# Newbie-where is my courage



## brokenfool (Sep 23, 2011)

I have been lurking here for about 2 months and have taken some advice. I am reaching one of those pivotal moments and am truly afraid. Here is my story (short and sweet). WW was having an EA via facebook and meetings. She told me about her "friend" as she was helping him with his Marital problems and I was either too naive or stupid to recognize the signs (texting and phone late night, GNO to 3am etc.etc)
I had the gut feeling something was not right but said nothing.
She suggested MC to work on our "little issues" and then dday. I was away on business and she had our kids sleep at her mothers house (she has never done that before). I checked phone records and she was called at 3am 7am and 11am and based on the legnth of the calls they spoke (7am call went to voicemail), I confronted her in MC and she said it was her friend "insert girls name here". I called that number and of coarse a male answered and also has a male voicemail (she does not know I called the number).
She has vagualy suggested that she has "made some mistakes" and I believe she has ended the affair and is being very attentive to me and remorseful but we have not talked about the affair. She continually asks if I am "mad at her" of which I lie and say no, as I am trying to keep my cool and do the whole 180 thing.
My questiion is this. I NEED TO KNOW. However, I cannot have a conversation about it. Would it be inappropriate to ask her to write me a letter asking in full detail what her "mistakes" were. I feel if we talk about it she will break down and I will end up comforting her, which I do not want to do. Any suggestions.

Sorry, it wasn't as short as I intended.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Do you want to share her? If no then take the appropriate action. If yes then keep on with what you are doing. Ea's when given enough time become PA's. Do you have access to her FB? Gather what you need and confront.


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## brokenfool (Sep 23, 2011)

Joe,

I should clarify. She was confronted on the EA in MC and NC was established., but I believe it went PA prior to D-day. That is the part I do not know. But the question again is, Can I ask her to write a letter to me giving me full disclosure and transparency or is this better done face to face.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

brokenfool said:


> Joe,
> 
> I should clarify. She was confronted on the EA in MC and NC was established., but I believe it went PA prior to D-day. That is the part I do not know. But the question again is, Can I ask her to write a letter to me giving me full disclosure and transparency or is this better done face to face.


I'm a face to face kind of guy so..... There has to be truth for a recovery to work. I know it's tough but "tickle truth" will kill any chance you have. I personally had to know everything. I don't think I would have gotten all of it from her, I found alot through digging through the PC and her memory card on her Blackberry. I'm sure I know things she doesn't think I know. If you love her and want to stay then find out. If you want to leave it doesn't matter. Remember, for every one thing she tells you there are 3 other things she is not. Good luck.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Do not sweep this under the carpet. I did and it happened again. blow this out of the water and address this issue head on.

Gather your evidence and confront her and talk. Talk about the consequences and the heavy lift she will need to help you heal.

Talk about what lead up to the EA and why boundries were crossed. learn from this, the both of you. Understand the dynamics of her EA by bring it all out on the table in the hopes of preventing it again.

If you and *her* do not open this can of worms, I see no way in preventing it from happening again years from now, trust me!

If she can not open up she will find it easier the next time around with same OM are evn a different OM. SO force the issue by confronting her with the black and white proof in hand.

Some proof that will bring this matter to the light of day a figuretively slap the the face of reality for her.

I have been down this road and if new boundries are to be established then you both need to see that this will not go away years down the road.

In my case the 1st A my WW had I simply told her I knew what was going on and it had to stop. Thats all that was said, nothing more from her and nothing more from me. Bam, 5 years later she was at it again. Nothing was learned, no consequences, nothing what so ever to prevent it from happening again.

I'm not talking about a full blown life changing event , but an understanding of what went on, why and how to prevent so the both of you can have a long and healthy marriage.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You must confront her. My suggestion is to wait till you are alone. Get face to face with her. Look her in the eye and tell her that know she had sex with this "friend". If she looks away when she denies (they always do at first till you produce evidence) you know she is guilty. Tell her that you have a set up a polygraph test for her. You need to man up and get up in her grill. She will confess, then you can decide whether its worth staying or not. Right now you are still just her cuckold, until you reclaim your place.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

She will do this as long as you allow her. Why not if there are no consequences?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

brokenfool said:


