# how do you let it go?



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

my H had i guess what you would call an emotional affair. whatever it was, it made me completely doubt our 12 year marriage with 4 children. basically, i want to move on & use this as a catalyst to better our marriage (& so does he) but don't know how. i have days where i'm fine, but then days where the anger & hurt just cloud my thoughts! any advice from those who have worked things out in this situation? it has been 2+ months now. what should i ask of him?  help! thanks!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes, I've been in your situation (just over a year ago) and we have worked things out. For me, time has been a great healer. Time, coupled with him being open with me and earning back my trust. 

I did do an assessment of our marriage and where things were at the time and as expected, there were several things that needed work (from both of us) in order to strengthen our marriage. As crazy as life with kids and both of us working full-time can be, we made the choice to put our marriage first and one of the first things we did was start having a date night once a week. We both found that we really do enjoy spending time together and have fun when we are out. It also gives us uninterrupted time to talk and listen to each other. I can look back at our marriage at that time and honestly forgive him for the EA because I played a big role in where our marriage was at. Not that I'm saying it was OK within our marriage, but a mistake I am able to forgive.

I still have my days where I have these bad thoughts and insecurities, but they are few and far between now. I also did a lot to start taking care of myself (vs running myself ragged with work and kids) and the family has so far survived my 'me time' and I'm a better wife and mother for it. 

Don't expect to feel great over night. It can take time. Is your husband patient/understanding or do you feel you need to bottle up your feelings? I know it's the last thing he probably wants to discuss, but the more I was able to work through my concerns by talking to him, the faster the healing was & I made sure to tell him that I understood these conversations were difficult for him and it certainly wasn't to punish him or back him into a corner, but so that I could have faith that I understood what the problems were and that we were addressing them.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

bad thoughts and insecurities...we'll see a lot of that 'round these parts...my i humbly suggest the book "ten days to self esteem" by burns. a valuable tool i learned is to "put a lie" to your bad thought and it'll get you through the rough spots.

the other theme i see a lot of is "time." let me be witness to the notion that time is a great healer. if i have one great blessing through my trials & tribulations, it's the patience i've gained from contact with my friends on this board. swedish, draconis, amplexor, justean (this is why you should write down your credits when accepting the oscar. you'll forget someone!) anyway, the point is we won't get weighed down with a lot of psychological gobbledy-****, but there's plenty of real world support here. my marriage being tenuously held together rather than me blowing it up (figuratively) is witness to that.

bad thoughts & insecurities cured by good ol' fashioned real world support plus the great healer "time," if you're willing to accept 'em all, we'll all meet on the other side of this emotional wall in a much happier state of mind.

ps-bluebutterfly, 12 years is way too long to give up on. please seek out whatever assistance is necessary. the alternative is much to easy in this country.


----------



## robin (Aug 24, 2008)

I think it is wonderful that he wants to work on the marriage. I would suggest talking with a counselor together and separately. Be patient. It takes time to heal. Recovery is not a quick process. In addition he has to prove that he can be trusted. Open and effective communication is the best. The following are 5 things that helped my marriage and may help you too:

1. We compete to make each other happy. This means we do everything we can to fulfill the other person's needs even if it means scarificing our own. I find when we ignore the wants and needs of each other is when we get into fights. 

2. Verbally and physically be affectionate with each other. Everyday we say or do something that shows the other person how much we love them. This helps keep happy spirits in our home and marriage.

3. We read books and attend workshops were we learn new ways to keep that hotness going. We learned incorporating new ideas keeps the marriage alive and happy.

4. Taking a break from one another when we are not happy with what the other person has done or said. We learned from trial and error that talking to each other while angry feelings are rising is not the best time to talk. 

5. Doing something fun with each other. There was a time we found ourselves drifting apart. We put other things first. We noticed by putting other things first we were taking each other for granted. Now we spend once a week doing something fun. 

Hope this helps.

Robin
Life's Little How To Book


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

swedish,

thanks for the reply! i sure hope time can help heal me but it's been 2 1/2 months & i don't think i feel much better about it except for not having that "fight or flight" feeling anymore. i just hope it's not too much time because i feel like i am losing it some days with 4 kids, our own business, financial stress, etc.

anyway, we both say we want to put our marriage first but i'm not sure he really knows what to do in order to do that. he's a very big talker when it comes to our marriage but usually does not show much in the action department. i know our marriage was certainly not perfect before this all happened but i never expected this. anyone that knows us would be shocked!

the date night thing is great! actually, a few years ago, before we had our 4th child, we did a date night every other weekend. it was great! we did not do anything fantastic. it was just a matter of being together & being us! now that our baby is 1 year old, we have to get back to that. thanks for that suggestion! it's amazing how easily you drift apart & forget things when life gets in the way. i'm going to start with this friday!

i sure could use the "me" time too! i guess i just don't know what to do! any ideas? we live in a very rural area so it's hard to come up with ideas (i know, excuses, excuses!). our house is already a mess so i'm not too worried about the family being without me for a bit of time. i just need to actually make a plan & stick to it!

the worst part is probably the insecurity i feel now. i was always totally secure about myself & this made my world come crashing down! i'm devastated. when i think of the whole picture, i do see us in a better place in the future but i just wish i could get these thoughts out of my head. they just pop in there for no apparent reason & ruin my whole outlook.

yes, my husband is understanding & very apologetic. he says we can talk any time about anything. so, when i feel that anxious feeling, he's great about listening to me & letting me get mad. he does not get mad back, he just listens. i think he worries that he screwed up our lives & me in a way that he can never take back. the problem for me is that i want to be proactive & work on things & make big changes. i guess i don't know how to. i know i need to take one step at a time but it's just hard when you are so out of a comfort zone! thanks for all of your advice. it is greatly appreciated! i will keep you posted!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I am so glad to hear he is being understanding of your feelings and willing to listen when you need to talk. That was huge for me because I was able to then say to myself we both love each other and want the same thing--a strong marriage. In the first several months, my moods and mind were all over the place, but now I feel more happy and at peace than I have ever been, so hang in there!

As for 'me' time, I just started doing things I like...joined the gym (that we do together cuz he's always worked out) got my hair done...bought some new clothes...manicures/pedicures...things that help in the self-confidence building  Dinner out w/my high school friends, decorating our home & also planning some fun outings together (comedy club, sporting events, local fests, etc.) Nothing over the top because really what makes me most happy is being a wife and mom, I just needed to regain a little bit of myself in the process.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

yes, he is understanding but i sometimes fear that i am beating the whole thing to death. he doesn't give me that impression but i wonder if i just need to decide that it's ok to move on & let go. i guess it's difficult to figure out when i'm ready to do that.

thanks for the "me" time ideas too. i do go once a month with my highschool girlfriends to dinner or we just eat at one of our houses. i live for those nights! i would love to put time into decorating our home but it seems it's always a struggle just to get it into "decorating" shape. you can't decorate a mess. i don't mean to make it sound like we're slobs but we certainly aren't very organized!

i am also most happy being a wife & mom too! i always figured the rest kind of falls in place. that's why this has hurt me to the core! maybe finding myself would be the best thing for me & him!

thanks so much!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> yes, he is understanding but i sometimes fear that i am beating the whole thing to death. he doesn't give me that impression but i wonder if i just need to decide that it's ok to move on & let go. i guess it's difficult to figure out when i'm ready to do that.


