# Beta male needs help becoming Alpha male B4 the impending sex argument



## jgn2112fletch (Feb 5, 2010)

If anyone wants background, my other thread is the "sex with her is like pulling teeth" thread, but thanks to all who have given their advice.
You can find it here if you want:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...ctionate-wife-sex-like-pulling-teeth-her.html
I think one of the problems in my sexless marriage that is totally my fault is that I'm a pacifist beta male. I love my wife so much that for years I'd rather lose the argument than see her in emotional anguish. Therefore, over those years, I've now put myself in a situation where she wants everything from me but doesn't think she has to do anything FOR me (of which, the only thing I ask for is sex or sexual activity...which she steadfastly denies).
I'm anticipating this Valentines day to get put off for any kind of sexual activity. Except I simply don't know how to react that isn't of the whiny, "why won't you do this for me?" shtick.
Some of you have said the fewer words the better. I want to be very pointed, brutally honest, and then just leave it...like dropping a hammer without seeming to care.
About the only thing I can think of to say is something along the lines of, "I would never deny you of something you wanted so badly that I could provide...and certainly not with the ease or apparent appathy that you do."
Any suggestions on how I can handle this or what I can say to really put her undoubtedly at fault or on the spot to realize how wrong she is?


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

If someone is convinced they are not at fault, you can't convince them otherwise. And nobody respects a whiner.

In my first marriage, things started falling apart, and I lost interest. There's a song (I guess it's an old song now) "You don't bring me flowers anymore", and I didn't. What happened was that, basically, the sex wasn't good enough to hold my interest in romance. She was a tiger right up until I put a ring on her finger, whereupon she pretty much stopped doing 75% of the things I liked.

Maybe you should take the bull by the horns and just ask her "So, should we bother doing anything for Valentine's Day?" And if she responds negatively, which she might, tell her straight up: "The problems with sex have lowered my interest. You can live on memories for a long time, but not forever. So unless we're going to make new memories, it's not worth using up any more energy from my old ones." Then sigh, shake your head, and leave the room. Go read a book, preferably something about guns or tanks or war. (_The Longest Day_ might be a good choice.)

If it turns into a fight, take charge: "I'm not going to fight about it. I don't want sex with someone who doesn't want sex with me. There's not really anything else to say." Then go back to reading your book.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i see the term "enabling" on here alot, and it finally struck a chord with me. stop enabling her behavior


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## jgn2112fletch (Feb 5, 2010)

I think the best way I can stop enabling her lack of appreciation coupled with her constant demands is basically to just stop caring. Sounds sad, but I think it's true. I definitely plan on taking charge. My problem is that she usually says something that usually makes me stop in my tracks...I think the remedy to this is basically to make it a one way conversation, or emphasize over and over, regardless of anything she says, the points she cannot refute:
- That I do everything she asks and even do things I know I'll get asked to do before I'm asked so she doesn't have to ask
- That in return, she does nothing for me...sure, she'll pick up a box of cereal I asked for, or a pair of pants on sale at the Gap, but she wholly ignores the ONE THING I've beel basically begging her for for years
- That I would never consistently and repeatedly deny her of something so important to her that I had the ability to provide...and yet she does this seemingly without apathy or concern
- That the times we actually DID have sex, it was so lackluster it was almost worse than masturbation (almost without fail she'd say, we need to make this fast bacause *insert mickey mouse excuse here* OR lets just get this over with)
- That if I did any of the things I was asked/told to do in such a lackluster manner, I'd get nagged and bickerd at (and believe me, I have)


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

fletch excuse me for not going to read everything.. 
Do you have kids?


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## jgn2112fletch (Feb 5, 2010)

yes...quick synopsis: two kids (twins, both of whom are autistic) and a third on the way. believe me, I struggle with this in a way I cannot put into words (without writing a novel). 
And there's much more to it than this too.


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## sfguy (Jan 13, 2010)

If a relationship is so off track that it needs electroshock therapy, then the only way I know is to suggest that it's not working out and the only two options are divorce or change.
You'll find out how much she loves you if you give her that choice... and if she chooses divorce then just get through it without regret and knowing that you can find someone else who better meets your needs.

