# Even if you don't do anything wrong....



## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

....it still seems to happen.

Does this stuff depress anyone as much as it depresses me?


I didn't do it! Thanks to you guys

I cheated and my husband left!!

In both situations, the women admit that their marriages were perfect, that nothing was wrong, that their husbands met all their needs and were not negligent in any capacity whatsoever.

And yet, they "inexplicably" went ahead and put themselves in situations for something to happen regardless. The second they had a chance. 

It's like just another nail in the coffin for my ability to love or respect women at all. You can give everything of yourself, be perfect, yet they will still just crave "strange" sex or forever feel, under the surface, that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Or worse still, that some Pick Up Artist could just take them from you with only an hour of BS conversational tricks.

I dunno, it is seriously wearing me down. I need to read some positive success stories, tales of women who actually truly love their husbands, and don't think they are making some massive sacrifice of their lives and freedom just to be with him (as though he isn't sacrificing his own life and freedom to be with her) and whose lives are happy and completed by being one with him.

It's either that, or completely switch off to women forever, and I am struggling to not do that, because I am not sure if I can ever flip the switch back on again once I do that.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

You will get that behaviour with certain people forever. It is not a woman thing. There are plenty of women who are on the other side of betrayal, the men who screwed them over. 

I think it is more a degradation of morals and boundaries in the climate we live in that cause these situations so easily and readily. People have to, nowadays, have very solid morals and boundaries in order to avoid committing adultery and to know when they are in danger of it. To remove themselves from potential situations that arise. I believe that that is quite a rare thing for both men and women. 

Cheating has become normalised in our society. And people are not cast out for doing these things. Not on average anyway. Though if people know that a person has committed adultery, they can very often be shunned by friends and aquaintences. It is not completely accepted. 

I am not a cheater or adulterer. I have had many opportunities to do so, from people I would definitely go out with if I and they were single, from men I have had big crushes on. But I have kept boundaries in place and put a stop to any advances made as soon as they were made. I am a woman. And I have morals. 

I have read many threads on here from women who were on the betrayed side of adultery. That they were solid in thrive marriage, commitment, and never took opportunities to cheat. But then their husbands did not give that same commitment back. 

How you can cast aspersions on all women due to your own experience and due to those examples given above is beyond me. Surely you are intelligent enough to know it is a particular kind of 'person' issue rather than an issue of half of the whole human race.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

P.S. I do not crave 'strange/stranger' sex. I find it cheap. I find it distasteful. And I don't respect those who want stranger sex. I find them cheap. Distasteful. 

Am I one woman alone in the human race? I don't think so.

And what about all my bad experiences with men? Does that mean I should hate all men? Give up on half the human race? Give up on ever finding someone decent? No! All my bad experiences are an education for me. An education on people. And they show me how to make better choices, how to spot the crap instead of being upset and confused by it. I know a great deal more about fu*ked up men than I did before. And I intend to use that knowledge to protect myself from bastards. To avoid bastards. 

If I get s*at on again, so be it. We cannot stop disaster from happening to us. But we can do our best to avoid it. And do our best to spot it arriving on our doorstep and turning it away before we let it in.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

It has nothing to do with 'men' or 'women'. I didn't look at another man whilst I was married and wouldn't have despite any problems. That's because I'm loyal and faithful. My husband detached emotionally for at least the last two years of our marriage and I still didn't cheat. Shame that he didn't feel the same huh? It hasn't made me bitter towards all men though, why would it? That was just him, there's millions more out there to try 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Confirmation bias. You are looking at a section of a marriage forum particularly focused on infidelity.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm 28 and I still believe in true love. I have been with the father of my children for 7 years. I have never cheated on him and never put myself in a situation to cheat. I have boundaries and new rules for myself since joining this forum.

NO MALE FRIENDS ALLOWED! I no longer think men and women can be friends. In fact, I'm convinced they cannot. He's not allowed female friends either.

