# What % of Wives Cheat?



## Arnold

I am two for two in my marriages. Both wives serially cheated.

I have dated, some, and , in conversation with the women I have met, I would say aboyt 75% have cheated or been an OW to a married man(both my XW had been with married men).
I wonder, since women probably have more access to this infor, from friends etc, can someone give me a rough estimate of how common it is among women.


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## Shaggy

I think it varies from social group and education level. I have always suspected that the best place to fish for a woman who is looking to cheat would be church. For some reason churches attract lots of women looking for someone to give them direction and answers.


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## deejov

Wow, that's interesting. Most of my female friends have been cheated on, but I can't think of any women I know that (admit) to cheating.
Some are unhappy, yes. But they get divorced instead. Maybe they don't ever admit it to other women, doesn't mean it isn't happening.


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## Mike188

I think women can cheat more easily than men. They are usually surrounded by guys who want to have sex with them. Guys are usually also more likely to be descreet and not go and blab to the woman's husband. Don't know if religous people cheat any more frequently than non-religous people, but I know it's not less frequently. If you feel safe or immune to adultry because you and your spouse are Christians then you are deluding yoursels. There were lots of affairs in the church I used to go to (First United Medthodist).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Every serious relationship I`ve ever been involved with (aside from my wife) the woman cheated on me.

That probably has more to do with my choices in women than any gender specific failing but it`s a fact that makes you go ..hmmm??


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## Arnold

Shaggy said:


> I think it varies from social group and education level. I have always suspected that the best place to fish for a woman who is looking to cheat would be church. For some reason churches attract lots of women looking for someone to give them direction and answers.


This does not surprise me. Seems the most sexually voracious women I have met are church goers, many giving the impression of being demure. In the bderoom these republican/relious types are very uninhibited. I bet Michelle Bachman is insatiable.

But, seriously, most of the women that I met on match had cheated.


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## deejov

I will also add that years ago I had a job as conveyance acct in a very pretigious commercial real estate brokerage. I left that job and it's huge paycheque because of the environment. Many married brokers were carrying on with other ladies at functions. VP would show up for company function with a different woman every time, none looked like the picture of his wife on his desk. And it is "common" in the industry I'm in now... upper level mgmt. But it's the MEN that have mistresses. So I don't think it's immune to income, or only happens in lower class.


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## Deejo

Depends upon whose numbers you look at, or the nature of the study. One of the factors regarding responses is that it is simply NOT behavior that one wants to respond to positively in a survey.

What does seem clear is that the sexes are closing the infidelity gap. Those that presume that men cheat at much higher rate are incorrect. Women lag men by about 15 to 20% at best.

On a personal level, if you are seeing distinct factors in your long term relationships, then you need to take a hard look at the common denominator ... you.


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## Arnold

Deejo said:


> Depends upon whose numbers you look at, or the nature of the study. One of the factors regarding responses is that it is simply NOT behavior that one wants to respond to positively in a survey.
> 
> What does seem clear is that the sexes are closing the infidelity gap. Those that presume that men cheat at much higher rate are incorrect. Women lag men by about 15 to 20% at best.
> 
> On a personal level, if you are seeing distinct factors in your long term relationships, then you need to take a hard look at the common denominator ... you.


Exactly. I hope it is more of a selection problem than a "driving them to cheat" deal.I think it is the former, as , Like I said, both wives had been involved with multiple married men when they were single. I was an idiot to have overlooked that. And,one cheated on her subsequnt husband.
In the dating deal, I noticed that the woemn seemed to make a major distinction between having been an OW and having cheated on a spouse or boyfriend. 
Now, withthe wisodom of hindsight, I am of the opinion that it makes little difference, as both reflect on integrity and the perso's view n the sanctity of marriage.


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## Runs like Dog

back of the envelope, 75-80%


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## ReasonableMan

Couldn't prove a thing, but the data coming out of university programs that track these kinds of things (not for publishing but instead to provide responses and benefits to certain populations) are finding that women and men cheat at approximately the same rate. 

It makes sense if you think about it in the sense that people typically pair off. Even if a few people in one gender cheat with many other people, there are probably comparable people on the other side as well. Nothing I can prove of course, but I think women have pulled even with men. 

The one difference I think is that women are in some ways encouraged in the sense that they see it as some sort of empowerment, whereas a cheating man is just yet another cheating man.

Edit: I should add that I saw one expert recently say that adultery rates are actually declining and that the reason the poll results are so high is that such people self-select when responding. He was saying only 15% or so cheat these days. It seemed really low to me, but whatever the rate is I still think women cheat as often as men do.


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## Arnold

It's weird you say that about the etitlement or endowment mentality. Traditionally, I have heard it said that men were viewed this way.
But, Ihave noticed something , too. It seems that the common steroetype(redundant, I guess) is that men cheat for sex and women for love or emotionla reasons. I am not sure that is true, or if the women just report it that way due to the stigma attached to admitting the hook up was for merely sexual reasons.
Regardless, it seems that women's cheating may , actually, be more accepted, as they characterize it as the pursuit of true love etc. Society seems to look less disapporvingly on this, in spite of the fact that it causes just as much destruction to the family and betrayed spouse.
I think of movies where this is the dynamic, like "Bridges of ******* County", and how the cheating wife's activites were portrayed as, somehow sort of noble and romantic.


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## that_girl

I emotionally cheated before leaving my older daughter's father. I wish I would not have done that, but it happened. He wasn't a peach-- living with him was hell....but he didn't deserve that. I have never done anything like that since. I felt awful. I have apologized to him for that. 

I don't know of any of my female friends who have cheated. I know some that think about it, but decide against it.


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## omega

I'm sure plenty of women hide their cheating from their friends, but I can say that of all my friends (female - I'm also female) NONE of them has ever admitted cheating on their husband to me. I've also never cheated. I have had girlfriends who have admitted cheating on boyfriends (two come to mind).

Out of all my girlfriends, I know of one whose husband cheated on her. (They has a successful R.)


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## that_girl

My EA was strictly emotional attachment...and wasn't physical until after I left my ex. And wow. What an awesome Love that was. No intercourse though...our guilt kept us from that. (He was good friends with my ex, and he and I were good friends...omg what drama). But I'll never regret it. Ever. It showed me my capacity to love and I didn't settle for less with my husband. It took me 4 years to get over him. 6 months after I was over him, I met my husband. Perfect <3


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## Mike188

that_girl said:


> My EA was strictly emotional attachment...and wasn't physical until after I left my ex. And wow. What an awesome Love that was. No intercourse though...our guilt kept us from that. (He was good friends with my ex, and he and I were good friends...omg what drama). But I'll never regret it. Ever. It showed me my capacity to love and I didn't settle for less with my husband. It took me 4 years to get over him. 6 months after I was over him, I met my husband. Perfect <3


I've talked to a few women who have cheated and none of them regretted it either. It's also my observation that women tend to offer support and even encouragement to a cheating friend at a higher rate than men do. Men seem to be be likely to tell a friend that he is screwing up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

Mike188 said:


> I've talked to a few women who have cheated and none of them regretted it either. It's also my observation that women tend to offer support and even encouragement to a cheating friend at a higher rate than men do. Men seem to be be likely to tell a friend that he is screwing up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wrong. To my friends who think about cheating, I make them focus on their men/marriages/family. We have long talks. Vows are important to me. My ex and I never married. I think he just liked his kid being in the same house so he didn't have to go out of his way to visit. I never really loved him. I don't think he loved me. we just got pregnant and tried to have a family. 

