# Are some things better left unsaid?



## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Apologies for the length of this opening post, but I need to provide some background. I hope at least a few will plow through and respond.

We’ve had a couple of threads about men’s reactions to what their wives did or didn’t do in the past and whether they did or didn’t do the same things for their husbands. I have a related question from a different angle and I’d like to get the benefit of others’ views.

My wife and I are happily married and always have been, so I’ve been more an observer on these forums than someone seeking advice. And yet, when about three weeks ago I learned some surprising facts about her sexual history (details don’t matter here)—a discovery she doesn’t know about yet—I was hit with the retrospective jealousy bug. Bah! I did not expect to learn about her past and if I did, I did not expect to have such a reaction. I thought I was a better man than this. I’m disappointed in myself.

However, in apparent contrast to many others who go down this route, I have not and will not throw her history in her face or question her about it or use it as emotional blackmail or anything like that. I am fully aware that her past has nothing to do with us—I don’t need that standard lecture; you’d be preaching to the choir. I know this whole retrospective jealousy thing is entirely irrational and it’s MY problem, MY demon, MY responsibility to get over it without inflicting anything negative on her. And I’m working hard on doing exactly that. There’s no way in hell I’d allow my irrational reactions to come between us and ruin a wonderful relationship. Ain’t gonna happen.

However, my wife knows that something’s going on in my head. It’s not because I’ve pulled away from her. I’ve done everything I can to change nothing about how I relate to her. The problem is that the RJ mind games in my head have kept me awake at night and she’s picked up on my difficulty sleeping. The fight between my rational, reasonable mind and the OCD tendencies feeding on the RJ have also made me a bit more irritable during the day. She just knows me too well for me to be credible saying that nothing’s bothering me.

My plan was to work through this on my own and never mention it to her, partly to avoid having her think less of me for obsessing about something so unimportant (and the fact that my knowing violates her privacy) and partly to avoid seeming like I’m demanding details from her that I really, really don’t want. Also, I’m afraid that admitting that some part of my mind is bothered, no matter how irrational it is, will be taken as a negative judgment about her. But she’s a sweetheart and she wants to know what’s bothering me. She’s adamant that whatever it is, it’s better to get it in the open.

We had a discussion a while back, before I got this [email protected]#$*! RJ bug, about whether she would agree that some things are better left unsaid even between a loving couple. I used the example of my having an affair (which hasn’t happened—it’s a complete hypothetical). To my surprise, she said she would want to know about it. How could I disagree with her when she used such loving wisdom as this (it’s a direct quote):

“Guilt is a poison and it leaches out beyond the primary person feeling it to affect other relationships, health, etcetera. Forgiveness (of self and others) acknowledges that we're human, we make mistakes and yet can - in fact must - move on. Love is the key. I would hope that our love can help us get through anything.”

I confess I got all teary-eyed when I read that the first time.

So at last to my question: should I talk to her about what I’m going through and why I’m going through it? If I should talk to her about it, how much detail should I get into? What if she wants to know specifically what in her past has triggered my RJ? Do I give a candid answer? Or should I say, following my original inclination, that I’ve just got some things on my mind that I need to work through about work or our younger son (both true, but neither of which I’m obsessing about)? Of course, that wouldn't really be the truth and would create another issue of lack of honesty.

Be kind in any response.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Personally I do think things are sometimes better left unsaid. You have things you are working through ... that is true ... true without details. 

Some of these threads have made me think about how I would handle that if/when I divorce and reenter the dating scene. Any woman that I meet will have more "experiences" and a larger variety of them than me. That is not something I'm going to divulge to them. If they ask about specific things about my own past, I will tell them but I'll let them draw their own conclusions or comparisons. Concerning their past, if they offer then fine but I'm not going to inquire. I don't really need to know how big their junk was or if she experimented with girls in college. It isn't relevant. If they offer that information then it is very possible I will experience 'retrospective jealousy' but I think I will keep that to myself. What is she going to be able to do about it? Nothing. I'm all for open and honest communication but I do think there are some things that are better left unsaid for the health of the relationship.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> My plan was to work through this on my own and never mention it to her, partly to avoid having her think less of me for obsessing about something so unimportant (and the fact that my knowing violates her privacy) and partly to avoid seeming like I’m demanding details from her that I really, really don’t want.


I'll only comment on the one part: I don't ascribe to the 'privacy' from my wife. I don't believe in it. She gets to see ANYTHING I do if she wants. No passwords she doesn't know, no mail she can't see, no accounts she doesn't know about.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> Apologies for the length of this opening post, but I need to provide some background. I hope at least a few will plow through and respond.
> 
> We’ve had a couple of threads about men’s reactions to what their wives did or didn’t do in the past and whether they did or didn’t do the same things for their husbands. I have a related question from a different angle and I’d like to get the benefit of others’ views.
> 
> ...


So it IS interfering in your relationship already, and your wife has no idea. She loves you, and cares about you, and sees you in pain, wants to help you, and you are refusing to let her.

