# The Science of Sex Appeal



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The Science of Sex Appeal is a Discovery Channel documentary.
I streamed it from Netflix for any of those interested.

And yep. We can talk about unconditional love and soul mates til we're blue in the face ... you find your soul mate and decide whether or not they are worthy of unconditional love based upon biology, physical queues, and sex rank; and yes ladies and gentlemen ... including how masculine or feminine you are, and how dominant or how much status a male has compared to the competition.

It was great stuff. Highly recommend it if you can stream or rent it. If not, here is a link with a number of clips from the Discovery site:

Sex and Science Clips


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

I have seen it. It definitley is fascinating and informative. Though, with all that science stuff, I still think we make our choices based on love and security and personal prefrence.
The pheremones, the physical queues, ect definitly help that process along, but I certainly didn't choose my husband because of his "sexual rank"- I chose him for how he makes me feel.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Mrs.LonelyGal said:


> I have seen it. It definitley is fascinating and informative. Though, with all that science stuff, I still think we make our choices based on love and security and personal prefrence.
> The pheremones, the physical queues, ect definitly help that process along, but I certainly didn't choose my husband because of his "sexual rank"-* I chose him for how he makes me feel.*


Which means that you made a decision about your long term investment in the relationship based upon stability, safety, and emotional security.

The dynamics interweave with one another. If you got yourself an unemployed Brad Pitt, you may have decided on a fling but not raising a family. Or, if raising a family were your goal - then you pick the sure bet 5 over the not so sure bet 9.

I'm not trying to minimize anybody's relationship at all. I am simply no less fascinated with how we get there, how it works and how it fails. But for anyone that believes that your mate is 'the only one for me', odds are there are distinct, and measurable reasons why that is - other than simple matters of the heart.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Science evolves and so do we. I get the logic, I just think it is possible to supersede it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A Troll who has a fortune in the bank and a Porsche in the driveway will have not shortage of takers. I haven't seen any shows about "who wants to marry a really nice unemployed guy?".


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> A Troll who has a fortune in the bank and a Porsche in the driveway will have not shortage of takers. I haven't seen any shows about "who wants to marry a really nice unemployed guy?".


Ah but really, I don't see a bunch of ugly but highly intelligent women on those shows vying for a chance at a fortune either.

Lesson possibly being, be careful the company you keep.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Although the company you keep will be the best you think you can do.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Although the company you keep will be the best you think you can do.


You really have trouble accepting that it's possible to find someone perfect for you based upon the essence of who you are? What we think becomes us.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Trenton said:


> You really have trouble accepting that it's possible to find someone perfect for you based upon the essence of who you are? What we think becomes us.


Not at all. But I still think that unconsciously you are going to pick the most _favorable_ version of that perfect someone.

They covered this on the show, by using manipulated photos of the same individual, both male and female.

We've actually covered this ground in the past as well.

Take your husband and clone him. Same guy. Same values.

Now change the grooming, style of dress, car driven and degree of financial success between the two of them.

You are going to find one of those two identical guys more attractive based upon what ISN'T on the inside, based upon what you value and prioritize. And it is likely ... that what you value and prioritize is remarkably similar to other females.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

Sometimes I joke around that next time I am going to marry a rich man....


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

unbelievable said:


> A Troll who has a fortune in the bank and a Porsche in the driveway will have not shortage of takers. I haven't seen any shows about "who wants to marry a really nice unemployed guy?".


BTW, I was unemployed when I got married. And I had other options. It's possible.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Not at all. But I still think that unconsciously you are going to pick the most _favorable_ version of that perfect someone.
> 
> They covered this on the show, by using manipulated photos of the same individual, both male and female.
> 
> ...


If they were the same person wouldn't they mimic the same style of dress, car driven and degree of financial success otherwise they're not the same person.

I don't admire fortune or status so if this is what most women value, I am not like these women who are of the most. Whether this makes me better or worse doesn't really matter. From my perspective I'm going to think it's better or I wouldn't feel the way I do.

