# How to deal with confused wife



## tpz

So I am feeling a bit alone and dont know what to do.

We have been married 23 years since our early twenties. I thought things were good with room for improvement, but was still stupidly shocked when 4 weeks back wife told me she has been having an affair.

She has been working for small business owner last 7 years, and I have been wanting her to leave for quite a while. I never felt comfortable with their relationship and the way she seemed to want his approval so much. With lots of encouragement from family/friends and insistance from me, she finally quits about 5 months ago.

Four weeks ago she rings me at work before I had left for the day and tells me she has been sleeping with him since that last day of work 5 months ago and they have "developed feelings for one another". That day he had told his wife about the affair (they have younger kids) and she kicked him out. My wife runs off to "comfort" him before I could get home.

Anyway he has second thoughts, not wanting to be separated from his kids, so returns home to his family begging to be taken back.

My wife then rings from the empty hotel room and asks to come back, which I agreed to.

I said we could work it out. Just one rule, no more contact. This has been broken with phone calls a number of times, blatantly even. I have blown up about it and made an ultimatem that any more contact and she is out. But I know their contact continues presently, they think in secret. I have proof of some (emails) and suspect even more (instant messaging). 

She says she loves me and is sorry, which I believe to an extent. But there isnt really any openess and honesty, but rather defensiveness and ongoing secrets and denials.

The messages I have intercepted have them talking about how much they love and miss each other, how bad it is with each spouse at home ("us vs the world" tone), how messed up and in need of help (counselling) each is, but above all how they could not possibly live without contact with each other. 

So, is this a lost cause?

I'm not being unreasonable about these two cannot be friends and have no contact right?

My wife is saying to me she is still very confused and doesnt know what she wants. She has agreed to start some counselling to see if it helps "unconfuse" her.

After learning of the affair I started out trying to block their contact and issue rules. This hasnt really worked it seems. So now I have thought of being nice, let her be somewhat for a while (she had more "freedom" before she told me of the affair anyway) and hope that counselling helps her see sense. Am I being naive that counselling might help here?

So do I: 

1) Keep up survelience, insisting, fighting my corner re no contact, and risk pushing her away?
2) Just kick her out and get the pain over quickly?
3) Keep the peace for now and hope the counselling helps her see sense?

I love her deeply and the thought of not having her in my life anymore is a scary one.

thanks,
TP.


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## Hicks

Why do you need continued survelience?

You need to file for divorce.

She is confused for the following reason.
1. You told her continued contact would result in divorce. She continues contact and it has not resulted in divoce. That is confusing to her.
2. She is confused becuase she is in complete control of whether she can choose you or him. It confuses her as to why two men would think she is so special considering she is really a horrible person.

So, you need to file for divorce. Let her have the clarity that you don't want her, and her man will not leave his wife for her. I would expect your life to change dramatically for the better once her confusion clears.


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## richie33

2. Send her back to the empty hotel room and then contact the other mans wife and let her know he is still contacting your wife.


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## PBear

I'm with Hicks. Your wife doesn't respect you, doesn't care about you or your marriage. Your best bet to fix your marriage is to have her served divorce papers, and wait for her to show true remorse. With the plan to follow through. 

What have you done to bust the affair?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thebadguy

richie33 said:


> ...contact the other mans wife and let her know he is still contacting your wife.


:iagree:

Do this today. Right now in fact.


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## LongWalk

The time for tough love is here.

VAR her car. Weightlifter will instruct you.

Go 180 on her.

Hit the gym to get in shape. Cut back alcohol. If you smoke, quit cold turkey. Get a new haircut. If you have beard shave it off. If you are clean shave, grow a beard.

Get back into your hobbies.

Do not be hostile, angry, etc. Definitely do not beg, plead or act needy.

In your attitude you are to spell it out: "I can go on in life and be happy without you."

Expose POSOM on Cheaterville.

Text:


> John Smith is a XX-year-old business owner who used his status as employer to engage a married subordinate into an affair. His wife kicked him out for a period of time. He begged to return home and was given a second chance by his wife. He and his former employee continue their affair in secret. She has small children who will be adversely affect by divorce.


Get his picture from Facebook. Add a couple of quotes about their love.

Oh, yes. File for divorce. You can probably do it yourself to save money. The point is not that you must divorce, but you must let her see that she risks losing her marriage.



> “Wolde ye bothe eate your cake, and haue your cake?”


If your wife's affair was not an exit affair, she may wish to return to you. However, by that time you may not want her back.


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## 86857

TPZ
Her behaviour is outrageous.

Right now she thinks you won't leave her no matter what. She has you right where she wants you - Plan B. You are currently at the mercy of both of them as is his wife.

No more Mr Nice Guy whatsoever. 

You've tried to be firm but it hasn't worked. The reason is there were no consequences for her. So you have to make some. 

Get some D papers. I know you don't want to D, you don't have to. Download some from the net and fill them out yourself if you have to. If she won't cut off contact with him, THEN you will have to D anyway because there isn't room for the 3 of you in your marriage. Right? 

Sit her down and wave them at her. Tell her if she doesn't cut off contact with OM IMMEDIATELY and write him a letter that you will write together and post together (or an email), all deals are off. Because this is the reality TPZ. If she doesn't stop the contact you can't even start MC or R or anything else. You'll be in limbo. 

You have to mean like you are doing it though because if she senses you look chicken about it you will have lost your best card. So don't do it until you feel ready to do so. 

Tell his wife immediately, as in yesterday that they are still in contact. 

Out your WS to everyone and I mean everyone. 

Your main aim now is to stop the affair because as long as they are in contact she's still having an A.

Keep up the snooping but don't mention anything to her about it. Even if you catch her again don't say anything. VAR her car if you can. Put a keylogger on her computer. Check her phone bills etc. 

Until the contact stops, you're stuck.

I know all this sounds hard and you may not be able to do it but she is still in the fog. 

Sorry you're here.


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## Miss Taken

tpz said:


> Anyway he has second thoughts, not wanting to be separated from his kids, *so returns home to his family* begging to be taken back.
> 
> *My wife then rings from the empty hotel room and asks to come back,* which I agreed to.


I hate to break it to you buddy, but you are her "plan B". He left her and she wanted to come back to you but only after he chose his wife over her.



tpz said:


> She says she loves me and is sorry, which I believe to an extent. But there isnt really any openess and honesty, but rather defensiveness and ongoing secrets and denials.


Your wife is still cheating and is not remorseful/sorry. A remorseful spouse will not continue to lie, won't continue to be secretive, will be fully transparent with their email, phone, whereabouts etc. they also don't get defensive and blame-shift for their affair - they own it. Don't believe her "sorrys" with no actions to back it up.



tpz said:


> The messages I have intercepted have them talking about how much they love and miss each other, how bad it is with each spouse at home ("us vs the world" tone), how messed up and in need of help (counselling) each is, but above all how they could not possibly live without contact with each other.


Poor them, two star-crossed lovers in a tragic love affair of forbidden love. If only you betrayed spouses weren't so messed up and went to counseling to fix your issues, they wouldn't be cheating together on you. It's your fault and they can't help it. GAG!



tpz said:


> So, is this a lost cause?


Right now it is but only time and your precise, calculated actions and her reactions to them will tell. So far, you've pretty much rug-swept the affair despite getting angry and blowing up at her.



tpz said:


> I'm not being unreasonable about these two cannot be friends and have no contact right?


Corretcamundo.



tpz said:


> My wife is saying to me she is still very confused and doesnt know what she wants. She has agreed to start some counselling to see if it helps "unconfuse" her.


This is foggy, fog-talk. Why are you letting your wife decide for you if you are good enough to be with? Is SHE good enough to be with YOU? Limbo is no place worth being.



tpz said:


> So now I have thought of being nice, let her be somewhat for a while (she had more "freedom" before she told me of the affair anyway) and hope that counselling helps her see sense. Am I being naive that counselling might help here?


Bzzzt, wrong! You can't "nice" your spouse out of an affair. All you'll do by encouraging more freedom is giving her a pass to go be with her OM. You also can't force your wife to stop contacting OM. What you can do is insist that she does and when she doesn't is enforce very swift, harsh and calculated consequences for her making the wrong choice.

Counseling when a spouse doesn't want to stop cheating or is "confused" is a waste of time and money. By all means, you go for yourself because you're dealing with a lot but don't bring her along to go through the motions. So long as she's in her affair, she won't get anything out of counseling except to be able to say that "she tried" and counseling didn't work so it's not her fault.



tpz said:


> So do I:
> 
> 1) Keep up survelience, insisting, fighting my corner re no contact, and risk pushing her away?
> 
> No point in the surveilance, you know she's cheating on you.
> 
> 2) Just kick her out and get the pain over quickly?
> 3) Keep the peace for now and hope the counselling helps her see sense?
> 
> I love her deeply and the thought of not having her in my life anymore is a scary one.
> 
> thanks,
> TP.



1. No point in continued surveilance when you already know she's cheating. You also can't police your spouse into being honest and faithful. All you will do by spying on her is continue to affirm what you already know.

2. Seems the most appropriate for an unremorseful, foggy spouse. You need to wake her up if you want to save this marriage. If you want to save this marriage, you will have to be willing to lose it. Right now, you are too scared to lose her. I hate to break it to you but the woman you love is already gone. She died, that was then and this is her now. You need to meet people where they are and right now, cheating, having sex and being in love with this other man is where your wife is.

3. I already said this is a waste of money and explained why.

Again, your wife is dead. That woman you loved is not your wife and you need to see her for who she is.


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## 6301

Here's what you do. Un confuse her. She wants this guy but is still clinging to you in case the affair dies. She already showed you her cards when she calls from the hotel room all by herself.

Now you made the rules of no contact and she agreed so see can come home. Now she has a roof over her head and still isn't satisfied with that, not to mention she is still confused so file for divorce, hand her the papers and tell her that she can go live in the hotel with the guy and put her out.

She looks at you like as her plan B and your letting her get away with it. Sit her down and tell her you aren't playing second fiddle to her and since she can't be trusted then she's no longer welcome and tell her to leave.

Don't play games with her. She won't play by anyone's rules but her own and if you let her, then you lose.


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## tom67

6301 said:


> Here's what you do. Un confuse her. She wants this guy but is still clinging to you in case the affair dies. She already showed you her cards when she calls from the hotel room all by herself.
> 
> Now you made the rules of no contact and she agreed so see can come home. Now she has a roof over her head and still isn't satisfied with that, not to mention she is still confused so file for divorce, hand her the papers and tell her that she can go live in the hotel with the guy and put her out.
> 
> She looks at you like as her plan B and your letting her get away with it. Sit her down and tell her you aren't playing second fiddle to her and since she can't be trusted then she's no longer welcome and tell her to leave.
> 
> Don't play games with her. She won't play by anyone's rules but her own and if you let her, then you lose.


Do the above and contact the omw as soon as possible.
You have to defog her by filing and asking her to move in with her om.
Show her you can live without her.


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## bryanp

If the roles were reversed would she be acting like you? You judge a person by their actions and not their words and her actions speak volumes. She does not love you. I would suggest:
1. Get tested for STD's.
2. See a lawyer for your options.

There clearly are no consequences for her behavior. She now clearly has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? By the way you can be sure that she did not start sleeping with him on her last day of work. She has been sleeping with him for a long period of time.


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## cool12

you're getting good advice here.
if she was sincerely remorseful she would not be contacting him at all. by continuing contact she is telling you she'd rather be with him than work on you marriage.

let her go and begin building a new life without her.
180.


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## Graywolf2

Do you have kids and how old are they?



tpz said:


> She has been working for small business owner last 7 years, and I have been wanting her to leave for quite a while. I never felt comfortable with their relationship and the way she seemed to want his approval so much. With lots of encouragement from family/friends and insistance from me, she finally quits about 5 months ago.
> 
> Four weeks ago she rings me at work before I had left for the day and tells me she has been sleeping with him since that last day of work 5 months ago and they have "developed feelings for one another". .


Your wife has been working with this guy for 7 years and you “never felt comfortable with their relationship.” They didn’t have sex for 7 years and then did the last day she worked with him? I find this very hard to believe.



tpz said:


> That day he had told his wife about the affair (they have younger kids) and she kicked him out. My wife runs off to "comfort" him before I could get home.


Your wife drops a bomb shell on you then immediately runs off to "comfort" the other man (OM) instead of you?



tpz said:


> Anyway he has second thoughts, not wanting to be separated from his kids, so returns home to his family begging to be taken back.
> My wife then rings from the empty hotel room and asks to come back, which I agreed to.


The only reason she called you was because the OM didn’t want her and you took her back?

Even if for some unknown reason you want to stay married to this woman who treats you like a POS, you need to kick her out now and file for divorce. That is the only way to get some amount of respect. 

Divorce is intentionally a long drawn out legal process to give people time to think about what they are doing. The process can be stopped at any point.

Tell her that you deserve a chance to find a woman who loves you as much as she loves the OM. Tell her that if the OM truly loves her he ultimately won’t be able to work things out with his wife and she needs to be free to join him. You just want her to be happy.

Ironically, this is the only way to keep her. 



tpz said:


> I'm not being unreasonable about these two cannot be friends and have no contact right?


If you keep acting like a total doormat (see above) she might live with you but she will be sneaking off to fu*k the OM as often as possible.


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## badmemory

tpz said:


> So, is this a lost cause?


With the way you have handled this so far, yes it is.

That "one" rule you gave her should have been for starters, but she violated it and you erased your line in the sand. To her, that makes you look weak and desperate - and diminishes her attraction for you all the more.

One "rule" is not nearly enough to avoid rug sweeping this. If you want to consider R down the road, there has to be a lot more than one. 

Most newly betrayed spouses make mistakes. That's understandable when you're devastated. But now is the time to correct those mistakes. If you want the best chance to save your marriage, you have to be willing to end it; and your wife has to understand what's it's like to lose her husband for cheating on him.

My advice is to implement the 180 to detach from her, talk to an attorney to "start" the divorce process, and formulate your exit plan. Then wait and see what she does. Unless or until she agrees to no contact; and you can verify it - there's no point in going into all the other things she would need to do for you to consider R and postpone the D. If she doesn't start to turn around, you have to keep going until the D is final.

If she does agree to no contact and starts demonstrating true remorse; check back with us. We can help you with identifying whether she is remorseful, along with the consequences she will need to receive and accept if she is.

Sorry you're here. Keep posting.


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## WorkingOnMe

Is she having sex with you? Same or better than the OM?


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## just got it 55

Its like ground hog day

only the names change

55


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## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> Is she having sex with you? Same or better than the OM?


And have you gotten an STD test if not get one soon.


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## jack.c

Great advice.... hope that you will listen...


