# Help! My Wife Doesn't Respect Me



## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

I really could do with some advice.

One main issue for me is the fact my wife shows me absolutely no respect. I am a very hard working man, and I always put her first. I constantly do nice romantic things for her, and treat her with the respect I would any other person. With me, it's a completely different story. When she upsets me she gets angry at the fact I am upset, and then comes the huge amount of rage, screaming, crying, shouting, and telling me to f*** off constantly. Even after arguments that last for half an hour she still refuses to apologise, and then finally when she does, she seems to think that's fine. The problem is for me, the apology doesn't mean anything because next week she will curse at me, scream, yell, and throw one of her tamper tantrums yet again.

I'm not really sure where to turn here? Unfortunately over the last 3 years I have had a lot of health problems with depression and anxiety, which have been a strain. I feel as though because I have had health issues she thinks I am weak, and treats me that way. I wish I could feel fine all of the time, I really do, but anyone who has experienced these things will know how debilitating it is. I could go on and on about our relationships and other issues I have, however I think it's probably best I give you a typical scenario of what happens, this happened last night and has carried on through to today.

Last night she commented on an old photo of me, and basically put me down because she said I looked a lot older, and had less hair. Now yes, this is true and I can accept that - but ladies, imagine me picking up the same photo and saying "You've aged and you've put quite a lot of weight on haven't you?" — she can't seem to gage why that upset me. So once this had happened, she got angry again because I was upset, and she refused to acknowledge the fact I was, she just got into a huge rage over everything. This morning she said sorry again, and then when she got to work I basically told her we have to do something about this anger issue she has had as long as I can remember, and also the lack of respect. She also hardly EVER comes on to me sexually, we have a good sex life but I always have to instigate or to basically moan about it for something to be done. She says she is just like that and doesn't think about being the first person to make the move, but I don't believe that. Is she not attracted to me, I know it's hard to tell given we are all different but it shatters my confidence and I think part of the reason I am a bit at rock bottom is because my own woman doesn't make me feel like I am wanted, respected, and attractive.

Just to give you an idea of the kind of conversations we have here are our messages from today, I am quite angry in places here but it's just frustration, please let me know what you think...


ME:
I think we need to go and get some professional help, I'm sorry but I can't deal with the childish tempter tantrums and the huge amount of anger anymore, they make me act in the same way back because I don't know what to do, I feel scared, and frustrations sets in at the fact I can't get any of my points across. I'm not going to put up with being spoken to that way, it's feels like a form of wanting power and control over me and it leaves me feeling depressed, upset, and hugely disrespected. I am a man and I deserve to be treated like one, not shouted and screamed at like some kind of animal. When you fail to acknowledge the fact I am upset it makes me feel as though I'm not cared about. I'm sure that kind of behaviour may have worked when you were younger with your parents but it's just not acceptable in a marriage. I appreciate your sorry but when this keeps on happening and has for a very long time, something needs to be done about it, I can't live my life this way it's making me ill. I know you get upset and I understand that but it's the full blown rage, failure to acknowledge any wrong doing, the yelling at me, talking down to me, and the telling me to **** off which is just too much, I don't think you realise how bad it is, can we do something about it together? It needs sorting out, are you willing to go to heather to talk about it? I need a happy calm life I can't live in fear of doing something wrong, and be made to feel disrespected and tiny constantly because I'm not falling in line with expectations, it's making me sick.

WIFE:
I'm sorry don't know what else to say

ME:
So you expect me to respect you, but you won’t respect me in return? It’s no wonder you show no interest to be honest, I’m too much of a soft touch and a walk over for you, I’m easy right? And that’s not attractive is it. Sometimes I don’t know who you think you are to be honest, put up with this **** for too long
Maybe you want out and are too chicken **** to say it, and that’s why you couldn’t care less about my feelings.

WIFE:
You just decided I'm a bad person so what's the point in me trying to convince you otherwise. I'm a control freak who enjoys upsetting you

ME:
Wow

WIFE:
See you say it again 'I don't care' what would you know. Upsetting me at work are you trying your hardest to break me into pieces. I'm fed up of having to reassure and justify myself all the time. I'm am who I am you are who you are. We know that after 10 yrs why we have to keep going over and over. Yes I'm sorry I upset you but you chose to take what I was saying the wrong way too.

ME:
You don’t respect me, it’s not a simple you’ve upset me. It’s a complete lack of respect.

WIFE:
I'll never be good enough for you. I'm no good for anyone. You just hate me like everyone else. Thanks for making me cry at work. Leave me alone


For my own sanity and health, I really have to do something about this now. I love this woman, don't get me wrong but when she turns into this other person it just makes me feel tiny, and it does affect me in a big way. We've both had our issues, however as you will tell from above i am willing to confront my demons and work on myself, I don't live in denial like she does and pretend it's all ok. It's obviously not okay, and I don't want to leave I want to be happy, but I don't know what to do or how to act now. Can anyone give me any advice at all?

I feel like everything has gone against me over the past few years, not in any kind of feel sorry for myself way but just having to deal with everything. Could this relationship be making me sick without realising it? I love this woman but she makes me feel like a shadow of myself.

Thanks for listening!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Ah83 said:


> ME:
> I think we need to go and get some professional help, I'm sorry but I can't deal with the childish tempter tantrums and the huge amount of anger anymore, they make me act in the same way back because I don't know what to do, I feel scared, and frustrations sets in at the fact I can't get any of my points across. I'm not going to put up with being spoken to that way, it's feels like a form of wanting power and control over me and it leaves me feeling depressed, upset, and hugely disrespected. I am a man and I deserve to be treated like one, not shouted and screamed at like some kind of animal. When you fail to acknowledge the fact I am upset it makes me feel as though I'm not cared about. I'm sure that kind of behaviour may have worked when you were younger with your parents but it's just not acceptable in a marriage. I appreciate your sorry but when this keeps on happening and has for a very long time, something needs to be done about it, I can't live my life this way it's making me ill. I know you get upset and I understand that but it's the full blown rage, failure to acknowledge any wrong doing, the yelling at me, talking down to me, and the telling me to **** off which is just too much, I don't think you realise how bad it is, can we do something about it together? It needs sorting out, are you willing to go to heather to talk about it? I need a happy calm life I can't live in fear of doing something wrong, and be made to feel disrespected and tiny constantly because I'm not falling in line with expectations, it's making me sick.
> 
> WIFE:
> ...


I indicated what I think her response SHOULD have been in your talk. Also bolded where I think you went off the rails a little bit. She didn't say she expects you to respect her but she won't respect you. I mean, she kinda showed it by dismissing everything you said, and your request to get help, but if you'd responded with a simple, "What I'd like you to say is that you'll get help with me," the conversation may have not turned into so much of a pity party. Your wife is being immature....oh woe is me, everyone hates me, I might as well eat worms.....

