# How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to you?



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to you?*

On another thread & from time to time -- this subject comes up, half of the responses DO believe in it , likely half do not. I am not a proponent of *Unconditional Love*. If I claimed I was, I would feel like a liar.... if my husband started treating me like dirt, hurting our children, causing our life to be a living nightmare, became an physical abuser, was having affairs behind my back, whatever, the love would dry up like a withered stick and I would want out. 

I DO have conditions to my loving & giving my heart to another. I TRUST to be treated with love, honor, respect, honesty & Faithfulness - for the most part . Of course we have BAD days & get out of hand and we say & do things to hurt each other (I am not talking about little stuff like this, hair nail issues as one poster put it, for me, I count that as NOTHING in the scheme of living) --but the bigger issues --yeah, I have conditions.

And I fully expect, from MY end - to give love, honor, respect, honesty, faithfulness, having the best intentions for my spouse --if I want to receive his love in return. 

Also, for the life of me, I can *not *understand why the religious claim God's love is unconditional. Maybe here on earth He doesn't strike us with a lightning bolt even when we do the most gruesomest of crimes- might he better if he did -I'd vote for it -- so some innocent victims could be spared, like little children of child molesters, some buried alive for goodness sakes. 

...... But ultimately -once this life is over, how can anyone claim this -there are very very clear "conditions" that must be met --to OBEY and accept his SON as 'Savior" & take up that cross, or we have an appointment in Hell. Am I to believe this GOD is still loving those people in Hell, or his Love is ONLY "unconditional" while we breathe air on this earth ?? 


I am curious what conditions others have on love and if you claim "Unconditional", do you believe you can still divorce and feel this way? I am not 'getting it". I believe in forgiving people, none of us are perfect of course, nor do I expect anyone to be --forgiveness helps US move on in life, I "like" peace, and reconciliation as well as the next person, maybe even more. 

But unconditional love seems wrong to me, although it sounds beautiful, I feel it can be MASSIVELY abused by some unscrupulous spouses, like...."here I am, look at me, the doormat". I just don't agree with it.

Neither does many Marraige counselors - Marriage Builders does not. 

What's Wrong with Unconditional Love (Part 1)

Is Unconditional Love Possible - Conditions And Love

The Teaching That Love is Unconditional Makes A Mockery of Human Liberty and Justice.

Is Unconditional Love Possible - Conditions And Love


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Yes unconditional love is possible.

I love my daughter and I cant see how a parent could place "conditions" on that relationship. Lets say she becomes a serial killer and is not remorseful, would I stop loving her? No. Would I want her to serve time in jail? Yes.

I think you're confusing love with something else. You can love someone and not be a doormat. My wife cheated on me and I divorced her, I want nothing to do with her as she has broken something special and betrayed me. However, part of me still loves her because over the course of 10 years we built a relationship and had a child together. I cant drop that feeling in a short space of time. So its unconditional, whether I like it or not - same with my daughter.

If you discipline your child you are acting out of love, even though the act is perceived by the child to be unpleasant. God's love is the same, there are no favourites. Everyone has a choice, they can either embrace what God offers or reject it. Rejection = hell. Its one or the other, its people that choose if they want God's love or not.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

While I agree with most of what you said there is one exception to this. I will always love my children unconditionaly. This is my only exception to this rule.
I cannot love anybody else unconditionaly although my wife is as close to it as anybody could get but their is limitations. She has put me through the ringer and then some but I still love her. If she ever cheated on me, hit me out of anger (I am big on this, I will NEVER hit a woman so I expect the same in return), or beat my children. Their are a few more things but they are mostly in line with those 3.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Indy Nial said:


> Yes unconditional love is possible.
> 
> I love my daughter and I cant see how a parent could place "conditions" on that relationship. Lets say she becomes a serial killer and is not remorseful, would I stop loving her? No. Would I want her to serve time in jail? Yes.
> 
> ...


So are you saying that you will always love your wife or just for a long time? 
I am sure this is a pretty rare thing but somewhere along the line I have learned to detatch myself from somebody really quick. The one little bit about this is once it is gone it stays gone.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Maybe there are three types of love within the context of the thread. Unconditional Love, Tough Love and Conditional Love.

I think those who love their spouse unconditionally are headed for big trouble. This is a love without boundaries, without rules. And if the spouse is abusive in anyway unconditional love enables the abuse to continue, mainly the physical abuse of the wife or the emotional abuse of the husband. Unconditional love is the love of the codependent, it’s the codependent’s unconditional love that brings the codependent their pain.

Even with children I believe unconditional love to be very wrong. If the child is wayward in anyway, especially when young when they are learning most, it’s a parent’s unconditional love that enables the child to carry that wayward behaviour into their adult life. These types of behaviour are stopped by tough love and enabled by unconditional love. Again a love without healthy boundaries (or rules) will produce an adult without boundaries. It is for the parent to produce children who have healthy boundaries, rules, concerning how they treat others and how they let others treat them. I believe it one of the biggest tasks of a parent, to rear children with healthy boundaries. Sometimes it is very cruel to be kind. Sometimes a parent must hurt themselves to help their child.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

There is no such thing as "unconditional love". Regardless of how much you love your spouse or even child, all of us have limits on the quantity or kinds of abusive behaviors we will tolerate. You love your child? How long would you let them live in your house if they assaulted you with a baseball bat every day? Love your spouse unconditionally? That means they can assault you, cook meth in the basement, have sex with multiple partners in your presence and you will tolerate all of it. 
The bond between parent and child is as close to "unconditional" as one can ever get and even that can be broken no matter how long-suffering a parent is. Unconditional love is not only a fairy tale, it's a dangerous concept. If one assumes they deserve unconditional love, one must believe there is no need to monitor one's own behavior nor to pay attention to the needs and wishes of their partner. They must believe there is no circumstance which could ever separate them from their spouse's love. Trust me, the most loving and patient heart can be turned sour if one tries long enough. If we want love, we have to act lovingly. Our actions carry consequences and that fact doesn't change when we get married.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



AFEH said:


> Maybe there are three types of love within the context of the thread. Unconditional Love, Tough Love and Conditional Love.


I think you're right and wrong at the same time. I think unconditional love & tough love are one in the same. Unconditional by definition means there are "no conditions" to loving another. That's why we still love our children or our spouses even when they mess up. 

Tough love is a part of unconditional love because it means that you're willing to be tough on those you love WHEN they mess up. You discipline your child, particularly at young ages, because you love them and you dont' want to see them going in the wrong direction and making some horrible mistakes. With a spouse, you can still love them but yet understand that you can't change them. 

I don't think it has nothing to do with boundaries. It has everything to do with choice. My wife is committing adultery. I can't change that yet I still love her. We haven't spoken in almost 5 months. I haven't tried to find out what she's doing. But yet I still love her. 

My boundary is that I refuse to be apart of her life while she's wayward. I refuse to be a part of her life while she's in this state of mind. Does that mean I no longer love her or that I have no boundaries? No, it just means that loving someone unconditionally sometimes means realizing your love is not enough to prevent someone from making horrible choices. 

Children are the same way. You don't stop loving them when they are on drugs or living recklessly. You just realize that you have to let them live their lives and learn some of life's hard lessons. 

With a wife/husband, child or whatever, when they wake up and realize their mistakes, unconditional love says that you'll be there to show them you still love them.


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## Triumph (Oct 8, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

My love is 100% conditional.

Unconditional love is how other people like to one-up us simple folk who are pathetically capable of only expressing regular love.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



AFEH said:


> Maybe there are three types of love within the context of the thread. Unconditional Love, Tough Love and Conditional Love.
> 
> I think those who love their spouse unconditionally are headed for big trouble. This is a love without boundaries, without rules. And if the spouse is abusive in anyway unconditional love enables the abuse to continue, mainly the physical abuse of the wife or the emotional abuse of the husband. Unconditional love is the love of the codependent, it’s the codependent’s unconditional love that brings the codependent their pain.
> 
> Even with children I believe unconditional love to be very wrong. If the child is wayward in anyway, especially when young when they are learning most, it’s a parent’s unconditional love that enables the child to carry that wayward behaviour into their adult life. These types of behaviour are stopped by tough love and enabled by unconditional love. Again a love without healthy boundaries (or rules) will produce an adult without boundaries. It is for the parent to produce children who have healthy boundaries, rules, concerning how they treat others and how they let others treat them. I believe it one of the biggest tasks of a parent, to rear children with healthy boundaries. Sometimes it is very cruel to be kind. Sometimes a parent must hurt themselves to help their child.


Just because my child ****s up and I have to punish them in some way does not diminish my love for them. If any of my children hit me with a baseball bat that would not change the fact that I love them. Would they pay the price? HELL YA. But I would still love them.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



uphillbattle said:


> Just because my child ****s up and I have to punish them in some way does not diminish my love for them. If any of my children hit me with a baseball bat that would not change the fact that I love them. Would they pay the price? HELL YA. But I would still love them.


That is kind of my thinking as well. I do not have kids yet, but I truly believe I would love them regardless. If they were to do something terrible, I may not like what they have done, but it wouldn't mean I wouldn't love them.

I know a couple right now who has a teen age son who is always in trouble, in and out of jail. He is just a really troubled person. When he did something that his parents found to be unacceptable, and put them and himself in harms way, they had him removed from the home, and sent to get some help.

