# Is it possible for a Serial Cheater/ Narcissist to change his stripes?



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Quite Long and Only Part 1.

I have been posting on here for a couple months now; one afternoon I decided to check out some infidelity forums since I am knee deep in “the cause” of such anguish and pain. I already knew the “cheater side” all too well, understood the magnitude of an affair, but felt the need to “look deeper” into the aftermath of such betrayal. I wasn’t planning to post, since I was/am part of the problem (the enemy so to speak). Yet, after reading thread after thread, and seeing a common theme, I started posting. I believe there is only one way to deal with a cheater, and that is with harsh consequences. Not begging & not being weak. This is because if you ask any cheater, they want to be in control with little to no consequences. 

So I just started posting, mentioning in my posts that I am a cheater, but never sharing much details past that. I mean who really wants to know why someone is so selfish. Why someone is willing to ruin lives and willing to hurt loves one? Why can’t someone just stop such pathetic behavior? I mean, does anyone here really want to know anything about someone who was willing to cause the pain that most of you have experienced/ or experiencing? Yet, I have had PM’s asking just that, so I guess I should share my story. I hope it doesn’t set off any triggers to some of you and I will keep from getting into too much detail.

To start off, I am a diagnosed Narcissist and all that goes with it, a serial cheater, a liar, a manipulator, a predator, who only thinks of myself and believes I can control any situation. I also could be considered a borderline (non-violent) Sociopath. Yeah… that was shocking to find out, cause I always thought of sociopaths as anti-social violent criminals… but there are (per my therapist, 1 out of 25 adults show sociopathic tendencies) non-violent sociopaths. In my case, I do have somewhat of a conscience, but I am very able to live two lives without any noticeable signs of guilt or regret. 

I had a very normal upbringing, I wasn’t spoiled, I wasn’t mothered, and my parents are still happily married. Yet, even as a young child I have been sneaky, and once I started dating, I was manipulative and used for my own warped entertainment. I have always been charming, charismatic, and sociable. Very well-liked by many, and I have never had any problems getting attention from the opposite sex. I mean I have dark mysterious features that just fit perfectly with my personality and I used it to my advantage. I use to cheat on my girlfriends, with their best friends, and cheat on the best friend, with another of their friends. I did this all the time, never cared about their feelings and really got off on being deviant. (I know I am not a good person). I almost always got away with it and if there were any questions I usually talked my way out of any suspicion. 

The first time I was an OM was when I was 17. I had an A with my married spanish teacher. Yeah just like what you see in the news just that we never got caught. I never shared any of these activities, especially her with anyone; I didn’t have to tell my friends about my conquests… yeah some suspected the girlfriends, but no one ever knew about her. It started sexual but it did get emotional with crazy confessions and fantasy land. It went on for almost 2 years until I went away to school. Looking back, I kind of cringe, it was very deceitful; but then, I loved it, it was intense and exciting… this was before texting and even cell phones (I had a pager); we would write notes and use land line phones. I would continue to chase this high for years to come, and I understand the lure and high of an affair.

When I was 24, I met my wife. I instantly was attracted to her and she made me chase her just a bit cause she is a good girl who really is the opposite of me in every way, she thinks of others before herself and although incredibly stunning, doesn’t know how to flirt and isn’t aware when someone is flirting with her. When we first started dating, I was actually faithful, and didn’t even crave any other. I never was like this before as it was the first time I actually fell in love. Gawd, I still love her just as much, and I recently learned that I wasn’t just drawn to her beauty but her healthy personality and virtues (opposite of mine). It seems Narcissists seek the opposite of themselves as companions. 
Well unfortunately I didn’t stay true to her and began some of my old ways. I did change some of my boundaries so to speak. Where I use to cheat with my girlfriends friends, actually seeking it, I never did that again, I made a point to not ever cheat on her with anyone she knew personally. (oh so noble huh??) The first time was with a high school friend’s sister, who I use to be with in secrecy throughout high school. It was the only time anyone caught us and it was her mom (the sister’s) in the act. She never said anything to anyone as she didn’t know I had a girlfriend, but her daughter got a talking too as she did have a boyfriend. As the years went by I moved in with my future W but really started living the double life. I didn’t cheat all the time but I still cheated.