These are not words of a woman who thinks highly of herself. They are the words of someone who knows she is wrong, but is afraid to address it and get help for herself. 

You may need to issue an ultimatum.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like each of you is looking for leadership and understanding from the other, instead of trying to provide it for the other. To me it looks like a marriage of two emotional submissives.

I am surprised you have a sex life at all, much less a good one.

If I did not respect my husband, I would not be married to him, much less having sex with him. If he were needy and whiny, and asking me to fix things, instead of looking at himself first, and how he could improve our relationship, I would not feel respect for him.

I bet your wife feels like she has been pretty patient with you. 

If I were you, I would start practicing Active Listening in a big way. Look past her tone, and focus on her underlying message: she does not feel understood and appreciated. Active Listening should help her feel understood. If she feels understood, she is more likely to be open to trying to understand _you_, without immediately feeling defeated and blamed, and becoming defensive.

I would skip ultimatums, threats, punishments, etc. I would just go with inspiring her respect, first through working on yourself, and secondly, approaching her with empathy, not demands.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

What an absolute load of rubbish. So, you're telling me that if your Husband didn't show you any respect at all, it's all because you're not Actively Listening to him?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP you start your thread with "I could use some advice ..." and when JLD tries to give you just that, you respond aggressively. Do you not see that in itself as a problem ?

JLD is trying to tell you to look past the perceived disrespect and see what else might be staring you in the face. Remember you can never ask for respect. True respect is always earned.

For example, you can threaten a kid to respect their elders but in the end it always has to be earned.

Is it even remotely possible that there is more to this than simply my wife doesn't respect me ? JLD has given you very good advice on the active listening bit.

Start by actively listening to her advice!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> What an absolute load of rubbish. So, you're telling me that if your Husband didn't show you any respect at all, it's all because you're not Actively Listening to him?


If he did not show me any respect, we would not be married. 

He practices active listening with me frequently, and just empathy in general. It is what makes me feel loved and understood. All that makes me want to give back to him. This interplay makes for a harmonious, loving marriage. 

Ah, I think you are going to get two general types of responses here. Most will be telling you that you are justified in your anger and need to set boundaries and show her who is boss. You will be encouraged to use "consequences" to establish and maintain control.

The other response, usually in the minority here on TAM, will be along the lines of what I told you: Inspire her trust and respect by improving your character and showing her empathy.

Best of luck with whichever approach you choose.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> OP you start your thread with "I could use some advice ..." and when JLD tries to give you just that, you respond aggressively. Do you not see that in itself as a problem ?
> 
> JLD is trying to tell you to look past the perceived disrespect and see what else might be staring you in the face. Remember you can never ask for respect. True respect is always earned.
> 
> ...


Well said, manfromlamancha.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

jld said:


> If he did not show me any respect, we would not be married.
> 
> He practices active listening with me frequently, and just empathy in general. It is what makes me feel loved and understood. All that makes me want to give back to him. This interplay makes for a harmonious, loving marriage.
> 
> ...


Ok, you do have a point, however I personally think it's a bit of both. I have asked her to tell me why, and have also asked her if she wants to talk about it so I can start to try and understand? Yes, I get the threatening for respect won't work, however on the flip-side, it does leave me feeling like I deserve better. I know it takes 2 to tango, and there are always 2 sides to a story, so if she refuses to talk, what then?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> Ok, you do have a point, however I personally think it's a bit of both.* I have asked her to tell me why, and have also asked her if she wants to talk about it *so I can start to try and understand? Yes, I get the threatening for respect won't work, however on the flip-side, it does leave me feeling like I deserve better. I know it takes 2 to tango, and there are always 2 sides to a story, so if she refuses to talk, what then?


Are you familiar with active listening? Because the bolded does not sound like it to me.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

OP if I were in your shoes I would start with myself first

55


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Ah83 said:


> I always put her first.


So sad. Another XY chromosome human is castrated and assumes beta status. 

I had to stop reading here. 

The end is near.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

"Respect is given when respect is earned."

In my life this has always been true.

I am certain it is in yours as well.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I really could do with some advice.
> 
> One main issue for me is the fact my wife shows me absolutely no respect. I am a very hard working man, and I always put her first. I constantly do nice romantic things for her, and treat her with the respect I would any other person. With me, it's a completely different story. When she upsets me she gets angry at the fact I am upset, and then comes the *huge amount of rage, screaming, crying, shouting, and telling me to f*** off constantly*. Even after arguments that last for half an hour she still refuses to apologise, and then finally when she does, she seems to think that's fine. The problem is for me, the apology doesn't mean anything because next week she will curse at me, scream, yell, and throw one of her tamper tantrums yet again.
> 
> ...


When you try to discuss how your DW's behavior is affecting you, she assumes the victim posture. Active listening will not remedy this abuse. OP, you are 100% correct, you need IC to figure this out.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Constable Odo said:


> So sad. Another XY chromosome human is castrated and assumes beta status.
> 
> I had to stop reading here.
> 
> The end is near.


Coming from a machine man with a machine mind? Constable-know-it-all?


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

I don't know what Actively Listening is, can you explain?


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> When you try to discuss how your DW's behavior is affecting you, she assumes the victim posture. Active listening will not remedy this abuse. OP, you are 100% correct, you need IC to figure this out.


Can you expand please? Also, thank you for the kind response. Pr*cks like constable know it all, don't do anyone a favour.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> When you try to discuss how your DW's behavior is affecting you, she assumes the victim posture. Active listening will not remedy this abuse. OP, you are 100% correct, you need IC to figure this out.


Abuse implies that she has power over him, and that she is misusing it. I think she is just crying out for understanding.

If she has power over him, it is only because he gives it to her. He can stop that. He can instead work on his own issues and reach out in empathy to her.

I think active listening is a prime tool for getting this marriage on a healthier track. Much cheaper than IC, though that could be helpful, too.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP I must say that I am impressed with your turnaround approach on tackling this - active listening is a powerful technique that doesn't necessarily mean you drive or lead the conversation but take from what is being said.

I wish you luck and success.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> OP I must say that I am impressed with your turnaround approach on tackling this - active listening is a powerful technique that doesn't necessarily mean you drive or lead the conversation but take from what is being said.
> 
> I wish you luck and success.


Thanks, but unfortunately as I am not a councillor I don't really have any experience in this. I think I understand what active listening is, but how does that remedy anything?