I could have written that...in fact, I'm pretty sure I did already somewhere in this forum 

For me, when the thoughts went from daily to a few times a week or less, that's when I decided I am just going to stop asking questions and start living for what we have now. I give my husband credit for being patient and understanding allowing me to heal at my own pace and at some point it just made more sense to me to let it go where I could tell myself "just get over it". I don't know when that time will come for you but for me it was about 6 months after the EA.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

voivod,

thanks for the words of encouragement! i do need to figure a way to "put a lie" to my to my bad thoughts! hope i can figure that one out! also, you are so right about how great this message board is! it took me some courage to actually write some of my own personal story (even posted it once & removed the post). i am not at all sorry i did because what happened between my husband & i is not known to any of my family. they know things are strained but do not know the extent of what has happened.  they just think it's the usual! this makes everyday life very hard for me because i am usually like an open book. i am a "what you see is what you get" kind of person. i wear my heart on my sleeve & it is usually very obvious if i'm not myself. i'm sick of not being me! i guess maybe it's time to stop being the victim & take a proactive role!

ps-12 years & a family with 4 kids is certainly way too much to just throw it away. i owe to myself, him & the kids to do some serious soul searching before i would ever do that! divorce is not on my mind at all at this point. i actually think that would be harder! we just have too much together! not to mention the fact that i love him to death & he can still make me get those butterflies! (he also makes me crazy too!) most importantly, i know my husband has never stopped loving me. we just have some major overhauling to do. question is - how do i get him to see what it is that he needs to do? he's a talker but not super vocal about "feelings". i guess that's sorta how we ended up here in the first place.

thanks again for your reply! any further advice is greatly appreciated!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

robin,

i love your five suggestions! #1 may actually work for my husband. he is super competitive! maybe we can turn our marriage into a sport!? #2 we are verbally & physically affectionate already but i think our problem is that we tend to let too much negativity take over at times! #3 we could use some attention & focus on keeping thing alive & hot. don't get me wrong, we have no problem in the intimacy area but we are always open to changing things up in order to look forward to our fun! #4 is definitely one that we both need to learn from! in particular, i could use the most attention to this. i guess i always reacted so quickly because i would never know when my husband would be home next to talk to! no more excuses! i will just have to wait for the right moment! #5 is where my husband should focus his attention! he has so many other things that take priority to not only me but to the children as well! some things are community oriented while others are just for fun. this is where a ton of my frustration comes from in our marriage. he's never home, blah, blah, blah! i keep complaining & he keeps adding more stuff - probably to avoid my complaining. neither of us end up being happy. i resent him for not being home & he resents me for not creating peace at home. it's a lose-lose situation. this has to change!

thanks so much for your reply! everyone on this forum has been just wonderful. it really & truly helps just to hear that other people have gone through similar things & have made it work!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

swedish,

i guess that's almost where i'm at with it. i guess i just wanted to see more action on my husband's part like suggesting we plan for a babysitter to go out. maybe i need to just quit moping & make things happen for myself. i guess me having certain expectations in our marriage have led to enough disappointment & hurt that i need to forget about what i want him to do & do what i need to do. thanks again. it seems my feelings have paralleled yours in so many ways & it's nice to have them validated because some days i feel so absolutely crazy & sad, almost like grieving.


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

butterfly,
put a lie to and emotional affair...your fear/insecurity might be "he wants to be there, not here," right? put a lie to that by telling yourself "he IS here, not there" and that should help you over the hump...by the way, you say:

>>>it's been 2 1/2 months & i don't think i feel much better about it<<<

2 1/2 months is not much time at all...be prepared to allow much more time to pass. healing does take time...

God will bless you with patience, my prayers are with you...good luck.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> swedish,
> 
> i guess that's almost where i'm at with it. i guess i just wanted to see more action on my husband's part like suggesting we plan for a babysitter to go out. maybe i need to just quit moping & make things happen for myself. i guess me having certain expectations in our marriage have led to enough disappointment & hurt that i need to forget about what i want him to do & do what i need to do. thanks again. it seems my feelings have paralleled yours in so many ways & it's nice to have them validated because some days i feel so absolutely crazy & sad, almost like grieving.


Here's my thought...You've said your husband has been understanding, wants to work on your marriage to make it stronger so even if he hasn't been one to take active steps in the past, now would be the perfect time to talk about that...I really think the last thing you should do is forget about what you want...tell him what you want...he doesn't want you feeling bad and for you to push down those feelings isn't the right way to go about it...you deserve everything you want in your marriage, but it does take work, patience and communication to get there...what about saying 'one thing that would make me feel like you are putting our marriage first would be for you to plan some dates for us...not all the time but maybe we could take turns each week?' You don't have to come off as a complainer...there is nothing wrong with telling him what you need to feel happy within your marriage...it will make it stronger!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

voivod,

trust me, i am trying with all of my might to put a lie to my thoughts. i really don't even think he likes himselft very much right now. that's not making things any easier! it's honestly very weird! we do have a good relationship which is why i have such a hard time understanding all of it. does there come a time when you quit wondering why & just decide to move on? i must admit that this week has been much better since we had another heart to heart on sunday. also, we may have had a breakthrough last night! he actually talked about his feelings about himselft & how he feels about his life. this isn't something he usually does so i think it's a step in the right direction! i think he usually fills his life up with a bunch of stuff to cover up problems/issues he needs to deal with. 

as far as the time, i guess i'm just being hard on myself because i would love to just close this chapter of my life & never look back, but i realize it's not that easy.

thanks you so much praying for patience for me! God knows i truly need more than ever!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

swedish,

i did set up a date for this weekend & planned for a babysitter. i have in the past said i need him to plan more, etc. but i suppose i am so tired of disappointment with him that i feel i would just be setting myself up. that's why i figured i'd just take action on my own. you see, in the past, he was always disappointing me by not showing up to do things on time, staying somewhere much longer than he thought he'd be, etc. while i sat at home on the weekends by myself. i will not do that or go through that ever again. i was super lonely!!! i told him the other day that we were going on a date this weekend & gave him the details. i said i was making him go at least every other weekend. that's what we used to do (for about a year) before our last child who is now 1 year.

you have to understand that my husband says he wants to work on the marriage & i truly believe that he wants things to be better than before. i just don't see so far any actions, other than a card i got from him. am i expecting too much? he is a super busy guy involved in so many different things from coaching, community stuff, extracuricular activities, etc. & i know that hunting season is almost here. he is an avid hunter. i think he just doesn't want to disappoint me by saying he will do this or that & if something doesn't work out, he's afraid he would diappoint me once again. i just wish he would be more vocal about what he is thinking. we did have a great talk last night though just about him & how he feels about himself. i just listened & tried to be nonjudgemental.

all in all, i think we are both having to retrain ourselves on how we react to one another. we are finding that neither of us realize how short we always are & how quick we are to jump all over the other for little things. i suppose that's what years of stress does! right now, we are certainly a work in progress & i'm moving towards forgiveness. i haven't told him that i forgive him yet. i'm just not quite ready!

thanks for all of your advice!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

just a small update. i have decided to let this go!!! i feel very scared yet liberated at the same time. i am ready to move on to a new chapter in my life. i just can't keep wearing myself out mentally. that is just not working. we can still work on our marriage but without this huge shadow over it, i think it will be much easier! i am actually thinking of forgiveness!? i can't live with so much turmoil so i must move forward with a positive outlook for our family's sake as well as mine. what will be will be. i may be a changed woman now but i hope i am stronger for it! thanks for so much for all of the advice & support! i have used it all in one way or another! i couldn't have done it without all of your help! i will keep you posted on our progress! please send some strength my way!:biggrinangelA:

ps-i did put a lie to my negative thoughts! it does help! i am also going to do more things for myself from now on!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for the update and I'm glad you plan to keep us posted. I still have a set-back every once in a while...maybe a scene in a movie that triggers those thoughts, etc. so don't beat yourself up when that happens, it's part of the healing. But I think it's great that you are ready in your mind to move forward. Forgiveness is the single thing that gave me the most peace. I think it did more for me than the person I was forgiving (especially TOW because I have never spoken to her)

My best to you and your family


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

swedish,

thanks so much! i know i will have those thoughts but it does feel great to know that i refuse to let them rule my day! i was just getting sick of harboring such negative emotion all of the time. maybe i will feel differently tomorrow, next week or next month but today i feel good. i hope it will help to make me more productive! i've really been having a hard time focusing on anything else! i'll let you know how things are going!


