# DS has a new apartment on hold - some advice on proceeding needed



## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

DS and I have agreed that separating is the best for right now. Below is a link which describes the background of the situation. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31895-help-ea-verge-separation.html#post428642

She’ll be moving out in a few weeks and need some advice on how to proceed. In short I am still open to R but she has shown no interest. She is still in contact with OM from an EA and has made it clear she will not give it up. So do I:
“Go Dark” the best I can considering we are sharing custody of two young kids?
Do a 180? This sounds good as it will give me an opportunity to really work on myself and move forward. It’s something I have been doing anyways. 
Give up, let her go, and move on?
Anything else?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She won't end the affair. File for divorce so you can get on with your life. She has made her selfish choice very very clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

And another weird thought - she actually asked me to help her move!? Is that weird? She thinks I put her in a spot by refusing to move.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Shaggy is right, you don't really have a choice. 

She may change her mind in a couple of months or so but you have to move forward with the assumption that she won't. You moving forward and not waiting around on her will show strength which may end up attracting her again. 

Considering her level of disrespect for you though, I wouldn’t consider taking her back. Odds are she would just do it again if giving the opportunity.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

You've expressed your willingness to reconcile but that she must end the EA and all contact. She has refused. Follow the rules of the 180 and end all discussion other than finances, kids and the next steps in separation. Keep it cool and business like. Don't be baited into arguements. She has made a choice and so have you. The only way she may consider R is if you set your boundaries and stick to them. If she doesn't then you have already begun to prepare for a life without her anyway.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

DSSM9500 said:


> DS and I have agreed that separating is the best for right now. Below is a link which describes the background of the situation.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31895-help-ea-verge-separation.html#post428642
> 
> ...


The EA didn't happen out of thin air... somewhere there has been a break down of communication and listening skills on both your parts. My suggestion is to sit down with her again, and talk calmly, confidently, openly, honestly in love of this fact. That you would like to work on the marriage with the help of a MC... calmly express that you had married her, not the OM, and it is your wish to maintain the marriage. You cannot in good faith and self-respect and the respect for the marriage allow the OM to be within this process. Approach her by taking the initiative by already interviewing and choosing a MC and set up an appt. You know her schedule so you can be fairly secure in an appt time... even if it doesn't work in your time schedule.. I think you would even sacrifice your time at work or whatever for this to happen.

You have placed the ball in her court.. she either accepts or refuses... this you will find out at the scheduled appt. If she doesn't show up... then sit down with her again. calmly express how sad it was that she didn't show up and suggest that a separation may be necessary. If she does show up.. use that time with the MC well!!! Discover about each other.. each of your feelings... 

What I gather from the boards is that EA is a symptom of the lack of regard of the others FEELINGS! Investigate yourself to see if you can find how you neglected, disrespected, dismissed, minimalized, etc your W's feelings.

Patience, calm, strong, assertive, more patience, perserverence, love... all within your heart...

I feel filing for divorce is a last resort.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

> What I gather from the boards is that EA is a symptom of the lack of regard of the others FEELINGS! Investigate yourself to see if you can find how you neglected, disrespected, dismissed, minimalized, etc your W's feelings.


I strongly disagree. That is tantamount to blaming the victim of a crime for the criminal's attack.

What an affair represents is a lack or crossing of marital boundaries. The late Dr Shirley Glass PhD investigated thousands of marriages rocked by an affair and found a common theme to all, they all crossed marital boundaries (i.e. started confiding personal details of their marriage, started spending lunch time together, started texting or calling each other when at home, started traveling together, started confessing their attraction for each other, started meeting in secret for talks, and started meeting in hotels in motels for sex).

