# I overheard my husband say that he's not attracted to me...



## quin

...but that he is with my because I'm a good wife and we get along well. Followed by, "Eh, it's ok, definitely have had better. Who am I to complain, some married folks don't get it at all. Like you (laughing)." Which I can easily assume was about our sex life. He didn't know I was home when he said it, he was talking online to one (or more) of his friends while playing a game. I don't know what's worse, hearing him say that or him saying it to his friend(s). I see his friends a few times a month and since his friends all blabber they probably all know that he thinks I'm ugly and suck at sex.

I have been with my husband for 2 years. He's a really attractive man. I have never felt ugly next to him but I don't feel like I'm as attractive as he is. I haven't had a lot of self-confidence issues until now. I was single for nearly a decade after getting divorced so maybe I should have...

My own husband doesn't find my attractive... Every time he's said I'm pretty, or beautiful, or sexy was a giant lie and makes everything feel like a lie. He settled for me... And what happens when someone better comes along... Now when he goes out I obsess over what he's doing, if there is someone at work he is more attracted to or... even just attracted to in general. I'm ugly and the sex sucks apparently so during does he think about someone else who he "definitely had better" sex with. Every time he glances at another woman or makes a comment about another woman's appearance it physically hurts. It didn't bother me before, everyone is attracted to other people. It bothers me now because he is attracted to all these women but not me. 

My ex-husband felt the same and it makes me want to quit. He was only with me because he felt obligated to be with me, hooked up once and got pregnant. Now, my new husband settled for me because he was in his mid-30's, never married and wanted to settle down. 

I feel stupid for not knowing and not figuring it out. Now I don't know where to go from here. Stay married to a man who isn't attracted to me or have two divorces and two broken families by 34?


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## MEM2020

Quin,
You are smart and mature. You also write well and are honest. Those are all big things. 

Plenty of people say stuff 'for effect' around their friends. Stuff they don't really mean. For example, some guys might make that type comment - fishing for compliments. 

For example. He says: I'm not all that attracted to my wife 
Hoping his buddies will say: are you out of your mind, your wife is hot 

The real question here isn't whether or not that was an awful thing to say. It was, and no one will tell you different. 

The real question is instead this: Did he mean what he said? 

And of the two parts one is more important than the other. You can't change your appearance, but you can probably figure out how to increase your sexual compatibility. Assuming that - when the dust settles you want to stay married. 

And fwiw - if he acts attracted to you and if he wants a fair amount of sex, he likely IS attracted to you. He's a man, kind of hard for him to get hard if he isn't turned on. 









quin said:


> ...but that he is with my because I'm a good wife and we get along well. Followed by, "Eh, it's ok, definitely have had better. Who am I to complain, some married folks don't get it at all. Like you (laughing)." Which I can easily assume was about our sex life. He didn't know I was home when he said it, he was talking online to one (or more) of his friends while playing a game. I don't know what's worse, hearing him say that or him saying it to his friend(s). I see his friends a few times a month and since his friends all blabber they probably all know that he thinks I'm ugly and suck at sex.
> 
> I have been with my husband for 2 years. He's a really attractive man. I have never felt ugly next to him but I don't feel like I'm as attractive as he is. I haven't had a lot of self-confidence issues until now. I was single for nearly a decade after getting divorced so maybe I should have...
> 
> My own husband doesn't find my attractive... Every time he's said I'm pretty, or beautiful, or sexy was a giant lie and makes everything feel like a lie. He settled for me... And what happens when someone better comes along... Now when he goes out I obsess over what he's doing, if there is someone at work he is more attracted to or... even just attracted to in general. I'm ugly and the sex sucks apparently so during does he think about someone else who he "definitely had better" sex with. Every time he glances at another woman or makes a comment about another woman's appearance it physically hurts. It didn't bother me before, everyone is attracted to other people. It bothers me now because he is attracted to all these women but not me.
> 
> My ex-husband felt the same and it makes me want to quit. He was only with me because he felt obligated to be with me, hooked up once and got pregnant. Now, my new husband settled for me because he was in his mid-30's, never married and wanted to settle down.
> 
> I feel stupid for not knowing and not figuring it out. Now I don't know where to go from here. Stay married to a man who isn't attracted to me or have two divorces and two broken families by 34?


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## hifromme67

I am so sorry that you are feeling that way. I am going through the same thing although due to a different reason but the pain is still immense. Please know that you are good enough and your worth is not based on what someone thinks of you. Is there something you can do to make yourself feel better? Work out? Color your hair? Etc? I know when I feel "ugly" and "not good enough" I get myself ready. I do my hair, makeup and dress nice. I know that I feel good about myself and if my husband does not find me sexy, I feel good about myself and someone else will too. 


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## SunCMars

quin said:


> ...but that he is with my because I'm a good wife and we get along well. Followed by, "Eh, it's ok, definitely have had better. Who am I to complain, some married folks don't get it at all. Like you (laughing)." Which I can easily assume was about our sex life. He didn't know I was home when he said it, he was talking online to one (or more) of his friends while playing a game. I don't know what's worse, hearing him say that or him saying it to his friend(s). I see his friends a few times a month and since his friends all blabber they probably all know that he thinks I'm ugly and suck at sex.
> 
> I have been with my husband for 2 years. He's a really attractive man. I have never felt ugly next to him but I don't feel like I'm as attractive as he is. *I haven't had a lot of self-confidence issues until now*. I was single for nearly a decade after getting divorced so maybe I should have...
> 
> My own husband doesn't find my attractive... Every time *he's said I'm pretty*, or beautiful, or sexy was a giant lie and makes everything feel like a lie. He settled for me... And what happens when someone better comes along... Now when he goes out I obsess over what he's doing, if there is someone at work he is more attracted to or... even just attracted to in general. I'm ugly and the sex sucks apparently so during does he think about someone else who he "definitely had better" sex with. Every time he glances at another woman or makes a comment about another woman's appearance it physically hurts. It didn't bother me before, everyone is attracted to other people. It bothers me now because he is attracted to all these women but not me.
> 
> My ex-husband felt the same and it makes me want to quit. He was only with me because he felt obligated to be with me, hooked up once and got pregnant. Now, my new husband settled for me because he was in his mid-30's, never married and wanted to settle down.
> 
> 
> I feel stupid for not knowing and not figuring it out. Now I don't know where to go from here. Stay married to a man who isn't attracted to me or have two divorces and two broken families by 34?



The main thing "wrong" with you is you have a bad picker. Bad man picker.

You were very young with your first marriage, and you got out early. That is good. That is not as big a mistake as you think.

You waited ten years to find another man. That is also "likely" good. You did not jump into another relationship.

You are beautiful. Your husband married you. Why would a man marry an ugly women? Marry an ugly women when HE is a handsome guy?

He is good looking on the outside and ugly on the inside. He is a phony............or he is an egotist. He thinks so highly of himself that no women is worthy enough for his sorry azz.

Me? I would let him know that you overheard what he said. Let him TAP DANCE out of this mess.

If he bends over backwards to correct the damage, good. 

If he downplays his horrible comments, brushes your concerns away........then brush him away. One divorce, two divorce...so what. Get a better one on the third strike of the match. You are young.

Be prepared for "Gas Lighting". Gas lighting is where someone tries to turn the tables on you. Telling you that you are crazy, you are wrong, you are.....on to them and they want to silence you.
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Note: Not being great in bed can be fixed [if that is true]
Not being loyal to your wife, by saying bad things about her cannot be "fixed". He has character issues.

Sorry for your pain and your discovery. Hang in there, Kid. Your life is not over by a long shot.


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## Rubix Cubed

You're married to a gamer in his mid 30s, odds are probably good it was all bluster to look like the big man to his buddies. Have you confronted him about what he said ? That's what you need to do. If he was bs'ing then you will have called him on it and taken control of the situation to boot. Don't bottle it up.


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## Faithful Wife

This would be very hard to hear. I'm so sorry you heard it. Words like that can't really get out of your head very easily.

But it is totally possible that your H had some reason for saying it and the way he said it, but that it isn't technically true.

I am dating a man right now who by some women's standards would not be attractive. But to me he is very attractive. So I have said at times to my younger girlfriends who literally can't imagine how they will ever be attracted to 55 year old men, "yes I know he's an old white guy" or similar. I am implying that I understand you gals don't get it and I don't expect you to say "oh wow your boyfriend is so hot!" I don't push my attraction for him on them either because I know it will make them go "ew" even if they don't say it out loud.

Meanwhile, we have a sex life that would blow these kids out of the water if they only knew. I know we have something they don't have and wish they had. 

I hope somehow your husband can make you feel better. I would tell him what you heard, and allow him to just react. I'm sure he will feel bad, embarrassed, etc. He might also feel defensive. It will put him on the spot. But if he can pull out some kind of honest reasoning for what he said (like my example above type of thing) then maybe you will be able to believe him (if you sense he is being honest).

One of my ex's said something really mean to the point of a little cruel about a part of my body once. He said it right to me, I didn't over hear it. I agreed with him about that part of my body, so even though it hurt to hear it, I didn't blame him for saying it or thinking it. I never mentioned it again. I just kept that part of my body hidden from him as much as possible.

Years later it came up again one time. He was shocked to find out how I had internalized that moment and held the same to it for over 10 years. I said well, why wouldn't I? It is true what you said so why wouldn't I just believe it? He then said that he had been a young fool. He said that he now loved this part of my body and I knew in that moment, he really meant it. He never, ever wanted me to feel so unworthy in that area all those years. He was just young and didn't know I wouldn't change how I felt about myself as we grew and matured. Obviously there was a big lack of communication about the topic and I never asked him about it, so I never allowed any healing or growth or room for expansion of his original position either. I stayed stuck, but I didn't have to .... which I only found out a decade later. I wish I had asked him about it before, asked him to soothe me somehow. I know he would have told me much sooner that he no longer agreed with his early assessment.


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## megamuppet

I would absolutely ask him what he meant. I would also tell him how it has made you feel. This will not go away and will only eat away at you. 
I am sure you are beautiful (to him and others), he would not have married you otherwise. And the sex part can be worked on. You need to both communicate what you need from each other. Thats whats important x

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## Wolfman1968

quin said:


> ...but that he is with my because I'm a good wife and we get along well. Followed by, "Eh, it's ok, definitely have had better. Who am I to complain, some married folks don't get it at all. Like you (laughing)." Which I can easily assume was about our sex life. He didn't know I was home when he said it, he was talking online to one (or more) of his friends while playing a game. I don't know what's worse, hearing him say that or him saying it to his friend(s). I see his friends a few times a month and since his friends all blabber they probably all know that he thinks I'm ugly and suck at sex.


I'm not trying to downplay your feelings, but seem to remember (but cannot find) some thread in a similar vein, but that time it was the guys who feeling threatened. I may be incorrectly merging different threads in my memory, but some guys voiced the opinion that they would not be happy if their wives (or girlfriends) did not feel that they were the best (or in some cases not the biggest) lovers they ever had, or if they didn't inspire burning desire in their wives. They didn't want to be the "beta" choice, selected for being nice or supportive or good providers or good fathers rather than for passion.

The response was that with people today having a lot of experiences before they settle down, it is unrealistic to expect to be the "best." Rather, focus that in the end, your mix of pros and cons were chosen. They (mostly women posters, if I remember), responded that those guys were just being insecure, being "unrealistic" to expect that they would be the best, and their insecurities would undermine the relationship, especially if they focused too much on this "beta male" business.

