# Marriage counseling



## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

Some of you have read my story - I’ve received some good feedback. Some hurtful to hear but honest - so thank you. I have reached out to my wife about marriage counseling and she refuses to go. We’ve been to some counseling in the past and she sees no value in it. And gets very agitated when it’s brought up. I do see a counselor one on one and she has issues with me going not sure why? Any thoughts or advice?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Is the individual counseling helping you? If it is, stick with it.

Would you wife read any books? There are several good marriage books that are often more effective than counseling. Two of them are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: Marriage Counseling*

I came down pretty hard on you, Spartan, and I'm glad you reached out to your wife, but she couldn't relate to your reaching out being the subject of marriage counseling. On a whole, almost everybody rejects that idea when it's presented to them. And your wife has at least 2 reason to reject it. One is that she didn't find marriage counseling helpful in the past. I don't know her reasons since obviously I wasn't there in the sessions and she's not here to explain it to us. But that's the way she feels, and I expect it's not just her imagination. Some counselors are quite good but some are terrible. Her other reason is that you see a counselor and since she's seen no change in you, then that's another reason she feels there is no value in counseling.

I don't recall you mentioning in your thread last week that you see a counselor. It's great that you do, but I would suggest you find someone else. Like I said, some are good and some are not so see someone else if for no other reason than to get a second opinion/approach. I don't understand you seeing someone and behaving toward your wife the way you do and blaming her. That's not the way it goes, so why hasn't your counselor helped you to see that? The purpose of counseling is to examine one's feelings, actions, and motivations, so it doesn't appear you made progress. And that's the way your wife would feel. As I said before, I'm not blaming you for the problems in your marriage. I don't feel either of you are to blame. I think you both needed help and tools in working through your problems. At the same time, you have to take responsibility for your own actions, as well as understand that your actions have consequences. So I have to wonder how long you've been in counseling and suggest again that you find someone else. In most marriages that have problems, each person has to know that the other person can't be expected to do all the changing but that they have to be willing to change themselves too. It might be helpful to look at your marriage in terms of what you get out of it is directly related to what you put into it.

I keep feeling like the things you do and say are counterproductive. You have to be open to accepting that more constructive actions are available to you. Such as in this case, you said you reached out to your wife, but suggesting counseling is not reaching out in a constructive way, so you can't use that as evidence that you have changed. Based on what you told us, I can understand her not having any faith in counseling and not wanting to be bothered with it but based on things you stated before, you will say you have changed but she refuses since she won't go to counseling. You suggesting counseling doesn't qualify as you having changed, and her refusal doesn't make her the one to blame.

Find another counselor and you be the one to change. That's where you have to begin. if you refuse to make that effort, then please don't blame her for it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Spartan01 said:


> Some of you have read my story - I’ve received some good feedback. Some hurtful to hear but honest - so thank you. I have reached out to my wife about marriage counseling and she refuses to go. We’ve been to some counseling in the past and she sees no value in it. And gets very agitated when it’s brought up. I do see a counselor one on one and she has issues with me going not sure why? Any thoughts or advice?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some people are paranoid about outsiders knowing their stuff.

It's perhaps the way they were raised, bad previous experiences or they might have something to hide that they think a counsellor might ferret out of them.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

It can be really easy to mistake "I think we should go to marriage counseling" for "There's something wrong with you and I want a professional to make sure you know it." Particularly if the latter actually is the apparent goal, either now or at any time in the past, of the one who's pushing for the MC. If, in an argument or a fit of temper, you've ever told your wife she's being ridiculous, irrational or too emotional, or acting crazy, then she may believe you're asking for MC because you want the MC to tell her how crazy she is and all the ways she needs fixing. 

Now, there may be something wrong with your wife that she does need to fix. Or there may not be. But I suggest trying very hard to re-frame what she's doubtless hearing (_I want a professional to help me beat you up for your feelings_) into something closer to what you goal should be: Fixing the unhealthy marital dynamic that you're both contributing to. Tell her that you're unhappy with the marriage but that you know she's unhappy too. And that you really want to learn better ways of handling your marriage so that it's healthy and happy for _both_ of you. Do whatever you can to turn this problem into one that you and your wife are facing together, into the two of you as a team vs. the problems in your marriage, rather than a you vs. her situation. 