Why would I regret it? My ex treated me horribly. He refused to marry me but wanted me to be a "wife". I was 24 and hadn't had sex in a year. When he did, he'd do it and then get up and shower. He called me horrible names for the dumbest mistakes. He kept a list of every penny of his that i spent (while I stayed home with OUR child) and said I owed it back to him someday... and He went out but I wasn't allowed to go. lol. Looking back, I should never had moved in with him. I was young and foolish. I should have left before getting involved with my friend. Oh well. They still do music together. lol. It's a truly long story.


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## Halien

Arnold said:


> I am two for two in my marriages. Both wives serially cheated.
> 
> I have dated, some, and , in conversation with the women I have met, I would say aboyt 75% have cheated or been an OW to a married man(both my XW had been with married men).
> I wonder, since women probably have more access to this infor, from friends etc, can someone give me a rough estimate of how common it is among women.


I've also been curious if there is some common dynamic that might occur in marriages where one spouse cheats, but wouldn't want to imply that anyone is doing something wrong. My wife once said that other than the matter of integrity and her love for me, one of the biggest factors for not cheating is that she is 100% convinced that the marriage would end. I admit that it might be a low empathy issue, but being kicked out of home a couple of times as a kid taught me to move on, adapt, and recover from traumatic experiences. Early in the marriage, when she asked the theoretical questions of 'would I divorce?', I told her that the real question was 'do you want to stay married?"

Some people equate great love to reconciling after cheating. Me, I equate great love to not cheating. Its just hard to put my arms around reconciling when a marriage is already broken through a wife choosing another man.

Honestly, I'm humbled by people who can reconcile.


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## ReasonableMan

I think when I mention the empowerment aspect of a wife cheating, I'm thinking more culturally rather than individually. I don't want to besmirch individual women or even women as a group. 

That being said, there is a certain "industry" out there, strongly represented in the media and marketed to women, that teaches that behaving like some men traditionally have is a sort of empowerment for women generally. 

So when I read a featured article on Yahoo this week about why wives cheat, each story was told as a form of victimhood for that wife, who found herself empowered by her decision to cheat on her husband. The woman who wrote the article also noted how many books and other articles treat female infidelity as an inevitable result of men not making the grade these days. Never mind the Eat Pray Love trend.

All that being said, the comments on that article, mostly by women, condemned the author's seeming approval of infidelity in any form. Cheating is cheating they (mostly) wrote, which makes me think that hopefully most wives out there know that the marketing itself is something to be laughed at for any responsible woman. Most women see right through this stuff, but the fact that such articles and books and movies are proliferating seems like a shift from the past.


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## that_girl

I didn't cheat for sex. I cheated to be treated like a human being.

I learned my lesson though. I didn't take vows until i could mean them.


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## Arnold

that_girl said:


> Wrong. To my friends who think about cheating, I make them focus on their men/marriages/family. We have long talks. Vows are important to me. My ex and I never married. I think he just liked his kid being in the same house so he didn't have to go out of his way to visit. I never really loved him. I don't think he loved me. we just got pregnant and tried to have a family.
> 
> Why would I regret it? My ex treated me horribly. He refused to marry me but wanted me to be a "wife". I was 24 and hadn't had sex in a year. When he did, he'd do it and then get up and shower. He called me horrible names for the dumbest mistakes. He kept a list of every penny of his that i spent (while I stayed home with OUR child) and said I owed it back to him someday... and He went out but I wasn't allowed to go. lol. Looking back, I should never had moved in with him. I was young and foolish. I should have left before getting involved with my friend. Oh well. They still do music together. lol. It's a truly long story.


Yeah regardles of the justifications, a better chice would have been to act with integrity.
I was in an abusive marriage. I definitely thought about cheating.


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## that_girl

Oh for sure! If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have pussed out. I would have told him how I felt and that I was leaving. 

But, hindsight is 20/20. I did, however, learn a huge life lesson about honesty. I also learned that I don't like feeling that way. regardless of how he treated me, i didn't need to stoop to his level.

Even if it was an EA...it was still cheating.


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## Arnold

Was just trying to reconcile you saying you have no regrets about cheating with your above sentiment.No doubt I have enaged in some bad behavior in this life. But, I do regret it.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Was just trying to reconcile you saying you have no regrets about cheating with your above sentiment.No doubt I have enaged in some bad behavior in this life. But, I do regret it.


Oh but I don't regret it. It all happened for a reason...and I know what that reason is


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## Triumph

that_girl said:


> Wrong. To my friends who think about cheating, I make them focus on their men/marriages/family. We have long talks. Vows are important to me. My ex and I never married. I think he just liked his kid being in the same house so he didn't have to go out of his way to visit. I never really loved him. I don't think he loved me. we just got pregnant and tried to have a family.
> 
> Why would I regret it? My ex treated me horribly. He refused to marry me but wanted me to be a "wife". I was 24 and hadn't had sex in a year. When he did, he'd do it and then get up and shower. He called me horrible names for the dumbest mistakes. He kept a list of every penny of his that i spent (while I stayed home with OUR child) and said I owed it back to him someday... and He went out but I wasn't allowed to go. lol. Looking back, I should never had moved in with him. I was young and foolish. I should have left before getting involved with my friend. Oh well. They still do music together. lol. It's a truly long story.


Its cliche, but in your circumstances it would seem that two wrongs do make a right.


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## Mike188

that_girl said:


> Oh but I don't regret it. It all happened for a reason...and I know what that reason is


Like I said, I know a few women who have cheated and none of them have regretted it.


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## that_girl

Mike188 said:


> Like I said, I know a few women who have cheated and none of them have regretted it.


What is there to regret? Most women cheat because they are treated horribly. I never tried to reconcile. He wasn't that upset that I left, only that I left for someone else. lolll He didn't want me though. It was best for everyone involved. We are good friends now for our daughter. that's all.


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## Arnold

that_girl said:


> Oh but I don't regret it. It all happened for a reason...and I know what that reason is


Well, that certainly clarifies it for me. Thanks:scratchhead:


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## Arnold

that_girl said:


> What is there to regret? Most women cheat because they are treated horribly. I never tried to reconcile. He wasn't that upset that I left, only that I left for someone else. lolll He didn't want me though. It was best for everyone involved. We are good friends now for our daughter. that's all.


Well, then maybe their kids should not treat them like that.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Well, that certainly clarifies it for me. Thanks:scratchhead:


Well, I didn't want to go into all of it  But had I not left my ex, the way I did, I'd never had learned how horrible that felt. I'd never had loved the man that I did which taught me a TON about love ...I will never regret loving him even though it was pretty impossible hahaa. Then I'd probably never moved to Los Angeles. I'd never meet my husband, etc, etc. My ex is doing well too! His music is taking off and he's happily living from friend's couch to friend's couch. He has nothing and wants nothing. We were just two people who got pregnant within 2 months of dating...when in reality, we should have broken up after the 1st month.


