# How many men want "hot" women



## uhtred

OK sounds sort of a dumb question, but how many men consider a woman's appearance to be the top priority in how desirable she is as a date? Here I'm not talking about someone not being horrible looking - but how desirable is it to date top 1/1000, rather than the top 1/2 (in the age range the you are interested in)?


----------



## ConanHub

Looks aren't a top consideration but I also don't consider looks alone in determining the "hot" factor.

Being with a hot woman is pretty important to me.


----------



## JBTX

uhtred said:


> OK sounds sort of a dumb question, but how many men consider a woman's appearance to be the top priority in how desirable she is as a date? Here I'm not talking about someone not being horrible looking - but how desirable is it to date top 1/1000, rather than the top 1/2 (in the age range the you are interested in)?




The top 1/1000 is extremely subjective.

To me, it’s about Visually Classiness. That speaks volumes. 

Such as: How does she dress, is hair appropriate for her features and how she wears makeup is actually a huge first impression of hot physically. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

We all do.

However, we don't always have the same criteria for what is hot, so there's no such thing as a universal top 1/1000.

But we pretty much all want someone who is hot to us.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Looks are great but brains are better....


----------



## CharlieParker

You really don’t know a “hot” woman until menopause. (YMMV.)


----------



## personofinterest

CharlieParker said:


> You really don’t know a “hot” woman until menopause. (YMMV.)


Hahahahahaha-

https://youtu.be/8p8BCsrrpVE


----------



## HDC

The older I get the more the hotness matters.


----------



## jywilli69

CharlieParker said:


> You really don’t know a “hot” woman until menopause. (YMMV.)


 You got that right.>


----------



## ReformedHubby

Physical attraction does matter to me, but its not the most important thing. It used to be more important when I was younger, and it does mean more to you when you first meet a person. But....after you've dated a few head turners you realize that there is more to a relationship. I have to say I was glad it was over when the relationship I had with the hottest woman I've ever dated ended. Yet there were guys lined up that were pining for her the whole time we were together. Being "hot", isn't enough to keep a relationship going.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Alright I'll be the shallow guy. Of freaking course it's important are you joking with this question? Come on guys, this question is about DATING. As in we're not talking about being married where everything else comes into play. You first see a hot woman you check for a ring. If its not there, you step into the batter's box and swing for the fences. I don't care how dumb she is, I'll go on at least one date. What, are you gonna pass up a date if some absolute dime piece who approaches you because she seems ditsy? I mean, are you even a man at that point if you're single, got nothing else to do, and some bombshell walks up and introduces herself but she says "like, and stuff" a lot? I don't care if she's in my ear about women's issues all night at dinner. "Like, do you think like, a women should make like, $.78 for every dollar a man makes and stuff?" 

Not saying I'll marry that woman, but go on a few dates with a Shakira look alike who's dumb as a bag of rocks? Uh, yeah! Why not? I mean, do I have a **** and balls or not?


----------



## farsidejunky

Hot is so subjective. I really prefer cute over hot. 

Every hot woman I have ever been with was BSC. That may speak more to my SMV than anything as I know there are hot women who are not crazy. 

The girl-next-door types were always the ones I have fallen for.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

I was trying to separate how much men valued appearance as opposed to other characteristics.




Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> We all do.
> 
> However, we don't always have the same criteria for what is hot, so there's no such thing as a universal top 1/1000.
> 
> But we pretty much all want someone who is hot to us.


----------



## farsidejunky

uhtred said:


> I was trying to separate how much men valued appearance as opposed to other characteristics.


A 10 in looks with a rotten soul was normally good for two weeks for me. 

I would take a charming, trustworthy 5 over the alternative all day long and twice on Sunday.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

Even if we are talking about one date, and just for sex, is appearance that important - compared to say awesomeness in bed? I don't think the two are correlated at all. 

I was at a beech resort somewhere in the Pacific, sitting in the bar next to the pool. A stunning woman wearing a few strips of cloth went to sunbath near the water. Probably the most directly physically attractive woman I've seen in person. She was mighty easy on the eyes, but it didn't generate any sense of actually wanting to meet her. The women who seemed more interesting to me were the ones doing things, or talking with friends, having fun. Not the one posing in the most visible place she could find. 

If I were in a situation to be looking for a date, its one of those other women I would have approached. 





TheDudeLebowski said:


> Alright I'll be the shallow guy. Of freaking course it's important are you joking with this question? Come on guys, this question is about DATING. As in we're not talking about being married where everything else comes into play. You first see a hot woman you check for a ring. If its not there, you step into the batter's box and swing for the fences. I don't care how dumb she is, I'll go on at least one date. What, are you gonna pass up a date if some absolute dime piece who approaches you because she seems ditsy? I mean, are you even a man at that point if you're single, got nothing else to do, and some bombshell walks up and introduces herself but she says "like, and stuff" a lot? I don't care if she's in my ear about women's issues all night at dinner. "Like, do you think like, a women should make like, $.78 for every dollar a man makes and stuff?"
> 
> Not saying I'll marry that woman, but go on a few dates with a Shakira look alike who's dumb as a bag of rocks? Uh, yeah! Why not? I mean, do I have a **** and balls or not?


----------



## farsidejunky

For a night or 14, hot was higher priority.

After that, character and spark were a necessity.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Alright I'll be the shallow guy. Of freaking course it's important are you joking with this question? Come on guys, this question is about DATING. As in we're not talking about being married where everything else comes into play. You first see a hot woman you check for a ring. If its not there, you step into the batter's box and swing for the fences. I don't care how dumb she is, I'll go on at least one date. What, are you gonna pass up a date if some absolute dime piece who approaches you because she seems ditsy? I mean, are you even a man at that point if you're single, got nothing else to do, and some bombshell walks up and introduces herself but she says "like, and stuff" a lot? I don't care if she's in my ear about women's issues all night at dinner. "Like, do you think like, a women should make like, $.78 for every dollar a man makes and stuff?"
> 
> Not saying I'll marry that woman, but go on a few dates with a Shakira look alike who's dumb as a bag of rocks? Uh, yeah! Why not? I mean, do I have a **** and balls or not?


Thankfully some men have the 'balls' not to act that way. Not to deliberately use a woman like that and then throw them aside.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> We all do.
> 
> However, we don't always have the same criteria for what is hot, so there's no such thing as a universal top 1/1000.
> 
> But we pretty much all want someone who is hot to us.


Absolutely. One persons 'hot' may be another mans 'average'.


----------



## sokillme

What is a hot women? I have had women who I was very attracted to who in my mind were hot but they were not movie star beautiful. Whatever it was it was something I was very attracted to. You don't have to be a 10 to have people attracted to you.


----------



## Mr.Married

My ability to be OK with different levels of "not hot" would be proportional to the size of her TITS ...... 

or am I joking ???????


----------



## red oak

Appearance isn't what makes a woman "hot" to me. 
It's personality, sense of humor, and vibe.

A water hemlock, or a digitalis flower, both have beauty, but it's what they have on the inside making them unattractive.


----------



## Andy1001

If I could only give one piece of advice to anyone entering the dating game it would be this. 
Don’t mistake beauty for goodness.


----------



## Red Sonja

Lostinthought61 said:


> Looks are great but brains are better....


:rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


----------



## In Absentia

As long as she's got big tits... :laugh:


----------



## CubsFan89

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder is pretty on point with regards to this. 

I think my wife is absolutely gorgeous and everytime she enters a room she turns my head.

Doesn't matter if she is all dolled up for our date night or just went 9 rounds with the toddlers after bath night I find her stunning.

Would another man feel the same way about her? Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, all that's important to me is, that is how I see her.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

uhtred said:


> I was trying to separate how much men valued appearance as opposed to other characteristics.


I think I addressed that. Most of us value appearance to a high degree. I just added that what constitutes top level appearance isn't universal. 

For me, the element of relative to other characteristics doesn't mean much. I fully expect to think my mate is hot AND to have other characteristics I like. I will not saccharine one cor the other. I find the whole package or I don't play.


----------



## delupt

While men may differ on what they find hot, physical attractivness (youth, beauty, figure, style, etc.) is a woman's primary sexual market value.

I'm over 50 so dating under mid-30s is tougher, but I don't expect a 50-year old woman to look like a Ukranian lingerie model, but looking good for your age matters A LOT. I would never consider dating a woman I wasn't sexually attracted to - for me: slim at under 135-140lbs depending on height, long hair, with cute legs 'n bum as boobs have no power over me  - and I wouldn't want or expect a woman to date me if I didn't sexually attract her. 

Smarts, femininity and humor are all plus points, but career, salary, independence, etc. are all irrelevant. 

And once we're dating, the only determining factor on it ending is the drama level, and therefore my ability to calmly shut it down once it rears its ugly head 

For most men, it just can't start without physical attraction. Luckily for us, for women, physical attraction is only part of a bigger set of qualities ...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


I honestly don't think I ever witnessed this. Bu then I didn't grow up/go to college in an area with many brainy women (or men for that matter).

I would have loved to have met more female electrical engineering or physics majors.


----------



## john117

Lostinthought61 said:


> Looks are great but brains are better....


Attitude is best.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Diana7 said:


> Thankfully some men have the 'balls' not to act that way. Not to deliberately use a woman like that and then throw them aside.


How is it using a woman? I'm the guy, so I would pay for the date first of all. Second, what if she's a bit ditsy however, everything else about her is perfect for me? Remember, I'm talking about a first date here. Plenty of men and women have gone on dates with incredibly attractive people only to find they are just not a good fit. But sheesh, some hot person approaches you, yeah, you'll go on that date. Why wouldn't you? What if they are perfect, AND incredibly hot? Well, you end up married to them like I did! Haha


----------



## StillSearching

Give me a pretty face and a great attitude.
BOOM case closed. I'm signing up!


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Alright I'll be the shallow guy. Of freaking course it's important are you joking with this question? Come on guys, this question is about DATING. As in we're not talking about being married where everything else comes into play. You first see a hot woman you check for a ring. If its not there, you step into the batter's box and swing for the fences. I don't care how dumb she is, I'll go on at least one date. What, are you gonna pass up a date if some absolute dime piece who approaches you because she seems ditsy? I mean, are you even a man at that point if you're single, got nothing else to do, and some bombshell walks up and introduces herself but she says "like, and stuff" a lot? I don't care if she's in my ear about women's issues all night at dinner. "Like, do you think like, a women should make like, $.78 for every dollar a man makes and stuff?"
> 
> Not saying I'll marry that woman, but go on a few dates with a Shakira look alike who's dumb as a bag of rocks? Uh, yeah! Why not? I mean, do I have a **** and balls or not?


