# Failed R or succesfull 180?



## ohno

Ugh. Decided to reconcile with wife. There was no real euphoria to it aside from some stifled hysterical bonding. I have been open to things working out and willing to do what I need to do on my end for that to happen. 

She is doing some on her end for it to happen but not nearly enough. I am sure she feels the same about me. 

Her ****ty attitude about everything is one thing. I dealt with that for years and just always thought of it as the price of admission as it were. Now it bothers me. It has for awhile and my standing up to her is one reason why she asked for D (before we R'd). 

For another she doesn't take good care of our young kids. If I don't bathe them and get them into clean clothes, teeth brushed, beds made, story read and so on, it just doesn't get done. I had failed at doing any of that up until about a year ago and have gotten steadily better at it as she slacked. How long do I give her to square away???

Now the part that makes me the bad guy. We both had emotional affairs which was one reason we were going to D. We are doing no contact with those people and our cards are on the table. I actually trust her and all loose ends tie up nicely where that is concerned. She doesn't even chat with anyone at all period on the Internet (web flirty chatting was always an issue I had against her, I ***ing hate that). 

I find myself thinking of the life I can have without her in it. Of the people I am in NC with. Wife is wacked in the head, a non communicator, a "its always all your fault **** you I wont compromise" person when it comes to words but in action she dos compromise. 

I have promised to give it to the end of the year to see if things get better. I am not entirely sure it will. I feel somewhat like we are in competition rather than cooperation and currently I am "winning". I believe you quit while your ahead. Leaving now would be to my benefit. 

I'll see this through but it is hard because I am half-hearted at the moment. If only she would admit to having to try also. I simply can't live as always being the one who has to make up. It makes me angry. It makes the alpha in me want to tell her to **** off. I come close to that sometimes. I don't put up with her ****. 

Not sure what the conclusion is. Think I just need some reinforcement.


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## Maneo

What will be best for the kids, not what is best for you or best for her, but or the kids?


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## cdbaker

Did you both spend a lot of time determining how you got the point of D? Any IC or MC? What led you both to EA's? I don't know if the R will have much of a chance if you both haven't really taken a lot of time to figure out what led you to this point and what steps need to be made to change course. Otherwise the same inputs will inevitably lead to the same outputs.


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## ohno

We are both very clear on what lead to the D, minus her acknowledging her constantly rotten attitude and taking any responsibility for our financial situation. She had an EA online because she said she had a friendship that went to far and when she realized it went to far she cut it off. I didn't even know about that until she told me. I had an EA when she said she wanted a D, it was short lasting but intense.

So ya, I see (again) me doing what she needs me to do to make it work and her not doing that fully. Then I stop doing what will make it work and she asks for a d or talks about it again. Its a cycle. I am tired of playing catchup.

No MC, she refuses it.


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## ohno

Maneo said:


> What will be best for the kids, not what is best for you or best for her, but or the kids?


That is the big one really. I think their quality of life would improve if we were divorced but there is this massive thing about how divorce destroys kids. So it is a really tough call.


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## cdbaker

Well, if you are done putting in the effort, or only willing to put in a partial less than 100% effort, then no need to waste anyone's time right?

I get the feeling that she probably feels the same way you do. Isn't feeling terribly motivated, maybe depressed or otherwise unhappy. Sort of just hoping things will get better. If either of you have an attitude like that, then I think you're both wasting your time and doing a severe disservice to each other and your kids especially. I'd say you should either make the decision to lead your family and be the first to step up with 100% effort that includes a committment to reading a few relationship books, starting MC by yourself if need be, and personally flushing out any thoughts of "wouldn't my life be better if..." or maybe even the affair fog you probably had during your EA, or just call it now and lessen the pain of everyone involved. Long term, I think you'll be better off whether it works or not if you go with the first option however...

Best of luck to you both.


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## ohno

Thanks. We keep having these talks. She is non-communicator when it comes to her taking responsibility for things she has done wrong. She tries to communicate through music. She will make me sit there and watch a music video with her with the lyrics on screen over and over again and say, "do you get it? do you get it?". It is the "I love you but not in love with you"theme. That just seems old and tired. I am sick of thinking about it. Last night we had another talk. I told her she is my best friend and I love her but I have to let her go. Have to let go of what she meant to me as a woman. I made it clear that doesn't mean D or separation, but I gotta get my **** straight and man up totally outside of any feelings or obligations for her. She seemed to really like that. Worst case scenario we split up and then et back together again later. I see that happening. I know that will happen if we separate or d. We could separate and have multiple EAs and PAs for a year and then et back together and go strong for another 10 years. But I don't want to ut the kids through that. 

I think she is out of the fog, am not sure I am though. And I told her that. I told her I still think about them (my ow) and how awesome things could be with them in the short term but in the long term the friendship probably wouldn't be there with them and the relationships would likely fail in the end. And ffs me and wife have just been through too much together. Those kinds of bonds you only really form once with anyone I think. 

