# Very unhappy and I don’t know what to do



## sadandlonely5

Hi everyone. I can’t believe I’m writing this, as I’m not one to normally seek help online. I’m sure my situation is very similar to many others, and I tried searching here before posting, but nothing came up in my preliminary search. 

I’m in my late 30’s, and my husband and I have been together for 12 years, married for 7. We met in our mid 20’s and lived together for 4 years before getting married, and were together for 2 years before having kids, and now have two young kids (5 and 3). While we dated, I worked full time (he was still in grad school when we met) and went to school at night, and planned a wedding from out of state. He went to school and that was it. He has a very good job and makes a lot of money, but he goes to work, makes dinner some nights, helps very minimally with bedtime for the kids, and does his own laundry. I do everything else. We have been moved three times since getting married (for his job) and I gave up my chance to go back to school for the job change I was passionate about because he told me he "didn’t get married so that we could not live together”. Since my oldest was born I have not worked. We last moved this summer, and I sold the house by myself and did everything myself (including dealing with all workers for the house from exterminators to plumbers. I pay all the bills, manage our finances, deal with everything regarding home maintenance, the kids, buy everything for the house, make all appointments and plans for the family, pretty much everything. I even helped him look for his last job for over a year.

When we met, he had a some friends from when he was in school, and we had a lot of fun and he was a somewhat social (though more shy/introverted with people he didn’t know well) when we dated. I had the career and more money, and he had no adult responsibilities, and everything was good. He dragged his feet for two years waiting to propose, and he made comments after my oldest was born that if we had waited just x amount longer, we could have had more time in the last city to enjoy it without kids. He has no more friends and puts no effort into maintaining or making friendships, and has no hobbies and does not leave the house. It’s work or family time, and that’s it. He has become extremely boring, we argue all of the time (literally almost every conversation, no matter how benign, turns into an argument or snide comments from both of us) and I often avoid talking because it rarely ends without an argument or attitude.

He comes from a very traditional family (parents till married, but I don’t know how happily or if it’s just accepted boredom) and his mother was a helicopter mother, and he and his sister didn’t have to do anything but focus on school. They never had jobs or did their own laundry. His parents even went with him to buy a car when we were living together in our late 20’s (a big red flag before we got married). I think deep down he has been raised to believe he was supposed to become an professional, have a wife and kids and lead the very traditional life that his parents had, but I sometimes think he’s not happy. All of our “date nights” are no fun. We don’t have sex that often - maybe once every week or two - and I have not wanted or enjoyed sex in years. Maybe even before kids, but definitely since he finished school and had to adult (right after our oldest was born). I just fake it all of the time for the marriage and because he wants sex. I had a very healthy sex life before we met, but even that was hampered when we were dating and he was watching a lot of porn.

We left a great city that me and the kids had lots of friends in, with a house and neighborhood we loved. When we moved, I wanted to wait a few more weeks (we had insanely flexible buyers and could choose any date we wanted within 2 months to move). We had a hard time finding houses that we liked in the new town because it’s an older city and many homes were outdated, needed work and were very expensive. He refused to rent, and refused to allow me and the kids to stay in our old house for even two more weeks to give us more time to find a house we maybe liked better, because “he couldn’t live without his family for even two weeks”. According to him, no one live apart from their family unless they have absolutely no choice. We put an offer in on a house, and he panicked after they accepted our offer and decided he didn’t want to pay that much for a house (it was less than the house we sold and well within our budget with plenty left over). He screamed at me until I had a breakdown for a few hours, and made us buy the cheapest house we saw that because he wants to save more money. He’s always paranoid about saving money and not having enough. I have become the most frugal budgeter and saved us a great deal of money since I completely took over every last bit of finances/investments when we moved. He didn’t care that I hated the house or wanted two or four more weeks to move (and the kids missed out on several things in those few weeks), it had to be the cheapest house, no renting, and we all moved together on the 1st. No compromises. 

I know that I’m not happy. I don’t know if it’s the move, the fact that I’m getting closer to 40 and hitting that mid-life phase, or all of the above, but I genuinely don’t feel like I like him or love him. I’m totally just going though the motions, and not very well. He rightfully tells me that I don’t appreciate him or support him anymore, but since he forced me to move and didn’t care about my needs (and proceeded to tell people that the last house sold itself and that I didn’t really do any work) I just have a hard time even faking it anymore. I have been in therapy myself, I went to my doctor and asked for antidepressants, but she told me that she doesn’t feel that I need them, and that I really don’t seem depressed, which my therapist agrees with. They both feel it’s situational. We have been going to couples counseling for almost 5 months. I suspect he is depressed, and he has read some books and began drinking tea (of which I don’t constantly praise him for, and he feels that I’m not supporting and unappreciative, which is true), but he won’t go to therapy. 

We have a decent life, we are frugally upper middle class without the nice things, but I often feel guilty that I should just be happy with what I have. His family and mine have both stayed with us recently, and every person has made comments that he does not seem happy, he yells way too much at the kids, and that I seem depressed (which I have been). My mother recently confided that she always thought that the cliche that opposites attract is BS, and that we have always just been way too different. I’m a go-getter and a hustler, and I put 100% effort into everything and everyone, and my husband is much more lazy (although he has a great job, which is his defense that he isn’t lazy although he does nothing else). If it’s not important to him or his job, he often half-asses it, which is extremely frustrating to me. She also feels (which she just told me now - a little too late, huh- that she doesn’t feel like he has ever been in love with me, and even cards he gives me always just say things like "thanks for all that you do” or “I love our family”. He has no pictures of me on his phone, and now I’m even questioning if he ever loved me, or if he’s just dependent. He’s extremely passive aggressive, but passive with everyone else (to the point of being spineless) and then takes out his aggression and frustrations on me. That doesn’t feel like love. I do think I did love him, but I feel like he’s a completely different person from when we met, and the stresses of adulthood and having a family have done too much harm.

I’m not happy, and I don’t think he is. We have young kids, and I don’t want to divorce and cause them problems that they will deal with into adulthood, but I also don’t want to model a loveless marriage or have them grow up with us constantly fighting. I know that it won’t be easier if we divorce, and I will be doing even more than I already am if I’m a single mom, but I also don’t want to go through life being unhappy. I keep thinking maybe this is just a rough patch or a phase. I’m so unhappy, and I don’t want to just give up on marriage or hurt my kids, but I also don’t love him or want to work on the marriage. I want him to be a different person, and that’s not fair. I know that’s my fault, but what do I do now? I’m working on me and trying to be as happy as I can with my life (which I am) except for my marriage and husband. 

Thanks for reading my extremely long-winded post that likely has too many details.


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## farsidejunky

How many hours per week does he work?


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## sadandlonely5

farsidejunky said:


> How many hours per week does he work?


About 40 hours a week, 8-4.


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## farsidejunky

sadandlonely5 said:


> About 40 hours a week, 8-4.


If you had told me he worked 60-80, I may have more sympathy for his position.

At 40 hours? Nope.

Time to communicate, with complete clarity, just how dire the situation is. You can further tell him it may already be to late. Either way, do not leave the conversation without his tacit understanding of the situation.

He will either step up...or he won't.


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## Red Sonja

Why does he always get "his way", what happens when you assert yourself?


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## Openminded

My ex-husband was a workaholic. Long hours in the office. Brought work home on the weekend. No hobbies. Did virtually nothing but work except for one big vacation a year. That went on for decades. I also had a demanding career but not as demanding as his so I did everything that needed to be done because someone had to and it wasn't going to be him. But that's not the situation with your husband. He's not a workaholic. He's just not interested. Can the two of you recover? Maybe. But that takes time and effort and commitment from both of you. The first step is to calmly discuss where the marriage is and how to go forward. If you can do that, there's hope. If you can't, you know where you stand.


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## FalCod

Sounds like you guys need to have a talk. Don't let problems like this fester and grow in silence.


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## oldshirt

In some ways you two sound a lot like my wife and I and I could see my wife writing much of what you wrote - except I would be fine with renting until we found a good place and I would have no problems with two weeks of peace and quiet if you stayed back. 

I'm not sure there is an actual solution here. You two are so different in your attitudes and personalities and the way you view the world. 

Would he be perfectly happy in a one room apartment, heating up a can of beef stew and eating it out of the pan in front of the TV or video game or something? 

If so, you two may just have very different life goals and temperments on how you want to live your life. I don't know if there is really any reconciliation here. 

There probably is no solution here where he somehow transforms into an ambitious, go-getter that is on the roof repairing shingles and going to Ikea every weekend looking for new countertops and basement storage solutions. 

But it is not too much to ask that he step up and be an adult and take on a reasonable share of the household responsibilities. 

He can definitely grow up and take on some of the adult tasks that need to be done in the home and in the family. If he were on his own, he would have to pay bills and keep the car running and keep the kitchen clean enough to keep the bugs away and keep his laundry clean enough he wasn't stinking up the office at work. 

However you would have to do those things on your own if you were living separately as well. You're not getting a lot of help now with him under the same roof and you would definitely not get any help from him living separately. 

So one of the first questions you need to ask yourself is are you better off with him or would you be in a better position and have a better life one your own and having shared custody of the kids? (I am taking the assumption he would want at least some custody of the kids. But maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he would be ok with periodic visitation and paying child support)


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> But it is not too much to ask that he step up and be an adult and take on a reasonable share of the household responsibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> )


He can and should be able to step up and do more adulting in the home and family. 

The problem is this is a deeply ingrained part of his personality and persona. 

In order to get him to wake up and step up to the plate with adult responsibilities, "talk" is not going to give him the wake up call and motivation to actually grow up and step up to the plate. 

You are likely going to have to turn to some terrorist activities and blow some things up. 

----like legally separating and living separately until he learns to adult and manage a household and develop those adult skills and mindsets. 

He may have live on his own and manage his own accounts and bills and learn to feed the kids and manage their schedules and their doctor's appointments etc until it becomes a part of his life routines. 

And in the mean time he does not have your love and affection and sexuality etc etc 

It will probably take that until the light goes off over his head and he gets it. 

That would probably take at minimum of many months and potentially a year or more and perhaps even some collection agencies and repossessions etc. 

.........and there is the potential that he never gets it and simply flounders and fails as an adult human being and just somehow survives on the fringes of society. 

Unfortunately I don't think anything less than facing the loss of his wife and the break up of his marriage and being thrown out to survive on his own in the adult world will get him to wake up and step up to the adult world.


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## oldshirt

sadandlonely5 said:


> We have young kids, and I don’t want to divorce and cause them problems that they will deal with into adulthood, but I also don’t want to model a loveless marriage or have them grow up with us constantly fighting.
> 
> I’m so unhappy, and I don’t want to just give up on marriage or hurt my kids, .


You also need to challenge these beliefs. 

Children are harmed by abuse, molestation, alcoholism/drug abuse, abandonment, neglect and living in an environment of chronic hostility. 

They are not harmed by two loving, supportive parents that are involved in their lives but happen to live in two separate homes. 

The real question here is would your husband's immaturity rise to a level that the children would potentially be harmed in his care? In other words would he feed them and keep their body temperatures at 98.6 and keep predators (4-legged and 2-legged) from eating them? 

I know he will never be as good of a mother as you are, but would being in his care place them in actual danger? Would he be a legally competent father while they are in his care and would he feed, clothe and house them adequately and provide for their medical care should the need arise?

If he would be a legally competent father enough to keep them from being harmed in his care, then the fact that you two are divorced and living separately would not bring actual harm or damage to the children. 

They would be inconvenienced and it would be a pain to be moving back and forth between houses; but they would not be harmed or damaged. 

The church ladies want us to think that divorce harms and damages children. It does not. It's the abuse and abandonment and chemical addition that caused the divorce back in the olden days that was harming children. 

Getting away from toxic and hostile and dysfunctional environments and into healthy, loving, supportive environments is what helps children.


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## username77

In your husbands defense making and maintaining friendships for men are very difficult as we get older. We tend to get tied up into our own world and don't have time for them. Men are grinders and look to provide and make sure everyone else is happy before they look at their own happiness. If he's an introvert there's a good chance he's perfectly happy not making new friends and socializing. If this was important to you, you should've married an extroverted social butterfly, but then again there are downsides, he would likely be cheating on you and running around the entire marriage, at the bar, at friends house parties, you would be wishing for a guy just like "Janet's husband"who just works and enjoys family time.

If you're currently not working outside the home and your husband works full time, and does do dinners, his laundry, etc... What else are you expecting? Isn't it your job to keep the home up? There's no way it takes anywhere near 40 hours a week to keep the house clean and laundry washed. I can clean my entire house top to bottom including kitchen and bathrooms in less than an hour. Laundry you can do while watching The View. 

I don't understand this new push of SAHM's insisting their husbands who work full time "pull their weight" around the house and do equal share of the chores. NO, that's YOUR job, his job is working and bringing in a pay check. If the roles were reversed I would say the same thing.

But all that aside, if you two hate each other have a conversation and decide 1. are we going to fix it? And can we fix it? 2. Separate and divorce 3. Live in the status quo until the kids are older.


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## sokillme

I will echo everyone else. You need to communicate this. Not i'm unhappy, you need to say "I'm just about done". Part of this is that you feel like you have lost your agency. Like you are trapped. You probably are going through a mid life crisis, most people feel it when they hit a certain age, but this just make the situation worse. You don't have to stay in an unhappy situation forever so this situation is not as desperate as you feel right now. Let that give you at least a little hope and relieve the pressure so you don't do something you regret. 