Luckily for me, I put my foot down (whether that is right or wrong) and my wife has agreed to come to see a councillor to sort this out. We can't just ignore it, however it manifests.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Take a look again at the sections I bolded. This is not a woman who is misunderstood, this is someone foisting abuse because she can. I agree with JLD that you are enabling this abuse. The entire purpose of IC is for you to recognize how you are contributing to this behavior and set proper boundaries with your DW. We deal with abuse not with appeasement but with firm boundaries. Your DW is free to be who she wants to be, and you are free to decide if you want her as a partner. 

Surrender attempts at control ... accept you cannot change your DW's behavior, only your own.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

It seems as though it might not be that simple now. After she agreed to see the councillor, I said....

ME:
Well I think we can both agree that we’re not communicating properly. I am making you feel victimised, and you’re making me feel disrespected, so we need some help with it right?

and I just got this in reply...

WIFE:
Yep


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Seeing an experienced counsellor is not a bad thing - good step to take! The active listening may help you translate what you perceive to be disrespect into other issues that she is trying to communicate and almost certainly, badly. She probably has other issues like communication skills, empathy with your feelings etc and may appear more disrespectful than she wanted.

We are all just struggling with similar issues so there are not that many experts here. Some have a better understanding than others - I think JLD is one. Very compassionate person from what I see. And more right about things than wrong (JLD you can mail me my cheque later :smile2


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> Take a look again at the sections I bolded. This is not a woman who is misunderstood, this is someone foisting abuse because she can. I agree with JLD that you are enabling this abuse. The entire purpose of IC is for you to recognize how you are contributing to this behavior and set proper boundaries with your DW. We deal with abuse not with appeasement but with firm boundaries. Your DW is free to be who she wants to be, and you are free to decide if you want her as a partner.
> 
> Surrender attempts at control ... accept you cannot change your DW's behavior, only your own.


So I've made a huge mistake and married someone who won't change then? I mean the change isn't about becoming a different person, it's just about treating me well that's all. 

I'm the kind of person who likes to try and fix something, but I guess now all I can do is look to split up, lose half of everything I ever earned and have given up for this woman, and start a new life on my own? Completely confused with all of this stuff.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I don't know what Actively Listening is, can you explain?


Active listening is a method of non-violent communication meant to de-escalate tension and defuse anger. It requires remaining calm, patient, and sincerely interested in understanding the other person. If done properly, it should not only resolve conflict, but earn the listener a great deal of respect and trust from his partner.

3 simple ideas for practicing active listening:

1. *Repeat her words back to her.* "You think that I think you are a bad person. You feel like there is no point in trying to convince me otherwise."

2. *Paraphrase her words back to her, reflecting the feeling. *"You feel like I don't listen to you, but instead just blame you. I act like you are a control freak, and that you are the problem in our marriage, instead of taking responsibility for what I have contributed to our problems."

3. *Ask an open-ended question*. "I think you feel defeated, like I am always blaming you for the problems in our marriage. That has eroded your trust in me. How can I re-earn your trust?"

You must go into active listening with an open mind. You do not have to agree with anything she says, but you owe it to yourself to try to see where she is coming from. We can all learn from honest criticism, even when it hurts our pride. Especially when it hurts our pride.

Two things to avoid: 

1. Becoming defensive. "I do everything any woman could want. You are the problem in this marriage!"

2. Explaining. "I have anxiety issues that prevent me from being able to hear you first, because I am so consumed with getting my own needs met."

When she is upset, she cannot hear it. She cannot process it. Wait until she is calmer and feels understood by you. Then you will be able to explain, and have your words and intent received in the spirit you mean them.

Active listening is empathy in action. It is seeking first to understand, and then to be understood. And it would surely diffuse some of the resentment that has built up in your relationship.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> It seems as though it might not be that simple now. After she agreed to see the councillor, I said....
> 
> ME:
> Well I think we can both agree that we’re not communicating properly. I am making you feel victimised, and you’re making me feel disrespected, so we need some help with it right?
> ...


I think you just started some active listening.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

jld said:


> Active listening is a method of non-violent communication meant to de-escalate tension and defuse anger. It requires remaining calm, patient, and sincerely interested in understanding the other person. If done properly, it should not only resolve conflict, but earn the listener a great deal of respect and trust from his partner.
> 
> 3 simple ideas for practicing active listening:
> 
> ...


I have just tried repeating her words back to her to see what happens. I really don't understand though as when she says she will come and see someone, she's getting incredibly mardy about it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You would also do well to read the book in my signature.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

JLD — Thank you for your advice. I took it and repeated the question back to her, and here is how it's unfolded...

ME:
You think that I think you are a bad person. You feel like there is no point in trying to convince me otherwise?

WIFE:
It's not that I think there's no point I just don't get why you think bad in the first place

What do I say now?


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> So I've made a huge mistake and married someone who won't change then? I mean the change isn't about becoming a different person, it's just about treating me well that's all.
> Not exactly, only your DW can decide to change her behavior. Your job is to clearly communicate your feelings and establish boundaries. She will choose to respect that or not.
> 
> I'm the kind of person who likes to try and fix something, but I guess now all I can do is look to split up, lose half of everything I ever earned and have given up for this woman, and start a new life on my own? Completely confused with all of this stuff. Before MC, take some time in IC to figure out who you are and what you stand for. Communicate this clearly and see how you DW responds. Then decide how you will proceed. Kindest Regards-


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

I don't know what I stand for to be honest. I've worked 30 years chasing a pipe dream, have got to a point people try to get too throughout there entire life (success and money) and I finally woke up one day and realised it all means absolutely nothing.

So I'm pretty damn lost to be honest


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> JLD — Thank you for your advice. I took it and repeated the question back to her, and here is how it's unfolded...
> 
> ME:
> You think that I think you are a bad person. You feel like there is no point in trying to convince me otherwise?
> ...


How about an open-ended question. "Honey, I am sorry I make you feel like I think you are a bad person. That is not what I want you to think. What are the things I say or do that make it seem like I think you are a bad person? Help me understand, please, so I can stop."


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

jld said:


> How about an open-ended question. "Honey, I am sorry I make you feel like I think you are a bad person. That is not what I want you to think. What are the things I say or do that make it seem like I think you are a bad person? Help me understand, please, so I can stop."


