# my wife of 10 years cheated and she is depressed and unresponsive advise please



## Jmon

Hello all!!

First I am glad I found this site there is a ton of useful information. I thought maybe the collective experience here will help me understand my situation more.

About 2 months ago, I caught my wife cheating. I knew something was going on before hand, because of her behavior but didn't say anything because she is very defensive and plus I had no proof, but it was pretty obvious she was talking to someone. I didn't snoop because it was the holidays, and there where several important dates coming up like my daughter's 16th b-day, my b-day and our 10 year anniversary. I was just hoping it was innocent conversation with friends ect... did not really think she was about to or was having an affair as of yet. Long story short, she told me early in January that she had planned to go to her friends house for one of those girls parties. Some kind of candle thing. She told me this a week before she planned on going. She drinks a lot and is 37 years old, this friend was an old party buddy and they have a history of getting trashed when they are together. Anyway I was suspicious because her friend has a son the same age as our son and when they do stuff they always include their kids. plus a few months prior to this party , her friend planned one that mysteriously got cancelled. Anyway my wife has gone out ni the past and stayed out really late or did not come home over night stating being to drunk to drive... has not happened very often only a few times in our 12 year relationship. Anyway... i ashed her before she left to be sure she calls me to let me know what she was doing. Ect.... She told me that she wanted to spend the night because she was planning on getting drunk. I said well we will see just call me. So at 1:30am I got a text stating she was drunk and staying the night, I immediately called her and no answer. Anyway.... the next morning I drove out to her friends house to see of her car was there and it was not. She text me at 11:30 am and told me she was leaving in a bit and would be home later. I told her to f-off and to grow up but did not tell her I knew she was not at her friends because I wanted to see how long she would lie. 

Anyway... she got home at like 12:30pm went straight to bed and stayed there until about 3pm the next day. I asked her about her night ect.. and she lied about everything. The next few day she acted fine as if nothing was wrong. I gave her chance after chance to tell the me truth. Anyway My daughters b-day was that week and I did not want to say anything to her until after that because obviously 16 is special. But I could not hold myself back.... I tried, so I sent her a text on the following Wednesday, Told her I had proof she did not stay at her friends house, ans asked her to quit lying. She never replied and I finally got a call from her in the after noon where she confessed. She seemed very remorseful.... said she did not want a divorce. Said it was the first time ect........ said she did not feel loved and that was the reason for the affair. 

The guy she was having an affair with lives like 4 hours away... one of her brothers friends that is 5 years younger than her and married himself with 2 little kids. We have gotten to know this guy and his wife over the years from hanging out with her brother. 

Anyway she said they just planned on meeting for dinner and they have only been talking for 3 weeks. She said she got drunk at dinner and decided to get a a hotel room ect.....

I told her that was bull.... she stopped by Walgreens before she went out to meet this guy and I asked her what she bought, she said wine and smokes. I asked her if she was planning on meeting for dinner why would she buy wine ect...and tell me she wanted to spend the night at her friends. The more I questioned her the more she shut down. She refused to talk to me about it anymore and said I did not need to know the details of that night. Anyway.... since then.....almost 3 months later she will not disclose any information to me what-so-ever. 

The first two weeks after the confession I was a mess, she was not responsive to me really at all, she just would say I love you and want to work things out. She was not talking to me about the affair and comforting me at all so that just fueled my anger. I asked to to leave and move into her moms house for a while....... she refused. I asked if she was still talking to him and she said she talked to him a couple of times and she told him she told me. At that point I knew she was pretty close to the guy emotionally. I told her I would not tell his wife.... because I did not think it was my place to. 

She did disclose the affair to my sister (they are close)... So I talked to her about it and my sister said she would come over and talk to her and try to let her know how important is is to talk to me ect... So she did on the night before my daughters b-day party(2 weeks after the confession) I went out to the bars with a couple of friends and got wasted, I came home and tried to talk to her and she refused I got mad and went to lay in my daughters bed...( I know stupid). At this point my daughter had figured everything out,... she was home with me the night my wife stayed out and asked me in the morning where her step-mom was... told her she stayed at her friends... well my daughter is friends with her friend on facebook, and my daughter was like her friend posted all these pics of the party and "your wife" is not is not in any of them.... so I told my daughter she had to watch the kids.... my son had a friend over to spend the night... and I was driving out to her friends house to see if her car wast here. Anyway obviously my daughter nagged and nagged me to tell her and kept saying I know she cheated on you... so I finally told her she did. I am not one to lie. So anyway..... While laying in bed with daughter.... we talked about it, and my wife herd and went crazy and left the house. She did home home early the next day everything went as planned for my daughters party. 

After that my wife completely shut down..... She looked very depressed and was non-responsive to anything. I sent her a email every day poring my heart our to her with no response. She finally told me that she was thinking about leaving me after that but was not sure. I asked her if she was still talking ot the guy and she said she has a hand full of times.... I looked at the phone records and she was actively communicating with him, even before the daughter incident. I asked her why she was still talking to him.. she said because that first 2 weeks she thought we where done.... ect.. and just to have someone to talk to. After that she changed to password to the on-line phone account. I know real mature. At that point I made a decision to stick it out with her and try to make things work. I stopped doing anything negative at all, and began to be really nice loving and affectionate toward her. But also attempting to communicate with her about how she felt and the affair. She just looked very depressed and shut off completely emotionally. Anyway for my b-day she was nice.....(about 3 weeks after her confession) we had sex ect...and that was the 3rd time since she told me. first 2 times in the 2 week period before she became super depressed. She told me she was thinking about getting meds.... and I just told her she needed to talk, but if she felt like she needed to to go ahead and see a doctor. She did not, and I told her we needed to go to marriage counseling and she refused. Then our anniversary was on the horizon...... I made plans to get a cabin and take her back to the place where I proposed to her for a few night. We had a really nice weekend.... did not talk about anything at all... just enjoyed each other. finally after that weekend l (about 7 weeks after her confession) she agreed to counseling and we have an appointment. 


Now where I need help.. is during the 6 or 7 weeks of her deep depression she was non responsive..... I was super nice to her... flowers kiss's hugs hand holding ect..... Email after email... with no response.... Asked her if she wanted to move out... she said sometimes she feel like it and sometimes she does not. Ect.... just basically that is all I got out of her besides she would say I love you and want to be with you in a very depressed tone while crying. Every time I brought up the affair in that 6 week period she cry and run away. One thing that bothered me during that 6 week period when I asked her about talking to him.... she said don't worry it is over.... he is married and he wants to be with his wife......

I did a ton of research because I had no where else to go for answers in regards to her behavior and silence and depression... she just went completely dark. most of the material I read suggests that she was in love with the guy she had an affair with and that was more that likely the reason for her depression. I don't know.... She will not say anything to me, but i know she is depressed. I have no idea how someone can fall in love over e-mail.. texting.. and a one night stand... makes me think the affair was longer that she told me. She said it started in December after we went our with her brother to a bar... and her guy was with us... Her bro lives out-of-town... so my wife get all of his friends together for a night out, and the guy(affair partner) lived 4 hours away.. so before hand she asked if (guy) could spend the night at our house with her brother after the bar so he did not have to get a hotel. ( at least 2 to 3 weeks before the night we planned on going out) I said that was ok. Needles to say we stayed up until 5:30 am or so listening to music and dancing with her brother and friends. She said after I and her brother went to bed they (her and Guy) stayed up for like an hour and talked and things went from there. She said nothing happened that night.... not sure If I believe that. 

Our marriage had been full of good and bad points (bot of our faults) and we where in a low point that is for sure. I have 2 kids from a previous relationship and we have one kid. She has wanted another one for-ever and we could never afford it. I have been solely responsible for my two other kids. So she has a lot of resentment to-wards them because she wanted a kid and they where in her way I guess. Anyway.... I was going to get her pregnant for our 10 year anniversary LOL..... day late dollar short.. did not tell her that... but obviously that is not happening now. 

Just want anyone's opinion on possibilities on why she is acting the was she is. She is still not talking about the affair or us..... besides she wants to work it out, and is no longer talking to guy. 

Thanks!


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## Noble1

Take some time and think about what YOU want.

If you really want to reconcile, your 'wife' needs to put your feelings first and help you get over what she did.

You are not to blame for the 'affair'.

Yes, you might have caused some of the marriage issues, but the affair is not yours to own any part of.

Her not wanting to talk about what she did and not taking responsibility are not good signs.

More experienced posters will be providing some much needed advice to you. 

It may be tough and might seem drastic, but you should seriously consider following the advice that is going to be presented to you.

Good luck.


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## harrybrown

She is still in the A.

File for divorce, she does not respect you.

You also need to tell his wife what is going on with the A.

Expose because she is still having contact.

If she wants to stay, she has to stop all contact with the OM.

Sorry for your pain, but you can't fix it by yourself, it takes two.

Did you have her get tested for stds? How would she feel if you had the A? she should be busting her butt to be nice to you, to write you a timeline of the A, and not you being nice to her.

Have her leave and take her over to the OM's house and let her live there with the OM and his wife.

Start the 180, you will not nice her out of the A. start doing things for yourself.


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## bandit.45

Amazing how these cheaters always play the depression card. 

She's not depressed, she's an actress. 

end it.


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## Dyokemm

You are trying to 'nice' her back to the M.

It does not work.....and in fact the A has never ended because you have allowed it to continue by failing to expose it to POSOM's BW.

You want him away from your WW?......TELL HIS BW.

You need to give your WW a swift dose of reality....file for D and only speak to her about the proceedings, kids, and other necessities.

Expose the A to both of your families and all friends.

Inform her the only way you will consider stopping the D and working on the M is if she ends the A immediately, goes total NC with this POS, and gets fully honest about the details of the A.....anything less and she gets the boot.

Her depression, btw, is most likely because she is sad that she cannot continue the A fully with this POS anymore now that you caught her....she is pining for her lost love.....it is NOT because she destroyed you and her M.

POS will have far less time to worry about talking to your WW once he is exposed to his BW...he will be too busy trying to save his own worthless a**.....probably he will throw your WW under the bus to his BW in order to save himself, so she will get to see first hand how her 'soulmate' Mr. Wonderful is actually a POS that used her for a booty call.

And make sure her brother knows about his friend....I don't know him, but I can say this.....if it came out that one of my friends had been involved in an A with my sister and helped destroy her M and family, I would personally go over to his place and give him some 'correction' on his behavior.


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## Jmon

She states that she wants nothing to do with him anymore....but yes anyone in their right mind would not believe her.


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## rrrbbbttt

Go nuclear:

1. Tell the OM's wife she needs to know what a POS she is married to.

2. Inform her family and your family, you do not need to be painted in a color of being a bas**t of a husband who does not understand her depression.

3. Do the 180 for yourself.

She is trying to get you to be the husband who "pleases" her, compassionate because she is depressed, etc.

She broke it she needs to fix it.

As long as she has contact with the POS the likelihood that you will be able to get her to see what is going on is highly unlikely.

Don't give her Days, or weeks you have already provided her with a route to show remorse and she has not nor has she seen the amount of hurt she has caused to her family.

She is still in contact with the POS!! What does this tell you.


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## ConanHub

If she won't comply with your requests for information and do everything in her power to show remorse, divorce her.

She needs to go NC with her AP and you need to expose, especially to the other man's wife. Necessary!

Read up.on the 180. She should be being nice to you not vice versa!

Have the divorce papers drawn up and filed. You don't have to go through with it if she turns it around.

Stop listening to her. She is a liar! You have no idea how long she cheated or how many times she let that idiot stick his penis in her.

Tell her to give you everything you ask for or divorce her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Read the whole thread by BFF and picture yourself there in two years.

We've seen this setup before. Woe is me. I got caught.

Run the phone history to find out how far it really goes back.


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## LongWalk

Do unto others as you would have them do to you. So tell OM's wife. She may squeeze more details out of him so that you can match stories and extract more truth.

Your wife was high on being in love. That won't disappear overnight. And it won't disappear if it is fed by secret communications.

Your wife is a cheater. Her liminal mind wanted OM's sperm to get missing child started, a clear violation of your marital contract. Ask her if she thinks time is running out for second child? She has done more to break your marriage and jeopardize your family planning.

Is your wife a fundamentally decent person? Do you respect her as a mother? Is she hard working? When she was happy did you enjoy her company?

Does she come from a family with problems? How did her parents' marriage go?

And the drinking, how much does drink? Why does she have to get drunk to have a good time?

Does she work out? She may need some hard training to change her brain chemistry.

Being needy won't make you attractive to her.


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## HarryDoyle

So much to say, So little time. 

What I can say is she is doing the exact OPPOSITE of what she should be doing if she wanted to reconcile. I mean everything except leaving, and it sounds like that's what's next. 

Look up "rug sweeping" and "cake eating".


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## Jmon

Yes she is a good mother and our marriage has been great at times......fyi....she just let me look through her phone and I found nothing....but didn't have that much time to look through it.


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## Jmon

Her mom had a 10 year affair fyi


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## Jmon

She is fundenemtaly a good person and hard working by far!!!!


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## Roselyn

Your daughter and her friends already know that your wife is cheating on you. Good conversation fodder for a skanky stepmother. You need to tell the Other Man's wife. You are in denial. You've made yourself a doormat. Your wife does not respect you at all. 

Read the entries in Emily J's posts. You can learn from this strong woman. You need to build your self-esteem and face your wayward wife. 

You need to see a psychologist to get your head straight. Your wife trolls bars for men, have sex with a man younger than her (an irresponsible cougar), gets drunk, and lies. You only know of whatever redeeming qualities that your wife has. You will definitely remain tortured with this woman in your life.


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## Jmon

Not really in denial....just want to sAve my family if there is A chance!


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## Divinely Favored

I'd tell brother his friend is doing his sister/your wife. If you are close to BIL he may whop buddy's azz for you. When my sister cheated on my BIL I was ready to help him dispose of the body if he wanted to go that route. You need to expose or you will look weak to her. Start with OBS. Get her phone and recover texts.


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## Jmon

Not really. I don't want to cause more problems that already exist. I am not weak at all just a caring person. I almost cheated on her when things got bad just never cross ed the line. I believe people are entitled to making mistakes.


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## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: my wife of 10 years cheated and she is depressed and unresponsive advise plea*



Jmon said:


> Not really in denial....just want to sAve my family if there is A chance!


There is a chance if you start to narrow down her options. 

1) End the A and work on the marriage together
2) Start the divorce and move on with both your lives
3) Live with her and the OM in your relationship 

Be decisive. Stop trying to work her. Do what you need for you. Start taking away her choices. Let her know you both deserve better marriage, and if she can't agree to work towards that, you will move on with your life. If you don't, he looks a stronger and a better alternative. Start taking the third choice away by telling his wife too. If that doesn't work then start the process of divorce. That may or may not shake her, but the only other alternative is you live with option 3. 

Best


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## Dyokemm

How is not telling POSOM's BW that he is f*cking around on her with your WW (and she might not be the only one) being a caring person?

Sorry, but sitting there knowing she is being betrayed by this scumbag and letting her live a lie that she has a loyal H and good M is not caring...it is cruel.


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## Jmon

True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


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## 6301

First of all you better snap up a pair of big boy pants real quick and stop making all these half ass excuses for her. She had an affair and rather then for her to do the right things and answer the questions, your letting her do a first class job of rug sweeping and it will come back and haunt you.

If it's me, I hire a lawyer, file and have her served, and then she'll know that she can't just blow it off. Let her know that if she wants the marriage to work then answer the questions you have and show remorse through actions not just words.

Second thing you better do is get her to AA meetings because the woman has a drinking problem and it gets her in trouble. If you need set up a polygraph test for her to take. Let her know and her reaction should tell you everything and last stop falling for the trail of bull$h!t she's leaving and stop playing the nice guy or you'll lose.

Oh yeah. One more. For Gods sake man don't get in the same bed with your 16 year old daughter. You must have a death wish. Sleep on the couch or the floor or your wife can use that against you and your in deep trouble trying to explain that one


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## alte Dame

I understand your reasoning for not telling the OM's wife, but you are wrong.

It is definitely your business. Your WW having an affair with a married man with 2 small children makes it your business.

His betrayed W has a right to know what is going on in her life. You don't realize it, but you are making decisions about her life. You are deciding that she doesn't need vital information. Why is that your right?

I think your WW is still in the affair. If you tell the OM's wife, you not only do the decent thing, you stand some chance of breaking them up. Right now you look very weak. Taking an affirmative step and exposing the A to the OM's wife would be a sign of strength.


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## Jmon

Yea I agree that was stupid.... but anyway not 2 worried about thAT. I FEEL LIKE A RETARD DOING THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. but yes I am trying to handle.this whole thing in a peaceful manner. It is not that I am scared to loose her at all. I am content with myself. But there is a lot riding on my life I have built and am not going to.give it away without trying to resolve the this. but yea trust me I thought about blowing the whOle thing up and going nuclear but what is the point. I feel it will only cause more problems....and gasoline to a fire only us helpful when. You want something destroyed!!!


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## Jmon

His wife will eventually find out if he stays on the same path.... and I put myself in other people's shoes....I don't think they are still having the affair. But I could be wrong. She has not left the house besides work for the most part since she told me. And she is not talking to hin unless it is at work. So.... and not making exudes for my wife.....but she has always been reluctant to talk about problems has has always been someone to run away from issues rather than deal with the. I do think I am doing the right thing but have not talked to a counsleor.yet but we are going next monday... should be interesting and wife says she is committed to going.... so we will see. The step kid mommy thing has put a ton of stress on our marriage. That being said there is no exuse for her actions but I do believe in second chances and believe that people can change.


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## anchorwatch

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.



Too late for that. You're all involved in each others marriage. It's your responsibility to protect your marriage and family from intruders. Not to stick your head in the ground and wait for it to go away. You're just trying manipulate the outcome out of fear. The problem is you don't really have a relationship anymore. You'll learn that when base your decisions on fear you can't win. 

Did that fear lead you to this situation in the first place?


Here you might find the help you're seeking reading these...

After the Affair

NOT "Just Friends":

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


Good luck


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## NotLikeYou

Jmon said:


> Just want anyone's opinion on possibilities on why she is acting the was she is. She is still not talking about the affair or us..... besides she wants to work it out, and is no longer talking to guy.
> 
> Thanks!


In my opinion, she is acting this way because it is the easiest way for her to act. She still loves OM, and her heart is broken at the thought of not seeing him any more.

Plus. by acting this way, she doesn't have to actually face any consequences for betraying her husband who is so strong of character that he will do anything to stay married to her.

They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, and a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

But you're only looking for opinions, and have dismissed every single bit of advice you have received from the good posters of TAM who have commented on your thread.

This will be a painful and interesting read. Where's that popcorn emoticon?


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## ConanHub

Your mindset is totally wrong. With your current attitude and lack of effective actions, you will fail.

Don't complain. You didn't deserve or earn to be cheated on but you will have earned every ounce of pain your current course will bring you. Enjoy your shyt sandwich. Your wife certainly doesn't mind feeding it to you and, so far, you don't seem to mind eating it.

Enjoy! &#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;&#55357;&#56840;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


Either you are not bright, a coward or a selfish *******. At the least you wouldn't have the decency to let this man's wife know who she married? Or don't you understand that exposing bad behavior to the world is the most effective way to kill the behavior?


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## lostmyreligion

ConanHub said:


> Your mindset is totally wrong. With your current attitude and lack of effective actions, you will fail.
> 
> Don't complain. You didn't deserve or earn to be cheated on but you will have earned every ounce of pain your current course will bring you. Enjoy your shyt sandwich. Your wife certainly doesn't mind feeding it to you and, so far, you don't seem to mind eating it.
> 
> Enjoy! ������
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: The brutal truth.


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## BetrayedDad

Get a copy of the book, "Married Man Sex Life Primer" and don't come back here until you read it cover to cover. 

Some dude sticks his d!ck inside your wife and you don't think its "your responsibility" to blow his sh!t up????? Where's the outrage? She's depressed because she LOVES him and doesn't respect you! This affair is absolutely still going on, don't be so naive. Telling the wife will crush it immediately.

Wake up man! You need to STOP acting like your lucky to have her and start acting like she's lucky you haven't thrown her stuff on the lawn and set a match to it already. She wants you to be p!ssed, she wants you to blow everything up, and your failing her sh!t test spectacularly.


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## bfree

Jmon, the veterans here have seen it all. We've seen the ones that listen to those that have been there and we've seen ones like you that think they know better. We know where you are headed and it's exactly where you say you don't want to go. If you want to save your marriage and family why are you doing the exact opposite of what those that have been where you are now are counseling? Why are you going against every marital expert? While it may be true that you know your wife better than those offering advice here in your thread I would suggest that those people you are dismissing know your disloyal wife better than you do. Human nature is not that complicated. We see your wife displaying the same behavior as other disloyals. And we see you behaving the same as so many before you. Wake up man. There is a lot at stake here. Time to start getting serious.


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## Jmon

Wow ....there is no reMorse here what-so-ever? yes I was in a fit of rage.....and I do want to blow it up....but if don't why does that mean I my purpose is doomed. She said she is trying and has agreed to couseling. She just does not want to talk about the affair and says In time she may feel better but over all just wants to try to enjoy my company without the issues being thrown up.in her face.... yes that is very weak and wrong and I am near my tolerance of iT. But some of the things you all are suggesting could just make the matters worse. For her and me...for instance what if we do get a divorse.....and she holds that hatred inside and makes the whole process a lot more difficult for me. Ect...... even if get a divorce I would rather it be peaceful than violent. Why does that not make seance?


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## tom67

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


This is HER fault and yes it is your obligation to inform the other betrayed spouse because she has a MEDICAL right to know at the very least.:banghead::wtf:


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## anchorwatch

You are behind the curve. You'll need to catch up as quick as you can. Get the books recommended. Read them. Open your eyes to things you never thought about. Then come back with an informed mind.


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## tom67

Jmon said:


> Wow ....there is no reMorse here what-so-ever? yes I was in a fit of rage.....and I do want to blow it up....but if don't why does that mean I my purpose is doomed. She said she is trying and has agreed to couseling. She just does not want to talk about the affair and says In time she may feel better but over all just wants to try to enjoy my company without the issues being thrown up.in her face.... yes that is very weak and wrong and I am near my tolerance of iT. But some of the things you all are suggesting could just make the matters worse. For her and me...for instance what if we do get a divorse.....and she holds that hatred inside and makes the whole process a lot more difficult for me. Ect...... even if get a divorce I would rather it be peaceful than violent. Why does that not make seance?


So by this thinking are you going to give her whatever she wants if she wants a divorce.
I mean you want it peaceful right?

:scratchhead:
Spidey here
You are making a doormat look attractive.
Sorry I'm out.


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## Jmon

Good point...but no I would fight tooth and nail for what I wanted. just thought she would be more agreeable with my terms if I had some the ace I the hole. Does that make seance?


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## sidney2718

I understand your reluctance to confront the OM's wife. I even understand your reluctance to confront your own wife.

But folks here are right.

Let me try to explain it to you. If your wife was totally in love with the OM she'd be happy to divorce you. She isn't. That most likely means that the OM is a pleasureable interlude, someone she can talk to, get affection from, and have care free sexual pleasure with. It is like boyhood when you went over to play with a friends' train set.

So right now your wife is trapped between losing you and losing the OM. The OM knows what went on, so there's no chance for her keeping anything from him. But you don't know what went on and it is probably much worse than anything she's told you. Why? Because she does not want to get you too upset because then you might really divorce her.

So what should you do? Wait for the affair to end? I'd think not, you'd look like an ass and in the end she'd lose all respect for you. 

Then your only realistic thing to do is to bust up the affair. There are several ways to do this, but all involve taking a risk. What I'd do is three things: first, I'd let the wife know that the affair has to end. Either she does it or you will blow it out of the water. When will you do this? The timing is a week or two,. Second I'd file for divorce. There is nothing that will convince her that you are serious more than filing. And make that the same time period, a week or two.

Don't tell her your time period. That's for her to worry about. If she gets annoyed at you and walks out, file anyway. You have nothing to lose.

And the third thing is that after the affair is over and with her wanting a reconciliation, you tell her that the only way to do that is for her to come clean about EVERYTHING. The first refusal to talk, the first lie, the first evasion, and you will go ahead with the divorce.

She may scream and moan, cry and tear her hair, but if she does just remind her that she brought this on herself.

Think about it. She can go on the way she is now for months, years even. But you can't. You can only prove your love to her by being willing to set her free. In time she will understand that.


----------



## Thound

Cmon Jmon. You are getting solid advice from people who have been in your exact same situation. Listen to them and ACT!!!
:banghead::banghead:


----------



## just got it 55

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


Jmon this is how you get the OM out of your marriage and your life

It gets the OM out of your WW life

It's what needs to be done and......OMW has a right to know don't you think ?

Your responsibility is to protect your mariage and family if that's what you want This is the way to do it.

I think it foolish not to expose this and put it to an end now.

55


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> She just does not want to talk about the affair...


Herein lies your biggest problem. She just dealt a death-blow to your marriage, yet *she* doesn't want to talk about it. Who exactly does she propose you talk to help resolve this? A once-a-week marriage counselor? Sorry, that doesn't cut it.



Jmon said:


> In time she may feel better...


*She* may feel better?

How the heck does she think *you* feel??



Jmon said:


> ...but over all just wants to try to enjoy my company without the issues being thrown up in her face....


She should have thought of that before she stepped out on you. Generally when people really botch things up, it tends to get thrown back in their face to some degree.

I think you are both in denial and it will come back to haunt you if not dealt with effectively.


----------



## Thound

just got it 55 said:


> Jmon this is how you get the OM out of your marriage and your life
> 
> It gets the OM out of your WW life
> 
> It's what needs to be done and......OMW has a right to know don't you think ?
> 
> Your responsibility is to protect your mariage and family if that's what you want This is the way to do it.
> 
> I think it foolish not to expose this and put it to an end now.
> 
> 55



The OM will be so busy trying to save his marriage he won't have time for your wife.


----------



## Jmon

Why are you all convinced she is still talking to him? She swears she is not and does not want to???


----------



## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: my wife of 10 years cheated and she is depressed and unresponsive advise plea*



Jmon said:


> Good point...but no I would fight tooth and nail for what I wanted. just thought she would be more agreeable with my terms if I had some the ace I the hole. Does that make seance?


It's hedging you bet. It means you're not all in. This is a marriage. It's played to win, not to come out even. 

Is that the way you conduct you life? Is that the way you've conducted your marriage?


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> Why are you all convinced she is still talking to him? She swears she is not and does not want to???


Ok, you don't have to take our word for it. She swears she's not talking to him, so it must be true.

(She also said nothing happened after you went to bed the night he was over at your house, and yet you're not sure you believe that.)


----------



## kennethk

Jmon said:


> Why are you all convinced she is still talking to him? She swears she is not and does not want to???


Because they have seen this before repeatedly... almost to a T.
Its called the "cheaters script" and the Nice Guy response that never seems to work in the long run. 

Been reading TAM for a solid year and I am amazed at how right these folks always are.

oh... and your wife is a liar. Proven.


----------



## tom67

Jmon said:


> Why are you all convinced she is still talking to him? She swears she is not and does not want to???


She works with him right?


----------



## HarryDoyle

*Just saying *


----------



## Jmon

No she does not work with him....he lives like 4 hours away. She had drive like 2 hours to meet him so they could screw assuming it was the first time. She has not stayed out all night for a long time several years...most of her time before that. An be accounted for unless.it was a late work day.


----------



## Jmon

And no that is not how I live my life but in a circumstance like this I am hedging my bet .


----------



## tom67

Read these links
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

How to Project a Sexual State and Bypass a Woman's Logical Defenses

The last one is eh but it gets the point across.


----------



## adriana

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.



Jmon, your passivity in this whole situation is both.... repulsive and puzzling. And, as a woman I can assure you that if your wife, after enjoying her steamy affair with her brother's friend, still had any tiny amount of respect for you left.... it is all gone now.

I wish you all the best.... but, with your current attitude, it's only a matter of time before you will be running to hide in your daughter's bed again.


----------



## the guy

I would do what ever I had to do to confirm that there is no longer any contact between the two of them.

There a a few folks replying that have been here a while (maybe not as long as me) and we are all concerned about a false R. It happens all the time.

This shyts addicting so please don't under estimate this affair. Cover your @ss and verify your old ladies intentions. 

I'm guessing your old lady took it really hard that she got used by this POS and still can't believe this guy is picking his wife over her "after all they have been through" and what he told her.

Your old lady gor played and she is embarrestedf, she got busted and she is also a shamed. and to top it all off she is totaly addicted to this young penis.

End of the day your old lady is going through withdraws, she feels like crap, and in the end...like most addict..."phuck it I already screwed up I'll find some one else"!

I hope I'm wrong with this thinking but what has she really learned, what has she really had to face? Weak people say phuck it and figure they are already screw ups so who care....its easier to give up and give in and continue to phuck around.

Strong people face their bad choices and take control and fix their shyt......understanding that some of the hardest challenges bring the greatest rewards!

What kind of chick is your old lady?


----------



## the guy

For what it's worth my old lady screwed around a hell of a lot longer and with way more guys then yours....the thing is my old lady faced her bull crap head on and learned the tools to stop her phucked up behavior......I'm worrried about yours brother! she's hiding from her self.

That's my $0.02


----------



## Jmon

Wow that was Not nice... I was really drunK...confused trust me it will never happen again. And if my lovely wife does not respect me then she needs to go. I am not trying to resolve this out of anger.....naturally if my lively wife looked depressed I was going to try to help her.....but yes....... nice guy **** is not working so it is time to get tough!!!!


----------



## the guy

One more thing.... I'd tell your brother in law that if his friend ever comes around your wife/his sister you will phuck up that guys world.

And if he wants clarification you will bring him his friends wife's panties!

But hey that's just me....I'm wired a little different then most of these fine folks here at TAM.


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> One more thing.... I'd tell your brother in law that if his friend ever comes around your wife/his sister you will phuck up that guys world.
> 
> And if he wants clarification you will bring him his friends wife's panties!


Jmon
sigh...
You have to show her consequences even the ladies here said she will lose all respect for you.


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> One more thing.... I'd tell your brother in law that if his friend ever comes around your wife/his sister you will phuck up that guys world.
> 
> And if he wants clarification you will bring him his friends wife's panties!
> 
> But hey that's just me....I'm wired a little different then most of these fine folks here at TAM.


NO!:iagree::iagree:
I just turned 48 and won't put up with this.
At 30 I definitely would have tolerated more bs.


----------



## the guy

The question is why is your old lady depressed?
Being caught?
Losing her lover?
Losing her family cuz she want OM but Om doesn't want her?


There is a lot of shyt going on her and your old lady ain't talking!

If it was me my old lady just cost a relationship with her brother. You know dam well he knew about this affair.

Have you had a few words with the BIL?


----------



## the guy

tom67 said:


> NO!:iagree::iagree:
> I just turned 48 and won't put up with this.
> At 30 I definitely would have tolerated more bs.


Been 48 for a while...at 28 my old lady just started phucking around, by 38 she was full blown seriel cheater, these days no phucking way is my old lady going to do that GNO bs and have me around the next day.

Years ago me and the old lady should have laid it all out on the table...instead we ignored it and she continued to phuck around.


----------



## Jmon

No he does not know he lives in California and the guy lives in midwest. So no he does not know I don't think unless wife told him....she sis tell my sister about it. After she told me.


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## Jmon

Yes she is going to change or it will be over I am not afraid what so ever to be with out her just want to give her a chance I have known her half my life.


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## tom67

Jmon said:


> Yes she is going to change or it will be over I am not afraid what so ever to be with out her just want to give her a chance I have known her half my life.


Simply put by showing strength you may have a chance to get her back.
BE the person that DEMANDS respect.


----------



## the guy

Jmon said:


> Yes she is going to change or it will be over I am not afraid what so ever to be with out her just want to give her a chance I have known her half my life.


I though she wasn't talking.....How the hell do you know she wants to change???/ from were I'm sitting she wants to change for the worst.

I'm just say you guys have to open this can of worm wide open and learn from it.

She has to learn the tools to affair proof the marriage. Cuz when life get busy and you are out there making ends meet is your old lady going to go find it else were?

You say "she is going to change" ...she needs to find out what she wants and have the balls to tell you to your face with out this shouting down crap she is pulling!

You will never heal if she keeps that up. I have been there and resentment builds and you guys get even further apart ...and we all know what your old lady does when that happens.

Can your old lady fall back in love with you and phuck your brains out? You guys should be going at it like rabbits?

You guys did "it" a few times since d-day.....IDK!


----------



## Jmon

Yes we have ****ed several times. She is not talking but told her if.she does.not start confronting her problems it is Over.....she is sleeping on the couch. Lol...said I was.insulting her. Because.i.told.her.she.needs to grow up gave her two hard kisses on the lips and now I am in bed. told.her.I was about done and she was.going to loose me unless she.grows up.


----------



## ConanHub

Jmon said:


> Yes we have ****ed several times. She is not talking but told her if.she does.not start confronting her problems it is Over.....she is sleeping on the couch. Lol...said I was.insulting her. Because.i.told.her.she.needs to grow up gave her two hard kisses on the lips and now I am in bed. told.her.I was about done and she was.going to loose me unless she.grows up.


Getting there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> Not really. I don't want to cause more problems that already exist. I am not weak at all just a caring person.* I almost cheated on her when things got bad just never cross ed the line. *I believe people are entitled to making mistakes.


Does your wife know that you almost cheated on her at some point?

I agree with you, people are entitled to a second chance.

People are giving you a lot of info here. But they also have great imaginations and are projecting onto your situation from the hundreds of affairs they have read about here on TAM and in their own lives.

Take the info and suggestions given and apply them to your life as you see fit. What does not make sense now, may make sense later.

One thing that I think will give you a strong plan of action is the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley. It fits along the line that you are thinking and have one thus far. I highly suggest you read the book. You wife would benefit from reading it as well.


----------



## the guy

tom67 said:


> Simply put by showing strength you may have a chance to get her back.
> BE the person that DEMANDS respect.


One can't "demand" respect, but one can command respect by leading their marriage with boundaries and thoughtful comprimise that enriches and protects the family unit.

Being tough doesn't mean shyt unless the end game is to keep a family unit together, and BTW that can be done with or with out a wayward spouse that is not like minded.

You can't control your wife so don't try, but you can control the well being of your family if your wife wants to be single by letting her go if she is going to be in a toxic enviroment to the family.

Be decisive and clear....if you want to be tough then set your boundaries and the consequences for when those boundaries are crossed... that's being protective...it's up to your wife to except this protection or not.

At the end of the day you lost her once.....the both of you can work together to prevent that or she can continue to shut down and hide.


----------



## Sports Fan

The only thing that she is depressed about is that you caught her. Also you have gone about this all wrong.

She cheated yet you are the one that is getting all the consequences.

I say this with respect, man up do a 180 on her and stop supporting her. Not only has she cheated you have tolerated her continuing communication with him whilst pining over her like a little puppy.

If you really want to save this marriage only by doing a complete 180 where she faces real consequences for her actions might things change.


----------



## the guy

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife know that you almost cheated on her at some point?
> 
> I agree with you, people are entitled to a second chance.
> 
> People are giving you a lot of info here. But they also have great imaginations and are projecting onto your situation from the hundreds of affairs they have read about here on TAM and in their own lives.
> 
> Take the info and suggestions given and apply them to your life as you see fit. What does not make sense now, may make sense later.
> 
> One thing that I think will give you a strong plan of action is the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley. It fits along the line that you are thinking and have one thus far. I highly suggest you read the book. You wife would benefit from reading it as well.


:iagree:
I for one get carried away, but is is important to make your own plan and work the plan with you and your spouse.

It is a fact...you and your old lady need to get educated and learn the tools in affair proofing a marriage.


----------



## LongWalk

You need MC to discuss various strands of thought.

She resented being a step mom, so that entitled her to drink and fornicate to forget her troubles?

She wanted a second child with you and when you delayed it, she got another man to inseminate her. Is that her justification in her own mind?

Saving your marriage is a legitimate goal. Forgiving your wife is fine. But let us address the original problem, your wife's depression. She was in love with OM and the excitement of having sex with him. Sex gave the two of them intense pleasure because it was smothered with infidelity catchup. Now she has lost that high. It will take some time for her to get her brain rewired.

You want her so direct her attention towards you because you are also in need. But she feels you are not attractive. How can you fix that? 

Don't mope. Hit the gym. Stand up straight. Act like you know the score in life. You are going to make it. Fake till you make it. Let her wallow in her depression. If she talks to you, listen carefully. Do not lose your temper. Don't not shout. Do not accept her rug sweeping.

If you tell OMW about the affair, what will happen? OM may contact your wife to complain that she has wrecked his marriage. Should she feel sorry for him? Is he not going to think well of her?

What is the age difference between your daughters and their half brother?


----------



## RWB

Jmon,

Harsh Meds.

As counter intuitive as it sounds... you have to be willing (show your WW) to end your marriage with her to actually save it. The truth is you cannot Nice your way back. Your WW is riding the fence. She must see exactly what the future holds without you. 

Don't listen to her words... confused lies, half truths... watch her actions. If she is truly remorseful and wants to R, then she should answer all your questions, provide a timeline, basically an open book. 

Anything less, ie rugsweeping, it is a waste of time.


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Yes she is a good mother and our marriage has been great at times......fyi....she just let me look through her phone and I found nothing....but didn't have that much time to look through it.


What kind of phone is it?


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


#1 OMW deserves to know that her husband has been stepping out on her.

#2 The absolute best way to ensure zero contact between your WW and OM is to expose the affair to OMW.

#3 Initiating contact w/ OMW may turn out to be beneficial to you; if she already knows about the affair, she may be able to give you additional information that your WW hasn't given you. For example, you might find out that they're still in contact, or you might get some of the details that your WW hasn't been willing to share up to this point.


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Wow ....there is no reMorse here what-so-ever? yes I was in a fit of rage.....and I do want to blow it up....but if don't why does that mean I my purpose is doomed. *She said she is trying and has agreed to couseling. She just does not want to talk about the affair and says In time she may feel better but over all just wants to try to enjoy my company without the issues being thrown up.in her face*.... yes that is very weak and wrong and I am near my tolerance of iT. But some of the things you all are suggesting could just make the matters worse. For her and me...for instance what if we do get a divorse.....and she holds that hatred inside and makes the whole process a lot more difficult for me. Ect...... even if get a divorce I would rather it be peaceful than violent. Why does that not make seance?


You poor, naive fool.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Roselyn
> Your daughter and her friends already know that your wife is cheating on you. Good conversation fodder for a skanky stepmother. You need to tell the Other Man's wife. You are in denial. You've made yourself a doormat. Your wife does not respect you at all.
> 
> Read the entries in Emily J's posts. You can learn from this strong woman. You need to build your self-esteem and face your wayward wife.
> 
> You need to see a psychologist to get your head straight. Your wife trolls bars for men, have sex with a man younger than her (an irresponsible cougar), gets drunk, and lies. You only know of whatever redeeming qualities that your wife has. You will definitely remain tortured with this woman in your life.



Roselyn’s post above is spot on! Let me add some more truths to the list:

Facts about your wife

Your wife trolls bars
Has sex with other man
Gets drunk
She lies
*RESENTS YOUR CHILDREN!*


Facts about Jmon
You want to save your family
Don’t want to cause more problems
You say that you are not weak but just a caring person



> By Jmon
> I was super nice to her... flowers kiss's hugs hand holding ect..... Email after email... with no response



I do not know if you are weak and compromising or just very naive. Gus maybe right!