Once I moved in with her I knew I could never do any better and asked her to marry me, this was the beginning of me regretting my behavior and questioning why I was how I was. I was having a full on A shortly after the engagement and didn’t end it until a month after being married. This was the only time I ever lied to an AP about my situation, and led her to believe I was not engaged, but that I only had a live in girlfriend. I also look back at this with the most disgust, cause of the timing, and how I was totally living two lives when I was about to start a committed life with someone who loved me unconditionally. Before this I never took relationships seriously cause it wasn’t a real commitment; it was my way of downplaying hurting her. 

After I ended it I was really going to try to be faithful and that became easier once I found out my W was pregnant. We were only married for a couple months and I still was cheating on a couple occasions when I would go see AP from the engagement. Yet after we found out about the pregnancy, I totally ended it with her, telling her about the pregnancy. This because another rule of mine, which just recently, I learned, shows I am capable of stopping my behavior. I wouldn’t cheat on her while she was pregnant, and had no problem doing just that. Actually I been in plenty of A’s and had some ONS (not to many) but I have had long period of no adulterous activities. 

After my son was born and after the incredible high from being a new father and bringing life into the world, I was feeling overwhelmed and looking for escapes. But this time I recognized it and in a slight depression (cause I wanted to be a great father and husband) went for help. It was the first time I realized I may not be able to stop my behaviors without it…. I went to see a female therapist who really seemed disgusted by what I was telling her and shocked that I just couldn’t stop. I only had on session and she sent me to a male counterpart. He wasn’t any help either, as he tried but his methods were too weak and I stopped going. Well my W knew I was dealing with being a new father and I sugar coated it to her that I just wanted to talk to someone about life changes and doing right for my family. Since she was still enrolled in school she was able to get me to see a counselor through the university who referred me to a husband/wife practice who dealt with life changes and marriage counseling. 

Disclaimer- I am a known liar as I stated earlier, but I swear this is no tall tale this all actually happened and very real I bring this up cause it is about to get a bit crazy.-

Well I decided to see the wife as I have always picked females over men in any type of care. Well it started off great, she seemed to understand, said something I was actually thinking and the first two sessions seemed to at least put me at ease, I still had thoughts, actually thoughts about her and I purposely mentioned this to her like I had to cause she was helping me, she took the bait and with her H across the hall or sessions got sexual. I know straight from penthouse letters…. But No Lie…. Her excuse for this, she was my surrogate, I was to only have extramarital with her as we worked on weaning me and such… never happened as we never weaned I actually would started lying to her as well about what I was doing. This ended when we moved because of my work. 

I will have to continue when I have more time…. I wrote a bunch more than I thought I would and I am still a good 10 years away from now…. Not sure if this is the right place to post, if there is even a place, but at least you get a look into the drama one lives as a narcissist.


----------



## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks for sharing this. Having been married to a Narcissist woman for a few years, I found this interesting.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I learned a lot lately, one thing I was told by my therapist is that it is very uncommon for a Narcissist to seek help, and another to be cured completely.... right now, we are working on controlling my behaviors, and recognizing my impulses.... i will get to that in Part 2.


----------



## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

It's possible but only in the wake of utter tragedy. 

And I mean tragedy for them. They need to be hit in the face with a meteor. 

Most sociopaths will never change.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> It's possible but only in the wake of utter tragedy.
> 
> And I mean tragedy for them. They need to be hit in the face with a meteor.
> 
> Most sociopaths will never change.


Yeah.. Actually that is one of the reasons I am trying to change my behaviors, I know at some point it is very possible that I can ruin everything dear to me. Also my therapist said the same exact thing.... if I don't change, I can lose everything. Worst part is even though I know it and believe it... I still struggle with my impulses


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> oh so noble huh??


In the context of what problems you labour under (a narcissist and sociopath) I would have to agree. Sort of noble and sort of surprising that you could rise above your problems to express your love for your wife in this way.

Nothing sort of remarkable, really. And I am being serious.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> In the context of what problems you labour under (a narcissist and sociopath) I would have to agree. Sort of noble and sort of surprising that you could rise above your problems to express your love for your wife in this way.
> 
> Nothing sort of remarkable, really. And I am being serious.


