very insulting, always wants to talk about her feelings, gets into fights regularly, you just can't relax around her. It's like she has a need to have drama all the time.
> 
> I've come to appreciate her more over the years, but dang, sometimes you wish you could point the remote control at her and hit the mute button.


that is the definition of high maintenance


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## ralph99

Runs like Dog said:


> High maintenance is ingratitude, whiny, high strung, obsessive, critical, scolding, passive aggressive, paranoid, childish, selfish and just plain mean.
> 
> Low maintenance is not that.


Well said... a no win situation. High maintenance puts you in a position that you can never make her happy no matter how hard you try.


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## treyvion

jmp2204 said:


> that is the definition of high maintenance


Yeah, but why must the sex be good? It may not be worth the trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby

treyvion said:


> Yeah, but why must the sex be good? It may not be worth the trouble.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now your mixing up high maintenance with crazy.

Crazy women are great in bed. High Maintenance generally can't be bothered. You might mess up her hair. LOL

Seriously though.

My perception of High Maintenance is just that, requires a lot of work. It's not that they take care of themselves, it's that they put EXTRA effort to be better than the next woman. They are unrealistic with their demands. They are never fully satisfied with what you do. Everything centers around them, my wife has a high maintenance friend and she pisses me off. My wife might be telling her something very important to my wife and the next thing out of this woman's mouth is twisting the topic into something about her. Great friend there. They are require a lot of work. Everything in life is about them.

Low maintenance is a woman who is generally more content in her own skin. Rolls with things better. Can have normal level conversations without turning EVERYTHING into something about her. They can spend time cleaning up nice and look like the belle of the ball but can also throw on a pair of jeans, a t-shirt and a cute baseball cap. They're not afraid to get their hands dirty and they look at relationships from both the give and take aspects.


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## hambone

bubbly girl said:


> As a waitress I meet all sorts of people, but when a high maintenance woman walks into the diningroom I can spot her right away.
> 
> She takes care of herself very well physically (hair, clothes, nails, etc.). I wouldn't call every woman who is very concerned with her appearance as high maintenance...I've met many lovely beautiful ladies with friendly personalities. But these high maintenance women have the unfriendliest personalities (at least to a mere waitress who is beneath them).
> 
> They never crack a smile while I'm standing there (even if they were just laughing with their girlfriend), are usually a pain in the butt wanting to modify everything in the meal, and will often not even acknowledge me when I speak to them. They complain about everything, are needy and constantly run me back and forth getting them everything under the sun, never or rarely say thank you, and it is always a guarantee that no matter how good the service was that they'll leave a lousy tip.
> 
> They are indeed needy, selfish and never satisfied.


IMO, Bubbly nailed it...


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## NextTimeAround

Dad&Hubby said:


> Now your mixing up high maintenance with crazy.
> 
> Crazy women are great in bed. High Maintenance generally can't be bothered. You might mess up her hair. LOL
> 
> Seriously though.
> 
> My perception of High Maintenance is just that, requires a lot of work. It's not that they take care of themselves, it's that they put EXTRA effort to be better than the next woman. They are unrealistic with their demands. They are never fully satisfied with what you do. Everything centers around them, my wife has a high maintenance friend and she pisses me off. My wife might be telling her something very important to my wife and the next thing out of this woman's mouth is twisting the topic into something about her. Great friend there. They are require a lot of work. Everything in life is about them.
> 
> *Low maintenance is a woman who is generally more content in her own skin. Rolls with things better. Can have normal level conversations without turning EVERYTHING into something about her.* They can spend time cleaning up nice and look like the belle of the ball but can also throw on a pair of jeans, a t-shirt and a cute baseball cap. They're not afraid to get their hands dirty and they look at relationships from both the give and take aspects.



Yeah, ok, but it doesn't mean that us low maintenance women will get our due.

How many times has a guy thought "oh yeah, I better pay, because I don't see her that often......"

1. I better offer her transportation or else she may not show up. (my fiance had one of those moments. At a time when I was paying for my own public transportation, i can see in a text message that he offered taxi fare to his EA.

2. How often do men look at women who are keeping it together and think that they have nothing more to do. But are only too happy to help pay for things for another woman who gives the appearance that she simply won't pay.

When I was at university, I dated a guy who told me he was coming off a relationship with a woman who had 3 kids and then cheated on him. He let her have use of his car. And then expected use of my car....... I did finally find a back bone, ie, I am not responsible for other women's children (no matter how they are connected to me).


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## beachbabe

Being high maintenance and LOOKING high maintenance is what I try to work on. I 'look' HM but I'm an easy keeper...except when I PMS!!! Then watch out...HM all week!


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## WellyVamp

I haven't posted on here for a long time and it's taken ages to read all the replies. 

After extensive reasearch it appears that high maintenance women (and men) are unreasonable, they play games and are very difficult to please. Possibly with narcissistic traits. 

I like to look groomed, or at least try to. I'm pretty laid back though. I'm a bit like you *beachbabe*. I'm easy going and placid for 3 weeks out of every month and then I turn into a crazy diva the week before my period.


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