I get that you don't think we're all snowflakes or whatnot but I've thought about this over and over and disagree. We have a basic connection to all things and that's where humanity is most similar but we are all unique. Subtle differences are the most defining feature of ourselves. What are the women and men in those television shows not saying, speaking or expressing. That's where you'll find their differences, their essence. 

What are you not saying, speaking about or sharing? That's where your essence is. You want to meet your soul mate? You'd have to find someone that you revealed all of it to, all of the time and they'd have to willingly do the same. There are many reasons not to do this but generally the reason we don't is fear.


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## Mrs.LonelyGal (Nov 8, 2010)

Yeah, I think I married my husband because he was the first to ever give me an orgasam.... both physical and emotional. 
I mean, that wasn't the only reason, but looking abck on it- we were both poor college kids, working in restaurants, barely scraping by. I was a tomboy and he had very little ambition in life, but the sex was incredible and we had the best talks.
He didn't drive a nice car- he slept on his friend's floor, he listened to heavy metal music. He spoke with a thick country accent.

I found him attractive not because of his money or social standing, or even his masculinity. (he was skinny and shy and dressed like a 12 year old skater)
I fell in love with our conversations and his attention to making me feel a deeper desire- not just a one night stand.
I actually knew I was falling for him because I wanted to wait to sleep w/ him. I didn't want to screw it up. I didn't want to treat him like a disposable fling.
The first time we had sex was still ( in both of our oppinions) the best we ever had.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I think you can learn a lot about people when you observe them out in the wild: at the mall, movie theaters, at churches, in restaurants, in bars, at the beach, etc.

There are definitely courtship displays and instinctual behaviors.

But when it comes right down to it, people have the ability to use many different techniques for acquiring a partner and keeping them.

Can a person's decisions be sliced and diced and stuck in a Petri dish--so to speak? 

To a degree. But ultimately there is no 100% prediction for people.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

A connection is a connection. Again, I don't care how we get there as much as I do how we keep it and foster it instead of slowly killing it off.

I have a friend who by most female accounts, is damn good looking. Blonde, 6'3". He looks like a dream ... right up to when he opens his mouth. I have had similar conversations with other women regarding their dating history: "Yeah, I thought he was gorgeous, until I tried to have a conversation with him."

Something triggers attraction. It may be something else completely that keeps and grows it. Whether it's 'essence', sexual prowess, or being really good at Sodoku, I don't care.

I find this stuff interesting from the point of view of fostering something _better_.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks Deejo, good vids. I just love the fact that we aren't so different to butt sniffing dogs.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> The Science of Sex Appeal is a Discovery Channel documentary.
> I streamed it from Netflix for any of those interested.
> 
> And yep. We can talk about unconditional love and soul mates til we're blue in the face ... you find your soul mate and decide whether or not they are worthy of unconditional love based upon biology, physical queues, and sex rank; and yes ladies and gentlemen ... including how masculine or feminine you are, and how dominant or how much status a male has compared to the competition.
> ...



I know when I’m “attracted”. It’s a feeling I get just below the ribcage. It’s an emotion. Doesn’t happen often but it happens even now. And it’s based on how they “look”, the way they dress, their demeanour and things like that. My “type” is exceedingly feminine.

Right now I’ve Baloo the bear’s attitude. “They ain’t nothing but trouble” and I walk on by lol.

Bob


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

michzz said:


> I think you can learn a lot about people when you observe them out in the wild: at the mall, movie theaters, at churches, in restaurants, in bars, at the beach, etc.
> 
> There are definitely courtship displays and instinctual behaviors.
> 
> ...


Agreed!! Deejo you think too much that's all I can say. I've seen a man stay with his wife who had a stroke at 44 and left severely handicapped for 11 years now. I've seen people leave the minute someone ages a little.

Science is great.....we all have a choice, can sacrifice, bend, give, be selfless, or we can do the opposite science can't predict that.....yet


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Saw the show, thought it was fascinating. 

My goal isn't to put love in a box. It doesn't belong in one. But ... I certainly don't believe that love is random, and without question perpetuating love over the long term is _definitely_ not random.