I was being sarcasstic, but thank you. Actually my therapist has said some of the same, he mentioned that having a good upbringing and living with a very naturing and selfless wife has probably rubbed of on me in some ways... he said that who knows what I could of become if I had a different upbringing.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The bishop said:


> I was being sarcasstic, but thank you. Actually my therapist has said some of the same, he mentioned that having a good upbringing and living with a very naturing and selfless wife has probably rubbed of on me in some ways... he said that who knows what I could of become if I had a different upbringing.


I knew you were being ironic, but I thought: "Bloody Hell! That WAS noble!, given the context."


----------



## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

You're enjoying the freedom of a modern society. If you were doing this 200 years ago decent men would have tarred and feathered you and threw you out of the community, or possibly even hung you. Now you get to be a narcissist; I suppose that's better than being dead... for you.

But maybe not.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My dad was like you. He died alone last week. Well that's not entirely true people a couple people did show up for the funeral (not me) but it was all fake. Everyone hated him.

He left a lot of maimed bodies in his wake. He's borderline psychotic and he never got better he got worse.


----------



## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

One more note. You've been played Bishop, they (the people who are supposed to help you), told you you have a disease, that you're not the reason, that you're sick, you have a thing called narcissism, and other $100 an hour psychobabble. You've been played, you've been sold a bill of goods, the player is actually the one being played. Imagine that, you, the one who thought he was the player, let himself be used by multiple girls and even a counselor, they used YOU. You're not sick, you're spoiled, you grew up with better than average looks and charm, you're overindulged, and you're a lesser man for it. The women/girls took your honor and the "Dr's" took your money.

I won't charge you for that bit of psychoanalyzing.


----------



## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

No, you can never change. The best you can hope for is to be able to control it. I've been on the wagon for 12 years but not a day or a woman goes by that I'm not wondering what she's like in bed. I said in another thread its like the Terminator, it can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.


----------



## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

I thought that Dr. Sam Vanakin (spelling?) was a narcissist who changed and evolved into a better person. I believe he wrote the book A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing. A book about narcissists. 
Did any of the therapists mention a possible sex addiction? There are many good websites about how sex addicts seek the high of affairs just like a junkie longs for crack. The seek the endorphins and chemical high of illicit sex, and then come to feel terrible about it afterwards, until the compulsion builds up again....


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Yes. When they're pushing up daisies.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> One more note. You've been played Bishop, they (the people who are supposed to help you), told you you have a disease, that you're not the reason, that you're sick, you have a thing called narcissism, and other $100 an hour psychobabble. You've been played, you've been sold a bill of goods, the player is actually the one being played. Imagine that, you, the one who thought he was the player, let himself be used by multiple girls and even a counselor, they used YOU. You're not sick, you're spoiled, you grew up with better than average looks and charm, you're overindulged, and you're a lesser man for it. The women/girls took your honor and the "Dr's" took your money.
> 
> I won't charge you for that bit of psychoanalyzing.



Point Taken. I am certainly paying for all of this and deservingly so. I take no pride on my behavior; I am incredibly selfish, have overindulged, and am a lessor man for it all. Being labeled a Narcissist isn't a excuse and I certainly don't believe one is born as one. Somewhere with in myself I learned to be self centered. When I think of Narcissists and Sociopaths, I think of someone who deserves to die alone.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

indiecat said:


> I thought that Dr. Sam Vanakin (spelling?) was a narcissist who changed and evolved into a better person. I believe he wrote the book A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing. A book about narcissists.
> Did any of the therapists mention a possible sex addiction? There are many good websites about how sex addicts seek the high of affairs just like a junkie longs for crack. The seek the endorphins and chemical high of illicit sex, and then come to feel terrible about it afterwards, until the compulsion builds up again....


Sex addiction has been brought up, and is a part of it. Basically I use sex or actually I use the A/AP to get the desired affect I need to enjoy the sexual interaction. 
When I am right in the middle of extramarital activities/ affairs I really don't feel guilt about it. I feel the guilt and regret of the affairs when I am not involved in them and that is a big problem.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The bishop said:


> Sex addiction has been brought up, and is a part of it. Basically I use sex or actually I use the A/AP to get the desired affect I need to enjoy the sexual interaction.
> When I am right in the middle of extramarital activities/ affairs I really don't feel guilt about it. *I feel the guilt and regret of the affairs when I am not involved in them and that is a big proble*m.