> WW was having an EA via facebook and *meetings*. She told me about her "friend" as she was helping him with his Marital problems and I was either too naive or stupid to recognize the signs (texting and phone late night, *GNO to 3am *etc.etc)
> I had the gut feeling something was not right but said nothing.
> She suggested MC to work on our "little issues" and then dday. *I was away on business and she had our kids sleep at her mothers house* (she has never done that before). I checked phone records and she was called at 3am 7am and 11am and based on the legnth of the calls they spoke (7am call went to voicemail), I confronted her in MC and she said it was her friend "insert girls name here". I called that number and of coarse a male answered and also has a male voicemail (she does not know I called the number).





brokenfool said:


> Joe,
> 
> I should clarify. She was confronted on the EA in MC and NC was established., *but I believe it went PA prior to D-day.* That is the part I do not know. But the question again is, Can I ask her to write a letter to me giving me full disclosure and transparency or is this better done face to face.


There is no way this didn't go full on PA. You don't meet or have GNO till 3am to have an EA. I'm not sure about the time line in your post, but if that time you were out of town and she sent the kids to stay her mothers was post D Day, unless you know of another explanation, I'd bet they were together then to. 

You've got to confront this. You've got to know the full extent of it before you can begin reconciliation. She had to take full ownership of what she's done before she can begin reconciliation and she even start to take ownership if she hasn't even admitted it. MC and all the other efforts before you know the full truth are wasted effort. Get the truth, got to a polygraph if you have to, but you've got to get to the bottom.


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## Hijo (Sep 1, 2011)

Broken: You need to go full 180 on her. It seems counterintuitive, but until she is completely out of the fog AND has given you full disclosure and transparency, anything else is a complete waste of time.

You also need to get the full blown surveillance package going.

VAR in the car/home, keylogger on her PC to get her passwords, spy package on her phone, check and recheck all the phone logs.

Do not force a second D-DAY until you have enough evidence to blow her out of her fog, and don't reveal your methods or sources.

I see no benefit from a polygraph, I really don't know why you keep putting that out there sigma. no offense.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Stop being a Pu$$y. Start using some of the advise your getting from this forum. Time to man up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NURSE51 (Sep 22, 2011)

brokenfool said:


> I have been lurking here for about 2 months and have taken some advice. I am reaching one of those pivotal moments and am truly afraid. Here is my story (short and sweet). WW was having an EA via facebook and meetings. She told me about her "friend" as she was helping him with his Marital problems and I was either too naive or stupid to recognize the signs (texting and phone late night, GNO to 3am etc.etc)
> I had the gut feeling something was not right but said nothing.
> She suggested MC to work on our "little issues" and then dday. I was away on business and she had our kids sleep at her mothers house (she has never done that before). I checked phone records and she was called at 3am 7am and 11am and based on the legnth of the calls they spoke (7am call went to voicemail), I confronted her in MC and she said it was her friend "insert girls name here". I called that number and of coarse a male answered and also has a male voicemail (she does not know I called the number).
> She has vagualy suggested that she has "made some mistakes" and I believe she has ended the affair and is being very attentive to me and remorseful but we have not talked about the affair. She continually asks if I am "mad at her" of which I lie and say no, as I am trying to keep my cool and do the whole 180 thing.
> ...


Write her a letter telling her you feel that she might be having an affair and that you both have to arrange an interruption free time to discuss it. Bring the issue out in the open and then immediately sign up for short term crisis counseling. Most couples cannot reconcile an affair on their own. Your situation seems to be solvable as`` this seems a first for her and she seems regretful


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## brokenfool (Sep 23, 2011)

update,
I confronted her on Sunday night by asking if we could all go out for drinks together since I have never met our friend and polititly asked her to call. She refused, saying it was too late in the evening. The next day she told me that I could meet her "friend (OM)" if they could find a sitter. I simply asked her to call her again and arrange for drinks. Again, she refused and said I have set up a meeting so we are good. I then said to her "I want make sure I undertand, I asked you to call her in my presence and both times you refused". She said, "you can look at it like that". I then walked away. I have written a draft letter to her, which I will run by my IC, but also wanted your opinion. Here goes.