The documentary itself alluded to as much. There is a world of difference between initial attraction and pair bonding. If you reject, or are uninterested in the concepts at all - that's fine. You've made that abundantly clear previously. There was a time where I didn't give much of sh!t either.

You don't need to know how the engine works in order to drive a car. But in discovering how the engine works you get a greater appreciation for the car itself. That's where I'm at.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Saw the show, thought it was fascinating.
> 
> My goal isn't to put love in a box. It doesn't belong in one. But ... I certainly don't believe that love is random, and without question perpetuating love over the long term is _definitely_ not random.
> 
> ...


Don't let knowledge stop your wonder and amazement, a lot of adults make this mistake.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Don't let knowledge stop your wonder and amazement, a lot of adults make this mistake.



Deejo is full of wonder and amazement. It's just that you can't see it Trenton much less understand it.

Deejo is a very deep man. Most men get to a time in their life when they become philosophical. Some say philosophers are born from a bad marriage. I believe that to be true. If Deejo’s marriage was good, he wouldn’t be on this particular journey in his life.

Deejo is a man. If the psyche consists of everything that makes us a man, our mind, emotions, heart, soul and spirit then Deejo is most certainly a man. There’s depth to men that some women simply cannot comprehend no matter what language or lexicon used.

Deejo is going through a growth phase on his journey through his life. It’s what I was referring to at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18876-seasons-man-s-life.html. His journey started after his marriage had finished. He’ll know when this particular journey, walk through the forest of his life has ended and he’ll be better for it.

Bob


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Great post Deejo! I think another element that is invasive is that we are attracted to those that will allow us to work things out with. Our mate is a mirror to us, so no matter how attractive or not that they may be on paper, if the mirror aspect isn't there, then it's not going to be a match,or at least for very long anyway.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Deejo is full of wonder and amazement. It's just that you can't see it Trenton much less understand it.
> 
> Deejo is a very deep man. Most men get to a time in their life when they become philosophical. Some say philosophers are born from a bad marriage. I believe that to be true. If Deejo’s marriage was good, he wouldn’t be on this particular journey in his life.
> 
> ...


I think we're all born mini philosophers but tend to let the trait go when we become adults and fall into routines. I'm not judging the depth of Deejo, promise. We are always on a journey, the difference is recognizing it.

As we age and face things we never thought we would face, or knew we would face but didn't understand, I think we search for answers with new gusto. Being sure is a self defense mechanism but it has its weaknesses too. 

Science studies our physical and mental cause and effect but lacks the ability to definitively give clear answers when it comes to human nature. Science of the mind is the weakest science there is. We can understand how at times but can never understand why. Religion addresses the why but has to discount science to do so. It's very interesting really.

I'm babbling, I know, I just find it fascinating. It's still having amazement and wonderment over the immense possibilities around us, always, that I was referring to when I wrote my last post. There are times we allow new knowledge to allow us to let it got because I think we all do want to understand our own lives and the lives of those around us to some degree.

Women have seasons of their life as well as men do. I read your post that you referenced above. I think it is a beautiful post filled with personal insights on your part.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

HappyHer said:


> Our mate is a mirror to us, so no matter how attractive or not that they may be on paper, if the mirror aspect isn't there, then it's not going to be a match,or at least for very long anyway.


I really like this. I also think it is a nice corollary to Trenton's notion of 'essence'. When you see yourself reflected in someone else, that's pretty damn cool and special.

I also like Bob's simple litmus for attraction. You 'feel' it. Butterflies, a tingle, sweating, nausea, vomiting  ... it's visceral.

I do feel like this has been a journey, an extraordinarily enlightening one. I'm a big fan of love. I'm a cynical optimist. If I wasn't a fan, and didn't find it amazing and wonderful, I wouldn't be here. I certainly wouldn't bother sharing any of this stuff.

I wouldn't be out interacting, meeting, flirting, dating, and romancing. I'd be home in my skivvies jerking off to porn, not needing to risk a blessed thing.