40 hours a week is pretty standard so I really don't think that is the problem, it's probably that you feel trapped and very lonely. Also it should like you feel like he has no investment in the marriage besides working. That's not good. No one person can fix that for you, though not even your husband. But if your whole life is just the kids and a depressed man that isn't going to cut it. Do you have any hobbies? Girlfriends? How about you going back to work maybe even part time so that you can have some life besides being home all day. That can ease some financial burden for him, but force him to be more active too. I mean most of us work 40 hours a week and don't have the luxury of not being involved in our own lives as our spouses work too. I mean what does he do all night and on the weekends?

Yes he sounds very depressed. I think that may be a place to start have you brought that up with your MC? Personally I think you need to light a fire under his ass, which is why you should be completely honest with him. Plus he needs the opportunity to fix it. Can it be fixed, I think probably but he needs to get over his depression become an active partner, start treating you as a teammate and not as his kids Mom. If he changed himself and worked hard that may enable you to forgive and love him again. But it's really up to him and a big if. 

DO NOT CHEAT! Even if you meet George Clooney it will not work out well in the long run. Be honorable because even if it doesn't work out, being honorable will give you the best start moving forward. Be mindful that you are very vulnerable right now, so stay away from situations where you will be tempted. Remember this is still the father of your children and it is not just cheating on him but their father.


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## WilliamM

May I ask, what country do you live in? I suspect it is not the country I live in, the United States, so I may not understand some of the issues.

Although the sadness is quite understandable.


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## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> You also need to challenge these beliefs.
> 
> Children are harmed by abuse, molestation, alcoholism/drug abuse, abandonment, neglect and living in an environment of chronic hostility.
> 
> They are not harmed by two loving, supportive parents that are involved in their lives but happen to live in two separate homes.
> 
> The real question here is would your husband's immaturity rise to a level that the children would potentially be harmed in his care? In other words would he feed them and keep their body temperatures at 98.6 and keep predators (4-legged and 2-legged) from eating them?
> 
> I know he will never be as good of a mother as you are, but would being in his care place them in actual danger? Would he be a legally competent father while they are in his care and would he feed, clothe and house them adequately and provide for their medical care should the need arise?
> 
> If he would be a legally competent father enough to keep them from being harmed in his care, then the fact that you two are divorced and living separately would not bring actual harm or damage to the children.
> 
> They would be inconvenienced and it would be a pain to be moving back and forth between houses; but they would not be harmed or damaged.
> 
> The church ladies want us to think that divorce harms and damages children. It does not. It's the abuse and abandonment and chemical addition that caused the divorce back in the olden days that was harming children.
> 
> Getting away from toxic and hostile and dysfunctional environments and into healthy, loving, supportive environments is what helps children.


I have seen many children damaged by their parents getting divorced. Of course it harms them, their whole worlds are devastated and rocked on their very foundations. No one is suggesting that anyone stay in a truly abusive marriage, or when one spouse is a druggie, but many marriages that end are not for reasons such as that. You are very naïve if you think that divorce doesn't damage the children, they are often badly affected for many years. Many studies have shown this.www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...hildren-Suffering-goes-adulthood-old-age.html


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## jlcrome

I really had to brain storm this situation to really give usefull advice that can really impact your marriage. This post points me to the 5 love launguage book it seems that the launguage you put forth and your husband put forth is causing friction. I personally think your husband loves you and probably more happier than you realize. His love launguage that he presents to you might not be the love launguage that you hoped for. In return your love launguage is not what he hoped for. Y'all seem to react to poor quality love launguage. Men for example admiration ranked very high on the love launguage list. Having an attravtive partner I think ranks 3rd. Being respected is number 1 but I can be wrong been a while since i've read the book. I'm pretty sure it goes both ways and he's presenting a love language that ranks low to you. It seems like a mis-matched love language. 
But then again there's no one size fits all theory. But I can offer a website in which I think is the best advice on marriage. Maybe both of y'all can benefit from it. marriage helper, i spent countless hours listening to podcast and reading countless articles they are top notch in what they do. They can turn any situation around way better than couseling or any book you can read. Good luck


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## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I have seen many children damaged by their parents getting divorced. Of course it harms them, their whole worlds are devastated and rocked on their very foundations. No one is suggesting that anyone stay in a truly abusive marriage, or when one spouse is a druggie, but many marriages that end are not for reasons such as that. You are very naïve if you think that divorce doesn't damage the children, they are often badly affected for many years. Many studies have shown this.No longer taboo, but divorce still damages children: Suffering goes on into adulthood and even old age | Daily Mail Online


This is a debate that will probably rage on for long after we are all back to cosmic dust. 

And it is a debate that is probably best left it's own thread. But I want to make a quick clarification that I am talking about two sane, sober, loving, supportive parents who happen to live in two separate houses. 

With cooperative and compassionate coparenting where is the "damage" going to come from?? 

Yes, I am aware that there are a kagillion studies out there that point that a lot of children of divorce have had problems. But how many of those kids were exposed to abuse, neglect, addiction, chronic hostility etc etc. 

Those things do cause harm and lasting issues etc. 

In this instance the OP states her H isn't good with paying bills or housekeeping and moves to different jobs without abiding by her wishes. She hasn't indicated that he would pose any potential harm to the kids or that they would be at risk in his care. 

There for I urge her to challenge her assumption that they would be harmed or damaged in any way simply due to her leaving her H. 

Will they be saddened, inconvenienced and face certain challenges due to divorce? Yeah, sure. 

But I am talking about actual harm and damage.


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## cc48kel

It won't get any better unless you do something. Your in marriage counseling so doesn't any of this come up? If not, it should be addressed. If you choose to separate or divorce you won't harm your kids as long as your both adults about it. I would think each would spend quality time together-- the kids are so young that it should be OK. I think the harm is when both parents are saying not so nice stuff to each other or when the kids are being neglected (being passed to a babysitting instead of quality time with each parent). But as long as both parents work together at raising the kids, it should be fine.

My spouse has been coddled all his life and I don't understand why I didn't see the red flags. I probably thought that as we age he will gain knowledge about stuff in the house and life in general. I see my in-laws at kids games and holidays never a conflict.. But every now and then my spouse will get upset and call his aging parents. Parents will call me-- this last call that I got last week was MIL told me to be a better wife!! I had a few choice words and reminded her that a marriage takes 2!! Spouse refuses counseling (he has high aniexty and might be depressed too) BUT I go for myself-- he hates the fact that I go for myself. My BP is slowly creeping up and I eat healthy and exercise so it must be the environment that I live. We have been married 18 years so one day I will get sick of all this and walk.. Life is short-- I don't want to argue, I want to feel happy, safe and loved. I want conversations and intimacy. I want laughter!! Everyone needs this in their lives. I want a supportive (emotional-mental) partner.

Please think about what you want and need in your life. Get a good therapist to help you figure this out. I have a feeling you would be much better off on your own 50/50 custody.


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## sadandlonely5

Red Sonja said:


> Why does he always get "his way", what happens when you assert yourself?


I assert myself frequently, as I’m not a doormat type (I’m a type A person and I’ve had to learn to pick my battles), ant it just leads to more conflict. He’s not a “yes dear” type of guy or one who often says I’m sorry. It’s an odd mix, because he’s extremely passive and spineless in most other areas of his life, but then he exerts his aggressiveness and stubbornness with me and at home. 

He will literally tell me that he wants me to tell him what to do, but then he also gets mad that I don’t let him do anything on his own, that I’m controlling and I tell him what to do. Many times he will half ass things and mess them up, but if I ask him to correct it, then I become controlling. When it comes to the kids or the house, he rarely does things of his own volition, I always have to ask, whether it’s fixing something or remembering to get waters for the kids before we get in the car. It’s odd, because even at work, he will do exactly what he has to (he is a major rule follower and always scared of getting in trouble), but he won’t put in any additional effort or do anything more to get ahead or get a promotion. He expects them to just tell him what to do, but he won’t go out and ask, and then gets frustrated when he gets passed over at work or his salary is cut.


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## sadandlonely5

oldshirt said:


> He can and should be able to step up and do more adulting in the home and family.
> 
> The problem is this is a deeply ingrained part of his personality and persona.
> 
> In order to get him to wake up and step up to the plate with adult responsibilities, "talk" is not going to give him the wake up call and motivation to actually grow up and step up to the plate.
> 
> You are likely going to have to turn to some terrorist activities and blow some things up.
> 
> ----like legally separating and living separately until he learns to adult and manage a household and develop those adult skills and mindsets.
> 
> He may have live on his own and manage his own accounts and bills and learn to feed the kids and manage their schedules and their doctor's appointments etc until it becomes a part of his life routines.
> 
> And in the mean time he does not have your love and affection and sexuality etc etc
> 
> It will probably take that until the light goes off over his head and he gets it.
> 
> That would probably take at minimum of many months and potentially a year or more and perhaps even some collection agencies and repossessions etc.
> 
> .........and there is the potential that he never gets it and simply flounders and fails as an adult human being and just somehow survives on the fringes of society.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't think anything less than facing the loss of his wife and the break up of his marriage and being thrown out to survive on his own in the adult world will get him to wake up and step up to the adult world.


I agree with what you have said. I don’t think he would flounder in any financially, as he is very fiscally conservative and paranoid about debt and never saving enough. We are both very well educated and responsible, and he is a good father (he has some issues with hovering too much and yelling at the kids too much/being very strict which comes from how he was raised, but otherwise a great parent) and he does love the kids more than anything. He would absolutely be involved in their life and likely want some kind of shared custody. We are both 100% focused on the kids and make good choices in life, so I don’t think there would be any issue with us coparenting very well together. If we do split up, I would hope and try to do so in the most amicable way possible, as I don’t hate him and there is no terrible animosity between us, we are just so very different in so many ways, and his passive/scared little boy attitude about everything in life is just very difficult to live with.

If you look in a dictionary for “helicopter mom”, my MIL would have her picture in there; she was a helicopter mom before they were a thing in the late 70’s/early 80’s. She never let her kids ride the bus to school, had absolutely no life or friends outside of their kids, and they did everything for their kids, including their homework and making all life choices. My husband still talks to his dad several times a week, and they still pay for cell phones and car insurance for his siblings, including full time free babysitting and financial support. 

We talked about all of this ad nausea before we got married, and he was much more social and seemed independent and wanted to be nothing like his family, but having to get a real job after school, marriage, kids and moving to a city where we knew no one and had to start over seems to have regressed him back to what he knew. I have always believed that people go one of two ways: they go with what they know, or rebel against. I’m the ultimate rebel (in a positive sense, wanting better for myself and to improve upon shortcomings of how I was raised or my status in life) and he wound up going with what he knew, and turning into his parents (who are nice people, but not my cup of tea, and did absolutely no favors for their children). This causes many conflicts in our relationship, including how we want to raise and treat the children. And this is my dilemma.


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## sadandlonely5

username77 said:


> In your husbands defense making and maintaining friendships for men are very difficult as we get older. We tend to get tied up into our own world and don't have time for them. Men are grinders and look to provide and make sure everyone else is happy before they look at their own happiness. If he's an introvert there's a good chance he's perfectly happy not making new friends and socializing. If this was important to you, you should've married an extroverted social butterfly, but then again there are downsides, he would likely be cheating on you and running around the entire marriage, at the bar, at friends house parties, you would be wishing for a guy just like "Janet's husband"who just works and enjoys family time.
> 
> If you're currently not working outside the home and your husband works full time, and does do dinners, his laundry, etc... What else are you expecting? Isn't it your job to keep the home up? There's no way it takes anywhere near 40 hours a week to keep the house clean and laundry washed. I can clean my entire house top to bottom including kitchen and bathrooms in less than an hour. Laundry you can do while watching The View.
> 
> I don't understand this new push of SAHM's insisting their husbands who work full time "pull their weight" around the house and do equal share of the chores. NO, that's YOUR job, his job is working and bringing in a pay check. If the roles were reversed I would say the same thing.
> 
> But all that aside, if you two hate each other have a conversation and decide 1. are we going to fix it? And can we fix it? 2. Separate and divorce 3. Live in the status quo until the kids are older.


I have many friends that are SAHM’s, but that does not mean that their husbands do very little other than go to work. No one is expecting a husband who works to do equal amounts around the house as a mom who stays home, but that does not mean that all men do are work, come home and watch TV, and maybe mow the lawn on the weekends. I’m not a feminist, but most of my friend’s husbands pay the bills, manage finances, do yard work or work around the house, or something. Don’t just sit on your phone while I get the kids to bed every night, expect me to manage the money, call the roofer, put together furniture, sweep out the garage and everything else. 

I went to school part time while working full time, looking for another job (which is a full-time job) planning a wedding out of state and applying to grad schools. I then went to grad school full time, worked part time, planned for our first child, and did ALL of the legwork to move us out of state and buy a house. I know what it is to work hard, and I’ve been working since I was 13. When you work 35-40 hours a week and maybe just heat up some food, that’s work, and it’s not easy, but that’s kind of the bare minimum for a working adult in this country. I do work also, and I work harder now than I did while I was working full time, going to school at night and applying to grad schools. I am up at all hours of the night with the kids when they are sick and our aging dog who has bladder issues. I don’t get any days off of breaks, and being alone with two young kids where you might go days without seeing another adult other than your spouse is very lonely. 

When we met I had the career making great money and he was still in grad school. He didn’t want me to have to work when we had small infants if we didn't have to, and we made sacrifices and moved away from family to anther part of the country with a lower cost of living so that we could. 
I shop at Kohl’s and clip coupons. 