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## Arnold

Very true. Had I not beaten my dog the other day, I would not have realized that it feels bad to do so. And, the dog is well. Found a juicy steakbone in the neighbor's garbage and there is a hot poodle moving in down the street.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Very true. Had I not beaten my dog the other day, I would not have realized that it feels bad to do so. And, the dog is well. Found a juicy steakbone in the neighbor's garbage and there is a hot poodle moving in down the street.


Omg. Life is about lessons. I learned from mine. Didn't repeat it. I tried for over a year to talk to him about our problems and he would say, "If there's a problem, it's yours. Deal." So i did.


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## Arnold

Just saying that you would have been better served by acting with integrity,

BTW, hwere did you come up with the notion that most women cheat because they are being treated horribly. I suspect a great many betrayed husbands would disagree with you on that.
What is the source of that ? Seems fairly sexist.


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## that_girl

Integrity, yep. Learned about that too. You assume that I was who I am today and I assure you that 13 years ago I had NO idea what a relationship takes. I hate no idea about love or commitment. He surely wasn't committed to me. His favorite line was, "You can't be everything to me. I need other women to fulfill what you lack." Awesome.

From reading, it seems that much of the women, and men alike, cheat because they are treated in a way they see is horrible. They lack an emotional tie to their mate so they seek it elsewhere. Am I wrong in that? I didn't compare men and women and their cheating. I just said that most women cheat because they feel they are treated wrongly.  Am I wrong? I think most men cheat for the same reason. And even if someone thinks they are being a good mate, it's all perception. If someone feels they are being treated horribly, then in their mind, they are...But I see your point. I was not implying that most men treat their mates wrongly.

I learned a TON about integrity and commitment from that time in my life. I did not walk away from it unscathed. I spiraled into a dark place that only self forgiveness and sincere apologies could get me out of and a few years later I was able to grow as a human. From that point on I wouldn't commit to anyone that I knew I couldn't keep the promise. I was honest in my relationships, even if the truth hurt.


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## Arnold

Oh, I thought you said that most women cheat because they ARE being treated horribly. I'll check that portion of my vows re the dispenation should I feel mistreated.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Oh, I thought you said that most women cheat because they ARE being treated horribly.


I think I did. lol. Which is my bad for not explaining what I meant.


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## Shaggy

It is interesting that women seem to justify cheating because of what their husband does, while men justify it because of what their wife doesn't do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

Shaggy said:


> It is interesting that women seem to justify cheating because of what their husband does, while men justify it because of what their wife doesn't do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mine wasn't a husband. He didn't even call me his girlfriend. There were many issues in that relationship that were bogus. I only moved in with him because he didn't want to deal with my mother (whom I lived with at the time). 

I take responsibility for my cheating. If I could do it over, I would have been up front. Fear and wussy-dom got the better of me (I was afraid of him) and I pussed out. Yes, shame on me. But that was 13 years ago.


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## Arnold

Shaggy said:


> It is interesting that women seem to justify cheating because of what their husband does, while men justify it because of what their wife doesn't do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've seen both: The H is controlling/abusive, etc or the H is a beta who does not meet needs, or the His "emotionally neglectful"(I guess that is both active and passive).

Same for men cheaters. Not enough this or that, or nagging or weight gain etc. 

The need for justification seems pretty universal.


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## Arnold

that_girl said:


> Mine wasn't a husband. He didn't even call me his girlfriend. There were many issues in that relationship that were bogus. I only moved in with him because he didn't want to deal with my mother (whom I lived with at the time).
> 
> I take responsibility for my cheating. If I could do it over, I would have been up front. Fear and wussy-dom got the better of me (I was afraid of him) and I pussed out. Yes, shame on me. But that was 13 years ago.


I've often wondered about htis:if fear was a factor i.e the guy is an abuser,wouldn't cheating inflame things and make him even scarier.

In all honesty, it seems to me that your affair, that girl, was not so mucha bout fear, but more about revenge.
And, since i was not there, I have no idea if it was justified. The guy may very well have been as you describe him(but, Ithink many of us have seen how the need to justify plays into the accuracy in these descriptions).
Regardless, I think just about every affair, a man's or woman's, has a large component of aggression and revenge.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> I've often wondered about htis:if fear was a factor i.e the guy is an abuser,wouldn't cheating inflame things and make him even scarier.
> 
> In all honesty, it seems to me that your affair, that girl, was not so mucha bout fear, but more about revenge.
> And, since i was not there, I have no idea if it was justified. The guy may very well have been as you describe him(but, Ithink many of us have seen how the need to justify plays into the accuracy in these descriptions).
> Regardless, I think just about every affair, a man's or woman's, has a large component of aggression and revenge.


In all honesty, revenge was not part of it. We had a mutual friend. I met both men on the same night. We were all friends for a few years. I got pregnant by one, the other remained a friend. NOTHING happened for 2 years with this friend. When **** hit the fan with my mate, I went out for a drive and stopped for some coffee and friend was there. We talked. Emotional affair started. He is not proud of this either. My mate would push me on our friend..."Go hang out with N because I'm busy." Ok. So I did. And it went on for 2 months before mate suspected EA. He asked me about it and I told him it was true. I didn't lie about that. 

I promise that I am not exaggerating my fear. He was an emotional abuser, never hit me, but I feared he would one day because of his yelling and "in my face" behaviour. I was trying to save up enough money (just started teaching) so I could move out. He supported me and our daughter (even though he kept a tab so I could pay him back one day  ) 

I don't know if he's a bad man. I never really knew him. Sad, no? We have a child together and I don't know him any better than I did when we met. I was emotionally immature. He made it clear to me that I was not his equal intellectually so he would have other "friends" to fill that need. 

The night he found out about the EA, the yelling was intense and things were thrown at me. I left with my daughter to friend's house and the next day I got a loan from my grandfather to get an apartment and that was that. 

He and friend were friends well after all of this. They did their music together and I went on with my life after EA with friend stopped months later. There was never sex...just kissing and childish things like hand holding, etc. It's hard to explain. 

I don't justify my EA with my mate's behaviour but it sure didn't keep me from doing it. At that point, I simply didn't care anymore. I had nothing left to give and he didn't want to work anything out. Oh, when i left, he promised me the world, but in later years admitted it was only a bruised ego that made him say all of that.

He and I are like family now. Brother and sister. He dropped the ball in fatherhood and daughter decided to move in with me full time. 

So, that's my nutshell. lol. My one and only instance with cheating. i saw the devastation it could cause in my life (I really didn't like myself for it)and learned my lesson. I don't think it caused him any problems. When I met him he was a happy single man who stated he'd never settle down and he is still a happy single man who isn't settled down.


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## Halien

Arnold said:


> Oh, I thought you said that most women cheat because they ARE being treated horribly. I'll check that portion of my vows re the dispenation should I feel mistreated.


