# Can you really make it work with a SO that you do not respect intellectually?



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi,



So I've been on this forum for a short time now. I've read many threads. Felt inspiration from many. As well as empathized with many- especially those that I could relate to. I've joined the conversation on a number of threads- and feel now i'm ready to take advantage of the advice TAM has to offer- by giving my current predicament.



My story, just like everyone else's - is long- and I will try to make it as short as possible- and I can length with more details - in response to any questions. 



I will start off with a little background info. Please do not judge me, or think i'm being a snot ball!!



I'm the only daughter of chinese immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself. Education is a HUGE focus in our culture. My parents came to america on my father's school visa- so he could get his MBA (but he later became a computer engineer). My mother, was a doctor. But with no work visa, she had to wait tables, until she got that, in addition to paying off the schooling and licensing she needed to practice medicine (she studied English in high school).



My parents studied and worked hard all their lives and have great jobs. They put me in expensive schools and college- and as a result- I have a good job as well- but only thanks to them. When i was in high school, my parents sent me to a psychiatrist, to administer me the wechsler IQ exam. I scored a 141, and the proctor sent the score to Mensa, who "accepted" me. (my parents only did this, so that they could put that on my college applications). 



I dated many different types of men. Initially, most of these guys were intellectuals. But they were totally pretentious. Any conversations, of friendly debate- would quickly turn into an argument. They would usually make some underhanded cutting remark. The last straw for me, was when I was hired by a firm, which I had spent alot of time gathering references for, applying, not to mention- the amount of time i spent studying in college to get good grades- and spent my summers interning for. All for this moment. And the man i was married to at the moment had the audacity to tell me that I got hired based on my looks. 



So I go thru various serious relationships- and today i'm 28 and with a very very good man. He is kind. So loving. He is well balanced, and gives me my space. He has his friends. He doesn't crowd me. But if he could, he'd be happy to spend every minute with me. I'm stubborn. He's not. If we argue- He will be the one to soften and give in. I need that- bc I'm too bull headed for my own good. And in turn, his good ways- has taught me to now, give in sometimes, and be the first to apologize. (I have apologized plenty of times in the past- they are few in between however- bc I only apologize when i'm sincere and genuinely mean that I will not do it again). 



He wants and has everything a solid marriage is built on. (we are not married). I can speak my insecurities about moving to the next step- and he is patient. He has a good routine. He wakes up everyday at 5am. He is a hard worker, and has had the same job for over a decade. He goes to the gym 5 days a week. When he wanted a promotion at work- he worked on it thru the right avenues, and got it. He is a people person - everyone likes him. not to mention- he is very pleasing on the eyes. 



I go thru my moods- and he puts up with it. There were times that we went for a month without having sex- and he was patient- never lashing out at me- only asking me if there was something wrong. 



Now heres the problem-



He is NOT intelligent- (intelligence- equates to, problem solving skills. Not to be mistaken with being smart. I think he is very smart and knowledgable in many areas.) Lately- I decided to start chatting with him on basic rudimentary information- so that the man i love- I can start respecting more as my intellectual equal. 



So- for the past two weeks- i've asked him over and over these same questions- as well as explained them over and over. Refer to post #70, in the grey- where I answer poster intheory- so that you all can understand the context in which this came about. Also know that he ASKED me to do this. Also know it was once instance- and I stopped right away. 



1) What are the three branches of our government. Recently, he's getting these correct. 2) What makes up the legislative branch. And its blank. I've explained over and over. Its Congress- and they're divided up into the senate and the house of representatives. 



So two minutes later- I will ask him again- and he forgot. I did this about 2 days in a row, and several times- bc I was a little concerned with his short term memory. And every time- he forgot. 



There would be some of the most basic common sense things- like- we've been playing a grocery game similar to the mcdonald's monopoly game. Except this involves about 100 different stickers- with pics of various grocery items on it. I'll get about 12 of these- and it would take him forever to do it. About a month in- I realized- that instead of looking at the number (the game sheet was ordered in 1-100, with pics- and you get the sheet sticks, with pics and the numbers underneath them to make them easier to find on game sheet)- he was looking at pictures. And therefore, some of the pictures were even in correctly matched. 



When i pointed it out to him- he got defensive, and said- he was just doing it the way he wanted to do it. He is not a very defensive person- so for him to do this- I knew he was probably sensitive about a legitimate problem. 



Needless to say- I stopped quizzing him on the two questions- after those several days- bc I knew it was only going to make him uncomfortable. I did not realize until then- that he might have a learning disability. I had many times, given him instructions- and he would nod and then mess it up. 



Yesterday, when we were driving back from somewhere- he noticed i was upset. Which i was. He did another thing that was horribly "un-smart"- so I finally explained why I worried whenever he did these things- that made me question his logic and intellect. 



I want to be serious with you. But how can i, if I don't feel like i could trust my life in your hands? How can I if i don't feel like I could trust my partner to make some big decisions for us. Do i want to have kids with his man? (I already have two). The answer is yes- he has great values that will rub off on our kids- should we have any. But what if he lacks common sense to keep a newborn safe?



What if we decide to go camping (I don't) - and an accident happens, and our cell phones are dead. Does he have the brain capacity to utilize the current resources at hand- and MacGyvers us out of the current predicament?



He is the perfect package- of what I can say thru my experience so far. A heart of gold. But I find myself at a standstill with moving forward bc of my lack of respect for his brain power. Should I just stop wasting his time and let him go? Is it possible for him to change? Should I change and just be okay with it? I'm a festering type of person. Very few things bother me, but the ones that do- if not addressed- will turn into a blowout- and i mean this on a literal and figurative level. Am i just being too picky bc I'm a nerd?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

So is your problem about his common sense, being 'switched on' or his lack of knowledge around politics or topics that you wish to discuss? 

What are your moods about? Why treat a good man that way? 

You don't respect him - that's a problem.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Should I change and just be okay with it? I'm a festering type of person. Very few things bother me, but the ones that do- if not addressed- will turn into a blowout- and i mean this on a literal and figurative level.


How did you get your way as a child?

How do you assert yourself in the workplace?


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## JWTBL (May 28, 2014)

Even though it sounds like he loves you very much and would do anything for you, I feel your lack of stimulating conversation will erode your respect for him over the years. It is hard to disregard our upbringing, and your differing backgrounds, though endearing now, may not work out in the long run. Just the fact that you came to this site shows you have doubts. It also indicates that you care about him a lot and want the relationship to work, but need advice. I doubt he loves you for your intelligence, brain power is probably not that important to him, and never will be. Doesn't make him less of a person, just different than you. 
Just remember, love cannot flourish without respect. I hope you make the right choice and have no regrets with whatever you choose.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

One of the smartest people I have ever known was my grandmother.

She made it to 6th grade, married and expecting at 13. Yes it was during

the Great Depression. Your strength and his definitely appear to be

in different areas. It's not a bad thing. How old is he? I was about

30 before everything "came together." My 2nd love (we dated when 

I was in college and a short time after) came from a family who worked

in the medical field. 2nd love was fifth generation.

She knew a lot more than I did in that field and it was great learning

from her. In the first book (synopsis on my page) of my three book

novel... Cara and Mike meet so he could help her with history and

she help him with English / literature. They begin dating... she goes

away due to scholarship.... long story short...he ended up making a 

living as a writer. Funny how things work out. But every person

brings something to the table. Are you capable of finding a guy who

is more intelligent than he is? Course you could... but what exactly

are you willing to give up....to get that?


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

The answer to the thread title question is: yes.

You made a particular trade-off, probably a good one in the long run.

If you crave intellectual stimulation there are plenty of other places you can find it.

Instead of quizzing your husband, try becoming his teacher. But be a patient teacher and figure out what he's interested in learning that also interests you.

Consider the reverse: he married you, he must have some interest in the fact that you are smarter than him.

Learn to have fun with your difference. Instead of getting mad at him, tease him in a loving way that shows you are ok with his being slower than you.

On matters where you really don't trust him to do something important, don't leave it to him. (Though I'm skeptical unless he's well below the IQ mean.)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What kind of work does he do? What percentage of your joint income does he earn?

What is his education level as compared to yours?

It sounds to me like he has a lot of emotional intelligence. While we don't take emotional intelligence tests to put on college applications, EI is actually one of the largest predictors of a person's success in life.

There are huge numbers of people with very high IQs and who are very intellectual who cannot function in life... they foundler.

I have an interesting book Emotional Intelligence: by Daniel Goleman. . I think it might help you decide what's important to you and in life.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

141 is not really that 'intellectual' or even intelligent. It's just a measure of how well you did on a test that is known for being biased towards the well off. A group to which you have identified yourself as being a member. My score was higher than that, and my kids (all 3 of them) can run circles around me. 

However, you would probably consider me stupid. 
I'm a fan of just in time learning. 
If I need to know something, then I learn it, usually by briefings, then by trial, then by searching for more knowledge, and then maybe some formal training, etc. and more practice and feedback.
I can't memorize much of anything, and thank goodness for that. I love having the ability to have a blank mind so that things of greater consciousness vs. things of the world have a better chance of finding a home in my thoughts. You wouldn't believe the solutions I've come up with at work because I don't assume to know anything. 

However, I was blessed with a brain injury a few years ago. So I learned about all this other intelligence besides knowledge acquisition based on memory, since at the time I didn't have much short term memory to speak of. It's really amazing in that other world, where you can't rely on memory. Things don't fall apart the way you think they would. 

I did get a lot of my cognitive skills back, but for the most part, I try to encourage the empty brain until and unless I really need to have something in it. I found it really relaxing. 

I'm sure I frustrate a lot of people who think that because I'm measured as 'highly intelligent' or 'gifted' with IQ, that it implies I'm going to be able to match them conversationally on their favorite topic. 

I turn my critical thinking 'off' a lot. I have a switch now. I like it better off, but when I need it to be on, I turn it on. It sounds like yours is always on, so I don't think unless you learn how to turn it off, you can meet your partner where he spends most of his time. 

It's like if you lived 100 miles away or he spoke only Spanish. You would need to drive or learn to speak Spanish. But the way you frame the problem, you want him to do all the driving and translating. That's not a relationship. However, you are right to be concerned.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IcePrincess28,

Do you know 100% of everything that your husband knows? Could you do his job as well as he does?

Are there things that he is interested in that are not and thus he has more knowledge about them?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> *He is the perfect package*- of what I can say thru my experience so far. A heart of gold. But I find myself at a standstill with moving forward bc of* my lack of respect for his brain power*. Should I just stop wasting his time and let him go? Is it possible for him to change? Should I change and just be okay with it? I'm a festering type of person. Very few things bother me, but the ones that do- if not addressed- will turn into a blowout- and i mean this on a literal and figurative level. Am i just being too picky bc I'm a nerd?



a perfect package without brain power? is such combo possible?


Seems to me you dont respect him. That means more conflict in the future.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> So is your problem about his common sense, being 'switched on' or his lack of knowledge around politics or topics that you wish to discuss?
> 
> What are your moods about? Why treat a good man that way?
> 
> You don't respect him - that's a problem.


He lacks, IMO, common sense- as well as an interest in the way the world works. But the latter is a non issue for me. What started as a little project- to see if it could make him have some common interests with me- quickly turned into a realization that he either 1) had short term memory problems, or 2) some other issue that was causing his inability to processretain/absorb information. I have no interests in forcing him to like what i like. regardless of whether he developed like or opposing views of the matter. 

I was diagnosed w/ moderate depression- at a very young age- but I'm pretty sure I have a mild form of bi polar depression instead. I will have mild manic cycles- where I'm just feeling so good- and i'm spending big. Making big plans. Driving myself ragged at work. And then i'm down- down- down. Besides the periods of incessant shopping- he can't tell whats wrong- because when I'm sad- I am very robotic about it- I think I can control it by continuing to be relatively functional- but I can't. It comes out- when I just become very detached and distant. Or when I go all day without texting or communicating with him (we live apart). And if i do, it would be very robotic. 

And besides all that- Its worse than what i'm letting on now. I have issues with showing very much emotion. I'm not an outwardly emotional person. But inside- I am. I'm just not sure how to show it. He knows I mean well- because although i don't remember to hug, hold, and be affectionate towards him- I do alot of actions that show him. I cook him dinner every night we are together (4 out of 7) besides the ones we eat out. I go out of my way to please his mother by helping her when she is hosting a dinner party. I would sit and talk to his grandparents at a family get together- bc they're wonderful souls with incredible stories- stories not enough of the kids care about to listen to. I went w/ my SO to his grandparent's house to move out a couch to make way for his grandpa. And plenty more. I'm not boasting of my character- I just know I have a warm heart- but I'm having all the trouble in the world learning how to exhibit it outwardly. He knows it- he puts up with it. he does patiently ask me to change tho. And change- I am doing. 

Yes- I was always used to getting things my way as a child- but there weren't many things i asked to be my way. There was a circle hierarchy in my family of three growing up. I bossed my mom around, my mom bossed my dad around, and my dad bossed me around. My mom would do anything to spoil me with attention- she was so kind and giving. My dad had my respect- he is the perfect man. Works hard. Is kind. Says few words- but always figure out a way to show me he is proud. I don't want to write a book here- which it seems i'm already doing haha- but just take my word- I really respected my father, and my mother spoiled me rotten. If my mother wanted something done- she asked my father. He would then tell me to do it. And i would. Nothing would hurt me more than to hurt my father's feelings. SO yes- I got most things my way- out of the few things that it was that I wanted. 

I assert myself in the workplace- thru merit of hard work. I'm not a leader nor a follower- rather I do whats asked of me, to best make the team work. If there's something that needs to be done- I will do it. Do i do this for credit? Yes. In my experience- going above and *edit* beyond, and not announcing it- always gets you noticed. I over research everything- so that I can know and understand every angle of my work and project at hand. I usually break ice with people i work with- by having them teach me something- to show i respect their knowledge. Which i bring up- bc it is something I do w/ my SO- to show I respect him. 

Oh- and as to "why treat a good man that way" - I'm not quite sure how to answer that ! being the logical thinker that i hope i am, I was hoping to deductively reason my way to that answer myself!


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> But every person
> 
> brings something to the table. Are you capable of finding a guy who
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head with that. Our compatibility is the glue. Our opposites- are the reasons why we work so well. Granted- its something I value. 

For instance- He is frugal- lives in a small house- that he almost completely owns- btw- work ethic of all those people you admire from the old days. He his a high school degree, then went to trade school to do something in the electrical department (i'm not sure what)- today- he works on all the government buildings - in terms of electrical maintenance. He mades a good but not high income. He does not waste anything. But I whole heartedly do not consider his behavior cheap. I genuinely think he is a conservative and smart spender. I tell him all the time how i wish I could be more like him- and that he needs to help me. 

He is a great influence around my kids. He loves the outdoors. And in this age of technology, tv and video games- that is a great blessing. He is non conflictual. He is very passive. He can listen to me when i'm upset about some co-parenting issues regarding my kids' dad- and he does not fuel my fire. He does not hold vendettas against their dad. He is in every way- a huge support system. 

These are all the things i think about- when I wonder if i'm wasting his time or not.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Thanks for being open and answering my questions. 

I don't have knowledge of bi-polar but there are others here who are certainly able and often willing to shed light from the perspective of the person with bi-polar and the perspective of the spouse. 

When you wrote of the circle of bossiness in your family - and that your father 'bossed' you - I'm wondering if part of your respect for him was because of that? Is there are chance that part of your disrespect with your boyfriend is that he lets your eruptions slide and you feel that you get your way easily?


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> The answer to the thread title question is: yes.
> 
> You made a particular trade-off, probably a good one in the long run.
> 
> ...


Altho i used the word quiz- I did it in a way- where it was in a playful conversation. I always disliked people that acted superior around others (maybe bc subconsciously.... i'm just like that?) - so i really try not to come off as I'm better- bc i'm not. far from it. I may know the answers to those two questions- but theres plenty of other things he knows more than i too. 

So my concern here- is his lack of common sense and perhaps a short term memory. There is something wrong with him. Sometimes- he talks loud- loud in that way- where you know there's an auditory issue.- and i've told him a couple times- to ask his dr. about how he can go about getting his hearing checked. He never reads. Which is understandable- but when he does have to read service manuals and etc- he can't absorb it. He gets very frustrated during tests- but thru his real world experience- he passes. How do i know this- bc he tells me. 

I will give you an example of his lack of deductive reasoning. My younger, who was 1.5 yo at the time- was playing with his giant legos. these giant legos came in a clear cubical hard plastic zipper "bag"- there were 3 large holes, with approx a 2" diameter on the bag- probably as a precaution in case a child put this on their head. 

He's watching him- and i'm cooking. My son walks in with the bag on his head. I laugh and take it off. Later on, I thank him and tell him I thought he did really good w/ him- except for the "bag on baby's head" thing. I said all this jokingly- and truly bc I thought it was funny- he allowed that one thing to happen- that is written as a warning on so many plastic bags. He says- well, there were holes in the bag. And i said, yes- but C is only 1 right now. He might think its okay to put other bags over his head. This wasn't a big deal to me. 

Later on the year- i was in my kid's room, and there was a plastic rod thing stuck into the electric outlet. I pulled it out. And asked my SO if he knew anything about this- he said yes- he was there when my younger stuck it in. But since its plastic- it won't conduct electricity. See- this is where my worries come in.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> Thanks for being open and answering my questions.
> 
> I don't have knowledge of bi-polar but there are others here who are certainly able and often willing to shed light from the perspective of the person with bi-polar and the perspective of the spouse.
> 
> When you wrote of the circle of bossiness in your family - and that your father 'bossed' you - I'm wondering if part of your respect for him was because of that? Is there are chance that part of your disrespect with your boyfriend is that he lets your eruptions slide and you feel that you get your way easily?


When my father bossed me around, it would be, to help him with the groceries, or other chores. to which, i would help him, but hush him away, so he could do more "important" things- and I would do the chores myself. Sometimes he stayed and helped. Othertimes, he left. In my culture, we are supposed to do everything for our parents, and our parents are supposed to live their lives for us (kids). But when it comes to outward show of emotions- well-- thats where the robot comes in.

Thanks all so far for the really insightful questions and responses- i will answer the rest tomorrow- and to earlier poster who asked- my SO is in his mid 30s. Off to bed i go!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've seen you write that you love him? It sounds on paper that he is a really good guy - and based on some of the things you have written, I'm now confused as to whether you respect him or not. 

I do feel compatibility is important - yet if mutual respect is not there, it will lead to all sorts of issues. 
Best wishes to you.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Feeling that you can trust your children with him is a valid concern.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Well- bedtime isn't quite making itself easy for me tonight. so back on here i go. 



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> 141 is not really that 'intellectual' or even intelligent. It's just a measure of how well you did on a test that is known for being biased towards the well off. A group to which you have identified yourself as being a member. My score was higher than that, and my kids (all 3 of them) can run circles around me.



Altho I don't think an IQ test means squat in the real life world- I do have to ask you this- how exactly would you rate 141 on Wechler's bell curve if you just deem it "not really that intellectual or even intelligent. Bc these know it alls at Wechler deem 120 to be the CUSP of genius, of which the top 2% score in, and 141 to be- well, - in short- higher than that. Just curious. 



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> However, you would probably consider me stupid.
> I'm a fan of just in time learning.
> If I need to know something, then I learn it, usually by briefings, then by trial, then by searching for more knowledge, and then maybe some formal training, etc. and more practice and feedback.
> I can't memorize much of anything, and thank goodness for that. I love having the ability to have a blank mind so that things of greater consciousness vs. things of the world have a better chance of finding a home in my thoughts. You wouldn't believe the solutions I've come up with at work because I don't assume to know anything.
> ...


I consider intelligent, intellectuals, and knowledgeable- all completely different things. Just to make it clear- i was not boasting my score as a- HEY Y'ALL, I'm smarty pants here- (and i'm not saying you were implying that- btw) - First off- thank you for your well thought out response- and I'm glad you're dealing with your past injury with optimism.

I consider a high IQ score, as meaning- to have better insight to problem solving/trouble shooting. Whether its finding short cuts to learning something, or short cuts to getting something done faster. This can be taken both literally and figuratively. IMO it has nothing to do with being intelligent. And I could care less about being in Mensa- it was something my parents wanted done when i was 15, to show off to their other over achieving chinese friends- as well as impress the ivy leagues.

IMO, an *intellectual*, is someone that just loves to learn. Which i do. I read books on economics, as well as taught myself how to build an AR-15. I am an avid gun nut. (But the gun laws here aren't making it easy.) I love to read recipe books, auto biographies, history, math, gmat, and gossip magazines. 

In doing so- and being lucky enough (or unlucky enough- however you want to put it- hehe) to attending college- I have become more *knowledgable* in certain areas pertaining to academics, cooking, firearms, as well as the life of the Kardashians. 

The reason why i put in that i got tested into mensa- is bc I am wondering if i'm being too critical in terms of my expectations for the criteria to which i've set for him in terms of common sense. Bc there is no norm- everything is relative. I guess i'm just looking for someone, or enough people to tell me, you're expectations are unrealistic. what you consider is logical, or common sense- is not. He's just being a guy- and they think differently than women. (thats not ALL i'm looking for on here, in terms of answers however.)

But in regards to your blessing a quiet, relaxed brain- your case and his case are not relatable. his mind- might be quiet due to a lack of enough "x" (whatever x might be) running thru it. Yours is more the case of- I know what "noise" feels like- and now its finally good to feel the "quiet." 

My network knows me as quiet, but not shy. I'm a big introvert. With my closest friends- I will blab every now and then. But for the most part- I keep alot to myself. I started journaling at a very young age. I love the output. Its such a release. When i write things out- its a relief. So what may come off to you as a person not being able to let their brain relax- is actually me, in the moments of my "release."


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> What kind of work does he do? What percentage of your joint income does he earn?
> 
> *I make wayyyy more than he does- but money is not a factor in our relationship. We are not married btw. He has a stable job, with good benefits. He hardly uses his sick days. He is a very reliable and responsible person. The difference in our income- is only numbers- bc what can money buy, when we both live comfortably within our relative means? nothing.... (except for investments- but thats another can of worms) - He's not the type of person that could be jealous or feel insecure of my monetary "success" He is not a materialistic person. These are all pieces to the puzzle of why i LOVE him. He does electrical maintenance for a division of government buildings. Currently studying for another promotion. And to answer- level of completed education: High school diploma, trade school for electrical something- *
> 
> ...


