# How to start reconcilliation



## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi all,

I have one other post in here, where I talk about my wife's EA with an old high school friend she reconnected with on FB back in July. 

She carried on this EA, even after I caught her, for another week. I caught her a total of 4 times talking to him - the final time she met up with him to get "closure". After that huge final blowout, where I packed up her **** and nearly threw her out, she seemed to have "snapped out of her fog" and we focused on each other.

Things between her and I were WONDERFUL for the past 3 weeks. Then out of nowhere, she started talking to ANOTHER old hs friend (not bf, just a friend). He was recently divorced, and he was very flirty with her, which quickly turned aggressive sexually and he somehow pulled my wife into a day of sexting. It was mostly him talking, her telling him that she thought it was hot and him sending x rated pics to her and her reciprocating with R rated pics. Later she sent some of those same pics to me - sloppy seconds. At some point, she realized it was wrong and ended it the next day, but I found out this past Sunday and absolutely blew up.

I had never seen sides of me like that before. I never felt so much hatred towards someone I loved so deeply. Things were destroyed in that house, both physically and emotionally. we didn't sleep all night and I berated her for hours on end, calling her every name in the book. At one point her parents came over to take the sleeping kids away and I read them both the entire transcript in front of my wife who just sat there, crying, while her mother was in hysterics and her father nearly died on my couch. So soon after the 1st affair, my MIL couldn't believe what my wife had done, was disgusted by her and told her so. They are totally on my side.

For the past 2 days, she has slept at her mother's house, coming home only to take care of our 2 young kids and then leaving again. She has apologized profusely, told me she will do anything to make this work. 

She doesn't know what she was thinking with the 2nd guy - ESPECIALLY since she knew that I was monitoring her cell. I think she got caught up in some sort of fantasy (she's addicted to those 50 shades books) and that combined with her recent weight loss and all the attention she is getting from men, she couldn't handle it appropriately.

I know that there was no PA with either man and I asked her to come back to the house last night, as this schedule was already becoming an obvious red flag to my 5 year old, who we've both been trying to protect from all of this.

But I explained to her that I was still incredibly angry, hurt, sad and not ready to just resume life as normal. I told her she could not sleep in our bed. I have taken down every picture of her in the entire home, just leaving up pics of our kids. I have taken both her and mine wedding rings and her engagement ring. We are not wearing them. I am still seething, but I do still love her, and knowing that no PA took place is the only thing that prevented me from walking out.

She knows there are no more chances. She knows she's completely monitored and there is currently no trust for her. She knows and has admitted how ashamed and terrible of a person she is for doing this. 

So tonight is the first night that she'll be home. And my question is - how do I act? I haven't touched her, barely look at her when I get home and she's taking care of the kids. She keeps telling me all she wants to do is hold me and cry. But I refuse to let her have any physical contact with me. I really do want this to work out, but I have this innate need to want to continually punish her. But then there's another part of me that wants to move forward in a positive manner. 

Our usual nights before all this was to take care of the kids, have a drink to unwind and watch our favorite TV shows. I can't just imagine starting that up again as though nothing has happened. I guess I don't want her to get the impression that she can continue to do what she wants and I'll keep coming back and things will be the same. I have made it VERY clear that even one instance of ANYTHING, and I'm gone and her life as she knows it is gone. She gets that.

I have contacted a MC to talk about starting couples therapy. In addition, her mom wants her to go to therapy because she feels she is has a sickness unlike drug abuse or alcohol, since she has never been like this before. 

Please advise. And I really could use positive support, not tough love.

Thanks everyone.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> In addition, her mom wants her to go to therapy because she feels she is has a sickness unlike drug abuse or alcohol, since she has never been like this before.


Sorry man, later will try to give you some suppor nad advice. Just couln't resist to picture MIL who just found out her princess has an inner sl0t as every other woman in the world!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ask her to come clean about her first affair.

You rugswept the first time. We were all warning you about it. Her parents know about the first one ?(that she met OM at home)

Think about it logically for once.



> I caught her a total of 4 times talking to him - the final time she met up with him to get "closure".


She told you truth this one time out of all the times you caught her lying and cheating ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And could it be that she bought a new phone after she sexted with him after the first time? (since she knew you were tracking the old one)


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> So I took her back again. When I got home from my business trip, I found out that he called her and she used a different account to contact him and invite him over to our home - but swore it was only for closure and to say goodbye. That nothing happened, but she felt she owed him that.


