# CHANGE ..from Dating to VOWS to NOW...who/what & why -could it be weathered?



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I see it all the time in TAM posts..... *"EVERYONE CHANGES*".....we're supposed to change as the years progress....but HOW much of WHO WE REALLY ARE at our core 
changes with the years...(how we envisioned our future, our deepest longings, what brings us happiness, how we communicate, our humor style, our dreams, goals and HOW WE LOVE)... 

I assume the vast majority were so happy on their wedding day..they thought they could conquer the world together...after all that's why we get married







...this thread is about what REALLY CHANGED...WHO CHANGED...to bring you to where you are now....what caused the collide... or did one spouse change while the other remained the same...

I often see posters give links to how our brains are not fully developed till age 25... taken from one such article...



> According to new studies, the pre-frontal cortex usually does not reach a level of genuine maturity until someone reaches their mid-twenties! "It's sort of unfair to expect [teens] to have adult levels of organizational skills or decision-making before their brains are finished being built"


 Yet many has married before this... and it has lasted... or after our mid 20's...still marital strife seems to reign... So what are people missing during dating...is it a matter of NOT getting to know each other deeply/ vulnerably ENOUGH ....

What best describes your situation in hindsight... 

*1.* Missing Red Flags







...







...







.. *caught up in the "whirlwind / dopamine rush / "LOVE can conquer all" mentality.* Maybe friends / relatives even pointed them out...but you felt they were all wrong. 

*2.* Partner misrepresented himself/ herself...(Ex...Man treats his girl like a Queen....ends up an abuser after the Vows..or Girlfriend very sexual / then suddenly the sex dies once the ring is on the finger)...and it feels like a "Bait & Switch"....

*3* No Misrepresentation ...all was discussed/ agreed upon going in/ no blinders ...then after so many yrs...*Priorities change*..and one feels deeply blindsided...(Example....Agreeing to have children, then one changes his or her mind...) 

*4* Lacking Self awareness to own's own needs & desires in Marriage...maybe low self esteem..."Settled"... Naive....went in blindly...not asking enough questions .... realized later ...very little compatibility ...

*5* We haven't really changed much......what we wanted then...it still what we'd want today... the smaller changes that came... we grew & weathered together...

*6* We've changed A LOT over the years, growing pains to show for it....but here we are, we are still Kicking...our foundation was strong & come hell or high water...we've made it work...kinda like the words from the Notebook ...fighting it out >>











*7* None of the above... please explain...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I voted "lacked awareness" answer because I had only given thought to the romanticism and fairytale versin of marriage. TBH, the proposal was a shock, I was just happy that the relationship didn't change after finally giving my virginity. So I had no idea what my needs were for a relationship, especially given that he was my first boyfriend other than mid-teen attempts at having a boyfriend (I just wasn't in to them at all).

Sex was EXTREMELY vanilla before marriage, never spent the night together, never even got totally naked, most sneaking sex after dates. We did have the sex talk which my H swears to this day I mostly "miss-remembered" what was said in that conversation. We really shouldn't have made it according to the circumstances in which we married. 

However, we did and I believe (although most TAM-ers don't believe in this) that we were just a great match for each other, chemistry-wise, personality wise, sex-drive wise. I believe that one of the reason for a lot of marriage failure is people don't take the time to find the right match and that the lust experience before marriage has no staying power to weather any storms that arise. 

It just happen to be the right match for us, but based on how we went about it, it could have been a disaster.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

And another thing, SA, I hope you don't mind me adding this in the mix but I do think it's related. 

It amazes me how many people go forward with engagements on TAM when they are having serious problems during their engagement. I mean some of these "engagements" seem absolutely toxic and yet the person is looking for solutions to move forward. Major issues during engagement would seem to mean this is not the person for you.

Likewise there are many people on here who say "it started shortly before the marriage" regarding whatever issue they are facing now, and yet don't seem to see the connection that the red flags were already there before marrying. JMO, but if you need counseling (other than pre-marital) for issues before marrying, that's not the spouse for you.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I voted 5, little change. We kind of talked about this the other day, we were friends for six years before we even started dating. Plus my wife is 6 years older than I am and was 30 when we got married so she knew what she wanted. Sure there was some change and growth nothing really monumental. 

OK, the big change (menopause) for my wife was a big deal at time. But it seems we're mentally over it now and I think we are in a really good place now and closer than ever.