By the way generally statistically MOST women cheaters cheat after long unhappy marriages. Thats the general rule. These 2 women are an exception. Men cheat most of the time while in HAPPY marriages. These are just the stats.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Confirmation bias. You are looking at a section of a marriage forum particularly focused on infidelity.


I agree! 

But that bias also works the other way. Many stories of faithful women (and men) who were betrayed by their spouse. This forum is full of faithful spouses too. Because in most cases only one half of the couple cheated and not the other half! 

However, this forum is obviously ONLY stories of infidelity or near infidelity, due to the title of the forum. Hence, the pages are awash with it. This is not 'my marriage is great' forum. 

If you want success stories OP you need to go to the 'success stories in marriage' section. Or find another forum of a similar title e.g. I have never cheated and neither has my spouse. I would imagine that though would be hard to find. People usually resort to forums due to needing help or guidance.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Indeed - this isn't the place for sucess stories! (Unless you count reconcilliations ones - but that's not the same.)

However, bad things happen, even if you don't do anything wrong - which was the thrust of the OP message, I think. Just as, even if you're driving sensibly, you can get hit by a careless driver - not your fault, but you still get hurt.

That said, there are advanced driving courses which can help you to drive more defensively - more aware, more concious of having breaking distance, not just for you, but for teh car that is too close behind you.

I think there can be similar ideals in a marriage - not just that 'nothing is wrong' but recognising that there are behaviours which, whilst not wrong, in and of themselves, are likely to put you in a situation where you can start on a bad path, no matter how innocent it looks intially.

I've become more concious of friendships with OS, and how that look (even if it isn't) or what it theoretically become. So when talking to women, if the talk even remotely touches the personal, I mention my wife and children, so it could never get as far as flirting. (If they did start to flirt, I'm outta there!)
Similarly, I won't dance with women unless my wife is also there. (I had to make an exception at one point, as I was assisting a dance class, and my wife was ill one week - but we discussed it in advance.)
Extra safety, and total openness and honesty between spouses can make things safer (even if nother is ever totally safe.)

Rags


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Because the society in which we live is extremely conducive to the behavior you're citing. 

It's not because women are inherently worse then men. It's because stigma has been removed from unfaithfulness. It doesn't matter if someone *****s themselves out. Nobody cares, so everyone does it.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Confirmation bias. You are looking at a section of a marriage forum particularly focused on infidelity.


My thoughts exactly!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think the core problem is that society does punish cheaters. We turn a blind eye and say either feel pity for the betrayed spouse, or say they had it coming for dome reason, but we don't punish the cheaters.

For example, these folks thst cheat, even get caught, and just kep bring welcomed at church and the PTA.

Or when friends know they have a cheater in their midst, and just turn a blind eye, not even tellong the betrayed spouse. Even worse are friends who provide cover for the cheater.

Things would a lot different if we strongly cast out, ostracized the cheaters, enforced social consequences for their betrayal.

I for one will not be friends with a cheater, not at all. Why? Because if a cheater will betray their own spouse in the worst way, why would I expect them to treat me with any more respect or trust?

Cheaters lie, I expect they will lie to me ..
Cheaters betray, I expect they will betray me...
Cheaters are selfish, I expect they will act selfishly toward me..

Why would I want anyone like that as a friend?


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

Dude all was not perfect, regardless of what was posted in those threads. Blame may not shifted to actual martial issues but something is/was broken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I think the core problem is that society does punish cheaters. We turn a blind eye and say either feel pity for the betrayed spouse, or say they had it coming for dome reason, but we don't punish the cheaters.
> 
> For example, these folks thst cheat, even get caught, and just kep bring welcomed at church and the PTA.
> 
> ...


Even advice columns routinely tell people not to "affair bust" and tell their BS friends their spouse is cheating. Conspiracy of silence, and cheaters use it all to their fullest advantage.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Michie said:


> Dude all was not perfect, regardless of what was posted in those threads. Blame may not shifted to actual martial issues but something is/was broken.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In those threads, the majority of the time, the thing that was broken was the cheater. Borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder do not account for the majority of cheaters, but they are a significant plurality. They seem to show up most often in these cases, where one spouse was toodling along, thought everything was great, as did everyone else they knew, when bam, they were blindsided.