Your situation seems somewhat analogous to that. Maybe you don't push his "passion" buttons, but you have other attributes which he finds valuable (good wife, get along well, and apparently even though it may not be a mind-blowing experience to him, you don't deny him which puts you ahead of a lot of others). 

So, maybe the answer is to follow the advice of those women posters in the other threads. Maybe, instead of insisting of being his best sexual experience, you could focus on your strengths that he values. Find your own niche, in other words. After all, he did choose you in the end.


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## EleGirl

What your husband said to his friends is horribly disrespectful to you. Are wondering what other unflattering things he's told his friends about you in the past? Like you said, he's telling these things to people you know. What a insult!

I don't think that there is anything he can say that puts this in a better light. There is no excuse for putting down his wife to other men. If it were me, I would not ask for an explanation. But I would tell him what I overheard. And I would tell him that now that you know the truth of how he sees you, you question whether or not to stay married to him. 

I don't know how you get over what he said and stay with him. I doubt that you will ever believe anything good he says about your appearance and you sexually in the future.

Have you changed much in appearance since you started dating and since you married?

What's most important is how you feel about yourself?


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## MattMatt

This is the kind of thing my wife says about me.

At least she says it to my face and not behind my back.

I am NOT asking you to share your photograph with us.

But if you did, it is certain that a good percentage of folks on TAM would say: "Wow! She looks good!"

Your husband says you are unattractive and your husband's friend doesn't get any sex?

Yep! They are 30s going on early teens by the sounds of it.

I think you might need to tell him what you heard or risk letting it fester over time.


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## Mizzbak

Yes, he was behaving like an ass. 

Firstly, @quin sweetheart - *sex is a team sport*.
I'm assuming that your husband feels that he is an expert? Has had many more lovers than you? Has left a trail of satisfied women behind him? In my experience, the more experienced party in a sexual relationship gets a kick out of showing the less experienced partner other ways for them BOTH to enjoy themselves (and the other person) more. It's about discovering that each person you make love with is unique and that the chemistry that you have with them is unique. If your husband is still in the place where he has a ranking system for his sexual partners, collecting badges like a selfish adolescent then he is a long way from expert. Out of interest, how do you enjoy sex with him? (IMO, that is the measure of a really good lover.) If your sex isn't earth-shattering for either of you, why is this just on you? FWIW, the more desirable and cherished I feel, the more I trust my husband, the better the sex is for me ... and him as well.

As to your husband not finding you attractive...  @MEM2020, @SunCMars and @Faithful Wife all make good points. Can I push you harder on whether YOU find a man who could say the things that your husband said attractive? A big part of my attraction to other people is how I FEEL when I'm with them. Attraction is a complicated animal. And a big part of being attractive is feeling that you are. (Which has to be one of the worst feedback loops in the universe.) A negative self-image can be like a cancer. You need to work on fighting that independent of your marriage. I have had my own battles (and probably always will) with this. Fight it. You're better, stronger and more capable than you think. And more beautiful. (It sounds like the men in your life have done quite a job on your self-esteem.) 



quin said:


> ... Every time he's said I'm pretty, or beautiful, or sexy was a giant lie and makes everything feel like a lie. He settled for me...


Why can't this one time be the lie? And all the rest of the times be the truth. I can't think of a good reason for him to have said what he did. The other posters have suggested possible circumstances that explain (not excuse) why he would have said something he didn't mean. And yes, I think that you should tell him that you heard what he said and see what he does. 

(There are men who belitttle their own perfectly beautiful and sexy wives in an effort to control them by damaging their self-confidence. Are you sure that your husband didn't know you could hear him?) 

Finally, I think that your husband is WAAAAAAY too comfortable. Like he's the one who settled. Really? Think very carefully about how he makes you feel. About what he brings to your relationship. And then be open with him about how glad you are that he has brought this up (although he could have done it in a better way). Share with him that sex with him isn't that great for you either. That you've also had better. And muse about how surface attractiveness is one thing, but that far more rewarding relationships quickly rely on what is under the surface. As my granny always used to say - handsome is as handsome does. (I would like to point out that he was the one who was single into his mid-30's.)


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## MattMatt

Of course, your husband could be suffering from *IMS.

*Idiot Male Syndrome.


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## Satya

Any spouse that would slag you off to friends behind your back has zero respect for you, zero compassion, and zero maturity IMO. 

If he'd come to you privately, that'd be no less hurtful, but it'd have been the adult and mature thing to do. 

I am an ex gamer and my ex H was and probably still is one. He'd be on voice chat with friends slagging me off while I was in the kitchen making him dinner. Because of the ego trip it gave him with his online mates, but also because he didn't have much respect for me. 

Regardles of what he really thinks, you deserve better than to be with someone who is two faced. Don't let your self esteem take a hit. If you take care of yourself and love yourself, then it won't matter what anyone else thinks. The truth of nature is that some people hit the genetic lottery more than others. IME, most of the exceptionally beautiful people I know are damaged or rotten on the inside. Very few I know are truly humble and modest, and those that are are all around exceptional people. 

Your husband isn't all that great. Look beyond his looks, at the reality. Maybe he would be happier with another woman, but I'm pretty darn sure you'd be happier with a better man.


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## manfromlamancha

Quin, I really don't understand your relationship with him but I will say this: your husband is a self-entitled, insensitive oaf and doesn't sound like a good person at all (so God knows why you settled for him - yes, it is you that settled).

Perhaps (apart from dumping his a$$) what he needs is a return gesture from you. Talk online with (nobody in particular) and say out loud when you know he can hear you (but pretend not to know he was there) something like "yeah I ended up marrying the simpleton oaf with the swinging d!ck - he thinks he is all that and I let him because I wouldn't want him to know that he is just a walking dildo to me - and not a very good one too, not like (make up a name) who was excellent in bed but not as good looking."

Trust me, if you do it right, you will see some results.


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## GA HEART

I'm sorry. I know how this feels. Although me and mine were pretty equally matched on the attractiveness level. I rarely heard how pretty/hot/beautiful I was. We had no sex life to speak of. So even though he never really said he wasn't attracted, I knew he wasn't. He felt like he settled, which was a decently miserable experience for me. We were not married, but I know I had to get away. It hurts, but being with someone who feels above me (when I know they aren't) hurt worse.


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## Daisy12

I'm sorry you heard your husband say this about you. I also know how it feels, my husband once told me that he was not as attracted to me when I was heavier between the births of our 4 children. Now this is nowheres near as bad as what your husband said about you, but I was still crushed and actually pulled away from him for many years. I'm over it now, we have worked through many problem, but I have never forgotten those words and how they made me feel. I never will and wish I had called him out then because conveniently he doesn't remember saying it.

I would confront your husband and let him try to dance his way out of this one. If he told this to his friends, you have to bet that other things are being said as well and I for one would not want my business spread all over town.


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## ad356

sad to hear it and at the very least he owes you a sincere apology. my wife gained some weight over the years but i would never ever insult her. i do not say mean things about her to my "buddies" which of i only have a few guys that i associate with regularly. when you marry someone your supposed to respect and honor them. saying that you arent attracted to your wife is not respect. my wife has her self esteem problems and complains about her weight. i tell her simply that loosing weight would be a positive for her health but i never ever go around and says she's fat or ugly. looks are skin deep and she is an amazingly sweet, kind hearted woman. i try to boost her self esteem tell her she is pretty, sexy, and that still love having sex with her. these things are all true she gained weight but she's still a pretty girl. i gained some myself over the years.

the point is i have enough respect not to say those things and i enjoy making her feel better about herself. let me tell you who she is far makes up for a few extra pound. who gives a damn about weight gain. allot of women are pretty on the outside but are actually nasty people on the inside. im glad i didnt fall for that trap.

i find things to say to my wife that make her feel good about herself. she has some of the most beautiful eyes i have ever seen, she has gorgeous thick, long hair, she has nice facial features and skin complextion. she does not need to wear makeup and is a naturally good looking woman.

he should pick out your best features and say something positive about how you look make you feel good about yourself. that's what a marriage is supposed to be. if he unfairly criticizes you he is just a poor husband. its cruel and unfair. women want to feel attractive and wanted by their spouses


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## Blondilocks

Now you know why he was mid-30s and never married. The thing is, when people make these self-serving remarks they don't realize that the remarks reflect on them and not their object of derision.

Hold his feet to the fire and, if he isn't appropriately remorseful, let him suffer the natural consequences of being a d!ck i.e. he doesn't get to use you for a wife, companion and bed warmer. He can join the ranks of his sexless buds.

I would decline being around his so-called friends. No one wants to feel they're being gossiped about by their own spouse.


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## xMadame

My ex was like this.

I am BY FAR not ugly, however I am over weight. He was not over weight and had a very nice body.

Our sex life was amazing, but my weight was always an issue with him and is was one of the ways that he abused me.

We were together for 2 years and I did not even meet his mother until after he beat the living crap out of me and was arrested and she approached me in court.

It was not until after I got away from him that my self confidence returned because I learned that it was him that had the problem, not me. Jus because I am over weight does not make me ugly.

Find out how he really feels.

If he was just talking sh!t with his buddies then tell him how it makes you feel and tell him to not disrespect you like that again.

If he does feel that way, then I would get out. No one should have to suffer with the constant torment or thinking their partner will cheat on them.

You married him and he married you and if he truly loved you then you would be the most beautiful woman in his eyes regardless.
The sex can always be spiced up and communication will fix that, but the other thing cannot be fixed unfortunately....and that is his problem, not yours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cooper

Wow that was a cold thing to say, the context of how or why he said it doesn't matter, it's incredibly hurtful and disrespectful toward you.

Do confront him, but understand he's going to blow it off as guy talk, still...you need to say how hurt you were by hearing those words. If he truly loves you maybe he will think before he speaks next time, if he doesn't love and respect you expect it to get worse.


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## wild jade

If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would interpret it this way:

He was talking to a buddy who was complaining about his wife and life and lack of sex, and for whatever reason didn't want to brag, or wanted his buddy to feel less bad, and so downplayed his own situation. Or was also responding to some other comment buddy had made about you or a past girlfriend, and didn't want to get into it. So brushed it off. 

Some guys are really big on the "my babe is the hottest babe in the world" bragging rights, but a lot of guys realize how ridiculous this can sound to others, particularly ones who are going through a miserable time, and don't play that game.

I think whether or not I'd give him that benefit of the doubt would depend on how he treated me otherwise. If he often makes you feel less than, then no excuse like the present to get out. But if it was a one off, I'd take it in stride. It sucks to be humbled, but at the same time, good to establish your own measure of self esteem that isn't dependent on the praise of others.


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## wild jade

Think of it this way 

You're sitting having coffee with a friend, and she is talking to you about her marriage, telling you how miserable she is, how mean her husband is to her, how he won't have sex with her, how lonely she feels.

How do you respond? Is that when you start gushing about how hot and wonderful your own man is?


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## katiecrna

He is attracted to you. Or at least he was, he wouldn't of married you if wasn't trust me. Don't ever think he settled, that thinking can really mess you up. 
One thing that is very attractive is a self respecting confident women. Walk up to your husband and call his a$$ out. Don't let him get you down, don't let yourself get depressed, don't let yourself think for a second he is right. Your not a doormat. Your his beautiful wife, and you deserve respect. Tell him if he isn't attracted to you and the sex isn't good he can walk out that door and find someone else. (Of course he won't, but you will get the point across that he can't speak like that). 
He owes a LOT of making up to you.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Lots of good comments here... for me it's all about the respect, or lack of. It's bad enough to put people down to lift oneself up, it's another to bind that insecurity with ego against one's own spouse.

Just... ugh.

