# Any insight/thoughts appreciated



## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

The story: in 06 I discovered my wife's EA with a co-worker by hacking her email. She TTd and I kept searching, and found that it was a PA. Not extensive, he really wasn't that interested, just being a selfish ahole. We ended up in MC, which led to a R. You all know how devastating the discovery was. WW is an ACOA who has serious issues. Her five siblings to too. It's been 22 years since my FIL drank but they are still angrier than hell. I am not judging. My parents divorced when I was 5, never saw my father again til his deathbed. I was subsequently sexually abused by a much older brother when I was 6. I have been working hard over the last five years or so in IC, and recently had a heart to heart with my mother, and I have decided that I can't carry that anger and hurt and bewilderment anymore. Tho the residue is always there.
So. About a year or so into R, I started drinking, and it led down the slope. I am currently sober and in AA, but my WW is so conflict avoidant. I suspected her of something, EA?, when we had a party and this Swedish guy was there, and I could see the glaze in her eyes. He ended up staying three days screwing a 22 year old in my guest room. They barely came out. Well my wife does research with this guy and she goes to Sweden for the month of July. I slowly figured out something was going on and checked the phone records. Over the past 18 months she texts him at all hours of the nite when she is away. So I confront her with this over the phone and she says "I wd never hurt like that again". She blames all our marital problems on my alcohol abuse. Which certainly I admit has played a big role.

So she gets home, says "maybe" to MC. And says it again. Not feeling like I know everything, I found a love letter to this guy. Evidently He's her bf for the past few years, and she would move to Sweden if he wanted her to. We have two kids 11 and 14. Well she writes about a kiss in a sauna, and dancing, etc. we r at a family reunion when I confront her with the letter and she downplays it saying that he was drunk, told her the next day that it was a mistake and they are just friends and colleagues. She wrote this letter right after that conv. Our conv of course came back to my drinking.
So, I don't know what to do. I found an atty I can contact, but just don't know if I want a D or possible R. We r not in good shape financially despite good salaries. How can I ever trust her again? Should I tell the OM to stay out of my marriage? He is like 26 and she is 44 same as me. So she is in fantasyland. He evidently was kissing a lot of girls on this research junket.
I go back and forth between amused detachment and absolute devastation. I am focusing on becoming a better person, and learning loving-kindness towards my self.
I could go on, but...
Any thoughts appreciated.


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## movin on (Jan 24, 2012)

Why was a Swedish guy banging a 22 yo in YOUR home?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

So why did you let her go to Sweden when you "smelled" something was wrong?


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Yeah, shd have thrown him out of the house. My mistake. She gets paid a lot to work in Sweden.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

shes not he person for you. leave her ! pull up your boot straps and move on with the rest of your life.

JMHO.


or himhaw around and drag it out until you finally wise up after she lies 1000 times.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How much more humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? She has no problem lying and cheating on you. She clearly has no respect for you what-so-ever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Look what you did didn't help, but she chose to cheat TWICE. Again, your drinking was bad, but a year? She F'd the marriage and you dealt with it poorly. So, instead of understanding your pain and her culpability she falls in love with a guy. Then she promptly blames YOU for her affair. 

As the saying goes "first time, shame on me second time shame on you."

Time to go.

Don't let her build up the ACOA, which is terrible, defense because you drank too much. If that was really the issue why is she chasing a guy who


> saying that he was drunk, told her the next day that it was a mistake and they are just friends and colleagues.


 Then she falls in love with the guy? I mean she is blaming you, while chasing a guy that is in the same boat.

Don't fall in the trap of allowing your issue to let her walk all over you. Let her go.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

It does sound like she's in fantasy land. How long do you plan to let her remain there, saying "maybe" to your earnest efforts to repair your marriage? It sounds like she's convinced herself this is the life she deserves - a young stud, sex, travel, escape, and attachment to her husband and children only when convenient for her. 

I agree that it sounds like it's time to begin the path to divorce. Her story is not inspiring much hope within me for a successful reconciliation, but the first step in anything is for you to put your foot down and stop this selfish behavior as it relates to you and your children. If that helps her hit rock bottom and snaps her back into reality, whether or not you choose to reconcile, that's great. But as a first step, you need to separate yourself from her (if she won't be your partner), fix your own problems, and begin to find happiness within yourself. Do it for your future happiness and for your kids, if nothing else.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So, your wife hates your drinking, yet accepts the fact that her young lover drinks to excess?:scratchhead:

Do I hear the sound of blameshifting?