I remember them telling me and my family how much they love their son, however, they will not tolerate certain behaviors from him. To me, that can be viewed as unconditional love as well. They love him enough to know not to tolerate his BEHAVIOR but yet they still love HIM. 

I think you can have unconditional love for someone but still have boundaries. Just because you wouldn't tolerate someone behavior doesn't mean you don't love them. This is JMO though.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Some say that love is a choice. I believe that this is only partly true. To treat someone with love is a choice. However, to love unconditionally is not so much a choice as it is a compulsion. It is a feeling that comes from deep down inside of you whether you wish to have it or not. 

You love your children unconditionally. It does not matter what they do in their life. They can do things that disappoint you. They can be disrespectful and you will still love them. You may wonder sometimes why this is. Why is it that my children can do things that I would never accept from other people, and yet I continue to love and cherish them? The answer is true unconditional love.

When we choose to treat someone with love and respect it is a result of our social conditioning. We have learned that this is how you are supposed to behave toward people that you love. When others treat is in ways that does not meet our social conditioning for how others should treat us, then we can choose to stop treating them with love and respect. This is how most of our social connections work. They are based almost entirely on social convention.

However, there are some relationships that buck the trend. In these relationships the other person does not always behave in line with our expectations for them and yet we love them anyway. It is almost as if we cannot help it. This is the power of true unconditional love. True love does not care if the other person has done anything to earn it or not. It just flows because that is what its purpose is. 

Unconditional means just that, without condition. You can choose to treat your spouse with or without love, and you can choose to stay with them or not. However, if you truly love your spouse unconditionally, then you will give them your love under any circumstances. And when you do, and you do so freely, you will find that most if not all of your marriage issues become like vapors in the air. They are exposed for the illusion that they are.

As I have said many times, most of our suffering stems from social conditioning. Someone behaves in a way that does not meet our expectations and this makes us confused and frustrated. Why are they not doing what they are supposed to be doing? The vast majority of this suffering is completely unnecessary. It stems not from what your partner is or is not doing, but from how you choose to perceive it. You defined rules, and the rules were not observed, so now you are upset. This is self created suffering. You created the rules, you decided that the rules had been broken, and you chose to get upset in response.

It stands to reason that the more rules you create for happiness, the more opportunities there will be for suffering when your rules are broken.
Most people find it very difficult to imagine a relationship in which there are no rules. What if there were no conditions that had to be met before I would love my spouse. That would be chaos. They could do whatever they wanted and I would still have to love them. Thoughts like this stem from a lack of faith in one self.

There are two ways of living your life. You either live from love, or you live from fear. People who use and abuse others live from fear. People who carefully guard themselves and only expose their hearts after another person has proven they can be trusted are also living from fear. In both cases, the fearful mentality stems from a lack of love for one self. The users and abusers do not have faith that others will love them exactly as they are, so they feel compelled to extract what they need form the world in manipulative ways. The guarded people do not believe that anyone else will love them completely and thus they do not trust anyone. They live ever in fear of being hurt.

The truth is that you cannot take love from another person. They either give it willingly, or it is not love. It is also impossible for anyone to take your dignity and self respect from you. If you choose to love yourself, then no one else can take that away from you, regardless of what they do.

You know in your heart that you are a good person, a loving person, a person that only wants the best for yourself and the people in your life. You love yourself enough to not be affected by the thoughts and actions of others. You love yourself enough to know that when you take the high road, you project nothing but love for yourself and others and that love will be returned to you. Even if your current spouse is not behaving in loving ways toward you it does not shake your sense of inner strength. Nor does it change your behavior toward them. You will love, honor, and cherish them even if they cannot return your love and choose to move out of your life. You love yourself enough to allow the people in your life to choose to treat you the same as you will ALWAYS treat them, loving unconditionally!

This is a critical point to understand. If you choose to love yourself, then you live in love. It does not matter if other people are validating your choice or not. You create your own reality. If you choose love, then love is what you have.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



uphillbattle said:


> Just because my child ****s up and I have to punish them in some way does not diminish my love for them. If any of my children hit me with a baseball bat that would not change the fact that I love them. Would they pay the price? HELL YA. But I would still love them.


:iagree:


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I do believe in unconditional love. 
I may not allow someone in my life because their behaviors fall outside of my boundaries, but that doesn't mean I stop "loving" them.
I just choose to not allow them in my life. I still care deeply if they are well, would help if asked, but I don't want their influences on my soul. I don't believe in judging others for their behaviors, because it's behavior, not them. 
I prefer to think that people are all in different stages in life. Some have learned more skills than others. Instead of judging them, maybe I could learn something from them, or vice versa. 

Conditional love, to me, is a judgement of worthiness. I am only the judge of myself.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unconditional love simply means that you will always love that person. It does not mean that you will always be with that person or like that person or accept how that person treats you or what choices that person makes.

If you don't unconditionally love others then you are unable to let go of your own ego to appreciate the beauty of our collective humanity.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> Unconditional love simply means that you will always love that person. It does not mean that you will always be with that person or like that person or accept how that person treats you or what choices that person makes.
> 
> If you don't unconditionally love others then you are unable to let go of your own ego to appreciate the beauty of our collective humanity.


:iagree:

To me unconditional love can also mean, you care enough and love that person enough to be able to set boundaries, and consequences. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. Husband/wife, children, friends, whoever, it doesn't mean you love them any less because they have done something you don't like.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

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I`m with you SA for the same reasons.

If my daughter did become a serial killer it would indeed affect my love for her.

I don`t believe unconditional love is even possible considering what I see around me.

We all put conditions on our love whether we realize it or not.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



tacoma said:


> I`m with you SA for the same reasons.
> 
> If my daughter did become a serial killer it would indeed affect my love for her.
> 
> ...


It is possible to still love someone and set conditions as to how that person plays a role in your life and what you will accept. I think that's the misconception, the love is unconditional, that doesn't mean everything else is too.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> It is possible to still love someone and set conditions as to how that person plays a role in your life and what you will accept. I think that's the misconception, the love is unconditional, that doesn't mean everything else is too.


:iagree:

(sorry I'm not typing a lot....I'm just "agreeing" today because I am sick with the stomach flu!)


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unconditional love is for children, developmentally disabled and the mentally ill, people who are vulnerable. Committed love is for relationships. 

Lyn


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Triumph said:


> Unconditional love is how other people like to one-up us simple folk who are pathetically capable of only expressing regular love.


I laughed when I read this -cause this just about describes how I feel when I get into these conversations with many Unconditional love believers, like they must LOVE more DEEPLY than me or something, and I really don't feel that is true, but yep, they are one upping me. 

My husband & I had this conversation a few times, he tells me he loves me 'unconditionally" so I pushed the bar a little, asked what if I cheated on him, he said he'd still love me, not sure where the marriage would go but he could forgive me. So I said there has to be something I could DO that would cut it off -.... he paused, then answered .... "if you did a Susan Smith, killed one of the children...that would be it -the love GONE"! That to him would be completely & utterly-eternally unforgivable, he would mourn the memories, but NO love would survive. And of coarse I agree with that !! 

I feel some people conditions may be HIGHER, more stringent, but they are still there - why can't we admit this. I guess I am stuck on this believe of how do you love someone and banish them from your lives.

Of course I get the idea you discipline your children when they are bad and still love them -but these are LITTLE things, Suzie bit Billy, Billy threw sand in Suzie's face.... Suzie is sassing Mom, whatever --small things -they need discipline. I just can't get past the BIGGER things. How you still love. For me, the love would be in the past. NOT continuing. That is my issue. 

I haven't been tested in this situation by any means, so it is hard for me to relate too, or even offer how it would feel.

If my daughter grows up and does a Susan Smith, she DESERVES the death penalty, I may cry my eyes out but that is JUSTICE in my eyes. I am not sure what kind of emotions I would be dealing with, I seriously doubt much love would be in the mix, I believe I would HATE her for taking the life of my grand children. Can't even fathom the thought. 

Most serial killers do not have LOVE in their lives-most are likely antisocial , so it has to be tough to even be close to them, but what is funny is --after they kill ...their parents will come out of the wood work and say they still "LOVE" them. It is just words. I think Love is overused, abused, easy to say -but where is the action. 

I am so happy you answered AFEH, I was hoping YOU would more than anyone -because you always break things done, I think almost identical to you. 


I have to wonder if some of this is being misconstrued over what LOVE is (or our interpretations) ...and what FORGIVENESS is..... I don't think the way we feel after forgiveness always = LOVE at all..... Since true forgiveness liberates the forgiver, and has little to do with the forgiven.




deejov said:


> I do believe in unconditional love.
> I may not allow someone in my life because their behaviors fall outside of my boundaries, but that doesn't mean I stop "loving" them.
> I just choose to not allow them in my life. I still care deeply if they are well, would help if asked, but I don't want their influences on my soul.



Ok here is where I am tripped up. Notice this.... I love unconditionally....BUT I choose to not allow them in my life. Ok questions... if they are not allowed in your life, how can you help them. Are they not a scorge to you, like a leper. And surely they are going to realize you don't want them in your life. How can anyone say this is not judgement of some sort. 

Believe me, I am NOT getting on you, my point here is ...everyone throws the "Love " term around too easy. BUt I seriously doubt any one of us would feel LOVED ...if we were SHUT out of someone's life. 

I have an Aunt, I do not like her, I don't like her behaviour, I don't want her in my life, but guess what, I am not going around saying I unconditionally love her either. Just words. I bet your actions towards those you unconidtionally love -who you shut out --- are pretty near the same as mine towards my Aunt. Sure I might help her too -if I didn't have to see her or get together. Maybe I'll send some money. What makes the unconditionally lovers any better than the rest of us.