*You do a great bit of harm to yourself and her by trying to nice her into making everything OK and you are enabling her*. What she has done requires a strong man to take the right actions and you being fearful and nicey nicey is preventing her from facing some tough consequences that may jar her into doing everything that she can to build herself back up and to save the marriage and the family. You are not taking the right actions and she is not doing everything to help herself or the family.

She has severely damaged her self-esteem and her integrity in the marriage. She is weak and emotionally damaged and needs help. Either you help her or get the hell out of the way and have a professional help her. In order for her to get better and have a chance at saving the marriage she will have to face some real tough times and so will you. The actions that she AS DONE AS LISTED ABOVE ARE THAT OF A TEENAGER AND NOT A STRONG ADULT. Your wife is damaged and needs to get help to face the hard times that are inevitable.

*You think that you know how to get her better but what has been the results of your actions do far?*


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> And no that is not how I live my life but in a circumstance like this I am hedging my bet .


Then your marriage is already over because you won't make a decision.


----------



## cgiles

Your issue jmon is a very common one. 

You are simply a nice guy. 

You want to be loved, and think it's by being nice you will be loved. 

But it doesn't work like this. 

It's by respecting yourself you will be loved. 

You want to save your marriage and protect your family. 

But you can't as now. You don't have the tools for. 

First you need to accept your marriage, as you knew it, is done.

The woman you loved and married, is gone. 

The woman you are married now, she is a stranger. 

Get this book :https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Don't judge it by its cover or title, just read it. 

It's the first book you must read for be able to protect your family.

For now forget your marriage, and focus on your children. 

How they are, when they see their mom/step mom depressed ? 

What your duaghter thinks of you as she sees you being a doormat ? 
Yes it's violent, but you let your wife walks on you, and POSOM too. 
Just by curiosity, if POSOM's wife knew about their affairs, but you didn't, would you appreciate she informs you, or you would prefer to live in a lie ?


----------



## Jmon

LongWalk said:


> You need MC to discuss various strands of thought.
> 
> She resented being a step mom, so that entitled her to drink and fornicate to forget her troubles?
> 
> She wanted a second child with you and when you delayed it, she got another man to inseminate her. Is that her justification in her own mind?
> 
> Saving your marriage is a legitimate goal. Forgiving your wife is fine. But let us address the original problem, your wife's depression. She was in love with OM and the excitement of having sex with him. Sex gave the two of them intense pleasure because it was smothered with infidelity catchup. Now she has lost that high. It will take some time for her to get her brain rewired.
> 
> You want her so direct her attention towards you because you are also in need. But she feels you are not attractive. How can you fix that?
> 
> Don't mope. Hit the gym. Stand up straight. Act like you know the score in life. You are going to make it. Fake till you make it. Let her wallow in her depression. If she talks to you, listen carefully. Do not lose your temper. Don't not shout. Do not accept her rug sweeping.
> 
> If you tell OMW about the affair, what will happen? OM may contact your wife to complain that she has wrecked his marriage. Should she feel sorry for him? Is he not going to think well of her?
> 
> What is the age difference between your daughters and their half brother?



Good advise here. The guy she screwed is fixed.... so I don't think there was any intention of baby thing. I have 2 kids from a previous relationship.... My daughter is 16 and I have 2 sons..... 13 and 9. The 9 yr old is ours. She has held a lot of resentment to my kids and me because she wanted an other kid. That is where most of our problems have come from. We could not afford it and I did not have time for it. But the resentment also comes from the fact that My daughter and son's mother went full retard and started dating a drug addict had 3 more kids and could not do anything for the 2 we had. So we became fully responsible for everything for my 2 kids..... Now as my wife helped raise my 2 kids and my x was having kids left and right and living a ****ty life..... she could not understand why she was doing a good thing and could not get what she wanted. The thing that sucks is I recognized that just could not do anything about it. We lived in a ****ty school district and I had to get them out of there so I spent all my money buying a new house in a good school district. Now our plan was to sell our old house but it was not successful so we rented it. she nagged about a baby once we moved and there was no room in the budget for it. She continued to be rude over it so I got burnt out. However I had a change of heart a few years agao and tried to get her pregnant..... nothing happened... she started to be rude and *****y again and acted like she hated her life so I quit. Now a few years later I decided to try again and found out she cheated on me.... so obviously tat is on hold.


----------



## BobSimmons

Jmon said:


> *True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. *My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


Of course it's not *wink wink* of course it's not...


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Good advise here. *The guy she screwed is fixed.... so I don't think there was any intention of baby thing.* I have 2 kids from a previous relationship.... My daughter is 16 and I have 2 sons..... 13 and 9. The 9 yr old is ours. She has held a lot of resentment to my kids and me because she wanted an other kid. That is where most of our problems have come from. We could not afford it and I did not have time for it. But the resentment also comes from the fact that My daughter and son's mother went full retard and started dating a drug addict had 3 more kids and could not do anything for the 2 we had. So we became fully responsible for everything for my 2 kids..... Now as my wife helped raise my 2 kids and my x was having kids left and right and living a ****ty life..... she could not understand why she was doing a good thing and could not get what she wanted. The thing that sucks is I recognized that just could not do anything about it. We lived in a ****ty school district and I had to get them out of there so I spent all my money buying a new house in a good school district. Now our plan was to sell our old house but it was not successful so we rented it. she nagged about a baby once we moved and there was no room in the budget for it. She continued to be rude over it so I got burnt out. However I had a change of heart a few years agao and tried to get her pregnant..... nothing happened... she started to be rude and *****y again and acted like she hated her life so I quit. Now a few years later I decided to try again and found out she cheated on me.... so obviously tat is on hold.


According to who?


----------



## Jmon

cgiles said:


> Your issue jmon is a very common one.
> 
> You are simply a nice guy.
> 
> You want to be loved, and think it's by being nice you will be loved.
> 
> But it doesn't work like this.
> 
> It's by respecting yourself you will be loved.
> 
> You want to save your marriage and protect your family.
> 
> But you can't as now. You don't have the tools for.
> 
> First you need to accept your marriage, as you knew it, is done.
> 
> The woman you loved and married, is gone.
> 
> The woman you are married now, she is a stranger.
> 
> Get this book :https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
> 
> Don't judge it by its cover or title, just read it.
> 
> It's the first book you must read for be able to protect your family.
> 
> For now forget your marriage, and focus on your children.
> 
> How they are, when they see their mom/step mom depressed ?
> 
> What your duaghter thinks of you as she sees you being a doormat ?
> Yes it's violent, but you let your wife walks on you, and POSOM too.
> Just by curiosity, if POSOM's wife knew about their affairs, but you didn't, would you appreciate she informs you, or you would prefer to live in a lie ?



I understand all of this. And yes my wife seems like a stranger to me. I know I marriage ended and we have to start over if it is going to work. 

Yes my daughter seems me as a doormat right now. It is not fun at all. As far as the kids they are fine. I have spent most of my time with them now. Yes they see her depressed and as up until a few weeks ago my wife just started to re-engage with her son the way she use to. So she my wife is starting to get better but her depression is really spotty. Especially after we screw.... she seems super depressed the next day. 

Our marriage was pretty toxic due to all the issues we have had and was not good what-so-ever. He wanting another kid.... she resenting my kids... and be being burnt out for doing so much to try to make everyone happy and not getting anything in return from my wife... but *****iness. She actually started treating me like one of her step-kids. Now for the purpose of clarity.... my kids are super active and I coach and manage competitive sport teams and run a small on-line sales business on the side... and work full time so I was hardly home anyway. just busy putting putting work in with my kids while they are younger. I also do a ton of **** around the house... My wife does not even cook.


----------



## Jmon

GusPolinski said:


> According to who?


good point... but I remember him saying that at the bar. But she did tell me that when I asked her about protection.


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> I understand all of this. And yes my wife seems like a stranger to me. I know I marriage ended and we have to start over if it is going to work.
> 
> Yes my daughter seems me as a doormat right now. It is not fun at all. As far as the kids they are fine. I have spent most of my time with them now. Yes they see her depressed and as up until a few weeks ago my wife just started to re-engage with her son the way she use to. So she my wife is starting to get better but her depression is really spotty. Especially after we screw.... she seems super depressed the next day.
> 
> Our marriage was pretty toxic due to all the issues we have had and was not good what-so-ever. He wanting another kid.... she resenting my kids... and be being burnt out for doing so much to try to make everyone happy and not getting anything in return from my wife... but *****iness. She actually started treating me like one of her step-kids. Now for the purpose of clarity.... my kids are super active and I coach and manage competitive sport teams and run a small on-line sales business on the side... and work full time so I was hardly home anyway. just busy putting putting work in with my kids while they are younger. I also do a ton of **** around the house... My wife does not even cook.


Jmon,

This additional information is very helpful. It points out the deep issues that you and your wife have been facing for a long time.

You are getting great advice on this thread. I just want to reiterate one main point.

No one is saying you ACTUALLY have to go through with a divorce. If you want to save your marriage, you have every right to want that (although frankly, she doesn't sound like she's been very nice to you for a long time).

*HOWEVER, in order for you to create a "new" marriage going forward, she HAS to realize the consequences of her behavior.* That means, she HAS to come to know that you are willing to throw in the towel, throw her out, and move on with your life without her. She has to know that you are not a doormat, will not allow yourself to be mistreated so badly, yet still remain there acting as if everything is ok. Because it's NOT ok.

That's why so many here suggest FILING divorce papers. Because that is the only thing that is likely to shake her up and know that you mean business. And to realize the gravity of the choices she made.

Again, no one is saying you have to actually GET divorced. But you've got to steer this train back on to the rails somehow, and being nice, forgiving her immediately, tap dancing around her low moods and depression, ISN'T going to get you there.

I wish you the very best.


----------



## cgiles

I seriously think you need to implement the 180lists. The 180 | AFFAIRCARE 

It will not help you to fix your marriage, it will only help you to find out you can be happy without her. 
Then you will be more able to decide what you need to do for protect your family.

Did you got the book ?


----------



## convert

GusPolinski said:


> #1 OMW deserves to know that her husband has been stepping out on her.
> 
> #2 The absolute best way to ensure zero contact between your WW and OM is to expose the affair to OMW.
> 
> #3 Initiating contact w/ OMW may turn out to be beneficial to you; if she already knows about the affair, she may be able to give you additional information that your WW hasn't given you. For example, you might find out that they're still in contact, or you might get some of the details that your WW hasn't been willing to share up to this point.


:iagree:

Jmon, you need to let OM's W know some how some way.

do not tell your wwife if you do this.


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## dental

This marriage has run it's course. Very bad energy for kids to grow up in. In this environment neurosisses are born. OP, so the right thing, stop being a p*ssY, and give your children a safe and peaceful environment.


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## Jmon

Welll,

I am sure you hate me at this point. But I can not keep living in this fairy tail land of yours. You need help. I am doing my best to help you here and you are taking everything I do as weakness., and running all over me like I am doormat. I lost you as soon as you started your affair with him. Our marriage is over. I know you are "or where" caught between me and him. You are sad for losing your fun escape and sad because you don't want to loose you your family. I think you guys where or planned to continue your affair.... The infidelity is addicting and it screwed up your brain chemistry. I am sure it was fun and great little adventure for you to escape your problems at home. You may feel used and feel shame and guilt all at the same time. What we are going through is hard. You are confused and right now screwed up in the head. You refuse to talk about the affair. You need to talk about it and your feelings. You are crazy to just think all of this is going away. Your rug-sweeping is not going to work. I promise you what will happen if you continue on this path.... number one... you will be getting a divorce. Number 2... you will never get over your depression and you will hurt the ones you love the most in time and it will be unintentional. Number 3... you will not be able to reconcile your problems and all of these issues you have will re-surface in time and will help destroy your future relationships due to you running from yourself and personal problems. What you did was not nice it was terrible and there is no excuse for it. And until you can admit that to yourself and get off your pity party high horse you will never change. Now telling Liz..... I really want to. It is not fair to her. she needs to know that her husband is a cheater and a lier and he disregarded everything she has ever done for him in his life when he ****s other women. If you cherish this man... you are a fool. If you are heart broken because he rejected you..... you are a fool. If you wanted to be with him because you knew we where over and you thought you could get him away form his wife..... You are a fool. You don't think he would do the same thing to you??? If you think that you are a fool. Now I don't know if this is all true but I think it is and I have no other choice but to believe it due to your silence and your actions. And your continued conversations with him after your confession. I have no idea what he was filling your head up with, and how long the affair actually was. And I don't care. You need to start being honest with yourself and start convincing me and give me some reasons why I should believe you about anything. Anyway enough of that. 

Now as of right now I am not going to contact him or liz... and trust me it is because of your protection. I do not want to do that you. And I do somewhat do not want to be responsible for what happens in their life. I think he will continue to cheat on her and she will eventually find out. She is naive like me, but at some point she will realize the truth. But if you want to talk to him... go ahead... if you want to meet up with him... go ahead. I don't care anymore. I already lost you. If your trolling his wife's facebook page so you can see pictures of him... you are not over him and need help. That help is going to come from either you facing your problems or a short term fix by meeting up with him. Either way you need to do something. Now I know you will continue to blame this one me and keep telling yourself that I am source of you problems. You are wrong. Now................. I do believe my actions at times at home has caused you to loose hope and have made you sad... and add to your issues.... that is why you felt entitled to your affair. Now I have no problem admitting to any of that. I was a jerk and have been on several occasions and yes I am going to change and face my problems... I can not and will not continue on my self-destructive path. I am done with it all of it. You say you are trying and simply being at home is proof of that, and you feel like you want to go out every night and drink... Go ahead..... if that is what you want. Continue on your self destructive path. Keep running away from your problems. Maybe you will meet some nice guy that can help patch your depression for now. Go ahead.....If that is what you want... set me free!!!!!!! I am not afraid to let you go. I don't want to but I can't keep doing this. I DO NOT WANT OUR MARRIAGE UNLESS BOTH OF US CHANGE AND GET BACK TO THE PEOPLE WE USE TO BE!!!!!!!!!! 

Now I know you are going to read all of this with a defensive attitude and say... he is crazy.... bla bla bla.... he does not know what he wants... bla bla bla.... he will never forgive me.... bla bla bla... he will never change.... bla bla bla.. bla.... he is just going to talk to his daughter... bla bla bla bla bla... he hates me.. bla bla bla... I hate my life I am so sick of this... bla bla bla..... he is never going to believe anything I say again... bla bla bla.... this is point-less.... bla bla bla.... he is stalking me.... bla bla bla..... it is like a broken record. YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I have not proven to you by now That I am willing to change for the better and that I love you and want to be with you, you have problems... I have not idea what is going through your head. But you actions and what you say shows me you are in denial, you are scared, you don't know what to and most of all you are super confused about what happened and are not sure how to deal with it, and your self esteem is crushed. You feel hopeless, you have a hard time appreciating what you have, you stuck in a work of circular thought and feel there is no way out. 


I am ****ing here for you,,,,, I am putting myself and my own pain and anger aside to try to help you get out of your depression so you can start dealing with life in a constructive manner. I love you and am willing to do anything for you. That is what love is. If you can't see that you are blind and not living in reality. If you love me... you need to start to change. You need to get help. I keep telling you that we have a very good chance at a great future, but things need to change... we both need to. I am changing... you are not. I am going to get help with open arms and am not afraid to admit my faults and deal with them!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to start. I promise everything I say to you even about the baby.... And when I say I think you deserve it... I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made a mistake... forgive yourself..... I forgive you,,,, but I can't re-build with you unless you start working on us and that starts with you working on yourself. And things are not going to fix themselves. This whole thing......... us our past your affair all needs to be broken wide open and EVERYTHING needs to be out in the open.... and talked about. I will not have it any other way. I need complete transparency. It is not just for me it is for you as well. And that is the only path to a bright future for us. I want to fix this..... but I can't do it by myself. I want to be with you......... If you cant see that...... please for the love of god get some help! I will support you and go with you and do anything to help you. But I can't do anything unless you make the personal decision to start!!!


I LOVE YOU MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL PROVE IT TO YOU WHEN WE GET OVER THIS BS AND YOU GET INTO YOUR RIGHT MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUST ME I AM WORTH THE EFFORT! SORRY FOR THE PAST....... BUT THE PAST IS DONE AND OVER...... OUR PAST MARRIAGE IS OVER..... NOW WE START AGAIN BY BEING BETTER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ****ING LOVE YOU PLEASE SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!


HERE IS THE EMAIL I SENT HER THIS MORNING.... Opinions?????/


----------



## thummper

Hate to say it because I don't like to counsel divorce, but your wife is a total mess. She doesn't deserve you or her family. I'm afraid she'll always be the way you've described. Is divorce an option for you? Are you only staying because you can't afford to split up? I'm wondering that if you filed, her attitude would suddenly change. As long as she can string you along, there's no reason for her to make any changes. Is this other guy married? Have you contacted his wife?


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## thummper

Oh, I didn't see your e-mail to your wife before I made that last post. After reading it, I'm guessing THAT'S going to stir things up. She'll either buckle down and work on your marriage, or she'll want to bail. Either way, things won't be the same for you two. Good luck.


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## Jmon

thummper said:


> Hate to say it because I don't like to counsel divorce, but your wife is a total mess. She doesn't deserve you or her family. I'm afraid she'll always be the way you've described. Is divorce an option for you? Are you only staying because you can't afford to split up? I'm wondering that if you filed, her attitude would suddenly change. As long as she can string you along, there's no reason for her to make any changes. Is this other guy married? Have you contacted his wife?


Yes he is married.... No I am not afraid to get a divorce. I don't want to. I am trying to give her a chance to change and hope we can have a good future. After all of this.. I know she still loves me and I feel the same way. Yes it will be harder financially but I can deal with it. I can't let go unless I know she is for sure done and not willing to change. I owe that to my kids. and their future.


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## Chaparral

Omg. Well you didn't understand any of the experienced advise given to you.


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## tom67

Jmon said:


> Yes he is married.... No I am not afraid to get a divorce. I don't want to. I am trying to give her a chance to change and hope we can have a good future. After all of this.. I know she still loves me and I feel the same way. Yes it will be harder financially but I can deal with it. I can't let go unless I know she is for sure done and not willing to change. I owe that to my kids. and their future.


Without consequences she will not change.
It is that simple.


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## bfree

Jmon, you know why your wife is so depressed the day after you and she have sex? Think about it for a minute. She gets depressed because in her mind she is betraying her lover and she feels depressed because she is forced to do something intimate with you...someone she doesn't even like let alone love. It probably feels very much like she is submitting to forced rape or that she is prostituting herself.


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## Jmon

bfree said:


> Jmon, you know why your wife is so depressed the day after you and she have sex? Think about it for a minute. She gets depressed because in her mind she is betraying her lover and she feels depressed because she is forced to do something intimate with you...someone she doesn't even like let alone love. It probably feels very much like she is submitting to forced rape or that she is prostituting herself.


I don't believe that at all. I think she really enjoyed the intimacy.
She said she is not in love with him at all. I just think she is f-ed up in the head right now.


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## convert

Jmon, the only thing i did right before I came here was exposure.
I did it far and wide.
I killed the affair in its track (it works most of the time).
you wife is still pining for the OM, she is in the FOG.

you have exposed to what? two people---- your sister and your daughter? this is not enough.

now, the way your wife sounds, she will be angry with anymore exposure --this is normal


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## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> I understand all of this. And yes my wife seems like a stranger to me. I know I marriage ended and we have to start over if it is going to work.
> 
> Yes my daughter seems me as a doormat right now. It is not fun at all. As far as the kids they are fine. I have spent most of my time with them now. Yes they see her depressed and as up until a few weeks ago my wife just started to re-engage with her son the way she use to. So she my wife is starting to get better but her depression is really spotty. Especially after we screw.... she seems super depressed the next day.
> 
> Our marriage was pretty toxic due to all the issues we have had and was not good what-so-ever. He wanting another kid.... she resenting my kids... and be being burnt out for doing so much to try to make everyone happy and not getting anything in return from my wife... but *****iness. She actually started treating me like one of her step-kids. Now for the purpose of clarity.... my kids are super active and I coach and manage competitive sport teams and run a small on-line sales business on the side... and work full time so I was hardly home anyway. just busy putting putting work in with my kids while they are younger. I also do a ton of **** around the house... My wife does not even cook.


Does your wife work at a job outside the home?

It sounds like there has been little to no time for the two of you to spend time together, just the two of you with the children. Is this correct? About how many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you?


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## EleGirl

Many here are suggesting filing divorce papers as a way to make a statement.

Let's not forget that it costs thousands to file for divorce unless a person has either a free attorney or knows how to do it on their own. 

With 2 hours, a business, a child and other such things, this is not a DIY divorce.

Simply letting her know that it's obvious that the marriage is in crisis and that they both either work together to fix it or he will file for divorce should be enough of a heads up.


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## Jmon

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife work at a job outside the home?
> 
> It sounds like there has been little to no time for the two of you to spend time together, just the two of you with the children. Is this correct? About how many hours a week do the two of you spend together, just the two of you?


yes in past we have not really spent much quality time together, but since i have dropped all of my coaching obligations and slowed on-line business... we have spent a ton of time together and even took a weekend trip a couple of weekends ago. We had a great time. We put our differences aside and just enjoyed each other. It reminded us of how we use to be. It was refreshing.


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## Jmon

EleGirl said:


> Many here are suggesting filing divorce papers as a way to make a statement.
> 
> Let's not forget that it costs thousands to file for divorce unless a person has either a free attorney or knows how to do it on their own.
> 
> With 2 hours, a business, a child and other such things, this is not a DIY divorce.
> 
> Simply letting her know that it's obvious that the marriage is in crisis and that they both either work together to fix it or he will file for divorce should be enough of a heads up.


thanks I feel the same way


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## EleGirl

Your email is raw and good.

it could be picked apart, such as you use the word "you" way too much. That makes the reader defensive. But so what. You spoke your heart. That's what is important here. I do hope that she 'hears' what you are saying. 

The way your wife is acting right now is completely normal for someone just out of an affair (sadly). It usually takes a while for the brain chemistry to calm down and for a person to exit the affair fog and return to reality. I have little doubt that she will be kicking herself for what she's done once she comes down to earth.

You sound like a good man and a loving husband. She's lucky to have a man like you in her life.

Beside her being transparent, you need to tell her exactly what you need from her to reconcile. The book I suggested "Surviving an Affair" will give you that plan. I really do hope that you get it. It's a quick read.

To rebuild your marriage, and affair proof it as much as possible in the future, I suggest that you and your wife work through the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters".

Just as you wrote that email to her, your list of things you need from her and what the two of you need to do to reconcile should be in written form as it's way too easy to forget and gloss over anything spoken.


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## ArmyofJuan

JMON, you are your own worse enemy.

In Texas it cost about $250 to file for a petition for a Divorce, to me that's a small price to pay to show you are serious. You have been enabling her affair and not holding her accountable so she has no motivation to change. She is not afraid of losing you so not going to do what it takes to save the marriage.

Not telling the OM wife is a HUGE mistake, if she found out first would you want her to tell you or would you rather remain in the dark? If someone I knew found out my W was cheating and didn't tell me I'd be PISSED.

You need to stop giving your wife all the power, she screwed you over, why are you letting her continue to do so? She needs to earn her way back into the marriage since she just null and voided it with her actions. File for a D and during the cool down period (61 days here) she needs to convince you she is worth staying with or else its over. Tough love is the only way you are going to get anywhere with her. 

Or you can keep doing what you are doing now and start another thread when you get to D-Day 2 like so many other have done in the past.


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## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> yes in past we have not really spent much quality time together, but since i have dropped all of my coaching obligations and slowed on-line business... we have spent a ton of time together and even took a weekend trip a couple of weekends ago. We had a great time. We put our differences aside and just enjoyed each other. It reminded us of how we use to be. It was refreshing.


This is a move in the right direction for sure.

A lot of couples get so caught up in life.. work, raising children, and ton of other things. They stop doing things together. The natural outcome of this is that they lose their connection, the bond.

As a rule of thumb, a couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together, just the two of them, doing things that they enjoy. It can be as simple as going for walks and talking or full out dates. But time is needed. Biologically it's needed to maintain the brain chemistry creates the bond and the feeling we call romantic love.

When a marriage is broken, as is yours, more time is needed. I've read up to 32 hours for a few weeks.


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## Jmon

EleGirl said:


> This is a move in the right direction for sure.
> 
> A lot of couples get so caught up in life.. work, raising children, and ton of other things. They stop doing things together. The natural outcome of this is that they lose their connection, the bond.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, a couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together, just the two of them, doing things that they enjoy. It can be as simple as going for walks and talking or full out dates. But time is needed. Biologically it's needed to maintain the brain chemistry creates the bond and the feeling we call romantic love.
> 
> When a marriage is broken, as is yours, more time is needed. I've read up to 32 hours for a few weeks.


thanks!! I am trying to re-connect with her and the connection has been growing but the problems still need to be dealt with.


----------



## LongWalk

In your email you have committed to not exposing to OM wife. You cannot go back on it now without looking wishy washy.

Maybe your wife needs to see a doctor.


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## EleGirl

LongWalk said:


> In your email you have committed to not exposing to OM wife. You cannot go back on it now without looking wishy washy.
> 
> Maybe your wife needs to see a doctor.





> Now *as of right now *I am not going to contact him or liz... and trust me it is because of your protection.


The words he used leaves it open.


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## bfree

EleGirl said:


> The words he used leaves it open.


My concern is that she will feel emboldened and empowered since the OM is "safe." I also think she is going to lose even more respect for him since the OM looks like he's won.


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> I don't believe that at all. I think she really enjoyed the intimacy.
> She said she is not in love with him at all. I just think she is f-ed up in the head right now.


Yes, she enjoyed it so much it depressed her? She "said" she is not in love with him. So who is she in love with? You? She's got a funny way of showing it huh? Of course she's f-ed up in the head! That's what affairs do! She's still in contact with him. He's still in her head even if he's not in her pants at the moment. So long as that continues you have no shot at keeping this marriage from divorce. You need to show her you mean business. You have to show the OM you mean business. You need to end the affair before you can save your marriage. The only way to do that is to expose this to the OM's wife and anyone else that might have influence over your wife. We've seen betrayed spouses ignore this advice before and allow thoughts of the lover to fester inside the head of the cheating spouse. In ALL cases...ALL CASES...the marriages ended in divorce. Yet you somehow think yours is different than all the thousands of others? Tell me why you think that?

And btw, stop believing her words. I agree that she's all f-ed up in the head. So why do you believe that she knows what the hell she is talking about?


----------



## alte Dame

bfree said:


> Yes, she enjoyed it so much it depressed her? She "said" she is not in love with him. So who is she in love with? You? She's got a funny way of showing it huh? Of course she's f-ed up in the head! That's what affairs do! She's still in contact with him. He's still in her head even if he's not in her pants at the moment. So long as that continues you have no shot at keeping this marriage from divorce. You need to show her you mean business. You have to show the OM you mean business. You need to end the affair before you can save your marriage. The only way to do that is to expose this to the OM's wife and anyone else that might have influence over your wife. We've seen betrayed spouses ignore this advice before and allow thoughts of the lover to fester inside the head of the cheating spouse. In ALL cases...ALL CASES...the marriages ended in divorce. Yet you somehow think yours is different than all the thousands of others? Tell me why you think that?
> 
> And btw, stop believing her words. I agree that she's all f-ed up in the head. So why do you believe that she knows what the hell she is talking about?


^^^ This


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Jmon said:


> I don't believe that at all. I think she really enjoyed the intimacy.
> She said she is not in love with him at all. I just think she is f-ed up in the head right now.


She also told you that she would always remain faithful and never cheat on you too, right? C'mon...do you seriously think you can trust anything your wife told you without corroboration??? If I was in your shoes, if my wife told me the sky was blue today I would check with 2 or 3 sources to verify that she wasn't lying.


----------



## emyeele

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.



You have to tell his wife because you are already involved in the matter. Not voluntarily, but involuntary. I read a great book about dealing with affairs. I think you should look into this as well. (I PMed you as well) : Love Must Be Tough by James C. Dobson

Last thing you want to do is to keep this affair hidden. "Stolen water is sweet; food eaten in secret is delicious!"
" Proverbs 9:17


----------



## emyeele

Plan 9 from OS said:


> She also told you that she would always remain faithful and never cheat on you too, right? C'mon...do you seriously think you can trust anything your wife told you without corroboration??? If I was in your shoes, if my wife told me the sky was blue today I would check with 2 or 3 sources to verify that she wasn't lying.



A women who's invested so much into a marriage of 10 years don't have affairs just to HAVE them. They're not wired like men are. You have to get to the root of the problem and she obviously mentioned one of the issues when she told her husband she "felt UNLOVED", as Jmon stated in the initial post.

Women are much more delicate when it comes to emotions, and you have to constantly be aware of your wife's emotional state. It is a life-long process. 1 Peter 3:7: says "Husbands Live with Your Wives According to Knowledge" -- That means its in an ongoing investment to continuously study your wife.


Also, don't be so quick to take any selfish or self-absorbing advice you get in here. You will always want to fight for you family, but you have to fight smart.


----------



## emyeele

Jmon said:


> Yes we have ****ed several times. She is not talking but told her if.she does.not start confronting her problems it is Over.....she is sleeping on the couch. Lol...said I was.insulting her. Because.i.told.her.she.needs to grow up gave her two hard kisses on the lips and now I am in bed. told.her.I was about done and she was.going to loose me unless she.grows up.


I agree with her having to show you some respect, but you shouldn't demand it. Plus, its best to lead by example by showing her respect. 

You only reap what you sow.


----------



## emyeele

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife know that you almost cheated on her at some point?
> 
> I agree with you, people are entitled to a second chance.
> 
> People are giving you a lot of info here. But they also have great imaginations and are projecting onto your situation from the hundreds of affairs they have read about here on TAM and in their own lives.
> 
> Take the info and suggestions given and apply them to your life as you see fit. What does not make sense now, may make sense later.
> 
> One thing that I think will give you a strong plan of action is the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley. It fits along the line that you are thinking and have one thus far. I highly suggest you read the book. You wife would benefit from reading it as well.


I really agree with this post. I read this book as well. It is a very great book. It will also help your wife understand what she is going through if she chooses to read it. It will also inform you as well as how to deal with this entire situation. Your wife is depressed simply because what she did is wrong and goes against her very soul. Affairs aren't innocent and without cost. There are always consequences when we choose to go against our God given conscience. For women, its even worse because they are much more emotional. I suggest you be very sensitive to your wife, but am not asking you to be a doormat.

You are better off reading the books and resources we have suggested to you then to go with anything anyone has told you on this forum. Then you can make the appropriate decisions based on the circumstances at hand, because after all, non of us know the entire story. 

You and your family will win this brother. You're in my prayers.


----------



## carmen ohio

Jmon said:


> Welll,
> 
> I am sure you hate me at this point. But I can not keep living in this fairy tail land of yours. You need help. I am doing my best to help you here and you are taking everything I do as weakness., and running all over me like I am doormat. I lost you as soon as you started your affair with him. Our marriage is over. I know you are "or where" caught between me and him. You are sad for losing your fun escape and sad because you don't want to loose you your family. I think you guys where or planned to continue your affair.... The infidelity is addicting and it screwed up your brain chemistry. I am sure it was fun and great little adventure for you to escape your problems at home. You may feel used and feel shame and guilt all at the same time. What we are going through is hard. You are confused and right now screwed up in the head. You refuse to talk about the affair. You need to talk about it and your feelings. You are crazy to just think all of this is going away. Your rug-sweeping is not going to work. I promise you what will happen if you continue on this path.... number one... you will be getting a divorce. Number 2... you will never get over your depression and you will hurt the ones you love the most in time and it will be unintentional. Number 3... you will not be able to reconcile your problems and all of these issues you have will re-surface in time and will help destroy your future relationships due to you running from yourself and personal problems. What you did was not nice it was terrible and there is no excuse for it. And until you can admit that to yourself and get off your pity party high horse you will never change. Now telling Liz..... I really want to. It is not fair to her. she needs to know that her husband is a cheater and a lier and he disregarded everything she has ever done for him in his life when he ****s other women. If you cherish this man... you are a fool. If you are heart broken because he rejected you..... you are a fool. If you wanted to be with him because you knew we where over and you thought you could get him away form his wife..... You are a fool. You don't think he would do the same thing to you??? If you think that you are a fool. Now I don't know if this is all true but I think it is and I have no other choice but to believe it due to your silence and your actions. And your continued conversations with him after your confession. I have no idea what he was filling your head up with, and how long the affair actually was. And I don't care. You need to start being honest with yourself and start convincing me and give me some reasons why I should believe you about anything. Anyway enough of that.
> 
> Now as of right now I am not going to contact him or liz... and trust me it is because of your protection. I do not want to do that you. And I do somewhat do not want to be responsible for what happens in their life. I think he will continue to cheat on her and she will eventually find out. She is naive like me, but at some point she will realize the truth. But if you want to talk to him... go ahead... if you want to meet up with him... go ahead. I don't care anymore. I already lost you. If your trolling his wife's facebook page so you can see pictures of him... you are not over him and need help. That help is going to come from either you facing your problems or a short term fix by meeting up with him. Either way you need to do something. Now I know you will continue to blame this one me and keep telling yourself that I am source of you problems. You are wrong. Now................. I do believe my actions at times at home has caused you to loose hope and have made you sad... and add to your issues.... that is why you felt entitled to your affair. Now I have no problem admitting to any of that. I was a jerk and have been on several occasions and yes I am going to change and face my problems... I can not and will not continue on my self-destructive path. I am done with it all of it. You say you are trying and simply being at home is proof of that, and you feel like you want to go out every night and drink... Go ahead..... if that is what you want. Continue on your self destructive path. Keep running away from your problems. Maybe you will meet some nice guy that can help patch your depression for now. Go ahead.....If that is what you want... set me free!!!!!!! I am not afraid to let you go. I don't want to but I can't keep doing this. I DO NOT WANT OUR MARRIAGE UNLESS BOTH OF US CHANGE AND GET BACK TO THE PEOPLE WE USE TO BE!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Now I know you are going to read all of this with a defensive attitude and say... he is crazy.... bla bla bla.... he does not know what he wants... bla bla bla.... he will never forgive me.... bla bla bla... he will never change.... bla bla bla.. bla.... he is just going to talk to his daughter... bla bla bla bla bla... he hates me.. bla bla bla... I hate my life I am so sick of this... bla bla bla..... he is never going to believe anything I say again... bla bla bla.... this is point-less.... bla bla bla.... he is stalking me.... bla bla bla..... it is like a broken record. YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I have not proven to you by now That I am willing to change for the better and that I love you and want to be with you, you have problems... I have not idea what is going through your head. But you actions and what you say shows me you are in denial, you are scared, you don't know what to and most of all you are super confused about what happened and are not sure how to deal with it, and your self esteem is crushed. You feel hopeless, you have a hard time appreciating what you have, you stuck in a work of circular thought and feel there is no way out.
> 
> 
> I am ****ing here for you,,,,, I am putting myself and my own pain and anger aside to try to help you get out of your depression so you can start dealing with life in a constructive manner. I love you and am willing to do anything for you. That is what love is. If you can't see that you are blind and not living in reality. If you love me... you need to start to change. You need to get help. I keep telling you that we have a very good chance at a great future, but things need to change... we both need to. I am changing... you are not. I am going to get help with open arms and am not afraid to admit my faults and deal with them!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to start. I promise everything I say to you even about the baby.... And when I say I think you deserve it... I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made a mistake... forgive yourself..... I forgive you,,,, but I can't re-build with you unless you start working on us and that starts with you working on yourself. And things are not going to fix themselves. This whole thing......... us our past your affair all needs to be broken wide open and EVERYTHING needs to be out in the open.... and talked about. I will not have it any other way. I need complete transparency. It is not just for me it is for you as well. And that is the only path to a bright future for us. I want to fix this..... but I can't do it by myself. I want to be with you......... If you cant see that...... please for the love of god get some help! I will support you and go with you and do anything to help you. But I can't do anything unless you make the personal decision to start!!!
> 
> 
> I LOVE YOU MORE THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL PROVE IT TO YOU WHEN WE GET OVER THIS BS AND YOU GET INTO YOUR RIGHT MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUST ME I AM WORTH THE EFFORT! SORRY FOR THE PAST....... BUT THE PAST IS DONE AND OVER...... OUR PAST MARRIAGE IS OVER..... NOW WE START AGAIN BY BEING BETTER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ****ING LOVE YOU PLEASE SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!
> 
> 
> HERE IS THE EMAIL I SENT HER THIS MORNING.... Opinions?????/


Dear Jmon,

Although your intention is good and you are beginning to see the light, this letter is terrible for quite a few reasons. Please do not send it.

For one thing, it is way to long. You need to be succint in order for her to understand your basic message, which should be: start being open and honest with me or our marriage is over.

For another, the tone starts out angry and snide and ends up emotional and pleading. Neither of these is appropriate for helping her to understand and accept your basic message (as stated above). Rather, the tone throughout should be one of clarity and resolve. You want her to perceive you as someone who knows what he wants and who will do whatever needs to be done to get it.

A third problem, as Elegirl noted, is that you don't tell her what you want her to do. For example, you don't ever say that she needs to end her affair. In fact, you invite her to continue it. Nor do you demand honesty from her, or transparency. You tell her that she needs to "get help" but you don't say what kind of help she needs to get. Basically, you give her no road map for how to save her marriage.

But the worst thing about the letter is that it is a letter. The fact that you don't have the courage to say these things to her face but instead need to send it to her in writing so that she can read it in private indicates (and she will interpret it as meaning) that you are a total coward when it comes to confronting her for her bad behavior. Of course, that is the message you have been sending all along so this won't surprise her. It will simply reinforce her perception of you as a weak man whom she can ignore and control. If she is smart, she will tell you how wonderful your letter was and will say some other nice things to throw you off track and continue to stonewall you and, in all likelihood, you will accept this -- for now.

But you will not put up with her behaving like this forever. Eventually, you will become fed up with her and will tell her to her face that you intend to end your marriage. The question is, will you do this while there is still some chance of her changing for the better, or will you wait until the two of you have lost all respect for each other and no longer want to be together?

That's the most important decision you need to make and, the longer you put it off, the less likely that your marriage will survive.


----------



## snap

From the way you describe things, it looks like she's not depressed but pissed at you and gives you some silent treatment.


----------



## Hardtohandle

bandit.45 said:


> Amazing how these cheaters always play the depression card.
> 
> She's not depressed, she's an actress.
> 
> end it.


After reading this whole thread, I think this pretty much sums it all up..

I am not saying end the relationship, but end this cycle of bullsh!t your wife is trying to perpetrate on you.. 

As carmen said you need to give your wife some real direction.. 

Saying you want to "fix this" just isn't enough.. 

I need you to tell me everything. I need for you to stop all communication. I need you to go to counseling.. I need you to be transparent in these ways.. Etc... 

I'm very sorry but I don't think she was too depressed when she was svcking his d!ck.. 

Trust me being weak isn't gonna help.. Because I was and it didn't help me.. 

Like you were in the email that is how you sort of need to be.. You basically need to proverbially smack her down with one hand and then help her up with the other.. 