Altho alot of these sub paragraphs of my responses are going off on tangents- I really appreciate you all allowing me to blow off steam & emptying my head onto these web pages! Plus- it will be nice to link this thread into my profile signature- when all is said and done- so that people can get an idea of who i am  Moving on-



EleGirl said:


> IcePrincess28,
> 
> Do you know 100% of everything that your husband knows? Could you do his job as well as he does?
> 
> Are there things that he is interested in that are not and thus he has more knowledge about them?


No, I do not know 100% of what he knows, and his work confuses the heck out of me. All those wires-!! However, I do help him with studying for his licensing exams. A lot of them are open book, and usually most of the work lies in the handwritten homework. I have to do his homework. There is NO WAY in heck that he can read thru the books and answer the questions. So what i do, is I type out the homework and answer it in paragraph form, which includes the question. Then i force him to read that- as his study guide. Usually- the homework stuff is the test stuff. 

He is a visual learner- he's better at learning things when he can see them and- when they involve a process. So- he would be less likely to understand, if i drew- Legislative, then a picture of the building of Congress- to which I then divide into two parts- vs - when his instructor- ( he attends classes to better his trade/more licensing & work pays for them as well as pays him ) does visual, on hands, demonstration teaching. 

He is also an artist (or at least, he has an artistic side). He drew out a draft for me to imprint onto a big pumpkin for halloween carving- that was beautiful, detailed, with deliberate, assertive pencil strokes- and the work of someone that was gifted in that area. Made me think right away of someone who was more dominant in the right side brain. (However recent theories regarding right side vs left side brain state that the two must work together in all subject areas- ie. art and math- in order to function. )

Yes, interest has a huge role. If he has interest in something- he is more likely to want to learn about it. So- something that he has no interest in- its almost a nil chance of getting it thru. (i was hoping to spur an interest within him when i asked those two questions- which quickly turned into my realization that he might have some learning disorders). But there are things that he's done around the house- that you would expect him to do flawlessly- and there is either a slight flaw- OR- as you're watching, you're wondering why he did it the "longer" way.

Altho i'm nit picking at his work performance now- I do have to back track and say- he is doing something right- because he's already had one big promotion and studying for another. He is really well liked at work. he actually networked with the supervisor, became work acquaintances w him- to get his current promotion. And of course- he must be doing good work regardless of his people skills- bc you have to have the walk to back that talk.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've seen you write that you *love* him? It sounds on paper that he is a really good guy - and based on some of the things you have written, I'm now confused as to whether you respect him or not.
> 
> I do feel compatibility is important - yet if mutual respect is not there, it will lead to all sorts of issues.
> Best wishes to you.


This just goes to show you all how he feels! You hear me blabbering on here about a bunch all these positive (and the few big negatives) about him- yet I forgot to post in my OP- that yes- i LOVE him. I really want to marry him, and have a family with him. I want us to live together- and never stop laughing at each other's jokes. 



heartsbeating said:


> Feeling that you can trust your children with him is a valid concern.


I trust him in all aspects besides safety of one who is too small to know the difference. So yes- this is huge. I love his influence around my kids- and he would make a great future dad to his own. He's so careful to make sure they don't get hurt- in areas that he can foresee- but I worry as to exactly what it is that he can foresee- and what he can't. My younger is 2.5 almost 3 now, and older one is 4. So i'm much more relaxed now. 

He enjoys being around them. He plays with them, interacts alot with them, holds the younger, and high fives my older all the time. He thinks of ways to engage with them, that i don't. 

They love him, and enjoy him more than they enjoy me. Which i love. My heart pains for my children everyday bc I worry i'm not exhibiting enough physical outward affection. I remind myself often, and do it like a robot. Seeing the comfort/happiness/security in their face when i do so, reinforces me to program my internal alarm for the next hug. Horrible- but true. This is why my SO is a saint for putting up with me. But trust me TAM, i'm TRYING here. 

Again- sorry for all the tangents and anecdotal narratives!


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

It doesn't take a genius to learn the structure of government (see politicians). So in my opinion, it isn't that he's stupid, it's that the subject matter doesn't interest him. 

I'd also say that if he's truly as dumb as a bag of hammers, and that's a deal breaker, then it's time to move on. 

Personally though, it's probably more than he's just not as interested in intellectual pursuits. That doesn't make him stupid though. 

I consider IQ tests to be a dubious meter of intelligence. Regardless, even if he's got an IQ of say, 110, and you're around 140 that's within spitting distance from what i've seen. In other words, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to hold a conversation with you. That is of course, assuming he finds the subject matter agreeable. 

That's all a round about way of saying that maybe he doesn't retain the information because he's not interested in talking about it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> This just goes to show you all how he feels! You hear me blabbering on here about a bunch all these positive (and the few big negatives) about him- yet I forgot to post in my OP- that yes- *i LOVE him. I really want to marry him, and have a family with him. I want us to live together- and never stop laughing at each other's jokes. *


OP,

Sometimes in situations like this,you just have to go with your gut feeling.

It all comes down to what matters most to you. If you feel that you need that type of intellectual stimulation in order to feel prolonged attraction too him , sexual and otherwise , then imo , the relationship wouldn't work in the long run because that part of you wouldn't be fulfilled.

Better to be single and happy than married and unfulfilled.

However, long term relationships often involve compromise. Sometimes big ones , sometimes small ones.

You already know that his interested doesn't lie in current affairs,politics , activism ,philosophical musings and so forth.

It's a hard pill to swallow, a " _catch 22_" situation.

But it all comes down to what you are prepared to either live with or, live without.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

okay first off...its "Wechsler".

Second...until you learn to accept people for what they are as a total package, this will be a hardship for you.

This is a classic Sneetch problem.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sounds deeper than intellectual difference. Sounds like you don't respect him. That is the real problem here and if married and you continue on my bet is that lack of respect will become greater. If he ever does decide that your quizzing and critical evaluation of him isn't cute anymore or decides it's insulting this relationship is headed in for a quick stop.

Not to say that you are necessarily wrong. Everyone has their things they want in a relationship and we should all hold our wants and values close in decididng who we take in our lives. However being with someone who doesn't match up and constantly wishing they would isn't fair to the other party either.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> okay first off...its "Wechsler".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My apologies for misspelling a test that I took 13 years ago when I was 15. 

And I won't accept people for a total package unless I figure out what I'm willing to compromise without feelings of future resentment. He is a good man and I don't want to waste his time unnecessarily.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

IcePrincess28 said:


> My apologies for misspelling a test that I took 13 years ago when I was 15.


Good. Don't let it happen the next time you bring it up while showing off what a prodigious prodigy you are.



It sounds like you're aware of the ways that he's different, the ways that he brings things to the partnership that you don't. I'm not going say 'opposites attract', but rather that you want someone who complements you, who comes with something you can't find anywhere else.

There must be things he does that make you respect him, even if his intellect doesn't match yours. If he is in second place for practically everything, then I would share your concerns he's not the one. However, what you say about how he handles the kids, as well as the fact that he is healthy, active and good at his job - it sounds like he has a lot of good qualities, not even mentioning whatever it is that makes you want to marry him!

I'm not saying you need to settle for second best, but you do need to think about whether differing interests (as others have said this might well amount to) is a deal breaker for someone you care enough about to post here asking for advice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Altho i used the word quiz- I did it in a way- where it was in a playful conversation. I always disliked people that acted superior around others (maybe bc subconsciously.... i'm just like that?) - so i really try not to come off as I'm better- bc i'm not. far from it. I may know the answers to those two questions- but theres plenty of other things he knows more than i too.
> 
> So my concern here- is his lack of common sense and perhaps a short term memory. There is something wrong with him. Sometimes- he talks loud- loud in that way- where you know there's an auditory issue.- and i've told him a couple times- to ask his dr. about how he can go about getting his hearing checked. He never reads. Which is understandable- but when he does have to read service manuals and etc- he can't absorb it. He gets very frustrated during tests- but thru his real world experience- he passes. How do i know this- bc he tells me.
> 
> ...



Yes I get what you are saying... but

Ok so why did your son have access to plastic bags anyway? The legos should have been put in something safer to start with... like one of those plastic bins with a removable lid.

Why weren't all electric outlets in your house covered in a manner that your very young son could not have stuck something in them? 

The fact that your son had access to do these things to start with leads me to think that maybe you don't have a lot of common sense either. (And I'm saying this in the kindest way possible.)


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

IP I think that finding a unifying reason why he has processing problems would help. One thing I thought of from your description is that he may have dyslexia and/or Asperger syndrome. Can you google those and see if he fits the descriptions?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

By the way, a learning disability or a processing disorder - and either are possibilities based on what you've said - does not necessarily mean that he's unintelligent. Those things don't automatically correlate with low IQ. It does mean that he's wired differently and may have some limitations or challenges that he needs to find coping mechanisms for. But, it also sounds like he's managed to find a job that he's good at and is successful in his chosen field. He's also great with your children and puts up with what sounds like a fair amount of high-maintenance and low EQ behavior from you. 

Only you can determine if this is a deal breaker for you. But if you find you simply don't respect him, then you need to cut bait sooner rather than later.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I did wonder if he was an Aspie when reading this... but... maybe he's not?

Bottom line is if you don't feel you respect him, it's not likely to work. A lack of respect leads to resentment (or vice versa) and that is not good or healthy.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> 141 is not really that 'intellectual' or even intelligent. It's just a measure of how well you did on a test that is known for being biased towards the well off.



actually I take issue with this
I would agree if you said this about SAT's but this isn't that sort of test, there is no cultural bias in what type of questions that get asked. (unless you take issue with the vocabulary part)

IQ isn't about how educated you are, it's about your ability to learn and how fast you pick up on patterns and spatial relationships and how logical your thinking pattern is.

they are broken down into the following parts-


Verbal Intelligence
Mathematical Ability
Spatial Reasoning Skills
Visual/Perceptual Skills
Classification Skills
Logical Reasoning Skills
Pattern Recognition Skills

and again, there is a thin case for the verbal intelligence having a bias but it would become evident in other parts of the test if that were the case

IQ DOES NOT ALWAYS CORRELATE TO HOW EDUCATED YOU ARE

trust me when I say that there are plenty of ignorant people with high IQ's and conversely people who know a ton of facts and can function just as well in higher tasks in some cases because they work/study their asses off. Someone who has both the hard work ethic and high IQ obviously has the best of both worlds in that respect. From her description it sounds as if that Iceprincess fits into that category.

That said, her emotional intelligence as others have pointed out seems to be a bit stunted. She views her husband to be beneath her when in fact he is simply different and has different values and strengths. It is okay to want to be with someone with the same values and strengths but to put down others who don't share your talent is a very callous and shallow way to go through life.

It took me a while to realize this myself (my IQ is actually higher than hers, nyah nyah) My wife isn't as quick as I am when it comes to learning, nor can she read as fast as I and her spelling and grammar can be flat out awful (and she's far from being stupid, she has a master's degree) but she's damn funny, has a great capacity to care for me, is a wonderful mother, understands biology and science better than me in cases and I could go on with a long list of stuff that's she's either better than me with or stuff that I admire her about.

so my advice to Ice is this-

stop the stupid testing on your BF in areas where you perceive him to be weak, start looking at the reasons why you love him. Play to his strengths and allow him to shine. I bet he's a great person regardless of how quickly he learns.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon iceprincess28
I think the bottom line is that if you don't respect him, don't marry him. Love and respect are very closely tied together. You would not be doing yourself or him a favor. 

Also keep in mind that there are many different types of "intelligence". I'm not saying "everyone is intelligent" or anything like that, but think of intelligence as a vector, not scalar quantity. Memory, creativity, quick-thinking, visualization of complex systems, mathematical ability are different and sometimes unrelated things. Be sure that you are not looking for a very specific sign of intelligence that is associated with egotistical, self-centered people.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, the way you describe him reminds me of Jeremiah on that show Royal Pains. He's a doctor with Asperger's.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Yes I get what you are saying... but
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He does not have access to plastic bags. The giant Legos come packaged in a hard clear plastic cube, that zips. As I mentioned in the above. 

I have cabinet baby locks and socket covers on all my outlets. Have you seen what socket covers look like? They pull off without any resistance.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Higher IQ brings no guarantees of an easier or happier life.
It's what you do with it that counts, and also what you don't do with it. 

Beyond average, the extra points/intelligence don't need to be used for 99.99% of daily life. 

If someone tested me and I wasn't married, I would walk.
That goes both ways. 
In the dating world, I try to avoid intellectuals. I think their demands would interfere with my day to day life enjoyment. Results may vary. If an intellectual or whatever really wants someone to meet him or her at their own level, and that's not being met in the relationship, there should be no guilt in moving on. It would be the right thing to do.

The fact that someone so smart needs to wonder about this, leaves me thinking...but not too hard.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

This scenario would not work for me. I greatly value the ability to have intellectual conversations and debates, to share responsibilities about complex relationship and financial matters, to trust that my spouse's decisions will be rational and informed and work for the benefit of the marriage. Carrying that responsibility entirely by myself is very unappealing, as is the idea that I have to always go elsewhere for intellectual stimulation. I would not take on the responsibility of a life-long child-level intellect.

If my spouse were able to make good decisions and was otherwise functional mentally and a wonderful person whom I loved, I might be able to forego the intellectual and philosophical conversations and fill that one need elsewhere. No-one is ever likely to fill EVERY need one has, so you must establish your limits and deal-breakers, and go from there.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I am a smartie, SMRTY. LOL! My BF moves his lips when he reads (slowly.) His grammar and spelling are awful. Sometimes I have to repeat myself on things a dozen times before he follows. If I had to place a number on our IQs, I would put mine higher than his. But I don't give two rips. 

I think his lip reading is cute. His incorrect use of "to" (too, two) drives me a little nuts, but he is telling me he "loves me to" so how can I get mad? 

My sister graduated at the top of her class in college, always in gifted programs growing up, and tested highly on an IQ test as well. Bless her, she's dumber than a box of rocks socially. 

Bottom line is you just have to decide what is worth it to you. Hindsight is always 20/20, and giving up what is good for what might be "better" sometimes doens't work in our favor. No one is perfect. But he may be worth it. Only you can decide.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

GA HEART said:


> My sister graduated at the top of her class in college, always in gifted programs growing up, and tested highly on an IQ test as well. Bless her, she's dumber than a box of rocks socially.


:rofl:

This reminds me of my cousin. She is extremely booksmart to the point of insanity but doesn't have two common sense brain cells to rub together. It's really funny.

"So smart she's stupid" my family used to say.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I dated many different types of men. Initially, most of these guys were intellectuals. But they were totally pretentious. Any conversations, of friendly debate- would quickly turn into an argument. They would usually make some underhanded cutting remark. The last straw for me, was when I was hired by a firm, which I had spent alot of time gathering references for, applying, not to mention- the amount of time i spent studying in college to get good grades- and spent my summers interning for. All for this moment. And the man i was married to at the moment had the audacity to tell me that I got hired based on my looks.


What he said is most likely VERY true and a BIG part of why you got hired. Like it or not, he didn't say it's a FACT....he simply said that it probably played a bigger part than your education.

And unfortunately, with what I've seen in the professional world (3 careers and dozen of places)......it's true.

I see MANY get hired for looks WITH NO EDUCATION for jobs that they can't even begin to do.....

And if you look at the big picture, what your ex told you SHOULD be a complement. No? He is telling you "you are beautiful" and most man will be blinded.





IcePrincess28 said:


> He is NOT intelligent. Lately- I decided to start chatting with him on basic rudimentary information- so that the man i love- I can start respecting more as my intellectual equal.


Right off the bat, without reading the rest.....I will tell you that you are creating a problem ON YOUR OWN.

If he is not intelligent, why did you go on 2nd date? Why did you date him and got into relationship etc?

Why does this matter now?

I'm getting a feeling you are looking for excuses to leave him? Is there another man on the radar?

WHY are you focusing So much on his 20% that he can NEVER provide you with or give you?

Look up 80/20 rule!!!



IcePrincess28 said:


> So- for the past two weeks- i've asked him over and over these same questions- as well as explained them over and over.
> 
> 1) What are the three branches of our government. Recently, he's getting these correct. 2) What makes up the legislative branch. And its blank. I've explained over and over. Its Congress- and they're divided up into the senate and the house of representatives.
> 
> So two minutes later- I will ask him again- and he forgot. I did this about 2 days in a row, and several times- bc I was a little concerned with his short term memory. And every time- he forgot.


Who gives a ****? Politics are worthless and bunch of BS.

If you are a such "intellectual" you should know this stuff.

Here, I will help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu3hy4OMX38

After you watch that, tell me, how smart do you think you are now?

This one is even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk



IcePrincess28 said:


> There would be some of the most basic common sense things- like- we've been playing a grocery game similar to the mcdonald's monopoly game. Except this involves about 100 different stickers- with pics of various grocery items on it. I'll get about 12 of these- and it would take him forever to do it. About a month in- I realized- that instead of looking at the number (the game sheet was ordered in 1-100, with pics- and you get the sheet sticks, with pics and the numbers underneath them to make them easier to find on game sheet)- he was looking at pictures. And therefore, some of the pictures were even in correctly matched.
> 
> When i pointed it out to him- he got defensive, and said- he was just doing it the way he wanted to do it. He is not a very defensive person- so for him to do this- I knew he was probably sensitive about a legitimate problem.
> 
> ...


What if?

That right there tells me your intellectual levels are even lower than I thought prior to my previous comment (sorry if this offends you).

What if the sun blows up and we all die NOW?

What if you get hit by a car today?

you see, what if questions are stupid and you can come up with ANYTHING. 

What if he died and you had to physically protect yourself and your child??? Would you be able to do that as a woman?

He should leave you cause you are not "strong" enough to "protect his family"

I can go on and on.....but CLEARLY, there is an issue with you and him that you need to identify. Something is wrong and you are looking for ways to justify leaving him.......

FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT ISSUE IS.

Working on issues and addressing them requires identifying what that issue is!!!

Step #1

Once you have an issue, we can help you out. But based on what you told us so far......you are simply arrogant? 

No body likes a person that thinks he is smarter than others. Part of intelligence is to accept that everyone is different and everyone is smart when it comes to SOME things and not so smart when it comes to OTHERS.

Clearly you are not smart when it comes to "knowing hiring process". 

What I'm saying is, we are ALL stupid and smart at times for different things.

I wish I can help you more....but I will tell you, do NOT go around flaunting your "intelligence". Even if you are Einstein!!!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> My sister graduated at the top of her class in college, always in gifted programs growing up, and tested highly on an IQ test as well. Bless her, she's dumber than a box of rocks socially.


Funny you say this. Over the years, I worked in # of "professional" jobs and at the time I thought I would be working with really smart people.

NOT the case, quite the opposite actually. Lot of these engineers, Director......even CEOs I've worked with/seen, JESUS. 

NOTHING to do with "smart" and EVERYTHING to do with LUCK.

Most of these guys are books smart. Unfortunately in college they don't teach common sense, and many of them simply don't have it.

Something I've learned and accepted pretty early on in life is that SUCCESS does NOT = smart. DO NOT think that a person is smart based on their financial status.

I've met PLENTY of people that came out of poor families and ghettos that had more common sense that these people I work with in offices with "college" degrees and what not.

Our current "CEO" is probably one of the dumbest people I have ever met/worked with in my LIFE.

Mind you, I'm not speaking for ALL of them. There is plenty of smart people that went to college. It just that so often the opposite seems to be the case.....


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> You hit the nail on the head with that. Our compatibility is the glue. Our opposites- are the reasons why we work so well. Granted- its something I value.
> 
> For instance- He is frugal- lives in a small house- that he almost completely owns- btw- work ethic of all those people you admire from the old days. He his a high school degree, then went to trade school to do something in the electrical department (i'm not sure what)- today- he works on all the government buildings - in terms of electrical maintenance. He mades a good but not high income. He does not waste anything. But I whole heartedly do not consider his behavior cheap. I genuinely think he is a conservative and smart spender. I tell him all the time how i wish I could be more like him- and that he needs to help me.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you're not mistaking his DESIRE to learn something with his ABILITY to?

You quizzed him about the government...Maybe he doesn't A) want to have his GF quizzing him and judging his intelligence and B) doesn't care to know.

You say he works in the electrical field...which requires at least moderate intelligence. You even admit you don't know his trade....what does that say?

Are you sure you're not being self-destructive for some reason. It sounds like you have a fantastic relationship and you want to end it because you can't have an intellectual discussion about the topics that YOU want to have. 

How about this? Talk to him about the best way to increase the power versus duration of batteries and which type of battery he'd rather use for high burst and consistent power through the duration of charge, lithium polymer or nickel metal hydride. Or if he doesn't work with batteries, what type of wire should be the minimum gauge used and what covering to run electricity underground from the house to a shed in the backyard.

Who do you think would walk away from THAT conversation feeling like the intelligent one? PS so he has all of these accomplishments, he's smart with money, his job and career, he's successful in his work and how to handle you...and yet you want to question whether you can trust your life in his hands.....uhmmm a bit dramatic don't you think?

Now, it doesn't mean you can have a long term relationship with him. You might develop a loss of respect for him over it. This might drive many additional issues into your relationship. But who's to say it's going to be anything different with anyone else. So you find a guy who's SMARTER than you, who will quiz you and make you feel inferior...Guess what will happen...you'll find faults in him and latch onto those and there'll be another post here in a few years "Can you really make it work with a SO that believes he's smarter than you are?"

PS if my post comes across as harsh, I apologize, it's meant to help. This is one of those situations where the typed word doesn't accurately demonstrate the proper intention of the message. I hope to only provide you with some self-monitoring.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I don't have a lot of faith in IQ tests. I remember taking one in grammar school - didn't pay much attention to it. Would probably have done better if anyone had suggested it was important. 

You most certainly can study for IQ tests - learn to solve the types of problems that are asked - but I don't think that study has much effect on intelligence (except as measured by the test).