If I go back to work, which I plan to do very soon, and have already been looking for two months, I don’t think he will do a ton more around the house or with the kids. I am not afraid to work, and I’m not complaining about my life or about being a SAHM - AT ALL - I am just complaining that we have nothing in common, nothing to talk about, and we are not happy. We only moved six months ago, but I have already made friends, have a social network of sorts, and have been out looking for a job. We have no couple friends, and our date nights are sad with very little to talk about. I beg him to go out and make friends, or even to fly home and see old friends, but he won’t go. He just sits on the couch staring at his phone or a book. 

I have been in therapy, we have been going to therapy, and I have a life outside of my family and am otherwise happy. I will make friends wherever I go, I can turn lemons into lemonade and I am a very smart and hard-working person who will always come out on top. My friends and family tell me all of the time that if we split, I will be fine, as I always am. Maybe I’m just bored, but I don’t think just going back to work will solve all of that. It will only make my life harder, and I’m fine with harder as long as I’m happy. I am just struggling with whether to stay in a relationship in which I’m just very unhappy and bored, with a person who just is there, who doesn’t seem to want to put in any extra effort or bother to go that extra mile. He’s very content with just trudging along through life and not seeming to want to make friends, have fun or be fun, or to work harder or feel successful. I’m a work hard/play hard kind of person, but I need to have fun, great relationships and bonds and great experiences in life. 

I know that life isn’t what Facebook seems and that everyone has struggles and no relationship is perfect, but I have plenty of friends who still go out, have fun, have a social life or seem to smile and have fun with their spouses or significant others. Is that so much to ask?


----------



## x598

> I have been in therapy, we have been going to therapy, and I have a life outside of my family and am otherwise happy. I will make friends wherever I go, I can turn lemons into lemonade and I am a very smart and hard-working person who will always come out on top. My friends and family tell me all of the time that if we split, I will be fine, as I always am. Maybe I’m just bored, but I don’t think just going back to work will solve all of that. It will only make my life harder, and I’m fine with harder as long as I’m happy. I am just struggling with whether to stay in a relationship in which I’m just very unhappy and bored, with a person who just is there, who doesn’t seem to want to put in any extra effort or bother to go that extra mile. He’s very content with just trudging along through life and not seeming to want to make friends, have fun or be fun, or to work harder or feel successful. I’m a work hard/play hard kind of person, but I need to have fun, great relationships and bonds and great experiences in life.
> 
> I know that life isn’t what Facebook seems and that everyone has struggles and no relationship is perfect, but I have plenty of friends who still go out, have fun, have a social life or seem to smile and have fun with their spouses or significant others. Is that so much to ask?


OP if you are so good at making lemonade, why cant that be applied to your marriage? after reading more of your posts....i am going to offer i see some of the things you have mentioned as PETTY. you mentioned "he didnt get the kids water when putting them in the car"......REALLY?? i dont get my kids water when i put them in the car......

it seems to me YOUR EXPECTATIONS may be out of line and even worse....holding him to some standard YOU THINK is correct but that don't make it so.

your facebook mention is priceless. of course EVERYONE has dirt in their lives.......and you DONT see that on FAKE BOOK. sitting around and browsing that rubbish thinking of all the things you dont have and then holding your husband accountable for it.....well, its a recipe for disaster and you are on those rails riding it to a very unhappy ending.


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## sadandlonely5

x598 said:


> OP if you are so good at making lemonade, why cant that be applied to your marriage? after reading more of your posts....i am going to offer i see some of the things you have mentioned as PETTY. you mentioned "he didnt get the kids water when putting them in the car"......REALLY?? i dont get my kids water when i put them in the car......
> 
> it seems to me YOUR EXPECTATIONS may be out of line and even worse....holding him to some standard YOU THINK is correct but that don't make it so.
> 
> your facebook mention is priceless. of course EVERYONE has dirt in their lives.......and you DONT see that on FAKE BOOK. sitting around and browsing that rubbish thinking of all the things you dont have and then holding your husband accountable for it.....well, its a recipe for disaster and you are on those rails riding it to a very unhappy ending.


I did not mean to give a petty examples to seem like I have unrealistic expectations, I mentioned it to show that even when it comes to basic things like checking if children have clean diapers and water is overlooked, but then if I ask if he did it or ask him to do it, I’m controlling and demanding. His own family members have told me that he seems very unhappy, unmotivated and uninvolved at times, and my family and friends have said this as well, so I honestly don’t believe that I’m exaggerating or expecting too much. I just want to know whether I’m expected to be on top of everything and reminding/asking him to do most things, or if he has it under control and I don’t give him a chance to do things. I either need to "ask or tell him what to do” or stop telling him what to do and "let him prove he can do it himself”. He has said these things sometimes in the same day. It feels as if he wants to feel in control and respected, but then he often doesn’t want to do anything to earn respect and wants to be treated like a child. Why do I have to ask him to get off his phone and help the child begging for help while I am in the bathroom or am helping the other child with something, and then get accused of telling him what to do all of the time? I feel like it’s a lose-lose situation for me. 

More importantly, like I mentioned in my original post, there is no joy, no passion, no friendship or anything to talk about in the relationship. We fight and have many conflicts and power struggles, but we have no couple friends (and some of my friends' husbands don’t care for him), no common hobbies or interests, and it feels like the kids are the only thing holding us together sometimes. I have given up my career and made sacrifices, both financial and personal, to have the wonderful opportunity to be able to stay at home while the kids were very young, and have moved multiple times and given up what I wanted to do (go back to school for) for his career. I don’t feel respected or loved (but he does care for me and is not abusive) and I sadly I don’t enjoy spending time with him. If it weren’t for the kids I would be gone, but I don’t want the kids to suffer because of choices that I made that led to being with the wrong person.


----------



## x598

OP,



> I did not mean to give a petty examples to seem like I have unrealistic expectations, I mentioned it to show that even when it comes to basic things like checking if children have clean diapers and water is overlooked, but then if I ask if he did it or ask him to do it, I’m controlling and demanding. His own family members have told me that he seems very unhappy, unmotivated and uninvolved at times, and my family and friends have said this as well, so I honestly don’t believe that I’m exaggerating or expecting too much. I just want to know whether I’m expected to be on top of everything and reminding/asking him to do most things, or if he has it under control and I don’t give him a chance to do things. I either need to "ask or tell him what to do” or stop telling him what to do and "let him prove he can do it himself”. He has said these things sometimes in the same day. It feels as if he wants to feel in control and respected, but then he often doesn’t want to do anything to earn respect and wants to be treated like a child. Why do I have to ask him to get off his phone and help the child begging for help while I am in the bathroom or am helping the other child with something, and then get accused of telling him what to do all of the time? I feel like it’s a lose-lose situation for me.
> 
> More importantly, like I mentioned in my original post, there is no joy, no passion, no friendship or anything to talk about in the relationship. We fight and have many conflicts and power struggles, but we have no couple friends (and some of my friends' husbands don’t care for him), no common hobbies or interests, and it feels like the kids are the only thing holding us together sometimes. I have given up my career and made sacrifices, both financial and personal, to have the wonderful opportunity to be able to stay at home while the kids were very young, and have moved multiple times and given up what I wanted to do (go back to school for) for his career. I don’t feel respected or loved (but he does care for me and is not abusive) and I sadly I don’t enjoy spending time with him. If it weren’t for the kids I would be gone, but I don’t want the kids to suffer because of choices that I made that led to being with the wrong person.


you mention him "getting off his phone to help a child while you are in the bathroom".........WHY? what if he was on an importnant business call or whatever.......is your child going to die if they are pitching a fit because they spilled their juice? I dont think so. then again, maybe what he was doing was trivial....but i am just pointing out that here again YOUR expectations are the deciding factor and not necessarily the way things HAVE to be.

i hear you about a loss of passion and attraction in your marriage. Its a death spiral. the issue is....hold on here you wont like this.....YOU HAD A HAND in this coming about.

everything i read in your posts is all about you blaming him and your expectations not being met. Even worse you talk about "wonderful opportunity to stay home" and then turn around and bi&%h about what you have given up to do so. You cant have it both ways.

I am offering much of your happiness is coming from within you and being blamed on your husband. Its a true recipe for divorce, and then you will find out after you are single the grass wasn't any greener after all. take care of your grass and water it....thats where it grows best.


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## MEM2020

Great first post. Very clear and well written. Also kind of sad.




sadandlonely5 said:


> Hi everyone. I can’t believe I’m writing this, as I’m not one to normally seek help online. I’m sure my situation is very similar to many others, and I tried searching here before posting, but nothing came up in my preliminary search.
> 
> I’m in my late 30’s, and my husband and I have been together for 12 years, married for 7. We met in our mid 20’s and lived together for 4 years before getting married, and were together for 2 years before having kids, and now have two young kids (5 and 3). While we dated, I worked full time (he was still in grad school when we met) and went to school at night, and planned a wedding from out of state. He went to school and that was it. He has a very good job and makes a lot of money, but he goes to work, makes dinner some nights, helps very minimally with bedtime for the kids, and does his own laundry. I do everything else. We have been moved three times since getting married (for his job) and I gave up my chance to go back to school for the job change I was passionate about because he told me he "didn’t get married so that we could not live together”. Since my oldest was born I have not worked. We last moved this summer, and I sold the house by myself and did everything myself (including dealing with all workers for the house from exterminators to plumbers. I pay all the bills, manage our finances, deal with everything regarding home maintenance, the kids, buy everything for the house, make all appointments and plans for the family, pretty much everything. I even helped him look for his last job for over a year.
> 
> When we met, he had a some friends from when he was in school, and we had a lot of fun and he was a somewhat social (though more shy/introverted with people he didn’t know well) when we dated. I had the career and more money, and he had no adult responsibilities, and everything was good. He dragged his feet for two years waiting to propose, and he made comments after my oldest was born that if we had waited just x amount longer, we could have had more time in the last city to enjoy it without kids. He has no more friends and puts no effort into maintaining or making friendships, and has no hobbies and does not leave the house. It’s work or family time, and that’s it. He has become extremely boring, we argue all of the time (literally almost every conversation, no matter how benign, turns into an argument or snide comments from both of us) and I often avoid talking because it rarely ends without an argument or attitude.
> 
> He comes from a very traditional family (parents till married, but I don’t know how happily or if it’s just accepted boredom) and his mother was a helicopter mother, and he and his sister didn’t have to do anything but focus on school. They never had jobs or did their own laundry. His parents even went with him to buy a car when we were living together in our late 20’s (a big red flag before we got married). I think deep down he has been raised to believe he was supposed to become an professional, have a wife and kids and lead the very traditional life that his parents had, but I sometimes think he’s not happy. All of our “date nights” are no fun. We don’t have sex that often - maybe once every week or two - and I have not wanted or enjoyed sex in years. Maybe even before kids, but definitely since he finished school and had to adult (right after our oldest was born). I just fake it all of the time for the marriage and because he wants sex. I had a very healthy sex life before we met, but even that was hampered when we were dating and he was watching a lot of porn.
> 
> We left a great city that me and the kids had lots of friends in, with a house and neighborhood we loved. When we moved, I wanted to wait a few more weeks (we had insanely flexible buyers and could choose any date we wanted within 2 months to move). We had a hard time finding houses that we liked in the new town because it’s an older city and many homes were outdated, needed work and were very expensive. He refused to rent, and refused to allow me and the kids to stay in our old house for even two more weeks to give us more time to find a house we maybe liked better, because “he couldn’t live without his family for even two weeks”. According to him, no one live apart from their family unless they have absolutely no choice. We put an offer in on a house, and he panicked after they accepted our offer and decided he didn’t want to pay that much for a house (it was less than the house we sold and well within our budget with plenty left over). He screamed at me until I had a breakdown for a few hours, and made us buy the cheapest house we saw that because he wants to save more money. He’s always paranoid about saving money and not having enough. I have become the most frugal budgeter and saved us a great deal of money since I completely took over every last bit of finances/investments when we moved. He didn’t care that I hated the house or wanted two or four more weeks to move (and the kids missed out on several things in those few weeks), it had to be the cheapest house, no renting, and we all moved together on the 1st. No compromises.
> 
> I know that I’m not happy. I don’t know if it’s the move, the fact that I’m getting closer to 40 and hitting that mid-life phase, or all of the above, but I genuinely don’t feel like I like him or love him. I’m totally just going though the motions, and not very well. He rightfully tells me that I don’t appreciate him or support him anymore, but since he forced me to move and didn’t care about my needs (and proceeded to tell people that the last house sold itself and that I didn’t really do any work) I just have a hard time even faking it anymore. I have been in therapy myself, I went to my doctor and asked for antidepressants, but she told me that she doesn’t feel that I need them, and that I really don’t seem depressed, which my therapist agrees with. They both feel it’s situational. We have been going to couples counseling for almost 5 months. I suspect he is depressed, and he has read some books and began drinking tea (of which I don’t constantly praise him for, and he feels that I’m not supporting and unappreciative, which is true), but he won’t go to therapy.
> 
> We have a decent life, we are frugally upper middle class without the nice things, but I often feel guilty that I should just be happy with what I have. His family and mine have both stayed with us recently, and every person has made comments that he does not seem happy, he yells way too much at the kids, and that I seem depressed (which I have been). My mother recently confided that she always thought that the cliche that opposites attract is BS, and that we have always just been way too different. I’m a go-getter and a hustler, and I put 100% effort into everything and everyone, and my husband is much more lazy (although he has a great job, which is his defense that he isn’t lazy although he does nothing else). If it’s not important to him or his job, he often half-asses it, which is extremely frustrating to me. She also feels (which she just told me now - a little too late, huh- that she doesn’t feel like he has ever been in love with me, and even cards he gives me always just say things like "thanks for all that you do” or “I love our family”. He has no pictures of me on his phone, and now I’m even questioning if he ever loved me, or if he’s just dependent. He’s extremely passive aggressive, but passive with everyone else (to the point of being spineless) and then takes out his aggression and frustrations on me. That doesn’t feel like love. I do think I did love him, but I feel like he’s a completely different person from when we met, and the stresses of adulthood and having a family have done too much harm.
> 
> I’m not happy, and I don’t think he is. We have young kids, and I don’t want to divorce and cause them problems that they will deal with into adulthood, but I also don’t want to model a loveless marriage or have them grow up with us constantly fighting. I know that it won’t be easier if we divorce, and I will be doing even more than I already am if I’m a single mom, but I also don’t want to go through life being unhappy. I keep thinking maybe this is just a rough patch or a phase. I’m so unhappy, and I don’t want to just give up on marriage or hurt my kids, but I also don’t love him or want to work on the marriage. I want him to be a different person, and that’s not fair. I know that’s my fault, but what do I do now? I’m working on me and trying to be as happy as I can with my life (which I am) except for my marriage and husband.
> 
> Thanks for reading my extremely long-winded post that likely has too many details.