If she just isn't willing to go, no matter what, it may just be that your marriage is past saving. But I would suggest first making sure she knows that the status quo is going to eventually lead to the end of your marriage, that you don't want that to happen, and that the two of you can work together to change things so that you're both happy.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Spartan, you'll have to be careful about your choice of counselors. Some of them are just plain nuts. As I have said elsewhere, if you want to see crazy in action, go to a gathering of MSWs.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

What does _she_ suggest to help your marriage then?


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## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

Spicy said:


> What does _she_ suggest to help your marriage then?




Nothing - I think she’s left it up to me on changing. 


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Spartan01 said:


> Nothing - I think she’s left it up to me on changing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Changing what exactly--everything you? You have been 'suffering' and seeking help for some time. She doesn't want marriage counseling, or changing herself. Does she want the status quo? 

@skerzoid offered excellent list in your first thread, but you are not ready.

Seems to me each of you wants the other to change. This is a poor excuse for a marriage currently. Most women want intimacy and connection, but yours doesn't? 

If something doesn't seriously change, you will be here in 5 years with same story except youngest will be ready to leave home maybe? You will still feel empty, more alone, older. I feel bad for your indecision.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Spartan01 said:


> Nothing - I think she’s left it up to me on changing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm that happened to my husband and his former wife. She wanted a separation so that HE could change. Well as it turned out, she then met another man who she wanted to marry, he didn't and it ended. Her former husband on the other hand married me 13 years ago and has a very happy marriage. Not him that needed to change at all. :wink2:


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Just look for an individual counselor for yourself. If she ever wants to get help, she will need her own counselor anyway. It is not a good idea for married people to share an IC, or have the same MC because of the danger of the counselor taking sides. If you start getting healthier, and not playing her games anymore, she might get scared you will leave the marriage and suddenly want marriage counseling.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Spartan01 said:


> Some of you have read my story - I’ve received some good feedback. Some hurtful to hear but honest - so thank you. I have reached out to my wife about marriage counseling and she refuses to go. We’ve been to some counseling in the past and she sees no value in it. And gets very agitated when it’s brought up. I do see a counselor one on one and she has issues with me going not sure why? Any thoughts


*I'd be forced to guess that no one really relishes the thought of being talked about with a third party present! And primarily out of insecurity!*


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Spartan01 said:


> Spicy said:
> 
> 
> > What does _she_ suggest to help your marriage then?
> ...


Then maybe you should change your address. Or better yet, hers!


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

My x thought all the changing needed to be on me......At first I bought into it then reality set in and I realized she was the damaged one and I was being manipulated. Good riddance to bad rubbish. You might want to re-think your willingness to put up with her manipulation. Life is too short.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm personally not someone who thinks much of counselling, but that's just me. I do think that couple and marital issues can really only be worked on together. Someone seeing a counsellor on their own about marriage problems, and taking advice from someone who's only getting one side of the story seems odd to me.

But that's just me...I know that there are many people who feel they benefitted greatly from it.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Frusdil hit it on the head! It takes two people to work on a marriage, not one. I know, some people just simply cannot see it that way. Perhaps she's checked out.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Betrayedone said:


> My x thought all the changing needed to be on me......At first I bought into it then reality set in and I realized she was the damaged one and I was being manipulated. Good riddance to bad rubbish. You might want to re-think your willingness to put up with her manipulation. Life is too short.


What manipulation would that be?



Araucaria said:


> Just look for an individual counselor for yourself. If she ever wants to get help, she will need her own counselor anyway. It is not a good idea for married people to share an IC, or have the same MC because of the danger of the counselor taking sides. If you start getting healthier, and not playing her games anymore, she might get scared you will leave the marriage and suddenly want marriage counseling.


What games would those be?



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Then maybe you should change your address. Or better yet, hers!


Change her address why?

Some of you guys are projecting your own circumstances into Spartan's life - or pulling them out of your imagination - because not one of these responses apply to him, his wife, or their situation as far as he has told us. In fact, he told us that she has extended herself to him and at least three different times he rejected her. So, if you didn't read his other thread or don't remember it, then why are you responding to him like this? It is not at all helpful to him to feed into his own determination that she is the one who has to change. They are both thinking the same thing. It's not all on her, but he blames her for everything despite his own contributions, and he blames her for that too.

