# How do you manage unsolvable problems?



## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

If you have a chronic unsolvable issue in your relationship, how do you keep it under control? How do you keep it from damaging your relationship? Issues like money habits, introvert/extrovert socializing, different ideas about parenting, etc. Do you schedule a regular time to talk about it before fights happen? How do you de-escalate fights on a loaded topic that you've been struggling with for years?

Dh and I have a chronic issue about "time"...who gets more of it on weekends, whose time is prioritized, who provides opportunities for the other person to have time alone, etc. etc. It sounds ridiculous, but this I issue has been eating away at our marriage for 10 years and it's just getting worse. Simple things like "plan together" or "use a calendar" do not work--there is too much subtext and passive aggression and anger by now. Feeling exhausted and hopeless, I think a therapist could help but Dh refuses. Any thoughts welcome.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Everybody has unsolvable problems. 

You can either learn not to sweat them, learn to mitigate them, or end the relationship. 

No two people will ever mesh 100%.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Right, I'm asking how other couples have learned to live with the unsolvable. Did you fight about it for years and then make changes? Did you learn to laugh it off from the start? Did you work on this one issue in therapy? Anyone have some specific advice?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PenguinCat said:


> Right, I'm asking how other couples have learned to live with the unsolvable. Did you fight about it for years and then make changes? Did you learn to laugh it off from the start? Did you work on this one issue in therapy? Anyone have some specific advice?


Only for specific problems. 

what is it? Spending time on the weekends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

PenguinCat said:


> Right, I'm asking how other couples have learned to live with the unsolvable. Did you fight about it for years and then make changes? Did you learn to laugh it off from the start? Did you work on this one issue in therapy? Anyone have some specific advice?


I think just giving in when it is important to the other person is helpful. You don't necessarily have to be happy about it, but be willing.

And it cannot always be one person giving in, unless that person really does not mind. Both have to have say over what is really important to them.

Are you feeling like you are always giving in, Penguin Cat?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

We have several arguably unsolvable issues in our relationship. We discuss them probably once every six months or so. Nothing changes, no one feels better after the conversation is over. We tried MC for some time, while we had a venue for discussing them, they never really changed. 

We are at the point that our way of dealing with them is basically by rugsweeping them. We ignore them, until it flares up again, we discuss it, and the cycle starts all over again. 



> If you have a chronic unsolvable issue in your relationship, how do you keep it under control?


Rugsweeping. My husband doesn't "fight." He is passive to the extreme, and therefore we can't really have it "out" about any of these topics. Any sort of serious conversation with him about ... basically anything, means he shuts down and basically no longer responds at all. Or he's just keep saying I'm sorry, or he'll cry. (Though that last one hasn't happened considerably less since some IC/MC.)

I can't say our way is particularly viable, and it doesn't really take care of the problem, but it removes the issue from day to day. 

I'm not sure what I'd suggest with your particular issue.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Ours is money. 

H is the saver and I am the spender. We have 100% joint everything and we both work full time. We've always made similar salaries and for the time being I am our bread winner by a small margin.

He would much prefer to live a bachelor lifestyle and eat canned soup, sleep on a mattress on the floor and ride his bike everywhere to avoid paying for gas. (This is how he lived.) 

I do not think I am an outrageous spender but most certainly when compared to what he desires, I am from another planet. I buy coffees, a piece of clothing here and there, trinkets for the kids, gifts for people and just random little things all the time. To his horror. 

The only reason we can coexist with this issue is that neither one of us have made it the hill we wish to die on. It's not something either of us would leave the marriage over. 

I try to simultaneously live within his comfort zone while pushing him a bit to expand his comfort zone. It helps significantly that I have a good paying job, and I can tell that he feels badly about his knee jerk reactions at times to my purchases. However I also listen to his concerns. We've agreed that pretty much anything over $100 (that isn't a necessity like car maintenance, groceries, etc.) we give each other a heads up before making the purchase. That seems to work. And I've learned to accept his thinking too. I have always just been I want it > I buy it. Never wanted anything so crazy expensive that it required saving to get. A new shirt and a coffee from target makes me happy. He will sometimes say "do you really NEED that?" and I will without resentment agree he is right and put it down. 

Most of all though - I have a job and I make good money. I am not sure our situation would work if I was a SAHM. I think the guilt of spending "his" money would eat me alive. I can justify the balance I keep right now by knowing that we make enough money to afford our bills and everything else that pops up. 

