# Need sanity check in middle of wife's seperate vacation



## River555 (May 10, 2015)

First time reader and first time poster. I am having a difficult time right now and have been unhappy in my relationship for a while, but this feeling ebbs and flows. Right now it is ebbing pretty hard.

My immediate crisis is that my wife is in the middle of a week long vacation with some distant girlfriends. I'm was unhappy with her going on this trip to begin with, but didn't feel it was my place to forbid her from going. But the trip doesn't sit well with me AT ALL! Not to mention she planned this trip over Mother's Day and gets back home at midnight on my birthday morning. She knew that this would make things worse (me grumpier, but the date worked for her friends).

I have a counseling appointment set up for June 1st 2015 to sort out my feelings, and we will start couple counseling sessions sometimes after I check my own issues out (am I being controlling, am I just unreasonable, am I too co-dependent, or is my wife being as selfish as I think she is being). 

So the background. . . This trip is six days long with two "friends" that she lived and worked with for 6 months about 15 years ago. Every five years, they go on a reunion. 10 years ago, it was at our house, no big deal. Five years ago, it was to Vegas, and came after we had been in counseling for six months and it sent us right back to counseling. And now this trip, which has us headed straight back to counseling at a minimum. To be sure I am not too worried about affairs on these trips. I mostly have a lot of resentment towards my wife for a great number of things, and these trips are just salt in our already wounded relationship. 

Some of my problems: we don't do much together, yet she does things with her friends incessantly. Two weekends away a year to the coast over the last four or five years, and biweekly lady nights. In that time, weekends away with me has been one or two. We do do a fair amount of date nights but nowhere near as many as she does with her friends. I suggest weekends but get nothing but flak about it being too expensive. I am an introvert, so don't have a lot of close friends and have trouble making new ones (which is difficult while working full time and helping with the kids, while she stays at home which allows her to create her friendships during the day.). So it is hard for me to get an equal amount of my own free time. 

We have mismatched libidos. I have a very high sex drive while hers has dropped off over the years. I am very adventurous (kinky) and she is highly reluctant to try many of my ideas. To self report, this is probably where I haven't been a perfect husband, as I will keep asking for something she has made clear she won't do (asking nicely but still asking too much.). This issue is what sent us to counseling five years ago, but it never got solved. 

I could go on (money, unequal chores when factoring in amount of free time, when she's gone I have to hold a full time job with overtime AND take care of the kids (she gets refreshed but I get bitter and resentful), etc.) but those two things are my main issues. 

My crisis is that I think on divorce a lot and it seems like it is becoming a self fulfilling prophesy. I imagine different scenarios that would push me over the edge (for instance, if she took or even asked to do a BIG trip without me somewhere, like Hawaii or a cruise or the Caribbean, i would either forbid her from going alone, or leave her.) these thoughts in my head I believe are telling me how I am DEEPLY bothered by these seperate trips when she hasn't been putting an even close to equal time into the relationship side of things. Five years ago, I was diagnosed with a type of depression called dysthymia, which is probably how my mind is working right now. So maybe my issue is just a chemical in balance, I don't know. 

My parents both think she is being very selfish. . . This is the first time they ever said anything bad about her in seventeen years of marriage and dating, and it was unsolicited. But they are also 70 years old, and grew up in a simpler time where air travel among the masses didn't seem to be as common as it is today. My sister says she does her own girls weekend trips herself (although not without the joint trips with the husband to balance things out), so I fear that I am being incredibly silly that I would actually follow through with a divorce when it seems the whole world is doing what my wife is doing. Then again, the people that we know doing these trips do do trips together much more often and are in two income families where money is not such a hot commodity. 

My sisters advice was well just do a trip together when she gets back . . . But that seems to be incredibly easy for my wife to do and have all of the anxiety and resentment that I have been experiencing be forgiven, especially since I fear that her time away from me won't be reduced and the time with me will be somewhat halfhearted . . . 

I am just looking for a sanity check, is divorce crazy in my scenario, especially with three kids aged six to eleven. Are others doing seperate vacations, especially when one spouse has such a problem with it (even if having a problem with it is unreasonable and controlling). I have to wait till June for counseling, but I could really use a fresh and independent perspective. Thank you for reading, and thank you for any advice.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

No, you're not insane. No, divorce is not crazy in your scenario.