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks for the cold water. I never thought about the OM's drinking. Same with the first guy too. All she does with these people is work and then drink til late. She is usually smashed when contacting these people.
Yeah we entered r too early first time, and it bubbled up and I drowned it.
Christ, this sucks. She has already gotten my daughter on her side, even to the point where my daughter said "just leave him." My son, tho, and I are very close. I think my hesitation has been him- he's anxious and sensitive. And I remember what divorce did to me.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Erebus, what do you think is worse: your children growing up with divorced parents where daddy has his self respect and acts like a father or your children growing up in a home where mommy bangs other guys and daddy is sort of miffed about it but does not put his foot down. Which value system do you want your son and daughter to think is the right one?

You make it sound like all the choices are hers. Reconciliation,
MC etc. You make it sound like it is all her decision. How about this:

How about filing for divorce with an injunction stating the kids stay in the marital home until custody is determined. Oh, and put a demand in for alimony. She makes more money than you right? With her traveling so much I imagine she does not have time to watch the kids. Tell her you will consider reconciliation if she shows you by her actions she is truly remorseful and wants to save the marriage. Baring reconciliation on her part then she is free to leave the marital home and go bang the POS. Your children will remain with you and she will pay you child support and alimony. You and your children will survive just fine.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Erebus said:


> Thanks for the cold water. I never thought about the OM's drinking. Same with the first guy too. All she does with these people is work and then drink til late. She is usually smashed when contacting these people.
> Yeah we entered r too early first time, and it bubbled up and I drowned it.


 Yep, she is rewriting the history while ignoring her own hypocrisy.



> Christ, this sucks. She has already gotten my daughter on her side, even to the point where my daughter said "just leave him." My son, tho, and I are very close. I think my hesitation has been him- he's anxious and sensitive. And I remember what divorce did to me.


Time to go, don't let her ruin your son. Not trying to insult your daughter, but thinking drinking excuses cheating is not a good sign.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Erebus,

Wow...your last post really hit me.

So your WW has now instilled in her own daughter that cheating and running out on your family are OK if you are not happy in a M. 

What a tragedy. I'm so sorry for you.

This would crush me if I was a parent to realize my child had just been molded into a person who believes such crappy behavior is fine.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Erebus said:


> Thanks for the cold water. I never thought about the OM's drinking. Same with the first guy too. All she does with these people is work and then drink til late. She is usually smashed when contacting these people.
> Yeah we entered r too early first time, and it bubbled up and I drowned it.
> Christ, this sucks. She has already gotten my daughter on her side, even to the point where my daughter said "just leave him." My son, tho, and I are very close. I think my hesitation has been him- he's anxious and sensitive. And I remember what divorce did to me.


Kick her to the curb


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Kissing in the sauna is called foreplay. 
They probably did not have sex...
until after the sauna.

Besides you do know in Scandanavia its naked sauna right. Your naked wife and this naked dude. You know naked kissing leads to other things right?

RIGHT?

Get any additional evidence and proof then D. You've been duped twice. 

What state?


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

IMHO, you should evaluate what is important. Your self respect, the respect of your children and family, or the humiliation of knowing your wife has none for you. I know that's a big pill to swallow, but for us we have come here for help. That's why you are here. We all have been felt the drawn and quartered syndrome of infidelity. Walking away with your head up and respect intact is the key. You own 50% of the marriage but 0% of the affair. That's on her. Good luck.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Erebus, why are you even bothering to ask for advice? You know that here is no chance of reconciling with your WW. You can live the life of a cuckold or you can divorce her. Pick one.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Yeah, I am coming around to this realization. Thanks folks. I never knew this stuff was so common. What's that song from U2, Bad, " I'm wide awake, I'm not sleeping...oh no..."
Sorry you all are here too.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Maine


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Erebus,

Your wife is not demonstrating remorse for what she has done. She may never. Unless she does, you shouldn't be considering anything but D.

Don't let your guilt for drinking obfuscate the reality of your situation. That's what happened to me after I discovered my wife's A. I drank a lot prior to it. I wasn't abusive to her, but would just isolate. I went to rehab and cleaned up my act during the time it was going on. By the time I found out she had a two year PA, I was one year sober.

Still, that guilt I felt, allowed me to accept her blame shifting and factored in my decision to R with her - and do it much too quickly. I finally began to understand that the drinking was a marital issue - not related to her cheating. I was fortunate that she came to accept that as well and has demonstrated remorse for almost two years now. Had she not, I would have divorced her. I learned an awful lot from TAM.

You have the opportunity to set your wife straight right from the beginning, if you will use it. You need to realize that she has caused the current crisis in your marriage; not you. Your mind set needs to be that she has to receive consequences and that you are heading straight to D. 