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## mahike

you are plan B my friend. You need to play hardball with her. Start the 180, file for divorce, get into IC, get checked for STD's and make sure you expose the A to friends and family

Then you can start to think about R or D, she needs to know that you are in charge of what happens and you are not the second choice


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## just got it 55

mahike said:


> you are plan B my friend. You need to play hardball with her. Start the 180, file for divorce, get into IC, get checked for STD's and make sure you expose the A to friends and family
> 
> Then you can start to think about R or D, she needs to know that you are in charge of what happens and you are not the second choice


Yes end her "confusion"

55


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## lifeistooshort

Don't make threats you aren't willing to back up, because now you have zero credibility. You threatened divorce if she contacted him again, she called your bluff and you caved. Now she believes nothing you say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thummper

Sorry, TMZ, but I think that she's checked out of the marriage. The ONLY reason she came back is because the om dumped her. As soon as they can be together again, you can bet she'll dump YOU. Best to maybe beat her to the punch and save yourself a lot of misery and heartbreak. Just file for D and get it over with. She'll probably cry and plead and beg, but don't fall for it. It's all a show as she works her way through her "confusion" and decides you aren't what she wants. Let her go get what she wants. Not too late for you to start over with someone who will respect and love you.


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## Chaparral

Didn't he say she doesn't know their back in contact? 

Tell her you just found out they never stopped contact. Then offer to help her pack.

Download a divorce packet for your state and let her see that too.

Not sure why you would want her or why you think it just went sexual. How did you get that info?


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## walkonmars

Don't believe a word she says... including that the affair started the day she quit..... that's so unlikely - What's more likely is that the affair started years ago but since the work-alibi was no longer viable and had to meet him in hotel rooms, she told you what was convenient. 

Inform the OM's wife and cut yours loose. Pronto.


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## warlock07

Change the roles for a bit..

Lets say you are cheating on your wife with a coworker. Finally one day, you decide to make it official and tell your spouses.. You tell yours and she tells hers..Her husband kicks her out immediately. Your wife is heart broken and shocked. You then start planning for the rest of the life together. But then there is a twist. Your lover has second thoughts...Her husband kicked her out and won't give her access to the kids. Also, her family hates her. Her kids are more important than her love and she begs her husband to take back. That even though you are the love of her life, she is _sacrificing her love_for the kids. So, now you lost your lover and your wife. So having been dumped, you ask your wife to take you back. She agrees and you move back. But you keep contacting your lover behind her back. Both of you keep telling one another that you are soul mates and meant for one another but cannot due the cruel circumstances. You probably keep meeting her when you can behind your wife back. 

Once in a while your wife finds out that you are still in contact with this woman. She gives you an ultimatum. You have to go NC with this woman who wrecked your family or she will divorce you. You agree yet you continue the secret meetings and phone calls. You get caught again. She gives you one more ultimatum...The cycle repeats a few times. You soon realize that your wife ultimatums are empty threats. She is too scared to actually divorce you. So you realize that you can actually continue the affair full term without any worry of consequence. So you keep giving her some silly excuse to continue the affair(I am confused who I want ). After all, if the affair does not work out, you will have your wife anyway. So you can try if the affair is better option or not. if it is, you dump your wife. or you have your fun and come back to your wife. You win either way.


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## happyman64

Time for some tough love TPZ.

Are you ready to fight for your family?

Let us know if you are?

Also, a little more detail about your family would be helpful.

ages, kids

HM


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## ArmyofJuan

tpz said:


> My wife is saying to me she is still very confused and doesnt know what she wants. She has agreed to start some counselling to see if it helps "unconfuse" her.


File for a divorce, see how quickly she becomes "unconfused".

Don't wait in limbo, any time she says "I don't know" take that as a "no" and go from there. You have way more power than you think but you will blow it if you give her any control. 

Remember she only wants you back because the OM dumped her, don't let her play you for a sap. It's your way or the highway and point her to the door if she doesn't like it.

She cheated on you which is justification for a divorce, she should be lucky you even speak with her. She has to prove herself worthy of keeping the M intact and if she doesn't then let her go.


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## Dyokemm

"After learning of the affair I started out trying to block their contact and issue rules. This hasnt really worked it seems. So now I have thought of being nice, let her be somewhat for a while (she had more "freedom" before she told me of the affair anyway) and hope that counselling helps her see sense. Am I being naive that counselling might help here?"

Doing this will most likely result in the restarting of the A and the end of your M.

You cannot 'nice' your WW out of this A.

The only chance you have is to show her that she is losing her life and family immediately.

Expose her A to all friends and family.

File for D ASAP.

Only speak to her concerning children or the D proceedings.

She has to see her life as she knows it is about to end to have any chance of waking her up.

Otherwise, she will continue to cake-eat.

Oh, and as far as POS is concerned.

If he has a small business, post a review on Angie's List and other similar websites warning the public that he is a POS who can't keep his hands off other mens' wives, so potential customers might want to rethink doing business with him.

Start making it painful for him to continue as well.


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## tulsy

Only thing you can do is file for divorce and blow up the affair...nuclear. Tell everyone and their brother, starting with the OM's wife. Send her all of the info that you have.

She is currently just using you. You are barely even plan-B.

You HAVE to file. Even if you wanted to save this marriage, you HAVE to be willing to lose it. You can't save it on your own...it takes 2 people, and SHE has to be fighting for it OR IT JUST WON'T WORK.


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## Cubby

Take control of the situation. Now YOU'RE going to be the one who calls the shots, not your "wife." That means file for divorce now. (Don't worry, you have plenty of time to call it off, if you wish.) 

Don't be one of those guys who waits around hoping to be the one she picks. ("pick me, pick me...please???") 

A man who respects himself is a man who will not tolerate another man effing with his marriage and acts in a firm and decisive manner. That kind of man is attractive to women. The guy who waits around hoping his wife comes around and talks all relationship-y stuff, not so much.


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## Cubby

Also, once you file for divorce and expose it to everyone, your wife might not seem like such an attractive option for the other man. Now it becomes too real. The affair was fun and fantasy and secretive and exciting. Make this as sobering as possible, and then we'll see how appealing your wife is to this guy.


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## barbados

tpz said:


> She has been working for small business owner last *7 years,* and
> 
> I have been wanting her to leave for quite a while. I never felt comfortable with their relationship and the way she seemed to want his approval so much.
> 
> Four weeks ago she rings me at work before I had left for the day and tells me she has been sleeping with him since that last day of work 5 months ago and they have "developed feelings for one another".



You do realize this affair was on going while they worked together. The part about it just starting AFTER she left is pure fantasy.


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## tpz

Thank you so much everyone for your responses. Thanks for taking the time! I'm in a diff timezone so only just getting to see them now and will take time to consider them all.




barbados said:


> You do realize this affair was on going while they worked together. The part about it just starting AFTER she left is pure fantasy.


Yes I agree, and unfortunately its another thing shes not honest about.


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## tom67

See her reaction when you ask her to take a polygraph.
You may get the rest of the story.


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## bfree

tpz said:


> So do I:
> 
> 1) Keep up survelience, insisting, fighting my corner re no contact, and risk pushing her away?
> 2) Just kick her out and get the pain over quickly?
> 3) Keep the peace for now and hope the counselling helps her see sense?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks,
> TP.


4) Expose, expose expose!


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## phillybeffandswiss

If she can't stop contact, you can by not being there to know. His contact effects both of you so, remove yourself from the equation. Taking sex out of the problem (1+1)+1=2 is not a true statement for a person that wants a monogamous relationship. If the other 1's can't be removed, take your one to the proper 1+1=2.


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## tpz

Ok, told her I'm not going to deal with the ongoing dishonesty anymore. She says she will move out today.

D papers printed and shown to her. She rang me from the car on the way to her new job and is in shock. Good.

Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Wow, that was a quick reaction.

You'll need to calm down, rest as best you can, see a doctor and prepare for what comes next. The raw emotions and the fighting have just begun.


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## Graywolf2

tpz said:


> Ok, told her I'm not going to deal with the ongoing dishonesty anymore. She says she will move out today.
> 
> D papers printed and shown to her. *She rang me from the car on the way to her new job and is in shock*. Good.
> 
> Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


Whether you want to ultimately divorce her or not, this is good news indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if she delayed moving out. She will find one excuse after another.

She is in the “fog” now and wants to think that there is still a chance for a life with the OM. Their continued contact encourages this. If you want a divorce encourage this dream of hers. Tell her that you have better things to do than constantly check up on her and that she and the OM obviously meant for each other. She will give you better terms to be free to join the OM. Once she is out of the fog, the terms will not be as good.

Cancel any joint credit cards. Apply for new ones in your own name and tell her to do the same.

Congratulations. You da man :smthumbup:


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## MattMatt

tpz said:


> So I am feeling a bit alone and dont know what to do.
> 
> We have been married 23 years since our early twenties. I thought things were good with room for improvement, but was still stupidly shocked when 4 weeks back wife told me she has been having an affair.
> 
> She has been working for small business owner last 7 years, and I have been wanting her to leave for quite a while. I never felt comfortable with their relationship and the way she seemed to want his approval so much. With lots of encouragement from family/friends and insistance from me, she finally quits about 5 months ago.
> 
> Four weeks ago she rings me at work before I had left for the day and tells me she has been sleeping with him since that last day of work 5 months ago and they have "developed feelings for one another". That day he had told his wife about the affair (they have younger kids) and she kicked him out. My wife runs off to "comfort" him before I could get home.
> 
> Anyway he has second thoughts, not wanting to be separated from his kids, so returns home to his family begging to be taken back.
> 
> My wife then rings from the empty hotel room and asks to come back, which I agreed to.
> 
> I said we could work it out. Just one rule, no more contact. This has been broken with phone calls a number of times, blatantly even. I have blown up about it and made an ultimatem that any more contact and she is out. But I know their contact continues presently, they think in secret. I have proof of some (emails) and suspect even more (instant messaging).
> 
> She says she loves me and is sorry, which I believe to an extent. But there isnt really any openess and honesty, but rather defensiveness and ongoing secrets and denials.
> 
> The messages I have intercepted have them talking about how much they love and miss each other, how bad it is with each spouse at home ("us vs the world" tone), how messed up and in need of help (counselling) each is, but above all how they could not possibly live without contact with each other.
> 
> So, is this a lost cause?
> 
> I'm not being unreasonable about these two cannot be friends and have no contact right?
> 
> My wife is saying to me she is still very confused and doesnt know what she wants. She has agreed to start some counselling to see if it helps "unconfuse" her.
> 
> After learning of the affair I started out trying to block their contact and issue rules. This hasnt really worked it seems. So now I have thought of being nice, let her be somewhat for a while (she had more "freedom" before she told me of the affair anyway) and hope that counselling helps her see sense. Am I being naive that counselling might help here?
> 
> So do I:
> 
> 1) Keep up survelience, insisting, fighting my corner re no contact, and risk pushing her away?
> 2) Just kick her out and get the pain over quickly?
> 3) Keep the peace for now and hope the counselling helps her see sense?
> 
> I love her deeply and the thought of not having her in my life anymore is a scary one.
> 
> thanks,
> TP.


Put him on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know. By the way, Cheaterville has a feature where you can email the link to all of his contacts. :FIREdevil:


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> That day he had told his wife about the affair (they have younger kids) and she kicked him out.


The OM's wife has more balls than you?

Is that what we should assume here? Of course not!

IF OM's wife can do it, so can you.

Insist your wife leave.

Show her what divorce looks like up close and personal.


----------



## sidney2718

tom67 said:


> See her reaction when you ask her to take a polygraph.
> You may get the rest of the story.


I'd wait with this. He needs to file for divorce. If she decides to come back, then he can insist on a polygraph. Right now, why should she agree to one?


----------



## Wolf1974

tpz said:


> Ok, told her I'm not going to deal with the ongoing dishonesty anymore. She says she will move out today.
> 
> D papers printed and shown to her. She rang me from the car on the way to her new job and is in shock. Good.
> 
> Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


Smart about the CC

Get 1/2 your money out of all accounts immediately as well


Good luck


----------



## LongWalk

Well done, TPZ.

Your wife is shocked that you are standing up for yourself. She is still in love with POSOM, but now that you no longer accept being her cuckold husband, she must try to convince this charming gentleman to leave his wife and shack up with her. He may not be enthusiastic, for he will have to spend all sorts of money on divorce. Even if he loves your wife, he is a businessman who can see that fighting his wife and meeting your wife's emotional needs will drain him financially and spiritually.

But if their love triumphs all obstacles, someday you may forgive her when you are indifferent. However, while love still exists for her and your family you must feel anger.

You don't like her psycho dog. Good. Now is your chance to get rid of it. Tell your wife that she must take the mutt or it goes to the (in)humane shelter to meet its maker. She will think you are cruel. Just reply that you put up with dog because you were married to her. Now that it is ending, the dog has no place in your life.

The dog has emotional significance to her. It will help to dispell the fog. POSOM does not want to bang your wife with the neurotic hound whining in the background in some cramped love nest apartment.

Post him on CV and he will probably dump your wife.


----------



## Chaparral

Accept this as a fact. She wasn't confused at all, she was waiting to see if her Posom would finally leave his wife.

She IS confused now. You just ripped her distant plan B out from under her.

Good job, put him on cheaterville.com. If he wants to play you for a fool and destroy your family, let him pay the price. Forget letting him have two women on the cheap.


----------



## LongWalk

Yes, and on the Cheaterville post you can post a picture of the dog. And add:

"The husband has taken the opportunity provided by the destruction of his marriage to transfer the family dog, which he never liked, to Frank Parker (or whatever POSOM's name is). Parker received the animal as part of the deal."


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


Make her take the dog too. You are not there to work as caretaker while she plays around behind your back... despite these two manipulating you into that position.

Cancel all credit cards and secure all finances. Move any shared money into a safe account.

Lock it all down. She will spend it and use it if you don't.

You don't want any money fueling an affair any longer.

Shut it all down.

Do NOT warn her.

Do NOT inform her.

Just DO IT.

From now on, put her on a needs-to-know basis only. This is the same policy she's had you on for months.

Do NOT let her provoke you into any arguments. She will provoke you into giving away your plans.

Don't.

Just pull out your cell phone and call a friend while she packs. Act like you don't care at all.


_Say nothing. Share ZERO information_.

It is time for you to turn the tables. Now she is going to be out of YOUR loop. Watch her struggle with that for a while.

This affair won't last long if you shut her down.

This guy does not have the maturity to keep that going.. he has a wife and kids to deal with of his own. He won't be able to handle it all.

Trust us, this will fall apart.

Shut your finances down.

Shut your wife out.

Make popcorn.

Watch the affair fall apart.