It's said, "water seeks it's lowest level", and that is true with those we claim friendships with. I cannot be friends with one who belittles their spouse, it seems your husband has formed a club here... I hope for you he isn't the grand Poobah or his ego will be the greatest to come to terms with.

Perhaps better friends would help... ones who will call him out on such unmindful dribble.

I like accountability... but while it can be reinforced, it cannot be forced. I would be honest and let him know exactly what you heard and you are reevaluating your entire relationship over such hurtful and disrespectful words, and that nothing is off the table. 

Nor should it be when something of this caliber hurts you... the trust will be a hard one to build back little different than cheating, when trust is broken it breaks the core, source matters little. If it is minimized, reinforcing defeat is not a good sign.

While you didn't break this, the power to correct this lies in you... how he chooses will determine the choices you have to exercise. He has a lot of heavy lifting to do here, give him the opportunity, then spend whatever time it takes for you to reach the clarity you need.


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## Married but Happy

Don't forget that physical attraction is only one aspect of attraction, and most people who have had more than a couple of sexual partners may think that one of the others was better in some ways. We choose to marry a person, and that person somehow is great for us overall even if they are not perfect in some specifics. If your husband acts attracted to you and wants sex with you, then it is probably him being stupid when talking to buddies. Yes, it's horrible that he said this, and a smarter or more mature man would never say this even if he thought it. I would also be very hurt if I heard my wife say such things behind my back, and might not get over it for a long time - if at all. It depends a lot on context, and behavior aside from such candid comments.


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## Itwasjustafantasy

ad356 said:


> sad to hear it and at the very least he owes you a sincere apology. my wife gained some weight over the years but i would never ever insult her. i do not say mean things about her to my "buddies" which of i only have a few guys that i associate with regularly. when you marry someone your supposed to respect and honor them. saying that you arent attracted to your wife is not respect. my wife has her self esteem problems and complains about her weight. i tell her simply that loosing weight would be a positive for her health but i never ever go around and says she's fat or ugly. looks are skin deep and she is an amazingly sweet, kind hearted woman. i try to boost her self esteem tell her she is pretty, sexy, and that still love having sex with her. these things are all true she gained weight but she's still a pretty girl. i gained some myself over the years.
> 
> the point is i have enough respect not to say those things and i enjoy making her feel better about herself. let me tell you who she is far makes up for a few extra pound. who gives a damn about weight gain. allot of women are pretty on the outside but are actually nasty people on the inside. im glad i didnt fall for that trap.
> 
> i find things to say to my wife that make her feel good about herself. she has some of the most beautiful eyes i have ever seen, she has gorgeous thick, long hair, she has nice facial features and skin complextion. she does not need to wear makeup and is a naturally good looking woman.
> 
> he should pick out your best features and say something positive about how you look make you feel good about yourself. that's what a marriage is supposed to be. if he unfairly criticizes you he is just a poor husband. its cruel and unfair. women want to feel attractive and wanted by their spouses


What a caring, thoughtful and loving husband you are. When and if your wife ever decides to do something about her weight hopefully she will remember that you have been there all along being supportive and encouraging instead of shaming or putting her down. Change that comes from self loathing and shame can never be as rewarding. Just my opinion.


----------



## sokillme

It's absolutely wrong for him to talk with his friends like this. However, some guys just like to bust on other guys. It's possible it was like this. (though I will admit I am giving him a pretty big benefit of the doubt)

Friend: Well your wife is ugly and gives you bad sex
Him: Well she may be ugly and the sex might not be great, but at least I get some sex.

That is all just harsh put downs and may have no basis in reality. But I get that it hurts, you need to talk about this because it will eat away at your marriage. 

What he should have said is, my wife is out of bounds, and I am going to punch you in the head.

Now not blaming you for his bad behavior but to make an overall point. 

If you put on a large amount of weight (not talking 10 pounds here) that may cause a person to lose attraction and is not fair to your spouse. That still doesn't make it right that he was talking about it with his friend. 

One other point I want to make about the sex is, sexual chemistry is not static. It's like dancing it take practice and communication. Communication of which it seems you don't have. But if you can get to the point of having that communication it can be greatly improved. No one has to accept being stuck in a marriage without good sex in it. 

The big question is can you get over this. These types of hurts fester and cause doubt. If only people would protect there spouses from themselves.


----------



## Anon Pink

I would not ever give the benefit of doubt to my husband for saying something like this. 

This isn't something you come back from. This isn't something he can take back or redo or put in context or claim stupid male syndrome. This is a marriage killer and the only reason you're hesitating is because you loath the thought of having two failed marriages. You can't count your first marriage as a failure because it was doomed from the start.

I suggest you simply go about making your plans, finding a new place to live and then leaving. 

You don't come back from something like this. I don't suggest you even entertain the thought.


----------



## *Deidre*

I would just ask him, and just like you told us...simply say that you overheard it. Sorry.


----------



## karole

Anon Pink said:


> I would not ever give the benefit of doubt to my husband for saying something like this.
> 
> This isn't something you come back from. This isn't something he can take back or redo or put in context or claim stupid male syndrome. This is a marriage killer and the only reason you're hesitating is because you loath the thought of having two failed marriages. You can't count your first marriage as a failure because it was doomed from the start.
> 
> I suggest you simply go about making your plans, finding a new place to live and then leaving.
> 
> You don't come back from something like this. I don't suggest you even entertain the thought.


Amen Sister! Your words ring true! I would NEVER get over the comments he made were it me in her situation. Stick a fork in it, it's done.


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> *This is the kind of thing my wife says about me.* "ugly man"
> 
> At least she says it to my face and not behind my back.
> 
> I am NOT asking you to share your photograph with us.
> 
> But if you did, it is certain that a good percentage of folks on TAM would say: "Wow! She looks good!"
> 
> Your husband says you are unattractive and your husband's friend doesn't get any sex?
> 
> Yep! They are 30s going on early teens by the sounds of it.
> 
> I think you might need to tell him what you heard or risk letting it fester over time.


Here goes another "Blue Post" [from a Red State!] from me. 

Dear Prudes, do not read what I am going to post. Stop here.

Ah, Ooga. Ahhhhh OOOOOga!
.................................................................................................................................................................................................
"We are all pink on the inside".

Men say this about women [of all races], especially those that are not good looking. 

This is a horrible statement. It is misogynist. 

But that "pink" is below the neck.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................


We are grey between the ears. All of us. Brain Matter is grey. And with ~6 billion dudes and dames running and fluttering around, there are many shades of grey.


My point: 
@MattMatt, I think the pink part of you is very attractive.....unseen, Thank you. Provided the pink does not leach out to the surface. I do not like pinky males. Not my type.

But, Matt, your shade of grey is absolutely beautiful. I can judge from your copious posts, now over, what 12K?, that you are a nice shade of grey. A nice shade of grey flows out in your posts. 

Do you feel better?

Oh, do not envy Dorian Grey. On the surface, he was handsome as handsome.... is. The ladies swooned over him. Until he opened his mouth...and bats and flies flew out.

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

The Loonies [not from Hope's Canada] say that there is a Grey Race of men, living hidden and among us. 

I think, if they do exist...that they cannot flutch for the life of them. If they could, they would be reproducing like rabbits. They would be everywhere. Getting naked, and being grey, they would be invisible at night. No women would be safe, and many women would be carrying little grey ones, and bringing them to light. The census would reflect their true numbers.
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

This week I am going to Vegas. Maybe I can book a gig, be a real comedian. Nah, I fly in erratic circles, my dropped poop never lands on common minds.


----------



## lucy999

If my boyfriend said that about me, I would crumble in a heap of Tears. That was a horribly mean and disrespectful thing to say. I'm with the few others that say stick a fork in it. Because I could never ever trust anything he told me again about my appearance. It would ring Hollow for me. And I would always wonder what kind of smack he was talking about me to his friends. I would never be able to trust him again. I am so sorry you overheard that. Even more sorry that he said it.


----------



## Openminded

There are men (and women) who, for various reasons, marry someone they're not really attracted to. He's the only one who knows if what he said is actually true. Maybe he was just joking around and maybe not. Even if you discuss it with him (and you should) that doesn't mean you'll get the truth from him. 

What he said would be a deal-breaker for some but not for others. You have to decide what it is to you.


----------



## Sixlet

I'd probably cry if my husband said that about me to someone. I'd be too stunned and hurt to even be angry. No clue how I'd even address it because it seems so harsh and awful to consider.


----------



## Blondilocks

@SunCMars, admit it. You're a consultant on the tv series 'Legion'.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> @SunCMars, admit it. You're a consultant on the tv series 'Legion'.


Thank you, Dear!

I guess we are "on" good terms.......again.

......................................................................................................................................................................................

No, I suspect you are still.. Hera.

Forget not, my Dissociative Identity Disorder allows me to enter your voluptuous body via psycho-kinetic mind-melding. 

I Will. I execute Channeled Will: My Spirit entered that blond noggin, did the peeping Tom routine and discovered your Scoffing Deceit.

Thanks though. While there I saw some Desire. Actually, it was a book, "A Street Car Named Desire". 

I hope you find peace. I hope another man enters your life and gives you peace. I hope you give him the piece that is not spoiled by this life's buffeting wind.

..........................................................................................................................................

Side note:

When Frankenstein was asked who he was, he replied, "I am Legion, I am one of Many".

I am not One of many, I am many Ones.

My goal: to be, A "Man for all Seasons".

I am in my Winter Season. A Lion in Winter. The leopard is God's ultimate hunter and Cat. but a Leopard is too small for an Ego so large.


----------



## MEM2020

Quin,

I'm locking your thread. If you want it unlocked - PM me. I will be glad to unlock it if you plan to participate. 




quin said:


> ...but that he is with my because I'm a good wife and we get along well. Followed by, "Eh, it's ok, definitely have had better. Who am I to complain, some married folks don't get it at all. Like you (laughing)." Which I can easily assume was about our sex life. He didn't know I was home when he said it, he was talking online to one (or more) of his friends while playing a game. I don't know what's worse, hearing him say that or him saying it to his friend(s). I see his friends a few times a month and since his friends all blabber they probably all know that he thinks I'm ugly and suck at sex.
> 
> I have been with my husband for 2 years. He's a really attractive man. I have never felt ugly next to him but I don't feel like I'm as attractive as he is. I haven't had a lot of self-confidence issues until now. I was single for nearly a decade after getting divorced so maybe I should have...
> 
> My own husband doesn't find my attractive... Every time he's said I'm pretty, or beautiful, or sexy was a giant lie and makes everything feel like a lie. He settled for me... And what happens when someone better comes along... Now when he goes out I obsess over what he's doing, if there is someone at work he is more attracted to or... even just attracted to in general. I'm ugly and the sex sucks apparently so during does he think about someone else who he "definitely had better" sex with. Every time he glances at another woman or makes a comment about another woman's appearance it physically hurts. It didn't bother me before, everyone is attracted to other people. It bothers me now because he is attracted to all these women but not me.
> 
> My ex-husband felt the same and it makes me want to quit. He was only with me because he felt obligated to be with me, hooked up once and got pregnant. Now, my new husband settled for me because he was in his mid-30's, never married and wanted to settle down.
> 
> I feel stupid for not knowing and not figuring it out. Now I don't know where to go from here. Stay married to a man who isn't attracted to me or have two divorces and two broken families by 34?


----------



## quin

The first time I talked to my husband about it he tried to brush it off and said "Of course I'm attracted to you, I love you", kissed me and walked away like it was no big deal. Like he didn't rip my heart out when I heard that. I talked to him again about it because I wanted to know he said that and who he was talking to. He said he "didn't remember" who he was talking to. Yeah, right. He doesn't have that many friends, usually I can tell who he is talking to based on his tone. Close friends that he'd talk to like that, 4-5. The rest he has never talked to that way. 