It's interesting to me (really... no agenda) that people (many people) think that being a member of a group means that the whole group feels the same. Or maybe my husband does not have the parts you describe. He met a woman recently. She was HOT. He calls me hot. And that is sweet, and true to a degree I guess. But she was HOT. We were talking with a buddy of ours. Buddy says damn, she's hot. I'd hit that. DH said nah she is dumb as a box of rocks and a little crazy. Buddy was like yah if you weren't getting any, but when have you not gotten any? DH said yah that would be a new kind of desperate.

lol. I mean be you. I just thought the difference was mildly funny.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


There's actually a lot of data on this stuff. Birds of a feather is way more likely than opposites attract. Not to broad brush, but men typically do not do well with women who are smarter than them. Also, women don't do well with men who are dumber than them. So incredibly intelligent women have a much smaller pool to choose from. If you are an incredibly intelligent woman and you're 6'2" good luck! Women also typically have a hard time with men who are shorter. So now that woman has to find a 6'5" genius. Talk about a small pool to choose from. 

In terms of college years, you were quite frankly out of too many men's leagues. The ones who were perhaps good matches most likely weren't the type to be out there hitting on hot women looking to date around. A lot of them probably had a gf already too. The really hot, incredibly smart men have extremely high market value.


----------



## Talk2Me

I'm going to not give the politically correct answer and say that every man would rather be with a woman that is hot. Hands down no question asked. Many here are saying that their brains are beautiful. Don't get me wrong we want a woman that is intelligent and fun etc but we all would rather a woman that is hot. It is how we are wired. We are visual creatures we can't help it. My g/f is hot and I hope she always stays that way. That is the first reason I started dating her. She's awesome but she's def. hot and if she wasn't we prob. never would have started dating.


----------



## Personal

For me beauty has always been a top priority, since aesthetics for my own pleasure and attraction matter to me. While all the rest that is important, has always followed closely after that.

When my wife was young she looked a lot like this Italian movie star, who was famous in the 50s and 60s.




























While my wife still looks splendid, since she has aged very well.

My ex-wife was also extremely beautiful as well. That said I have never dated any woman, or been in a sexual relationship with any who weren't a beauty to behold.


----------



## In Absentia

Seriously, I'm not fussy... as long as she's got a good body (meaning curves I like) and is intelligent, with a good sense of humour, I'm pretty much easy going...


----------



## Personal

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Women also typically have a hard time with men who are shorter.


From considerable experience with plenty of women who are taller, I concur they have a hard time. :wink2:


----------



## Andy1001

They will never admit it but a lot of men are far too insecure to date really hot women. 
They can’t handle other guys finding her attractive and always worry about orbiters.


----------



## farsidejunky

Andy1001 said:


> They will never admit it but a lot of men are far too insecure to date really hot women.
> 
> They can’t handle other guys finding her attractive and always worry about orbiters.


I have no interest in women who need orbiters. 

Does that make me insecure?

Or is it due diligence?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

farsidejunky said:


> Hot is so subjective. I really prefer cute over hot.
> 
> Every hot woman I have ever been with was BSC. That may speak more to my SMV than anything as I know there are hot women who are not crazy.
> 
> The girl-next-door types were always the ones I have fallen for.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I agree wholeheartedly. 

But to just date a time or two, hotness has always been the draw in most situations. 

However yes there are some who were still hot, but I got to know before an official date, that started with a higher enjoyment factor than one that was only hot.

But it's a balance. Always has been. But there have always been, (shallow me, I know) women that I liked but would never date because physically that desire wasn't and wouldn't ever be there.

It doesn't mean I thought less of them, just that we would never be compatible on that front.

I'm sure I'm not every woman's cup of tea, either, but that's ok too.


----------



## NobodySpecial

farsidejunky said:


> I have no interest in women who need orbiters.
> 
> Does that make me insecure?
> 
> Or is it due diligence?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Unfortunately they exist whether we want them or not.


----------



## tech-novelist

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


That says a lot more about them than about you.
Intelligence in a woman is a necessity for me.


----------



## Livvie

So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


you have been meeting the wrong men. what was your major?


----------



## personofinterest

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


Funny, that hasn't been my experience.....not that I dated tons, but I don't think my high IQ really had much to do with it. I had a large social circle and had a steady stream of dates, along with a few relationships, but I was not "hot" for sure.

I think it was my personality and emotional intelligence that made the difference.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

NobodySpecial said:


> It's interesting to me (really... no agenda) that people (many people) think that being a member of a group means that the whole group feels the same. Or maybe my husband does not have the parts you describe. He met a woman recently. She was HOT. He calls me hot. And that is sweet, and true to a degree I guess. But she was HOT. We were talking with a buddy of ours. Buddy says damn, she's hot. I'd hit that. DH said nah she is dumb as a box of rocks and a little crazy. Buddy was like yah if you weren't getting any, but when have you not gotten any? DH said yah that would be a new kind of desperate.
> 
> lol. I mean be you. I just thought the difference was mildly funny.



Hey, I'll never be able to afford a Tesla. I don't even want one really. Still took one for a test drive, just because.


----------



## tech-novelist

Livvie said:


> So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?


Of course I can't speak for all men, and I am fortunate in that most of my girlfriends have been quite pretty, as is my wife.

But I would say that as long as a woman's looks are above the acceptable threshold for a particular man, that man is likely to be satisfied with her and not run around looking for a replacement. This is of course assuming that they are otherwise compatible in personality and the like.


----------



## BioFury

My physical must-haves are a cute face, relatively thin, and a nice butt. The women I find "hot" typically exclude the ones who have the "I'm hot" attitude about them. The low-key introverted chicks who aren't the bell of the ball are the ones who really draw my attention.


----------



## Blondilocks

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Alright I'll be the shallow guy. Of freaking course it's important are you joking with this question? Come on guys, this question is about DATING. As in we're not talking about being married where everything else comes into play. You first see a hot woman you check for a ring. If its not there, you step into the batter's box and swing for the fences. I don't care how dumb she is, I'll go on at least one date. What, are you gonna pass up a date if some absolute dime piece who approaches you because she seems ditsy? I mean, are you even a man at that point if you're single, got nothing else to do, and some bombshell walks up and introduces herself but she says "like, and stuff" a lot? I don't care if she's in my ear about women's issues all night at dinner. "Like, do you think like, a women should make like, $.78 for every dollar a man makes and stuff?"
> 
> Not saying I'll marry that woman, but go on a few dates with a Shakira look alike who's dumb as a bag of rocks? Uh, yeah! Why not? I mean,* do I have a **** and balls or not?*


That depends on whether you put the toilet seat down.:wink2:


----------



## Andy1001

farsidejunky said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will never admit it but a lot of men are far too insecure to date really hot women.
> 
> They can’t handle other guys finding her attractive and always worry about orbiters.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no interest in women who need orbiters.
> 
> Does that make me insecure?
> 
> Or is it due diligence?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Orbiters are a bit like having a ghost in your house. Nobody wants it but they don’t go away unless they are forced to.


----------



## personofinterest

Andy1001 said:


> Orbiters are a bit like having a ghost in your house. Nobody wants it but they don’t go away unless they are forced to.


So we should surround them with salt and hit them over the head with an iron bar?


----------



## Livvie

BioFury said:


> My physical must-haves are a cute face, relatively thin, and a nice butt. The women I find "hot" typically exclude the ones who have the "I'm hot" attitude about them. The low-key introverted chicks who aren't the bell of the ball are the ones who really draw my attention.


I'm glad to hear this!! I was getting very confused at the responses on this thread, because honestly, most people are just average looking!! I see average women with partners all over the place and it would be sad to think that their partners were secretly sad about having had to settle for someone "not hot".


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> As long as she's got big tits... :laugh:


A man who knows what he wants. Gotta admire that.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

With obesity rates what they are in the US, it seems to me it'd be pretty easy to score at least "above average."

(For either gender)


----------



## 2&out

Yes looks/hotness is most important. Why else would I want to date them ? I think we all try to get the best we can whether we want to admit it or not. Prior to and even after my first marriage my Pals had loads of laughs referring to me as Quasimodo and her as "E" for Esmerelda. She was approached/pursued almost daily even with a ring on her finger but she was pretty good at shutting guys and unwanted advances down. She also carried pepper spray and was not afraid to use it.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> With obesity rates what they are in the US, it seems to me it'd be pretty easy to score at least "above average."
> 
> (For either gender)


I think men just adjust. "Thick" women are all the rage now.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Blondilocks said:


> That depends on whether you put the toilet seat down.:wink2:


Part of my men's rights march is to tell women its time for them to leave the toilet seat up for us! We've been used and abused by this restroom matriarchy for far too long. I'm still trying to find a name for it that is catchy. So if your wife or gf complains about leaving the seat up we can snap back with "stop woman-throning me!"


----------



## Blondilocks

My older sister was way prettier than me (plus, taller and more developed figure). As teenagers and dating, I had a steady stream of dates and boyfriends where as she sat home every Friday and Saturday. She whined to my mom that she didn't understand - she was so much prettier than Blondie but Blondie got all the boys. Mom looked at her and said "It's your personality, dear."


----------



## minimalME

farsidejunky said:


> I really prefer cute over hot.


Over my lifetime, I've consistently been referred to (by both men and women) as cute - never hot. But there are a lot worse adjectives, so I'll take cute.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Blondilocks said:


> My older sister was way prettier than me (plus, taller and more developed figure). As teenagers and dating, I had a steady stream of dates and boyfriends where as she sat home every Friday and Saturday. She whined to my mom that she didn't understand - she was so much prettier than Blondie but Blondie got all the boys. Mom looked at her and said "It's your personality, dear."


Lmao! There is a thing where hot women rely too much on their looks and do little else. Some men do this too, but I think it's less common in men. Maybe I'm wrong on that one, but there's not that many male equivalents to the Kardashian's and there's not all that many male Instagram models and such. A dumb hot woman still has a large market value. A dumb hot guy has much less market value.


----------



## NobodySpecial

blondilocks said:


> my older sister was way prettier than me (plus, taller and more developed figure). As teenagers and dating, i had a steady stream of dates and boyfriends where as she sat home every friday and saturday. She whined to my mom that she didn't understand - she was so much prettier than blondie but blondie got all the boys. Mom looked at her and said "it's your personality, dear."


ouch.