I am real big on recommending Counseling, and it sounds like you could use a lot, in your situation.

As you describe things, it seems like your wife doesn't much like you. In case that is unclear, it seems like she doesn't LOVE you at all.

Now let me clarify that a little bit- it's not that separate vacations are 100% inappropriate. Its that your wife sounds completely un-interested in putting effort into doing things with you. That, combined with the fact that she puts lots of effort into all these other things, is what indicates that she has no use for you, except as someone to take care of stuff while she goes and lives life.

Advice? Sure.

Stop doing everything you are doing.

Stop being a doormat. Stop being a Nice Guy. Stop being an introvert.

But first, you have to understand what you ARE doing, so that you can STOP doing it.

For example.

You work all day, and work overtime, so that your wife can stay home all day while the kids are at school and talk to interesting men on Facebook, and arrange trips to meet them.
Then she will pretend that they are girlfriends, and you will let her.

So. You the first thing you should do is stop letting her have access to enough money to fund trips with her "friends." 

See, you should already know this. And the fact that you can't figure it out on your own, actually, brings us back to Counseling!

You need more than one session of Individual Counseling. See, you need to educate yourself about relationship boundaries. You need to know what constitutes acceptable behavior in a relationship. A good Counselor can help you to figure that out and apply it to your marriage.

You have low self esteem. You are married to a woman who treats you poorly, finds you dull, and puts more effort into getting away from you than she does being with you. And she doesn't like having sex with you,either.

And you are frustrated about this state of affairs, but not so frustrated that you're ready to blow it up. So a good Counselor can also help you along, to where you like yourself a lot better, and think that you merit better treatment in your marriage.

But those Counselors are expensive.

So when you go visit one, don't waste a bunch of time and money trying to figure out "why am I so miserable?"

Start digging into the things about you that you need to understand and improve to make you a better man.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Yup, read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. R. Glover. It may help.

I don't think you are unreasonable. Her trips etc are not out of line, but they are out of balance compared to how much effort she is putting into the marriage.

Going to counseling sounds like a good idea to me. Get a professional opinion from someone who has heard it all, and where you can tell a lot more than you can here on this forum. You might be having some over reactions to what is a crummy situation. It may be possible to rescue this marriage. Or maybe not. I think getting some IC for you and then MC for the two of you will help you resolve this one way or the other.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

From what you have written...I don't think you are being controlling. 

I think that your wife isn't putting effort into your marriage and that reasonably bothers you. 

And I think when someone doesn't prioritize their marriage, the other person really can't fix it. 

I am not saying you have to divorce her...But there's a bunch of red flags in this scenario. 

Perhaps I'm biased. 
For years the biggest fight I had with my X is that he wouldn't put our marriage first. We fought a lot about it. In the end, he cheated on me. I would have never guessed that he would cheat on me. 

But even if he hadn't cheated on me...the reality is that our marriage wasn't his priority, and it should have been. That's just all there is to it. 

And I made the same mistake...I wondered if I was too controlling. I wasn't. When I look back, I worked very hard to make sure he was getting his needs met and I sacrificed my own needs. It wasn't worth it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I also think your wife doesn't much like you and doesn't want to spend time with you. THAT is what needs be addressed, not complaining about her going on trips. Even if she stops your fundamental issue is still there, that she doesn't like you. Get some counseling for that. 

And for cripes sake stop pushing things she doesn't want. That probably contributes to her not wanting to spend time with you. 

Either attempt to repair the relationship or split up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

River555 said:


> First time reader and first time poster. I am having a difficult time right now and have been unhappy in my relationship for a while, but this feeling ebbs and flows. Right now it is ebbing pretty hard.
> 
> My immediate crisis is that my wife is in the middle of a week long vacation with some distant girlfriends. I'm was unhappy with her going on this trip to begin with, but didn't feel it was my place to forbid her from going. But the trip doesn't sit well with me AT ALL! Not to mention she planned this trip over Mother's Day and gets back home at midnight on my birthday morning. She knew that this would make things worse (me grumpier, but the date worked for her friends).
> 
> ...


no. She is taking vacations without you after years of therapy. She is already checked out. It's probably time to move on and find a better relationship.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm a girls' group of about 10 women and "we" do trips every single year. Sometimes I go, and sometimes I don't, but some of the women have done them every year. I love them and the "worst" thing that has ever happened on one of those trips was one of the gals got drunk and participated in a wet T shirt contest at Coyote Ugly in Vegas. (Then made us delete all pics the second it was over). 

