# Understanding Toddlers



## NextTimeAround

Today I endured an hour long bus ride with a wailing toddler. (I'm in London at the moment.)

The toddler was in a pram while two people, (man and woman) who appeared to be her parents were sitting down but not calming her for a long time. I heard some women finally tell the parents that it was rude to them to expect others to endure all this noise. I looked back a few times myself. I think they saw me. they finally gave her a bottle of something. She got mostly quiet.

Now, is this something that should be reported? Should we expect more from parents who take their kids in public?

Or is this just a reminder that there isn't much that you can do with a child?


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## NobodySpecial

NextTimeAround said:


> Today I endured an hour long bus ride with a wailing toddler. (I'm in London at the moment.)
> 
> The toddler was in a pram while two people, (man and woman) who appeared to be her parents were sitting down but not calming her for a long time. I heard some women finally tell the parents that it was ride to them to expect others to endure all this noise. I looked back a few times myself. I think they saw me. they finally gave a bottle of something. She got mostly quiet.
> 
> Now, is this something that should be reported? Should we expect more from parents who take their kids in public?
> 
> Or is this just a reminder that there isn't much that you can do with a child?


Reported to whom? There is a lot one CAN do with a child often. But you don't get to know whether or not the parents are doing what can be done. In any event, a pita child is a... pita. But report it? Why? What would be the desired outcome?


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## personofinterest

Toddlers cry. And sometimes toddlers cry because they're pitching a temper tantrum. The best way to deal with a temper tantrum in public is to ignore it. That may have been what the parents were trying to do. Reporting this is a silly notion. Yes it's annoying to hear a child cry. It happens. Ignore it.


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## NextTimeAround

Also just worried that we are supposed to report incidences of child mistreatment. Not being a parent, I'm not always sure what it looks like.


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## bobert

Sometimes kids are just crabby, and yeah some parents ignore their kids (my neighbor does). 

Yesterday I was at the store and my youngest was losing his ****. He didn't want to be there, if he was there he wanted to walk and he can't walk as long or as quickly as needed (in a rush), he was grabbing things off the shelves, screaming, crying, kicking. None of the regular techniques were working (I spy, helping find things we need, asking what he wants to buy, etc.). We had to shop, so I got it over as quickly as I could with him screaming through the store. Probably looked like I was ignoring him for the second half of the trip. 

You cannot report a stranger for seeing them maybe ignoring their child. (Well, you can, but nothing will be done about it). If the child is all over the road or something while the parent is smoking crack, then maybe.


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## personofinterest

NextTimeAround said:


> Also just worried that we are supposed to report incidences of child mistreatment. Not being a parent, I'm not always sure what it looks like.


 This is definitely and absolutely not child mistreatment.


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## uhtred

Children are not deterministic systems. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do to get the behavior you (or your neighbors) want.


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## Cynthia

NextTimeAround said:


> Also just worried that we are supposed to report incidences of child mistreatment. Not being a parent, I'm not always sure what it looks like.


I'm glad you asked this question. When you see a child who is obviously upset, you want to make sure they're okay. Small children have no control over their emotions. Tiny things will set them off and it can look like they are being horribly mistreated. They think they are being horribly mistreated, because they are not getting what they want. But part of growing up is learning you can't have everything you want, even if you throw a royal fit.

Children will often throw a fit in public, because they have figured out that there isn't much their parent can do about it in a public place, for various reasons. Like how can you put a toddler in time out when she's on the tram? You can't.

Don't worry about it. Sometimes things like this happen and you simply have to endure it and have sympathy for the parents. 

I have three children. I remember the first day since having children that no one cried. It was the end of an era.


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## Woolyjumpers

You can't always control your child's behaviour and sometimes toddlers will just scream no matter what you do. 

I do get frustrated however with people who aren't even trying to comfort their child. An hour is a long time for a child to sit on a bus with nothing to do, no wonder the child was crying.


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## john117

personofinterest said:


> Toddlers cry. And sometimes toddlers cry because they're pitching a temper tantrum. The best way to deal with a temper tantrum in public is to ignore it. That may have been what the parents were trying to do. Reporting this is a silly notion. Yes it's annoying to hear a child cry. It happens. Ignore it.


Depends on the definition of toddler. In the USA it's maybe 18 to 36 months, and not the kind you'll see in a pram (stroller?)

A 12 month old can be comforted easily, rocked, etc unless ill. A toddler can be distracted or talked to, usually with good results.

I've traveled overseas with young children and never had to end up like that. Sub optimal parenting I'm afraid...