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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Are you able to do something like this?
The Policy of Joint Agreement

Or compromise in some way, you get one weekend, he gets the next?

We have a chronic issue with division of chores. Right now it's ok because of work schedules but it will probably be an issue again someday, I don't know how we'll ever get it settled. Nothing has seemed to work.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> He would much prefer to live a bachelor lifestyle and eat canned soup, sleep on a mattress on the floor and ride his bike everywhere to avoid paying for gas. (This is how he lived.)
> 
> I do not think I am an outrageous spender but most certainly when compared to what he desires, I am from another planet. I buy coffees, a piece of clothing here and there, trinkets for the kids, gifts for people and just random little things all the time. To his horror.


Word. That's my H too. Ours goes a bit deeper, but that's basically the surface issue. I don't see myself as a big "spender" and I'm a coupon nut, always shop deals, etc - but to him anything above the bare necessities to live is "spending."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My wife's the spender, I hate debt. 

However, she also convinced me that I could be making a lot more money. 

Turns out she was right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

marduk said:


> My wife's the spender, I hate debt.
> 
> However, she also convinced me that I could be making a lot more money.
> 
> ...


What is the secret?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

jld said:


> What is the secret?


Have wildly unrealistic expectations and then act as if they are already true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

marduk said:


> Have wildly unrealistic expectations and then act as if they are already true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might want to start a thread on what you did. Other people could share their experiences, too. 

How to Make More Money would be an interesting thread. Your statement piqued my curiosity, anyway.

Back to you, OP.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

All issues are solvable it is just that many people don't like the solution options available.


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## MommaGx3 (Jan 12, 2016)

Is it just the two of you or do you have kids? And the time you all are working with, is it the scheduling of activities that both of you need to attend?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I second the Policy of Joint Agreement.

Talk about these issues...often...brainstorm as many ways as you can think that could meet both your husband's and your needs.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

cons said:


> I second* the Policy of Joint Agreement.*
> 
> Talk about these issues...often...brainstorm as many ways as you can think that could meet both your husband's and your needs.


I like that, too, but what does she do if her spouse will not agree?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

This is a JOINT effort (both the OP and her husband) in coming up with different ideas to see which one can be mutually agreed upon. You keep communicating, keep talking until you both can agree.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

cons said:


> This is a JOINT effort (both the OP and her husband) in coming up with different ideas to see which one can be mutually agreed upon. You keep communicating, keep talking until you both can agree.


I hope that works out. I am just wondering what a person does whose spouse is not willing to negotiate.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

PenguinCat said:


> Right, I'm asking how other couples have learned to live with the unsolvable. Did you fight about it for years and then make changes? Did you learn to laugh it off from the start? Did you work on this one issue in therapy? Anyone have some specific advice?


My wife is very clean, but has a problem with clutter. She can un-clutter a closet like nobody I know. However, she CANNOT keep it that way. For example, in our bathroom we have one large closet for bathroom items, towels, etc. I only ask for one shelf and she gets the rest. My shelf is organized and clean. Everything in it's place. The rest of the closet looks like a tornado hit it and every once in a while she puts stuff on my ledge because she has no room. We have talked about this for 24 years and nothing will change. 
What to do?

I ask for what is reasonable, like only one shelf and if she violates that, I simply take it off my shelf and shove it somewhere else. We don't talk about it anymore because it's pointless. I stake my claim to a corner and she can do whatever she wants with the rest.

I also have problems keeping my scissors, razors, tweezers, etc. from disappearing. It got so bad that I actually bought a lock box with combination and won't give it out. I will buy you 15 tweezers, but DON'T TAKE MY ONE DAMMN IT!! :grin2:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@UMP If PenguinCat's spouse is not willing to negotiate some sort of solution, what would you recommend she do?

I ask because she said he is unwilling to go to counselling. I suspect he may be unwilling to negotiate, too.

Your issue with your wife is a physical one. You have your shelf, even if is occasionally violated. But how is PenguinCat going to manage the time question, a non-physical issue?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

If two people can't truly sit down and discuss/negotiate/compromise there are BIG communication issues. If I were in that position, I would bring it to the next step and bring in a third party (counselor, pastor, mediator)... If it is to the point where the other party truly does not want to consider my needs...it is time to set the boundary (which may involve leaving). But at least I made every effort to roll up my sleeves and attempt to work together on the issue(s).