----------



## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

bbf0808-
you ask:

>>>does there come a time when you quit wondering why & just decide to move on?<<<

oh, i'm sure, that's where the time thing comes in. you'll find it less important to dwell on and more important to move yourself to the next square in the game of life. 

and:

>>>i haven't told him that i forgive him yet. i'm just not quite ready!<<<

and the truth is, maybe you'll never be ready. or maybe that day will come during an emotional moment during one of your dates, when all the planets align.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

voivod,

thanks! i hope all of the planets align sooner rather than later but i won't hold my breath. i guess i've just decided that i am doing all i can on my end to make our relationship better and stronger. i can't control what he does! i figure - whatever happens, happens! i'm mentally exhausted, which i suppose is good and bad at the same time. either way, i am free for now from this all-sonsuming train of thought i was in! yeah! i'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

well, i know i said i am letting this go, but i am having such a horrible day!!! until yesterday, i haven't cried for about a week. now i feel all a mess again. i can't focus on anything. why can't i just move on? what do i do? i feel like i am going to ruin things if i stay hung up on this forever but i'm finding it very hard to do! i suppose i'm feeling like everything is back to normal but i don't want to go "back." i want to move forward. anytime i say this to my husband, he just thinks things are fine & i worry too much. are some people just not meant to be? what does it take to get him to realize how serious i am about how i feel? i feel so disheartened today. help!!!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Deciding to let go is a big step, but certainly not a switch you can just turn off. I still have bad days and it's been over a year. What is changing is the frequency...You've gone a week and I'm sure in the beginning it was probably daily so look at it from the angle of forward progress. What you are feeling is totally normal and a necessary part of healing. Your husband has said he would be patient and he probably also notices you are doing better so try not to let that worry you.

As far as your husband's reaction, you are both coming from totally different places in this. Think about it, he can easily say don't worry everything will be fine, because he's inside his own head probably thinking...what a dumb-ass i was, won't ever do that again. While you are on the outside thinking if we don't change this or that or do this he might be tempted again. 

It's not a sign that you weren't meant to be, it's just very close to your heart, the hurt and betrayal & gives you a sense of insecurity about your marriage that didn't exist before. He might not be feeling desperate that changes need to happen but hopefully he will embrace the opportunity to make your marriage stronger. If he needs a nudge in this direction, nudge him...maybe, today I was feeling really overwhelmed and started to worry things were slipping back like before. If I could just have some help with x or y I wouldn't get these bad feelings.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

your post was just what i needed to hear! i feel like everytime i have a setback that i am never going to feel better. i guess i also feel very alone in my thoughts. i really don't have anyone around me to talk to. it helps to have the forum!

the thing is, as time goes by, i really feel like he ruined things for me. i feel as if i try to pretend everything will be fine someday but that i am only lying to myself. this is absolutely the hardest thing i have had to go through. i know i have to make it work for my kid's sake but i honestly know that if we did not have children, i would have reacted so differently to the whole situation. i'm not saying we wouldn't work it out, but just that i would definitely spend some time apart & let him see what life is like without me. i feel so unappreciated & taken for granted. how do i get him to see that it has to change without blowing things up & out of proportion. i can't take another war!! i need peace in my life!!! 

keeping things bottled up makes me feel like i matter even that much less now. inside i'm still the same old me though & that's why it hurts so much to just let it go.

thanks for the advice. it really does help to ground me a little. i do try to understand things from his perspective but how do i know what he is thinking if he never tells me? do you think i should just take what he has already said & keep reassuring myself? i don't want to rehash everything all the time either. i just want things to be better than before.

i know i'm rambling but so many emotion & thoughts just keep popping into my head!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

At one point I thought, what's the point of even being married now? Our vows were broken so what commitment do we really have to one another at this point? I've heard of people renewing their vows and just thought what's the point? If my kid breaks his toy because he abused it I don't run out and buy him another one.

I think I just needed to work through these thoughts in my head & finally came to the conclusion that I should focus on what I want, which was a really strong marriage and family. That enabled me to move forward with more clarity...spending more time alone with him and needing more help were both things that I needed so I set up dates, asked for help when in the past would have done it myself. 

I also heard what he needed and took action. He did acknowledge that I always planned everything in the past and he's really stepped up on that front. 

I am getting much better at vocalizing when I'm feeling hurt. If you don't want 'normal' but want 'better' talk to him and tell him what that means. Don't bury it or it will turn into resentment and come out eventually in anger...talk calmly..."I was thinking, we never do xxx but I think it would be really good for us" It doesn't have to be deep emotionally draining discussions every time...just find sweet, subtle ways to make your needs known.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

wow! you are so reading my mind! i guess i just needed to hear it from someone else. i have done plenty of burying in the past because i thought i always had to be happy (we had a child with cancer who is 6 1/2 years n.e.d (no evidence of disease) now). that has a lot to do with how we got to this place we are in. i pretended to be happy just for the sake that i felt like i had no right to complain about anything in life because our child was healthy! anyway, that's why i feel so unsettled some days becasue i don't want to go back to the ways of the past where i swept everything under the rug & built up tons & tons of resentment. i certainly played my part in this too. i'm not saying i was horrible but i did do our marriage harm. anyway, great advice once again! thanks! i will keep working on things! you really have helped me! it's nice to know that i'm not the only one who has gone through all of these crazy emotions! you have really made a difference in my outlook today!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> i have done plenty of burying in the past because i thought i always had to be happy (we had a child with cancer who is 6 1/2 years n.e.d (no evidence of disease) now). that has a lot to do with how we got to this place we are in. i pretended to be happy just for the sake that i felt like i had no right to complain about anything in life because our child was healthy!


I'm glad your child is doing well now. The best gift you can give a child is a happy mommy, so don't feel guilty or selfish by making yourself feel 'whole'. It will filter to your children in a positive way, even if it involves doing things and going places by yourself or with your husband. In the end, it all becomes part of making the most of your life, not taking it for granted & that is right in line with being grateful that your child survived the cancer.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

thanks swedish! you are completely right! i need my children to have the best side of me & that hasn't been happening for a while! i guess time spent on me equals quality time spent with them. thanks once again for the wisdom!

i kinda had a bad weekend. i got that whole panicky feeling back. it took over me & i couldn't stop it! i talked to my hubby though (not about "it", but about us & where we are going). i felt much better after that. i think it's good sometimes just to have him know that i'm still working through things & that i might have bad days here & there. he was very loving & patient (which he should be).

trying to keep a positive attitude & talk myself into finding some sort of activity for myself to do.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Been exactly there many times...funny I eventually figured out it was usually right around PMS time...but sooooo few and far between now so hang in there.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

not pms this time, but i'll be on the lookout! i actually think it was because we had a family wedding on saturday & i thought there was a remote possibility "she" could be there. way too many things were going through my mind!! well, she wasn't & the day was a lot of fun.

i'm trying to hang in there & my husband does realize how hard this is for me, which helps, but sometimes his actions just aren't enough to make me believe he's trying to make things better in our marriage. ughhh!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

just wanted to let everyone know that i wrote my husband a letter telling him that i forgive him & that i am ready to move forward with our future without this whole icky thing hanging over our shoulders. i feel so awesome! i think this is what we both need in order to give it a go. whatever will be will be. it's time to work on me a little & have fun again. i am tired on not being myself anymore! yeah! i want to go celebrate! wish me luck! thanks for all the support & i'll keep you posted. i couldn't have done it without you! :biggrinangelA:


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

That's great! I know for me, it did help me feel more at peace within myself once I forgave him. It didn't make the bad thoughts instantly go away, but it did help me to push them out of my head much quicker than before because I would force myself to think about what's ahead for us in our relationship and marriage. I'm really glad taking time for yourself and having fun are back on your priority list! With 4 kids, I'm sure it won't be easy to find the time, but YOU deserve it!