And overall my message has been consistent, despite my methods. I'm not looking to be someone I'm not. I'm looking to be a better version of the person I am - with or without a woman on my arm.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> The Science of Sex Appeal is a Discovery Channel documentary.
> I streamed it from Netflix for any of those interested.
> 
> And yep. We can talk about unconditional love and soul mates til we're blue in the face ... you find your soul mate and decide whether or not they are worthy of unconditional love based upon biology, physical queues, and sex rank; and yes ladies and gentlemen ... including how masculine or feminine you are, and how dominant or how much status a male has compared to the competition.


Do they attempt to say that ALL people chose the same traits? That seems to fly in the face of readily observable truth.



> It was great stuff. Highly recommend it if you can stream or rent it. If not, here is a link with a number of clips from the Discovery site:
> 
> Sex and Science Clips


Thanks. I may check it out.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Do they attempt to say that ALL people chose the same traits? That seems to fly in the face of readily observable truth.


What's important to keep in mind, is that they distinguish between attraction - what brings a couple together; and pair bonding - what keeps them together.

MOST members of each sex find common traits favorable, preferable and attractive, but they point out, MOST of us aren't 10's. We are perfectly happy with partners that don't fit the attractive ideals, but odds are there are still common factors that make you decide to pair up.

Some of the findings in the research was just incredible - but like most research, I'm sure is easy to dismiss if you simply aren't buying what their selling.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> What's important to keep in mind, is that they distinguish between attraction - what brings a couple together; and pair bonding - what keeps them together.


That makes sense.


> MOST members of each sex find common traits favorable, preferable and attractive, but they point out, MOST of us aren't 10's. We are perfectly happy with partners that don't fit the attractive ideals, but odds are there are still common factors that make you decide to pair up.
> 
> Some of the findings in the research was just incredible - but like most research, I'm sure is easy to dismiss if you simply aren't buying what their selling.


I don't know what that means. 

The thing that gets iffy is how a documentary can shade and hide findings. I have not watched this one yet. But I saw a documentary by the controversial uber liberal documentary maker whose name escaped me. He used "studies" to demonstrate a bunch of stuff but he went well out of his way TO demonstrate what he was trying to demonstrate. So the bias leaves you with the sinking feeling that there might be more to the story.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Even scientists cannot be 100% objective. They have to interpret and communicate what they observe. The interpretation and communication of what they observe is subjective.

Bob


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

A mirror...hmmm. It might be seeing a clear picture of another person, whether it mimic your own image or not, that actually binds us.

I know I've talked about being borderline, I was diagnosed when I was a teenager at one point. I'm sure many know one of a borderline's traits are mirroring so I'm familiar with the idea. As a teen, I enjoyed the control I got from manipulating the emotions of others by being able to see their weaknesses and used them against them as a way to get out all the emotional intensity I felt...so horrible, I know. I try to be honest with myself to deal with this today.

When I met my husband I couldn't get a clear picture of who he was and so mirroring was futile. I use to sit quietly and listen after asking a lot of questions because I was trying very hard to get a clearer picture of who he was. In the end, he was the one who helped me tremendously because in not allowing me to see him easily, he began to see me. After time, I began to see him as well and though we are totally different, it works.

No relationship is weather proof. I really don't think so. You have two people that have to make the choice to be by the other every day of their lives. I doubt my relationship at times (hence I found TAM), but a part of me wants to believe in the undeniable force of soul mates.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Wasn't there a time when pheromones were to blame for scientific sexual chemistry as well? I believe this science is becoming outdated and unaccepted today.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

They talked about pheromones. This was one of the incredible parts ...
all women found the male pheromone unattractive and unpleasant - unless they were ovulating. In that case they found it attractive.

What was most interesting about the pheromone piece is not so much that they are used for attraction, but they believe scent played a larger role in excluding potential mates, by ruling out close relatives.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> They talked about pheromones. This was one of the incredible parts ...
> all women found the male pheromone unattractive and unpleasant - unless they were ovulating. In that case they found it attractive.
> 
> What was most interesting about the pheromone piece is not so much that they are used for attraction, but they believe scent played a larger role in excluding potential mates, by ruling out close relatives.