I'm not nearly as intelligent now as I was when I was young - but I have much more knowledge.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon iceprincess28
> I think the bottom line is that if you don't respect him, don't marry him. Love and respect are very closely tied together. You would not be doing yourself or him a favor.


I don't agree with this.

My wife might not be the brightest person at times, for certain things.......but for others, she is extremely smart about.

If anything, AS A PARTNER, she should try to find ways to motivate him to learn and become a better person. That's part of the relationship.

As I see it, she is giving him stupid tests to only make herself feel better about herself/and worst about him.

Not cool at all.

First off, if my wife started testing me on IQ or whatever, that alone would probably be a HUGE turn off and make me think twice about and her intentions.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

it would be like going into a men's locker room and having a friend with a huge penis with a ruler to measure your penis to "confirm" that his is bigger


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> You hit the nail on the head with that. Our compatibility is the glue. Our opposites- are the reasons why we work so well. Granted- its something I value.
> 
> For instance- He is frugal- lives in a small house- that he almost completely owns- btw- work ethic of all those people you admire from the old days. He his a high school degree, then went to trade school to do something in the electrical department (i'm not sure what)- today- he works on all the government buildings - in terms of electrical maintenance. He mades a good but not high income. He does not waste anything. But I whole heartedly do not consider his behavior cheap. I genuinely think he is a conservative and smart spender. I tell him all the time how i wish I could be more like him- and that he needs to help me.
> 
> ...


This compatibility works for the short term, but in the long term you need to figure out if this will work. 

If someone does not inspire your respect, in the long run it may very well be doomed. There will be lack of passion and chemistry, all of which are very important in a relationship.

So I'm saying it's easy to have a relationship with someone like this, but in the long run will it fulfill your needs...I suspect not.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Are you sure you're not mistaking his DESIRE to learn something with his ABILITY to?
> 
> You quizzed him about the government...Maybe he doesn't A) want to have his GF quizzing him and judging his intelligence and B) doesn't care to know.
> 
> ...


Agreed

"Some people can't live without problems, if there isn't one, they create it"

Another point I would like to bring up is that OP said that she was not intimate with her boyfriend for a month.

Think about that for a bit. That's not really very intelligent.

He was "very understanding" too........he seems intelligent on that end.

OP, do you realize what's at stake when you "decide or choose" to "not be intimate" with your boyfriend?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I did wonder if he was an Aspie when reading this... but... maybe he's not?
> 
> Bottom line is if you don't feel you respect him, it's not likely to work. A lack of respect leads to resentment (or vice versa) and that is not good or healthy.


I'm thinking it isn't Asperger's since he's a people-person and networks and all that. 

I agree with you that a lack of respect spells doom for a relationship. I'll add, though, that being too picky and seeing things only from your own perspective also spells doom.

To me, it sounds like he is good at what he does and is successful at it, so he's no dummy. He knows how to manage his finances, is good with people, and focuses his learning and thoughts on what is interesting to him and not on other things. 

I know I only have a limited number of brain cells and if it's not important to me, I don't bother. My SO can run rings around me when it comes to physics and astronomy, but I can run rings around him when it comes to written analysis and presentation. He's a planner and organizer, and I'm more flexible and idea-oriented. So what? Nothing, as far as we're concerned.

Maybe your perspective can change so you see each other's differences as complementary. If it doesn't, you shouldn't marry as that will end up making you both miserable.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

norajane said:


> I'm thinking it isn't Asperger's since he's a people-person and networks and all that.
> 
> I agree with you that a lack of respect spells doom for a relationship. I'll add, though, that being too picky and seeing things only from your own perspective also spells doom.
> 
> ...


Agreed

To me it sounds like OP might not be able to EVER be in a relationship if she keeps this up.

Even the smartest man has SOME stupidity in them. 

There is NO Perfection in this world. Never was, never will be.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm smart enough to know that I don't know very much at all


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm smart enough to know that I don't know very much at all


I love this. Great post.

OP, this applies to you. At your age, you will simply have to trust us on this. We have ALL been in our 20s hehe


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> You hit the nail on the head with that. Our compatibility is the glue. Our opposites- are the reasons why we work so well. Granted- its something I value.
> 
> For instance- He is frugal- lives in a small house- that he almost completely owns- btw- work ethic of all those people you admire from the old days. He his a high school degree, then went to trade school to do something in the electrical department (i'm not sure what)- today- he works on all the government buildings - in terms of electrical maintenance. He mades a good but not high income. He does not waste anything. But I whole heartedly do not consider his behavior cheap. I genuinely think he is a conservative and smart spender. I tell him all the time how i wish I could be more like him- and that he needs to help me.
> 
> ...


You just described what dozens of females I know.... would want

in a man. Some of the most miserable and debt ridden people

I know....make over $250k. You are young so I doubt you have 

ever heard of this song and I will post it at end. Try to capture

the lyrics. 

It's never what you make, it's what you do with it. It is also not

the FSIQ total... it's the application. A quality brick mason or 

concrete mixer can make a ton of money if s/he knows the craft.

Side note-I was 16 and had a botched brain surgery. Doctors told

mom n pop I would never walk again, have mind of 10 / 12 y/o

and should be placed in assisted living once I turned 18 if they

were unable to care for me. 18 months later, won 5k race. Each

time I graduate (HS, undergrad, grad and hopefully doctoral), I 

send him an invitation with a message written at the bottom.

Motivation...oh you bet your arse it was. What this all comes

down to and John Wooten coined it, "It's not how you start the race,

it's how you finish it." 


Styx ~ Grand Illusion (Live) - YouTube


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

DoF said:


> Agreed
> 
> To me it sounds like OP might not be able to EVER be in a relationship if she keeps this up.
> 
> ...


I don't know that this is completely fair.

There are a lot of dumb, and really dumb people in this world. Just read the news and you can see them being highlighted every day.

OP - go with your gut feeling. If you don't feel right, you'll never be able to convince yourself.

Move on. You will find the one who meets all your expectations and then some.

Settling for someone is the most cruel thing you can do, for yourself and that person. Because you'll break their hearts even worse later on.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> You just described what dozens of females I know.... would want
> 
> in a man. Some of the most miserable and debt ridden people
> 
> ...


I disagree. Women say what they want but don't want what they say.

If they really wanted a man like this then all of my high school buddies would have been swarmed by girls... sadly that is not the case.

Instead it was the jerks who got all the women. Nice guys were left fapping in the wind.

And seriously, settling for someone when you don't feel 100% about that person is wrong. You're betraying yourself in the short run, and in the long run when you finally wake up and dump that poor soul, that poor man will be even worse off.

Be real, end it and move on. There a ton of fish in the sea. Don't settle if he ain't what you want.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

justaguy123 said:


> I disagree. Women say what they want but don't want what they say.
> 
> If they really wanted a man like this then all of my high school buddies would have been swarmed by girls... sadly that is not the case.
> 
> Instead it was the jerks who got all the women. Nice guys were left fapping in the wind.


You're talking about girls instead of women. Teenage high school girls are not yet mature enough to have any idea what they want. It doesn't go far beyond "oh, he's sooooo cute and smiles at me when I pass his locker!" These aren't meaningful relationships with women who have any clue about the world yet.

15 and 16 year old girls (and boys) are hardly marriage material or equipped to make such choices.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

justaguy123 said:


> I don't know that this is completely fair.


Life is not fair, but what in my post do you not find fair?



justaguy123 said:


> Settling for someone is the most cruel thing you can do, for yourself and that person. Because you'll break their hearts even worse later on.


I don't agree with this completely.

First, OP's boyfriend clearly has TONS of good going for him. OP decided to be in a long term relationship with him....and accepted his "intelligence".

Why is this an issue NOW? Didn't she notice on 2nd date? 

Also, we ALL settle for things in our partners. No body is perfect. 

If I was to take your advice above, I would not have a great marriage and life that I have right now (but I know I'm an exception to the rule and lucky)


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

DoF said:


> Life is not fair, but what in my post do you not find fair?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We can only lie to ourselves so much. The OP knows in her heart if it's fair to keep this guy around or not.

In your case it turned out for the positive, congratulations! 

In her case I really wonder. Lying to yourself can be the greatest deceit of all. 

And not all flaws come out in the 2nd or 3rd date, hence why we have such a high rate of divorce.

People also change over time, they are different now than they were 5 years ago or even 1 year ago. If they are no longer compatible then it's best to be honest about it and do the right thing.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

justaguy123 said:


> We can only lie to ourselves so much. The OP knows in her heart if it's fair to keep this guy around or not.
> 
> In your case it turned out for the positive, congratulations!
> 
> ...


You see, you think the issue is with the OP's boyfriend.

I think the issue is with OP herself.

That's the big difference between me and you on this thread.



I think it's deeper than just "his intelligence".....but that's just me.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

DoF said:


> You see, you think the issue is with the OP's boyfriend.
> 
> I think the issue is with OP herself.
> 
> ...


Ahh you misread my posts then. I never once blamed the boyfriend (read all of my posts here). What I stated is that if the OP doesn't feel something is fundamentally right, then it's not fair to the boyfriend to try to make this work, when in the long run it won't work.

I don't think anyone needs to choose sides here, there is no right or wrong, just two people who may not be a fit for each other in the long run.

In the short run we all can live with someone, but it becomes exceedingly difficult in the long run. We have to be honest with ourselves first and foremost. Settling is not the answer.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

justaguy123 said:


> Ahh you misread my posts then. I never once blamed the boyfriend (read all of my posts here). What I stated is that if the OP doesn't feel something is fundamentally right, then it's not fair to the boyfriend to try to make this work, when in the long run it won't work.
> 
> I don't think anyone needs to choose sides here, there is no right or wrong, just two people who may not be a fit for each other in the long run.
> 
> In the short run we all can live with someone, but it becomes exceedingly difficult in the long run. We have to be honest with ourselves first and foremost. Settling is not the answer.


Can't really disagree with anything above, correct.

:smthumbup:

It seems like she is coming up with petty excuses to leave. And OP should know that she can leave the relationship with NO excuses if she doesn't like the person.

No need to justify it etc....if that's what she wants.

I certainly wouldn't want to date ANY woman that would quiz me on politics BS. Matter a fact, I would thank her and run away FAST.

But that's just me. Anyone that's serious about religion or politics = deal breaker for me.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, what about your kids' dad?
Was he brilliant? You must have seen something in him to have kid/s with him? 
It might give some insight to know how that relationship ended.
Did he fall short in conversation, or did he fall short in other ways, or maybe the other way round, he wanted something he couldn't find in you...
I saw in one post you had little kid/s, sorry if I read that wrong.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> My apologies for misspelling a test that I took 13 years ago when I was 15.
> 
> And I won't accept people for a total package unless I figure out what I'm willing to compromise without feelings of future resentment. He is a good man and I don't want to waste his time unnecessarily.


Good. We are going to let that one pass… :smthumbup:

Now back to the issue at hand. This is a bit of a problem but your attitude toward it is probably your biggest obstacle. 

Loving somebody unconditionally means exactly that…no conditions. So he may not be your intellectual equal? 
Who cares? If you truly love someone then you love them for all their flaws, faults, foibles and follies.
You don’t get to pick and choose like you are putting together a new car package. 

From what you describe, this guy is years ahead of you in emotional maturity. 
He’s stable and a rock. Something that will compliment your aspects quite nicely.

But the best clue here was what you said about “We laugh at each other’s jokes.”
Usually people can’t make another one laugh unless they are matched on some level or another.

The thing you need to figure out is what is more important to you…your preoccupation with being intellectual or loving him? 

Being one myself, I can understand your doubts about intellectual stimulation. The cool thing about intellect is that there almost endless ways to get it met without having to cheat.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Good. We are going to let that one pass… :smthumbup:
> 
> Now back to the issue at hand. This is a bit of a problem but your attitude toward it is probably your biggest obstacle.
> 
> ...



Good post and even a better ending.

I think temptation or "other options" might be playing a BIG role in OP's thinking......just me though.

Which is why I recommended looking up 80/20 rule.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

I'm going to save all the "technical" and "intellectual" answers for everyone else.

Get off your high horse. Stop looking for a reason to continue sitting on the fence. Be happy in life with those who love you and those you love because we only get one rodeo. 

This is said with an iron fist in a velvet glove with all due respect.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

If you have an IQ of 141 you are beyond the 99th percentile. Virtually everyone is less intelligent than you. If an equal intelligence is what you desire, you're probably going to have to wait quite a while.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Ah, the Wechsler Scale … bane of my early childhood. My mother had me tested at age 3+ because I was “driving her crazy” and “not like my siblings” … I scored 163. That was the start of grave and unfortunate things in my young life … i.e. extreme expectations of the “little genius”, starting elementary school at age 3, college at 15 years, etc. It also led to my mother’s favorite phrase regarding me “Red is a genius but doesn’t have the common sense God gave to a fence post”. All this did for me was to make me feel weird and “not normal”. Yes, I am considered a “mathematical genius” by the academic-types rolleyes however I would rather have had a “normal childhood” and have had more time to “just be a kid”.

That said, intelligence has its place however I put more value in children growing up to be kind, considerate, empathetic and creative individuals (like the OP’s boyfriend) … instead of entitled and spoiled princes/ses that look down upon others or that think the world “owes them”.

I also agree with the opinions of other posters, i.e. *respect and admiration are an integral part of adult love.*


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## tonedef (Aug 7, 2014)

Albert Einstein once said if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will grow up its whole life thinking it is stupid. That is what you will eventually lead your boyfriend to believe. Personally, I think you are a tad arrogant, I mean no offense, but I have known a few ''intelligent'' people who thought average people to be ''below'' them and these quizzes over trivial matters will make him feel that way. Also, I lack common sense at times, have my ''air head'' moments, but I manage to care for 4 kids and survive by the end of the day lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Iceprincess - I was thinking on what you shared with us. It ought not be a surprise that, like it or not, appearance can play a part with a job/career. In a professional workplace it will only get you so far though (hopefully!) as the skills are still needed to back up your work. You were offended by your ex noting this. 

You were raised with parents who showed-off your education/intellect. I question if you were okay with that and accepting of it? It sounds as though it's become engrained as part of your self-worth. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're about ...but I can't help wonder if it plays a part in some kind of script you've followed. Do you know that you're worthy of being loved simply for who you are?

I may be taking a crazy detour in thinking here. Whether you stay with your boyfriend or not, I think there's going to be stuff you can discover about yourself in the process. Maybe it's simply that you need someone who shares similar interests of conversation and you'd respect that and I'm way off track but I can't help but feel it's something deeper with you. At this point I'll also disclose to you that I'm a high-school drop out.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> IP I think that finding a unifying reason why he has processing problems would help. One thing I thought of from your description is that he may have dyslexia and/or Asperger syndrome. Can you google those and see if he fits the descriptions?


i am not sure as to how i will find out if he is dyslexic or not- without hurting his feelings. A lot of you misunderstood my context- when i spoke of quizzing him on two questions related to government structure. I wanted to see if I could awaken an interest within him- I asked him these same two questions one day. but only continued to do so the next two days- bc I was catching on that he had possible memory issues. In all of this- he actually wanted to- and tried to remember the answers- bc he was trying to please me. Upon realizing this awkward predicament that i was putting him in, and getting a grasp that he possibly had some type of learning disorder- I was done with it all. And regardless- I would never want to take the teaching role. Its too pretentious, IMO. It would surely make him feel that I was better than him- when rather- only we know different things, in different topics. 

As for asbergers- he definitely does not- at least thats IMO. He interacts very well socially, responds appropriately emotionally. He has his routine- but adjusts to change very well. Such as going on vacations, meeting new friends, doing new physical activities, hobbies- as well as how fine he seemed the first night he slept over at my place, pronounces things well- (just possibly not hear well). 



Rowan said:


> By the way, a learning disability or a processing disorder - and either are possibilities based on what you've said - does not necessarily mean that he's unintelligent. Those things don't automatically correlate with low IQ. It does mean that he's wired differently and may have some limitations or challenges that he needs to find coping mechanisms for. But, it also sounds like he's managed to find a job that he's good at and is successful in his chosen field. He's also great with your children and puts up with what sounds like a fair amount of high-maintenance and low EQ behavior from you.


Him having a possible learning disability, is separate from him having problem solving skills (intelligence dept). In no way do I think a learning disability is a bad thing. It may be a temporary hindrance- to which there is a solution.



Almostrecovered said:


> That said, her emotional intelligence as others have pointed out seems to be a bit stunted. She views her husband to be *beneath *her when in fact he is simply different and has different values and strengths. It is okay to want to be with someone with the same values and strengths but to put down others who don't share your talent is a very callous and shallow way to go through life.
> 
> It took me a while to realize this myself (my IQ is actually higher than hers, nyah nyah) My wife isn't as quick as I am when it comes to learning, nor can she read as fast as I and her spelling and grammar can be flat out awful (and she's far from being stupid, she has a master's degree) but she's damn funny, has a great capacity to care for me, is a wonderful mother, understands biology and science better than me in cases and I could go on with a long list of stuff that's she's either better than me with or stuff that I admire her about.
> 
> ...


Reading that, you gathered this is my view on my SO, is upsetting (not directed towards you). I'm upset at myself for coming off that way. I certainly do not think this man is beneath me. I do not value his logic and reasoning- but if I had to give a numerical value of personal flaws I have, out of 100, compared to his- I would give myself an 80, and him a 20. To emphasize- I DO NOT THINK HE IS BENEATH ME. If anything- I am beneath him. 

So- as to your telling me i put him down- and i'm testing him- I'm not and i'm not. ps. did you read all my previous posts?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, you are not happy with him. Stop trying to think and talk your way out of your reality. The relationship is already over? You don't need a 'reason' to not be happy or in love with him. These things are easier for people to understand when they don't have to think so hard about it.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

intheory said:


> IcePrincess,
> 
> Your story is very touching. I find myself really liking your SO by your description of him.
> 
> ...


Going to eat dinner- I made some slow simmered tomato sauce from scratch from some yummy roma tomatoes, garlic, shallots, & oregano! I can't wait!


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I'll laugh my ass off when he dumps you for a waitress who can love him for who he is.

Karma...


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Intelligence in the realms that you define in your initial post is only one aspect of the overall intelligence package of the human animal. If you don't understand and appreciate that you are not as smart as you think you are.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Him having a possible learning disability, is separate from him having problem solving skills (intelligence dept). In no way do I think a learning disability is a bad thing. It may be a temporary hindrance- to which there is a solution.


Actually, many learning disabilities and/or processing disorders are _not_ separate from problem solving skills. The ability to problem solve can be greatly effected by differences in the way the brain processes and accesses information. Whether or not a processing issue or learning disability effects problem solving skills depends largely on the type of issue, rather than on the presence or absence of said issue. And again, challenges in those areas are not automatically directly correlated with IQ. 

But, that's entirely moot since, if he is a maintenance electrician on government buildings, he does problem solving for a living. Electricians spend most of their time figuring out what the problem is - usually based on the patently unhelpful ranting of an irate non-electrician who is being inconvenienced by the electrical problem at hand - and how to fix it with the least amount of aggravation, expense and demolition possible. If he's a competent electrician, chances are that his problem solving skills are just fine. 

Here's the thing, though: It doesn't matter if he's smart, has a learning disability, or does or does not have great problem solving skills. What matters is that you are having problems seeing him as an equal. If you cannot respect him now, then it won't suddenly get better later.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> He does not have access to plastic bags. The giant Legos come packaged in a hard clear plastic cube, that zips. As I mentioned in the above.





IcePrincess28 said:


> My younger, who was 1.5 yo at the time- was playing with his giant legos. these giant legos came in a _*clear cubical hard plastic zipper "bag"- *_there were 3 large holes, with approx a 2" diameter on the bag- probably as a precaution in case a child put this on their head.


If the plastic 'thing' was not of any danger to your child, why did this bother you? If it was a danger why was it somewhere that your child could get to. That's the point... not what the 'thing' is called.



IcePrincess28 said:


> I have cabinet baby locks and socket covers on all my outlets. Have you seen what socket covers look like? They pull off without any resistance.


For people who still have small children, there are socket covers that are hard to a kid to get into.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Hmmmm....I think this goes far deeper than just intellectual incompatibility.

My husband and I are very different. The man is a genius, I don't have his intellectual intelligence, and he doesn't have my emotional intelligence. But we work, very well. We're so good together.

Fwiw, I could list the levels of parliament, but I'd probably get some of it wrong...could I learn the political structure in depth and quickly gain a full understanding of it? Of course I could, I just don't want to.

As I read your first post, I got the feeling that this runs far deeper than just the intelligence issue, I feel a distinct lack of respect for him from you. 

I have a cousin who is a genius. Blew his IQ test out of the park, is a MENSA hero. Aced all of his University exams...well guess what? In his mid 40's, he lives in his parents house, sleeps in his childhood bedroom with his pet cat for company. He's never had any real friends or a girlfriend. He's a social and emotional cripple. It's so sad


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Ever get the feeling you are being trolled?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

IcePrincess28 said:


> i am not sure as to how i will find out if he is dyslexic or not- without hurting his feelings. A lot of you misunderstood my context- when i spoke of quizzing him on two questions related to government structure. I wanted to see if I could awaken an interest within him- I asked him these same two questions one day. but only continued to do so the next two days- bc I was catching on that he had possible memory issues. In all of this- he actually wanted to- and tried to remember the answers- bc he was trying to please me. Upon realizing this awkward predicament that i was putting him in, and getting a grasp that he possibly had some type of learning disorder- I was done with it all. And regardless- I would never want to take the teaching role. Its too pretentious, IMO. It would surely make him feel that I was better than him- when rather- only we know different things, in different topics.
> 
> As for asbergers- he definitely does not- at least thats IMO. He interacts very well socially, responds appropriately emotionally. He has his routine- but adjusts to change very well. Such as going on vacations, meeting new friends, doing new physical activities, hobbies- as well as how fine he seemed the first night he slept over at my place, pronounces things well- (just possibly not hear well).


Ice I didn't mean to give the impression that I am judging you. You are refreshingly honest and revealing. Moreover, you question yourself. There is nothing to judge. I thought of dyslexia because I have it and I think I recognize it in your bf. Not sure but it takes so many forms it hard to pin down. I can't spell worth a [email protected] Miss whole words when I read and write. 