----------



## kiran23 (Sep 18, 2008)

Both of you every day talk together more time.....


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

swedish said:


> That's great! I know for me, it did help me feel more at peace within myself once I forgave him. It didn't make the bad thoughts instantly go away, but it did help me to push them out of my head much quicker than before because I would force myself to think about what's ahead for us in our relationship and marriage. I'm really glad taking time for yourself and having fun are back on your priority list! With 4 kids, I'm sure it won't be easy to find the time, but YOU deserve it!


that's exactly what i feel! i feel a sense of peace. although i can never erase what happened, i can choose to move past it & see the positive over the negative. we have 4 beautiful children & run a successful business together. in the letter i made reference to some of the fun things we used to do hoping to spark some fire. we just need to have fun - plain & simple! we need to focus on the good things in life! i am tired of sitting around & wondering "what if" all the time. i'm talking a good talk but i think sometimes that's half the battle! swedish, thanks so much for your insight! you have been such a help to me. every time i post, i feel like you know exactly how i'm feeling & exactly what to say to get me through another day! i will still keep you posted! i'm free!!!!!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

kiran23 said:


> Both of you every day talk together more time.....


such simple advice yet so completely true! that is exactly what we need to do. sometimes we just get so wrapped up in small things that we lose sight of what matters most. we need peace in our lives! thanks for the wisdom!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> although i can never erase what happened, i can choose to move past it & see the positive over the negative.


I summed that up for myself as 'I can forgive, but I'll never forget', which isn't the worst thing in the world because I certainly learned a lot in the process.


bluebutterfly0808 said:


> i'm free!!!!!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

having a rough week! still holding it together but feel sorta dead inside! am i just telling myself i'm ready to forgive & move on in the hopes that i will actually believe it or just hoping this whole thing will just go away? i honestly don't know! i have been taking everything that my husband says & does to heart. i think i'm just not happy when it comes down to it!?? am i depressed? i hate this feeling! anyone else ever feel this way after forgiving? i feel super alone right now! what do i do? honestly, i am usually a very rational, secure & confident person & i am so out of my comfort zone!


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I believe I have felt as you do now. At one point my thoughts (wanting to forgive and rebuild and have a stronger marriage) were in conflict of my feelings (of betrayal and hurt) so trying to put that behind me as much as I wanted to do so also made me feel sad and lonely, as if it's my cross to bear alone while he gets all the good stuff (having fun together, sex, dating again, etc.)

So while with forgiveness, you may have gotten to the point where you see how your marriage was and how he was tempted and be able to forgive, but the feelings of hurt and betrayal don't magically disappear. 

It goes back to giving it time...I was most definitely depressed, but I don't know whether that's the case for you. It may be that by trying to let go and move forward you are dealing with the fallout of now trying to keep this pain to yourself so it doesn't get in the way of your progress. I don't know the best solution...I still needed to talk once in a while but other times kept it to myself and as time goes on it gets easier only because it's less frequent.

I'm afraid I can't give much in the way of advice or what to do but wanted you to know you're not alone in how you feel.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

it helps just to know that i'm not the only one going up & down all the time. i just don't know how much more i can take. i think i am definitely depressed but don't get to address that because of course, i have too much to do (business, kids, house, etc.) in order to take care of myself. i think that's my biggest issue. this is the worst i have ever felt about myself but i still don't make the time to help myself. i struggle daily with these awful thoughts & honestly, i still don't understand why it happened, yet i still want to move on. i don't know if my marriage will ever work. maybe i will never be able to let it go??? now that i have told my husband i forgive him, i actually feel worse & alone. it sucks! thanks for the words of encouragement, but i have reached an all time low today.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Just because you have told him you've forgiven him (even if it included that you don't want to talk about it anymore and want to move forward) doesn't mean you can no longer ask him for support. Lean on him and let him be there for you...if you need to ask more questions about why it happened, tell him you are having a hard time again and desperately want to put this behind you but there are too many unsettled feelings you need his help to resolve.
Open up about how you are feeling within the marriage...are you still feeling overwhelmed and empty?

BTW, at some point I was thinking I was bi-polar because of the drastic mood changes. Just remember, today is not every day...it will get better again.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i did actually tell him last night & again this morning before he left for work. he has called a couple times to ask me how i am. he said we will have to talk later. i told him i hate talking to him because there are things i am afraid to say because he ends up mad. he said we just have to set some ground rules before talking (no yelling, letting the other finish what they are saying, etc.) sounds great, but i have been married to this man for 12 years & i know how these talks go - i pour my heart out & he's nice at first, then, eventually he can't take it & gets mad. he throws a fit, belittles me, throws things in the house, etc. i'm just not up for that anymore. i've done it long enough. 

i think what really upset me is that i wrote him that letter after we had a big fight about him adding yet another extracuricular activity into his life without even running it by me (he does a lot outside the house, both community & his own fun activites). he doesn't seem to remember, & never has, that i am at home with 4 kids & a business & a house. i get very lonely. funny thing is i know that he gets lonely too because he's away so much. that's why i think he was able to call this girl (using a tracphone that he bought to secretly call her). he was totally disconnected from me & our life, except when he's at home. so, after he was caught, he was extremely remorseful, embarassed, etc. he said he would do whatever to get us to a better place. he didn't want to lose me or mess up what we have as a family. i believed him & decided to work on things. we went on a date that next weekend & a few since it happened. he did get me a card once saying that things were going to get better & we would take time to reconnect. problem is, i don't see any of that in his actions.

anyway, what i was going to say is that he never responded to my letter. if he only knew what it meant to me! he had to know it was hard for me to say that i forgive him. wasn't he glad. i wasn't expecting fireworks or anything, just a simple "thanks, that means a lot to me." would have been great! when i asked him last night why he hasn't said anything about it, he said he didn't want to bring it up if i was trying to move on. i just don't know how to feel about that! my husband is not stupid but what do i need to do to quit being this emotional doormat?

it isn't that i'm worried that my husband doesn't love me or want to be with me. it's that i'm worried that maybe i don't want to be with him after all the years i have spent trying to get him to see that our marriage needed some work. we were ok, but i wanted more. i always felt as if he was never totally plugged in. it was far too easy for him to put so many other things first before our family and when i would try to talk to him, i usually gave up because of his temper. i think that now that this whole "affair" has happened, i saw it as my catalyst to improve & make things better. i think he just wants to go back to the way things were. i don't!!!! 

how do i approach this? i have already told him (several times) that i was not happy with the way things were & that i was lonely so often. how do i get him to realize how serious it is that i am feeling? do we need counselling? we are in such a financial pinch right now, i don't know how we would do it. but i realize that i am not getting through to him! i never have been able to!!! i have forgiven the affair yet can't move on because i want change. i am lost!!!!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808-

I only just read your thread. Very interesting. On a practical note, I think your husband likes to distract himself with all his extracurricular activities. I think you should ask him to pick one and drop it, so that you have more time together. Any chance of that?