There’s was an “experiment” on English TV. If I recall correctly four women were shown photographs of the men and asked to rate them from an attractiveness point of view. Then they were given sweat shirts from the same men and asked to rate them by their odour. They came out exactly the same rating as the photos.

I think it’s called fatal attraction lol.

It was one of Robert Winston’s programs. He’s a fertility expert Robert Winston - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Deejo said:


> They talked about pheromones. This was one of the incredible parts ...
> all women found the male pheromone unattractive and unpleasant - unless they were ovulating. In that case they found it attractive.
> 
> What was most interesting about the pheromone piece is not so much that they are used for attraction, but they believe scent played a larger role in excluding potential mates, by ruling out close relatives.


So if you're attracted to your sister or brother you know there's something wrong with you...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Trenton said:


> So if you're attracted to your sister or brother you know there's something wrong with you...


Bingo. Or ... your sister or brother has a different daddy than you do


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

They didn't talk enough about complementary immunity, which is probably the most important aspect of sexual attraction, after all we evolved sexual reproduction to combat viruses and bacteria. 

Not so sexy though is it? Hey baby, you look like you could fend off the flu, let's get it on!

If you are interested in this area and you are up for an academic read then you should read The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. It changed my view of myself.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

jamesa said:


> They didn't talk enough about complementary immunity, which is probably the most important aspect of sexual attraction, after all we evolved sexual reproduction to combat viruses and bacteria.
> 
> Not so sexy though is it? Hey baby, you look like you could fend off the flu, let's get it on!
> 
> If you are interested in this area and you are up for an academic read then you should read The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. It changed my view of myself.


I really admire Richard Dawkins and have read about meme, the selfish gene and the God Delusion. You do have to note that he hasn't been too lucky in love although married often.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

Trenton said:


> You do have to note that he hasn't been too lucky in love although married often.


You know what, I try to be as rational as I can but we may just be too complex to be able to rationalise marriage, love and sex (if it is right to put those three together). 

I will never stop reading and studying human nature, sexuality etc, but we need to remember that intuition and instinct have a role to play. 

Sometimes we need to relax and trust our instincts.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jamesa said:


> You know what, I try to be as rational but I think we are just too complex to be able to rationalise marriage, love and sex.
> 
> I will never stop reading and studying human nature, sexuality etc, but we need to remember that intuition and instinct play a role.
> 
> Sometimes we need to relax and trust our instincts.


I like, and agree with this too.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Deejo said:


> We can talk about unconditional love and soul mates til we're blue in the face ... you find your soul mate and decide whether or not they are worthy of unconditional love based upon biology, physical queues, and sex rank; and yes ladies and gentlemen ... including how masculine or feminine you are, and how dominant or how much status a male has compared to the competition.


 I think this stuff is pretty much true. Since I have Netflix, Me & husband watched this today. 



jamesa said:


> I just love the fact that we aren't so different to butt sniffing dogs.


 Husband started busting out laughing when it showed the male monkey taking a whiff of the females butt - then sticking it in. 

This was never mentioned in the Documentary, but I would add another factor in WHO we might choose & WHY..... Depending on what "baggage" we have in our own lives- I feel this can play a role in who we may end up with also. I was just 15 when I met my husband. Coming from a broken home, seeing how my Mother was "used" by many 'attractive" men & thrown away, I vowed from a young age this would NEVER happen to me. Then she left me & I was raised by a Step Mom who only wanted my dad in the house.  My personal dreams /prayers in finding "my sole mate", even at that age, had more to do with STABILITY, the long term, would this man allow me the kids I want, the family I want to build, BE a good father, would he love me with all of MY faults & stick by me no matter what. (I gave him plenty of testing to see how faithful he was, how deep was his love). 

For me, it was never all about Lusty attraction & the excitement of youth. Maybe should have been in these experimental carefree yrs, but this dysfunctional baggage of mine hindered how I felt about myself & the fears of what the more sought after men are capable of -basically cheating, leaving you in the dust. I had some opportunities but I simply seen them as TOO much of a Risk. 