I do feel very fortunate.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *6* We've changed A LOT over the years, growing pains to show for it....but here we are, we are still Kicking...our foundation was strong & come hell or high water...we've made it work...kinda like the words from the Notebook ...fighting it out >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> *However, we did and I believe (although most TAM-ers don't believe in this) that we were just a great match for each other, chemistry-wise, personality wise, sex-drive wise. I believe that one of the reason for a lot of marriage failure is people don't take the time to find the right match and that the lust experience before marriage has no staying power to weather any storms that arise. **It just happen to be the right match for us, but based on how we went about it, it could have been a disaster.*


Kinda hard to beat a great match,
In anything!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I voted that we changed a lot but did it together. Not sure if this is the ideal answer because I don't think my personality fundamentally changed, but my priorities sure did from being a college student entering marriage vs today. Same goes for my wife I'd say as well. I think it would be accurate to say that many of the negative personality traits fall by the wayside while the positive traits remain IF you and your spouse are dedicated to making a serious attempt at making the marriage great.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Happily married to my 'dream girl," I was totally oblivious to her cheating with other men from her past that she had reconnected with on FB. I was just as happy as a clam engaged in our rather loving marriage. Or so I thought!

Until she announced that she needed a little space per a proposed "trial separation,"greatly under the guise of helping us work out our small differences from afar. Little did I know that it was to get me out of the house where she could be free to bunk in with these guys knowing that I wouldn't be there to interrupt their sordid activities!*


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I voted 4 (lack of self awareness), but there was also a good helping of 1 and 3. I ignored/rationalized a bunch of red flags, and convinced myself that some major incompatibilities were actually just minor differences in our cultures that we could overcome. Then, kids came along, and I grew up a lot. And he didn't. 

Still, all of these things wouldn't have put us where we are if the actual events that went down hadn't gone down. Things had gotten shaky, but it was his actions that made me lose respect and trust, and destroyed our intimacy.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

committed4ever said:


> *I voted "lacked awareness" answer because I had only given thought to the romanticism and fairytale versin of marriage. TBH, the proposal was a shock, I was just happy that the relationship didn't change after finally giving my virginity. So I had no idea what my needs were for a relationship, especially given that he was my first boyfriend other than mid-teen attempts at having a boyfriend (I just wasn't in to them at all).*


 Your story is innocent in it's own way...I wouldn't have thought one who answered "lack of awareness" -that it would have turned out this nicely for you and HE...I have to agree with your take on this though...... that it could have been a disaster IF you weren't so* naturally compatibly matched * ! That chemistry, personality traits & sex drive :smthumbup: 

I used *#4* with my Mother in mind ... their marriage a train wreck, she had NO self awareness, admittedly naive...just did what he wanted...even her mother... while my Father was a *#1* "caught up in the "whirlwind / dopamine rush / "LOVE can conquer all" mentality...He was the BLIND Romantic -too much thinking between the legs too......

The only thing they had in common was ..how they handled $$ and both honest to a fault...which they let it RIP verbally -heated fights...I remember some of those growing up.....a blessing they divorced...

Then my dad married Step Mom...it's been an amazing love story of compatibility. I am a huge proponent of that -especially if we are a little hard to please...



> However, we did and I believe (although most TAM-ers don't believe in this) *that we were just a great match for each other, chemistry-wise, personality wise, sex-drive wise. I believe that one of the reason for a lot of marriage failure is people don't take the time to find the right match and that the lust experience before marriage has no staying power to weather any storms that arise.*










is the heights & all... Love it... Need it... and I'd never downplay fulfillment here .. but so it's been said...it is less than 10% of the marriage...so that other 90%... WOW... how vital these areas ARE when we're out from under the sheets..



> *It just happen to be the right match for us, but based on how we went about it, it could have been a disaster*.


 Great story Committed4ever !


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Your story is innocent in it's own way...I wouldn't have thought one who answered "lack of awareness" -that it would have turned out this nicely for you and HE...I have to agree with your take on this though...... that it could have been a disaster IF you weren't so* naturally compatibly matched * ! That chemistry, personality traits & sex drive :smthumbup:
> 
> Great story Committed4ever !


Thanks SA!

One thing I think about a lot, even though we have a lot of time before dealing with this -- what to tell our girl about this. Do we admit the risks we took but encourage her not to? Do we tell her to follow her heart? Do we just do an arranged marriage?