There is no justifiable excuse for cheating, but I notice that in too many cases where I've known marriages where cheating was involved, the vows only suddenly get brought up after the spouse has cheated. What about before, though? There are men who feel trapped in a relationship where their sexual needs no longer seem to matter. Women who live with cold emotional absences of their husband's partnership. None of this justifies cheating, but it sure would've been nice if they thought about the vows earlier? The part about loving and cherishing. 

In my opinion, That-girl was treated horribly. Takes a lot of courage to admit the circumstances that have shaped her into the person she is. 

It really doesn't solve anything, in my opinion, to judge her for something that really left painful memories of abuse and hurt.


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## Mike188

Halien said:


> There is no justifiable excuse for cheating, but I notice that in too many cases where I've known marriages where cheating was involved, the vows only suddenly get brought up after the spouse has cheated. What about before, though? There are men who feel trapped in a relationship where their sexual needs no longer seem to matter. Women who live with cold emotional absences of their husband's partnership. None of this justifies cheating, but it sure would've been nice if they thought about the vows earlier? The part about loving and cherishing.
> 
> In my opinion, That-girl was treated horribly. Takes a lot of courage to admit the circumstances that have shaped her into the person she is.
> 
> It really doesn't solve anything, in my opinion, to judge her for something that really left painful memories of abuse and hurt.


Like I said, women get support after having an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold

I think the operative word is "feel" trapped, Halien. In this day and age, any halfway bright adult knows that divorce is easily accessible.
And, on the women being emotionally neglected or the men sexually starved, those are stereotypes. It could very well be the reverse, as many women are starved for sex and men emotionally neglelcted.
But, like I said, there is a simple, honorable solution-divorce. If someone does not feel loved or cherished, there is no good reason they choose cheating over divorce. And, in many cases , the person feeling this way was probably just as guilty, if not moreso, of failing to love and cherish before he or she cheated. It's just with the difficulty they have facing who they are and what they did, the relationship history is , often, rewritten.


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## Halien

Mike188 said:


> Like I said, women get support after having an affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, if a man on this site was being attacked just so a poster could feel better because their own wife cheated, I would've said the same thing. There is no place for bullies or personal attacks on a site like this, with a deeply personal situation, if the person being attacked says repeatedly that she didn't wish to discuss the details. You just seem to take a stance that a woman should describe an affair in black and white rational thinking that men use, and feel no discomfort with telling anyone who asks about the own inner guilt they feel. When you say that you've never heard a woman say that what she did was wrong, instead of assuming that they feel no wrong, there is the other option that it is too personal to discuss with a casual acquantance, unlike how men communicate.


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## Halien

Arnold said:


> I think the operative word is "feel" trapped, Halien. In this day and age, any halfway bright adult knows that divorce is easily accessible.
> And, on the women being emotionally neglected or the men sexually starved, those are stereotypes. It could very well be the reverse, as many women are starved for sex and men emotionally neglelcted.
> But, like I said, there is a simple, honorable solution-divorce. If someone does not feel loved or cherished, there is no good reason they choose cheating over divorce. And, in many cases , the person feeling this way was probably just as guilty, if not moreso, of failing to love and cherish before he or she cheated. It's just with the difficulty they have facing who they are and what they did, the relationship history is , often, rewritten.


While I do not agree with cheating as an option, I did grow up in a household with emotional abuse. This feeling of being trapped is very easy for normal people to minimize. Me, I learned courage to step out on my own at 13, and live on the streets until I got caught after a mugging. I learned to be able to walk away, and personally, I learned integrity that will never let me cheat. Sometimes, that integrity comes through mistakes. It is pointless to tell a person that their own self-admitted mistakes are mistakes, though. 

Arnold, some people will never see the deep emotional scarring that can occur with a man or woman who has been cheated on. There is no excuse for that behavior. But some people make mistakes, and describe it in the subtle shades of gray that they felt at the time. I don't know why it matters that people on an internet site want them to word it in a black and white language, when the black and white context of it is what they use going forward, into the current relationship.


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## Arnold

I have been respectful toward that girl. I simply could not understand the concept of having no regret and still feeling it was wrong to do,etc.
I have found that many of the betrayed folks were themselves being emotionaly abused by the cheater even befor the cheating.


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## Arnold

Halien said:


> No, if a man on this site was being attacked just so a poster could feel better because their own wife cheated, I would've said the same thing. There is no place for bullies or personal attacks on a site like this, with a deeply personal situation, if the person being attacked says repeatedly that she didn't wish to discuss the details. You just seem to take a stance that a woman should describe an affair in black and white rational thinking that men use, and feel no discomfort with telling anyone who asks about the own inner guilt they feel. When you say that you've never heard a woman say that what she did was wrong, instead of assuming that they feel no wrong, there is the other option that it is too personal to discuss with a casual acquantance, unlike how men communicate.


Yes, but there does seem to be the female equivalent of the male justification, the "boys will be boys" drivel.
Rather than attributing it to sex drive or male entitlement, however, female cheating justification seems to go along the lines of "she must have been abused/negelcted for years and her only option was to cheat." Add to that that women's cheating is, often , characterized as a search for emotional intimacy vs sex, and some people find it almost a noble pursuit.
IMO, women have affairs for sex probably just as often as men do. It is just that there is such a social stigma atttached to a woman who admits craving sex for sex sake, that when they report about their cheating, they characterize it as the pursuit of intimacy.
I would venture that just as many men are emotionally starved in their marriages as women.


----------



## that_girl

Arnold said:


> I have been respectful toward that girl. I simply could not understand the concept of having no regret and still feeling it was wrong to do,etc.
> I have found that many of the betrayed folks were themselves being emotionaly abused by the cheater even befor the cheating.


You have been very respectful  I have not felt judged. I do not have anything to hide. This was 13 years ago and I am past that part of my life.

That being said, no one will know the hell that I lived in for 2 years with that man. No one. Oh, some people have an idea after spending a lot of time with him (and they told me such) but no one will know how small I felt when I walked out of the relationship. No one will know how long it took to get my self-esteem back. No one will know how long it took to find my voice again (as I was not allowed to talk when out with him and his friends). No one will know. And that's ok. I know. 

The fact is, I don't regret how things turned out...I guess that is the better way to state it. I do wish I had more integrity at that point, but the fact is I was in survival mode. Before I met him, I was a spunky, fun-loving, talkative woman-child (I was 21). I do not know why I dated him past the first date. It still baffles me. That night he told me it's people like me who make this world a ****ty place.  We were discussing politics. I should have walked out then and there. I remember my mom calling and asking how it was going with the "new guy". I told her I was ready to break up with him as he just wasn't right for me. Two days later I got a positive pregnancy test. I wanted to have a family for my child. Mistake. His first words to me were, "I'm not going to support you financially." His mother didn't even know I was pregnant (nor did I meet her) until I had the baby at the hospital. His close friends didn't know either. His brother didn't know until the baby was 5 months old. I was a secret. Not good enough (in my mind).

So...it was a huge mind F. Being who I am today, i would be able to see through all this and with integrity, kindly see my way out. But I simply wasn't ready for this type of stuff. I think he liked that. There's way more, but...why hash it out? lol.