----------



## MEM2020

Does he have generalized anxiety disorder?





sadandlonely5 said:


> I agree with what you have said. I don’t think he would flounder in any financially, as he is very fiscally conservative and paranoid about debt and never saving enough. We are both very well educated and responsible, and he is a good father (he has some issues with hovering too much and yelling at the kids too much/being very strict which comes from how he was raised, but otherwise a great parent) and he does love the kids more than anything. He would absolutely be involved in their life and likely want some kind of shared custody. We are both 100% focused on the kids and make good choices in life, so I don’t think there would be any issue with us coparenting very well together. If we do split up, I would hope and try to do so in the most amicable way possible, as I don’t hate him and there is no terrible animosity between us, we are just so very different in so many ways, and his passive/scared little boy attitude about everything in life is just very difficult to live with.
> 
> If you look in a dictionary for “helicopter mom”, my MIL would have her picture in there; she was a helicopter mom before they were a thing in the late 70’s/early 80’s. She never let her kids ride the bus to school, had absolutely no life or friends outside of their kids, and they did everything for their kids, including their homework and making all life choices. My husband still talks to his dad several times a week, and they still pay for cell phones and car insurance for his siblings, including full time free babysitting and financial support.
> 
> We talked about all of this ad nausea before we got married, and he was much more social and seemed independent and wanted to be nothing like his family, but having to get a real job after school, marriage, kids and moving to a city where we knew no one and had to start over seems to have regressed him back to what he knew. I have always believed that people go one of two ways: they go with what they know, or rebel against. I’m the ultimate rebel (in a positive sense, wanting better for myself and to improve upon shortcomings of how I was raised or my status in life) and he wound up going with what he knew, and turning into his parents (who are nice people, but not my cup of tea, and did absolutely no favors for their children). This causes many conflicts in our relationship, including how we want to raise and treat the children. And this is my dilemma.


----------



## sadandlonely5

x598 said:


> OP,
> 
> 
> 
> you mention him "getting off his phone to help a child while you are in the bathroom".........WHY? what if he was on an importnant business call or whatever.......is your child going to die if they are pitching a fit because they spilled their juice? I dont think so. then again, maybe what he was doing was trivial....but i am just pointing out that here again YOUR expectations are the deciding factor and not necessarily the way things HAVE to be.
> 
> i hear you about a loss of passion and attraction in your marriage. Its a death spiral. the issue is....hold on here you wont like this.....YOU HAD A HAND in this coming about.
> 
> everything i read in your posts is all about you blaming him and your expectations not being met. Even worse you talk about "wonderful opportunity to stay home" and then turn around and bi&%h about what you have given up to do so. You cant have it both ways.
> 
> I am offering much of your happiness is coming from within you and being blamed on your husband. Its a true recipe for divorce, and then you will find out after you are single the grass wasn't any greener after all. take care of your grass and water it....thats where it grows best.


There is a lot of guilt in the mom world about being a SAHM vs working mom, and some men (even on this site from comments I have read) seem to think that women are ungrateful that they have the opportunity to stay at home or work from home, even if it involves sacrifice. I was just trying to convey that I’m not taking for granted that I could have to work and still do most things myself and be in a relationship that’s not working, and I have been looking for work, so I’m not some spoiled housewife who likes to complain. I have good friends that had no choice but to work (one because of gambling debts her husband got them into), so I’m just being proactive and trying to convey that I don’t take things for granted. 

You are absolutely correct that I had a hand in this coming about. I am not denying that. I have stated in my first post that I have not been able to be supportive or give him the praise and recognition and fulfill his love languages since things have drastically gone down hill in the past year. I have thought about breaking up and divorce for most of the relationship at some points, but I though that was normal for some people to have doubts or even briefly think about walking away when problems arise. I keep trying to fake it or act like I am still interested, but a part of me feels completely dead inside towards him, and I can’t get that back as much as I’ve tried. I can be judgmental, and I am very defensive when being criticized. I have a hard time not becoming defensive (I grew up having to be very independent and defend myself after my father died as a teenager), and I fall into a repetitious pattern of trying to explain myself or defend myself. He tells me that I don’t show appreciation in ways that make him feel appreciated, and that saying thank you or smiling and giving him a hug aren’t enough. I don’t. I feel that I gave so much for so long, and I just have nothing left to give. That is not fair to either one of us. He is finally starting to try to make small changes, but it just feels like it’s far too little too late. I don’t truly show him appreciation for trying to change. I keep trying to, but it feels forced, and I feel like I’m lying. 

I thought that it was better to have someone who did the little things, since many people who shout their love from the rooftops or do acts of devotion or showed PDA or passion were trying to hard. Those little things disappeared over time, and I fell into more of a mother role than a lover in his life.

I am not just bored or wanting a bad boy in my life or anything extreme like that, and I would never throw away a marriage because we are going through a tough time, but it just makes me so sad sometimes that we have no happiness. There is no laughter, joking fun or joy at any point. I just want someone who makes me laugh. I just want to have friends and family around, and to have fun together. 

He wants more sex and appreciation, and I don’t genuinely give those (I do have sex, but I always fake it, and I have not had any desire to have sex in years, I just do it every week or two for him). There is no passion or romance from either of us, just unaffectionate kisses with no tongue. I keep thinking back to the times he yelled at me or criticized me, or feeling like I things I’m interested are unimportant or not interesting to him, and I can’t get past those feelings of hurt. I’ve been in therapy. We’ve been in couples therapy. I am trying. Genuinely. I just don’t know how to make myself fall in love with someone that I don’t feel has any respect for me. I don’t feel like I have a partner or any support at all from him. We are roommates that barely get along.

I grew up with good memories of holidays and family parties, and I feel guilty that we have non eo that; we just seem to be so quiet, sad, lonely and boring as a family, and there is no laughter at the table, no jokes or real kisses or hugs. I don't know which is worse for all of us - staying together and just going through the motions because it’s what you are supposed to do - or what is supposed to be better for the kids, or going our separate ways (while co parenting) and having to deal with the pain and sadness of divorce, having to feel like I failed and hurt him, and being a single mother.


----------



## sadandlonely5

MEM2020 said:


> Does he have generalized anxiety disorder?


That’s a good question. He has never gone to therapy or talked about it with anyone, but I don’t think it’s out of the question. In my opinion, he does suffer from depression, low self esteem/lack of confidence, and he does not handle crowds or meeting people very well. He will do just about anything to remove himself from a situation when meeting someone he doesn’t like socially, and I always felt like he had a mild case of Aspergers (interestingly, his nephew is on the spectrum as officially diagnosed with PDD/NOS).

He doesn’t have friends outside of those related to his job, none from growing up, and he can come off as rude or standoffish with others. One of my friends recently told me that her husband does’t care for mine, saying he is “not very friendly and doesn’t like him”. When we went to a (MY) friend’s house for a party over the summer, he could not even make small talk with her husband, and walked away and wouldn’t talk to him and avoided him the whole night. We went to another one of my friends houses last week overnight, and he seems to wander around, not really watching the game with the guys (he is obsessed with sports and is always looking at stats on his phone), and just kind of awkwardly walked around the house for a while before passing out early on the couch. If we are in a crowded place, he seems miserable, walks into others and never says he’s sorry or “excuse me”. He has a calendar for everything, and it must be on the calendar. If we deviate from routines or plans, he gets very upset and doesn’t hide it at all. His immediate family is socially awkward, his sister is rude and self-obsessed, and the entire immediate family doesn't have many friends or a life outside of their family, but I just thought it was just his family when we were dating, since he did have some friends from grad school and he seemed to be more relaxed, outgoing and fun. 

I always have to remind him that it’s not what he says, but how he says it, and he can be harsh, critical and has admitted to being selfish and not handled having to adult and have a real career and family very well. I feel like I carry the emotional weight for both of us in the relationship and with the kids. I feel very unsupported, unloved, and alone. We sit in silence most nights, and when we do talk about things, they often become tense or end up in a fight or me feeling like he gets upset unexpectedly. It’s exhausting and lonely.

Does that sound like GAD?


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## pragmaticGoddess

I’m coming up to 10 years of marriage and I think when you know each other for so long you need a refreshing in the marriage. 

When you have conversations with your husband does it spiral into an argument because he’s expecting that you would be asking something of him? So you talk to him to tell him what you need, how unhappy you are or because you truly want to know what he has to say?

It sounds like there is a lot of resentment in your marriage. You, for not being able to complete tour studies. Him, for not feeling he’s the man of the house. Your husband might feel he’s just good as the money he makes. 

I think a lot of couples do this wrongly: one doesn’t get their needs met and withhold affection leading to the other further withholding their affection and emotional disconnect is created. 

I understand for some might divorce might be the lesser of two evils, but how powerful would it be if the children see their parents in a rough patch but becoming stronger through it? Ultimately it is your choice and your situation is not one to debate the harm of divorce.


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## x598

sadandlonely5 said:


> There is a lot of guilt in the mom world about being a SAHM vs working mom, and some men (even on this site from comments I have read) seem to think that women are ungrateful that they have the opportunity to stay at home or work from home, even if it involves sacrifice. I was just trying to convey that I’m not taking for granted that I could have to work and still do most things myself and be in a relationship that’s not working, and I have been looking for work, so I’m not some spoiled housewife who likes to complain. I have good friends that had no choice but to work (one because of gambling debts her husband got them into), so I’m just being proactive and trying to convey that I don’t take things for granted.
> 
> You are absolutely correct that I had a hand in this coming about. I am not denying that. I have stated in my first post that I have not been able to be supportive or give him the praise and recognition and fulfill his love languages since things have drastically gone down hill in the past year. I have thought about breaking up and divorce for most of the relationship at some points, but I though that was normal for some people to have doubts or even briefly think about walking away when problems arise. I keep trying to fake it or act like I am still interested, but a part of me feels completely dead inside towards him, and I can’t get that back as much as I’ve tried. I can be judgmental, and I am very defensive when being criticized. I have a hard time not becoming defensive (I grew up having to be very independent and defend myself after my father died as a teenager), and I fall into a repetitious pattern of trying to explain myself or defend myself. He tells me that I don’t show appreciation in ways that make him feel appreciated, and that saying thank you or smiling and giving him a hug aren’t enough. I don’t. I feel that I gave so much for so long, and I just have nothing left to give. That is not fair to either one of us. He is finally starting to try to make small changes, but it just feels like it’s far too little too late. I don’t truly show him appreciation for trying to change. I keep trying to, but it feels forced, and I feel like I’m lying.
> 
> I thought that it was better to have someone who did the little things, since many people who shout their love from the rooftops or do acts of devotion or showed PDA or passion were trying to hard. Those little things disappeared over time, and I fell into more of a mother role than a lover in his life.
> 
> I am not just bored or wanting a bad boy in my life or anything extreme like that, and I would never throw away a marriage because we are going through a tough time, but it just makes me so sad sometimes that we have no happiness. There is no laughter, joking fun or joy at any point. I just want someone who makes me laugh. I just want to have friends and family around, and to have fun together.
> 
> He wants more sex and appreciation, and I don’t genuinely give those (I do have sex, but I always fake it, and I have not had any desire to have sex in years, I just do it every week or two for him). There is no passion or romance from either of us, just unaffectionate kisses with no tongue. I keep thinking back to the times he yelled at me or criticized me, or feeling like I things I’m interested are unimportant or not interesting to him, and I can’t get past those feelings of hurt. I’ve been in therapy. We’ve been in couples therapy. I am trying. Genuinely. I just don’t know how to make myself fall in love with someone that I don’t feel has any respect for me. I don’t feel like I have a partner or any support at all from him. We are roommates that barely get along.
> 
> I grew up with good memories of holidays and family parties, and I feel guilty that we have non eo that; we just seem to be so quiet, sad, lonely and boring as a family, and there is no laughter at the table, no jokes or real kisses or hugs. I don't know which is worse for all of us - staying together and just going through the motions because it’s what you are supposed to do - or what is supposed to be better for the kids, or going our separate ways (while co parenting) and having to deal with the pain and sadness of divorce, having to feel like I failed and hurt him, and being a single mother.


OP,

one thing i have earned after being around here a while is what i call the "i just thought syndrome". Let me explain. I have seen countless times where a spouse writes about an issue where "I just thought it was better to have someone who did XYZ" (see that anywhere in your post?) but the problem is..........maybe thats the way YOU see it, but that doesnt mean other people see it that way or even that your view is actually correct. It is then gone on with all sorts of justifications as to why one thinks things should be a certain way when it isnt necessarily so.