Trenton said:


> Unconditional love simply means that you will always love that person. It does not mean that you will always be with that person or like that person or accept how that person treats you or what choices that person makes.


Now notice Trenton's words here ....Unconditional love means that you will always LOVE that person...BUT you may not always be with that person or LIKE that person .

So we are infact unconditionally loving but admitting with the same tongue we don't even LIKE that person!! 

Sorry --this is too complicated for me. What the heck is wrong with saying...that person gets on my nervers, I don't like thier behavior, I don't need them in my life but hey, to each his own -doesn't mean I hate them, but doesn't mean I would be throwing around the Love term either. 

Love is an awesome word, I still feel it is being way overused- to make us look like better peoople. 

This is the meaning of love according to Dictionary.com :


> 1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
> 2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
> 3. sexual passion or desire.
> 4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
> 5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?


When we don't like someone or want them in our lives, these definitions do not exactly apply , now do they?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

For sure, I believe there is such a thing as 'unconditional' love. It is love for someone regardless of their behavior, actions, or beliefs.

God unconditionally loves the murderer or the child molester, just as he loves the murdered and the child. He loves them even though he does not like their behavior.

You can love people unconditionally. I love my kids with all my heart regardless of some of the rotten things they do. I even love that scrappy little puppy we just got even though she pees on my rug everyday and has chewed the edge of the sofa.

Loving someone unconditionally does not mean that you yourself are a doormat or held hostage to that love. You don't have to take the rotten behavior someone doles out to you. You can still love that person, but not condone or even agree to live with that person because of their behavior, beliefs, or actions.

When it all comes down to it, that's really what LOVE is all about. Perhaps we don't need to preface it with any other descriptors at all.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I laughed when I read this -cause this just about describes how I feel when I get into these conversations with many Unconditional love believers, like they must LOVE more DEEPLY than me or something, and I really don't feel that is true, but yep, they are one upping me.
> 
> My husband & I had this conversation a few times, he tells me he loves me 'unconditionally" so I pushed the bar a little, asked what if I cheated on him, he said he'd still love me, not sure where the marriage would go but he could forgive me. So I said there has to be something I could DO that would cut it off -.... he paused, then answered .... "if you did a Susan Smith, killed one of the children...that would be it -the love GONE"! That to him would be completely & utterly-eternally unforgivable, he would mourn the memories, but NO love would survive. And of coarse I agree with that !!
> 
> ...


It's not one up'ing you on my part, that would be like me saying I feel you are telling me I love too much and am stupid or naive and are trying to tell me I'm wrong for my beliefs because they don't match yours.

I don't feel that either is the case here (correct me if I'm wrong on your part). I think we all feel the same but recognize those feelings differently. That is what makes the world go round.

For me, those I love can disappoint me without me having to stop loving them. We can refuse to accept their choices and still love them. 

It may just come down to semantics.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Enchantment said:


> For sure, I believe there is such a thing as 'unconditional' love. It is love for someone regardless of their behavior, actions, or beliefs.
> 
> God unconditionally loves the murderer or the child molester, just as he loves the murdered and the child. He loves them even though he does not like their behavior.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Many people don't understand the difference between how we love one another and how God loves. We Christians are to love the same way God loves. Period. The world's definition of love is different. The world's love will end when people start acting a certain way or when they start doing certain things. God's love is to those who don't deserve it. It's not based on actions, unmet expectations, failing to meet certain standards. It's loving no matter what.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I believe in unconditional love, and have never had a problem with it. 

I guess if you believe in it and it works for you fine, If you don't believe in it and works for you, thats fine too.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> It is possible to still love someone and set conditions as to how that person plays a role in your life and what you will accept. I think that's the misconception, the love is unconditional, that doesn't mean everything else is too.


I love my wife.

If she were to break my boundary of fidelity in our marriage I would still love her though I would divorce her.

How long do you think I`m going to be able to maintain that love for my wife dealing with the ugliness of divorce and then my life afterward?
Why would I want to maintain it?
The best thing that could happen for me would be to lose it entirely.

That love will die because it didn`t meet the conditions I needed it to meet to survive let alone thrive.

Therefore the love I have for my wife is conditional.

If when I get home from work today I open the door to find my daughter sitting atop the mutilated corpse of my step son eating his liver with a 2 ounce ice cream scoop I`m going to have some problems with my love for her.

The love I have for my daughter is conditional.

Maybe I`m wrong and unconditional love is possible.
It`s most definitely not possible for me however and I`m pretty sure I wouldn`t practice it if it were.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

One may internally feel whatever they want to feel but every one of us will withdraw all forms of loving behavior from any individuals if the relationship becomes abusive enough or if the relationship threatens your own survival. You may love your puppy even though it pees on your rug but if that dog grows up and viciously and continuously attacks you or your kids you will lovingly put it to sleep. Given a choice between the puppy and starvation, most would slaughter and eat the dog they claim to love unconditionally. There is a limit beyond which any spouse will leave, any parent will toss a kid out or call the police against their kid or testify for the prosecution against their kid. There is a limit beyond which every one here would forever cease contact with any other person. 
As all humans have to psychologically justify their actions, if we withdraw all forms of loving behaviors long enough, we will no longer be able to even feel love for that person.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I like this quote ....“*Love is just a word until someone comes along and gives it meaning*.” -Unknown

I am not someone who throws the word around alot, because If I am not going to put clear attentive action in someone's life, I would feel like a hypocrite talking about how much I unconditionally love others. 

Trenton you are likely right, we probably do feel the same but look at it differntly somehow. 

The thing is...if we was to sit down & LIST everyone in our lives who we felt GENUINELY loved us- unconditionally -- I can bet you....our lists would be shorter than those who CLAIM they love us --but don't bestow it on us, and we'd be thinking --"Why in the H would they be saying that, they have nothing to even do with me!".

I'd say that is a problem. If these people we are claiming we unconditionally love -if this is 100% true in it's intention, those recipients damn well should FEEL it. 

Or again....just words, to somehow make "us" feel better about ourselves. 

This is where I am coming from I guess.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



unbelievable said:


> One may internally feel whatever they want to feel but every one of us will withdraw all forms of loving behavior from any individuals if the relationship becomes abusive enough or if the relationship threatens your own survival. You may love your puppy even though it pees on your rug but if that dog grows up and viciously and continuously attacks you or your kids you will lovingly put it to sleep. Given a choice between the puppy and starvation, most would slaughter and eat the dog they claim to love unconditionally. There is a limit beyond which any spouse will leave, any parent will toss a kid out or call the police against their kid or testify for the prosecution against their kid. There is a limit beyond which every one here would forever cease contact with any other person.
> As all humans have to psychologically justify their actions, if we withdraw all forms of loving behaviors long enough, we will no longer be able to even feel love for that person.



Well said.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

In direct response to your love/like quote from above that cited my previous post...Can you not recognize the parts of a person you love even if there are behaviors or parts of them you don't like?

Let me give you the best example I can come up with. My father sexually abused me, my mother stayed with him. I still love both of them. The hardest part for me was disliking two people I admired so much growing up and seeing them as human/flawed/dangerous but once I got past this I realized it wasn't that one dimensional.

We do choose how we deal and feel about things, we all do. We can choose to judge and feel disgusted and cast the person out of our lives. I won't fault anyone who wants to do this and yes, we all judge, just differently.

I choose to continue to love, not be taken advantage of, but continue to love.

You can choose to tell me I'm wrong because I don't feel the same way you think I should about it but that's you and I'm not you.

For me, my connections to others are very important. If someone wants to connect with me I am open to that connection regardless of past actions or choices. I hear from my husband all the time that this places me in dangerous situations but for me the alternative makes me miserable. I believe people can change for the good as much as they can change for the bad. I believe in possibilities for both and I get a lot of joy from my interactions with others and that's where the love for humanity comes from. It doesn't mean I'm better than you or tapped into a higher form of love. It's just a choice I make that helps me out too.

I'm not saying you don't believe in possibilities. I'm just saying you don't believe in the same possibilities. I'm also not saying you're less of a person because you don't feel like me. I'm saying it's how I feel.


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

My feeling is that unconditional love is a love which doesn't necessarily need accountability for the ones who are getting it.

L


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I like this quote ....“*Love is just a word until someone comes along and gives it meaning*.” -Unknown
> 
> I am not someone who throws the word around alot, because If I am not going to put clear attentive action in someone's life, I would feel like a hypocrite talking about how much I unconditionally love others.
> 
> ...


They have to be open to feeling it, SA. We can't be responsible for whether or not someone else feels loved, we can only do our best at loving them.

If your children are incapable of understanding all you've done for them (many are until they grow up and have their own children) does this make what you feel for them less?

I think you're saying that you don't like the hypocrisy of a person who says they love unconditionally but takes no action on that love or shows quite the opposite, but that's a very different argument from whether or not unconditional love exists.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



unbelievable said:


> One may internally feel whatever they want to feel but every one of us will withdraw all forms of loving behavior from any individuals if the relationship becomes abusive enough or if the relationship threatens your own survival. You may love your puppy even though it pees on your rug but if that dog grows up and viciously and continuously attacks you or your kids you will lovingly put it to sleep. Given a choice between the puppy and starvation, most would slaughter and eat the dog they claim to love unconditionally. There is a limit beyond which any spouse will leave, any parent will toss a kid out or call the police against their kid or testify for the prosecution against their kid. There is a limit beyond which every one here would forever cease contact with any other person.
> As all humans have to psychologically justify their actions, if we withdraw all forms of loving behaviors long enough, we will no longer be able to even feel love for that person.