There is a huge difference between having the discussion about the irrationality of RJ and her past, and throwing it in her face, using it as emotional blackmail. I know in dealing with it myself, my STBW and I have had the conversations, and I have never once made her feel degraded, belittled, dirty or anything of the sort because her past does not change how I feel about her one bit.

This is one of those things though that I think it is absolutely crucial to have your partners help in dealing with because it directly involves them. I think that not involving them is very unfair to them. Depending on the specifics, there could be triggers crop up in the least expected ways, and if they are aware, they will know why you are withdrawing, they will also be able to help avoid certain subject, situations, things like that.

If you bury it, it will not go away. You won't be able to process through it by yourself. The triggers will keep happening and she will be blissfully unaware, thinking nothing is wrong. It will continue to eat away at you, and you will only be able to hold off the resentment for so long.

The key is communication...RESPECTFUL communication with her. Own your part in this, reassure her that you are NOT holding it against her, that you know it is irrational, that it does not change the way you feel about her, that you don't think any less of her, and for god's sake DO NOT EVER throw it back in her face!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I used the example of my having an affair (which hasn’t happened—it’s a complete hypothetical). To my surprise, she said she would want to know about it."

Why on earth would it surprise you that she said she would want to know about it?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

I fail to see how your feelings are irrational.

I think it's just something you tell yourself to not face your issues 1-1. Try not to avoid it, instead face it, go through it, etc. Talk to your wife about it, as well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I say come clean with her. Let it all out. She sounds strong enough to handle it.

Transparency builds trust.

We all have a past (okay, at least most of us). Live in the present.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

You'll need to tell her in general terms that you're experiencing RJ about her previous relationships. I don't know how you get around specifics, maybe just tell her you don't want to talk about specific things just broad stroke type things. But she knows something is wrong, and she may assume the worst if you don't talk to her about it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think RJ is totally irrational. Having said that, feelings are what they are, rational or not. It's irrational to be terrified of driving across a bridge, yet the terror is very real. 

It's bothering you to an extent that she has noticed. She has already stated to you what her views are and that's what I think you should respect.

Based on that, I think you should tell her, and answer all her questions honestly in terms of what you know and how you came to know it.

Since you two have such a solid relationship, my bet is that once you two have discussed and processed, the RJ will diminish and disappear shortly.


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## Rev. Clonn (Nov 11, 2013)

If you are avoiding talking about your emotional problem because you violated your wife's privacy in order to find out about it, then you are being selfish. 
You are trying to avoid getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar, but want to complain that somebody else ate cookies. Your cookies, your favorite cookies, before she ever baked them for you.
Think that through.
Then remember you have to have solid working two way communication to have a good relationship.
If you still don't know what you have to do, then I will spell it out. Get the house cleaned up after dinner, no tv or kids or phone or other distractions. 
Sit down and talk. 
Admit your transgressions and ask for forgiveness. 
Then talk about how what you learned makes you feel, let her know what you need to know to make you feel better. 
Then forgive her, and yourself.
This is the only way you can move on and have a happy healthy relationship.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> How did you find out about these details?


Inmaterial if it didn't violate already established standards of transparency in the relationship.

My STBW have open access, phones, passwords, you name it, so for us, it wouldn't matter the source. I know different couples are different, but for me, there is nothing in my past that I would not openly and honestly share with my STBW if I was asked. I would not marry someone that I did not have that level of trust in. That being said, I do not go about sharing details, but would not feel any right to get angry with her if she found something out that I had not brought up myself.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Your wife knows something is up. She will know something is up until you share the truth with her. Many women are so incredibly intuitive about our spouses and whether they are hiding something. She is going to wonder about it, she is going to fret about it, maybe even obsess over it. Thats an awful state to be in. I speak from sad sad experience on this.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes, you have to tell her what's on your mind, and you have to answer her questions, and you have to be honest about all of it. Tell her what you're upset about, tell her how you discovered this information about her past, tell her how you feel honestly and openly.

She knows something is up, and she is going to imagine a lot of things that might be on your mind and they'll probably be far worse than the truth - you're having an affair, you want to leave her, you have cancer, you are about to be arrested, you spent all the money on an alpaca farm... 

She has NO idea what's on your mind, but she knows something is and you can't sweep this under the rug.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Your attitude is different than the previous. Talking about your jealousy (which is pretty normal even if it is irrational) is very different than expecting her to repeat anything she has done in the past. Regardless if it is irrational or not you can't help those feelings and you should be able to talk about it without pressuring her.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> However, my wife knows that something’s going on in my head. It’s not because I’ve pulled away from her. I’ve done everything I can to change nothing about how I relate to her. The problem is that the RJ mind games in my head have kept me awake at night and she’s picked up on my difficulty sleeping. The fight between my rational, reasonable mind and the OCD tendencies feeding on the RJ have also made me a bit more irritable during the day. She just knows me too well for me to be credible saying that nothing’s bothering me.