In the unlikely event she turns around, accepts the consequences, and owns what she did; goes no contact and demonstrates complete remorse - then, if you still are willing, you can consider "delaying" the D process. Then, you can work together on the marital issues. But not unless or until. 

Don't expect it to happen though. I wish you luck.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Erebus said:


> Christ, this sucks. She has already gotten my daughter on her side, even to the point where my daughter said "just leave him." My son, tho, and I are very close. I think my hesitation has been him- he's anxious and sensitive. And I remember what divorce did to me.


 Your wife has lost all respect for you because you have let her get away with cheating on you with no consequences. This lack of respect for you has now been pasted on to your daughter. If you continue down your current path, it will only be a matter of time before your son also loses respect for you. The fact that your wife has involved your children, and is trying to turn them against you, means that it is game over for your marraige no matter what you do. It is time to file for divorce and mean it. At least go out with your head high and with some dignity. If not for your own self respect, at least for the respect of your children. 

You have let your wife claim that it was your drinking that made her cheat, yet your drinking problem came after her first affair, and in fact was probably the cause of your drinking problem. But of course your daughter does not know this, because you let your wife get away with keeping it a secret from your daughter until after she was turned against you by your drinking. In fact does your daughter even know now about both affairs and that the first affair came before your drinking problem? Does your daughter know that your wife and her affair partners get drunk when they cheat, such that your drinking was never a real issue with your wife, only an excuse?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Erebus said:


> I remember what divorce did to me.


I also remember. My parents divorced when I was eleven and it should have been a lot sooner. I lived all that time in a totally dysfunctional household. That wasn't a good thing for me.

Don't think that you are doing your children a favor by staying together in this type of environment. You can still be a good father to them without staying married.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Erebus, what do you think is worse: your children growing up with divorced parents where daddy has his self respect and acts like a father or your children growing up in a home where mommy bangs other guys and daddy is sort of miffed about it but does not put his foot down. Which value system do you want your son and daughter to think is the right one?...


:iagree: THIS!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

His wife has no respect for him because she chooses not to. She has no respect for herself, so how could she respect him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Erebus said:


> Yeah, I am coming around to this realization. Thanks folks. I never knew this stuff was so common. What's that song from U2, Bad, " I'm wide awake, I'm not sleeping...oh no..."
> Sorry you all are here too.


For your children's sake I hope you are not going to dawdle any longer. Forget about singing songs feeling sorry for yourself. No point in that.* Do *something about it. Go see a lawyer ASAP. Hand her divorce [papers and tell her to move, that a cheating mother is not welcome in your family home. Show her you mean business, that her infidelities will no longer not be tolerated. Explain to her that she chose to cheat and betray her marriage and her family but you choose to not to be married to someone who would disrespect you and your children. Explain to her that her cheating was her choice and if she wants to blame your drinking for her being unfaithful that she is free to do that while the door hits her on the a$$ on the way out.


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## chazmataz3 (May 29, 2013)

26 years sober in AA. why do you let her blame YOUR drinking when you haven't been drinking and SHE has? the quickiest way to stop that bull is to have your conversation at ic. she makes good money in Sweden and she will be making it with out you pretty soon!


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## chazmataz3 (May 29, 2013)

by the way have you talked to your sponsor??


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Can I ask, what has your wife discussed with your daughter in order for her to say to 'just leave him'? What is your daughters mindset and thinking in saying that? Is it just the drinking? Is it continual arguments as a result of? What is she mad about? And how do you know she said this? Did she say it in front of you or did your wife tell you?


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Remains- idk what they talked about. My WW told me she said this. My daughter does know about the first one tho, and I suspect the second. She is smart. I doubt she knows all tho. When telling kids about a divorce, do you tell them reasons? Oh Brooklyn, I ain't having a pity party. That song is about addiction.
I am making an appt with one of the best family lawyers in Maine. And we'll go from there. Thanks for your support! I needed to hear some straight talk. Don't have many people. She really has no clue how f'd up she is, and the carnage.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

You both have issues, but she sounds like a serial cheater who has no intentions of stopping. I would cut my losses and divorce her, personally.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Erebus said:


> idk what they talked about. My WW told me she said this.


 Your WW just confirmed that she is bad mouthing you to your children behind your back, and giving them her false version of reality while having you not talk in detail about it so as not to make the WW look bad. She is the cheater not you. How does this make any sense?



Erebus said:


> My daughter does know about the first one tho, and I suspect the second. She is smart. I doubt she knows all tho. When telling kids about a divorce, do you tell them reasons?