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'd have to agree. His response to your letter tells me he is uncomfortable having serious, intimate discussions so avoids them and brushes things off. Maybe instead of having talks that are uncomfortable, the better approach would be as MT says, spend time having fun...and re-affirm how much fun you had and how this is what you've been hoping your marriage would be like.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

thanks for the responses!

mt - i have done that a thousand times! he has so many things - hunting (which turns into time at camp, card playing, having a beer with the guys at the local bar, staying at camp, etc.), fantasy football (3 leagues total - at least 1 mtg. to attend per week, phone calls with ff partners, 1 computer league), flag football (sunday morning, can't go to church as family now, even though i told him i felt we have drifted in our spirituality - he recently picked this activity back up because he gave up a different one), darts (recently picked this up to help someone out who was in a bind - this is once per week), coaches peewee football (5 nights practice, 1 - 2 games per week), local government president (1-3 mtgs. per month), community committee president (at least 1 time per month), season tickets to pro sports team 2 hours away (several times per month), softball player (head of the team-tournaments on weekends in the summer & every monday night), remodeling, remodeling, remodeling (office & home). see how it can get confusing! i'm sure i've left something out. i simply can't keep track of it all! we have 4 children & i'm having a hard time keeping up with anything! over the years, anytime i approach him that he has too much going on, he gets very defensive & starts throwing stuff in my face. he's a very good manipulator & fighter. i back down to avoid the confrontation (it gets ugly!). then i bottle up my feelings & build resentment! i have tried so hard to be understanding but enough is enough! this is why i am not surprised that we got in this situation! how can someone be totally plugged in when they are hardly home? don't get me wrong, he's a hard worker but he's just as good at playing!

we do go out & have a blast when we go...but, if i didn't plan to go, he would not notice that we haven't been out for a long time. he just is in a different world. he's too busy to have a problem or to think about things in depth. i don't think he's necessarily uncomfortable talking. i think he just doesn't have time to talk. he has to work in the morning so late night talking after kids are in bed is not good because he can't sleep then. he always has something more important going on. i have been trained to feel like a bother. he says i'm not, but actions speak louder than words!

anyway, it's partly my fault because i used to just let stuff go because i was sick of fighting! things were good for a while, but then we had a 4th baby & everything changed again!

basically, yes, my husband definitely likes to distract himself with any activity! he always says that i'm nagging when i ask about his activities. well, guess what, i am nagging & don't care! want to know what i do as far as my own activities? - dinner with girlfriends once a month (4 hours). pretty sad, huh?

any ideas how to get his attention to focus back on me & the family & away from all those other things? what does he get out of being so busy???? he says he gets sick of being away but then adds other stuff. what do i do? i am so drained! if we didn't have children, i would tell him to leave & go figure out what he wants! can't do that, but need something drastic to get him to see the whole picture.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

You simply need to be firm. Tell him to pick one activity to drop NOW. Then insist that he never take up new once without discussing it with you first. No nagging, just DEMAND it.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

mt - that's what i did when the ea happened. he promised he would do anything to prove to me he was fully engaged in our marriage. i told him my biggest complaint was all of his activities. he said he would keep 1 ff league. i said ok. 2 months later, he added the darts & flag football & a partnership in another ff league that he won't "usually" have to go to meetings for. why can't he understand how upset i am. i just can't take the disappointment anymore! i've said my peace. why do i have to keep saying it over & over? i feel like a broken record & a nag if i have to remind him. it's almost like he tries to push me away. i don't get it! is he just taking me for granted. am i a dumb_ _ _ ? what does this look like from the outside?

just for some background - my husband & I were "it" when we got together! we never once second guessed about whether or not we would be together. we seemed to want the same things (marriage, 4 kids, etc.), but i feel like as soon as we had kids, the disappointment came for me. instead of growing together, he kept things the way they always were for him & i stayed home with the baby. when i think back, i wasn't happy about it then but was just naive to think things would change. i guess i was optimistic. now i've just had it. i am definitely a pessimist when it comes to our relationship. i try to feel different but it usually ends up with me being disappointed & feeling alone. i am way too young to feel so alone! i want my husband! if i could just make him understand how this is affecting my whole being, maybe he would change. is this just wishful thinking? he needs a major wake-up call!!! being firm just doesn't work - words to him are like saying "blah, blah, blah." sometimes i talk & he doesn't even hear me. ----god i hate writing this...it makes me realize how desperate i actually am at this point. i guess i have to quit masking all of this stuff but i am sick of wallowing in self pity. i want action!!!!


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> what does he get out of being so busy???? he says he gets sick of being away but then adds other stuff. what do i do?


It kind of sounds like he has an anxiety problem. 

My H used to have a hundred different things going on. I wanted him to stop and I did get him to stop. But now i feel bad. He misses the things he used to do. He's depressed and out of shape. So i got my way, but he's not happy anymore.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

that's just it though. he's not happy when he's home. he complains that he has too much to do. he's grumpy & doesn't know how to relax anymore. i just want him to take a step back & see what he is missing out on at home. all of his activities not only stress him out but it's also at my expense. the kids hate when he walks out the door & i am left to explain... we need to find a happy medium somehow. he never used to do as much as he does now. i think he just runs from any kind of problem & figures that the more things he fills his schedule up, the less he has to deal with the problems!??? plus, i should be happy too! i haven't been for a while, but always would let things go because i knew he truly loved me. i still know he loves me but after the ea, i am tired of letting things go. maybe if i had put my foot down earlier & stood up for what i wanted, we wouldn't be in this position???? omg, i am so tired...


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> being firm just doesn't work - words to him are like saying "blah, blah, blah." sometimes i talk & he doesn't even hear me. ----god i hate writing this...it makes me realize how desperate i actually am at this point.


You are being just like your hubby. You are just not hearing me! I said be firm! I did not say nag him. Being firm means taking the time to make a short check-list of what you want and telling him, I want this or else. But you can't start that process until you have been firm with yourself. That way, when it comes out, it will sound powerful - and he will be left with a genuine choice.

Because you have been wishy-washy up 'till now he has been left with a far simpler choice - Help you, or just ignore you and hope your demands evaporate. And he has taken the easy option because you always accommodate him. You may complain, but it's accommodation, because in the end he always gets away with it. He had an EA, and got away with it - which is all credit to you on the forgiveness angle, but you must use that as the wake up call.

The irony is that he will be much happier with the new firm you! He needs saving from himself. That is one of the benefits of marriage. My wife sometimes tells me when to "knock it off", and upon reflection I see she was right.


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

This is probably over-simplifying what you are going through, but I thought i'd throw it out here anyway. 

Have you ever joined in with some of his activities? Have you taken real interest in his hobbies? 

I've started to take a real interest in what my H does. I'm being patient and trying to appreciate what he does do, even if its not exactly what i want, which it usually isnt. 

I'd like him to take more of an interest in what I do. But i've found with my new approach im way more relaxed. Plus, I am starting to appreciate more what he does do and be patient with getting exactly what I want.


----------



## Ladyinblue (Sep 18, 2008)

it isn't that I'm worried that my husband doesn't love me or want to be with me. it's that I'm worried that maybe i don't want to be with him after all the years i have spent trying to get him to see that our marriage needed some work. we were OK, but i wanted more. i always felt as if he was never totally plugged in. it was far too easy for him to put so many other things first before our family and when i would try to talk to him, i usually gave up because of his temper. i think that now that this whole "affair" has happened, i saw it as my catalyst to improve & make things better. i think he just wants to go back to the way things were. i don't!!!!