----------



## MovingForward

Total package for me and depends on how we met.

For Online only option is a picture initially so all I focus on is am i attracted or not. In the work place or thru friends of friends some people become 'hot' based on personality or aura they give off so maybe first glance not hot but once you connect they become really hot.

I was initially attracted to my Girlfriend enough to approach her and chat but she was not overly attracted to me physically, we spoke mostly because we are both foreign and have accents, she even saw me on a dating app and did not swipe me because I was not her type, we went on a date mostly because neither of us had much else to do and both wanted some company and enjoyed each others company enough to go on a second date and have been together ever since, I am extremely attracted to her now and and she seems to be the same with me.

I think Online dating sites have ruined dating a lot since it all starts with purely physically attraction which can end the moment someone opens there mouth or you see them in real day light without all the filters and bells and whistles.


----------



## Lila

Livvie said:


> So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?


I think most people (average men and average women) settle to some extent. 

Most people start with an idealized version of our perfect partner based on the qualities we prioritize most.. We then start whideling those qualities down until we come to something we can actually achieve. That doesn't mean we don't still have an idealized version of our perfect partner. It only means we are hopefully content with the kind of partner who is content with us.


----------



## In Absentia

Have you ever seen an ugly guy with a very pretty girl and thought... how did he do that? Hidden qualities, people tell me... :laugh:


----------



## uhtred

Where were you meeting men?

Its also possible that you aren't attracted to the sort of men who are attracted to women for their brains. (Not a negative statement, just that people have preferences, and its possible to mostly desire a personality type that is not as likely to desire you).


The women I've dated have all had brains, and my wife is a brainy nerd. 




Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.


----------



## In Absentia

And have you ever seen a very ugly girl with a very pretty boy? Dirty in bed, people tell me... :laugh:


----------



## SunCMars

Hot to trot, hot to start....

Later, going from hot to ever-warm.

Warm to the touch, warm kept so in mind.

Heat cares not its shaped container, heat relies on insulation for longevity.

The insulation of promises made and such they kept.

Kisses inject the heat, promises hold the the temperature steady.

Steady and ready for more kisses, more heat.

Heat fed by sugar, delivered by a sweet tongue, a caring mind, a heavy touch transferring lust to heat to at last, passion.
Unending, heat never gone cold.

Yes, that.

Thank you!





[THM]- The Typist I


----------



## uhtred

I suspect that there are also guys who want to date traditionally "hot" women in order to impress other guys, rather than date the women that they personally find most attractive. 




Andy1001 said:


> They will never admit it but a lot of men are far too insecure to date really hot women.
> They can’t handle other guys finding her attractive and always worry about orbiters.


----------



## Lila

In Absentia said:


> And have you ever seen a very ugly girl with a very pretty boy? Dirty in bed, people tell me... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


I know this is just my experience but the only time I've seen this is when the guy is submissive or he's hiding a secret life. The ugly girls who are dirty in bed are rarely seen outside the bedroom or in the daylight with the pretty boys. Again, just my experience.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> Have you ever seen an ugly guy with a very pretty girl and thought... how did he do that? Hidden qualities, people tell me... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


He's probably got $$.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> My older sister was way prettier than me (plus, taller and more developed figure). As teenagers and dating, I had a steady stream of dates and boyfriends where as she sat home every Friday and Saturday. She whined to my mom that she didn't understand - she was so much prettier than Blondie but Blondie got all the boys. Mom looked at her and said "It's your personality, dear."


Ah.....

Alas.

But, my Dear....

In the interim, all those years.

Yes.

Just say it.

Oh my!

What happened, Dear, in the interim?

Why so bitter?

Not even left as mere bitter-sweet.

Just so damn full-up bitter.

I suspect, under those layers of blond fuzz is a women just as sweet as you, your 'Yesteryear'.

You, some yesteryear, Dear. 

Say it!

Men are no longer worth the effort!

Ah, so sad, so bad.

Sigh...





[THM] [[[[The Fist]]]]


----------



## Lila

I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


----------



## In Absentia

Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


I used to hug my wife, gently grab her boobs and go.... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :smile2:


----------



## farsidejunky

Andy1001 said:


> Orbiters are a bit like having a ghost in your house. Nobody wants it but they don’t go away unless they are forced to.


That's exactly right.

In my mind, the difference is whether the orbiters are tolerated or dismissed.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## hope4family

Seriously is this even a question? 

We all have standards, and we should have standards.

Yes, some peoples standards of "hot" are ridiculously high and they still are, "shockingly". Single. 

I wouldn't date someone who doesn't have the capability to make my loins tingle.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


Words and deeds: Sometimes I tell her and sometimes I maul her. Both go over well provided I'm sensitive to detecting which is most appreciated when.


----------



## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?
> 
> 
> 
> Words and deeds: Sometimes I tell her and sometimes I maul her. Both go over well provided I'm sensitive to detecting which is most appreciated when.
Click to expand...

This is the only way I know when someone genuinely views me as hot in their eyes. 

Words alone don't mean anything to me. Anyone can say anything.

Actions alone don't mean jack. I would feel like a sex doll if there was just action. 

It takes both at the right time and quantity to make it believble. 

Since my divorce, I have only experienced this with one person. When we were together, it's like he had eyes only for me. Couldn't get enough of me. It was awesome


----------



## Deejo

Is sex rank still a thing? Or does that get lumped in with the red pill stuff? 

Because I believe it without a doubt. I tell my wife all of the time now, "I was much cooler when I was single." Her response? "Yeah. You kind of were. But I'm thankful every day I met you." She had checkboxes, I checked them. Same in my case with her.

Attraction isn't much of a choice really.

If a man has the opportunity to date a woman who is categorically hot by just about anyone's standard, I'd wager they will. Whether or not they have enough going for them to make that woman want to stick around is something else entirely.

And yes, generally we all have a spectrum of attraction and if a potential partner falls somewhere on that spectrum, dating determines if they keep moving up, or down the spectrum. I don't think saying we 'settle' for average is how we select a long term partner.


----------



## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> So we should surround them with salt and hit them over the head with an iron bar?


I said ghost not goat!


----------



## Andy1001

Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


Let her catch you looking at her ass.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Andy1001 said:


> Let her catch you looking at her ass.


And we have a winner !! 

I was reading all the responses, and it's words, deeds, actions, however -

let her catch you looking at her ass or feel her up as you kiss her behind an ear, or on the neck, then just keep walking....

She'll get the idea 😎😎😎


----------



## personofinterest

Andy1001 said:


> I said ghost not goat!


You have obviously never watched a ghost hunting show lol


----------



## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> You have obviously never watched a ghost hunting show lol


I’ll have you know that my house is haunted. 
By a parrot no less.


----------



## Taxman

My wife is one of the hottest women I have ever known. She puts women half her age to shame. That being said, my wife was convinced that she was not very good looking. One of her parents' friends told her that she was as ugly as her father, not pretty like her mother. This particular piece of work, made a career of bedding down his clients. (a tradesperson who tried to woo a number of women into the sack-when his wife found out, lets say that it was like Hiroshima at his house-when she filed for divorce, this person actually went through the neighborhood promising free work if people testified against his ex. My mom, on hearing this, called the BW, and assisted her in fighting her Ex-my parents really needed the work done, but my Mom and Dad would have rather paid for it, instead of wrecking a neighbors life over it.) As a consequence, my wife for years used makeup to adjust her eyes, and covered herself more than necessary. It gave her one hell of an inferiority complex. It took years and two therapists to overcome this. To be honest, her parents never rode to her defense. When I met her, I could easily see the beautiful woman who was covering herself over in an attempt to hide from critical eyes. It took a long time for her to get comfortable in her own skin. I was no prize looks wise, but I could never understand who would call a young girl, ugly. What kind of idiot does that?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Who doesn't want a hot woman?

The more I read responses, it all comes down to that, with the adder; we each have a list of things that make a woman hot to us;
looks
attitude 
spirituality 
personality 

And when we find one that has all these items, with all the sub-components not in my list, all in the right percentages, we want them.

And the woman has to want us to want them. At the same time, no less.

Simple, right?

😊😊

If we think too much into it, it's a miracle any of us get together.


----------



## Mr. Nail




----------



## Mr. Nail

Livvie said:


> So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?


exactly like the 80% of men shorter than 6'


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

On the height thing:

I dated a 6'1" woman a while, and as I'm 6'3" we turned a lot of heads at bars and parties.

And she was built like a model, and bigger boobs, (sorry) and I liked her to wear bare midriff tops and tight jeans, no bra. 

I had never really bought into the height thing as a perk, but about that time I picked up on it.

On hot women and the "orbiters" that comes with them at that time in my life I wanted other men to want what I had every woman I dated.

Including when I first met DW, more than once at dance clubs I had to successfully threaten other men who got too close or wanted to talk to her. 

I was young and foolish, but still have those inclinations. 

But I'm thinking at that point in a young man's life, many think that way.

Maybe it's the ******* in me. Who knows.


----------



## Red Sonja

uhtred said:


> Where were you meeting men?
> 
> Its also possible that you aren't attracted to the sort of men who are attracted to women for their brains. (Not a negative statement, just that people have preferences, and its possible to mostly desire a personality type that is not as likely to desire you).


Everywhere ... it has happened consistently throughout my life. I'm not complaining about it and I've had my fair share of dates and relationships, I just find it funny that someone (on this thread) would say that brains are an important initial attraction factor for men because my experience has been the exact opposite.

For the person who asked ... I'm an electrical engineer. My younger sister is also an electrical engineer, with the same experiences with men and we joke about it often. Maybe @EleGirl can weigh in on this, I think she is also an engineer.


----------



## Red Sonja

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Part of my men's rights march is to tell women its time for them to leave the toilet seat up for us! We've been used and abused by this restroom matriarchy for far too long. I'm still trying to find a name for it that is catchy. So if your wife or gf complains about leaving the seat up we can snap back with "*stop woman-throning me*!"


Nah, I'm just trying to keep my dogs from drinking out of the "throne".


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I dated many in tech industry. But also many not. 

But all could dance, that was my initial qualifier.

I'm an Electronic Engineer.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Is sex rank still a thing? Or does that get lumped in with the red pill stuff?



Ew. I just googled sex rank. There is so much being talked about that I want to un-see today.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

What's sex rank?

I guess I could google.


