# So what is cheating then?



## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Cheating is whatever you want it to be. It's undefined. Adultery, on the other hand, is very defined. Yet even that definition has been greatly modified since the mid-19th century (rise of the matriarchy).


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

how would you define cheating?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

to me it is crossing boundaries that are either implied or explicitly defined


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

lisabella said:


> To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


If this is the case then don't get married because you'll be very disappointed. We're humans - not robots.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> If this is the case then don't get married because you'll be very disappointed. We're humans - not robots.


:iagree:

I'd be interested to know how you would expect him to avoid all eye contact. 

Also, I agree with AR. Cheating occurs when YOUR boundaries are crossed. If you don't want eye contact, then that would be cheating. That isn't cheating in my marriage. But then, each is different.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

To me, cheating is something you do that you would not want your spouse to do. (As it's usually done in secrecy).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

lisabella said:


> To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


i can understand the eye contact thing.
because you CAN eye f**k someone.
If you are lustfully looking at another woman and in your mind are thinking man i jsut wanna tap that or whatever have you.
yea i could see it as cheating.
but we cant read the minds!!!!! which i am sure thats better than knowing whats on it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

lisabella said:


> how would you define cheating?


Adultery is the deal breaker for me. I rid myself of an XLTGF, or maybe she got rid of me, over her personality change into a slvt. Not technically adultery, but a deal's a deal. OTOH, my W likes to fly red flags every few years. This was before I knew they were red flags, but they bugged me. I never caught her doing anything, so we're still married.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Are you asking, "what behavior should I draw the line at?" or "what behavior is unacceptable?" I believe every person needs to define their own values for themselves. If you're asking people to help you define yourself, then you'll be a 2nd class version of others instead of a 1st class version of yourself. Take responsibility, be your own person.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

GetTough said:


> Are you asking, "what behavior should I draw the line at?" or "what behavior is unacceptable?" I believe every person needs to define their own values for themselves. _*If you're asking people to help you define yourself, then you'll be a 2nd class version of others instead of a 1st class version of yourself*_. Take responsibility, be your own person.




that makes sense, its almost like manipulation.

she is just curious though!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

for me cheating is if you so something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was in the room.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I define infidelity as giving anything less than 100% of your affection and loyalty to your spouse. 

When you willingly made your marriage vows, you promised to spend a lifetime learning how to love your spouse and you promised to "forsake all others"--so to me if you give ANY amount of your affection or loyalty to anyone or anything other than your spouse, then it is unfaithfulness.


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> If this is the case then don't get married because you'll be very disappointed. We're humans - not robots.


I understand what you mean, I should have added sexual eye communication. What do you think of this then?


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> i can understand the eye contact thing.
> because you CAN eye f**k someone.
> If you are lustfully looking at another woman and in your mind are thinking man i jsut wanna tap that or whatever have you.
> yea i could see it as cheating.
> but we cant read the minds!!!!! which i am sure thats better than knowing whats on it.


that's exactly what i meant!!! thanks for the explanation xx


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Adultery is the deal breaker for me. I rid myself of an XLTGF, or maybe she got rid of me, over her personality change into a slvt. Not technically adultery, but a deal's a deal. OTOH, my W likes to fly red flags every few years. This was before I knew they were red flags, but they bugged me. I never caught her doing anything, so we're still married.



sorry too many abbr. like XLTGF etc..where can I look them up?


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## lisabella (Aug 17, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I define infidelity as giving anything less than 100% of your affection and loyalty to your spouse.
> 
> When you willingly made your marriage vows, you promised to spend a lifetime learning how to love your spouse and you promised to "forsake all others"--so to me if you give ANY amount of your affection or loyalty to anyone or anything other than your spouse, then it is unfaithfulness.


Totally agree!:smthumbup:


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

If you hold to certain to religious views you would be right. We all have multiple affairs everyday then imo don't take life so seriously.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't know if I can agree that looking at another person and having sexual thought pop into your mind is cheating...

I will call it lusting. But every now and then we always see someone who appeals to us in a primal [ sexual ] level,and we relish that fleeting moment. We may never see that person again.
How can that be cheating?
Cheating IMO , is actively seeking out other people outside of your relationship , for intimacy and/ or sexual fulfilment.

