# So many issues, plus now my wife refuses to quit having an EA



## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

Link to the original thread from the Considering Divorce section


We have had a rough marriage, I'm 32, she's 28. We got married very quickly, and things started getting rough just a few months after we got married. So many issues really, please read the link for full background.

We're entering therapy and there has been lots of talk of divorce recently. I've been pushing to save the marriage, and she was as well... until she was contacted by an ex BF of hers with whom she had a mostly long distance relationship, much of it through online chat and webcams, with some occasional meeting up for around 4 years. They were off and on exclusive, sometimes only friends, sometimes online lovers, sometimes exclusive. They had a falling out, stopped speaking for around a year (I think) before she and I met and haven't spoken since. Suddenly she's contacted by him (she says), and she tells me she wants to be friends with him again. I say this is a bad idea, she says it will be simply platonic.

I get suspicious, check up on her, and find out it is obviously inappropriate and sexual in some ways, and definitely an EA (like, textbook definition).

I ask her to quit, she denies it's an EA. I show her the evidence, she's angry, says that's a violation of trust, still denies it's an EA but admits she crossed a line, then promises that that line will never be crossed again. She says things like "I can't give him up, I just got him back". Admits she has feelings of love for him but "just as a friend". When pressured to cut off contact with the other man, she responds with "our marriage is probably too broken to fix, I'm not cutting off my best friend over this"

She's been in contact with him for maybe...2-3 weeks.

I talk to our therapist and she says that she needs to be told to cut off contact immediately. I relay this to my wife, she says she needs this relationship, will not give it up, and would rather get divorced than give it up.

She has her first individual session with the therapist next Wednesday, then we have a couples session the following Tuesday.

I'm finding it terribly hard to let this go on, but if I pressure at all she just threatens divorce.

When I said "it's either me or him" she told me I wasn't permitted to offer ultimatums, and that she wasn't cheating. I said I wasn't willing to live in the same house where this was going on and suggested I go elsewhere until she quits. Effectively she said that she would never quit and I would be ending the relationship by leaving.

When I asked for concessions like her not talking to him until therapy she said she wasn't talking that much any way, but then admitted to talking at work so I wouldn't see her at home.
I said, please just no online cam with him and her response was "But how will I see him? I need to see him"

This man lives overseas, in the military, is never probably coming back to the US, at least not for something like another 12 years. Even the transcripts of their conversation show he has zero interest in returning to the US, but offered to meet her in London if she ended our marriage. 

Lots more info at the link, I'm not going to retype it all, it's just too much.

Help?!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She's choosing him over you and your marriage. What more do you need to know? And setting boundaries and then not enforcing them is worse than not setting them in the first place. It teaches her that you're weak and need her more than she needs you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

She really doesn't care about you or what you think or how this affects you. You're trying to get her to end her "friendship" but she refuses. There's only one option left. End the marriage. If she wakes up, that's the only thing that will do it.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

You aren't allowed to issue an ultimatum? Sounds like she has some big ba!!s, this one.

You have two choices now - tolerate her inappropriate behavior and total lack of respect for you or firmly stand your ground and show her you are not a man to be scr3wed with!

The first choice will earn you the following package: a long, drawn out saga of an EA likely followed by some sort of a PA and her eventually walking out on you. You will be a destroyed shell of a man at this point, with no self-respect and no self-worth.

The second choice will earn you a CHANCE at saving your marriage. If it doesn't snap her out of the fog and re-engage her in the marriage, you will still have restored your self-respect and self-confidence. But either way it allows you to avoid the drawn out misery of watching the woman you married turn into something else entirely while she slowly devours your soul and casts aside your carcass. 

You know you are worth more than this. You know the way she is treating you is totally unacceptable. Demand more. Leave. Kick her out. File for divorce. Whatever you need to do Show her you ARE capable of issuing and delivering on ultimatums. 

And chew on this. Why do you think she is soooooo eager to go back to this guy after they had a falling out? The man that pushed her away is the man that she can't possibly risk upsetting now. Food for thought my friend.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Before you completely give up on your marriage, I suggest that you read the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley.

If you do get the book, don't let her see it. Often the WS will look at comtempt at the BS if they know that the BS is working a plan to recover the marriage. So keep this to yourself.

It's a quick read and will give you good insight into the steps to go through to recover your marriage.