Ok, I will try that JLD, thanks. However I kind of feel like I am on the back foot given it's my wife that screams, shouts, and swears at me a lot. Or, do I need to dig a bit deeper to find out why she is doing that? Sorry, just not used to this that's all, but I appreciate your help hugely!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I don't know what I stand for to be honest. I've worked 30 years chasing a pipe dream, have got to a point people try to get too throughout there entire life (success and money) and I finally woke up one day and realised it all means absolutely nothing.
> 
> So I'm pretty damn lost to be honest


Honesty is always good. . Be just as honest in IC, and in MC. You will get better quicker, and save money in therapy bills.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> Ok, I will try that JLD, thanks. However I kind of feel like I am on the back foot given it's my wife that screams, shouts, and swears at me a lot. Or, do I need to dig a bit deeper to find out why she is doing that? Sorry, just not used to this that's all, but I appreciate your help hugely!


She is just crying out for understanding from you. She desperately wants and needs your compassion and understanding, Ah.

Once she feels understood, her emotions will calm down. It just requires some initial leadership on your part, an ability to not take her tone personally, while listening intently for the real message underneath all the anger.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Ah83 said:


> Ok, I will try that JLD, thanks. However I kind of feel like I am on the back foot given it's my wife that screams, shouts, and swears at me a lot. Or, do I need to dig a bit deeper to find out why she is doing that? Sorry, just not used to this that's all, but I appreciate your help hugely!


 "I think at your core, you're a very good person with great qualities of ______, _______ and _______. I hope the counselor can help us both understand why you get so angry, because I know that's not who you really are."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> "I think at your core, you're a very good person with great qualities of ______, _______ and _______. I hope the counselor can help us both understand why you get so angry, because I know that's not who you really are."


Sounds too blaming to me. Could cause defensiveness in the wife.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

After being unavailable when I called at work yet again. Gets me worrying, yes I know it's a really bad thing on my behalf but I mean when we have issues like this, it's not unheard of thinking there could be someone else right? Anyway after 40 minutes waiting, she texted....

WIFE:
Just what I have said to you before. When you bring up money it makes me feel inadequate, when you call me a control freak and say I like upsetting you and putting you down and just when you don't believe what I say. I know we all need some reassurance from time to time but I want you to believe in me and us and sometimes you question the same things again and again.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

jld said:


> Sounds too blaming to me. Could cause defensiveness in the wife.


I don't think she should be let completely off the hook for her explosive anger, though. No matter what the reason for her explosions, she does need to correct that.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Wow - it works! That was a good response from her - no ?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> After being unavailable when I called at work yet again. Gets me worrying, yes I know it's a really bad thing on my behalf but I mean when we have issues like this, it's not unheard of thinking there could be someone else right? Anyway after 40 minutes waiting, she texted....
> 
> WIFE:
> Just what I have said to you before. When you bring up money it makes me feel inadequate, when you call me a control freak and say I like upsetting you and putting you down and just when you don't believe what I say. I know we all need some reassurance from time to time but I want you to believe in me and us and sometimes you question the same things again and again.


It sounds like your anxiety is the root of the problem. If you can face your fears head on, ideally with your counselor, you should start to be able to build some self-confidence. Then you will not be so dependent on your wife emotionally, which should be a big relief for her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think I would respond like this: 

"Wife, I think I have been projecting my own fears and sense of inadequacy onto you. I need to address my fears in counseling instead of always expecting you to shore me up somehow."

"I want to make a commitment to working on myself instead of blaming you, which is what I usually tend to do when I am anxious. I hope you can be patient with me as I learn new, healthier ways of dealing with my fears."

Ah, have you done much reading on how to develop inner strength?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I don't think she should be let completely off the hook for her explosive anger, though. No matter what the reason for her explosions, she does need to correct that.


As he changes, she will change, too.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I don't know what I stand for to be honest. I've worked 30 years chasing a pipe dream, have got to a point people try to get too throughout there entire life (success and money) and I finally woke up one day and realised it all means absolutely nothing.
> 
> So I'm pretty damn lost to be honest


That's just about the best description of a mid-life crisis (MLC) I have ever read. It is a frightening experience .. to feel one has lost sense of what matters. In the confusion, you will cling to things that provide some sense of continuity. For example, you might stay a job that no longer meets your needs. Be patient with yourself ... you will figure it out. Kindest Regards-


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

jld said:


> It sounds like your anxiety is the root of the problem. If you can face your fears head on, ideally with your counselor, you should start to be able to build some self-confidence. Then you will not be so dependent on your wife emotionally, which should be a big relief for her.



The problem is, nothing seems to work. No one can actually give me an explanation for any kind of route cause other than some BS about chemical imbalance, which seemed to balance absolutely fine for the previous 10 years of my life? The whole "give him a pill, and he'll be fine" route isn't something I believe in either, as in essence all these deadly pharmaceutical drugs do is A) mess your brain up, and B) block neural pathways from working, tricking the brain, and in essence not addressing or explaining the route cause. I've been there and done it all I'm afraid, and nothing is working.

I have had a councillor for the last 7 weeks, I have spoken to psychiatrists who have given me more labels then a designer warehouse, I have tried diet and exercise, I have become more spiritual, meditated, turned to God, tried cognitive behavioural therapy, you name it, I've done it. Yes, maybe for a few weeks my subconscious actually tricks my conscious mind into thinking "I'm cured", but then reality sets in, the anxiety floods back in, and so do all of the other negative tendencies with that.

So lost is probably an understatement, and if there is a life after death then maybe this is my punishment for some past life sin, who knows. Pretty sick of it all though to be honest, and given my family isn't really a family, I don't have anyone else apart from my wife, and as you can see she bares the brunt of my sad existence. Do you know what the ironic thing is? I know more than most of the so called "experts" do, and even that isn't enough...


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> That's just about the best description of a mid-life crisis (MLC) I have ever read. It is a frightening experience .. to feel one has lost sense of what matters. In the confusion, you will cling to things that provide some sense of continuity. For example, you might stay a job that no longer meets your needs. Be patient with yourself ... you will figure it out. Kindest Regards-


I'm 31, so I don't think it's a midlife crisis. I became hugely successful at 24 and round about 29/30, I finally started to realise what all this money and materialistic stuff stands for, absolutely nothing. 

I'm not going to the gym, getting a spray tan, and driving around in a convertible, so trust me when I tell you it's not a midlife crisis, it's more of a spiritual awakening than anything, and even that side of things is enough to mess with your mind, never mind the illusion television, culture, and our sorry state of society sells us on a daily basis!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Keep talking to us. Just keep talking. You sound like someone who needs to express himself, so do it here.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Emotional Turmoil

I understand you object to the MLC stereotype.


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

I think you're missing the point. You can label the link emotional turmoil, but the article is about mid-life crisis specifically, and nothing there relates to me. Have you ever heard of anyone who goes through a midlife crisis haunted by the following questions...

• Why are we here
• Is death the end
• Are there other dimensions to this life other than the physical one
• Are there good and evil forces at play which can influence peoples emotions and feelings, hence why awful things happen?

