# Abusive husband. Feel so alone and don't know what to do



## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

My husband and I have been married almost 5 years, most of them bad. He has been physically violent over the past 3 up until 6 months ago when I moved back in with family. My family doesnt know about the abuse. They think he is out of state caring for a family member who is terminally ill.


Over the course of our relationship, I have been slapped, kicked, punched (never in the face, if that matters) choked, and threatened with a knife. It has never gotten so bad where I needed to be hospitalized or anything, but I have had a fat lip, 2 black eyes, and a grapefruit sized (measured with an actual grapefruit so not exaggerating) bruise on my arm among other injuries. Hence why I moved out.

We have spent time together since I left without problem. But I am still not convinced he won't do it again. I am not convinced that even if I could see the future and knew he would never do it again that I would want to stay.

These incidents happened during verbal fights, which I was a participant in. It was not like I was just sitting there and he hit me for no reason. I can admit I can nag and not be pleasant to be around when I'm in a bad mood. I admit I even picked some of the fights, which was wrong. However, I never attacked him physically so it was never self defense on his part.

I am having a hard time getting over it and continuing the marriage, especially when he says things like "we need to learn to communicate better so we (yes we, even though I was never physical with him) dont kill each other" and "you arent an innocent victim in this" and "if you were a man, you probably would have attacked me first." 

I asked him to go to therapy. He went for 3 sessions and stopped. His excuse was money. He said his therapist said "you shouldnt hit her, but it really sounds like she provokes you." So now he repeats that -- I provoked him. He has even suggested any other man would do the same. Even the therapist "saw through me." I never even met her.

The thing is, I have asked him to leave if he got very angry and he never took that advice. I tried to walk away during fights and he would block my way. So of course the fights never diffused.

I have wanted to go to therapy for a long time for this and other issues in my past. My husband has been very unsupportive. I am extremely depressed, which he blames on me being a negative person. He has told me that he would do everything he can to prevent me from going because he thinks I will make up lies about him to my therapist and that I just want someone to feel sorry for me and he wont spend money on a "whine session." I told him he could come to tell his side of the story and ensure he wasnt being lied about but that didnt change his views.

He says I need to learn to fix my own issues. And him and I also need to fix our issues on our own without therapy.

He also says he wont let me out of the marriage until we fix it because he wont let me run away from my problems anymore. After we fix the marriage we can decide if we want to be in it, according to him.


I turned 27 last weekend. I realized on my birthday that my 20s are almost over and I have spent the majority of them unhappy.

I have devised a plan of going to the therapist behind his back. But I hate lying in relationships and I would feel like such a hypocrite. Plus I dont know how he would react if he found out. 

Any advice?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

We marry people who were virtual strangers to us before we met them. Sometimes we make mistakes. Personally, I don't think a piece of paper should guarantee some kind of 'let's work it out' option when it comes to perpetrators of physical abuse. No matter what you said, he could have chose to walk away instead of hurting you physically. The fact that you have not had to go to the hospital is dependent largely on chance, and not really a measure of his intent or sentiment. Violence is violence. He got lucky. 

It sounds like he has still got ahold of ou, making sure to tell you all the things you need to work on to 'get it right.' And involving you in some kind of schema in which you can prove your mental fitness. What do you have to prove to him, that is going to gain anything for you? Do you really want to work that hard to gain the respect of someone who solves domestic issues with his fist and then psychological nitpicking? I don't see the point. The only person you need to take care of and answer to is yourself. 

You did good leaving. Many people cannot even make that step. Keep going in that direction.

Any time someone tells you that you cannot go to therapy or should not go to therapy or don't need it, it's a big red flag.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Go to counselling. Lie to him if you need to, but go. 

Personally, I wouldn't consider getting back together with him until he's done a HUGE amount of work on himself. There's no excuse for physical abuse. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Wow!What a story.what are you waiting for.Get a lawyer,get a restraining order and get out of this marriage.the injuries you described sound like you were in a boxing match.The reason you haven,t had to go to an emergency room is pure luck.As for him saying any other man would do the same thing is pure BS.I'm married 33yrs and you know my wife got me mad a time or two,but I never hit her.I would hit a wall and hurt myself.He has anger and controlling issues which it seems he don't want to address.You should definitely dump him,before this gets worse and he will send you to the hospital.I don't know how you put up with this for five years.I wish you the best of luck and you will get great advice from the other posters on this site.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> psychological nitpicking


Thank you for this term, Numero... needed that.... 

I endured this just yesterday.... when he took another go at me this morning I just shut him down. 

101Abn...Your situation "sounds" worse than mine and mine has been rough enough. Because yours is worse and you are so young, do yourself a favor, get out and do the work on yourself necessary to find a better mate next time. And never look back on this relationship....


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## TruDarr (Apr 7, 2014)

I've been in an unhappy marriage with a controlling husband for almost 10 years. Although my husband is not physically abusive, he's emotionally and verbally abusive. I'm 40 years old and I'm now finally realizing that I deserve better. I don't want to waste another day, week, month or year of my life on the hope that things will someday get better. Id give anything to be your age and have the knowledge that I do now. Put your own needs and happiness first! Don't wait until you're my age to realize you deserve better. Life is too short, trust me. I wish you luck and hope you find the answers you need to move on with your life.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

Don't get back together with him anytime soon. He's not only physically abusive but emotionally abusive. He's emotionally breaking you down with the things he has said to you. You start believing the lies of what he says about you, and that you deserve the way you are treated. A big sign of being in an abusive relationship is keeping things secret from your close friends and family. Don't suffer in silence. Go to IC behind his back and get the help you need. Don't tell him until you feel ready to, and always be in a safe public place when/if you meet him.

I don't care how much you argue with your spouse, it should never ever turn physical.

Listen to your intuition, you doubt he has changed because it's telling you he hasn't
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

He "won't let you" out of this marriage? Please stop being a victim, stop making excuses for him, tell everyone what a pos he is, get a restraining order and do not look back. It's. not.going.to.change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

You've taken a great first step by leaving! I would definitely look for a good therapist and I would also contact a local domestic violence agency as well. They can be a great help with support groups and helping you think of ways to stay safe while you're apart. Plus their services are by and large, free. They can probably recommend a good therapist as well.

You know what really struck me though? Your last line: I hate lying in relationships and would feel like such a hypocrite. And yet your conditioning to protect him and the "secret" of his abuse is so strong that you're okay lying to your family about why you aren't living together? Really? It's more important to keep him and the things he does from your family than it is to get yourself the therapy that you recognize you need? That is really telling about how deeply enmeshed you are with your abuser. That's a big issue to look at.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Blossom Leigh:I think you mistook my post.I was telling you to get out of your marriage.I am happily married for 33yrs and I was only talking about two times I got mad and hurt my hand.I WOULD not hit a woman.Also I am not as young as you think.I'm 63.me and my wife thank you for your kind concern and for I thank you for making me young again.LOL


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

If he has been physically abusive, you should leave him and stay gone. Because staying gone will feel painful and difficult in your vulnerable state, I would say: don't even entertain the possibility of a second chance until you have both had therapy separately for a year. By then, you'll probably not want to get back together and he will begin to realize how much work he has to do before he can be considered a reasonable partner to anyone. Physical abuse which has escalated is dangerous, and with the armed battery mentioned (a knife in a threat!), your life is clearly in danger. It will worsen. Accept help from your family and friends. Leave him fully so you can both get help for yourselves.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP where do you live ? If you are in the western world, get social services to help you immediately and have a restraining order filed immediately. Also let your family members know whats been going on so that you have their support too. If not in the western world, then you may have to rely on family and friends to help you out as well as the police.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

thejjones said:


> I am having a hard time getting over it and continuing the marriage, especially when he says things like "we need to learn to communicate better so we (yes we, even though I was never physical with him) dont kill each other" and "you arent an innocent victim in this" and "if you were a man, you probably would have attacked me first."


He is right about one thing, you two do need to find a better method of communicating than fighting. That's what marriage counseling is for. 

But there is a LINE. Verbal is verbal, and physical is physical. No matter how nasty a verbal argument you have, it should NEVER turn physical. He's making excuses for that, but there is no excuse. 



> _I asked him to go to therapy. He went for 3 sessions and stopped. His excuse was money. He said his therapist said "you shouldnt hit her, but it really sounds like she provokes you." So now he repeats that -- I provoked him. He has even suggested any other man would do the same. Even the therapist "saw through me." I never even met her._


He's probably twisting her words. In any case, even if you "provoked" him, he needs enough restraint to not respond physically. And NO, other men would not do the same. 



> _I have wanted to go to therapy for a long time for this and other issues in my past. My husband has been very unsupportive._


Of course he is, because he's worried the therapist will tell you to leave his a$$.

Look, he's lucky he isn't in jail! I'm not one of those people on TAM who scream "leave him" for every offense. But I don't see what other option you have here. I feel strongly in second chances, but he's clearly not taking this problem seriously and you two need a lot of time apart before you should even *consider* going back to him!!


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## Pinkpetal (Jan 2, 2014)

You already have one foot out the door of this marriage by staying with your family. Why not make it a permanent move? 

I know you probably feel embarrassed to tell your family, but why not let your family know the true situation here? Shine a light on the abuse in this marriage. Let your family give you their love and support. 

No more secrets and lies. Stand up for what you believe to be right. If you want to go to counselling then openly go to counselling. If you want to be happy, then choose the path to happiness.

In my opinion, happiness is but a divorce away.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Wow. That is all I can say is wow. If you were fortunate enough to get away in the first place keep it that way. Do not go back. I have been where you are and it is not a good place to be. My family has no idea of the abuse either, my church doesn't know, my neighbors don't know. I had to lie to my husband and get counseling. I had no job and no money.I found a counselor told her I need help, I don;t know what to do, I can't pay you what you charge all at one time, but I am desperate. I will pay you know matter how long it takes for me to get you paid off. Help me please. Ya know what, she did. She took rolls of change and quarters I had collected. Every time I made money or was given money for my birthday or X mas I paid the T with it. She wrote a lot of my visits off, gave them to me as gifts. It can be done. My H never knew. I worked up the nerve to tell him with the T I had. It also was a good way for someone to find out what was going on, a record of events should anything happen to me. My H would never go with me, once he found out I was going. The T and I tried and tried, no luck. 

I don't want the same fate for you. You are young, you have your whole life ahead of you. Tell someone, get the help you need, press charges, call the police, get a restraining order. Do what ever you need to do to keep yourself safe. No one is going to look out for you except you. You gotta do it for you. 

Good luck. I am thinking of you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM. HE WILL KILL YOU EVENTUALLY. Maybe not next time, or the time after that, but one day he will.

There is NO EXCUSE for him putting his hands on you in anger. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAID. You did NOT "drive him to it", "force him to do it" or "provoke him". HE CHOSE TO HIT YOU.

Please also be aware that if you do tell him that you want a divorce, you will be in more danger than you are now, so you need to take steps to ensure your safety (restraining order is useless...you need to be with others at all times).

Stop protecting him. Tell your family what he is.

DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It doesn't seem like he is prepared to change. There's no point in wasting your life waiting for someone else to fix whatever is so fundamentally wrong with them that they beat their spouse. I think you should tell your family; you need their support. Abandon this farce of a marriage, he's broken and no amount of change in you will change him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I feel a little less crazy now. My life has felt like a black hole for the past 4 years or so. I look back at old pictures of myself and wonder what the heck has happened to the time.

I was really starting to think it was my fault. After all, he has claimed to never hit another woman before. All the other women before me were apparently all very sweet and nice, according to him.

I pointed out to him that he never had a serious relationship before we met. Everyone is sweet and nice when you only see them 2X per week for a few hours each time.

When you have to be with someone 24/7 as we were, living AND working together, of course you will fight and of course one of you will be in a bad mood sometimes. There is no excuse to hit someone, especially a woman, ever.

Why couldn't he just walk away?