Well. Somehow you manage to feel guilt. It's not the shame cycle sex addict are into but maybe it's worth to read some related literature or commit to a recovery Workshop.
The site below was created by Jon Marsh, a sex addict wich rejected 12 steps programs: He also wrote He Danced Alone, a book on the matter.

RecoveryNation


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

The bishop, I am glad u have finally told your story. I spotted it this morning and I have been trying to read it all day. It is now 11.28pm! 

I look forward to the next installment. 

I hope you will find some kind of peace at some point. I really do think that cheating, porn, and sex addiction (I don't know if you also are heavily into porn too?) all go hand in hand....however...why is it that some people like, enjoy, that, like and enjoy the degradation of those things, and others do not, because they see the degrading to their self and their soul and their happiness, their 'clean' happiness, that it brings? Why do some people see that doing right by others is so important, while others do not?

Life is a strange thing. People are a strange lot. 

Thankyou the bishop. I am going to get my man (ex... maybe ex? He has been my ex for 6 weeks now but the last 2 days have become grey) to read your post I think.  

It is great to have an insight. And even better to hear one from someone who wants to better himself and be different.


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> Excellent story/post...want it to be much longer!! Better than all the self help books out there. Could you tell us how/why you were diagnosed narcissist and borderline sociopath please? That would be very very personally helpful to me as I believe my husband is also both of these. Thanks again.


I met the criteria set forth my the American Psychiatric Association (APA). It consisted of a psychological evaluation and questionaires. I was referred to a Psychologist by my therapist who met me just once and forwarded his "findings" to my therapist. I did this on my own, I wasn't forced to, my therapist brought it up and I agreed.


----------



## Linden (Nov 11, 2013)

To the Bishop: There is hope for you. Only Jesus Christ can change wicked hearts and make them new. If you repent and believe in the Son of God, he will forgive you and grant you eternal life. He will pluck out your stony heart and make you a new creation in Him. Turn to Him today and find hope!


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Linden said:


> To the Bishop: There is hope for you. Only Jesus Christ can change wicked hearts and make them new. If you repent and believe in the Son of God, he will forgive you and grant you eternal life. He will pluck out your stony heart and make you a new creation in Him. Turn to Him today and find hope!


Ooh, that's nice! A preacher has come to save us! But... oh, no! Wait! It's a...


----------



## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Bishop a question.

I have/had problems having long term relationships with women, so during my teenager years and 20's I never compromised, I also regarding looks and physical attributes am above average, so getting women was never a problem, but I never went after someone who I really did not like (I am high standar let say 7 or above), I never cheated, I just never compromised.

But when I hear stories from people like you I have the impression that you not necessary have to had full atraction for the person you target, but you will go after a woman susceptible towards your advances for the thrill of the hunt.

am I wrong?

did you go after women you knew you could have even if you were not 100% in to them?, or did you have standars as "well as long as she is not fat is okey", or like me, just those who you find really attractive to you.


----------



## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

The Bishop, Narcissist do not change, at least this is what we read and know, The reason is that N do not accept that they have a serious problem. However I read some testimonies of 2 N men what were defending their behavior and were trying to change. Congratulations , since you too you want to know how to fix your problem. This is a very big step. Continue to read about N and how N hurts people around him, especially those who loves him/her. You have to learn how to not hurt others. Otherwise you will end up lonely, your wife may leave you because no one wants to live with N. By the way, some say that N change their behavior in their 40, 50s. But the reason is not b/c they understand they have to change, the main reason is that they find themselves lonely, no friends, relatives stay away, cannot keep a job….Keep learning about you and how people hate you when they find out who you are. Then, try to change. Good luck.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is a bit pointless. I don't think The Bishop comes here, any more.


----------



## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is a bit pointless. I don't think The Bishop comes here, any more.


I was going to say ............he's back! but then I noticed the dates......oh boy.

Fleur De Cactus...........

Read my thread...."living with a N till your not" 

N do not change , Im living with one and have seen nothing but cover up, lies, deception, no responsibility, no ownership, etc etc etc etc..........

They do not change and its not easy getting out..........


----------



## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is a bit pointless. I don't think The Bishop comes here, any more.


Nevertheless, he'd be delighted to know that he's a topic of conversation again.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Zombie/Troll filter please! 3 minutes of my life wasted.


----------



## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

BlueCalcite said:


> Nevertheless, he'd be delighted to know that he's a topic of conversation again.


Delighted is such an understatement.


----------