I'm a problem solver at heart, and I am creative. I cannot solve any of these things, and that is what causes the anxiety. I've experienced some very strange things over the last 3/4 years that have changed my life. I realised I wasn't a good person for most of my life, I was driven by money, greed, and other things that are not good. I have made a huge effort to change myself, and I have changed. I have started helping others, I have stopped concentrating on the above, but it's the last 2/3 years where problems have come in. I don't know what these are, you ask a doctor he tells you it's XYZ from his little book, you ask someone spiritual they tell you it's to do with your spirit, you ask someone religious they tell you it's to do with God, sin, and repent. So if you ask me if this is a midlife crisis, it certainly isn't. If anything, I've been living a lie for most of my life, and it's the shocking reality of finally waking up, pondering on the questions of life, and the fact I can't find concrete answers that's messing me up. Throw in anxiety, stress, and depression to boot and you've a deadly ****tail which eliminates the possibility of thinking clearly, and puts me in emotional turmoil. 

You see people have distraction in life, they have careers, they have kids, they have a false sense of self without truly learning and developing internally. I work on my own, so I have a lot of thinking time, and not much distraction, I'm artistic so I am naturally up and down, and it's only when you stop and think about all these things that it becomes a problem. Most peoples minds are focused on what's for tea tonight, some reality program, or facebook. For me it's different, it's harder, but it's real.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

The existential questions are a part of your path.

Path to the Soul

You are right that some people never struggle with the existential questions. Their lives are filled with busy endeavors that are important to them, just as the big questions are important to you. 

Let me ask a question: What happened in your life that prompted you to make the decision to change course?


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> The existential questions are a part of your path.
> 
> Path to the Soul
> 
> ...


I had a week of the most severe depression you could imagine (literally hours upon end staring into space in my room) and crying, and feeling torture and pain and then I felt the most unexplainable feeling I ever have in my entire life, a complete connection to everything, a bliss. That horrific pain lifted as if it was a cloak around me being taken off.

After that some strange spiritual things started to happen in the house, and I started to realise that the way I was going in life was wrong. I was greedy, i cheated, lied, deceived, all for my own disgusting selfish gain. I lived for materialism, I used my success and wealth as a false stool for confidence, and then one day everything just clicked, I felt completely different and I decided I needed to change my life somehow.

I'm still at the 'how do I change my life' point, but since then I've done good things, and I am trying to be the best person I can be and not get lost in the horrible path I was previously...

That's how it all began...


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I had a week of the most severe depression you could imagine (literally hours upon end staring into space in my room) and crying, and feeling torture and pain and then I felt the most unexplainable feeling I ever have in my entire life, a complete connection to everything, a bliss. That horrific pain lifted as if it was a cloak around me being taken off.
> 
> After that some strange spiritual things started to happen in the house, and I started to realise that the way I was going in life was wrong. I was greedy, i cheated, lied, deceived, all for my own disgusting selfish gain. I lived for materialism, I used my success and wealth as a false stool for confidence, and then one day everything just clicked, I felt completely different and I decided I needed to change my life somehow.
> 
> ...


Strangely, I just saw a film that discussed the common threads of spiritual awakening: 
With One Voice

Every person described a moment of peaceful, complete connection. I have never experienced this first hand. And you said guided meditation has not helped you crystallize your thoughts and feelings? In the book I referenced, Ashok Bedi might relate your severe depressive episode to the lack of synchronization between your subconscious truth (what your soul knows to be true) and your conscious actions (how you live your life today). Jung suggested that your dreams would have tried to make you aware of this disequilibrium before knocking harder (depression and eventually physical illness). Kindest Regards-


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

How old is your wife and how long have you been married? Do you have any children and what ages are they if you have them?

I am 57 years old, 35 years married (1st time marriage for the both of us), career woman, and elected to be without children. I learned early on our marriage not to shout, scream, and raise my voice to my young husband. (He was 24 years old and I was 22 when we married.) He detest that type of behavior. 

On the other hand, my mother did what yours is doing. I had to consciously undo what my mother modeled for me. My way of doing this is to lower my voice and octave down and tell my husband that I need to speak to him as I am very upset. His response is to allow me to speak and he will respond back. We do not shout nor scream at each other. This strategy works for us as we are both A types and neither of us will win an argument.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> I had a week of the most severe depression you could imagine (literally hours upon end staring into space in my room) and crying, and feeling torture and pain and then I felt the most unexplainable feeling I ever have in my entire life, a complete connection to everything, a bliss. That horrific pain lifted as if it was a cloak around me being taken off.
> 
> After that some strange spiritual things started to happen in the house, and I started to realise that the way I was going in life was wrong. I was greedy, i cheated, lied, deceived, all for my own disgusting selfish gain. I lived for materialism, I used my success and wealth as a false stool for confidence, and then one day everything just clicked, I felt completely different and I decided I needed to change my life somehow.
> 
> ...


I couldn't help but notice this. Your wife married a materialistic douche. That materialistic douche has changed and is in the process of becoming a completely different person. I think it's likely that she's thrown for a loop by the new you and doesn't know how to react, and if that's the case you'll likely need to complete your transition to whatever you're becoming before she'll be able to settle down. So I agree with the folks telling you that you need to continue IC more than you need MC, I don't think the MC will be effective while you're in transition.

It's also possible that she's only attracted to materialistic douches and if that's the case your marriage is doomed. I wouldn't worry about that now, though. Cross that bridge if you come to it.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

OP, how about you focus on being the best version of yourself for YOU and quit being so sensitive. Sounds like you dont respect yourself and are a bit touchy. So what if she says you have lost hair and put on weight? You cry about that? How about getting some exercise and being the best you can with what you have. Do what you want to do, ignore her criticisms and move on with your day. It is the man's job to make the problems seem smaller, not blow them out of proportion. 

And dont keep TALKING about your issues with her. If she has things she wants to share, listen with love but do not bring your problems to her in that way. Be a man.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

When she starts on one of her rampages, leave the house, that's what I would do if I were you and if continues and she won't get help then I would think about leaving permanently. I doubt this will improve because she doesn't think she has a problem. She blames your problems on you. You need to stand up for yourself and don't take her abuse.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> When she starts on one of her rampages, leave the house, that's what I would do if I were you and if continues and she won't get help then I would think about leaving permanently. I doubt this will improve because she doesn't think she has a problem. She blames your problems on you. You need to stand up for yourself and don't take her abuse.


I do not know that I would take the stance that she is abusing him, I would say quit talking about it and take action. 