I was always bothered by this sort of behavior from my husband. It was many, many years into our relationship before I learned that he struggles with processing things about my past ("retroactive jealously", I suppose, though I only learned that term since joining TAM). He seems to have a similar take on it as you: it's HIS issue to deal with. He doesn't like it about himself, but nor is it within his power to stop the wheel once it starts turning. Thing is, I ALWAYS knew something was bothering him. I hated that he denied it. 



jaharthur said:


> My plan was to work through this on my own and never mention it to her, partly to avoid having her think less of me for obsessing about something so unimportant (and the fact that my knowing violates her privacy) and partly to avoid seeming like I’m demanding details from her that I really, really don’t want. Also, I’m afraid that admitting that some part of my mind is bothered, no matter how irrational it is, will be taken as a negative judgment about her. But she’s a sweetheart and she wants to know what’s bothering me. She’s adamant that whatever it is, it’s better to get it in the open.


Of course you should tell her. I was relieved to learn what it was that periodically bothered my husband. I used to be too cavalier in talking about my past because I didn't understand how it affected him. In fact, I would resent the fact that I couldn't talk about my past with him, share it with him without him getting "mad." (I'm not talking about sexual details here--just old romances, friendships he disapproved of, and unwise things I did in my youth.) I didn't understand RJ as a valid emotion; I thought he was being judgmental, and it made me feel bad. 

Just within the last year, he explained it to me. I mean REALLY explained it to me. I think he never wanted to do that before because he's not proud of it, he hates that he can't control it. It meant the WORLD to me that he shared his struggle with me. It's brought us closer. We've had several really great discussions about it since then, most of them brought up by me based on threads here on TAM. 

Like you, he chooses to work through it on he own when it hits--and it still does, even though I'm more careful now. I don't need to know the details of what has triggered it, but if he tells me he's "working through" something, I try to give him space. And I don't feel shut out and angry like I used to. 

I don't know how your wife regards privacy in marriage, but I have a need for some. If you feel you have somehow violated her privacy in obtaining this information, you might have some extra work to do. Even if you did nothing wrong, she might need some time to absorb the fact that you know this thing about her that she had thought was hers alone. 

At the end of the day, I think sharing this with your wife will strengthen the marriage you treasure. You seem to have much respect for and trust in your wife--I think she'll appreciate how this is a real struggle for you, even if she cannot fully understand it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Can we have some more info on how you found this info, and in general what it is that you found out?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I was always bothered by this sort of behavior from my husband. It was many, many years into our relationship before I learned that he struggles with processing things about my past ("retroactive jealously", I suppose, though I only learned that term since joining TAM). He seems to have a similar take on it as you: it's HIS issue to deal with. He doesn't like it about himself, but nor is it within his power to stop the wheel once it starts turning. Thing is, I ALWAYS knew something was bothering him. I hated that he denied it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This sounds very much like my STBW. We are living in the same area she has spent her whole lfe in, with many life long friends around.

I too tried to bury the feelings for a while because I KNEW they did not affect how I saw or felt about her. I never judged her, thought less of her, but it got to the point where she knew something was wrong. I took the same attitude as when we first started getting to know eachother and dating...I was straight forward about it because if we can't talk about difficult things in an adult maner, then we have no business being together.

She does have a fairly broad past, and it does come up. Mainly in idle conversations with her friends where they bring something up. She has gotten very good at redirecting things. We have talked about that part of it too. I wanted to make sure she wasn't feeling like she had to walk on egg shells, or feeling like I was shutting her down in things she wanted to talk about. She does not feel that way. When those kind of conversations come up, she can take them or leave them. Has no problems talking about the past with friends, but no real desire to either.

She does have her moments though. We were driving through one of the small towns she lived in when se was younger. Her 20 year old son was in the car with us, and she started laughing and turned to him and asked if he wanted to see the house she lost her virginity in...she got the desired reaction from him...one of complete horror...me...triggered.

The thing is, this is something that can be worked on and overcome, but it absolutely takes BOTH partners being aware and working together.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I hope you have told her already.

I vote with the others that she can sense something is going on and tell her the truth about it. Tell her how you found out about it and your reaction. You could print off your thread and hand it to her. 

If you knew something was bothering her, you would want to know. The mind games can make things be much worse than what is really going on. At least in this situation, so tell her today.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

you sound weak. and very beta.

not very sexy!

get over what ever you found out about or take a strong stand about it.
theres no middle ground.

as far as her knowing something is up and questioning you about whats the matter. In my opinion you have no obligation to tell her. Unless she lied about it and now its coming out. so you have something thats bothering you and your handling it your own way. she can ask is there something I can help you with but if you prefer to deal with it on your own then thats your decision.and she should respect that.

I see a huge double standard with this SOME women want to know every little detail of whats going on but reserve the right to keep their mouths shut on issues they don't want you to know about.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I didn't understand RJ as a valid emotion; I thought he was being judgmental, and it made me feel bad.
> 
> Just within the last year, he explained it to me. I mean REALLY explained it to me. I think he never wanted to do that before because he's not proud of it, he hates that he can't control it.