 Yes you tell them. They need to know. If you do not tell your children the truth, then your wife's lies will dictate the lifetime relationship that you will have with them.

When my father cheated on my mother, my mother was fooled into not telling us the whole truth.This made my mom look to us like the crazy lady the was destroying the family. I was under 10 years old when I finally learned the whole truth. When I did, I felt very betrayed by my mother for keeping such a secret and for the many lies by omission that went with it.

Your WW has lost her moral compass. Stop letting her lead the way in determining what is the right thing to do for you and the family. Her actions prove that she is not acting in the best interest of anyone but herself. Tell the children the whole truth. Do not be angry or mean and do not let your wife bully you out of doing this.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Erebus said:


> She really has no clue how f'd up she is, and the carnage.


Thats what makes her so dangerous and more the reason to run.

Its one thing to admit your phucked up and know your screwing up and don't know why....typical BS from a wayward.

But when a wayward that is clueless (also typical wayward bullcrap) its best to stay out of the way and avoid anymore carnage.

Sometimes its the consequence of lossing the waywards family that will make a change..but by then its all to late and the only thing the wayward is left with is regret.

Sometime you just can't fix stupid!


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Erebus said:


> Remains- idk what they talked about. My WW told me she said this. My daughter does know about the first one tho, and I suspect the second. She is smart. I doubt she knows all tho. When telling kids about a divorce, do you tell them reasons? Oh Brooklyn, I ain't having a pity party. That song is about addiction.
> I am making an appt with one of the best family lawyers in Maine. And we'll go from there. Thanks for your support! I needed to hear some straight talk. Don't have many people. She really has no clue how f'd up she is, and the carnage.


Go see the top 5 divorce lawyers in your area. Most are free, some may cost you. Once they give you a consultation she can't use them, forces her go further away or down the skill ladder. 

Just tell your kids your are filing for divorce because Mommy has been leading a double life with other men and it is not the type of marriage you had both agreed to when you both married. She opened this can of worms denigrating you to your daughter. So take your teens aside without her present and tell them you are filing for divorce. Do it when she gets served. If you tell the straight truth consistently no one will ever blame you. Certainly not your own children who years and years from now when they see the big picture will completely understand. She has no one to blame but herself.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Erebus said:


> Remains- idk what they talked about. My WW told me she said this.


Cheaters LIE. Until you hear it from your daughter, in the proper context, do not believe that this is the whole story. For all you know, your daughter confronted her about the newest affair and said "just leave him."


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Erebus said:


> Yeah, I am coming around to this realization. Thanks folks. I never knew this stuff was so common. What's that song from U2, Bad, " I'm wide awake, I'm not sleeping...oh no..."
> Sorry you all are here too.


Great song. Especially the Wide awake in America version

Anyway here are your laws.

Adultery & Divorce in Maine | LegalZoom: Legal Info


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you tell your daughter your wife wanted to move to Sweden knowing she could not take her kids?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Chaparral said:


> Did you tell your daughter your wife wanted to move to Sweden knowing she could not take her kids?


I would tell my wife's mom that her daughter wanted to move to Sweden knowing she could never see her *grandkids*....

I would expose this bull crap to anyone that would listen....especially my old lady parents.

I would email the OM parents and let them know what kind of baby food they will need to buy and the old ladies car info so they can get her insured.

my point here is do what you can to inform others that the reality is day to day bills that involve kids, baggage, ex husbands, health care, and a pure hatred that will phuck OM.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Time to have a heart to heart with your daughter. Ask her if what her mum says is true and in the correct context...though ensure she feels safe in telling you the truth. She will not want to hurt you if confronted I imagine. Explain to her the basics of the reality, tell her you never got married with the intention of an open relationship and are now intending to divorce the woman you thought loved you. I hope you do. You have to stand for your morals even if only to show your children there are consequences to this type of behaviour. Do what Try said.

And...did I read correct? She accuses you of alcoholism, or just has a HUGE problem with you drinking, and yet she goes out and gets hammered? Or just a little drunk? Please tell me I have misread! Please tell me you DO NOT accept this from her.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Yeah, she gets drunk more than a little bit. It was funny, the four of us were going up in an elevator last Saturday and they both called her an alcoholic, then backed off to, well you do drink a lot. And here I am not drinking, trying hard, and she texts me to bring the rest of the wine up to her sisters room. I don't think she's an alkie, but booze does fuel her outward focus.
I am thinking through my exposing plan. I think she is afraid to death of that. Anyway, I am selling guitars and stuff on eBay to raise money for myself, and figuring out how to fatten my "out" account.
Tho ill miss the guitars. But figure I can get another down the road. But I am reluctant to part with my Taylor!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Erebus said:


> Remains- idk what they talked about. My WW told me she said this. My daughter does know about the first one tho, and I suspect the second. She is smart. I doubt she knows all tho.