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jld, 
I think Penguin should give us one concrete example of what she is talking about. "Time" has a very broad meaning. Once you can start dissecting it up you might be able to agree on one item, then two, etc.
In the end, IMO, someone has to lead and someone has to give in at some point. If they cannot agree, they must agree to disagree.

I don't like the clutter, even if I have my shelf. So, in a way, we have agreed to disagree on one condition. Give me a little space and clutter the rest all you want.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Compared to me, my wife wastes too much money on frivolous groceries, is too loving with the kids and loves to waste time socializing instead of laying on the couch watching television. Instead of procrastinating like normal people she loves to get things done in a timely fashion. I have learned to tolerate these flaws since it's possible I may have one or two myself.

The answer to your question is you should not be arguing at all. You have to take the bad along with the good of your spouse. Show your appreciation for things that he does that you like. Learn how to voice your concerns for things that annoy you without arguing.

Since you provide little information I will have to make things up. Let's say you want to spend all weekend throwing tupperware parties while your husband has to stay home and wash socks. I would recommend to your husband to say "wife, I don't think you would appreciate if I spent all weekend throwing tupperware parties while you had to stay home and wash socks. I think you would feel that you were being treated like a doormat and that I did not value your time. This is how I feel when you do X".

No argument required. You ultimately need to provide information an allow your spouse to make decisoins about how to act. A good spouse will take your concerns seriously.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks for the ideas, this is really helpful. The time problem is so complex that it would be difficult to explain. Btw we have 3 kids. 
Basically:

-Dh has a lot of work to do, relating to his job, all the time. However, he doesn't communicate with me about times when he has deadlines, lots of work vs small amount, etc. So his work is never done, he always needs more time on weekends, he claims. He seems to have an unending need and yearning for "time." I think it's a bigger existential issue, it represents freedom, pleasure, a chance to pursue other interests. 

-I started grad school full time this fall. It is a lot of work. I try to get it done during the week, but sometimes I need a block of time on the weekend to study

-we have a babysitter on Sunday afternoons to give both of us time to work

-the kids have some activities on the weekends that we need to work around

-Dh is resentful because he claims I get more time, claims that he purposely tries to take the kids out for a block of time so I can work. He claims that I do not do the same for him. But I do! I think I need to keep a log of actual time breakdown 

-Dh is also resentful because he thinks I don't prioritize his job over everything else. I encourage him to stay as late as he needs during the week, but time sometimes runs out on the weekend.

- I am getting frustrated because grad school is a huge investment, and if I don't meet certain grade requirements, I will be dismissed from the program. I don't ever say that my study time is the first priority--I don't pull rank. I get support from Dh with extra time, but then I get guilt trips from him

-every decision about scheduling on weekends is a passive aggressive struggle. I try desperately to create more time for Dh, I try to get the kids out of the house so he can have time alone, I ask him to go into the office to work. He sabotages my efforts, then complains later that I haven't given him time. I protest endlessly when he wants to take the kids out, then I finally let him, then I get guilt trips. Around and around it goes. I dread the weekends because we have a big blowup fight abou this nearly every week. This has been going on since our first child was born 11 years ago. Grad school has made the problem worse, but we both made the decision that I would attend and it would mean lifestyle changes.

Big mess


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

I have tried printing up time grids but Dh won't sit down with me to plot out the weekend hour by hour.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Also, dh's exercise time on weekends doesn't count as personal time, but mine does. This is about 1 hour for each of us. I often end up sacrificing my exercise time to give him more work time.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Ok. That's a power struggle and it seems he is purposefully keeping it that way. 

1. Why is his job so demanding that he cannot work in realistic increments? Multiple hours every day? No ability to predict what the workload of his current week requires? 

2. Where in the time struggle are either of you spending time together alone, or as a family enjoying each other's company?

3. If he finds the house too distracting, he should be going to his office to work. That's the rule in my house. We carefully guard our house as a haven for our family. Children can be told to play quietly for awhile but I will not have any of us be made to feel we are a burden in our own home. Headphones exist, or you may take the work elsewhere. In my marriage both H and I have had to work on weekends occasionally to catch up on something and work from home occasionally. Key word is occasionally. But neither of us will tell the other they must vacate the house so we can get work done. 