We got into a fight about it and I asked him again if he was attracted to me. He said he isn't "not-attracted" to me. I asked him further and he basically said that he doesn't look at me and think I'm ugly or unattractive, but also doesn't look at me and think how sexy or pretty I am. So I don't do anything for him either way. He looked at me and thought "She'll do". I stupidly asked him if he's been more attracted to other women he's been with and he said yes, followed by excuses of how crazy they were, incompatible, etc., etc. I asked if he was happy with our sex life and he said no. But he's never said anything to me before... He said he isn't cheating but I don't know if I believe it... I really have no logical reason/proof to think he is.

Now he says we were fighting and he didn't mean it, that he's attracted to me, the sex is good, he's very happy. I think the only time he tells me the truth is when we're fighting. 

I went out and got a new hair cut, got highlights, had my eyebrows reshaped and lightened a bit, they did my make up while I was there as well, and when I walked in the door he didn't even notice. Still hasn't. It's quite obvious that I changed some things. I don't want to have sex with him at all but I tried initiating a few times over the last week and he's turned it down 4 out of 6 times. The 2 times he did agree to it he wasn't enthusiastic, the second time he said "we just did it yesterday [why do it again]". It lasted a couple minutes each time, afterwards he just got up and left. 

Every time he makes a comment about a woman's appearance (on TV, movie) or I see him glance at a woman in public it physically hurts. I get a painful, tingly feeling in my chest. 

He did apologize for saying it, if that's worth anything....


----------



## EleGirl

Have you considered doing some cheating to find out if he is cheating?

Are you thing of leaving this relationship?


----------



## quin

EleGirl said:


> Have you considered doing some cheating to find out if he is cheating?
> 
> Are you thing of leaving this relationship?


Did you mean "checking" instead of "cheating"? I don't want to ever cheat... I've looked through him phone, emails, facebook (I don't like admitting to that) and I haven't seen anything. No conversations with random women, only a couple with women I know and they were innocent. He 'likes' pictures of female friends on social media but that's it. He doesn't really had the time to cheat... He doesn't have unaccounted for time, doesn't hide his phone from me. 

We have been married for 2 years... 2 years and we're already at this point. If he doesn't want to be with me I can't force it, like my first husband it'll end when he's miserable being with me. History keeps repeating itself. I don't want to be with a man who isn't attracted to me and doesn't want to have sex/good sex but complains about it. I also don't want two divorces and two broken families before I'm 35... I don't even know if it's a good enough reason to divorce him... I'm a horrible role model for my teenager daughter.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> Have you considered doing some cheating to find out if he is cheating?
> 
> Are you thing of leaving this relationship?


Um you OK? Doing some cheating to find out if he is cheating?


----------



## EleGirl

quin said:


> Did you mean "checking" instead of "cheating"? I don't want to ever cheat... I've looked through him phone, emails, facebook (I don't like admitting to that) and I haven't seen anything. No conversations with random women, only a couple with women I know and they were innocent. He 'likes' pictures of female friends on social media but that's it. He doesn't really had the time to cheat... He doesn't have unaccounted for time, doesn't hide his phone from me.
> 
> We have been married for 2 years... 2 years and we're already at this point. If he doesn't want to be with me I can't force it, like my first husband it'll end when he's miserable being with me. History keeps repeating itself. I don't want to be with a man who isn't attracted to me and doesn't want to have sex/good sex but complains about it. I also don't want two divorces and two broken families before I'm 35... I don't even know if it's a good enough reason to divorce him... I'm a horrible role model for my teenager daughter.


I meant checking.... LOL sorry about that.

There is a book that might help you "Divorce Busting". If and when you read it, pay special attention to the chapter about changing things in the environment. It talks about doing a 180. It's not the 180 linked to in my signature block below (that one is for someone whose spouse is in an active affair). The 180 the book talks about is one that you would customize for yourself and your situation.

My bet I is that it's more about your husband being in an emotional slump than about how he really feels about you. Shaking things up in a good way could help. If you read the book, it might be best that he see you reading it... that helps the 180.


----------



## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> Um you OK? Doing some cheating to find out if he is cheating?


LOL... yikes... checking .... not cheating

been fighting with online banks and accounting/financial down loads most of the evening/night. I think I've lost my mind. >


----------



## emmasmith

Not Cheating!!!


----------



## SunCMars

quin said:


> The first time I talked to my husband about it he tried to brush it off and said "Of course I'm attracted to you, I love you", kissed me and walked away like it was no big deal. Like he didn't rip my heart out when I heard that. I talked to him again about it because I wanted to know he said that and who he was talking to. *He said he "didn't remember" who he was talking to*. Yeah, right. He doesn't have that many friends, usually I can tell who he is talking to based on his tone. Close friends that he'd talk to like that, 4-5. The rest he has never talked to that wday.
> 
> We got into a fight about it and I asked him again if he was attracted to me. *He said he isn't "not-attracted" to me*. I asked him further and he basically said that he doesn't look at me and think I'm ugly or unattractive, but also doesn't look at me and think how sexy or pretty I am. So *I don't do anything for him either way*. He looked at me and thought "She'll do". I stupidly asked him if he's been more attracted to other women he's been with and he said yes, followed by excuses of how crazy they were, incompatible, etc., etc. *I asked if he was happy with our sex life and he said no.* But he's never said anything to me before... He said he isn't cheating but I don't know if I believe it... I really have no logical reason/proof to think he is.
> 
> Now he says we were fighting and he didn't mean it, that he's attracted to me, the sex is good, he's very happy. I think the only time he tells me the truth is when we're fighting.
> 
> I went out and got a new hair cut, got highlights, had my eyebrows reshaped and lightened a bit, they did my make up while I was there as well, and *when I walked in the door he didn't even notice. *Still hasn't. It's quite obvious that I changed some things. I don't want to have sex with him at all but *I tried initiating a few times over the last week and he's turned it down 4 out of 6 times*. The 2 times he did agree to it he wasn't enthusiastic, the second time he said "we just did it yesterday [why do it again]". It lasted a couple minutes each time, afterwards he just got up and left.
> 
> Every time he makes a comment about a woman's appearance (on TV, movie) or I see him glance at a woman in public it physically hurts. I get a painful, tingly feeling in my chest.
> 
> He did apologize for saying it, if that's worth anything....


I wish I could wave a magic wand and make your husband love you. No one can. 
The police broke my last bottle of "Love Potion #9".

He is biding his time. 
He is in limbo, probably in a depressive state of mind.
He is not happy having sex with you. Why? No love, no passion.
He is weak. He cannot pull the trigger. Too passive. He is the living embodiment of Eeyore, the sad donkey.
Life is all about him and his woes.
You? You are "there". There, in his life. And there, in his way.
He is divorcing you......one slow drip at a time.

Prepare to leave "His Weak Kneed Lordship".


----------



## BetrayedDad

quin said:


> He's a really attractive man.


Maybe step 1 is getting him off the pedestal you have put him on. I can assure you some video gamer in his mid 30's is no "stud" by any stretch of the imagination. He married you because you are on his level. If someone as shallow as him could of married Kate Beckinsale, he would have. He married the prettiest girl who would give him the time of day, you. That's how losers like him think. He wasn't turning down models to be with you so please STOP with the self deprecating mentality. There's A GOOD REASON, he didn't settle down sooner. No one else wanted him. You are you're own worst enemy in this story. If you want to improve yourself, hit the gym but do it FOR YOU not for him. Do it to get your SELF CONFIDENCE back. You're a woman, it's far easier for you to replace him than vice versa. Remind him of that next time and happily offer a demonstration if her keeps talking sh!t about you.


----------



## quin

EleGirl said:


> I meant checking.... LOL sorry about that.
> 
> There is a book that might help you "Divorce Busting". If and when you read it, pay special attention to the chapter about changing things in the environment. It talks about doing a 180. It's not the 180 linked to in my signature block below (that one is for someone whose spouse is in an active affair). The 180 the book talks about is one that you would customize for yourself and your situation.
> 
> My bet I is that it's more about your husband being in an emotional slump than about how he really feels about you. Shaking things up in a good way could help. If you read the book, it might be best that he see you reading it... that helps the 180.


I'll buy that book and start reading it. Hopefully it's just a slump and this is fixable... I try to do things for him to make him happy or get some intimacy back and he doesn't appreciate it or ignores it. He complains about everything nothing that *I* do can make him happy. ie, if I cook a nice dinner all he does is complain about the dishes (that I do, he doesn't touch them) and/or how long it took me to make it. We took a trip to Niagara Falls, I had the whole trip planned it should have been really nice, all he did was complain about how long it took to get there, the weather, the food took to long, and on and on. If we go to a movie he *****es about someone in the audience, his drink, the food. Yet, if he goes to a movie with friends no complaints. We took a 18 hour road trip to a friends wedding, it was horrible, not a single complaint from his mouth. 

It wasn't always like that, obviously. Hopefully it's just a rut. Or he realized he hates being married, in general or to me.


----------



## quin

SunCMars said:


> I wish I could wave a magic wand and make your husband love you. No one can.
> The police broke my last bottle of "Love Potion #9".
> 
> He is biding his time.
> He is in limbo, probably in a depressive state of mind.
> He is not happy having sex with you. Why? No love, no passion.
> He is weak. He cannot pull the trigger. Too passive. He is the living embodiment of Eeyore, the sad donkey.
> Life is all about him and his woes.
> You? You are "there". There, in his life. And there, in his way.
> He is divorcing you......one slow drip at a time.
> 
> Prepare to leave "His Weak Kneed Lordship".


He's really quite happy when he's with his friends, family or even at home doing his own thing. As soon as he needs to do something with me it's like it's the most miserable thing in the world. I'm hoping it's a rut... I'm going to try and fix it. 

He doesn't like to kiss me anymore, cuddle, hug, etc. I don't remember the last time there was passion in our marriage. I keep trying and trying to get him to spend time with me, or just cuddle without barely touching me and staring at his phone. Hopefully changing things up will help... If not another divorce I guess...


----------



## quin

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe step 1 is getting him off the pedestal you have put him on. I can assure you some video gamer in his mid 30's is no "stud" by any stretch of the imagination. He married you because you are on his level. If someone as shallow as him could of married Kate Beckinsale, he would have. He married the prettiest girl who would give him the time of day, you. That's how losers like him think. He wasn't turning down models to be with you so please STOP with the self deprecating mentality. There's A GOOD REASON, he didn't settle down sooner. No one else wanted him. You are you're own worst enemy in this story. If you want to improve yourself, hit the gym but do it FOR YOU not for him. Do it to get your SELF CONFIDENCE back. You're a woman, it's far easier for you to replace him than vice versa. Remind him of that next time and happily offer a demonstration if her keeps talking sh!t about you.


He doesn't play video games that often. He use to play video games in every free moment he had. Now, more like once a week with friends. He doesn't have time and (thankfully) his friends gave that up as they married, had kids, etc. 

Maybe you're right, about him not marrying until his mid-30's. He's had a lot of girlfriends, lasting a few months to a couple years. They always break up for one reason or another. He always said he didn't meet the right person and didn't want to marry the wrong one. Or maybe I was the only person stupid enough to marry him.


----------



## MEM2020

This likely isn't a rut. 