Even happily married spouses are not immune to having an affair as the Dr Glass found out. All it takes is the crossing of marital boundaries.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> I strongly disagree. That is tantamount to blaming the victim of a crime for the criminal's attack.
> 
> What an affair represents is a lack or crossing of marital boundaries. The late Dr Shirley Glass PhD investigated thousands of marriages rocked by an affair and found a common theme to all, they all crossed marital boundaries (i.e. started confiding personal details of their marriage, started spending lunch time together, started texting or calling each other when at home, started traveling together, started confiding how attracted they feel for one another, started meeting in secret for talks, and started meeting in hotels in motels for sex).
> 
> Even happily married spouses are not immune to having an affair as the Dr Glass found out. All it takes is the crossing of marital boundaries.


You and Rose are both sort of correct. DS and myself both messed up in our marriage and we both own our 50%. I wish I listened better and did a lot of things different. But DS is 100% responsible for the EA. We both became somewhat unhappy - DS was more than me. Yet I did not stray and she did. She owns that and at some point had to realize it was wrong yet she continued. She rationalizes that she already saw the M as over when the EA started. On the other hand, this was an EA that built up over two years of online communication and during that time DS did cross a line.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

RoseRed said:


> What I gather from the boards is that EA is a symptom of the lack of regard of the others FEELINGS! Investigate yourself to see if you can find how you neglected, disrespected, dismissed, minimalized, etc your W's feelings.


Most definitely disagree.
I don`t think blaming the victim is the right mentality ever.
Whatever he may have done "wrong" the affair is an entirely separate matter.

If my wife neglects me I am not free to get a mistress.
I am however free to let her know I`m feeling neglected and see if she`s inclined to work on this problem together.



> I feel filing for divorce is a last resort.


His wife seems to have no interest in stopping her affair or working on the marriage.
If she were my wife she`d already be out of my house and I`d have a lawyer writing up the papers.


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## fool for love (Sep 20, 2011)

I think you already know what you need to do. She has told you she will not give up on the EA and has no interest in R. You need to work on yourself and moving forward for your children and yourself.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

DSSM9500 said:


> And another weird thought - she actually asked me to help her move!? Is that weird? She thinks I put her in a spot by refusing to move.


Ummmm....no deal of course. She needs a taste of what it's going to be like as a single mom and not be able to depend on her betrayed husband (you). If she needs help, she can get her toxic friends (who aren't friends of your marriage) to help her. Do nothing for her from now on. This is not punishment or retaliation for the EA, she needs a reality check. 

Proceed on with the D. If she comes out of the fog, fine, she can finally start working on R. If not, then you already know that you lost her a while ago.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Everyone - thank you again for your help and feedback. I think more than ever that it is time to move on from DS. I still love and care for her, but her head is so far in the fog that I need to take a new approach: just care about myself and my kids and move on. Essentially I'll try a 180 but more me. If she comes around and I'm in a place to take her back, great. If not, then I really know. 

At this point I really see what this fog is all about. the way she has shifted blame, rewritten history, magnified all the problems in our marriage, and justified her EA. She is not in a place to think rationally right now, so I don't think this is even a time to work on R. My guess is that the fog is what got us fired from R. I'm sure the marriage counselor recognized this and knew that as long as she was in the fog, there was nothing he could do.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

On last bit of advice, lurk. TAM has got some great forums other than this one i.e. The Men's Clubhouse, The Ladies Lounge, and Going through separation and divorce to name a few. There is some great info by simply clicking on some of the links under member's signatures i.e. lordmayhem, Deejo, HurtinTN and of course mine  You can also PM a member as well. Hope we hear from again soon.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

DSSM9500 said:


> At this point I really see what this fog is all about. the way she has shifted blame, rewritten history, magnified all the problems in our marriage, and justified her EA. She is not in a place to think rationally right now, so I don't think this is even a time to work on R. My guess is that the fog is what got us fired from R. I'm sure the marriage counselor recognized this and knew that as long as she was in the fog, there was nothing he could do.