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## NobodySpecial

john117 said:


> Depends on the definition of toddler. In the USA it's maybe 18 to 36 months, and not the kind you'll see in a pram (stroller?)
> 
> A 12 month old can be comforted easily, rocked, etc unless ill. A toddler can be distracted or talked to, usually with good results.
> 
> I've traveled overseas with young children and never had to end up like that. Sub optimal parenting I'm afraid...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Hardly of the reportable variety however.


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## personofinterest

john117 said:


> Depends on the definition of toddler. In the USA it's maybe 18 to 36 months, and not the kind you'll see in a pram (stroller?)
> 
> A 12 month old can be comforted easily, rocked, etc unless ill. A toddler can be distracted or talked to, usually with good results.
> 
> I've traveled overseas with young children and never had to end up like that. Sub optimal parenting I'm afraid...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


LOL of course....


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## Cynthia

john117 said:


> I've traveled overseas with young children and never had to end up like that. Sub optimal parenting I'm afraid...


 I just have to respond to this comment. I thought the same thing until I had a child with a different personality and found out that it wasn't my fabulous parenting skills, but the nature of my children. While I do agree this is often true, sometimes it just isn't. My wild child seems to have purged the system and is now calm and moving in an excellent direction as a young adult, but as a toddler, he was a handful to say the least.


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## personofinterest

CynthiaDe said:


> I just have to respond to this comment. I thought the same thing until I had a child with a different personality and found out that it wasn't my fabulous parenting skills, but the nature of my children. While I do agree this is often true, sometimes it just isn't. My wild child seems to have purged the system and is now calm and moving in an excellent direction as a young adult, but as a toddler, he was a handful to say the least.


Exactly. 

And if you happen to have children who are not neurotypical, multiply it.

The simplistic arrogance of some people astounds me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

uhtred said:


> Children are not deterministic systems. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do to get the behavior you (or your neighbors) want.


Duct tape. 

As a parent, I can say that. 😎😎😊😊😊

We had the grandbaby over the weekend and although he was 90% good, you never know when the 10% will pop out.


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## uhtred

It leaves marks after a while. You want something that cleans up better.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Duct tape.
> 
> As a parent, I can say that. 😎😎😊😊😊
> 
> We had the grandbaby over the weekend and although he was 90% good, you never know when the 10% will pop out.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ha!

There is that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Frog tape maybe, come to think of it.


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## Diana7

NextTimeAround said:


> Also just worried that we are supposed to report incidences of child mistreatment. Not being a parent, I'm not always sure what it looks like.


How was that in ANY way mistreatment? Small children cry and get upset. Its crystal clear that you have no idea about children.
If they had been beating their child with a belt or giving him pot to smoke then yes.


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## Diana7

john117 said:


> Depends on the definition of toddler. In the USA it's maybe 18 to 36 months, and not the kind you'll see in a pram (stroller?)
> 
> A 12 month old can be comforted easily, rocked, etc unless ill. A toddler can be distracted or talked to, usually with good results.
> 
> I've traveled overseas with young children and never had to end up like that. Sub optimal parenting I'm afraid...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


A stroller is a pushchair. Children of toddler age, which I take to be 1-2, would definitely be in a pushchair.


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## john117

CynthiaDe said:


> I just have to respond to this comment. I thought the same thing until I had a child with a different personality and found out that it wasn't my fabulous parenting skills, but the nature of my children. While I do agree this is often true, sometimes it just isn't. My wild child seems to have purged the system and is now calm and moving in an excellent direction as a young adult, but as a toddler, he was a handful to say the least.


Ah, my older one WAS the . Still is. It has taken my exceptionally good parenting skills  to deal with her for 26 years. The younger is an angel and has been since day one.

Still, neither kid would dream of screaming in a 9 jour flight, restaurant, etc even as toddlers. 



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## john117

personofinterest said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> And if you happen to have children who are not neurotypical, multiply it.
> 
> 
> 
> The simplistic arrogance of some people astounds me.


Let's see your kid sleeping thru the night at 5 years old... Our older one was pretty much every example from the "Raising your Spirited Child" books.

Further, let's see a totally screwed up family dynamic thanks to mom thinking that her daughter will end up a prostitute because she was a popular, social butterfly girl. 

Not everyone has Brady bunch kids. There's lots about her and about her relationship with her mom I haven't discussed. She's a great kid but unfortunately she won the mental health genes from Mom...

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## john117

Diana7 said:


> A stroller is a pushchair. Children of toddler age, which I take to be 1-2, would definitely be in a pushchair.


Correct. I remember a pram mentioned, so I assume a younger kid, not s toddler. Maybe I misremembered 

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## NextTimeAround

I guess I don't know much about child development. She looked about 3 or 4. I thought that was toddler age.


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## Cynthia

NextTimeAround said:


> I guess I don't know much about child development. She looked about 3 or 4. I thought that was toddler age.