A good memory for the spoken word and things that really interest me saved me in school. The standard description is incomplete. There is no way that you can tell by asking him but by observing. Dyslexics hide it very well, usually by memorizing or getting others to help them present the material in a form they can understand. Studies indicate that the average IQ is higher than the general population. 

What to do. Your question seems to be - can you find a meeting of minds so that you can enjoy the other fine qualities of this man. It's up to you and what is important to you. How supportive are your family and friends to the relationship? How does he interact with the people you work with? Could you take him to a social event with your boss and feel comfortable? 

The way I see it is that there is a heavy cultural overlay here as well as the basic differences in the way you process information. The opinion of your family and friends is also important. I am guessing that you want your parents to see that their investment in you was worth the sacrifice. How does your choice of your bf fulfill that need for you. Do they respect him and like him?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Red Sonja said:


> Ah, the Wechsler Scale … bane of my early childhood. My mother had me tested at age 3+ because I was “driving her crazy” and “not like my siblings” … I scored 163. That was the start of grave and unfortunate things in my young life … i.e. extreme expectations of the “little genius”, starting elementary school at age 3, college at 15 years, etc. It also led to my mother’s favorite phrase regarding me “Red is a genius but doesn’t have the common sense God gave to a fence post”. All this did for me was to make me feel weird and “not normal”. Yes, I am considered a “mathematical genius” by the academic-types rolleyes however I would rather have had a “normal childhood” and have had more time to “just be a kid”.


Why do people do this to their kids? My parents had 8 little geniuses. We all test at the above range. Their outlook on it was that kids should be kids first. Thank goodness for that. Our intellectual and academic growth was not compromised. But then either was our social and emotional growth.



Red Sonja said:


> That said, intelligence has its place however I put more value in children growing up to be kind, considerate, empathetic and creative individuals (like the OP’s boyfriend) … instead of entitled and spoiled princes/ses that look down upon others or that think the world “owes them”.
> 
> I also agree with the opinions of other posters, i.e. *respect and admiration are an integral part of adult love.*


:iagree:


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> The way I see it is that there is a heavy cultural overlay here as well as the *basic differences in the way you process information.*


There is a lot of that here!

OP, your free groceries game...we had that here, too. Like your husband, I matched the pictures rather than the numbers. The way I process information, it was faster for me to visualize picture groups in my mind and their association with the prizes. 

It's an automatic process, and works just as well for me as following the numbers does for you. In your head, your brain says 263 is in this group between the 250 and 270 groups, and then you find the number. In my head, my brain says the potato chips are in the Free Car! group, and there they are. Neither way is better or worse, although the little numbers might require reading glasses if you're old. And I'm old. I used to play Husker Du as a child. 

K-tel "Husker DU?" commercial - YouTube 

Do you think you might come across judgmental, like you think you're husband's way of processing information is inferior to yours? If that's what I'm picking up, even if that's not how you really feel, then it's possible your boyfriend might be, too.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> Agreed
> 
> "Some people can't live without problems, if there isn't one, they create it"
> 
> ...


I'm a single mother with two kids, 2 & 4. My kids go to their dads on sat, come back sunday. I work about 50-60 hours a week. I have to take home alot of work. He wakes up every day at 5am. Even on the weekends. we see each other 4 out of 7 nights. And out of 3 of them, the kids are there. 

Unless we go out- if he is in a horizontal position- couch or bed- he is asleep by 10pm. When we did not have sex for a 30 days- its because I went to Vegas for a girls' trip, and then took my kids to Florida for a family vacation. He had a family vacation in Gulf Shores, AL, which my kids and i opted out of, bc 5 of his family members canceled, so they canceled one cabin, as well as "consolidated" the remaining cabins with an extra toddler here and there. He was invited to the family vacation, but was short on vacation days- because we are hoping that we can take a two week vacation to my hometown of Shanghai, China, sometime in the next six months. 

This is why he is understanding. But even if it were for reasons worse than that- he would still be understanding. He is wonderful that way- and its why I stand to learn alot from him.


On a separate note- I do not need him to like politics. When i stated intellectual equal- it does not mean that he needs to want to learn the same things i want to learn. I think that one of the most attractive qualities in a person, is if they were to have the constant desire to learn. THAT- is what i consider, is an *intellectual*. THAT is what i mean by, my intellectual equal. Wether we are learning together, or learning from each other. I do not care. It did not have to be politics. I was testing the waters to see what he would have an interest in.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I'm a single mother with two kids, 2 & 4. My kids go to their dads on sat, come back sunday. I work about 50-60 hours a week. I have to take home alot of work. He wakes up every day at 5am. Even on the weekends. we see each other 4 out of 7 nights. And out of 3 of them, the kids are there.


What are you trying to say with above? I don't understand.

Why do you work so much? Are you getting paid overtime?



IcePrincess28 said:


> Unless we go out- if he is in a horizontal position- couch or bed- he is asleep by 10pm. When we did not have sex for a 30 days- its because I went to Vegas for a girls' trip,


More things you say, more concerned I am for your boyfriend.

Girls trip? Why wasn't your loved one AND children included on your vacation? 

What the hell is girls trip anyways? What does that mean?



IcePrincess28 said:


> and then took my kids to Florida for a family vacation. He had a family vacation in Gulf Shores, AL, which my kids and i opted out of, bc 5 of his family members canceled, so they canceled one cabin, as well as "consolidated" the remaining cabins with an extra toddler here and there. He was invited to the family vacation, but was short on vacation days- because we are hoping that we can take a two week vacation to my hometown of Shanghai, China, sometime in the next six months.
> 
> This is why he is understanding. But even if it were for reasons worse than that- he would still be understanding. He is wonderful that way- and its why I stand to learn alot from him.


Look, you can make all the excuses in the world.

Bottom line is, IN a relationship, intimacy is extremely important. YOU MAKE TIME.

Is your relationship your priority? Or is it your job....or your kids? Or is it YOU?

Almost seems like you have your priorities all wrong here. <<<<just an assumption based on what you said.

You still haven't answered my question. Do you realize that withholding intimacy in a relationship is as bad as cheating?





IcePrincess28 said:


> On a separate note- I do not need him to like politics. When i stated intellectual equal- it does not mean that he needs to want to learn the same things i want to learn. I think that one of the most attractive qualities in a person, is if they were to have the constant desire to learn. THAT- is what i consider, is an *intellectual*. THAT is what i mean by, my intellectual equal. Wether we are learning together, or learning from each other. I do not care. It did not have to be politics. I was testing the waters to see what he would have an interest in.


So why are you quizing him on crap you care about > that he doesn't?

I agree with what you said above about learning> driving forward.

But for god sakes, PLEASE stop with your little "testing the waters" or quizzing him about this BS. It's completely irrelevant to your relationship.

You said it yourself, he is a great man. And human nature IS to always look for faults/negative. Many times I notice that negative completely overwrite the good.

It's OUR job as partners to keep our mind on positive about our partners and be optimistic.

You are doing the opposite IMO.

Again, look up 80/20 relationship rule.

Look in the mirror and figure out what is driving you to focus on his faults so much. Digging DEEP into yourself and figuring out what is causing you to do things is part of maturity!


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

norajane said:


> I'm thinking it isn't Asperger's since he's a people-person and networks and all that.
> 
> I agree with you that a lack of respect spells doom for a relationship. I'll add, though, that being too picky and seeing things only from your own perspective also spells doom.
> 
> ...


To TAM- since I posted this thread several nights ago- i've been reading, posting, reading, posting. And its allowed me to put on "paper" - as well as refresh my memory- as to all his wonderful points. Its reminded me of why I love him. And as i read most of your posts- its allowed my doubts in him- to dwarf down- little by little. Its also allowed me to write out my pros and cons- and the few things that are cons- seem to become really unimportant by the minute. But I don't change over night. If i did- theres a big chance, i'll be back in a month or two- feeling the same way. 

I hope its obvious to you all- that I know that i'm the one with the long end of the stick. He has far more to offer to me, than I to him- but of course- to make it work, both people have to want to be in it- regardless of who benefits the most out of it. He would never want me to stay with him, just bc its the right thing to do. I have to truly want it. Which is why i'm here. 

In the next year or two- I have some big decisions to make. If we move in together- we have to buy a bigger house together. Move somewhere- thats convenient for both his work, as well as mine. It has to be close to good private schools for my kids. His family is huge and all of us are Catholic (we are non practicing, but both agree that we would like to start going to church- to be part of a big community of a bunch of families, so that my kids can have more friends to play with- but will continue to have a secular household- for the most part). So big wedding. He's ready to have kids. So- I really must take the proper precautions before moving on- so that i'm not wasting his time.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> I love this. Great post.
> 
> OP, this applies to you. At your age, you will simply have to trust us on this. We have ALL been in our 20s hehe


This bugs me- alot. Just because I am talking about my specific concerns of making things work with my SO- does not mean i think i am smart. Yes, my parents made me take an Wechsler IQ exam (which i spelled WECHLER, bc its pronounced WES - LER, so ever since I was 15, I only knew the beginning was spelled differently than it is pronounced) - to which i stated my score- bc if holds any weight- as a measure in intelligence- it might measure my problem solving skills- I do not know how many times i have to repeat this. A high IQ DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE SMART, EDUCATED, KNOWLEDGABLE, NOR AN INTELLECTUAL. 

I feel as though i'm getting some snide remarks (not from you) - from some, because they're taking offense to me stating the academic and personal growth experiences that i've gone thru in life. 

Yes, I have been overstudied in school- making me only COLLEGE EDUCATED- and KNOWLEDGABLE in certain areas of academics. And I am an INTELLECTUAL, because i seek to LEARN NEW THINGS EVERYDAY. I believe an INTELLECTUAL is the definition of socrates' journey- in finding the smartest man in the world- and realizing that *the smartest man in the world is the one that knows he knows nothing*. I am always seeking to learn. Why does calling myself an intellectual, with relatively good problem solving skills make some people snide and think i'm on a high horse? I will continue to ignore those that give non constructive criticism. Again- DoF- not directed at you. 

I stated in earlier posts- that when i'm at work- i engage with my co-workers- by asking them to teach me something. Because in addition to learning something new- it lets them know i respect what they have to offer. 

I went to an ivy league college because i was FORCED to. It was a big waste of my parents' hard earned money. If i had it my way, I would've done two years in community college, got really good grades, and then transferred to a prestigious State university, such as UC Berkley- on an academic scholarship. Don't knock me just because you (and you know who all you are) - have come across pretentious pricks who think their ivy degree means they're better than everyone. Don't deflect that on me.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> To TAM- since I posted this thread several nights ago- i've been reading, posting, reading, posting. And its allowed me to put on "paper" - as well as refresh my memory- as to all his wonderful points. Its reminded me of why I love him. And as i read most of your posts- its allowed my doubts in him- to dwarf down- little by little. Its also allowed me to write out my pros and cons- and the few things that are cons- seem to become really unimportant by the minute. But I don't change over night. If i did- theres a big chance, i'll be back in a month or two- feeling the same way.
> 
> I hope its obvious to you all- that I know that i'm the one with the long end of the stick. He has far more to offer to me, than I to him- but of course- to make it work, both people have to want to be in it- regardless of who benefits the most out of it. He would never want me to stay with him, just bc its the right thing to do. I have to truly want it. Which is why i'm here.
> 
> In the next year or two- I have some big decisions to make. If we move in together- we have to buy a bigger house together. Move somewhere- thats convenient for both his work, as well as mine. It has to be close to good private schools for my kids. His family is huge and all of us are Catholic (we are non practicing, but both agree that we would like to start going to church- to be part of a big community of a bunch of families, so that my kids can have more friends to play with- but will continue to have a secular household- for the most part). So big wedding. He's ready to have kids. So- I really must take the proper precautions before moving on- so that i'm not wasting his time.


This is a great post.

But just remember, you are in a serious relationship right now. Don't just think about YOU.

Put yourself in his shoes. Think about the burden that he is taking on by being with you (single mother of 2 young kids) and how HIS future is effected.

I'm pretty sure your own concerns SHOULD become petty at this point......

Look, seems like you have a great man on your hands. 

Great man are HARD to find.

Matter a fact, NO "intellectual" man will EVER EVER EVER consider even dating a single mother of 2 young kids.

Think about all that.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> This bugs me- alot. Just because I am talking about my specific concerns of making things work with my SO- does not mean i think i am smart. Yes, my parents made me take an Wechsler IQ exam (which i spelled WECHLER, bc its pronounced WES - LER, so ever since I was 15, I only knew the beginning was spelled differently than it is pronounced) - to which i stated my score- bc if holds any weight- as a measure in intelligence- it might measure my problem solving skills- I do not know how many times i have to repeat this. A high IQ DOES NOT MEAN YOU'RE SMART, EDUCATED, KNOWLEDGABLE, NOR AN INTELLECTUAL.
> 
> I feel as though i'm getting some snide remarks (not from you) - from some, because they're taking offense to me stating the academic and personal growth experiences that i've gone thru in life.


Most people will have a VERY negative outlook on ANYONE that thinks they are smarter than others......

This is basic human nature. Don't flaunt your "smartness". Smart people keep that stuff to themselves (as they learned the hard way hehe)



IcePrincess28 said:


> Yes, I have been overstudied in school- making me only COLLEGE EDUCATED- and KNOWLEDGABLE in certain areas of academics. And I am an INTELLECTUAL, because i seek to LEARN NEW THINGS EVERYDAY. I believe an INTELLECTUAL is the definition of socrates' journey- in finding the smartest man in the world- and realizing that *the smartest man in the world is the one that knows he knows nothing*. I am always seeking to learn. Why does calling myself an intellectual, with relatively good problem solving skills make some people snide and think i'm on a high horse? I will continue to ignore those that give non constructive criticism. Again- DoF- not directed at you.


I understand. This all sounds good, but is your academics your priority? 

So you learn things every day but cannot be intimate with your loved one?

:scratchhead:

And this is ok BTW, we ALL get lost in the struggle of every day life at times.

Re prioritizing is important though.



IcePrincess28 said:


> I stated in earlier posts- that when i'm at work- i engage with my co-workers- by asking them to teach me something. Because in addition to learning something new- it lets them know i respect what they have to offer.


Your coworkers probably don't give a crap and find you annoying......not saying what you doing is wrong, not at all, ti's good.....but it's what I've seen in the workforce out there.



IcePrincess28 said:


> I went to an ivy league college because i was FORCED to. It was a big waste of my parents' hard earned money. If i had it my way, I would've done two years in community college, got really good grades, and then transferred to a prestigious State university, such as UC Berkley- on an academic scholarship. Don't knock me just because you (and you know who all you are) - have come across pretentious pricks who think their ivy degree means they're better than everyone. Don't deflect that on me.


Yep, that would've been smart!!!

It's simply how you come off, not trying to apply my other experiences onto you. 

You certainly have a pretty high ego (you have many people here telling you that).....you should listen.

I mean, look at your name, iceprincess......why this name?

Not asking for an answer here, just an example....


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

justaguy123 said:


> I don't know that this is completely fair.
> 
> There are a lot of dumb, and really dumb people in this world. Just read the news and you can see them being highlighted every day.
> 
> ...


I get alot of what you're saying- but I just have to point out that I don't feel that i'm settling for him. Plus- luckily- money is not an issue for either one of us- he has a decent income, with a ton of room for promotion, saves alot. And I do well- which- for once- is probably the only good thing that has come out of working hard in school. Its allowed me to be able to find what is my relative true love- without having to use money as a considering factor. 

my parents have been with me through this. When i first started dating- they were like the typical chinese parents- wanting their daughter to marry a doctor, lawyer, etc. But they've seen the pain i've been thru. And they really love my SO. 

But, despite all that- bc of my culture- if I did not have a good job- I probably would not be able to consider him- because I place alot of value in education. Although I would've preferred saving my parents' money- and went to state schools- I've been brainwashed- to believe private education is best- and the good ones are very very expensive. My high school cost $23k a year. Again, I wish my parents did not spend all that money on those schools- I really enjoyed my time there- best years of my life. But I see how hard my parents work- and as the chinese daughter of immigrants I am- I just wish they did not have to spend all that on me. yet- I would not have it any other way for my kids. 

My 4 year old's pre school- costs almost 5 figures. And its been worth every penny to me. He enjoys it so much. And learns SO much. This is how many Chinese parents are- especially the ones that immigrated here from the big cities around China- due to the one child policy. 

However- I'm far from considering moving on. I've gone thru many serious relationships- and have developed a learning curve (just like everyone else) - from learning from my relationship mistakes. He has too many good qualities- for me to let go that easily. And really- this is a matter of me deciding if i'm wasting his time or not- rather than me deciding if I should settle for him. I actually could stay with him for a very long time- but unless I figure all this out- we wouldn't be moving forward (house shopping, live together, marriage, kids).


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> You see, you think the issue is with the OP's boyfriend.
> 
> *I think the issue is with OP herself.*
> 
> ...


Yes- exactly.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Why do people do this to their kids? My parents had 8 little geniuses. We all test at the above range. Their outlook on it was that kids should be kids first. Thank goodness for that. Our intellectual and academic growth was not compromised. But then either was our social and emotional growth.


I was in the 'Gifted Program' in grade school which was humiliating at the time and I'm embarassed to tell people about it now - not least of all because it comes with some expectation of being incredbly successful which I most certainly have not been.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> Anyone that's serious about religion or politics = deal breaker for me.


I wouldn't consider myself "serious" about politics. But I do vote, and follow national news, foreign affairs- that are in play with our country, in addition to follow the topics that I find important.

If i ever talked politics with someone, who shared that common topic, but had an opposing opinion- I have NEVER, and i say, NEVER- forced my idea on them. It has always been a polite exchange of ideas, and counterpoints. And with politics- there is never a RIGHT answer, nor a better view. There is my view vs. their view. There might, however, be an individual that might have better evidence at hand to back up their views, and such- is the art of debate. I enjoy conversations with well informed people of opposing views because they give a lot of insight to the opposing view, which helps me substantiate whether or not I should change or keep my current view. 

So i'm not sure what you mean by serious- but people that just debate, to force their views on you- are not trying to debate- they're just trying to tell you they are right, and no counterargument on your end will cause them to change their mindset.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> OP, what about your kids' dad?
> Was he brilliant? You must have seen something in him to have kid/s with him?
> 
> *He is a business owner- mostly companies that involve building commercial real estate- such as foundation & concrete, and development. He was very street smart. We got along very well for the most part. *
> ...


----------



## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

texasoutlaw82 said:


> I'm going to save all the "technical" and "intellectual" answers for everyone else.
> 
> Get off your high horse. Stop looking for a reason to continue sitting on the fence. Be happy in life with those who love you and those you love because we only get one rodeo.
> 
> This is said with an iron fist in a velvet glove with all due respect.



How am I sitting above him, when he is above me in all aspects, besides the one that i have an issue with? 




BrockLanders said:


> If you have an IQ of 141 you are beyond the 99th percentile. Virtually everyone is less intelligent than you. If an equal intelligence is what you desire, you're probably going to have to wait quite a while.


I'm seeking an *intellectual equal*- someone who enjoys learning. Whether its about the type of trees in my neighborhood, how to sail a boat- or the way a bill gets passed into law. His pick. 




heartsbeating said:


> Iceprincess - I was thinking on what you shared with us. It ought not be a surprise that, like it or not, appearance can play a part with a job/career. In a professional workplace it will only get you so far though (hopefully!) as the skills are still needed to back up your work. You were offended by your ex noting this.
> 
> *This is regarding the ex- that marked the last of who were college educated with a "professional" job. Yes, it was the last straw- because he kept putting me down. No matter how often he had his successes- in which I congratulated him and was happy for him- he always put me down. He would tell me my college was crap- (bc he went to a good, very outstanding private university- which he paid of HIMSELF, but I went to Ivy, on my parents dime. He always told me my boss just wanted to FUUUUUk me. He would say, yea, I'd want to work with you too, if you look like an asian porn star. Yes, that ex complained all the time bc I did not dress "sexy" enough whenever I go out, or to work. And when I went to a better company- it was such an exciting thing for me- it was the last straw- to have him say that. I was sick of it. Him saying that to me, has nothing to do with whether or not that is true. Its about getting positive feedback. And there was none. We were only together for a short period of time- about 6 months. *
> 
> ...


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Sounds like your now boyfriend is a huge step up from your ex husband and children's father. It seems that he's a good guy and you're not used to good guys so you're trying to find flaws.

It also sounds like the methods you use/have been taught to use to make a value judgment about one's intelligence are very stringent and hence not necessarily accurate. Different doesn't mean dumb. 

While I've never been tested, I know my IQ is fairly high as well. I have always been on the honour roll in every school I've been in. This, despite the fact that I'm also a slacker. In college, I spent many a days in the school pub drinking cheap beer and singing karaoke instead of going to class. Then I would cram for my exams or quickly whip off an assignment at the last minute and get 95% while other friends went every day and just barely earned a 70%. 

In my relationship, we have intelligence in other areas. During the Northeast blackout in 2003, I would have been totally lost without lights, a method to cook with, radio etc. My spouse on the other hand is McGuyver. He grabbed a car battery, a headlight and stereo out of his old car, hooked them up and we had lights, the news, music and a renewable power source (recharging batteries using the car's alternator) for the entire blackout. 

He didn't go to school for that. However, ask him to spell a simple word like "I'll" and he will always type, "all". ("all be there in five minutes.")

I can read a book cover to cover in a couple of days. He will take months to get through it. Usually it will put him to sleep a few times before he gets through it. 

I need a carrot, sometimes a stick to get motivated. He decides he's going to do A and does A because he wills to do it.

He can paint and draw beautiful portraits. I can hardly draw a stick man.

There are plenty of examples like this in my own relationship.

Like I said, different doesn't mean dumb. I think that you can come to respect his intellectual differences on their own merit but until you do, this relationship won't work. I have discovered in my own relationship that a basic level of R-E-S-P-E-C-T is in some ways more important than love. Sometimes love ebbs and flows and when it does, respect can be the glue that sees you through those times and makes you want to work together to get it to flow again.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Revamped said:


> I'll laugh my ass off when he dumps you for a waitress who can love him for who he is.
> 
> Karma...