Just kidding on that last one -- sort of. But I know you probably already dealing with this as some of your kids are right there now. I would guess that the thing that as a parent you want most of all is to steer the kids away from bad choices but in the end having to watch them make mistakes that can be devastating. I wonder if it helps to go in depth with your kids about these issues and try to guide their every step, or if you have to let them make their own mistakes? 

Most of the people except my Dad in my family tried to talk us out of marriage. My Dad was won over by my H secretly asking him to marry me but he didn't tell the rest of my family. But my Mom relunctantly gave her blessing because my H patiently listened to every thing she had to say and stayed consistent in his answer to her -- she is the girl for me I just know it. She is who I want to have a family with and build a life with. 

So ... parents with older kids ... what are you saying/doing /have done/will do about this?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

committed4ever said:


> *It amazes me how many people go forward with engagements on TAM when they are having serious problems during their engagement. I mean some of these "engagements" seem absolutely toxic and yet the person is looking for solutions to move forward. Major issues during engagement would seem to mean this is not the person for you.*
> 
> *Likewise there are many people on here who say "it started shortly before the marriage" regarding whatever issue they are facing now, and yet don't seem to see the connection that the red flags were already there before marrying. JMO, but if you need counseling (other than pre-marital) for issues before marrying, that's not the spouse for you.*


Yes....we see it often on here...it's like they *want to believe* it will get better....if landing here doesn't give them a dose of reality to what lies ahead.. is their any hope for them? ..... I feel what you see & feel in dating IS the best you are going to get...not to expect ANYTHING more. 

I think overwhelmingly couples would say their dating years were their BEST years, most passionate, where the fun & excitement reigned ...carefree...something many couples would like to recapture....

Our story is a little different...because of my teen yrs, wanting out of my house.. life was not always so carefree for me... then I moved in with his parents after living in a camper for a summer. (they lived in the city, I hated the city)....these are external things mind you....and I worked hard to save $$, at one time I had 3 different Jobs... we got along GREAT... but I'd have to say .. I was happier / the happiest when we moved into our own little place...a little house on a country hill, I immediately planned our Big wedding... these are the moments I go back to the most....

I've always felt it was BETTER after we got married....got pregnant right away...it was everything I anticipated marriage would be...we were on cloud 9... both of us... (until I realized we couldn't conceive baby #2)... then I wasn't so fun to deal with.. but he was a GEM.... 



> *CharlieParker said*: *I voted 5, little change. We kind of talked about this the other day, we were friends for six years before we even started dating. Plus my wife is 6 years older than I am and was 30 when we got married so she knew what she wanted. Sure there was some change and growth nothing really monumental.
> 
> OK, the big change (menopause) for my wife was a big deal at time. But it seems we're mentally over it now and I think we are in a really good place now and closer than ever.
> 
> I do feel very fortunate.*


 so you was a young 24 yr old -getting hitched... I think it's great to be friends before Lovers....she didn't Friend Zone you Charlie Parker !!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I answered "Victim of Bait and Switch", but I was young and stupid so I missed a lot of red flags. Had I been 10 years older and had I had several other serious relationships, I would have listened to my gut.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

Right there with you Thor


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> so you was a young 24 yr old -getting hitched... I think it's great to be friends before Lovers....she didn't Friend Zone you Charlie Parker !!


6 years, 18/24 is pretty big, I always thought she was out my league, she admits she ogled my ass longingly.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> *I voted #6*
> 
> For the EXACT reason given the pic above! But interestingly we realized it_ after_, not before marriage.
> Lol, as I look back , we have changed.
> ...


 You said you were young and had a lot of *ideas and ideals*.. was part of this setting your goals TOO HIGH to realistically reach ...not "counting the cost" involved to how this may affect a young marriage...maybe not enough time together, or the financial pressures of Risk- I assume some of this was trying to start your own business..or similar related. 

Yet...stories like yours ...where you waded through the many changes/ maybe felt like building from the ground up even....colliding conflict at times....yet you fought it out together... holding on tight.. vowing "I ain't screwing this up !"..no matter what comes *WE* are in this together.....these couples understand compromise ...and how to resolve by meeting each other half way. Well done ! 

Please do share more CB ~ we want to hear the rest of the story !