The 'she said this so i said this so what do i say now?' stuff needs to end. She has to be getting sick of constantly having to talk in circles. 

How about dont say anything? 

Just go along with your day, be busy, happy, confident, start doing your own thing-- find a passion-- and having fun and if you deserve respect you will get it, and if she sees an attractive MAN living in her house, one of these days she will want to go along with you.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ah83 said:


> Ok, I will try that JLD, thanks. However I kind of feel like I am on the back foot given it's my wife that screams, shouts, and swears at me a lot. Or, do I need to dig a bit deeper to find out why she is doing that? Sorry, just not used to this that's all, but I appreciate your help hugely!


How about when she screams and yells you walk away and tell her we can talk when she is ready to speak calmly and respectfully.

Give her a kiss on the cheek and walk out of the room.

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I couldn't help but notice this. Your wife married a materialistic douche. That materialistic douche has changed and is in the process of becoming a completely different person. I think it's likely that she's thrown for a loop by the new you and doesn't know how to react, and if that's the case you'll likely need to complete your transition to whatever you're becoming before she'll be able to settle down. So I agree with the folks telling you that you need to continue IC more than you need MC, I don't think the MC will be effective while you're in transition.
> 
> It's also possible that she's only attracted to materialistic douches and if that's the case your marriage is doomed. I wouldn't worry about that now, though. Cross that bridge if you come to it.


Bingo

:iagree:

55


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Whats this transition crap?

You wake up you stop slapping the old lady, kicking the dog and hug your kids and tell them you love them for the 1st time in a long time.

Then you walk over to the old lady and tell her you are done living the way you are live and she is more then welcome to come a long for the ride and reap the rewards the new me has to offer....but their is one thing she needs to hear so shut the pie hole and listen or interrupt me again and I'll take my sorry @ss else were and start from scratch.

#1 stop ohucking other guy.
#2 start loving me again.

If my old lady can do those two things then she was more then welcome to stick around.

The "phucking other guys" was a little more complicated...but my old lady got the jest.

Granted going to anger management and coming home from work straight away put action into my words.... not for her but for me... The point is a guy just has to stop taking shyt, stop blaming other for his bad choices and never every let someone have so much control over you that you can't just let them go!

At the end of the day I respect my self so phuck everyone else!


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## Ah83 (Jun 1, 2015)

Morcoll said:


> OP, how about you focus on being the best version of yourself for YOU and quit being so sensitive. Sounds like you dont respect yourself and are a bit touchy. So what if she says you have lost hair and put on weight? You cry about that? How about getting some exercise and being the best you can with what you have. Do what you want to do, ignore her criticisms and move on with your day. It is the man's job to make the problems seem smaller, not blow them out of proportion.
> 
> And dont keep TALKING about your issues with her. If she has things she wants to share, listen with love but do not bring your problems to her in that way. Be a man.


I think that's a little bit harsh. You wouldn't tell someone who had just broken so many bones in there body to be a man, I'm at probably the lowest part of my life, the lowest I have felt in a very long time, and if I could just "BE A MAN" and snap out of it, I would, but it's not that simple. I feel weak and ill most days, and maybe that's because I have changed and I can't continue as I have previously, I don't know, but that's the truth.

I've battled with anxiety now for a couple of years, and I battle with paranoia as well that my wife may be cheating. It could all be in my head, or my gut instinct could be right. It's got pretty ugly and bad, and I've been kept away from her work now for many years having only met her colleagues she's worked with for 8 years once at my wedding. It's a taboo subject and if i ask anything i get attacked because she thinks I am getting paranoid, which is fair enough. Not quite sure what to do to be honest, even the IC doesn't seem to work for me.


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## grn (Jun 4, 2015)

You said your family isn't intact, your family of origin? I would bet money that you lived a very invalidating childhood. Usually children who are overly sensitive experience this. They are ridiculed for their sensitive nature and made to feel like they are defective and can't trust their own feelings, that their feelings are wrong and in some way bad and then they look to other people for validation to define who they should be. But when you need validation from other people because you don't have that deep well of self-confidence from your family building you up, that is a child's birth rite, it's always just out of reach. I believe you had a troubled childhood and you are now in a relationship that resembles issues you had in your childhood and you chose your partner because it was familiar and you are trying to right the wrongs of childhood through her. To feel confident about who you are. But it doesn't come from her. Your wife sounds like a narcissist and you sound like a co-dependent. A match made in heaven. And if you were a gifted, sensitive child who was constantly invalidated, it's totally predictable. Your wife rages at you when you get upset because she doesn't really care about your feelings. She doesn't have to. She knows she's going to get away with treating you like this because you don't respect yourself. Did your parents rage at you too when you tried to express your feelings? Sorry, but asking your wife to be nice over and over again makes you seem like a whiny b***. I relate to so much of what you write. I could be totally wrong about all this but I feel like I know you.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> As he changes, she will change, too.


No guarantee of that. Sometimes people just want a punching bag not a relationship. Giving in and changing doesn't inspire change in another necessarily. Depends on if the other person steps up or not. One person can't fix a relationship if the other is checked out or not interested. What a single person can do is tear one down despite the efforts of the other. 

They would both benefit from counseling. OP will she actually go with you for some help?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> No guarantee of that. Sometimes people just want a punching bag not a relationship. Giving in and changing doesn't inspire change in another necessarily. Depends on if the other person steps up or not. One person can't fix a relationship if the other is checked out or not interested. What a single person can do is tear one down despite the efforts of the other.


Well, I think a husband has an awful lot of influence over a wife. I have a tremendous belief in the potential of a man to turn his marriage around if he will humble himself enough to look at what he has done wrong, and then correct it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Well, I think a husband has an awful lot of influence over a wife. I have a tremendous belief in the potential of a man to turn his marriage around if he will humble himself enough to look at what he has done wrong, and then correct it.


In good marriages ...perhaps. But women are as capable of emotional abuse as men are. They can cheat, lie, deceive, manipulate same as a man can. So under right circumstances men and woman can influence positive for one another but they also can absolutely can be the destructive force in a marriage despite the best intentions of the husband. 

Besides how do you know he did wrong? It is possible that she is, as he describes, just wildly disrespectful or at the very least checked out of this marriage .

This case as example he pours out in message how hurt he is by her and needs a change...some counseling for the both. If my SO typed that to me I would be in a panic to get that ship course corrected. That reads to me that he is at his wits end and wanting out. And what was her response.....

Sorry don't know what else to say..... 