Aw, well thats sweet. He dated a girl, who is a bartender before me, for a year. His gf before that, is a baby delivery nurse. He described his relationship w/ the ex, who works as a bartender, as one of the most empty meaningless relationships he ever had. He could not hold a conversation with her- she cared about nothing but watching reality tv, drinking, and gossiping about her friends. He enjoyed his relationship with the girl who is a nurse, very much. They had hobbies together, and she taught him a thing or two about how a baby is delivered. He tried getting into the anatomy part of it, but was confused. Her mother breeds black labs- and he learned a bunch of stuff from that, which he really enjoyed. He said, the only thing he missed, was that lack of informative conversations- which he picked up right away from our first few dates. 

He told me when he saw me, he fell in love right away (yes, he was joking)- but when he spoke to me, he fell in love with my mind. I'm not the only one responsible for wanting the things I want for him. HE WANTS IT TOO, 

*so keep your snide non constructive comments to yourself. I can only imagine what pain you went thru in your life, for you to ridicule others like that. *


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> If the plastic 'thing' was not of any danger to your child, why did this bother you? If it was a danger why was it somewhere that your child could get to. That's the point... not what the 'thing' is called.
> 
> *because COMMON SENSE- would tell my kid- that, if he can put one clear object over his head- he can put other similar items over his head. Did you read my post? I told him he did a good job, advised him of the part that I had an issue with, and did it jokingly- and i myself - considered it "NO BIG DEAL" - which i wrote out*
> 
> ...


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

norajane said:


> There is a lot of that here!
> 
> OP, your free groceries game...we had that here, too. Like your husband, I matched the pictures rather than the numbers. The way I process information, it was faster for me to visualize picture groups in my mind and their association with the prizes.
> 
> ...


I never thought of it that way- you make a really good point there- (which i'm going to overthink now hehe) 

As for the way he did the grocery game- I did not think it was inferior. Instead I analyzed it, as well as added it to a mental list. This was a list i had no intention of having. It just is in my head- and won't go away. I simply thought of it as, my way that i did that particular game, is faster, and had zero errors- whereas he had about 4-5 errors as a result- because, as you know- some of the pictures look similar. So, it was only a problem, bc there were errors- but this grocery game had no value- other than, giving me another piece of information of how he problem solves.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> Girls trip? Why wasn't your loved one AND children included on your vacation?
> 
> What the hell is girls trip anyways? What does that mean?
> 
> ...


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

IcePrincess, I love your honesty and lucidity.

It sounds like your SO is a great guy with some good character, but you have some long-term concerns.

It really comes down to weighing out the positives and negatives and see what you have left. Can you commit to SO if he is unable to change? If you do end it, what qualities do you risk losing and never finding again? You have too weigh this out and then make a choice...and when you make that choice...stand by it. 

I am wondering if the relationship may be suffering a bit because of areas you may be holding back...because that's what people do when they aren't "all in" sometimes. Just winging it. Regardless, this guy sounds like he has some great qualities, and you would be doing him a disservice by being on the fence for a long time, creating arrested development in his own life.

If you do choose to try to work past it, it would serve to try to focus on positives rather than negatives...and sometimes the perception change will help you accept his foibles better, maybe even find them endearing after some time. A committed relationship is about sharing strengths and skills, which is important for the trajectory of your life...but it is also about trust, respect, and loving acceptance of each other...even when there are annoyances. Tough, tough call 'cos I know you are trying to see the whole picture, but sadly that is the risk of love and life.

Sometimes, you just gotta make a decision and stand by it...acknowledging the sacrifices and accepting them, not looking back...AND fully embracing the good things.

I think you have a good head on your shoulders.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I do not have to justify the reasons I take vacations, nor why I work so much


Of course you don't.

Just don't make any excuses about lack of intimacy....cause clearly your priorities are all wrong.



IcePrincess28 said:


> Did you even bother to read my previous posts regarding how that conversation came up?


Yes, but you still not answering some important questions....so I will ask again.

Is your relationship your priority? Or is it your job....or your kids? Or is it YOU? 

Make a list. You don't have to post it here for us, do it for YOURSELF. I would also tell you to be honest to your boyfriend where he is on that list.

Cause 2-3 years in, if I'm not a priority to my loved one (yes EVEN over children)......I'm out.

Relationship/marriage SHOULD be a priority (in your case, after good 2-3 years)......but kids should probably be a priority first as you date and relationship progresses.

And job? My job is not even in the top 10....sure it's important (don't get me wrong) but it's just a tool to get by in life. Not a "priority" or something that consumes my life the most. My job gets 8 hours to be exact, after that I'm a husband and a father.



IcePrincess28 said:


> Again- did you read my previous posts? That is the ONLY "testing" and i STOPPED.


Great, good for him.....and you.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I wouldn't consider myself "serious" about politics. But I do vote, and follow national news, foreign affairs- that are in play with our country, in addition to follow the topics that I find important.
> 
> If i ever talked politics with someone, who shared that common topic, but had an opposing opinion- I have NEVER, and i say, NEVER- forced my idea on them. It has always been a polite exchange of ideas, and counterpoints. And with politics- there is never a RIGHT answer, nor a better view. There is my view vs. their view. There might, however, be an individual that might have better evidence at hand to back up their views, and such- is the art of debate. I enjoy conversations with well informed people of opposing views because they give a lot of insight to the opposing view, which helps me substantiate whether or not I should change or keep my current view.
> 
> So i'm not sure what you mean by serious- but people that just debate, to force their views on you- are not trying to debate- they're just trying to tell you they are right, and no counterargument on your end will cause them to change their mindset.


I will re recommend the videos I posted. I think your outlook will change.

I've been where you are today....


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> Most people will have a VERY negative outlook on ANYONE that thinks they are smarter than others......
> 
> This is basic human nature. Don't flaunt your "smartness". Smart people keep that stuff to themselves (as they learned the hard way hehe)
> 
> ...


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Yes- exactly.


It seems like you might be getting a bit offended.

Please don't. I said "I think" that doesn't mean it's a fact to you OR me.

Just my assumption. I could be wrong.

We are not here to tell you what you want to hear. Most here will tell you what you need to hear. And often, you won't like it (unfortunately).

But please don't take offense, we are just trying to help.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I'm not sure how i am flaunting my "smartness". People that work hard in life, deserve to state certain achievements, but never to throw them in people's faces. I do not consider that IQ test an achievement. I stated that I enjoy learning. I went to college. But that automatically came off to some people, as flaunting. I will not acknowledge this, because its not applicable.
> 
> If you think I came off as thinking i'm smarter than everyone, well, thats you and those that agree's interpretation. It's impossible for anyone to be smarter than anyone. There are too many variables at play. I know the qualities that I am proud of myself for. I have plenty that I am ashamed of myself for having. But I will stand by, and be happy for myself, for the good qualities and achievements I have had. Interpret it how you will.


All of the above sounds fine. Again, it's just a vibe I'm getting (some here clearly might not get that vibe from you).

No big deal



IcePrincess28 said:


> YES. WE LIVE BLEED & DIE BY IT. My father & mother worked hard their whole life to make this possible for me, so that I could make it possible for my kids. They will get the best education possible- but I will be [email protected] if thats ALL THEY DO.


You see, you make good points here. As your kids grow you will notice more and more of your parents faults (this is normal).

And you also now realize that life is not all about success or studying.

As I like to say "NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme, EVER". It's all about moderation IMO.

I think we are rambling on now and you seem pretty defensive (which is fine)......but it's getting a bit out of control (and sorry for my doing in that as well).


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> IcePrincess, I love your honesty and lucidity.
> 
> It sounds like your SO is a great guy with some good character, but you have some long-term concerns.
> 
> ...


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I think you are on the right track with latest replies here.

I would recommend totally against making home buying decisions without marriage though. You are asking for trouble there.....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Didn't read everything but why are you even considering buying a home with him if you haven't worked through the fact that you say you don't respect him and don't like the fact that he's not as "intellectually intelligent" as you? 

Seriously. Because ... well...that is kind of a big deal--the house-buying business. You say you have qualms about leaving him with your child yet you want to purchase a home with him? 

Does not compute.

Your ideas about him do come across as nit-picky but only you can decide how to move forward. You said you are not testing him, but you are, as you gave examples of it on the first page of your thread. It seems the guys in your past who you said did have the intellect you are seeking treated you pretty horribly outside of that. Are you sure you're just not stuck in a way of thinking that unless someone treats your poorly, he's not right for you - because you are used to that dynamic and that is what now feels comfortable for you. Some people, even if they know someone is treating them badly, get stuck in a way of thinking that this is the relationship dynamic they feel the most comfortable with - because they are used to it.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> Of course you don't.
> 
> Just don't make any excuses about lack of intimacy....cause clearly your priorities are all wrong.
> 
> ...


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

DoF said:


> It seems like you might be getting a bit offended.
> 
> Please don't. I said "I think" that doesn't mean it's a fact to you OR me.
> 
> ...


*Not in that post I was not- you hit the nail on the head. I'm too robotic to not give someone credit when they're absolutely correct. Not joking on the "robotic" comment. *


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Didn't read everything but why are you even considering buying a home with him if you haven't worked through the fact that you say you don't respect him and don't like the fact that he's not as "intellectually intelligent" as you?
> 
> Seriously. Because ... well...that is kind of a big deal--the house-buying business. You say you have qualms about leaving him with your child yet you want to purchase a home with him?
> 
> ...


Agreed with ALL of the above.

Also, few tips and IMO "rule of thumb" advice on house buying.
- 20% down payment
- 6-9 month emergency fund
- NOT an investment, buy a home for a place to live, not to invest
- buy when you are financially ready (see above) and not because you CAN. I can go to a bank and get a loan for a new house and 3 cars TODAY. But that doesn't mean I should. I know if I should or not, not the bank. Bank's interest are a "conflict of interest" hehe


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Didn't read everything but why are you even considering buying a home with him if you haven't worked through the fact that you say you don't respect him and don't like the fact that he's not as "intellectually intelligent" as you?
> 
> *yes you're right- and yes- I put alot of long posts in this thread- The house buying issue was brought up as one of the reasons why I did not want to move forward until I am sure. There is no considering of house buying. *
> 
> ...


oh! on another note- I just remembered something- he does keep a little pocket size notepad on his person. This is for work- for jotting down work details. He told me on the back of it, he writes down a list of my big eff ups. I have no problem with this- I am pointing this out- that he says he does this because if he does not write some of the smaller ones down, he might forget them. So- yes- He might actually have memory issues. 

And no, I would never fault someone for memory issues.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

I just keep seeing a revolving circle with no definitive end. There's not even a means to an end. You're asking other people to solve a problem that, ultimately, you must make and live with. I keep seeing all these layers masking the original issue. 

Lack of respect or lack of intellectual respect for your man. I saw someone throw some 80/20 rule out and I thought that was a great example.

Your man seems to be all that and a bag of chips. Get your "substance" from another outlet. As men, we can not be all to end all. 

Also, take into consideration all the information on different does not equate to intellectual inferiority. Correlation does not mean causation. The issue lies within you and your definition of intellect. Solve that issue and make a decision.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

...a bit chou mei too?

Always be careful of hiao and forgive folks their weaknesses. If you do not see an LTR with him, be fair to him and yourself. One cannot just list a balance of compatibilities and come up with a logical solution. It either works or it doesn't. 

Be the right person and you'll find the right one.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> We do not have intimacy issues. I will compliment a man who was patient and understanding in the one month that we did not have sex.


Withholding intimacy is as bad as cheating. 

Intimacy is the ultimate way of telling your male partner that you love them. Without it, you can complement them all you want....your actions tell us, "not really"....ESPECIALLY when you are putting a WHOLE lot of effort towards job and kids.

Your boyfriend feels like #3 in your life. And he shouldn't....



IcePrincess28 said:


> 1) my kids
> 2) my job, bc it pays for my kids, a home over their head, and a very expensive 18+ years of private education. In my culture- many of use are taught- if you do not provide these for your kids- you are a FAILURE. There are plenty of stories of high school students in China and Japan, who did not test high enough to get into a good university- and they commit suicide- because its easier to die, than to bring that shame to your parents. Those examples are extreme- but show the varying degrees of influence that education plays in my culture. This holds its value for many of us. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE FOR ME. EVER. If I could not afford a nice big house for my kids and I to live in AND pay for their education- then we will live in an apartment. Thats the way I prioritize. Their happiness is of equal importance. It is why I date/seek out wholesome people like my SO.
> 3) My parents' happiness, in knowing their grandkids are well tended to
> 4) My SO. 5) Myself


Tell your boyfriend about above. See how he feels about that.

I guess the big question is, can your boyfriend/so EVER be #1? If you say no, than you should not be in ANY relationship. Well I take that back, you can, but it won't go over/end well.

#2 your job? Really? I'm SO sorry about that. I feel so bad for your boyfriend now....

Your culture is completely backwards. You see, some people are good at some things.....and bad at others. So your culture is telling you that if you are NOT good at "ONE THING" you are a complete failure? 

That is REALLY messed up.

I wasn't good in school, not at all. YET, her I am, great husband, great father, 3rd career etc etc.

FAR FAR FAR from a failure

Until you change this and accept this for yourself. It will be VERY hard for you to have a healthy relationship, I'm sorry.

Not being perfect AND failure is part of EVERYONE's LIFE. If you look at the history and all of the most successful people on this planet, they have one thing in common.....FAILURE!!!

Most people learn the hard way, by failing. That's how I learn!!!

Also, don't even get me started on "parents paying for college" and the fact that college is a BUSINESS in this country.

Then you consider the fact that college tuition has been going up more than ANY other industry (15-20%) and good luck for you and me to pay for our kids college......

I will do my best (as long as they are responsible) but they know it's THEIR responsibility to pay it off/pay for it. 

Anyways, I think I was right.

Your priorities are completely WRONG.

If you want a healthy long term relationship, your boyfriend/relationship will need to be your priority. Kids 2nd. Family........job somewhere down the road.



IcePrincess28 said:


> This is the American thinking of life. Its good- has its pros, as well as its cons. This is why I pick and chose the Chinese and American values- for my kids. They benefit from a combination of both.


I'm not an American and I find that what I wrote is actually not very American. Most people are career oriented. Heck I find most to be complete workaholics that allow their companies to dictate their life/family etc.

I will not let that happen to my family. Even if it means I live in a tent in the forest.....I don't care. As long as I have my loved ones, it really doesn't matter. But that's because I've lived in the real world and I already know that I'm BEYOND rich based on MY and WORLD standards.

Don't forget how most of the people in your culture live!!! They are JUST fine and all of the materialistic crap make 0 difference in their life. Having loved ones around and time they spend with them is what really matters.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> oh! on another note- I just remembered something- he does keep a little pocket size notepad on his person. This is for work- for jotting down work details. He told me on the back of it, he writes down a list of my big eff ups. I have no problem with this- I am pointing this out- that he says he does this because if he does not write some of the smaller ones down, he might forget them. So- yes- He might actually have memory issues.
> 
> And no, I would never fault someone for memory issues.


But you would for not being good in school?

It's simply a FLAW, we ALL have flaws. Many people in America that think like you do, and they give their kids drugs cause "they are not good in school". 

That should do the trick. How about just accepting that some kids are better at school than the others. It is COMPLETELY ok. They will be JUST fine.

Also, not EVERY kid should go to college (even though banks love to tell you that). college is NOT for everyone, it used to be a privilege for those special people.....now it's a new high school diploma and everyone and their mother has it.....THUS, it's LESS valuable than it used to be, yet you pay more.

Remember, chances are high that your kids will leave your nest in time and you will be left with...........YOURSELF and YOUR LOVED ONE.

Your parents....your kids....your job will ALL be in the background.....in time, like it or not. That WILL be reality.

I would highly suggest that you re-prioritize your life TODAY, this way you are ready when above comes, cause it WILL come.

I love my parents, but even they know and recommend that I should be a husband first.....father second....(again, in your situation, not sure if your boyfriend has earned that yet, but in time, he cirtanly should).

regardless, BE HONEST WITH HIM. If he will never be your priority, tell him....cause frankly at this point. He has more decisions to make about this relationship than you do!!!

Better yet, send him a link to this thread!

If I was him, I would leave you. And I'm sorry.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> oh! on another note- I just remembered something- he does keep a little pocket size notepad on his person. This is for work- for jotting down work details. He told me on the back of it, he writes down a list of my big eff ups. I have no problem with this- I am pointing this out- that he says he does this because if he does not write some of the smaller ones down, he might forget them. So- yes- He might actually have memory issues.
> 
> And no, I would never fault someone for memory issues.


This to me equates to what you are doing internally in your head to him - you keep the list on the inside and analyze him during the day (which you said you hate) and he just happens to write his list down. I wonder if he does that in a response to what you do to him? A little tit for tat?

Either way, unhealthy. Oooh you said you do that with everyone and if it's just a one-off/sometimes thing then I guess that makes sense but if you are judging people all the time, that is not good at all. 



texasoutlaw82 said:


> I just keep seeing a revolving circle with no definitive end. There's not even a means to an end.
> 
> I keep seeing all these layers masking the original issue.


That's how I see it too. It seems she wants to find faults with him so she can talk herself out of being with him. OP, what I am reading between all these lines is that you resent him, and that obviously isn't conducive to a happy relationship.



texasoutlaw82 said:


> I saw someone throw some 80/20 rule out and I thought that was a great example.
> 
> Your man seems to be all that and a bag of chips.


This is cute and gave me a chuckle.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> This to me equates to what you are doing internally in your head to him - you keep the list on the inside and analyze him during the day (which you said you hate) and he just happens to write his list down. I wonder if he does that in a response to what you do to him? A little tit for tat?
> 
> Either way, unhealthy. Oooh you said you do that with everyone and if it's just a one-off/sometimes thing then I guess that makes sense but if you are judging people all the time, that is not good at all.
> 
> ...


Agreed

All of above were my initial feelings.

Speaking from experience here. My 20s was "whole bunch off" pointing out faults to others, when in reality I should've been looking RIGHT in the mirror!!!

Could've saved a whole lot of trouble if I knew this early on....


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

texasoutlaw82 said:


> I just keep seeing a revolving circle with no definitive end. There's not even a means to an end. You're asking other people to solve a problem that, ultimately, you must make and live with. I keep seeing all these layers masking the original issue.
> 
> *What is a forum for? Oh- I suppose i'm supposed to make a decision in three days huh. What am I asking anyone to solve? I lack the emotionally maturity to have realistic expectations. I need people to help me wake up.*
> 
> ...





DoF said:


> Withholding intimacy is as bad as cheating.
> 
> Intimacy is the ultimate way of telling your male partner that you love them. Without it, you can complement them all you want....your actions tell us, "not really"....ESPECIALLY when you are putting a WHOLE lot of effort towards job and kids.
> 
> ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I once dated a guy who was not as 'smart'/well-read as me (or as I think I am lol) and it did throw me... sometimes I used bigger words and he'd look sort of puzzled, but you know what - he was seriously one of the best guys I ever dated. He treated me like an absolute princess and respected me in ways that other guys I studied with, meshed with in other circles, etc never did. 

Pick your battles. You have to decide what is most important to you.

You may find Mr. Intellect after all..and he may turn out to be Mr. Asshat (like all the guys you mentioned who were on your "smart" level on the first page). Or he may not. But the main this is:

There is no perfect man/woman.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> He can never be #1. After my kids are off to college- he will be. Bc the main part of my duties as the provider for my kids- are done. and I've made my parents proud in doing.


Please be honest with him and communicate above. Or send him a link to this thread.

He deserves to know!!!

I'm sorry to tell you this OP, but you are not relationship material (and there is nothing wrong with that).

You are simply not there yet (due to your current life/kids, priorities, maturity level and general outlook).

I won't get into the rest, you will have to learn the hard way.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> That's how I see it too. It seems she wants to find faults with him so she can talk herself out of being with him. OP, what I am reading between all these lines is that you resent him, and that obviously isn't conducive to a happy relationship.


Where in my posts from today- have I continued to list his faults? Where in my posts from yesterday have i done that? They were posted in a few of my initial posts on the first day (today is third day of this thread). 

These are funny responses for a person seeking help. Especially after I stated how I am starting to see how unimportant the few issues I have with him are, in addition to announcing confirmation of my own suspicions that some of my perceptions are very ludicrous. And that- amidst all this- I can not change overnight- otherwise it is not genuine. If I say- THANKS GUYS!! I'VE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH HIM. Any of you with an ounce of common sense, would know i'm lying.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> I once dated a guy who was not as 'smart'/well-read as me (or as I think I am lol) and it did throw me... sometimes I used bigger words and he'd look sort of puzzled, but you know what - he was seriously one of the best guys I ever dated. He treated me like an absolute princess and respected me in ways that other guys I studied with, meshed with in other circles, etc never did.
> 
> Pick your battles. You have to decide what is most important to you.
> 
> ...


I still think there is a "better option" on her horizon....probably at work...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

DoF said:


> I'm sorry to tell you this OP, but you are not relationship material (and there is nothing wrong with that).
> 
> You are simply not there yet (due to your current life/kids, priorities, maturity level and general outlook).
> 
> ...


Hmmm. No one asked if the guy is the same race or not. She could be dealing with cultural issues (be it the guy is same or different race). If brought up already, sorry I missed it in the thread.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Hmmm. No one asked if the guy is the same race or not. She could be dealing with cultural issues (be it the guy is same or different race). If brought up, sorry I missed it in this thread.


Although your point is real, to me human is human........regardless what color/race they are.

It's HUMAN's responsibility to figure out how these "cultures" divide people and force "things" down their throat.....for whatever reason.

Or "why the things are the way they are".

She said she is smart, so I would think she has all that figured out already. 

Wife and I have culture differences, but we both have figure out how ****ed up our cultures are.....



I used to be a blind follower, now I question. ANYTHING that "everyone" does = I question and most of the time I'm completely against.

For example, Apple.......Kim Kardasian......buy a house.......dubstep.......disneyland....buy a car every 3 years......keeping up with jonses.....

Let ME figure out what I like and don't like, do NOT tell me what I should like........everyone around have done this crap to me (including my parents) my entire life.

Or how about "religion", I come from a country where religion is #1 (most churches per capita int he world at the time........over the years, I figured out that religion is .........well, you tube George Carlin on religion and you will get the point.