Oh..come on man!!! Your denial is your biggest enemy..

While it is probable that she never had sex with him, I think it is very unlikely..

Do you want to pursue this angle ? Tell your wife that you are going call this guy and tell him that your wife confessed and you need to know where they did it so you can burn it. She will probably confess more at this point

Look, if you want to reconcile, you need to do it from a point of complete honesty.


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## gdtm0111 (Oct 15, 2012)

OP - Sorry that you are here. my situation is similar - though only one EA, and she kissed him. Our daily routine sounds exactly like yours - as I'm sure it's the same/similar in most households.

It's interesting to hear how much impact exposing the affair to the parents can have. I decided not to expose to her parents, but did to mine. I know her parents would have reacted probably the same way your W's parents did.

I can tell you that in my case, I am now TRYING to work thru this with her because of our son (and her's). We are also trying to schedule time with a MC.

Warlock - I agree, she needs to come clean with everything. You should also look for an attorney's advice, to find out what your rights are.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

OK, first thing is, reconciliation takes two. You want to reconcile, but does she?

You nailed it that there is no trust. I've been reconciled 22 years and trust never returns 100%. 

You say you know there was no PA with either man. I'm not sure how that is and it would seem to be an important point. She had the first man in your home when you are away. She has given you her word, but you have said there is no trust. What do you have beyond her word to confirm there was no PA?

If you don't have a good answer to that, then your mind is going to keep saying "Did she or didn't she?" Whatever brave statements you make to the world, they won't stop the doubt.

In my case, my wife was a liar for a while. I knew her and I know it to be out of character. But I had to understand it. I had to understand why she did this out of character thing, and from there I had decide whether I could trust her not to repeat the mistake (or alternately if I could live with a repetition).

I reached the conclusion first that she is basically moral, but secondly that under certain circumstances she breaks, and if I watch I can see it coming and head it off at the pass. So I can avoid a repeat.

Other people will say to you....the wife you knew is dead and has been replaced by a liar and a cheat. They are saying the same thing I just said but in a different way. Either you married your wife knowing she was capable of this, or you have just learned you don't know her as well as you hoped. You have to figure her out all over again, not lean on what you thought you knew.

Given that your wife has cheated twice, I think you have to start with what motivates her to do that. And when you understand it, is it something that can be managed? Unless you deal with the root cause the problem continues. And for some people the root cause is they just don't want to be faithful....

The other thing I have to warn you about is that the pain you are going through gets worse before it gets better. So be strong, and don't try to be superman.

By the way, I'm with you that if I have to put my wife through polygraphs and constant monitoring for the rest of our lives, then I don't think it is worth it.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Wazza,

Thank you for your advice. She definitely wants to reconcile. She has shown remorse unlike anything I've ever seen before. She knows she has f*cked up. Knows that there are no more chances. She has said on multiple occassions, she will do whatever I want to do to fix this. Individual counseling, Couples counseling, whatever.

I know the road ahead is challenging and scary. But I want to believe that she is good, lost her way, and is still dedicated to me and our family.

To your point - people on here can be harsh - they've mostly all been hurt and they think they can save others by sharing their viewpoint. But I'm realizing that no one knows my wife like I do. For good or bad. And I need to find where I can be forgiving and where I cannot.

I think she needs to talk to someone to find out what's going on in her head. We are going to try couples counseling tonight for the first time.

I just want to find out how I can move forward so we can start healing.

P.S. Supposedly, the first man came to my home, but never got out of his car. My wife assures me that he drove up, she went out there to see him in person and tell him he can't call her anymore or whatever. I have asked her details and she has never once had different or contradicting versions. I guess I'll never know for sure unless something comes out in counseling.

As for the 2nd guy, it started this past Friday and ended this past Saturday when I found out. I called him in a rage and he immediately blocked my wife on FB and hasn't contacted her since. Having known the type before, he was clearly a guy who wants to just be a man***** and f*ck any women he wants, including married women. She was just going to be a notch on his belt. When I got involved, it got too complicated and he moved on to lower hanging fruit. That's what is so weird... the first affair was an emotional relationship with little to no talk of actual sex or sexual nature. There was an emotional connection - a void he was filling because I wasn't. I know I contributed to her unhappiness. But I've made A LOT of changes to that and the last month was the best of our lives together. I think that's why #2 hurt so much - she was so happy but got intrigued by this very sexually aggressive man. She's addicted to 50 shades of grey, and I really do believe this contributed to her thought process. Especially since she knew I was monitoring her phone and still had this inappropriate relationship. She kept saying she didn't think, she was stupid. And considering all the hoops I've read that cheaters do to keep their relationship hidden, I think she really was in a fog because she didn't do any of those things.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I think counselling is a good first step. 