I can relate to you on many levels-because this is exactly what my struggle has been throughout our marriage.Here's what I've learned, and what i have began doing differently.First off, it's a losing battle, and you're going to end up being hurt or upset again as you undoubtedly keep moving farther and farther away from what YOU ideally want and closer and closer to whatever strange and unhealthy situation he's creating.f you feel like you HAVE to Stay and try to work things out, then be careful. You're going against the odds.I want you to step back from everything going on around you and in your love life right now.Get in touch with what's going on for YOU, instead of what's going on with your husband. Now answer a simple question for me-Answering honestly, how many of the things that you do, or the things that you've chosen for yourself
when it comes to men and relationships, stems from your own personal fear of being alone? Take out a pen and a piece of paper right now and write down what you just learned or identified about yourself.To compare notes now, let me share some common and unbelievably stupid things I've done to avoid my fear of being single or alone...

1.*Dated "Unavailable Men*": This one is common but counter-intuitive to understand. Lots of women who are afraid of being alone end up picking the same kind of men over and over who just don't "get it" and don't show up emotionally in relationships. Of course, if you do this, at the root of the problem is YOU. You don't believe in your ability to meet a REAL MAN, or to have a REAL relationship... so you take what comes
along (anything) and try to make the situation, and the man, into something more than it is.

2-*Accepting "Unacceptable" Behavior From Men:* If you're a woman who's afraid of being alone more than you are of being in a BAD, NEGATIVE, HURTFUL RELATIONSHIP... then guess what you're likely to end up with? That's right... a bad relationship.

3-*Acting "Needy"*: When you are afraid of being alone, or living independently, men can quickly sense this inside you... even if you don't ever say it. You send off a kind of "vibe" or "energy"when you get close to a man. Usually this looks, in part, like clingy
or needy behavior. And guess what?This is 100% Grade A Man-Repellent if you are looking to build the foundation for a lasting relationship. 

Those are just a few off the top of my head. Recognize anything here? And I promise that you'll ruin your chances if you think you can "convince" him to commit to you through shows of affection, appeals to his desires or other "gifts" to bribe him.I tried that too, and IT DIDN'T WORK! Instead, you should think about the times you've seen that he wasn't personally ready for a committed relationship.Those things are as real as the strong feelings and emotions you feel that have kept you in this relationship. Use the issues and challenges you have had together as a guide or a reminder of what has and is still keeping you two apart now.Write down what your needs are and what you feel "needs to change" in the relationship overall. Remember your value! Your self-worth can take a "Big Time" beating from betrayal.List some of your best personal qualities. And once you start doing this, I think you're going to be strangely surprised at what starts to happen for you...
*
when the ea happened. he promised he would do anything to prove to me he was fully engaged in our marriage. i told him my biggest complaint was all of his activities*:scratchhead:


SO In other words he didn't keep his promise, and you're fully aware he hasn't and now you are feeling resentful and angry at yourself for putting up with it? Take some time to think about this, and then compare that to what will honestly make YOU happy,and what kind of relationship you expect in your future. The truth is that you're just keeping this situation alive by pumping your time and attention into it.If instead, you step back and stop chasing him or trying to convince him he "should want to spend more time with you",you'll have an opportunity to do something that can honestly be attractive to him-You first leave a space that he'll not recognize and not understand, which will first get him thinking about you and then wondering why you aren't acting the way you used to.Men love "new" things and curiosities.Plus, you'll also be able to give him the space he's been asking you for in his emotionally-retarded, unavailable "man-speak."The bottom line is men never feel attraction for women that they can control.The more control a man has over you, the less ATTRACTION he feels for you.The less of a challenge you are - and the more predictable you become - the less attraction he feels. It's very simple.To put it another way; if you're the type of woman who lets her emotions "TAKE OVER", then you need to learn how to "own" them and improve on the way you communicate.

You know, something funny happens when a man gets the space he's asked for-If you do it in the right way, he's forced to deal with himself and his own feelings to figure out that all the things he is worried about, afraid of, fearful of "committing to", etc.And being by himself, he'll see that these things are really just in his own mind - and not bad things about YOU.In other words - he won't keep taking all the old "stuff" from the past that wasn't working and keep identifying it with YOU.But you've to go know the way to
"re-wire" the connection once you've broken the old one.And if you can do this, I guarantee he'll be the one wondering about you and wanting to make changes.

Once your guy notices that he doesn't have you waiting around for him like a puppy dog anymore to figure things out, while he's off doing his "activities", there's going to be a big change in his attitude and behavior.The more you can distance yourself from your husband, the happier you'll be.Trust me.And I know doing this is tough,but you've got to.You're making a lot of assumptions about his feelings when you say "i still know he loves me " when you know he's still not keeping his promises to you after the EA.Thinking about this only keeps you stuck on him and his feelings.If you listen closely to the signals your husband is sending you, you'll see that his "feelings" are just his way of holding onto you for his own comfort.He's still choosing all these insignificant activities over spending more time with you- despite his recent EA and his promise to do "whatever he needed to do" to work on the marriage.That should give you a clear idea of where his mind is at (not focused on working on the marriage) and what his "feelings" TRULY are. So here's what I want you to do first and foremost.... Think about making some decisions for YOURSELF.Right now it sounds like your waiting for him to make all the decisions.

Think about what YOU WANT to be happy, and remember all the things your husband has done and said to let you know he's not committed to sharing his love with you.If you give him and yourself some space, a funny thing might happen you won't expect....Your husband won't have the comfort of a woman who wants his affection. He won't know that you're still there waiting for him - and this will trigger thoughts and actions in him that will ultimately help resolve your situation.

Until then....

For your own well-being, it's important you let him know he can't keep sharing his intimate feelings with you while he's unwilling to make any real changes.

Best of luck and Stay Strong

LadyInBlue


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> You are being just like your hubby. You are just not hearing me! I said be firm! I did not say nag him. Being firm means taking the time to make a short check-list of what you want and telling him, I want this or else. But you can't start that process until you have been firm with yourself. That way, when it comes out, it will sound powerful - and he will be left with a genuine choice.
> 
> Because you have been wishy-washy up 'till now he has been left with a far simpler choice - Help you, or just ignore you and hope your demands evaporate. And he has taken the easy option because you always accommodate him. You may complain, but it's accommodation, because in the end he always gets away with it. He had an EA, and got away with it - which is all credit to you on the forgiveness angle, but you must use that as the wake up call.
> 
> The irony is that he will be much happier with the new firm you! He needs saving from himself. That is one of the benefits of marriage. My wife sometimes tells me when to "knock it off", and upon reflection I see she was right.


you are so right! i decided to be firm this weekend & told him exactly what i needed from him. his response was that he didn't know if he could give me what i needed without compromising who he is. i said that's fine, but we have a major problem then! he left to collect his thoughts. the next day was better. we did a family activity at his suggestion. had an overall good day. then monday came. he had to go to the local club for an activity & didn't come home till super, super late. i had told him earlier that i had a project i needed to complete that was already late. therefore, i needed his help with the kids & bedtime. he totally dissed me & would not answer his cell. i called the club at 1 am, because i was still working on the project & our baby woke up. he said he would be right home but didn't come for over an hour. by the time he came through the door, i was so disheartened. he sat down to talk to me & chat as if everything was just great. when i asked why he didn't come right home, he threw a fit. he said he was done, & for the first time, i said that was fine because so was i. he said he was leaving to stay somewhere else (i usually try to stop him) & i told him that was a good idea because i was sick of being a doormat. he came home early the next morning saying how sorry he was & how he wanted to make things better because all that really mattered to him was right at home. i accepted his apology & said i hoped he truly meant what he said but honestly would not get my hopes up. i also said i did not, under any circumstances, want him to do this just because of me. i only want that if he is happy with himself doing it. i also told him i thought he should quit drinking. he is not an alcoholic but it's been an issue all along which seems to aid in keeping him away "longer than he expected." he agreed & i left it at that & told him i was no longer "pulling" to make things better. basically, the ball is in his court. i said that i was here, where i want to be & always have been. i told him i was also starting to take one evening a week for myself for which he has to be home with the kids & do homework, bathtime, bedtime, etc. the rest of the day went well & he seems more in tune with himself. i hope he stays on track. only time will tell, but for now, i feel better for standing my ground & not compromising myself for once! i've done what i can do & have to choose now to move forward with a positive attitude while being firm!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> This is probably over-simplifying what you are going through, but I thought i'd throw it out here anyway.
> 
> Have you ever joined in with some of his activities? Have you taken real interest in his hobbies?
> 
> ...