Maybe not, but I bet she knows more than you. She probably knows about OM#3 and OM#5. Neither one of you know about OM#4.



Erebus said:


> When telling kids about a divorce, do you tell them reasons? Oh Brooklyn, I ain't having a pity party. That song is about addiction.


How old are the kids?




Erebus said:


> Yeah, she gets drunk more than a little bit. It was funny, the four of us were going up in an elevator last Saturday and they both called her an alcoholic, then backed off to, well you do drink a lot. And here I am not drinking, trying hard, and she texts me to bring the rest of the wine up to her sisters room. I don't think she's an alkie, but booze does fuel her outward focus.


As you know, women become alcoholics on a lot less booze than men. You may not be able to see the forest for the trees.



Erebus said:


> I am thinking through my exposing plan. I think she is afraid to death of that.


Too late for her to worry about that. Have you checked her phone for her souvenir sex vids from the Sweden trip? She'll be wanting to relive those "Alpha Moments."



Erebus said:


> Anyway, I am selling guitars and stuff on eBay to raise money for myself, and figuring out how to fatten my "out" account.
> Tho ill miss the guitars. But figure I can get another down the road. But I am reluctant to part with my Taylor!


I once had to sell off a number of guitars and amps. They became so valuable that I was not able to replace them with identical pieces. What I'm saying is, "Don't sell the '58 Les Paul or the Marshall Plexi!"


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Erebus said:


> Yeah, she gets drunk more than a little bit. It was funny, the four of us were going up in an elevator last Saturday and they both called her an alcoholic, then backed off to, well you do drink a lot. And here I am not drinking, trying hard, and she texts me to bring the rest of the wine up to her sisters room. I don't think she's an alkie, but booze does fuel her outward focus.
> I am thinking through my exposing plan. I think she is afraid to death of that. Anyway, I am selling guitars and stuff on eBay to raise money for myself, and figuring out how to fatten my "out" account.
> Tho ill miss the guitars. But figure I can get another down the road. *But I am reluctant to part with my Taylor!*


Never been a fan of Taylors. Prefer Martin flat tops and 60's Guild carved arch tops. But to each his own.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

careful growing to much liquid cash now if she has access to it... she might need to buy swiss boy toy some stiff drinks...

File for D
Get checked for STDs
Talk to your kids, they are old enough to know the truth


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

You need to start counseling for your kids ASAP. Your wife is a very bad influence and she is already poisoning them. Coming from a broken home myself, I know how much this sucks. You need to address this problem right now. Your kids are at danger of being scarred for life.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ladies and Gentlemen, Erebus has left the building. Souvenirs are on sale in the lobby.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

No, Mach, I am here thinking things through. Have relatives visiting too. Have an appt with an attorney soon. I am processing everything and appreciate greatly everyone's support and posts.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Who is paying for the research work, would they be ok with the funds being used to pay for her hooking up with the OM and partying?

Give the research grant manager a call a bring her party to a swift end.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

Excellent advice Shaggy.


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## Erebus (Aug 12, 2013)

So,still processing. Getting ready for my lawyer meeting. There is a $250 consultation fee, and if we go ahead he wants a 7K deposit. He has a lot of family lawyer credentials, but is that in line with other lawyer fees. Also, before I discovered the extent of this I got her wedding ring fixed. She says she doesn't want it. Can I sell that for some of the lawyer fee or is that illegal?
Read that letter again. Man, the amount of her friends and family who know about this is more than I thought. I have to resist cloning her hard drive in the middle of the night. They laugh at me for crying. Which I don't do anymore. And I'll have to give my dogs away I guess, which is painful. Hard to find a place to rent that takes dogs. Maybe my brother would take one. Sorry to ramble...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why don't you expose her at work?

If she is mentoring him, this is highly unethical


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Erebus said:


> I got her wedding ring fixed. She says she doesn't want it. Can I sell that for some of the lawyer fee or is that illegal?


It's not illegal but if the wedding ring is worth some bucks and she has a good attorney they'll file a claim against it's value asking for half of it at settlement. 

That's how it works with anything you jointly own, you both have a right to half unless you can make a claim that it's separate marital property. 

Actually as I write this I'm thinking she might be able to make the claim that the ring was entirely hers, since it's a personal item. So you can sell it and use the money for your attorney but you might have to give her a credit for it's entire value when you eventually divide up all the assets.

I say go ahead and sell it and worry about the rest of it later.


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