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

committed4ever said:


> *One thing I think about a lot, even though we have a lot of time before dealing with this -- what to tell our girl about this. Do we admit the risks we took but encourage her not to? Do we tell her to follow her heart? Do we just do an arranged marriage?*


 Well.. everyone has a different take on beliefs, parenting styles -to *how open* & forthcoming about our own experiences - with our kids.....now coming from a MOM like me... I'd just share the way YOU explained it here in your post... why not...*It's the truth* !... it was RISKY..and you & he were LUCKY..... 

Then hone in on the* importance of compatibility* in MANY AREAS to reduce the risk of problems ahead...not glossing over due to heightened passion/ lust ...just as you shared..... 

When it comes to sexual activity in the teen yrs....Parents are greatly divided .... depending on their beliefs/ or even out of their own experiences...whether casual is encouraged with birth control as early as age 15.. or a teaching that it is best to "wait for Love, someone very special" -to not JUMP, be weary, learn self control, play within your boundaries.... Obviously you know my take on this...

Here is an article that explains the various chemicals released in our brains (& the differences in teen girls vs boys)...keeping in mind they are still not fully developed till their mid 20's....so is casual sex the best way to go ? 

Sexually Transmitted Unease: How Casual Sex Works Bad Chemistry from Good



> But I know you probably already dealing with this as some of your kids are right there now. *I would guess that the thing that as a parent you want most of all is to steer the kids away from bad choices but in the end having to watch them make mistakes that can be devastating. I wonder if it helps to go in depth with your kids about these issues and try to guide their every step, or if you have to let them make their own mistakes?*


 This is how we are....We are very open with our kids... we talk about Ethics..we challenge their thinking.. we ask lots of questions to HOW THEY FEEL.. we listen...when we do this.. .they listen to us... we talk about Love, the dynamics of relationships, beliefs, peer pressure... Sex... all of it...we want them to have a full spectrum view on their choices...and the possible consequences in all things.....

Young love... our 2nd son has been with the same girl for 2 plus years.. they are just 16!! Learning to drive together.. I do worry a little if these 2 don't date another.. It seems they are well matched... much in common....

3rd son... 1st gf broke his heart, he was devastated... he got through it - hated girls for awhile/ what an attitude.. . now he hooked up with one who is a real tomboy with a sick twisted sense of humor -as him...they call themselves married on FB.. yet all they do is goof off . We'll see, they need their FUN...so long as he stays out of her pants.. It's all good!....I believe our boys are smart enough here.... Oldest son... he's on his own...we've had many talks over the years. 



> Most of the people except my Dad in my family tried to talk us out of marriage. *My Dad was won over by my H secretly asking him to marry me but he didn't tell the rest of my family.* But my Mom relunctantly gave her blessing because my H patiently listened to every thing she had to say and stayed consistent in his answer to her -- she is the girl for me I just know it. She is who I want to have a family with and build a life with.


 just wanted to say - in today's day & age, I think it's great to hear of a Boyfriend who goes to the Father & has this conversation...asking for his daughters hand. The gesture alone - it's a sign of *respect* and intention, allowing the Father to give his concerns as well.. man to man. :smthumbup: 



> *So ... parents with older kids ... what are you saying/doing /have done/will do about this?*


 I read this on one of those article about their brains still developing...it said >>



> Knowing the limitations of the adolescent brain does not excuse bad behavior. It does, however, reinforce the need for parents to provide persistent support and guidance. More than ever, adolescents need their parents to be an integral part of their lives. It's not butting in, it's pouring in your love and guidance to protect their future hope, health and happiness.












My biggest fear for our sons is to marry a woman who doesn't love







... or falls for a partier type -when they are not like this themselves (Looks can cause some to loose their brain cells).... or our daughter gets entangled with stalker / abusive /controlling type.. This Mother would be greatly grieved by these things.. I'd do double time to avert them going down this road. 

We all want the very best for our children (and they should feel this)... I would never be able to withhold my concerns with any of them... or the most subtle







's we see.....ESPECIALLY WHILE THEY ARE DATING......its' so important to have that foundation of easy back & forths ....in every season of their lives... in this they are more likely to LISTEN and weigh our concerns......this is all we can do. 

If we come off as controlling, they will just REBEL..and HIDE..... But yeah.....these are their "exploratory years" -learning to find who they are.. what they WANT out of life, they will make mistakes in love.. hopefully they won't be BIG ones!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> So ... parents with older kids ... what are you saying/doing /have done/will do about this?