That would speak volumes to me about her level of interest in fixing this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> In good marriages ...perhaps. But women are as capable of emotional abuse as men are. They can cheat, lie, deceive, manipulate same as a man can. So under right circumstances men and woman can influence positive for one another but they also can absolutely can be the destructive force in a marriage despite the best intentions of the husband.
> 
> Besides how do you know he did wrong? It is possible that she is, as he describes, just wildly disrespectful or at the very least checked out of this marriage .
> 
> ...


He has not been back since the day he started posting. I tried to help him that morning, explaining active listening to him. He seemed to get a hopeful result. I hope he has continued using it.

It does not always take two to start fixing a marriage. Often one alone can get the ball rolling. 

Men have an awful lot of influence over women, Wolf. I wish more men would realize this, and use that influence more effectively.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Ah83 said:


> I think that's a little bit harsh. You wouldn't tell someone who had just broken so many bones in there body to be a man, I'm at probably the lowest part of my life, the lowest I have felt in a very long time, and if I could just "BE A MAN" and snap out of it, I would, but it's not that simple. I feel weak and ill most days, and maybe that's because I have changed and I can't continue as I have previously, I don't know, but that's the truth.
> 
> I've battled with anxiety now for a couple of years, and I battle with paranoia as well that my wife may be cheating. It could all be in my head, or my gut instinct could be right. It's got pretty ugly and bad, and I've been kept away from her work now for many years having only met her colleagues she's worked with for 8 years once at my wedding. It's a taboo subject and if i ask anything i get attacked because she thinks I am getting paranoid, which is fair enough. Not quite sure what to do to be honest, even the IC doesn't seem to work for me.


There are people out there a lot worse off than you. Is this your idea of a pity party? I am sorry you are going through this but get over yourself. Quit feeling sorry for yourself.

And what do her work colleagues have to do with anything? It's 'taboo'. Why do you even care? 

You have to be prepared to walk away from this situation. If you choose to keep torturing yourself, you have no right to complain about how awful things are.


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## grn (Jun 4, 2015)

In addition to an invalidating, abusive childhood making it more likely that you would find yourself in a situation like this, I also believe an abusive childhood makes it much more likely that you would suffer from anxiety and depression stemming from a need for control. Because you really can't control can you? It's fleeting. Just when you control one thing you find there's more and more you can't control. Why would a formerly abused child have more of a need for control than others? As a child, if you don't feel safe, you might not live right? You don't know what a big or little threat is because you are just a child and have no perspective. But to a child, even small threats could feel like your life might be in jeopardy. Someone screams a lot in the house, or at you, the child doesn't know it's just someone with anger issues in a bad mood, for all they know their primary caretaker might die. If that happens then they might die. So to compensate for these early, very real threats to existance, the child becomes a control freak to make sure that can never happen again. Maybe I'm totally wrong about you but I'm telling you this because it's empowering to know that if this is the way you got to be the way you are it isn't necessarily because you were born defective, with "anxiety or depression genes" or what have you, but because you had a normal, compensatory response to what seemed like life or death situtaions at the time. Other people wronged you - the very people who were supposed to love and care for you. They weren't even thinking about you because they probably had personality disorders. But you live with the fallout of their careless actions to this day. Find your strength to get better in righteous anger that comes from not getting the love and care every child deserves. Don't let those thoughtless people continue to have power over you and affect your present and future too. You definitely need IC.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> He has not been back since the day he started posting. I tried to help him that morning, explaining active listening to him. He seemed to get a hopeful result. I hope he has continued using it.
> 
> It does not always take two to start fixing a marriage. Often one alone can get the ball rolling.
> 
> ...


And this is based on what exactly? Was certainly nothing I have ever experienced.

I have seen mutual influence, that is to say each spouse or partner bring different strengths to the table which in turn helps and influences one another. But I haven't seen it as one sided as you seem to imply. 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by influence. So what do you exactly mean by that?


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi OP. You have gotten some good feedback here so I only want to add a few things for you to think about. Internal conflict feels lonely and alienating. You say you don't know what you want in life and that life, in general, has been disappointing. Sense of purpose needs to evolve as we grow. I think you are right no track in your life with doing that. I'm a different author of my life now than when I was twenty. I write my story from a different perspective. I think you are seeing this in your own life and you are questioning even your most basic beliefs and expectations. Often our mind/body connection is overlooked because we value logic and facts so when there is a spiritual problem it manifests in anxiety and marital conflicts. 
I think there is something to be said for knowing where you are in your life and what you need. I think, from what I read and I could be wrong, that you want acceptance, kindness, grace, peace and to be valued as a husband. This translates to you as respect and that is a logical conclusion. Where I think you are disappointed is that you are trying to get those things from your wife and she doesn't understand your need for them since this is different from what you considered important earlier in your relationship. There is a disconnect between you two that communication only will not solve. First, you have to figure out how to give those things to yourself. For each person, this looks different. Acceptance of yourself as a man and husband is a first step to making her feel all the things you desire from her. This is your journey to figure out what this looks like to you. Write down your needs and desires.....follow through with building your own self esteem and acceptance of self and become intimately aware of what you need from her and ask for it...exactly as detailed as possible. Then let her do the same. This isn't a gender war. This is a marriage based on making sure your partner feels valued and supported and in return will give you the peace, acceptance, admiration and value that you need.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

jld said:


> He has not been back since the day he started posting. I tried to help him that morning, explaining active listening to him. He seemed to get a hopeful result. I hope he has continued using it.
> 
> It does not always take two to start fixing a marriage. Often one alone can get the ball rolling.
> 
> Men have an awful lot of influence over women, Wolf. I wish more men would realize this, and use that influence more effectively.


It always takes two to start fixing a marriage.

One person can declare a desire to work on something and begin to work towards a goal, but if the other individual does not join in, there is no end point.

It sounds like this guy needs to start working on himself. Hit the gym, get some outside hobbies, get away from his wife and begin to build a life of personal enjoyment independent of her.

He is too emotionally dependent on her validation and it sounds like he lacks a solid footing in life.

Personal counseling and working with doctors to deal with his mental state is a starting point and then he should hit some variation of the 180.

Yes, men have a great deal of influence over women.

But some men need their wives to actually lead in important aspects of their relationship as well.

It sounds like the OP is one of those and that this situation is not going to work out, to be frank.

Maybe once he tackles himself he can build a stronger marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> And this is based on what exactly? Was certainly nothing I have ever experienced.
> 
> I have seen mutual influence, that is to say each spouse or partner bring different strengths to the table which in turn helps and influences one another. But I haven't seen it as one sided as you seem to imply.
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by influence. So what do you exactly mean by that?


John Gottman, America's foremost marriage researcher, found that women typically accept influence from their husbands, but husbands typically do not easily accept influence from their wives. What does this mean? Women are more likely to listen to what men say than men are to listen to women.