i love joining him for his activities & have always taken an interest in them. we go to softball games as a family but darts, hunting & fantasy football are activities i can't really join in on. i would but most are during the week when i am busy being mom. we do go hang out sometimes at the places where he goes for darts & ff though. it's nice because it gives me a chance to get to know some of the people he's around.


----------



## Ladyinblue (Sep 18, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> you are so right! i decided to be firm this weekend & told him exactly what i needed from him. his response was that he didn't know if he could give me what i needed without compromising who he is. i said that's fine, but we have a major problem then! he left to collect his thoughts. the next day was better. we did a family activity at his suggestion. had an overall good day. then monday came. he had to go to the local club for an activity & didn't come home till super, super late. i had told him earlier that i had a project i needed to complete that was already late. therefore, i needed his help with the kids & bedtime. he totally dissed me & would not answer his cell. i called the club at 1 am, because i was still working on the project & our baby woke up. he said he would be right home but didn't come for over an hour. by the time he came through the door, i was so disheartened. he sat down to talk to me & chat as if everything was just great. when i asked why he didn't come right home, he threw a fit. he said he was done, & for the first time, i said that was fine because so was i. he said he was leaving to stay somewhere else (i usually try to stop him) & i told him that was a good idea because i was sick of being a doormat. he came home early the next morning saying how sorry he was & how he wanted to make things better because all that really mattered to him was right at home. i accepted his apology & said i hoped he truly meant what he said but honestly would not get my hopes up. i also said i did not, under any circumstances, want him to do this just because of me. i only want that if he is happy with himself doing it. i also told him i thought he should quit drinking. he is not an alcoholic but it's been an issue all along which seems to aid in keeping him away "longer than he expected." he agreed & i left it at that & told him i was no longer "pulling" to make things better. basically, the ball is in his court. i said that i was here, where i want to be & always have been. i told him i was also starting to take one evening a week for myself for which he has to be home with the kids & do homework, bathtime, bedtime, etc. the rest of the day went well & he seems more in tune with himself. i hope he stays on track. only time will tell, but for now, i feel better for standing my ground & not compromising myself for once! i've done what i can do & have to choose now to move forward with a positive attitude while being firm!


:smthumbup:
*WOW! You go girl! I'm glad you stood your ground*

LadyINBLUE


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

Ladyinblue said:


> I can relate to you on many levels-because this is exactly what my struggle has been throughout our marriage.Here's what I've learned, and what i have began doing differently.First off, it's a losing battle, and you're going to end up being hurt or upset again as you undoubtedly keep moving farther and farther away from what YOU ideally want and closer and closer to whatever strange and unhealthy situation he's creating.f you feel like you HAVE to Stay and try to work things out, then be careful. You're going against the odds.I want you to step back from everything going on around you and in your love life right now.Get in touch with what's going on for YOU, instead of what's going on with your husband. Now answer a simple question for me-Answering honestly, how many of the things that you do, or the things that you've chosen for yourself
> when it comes to men and relationships, stems from your own personal fear of being alone?
> i can honestly say that i do not have a fear of being alone! i have more of a fear that my husband will push me to the point that i WANT nothing more than to be alone.
> Take out a pen and a piece of paper right now and write down what you just learned or identified about yourself.To compare notes now, let me share some common and unbelievably stupid things I've done to avoid my fear of being single or alone
> ...



thanks for such a thoughtful & heartfelt response! while i don't see myself in all of your response, one thing is clear - i need to take some time for me! i will better know myself & will be less focused on him & what he is thinking! thanks for the words of encouragement!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i forgot to add that he also told me he is not happy with himself & how his life has turned out in certain aspects (financially mostly). he said he feels like a f*@# up & that he is disappointed in himself. (we both honestly agree that we love eachother & want nothing more than for things to be better.) i think this speaks volumes for a lot of our problems! i think it goes back to the issue of him running from his problems. he sweeps things under the rug by running & doing all of his activities instead of trying to figure things out. is this a man thing? is it almost like he is self-destructing because he doesn't have respect for himself? help me out here!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> you are so right! i decided to be firm this weekend & told him exactly what i needed from him....


Good for you! but now you need to consolidate this. I hate to say this, but it's like handling a kid. You need to be firm and consistent. He will test you. He already did - but you won! But he will try again. At least 3 times. After that it should get easier.

However, you can't just railroad him on all fronts - you will cause a nuclear explosion! I notice you mentioned drinking... That is a huge subject all on it's own.

What I would suggest is that you pick ONE thing to work on with him. Take the thing that matters to you the most. When you have got that well under way, you can work your way down the list 

Don not nag, moan or grumble. INSIST!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> is it almost like he is self-destructing because he doesn't have respect for himself? help me out here!


That I can not say, but if he put the energy of his extracurricular activities into business, he would have made a lot of money. This is another example of how he needs saving from himself. As do I sometimes


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

thanks mt! i am trying with all my might to change my behaviors as well! i do realize that i will never get a different result with the same behavior! also, if i pick the "one" thing to work on & he doesn't do what he says, how do i approach him? i am always so full of emotion & that seems to get him on the defensive. any suggestions?


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808 said:


> thanks mt! i am trying with all my might to change my behaviors as well! i do realize that i will never get a different result with the same behavior! also, if i pick the "one" thing to work on & he doesn't do what he says, how do i approach him? i am always so full of emotion & that seems to get him on the defensive. any suggestions?


You have already hinted at the ultimatum, so you simply can't backtrack.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> You have already hinted at the ultimatum, so you simply can't backtrack.


not sure what you mean. what i meant was how do i approach him if he screws up my ultimatum. i am not backing down by any means! i just want some advice on how to remind him of the ultimatum when necessary (he tends to pretend like things are fine when he does something he knows will upset me.)


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

An ultimatum can be given in two cases.

1)When you really mean it - ie you have nothing to lose, or you just don't care if they call your bluff.

2)When you don't really mean it, and you cross your fingers behind your back that they don't know you're only bluffing.

If you use #1, you can always invoke it and "freshen it up" if you have to.

If you use #2, you are in danger of being found out to be roaring like a lion, but cringing like a mouse.