Yet plenty of parents would give their lives for their children and many men and women have died giving their lives for their nation and/or beliefs. Do we call that stupidity because it is not inherently selfish or do we say they were selfish too but for different reasons?

All I'm saying is that it is possible to still love a person internally even if you can't be with them because of their behavior/circumstances.

It's almost as if we're now going to try to put conditions on the unconditional in regards to internal emotion and external action.

heh


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



that_girl said:


> :iagree:
> 
> (sorry I'm not typing a lot....I'm just "agreeing" today because I am sick with the stomach flu!)


Ewww sorry to hear, hope you feel better soon.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I can hate your actions, behaviors, and words. But still love the person inside.

I believe that if you can fall out of love, you did NOT truly love to start with.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



tacoma said:


> I love my wife.
> 
> If she were to break my boundary of fidelity in our marriage I would still love her though I would divorce her.
> 
> ...


How would you rationalize your turn from love to (un)love in both scenarios? I'm not saying that you should still have the same interactions with your corpse eating daughter and your cheating wife but how can you let go of all the rest of your lives with them and turn love into indifference (which is actually the opposite of love). I would choose to still recognize that I was not indifferent, that I was feeling many things and that what I loved about both still had a place in my heart.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unconditional love, like unicorns, exist only in fiction literature and in the minds of adolescent girls. Neither are found in the real world.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> ...Can you not recognize the parts of a person you love even if there are behaviors or parts of them you don't like?


 Oh my goodness, absolutely. Trenton , if you knew me personally , you would never have to ask this , I think I am being misunderstood here. I am the type of person who has so little of a problem with some of my friends fautls, others think I am crazy to remain friends with them! Some of my girlfriends have these battles back and forth, I am the only one who steadfastly remains friends with them all while they are at odds with one another--over what I consider mindless petty nothingness. Always so interesting to have them both call me & yak about the other while I defend them both to some degree. No, people's little faults are not any bother to me at all. I am VERY understanding, very forgiving. 

When I mentioned my Aunt, these are bigger things, she has been put in jail before, I have been called into court for her, I had to get unlisted phone #. Very different animal. 



> We do choose how we deal and feel about things, we all do. We can choose to judge and feel disgusted and cast the person out of our lives. I won't fault anyone who wants to do this and yes, we all judge, just differently.


 Thank you for admitting we all judge, I notice some who can not admit this, I do not buy that. You are not intune with yourself to say you never judge anything. The fact we make any descions at all means we are judging something. Ok, a choice. I can buy that, but if we are loving by a choice, I still feel the recipient should KNOW we love them, feel that love from us at least sometimes. Parents -children likely do. BUt friends we no longer see. I doubt it. 



> I choose to continue to love, not be taken advantage of, but continue to love.


 If this was me, and it was someone other than my kids or immediate family , lets say a friend I didn't care to continue a relationship with.... I would replace "*continue to love*" with "*Forgive*" -not use the term love...not if I banished her from my life with no intention of letting her back in anyway. ....
If I had to kick her out, I obvioulsy had to forgive her for something , some harm she did. I would not use the term LOVE, that is about tender feelings, a closeness, a wanting to be with them. If I used the term love, I would ultimately be wanting them BACK in my life, a closeness again, and be moving towards more of a reconciliation, or for them to get HELP so they can be back in my life -I would have to have some ongoing interaction with them -for me to use the term LOVE. 



> For me, my connections to others are very important. If someone wants to connect with me I am open to that connection regardless of past actions or choices. I hear from my husband all the time that this places me in dangerous situations but for me the alternative makes me miserable. I believe people can change for the good as much as they can change for the bad.


 I am a little like you but I must admit.... if someone has a criminal record-or is heading that direction, into drugs, etc , NO, I want no connection nor friendship. Not worth the risk to me or my family. I don't care how poor someone is, if they are rejected by others, not popular, means little to me. But past history -this speaks to me. 

I also love connection with people. I love communication, I love to help the struggling , give them encouragement, Yes, people can change, make a better life for themselves. It is good we have others like you, It is not my gift though.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Trenton said:


> How would you rationalize your turn from love to (un)love in both scenarios? I'm not saying that you should still have the same interactions with your corpse eating daughter and your cheating wife but how can you let go of all the rest of your lives with them and turn love into indifference (which is actually the opposite of love). I would choose to still recognize that I was not indifferent, that I was feeling many things and that what I loved about both still had a place in my heart.


I wouldn't exactly call it indifference. Its just the realization that no matter how much you love someone, you can't stop them from making terrible choices. You can still love them yet at the same time accept that they still make their own choices, good or bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



marksaysay said:


> I wouldn't exactly call it indifference. Its just the realization that no matter how much you love someone, you can't stop them from making terrible choices. You can still love them yet at the same time accept that they still make their own choices, good or bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally agree


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh my goodness, absolutely. Trenton , if you knew me personally , you would never have to ask this , I think I am being misunderstood here. I am the type of person who has so little of a problem with some of my friends fautls, others think I am crazy to remain friends with them! Some of my girlfriends have these battles back and forth, I am the only one who steadfastly remains friends with them all while they are at odds with one another--over what I consider mindless petty nothingness. Always so interesting to have them both call me & yak about the other while I defend them both to some degree. No, people's little faults are not any bother to me at all. I am VERY understanding, very forgiving.
> 
> When I mentioned my Aunt, these are bigger things, she has been put in jail before, I have been called into court for her, I had to get unlisted phone #. Very different animal.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why the term "judge" has such a bad wrap. I think we need to judge the world around us, including people. It's whether or not we're open to changing our judgement where difficulties arise because if we can't than we can't forgive and we can't ask for forgiveness either. We're trapped. Maybe the bad connotation of the word comes from those who can't change judgement rather than judging itself.

It seems we feel similarly, we just choose different words to explain how we feel. You choose the word forgive and I choose the term continue to love. That doesn't mean I choose to take action on this love but it still exists and I recognize it for what it feels like to me. I'm not that concerned as to how others recognize it because I can only truly know how I feel and express that. Even the word love will be felt and expressed differently by all of us.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I had this very conversation with my 77 year old aunt the other day. Not even sure how we got on the subject, but this is what she told me on the matter. 

She said she loves conditionally. Here is what she said and gave examples of. She was taught to love conditionally based on "conditions" of course. 

"I can love you as long as you do not beat me."
"I can love you as long as you're not doing drugs."
"I love you as long as you're not hurting others or animals etc."
"I can love you as long as you're not out cheating."


Basically what it boils down to is, she will love you as long as you fit HER mold as to what she feels she can love you for. If you cheat, abuse hurt others including animals etc, then you're no longer apart of her life. That was her rule or the way she lived her life. I can't say if its right or wrong, guess it worked for her. 

That was what conditional love was to her. Unconditional wasn't something she knew of.


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Sometimes you can still feel love for someone who has done awful things, but I think the real issue is, can you LIVE with them? I can live with my husband years after an affair, but could I were he a serial cheater? I highly doubt it.

Lyn


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I have loved people who betray me and I would rid of them from my life, but I still love them. We just can't be together. There are many forms of love and somewhere along the line, the love turned into something else.

Hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I think there is some division on whether LOVE is a Feeling vs. a Choice. I feel it is both. Either one requires some ACTION to demonstrate.

In the down times (when we are hurt, wounded) we have to make it a conscious *CHOICE *to love - despite how we feel -this , along with giving actions , should lead to those "reconnecting emotions" - if reconciliation happens with the other.......in the good times, the feelings just flow like water. Actions come easy, they are a joy to give, even a compulsion to please the other. 

I think I have uncovered my aversion to this unconditional love thing .......

It is always referred to as a "CHOICE". For me, this is very similar to the rules of "*Forgiveness*" -which is always more about the mental "peace" of the giver over any REAL feelings towards the recipient. And personally, I like having FEELINGS associated with Love- when somebody loves me, or I Love someone. When I love deeply, I feel deeply -even if is anger at the time, I feel SOMETHING, some wild emotion. And have to work to overcome it -YES -with this person I love. I feel a connection there, an admiration, an affection, a trust, security, an inviting feeling from this person , an acceptance, or I want to beat the living daylights out of them cause I am hurt, but something! 

....Then we have these cases..... I have talked to some people who stay married just for the Vows, the commitment, they have lost all desire for their spouse -been this way for years, they speak about this "*choice*" to stay... I find it rather cold. In fact, what they have done is become "NUMB" somehow. Even depressed. They wanted the feelings to return, they had faith they would- because they are honoring those vows. Even though they have chosen to remain -living on a "choice" , for some the feelings never get re-captured. How sad is this. So they may call it "unconditional" .....but still , for some, it is devoid of "feeling".

I wouldn't want this kind of love. Give me anger, give me madness, give me passion but when it is all reduced to a "Choice" - without feelings -- Seems hollow to me. 

I liked these articles. 

Is Love a Feeling or a Choice? « [- Grasping the Cross -]

What Is Love?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



that_girl said:


> I have loved people who betray me and I would rid of them from my life, but I still love them.


 They betray you , you banish them but still amazingly *LOVE *them. (I think "*forgive them*" would make more sense). 