If you want to turn a marriage around, start listening. Figure out what her needs are and start meeting them. Are you neglecting her? Not doing things you told her you would? When she seems distant, do you engage her? If she gets angry, do you use active listening to see what is really going on? Do you let her emotions roll off your back, and reach out to understand her instead?

Use the knowledge you gain of her, as well as developing the ability to not take her emotions personally, to change the relationship.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Of course one partner can start fixing a marriage, Icey. That one is called the leader.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

jld said:


> Of course one partner can start fixing a marriage, Icey. That one is called the leader.


A leader without a willing and enthusiastic follower is just a fool shouting in the wind, accomplishing nothing.

Marriages are partnerships. 

If both parties are not working towards the maintenance of the marriage, there is no marriage.

Leadership or no.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

jld said:


> John Gottman, America's foremost marriage researcher, found that women typically accept influence from their husbands, but husbands typically do not easily accept influence from their wives. What does this mean? Women are more likely to listen to what men say than men are to listen to women.
> 
> If you want to turn a marriage around, start listening. Figure out what her needs are and start meeting them. Are you neglecting her? Not doing things you told her you would? When she seems distant, do you engage her? If she gets angry, do you use active listening to see what is really going on? Do you let her emotions roll off your back, and reach out to understand her instead?
> 
> Use the knowledge you gain of her, as well as developing the ability to not take her emotions personally, to change the relationship.


Gottman also harbored a sexist bias concerning the nature of marriage that ignored the possibility that women can be both the aggressors and sources of abuse in a relationship.

And a good deal of his marriage research seemed to focus on unhealthy relationships with domineering men and supplicant women.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Icey181 said:


> A leader without a willing and enthusiastic follower is just a fool shouting in the wind, accomplishing nothing.
> 
> Marriages are partnerships.
> 
> ...


Well, I think we have a different understanding of "leader," then.

Many leaders do not start out with followers. They use the strength of their character and example to inspire people, who then become their followers. 

And in marriage, you just need one follower, and sometimes for only a short time, to get things on a healthy path of partnership. You do need to be committed to understanding your partner and developing a Win/Win philosophy of marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Icey181 said:


> Gottman also harbored a sexist bias concerning the nature of marriage that ignored the possibility that women can be both the aggressors and sources of abuse in a relationship.
> 
> And a good deal of his marriage research seemed to focus on unhealthy relationships with domineering men and supplicant women.


His research has been peer-reviewed. I think if there were a bias, it would have been uncovered and his research declared invalid.

Have you read any of his books?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> John Gottman, America's foremost marriage researcher, found that women typically accept influence from their husbands, but husbands typically do not easily accept influence from their wives. What does this mean? Women are more likely to listen to what men say than men are to listen to women.
> 
> If you want to turn a marriage around, start listening. Figure out what her needs are and start meeting them. Are you neglecting her? Not doing things you told her you would? When she seems distant, do you engage her? If she gets angry, do you use active listening to see what is really going on? Do you let her emotions roll off your back, and reach out to understand her instead?
> 
> Use the knowledge you gain of her, as well as developing the ability to not take her emotions personally, to change the relationship.


So when you are listening but she isn't communicating
When you aren't neglecting her but instead making her the priority
You always have open communication but again she isn't communicating back
Yes you listen when she is angry and expect she will do the same when you are upset
Yes you understand her and want her to understand you back

So when you do all these things and she still checks out and cheats or leaves you then have had influence over nothing. That was my point. These things you identified work great when two people are interested in working on a relationship and marriage. Not so much when one, regardless of gender, checks out and isn't interested anymore. That unfortunately happens a lot


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> So when you are listening but she isn't communicating
> When you aren't neglecting her but instead making her the priority
> You always have open communication but again she isn't communicating back
> Yes you listen when she is angry and expect she will do the same when you are upset
> ...


You cannot expect it back at first. You must set the example, and give it time to inspire her trust and reciprocity.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> You cannot expect it back at first. You must set the example, and give it time to inspire her trust and reciprocity.


Like 10 years? Cause that's how long I was married lol. Seems plenty long enough for me

Guess we will just agree to disagree then. I will have to say that the relationship experts who are much more about setting personal boundrys and holding others accountable is an approach I am much more comfortable with now. I tried the other approach you describe and didn't work for me personally.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Like 10 years? Cause that's how long I was married lol. Seems plenty long enough for me
> 
> Guess we will just agree to disagree then. I will have to say that the relationship experts who are much more about setting personal boundrys and holding others accountable is an approach I am much more comfortable with now. I tried the other approach you describe and didn't work for me personally.


I do think people can fall into one of those two camps. You put the accent on boundaries and accountability; I put it on empathy and Win/Win philosophy.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> So when you are listening but she isn't communicating
> When you aren't neglecting her but instead making her the priority
> You always have open communication but again she isn't communicating back
> Yes you listen when she is angry and expect she will do the same when you are upset
> ...


This is 100% TRUTH.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> I do think people can fall into one of those two camps. You put the accent on boundaries and accountability; I put it on empathy and Win/Win philosophy.


Love the win win philosophy. But that can only work when both parties want to win lol


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Love the win win philosophy. But that can only work when both parties want to win lol


Oh, Wolf. Ye of little faith.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Oh, Wolf. Ye of little faith.


Not about faith it's just the way things go in relationships. It's a sad truth that rarely when things end its a 100% mutual decision. 

Their was a thread awhile ago here on marriage counseling. In that thread someone posted a link on this great article on why marriage counseling fails. They, sorry don't remember who but maybe you'll recall the thread, stated that the reason marriage counseling fails so often is because one of the participants doesn't want to be there. They only attend because they are :

scared to pull the plug on divorce
Wanting validation they have been wronged
Want to slowly ease themselves out of the relationship
Want to give the appearance that they did in fact try all they could to fix the marriage

Any of this sound familiar. I looked couldn't find it.

Anyway point is when one person is done and emotionally moved on very very rarely are you bringing them back into the relationship. 

Just think back to a time when you had to end a relationship. By the time you got to the point of ... We are done.... You are fair less upset about it than the other person. Reason is cause you moved on, prepared yourself for the end and got ok with it.

When we talk about WAW and WAH it's the same thing. The person leavening....the walk away.....seems callous, cold, indifferent but what they really are is just done and emotional moved on.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Anyway sorry for the TJ. JLD and I got off on a tangent here


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## arabian (Jun 3, 2015)

Respect is a two way street, so providing you are respecting her, and she is thinking "she is the boss" (like you hear some fool refer to their wives), then I'll let her know to cut the crap...if she persists, dump her and find someone who appreciates and adores you.


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