You get the point.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

My IQ is 137 ...I have two college diplomas. My husband didn't even finish 9th grade...want to know what his IQ is? 187. Yup not a typo. Intelligence is not measured by a bachelors degree.

Be grateful for what you have and learn to let go and just be. Learn to realize intelligence and book smart don't equate respect and equality.


Oh and I should add he has ADHD/OCD. ADHD is considered a form of learning disability. He owns his own successful business, was a career trucker (he is in entertainment now, a deejay) and tow truck driver. I'm number dyslexic and he is a math wiz. He is very logical and has a deep capacity to work out something faster than the average person. Also a human compass ...quite literally can stick him blind folded in the bush and he will find his way home no problem.

Also, his spacial vision is phenomenal and he can tell you what something weighs just by picking it up (usually spot on or within ounces). Remembers everything, extremely organized and can hear a pin drop in a rave!

Never finished 9th grade...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

DoF said:


> Although your point is real, to me human is human........regardless what color/race they are.
> 
> It's HUMAN's responsibility to figure out how these "cultures" divide people and force "things" down their throat.....for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


Maybe... If the guy is knowledgable of her culture and her his (and language., traditions and customs), it is a huge advantage. If he's a mountain tortoise... Really not a great fit off the bat.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Here is my take on Pareto's rule- as applied in relationships- 

And I only use 20% in theory- to relate it to the rule. I went on here- to see if that 20% is not something that will GROW- and really tear us apart down the road. Will this 20% grow and turn into an 80%?

About an hour ago- my SO texted me, and this is what that text said. "Obama has his big speech tonight on plans for ISIS. I downloaded CNN app. Gone start keeping up on current affairs. Next time- Like the app, easy to follow." 

That text made me smile. He knows I am a Fox news watcher. I vote Republican on fiscal policy, and vary from the left to right with my social platforms. He votes Democrat on fiscal policy- and has varying views on social platforms. 

So I guess we are going to have to watch CNN half the time for news!! Anderson Cooper and Bill O'Reilly under one roof! hehe. 

And I also like to add- the acquaintances ( I refer to all people besides my four close friends, as acquaintances, but of course- I call them a friend to their face- because, they are- but just needs more time)- that he and I develop from work, and all other social settings- they all mesh very well. He gets along w/ my acquaintances, and I get along with his.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Hmmm. No one asked if the guy is the same race or not. She could be dealing with cultural issues (be it the guy is same or different race). If brought up already, sorry I missed it in the thread.


No worries- Ive been typing REALLY long paragraphs in this thread! Yes- he is caucasian. So is my kids' dad. This was important for me- both of these guys- show alot of outward love. They are very emotionally nurturing to my kids. They know how to play and talk to them- in a fun way. As silly as it sounds- I don't. I know how to take them on play dates, and sit with them while they play. I know how to take them to parks, and run around on the playground with them. I know how to go down slides. But i do not know how to play. Its REALLY strange-


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Here is my take on Pareto's rule- as applied in relationships-
> 
> And I only use 20% in theory- to relate it to the rule. I went on here- to see if that 20% is not something that will GROW- and really tear us apart down the road. Will this 20% grow and turn into an 80%?
> 
> ...


A great man will take interest in what you love.

So, how often have you done this sort of thing he just did FOR HIM?



Even though above is great, it's nothing that we didn't already know. We know he is a good man, the big question is, are you a great partner as well? 

Based on what you told us, I don't think so. Not if you put your kids.......job and parents ahead of him.

Sorry

Please make sure he knows your priorities (he deserves to know!!!)

Also, you said that "I am #5 after him"

You are NOT being honest with yourself or us. You are lying!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Maybe... If the guy is knowledgable of her culture and her his (and language., traditions and customs), it is a huge advantage. If he's a mountain tortoise... Really not a great fit off the bat.


Can't disagree

BUT if people are smart, considerate and reasonable......I think it has 0 effect on relationship.

In this case, you have a point.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

Originally Posted by texasoutlaw82 View Post
I just keep seeing a revolving circle with no definitive end. There's not even a means to an end. You're asking other people to solve a problem that, ultimately, you must make and live with. I keep seeing all these layers masking the original issue. 

What is a forum for? Oh- I suppose i'm supposed to make a decision in three days huh. What am I asking anyone to solve?* I lack the emotionally maturity to have realistic expectations.* I need people to help me wake up.

The issue is identified from your own mouth. You're on this forum for people to "help wake you up."

You're looking for resolution to a problem you have on a forum designed to assist people of all walks of life. I almost think that no one has provided a solid answer that provides you the comfort and solace you seek. For the love of baby jesus and mother earth stop looking for reasons to divide and look for reasons to conquer.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

CantePe said:


> My IQ is 137 ...I have two college diplomas. My husband didn't even finish 9th grade...want to know what his IQ is? 187. Yup not a typo. Intelligence is not measured by a bachelors degree.
> 
> Be grateful for what you have and learn to let go and just be. *Learn to realize intelligence and book smart don't equate respect and equality.*
> 
> ...


I'm tired of beating this dead horse. Thats not what I want from him. And as i stated earlier in the thread- from today- he wanted, in that instance, to understand what was going on. 

As long as he wants to nurture his brain with more knowledge- doesn't what matter that knowledge is. He IS an INTELLECTUAL. No one can deem what knowledge is more IMPORTANT. 

My concern was that he lacks some fundamental logic- that might cause me or my kids harm. It will probably never happen. Or it might. As i said earlier- one time- he let my kid stick a plastic rod into an electric socket. Later that day when I was cleaning their room, I found it. Asked him about it. he said he saw him do it, but since plastic does not conduct electricity, the kid can not hurt himself, so he continued to let him do it. He is correct that it does not conduct electricity, but he did not understand that a toddler does know not know the difference between sticking a metal rod, vs a plastic one in. So if one works, then he might stick something different in it later. 

Another example is- at his place, he has candles that look really real. They flicker- and everything. He always lets my kids play with them, until I come in the room. Over christmas, he let my older son pick up a candle that he thought was fake. My kid came back with melted wax on his clothes. No big deal. He was scalded slightly- and not very scared. After this- he understood what I was saying. And no. I did not yell at him. I hate nagging bc I think I am probably more of a nagger than I realize.

So one of the things I wanted to find out - is- is this something to worry about? Or is he just being a guy? I know as a mother- we have to think the way a 2 year old would handle the situation.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I
> My concern was that he lacks some fundamental logic- that might cause me or my kids harm. It will probably never happen. Or it might. As i said earlier- one time- he let my kid stick a plastic rod into an electric socket. Later that day when I was cleaning their room, I found it. Asked him about it. he said he saw him do it, but since plastic does not conduct electricity, the kid can not hurt himself, so he continued to let him do it. He is correct that it does not conduct electricity, but he did not understand that a toddler does know not know the difference between sticking a metal rod, vs a plastic one in. So if one works, then he might stick something different in it later.
> 
> Another example is- at his place, he has candles that look really real. They flicker- and everything. He always lets my kids play with them, until I come in the room. Over christmas, he let my older son pick up a candle that he thought was fake. My kid came back with melted wax on his clothes. No big deal. He was scalded slightly- and not very scared. After this- he understood what I was saying. And no. I did not yell at him. I hate nagging bc I think I am probably more of a nagger than I realize.


ohh my lord, you are SO picky it's not even funny anymore.

You need tough love!!! I will warn you, this will be harsh, but you need to hear it.

FIRST, he is NOT a parent. Watch your own darn kids.....

2nd, be glad there is a guy on this planet that will even date you.......LONG before they get into long term relationship with you. 

3rd, you are NOT that smart. If you were, you wouldn't be a single mother of 2 kids........nitpicking at crap that YOU should be doing and blaming your partner.

Your boyfriend should probably have 0 interest in your kids, YET he takes the initiative to be helpful/father role.....and you nitpick at him for BS?

Stop being so F'in paranoid. BILLIONS of kids (including me) were raise in houses with electrical outlets and no f'in covers.

BILLIONS of kids grew up learning that when they touch fire, it will hurt.

At this point, I'm not really sure if you deserve our help. I know 100% that you don't deserve your boyfriend.

:scratchhead:

I dare you, send him a link to this page. PLEASE!!!! If he even has an OUNCE of "intelligence" he will kick your butt to the curb. I know I would if I was to find out that I was not my SO #1.....and never will be. 

Your partner is NOT your "sidekick"......

Also, in 5-10 years your ENTIRE perspective on parenting will change. Your kids will go from YOU being the center of universe to their friends being the center. 

You are a young parent and have a LONG road ahead.....and a LOT to learn.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Perhaps Ice likes the alpha types for producing the kids, now interviewing betas for stable lifetime support?

That might explain a few things.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> My concern was that he lacks some fundamental logic- that might cause me or my kids harm. It will probably never happen. Or it might. As i said earlier- one time- he let my kid stick a plastic rod into an electric socket. Later that day when I was cleaning their room, I found it. Asked him about it. he said he saw him do it, but since plastic does not conduct electricity, the kid can not hurt himself, so he continued to let him do it. He is correct that it does not conduct electricity, but he did not understand that a toddler does know not know the difference between sticking a metal rod, vs a plastic one in. So if one works, then he might stick something different in it later.
> 
> Another example is- at his place, he has candles that look really real. They flicker- and everything. He always lets my kids play with them, until I come in the room. Over christmas, he let my older son pick up a candle that he thought was fake. My kid came back with melted wax on his clothes. No big deal. He was scalded slightly- and not very scared. After this- he understood what I was saying. And no. I did not yell at him. I hate nagging bc I think I am probably more of a nagger than I realize.
> 
> So one of the things I wanted to find out - is- is this something to worry about? Or is he just being a guy? I know as a mother- we have to think the way a 2 year old would handle the situation.


This is not a logic or intelligence issue. It's a parenting issue. Many people, especially those who have not had experience in caring for small children, need to learn how to be parents of small children. They may not see why something is a problem because they've never had to baby-proof or toddler-proof a house. 

Also, men have different perspectives on this. Whereas a mom might see her son climbing a tree and freak out about falling and potential broken arms or necks, a dad might see his boy is learning to use his body and muscles (and is strong enough and coordinated enough) to climb trees, hooray! Both perspectives have merit and neither parent is "right" or "wrong."


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, you should consider that he's not really all that dumb. It could be that he let your kids do things that he knew would upset you, and also is trying to figure out your limits and secretly likes to see you upset. You are adding up a lot of his good qualities and trying to make a case for staying with him...well, is there anything that really bothers you? Like instead of saying he lets the kids do those things because he's ill-informed and making other excuses for other things, maybe he just likes to mess up your grocery stickers because he knows you care! Just be careful, everyone has an Achille's heel, yours might be thinking you are too smart to be fooled. I have a lot of respect for my ex, he put me in touch with my street smarts, that I thought I would be able to let go of once in an established career, and as an adult. Well, it turns out that people don't grow out of their teenage bullying, thieving, larceny, misogyny...they just grow better at hiding it and looking for more challenging targets. 

Just thought I'd put another perspective on it.
Just because you're smart doesn't mean you can't/won't end up in an abusive relationship. Instead of or in addition to assessing his intelligence, see if you really trust him. If the answer is no, look for reasons other than his stupidity. 

Why is such a nice so-so motivated guy with a woman who has two young kids? Especially a good looking woman with good income earning potential? I should have asked myself that same question. hahahahah. We can laugh about it now, as I finally caught him out at his game, checkmated him and walked away looking pretty good. My kidsa nd I laugh about it now...but, results may vary.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Wow... This really isn't an intelligence issue at all or intellectual equality.

I'm a mom of 5 kids (husband is the father of all 5 by the way)

You are worrying over stuff that may or may not happen, probability of those extreme scenarios are unlikely.

Like another poster said, they are your kids biologically. Most men these days would run the other way. Perhaps you need to look deep within for the answer as to why you are subconsciously or even consciously in some instances sabotaging a perfectly good relationship...have you ever considered that the problems you have described lay truly with you rather than him?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

How are you going to cope when your child is out of sight with their friends? Riding a school bus to a field trip or going on their first solo flight? What if they choose to ride horses, motorcycles or own a bar? What are you going to do about all the different teachers they have in their lives? How about the neighbors dog down the street eyeing your kid every time she/he walks by? What about when they start driving? 

My husband and I have "different" intelligence from each other. Both strong, but both very unique. At times I have worried a bit about my spouses reaction to things. He is phobic about our son swimming for some reason and we don't know why that surfaced, but we just work through it together. On my side.. I am a bit phobic about something bad happening to his hands, have been since the day he was born, but we just work through that together. I don't know why those things surfaced. They just did. 

I believe you are over thinking.

If your man is great to you and your kids, enjoy him!

Differences in raising can be worked on together.

And I don't mean the high fret stuff either... 
This is a trust and need to control/fear issue for you... How do I know... because I have had to learn to relax from the same... 

Right now... I am with a man who cheated on me, was abusive after our child arrived, and we are in a reconciliation process. How can I know it won't happen again... I don't. 

I worked / work on me, I focus on maintaining a loving, REASONABLY safe home and trust God.

I grew up in a time where at 6 years of age I would hike five miles from my home and find my way back... we live in a different era now and I'm not sure it's "better" because we end up with mothers who are neurotic about child safety. 

My H and I took a trip from Virginia to Alabama and my child who was only 2.5 at the time had to sit in a seat belt for 15 hours straight because the traffic was bad. I HAD to take him out of that seat that last hour. He was freaking out, but we HAD to get home and it just reminded me that when I was growing up, we rode around without seat belts, rode in the back of pick up trucks, etc. Things were so different... it's why I LOVE Brad Stines DVD "Put a helmet on!" 

my advice after rambling.... relax! enjoy your man! love your babies! trust God!! That is all...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think he is a great man, good man, but if you do not respect him intellectually this will erode with time your respect for him. Doesn't matter if that;s good or bad, I believe this is reality of life. It is important to be able to have intellectual conversation with your spouse, on the same level. It creates additional bonding and understanding. And it is apparent that this is important to you, that's why you have doubts and ask question, because you can feel it inside you.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> I think he is a great man, good man, but if you do not respect him intellectually this will erode with time your respect for him. Doesn't matter if that;s good or bad, I believe this is reality of life. It is important to be able to have intellectual conversation with your spouse, on the same level. It creates additional bonding and understanding. And it is apparent that this is important to you, that's why you have doubts and ask question, because you can feel it inside you.


Well, to be honest with you....one can say that talking politics is not something "intellectual" to begin with. hehe


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

DoF said:


> Well, to be honest with....one can say that talking politics is not something "intellectual" to begin with. hehe



In my Southern vernacular "Ain't that the dang truth"


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess, do yourself a favor and GET Brad Stine's video "Put a Helmet On" and watch it with your SO! That would be a GREAT step to learning how to relax and I have a feeling you will glean a LOT from that show.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> OP, you should consider that he's not really all that dumb. It could be that he let your kids do things that he knew would upset you, and also is trying to figure out your limits and secretly likes to see you upset. You are adding up a lot of his good qualities and trying to make a case for staying with him...well, is there anything that really bothers you? Like instead of saying he lets the kids do those things because he's ill-informed and making other excuses for other things, maybe he just likes to mess up your grocery stickers because he knows you care! Just be careful, everyone has an Achille's heel, yours might be thinking you are too smart to be fooled. I have a lot of respect for my ex, he put me in touch with my street smarts, that I thought I would be able to let go of once in an established career, and as an adult. Well, it turns out that people don't grow out of their teenage bullying, thieving, larceny, misogyny...they just grow better at hiding it and looking for more challenging targets.
> 
> Just thought I'd put another perspective on it.
> Just because you're smart doesn't mean you can't/won't end up in an abusive relationship. Instead of or in addition to assessing his intelligence, see if you really trust him. If the answer is no, look for reasons other than his stupidity.
> ...


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> How are you going to cope when your child is out of sight with their friends? Riding a school bus to a field trip or going on their first solo flight? What if they choose to ride horses, motorcycles or own a bar? What are you going to do about all the different teachers they have in their lives? How about the neighbors dog down the street eyeing your kid every time she/he walks by? What about when they start driving?
> 
> *I do not bug my kids' dad much. I chose to trust. But this man- used to be a complete stranger to my kids. As i stated earlier- i asked- if this was something to worry about- or he is just being a guy. And i believe i got my answer- He is just being a guy *
> 
> ...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm 45


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This may help you to put your intellect into a perspective. Your parents and primary family started you off with good principles. Don't stagnate with the visions of a child. 

Extraordinary talent or intellect or beauty are burdens that carry the heavy weight of responsibility. These gifts don't belong to vessel that contains them because they did nothing to earn it. An unearned gift should engender a deep sense of humility, a well of gratitude, a striving to be worthy and sense of responsibility to use it to the common good. 

You are a believer so you are familiar with the parable of the Faithful Servant. There is a wealth of principles in that one lesson, not the lest of which is "to whomever much is given, of him will much be required". There is nothing of pride but a lot about service. I am compelled to ask what you think of Mensa. It seems like a wasteland. I can think of no organization that is more arid and empty. What good does it do but encourage pride among those who should be washing the feet of beggars. 

Use your fine ability to reflect and consider how you live your life. You may be using intelligence and long hrs of labour to distance yourself from average men and women. More importantly, you don't have time to immerse yourself in your emotional life. How can you serve if you are not in the mist of people who need the power of your gifts and in touch with how you feel not what you think? 

IP, get out of your head and live. Get dirty, have fun, laugh, be passionate, be thoughtless. Recognize all of the good in your life that has nothing to do with hard work ( like your man). Completely forget about your IQ and yourself. Live like you are a servant to a beggar. 

For your consideration.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, lying is lying. You cannot make excuses for someone else's lies to you. Well, you can, and it can sound so rational, but they are still lies, and that makes the person who told them, a liar. It's just misplaced generosity on your part, excusing lies and justifying them on account of his pride as compared to your capabilities. No lie to a partner is justified, ever. 

People can also make all kinds of excuses for their lies. But, they are still a liar. Also a quibbler. You just can't win with these kinds of people. And as far as abuse goes, well, maybe it starts with little things with your kids and your game stickers...then after he moves in and the kids get attached to him, and he meets all your friends, etc. he starts pushing more limits, and after marriage, he will threaten to leave, say maybe you should get a divorce, aren't meant for each other. When people lie, and let you know they are a liar, you should pay attention, not start running logic circles around the truth.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> IP, get out of your head and live. Get dirty, have fun, laugh, be passionate, be thoughtless. Recognize all of the good in your life that has nothing to do with hard work ( like your man). Completely forget about your IQ and yourself.


:iagree: 

Get out of your head and do things, preferably new things with your bf. Try new things together until you find something you both enjoy. Live the life you have instead of thinking about it so much.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

norajane said:


> This is not a logic or intelligence issue. It's a parenting issue. Many people, especially those who have not had experience in caring for small children, need to learn how to be parents of small children. They may not see why something is a problem because they've never had to baby-proof or toddler-proof a house.
> 
> *Also, men have different perspectives on this.* Whereas a mom might see her son climbing a tree and freak out about falling and potential broken arms or necks, a dad might see his boy is learning to use his body and muscles (and is strong enough and coordinated enough) to climb trees, hooray! Both perspectives have merit and neither parent is "right" or "wrong."


:iagree:
This is an absolute truth. Wish more women and moms understood this


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> :iagree:
> This is an absolute truth. Wish more women and moms understood this


To their defense, we do have our media,politics and sociaty constantly putting fear into Americans.......so people will be effected.

But yeah, whenever you have 1 parent missing in kids life....they will be effected. Unless, other men step up and take that role, but we all know most mothers won't allow that "as it's not their kid" etc.

Thus I recommend to staying COMPLETELY away from news. There is NOTHING positive about news or politics. It will make you paranoid and depressed. 

I remember back in my home country (communist country too) news was great. Here in US, it's pathetic. And you are damn right that there is more propaganda and BS that this country feeds you.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> In my Southern vernacular "Ain't that the dang truth"


And for person to BELIEVE what government is telling them.......knowing history and track record.....is pretty naive and quite ignorant if you ask me.

Opposite of "intellectual".


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I think I understand a little bit better what the OP is trying to say. It's not so much of the intelligence factor as the "progressive thinking" factor. Where I live there are LOTS of stagnant brains. People who do not realize there is life beyond this small town. I'm happy that they are happy, but that's not what I want in a partner. Lucky for me, I met a transplant (as am I) that has life experience and can adapt to change or new ideas decently well.

My ex was an incredibly smart man. He won national level chess tournaments (in his rating, not GM or anything, but still.) There is no way I would EVER be able to win a game of chess against him. I'm just not that "puzzle" minded. However, he had ZERO drive or ambition. I would try to get him to tell me about his goals and dreams in life and he never had an answer. Sometimes he would say something that might tickle his fancy, but it would always die off and never be mentioned again. As someone who has known what she has wanted ultimately since a small child, that drove me nuts. It's kind of hard to explain, since not everyone knows what they want "when they grow up." And that is ok......but it was the lack of desire to have ANYthing at all that worried me about him. 

My current BF has no future "goals"....nothing he can put a label to. But he is driven and ambitious. He is not stagnant, and wants to keep moving, even if he doens't know what direction it's in. (Big difference between moving and being blown, however. He is very much responsible and takes care of business.) I adore that about him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Where in my posts from today- have I continued to list his faults? Where in my posts from yesterday have i done that? They were posted in a few of my initial posts on the first day (today is third day of this thread).
> 
> These are funny responses for a person seeking help. Especially after I stated how I am starting to see how unimportant the few issues I have with him are, in addition to announcing confirmation of my own suspicions that some of my perceptions are very ludicrous. And that- amidst all this- I can not change overnight- otherwise it is not genuine*. If I say- THANKS GUYS!! I'VE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH HIM. Any of you with an ounce of common sense, would know i'm lying*.


Ok so dump him.

Problem solved.

Your original post:



IcePrincess28 said:


> But I find myself at a standstill with moving forward bc of my lack of respect for his brain power. Should I just stop wasting his time and let him go? Is it possible for him to change? Should I change and just be okay with it? I'm a festering type of person. Very few things bother me, but the ones that do- if not addressed- will turn into a blowout- and i mean this on a literal and figurative level. Am i just being too picky bc I'm a nerd?