----------



## Mr. Nail

NobodySpecial said:


> Ew. I just googled sex rank. There is so much being talked about that I want to un-see today.


Well while you are at it try menofaverageheight.com


----------



## uhtred

I tell or show my wife in different ways every day. It can be an "l love you" and gentle kiss, or it can be grabbing her in a tight hug and kissing her neck and biting her ear. Depends on what it seems would be most appreciated at the time. 

For me, the whole "hotness" thing vanishes if you love someone - then they are what you desire. 



Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


----------



## Deejo

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What's sex rank?
> 
> I guess I could google.


Taking all of the inflammatory rhetoric away from the term if you do google it; it's your number on a scale of 1 to 10. Importantly, your SR isn't determined by you. Has it's roots in that Dudley Moore, Bo Derek movie '10'.
In simplest terms, Bo Derek was a 10, Dudley Moore was a 7 based on his charm, and his money. Take those away, and he was a drunken ass, 4. 

As to the height thing ... I did always used to get a kick if women found it disrespectful that men would regard them arbitrarily based on looks, yet that same woman would declare that she just wasn't attracted to guys shorter than her. 

I personally have no problem with people wanting what they want. If you have a healthy self-esteem, which can be a pretty big caveat, generally you aren't going to care. I think people should be selfish when it comes to looking for a long term mate. I'm 5' 10" and I remember messaging a woman who indicated in her profile that she was 5'5". She subsequently made it clear she wasn't interested in dating anyone that wasn't at least 6' 2".
Godspeed, madame. Godspeed.


----------



## minimalME

Deejo said:


> Dudley Moore was a 7 based on his charm, and his money. Take those away, and he was a drunken ass, 4.


That's being very generous. 

I was married to 6'4", and I'm 5'4". It always felt super awkward to me, and I'm actually more comforatable with men more my height. I can do 5'8" or even a genuine 5'6", but shorter than me would be just as uncomfortable as too tall.


----------



## uhtred

I haven't been involved in the dating scene since the late Cretaceous. For *me* (and I can't speak for anyone else), brains are a real attraction. My wife is an engineer with an advanced degree. There is no way I could live with someone who wasn't an intelligent nerd - I'd drive them crazy. 

My group does a lot of EE - mostly bizarre analog stuff. My wife is in a different engineering field. 





Red Sonja said:


> Everywhere ... it has happened consistently throughout my life. I'm not complaining about it and I've had my fair share of dates and relationships, I just find it funny that someone (on this thread) would say that brains are an important initial attraction factor for men because my experience has been the exact opposite.
> 
> For the person who asked ... I'm an electrical engineer. My younger sister is also an electrical engineer, with the same experiences with men and we joke about it often. Maybe @EleGirl can weigh in on this, I think she is also an engineer.


----------



## Andy1001

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I dated many in tech industry. But also many not.
> 
> But all could dance, that was my initial qualifier.
> 
> I'm an Electronic Engineer.


Three engineers were discussing the possible designers of the human body
The first one said it was a mechanical engineer because of all the joints.
The second said it was an electrical engineer because the nervous system has so many electrical connections. 
The third said it had to be a civil engineer, because who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?


----------



## Andy1001

minimalME said:


> That's being very generous.
> 
> I was married to 6'4", and I'm 5'4". It always felt super awkward to me, and I'm actually more comforatable with men more my height. I can do 5'8" or even a genuine 5'6", but shorter than me would be just as uncomfortable as too tall.


I’m 6’2” and I once had a ons with a woman who was 4’10”. 
She wouldn’t meet me again,she said she felt like a novelty pencil sharpener.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I'm 5'6" and I just learned that according to the US census, I'm taller than 70% of women within 20 years of my age. I'm also shorter than 80% of men within 20 years of my age. Deejo's remark about dating profiles is the breaking point for me. Even though I am taller than a 2/3 majority of women I am much to short to date. Now that is understandable as there are plenty of men taller than me. When you get into those women who demand 6' or better you are getting into thin air. Only about 20% of men qualify. Obviously most of these women end up "Settling" for shorter.

In the end either we settle, or we learn what is really important to us. My experience with "hot" women has led me to devalue them. But saying that, I still feel I married up.


----------



## Buddy400

TheDudeLebowski said:


> There's actually a lot of data on this stuff. Birds of a feather is way more likely than opposites attract. Not to broad brush, but men typically do not do well with women who are smarter than them. Also, women don't do well with men who are dumber than them. So incredibly intelligent women have a much smaller pool to choose from. If you are an incredibly intelligent woman and you're 6'2" good luck! Women also typically have a hard time with men who are shorter. So now that woman has to find a 6'5" genius. Talk about a small pool to choose from.
> 
> In terms of college years, you were quite frankly out of too many men's leagues. The ones who were perhaps good matches most likely weren't the type to be out there hitting on hot women looking to date around. A lot of them probably had a gf already too. The really hot, incredibly smart men have extremely high market value.


I think it's very important to emphasize that, while men are generally not attracted to women smarter than them, *women are generally not attracted to men who are dumber than them*. If I had to bet, I'd say that the second is a bigger factor than the first.

Same with height. Women not being attracted to men shorter than them is probably a bigger factor than men not being attracted to women taller than them.


----------



## Buddy400

Livvie said:


> So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?


If women really do want tall, then all of the men under 6 feet are just something women settle for?

Yes, to some degree.

But, there isn't enough "hot" and "tall" to go around. So, most people are realistic.


----------



## Lila

The interesting thing about Sex Rank is how we apply it to ourselves as well as how we apply it to others. 

If we assume the law of averages applies to SR then most human beings are average shmoes (4, 5, 6), less than half of those are slightly above (7,8) or below that (2,3), and a minimal few are uniquely unattractive (0,1) or smokin hot (9,10).

So why is it that when asked to self rank, most average Joe's/Jane's rank themselves at least a 6 or 7? (See @Deejo reference to Arthur for example)

And when asked to rank others, it's typically on a hot (9,10) or not (0,1) scale? There's rarely a 5 in the bunch.


----------



## Buddy400

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Part of my men's rights march is to tell women its time for them to leave the toilet seat up for us! We've been used and abused by this restroom matriarchy for far too long. I'm still trying to find a name for it that is catchy. So if your wife or gf complains about leaving the seat up we can snap back with "stop woman-throning me!"


If I use the toilet with the seat down, I put it back up when I'm done.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Buddy400 said:


> If women really do want tall, then all of the men under 6 feet are just something women settle for?
> 
> Yes, to some degree.
> 
> But, there isn't enough "hot" and "tall" to go around. So, most people are realistic.


You can overcome that if you're Tom Cruise (5'7" tall... by contrast, ex-wife Nicole Kidman is 5'11") or Mickey Rooney (a whopping 5'2" tall, but bedded Ava Gardner and it didn't get any hotter than that back in the day).


----------



## Livvie

Buddy400 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if men really do want hot, then all of the average women in the world are just something men settle for?
> 
> 
> 
> If women really do want tall, then all of the men under 6 feet are just something women settle for?
> 
> Yes, to some degree.
> 
> But, there isn't enough "hot" and "tall" to go around. So, most people are realistic.
Click to expand...

I help the numbers! I'm 5'2" and not into tall. I'd rather a 5'6" guy any day!


----------



## Buddy400

Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?


I tell my wife she's hot as often as possible while still maintaining credibility.


----------



## MaiChi

The question should apply to both genders. There are some unfit men out there. For me personally looks are as important as other factors. A man who is not disciplined in how he looks after himself is likely to be undisciplined in other aspects of his life. A man needs to be below 90 kg and able to dig the garden. Also I should not here him breathing from across the room. 

Looks are very important in men as in women. BMI must be below 25 in both.


----------



## Lila

Buddy400 said:


> If women really do want tall, then all of the men under 6 feet are just something women settle for?
> 
> Yes, to some degree.
> 
> But, there isn't enough "hot" and "tall" to go around. So, most people are realistic.


I think that 6' + thing is not a universal thing for women. Ideal height for me (I'm 5'4 but wear heels all of the time) is 5'9 or 5'10. I'll date shorter up to 5'6-5'7 and taller up to 6'2 but the Goldilocks height is 5'9 ish.


----------



## Blondilocks

NobodySpecial said:


> ouch.


Well, my sister had a resting face that would scare a statue. Her temper could go from zero to ninety in a nano second. And, we won't talk about her sense of entitlement. 

I attribute her foul humor to the fact that she was born with a stick up her butt.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Buddy400 said:


> I tell my wife she's hot as often as possible while still maintaining credibility.


... always a balancing act right there...


----------



## HDC

Lila said:


> The interesting thing about Sex Rank is how we apply it to ourselves as well as how we apply it to others.
> 
> If we assume the law of averages applies to SR then most human beings are average shmoes (4, 5, 6), less than half of those are slightly above (7,8) or below that (2,3), and a minimal few are uniquely unattractive (0,1) or smokin hot (9,10).
> 
> So why is it that when asked to self rank, most average Joe's/Jane's rank themselves at least a 6 or 7? (See @Deejo reference to Arthur for example)
> 
> And when asked to rank others, it's typically on a hot (9,10) or not (0,1) scale? There's rarely a 5 in the bunch.



While some people have self esteem problems, most people don’t and then there are some people that think way to much of themselves. Which is probably why they rank themselves so highly, when others wouldn’t. On the other side of that they probably rank people high they’re attracted too and low if they’re not. I rank people all up and down the scale, some women are cute in then face but don’t have a body I like, Solid 5. But I’ve never seen a 10 anywhere.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.


----------



## Deejo

minimalME said:


> That's being very generous.


Well, it is definitely subjective vs. objective.

You touched upon that very word, regarding how you felt about height. I've heard women often refer to their aversion to short, or shorter men, as not feeling 'comfortable' or 'safe'.


----------



## Livvie

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.


.... So it follows, that every man not with a hot woman doesn't have what he really wants.


----------



## Personal

uhtred said:


> I suspect that there are also guys who want to date traditionally "hot" women in order to impress other guys, rather than date the women that they personally find most attractive.


Dating to impress others is pretty stupid.


----------



## Mr. Nail

It is one thing to desire a hotish woman.
It is a similar thing to appreciate beauty when you see it. 
Dating someone is a much bigger commitment. I'd be excused for looking for something deeper.