Basically as long as she refuses to give up her affair you cannot start the work to recover your marriage. But there are things you can do to influence her.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

PBear said:


> She's choosing him over you and your marriage. What more do you need to know? And setting boundaries and then not enforcing them is worse than not setting them in the first place. It teaches her that you're weak and need her more than she needs you.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just like a child, if you tell them you are going to spank them if they do something and they do it and you dont spank them...guess what....they will keep doing it! AND your idle threats wont deter them next time, not for a second.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

Part of the problem is that I really lack the funds to move out at this point.
She has me by the balls.
I'm thinking of just letting it go until the couples therapy session in 11 days and addressing it with a therapist as a mediator. Is that something advisable since our ta lking about it on our own seems to just lead to threats of divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

You cant give ultimatum's be she can? WOW, read the newbie link here, read it take the time to digest it...learn it, live it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Indy_Cision said:


> Part of the problem is that I really lack the funds to move out at this point.
> She has me by the balls.
> Well reach into her purse and take them back, and clack them together in her face and say "there mine again and I'm not afraid to use them"
> 
> ...


Buddy she's testing you, seeing if you will stand up to her, you make a demand and you fall flat when she manages you right out of it and this makes you look weak in her eye's (see what I'm saying?) you can not and I repeat you CAN NOT nice them out of an affair (been there done that, it wont work), read here on TAM, read this thread 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61854-caught-my-wife-having-ea-how-did-i-do.html


also get this book, look over the web site to

http://www.shirleyglass.com/


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

This is textbook.

Your marraige has a terminal cancer. No if, and's or but's.

Your only choices....

Walk or play Hardball. 

Hardball Disclaimer: If you don't have the stones to follow through the entire process, save yourself from that long, painful and incredibly difficult journey and opt for the walk option.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Indy_Cision said:


> Part of the problem is that I really lack the funds to move out at this point.
> 
> She has me by the balls.
> 
> I'm thinking of just letting it go until the couples therapy session in 11 days and addressing it with a therapist as a mediator. Is that something advisable since our ta lking about it on our own seems to just lead to threats of divorce?


DO you have the funds to pay the bills where you live by your self?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Indy_Cision said:


> Part of the problem is that I really lack the funds to move out at this point. She has me by the balls.


No, she doesn't. YOUR fear has you by the balls. You are engaged in a battle with someone who has an addiction, a very real and very powerful addiction. You have advantages. What she is going to do and say are very predictable. It will get very ugly, but you are the 'sober' one here.



Indy_Cision said:


> I'm thinking of just letting it go until the couples therapy session in 11 days and addressing it with a therapist as a mediator.


Read this again.... YOUR MARRAIGE HAS AN AGGRESIVE AND HIGHLY TERMINAL DISEASE. You do not 'let it go' for a few weeks. You take decisive action RIGHT NOW.


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## AZman (Nov 27, 2012)

I can understand the financial piece. Most people would agree more money = a more comfortable lifestyle/living situation. Given what you have said is going on, would any amount of money make you feel comfortable? I suspect the answer is "no," so I would try not to focus on that. Granted I am 4-5 days into discovering my wife's EA so I am by far no expert. 

The "Money" issue came up with my wife and I as well, and though I could survive fine on my own income, as a family if I forced her to quit it would be tough (hope that makes sense). But, I told her I would rather be looking at bankruptcy than how I am feeling right now. That shook the crap out of my wife as finances are always a stress point for me, saying that helped show her that for me, the situation truly was unacceptable and I would accept just about any other hell to not continue how I feel. 

Sorry you are here and good luck.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Just glazed over your original thread (link) have you stopped drinking? what are you doing about your anger issues, grabbing her etc, even smacking her!! I also did not mention the incident where I slapped her once and I don't want to misrepresent the level of abuse on my end. Sorry I forgot that, just looking to fully disclose

You've grabbed her, slapped her and she's still with you..WOW


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

File a Petition for a Divorce ASAP.

She is using this threat to keep you in line, take this power away from her by doing it yourself so you have some control.

You are letting her manipulate you and in turn, you are enabling the affair by letting her control the situation. She knows you need to marriage more than her and she is using that to her advantage.

Whether you like it or not, this is going to end badly unless you take a stand and play hard ball. You are not going to nice her back and she isn’t going to just give him up. If anything, the longer this goes on the more likely she is going to up and leave you for him. Beat her to the punch.

Sorry, I know this sucks but if you remain passive and let her make all the choices you will regret not taking action now.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Friends couches.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't move out.

Do file for D.

The fact is your wife has already chosen him over you. Hell he's already making plans with her to meet up if you divorce her. She's in deeply into an affair with her ex.

The trust that was violated her is your trust. You trusted her to be faithful emotionally and physically to you. She broke that trust by resuming a romantic and emotional relationship with another man.

She is obviously sharing intimate details of your marriage with ths OM, which is another violation of trust and loyalty.

The OMs reaction is to offer to meet up in London to have a physical relationship, so obviously there is much more than friendship there.

As for ultimatums you absolutely at all times have the choice to end the marriage and relationship with her,especially when she has chosen to break her vows , because she has not forsaken the OM.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> This is textbook.
> 
> Your marraige has a terminal cancer. No if, and's or but's.
> 
> ...