I see a lot of things going on in your marriage. I'm not sure why you think because she's a SAHM she has so many more opportunities than you do to make friends. You're out in the world all day, presumably showered and dressed nicely, and she is not. Being a SAHM can be isolating and is very hard work. 

You're clearly very resentful of your wife, but I really am not getting the feeling here that it is entirely justified. 

Can you afford a family vacation this summer? Or a vacation with just you and her? If so, plan it. Tell her you're not taking no for an answer because it is important for your relationship and you want to spend time with her. Leave her girls' trips and your jealousy about them out of it.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

She's done some serious damage to you. 

You do the bulk of chores, work, work OT, the yard work, pay all the bills, allow her to go out biweekly nights and long distance trips.

She in turn, makes you feel guilty for asking for spice in the bedroom. Forcing you into therapy for the nerve of it. Has no interest in spending time with you.

I do agree counseling would be good, but to determine your lack of self respect.

How many kids do you have, and ages?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> She's done some serious damage to you.
> 
> You do the bulk of chores, work, work OT, the yard work, pay all the bills, allow her to go out biweekly nights and long distance trips.
> 
> ...


Be very careful not to imply that because he works and she doesn't he's now owed certain sex acts. That isn't how relationships work.

He doesn't say they don't have sex, but he does say he keeps pushing things she doesn't want. That's not going to make anyone look forward to together time, especially because you don't know what those acts are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Interesting, people explain how it looks bad, but you think it makes you look silly. You have made excuses for some of her actions. 

Separate trips are cool, but when they aren't reciprocated I'd have a problem. 

Fun with friends is cool, unless you turn me down and give me crap for wanting some alone time with you.

Sorry, 10 trips vs maybe two, plus no weekend getaways? We'd have a huge problem.

Be prepared, your sex drive and fetishes will be attacked shortly.

Anyway, go get counseling again and then learn how to get out of the house. She doesn't want to go on a weekend trip? Get out and do your own thing. She wants to cry about kids and money, point out the 2 trips a year and biweekly girls night out. You know, like those are cheap. Personally, it sounds like she wants you to save money for her to party.

Yes, a stay at home mom needs a break. I would never say what you earn is better or more valuable than what she does in parenting. Still, biweekly GNOs, date nights with you and two trips a year by herself is not equal or inexpensive.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Let's not forget it's a lot easier to go away without a spouse (i.e. girls/guys weekends) because of a built in baby sitter back at home with the kids..... Not saying your wife should not want to go away with you on weekends, but it's a heck of a lot easier when you don't have to find childcare.....


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Be very careful not to imply that because he works and she doesn't he's now owed certain sex acts. That isn't how relationships work.
> 
> He doesn't say they don't have sex, but he does say he keeps pushing things she doesn't want. That's not going to make anyone look forward to together time, especially because you don't know what those acts are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not my intention at all - two separate issues that maybe I didn't mark clear.

He isn't owed extra-curricular (beyond traditional) sex acts, because he is the bread winner or for any other reason.

But -- at least as OP frames it-- they end up in therapy because he is asking for above and beyond. Of all the things they need therapy for -- THIS sparks the therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Do me a favor OP, give a ballpark amount? 



> I will keep asking for something she has made clear she won't do (asking nicely but still asking too much.). This issue is what sent us to counseling five years ago, but it never got solved.


Please define too much.



> Let's not forget it's a lot easier to go away without a spouse (i.e. girls/guys weekends)


I didn't forget, it is the disparity that gets me.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Granted we are getting one side of the story here, but I fail to see anything wife does for the health of their relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

Move your money into a separate account(and have your paycheck direct deposited into that account). Give her a weekly stipend for the groceries/gas/kids....nothing more, that will curtail her social life with friends. 