Have you dragged him to a counselor? 

As for your own grad program - if you can't depend on him to make time for you to study, I think you should up the amount of babysitting hours and use them to study. That way you are not left depending on him or arguing with him over it.



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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> Thanks for the ideas, this is really helpful. The time problem is so complex that it would be difficult to explain. Btw we have 3 kids.
> Basically:
> 
> -Dh has a lot of work to do, relating to his job, all the time. However, he doesn't communicate with me about times when he has deadlines, lots of work vs small amount, etc. So his work is never done, he always needs more time on weekends, he claims. He seems to have an unending need and yearning for "time." I think it's a bigger existential issue, it represents freedom, pleasure, a chance to pursue other interests. *No sense going into his head on this.*
> ...


In the words of Dale Carnegie "The best argument is no argument"


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You two are both overworked and failing to meet your commitments to each other and your family.

It's getting externalized at each other instead of introspection.

That's my read.

Something's gotta give.

I hesitate to quote Oprah, but you can have everything, you just can't have it all at once.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Short of putting this all down on paper so you can both visually see that you can get equal time I fear this will continue.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

PenguinCat said:


> Thanks for the ideas, this is really helpful. The time problem is so complex that it would be difficult to explain. Btw we have 3 kids.
> Basically:
> 
> -Dh has a lot of work to do, relating to his job, all the time. However, he doesn't communicate with me about times when he has deadlines, lots of work vs small amount, etc. So his work is never done, he always needs more time on weekends, he claims. He seems to have an unending need and yearning for "time." I think it's a bigger existential issue, it represents freedom, pleasure, a chance to pursue other interests.
> ...


I got a panic attack just reading that!

My advice, it is better to have less and enjoy life than constantly struggle for advancement and be miserable.

Use "time" to enjoy life and yourselves.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why should you be concerned with prioritizing his job over any thing else? That's his job so let him handle it. He obviously isn't handling it very well at work. It sounds like he is in over his head at work and is possibly not the man for the job. If I found out that an employee was working every night and weekends, there would be a consultation to determine if his skills needed upgrading.

He doesn't share his schedule with you because he wants to control how he spends his time. He doesn't care that he's putting a burden on you because it's all about him and HIS JOB!


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

What you posted is interesting. My wife and I love each other and have for over 40 years. We have never had an issue that we could not reach a happy compromise with. Perhaps it is because we consider the wants and needs of each other in any decision that affects the other. From what I read, it sounds like you two are separate people who live together and do not function as a unit. My wife and I do most things together and yet we each have our own space without having to fight for it. We both do not like to make the other feel bad or that her needs are not being met. 

My wife and I are both easy going. We do not like drama or arguments. If I even think that I made my wife sad or mad, I feel guilty and quickly talk to her about it. There is one golden rule that I have found to be very true; a happy wife means a happy life. I can be the alpha male who can get my way at work but at home, we are a team. I could not even imagine doing something that my wife did not approve of. Then again, I fell in love with my wife when I first saw her. I even told my friend that I was not only going to get her to go on a date with me, but would marry her. We laughed, but 3 weeks later I was engaged to her. We are still together after 40 years. Now that I work at home my wife said she needed her space and I can understand that so I spend my day in my man cave/office and am happy to make her happy. I may be weird but I feel good when I make my wife feel good and vice versa. I feel for you and hope you can work things out. Remember that you love each other and that should be enough to make compromise easy.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Everyone is picking up on the larger problems here: why does he need all that time to work? Why can't we spend more time as a family on the weekends? Why can't we consider some lifestyle changes to relieve stress?

In dh's defense, he is often corresponding with clients in foreign countries at odd hours and on their workweek/our weekend. But still, I'm skeptical about this supposedly endless supply of work to be done. Sometimes I feel like it's a blanket excuse to get out of any home maintenance chores. Or an instant way to accuse me of being insensitive to his needs.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> Everyone is picking up on the larger problems here: why does he need all that time to work? Why can't we spend more time as a family on the weekends? Why can't we consider some lifestyle changes to relieve stress?
> 
> In dh's defense, he is often corresponding with clients in foreign countries at odd hours and on their workweek/our weekend. But still, I'm skeptical about this supposedly endless supply of work to be done. Sometimes I feel like it's a blanket excuse to get out of any home maintenance chores. Or an instant way to accuse me of being insensitive to his needs.