What do you love....the memories? I can buy that. What action is your love giving them, or you don't feel that is necessary?

I see absolutely NO point in this type of love , other than it makes us LOOK GOOD to say these things. 


Again the definition of Love -a different dictionary: 


> Definition of LOVE
> (1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child>
> (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers
> (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates> b : an assurance of affection <give her my love>
> ...


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Do you have any idea who rediculous this sounds TO ME.


Doesn't matter how ridiculous it might sound to you though. Its how that person feels and sees it, just like you feel the way you do on the matter. 

Part of the question in the title was, "What does it mean to you." they told you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Do you have any idea who rediculous this sounds TO ME. They betray you , you banish them but still amaingly *LOVE *them. (I think "*forgive them*" would make more sense).
> 
> What do you love....the memories? I can buy that. What action is your love giving them, or you don't feel that is necessary?
> 
> I see absolutely NO point in this type of love , other than it makes us LOOK GOOD to say these things.



Wow. Dont' ask for opinions if you don't want them.

Like I said, not everyone could "get it" how I get it. No one is perfect. what do I love? That's not up to me to tell you, seeing as my thoughts are soooo ridiculous to you.

But I'm not a hater of love  there's all sorts of love. People f*ck up. Forgive? Sure. Love? sure. Sorry you haven't experienced it. Doesn't make me ridiculous 

I don't care how i look to people. Geez. I don't love EVERYONE the same. There are just certain people in my life that I love, despite what we've been through. deal.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

In romantic love, no I do not believe in unconditional love.

Love for one's children is mostly unconditional--but that makes it conditional.

If my kid did as my cousin has to his mother, stolen huge amounts of money and ruined her life, been in prison for being a rapist--then I think my unconditional love would fizzle out for him.

I totally get why my aunt has sliced that monster out of her life.

Her two other sons are nothing like him. She loves them dearly.

I use that extreme as an illustration that even a mother's love has conditions.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

It all depends on how you define unconditional. Some people are not capable no matter how it is define. For someone I love, I would do anything and expect nothing. That is unconditional to me. But that assumes you love the person. Someone else can take that choice away from you by their own actions. You didnt put a condition on it, someone else forced the change.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



michzz said:


> In romantic love, no I do not believe in unconditional love.
> 
> Love for one's children is mostly unconditional--but that makes it conditional.
> 
> ...


I doubt she doesn't love her son even though he's done those things.

But toxic people have to learn they are not welcomed. I would do the same, if my child was to get on drugs, etc. My brother was a coke addict by age 18. Did I hate him? No. I love that boy--- I just won't talk to him until he's sober. He chose that, not me.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

My wife and I love each no matter what and it's a pain in the a$$ -.-


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

That girl, I DO want the opionions -honestly. And I thank you for yours. I just can't get past the definitions is all, it just doesn't fit. Love wants to BE with the other , admires the other, sups with the other. 

But you are not alone....many many on this thread feel as you, probably more than those who don't !! I am in the minority- clearly. I invite the argument. I should not have jumped in a sarcastic manner. My fault, I apologize for that. See how imperfect I am 

I just see it as "watered" down somehow. 

I would seriously rather a friend feel "angry emotions" for me if she banished me (even if I deserved it) , it would seem more REAL to me somehow. If she already feels LOVE when she has banished me, what motivation is there to make it right, and truly reconcile someday? There wouldn't be any, as I am already loved - but still not wanted in her life . At least if she was still angry -she may want to rid herself of this, reach out to me , us work it out & maybe be friends again. 

Would you still call these people friends ? 

I was just on the phone with an old friend (I will call her Ann) .... who tried very very hard to make it right with another friend (I will call her Brenda). .......Ann was the rejected one. In my opionion her actions were not worthy of being banished, I found it very petty, I feel Brenda was much too unforgiving, and I know ANN LOVED her dearly, considered Brenda the BEST friend she ever had in her life. Even ANN would take her back in a heart beat, but she told me..... she can't say she still "loves" Brenda, after all these years. Since Brenda has continually rejected her reaching out. 


I would find it very curious if Brenda -who won't take ANN back into her life would say she still LOVES her. If so, I would find that very screwed up. BUt I have not talked to Brenda yet. I think I will ask this question though, just for curiosity. 

You are right, none of us knows each others heart. I would put some weight on the actions though, like if we still send these friends birthday cards, christmas cards, something to show our Love & caring is active.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Hm, I think you are confusing romantic love, affectionate love, etc with how I can feel Love.

One can love another without being in their life. Sounds strange, but can happen. Life is a crazy ride and people come and go...

It's those people whom you can pick up a conversation after years of not seeing each other and it's like no time has passed.  

It's hard to explain. lol I usually don't even try.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Bollocks.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I just found this on the net ....... 




> *15 Different Kinds of Love*:
> 
> *Infatuation*- loving feelings towards a love object that are largely based upon fantasy and idealization (instead of experience). Often when partners get to know each other, infatuation diminishes.
> 
> ...


Now that defintion of *Unconditional love *denotes an action of affection and caring that is so strong -it is felt consistently. 

That would make sense to me. But I surely do not feel most of us feel that way about these people we don't want in our life . Family maybe, because ultimately we want the best for them, to get their act together, we put up our own boundaries, but we genuinelly want to reconnect with them, be close again -after all they are blood. Like That girls Brother, she does not want to cut him off forever, she wants him better so he can be in her life again, she likely still sends him cards for his birthday or some actions are taking place to show she cares, so he knows she is still ROOTING for him. 

I took the time to call that other friend of mine (I called her Brenda) .... and asked how she felt about Ann today (friend she dumped, felt she betrayed her) and BINGO.... she admitted the "love " word- cause even she felt they were like BEST friends at one time.... now remember, this is the friend who wants NOTHING to do with ANN. ANN would openly invite her back anytime & had tried consistently to reconnect. 

We talked a good 15 minutes..... she is still adamant she does not want Ann in her life , she wouldn't send her any cards cause that would be an invitation for her to come back. She changed her thinking on this as we talked, she agreed, if it was love, there should be some kind of ACTION going on to lead to reconciliation. And she has no such desire, said she never will. She doesn't wish her any harm, she LOVES the memories they shared, but yes, the love has withered, it has changed, not there now. 

If there was any love it was what she called a "christlike" thing -likely that "brotherly love" -cause she is another human being. She doesn't wish her any harm. But has no feelings towards her anymore either.

...So if we must call these things "love" -wouldn't it be more geared towards the "*Spiritual /Divine*" or the "*BROTHERLY*" type love , not so much the Unconditional , or even Friendship type - which would be called "*Companionate Love*"...where we have feelings of warmth and want to spend time with them. 

Yes, I am getting technical I know. I think I want to buy a book on the many types of love now. It is a fasinating subject.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I love my children unconditionally. No matter what they do, I will always care about them and want the best for them. I think if you don't love your kids unconditionally, that is really sad for both the kids and for the parents. 

This is not the same thing as allowing your kids to treat you poorly. You can love someone and not choose to have a relationship with them because it is toxic or harmful. But you can still love that person and want what is best for them. That is the unconditional part....that no matter what they can give to you in return, you still love them.

My husband and I have seen our love for each other grow and deepen to where I truly care about him and love him BEYOND what he can give me or do for me. I would not say it is totally unconditional YET, but I think in time it will be. It is a strange and new feeling to be able to feel that way about someone.

I think people have varying degrees of ability to RECEIVE love as well as give love. I think that many of the people who complain about their partner not loving them or giving them enough are also people who have a hard time receiving love. They may want it but not be ready to accept it fully. But that's a bit off topic, I think.

One final thought - I think people who learn how to love themselves unconditionally have the best chance of being able to love other people unconditionally, especially their kids.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



> This is not the same thing as allowing your kids to treat you poorly. You can love someone and not choose to have a relationship with them because it is toxic or harmful. But you can still love that person and want what is best for them. That is the unconditional part....that no matter what they can give to you in return, you still love them.


Yes. When my husband moved out for those 3 months, even though we went through some crap and things happened, I still wanted the best for him. It surprised even myself. I spoke not one bad word about him because I didn't feel bad towards him.

I have a few other friends that I love this way. It's just how it is.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



2yearsince said:


> For someone I love, I would do anything and expect nothing.


Really? Even if that person abuses you, emotionally wrecks you, disrespects you as a person?

You don`t have expectations of being respected and treated fairly by the people you love?



> But that assumes you love the person. Someone else can take that choice away from you by their own actions. You didnt put a condition on it, someone else forced the change.


The only way that person could take that choice away is by failing to meet a condition you had whether you were aware of it at the time or not.

That is conditional love.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Any man who believes in unconditional love should just quit his job, sponge off his wife, daily beat her, call her ugly names, fool around on her, and see how long it takes for her to unconditionally show him the door. Matter-of-fact, just pick a couple of those actions and see how quickly you get your walking papers.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

unbelievable, why do you think that if you love someone you will tolerate anything they do to you?

"Love is the substance of all life. Everything is connected in love, absolutely everything."
Julia Cameron, in Blessings : Prayers and Declarations for a Heartful Life (1998)


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

that_girl...we have similar hair!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I admit that I'm very jaded when it comes to my understanding of love. To see a loving parent, both parents actually, suddenly begin to treat me as if I was a nuisance as a kid, abandoning me, taught me that the source of our love is first in loving ourself.