I think this sums up quite nicely why the OP does not want to share his feelings. Theoretically, women want a man who can share their feelings. Practically, this particular feeling demonstrates that this is in fact not true for many woman. An emotion of a man that is causes a woman to feel bad is more typically met with defensiveness and dismissiveness than sympathy or understanding.

So with that in mind, jahathur, how will your wife take this? If it will create a healthy discussion, then definitely tell her. But if she will go nuclear about this (or completely shut down), then telling her that you have some personal emotions that you need to work through is fine (I would not mislead her with the other stuff). That may lead to a useful discussion on sharing these things.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this sums up quite nicely why the OP does not want to share his feelings. Theoretically, women want a man who can share their feelings. Practically, this particular feeling demonstrates that this is in fact not true for many woman. An emotion of a man that is causes a woman to feel bad is more typically met with defensiveness and dismissiveness than sympathy or understanding.
> 
> So with that in mind, jahathur, *how will your wife take this?* If it will create a healthy discussion, then definitely tell her. But if she will go nuclear about this (or completely shut down), then telling her that you have some personal emotions that you need to work through is fine (I would not mislead her with the other stuff). That may lead to a useful discussion on sharing these things.


This in large part depends on how the discussion is framed.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> This in large part depends on how the discussion is framed.


Sometimes, but not always. Some people explode first and ask questions later. Unfortunately, that explosion can often prevent a healthy discussion from ever occurring.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Thanks for the almost uniformly productive and nonjudgmental comments--except for the post calling me weak, beta, and unsexy. I assure you my wife would disagree with that one. 

I intentionally omitted certain details, such as how I found out and what I found out, because I think they are irrelevant to my main question--whether I should discuss the topic with her and at what level of detail.

She hasn't lied to me about anything, so that issue, prominent in other threads of this kind, is simply not present.

One post asked why I assumed she would not want to know about an affair. I've always thought that--assuming the straying spouse terminated the affair and considered it a mistake--confessing it would be selfish in a way, seeking one's own relief by imposing guilt and feelings of betrayal on the innocent partner. But her comment about guilt leaching outside of the person feeling it put a new light on the subject for me.

She will not go nuclear or shut down. In fact, she may welcome the discussion. I say this in part because years ago she started down the path of disclosing her past on her own--I can't remember what triggered it, I certainly didn't ask--and ironically, I immediately said "Stop! I don't want or need to hear this. It's irrelevant to us." 

And so it is. We'll probably have the discussion this coming Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if her reaction is something like, "is that all? I thought maybe you had murdered somebody."


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> And so it is. We'll probably have the discussion this coming Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if her reaction is something like, "is that all? I thought maybe you had murdered somebody."


I hope that you can have a good discussion about it. I also hope that she is not dismissive of your issue either.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

First, do no harm! That being said; it may be better unsaid. It depends on to many variables. I would consider her personality before moving forward. First, do no harm!


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Wait! So she was going to tell you years ago and you stopped her and now you found out an are upset! MAN UP! It is OK to upset/jealous to a point. Anything over that and maybe you need counseling or someone to talk with. Of course, here might help also.

I would tell her you found out and how you feel. It seems her not knowing what the problem is and distancing from her is going to cause more problems in the long run. She will loose trust with you for not opening up and if she finds out later you were hiding your feelings it will just be worse.

Maybe His Needs Her Needs would help. There is a section just on Honesty/Trust.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

jaharthur said:


> Thanks for the almost uniformly productive and nonjudgmental comments--except for the post calling me weak, beta, and unsexy. I assure you my wife would disagree with that one.
> 
> I intentionally omitted certain details, such as how I found out and what I found out, because I think they are irrelevant to my main question--whether I should discuss the topic with her and at what level of detail.
> 
> ...


I said you sounded weak/beta,unsexy.

a strong/alpha would be like whatever. I'm the man and I'm going to bang your sexy a$$!

I wouldn't say sh*t if I was ok with it. even if I wasn't what are going to achieve by talking about it?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this sums up quite nicely why the OP does not want to share his feelings. Theoretically, women want a man who can share their feelings. Practically, this particular feeling demonstrates that this is in fact not true for many woman. An emotion of a man that is causes a woman to feel bad is more typically met with defensiveness and dismissiveness than sympathy or
> understanding.