Toddler refers to the time when a baby is learning to walk and is still not particularly steady of foot. They toddle back and forth and fall down.


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## john117

CynthiaDe said:


> Toddler refers to the time when a baby is learning to walk and is still not particularly steady of foot. They toddle back and forth and fall down.


Usually 1 to 3 years is toddler, then preschool age... 



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## AandM

john117 said:


> Let's see your kid sleeping thru the night at 5 years old


That's why the book, _Go The **** To Sleep_ should be given out in the maternity wards. I don't know which audio version is better, the one by Samuel L. Jackson, or Jennifer Garner.

Also, the wordy-durd filter here _also_ filters out naughty words that are part of hyperlinks.


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## Bluesclues

john117 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> And if you happen to have children who are not neurotypical, multiply it.
> 
> 
> 
> The simplistic arrogance of some people astounds me.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see your kid sleeping thru the night at 5 years old... Our older one was pretty much every example from the "Raising your Spirited Child" books.
> 
> Further, let's see a totally screwed up family dynamic thanks to mom thinking that her daughter will end up a prostitute because she was a popular, social butterfly girl.
> 
> Not everyone has Brady bunch kids. There's lots about her and about her relationship with her mom I haven't discussed. She's a great kid but unfortunately she won the mental health genes from Mom...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Are you drinking? Insulting to every ASD parent on this board.


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## john117

AandM said:


> That's why the book, _Go The **** To Sleep_ should be given out in the maternity wards. I don't know which audio version is better, the one by Samuel L. Jackson, or Jennifer Garner.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the wordy-durd filter here _also_ filters out naughty words that are part of hyperlinks.


Maybe.

When she was born she had bright eyes, looked around, observed the hubbub of the maternity ward... Barely slept.

Stopped napping maybe at 2, earlier even. Perfect talking by 2.5.

Content to sleep 5 hours a day for months. Like me.

But got used to sleeping with us while a couple years later her sister slept the night at 4 weeks and never caused trouble. 

Thankfully we had a big home and plenty of beds so . 



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## kag123

My rule of thumb is to never assume anything about a parent or their kids. Kids cry and throw a fit for any multitude of reasons, not always in the most convenient places. If a kid is wailing uncontrollably in a place they clearly should not be... a movie theater, a bar, the opera... yea, the parents are awful and we can probably safely say they shouldn't have brought them there.

Anywhere else? I'll go ahead and come from a place of help, not judgement. A smile, a nod, a "what can I do to help?", interacting with the kid sometimes helps to distract them... or at the very least, politely ignoring the noise. I have been the parent stuck with the inconsolable kid in a public place, I remember the panic and sweating and the dirty looks from those around me. I vowed to never be the one shooting those dirty looks once I was on the receiving end of them. Kids still need to exist in public spaces, and sometimes lessons need to be taught and learned in public spaces. 

Luckily as a parent, my hearing has been dulled down to nothing at this point... a meteor could strike the earth in front of me and I'd probably barely register it. Years of enduring kids crying and yelling will do that to you. 

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## AandM

NextTimeAround said:


> I guess I don't know much about child development. She looked about 3 or 4. I thought that was toddler age.


Nah. Toddler is from, walking to ending with developing the ability to _*not ****ing pull down every ****ing thing in creation*_.

This will sound weird to anyone who has never had children, but the most important thing you must know about toddlers is that the fastest thing in the universe is a toddler with something in his mouth that shouldn't be there.


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## john117

Bluesclues said:


> Are you drinking? Insulting to every ASD parent on this board.


I know a thing or three about psychology,. I do not speak lightly of this, and I'm only speaking of my own experiences. I've seen how my s-wife inherited a lot from her mom, and how my daughter carried on many of the same traits.

It's also very likely my s-wife has some level of ASD, but that's water under the bridge at T - 2 days. 

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## Bluesclues

john117 said:


> Bluesclues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you drinking? Insulting to every ASD parent on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> I know a thing or three about psychology,. I do not speak lightly of this, and I'm only speaking of my own experiences. I've seen how my s-wife inherited a lot from her mom, and how my daughter carried on many of the same traits.
> 
> It's also very likely my s-wife has some level of ASD, but that's water under the bridge at T - 2 days.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You missed the point entirely.


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## personofinterest

john117 said:


> Bluesclues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you drinking? Insulting to every ASD parent on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> I know a thing or three about psychology,. I do not speak lightly of this, and I'm only speaking of my own experiences. I've seen how my s-wife inherited a lot from her mom, and how my daughter carried on many of the same traits.
> 
> It's also very likely my s-wife has some level of ASD, but that's water under the bridge at T - 2 days.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Um....you DO realize ASD is not a mental illness.....right?