----------



## MattMatt

Allen_A said:


> I guess the OM's wife has more balls than you?
> 
> Is that what we should assume here?
> 
> IF OM's wife can do it, so can you.
> 
> Fear is your friend. Make fear your best friend.
> 
> Don't let fear control you. But do embrace it rather than running from fear.
> 
> Insist she leave.
> 
> Show her what divorce looks like up close and personal.


Either that or he was on a final warning due to previous affairs?


----------



## Allen_A

MattMatt said:


> Either that or he was on a final warning due to previous affairs?


Either way, this affair they are having now is gonna fall apart awful fast if he shuts his wife down and keeps his business to himself.

Too much responsibility too quickly.

Those two selfish people won't handle that much reality that quickly.

They will take their stress out on each other.

And BOOM.

Over. It will fizzle out.. fight after fight, night after night...


----------



## po'drunk

wow, I was going to say the title of this thread should be "how to play a confused husband" but you pulled it out with a last minute reversal.
good for you. now take care of yourself. eat, sleep, get some exercise.


----------



## lovelyblue

Tell your wife that you want access to everything-(E-mail cell phone Facebook/twitter if you have it)


----------



## tpz

po'drunk said:


> wow, I was going to say the title of this thread should be "how to play a confused husband" but you pulled it out with a last minute reversal.
> good for you. now take care of yourself. eat, sleep, get some exercise.


Thankyou, after reading everyones responses this morning it helped me see how confused I was.


----------



## bandit.45

tpz said:


> Thankyou, after reading everyones responses this morning it helped me see how confused I was.


You are doing good brother. You took the initiative and won the day's battle. The war has yet to be won. 

Don't feel bad about being confused. You are experiencing the same trauma that a soldier experiences after a bloody firefight. Calm down, get some rest and take care of your immediate needs. 

Talk to someone... someone you can confide in.


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> Thankyou, after reading everyones responses this morning it helped me see how confused I was.


It is VERY important right now that you do NOT share your thoughts or plans or anything with your wife.

You will WANT to SCREAM at her.

Don't.

That is the last thing you want to be doing.

Keep QUIET.

Say NOTHING.

Share NOTHING.

SILENCE is how you get through this next phase.

Anything she wants to know that seeeeeeeeeeems reasonable you just say this :

_I will think about it and I will get back to you.
_

Anything at all, and the answer's the same. If she keeps pushing your buttons. Open your phone and call a friend.. anyone... that gets her away from you.

Do NOT let her provoke you into shouting your plans or giving anything away.

If you have every played poker it is VERY important right now that you do NOT show her your CARDS.

You are going to intimidate her with silence and distance.

Just SHUT DOWN.

Shut down finances.

Shut down the home.

Shut down you.

Go quiet, keep your game face on.

And wait for her to sweat.

She WILL start to sweat.

Let her.

When she leaves, you start eating right, you start exercising, and you start focusing on healthy outlets while those two scramble about trying to get their bearings.

Congratulations. You just pulled the rug out from under their affair.

That is not easy.

But it's the best way to deal with the situation. Just have patience.

It may take several months for this to make sense, but you will be glad you did what you did today.


----------



## bandit.45

*The 180:*

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new betrayed person begin these behaviors as soon as possible. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that they are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? without them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment.

Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying!

Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you!
More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person.

This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life.

Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


----------



## jim123

tpz said:


> Ok, told her I'm not going to deal with the ongoing dishonesty anymore. She says she will move out today.
> 
> D papers printed and shown to her. She rang me from the car on the way to her new job and is in shock. Good.
> 
> Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


Good job. You need to get control.


----------



## 86857

tpz said:


> Ok, told her I'm not going to deal with the ongoing dishonesty anymore. She says she will move out today.
> 
> D papers printed and shown to her. She rang me from the car on the way to her new job and is in shock. Good.
> 
> Managed to grab my credit cards from her purse before she left. Wanted to minimise my financial exposure as I will need to continue payments on this house. Its home to my 2 adult kids who are at Uni. Oh, and her stupid phsycho dog.


TPZ, you're a champion - you truly are. Wow! I don't think I ever saw a poster act on advice here so swiftly. You had a lot of posts. And all of us can't be wrong. Most of us have been there. Hindsight is great. So many of us on here wish we had done it differently & knew about TAM. You have the benefit of posters' hindsight. 

Ain't nothing like waving them D papers around now is there, even if they're not 100% kosher heh! heh!. It's the best way I know to make a BS sit up and take notice. 

Main thing is you stood up to her because she was treating you like a piece of dirt. She's in shock? Perfect. So she thought she could live under your roof and continue her A by keeping in contact with OM??? You have now put her right on that. 

Which ever way this goes you have done the right thing. She needs to be begging YOU to come back. So you will have to hold onto that resolve and it won't be easy. Your emotions are running high so post on here for support because you seem to have a lot of fans. . Get some IC to help you through or call in a good friend/family member for onsite support. You need that too. 

Now go and see a lawyer for real (if you just printed the D papers from the web) to check out what the upshot would be financially. You are now one step ahead of her and keep it that way. 

The main reason for waving the D papers is to break up the affair. The next thing that is suggested is to out her to everyone. Your friends and family were already worried. Your Uni aged kids will know anyway when she moves out. Outing is done because it's the second biggest thing after a divorce threat, a genuine one, that breaks up the affair and propels the BS out of the fog. 

Make sure his wife knows too. That also helps kill the A. I feel so sorry for her having young kids. 

Just as you have had to put up with the cruelty of all this, OW will have to start owning what she did. It was all her way up to now. Time for her to suffer. You are waving D papers and OM has gone back to his wife. 

I too think it was going along a lot longer than what she has said. BS almost NEVER tell the truth. Perhaps check her phone bills and emails back a few years. 

One thing you can smile at is that OM was pretty hasty about running back to his wife. Seems he doesn't love BS as much as she thought he did.  For him married with young kids sure the sex can suffer. Sounds as if BS was his mistress, his plaything though she would have never thought that. Mistresses always think someone's husband loves them until push comes to shove and it's the mistress gets the shove. As sure as night follows day in 99% of cases.

I've said enough. Now you have a choice because you didn't before. Once again, "Well done". :smthumbup:


----------



## carpenoctem

TPZ:

*In a single step – you have changed the scenario from you winning her back, to her winning you back, if at all.*

The very fact that she was shocked by your Divorce intimation means: she thought you might try to live with it as long as it is decided upon by her and the OM, or you might beg to have her back if she ‘decides to give you another chance (= if the OM bails on her), etc.

She never credited you with this level of self-respect and determination. You showed her.

Now, whether you reconcile or divorce, you can negotiate your relationship from a position of strength.

Best of luck, TPZ.

*Be ready for a lot of appreciation / adulation here (on TAM).*


----------



## Graywolf2

Now you can take all the time you want to decide to R or D. In fact some people spend years in R and ultimately D. 

The classic R is to help your remorseful (required) spouse get out of the fog (addiction) for their affair partner (AP). You do this by strictly monitoring that they have no contact (NC) with each other. It like tying up a heroin addict while they go through withdraw. Checking their texts, email, ect. is a lot of work for you and a favor to the wayward spouse (WS).

If I were you I would be tempted to act in a non-traditional manner. Your wife planned to start a new life with the OM and the only thing that stopped her was the OM chickening out. You gave her a second chance but she broke the NC agreement. 

I would rub the OM's rejection in her face by telling her she should be with him. That way she can’t blame you for them being apart. The entire fault belongs with the OM. She can contact him all she wants and you really don’t care. The OM is then no longer forbidden fruit. 

Make two points over and over. You can never trust her again (in fact that was the final nail in the coffin of your relationship) and part of you still loves her and just wants her to be happy. If the OM makes her happy, so be it. 

Wish her a good life and be unemotional. You could even ask your wife to deliver a message to her OM. Have her tell him that there are no hard feelings and you hope that they will be very happy together. That would really rub it in and make the point once more that it’s the cowardly OM that is keeping them apart. He doesn't love her as much as she thought.

If she wants to get back together someday she will have to convince you that’s it’s a good idea. Be very very hard to get. 

One last thing. Tell her that the story of the affair starting the last day they were working together is insulting. Demand that she have enough respect for you to at least tell the truth about that.


----------



## WhiteRaven

You still want her back?


----------



## Ripper

Don't waste anymore time on her. You could walk into a SuperMax prison and find a better spouse.

Your kids are grown. Expose to every one. File for divorce, at fault if possible. Then live your life anyway you please.


----------



## Thorburn

Awesome. I thought we would have to hit you with a hickory axe handle, but your turn around surprised me. 

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Do the 180 hard.
3. Get all your accounts in order.
4. I suspect this affair was quite a bit longer then she said, remember, that cheater's lie, and lie and lie. Don't believe a word she says.
5. Put the dude on cheaterville. Expose this more.
6. Don't share what you are doing with your WS. Keep your cards close.
7. Don't give in to any of your WS's pleads, complaints, or whatever she may throw at you.


----------



## 86857

How are you doing TPZ?

Don't worry if you ending up meeting her and you are starting to make up and so on. 

It happens, all the time. This ride is a helluva rollercoaster. We show heaps of resolve one day and hell the next, we show none at all. Simply because we are human. And what is happening to us is inhumane. 

Just saying it cos you are such a hero on here that you may feel you need to be following all the advice to a T. Of course you don't, you do in the end what you can at the time & what feels right. 

Anyway just thought I'd say that. Whatever is going on you have lots of support on here & you don't have to be a hero! You just have to be you.


----------



## tpz

********** said:


> How are you doing TPZ?
> 
> Don't worry if you ending up meeting her and you are starting to make up and so on.
> 
> It happens, all the time. This ride is a helluva rollercoaster. We show heaps of resolve one day and hell the next, we show none at all. Simply because we are human. And what is happening to us is inhumane.
> 
> Just saying it cos you are such a hero on here that you may feel you need to be following all the advice to a T. Of course you don't, you do in the end what you can at the time & what feels right.
> 
> Anyway just thought I'd say that. Whatever is going on you have lots of support on here & you don't have to be a hero! You just have to be you.


Thank you **********, and thank you everyone, the support is so appreciated! 

Its been crazy busy, so havent had a chance to stop by and update. Even this will be quick, will need to set aside some time tomorrow to take stock.

Firstly, I want to say I feel so much better. I'm more confident, calmer, fewer moments of sadness and dwellng, and those have been kept to myself. I now feel more in control of MY life, and feel less need to try and control her. That 180 stuff is amazing, no idea how much affect it has on her, but its working for me 

Got a really good nights sleep last night, given up the drink for now and just got back from the gym.

Well the D paper waving and asking her to move out certainly started a ruckus yesterday. I texted the other wife about it and let her know they were in continual contact. She gets in her car and goes around to his work to confront him. Wish that was on youtube.

The other wife then called me and we spent ages swapping notes. These 2 clowns cant even get their lies in synch, like the most obvious, when did the affair start!. We have swapped msgs again today and caught both cheaters out with further contacts and lies.

My wife is pleading for no D, but isnt fighting me on my asking her to move out. She is still here for now, but sleeping on the couch and was applying for rentals this evening. Beats me how she is going to afford it on her wage, but then she may end up with him anyway.

Turns out its no-fault D here and a min separation of 12mths is reqd before the application can even be lodged. She dont know this yet though.

She actually seems more genuinely sorry and less defensive, I think that is the 180, but the fact she is not pleading to stay means to me the separation is the right thing.


----------



## Graywolf2

OP, you are doing everything right. Even if she were to plead to stay, the correct thing would still be to have her move out. She needs to see in a concrete way that her life has changed because of her actions.



tpz said:


> She has been working for small business owner last 7 years, and I have been wanting her to leave for quite a while. I never felt comfortable with their relationship and the way she seemed to want his approval so much. With lots of encouragement from family/friends and insistance from me, she finally quits about 5 months ago.


Due to the above, I thought of a good line you should use on your wife.

*“For 7 years you have been more his wife than mine.”*

This is a true statement even if it was only an EA for part of that time.


----------



## 86857

tpz said:


> Thank you **********, and thank you everyone, the support is so appreciated!
> 
> Its been crazy busy, so havent had a chance to stop by and update. Even this will be quick, will need to set aside some time tomorrow to take stock.
> 
> Firstly, I want to say I feel so much better. I'm more confident, calmer, fewer moments of sadness and dwellng, and those have been kept to myself. I now feel more in control of MY life, and feel less need to try and control her. That 180 stuff is amazing, no idea how much affect it has on her, but its working for me
> 
> Got a really good nights sleep last night, given up the drink for now and just got back from the gym.
> 
> Well the D paper waving and asking her to move out certainly started a ruckus yesterday. I texted the other wife about it and let her know they were in continual contact. She gets in her car and goes around to his work to confront him. Wish that was on youtube.
> 
> The other wife then called me and we spent ages swapping notes. These 2 clowns cant even get their lies in synch, like the most obvious, when did the affair start!. We have swapped msgs again today and caught both cheaters out with further contacts and lies.
> 
> My wife is pleading for no D, but isnt fighting me on my asking her to move out. She is still here for now, but sleeping on the couch and was applying for rentals this evening. Beats me how she is going to afford it on her wage, but then she may end up with him anyway.
> 
> Turns out its no-fault D here and a min separation of 12mths is reqd before the application can even be lodged. She dont know this yet though.
> 
> She actually seems more genuinely sorry and less defensive, I think that is the 180, but the fact she is not pleading to stay means to me the separation is the right thing.


TPZ, you're something! Again wow! Great work telling his wife and she truly deserves to know. 

When threatened with D and getting the 180, WS suddenly do seem to go into sorry and humble mode. But it's often that they are feeling sorry for themselves, especially knowing they will end up in some crappy rental. So you gotta be wary of them feeling sorry. 

She's looking for a place and maybe she is planning to shack up with OM given that his wife is probably packing his bags. . . again! If that happens their place will be anything but a cosy love nest I can tell you. How would you like to start a life with someone under those circumstances? So if they do shack up, try not to get too upset. It will just prove to you that you absolutely did the right thing. 

I wouldn't worry about the 12 month separation before filing. If you separate and decide to go though with it, it will feel like a divorce anyway - the document is just that, a document.

Glad you got your confidence and self-respect back so quickly. It just shows it hadn't deserted you at all - you just needed a bit of a nudge.  

"Pair of clowns" - I like that.


----------



## Allen_A

Send the OM wife some flowers expressing how sad you are for for your wife's and OM's behavior. lol

Not that you are taking responsibility, but you can express sorrow. She must be going through a nightmare too.

That should get the OM riled up. No dude wants another dude sending flowers to his wife.

Just a thought.