I think, rather then demonstrating that many women do not want to know about this emotion, the woman's feeling of being judged comes from incomplete communication about the RJ emotion. It is a complex emotion that, if it is going to be discussed at all, needs more attention than the conveying of most other emotions. This is because it's not an emotion that most women deal with personally. It needs to be introduced. Its effects need to be explained. _Women have to come to realize that it's not an emotion they will naturally empathize with; rather, they have to be willing to accept that it is very real and has potentially very troubling effects on men. _ 

Please don't misunderstand me: I am not blaming the man for the communication failure. This issue fascinates me because it surfaced and resurfaced in my marriage for years before my husband and I succeeded in communicating about it effectively. Before I understood it, I found it frustrating that my husband would sometimes become emotionally distant and irritable when my past would come up. Sometimes I'd press him for an explanation, sometimes not. The few times that he would give me an explanation, it would be along the lines of, "I don't like what you did," or "It bothers me that you did x,y, z." I took that as a judgment. He was treating me poorly for things I did before I ever met him--before I was even a mature adult. I did stupid things and made mistakes-- nothing worse than any other teenager or college student, just run of the mill stunts and experimental behavior. I found it immature and mean that he was punishing me for these things. It made me inclined to withhold things from him. It damaged our intimacy.

Had I understood the nature of his "being bothered" better, I wouldn't have felt that his behavior was such an indictment of who I am. It wasn't so much the things that I did 20 years ago that bothered him, it was what those things were doing in his head today that bothered him. It was his inability to stop thinking about those things that was making him withdrawn and irritable. It was his efforts to stop the thoughts of those past events from preoccupying him that made him feel emotionally distant. He wasn't mad at me or judging me for doing those things; he was frustrated with himself that they were mattering so much to him now. He wanted to get back to normal with his thoughts and emotions, but his RJ was in the way. 

It was HUGE when I finally got the whole story. It was after we began really working on our marriage and communication earlier this year that he spent more time explaining to me about the difficulty he has with some thoughts about my past, or even about things I say in passing conversations today. It helped that he opened up about how much he hates when this happens to him, hates that he cannot control it. He owned it. He never apologized for it; and I wouldn't expect him to. He seemed surprised that I was feeling judged by his behavior. I think he assumed that I just "got it." But I have no emotion of my own that is comparable to RJ. Quite the opposite, in fact--I beg him to tell me about his sexual history--the details turn me on. So, while he assumed that the short-hand explanations of "I don't like what you did," were enough to convey to me that he was suffering from these replaying thoughts, I didn't have any basis for understanding what he was trying to convey. So I ended up feeling judged--he told me he didn't like something that I did and acted withdrawn and irritable. What else was I supposed to assume? I kept thinking, "Does he expect me to apologize to him for things I did BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HE EXISTED?"

If he had gone just a few steps further . . . 
If I had said, "now wait a minute . . . " 

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. 



Tall Average Guy said:


> So with that in mind, jahathur, how will your wife take this? If it will create a healthy discussion, then definitely tell her. But if she will go nuclear about this (or completely shut down), then telling her that you have some personal emotions that you need to work through is fine (I would not mislead her with the other stuff). That may lead to a useful discussion on sharing these things.


I cannot imagine that she will go nuclear with this, jahathur--not from how you have described her and your marriage. Go really, really, slowly. Print out some stuff about retroactive jealousy (there are web sites that discuss it and offer support--I sought them out to help me understand it better). Print out some threads from TAM that demonstrate the gulf between men and women in communicating about it. Tell her absolutely everything you can about how you feel. Answer her questions honestly. In some ways, she has to learn to understand something she will never feel. It's almost like trying to describe a color to someone who will never be able to see that color. She _can_ come to recognize what triggers RJ in you, and how best to interact with you when you are suffering from it. 

One more thing: since my husband and I have succeeded in communicating about RJ, his bouts are much less frequent, and resolve much more quickly when they do occur. I understand he's struggling, and he doesn't have to deal with me feeling hurt on top of his suffering. It's nobody's fault. It is what it is, and there is no "curing" it. But by not piling hurt feelings and insecurities on top of an already difficult emotion, it's easier to move on quickly and cleanly and get back to the business of lovin'. 

I hope you'll let us know how your talk with your wife goes. I think it's going to benefit you both to get this out in the open.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> We'll probably have the discussion this coming Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if her reaction is something like, "is that all? I thought maybe you had murdered somebody."


I bet you are right. How about posting again once you've had the talk and let us know how it went AND how you felt in terms of RJ afterward?


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## MicroStorm (Aug 10, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I said you sounded weak/beta,unsexy.
> 
> a strong/alpha would be like whatever. I'm the man and I'm going to bang your sexy a$$!
> 
> *I wouldn't say sh*t if I was ok with it. even if I wasn't what are going to achieve by talking about it?*