Maybe she'll even appreciate date nights with you if it's the only time she gets to out for dinner.

Has your wife been a SAHM for all 17 years of marriage? The youngest is 6 now and I'm assuming in school all day. What is she doing all day besides going out on the town with her friends? The kids are old enough where she should have a part time job. At the very LEAST she should be taking care of the household chores while you are at work.

Can you explain to us exactly what your wife brings to the relationship if anything?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Youngster said:


> Move your money into a separate account(and have your paycheck direct deposited into that account). Give her a weekly stipend for the groceries/gas/kids....nothing more, that will curtail her social life with friends.
> 
> Maybe she'll even appreciate date nights with you if it's the only time she gets to out for dinner.
> 
> ...



You mean move money to show her who's boss? Yeah, that'll be great for the relationship, and maybe he can use it to strong arm her into the various sex acts he's pushing for. If I was a sahm and my hb pulled that I'd divorce him and sue him for alimony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> You mean move money to show her who's boss? Yeah, that'll be great for the relationship, and maybe he can use it to strong arm her into the various sex acts he's pushing for. If I was a sahm and my hb pulled that I'd divorce him and sue him for alimony.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I do not like how "ask" has been replaced with push and pushing. 

This is why I said your sex comment will be used against you.

Good luck dude, get that individual counseling first. Wait and see what is discovered before any marriage counseling.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Not my intention at all - two separate issues that maybe I didn't mark clear.
> 
> He isn't owed extra-curricular (beyond traditional) sex acts, because he is the bread winner or for any other reason.
> 
> ...



We really need specifics. Maybe he's heavily into porn and keeps asking for anal or threesomes, we don't know. Asking for therapy for such a thing could mean anything from her dodging issues to him having a porn addiction to it causing lots of disconnect and resentment in the relationship. I know if my hb kept pushing things I didn't want the trust would erode and our relationship would be damaged. 

The fundamental issue isn't that he's not getting sex acts he wants, it's that his wife doesn't want to spend time with him. Period. He needs to find out why. The reasons may be reasonable or not, but controlling the money or b!tching her into not going on vacation isn't going to solve anything. 

I recognize this dynamic because I had it with my ex. He was a d0uche that treated me like crap so I did everything I could to avoid spending any time with him, especially in the bedroom as I got nothing out of it. If he can identify why she avoids him he can decide if it's fixable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I do not like how "ask" has been replaced with push and pushing.
> 
> This is why I said your sex comment will be used against you.
> 
> Good luck dude, get that individual counseling first. Wait and see what is discovered before any marriage counseling.



How is "keep asking" different from pushing? By all means ask for what you want, but what would you hope to accomplish by continuing to ask if it's not pushing?

I would like to get a cat, but my hb isn't crazy about the idea. If I keep asking doesn't it at some point become pushing? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> You mean move money to show her who's boss? Yeah, that'll be great for the relationship, and maybe he can use it to strong arm her into the various sex acts he's pushing for. If I was a sahm and my hb pulled that I'd divorce him and sue him for alimony.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you missed these parts of the original post?

Some of my problems: we don't do much together, *yet she does things with her friends incessantly. Two weekends away a year to the coast over the last four or five years, and biweekly lady nights. In that time, weekends away with me has been one or two. *

I said NOTHING about sex acts. 

I said he should take her play money away until she can be a proper wife and spend some quality time with HIM. She's out playing around with her girlfriends while the OP is working.

*If I was a sahm and my hb pulled that I'd divorce him and sue him for alimony.*

Really wow.......


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Youngster said:


> So you missed these parts of the original post?
> 
> Some of my problems: we don't do much together, *yet she does things with her friends incessantly. Two weekends away a year to the coast over the last four or five years, and biweekly lady nights. In that time, weekends away with me has been one or two. *
> 
> ...


Oh I'm not saying they don't have issues, only that him controlling the money like her father oe boss until he can get her to behave to his liking (like her father or boss) isn't going to solve anything. And damn straight, if my hb essentially told me that I'd get my allowance back when I started acting according to his standards like his employee you're damn right I'd divorce him. I'm married to my partner, not my father or employer.