So, I don't regret how things turned out, I just wish I would have been more on the up and up with him the moment the EA started...then I could have saved myself a ton of guilt for the years after. He had a gf about a month after we moved out  He didn't waste time. She left him though. And he got another. He always prided himself with how many women he'd been with. Our first time having sex, he said, "Wow, it's amazing how different all vaginas look." Yea. I really should have walked out the first week, if not sooner. But then i wouldn't have my daughter.

Life lessons....sometimes hard to learn, but always worth it.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Yes, but there does seem to be the female equivalent of the male justification, the "boys will be boys" drivel.
> Rather than attributing it to sex drive or male entitlement, however, female cheating justification seems to go along the lines of "she must have been abused/negelcted for years and her only option was to cheat." Add to that that women's cheating is, often , characterized as a search for emotional intimacy vs sex, and some people find it almost a noble pursuit.
> IMO, women have affairs for sex probably just as often as men do. It is just that there is such a social stigma atttached to a woman who admits craving sex for sex sake, that when they report about their cheating, they characterize it as the pursuit of intimacy.
> I would venture that just as many men are emotionally starved in their marriages as women.


Mine was not for sex. My mate made me feel so bad about sex, I didn't have it for almost a year after I left him. Mine was for human validation. the first time my friend told me he heard me and saw me, I broke down crying. I hadn't felt heard in 2 years. I felt invisible and disgusting for that long as well. Having someone hold me just to hold me was heaven. No sex. Just love.


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## that_girl

Arnold, I was not aware that your wife cheated on you. This explains a lot. I am sorry you are going through that.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Oh, I thought you said that most women cheat because they ARE being treated horribly. I'll check that portion of my vows re the dispenation should I feel mistreated.


Oh you edited this.  Yes, check your vows. lol. I had no vows to check.


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## that_girl

Mike188 said:


> Like I said, women get support after having an affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Men get support too. I stood by my uncle and drove him to lawyers, etc when his wife cheated on him. 

My husband had 2 friends who were cheated on (not marriage but long term) and we helped them by just keeping them busy. 

I have had one female friend think of cheating and I told her it's her choice, but I couldn't sit and watch it happen...I would have to stop the friendship for that time, maybe forever.


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## Arnold

Glad things turned out well for you, that girl(do you even remeber that show? You couldn't, unless you watched re-runs. Anne MArie, Donald Hollinger, Lew Marie, Brewster New York, etc).
My Xw sounds like your ex-BF in drag. I was told I was "like a woman" and "my husband has no penis"( I can still hear that one ringing in my ears.Nice,eh?). I could go on, but it was a nightmare.
In fact, in my more lucid moments, I realize just how big a favor she did me by cheating. It was my "bright line". I would have hung in forever, I expect, until she crossed that line. Saved my life. I was working three jobs in an effort to keep up with her spending(She had over 50 bikinis and hundreds of shoes etc).
I was getting 4 hours sleep, max, for years and heading for a heart attack,
MY issue withe the women cheating because they are abused concept is not that it does not happen, but it seems to imply that men are not getting the same treatment, in many cases.
Check out www.shrink4men or www.menwhoareabused for sites dealing with guys injured by BPD or NPD women.


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## that_girl

I love the show "That Girl", hence my name  I was a Nick at Night child 

Yea, after I was able to become the person I wanted to be and let go of past pains and guilt, my life started taking shape. I know my ex has issues (I wasn't allowed to touch him sexually...we only had intercourse) but those issues aren't my problem any longer and haven't been for 13 years.  

I remember the day he called me a stupid c*nt...that really woke me up. How did I allow myself to get into a situation where I was treated so poorly? I was not raised that way!..although, my mom does say some horrible things (that she won't admit but that's a whole other Oprah!).

All I know is my life has been about choices. Some good, some bad, but all things to learn from. 

I now know that people who abuse others are hurting as well. I was emotionally abusive to my husband because it was all I knew in times of trouble (no names, just true betchiness), until he moved out and I could see myself for what I was. I didn't blame him...I chose to fix myself and it's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulder. Therapy has worked wonders for me...and my issues all go back to my mother. I tried to talk to her about it, but to no avail. She won't admit any wrong doing and said, "You are so overdramatic. So sensitive. Get over things that happened years ago. You're not a victim." Thanks, Mom! And this is why I haven't talked to her in 3 months.

But I digress. lol. Thread jack? Sorry.


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## Arnold

Your mom also sounds like my XW. She had no idea why telling me I had no penis would hurt me. She also loved dousing me with freezing cold water when I showered or sneaking up behind me and dousing me when I was going out the door. I am serious. That woman is messed up.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> Your mom also sounds like my XW. She had no idea why telling me I had no penis would hurt me. She also loved dousing me with freezing cold water when I showered or sneaking up behind me and dousing me when I was going out the door. I am serious. That woman is messed up.


My mother never was physical (much) but she played mind games.

She still does.

And she still DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how when she read my diary when I was 16, then blasting the information around to me and others, would cause us to not be close...or why I have trust issues with her. When I bring it up, she says, "Oh get over it, that was a long time ago."

Or when i was 12 and she said my weight (I was a normal child looking back) made her embarrassed to be seen with me. I was anorexic for a long time...which got me TONS of compliments from her. Even now she comments on my weight every time I see her..as if it's ok. I have told her I don't like it, but she still does it. The woman respects no boundaries.

HA! My mother. Geesh. Wish me luck today. It's my daughter's 3rd birthday and my mom will be here. 

:scratchhead: My therapist says I'm doing the right thing by keeping her at an arms distance. She's very toxic and I've been a happier person and had a happier marriage without her in my life.


----------



## Halien

Arnold said:


> Yes, but there does seem to be the female equivalent of the male justification, the "boys will be boys" drivel.
> Rather than attributing it to sex drive or male entitlement, however, female cheating justification seems to go along the lines of "she must have been abused/negelcted for years and her only option was to cheat." Add to that that women's cheating is, often , characterized as a search for emotional intimacy vs sex, and some people find it almost a noble pursuit.
> IMO, women have affairs for sex probably just as often as men do. It is just that there is such a social stigma atttached to a woman who admits craving sex for sex sake, that when they report about their cheating, they characterize it as the pursuit of intimacy.
> I would venture that just as many men are emotionally starved in their marriages as women.



Arnold, I wasn't fair in suggesting that you were overly harsh, and I apologize. Its more about a question of what is right for the context. One of the saddest parts about reading so many of the infidelity posts is that a few of them begin with, "I had many issues in my marriage, but ..." and then 99% of the post is about the wife's actions. You lose the focus of twelve, fifteen or twenty years of a woman feeling like her marriage was a mistake, and many times, a man is just too beta to step up to the plate and fix it. So, she gets your typical one week attempts at her husband trying to improve, over and over again. If there are women who have had EA's before, this will be far more likely the kind that you find on a marriage improvement website.

Change that situation to people like you, and some of the men here who really, really tried and had a heart that could always forgive, and it is nothing less than a tragedy. I'd suggest that if you want to know what goes on in their mind, one of the forums for serial cheaters might give some insight. I once accidentally stumbled across one. I had to wash my hands over and over after leaving. Gross.