She needs to know either she is 1000 percent into fixing this or she is out the door.. 

You DEFINITELY need to out this other man to his wife..


----------



## just got it 55

Jmon said:


> I don't believe that at all. I think she really enjoyed the intimacy.
> She said she is not in love with him at all. I just think she is f-ed up in the head right now.


Well that explains it then right ?

Bfree your thought was mine as well She felt she betrayed her OM so sad for her

Wake up bud

55


----------



## ConanHub

emyeele said:


> I agree with her having to show you some respect, but you shouldn't demand it. Plus, its best to lead by example by showing her respect.
> 
> You only reap what you sow.


She gets caught banging another dude and deserves respect how? By your reasoning, since she sowed backstabbing betrayal into her husband, that is what she should reap.

Twisted scriptures.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ascension

Op, by sending an email/ instead of saying these things to your WW face, you are communicating in an indirect manner. This is not what men do. Men communicate directly. Unless you stop acting like a spineless doormat, not only will you lose your family, you will be treated this way by every woman in your future life. See, women are attracted to men. Men who are masculine and men who can lead them. They absolutely despise nice guys who cannot or will not hold them accountable for their actions. If I was your wife, Id cheat on you too, and ive never cheated on anyone in my life.

For God sakes, man up bro. Grow some balls and start acting like a man. This is the one and only way you have any chance of saving your marriage. You have received some excellent advice by people who have dealt with this in their own lives, and have experienced every possible outcome, yet you refuse to follow their advice.

This is what you need to do (besides starting to act like a man):

1. Expose this affair to POSOMs wife, your family and your wife's family - this is absolutely crucial and cannot be substituted or skipped. It ends the affair, and it begins to deal real consequences to your cheating wife.

2. SIT YOUR WIFE DOWN, LOOK HER IN THE EYE, and tell her in a steady, calm manner that her behavior is unacceptable, that she killed your marriage because of her selfish actions and she now has some hard choices to make.

a. sign the divorce papers (as you hand her the paperwork)

or

b. decide on building a new marriage, where she will do all the heavy lifting and face the consequences for her selfish actions. 

b. includes: STD testing, DNA testing your son(not for results but for her to understand she lost your trust), polygraph about other encounters and about this affair - (IT WAS NOT JUST ONE TIME DEAL), Her writing the OM a NC letter, and mailing it only after you approve it, her providing access and passwords to all her social network accounts, phones etc etc, and finally her showing some real remorse and taking responsibility for destroying your marriage. 

Important to mention, if she chooses the b option, let her understand that this not guarantee you can build a new marriage. It just means she is giving it a chance. Some men cannot get over this ultimate betrayal of their trust, no matter what WS does.

SO here is your homework, start reading "No more mr,. nice guy" and begin the process of reclaiming your manhood. Here is her homework, choose a or b.

This is your only way.


----------



## Jmon

Ok I agree with some of everything a bit here. I sent her affair partner a email... here it is.... I think it is enough to scare him off.


Hi there,


I know strange. Just to let you know I have all of your information and Liz's as well. I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife. Now, Kristen is ****ed up in the head right now. Women get much more emotionally involved in their affairs than men do. *I know you are paranoid and having the thought of me exposing this whole thing is in the back of your mind. It has taken all of my self control to not blow this thing wide open. But I also do not want to inflict the pain I am going through on anyone else. The thought and reality of losing your family is not fun. It hurts... I know you do not want that. But your wife should know how big of a piece of **** you are for disregarding everything she has ever done for you and giving her life to you. Enough said. Now Kristen says she wants a second chance and wants to be with me and wants to work out our problems and our marriage "so she says" she is still living with me so I guess I have to believe her or else she would be gone by now. I don't know if we will be successful, but we are trying. Now the reason I reached out you is because I don't want you talking to her ever again. Regardless of what happens between Kristen and I , you need to work on your marriage and your family. You obviously don't have that much respect for your wife in the first place, but she loves you and is the mother of you children, you should have no reason what-so-ever to be talking to Kristen. All of us **** up and should use our mistakes as lessons to guide us forward in life. I suggest you do the same. Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain. I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much. *And it really does make a difference to me as long as it is over. I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.*



Thanks!*


What do you all think.....I want to spare my wife any further imbareisment if I can. Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect. 


.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> HERE IS THE EMAIL I SENT HER THIS MORNING.... Opinions?????/


As some has said it could have been better in some areas. However, you gave your raw emotions and thoughts and that is very good! Additionally, she knows what you are thinking and feeling without a doubt.

You showed that you do understand some of your situations and reprinted below is some that stand out:



> I am doing my best to help you here and you are taking everything I do as weakness., and running all over me like I am doormat.
> 
> I DO NOT WANT OUR MARRIAGE UNLESS BOTH OF US CHANGE AND GET BACK TO THE PEOPLE WE USE TO BE!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> If you love me... you need to start to change. You need to get help
> 
> I can't re-build with you unless you start working on us and that starts with you working on yourself. And things are not going to fix themselves


Jmon, as I have said, your email letter did a VERY GOOD job of expressing your feelings and thinking.

The bottom line for you now is ACTIONS. Her ACTIONS right now should be your determining factor on what you are going to do. She must be 100% dedicated to that change that you talked about and the actions should show you a real and complete turn-around for a very long time about her issues and listed below are some of the important issues:


Your wife trolls bars
Has sex with other man
Gets drunk
She lies
RESENTS YOUR CHILDREN
YOUR WIFE HAS SHOWN YOU NO RESPECT OR LOVE

Her ACTIONS for real change should be your guiding criteria for what you are going to do. If you fail to set these criteria then you will become an even larger door mat.


*TALK IS CHEAP AND ACTIONS TELL THE REAL STORY!!*


----------



## Ascension

Jmon said:


> Ok I agree with some of everything a bit here. I sent her affair partner a email... here it is.... I think it is enough to scare him off.
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I know strange. Just to let you know I have all of your information and Liz's as well. I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife. Now, Kristen is ****ed up in the head right now. Women get much more emotionally involved in their affairs than men do. *I know you are paranoid and having the thought of me exposing this whole thing is in the back of your mind. It has taken all of my self control to not blow this thing wide open. But I also do not want to inflict the pain I am going through on anyone else. The thought and reality of losing your family is not fun. It hurts... I know you do not want that. But your wife should know how big of a piece of **** you are for disregarding everything she has ever done for you and giving her life to you. Enough said. Now Kristen says she wants a second chance and wants to be with me and wants to work out our problems and our marriage "so she says" she is still living with me so I guess I have to believe her or else she would be gone by now. I don't know if we will be successful, but we are trying. Now the reason I reached out you is because I don't want you talking to her ever again. Regardless of what happens between Kristen and I , you need to work on your marriage and your family. You obviously don't have that much respect for your wife in the first place, but she loves you and is the mother of you children, you should have no reason what-so-ever to be talking to Kristen. All of us **** up and should use our mistakes as lessons to guide us forward in life. I suggest you do the same. Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain. I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much. *And it really does make a difference to me as long as it is over. I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!*
> 
> 
> What do you all think.....I want to spare my wife any further imbareisment if I can. Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect.
> 
> 
> .


I think its great. you protect your cheating wife from taking any responsibility for her actions, instead allowing her to deal with consequences, and also remind everyone that you are to weak to communicate in person. I think this has success written all over it.


----------



## bandit.45

> I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.





Pfffffffffttttttthhhhh HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha!!!!:rofl:

You actually sent him that? :rofl:

Are you offering to pay for his counseling too? 

:rofl:


----------



## Jmon

Man......this is a tough croud!!!! Thanks to all of you....keep it coming!


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Ok I agree with some of everything a bit here. I sent her affair partner a email... here it is.... I think it is enough to scare him off.
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I know strange. Just to let you know I have all of your information and Liz's as well. I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife. Now, Kristen is ****ed up in the head right now. Women get much more emotionally involved in their affairs than men do. *I know you are paranoid and having the thought of me exposing this whole thing is in the back of your mind. It has taken all of my self control to not blow this thing wide open. But I also do not want to inflict the pain I am going through on anyone else. The thought and reality of losing your family is not fun. It hurts... I know you do not want that. But your wife should know how big of a piece of **** you are for disregarding everything she has ever done for you and giving her life to you. Enough said. Now Kristen says she wants a second chance and wants to be with me and wants to work out our problems and our marriage "so she says" she is still living with me so I guess I have to believe her or else she would be gone by now. I don't know if we will be successful, but we are trying. Now the reason I reached out you is because I don't want you talking to her ever again. Regardless of what happens between Kristen and I , you need to work on your marriage and your family. You obviously don't have that much respect for your wife in the first place, but she loves you and is the mother of you children, you should have no reason what-so-ever to be talking to Kristen. All of us **** up and should use our mistakes as lessons to guide us forward in life. I suggest you do the same. Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain. I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much. *And it really does make a difference to me as long as it is over. I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!*
> 
> 
> What do you all think.....I want to spare my wife any further imbareisment if I can. Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect.
> 
> 
> .


Are you f#cking kidding me?

EXPOSE. THE. AFFAIR. TO. HIS. WIFE.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Jmon said:


> Man......this is a tough croud!!!! Thanks to all of you....keep it coming!


What's wrong with you? Do you feed on humiliation and emasculation? It almost sounds like a fetish for you. Unless...you are something else...


----------



## Jmon

His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


I'll say it again... you poor, naive fool.

Best of luck to you.














P.S. They're still f*cking.


----------



## Ascension

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


It isn't hard to understand. Its just the wrong decision because it protects your wife from facing consequences of her actions. Without those, you have ZERO chance at true reconciliation. I know we aren't supposed to question other poster identities, but Im starting to smell a troll, unless you really are this clueless. If you aren't a troll, may god have mercy on your soul.


----------



## bandit.45

......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! ho ho ho ho !!!...:rofl:

Ughhhhh..... phewwwwww! 


I almost coughed up my spleen....


----------



## anchorwatch

Don't send it!

Both your letters are weak. (Ele and Carmen told you about the first) 

You just told him you're letting him off the hook, if he honors your request. How honourable do you think he is? He put his member in your wife. Do you really see him shaking in his boots? You don't think he (and maybe your W) have already concocted some mitigating story, in case you might have told? Pathetic. 

You're better off not sending that message and leaving him guessing than sending it and looking like you're negotiating him not efing your W again.

Jmon, You're still trying to outsmart all the human relationship experts and those who have walked these paths before you. You're still trying to manipulate the outcome. You still want to negotiate your marriage by including everyone else's terms. You need to look at why you want a marriage that way. Stop trying to save everybody else, and start trying to save yourself. Don't be the White Knight, it's killing you.

Start reading some of the books about affairs and marriage, recommended to you. This one was twice, https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf 

Best


----------



## bandit.45

Jmon I didn't see this anywhere but...how old are you? 

How old is your wife?


----------



## Jmon

And no.....I don't feed off of humiliating events....I am processing all of your opinions....every person is different and the more opinions I have....the better I will be able to control my actions to-ward my situation....yes my wife treated me like ****....yes she threw me and our marriage under the bus.......yes she enjoyed some other man's penis.....yes she acted out if selfishness and gave into the lust that lies in all of us.... our marriage was ****y....she has problems......she needs help and needs to grow up....I am trying to give her that opportunity because I am fighting for something that is more than important than her selfishness and that is my family my children's inocent lives. My home my life.....my relationship with her friends her family....I am very close to them and am attached to my nieces and nephews...my wife and I are extremely interconnected in Web of people and we are all clis witch includes her family my family my friends her frinds. I was friends with my wife for 5 years before we got together and have been together for 12 years.....most of our individual friends are common a mung us both....so yes it is hard to move forward with her dignity in mind.....bit I am a thoughtful person and am constantly calculating speculative outcomes of my actions and that includes the dignity of the ones I love. If the table was flipped and I was in her spot I would want the same treatment. I can't help she is weak and let her lust.. and frustrations get the best of her.... she is in worse shape Than I am in....for whatever reasons I don't care....her pain is real! So you suggest I should stomp on her even further..... I am moving forward with a much stronger stance now because the nice guy **** is not working.....but I also don't want her to feel alienated because she is not in her right mind....she is not using logic like I am. I think in time she will snap ouf it. If she is still talking to him I will find out. But I don't know that for sure right now. I don't think with her personality I can get her 2 by making her feel alinated. Does that make seance?


----------



## toonaive

Please dont tell me you sent that Email to the OM. If so, you just gave him permission to keep sleeping with your wife. If he shows that your wife, you will loose her forever. Why? You didnt fight for her. You offered her up to him. You just proved to the both of them you dont value her. I cannot imagine any man not getting seriously angry over this kind of thing. You cannot be real. 

Why are you so scared of the POSOM? Seriously! You need to expose, file for divorce, and have her served on the same day as the exposure. Stand up to them and show them there are consequences for messing with you like this. There is no room for any negotiation in their actions. Period!


----------



## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


I think that your email to the SOBOM is fine. You have let him know that one slip up and his wife will know.

The one and only reason for exposing an affair is to break up the affair. If it breaks up with out exposure then good.

For example when exposing to family members it's suggested to carefully pick the family members how will help you. To expose the affair and to ask them to help you save your marriage by them talking to the cheating spouse and encouraging the cheater to end the affair and rebuild the marriage.

Exposure is not about humiliating or punishing the WS (wayward spouse) or the affair partner (AP). It's about ending the affair and saving the marriage.

Now about telling his wife. If I were his wife I would want to know. When I found about my husband's affair and found out that a lot of people knew but never told me... well I've never spoken to them again. I have no use for anyone who would protect my husband's affair that way. By not telling, it took way my right to decide if I wanted to be the married to a man who was cheating or if I wanted to try to fix things. It also left me as, I feel, the object of gossip and thus the object of losing respect in the community.

I understand why you are not telling his wife right now. If your wife or the OM make one slip up and you find out that they are still communicating.. expose to her.

Sometimes it takes a community (family, friends and the other person's spouse) to save your own marriage.


----------



## toonaive

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


OH, its not hard to understand. Unfortunately it just wont work if your trying to R and save your marriage. The current POSOM may go away, but there will be another, and another, and another.......................


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## anchorwatch

To you, in the middle of the vortex and unable to see further, it makes sense. Those who watch the storm from afar can see where it's heading. 

No one said to embarrass your wife. She will have to own up to the pain her actions cause, to you and the families. 

You need and experienced guide. Find a MC, asap, and talk it out there.

If not, at least read the links at the bottom of EleGirl's posts.


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## EleGirl

toonaive said:


> Please dont tell me you sent that Email to the OM. If so, you just gave him permission to keep sleeping with your wife. If he shows that your wife, you will loose her forever. Why? You didnt fight for her. You offered her up to him. You just proved to the both of them you dont value her. I cannot imagine any man not getting seriously angry over this kind of thing. You cannot be real.
> 
> Why are you so scared of the POSOM? Seriously! You need to expose, file for divorce, and have her served on the same day as the exposure. Stand up to them and show them there are consequences for messing with you like this. There is no room for any negotiation in their actions. Period!


What nonsense. The OM is a POS. He deserves as much of attention as a roach. He does not deserve a visit in person... that takes more energy. The letter puts him on notice. The next step if he dares to talk to Jmon's wife is to expose to OM's wife. 

Jmon is not fighting the OM for his wife. This is not a contest. Either his wife returns to the marriage of her own free will or Jmon divorces her. Why on earth would he fight a POS like the OM? Why would be put himself into a contest against this POS?

There is not one word of negotiation in that email. It's clear.. stay the hell away from my wife or your wife will know. Pretty clear to me.

WTH? Why are people attacking the OP? He has to decide and do what he needs to do. His way just might work.



.


----------



## Jmon

Thanks!


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## carmen ohio

Jmon said:


> Ok I agree with some of everything a bit here. I sent her affair partner a email... here it is.... I think it is enough to scare him off.
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I know strange. Just to let you know I have all of your information and Liz's as well. I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife. Now, Kristen is ****ed up in the head right now. Women get much more emotionally involved in their affairs than men do. *I know you are paranoid and having the thought of me exposing this whole thing is in the back of your mind. It has taken all of my self control to not blow this thing wide open. But I also do not want to inflict the pain I am going through on anyone else. The thought and reality of losing your family is not fun. It hurts... I know you do not want that. But your wife should know how big of a piece of **** you are for disregarding everything she has ever done for you and giving her life to you. Enough said. Now Kristen says she wants a second chance and wants to be with me and wants to work out our problems and our marriage "so she says" she is still living with me so I guess I have to believe her or else she would be gone by now. I don't know if we will be successful, but we are trying. Now the reason I reached out you is because I don't want you talking to her ever again. Regardless of what happens between Kristen and I , you need to work on your marriage and your family. You obviously don't have that much respect for your wife in the first place, but she loves you and is the mother of you children, you should have no reason what-so-ever to be talking to Kristen. All of us **** up and should use our mistakes as lessons to guide us forward in life. I suggest you do the same. Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain. I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much. *And it really does make a difference to me as long as it is over. I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!*
> 
> 
> What do you all think.....I want to spare my wife any further imbareisment if I can. Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect.
> 
> 
> .


Jmon,

I know you are trying to do the right thing but, honestly, this is just about the worst BH to OM communication I have ever read. It would not be an exaggeration to say that it is cringeworthy.

You are the Neville Chamberlain of TAM/CWI. Actually, if you were Neville Chamberlain, you would not only have agreed to give Hitler the Sudetenland, but all of Czechoslovakia, Poland and the USSR up to the Ural Mountains.

I know you won't agree with me and, for the time-being, will continue to see your _"peace in our time"_ reaction to your wife's adultery as a thoughtful, measured, diplomatic response. Unfortunately, what you fail to understand is that women do not respect, admire, love and want to be with diplomats, they want to be with men.

So far, you are not behaving as one but I am confident that, eventually, out of necessity, you will.


----------



## bandit.45

I can pretty much guarantee Jmon does not know who Neville Chamberlain is.


----------



## Jmon

Ok we will see. But yes I am capable of crushing this of I want....and if need be I will....but diplomasy is the best measure to consider before exteme measures are taken. We will see. Maybe you all are right. But I am not afraid to expose and end it. Trust me. This is not war......so your comparison is hard for me to understand


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## ConanHub

This is too excruciating to be for real. OMW needs to know. Your wife embarrassed herself by letting another man bed her. You seem to want to own her stupidity. Fine, but make no mistake, she needs to own her shyt and face it to grow past it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Wow.....a disastrous email to OP's WW followed up by a catastrophic one to POSOM basically begging him to stop communicating with the WW, assuring him that he will be receiving no consequences for screwing OP's WW, and wishing him the best in the future.

Jmon.....I know you want to save your M and family....but right now your actions are akin to getting on the freeway heading in the wrong direction if that is the destination you want to reach.

You are headed towards marital disaster and eventual D.

You have received tons of great advice from posters who have been in the exact situation you find yourself in.

But you are not following one piece of advice they are giving you.

Objective Number One.....END THE A...which in ongoing as long as they are still talking.

And the only effective and sure way to achieve this is to BLOW UP POSOM to his BW and give him something else to worry about then trying to figure out how to reignite the A full time with your WW.

You simply cannot make progress on your M until the A is dead and over....and asking POSOM to please focus on his own M is NOT going to accomplish this.

If he had any respect for either his own M or yours, he would have never f*cked your WW in the first place.

H*ll...he even had the gall to start the process of seducing your WW into the A in YOUR OWN HOME with you asleep in the next room and her brother (his good friend) in the house as well.

Why do you think your scolding him is going to suddenly make him stop?


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## Jmon

I agree.... I am forcing her to do that....she after all did admit the affair. But yes she needs to be more open and face her issues. And that is between me and her and no one else. If she does not I will leave her ass......it's that simple. I have no problem with women what so ever.. I never had....I have hardly ever had to Persue.. a female in my life. Only one.... that was when I was a teenager and I learned my lesson...I don't know what else to say.. I have always had choices and women have always perused me. So that Is not the issue. I will drop her if need be..but the scope of our reality in terms of friends and family and my family is more important. I could easily find someone new with none of this drama attached to it. But I can't predict the future I can only use the past to draw conclusions from. And my heart tells me I am doing the right thing. I will set my demands and if she does not comply I will divorce....and move on. There is no use in humiliating her in front of her friends and family. Don't understand why you guys don't get that. She let me look through her phone....the phone records show no sign of comminication....I told her to unfriend him and hide herself from him on facebook....didn't chest to see if she did that yet. But she said she would. And she agrees to go to marriage counseling. So I think I am making progress


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## Dyokemm

"I am a thoughtful person and am constantly calculating speculative outcomes of my actions"

This is another way of saying you fear the consequences of making it plain to both your WW and POSOM that you will not tolerate one more second of their bullsh*t and disrespect.

The only outcome that matters right now is ending the A.

And the only way to achieve this is to expose it and blow it up.

Trying to 'nice' people out of an A NEVER works.


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## TRy

Jmon said:


> Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain.


 You actually told him that your wife's lover that you want to spare him the pain of his wife finding out that he has been f*cking your wife? Are you kidding me? Pure weakness.



Jmon said:


> I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much.


 So you admit to the guy that has been f*cking your wife that you are forgiving her without her even having to tell you what you are forgiving? That she has been true to her lover in protecting their secrets over being true to her husband in seeking reconciliation. Again, pure weakness.



Jmon said:


> thanks your cooperation is appreciated.


 You thanked him for his "cooperation" in no longer f*cking your wife. You actually thanked the him. Additional weakness.



Jmon said:


> Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect.


 It was a sign of respect by you for the man that has been f*cking your wife.

This will not end well for you long term. The only way to have a chance at saving your marriage long term is to have been willing to end it until she earned the shot at a second chance by her willingness to do the heavy lifting. This heavy lifting would have included her showing her remorse by telling you everything, which she has not been willing to do. Your weakness in handling this makes you less attractive to her, and lowered your chances at saving your marriage long term. You will one day read that email to the man that has been f*cking your wife and kick yourself for sending it.


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## tom67

Jmon you said this isn't a war...
It very much is a war to save your marriage and you are doing the opposite.
Good luck.


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## Jmon

I told **** head to not talk to her ever again or I will tell his wife.....I made that clear. if she continues to talk to him and will not change as a result of my less than drastic measures I will leave her that simple. **** everything that involves her and him...none of this will matter to me At that pint. If she can't do it on her own then I don't want her if she cant face her problems and make her own decision then she is gone...I see no need to force him to being pre-occupied with his drama by exposure and humiliating my wife in order to achieve my goals.


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## Dyokemm

Jmon,

With maybe a couple of exceptions, no one is telling you to move on and get a new W.

The advice you are being given is to give you a chance to save your M to your CURRENT W since that is what you say you want to do.

It is about consequences, demanding respect as her H, and requiring marital boundaries be maintained......NOT HUMILIATING her.

If she feels shame and humiliation when the news of the A comes out, that is an appropriate consequence for her shameful betrayal of her M and family....she SHOULD feel those things.

Maybe in the future, if you are able to R, the memories of those feelings will help her to stay loyal if she ever feels tempted to cheat again.


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> diplomasy is the best measure to consider before exteme measures are taken.


 The other man gets to f*ck your wife, yet you even talking about it to his wife is considered "exteme measures" by you?


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## bfree

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


Cost her public dignity? Let me ask you Jmon, what should having an affair cost her? Nothing? When was the last time anyone ever learned a damned thing without paying a price? Her brother will eventually forgive her but she shouldn't hang around her brother's friends should she? Should she?

Jmon, is your marriage important to you because right now you're treating it like a b!tch.


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## EleGirl

Jmon,

One of the things that you need your wife to do is to tell you if she has any contact at all with the OM.... if he txts her, she sees him on the street, whatever... she has to tell you. She has to show you the communication. Then if you chose, YOU respond to him. Otherwise you delete it.

If she does not tell you... that's a problem.


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## bfree

Jmon said:


> And no.....I don't feed off of humiliating events....I am processing all of your opinions....every person is different and the more opinions I have....the better I will be able to control my actions to-ward my situation....yes my wife treated me like ****....yes she threw me and our marriage under the bus.......yes she enjoyed some other man's penis.....yes she acted out if selfishness and gave into the lust that lies in all of us.... our marriage was ****y....she has problems......she needs help and needs to grow up....I am trying to give her that opportunity because I am fighting for something that is more than important than her selfishness and that is my family my children's inocent lives. My home my life.....my relationship with her friends her family....I am very close to them and am attached to my nieces and nephews...my wife and I are extremely interconnected in Web of people and we are all clis witch includes her family my family my friends her frinds. I was friends with my wife for 5 years before we got together and have been together for 12 years.....most of our individual friends are common a mung us both....so yes it is hard to move forward with her dignity in mind.....bit I am a thoughtful person and am constantly calculating speculative outcomes of my actions and that includes the dignity of the ones I love. If the table was flipped and I was in her spot I would want the same treatment. I can't help she is weak and let her lust.. and frustrations get the best of her.... she is in worse shape Than I am in....for whatever reasons I don't care....her pain is real! So you suggest I should stomp on her even further..... I am moving forward with a much stronger stance now because the nice guy **** is not working.....but I also don't want her to feel alienated because she is not in her right mind....she is not using logic like I am. I think in time she will snap ouf it. If she is still talking to him I will find out. But I don't know that for sure right now. I don't think with her personality I can get her 2 by making her feel alinated. Does that make seance?


Jmon, let me offer you a little perspective. Marriage requires three things to survive...love trust and respect. You may love your wife and she may in fact still possibly love you (recent events not withstanding.) But you do not have trust or respect. Trust is going to come eventually if you are both working to overcome the infidelity. But right now there is no respect and the more you try to spare her feelings the less respect she will have for you. Think of a child. How do you teach a child. Do you spoil them? Do you enable them when they do wrong? Or do you allow them to feel the consequences of their actions so they will learn life lessons? Not only are you seriously hampering your ability to save your marriage but you are setting things up for your wife to cheat on you again because she will have gotten away with it.


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> I told **** head to not talk to her ever again or I will tell his wife.....I made that clear. if she continues to talk to him and will not change as a result of my less than drastic measures I will leave her that simple. **** everything that involves her and him...none of this will matter to me At that pint. If she can't do it on her own then I don't want her if she cant face her problems and make her own decision then she is gone...I see no need to force him to being pre-occupied with his drama by exposure and humiliating my wife in order to achieve my goals.


So what makes you think they will not talk in a way that you cannot find out about? By exposing you will most likely not need to monitor their possible communications. He'll be too busy trying to save his own ass to bother with your wife's ass. With any luck he'll blame your wife for the whole mess and she'll see how much of a coward he really is. Then he won't be in her head anymore and you can she can heal your marriage. The way you've set this up he'll forever be the forbidden fruit, the one that got away, her special lover and soulmate that she can never be with. And you my friend will have no chance to recapture her heart because she will lock it away in memory of her long lost lover.


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## honcho

Jmon said:


> I told **** head to not talk to her ever again or I will tell his wife.....I made that clear. if she continues to talk to him and will not change as a result of my less than drastic measures I will leave her that simple. **** everything that involves her and him...none of this will matter to me At that pint. If she can't do it on her own then I don't want her if she cant face her problems and make her own decision then she is gone...I see no need to force him to being pre-occupied with his drama by exposure and humiliating my wife in order to achieve my goals.


You want to keep your marriage issues private and your concerned about your wife being humiliated to "achieve your goals". I understand your wanting to keep matter private, I get that. 

Heres your problem or to give you something to think about. Deep dark secrets are hard enough to keep when only two people are involved. Her sister knows, your daughter has an idea and most likely her brother knows because he is friends with the OM. You have too many players in the storyline to keep it quiet. 

Are you better off dealing with it now or when it accidently gets out in say a year from now and your doing damage control after the rumor mill has created a life of its own.


----------



## anchorwatch

honcho said:


> You want to keep your marriage issues private and your concerned about your wife being humiliated to "achieve your goals". I understand your wanting to keep matter private, I get that.
> 
> Heres your problem or to give you something to think about. Deep dark secrets are hard enough to keep when only two people are involved. Her sister knows, your daughter has an idea and most likely her brother knows because he is friends with the OM. You have too many players in the storyline to keep it quiet.
> 
> Are you better off dealing with it now or when it accidently gets out in say a year from now and your doing damage control after the rumor mill has created a life of its own.


Agreed!


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## ConanHub

Jmon. The only thing I think you have going for you is that you don't want to destroy your wife. Yet parts of her need destroying. I think you are on a partial right track with requiring what you are from her.

The omw still needs to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

This sort of thread is maddening to me on a level of basic humanity.

Just think of it: Jmon's W has an affair with a married man that Jmon now knows about. He, she, and the OM are all conspiring not to tell the OMW the truth about her own life. Not only that, but now hundreds of internet strangers are privy to this woman's private life decisions. What right do you have to decide her future for her? I would sincerely like to hear a credible argument in favor of your position, an argument that isn't based on pure, unadulterated self-interest.

I realize that you are fighting for your family, but you shouldn't discard your honor to achieve your goals. You diminish yourself by not respecting the OMW. For whom the bell tolls, and all that.


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## Jmon

some of you are assuming that a women should be treated like a Child. I don't really believe in that. she is resonsbile for her own decisions. Not me. I have no reasons to want to humiliate her. If I did what she did I would not want that either


----------



## tom67

Jmon said:


> some of you are assuming that a women should be treated like a Child. I don't really believe in that. she is resonsbile for her own decisions. Not me. I have no reasons to want to humiliate her. If I did what she did I would not want that either


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic:o


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> some of you are assuming that a women should be treated like a Child. I don't really believe in that. she is resonsbile for her own decisions. Not me. I have no reasons to want to humiliate her. If I did what she did I would not want that either


I was using teaching a child as an example simply because children tend to have much to learn. But most adults have a lot to learn as well. Sadly the majority of people are ignorant and content to stay that way. Your wife is not a child but it seems to me that she is childish in many ways. We all have much to learn. How do we learn life lessons as adults? As long as an alcoholic is enabled they will not stop drinking. As long as you help cover up a drug abuser's addiction they have no reason to get clean. I speak from experience in this. Your wife has committed the ultimate betrayal. She has damaged you, your children, and herself. What lessons shall she learn? What lessons shall your children learn? You say she is responsible for her own actions. So why do you cover up for her? Why do you lie for her? Your wife has a hole in her heart. A hole she tried to fill with another man. If you do not help her to repair that hole she will most likely try to fill it again, especially if she never learned that there are consequences for destructive behavior. So Jmon, answer this question. What consequences has she faced for betraying you, your children and herself? What consequences should she face?


----------



## carolinadreams

Jmon said:


> some of you are assuming that a women should be treated like a Child. I don't really believe in that. she is resonsbile for her own decisions. Not me. I have no reasons to want to humiliate her. If I did what she did I would not want that either


How is that working out for you so far?

So someone will not discuss anything with you for 6 weeks, and then insists you don't need the details - that's a person who should be treated like a child - i.e. a person with poor boundaries, poor communication ability, and the inability to contemplate future consequences.

Get individual counselings, make it clear you are uninterested in being in a marriage that's not monogamous, and then dig deeper. Infidelity appears to usually be a manifestation of some dysfunction or multiple dysfunctions. 

Odds are you are operating off the average marital playbook, and like the average person it has failed you.


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> some of you are assuming that a women should be treated like a Child. I don't really believe in that. she is resonsbile for her own decisions. Not me. I have no reasons to want to humiliate her.


 Do not treat your wife like a child. Treat her like an adult that is responsible for her actions. That means that regardless of what your wife feels about it, you tell the other man's wife so that the other man's wife can make informed adult decisions on her own marriage, such as not bringing any more children into her marriage, instituting opposite sex friends martial boundaries, and demanding full transparency including all passwords. By not telling the other man's wife, from the other man's wife's point of view, you are now a willing participant against her in keeping the affair lies. 



Jmon said:


> If I did what she did I would not want that either


 If you did what she did you would also not want to give up the affair for very long, would not want your spouse to tell your affair partner's spouse about the affair since it would make it harder to take it underground with two sets of eyes watching, and would not want to give up details of the affair because that would help your spouse be able to better detect your cheating when you take it underground.


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## Jmon

I don't think so.... I would.have come clean and ended it. And hope not to be humiliated I would never get involved with a married person. I have my prorities. ....and would realize my mistake.


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## turnera

honcho said:


> You want to keep your marriage issues private and your concerned about your wife being humiliated to "achieve your goals".


Jmon, assume two boys steal candy from a store. One kid gets home, dad finds out, yells at him (at which point the kid stops listening) 'never steal again!' But he won't go back to the store; wants to keep it a secret, to save face.

The other kid gets home, dad finds out, swiftly takes the kid right back to the store. He makes him apologize to the store owner. He tells the owner that his son will now work for an hour doing cleanup or stocking to make up for the price of the candy he stole. The son does it. They then go home.

Which kid is going to steal again?


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> I don't think so.... I would.have come clean and ended it. And hope not to be humiliated I would never get involved with a married person. I have my priorities. ....and would realize my mistake.


She's not you.


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## Jmon

Understood.......but she is not a child...maybe when she comes back to reality she will tell her herself. But I am still not humiliating her. It is not worth my time. If she does not comply I am done with her that simple. if our marriage does not get better I am done with her if she does not change I am done with her. I don't feel the need to go postal on this ****. Is not worth my time to deal with the clean-up and the insinuating damage ot will cause. If she does not open up....I am done with her. I have made that clear and am going to follow through with all my threats. I don't care about that dude and his wife. They mean nothing to me. He is her problem not mine. My wife is my problem.....and if she does not change she can go about her new life and I will mine. I am simply giving her a chance. No I don't think because someone makes a mistake that gives me the right to humiliate her. That is how I feel.


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## WorkingOnMe

Leaving this mans poor wife in the dark to protect your cheating wife's pride says a lot about your character.

Anyway I hear a lot of talking. Can somebody wake me up when he actually does something?


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## Dyokemm

turnera is spot on....she is not you.

And neither is POSOM.

YOU would probably react to an email like the one you sent him by dropping the A and refocusing on your M.

But this POS doesn't care about all that....he proved that by screwing your WW in the first place.

He is going to ignore you and continue talking to your WW and trying to keep the 'high' of the A going, especially since your WW still wants to continue too.

You know what will probably scare him away from pursuing your WW further?

Having his BW in his face livid with him after you tell her about the A.

At that point, the last thing on his mind will be continuing contact with your WW.

Of course, if you continue to let their A bond grow emotionally over the next few months as they continue contact, maybe they both will eventually decide to leave their spouses because they are so in 'luuuuvvvv' and soulmates.

Well if that happens, at least you'll be better prepared than his BW, right?

After all, at least you'll have a head's up or inclination its coming cause you know about the A already.

And I guess it won't matter that his BW will get slammed and have her M, family, and life turned upside down without any clue that the blow is falling, right?

jmon, come on.

From your posts you come across as a much better man than to ever let the possibility of this happening to this innocent woman.

Kill the A and at the same time give OBS a head's up on the train rolling towards her down the tracks.

Expose it!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Jmon said:


> No I don't think because someone makes a mistake that gives me the right to humiliate her. That is how I feel.


For the record, I don't believe for one minute that you're keeping this quiet to save HER from humiliation. This is all about sparing YOU from humiliation. You must know how this is all going to look when it come out (it ALWAYS comes out) all your friends find out this guy was doing your wife and all you did was send him an email begging him to stop and wishing him well.


----------



## Jmon

Not true at all!!!!! I don't care about my humilation. I have none....I have the ultimate out in this....


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> I don't think so.... I would.have come clean and ended it. And hope not to be humiliated I would never get involved with a married person. I have my prorities. ....and would realize my mistake.


 If you "did what she did", you would not be thinking like you do now. You would be thinking like a cheater. 

What you are missing is that the posters on this board have learned from experience that cheaters usually follow a script. It is almost spooky how consistent they are in doing this. They are drugged up with and addicted to the brain drugs that science shows are produced in new romantic relationships. We are not asking you to treat her like a child. We are asking you to treat her like an addict. Your refusal to do so is why the odds are not good for you to save your marriage long term. Google "Affair brain drugs" and you will see many articles, some from major publications, that will discuss this.


----------



## ConanHub

You have all your answers. TaTa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Primrose

Telling this POSOM's wife is not "going postal". It's called doing the right thing. She has just as much right to know about her cheating spouse as you do/did. 

Humiliating your spouse? No. It's called a natural consequence to her action (something we teach our children). And if your wife happens to experience some shame, so be it. The OMW has a RIGHT to know her spouse is unfaithful so that she has the same opportunity as you to decide what is now best for her (D or R). 

Do you really think her husband is going to come out with it? Your own wife wasn't going to tell you until she got busted and could no longer deny it.


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> Understood.......but she is not a child...maybe when she comes back to reality she will tell her herself. But I am still not humiliating her. It is not worth my time. If she does not comply I am done with her that simple. if our marriage does not get better I am done with her if she does not change I am done with her. I don't feel the need to go postal on this ****. Is not worth my time to deal with the clean-up and the insinuating damage ot will cause. If she does not open up....I am done with her. I have made that clear and am going to follow through with all my threats. I don't care about that dude and his wife. They mean nothing to me. He is her problem not mine. My wife is my problem.....and if she does not change she can go about her new life and I will mine. I am simply giving her a chance. No I don't think because someone makes a mistake that gives me the right to humiliate her. That is how I feel.


Have you SAID this to her? Exactly, how?


----------



## MountainRunner

Forgive me if I'm jumping in with bad info, but allow me to perhaps present a different perspective as to why she may be shutdown?

I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has been discussed, I apologize.

After my wife found out about my affairs I came clean and offered full disclosure. I also became extremely despondent/depressed. As a result of my "shut down", my wife interpreted my behavior as my "longing" to reestablish my EA with at least one of them...

Nothing could be further from the truth. Once I was able to realize why she was so upset, I let her know that it was a result of my shame and remorse for what I have done to her and her feelings. All too often, we interpret the behavior of our loved ones through our own "filter"...and that doesn't necessarily work. Anyway, that was a big turning point in our healing. 

FWIW


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Jmon
> No I don't think because someone makes a mistake that gives me the right to humiliate her. That is how I feel


.

I have not recommended that you humiliate her. I have been trying to get you to set some specific criteria for the change you want. You have been talking in generalities and have not posted specific criteria. Your stated generalities that are without a specific plan are below:



> By Jmon
> if our marriage does not get better I am done with her if she does not change I am done with her.


*Do you have a detailed list of what you expect to change?
What do you mean by “get better”?*


You told us about a few things that she does that are very destructive and I have reprinted them below:

Your wife trolls bars
Has sex with other man
Gets drunk
She lies
RESENTS YOUR CHILDREN
YOUR WIFE HAS SHOWN YOU NO RESPECT OR LOVE

*Are you going to include the above in your criteria for change?
When are you going to set a concrete understanding of the change you want?*

*When does she have to start showing some real change?
What time frame are you going to give her?*

You ask for our opinions but do not answer some of the questions ask of you. *Are you going to answer the above questions?* We are trying to help you but if you do not get to the specifics of what change you want you will just be floundering and not facing the hard part.

You have seen your wife suffer and you feel for her and that is admirable. However, without a plan with specific details on change your empathy will do no good. ACTIONS will tell the true story and you need to get those actions spelled out NOW and implement them immediately.