----------



## Graywolf2

tpz said:


> Four weeks ago she rings me at work before I had left for the day and tells me she has been sleeping with him since that last day of work 5 months ago and they have "developed feelings for one another". That day he had told his wife about the affair (they have younger kids) and she kicked him out.
> 
> Anyway he has second thoughts, not wanting to be separated from his kids, so returns home to his family begging to be taken back.
> 
> My wife then rings from the empty hotel room and asks to come back, which I agreed to.


Your wife and her OM put their plan into motion that morning to divorce their respective spouses and run off together. The only thing that prevented your wife from doing this is the OM changing his mind. The plan was for the OM to be in that hotel room with your wife.



tpz said:


> My wife is pleading for no D.


Your wife was going to divorce and leave you when you didn’t cheat on her. Now she wants you not to divorce her when she did cheat on you for years.

That’s kind of narcissistic but that is who has affairs.



tpz said:


> Turns out its no-fault D here and a min separation of 12mths is reqd before the application can even be lodged. She dont know this yet though.
> The fact she is not pleading to stay means to me the separation is the right thing.


You two need to separate to start the one year clock running.


----------



## tpz

Oh, and one more thing. I spotted a new phone charger, she was hiding a new phone but forgot the charger, store bag etc :scratchhead:

Apparently he had given it to her for "emergencies", so I insisted she hand it over. Told other wife about it too. It hadnt been used yet.

So now I am in possession of a cool brand new prepaid android smartphone, paid for by him! Any fun suggestion as to what I should do with it?


----------



## Racer

tpz said:


> So now I am in possession of a cool brand new prepaid android smartphone, paid for by him! Any fun suggestion as to what I should do with it?


Give it to the betrayed wife. She could trap him with it if he doesn't know you have it.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tpz said:


> Oh, and one more thing. I spotted a new phone charger, she was hiding a new phone but forgot the charger, store bag etc :scratchhead:
> 
> Apparently he had given it to her for "emergencies", so I insisted she hand it over. Told other wife about it too. It hadnt been used yet.
> 
> So now I am in possession of a cool brand new prepaid android smartphone, paid for by him! Any fun suggestion as to what I should do with it?


Yes. Take a picture(with that phone) of your stbxw packing her stuff into her car and pulling out of the driveway when she's moving out.

Then forward the photos to the OM with the tittle "She's all yours, GOOD LUCK!".


----------



## happyman64

Way to TPZ.

Are your wifes parents still alive?

Are they active with your family?

HM


----------



## adriana

tpz said:


> So now I am in possession of a cool brand new prepaid android smartphone, paid for by him! Any fun suggestion as to what I should do with it?



Start sending him your own selfies. You can get quite daring if you want a greater comical impact. Just like the guy below: 











If you want to be more creative go with something like this:











I would never waste such a "Universe granted" opportunity to piss him off. This is your Kodak moment!


----------



## 3putt

adriana said:


> Start sending him your own selfies. You can get quite daring if you want a greater comical impact. Just like the guy below.
> 
> 
> View attachment 20162


LOL.......

I don't know what to say to that.


----------



## adriana

3putt said:


> LOL.......
> 
> I don't know what to say to that.



You don't need to say anything.... you just go for the kill!


----------



## ing

Can I suggest that you slow down now..
She is still in the house. 
The OMW wants to save her marriage
DO you?

I applaud your actions so far and would have suggested nothing different but we can sometimes see total annihilation as success and for some it is. But you have a lot of history and many years of working things out. This would be tough to reconcile but if you *both *wanted it, then it is possible. 

She probably does feel confused and wonders how she got to this point. 
Why don't you ask her what happened. It will probably sound a bit like this. 

Once she leaves the house you will almost certainly Divorce and book one of your life will close.


----------



## tpz

happyman64 said:


> Way to TPZ.
> 
> Are your wifes parents still alive?
> 
> Are they active with your family?
> 
> HM


Yes, and they live nearby. Her mum knows and has given her what for. Dad will absolutely go ape when he finds out, he still has hurt from being dumped by wife #1 for his best friend long ago.

They are both great with the kids and I dont fear their judgement, they have always loved me.


----------



## LongWalk

I agree with Ing. Do not cast her out into his arms if you wish to give yourself maximum options. Rashness, why would you embrace it?

The burner phone... you should get it up and running and they sit with OM's wife and let her call him and record the conversation.

Your wife may want to return to you. By forcing her to face reality she may after a few weeks or a month fall back in love with you.

Do not display anger. Keep up the 180. Work out. Take care yourself.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Just read through this thread... Nice to see a guy with his SH!t together. Good job TPZ.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tpz

ing said:


> Can I suggest that you slow down now..
> She is still in the house.
> The OMW wants to save her marriage
> DO you?
> 
> I applaud your actions so far and would have suggested nothing different but we can sometimes see total annihilation as success and for some it is. But you have a lot of history and many years of working things out. This would be tough to reconcile but if you *both *wanted it, then it is possible.
> 
> She probably does feel confused and wonders how she got to this point.
> Why don't you ask her what happened. It will probably sound a bit like this.
> 
> Once she leaves the house you will almost certainly Divorce and book one of your life will close.


Yes, I would like to save it, but I dont see how, or know yet if it is possible. The lies continue as of yesterday about no contact and hiding the new phone. She went and saw him the night before (thats how she was given the phone). She did tell me about that afterwards. She says she is still v confused. I have asked her calmly to move out and she has not resisted at all, instead set about looking for a place right away. She is however looking locally, not near him, but thats probably to be near work/kids/dog.

Three nights back was the last time I've tried to talk about what happened, she really wasnt prepared to talk about it and be open. It was calm, but she doesnt want to open up.

I dont feel like a success, and I dont think Im a hero. The life I wanted is shattered, and the love of my life left me, some time ago.

Please tell me this is a bad dream and I can wake up now.


----------



## sandc

Take your new smartphone and send the POSOM a text message. "hi" See if he answers and go from there.


----------



## tpz

sandc said:


> Take your new smartphone and send the POSOM a text message. "hi" See if he answers and go from there.


He wont, my CS warned him straight away that I have it - to protect him from me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

With regard to your thread title and what your wife says - she is definitely not confused. She is a liar, cheat and immoral person, but she is not confused. She knows exactly what she wants and has since she started the affair (which was while working for him).

She wants to sleep with him and be with him. She wanted to bide her time with you paying the bills till he was ready to have her. You fast tracked her plans by discovery, confrontation & exposure. There is no way that this is over and will not be over, the way it is going now. You have been replaced by him and she is now officially your enemy (and this is war, make no mistake).

You are pretty much doing the right things. Protect your finances and assets. Gather and secure as much evidence as possible. Expose the affair to family & friends. Post him on Cheaterville. Don't give them any room to hide or manoeuvre. Do the 180. Kick her out and cut off all finances (tell her to take the psycho dog with her). Do not lie to your kids for her. Work on yourself - physically (the gym etc) and mentally (counselling). And proceed with divorce full speed.


----------



## sandc

Understood. That was a bit tongue in cheek anyway.

To the issue of whether to R or not with your wife, you have time to decide. You don't have to make a decision right now. As you do the 180 and the separation commences you will likely gain more clarity as to what you really want. Many couples have R'd in far worse sitauations. Many men have decided it just wasn't work all the effort and moved on to new and more rewarding relationships. Whyme is a striking example of the latter. The point is, you hold the cards now.


----------



## LongWalk

She warned OM about the phone in front of you?


----------



## adriana

manfromlamancha said:


> With regard to your thread title and what your wife says - she is definitely not confused. She is a liar, cheat and immoral person, but she is not confused. She knows exactly what she wants and has since she started the affair (which was while working for him).
> 
> She wants to sleep with him and be with him. She wanted to bide her time with you paying the bills till he was ready to have her. You fast tracked her plans by discovery, confrontation & exposure. There is no way that this is over and will not be over, the way it is going now. You have been replaced by him and she is now officially your enemy (and this is war, make no mistake).
> 
> You are pretty much doing the right things. Protect your finances and assets. Gather and secure as much evidence as possible. Expose the affair to family & friends. Post him on Cheaterville. Don't give them any room to hide or manoeuvre. Do the 180. Kick her out and cut off all finances (tell her to take the psycho dog with her). Do not lie to your kids for her. Work on yourself - physically (the gym etc) and mentally (counselling). And proceed with divorce full speed.



:iagree: I have to agree with the above. Unfortunately, it looks that it's a divorce time for you. I'm a peaceful person by nature but if I were you I would go after the OM and destroy him just for the sake of revenge.


----------



## Chaparral

I would use his phone to send him a link to his cheaterville post. Cheaterville makes cheaters squirm like the worms they are.


----------



## 3putt

adriana said:


> :iagree: I have to agree with the above. Unfortunately, it looks that it's a divorce time for you. I'm a peaceful person by nature but if I were you I would go after the OM and destroy him just for the sake of revenge.


Agree. 

Let's call it the reckoning though, and not revenge. Seems to be more acceptable around here.


----------



## tpz

LongWalk said:


> She warned OM about the phone in front of you?


No. But he knew soon after beacuse of something he told his BS.

Because other BS and I are in contact its easy to see the ongoing lies and contact. We are like minded, willing to work on our marriages, but we are both asking ourselves if it is possible.

I think its very empowering for other BS to be getting some info from me. He has always treated her like crap anyway. I'm not trying to undermine their efforts at R, on the contrary she needs to know if he is continuing to lie to her, and come from a pos of strength. He is an old school chauvinist and wants to keep his stay at home wife in the dark and under his control.


----------



## Allen_A

Your wife is not confused tpz. She's just created an impossible situation.

She is going to keep saying she's confused in order to keep YOU on her string.

It's just a ploy. Waywards have this ridiculous idea that they are in control of the situation and they just have to choose what they want and the men will fall into line.

You throw that upside down by asking her to leave.

She thinks she just has to choose a man now. And by saying she's confused, she's suggesting that you remain one of her options.

So.. shut down. Give her nothing emotionally or physically. Offer nothing other than what you have to offer as a great parent. Refuse to be an option. Refuse to be #2. Be hard to get. She will be more drawn to you than OM then.

Not saying you want her back, but this is how you best respond to it.

Unless it's a co-parenting issue, she gets nothing from you. Not a look, not a word.

Nothing.

_She's not confused, she just wants to lead you on into continuing to be her #2 backup plan_.

"I am confused" is wayward speak for "I want you to be my backup plan."

btw : do'nt do anything rash or wasteful with the phone out of anger or frustration.

I am sure there is a constructive use you can find for it other than simply sticking it to OM.

I am not suggesting he doesn't have a beating due. I am just suggesting a methodical one rather than rashness would be best.


----------



## Chaparral

When you said they lied about when the affair started, did you find out when it really did start?


----------



## tpz

3putt said:


> Agree.
> 
> Let's call it the reckoning though, and not revenge. Seems to be more acceptable around here.


...and best served cold. And when/if I decide I will serve it up very well.

I'm in 180 and trying to focus on me for now. Out of respect for other BS, and perhaps to avoid triggering my CS to run off to apologise and comfort him again, I am avoiding any gestures at this time.


----------



## bigfoot

OP, I see that you calmly asked her to move out, and she is looking. I APPLAUD YOU. Calmly, give her a two week deadline to get out. Tell her, she has to find a place to rent, a hotel, or a couch to surf but in 2 weeks or less. Then tell her if she misses the deadline by 1 minute, you are throwing her stuff on the lawn.

She has withstood exposure. She is asking for time. Take that power away from her. Right now, she and lover boy have homes to return to after their rendez-vous. Time for at least one of them to realize that real life relationships need to happen in the real world. Think of it this way, you are paying for her to look, smell, and dress nice for him to bang. Your roof and bed keep her refreshed. You house her cheater phone. Two weeks and then you stop being her pimp. That time will give you the cajones to actually stick with it. Remind her every day.

If you want to snap her out of it, get her out of the house. If you want to get used to living life without her, get her out of the house. Either way, two weeks. Tell her that if she is not gone, a sh*t storm is coming. It also puts pressure on him because she is gonna ask him what to do. NEVER PUT IT IN WRITING. Just tell her calmly and remind her calmly. With a week to go, go buy some boxes for her stuff. 3 days before the deadline, set them up, if she has not done so. 1 day before, put stuff in them. I prefer a week or less, but two weeks seems, IMHO, to fit your personality and will make her believer of your seriousness.

Get your money in a new account, it only takes a few minutes to do that. Get credit cards stopped and debt capped or new accounts in only your name. Don't tell her that part. Let her find out on her own. Then she will ask him for money and reality will start. You loving her and showing her that did not stop her from betraying you and continuing. Doing this forces her to wake up to reality. It is a first real step to resolving this crap. Two weeks is how much notice you give a job before you quit, so it is enough notice to give a cheater. 

Do your financial separation BEFORE you tell her the deadline. No need in having her clean you out. IF she tries to run up debt or charge stuff because she thinks you will back down, she will see that there is no money and that you are serious. Do not undo any of those financial arrangements until a judge orders you to or you are solidly in R. NEVER finance someone else's romance.


----------



## tpz

Chaparral said:


> When you said they lied about when the affair started, did you find out when it really did start?


Nope. CS wouldnt open up about it. 

I have uncovered selfies from start of 2013, way before any false dates given so far by either CS. I shared this with other BS.

My intuition says probably way before that even. I'm not any more angry about a longer affair, I would just be relieved if CS opened up and confessed.


----------



## Allen_A

bigfoot said:


> Tell her, she has to find a place to rent, a hotel, or a couch to surf but in 2 weeks or less. Then tell her if she misses the deadline by 1 minute, you are throwing her stuff on the lawn.


I wouldn't even give her the two week warning.

She will just screw around for two weeks and pack the night before.

YOU decide when to put her stuff on the lawn. And when you make that decision.. just put the stuff on the lawn.

No warning, no deadline.

Just say "ok, enough is enough" and out it goes.

If you give a wayward a deadline, they will just waste it like any other spoiled teenager would do.

Do not give deadlines. ACT and DO.

No warnings for waywards, they will just exploit the heads up to your disadvantage.


----------



## Dyokemm

tpz,

I suggested you post a review on a site like Angie's List about POS's business to be a warning that customers should beware cause this scumbag goes after the wives of other men.

I hope you follow through on that.

You really need to turn up the heat on this POS in every way possible so he runs from your WW instead of continuously trying to rekindle/keep the A going.

You have turned up the heat on his personal life by exposing to his BW.

That doesn't appear to have scared him off.

Doing this may start to impact his business/professional life as well.

Make him regret ever messing with your family and your children's lives.

He obviously needs to feel some more pain before he is going to give up the A with your WW.


----------



## EleGirl

tpz,

You have asked your wife to move out and she said she would.