Look, do not mistake me for sticking up for your spouse, or giving him a pass in this because I am not. I have not doubt he feels depressed, frustrated, probably nagged, and completely shut down to you. This mess is his doing as much as it is YOURS. The behaviors you have described comes from someone who is at a loss what to do to solve the issue, reconnect and find happiness.They simply go on, agitated, moody and simply going through the motions of existing.

Sine we only have your side of the story and not his, I am sure he could come here and write a laundry list of grievances he has with you as you have done with him. You have even admitted to not being a supportive and caring spouse. ever hear the saying two wrongs don't make a right? my guess would be all the things you have posted negatively about him come from many years of being together and every little thing he does to tick you off is ingrained in you instead of most of it put in the past.

It's good that you have taken the initiative to go to counseling, and he needs to as well. I would bet his hesitation is he believes he will just find himself backed into a corner and beaten down by going. you need to explain that this wont be the case and you are there to learn and improve the relationship and not WIN an argument.

i also challenge you to open up to him about this place and let him come here and post his side of the story. think of it this way, can it do any more damage, or possibly take both your thinking in a different direction and maybe save your marriage.


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## Honda750

oldshirt said:


> In some ways you two sound a lot like my wife and I and I could see my wife writing much of what you wrote - except I would be fine with renting until we found a good place and I would have no problems with two weeks of peace and quiet if you stayed back.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there is an actual solution here. You two are so different in your attitudes and personalities and the way you view the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Would he be perfectly happy in a one room apartment, heating up a can of beef stew and eating it out of the pan in front of the TV or video game or something?
> 
> 
> 
> If so, you two may just have very different life goals and temperments on how you want to live your life. I don't know if there is really any reconciliation here.
> 
> 
> 
> There probably is no solution here where he somehow transforms into an ambitious, go-getter that is on the roof repairing shingles and going to Ikea every weekend looking for new countertops and basement storage solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> But it is not too much to ask that he step up and be an adult and take on a reasonable share of the household responsibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> He can definitely grow up and take on some of the adult tasks that need to be done in the home and in the family. If he were on his own, he would have to pay bills and keep the car running and keep the kitchen clean enough to keep the bugs away and keep his laundry clean enough he wasn't stinking up the office at work.
> 
> 
> 
> However you would have to do those things on your own if you were living separately as well. You're not getting a lot of help now with him under the same roof and you would definitely not get any help from him living separately.
> 
> 
> 
> So one of the first questions you need to ask yourself is are you better off with him or would you be in a better position and have a better life one your own and having shared custody of the kids? (I am taking the assumption he would want at least some custody of the kids. But maybe he wouldn't. Maybe he would be ok with periodic visitation and paying child support)




Go see a marriage counselor ASAP


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sadandlonely5

Honda750 said:


> Go see a marriage counselor ASAP
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


We have seen a marriage counselor for months, but it’s not helping, and things are only getting worse. After talking to my therapist (solo for me) and some old friends and family, I have started to realize that I am married to an introverted narcissist, and his main way of controlling me is passive aggression. He spent over an hour talking to me about taking a trip with my mom and the kids (100% his idea - I hadn’t even considered it), convincing me I should go, and I even asked him to confirm that I should make the plans. I then text my mother to ask her about going with me, and he completely flips out - while we were on vacation, in the middle of Disney World, telling me that I should have slept on it first, I should have asked him/talked to him about it before making plans, yelling at me (people everywhere were staring at us) and then proceeded to ignore me the rest of the night. When we finally get back to to the hotel, and I’m sad and depressed, he finally apologizes, BUT while telling me that I should think before I text and talk to him first before making plans. 

He does things like this all of the time. He will say he wants to go out to a Christmas festival in our town, and then when he is there he will literally sit there with a scowl on his face and not talk to me because we are having dinner too late, and we aren’t going to be home early enough to put the kids to bed, etc. He clearly didn’t want to go, but he had to come. I can’t go by myself, but he will come and then be miserable and let me know that he didn't want to be there.

I know it seems like I’m blaming him for everything and taking no blame, but it’s very hard because I feel like I’m always getting blamed, and I really don’t know what is or isn’t my fault anymore, or what I can work on. If I ask him for help, I’m helpless. If I do things myself or ask him to do things, I’m controlling. I can’t pick out a chair or a wall frame without his opinion/approval, and if I don’t like something, from a chair to a huge purchase like the house, it doesn’t matter, because we get what he wants, even if I hate it. When he does do something I want, he is miserable and makes me regret choosing it or asking him to come. He’s very passive aggressive and selfish, although he’s also an introvert and not very friendly and is hot and cold. Sometimes he’s nice, sometimes he’s downright mean. 

My mother doesn’t like the way he treats me and that fact that he has no patience with the kids and snaps at them a lot, and says that she thinks that the expression that opposites attract is not true, at least not in the long term. She told me last week that she thinks he reminds her of her father, who was very antisocial and never seemed to like kids, although he did love them in his own way.

If I ask him to go take the girls and see my sister (in another city), he says I’m abandoning him or trying to get away. If I beg him to go visit some friends, or go to a movie, or do anything by himself, he says I’m trying to get rid of him. The other night, I begged him to go back home for a weekend and see some guy friends, that maybe that would help him be happy and to have fun, and he told me he never wants to go anywhere without me. When I told him that I haven’t even spent one night away with my friends in 5 years since I was pregnant, he tells me that I’m not 20 anymore, and that we don’t drink or dance or have fun, because now we have kids. I don’t “drink”, I might go out to a restaurant and have a glass of wine with an acquaintance friend once a month, but because he chose to not drink anymore and chooses to not have any friends and to be rude and standoffish to anyone he meets, he makes me feel guilty for going out at all. He’s not friendly or nice and doesn’t get along with any of my friends’ husbands (some don’t like him so much they won’t come if he’s around) and we have no couple friends, so I see my friends by myself or not at all.

We moved to a city in a smaller town in the deep south where we know no one and have no friends or family near by, and I feel completely isolated and alone. He opened all accounts in only his name except for the checking and savings, which are joint, with him listed first. When I asked him why I wasn’t listed on the accounts or why they weren’t opened up as joint accounts, he claims he didn’t realize or that he thought he did. He makes very good money, and I budget and save scrupulously, and we live very modestly (he freaks out about not having enough money even though we are doing great financially) and made us buy the cheapest house we saw even though it has cheap construction and issues that have already cost us money in the 6 months we have been here (the house is 2 years old and already had a leak in the roof and plumbing issues). He yells at me that we don’t have enough money saved, so I clip coupons and am meticulous with budgeting. 

He keeps telling me that I’m not happy and that I’m a miserable person, and asking me what it’s going to take or where we have to move for me to be happy. His own family and parents think that he’s not happy, but he says he is and that I’m not happy. I am happy, when he’s not around. I’m happy when I’m with my friends, or I’m socializing. I’m happy looking for work. I’m very happy with my kids. I dread when he comes home from work. We don’t talk at night, and I try my best to avoid him because I never know if we are just going to talk like roommates and it goes well, or it’s going to turn into a fight or snark or criticism.

I don’t know how I got here, because I was very confident, independent and strong, and definitely not a codependent type. It didn’t happen overnight, it was so slow and gradual that I honestly didn’t see it coming, but now I just think that I chose wrong. I went for the safe guy who won’t cheat you or beat you, but who also loved to constantly “tease me”, and “jokingly” make fun of me, which just turned to true criticism and a disregard for my feelings or wants. I now have to get his approval on almost everything, and if I make decisions without him, he gets mad or accuses me of being controlling or going behind his back. He’s very hot and cold, and whenever I ask him about having his own friends or having couple friends, he says he doesn’t want any friends. 

I often get told “you knew what you were getting”, and “you knew I was a cranky old man”, and maybe I just didn’t want to see it. I saw the friends he had in school and his willingness to go along with me and to have fun as long as I bore all of the responsibility, the career and paid most of the bills, and I thought that we had fun together. There were some red flags, but I thought all relationships involve compromise, and there is no perfect guy out there, and I have plenty of flaws as well. Now I constantly go back in my mind looking for clues, things I missed and things I overlooked or compromised on that I shouldn’t have.

The worst part is that most of the accounts are in his name, except for the checking account which is joint. We moved more than 4 hours away from any friends or family for his job, to a town I really hate in a house that I hate and did not want to buy. I have been looking for work, but because I have been out of the work force for almost 5 years, I will likely only make about $45k a year if that to start with. He wants to use most of our savings to make bulk payments on his student loans, but that will leave us with only about $25k in savings, which is much less if we split and divide the savings in half. I am trying to find a job, figure out the details and logistics of how I will support 2 young kids myself with no close friends or family nearby and how to protect myself financially. I am also extremely nervous about how he is going to handle it when I tell him that I want a divorce, as he is extremely attached and refuses to have any friends or support network or life outside of me.

I have no idea how I got here as a strong, confident independent woman who had a great life, friends, fun and didn’t need anyone or anything. I had a great job, money saved, zero debt and never in a million years thought I would end up here. My miserable marriage consumes all of my thoughts, and I am so miserable. I can’t believe I’m with someone who yells at me in front of others and gets mad if I transfer money from savings to checking to pay a large bill, even if we both talked about it a week or two before. 

I know this sounds like a woe is me, and that I’m the victim and did nothing wrong, and that is not true. As many have commented, I have definitely played a part in it, but I still can’t help feeling like a victim because I genuinely didn’t see it coming, and when I did, it was too late because he made the money, it was all in his name (even though it was “our money”) and we have had to move several times for his job. I don’t know where the line is drawn between compromising and sacrificing for the other person or for their career, and when the line has been crossed to losing part of yourself and constantly feeling sad, depressed and losing self esteem. I can honestly say that I was one of those people who judged and thought, how could the person not know? How do you not just walk away? But it’s not easy. And sometimes you don’t know what happened until it was too late.


----------



## Honda750

sadandlonely5 said:


> We have seen a marriage counselor for months, but it’s not helping, and things are only getting worse. After talking to my therapist (solo for me) and some old friends and family, I have started to realize that I am married to an introverted narcissist, and his main way of controlling me is passive aggression. He spent over an hour talking to me about taking a trip with my mom and the kids (100% his idea - I hadn’t even considered it), convincing me I should go, and I even asked him to confirm that I should make the plans. I then text my mother to ask her about going with me, and he completely flips out - while we were on vacation, in the middle of Disney World, telling me that I should have slept on it first, I should have asked him/talked to him about it before making plans, yelling at me (people everywhere were staring at us) and then proceeded to ignore me the rest of the night. When we finally get back to to the hotel, and I’m sad and depressed, he finally apologizes, BUT while telling me that I should think before I text and talk to him first before making plans.
> 
> He does things like this all of the time. He will say he wants to go out to a Christmas festival in our town, and then when he is there he will literally sit there with a scowl on his face and not talk to me because we are having dinner too late, and we aren’t going to be home early enough to put the kids to bed, etc. He clearly didn’t want to go, but he had to come. I can’t go by myself, but he will come and then be miserable and let me know that he didn't want to be there.
> 
> I know it seems like I’m blaming him for everything and taking no blame, but it’s very hard because I feel like I’m always getting blamed, and I really don’t know what is or isn’t my fault anymore, or what I can work on. If I ask him for help, I’m helpless. If I do things myself or ask him to do things, I’m controlling. I can’t pick out a chair or a wall frame without his opinion/approval, and if I don’t like something, from a chair to a huge purchase like the house, it doesn’t matter, because we get what he wants, even if I hate it. When he does do something I want, he is miserable and makes me regret choosing it or asking him to come. He’s very passive aggressive and selfish, although he’s also an introvert and not very friendly and is hot and cold. Sometimes he’s nice, sometimes he’s downright mean.
> 
> My mother doesn’t like the way he treats me and that fact that he has no patience with the kids and snaps at them a lot, and says that she thinks that the expression that opposites attract is not true, at least not in the long term. She told me last week that she thinks he reminds her of her father, who was very antisocial and never seemed to like kids, although he did love them in his own way.
> 
> If I ask him to go take the girls and see my sister (in another city), he says I’m abandoning him or trying to get away. If I beg him to go visit some friends, or go to a movie, or do anything by himself, he says I’m trying to get rid of him. The other night, I begged him to go back home for a weekend and see some guy friends, that maybe that would help him be happy and to have fun, and he told me he never wants to go anywhere without me. When I told him that I haven’t even spent one night away with my friends in 5 years since I was pregnant, he tells me that I’m not 20 anymore, and that we don’t drink or dance or have fun, because now we have kids. I don’t “drink”, I might go out to a restaurant and have a glass of wine with an acquaintance friend once a month, but because he chose to not drink anymore and chooses to not have any friends and to be rude and standoffish to anyone he meets, he makes me feel guilty for going out at all. He’s not friendly or nice and doesn’t get along with any of my friends’ husbands (some don’t like him so much they won’t come if he’s around) and we have no couple friends, so I see my friends by myself or not at all.
> 
> We moved to a city in a smaller town in the deep south where we know no one and have no friends or family near by, and I feel completely isolated and alone. He opened all accounts in only his name except for the checking and savings, which are joint, with him listed first. When I asked him why I wasn’t listed on the accounts or why they weren’t opened up as joint accounts, he claims he didn’t realize or that he thought he did. He makes very good money, and I budget and save scrupulously, and we live very modestly (he freaks out about not having enough money even though we are doing great financially) and made us buy the cheapest house we saw even though it has cheap construction and issues that have already cost us money in the 6 months we have been here (the house is 2 years old and already had a leak in the roof and plumbing issues). He yells at me that we don’t have enough money saved, so I clip coupons and am meticulous with budgeting.
> 
> He keeps telling me that I’m not happy and that I’m a miserable person, and asking me what it’s going to take or where we have to move for me to be happy. His own family and parents think that he’s not happy, but he says he is and that I’m not happy. I am happy, when he’s not around. I’m happy when I’m with my friends, or I’m socializing. I’m happy looking for work. I’m very happy with my kids. I dread when he comes home from work. We don’t talk at night, and I try my best to avoid him because I never know if we are just going to talk like roommates and it goes well, or it’s going to turn into a fight or snark or criticism.
> 
> I don’t know how I got here, because I was very confident, independent and strong, and definitely not a codependent type. It didn’t happen overnight, it was so slow and gradual that I honestly didn’t see it coming, but now I just think that I chose wrong. I went for the safe guy who won’t cheat you or beat you, but who also loved to constantly “tease me”, and “jokingly” make fun of me, which just turned to true criticism and a disregard for my feelings or wants. I now have to get his approval on almost everything, and if I make decisions without him, he gets mad or accuses me of being controlling or going behind his back. He’s very hot and cold, and whenever I ask him about having his own friends or having couple friends, he says he doesn’t want any friends.
> 
> I often get told “you knew what you were getting”, and “you knew I was a cranky old man”, and maybe I just didn’t want to see it. I saw the friends he had in school and his willingness to go along with me and to have fun as long as I bore all of the responsibility, the career and paid most of the bills, and I thought that we had fun together. There were some red flags, but I thought all relationships involve compromise, and there is no perfect guy out there, and I have plenty of flaws as well. Now I constantly go back in my mind looking for clues, things I missed and things I overlooked or compromised on that I shouldn’t have.
> 
> The worst part is that most of the accounts are in his name, except for the checking account which is joint. We moved more than 4 hours away from any friends or family for his job, to a town I really hate in a house that I hate and did not want to buy. I have been looking for work, but because I have been out of the work force for almost 5 years, I will likely only make about $45k a year if that to start with. He wants to use most of our savings to make bulk payments on his student loans, but that will leave us with only about $25k in savings, which is much less if we split and divide the savings in half. I am trying to find a job, figure out the details and logistics of how I will support 2 young kids myself with no close friends or family nearby and how to protect myself financially. I am also extremely nervous about how he is going to handle it when I tell him that I want a divorce, as he is extremely attached and refuses to have any friends or support network or life outside of me.
> 
> I have no idea how I got here as a strong, confident independent woman who had a great life, friends, fun and didn’t need anyone or anything. I had a great job, money saved, zero debt and never in a million years thought I would end up here. My miserable marriage consumes all of my thoughts, and I am so miserable. I can’t believe I’m with someone who yells at me in front of others and gets mad if I transfer money from savings to checking to pay a large bill, even if we both talked about it a week or two before.
> 
> I know this sounds like a woe is me, and that I’m the victim and did nothing wrong, and that is not true. As many have commented, I have definitely played a part in it, but I still can’t help feeling like a victim because I genuinely didn’t see it coming, and when I did, it was too late because he made the money, it was all in his name (even though it was “our money”) and we have had to move several times for his job. I don’t know where the line is drawn between compromising and sacrificing for the other person or for their career, and when the line has been crossed to losing part of yourself and constantly feeling sad, depressed and losing self esteem. I can honestly say that I was one of those people who judged and thought, how could the person not know? How do you not just walk away? But it’s not easy. And sometimes you don’t know what happened until it was too late.