To the OP... Yes, indeed I would say nothing. As CM mentioned, what are you going to achieve by bringing this up? You'll look weak and envious, and there is no reason whatsoever to give your wife that kind of leverage on you. Your profile says you've been in your current relationship for 30-40 years, which implies you're most likely into your 50s. The time to bring this up passed about... 30-40 year ago. You don't have to let it go, per se, but there's no logical reason at all to bring this up at this point. Fight your internal demons. We all have them.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I think, rather then demonstrating that many women do not want to know about this emotion, the woman's feeling of being judged comes from incomplete communication about the feeling. It is a complex emotion that, if it is going to be discussed at all, needs more attention than the conveying of most other emotions. This is because it's not an emotion that most women deal with personally. It needs to be introduced. Its effects need to be explained. _Women have to come to realize that it's not an emotion they will naturally empathize with; rather, they have to be willing to accept that it is very real and has potentially very troubling affects on men. _
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me: I am not blaming the man for the communication failure. This issue fascinates me because it surfaced and resurfaced in my marriage for years before my husband and I succeeded in communicating about it effectively. Before I understood it, I found it frustrating that my husband would sometimes become emotionally distant and irritable when my past would come up. Sometimes I'd press him for an explanation, sometimes not. The few times that he would give me an explanation, it would be along the lines of, "I don't like what you did," or "It bothers me that you did x,y, z." I took that as a judgment. He was treating me poorly for things I did before I ever met him--before I was even a mature adult. I did stupid things and made mistakes-- nothing worse than any other teenager or college student, just run of the mill stunts and experimental behavior. I found it immature and mean that he was punishing me for these things. It made me inclined to withhold things from him. It damaged our intimacy.
> 
> ...


If I could like this a million tikmes I would. So many of the things you explained are things I have explained also, but it is so good hearing this from a woman's point of view.


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## MicroStorm (Aug 10, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> It was HUGE when I finally got the whole story. It was after we began really working on our marriage and communication earlier this year that he spent more time explaining to me about the difficulty he has with some thoughts about my past, or even about things I say in passing conversations today. It helped that he opened up about how much he hates when this happens to him, hates that he cannot control it. He owned it. He never apologized for it; and I wouldn't expect him to. He seemed surprised that I was feeling judged by his behavior. I think he assumed that I just "got it." But I have no emotion of my own that is comparable to RJ. Quite the opposite, in fact--I beg him to tell me about his sexual history--the details turn me on. So, while he assumed that the short-hand explanations of "I don't like what you did," were enough to convey to me that he was suffering from these replaying thoughts, I didn't have any basis for understanding what he was trying to convey. So I ended up feeling judged--he told me he didn't like something that I did and acted withdrawn and irritable. What else was I supposed to assume? I kept thinking, "Does he expect me to apologize to him for things I did BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HE EXISTED?"


Off topic, perhaps, but do you not find it mildly disturbing that you blame your husband for his so-called RJ when you spent 10 *YEARS* (by your own admission) keeping him in a sexless marriage, while having a rather colorful and sexful history with everyone else? Perhaps your husband's so-called RJ behavior is not RJ at all, but instead a response to years of sexual neglect and abuse.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

MicroStorm said:


> Off topic, perhaps, but do you not find it mildly disturbing that you blame your husband for his so-called RJ when you spent 10 *YEARS* (by your own admission) keeping him in a sexless marriage, while having a rather colorful and sexful history with everyone else? Perhaps your husband's so-called RJ behavior is not RJ at all, but instead a response to years of sexual neglect and abuse.


Either you have me mixed up with someone else, or you haven't read through enough of my old posts to really understand what was going on for those ten years. 

Who said anything about me having a colorful sexual history with "everyone else?" This is perhaps where you have me mixed up with someone else? His episode of RJ (for lack of a better term) often had nothing to do with my sexual past. 

And where do I lay blame on my husband for RJ? Didn't I just say in this very thread that it's no one's fault, it just is? If you could quote me, I'd like to clear up any misunderstanding.

As I try to make clear, this is an issue in which both men and women end up feeling hurt and misunderstood. Learning to communicate, rather than lash out or clam up, when one feels hurt is a skill that I've learned, and one that I highly recommend.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jaharthur said:


> We had a discussion a while back, before I got this [email protected]#$*! RJ bug, about whether she would agree that some things are better left unsaid even between a loving couple. I used the example of my having an affair (which hasn’t happened—it’s a complete hypothetical). To my surprise, *she said she would want to know about it. * How could I disagree with her when she used such loving wisdom as this (it’s a direct quote):
> 
> *“Guilt is a poison and it leaches out beyond the primary person feeling it to affect other relationships, health, etcetera. Forgiveness (of self and others) acknowledges that we're human, we make mistakes and yet can - in fact must - move on. Love is the key. I would hope that our love can help us get through anything.”*
> 
> I confess I got all teary-eyed when I read that the first time.


 When you look at this ...given this exchange before your discovery....you have already been given the answer....written to you *in her words*....

The path is laid out before you.... *SHE WOULD WANT TO KNOW*...that LOVE is the key, that you & she can get through ANYTHING....she has already shown compassion / acknowledgement that she understands you /she is just HUMAN, people make mistakes...we struggle, but the most important thing is understanding.... 

This woman is open to your struggle...it was YOU who stopped her in the past from sharing more.. she is there for you....that is what I get from your story .....

As a wife who FEELS the same as the way you describe yours..... I would be very upset if mine didn't come to me ...in his struggle....no matter what it was.....as I feel 2 wading through the waters together hand in hand is always better than one...what affects him, affects me... and vice versa....