It is a deliberate act.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

lisabella said:


> sorry too many abbr. like XLTGF etc..where can I look them up?


ex-long term girlfriend. In this case, a 3.5 year relationship


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

lisabella said:


> sorry too many abbr. like XLTGF etc..where can I look them up?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't know if I can agree that looking at another person and having sexual thought pop into your mind is cheating...
> 
> I will call it lusting. But every now and then we always see someone who appeals to us in a primal [ sexual ] level,and we relish that fleeting moment. We may never see that person again.
> How can that be cheating?
> ...


:iagree:

THIS.

The eye-f#cking lustful looks etc. don't work as a definition of cheating for me. Getting married or committing to a LTR doesn't all of a sudden render everyone else unattractive and attraction is in large, part of our biology. Even finding someone desirable and thinking of sex for a fleeting moment isn't cheating and unless you do it on purpose/obsessively, it's not even really betrayal. I think calling an unexpected lustful look/thought cheating is too much like thought crime.

Unless you put horse blinders on and stare at the ground when you walk and drive, you can't control/prevent finding someone attractive or even having a lustful idea as a result of that attraction. However, you can absolutely control your behavior and what you do about it. When you start to change your behavior in boundary-crossing ways because of that attraction then that's when it becomes dangerous and depending on what you do, cheating.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh Man!! Does this mean that I can't bore-sight the passing Ladies? Crap!!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Don't think of a vagina. Don't think of a vagina.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

lisabella said:


> To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


I think this can be taken tooo far. While too much eye contact is inappropriate I wouldn't consider it cheating. I mean if I see a pretty woman and she looks at me and smiles. I smile back and keep on walking. That's a boost to my ego but, I am not stopping to get her number. 
Now if I know a woman other than my wife and we have an eye code, then that's pretty much a sign you spend way too much time with her and are in an EA. 
Having too much eye contact at a bar is inappropriate but, again that's not walking across the bar and getting her number. I think that the line is crossed once you start hiding the person from your spouse. 
If I go over and get a girls number one time just to see if I still got it. Then I toss the number in the trash go home to my wife and never communicate with the random woman ever again. It isn't that bad. 

However if it becomes a pattern of behavior, then there is an issue. I don't think individual one time encounters are cheating unless, there is an intention of pursuing a future relationship or a ONS. I am an outgoing person and tend to talk to women the same way as men. My wife points out that other women may see my behavior as flirting. I always keep my distance I don't get involved in their day to day affairs or see them on a daily basis. I don't contact them outside of work. 
Set your boundaries and stick to them. You need to talk to your wife and if she says "I don't like it." That means you have crossed a line with her. It doesn't matter which two ways you see it she is your wife. Repect her wishes and boundaries and she will be more likely to do the same.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

Guys spend a lot of time thinking, "I'd just like to tap that."

That is Biology, and uncontrollable. We are hardwired to look.

Looking is not the same thing as pursuing.


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## Socke (Aug 18, 2012)

Posse said:


> Guys spend a lot of time thinking, "I'd just like to tap that."
> 
> That is Biology, and uncontrollable. We are hardwired to look.
> 
> Looking is not the same thing as pursuing.


:iagree:
Looking and thinking is not cheating. Pursuing, in any way, is cheating, including the example above where the phone number was requested -- even if you only did it to see 'if you still got it' and promptly threw it away -- that still crossses a line for me because of the pursuit. Married men don't ask random women in a bar for their phone number, period.


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## Biscuits (Aug 2, 2012)

lisabella said:


> To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


Thats unrealistic. You cant expect a dude, or woman for that matter, to go through the rest of like not ADMIRING beautiful things. It human nature


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Socke said:


> :iagree:
> Looking and thinking is not cheating. Pursuing, in any way, is cheating, including the example above where the phone number was requested -- even if you only did it to see 'if you still got it' and promptly threw it away -- that still crossses a line for me because of the pursuit. Married men don't ask random women in a bar for their phone number, period.