Lady you need a change ........ Don’t let him drag you down with him ! I’m in a terrible situation myself with a bipolar wife , saved her from the jailhouse about 5 years ago , she’s not done one lick to get reemployed and help me with the terrible credit card mess , I’m at my wits end with it and hate to hear of your troubles , we’re in a short life here , the years are quickly gone and you won’t get them back ! Good luck and keep your chin up ! Feel welcome to pm me anytime .......... 


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## 3Xnocharm

Honda Im glad you commented on this thread... @sadandlonely5, how are things going for you?


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## Honda750

3Xnocharm said:


> Honda Im glad you commented on this thread... @sadandlonely5, how are things going for you?




Yes Thank you ! I’m still in a state of uncertainty and doubt , my efforts to get her to return to work and start paying her side of the damages is very slow on her part , almost as if she’s trying to use this situation to entitle her safety by sticking around longer ? 
I need to get out of this , I’m getting older and resenting this more and more , it’s a very tough deal but I’m keeping my head in one place and able to work my job ........... Hope your situation has improved ? 


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## Honda750

3Xnocharm said:


> Honda Im glad you commented on this thread... @sadandlonely5, how are things going for you?




I fly to Omaha quite frequently it’s one of my favorite layover towns ! I used to live in Indy but I’ve been in Memphis since 1989 ..........


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## Honda750

3Xnocharm said:


> Honda Im glad you commented on this thread... @sadandlonely5, how are things going for you?




How’s it going with you ? I’m in Omaha today , leaving tonight back to Memphis .......... 


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## Violet28

Visit a lawyer and see what your options, especially about the accounts in his name only.


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## Honda750

Violet28 said:


> Visit a lawyer and see what your options, especially about the accounts in his name only.




You’d be surprised at what you don’t know when it comes down to marietal debts .......... I’m still paying mine down , it’s a real bummer 


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## sokillme

If it were me I would be starting to look for a job. You need a life, that is probably part of your resentment. Lots of kids grow up with two working parents. This is not the 50s, he is just not mature enough for you to be able to do this successfully. Besides all that you are too dependent on him.


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## Violet28

Honda750 said:


> You’d be surprised at what you don’t know when it comes down to marietal debts .......... I’m still paying mine down , it’s a real bummer
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You might be surprised at what you find out about what he has in the accounts your not on. Debt doesn't really matter in the divorce unless it's marital debt, did you cosign for his loans? Alimony, assets and child support do matter, especially if he makes a good living and you've been a stay at home mom.


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## red oak

sadandlonely5 said:


> *He has a very good job and makes a lot of money, but he goes to work, makes dinner some nights, helps very minimally with bedtime for the kids, and does his own laundry. *
> 
> Since my oldest was born I have not worked. We last moved this summer, and I sold the house by myself and did everything myself (including dealing with all workers for the house from exterminators to plumbers. I pay all the bills, manage our finances, deal with everything regarding home maintenance, the kids, buy everything for the house, make all appointments and plans for the family, pretty much everything. I even helped him look for his last job for over a year.
> 
> When we met, he had a some friends from when he was in school, and *we had a lot of fun* and he was a somewhat social (though more shy/introverted with people he didn’t know well) when we dated. I had the career and more money, and he had no adult responsibilities, and everything was good. He dragged his feet for two years waiting to propose, and he made comments after my oldest was born that if we had waited just x amount longer, we could have had more time in the last city to enjoy it without kids. He has no more friends and *puts no effort into maintaining or making friendships,* and has no hobbies and does not leave the house. It’s work or family time, and that’s it. *He has become extremely boring,* we argue all of the time (literally almost every conversation, no matter how benign, turns into an argument or snide comments from both of us) and I often avoid talking because it rarely ends without an argument or attitude.


What did you love about him? Was it just the fun? From the boring statement it almost sounds like it.

You don't work. He does, yet he still does his own laundry, makes some dinners, helps "minimally" with the kids. 

What more do you want?


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## sadandlonely5

3Xnocharm said:


> Honda Im glad you commented on this thread... @sadandlonely5, how are things going for you?


I apologize that it has taken me so long to update, but I appreciate you checking in. I have been going to therapy for 7 months now, which has been going really well, and my therapist has been very supportive of me and has helped me to see what attracted me to him in the first place. We accept the love we think we deserve. I grew up with a mother who was not emotionally close and left me to my own devices, so I’ve repeated the same dynamic where I am the strong, resilient one who does everything for everyone else, but convinced myself that I don’t need someone who is overly affectionate, I don’t need someone to take care of me (because, of course, I’m never weak) and someone who puts me before themselves. I was so busy worrying about marrying someone like my father (who died when I was 11), that I married someone like my mother. I don’t want to change him, and I shouldn’t have to, but I just don’t see how staying with him is going to break this dynamic or give me what I need. Unless he were going to become a completely different person overnight, all of the years of feeling overlooked, berated, unappreciated and treated like his mother (in more ways than one) has done so much damage.

I am looking for a job very seriously, basically full time. I paid someone to rewrite my resume and update my LinkedIn back in October, and I have spent a lot of my free time trying to network and apply to jobs. It has been so much harder than I expected, and I had my very first phone interview today. I am putting all of my effort into finding a job, because 1) I really do need to get back to work for me, I have been SAHM for 5 1/2 years and have moved 4 times for his job, always supporting his career, and I need to take care of myself. I loved working, I had a great career in medical sales, made a lot of money (while he was still in school, so I was the breadwinner for the first 4-5 years of our relationship) and 2) regardless of what the lawyer assured me of, I would rather have a job and a means to support myself than just rely upon child support and alimony. He had a scare back in September with the new job he just started in July, and he thought he might have gotten fired. I can’t have my future and financial security completely dependent on someone else. His boss told him, and showed him with examples, that he messed up on some crucial things, and his response was to blame everything else (the software, the equipment, his boss making a big deal out of nothing, etc.) It’s very difficult to feel comfortable relying upon someone who can take no constructive criticism whatsoever or admit any wrongdoing. 

Things have not gotten better at all between us. I spoke to a divorce lawyer in October, and she answered a lot of questions for me, and assured me of what I would be entitled to in order to support my kids, exactly how child support is estimated in my state, and that I would likely get alimony, especially if I go back to school. I looked into going back to school to become a PA, since that was my original plan and my passion, but it would be far too cumbersome and expensive, I wouldn’t graduate for another 3 years at the earliest, and I would have to do 12 hour shifts on some rotations as a divorced parent with two young kids, so that isn’t feasible. I have a masters already, so I don’t want to waste more money and time on even more schooling. Hopefully I would still be entitled to some alimony in the beginning, since I will likely be making a low salary just trying to get back into the workforce, and he makes much more than I will. Again, I’m not a gold digger, I don’t want to take him to the cleaners, I really do just want enough to be able to support myself and the kids and to keep our moderate and strictly budgeted life intact (with at least a modest amount left over for me to still save for emergencies etc.)

I had a very serious conversation with him a few weeks ago and finally let him know that I’m not happy AT ALL, since I was trying to avoid that conversation and just avoid him for a few months. I was so tired of fighting, tired of my 5 year old making comments that we should get divorced, and yelling at daddy to stop yelling at mommy, and part of me inside just feels dead. I’m done. He realizes I’m not happy, so he tries to do small things like rub my shoulders or take me to dinner, take the kids to the playground for an hour himself, but no matter how many times I tell him to his face that we have nothing in common, we haven’t laughed or had fun together in years, all we do is fight, he generally yells too much at me and the kids and is a very unhappy person, and he argues that I’m just being negative, that I don’t see the positive in our lives, and that he’s still “In love with me”. I honestly think he does care about me, maybe even love me, but I don’t think he was ever in love with me, and maybe doesn’t know what love is. 

I have point blank told him that he needs to back off, stop trying to touch me, and stop doing the very, very recent nice things (he did this during therapy when I told him I was questioning our relationship last year, and the changes have yet to be permanent, so I’m very skeptical). He stopped drinking and yelling as much, but he has done that in the past as well, and it never lasts more than a month or so before he’s back to old behaviors. Then when he does something nice, I feel really guilty for not reciprocating or appreciating it, and for just cringing inside when he touches me. We both deserve better, but I just cannot help how I feel. Him touching me makes me cringe. I feel absolutely nothing when I look at or talk to him. 

I told him that we don’t have a foundation or a friendship, and that we can’t work on our relationship without working on the foundation or the friendship. He really keeps trying to do very minimal things like buy flowers for the first time in years, or go to dinner, which I know makes me sound like a b*tch, but you can’t just fix this with flowers or dinner and then just try to literally act like nothing happened, nothing has been said and pretend like this is just how life is supposed to be. It just feels like the bare minimum, like too little too late, and like he is only doing it because I’m upset. He likes his comfortable life where I do everything and he just puts in as little effort as possible and coasts in life. (FYI, there were red flags I chose to ignore. He was like this when we were dating, but because he had a good job/was in school, I made excuses while I worked full time, went to school at night, did most of the cooking and cleaning and planning/coordinating everything in our lives, paying all of the bills, budgeting, managing investments, etc.) 

I haven’t enjoyed or wanted to have sex in years, and even when we started dating, the sex was only ok and mostly initiated by me, but I compromised and thought that no guy is going to be perfect, and hey, he won’t cheat you or beat you. No, but he will bore you to death and be far too dependent and needy.

At the encouragement of my therapist, we are going to start couples therapy again with a different therapist on Thursday. I told my therapist that I’m just done, I have nothing left to give, I feel nothing for him at all in any way, and I just don’t see any hope in this marriage, and that I just want to be content in my own life, and not model a bad marriage for my kids. She told me that just asking for a divorce and taking all of the blame for the split lets him off of the hook, and would likely result in him blaming me for everything, and possibly in front of/to manipulate the kids. 

I made sure to talk to the couples therapist on the phone and to make sure that she will do individual session with us after the initial first session, so that I can make it clear that I’m not trying to work on the relationship, but work on our communication so that we can coparent well together and to end things as amicably and mature as possible for the kids. I also do genuinely want to improve our communication, as no matter how many times I try to tell him it’s not working, or specific examples of ways he made me feel bad, or even that he is generally more introverted, he absolutely denies them, gets mad/annoyed at me and I am not heard at all. 