I have a good friend whose husband will work up to 20 hours a day, no I'm not kidding. He is the sole provider for their family, so he is the priority time wise. Penguin, are you working as well as going to grad school?


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm not working, going to grad school to train for a new career (have been a sahm for past 11 years). We live in a suburb of NYC where the cost of living is very high, so yes dh's job is very important and should be a priority. And I try to prioritize appropriately, but it's still a constant time struggle.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PenguinCat said:


> I'm not working, going to grad school to train for a new career (have been a sahm for past 11 years). We live in a suburb of NYC where the cost of living is very high, so yes dh's job is very important and should be a priority. And I try to prioritize appropriately, but it's still a constant time struggle.


Make a list of all the things that will not blow up in your face if you stop doing them. These include things for other people, volunteering, nicey-nicey stuff. 

Then stop doing them.

Make a list of all the things that you need to do, but are time sucks. Things like grocery shopping (find a delivery service), housecleaning (find a housecleaner if you can afford it), that kind of thing. Usually they involve paying more to get time back. What that means and what you are comfortable with is up to you.

Then do those things.

Make a list of life priorities that you are not achieving and make you feel bad about yourself. Things like date nights, spending 1-1 time with the kids, whatever.

Then actually prioritize those things. Meaning, they take priority over other things. Not that they get added to the pile of #1 priorities that you have.

You can't control your husband. You can control you. So you do those things.

Once your own life is in control, look at his.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I was assuming kids in the mix, But hey, the question was how to get past an entrenched unsolvable 10 year problem. And Hey, I've never had one. We always solved it sooner. I seem to remember something from the His needs Her needs / marriage builder stuff that I just read through about marital negotiations where both win. The authors name is Willard Harley jr. the website is marriage builders.com

I can tell you this much, you both have to want to solve it. Without you both being committed to finding a solution you will be headed for splitsville.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I hope that works out. * I am just wondering what a person does whose spouse is not willing to negotiate*.


This right here would be the worst part.. the part that renders it hopeless.. and causes a slow growing resentment in the other.. It's not that a couple has disagreements...they will come [email protected]#..... 

But when one of them doesn't care ENOUGH to how it's hurting the other.. causing them pain, sadness, anxiety.. whatever it is...which leads to feeling hopeless.. No.. that's just NOT OK...

Things have to be opened up.. a willingness to hear the other.. and brainstormed till *a peace *is found for both..


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> I'm not working, going to grad school to train for a new career (have been a sahm for past 11 years). We live in a suburb of NYC where the cost of living is very high, so yes dh's job is very important and should be a priority. And I try to prioritize appropriately, but it's still a constant time struggle.


Do you think your H may be becoming resentful for being the sole provider? There could be a possibility that he feels you wanting him to do other things in addition to providing for his family is weighing on him. He may feel you don't appreciate his efforts, or that he's not doing enough for you. In a sense he may feel like he's failing you and you keep pointing out how he can do better.

Did you have any of these issues while you were a Sham? Or did these issues only arise after you started school?

Eta: what type of work does your husband do?


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

He's an attorney. He was very appreciative of me being a sahm because it saved enormously on childcare costs (I could not have earned enough to cover childcare). And it simplified our life, logistics, to have me at home. I think he feels a lot of pressure being the sole provider, yes. And we are stretched pretty thin, no family nearby. We do hire sitters, housekeeper, lawn service because we don't have time to do those jobs. We've basically cut out all volunteering. 

I think some of what's going on is a power issue--I'm asserting some power because now I have school commitments. And when I have the degree I'll be able to support myself if necessary. It's threatening...so "time" becomes a way to throw a tantrum.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Also, to clarify, the time problem didn't start when I entered grad school. Has been going on since we had kids.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> We have several arguably unsolvable issues in our relationship. We discuss them probably once every six months or so. Nothing changes, no one feels better after the conversation is over. We tried MC for some time, while we had a venue for discussing them, they never really changed.
> 
> *We are at the point that our way of dealing with them is basically by rugsweeping them. We ignore them, until it flares up again, we discuss it, and the cycle starts all over again. *


This IS a coping mechanism. You ignore, and blow at regular intervals, like Yellowstone. Marduk's advice holds. If your real issue is your conflict style, that is a different issue.



> You can either learn not to sweat them, learn to mitigate them, or end the relationship.


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