So, all I was getting at is that you have a number of different motives that led to cheating. Some people are just cheaters, and that's it. What I was trying to get to, and I'm probably fighting windmills, is that if you post a question about cheaters in a forum like this, then you are effectively asking for input largely from women who felt that they made a bad mistake, but were seriously hurt by years of emotional abuse or avoidance, and were really scared of divorce at the time. Frankly, the serial cheaters, or those who feel justified in cheating, prefer to spend their internet time in EAs, and social media, and would avoid this site like the plague. Given that, if you want a woman to answer your thread, shouldn't they feel safe in knowing that their situation will be treated with an inquiring, accepting standpoint with the assumption that a guy will probably just not understand how they felt at the time?

Yeah, I take it too far, I know. I think it comes with the territory of a software engineering degree, where so much of the focus is on identifying the profiles of people who visit a site and catering the context to them.


----------



## Mike188

that_girl said:


> Men get support too. I stood by my uncle and drove him to lawyers, etc when his wife cheated on him.
> 
> My husband had 2 friends who were cheated on (not marriage but long term) and we helped them by just keeping them busy.
> 
> I have had one female friend think of cheating and I told her it's her choice, but I couldn't sit and watch it happen...I would have to stop the friendship for that time, maybe forever.


I commend you for giving your friend good, solid advice. The guys you mention above, though, were cheated on, not the cheaters. I was saying that women tend to support women cheaters. Not always, but IMO more than men do. My stbxw does have one very close friend who has really become disgusted with her and they aren't really friends anymore. This woman and her husband have really been supportive of me and helped me a lot. She has one friend that is not happy about what happened but feels like she can't abandon their friendship, two friends that aren't sure what to make of it and one friend that is supporting her 100%.

The one that is supporting her the most was married to a serial cheater who used to sleep around with strippers and hookers (and is living with one now in her mobile home that she also uses to raise birds to sell to pet stores). She of all people should understand my side and not be so supportive of my wife. The first friend I mentioned (the one angry at my wife) says this friend is very gullible and my wife has her completely snowed.

Of course all of my wife's co-worker peeps say awful things about me because my wife tells me lies and half-truths to gain their sympathy and have them tel her what she wants to hear. The people who know me think I'm a good guy and have been a great husband and father and have always treated her very good. Those who don't know me know only what my wife tells them.


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## morituri

With the exception of omega, that_girl is the only female even engaging in this thread.:scratchhead:


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## that_girl

Mike188 said:


> I commend you for giving your friend good, solid advice. The guys you mention above, though, were cheated on, not the cheaters. I was saying that women tend to support women cheaters. Not always, but IMO more than men do. My stbxw does have one very close friend who has really become disgusted with her and they aren't really friends anymore. This woman and her husband have really been supportive of me and helped me a lot. She has one friend that is not happy about what happened but feels like she can't abandon their friendship, two friends that aren't sure what to make of it and one friend that is supporting her 100%.
> 
> The one that is supporting her the most was married to a serial cheater who used to sleep around with strippers and hookers (and is living with one now in her mobile home that she also uses to raise birds to sell to pet stores). She of all people should understand my side and not be so supportive of my wife. The first friend I mentioned (the one angry at my wife) says this friend is very gullible and my wife has her completely snowed.
> 
> Of course all of my wife's co-worker peeps say awful things about me because my wife tells me lies and half-truths to gain their sympathy and have them tel her what she wants to hear. The people who know me think I'm a good guy and have been a great husband and father and have always treated her very good. Those who don't know me know only what my wife tells them.


Oh, gotcha. 

I don't know any men who cheat. I did know one guy who was a serial cheater...on his gf of 10 years. They had a really messed up relationship and I didn't get involved. I just distanced myself from him because he was not the type of person I wanted to be around. 

I guess women give support to other women because women tend to talk about it more. I wouldn't support my friends in cheating. They know my stance and I wouldn't tell them what they want to hear anyway.

And it's been my experience that people who support a cheating person, male or female, do so because they are not happy in their own life and misery loves company.


----------



## Mike188

that_girl said:


> Oh, gotcha.
> 
> I don't know any men who cheat. I did know one guy who was a serial cheater...on his gf of 10 years. They had a really messed up relationship and I didn't get involved. I just distanced myself from him because he was not the type of person I wanted to be around.
> 
> I guess women give support to other women because women tend to talk about it more. I wouldn't support my friends in cheating. They know my stance and I wouldn't tell them what they want to hear anyway.
> 
> And it's been my experience that people who support a cheating person, male or female, do so because they are not happy in their own life and misery loves company.


MISERY LOVES COMPANY. You got that right. My wife has become very close with a female sales agent from her company in MA. Another agent in TN told me that this woman is bad news, a bad influence and that I need to get my wife away from her. They talk about two hours a day throughout the day. I find out later that this woman has slept with other agents and is in some kind of a screwed up on-again off-again marriage.


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## Lon

Interesting thread, I'm curious That Girl, (btw I also am not judging at all just curious to understand how different people think) you've admitted you had guilt at the time of your EA, even acknowledge "shame" but I'm curious how it doesn't sum up as regret. You obviously were checked out (barely checked in to begin it sounds like), and though you call what you did "cheating" and technically maybe it was, I wonder if deep down you don't consider what you did "cheating" at all? You say he didn't seem to care about your problem and didn't even call you his girlfriend, so I wonder if you don't have any regret because what you did wasn't at your core a case of infidelity?


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## that_girl

Because I don't believe in regrets. It's all choices. I chose to have an EA. I don't regret it because I chose it. It didn't "just happen". I let it happen. I will never regret loving my friend. 

Oh it was cheating. I should have put more effort into my mate's and my relationship IF NOT to just end it first. But at 24, a kid, no money, I was seriously screwed (or so I thought). It was cheating ONLY because it was deceitful. I cheated my mate (despite our relationship) out of honesty and that, imo, is cheating. 

Somehow i managed as a single mom (he took her 1/2 the week but I paid all my own bills when I left). I was stronger than I thought.

Which is why I don't regret it. My EA reminded me of who I was, what I was capable of, he woke me up from that coma I was living. I never felt so alive and even when we called it quits (because they were still friends), I never regretted it, nor he. It happened, we did it. We chose what we did. Doesn't make it right, but when you make a conscience choice, why regret it? Learn from it and if it was a bad choice, don't repeat it....that's how I look at life anyway.

My guilt came from knowing that I was not being the honest person I knew I was. My guilt came from hurting my child because I knew it would remove her from her dad's home. 

It was a big lesson for me and my friend. We couldn't talk for years after it was over-- still very painful to see each other (at the time for about 4 years afterwards). I was content in my life knowing that at least I had loved someone that much and someone loved me that much! Some people never experience that. I was fine, thinking that was my only chance at love. Then I met my husband and he blew everything I thought i knew about love out of the water...which is why I married him. He surpassed anything I had with my friend (which meant the world to me). This shocked the hell out of me because I truly didn't think i'd love this deeply, if not deeper, again. But I did and I am. 