Just remember you are still coming to terms with all this, and maybe so is she. I don't think you are being 100% logical yet, but I understand that. The logical truth is painful, so it takes a while to immerse yourself in it.

It's really hard to accept that the one you trusted most has lied to you. It hurts. 

Bottom line, if you can understand why she did it you can make good decisions about whether and how to reconcile. And reconciliation is an uncertain journey. Some people succeed, others fail. 

But failure is guaranteed if you don't even try!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You have been unjustly hurt - twice.

In addition to mc you HAVE to seek individual counciling to manage your emotions and pain. Whether you R or D your pain will be there for some time. You will have a better chance at R if your self confidence is restored. (you seem to be holding up well under this great trauma but blows like you've recieved have a lasting effect so deal with them w a professional)


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

I agree. I'm not sure where my head is at sometimes. Sometimes I want her back. sometimes I want her out of my life forever.

But I'm hoping time and counseling will allow me to know if this relationship is worth saving.

I owe it to my kids and my family to try. I told her trying doesn't mean definitely doing, but she is ecstatic that i'm even offering to try. I think most men would have bailed long ago. I don't think i'm a sucker, pathetic or a loser as I'm sure some will view me as.

I'm a man who knows his wife is a good person who made some horrible mistakes, awful decisions and if she can conquer whatever is causing her to go off the rails, I'm willing to give it another go. now I have nothing to lose - if she does it again, there's no more us and I won't even have to think about it. It's kind of empowering to know that it's now a switch. If it gets flipped, I'm done. I'll still be an amazing father, but I'm done being a husband to her.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> You have been unjustly hurt - twice.
> 
> In addition to mc you HAVE to seek individual counciling to manage your emotions and pain. Whether you R or D your pain will be there for some time. You will have a better chance at R if your self confidence is restored. (you seem to be holding up well under this great trauma but blows like you've recieved have a lasting effect so deal with them w a professional)


I didn't have professional counselling, but I never got over some of what my wife did until I formed a very close friendship with a woman who had a similar worldview and whose spouse had also been unfaithful. 

So yes talking helps. This is good advice.

We can support you to an extent on the forum but it's not the same. Too much energy diverted into arguing with people who just see it all differently.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

smr2500bus said:


> I agree. I'm not sure where my head is at sometimes. Sometimes I want her back. sometimes I want her out of my life forever.
> 
> But I'm hoping time and counseling will allow me to know if this relationship is worth saving.
> 
> ...


Use this as impetus to work on your issues. Want to be fitter? Got goals you want to pursue? Do it. Take care of yourself more and the relationship will benefit.

Even if you are not a fitness freak (and I am not!) exercise helps the stress. Your mind gets time to think while you are working your body.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Walkon - yes, I think i have to do individual therapy as well. I have to figure it all out, because between MC and IC for both of us, $$$$$. Now, I don't put a dollar amount on my emotional well being and health, but each therapist is close to $160 a session and that is too much a week to afford.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Wazza,

That's EXACTLY what I've done. The main issue that started all of this was my weight. Not only did it reduce the attraction my wife had for me sexually, but it cascaded into other parts of my life. I snored, so we never slept together. I was tired, so I never helped around the house with the kids. 

My wife lost 80 pounds since she had our 2nd child. She looks amazing - like a 20 year old. And she has suddenly gotten the attention of many men and I think she doesn't know how to handle it. 

During her weight loss, her life changed. She became very into fitness, started a support group on FB, joined Weight Watchers, etc. She asked me over and over and over again to do it with her. I didn't listen. She told me over and over again that she was unhappy with my lack of desire or initiative to get healthy. I didn't listen.

So I knew all of this contributed to me losing her to the first affair. I think that's why I was willing to reconcile immeidately. I promised her I would change after that first time and since then have lost 20 lbs and have become a changed man. Again, why #2 hurt so much - I was finally the man she wanted me to be and I STILL got betrayed. but this time it was some sick Christian Grey fantasy. I think she blurred the lines between reality and fantasy because it was online - it almost wasnt' real to her (even though the guy was very real and they had known each other for years). It's still all so confusing and upsetting. 