I once read a beauty advice column that recommended a shower be limited to 2 minutes of tepid water. Suddenly the attitudes of the Hot women that I knew made sense to me. Now when some PYT smirks at my bald short self, I think of her saying to herself, "I stood in tepid water for 2 minutes this morning so 'that' could appreciate me". And that's OK, I'd have the same attitude if I had the same shower. (or whatever beauty routine)


----------



## minimalME

I agree it is subjective.

Dudley Moore was a hobbit. He was sweet and cute and probably comfortable and safe. He'd be a good friend. 



Deejo said:


> Well, it is definitely subjective vs. objective.
> 
> You touched upon that very word, regarding how you felt about height. I've heard women often refer to their aversion to short, or shorter men, as not feeling 'comfortable' or 'safe'.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Livvie said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.
> 
> 
> 
> .... So it follows, that every man not with a hot woman doesn't have what he really wants.
Click to expand...

Well, hot only takes you so far. Basically to the bedroom. If thats all he or she wants, otherwise, it might be good to find something more.


----------



## uhtred

Depends on what you mean by "hot". If its appearance (which is what I meant when I started this thread), then no. No matter how physically attractive a woman is, I do not want her unless she is interesting. I will take an interesting, average-looking woman over a insanely attractive boring woman any time. 

An attractive woman is a nice piece of art - if I were a billionaire, I might scatter a few around my house as decoration, but I don't really want to spend any time with them if they are dull 


Even if we are just talking about sex, I'll take a good, interesting lover, or someone beautiful any time.






UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.


----------



## Red Sonja

You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.

Pot/Kettle much?


----------



## JBTX

Lila said:


> I guess my question is how do men let their partner know they think they are hot?




LOL Because we behave like animals consistently in your presence and especially if we’ve got even a little of your attention. Trying to act cute, dumb, manly, make you laugh and generally being a pervert, plus annoying. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Personal

Mr. Nail said:


> But saying that, I still feel I married up.


I married up twice, since my wife and ex-wife are taller than me.

Yet I had good reason to pick them, since who else was going to help me reach things on the top shelves in the kitchen cupboards?


----------



## HDC

Livvie said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.
> 
> 
> 
> .... So it follows, that every man not with a hot woman doesn't have what he really wants.
Click to expand...

I think there is some truth to that. I know people who settled for what they could get, not necessarily the person they wanted the most.


----------



## HDC

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much? <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)" ></a>



I’ll take the bait....... I know some very attractive taller women. Long legs, longer arms.... it’s nice. I probably naturally gravitate towards the shorter women 5”0....5”2..... they’re just so darn cute. Having said that height has never entered my mind when thinking about asking out a girl. Not even once, not even a little. Their is som many other things more important.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Shorter women are more fertile or atleast perceived as more fertile. Evolutionary cue.


----------



## Livvie

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Shorter women are more fertile or atleast perceived as more fertile. Evolutionary cue.


I googled that and didn't find anything....


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


As I said earlier, I was a late bloomer physically. So while I eventually became s six footer, that didn't happen until my senior year... so for a long time, the pool of shorter than me girls was pretty small. I got quite comfortable looking to taller girls for dates. No bravado or trash talk required, just an acceptance of reality.

But now we know you're both exceptional in both brains and height. That's gotta' be a super rare combo. I think most guys who are genuinely up to the task would be pretty impressive specimens. Smaller, but higher quality pool?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Livvie said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shorter women are more fertile or atleast perceived as more fertile. Evolutionary cue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I googled that and didn't find anything....
Click to expand...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...alth/short-women-listen-up-size-does-matter/#



> Men apparently prefer women of below-average height because they are (subconsciously) perceived as more fertile. The reason is that in our antelope-hunting, savanna-living past, a short woman was more likely to have reached sexual maturity.
> 
> “Men still find themselves attracted to women who show the hallmarks of fertility, even if, in the modern day and age, they might not have children with them for many years and perhaps not at all,” said Nettle.
> 
> “The psychological mechanisms of attractiveness are vestiges of life under past conditions.”


I think this means that short women reach puberty earlier than tall women so they have a longer window of fertility.


----------



## Mr.Married

I made a joke about tits earlier in the thread but lets get down to it with these ..... hot women !!!!


In a HEALTHY relationship I think a guy has the hots for his woman even if she is average to other men. It's just one of those basic concepts of attraction (between those two people)

If you surveyed a bunch of married men I bet you would find that the large majority of them are still hot for their wife.

I'm lucky .... my wife really is hot......oh wait ....or is it because I'm looking through my own eyes ?

Who cares because she has what it takes ...... for me.

She's 5'0" ...... and I'm a sucker for the shorties


----------



## Mr.Married

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...alth/short-women-listen-up-size-does-matter/#
> 
> I think this means that short women reach puberty earlier than tall women so they have a longer window of fertility.



In Japan they are all short .......


----------



## Mr. Nail

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


I dated 2 women in the 6' range, which is actually a respectable percentage. The point is I would never list height or weight as a qualifier in a dating profile. Plenty of men list weight, or breast size but those don't bother me. A height preference is a whole different thing from a height requirement. Not that it matters in a practical way, this pot aint available to any kettles.


----------



## Diana7

TheDudeLebowski said:


> How is it using a woman? I'm the guy, so I would pay for the date first of all. Second, what if she's a bit ditsy however, everything else about her is perfect for me? Remember, I'm talking about a first date here. Plenty of men and women have gone on dates with incredibly attractive people only to find they are just not a good fit. But sheesh, some hot person approaches you, yeah, you'll go on that date. Why wouldn't you? What if they are perfect, AND incredibly hot? Well, you end up married to them like I did! Haha


Many men wouldn't go on a date just because some attractive woman approached them. Many are far more choosey.


----------



## Diana7

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.


----------



## Diana7

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Every man wants a hot woman. Not everyman can get a hot woman.


Really? Have you asked them all?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


I don't think anyone is being negative about it though. At least I know I wasn't. Generally speaking, women aren't in to men who are shorter than they are. I'm sure you could say the same, men aren't into women who are taller than them. However, I believe men care WAY less than women. I don't think it's a negative thing that women want a man who is equal to or taller than her. 

Btw, the average height for an American women is just under 5'4" so yeah, most of us end up with a short woman. I've never heard a man say he has a short woman preference.

Edit: I should rephrase. I've never heard a man say a its a deal breaker if they are over 5'4". I have seen men say they like em short. I have seen loads of women say a shorter man than them is a deal breaker. Which is fine. I just don't find many men that see height as a deal breaker. I'm sure they are out there somewhere though.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Diana7 said:


> Many men wouldn't go on a date just because some attractive woman approached them. Many are far more choosey.





Diana7 said:


> I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.





Diana7 said:


> Really? Have you asked them all?


Make up your mind. We cant keep up.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Diana7 said:


> I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.


Um, maybe in your country. In America we like em "thick" the stick thin woman has been out for a decade or better now. 

Btw, you two just built a 5'3" 80 pound woman. Uh, no thanks. That's getting into fetish territory.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> I think that 6' + thing is not a universal thing for women. Ideal height for me (I'm 5'4 but wear heels all of the time) is 5'9 or 5'10. I'll date shorter up to 5'6-5'7 and taller up to 6'2 but the Goldilocks height is 5'9 ish.


I think it's universal (or at least mostly so) on dating sites as opposed to real life.

Because people are advertising what they're looking for rather than screening, you get a glimpse into what is desirable to that individual.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr.Married

Diana7 said:


> I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.




so...completely....not....true

This is the standard that woman give themselves ....and then blame it on men.


Sounds like your the perfect customer for media and marketing influence.


----------



## Mr.Married

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Um, maybe in your country. In America we like em "thick" the stick thin woman has been out for a decade or better now.
> 
> Btw, you two just built a 5'3" 80 pound woman. Uh, no thanks. That's getting into fetish territory.


I'd date her .... as long she could handle me taking her to McDonalds for a cheese burger 5 times a day.


----------



## farsidejunky

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


As a man strikingly average in most departments (including height), I managed to date a couple of women taller than me.

Something about tall adds to the allure.

That said, F2 is five foot three, making her four inches shorter than me.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Um, maybe in your country. *In America we like em "thick" * the stick thin woman has been out for a decade or better now.
> 
> Btw, you two just built a 5'3" 80 pound woman. Uh, no thanks. That's getting into fetish territory.


Well, I am American. I am 5' 8". At 120, I had men LINING UP. Well I am actually not sure. I got tons of responses on OLD. DH said men "approached" and "flirted" all the time. But I was oblivious. I am good at oblivious. So much for "men" being the same kind of homogeneous group as "women".


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Shorter women are more fertile or atleast perceived as more fertile. Evolutionary cue.


What a bunch of BS


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

NobodySpecial said:


> Well, I am American. I am 5' 8". At 120, I had men LINING UP. Well I am actually not sure. I got tons of responses on OLD. DH said men "approached" and "flirted" all the time. But I was oblivious. I am good at oblivious. So much for "men" being the same kind of homogeneous group as "women".


I forget when you are discussing gender norms and trends, you have to add precursors or someone takes exception. Oh wait, did I say gender? I mean that is to say biological male and biological female. Or is it cis gender heterosexual biological male and cis gender heterosexual biological female? I don't want to offend anyone here. 

"Men like big round asses."

"I'm a woman with a tiny rear end and stick thin legs and I get hit on all the time! So much for your nonsense broad brushing that men are all the same opinion!"

"Yes, I'm sorry. Most men find a nice round ass to be very attractive but some guys do like petite woman as well and some guys like the BBWs too and some guys like all 3"


----------



## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> I think it's universal (or at least mostly so) on dating sites as opposed to real life.
> 
> Because people are advertising what they're looking for rather than screening, you get a glimpse into what is desirable to that individual.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


OLD is to dating adults what "build-a-bear" is to little kids. Except with build-a- bear, the kids leaves a whole lot happier than when he/she walked in. Not so much with OLD.


----------



## Lila

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, maybe in your country. *In America we like em "thick" *the stick thin woman has been out for a decade or better now.
> 
> Btw, you two just built a 5'3" 80 pound woman. Uh, no thanks. That's getting into fetish territory.
Click to expand...

Hasn't been my experience as a single.

Sincerely,

A "thick" woman with a big ass living in America.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> OLD is to dating adults what "build-a-bear" is to little kids. Except with build-a- bear, the kids leaves a whole lot happier than when he/she walked in. Not so much with OLD.


:rofl:


----------



## Mr.Married

TheDudeLebowski said:


> some guys like all 3"


And some all three at once :surprise:


----------



## Mr. Nail

I believe the saying, "keep the meat, toss the bones" , was driven out of common use by offended women.