I talked to my teens (2 daughters and 1 son) about enjoying being the age they are. Don't try to be 24, you have the rest of your life to be older, but you can never be 15 or 16 again. So enjoy being 15 or 16.

My wife talked to the daughters and cut me out of the conversation (and I didn't push it) about the whole sex thing. I didn't know many things about W's teen years at that point, and I wish I had. Though the daughters have turned out just fine, there was some drama during their teen years.

My son I talked to more frankly, and I gave him some condoms when he turned 17. I talked to him about taking responsibility for his own health and contraception, and made him aware of some of the realities of the world.

Some time in the near future I will be telling him a lot more of family history. There were some unplanned pregnancies before marriage in grandparents' generation which he should know about and which will make risks of unprotected sex more real to him.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I voted for we changed a lot. There was also some lack of self-awareness. I had way more work to do than h did. I can be really tenacious at times, good thing or my LD problem would have probably sunk us if I had given up.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *You said you were young and had a lot of ideas and ideals.. was part of this setting your goals TOO HIGH to realistically reach ...not "counting the cost" involved to how this may affect a young marriage...maybe not enough time together, or the financial pressures of Risk- I assume some of this was trying to start your own business..or similar related. *
> 
> Yet...stories like yours ...where you waded through the many changes/ maybe felt like building from the ground up even....colliding conflict at times....yet you fought it out together... holding on tight.. vowing "I ain't screwing this up !"..no matter what comes *WE* are in this together.....these couples understand compromise ...and how to resolve by meeting each other half way. Well done !
> 
> Please do share more CB ~ we want to hear the rest of the story !



Thanks for your encouraging words SA!
The part I highlighted is a part of what happened. The thing about marriage is that no matter how much pre marital counselling you have ,we had a few months, how many books you read about it, and I read lots of books on relationships and marriage, how many marriage seminars you attend, nothing can fully prepare you for what you'll meet after you get married.

Not even if you have lived with each other together before.

I guess that's because most people tend to view marriage as permanent, at least , that's how was and still is with us.

I did some really crazy things because I didn't quite fully grasp the concept of " oneness " in marriage and how my actions would potentially affect my wife. I've always been a high achiever , never afraid of a challenge type of person. I took that attitude into starting a business , and although eventually , it succeeded, it almost cost me my marriage, and I would have been my fault, or at least,that is how I felt at the time.

But we had very supportive family on both sides , and close friends who loved and cared for us, and wanted us to succeed.

There were many, many , many ups and downs.
But we learned that we had to face it together in order for " us" to succeed.

I used to tell her , when times got tough,
" _Hun , it's just you and me against the world.._."

Ultimately, we have both changed for the better. We're no longer two naive , newly weds , thinking that our love would make everything work out fine . But we're two grown people who have weathered the storms, and the storms have brought us closer. Love alone didn't make everything " fine" but being in love was the main ingredient that helped make everything fine.

So even though we have changed individually, and as a couple,
We never fell out of love.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> *Most of the people except my Dad in my family tried to talk us out of marriage. *


Almost everyone except both of our families, and her close friends were against my wife getting married to me.

Interesting things is that most of those people are now divorced.
What is even more weird , is that a few of them have been jokingly asking me what is the secret of a happy ,long marriage. [ forgetting that _they_ advised her not to get married to me...]


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *1.* Missing Red Flags
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A bit of all of them, but 1 stands out. My friends did see her as a b1tch. They also saw that I was going in too deep too fast. But I thought I knew better; Love conquers all. I was sort of right. Underneath her abrasiveness was a fairly insecure girl trying to be strong. I saw that person and that is whom I feel in love with and proposed to. The tough girl thing was an act in my mind.

What I didn’t consider was that she’d need to feel strong against me and turn on me. She was supposed to love me and I was inside that fortress. So, she did exactly what she does; Pushed me to the outside and did things to prove to herself she was strong and couldn’t be controlled by me or this relationship.... and it was always about her own self-doubt and insecurity.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

A mix of three and six. There was a significant change with respect to raising kids but although it was difficult it didn't suck. Mostly six as we have changed but continue to adapt and grow.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I am divorced, and I suppose it was lack of self-awareness and knowing our needs. I suppose we just thought things were good, but we didn't talk about the future, what we wanted out of life, etc. I guess we thought love would just take care of all that, and it did seem to for a long time.