What really hurts is he said "If a guy ever hit my sister I'd come after him." He has even stepped in with a domestic fight with our neighbor, a stranger.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have intervened or that he shouldn't stick up for his sister if she ever (God forbid) was in that situation.

BUT...

Why was it ok to hit ME dozens of times? Why was it ok to crack me across the face whenever he didn't like something I said, or sometimes when he completely misunderstood me? There were times he hit me when he thought I said something that I didn't even say!

Why was it wrong for that guy to hit his GF, but it was ok to hit me? Why is it wrong for someone to theoretically hit his sister, but it's ok to smack ME around? Don't I have similar value to him that those other women have as his WIFE??

I have felt so completely worthless for so long.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I had a friend who went through similar. She was also blamed for his violence. Even his mother said it was her fault that he was beating her, even threw her through a window. You are being brainwashed by him to think it's all your fault and he's not that type of guy. Abusers do that. He will continue to do it because in his mind he's right. He'll always have an excuse but there are no excuses. You have a full lifetime ahead of you. I hope you enjoy it with a person who would never raise a finger against you, and that's not your husband. He'll never be that person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thejjones said:


> My husband and I have been married almost 5 years, most of them bad. He has been physically violent over the past 3 up until 6 months ago when I moved back in with family. My family doesnt know about the abuse. They think he is out of state caring for a family member who is terminally ill.


Why are you protecting him by not telling your family?

It’s seems to be way over due to tell your family of what is really going on. Tell them what you told us about the physical abuse you have endured. Do you have any photos of the abuse? If you do use those as evidence. 

How do you think your family will react when you tell them? Do you think that thy will be supportive of you?


thejjones said:


> Over the course of our relationship, I have been slapped, kicked, punched (never in the face, if that matters) choked, and threatened with a knife. It has never gotten so bad where I needed to be hospitalized or anything, but I have had a fat lip, 2 black eyes, and a grapefruit sized (measured with an actual grapefruit so not exaggerating) bruise on my arm among other injuries. Hence why I moved out.


From here on out take any physical abuse very seriously. Call the police, report it and go to an emergency room, urgent care clinic or call your doctor. Get it recorded. Get it checked out. 

File a police complaint against him. Since you did not take it seriously, neither does he. That is how this works. In the past you gave him permission to abuse you because you did not stand up to him. When I say stand up I don’t mean that you need to physically fight him back. I mean that you use the law, doctors, and distance from him to protect yourself.



thejjones said:


> We have spent time together since I left without problem. But I am still not convinced he won't do it again. I am not convinced that even if I could see the future and knew he would never do it again that I would want to stay.


Be assured that he will do it again. This is how he handles a relationship.

I think that you would benefit from reading about abuse and by finding some resources for counseling and support. Since we don’t know where you live, we cannot help you find resources. When I was getting out of an abusive relationship I was able to find a place that provided free counseling and group sessions for victims of domestic violence. I learned a lot and it helped me a lot. You can do some google searches in your area and find support.
Here are two things that might help you. Learn about the cycle-of-violence (or cycle-of-abuse). An abuser is not violent, or even verbally abusive all the time. They learn to dish out just enough to keep their control over their partner.. then they act real nice the rest of the time. It keeps their victim unsure of themselves and easy to control. I can see in what you have written that this is what has been going on.
Cycle Of Violence - Domestic Violence
Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships




thejjones said:


> These incidents happened during verbal fights, which I was a participant in. It was not like I was just sitting there and he hit me for no reason. I can admit I can nag and not be pleasant to be around when I'm in a bad mood. I admit I even picked some of the fights, which was wrong. However, I never attacked him physically so it was never self defense on his part.


Nothing you said justifies him hitting you, hurting you and/or pulling a knife on you. No matter what you said, no matter how ugly/angry/etc your words might have been.. all he had to do was walk away. 

Learn from this. Never, ever talk to him when things start to get heated. Just tell him to stop. Tell him that you are leaving the room so that you can both calm down. If he follows you, keeps on arguing, lock yourself in a room and all 911.. or get in your car and drive away. Get away from him. I actually practiced the “STOP” bit in the mirror until it was an automatic reaction. Once I got it down I was never in any heated argument with my abuser again. It did not stop him from doing abusive things without an argument as a catalyst/excuse. But at least the arguments were not part of the scenario any more.

Keep in mind that most of the time when a women is murdered, it’s the man in her life who kills her. Situations like yours is the reason for this. The time when a woman is MOST LIKELY to be murdered by her abuser is when she goes back to him after she has left. This is because when she goes back, the first thing the abuser has to do is to gain control of her… and things escalate.


thejjones said:


> I am having a hard time getting over it and continuing the marriage, especially when he says things like "we need to learn to communicate better so we (yes we, even though I was never physical with him) dont kill each other" and "you arent an innocent victim in this" and "if you were a man, you probably would have attacked me first."


His words here are part of the abuse pattern. This is the verbal part of it. Getting you to doubt yourself. Getting you give him access so he can continue to control and abuse you. 

There are some abusive people who do change. But it takes something catastrophic to make them pay attention and it can take years of counseling/work on their part. He’s not there. He’s not owning his own bad/dangerous behavior. Do not believe him when he says that he will change. He’s not going to. 


thejjones said:


> I asked him to go to therapy. He went for 3 sessions and stopped. His excuse was money. He said his therapist said "you shouldnt hit her, but it really sounds like she provokes you." So now he repeats that -- I provoked him. He has even suggested any other man would do the same. Even the therapist "saw through me." I never even met her.


He probably made that all up or twisted what she said. 
Forget about him getting therapy. You need help. You need to take care of yourself. Find a place that gives help that you can afford. Many places that help victims of domestic violence provide free or sliding scale counseling.


thejjones said:


> The thing is, I have asked him to leave if he got very angry and he never took that advice. I tried to walk away during fights and he would block my way. So of course the fights never diffused.


Because of this you need to avoid being alone with him anywhere. When you are near him have a cell phone on you and have 911 on speed dial. Know the address of where you are at. 


thejjones said:


> I have wanted to go to therapy for a long time for this and other issues in my past. My husband has been very unsupportive. I am extremely depressed, which he blames on me being a negative person. He has told me that he would do everything he can to prevent me from going because he thinks I will make up lies about him to my therapist and that I just want someone to feel sorry for me and he wont spend money on a "whine session." I told him he could come to tell his side of the story and ensure he wasnt being lied about but that didnt change his views.


Abuse is a tool used by weak people to control their partner and family members. Of course he does not want you to get counseling/therapy or talk to anyone. If you do, it weakens his control of you. You need to stop even listening to him. 


thejjones said:


> He says I need to learn to fix my own issues. And him and I also need to fix our issues on our own without therapy.


Another thing that abusers say to control their partner. I think they have a quote book because just about all abusers say all the things that you are telling us about. Your best bet is to just stop talking to him. Why are you giving him the time of day? Every time you let him talk to you, you’re are letting him into your head. This means that you are enabling the situation. You know what he’s up to now. So just stop talking to him.

Do you know that you never have to ever talk to him again? Have you thought about this?


thejjones said:


> He also says he wont let me out of the marriage until we fix it because he wont let me run away from my problems anymore. After we fix the marriage we can decide if we want to be in it, according to him.


He won’t let you out of the marriage? Really? This is not how divorce works. You file for divorce and you get the divorce. He cannot prevent you from getting a divorce. You cannot fix something that cannot be fixed. He’s not going to change and you do not trust him. There is nothing to fix. It’s dead and broken already.


thejjones said:


> I turned 27 last weekend. I realized on my birthday that my 20s are almost over and I have spent the majority of them unhappy.


File for divorce and move on. Get free of this.


thejjones said:


> I have devised a plan of going to the therapist behind his back. But I hate lying in relationships and I would feel like such a hypocrite. Plus I dont know how he would react if he found out.


 You do not even live with him. Why are you allowing him to tell you what to do? 


thejjones said:


> Any advice?


Advice? 
Stop talking to him. Tell him that you are done. If he tries to push the issue call the police, get a restraining order.. do whatever you need to do to get the rest of the way away from him.

Get into counseling at a place that specializes in domestic violence/abuse.

File for divorce. Let the attorney handle him. You never have to talk to him again. If you cannot afford an attorney, some abuse centers have a list of attorneys who will do a divorce pro bono. In most states you can file on your own. Do a google search for your state’s court system’s self-help site. 

If you want to talk divorce we can go there and give you pointers on what to do from here.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

My best friends' Dad, a WWII navy vet, old school, tough as nails, told my best friend one day when he was a young buck; "Son, the day you hit a woman is the day you're no longer a man!"

this guy ain't a real man. 

I had a high conflict gf that I lived with for two years that would throw royal tantrums and throw things at me. I never ever hit her.
I remembered the words my friends dad said.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

OP, you deserve to have a chance at being your best.
Any person, no matter who it is, cannot ever be at their best in the presence of someone who has hurt them physically (or emotionally.) No amount of counseling can erase the primal response to the imprint of violence upon one's memory. Our society has evolved so that you do not have to spend the rest of your life attached to someone responsible for such an imprint.

As for your past 4 years, I personally, having left abusive relationships (yes, plural) feel that forgiving oneself and accepting those years as part of one's overall experience in life, is perhaps the biggest hurdle to staying gone from those relationships. 

As a child, if you suffer abuse, it's easier (though not ever easy) to view oneself as having been someone absolved from doing anything. Yes, we could have run away or gone to a counselor, but there are any number of things that prevent this, so we can forgive our former child self. As an adult, when we have stayed in a relationship or situation a bit too long, it's more difficult to forgive. 

However, I think it's human to have stayed too long. Sometimes a person just has to look at themselves and say, well, imagine that, I acted like a human. How silly of me! And not try to go deeper than that until you feel compelled to do so. 

Trust your feelings. If you feel better without the relationship, that should be enough, I think, in this situation with the history you've shared. Another trait of humans is to OVERTHINK the situation. It sounds like your H is trying to get you to OVERTHINK the situation, and to confuse you into a decision that's favorable to him. Don't fall into the trap of overthinking. Yes, humans can think complex thoughts. But there are times when it's not that complex. It's very simple. So simple, that your H wants to engage your mind with lots of clouds so that you cannot see the light. Don't let him do that. 

You know what you know. Stick with that.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

This is something a friend showed me. It keeps me going and reminds me of where I have been and do not ever want to go beck to. I hope it helps you or someone else here. 

Leslie Morgan Steiner: Why domestic violence victims don't leave | Talk Video | TED.com


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, contact your local women's centre and let them help you form a safe exit plan. DO NOT discuss any of your plans with your husband, as the most dangerous time for a victim is when the abuser knows that they are about to lose the victim.

Abusers very rarely change but, if they do, it's only after acknowledging that they have a problem and seeking intensive therapy. The success rate for this type of therapy is pretty low, but one of the prerequisites is that the abuser and victim aren't living together during the therapy period.

Your H is not only emotionally abusive, but also dangerously violent. If you go back to him, no matter what he promises you, the abuse will be worse than ever before. There could be a honeymoon period, but this usually only lasts long enough for the abuser to re-establish control.

Chat with your local women's centre and get the help that you need to break out of the cycle of abuse of which you are currently a victim.


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## SteveK (Mar 15, 2014)

Read through my thread. My wife and I had a physical dance. It was no where near what you describe. She lefT me after 27 years. I feel had she put up boundaries and neither did I but I have learned it's the abusers fault they abuse. Had my wife reached out leagly for help we would not be where we are. I never wanted to hurt her, I loved her ....and ; 

I have to tell you...LEAVE before he kills you...

Please ray:


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## WallaceBea (Apr 7, 2014)

Pinkpetal said:


> You already have one foot out the door of this marriage by staying with your family. Why not make it a permanent move?
> 
> I know you probably feel embarrassed to tell your family, but why not let your family know the true situation here? Shine a light on the abuse in this marriage. Let your family give you their love and support.
> 
> ...