At the end of the day, I just don’t like him as a person or love him anymore, and the thought of spending any time with him alone or even as a family makes me want to do nothing at all, and that is not like me. I’m a generally positive person who’s often up for an adventure, loves to make memories and have fun, and I’m very outgoing and love to spend time with my kids and my friends. Every city that I have moved to, I make new friends and help my kids integrate, make friends and develop bonds. I just can’t spend anymore time with someone so generally negative who has no friends, criticizes, yells, and spends most of his free time at home alone. I just want to be me again, and around people that make life worth living.


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## sokillme

sadandlonely5 said:


> I apologize that it has taken me so long to update, but I appreciate you checking in. I have been going to therapy for 7 months now, which has been going really well, and my therapist has been very supportive of me and has helped me to see what attracted me to him in the first place. We accept the love we think we deserve. I grew up with a mother who was not emotionally close and left me to my own devices, so I’ve repeated the same dynamic where I am the strong, resilient one who does everything for everyone else, but convinced myself that I don’t need someone who is overly affectionate, I don’t need someone to take care of me (because, of course, I’m never weak) and someone who puts me before themselves. I was so busy worrying about marrying someone like my father (who died when I was 11), that I married someone like my mother. I don’t want to change him, and I shouldn’t have to, but I just don’t see how staying with him is going to break this dynamic or give me what I need. Unless he were going to become a completely different person overnight, all of the years of feeling overlooked, berated, unappreciated and treated like his mother (in more ways than one) has done so much damage.
> 
> I am looking for a job very seriously, basically full time. I paid someone to rewrite my resume and update my LinkedIn back in October, and I have spent a lot of my free time trying to network and apply to jobs. It has been so much harder than I expected, and I had my very first phone interview today. I am putting all of my effort into finding a job, because 1) I really do need to get back to work for me, I have been SAHM for 5 1/2 years and have moved 4 times for his job, always supporting his career, and I need to take care of myself. I loved working, I had a great career in medical sales, made a lot of money (while he was still in school, so I was the breadwinner for the first 4-5 years of our relationship) and 2) regardless of what the lawyer assured me of, I would rather have a job and a means to support myself than just rely upon child support and alimony. He had a scare back in September with the new job he just started in July, and he thought he might have gotten fired. I can’t have my future and financial security completely dependent on someone else. His boss told him, and showed him with examples, that he messed up on some crucial things, and his response was to blame everything else (the software, the equipment, his boss making a big deal out of nothing, etc.) It’s very difficult to feel comfortable relying upon someone who can take no constructive criticism whatsoever or admit any wrongdoing.
> 
> Things have not gotten better at all between us. I spoke to a divorce lawyer in October, and she answered a lot of questions for me, and assured me of what I would be entitled to in order to support my kids, exactly how child support is estimated in my state, and that I would likely get alimony, especially if I go back to school. I looked into going back to school to become a PA, since that was my original plan and my passion, but it would be far too cumbersome and expensive, I wouldn’t graduate for another 3 years at the earliest, and I would have to do 12 hour shifts on some rotations as a divorced parent with two young kids, so that isn’t feasible. I have a masters already, so I don’t want to waste more money and time on even more schooling. Hopefully I would still be entitled to some alimony in the beginning, since I will likely be making a low salary just trying to get back into the workforce, and he makes much more than I will. Again, I’m not a gold digger, I don’t want to take him to the cleaners, I really do just want enough to be able to support myself and the kids and to keep our moderate and strictly budgeted life intact (with at least a modest amount left over for me to still save for emergencies etc.)
> 
> I had a very serious conversation with him a few weeks ago and finally let him know that I’m not happy AT ALL, since I was trying to avoid that conversation and just avoid him for a few months. I was so tired of fighting, tired of my 5 year old making comments that we should get divorced, and yelling at daddy to stop yelling at mommy, and part of me inside just feels dead. I’m done. He realizes I’m not happy, so he tries to do small things like rub my shoulders or take me to dinner, take the kids to the playground for an hour himself, but no matter how many times I tell him to his face that we have nothing in common, we haven’t laughed or had fun together in years, all we do is fight, he generally yells too much at me and the kids and is a very unhappy person, and he argues that I’m just being negative, that I don’t see the positive in our lives, and that he’s still “In love with me”. I honestly think he does care about me, maybe even love me, but I don’t think he was ever in love with me, and maybe doesn’t know what love is.
> 
> I have point blank told him that he needs to back off, stop trying to touch me, and stop doing the very, very recent nice things (he did this during therapy when I told him I was questioning our relationship last year, and the changes have yet to be permanent, so I’m very skeptical). He stopped drinking and yelling as much, but he has done that in the past as well, and it never lasts more than a month or so before he’s back to old behaviors. Then when he does something nice, I feel really guilty for not reciprocating or appreciating it, and for just cringing inside when he touches me. We both deserve better, but I just cannot help how I feel. Him touching me makes me cringe. I feel absolutely nothing when I look at or talk to him.
> 
> I told him that we don’t have a foundation or a friendship, and that we can’t work on our relationship without working on the foundation or the friendship. He really keeps trying to do very minimal things like buy flowers for the first time in years, or go to dinner, which I know makes me sound like a b*tch, but you can’t just fix this with flowers or dinner and then just try to literally act like nothing happened, nothing has been said and pretend like this is just how life is supposed to be. It just feels like the bare minimum, like too little too late, and like he is only doing it because I’m upset. He likes his comfortable life where I do everything and he just puts in as little effort as possible and coasts in life. (FYI, there were red flags I chose to ignore. He was like this when we were dating, but because he had a good job/was in school, I made excuses while I worked full time, went to school at night, did most of the cooking and cleaning and planning/coordinating everything in our lives, paying all of the bills, budgeting, managing investments, etc.)
> 
> I haven’t enjoyed or wanted to have sex in years, and even when we started dating, the sex was only ok and mostly initiated by me, but I compromised and thought that no guy is going to be perfect, and hey, he won’t cheat you or beat you. No, but he will bore you to death and be far too dependent and needy.
> 
> At the encouragement of my therapist, we are going to start couples therapy again with a different therapist on Thursday. I told my therapist that I’m just done, I have nothing left to give, I feel nothing for him at all in any way, and I just don’t see any hope in this marriage, and that I just want to be content in my own life, and not model a bad marriage for my kids. She told me that just asking for a divorce and taking all of the blame for the split lets him off of the hook, and would likely result in him blaming me for everything, and possibly in front of/to manipulate the kids.
> 
> I made sure to talk to the couples therapist on the phone and to make sure that she will do individual session with us after the initial first session, so that I can make it clear that I’m not trying to work on the relationship, but work on our communication so that we can coparent well together and to end things as amicably and mature as possible for the kids. I also do genuinely want to improve our communication, as no matter how many times I try to tell him it’s not working, or specific examples of ways he made me feel bad, or even that he is generally more introverted, he absolutely denies them, gets mad/annoyed at me and I am not heard at all.
> 
> *At the end of the day, I just don’t like him as a person or love him anymore, and the thought of spending any time with him alone or even as a family makes me want to do nothing at all, and that is not like me.* I’m a generally positive person who’s often up for an adventure, loves to make memories and have fun, and I’m very outgoing and love to spend time with my kids and my friends. Every city that I have moved to, I make new friends and help my kids integrate, make friends and develop bonds. I just can’t spend anymore time with someone so generally negative who has no friends, criticizes, yells, and spends most of his free time at home alone. I just want to be me again, and around people that make life worth living.


I think the bolded part says it all? I guess you are just staying for the kids? If he is verbally abusive you might want to think about what you are showing them.


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## sadandlonely5

sokillme said:


> I think the bolded part says it all? I guess you are just staying for the kids? If he is verbally abusive you might want to think about what you are showing them.


I’m not staying anymore. I have a plan. I am waiting until after the holidays and until I find a job, and then I plan on separating, and then divorcing. I have actually had a plan and have felt really good about it for a few months, but I’ve been stuck in this waiting mode. Yes, I could technically do all of that right now, but with having to put our dog down two months ago, the new move (and we moved last year also) and school for the kids, and with the holidays right around the corner, plus the adjustment time when I start a new job, I really don’t want to make things much more difficult or harder for everyone. There has been a lot of change, and there will be a lot more, and I don’t want to make things even harder or more confusing for the kids. 

I’m not making excuses (or at least I’m not trying to), I’m just trying to be as rational, logical, and realistic as possible, while thinking of the kids and myself. I have already met with a lawyer, and I have a strong plan, a good budget, I just need the pieces to fall into place. I think having the job will just make me feel more secure about going on my own, and give me somewhere positive to put my energy other than just my kids while I go through a divorce.


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## sokillme

sadandlonely5 said:


> I’m not staying anymore. I have a plan. I am waiting until after the holidays and until I find a job, and then I plan on separating, and then divorcing. I have actually had a plan and have felt really good about it for a few months, but I’ve been stuck in this waiting mode. Yes, I could technically do all of that right now, but with having to put our dog down two months ago, the new move and school for the kids and with the holidays right around the corner, plus the adjustment time when I start a new job, I really don’t want to make things much more difficult or harder for everyone.
> 
> I’m not making excuses (or at least I’m not trying to), I’m just trying to be as rational, logical, and realistic as possible, while thinking of the kids and myself. I have already met with a lawyer, and I have a strong plan, a good budget, I just need the pieces to fall into place. I think having the job will just make me feel more secure about going on my own, and give me somewhere positive to put my energy other than just my kids while I go through a divorce.


Sound like you have it under control.

This should be a lesson to anyone reading. 

If you are taking your spouse for granted don't assume they will stay with you forever. 

But also if you are desperately unhappy tell your spouse, and right away. They also deserve a chance to change before the damage is done.

I wish you luck OP.


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## Adelais

Your story is very sad, and I can understand why you feel so lonely. Your husband took you for granted for too long, and didn't take your feelings seriously, and now it is too late for him. He does sound like a covert narcissist. 

True narcissists won't admit that they are narcissists, much less learn about what a narcissist is and does, but have you told him that he acts like one and those behaviors are at the root of every reason you are leaving? If he is not a narcissist, he can change if he puts a lot of work into it. Then he won't ruin his next marriage as well.


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## Openminded

Many of us ignore those red flags before marriage. I certainly did. We were very young and I thought things would be better once we were married. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Things continued to go downhill but I kept trying decade after decade. Hoping for that day when everything would finally work. But it never did. So now I'm a cautionary tale about staying too long in a marriage that just isn't meant to be. 

Ending a marriage isn't easy but it's good you have a plan. I made lots of lists when I was getting ready for my divorce and every time I crossed something off one of my lists I felt I was one step closer to a new life. And it was worth everything I went through to get there.


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## sadandlonely5

Another update; after spending many months on end looking for a job for days, nights and weekends on end, things finally started to pick up, and I have had several good interviews, but no notice either way if I got the job or not (for such a tight labor market and all of the noise you hear in the news, myself and friends who have lost jobs and have been looking have had a great struggle finding jobs.) I have a masters and am very capable and intelligent, and I have applied to well over 70 jobs, and have finally had interviews or heard back from a human from three positions thus far. At least there is progress, and hopefully I should have good news from one of them within the next few weeks. I wish that I had better news already, but at least there are still three possibilities, and I’m trying to stay positive and keep the momentum going. 

I have been seeing my own therapist since July, and she encouraged me to go to couples therapy not to save the marriage, but to work on coparenting, and to hopefully help him see his part in the marriage and why it wasn’t working, so that he doesn’t just blame me or turn the kids against me, saying that mommy broke up the family because I gave up. The only problem was getting him to go to couples therapy if I had already given up, so I told him this was a last-ditch attempt to work on it, and that if we don’t work on our foundation, or a friendship, we couldn’t possibly work on the marriage. 

After stalling for a few months hoping to at least have a job already (I had several interviews with a large Corp 6 1/2 weeks ago, and they were in a rush to move forward and had several positions open, and yet still no word either way except that they haven’t made a decision 2 weeks ago), I finally couldn’t stall anymore and had to rip the bandaid off. He had been working really hard to be more present and calm, and not yell and get annoyed so much, which I told him he had to do for him and the kids and NOT for me, and I gave him positive feedback on the changes without leading on or giving hope in any way, but just as a friend, while still emphasizing that he needs to be better whether we work out or not, but not much else changed, and his big last-ditch effort to save the marriage did not result in him listening to me or being able to show affection and appreciate me. I didn’t open up to him much, to be honest, because that line had been crossed so long ago and I just feel nothing anymore. I know that is unfair since he still had a glimmer of hope that things could work out, but I really wanted to have my own job before I made that leap, just in case (with this crazy fear of what if he takes all the money out of anger, etc.)

He also didn’t stop getting annoyed and taking his emotions and anxiety out on me, it just became less extreme, and that was with everything else in life being relatively stress-free, and him making a very concerted effort. He yelled at me again this weekend at a bowling alley with the kids, and the kids were yelling at him to stop yelling at mommy. He got nasty about taxes and begrudgingly admitted he was wrong without sincerely being sorry for angrily yelling at me, and he blamed me and our problems for his shingles he is apparently suffering with in a very passive-aggressive, backhanded comment. If this is the best effort he can put in, when he knew things weren’t going well, it just confirmed that it would take a very long time to change habits and behaviors, if ever, and that the very temporary improvements were just that. 