Daring to be *vulnerable *to each other in our lowest of times, sharing ourselves....you'd be surprised...the greater depths of connection that can be born from this place....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Great post, SA. OP, please listen.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> Either you have me mixed up with someone else, or you haven't read through enough of my old posts to really understand what was going on for those ten years.
> 
> Who said anything about me having a colorful sexual history with "everyone else?" This is perhaps where you have me mixed up with someone else? *His episode of RJ (for lack of a better term) often had nothing to do with my sexual past*.
> 
> ...


This right here is something people with no experience often don't understand either. Yes, RJ is often expressed about sexual acts in particular, but the underlying feelings don't stem from anything sexual at all.

I am not sure of any specifics in your case GettingIt, but a more recent example for myself that may make sense to you...

I am the one who has physically transplanted into my STBW's life. I moved into the house she has owned for over the past decade. She lived there with her ex husband, and then had a live in boyfriend between her ex and myself.

As we were decorating and setting up for Christmas it hit me pretty hard. These were her traditions that had been built around a man, woman, and children. I know she was only trying to be helpful, but as I was hanging up the outside lights in the way she had always wanted them done, she was giving me tips that she had picked up on from her exes, who had done the same thing. Hanging the stockings...there were enough of them for all of us, and as there were no names on them, everybody kind of picked the one they wanted, and being the creatures of habit, she and the kids picked the same ones they always did, leaving me with the one her exes used.

When she and I talked about how I was feeling, I came up with an analogy that worked. It was like a play with actors. The traditions are the script. It is the same play every year with the role of the man, woman, and children, originally written for specific actors in mind, and for years, it was the same actors. Now though, the role of the kids are the same, the role of the woman is the same, but I found myself playing the part of the man with a script that was written for someone else.

Nothing sexual at all, but the same crushing feelings none the less.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

MicroStorm said:


> To the OP... Yes, indeed I would say nothing. As CM mentioned, what are you going to achieve by bringing this up? You'll look weak and envious, and there is no reason whatsoever to give your wife that kind of leverage on you. Your profile says you've been in your current relationship for 30-40 years, which implies you're most likely into your 50s. The time to bring this up passed about... 30-40 year ago. You don't have to let it go, per se, but there's no logical reason at all to bring this up at this point. Fight your internal demons. We all have them.


Disagree. If OP thinks she would use something like this as beverage against him later, then the relationship itself is weak. Intimacy means being comfortable being vulnerable. I.e. showing weakness ans expecting acceptance.


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## MicroStorm (Aug 10, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Disagree. If OP thinks she would use something like this as beverage against him later, then the relationship itself is weak. Intimacy means being comfortable being vulnerable. I.e. showing weakness ans expecting acceptance.


Perhaps. But then again, I can't think of one time in my life where I've gotten myself in trouble by keeping my mouth shut. Not a once...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> This right here is something people with no experience often don't understand either. Yes, RJ is often expressed about sexual acts in particular, but the underlying feelings don't stem from anything sexual at all.
> 
> I am not sure of any specifics in your case GettingIt, but a more recent example for myself that may make sense to you...
> 
> ...


Your the new main man in her life, somethings in her house are done a certain way. Let her feel comfortable. Do some new things with her to make it yours. She should never near you complain about this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MicroStorm said:


> Perhaps. But then again, I can't think of one time in my life where I've gotten myself in trouble by keeping my mouth shut. Not a once...


My husband lands in the dog house on a regular basis for keeping his mouth shut. I demand intimacy. But, YMMV...


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> When you look at this ...given this exchange before your discovery....you have already been given the answer....written to you *in her words*....
> 
> The path is laid out before you.... *SHE WOULD WANT TO KNOW*...that LOVE is the key, that you & she can get through ANYTHING....she has already shown compassion / acknowledgement that she understands you /she is just HUMAN, people make mistakes...we struggle, but the most important thing is understanding....
> 
> ...


Awesome post, SA. Thank you for making me focus on what's important--and right in front of my nose.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sam...You and your stbx should come up with a few guidelines so you don't have to keep stepping on RJ bombs. Some of that could be avoided.

But also...I am in a similar situation because my H and I live in "my" house, which I have lived in for 20 years, I own, and I raised my kids here, and yes, exes lived here with me. There have been parts of this that were tough for him ... BUT ... for several years before he moved in with me, he had his own house, one which he had live in girlfriends in. And his bed, the same one he had other girlfriends in. So I would stay with him at his house, and hear the ghosts of his past in my head...and he would be at my house, hearing the ghosts of my past in his head.

At this point, we sleep in his old bed which he has had sex with other women in before me, which is in the bedroom in my house that I used to share with my first husband.

Now...none of this is pleasant, IF and when we let those ghosts take hold in our minds. But we have simply learned how to not keep dwelling there.