This.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

I broke down reading them. I have held this in for so long and I have had no one to talk to. I don't have any friends of my own or anyone else in my life I can share with.

I do want to make a couple of things clear, because I think I wasn't before.

I am not trying to protect H by not telling my family. I'm protecting my family. They have a lot of stress right now and I feel like telling them would break them. My mom really is terminally ill (unlike my H's fake relative) and is in and out of the hospital. She just got out of the hospital last Thursday for the fifth time in the past 45 days. 

My dad was laid off after 34 years at his job. No more benefits, including health insurance for my mom.

That's why I am not telling them. Not for My H's sake at all. They don't need any more stress or sadness. I have this somewhat irrational thought that I will kill my mother if I told her.

I tried to talk to him about ending the marriage last night. I want to leave but I am pretty terrified and I don't know what he will do. He has hinted at things which aren't physically abusive at all but are still pretty scary for me. He has taunted "I can hurt you a lot without every laying a finger on you."

I feel like he is watching me all the time. He is constantly calling, shows up outside the house uninvited to see if I'm there. He hacks into my email (which I don't use anymore now) and into my computer (I'm borrowing my dad's now). 

I feel like if I tried to see a therapist he would show up there. He always seems to be one step ahead.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

thejjones said:


> I feel like if I tried to see a therapist he would show up there. He always seems to be one step ahead.


Well, that's one way to get him to go to therapy...


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Theseus said:


> Well, that's one way to get him to go to therapy...


HA!


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## Pinkpetal (Jan 2, 2014)

"I tried to talk to him about ending the marriage last night. I want to leave but I am pretty terrified and I don't know what he will do. He has hinted at things which aren't physically abusive at all but are still pretty scary for me. He has taunted "I can hurt you a lot without every laying a finger on you."


I can understand what you were trying to do here, but I think that the talk was pointless. Your H is an abuser, and all that was achieved was him frightening you with implied threats. It's a form of emotional abuse. 
My ex H was an ace at it. It's a manipulation. Your H wants you to believe that he is all seeing, all knowing and he has the power to control your life. Please don't fall for it! You are already questioning his actions, start questioning his words! The only true power this man has over you is what you ALLOW him to have. 

I'm truly sorry for what your family is going through. But you can do this alone if you have to. I did. My family knew my marriage wasn't good, but they never truly knew just how ugly it was behind closed doors. It takes strength Jones. And resolve. But I believe if you really want a happy life you do have the strength needed - trust me when I say its there. Find it.

You need a plan. Keep it simple. Stay with your family. They need you now anyway. Get a restraining order because you fear for your safety. Serve H with divorce papers. Continue with counselling. 

Please don't try to have any more one on one talks with H, trying to reach an amicable outcome. I know the nice person in you wants to treat H decently. In my opinion it's a waste of time - and a man who raises a hand to hit his wife, and uses words to frighten her to his way of thinking certainly does not deserve it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow. You've gotta get away from this guy, and for soooo many reasons, all of which you've pretty much outlined above.

Also, I'm feeling the need to break out w/ what has sort of become my mantra...

No kids? RUN! GTFO!!!


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

JJones, please don't blame yourself for this happening to you. NONE of this is your fault. Please engrave that on your mind and repeat it to yourself daily — 100 times if you have to. Okay, so you participated in and picked some fights. So? Unless you went at him with a knife or other weapon, his behavior is completely unjustified. And, *it's wrong.*

The fact that you are out of there is an excellent first step! That tells me you DO have the strength to get rid of this loser. I know it doesn't seem like it now .... but you do.



thejjones said:


> I tried to talk to him about ending the marriage last night. I want to leave but I am pretty terrified and I don't know what he will do.


1. You have already left physically. Now, you need to work on leaving mentally and emotionally. Easier said than done, I know — it appears you were a faithful, good wife, and that you truly loved him. However, he ripped up his "husband card" the moment he first laid a hand on you in anger. You do NOT deserve to spend the rest of your life with this turd, whether you have issues or not. 

2. Follow up on domestic-violence resources in your community. They can point you to counseling services, and will help you form a plan for protection and hiding if you need it.



> He has hinted at things which aren't physically abusive at all but are still pretty scary for me. He has taunted "I can hurt you a lot without every laying a finger on you."


This is classic manipulation: He's puffing himself up, making himself "THE man in control" in his mind. Don't fall for it!



> I feel like he is watching me all the time. He is constantly calling, shows up outside the house uninvited to see if I'm there. He hacks into my email (which I don't use anymore now) and into my computer (I'm borrowing my dad's now).


Good moves (stopping use of the email and borrowing dad's computer). Now, it's time to get a restraining order and file those divorce papers. 

Call the police each and EVERY time he shows up uninvited, and tell them, "This man physically abused me, my family is in great distress, and I want him out of here." You do not need to explain anything else to them. But be firm and consistent! Also, be as unemotional as you can be. That way, you will have a paper trail should he decide to be a jerk in court.

Continue with counseling, whether he shows up or not (I have a feeling he won't). Do NOT take his phone calls (change your number if you have to), answer his emails or even acknowledge his presence if he happens to be where you are when you're out and about. This scumbag doesn't deserve ANYTHING from you — not even eye contact.

You'll cry, you'll ask, "Why me?!?", you'll wonder what you did to make him behave this way. But please keep in mind: YOU did not make him do any of this. HE chose to treat you this way ... and any man that treats a woman this way is lower than pond scum. It can be done, JJones .... please keep us posted, and stay strong. Come back here as often as you need to.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Beware when you signed up for an account here, if you entered an e-mail address, that account has received mail from TAM. If he monitors your e-mail, then he has seen those messages and may already be here.



Unless you configure it differently, any Private Messages that are sent to you will probably generate an alert message in your e-mail in-box.





I do not know how your father thinks, or your mother, but if my daughter were in your shoes an my wife and I in your parents', the thing I would want most in this world is to know the truth about it.



They cannot do a damn thing about your mother's illness, or your father's job loss, but they can help protect you and get you the help you need. 



I am not a Dr., and I of course have not seen your mother. But, is it possible that rather than killing your mother it would give her something to get pissed enough about it would give her a will to live?



Get a new email account. Pick an address and password he would never guess.



Change your account settings here on TAM to FIRST turn off every possible e-mail notification. Then change your e-mail associated with your TAM account to the new one. Then, promptly check your original e-mail account and delete any TAM messages and then empty out any sort of "Deleted" folder.





Print out a copy of your opening message. Write on it "I am thejones" and sign your name and date it. Either put it on the kitchen table for your parents to find, or hide it somewhere they may find it should you someday disappear or be found dead.



I am sorry if that last part is harsh. I am truly worried for your safety, and your isolation makes it all the more dangerous.


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## Baablacksheep (Aug 29, 2013)

I want to weigh in on this, it brings back some real memories for me. I want to be clear that I don't support what your husband does to you !! He chooses to become physical, he chooses to escalate. But I have to ask you, OP, have you done all you can do to keep situations from escalating? The fact that your in a bad mood does not give you the 'right' to provoke him. Words do hurt as you can well attest I'm sure. Have you considered that you were hurting him with your words ? The most basic need for a man is respect ,when he's not feeling respected by you he doesn't respond with love, and vice versa. You both could use independent counseling that's for sure, but you can only take care of you. Whether he does or not is up to him. If he goes because he's forced to, it probably will go in one ear and out the other. I would encourage you to not live with him anymore till he's gone through counseling. He's not dealing well with his anger, and till he decides to get help he'll not change. I wish you both the best , it's not an easy situation for you. Don't think I'm trying to make his violence your fault, I'm trying to see things from 50,000 feet here. I am not perfect either, nor do I expect it from you[or him].


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

She talked to him about ending the marriage, and he reminds her he can hurt alot without laying a finger on her.



That demonstrates his propensity to abuse, even without "provocation."


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Baablacksheep said:


> I want to weigh in on this, it brings back some real memories for me. I want to be clear that I don't support what your husband does to you !! He chooses to become physical, he chooses to escalate. But I have to ask you, OP, have you done all you can do to keep situations from escalating? The fact that your in a bad mood does not give you the 'right' to provoke him. Words do hurt as you can well attest I'm sure. Have you considered that you were hurting him with your words ? The most basic need for a man is respect ,when he's not feeling respected by you he doesn't respond with love, and vice versa. You both could use independent counseling that's for sure, but you can only take care of you. Whether he does or not is up to him. If he goes because he's forced to, it probably will go in one ear and out the other. I would encourage you to not live with him anymore till he's gone through counseling. He's not dealing well with his anger, and till he decides to get help he'll not change. I wish you both the best , it's not an easy situation for you. Don't think I'm trying to make his violence your fault, I'm trying to see things from 50,000 feet here. I am not perfect either, nor do I expect it from you[or him].


I understand what you're saying completely.

I admit I can be what he calls me all the time. A b*tch. Especially when I'm stressed.

Like I said in my first post, I don't want to paint the picture that I'm the perfect wife who is docile and sweet and he's just a monster and beats me up all the time for no reason.

This isn't a Lifetime TV movie. It's real life and there is blame on both sides.

He can be so sweet and caring. He is the kind of man that I can mention liking a bracelet I see online and he remembers and buys it for me for my birthday 8 months later (this actually happened). In other words, he listens. He cares. He is faithful. He has a lot of qualities that make him a great husband. 

This is why it has been so hard to leave. 

But he has MAJOR anger problems, and not just directed at me. His parents disclosed to me that the anger issues have been there since he was a young teen.

One time a dumb teenage girl blew a stop sign at 40 MPH and almost hit us. She could have killed us so of course he was angry. He blocked her car so she couldn't drive away, then got out and started screaming at her. She got out and instead of apologizing like he wanted, she screamed right back. 

He spit in her face. I was shocked.

He has done similar things to other people that angered him while driving. I have never seen a man react like that when someone cuts him off in traffic. Most of the guys I know (friends, former boyfriends, family) just flick the person off and keep driving, or they just roll their eyes. 

This anger scares me.

Sometimes he would attack me when he told me not to talk anymore and I would keep talking - so I guess that's my fault for not shutting up. I did provoke him there, and I didn't do all I could to not escalate the situation.

A few weeks ago I was told if I didn't shut up he would hit me in the head with his laptop power brick. I shut up and he did not hit me. So I guess I didn't provoke him there.

But I also don't want to feel like I have to follow orders and walk on egg shells. I need to express myself, and sometimes things just need to be said. 

I can also remember plenty of times when I tried to talk to him reasonably and got smacked. One time he accused me of looking at a video with a shirtless male model. He is very jealous and gets angry if I look at videos like that because he goes out of his way not to look at scantily clad women.

I did not watch the video. I clicked on it by mistake and immediately clicked off so I didn't even see the model.

He got in my face about it. I tried to explain what happened reasonably and calmly. He wouldn't let me explain. He called me a lying b*tch and cracked me so hard across the face it knocked the contact lens out of my eye.

I don't see how I provoked him there. 

Either way, we all get "provoked." We all get annoyed and angry. When he "provokes" me I have things I do to calm down that don't involve hitting him.

We can't respond to provocation by spitting in people's faces and smacking our husbands/wives around.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> Beware when you signed up for an account here, if you entered an e-mail address, that account has received mail from TAM. If he monitors your e-mail, then he has seen those messages and may already be here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I made a brand new email account for this and I am using a computer he doesn't have access to so he won't find this. 

I also make it a rule to not sign into TAM on any computer except the one he doesn't have access to, then I clear the history and cookies after I'm done on TAM, even on the computer he doesn't have access to. That's why I only sign on every few days, because it's the only time I can get to this computer.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm going to talk to you based on what I was - a battered spouse. I felt shame, guilt, and most of all, I didn't tell a soul.

No, I wasn't the perfect wife. But my ex-husband minimized his actions by placing the onus of guilt on me. If only I hadn't raised my voice, if only I hadn't slammed my hand down on the kitchen counter, etc. 