:iagree:

This is why its said over and over again, not only in this forum, but other infidelity support sites as well, that as long as the wayward spouse is still in the affair, MC is useless. MC is only useful when the affair is over, and both partners are ready to commit to the marriage 100% and to repair the damage to the marriage and make it work.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This is why its said over and over again, not only in this forum, but other infidelity support sites as well, that as long as the wayward spouse is still in the affair, MC is useless. MC is only useful when the affair is over, and both partners are ready to commit to the marriage 100% and to repair the damage to the marriage and make it work.


Thanks Lordmayhem. what burns me about about our MC and DS's IC is that the EA was irrelevant as to why DS wanted to leave the marriage. I can see how it was irrelevant to to our prior problems, but the EA is very relevant now. Perhaps the IC and MC have also fallen victim to the blame-shifting and rewriting of the history of our marriage.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

DSSM9500 said:


> And another weird thought - she actually asked me to help her move!? Is that weird? She thinks I put her in a spot by refusing to move.


It's not that weird. As you've written, she'd firmly in the fog. She thinks that everyone will accept her new man and there will be no adverse consequences from her divorce. She's on the verge of having the perfect life!

You taking the kids to the park while she moves herself is step one in shattering that illusion.

Good luck.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

have you done work to figure who the OMW is and then expose?


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I was getting " The PA and the ongoing affair I am having in front of you is irrelevant to the problem"

If she won't end the affair then you have little choice but to remove yourself. 

Read what people say here. 

You MAY be able to bust her out of the fog but if I were you I would start rebuilding your life. Without her.

7 months out from Dday and what I thought was a radical 180 at the time was the best thing I could have done. 
it helped me recover fast.

There are dark days ahead my friend but there is a light at the end however hard that may seem to believe now. 

Stay here. Vent. Rage and cry. We all have been there.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Right now I'm more interested in doing a 180 and moving on. If she comes around great - if not then I know I made the best choice to move on. Also I don't have the energy to track down the OMW and expose. 

More and more I see the 180 as the most positive step I can take for ME.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

morituri said:


> I strongly disagree. That is tantamount to blaming the victim of a crime for the criminal's attack.
> 
> What an affair represents is a lack or crossing of marital boundaries. The late Dr Shirley Glass PhD investigated thousands of marriages rocked by an affair and found a common theme to all, they all crossed marital boundaries (i.e. started confiding personal details of their marriage, started spending lunch time together, started texting or calling each other when at home, started traveling together, started confessing their attraction for each other, started meeting in secret for talks, and started meeting in hotels in motels for sex).
> 
> Even happily married spouses are not immune to having an affair as the Dr Glass found out. All it takes is the crossing of marital boundaries.


Oh... please let me clarify... in no way shape or form do I condone ANY affair... and of course the issue is the setting of each partners moral boundaries...

HOWEVER... a marriage is of TWO people... and when one's needs/wants are not being fulfilled, especially on an emotional level... it is very easy to exceed these cboundaries in vunerable moments to looking elsewhere for support. Especially when one spouse is an emotionally empty or checked out. We are all social creatures and the interaction with others is vital. Thinking a marriage just exists in a bubble is, I believe, a very fragile bubble. Emotional isolationism is not the human condition. I do take some issue with the concept of an EA... As per many definitions here... I did have an EA with God, and a couple close friends, both male and female, but that was only to gain an objective third party perspective when my marriage was in jeopardy. IN NO WAY did I let any of my personal boundaries waver... all my friends and of course God, know that I am married and I am strong enough to keep things in check. 

So somewhere along the line there was a breakdown in communication and listening skills in the OP's marriage on BOTH parts. You cannot negate this. In a marriage responsibility is SHARED by BOTH spouses. Claiming that there is only one person to blame for a breakdown in a marriage is not fair. And of course this does not apply to exptreme cases of physical and pyschological abuse, ie, spousal beatings, alcoholism, etc. This is in a far greater realm. But in this garden variety of very common marital problems, BOTH spouses need to assess Both their actions and lack of actions.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

But I'll argue exposing their affair helps you


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