# Am I fool or an idiot?



## TooManyTimes (Jun 12, 2012)

This is my first time doing anything like this so please try to forgive my editing and protocol discrepancies.

About me: I have had a few relationships where I was betrayed. The one that did the most damage was a 4 year relationship that finished with me finding out over a single week that she had slept with half of my friends and one of my brothers. I’m damaged, jealous and insecure in relationships. I try to keep this under control but I think I eventually drive the women in my life to cheat.

I am a 43 year old man married to a 31 year old woman (we’ll call her ‘Ann’). We have two sons together (5&7) and my son from a previous marriage (16) lives with us. 

We met at work while I was still married and Ann was engaged. My marriage was loveless & purely based on my oldest son. I had devoted myself to staying with her for the sake of our son. 

When office manager brought Ann to my office to introduce us it was love at first site. We got to know each other over a few weeks and heavy flirtation started. Within 6 weeks we had moved to a full-on affair. During this time we spent countless hours discussing our past relationships and sexual escapades. To my recollection, most of hers involved co-workers. In fact, I can only think of one job that she held where she didn’t sleep with an associate. Most of her stories involved a boss.

My ex moved to another state to be closer to her family. After 6 months of traversing two states every other weekend, I decided to quit my job and start a consulting business to allow me to move closer to my son. Without hesitation, Ann went along. My ex put her through hell every step of the way. She was called ****, ***** and every other name my ex could get out of her mouth while I was out of earshot. Ann didn’t tell me about all of these attacks, but my ex confessed to them years later. When we talked she said “I’d rather let her vent to me than take it out on your son”.

I had to travel extensively for my new business, but I was also able to take a considerable amount of time off to be with my son and Ann. Depending on the destination and the length of the project, she would sometimes come with me. Ann didn’t work for the first year that we lived there but, after winning over the ex, she was able to participate in school, church all activities. At times my insecurities would kick in and I would start questioning where she’d been and why she isn’t home, etc. She would occasionally let me know how controlling I am and I’d relent knowing that it’s not her fault that I’m insecure. I tried to deal with it and began to open up and trust her.

After a few years we decided she would go back to work as a waitress at a local bar. She started her job while I was on a project in the west. After three days on the job I noticed that she was coming home hours after the bar closed. This turned into a knock-down, drag-out fight finishing with her telling me “you don’t trust me, I might as well f*** someone”. She hung up and I couldn’t reach her for a day or two. She told me she had just taken some time to think. She met me at the airport when I returned home and something wasn’t right. She is the type of woman that doesn’t take any sh*t but now she seemed like a child with an undiscovered bad report card. “You don’t know it yet, but you’re going to be mad at me!” (I know that this opens me to unyielding psychoanalysis, but I couldn’t think of another analogy) It wasn’t until I discovered that I had contracted chlamydia from the Bar Manager trans-vaginally that she confessed to cheating. What followed was weeks of me tearing her down and building her up to tear her down again with the skill of a drill sergeant. I wanted her to feel my pain somehow. I wanted her to know how devastating it was to have let down my guard to trust her only to have her betray me. I still couldn’t stand the thought of losing her so we decided to work on it. 

I had a six week contract in the UK and asked her to come along. We still fought at the beginning but we eventually realized that we could love each other again. I realized that she shouldn’t have needed to work so hard for the trust in the first place, it was my issue. 
When we came back to the states it was a beautiful. We decided to get married and raise a family. We decided that since I had a good income, Ann would stay at home to raise the kids until they were in school. Ann had gone back to school remotely while she raised the kids. She always amazed me that the kids were so well taken care of and she still managed to keep a 4.0 or better. Time went by and the kids went to school and Ann stayed at home. We fought about this from time to time but she never found a job. That’s when things started to take a turn for the worse.

As the economy took a slide, my contracts went with it. We could no longer afford to be a one income. Ann finally decided to get into my family’s insurance business. She signed up, got all of the materials, finished a six week course in two and aced the exam. She is amazing like that. If she’s given a challenge, she attack it with such tenacity that she’d die before she let it beat her. 

She worked for my brother and sister-in-law selling health insurance for a short time before moving on to life and annuities. I was in Australia when she landed a job at a local office and the change in her was amazing! I told her every day how happy I was to see her excelling so quickly. She was so excited to go to work every day. “I got my first sale today”, “My boss, Mike, is training me on these new annuities”, “I told Mike how we should transfer these funds before he had a chance to tell me!”, “Mike…”,”…Mike”,”…late night with Mike…”. Then the calls and texts stop coming. It was summer vacation so my oldest was watching the kids as I was still in Australia. One night, I hadn’t heard from her to say good night, I called her cell a few times and it just went to voice mail. It was nearly 11PM so I was thinking she had just forgotten and went to sleep. I called Austin to make sure everything was well and he said she wasn’t home. She called me back to say she was still working. When I asked to whom she was selling insurance at 11PM , she lost her mind. “you don’t trust me, I might as well f*** someone”. By that point I had made a lot of changes in me thinking and I did trust her, to an extent. I let it go but had a fight with her the next day about how I never get to talk to her anymore. I couldn’t understand why she couldn’t find 2 minutes during the day to send or respond to a text. Somehow this escalated to talk about divorce. There were a few more late insurance sales that week.