Then he actually turned the tables big-time and told me he never hit me unless he was fending me off while I attacked him!

Yeah, he was that doggone nuts. He believed his own lies. I was slapped, hit, sucker-punched, dragged by my hair across the floor, thrown down the steps, had my arm twisted, you name it.

If only I wasn't such a b!tch. I only I "supported" him when he lost his latest job (and he lost a lot of jobs!). 

One Sunday evening in June, I'd had enough. He wanted $800 so he could just slide by until the next job came along. Nope. I told him $400 was my best offer.

Just the week before, I discovered an unregistered hand gun in his office. 

Within 45 minutes, I had my clothes and my files tossed into my car. My 10 month old cat? Nope. I could come back the next day for the cat.

Anger got me through this situation. I grabbed the cat from him and told him he'd have to kill me to get the cat away from me.

NOT SOMETHING I WOULD ADVISE ANYONE ELSE TO TRY BUT I WAS FINALLY IN TOUCH WITH THE RAGE I'D FELT AT THIS ABUSER FOR YEARS.

I tossed the cat in the back seat; hubs refused to give me the cat carrier. 

Husband followed me out to the car and pushed me down on the driveway. I kicked him, jumped into the car, and managed to get it started.

As I tried to put the car in reverse, my husband grabbed my hair and tried to pull me out of the car. I threw that sucker in reverse and threw him off the car.

I was in court the following morning getting a temporary restraining order. The following week, I was granted a one-year order. I carried it with me anywhere. 

Hubs was escorted from the house the day after I was granted my restraining order. The mouse had finally roared. He never, ever threatened me again. No phone calls. No popping up. If he had, I would have called 911 immediately and he would have been arrested. 

I was able to safely remove my possessions from the house.

I never looked back. And I was grateful to get out with my life.

Please don't minimize. I don't care if you are the biggest [email protected] b!tch in the world. You don't deserve to have your spouse hitting you.

This man is sick. He will isolate you and he will continue rationalizing his abuse.

Take it from someone who lived with it. You are out. Stay out. 

Get a restraining order.

Get a divorce.

Move to a place where he cannot find you.

Trust me. I did it and it worked.


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## 101Abn (Jan 15, 2014)

Bravo for you Prodigal.The Jjones follow this ladies example.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

Abusive people like your husband are just not marriage material IMO. I think you need to face this square on, and in whatever way that works for you, make him your ex-husband.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

You need to divorce this man. Stop minimizing his actions. Do not give him an ultimatum, do not consider going back, do not consider counseling, give him no slack but DO NOT tell him you are planning to divorce him. Telling him how you feel could make the violence escalate. My advise to you is get get yourself safe, get your belongings out, and then file for divorce. If he is the type that will follow you and stock you....move to make yourself safe. You do not need to put up with this. What he is doing is wrong, he has issues.

Keep yourself safe!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TJ, you are minimizing the abuse your husband has been dishing out.

You say that you did not stop talking, thus you provoked him. Nonsense. There is no excuse for him hitting you. Your talking does not justify him hitting you.

He threatened you with a computer power supply? If it's anything like the power supply on my laptop, it could have killed you. 

If he does not want to hear you talking anymore, the only reasonable things for him to do is to ask you to be quiet. If you don't stop talking he is free to walk away from you.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM.

There is nothing reasonable or expectable with the behavior you describe. Of course he's nice sometimes. He has to be nice sometimes or you would leave. So he suck you in by being nice.. .the whack! he physically attacks you. Then he's nice again for a while. That's called the cycle of abuse. You are on the treadmill.

Abuse gets worse over time.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

Jj, I'm going to speak to you from my experience as a battered girlfriend. Granted, it's not the same as being a wife, but the patterns of abuse are the same. (I apologize in advance because some of this will be graphic.)



thejjones said:


> I understand what you're saying completely. I admit I can be what he calls me all the time. A b*tch. Especially when I'm stressed. Like I said in my first post, I don't want to paint the picture that I'm the perfect wife who is docile and sweet and he's just a monster and beats me up all the time for no reason. This isn't a Lifetime TV movie. It's real life and there is blame on both sides.


We all get angry and stressed, and those circumstances don't bring out the best in people (most of us, anyway). And we all have baggage. However, there is baggage and there is *Baggage*. As I said before: Okay, maybe you picked and participated in some fights. HE is responsible for his behavior. He could have chosen to walk away, go into another room, or leave the house. There is NO excuse for name-calling or physical/verbal violence on a spouse or loved one.



thejjones said:


> He can be so sweet and caring. He is the kind of man that I can mention liking a bracelet I see online and he remembers and buys it for me for my birthday 8 months later (this actually happened). In other words, he listens. He cares. He is faithful. He has a lot of qualities that make him a great husband. ...


Abusers play this game all the time. They have to, in order to keep their punching bag at their side. My own battering ex did it to me. He would choke me into unconsciousness with his bare hands one moment, then give me a sterling-silver necklace for my birthday. Or buy me sexy underwear, saying he loved seeing me in it. Usually before making me do sexual things I didn't want to do, which I will not describe here.

He seemed to listen when I told him my hopes and dreams for us ... swore up and down that he loved me and wanted ME at his side for life. It never mattered. Nothing I did or said — no matter how softly and reasonably it was said or done — was enough to prevent him from choking me, cheating on me, throwing me into a fence or garage wall, verbally and mentally abusing me and pulling a weapon on me. Nothing. It only stopped when I called his BS, filed a police report AND restraining order, and *left him*.



thejjones said:


> Sometimes he would attack me when he told me not to talk anymore and I would keep talking ... A few weeks ago I was told if I didn't shut up he would hit me in the head with his laptop power brick. I shut up and he did not hit me. So I guess I didn't provoke him there. ...
> 
> I can also remember plenty of times when I tried to talk to him reasonably and got smacked. One time he accused me of looking at a video with a shirtless male model. ... He got in my face about it. I tried to explain what happened reasonably and calmly. He wouldn't let me explain. He called me a lying b*tch and cracked me so hard across the face it knocked the contact lens out of my eye.
> 
> I don't see how I provoked him there.


You did NOTHING to provoke him. And incidentally, I would seriously question his claims of fidelity (re: never looking at scantily-clad women). 

You see, what happened to you about the model happened to me with my ex. He would scream and froth at the mouth if I happened to innocently glance at any other man while we were out (and punched me for it a couple of times) .... oh, but guess what? He had been cheating on me from day one (giving me a fortunately-curable STD in the process), and was suspected of molesting a 12-year-old girl, as well. Who just happened to be a family member of one of his then-friends.

Now, I am not implying that your husband IS unfaithful or molests young girls. I'm just saying that those who scream the loudest usually have something to hide.

And threatening to hit you with a laptop power brick?!?!? Like EleGirl said, those things can cause serious injury, and in the worst cases, death.



thejjones said:


> ... he has MAJOR anger problems, and not just directed at me. His parents disclosed to me that the anger issues have been there since he was a young teen.


This man is not marriage material, and never was. This is his problem to correct, not yours. Why his parents are telling you this now is beyond me ... but the fact is, this turd is an abusive loser.

You do not need or deserve a "man" like this in your life. You are worthy of caring, respect, and mutual trust ... and a real, stable loving relationship. Please stop making excuses for him and get rid of him. I know it's easier said than done .... but people like him are like a Ponzi scheme. No matter how much good money you throw in, you will never get anything other than empty promises. Time to cut your losses!


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

This is something I put at a different site, but it applies here. 


In march a year ago, in 2013 , I made a thread about trying to escape an abusive situation. The frustration was "Why do I stay, why do I allow this, and why do I think about leaving an never do." 
Then a year later I got a few more responses, and was having difficulties yet again, So when I revisited that thread, I read it again. All of it, all the advice, all the responses, all my responses. Ya know what in a year nothing had changed really. I was still that sad person, that scared person, and that person who is/was afraid to take control of here life. 

My hope here is to mainly help Jj to see that things don;t always change. I have no room to talk because I am still with my H. But just maybe something here will help Jj or someone else. 


So here goes....
"Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:43 AM
I got a response this morning to this post I made a year ago. I didn't realize it had been a full year already. Guess what.....I am still here, still with this man. Still struggling, still debating. I feel a little more control of my destiny at the moment. I am thinking about leaving and am trying to get my crap in order. Who knows I am y chicken out, like I have a million times before, or I may finally do it. At this point if he blows up again that is it. 

I was reading back over the responses I had gotten in the past year and this one stuck out. Many stuck out but I have seen this one posted on here many times. I don't know how to do that awesome quote thing that everyone seems to know how to do, so I am just doing it the old fashioned way. I am putting ( * ) what ever that is by the ones that apply to me. I am leaving them all up just in case this applies to others. 





This came straight from the Domestic Violence Crisis Center in my area's Website. I hope it helps you!!Why People Stay This was from my local Domestic Violence Center's website

People who stay in violent relationships undergo gradual steps of reasoning to reconcile the violence in their minds. The reasons a victim stays may change as the violence in the relationship progresses.
At first he/she stays because:
he/she loves him/her
* he/she believes she/he will grow up or change
* he/she believes he/she can control the beatings by doing as he/she says; cleaning the house, keeping the children quiet, having dinner on time, etc.
he/she believes that he/she can convince him/her that he/she loves him/her (and end his/her jealousy)
* he/she believes it is his/her duty to make the relationship work
he/she believes he/she can reason with him/her
he/she believes him/her when he/she says that he/she is sorry and won't do it again
he/she's embarrassed for him/her and/or himself/herself, so he/she seldom seeks help
* he/she's afraid of what will happen if the police get involved
Later a victim stays because:
* he/she loves him, but less
* he/she hopes he/she will change or get help
he/she is under pressure from family or friends to stay
he/she believes he/she loves and needs him/her
he/she is afraid to be alone
* he/she believes he/she can't support him/herself
* he/she believes his/her promises that he/she will change and that they'll start living the life he/she dreams of, that he/she will get counseling, that he'll stop abusing drugs or alcohol, etc.
* he/she is confused
he/she is increasingly afraid of his/her partner's violence and may see lethality in his/her out of control behaviors
Finally he/she stays because:
* fear: he/she has become tremendously powerful in his/her eyes
he/she threatens to kill him/her or the children or his/her family
* he/she has developed low self-esteem
* he/she believes no one can love her/him
he/she believes he/she can't survive alone
he/she is very confused and feels guilty: "he/she cares, he/she beats me, I must be bad, I must deserve this, I don't know why"
* he/she becomes depressed and immobile. Decisions are difficult, sometimes even impossible for him/her to make.
* he/she believes he/she has no control over his/her life
* he/she feels hopeless and helpless
he/she believes he/she has no other options
* he/she has developed serious emotional or physical problems
he/she becomes suicidal and homicidal


Well that is me in a nut shell. Yet I continue to to stay. I can't think for myself. I do what I am told. I can't decide what to do, I know what to do but the fear keeps me here, I guess. 

At the time, a year ago, when this was first written I couldn't read that list. Now a year later I can read this and own some of this stuff. PLEASE PRAY FOR ME: That the Lord would give me the guidance to make decisions I need to. That he will give me the stregnth to deal with my choices. That he will give me the sanity to live with my decisions or that he will intervene and turn things completely around and that he will show my husband a new way of doing things.

We are in T together at the moment, so that is a positive, but it still doesn't change the circumstances. "

Quote
MultiQuote
Edit


This happens to so many of us here and it is not right and it is not fair. I hope there is something here that helps you see what is going on and what has affected you and that you find the stregnth to do what you need to do. Weather that be T for you, MC for both of you, or just to completely leave this man. 