Anytime you are waiting for someone to change, yes, you are wasting your time. 

It seems you want him to be the idea of what you want him to be, not who he really is.

Again, I will say, it seems you don't really want to be with him. So if it makes you happier to not be, just end it.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Dump him for sure, he is no good!!! 



(just trying to save this guy at this point) hehe


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Its truly about learning to relax, but guide where necessary...

I have horses and when people get around my horses who have never had horses I lovingly guide them on how to not put themselves or my horses in unnecessary jeopardy. That's my job. I do not assume they know the first thing about proper safety around horses for themselves or my boys (horses). If I know that I know more, I share, but the trick is to not go overboard with it. I can't control everything and sometimes you have to learn from mistakes. Sometimes those are the better lessons since they typically carry the pain as a reminder to not do that again. 

I get what you are saying about the candle and the light socket... but I will tell you that one of the differences between men and women is that women have a huge radar compared to men (in general). Its one reason why they can make decisions so well since their radar is not as "cluttered" with noise like ours is. So, this "not thinking beyond the candle and light socket" will not likely be "solved" by taking on another man, his "not thinking beyonds" will just be a different flavor. (No offense to the guys) Some guys have larger radars than others and typically those are the one's who make GREAT horsemen, but in general its the Mars and Venus thing. And that's ok. I don't want my husband like me.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Its truly about learning to relax, but guide where necessary...
> 
> I have horses and when people get around my horses who have never had horses I lovingly guide them on how to not put themselves or my horses in unnecessary jeopardy. That's my job. I do not assume they know the first thing about proper safety around horses for themselves or my boys (horses). If I know that I know more, I share, but the trick is to not go overboard with it. I can't control everything and sometimes you have to learn from mistakes. Sometimes those are the better lessons since they typically carry the pain as a reminder to not do that again.
> 
> I get what you are saying about the candle and the light socket... but I will tell you that one of the differences between men and women is that women have a huge radar compared to men (in general). Its one reason why they can make decisions so well since their radar is not as "cluttered" with noise like ours is. So, this "not thinking beyond the candle and light socket" will not likely be "solved" by taking on another man, his "not thinking beyonds" will just be a different flavor. (No offense to the guys) Some guys have larger radars than others and typically those are the one's who make GREAT horsemen, but in general its the Mars and Venus thing. And that's ok. I don't want my husband like me.


I still think she should be thankful that there is man out there that 
a) will date her
b) will watch her kids
c) will play a father figure role

To ignore all of the above and nitpick at the things she is nitpicking at is simply ridicules.

I know her user name had sarcastic feeling to it, but she is really living up to it now.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Gratitude for what you have, learning to enjoy it is DEFINITELY part of that relaxation technique.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Gratitude for what you have, learning to enjoy it is DEFINITELY part of that relaxation technique.


But at the same time and to OP defense, often, us human beings.....naturally forget about these things.......especially as we get caught up in life.....and especially when one lives in a big city (to be honest, not sure how people raise families in cities......)


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

I cant help but hear this little voice in the back of my head saying: 

"Is it me? Or does anyone else think this may be a very tightly wrapped and extremly controlled Mid Life Crisis?"


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> I cant help but hear this little voice in the back of my head saying:
> 
> "Is it me? Or does anyone else think this may be a very tightly wrapped and extremly controlled Mid Life Crisis?"


I think she is a bit too young for that.

OP can leave (and should leave cause I honestly don't think she is a good relationship material and want her boyfriend to have what he deserves).......

But she is in for a SHOCK if she thinks she will get her "intellectual" as a single mother of 2 kids and all of that baggage.

Not many NORMAL men on this planet will touch that with a 100 foot pole. Forget about ANYONE that's smart or "intellectual".

And fact that she is NOT willing to make her loved one a priority (in time of course).......she is simply not ready for ANY relationships right now.

Let's assume all the man on this forum as single right now. How many would ever consider dating OP?

First vote for NO


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> This may help you to put your intellect into a perspective. Your parents and primary family started you off with good principles. Don't stagnate with the visions of a child.
> 
> Extraordinary talent or intellect or beauty are burdens that carry the heavy weight of responsibility. These gifts don't belong to vessel that contains them because they did nothing to earn it. An unearned gift should engender a deep sense of humility, a well of gratitude, a striving to be worthy and sense of responsibility to use it to the common good.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your well thought out responses! These past several days have given been a lot to think about.

It's funny you should ask. I know NOTHING of Mensa. My parents to this day- still hand me the magazines they send. And I throw it in the trash. They have local get togethers - for every state- and I've never been to one. 

But I did read the first magazine I ever received from them. It was an article about the members of Mensa. They said their organization had high school drop outs, scientists, people who suffered from drug addictions, tons of professionals, tons of people who did physical labor- ie construction work, etc, and a good number of people who were unemployed. Politicians. People from all walks of life. 

So I have no feelings of ill will towards Mensa. An IQ simply means you know have better problem solving skills. It's actually people's preconceived notion in here- that a person who stated they have a IQ- is a pompous prick. 

I've been more forthcoming with my faults than anyone in here. Yet I've been bashed on bc I stated that my parents forced me to take an IQ exam when I was 15, so they could send the scores to Mensa and put Mensa on my college applications. 

Do I think that I do have better problem solving skills than my SO? Yes. I brought up a numerical score bc I wanted to know if I was being unrealistic with my fears of the way my SO processed certain things. The answer I got, overall- is yes. 

This is not directed at you Catherine- 

I'm tired of getting bashed on for staying that I am an intellectual (love to learn). Many of you- took "college" "Mensa" "intellectual" and immediately jumped at calling me pretentious and big ego- when I'm been so critical of myself- and admire So many traits of my SO- stating how much I wish I could be more like him. 

I did not go about talking about how much $$ I make. What brand cars I have. How big and better my house is. But many of you - took my simple stating of certain achievements I have made, hobbies I enjoy, - as me being uppity.

Many of you criticized me- but I read the well meaning intentions behind it. And I took the good with the bad. But some of you- were downright bullies. And you should be ashamed of yourself. You think I'm ACTING as though I'm better? Do you see how you yourself sound? A couple of you liked the comment about - how that poster will laugh when I get dumped for a waitress? And some of those likes where given by people who gave me very good criticism btw. Those- are passive aggressive bullies. Looking for ways to lash at people - while attempting to fly under the radar as a well intentioned poster.

Those people will be added to my ignore list. I have a thick skin and I'm here to save my relationship. And hope to turn it into a marriage- and to become the woman my man deserves. 

Wholeheartedly Ive benefited from the positive and well intentioned negative criticism most of you gave me. Please continue- don't hold back- and as for the bullies- say whatever you like to the rest of the forum- but I won't be able to read it.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Have you sent him the link to this page or communicated that he will NEVER be your #1?

That's really all I would like know at this point.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

CantePe said:


> Wow... This really isn't an intelligence issue at all or intellectual equality.
> 
> I'm a mom of 5 kids (husband is the father of all 5 by the way)
> 
> ...


Times are changing- in today's world- it matters less- if a woman has kids from a prior relationship- as long as she shows that she is able to care for them financially- as well as have plenty of help in watching them- so that the new relationship- can have private time. 

I have always felt that the problem is ME. I stated certain background information about myself- to see if I was setting unrealistic criteria, if I was nit picking- and they all came back- as an overall YES. 

I've been in MANY bad relationships. They cost me many different things- (I'm sure everyone here has). Money. House. TIME. Stress. Attorney fees. Relocation, and how they affect those around you. Moving. Dental bill- for a root canal, from when my ex husband punched me in the face. My divorce resulted in me moving from one state to another- and I had to travel and stay in a hotel for work, until I found a new job. Change of salary. AND I'M ONLY 28. I can not make bad judgement calls if i can help it. 

My parents watched me suffer- thru one divorce and another bad relationship split. They could not see the pain in my face. But they could see the weight loss. I'm about 100lbs on a normal day (i'm 5'3") - I will never forget the look of horror and pain when my parents saw me walk into dinner- with a suit jacket that looked like it was going to drape me- because i had dropped down to 87 lbs. I know those of you who have been through that deep depression- know what I am talking about.

But now- I need to make sure- before I do something that involves my kids. They already have friends in this area that they see several times a day. My parents live 5 minutes away. Moving forward, would mean moving to a different area. Away from their friends- which is fine- bc they will make NEW friends- but they need stability. They need to stay in the same new house. Same new soccer team. They need to see that Mom has the same- HUSBAND (hopefully)- all their lives- so they will at least have those items in their tool box. 

For those of you who seem like you want me to make up my decision in a hurry- am I bothering you with my posts? Is there a reason why you seem to want me to make up my mind right here? In this country- there this culture where everyone wants things right now. The divorce rate, IMO, is much higher than 50%.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> OP, lying is lying. You cannot make excuses for someone else's lies to you. Well, you can, and it can sound so rational, but they are still lies, and that makes the person who told them, a liar. It's just misplaced generosity on your part, excusing lies and justifying them on account of his pride as compared to your capabilities. No lie to a partner is justified, ever.
> 
> *I do not know a single person that does not lie. What matters of course- is- what are they lying about? how many husbands tell their wives, "no hunny- those jeans do not make your butt look big." I'm not too concerned about that area- (in terms of what we are currently going thru regarding the few times he lies)- or at least, as of yet. *
> 
> ...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Times are changing- in today's world- it matters less- if a woman has kids from a prior relationship- as long as she shows that she is able to care for them financially- as well as have plenty of help in watching them- so that the new relationship- can have private time.
> 
> I have always felt that the problem is ME. I stated certain background information about myself- to see if I was setting unrealistic criteria, if I was nit picking- and they all came back- as an overall YES.
> 
> ...


Look, we are not trying to offend you or make you into a miserable person. I don't think you are one, not at all. Seems like you are a good supporting mother.

We are trying to help you. By doing so, BY DEFAULT you will hear things that you don't want to hear.

DO NOT take offense to any of it. At the end of the day it's YOUR choice to take whatever advice you want and apply it as you see fit.

WHATEVER you do, DOES NOT matter to ANY of us. We are just curious about updates perhaps.

But there HAS been thing you said that we know you absolutely will not change (like priorities)......which I think are the core of your issues.

So let me approach it yet again, from a different perspective.

Would you EVEr date a man that told you "you will NEVER be my #1 and I will always put my kids 1st and parents AND job before you"?

If you can answer that for me, that would be great.

READ - put yourself in your boyfriends shoes. Do you realize how degrading and offensive it is to put "something/anything" before a HUMAN that you love (in your case JOB).



IcePrincess28 said:


> But now- I need to make sure- before I do something that involves my kids. They already have friends in this area that they see several times a day. My parents live 5 minutes away. Moving forward, would mean moving to a different area. Away from their friends- which is fine- bc they will make NEW friends- but they need stability. They need to stay in the same new house. Same new soccer team. They need to see that Mom has the same- HUSBAND (hopefully)- all their lives- so they will at least have those items in their tool box.


NONE of the things you defined above are NEEDS.

Those are simply your preferences. Your kids will be JUST fine with move/new home etc etc.

NEED = shelter and food



IcePrincess28 said:


> For those of you who seem like you want me to make up my decision in a hurry- am I bothering you with my posts? Is there a reason why you seem to want me to make up my mind right here? In this country- there this culture where everyone wants things right now. The divorce rate, IMO, is much higher than 50%.


Not sure where you get this impression. Nobody here is in hurry and nobody really cares what you do.

But at this point, based on what you said, I think your boyfriend deserves to know that he will NEVER be where he SHOULD be with you.

If you can answer the question above, I think you will agree as well.

PLEASE TELL HIM

Also remember, most of us here are way past our 20s and the things you have been dealing with are no different than others here. Heck MANY have struggled WAY more than you.

You don't have to state the details of these events, we assume that....we have been there!!!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Jobs come and go, hobbies come and go, interests come and go, but the loved ones in your life, and the joy you get from your relationships with them, are what matters most. If you prioritize your lover lower on the totem pole than your job, there is an element of life you are missing that you would likely regret later.

Look, I come from an immigrant background, heavy emphasis on education as a way to lift myself out of near poverty, heavy emphasis on succeeding and being able to support myself with a good job. Those are good lessons to learn, but they miss the one that's most important and is usually taken as a given - none of those things are a comfort if you push people away because of them.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

norajane said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Get out of your head and do things, preferably new things with your bf. Try new things together until you find something you both enjoy. Live the life you have instead of thinking about it so much.


This is why its important for him to be an intellectual. Again- an intellectual, to me, is a person who always wants to learn new things. It can be anything.

I am always the one to initiate new things. Here are the new things that he's done with me, that he has not done before:

Go to a romantic cooking class (he loves to eat, and enjoys watching me cook), go to gun shows, volunteer at homeless shelters to serve food, volunteer for United Way at their sorting facility for donated goods, build rifles, shooting ranges, we checked out several national parks that he has not been to- but was only 25 minutes from him, do art crafts (he is really good at it) like painting pottery, Go to sky zone (trampoline place- where trampolines are places side by side over the entire stretch of floor as well as slanted along the walls, take vacation in an ocean side city, rock climbing, go to concerts, go to a ballet (it was a winter themed one by Tchaikovsky - so he actually enjoyed it), check out Cross fit (he ended up liking it and started taking cross fit), go to a drive in movie theater, hang out at a bookstore and just browse some books, run in a couple 5K charity runs, get massages at my spa (he claimed he was only with it only bc he "hurt" his back a little- and yes he really enjoyed it!), go to the archery range. 

Here are the things that he and I did, that he introduced to me: going to a winery, and staying the night at a cottage on the winery. 

A lot of the activities that he proposes, are- going fishing, and bringing some beer. Sitting around a bonfire- with his friends. Going out to a restaurant, and having dinner, then drinks at the bar. Going to the gym. And gardening ( I love helping him with that.) And I do- do that. But i'm 28- not 21. This is where opinions will vary- some are okay with wanting a partner that is relaxed and stays around home. But I want to explore.

Its just important for me to have a partner who always desires to learn new things- bc I believe that with learning, comes wanting to experience. Yes- most of the things mentioned above- do not involve learning- but I believe experiencing is very similar, if not, quite often the exact same thing- depending on the circumstance. 

Does he enjoy everything we do? He sure seems to act like it. But another worry of mine- is if we got married- what if the effort stops- and it turns out this whole time he's been just trying to please me- and now- its- "you go out and do your stuff- and i'll stay at home." 

Its just important to me, that we don't fall into a cycle of all work, no fun. Some weekends- we just relax and enjoy each other's company at home. But most of the time- we go out and do things.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

norajane said:


> Jobs come and go, hobbies come and go, interests come and go, but the loved ones in your life, and the joy you get from your relationships with them, are what matters most. If you prioritize your lover lower on the totem pole than your job, there is an element of life you are missing that you would likely regret later.
> 
> Look, I come from an immigrant background, heavy emphasis on education as a way to lift myself out of near poverty, heavy emphasis on succeeding and being able to support myself with a good job. Those are good lessons to learn, but they miss the one that's most important and is usually taken as a given - none of those things are a comfort if you push people away because of them.


Good post, agreed.

You can even apply above to friends as well. PLENTY of people out there that put more emphasis/priorities on friends than loved ones.

Friends come and go as well.....

And your kids will go too OP. Accept it NOW.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> This is why its important for him to be an intellectual. Again- an intellectual, to me, is a person who always wants to learn new things. It can be anything.


By living, BY DEFAULT you learn new things every day. As you experience new things and learn from them.

You don't actually have to CHASE this.....not at all.



IcePrincess28 said:


> I am always the one to initiate new things. Here are the new things that he's done with me, that he has not done before:
> 
> Go to a romantic cooking class (he loves to eat, and enjoys watching me cook), go to gun shows, volunteer at homeless shelters to serve food, volunteer for United Way at their sorting facility for donated goods, build rifles, shooting ranges, we checked out several national parks that he has not been to- but was only 25 minutes from him, do art crafts (he is really good at it) like painting pottery, Go to sky zone (trampoline place- where trampolines are places side by side over the entire stretch of floor as well as slanted along the walls, take vacation in an ocean side city, rock climbing, go to concerts, go to a ballet (it was a winter themed one by Tchaikovsky - so he actually enjoyed it), check out Cross fit (he ended up liking it and started taking cross fit), go to a drive in movie theater, hang out at a bookstore and just browse some books, run in a couple 5K charity runs, get massages at my spa (he claimed he was only with it only bc he "hurt" his back a little- and yes he really enjoyed it!), go to the archery range.
> 
> ...


From what you said above, you have an issue with your boyfriend being more involved in planning activities.

Talk to him about that and tell him it would be great if he can initiate things.

NOTHING to do with "intellectual" though.

I'm SURE he is just happy to be around/with you. Man are simple, give us companionship.....and whatever it is that we do, we love, as long as we are with our loved ones.

If YOU like planing and coming up with things, don't apply that onto him. Maybe he is not a planner.

If it's a big deal or a deal breaker, simply communicated that to him. But I think you would be really silly to make that a deal breaker. Just me though


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> I think I understand a little bit better what the OP is trying to say. It's not so much of the intelligence factor as the "progressive thinking" factor. Where I live there are LOTS of stagnant brains. People who do not realize there is life beyond this small town. I'm happy that they are happy, but that's not what I want in a partner. Lucky for me, I met a transplant (as am I) that has life experience and can adapt to change or new ideas decently well.
> 
> My ex was an incredibly smart man. He won national level chess tournaments (in his rating, not GM or anything, but still.) There is no way I would EVER be able to win a game of chess against him. I'm just not that "puzzle" minded. However, he had ZERO drive or ambition. I would try to get him to tell me about his goals and dreams in life and he never had an answer. Sometimes he would say something that might tickle his fancy, but it would always die off and never be mentioned again. As someone who has known what she has wanted ultimately since a small child, that drove me nuts. It's kind of hard to explain, since not everyone knows what they want "when they grow up." And that is ok......but it was the lack of desire to have ANYthing at all that worried me about him.
> 
> My current BF has no future "goals"....nothing he can put a label to. But he is driven and ambitious. He is not stagnant, and wants to keep moving, even if he doens't know what direction it's in. (Big difference between moving and being blown, however. He is very much responsible and takes care of business.) I adore that about him.


GA Heart- I had just came upon your post- which I did not read while I was writing my prior post (above)- Its crazy- how, as I am moving along, trying to identify what my underlining issue is- you touched upon it. 

The guy I dated in high school/beginning of college for several years- is very much like your ex. He too was good at chess, as well as an amateur computer engineer- very smart (now currently a computer engineer, and has a degree in computer science). But he stayed in the basement ALLLLLLL day. 

He always put me down, (btw- he and I tested for Mensa the same year -he was two years old than i, and we took the test before ever knowing each other. Said that females get "extra points." ) He would call me dumb, bc I was 17, and loved to watch MTV at the time. But he never left the basement. Not to socialize. Not to do anything. There was a couple times when I went out with my friends, only to get a text telling me he was dumping me. It was 3 years of dealing with someone who did not have many hobbies, nor goals. And it took me dumping him- to get out there and start doing things. 

I never realized how much he actually did care about me, until after i left. I saw him one day, about 6 months in, and he had lost a good amount of weight. But the good thing was- he got his act together. furthered his education- even studied abroad for a year!! and now is a computer engineer at some nice company, and from what I hear, goes out every now and then- to see friends.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> GA Heart- I had just came upon your post- which I did not read while I was writing my prior post (above)- Its crazy- how, as I am moving along, trying to identify what my underlining issue is- you touched upon it.
> 
> The guy I dated in high school/beginning of college for several years- is very much like your ex. He too was good at chess, as well as an amateur computer engineer- very smart (now currently a computer engineer, and has a degree in computer science). But he stayed in the basement ALLLLLLL day.
> 
> ...


So wait a min, you think that if someone doesn't like to go out much and socialize they are dumb?

:scratchhead:


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I know lots of educated a$$hole.

I know lots of uneducated a$$holes.

I tend to like people who are good people no matter what there IQ is.

but thats just me.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

DoF, I think (and I could be way off) that the OP doesn't quite know what she is seeing that she is worried about in her BF. There is a little "something" that is missing for her, and she can't quite figure it out. IQ, intellectual, whatever.....perhaps this was her way of grasping at straws to try and figure it out. 

IF (big if) my assumption of the problem being "progressive thinking" is more correct, I think I understand what she is saying. 

A lot of the men I met here were very sweet.....but simple. Work hard, go home, crack a beer, watch TV, rinse, repeat. Day in and day out. They were happy in their lives and careers and didn't want a thing to change. They didn't want to consider a promotion because that might mean more responsibility that they didn't want. They couldn't even imagine a job change because that would require learning something new. Heaven forbid they left "home" and all the same friends they've had since grade school. GREAT! It makes me happy to see people happy with their lives.

But personally, I wanted more in a partner. Someone who wasn't afraid to challenge themselves. Someone who saw adversity as advancement potential. Someone who knew that there is more to the world than this little dot on a map. To a lot of the men (and women, and sadly some of the kids) here, this dot was it. The rest of the world could crumble away and it wouldn't bother them one bit, because they had all they needed.

Adventurous? Romantic? Gypsy Soul? Diven? Ambitious? Active? There are many things that might be called. I think it comes down to a personality, honestly. Some personalities are more energetic than others. Some people crave situmulation, some are happy to veg. 

I am a single mother of 2. My BF pursued me.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You sound too much like a party girl. Where are your children when all these exciting adventures take place?

At 28, a failed marriage, two very small children and a broken picker, I don't understand what is the great rush to turn a nice man you're dating into a clone/genius of the dysfunctional world you live in.

You have self diagnosed him to have Asberger's and that simply is offensive. All because you think he failed at a silly test about knowing the three legislative branches of our government.

Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't feel the need to be as pompous as you seem to be. 

Your concern should not be whether he's intelligent enough for you, but whether he's not smart enough to dump you.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Ice,

Right brain versus left brain. How would you feel with him completely out of your life. Right now, he packs and is gone forever. No contact. No explanation. Exactly what do you feel (not think, feel). 

Clearly, you are in need of someone who compliments you and your life. Not compatible with you, but compliments you - and you him. 