I have used both in business, I like to gamble 

But in general, be FIRM. Consistency is the watchword.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

thanks mark. i think some days i am #1 & some days #2. i will try to be as firm as i possibly can. i am so tired of turmoil!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

just a little update. it's been a pretty good week but boy was i tested last week! i stood my ground as best as i could basically saying that i needed x,y & z still. we had a rocky week but it was different. 

i am still having a hard time getting past some feelings, & i think he senses that. today he said he was sorry, out of the blue, for all the hurt he has caused. that was so nice to hear. 

last weekend i had a girls night out & planned one for this weekend also (totally not like me to go 2 weekends in a row! i'm lucky to go once every 2 months!) i'm hoping it will eventually spark his interest in asking me to go out with him. things are going good overall. i'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Firmness when it's benign, is the best medicine there is - as long as it's washed down with a huge dollop of sex


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

:corkysm60:thanks mt! no problem in that department for us! there never was! i crave being with him just as much as he does me! even through all of this chaos, we're still having fun! actually, it might even be better because there is a lot of making up to do! i guess it has always been a very important part of our marriage! so don't worry, my firmness is definitely given with a gigantic dollop of sex! i've actually learned to even diffuse his moments of anger (he's got a short fuse!) with a comment about what we're going to do later. it's working really well. i used to get upset & take things so personal. i am lightening up a bit & it feels good! i'm seeing things differently now, & i can see there is a lot for both of us to learn throughout this deal.:smthumbup:


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

ok. so i'm having a not so good day! i hate when a reminder suddenly pops up. i saw her picture today & i hated how it made me feel. i can't imagine if i actually ran into her. i don't know if i am cut out for this. i realize today how much anger i have toward my husband for putting me in this position. i am second guessing everything! i just want someone who only wants me! maybe it isn't going to work????


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808-
Jealousy is an irrational human emotion. Of coarse you can beat it. It's your jealousy, you can drop it any time you're ready. Just focus on the good time you're having NOW!


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

mt, ..........is it jealousy when you are betrayed? i am not jealous of her. i actually knew her already & don't have a lot of respect for her to begin with. she's one of those "fix me uppers". 

i am just wondering if i am wasting my time because i can't seem to get past the fact that he put me aside for someone else. i am stuck on it totally. i am just trying to be honest with myself! it's not even that i'm just hurt & will eventually get over it but that i am the kind of person who always believed that once you cross the line, it's tainted forever!??? i don't know...i just know i hate how i feel about me & how i feel when i look at him. we're ok when we're together but i must admit, i feel different, not that i don't love him, but just different now. sometimes i feel as if i'm going through motions. i never felt that way before! the longer it gets, i feel like i am not sure if i want to move on. am i always going to feel such anger? i can't keep poisoning myself by getting upset, mad, etc. i feel very alone in my thoughts & feelings too. i hate what kind of person i have become. i know it's time for me to fix it & move on but i'm not sure what moving on means anymore! ughhhhhhh!!!!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808-

When water is frozen, if you hit it with a hammer, it will shatter. When water is liquid, hitting it with a hammer just makes it perturbed for a while, and then it settles down.

Anyone who's self-image is so fragile that an affair will shatter it, will always run the risk of misery, because most relationships have an affair to cope with at some point. If you started a new relationship with a good looking man, you would never be able to relax and enjoy it to the full, because there would always be that nagging doubt in the back of your mind.

The only way to move on, is to accept what happened, and accept that you can accept it. That's what's really bugging you. You can't accept that you are the sort of person that could allow it not to trouble you.

One thing that might help you - but you won't like it - is to realize that the affair your hubby had with a totally different sort of woman to you, shows the amazing range of your husband's appreciation for women. The only way to get past all of this is by total acceptance of all the feelings that come up.

If you can only love someone as long as they never cross the line... your love is not strong enough for this particular planet.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

thanks mt. i think i just have to change my way of thinking because it's not that i don't want to stay with him or that i don't love him. in fact, i would be more miserable without him! that's the irony of life! i'm just hung up on myself & being hurt. time to get past it & move on! i suppose if i keep telling myself that, i will eventually accept it.????

anyway, i had a breakdown yesterday & talked to my H about it. (i'm dealing with some major health issues since last wednesday & have to wait 2 weeks to get some tests - so this was weighing on me heavily too!) i feel better now that he knows how i am feeling but at the same time, i feel horrible for being stuck in this rut & bringing the whole thing up again. it's just hard when you have a certain mindset & then have to change it. i will do it though! i'm a very strong-willed person. it's just difficult to hide what i am feeling because i am a "what you see is what you get" kind of person. i guess you could say "i wear my heart on my sleeve." 

(as far as TOW, he has known her since she was a kid. i knew her too. she is much younger than he & very beautiful. i can see how she could stroke his ego! our life was in a weird spot at the time, not with eachother but just life in general. i actually spoke with her when i found out about the whole thing (yuck!). it's a long story but no mystery that he was attracted to her because there was already history there.)

as far as the crossing the line thing, i'm not sure how i feel because i am a true, true, true person! it's hard for me to see gray when i see things so black & white when it comes to the relationships in life!


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

bluebutterfly0808-

Read my last post again


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

things just feel the same!!! that's not exactly what i'm looking for! here i sit alone again while he's doing another activity. i'm just tired! tired of talking, being alone all the time, having no one to talk to about my day, etc. i need more! i don't think i'm asking for much but he just doesn't get it!! i've tried the backing off route & talking & being happy, etc. nothing seems to make a difference. i'm at a loss & low point right now! i can't keep doing this over & over & over. what do i do?


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Now you've changed the subject!

Yesterday it was the affair, now it's being alone while he's busy. I thought you were dealing with that, by getting him to give up a few activities. How about getting a few of you're own also?


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

is someone not allowed to go from one thing to another? sometimes it is a collection of things that are amiss in one's life. the affair still eats me up yes, but last night i was alone so that's what was bugging me first & foremost. he's not busy either! it was a leisure activity that was totally unnecessary! he already has a given 1 (usually 2-3) nights per week that he has a leisure activity. when he left, the kids were begging him not to go. he said he had a meeting & that he would be back soon. well, soon didn't happen & our oldest was mad that he wasn't home before they went to bed. it's getting hard because the kids feel it too. i don't know why he can't see this!

getting a few of my own activities sounds great but honestly, i live in such a rural area, there is nothing but bars!!! i'm not one to hop bars just for the heck of it on a week night! i'm a mom first & when dad isn't around, i have too much to take care of. i do go once a month with my girlfriends but that's about it.

anyway, like i said, i've reached a low point & everything is annoying me. him dropping activities did not happen & that's why i was frustrated last night. he just sprung it on me that he was leaving for the evening. 

this morning i did stand my ground & told him he can continue what he is doing but no longer at my expense. i said i needed time to figure out how i was going to change what i needed to to make me a happier person as i can't rely on him to do that for me. i told him i am tired of being lonely at home at night. i did this in a calm, matter of fact manner. he was receptive & said he would cut his activities. i told him that i have heard that before but actions are what i need. i also said if he can't do that, it was fine but that i can't continue this path anymore. i said i want him to cut activities only if that's what he wants not because i'm a nag that won't let it go. we'll see what happens.


----------



## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

please do not reply to this post. i am done. sometimes the advice given on here is absolutely priceless! i thank all who have taken their time & given me such advice & lots of words of encouragement. it was nice to be able to vent but sometimes some members analyze you in a way that is not helpful but very condescending. unfortunatley, i am at a point where i don't need that. i have enough criticism in my real life that i can't take anymore on here. i guess what it boils down to is that no matter what, people really couldn't possibly understand how someone really feels in their relationship. too many years have gone by & there is no way i could ever explain it all. i think journaling my feelings is a better avenue to take for now. it's time for some soul searching so i can figure myself out instead of everyone trying to figure me out!

i would especially like to thank swedish! you made me feel like my irrational feelings & behaviors were only normal for my situation & that time would help. you helped me through days that i felt pretty dark! i guess what i need now is TIME! i think when i post, it rehashes everything. i need to put it away & be done with it! also, it is too hard reading so many other posts about everyone else's problems. maybe one day, when i've had my time, i will return & have some words of wisdom for everyone!? until then, thanks again! bye.......


----------