Good luck dear, know I feel for you, and I am thinking of you, and praying for you as I do for myself that God will show you the answer and provide a way.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> In march a year ago, in 2013 , I made a thread about trying to escape an abusive situation. The frustration was "Why do I stay, why do I allow this, and why do I think about leaving an never do."
> Then a year later I got a few more responses, and was having difficulties yet again, So when I revisited that thread, I read it again. All of it, all the advice, all the responses, all my responses. Ya know what in a year nothing had changed really. I was still that sad person, that scared person, and that person who is/was afraid to take control of here life.
> 
> My hope here is to mainly help Jj to see that things don;t always change. I have no room to talk because I am still with my H. But just maybe something here will help Jj or someone else.
> ...


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

This is really sad. You need to tell someone you know. Doesn't have to be your parents but you need some real life support from someone.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

TurtleRun said:


> This is really sad. You need to tell someone you know. Doesn't have to be your parents but you need some real life support from someone.


I know. I don't know what advice to give for this kind of situation. OP, you need to call an official battered women's shelter and get out now. Please do so and protect yourself.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. 

I can relate - my husband has abusive tendencies although he has never been physically violent with me, but that's not to say verbal abuse feels any better. 

We have been going to therapy steadily for almost the entire duration of our marriage. That is the only way your husband will ever be able to overcome his abusive ways, if at all. My husband has made leaps and bounds, but that is only because he has taken accountability for his behavior and we have techniques we employ now when things get too "heated" in arguments. That's not to say he is never abusive anymore - I just posted last week about a setback he had and called me some awful names. I am still trying to work through how to handle it and I am likely going to seek a psychologist to get help and how to move forward. It is just not healthy or sane to live with someone who can be so cruel.

Your husband sounds like he is still in denial. Until he can admit HE has a problem, you're out of luck. Stand your ground and do not go back to him until he agrees to regular therapy - ALONE. Going together won't solve anything because he'll just use you as the scape goat for everything. He needs to see someone alone and figure out where all of this anger is coming from. Most abusers are highly insecure - although they will never admit it because then that would be showing weakness. 

Give him a time frame - a few months, or even a year if you want to wait around that long for him to figure it out. But don't go back unless he agrees to weekly therapy. It will help, but he has to be committed to it and actually employ what he is learning. 

Good luck to you. Be strong!!!


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Oh - and one of the biggest things I forgot to mention is to SHARE with your family and friends. What you need MOST is support. Keeping it a secret will do you no good. 

You need a support system and a safety plan. Telling your family and close friends will help this and will help you get through this, no matter what you decide to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thejjones said:


> Over the course of our relationship, I have been slapped, kicked, punched (never in the face, if that matters) choked, and threatened with a knife.


No, it doesn't. The only thing that tells us is that he is cognizant enough of his abuse that he knows not to make marks where other people will see them and report him - since he knows YOU won't.

Change that.

Tell someone the truth.

Today.

Just one person.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> No, it doesn't. The only thing that tells us is that he is cognizant enough of his abuse that he knows not to make marks where other people will see them and report him - since he knows YOU won't.
> 
> Change that.
> 
> ...


I think that the OP has left and is not coming back. Hope I'm wrong.

turner, what you say here is very important. Often abusers will say that they just have no control over what they do. The fact that they can act differently when others are around shows that they have complete control over their behavior. They know when it's safe to be abusive and when it's not.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses. This has really helped me take a step in the right direction. I'm sorry it took me so long to respond but I had a lot going on and just couldn't get any time to myself to log on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what did you do?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a daughter your age & I am heartbroken for you.

I do hope you find the courage to divorce this man as soon as possible. Please start documenting any & all threatening, abusive conversations with him both verbal & written. Get a lawyer. Get a restraining order. If he stalks you, take pictures of him & have him arrested. Tell your friends & family members that can "handle" bad news & help you. Go to counseling.

Honey, this isn't a marriage; it's terrorism.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

One last thing before we all move on from this topic.

I hear all the time how I'm so horrible. I'm the biggest b!tch he's ever known. I make him want to kill himself. Any man in his place would hit me because I'm such an awful shrew. If we end our relationship and I get into another one, that man will kill me because I'm so terrible. Ex Girlfriends Y and Z were so much better than me. On and on.

So why not divorce if I'm literally the worst woman on the planet?

I have told him that I will make the divorce as easy as possible. I don't want ANY spousal support or money. I don't want anything except my belongings (clothing, kitchen utensils, etc). I will not make this stressful or difficult at all.

So why doesn't he just do it if I'm the devil in human form, as he has told me I am?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'll suggest that you hear from HIM that you are the worst woman on the planet.

And why would you believe that? From an abuser?

He doesn't do it because his only goal is TO CONTROL YOU.


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## wanttofix (Jun 4, 2013)

PBear said:


> Go to counselling. Lie to him if you need to, but go.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't consider getting back together with him until he's done a HUGE amount of work on himself. There's no excuse for physical abuse.
> 
> ...


until? There shouldn't be an until. He lost the privilege of having you in his life after the first swing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thejjones said:


> One last thing before we all move on from this topic.
> 
> I hear all the time how I'm so horrible. I'm the biggest b!tch he's ever known. I make him want to kill himself. Any man in his place would hit me because I'm such an awful shrew. If we end our relationship and I get into another one, that man will kill me because I'm so terrible. Ex Girlfriends Y and Z were so much better than me. On and on.
> 
> ...


He's abusive. He uses those words to make try to control you and make himself feel better. 

Are you still living with him? I thought you had left him. Why are you talking to him and letting him talk to you like this?

I'm not sure I understand your question of why doesn't he just do it? I assume you mean why doesn't he just file for divorce?

My question is why are you waiting for him to file for divorce. Why don't you file for divorce? He cannot stop the divorce. He cannot prevent you from getting one.

How much money are you giving up by not asking for anything? You might be thinking that you are doing something good by not asking for your share of marital assets, but it makes little sense. You need to start out on a new life. Surely this would help you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

thejjones said:


> So why not divorce if I'm literally the worst woman on the planet? ...So why doesn't he just do it if I'm the devil in human form, as he has told me I am?


*Short Answer:* TJ, one of the best-selling psychology books addresses that very question, explaining why a man who hates his wife doesn't want her to leave. This book is called _*I Hate You, Don't Leave Me*._ In a nutshell, the most likely reason is that your H has a fragile self image because his emotional development was frozen at the level of a four year old. If so, one result is that he has a great fear of abandonment (evident, e.g., in his intense irrational jealousy). Another result is that, by having you around to blame for every misfortune, you serve to "validate" his false self image of always being "The Victim" (the closest thing he has to a lasting self image).

*Long Answer:* The answer to your question depends on what is causing his emotional instability. The two most common causes are (1) a temporary hormone problem (e.g., puberty, mid-life change, or brain injury) and (2) drug abuse. These seem to be ruled out, however, because his parents say his lack of emotional control has persisted since the early teens and you mention no drug abuse problem. This leaves only two remaining common causes. One of these is (3) bipolar disorder, which exhibits many strong symptoms that you are NOT describing. 

The only remaining common cause, then, is (4) BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Significantly, although BPD typically is firmly entrenched before age five, the symptoms usually do not start appearing strongly until the adolescent reaches puberty in the early teens, the same time period that your H's anger problems started. Indeed, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., strong verbal abuse, physical abuse, inability to trust, lack of impulse control, temper tantrums, controlling nature, emotional instability, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD, which my exW has. 

I caution, however, that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, which is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." We all have BPD traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits those traits. Of course he does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level. 

Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. Moreover, only a professional can determine whether his traits are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD. I therefore suggest you speak with your therapist about it. Specifically, I would suggest speaking with a psychologist or psychiatrist, both of whom have PhDs in psychology. A therapist with a masters degree also may be fine if he is very experienced in evaluating BPDers and other disordered people.

You nonetheless are capable of learning how to spot these warning signs -- in order to avoid repeating a toxic relationship with someone else -- if you take a little time to learn what red flags to look for. There is nothing subtle about behaviors such as physical abuse, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, and always being "The Victim."



> He can be so sweet and caring. ... he listens. He cares. He is faithful. He has a lot of qualities that make him a great husband.


BPDers (those with strong BPD traits) are notorious for the rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing or even hating) you are describing. Hence, when they are being good, BPDers are very VERY good. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are correct. The downside, however, is that when BPDers are behaving badly, their behaviors are very VERY bad.



> He blocked her car so she couldn't drive away, then got out and started screaming at her. ...He spit in her face. ...I have never seen a man react like that when someone cuts him off in traffic.


No, but you've seen that same behavior numerous times in young children. Indeed, this likely is exactly what you'll see any time you give a four-year-old several toys and then take one of them away. I mention this because, if your H is a BPDer, his emotional development likely is stunted at that level.



> I feel a little less crazy now.


"Crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling if you've been living with a BPDer for the past five years, TJ. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouses feel like they may be losing their minds. Of the other 156 disorders, only two others (narcissism and sociopathy) come close to having that "crazy making" effect on the partners.



> I feel like I have to follow orders and walk on egg shells.


Again, that is exactly how you should be feeling if you've been living with a BPDer for five years. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called _*Stop Walking on Eggshells*._



> Why couldn't he just walk away?


If he is a BPDer, he has such a weak, fragmented self identity that you serve two essential purposes. First, you provide him with a sense of direction by helping to ground and center him. A man who has no firm sense of self is like a boat without a rudder. In that limited sense, then, you are the "rudder" and help to define him. 

You accomplish this by "validating" his false self image of always being "The Victim." Toward that end, he will remain married to you only as long as you continue to play one of two roles. While he is "splitting you white" (adoring you), you are allowed to play the role of "The Rescuer." The implication, of course, is that he must be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be trying so hard to rescue him. 

Importantly, he only wants validation of that false self image. He doesn't really want to be rescued from anything. If he is a BPDer, this will be evident in the way -- after you've pulled him from the raging seas -- he will jump right back into the water as soon as your back is turned.

The other role you are allowed to play is that of "The Perpetrator." Hence, while he is splitting you black, he will blame you for every misfortune that befalls him. In this way, he is able to validate his role as "The Victim" and to perceive of himself as "all good." This is important to BPDers because they categorize everyone (including themselves) as "all good" or "all bad." Admitting he made a mistake, then, implies to him that he is "all bad," which releases painful feelings of shame he's been carrying since early childhood. Hence, in addition to being his "rudder," you also are the "wastebasket" in which he disposes of all hurtful thoughts and feelings. That is done, subconsciously, by projecting them all onto you. 

So, to answer your question, your H has no intention of walking away from this rudder and wastebasket if he has strong BPD traits. Not after just five years. Instead, BPDers typically walk away after 12 to 15 years. The reason is that, as the years go by, a BPDer becomes increasingly resentful of your inability to make him happy (an impossible task). 

At the same time, his fear of abandonment likely will grow as he sees his body aging and his health failing. This is why BPDers eventually become so fearful of abandonment that they will preemptively abandon their partners to stop the pain -- and to prevent their partners from doing it to them.

TJ, if you would like to read more about BPD red flags, I suggest you start with my list of red flags in *18 BPD Warning Signs*. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in *Maybe's Thread*. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, TJ.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

jj

one way to cut through the accusations of an abuser is this:

look to your past relationships. did you get along with previous boyfriends? what do others say about you?
find security in the past. if you had any successful previous relationships then that invalidates all the awful things and should give you confidence.

my former wife was an abuser. whenever her bs would make me question myself, I would remember my past relationships and realize that non of my previous gf's said any of the things abuser wife did.

even if you do have serious issues, he is a bum and nobody deserves what he's been dishing out.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

abusers project their own misery on to others.

they need a host and you are it.

Run!!!!!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

So far you've been lucky ( yeah right) and what I mean is that you haven't been hit to a point where you require a stint in the hospital but there is no guarantee that it wont happen and with that said.................why take the chance.

Look. You made a break and right now your not under roof with him so please don't run the risk of thinking that he will never do this again. Were talking about your life here.

Get out of this mess ASAP. Get a lawyer and move on and by all means if you need IC then do it but don't take the chance that he will never do this again.