Lack of sexual attraction plus general irritableness around you = he's just not that into you





quin said:


> He's really quite happy when he's with his friends, family or even at home doing his own thing. As soon as he needs to do something with me it's like it's the most miserable thing in the world. I'm hoping it's a rut... I'm going to try and fix it.
> 
> He doesn't like to kiss me anymore, cuddle, hug, etc. I don't remember the last time there was passion in our marriage. I keep trying and trying to get him to spend time with me, or just cuddle without barely touching me and staring at his phone. Hopefully changing things up will help... If not another divorce I guess...


----------



## 2ndHandRose

No real advice for you but you have my sympathy. My ex husband told me right before he left me that he wasn't attracted to me anymore and hadn't been for a while. Left me for a ditzy blonde 10 years younger than me.

Lately I'm beginning to wonder if my current fiancé is attracted to me either or if he's just settling because he's not getting any younger and his health is starting to fail so he doesn't want to be alone anymore.


----------



## SunCMars

quin said:


> He's really quite happy when he's with his friends, family or even at home doing his own thing. As soon as he needs to do something with me it's like it's the most miserable thing in the world. I'm hoping it'hing a rut... I'm going to try and fix it.
> 
> He doesn't like to kiss me anymore, cuddle, hug, etc. I don't remember the last time there was passion in our marriage. I keep trying and trying to get him to spend time with me, or just cuddle without barely touching me and staring at his phone. Hopefully changing things up will help... If not another divorce I guess...


Two things:

Put a recorder in the same room that he and his buddy is in. Put a recorder on the phone...landline?
Keep it there continuously.

Watch his hands. Something is getting him off. 

Could it be porn, a women or a man?

Men never turn down sex unless they hate the women. Or, they have no spunk left in the toothpaste tube. Or they are truly low desire....unlikely this.


----------



## quin

MEM2020 said:


> This likely isn't a rut.
> 
> Lack of sexual attraction plus general irritableness around you = he's just not that into you


Is there anything I can do to change that? He had to have been into me at some point...  He married me, and we use to be happy..


----------



## Blondilocks

What can do you do to fix it? His general unhappiness is not yours to fix. Stop fixating on him and start fixating on yourself. This is your life - if he wants to come along, fine. If not, let him be his unhappy self all by himself. Stop chasing him, stop initiating sex, stop cooking him nice meals which he doesn't appreciate. Just stop and let him be. Set yourself a time limit for how long you're willing to wait for him to join you in your life. Then carefully consider if you want him along for your ride. Frankly, he sounds like a real downer. Let him go depress someone else.


----------



## quin

2ndHandRose said:


> No real advice for you but you have my sympathy. My ex husband told me right before he left me that he wasn't attracted to me anymore and hadn't been for a while. Left me for a ditzy blonde 10 years younger than me.
> 
> Lately I'm beginning to wonder if my current fiancé is attracted to me either or if he's just settling because he's not getting any younger and his health is starting to fail so he doesn't want to be alone anymore.


I worry about that a lot... him leaving me for someone else. I sometimes wonder if he's found someone else or cheating. He really doesn't have time to cheat and doesn't disappear or hide his phone/computer/tablet from me. He's always dated younger women. I'm a bit younger than he is, but he's had girlfriends younger than me. I know that he finds younger women attractive...


----------



## quin

SunCMars said:


> Two things:
> 
> Put a recorder in the same room that he and his buddy is in. Put a recorder on the phone...landline?
> Keep it there continuously.
> 
> Watch his hands. Something is getting him off.
> 
> Could it be porn, a women or a man?
> 
> Men never turn down sex unless they hate the women. Or, they have no spunk left in the toothpaste tube. Or they are truly low desire....unlikely this.


He's always had a high sex drive. His sex drive (with me) is unrecognizable. He says he's not in the mood. I just asked him often he watches porn and he said "not enough". Followed by "once or twice a week, I don't know" when I asked him to be serious. Even if that's all he watches, he's still choosing that over me. I can get naked and throw myself at him and he doesn't take it. He will never talk to me about sex things (fantasies, fetishes, even just things he'd like to try). He won't say what kind of porn he likes or ever watch it with me, which I'm not really into but at this point I'd try anything. Maybe he's hiding something that way... I don't know. 

I feel bad with the idea of recording his conversations. I've read that spouses put recorders in their car under the seat, hidden in the house, tap their cell phone, etc. If he isn't cheating and he finds that out, that will surely end the marriage...


----------



## quin

Blondilocks said:


> What can do you do to fix it? His general unhappiness is not yours to fix. Stop fixating on him and start fixating on yourself. This is your life - if he wants to come along, fine. If not, let him be his unhappy self all by himself. Stop chasing him, stop initiating sex, stop cooking him nice meals which he doesn't appreciate. Just stop and let him be. Set yourself a time limit for how long you're willing to wait for him to join you in your life. Then carefully consider if you want him along for your ride. Frankly, he sounds like a real downer. Let him go depress someone else.


I'm scared of what will happen if he doesn't "join me in my life". There have been days that I haven't cooked dinner for him, just me and the kids, or leave the house without him. He rarely seems to care, when he does care he makes me feel bad and I make something for him.

A second divorce shouldn't seem worse than living this way... He has no respect for me anymore. I mean, he went and got a vasectomy without even talking to me about it or telling me. He came home one day and said he got snipped that morning, and I turned into his nurse while he complained about it and I tried to process what just happened.


----------



## Yeswecan

quin said:


> He's always had a high sex drive. His sex drive (with me) is unrecognizable. He says he's not in the mood. I just asked him often he watches porn and he said "not enough". Followed by "once or twice a week, I don't know" when I asked him to be serious. Even if that's all he watches, he's still choosing that over me. I can get naked and throw myself at him and he doesn't take it. He will never talk to me about sex things (fantasies, fetishes, even just things he'd like to try). He won't say what kind of porn he likes or ever watch it with me, which I'm not really into but at this point I'd try anything. Maybe he's hiding something that way... I don't know.
> 
> I feel bad with the idea of recording his conversations. I've read that spouses put recorders in their car under the seat, hidden in the house, tap their cell phone, etc. If he isn't cheating and he finds that out, that will surely end the marriage...


It is the porn. Needs to go. Probably self satisfying. Do the math.


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## SunCMars

quin said:


> He's always had a high sex drive. His sex drive (with me) is unrecognizable. He says he's not in the mood. I just asked him often he watches porn and he said "not enough". Followed by "once or twice a week, I don't know" when I asked him to be serious. Even if that's all he watches, he's still choosing that over me. I can get naked and throw myself at him and he doesn't take it. He will never talk to me about sex things (fantasies, fetishes, even just things he'd like to try). He won't say what kind of porn he likes or ever watch it with me, which I'm not really into but at this point I'd try anything. Maybe he's hiding something that way... I don't know.
> 
> I feel bad with the idea of recording his conversations. I've read that spouses put recorders in their car under the seat, hidden in the house, tap their cell phone, etc. *If he isn't cheating and he finds that out, that will surely end the marriage.*..


Quin, as it stands today, the marriage IS OVER; for you.

He is cheating. He is cheating you out of intimacy and companionship.

You need the truth. You do, so that you can finally know that "truth". You already know how he feels about you. I guess you need to hear it again....stubborn you.

Only then, can you make a mature decision...for your sake, not his.

Yes, he is watching porn. He is draining himself. He leaves none for you. That is cheating. 

What a guy! Not.

You cannot fix this unless he participates. He is not interested.

Sorry.


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## quin

Yeswecan said:


> It is the porn. Needs to go. Probably self satisfying. Do the math.


How do I get him to stop watching porn? I suppose if I ask him to, to save our marriage, and he refuses then there's my answer on whether he wants to stay married. He has said in the past that it's stupid for women to ask their husband not to watch porn and it makes them insecure.


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## quin

SunCMars said:


> Quin, as it stands today, the marriage IS OVER; for you.
> 
> He is cheating. He is cheating you out of intimacy and companionship.
> 
> You need the truth. You do, so that you can finally know that "truth". You already know how he feels about you. I guess you need to hear it again....stubborn you.
> 
> Only then, can you make a mature decision...for your sake, not his.
> 
> Yes, he is watching porn. He is draining himself. He leaves none for you. That is cheating.
> 
> What a guy! Not.
> 
> You cannot fix this unless he participates. He is not interested.
> 
> Sorry.


I don't want to be that stupid spouse that has 101 red flags and ignores them all. Or the person who posts asking for help and ignores it all, or gets mad and leaves. I don't want to be in denial... 

Is there a way to track his incognito tabs? I'll look it up... He often has incognito tabs open on his computer and I hear some quick clicks when I go into the room. I know he watches porn that way, his reasoning was so it doesn't pop up when he's typing something else in. 

You're right that I can do everything under the sun to try and make this marriage work, but if he's not willing to participate it's not going to do squat. I feel so stupid for doing this twice... and for ruining two families and kids lives. I should have learned better the first time around...


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## Keke24

quin said:


> Is there a way to track his incognito tabs? I'll look it up... He often has incognito tabs open on his computer and I hear some quick clicks when I go into the room. I know he watches porn that way, his reasoning was so it doesn't pop up when he's typing something else in.


You could use keylogger software.


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## MEM2020

This sounds a lot more like an issue of respect. Or a lack of respect. 

The desire thing - could also be a real factor. 

I used to think it was mainly women who married men for their provider/parenting skills. That just isn't true. 

Men do the same thing sometimes.





quin said:


> How do I get him to stop watching porn? I suppose if I ask him to, to save our marriage, and he refuses then there's my answer on whether he wants to stay married. He has said in the past that it's stupid for women to ask their husband not to watch porn and it makes them insecure.


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## Cynthia

If things were good and have gone south, something has obviously changed. Do you think his porn use has increased? Porn use can cause men to be dissatisfied with their wives. 

Frankly, it sounds like your husband is an inconsiderate man and he is mistreating you. I recommend stop chasing him. That isn't going to help. Likely it will make matters worse. If he already said he's not particularly attracted to you, chasing him will lower your attractiveness. It puts you in a weak position.

Anything that you do has to be for your own personal health and well-being, not in order to try to get him to love you again. However, you can do things to improve your marriage and how you live your personal life that may have the added bonus of correcting some marriage problems. The focus should be on growing as a person and identifying and overcoming dysfunction. If he wants to join you, great, if not you are going to be okay.

We all do the best that we can. Of course you want to have a happy successful marriage, but that takes two committed, loving people. It takes one to destroy a marriage, but two to make a successful marriage.


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## sokillme

You should talk to this guy. That was a joke not right now at least.


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## notmyrealname4

quin said:


> or have two divorces and two broken families by 34?



Run for the hills and never look back. He doesn't value or respect you. You are his soft place to land in a harsh world.

He should sing your praises to his friends and discuss problems with you and you alone.


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## Yeswecan

quin said:


> How do I get him to stop watching porn? I suppose if I ask him to, to save our marriage, and he refuses then there's my answer on whether he wants to stay married. He has said in the past that it's stupid for women to ask their husband not to watch porn and it makes them insecure.


Get to the bottom of it. Ask your H how much does he watch. There is such a thing as addiction to porn. If it appears he is addicted and self satisfying. Advise he needs professional help. Further, advise the porn hurts you(if it does). Porn watching is not good from many marriages. For other it does not matter. It is not stupid for a W to ask her H to stop watching porn. It lowers self-esteem. H start to expect W to be a porn star. 

Tell ya what. Sit on the couch one night and order up a video of Johnny Wad and get some popcorn. Advise your H it is stupid to ask a W to not watch porn. I bet you will get a reaction. 

Your H is addicted to porn. I bet he is self satisfying.