You will be happier with a guy with very balanced alpha/beta characteristics. Some leadership and control capabilities that you will follow. Someone you can grow off of and be challenged by and one you can challenge too and both grow together into a greater LTR than than when you started. You seem a bit strong willed, independent and, well - entitled. A bit spoiled and princess like. You need a strong guy to control you and challenge you. 

I don't think this guy is for you. He won't lead you or challenge you in the way you need to grow (and grow up). 

That may explain your intellectual battle with yourself. I see He's not a part of the battle. He's an outsider to your world and always will be. Move on, enjoy and meet more folks. Don't settle.

Look for double happiness, not single happiness...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Revamped said:


> You sound too much like a party girl. Where are your children when all these exciting adventures take place?
> 
> At 28, a failed marriage, two very small children and a broken picker, I don't understand what is the great rush to turn a nice man you're dating into a clone/genius of the dysfunctional world you live in.
> 
> ...


And she clearly said "don't judge me while I judge him". Lol
:scratchhead:


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Q tip said:


> Ice,
> 
> Right brain versus left brain. How would you feel with him completely out of your life. Right now, he packs and is gone forever. No contact. No explanation. Exactly what do you feel (not think, feel).
> 
> ...


I tend to agree.

He sounds like a great guy, but he isn't for you. I can totally see him telling you to go do things by yourself once you are married. He will be up for some adventures, but not all the time.

I can see him having difficulty with you dropping a bunch of money on sending your kids to some private school only to create little arrogant pricks.

He is hiding things from you because of the way you treat him. You make him feel inferior to you. He will get sick of that and will eventually not just hide things from you, but tell you where you can stick you attitude.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

GA HEART said:


> DoF, I think (and I could be way off) that the OP doesn't quite know what she is seeing that she is worried about in her BF. There is a little "something" that is missing for her, and she can't quite figure it out. IQ, intellectual, whatever.....perhaps this was her way of grasping at straws to try and figure it out.
> 
> IF (big if) my assumption of the problem being* "progressive thinking" is more correct*, I think I understand what she is saying.


You are correct- 

It would be nice to have someone who has a certain thirst. My SO does not have that thirst- but he is happy to oblige to it- so that part is good. But will that last in the long run? I'm thinking- at this point- the answer would be yes- as long as its something that he and I both like- and by now, I have a pretty good read on him. 

And I am VERY confused as what my something missing is- but you are correct. As all of you can notice- there is nothing WRONG with my thinking. Its what I have been trying to convey all this time. This is why I've been needing people's perspective. If i were to tell you all that I was born with mental disabilities- and need your help- you all would jump in, and also be SUPER sympathetic about it. But when i stated I have a high IQ- the result was different. WHY? 

Many posters have backed up my concerns- and what I have been trying to say- my iq is the source of MY mental disability. Why do you think so many "nerds" just seem different??? 

At this point, if you're still trying to address me DoF- you'll realize i've ignored you. Calling me a "that"- a single mother with two kids- that no man would touch with a 100 ft pole - because I left their dad who calls me a c u n t, and is jealous and controlling- then attempting to take a poll that no one has responded to- while bashing my culture- when i've been very forthcoming with the shortcomings of my culture. I rather not take advice from such a malicious person- who spends so much time and effort on the internet- putting people down. You say a few nice things here and there- but thats just your attempt to mask your constant urge for making fun of people. Lastly- don't group yourself into "we" are only trying to help. My comment is directed at YOU, not THEM. You are a bully- and you get off on it.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Revamped said:


> You sound too much like a party girl. Where are your children when all these exciting adventures take place?
> 
> *I'm a party girl? Because I do not like to drink? Because I have only gone to a winery once? and like to do physical activities instead? Have you read my post? My kids go to their dad on saturday and come back on sunday. From your answer- it seems like you're one of those judgmental people that sit on your high horse- while you tend to your domestic duties- convincing yourself that, that alone makes you better? Who are you to call me that? *
> 
> ...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> You are correct-
> 
> It would be nice to have someone who has a certain thirst. My SO does not have that thirst- but he is happy to oblige to it- so that part is good. But will that last in the long run? I'm thinking- at this point- the answer would be yes- as long as its something that he and I both like- and by now, I have a pretty good read on him.
> 
> ...


Was dad that bad before marriage? Any signs of this? Try not to overcompensate with a guy opposite of this. You'll have issues too. Different, but possibly just as frustrating....?


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

"i am not sure as to how i will find out if he is dyslexic or not- without hurting his feelings. A lot of you misunderstood my context- when i spoke of quizzing him on two questions related to government structure. I wanted to see if I could awaken an interest within him- I asked him these same two questions one day. but only continued to do so the next two days- bc I was catching on that he had possible memory issues. In all of this- he actually wanted to- and tried to remember the answers- bc he was trying to please me. Upon realizing this awkward predicament that i was putting him in, and getting a grasp that he possibly had some type of learning disorder- I was done with it all. And regardless- I would never want to take the teaching role. Its too pretentious, IMO. It would surely make him feel that I was better than him- when rather- only we know different things, in different topics. 

As for asbergers- he definitely does not- at least thats IMO. He interacts very well socially, responds appropriately emotionally. He has his routine- but adjusts to change very well. Such as going on vacations, meeting new friends, doing new physical activities, hobbies- as well as how fine he seemed the first night he slept over at my place, pronounces things well- (just possibly not hear well)."



I can't tell you how hard I laughed at this post. It's so absurd for me to think you're so intelligent...


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Was dad that bad before marriage? Any signs of this? Try not to overcompensate with a guy opposite of this. You'll have issues too. Different, but possibly just as frustrating....?


I did not marry dad on purpose. He pushed for it. I could not even enter an engagement- by the time we had "progressed" to that stage.

I did not have kids in my marriage. My marriage is what traumatized me. I left there with bruises and had to go to the dentist for a root canal bc he broke my tooth, leaving an exposed nerve. 

Dad had red flags- but they seemed very small compared to the big flags from my marriage. But the flags grew- as the "security" of having a second child- came into play. Now when I look back on that- I realize how naive I was to not have seen those flags. But that- is the learning curve. 

My current SO- has a very normal level of jealousy. What i mean by that is- he only reacts - if there is reason for it. There is no irrational jealously. He is a very un-jealous and un controlling person. Is this good? Is this bad? I do not know for sure-, but i'd say yes. I only know I went and sought out the other end of that spectrum after the marriage and kids' dad. So yes- unfortunately- I did go and do THAT- (the opposite)


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I did not marry dad on purpose. He pushed for it. I could not even enter an engagement- by the time we had "progressed" to that stage.
> 
> I did not have kids in my marriage. My marriage is what traumatized me. I left there with bruises and had to go to the dentist for a root canal bc he broke my tooth, leaving an exposed nerve.
> 
> ...


I think my post an hour or two ago applies to your current relationship. The one starting "Right Brain Left Brain". Not sure you've seen it.

I never considered a red flag could grow. Well said. Something for everyone to watch out for. Wonder myself if they can shrink...


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> *I did wonder if he was an Aspie when reading this... but... maybe he's not?*






Jellybeans said:


> Also, the way you describe him reminds me of Jeremiah on that show Royal Pains. He's a doctor with Asperger's.






norajane said:


> I'm thinking it isn't Asperger's since he's a people-person and networks and all that.





IcePrincess28 said:


> As for asbergers- he definitely does not- at least thats IMO. He interacts very well socially, responds appropriately emotionally. He has his routine- but adjusts to change very well. Such as going on vacations, meeting new friends, doing new physical activities, hobbies- as well as how fine he seemed the first night he slept over at my place, pronounces things well- (just possibly not hear well).


Now, enter the troll



Revamped said:


> You have self diagnosed him to have Asberger's and that simply is offensive. All because you think he failed at a silly test about knowing the three legislative branches of our government.


p.s.- you said it. Not me. "three legislative branches of our government" 

So right now, you're just a troll. One who is either dyslexic- which- then, I can understand. But if not, then you should be laughing at yourself. At this point- I ask you to stop harassing me *Revamp.* and leave a thread where I am asking for help. Thanks


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Unfortunately, it's not really up to you whether I post or not.

Maybe I'm testing YOU to see if your self proclaimed intelligence is warranting my attention at this very moment...


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

This thread turned into 11 pages of seeking help and answers to which many people provided valuable information. 

Everyone has provided sound answers with yes and no and the information to support either argument.

I have to ask, when does it end? At what point do you stop talking circles and make a decision?


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

texasoutlaw82 said:


> This thread turned into 11 pages of seeking help and answers to which many people provided valuable information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol. Done. Goodbye


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Lol. Done. Goodbye


It appears there are only two "legislative" branches of govt. That would be the executive and judicial branches. 

...just doesn't square with my copy of the US Constitution. I must have an old copy. Maybe it's in the cliff notes.

:sleeping:


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

IP28, unfortunately, folks will bleed their unresolved issues on a thread when a subject matter indirectly triggers their issues. I hope ultimately you get out of this what you seek.

It seems like you are at a stage where your are trying to determine the best course for you after some serious bumps in the road. It also sounds like you recovered and pulled yourself up by the bootstraps, hoping to avoid future pitfalls if you can. I can tell you aren't hanging your past over you SO's head, but at the same time you may be feeling very risk averse concerning the life you hope to have.

Your feelings are your feelings, and while you don't want to stifle them, it also sounds like you are asking to see if you are way off track.

True, you may be over-thinking everything, trying to factor in every chess move and worry. Yet, by 28, you got to be where you are at by slugging it out...which I am sure feels like you have created some momentum with upward mobility. I am reminded of the quote by Johnny Cash, "I went out there in search of experience. To taste and touch, and to do as much as a man can before he repents." You are at the age where you want to have laser-focus and make a dent, experiencing life to the fullest. To look at a partner who is a lot less driven about things may feel maddening. Some days he may feel like your anchor...other days he may feel like dead weight.

At your age, you want to conquer it all. Many of us, as we get a bit older, values change...we start seeing things different. Yes, we smile and encourage the go-getters with great potential, but we also greatly esteem people, old souls, who have seemed to "figure it out" and lived simply and humbly.

It sounds like you are driven by your family culture...perhaps to a negative extent. In that case you should determine if what behavior and attitudes that are robotic, are they actually flowing from your heart and values...or are you trying to fulfill expectations from a insatiable, perfectionist overseer residing in your self-talk? Not saying the goal is for you to be listless, but we don't want self-abuse either...where you truly are in control of your choices and relationships. I think if you truly break that down and get to the root of your authentic heart and motivation, then you ought be able to determine if SO is a fit for you or not.

I think you would really benefit from the works of Brene Brown, particularly The Gifts of Imperfection. Amazon.com: Brené Brown: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

LOVE Brene Brown..


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> IP28, unfortunately, folks will bleed their unresolved issues on a thread when a subject matter indirectly triggers their issues. I hope ultimately you get out of this what you seek.
> 
> It seems like you are at a stage where your are trying to determine the best course for you after some serious bumps in the road. It also sounds like you recovered and pulled yourself up by the bootstraps, hoping to avoid future pitfalls if you can. I can tell you aren't hanging your past over you SO's head, but at the same time you may be feeling very risk averse concerning the life you hope to have.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

She also may be rebelling a bit over her culture and identity in it. Depends on her age when coming here and the culture she's picked up living there and experience in the US or being born here. Parents have different expectations of her versus her friends parents in the US. By 28, she should have resolved these though. Still leaves a mark.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Dear former self,

I went on here- bc being the true nerd that I am- I am printing out this thread- sans those on the ignore list. 

I am thankful you got your post on here before I unsubscribed! I get to print out your informing response. 

Later on I will link this thread to my signature when I am ready. 

It is redundant to say that I am learning everyday. I will be different next week- from the person I am today. Everything is relative. Everything is a learning curve. 

My parents are proof of that. They are so gentle and outwardly loving to my kids. They've changed - for the relative better. They are, however- happy that I am taking on the role of the educator- bc they (my parents), my kids' dad, and my SO- have the role of the "fun" providers. 

I've learned that decisions made in haste- are often impulsive. And often do not last. I have decisions to make. But they will no longer be talked thru on here. It's become counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve. Too much conflictual static. 

Any questions I have will be done thru private messaging. So you (former self)- and others whose advice I have really learned much from- are welcome to say hi. And I hope you do not mind if I PM you all as well. 

For the trolls. If you chose to harass my pm. You will be reported. Bc when you bash enough of those who come here for help- you will be banned. 

Thank you to all those applicable- for the help that you gave. And that applies to nearly all. Your experiences in life have given insight- of which many- I would not have thought of otherwise. These will all give me the upper hand to figure out to do what's best. 

IcePrincess28

- a name I gave myself for the ice that formed around my heart after being hurt so many times- an involuntary bi product that manifested itself as ice when I attempted to protect my heart. 

The chronicles of narnia books- depicts the white witch as a queen draped in ice. Her face seemed expressionless. She did not seem to experience happiness nor grief. An ice queen. 

So naturally- if she had a daughter- it would be the icePrincess. This daughter- raised to be like her mother. A heart that could protect her from men. But a heart that would prevent her from finding love as well. I thought to myself- I relate to that "character". 

But the daughter of an ice queen has had a heart of ice for a much shorter time- compared to the queen. And one day, some theoretical prince will save her by melting the ice around her heart. And she will feel the world again.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Thank you for your well thought out responses! These past several days have given been a lot to think about.
> 
> It's funny you should ask. I know NOTHING of Mensa. My parents to this day- still hand me the magazines they send. And I throw it in the trash. They have local get togethers - for every state- and I've never been to one.
> 
> ...


IP I don't feel you have said anything to warrant criticism. I am familiar with extraordinary intelligence and beauty. These traits run in my family. The reactions from people are sometimes challenging. You had no role in selecting your talents and conversely, you can't unselect them. My advice is to stop defending yourself. Rather, accept that you will be misunderstood and make peace with who you are and then wrap yourself in that calm safe place. Protect yourself and thicken your skin. 

I was just offering a little different framework that you may want to consider. Not lobbing volleys at you. Perhaps I should not have mentioned the Mensa thing, it really has nothing to do with you. it's me.


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## texasoutlaw82 (Dec 27, 2013)

IcePrincess28 said:


> Lol. Done. Goodbye


I can't help but laugh at the sarcastic and dismissive tone of this petty response. With all due respect, I don't think the square peg fits in the round circle. I see grandiosity marked by a level of intellectual insecurity. Perhaps my bullish stance on the issue is to [email protected] or get off the pot. Evidently that advice doesn't parallel your thought process.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Q tip said:


> It appears there are only two "legislative" branches of govt. That would be the executive and judicial branches.
> 
> ...just doesn't square with my copy of the US Constitution. I must have an old copy. Maybe it's in the cliff notes.
> 
> :sleeping:


I'm willing to bet that she probably thinks that her vote counts or matters as well!!!

LMAO

Just think about how this country was formed, it started off with the biggest BS story of them all.

"All men are created equal".........straight from the slave owners.....and no, that doesn't apply to women!!!

Go ahead OP, take a look at women's rights through our history.....tell us how great our politicians/people REALLY are.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but longer you live, more history you get to know......the more you will want to throw up at even a HINT of politics.

Especially in modern age. Hypocrisy is at an all time high as we speak!!!

You will get MORE truth from our government by assuming OPPOSITE of they tell you vs listening to their BS.

I can give you a great current day example. Illegal Immigration, they are working SO hard on this right?

Guess what, our government not only WANTS illegal immigrants in this country, they NEED them. If they didn't, they would've fixed it MANY moons ago. Deny them license, jobs (go after co that hire them), healthcare and I guarantee you our illegal immigration problem will be solved in few years.

THEY DON'T WANT THAT.....not with their action, but they sure do a GREAT job of pretending and blinding our countries "intellectuals".


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Lmao? Hmm. I've been a citizen for over 13 years. 

Politics? 

This is coming from a man who admittedly wouldn't hesitate to raise his family in a tent. You jump at reasons to flame people. The more you lash out- the more apparent how sad your life is that you must deflect on others. 

You bash me for working 50 hours a week. You say family time is important. But you've been a member here for 6 months. And you've already made almost 3,000 posts. Take a page out of your own book of sneery advice - take a breather every now and then and spend it with your family. 

Keep at the flaming. You're only revealing yourself.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eh, what is this thread really about? 

It has gone waaay off topic.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Eh, what is this thread really about?
> 
> It has gone waaay off topic.


I'm guessing, after reading the first post and the last couple, that people wanted to cut her down to size and tell her how little she really knows about anything. That's generally the way it goes.

Anyway, the most intelligent people I've met are those that can self-reflect. I don't overly value how many facts a person can remember or if they studied calculus/govt/history etc. Finding someone who can actually *think* about why they act the way they do, and why other people react to what they've said and done is an incredibly valuable asset. Someone who can put the needs of someone else before their own while encouraging others to do the same (not a doormat, but a genuinely good person), is a diamond in the rough.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There is no more stark an example of preconceived ideas and prejudice than that directed at people with perceived superiority. Intellegent or beautiful people are just as human as anyone else. They need to be treated with as much respect as anyone else. 

I say this because I have seen the vicious jealousy of people towards those with any sort of perceived superiority. My sister was beautiful and at just 14 yrs old, made boys, men and even women melt. She was subjected to the viciousness of women that was beyond belief. If they only knew what a tender and good heart she had. She did not understand why they hated her. She was my best friend and I saw her suffer. 

It is a commentary on human nature that we would rather destroy than enjoy the beauty, talent and creativity that we are granted except if it is our own. There are 14 pages here. I've seen some of the most unkind posts from people that I would never have expected on TAM. Why is that. Do you think you need to bring this woman down a peg? You will never bring her down. 

She has things that many would like to have - superior intelligence, 2 wonderful children, the love of a good man, career success and an ability to look at herself. Congratulations IcePrincess, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You should be a beacon of hope for everyone. If good is granted to you then it can be granted to all. 

IcePrincess - I don't know if you will get what you need from this thread. Stay and read and comment on other threads. Try and help. I have been helped a great deal. It is better not to say too much about your good fortune. Just try and help others. It's the best way to learn about yourself. Remember to stop defending yourself against comments that have nothing to do with who you are.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You two are clearly not intellectually matched... not sure what you are doing with him. He is far from your "perfect package". He has a massive flaw in your eyes. If you really have good intentions, set him free and find someone more "suitable"... he is the way he is... you'll never change him. You'll be happier too...


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## dazed794 (Aug 31, 2014)

It will bother you 10x worse after you marry him. And if you have a kid with him, you are always going to worry that the kid will turn out dumb. So no, if you don't respect him intellectually, it's not going to work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Ice Princess, I'm late for the party, but I will stick it to the title question: no, I don't think it works with someone you don't respect intellectually. One of the traits I adore about my spouse is his wit and assertiveness. It's part of what defines a man, in my opinion. If he didn't have that, golden heart as he is, would probably be friend-zoned and nothing more...
Also, if I suspected he finds me slow minded, I myself couldn't make it work with him. Couldn't be in a relationship that makes me feel inferior. So tread carefully not to show these thoughts to your husband. It would not really break his heart but also destroy his self esteem.

Find another reason to call it quits, if you will call it wits. For, to "become the woman he deserves", that is someone who admires him, cherishes him, and is TOTALLY into him - intellectually included.This is what anyone deserves. Can you become that woman ? This is the question. Only you know the answer.


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

breeze said:


> I'm guessing, after reading the first post and the last couple, that people wanted to cut her down to size and tell her how little she really knows about anything. That's generally the way it goes.
> 
> Anyway, the most intelligent people I've met are those that can self-reflect. I don't overly value how many facts a person can remember or if they studied calculus/govt/history etc. Finding someone who can actually *think* about why they act the way they do, and why other people react to what they've said and done is an incredibly valuable asset. Someone who can put the needs of someone else before their own while encouraging others to do the same (not a doormat, but a genuinely good person), is a diamond in the rough.


Have to admit, I didn't read the entire thread and skipped to this last page. However, I really liked this post. It's all about the size of a person's heart!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Did you leave him yet OP? 

Please let us know. Also if you didn't, please tell me you shared your priorities with him and how he will never EVER be your #1.

Again, he deserves to know.

Are you being honest about this with him?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> This is coming from a man who admittedly wouldn't hesitate to raise his family in a tent. You jump at reasons to flame people. The more you lash out- the more apparent how sad your life is that you must deflect on others.


What's wrong with a tent? Do you think that's low of me or something? 

You know there is MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people on this planet that don't even have a tent and have no option/choice but to raise their family in misery.

MANY of them are good people.

Or are you saying that they are all sore losers???

Tell us how you really feel?

And I'm not lashing out at you. Again, you are WAY too easily offended.



IcePrincess28 said:


> You bash me for working 50 hours a week. You say family time is important. But you've been a member here for 6 months. And you've already made almost 3,000 posts. Take a page out of your own book of sneery advice - take a breather every now and then and spend it with your family.
> 
> Keep at the flaming. You're only revealing yourself.


Why are you on defensive again? 

I have posted probably handful of times during my "life hours"........

Don't assume, cause your assumptions are as baseless in real life as they are here.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Here is my take. 

You don't respect your BF. You feel bad about this because you realize he is a good guy. But the problem will not go away.

Rather than drag this out and cause long term anguish to both yourself and him, accept this fact now and allow yourself and him to move on. You both will be better off.

Use this relationship to realize and accept the fact that you want to be with a man who is your intellectual superior (not equal). I mean this seriously. With respect, you are very hung up on the intellectual fire power of others. Unless a man is clearly superior to you in this department, you will always be uncertain about him and want to test him. The only solution to this is to avoid men who do not clearly best you in this area.

The other thing I think you should examine is that there may be a lack of compatability in the fact that you seem to exclusively date white men. You seem to understand that your upbringing is not typical for Americans, but you cannot just forget how you were raised. When you date someone with a very different cultural background, there will be conflicts because baseline expectations of relationships are quite different.

Finally, you must consider the fact that your needs in terms of relationship material are quite high and that the pool of men who will be satisfactory partners to you at this point in your life is small. 

You might want to consider looking for an older, divorced man who might be more likely to understand your past relationship struggles while still satisfying your other relationship criteria.


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