That's not a partnership, that's an employee/employer relationship. 

Now if he came to me as a partner and voiced concerns about the state of the relationship and told me that the current dynamic wasn't working for him that's different. If he's done this and she's ignored him she's checked out and the marriage marriage is probably over.

If you'd read my posts you'd see that I don't even think the real issue is sex, I only suggested that continuing to push for things she doesn't want isn't going to help. He was the one that brought up the drives and her knowing that every time they have sex he's going to push what she doesn't want might contribute. 

The real issue is that she doesn't like him, and controlling the money isn't going to create a good relationship. If he can find out what's going on he can decide if it might be fixable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Oh I'm not saying they don't have issues, only that him controlling the money like her father oe boss until he can get her to behave to his liking (like her father or boss) isn't going to solve anything. And damn straight, if my hb essentially told me that I'd get my allowance back when I started acting according to his standards like his employee you're damn right I'd divorce him. I'm married to my partner, not my father or employer.
> 
> That's not a partnership, that's an employee/employer relationship.
> 
> ...



I disagree. She's out partying with a group of friends that are at best taking her away from her duties as a spouse. My guess is that they're actively contributing to her bad behavior. If the OP takes away the money she's blowing with her friends maybe she'll spend less time with her friends and more time with him and the family.

The OP has a responsibility to PROVIDE for his wife but he is in no way obligated to finance her partying lifestyle. Should she have an open-ended checking account? What if the family is going into debt? How is this any type of partnership?

Would you allow your not-working husband to go drinking with buddies and take golf vacations while you stayed home and worked?  

I think the real issue is that he needs to stop putting up with her BS. Taking away her money will at least show her how she'll live once they're divorced......because that's the way this relationship is going right now.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Youngster said:


> I disagree. She's out partying with a group of friends that are at best taking her away from her duties as a spouse. My guess is that they're actively contributing to her bad behavior. If the OP takes away the money she's blowing with her friends maybe she'll spend less time with her friends and more time with him and the family.
> 
> The OP has a responsibility to PROVIDE for his wife but he is in no way obligated to finance her partying lifestyle. Should she have an open-ended checking account? What if the family is going into debt? How is this any type of partnership?
> 
> ...


He said "bi-weekly lady nights." For all we know, this could be Bible study or scrap-booking. He did not say partying.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I agree that the core issue is that she doesn't like spending time with him. Because that definitely bleeds into everything - sex included. 

And the only way to fix that is to figure out why and then decide whether it's fixable. Largely that's going to be up to you. 

And THAT should be the focus of counseling. 

As far as sex goes. I don't care how 'nice' your tone is, if you keep asking for something your spouse doesn't want to do - that IS pressuring them. 

And oddly enough the sole bread winner thing works against you here because that creates a built in power imbalance. You combine a power imbalance with pressure - that's a powder keg.

You typically know how wide your spouse's sexual comfort zone is before having kids. It's not cool to decide you need more kinky-ness AFTER having kids. 

You can take two totally different approaches to counseling:
- You're treating me bad - I don't like it - YOU ARE the reason our marriage is failing
OR
- I want to improve our marriage. I want you to WANT to spend time with me. What do I need to change for that to happen?

That doesn't mean being a doormat - that means being lovable. Part of being lovable is being secure. 

I'm not suggesting your issues aren't real. Just that none of them ar solvable until your wife wants to be with you....





lifeistooshort said:


> We really need specifics. Maybe he's heavily into porn and keeps asking for anal or threesomes, we don't know. Asking for therapy for such a thing could mean anything from her dodging issues to him having a porn addiction to it causing lots of disconnect and resentment in the relationship. I know if my hb kept pushing things I didn't want the trust would erode and our relationship would be damaged.
> 
> The fundamental issue isn't that he's not getting sex acts he wants, it's that his wife doesn't want to spend time with him. Period. He needs to find out why. The reasons may be reasonable or not, but controlling the money or b!tching her into not going on vacation isn't going to solve anything.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes to The post below from Life. 