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## lucy999

quin said:


> A second divorce shouldn't seem worse than living this way... He has no respect for me anymore. I mean, he went and got a vasectomy without even talking to me about it or telling me. He came home one day and said he got snipped that morning, and I turned into his nurse while he complained about it and I tried to process what just happened.


I realize there are other issues in your marriage, but this right here would have me rethinking the whole marriage. You're right. He doesn't respect you. This is a major life decision that should be made together.


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## dianaelaine59

quin said:


> He's always had a high sex drive. His sex drive (with me) is unrecognizable. He says he's not in the mood. I just asked him often he watches porn and he said "not enough". Followed by "once or twice a week, I don't know" when I asked him to be serious. Even if that's all he watches, he's still choosing that over me. I can get naked and throw myself at him and he doesn't take it. He will never talk to me about sex things (fantasies, fetishes, even just things he'd like to try). He won't say what kind of porn he likes or ever watch it with me, which I'm not really into but at this point I'd try anything. Maybe he's hiding something that way... I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel bad with the idea of recording his conversations. I've read that spouses put recorders in their car under the seat, hidden in the house, tap their cell phone, etc. If he isn't cheating and he finds that out, that will surely end the marriage...



When you asked him how often he watches porn and he said "not enough " ..... LOW BLOW!!!



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## dianaelaine59

quin said:


> I'm scared of what will happen if he doesn't "join me in my life". There have been days that I haven't cooked dinner for him, just me and the kids, or leave the house without him. He rarely seems to care, when he does care he makes me feel bad and I make something for him.
> 
> 
> 
> A second divorce shouldn't seem worse than living this way... He has no respect for me anymore. I mean, he went and got a vasectomy without even talking to me about it or telling me. He came home one day and said he got snipped that morning, and I turned into his nurse while he complained about it and I tried to process what just happened.




Umm .... what??? He had a vasectomy without discussing it with you???? 

I don't Think So!!!!!

That's like REALLY NOT GOOD!!! Asinine even!


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## Saibasu

I have no advice. But your husband is a ****ing *******.


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## 225985

dianaelaine59 said:


> Umm .... what??? He had a vasectomy without discussing it with you????
> 
> I don't Think So!!!!!
> 
> That's like REALLY NOT GOOD!!! Asinine even!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




A man has a right to control his body and right to birth control just like a woman does.


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## MJJEAN

Yeswecan said:


> Get to the bottom of it. Ask your H how much does he watch. There is such a thing as addiction to porn. If it appears he is addicted and self satisfying. Advise he needs professional help. Further, advise the porn hurts you(if it does). Porn watching is not good from many marriages. For other it does not matter. It is not stupid for a W to ask her H to stop watching porn. It lowers self-esteem. H start to expect W to be a porn star.
> 
> Tell ya what. Sit on the couch one night and order up a video of Johnny Wad and get some popcorn. Advise your H it is stupid to ask a W to not watch porn. I bet you will get a reaction.
> 
> Your H is addicted to porn. I bet he is self satisfying.


Chicken or the egg. Is he watching porn and (presumably) masturbating because he isn't attracted to @quin and would rather see to his own needs or is he not attracted to Quin because of the porn? 

When I was an adolescent, I never masturbated. I didn't need to. By the time I experienced arousal and wanted sex I was old enough and social enough that there wasn't a shortage of available partners. Long story, but I married a man I wasn't in love with and my level of sexual attraction to him was "meh". As most regulars here know, I had multiple affairs. (So did he.) After a few years, if I was without an AP, I got to the point where I started masturbating because it was that or have sex with exH.
@quin, believe his actions and his words. He's not into you. He just isn't. I can't say if the porn is the problem or if it's something else, but I'd be watchful were I you. He decided to have that vasectomy for a reason. If it was all on the up and up, he'd have discussed it with you first. That's what married people do when making life altering choices. He didn't. I have to wonder if he got himself sterilized because he is either cheating or hoping to be cheating and wants to avoid accidentally getting an AP pregnant and all the subsequent drama and financial liability that entails.


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## dianaelaine59

blueinbr said:


> A man has a right to control his body and right to birth control just like a woman does.




Ummmm that has nothing to do with what he did, he did this without even discussing it with her, she's his wife!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dianaelaine59

MJJEAN said:


> Chicken or the egg. Is he watching porn and (presumably) masturbating because he isn't attracted to @quin and would rather see to his own needs or is he not attracted to Quin because of the porn?
> 
> 
> 
> When I was an adolescent, I never masturbated. I didn't need to. By the time I experienced arousal and wanted sex I was old enough and social enough that there wasn't a shortage of available partners. Long story, but I married a man I wasn't in love with and my level of sexual attraction to him was "meh". As most regulars here know, I had multiple affairs. (So did he.) After a few years, if I was without an AP, I got to the point where I started masturbating because it was that or have sex with exH.
> 
> 
> @quin, believe his actions and his words. He's not into you. He just isn't. I can't say if the porn is the problem or if it's something else, but I'd be watchful were I you. He decided to have that vasectomy for a reason. If it was all on the up and up, he'd have discussed it with you first. That's what married people do when making life altering choices. He didn't. I have to wonder if he got himself sterilized because he is either cheating or hoping to be cheating and wants to avoid accidentally getting an AP pregnant and all the subsequent drama and financial liability that entails.




That's absolutely what I was thinking, if he did this without discussing it with her, he did it for a reason. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## quin

MEM2020 said:


> This sounds a lot more like an issue of respect. Or a lack of respect.
> 
> The desire thing - could also be a real factor.
> 
> I used to think it was mainly women who married men for their provider/parenting skills. That just isn't true.
> 
> Men do the same thing sometimes.


Even if he just didn't respect me at all, wouldn't he still want to have sex? He use to want sex 3x a day... In the morning, when we got into bed and in the middle of the night. Having kids kind of screwed that up for him but he still got oral. I've tried to block it out because it hurt horribly, but he wasn't attracted to me when I was pregnant. He straight out said it when I asked him. He isn't attracted to pregnant bodies, which fair enough I guess, but that flushed my self-esteem down the toilet. When we do have sex he acts like he's doing me a favor. There is no foreplay, just sticks it in, lasts a few seconds to a couple minutes and gets up and leaves or rolls over and stares at his phone. 

When we got together he was mid-30's, wanted kids but didn't want them after 40. I gave him his kids and now it's like he's done... I'm just being an idiot here... And repeating history.


----------



## quin

CynthiaDe said:


> If things were good and have gone south, something has obviously changed. Do you think his porn use has increased? Porn use can cause men to be dissatisfied with their wives.
> 
> Frankly, it sounds like your husband is an inconsiderate man and he is mistreating you. I recommend stop chasing him. That isn't going to help. Likely it will make matters worse. If he already said he's not particularly attracted to you, chasing him will lower your attractiveness. It puts you in a weak position.
> 
> Anything that you do has to be for your own personal health and well-being, not in order to try to get him to love you again. However, you can do things to improve your marriage and how you live your personal life that may have the added bonus of correcting some marriage problems. The focus should be on growing as a person and identifying and overcoming dysfunction. If he wants to join you, great, if not you are going to be okay.
> 
> We all do the best that we can. Of course you want to have a happy successful marriage, but that takes two committed, loving people. It takes one to destroy a marriage, but two to make a successful marriage.


There are no clear signs that his porn use has increased. He doesn't seem to spend more time hidden on his computer. He says our sex life sucks and will never talk to me about it and it makes me think he is hiding something that he likes and wants to do. Which kind of freaks me out because if he won't talk to me about it, what the heck is it. Or he prefers porn and is addicted. Or he's getting those needs met elsewhere... 

I've read that constantly chasing him can come off as being desperate and less attractive. I guess I need to stop that... I don't want to feel like I've given up and if the marriage fails that it's my fault. I wanted a happy marriage. I want my kids to have their parents together and have the family that my first didn't. I want my older daughter to see a good marriage rather than a string of failed ones. I feel like I'm setting her up for failure. This isn't a good example either though.


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## quin

sokillme said:


> You should talk to this guy. That was a joke not right now at least.


I briefly read it... that's even worse than my husband. At least he tries to hide it... I don't know how I'd cope if he talked to me that way. My heart hurt reading that.


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## quin

lucy999 said:


> I realize there are other issues in your marriage, but this right here would have me rethinking the whole marriage. You're right. He doesn't respect you. This is a major life decision that should be made together.


I agree, we should have made the decision together. When we met he said he didn't want kids after 40, but earlier in his life he said he didn't want them after 30 and that clearly had to change. He'll be 40 this year. When we had the vasectomy we had a 18 month old and 6 month old, my daughter was with her dad for the summer. I was completely exhausted as it was and he turned into my 3rd child. Complaining about everything, needing ice for his balls. Taking significantly longer to get over it than he needed. Expecting me to wait on him hand and foot, and take care of our kids without him lifting a finger. He didn't talk to me about it at all, he didn't even hint about it... 

I could maybe, sort of understand if he had wanted it and I wasn't on board but he was done having kids. He didn't even bring it up. Kids weren't on my mind at all, and I always thought I wouldn't want them after 35 but he didn't even bring it up. That day he even lied and said he was going to a business meeting in a different town. He didn't tell me until he was laying on the couch icing his balls by saying 'Oh yeah, got snipped today". Like it was a ****ing hair cut... He used the excuse that *I* can't handle anymore kids, a decision he made when I had a 1 year old, newborn and rebellious teenager with her first boyfriend.


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## quin

blueinbr said:


> A man has a right to control his body and right to birth control just like a woman does.


I agree with this as well. I don't think children should be brought into the world if both parents don't want them, learned that the hard way. He chose a permanent decision without even discussing it though. I could have been ok with it, but he didn't even give me a chance to discuss it or hear him out.


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## quin

Yeswecan said:


> Get to the bottom of it. Ask your H how much does he watch. There is such a thing as addiction to porn. If it appears he is addicted and self satisfying. Advise he needs professional help. Further, advise the porn hurts you(if it does). Porn watching is not good from many marriages. For other it does not matter. It is not stupid for a W to ask her H to stop watching porn. It lowers self-esteem. H start to expect W to be a porn star.
> 
> Tell ya what. Sit on the couch one night and order up a video of Johnny Wad and get some popcorn. Advise your H it is stupid to ask a W to not watch porn. I bet you will get a reaction.
> 
> Your H is addicted to porn. I bet he is self satisfying.


I have asked him but I don't think he is telling me the truth. He either says he doesn't know, pretends he didn't hear me or gives me a number (1-2x a week) but his tone and body language show he's uncomfortable. He could be uncomfortable just because I'm asking. Porn doesn't really bother me, unless it's affecting our marriage and it could be. I don't get insecure or jealous about it. Sometimes he'll come out of his office, go to the bathroom and wash his hands then leave. Pretty sure that is right after masturbating. I've never counted how often he does that, maybe I should...

(I googled a video of that... Jesus Christ he was hung.)


----------



## TX-SC

I just read your post and it just about made me want to cry, and that's a rarity for me! I'm so sad that your husband doesn't appreciate you. That must be a very lonely feeling.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## quin

MJJEAN said:


> Chicken or the egg. Is he watching porn and (presumably) masturbating because he isn't attracted to @quin and would rather see to his own needs or is he not attracted to Quin because of the porn?
> 
> When I was an adolescent, I never masturbated. I didn't need to. By the time I experienced arousal and wanted sex I was old enough and social enough that there wasn't a shortage of available partners. Long story, but I married a man I wasn't in love with and my level of sexual attraction to him was "meh". As most regulars here know, I had multiple affairs. (So did he.) After a few years, if I was without an AP, I got to the point where I started masturbating because it was that or have sex with exH.
> 
> @quin, believe his actions and his words. He's not into you. He just isn't. I can't say if the porn is the problem or if it's something else, but I'd be watchful were I you. He decided to have that vasectomy for a reason. If it was all on the up and up, he'd have discussed it with you first. That's what married people do when making life altering choices. He didn't. I have to wonder if he got himself sterilized because he is either cheating or hoping to be cheating and wants to avoid accidentally getting an AP pregnant and all the subsequent drama and financial liability that entails.