I would say my husband was rather low on most pecking order scales. Not into sports, not the life of any parties, wore geeky glasses, quiet & shy. Physically I was happy with his looks/body & he was healthy - relatives all living into old age. This was a big one for me, I did size this up, aside from physical attraction, this is like #1. 

Never really thought of it before, but after watching this -I realized I probably DID stick around in the beginning because of a few things. He had a new car, a job & he lavished me taking me out & buying me things. Looking back, I do wonder IF I would have stayed with him had he not had the car & some $$. This added to his pecking order. Even with his shy ways, he got me in the door, then in time, we bonded. 

Just like the Documentary showed, women are always sizing you up, it is MORE than looks, we look for stability. They showed lesser attractive guys who women rated as a 4 or 5 -then when they added a killer job at the bottom with Big $$, the rating changed making them a 9 or 10 suddenly. 



Trenton said:


> Science studies our physical and mental cause and effect but lacks the ability to definitively give clear answers when it comes to human nature. Science of the mind is the weakest science there is. We can understand how at times but can never understand why. Religion addresses the why but has to discount science to do so. It's very interesting really.


 I think a little differently here. I think Science has come leaps & bounds in understanding us, our minds, why we love, what keeps us in love. Especially how our level of hormones affect our minds & our Love life. I have this book -love it Amazon.com: This is Your Brain in Love: New Scientific Breakthroughs for a More Passionate and Emotionally Healthy Marriage (9780785228752): Dr. Earl Henslin, Dr. Daniel Amen: Books



Deejo said:


> What's important to keep in mind, is that they distinguish between attraction - what brings a couple together; and pair bonding - what keeps them together.


 The last half hour of this Documentary was about 3 hormones - *Testosterone* (lust hormone), *Dophamine* (this addicting "can't live without you" passion feeling -can be compared to a cocaine "high") and *Vasopressin *(the bonding -monogomy hormone). I always say I am a little high on Dophamine (I have an additive personality & right now my addiction is sex & my husband) and I think my husband is a little high on the Vasopressin one - so I believe this helps with our marriage in many ways.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Don't let knowledge stop your wonder and amazement, a lot of adults make this mistake.


You can cut the condescension with a knife.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Conrad said:


> You can cut the condescension with a knife.


Not my intent, is it yours?...


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

SA, at my core I don't believe that the simplicity of who we are boils down to DNA mixed with pheromones and hormones. We have experiences, will and the ability to empathize. Science will constantly change, it always has and always will by definition. We may think we are getting closer to understanding but I do not believe we really are. You'd have to step away and get a look at the bigger picture and I don't feel that we are quite there yet. It's just my opinion. I understand it's not shared by many.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Not my intent, is it yours?...


What else could you have meant?

If you don't know, let me help (this is now pure condescension, btw)

_–verb (used without object)
1.
to behave as if one is conscious of descending from a superior position, rank, or dignity. _

"Don't let knowledge stop your wonder and amazement?"

Implying that you - alone - are the keeper of "knowledge"?

Could you have written something MORE condescending?

And it's "not your intention"

What IS your intention?


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Conrad said:


> What else could you have meant?
> 
> If you don't know, let me help (this is now pure condescension, btw)
> 
> ...


We should be careful or NG is going to accuse us of having a pissing match 

(was that condescending?)

What I actually meant was that I've seen many adults give up wonder and amazement for knowledge and that both are important, not that I, alone, am the keeper of wonder and amazement (sorry edited because I wrote knowledge by mistake and we know I'm not the keeper of that)--(not intended to be condescending). I lose it all the time but try to get back to it.

My intention is to give up what I think and feel, communicate, take in what others have to say and adjust or not adjust what I think and feel.

What's your intention?

Come to think about it, Conrad, isn't your whole retard line in your signature a tad bit condescending?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I'll remove the line from my signature the minute the author of the phrase apologizes for it - and not before.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I'll remove the line from my signature the minute the author of the phrase apologizes for it - and not before.


Who is the author, is it I? If it is, I apologize. I apologize more for not remembering when or in what context I said it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Trenton said:


> Who is the author, is it I? If it is, I apologize. I apologize more for not remembering when or in what context I said it.




I don't think it is you. 