BTW, "take it or leave it" is what alpha males do, and if "leaving it" isn't an acceptable outcome then you can't be an alpha male. It's that simple.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Emotional connection and sexual attraction are intertwined, so to do these behaviors to create sexual attraction is the usual place to start, and the emotional connection between the man and woman will be in response to this attraction.

But before there is any sexual attraction or emotional connection, there must be respect. 

This respect is missing from this scenario.

To repeat briefly already much correct advice in this thread:

1. Actions speak louder than words.

2. A woman is irresistibly attracted to the man in control of himself, and his environment, the dominant man. A woman will resent the man that is the opposite of this, the "weak man". 

3. The good man is not afraid to confront his woman. In fact, confrontation is actually the good thing, as it is the opportunity to show in behavior dominance. For example, if there is some disagreement between myself and my wife, it is nothing less than a practical guarantee that later in the evening there is passionate and aggresive sex between us, usually to be initiated by her, and in her words, because in some way or another I did not back down from her. Know also she has admitted to even stir up some little trouble just to create this scenario. So it is that a man that is standing his ground will win the respect of his woman, and a man that is avoiding confrontation will not have the respect of his woman. If there is not the respect, there is not the sexual attraction possible, respect is first.

4. The good man must have the attitude that he can "have any woman in the world, yet desires his woman". So it is in my marriage, my wife is knowing I see other women, and she knows very much my masculine sexual appetites, but also she knows how fiercely I show her that I desire her, and how jealous I am over her, and that I expect her to show me the sexual attention enough to forget about these other women, and she is secure and creative to make me indeed forget these other woman by her behavior. I am not dishonest, to lie and say "I do not notice other women". Insted, this is the attitude that I have, this is brutal honesty, that I am very much a man and I expect my wife to be very much a woman. There is nothing about some notion that it would even remotely be safe for our marriage if it was to become sexless, or if we were to neglect our affections for each other to just miserably endure. Absolutley not. This is maybe the "take it or leave it" mentioned already.

So these points are good to know. Also this, a woman that is not sexually attracted to her man is insecure about something, and this is causing her to withdraw. In the woman, there is either sexual attraction, or insecurity. Either one or the other, but always one or the other.

Consider she is feeling somehow to let you down, or let down her children because of the medical issues, or maybe she is feeling less the woman because of these things, or overwhelmed, or not attractive to you or anyone. Or maybe she is needing you to step up in some area or another, to take ownership in some area of the relationship.

Know this, even though you may beg or plead for sex, or use words to say "you are attractive", it is actions that count. If you are not the man to stand up to your woman, to insist to her to stop neglecting her responsibilities to you as a man, then your behavior tells your woman this "She is not sexually desirable to you" and "she is not worth it to you to fight for".

Instead of telling your woman this, step up to take the courage and risk, do not avoid the confrontation but relish the opportunity to show her in actions, not words, how desirable she is to you as a woman. 

These things, to be "alpha" and "dominant" and "man up" and anything else, is really just this one thing, to be strong enough and honest enough to show in behavior how you are really feeling. This is what a woman is looking for in her man.

I wish you well.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sfguy said:


> BTW, "take it or leave it" is what alpha males do, and if "leaving it" isn't an acceptable outcome then you can't be an alpha male. It's that simple.


I think this is very true. You have come to THE END of your rope with NO sex, regardless of her issues, the twins, etc. You have NEEDS, you have been MORE than patient, you need to be able to express these fully to her - if she can not meet you more than half way on this, YOU need to be able to say You are DONE, it is no longer acceptable to go on like this, and be READY to take actions to show her YOU MEAN IT THIS TIME. 

Do let her know HOW deeply you DESIRE HER though in the midst of all of this - as BigBadWolf layed out in point #4

The good man must have the attitude that he can "have any woman in the world, yet desires his woman". So it is in my marriage, my wife is knowing I see other women, and she knows very much my masculine sexual appetites, but also she knows how fiercely I show her that I desire her, and how jealous I am over her, and that I expect her to show me the sexual attention enough to forget about these other women, and she is secure and creative to make me indeed forget these other woman by her behavior. I am not dishonest, to lie and say "I do not notice other women". Insted, this is the attitude that I have, *this is brutal honesty*, that I am very much a man and I expect my wife to be very much a woman. *There is nothing about some notion that it would even remotely be safe for our marriage if it was to become sexless, or if we were to neglect our affections for each other to just miserably endure. *Absolutley not. This is maybe the "take it or leave it" mentioned already.