I don't want him to think that way about me. Reading that hurt a bit. I'm not the sexiest thing in the world, but I didn't think I was so unattractive that he'd rather no sex. My ex-husband at least had the decency to tell me early on that he wasn't attracted to me and we only married for our daughter. He at least tried to make it work... I never thought I'd "miss" my first marriage. 

I didn't think of that as a possible reason for him to get a vasectomy... He's never liked condoms, he said they were too tight. Maybe I should be getting an STD test done on myself... I've never had one done... I haven't needed to.


----------



## MJJEAN

quin said:


> I don't want him to think that way about me. Reading that hurt a bit. I'm not the sexiest thing in the world, but I didn't think I was so unattractive that he'd rather no sex. My ex-husband at least had the decency to tell me early on that he wasn't attracted to me and we only married for our daughter. He at least tried to make it work... I never thought I'd "miss" my first marriage.
> 
> I didn't think of that as a possible reason for him to get a vasectomy... He's never liked condoms, he said they were too tight. Maybe I should be getting an STD test done on myself... I've never had one done... I haven't needed to.


Sexual attraction isn't all about appearance. There's also a physical, chemical, component. Most people would call it a "spark" or "chemistry". It's something we can't control. It's is either there or not. 

I may not have been physically, sexually, attracted to my exH, but other women were. There are men out there who would find you sexually attractive. 

Your husband says he's not attracted to you. He backs that statement up with actions. Life is finite and often far too short. How much time are you going to waste on a man who isn't into you?


----------



## quin

TX-SC said:


> I just read your post and it just about made me want to cry, and that's a rarity for me! I'm so sad that your husband doesn't appreciate you. That must be a very lonely feeling.


I hate feeling alone when he's sitting or laying right next to me. That feeling happens too often.


----------



## quin

MJJEAN said:


> Sexual attraction isn't all about appearance. There's also a physical, chemical, component. Most people would call it a "spark" or "chemistry". It's something we can't control. It's is either there or not.
> 
> I may not have been physically, sexually, attracted to my exH, but other women were. There are men out there who would find you sexually attractive.
> 
> Your husband says he's not attracted to you. He backs that statement up with actions. Life is finite and often far too short. How much time are you going to waste on a man who isn't into you?


I don't want to waste my life with (another) man who isn't into me and doesn't really want to be with me. I'm having trouble pulling the plug. I know women who have gotten divorced (or stayed together) for much "worse" reasons. He has only said it when we're fighting and he apologizes immediately after, but he's said we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids. Which is the exact same as my ex-husband. It makes me feel like I'm only useful as an incubator. 

I don't know how I ended up marrying two men who aren't attracted to me. That's on me and something I have to figure out, probably with a shrink. 

Do I talk to him and give him one last chance before just leaving? He can't fix attraction, unless there is something I can change maybe... Maybe there is a different underlying reason that I can fix. We have young babies and that makes it harder to walk away. With my first divorce, I knew it was coming but I let my ex-husband initiate the divorce. I gave him an out and waited, I was 19 didn't know how to handle it. Now I'm a grown ass adult and I still don't know how to handle it, and I don't have my parents there to walk me through it and hold my hand.


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## Daisy12

quin said:


> I want my older daughter to see a good marriage rather than a string of failed ones. I feel like I'm setting her up for failure. This isn't a good example either though.


What you should be more concerned about is having your daughter see a strong confidant woman who will not be abused, neglected or disregared physical or emotionally by anyone. Right now you are teaching her that it's ok to let a man abuse you in order to hold on to a marriage that by your own words, sucks. Stand up to your husband and demand the respect you deserve so your own daughter doesn't think this is how a man should treat a woman. Help her not continue the cycle and marry a man like that. 

Show your daughter that it's ok to be alone and if this marriage fails, don't jump into another one so fast. Be alone and show your kids that you don't need a man to complete you and that your own self worth and integrity is more important than having a man.

You don't bend your own self worth or integrity in order to be with someone. Making that kind of sacrifice for a relationship never has a good outcome. You deserve better and keep telling yourself that everyday. 

I wish you all the best, my heart goes out to you as I know how hard of a decision you have to make.


----------



## quin

Daisy12 said:


> What you should be more concerned about is having your daughter see a strong confidant woman who will not be abused, neglected or disregared physical or emotionally by anyone. Right now you are teaching her that it's ok to let a man abuse you in order to hold on to a marriage that by your own words, sucks. Stand up to your husband and demand the respect you deserve so your own daughter doesn't think this is how a man should treat a woman. Help her not continue the cycle and marry a man like that.
> 
> Show your daughter that it's ok to be alone and if this marriage fails, don't jump into another one so fast. Be alone and show your kids that you don't need a man to complete you and that your own self worth and integrity is more important than having a man.
> 
> You don't bend your own self worth or integrity in order to be with someone. Making that kind of sacrifice for a relationship never has a good outcome. You deserve better and keep telling yourself that everyday.
> 
> I wish you all the best, my heart goes out to you as I know how hard of a decision you have to make.


I was single for 6 years following my first divorce, 9 before things got serious with my husband. And we definitely didn't rush into marriage. I don't think I rushed into dating. I was happy being alone and raising my daughter. I was more happy then than I am now. Which is sad because I always wanted to find another relationship but it took me a long time to be ready. I can be happy alone, I was happy. It's the intimacy that I missed, I thrive on physical intimacy. Which I'm not getting anyway, so... I can't see myself dating again, not for a long, long time. 

You're right though, it's better that my daughter sees me leave an(other) unhappy marriage than watch me stay in one and learn that's how she should be treated. She has her first boyfriend now :crying: and I don't want her to end up where I am or where I have been.


----------



## Blondilocks

Blondilocks said:


> What can do you do to fix it? His general unhappiness is not yours to fix. Stop fixating on him and start fixating on yourself. This is your life - if he wants to come along, fine. If not, let him be his unhappy self all by himself. Stop chasing him, stop initiating sex, stop cooking him nice meals which he doesn't appreciate. Just stop and let him be. Set yourself a time limit for how long you're willing to wait for him to join you in your life. Then carefully consider if you want him along for your ride. Frankly, he sounds like a real downer. Let him go depress someone else.


Yeah, I'm quoting myself.

The above will allow you to emotionally detach and at the same time put him on notice that there's a new sheriff in town. If/when it's time to pull the plug, you will be stronger and able to do what is necessary for you and your children.

BTW, should he try to make you feel guilty about not cooking or doing laundry for him, tell him he knows where the kitchen and laundry room are. Do not give in to him.


----------



## quin

Blondilocks said:


> Yeah, I'm quoting myself.
> 
> The above will allow you to emotionally detach and at the same time put him on notice that there's a new sheriff in town. If/when it's time to pull the plug, you will be stronger and able to do what is necessary for you and your children.
> 
> BTW, should he try to make you feel guilty about not cooking or doing laundry for him, tell him he knows where the kitchen and laundry room are. Do not give in to him.


How long do I let that go on? We've had some rough patches were I didn't cook for him, didn't clean his messes, didn't get his work stuff ready, didn't do his laundry. He makes me feel like **** every time. I've said that line, "You know where the X is" but then he just goes without and *****es to me about it. He gets more mad and says I'm being immature. 

-If I didn't make him dinner he either went without and then said he couldn't help me because he was hungry. Or he made dinner and left a mess that I had to clean up or leave. 
-If I left the mess it sat for days, literally until there was mold on a dish. He *****ed at me for leaving it there and denied it was his.
-He'll wear the same outfit for days rather than do laundry. I don't even know if he can run a washing machine. He could when we first met but he seems to have amnesia about that. *****es to me that he has no clothes, that I sorted his clothes out from the rest is immature, that now we can't go out because he has no clean clothes. 
-And on and on. 

I can't believe I'm married to him... We were together for 4 years before we married, none of this was ever an issue. As soon as the kids were out, so was he...


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## Blondilocks

quin said:


> How long do I let that go on? We've had some rough patches were I didn't cook for him, didn't clean his messes, didn't get his work stuff ready, didn't do his laundry. He makes me feel like **** every time. I've said that line, "You know where the X is" but then he just goes without and *****es to me about it. He gets more mad and says I'm being immature.
> 
> -If I didn't make him dinner he either went without and then said he couldn't help me because he was hungry. Or he made dinner and left a mess that I had to clean up or leave.
> -If I left the mess it sat for days, literally until there was mold on a dish. He *****ed at me for leaving it there and denied it was his.
> -He'll wear the same outfit for days rather than do laundry. I don't even know if he can run a washing machine. He could when we first met but he seems to have amnesia about that. *****es to me that he has no clothes, that I sorted his clothes out from the rest is immature, that now we can't go out because he has no clean clothes.
> -And on and on.
> 
> I can't believe I'm married to him... We were together for 4 years before we married, none of this was ever an issue. As soon as the kids were out, so was he...


How long do you let it go on? Depends on your tolerance level. Six months is a good, off-the-wall number. Tell him that roommates don't usually do one another's laundry or prepare meals. That is what your marriage has turned into - an arrangement of roommates and this arrangement no longer suits you. Buy a bunch of paper plates and plastic utensils. When he complains, ignore him. Take the kids and go to a movie or the park or anywhere away from him. You've given him all the power in this marriage - take back your power.


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## quin

Well my husband was bathing our kids and I heard him say "When we divorce who do you want to live with, mommy or daddy?". To ****ing toddlers!? Of course the response was me. Which means nothing, they have no idea what that means. Just the fact that he would say that though... gets my blood boiling. 

I guess that answers what he's feeling. Now he's out at a friends bachelor party. Said friend is having a destination wedding and we decided that we were NOT going to go because it was too expensive. We were looking at $4000 for the two of us to go or $5800 for the 4 of us to go. He said he didn't want to go by himself because he'd feel bad and would rather spend the $2000 on a family trip. Right before he left he dropped the bomb that he is going to go. No discussion, just that he's going.


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## Vega

quin said:


> Well my husband was bathing our kids and I heard him say "When we divorce who do you want to live with, mommy or daddy?". To ****ing toddlers!? Of course the response was me. Which means nothing, they have no idea what that means. Just the fact that he would say that though... gets my blood boiling.
> 
> I guess that answers what he's feeling. Now he's out at a friends bachelor party. Said friend is having a destination wedding and we decided that we were NOT going to go because it was too expensive. We were looking at $4000 for the two of us to go or $5800 for the 4 of us to go. He said he didn't want to go by himself because he'd feel bad and would rather spend the $2000 on a family trip. Right before he left he dropped the bomb that he is going to go. No discussion, just that he's going.


I would take the kids and be_ permanently _gone before he gets back...

No discussion. Just go. Just like _he_ did...


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## hifromme67

quin said:


> Well my husband was bathing our kids and I heard him say "When we divorce who do you want to live with, mommy or daddy?". To ****ing toddlers!? Of course the response was me. Which means nothing, they have no idea what that means. Just the fact that he would say that though... gets my blood boiling.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that answers what he's feeling. Now he's out at a friends bachelor party. Said friend is having a destination wedding and we decided that we were NOT going to go because it was too expensive. We were looking at $4000 for the two of us to go or $5800 for the 4 of us to go. He said he didn't want to go by himself because he'd feel bad and would rather spend the $2000 on a family trip. Right before he left he dropped the bomb that he is going to go. No discussion, just that he's going.