The man is an abuser and has no problem hitting someone that he knows he can over power. That isn't a man and he never will be because he hung the sign "wife beater" around his own neck the first time he hit you.

Lord only knows my first wife pushed me to the point that if I would have started, I wouldn't quit until there would be nothing left of her but bones, hair and teeth, but I took the high road and kept my self respect and dignity and because of that I was able to look myself in the mirror without shame.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

He is violent towards you. He is unlikly to change. Abuse gets worse the longer you stay.. If he truely loved you he wouldnt treat you as his own personal punching bag. You need to tell your family about whats going on

DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM, file or divorce and move on.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Uptown said:


> *Short Answer:* TJ, one of the best-selling psychology books addresses that very question, explaining why a man who hates his wife doesn't want her to leave. ....
> 
> TJ, if you would like to read more about BPD red flags, I suggest you start with my list of red flags in *18 BPD Warning Signs*. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in *Maybe's Thread*. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, TJ.


Thanks for taking the time to write this.

He did get into a car accident and have a head injury right around the time we met. It was fairly severe and he was hospitalized for it. I don't know if that made things worse or not because I barely knew him before the accident.

He would say that I am that person you are describing. He says that I need to quit "acting like a victim and take accountability for our fights." According to him the fighting is "90%" my fault. I would say it's more like 50/50.

He has all sorts of diagnoses for me. Apparently, I'm bipolar, a sociopath, and I have ADD. I am also extremely immature according to him and my mental development stopped at 17.

He also CONSTANTLY brings up everything I've ever done wrong in our relationship. For example, more than 4 years ago I met a guy who worked in the same field I wanted to get into and would be a great contact. I talked to this guy and friended him on Facebook and didn't tell H because I knew he would freak. I had no attraction to this man whatsoever.

Was this wrong? Absolutely. I fully admit it. I should never have talked to him in the first place or I should have told H about it. I immediately unfriended the guy and handed over all my email/social media passwords to H. Then I just deleted the Facebook account all together.

But still I am not allowed to have social media accounts or go anywhere without him. And he still brings it up as if it was yesterday.

But this year, he hit me so hard in the face that we thought my nose was broken (luckily it wasn't). I had two black eyes for over a week. It happened because he called me a "stupid b!tch" during an argument and I walked away and told him I wouldn't tolerate being called that. He grabbed me and forced me back into my seat. When I reiterated that I wouldn't talk to him until he calmed down and apologized for calling me that name, he grabbed me by the neck. I hit him in the face (I am normally not violent but I was being choked after all!) and that's when he hit me really hard.

His excuse? I hit him first. It was "self defense." When I brought up that he had me by the throat he completely denied that it he did that. In his account, I just smacked him in the face for no reason. 

He has what I call the "honeymoon" stage that lasts 24-48 hours where he is SOOO sorry and he was wrong. When the time is up he's done talking about it and I should be too.

When I bring up the violence, he says "yeah yeah yeah you're the victim" with an eye roll.

And then he will turn it around on me talking to that guy 4+ years ago and other stuff I've done, all over 2 years ago. 

I haven't so much as said hello to a man my age in like 2 years so he has nothing to bring up from the recent past.

It's ok for him to bring up things I've done wrong all the time, but he never wants to talk about the violence. Sometimes I get, "I was wrong. Violence is the tool of the incompetent. I'll think of other ways to deal with you." but that's about as much remorse as I see outside of the "honeymoon" phase.

Anytime I talk about how he needs to change, he gets angry and just turns it around on me. I always get a long list of things wrong with me until I feel worthless and break down in tears. He will throw in enough compliments so he can say he's a good husband who is only trying to help me become better. When I cry over all the negative things he says and I'm not elated about the one positive thing I get "I just said something beautiful about you and you are ruining it. You never appreciate anything." If someone spends 30 minutes berating you, and then says one thing nice (even if it's really nice and something deep - not "you have nice hair") it's hard to be happy about the compliment. Maybe it's just me.

I never had a high self esteem to begin with. I have always struggled with depression. But I have never been this low. I can't even remember the last time I was happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good lord, jj. You are an abuse victim.

Nothing more needs to be discussed. 

Read everything you can about abuse - starting with Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men - and figure out why you ACCEPT abuse.

And find - and start attending - a psychologist for your low self esteem - now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are you still living with your husband?


What you did not Facebook does not warrant his reaction. It's ok for a person to have acquaintances of the opposite sex. The way to handle it is for spouses to share their passwords so that each have access to the other's account.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

thejjones said:


> He did get into a car accident and have a head injury right around the time we met. It was fairly severe and he was hospitalized for it. I don't know if that made things worse or not because I barely knew him before the accident.


TJ, perhaps the head injury did make him worse. That seems unlikely to be the primary cause, however, given that his parents say his anger issues and lack of impulse control began in his early teens -- which is when BPD traits typically start.



> He would say that I am that person you are describing. He says that I need to quit "acting like a victim and take accountability for our fights."


Perhaps he is correct. Yet, if what you've described here is accurate, it seems more likely that he is simply projecting his own fears and thoughts onto you. Because a BPDer has the emotional development of a young child, his ego defenses are fully reliant on the defenses available to children. These include projection, denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums. Of these primitive defenses, a BPDer typically relies most heavily on projection. 

Because projection occurs entirely in the subconscious, the conscious mind is able to be fully convinced that the projected feelings/thoughts are actually coming from you. The beauty of projection, then, is that it is entirely _guilt free_ -- because the BPDer believes the nonsense that is coming out of his mouth. And, a week later when he is claiming exactly the opposite to be true, he will believe that just as firmly also.

Due to this guilt-free attribute, a BPDer will rely most heavily on projection and typically will not lie unless it is absolutely unavoidable (as when he is cornered and feels he has to lie his way out). This heavy reliance on projection is the main reason that, when you suspect your spouse has strong BPD traits, the common wisdom is to NOT tell your BPDer spouse that you suspect BPD. If he really does have strong BPD traits, he almost certainly will immediately project the accusation back onto you -- with the result that he will be absolutely convinced YOU are the one having strong BPD traits.



> I am also extremely immature according to him and my mental development stopped at 17.


Well, if he is correct about that and he is a BPDer, that would mean your emotional development still far exceeds his. As I noted earlier, a BPDer typically experienced a childhood trauma that froze his emotional development at the level of a 4 year old. This is why BPDers are unstable and lack control over their impulses, just like young children do.



> He also CONSTANTLY brings up everything I've ever done wrong in our relationship.


If he is a BPDer, that behavior is to be expected. It is called "kitchen sinking" because, while you're trying to discuss a single issue, the BPDer will bring up everything except the kitchen sink. This is done due to his great need to continually "validate" his false self image of always being "The Victim." 

Toward that end, a BPDer keeps a list of every mistake and infraction you ever made (real or imagined). He will pull that entire list out every time you try to reach a compromise or discuss an issue -- no matter how small the issue. My exW, for example, was convinced that I was making up a new lie every week. Yet, when I would ask her to give an example of such a lie, she always would talk about something that occurred years earlier at the beginning of our relationship. At the end of our 15 year marriage, she was using examples that supposedly occurred 16 years earlier.

Because a BPDer has such a fragile self image that he doesn't know who he is, he will expend enormous amounts of energy and time trying to validate that false self image. It is the only shred of an ego that he has to hold onto. The result is that it usually is impossible to sit down and reach agreement with him on any sensitive matter. The BPDer is not interested in reaching a compromise or an agreement. Instead, he only wants to create drama so as to support his false view of himself as "The Victim."



> He hit me so hard in the face that we thought my nose was broken (luckily it wasn't). I had two black eyes for over a week.


If your H is a BPDer, you are at far more risk than a woman living with a narcissist or a sociopath. BPDers typically are filled with enormous anger and distrust that are carried from early childhood. And, whereas narcissists and sociopaths are emotionally stable, BPDers are not. Hence, this combination of distrust, enormous anger, and instability is a dangerous mix. 

Essentially, if he is a BPDer, you are living with a man who has the emotional development of a four year old -- combined with the intelligence, cunning, and body strength of a full grown man. Importantly, the problem is NOT that BPDers are bad people. Generally, they are not bad. Rather, the problem is they are unstable.

The result, as many studies have shown, is that physical spousal abuse is strongly associated with BPD. A 1993 Canadian study, for example, found that nearly all spousal batterers have personality disorders and about half of them have BPD. See the results summarized by therapist Roger Melton at When-Mr-Right-Turns-Out-To-Be-Mr-Wrong.



> He has what I call the "honeymoon" stage that lasts 24-48 hours where he is SOOO sorry and he was wrong.


On BPD websites targeted to the abused partners, these brief periods are usually called "moments of clarity." My BPDer exW had perhaps six of these moments during our 15 year marriage. They only occurred when she had done something so terrible that I was furious and she greatly feared I would abandon her. As with your H, her moments of clarity never lasted beyond two days -- and usually were not that long.



> When the time is up he's done talking about it and I should be too.


My exW is the same way. When she had a temper tantrum, it typically lasted 3 to 5 hours and then, when it was over, she was ready to jump into bed and make love to me. In contrast, I would take several days -- at least -- to recover from the outpouring of venom and acid I had witnessed. BPDers are able to switch instantly like that -- as though they had flipped a switch in their minds -- because their egos are so weak they cannot tolerate ambiguities, strong mixed feelings, uncertainties, or other grey areas of interpersonal relationships. They therefore rely heavily on black-white thinking, wherein you are perceived as "all bad" for a while and then -- in ten seconds -- he will start perceiving of you as "all good."


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Uptown, is it a BPD trait to say really mean things and then later claim he "didn't mean it" or was just really angry?

We all say mean things in anger once in a while. But with him it happens quite often. He will say horrible things about me - Like I'm a wh*re because I had a more than acceptable number of sexual partners before we met or my favorite: I enjoyed/deserved being molested as a child.

Then later on he will say sorry, he didn't mean it, he was just angry at me. 

Another excuse is I was hurting him first. 

For example I told him I really hate woodworking when we were building things for our home. He wanted to build everything (TV stand, shelves, etc) ourselves instead of buying pre-made stuff. I hate working with tools and wood, and he was trying to get me to spend a lot of my free time doing it. I told him I hated it and wanted to buy the things we needed and then he responded that the only thing I liked was "being a slvt." 

Then later, he said that he called me that because I was hurting him by not acknowledging his hard work on our home and not wanting to participate.

What do you think? Or is this just considered a lack of impulse control?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

thejjones said:


> Uptown, is it a BPD trait to say really mean things and then later claim he "didn't mean it" or was just really angry? ...Another excuse is I was hurting him first.


TJ, yes, it is characteristic of BPDers to refuse to take responsibility for their own mistakes and bad behavior. Usually, they will refuse to acknowledge doing anything wrong. And on those occasions when they do apologize, they will extend the apology with one hand and take it away with the other. That is, they will say they are sorry they hurt your feelings and, in the next breath, say "but you provoked me" or "I was trying to hurt you only because you had already hurt my feelings." 

Indeed, because BPDers cannot trust others, it is not uncommon for a BPDer to preemptively hurt your feelings because he is so absolutely convinced you are about to abandon him. But, again, the thing driving the mean behavior is one of two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. BPDers generally do not get pleasure in simply hurting people (as narcissists and sociopaths do).



> I told him I hated it and wanted to buy the things we needed and then he responded that the only thing I liked was "being a slvt." Then later, he said that he called me that because I was hurting him by not acknowledging his hard work on our home and not wanting to participate.


Unlike narcissists and sociopaths, a BPDer typically does not say vindictive, mean things for the sole purpose of hurting you. Instead, BPDers usually are very vindictive and mean in response to a fear that has been triggered in them. That is, they are reacting -- in a very childish manner -- to an internal fear.

In this case, your H is saying that he felt your refusal to participate indicated you did not value all the hard work he was putting into the project. If he has strong BPD traits, this distorted perception of your intentions would be very painful to him because a BPDer has low self esteem and is filled with self loathing. 