*Your marriage and your emotional health depend on your ACTIONS! Talk is cheap but ACTIONS change people.*


----------



## Jmon

Mr Blunt said:


> .
> 
> I have not recommended that you humiliate her. I have been trying to get you to set some specific criteria for the change you want. You have been talking in generalities and have not posted specific criteria. Your stated generalities that are without a specific plan are below:
> 
> 
> 
> *Do you have a detailed list of what you expect to change?
> What do you mean by “get better”?*
> 
> 
> You told us about a few things that she does that are very destructive and I have reprinted them below:
> 
> Your wife trolls bars
> Has sex with other man
> Gets drunk
> She lies
> RESENTS YOUR CHILDREN
> YOUR WIFE HAS SHOWN YOU NO RESPECT OR LOVE
> 
> *Are you going to include the above in your criteria for change?
> When are you going to set a concrete understanding of the change you want?*
> 
> *When does she have to start showing some real change?
> What time frame are you going to give her?*
> 
> You ask for our opinions but do not answer some of the questions ask of you. *Are you going to answer the above questions?* We are trying to help you but if you do not get to the specifics of what change you want you will just be floundering and not facing the hard part.
> 
> You have seen your wife suffer and you feel for her and that is admirable. However, without a plan with specific details on change your empathy will do no good. ACTIONS will tell the true story and you need to get those actions spelled out NOW and implement them immediately.
> 
> *Your marriage and your emotional health depend on your ACTIONS! Talk is cheap but ACTIONS change people.*


I do have a plan. I don't know who put the she trolls bars looking for men. I don't think that is true. We rarely go out with out one another. She has on some occasions, but I don't think it was to troll for me. But yes, she did screw some other dude, and yes she has treated my 2 kids like **** sometimes, and she is immature and has major anger issues. And yes she did lie about the whole thing, and obviously at this point I don't believe her about anything. Her confession seemed very sincere...... She told me she had been talking to the guy for like a month, "and it was obvious in retrospect" they met up for dinner got a hotel and screwed. She didn't tell me many details at all, she did tell me that she had the intent to get together with him and said she was really drunk and when she woke up she felt really bad and cried the entire time she drive home. She told me she did not feel loved in our marriage anymore and allowed for the attention because it made her feel good. She said she was not sure anymore what she wanted to do with her life and after she screwed the guy she felt horrible and new at that point she wanted to be with me. I asked her about protection ect.... asked when it started.... she told me some things but no much. She is a major rug sweeper in general and that has caused a lot of problems for us. She never wants to face any issues we have ever had, she always runs from problems and keeps her emotions locked up inside of her. She has always been that way. She told me she did not want to talk about the affair... she said she ****ed up and was sorry and does not want to be reminded of that night, now that was during the first 2 weeks after confession. She was being nice to me..... during that time, but if I brought the affair up, she shut down immediately. And because of that it fueled my anger. I was very mad and the first two Friday nights of those initial 2 weeks I went out and got wasted, and My sister has Superbowl party every year and that night I got wasted and came home. Now one of those Friday nights I went out with the sole intention to get laid. I hung out with some hot bar rat half of the night taking shots ect..... She was very attractive, but stupid, so it was a major turn off, plus I was crazy in the head.... She was ready to take me home near bar closing time... I had minimal contact with her no kissing ect... but I backed out.. went home and slept. Now the other friday night is when I came home drunk and tried to talk to my wife...I know a horrible idea...she ran away from me and that is when i went to daughters room.... I know really stupid. But I was ****ing wasted and not in my good shape. I am so mad at myself for doing that and that was by far the worse parenting mistake I have ever made. But I needed someone to talk to and me and my daughter are very close. Anyway not making excuses for myself. Now after the superbowl party......I did the same thing but this time my wife listened, and I told her I could not be with her anymore and some other stuff, but it was all reasonable. I think I really hurt her feelings at that point. After that I felt bad, and was thinking about to to a doctor to get some meds to settle my moods because in my condition I knew I was not helping the situation. One other night..... we where talking not about much but was starting to change my mind about meds, and was telling her about it. Then I brought up a concert she was sapose to go to. She had bought tickets a long time ago, and it was a band that I did not care for, so I told her not to get me a ticket. I told her that I did not want her to get wasted and come home late, she replied by saying that is what you do at concerts... bla bla bla.... I told her I wanted her to have only a few drinks and come home after the show, she said I can't promise that. I flipped out....... Told her she was a ass and a ***** and was immature and selfish.... could not believe that she would even go the concert while I was wallowing in pain contemplating going to a phyc doctor, for meds. Told her I wanted a divorce and it was over and I could not love with her anymore. I sent her an email the next day told her my conditions of the divorce and good luck. She never replied. So i was definitely not giving her hope... But the kicker is after the night I told my daughter..... my wife shut down.... that is when she became completely non responsive. After a couple of days... she told me she decided we where dome for good and ect..... I told her fine... she started taking to dude again.... I told her to move out... she said she did not want to and wanted to try to work things out... I said ok... and started to be very nice to her... But she did not show the signs of heavy depression until after my daughter knew. Now for 6 weeks I was nice to her, at the same time still trying to get her to talk but not being very aggressive, she did not tell me much... ect... I asked her if she felt like she needed to move out for a while, she said she did sometimes and sometimes she did not. BUt just some more details. She stayed super depressed.... told me she took a mental health assessment at her work and she scored really low and someone from the heath assessment agency was trying to contact her everyday. Then I started to feel bad for her, and decided just to simply try to help her get her mind right. I told her over and over again to go to the doctor, but she didn't though said she was thinking about it. She was not only non-responsive to me but even her own son... she was not herself and I could not stand seeing her that way. She went to her mom's one night for dinner, and asked me to come over and hand some stuff for her mom..... I did. She asked me not to bring my 12 yr old son because she did't feel like dealing with any problems that him and my 9yr old might get into..... I said ok. After I hung some stuff up, her mom asked me to stay for dinner and help her cook, I said ok... and was like damn I would have brought my son.... because I didn't realize I was going to be there that long... her mom asked why.. I said because my wife did not want me to..... My wife flipped.... I could see the anger build in her eyes, so I went outside to have smoke and soon after she came out and yelled at me as was like thanks now my mom is mad at me.....So when I went bak in the house her and her mom where fighting... her mom out of no where told her she needs to treat my kids better and they both where crying.... then my wife went postal cursed me out her mom... started to hyperventilate and she almost passed out. She tried to leave but I would not let her. Needless to say I got her to calm down... we ate, and I left. She came home... said she was sorry and she was ****ed up in the head. That night really opened my eyes to understanding that she had some major issues going on in her head and I did not think it was worth putting any more pressure on her. I did not want her to become suicidal or anything. She told me that when she was younger people because she holds all of her emotions locked up inside of her she was going to end up killing herself. So yes.... she was ****ed up man I really felt bad for her and the only way I knew how to respond was being nice.... and I was... super nice... very loving and affectionate. For 6 weeks. Now the last 2 weeks she seems better she has re-engaged with her son and is starting to with me. Now.... At this point.... I don't understand why I have one good reason to do something that will just send her back into emotionally ****ed up land by breaking this thing open. I want her to trust me and I want her to open up... and don't you all think that if I tell people she is close to or tell dude's wife whom will expose to everyone her mistake to her brother.... that it would be counter productive and lock her up even more........because she is in a emotionally ****ed up state right now and just starting to climb out of it?????? I DO NOT SEE THE POINT RIGHT NOW!!!!!! Seems very counterproductive. I will know all and the her level of sincerity once her brain comes back fully. She is still riding the very damaged emotionally side of her and logic right now has not fully been established in her head. I know it will come back, and then is when I feel like I can decided if she is lieing or telling the truth, but right now I can't expect her to think clearly.. but she is snapping out of it. Since i noticed she has started to come out of her depression a bit... I have taken a much stronger stance and will continue.


----------



## bigfoot

You, sir, don't have the ultimate out because you would not take it. You left the other bs uninformed to protect your wife. You don't want to face the full brunt of this problem. You can rationalize your concealment, but the fact is you are just afraid. Its okay. fear, that is.

The OBS means nothing to you, so you conceal your wife's acts from her. Well, you and your M meant nothing to OM so he banged your wife and they concealed it from both BS's. Is that really the bandwagon you want to hop on? Also, participating in the cover up of an offense makes you complicit in it. I know, I know, you have your reasons. Everyone who does something has a reason. Of course, there is a difference between reasons and right.

Anyhow, good luck with it all. I say the following, not because I want her to suffer, but because I don't want you to: The one who will win the battle is the one who fights like there is no tomorrow, not the one who talks about how awesome they would fight if they had to, tomorrow. Good luck. Never seen your method work, but you could be a trailblazer


----------



## anchorwatch

SO, you do see how bad her problems are. She (and you) need more help than you can provide on your own. 

Get her and you into therapy! ASAP! That comes first, above all. 

Deal with the OM later. Believe me, he is within your family circles, it's not going away. Sooner or later, there will come a time you will have to deal with him.


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> she told me she decided we where dome for good and ect..... I told her fine... she started taking to dude again


 This shows that the other man (OM) is still out there ready to f*ck your wife again, and that your wife still considers this an option. And yet you still do not want to tell OM's wife, because as you told him in your letter to him you are "a reasonable man" and you want to "spare" him the pain. Perhaps with another set of eyes on things, he would not have been as willing to resume things with your wife again.


----------



## toonaive

EleGirl said:


> What nonsense. The OM is a POS. He deserves as much of attention as a roach. He does not deserve a visit in person... that takes more energy. The letter puts him on notice. The next step if he dares to talk to Jmon's wife is to expose to OM's wife.
> 
> Jmon is not fighting the OM for his wife. This is not a contest. Either his wife returns to the marriage of her own free will or Jmon divorces her. Why on earth would he fight a POS like the OM? Why would be put himself into a contest against this POS?
> 
> There is not one word of negotiation in that email. It's clear.. stay the hell away from my wife or your wife will know. Pretty clear to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, but he is in a fight. Maybe not one of his choosing, but one that he has to struggle with none the less. I hope the OP's strategy works, and he regains his family. It is now forever changed. Good Luck Jmon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Jmon

Ho are you this morning? I hope better!

Please don't ever tell me you think I hate you again. I do not. You need to really try hard to use your logical side of brain now. 
Reason you should know by now that I love you.

1) I am still with you
2) I am not out trolling looking for revenge and being selfish 
3) I have not screwed anyone
4) for 6 weeks I have been very nice affectionate and understanding
5) I am trying to save our marriage
6) told you I wanted a baby
7) I have protected you from your family and friends and public humiliation due to your lies out of respect for you
8) I have not left because of your lies
9) I am doing my best to give you a chance to stay with me
10) have told you over and over again how I feel about everything and it always ends with us staying married

Now Please DO NOT SAY THAT I HATE YOU EVER AGAIN I CAN'T TOLERATE ANYMORE FALSE ILLOGICAL BULL**** AND IF IT CONTINUES I AM WALKING..... IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP!!!

Now, your actions following your betrayal have been very alarming, but I am giving you a chance to snap out of your emotional disorientation and start to deal with our and your problems. I have warned you that I can't do this very much longer, and that is for my own self-protection. It is true... I can't handle your defensive stance anymore. You are not worth my effort and time!!!! if you can not accept that you ****ed up beyond any reasonable excuse and you need to do anything and everything in your power to reconcile this act of lucid immaturity and self-indulgence, then I will walk away! No more. I promise it will be over. My soul is worn thinner that it ever has been in my life. I am emotionally drained. I will find the need to do something else with my life. And I am getting close. 

About our marriage that YOU AND ONLY YOU ended! (we had problems.....and you where not the only one that felt un-loved by FAR) We had a chance to fix our past marriage if we did not ignore our problems. You decided it was not worth fixing and ended it with your affair

Marriage takes some basic entities to exists: Mutual respect, Complete honesty , Admiration, TRUST, and most of all Love.
In our lowest points of this marriage we have lacked all of these qualities besides love. Now we are in a different boat.... Our marriage is over.... I think our marriage has realistically been over since sometime between 2011 and 2012. We did try to get it going again a few years ago but failed miserably. 

So how do we rebuild a marriage that will not only abolish all of our past grief we caused each other and allow for a strong foundation that will never ever break down again? I am not completely sure, but I do know that Rug-sweeping, lack of honesty, defensiveness, pity, selfishness, anger, denial and lack of respect will not do anything!!!! This is where you are now. I am not. 

I do know that counseling alone will not fix us.... it will take a lot more than that. So where do we start???? 
here is what I want to start happening immediately so I can start to trust and believe in you again!

If I ask you a question... Do NOT run away... answer it with complete honesty
If you have truly stooped talking to Pat good...If not do it now.....I want you to take his number out of your phone, I want you to un-friend him on facebook and make yourself invisible to him. I also want you to do the same for liz... I don't want you reminiscing your affair with him through her Facebook page. I don't want you looking at him every time she posts pics. I never want you or him to see each other intentionally again EVER!!!!!!) , delete what ever programs you guys used to communicate off of your phone including any e-mail address I don't know about or any chatting app that you may have been using. Not saying you have these things but I really don't know much so just in case! I don't think at all you have gotten over him and you still have an emotional attachment to him, so if you are reminded of him through facebook, you will never fully recover from your attachment and that will always get in the way of restoring your love for me. if he calls you or contacts you I want to know. If he text's you I want to know so I can send him a message back and tell him to leave you the **** alone or I tell his wife and he can suffer the same agony as I have because of your affair with that PIECE OF ****!!!
For now I wan't to be able believe you have done this.... so I want your passwords to whatever I wan't to be sure you are working with me here. As I hope you understand... It will take a long time for me to ever trust you again. I will trust you again in time as long as you are transparent and have been fully honest with me and have nothing to hide. I want you to get those books I requested ASAP. I will read one while you read the other... I want you to start with the surviving an affair book... I will read it when you are done. 


here is what I sent her this morning... Opinions??


----------



## EleGirl

toonaive said:


> Oh, but he is in a fight. Maybe not one of his choosing, but one that he has to struggle with none the less. I hope the OP's strategy works, and he regains his family. It is now forever changed. Good Luck Jmon.


My point is that he is not in a fight/contest with the POSOM.

He knows that he's in a fight for his marriage. That's pretty clear.

I do not see how posters here attacking him, putting him down and otherwise attacking Jmon is any help to him at all. He's here what? 48 hours maybe. The guy needs room to think without people bombarding him with mean spirited attacks.


----------



## alte Dame

It is impossible to know from what you write whether your WW is just manipulating you or if she is truly clinically depressed (or both).

In any case, if you really want to take care of her, you should insist that she get into treatment asap. You said that she told you she had a health assessment. What do you know for certain?

As for your long e-mails to her: I suspect that she finds it tiresome. Shorter and to the point is much more effective.


----------



## bfree

EleGirl said:


> My point is that he is not in a fight/contest with the POSOM.
> 
> He knows that he's in a fight for his marriage. That's pretty clear.
> 
> I do not see how posters here attacking him, putting him down and otherwise attacking Jmon is any help to him at all. He's here what? 48 hours maybe. The guy needs room to think without people bombarding him with mean spirited attacks.


Actually Elegirl I respectfully disagree. He is in a fight with the OM and that struggle is going on right now in his wife's head. The proof of that is relatively simple. Each time Jmon and his wife hit a low point she reaches out to her lover. IMO so long as he is in her head there will not be any room for Jmon and their marriage is doomed. Right now his marriage is bleeding to death from a severed artery and Jmon is looking for the band-aids. I think Jmon's wife is still in an affair fog but I believe that he is in a worse one.


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> Ho are you this morning? I hope better!
> 
> Please don't ever tell me you think I hate you again. I do not. You need to really try hard to use your logical side of brain now.
> Reason you should know by now that I love you.
> 
> 1) I am still with you
> 2) I am not out trolling looking for revenge and being selfish
> 3) I have not screwed anyone
> 4) for 6 weeks I have been very nice affectionate and understanding
> 5) I am trying to save our marriage
> 6) told you I wanted a baby
> 7) I have protected you from your family and friends and public humiliation due to your lies out of respect for you
> 8) I have not left because of your lies
> 9) I am doing my best to give you a chance to stay with me
> 10) have told you over and over again how I feel about everything and it always ends with us staying married
> 
> Now Please DO NOT SAY THAT I HATE YOU EVER AGAIN I CAN'T TOLERATE ANYMORE FALSE ILLOGICAL BULL**** AND IF IT CONTINUES I AM WALKING..... IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP!!!
> 
> Now, your actions following your betrayal have been very alarming, but I am giving you a chance to snap out of your emotional disorientation and start to deal with our and your problems. I have warned you that I can't do this very much longer, and that is for my own self-protection. It is true... I can't handle your defensive stance anymore. You are not worth my effort and time!!!! if you can not accept that you ****ed up beyond any reasonable excuse and you need to do anything and everything in your power to reconcile this act of lucid immaturity and self-indulgence, then I will walk away! No more. I promise it will be over. My soul is worn thinner that it ever has been in my life. I am emotionally drained. I will find the need to do something else with my life. And I am getting close.
> 
> About our marriage that YOU AND ONLY YOU ended! (we had problems.....and you where not the only one that felt un-loved by FAR) We had a chance to fix our past marriage if we did not ignore our problems. You decided it was not worth fixing and ended it with your affair
> 
> Marriage takes some basic entities to exists: Mutual respect, Complete honesty , Admiration, TRUST, and most of all Love.
> In our lowest points of this marriage we have lacked all of these qualities besides love. Now we are in a different boat.... Our marriage is over.... I think our marriage has realistically been over since sometime between 2011 and 2012. We did try to get it going again a few years ago but failed miserably.
> 
> So how do we rebuild a marriage that will not only abolish all of our past grief we caused each other and allow for a strong foundation that will never ever break down again? I am not completely sure, but I do know that Rug-sweeping, lack of honesty, defensiveness, pity, selfishness, anger, denial and lack of respect will not do anything!!!! This is where you are now. I am not.
> 
> I do know that counseling alone will not fix us.... it will take a lot more than that. So where do we start????
> here is what I want to start happening immediately so I can start to trust and believe in you again!
> 
> If I ask you a question... Do NOT run away... answer it with complete honesty
> If you have truly stooped talking to Pat good...If not do it now.....I want you to take his number out of your phone, I want you to un-friend him on facebook and make yourself invisible to him. I also want you to do the same for liz... I don't want you reminiscing your affair with him through her Facebook page. I don't want you looking at him every time she posts pics. I never want you or him to see each other intentionally again EVER!!!!!!) , delete what ever programs you guys used to communicate off of your phone including any e-mail address I don't know about or any chatting app that you may have been using. Not saying you have these things but I really don't know much so just in case! I don't think at all you have gotten over him and you still have an emotional attachment to him, so if you are reminded of him through facebook, you will never fully recover from your attachment and that will always get in the way of restoring your love for me. if he calls you or contacts you I want to know. If he text's you I want to know so I can send him a message back and tell him to leave you the **** alone or I tell his wife and he can suffer the same agony as I have because of your affair with that PIECE OF ****!!!
> For now I wan't to be able believe you have done this.... so I want your passwords to whatever I wan't to be sure you are working with me here. As I hope you understand... It will take a long time for me to ever trust you again. I will trust you again in time as long as you are transparent and have been fully honest with me and have nothing to hide. I want you to get those books I requested ASAP. I will read one while you read the other... I want you to start with the surviving an affair book... I will read it when you are done.
> 
> 
> here is what I sent her this morning... Opinions??


Jmon, do you believe that your wife cares about any of this? Here on TAM we tell people all the time that you should watch the actions and ignore the words. We say that because most of the time the disloyal spouse is emotionally confused and their words mean very little. In your case I think the same can be said about you. You have taken no actions in regards to this marriage or the current infidelity crisis. You are not leading you are talking. Talk is cheap. You talk to your wife. You talk to the OM. You talk to your daughter. You talk to us. But what do you actually do? Nothing. And nothing is exactly what you have been receiving for the last four months and it is exactly what you'll continue to receive until you stop talking and start acting.


----------



## happy as a clam

Omg...

OP... you are just digging a deeper hole with these "from the heart" emails.

What the heck are you trying to ACHIEVE?!

What are your GOALS?!

You have boxed yourself into a corner. You have cow-towed to EVERYONE involved here. The only person you are NOT looking to help is YOURSELF.

You want to protect your wife's reputation at all costs. Let her escape from "paying the price" when the piper comes calling (for her indiscretions). You want to beg the OM to "leave your wife alone" (when you really should kick his a$$) and if he complies with your "request" (keep in mind, he already f*cked your wife!!) then you will not out him. Because you're a "reasonable guy."

What the heck are you thinking???? Stop being "reasonable."

Do you HONESTLY think this will get you the results you want???

Wow... I guess I've seen it all now.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Jmon said:


> 6) told you I wanted a baby


Please don't do this. This will not fix your broken marriage or your broken wife.


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## Chaparral

Honestly, this wasn't the first time she didn't come home after getting drunk according to your first post. I have serious doubts this is her first rodeo, just the first time you caught her.

Regarding your logic, if an agreement has one false statement, the whole argue ment is false. 
You're between a rock and a hard place. Before you do anything further go to Amazon and download the MMSLP book linked to below. You do not understand the sexual dynamic between men and women. She isn't out banging other men because you have been a good husband. She picked a bad boy for a reason. Shut up and get the book. Rather the building respect you're losing it by your whiny emails. Everything you do displays weakness. Women are attracted to strength. All your complaints about her show you will tolerate inappropriate behavior over and over. This is the result.


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## bfree

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Bfree - the way I see it this clearly lays out what he expects. I like that it is direct but explains. That has to be the first clear step.
> 
> Agree that coupling actions, consequences, etc is needed, but I think he can do that as his next step.
> 
> It is very hard to read through these and watch people s I o w l y understand the things people here already know. The pace is difficult for most of us.
> 
> Then again I having the same corporate meetings over and over and over again.
> 
> It's because rule #1 is people don't change and exceptions to the rule, while rare, can happen but it can be a hard pill to swallow.
> 
> Not telling anyone here anything they haven't heard though


My problem is that this has dragged on for four months and this has all been said before. Once you state your position and you lay out consequences you must follow through. That's what he's missing...the follow through. At this point the only thing she's going to react to is actions and the longer he remains inactive the weaker he looks.


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## honcho

Your spouse is a runner the more emails you write the more she will view them as threatening and controlling. As I read them its all I,I,I and You,You,You. You got no we anywhere in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cluster

Jmon,

As some else has already said you are your own worst enemy here. These emails are pushing your STBXW further into his arms. I say STBXW because this is where this is headed you need to reach out to attorney. I get where you are coming from as I did a lot of the stupid **** you’re doing when my now STBXW ****ed my daughter x boyfriend. It’s really messed up but reality is she already left you so no amount of ***** footing around is going to fix that. You really need to decide if you want to salvage this marriage as your actions are indicating the opposite. Being in the fog I thought I was doing the right things and it lead to divorce that I filled. I didn’t have the nuts to do what everyone one on here suggested either and it lead to exact disaster which frankly looking back is exactly what needed to happen. Your road will end as follows. You will continue down this path of pleading for your marriage and one day you will get a letter from a bank indicating your STBXW has changed her address. It will finally open your eyes to what everyone is seeing here and that will clarify that you need to file for divorce. I hate it for you as it sucks but your giving your STBXW time that she needs to get her ducks in a row to file for divorce. The reality is you could do everything everyone on here has suggested and still end up in divorce court there are no guarantees that anything will fix this as that ship sailed when your wife found herself in another man’s arms. You need to tell this dudes wife what he did..you won’t embarrass her she will likely thank you for telling her. The truth doesn’t hurt it’s what sets you free. By you not telling her she will continue to wander through her life in misery and never exactly be able to pin point exactly why she is miserable. By telling her she will finally be able to understand why her life sucks. As for your situation at this point it may be the only thing that will snap your STBXW into reality. She already thinks you’re a chump don’t continue to confirm it for her and good lord don’t confirm it for the OM it will only further boast his N.P.D. Short and sweet is the way to go. She is likely feeling odd that you are sending these long drawn out emails as you never did before. Move on with your life as if she doesn’t exist for a week and you will see signs of her becoming interested in what you are doing. Have lunch with your son and let him tell her about how fun it was for you to have lunch with you. These of the sort of things that will indirectly show your STBXW that you are moving on without her and she will notice and if you’re lucky she will want to be a part of that. If she doesn’t she was already gone anyway. 

Good Luck Jmon


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## dental

OP,

With interest I've read your thread. You're in a relationship where your WW's actions are disrespectful and untrustworthy to you. 

What stands out to me is your reaction to her behavior. You seem to be stuck in your head which appears not to be connected to your heart and your gut. You don't present yourself as an integrated person. All I read in your posts is self-delusion. If you write about emotions (heart) and anger (gut), it doesn't come across as real. When under pressure, you seem to be thinking and doing non-productive things. 

Your non-existent self-esteem and fear (of your wife and everyone around you) motivates you to keep this charade up, to keep being stuck inside your head. This is what you know, this is safe for you. This keeps you from really absorbing the productive feedback that you've received here. Which is a pity, because this is exactly what you need. I think you have some maturing, some growing up to do, preferably via counseling.


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## cgiles

Jmon, did you understand than for save your marriage, you must be ready to lose it ?

Stop to send her emails. 
Stop to initiate with her.
Stop to take care of her.

More you will independant, more you will be attractive.


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## TRy

dental said:


> Your non-existent self-esteem and fear (of your wife and everyone around you) motivates you


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
@OP: Your wife's affair destroyed your self-esteem, while at the same time boosted hers. This is normal. This is why most people that discover their spouse has cheated on them make many of the same mistakes that you are making. This is why you are acting weak and not responding in the strong way that you normally would when faced with adversity. To make matters worse, you and your wife were suppose to be a team that stood together against all others, and now you learn that your wife had worked against you with another man. This is all so new. When you regain your self-esteem and reread these posts you will understand that we were not being mean, but were trying to help you. You will also post to other threads of people that just discovered that their spouse had an affair, saying to them much of what many are saying to you now.


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## BobSimmons

Jmon said:


> I do have a plan. I don't know who put the she trolls bars looking for men. I don't think that is true. We rarely go out with out one another. She has on some occasions, but I don't think it was to troll for me. But yes, she did screw some other dude, and yes she has treated my 2 kids like **** sometimes, and she is immature and has major anger issues. And yes she did lie about the whole thing, and obviously at this point I don't believe her about anything. Her confession seemed very sincere...... She told me she had been talking to the guy for like a month, "and it was obvious in retrospect" they met up for dinner got a hotel and screwed. She didn't tell me many details at all, she did tell me that she had the intent to get together with him and said she was really drunk and when she woke up she felt really bad and cried the entire time she drive home. She told me she did not feel loved in our marriage anymore and allowed for the attention because it made her feel good. She said she was not sure anymore what she wanted to do with her life and after she screwed the guy she felt horrible and new at that point she wanted to be with me. I asked her about protection ect.... asked when it started.... she told me some things but no much. She is a major rug sweeper in general and that has caused a lot of problems for us. She never wants to face any issues we have ever had, she always runs from problems and keeps her emotions locked up inside of her. She has always been that way. She told me she did not want to talk about the affair... she said she ****ed up and was sorry and does not want to be reminded of that night, now that was during the first 2 weeks after confession. She was being nice to me..... during that time, but if I brought the affair up, she shut down immediately. And because of that it fueled my anger. I was very mad and the first two Friday nights of those initial 2 weeks I went out and got wasted, and My sister has Superbowl party every year and that night I got wasted and came home. Now one of those Friday nights I went out with the sole intention to get laid. I hung out with some hot bar rat half of the night taking shots ect..... She was very attractive, but stupid, so it was a major turn off, plus I was crazy in the head.... She was ready to take me home near bar closing time... I had minimal contact with her no kissing ect... but I backed out.. went home and slept. Now the other friday night is when I came home drunk and tried to talk to my wife...I know a horrible idea...she ran away from me and that is when i went to daughters room.... I know really stupid. But I was ****ing wasted and not in my good shape. I am so mad at myself for doing that and that was by far the worse parenting mistake I have ever made. But I needed someone to talk to and me and my daughter are very close. Anyway not making excuses for myself. Now after the superbowl party......I did the same thing but this time my wife listened, and I told her I could not be with her anymore and some other stuff, but it was all reasonable. I think I really hurt her feelings at that point. After that I felt bad, and was thinking about to to a doctor to get some meds to settle my moods because in my condition I knew I was not helping the situation. One other night..... we where talking not about much but was starting to change my mind about meds, and was telling her about it. Then I brought up a concert she was sapose to go to. She had bought tickets a long time ago, and it was a band that I did not care for, so I told her not to get me a ticket. I told her that I did not want her to get wasted and come home late, she replied by saying that is what you do at concerts... bla bla bla.... I told her I wanted her to have only a few drinks and come home after the show, she said I can't promise that. I flipped out....... Told her she was a ass and a ***** and was immature and selfish.... could not believe that she would even go the concert while I was wallowing in pain contemplating going to a phyc doctor, for meds. Told her I wanted a divorce and it was over and I could not love with her anymore. I sent her an email the next day told her my conditions of the divorce and good luck. She never replied. So i was definitely not giving her hope... But the kicker is after the night I told my daughter..... my wife shut down.... that is when she became completely non responsive. After a couple of days... she told me she decided we where dome for good and ect..... I told her fine... she started taking to dude again.... I told her to move out... she said she did not want to and wanted to try to work things out... I said ok... and started to be very nice to her... But she did not show the signs of heavy depression until after my daughter knew. Now for 6 weeks I was nice to her, at the same time still trying to get her to talk but not being very aggressive, she did not tell me much... ect... I asked her if she felt like she needed to move out for a while, she said she did sometimes and sometimes she did not. BUt just some more details. She stayed super depressed.... told me she took a mental health assessment at her work and she scored really low and someone from the heath assessment agency was trying to contact her everyday. Then I started to feel bad for her, and decided just to simply try to help her get her mind right. I told her over and over again to go to the doctor, but she didn't though said she was thinking about it. She was not only non-responsive to me but even her own son... she was not herself and I could not stand seeing her that way. She went to her mom's one night for dinner, and asked me to come over and hand some stuff for her mom..... I did. She asked me not to bring my 12 yr old son because she did't feel like dealing with any problems that him and my 9yr old might get into..... I said ok. After I hung some stuff up, her mom asked me to stay for dinner and help her cook, I said ok... and was like damn I would have brought my son.... because I didn't realize I was going to be there that long... her mom asked why.. I said because my wife did not want me to..... My wife flipped.... I could see the anger build in her eyes, so I went outside to have smoke and soon after she came out and yelled at me as was like thanks now my mom is mad at me.....So when I went bak in the house her and her mom where fighting... her mom out of no where told her she needs to treat my kids better and they both where crying.... then my wife went postal cursed me out her mom... started to hyperventilate and she almost passed out. She tried to leave but I would not let her. Needless to say I got her to calm down... we ate, and I left. She came home... said she was sorry and she was ****ed up in the head. That night really opened my eyes to understanding that she had some major issues going on in her head and I did not think it was worth putting any more pressure on her. I did not want her to become suicidal or anything. She told me that when she was younger people because she holds all of her emotions locked up inside of her she was going to end up killing herself. So yes.... she was ****ed up man I really felt bad for her and the only way I knew how to respond was being nice.... and I was... super nice... very loving and affectionate. For 6 weeks. Now the last 2 weeks she seems better she has re-engaged with her son and is starting to with me. Now.... At this point.... I don't understand why I have one good reason to do something that will just send her back into emotionally ****ed up land by breaking this thing open. I want her to trust me and I want her to open up... and don't you all think that if I tell people she is close to or tell dude's wife whom will expose to everyone her mistake to her brother.... that it would be counter productive and lock her up even more........because she is in a emotionally ****ed up state right now and just starting to climb out of it?????? I DO NOT SEE THE POINT RIGHT NOW!!!!!! Seems very counterproductive. I will know all and the her level of sincerity once her brain comes back fully. She is still riding the very damaged emotionally side of her and logic right now has not fully been established in her head. I know it will come back, and then is when I feel like I can decided if she is lieing or telling the truth, but right now I can't expect her to think clearly.. but she is snapping out of it. Since i noticed she has started to come out of her depression a bit... I have taken a much stronger stance and will continue.


...paragraphs...


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## turnera

"If you don't straighten up, I'm leaving you! For good! I mean it this time!"

All while she's reading it and rolling her eyes and saying 'Geez, this is pathetic.'


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## turnera

BobSimmons said:


> ...paragraphs...


Seriously. Jmon, I quit reading after the first 10 lines. Add some paragraph breaks!


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## Jmon

So basically the advise I got from here is to file for a divirce, tell dudes wife, and act like I don't give a **** about her when she told me she cheated because she did not feel loved? Sounds counterproductive? Seems like I would be doing all the things that made her cheat on me.


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## carmen ohio

Jmon said:


> Ok we will see. But yes I am capable of crushing this of I want....and if need be I will....but *diplomasy is the best measure to consider before exteme measures are taken.* We will see. Maybe you all are right. But I am not afraid to expose and end it. Trust me. This is not war......so your comparison is hard for me to understand


Jmon,

From a conflict resolution standpoint, diplomacy is not always better. Sometimes, extreme measures are called for. That was the point of my analogy to the origins of WWII -- if the Western powers had stood up to Hitler before he occupied Czechoslovakia, a war that cost 60 million lives might have been avoided.

Of course, there was no way of knowing -- for certain -- that appeasing Hitler would lead to war. Likewise, there is no way of knowing -- for certain -- whether the _'go slow'_ approach that a few have endorsed and you appear to have adopted will lead to a worse outcome than the _'get tough'_ approach that many of us are advocating. You seem like a really bright guy and one who has an easier time dealing with the emotional fallout of infidelity than most. Both of these auger well for you future.

But you must realize that:

1) the way your WW reacted to your discovering her affair is not conducive to your family remaining intact;

2) so far, you have accomplished little in the way of getting her to do what she needs to do to save her marriage (ending all contact with the OM, becoming completely transparent to you in all of her communications, being willing to engage with you about what she has done and why, etc.); and

3) the longer this goes on, the more likely the two of you will end up divorced.


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## honcho

Your in the eye of the storm right now. Some of the advice seems against what you should do when your in the middle of this. Too many of us haved lived this disaster and too many have done exactly what your trying to do. It doesn't work. 

You need to get some emotional distance so you can see what's really going on. This isn't about proving you love her. She knows that already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

Jmon said:


> So basically the advise I got from here is to file for a divirce, tell dudes wife, and act like I don't give a **** about her when she told me she cheated because she did not feel loved? Sounds counterproductive? Seems like I would be doing all the things that made her cheat on me.


Let's break this down in a less than condescending manner shall we?

File for divorce - why are you receiving this advice? Because it is an action oriented way of showing your wife that the status quo is no longer acceptable. It is an act that will (hopefully) pull BOTH of you out of limbo. Nothing gets accomplished in limbo. Filing for divorce does not mean you actually will get divorced. It takes many months before a divorce becomes finalized and the process can be stopped at any time. If you do not feel comfortable actually filing maybe try this. Go online and download a divorce packet for your state. Start filling it out and leave it somewhere (not too obvious) where she will see it.

Tell dudes wife - why are you receiving this advice? Because it is the one sure fire way of making sure that the affair is over. When you do this two things will happen. It is very likely that the OM is going to show himself to be the coward that you and we know that he is. He will blame your wife for everything and beg his wife's forgiveness. If that is not weak behavior I don't know what is. Your wife will no longer think of him as a wonderful strong man. She will see him as the pathetic loser that he is. The second thing that will happen is that you will no longer have the sole burden of checking to make sure they are no longer communicating. It is likely that they wouldn't even try after exposure but if for some reason they are both incredibly stupid you now have an ally in the OM's wife. She will inform you if there has been communication. You can monitor less and spend your precious time working on your own marriage without having to act like an investigator.

Act like you don't give a shyte - I don't think anyone has actually said that to you. What they have said is that you need to stop chasing after her and let her come to you. Think about it. When someone chases someone else the person being chased runs away. When you stop chasing that person all of a sudden stops, looks around and maybe for the first time in a long time starts wondering where they are and how they got there. Nobody is saying to stop caring about your wife. The advice you've received is to stop wiping her ass and let her be a grown up. Only by accepting the consequences of our actions can we grow and learn. You are preventing your wife from learning a very valuable life lesson. That is not love, that is controlling and codependency. Let your wife learn her own lessons. She might just surprise you.


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## bfree

Jmon, I want you to think about this last thing. You seemed a tad insulted when you thought your wife was being compared to a child. But it is you that is treating her like a child right now. What do you do with a child? You protect them. You shield them from harm. You insulate them from the big bad world. Isn't that exactly what you're doing with your wife? Aren't you protecting her? Aren't you shielding her? By treating her like a child are you loving her? Are you respecting her? I don't think so. What do you think?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Jmon said:


> His wife is very good friends with my wife's brother and my wife absolutely adores her brother... if I tell dudes wife....this will all leak out to her brother and all of his friends.....if we fix our issues in the absence of exposure..she will still be able to hang out with her brother and his friends (obviously not her OM) when he (her brother) comes in town......if they all knew what they did...she would never be able to hang out with them without being embarrassed......I am mad at her....yes she ****ed up.....but should it cost her public dignity? I am trying to save this with causing the least amount of public damage that I can! Why is that so hard for some.of you to understand?


So, you want to fix your marriage by accepting her depression, believing you can work with the other man and worrying about your wife acceptance in her social circle...??
Really?

What you are doing is reinforcing bad behavior. 

I'm not going to reiterate all of the GOOD advice, even the people subtly blaming you, offered in this thread. Just promise to let these people help, when you discover they are still secretly in contact. 
Good Luck.


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> So basically the advise I got from here is to file for a divirce, tell dudes wife, and act like I don't give a **** about her when she told me she cheated because she did not feel loved? Sounds counterproductive? Seems like I would be doing all the things that made her cheat on me.


We are advising you to 
1) Set ground rules for what you will tolerate in your marriage.
2) Tell your wife that if she wants to stay married to you, she will stop all this behavior.
3) Set up a system by which you MONITOR that she is no longer cheating on you, which will include either taking off all passwords on her electronics or else GIVING you the passwords; handing them over whenever you want to verify she's stopped cheating/drinking/whatever; and allowing you to verify her whereabouts through a GPS on her car and phone.
4) Demand that she send No Contact letters to any OM that you first review and approve.
5) Set up counseling - both individual counseling for her to figure out what's wrong with her as well as marriage counseling so you two set up new, healthy dynamics to move forward.
6) Call the OM's wife and tell her what her H is doing so SHE can make similar decisions in her life, since apart from the two people cheating, YOU are the only person who has the information she needs. No one can do this but you.

Something to remember. Cheating is an addiction. The cheater IS A DRUG ADDICT. They get high on sneaking, doing forbidden stuff, getting away with it. How do you stop a drug addict? You get them to admit the addiction and get people around them to HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. You think that your/her family knowing what she did will cause her to never be able to face them again - to the contrary, a FORMER cheater will come to welcome others knowing because, in her newfound humility, she regrets what she did and wants to ensure she never does it again - and that includes asking her loved ones to help her stay on the straight and narrow. It's why I ALWAYS insist that cheaters acknowledge what they did and then APOLOGIZE for doing it. The humility is the A#1 way to keep a cheater from cheating again. If she were to apologize to her family/friends for what she did, and ask them to help her make up for it, I GUARANTEE you they will embrace her, forgive her, and help her. You can't ask for a better situation than that.