We have more time into this than you do, but I am trying to give you hope here: it does get better with time, with more and more intimacy, with honesty and with new experiences being built upon together.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> sam...You and your stbx should come up with a few guidelines so you don't have to keep stepping on RJ bombs. Some of that could be avoided.
> 
> But also...I am in a similar situation because my H and I live in "my" house, which I have lived in for 20 years, I own, and I raised my kids here, and yes, exes lived here with me. There have been parts of this that were tough for him ... BUT ... for several years before he moved in with me, he had his own house, one which he had live in girlfriends in. And his bed, the same one he had other girlfriends in. So I would stay with him at his house, and hear the ghosts of his past in my head...and he would be at my house, hearing the ghosts of my past in his head.
> 
> ...


Things have been getting better in this regard, but holidays are particularly filled with triggers. I am already in a weakened emotional state because my kids are keeping their traditions with their mother, and I'm not able to spend as much time with them as I'd like. Long story, but my ex is NPD and has physical custody. It's still a mess. Anyway, I digress...

When my ex and I separated, I moved into a friends house and lived there for about eight months while they were away. She kept the marital bed, and so with my STBW, there really are no ghosts from my past.

As far as minimizing the triggers, she really works on that, but also time has been helping too, but the kids on the other hand reminiscing about christmas' past and such. It really doesn't upset me per se, but it sure doesn't fill me with the warm and fuzzies though either if that makes sense.

One big possible blow up was avoided on christmas though, and honestly I am not sure how I would have handled it. The oldest son was going with his dad, my STBW's ex to visit some other family and we were getting ready to open presents, and the dad showed up early. The daughter said we couldn't leave him sitting outside, and to invite him in to be with us. The son just said they had to get going because it was a long trip, and went, so situation averted, but that could have gotten very awkward.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Your the new main man in her life, somethings in her house are done a certain way. Let her feel comfortable. Do some new things with her to make it yours. She should never near you complain about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't complain, but I also don't bottle things up either. We do communicate on this as it really is the only way to work through it. I don't pick on specifics because I don't want to sound like a whiny little nitpicking b1tch, but she is aware of the broader implications of things here, so she knows better than to say things like "John used to do it this way", or "Before he left, Bill always took us to this place."


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I am in a similar situation because my H and I live in "my" house, which I have lived in for 20 years, I own, and I raised my kids here, and yes, exes lived here with me.
> 
> At this point, we sleep in his old bed which he has had sex with other women in before me, which is in the bedroom in my house that I used to share with my first husband.
> 
> Now...none of this is pleasant, IF and when we let those ghosts take hold in our minds. But we have simply learned how to not keep dwelling there.


When my mom remarried she moved into his house. She immediately replaced the shower curtain in the master bath in order to purge the ghost of his previous wife.

It was sort of like the dog peeing on the fencepost to claim the territory. She had to do something to make the place hers.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> Apologies for the length of this opening post, but I need to provide some background. I hope at least a few will plow through and respond.
> 
> We’ve had a couple of threads about men’s reactions to what their wives did or didn’t do in the past and whether they did or didn’t do the same things for their husbands. I have a related question from a different angle and I’d like to get the benefit of others’ views.
> 
> ...


Wow. I haven't read beyond your initial post yet. It's a great post. It encompasses my thoughts on this whole damned RJ thing that I've been feeling for the past year, right down to knowing, after so many years, this is my issue not hers. It sounds as thought you have a spectacularly open (not in that sense) and honest marriage. I think if you discussed it in a mature, non-accusing way, you would probably find the dialogue to be quite helpful. She sounds as though she would be extremely understanding. I, myself, have not brought it up yet or had any discussions about my issue. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on my very first posting here (I'd repost it but don't know how), if you have a minute. It sounds like we're dealing with exactly the same thing, right down to how we are trying to deal with it. 

I am curious to read the rest of the responses on this thread. Good luck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I think, rather then demonstrating that many women do not want to know about this emotion, the woman's feeling of being judged comes from incomplete communication about the RJ emotion. It is a complex emotion that, if it is going to be discussed at all, needs more attention than the conveying of most other emotions. This is because it's not an emotion that most women deal with personally. It needs to be introduced. Its effects need to be explained. _Women have to come to realize that it's not an emotion they will naturally empathize with; rather, they have to be willing to accept that it is very real and has potentially very troubling effects on men. _


The point I was trying to make was not as much about understanding and empathizing with an emotion as accepting that their man is feeling it without de-legitimizing it. It is not about understanding it or empathizing with it. It is about the partner accepting that this is a valid feeling, even if it is irrational. 

Many men are counseled (rightfully so) on these boards to accept their woman's feelings as legitimate, even if they don't understand them. And many women discuss how they want their man to share his feelings. Yet all to often then don't (or can't) extend the same acceptance that they demand. These discussion on RJ are a good example of that in action.

Having said that, your post is a great example of working to understand your husband (and he you), as well as a great (and unfortunate) example of communication issues in a marriage. I am glad you figured things out.


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