To recap for anyone interested in a refresher:
Spartan and his wife had issues in the bedroom. She didn't want to have sex until it got the point that he didn't want to ask. The last time they did, he stopped in the middle of it because she wasn't enjoying it and that made him angry. It is only in pornography that women ooh and ahh and scream and holler during sex if she's not enjoying it, but those types of movies have many men thinking that is automatically what women are supposed to do. Some women do pretend to enjoy it in order to stroke his ego, but they generally get tired of faking after a while. So, if she doesn't enjoy it, then sex becomes a chore she doesn't want to have to do. But that she doesn't enjoy it is not something a man should get angry about because her enjoyment is not automatic even though he thinks it is or wants it to be. This is the reason I often try to help guys here to understand what makes a woman tick and what makes sex enjoyable for her. Unfortunately, some of you guys just want to get your feelings hurt to discover you are not the sex gods you thought you were and accuse me of having an agenda against men. Yes, I hate men. That makes so much sense and is the reason I try to help in that manner since that is the only thing that makes sense to some of you.

Spartan and his wife needed, and still need, some way to address and solve their sexual dysfunction. But Spartan's reaction to it was to get angry, reject her, and blame her for all of it when neither of them are to blame. He left his wife in bed that last time and imposed a 14-month moratorium on their marriage by sleeping on the sofa and refusing her advances, and then came here blaming her that it's been 14 months since they had sex because she hasn't asked him to come back to bed. So, who is the manipulator here? Who is playing games?

This man is desperate for help, but it's not helpful to jump on everybody's wagon that comes here complaining. In neither thread, this one nor the first one, did he say anything about his wife that some of you have accused her of doing. She certainly hasn't done anything that justifies anyone telling him to kick her out of her home. 

Would you please stop projecting your own miserable circumstances and imaginations onto her?

The logical thing for him to do, since he's the one who came here, is for him to change himself, and perhaps he will begin to notice a change in her. As long as they both think the other has to be the one to change, the stalemate will continue as it has been for as long as they each allow it.

Honestly, Spartan, you have to do something. And I hope you will stop listening to these people who have no idea what they are talking about. Surely you have heard the saying "Be the change you want to see." That applies to you too. You said you don't think you ever loved your wife, but you obviously want help with your marriage. So get help and stop thinking she has to do it. You can't make her because she's as fed up as you are, maybe more so. You be the one to do it. Something has to change, and change always has to begin somewhere. Stop looking at her and look at yourself. EleGirl suggested some good books that you, not your wife, can start with. Read them and apply the principles. And get yourself a different counselor since the one you are seeing is not helping.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Spartan01 said:


> Nothing - I think she’s left it up to me on changing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This, right here.......


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Betrayedone said:


> This, right here.......


Having good reasons for not wanting to go to counseling is no reason to be accused of manipulation. But if you insist on being right, rather than conceding that you were mistaken, read too much into it, and projected your own situation with your ex, then I expect you will find that and everything else as good enough reason for anything you want to accuse of her doing. And where that's concerned anyway, he also expects her to be the one to change and has been saying it in both threads. Like I said, they are both doing the same thing. But I guess that's her manipulation too if you insist.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm glad you set me straight........


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Spartan, you said in your other thread that you had a consult with a divorce attorney scheduled.

I'll assume that 'lawyer appt.' you had was really just a ploy, hoping it would light a fire under your wife's ass and that she would suddenly not despise you anymore and want to have sex with you again.

Not sure why you continue to desperately cling to a dead marriage to someone who acts as though she couldn't care less if you fell off the face of the earth or not, but this is what a lot of men do. Your wife obviously benefits from having you around or she would have been gone a long time ago. I'll assume it's likely for financial reasons.

Aren't you tired of being treated like the redheaded stepchild? Jesus.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Honestly, Spartan, you have to do something. And I hope you will stop listening to these people who have no idea what they are talking about. Surely you have heard the saying "Be the change you want to see." That applies to you too. You said you don't think you ever loved your wife, but you obviously want help with your marriage. So get help and stop thinking she has to do it. You can't make her because she's as fed up as you are, maybe more so. You be the one to do it. Something has to change, and change always has to begin somewhere. Stop looking at her and look at yourself. EleGirl suggested some good books that you, not your wife, can start with. Read them and apply the principles. And get yourself a different counselor since the one you are seeing is not helping.


It sounds like he is the one trying to initiate change in the relationship and he is getting nothing in return.

But yes, books...read Positive Masculinity, then dump your starfish wife and game women. If the problem persisits that they don't like sex with you then you will know you are the problem.

Bottom line is this. He doesn't care for his wife and she doesn't care for him. She doesn't want or enjoy sex with him and they have a dead bedroom. He sleeps on the couch because they don't want to be near each other. You can try to resurrect the dead but if she can't even meet you half way and go to MC with you then its on her. 

File and end your misery.


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