I'd like to add: It's perfectly fine to work together to create a mutually fair budget and expect your spouse to follow it. 

But the budget cannot be used to prevent her from socializing. And it can't be punitive. 

Weaponizing finances is every bit as toxic as weaponizing your sex life. 

And for clarity I don't believe his W is weaponizing their sex life. Sounds like she simply has a lower drive and a narrower comfort zone. Likely exacerbated by the fact that outside the bedroom the marriage is weak. 





lifeistooshort said:


> Oh I'm not saying they don't have issues, only that him controlling the money like her father oe boss until he can get her to behave to his liking (like her father or boss) isn't going to solve anything. And damn straight, if my hb essentially told me that I'd get my allowance back when I started acting according to his standards like his employee you're damn right I'd divorce him. I'm married to my partner, not my father or employer.
> 
> That's not a partnership, that's an employee/employer relationship.
> 
> ...


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You sounds insecure, resentful and jealous of your wife's life. Being a SAHM is a tough job and she deserves a break. I don't see anything wrong with her going on a trip with friends. I don't know why that would get you grumpy. You are jealous that she has friends and you don't. Being a SAHM doesn't give her more opportunity to make friends. You can make friends too. You should go on guy trips too. Stop trying to get her to do kinky stuff in bed, that isn't helping your sex life, it's probably making her avoid you in bed. You should help out with the children at night. 

As for her she should spend more time with you and do the majority of the cleaning, cooking, laundry and taking care of the children as she doesn't work. If you need extra income then ask her about getting a part time job when your children are in school. If you feel she is going out too often with friends talk to her about it. Go on date nights with her. You have mismatched libidos, so compromise. 

Has she cheated on you? Is that why you don't want her going on trip and nights out with friends? All of the stuff you mentioned can be worked on without divorce. You need to talk to her about it tell her what you are not happy about, compromise and not just get resentful.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> How is "keep asking" different from pushing? By all means ask for what you want, but what would you hope to accomplish by continuing to ask if it's not pushing?


People change their minds. What is a no today can be a yes tomorrow. For me, it is all about the frequency. It's why I asked for clarification.



> I would like to get a cat, but my hb isn't crazy about the idea. If I keep asking doesn't it at some point become pushing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I said earlier he needs to define it. If you ask every single time you see a dog or a cat Yes. If every few months or years no. He went to counseling and I'm curious what is too much. 

I've seen way to many threads where spouses, male and female, say "I did x too much" and then we find out it was surprisingly lower than expected.


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## River555 (May 10, 2015)

So it seems I need to explain some more, as a lot of people started assuming a lot of things that just aren't the case for us. 

Five years ago, it was August and my youngest son was 7 to 8 months old. The Christmas before, my wife gave me an awesome gift . . . a homemade coupon book of sexual acts that she would be willing to do and she knew that I would like. To be specific, things like watching a porn together, letting me watch her masturbate, and wearing a ****ty outfit during sex. So by August, I had been able to cash in on exactly zero of those coupons, and figured I had waited long enough after the baby to try to cash in on one of them. I gave her two weeks to find an appropriate time (as low pressure as you can be, IMO), and it still didn't happen. I basically went ballistic about it, and we went to counseling two weeks later. The counseling was basically to talk me off the wall, which was pretty easy to do back then when we had three kids under five (I hit my wall back then because at that time, it was year five of young child enduced reduced sex life). And after months of counseling, we basically fired our counselor and I figured I would live with it. Then my wife did her 10 year reunion trip to Vegas, I had to take vacation time to watch the kids, to give her the break. I was angry during the trip, but kept it inside until she was back, then we went back for four counseling sessions which basically talked me off the wall (again easy to do with our kids' age). 