I think that many people, low empathy ones especially, greatly underestimate how much of their love is driven by fear. For instance, if a guy wants the security of a marriage, fear of losing this is one of the drivers for treating a spouse like he does. This may be secondary to the feeling of love, or the active type of love, but I think its there nevertheless. When a guy gets on his knees to beg a cheating spouse to come back, he'll call it love, but what portion of that is just the basic wish not to loose some of the great benefits of the spouse's former character in our lives? 

I'm just saying that I really tried to focus on that part of love in my relationship that is a choice, and generated by positive feelings of love toward my wife and others. To me, to act on this love would keep me from becoming sedentary about the relationship, as opposed to those who just stay with someone because they fear losing a relationship. To say its a choice is only going half way. Love is what we do positively, and think positively about the other person. My childhood made me very aware that love is an active process.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> unbelievable, why do you think that if you love someone you will tolerate anything they do to you?
> 
> "Love is the substance of all life. Everything is connected in love, absolutely everything."
> Julia Cameron, in Blessings : Prayers and Declarations for a Heartful Life (1998)


I absolutely don't believe that. I believe that love is a choice and the same mind capable of conceiving love is also capable of putting a bullet between your eyes. Our own choices and behaviors determine how others will perceive and treat us. There is no free ride.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I'm not an expert so correct me if I'm wrong, but my reading of the Bible indicates to me that only married men who are saved are required to act with unconditional love toward their wives. Saved wives are told to act with respect toward their husbands

I see many posters expressing commitment to their children that is superior to their commitment to their spouses. I also see a lot of this in real life (my wife buys into it among many others) and I wonder why we don't commit to our children to raise them in a home with both parents present? There seems to be a fairly endless number of justifications for leaving your spouse for the sake of your children
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Halien said:


> I admit that I'm very jaded when it comes to my understanding of love. To see a loving parent, both parents actually, suddenly begin to treat me as if I was a nuisance as a kid, abandoning me, taught me that the source of our love is first in loving ourself.
> 
> I think that many people, low empathy ones especially, greatly underestimate how much of their love is driven by fear. For instance, if a guy wants the security of a marriage, fear of losing this is one of the drivers for treating a spouse like he does. This may be secondary to the feeling of love, or the active type of love, but I think its there nevertheless. When a guy gets on his knees to beg a cheating spouse to come back, he'll call it love, but what portion of that is just the basic wish not to loose some of the great benefits of the spouse's former character in our lives?
> 
> I'm just saying that I really tried to focus on that part of love in my relationship that is a choice, and generated by positive feelings of love toward my wife and others. To me, to act on this love would keep me from becoming sedentary about the relationship, as opposed to those who just stay with someone because they fear losing a relationship. To say its a choice is only going half way. Love is what we do positively, and think positively about the other person. My childhood made me very aware that love is an active process.


I think people limit their ability to love for protection's sake. If we allow ourselves to love everyone based solely on the fact that they are human or something that is a part of our world, doing this does limit our own personal ability to make choices that are good for us. I'm having trouble articulating this but I think it is the cause of most of our problems.

An example is the idea that "business is business". We take love out of this equation because there's no room for it if we want to make choices that benefit the business or ourselves but may intentionally or unintentionally hurt another. The same holds true when we decide to dislike a nation/race/group of people. We don't allow ourselves to see them for the human beings they are because it is easier not to love and to disregard or cast blame.

I'm not talking about accepting maltreatment or abuse or kissing someone's bum even after they beat you silly. I'm talking about accepting that we are all human beings (and I feel this way for all things). It doesn't mean I am perfect or that I don't make bad choices that go against loving or even selfish decisions that provide gains for myself or my family. It means I always have a moral struggle and try to make the right choices and can admit when I don't.

So I don't see unconditional love as simple as treating your spouse fairly or accepting if your spouse is a complete jerk to you. I see it more as an openness to the world around us.

Yeah, I'm going to go hug a tree now.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



unbelievable said:


> I absolutely don't believe that. I believe that love is a choice and the same mind capable of conceiving love is also capable of putting a bullet between your eyes. Our own choices and behaviors determine how others will perceive and treat us. There is no free ride.


I haven't had your experiences and I can appreciate that. I don't believe that there is a free ride and I do believe we should be held accountable for our actions, but I don't think this has anything to do with unconditional love either.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unless someone is a sociopath, before they can do something utterly reprehensible, they must find or create some moral justification for the action. Slaughtering Native Americans and stealing their land sounds pretty bad. Spreading Christianity to the "heathen" sounds moral. The quickest way for a responsible father to be transformed into a child molester or child abuser is for him to enter into divorce proceedings with the child's mother. Similarly, it's amazing how quickly a responsible mother is transformed into a crazy, irresponsible one...by a divorcing husband. We all have to justify our actions. The more henious our intended course of action, the more bizarre our justification.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



unbelievable said:


> Unless someone is a sociopath, before they can do something utterly reprehensible, they must find or create some moral justification for the action. Slaughtering Native Americans and stealing their land sounds pretty bad. Spreading Christianity to the "heathen" sounds moral. The quickest way for a responsible father to be transformed into a child molester or child abuser is for him to enter into divorce proceedings with the child's mother. Similarly, it's amazing how quickly a responsible mother is transformed into a crazy, irresponsible one...by a divorcing husband. We all have to justify our actions. The more henious our intended course of action, the more bizarre our justification.


Can't disagree with you here because I agree with you 100 percent. I think what I'm saying is that my underlying love for things/people/the world is my moral compass and I use it often to check that I'm making the right decisions.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Unless someone is a sociopath ...


Is a personality disorder like npd or bpd considered sociopath?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Triumph (Oct 8, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> I think what I'm saying is that my underlying love for things/people/the world is my moral compass


I truly enjoy this quote.

I maintain that my love is 100% conditional, but based on the quote, I can accept that yours is unconditional.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Triumph said:


> I truly enjoy this quote.
> 
> I maintain that my love is 100% conditional, but based on the quote, I can accept that yours is unconditional.


Absolutely!!! Because I love, I have a personal obligation to treat others with dignity, respect, etc. Others' love for me also places an obligation on me to treat them with kindness, etc. Love doesn't free me but constrains me because it would be wrong to repay evil for good. 
I realize I am ultimately responsible for the way others treat me. I either cause them to treat me in particular ways or I tolerate their treatment. If I believed love was unconditional, then I'd feel free to do whatever to whomever, expecting endless forgiveness and toleration. That would be highly presumptious and arrogant in the extreme.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



unbelievable said:


> Absolutely!!! Because I love, I have a personal obligation to treat others with dignity, respect, etc. Others' love for me also places an obligation on me to treat them with kindness, etc. Love doesn't free me but constrains me because it would be wrong to repay evil for good.
> I realize I am ultimately responsible for the way others treat me. I either cause them to treat me in particular ways or I tolerate their treatment. If I believed love was unconditional, then I'd feel free to do whatever to whomever, expecting endless forgiveness and toleration. That would be highly presumptious and arrogant in the extreme.


This may be so for some but for me it is not my obligation, it is a source of joy.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



AgentD said:


> I had this very conversation with my 77 year old aunt the other day. Not even sure how we got on the subject, but this is what she told me on the matter.
> 
> She said she loves conditionally. Here is what she said and gave examples of. She was taught to love conditionally based on "conditions" of course.
> 
> ...


Wow! :scratchhead: Thats pretty sad actually.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> I think people limit their ability to love for protection's sake. If we allow ourselves to love everyone based solely on the fact that they are human or something that is a part of our world, doing this does limit our own personal ability to make choices that are good for us. I'm having trouble articulating this but I think it is the cause of most of our problems.
> 
> An example is the idea that "business is business". We take love out of this equation because there's no room for it if we want to make choices that benefit the business or ourselves but may intentionally or unintentionally hurt another. The same holds true when we decide to dislike a nation/race/group of people. We don't allow ourselves to see them for the human beings they are because it is easier not to love and to disregard or cast blame.
> 
> ...


I wasn't really trying to say that I am guarded in who I love. Just saying that the background makes me more aware of the fact that I'm not actively loving my wife, then there is little difference between this and just not loving her. 

People point out that the bible says to love your spouse unconditionally. To me, that should be the goal, but not the excuse for accepting cheating or abuse. Jesus said for men to love their wives like he loved the Church. Why did he say that he wanted to spew the church of Laodicia out of his mouth, then, when he was talking about how they had pulled themselves away from the faith? To me, marriage is a covenant that has to be nourished, but it is possible for the spouse to demonstrate that they no longer live by that marriage covenant. I just wouldn't have it within myself to continue on in such a relationship, given what I try to put into it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Halien said:


> I just wouldn't have it within myself to continue on in such a relationship, given what I try to put into it.


I understand your point. But real love, the way the bible explains it, is doing things without expecting anything in return. It is so contrary to the worlds way of loving someone. We are all tuned in, it would seem, to WIIFM, What's In It For Me. That's not Gods love. 

Concerning Laodacea, they were lukewarm. They wanted to live in the world and for God at.the same time. God wanted them to make up their mind but he never stopped loving them. He wanted them to know when they chose to turn to him wholeheartedly, he would still be there. They were free to live their lives. He did not condone or support them when they chose to live worldly but he did still love them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Wow! :scratchhead: Thats pretty sad actually.