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## VFW

Jmon, 
Sorry that you find yourself in this position. I know that the advice that you have been given may seem the opposite of what you want to do and in fact that is true for most folks. I won’t say that it is the only way, but the purpose is to shake them out of the fog of the affair. Even in your case the reason that your wife became amicable to reconciliation was because of your exposure to your daughter and not you being overly nice to her. I certainly don’t condone exposing to all, blowing up facebook or other more extreme scenarios, but key players do need to know. I think that your brother-in-law needs to know this information. Personally, I would be upset if you didn’t tell me and I found out later, he is not a child and has a need to know as he is good friends from what you say. The exposure can be done discreetly and doesn’t have to be a family drama. Some of my brethren can be a little intense at time, but they do have your best interest at heart. Still the bottom line is it is your marriage and have to do what you think is best. Best of luck to you and your family, I hope that you happen to be the exception to the norm.


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## Jmon

Update....

Wife actually talked about the affair today with a bit of an attitude but not much A huge improvent.. we didn't get to far because it was over the phone! We can't really ever talk at home cuzz of kids. 

I told her the only reason I have not told dudes wife is because of her brother

She told me she already told her brother but did not want me to drag him into our dramma...shocked me

She complied to all my demands

Says she wants nothing to with other dude at all and has not talked to him in long while

She did tell me my stern-Ness in the emails is annoying..

She said she wants to talk more but wants to save it for counseling because she does want to enjoy her life when at home and. without the constant banter about her mistake


She unfriend-ed dude and wife on facebook and hid them from her

She ordered the books I asked her 2


She said she is worried about me and will do her best to do what-ever I need to feel better however is worried I will never trust her again so she does feel like giving up sometimes

Said she is emerging from her depression


She said she is committed to the marriage just hated the situation we are in because it sucks.... and makes like sucks "exact words"


She said she does not think there is any use to tell dudes wife cuzz of their two very young children

She said I am not unattractive to her at all....just my behavior sometimes can be annoying because I think 2 much and it extends situations beyond where they need to go.....I know myself and agree with her...that is how I am about everything....there is never an absolute with me.....

She said the treat of divorce from me only makes her even more pissed and makes her feel like I hate her...(good point) I would feel the same way if I where in her shoe. 

And as a response to the 3 strike thing....

I an exactly the same way....I do really don't take **** from anyone that bull****s outside of the ones I love. probably the reason I don't have many friends that I consider people I would ever trust. 

Yes...my wife is a *****....she ****ed up and if where not for my family I would have dropped her with no second thoughts and enjoy my new found freedom to the max. 

I am not insecure what-so-ever....sometimes I actually think I am overconfident at times. her cheating on me has nothing to do with my self-confidence being damaged....she is the one who was thoughtless and gave into what we all dream about in the first place. Not really my fault..... Trust me I have had my chances and didn't fold...but was pretty close once....the women was just so f-ING hot and I had just that right buzz kicking and she was doing everything right....backed out because I am stronger than my wife. 

We will see where it goes.....but things are improving

I asked her earlier this month to unfriend dude and she said the it's not a good idea.... and hung up on me. I didn't revisit it after that. But I also did not demand it like I did this time.


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## weightlifter

Dude. Channel your inner Klingon.

Maybe this will make you mad: she shot HIS load inside YOUR wife. There are many legal ways to fvck him over. Start blowing up his world. Start by telling his wife.

File alienation of affection just to make him worry.

Yes I know, I'm dreaming.


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## turnera

Great! Her brother knows!

Call him up RIGHT NOW and tell him she's said she'll stop cheating, and you want to ask him to help you help her - by monitoring her for you.


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## carmen ohio

Jmon, some things to think about:



Jmon said:


> . . . I will set my demands and if she does not comply I will divorce....and move on . . .


What _"demands"_ have you made? With which has she complied? With which has she not?



Jmon said:


> . . . If she does not comply I am done with her that simple. if our marriage does not get better I am done with her if she does not change I am done with her . . . If she does not open up....I am done with her. I have made that clear and am going to follow through with all my threats. . . . if she does not change she can go about her new life and I will mine. I am simply giving her a chance . . .


By when must she comply? By when must your marriage get better? By when must she change? For how long will you give her a chance?



Jmon said:


> I do have a plan.


Besides giving her a chance, what is the plan?



> . . . yes, she did screw some other dude, and yes she has treated my 2 kids like **** sometimes, and she is immature and has major anger issues. And yes she did lie about the whole thing. . . She didn't tell me many details at all . . . she told me some things but no much. She is a major rug sweeper in general and that has caused a lot of problems for us. She never wants to face any issues we have ever had, she always runs from problems and keeps her emotions locked up inside of her. She has always been that way. She told me she did not want to talk about the affair... she said she ****ed up and was sorry and does not want to be reminded of that night . . . if I brought the affair up, she shut down immediately.


Has any of this improved?



> . . . after the superbowl party......I did the same thing but this time my wife listened, and I told her I could not be with her anymore and some other stuff, but it was all reasonable. I think I really hurt her feelings at that point. After that I felt bad


She cheats on you. You tell her you can not be with her anymore. You think you've hurt her feelings and that makes you feel bad. Doesn't something seem amiss to you? If so, read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover (https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf).



> . . . One other night..... we where talking not about much . . . Then I brought up a concert she was sapose to go to. She had bought tickets a long time ago, and it was a band that I did not care for, so I told her not to get me a ticket. I told her that I did not want her to get wasted and come home late, she replied by saying that is what you do at concerts... bla bla bla.... I told her I wanted her to have only a few drinks and come home after the show, she said I can't promise that. I flipped out....... Told her she was a ass and a ***** and was immature and selfish.... could not believe that she would even go the concert while I was wallowing in pain contemplating going to a phyc doctor, for meds. Told her I wanted a divorce and it was over and I could not love with her anymore. I sent her an email the next day told her my conditions of the divorce and good luck. She never replied. So i was definitely not giving her hope...


You threaten divorce and she doesn't respond. You interpret this as you not giving her hope. Think about that.



> But the kicker is after the night I told my daughter..... my wife shut down.... that is when she became completely non responsive. After a couple of days... she told me she decided we where dome for good and ect..... I told her fine... she started taking to dude again.... I told her to move out... she said she did not want to and wanted to try to work things out... I said ok... and started to be very nice to her . . . Now for 6 weeks I was nice to her, at the same time still trying to get her to talk but not being very aggressive, she did not tell me much . . .
> 
> She stayed super depressed.... told me she took a mental health assessment at her work and she scored really low and someone from the heath assessment agency was trying to contact her everyday. Then I started to feel bad for her, and decided just to simply try to help her get her mind right . . . She was not only non-responsive to me but even her own son... she was not herself and I could not stand seeing her that way.
> 
> She went to her mom's one night for dinner, and asked me to come over . . . My wife flipped.... I could see the anger build in her eyes, so I went outside to have smoke and soon after she came out and yelled at me as was like thanks now my mom is mad at me.....So when I went bak in the house her and her mom where fighting... her mom out of no where told her she needs to treat my kids better and they both where crying.... then my wife went postal cursed me out her mom... started to hyperventilate and she almost passed out. She tried to leave but I would not let her. Needless to say I got her to calm down... we ate, and I left. She came home... said she was sorry and she was ****ed up in the head. That night really opened my eyes to understanding that she had some major issues going on in her head and I did not think it was worth putting any more pressure on her . . .
> 
> At this point.... I don't understand why I have one good reason to do something that will just send her back into emotionally ****ed up land by breaking this thing open. I want her to trust me . . . Since i noticed she has started to come out of her depression a bit... I have taken a much stronger stance and will continue.


Do you see any strength in this accounting? Or do you see a man backing down every time his wife refuses to do what they both know she should?


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## phillybeffandswiss

So, did you call to confirm?

It's sad that she is rewriting the marriage in front of your eyes and you believe she is coming out of her depression.


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## Dyokemm

Telling you that her brother knows, but not to drag him into it is probably a lie.

If you read enough threads on here, WS's are constantly telling BS's that OBS, parents, etc already know...so there is no need to expose to them, or they don't care, or anger about why the BS wants to disrupt their lives....blah, blah, blah.

Almost always it is a ploy to stop the BS from exposing the A.

Meanwhile, the WS is usually painting the BS as a horrible monster to these same people (except for the OBS of course) just in case it does come out.

Also....she shows zero remorse or guilt.

She is p*ssed that you have threatened D?

Well what type of response did she think she'd get after cheating?

The fact that you think the exchange with your WW represents progress and a real breakthrough just shows how much in denial you are IMO.

But at this point jmon, its become apparent to me that you are not open to following any of the advice from the experienced posters here....you are determined to try your own way.

I seriously wish you good luck with that....I hope you can save your M.

But I'm out.


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## carmen ohio

Jmon said:


> Update....
> 
> *Wife actually talked about the affair today with a bit of an attitude* but not much A huge improvent.. we didn't get to far because it was over the phone! We can't really ever talk at home cuzz of kids.
> 
> I told her the only reason I have not told dudes wife is because of her brother
> 
> *She told me she already told her brother but did not want me to drag him into our dramma*...shocked me
> 
> She complied to all my demands
> 
> Says she wants nothing to with other dude at all and has not talked to him in long while
> 
> *She did tell me my stern-Ness in the emails is annoying..*
> 
> She said she wants to talk more but wants to save it for counseling because *she does want to enjoy her life when at home and. without the constant banter about her mistake*
> 
> 
> She unfriend-ed dude and wife on facebook and hid them from her
> 
> She ordered the books I asked her 2
> 
> 
> *She said she* is worried about me and will do her best to do what-ever I need to feel better however *is worried I will never trust her again so she does feel like giving up sometimes*
> 
> Said she is emerging from her depression
> 
> 
> *She said she *is committed to the marriage *just hated the situation we are in because it sucks*.... and makes like sucks "exact words"
> 
> 
> *She said she does not think there is any use to tell dudes wife* cuzz of their two very young children
> 
> *She said* I am not unattractive to her at all....just *my behavior sometimes can be annoying because I think 2 much and it extends situations beyond where they need to go*.....I know myself and agree with her...that is how I am about everything....there is never an absolute with me.....
> 
> *She said the treat of divorce from me only makes her even more pissed* and makes her feel like I hate her...(good point) I would feel the same way if I where in her shoe.
> 
> And as a response to the 3 strike thing....
> 
> I an exactly the same way....I do really don't take **** from anyone that bull****s outside of the ones I love. probably the reason I don't have many friends that I consider people I would ever trust.
> 
> Yes...my wife is a *****....she ****ed up and if where not for my family I would have dropped her with no second thoughts and enjoy my new found freedom to the max.
> 
> I am not insecure what-so-ever....sometimes I actually think I am overconfident at times. her cheating on me has nothing to do with my self-confidence being damaged....she is the one who was thoughtless and gave into what we all dream about in the first place. Not really my fault..... Trust me I have had my chances and didn't fold...but was pretty close once....the women was just so f-ING hot and I had just that right buzz kicking and she was doing everything right....backed out because I am stronger than my wife.
> 
> We will see where it goes.....but *things are improving*
> 
> I asked her earlier this month to unfriend dude and she said the it's not a good idea.... and hung up on me. I didn't revisit it after that. But I also did not demand it like I did this time.


Amazing. Your WW calls you up and, in so many words, tells you to back off and stop being an jerk. You conclude that things are improving.

Your ability to hear what you want to hear and see what you want to see, rather than what she is really saying and doing, will be your downfall.


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## turnera

Dyokemm said:


> Telling you that her brother knows, but not to drag him into it is probably a lie.
> 
> If you read enough threads on here, WS's are constantly telling BS's that OBS, parents, etc already know...so there is no need to expose to them, or they don't care, or anger about why the BS wants to disrupt their lives....blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Almost always it is a ploy to stop the BS from exposing the A.


Shhhhh! I was trying to get him to call up the brother! Like he SHOULD be doing.


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## 6301

You know after 15 pages and lord only knows how much time, your still at square one. 

All you do is say "I'm gong to do this", or "I'm going to do that" if she doesn't pull her head out of her ass and so far all you have done is talk with no intentions of drawing a line in the sand and saying enough is enough. 

Got news for you pal, she whipping your ass seven ways to Sunday and all your doing is backing up and giving her another chance to take a swing at your chin. You lost and IMO when she starts getting nasty with your kids and you stand there with your thumb up your ass and do nothing except make more feeble excuses for her then you get what you deserve.

She cheated and she's making your life miserable because you have the nerve to ask questions and to make matters worse you make excuses for her.

Enjoy your life. You should get yourself a T shirt with the word "WELCOME" on it and lay down outside your front door.


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## phillybeffandswiss

carmen ohio said:


> Amazing. Your WW calls you up and, in so many words, tells you to back off and stop being an jerk. You conclude that things are improving.


Thank you. You saved me the time of writing a post pointing this out. 

I mean, she basically laid everything at his feet and he said she was right.


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## Jmon

The demands she met so far


Orderd the booKs

Gave me passwords 

Unfriend-ed him and wife and blocked them on Facebook

Agreed to marriage counseling

Gave me acess to her phone

She has opened a much stronger line of communication... as I demanded

now she has a lot more to do...but people don't change instantly ....it will take some time and if she does not ...I will leave her and I have been getting all my ducks in a row in preparation for this.

I think counseling will help her/us a lot. And I will encourage her to get individual counsleng. but unlike some of you in here I think she has to make That decision for herself.... I can't make her change she has to be willing...if she does not... she will loose me... it is that black and white for me. 


I have read a ton on this subject... I am getting a good grasp on what she went through..... I have no doughts at all she grew an emotional attachment to the guy....that is what happens if any of us allow it. She did it because she is selfish...I really hope she learns her lesson and actually makes her own conscious decision to change for the better... in reality I don't think she is worth my time unless she takes the resposibility on her own to make these changes... I am and will be fine once I get closure based on her actions... I jump started her with my demads....if she does not show strong initiative moving forward she is not worth any of my emotional support anymore. Now I know you all will say that is a sign of weakness....but it is not...that is how I feel. people make their own choices and decide how to react to their mistskes... my wife is obviously still acting selfish...hopefully in time she will begin to realize this! I think she is coming around... if she does not I will kick her out. there are plenty of women in this world with better values than her at this moment in time....so being alone or worried about myself being lonely is not the issue....it is all about my family.


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> it will take some time and if she does not ...I will leave her and I have been getting all my ducks in a row in preparation for this.
> 
> I think counseling will help her/us a lot. And I will encourage her to get individual counseling. but unlike some of you in here I think she has to make that decision for herself.... I can't make her change she has to be willing...if she does not... she will loose me... it is that black and white for me.


I've asked you this before, I think...have you ACTUALLY spelled this out for her? That YOU WILL LEAVE if she doesn't find these things necessary?


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## Noble1

Jmon. Hope you are really feeling as understanding as you seem to be.

Just remember that you did not cause your wife to cheat and lie and dis-respect you.

Yeah, maybe you did some stuff that wasn't great and maybe you weren't the best husband/friend/lover, etc......it doesn't matter.

The CHOICE to cheat was 100% with your wife.

If and when you do start to feel the anger at this...do not be afraid of the feelings as they are a natural effect of being betrayed by someone so close to you.

Feeling hurt/angry/etc. will not make you a 'bad' person. Just a human one.

Take time for yourself and do things that will help you out as well. You really do deserve it.

Also, while some of the advice here seem like it is over the top, it is provided by people who have directly experienced what you are going through now - and it really does work.

Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Jmon said:


> I think counseling will help her/us a lot. And I will encourage her to get individual counsleng. but unlike some of you in here I think she has to make That decision for herself.... I can't make her change she has to be willing...if she does not... she will loose me... it is that black and white for me.


 . Some of who? You enjoy misinterpreting posts don't you? Who said you can make her do anything? Everyone is telling you how to act and change *for yourself*, not to change or force her to do anything..



> I have read a ton on this subject... I am getting a good grasp on what she went through..... I have no doughts at all she grew an emotional attachment to the guy....that is what happens if any of us allow it. She did it because she is selfish...I really hope she learns her lesson and actually makes her own conscious decision to change for the better... in reality I don't think she is worth my time unless she takes the resposibility on her own to make these changes... I am and will be fine once I get closure based on her actions...* I jump started her with my demads*....if she does not show strong initiative moving forward she is not worth any of my emotional support anymore. Now I know you all will say that is a sign of weakness....but it is not...that is how I feel. *people make their own choices and decide how to react to their mistskes..*. my wife is obviously still acting selfish...hopefully in time she will begin to realize this! I think she is coming around... if she does not I will kick her out. there are plenty of women in this world with better values than her at this moment in time....so being alone or worried about myself being lonely is not the issue....it is all about my family.


I'm going to ignore the family card you just played, it isn't the trump you think.

It's funny, you talk about choice and then take credit for jump starting her recovery. Naw, she chose to let this play out for 2 months. Then she chose, you'll never know the entire truth why, to let you back in, with rules, stipulations and insults, to work on things now.


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## Jmon

Confirmed brother knows .... just talked to him.... he also confirmed that she is not talking to him....I guess on his sisters word....and.he said he is glad we are.trying to work it out and he offered his help in any way...


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## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> The demands she met so far
> 
> 
> Orderd the booKs
> 
> Gave me passwords
> 
> Unfriend-ed him and wife and blocked them on Facebook
> 
> Agreed to marriage counseling
> 
> Gave me acess to her phone
> 
> She has opened a much stronger line of communication... as I demanded
> 
> now she has a lot more to do...but people don't change instantly ....it will take some time and if she does not ...I will leave her and I have been getting all my ducks in a row in preparation for this.
> 
> I think counseling will help her/us a lot. And I will encourage her to get individual counsleng. but unlike some of you in here I think she has to make That decision for herself.... I can't make her change she has to be willing...if she does not... she will loose me... it is that black and white for me.
> 
> 
> I have read a ton on this subject... I am getting a good grasp on what she went through..... I have no doughts at all she grew an emotional attachment to the guy....that is what happens if any of us allow it. She did it because she is selfish...I really hope she learns her lesson and actually makes her own conscious decision to change for the better... in reality I don't think she is worth my time unless she takes the resposibility on her own to make these changes... I am and will be fine once I get closure based on her actions... I jump started her with my demads....if she does not show strong initiative moving forward she is not worth any of my emotional support anymore. Now I know you all will say that is a sign of weakness....but it is not...that is how I feel. people make their own choices and decide how to react to their mistskes... my wife is obviously still acting selfish...hopefully in time she will begin to realize this! I think she is coming around... if she does not I will kick her out. there are plenty of women in this world with better values than her at this moment in time....so being alone or worried about myself being lonely is not the issue....it is all about my family.


I saw that you wanted her to read "Surviving an Affair" first. Then you will read it. It's a bad idea to have her read that one first. That is a book more for the betrayed spouse to read. Then she can read it with you talking to her about it.

What other books did you ask her to order?


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> Confirmed brother knows .... just talked to him.... he also confirmed that she is not talking to him....I guess on his sisters word....and.he said he is glad we are.trying to work it out and he offered his help in any way...


Excellent! Good job. 

Is she living somewhere else?


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## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Confirmed brother knows .... just talked to him.... he also confirmed that she is not talking to him....I guess on his sisters word....and.he said he is glad we are.trying to work it out and he offered his help in any way...


::: tagging back in :::

That's great. Having the support of family in situations like this is priceless.

Now will you PLEEEAAAAASE expose the affair to OM's wife?!?


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## Jmon

I agree with you 100% she made the choice. She has issues to work on. No dought... now on the flip side she could have kept going... she could have decided to leave me... but did not. now every person in this world differnt. While human patterns are simmiler and can be grouped to an extent People handle things and problems uniquely through their own individual thoughts And actions. I believe that and I also believe there is more than one way to handle a situation and have similer outcomes. Now it seems there a few on here that don't take into account unique individual reactions and assume everyone women is the same. There is a massive difference between people and their level. of intelegence and how one processes information... I don't want to scare my wife into being with me. She has her OWN choices to make... just because I am tolerating her right now does not mEan I will accept it in the future. I am giving her time to adjust. I don't see why thst should be an issue. And yes, I am not full of rage... my family is healthy and happy..... I am an optimistic person. And so my best to see.the best in people and situations especially the people I have chosen to be a part of my life. now that being said yea she hurt me ... fine I can deal with that... the old saying...you drag a hire to water and not make them drink... it will take some time for this situation To resolve. My wife told me she thought she was done with the marriage after she confessed... so who am I to demand that she stays if she does not want to? She decided to stay...I am sure she was in limbo for a while... some of you are calling that minipulation....but I think it is true... she left the marriage when. She cheated... decided she wanted to come back.... she told me that... now yes very poor decision... but I can't change it. I will know if I feel confident with her moving forward as things progress.. I believe everyone deserves room for error in life... and we will see How she reacts and changes moving forward. If I don't like it, I will quit. I decided to give her a second chance....she asked for IT.... If she fails to change she will be someone else's problem.


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## Jmon

No... we have been living together... at fist I tried to kick her out... she would not leave. she has not spent a night away since...


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## kennethk

From another thread for reference:

daisygirl 41
Member

daisygirl 41's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,967
Default Daisygirls quick update


> Hi friends, for those of you who remember me and helped me so much on my journey, well after a turbulent 4 years H and I are on the road to fixing this marriage at last.
> We are in MC, H has left his job, we have complete transparency and things are looking good.
> What happened? I detached, I let him go and I asked him for a divorce and of course his world came crashing down.
> We are taking it very slow, there's been so much hurt, but he is doing everything he should be doing, without my asking.
> So nearly 4 years after this nightmare began things are definitely looking positive.
> Hope you are all well.
> Hugs
> DG
> Xx


and one more thing - how can you not be raging about this?
*He dumped his semen into your wife's Vagina.*
You also do not know what they did that she won't do for you.
You know nothing about the activities of the affair.

I'd be furious.


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## Jmon

I don't agree with that.... my wife has pretty much done anything and everything sexualy with me. the issue with her was an emotional.one not a sexual one. Trust me there is nothing they did in one night that could ever match out entire sex like... we are pretty fun and creative when it comes to sex.


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## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> I don't agree with that.... my wife has pretty much done anything and everything sexualy with me. the issue with her was an emotional.one not a sexual one. Trust me there is nothing they did in one night that could ever match out entire sex like... we are pretty fun and creative when it comes to sex.


LOL... you actually think it was just once...?!?

Aww... that's just adorable.


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## RWB

Damn... This is it for me. I will refrain from now on. 



Jmon said:


> Update....
> She said she is worried about me and will do her best to do what-ever I need to feel better *however is worried I will never trust her again *so she does feel like giving up sometimes


*She's right,* why would you ever trust her 100% again. You won't and tell her that. Sorry but she violated sacred vows. You only get one chance at Trust. If she can't get over that... Bail Now.



Jmon said:


> Update....
> *She said she does not think there is any use to tell dudes wife cuzz of their two very young children*


Oh the Children. Did she think about the Children while he was plowing the rows between her legs? Please... let the OMW know... yesterday. She is manipulating you and you really have nothing to lose, she already gave it away.


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## Jmon

How do you know that? I have no proof that it was more than one night. I will find out in time. but to assume that without no proff is not smart. I can speculate on that note, but found no evidence...
To suggest other wise There are no records of his phone numer in the phone call and text documents as far as I could look back other than what she told me. They commincated a lot iver the tike she confussed bit could not find anything outside of thsat. Trust me I looked all the way back to 2013.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Jmon said:


> she left the marriage when. She cheated... decided she wanted to come back....


Ahhhh this explains so much.


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## Vulcan2013

Jmon, you either are ignoring advice, or don't have the mindset to understand it. Please read the books people have recommended. The advice is wildly counter-intuitive, but it is solid. So I'll only offer 2 simple, non-scary pieces of advice:

1. Search here for the "cheater's script". It will really open your eyes. 

2. Instead of writing her an email or text, then posting it here, and being told how weak it is, post it here FIRST, and ask for editing advice. You'll get something very useful, and it won't be what you're fearing. 

Props for wanting to save your marriage and family, the advice is intended to help you achieve that. 

I had an intense, months long EA. my wife chased me, tried to be nice, wrote me long emails. About destroyed her, and fed the monster. People in affairs are just like crack addicts, and they lie, cheat, whatever. She had a long build up to the PA, and never veered away. "In hind site, it was obvious". Know what, it was obvious to her THE WHOLE TIME. but she didn't "see" it so she could continue, and still be a "good" person. 

If my BW had taken the advice on this site, 85% chance I would have folded (and 100% that I would have been furious til the high wore off). But if I left, she would have been spared years of pain, and living with a "prize" like me.


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## Jmon

That is what happened! What do you mean that explains alot... she broke the contract. wants a new one...... I can and will forgive her... people **** up.. everyone here knows that they all have felt the need to be with someone else. Some people give in tone temptation some don't. I have no choice but to forgive her because I made a decision to try to re-build the marriage. Am I saope to hold a grudge how is that productive...


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## Mr Blunt

> By Jmon
> The demands she met so far
> 
> Orderd the booKs
> 
> Gave me passwords
> 
> Unfriend-ed him and wife and blocked them on Facebook
> 
> Agreed to marriage counseling
> 
> Gave me acess to her phone
> 
> She has opened a much stronger line of communication... as I demanded
> 
> now she has a lot more to do...but people don't change instantly ....it will take some time and if she does not ...I will leave her and I have been getting all my ducks in a row in preparation for this.


Congratulations Jmon you have started to implement your plan! One other thing you may want to add is that there be absolutely no more bars and no more getting drunk by either of you.

I think the counselling is absolutely essential. You both need it but the one issue that you did not mention above is maybe one of the most important; see reprint of your quote below. Your wife resenting your innocent children is such a ginormous negative red flag. I can understand her being disappointed because you would not agree to another child but to take it out on innocent children is about as bad as her betraying her children, you, and the whole family. Your children will always be your children but she may not always be your wife. *DO NOT TOLERATE your wife harming your children in any way anymore!*



> She has held a lot of resentment to my kids and me because she wanted another kid. That is where most of our problems have come from.


You have decided to try and help your wife and maybe R so I am going to take that into consideration in my posts to you. I am sure you know that you are in way over your head and so is your wife. I am glad to see that she agreed to counsel because you and her by yourselves are not about to get your situation into a successful long term R. That is not a knock on you or her it is just the way a lot of broken marriages are.

Again I want to give you kudos for your plan and some of the actions that you and your wife have taken. You are trying to salvage a marriage and three children to remain as one family and that is admirable. You have come to this site to get advice and that is also admirable because you have taken a pretty good TAM beating and you are still here. Of course we can help if our advice fits your situation but you and your wife are definitely going to need professional help.

You seem to be getting a good understanding as to what is expected and you are planning for a successful R and your actions in case there is no successful R. I say this because of your words reprinted below. *If you are working towards getting yourself into a position that you are going to be fine with her or without her then you are a wise man.* 

I believe that there is a least some chance that you and your wife can R but to be honest you are going to have a very steep mountain to climb!


> Now she has a lot more to do...but people don't change instantly ....it will take some time and if she does not ...I will leave her and I have been getting all my ducks in a row in preparation for this.


*
Jmon, would you consider asking your counselor at some point this question?*
How much is Jmon fighting for this marriage to have a successful R is out of love, compromise, or fear?


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## TRy

Jmon said:


> Seems like I would be doing all the things that made her cheat on me.


 You did not make her cheat on you. You are both 50%-50% responsible for issues in your marriage. She is 100% responsibly for her affair. You not getting that, is why you are on the wrong path.


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> I told her the only reason I have not told dudes wife is because of her brother
> 
> She told me she already told her brother but did not want me to drag him into our dramma...shocked me


 OK so now that the reason that you have not told the other man's wife is gone, will you be telling the other man's wife, or will you come up with another excuse not to? Also, notice how your wife is calling all the shots?


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## bfree

TRy said:


> OK so now that the reason that you have not told the other man's wife is gone, will you be telling the other man's wife, or will you come up with another excuse not to? Also, notice how your wife is calling all the shots?


I agree that Jmon should tell the OMW. I don't agree that his wife is calling all the shots. If she follows through with everything she told Jmon then she is doing the things he has said he needs in order to try to work through this. A WS can only do so much and they usually need direction from the BS. I also think that her telling her brother was a positive step that she took on her own.

Jmon, I've tried to explain the reasons I felt certain things needed to be done, the primary purpose being to break you both out of limbo. Hopefully you have accomplished that goal and things can move forward toward healing. But make sure you follow through on your action plan and make sure your wife follows through on hers. Reading those books is a good start for both of you but listen to Elegirl and read surviving an affair first yourself. I'm pulling for you my friend.


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## BobSimmons

The man's made his mind up. Let him live.

No point in getting angry or frustrated people.


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## Jmon

Ok.... After talking to her brother whom is very good friends with this guy....my wife banged.... He thought is was a good idea that I did not tell his wife. He thinks it should be on him. I agree with him. I don't need to shake her out of the affair. I do believe she is not talking to him. I do think at this point she is starting to realize how stupid she was and in reality is having a hard dealing with it herself. She knows what she did was ****ed up.... And I do think that was part of her depression and why she still is pretty sad. I do think she is out of the "haze" of the affair.... But now out of the haze of dealing with me appropriately. Now I may still tell his wife.... But I am going to wait until my wife becomes more rational. Maybe she will decide to do it herself. That is what I am going to push for. But I can not make her do it. I do think the affair is over and has been for a while the last record I could find of her actually talking to him was mid February.... She has told me several times she is not in love with him and has no reason to want to talk to him anymore. At what point do I start believing her??? She has not left the house unless it has been for work or something for kids and the exception of the concert she bought ticket for way in advance of all of this and had several of her friends going with her. Now I do believe she was emotionally attached to guy and fought the urge to re-unite with him.... And I think in time she will admit that to me. She kind of did in her own way....but was not enough for me so in future conversations when she feels more comfortable (MC will help with that) I can understand that it is pretty hard to tell your husband that. Especially with her personality. I think getting rid of him and his wife on facebook was a huge step.... now she has nothing but memories and our conversations to remind her of their affair.... I do think at some point she may even become disgusted over it once her brain comes fully back to normal. because what she did was pretty low and she knows that. I asked for her passwords, and she said she will give them to me.... I did demand on the spot BC we where at home with the kids.... I will absolutely confirm she did as I requested in regards to facebook. As far as filing for a divorce.... I agree with you all! I think I should do it so show her I am serious... I am... If she does not change and become the women I married again... I will leave her she is not worth my time. But For my family's sake...... I am giving her the opportunity. If I did not believe she can change and had no hope I would have already made her leave. To save myself some money.... I think I am going to do what one poster here suggested.... Print out the divorce documents and fill them out... Leave them somewhere that I know she will see them at and hopefully she will not this strategy will no be counterproductive. But I have made it clear to her that I will walk. She is still pretty defensive... but is showing signs of improvement..... so before I do the divorce paper thing.... I am going to give her a chance to comply and change on her own. Trust me I will be all over her to be sure that she is taking the correct steps. She is showing improvement and slowly coming back to reality I can tell. So yes...... I will file for a divorce if she does not start changing in the near future. And GOD DAMN PEOPLE WILL YOU PLEASE QUIT SAYING **** THAT REFERS TO SEXUAL ACTS... IT IS DISRESPECTFUL. I am not a jealous person I am a big boy and completely understand what happens when two people ****........It is not the sex that bothers me so much.... it is her decisions and all allowing the emotional attachment to develop that angers me... not the sex. WTF PEOPLE! I am not in anyway worried about my bedroom ability at all. I keep telling you that is was more emotional for her than sexual. Yea ****ing is fun.... who does not like it... And I am sure a new piece of ass is very exciting.... If Did not have strong morals and a seance of personal responsibility in regards to what my conscious tells me what is right and wrong... I would try to bang a new women every week. Now.... I know my wife feels bad for what she did....... She was in a lot of pain... I have never seen her like that before in my life.... It was terrible. For over a month all she did was cry..... looked like she wanted to kill herself did't hardly talk to anyone in the house not even her own son. I had to do almost everything for him. And yes I think part of her depression was the the withdraw from the affair, and I think it was also shame and guilt and WTF did I do OMG. I think she is trying to forgive herself! She needs to... she will never be happy if she allows her actions to burden her for the rest of her life. I have to forgive her in order for her to forgive herself. But she needs to talk about it all and she is starting to!!!!! Thanks for all the help here!!!! You guys ROCK! Keep it coming! I have gotten some to notch advise in here! 
Cant wait until Monday for MC!!!  I think that is a huge step for us!


----------



## Jmon

And as far as this alpha beta male BS I hear on here. Let me tell you fellas something..... most women know their place or level of attractiveness they are at.... most of them will look for someone they feel like they have a shot with due to their perception of themselves. obviously they will gauck at very attractive men like us men do with women.... but in reality they know what their chances are what they want in a man. So number one.. there has to be physical attraction.... some hot women may like that shy guy in the corner.... I have seen it happen 1000 times.... some women like the aggressive male. My point is... every human is unique in their own way.... The number one thing a women will crave is confidence that the guy she is interested in portraying. Humans are not a wolf pack... Yes there are dominate men and they come in all shapes and sizes... I have always been a dominate male.... I don't ever show it unless it is necessary. Now when I was a teenager and in my early 20's that is a different story.... But trust me... I can take control whenever I feel like it. In regards to my wife... I don't think right now is the right time for extreme measures and I have told you all that. Now if it happens to come to that Point I will.... and It will simply end in me leaving and really getting a divorce because it will be her decisions that make me decide if she is still worth my time. I don't like playing games with people... and hiding my true intentions like filing for a fake divorce is playing games... I don't think I need to go there yet. And I honestly feel like If I have to go there...... Why even do it???? Sometimes you have to let people force their own hands in life. I can promise that if I have to let go... there will be no going back for me!


----------



## anchorwatch

One party dominance doesn't work well in a relationship. Leadership does. A leader creates an environment where his family can grow and flourish. 

Counseling will be a very central part of your process. Make sure you are comfortable with the MC. Don't be shy to ask questions about accreditations, history, methods and successes. 

Good luck.


BTW Jmon, paragraphs, please.


----------



## Jmon

Yes... The MC I chose came highly recommend from someone I trust....


----------



## Jmon

Oh And I have already spoken to her on the phone for some time to get a read on her.... And she seems like a good person... we will see!


----------



## kennethk

And don't let the MC turn this around to make YOU the problem that caused HER to give her heart to and Fvck someone another man.


----------



## wmn1

kennethk said:


> And don't let the MC turn this around to make YOU the problem that caused HER to give her heart to and Fvck someone another man.



I agree Kenneth, too many MCs on here story wise enabling rugsweeping.

If there is anyone I feel badly for on this thread, it's the OMW because if she doesn't know, she will continue to live a lie. And her husband will continue to cheat and he will never get his due. I wonder how many other marriages that POSOM is going to break up. It's Jmon's decision to expose or not but to me, it's always the right way to go.


----------



## cgiles

> Nice Guys are concerned about looking good and doing it "right." They are happiest when they are making others happy. Nice Guys avoid conflict like the plague and will go to great lengths to avoid upsetting anyone. In general, Nice Guys are peaceful and generous. "Nice Guys are especially concerned about pleasing women and being different from other men. In a nutshell, Nice Guys believe that if they are good, giving, and caring, they will in return be happy, loved, and fulfilled."


That's come from NMMNG. 

I think it's very close of Jmon's way of think. 

He lets his wife decides of how they will reconcile, it goes to disaster...


----------



## bfree

kennethk said:


> And don't let the MC turn this around to make YOU the problem that caused HER to give her heart to and Fvck someone another man.


Yes, that happens a lot. Jmon, there's nothing wrong with admitting your faults and you were responsible for half of the condition of the marriage. But you did nothing to make her cheat on you. That was 100% her choice and don't accept any blame for that. Make sure you establish that right away. Remember the counselor works for you. You dictate how those sessions go.


----------



## bfree

Jmon, leaving divorce paperwork out for her to see is a good way to show that you are serious. When you do talk to her tell her that you are ready to divorce if necessary but it is not what you want. And always remember ABC = always be calm. You get your point across better when you speak rationally and authoritatively than if you yell. I'm seeing good things here Jmon. Keep up the good work.


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## Jmon

cgiles said:


> That's come from NMMNG.
> 
> I think it's very close of Jmon's way of think.
> 
> He lets his wife decides of how they will reconcile, it goes to disaster...


Ok this is BS... you do not know me. Yes I am a nice guy... what is wrong with that. Now you are wrong... I have made my demands and they are being filled. This is not going the way she wants..... trust me. She does not want me to have all I have asked for. your generalities and assumptions are ignorant. You all here rely on books and other people's ideas and theories to assume an absolutes about life and relationships. The only thing absolute in your life is your mortality. People's emotions along with nature are always changing and as much as you think you can apply the small sample of people on here that have decided to share their stories and outcomes due to their actions are not absolutes. Be objective my friend.... question everything... don't let someone else make your mind up for you because it makes seance to you. Not all nice guys are made up the same way. Being caring, thoughtful of others and compassionate are vital virtues that most people don't posses in this world because they are ignorant and not objective. Geezzzz people some of you are idiots!


----------



## turnera

TRy said:


> OK so now that the reason that you have not told the other man's wife is gone, will you be telling the other man's wife, or will you come up with another excuse not to? Also, notice how your wife is calling all the shots?


Have you told OM's wife yet?


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Ok this is BS... you do not know me. Yes I am a nice guy... what is wrong with that. Now you are wrong... I have made my demands and they are being filled. This is not going the way she wants..... trust me. She does not want me to have all I have asked for. your generalities and assumptions are ignorant. You all here rely on books and other people's ideas and theories to assume an absolutes about life and relationships. The only thing absolute in your life is your mortality. People's emotions along with nature are always changing and as much as you think you can apply the small sample of people on here that have decided to share their stories and outcomes due to their actions are not absolutes. Be objective my friend.... question everything... don't let someone else make your mind up for you because it makes seance to you. Not all nice guys are made up the same way. Being caring, thoughtful of others and compassionate are vital virtues that most people don't posses in this world because they are ignorant and not objective. *Geezzzz people some of you are idiots!*


I know, right?!?










:lol: :rofl:


----------



## TRy

Jmon said:


> Ok.... After talking to her brother whom is very good friends with this guy....my wife banged.... He thought is was a good idea that I did not tell his wife. He thinks it should be on him. I agree with him.


 Ok... so on advice of your wife's brother that is "very good friends with this guy" that "banged" your wife, you will not be telling the other man's wife. This coupled with such advice also given by the other man's lover (your wife), is what you consider honest and unbiased advice that you will follow. Never mind that your wife's brother did not even tell you that he knew until after your wife told you that she had told him.

Has your wife's brother continued to be friends with "this guy" that "banged" your wife even after learning of the affair? Does your wife's brother's wife know? Who else has your wife told?


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## happyman64

Jmon said:


> True but it is not my place to get involved in their marriage I don't think. It is not my resposibility......I thought about this long and hard and don't think it is my responsibility. My wife told me and I am happy with that. If he tells his wife great....if not why should I care? It is their life not mine.


Jmon

You are totally wrong here. Your wife is a liar and cheater. The OM interfered in your life.

Now you need to cleanup her mess and his mess.

Tell the OMW. If the roles were reversed wouldnt you want to know?