After 18 years, however, my wife said she was no longer happy. I suppose she expected something different from marriage, and apparently I didn't supply it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> The part I highlighted is a part of what happened. The thing about marriage is that no matter how much pre marital counselling you have ,we had a few months, how many books you read about it, *and I read lots of books on relationships and marriage, how many marriage seminars you attend, nothing can fully prepare you for what you'll meet after you get married.*
> 
> Not even if you have lived with each other together before.


 Attended seminars even -sounds you sure had the very best of intentions there -preparing yourself like a new husband should, that is surely more than most DO....

 We've never been to a marriage seminar... can't say I read any marriage books either.... I DID, however, read "*Money management*" books.. this was the ONLY THING I worried about going in.. as I can't stand to be in debt...and we were going to let nature take it's course with getting pregnant..... I would be a nervous wreck if we found we couldn't pay our bills... we had a nice chunk saved when we married / had our wedding paid off when we walked down the aisle ...or we would have never done it otherwise....

We had a little premarital counseling, a requirement to have that Preacher marry us.. He questioned us on many things.. I remember him telling us we seemed to have it all together...I was very open about our dating experience ...6 yrs at that point.....







....It was kinda funny....During the ceremony....he joked that for men, the days can grow a little fuzzy..as the years go past, sometimes men start to forget things....looked at my husband & told him he better to be on his toes....cause "______" is very organized...everyone laughed. 



> *I did some really crazy things because I didn't quite fully grasp the concept of " oneness " in marriage and how my actions would potentially affect my wife. *


 I take it this was more about communication.... not really talking to the wife before going ahead....then she finds out after the fact...then this happens.....









So you had to learn to *let her in*....going forth together...as what affects you also affects her. 

My husband's always wanted my input...this has been a blessing to our marriage...I've always wanted his too, at every turn... I can't even think of a time where one of us went ahead of the other - and it caused a fight.











> *I've always been a high achiever , never afraid of a challenge type of person. I took that attitude into starting a business , and although eventually , it succeeded, it almost cost me my marriage, and I would have been my fault, or at least,that is how I felt at the time.*


 That would be tough.....I'd probably want to strangle you too.. it's the nature of *RISK* though...you made it.. you & she enjoy a very nice lifestyle today many would envy!! 

We weren't Risk takers at all...we never set our sights higher than we thought we could achieve... we are pretty simple people... just give us a piece of land, some privacy , some kids to run in the yard







..& we'd think we had the world... so long as we can pay our bills, we had food on the table & take a couple family vacations every year, this = happiness.... 



> Ultimately, we have both changed for the better. We're no longer two naive , newly weds , thinking that our love would make everything work out fine . But we're two grown people who have weathered the storms, and the storms have brought us closer.* Love alone didn't make everything " fine" but being in love was the main ingredient that helped make everything fine.
> 
> So even though we have changed individually, and as a couple,
> We never fell out of love*.











Thank you for sharing some of your struggles in the beginning CB.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

southbound said:


> we didn't talk about the future, what we wanted out of life, etc.


I always thought I was lucky that we did. Since coming to TAM I realize just how important that was.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *We weren't Risk takers at all...we never set our sights higher than we thought we could achieve... *we are pretty simple people... just give us a piece of land, some privacy , some kids to run in the yard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, I think this was the difference between my wife and I at the beginning and that caused a lot of tension.
I was always driven, a natural gambler. Not gambling in casinos or playing cards or betting or anything like that , but whenever I saw a good opportunity in business , I took it.

She was more conservative , and doubtful.
In the end, we had to work out a formula, a way to balance my optimism with her conservative.

It might sound simple , but it wasn't because of the difference in our personalities and ultimately, it's about money and our future.

I honestly don't think I would advise any young couple to take the risks I did , unless of course they both fully agree with it.

I think what saved us was that I always saw both of us together doing it and winning.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> *Lol, I think this was the difference between my wife and I at the beginning and that caused a lot of tension.
> I was always driven, a natural gambler. Not gambling in casinos or playing cards or betting or anything like that , but whenever I saw a good opportunity in business , I took it.*


Oh speaking of the other type of *Gambling*......when I 1st met my husband, one of the things he did now & then was go to the Horse races.. His dad & him enjoyed this... . in fact his car was bought with one of the big winnings, a brand new silver Olds Delta 88... OH my goodness...Nice... but yet in my mind, that was nothing but pure wasting money... I would never marry a Gambler! 