Some are telling you to put her stuff on the lawn, etc. Be careful with what you do. Keep in mind that you have no legal right to kick her out of the house you two share. It's her legal residence. Do the two of you own the house? She has as much right to stay as you do. Neither of you have the right to kick the other out.

If you put her stuff on the lawn or otherwise try to evict her, she can call the police and have you removed. She can do this because you putting her stuff out is an aggressive act. She could get a court order to have you removed from the house.

And since she is not working, she can probably also get a court order that you have to pay all the bills until she is employed and able to support herself.

If she choses to not move out, the two of you can just live in different rooms in the house until a divorce is final and one of you gets ordered out by the courts.


----------



## bigfoot

Allen_A, I like your style, but I am all about the mind game and also the personality of OP. Once you tell someone what you are going to do and then do it, a pattern develops. Do it about 3 times on anything and then they come to believe you every time. 

Besides, if he throws her stuff out immediately, she gets to play victim. With a deadline, he can always say, I gave them fair warning. I do prefer no deadlines or shorter deadlines, but this is just the start. I do agree with you, but this is about power and mind control. There after, when he tells her something, she is going to believe him.


----------



## ing

If you have found selfies from last year then the general rule of thumb is that you double the time of the affair. 
In that time she has had another bloody life where you were not included!

He has already thrown her under the bus. That has got to sting after all the total bulldust he has been feeding her. She is going through a relationship breakup where she got dumped!

She may be feeling now that it is all hopeless and that she deserves to be thrown under the bus as well and because of that she is not hearing what you are saying. 


Any further communication with this guy is not only disrespectful to you but deeply disrespectful to her affair partners wishes to reconcile with his wife. 
He does not want you. He chose his wife.

This may have more effect on her at the moment than your wishes. Sorry.

You do not have to decide everything now. 

But make sure she understands WHY you are initiating Divorce 

Let her know that you MAY be able to move forward but all contact must cease and she needs to pull her head out of her arse immediately. 
Keep messages short and direct. Do not be pulled into her drama. 

I would even write it down. As much as you are in agony she is also in trauma and people do not always act sensibly when they are. 

I am really sorry you are here. I would normally just reinforce the advice you are getting but you have been together a lifetime and that changes things.


----------



## theroad

walkonmars said:


> Don't believe a word she says... including that the affair started the day she quit..... that's so unlikely - What's more likely is that the affair started years ago but since the work-alibi was no longer viable and had to meet him in hotel rooms, she told you what was convenient.
> 
> Inform the OM's wife and cut yours loose. Pronto.


Makes sense now.


----------



## tpz

EleGirl said:


> tpz,
> 
> You have asked your wife to move out and she said she would.
> 
> Some are telling you to put her stuff on the lawn, etc. Be careful with what you do. Keep in mind that you have no legal right to kick her out of the house you two share. It's her legal residence. Do the two of you own the house? She has as much right to stay as you do. Neither of you have the right to kick the other out.
> 
> If you put her stuff on the lawn or otherwise try to evict her, she can call the police and have you removed. She can do this because you putting her stuff out is an aggressive act. She could get a court order to have you removed from the house.
> 
> And since she is not working, she can probably also get a court order that you have to pay all the bills until she is employed and able to support herself.
> 
> If she choses to not move out, the two of you can just live in different rooms in the house until a divorce is final and one of you gets ordered out by the courts.


Yes, this is my understanding of the law here. I cannot force her to leave. Besides I dont want to cause the kids any more trauma and I never have and never will get agressive with my spouse.

We've had separate beds for the last 2 nights, so I think separation "under the one roof" has already begun anyway, if she backtracks and wont leave. 

Separation of finances will go ahead regardless.

Its all pretty calm here though, no shouting etc.


----------



## EleGirl

tpz said:


> Yes, this is my understanding of the law here. I cannot force her to leave. Besides I dont want to cause the kids any more trauma and I never have and never will get agressive with my spouse.
> 
> We've had separate beds for the last 2 nights, so I think separation "under the one roof" has already begun anyway, if she backtracks and wont leave.
> 
> Separation of finances will go ahead regardless.
> 
> Its all pretty calm here though, no shouting etc.


I agree with the separation of finances. 

Sounds like you are doing what you can.

Have you considered filing for divorce to let her know how dead serious you are? Remember that a divorce can be made to take a long time and can be stopped at any time before the judge signs the final decree. 


She needs something that shocks her back into reality.


----------



## tpz

EleGirl said:


> I agree with the separation of finances.
> Have you considered filing for divorce to let her know how dead serious you are? ...
> 
> She needs something that shocks her back into reality.


Cant actually file here before 12 months separation has elapsed.

But she understands that I consider the separation as the start of D. I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversaton we have had for a while.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

tpz said:


> I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversaton we have had for a while.


Stay cool tpz. Don't budge an inch in your determination and make sure she not only knows it, but feels it too.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tpz said:


> Cant actually file here before 12 months separation has elapsed.
> 
> But she understands that I consider the separation as the start of D. I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversation we have had for a while.


She's calling you, but from where?...

I'm guessing that the OM got what he wanted. He doesn't want to get a D, regardless of anything that he told your WS. Now he's back pedalling and you're WS is starting to realize that staying with you is her best option.

Right now anyway. If he called her in six months, she could decide otherwise, again.


----------



## EleGirl

tpz said:


> Cant actually file here before 12 months separation has elapsed.
> 
> But she understands that I consider the separation as the start of D. I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversaton we have had for a while.


What state are you in? 

In some states, even ones that have a waiting period, it is waived if there is infidelity and other serious issues.

Also, make sure that you get in writing that you consider that you are separated. One divorce that I worked on, the husband had an email in which his wife discussed that she considered them separated even though they were in the same house. The court took the date of that email as the start of their separation.


----------



## Machiavelli

EleGirl said:


> What state are you in?


Judging by the time zone issue, I'd guess his state is N.S. Wales

What do you think, tpz? Is long term adultery a deal killer or do you want to try to put it back together?


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversaton we have had for a while.


Why on earth are you giving her conversations at all?

Unless it's about the kids and strictly a business related discussion, do not give her conversation.

She's using you, and testing your resolve here.

When you give her the good conversation she wants, she's dragging you right back into the vortex again.

Once the business of parenting etc is dealt with in an impersonal and business like manner, you end the call.

You always hang up first. No good bye.

Just hang up.

Having good conversations right now just sets you back rather than forward.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

Machiavelli said:


> Judging by the time zone issue, I'd guess his state is N.S. Wales


Hi M, it makes no difference which state he's in, 12 month separation before divorce is Australia wide.



Allen_A said:


> Why on earth are you giving her conversations at all?
> 
> Unless it's about the kids and strictly a business related discussion, do not give her conversation.
> 
> She's using you, and testing your resolve here.
> 
> When you give her the good conversation she wants, she's dragging you right back into the vortex again.
> 
> Once the business of parenting etc is dealt with in an impersonal and business like manner, you end the call.
> 
> You always hang up first. No good bye.
> 
> Just hang up.
> 
> Having good conversations right now just sets you back rather than forward.


I agree, she probably thought she was reeling him back in nicely.


----------



## tpz

Machiavelli said:


> Judging by the time zone issue, I'd guess his state is N.S. Wales
> 
> What do you think, tpz? Is long term adultery a deal killer or do you want to try to put it back together?


I'm in Aus yes - this is covered by federal law.

It was long term no matter what the time length. I dont think the truth if I ever get it would shock me anymore.

The truth is not a deal breaker to me if I can see a way to R. D is my plan-B. 

The lies, fog, secrets, contact, excuses, denials and defensiveness that was/is going on since learning about the affair...that I cant abide.


----------



## ing

In Aus you do not actually have to be in separate places to be separate. 

Separate the day to day finances and journal a few dates.

I would start the count down right now because by the time it gets to court as a sole applicant it will be 18 months.

The Court thing is very easy to do since it is no fault. Don;t be tempted to go down the joint Divorce route. It is a pain in the bottom.


I am in Aus.

PS. Your doing great


----------



## manfromlamancha

tpz said:


> ...and best served cold. And when/if I decide I will serve it up very well.
> 
> I'm in 180 and trying to focus on me for now. Out of respect for other BS, and perhaps to avoid triggering my CS to run off to apologise and comfort him again, I am avoiding any gestures at this time.


You cannot throw her out of the house legally. However, if she ever wants to "run off to him for any thing", you should never try and stop her. That is when you help her pack her bags and you offer to drive her to his place and she becomes his problem from then onwards. And although it is calm now, it is going to become a caustic environment for the kids and they will not only pick up on this but also get affected by it. So don't think twice about throwing her out just because of them. She has betrayed and hurt them too!


----------



## Machiavelli

tpz said:


> The truth is not a deal breaker to me if I can see a way to R. D is my plan-B.
> 
> The lies, fog, secrets, contact, excuses, denials and defensiveness that was/is going on since learning about the affair...that I cant abide.


Kids are the only reason to R, really. It's a very long shot that you will return to happiness, though some have done it. If you want to try to do it, the key thing to get through to her (deeds not words) is that you can replace her with a younger, hotter chick in five minutes if you so desire.

Your wife has been devaluing you as a husband and a man for a long time, you have to really up your sexual market value. Due to your age, your marriage market value is way higher than hers already. Do women ever hit on you?


----------



## Ripper

Heed Machiavelli well OP. From what I have read, he has elevated relationships/game to an exact science.


----------



## LongWalk

tpz said:


> Cant actually file here before 12 months separation has elapsed.
> 
> But she understands that I consider the separation as the start of D. I think it may be working, she just called me - best conversaton we have had for a while.


Please explain.

What do you mean by selfies? Are they explicitly sexual?


----------



## tpz

LongWalk said:


> Please explain.
> 
> What do you mean by selfies? Are they explicitly sexual?


They werent the type of selfies you post on FB no.

Her tone has changed. I know the cynic in me would say thats only because she doesnt want to move out and be alone now, but this is not pleading but more a resigned calm compliance and sadness. But of course that could be sadness from the fact POSOM doesnt love her enough after all.

She has said that she doesnt want to be a home wrecker and doesnt want anymore contact with him.

I'm not holding my breathe of course, as she has an addiction to this guy, but I think it could be sincere. I have had no hints of contact on surveillance in last 2 days and she is no longer protecting her phone from me.

She is also without complaint setting up her own bank acc and credit card, and has her first IC session on monday.

Other than that I have been v busy with a work project, so glad its the weekend now to catch up on sleep and then get back to looking after me.


----------



## cool12

tpz said:


> She has said that she doesnt want to be a home wrecker and doesnt want anymore contact with him



wow, that's rich. 
has she always been so selfish and delusional?


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> She has said that she doesnt want to be a home wrecker and doesnt want anymore contact with him.


Don't believe it. We all want to, but she has a long way to go before she can say that with any conviction or credibility.

She can't just say it and expect you to buy it. She has to LIVE it... and LIVE it for a looooooooooooooooooooong time before you even begin to think she's telling you the truth.



tpz said:


> She is also without complaint setting up her own bank acc and credit card, and has her first IC session on monday.


Well, that will just make it easier for her to hide her purchases for hotel rooms etc.

If she wants you to believe she's ended her affair, she has to be fully transparent... a PICTURE WINDOW.

Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.



tpz said:


> Other than that I have been v busy with a work project, so glad its the weekend now to catch up on sleep and then get back to looking after me.


Yup... make sure she knows you don't believe her say so.


----------



## Graywolf2

tpz said:


> She has said that she doesnt want to be a home wrecker.


Then your wife changed her mind. She and her OM told their spouses on the same day about their affair. The plan was to be a home wreaker for both families.


----------



## bandit.45

TPZ are you doing the 180 that I posted?


----------



## LongWalk

Without offering her anything in return, you should tell her to write a timeline of the affair, every detail she can remember. Everything. Especially, you want to hear her describe her emotional state.

This is essential for any R. She needs to talk about how good it felt to do this in secret for the thrill, about how bad it felt because of the guilt, about how normal it felt because it went on so long. You need to review and question it because it is an obstacle that you both face. Perhaps you cannot overcome it. But as you point out, the lies make it impossible. She has stand naked and take selfies of her moral state so that you can know who she is.

She does not know who she is at the moment.


----------



## tpz

bandit.45 said:


> TPZ are you doing the 180 that I posted?


No, Ive slacked off a bit by taking to her.



LongWalk said:


> Without offering her anything in return, you should tell her to write a timeline of the affair, every detail she can remember. Everything. Especially, you want to hear her describe her emotional state.
> 
> This is essential for any R. She needs to talk about how good it felt to do this in secret for the thrill, about how bad it felt because of the guilt, about how normal it felt because it went on so long. You need to review and question it because it is an obstacle that you both face. Perhaps you cannot overcome it. But as you point out, the lies make it impossible. She has stand naked and take selfies of her moral state so that you can know who she is.
> 
> She does not know who she is at the moment.


I like this idea. Writing it down will be easier for both of us, more likely to succeed as a start than a conversation.

I will need details of the physical side of the affair as well, ok to want that in the timeline too?


----------



## LongWalk

People debate the value of having physical details. If you are your wife the dimensions of OM's penis, then you have to think about it. Perhaps that would be unpleasant.

You might want to know how it went physical. How did they signal each other that this was going to happen? How did she feel when she next saw you and you could not the see the change in her? Did she then feel that you had betrayed her by not understanding her well enough to see heightened emotions?

How often they met. Where they met. What tricks did she use to make time for their meetings. What clothes she bought to wear to OM. This very important. You want her to take all OM associated clothing, not only sexy underwear but boots, jeans, whatever and burn it or chuck it in a dumpster.

All presents from the OM. Where did they eat? If they had a favorite place, you might even want to go there with her to confiscate it from her memory of pleasant times.

She has to agree to answer you questions about the affair on demand. If she asks you when the investigation will be over, say a year. After that you can save questions for MC.

Right now you also need to work on yourself. Hit the gym. Dive into your hobbies. You need to clear your mind. Also, cut your alcohol consumption by half or 2/3. Alcohol disturbs sleep and you probably are not sleeping soundly now. If you have a hard workout, eat well and sleep, you'll feel sharper.

Act confident around your WW. You neet to broadcast your strength. As folks say, "fake it till you make it."

Don't tell her you love her. If she asks you if you do, ask her why it matters. Look her in the eye. Listen to her carefully. Repeat what she says back to her. For example, if she says: "We always used condoms."

You reply: "You always used condoms?"

If she is lying, it will probably come through, unless she is really good at it. But so much deception has taken place that if she wants to trickle truth. Tell her that dribbling the truth out will wreck the chances of R completely. She'll feel better is she comes clean. Confession is good for the soul.