And by exposing the affair the OMW can keep tabs on her wayward husband while you only have to watch your wife.

Wakeup and smell the coffee.

HM


----------



## happyman64

Jmon said:


> Ok I agree with some of everything a bit here. I sent her affair partner a email... here it is.... I think it is enough to scare him off.
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I know strange. Just to let you know I have all of your information and Liz's as well. I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife. Now, Kristen is ****ed up in the head right now. Women get much more emotionally involved in their affairs than men do. *I know you are paranoid and having the thought of me exposing this whole thing is in the back of your mind. It has taken all of my self control to not blow this thing wide open. But I also do not want to inflict the pain I am going through on anyone else. The thought and reality of losing your family is not fun. It hurts... I know you do not want that. But your wife should know how big of a piece of **** you are for disregarding everything she has ever done for you and giving her life to you. Enough said. Now Kristen says she wants a second chance and wants to be with me and wants to work out our problems and our marriage "so she says" she is still living with me so I guess I have to believe her or else she would be gone by now. I don't know if we will be successful, but we are trying. Now the reason I reached out you is because I don't want you talking to her ever again. Regardless of what happens between Kristen and I , you need to work on your marriage and your family. You obviously don't have that much respect for your wife in the first place, but she loves you and is the mother of you children, you should have no reason what-so-ever to be talking to Kristen. All of us **** up and should use our mistakes as lessons to guide us forward in life. I suggest you do the same. Trust me at first I thought the best way to protect my family was to expose all of this, for one, you would be so busy trying to save your marriage that you would have not time for my wife what-so-ever. But I am a reasonable man and want to spare you the pain. I have no idea how long you two have been ****ing around. It would be nice to know. Kristen has not told me very much. *And it really does make a difference to me as long as it is over. I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage. If you love your wife, treat her with the respect and dignity she deserves. Just for your own good and Kristen's don't ever talk to her again! thanks your cooperation is appreciated. As long as you two are over... regardless of what happens between me and Kristen, I have no reason to expose all of this. So don't worry. I am not threatening you, just attempting to ensure you two are done and that there is no more contact between you two what-so-ever.*
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!*
> 
> 
> What do you all think.....I want to spare my wife any further imbareisment if I can. Sorry that is not a sign of weaknes. it is a sign of respect.
> 
> 
> .


Wow. Now I understand why your wife no longer respects you.....


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> You all here rely on books and other people's ideas and theories to assume an absolutes about life and relationships.
> 
> as much as you think you can apply the* small sample* of people on here that have decided to share their stories and outcomes due to their actions are not absolutes.
> 
> Being caring, thoughtful of others and compassionate are vital virtues that *most people don't possess in this world because they are ignorant* and not objective.


Jmon, look at how many posts I have. Here and on other forums, I have helped THOUSANDS of men just like you. For 15 years I've been doing this. I've seen it all. And I've seen the pattern. It's psychological and it cannot be denied - women WANT/NEED strong men. Men who won't put up with crap. If their man is NOT strong, they will badmouth him, ignore him, disrespect him, or leave him, and sometimes even cheat on him. It's basic psychology. THAT is what we're trying to get you to see. 

And please don't misunderstand - a strong man is not a MEAN man. The alpha male we keep talking about from NMMNG is strong, yes, but he is ALSO kind, thoughtful, and compassionate. He simply doesn't accept his wife cheating on him - he's willing to LOSE her rather than sit there and wait for her to notice he's still there. THAT is an alpha male. Which you'd know if you would have read the book as we asked.

I assume by what you write that you are saying WE are ignorant and YOU are not? Well, I just showed you that you are no less ignorant because you have a misconception about what we were talking about. I don't say that to hurt you, just to show you that it's obvious you want to do what you want to do - nice her, with a LITTLE bit of doing what we're saying but without having to admit that what we're saying works. That's cool. If that's what you need to do to feel good, that's cool. Just try to see that we DO know what works because we've helped thousands of people in the exact same situation. Is it a guarantee? Of course not. As you said, everyone's different. But there IS a pattern to cheating and a pattern to what works with cheaters. 

Which you're already seeing by starting to enact the firm boundaries we suggested.


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> The only thing absolute in your life is your mortality.


And taxes...


----------



## wmn1

Jmon said:


> Ok this is BS... you do not know me. Yes I am a nice guy... what is wrong with that. Now you are wrong... I have made my demands and they are being filled. This is not going the way she wants..... trust me. She does not want me to have all I have asked for. your generalities and assumptions are ignorant. You all here rely on books and other people's ideas and theories to assume an absolutes about life and relationships. The only thing absolute in your life is your mortality. People's emotions along with nature are always changing and as much as you think you can apply the small sample of people on here that have decided to share their stories and outcomes due to their actions are not absolutes. Be objective my friend.... question everything... don't let someone else make your mind up for you because it makes seance to you. Not all nice guys are made up the same way. Being caring, thoughtful of others and compassionate are vital virtues that most people don't posses in this world because they are ignorant and not objective. Geezzzz people some of you are idiots!


no we don't base everything on books and theories, we base things on the thousands of years of experience on this board in dealing with infidelity firsthand and seeing through our own experiences and the experiences of others what works and what doesn't. We have also seen the lives of people fall apart when they ignore us but on occasion have seen them survive, sometimes in spite of their own actions


----------



## wmn1

happyman64 said:


> Jmon
> 
> You are totally wrong here. Your wife is a liar and cheater. The OM interfered in your life.
> 
> Now you need to cleanup her mess and his mess.
> 
> Tell the OMW. If the roles were reversed wouldnt you want to know?
> 
> And by exposing the affair the OMW can keep tabs on her wayward husband while you only have to watch your wife.
> 
> Wakeup and smell the coffee.
> 
> HM


I agree Happy. It's funny how it's his wife and the OM's fault in what happened to Jmon's marriage but it is the fault of only the OM in what happened to his.

Jmon's wife was complicit in damaging the other marriage (or potentially doing so when it is exposed). OMW may be a good decent human being. I rue the day where she finds out 10, 15 years down the line and is visiting us here talking about how bad her situation is when she's just entering the twilight of her life.

OM needs to get punished. I know many disagree with exposure = punishment. It is exposure = breaking up the affairs. However, until the OM gets his, how much damage is he going to cause ? The only one who can stop that ? Jmon or OMW. Jmon also feels it is ok to give a pass here. It's not. His wife is trying to get him to block exposure for whatever reasons we can assume. I still think she's protecting the guy. Who is going to protect OMW and other future BS from the POSOM ???


----------



## wmn1

TRy said:


> Ok... so on advice of your wife's brother that is "very good friends with this guy" that "banged" your wife, you will not be telling the other man's wife. This coupled with such advice also given by the other man's lover (your wife), is what you consider honest and unbiased advice that you will follow. Never mind that your wife's brother did not even tell you that he knew until after your wife told you that she had told him.
> 
> Has your wife's brother continued to be friends with "this guy" that "banged" your wife even after learning of the affair? Does your wife's brother's wife know? Who else has your wife told?



agreed TRy. Agreed


----------



## movin on

Jmon
Just read your thread. My wife also had a one night stand. When I found out I was willing to divorce but she ask for a second chance, three years later we are still together. 

How did I do it? 
I did the exact opposite of what you are doing. I guarantee you the om is showing his friends that email you sent and telling them about banging your wife and you won't do anything about it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart

movin on said:


> Jmon
> Just read your thread. My wife also had a one night stand. When I found out I was willing to divorce but she ask for a second chance, three years later we are still together.
> 
> How did I do it?
> I did the exact opposite of what you are doing. *I guarantee you the om is showing his friends that email you sent and telling them about banging your wife and you won't do anything about it*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


emailing other man? You should confront the POSOM to his face at his house in front of his wife. These OM are cowards. Theirs a thread on loveshack about a guy who confronted the suspected OM at the guys house in front of his wife. The POS was crapping his pants so much that he had to grab a hammer. The BH held his ground and bluffed a confession out of the guy. That's what you need to do. 

No emails, no calling brothers, just handling this yourself. That will up your wifes opinion of you. Not that you should stay with her.


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## Jmon

oK THE MORE i THOUGHT ABOUT IT.... THE MORE i UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ALL ARE RIGHT. i SENT MY A DIVORCE DECREE TO HER TODAY AND SENT THAT **** HEAD A EMAIL AND TOLD HIM TO TELL HIS WIFE BEFORE I DO SO HE HAS A BETTER CHANCE AT SAVING HIS MARRIAGE


NOW HERE COMES THE DIVORCE...


----------



## anchorwatch

What happened to your plan?

You couldn't wait till Monday's MC session? 

Did you let the flow of raw emotions set you off?

Rule #1, never make a life-changing decision when your emotions have got the best of you. Especially anger.


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## Jmon

I just realized you all where right... she thinks she has control... she just lost it. And I would go confront piece of **** dude but he lives 4 hours away!!!


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## Jmon

It is a bluff like you all suggested. It is working...got my sister invloved as well.... she has been blowing my phone up and I have been ignoring her! Told her I would be home later and just wanted to enjoy my kids and would talk to her about the divorce some other time... so far she has been blowing me up with text's and calling me. I just had to process the information and you guys where right the only way to get her to change is by taking actions....now she thinks I mean business. so the tables are turned I will keep you all updated!


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> It is a bluff like you all suggested. It is working...got my sister invloved as well.... she has been blowing my phone up and I have been ignoring her! Told her I would be home later and just wanted to enjoy my kids and would talk to her about the divorce some other time... so far she has been blowing me up with text's and calling me. I just had to process the information and you guys where right the only way to get her to change is by taking actions....now she thinks I mean business. so the tables are turned I will keep you all updated!


Here's the thing... she can't think that it's a bluff. In fact, *IT CAN'T BE A BLUFF.*

She has to KNOW that, unless she makes a change in both her attitude and her level of commitment to your marriage, your marriage WILL be brought to a very swift and unceremonious end.

Additionally, should she fail or refuse to make said changes, you have to push through w/ the divorce.

Period.


----------



## tom67

Amen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FscIgtDJFXg


----------



## EleGirl

happy as a clam said:


> And taxes...


and death


----------



## Jmon

Oh there is no dought if she does not change I will divorce her.... I am not living the way we where ever agiain. I did call my lawyer Today....he gave a a divorce decree and I sent it to her and told to fill out her portion and we would talk about it later..... and guess who got flowers and a nice card when he got home! Me..... you all where right she was playing games... I am done with it. I talked to her brother today... Told him.... and told him to tell his friend to tell his wife.before I do and confirmed that with an email to the piece of ****.... copied my wife on the email.... and wow I get flowered lol!!!! You guys and gals where right!!!!!!!!! Thanks! told her today I am Not living her lie and told her to **** off.... told her to leave me alone..... Ect ect... the card she got me and what she wrote actually made me cry..... I went outside and she followed me tried to give me a hug..... I told her to leave me alone and Waled away..... not that I didn't want the hug.... but this is what she has been doing to me...now tables are turned thanks to all of your advise!!!


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## happyman64

Now keep the tables turned.

Be the man and control the outcome of your actions.

You just showed your wife her first consequences. And she reacted.

Now get her to think about what she wants in life and who she wants to spend her lie with.

You do the same.

And do not be afraid to divorce if she reverts right back to that fence sitting position.

I always say in most cases that the BS has to cleanup the mess the WS makes.

But no matter what the WS has to get engaged, be truly remorseful and want to actively participate in the marriage. They also need to communicate with the BS in an honest, forthright manner.

And you need to respond in kind.

Good work today. And if the OM does not disclose the Affair to his wife by Monday then do him the courtesy.

HM


----------



## just got it 55

Jmon said:


> So basically the advise I got from here is to file for a divirce, tell dudes wife, and act like I don't give a **** about her when she told me she cheated because she did not feel loved? Sounds counterproductive? Seems like I would be doing all the things that made her cheat on me.


Jmon it sounds counterintuitive but think of it this way

If the Captian of the Titanic actually increased the speed of the ship they woud have likely missed the iceburg

Because of the undersized rutters

Follow the prescribed advice

55


ETA: well this is 20/20 hindsight now but

We told you so

Stay the course and save your family if that is your goal

55

55


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> It is a bluff like you all suggested. It is working...got my sister invloved as well.... she has been blowing my phone up and I have been ignoring her! Told her I would be home later and just wanted to enjoy my kids and would talk to her about the divorce some other time... so far she has been blowing me up with text's and calling me. I just had to process the information and you guys where right the only way to get her to change is by taking actions....now she thinks I mean business. so the tables are turned I will keep you all updated!


Amazing how well it works. What we tell you to do.

The thing is, you have ONE CHANCE to get her back - to stay committed to divorcing her if she doesn't toe the line and start acting like a respectable wife.


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> Oh there is no dought if she does not change I will divorce her.... I am not living the way we where ever agiain. I did call my lawyer Today....he gave a a divorce decree and I sent it to her and told to fill out her portion and we would talk about it later..... and guess who got flowers and a nice card when he got home! Me..... you all where right she was playing games... I am done with it. I talked to her brother today... Told him.... and told him to tell his friend to tell his wife.before I do and confirmed that with an email to the piece of ****.... copied my wife on the email.... and wow I get flowered lol!!!! You guys and gals where right!!!!!!!!! Thanks! told her today I am Not living her lie and told her to **** off.... told her to leave me alone..... Ect ect... the card she got me and what she wrote actually made me cry..... I went outside and she followed me tried to give me a hug..... I told her to leave me alone and Waled away..... not that I didn't want the hug.... but this is what she has been doing to me...now tables are turned thanks to all of your advise!!!


Yep. Basic psychology.


----------



## cgiles

Jmon, I wanted to reply by answering to your answer line by line, but I will resume what I wanted to say :

We are all wired in the same way in our brain, even if we would like not to. But in the same time it allow to things like psychiatry to be effective. 

That's why we can rely on some books for help us to fix our issue. As our guts, lungs, heart, liver, bladder, ects works in the same way from one person to another, our brains works in the same way from someone to another one, it's a mix of fat, neurone and chemicals products. 

"Nice guy" issue have a lot in common with false self/true self issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_self_and_false_self and avoid personality disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder .

Yes I question everything, that's how I find out about NMMNG and it helped me. 

And yes I hope I'm an idiot, because it means I have so much to learn yet, to discoved, and find out, and it allows me to say and do stupid things 

Now look at your wife reactions as soon you stopped to act like a NG and stand for yourself by taking decisions, and making real consequence happens.

Did she runned away from you ? 

No, she stopped to treat you like one of her child/stepchild, she stopped to ignore you, because of her depression.

As soon you stopped to be granted for her, she feared to lose you and started to show she cares for you.

I'm really sorry it happens like this, because like you I wanted to believe "Being caring, thoughtful of others and compassionate" are what we need for be respected, but it's not enough, for being respected we need to stand for ourself, even if it means to a be cold sometimes.


Now you need to continue on your launch. 

If you see she begins to change, by her actions, like going in therapy, cutting this guy out of her life, exposing herself, giving you full access to her social accounts, and electronic devices, and shows real remorse, you can put on hold the divorce. 
Don't expect her to do it by herself, if she asks you what you need for consider reconciliation, give her this list.- It's the same one you can find there : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html -

Got NMMNG : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf and read it. It is free.

And start to apply the 180lists : The 180 | AFFAIRCARE . 

More you will move on, less you will appear granted, more you will be attractive to your wife and women in general. 

Your daughter will respect you, your sons too.


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## wmn1

good job, Jmon. 

Action produces. Even if you divorce or stay together, you now have and deserve control.

It was a big step for you to take but it is the correct one.

Keep us posted


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## Remains

Guys, you do realise this is a rosie or a drey (with numbers after....that was his name wasn't it?) don't you? I mean, really?!!


----------



## Chaparral

This should help. Print this out and go over it with her. Observe her closely to see if she gets it.


*The Wayward Spouse Instructions*


*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.*


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## ShootMePlz!

Just curious......how will you know the OM's wife is actually told? He could just respond using her email? They share a how computer most likely. Seems like you keep avoiding telling the wife yourself.


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## Chaparral

Remains said:


> Guys, you do realise this is a rosie or a drey (with numbers after....that was his name wasn't it?) don't you? I mean, really?!!


Its a moot point. Right now there are over four hundred folks viewing this section.


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## Chaparral

ShootMePlz! said:


> Just curious......how will you know the OM's wife is actually told? He could just respond using her email? They share a how computer most likely. Seems like you keep avoiding telling the wife yourself.


One thing is certain, he will tell his wife a lot of BS and pretend OP is a nut ball. .....................if he tells her at all. Of course it doesn't hurt to let him squirm a while before OP gets in touch with his wife to confirm the situation.


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## Jmon

What is a rosie... or a drey?


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## bfree

Jmon said:


> What is a rosie... or a drey?


I'm curious about that as well.


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## honcho

bfree said:


> I'm curious about that as well.


Weren't those posters who threads became creative writing projects more than anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jmon

Not the case here.... so now I have to question the past and the future is the term always a cheater relevent? Now I have to question our entire relationship.


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## emyeele

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Jmon,
> 
> Although your intention is good and you are beginning to see the light, this letter is terrible for quite a few reasons. Please do not send it.
> 
> For one thing, it is way to long. You need to be succint in order for her to understand your basic message, which should be: start being open and honest with me or our marriage is over.
> 
> For another, the tone starts out angry and snide and ends up emotional and pleading. Neither of these is appropriate for helping her to understand and accept your basic message (as stated above). Rather, the tone throughout should be one of clarity and resolve. You want her to perceive you as someone who knows what he wants and who will do whatever needs to be done to get it.
> 
> A third problem, as Elegirl noted, is that you don't tell her what you want her to do. For example, you don't ever say that she needs to end her affair. In fact, you invite her to continue it. Nor do you demand honesty from her, or transparency. You tell her that she needs to "get help" but you don't say what kind of help she needs to get. Basically, you give her no road map for how to save her marriage.
> 
> But the worst thing about the letter is that it is a letter. The fact that you don't have the courage to say these things to her face but instead need to send it to her in writing so that she can read it in private indicates (and she will interpret it as meaning) that you are a total coward when it comes to confronting her for her bad behavior. Of course, that is the message you have been sending all along so this won't surprise her. It will simply reinforce her perception of you as a weak man whom she can ignore and control. If she is smart, she will tell you how wonderful your letter was and will say some other nice things to throw you off track and continue to stonewall you and, in all likelihood, you will accept this -- for now.
> 
> But you will not put up with her behaving like this forever. Eventually, you will become fed up with her and will tell her to her face that you intend to end your marriage. The question is, will you do this while there is still some chance of her changing for the better, or will you wait until the two of you have lost all respect for each other and no longer want to be together?
> 
> That's the most important decision you need to make and, the longer you put it off, the less likely that your marriage will survive.


I was looking for this email but couldnt find it in the long list of posts.. but I just saw it and yes, indeed. Jmon is going about this the wrong way. Please get counseling before making things worse. This email would not have helped at all. At least get someone else's opinion before emailing it. Please review the sources I pmed you Jmon.

God bless.


----------



## emyeele

Jmon said:


> Oh there is no dought if she does not change I will divorce her.... I am not living the way we where ever agiain. I did call my lawyer Today....he gave a a divorce decree and I sent it to her and told to fill out her portion and we would talk about it later..... and guess who got flowers and a nice card when he got home! Me..... you all where right she was playing games... I am done with it. I talked to her brother today... Told him.... and told him to tell his friend to tell his wife.before I do and confirmed that with an email to the piece of ****.... copied my wife on the email.... and wow I get flowered lol!!!! You guys and gals where right!!!!!!!!! Thanks! told her today I am Not living her lie and told her to **** off.... told her to leave me alone..... Ect ect... the card she got me and what she wrote actually made me cry..... I went outside and she followed me tried to give me a hug..... I told her to leave me alone and Waled away..... not that I didn't want the hug.... but this is what she has been doing to me...now tables are turned thanks to all of your advise!!!


STOP BEING A LITTLE GIRL AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FAMILY. Don't for one instant get prideful because she is trying. You cried because YOU CARE. The last thing you want to do is begin playing HEAD GAMES with each other. That is exactly what you're doing by pushing her off. Be an adult here and seek counseling together or you will for sure regret something that can be fixed. You are not the only couple that's gone through this. It is not irreparable.

You can still take a strong stance but still let her know you willing to counseling together be it that she cuts all ties with this man, but at the same time let her know you promise nothing. Whatever you do, be respectful by all means.


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## thummper

I really don't think that insulting the OP and calling him "a little girl" is going to help much, do you?  I would refer you to your comment about being respectful.


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## lenzi

Jmon said:


> I am reaching out to you because obviously you ****ed my wife.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck in life!!! good luck with your marriage.
> .


I enjoyed reading your email to the other man. The parts quoted above are my favorite in the entire exchange.

I mean, here's a guy who F%cked your wife, and here you are wishing him the best of luck in life.

When it comes to taking the high road, you rock.


----------



## EleGirl

Jmon said:


> Not the case here.... so now I have to question the past and the future is the term always a cheater relevent? Now I have to question our entire relationship.


No the staying "once a cheater, always a cheater" doe not always apply.

Some people are serial cheaters. It's usually something they do their entire life as it's part of who they are.

From what I have read, most people who cheat only cheat once. They learn from making such a horrible choice and do not repeat.


----------



## carmen ohio

Jmon said:


> oK THE MORE i THOUGHT ABOUT IT.... THE MORE i UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ALL ARE RIGHT. i SENT MY A DIVORCE DECREE TO HER TODAY AND SENT THAT **** HEAD A EMAIL AND TOLD HIM TO TELL HIS WIFE BEFORE I DO SO HE HAS A BETTER CHANCE AT SAVING HIS MARRIAGE
> 
> 
> NOW HERE COMES THE DIVORCE...





Jmon said:


> I just realized you all where right... she thinks she has control... she just lost it. And I would go confront piece of **** dude but he lives 4 hours away!!!





Jmon said:


> It is a bluff like you all suggested. It is working...got my sister invloved as well.... she has been blowing my phone up and I have been ignoring her! Told her I would be home later and just wanted to enjoy my kids and would talk to her about the divorce some other time... so far she has been blowing me up with text's and calling me. I just had to process the information and you guys where right the only way to get her to change is by taking actions....now she thinks I mean business. so the tables are turned I will keep you all updated!





Jmon said:


> Oh there is no dought if she does not change I will divorce her.... I am not living the way we where ever agiain. I did call my lawyer Today....he gave a a divorce decree and I sent it to her and told to fill out her portion and we would talk about it later..... and guess who got flowers and a nice card when he got home! Me..... you all where right she was playing games... I am done with it. I talked to her brother today... Told him.... and told him to tell his friend to tell his wife.before I do and confirmed that with an email to the piece of ****.... copied my wife on the email.... and wow I get flowered lol!!!! You guys and gals where right!!!!!!!!! Thanks! told her today I am Not living her lie and told her to **** off.... told her to leave me alone..... Ect ect... the card she got me and what she wrote actually made me cry..... I went outside and she followed me tried to give me a hug..... I told her to leave me alone and Waled away..... not that I didn't want the hug.... but this is what she has been doing to me...now tables are turned thanks to all of your advise!!!


Jmon,

It is great that you have seen the light, but now comes the hard part -- trying to reconcile with her or, if that doesn't work, ending your marriage (just deciding which to do will be difficult).

I strongly recommend that you keep posting here. The wealth of knowledge about both subjects (R and D) on TAM is incredible. If you ask for it take heed, it will save you a lot of grief.

Wishing you the best.


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## lenzi

Jmon said:


> . I did call my lawyer Today....he gave a a divorce decree and I sent it to her


Wow that's fast. Either your lawyer is really good- or really bad and you're his only client.


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## Jmon

No the lawyer is really good. He handed my custody battle with my kids thst I won 8 years ago. We had out first day of marriage counseling..... and the counsleor really just focused on her and saw some major issues right away... as far as the beginning of out problems... thqt started 6 years ago. My wife is starting to open up more and while showing resentment to talk she is talking now and a major impotlrovemnt. Her attitude total changed once she saw I was dead serious about the divorce. our marriage has been pretty complicated in regards to her step children and her desire to have a bother child of her own. she has cut all ties with other dude.... at least I can't find proof of any... and she does seem like she is out of the affair haze. Swears it was only one night.... and she has bmvener cheated before. We will find out If she is lie in over time. I told her we can burn the divorce decree tonight...as a symbol of 100% commitment back to each other. She also reserved the book after the a fair as Mariah counselr suggested and has agreed to read it together...so we have a long road..... ahead... but I have decided to stop the emails..ect..... thanks for all the help and any advise moving forward from this crew would be great! You all have already helped me tremdously! Keep it coming!


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## BetrayedDad

Jmon said:


> NOW HERE COMES THE DIVORCE...


Good.


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## honcho

Jmon said:


> No the lawyer is really good. He handed my custody battle with my kids thst I won 8 years ago. We had out first day of marriage counseling..... and the counsleor really just focused on her and saw some major issues right away... as far as the beginning of out problems... thqt started 6 years ago. My wife is starting to open up more and while showing resentment to talk she is talking now and a major impotlrovemnt. Her attitude total changed once she saw I was dead serious about the divorce. our marriage has been pretty complicated in regards to her step children and her desire to have a bother child of her own. she has cut all ties with other dude.... at least I can't find proof of any... and she does seem like she is out of the affair haze. Swears it was only one night.... and she has bmvener cheated before. We will find out If she is lie in over time. I told her we can burn the divorce decree tonight...as a symbol of 100% commitment back to each other. She also reserved the book after the a fair as Mariah counselr suggested and has agreed to read it together...so we have a long road..... ahead... but I have decided to stop the emails..ect..... thanks for all the help and any advise moving forward from this crew would be great! You all have already helped me tremdously! Keep it coming!


I would not burn the divorce papers just yet. You had one MC session. You have a long road ahead of you, that is correct. Much more than you realize.


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## Jmon

yes I agree! But I have a pdf....so it really is not going anywhere.... but seems counterproductive to hang it over her head... when she says she is committed going forward.


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## Jmon

Any advise on what I should do....and what to expect from her in regards to the reconsilation would be great! please keep true comment to yourselves in regards crap like std's ect..... kinda rude!


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## turnera

Wife, this is your one and only chance to change my mind from divorce. You have ruined my trust and as such, you have to earn it back. If you don't WANT to earn it back, that's fine, I'm prepared to divorce. Totally your choice. And here's what I'm going to need from you:
All passwords to all electronics you have so that I can verify you're not cheating
For you to hand over your electronics any time I ask - without giving me grief - so I can verify, for at least the next year or two because that's how long it will take me to stop thinking you're cheating.
For you to continue in MC and also to be in IC to figure out where the ability to cheat came from, for at least the next year.
For you to communicate with me without arguing; if we feel like we need to argue, we will agree to postpone the discussion until we can talk without arguing.
For you to write a No Contact letter the the OM that you will hand over to ME so I can approve it and I will send it myself - you will also provide me his contact information. I will not contact him other than to send this NC letter.
If you don't want to do any of these things, that's fine, we'll file for divorce. And if you reach a point where you stop doing any of these things that are essential for ME, I also will take that as your acknowledgment that we're done, and I will file for divorce. 

Just let me know. This week.

And Jmon, you SERIOUSLY need to be in IC for yourself, by yourself, to learn to be a stronger man. I don't know what made you so weak, but she will never stay with you if you don't change. For instance, the ONLY time she's come back to you through all this is when you DID SHOW STRENGTH by moving to divorce. Start working on yourself.


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## musk-rat

I would also recommend IC. It helped me greatly to make the decision to finally file and get myself in a better place.


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## honcho

Jmon said:


> yes I agree! But I have a pdf....so it really is not going anywhere.... but seems counterproductive to hang it over her head... when she says she is committed going forward.


Its not counterproductive and its not hanging it over her head. Its to remind BOTH of you what you have to lose. 

Right now you know her word cant be trusted, yet she "says" she is committed going forward. Her actions will tell you if that is true or not. Your spouse avoids problems, she utilized anger as a diversion from what it sounds like as she doesn't want to be held accountable. 

You yourself wrote somewhere you felt the marriage hasn't been good for a couple of years. You have two problems, first working thru the betrayal of the affair and second whatever else was going on needs to be addressed. 

Your both going to have to take long hard honest looks at each other and the relationship.


----------



## Jmon

yeap! I really know what the issues are and the marraige really ended 4 years ago....we where close to a diVorce. But things got better between us....for about 2 years. This last year has been a rough one and the affair topped it off and ended it. we have talked about the underlying issues.... and she has at least told me she is willing to changer and figure out what her problem really is. The counselr really did a great job in regards to going straight to her past and childhood to identify some problems in just a short period of time. So I am really optomisitic. as far as me working in why I let things get so bad.... that is a factor of time responsibilities and of course my wife's issues in dealing with conflict. Sometimes you get worn down.


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## turnera

Or you're just not an alpha male and you let her take control.


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## Mr Blunt

> Jmon
> My wife is starting to open up more and while showing resentment to talk she is talking now and a major improvement. Her attitude total changed once she saw I was dead serious about the divorce.
> 
> I told her we can burn the divorce decree tonight...as a symbol of 100% commitment back to each other.
> 
> By Honcho
> I would not burn the divorce papers just yet. You had one MC session. You have a long road ahead of you, that is correct. Much more than you realize.
> 
> By Jmon
> yes I agree! But I have a pdf....so it really is not going anywhere.... but seems counterproductive to hang it over her head... when she says she is committed going forward.



Jmon
It seems like the chances of an R are looking better than all the weeks prior. As you have stated she is going to counselling and talking now. Here are my thoughts on your last several posts.

*You wife is making progress, mostly due to the divorce papers, and you are so relieved that some progress is being made that you are acting like you are rug sweeping a few things*. What you maybe rug sweeping is that you so want your R to work that you are so eager to appease your wife that you are not as attentive to what has worked so far. You are rug sweeping the fact that your wife needs a strong incentive to do the tough things that are needed for the R to work.


*Your wife is very weak and cannot be trusted to do the hard stuff without some help.* That help is in the form of consequences and one of those consequences is the divorce. I know that you can print out another copy from your pdf but that is not the point. The point is that she thinks that the divorce is off the table and that removes one strong arm that will help her do the hard parts.


I know you are thrilled that you are making progress but this R is going to be in terms of years not weeks. *Your wife has been very obstinate for the last several months and a few days of making progress is hardly any reason to diminish the incentives that your wife has to overcome her very weak emotion and mental state.*


By what you have posted your wife has some real serious issues to overcome. *Her attitude, her betrayal, and the fact that she resents your innocent children because she cannot get her way are some very heavy issues.* On top of that you tell us that the counselor has discovered that they go back to her childhood. I want to encourage you but I think that you are so happy that progress is being made that you are subconsciously rug sweeping the tough incentives that are needed.


Your wife’s boundaries and wisdom are weak and she has demonstrated that to you in the past. She goes to bars without you, and gets drunk in the company of other men. She has very weak boundaries or no wisdom of both. *Those are not going to change in a few weeks nor are the fact that she resentments your innocent children. *


You have made some progress in the super Bowl of R but you and your wife have only played in this super bowl for a few days. You and your wife are going to have to go 100% for years to get to your goals and you both are going to need incentives.


----------



## dgtal

You wont have any chance of R until you PERSONALLY tell the OMW period. And remember, the relationship will not be back to normal until year 2020. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel

Man how did I miss this thread?? ****ing cringe worthy. I found my self wincing at pretty much every post by the OP. This should be pinned and the title changed to "How to Make Every Mistake Possible When Dealing With a Cheating Wife"


File for divorce, get some counseling for yourself.


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## Jmon

Ok,


Taking head to all the advise here. Now... the divorce decree burning was a good thing I think. She knows, and I have told her, that for now the divorce is off because she is making progress in regards to her self improvement. However.... I have also told her that she needs to change a lot of things about herself and get back to the person I married or there will be a divorce. She knows that. I let her burn it the fire place... Told her think hard and long about it... told her that if I catch her in one lie... if she does shows me any grief for wanting to look at her phone... or is reluctant to answer any of my questions honestly I will not hesitate to divorce her. She looked me in the eyes... and promised me no more lies... she was sorry... said she knows it will take a long while for her to earn my trust back. But is willing to do whatever it takes. Now..... I do love my wife and my family, and yes... the fact that I see a good chance here to build a stronger marriage is uplifting. Now I know 100% the affair is her fault. But there where underlying issues in the marriage that caused her to sway. Partly my responsibility. Now.... I am not sticking up for her what-so-ever. We are both responsible for the issues of our marriage. This last year of this marriage I ignored a lot of issues with us and was doing a lot of rug-sweeping myself. I have reasons why... I let things get as bad as I did. Now there is no justification from myself not to step up and do my best to try to fix our issues. Life can get away from you really quick especially when you are as busy as a person as myself. For years now almost every second of my day was filled, my son and daughter are very athletic and have played competitive sports for years. Competitive sports are very time consuming. I started a on-line business....( I have set to the side now in order to focus on this marriage) My daughter is well on her to receive a full college scholarship for soccer and probably could get one for softball. She is being recruited. Now not only have I taken the burden of diving my kids all over gods earth so they can fulfill their talents, I also managed and coached several teams over the years. Softball, baseball and football for 10 years now!!!! And that does not count my other son.. he not yet plays a competitive sports but is in boy scouts... plays basketball and baseball.... oh and karate. So basically my life for years has completely revolved around them.... not my marriage. We should have started going to marriage counseling years ago. It would have saved us a ton of grief. Again I am not making excuses here, but want to give the critics some more incite on my life. Now I don't know about all of you here, but i don't think some of your understand how hard it has been to manage, from my standpoint, this family. Also...... Blended families are hard to deal with in the first place, and my wife allowed herself to become weak over the years due to not getting what she felt like she deserved out of the marriage. There is nothing I can do about that now.. But I could have changed to course of the marriage if I myself did not allow it to happen. But I did not. That my friends....... is my fault. Now dealing with her infidelity will be hard and it will take time... But some of you are suggesting that I am a weak male yada yada yada... because I have taken a bit more of a passive role here, or it has not really been that hard for me to forgive her. I am mad... and I wish she should not have allowed herself to do what she did.... But in reality... she has made progress, and a commitment to becoming a better person. And I was making progress with her before I threw the divorce in her face.... She was opening up more and talking more and agreed to my demands before I sent her the decree. Now... I decided to show her that the divorce was real and I meant it because I was fed up, and I knew I could not handle the pace of her development..and I was about to kick her out! Yes, sending her the decree sped things up and it also allowed me to gauge her true feelings to-wards working on the marriage... Obviously if she did not want to stay in the marriage she would have said fine... lets do it. So yea... I know this will take time... and I know there are no guarantees that our attempt at rebuilding our marriage... And I am not rug sweeping anymore. I know we have one shot at this and that is why I keep coming back here for advise. Thank you to the ones here that have been constructive and not RUDE. Now I am going to make sure his wife finds out... but I am going to keep harassing him and try to force his own confession... (I am having fun with it.. the squirming he is doing right now is priceless to me!!!!!!) . He may have told her... I really have no idea of knowing. And I won't until I contact his wife. I asked my wife if he has contacted her since I sent him the last email letting him know I would tell his wife. She said he had not. Now Hopefully she is not lieing... I have no evidence to suggest otherwise. So... yes I am happy... things are improving... am I rug sweeping.... I don't think so! My life will improve either with her or with out her. That is how I feel.


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## Jasel

Good luck...


----------



## manticore

Jmon said:


> Ho are you this morning? I hope better!
> 
> Please don't ever tell me you think I hate you again. I do not. You need to really try hard to use your logical side of brain now.
> Reason you should know by now that I love you.
> 
> 1) I am still with you
> 2) I am not out trolling looking for revenge and being selfish
> 3) I have not screwed anyone
> 4) for 6 weeks I have been very nice affectionate and understanding
> 5) I am trying to save our marriage
> 6) told you I wanted a baby
> 7) I have protected you from your family and friends and public humiliation due to your lies out of respect for you
> 8) I have not left because of your lies
> 9) I am doing my best to give you a chance to stay with me
> 10) have told you over and over again how I feel about everything and it always ends with us staying married
> 
> Now Please DO NOT SAY THAT I HATE YOU EVER AGAIN I CAN'T TOLERATE ANYMORE FALSE ILLOGICAL BULL**** AND IF IT CONTINUES I AM WALKING..... IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP!!!
> 
> Now, your actions following your betrayal have been very alarming, but I am giving you a chance to snap out of your emotional disorientation and start to deal with our and your problems. I have warned you that I can't do this very much longer, and that is for my own self-protection. It is true... I can't handle your defensive stance anymore. You are not worth my effort and time!!!! if you can not accept that you ****ed up beyond any reasonable excuse and you need to do anything and everything in your power to reconcile this act of lucid immaturity and self-indulgence, then I will walk away! No more. I promise it will be over. My soul is worn thinner that it ever has been in my life. I am emotionally drained. I will find the need to do something else with my life. And I am getting close.
> 
> About our marriage that YOU AND ONLY YOU ended! (we had problems.....and you where not the only one that felt un-loved by FAR) We had a chance to fix our past marriage if we did not ignore our problems. You decided it was not worth fixing and ended it with your affair
> 
> Marriage takes some basic entities to exists: Mutual respect, Complete honesty , Admiration, TRUST, and most of all Love.
> In our lowest points of this marriage we have lacked all of these qualities besides love. Now we are in a different boat.... Our marriage is over.... I think our marriage has realistically been over since sometime between 2011 and 2012. We did try to get it going again a few years ago but failed miserably.
> 
> So how do we rebuild a marriage that will not only abolish all of our past grief we caused each other and allow for a strong foundation that will never ever break down again? I am not completely sure, but I do know that Rug-sweeping, lack of honesty, defensiveness, pity, selfishness, anger, denial and lack of respect will not do anything!!!! This is where you are now. I am not.
> 
> I do know that counseling alone will not fix us.... it will take a lot more than that. So where do we start????
> here is what I want to start happening immediately so I can start to trust and believe in you again!
> 
> If I ask you a question... Do NOT run away... answer it with complete honesty
> If you have truly stooped talking to Pat good...If not do it now.....I want you to take his number out of your phone, I want you to un-friend him on facebook and make yourself invisible to him. I also want you to do the same for liz... I don't want you reminiscing your affair with him through her Facebook page. I don't want you looking at him every time she posts pics. I never want you or him to see each other intentionally again EVER!!!!!!) , delete what ever programs you guys used to communicate off of your phone including any e-mail address I don't know about or any chatting app that you may have been using. Not saying you have these things but I really don't know much so just in case! I don't think at all you have gotten over him and you still have an emotional attachment to him, so if you are reminded of him through facebook, you will never fully recover from your attachment and that will always get in the way of restoring your love for me. if he calls you or contacts you I want to know. If he text's you I want to know so I can send him a message back and tell him to leave you the **** alone or I tell his wife and he can suffer the same agony as I have because of your affair with that PIECE OF ****!!!
> For now I wan't to be able believe you have done this.... so I want your passwords to whatever I wan't to be sure you are working with me here. As I hope you understand... It will take a long time for me to ever trust you again. I will trust you again in time as long as you are transparent and have been fully honest with me and have nothing to hide. I want you to get those books I requested ASAP. I will read one while you read the other... I want you to start with the surviving an affair book... I will read it when you are done.
> 
> 
> here is what I sent her this morning... Opinions??