It's ok to judge  I do not have any shame any longer. It was a long process to self loving and self healing. My friend (female) finally snapped me out of my shet after everything was said and done and said, "Be who you want to be! Cut the shet and live your life!" And I did...


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## that_girl

Regrets, to me, are things you harp on...things that keep you up at night. Things that plague your soul. Maybe my definition is not like yours.


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## Arnold

I understand , Halien. But, there are a couple things to consider,
First, a high% of the guys I have talked to are in Mike's situation, where the alleged emotional abuse or neglect is suspect, at best, and is the product of their wives rewriting the marital history to justify their cheating.
Second, I have found that in many cases , it is the women who is alleged to have been th abuser. In my own case, I am quite sure my XW characterized me as deficient in all types of areas, However, like Mike, the folks that really know me would disagree, I think(and that includes my XW's family0,
Your post seems to impy that it is up to the man, and that he is too beta, to fix the marraige if there is a problem. But, if we are equals and adults, should ot the responsibility lay with both parties.
Women can be terribly abusive, just like men. I would get days of silent treatments, rages, withholding of affections for months.


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## Halien

Arnold said:


> I understand , Halien. But, there are a couple things to consider,
> First, a high% of the guys I have talked to are in Mike's situation, where the alleged emotional abuse or neglect is suspect, at best, and is the product of their wives rewriting the marital history to justify their cheating.
> Second, I have found that in many cases , it is the women who is alleged to have been th abuser. In my own case, I am quite sure my XW characterized me as deficient in all types of areas, However, like Mike, the folks that really know me would disagree, I think(and that includes my XW's family0,
> Your post seems to impy that it is up to the man, and that he is too beta, to fix the marraige if there is a problem. But, if we are equals and adults, should ot the responsibility lay with both parties.
> Women can be terribly abusive, just like men. I would get days of silent treatments, rages, withholding of affections for months.


Sorry for the perceived implication that the man is usually the cause. Not what I intended. I am only saying that too many of the men I know just settle for mediocrity in their marriage. Too many think it is 'just not them' to ignite passion and keep it going. Too many let career, kids, and finances become their primary focus. Even here on this site, men actually act surprised when their wife doesn't like sex with them, even though their approach to sex is basically, "do you want to do it?" 

How wrong is it for men to try to be more alpha just to get more sex? Isn't it much better to be more alpha just to have the courage to think outside the box, and make their wife feel desired?

Just take some time to google the walk away wife syndrome. While I don't think it is ever justified for a woman to cheat in such a situation, I'm just saying that a man in such a place should not act like it was an incredible surprise. Every single time that a married woman has tried to cross the line with me, she has described it as feeling like she has been dead for too long. Every one of those women also described their husband as being 'not interested in anything but the type of sex you could buy from a prostitute'. I'm trying to be honest here, and recognize that it cannot even remotely describe every situation, but the only one that seems to be allowed on this site without bashing is the description of the evil woman complex. Intellectually and practically, it is possible to reconcile the fact that cheating is wrong with also having a very common situation where the marriage has been limping badly for years.


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## Mike188

I'm still at a loss for why my wife went off the deep end. I don't think it was sex as you mentioned. I was always the fun, adventurous one in bed. She always readily admitted that I carried the relationship in that department. 

I'm good friends with some of her friends and they don't think I'm a bad guy or have any faults that drove her away. They just don't get it why she went crazy. I have met with a marriage counselor every week for the past 2+ years and she has not told me about any major character flaws I have nor has blamed me for any of this. The only thing she said about me sharing any of the responsibility was that I wasn't consistent in putting my foot down and identifying my boundaries and then following through with the consequences. Maybe that makes me the proverbial "nice guy" or doormat. 

Whatever the reason she decided that she liked "them" more than me and it took her two years to finally make the decision go out on her own. I know she re-writes history (not saying you're doing this thatgirl) and demonizes me to her new peeps so that she can get their sympathy. One of her best friends told me that at their last get together for lunch she tried to put her spin on it but most of the women didn't buy it and know it's a case of one spouse have some kind of a mid-life crisis and going off the deep end. Our group of friends has seen this happen a lot recently to other people we know and usually there is the same stories from them (whether men or women) - I need to find myself, I couldn't be me, We don't compliment each other any more, I need so space to figure out what I want .....


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## Arnold

Yes, but , Halien, in mnay of the cases, the woman has specifically targeted the guy for the very reason that heis more beta. To expect him to re-invent himself may not be fair.
And, again, why is it totallythe fault of the man if the sex life is less than great. I can tell you that many men are using the same justifications for sex outside the marriage, that their wives are unresponsive or do not initiate.
It is a complicated issue that couples need to discuss. But, this notion that responsibility for the quality of the sex life lays entirely with men is not fair.
I have no doubt that the women that approach you mention this. But, have you ever really inquired of their mate whether it is true and how he feels about his wife's part in all this?


----------



## Halien

Arnold said:


> Yes, but , Halien, in mnay of the cases, the woman has specifically targeted the guy for the very reason that heis more beta. To expect him to re-invent himself may not be fair.
> And, again, why is it totallythe fault of the man if the sex life is less than great. I can tell you that many men are using the same justifications for sex outside the marriage, that their wives are unresponsive or do not initiate.
> It is a complicated issue that couples need to discuss. But, this notion that responsibility for the quality of the sex life lays entirely with men is not fair.
> I have no doubt that the women that approach you mention this. But, have you ever really inquired of their mate whether it is true and how he feels about his wife's part in all this?


I don't want to keep taking up your thread, so I'll leave it. 

Frankly, if the sex life slows down, I don't understand how the argument of whether or not she initiates even accomplishes anything. Since my wife and I don't use words to initiate sex, it is hard to tell who does. I think I make the first move almost every time, but she's never not available. After the first few years of marriage, my wife just didn't necessarily spontaneously feel desireable enough to initiate. For my wife, and some of the other women I was with before, there was a strong need to feel wanted, and desired, as a woman, which formed the foundation of any interest in sex. If this chemistry of being desired wasn't there, sex didn't rank high on her priorties. If it was there, she couldn't get enough. I don't list this in my top 100 needs, though. So the onus for meeting the strongly linked 'being desired as a woman part' is usually on me if this is her need. It just is. 

Practically, all the debates about whether she should initiate, or whether it is her job to keep the sex life going don't even accomplish a hill of beans if she doesn't feel desired as a woman. I seperated that need from the whole discussion of sex, and put it at the top of the list of "don't screw this one up, Halien" items. It works for us.


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## Arnold

I'd venture that some men would enjoy feeling desired by their wives, as well, Halien.


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## chillymorn

That girl,
I liked your other avitar much better. just sayin.


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## that_girl

chillymorn said:


> That girl,
> I liked your other avitar much better. just sayin.


Well, I'll send you a copy  lol jk.


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## chillymorn

that_girl said:


> Well, I'll send you a copy  lol jk.


ha ha ha, wasn't ready for that responce.