You can't live your life in fear of people who aren't mentally / emotionally whole. It's like refusing to leave your house because a serial killer might shoot you as you go for a run. It's like avoiding grocery stores because a mass murderer might bring his machine gun. You often can't tell how sane someone is by looking on the outside.

But: people who have co-dependent tendencies (a powerful desire to rescue and fix other people) do tend to attract the mentally unstable. Codependents need to learn (often the hard way) that you cannot rescue and fix anyone, you can only do that for yourself. So people who are "blindsided" by an affair who are otherwise good and giving people, go look in the mirror. There are steps you can take to avoid this in the future. The answer ISN'T never trusting anyone again, but it does require learning to draw firm boundaries over how much ill-treatment you will tolerate from others, and learning how to say "no" and offer professional treatment for the problems in others that have no easy fix.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You talk about women as if we are all the same.

Seriously. Knock that off. You are reading 2 stories on a website made for this stuff.

That's not ALL WOMEN. That is those women. Honestly.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

In the case of Tears, she had the Madonna / Wh0re complex going on. 

She couldn't let herself fulfill all of her fantasies with her husband because she wouldn't let herself do it. Once she had the ONS, she rightly figured out should could have just done all of that with her husband if she'd just let herself.

It's freaking common. Don't marry a woman who won't open up herself sexually to you.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> In the case of Tears, she had the Madonna / Wh0re complex going on.
> 
> She couldn't let herself fulfill all of her fantasies with her husband because she wouldn't let herself do it. Once she had the ONS, she rightly figured out should could have just done all of that with her husband if she'd just let herself.
> 
> *It's freaking common. Don't marry a woman who won't open up herself sexually to you.*


That'd be me. Married a Low Drive woman who observably DOES have a libido and strong sexual feelings in there somewhere, given how she can be so gripped with lust for passing attractive men that she walks off on me to follow them, and has become besotted with other men on several occasions when she started a new job.

Yet for all my efforts in the bedroom, trying different things, trying to talk with her, things have never really changed at all.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Ya, I'm a betrayed wife that has been faithful all seventeen years of my marriage. I could say the same thing of men. Matter of fact, turns out the group of men my WH used to travel with all cheated and they all covered for each other. My WH cheated with a 19 year old girl when I was back home, 31 with two small children. So I could say all men cheat when out of town and with young girls. Really, cheaters in general just suck despite the gender. I will admit like you, this experience has turned me off of men. It will be hard to trust again.

I would also like to add I stayed home with the kids and now at 41 I'm facing a very bleak future. I've applied to over 80 jobs with no luck. He lied to me for half our marriage so in reality he screwed me of the better years of my adult life - I could have moved on, married someone else and been able to get a job more easily. Now I have a massive gap on my resume. Not to mention my kids would have been young enough they wouldn't have understood the crap that is going on now and not be frightened they're gonna have to move or change schools. Ya, he really screwed me over.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

kipani said:


> I'm 28 and I still believe in true love. I have been with the father of my children for 7 years. I have never cheated on him and never put myself in a situation to cheat. I have boundaries and new rules for myself since joining this forum.
> 
> NO MALE FRIENDS ALLOWED! I no longer think men and women can be friends. In fact, I'm convinced they cannot. He's not allowed female friends either.
> 
> By the way generally statistically MOST women cheaters cheat after long unhappy marriages. Thats the general rule. These 2 women are an exception. Men cheat most of the time while in HAPPY marriages. These are just the stats.


Well, no, you see that's not altogether true.

It is amazing how some people (men and women) can demonise their loving, faithful spouse into a monster in order to justify their cheating.

So when not in an affair their marriage was very good. However, when in an affair their marriage suddenly transmogrifies into a life of pure, unending hell, how they never really loved their spouse, how they were this, that or the other negative trait. But their lover? My word! Easily mistaken for an angel!


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