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## john117

personofinterest said:


> Um....you DO realize ASD is not a mental illness.....right?


I'm talking overall mental *state*, and was not the one who brought up a specific condition.



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## NextTimeAround

What does ASD mean?


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## personofinterest

john117 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um....you DO realize ASD is not a mental illness.....right?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking overall mental *state*, and was not the one who brought up a specific condition.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Or you could, you know, apologize for being insulting.


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## Andy1001

NextTimeAround said:


> What does ASD mean?


Autistic Spectrum Disorder.


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## msrv23

My child recently has some unconsolable tantrums in the public occasionally. Before, it was easy to calm down, just a hug or me would be fine. Now my child might cry over something small, and the more I try to comfort, the more the cry.

In a public transport it’s hard because we can’t walk away. We can’t even walk or put my child down for not wanting to be held. It’s like holding a fish or slime, or a rock, depending on the mood.

In some days I just feel so tired. At home I’d let my child cool down for a minute or two which helps, after the pike of emotions. Sometimes, attempting to calm down might set off even more emotions. It’s kind of like us adults feeling stressed and someone trying to calm us down instead of letting us cool off. If we are not feeling too strongly it might help, but if we are too stressed we might feel worse.

So if I pause a bit while holding my crying child, maybe some people might think that I’m neglecting my child. But it’s just me trying to calm myself down too, after a badly slept night and tiredness, before continue with my hopeless attempt to do something in the middle of a public transport.

Before being a parent I really never bothered about what other parents were doing, unless maybe physical punishment or yelling, scolding harshly. Children are children, it’s not that I’d expect them to behave perfectly. Somehow, after being a parent, it feels like the entire world is judging everything you do. I shouldn’t read the internet as it made me paranoid about being judged.

Children are also not all the same. They do have personalities outside the parents control.


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## personofinterest

msrv23 said:


> my child recently has some unconsolable tantrums in the public occasionally. Before, it was easy to calm down, just a hug or me would be fine. Now my child might cry over something small, and the more i try to comfort, the more the cry.
> 
> In a public transport it’s hard because we can’t walk away. We can’t even walk or put my child down for not wanting to be held. It’s like holding a fish or slime, or a rock, depending on the mood.
> 
> In some days i just feel so tired. At home i’d let my child cool down for a minute or two which helps, after the pike of emotions. Sometimes, attempting to calm down might set off even more emotions. It’s kind of like us adults feeling stressed and someone trying to calm us down instead of letting us cool off. If we are not feeling too strongly it might help, but if we are too stressed we might feel worse.
> 
> So if i pause a bit while holding my crying child, maybe some people might think that i’m neglecting my child. But it’s just me trying to calm myself down too, after a badly slept night and tiredness, before continue with my hopeless attempt to do something in the middle of a public transport.
> 
> Before being a parent i really never bothered about what other parents were doing, unless maybe physical punishment or yelling, scolding harshly. Children are children, it’s not that i’d expect them to behave perfectly. Somehow, after being a parent, it feels like the entire world is judging everything you do. I shouldn’t read the internet as it made me paranoid about being judged.
> 
> Children are also not all the same. They do have personalities outside the parents control.


truth


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## TheDudeLebowski

NextTimeAround said:


> I heard some women finally tell the parents that it was rude to them to expect others to endure all this noise.


If someone did this to me, I would just look them in the eyes, give them a big smile, and in a kind and polite tone I would tell them to "MIND YOUR OWN ****ING BUSINESS!"


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## Cat Lady

As a mom of 3 and grandma to 2, the thing you have to realize about kids is that, up until about the age of 5, they are certifiably insane. Once you realize that, your life as a parent is MUCH easier. Non-parental onlookers may not like it, but c’est la vie.


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## hptessla

There are also methods of child rearing that incorporate letting the child self soothe, or cry it out. I am a father and stay at home with our kids. I tended to let them cry it out. I have noticed that it is more common for fathers to do that than mothers. I find fathers tend to yell more than mothers too. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and with one child it might while with another it might not. I only realized this after having kids of my own, never noticed it with nieces/nephews/friend's kids. The question I would have for you is what would have been acceptable? What if picking the child up only increased it's vigor?

Personally, an hour would be too long for me to let my kids cry as toddlers. 2 minutes would be too long for my wife. Part of that is mother/father differences and part of it is also how you are raised. My biggest surprise as a parent remains the range of personalities from the same genetic mix. 

It's good that you ask though.


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## Cynthia

@msrv23, It sounds like you are doing just fine with your child. Other people may not understand, but focus only on your child, not on the people around you. You aren't doing anything abusive, so you have nothing to worry about. They are strangers. 

I cannot imagine taking a toddler on public transit. I've never had to do it, but your description makes my heart go out to you.


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