Sounds pretty sensible to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Halien said:


> I wasn't really trying to say that I am guarded in who I love. Just saying that the background makes me more aware of the fact that I'm not actively loving my wife, then there is little difference between this and just not loving her.
> 
> People point out that the bible says to love your spouse unconditionally. To me, that should be the goal, but not the excuse for accepting cheating or abuse. Jesus said for men to love their wives like he loved the Church. Why did he say that he wanted to spew the church of Laodicia out of his mouth, then, when he was talking about how they had pulled themselves away from the faith? To me, marriage is a covenant that has to be nourished, but it is possible for the spouse to demonstrate that they no longer live by that marriage covenant. I just wouldn't have it within myself to continue on in such a relationship, given what I try to put into it.


I was raised without religion in any way, shape or form so I can't relate to that. 

In regards to marriage and a relationship with your spouse, yeah...they have to feel loved. Men and women have to somehow find balance to find happiness and both of their needs have to be met. In today's world marriage is a choice (which I think is a good thing) which makes us have to work all the more harder to understand one another. 

I'm talking in a little broader terms here though and I'm getting that this is where I'm being misunderstood.

When you're talking unconditional love in regards to placing conditions that have to be met in order for you to stay in the person's life...obviously all love will be conditional, but when you talk about our ability to love unconditionally even if a person is not in our life, that's the difference.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> On another thread & from time to time -- this subject comes up, half of the responsers DO believe in it , likely half do not. I am not a proponent of *Unconditional Love*. If I claimed I was, I would feel like a liar.... if my husband started treating me like dirt, hurting our children, causing our life to be a living nightmare, became an physical abuser, was having affairs behind my back, whatever, the love would dry up like a withered stick and I would want out.
> 
> I DO have conditions to my loving & giving my heart to another. I TRUST to be treated with love, honor, respect, honesty & Faithfulness - for the most part . Of coarse we have BAD days & get out of hand and we say & do things to hurt each other (I am not talking about little stuff like this, hair nail issues as one poster put it, for me, I count that as NOTHING in the scheme of living) --but the bigger issues --yeah, I have conditions.
> 
> And I fully expect, from MY end - to give love, honor, respect, honesty, faithfulness, having the best intentions for my spouse --if I want to receive his love in return.


I'm with you on this. I think love is unconditional to the point it shouldn't be thrown away for petty things, but there are always deal breakers.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Trenton said:


> I was raised without religion in any way, shape or form so I can't relate to that.
> .


I was raised without religion too, unless you take into account the native american spiritualism of my grandmother, or the occultic beliefs of my step dad. Most of what I've learned from the western religious view of unconditional love is kind've from the outside looking in, since I converted to the faith as an adult. My first pastor was like that also. He was Comanchee. There were a lot of teachings about how beautiful marriage is supposed to be, but many just turn it into a list of things we shouldn't do, or should put up with. Don't hear alot about deep, unconditional love until a spouse betrays the marriage vows. 

I wasn't trying to imply that love should be conditional. But for me, staying married could be, under certain circumstances.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I have unconditional love for my children. But the full blown in love and love I have for my wife is not completely unconditional. It is based on mutual love. I suppose if we were to break up I would always have some form of love for her but in general, no, love for a spouse for me is conditional. Now would I lay down my life right now to save my wife. Absolutely.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Entropy3000 said:


> I have unconditional love for my children. But the full blown in love and love I have for my wife is not completely unconditional. It is based on mutual love. I suppose if we were to break up I would always have some form of love for her but in general, no, love for a spouse for me is conditional. Now would I lay down my life right now to save my wife. Absolutely.


I see this reply as very balanced .....as you always seem to be Entropy3000, thank you for chiming in ! 

You too Southbound, I know you are another Great Guy with very sound morals , and it's not all about "What's in it for me" at every turn, just cause we have some admitted deal breakers.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



tacoma said:


> Sounds pretty sensible to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, sensible to you sad to me. Its different for different people.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



trey69 said:


> Yep, sensible to you sad to me. Its different for different people.


I think so long as we marry someone who is completely accepting of how we view life & love ...without insinuating we are incapable of REAL love somehow.... how very important it is. 

Those comments were on someone's Grandmother - nothing was spoke of her marriage....was it So-so, tumultuous- she ignored him, threw him out cause he hurt animals (didn't sound like it-maybe he was an animal lover!) or was it a beautiful love story others would have envied? ....

If so, in reality - nothing at all to be sad about it.


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## MidwestDave (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I think that the romantic ideal of "love" that we have come to know here in the West is far too limited. True love is neither conditional or unconditional, it exists beyond space and time, and transcends whatever daily travails may be cast against it. It is far, far more than we believe it to be, when we first stumble into it.

Yes, you must protect yourself, and yes, you must get on with your life if someone has hurt you. But for the ones you have bonded with in this lifetime, love will continue, so deep within you that that you may not even realize that it is there. 

One day, at the end of this life, we will stand at the threshold - maybe it is only then that we can a take measure of our love.

Sorry about the philosophical meanderings, it has been a long day.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

It took me 42 years to discover my love for my stbxw was not unconditional. There came a point when I’d had enough of her abuse and told her of my conditions to continue to love her. She didn’t accept my conditions, so I withdrew my love from her.

A year after we’d separated my younger son came to stay with me for a few weeks. In that time by snooping I discovered just what he thought of me and just how much over the years he’d been stabbing me in the back as far as my wife, his mother, was concerned. I didn’t even attempt to give him any conditions for me to continue loving him. I told him I’d never try and get on a good footing with him again and that I’ll never contact him again.

For me my romantic and fatherly love is most definitely a verb. My love for my wife and my love for my younger son was demonstrated by the things I did for them. And part of my love for them was forgiving them for the various times they hurt me. I will never again do anything for my wife or younger son as they didn’t appreciate what I did for them and all I got in return was pain. I will continue to love my older son and prey that I never have to make my love for him conditional.

I went to great lengths to treat my two sons the same, no favouritism. One loves me, appreciates the things I’ve done for him as his father and he plans to spend time with me, introducing me to his friends and doing activities together. The other detests me, doesn’t like spending time with and has absolutely no appreciation of the things I did for him even though he often needed a roof over his head and survival money from me.

I think we make our love conditional when the one we’ve been loving unconditionally abuses our love to the extent that we make our love conditional to stop the abuse continuing.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Those comments were on someone's Grandmother - nothing was spoke of her marriage....was it So-so, tumultuious- she ignored him, threw him out cause he hurt animals (didn't sound like it-maybe he was an animal lover!) or was it a beautiful love story others would have envied? ....
> 
> If so, in reality - nothing at all to be sad about it.


That was actually me who posted that about my 77 year old aunt. 

I have never met a more sad/bitter person actually. Her life was based on the "conditions" for people to meet in order for her to love them. 

I'm not real sure why she was sad/bitter. The conditions in which she gave me the examples of that I listed here, no one to my knowledge broke those conditions. She didn't have to not love someone because of cheating or abuse etc, or anything else. 

She came across to me as someone who didn't or couldn't "fully love" and maybe it was because of those conditions that not only she placed on others but herself as well. I'm only speaking of how I saw her growing up though.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



MidwestDave said:


> I think that the romantic ideal of "love" that we have come to know here in the West is far too limited. True love is neither conditional or unconditional, it exists beyond space and time, and transcends whatever daily travails may be cast against it. It is far, far more than we believe it to be, when we first stumble into it.
> 
> Yes, you must protect yourself, and yes, you must get on with your life if someone has hurt you. But for the ones you have bonded with in this lifetime, love will continue, so deep within you that that you may not even realize that it is there.
> 
> ...


This is in line with my thoughts. I think our culture promotes the most selfish, limited kind of love there is, especially when it comes to the romantic type.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Laurae1967 said:


> This is in line with my thoughts. I think our culture promotes the most selfish, limited kind of love there is, especially when it comes to the romantic type.


I totally agree!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

IMO,

If you're no longer with someone then there was a condition for them to continue having your love. Love is not feeling, love is action. When you love someone you will give your last to see that they are OK. A child that continues to go to jail will eventually stop getting bail money. That love is conditional. Showing concern is not love.Once they start behaving responsibly that love will return. A woman will only allow a man she loves to continue to strike her and still give him her affection. She won't allow this once that love is gone. A man will only allow the women he loves to continually disrespect him. This will not happen once that love is gone.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



MidwestDave said:


> I think that the romantic ideal of "love" that we have come to know here in the West is far too limited. True love is neither conditional or unconditional, it exists beyond space and time, and transcends whatever daily travails may be cast against it. It is far, far more than we believe it to be, when we first stumble into it.
> 
> Yes, you must protect yourself, and yes, you must get on with your life if someone has hurt you. But for the ones you have bonded with in this lifetime, love will continue, so deep within you that that you may not even realize that it is there.
> 
> ...


It is very philosophical, very beautiful, but very wrong IMO. Its what people hope love is. We aspire to that but it does not work like that in reality.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Kobo said:


> It is very philosophical, very beautiful, but very wrong IMO. Its what people hope love is. We aspire to that but it does not work like that in reality.


Oh yes it does. It may be extremely rare but it does exist. I'm an example of it. My wife is in an adulterous relationship. We are in the midst of a divorce she initiated after my discovery. We are going through custody batrle but yet I can say with all certainty that I STILL LOVE MY WIFE. Its not popular or too common anymore but I still love her whether she deserves it or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



Kobo said:


> IMO,
> 
> If you're no longer with someone then there was a condition for them to continue having your love. Love is not feeling, love is action. When you love someone you will give your last to see that they are OK. A child that continues to go to jail will eventually stop getting bail money. That love is conditional. Showing concern is not love.