----------



## Lila

TheDudeLebowski said:


> *I forget when you are discussing gender norms and trends, you have to add precursors or someone takes exception. *Oh wait, did I say gender? I mean that is to say biological male and biological female. Or is it cis gender heterosexual biological male and cis gender heterosexual biological female? I don't want to offend anyone here.


If you're going to add precursors, then make sure to do it right



> Men like big round asses."
> 
> "I'm a woman with a tiny rear end and stick thin legs and I get hit on all the time! So much for your nonsense broad brushing that men are all the same opinion!"
> 
> "Yes, I'm sorry. *SOME* men find a nice round ass to be very attractive but some guys do like petite woman as well and some guys like the BBWs too and some guys like all 3"


I fixed it for you.


----------



## Married but Happy

To me, "hot" usually means high maintenance - they have to work hard to be hot. I interpret hot as meaning they put a lot of effort into their appearance and clothing, as well as projecting a sexy attitude. I rarely find that appealing.

I prefer women whom _I_ think are pretty, with a natural warmth to their personality. I also highly value intelligence and pragmatism. Sure, I'd date a hot woman if she seemed truly interested in me, but she'd have to have these other traits as well if I were to continue dating her.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> OK sounds sort of a dumb question, but how many men consider a woman's appearance to be the top priority in how desirable she is as a date? Here I'm not talking about someone not being horrible looking - but how desirable is it to date top 1/1000, rather than the top 1/2 (in the age range the you are interested in)?


The story of what motivates a person to go on a first date is teeny. It could be the boobs, butt, hair, funny story... whatever. It is a very small story with a lot of different options. But that is what they are. Just some options on a check sheet. Looks are going to be on many, many people's check sheet. The story of what makes a person't heart, body and mind sing is a totally different story.


----------



## Spicy

*Re: How many men want "hot" wome*

I just think that looks are indeed so deceiving. Since I married so young, I don’t think I knew for sure where I would fall in this whole conversation y’all are having. I’m still not sure, but here is one thing I learned. When I divorced I started OLD.

I didn’t have pictures on my profile because I wanted to see who had the balls to talk to me without seeing me first. Once I would send them a picture, I kept getting accused of the pictures not being really me, or that they must not have been current, they are doctored, blah blah blah. I was like, what the heck are these guys problems? I’m me...I’m just a normal girl! I don’t even know how to doctor pictures! Lol.

When my H later told me what his first impression of me was when I walked in the restaurant, it kind of hurt my feelings. The words he used were “snob, high maintenance, spoiled, thinks your all that, rich *****.” So the visual I presented to him was all those things, and that this was going to be a miserable date because I was so “out of his league”. 

Thankfully, he immediately followed that up with “as soon as we started to talk I knew I was wrong”. 

Now...I know “hot” wasn’t part of the words he used. What I may appear to be and who I am are extremely different. He was the first person to ever describe me with those negative words. Some may may have used ‘hot’ instead. All I could think was...how did I not know I came across as this unapproachable?!? How many people have I missed out on friendships with because of how I appear? So in reading this thread, it’s brought those feelings back up. 

I know this wasn’t the point of the thread, but always give people a chance, even if they visually aren’t what you think you want or can get. You could miss out on a great person.

PS- I may not be hot, but I sure am @Spicy! >


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: How many men want "hot" wome*



Spicy said:


> I just think that looks are indeed so deceiving. Since I married so young, I don’t think I knew for sure where I would fall in this whole conversation y’all are having. I’m still not sure, but here is one thing I learned. When I divorced I started OLD.
> 
> I didn’t have pictures on my profile because I wanted to see who had the balls to talk to me without seeing me first. Once I would send them a picture, I kept getting accused of the pictures not being really me, or that they must not have been current, they are doctored, blah blah blah. I was like, what the heck are these guys problems? I’m me...I’m just a normal girl! I don’t even know how to doctor pictures! Lol.
> 
> When my H later told me what his first impression of me was when I walked in the restaurant, it kind of hurt my feelings. The words he used were “snob, high maintenance, spoiled, thinks your all that, rich *****.” So the visual I presented to him was all those things, and that this was going to be a miserable date because I was so “out of his league”.
> 
> Thankfully, he immediately followed that up with “as soon as we started to talk I knew I was wrong”.
> 
> Now...I know “hot” wasn’t part of the words he used. What I may appear to be and who I am are extremely different. He was the first person to ever describe me with those negative words. Some may may have used ‘hot’ instead. All I could think was...how did I not know I came across as this unapproachable?!? How many people have I missed out on friendships with because of how I appear? So in reading this thread, it’s brought those feelings back up.
> 
> I know this wasn’t the point of the thread, but always give people a chance, even if they visually aren’t what you think you want or can get. You could miss out on a great person.
> 
> PS- I may not be hot, but I sure am @Spicy! >


I think you are hot AND spicy. And I don't even know what you look like!


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Lila said:


> If you're going to add precursors, then make sure to do it right
> 
> 
> 
> I fixed it for you.


The majority of men, not some. What do you think a man's obsession with yoga pants is all about? Thank goodness ladies find them comfortable.


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The majority of men, not some. What do you think a man's obsession with yoga pants is all about? Thank goodness ladies find them comfortable.


I am only stating this not to argue that you don't have the right to whatever opinion that you want about "how many" men want certain asses. For myself, my commenting is to relate that 

a) I don't agree with your assessment. 
b) The need to have all the other guys want the same things you want is just weird.


----------



## Deejo

minimalME said:


> I agree it is subjective.
> 
> Dudley Moore was a hobbit. He was sweet and cute and probably comfortable and safe. He'd be a good friend.


Between having adventures, and saving the world, give them another 3 feet of height, and every female in Middle Earth would want a hobbit.


----------



## minimalME

I agree. Dying/styling hair, lots of make-up, heels, tons of fancy clothes and jewelry. I don't do any of that. 



Married but Happy said:


> To me, "hot" usually means high maintenance - they have to work hard to be hot. I interpret hot as meaning they put a lot of effort into their appearance and clothing, as well as projecting a sexy attitude.


----------



## minimalME

The adventures I'd totally take. And you're right - another 3 feet would help a lot.

But otherwise, I'd rather hang out with the elves. 




Deejo said:


> Between having adventures, and saving the world, give them another 3 feet of height, and every female in Middle Earth would want a hobbit.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> I am only stating this not to argue that you don't have the right to whatever opinion that you want about "how many" men want certain asses. For myself, my commenting is to relate that
> 
> a) I don't agree with your assessment.
> b) The need to have all the other guys want the same things you want is just weird.


I'm more comfortable with the blanket statement, "All men have wanted a hot woman, imaginary or otherwise."


----------



## Ursula

Looks are all in the eye of the beholder, so I guess that depends on what a man considers to be “hot”. In my OLD experiences though, I would say that about 95% of them want someone they’d consider hot/sexy, and I know that I don’t fit into that category. Or, I’m not that way, according to society’s definition. I fall into the “cute” category, mostly because I’m a bit on the smaller side (think weight, height, breast size), and also don’t look my age at all. And, most men don’t want “cute”; they want “gorgeous”. Breast augmentation and blonde hair dye, here I come!!! Kidding, kidding 100%.


----------



## NobodySpecial

minimalME said:


> The adventures I'd totally take. And you're right - another 3 feet would help a lot.
> 
> But otherwise, I'd rather hang out with the elves.


Height shmight. I don't care about height. It's the HAIR!


----------



## Deejo

And to bolster @Red Sonja 's and @Blondilocks point ...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/charlize-theron-says-she-wants-235807476.html

She's 5'10", confident, accomplished, and unless you are just being contrary; beautiful.


----------



## Betrayedone

I have been dating an Amazon blond for 5 years now and I like it. She's 5'10", got a wingspan like a California condor, long legs, long neck. Same size as me when she wears heels but doesn't bother me a bit. I'm an honest 6'0"


----------



## Lila

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to add precursors, then make sure to do it right
> 
> 
> 
> I fixed it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of men, not some. * What do you think a man's obsession with yoga pants is all about? * Thank goodness ladies find them comfortable.
Click to expand...

A glimpse at the occasional camel toe??


----------



## Betrayedone

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The majority of men, not some. What do you think a man's obsession with yoga pants is all about? Thank goodness ladies find them comfortable.


Yoga pants are to be revered or outlawed depending on body type..........just saying........


----------



## Betrayedone

Lila said:


> A glimpse at the occasional camel toe??


I'm a big fan........


----------



## farsidejunky

I can't believe she was not on the approved-to-stray list I worked up with F2. Smoking hot.

Guess we will have to discuss that tonight...



Deejo said:


> And to bolster @Red Sonja 's and @Blondilocks point ...
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/charlize-theron-says-she-wants-235807476.html
> 
> She's 5'10", confident, accomplished, and unless you are just being contrary; beautiful.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Betrayedone said:


> Yoga pants are to be revered or outlawed depending on body type..........just saying........


DH thinks yoga pants are just BAD no matter what you look like.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> A glimpse at the occasional camel toe??


Uh, no. It's the other side, Lila...


----------



## personofinterest

minimalME said:


> I agree. Dying/styling hair, lots of make-up, heels, tons of fancy clothes and jewelry. I don't do any of that.


This post gave me a good belly laugh. I dye my hair because the real color is gray mixed with dishwanter and* I* don't like it. I wear makeup to work every day because I don't want to be a corpse. I don't always wear heels, but I do usually. My clothes aren't fancy as in expensive, but I try to dress well. I buy most of them after season on clearance or from Target lol. 

It takes me 45 minutes at the most to get ready in the morning from stepping into the shower to walking out the door. That includes sitting to eat my bowl of oatmeal.

Yah.....I'm totally a high maintenance dive lol

People crack me up.

Generalizations are ignorant.


----------



## farsidejunky

NobodySpecial said:


> DH thinks yoga pants are just BAD no matter what you look like.


----------



## Ursula

personofinterest said:


> This post gave me a good belly laugh. I dye my hair because the real color is gray mixed with dishwanter and* I* don't like it. I wear makeup to work every day because I don't want to be a corpse. I don't always wear heels, but I do usually. My clothes aren't fancy as in expensive, but I try to dress well. I buy most of them after season on clearance or from Target lol.
> 
> It takes me 45 minutes at the most to get ready in the morning from stepping into the shower to walking out the door. That includes sitting to eat my bowl of oatmeal.
> 
> Yah.....I'm totally a high maintenance dive lol
> 
> People crack me up.
> 
> Generalizations are ignorant.