Now his Father had CONTROL, they never lived paycheck to paycheck - he was responsible.....only spent so much & he was DONE.... (he also went to Dog races, he played Poker too- he was always with his buddies)...but ya know.. I like new experiences - so I told him to take me to the Horse races..







..that was exciting!!...would have been more so had we gotten to the booth on time to put our $$ down on "the play I picked".... cause it would have won us $800...that beginners Luck I guess...but we missed it! DARN! I guess he never had trouble giving that up....we only went about 2 times...he wasn't like his dad... 



> *She was more conservative , and doubtful.
> In the end, we had to work out a formula, a way to balance my optimism with her conservative.
> 
> It might sound simple , but it wasn't because of the difference in our personalities and ultimately, it's about money and our future*.
> ...


 Yeah...the near thought of financial suicide would cause any conservative spender a tremendous weight of worry...and Madness! I can only imagine your Tug of war here !


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think we were probably just a good match. My family thought we were crazy to move in together right away (within a month). I thought dh was way healthier than my family. I thought it was actually less risky to live with him than them.

I just trusted him. He told me recently he felt immediate trust in me, too.

I remember having a feeling of having been waiting for him. It was like we were supposed to meet at the corner lamppost at 9 pm, but he was late that night (this particular lifetime ). He got there at 9:10, and I was annoyed. I needed him earlier  

Dh thinks we are soul mates. I'm not really sure that that means, but we do have a basically harmonious marriage. We have conflict at times, but it seems to get resolved pretty efficiently. We work together, pooling our talents and resources, for the best for our family.

I can't relate to having to read a shelf of marriage books, either.

I did read Seven Habits of Highly Effective People before I met dh, though, and I think that is the best "marriage book" out there.

I think his parents are still disappointed we are together (and we have been together for over 20 years). 

It seems like no matter what life throws at us, somehow we come through it even stronger. 

I am grateful for dh's love, his consistency, his dedication to me and our children. I hope to always be worthy of it.

I guess when the bond is there, it just seems unbreakable.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Other:

No misrepresentation, no red flags, no big changes, no complaints on either end...

Until year 28 when her Mom died. This single event sent her spinning into crises. It was like a switch was flipped.

Suddenly analyzing every thing in her life, even me. Regrets and depression. Revisiting unresolved childhood issues. A MLC. It's been a tough two years for the both of us, but things are slowly getting better. 

I attribute this to me giving her the space she needed to work out issues that really had little to do with me. Also because I was able to put my needs on hold instead of demanding that she meet them, or bailing because she wasn't. This is what showing Real Love is all about, and why I know in the end our marriage and love for each other will be stronger than ever.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AlmostYoung said:


> Other:
> 
> No misrepresentation, no red flags, no big changes, no complaints on either end...
> 
> ...


Ya know ... I was trying to think of all possible scenarios... this is the one I missed...the Dreaded *MID LIFE CRISIS* ....







...

In your case, your wife* needed space*.. to figure it all out.. It seems every Mid Life Crisis situation can be so utterly different...it's like throwing the dice...no rhythm or reason to what may come... 

Someone we know, pretty close...they seemed like they had a solid marriage/family / almost 20 yrs...good character people, never a hint of anything amiss (but from the outside looking in, does anyone really know?).....so it was the shock of shocks learning they were getting a divorce......

The only explanation....something about the husband not wanting to go out dancing with her...He brushed her off saying he did enough of that in their younger years & just wanted to stay home with the kids...and there it went...she started hanging out with single friends, dancing on weekends...found herself getting chummy with a younger Drummer...she stepped outside of the marriage.. the Drummer didn't last.. neither has remarried...that was 13 + years ago.... I know she isn't very happy now either... many struggles.. 

Could they have handled this differently and got through her WILD PHASE - *together?* Or was more lurking underneath that we just didn't know about... that brought it all to a head in mid life? 



I have some thoughts on this... Speaking out of my own experience ... what I call *my Mid Life Crisis* (what landed me here at TAM even)...

Though for us....it's been the BEST thing that's ever happened to our marriage! 

After 6 + yrs of trying to conceive another child....I felt the gates of heaven opened when the babies started coming one after another...this was Our dream, a larger family...we were LIVING IT... We were happy!....the problem...I allowed *US* to be secondary....I put DAD on the back burner... 