This is how I feel, there has to be an ACTION to show this ongoing love, words, that is just too easy. Actions reveal the heart. Words are a dime a dozen. We need to show that person we are still there for them, rooting for them, even if they are not in your life, they will KNOW you haven't forgotten them by the things that we DO, we miss them......we love them.

Speaking of giving $$ to someone in jail/prison, I have SEEN unconditional love in Action --from a very very unlikely source... he was infact a DRUNKARD, he was my step Father, and he used to take people in off the streets, let them live with him... prostitutes, bums, sometimes they would have a house full, he once had a man live with him who had been in jail/prison (never met him--my own father would have been horrified if I did !), once he beat the H*** out of my step father, my MOm came home to him, face all bloody dripping off her husbands face, and he told her NOT to be upset, TO FORGIVE HIM, he was begging MY mother to forgive his attacker! ......and when this man went to prison later down the road , can't remember the full story now, my step father (now gone) sent that man $$ every single week until his death. There was nothing he got in return. 

I have ALWAYS been MOVED, deeply touched - by the life & things my step father did for the lowliest of men. I tear up every time I hear that old 60's tune "He's my Brother"- cause he truly looked at others with that type of heart.


I will share a Poem my MOther wrote of him called "He's my Brother"....and that amazing love ...that she witnessed in her lifetime living with this man.



> God said we are brothers
> and God's word is true
> But we call God a Liar
> By the things that we do
> ...


 Anyway, he did die, but the memories of the things he has done for other human beings --will forever TOUCH me, My mother had a hard hard hard life , but I have yet to meet another soul in all of my years that had THAT kind of love for complete strangers - the love of one lowly drunkard...and if our love does not have "action"...I just could not label it "unconditional". It doesn't work for me personally.

DO I love as deep as my step Father. NO, I do not. He deserves a bigger crown in Heaven. Funny how many arguements I have had with the religious about HIS soul. IF he ain't there, there is not such thing as LOVE for our fellow man. That was just 1 of many many stories.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



marksaysay said:


> Oh yes it does. It may be extremely rare but it does exist. I'm an example of it. My wife is in an adulterous relationship. We are in the midst of a divorce she initiated after my discovery. We are going through custody batrle but yet I can say with all certainty that I STILL LOVE MY WIFE. Its not popular or too common anymore but I still love her whether she deserves it or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you think you`ll still love your wife 5 years after the divorce is final and you`ve not seen her in most of that time?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



MidwestDave said:


> I think that the romantic ideal of "love" that we have come to know here in the West is far too limited. True love is neither conditional or unconditional, it exists beyond space and time, and transcends whatever daily travails may be cast against it. It is far, far more than we believe it to be, when we first stumble into it.
> 
> Yes, you must protect yourself, and yes, you must get on with your life if someone has hurt you. But for the ones you have bonded with in this lifetime, love will continue, so deep within you that that you may not even realize that it is there.
> 
> ...


 I very much enjoyed reading this & I FEEL the spirit in which this was written. I have to agree with MarkSaysay, maybe it is RARE, but IT exists. 

We very much CAN experience THIS in the here & now with these bonded souls -most especially our spouses, feeling that measure, how deep & vast it truly is -knowing how much that person MEANS to our very beings, if 2 hearts are so in tune with each other, laid open & vulnerable before the other, not fearing such expression. 

I may not consider myself an Unconditional Lover, but I have THIS with my husband..... maybe some would say I am just an emotional woman & he is more of an emotional man, but we could not even count the times we have shared moments that were so deep, so moving ..a thankfulness- that God has brought us together... I did pray for a guy like him months before he walked into my life & became the best friend I ever had... 

There are things he has said to me, just thinking on them brings me to tears... You know such moments, they help carry you through some of the more difficult times, Oh how easy to forgive & run to each other with open arms. 

It would be so sad to miss these opportunists for fear of not opening up to those we love . Don't wait until the end of our lives, get in touch with that love inside of you.... feel it now.... express it...... Life is short. 

Maybe some would argue, well, that is just emotion, I don't know, but what is life & living -without feeling.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Do you think you`ll still love your wife 5 years after the divorce is final and you`ve not seen her in most of that time?


Yes I do. Why? There was an exgirlfriend of mine, my first love, who decided to "move on". I was devastated but I moved on, went half way across the country, dated others, etc. We talked years later and she expressed that she'd been foolish and wished we could do it over again. If I had been where she was, I would've gave it a shot but I wasn't. Its similar yet different with my wife. I didn't marry that gf. I didn't vow to love, honor, etc. with her. She wasn't the mother of my child. If my wife were to express remorse and a willingness down the road, I honestly believe I would.

Real love doesn't go away. Even when the recipient of that love seems to walk away from it, its still there. It just waits for the next opportunity to express itself. Old flames get back together frequently for this reason. The love doesn't die, it just goes into hibernation awaiting the awakening. That's why NC is great for the BS. It allows the ws the freedom to do what they want while not allowing the ws to continue to stomp all over the He's love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## charlene (Jul 21, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unhealthy and unefficient. This kind of love is only worth towards children.


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## DoYouWoo (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

It's something we're encouraged to believe in thru movies and the media, leading most us to disappointment when we can't achieve it and find ourselves doubting our love at some point in a relationship. It's like seeing your relationship as a dogmatic religion, something you MUST believe in at all times and never doubt - I don't think that's feasible though - we all have doubts, some things our partners do are 'deal-breakers' and rightly so.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Choosing to love someone and believing in the relationship are not the same. When the relationship has deteriorated, love can still exist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



marksaysay said:


> Choosing to love someone and believing in the relationship are not the same. When the relationship has deteriorated, love can still exist.


 I know you still have HOPE though, this keeps your love alive. You often talk about her coming back to the Lord, and feel once she does this, she will also come back TO YOU. .... We can love & admire from a far, have faith for a lost love coming back to us for the next 25 yrs if we like... play this Bread tune over & over in our head lost without your love - YouTube ....Not that you are crying every day over her, but I am sure you can identify with the words in this song.....

.... but if that person (your soon to be ex) has found love with another, she FEELS she has found more compatabilty with another-that fits WHO SHE IS at her core -for whatever reason-happiness with another soul, I would think continuing to feel this way - what good /purpose does it serve anyone- even God for that matter. There is also a time for "letting go". 

BUt if it keeps you STUCK, waiting, hoping, praying daily, and nothing comes to pass -at the end of your life, on that threshold, can you honestly say you won't have any regrets -from picking yourself up and finding love with another --if she did. 

I suppose if she never moves on to another man, commits herself to marry again - there IS a measure of Hope there. But once she does, would you move on ?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I wouldn't try to hard to figure it all out. 

If you love unconditionally, fine. If you don't, fine.

Its whatever works for the person.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



trey69 said:


> I wouldn't try to hard to figure it all out.
> 
> If you love unconditionally, fine. If you don't, fine.
> 
> Its whatever works for the person.


at the end of the day......of coarse. It is just a discussion, I enjoy hearing others take on it, experiences. It helps me evaluate myself, my own motives I guess. I have changed my thinking in the past on things - I am open to new possibilities of coarse, these discussions shed light on many things, for instance.... the many varying forms of Love that exist in this life.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I know you still have HOPE though, this keeps your love alive. You often talk about her coming back to the Lord, and feel once she does this, she will also come back TO YOU. .... We can love & admire from a far, have faith for a lost love coming back to us for the next 25 yrs if we like... play this Bread tune over & over in our head lost without your love - YouTube ....Not that you are crying every day over her, but I am sure you can identify with the words in this song.....
> 
> .... but if that person (your soon to be ex) has found love with another, she FEELS she has found more compatabilty with another-that fits WHO SHE IS at her core -for whatever reason-happiness with another soul, I would think continuing to feel this way - what good /purpose does it serve anyone- even God for that matter. There is also a time for "letting go".
> 
> ...


The root of all that has gone on, the infidelities, divorce, her anger, her pride, her "happiness", etc. are all due to her spiritual waywardness. What I'm saying until that is restored, nothing else matters. God is a God of restoration and reconciliation. To be reconciled to him is his desire for everyone. And as I've stated on another thread: "You can never find in sin what you go into sin to find". She thinks she will, but it doesn't work that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Unconditional love? Sure, I'll always love my wife, hence I won't let her become spoiled enough to forget there will always be consequences with any action - positive or negative, nor will I allow my daughter to be raised spoiled.

Personally I think she's been spoiled enough with security.


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## Kimberley17 (Oct 10, 2011)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I only believe in unconditional love when it comes to my kids. Period.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

I believe in unconditional love....and in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and every one of the Care Bears.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*



RandomDude said:


> Unconditional love? Sure, I'll always love my wife, hence I won't let her become spoiled enough to forget there will always be consequences with any action - positive or negative, nor will I allow my daughter to be raised spoiled.
> 
> Personally I think she's been spoiled enough with security.


Spoiling is only good if you are getting some spoiling back- with the spouse that is. I am all for consequences too. I am a Tough Loving Mom, my kids know it well enough.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*Re: How many people here believe in "Unconditional Love"... what does that mean to yo*

Heh, she does and she doesn't, and the stupid thing is, when she thinks she's spoiling me with some stuff she's actually not (you know what I'm talking about heh), but yet still feels entitled to be spoiled.

But meh she's improved a lot compared to the last few years


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