Oh my God, you just described me, except change 45 minutes to about 35 minutes, and I take my breakfast to work because I choose to catch an additional 10-15 minutes of "beauty" sleep, bwahahaha!


----------



## NobodySpecial

hmmm. Who is the governing body of the "man card"?


----------



## minimalME

Well, there's a huge difference between looking presentable and being high maintenance. A little goes a long way. 




personofinterest said:


> This post gave me a good belly laugh. I dye my hair because the real color is gray mixed with dishwanter and* I* don't like it. I wear makeup to work every day because I don't want to be a corpse. I don't always wear heels, but I do usually. My clothes aren't fancy as in expensive, but I try to dress well. I buy most of them after season on clearance or from Target lol.
> 
> It takes me 45 minutes at the most to get ready in the morning from stepping into the shower to walking out the door. That includes sitting to eat my bowl of oatmeal.
> 
> Yah.....I'm totally a high maintenance dive lol
> 
> People crack me up.
> 
> Generalizations are ignorant.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

NobodySpecial said:


> I am only stating this not to argue that you don't have the right to whatever opinion that you want about "how many" men want certain asses. For myself, my commenting is to relate that
> 
> a) I don't agree with your assessment.
> b) The need to have all the other guys want the same things you want is just weird.



Why does a woman take offense to my opinion and have no problem with this one?



Ursula said:


> Looks are all in the eye of the beholder, so I guess that depends on what a man considers to be “hot”. In my OLD experiences though, I would say that about 95% of them want someone they’d consider hot/sexy, and I know that I don’t fit into that category. Or, I’m not that way, according to society’s definition. I fall into the “cute” category, mostly because I’m a bit on the smaller side (think weight, height, breast size), and also don’t look my age at all. And, *most men don’t want “cute”; they want “gorgeous”.* Breast augmentation and blonde hair dye, here I come!!! Kidding, kidding 100%.


When the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you go silent.


----------



## Spicy

personofinterest said:


> This post gave me a good belly laugh. I dye my hair because the real color is gray mixed with dishwanter and* I* don't like it. I wear makeup to work every day because I don't want to be a corpse. I don't always wear heels, but I do usually. My clothes aren't fancy as in expensive, but I try to dress well. I buy most of them after season on clearance or from Target lol.
> 
> It takes me 45 minutes at the most to get ready in the morning from stepping into the shower to walking out the door. That includes sitting to eat my bowl of oatmeal.
> 
> Yah.....I'm totally a high maintenance dive lol
> 
> People crack me up.
> 
> Generalizations are ignorant.


AGREED!!!
See and my parents raised me to look nice when you go out of the house. Where we moved too, NO ONE does that. So I stand out terribly from what I hear.

At home...forget it. I’m comfortable. Give me bare feet and comfy clothes and a sports bra and I’m good. No matter what, I usually am ready in 1/2 and hour, and I never spend more than an hour getting ready...like even on my wedding day! I’m super low maintenance in all reality. And a big goof. I have so many flaws it’s insane, but I’m hella fun LOL!


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Why does a woman take offense to my opinion and have no problem with this one?


I don't know what Ursula thinks. I am not offended by your opinion. It is clear you don't get my point.



> When the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you go silent.


When what shoe is on what foot? That I chose not to reply to someone else with whom I don't agree?


----------



## Buddy400

Diana7 said:


> I think its more the case that most men will reject a women who isn't stick thin.


When this topic has come up before, I think that most men have expressed a preference for women who are not stick thin.

I think the pressure to be stick thin comes primarily from other women and the fashion industry.


----------



## Ursula

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursula View Post
Looks are all in the eye of the beholder, so I guess that depends on what a man considers to be “hot”. In my OLD experiences though, I would say that about 95% of them want someone they’d consider hot/sexy, and I know that I don’t fit into that category. Or, I’m not that way, according to society’s definition. I fall into the “cute” category, mostly because I’m a bit on the smaller side (think weight, height, breast size), and also don’t look my age at all. And, most men don’t want “cute”; they want “gorgeous”. Breast augmentation and blonde hair dye, here I come!!! Kidding, kidding 100%.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> *When the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you go silent.*


I don't; I just joined this conversation! And just so you know, I don't want a "gorgeous" man, and usually bypass the very chiselled gym rats on the OLD sites for a couple reasons: 1. I'm not a gym rat and while I'm petite, I'm not in the best shape I could be in, and 2. I would imagine that they would want someone who maintains a similar lifestyle to theirs.

So, I tend to go for men who keep themselves healthy, and who take care of themselves to the best of their ability. My current interest is slim and trim, bald and nerdy, his beard is salt and pepper, is a Dad of 2 (1 biological; 1 adopted) and he had a heart attack at age 41. None of the above is a concern of mine, and I personally think he's a great-looking man because of who he is personality-wise, the fact that he's always pleasant and smiling, and he's treated me with kindness from the get-go.

So please, don't lump all of us women under the same category. Yes, I lumped 95% of OLD men into it, but that's just given my experiences online thus far. The good ones are few and far between.


----------



## EllisRedding

Of course what constitutes "hot" is subjective. I have seen women who at first glance look amazing (9 or 10). However, once they open their mouth or you get a sense of their personality, it quickly drops down to a 5 lol. Likewise, met women who might have been lower on the scale, but their personality quickly ramps them up the hot scale.

One thing I can say, on Instagram (since anyone can be a model there), I see quite a few hot women (thanks in part to lighting, filters, surgeons, etc..). Honestly, all I can think of (outside of the initial admiring their hotness) is that they must require a ton of work to be in a relationship with them, something that would get old quick.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Ursula said:


> I don't;


I think he was replying to me as to why I did not reply to you when he thinks you said the same thing he thinks I objected to. Since he did not get my point in the first place, I doubt he will get why I did not reply to you!

And I'm my own grandpa.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: How many men want &quot;hot&quot; women*



EllisRedding said:


> Of course what constitutes "hot" is subjective. I have seen women who at first glance look amazing (9 or 10). However, once they open their mouth or you get a sense of their personality, it quickly drops down to a 5 lol. Likewise, met women who might have been lower on the scale, but their personality quickly ramps them up the hot scale.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I can say, on Instagram (since anyone can be a model there), I see quite a few hot women (thanks in part to lighting, filters, surgeons, etc..). Honestly, all I can think of (outside of the initial admiring their hotness) is that they must require a ton of work to be in a relationship with them, something that would get old quick.


This.

My wife is cute to look at...until she smiles. It is so genuine, uninhibited, and electric that it makes her gorgeous....stunning. This makes me seek as many opportunities as possible to trigger her smile. I don't think she minds too much...

I couldn't have known that upon first meeting her. It didn't come out until our first date. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

*Re: How many men want &quot;hot&quot; women*



farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> My wife is cute to look at...until she smiles. It is so genuine, uninhibited, and electric that it makes her gorgeous....stunning. This makes me seek as many opportunities as possible to trigger her smile. I don't think she minds too much...
> 
> I couldn't have known that upon first meeting her. It didn't come out until our first date.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Ok. DAAAAAAW!


----------



## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> A glimpse at the occasional camel toe??
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, no. It's the other side, Lila...
Click to expand...

I don't know far. Considering that most American women are obese and/or overweight (myself included), I have to think it's the camel's toe and not it's humps that gets the boys' attention.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> I don't know far. Considering that most American women are obese and/or overweight (myself included), I have to think it's the camel's toe and not it's humps that gets the boys' attention.


Two words:









Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Livvie

As an aside, I've heard men I know (friends, aquaintances) make comments about a female who is "hot". Almost always, the proclaimed hot woman is a woman with dyed or highlighted hair, manicured, high heels, expensive clothes, jewelry, and a LOT of (sometimes expertly applied) make up. If they saw her with natural hair and no makeup, in jeans and sneakers and a regular shirt they probably wouldn't look twice at her. Might even be very shocked.

Right or wrong, a few times it's changed my opinion of the man making the hot judgment that they can't see beyond the totally superficial stuff and are so hugely swayed by it---that she's really not that hot!!


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: How many men want &quot;hot&quot; women*



Livvie said:


> As an aside, I've heard men I know (friends, aquaintances) make comments about a female who is "hot". Almost always, the proclaimed hot woman is a woman with dyed or highlighted hair, manicured, high heels, expensive clothes, jewelry, and a LOT of (sometimes expertly applied) make up. If they saw her with natural hair and no makeup, in jeans and sneakers and a regular shirt they probably wouldn't look twice at her. Might even be very shocked.
> 
> Right or wrong, a few times it's changed my opinion of the man making the hot judgment that they can't see beyond the totally superficial stuff and are so hugely swayed by it---that she's really not that hot!!


There is definitely a difference between hot and beautiful.

I have this side of me that finds that trashy look hot. A female who would be fun to ravage...as long as I didn't have to listen to her talk afterwards.

Fantasies of a male...some things are perhaps better left unsaid. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Livvie said:


> As an aside, I've heard men I know (friends, aquaintances) make comments about a female who is "hot". Almost always, the proclaimed hot woman is a woman with dyed or highlighted hair, manicured, high heels, expensive clothes, jewelry, and a LOT of (sometimes expertly applied) make up. If they saw her with natural hair and no makeup, in jeans and sneakers and a regular shirt they probably wouldn't look twice at her. Might even be very shocked.
> 
> Right or wrong, a few times it's changed my opinion of the man making the hot judgment that they can't see beyond the totally superficial stuff and are so hugely swayed by it---that she's really not that hot!!


While that's not my taste, I admit a lot of guys do go in for that.

I don't fault you one bit for changing your opinion of such a man. I actually tend to (quietly) carry the same judgment. I'm not a big fan of superficiality.

As mitigation for those shallow men, I offer the following potential explanation. It may not be the dyed hair and artificial enhancements they are reacting to, but rather the impression (right or wrong), that a woman who goes to that much trouble to look 'hot' is going to be easy, or a tigress in bed, or any of a number of stereotypes. These are the women these men want to date but not take home to mother. When that time comes, it's back to the girl next door.

Personally, I've never differentiated between criteria for date vs mate. If she seem as potential for the latter, I wasn't going to put any time and effort into the former. 

And I've always thought natural was best. To me, the hottest woman is one who is comfortable rocking it in her own skin, not hiding behind products. 