He therefore likely would perceive your "lack of appreciation and respect" as a threat to his abandonment fear (i.e., you don't need to keep him around because you can easily replace his contribution by simply going online to order ready-made furniture). Of course, this is a distorted view of your true intention (to let him finish it by himself). Such distorted perceptions arise from the BPDer's unregulated, intense feelings which cloud and color his judgment. This is why BPD is said to constitute a "thought distortion."



> We all say mean things in anger once in a while. But with him it happens quite often.


Yes, as I noted earlier, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits. BPDers therefore differ from the rest of us only in degree, not in kind. Hence, before you graduated high school, you already had experienced so many thought distortions that you knew you could not trust your own judgment when experiencing intense feelings. 

Most other healthy adults quickly learned this lesson also. This is why we "Nons" (nonBPDers) try to keep our mouths shut until we have time to cool down. And this is why we try to wait a year or two before buying the engagement ring. We all realize that intense feelings distort our perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations.



> What do you think? Or is this just considered a lack of impulse control?


I think that the vindictive, childish behavior you describe is a BPD trait. Yet, even if it were simply "a lack of impulse control" -- as you say -- it still would be called a BPD trait. Indeed, "lack of impulse control" is one of the nine defining traits that are used in diagnosing BPD.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thejjones said:


> Uptown, is it a BPD trait to say really mean things and then later claim he "didn't mean it" or was just really angry?


This is also something that abusive people who do not have BPD do. It comes not from having BPD, but from having the traits of a person who uses abuse to control another person.

Be very careful of trying to diagnose him. Professionals have difficulties in diagnosing these things. What should matter to you is your mental and physical safety. You are not safe with your husband.

You need to get away from him and have no contact at all with him.

I am saying this out of having a lot of empathy and concern for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thejjones said:


> He will say I'm a wh*re because I had a more than acceptable number of sexual partners before we met or my favorite: I enjoyed/deserved being molested as a child.
> 
> he responded that the only thing I liked was "being a slvt."
> 
> Then later, he said that he called me that because I was hurting him


IMO, it doesn't matter if he is BPD or not. What matters is if he is hurting you.

jj, if he had said those things when you were dating, would you have continued dating him?

Of course not. (Or I hope not!) This means that HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.

He didn't treat you that way before because he had to win you. 

Once he won you, he felt free to let loose and show you his true self.

Is there a woman in your life who you trust? If so, tell her what he says to you and see what they think. I can tell you ONE thing - there's not a single woman out there who would accept it and walk into that on purpose. What does that mean? It means you ARE an abuse victim because you can't even see it.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

turnera said:


> TMO, it doesn't matter if he is BPD or not. What matters is if he is hurting you.


Turnera, your comment is excellent advice for most people leaving a very abusive relationship. Most people have reasonably strong personal boundaries and thus are capable of walking away from such toxic marriages and immediately filing for divorce. 

Those folks, however, rarely will seek your advice because they simply walk away and don't look back. They don't end up here on a public forum pouring their hearts out about how difficult it is for them to leave a spouse who is battering and choking them. Yet, when a woman has tolerated that physical and mental abuse for three years and is still reluctant to divorce her abusive H, it can be very important for her to understand what motivates his strange behavior. 

One reason is the high likelihood that any woman willingly tolerating such abuse for three years has strong codependency traits. This means that TJ likely has (as I did) weak personal boundaries making it difficult for her to see where her own problems stop and her H's problems begin. Hence, she has difficulty seeing her own contribution to the toxicity without first understanding and subtracting out the contribution made by her H. Absent that understanding, she will continue to misperceive her role as "just trying to help" instead of seeing herself as the enabler she was (and that I was for 15 years).

Second, as codependents, TJ and I are caregivers to a fault. Our problem is not that we want to help others. Rather, it is our willingness to keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so -- and even when our efforts are counterproductive. We do this because our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the individuals we already are).

Hence, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us. That idea is against our family values, our religion -- indeed, is against every fiber of our being. There is no way we will abandon a sick loved one. Yet, if you can explain to us how we are not really helping -- but are, in fact, harming the loved one with our enabling behavior -- you can free us of the guilt and sense of obligation that keeps us mired in the toxic relationship.

Third, when our partners have strong BPD traits, we codependents find that such relationships are highly addictive. This is so because the hateful, spiteful periods are intermixed with wonderful, ecstatic periods, during which we are adored and regarded as white knights who can fix anything (a codependent's notion of heaven). This bouncing back and forth between enraptured highs and painful withdrawals is very similar to the behavior of people addicted to heroine, alcohol, and gambling. Hence, telling us to "simply walk away" is as useful as telling a drunk to simply toss his bottle away.

Fourth, in the unlikely event that we codependents would walk away from the abusive spouse -- as TJ did seven months ago when moving in with her mother -- there is a good chance we will eventually take that spouse back when the love bombing and false promises resume. Or, even if we don't take the abuser back, we are at great risk of throwing ourselves into the arms of another partner just like the one we left -- if we do not take time to learn how to spot the BPD red flags. 

Because we are caregivers to a fault, we are strongly attracted to anyone projecting a strong sense of vulnerability. For us, it is as attractive as catnip is to cats. And BPDers, forever thinking of themselves as victims, are masters at projecting vulnerability. I have a friend, for example, who is now dating the third woman (in a row) who exhibits emotional instability and other strong BPD traits.

These four considerations imply that it can be extremely difficult to persuade a codependent person to stay away from a toxic relationship. And this is especially true when her spouse has strong BPD traits. Hence, the very first thing I encourage a physically battered woman like TJ to do -- when she is reluctant to divorce her abuser -- is to consult with a psychologist to learn what it is she is dealing with. And I also suggest that she read about BPD traits so she is able to recognize any warning signs that may be occurring. 

If TJ's husband actually is a BPDer, this knowledge will give her several important insights: (a) her H's dysfunctional behavior likely originated in childhood and thus is beyond her ability to fix, (b) her efforts to comfort and calm him are counter-productive because they prevent him from facing his own issues and learning how to control them, and (c) this "enabling" behavior harms him by allowing him to continue acting like a child and getting away with it. Once a codependent woman realizes that she is harming her sick loved one, she is freed from the feelings of obligation and guilt that were tying her to the toxic marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Uptown said:


> Turnera, your comment is excellent advice for most people leaving a very abusive relationship. Most people have reasonably strong personal boundaries and thus are capable of walking away from such toxic marriages and immediately filing for divorce.
> 
> Those folks, however, rarely will seek your advice because they simply walk away and don't look back. They don't end up here on a public forum pouring their hearts out about how difficult it is for them to leave a spouse who is battering and choking them. Yet, when a woman has tolerated that physical and mental abuse for three years and is still reluctant to divorce her abusive H, it can be very important for her to understand what motivates his strange behavior.
> 
> One reason is the high likelihood that any woman willingly tolerating such abuse for three years has strong codependency traits.


I disagree. There's time for that reflection later. IMO, the most important thoughts right now are: do I need to get away from this? and how do I do that?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

thejjones, Uptown has just incredible amounts of totally fascinating information. If you were your abusive husband, rather than his punching bag, I would urge you to read everything Uptown has posted every day, seek counseling to learn how not-to behave towards his wife, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

But you're not the abuser. You're the one being abused.

This is your thread, about your relationship.

You need to get out of the situation you find yourself in. You don't need to understand whether or not your husband is BPD, Bh.D, or full of B.S. You don't need to understand why he accuses you of being the problem. You need to get away from this guy. If those questions are still bugging you a few months after you escape, address them in therapy.

I urge you to seek counseling with someone who can help you build up your self esteem, teach you how to set boundaries in your relationships, and give you a good handle on what kind of conduct is normal for a healthy relationship.

In the mean time, I recommend that you initiate divorce proceedings. Don't wait on your husband to file. Do it yourself. Several formerly-abused women have taken the time to post their experiences in some detail. Learn from their mistakes, and from their escapes. I believe EleGirl (correctly) pointed out that a woman is most likely to be killed by an abusive spouse / partner. DON'T BE THAT WOMAN.

You need to get away from this guy, NOW. 

I very much doubt that your "stuff" is worth the effort it will take to retrieve it. Go home and spend time with your Mom. Help your Dad around the house. Be anywhere in the world except within arms reach of the piece of sh!t you are married to. Buying you a bracelet you liked 8 months after the fact does not come anywhere close to balancing the scales of 2 black eyes.

If you don't get out of this situation, you may not live to regret it.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

@thejjones

I HIT my wife. I slapped her with as much force as I can. She is very lucky I did not break her face.

We been married close to 9 years now. Have two kids and she said/did something that made me snap.

I can't remember when I go as angry as I did that night. I still hate that night but to be honest I am very thankful for it as well.

The following week saw both of us going for counselling.

My therapist, god bless her helped me understand the reason behind my snapping so violently.

Irrespective of all that my wife had done in the past leading to my snapping....the violence is completely my fault.

There are no two ways about it.

Anyone who causes physical injury on the other has only himself to blame.

Your husband will not change because he does not think this way. He is always an innocent man in his view. Until he understands that he is not the center of the universe....he will not change.

Leave him. You are still young and thankfully there are no kids in this equation.

Would you be willing to leave your kids once they come with a man who spits at a stranger (the car incident you mentioned earlier).


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

turnera said:


> I disagree. There's time for that reflection later.


It is "later" already. The time for "reflection" is now. TJ left her H seven months ago and has been living with her mother. At issue, then, is not whether she should leave for her own protection. She's already done that. Rather, at issue is whether she should go ahead and divorce her H instead of waiting for him to get better so she might eventually return to him. 

Like you and every other respondent, I believe the answer to that question is obvious. It is not obvious to TJ, however, because she has been in such a state of confusion -- as is typical for anyone who has been living for several years with a person having strong BPD or NPD traits, or perhaps some other disorder. This crazymaking effect is so well known that we ex-partners have given it a name: "gaslighting." This is why TJ says "I was really starting to think it was my fault" and "I feel less crazy now."

And this is why TJ is trying to figure out what went wrong in her marriage. She has such low personal boundaries -- as I once did -- that she cannot tell the difference between her own issues and those of her H. She is trying to better understand where her issues stop and those of her H begin. This is evident in her statement, "One last thing before we all move on from this topic. I hear all the time how I'm so horrible. So why not divorce if I'm literally the worst woman on the planet?"



> IMO, the most important thoughts right now are: do I need to get away from this? and how do I do that?


No, TJ made those decisions -- correctly -- seven months ago. In her very first post in this thread, she explains that she left seven months ago because she knew it was unsafe to be around a man who had blackened her eyes and choked her. The issue at this point is whether she should go ahead and divorce him or try to get him into counseling so he can change his ways. 

To answer that question, I've encouraged TJ to see a psychologist to find out exactly what it is she is dealing with. (If it is BPD, counseling almost certainly will be totally useless for the H.) And, to protect herself from repeating her mistake with another man, I've encouraged her to learn how to spot the warning signs for BPD. She accomplishes little if she leaves this abuser only to run right into the arms of another man just like him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry, I forgot she'd already left.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

It saddens me that you attempted boundaries and were so violently man handled in response to your VERY appropriate reasonable boundaries. 

You have a person hood, given to you and to you alone. For this man to so violently violate your reasonable boundary is horrible. Keep traveling towards calm resolutions and calm communications in your life and those who cannot maintain calm intelligent, reasonable interactions can be shut out. I am SO SORRY for his violent choices toward you. 

My husband and I have had to learn to de-escalate our conflicts, but it started with me putting HIM out of the house for being extremely intimidating and scary. He has been in intensive therapy for over two months and I have seen big changes, but our situation was not near as severe as yours. It was severe enough that I had to play hardball in order to create safe environment around our son, but the severity you are describing here would be a deal breaker for me. Because you don't have kids... I would divorce him now instead of after them AND you CAN divorce him. Talk to an attorney. This guy may say he will not let you out, but I've got news for him, when abuse is this level (I hope you have evidence) I think you may find the law on your side Darlin, not his. 