We went to couples therapy Tuesday evening, and he started the session by mentioning that he realized that because of the way he grew up (with an extreme helicopter parent) he needed me to be in control and nurturing, but he also resents me for it, because he resents his mother and how she treated him. I’m stuck in some bad IMAGO re-enactment, and he may always see me like his mother and resent me, even though I only took on this role through our relationship dynamic as it evolved, and because of his inability to take the lead in anything, while also needing me to stroke his ego and make him feel like he did it all, which I did NOT do, and maybe why he also resents me. I don’t know, but he really needs personal therapy, and has a lot of issues he needs to work on. 

Then I finally told him the bad news, and it went even worse than I was anticipating. I started crying when he said that I never tried, told me that I gave up, and when he started crying that he won’t be able to tuck his kids into bed every night anymore. I explained that I feel absolutely awful about everything, that I never meant to hurt anyone and that I want us to be able to be friend, to coparent really well together and to have things work out in the best possible scenario. He told me he is so sad because he is still here trying, he never beat me or cheated, and he doesn’t want to give up. I couldn’t bear to tell him that I don’t love him anymore, and that I’ve tried for so long to get it back, but I can’t. It was truly heartbreaking. I have felt awful every day. His entire world has been shattered, his image of what his life was supposed to look like (at least superficially) is shattered, and he doesn’t have great coping skills or ability to deal with stress. Emotionally he is acting like he was completely blindsided, like he caught me cheating with his best friend, when this has been unraveling for years, I have told him I have been very unhappy for years, and we have been barely speaking other than conversationally about the kids for many months now. 

Since the session, he is barely speaking to me, and he is having huge dramatic meltdowns in front of the kids every day. They are running to him, hugging him and asking him why he is crying. Tonight the youngest asked him why he cries every day. I went to my therapist this morning, and she told me it’s absolutely not healthy that he keeps completely losing it and sobbing profusely in front of the kids, and that they are too young (3 and 5), don’t know what is going on, and that it’s not their job to comfort him. It makes me feel sad and guilty, like a horrible person, but now it’s also making me annoyed because if I won’t coddle him and nurture him like his mother, he has the girls fawning all over him, hugging him, reassuring him, being all worried about him, and I’m worried he will say something and blame me, and the girls will blame me. This relationship and it’s inability to work is not only my fault; we both played a role. 

I am hoping things get better with time, but now I’m also worried he’s going to be very emotionally immature and vindictive. He has never been able to manage his emotions and always took them out on others, never accepted blame for anything or had true regret or empathy, so I guess I shouldn’t expect that to start now. No matter how many times I cry and say I’m sorry, he doesn’t seem to believe me. He made a comment tonight when I apologized behind my back, saying “yeah, sure”. I don’t know if he will ever believe that I tried for years to avoid this, that I am truly very sad and willing to accept responsibility for my part in the relationship, or that the last thing I wanted to do was hurt anyone. Again, I’m left having to be the bad guy, so the heavy lifting of officially giving up (since he refused for it to be mutual), and I have to put on my big girl pants and do everything for the household and the kids and myself, while he cries and hates me. How did I become the bad guy in all of this?

It makes me so sad because I really don’t want that for the girls, or for him or I. I don’t know how things will go from here, but hopefully the couples therapist can guide us through and he can get to a place where we can get along and he can forgive me. I want him to be happy, even though it’s not with me, and I wish that I had someone to set him up with (after he has dealt with all of this and hopefully healed) so that he won’t be alone. I am really hoping and praying for the best, but at this point I also have to prepare for the worst. 

And advice is greatly appreciated ❤


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## Diana7

Tell him that the next time he puts on that show of crying and 'meltdown' in front of the children, you will take them and you may not come back. Then you must do it. Even if you just take them to a family member for the day or for the night it will show him that this cant carry on. Its appalling that he is using them in this way. They will be badly affected by it. I bet he would not do that if he had no audience.


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## 3Xnocharm

Agreed. Make sure the therapist tells him that the meltdowns have to stop. He is supposed to be the adult here, the parent, the kids are not supposed to be in that role. What a horrible display of immaturity in front of your children. Kids depend on parents to be strong and to guide them, and his behavior is going to make them very insecure. The therapist should also stress to him that he is NOT to blame you to the kids, especially when he is upset like that. He seriously needs to be in IC, it sounds like his mama issues are pretty serious. 

You are showing a lot of strength and courage in the face of all this crap.


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## BigDigg

These things are incredibly hard under even the best circumstances...there is no cheat code to bypass. Keep in mind that he's a human too (flawed as he may be) and has a right to grieve in his own way. But also always remember that you don't need to be dragged into this. His emotional labor is entirely optional - be watchful on being dragged into these things...it benefits no one long-term. You control and own your own emotions and outlook now and knowing that is a powerful thing. His short-term and long-term happiness and healing is not your responsibility. Right now your responsibility is to get through this as quickly and painlessly as possible to minimize damage to you and your kids. So define your plan and execute it in the fairest way possible and maintain your frame and dignity throughout...

Hopefully this experience will be a trigger for his own personal growth and he'll be better for it. A major life kick in the pants seems to really be what he needs. 

Praying for you.


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## wilson

sadandlonely5 said:


> . He has never been able to manage his emotions and always took them out on others, never accepted blame for anything or had true regret or empathy, so I guess I shouldn’t expect that to start now. No matter how many times I cry and say I’m sorry, he doesn’t seem to believe me. He made a comment tonight when I apologized behind my back, saying “yeah, sure”. I don’t know if he will ever believe that I tried for years to avoid this, that I am truly very sad and willing to accept responsibility for my part in the relationship, or that the last thing I wanted to do was hurt anyone. Again, I’m left having to be the bad guy, so the heavy lifting of officially giving up (since he refused for it to be mutual), and I have to put on my big girl pants and do everything for the household and the kids and myself, while he cries and hates me. How did I become the bad guy in all of this?


Don't try convincing him anymore. Don't apologize anymore. If he doesn't understand why you're not happy, oh well, that's his problem. You have expressed your reasons clearly, and furthermore, you shouldn't have had to. Some things should be self-evident. If he thinks the relationship you had was peachy-kean and was perfectly fine, then he doesn't understand what a healthy relationship is like. You have gone above and beyond trying to educate him, and he has consciously rejected trying to improve things. It sounds like you feel a lot (100%?) of the responsibility for making him feel better. You don't. He's the one who has unhealthy relationship behaviors. He should be the one taking the initiative and figuring out how to be an appropriate husband and life partner. 

The fact that he's having emotional breakdowns like this shows how far he is outside the bounds of being healthy. He has a whole lot of personal development to do before he should be in a relationship. He's not going to get better as long as the motivation is coming externally from you, his mom, or someone else. At some point he has to realize he needs to make himself better. Other people will help him along his journey, but he has to be the one trying to make it happen. 

It will probably be after years of being single that he will finally get a clue as to what happened with you. Don't kill yourself trying to get him to understand, because he's incapable. It's like trying to explain algebra to your dog.

I can't see how it's healthy for anyone if you guys are in the same house. Do you have plans to separate?


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## 3Xnocharm

wilson said:


> Don't try convincing him anymore. Don't apologize anymore. If he doesn't understand why you're not happy, oh well, that's his problem. You have expressed your reasons clearly, and furthermore, you shouldn't have had to. Some things should be self-evident. If he thinks the relationship you had was peachy-kean and was perfectly fine, then he doesn't understand what a healthy relationship is like. You have gone above and beyond trying to educate him, and he has consciously rejected trying to improve things. It sounds like you feel a lot (100%?) of the responsibility for making him feel better. You don't. He's the one who has unhealthy relationship behaviors. He should be the one taking the initiative and figuring out how to be an appropriate husband and life partner.


Agreed. Stop apologizing. It only seems to be enabling the behavior. It probably time to start the 180 to help you detach and start putting some distance between you. If you arent familiar, I'm sure someone here has the link to the 180.


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## sokillme

sadandlonely5 said:


> And advice is greatly appreciated ❤


I personally don't think it's great that he is crying in front of the kids but I certainly don't think it should be treated like abuse. Everyone grieves differently. 

Unfortunately it is what it is. There was never going to be a way for this to happen without him being sad and mourning the loss of his marriage. Lots of things in life are sad, we all deal with it different. But most people have to eventually get over it. He will too and hopefully he does. It may be that he finds some women who loves taking care of him the way you don't. 

Honestly the way you describe him he sounds like a kind of ordinary guy. And your life is kind of standard somewhat boring life, that you are not willing to settle for. Which is fine, but I don't think it's such a stretch that there will be women out there who would be fine to have that life. So just because he is sad now doesn't mean he will be forever. I think the biggest thing that could be said is that YOU don't love him, he also deserves someone who does. I think the next time this comes to a head you should tell him that specifically, that you don't love him anymore, ask him does he really want to be with a wife who doesn't love him? Thinking of that he is probably going to be better off too. This is life. 

You didn't cheat, you did the honorable thing and told him. This will get easier once you no longer live together. Just keep taking the high road, ignore him if he lashes out. Remember this is a very hard thing and it was always going to be for you too, in different ways. This isn't going to last forever for you either. 

I do think it's more kind to stop your role as his support person now. It's time for him to get used to you not being there. You can use this time to do that without it being so harsh. It's going to happen anyway. So in that vain I would start to emotionally distance myself. 

Again this is life.


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## SongoftheSouth

The response by sokillme seems really spot on. Unlike many situations there is no good guy/bad/guy here (infedelity/abuse etc...) You dont love him and he is sad about the end of the marriage which is understandable. It is what it is, going to be painful but that is part of life


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## sadandlonely5

We finally talked last night since the big talk at therapy, and he cried and begged me not to go, not to give up on him. He said that he’s made some changes the past few months and that he realized now that he has some issues he needs to work on, issues from his childhood, standing up to family, standing up for himself at work, etc. 

He apologized and admitted he made a lot of mistakes in the past, (literally for the past 12 years) that he didn’t always treat me well and that he was very selfish and unwilling to compromise, but that now he is changing, and he really loves me so much. I don’t genuinely feel like he loves me, and I told him I think we are codependent, that our relationship is not happy or healthy, and that we have grown apart. I told him he did a lot of damage over the years, and I can’t just turn my feelings on again because suddenly he’s ready to change and wants things to be different, like a light switch. 

I gave him examples of how in the past few months I have asked for space, and he has become much more needy, hovering, and passive-aggressively controlling. I also have examples of how I say things to him, but he doesn’t hear me, and will literally contradict what I just said or conclude something different than what I said and examples I gave, and that he does things he thinks I should want, or keeps doing things he thinks should make things better despite what I am asking and telling him. 

He said that he is willing to go to therapy solo if that is what it will take to save the relationship, but I told him he needs to go and should want to go regardless, especially considering he is finally admitting self-awareness of issues he has and how he has treated others in the past. The only wanting to go if it’s absolutely necessary to save the relationship is a red flag. He told me his cousin he was close to growing up told him he was conceited to his face in middle school, and I confirmed that he sometimes still is because his moods, needs and his image or what he think things should look like are more important than what anyone else wants or needs. 

We left off saying we would talk more another night, and he kept saying he loves me, but I didn’t respond. The begging and pleading to give him another chance feels like he is trying to make me feel bad or guilty, and then I keep thinking what if he really is willing to change? But then again, I think he is dependent and needy, and he knows he has a good setup with a wife that does everything, a a superficially-looking perfect life, etc., and why would he want to give that up?


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## wilson

Because you have 2 young kids, I think it's worth trying for a little longer. I have doubts about how much change he can really make, but he does seem to finally understand the issue. Yes, he should have understood before, but sometimes people need to be shocked into reality. Now that he's here and truly wants to change, consider seeing this through a little longer. You don't have to hang on forever waiting for him, however. Things will take a while to get better. You should see slow and steady progress. But if he falls back into old habits after all this, then you'll have your answer about what to do. Hopefully it works out, but if it doesn't at least you'll be able to tell your kids you tried everything.


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## oldshirt

look at it this way, I am assuming that neither or you are a druggie or a convicted pedophile or child abuser so it is safe assumption that you will have shared custody of the kids. That means you are going to have to coparent anyway and will still be somewhat involved in each other's lives to one degree or another even if it is strictly as related to the kids. 

In other words even if you divorce, you will each kinda know how the other is doing and what they are up to, how they are living their lives and what kind of person they are. 

If after a number of years he gets himself straightened out and somehow transforms into the kind of person you would like in a spouse and parent under the same roof, you could begin dating again and even remarry if it came to that. 

This is if you don't happen to meet and marry someone else who is already squared away and the right person for you before he gets his act together. 

But my point here, you are at "show-me-the-money" point here and he has to actually BE the person you need him to be to have a happy and healthy marriage. He has to actually be that person and not just say he will magically change into that person. 

In other words if like if you want to marry a doctor. Don't marry a freshman undergrad taking a biology class that says he's going to be a doctor. Marry a med school graduate who has the MD license in his hand. 

Same thing here. You can remarry him (assuming neither of you marry someone else in the mean time) after he has done all the work and has actually become what you want and need in a spouse. 

If you want an automobile, buy a working automobile. don't buy a rubber tree and a pile of iron ore on the promise that it will become an automobile.


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## SongoftheSouth

Over a year ago you wrote:



sadandlonely5 said:


> Hi everyone. I’m so unhappy, and I don’t want to just give up on marriage or hurt my kids, *but I also don’t love him or want to work on the marriage.* I want him to be a different person, and that’s not fair. I know that’s my fault, but what do I do now? I’m working on me and trying to be as happy as I can with my life (which I am) except for my marriage and husband. /QUOTE]
> 
> You did not love your husband and did not want to work on your marraige then and a year later its the same. He is sad but do him a favor and divorce him. Dragging this on is useless. He will be sad but eventually recover and you can move on to the greener pastures in your future.


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