This approach rarely (and to be honest never that I remember one case Works, I said rarely becuase I suppose maybe it have worked for someone with a really remorseful wayward (not your case) but at least I can't quote a case here) Works.

why you said?

because while your words are well elaborated and seems to come from alot of reflection, while trying to impose the conditions to a sucessfully reconcilation the truth is that you are still in the begging position, you never enforced consequences, is like a thief who is caught and is requested to "please stop stealing" and to realize how he has lost the trust of those he steal from, and is requested kindly to stop stealing and to be a good person from now on because those from who he stole still wnat to be their friends nad have him around, will the thief stop stealing under those circumstnaces? most likely not, he have nothing to lose it has being left clear that even if he fails to meet their expectatives they still want him around.

is the same with you, she is not going to unfriend him from FB or stop communicating with him, after all you have left clear that you still want to persue the realtion ship after what she has done without real consequences.

She will give you a crap excuse like how you are controlling, or how you can not trust her, or how if you request that means that you have not really forgiven her (like they always do)

you SHOULD expose the OM, that will end all your problems and show her real colors, he most likely will throw her under the buss (as he has also not unfriended her means that he is not worried about you and your threats, he probably knows that if you have to communicate him that you are going to expose him, means that you never don´t have intention to do it, you don't have to be a genius to reach that conclusión), and the you will se her reaction, if she response with hate and blame you for his actions, the your are plan B and is good to move on or she may wake up to him using her as a pice of meat and she may begin to put herself together willing to work in your marriage.

If he were conjsidering to leave his wife for yours he had done it already, but most OM are not dumb they don't want nothing with a woman that cheats and they just want to have fun, you have to remember that this men are womanizer that know how to prey a live under the mentality of "if she cheats with you she will cheat on you"


----------



## Jmon

Yea.... we talked for some time yesturday... and she admitted to being used.... so that was a good step For her to even admit that to herself! I have checked her Facebook and she did hide Herself from him and did unfriend both him and his wife.... she did it last week.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Jmon, while your marriage is on the mends i hope you do not think of having another child at this time, or a long time. it will only put more undue stress on the marriage.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Jmon
> But there where underlying issues in the marriage that caused her to sway. Partly my responsibility
> I let things get as bad as I did
> So basically my life for years has completely revolved around them.... not my marriage


*That helps explain why you are so accommodating regarding your wife’s betrayal; you think you are partly to blame*. It also helps explain why your wife resents your children but that would be harder to accept for me. However, this is your betrayal and you seem to be making very good progress so far.


As long as you and your wife are 100% committed to the R and do all the work then I think you two will make it. I do think that you both need to make sure that you stop acting like teenagers and going to the bars; in your wife’s case getting drunk shows a great deal of immaturity. I assume you and your wife have a plan in place so that you do not fall back into the pitfalls that you both had prior to the infidelity;* am I assuming correctly? *That really is going to be the backbone of your R!


*You are very open about your failures prior to the affair; is your wife also that open? Does she read this forum?*


----------



## Jmon

Thanks mr blunt..

I don't blame myself for her decision to allow herself to do what she did on myself. But things where pretty bad between us and I partially take responsibility for that...... but she does now think everything is her fault. But the MC I think will really help her her the root of her issues. So I am happy about that. No she does not read this forum or have any idea I am posting our story here.


----------



## thenub

Jmon has it all figured out. Cut him some slack will ya...
Ha'll be back in the going through divorce section in no time.


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## MattMatt

I hope you can both work through this. But if you can't, we will be here for you.


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## Rafi

Good Luck. Don't let your guard down yet, let her suffer a bit more. You are still living the shock...the rage and anger will hit you after this phase.


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## Sandie

thenub said:


> Jmon has it all figured out. Cut him some slack will ya...
> Ha'll be back in the going through divorce section in no time.



Not NICE!


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## Jmon

Seems like there are some butter people up In here!


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## Jmon

Bitter hahahaa


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## Sandie

You can EDIT your post to fix a typo rather than make another post.


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## bfree

Sandie said:


> You can EDIT your post to fix a typo rather than make another post.


I like it butter the way Jmon did it...


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## Plan 9 from OS

bfree said:


> I like it butter the way Jmon did it...


You batter be telling the truth!


----------



## Jmon

Yall cra...cra....


----------



## Sandie

ZY?


----------



## chaos

Hopefully not ending with "...ckers"


----------



## Jmon

ok what is ZY?


----------



## Sandie

The last two letters of crazy!


----------



## Jmon

wow.... one day my mind will start working again. HA... nice! thanks for the smile!


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## Jmon

just to keep you all updated.

Wife is starting to open up a lot more. I asked her who ended the affair, she said she did. But you all where right in regards to the guy... so after she told me... Obviously I went crazy, One day I wanted a divorce the next I didn't I was pretty confused. Obviously. The shock was crazy and my thoughts where completely out of control. She told me that he was relentless in perusing her even after she told him she told me. She told me for the first week or so, she still wanted to hook up with him, and of course it was due to me trying to kick her out. And she thought I was just going to screw someone anyway. I know real mature. And of course because I did try to get her to leave, but she did not want to and refused to. She said she told him she was staying at home, and going to try to work things out.... and he was still perusing her. WoW I really don't know how people do this ****. There is no way in hell I could do that. What a piece of ****. And my wife as well. 

She is a piece of work and weak!!! instead of trying to make me happy and talk to me... she avoided it because she was still heavily involved in talking to this guy. Now I am not a women.... But all of the women here.. maybe can give me a perspective on this. So why would she tell me who... when.. and how... tell me she was sorry, tell me she did not want a divorce.. refuse to leave... and blame my actions on her continued talking to him on me? Anyway... I didn't ask her much else after that because she started crying yada yada yada.......She said she told him to quit talking to her because she felt like she was being used. She said she ended the affair in early FEB. And swears they only met up that one time in mid January. I guess my question for the all women here..... 

When a women allows a man to seduce her.... how much does that seduction interrupt logic and any real understanding of the situation they are in. Obviously she was looking for more from me after she confessed... I did not give it to her... so she ran back to him and he continued to try to seduce her even further. I guess A nother question for the women here.... when you ladies are in the state of seduction... how much does what the man say influence your thought? Is it controlling? Anyway... that is what is going on. Wife has been very cooperative about everything and is opening up a lot more with out any grief. Obviously she has some major issues to work through... I asked her if she was going through a mid-life crisis... she said maybe? What ever that means. There is no way in hell I could do what he or she did... pretty eye opening to the maturity level of my wife.

I mean I knew she was immature and selfish but not to that level. As far as exposure to dude's wife... I have sent him a couple of emails... telling him to tell his wife before I do... But I will be making that call after Easter weekend. I feel bad... just because everything I have been going through and how much pain is involved...sucks and I really hate to do that to someone else... but I can't just not do anything. My wife does not seem to care if I tell her anymore.. She just said the women lives on facebook and is afraid she will humiliate her on facebook...to their mutual friends. yada yada yada. But I really don't care. Dude and my wife are both Piece of ****s. And if where not for my family I would drop her! I still love her, but I am just not sure people can change. She is trying I guess, she definitely wants to be with me..... I think. Just hard to believe anything she says. 

But her actions show that she is committed to restoring the marriage. Oh and she said the sex was awkward and uncomfortable... What are the chances of that? Not sure hat that even means. I guess I have some understanding because in the past there where certain women that I just didn't enjoy the sex that much and it was kinda uncomfortable. I did continue to talk to the women after we screwed but was single and the sexual aspect of the relationship either lasted one or two times. Again looking for a women's perspective!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I have not found any evidence she is still taking to him. The last phone call was in early FEB. She said they mostly communicated through facebook. So now it is obvious why she was not acting very remorseful the first two weeks.... but she definitely was crying a ton. So I just don't get it. Was she just that much of an emotional wreck and confused... Being caught by her hubby and him constantly perusing her? Anyway... It is hard for me to continue my marriage with her.... but I have to give her a chance to change... It just would not be fair to my kids. 

As far as me.... I am doing much much better... my emotional distress is about gone... I am starting to feel "normal" again and am thinking much more clearly... and finally getting sleep! When I use to think about her affair I got really depressed and mad.... anxiety... could not think straight... felt like there was a big giant gaping hole in my soul. And my emotional strength would drop out of me in an instant. My brain felt like a pile of rotting oat meal with flies laying their eggs in it! Now When I think about it... I just get kinda discussed...and give my self the proverbial WTF. So I am much better after about 2.5 months. I think I have forgiven her... but she is 37.. and the level of immaturity and selfishness just astounds me. She has been a completely different person around the house... as of late. No complaining... very agreeable about everything.... Very loving and affectionate to-ward me..and kids... Constantly hugging me and kissing me. I am still kinda giving the cold shoulder...but not much.


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## happyman64

jmon

Maybe it was temporary insanity? Who knows. WHo cares.

Just don't let her rug sweep the affair, the lies and the cheating.

It will just happen again if she knows you will give her a free pass.

All in good time. It is ok to forgive but never forget.

HM


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## ButtPunch

Have you informed the OM's wife yet? You are rugsweeping. Already forgiven her....give me a break.


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## Jmon

Butt punch!!! No... I am not rug sweeping at all. As far as forgiving her... yes I can...and I feel like I have internally. I have to in order to work though this. don't get me wrong I am disgusted... but not rug sweeping...We have a ton to talk about and is impossible to work through our issues and the affair in a short time... but remaining angry does not help... the situation. I guess I just feel like... she has one chance here... and if she does not prove herself to become a worthy wife... I am out. So yea... either way my life will improve...


I will stay with a women I love that is dedicated to becoming better person..... and will be a much more improved wife... I also need to work out a few kinks in myself.. but she has a lot more work to do. Or I find a new women that deserves me! I had a very hard life growing up as a kid and through my teenage years... and have been through some very very hard times.... maybe that is why some of you don't understand my passiveness. I have learned a ton about myself and life through constant thought and interpretation of my existence, and really it takes a lot for me to hold grudges and really I don't. I have been in more brutal fights than some of you could ever imagine... BC of that I have learned from first hand experience that when there is no loved life at stake or self protection I have no need to resort to violence. Trust me there is a beast that lies... deep inside of me and if ever need be I can bring it out in a second... and I hope I never get into a situation that calls for that.... but it is there. But I will always try to resolve things in a peaceful manner first. If I can't... then I will walk away... If I have to protect myself... I feel sorry for the aggressor..... In this situation I feel the same way...

I am attempting to resolve things in a peaceful manner... sine there is more at stake.. my children's lives... I have taken a firmer stance.. but I am not afraid to walk away from her. So that makes the pill a bit easier to swallow. I will be fine in life.. I don't need her at all. The ball in her court and she knows that now... especially since she is starting to think rationally now. Not forging is stupid... and would delay the outcome of the resolution of my situation regardless of the outcome. And not I did not tell dude's wife yet. I plan on calling her after Easter. he has two children under the age of 6 so when his wife finds out it is going to be hard for her and she is going to flip out... and I am reluctant BC of the pain I felt.. It is horrible to realize that the person you married would do that to you. But she deserves to choose what to do with her life. There is no doubt that the guy is a womanizer and did not care even perusing my wife when he know she told me....and bluntly telling my wife he has no plans to leave his wife. HA what a **** head. You really think this guy is worth my time??? or effort??? He is not even worth my voice in my book. I hope that is understandable. He will eventually get caught.... anyway. But yea... 

I do feel for his wife. And that is the only reason I want to tell her. Not for revenge... not BC i am afraid they will re-enter the affair... If that happens.. good reddens to my wife. I mean that. It would just show she is not worthy of my time... and she is not changing and she can go become someone else's problem. I will have my freedom from her and that is not a bad thing... really a good thing if she does not change. So HOW AM I RUG SWEEPING AGAIN?????


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## turnera

Jmon, PLEASE go back and put your last two posts into paragraphs. Just break them up after every two or three sentences. It's really hard to read all that without them.

ETA: Thanks!


----------



## Borntohang

I'll give you credit! You're handling your wife, in the way you think will work best in the long run...It might be different than some us would recommend, but we don't know the entire dynamics of your marriage!
But I think even you'll recognize your mistake for not contacting his wife right away! Now that you realize he and she were still in contact, pursuing each other after you found out! Can you see why the more veteran people here were pushing so hard for exposure? You rationalized every way you 
could think of to not!


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## Jmon

does that help?


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## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> does that help?


Yes!

Borntohang makes a good point. In the beginning of all this, you believed she was severely depressed because she felt so much guilt and remorse over what she had done. Now, you've found out that she was really moping around because she was still missing him, still reaching out to him, still wanted to hook up with him, and not being honest with you about any of it.

So now perhaps that helps you see more clearly why everyone was advising to tell the OM's wife. It would have shut the whole thing down INSTANTLY.

My advice is, when you come across advice here that seems counterintuitive to what you think -- remember, you've never been through this before. Most of the people giving you advice here HAVE.

I still think you should tell the OM's wife. Like yesterday.


----------



## Sandie

happy as a clam said:


> I still think you should tell the OM's wife. Like yesterday.


I agree! 

But it's too late to tell her YESTERDAY!


----------



## turnera

Very much so, thanks.

Ok, so first, most women cheat for the emotion. Most cheating men know that, so they pile on the attention, flattery, and fake caring. Women lap it up. Most cheating women will 'give' the man the sex so he keeps giving her the emotion. So, yes, the sex is often awkward and unfulfilling and often shameful.

Second, yes, she wanted you to be her KISA and to swoop in and rescue her from him. But you didn't. Women have to have strong men. Not chest-beaters, but strong, confident men who say stop doing that THIS INSTANT or I walk. Cheating women usually respond only to husbands who react swiftly, confidently, without yelling/shaming/breaking things (because only beta men have to do that and beta men aren't attractive), and basically put the woman in her place. 

That's what she was waiting for. And didn't get from you, so she waffled. Neither situation was fulfilling so she got more and more frustrated and unhappy.

If you still don't understand the female psyche, try reading a few romance novels. They're all the same. Woman isn't happy, meets strong man, she's attracted, he rescues her in some way, happily ever after.


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## Jmon

Sandie said:


> I agree!
> 
> But it's too late to tell her YESTERDAY!


Yes it is.. at this point... I am not sure it is worth telling her. I want to and have no problem doing it. But.... It seems the only purpose it would be to provide at this point is to help his wife. And I really do not know his wife that well. I think my wife realized their mistake... and is completely done with him... she is scared of the humiliation she may endure due to the uncertainty of the dude's wife's reaction. I do have myself convinced I need to tell her... sometimes just am not sure it is the right idea. I mean they have 2 young kids under the age of 6. I can talk to her and ask her not to humiliate my wife and and if she needs support she can always call me...but it is a hard pill to swallow either way.


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## cgiles

Jmon said:


> I mean they have 2 young kids under the age of 6.


Well, if you don't want to say because of them, you are in the wrong.

It's better for the kids to have 2 home with 2 happy parents, than 1 home with 2 sad parents.


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## RV9

Jmon said:


> Yes it is.. at this point... I am not sure it is worth telling her. I want to and have no problem doing it. But.... It seems the only purpose it would be to provide at this point is to help his wife. And I really do not know his wife that well. I think my wife realized their mistake... and is completely done with him... she is scared of the humiliation she may endure due to the uncertainty of the dude's wife's reaction. I do have myself convinced I need to tell her... sometimes just am not sure it is the right idea. I mean they have 2 young kids under the age of 6. I can talk to her and ask her not to humiliate my wife and and if she needs support she can always call me...but it is a hard pill to swallow either way.


Informing the OMW is necessary - 
1) so that the affair may not start again. 
2) to make the WW realize how her actions have hurt an innocent woman. 

What you are doing is trying to play white Knight for your WW. Something you don't realize is if the affair starts again and the OM leaves his wife his kids would be really hurt. So will yours. 

You never thought your wife could have an affair. She did. What guarantee do you have that she won't do it again? Your logic against informing the OMW is like to preserve the beauty of the skin, you refuse to cauterize a wound that could bleed you to death. 

You have a moral obligation to inform the OMW. Don't be a coward.


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## Jmon

RV9 said:


> Informing the OMW is necessary -
> 1) so that the affair may not start again.
> 2) to make the WW realize how her actions have hurt an innocent woman.
> 
> What you are doing is trying to play white Knight for your WW. Something you don't realize is if the affair starts again and the OM leaves his wife his kids would be really hurt. So will yours.
> 
> You never thought your wife could have an affair. She did. What guarantee do you have that she won't do it again? Your logic against informing the OMW is like to preserve the beauty of the skin, you refuse to cauterize a wound that could bleed you to death.
> 
> You have a moral obligation to inform the OMW. Don't be a coward.



I guess I don't feel like I would bleed to death. If she did have another affair... it would instantly end the marriage for me. You are right there are no guarantees... But at the same time.. If my wife and I can't build a solid marriage in the future that is not satisfying for the both of us.. I don't want it. My time on this planet is 2 short and in reality the affair knocked me out of my funk and killed a ****ty marriage. if we can not make our marriage work.. then I don't want it. So not being a coward. If wife is happy in the marriage and so am I, there really should be no reason for future affairs. But yes.... I do agree with the pain of that waning on my wife's heart. It will definitely disturb her for the rest of her life. You guys are all right... it is the right thing to do. My wife has not showed any resistance to me telling dude's wife as of late. So I know she has accepted it. But thinking about their family is what bothers me. That is really it!


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## happy as a clam

Jmon... do you honestly think that not telling OM's wife is somehow "protecting" his family?

Protecting them from what? IMHO, he blew that protection wide open when he chose to have an affair with your wife.

And yes, telling his wife s*cks because she IS going to get hurt. But he will likely continue having affairs, and I'll bet she would want to know before she invests more years and effort with this clown.

Just my 2 cents...


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## 3putt

happy as a clam said:


> Jmon... do you honestly think that not telling OM's wife is somehow "protecting" his family?
> 
> Protecting them from what? IMHO, he blew that protection wide open when he chose to have an affair with your wife.
> 
> And yes, telling his wife s*cks because she IS going to get hurt. But he will likely continue having affairs, and I'll bet she would want to know before she invests more years and effort with this clown.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


You're forgetting something else as well. With her in the know, you'd have her eyes on the situation from her end. Insurance.


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> My wife has not showed any resistance to me telling dude's wife as of late. So I know she has accepted it. But thinking about their family is what bothers me.


So you would rather you had never learned of your wife's affair? You'd rather keep on living in a marriage in which your wife is sneaking, lying, having one affair after another (since her husband is not stopping her and she gets bolder and bolder), where more and more people EXCEPT YOU know what your wife's doing and no one tells you? Where you find out in your 70s that your whole life has been a lie?

That is what you are handing the OMW by you not telling.


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## RV9

Jmon said:


> I guess I don't feel like I would bleed to death. If she did have another affair... it would instantly end the marriage for me. You are right there are no guarantees... But at the same time.. If my wife and I can't build a solid marriage in the future that is not satisfying for the both of us.. I don't want it. My time on this planet is 2 short and in reality the affair knocked me out of my funk and killed a ****ty marriage. if we can not make our marriage work.. then I don't want it. So not being a coward. If wife is happy in the marriage and so am I, there really should be no reason for future affairs. But yes.... I do agree with the pain of that waning on my wife's heart. It will definitely disturb her for the rest of her life. You guys are all right... it is the right thing to do. My wife has not showed any resistance to me telling dude's wife as of late. So I know she has accepted it. But thinking about their family is what bothers me. That is really it!


Unhappy people don't have affairs. Uncaring, selfish people have affairs. 

It's your life, it's your decision. The OM would continue having affairs until and unless someone exposes him. If not you, someone eventually will. Not every day you get the chance to do something good. Tell his wife. Eventually it would help his kids.


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## bfree

happy as a clam said:


> Jmon... do you honestly think that not telling OM's wife is somehow "protecting" his family?
> 
> Protecting them from what? IMHO, he blew that protection wide open when he chose to have an affair with your wife.
> 
> And yes, telling his wife s*cks because she IS going to get hurt. But he will likely continue having affairs, and I'll bet she would want to know before she invests more years and effort with this clown.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


What if the OM has an affair and gets HIV? What if he gives it to his wife. Then these children grow up with no parents. Is that better Jmon? Is it still better not to tell her when a simple phone call or visit could have prevented it? Let's make it even simpler. Do you think they have a good marriage with him cheating all the time? Telling his wife could smarten him up. Maybe they can work on their marriage and heal each other. Wouldn't that benefit the children? See, I can come up with just as many reasons to tell her as you can excuses not to.


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## Lostinthought61

Jmon i get that it bothers you that you might be impacting a family but keep in mind, that this wonderful individual has no problem still trying to pursue your wife even after you discovered the affair, you anger, her crying and all he thought about was his needs....that alone should tell you that someone needs to expose him...and yes you can feel for the wife and kids but if the tables were turned would you want to know?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By Jmon*
> What a piece of ****. And my wife as well.
> She is a piece of work and weak!!!
> I mean I knew she was immature and selfish but not to that level
> Dude and my wife are both Piece of ****s.
> Just hard to believe anything she says
> but she is 37.. and the level of immaturity and selfishness just astounds me


I hope you both realize your attitude that her betrayal has caused and that this is going to be years in repairing.

That attitude is going to take a long time to get much improved and you both are going to have to work very hard for a long time to get a lot better*. I am not talking about months but years.* Your admiration and trust in her will never return 100% but v can get to an acceptable level.

I am not saying that you two cannot make it I am wondering if you both know that the damage that is done will take years and will be very hard. The first year your wife will probably be the best she has been in years.* The immaturity and selfishness needs to be proven that it has improved significantly for years*. I am talking about the long term plan but realize that you want to get information about the short term.

For short term you should do everything to build yourself up because she has weakened you. Of course there is counselling, but in addition, *you should get involved with something that you are very interested in; sports, hobby, education, etc*. This will help you take your mind off of thinking about your pain so much. You should concentrate on yourself and not so much your wife because the things that matter to you most about her you can do very little to help. *What matters to you most are that she greatly improves her maturity and selfishness and that is pretty much up to her; not much you can do.* Also you should do for yourself because you cannot have a lot of trust that she is going to have your best interest at heart.


Her work for the short term and long term is for her to prove with ACTIONS that she is improving with her maturity and selfishness. You both have a lot of healing to do.* You have made some progress so that is encouraging but just realize that you have a long way to go and a few months of kissy kissy and nicey nicey does not mean much.*


----------



## Jmon

Yea.... Mr B! You are right! I know this.... sucks... would be so much easier to walk away! But my family's well being is more important than myself. At least for now..... the future is.. unwritten!


----------



## Jmon

I will be calling his wife Monday morning. I have her phone number. You guys are all right....just sucks


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## cgiles

Jmon said:


> But my family's well being is more important than myself. At least for now..... the future is.. unwritten!


No, because if you are not fine, your family will not be fine. Focus on you, your children and then on your marriage. 

Don't stay in this marriage for your kids, or for the family, stay in it for your wife. 

If you don't want to eat the **** sandwich for stay with your wife, but just for keep the family, move on.


----------



## bfree

farside said:


> Jmon:
> 
> I have read this entire thread and really think you need to stop coming to this board and listen to the professionals that are giving you advice (and your family). This is a board populated by people that have been cheated on and bring their own baggage to your situation. I have read this board for some time and have never seen them say that reconciliation (or forgiveness) is possible.
> 
> *This is simply not true. I am a long time poster and generally support reconciliation when both parties are interested in repairing the marriage. I dare say many posters are supporters of reconciliation when appropriate. I know of only very few that recommend divorce at all costs after infidelity and even they also usually suggest dating the ex after the divorce to see if a new relationship can be formed.*
> 
> You know your situation and you know your wife. You know her illness (and she is clearly ill). In one of your posts you took responsibility for some of the problems in your marriage (which is absolutely different than responsibility for the affair). IF you still love her, work the process.
> 
> *That is what he is doing and we are encouraging him in that effort. Are you reading the same thread as I am?*
> 
> Much of the advice here is based on the Married Man's Sex Life primer. There is some good stuff in that book, but, at its core, its based on the theories of "Pick Up Artists" ("the Game") which is misogynistic bull ****. You are not less of a man for treating your wife with a grain of dignity and not engaging in a scorched Earth campaign you are MORE of a man. There is a difference between treating someone with dignity and being a push over.
> 
> *Actually most of the advice here is based on many different sources. Much of it is from marriage advice books from experts like Dr. Willard Harley, Gary Chapman, Dr. Emerson Eggerichs, John Gottman, Robert Glover, Dr. Helen Fisher, Shirley Glass, Janis Spring, etc.
> 
> That said, most of the advice is from people who have been through the exact same situations as this OP and other posters are and have gone through. It's called experience and as they say it is the best teacher. You are correct though that some does indeed come from Athol Kay (Married Man's Sex Life Primer) and in case you are not aware he was once a very active member of this site and still pops by on rare occasions. This is where he honed and gleaned all his information from. So in essence his advice is our advice and comes from the thousands of people who have come before. Some reconciled, some divorced, all learned and subsequently passed on their collective knowledge.*
> 
> As for telling the OM's wife, it is your call, but if it is based on revenge don't do it.
> 
> *No one has suggested he tell the OMW out of revenge. We've recommended exposure to her as a compassionate act and as a way to safeguard his own marriage.*
> 
> Good luck.


----------



## lordmayhem

Jmon, I suggest you ignore people like this who have no experience with infidelity, and is basically just watches the kids while his wife goes on GNOs, and then wonders why she is so LD for him. 



farside said:


> Jmon:
> 
> I have read this entire thread and really think you need to stop coming to this board and listen to the professionals that are giving you advice (and your family). This is a board populated by people that have been cheated on and bring their own baggage to your situation. I have read this board for some time and have never seen them say that reconciliation (or forgiveness) is possible.
> 
> You know your situation and you know your wife. You know her illness (and she is clearly ill). In one of your posts you took responsibility for some of the problems in your marriage (which is absolutely different than responsibility for the affair). IF you still love her, work the process.
> 
> Much of the advice here is based on the Married Man's Sex Life primer. There is some good stuff in that book, but, at its core, its based on the theories of "Pick Up Artists" ("the Game") which is misogynistic bull ****. You are not less of a man for treating your wife with a grain of dignity and not engaging in a scorched Earth campaign you are MORE of a man. There is a difference between treating someone with dignity and being a push over.
> 
> As for telling the OM's wife, it is your call, but if it is based on revenge don't do it. Good luck.





farside said:


> I have read this board for some time and have never seen them say that reconciliation (or forgiveness) is possible.


:bsflag:

I'm in R and so are a few veterans. There have been threads and advocating R if the WS does the heavy lifting. You spend most of your time in the Sex forum trying to find advice on spicing up your sex life with your LD wife, that's why you miss the threads on R. If the WS isn't doing the steps necessary for True R, then it's False R. Unfortunately, most of the WSs in these stories won't do what's necessary for True R, hence the calls for D. You would know that if you actually spent some time her in the CWI forum.


----------



## farside

Sorry I offended so many of you, I am genuinely not trying to troll anyone. I just did not like the way that many of the posts earlier in this thread were attacking this poor guy that is going through some stuff. I withdraw the comment.


----------



## Jmon

Either way situation is very hard to deal with. What are the signs of a false R?
Either way sometimes I feel like getting a divorce.. sometimes I don't it is confusing. My wife has a lot of growing up to do and I just am not sure she will change. And it is tough BC I really don't believe a word she says. I am just happy I am feeling better....... I do feel like she herself is forcing herself to try to work our marriage out..... but I can't really make a good determination due to the heavy stress of our situation. But I guess in her situation.... BC she bonded with a nother man and that infatuation feels really good.... just almost seems pointless to try sometimes. We have been together for 12 years... so... not really sure how I can ever make her feel complete again. So.... anyway life sucks right now... the advise on here has been great. It has helped me out a lot. But I do think my wife has some major issues to deal with.... I think sometimes it is not worth my effort when there are so many other kind hearted women out there. But I know in the future I would be upset if I didn't give her a chance to change and become a better person for the sake of my family..because I do love her.... but at the same time have no issues with letting her go. Sometimes I feel like I need o go out and "bond" with a new women just to see what it is like but I know that is not the right thing to do at this point.


----------



## Jmon

Oh and I am telling the dudes wife. But sucks cuzz I don't want to be a part of hurting the family.


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> Either way situation is very hard to deal with. What are the signs of a false R?
> Either way sometimes I feel like getting a divorce.. sometimes I don't it is confusing. *My wife has a lot of growing up to do and I just am not sure she will change*. And it is tough BC I really don't believe a word she says. *I am just happy I am feeling better*


So you are doing R just to stop the pain.

How do you think that's going to turn out?

And if you think she's going to grow up in your marriage, well, I wouldn't bet on it. 

What WILL be more likely to make her grow up, though, is suffering a divorce. You can even tell her you'll be willing to date her once the divorce is done. But you have to go through with this for yourself.


----------



## Jmon

No not doing the r just to feel better. I am feeling better regardless. Does not matter if she is here or not. I feel like I am mentally. stabilizing..... has nothing to do with the R.


----------



## bfree

farside said:


> Sorry I offended so many of you, I am genuinely not trying to troll anyone. I just did not like the way that many of the posts earlier in this thread were attacking this poor guy that is going through some stuff. I withdraw the comment.


Not offended in any way. And by the way I'm not a bitter man forever scarred by his betraying ex wife either. I just saw that you were misinformed about what advice Jmon was receiving and the way in which advice is disbursed by and the general proclivities of posters here in CWI. I don't peruse the Sex in Marriage section too often but if what lordmayhem says is accurate I am truly sorry for your situation. As I am sure you have received lots of advice including advice stemming from Athol Kay (MMSL) I can see why you bristle at those suggestions. While I don't always agree with Athol and certainly every situation is different I can say without hesitation that if nothing else MMSL is a good starting point. And if you are relegated to a glorified babysitter while your wife does her GNO's I echo the advice that you have no doubt received and you need to change that dynamic asap. Anyway, I apologize to Jmon for this slight threadjack and return forthwith to the topic at hand.


----------



## ZOV

Jmon said:


> No not doing the r just to feel better. I am feeling better regardless. Does not matter if she is here or not. I feel like I am mentally. stabilizing..... has nothing to do with the R.


It looks like you have emotionally detached and kept your sanity intact. Good job.


----------



## bfree

Jmon said:


> Either way situation is very hard to deal with. What are the signs of a false R?
> Either way sometimes I feel like getting a divorce.. sometimes I don't it is confusing. My wife has a lot of growing up to do and I just am not sure she will change. And it is tough BC I really don't believe a word she says. I am just happy I am feeling better....... I do feel like she herself is forcing herself to try to work our marriage out..... but I can't really make a good determination due to the heavy stress of our situation. But I guess in her situation.... BC she bonded with a nother man and that infatuation feels really good.... just almost seems pointless to try sometimes. We have been together for 12 years... so... not really sure how I can ever make her feel complete again. So.... anyway life sucks right now... the advise on here has been great. It has helped me out a lot. But I do think my wife has some major issues to deal with.... I think sometimes it is not worth my effort when there are so many other kind hearted women out there. But I know in the future I would be upset if I didn't give her a chance to change and become a better person for the sake of my family..because I do love her.... but at the same time have no issues with letting her go. Sometimes I feel like I need o go out and "bond" with a new women just to see what it is like but I know that is not the right thing to do at this point.


Jmon, give it time. If the R is false it will become evident before too much time has passed. As long she is making the effort and taking the actions let it ride and guide her toward what you want and need. There is merit to the phrase "fake it till you make it." Sometimes it takes months before the WS is emotionally all in.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Sometimes I feel like I need o go out and "bond" with a new women just to see what it is like but I know that is not the right thing to do at this point."

You do not have to actually do this to know what it will feel like.

Imagine all the feelings of love you have for your WW right now....but then imagine the relief you will feel knowing that it is with a woman who has never stabbed you in the back.

You can love another woman as much as her....I know it may be hard to see that right now while you are in the middle of this sh*tstorm...but it is the truth.

Your choice boils down to this....do you want the chance for a M like that?

Or do you want to rebuild with your WW, knowing the pain of this will never truly disappear?

You may find happy times again with WW, but there will always be a stain on the relationship.


----------



## bfree

Dyokemm said:


> "Sometimes I feel like I need o go out and "bond" with a new women just to see what it is like but I know that is not the right thing to do at this point."
> 
> You do not have to actually do this to know what it will feel like.
> 
> Imagine all the feelings of love you have for your WW right now....but then imagine the relief you will feel knowing that it is with a woman who has never stabbed you in the back.
> 
> You can love another woman as much as her....I know it may be hard to see that right now while you are in the middle of this sh*tstorm...but it is the truth.
> 
> Your choice boils down to this....do you want the chance for a M like that?
> 
> Or do you want to rebuild with your WW, knowing the pain of this will never truly disappear?
> 
> You may find happy times again with WW, but there will always be a stain on the relationship.


What you say is true. The betrayal will always be in the background during the marriage. But there is another element that makes R a desirable outcome. By working together to rebuild the marriage both Jmon and his wife will experience personal growth. The can both become better more well rounded individuals proficient at interpersonal communication and capable of building a deeper stronger relationship. That is why many who R say that although the infidelity was excruciating the marriage got better during and after healing. Of course this is only if they are both all in and committed to building that great marriage.


----------



## Jmon

Yea I understand I could fall for a nother women. I could easily upgrade here. The issue is not be in able to forgive her... and it is not love... it is the idea that she can't or will not change. The selfishness is a lot to handle. That won't really change in any matter of reasonable time. The women has issues.... I can't put myself in her position BC I would never do that to someone. The more I read the more I understand it is her personality type that caused her to cheat. I mean she told me about the affair... and instead of doing the right thing... she continued to lie and talk to the guy.... I know I was not very nice to her at that point... now yea... I guess she was looking for a KISA. I guess in her screwed up mind it was him. Just don't get why logic did not play a bigger role with her here. And that is some f-ed up! Yes people deserve a second chance.... but don't know if it worth anymore of my life to make that determination. Time will tell and I am doing this for hope and I like absolutes. But there is more at stake here than her. We will see.


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon... I just want to say that your most recent posts indicate great progress (on your part) in understanding all the dynamics at play. You've done a great job really opening your eyes, listening to the thoughtful advice given here, being open to several different outcomes, and deciding to make your ultimate decision based on facts, not just "what your heart wants."

And good that you are going to expose the OM to his wife.

Keep posting and reading 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jmon

I do believe the MC will be able to help her... when I ask wife questions that are uncomfortable to her she sometimes will talk with no grief and sometime she throws up the force field. And that us her all her and her personality type. I wish she was different but..... changing that will be hard. I am not sure she can ever become a completely honest person. Worrisome.


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## Jmon

She has always been that way... runs from her problems and has no idea how to resolve conflict and takes negative aspects of a conversation and holds on to them. I guess to justify her reasons for not dealing with issues. That is the reason why she had the affair... partly BC she just didn't give a ****... partly BC she was lonely in this marriage.... and was looking to be desired without conflict... she does not understand in her point of weakness... that love is a long process of ups and downs.... and BC she runs when things get tough or life has become uncomfortable.....she was reaching to feel desired and cared for in a way that was easy.... and in her mind I guess she thought she could have her family.....And ignore the problems that caused her unhappiness.....and reach out for an extramarital relationship to complete her. The fact that she did not care that the guy was married with little kids..shows how selfish she really is. And how low her morals are. The guy was just looking to get laid. She was willing to risk her dignity and family. She made herself believe what she was doing was ok BC it make her happy even when she knew what she was doing is completely wrong. A person like her... that has low morals...and has a very shaky ground of emotional and intilectual maturity, show little promise to change. Usually people grow emotionally and intelctually from their past and past relationships. She is living inside a mind that is way under her age. Now she is starting to deal with our issues and at times shows promise . But at times goes back to her same older same old self. I know people don't change instantly... but what I question the most is.... how long will it take for this maturity to develop. Does not seem like she has the thought power to do it on her own. It took me to send her a divorce decree as contact my lawyer for her to make any changes at all. So yea.... it is hard for me to justify staying with her because in all reality she does not deserve me at all. She does not appreciate me. She is no where near my intellectual maturity. There are plenty of women out there that are. However I do love her.... and want to help her if I can. I have issues myself but they came out more.often BC of her lack of ability to face her problems... and our marriage issues. If I leave her she will Continue to never feel complete with anyone for the long term until she has some resolution inside herself. Maybe it is worth my effort to see if she can actually do it. And maybe if she can...she will be thankful for my effort and be the women I want. She is a smart lady... just has not made the appropriate intilectual and emotional connections inside herself. Maybe I can help that. She is a great person to be around when she is happy...and the women I married is long gone... but maybe it really won't be that hard to fix because that person has existed in the past. At least the loving caring one... when we had little conflict things where great and that lasred for at least 5 years. But once things got rough she ran and didn't know how to deal with problems. Can it be fixed???? Maybe...worth my time....not sure! It's a gamble either way. I guess the meaning of love itself is to put your own needs aside to help the person you do love. I guess that is why I am here and trying to work with her.


----------



## happy as a clam

Maybe instead of a marriage counselor, she should focus on individual counseling to help her with her own issues.

Honestly, I don't think your marriage is the problem. I think SHE is the problem. IC would probably be money well spent. If she makes the necessary progress, then you can decide if you want to pursue MC.


----------



## turnera

Paragraphs!

IDK, I think that at this point, her going with him, she's starting to see that therapy isn't all that scary and that she might start to feel good from it, and that down the road she might be more likely to go into IC with full force. I know many people who go to therapy and just sit there, or who don't tell the truth, or don't know what to talk about.


----------



## lordmayhem

turnera said:


> Paragraphs!


:iagree:

That wall of text is difficult to read, especially with all the ellipses.


----------



## happy as a clam

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That wall of text is difficult to read, especially with all the ellipses.


Jmon, there is a handy "return" or "enter" button on your keyboard that will help you break up that wall o'text...

:lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Jmon
> She is a smart lady... just has not made the appropriate intellectual and emotional connections inside herself. Maybe I can help that.



Jmon, you told us that the counselor has discovered that her problems go back to her childhood. In addition, you have stated the following:



> A person like her... that has low morals...and has a very shaky ground of emotional and intellectual maturity, show little promise to change
> 
> She has held a lot of resentment to my kids and me because she wanted another kid. That is where most of our problems have come from.



Now back to your statement of “ Maybe I can help that.”. Based on what you have stated and the counselor’s statement, I do not think you can do a whole lot for your wife’s main problems. *Her failure to correct the situation as you have described as;“…the appropriate intellectual and emotional connections inside herself.” is something that she is going to have to do for herself.* 

Perhaps others can help give her some good information and guidance but in the end she is going to have to change those weaknesses. I am sure you have heard the statement that “you cannot change someone else you can only change yourself”. *That seems to apply here in your wife’s case and your case.*

If your counselor is correct and your assessment of her that she has not made an intellectual and emotional connection inside herself at the age of 37’, then I would think that she has a very low chance of making significant changes in the immediate future. *If she makes significant changes it will take many years and you will have failures and lots of struggles along the way.*




PS Yes you putting your posts int paragraphs would help but what is most important is that you describe your situation truthfully and will take actions based on the correct advice that you get. Do not stop posting because of your writing style. If we are helping and you are progressing then keep posting with or without paragraphs


----------



## Jmon

I tried to call the other wife today..
I guess the number I have is the house number no one answered. No answering machine. Got that number from zaba search. He blocked me from his and his wife's facebook page. So I don't know how to get her cell phone number. Any ideas on how to find people's cell phone numbers?