Are you ready to take action IF she refuses what you are asking -- *Change* on her part or the beginnings of Separation. 

Tough when you have kids involved !! but do you want to spend the rest of your life LIKE THIS?


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## jgn2112fletch (Feb 5, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think this is very true. You have come to THE END of your rope with NO sex, regardless of her issues, the twins, etc. You have NEEDS, you have been MORE than patient, you need to be able to express these fully to her - if she can not meet you more than half way on this, YOU need to be able to say You are DONE, it is no longer acceptable to go on like this, and be READY to take actions to show her YOU MEAN IT THIS TIME.
> 
> Are you ready to take action IF she refuses what you are asking -- *Change* on her part or the beginnings of Separation.
> 
> Tough when you have kids involved !! but do you want to spend the rest of your life LIKE THIS?


Believe it or not, I am. And knowing that this situation is either going to get better or it's going to end is kind of liberating. Now, I've been putting on my happy face for the most part for so long (years) that I don't think it would be the best idea to just spring this on her and tell her out of the blue, "I've had it...you change or I leave." I think the right thing to do (and I'm totally comfortable with this) is to let this situation develop as I know it will but just handle it much differently. The next time I get denied sex or sexual activity...basically the next time she blows off my needs despite knowing full well what they are...I'm going to have a much different (and permanent) reaction. I've actually gotten to the point where I'll be LESS miserable being surrounded by a disintegrating marriage knowing I'm standing up for myself than if I tuck tail and give her some slack simply because of the extraneous factors going on in our lives. They are HUGE extraneous factors, btw...but the thing is, with her, there will ALWAYS be something. ALWAYS. It's as though she'll concern herself with me when everything else in life is resolved. And we usually know that that happens right at the moment you die. So I'm not going to allow her to shelve me while she concerns herself with everything else in life first.


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## Big Bear (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm not sure someone can "become" an alpha male but I know it's not as simple as "take it or leave it". It sounds to me like you just need to be assertive and direct. That means stating clearly what you need and expect out of a marriage and if those needs are ignored then consequences must also be stated clearly and enforced. The bottom line is how you carry yourself is more transparent then you may think. When your words are direct, carefully constructed, thought out, and articulate then you command a certian level of respect from poeple. You may want to consider substituting phrases like " YOU change or I'm leaving you" with "the way your treating me has become unacceptable and without certain changes I don't know if I can stay married to you". Just a thought. Remeber, kids don't care what your problems are. They want a mom and a dad in the house.


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## sfguy (Jan 13, 2010)

Big Bear said:


> I'm not sure someone can "become" an alpha male but I know it's not as simple as "take it or leave it".


Of course not, but what I was saying is that if "leave it" isn't an acceptable outcome then that's a disqualifier right there. Obviously there's more to it than that.



Big Bear said:


> Remeber, kids don't care what your problems are. They want a mom and a dad in the house.


I think kids are better off with parents who are separate and mentally healthy, rather that together but dysfunctional. Having parents who stay together but don't love each other creates an unhealthy role model of adult love.


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## jgn2112fletch (Feb 5, 2010)

sfguy said:


> I think kids are better off with parents who are separate and mentally healthy, rather that together but dysfunctional. Having parents who stay together but don't love each other creates an unhealthy role model of adult love.


This is absolutely correct. And it's why I've outlined to myself, if the following two conditions are BOTH met...
1. The pain of leaving my children becomes eclipsed by the pain of staying with my wife; AND
2. My own mental health and mental stability are in greater jeopardy with my wife (and children) than without her...

...then I think divorce is a viable option. My kids need parents who are engaged in a healthy, loving, and mutually respectful marriage and not a dysfunctional fake relationship.


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