What is wrong with letting someone flirt with you or flirting with them? If you know that nothing physical will actually happen then you are as you said, just seeing if you still got it. 
I am always wondering if women are checking me out or not, hoping that I have the ability to catch the eye of some. Maybe if I am looking good enough that day, they will have some dirty thoughts run through their head about me. I sure as hell with have the thoughts about them if they are looking good.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

If I'm walking down the street and some really attractive peanut smuggler is walking toward me then my eyes will run up her body. I can't help it it's a biological thing, your body is checking her out to see if she is a suitable match. But as an adult married male I realise what I am doing and hopefully stop the involuntary leering before it becomes offensive.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

I can't agree with looking and appreciating someone's good looks as a form of adultery. If I pass someone on the street that I think is cute, I will look. I won't stare at him or ogle him. I have more self-respect for myself and my marriage than that. 

We pass, and that is the last time that I would think of him. He won't consume my thoughts. I won't follow him to his work. (that's stalking ) We wouldn't even say two words.

I'm a hotblooded woman, after all.


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## theone79 (Nov 15, 2011)

I was going to get in on this discussion, but it looks like nobody in here is making any sense. Bottom line: Cheating is giving time to another person behind your significant other's back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

cheating: knowingly and deceptively crossing a relationship boundary.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree looking is ok. Oggling or gawking not ok. And commenting sexually about her in or out of my presence NOT ok. 

And giving yourself emotionally, mentally or physically to a point that you would not do in front of your spouse= cheating. I.E lunch with a female coworker and deliberately not telling your wife b/c she'd be upset-cheating. Flirting with the same person repeatedly and excessively and looking forward to interaction with that person-cheating. 30,40 or 50 emails a day to one person- infidelity. Intentionally seeking outside emotional attention and ego stroking against your spouses wishes-cheating. And of course inappropriate physical contact - cheating.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

theone79 said:


> I was going to get in on this discussion, but it looks like nobody in here is making any sense. Bottom line: Cheating is giving time to another person behind your significant other's back


Then by your definition, what I did wasn't cheating. (Yay me)

My W knew that my OW and I were spending evenings having dinner together, drinks with other co-workers etc. I am trying to remember a single situation where I lied to my W about what I was doing with my OW (and can't). 

In my mind, we were just friends, until the emotions started building and that's when I started getting confused, stopped sleeping and got a little bit self destructive, but I was in complete denial about those too... until one day the air popped and I sat there stunned looking at her. But even then, I always told my W where I was going and what I was doing with my OW. 

So did that openness, and the fact that she didn't object, mean that I didn't cheat on her?

As an aside, I have spent many hours with women outside of my marriage and they truly were just good friends; nothing emotional/sexual behind it (though I won't deny being physically attracted to some of them); I have never needed boundaries.

From my experience, cheating is when you try to fill the emotional or physical holes in your life with someone other than your 'spouse' without their direct support (not to be confused with 'consent').


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

lisabella said:


> To me even the eye contact communication is cheating. Looking forward to your views.


How is this helpful? You've just labeled 92% of the population as cheaters. This definition would make makes Calvinist New England a latter-day Sodom.

Putting totally unrealistic boundaries around this stuff just feeds into wayward logic. "Well, I had already made eye contact with the woman, so why not just move on to all-out bigamy, right?"


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

Labcoat said:


> How is this helpful? You've just labeled 92% of the population as cheaters. This definition would make makes Calvinist New England a latter-day Sodom.
> 
> Putting totally unrealistic boundaries around this stuff just feeds into wayward logic. "Well, I had already made eye contact with the woman, so why not just move on to all-out bigamy, right?"


You need more counselling.

[edit]I agree with you on the unrealistic boundaries bit. And I recognize that you're still in pain but please try to avoid throwing stones. My above comment was posted before I saw your post count, my apologies. You're probably still in the thick of the anger, resentment and hurt. If you haven't gone for counseling yet, I suggest you do; it will help.[/edit]


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## theone79 (Nov 15, 2011)

Now of course if you take it any further than that, then you already that it crosses into cheating. Right now it is innocent having drinks and your wife is aware of it


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

I think the confusion arises because cheating is commonly defined by the act, but we all know that what is more important is the intent.


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