Once you have the timeline on paper you can come up with a huge number of questions:

1) What did you tell OM about our marriage at first?
2) Did you worry that he had STD's?
3) When did she find out his birthday? What did she buy him as a present?
4) How did he use his status as employer to get his fingers in her panties? Jokes? Brushing against her? Pay increases?
5) What did he say about his wife? (You can swap notes with her)

etc.

If you have sex with your WW, make certain that you do not get drunk with happiness. Reclaim her if you wish. Make sure you are taking her. If you are good a getting her to come, let her feel secure. Cleaning up the damage from the affair will take time and work. She is going have do most of it in the beginning.


----------



## tpz

Thanks LongWalk, I appreciate all that.

ps. lol, I have his selfies, so know hes not packing anything for me to feel inadequate about.

He doesnt have much on me. Hes a chauvanist, narcissist, suffers depressive moods, and is most probaby an alcoholic. My CS knows all this, and herself "diagnosed" him with NPD some time back.

Hes a bit a coward, jumps at his own shadow. His wife told me he had security cameras installed outside his business in case I came to see him, lol.

He also owns a gun, in a country where you have to jump through hoops to get one. Compensating I think. Along with the look at me convertable and over priced watches. 

He is however slightly younger, slimmer (although short) and more chatty and superficial that I am. These last 2 play well with my CS I think.

I believe the source of the affair is really her need to be liked and accepted in a job that she did not feel initially she was qualified and able to do. I think she sought his approval so much she started to use whatever means she could to obtain it.

I think she may be telling the truth when she says she wanted it to end when she left working there some 5 months back, but then admits she was too weak to say no when he kept contacting her, wanting her. She regrets I found out (POSOM came home drunk one night and confessed to his wife) and hoped it would end quietly, but when I questioned she also admitted that it probably woudnt have ended.

I dont think rationally I have anything to fear or feel inadequate about POSOM, except her bizarre addiction to him, and wether she will recover from it so we can R. 

I wish now that they had indeed moved out together and stayed, it seriously would have gone sour quickly for them both.


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> She regrets I found out (POSOM came home drunk one night and confessed to his wife) and hoped it would end quietly, but when I questioned she also admitted that it probably woudnt have ended.


That's a bad sign. That even NOW she thinks it would have been better if you had'nt found out?

Your wife needs to get it into her think head that
_
Infidelity STILL does DAMAGE whether your spouse knows about it or not. What they don't know DOES hurt them.
_

That she hasn't figured that out yet isn't a good sign.



tpz said:


> I dont think rationally I have anything to fear or feel inadequate about POSOM, except her bizarre addiction to him, and wether she will recover from it so we can R.


Do NOT be in a hurry to reconcile. You really have to put the breaks on a quick R. They almost NEVER work out.

You have to SLOW DOWN and you have to talk, negotiate the relationship, etc.

There is a huge laundry list of hoops your wife has to jump through before you even consider a R with her :

a. STD test
b. Full transparency - all phone numbers, accounts, etc
c. Destroy all souvenirs of the affair - all email, gifts, photos, etc



tpz said:


> I wish now that they had indeed moved out together and stayed, it seriously would have gone sour quickly for them both.


Yes, it would have. But you also would have felt even more defeated.

It's not a blessing either way.

Don't to be so quick to trust your wife or anything she says right now.

No matter how sincere or remorseful she appears, do NOT trust her.

That must be earned, and it takes months and even years.


----------



## bandit.45

tpz said:


> I think she may be telling the truth when she says she wanted it to end when she left working there some 5 months back, but then admits she was too weak to say no when he kept contacting her, wanting her. She regrets I found out (POSOM came home drunk one night and confessed to his wife) and hoped it would end quietly, but when I questioned she also admitted that it probably woudnt have ended.
> 
> I dont think rationally I have anything to fear or feel inadequate about POSOM, except her bizarre addiction to him, and wether she will recover from it so we can R.
> 
> I wish now that they had indeed moved out together and stayed, it seriously would have gone sour quickly for them both.


Then why are you slacking off on the 180?

Why are you extending an olive branch so soon, when she has not shown true remorse? What she is showing now is guilt and self hatred for being duped and conned into an affair. But she doesn't seem to be feeling any empathy for you and your pain. She's worried about her future, worried about you leaving her and taking away her cushy lifestyle, worrying what the neighbors will think when they find out her husband left her because she is a cheat. 

She is not internalizing YOUR pain and making it her own. That is the sign of true remorse. She's just sad and scared because she got caught and has egg on her face. 

Why are you selling your forgiveness so cheaply?

Keep on the 180 until you begin to see REAL remorse. If you don't see it, then keep detaching and moving forward without her.


----------



## Allen_A

Yup dude, she is USING YOU to make HER feel better about the situation SHE manufactured.

Do NOT let her dupe you into thinking she's a victim of OM here.

She was exploited, but she ALLOWED him to exploit her. There was no gun pressed to her head.

She's responsible for the selfish and destructive choices she made.

And by the sounds of it she's trying to dupe you into buying her "victim of the OM" story.

Don't buy it. If you buy that story, she will just cheat on you AGAIN.

You cannot fall apart this soon and have "good conversations" and be her shoulder to cry on.

She's USING you man. She's TESTING your resolve.

If she smells any fear in you, she will be on the phone with OM in a blink of an eye right now.

This is a VERY delicate time. This is NOT the time for you to soften.

This is the time for you to be a moral authority and a mature adult.

Hold her accountable. Demand she respect you and the family. Insist she turn over the passwords to every account she has.

If she gets defensive then you have the truth right there.

You are NOT out of the woods man. She is gonna waver back and forth when you put your foot down.

You CANNOT cave in to her at the first sign of her showing weakness. BAD MOVE.

You need to be the adult and the authority figure here, not a wet sponge.


----------



## bigfoot

tpz, your love for your wife is admirable. Your desire for your wife is natural. You need to listen to the advice on this board. Go look at older threads of others just like you and watch how they went through the same thing as you.

Hope and desire make this part of the walk hard. Try to learn from others. I know this is an internet board and any idiot can post, but seriously, read some threads, A LOT of them. You are going to start seeing yourself in them. Good luck.

Seriously, I marvel at how predictable the journey is. Once you read a bunch, you will realize that you need to get with the program. Everyone comes to that realization sooner or later. Please believe me. I have spent days reading threads. It is absolutely astounding. You have some of the best posters around guiding you. Please learn: 180, resolve, and white knuckling it. That is what it takes. You will see. Good luck to you.


----------



## Acabado

tpz said:


> I think she may be telling the truth when she says she wanted it to end when she left working there some 5 months back, but then admits she was too weak to say no when he kept contacting her, wanting her. She regrets I found out (POSOM came home drunk one night and confessed to his wife) and hoped it would end quietly, but when I questioned she also admitted that it probably woudnt have ended.


...so how long the PA is? Can she also admit when she crossed into "innapropiate" territory?


----------



## warlock07

you want her back?


----------



## tpz

Acabado said:


> ...so how long the PA is? Can she also admit when she crossed into "innapropiate" territory?


I will probably never know now, last I asked she said she was too ashamed to say, so prior to 2013 sometime.



warlock07 said:


> you want her back?


I dont think I should give it any thought anymore.

POSOM is leaving his BS and moving into a rental somewhere local as soon as he finds a place. Will apparently continue to provide for his family and be the occasional dad.

My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.

Might take 2-3 days, hopefully doesnt drag out.


----------



## LongWalk

TPZ,

That is good news. You are getting rid of her. The OM has abandoned his own children for your WW's skanky muff. They are not likely to be happy, but who cares. You deserve to be. Without her you have shot.



> I will probably never know now, last I asked she said she was too ashamed to say, so prior to 2013 sometime.


She feels cheap, even in her own eyes. POSOM is no catch, so it feels stupid, too.


----------



## WyshIknew

If I was a gambling man I'd put good money on their relationship going tits up for one reason or another.

I don't know what divorce/separation agreements are like where you live but you might gain a big advantage in starting to finalise financial and custody agreements now while she is in the loved up stage.
Once the shet starts to hit the fan with the OM's BW going after him for money (yes I know he is going to provide, but once lawyers get involved he may get a shock) then they will be looking at you to provide money for them. After all, it's her right as you were such a bad husband


----------



## lordmayhem

tpz said:


> POSOM is leaving his BS and moving into a rental somewhere local as soon as he finds a place. Will apparently continue to provide for his family and be the occasional dad.
> 
> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.
> 
> Might take 2-3 days, hopefully doesnt drag out.


The hard facts are that 97% of relationships based on affairs fail, and fairly quickly at that. The OM, once he realizes the amount of child support and/or spousal support he will be paying out, and losing the ability to be with his kids everyday, usually wake up from the affair, then try to go back home once reality sets it.

Then your WW is going to see the OM's faults and really have to deal with them for the first time. Mr Wonderful won't be so wonderful once the fog of the affair lifts. But right now, everything is heavenly for them. They actually think that they will ride off into the sunset together and everyone will be happy for them.


----------



## 86857

tpz said:


> He doesnt have much on me. Hes a chauvanist, narcissist, suffers depressive moods, and is most probaby an alcoholic. My CS knows all this, and herself "diagnosed" him with NPD some time back.


Do you know what it's like to live with a chauvinistic, narcissistic, moody, heavy-drinking cheater - the profile of many WS on here? Hold that thought. . . 


> I wish now that they had indeed moved out together and stayed, it seriously would have gone sour quickly for them both.


You are raw, confused and hurting a mere 5 weeks since D-day. But believe it or not your WS and that gun-toting jackass have just done you a huge favour. 

Yes it's scary to think of your life without her as you once said.

But do you know how hard R is? Not trusting her for the next year or two or more, always vigilant, always looking for signs, the mind movies playing in your head, your ongoing sadness for the marriage you once had? 

It will be a whole lot less pain for you to get over this than to sign up for years of R. 

WS blew her only chance and pretended she was going to stay, while making plans to move in with that loser. Doesn't get much more cruel than that. No WS should ever be given a second chance IMO, especially this WS. 

It will blow up in their faces. Guaranteed. 

My only fear is that you will take her back when it does.


----------



## Chaparral

lordmayhem said:


> The hard facts are that 97% of relationships based on affairs fail, and fairly quickly at that. The OM, once he realizes the amount of child support and/or spousal support he will be paying out, and losing the ability to be with his kids everyday, usually wake up from the affair, then try to go back home once reality sets it.
> 
> Then your WW is going to see the OM's faults and really have to deal with them for the first time. Mr Wonderful won't be so wonderful once the fog of the affair lifts. But right now, everything is heavenly for them. They actually think that they will ride off into the sunset together and everyone will be happy for them.


In this instance, they have been working together for years. The reason she won't say how long its been going on is that it likely has gone on for many years. She has spent more time with him than her husband. They have in essence been married a long time.

Put the other man on cheaterville.com, let him live with his treachery the rest of his life. He certainly has no regard for you or your kids, he brought it, now make him live it.


----------



## Pufferfish

tpz said:


> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.


Your unfaithful wife has revealed exactly where her heart and loyalties are - with the other man. She might have even done you a favour by letting you know. She was never confused. The previous posters have been spot on. 

There is no hope of recovering from this at this stage. 

If by some miracle she changes her mind sometime down the line, there is little hope of recovering your relationship without stripping your dignity and self respect and wondering if she can ever be faithful. That's no way to live man.


----------



## cool12

tpz said:


> POSOM is leaving his BS and moving into a rental somewhere local as soon as he finds a place. Will apparently continue to provide for his family and be the occasional dad.
> 
> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.
> 
> Might take 2-3 days, hopefully doesnt drag out.


time to dust yourself off and begin the process to D your cheating wife. and to think, you were srsly considering taking her back. 

at least now you know what she's capable of and what a kind of liar she can be. she was just telling you a couple of days ago that she wanted to end it with him before. you know now that's bullsh!t. first chance she gets she's going running back to him.


----------



## lordmayhem

Chaparral said:


> In this instance, they have been working together for years. The reason she won't say how long its been going on is that it likely has gone on for many years. She has spent more time with him than her husband. They have in essence been married a long time.
> 
> Put the other man on cheaterville.com, let him live with his treachery the rest of his life. He certainly has no regard for you or your kids, he brought it, now make him live it.


:iagree:

Thing is, they haven't actually lived together, just quick sex romps. She hasn't had to actually put up with his sh!t and he hasn't had to put up with hers by living together on a daily basis. So in reality, he was getting the milk for free and hasn't had to buy the cow. No bills to pay in affair land. Its all lollipops and unicorns in affair land.


----------



## WhiteRaven

tpz, be happy she's out of your life. Your loyalty deserves someone far more worthy than her.


----------



## Acabado

Do children know already?


----------



## ArmyofJuan

tpz said:


> I will probably never know now, last I asked she said she was too ashamed to say, so prior to 2013 sometime.
> 
> 
> I dont think I should give it any thought anymore.
> 
> POSOM is leaving his BS and moving into a rental somewhere local as soon as he finds a place. Will apparently continue to provide for his family and be the occasional dad.
> 
> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.
> 
> Might take 2-3 days, hopefully doesnt drag out.


It won't last, moving in together is like poison to an affair. Don't be shocked in a couple of months (give or take) she is asking to come back home. It won't take long for her to realize he's just a guy and her life isn't any better than before.

Whatever you do, don't make it easy for her, get her out asap then ignore her. My W moved in with her OM twice during our back an forth false R's and each time she regretted it within a couple of weeks. She wasn't all that smart back then.


----------



## Graywolf2

lordmayhem said:


> Thing is, they haven't actually lived together, just quick sex romps. She hasn't had to actually put up with his sh!t and he hasn't had to put up with hers by living together on a daily basis. So in reality, he was getting the milk for free and hasn't had to buy the cow. No bills to pay in affair land. Its all lollipops and unicorns in affair land.


:iagree:

The punishment for your wife and the OM will be to live together. To make the punishment more severe you need to show her what she‘s missing. Be very civil and take care of yourself. Be a great dad. Go on vacations with the kids. Let her see what she threw away. 

Your wife does have a conscious because she feels ashamed about when the affair started and how long she deceived you. She isn’t a totally bad person. Use that to your advantage. 

Being nice to an evil person just makes them think that you are weak. Being civil or nice to your wife will make her feel guilty because she has some good in her. If you really want to twist the knife tell her how much you loved the woman she was before the affair. Reminisce with her about good times you had dating or as a family.

Anything mean you do will only serve confirm that she made the right decision when she chose the OM and make her feel better. 

Kill her with kindness and living well.



ArmyofJuan said:


> It won't last, moving in together is like poison to an affair. Don't be shocked in a couple of months (give or take) she is asking to come back home. *Whatever you do, don't make it easy for her*.