Bachelor party = trouble

He said he is going to the wedding by himself?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## quin

Vega said:


> I would take the kids and be_ permanently _gone before he gets back...
> 
> No discussion. Just go. Just like _he_ did...


I don't know if it's logistically possible for me to leave like that. Or legally, with the kids. Both of my parents passed away in the last 5 years, no siblings, no other close family and that will make it a lot harder. At least with my first divorce I had my family there to fall back on for support. 



hifromme67 said:


> Bachelor party = trouble
> 
> He said he is going to the wedding by himself?!


He was suppose to check in around 10PM but it's 1:00AM and hasn't. He could have just forgot but I can't sleep now... 

Yes, he said he's going to go by himself. No discussion, no guilt, and paid for the trip today. It's a week at a resort with half naked women walking around. He could cheat and I'd never find out. His friends are good people, for the most part, but the general opinion of the group seems to be to keep quiet about other couples problems. 

The bride that is getting married ****ed the best man for a year, a few years ago. The couple has been together for 9 years... Everyone knows, but no one will say anything to the groom. If they won't say anything to him, a close friend of theirs, they aren't going to say anything to me. I'm just the wife of a friend, I don't know them on a personal level.


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## TX-SC

quin said:


> I don't know if it's logistically possible for me to leave like that. Or legally, with the kids. Both of my parents passed away in the last 5 years, no siblings, no other close family and that will make it a lot harder. At least with my first divorce I had my family there to fall back on for support.
> 
> 
> 
> He was suppose to check in around 10PM but it's 1:00AM and hasn't. He could have just forgot but I can't sleep now...
> 
> Yes, he said he's going to go by himself. No discussion, no guilt, and paid for the trip today. It's a week at a resort with half naked women walking around. He could cheat and I'd never find out. His friends are good people, for the most part, but the general opinion of the group seems to be to keep quiet about other couples problems.
> 
> The bride that is getting married ****ed the best man for a year, a few years ago. The couple has been together for 9 years... Everyone knows, but no one will say anything to the groom. If they won't say anything to him, a close friend of theirs, they aren't going to say anything to me. I'm just the wife of a friend, I don't know them on a personal level.


Well, it sounds like it's time to pull together whatever resources you can and file for divorce. Can you do it? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Satya

lucy999 said:


> I realize there are other issues in your marriage, but this right here would have me rethinking the whole marriage. You're right. He doesn't respect you. This is a major life decision that should be made together.


I agree with @lucy999. 

While it's his body, and I can respect its ultimately his choice, his decision to deny you the chance to even have a discussion around it screams lack of respect for your thoughts or opinions. It's making a decision that directly impacts the outcome of your reproductive future with him, whether or not you were even considering children in the future. 

I'd not take kindly to such a cold and inconsiderate action from any man I was seriously invested in. The action I'm referring to is not the actual vasectomy but choosing to go ahead and do it without adult discussion or informing you prior to getting it done. 

Please see that you deserve more basic care and consideration, not to mention an actual partner who treats you like you have a say or stake in the dynamics of the relationship.


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## Satya

Since he's showing his true colors now, I think it's time for you to cut your losses. 

He is a massive butt for telling your kids about divorce without you present. 

Please go for full custody and drop him like a rock. NO more laundry, dinner, etc. His cruelty just shows his true nature... Which is that of a larger than life turd. 

And don't be surprised if he already has a woman in the wings. Him going to the party is MEANT to hurt you. See it as a blessing and use that time to get prepared.


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## EleGirl

quin said:


> How do I get him to stop watching porn? I suppose if I ask him to, to save our marriage, and he refuses then there's my answer on whether he wants to stay married. He has said in the past that it's stupid for women to ask their husband not to watch porn and it makes them insecure.


Do you really just buy everything that your husband says? 

There is a point at which porn use is a serious problem in a marriage. When he gets to the point that he prefers porn and masturbation to having sex with his wife, a living, breathing woman; there's a problem. And it's not that you are insecure. It's that he's got a porn addiction. 

You know what they say, if he's not having sex with his wife, he's getting it elsewhere. Your husband is either cheating or he is mastering instead of having sex with you. If he's masturbating a lot.. 99% he's using a lot of porn.

Don't bother to ask him if he's using porn. As you have already found out, he's not going to tell you. Instead he's going to deflect and do things like tell you that you are insecure.

The way I found out what my husband was doing was to put a keystroke monitor on his computer. He was not about to tell me the truth. So I had to protect my self and find out. When he found out that I was snooping, he told me that he clearly could not trust me. I replied that he could absolutely trust me. He could trust that I would always do what had to do not protect myself and my son. 

Note that it usually only takes a few days of snooping to find out what's going on.

Here is some info on porn addiction that you might be useful to you.

Your Brain On Porn | Evolution has not prepared your brain for today's Internet porn


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## EleGirl

blueinbr said:


> dianaelaine59 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Umm .... what??? He had a vasectomy without discussing it with you????
> 
> I don't Think So!!!!!
> 
> That's like REALLY NOT GOOD!!! Asinine even!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A man has a right to control his body and right to birth control just like a woman does.
Click to expand...

Very true. 

A spouse, man or woman, should discuss things like getting fixed surgically with their spouse. I can understand that sometimes a person might do it against their spouse's will, but at least it should be out in the open. It's about respect and honesty.


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## megamuppet

OP, as you are writing these posts and replies, do you not see how bad this situation is that you are in? You really need to get out of this realtionship. He has no respect for you, you are a door mat for him and you are allowing it. The things he has said to your children is so wrong. You need to put yourself and your babies first x

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

quin said:


> There are no clear signs that his porn use has increased. He doesn't seem to spend more time hidden on his computer. He says our sex life sucks and will never talk to me about it and it makes me think he is hiding something that he likes and wants to do. Which kind of freaks me out because if he won't talk to me about it, what the heck is it. Or he prefers porn and is addicted. Or he's getting those needs met elsewhere...


Does it really matter if he's using a lot of porn or having an affair? The bottom line is that he treats you with disrespect. He flat out tells you that he's not attracted to you and not interested in sex with you. He's verbally abusive. And a lot more of negative stuff. 



quin said:


> I've read that constantly chasing him can come off as being desperate and less attractive. I guess I need to stop that... I don't want to feel like I've given up and if the marriage fails that it's my fault. I wanted a happy marriage. I want my kids to have their parents together and have the family that my first didn't. I want my older daughter to see a good marriage rather than a string of failed ones. I feel like I'm setting her up for failure. This isn't a good example either though.


I understand that you don't want to feel like you gave up when one more thing could have fixed the marriage. You don't want to be that women who gave up too soon. So how do you know when you have done all that can be done? Have you thought about what the criteria is for knowing that you have reached the end and clearly it's a lost cause? If you don't now where that line in the sand is, you just might spend the rest of your life trying to fix something that you have no control over.

The only person in your marriage who you can change is yourself. You cannot make your husband change. The more you push him to change, the more he will push back and refuse to change. So you really need to be concentrating on changing yourself. If he wakes up and starts to join you, then good. If not, then what's the point of staying in this marriage?

You cannot fix your marriage alone. You can be a catalyst to make changes, but in the end your husband needs to get off his duff and work with you to fix it.

You say that you want your children to have an intact family. You say that you think that if you get a divorce, you are setting your daughter up for failure. I would argue that letting your daughter grow up in a home where her father mistreats her mother, where there is no attraction and no passion, is setting your daughter up for failure.

Just think, she will grow up to think that the relationship between you and her father is the best that she can ever expect. I don't recall if you have a son, but if you do, he will grow up thinking that the way his father treated you is the way a man treats a woman. Staying in this bad relationship is teaching your children that this is all there is. Is that really the lesson you want to teach them?

If you leave this bad marriage, what you teach your children is to not accept being abused. You will teach them to set proper boundaries, to love them selves and their children enough to not live this kind of unhappy life.

Divorce is better for children than what they are exposed to right now in your marriage. 

Just as divorce was better for my son than him growing up in a bad situation.


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## Mizzbak

When did your marriage troubles start? When your husband had to deal with a wife who was pregnant... when he had to deal with the incredible change in lifestyle that happens when babies are born. Until then he liked the CONCEPT of marriage and having children. But when he was confronted by the REALITY, then suddenly he couldn't cope. He didn't want to be married anymore because it was too hard, too uncomfortable. It required that he put himself second. (Sean Connery said it better somewhere.) 

From where I sit, your husband is not actually mature enough to be a meaningful father or husband. This isn't you. This is him. And I don't think that he ever will be mature enough.

He stopped wanting you and "finding you attractive" because he is trying to escape his responsibilities. Turning away from you allows him to run away from his life. Because you represent all the parts of his life that he isn't man enough to deliver on. 
@quin, he isn't worth it. When you need support, when you need to rely on him, he won't be there. You can hope that he grows up or you can choose to learn how to do this without him. What has he demonstrated so far? Take the week wile he's away to make the plans that need to be in place. If you still need to keep him around for a while for practical purposes, then do that. But you need a plan that doesn't need him for your life to work. 

And finally - enough of this crap that there is something wrong with you because you've had two bad relationships. We've all made mistakes and chosen friends/lovers badly. Your first husband had his own issues (getting married so young was always going to be hard for both of you) - that wasn't your fault. This time round, you were deceived by a charming child (who, in fairness, was probably deceiving himself as well). So be it. You deserve better. Plan for it.


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## EleGirl

Quin, do you have a job outside the home?


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## introvert

quin, I haven't read every single post of your thread...but to me, it seems like your hubs checked out after the babies. 

I don't know how in depth the two of you got in discussing having children, if he was totally on board, or if he sort of figured they would just "happen" and things would iron themselves out...

In my opinion, he seems like an overgrown kid who liked being serviced three times a day, but being immature (and a bit of an ass), he wasn't on board for your pregnancy body. Of course, having a baby (and babies) throws life into a topsy-turvy mode, with little sleep and a lot of added responsibility, which I'm guessing fell squarely on your shoulders. 

Additionally, it seems that you are the parent here...not only of your children, but of your hubs. He has been incredibly
disrespectful of you, and in my humble opinion, it would be much better for you to exit this situation and regain some happiness for yourself. I know you would miss the intimacy, but right now, you're not getting much of anything. Far better to be on your own with the kids and find some modicum of happiness than put up with his idiocy. 

When you are free of him, who knows what sort of love might enter your life?

To quote the last stanza from Ralph Waldo Emerson's "Give All To Love", "When half-gods go, The gods arrive." 

All the best to you...


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## Ursula

Wow, what a ****. I'm so sorry that you're overhearing such awful thing, Quin, and I agree with @Vega, I would probably pack up the kids, and head out before he gets back to town.



quin said:


> Well my husband was bathing our kids and I heard him say "When we divorce who do you want to live with, mommy or daddy?". To ****ing toddlers!? Of course the response was me. Which means nothing, they have no idea what that means. Just the fact that he would say that though... gets my blood boiling.
> 
> I guess that answers what he's feeling. Now he's out at a friends bachelor party. Said friend is having a destination wedding and we decided that we were NOT going to go because it was too expensive. We were looking at $4000 for the two of us to go or $5800 for the 4 of us to go. He said he didn't want to go by himself because he'd feel bad and would rather spend the $2000 on a family trip. Right before he left he dropped the bomb that he is going to go. No discussion, just that he's going.


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