We were probably closer than Most ...even with his wanting more from me ....if that even makes sense...we still did EVERYTHING together ... I just could have been more affectionate, showed more "ooomph" towards him.......like when he came home after work, I would think nothing of continuing yakking to a friend on the phone, or being wrapped up in my "Parenting forums" (or whatever was my interest of the day)......I'd let him go to bed without me... not "getting it" how he needed MORE from me... more







/ more holding me at night... then I'd put the babies in bed with us! ...(Why he let me do this I will never understand!).....

Looking back... I can't believe I was this stupid... I would JUMP to tell women DON'T DO THIS !!

Then Mid Life hit.....shortly after having our last son, then dropping our oldest off a College....*something was stirring in me*...

One night I stayed up all night scanning old photos, making a Video of just me & him....added a mushy love song..







when I played this thing back.. the emotions took me by storm.... how did it all go so fast..damn it I thought !.... I wanted to reach in the screen & grab that hot young man & RElive all those years all over again....we were so busy playing Family.... we were missing *US*... It was like a brick hit me!









He got up for work that morning.... he'll say IT started there...Basically how I handled my Mid life Crisis was to jump on his lap and say "TAKE ME, TAKE ME, TAKE ME!"..... 

It was *all sexual*  Hence my name here...He was slowing down a bit, caused me a little frustration...My hormones were going HAYWIRE ...it was messing with my head... I questioned his desire, .. but really...he was WITH ME ALL THE WAY... we talked....we learned...we explored...WE GREW..*and we did it all together*. 

Now had my husband said to me..."Women, you are too much, leave me alone, give me my space "...pushed me away...* when I needed him most*.....I would have been utterly crushed...I am not sure what might have came.... I needed what I needed... I was dealing with something and he showed the greatest of Love in how he handled me.. So that's our story. .. 

For me... I *didn't* want space!! .... The attention/ affection he wanted all those years..he was getting back in a whirlwind...it was so good for us.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I voted number 2. 

We dated for 3 years before getting married and had a great relationship. He was a gentleman and my best friend. He never showed that he had some anger issues, never showed his inability to handle stress well, and was very sexual(started having sex after we got engaged and did it a lot). That changed after marriage, starting right away on our honeymoon. He pushed me away saying he wanted to relax, watching tv, instead if having sex with me. I let it go thinking he was just stressed with starting a new job once we got back, but it continued to be a problem. The stress from work, finances, etc. made him irritable. He would complain often, but didn't do a whole lot to fix the issues. Then a few months later, he showed some of the anger issues. He would flip out over non-issues... Getting mad at a car who sped up to get in front of us, turning into the parking lot. Not a big deal, but he got furious. I was NOT happy about seeing this new side of him that never was there for the 3 years prior. 

We're still struggling with issues today, although the anger issues have gotten much better(that's under control now). His stress levels are still pretty much out of control and he still pulls away from me physically.  I think if I had known what I know now, I would have left him, but am staying in the hopes that the man I dated is in there somewhere and also don't want to tear our family apart for our son's sake.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ya know ... I was trying to think of all possible scenarios... this is the one I missed...the Dreaded *MID LIFE CRISIS* ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a remarkably open and self-aware post. Thank you for taking the time.

I think my ex-wife would say the main problem in our marriage was my mid-life crisis. I would say the main problem was that she would not put in any effort to housework, getting a job, or sex, but had energy for her hobbies. This means I sometimes react badly to the suggestion of mid-life crisis. It can be used as a way of dismissing real issues. My reacting badly to her not lifting a finger was thus re-framed as her being patient while I went on a silly male emotional issues. 

However, I will qualify that. To a certain extent, the marriage did bring on very harsh self-evaluation and while it was arguably the toughest time in my life, I look back on it as perhaps the most valuable time of my life. Good advice I had been given and good examples I had seen started to really hit home for me. This perhaps could be considered a mid-life crisis, but if so it was hugely valuable.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm divorced, and I guess I'd go with the red flag number.

We seemed cut from the same cloth on one hand; we were the same religion, same type of financial upbringing, and both down to earth. I guess I thought love would conquer all, and the differences i saw at the time didn't seem like red flags. 

Personality wise, our families were total opposites. She came from a loud, drama family, and i came from a quiet, no drama family. At the time, she seemed to want to distance herself from the drama and enjoy peace and quiet. Having to be around drama all her life had given her some emotional issues. As time passed, I guess i became even more calm. She was low sex drive, I'm not .......and so it goes.


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