Sexual kinks . . . I am not ashamed of any of the kinks that I have and was under the impression that it was best to freely share what these are with your significant other, even if they are embarrassing and will never happen. I would probably be embarrassed for most people to know, but not my wife. To be specific, I would totally be interested in a very moderate amount of swinging (like once every five to ten years, to once in a lifetime), a very moderate amount of threesomes (same desired frequency), different forms of anal sex, and Female Domination type activities. I am under no delusions that the "extra people" versions of what I want are "too much to ask" and would never be a basis for divorce, and I would never withhold money or threaten divorce to get one of these things. This is what I mean by asking nicely. We do mix some anal activities in to our fun (not penis, but other appendages), and I have no issues with this. The female domination stuff would be mostly for my benefit, and this hasn't happened . . . this is our sexual issue at this time, my needs are totally on the back burner (basically I have to beg to receive oral sex while she gets as much as she would ever want from me (which is also one of my kinks), and most of my female domination fantasies go unrealized (I have a stressful job, and evidently lots of guys with stressful jobs are interested in this type of activity), plus, I am an even steven, what is good for the goose is good for the gander type of guy.

And I would totally be interested in more vanilla activities, like nice bras and panties, sexy outfits, etc. to getting oral sex on a more even basis. 

I write all of that (and went straight in to the counselor to say basically the same thing), and I think I am being completely 100% reasonable in what I want and how I want to get it, and what I am willing to accept. Yet, nothing doing, still.

As for friends and doing things with my wife . . . she does have a big group of friends that she met at a mommy and me club when our oldest was two or three. These ladies have stayed together for eight or nine years, and now do a lot of things together. I just have problems with the whole lot of them . . . I just find them to be incredibly spoiled. For instance, my wife turns forty next month . . . I am throwing a party, and ran my gift idea by these friends, and two of three friends hated the idea and thought that I should give her money so she can go on a trip "just for herself" or to let them have a girls week in Hawaii. This being just three weeks ago, you can guess how well I liked these suggestions. 

Basically, these friends (and my wife included) are just incredibly spoiled, behave unhealthily, and feel entitled regarding the free time since they are a hard working stay at home mom and just have to get away from kids and husband. 

Thanks for letting me vent. I plan to bring/send my posts to the counselor when I meet with him, which is why I am so thorough, so sorry if this is TMI.


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## River555 (May 10, 2015)

One other thing, a stay at home mom is a hard job. And it is an expensive job if you were to outsource . . . on the order of 1000 dollars per month per child, if I had to guess based on what co-workers and family have had to pay. So her being a stay at home mom is at least worth 3000 per month, or 36,000 per year for three kids. I have no illusions about the value that all stay at home moms bring to their families. And I would even prefer it if she could work and I could stay at home . . . but her degree wasn't as lucrative as mine, and it doesn't make economic sense for our family to do this. 

But in our situation, the thing that you stay at home moms don't realize is how tough it is to do both . . . hold a high stress full time job, and then manage the kids in the evening by yourself. This is something I do and have done repeatedly (including this week).


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## River555 (May 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> I don't think married people should go on vacations without each other. (I mean like the kind of vacation where you go out of town for more than a weekend).
> 
> You get married to share special times with your husband/wife. Hanging out with groups of friends is for singles.
> 
> So just based on that; I think there is something really wrong.



THANK YOU!




intheory said:


> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> You have to spill the beans here, OP. What sex acts are you asking for repeatedly; that your wife doesn't want? It's probably anal, right? Well, if something is painful, smelly and potentially physically damaging - at the very least causing bleeding and hemorrhoids; a lot of people won't want to do it.
> 
> If it's three(or more)somes; that's a slap in the face to marriage.
> ...


I have asked for many of those things. I am actually satisfied by the anal sex acts that we do to her (mostly fingers and rimming (don't knock it until you try it) during oral, which she seems to enjoy immensely. Of course I would like more, but I don't ask for this too much. 

As for 3somes and moresomes, while I can certainly see and appreciate your point, I have made great pains in the past to never use coersion and only ask "please." It was also important to me that it be done in an equal way . . . i would have been just as satisfied if she was the center of attention in a once in a lifetime event. And I would have found it acceptable or would have been appeased if it just turned into using toys to simulate extra body parts just to itch the fantasy but never break the marriage vows. For trying to follow those self imposed standards, I hope that I get at least a few points for following some sort of moral code (maybe a messed up moral code, but a moral code nonetheless). But what I can't (or couldn't) do is to pretend that I didn't have those desires when I did, and I can't keep those desires bottled up only to be unleashed while watching porn in secrecy, and I can't go back in time to discuss/ask about this issue less than I should have. I can (and am) only resolving myself to never bring it up again from here on out.