I'm tired of drama and fighting. I don't want to rug sweep. I am not immature enough to think I am going to have some cake either. Just gotta work on me I guess. We got a great family. Strong. Not so sure I am confused at this point, just tired of fighting ad playing catch up.


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## cdbaker

I'm really just so confused here. You have to let her go, but that doesn't mean divorce or separation? YOu see yourself splitting up and then getting back together later? Why split up then if you believe your will get back together? You don't want to put your kids through that, but are going forward with it anyway?

If you believe relationships with the other women wouldn't last, but it would with your wife, then why end anything with your wife? You see it being awesome with them in the short term, but you aren't immature enough to think you are going to have your cake?

Very confusing. I mean, it sounds like you are being selfish, that you do want your cake and to eat it to, that you want no obligation to your wife or children as far as making responsible decisions for their benefit, etc. And your view of "Manning up" includes breaking all your commitments to your wife and children? For what? "Short term awesomeness?"

I'd say you should "man up" by taking responsible steps towards healing your family, which doesn't seem very strong at all right now. To lead your family by example, by being the first to sacrifice for them, and do everything in your power to protect your children's sense of stability, security and relational expectations. Giving up on your commitments because you are "tired" of the effort required is the exact opposite of what it means to be a man.

I'm not trying to beat up on you here and I do apologize for that, but dang... I think you need a wake up call.


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## ohno

I think I am not explaining myself well. When I say "let go of her" I mean not push or try to force a romantic relationship with her. It doesn't mean giving up on the relationship. It means focusing solely on being a good father and human and even husband. I miss the ow simply because I could talk to them without getting yelled at lol. I really just want my wife to stop being such a hard-ass about everything so we can just chill together. She wants non-stop sex but when someone is pretty damn mean to you 24/7 it is difficult to look past that and just focus on the sex. Issues on issues on issues. She is really hard to talk to but she will be really affectionate and so on. 

I have no plans on breaking up with my wife or pursuing anything with any other women.


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## cdbaker

Hhhhmmm, I mean whatever works for you I suppose.

It sounds like you are wanting to scale back the effort on the marriage. If your wife has crappy attitudes or is a hardass about everything, then I just don't see how that is going to help at all. If anything it might make her behavior worse. Saying that you think you should let go of what she has meant to you as a woman sounds like another typical step on the road to divorce, or at least an affair. I believe you don't have any plans in place to end your marriage, but I can't see how this could possible help your marriage. I think you should realize that you are probably putting it at great risk.


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## harrybrown

If she will not go to marriage counseling, would she go to IC, if you would also go to IC? Then later try MC?


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## ohno

Response/update-

Things are working out really well with my wife. We are closer on every level than we have been for many years. I can see how what I said is confusing. I think my wife and I are finally on the same lunacy wavelength because now no one really gets either one of us but each other. 

My saying "letting her go", I think, really just meant to stop (let go of) obsessing about the relationship (trying to force it) and instead facilitating its natural emergence. Just got a good idea for a book (lol), "The Organic Marriage". 

I have another thread about being assertive, and have made some observations about myself. I do tend to obsess on any problem until it is fixed. Some problems can't be "fixed" and instead what needs to happen is healing. 

Going by the "organic" theme, think of the analogy of a plant. When a plant isn't healthy, you don't "fix" it. You put into place conditions which will most likely result in the plant fixing its self. You cut off the most unhealthy parts of the plant and you make it so the healthiest growth is exposed to the most sunlight. A less stressful (on the plant) method is to gently tie down the less healthy parts so they receive the least light and tie up the healthiest parts so they receive the most light. 

I hope that makes sense.


I am working on getting us both into IC. I will probably go whether or not she does, and odds are once I am doing it, she will be much more apt t go herself. And then MC.


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## cdbaker

This last reply makes a lot more sense as far as clarifying your position. We men are ingrained with a "fix it" response to every problem. There are a lot of times when that doesn't work, especially with women. So if by "let her go" you really meant "acknowledge that maybe I can't control/fix this situation" then that makes a lot of sense. I still think your goal should be to salvage the marriage of course, but certainly you can approach it a different way.

I think you are thinking waaay to far ahead, trying to plan out contingencies and what if scenarios when you really aught to just focus on your end goal. Assuming that end goal is to have a great marriage with your wife, then I'd put all of your focus on that alone.

But cdbaker, I can focus my efforts on my wife but still entertain other scenarios as well!

To a degree, but I have found that even thinking about back-up plans and such will inevitably mean that you are already putting one foot out the door. Imagine a soldier in a battle who feels like his position is growing more and more dangerous by the moment, but has no escape route, no fall-back position and no reinforcements on the way. Imagine a similar situation where the soldier has an escape tunnel right behind him to use if he needs it. Which soldier is going to put up a stronger fight and have better odds of winning? In your case, if the marriage fails, you'll land on your feet either way, so in your case I think you'd actually do yourself a favor by actively pushing out of your mind any thoughts that don't support your end goal. Other women, life without your wife, etc.

Thanks for the clarifications! Good luck with IC/MC.


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