Normally something not nearly as tramatic as this would have sent me off the rails and I would have eaten my weight in cupcakes by now. But aside from having no appetite, I'm also still working out and trying to keep focused on doing the things that will make me feel better.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

smr2500bus said:


> Wazza,
> 
> That's EXACTLY what I've done. The main issue that started all of this was my weight. Not only did it reduce the attraction my wife had for me sexually, but it cascaded into other parts of my life. I snored, so we never slept together. I was tired, so I never helped around the house with the kids.
> 
> ...


So how far from your goal weights are you? Is weight loss and fitness something you can do together?

I spent a lot of time talking through issues with my wife after her affair, but sometimes talking was far less effective than making a unilateral decision to change things.

An example, I will give her a foot massage and talk with her. It's her chance to talk about her day and we can share things. Now, that was in a context where wife's infidelity had already been addressed, and I don't think you are there yet...but my commitment to do that has paid huge dividends in closeness.

Example 2...my wife wants me to give up work and I refuse. We could actually live on just her wage plus our investments, but firstly we can have more luxuries if I work as well..my salary is a fair bit more than hers....and secondly...I have said to her that neither of us should take the marriage for granted, and that means not becoming financially dependent on the other. Translation - I want to be with you but I don't have to...she doesn't like to hear that stuff, but that is a decision of mine she does not get a say in.

By the say....just to be clear...if she is so upset at your weight she is entitled to separate over it, but it does NOT justify cheating, in my view....I don't think you should let her off the hook for that.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

This is all pretty recent and you seem too quick to want to put it in the past and reconcile, get back to normal, make your marriage better than ever, but a few short days ago your wife was getting sexual with another man.

You seem to be in denial. For one thing, you at first state that you know it wasn't a physical affair and then later you state that you really have no way of knowing whether or not it was physical except that your wife said it wasn't. Another thing is how you want to believe your wife is a "good" person despite her bad actions. My advice is to not label your wife "good" or "bad" but just let her actions define her. You would like to blame it on her weight loss, her reading a racy book, other man instigating it with her, etc., but "good" people know right from wrong.

You trust your wife with the care of your children, so obviously you believe your wife is capable of evaluating a situation and making a logical decision. She is not one person with your kids and another person when it comes to other men. She evaluated each situation with the other men and made a decision to cheat on you. She didn't come clean to you about either one, you had to find out on your own.

I really think you've handled parts of this situation well. But I think you should ask yourself, what has changed from July, and what has changed from Saturday, other than your wife has gotten caught? Are you saying your wife had that "aha" moment, where now (since being caught) on Saturday, now she realizes she loves you and wants to be with you? Or that she is terrified that she has no better alternative and is just acting the part? Or has been shamed into it? I would rather be alone than be with someone who is there only because of shame or lack of a better alternative.

You are too soon after this happening to make any type of decision. Let some time pass and let your wife prove through her actions, not just words, that she wants to reconcile with you because she loves you.


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## idkwhat (Oct 21, 2012)

Our usual nights before all this was to take care of the kids, have a drink to unwind and watch our favorite TV shows.

sounds so freaking boring, maybe she just wants to bring some excitement and titillation in her life.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Wazza said:


> So how far from your goal weights are you? Is weight loss and fitness something you can do together?


Wazza, I'm down 20 pounds, but want to lose about another 50. I was close at 270 when I started. I'm embarrassed that I let myself go so much, but I'm on the right path.



Wazza said:


> I spent a lot of time talking through issues with my wife after her affair, but sometimes talking was far less effective than making a unilateral decision to change things.
> 
> An example, I will give her a foot massage and talk with her. It's her chance to talk about her day and we can share things. Now, that was in a context where wife's infidelity had already been addressed, and I don't think you are there yet...but my commitment to do that has paid huge dividends in closeness.


We went to our first counseling session last night and it already opened both of our eyes. Long way to go, but I see the path laid out.




Wazza said:


> By the say....just to be clear...if she is so upset at your weight she is entitled to separate over it, but it does NOT justify cheating, in my view....I don't think you should let her off the hook for that.


I haven't let her off the hook for ANYTHING. Look, we're all human. We all make mistakes. I'm not suggesting for a moment that ANYTHING she did was excusable, justifiable, or warranted. She f'd up - BIG TIME - and she knows it. I'm at a point where I'm done if she makes even the slightest mistake going forward. But I have two young kids - babies, really - and having come from a broken home where my parents hated each other bc of infidelity and I had zero relationship with my father after that.... I just don't want that life for my kids. I know that doesn't mean letting my wife walk all over me, but it does mean I have to think rationally and not with my emotions.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

idkwhat said:


> Our usual nights before all this was to take care of the kids, have a drink to unwind and watch our favorite TV shows.
> 
> sounds so freaking boring, maybe she just wants to bring some excitement and titillation in her life.