But strawberries and cream off the breasts would have been awesome. . . if I was getting spicy stuff like that on a regular basis in lieu of the things that I knew were too much to ask or expect, it would have made not getting them a little easier to bear. and I did provide a whole list of suggestions of similar ilk, but it is still like pulling teeth. 

The only thing I can think of is that she is catholic and was taught that sex was dirty, dirty dirty, and so of course it was only taboo for her when she was in college.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

River555 said:


> 10 years ago, it was at our house,


I didn't see how long you were married. This is close enough. Most women have fallen out of love with their husbands after 10 years. Nobody tells you that though. Sorry man. Just let go. Read up on the 180


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> He said "bi-weekly lady nights." For all we know, this could be Bible study or scrap-booking. He did not say partying.


You are correct. But if anyone wants to make a wager, I'm going with "partying". And I'm giving good odds.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> You are correct. But if anyone wants to make a wager, I'm going with "partying". And I'm giving good odds.


Agree. Bi-weekly ladies' nights hardly sounds like Bible study or knitting club to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I was shocked to see OP checked in around 2:30 am US EDT but decided not to answer/ clarify any questions posed.

Shocked, I tell you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

River,

I wish you luck. I expect that your time in counseling will be short. 





River555 said:


> So it seems I need to explain some more, as a lot of people started assuming a lot of things that just aren't the case for us.
> 
> Five years ago, it was August and my youngest son was 7 to 8 months old. The Christmas before, my wife gave me an awesome gift . . . a homemade coupon book of sexual acts that she would be willing to do and she knew that I would like. To be specific, things like watching a porn together, letting me watch her masturbate, and wearing a ****ty outfit during sex. So by August, I had been able to cash in on exactly zero of those coupons, and figured I had waited long enough after the baby to try to cash in on one of them. I gave her two weeks to find an appropriate time (as low pressure as you can be, IMO), and it still didn't happen. I basically went ballistic about it, and we went to counseling two weeks later. The counseling was basically to talk me off the wall, which was pretty easy to do back then when we had three kids under five (I hit my wall back then because at that time, it was year five of young child enduced reduced sex life). And after months of counseling, we basically fired our counselor and I figured I would live with it. Then my wife did her 10 year reunion trip to Vegas, I had to take vacation time to watch the kids, to give her the break. I was angry during the trip, but kept it inside until she was back, then we went back for four counseling sessions which basically talked me off the wall (again easy to do with our kids' age).
> 
> ...


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

First, taking care of ones own children is not baby-sitting, it is being a responsible adult.

Second, any W that is a SAHM really needs the grown-up time away from the kids.

Third, how many times does she have to say "no" to a specific sex act before getting the picture. I am pretty adventurous in the bedroom but I have limitations too, and the only thing begging will do is turn me off. Like a light.

And complaining about an event that is once every 5 years.....really????


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

River, if she is not willing to give you attention, and you are not willing to divorce her because you don't want to give up the family...

Then buy a Harley.


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

A SAHM with kids that are in school all day is a tough job? You're kidding right? What the h*ll do you people do for a job if that's tough.....play solitaire at work all day?


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Just cut back the overtime so there isn't enough money for all the time away from you. Tell her you want to work less and spend more quality time together.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> Second, any W that is a SAHM really needs the grown-up time away from the kids.


Did we read the same thread? :scratchhead:


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> Second, any W that is a SAHM really needs the grown-up time away from the kids.


:scratchhead:



River555 said:


> Two weekends away a year to the coast over the last four or five years,
> 
> biweekly lady nights.


W/o her husband and kids. 



LonelyinLove said:


> And complaining about an event that is once every 5 years.....really????


No, that is what set him off this time. He's griping about the lack of time he gets with his wife. It may be self inflicted with the sex issues, but he has a legit gripe.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So nobody besides MEM is going to address the fact that he keeps asking for threesomes and swinging? Nice. Good luck with that OP, not hard to imagine why you're not close to your wife and she isn't interested in spending time with you. 

That's it for me here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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