WW,
We are having a tough time. Both of us are afraid and alone and we both have made our mistakes. On my end, I did not give you the time and energy you deserve nor did I attend to your needs in times of sickness . For that I am genuinely sorry and wish that I could take it all back. I never intended to hurt you. I hope that you see that I am making those changes. I am not perfect, but I am trying. 
On your end, your relationship with OM, while unintentional, was extremely hurtful. I am still trying to get my arms around it. You shared with him, things that were not to be shared or to be shared with me, and I feel betrayed and deceived. It took me many months to gain the strength and courage to confront you on my discomfort with that relationship. When I did, I did it poorly.
Right now I am very uncomfortable with you relationship with “insert girl name here”. I know the following:
1)	She is clearly a friend based on the number of phone calls and texts that you send to each other
2)	I have never met “her”
3)	You received three calls from her the night and morning the boys spent with your mother when I was away. One at 8pm, one at 3:51am, one at 7:29am and then a bunch during the day on Sunday totaling an hour and a half.
4)	I have called that number several times over the last couple of months and never once has a female voice answered the phone. The voicemail is that of a male as well
5)	I have repeatedly asked you to call her and ask her for drinks in my presence and each time you refuse. Yet when I ask you to call "actual married friend" to solidify our plans with her, you do it instantly.
While each one of these things can be explained by themselves, they cannot be explained together.
I do not know if “girl name (OM)” is OM or someone different, but I am concerned and hurting. I believe I am being deceived. I do not know what to think, so I am thinking the worst. The emotional and physical pain I feel is immense. Please stop your selfish ways and release me from my pain so that I can move forward. I know it will be difficult for you, and you think that you are protecting me, but you are not. I am bleeding a slow death and I do not wish to continue to do so. I will not wait forever for the truth.

BS


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Dear WW,
I still say "dear" as it is intended, however that can be removed without a doubt permanently.
The choice is not up to you anymore. I will kick you to the curb like yesterdays piece of meat, if you intend to continue your affair with this OM. All the lies and betrayal you have placed upon me was never warranted by anything I have ever done.
I will not stand for cheating, and I have divorce papers in hand and ready to serve you, should you decide to pursue your fantasy.
Rest assured I will not be treated like a piece of trash to be lied to, by omitting the truth in matters. If you want to play word games like telling me I can view things however I want, and yet still not attempt to clarify what is going on with you, then pack your bags, I want you out of the house and out of my life, so I can move on to a mature and honest woman.
Thanks for nothing you wretched piece of trash..
Yours Truly,


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

joe kidd said:


> She will do this as long as you allow her. Why not if there are no consequences?


Bingo.



alphaomega said:


> Stop being a Pu$$y. Start using some of the advise your getting from this forum. Time to man up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree.

She isplayingyou. You already know her "girlfriend" is in fact a man and you even called the # and got his voicemail.

Tell her that you know she is not be honest with you and until she is, you want nothing to do with her. Tell her you want her full honesty and if she lies, you are done. Tell her you already have a host/slew of information and if what she says doesn't match, there will e consequences.

GET MORE INFO on this OM!

NO woman calls a man at 3 and 7 a.m. if there isn't something going on. And no woman lies and says a girlfriend is actually a MAN if something isn't going on!!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Asking to "meet" with this other person is just a convoluted way of getting to the point. It's really not the way to go.

Just tell her you called that number a few times, it was a man's voice every time. (When you called, was it from your WW's cell phone? If not, try that next time. Bet he answers.) Flat out tell her you don't believe this is a woman, but instead, a man she is cheating on you with.

Say that you know she is lying, that nothing adds up, and until she comes clean you are done. Then pull the 180, hard.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Asking to "meet" with this other person is just a convoluted way of getting to the point. It's really not the way to go.
> 
> Just tell her you called that number a few times, it was a man's voice every time. (When you called, was it from your WW's cell phone? If not, try that next time. Bet he answers.) Flat out tell her you don't believe this is a woman, but instead, a man she is cheating on you with.
> 
> Say that you know she is lying, that nothing adds up, and until she comes clean you are done. Then pull the 180, hard.


Why tip her off to the depth of your intel?

Why not just say you know that her "friend" was no a "woman" and say "Do you want to tell the truth or keep lying to me?".