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## ArmyofJuan

I'm going off topic for a sec here...


that_girl said:


> My EA was strictly emotional attachment...and wasn't physical until after I left my ex. And wow. What an awesome Love that was. No intercourse though...our guilt kept us from that. (He was good friends with my ex, and he and I were good friends...omg what drama). But I'll never regret it. Ever. It showed me my capacity to love and I didn't settle for less with my husband. It took me 4 years to get over him. 6 months after I was over him, I met my husband. Perfect <3


Noticed you didn't marry your AP, they rarely do.

There was a survey done with like 1,000 professional men who had cheated on their Ws. Only 3% ended up marrying their AP and those had a 75% divorce rate.

I bring this up because when many people first find out about an A, they worry that their WS found "the one" or a "soulmate" and it makes them even more insecure. The realty is the OM/OW is only temporary 97% of the time and should be considered irrelevant. The AP usually only fills one void (emotional void that is) but fails at all the others that the BS had been doing for years.

Carry on...


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## a___girl

I can say with, 100% honesty, that I cheat. It's not a terribly uncommon thing.


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## that_girl

ArmyofJuan said:


> I'm going off topic for a sec here...
> 
> Noticed you didn't marry your AP, they rarely do.
> 
> There was a survey done with like 1,000 professional men who had cheated on their Ws. Only 3% ended up marrying their AP and those had a 75% divorce rate.
> 
> I bring this up because when many people first find out about an A, they worry that their WS found "the one" or a "soulmate" and it makes them even more insecure. The realty is the OM/OW is only temporary 97% of the time and should be considered irrelevant. The AP usually only fills one void (emotional void that is) but fails at all the others that the BS had been doing for years.
> 
> Carry on...


I didn't want to marry him. I wasn't married to my mate. I was not ready for marriage by a long shot. I never wanted to get married until I met my husband (in my 30s).


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## chillymorn

a___girl said:


> I can say with, 100% honesty, that I cheat. It's not a terribly uncommon thing.


pure honesty, a breath of fresh air.


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## Arnold

a___girl said:


> I can say with, 100% honesty, that I cheat. It's not a terribly uncommon thing.


We're happy for you.


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## that_girl

Arnold said:


> We're happy for you.


:rofl:

/sarcasm


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## SilverSiren

Arnold-
Definitely matters who the woman is- careful who you choose! I'm sure there are books about this- "how to choose a faithful wife" and such. Also, a bit of self examination wouldn't hurt- are you the kind of man who is painfully attracted to ladies who aren't the faithful type?
Big red flags for any potential wife are things like:
You meet a lady that has already left a husband for you or some other man.... or she is still married but is willing to leave him for you. if she didn't want to stick it out with the other man, why would she stick around with you when someone else starts to look better?


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## Arnold

Both my XWs had been OWs to married men before I met them. I knew this, yet ignored it. I was very foolish in that regard.


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## Runs like Dog

all the wives that cheat on you cheat.


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## a___girl

chillymorn said:


> pure honesty, a breath of fresh air.


Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zpac

Men cheat far more than women. As a man your woman cheating on you would be the least of your concerns.


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## chillymorn

zpac said:


> Men cheat far more than women. As a man your woman cheating on you would be the least of your concerns.


an you know this for a fact.

recent studies show the both genders cheat equally


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## ladybird

Infidelity Statistics - Truth About Deception

Given the secretive nature of infidelity, exact figures about cheating and extra-marital affairs are nearly impossible to establish. But, listed below are some of the most well-supported facts about cheating. All cited sources can be found on our reference page.

It is estimated that roughly 30 to 60% of all married individuals (in the United States) will engage in infidelity at some point during their marriage (see, Buss and Shackelford for review of this research). And these numbers are probably on the conservative side, when you consider that close to half of all marriages end in divorce (people are more likely to stray as relationships fall apart; also see, who is likely to cheat).
Research consistently shows that 2 to 3% of all children are the product of infidelity (see, Anderson). And most of these children are unknowingly raised by men who are not their biological fathers. DNA testing is finally making it easy for people to check the paternity of their children (see, paternity issues).
Infidelity is becoming more common among people under 30. Many experts believe this increase in cheating is due to greater opportunity (time spent away from a spouse) and young people developing the habit of having multiple sexual partners before they get married (see, young and restless - Wall Street Journal).
There are no definitive "signs of cheating." But, in hindsight you will always find them (see, signs of infidelity).
Some cultures have adopted extreme measures to combat infidelity: female circumcision, allowing only limited contact between the sexes, and death as a punishment. While many other cultures view infidelity as more of a nuance, not a serious marital problem (see, cultural perspectives - Msn).
Men are more likely to cheat than women. But, as women become more financially independent, women are starting to act more like men with respect to infidelity (also see, cheating wife, cheating husband, why men cheat, and why women cheat).
In many cases, infidelity never gets discovered (see, cheating spouse quiz).
Emotionally, it is possible to have feelings for more than one person at a time. Pragmatically, loving more than one person is difficult to do (see, polyamory - Truth, Lies, and Romance Blog).
As more and more women enter the work force, "office romances" are becoming more common. Spouses often spend more time with coworkers than with each other.
The internet, e-mail, and chat rooms are making it easier for people to engage in infidelity (see, online cheating).
The initial decision to be unfaithful is rarely ever a rational choice; instead infidelity is usually driven by circumstances and one's emotions. In fact, most people are surprised by their own behavior at the start of an affair (see, decision to cheat).
Emotional infidelity, compared to just physical infidelity, can inflict as much, if not more, hurt, pain and suffering. And to make matters worse, most infidelity involves both physical and emotional betrayal (see, what counts as cheating).
Unfortunately, many people find a more suitable mate (someone they love more than their spouse) after they are already married.
Biological evidence (i.e., research on biology and reproduction) indicates that long-term monogamy is difficult for humans to achieve - NOT impossible, but difficult (see, Barash and Lipton or the myth of monogamy - Salon.com).
Almost everyone admits to having fantasies that involve someone other than a spouse (see, Hicks and Leitenberg).
Jealousy is such a fundamental, universal emotion because infidelity has been a part of our human nature for a very long time


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## ladybird

I think it is equally. Woman cheat the same as men... 

However woman are more likely to leave their marriage for the other man. Where few man leave their wife's for the OW.


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## FirstYearDown

I believe that many more women cheat, than the surveys reveal. 

Women are more likely to hide facts, that can be interpreted as being "loose."


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## that_girl

FirstYearDown said:


> I believe that many more women cheat, than the surveys reveal.
> 
> Women are more likely to hide facts, that can be interpreted as being "loose."


And many women don't consider EAs to be cheating.


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## Jellybeans

No survey is ever going to get the accurate #/stat right because 1. a lot of people don't fess up to cheating, ea/pa or otherwise and 2. because it all depends on which group they are polling. i.e. one grouop may have more people admitting to cheating vs. another group. No way to tell ever "What % of wives/husbands cheat." Ever.


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## chillymorn

Jellybeans said:


> No survey is ever going to get the accurate #/stat right because 1. a lot of people don't fess up to cheating, ea/pa or otherwise and 2. because it all depends on which group they are polling. i.e. one grouop may have more people admitting to cheating vs. another group. No way to tell ever "What % of wives/husbands cheat." Ever.


This is true.

But studies of dna of families and surveys and other research tool can come up with a best guess


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