I have told my husband I WILL use the law when and if necessary and not bat an eye. Zero tolerance going forward. Make SURE you know where your domestic violence advocate is for your area since they can put you in confidential housing if he escalates. 

I have a former boss married to a woman who's ex was a Navy Seal who had threatened to kill her because she left. She thought it was over and was walking home one day not worried when he jumped out of the bushes at her right in front of her parents house and tried to kill her right there, when her brother stepped out on the front porch and shot him dead. So, it does happen. I HOPE your husband is not one of those.. Prepare as if he is... have those "hide away" numbers on your person at all times as well as the cops.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

thejjones said:


> Uptown, is it a BPD trait to say really mean things and then later claim he "didn't mean it" or was just really angry?
> 
> What do you think? Or is this just considered a lack of impulse control?


Here is what stands out to me. You are trying to analyze your husband's motivation(s) for why he behaves as he does. You want to put a label on his behavior.

What if you label it? Will that give you closure? Will you feel better about yourself? 

I assure you, what he does will not make sense to you. Even if it does, what do you gain from that understanding?

You need to focus on why you tolerated this abuse. This is about you, not him. 

You need professional help. You need to understand why you allowed someone to abuse you to this extent. And you need to understand why you tolerated abuse for so long.

Thus, you won't get involved with another disordered person.

Invest in yourself. Quit focusing on him. You have this one precious life to live.

Learn to live it sanely. And learn why you haven't for so long.

Seriously.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Have you ever called the cops on him?


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Here is what stands out to me. You are trying to analyze your husband's motivation(s) for why he behaves as he does. You want to put a label on his behavior.
> 
> What if you label it? Will that give you closure? Will you feel better about yourself?


I think the reason I'm trying to understand is to see if I can predict his behavior. Are these just outbursts, or when he says he is going to murder my father is he serious? Will he really put naked pictures of me on the internet and send them to every potential employer like he has threatened?

It also helps me to feel like maybe this isn't all my fault. I've heard nothing but that for the past few years. It takes a toll.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Have you ever called the cops on him?


Yes once. The first time he attacked me.

He choked me but did not leave any visible marks. The cops just rolled their eyes and I overheard them laughing and one called me crazy. 

They were all buddy buddy with my husband. He knows a lot of cops. He didn't know those two specifically but I'm sure he name dropped. His uncle is a cop in the area.

We lived in a rough neighborhood at the time so I think they were expecting me to be half dead when they got there. I'm guessing they saw a lot of bad stuff so when they showed up and I was just crying but uninjured (in their eyes) they felt it was a waste of their time.

I didn't really feel like I was going to get any help after that so I gave up. I was 22 and traumatized and felt totally alone.

Another time he threatened me with a knife in an alley. He pulled it aside and hid it as a man walked by. I screamed out for help and he told the man I was mentally ill.

The man just shrugged and walked away.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Girl.... get out... this kid thinks he is above the law and has NO reason to change. Can you move to another town?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have a restraining order against him?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

thejjones said:


> I think the reason I'm trying to understand is to see if I can predict his behavior. Are these just outbursts, or when he says he is going to murder my father is he serious? Will he really put naked pictures of me on the internet and send them to every potential employer like he has threatened?
> 
> It also helps me to feel like maybe this isn't all my fault. I've heard nothing but that for the past few years. It takes a toll.


All threats should be taken seriously given his history.

I think you need to go to the authorities to give them your history of abuse & document all of his threats just in case he makes good on them. Follow it up with a restraining order.

Does he have a firearm?

He is a monster. He doesn't love you. He only wants to control you.


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## thejjones (Apr 9, 2014)

Emerald said:


> All threats should be taken seriously given his history.
> 
> I think you need to go to the authorities to give them your history of abuse & document all of his threats just in case he makes good on them. Follow it up with a restraining order.
> 
> ...


He does not have a gun, at least not to my knowledge.

I consulted someone in law enforcement informally and he said they can't do anything about the pictures and some other stuff he has threatened. It is not illegal to put pictures on the internet. I wish I had never taken them but he talked me into it. I never knew my own husband would use naked pics we took in private against me.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

thejjones said:


> He does not have a gun, at least not to my knowledge.
> 
> I consulted someone in law enforcement informally and he said they can't do anything about the pictures and some other stuff he has threatened. It is not illegal to put pictures on the internet. I wish I had never taken them but he talked me into it. I never knew my own husband would use naked pics we took in private against me.


Okay then.

I will bow out of this thread with prayers for your safety.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

thejjones said:


> He does not have a gun, at least not to my knowledge.
> 
> I consulted someone in law enforcement informally and he said they can't do anything about the pictures and some other stuff he has threatened. It is not illegal to put pictures on the internet. I wish I had never taken them but he talked me into it. I never knew my own husband would use naked pics we took in private against me.


Its called leverage. Anything can be used as leverage for control. Destroy the pictures you destroy his leverage. Information can be leverage, fear, financial dependence, etc... Systematically dismantel his various leverages on you. Listen to his threats and it will give you the list of leverages he uses to control you. Its time to get very smart. Consult an attorney , they can help you do this through the law. PM me and I will help you piece it together and get out safely.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

thejjones said:


> I think the reason I'm trying to understand is to see if I can predict his behavior.


Here's the thing: trying to "understand" this bum so you can "predict" his behavior means you are desperately scrambling to find ways to control an uncontrollable situation.

And here is the blunt, bottom-line truth: You are so codependent, you cannot respond to a single post without talking about what HE does, how HE thinks, how HE behaves.

Why? Because you are scared to death to face the reality of the situation. After all, as long as you are focused on him, you don't have to muster up the guts to break free and learn to live on your own.

So here is my challenge to you: List three things you really like about yourself. List three things you want to accomplish with your life.

And keep the a$$wipe you're married to out of the response.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thejjones said:


> I think the reason I'm trying to understand is to see if I can predict his behavior. Are these just outbursts, or when he says he is going to murder my father is he serious? Will he really put naked pictures of me on the internet and send them to every potential employer like he has threatened?.


Always take a person at their word when they threaten violence. 

How long ago did he make those threats? Did you call the police and let them know that the about the threats? 

Find out the laws in your state and federal law about spreading around naked pictures of a person who does not agree to have such pictures distributed. Check the laws. Send him a letter, preferably through an attorney warning him of the action that you will take if he does this. The letter establishes your strong objection to him distributing personal photos of you. 

If you can, get your hands on those photos. Your attorney might be able to help you do that. Do you know where he keeps the photos?



thejjones said:


> It also helps me to feel like maybe this isn't all my fault. I've heard nothing but that for the past few years. It takes a toll.


Stop internalizing the crap that comes out of his mouth. It's all about him.

Are you still talking to him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thejjones said:


> He does not have a gun, at least not to my knowledge.
> 
> I consulted someone in law enforcement informally and he said they can't do anything about the pictures and some other stuff he has threatened. It is not illegal to put pictures on the internet. I wish I had never taken them but he talked me into it. I never knew my own husband would use naked pics we took in private against me.


What state do you live in? It is illegal in some states to post naked pictures of a person who does not consent... and to distribute them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok I'm doing some reading on this.

It's called "revenge porn," and it's legal in every state but California and New Jersey.

More is covered in this article.

Should posting a nude photo of an ex online be a felony or protected under the 1st Amendment? | Star Tribune


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## ShameLessLover (Nov 5, 2013)

Thejjones,
I wanted to chip-in here. I think it is important to understand the issues with your husband while planning to quit safely. It would give clarity to whatever decision you take. As uptown has mentioned in his posts, your H does show BPD traits. Only one thing does not make sense, I would expect him to act like he is the best thing ever happened to you in between his rage/tantrums/4yr-old-type-behaviour. Again, I am not an expert, but learning about BPD has answered many questions I had in my life, which made zero sense before and I was going crazy. 

Well, I still go crazy but knowing that it's not me who is making my W do crazy stuff- is empowering. Knowing that - the only person whom I can change is me and not her -helps keep me sane. I am not a GOD who can fix her. So sulk it up or leave. I have a reason (10 mo old baby), at least for short-term, to be in my marriage - so I am sulking it up. Look at the bright side of the mess you are in - you do not have children. Trust me - it would be 10 times messier. I think you are scared of husband - but at the bright side you are scared ONLY for yourself. If you had an infant, you would be scared for that little one too. So, please do your study what you are dealing with and try to get out safely. I will also take all his comments/tantrums seriously. They can do anything to get you back if you abandon (or even if they feel that you are abandoning). 

Knowing about your husband's issue would sure help in future relationships. Like Uptown commented, We caregivers are super attracted to BPDers. If I knew about BPD before, I would not have married my current wife. There were big red flags from the start. One simple example, If she called me, and if I missed it, she would keep calling me like 50 times. She will have this instant fear that I am with some another woman. She will be super angry and give me half an hour lecture. I will be like WTF and we would not talk for a 1-2 days. I found it stupid back then but friends/family thought that she just loves me very much.

It's not about labelling someone. It's about finding answers to the questions. It's about finding peace- Finding happiness. It's about knowing that we are not god and we can not fix others. It's about knowing that the only person we can change is ourselves.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Shameless, I agree with everything you wrote. That was my experience and that of hundreds of ex-partners-of-BPDers with whom I've communicated over the past seven years.



ShameLessLover said:


> Only one thing does not make sense, I would expect him to act like he is the best thing ever happened to you in between his rage/tantrums/4yr-old-type-behaviour.


You are correct. The key feature of BPD behavior is emotional instability which would be evident in a recurrent pattern of push-you-away (by creating fights over nothing) and pull-you-back (by acting "like he is the best thing ever happened to you"). Hence, if TJ is not seeing the sweetness and caring phase (i.e., the up side of the roller coaster ride), she is NOT seeing strong BPD traits. Instead, the intense physical and verbal abuse likely would be narcissistic or sociopathic in nature, not BPD. As Elegirl correctly stated, physical abuse can be caused by disorders other than BPD. 

Whereas BPDers are unstable, narcissists and sociopaths are not. Indeed, of the ten PDs, BPD is the only one characterized by instability. This is why the European diagnostic manual (the ICD) calls BPD the "Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder." An important issue, then, is whether TJ is describing such pull-you-back behavior. The closest she gets to that is in post #35 where she writes:He can be so sweet and caring. He is the kind of man that I can mention liking a bracelet I see online and he remembers and buys it for me for my birthday 8 months later (this actually happened). In other words, he listens. He cares. He is faithful. He has a lot of qualities that make him a great husband. ​


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Shameless, I agree with everything you wrote. That was my experience and that of hundreds of ex-partners-of-BPDers with whom I've communicated over the past seven years.
> 
> You are correct. The key feature of BPD behavior is emotional instability which would be evident in a recurrent pattern of push-you-away (by creating fights over nothing) and pull-you-back (by acting "like he is the best thing ever happened to you"). Hence, if TJ is not seeing the sweetness and caring phase (i.e., the up side of the roller coaster ride), she is NOT seeing strong BPD traits. Instead, the intense physical and verbal abuse likely would be narcissistic or sociopathic in nature, not BPD. As Elegirl correctly stated, physical abuse can be caused by disorders other than BPD.
> 
> Whereas BPDers are unstable, narcissists and sociopaths are not. Indeed, of the ten PDs, BPD is the only one characterized by instability. This is why the European diagnostic manual (the ICD) calls BPD the "Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder." An important issue, then, is whether TJ is describing such pull-you-back behavior. The closest she gets to that is in post #35 where she writes:He can be so sweet and caring. He is the kind of man that I can mention liking a bracelet I see online and he remembers and buys it for me for my birthday 8 months later (this actually happened). In other words, he listens. He cares. He is faithful. He has a lot of qualities that make him a great husband. ​


The intent behind that caring is important to piece together....


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