If he means someone on the forum, I think I know who he means!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think this stuff is pretty much true. Since I have Netflix, Me & husband watched this today.
> 
> 
> The last half hour of this Documentary was about 3 hormones - *Testosterone* (lust hormone), *Dophamine* (this addicting "can't live without you" passion feeling -can be compared to a cocaine "high") and *Vasopressin *(the bonding -monogomy hormone). I always say I am a little high on Dophamine (I have an additive personality & right now my addiction is sex & my husband) and I think my husband is a little high on the Vasopressin one - so I believe this helps with our marriage in many ways.


Glad you got to see it.

I also agree that personal experience shapes how we go about looking for a mate.

I found the brain chemical piece probably the most interesting. Because regardless of our deepest hopes, desires, wishes or who we think we are - very specific things happen or don't happen, when particular chemicals or hormones are present in abundance, or if they are lacking.

Did find it interesting that women in long term relationships get triggered for promiscuity when they are in a 'target rich environment' moreso than single females.

I always appreciate your chiming in about 'drive' and 'urge' and 'roaming' when it comes to testosterone SA. Also found it interesting that testosterone can be transmitted via saliva in kissing - as a turn on. 

Much like your husband, I'm a one and done kind of guy. For all of my bluster with the ex when my marriage was in the tank, I could not bring myself to physically cheat ... at least that was the case until I knew that she had.

I got me lots of vasopressin, and I'm presuming have generally been on the low end of the testosterone pool. Dopamine? No clue. Although I do recall vividly doing cocaine in my 20's, and vowing to myself that I would never touch it again. I felt fantastic. Not high ... best description I can give is it was the equivalent of my ADD meds. I felt 'wired in', completely.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I really believe there is one heck of a lot of chemistry involved in “pair bonding”. The chemistry gives off signals of that “true love” and “the only one for me” type of feeling. People from the outside looking in will say something like “I simply can’t see what they see in one another”. That’ll be the couples chemistry at work.

That chemistry can blind us to many things. We “idealise” and hence the expression “True love is blind” and all that.

At times I visualise my stbx being in here at home. I think all I would see is a stranger. I know that chemistry is gone now. I think I’m low in testosterone, I’ll get myself checked out. But that could very well explain the chemistry side of things. I have been thinking this way for quite a while. I haven’t done anything about it because now the chemistry is gone I’m no longer idealising my stbx and I’m seeing and understanding her a lot more clearly than ever before. My in love blindness has gone type of thing.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

AFEH said:


> At times I visualise my stbx being in here at home. I think all I would see is a stranger. I know that chemistry is gone now.


Although the memory of it can linger for a very long time after the fact. I'm convinced that 'chemical memory' may have more to do with difficulty in letting go than simply being sentimental or dysfunctional.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Also found it interesting that testosterone can be transmitted via saliva in kissing - as a turn on.


This was the 1st I ever heard of that also. 




Deejo said:


> I got me lots of vasopressin, and I'm presuming have generally been on the low end of the testosterone pool.


I am sure you are doing a fine assesment on yourself. Funny, how you & my husband are ALOT alike. *Vasopressin* keeps people from extremes, including emotional & sexual extremes. It improves cognition and sensible behavior. It enhances attention & alertness while reducing emotionalism. Vasoprssin is also used to treat memory disorders & amnesia .

Test & Dopamine can both cause extremes ! So all men & women NEED a nice amount of vasopressin to keep us stable. It is a "peptide" generated from the medial preoptic nucleus (sex center in the brain). Taken from this book Amazon.com: The Alchemy of Love and Lust (9780671004446): Theresa L. Crenshaw: Books



Deejo said:


> Dopamine? No clue. Although I do recall vividly doing cocaine in my 20's, and vowing to myself that I would never touch it again. I felt fantastic. Not high


If you are feeling FANTASTIC, then you at least have adequate Dopamine levels. It improves alertness & energy. Those who are depressed are lacking this hormone & treatment is geared to UP their Dopamine levels. Some also feel it is the "missing link" in the treatment of sexual aversion. 