The following week, Mike was at a conference in Cincinnati from Sunday to Friday. It’s tough to be in this position while you’re on the other side of the planet, so I was pleased to know that they’d be apart for a week. Then Sunday came….

I was calling to check in since I had not heard for Ann all day but her phone was ringing busy. Realizing that it was midnight and she normally wouldn’t have to calls going that late, I logged into the phone companies site to make sure that Ann had not forgotten to pay the bill (this has happened in the past). The bill was paid, but I could see the call she was on logged. It was a Rhode Island number (at the time I didn’t know Mike was from RI). In a fit of jealousy and panic, I picked up my phone and called the number. As I pressed the send key I got ahold of myself and hit the end key. I didn’t think the call had gone through. Immediately, Ann called.
“Hey, how are you? What’s going on?”. 
I was trying to process what just happened and responded, “What do you mean?”
“You sound funny. Is everything okay?” In the sweetest voice.
“I’ve been trying to get in touch with you but it’s ringing busy.”
“Yeah, I was on the phone with my friend Heather. It’s weird that it would ring busy, huh?” she said
“Heather? Who has a Rhode Island number?”
“My f*cking boss! I can’t believe this sh*t! You hacked my phone, you actually hacked my phone!!! This is total bullsh*t! I’m going to bed, goodnight!!!” Click. The call to her boss that started immediately after went until after 2AM.
I tried to plead my case but she kept saying that she can’t live with the jealousy anymore. I treat her like sh*t. I can’t be happy that she’s started a new career. She’ll be forever punished for the Bar Manager incident. My heart believed what she was saying and I spent the rest of the week kissing her ass telling her how perfect I thought she was. I couldn’t bear to think we would be splitting up while I was on the other side of the planet. 
My head told me that there was something going on and I needed to look into it. From Sunday to Saturday there were 840 minutes and 237 texts on his number. Five out of seven days the last call finished after midnight. The latest finished after 2AM. She claims that they were going over annuities, but 14 hours’ worth?

I’m not sure what’s going on in his house, but the last call to my wife’s phone was on Sat morning. There hasn’t been another call or text since. Coincidentally, my wife has been a lot sweeter and now wants to reconcile.

I know that I’ve been an ass in the past and I still have issues with jealousy, but am I wrong to think this sounds a little strange? I’d be a lot more comfortable moving on with our marriage if she said that they had some torrid affair than trying to make myself believe that this was all innocent.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

They were not discussing annuities.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

You also had a big clue back when she said most of her sexual escapades involved bosses, coworkers, etc. As well the fact that she got involved with you while you were married and she was engaged...

So you had red flags right at the beginning and now you are wondering how it all turned out like it has?? Sorry your wife sounds like a ****ty *****.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Wow, sad to hear this whole story but the likelihood of 2 people who had an affair on their Fiancé/wife is more or less doomed to fail. Does sound like she is a serial cheater. And she is much sweeter to you because she wants to keep things the way they are. She cheats with more men while you work and being home money. Serial cheater and cake eater...

I would definatly get some MC if you think there is any hope. But sounds like she won't change any time soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Since you asked it this shouldn't be considered a personal attack.

You're an idiot for cheating on your then wife and a fool to keep your affair partner.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

TooManyTimes said:


> From Sunday to Saturday there were 840 minutes and 237 texts on his number. Five out of seven days the last call finished after midnight. The latest finished after 2AM. She claims that they were going over annuities, but 14 hours’ worth?


Yeah that is the kind of volume of calls and texts I saw between my wife and the OM. They didn't work together, but they were having an affair.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TMT,

MC might help but you need the truth from her. 

And do you really think she is tustworthy after your own Afffair with her????

2 tickets for the Karma bus coming up.

Sorry to say but you need the truth. Annuities my butt!!

HM64


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

If she/he will cheat with you, she/he will cheat on you. Are you surprised?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I got as far as where I read that both of you cheated in order to start your relationship and I can guess the rest: she's cheating on you. BIG SURPRISE. What did you expect?!?!?!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

TooManyTimes said:


> I’m not sure what’s going on in his house, but the last call to my wife’s phone was on Sat morning. There hasn’t been another call or text since. Coincidentally, my wife has been a lot sweeter and now wants to reconcile


it's not coincidental. Mike got cold feet. Your call to him probably scared the hell out of him. The fog lifted and his brain overruled his junk when the prospect of consequences to his own situation became clear. Of course she wants to reconcile now. 'Anne' is a manipulative harpy and you are on puppet strings. Sorry.

Extended gaslighting, a manipulative DS and being skilled at denial do funny things to your mind. This isn't that complicated bro, it is fairly clear whats happening.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

If I was your exwife I would be loving this watching you go thru this crap. Karma indeed....