My man Pit speaks the truth. Listen to me very carefully - my wife is very much like yours and we are in a very similar situation. It's scary actually, how similar.

I went back and forth to throwing my balls at her, and hiding in the fetal position. Throwing the balls is way better for your mental health and self respect.

My wife said the same thing you did - that her OM was no longer a romantic interest, just back to being good friends, and that if I couldn't tolerate her friendship with him then I was the one forcing divorce. 

I said, bullsh*t. And I didn't care if it was an ultimatum. I said full no contact, or I will leave you. She went full no contact when push came to shove. At least so far. 

Wallowing around, tolerating a relationship that either is, or was, completely inappropriate will eat away at your soul and kill your heart. Believe me. I lived it. 

Throw your balls at her. Now.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

I have begun therapy for the anger issues. I am in AA and I go to a meeting every day and have quit drinking.

I'm so on the fence about all this. I want so badly for this to work, and because of the abuse I am so scared that if I leave she will simply call it quits and say "First you abused me, then you abandoned me".

On the other hand I want to simply gather what money I have, get my stuff together and move out immediately. I've been considering getting a week rate hotel to avoid starting a new lease or getting a roommate in an effort to make enough impact that I show that I'm playing hardball and will not tolerate the EA.

I will admit, I feel scared and heartbroken. I am an emotional stressed out anxious wreck right now. I have no idea how to deal with this. If I leave I will be at odds with her family, I will have to figure out how to come back and get my stuff... and I'm not sure what the therapist will say about that. I'm trying really hard to work with the therapist on this so that if there is a chance that we will have an opportunity to fix things using her rather than rushing into actions that cause more damage. That's why I'm considering just living with it until we can get to the couples session to have that mediation.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Indy_Cision said:


> I have begun therapy for the anger issues. I am in AA and I go to a meeting every day and have quit drinking.
> 
> I'm so on the fence about all this. I want so badly for this to work, and because of the abuse I am so scared that if I leave she will simply call it quits and say "First you abused me, then you abandoned me".
> 
> ...


You don't move out show her you mean business pack her stuff up in garbage bags and kick her out the way you have acted previously she will most likely be in shock and will either walk or wake up and want to work on the marriage. Show some lluevos it's the only chance you have.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

There is no way I can kick her out because I was abusive in the past. There is no actual proof of it, but it will come into play and I would imagine that it will cause the situation to explode into law involvement, involvement of her family, it will be a total explosion. Not good. I think that's a terrible idea.

Look, if I was a perfect husband, or even a good husband and had not done all these wrong things I would feel fully justified and comfortable with kicking her out and even outing her to her parents for her actions... but because of my actions it complicates the situation. Read the original thread. I feel like many of these answers are based solely on this thread and lack the background.

I can just post it all in here if that's what is needed.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Indy_Cision said:


> I ask her to quit, she denies it's an EA. I show her the evidence, she's angry, says that's a violation of trust, still denies it's an EA but admits she crossed a line, then promises that that line will never be crossed again. She says things like "I can't give him up, I just got him back". Admits she has feelings of love for him but "just as a friend". When pressured to cut off contact with the other man, she responds with "our marriage is probably too broken to fix, I'm not cutting off my best friend over this"


This entire paragraph just f'ng hurts to read. Violation of trust?! Are you kidding me? SHE'S the one violating the sanctity of your marriage cuz she "just got him back". WTF?!! The Land of Unicorns & Rainbows must have a winter special going on this week!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

If your going to the therapist to address your drinking issues please continue. But you're wasting your time and money if you're trying to improve your marriage while she continues her online affair. 

Asking the therapist to lay the law down on your behalf makes you look weak. And it won't work. 

Why are you afraid of her parents? Go over to their home and tell them your wife will be living in their home as long as she continues to have an affair. PERIOD.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm afraid of her parents because they won't care that she had an affair when they compare that to the fact that I was abusive. How is this not clear.
Same reason I can't kick her out.
Same reason the whole situation is messed up beyond the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't move out.

However you can :

1. Exposé the affair
2. Post the OM on cheaterville.com
3. C-block his communication with your wife by inserting yourself as much as you can into her daily contact with him. If she's talking on the phone to him, get in your phone an call his number over and over.
Send him texts constantly, just send random junk, not threats, heck send him free porn, food recipes, camera reviews.

Just send him stuff to annoy him, but send it as his buddy.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Look you showed you do have balls, you stood up, quit drinking going to AA, going to therapy for your anger issues and you are OWNING your problems ....thats what a man does.