*Dopamine* is DESIRE personified, not just for sex but ANY pursuit of pleasure. Without enough, we flatten out, feel no joy, no anticipation of pleasure, enthusiasm, excitement, exuberance. Dophamine is the common denominater of most ALL addictions from cocaine to alcohlism. Since it's key role is to promote the anticipation of pleasure, it generally increases our sex drive. And then makes us want to do it again & again & again. You could say "Dopamine MOVES US", literally & figuratively. When we want something, it is Dopamine that gets us up into the car or into bed, so we get it, instead of just sitting around & thinking about it >>> boy does this ever describe ME! Husband & friends have always said I am like the Energizer Bunny also. Then to top this off - in a list of things that INCREASE dopamine is testosterone & sexual activity! Also on this list is the drug "Wellbutrin" -probably why they say this one helps with low sex drive. 

I think if I could give my husband some of my extra Dopamine & he could give me some of his extra Vasopressin, I feel this would evaporate many of my overly emotional & enthusiatic spats. 

Yes, our hormones seem to have us all by the balls.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

So life is just the interplay between dopamine and seritonin?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

michzz said:


> So life is just the interplay between dopamine and seritonin?


With some ethyl alcohol mixed in occasionally.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

michzz said:


> So life is just the interplay between dopamine and seritonin?


*Here are some facts about Serotnin*: 

* Seratonin & Testosterone are like a seesaw, with "Seratonin down, Testosterone up" being a natural state for men and the exact opposite "Serotonin up, Testosterone down" being the natural state for women. Apparently this inborn formula depresses sexuality & aggression in women, in contrast to men. When either of these ratios is altered in 1 direction or the other, the result is comparable degrees in hypersexuality or Hypo-sexuality. 


* Is more abundant & influential in women
* can decrease anxiousness & aggressiveness 
* has a preferred relationship with estrogen
* increases prolactin 
* is primary inhibiting , inhibits sex drive, inhibits orgasm
* promotes contentment 
* blunts impulsive peasureable arousal 
* causes cravings for sweets & carbs

*Serotonin is used to Treat *:

* Depression, Obsessive Compulsive disorder , panic, anxiety, 
Phobia, and pms

*Increases Serotonin: *
* Prozac & other uptake inhibitors, obesity & castration

*Lowers Serotonin*:

* Dieting, PEA, phenylalanine, lysine, PCPA


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deejo said:


> With some ethyl alcohol mixed in occasionally.


That last ingredient is the real wild card.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Conrad said:


> That last ingredient is the real wild card.


 I don't even know what these things are - but the Pharmacist knows. So what is the wild card and why? 

.....PEA, phenylalanine, lysine, PCPA


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't even know what these things are - but the Pharmacist knows. So what is the wild card and why?
> 
> .....PEA, phenylalanine, lysine, PCPA


The wild card?

Alcohol.

It helps keep the slumpbusters in business.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't think I originated the idea that Conrad was a retard - I just kind of went with the flow there.

Let me know if I'm wrong...

Why am I so attracted to Selma Hayek? I bet she smells great...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

nice777guy said:


> Why am I so attracted to Selma Hayek? I bet she smells great...


I bet she's never even smelled mildly unpleasant.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Deejo said:


> You don't need to know how the engine works in order to drive a car. But in discovering how the engine works you get a greater appreciation for the car itself.


Deejo.....I love this one !!!!!

That is so true and if I would have known that one sooner, my marriage wouldn't be in trouble !!!!

I didn't know how my husband "works" and therefor never showed how much I appreciate him.....

One can never learn enough.....thanks so much for this one !!!! :smthumbup:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I don't think I originated the idea that Conrad was a retard - I just kind of went with the flow there.
> 
> Let me know if I'm wrong...
> 
> Why am I so attracted to Selma Hayek? I bet she smells great...


NG,

You didn't originate the concept, but your brilliant ripostes certainly make me look like a mental midget by comparison.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Conrad said:


> NG,
> 
> You didn't originate the concept, but your brilliant ripostes certainly make me look like a mental midget by comparison.


Now I gotta go look up "ripostes"...


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