She gave you so many clues and hints about her character and vice versa...you both kind of deserve each other in my opinion.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

There's an old saying *"What they do with you, they can do to you"* and your situation is a perfect example of this. Your wife is now using the same justifications she used on her fiance when she was actively cheating on him with you. You were a cheater once but she is a serial cheater who is not likely to stop no matter with who she is involved with. That is the reality you have to face and base your plan of action.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

There has never been any trust in your relationship.

It was born of an affair where you both cheated on your wife/fiance at the time and then she cheated on you with her boss and now she's cheating again.

It would take a miracle for that trust to be restored. If you can't do it, then separate and part ways. This relationship sounds like a nightmare.


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## Mrs1980 (May 6, 2011)

Wow. I always wondered what type of person the Live in boyfriend the OW had...The OW is 35 never married, has strings of office boyfriends on the side, then has this poor guy at home. But the poor guy in my OW case at least hasn't married her and never cheated on anyone either...Wow. Thanks for the insight into the hell of a cheater. This brightened my day a little


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

This is one thing I have said to H many many times..how could you have found someone attractive that knew you were married and thought nothing of it and still continued contact with you. That was also giving you hints about make sure you delete this and delate that so your wife doesn't see it....almost like I was an imposition to them...like I have no business knowing what my H was up to.

Doesn't that give you a red flag about this person in terms of integrity, morality, etc. To me people that cheat are broken inside so how do you expect to have a healthy relationship with them.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

highwood said:


> how could you have found someone attractive that knew you were married and thought nothing of it and still continued contact with you.


He thought _they_ were different. He was different, she only did that to _other_ people.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Exactly.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

The truly amazing thing is (if this is real) how little insight this poster has re an affair generated relationship evolving like this.
He described the genesis of his marriage as if it was no big deal, as if it was legitimate to begin with.
This shows me how little regard both he and his now wife have for marriage. 
It is amazing to me that someone could even be halfway surprised by how this has turned out.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> He thought _they_ were different. He was different, she only did that to _other_ people.


Both my XW's, in their past, had been OWs to married men. I knew about this but thought it was youthful stupidity and that I was different(hubris there).
I think if one comes across a person who has ever been involved with a married person, you need to really proceed with caution. Unless that person has really changed, look out.
Problem is they tell you they have changed and regret it etc. So, don't just listen, watch their actions carefully.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> I think if one comes across a person who has ever been involved with a married person, you need to really proceed with caution.


Fun to catch for sport, but not keeper material. Remove the hook, throw it back. Move to a better fishin' hole.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

TooManyTimes said:


> My ex moved to another state to be closer to her family. After 6 months of traversing two states every other weekend, I decided to quit my job and start a consulting business to allow me to move closer to my son. Without hesitation, Ann went along. My ex put her through hell every step of the way. She was called ****, ***** and every other name my ex could get out of her mouth while I was out of earshot. Ann didn’t tell me about all of these attacks, but my ex confessed to them years later. When we talked she said “I’d rather let her vent to me than take it out on your son”.


Awww, the wh0re with the heart of gold. 

Poor Ann, your ex-wife put the trash that was cheating with her H through hell? Your ex must be a monster and Ann obviously saved your son from so much pain. 

Seriously?!


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Zanna said:


> Awww, the wh0re with the heart of gold.
> 
> Poor Ann, your ex-wife put the trash that was cheating with her H through hell? Your ex must be a monster and Ann obviously saved your son from so much pain.
> 
> Seriously?!


No kidding....your wife called her names..gee I wonder why! Boy you and your current wife are real great catches aren't you....real winners!:rofl:


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

highwood said:


> If I was your exwife I would be loving this watching you go thru this crap. Karma indeed....
> 
> She gave you so many clues and hints about her character and vice versa...you both kind of deserve each other in my opinion.


:iagree:

Normally, I feel sorry for the BS when they post a new thread here. I can't explain why, but for some odd reason, I'm not feeling much empathy for this guy. I wonder why that is? 

TooManyTimes, I'm guessing you're now feeling how your former betrayed wife felt, no? It hurts, doesn't it? That's the pain of betrayal. I think you should get on your knees and beg for your wife's forgiveness for spying on her. You violated her privacy. You need to forget this and move on, sweep it under the rug. Stop being insecure and controlling. Love her back into your marriage.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> I think you should get on your knees and beg for your wife's forgiveness for spying on her. You violated her privacy. You need to forget this and move on, sweep it under the rug. Stop being insecure and controlling. Love her back into your marriage.


Yup. she's been doing the time, she might as well do the crime.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Yeah, there must be some need you left unmet. Your bad!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Wow.... I won't bash you for your past b/c everyone else already did. But your wife is very good at manipulating and controlling you. Every time you get close to catching her- she flips it around back to you- and makes you the bad guy. You end up apologizing and begging for forgiveness. She is clearly having something inappropriate with her boss- and as soon as you bring it up she makes YOU THE ONE IN TROUBLE. she is good! To answer your question: Your a fool. Knock it off already and put this ***** in her place.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

JuliaP said:


> she is good! Knock it off already and put this ***** in her place.


lol. That's not going to happen. That's like telling an impala to stand up for itself and attack a tiger.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Tough crowd today. That varmint won't show his face in these here parts again.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:,,,, KARMA


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