No matter what you did or didnt do, is no excuse for her to be involved with this guy..NONE..I was a **** ass husband back in the day, my 1st IC guy tried to make me think I was partly to blame for my wifes e/a...I almost bought that BS..almost...Dont buy into it either, it's like your trying to convince yourself you deserve this...No you dont!

You didnt make her do shat, she is choosing this OM over her husband, playing the you did this crap to me is a little kids game, if you suck so bad and she cant forgive you,then she should move the effe out..

If you threaten,divorce,exposure etc, be prepared to back it up and do it...the longer you sit around doing nothing about it, the more time she has to bond with this guy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Indy_Cision said:


> There is no way I can kick her out because I was abusive in the past. There is no actual proof of it, but it will come into play and I would imagine that it will cause the situation to explode into law involvement, involvement of her family, it will be a total explosion. Not good. I think that's a terrible idea.
> 
> Look, if I was a perfect husband, or even a good husband and had not done all these wrong things I would feel fully justified and comfortable with kicking her out and even outing her to her parents for her actions... but because of my actions it complicates the situation. Read the original thread. I feel like many of these answers are based solely on this thread and lack the background.
> 
> I can just post it all in here if that's what is needed.


Have you even considered reading the book I've suggested? It would answer a lot of your questions. It would give you a solid direction. It's hard here to give someone the depth and breath of advice that is available in that book.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Throw your balls at her. Now.


I am not making light of this situation at all but I literally laughed out loud when I read that!! Thats hilarious!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Indy_Cision said:


> I'm afraid of her parents because they won't care that she had an affair when they compare that to the fact that I was abusive. How is this not clear.
> Same reason I can't kick her out.
> Same reason the whole situation is messed up beyond the affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cision, 
I understand your guilt. You were not a good husband. You have faults. You're an alcoholic, you mistreated her, you gave her a reason to divorce you. 

These rationalizations are sufficient for forgiving what she's done and require atonement on your part. But they are not reasons for allowing her to continue what she's doing. That's a whole other thing. 

If her parents approve of her affair then fine! So be it. Let them take care of her. Tell them you are dealing with your alcoholism (a disease). They can deal with her while she continues her infidelity (a choice). 

Tell them you look forward to the day you can resume counseling with her to improve your marriage. But it won't happen as long as there are three people involved - and you're not in the top two.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Just because you do something doesn't give her the justification to do something else. 

You realize this short of a marriage (hoping it's short) means she hopefully can't take you for everything you own right? 

Besides, just because you abused her, does not mean she can go out and have an EA.
So you can kick her out. 
You just don't want to, because you are afraid you will slip back into that abusive person that you were. That you will become something you don't want to see again. 

So instead, you'd rather sit here, wait it out, hope she realizes the dream is a farce, and come running to your arms. 

Only problem is, everyday she sees you, drives her into the OM's arms only more. 

It is only a matter of time until she plans a vacation to London.

You need to divorce. You need to start following through on some threats.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Tell her you are divorcing her lying and cheating ass. If she is willing to divorce you over a friendship, it isn't much of a marriage anyway


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Broken at 20 said:


> You realize this short of a marriage (hoping it's short) means she hopefully can't take you for everything you own right?


I believe that he said that she has supported him through much of the marriage. I believe he also said that he's been unemployed for a while now. She as a rightfully has a claim at half the assets accumulated since marriage regardless of if she's in an EA or not.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

I supported her more, and I was unemployed for 8 months. She was unemployed for 6. We've supported each other basically.

She agreed to cut contact tonight, no badgering or anything. She offered it because she said her feelings for the OM were clouding her ability to work on our marriage. She said she couldn't divorce me unless she gave me a fair chance, and she wasn't doing that while continuing that. She's still pretty reluctant to say she was doing anything more than just a little bit wrong, but we'll discuss that in therapy.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Indy_Cision said:


> I supported her more, and I was unemployed for 8 months. She was unemployed for 6. We've supported each other basically.
> 
> She agreed to cut contact tonight, no badgering or anything. She offered it because she said her feelings for the OM were clouding her ability to work on our marriage. She said she couldn't divorce me unless she gave me a fair chance, and she wasn't doing that while continuing that. She's still pretty reluctant to say she was doing anything more than just a little bit wrong, but we'll discuss that in therapy.


Good, but...make sure you get all her passwords and she discloses all of her e-mail accounts, online forum memberships, FB password, smart phone access, etc... You also need to verify that she's doing what she says she is. Unfortunately, you cannot trust your wife right now. If she refuses to grant you access to her accounts and be transparent, then you are definitely NOT out of the woods yet. Full transparency or it doesn't work.


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## Indy_Cision (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm working on that
she's offered to show me anything at any time that I want
I'm willing to work on it


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope that the two of you can fix this. your marriage could end up better than it has ever been....


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