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## brokenfool (Sep 23, 2011)

One additonal piece of information. I am not sure it is helpful or not. The last 8 text messages sent to the OM over the last month have gone unreturned. I think the OM dumped her. I do firmly believe that the affair is over.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Either way, the point is to tell her you KNOW. She is not being forthcoming, still saying this person is a woman, when he knows it isn't. I feel the W will keep saying it's a woman until he flat out tells her how he knows it is really a man. Otherwise, she'll just keep denying it.

There is a lot of trickle truth about to come squirtin' out. His W is very afraid to say anything, probably because the truth is awful. So why play games? Just get it out.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> There is a lot of trickle truth about to come squirtin' out. His W is very afraid to say anything, probably because the truth is awful. So why play games? Just get it out.


Then telling her he knows that her "friend" is not a "woman" does that without tipping her off about how he knows this. And giving her the opportunity to do the right thing and tell the truth is equally important.

If she knows exactly what his intel is, she can use what he has told her to fabricate new explanations.

If she continues to lie because she doesn't know how he knows, and he catches her lying again, then he knows what he is dealing with.

It's a game alright, but not one that he started, and he isn't the player (he's getting played), and tipping his hand is less likely to get the full truth.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

The affair may seem over, but you never know for sure. Also, since you know so little about the nature and the depth of the affair, let alone who the OM is, you can't really move on from this treachery, let alone trying to prevent it from re-occuring. You don't know her throught process in this, how much she is still missing him, etc., either. 

The bottom line is, you have to confront her and dig to the bottom of it, risking your marriage. If digging the truth for infidelity leads W to leave you, then your M meant so little to her anyway. How aggressively to approach her is upto you and only you know your wife, but you must be relentless. 

Remember, to save the marraige is to risk the marraige. Your marriage has been placed on the wager the moment she started playing the game of affair. No matter what you do, the risk is there that the marriage may end, and this is not your fault. She did it. My advice is that you should recognize and accept this risk and play this game hard. It was not your choice to start this game, but you have no choice if you are looking to save your marriage. Have the faith, and I am sure you will pull thru this fine, one way or the other.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

brokenfool said:


> One additonal piece of information. I am not sure it is helpful or not. The last 8 text messages sent to the OM over the last month have gone unreturned. I think the OM dumped her. I do firmly believe that the affair is over.


This changes NOTHING. She is still lying and disrespecting you. Grow a friggen pair and call her ass out on it. Do not accpet anything but the truth.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

uphillbattle said:


> This changes NOTHING. She is still lying and disrespecting you. Grow a friggen pair and call her ass out on it. Do not accpet anything but the truth.


:iagree::iagree:

Don't make excuses for not confronting her and getting the truth. If it's over, great. But you need to know what happened.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The affair may be over or it went deeper underground due to the OM side of things.
Your wife is still cheating.....cheating you out of an emotional connection filled with honesty and openess.

In stead you get lies and secrets, soon she will find someone else to share with and continue her addiction. It may even be with a completely different man

Until she owns this crap, she will never learn from it, if she does learn anything it will be how to prevent you from finding out the next time.

I hear of no remorse or any consequences that will prevent her from doing this again years down the road.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you kidding me? 

Your wife's cheating on you and you're going to give her a LETTER?

Why don't you just write DOORMAT on your forehead instead?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you want to know the #1 most successful case I have ever seen, in ten years? The betrayed husband caught his wife in one of their rental homes at night, naked, in the arms of her lover. He took a picture of them, scooped up their clothes, threw the clothes out in the street, and sent the picture to her parents. 

An hour later she had dumped the guy and was begging her husband to take her back. 

Women want STRENGTH. That's why she picked the OM - you are WEAK and he is STRONG enough to take what he wants.

If you want her to pick you, show a pair.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

turnera said:


> Women want STRENGTH. That's why she picked the OM - you are WEAK and he is STRONG enough to take what he wants.
> 
> If you want her to pick you, show a pair.


Though I wouldn't know why you would want her to pick you now since she has shown herself to be untrustworthy and unfaithful. And she may continue to be so because you'll will never really know when she's not because now she knows to hide her affairs better the next time.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

turnera said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Your wife's cheating on you and you're going to give her a LETTER?
> 
> Why don't you just write DOORMAT on your forehead instead?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

turnera said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Your wife's cheating on you and you're going to give her a LETTER?
> 
> Why don't you just write DOORMAT on your forehead instead?


I have to go with this one....


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