Yes, idkwhat - you're exactly right. I'm already working on making some changes - date nights and working on getting my in-laws to watch the kids more often so we can get out.

I'm learning how hard it is to make marriage work - and how bad things get when you take each other for granted.


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## smr2500bus (Oct 15, 2012)

Will, you make excellent points...



Will_Kane said:


> You seem to be in denial. For one thing, you at first state that you know it wasn't a physical affair and then later you state that you really have no way of knowing whether or not it was physical except that your wife said it wasn't. Another thing is how you want to believe your wife is a "good" person despite her bad actions. My advice is to not label your wife "good" or "bad" but just let her actions define her. You would like to blame it on her weight loss, her reading a racy book, other man instigating it with her, etc., but "good" people know right from wrong.


I have asked myself this question time and again already. Am I in denial? Am I rug sweeping? But I don't feel like I am. That's why I'll be doing therapy regardless. Both marriage counseling and my wife and I will be going to individual therapy, too. She has told me time and again that she will do anything if I give her another chance. And I believe her. She has shown me true remorse, true regret. Now I have to make sure the actions follow the words. And as far as the knowing if she had a PA or not... there will never be a definitive way to know that. But part of my marriage working out is believing my wife. She's confessed to a multitude of horrible things she's done, and at one point when she assumed it was completely over based on my actions and words, I asked her again and she had not changed her story or the details one bit. I think that's telling - when you lie, the smallest details can change and she's never wavered. I have no choice but to believe her, and I do. 



Will_Kane said:


> I really think you've handled parts of this situation well. But I think you should ask yourself, what has changed from July, and what has changed from Saturday, other than your wife has gotten caught? Are you saying your wife had that "aha" moment, where now (since being caught) on Saturday, now she realizes she loves you and wants to be with you? Or that she is terrified that she has no better alternative and is just acting the part? Or has been shamed into it? I would rather be alone than be with someone who is there only because of shame or lack of a better alternative.


Of course! I would never want to be with someone because of obligation, shame, or something other than love and respect. And my wife has seriously crippled that. But I also know that there is still love there between us and if she wants to keep us together, she and I are both going to have to bust our assest to make sure that returns - and of course, the trust.



Will_Kane said:


> You are too soon after this happening to make any type of decision. Let some time pass and let your wife prove through her actions, not just words, that she wants to reconcile with you because she loves you.


I disagree here. I already know I want to try. It's no guarantee things will work, but I want to try and reconcile. I'm not afraid of being alone or even about my kids (as we were talking about how we can be part of their lives everyday even if not a couple). I'm angry, I'm hurt, I'm sad - but I think there's a chance to recover. And I don't want to sit around stewing about things when I can be using that time to see if we can bounce back. Not everyone works on the same clock, and I've learned long ago that you don't follow what you think is SUPPOSED to be the right way or time to do things. You do what YOU feel is right to you. 

And I feel confident in having this "insurance policy" if you will. We both know that there is zero margin of error moving forward. If it happens again, yes, there will be hurt, but there will be no indecision. I'm gone, divorce, and all the things that come with it. So this is the last time I'm going to even consider going through a change again. I'm completely and utterly ready to walk away if anything even SLIGHTLY off the rails happens again. And she knows it. It's somewhat empowering.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

smr2500bus said:


> Wazza,
> 
> That's EXACTLY what I've done. *The main issue that started all of this was my weight.* Not only did it reduce the attraction my wife had for me sexually, but it cascaded into other parts of my life. I snored, so we never slept together. then have lost 20 lbs and have become a changed man.
> 
> *Again, why #2 hurt so much - I was finally the man she wanted me to be and I STILL got betrayed. but this time it was some sick Christian Grey fantasy.* I think she blurred the lines between reality and fantasy because it was online - .


So, what's next? First your weight then the 50 Shades.

Life is too long. How many other temptation will she have to go through before she can finally love you once and for all?

She is emotionally unstable and she gets very easily detached.
What will happen once the kids grow up and daily problems become part of the routine? 
With one little temptation she's ready to forget you and the kids. 
Think well before you give this another try. At least this time give her REAL-HARD consequences.


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