:iagree:

It would be smarter to resolve right now that you will never take her back and move on with your life. But if you do take her back, make her work for it. Don't let her move directly from the OM's apartment to your house. Make her get her own place, come clean about when the affair started, timeline, ect. That way she will value you and your home more. You are a prize. Don’t be a pushover.


----------



## Allen_A

Quick start usually means quick to finish too.

She will be back knocking on your door in no time.


----------



## LongWalk

She doesn't want to tell you just how early on he did her doggy in the office. It doesn't feel dignified to her. And when their relationship crumbles (80% or higher chance of failure) the sweet memories will not be of the hot cheating sex but of the good guy. 

I agree with poster who said be kind and polite but detached. Move on with your life. Treat her like someone who is outside of your intimate circle. She does not deserve it. You will find someone better, hotter, kinder.


----------



## WyshIknew

Allen_A said:


> Quick start usually means quick to finish too.
> 
> She will be back knocking on your door in no time.


"What do you mean you won't take me back?" "What about all those years together, the children, it was just a mistake I can't believe you're being so stubborn."

"A new girlfriend? How could you? It didn't take you long to replace me with some tart did it?"


----------



## warlock07

tpz said:


> I will probably never know now, last I asked she said she was too ashamed to say, so prior to 2013 sometime.
> 
> 
> I dont think I should give it any thought anymore.
> 
> POSOM is leaving his BS and moving into a rental somewhere local as soon as he finds a place. Will apparently continue to provide for his family and be the occasional dad.
> 
> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.
> 
> Might take 2-3 days, hopefully doesnt drag out.


Now you know why this took so long. She was pressurizing him to leave his wife while keeping you in the back burner in case he does not leave his wife. Once he decided to move out, she is proceeding with plan A.


----------



## Allen_A

warlock07 said:


> Now you know why this took so long. She was pressurizing him to leave his wife while keeping you in the back burner in case he does not leave his wife. Once he decided to move out, she is proceeding with plan A.


I say send OMW some flowers and a condolences card.

You look classy and you stick it to OM at the same time.

KABOOM.

You are both hurting, no point in you both not trading notes here to get to the truth.

Call her up and get to the facts. She may appreciate your call.

And OM will HATE you for it.

Even better.


----------



## tom67

Allen_A said:


> I say send OMW some flowers and a condolences card.
> 
> You look classy and you stick it to OM at the same time.
> 
> KABOOM.
> 
> You are both hurting, no point in you both not trading notes here to get to the truth.
> 
> Call her up and get to the facts. She may appreciate your call.
> 
> And OM will HATE you for it.
> 
> Even better.


:iagree::iagree:
It's a good idea.


----------



## TRy

tpz said:


> My WS has just told me she will move out to live with him too. Not really a surprise to me now.


 That is why she has not been fighting you on moving out. She thinks that she can now go for a full test drive with the other man (OM), and if it does not work out during the 12 months that you must wait to file for a divorce, she can always go back to her plan B (that would be you) having had the fun of getting some strange for a while. Since she believes that you will take her back, she sees no down side to this.


----------



## happyman64

TPZ

Do you realize her telling you she is moving out to live with him is the first honest thing she has told you in a long time.

Now the key is to let her go. And make it clear that the day she walks out that door there is no coming back.

She chose him.

Now get your head and heart to accept that fact and make sure you have the best life you can live.

Then make sure she regrets her decision to leave you for the rest of your life.

HM


----------



## tpz

Allen_A said:


> I say send OMW some flowers and a condolences card.
> 
> You look classy and you stick it to OM at the same time.
> 
> KABOOM.
> 
> You are both hurting, no point in you both not trading notes here to get to the truth.
> 
> Call her up and get to the facts. She may appreciate your call.
> 
> And OM will HATE you for it.
> 
> Even better.


Oh we have been in contact, spent a long call with her yesterday. That's how I knew he was moving out. She is v upset, but feels trapped because she is a stay at home mum and needs his income for everything incl large mortgage.

Great idea about the flowers, just ordered them. She deserves them along with a note to remind her none of this is her fault and to stay strong.


----------



## tom67

Is she hot?  never mind


----------



## tpz

tom67 said:


> Is she hot?  never mind


lol, yeah that'd make a screwed up mess wouldnt it.


----------



## bfree

I hope you tell your wife that when she moves out there is never any going back.


----------



## tpz

bfree said:


> I hope you tell your wife that when she moves out there is never any going back.


Absolutely. Besides I will need to do it for me. I need to close that chapter and look forward, not dwell in the past while holding on to hope.


----------



## tpz

So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.

Is it weird that I felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on POSOM now, and I was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?


----------



## WyshIknew

tpz said:


> So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.
> 
> Is it weird that I felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on POSOM now, and I was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?


Eeew.

Sloppy seconds. Not for me dude. His jizz will be in there for four to five days.

Please say you didn't go down.


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.
> 
> Is it weird that I felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on POSOM now, and I was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?


How is this showing her you won't tolerate her playing both sides of the fence?

how is this showing her you mean business?

Yes, inform OMW that you had sex with your wife and ask her to get that message back to OM.

Put it on your facebook.

Don't brag about it, but put it out there in a gentle way so you don't look like you are stirring up trouble.

You will stir up trouble for that affair,b ut who cares...


----------



## WyshIknew

Remember the poster who gave his WW a damn good seeing to?

Then informed OM.

Her AP never really thought of her the same, it ruined the affair, she wanted back but he had found someone else?


----------



## tpz

Allen_A said:


> How is this showing her you won't tolerate her playing both sides of the fence?
> 
> how is this showing her you mean business?


Yeah good point. I guess I figured there was little harm now she has been honest and is moving out, and we have discussed D being amicable.


----------



## Allen_A

tpz said:


> Yeah good point. I guess I figured there was little harm now she has been honest and is moving out, and we have discussed D being amicable.


Amicable?

She means she wants you to hand her $$$... and she's sleeping with you to soften you up.

She's been LYING to you for how long? And you think now she is suddenly trustworthy?

Listen... honest character does not happen overnight.

People don't lie for 12+ months on a daily basis and then suddenly start telling the 100% truth. She's hiding something. She will always be hiding something.

Honest living is a choice, but for someone who lies at her and OM's level for months on end, day in and day out, that choice takes months, even YEARS of maturation... IF it happens at all.

Do NOT think, for ONE SECOND, that anything your wife says right now is on the level.

She has had an agenda for a LONG time, and it is NOT over yet by a LONG SHOT.

She's played you for months, and she THINKS she's playing you NOW.

Don't fall for it.

It sounds like you are falling for it.

She's lied to you for months, then she sleeps with you, and now she's got you thinking she's trustworthy...

She's lying to you AND to OM now. You think you can trust her "amicable divorce" she's offering you?

People marry for love, they divorce for money.

Do NOT think she's not playing you. She is always going to be playing you.

OM is playing HER too. He very likely has been having sex with his wife and telling YOUR wife that he sleeps on the couch.

Do you trust OM? Trust your wife as much and NO MORE THAN OM. They are both working on the SAME LEVEL.


----------



## BWBill

Sympathy sex. 

She feels sorry for you.


----------



## Allen_A

BWBill said:


> Sympathy sex.
> 
> She feels sorry for you.


Nah. i think she's softening him up for a good settlement in the D.


----------



## bfree

Either way let her move out and find yourself a woman who isn't having sex with you all the while hiding an ulterior motive.


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## tom67

tpz said:


> lol, yeah that'd make a screwed up mess wouldnt it.


Eh two consenting adults can have fun.
Plus it will get back to those pos's.
Hey she's lonely console her.


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## adriana

tpz said:


> so last night ws asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.
> 
> Is it weird that i felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on posom now, and i was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?




You need to tell the OM about her ONS. He has the right to know.


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## Pufferfish

tpz said:


> So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.
> 
> Is it weird that I felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on POSOM now, and I was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?


Oh Dude,

You just surrendered the high ground. 

In a way, you have indulged her unfaithful behaviour and indirectly said that it is alright to step out on you. There is also an implication that you were alright about her having sex with other men because despite knowing, you were still having sex with her. That can come back and bite you on the butt later. 

This is also not the action of someone who commands respect. It's like a wife who knows husband cheats on her but still allows him to come home and have sex. Get my drift?

I would understand if you did it because you wanted to "Stick it to the other man". If that was your intent, fine. By all means let the other man and his wife know. But judging from what you have written, I suspect that you are not that kind of person. It's your life, but I think that having sex with your wayward wife was a mistake. You have to stop entertaining your wife's every whim. It's seems to me that she dictates and dominates your relationship which is why this mess is happening in the first place. 

Take charge your own destiny for heaven's sake. I'm only being tough on you because from your recent posts, you are still making excuses for her and playing along with her bad behaviour.


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## tpz

Pufferfish said:


> Oh Dude,
> 
> You just surrendered the high ground.
> 
> In a way, you have indulged her unfaithful behaviour and indirectly said that it is alright to step out on you. There is also an implication that you were alright about her having sex with other men because despite knowing, you were still having sex with her. That can come back and bite you on the butt later.
> 
> This is also not the action of someone who commands respect. It's like a wife who knows husband cheats on her but still allows him to come home and have sex. Get my drift?
> 
> I would understand if you did it because you wanted to "Stick it to the other man". If that was your intent, fine. By all means let the other man and his wife know. But judging from what you have written, I suspect that you are not that kind of person. It's your life, but I think that having sex with your wayward wife was a mistake. You have to stop entertaining your wife's every whim. It's seems to me that she dictates and dominates your relationship which is why this mess is happening in the first place.


Clearly I am not thinking well at the moment. I appreciate what you are saying.


----------



## GusPolinski

tpz said:


> So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.
> 
> Is it weird that I felt gratified in thinking that she was "cheating" on POSOM now, and I was "stealing" something from him now, but of couse not feeling guilty at all?


You're probably OK here IMO. Just see it for what it is (for you, just sex...hopefully) AND be aware that she's using sex w/ you as a means to one of the following...

1. She wants to keep you on the leash as "Plan B".
2. As someone else mentioned, she may be trying to soften up your resolve in order to obtain an easier divorce settlement.
3. If it turns out that she's pregnant, she'll now be able to claim that the baby is (or at least might be) yours.

Having said all that, you probably shouldn't do it again.


----------



## Allen_A

Pufferfish said:


> Oh Dude,
> 
> You just surrendered the high ground.
> 
> In a way, you have indulged her unfaithful behaviour and indirectly said that it is alright to step out on you. There is also an implication that you were alright about her having sex with other men because despite knowing, you were still having sex with her. That can come back and bite you on the butt later.
> 
> This is also not the action of someone who commands respect. It's like a wife who knows husband cheats on her but still allows him to come home and have sex. Get my drift?
> 
> I would understand if you did it because you wanted to "Stick it to the other man". If that was your intent, fine. By all means let the other man and his wife know. But judging from what you have written, I suspect that you are not that kind of person. It's your life, but I think that having sex with your wayward wife was a mistake. You have to stop entertaining your wife's every whim. It's seems to me that she dictates and dominates your relationship which is why this mess is happening in the first place.
> 
> Take charge your own destiny for heaven's sake. I'm only being tough on you because from your recent posts, you are still making excuses for her and playing along with her bad behaviour.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Said it much better than I did.

Well done.


----------



## Allen_A

Tpz you will never earn her respect by having sex with her while she's playing around with another man.

She will never be honest and respectful with you until you earn it.

She's not listening to what you say, she's watching what you do.

Everything you do, she's testing you... She's evaluating you for weaknesses. And you just showed her a landslide of them.

Not to mention you have now had sex with OM and every other flea bitten animal he's put his dingus into. Time to get an STD test dude.

If you want to earn her respect, to keep the high ground, you have to show her you deserve to be treated better than she's treating you.

Demand better treatment and she will be pressed to offer better treatment. Stand above all this nonsense. Be the calm in the immaturity storm around you.

You teach people how to treat you. And you just taught her you are a doormat. That's what accepting second place teaches your wife. And sleeping with her after she's made it clear her intention is to lie, cheat, and walk out on you for another man shows her clearly you are willing to be her second place.

Show her you are NOT her doormat anymore.

Get the news back to OM, cause a stir. But do NOT have sex with that woman again.

You are not her Plan B. Show her you aren't plan B, by NOT touching that anymore.


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## Nucking Futs

I hope you're not in one of the states where if you have sex with her after finding out about the infidelity you can't claim adultery in the divorce.


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## tpz

Nucking Futs said:


> I hope you're not in one of the states where if you have sex with her after finding out about the infidelity you can't claim adultery in the divorce.


Nope, its no fault in this country.


----------



## jim123

tpz said:


> Nope, its no fault in this country.


 Please file right away. Start to move on.

By sleeping with her you told her it is ok and you will take her back. You made this easier for her and she now feels in control.

Her moving in is a no risk event. If it does not work out she comes back and if it does, too bad for you.

If you file you take that away,


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## GusPolinski

jim123 said:


> By sleeping with her you told her it is ok and you will take her back. You made this easier for her and she now feels in control.


Make no mistake about it, that's exactly how she's taking it. Pun intended.

But that doesn't mean that that's how OP views it. At least I hope not.

Either way, tpz, just use the fog against her and don't do it again.

Oh, and de-louse your bed.


----------



## bigfoot

TPZ, do you think that you are going to "love her back"? Will you "nice her back"? Perhaps you think you can "see, I love you more than he ever could" her back? The answer is, NO YOU CAN"T. I'm sorry for being so harsh, but you are genuinely making all of the losing moves and claiming some sort of victory. If this was a fight, you would be beating up his fist with your face. PLEASE STOP. Since you want this woman so bad, at least play to win. DEAR LORD. The winning play works whether she comes back or leaves. either way, you win. Your way, you lose and are crushed, and a broken shell of a man for far longer than you need to be.

Here's the thing. She is screwing this guy and has no problem with that. She has no problem getting naked and freaky with him and enjoying every minute of it. She does it all with him. Get that image in your head. You were content to get sloppy seconds from your wife. Get that in your head. You are not sticking it to the other man by sleeping with her. He knew you were sleeping with her when he started banging her. Your so called moment of "sticking it to him" was just your imagination. 

You want power, turn her down next time and tell her you really regret doing it with her this last time, you felt dirty. Tell her once you are divorced that you won't mind banging her like any random chick if you need some release, but you don't share your wife and any woman that wants to be shared like that is disgusting. If you don't go hard, she is not gonna respect you. Actually, she doesn't respect you now. 