----------



## Jmon

I also messaged her through my daughters facebook page but they are not friends so I am not sure if she actually got the message. Anyway if you all have any creative ideas on how to contact her, please let me know.


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## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> I He blocked me from his and his wife's facebook page.


Create a new Facebook page with a variation on your name... instead of "John Doe" you can be "Texas John Doe" or whatever. Then you can send the wife a private message, even if she is not your FB "friend."


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## Jmon

I was thinking about doing that, but does she actually get the message in her inbox if I am not her friend? I did message her through my daughters facebook account and sent her my phone number have not heard from her, so I guess I will keep trying.


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## anchorwatch

Jmon said:


> I was thinking about doing that, but does she actually get the message in her inbox if I am not her friend? I did message her through my daughters facebook account and sent her my phone number have not heard from her, so I guess I will keep trying.


If I'm not connected to someone on Facebook, how can I make sure a message reaches their inbox?

Sending a Message

He's been a friend of her family for a long time, surely they can help with a contact method. Do you want to keep it from them, or don't you trust their involvement?


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## happy as a clam

I may be wrong, but I believe you can send her a friend request AND attach a message to that.

She will likely read it out of curiosity.


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## Jmon

Ok...

I got through to the wife yesterday. I made a new facebook page, and sent a message and requested her to be mt friend. She accepted to friend request and I sent her several messages. Then later on in the evening I noticed she or him blocked me from her with my moc facebook page. I named my moc facebook page with one singe extra letter in my name. So I Know it was not him that accepted the request. She did not reply to me, but I did send her my phone number. So I Think I get through. I am happy and sad about it. Happy BC she know... but sad due to the pain she is going to go through. anyway it had to be done. 

Thanks!


----------



## GusPolinski

Jmon said:


> Ok...
> 
> I got through to the wife yesterday. I made a new facebook page, and sent a message and requested her to be mt friend. She accepted to friend request and I sent her several messages. Then later on in the evening I noticed she or him blocked me from her with my moc facebook page. I named my moc facebook page with one singe extra letter in my name. So I Know it was not him that accepted the request. She did not reply to me, but I did send her my phone number. So I Think I get through. I am happy and sad about it. Happy BC she know... but sad due to the pain she is going to go through. anyway it had to be done.
> 
> Thanks!


1) Why did you send a message from your daughter's account? You've now involved her in Mom and Dad's marital woes.

2) OM probably intercepted the message and blocked you. Additionally, he'll probably be watching her FB account like a hawk from here on out.

3) I hope you're monitoring your wife's comms pretty closely, because OM will likely reach out to her in the coming days. And that's assuming, of course, that he hasn't already done so.

4) Do you know where OM lives?


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## Jmon

I sent from my daughters BC HE had me blocked from his wife! 

My daughter already knows what is going on and has for several months. I deleted the messages I sent her. from her account though. 


I don't think he intercepted the messages....from my moc FB account. He would have undefined me right away... I think I got in behind his back. I was up as a friend for most of the day. But yea he may have done that to make think she got the messages... but I don't think so. I was not blocked from her until much later in the evening. I hope she got them. My next move was to call her mom... found that number... land line... and tell her. But I think I got across.


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## Jmon

yes... he lives over 4 hours away. So I can't and will not go out there.


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## Jmon

Update:

It has been a few weeks since I posted... But I figured I would give you all an update..

I am almost back to having all of my emotional strength back. I get depressed sometimes out of now where but over all I am starting to feel like myself again.. THANK GOD! 

My wife has been much better at home... she is very nice and loving now... But still completely avoids talking about the affair. She will start to talk about it... then get upset and walk away... for the most part.

Our MC has been very good. She has mostly been talking to the wife and going through her issues about her inability to resolve conflict and not deal with issues and how she keeps everything bottled up. and how that all steamed from her childhood and she feels like most of our problems have steamed from her having those issues and my wife's resentment to-ward my daughter BC of my deep connection to her and her resentment to-ward them for not getting another baby from me. MC tells her over and over again over again she needs to talk about the affair! The MC is really not interested in the talking about the affair... just mostly wants to talk about our marriage issues. 

The wife does ok at the MC... mostly cry's the whole time as we talk about our marriage issues.. We have not talked about the affair very much.. but it does come up and even with the MC wife gets very uncomfortable about the subject.

We have been reading the book after the affair and we are sapose to talk about what stands out and is important in the book to us. We have had to book for 3 weeks and have only talked about it twice briefly BC of kids and time restraints. And her Resistance to deal with herself in regards to the affair. 

She still will not give any details up about her relationship with this guy... she gave me a very general picture... But she did admit that she is having a very hard time being open and completely honest about everything and she said she is trying and that should account for something..... Ok then????? So advise on how to deal with this or advise from cheaters themselves on why she would really be continuing to conceal secrets when I have told her everything is between us... and told her we have to go though this BC I will never trust her again unless I know she can tell me anything. So she admits to not being completely honest... she said she is trying and will continue to try BC she loves me... OK how do you try to be honest??? Should I take a firm stance on this... or let her wind it out as she is??? Is there a possible hidden agenda?

Other her not wanting to talk about the affair... she has been great around the house.. very warm and affectionate... she is not acting anything like she has been for some time (years).. more acting like the women I married. She seems very happy and only gets upset if I bring her issues up. But She has admitted to a lot of stuff in regards to the way she has treated my kids and has drastically changed in that fashion. Meaning she has been very nice.. understanding.. and is no longer short tempered with my daughter anymore... They actually got into a little argument (wife and daughter) the other night... and it was resolved by my wife in a nice manner!! They where texing back and forth after the fight... and made up. the next day when I took my daughter to work.. she stated that my wife was very nice to her after their argument. In a nut shell... with any differences aside (affair being the major one) Things have been great.. she has been damn bear perfect! Since this affair.... I feel closer to her than I have in years..... We made an agreement that we at least kiss and hug 5X a day.. and every night we cuddle on the couch after kids go to bed and watch tv... We have been having sex like we did in the first few years of our relationship... Almost every other day for 6 weeks now.... 

She completely admits to "****ing up' but still will not elaborate on anything... And she has always been like that... talking about anything that is uncomfortable to her. Part of our marriage problems in the first place. I remind her how important her talking is to us and our recovery... and I tell her she needs to be able to tell me anything and everything and there should be no secrets or boundaries between us... I told her it is the only way I will ever trust her again...

What worries me here... is that after I told her that... I told her what she did.... let me know that when things get hard for her... she runs away... and I have no idea if she has done this in the past or will do it again in the future.. unless she communicates on a deeper level with me. 

She responded by saying... How do I know you won't do it????? I told her BC I am honest and am not like that.... Now that defensiveness makes me worry... that comment shows me that she is still blame shifting and may be trying to gaslight.... as she was for a month after the affair was discovered.... and that was BC she was still talking the the guy for at least a month after the affair was out in the open....

So in a nut shell... her attitude is great.. we are getting along better than we have in 4 or 5 years... she is improving her relationship with my daughter...

But still admits to not being completely honest with me and that she is trying... and will continue to try because she loves me.. I am confused on what to do.. If she can't open up and be an open book I don't want to continue the marriage at all... I can walk away from her at the drop of hat now.. especially since I am starting to feel like a human being again!!! What emotional hell I went through... F- that... I never want to feel like that again... and I never will since my eyes are open now... 

Any advise?????????? 

Not sure what to do... Should i kick her out and tell her she can come back when makes that decision to be completely honest... or ride it out slowly and give her the time she needs to adjust? I just know honesty is a choice BC I am an honest person. She obviously is not.... 

WTH?


----------



## happyman64

jmon

if your wife is showing effort and working on the M with you why kick her out?

It takes time for trust to rebuild. Especially for the one that broke it.

Keep being honest.

Tell her a R cannot take place until the full truth is told and she deals with her affair in an adult manner.

HM


----------



## kenmoore14217

This is only one persons opinion but you probably will end up walking away, divorced.

You want the truth and she seems incapable of telling you the truth to the extent that she would rather see the marriage crash and burn vs. being honest.

As long as you keep this marriage in abeyance she will keep blowing smoke you know where.

Do what's best for you


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## Forest

Well, it seems like she's acting like the wife you want and need now.

The heck of it is why did it take screwing another man to re-awaken these good traits?


----------



## Jmon

happyman64 said:


> jmon
> 
> if your wife is showing effort and working on the M with you why kick her out?
> 
> It takes time for trust to rebuild. Especially for the one that broke it.
> 
> Keep being honest.
> 
> Tell her a R cannot take place until the full truth is told and she deals with her affair in an adult manner.
> 
> HM



I would kick her out BC... I feel like strong actions are the only thing that trigger a response from her. I have little toleration for BS right now... I just went through hell and back while she whimpered and avoided dealing with me... and to the advise of the people here... I called a lawyer and sent her divorce papers... after that her attitude changed dramatically..... I am allowing myself to get close to her again... and really don't want to go further unless she can be completely honest with herself and me.. BC if she can't it will only set us up for future disaster... I love her and especially love my family in tact... but have no fear of life without her... The emotional torture I went through was all her fault and I will not allow it to happen again. Of course what I want is for her to open up completely so we can move on with our lives together in a stronger meaningful marriage.. but Unless she can do that I feel like everything we are doing.. the bonding and re-connecting is a lie... Is it selfish to feel that way? How much toleration should I have for her emotional weakness?? Should I be gentle with her and give her the time she needs??? if she can never open up all the way, Wouldn't I be setting myself up to hurt again??? I can't live in a lie or a marriage that puts deep emotional disturbing issues to the side for the sake of not dealing with them... so that is why I feel like may be I should kick her out. I also can never fully give myself back to her unless the honesty is there... I guess she is starting to deal with them by admitting faults and cooperating with MC in regards to her issues.. but not to the point of complete honesty... and that sucks.. how do you tell someone they are not being completely honest....but are trying to be???? I am worried she will never be able to..


----------



## happy as a clam

Jmon... you are the only one who can decide what level of honesty you need from her. I know that sounds ridiculous, because in marriage we all expect complete honesty, nothing less.

It sounds like she has a lot of baggage from her upbringing that makes her hold everything in. It will likely take years of therapy for her to get to the root of those issues and be able to "trust" you enough (as in feel safe enough) to be completely open and honest. And she may never get to that point.

So, the question is: Now that she is being the wife that you married, is it enough for you, knowing that you may never get more from her than this? In other words, she is only willing to be open to a point which kind of flies in the face of what marriage is supposed to be.

It's really your call, what you can and cannot live with.


----------



## Thound

IMO she is being nice so that you will drop the affair and move as if nothing ever happened. Of course that is a recipe for disaster, and prevent the both of you from a full recovery. The unkown details will eat at you for the rest of your lives. It will always be there under the surface. She will not heal fully either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> Not sure what to do... Should i kick her out and tell her she can come back when makes that decision to be completely honest... or ride it out slowly and give her the time she needs to adjust? I just know honesty is a choice BC I am an honest person. She obviously is not....
> 
> WTH?


That will accomplish nothing. She and your MC have made it clear her FOO made her into someone who hides her feelings. And you're expecting her to throw that all out the window in a few weeks and become some open, sharing person? You can't change a person that fast. If you show her - over a long period of time - that if she shares with you she won't be punished, she'll start sharing more. Her shame and guilt is obvious; that should be enough for now. Try to be patient. Give it until the end of the year, see if things improve. You're in no hurry.


----------



## bigfoot

Just finished reading your posts. With all due respect, wtf?!

Do you call this progress? She cheated, now she won't talk about it and keeps details to herself and you are happy to get 5 kisses and hugs a day? You just wanted her like a security blanket. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but you got a whole lot of nothing. Change MC's to one who is good dealing with infidelity.

Good luck to you, but I don't see healthy relationship progress at all. I see that you got your wife's body back.


----------



## turnera

Jmon said:


> I would kick her out BC... I feel like strong actions are the only thing that trigger a response from her. I have little toleration for BS right now... I just went through hell and back while she whimpered and avoided dealing with me... and to the advise of the people here... I called a lawyer and sent her divorce papers... after that her attitude changed dramatically.....


So your strong action had a result in her ACTIONS. But you're thinking that a strong action will change who she is - reserved, feeling unsafe, not sharing. Those things don't change overnight. If you kick her out, you will have PROVEN to her that it's not safe to be around you. She'll have no reason to open up at that point.

Make it clear to MC that you expect to talk about the affair and if she won't do it in MC, you'll feel she's not remorseful and you'll take that as your cue to dissolve the marriage. Don't try it at home.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Jmon said:


> Any advise??????????


Yes, after you finish sweeping this under the rug don't forget to put the broom away.

Of course, she's going to NOW act like the perfect wife. She just got done banging another guy. Do you really think this act is going to last long term? She's over compensating for not wanting to tell you the truth about what a slvt she acted like. She thinks you'll let it go if she acts nice long enough to you.

If she will not address the root cause (ie the affair she had) then there is nothing to salvage. Secrecy is marriage POISON. It's also utterly selfish. It's memories she shared with OM that she wants to keep for herself. She will not be vulnerable with you and that's damning. She refuses to give you the information you need so you know what you are forgiving. 

She needs to give 100% or you need to move on from this relationship. It's that simple. Either she woman's up and confesses or you man up and divorce her. Take your pick.


----------



## happy as a clam

BetrayedDad said:


> She refuses to give you the information you need *so you know what you are forgiving*.
> 
> She needs to give 100% or you need to move on from this relationship. It's that simple. Either she woman's up and confesses or you man up and divorce her. Take your pick.


^ ^ ^ THIS. :iagree:

You HAVE to know what it is you are actually forgiving. To keep you in the dark, after what she has already put you through, is utterly heartless on her part.

She just doesn't want to "deal."

Too bad. Tell her it's time to put her big girl pants on and act like an adult.


----------



## barbados

As long as she refuses to talk about and give full disclosure about the affair, she is simply rug sweeping the entire thing.

As long as the rug sweeping continues, your marriage in its current state is doomed to failure.


----------



## just got it 55

happyman64 said:


> jmon
> 
> if your wife is showing effort and working on the M with you why kick her out?
> 
> It takes time for trust to rebuild. Especially for the one that broke it.
> 
> Keep being honest.
> 
> Tell her a R cannot take place until the full truth is told and she deals with her affair in an adult manner.
> 
> HM


:iagree:

Yup Her words a meaningless only her responce by what she does

She is wounded and vunerable here too (At least she feels that way) She will come to realize that you are the wounded one if and when she recognizes that you can be on your way to a true R

55


----------



## LongWalk

One of the causes of her depression could well have been that the affair was exciting her, giving her something to look forward to. OM's compliments, sexual pleasure amounted to an escape from her deeper issues.

Her effort to improve relations with your daughter is a tangible positive step towards improving your family life.

Encourage her to go to IC. You might also suggest that she join Surviving Infidelity.com's forum for wayward spouses. She can vent and get advice from folks who have or who are going through what she is. You can tell her you won't go and read her thread, unless she wants you to.

If you are having sex often, that is great.

You mentioned that she smoked. Do you? If you do, quit cold turkey and run to break the nicotine addiction. Don't tell her you are quitting. She'll notice and if she is inspired to follow you, that will be a sign that you are making your lives better.

Read MMSLP. You are doing a good job. Lead your wife. Make her feel secure but she should know that there is zero tolerance for cheating. It is good that you don't aspire to have a revenge affair.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Jmon,

in order to cross a chasm you need to build a bridge, that chasm in this situation is her lies and dishonesty, it is everything that happen that she will not open up too. that bridge (any future will never be stable, no trust can ever be created without that) she is stone walling you as you know, in hopes that you will move on and everything will be okay...this is hard....but you need to man up and force her to either leave or completely tell you everything...and i mean everything that you will need in order to build that bridge.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Thank you for the update.

IMO, her still not (and maybe never)being able to talk about her affair will be what holds you both back from a successful R.

It's obvious to me why she's holding back on this. The details. She doesn't want to give you the details. In the back of her mind she thinks these details will hurt you more. In the front of her mind she doesn't like how these details will make her look to you and anyone else who may hear them.

When a WS starts answering a BS's questions about the affair, what questions inevitably asked? How many times? where and when?

Then the the worst questions of all. What did you do with the OM/OW?...

Sorry ladies, but the next questions are graphic.
Things like was there oral? Did you let him finish in your mouth? Was there anal penetration? Did you let him finish there also? Did the sex ever take place in a public setting? Did the sex ever take place in our home?

If she lets you ask and she truthfully answers yes to one, or more "what did you do" type questions, she knows that things will never be the same again. She knows that you will never look at her the same again.

The problem with her not answer any affair questions is, it makes you feel like it probably yes to most, or all of these questions.

I'm guessing she won't answer because she may have done things with the OM that she rarely, or has never done with you. Even though you may have asked her numerous times.

If so, it's an attempt to try to save what she has with you - But in reality, it'll be what ultimately drive you away.

Sorry, but that's what I see. So you should be number one on your list right now. Take care of you first. Work on yourself, better yourself. Because you can't control what she does and how she feels. You've been replaced before. Be prepared for if it happens again.


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## Jmon

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Thank you for the update.
> 
> IMO, her still not (and maybe never)being able to talk about her affair will be what holds you both back from a successful R.
> 
> It's obvious to me why she's holding back on this. The details. She doesn't want to give you the details. In the back of her mind she thinks these details will hurt you more. In the front of her mind she doesn't like how these details will make her look to you and anyone else who may hear them.
> 
> When a WS starts answering a BS's questions about the affair, what questions inevitably asked? How many times? where and when?
> 
> Then the the worst questions of all. What did you do with the OM/OW?...
> 
> Sorry ladies, but the next questions are graphic.
> Things like was there oral? Did you let him finish in your mouth? Was there anal penetration? Did you let him finish there also? Did the sex ever take place in a public setting? Did the sex ever take place in our home?
> 
> If she lets you ask and she truthfully answers yes to one, or more "what did you do" type questions, she knows that things will never be the same again. She knows that you will never look at her the same again.
> 
> The problem with her not answer any affair questions is, it makes you feel like it probably yes to most, or all of these questions.
> 
> I'm guessing she won't answer because she may have done things with the OM that she rarely, or has never done with you. Even though you may have asked her numerous times.
> 
> If so, it's an attempt to try to save what she has with you - But in reality, it'll be what ultimately drive you away.
> 
> Sorry, but that's what I see. So you should be number one on your list right now. Take care of you first. Work on yourself, better yourself. Because you can't control what she does and how she feels. You've been replaced before. Be prepared for if it happens again.



I don't see this being any issues at all. I am a grown up here and I know what people do when the ****!! 

And no there is really nothing she could have done with him that she has not done with me. 

As I have stated before we have had a very exciting sex life over the years. There really have been no limitations.

I really don't care what they did when the ****ed... But will ask just BC I think it is necessary for her to give up the details in order for her to mature. Not for me to know. At least that is how I feel. I am more interested in building the bridges of trust. I am not really that jealous of a person and the actual act of the intercourse does not bother me that much.. What bothers me are the feelings and justifications involved with her making the decision to cross that line. I am not insecure at all when it comes to my adult time abilities... but maybe I am wrong.. my wife is the only one that knows that and if that is the case.. she needs to tell me that. But i don't think so....Like I said our sex life has been pretty exciting over the years without any limitations. We usually both have a hard time walking after one of those good nights!


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## Jmon

Xenote said:


> Jmon,
> 
> in order to cross a chasm you need to build a bridge, that chasm in this situation is her lies and dishonesty, it is everything that happen that she will not open up too. that bridge (any future will never be stable, no trust can ever be created without that) she is stone walling you as you know, in hopes that you will move on and everything will be okay...this is hard....but you need to man up and force her to either leave or completely tell you everything...and i mean everything that you will need in order to build that bridge.


I could not agree more with this statement.... I am more interested in a women's opinion on how to get her more open. I don't just want to kick her out BC that is an extreme measure. Willing to do it BC I know our marriage will fail without her complete honesty and openness. If she can't do it.. I really don't want to get close to her again.


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## Borntohang

Have you heard from her affair partners wife? 
Since he was a friend of her brothers, how much did he know? 
Did you ever find out how this all started?


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## Jmon

Borntohang said:


> Have you heard from her affair partners wife?
> Since he was a friend of her brothers, how much did he know?
> Did you ever find out how this all started?


No I have not heard from dude's wife... I don't think he knew anything... until my wife told him about it.

My wife told me it started in December after we all went out BC her brother was in town.. and after the bar.. people came back to our house and he was one of the people. After I went to bed.. and after her brother went to bed.. my wife and dude stayed up and "talked" for a bit.. and that is how the relationship started. The Dude.. lives like 3 or 4 hours away from us.. so my wife asked me a couple weeks before we all went out if he could stay the night at our house so he did not have to get a hotel. I told her that was fine as her brother was staying with us anyway. I think they hooked up that night BC the more I asked about what they did after we went to bed... The more she shut down.. 

She at first told me they talked for an hour or so...

Over time I asked her about it again.. (this time when she is sapose to be opening up more several months later)
she said she could not remember what they where talking about and she was falling asleep on the couch and he was rubbing on her leg... and then that was it... she has not told me anything else...in regards to the start of their relationship. she then insisted that nothing else happened.. but I doubt that... 

I mean what can you do with someone that is admitting to not being completely honest.. She will admit that.. she admitted to the affair... and does not want to talk about the details.. I guess in her mind that is enough... And I guess she feels like she is being honest by saying she is not being completely honest. I told her I can't move forward without the complete honesty and she knows this.. and says she is trying.. but not there yet


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## happy as a clam

Jmon said:


> *After I went to bed.*. and after her brother went to bed.. my wife and dude stayed up and "talked" for a bit.. *and that is how the relationship started. *







Jmon said:


> I think they hooked up that night BC the more I asked about what they did after we went to bed... The more she shut down..


 In YOUR own house?
:


Jmon said:


> ...she said she could not remember what they where talking about and she was falling asleep on the couch and he was rubbing on her leg...


Yep... and this is when he "did the dirty" on her leg. In YOUR home. 



Jmon said:


> I mean *what can you do with someone that is admitting to not being completely honest.. *


You DIVORCE THEIR A$$! Just like you started to, but backed off for whatever reason.


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## workindad

Was the night he spent at your house the first time she ever met him? 

If not how well did she know him before that?


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## Jmon

We have known this guy for at least 10 years... he is one of her brothers good friends from college. He is 5 years younger than her.. and that night at my house I did not go to bed until like 5:30 am..


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## Mr Blunt

> *By jmo*n
> Our MC has been very good. She has mostly been talking to the wife and going through her issues about her inability to resolve conflict and not deal with issues and how she keeps everything bottled up. and how that all steamed from her childhood and she feels like most of our problems have steamed from her having those issues and my wife's resentment to-ward my daughter BC of my deep connection to her and her resentment to-ward them for not getting another baby from me.



You state that your MC is good and she has zeroed in on the main problems and you are making good progress


By Jmon



> In a nut shell... with any differences aside (affair being the major one) Things have been great.. she has been damn bear perfect! Since this affair.... I feel closer to her than I have in years..
> 
> By Jmon
> Of course what I want is for her to open up completely so we can move on with our lives together in a stronger meaningful marriage.. but Unless she can do that I feel like everything we are doing.. the bonding and re-connecting is a lie.
> 
> *I really don't care what they did when the ****ed... But will ask just BC I think it is necessary for her to give up the details in order for her to mature*.


For your wife to be open and honest about her deficiencies, face them, and take action to improve them is very important. What you said below and what your MC is working on seems very different than you wanting to know all the details of “…what they did when they ****ed”



> By Jmon
> What bothers me are the feelings and justifications involved with her making the decision to cross that line


.


*Since what you want are her feelings and justification of her decisions how in the hell is asking questions and getting gory details like described below by Groundpounder going to help?* The gory details of her actions in fu***ing are not getting to the root of her deficiencies of her inability to resolve conflict. In fact those gory details may hinder you from your goals and haunt you for the rest of your life. You could be like a moth drawn to the flame. Your wife addressing her childhood issues and being able to resolve her issues is the goal and not rehashing with you how low and disgusting her sex acts were. If that rehashing will help her then let her and the MC work on that. You are not immune to being deeply affected by the description of her gory sick sex acts no matter how strong you tell us you are.


*I can fully understand that you need to have your wife build the trust that she has broken but the gory sick sex details will probably do more harm than good.* Help your wife and the MC get to the internal self-respect that your wife needs. Do not focus on the outwards act that she demonstrated by stooping to gory sick sex acts that did nothing but drive her loathing of herself and her self-resect into more of the sewer that she is in. You would best help yourself by improving yourself in any areas that you have been weakened in so that you will be ok with her or without her.

You are limited in how much you can affect your wife’s deficiencies and the person that is going to make the biggest difference in your wife is your wife not you.* Your wife’s actions for the next several years will be what builds or hurts the rebuilding of trust and that is up to her.*




> *By Groundpunder*
> Then the worst questions of all. What did you do with the OM/OW?...
> 
> Sorry ladies, but the next questions are graphic.
> Things like was there oral? Did you let him finish in your mouth? Was there anal penetration? Did you let him finish there also? Did the sex ever take place in a public setting? Did the sex ever take place in our home?


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## Jmon

I don't nessisarily need to know the gory details.... just that she can be honest. Now I have no idea if they actually hooked up in my house... she has not attend to that. But seems like that would be the case.. I don't know... he was defiently trying... by rubbing her leg. It was close to 6am... and they where really drunk I know that much

I didn't go to bed until 5:30 am.... she said no one wants to talk about their affair... we will see I guess... just going to hard to ever trust her again... and she wants a baby... Mc thinks I should give her one if I am committed to the marriage....I am confused about that though....


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## honcho

Jmon said:


> I don't nessisarily need to know the gory details.... just that she can be honest. Now I have no idea if they actually hooked up in my house... she has not attend to that. But seems like that would be the case.. I don't know... he was defiently trying... by rubbing her leg. It was close to 6am... and they where really drunk I know that much
> 
> I didn't go to bed until 5:30 am.... she said no one wants to talk about their affair... we will see I guess... just going to hard to ever trust her again... and she wants a baby... Mc thinks I should give her one if I am committed to the marriage....I am confused about that though....


A child will solve nothing right now, an MC should see that and putting that on you right now is very questionable in my opinion. A couple weeks ago you were on the verge of divorce, not babies. 

Does your wife believe that if she tells you everything that you would divorce her then? Some do fear that if the size and scope of the affair come to light they will end up in divorce for sure. 

Your spouse sounds like she has always been able to deflect or not face consequences. This is her learned behavior most likely her whole life. She will struggle to be more open because of this.


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## Dogbert

Jmon said:


> she said no one wants to talk about their affair... we will see I guess... just going to hard to ever trust her again... and *she wants a baby... Mc thinks I should give her one if I am committed to the marriage*....I am confused about that though....



So I take it that for the MC, the affair is irrelevant, her "commitment to the marriage" is unimpeachable, and she should be rewarded with a baby? :wtf:

Fire this MC and find one that has experience with helping couples recover from infidelity.


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## Jmon

Not now.. but Mc says marriages can become much stronger after an affiar... and if wife wants a baby..I should do it bc she has been helping raising my 2 kids for 12 years.. and it is selfish of me to not consider this..the MC is more trying to find out what caused Tha marriage to go south...


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## Dogbert

Jmon said:


> Not now.. but Mc says marriages can become much stronger after an affiar... and if wife wants a baby..I should do it bc she has been helping raising my 2 kids for 12 years.. and it is selfish of me to not consider this.


Consider this. Her affair caused major structural damage to the foundation of the marriage and bringing another innocent child under such situation is in itself an extremely selfish act. Any truly qualified professional counselor would ask that his be postponed until the marriage becomes stronger and healthier. So my suggestion still stands, fire this MC.



> the MC is more trying to find out what caused Tha marriage to go south...


Then he/she should look inside your WW's head for no outside force put a gun to her head and pushed her to have an affair. Many wives under similar situation as your wife's never resorted to have an affair when the opportunity presented itself to them. Your wife had an affair because she wanted to plain and simple.


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## Jmon

Yes the MC said that... the MC was not suggesting getting her pregnant now was a good idea... the MC felt like and my wife as well that not giving her a baby... thst she has wanted really bad the last 5 years... caused a ton of resentment to-ward me and my kids... BC she was not getting what she needed out of the marraige... what makes it even worse I'd thar my two kids mom...had 3 new kids during this time... and could not support them and was not help to the two I had with her... so that even made my wife more restful. I can understand that from wife's point of view as well as MC's.... if any women want to chime in on this... that would be good!


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## honcho

Jmon said:


> Not now.. but Mc says marriages can become much stronger after an affiar... and if wife wants a baby..I should do it bc she has been helping raising my 2 kids for 12 years.. and it is selfish of me to not consider this..the MC is more trying to find out what caused Tha marriage to go south...


Highly suggest to the MC that most marriages fail after an affair and you should be focusing on the here and now instead of your possible selfishness about possibly having a child in a shaky marriage at some future point.


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## Jmon

True.. she was talking about the future. ... she feels like her not getting the baby... combined with other issues... caused the resentment that further caused a deteriation in marraige and caused her to stray. Since we where both very happy for 8 years in our realtionship..marriage has been pretty rocky for about 4 years with 2 of them being pretty good and 2 of them being pretty ****ty... the first 6 years of our relationship was damn near perfect. To tell you the truth... I really had all but given up this past year... I pretty much quit myself.mm but had not given up yet... but was close..had a really busy year and went though a lot with a close family member dying ect.... coachin militple sports and on line business... left little room for me to put much effort into my marriage especially since my wife has been being very rude and irate... we had been fighting pretty bad... anyway don't blame myself for the affair but marriage was tanking pretty fast anyway... just saying it was not like we where happy at all.


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## Dogbert

Your wife knew when she accepted you marriage proposal that you and your kids were a one package deal. She should have known that accepting to marry a man with two kids from a previous marriage would not be easy emotionally as well as financially. You gave her a child but that meant an instant three kids family which put a heavy financial burden on the two of you. 

She has nothing to be resentful about for she went into the marriage knowing full well what the situation was and the issues which may come up. Furthermore, it was her responsibility to inform you the extreme importance to her to want two kids with you as a deal breaker for accepting your marriage proposal. But she didn't did she? If there is anybody she should be mad at it is herself.


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## Jmon

She said she wanted kids... I told her I would have one... was going to get snipped after ours... but she did not want me 2 bc she said she may want a nother kid... so I did not... I never agreed to the other kid... but... if the Financials where there I may have... but they where not... and I was super busy with the 3 as it was.... 2 years ago when **** in our marriage was going south... we tired again... I said screw it I am all in... but only lasted a couple of months... and she pissed me off so I quit trying... now with our 10 yr ann... this year.. I was going to tell her we could try again.. but obviously she cheated on me so I didn't even tell her that until last month.. thst I was going to. She screwed that up.. but the messes up thing is now... after this stupid affair... we our marriage has gotten better... not January and February... but March and all of April things have been really good... as I said before... so it is confusing... our marraige is way better now... I am just mad that she is having a very hard time talking about the affair itself... I need something to build trust with her... funny thing is with differed aside we get along great... wierd.. but he'll I can't explain it ... I guess I am a forgiving person and she realized she ****ed up... nd is working hard to make up for it in every day life with me. And she is agmdrssing her issues that caused marriatal problems way b4 the affair... I know counterintuitive.... but after she saw those divorce papers she shaped up really quick..


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## Dogbert

Jmon said:


> I guess I am a forgiving person and she realized she ****ed up... nd is working hard to make up for it in every day life with me. And she is agmdrssing her issues that caused marriatal problems way b4 the affair... I know counterintuitive.... but after she saw those divorce papers she shaped up really quick..


But she is refusing to work hard where it counts for YOU, which is total honesty and transparency. If you don't make it clear to her that this a deal breaker for you, she will continue doing things that will amount to nothing more than window dressing and will return to the way things were before the affair. She has to know you are serious enough with this to pull the plug on the marriage.


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## Jmon

That is why I was thinking about kicking her out. She says she is trying but is difficult bla bla bla.. I am trying to have some respect for her... bit it is hard. She has promises to try harder in regards to being more open.. and has been little by little.. I am just inpatient.. so I am stepping up the tempo


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## Lostinthought61

Respect is earned....can you honestly tell us that she deserve respect after deceit, after blame shifting, after rug sweeping?


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## Mr Blunt

> By Jmon
> I don't necessarily need to know the gory details.... just that she can be honest. Now I have no idea if they actually hooked up in my house... she has not attend to that. But seems like that would be the case.. I don't know... he was defiently trying... by rubbing her leg. It was close to 6am... and they where really drunk I know that much
> 
> I didn't go to bed until 5:30 am.... she said no one wants to talk about their affair... we will see I guess... just going to hard to ever trust her again... and she wants a baby... Mc thinks I should give her one if I am committed to the marriage....I am confused about that though....



Your wife has admitted to rejecting you, replacing you with the OM, and screwing that man. What more do you need to know so that you can take actions for you to help yourself? Frankly, I think that you should work on yourself so that you are able to live with her or without her. *In other words spend your energy getting yourself to be more self-sufficient. Only you can get you better and only she can get herself better.* Sure others can help, maybe, but it always boils down the individual. If you and your wife make your R work or if you D you will be better off by you getting stronger in the areas that help you be more sufficient within yourself. You helping her is limited but you helping you is unlimited.


*You want to trust her again. How is her talking about the affair going to help that? What are the things that you want her to talk about; be very specific.* Maybe talk will help some but setting boundaries and watching her actions and attitude for a long time can do a lot either for or against gaining trust.

Her getting her deficiencies improved and demonstrating for years that she has changed will improve your trust in her. She can tell you about her affair non-stop for the next 100 days and that will not put much trust in her because how do you know what she is telling you is true? You just do not have the trust in her at this time and cannot get it back in a few months of talking. *Talk cannot be trusted but actions for a long time are very good indicators of truth!*


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## Decorum

Jmon said:


> *She still will not give any details up about her relationship with this guy*... she gave me a very general picture...
> 
> 
> 
> *But she did admit that she is having a very hard time being open and completely honest about everything* and she said she is trying and that should account for something..... Ok then?????
> 
> 
> So... *why she would really be continuing to conceal secrets *when I have told her everything is between us... and told her we have to go though this BC I will never trust her again unless I know she can tell me anything.
> 
> *There are likely several reasons,
> 1.The truth will change the way you see her.
> 
> Having sex with the man in your house, while you were asleep and your children were there is beyond disrespectful, selfish, and irresponsible.
> 
> 2.She will have to detail her enthusiasm and enjoyment of their sex and you will never get over it.
> 
> (BTW he is smaller than you, it wasn't any good, and it was award and lame, and she was to dry to enjoy it). She does not want to answer these questions and have to lie some more.
> 
> 3. She more than likely (at some point) trash talked you to him and does not want to own that.
> 
> 4. Anything she tells you may become public knowledge (your promises notwithstanding) and she wants to avoid the shame and repercussions of her actions in that way
> *
> 
> 
> *So she admits to not being completely honest*... she said she is trying and will continue to try BC she loves me... OK how do you try to be honest??? Should I take a firm stance on this... or let her wind it out as she is??? Is there a possible hidden agenda?
> 
> 
> 
> What worries me here... is that after I told her that... I told her what she did.... let me know that when things get hard for her... she runs away... and I have no idea if she has done this in the past or* will do it again in the future.. unless she communicates on a deeper level with me. *
> *If she is willing to work with you in counseling this can become a workable situation*
> 
> She responded by saying... How do I know you won't do it????? I told her BC I am honest and am not like that.... Now that defensiveness makes me worry... *that comment shows me that she is still blame shifting and may be trying to gaslight.*... as she was for a month after the affair was discovered.... and that was BC she was still talking the the guy for at least a month after the affair was out in the open....
> 
> 
> 
> *But still admits to not being completely honest with me and that she is trying*... and will continue to try because she loves me.. I am confused on what to do.. If she can't open up and be an open book I don't want to continue the marriage at all... I can walk away from her at the drop of hat now.. especially since I am starting to feel like a human being again!!! What emotional hell I went through... F- that... I never want to feel like that again... and I never will since my eyes are open now...
> 
> Any advise??????????
> 
> *If you do not get the truth now you will likely never get it.
> She is choosing to not tell and you are agreeing to it, stop making excuses for her. This has nothing to do with her problem solving skills, it is a dearth in motivation.
> 
> Her running away from problems is actually something that can be well addressed in counseling, there is hope for that if she is willing to put the work in.
> 
> She is still trickle truthing you and she will only tell you as much as she think she has to to keep her status. She has set the rules for this interaction, its her chosen approach, play by those rules and print off the PDF and file!
> 
> Some WS will take the risk and be fully honest realizing that its their only hope, knowing that it may just end it as well. They accept the responsibility for their actions. She is not doing that. With this lack of transparency what do you think her "vision" of your future marriage looks like?*
> 
> Not sure what to do... Should i kick her out and tell her she can come back when makes that decision to be completely honest... or ride it out slowly and give her the time she needs to adjust? I just know honesty is a choice BC I am an honest person. She obviously is not....
> 
> *No don't do that, just start the clock ticking, file!
> 
> Your position should be..."I can see that you are concerned that if you answer all the questions I ask and give me all the details I need that you are afraid it will tank any chance we have. I can promise you this, anything you tell me in an effort to be transparent is something that I will do my best to deal with in a way that will be for the good of our relationship, and I can promise you something else as well, I will not be able to survive in this relationship with out that transparency, you are just going to have to trust me and take the risk!"*
> 
> WTH?
> 
> *Don't leave this for the counselor, you must take action and give consequences at this point to set your boundaries. Don't let others set them for you.*
> 
> *Finally answer the question...Where do you see yourself 5 years from now?
> 
> Take care!*





.


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## Jmon

Decorum said:


> .



I would like to keep my family in tact and possibly extend it. That is where I would like to see myself in 5 years. But for our marriage to continue and get to that point... My wife has to do a lot of changing. I have no problem with the truth. I am not a jealous person. I just want and need to know that my wife can and will be an honest person moving forward and she is having a hard time with COMPLETE honesty. I really hope she can change that. I will give her another week or so and if things don't change maybe I should actually file for the Divorce. I will think about some more. I know a man's perspective can be different from a women's. So I am also taking head to any advise given from women here. 

Now if my wife can't do what she needs in order to prove her honesty.. then in 5 years I am not sure what I will be doing.. but I know I will not be married to her.


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## ButtPunch

You need several years to recover from her affair. A child has got to be out of the question. I sense a sort of desperation to save your marriage in your posts. Understand....even now your marriage is likely over. Your best chance at saving it is too respect yourself.


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## turnera

Jmon said:


> I would like to keep my family in tact and possibly extend it. That is where I would like to see myself in 5 years. But for our marriage to continue and get to that point... My wife has to do a lot of changing. I have no problem with the truth. I am not a jealous person. I just want and need to know that my wife can and will be an honest person moving forward and she is having a hard time with COMPLETE honesty. I really hope she can change that. I will give her another week or so and if things don't change maybe I should actually file for the Divorce. I will think about some more. I know a man's perspective can be different from a women's. So I am also taking head to any advise given from women here.
> 
> Now if my wife can't do what she needs in order to prove her honesty.. then in 5 years I am not sure what I will be doing.. but I know I will not be married to her.


You need to be telling her this exactly, in MC.


----------