I know it's easy for me to say, because I don't love her and have no history with her. I know this, you are losing this game and I really want you to succeed. Get her back or get her gone, either way, only the strong move will win. You are not using her for sex unless you tell her BEFORE that it is just sex and when you are done, you tell her to get dressed and leave. BELIEVE ME, HIT IT AND QUIT IT sends a clear message. No, "I love you" or "I miss this", just hit it, get yours, then clean yourself off and show her the door. That move got me several women to practically go stalker on me. I'm telling you, it works. She thinks she still has you and you act like you just wanted to blow and go, it gets in her head.


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## TRy

JustPuzzled said:


> Inform the OM. Have a laugh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I do not agree with this point of view. Telling the other man that you had sex with your own wife, and you thinking that this is a big deal just makes you look weak. Until a little time ago you did not even know about the affair and the other man expected that you were having sex with your own wife. The other man enjoyed having sex with your wife anyways because he knew that he was taking affection that was suppose to be reserved for you. Truth, you having sex with your wife only shows the other man that she can have you anytime that she wanted, thus increasing the value of her as the prize. Stop having and valuing sex with her, it is nothing to be proud of.


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## Pufferfish

TRy said:


> Telling the other man that you had sex with your own wife, and you thinking that this is a big deal just makes you look weak. Until a little time ago you did not even know about the affair and the other man expected that you were having sex with your own wife. The other man enjoyed having sex with your wife anyways because he knew that he was taking affection that was suppose to be reserved for you. Truth, you having sex with your wife only shows the other man that she can have you anytime that she wanted, thus increasing the value of her as the prize. Stop having and valuing sex with her, it is nothing to be proud of.


:iagree:

Dear tpz,

You will do well to remember this. As ugly as this post is, TRy is right. 

On further thought, your having sex with your wayward wife was actually a mistake on multiple levels. 

The "Sticking it to the other man" doesn't fly because you were merely taking what you have already paid for and was rightfully yours to begin with.


----------



## jack.c

Pufferfish said:


> Oh Dude,
> 
> You just surrendered the high ground.
> 
> In a way, you have indulged her unfaithful behaviour and indirectly said that it is alright to step out on you. There is also an implication that you were alright about her having sex with other men because despite knowing, you were still having sex with her. That can come back and bite you on the butt later.
> 
> This is also not the action of someone who commands respect. It's like a wife who knows husband cheats on her but still allows him to come home and have sex. Get my drift?
> 
> I would understand if you did it because you wanted to "Stick it to the other man". If that was your intent, fine. By all means let the other man and his wife know. But judging from what you have written, I suspect that you are not that kind of person. It's your life, but I think that having sex with your wayward wife was a mistake. You have to stop entertaining your wife's every whim. It's seems to me that she dictates and dominates your relationship which is why this mess is happening in the first place.
> 
> Take charge your own destiny for heaven's sake. I'm only being tough on you because from your recent posts, you are still making excuses for her and playing along with her bad behaviour.



All those words just to say that he spit in the air to his own face?


----------



## LongWalk

WyshIknew said:


> Remember the poster who gave his WW a damn good seeing to?
> 
> Then informed OM.
> 
> Her AP never really thought of her the same, it ruined the affair, she wanted back but he had found someone else?



I think that was HardtoDetach.

Wonder how he is doing.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

tpz said:


> So last night WS asked to sleep in "our" bed and we had sex.


Oh dear tpz, she played you good!

Can't you see this woman is manipulating you and playing you like a fiddle for her OWN intents and needs?

Please tell me you have a clue?


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## LongWalk

TPZ,

You had sex with your wife. Don't get down on yourself for it. It she enjoy it. Did you feel self conscious?

Do not tell OM. But you can ask your wife if she is going to tell him.

Go forward in filing for divorce. Do not give her anything extra.

Do not display anger. Be calm. Show that you are moving on and will be happy without her.

Just say no to her cake eating.

She has lived a double life for a very long time. If she has a conscience, she must be aware that she has made a mess of her life.

I suspect she started sleeping with him soon after she started working for him.


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## Graywolf2

GusPolinski said:


> You're probably OK here IMO. Just see it for what it is (for you, just sex...hopefully) AND be aware that she's using sex w/ you as a means to one of the following...
> 
> 1. She wants to keep you on the leash as "Plan B".
> 2. As someone else mentioned, she may be trying to soften up your resolve in order to obtain an easier divorce settlement.
> 3. If it turns out that she's pregnant, she'll now be able to claim that the baby is (or at least might be) yours.
> 
> Having said all that, you probably shouldn't do it again.


:iagree:

4. Your wife finds sneaking around to have sex exciting. The OM wasn’t more exciting than you, it was the situation.

OP, reading between the lines of your posts I can see you taking your wife back someday. All she would have to do is say she loves you, say the children need a family and sex you up. I think she knows it too. 

If you don’t want her back but can’t trust yourself you need to burn some bridges. Tell her that she can never come back and tell the OM about the sex. Of course that may make the divorce settlement not as good for you.

If you don’t want her back and are sure you can remain strong and indifferent, I would behave differently. It would be smart to keep her happy until the divorce was final. I wouldn’t promise anything but I would let her think that you are a reliable plan B. 

The divorce will be easier and you will get a better deal. She will need a substantial divorce settlement if she is going to live alone. If she is confident that she will always have a man to help support her (the OM or you) the divorce terms aren’t as important. 

Be indifferent about sex. Never go after her for sex but be receptive if she throws herself at you. Use condoms and say it’s because you don’t know where the OM has been. Don’t mention birth control.

I personally don’t think you are strong enough for the smart plan.


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## cool12

TRy said:


> I do not agree with this point of view. Telling the other man that you had sex with your own wife, and you thinking that this is a big deal just makes you look weak. Until a little time ago you did not even know about the affair and the other man expected that you were having sex with your own wife. The other man enjoyed having sex with your wife anyways because he knew that he was taking affection that was suppose to be reserved for you. Truth, you having sex with your wife only shows the other man that she can have you anytime that she wanted, thus increasing the value of her as the prize. Stop having and valuing sex with her, it is nothing to be proud of.



i couldn't agree more. 
i think bragging to the OM that you're boinking your own wife makes you look desperate and pathetic. 
why would you even want the woman hell bent on leaving you?

move on!


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## WhiteRaven

tpz, you f*cked up(no pun intended).


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## just got it 55

WhiteRaven said:


> tpz, you f*cked up(no pun intended).


How do you know he was on the bottom 

55


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## WhiteRaven

just got it 55 said:


> How do you know he was on the bottom
> 
> 55


Banging your WW? He!! no.


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## warlock07

I think while telling the OM that you had sex with her sounds a little pathetic, you can always reword it.

Tell(text) him that she cheated on him with you and good luck with that..Leave it there

Sow the seeds...what happens will be none of your business


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## WyshIknew

WyshIknew said:


> Remember the poster who gave his WW a damn good seeing to?
> 
> Then informed OM.
> 
> Her AP never really thought of her the same, it ruined the affair, she wanted back but he had found someone else?





LongWalk said:


> I think that was HardtoDetach.
> 
> Wonder how he is doing.


No, found it.

Mad6r.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/64964-she-doesnt-think-she-cheated-24.html


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## tpz

I thought I might cop a bit of flack for posting about the sex, but didnt expect such a reaction. But you are correct it wasnt the right thing to do. It wasnt the high road I need to stay on. 

I texted her yesterday to say it was wrong, I regret it, wont happen again, and she was to sleep in other room last night, which did happen. That's where she will stay now until she moves out.

As for me, I only thought of it as sex, not making-love, and I wasnt conscious of particularly being motivated by needing to "stick it to him". I had too much wine and let my guard down, so there will be no more drinking while she is still here.

I've asked if she is going to tell POSOM about sex. She says she will think about it. She asked why, I told her because relationships should be built on openess and honesty. I dont think that I care if she does or doesnt though. I'm not sure if I want to rock their boat at this stage.

One of my priorities now is to get legal advice asap. As said before there is min 12 months separation before a D can even get filed here, but there may be the ability to get both parties to agree to a post-nup or even a property settlement prior to D. As someone suggested she is currently feeling guilty and will soon be in her honeymoon so may be open to agree on something favouring me and the kids. This is my hesitation now in doing anything that might piss off POSOM as I'm sure he would push my WS to extract most $ out of me. He certainly has no regard for me or my kids, whilst feeling guilty about his own family and needing to continue to provide for them.

Yesterday was very hard for me. Perhaps the hardest day yet since d-day. With her coming out and saying she is moving out to live with him, which as someone commented was the first honest thing she has said to me, things feel like they have changed for me. Now the cold hard facts (that you all knew so well from post #1!) are starting to sink in. She doesnt love me anymore. She doesnt want to be in my life anymore. She wants someone else. My life as I knew it (or thought I did) has gone. The feelings of emptiness, loss and rejection have been coming up and at times seem overwhelming.

It's also because prior to this I was in fight mode, I was busy doing everything I could to fight this. Denial perhaps. But now there's nothing left for me to do. I have to accept it and let it happen. I cant do anything about her anymore.

I went and got STI check yesterday. Results in about 3 days. I dont expect any issues. I have a referral for counselling with next Tues my first session. Also got some mild sleeping pills, got 6 hours last night at least.



Graywolf2 said:


> OP, reading between the lines of your posts I can see you taking your wife back someday. All she would have to do is say she loves you, say the children need a family and sex you up. I think she knows it too.
> ...
> I personally don’t think you are strong enough for the smart plan.


Thanks, challenge accepted. 

I have made it clear, she has repeated it back to me numerous times, there is no revolving door on this home or me anymore. She knows if it doesnt work with POSOM then she's not coming back here to this home. I get that she probably believes differently and that I will be a push-over.

If it were even to happen that she came back begging, I wouldnt let her in. She would have to bunk somewhere else. And I promise I will take a huge breath and post here for you all to give me what for.

But enough of that, I need to move on.


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## 86857

TPZ, first thing is hip, hip hooray! Because you're not going to have to do R. You lucky dog!  You may not feel lucky now but check out this new thread. Very interesting:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/184369-how-long-did-you-try-r-before-deciding-divorce.html

Do NOT worry or beat yourself up about having sex with her. So what. It's inconsequential in the scheme of things. It only proves she doesn't mind having sex with a guy behind another guy's back, first with OM behind your back, now with you behind OM's back even though she knew she was about to move in with him! 
He's getting the same woman you got! I doubt she will tell OM. I wouldn't tell OM if I were you simply because *you want the best divorce you can get *so you don't want to antagonise WS. 
*GET THE BEST DIVORCE SETTLEMENT YOU CAN.*
Do whatever you need to do. Be amicable if you think that will help. 

Your heart is broken for the person you thought WS was, not the person she actually is. 

Try to get out in the world a bit. There is a big world out there. Hit the gym or take up jogging/cycling or whatever if you don't already. Push yourself because you will have to. But it's worth it because the endorphins released will truly help - better than any anti-depressants. Maybe put your toe in the water and go to one of those singles nights. I did after I got divorced. I didn't want to date anyone and it sounded a bit corny but it ended up being a lot of fun. I got to chat to people, other men and women in the same position, single at 40+, have a few drinks and a dance and didn't have to sit at home on Saturday nights. Main thing right now is to keep as busy as you can.

You spent 20 years together and when you feel lonely for her because you will, remind yourself that for who knows how long, she was having a PA while pretending to be your wife. Try to see her for what she is, a cheater and a liar. The most horrible thing a person can do is lie to their spouse. 

If she had fallen out of love with you she could have got a divorce. And maybe she would have but maybe OM wouldn't leave his wife. Don't forget that when OM did leave his wife, he went back to her the very next day! Not much reassurance for your WS now is it. 

But hey, he changed his mind, or maybe his wife changed it for him and now they will shack up together - if he doesn't go back to his wife again of course. You also said that OM is moody, a heavy drinker and a narcissist. Further you said that your WS says she thinks he has BPD. 

She's got herself quite a package. A cheating moody narcissistic heavy drinker who isn't at all sure about leaving his wife and kids. 

Not only that. OM's wife is a stay-at-home Mom and they have a big mortgage. I feel so sorry for her. However he is going to have to pay a lot of child support and the mortgage. Doubt he'll have much left over to wine and dine your WS and take her on romantic holidays. Your WS is going to have to be around his kids when they come to stay with him. I can't imagine either party will be too happy about that! 

How old are OM's kids?

So it's not exactly a fairytale unfolding for your WS. It won't seem quite so exciting and fun when they have to put out the bins together, never mind this new arrangement. The first crack in their love affair was when OM decided to go back to his wife the very next day. Watch this space! 

TPZ, it's only weeks since your life was turned upside down with a phone call. You probably feel the worst that you have felt in your whole life. Yet it's a time when we BS have to be at our strongest. It sucks. 

You're doing great though you might not think so. 

Hang in there. Focus on a good divorce settlement right now for you and your kids. You're only in your 40s right? You're in your prime! Your kids are at university and are clearly doing well. Imagine if they were still very young. 

I said it before but just a reminder. If things start unravelling for WS, don't even think about going back. I would even refuse to discuss it if she complains to you because I feel there is a good chance of that happening. If she does, be prepared. Simply say, "Sorry, not my problem. Can't help you with that."


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

How are you kids dealing with this?
Hopefully your WW is not re-writing history and justifying the POSOM


----------



## tpz

@86857 said:


> Your heart is broken for the person you thought WS was, not the person she actually is.
> ...
> You spent 20 years together and when you feel lonely for her because you will, remind yourself that for who knows how long, she was having a PA while pretending to be your wife. Try to see her for what she is, a cheater and a liar. The most horrible thing a person can do is lie to their spouse.
> ...
> How old are OM's kids?
> ...
> You're doing great though you might not think so.


Thanks @86857, really appreciate the encouragement. It is settling in more each day how incredibly selfish and deceitful she has and is being.

OMs kids are younger, at a guess between 8 and 14.



CASE_Sensitive said:


> How are you kids dealing with this?
> Hopefully your WW is not re-writing history and justifying the POSOM


My kids are smarter than that, and I dont think WS would even attempt this. Even today the eldest said he wish she would hurry up and move out already.

I havent been moping about, instead went away with a bunch of guys (new friends) for a couple of days last weekend, and going to the gym regularly. Lost a bit of weight and will keep it up till I have a nice flat stomach.

Otherwise its a waiting game, WS says she will move out, not sure if it will to be alone or with POSOM, and not sure how long its going to take. It will be a relief though when it happens. As much as I want to push her out at times, I am working on keeping it amicable, in order to lawyer up at the right time for the best settlement possible.


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## 86857

Good work TPZ. 

Yep it sure does take a while for it to sink in. I found it so hard to believe on D-day. 
Hence my Avatar, "You what?????"

She seems to be dragging her feet about moving out. Hope she does so very soon!


----------