After all, exactly what are you going to see when you roll over in the morning? That's more important than what you saw when you first turned out the lights.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Buddy400 said:


> When this topic has come up before, I think that most men have expressed a preference for women who are not stick thin.
> 
> I think the pressure to be stick thin comes primarily from other women and the fashion industry.


NO! Pink pill says that is NOT what men want. MEN WANT TWIGGY! 

No wait. That's wrong.


----------



## EllisRedding

Livvie said:


> As an aside, I've heard men I know (friends, aquaintances) make comments about a female who is "hot". Almost always, the proclaimed hot woman is a woman with dyed or highlighted hair, manicured, high heels, expensive clothes, jewelry, and a LOT of (sometimes expertly applied) make up. If they saw her with natural hair and no makeup, in jeans and sneakers and a regular shirt they probably wouldn't look twice at her. Might even be very shocked.
> 
> Right or wrong, a few times it's changed my opinion of the man making the hot judgment that they can't see beyond the totally superficial stuff and are so hugely swayed by it---that she's really not that hot!!


Now granted, the "hot" female you described is not my cup of tea. However, in general when we are talking about hot, a lot of it comes at first glance, and yes, meant to be very superficial (how could it not be, you are looking at someone you don't know and making a judgment). Naturally, in instances like this, someone who is "dolled up" is undoubtedly going to stand out from the crowd and draw more attention. I think most guys who do find your example "hot" understand this.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Lila said:


> I don't know far. Considering that most American women are obese and/or overweight (myself included), I have to think it's the camel's toe and not it's humps that gets the boys' *attention*.


"A man walks down the street
He says why am I short of attention
Got a short little span of attention
And wo my nights are so long" - Paul Simon, You can call me Al


----------



## Deejo

Livvie said:


> As an aside, I've heard men I know (friends, aquaintances) make comments about a female who is "hot". Almost always, the proclaimed hot woman is a woman with dyed or highlighted hair, manicured, high heels, expensive clothes, jewelry, and a LOT of (sometimes expertly applied) make up. If they saw her with natural hair and no makeup, in jeans and sneakers and a regular shirt they probably wouldn't look twice at her. Might even be very shocked.
> 
> Right or wrong, a few times it's changed my opinion of the man making the hot judgment that they can't see beyond the totally superficial stuff and are so hugely swayed by it---that she's really not that hot!!


Well, I think it's worth qualifying further.

If a man makes the observation and declaration: "Wow, she's hot!"

It's a snapshot. Not a static state of being. It isn't even intended to see beyond the superficial. In the case of many men, it is attraction to the superficial that assists in making the decision as to whether or not they will invest the effort in getting beyond that phase. Not telling you to not be bothered by it, but in contrast, your judgement of that man in that instance I'd argue is equivalent.

I think my wife is stunning, whether she is made up and dressed to the nines, or has just woken up with bed head.

But along those lines of what we perceive as 'hot' vs. what is packaged and marketed as 'hot', here you go: Pictures of women before, and after professional makeup

I'm not posting this to be provocative, or compare any of these women, but I do think it illustrates the point of being able to distinguish reality and fantasy.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I have seen many attractive women, thick, thin and in between. 

(within extreme bounds of course; morbid obesity or protruding ribs will never be sexy)

That said, it depends on whether or not the weight matches the body. We're all born with a physiology, but we can influence our physique. 

Some frames are just built to carry more, and a little more on them looks not only natural, but as a result, physically attractive. Some women will look just fine in a size 12.... if they're underlying physiology supports that. Many will look decidedly overweight. Conversely, an amazon who starves herself into a size 3 is going to look unhealthy.

Looking good, IMO, is largely about getting in sync with who we are physically. The most attractive weight for any individual is going to be the weight that best fits the frame. 

(I tend to have the same thoughts about hair color. For most of us, our hair color and skin tone are a natural match. That bleach blonde may look good from a distance, but when you get close and see the natural mismatch, suddenly it's not so pretty.... if you're actually paying attention beyond the superficialities)


----------



## farsidejunky

NobodySpecial said:


> NO! Pink pill says that is NOT what men want. MEN WANT TWIGGY!
> 
> 
> 
> No wait. That's wrong.


Source?



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## 2&out

Stereotypes are an ugly thing. Just because a lady does some extra to accentuate/modify what God gave her to look her best does not mean there isn't a stunning personality and genuine golden giving soul included. Profiling/assuming they are trying to be someone they are not or make up for some self perceived flaw in my experience is not/has not been true. 

I for one appreciate the effort and the rush/feeling of being in their presence.


----------



## personofinterest

minimalME said:


> Well, there's a huge difference between looking presentable and being high maintenance. A little goes a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> This post gave me a good belly laugh. I dye my hair because the real color is gray mixed with dishwanter and* I* don't like it. I wear makeup to work every day because I don't want to be a corpse. I don't always wear heels, but I do usually. My clothes aren't fancy as in expensive, but I try to dress well. I buy most of them after season on clearance or from Target lol.
> 
> It takes me 45 minutes at the most to get ready in the morning from stepping into the shower to walking out the door. That includes sitting to eat my bowl of oatmeal.
> 
> Yah.....I'm totally a high maintenance dive lol
> 
> People crack me up.
> 
> Generalizations are ignorant.
Click to expand...

 It might surprise you to know that your definition of what is too little or too much is not necessarily universal.


----------



## personofinterest

2&out said:


> Stereotypes are an ugly thing. Just because a lady does some extra to accentuate/modify what God gave her to look her best does not mean there isn't a stunning personality and genuine golden giving soul included. Profiling/assuming they are trying to be someone they are not or make up for some self perceived flaw in my experience is not/has not been true.
> 
> I for one appreciate the effort and the rush/feeling of being in their presence.


 Sometimes what we grew up with influences us as well. I grew up tow headed, as we call it down here. That means I had extremely blonde hair. I look best according to my skin tone with medium to light blonde hair. If I were to go natural with this Gray ish dish water color. I look very washed out.



Not that any of that matters. The caliber of man who would reject me for simply keeping the color that I already had most of my life anyway doesn't deserve me lol


----------



## personofinterest

And the woman who would judge me for that is not the kind of woman I would want to be friends with.


----------



## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> Two words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Hey, it's not a ghetto booty. It's a Whooty (White woman with a booty). I know. I belong to that group.


----------



## minimalME

:banghead:



personofinterest said:


> It might surprise you to know that your definition of what is too little or too much is not necessarily universal.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> Hey, it's not a ghetto booty. It's a *Whooty *(White woman with a booty). I know. I belong to that group.


Who says the net isn't educational? I learned a new word today! :nerd:


----------



## personofinterest

Lila said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, it's not a ghetto booty. It's a Whooty (White woman with a booty). I know. I belong to that group.
Click to expand...

 I to am a member of this illustrious group of women lol


----------



## NobodySpecial

Lila said:


> Hey, it's not a ghetto booty. It's a Whooty (White woman with a booty). I know. I belong to that group.


Wwwfa 

Me


----------



## 2&out

I am a bit sensitive about this subject and the unfair and "accepted" bull**** that exceptional looks can have. I am not all that great so have not had to deal with the ugliness of society towards this "curse". But I've been lucky and blessed. I married way over my head. I have an exceptionally beautiful and "hot" 20 year old daughter. Yes all Dads think that but I get told about it all the time - by everybody. Total strangers snap pictures and phone record her without her consent all the damn time. She has been treated very unfairly and frankly horribly at times. By teachers, potential and actual employers, boys/men -- and the worst are other girls/women. Total strangers are out and out rude to her. She's automatically judged stuck up, dumb, superficial, yada yada yada, I could make a LONG list. She has been basically forced to dress down to be treated half way decent.

Her career options are very limited. Many many businesses would/will not consider hiring her so far because it is automatically assumed she is trouble - or going to be -- or cause trouble -- or unable to do the job. I hope I have coached and guided her to one she is interested in and maybe turn the tables some. I pity the prosecutors / apposing lawyers she will face. Her looks automatically intimidate most (or they automatically discard her of having any ability) and with her brains and gaining confidence that is/has been very hard fought for, she's going to be a major force to deal with/against.

She deserves a fair shot - not automatic judgment. Does she have guys lining up asking her for a date ? No. She does get asked some though so it's not a total desert for her. Thank you God she isn't in any hurry to marry.

IMHO "average" looks is the place to be for the most life options and possibilities. Sorry - off my podium.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

If one has their health, they have it all. The rest is just different tool sets.

It's that simple.


----------



## bkyln309

2&out said:


> I am a bit sensitive about this subject and the unfair and "accepted" bull**** that exceptional looks can have. I am not all that great so have not had to deal with the ugliness of society towards this "curse". But I've been lucky and blessed. I married way over my head. I have an exceptionally beautiful and "hot" 20 year old daughter. Yes all Dads think that but I get told about it all the time - by everybody. Total strangers snap pictures and phone record her without her consent all the damn time. She has been treated very unfairly and frankly horribly at times. By teachers, potential and actual employers, boys/men -- and the worst are other girls/women. Total strangers are out and out rude to her. She's automatically judged stuck up, dumb, superficial, yada yada yada, I could make a LONG list. She has been basically forced to dress down to be treated half way decent.
> 
> Her career options are very limited. Many many businesses would/will not consider hiring her so far because it is automatically assumed she is trouble - or going to be -- or cause trouble -- or unable to do the job. I hope I have coached and guided her to one she is interested in and maybe turn the tables some. I pity the prosecutors / apposing lawyers she will face. Her looks automatically intimidate most (or they automatically discard her of having any ability) and with her brains and gaining confidence that is/has been very hard fought for, she's going to be a major force to deal with/against.
> 
> She deserves a fair shot - not automatic judgment. Does she have guys lining up asking her for a date ? No. She does get asked some though so it's not a total desert for her. Thank you God she isn't in any hurry to marry.
> 
> IMHO "average" looks is the place to be for the most life options and possibilities. Sorry - off my podium.


You are wrong about one thing. She will have a plethora of career opportunities she wont be qualified for because she has good looks. She can use that to her advantage but I have seen it in business over and over. The attractive ones get the promotions and the opportunities over similar employees. She just needs to use her looks as an advantage because it is.


----------



## EllisRedding

Speaking of "hot", apparently Charlize Theron is single and men are to blame for this as they don't have the pair needed to step up. 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...omebody-just-needs-to-grow-a-pair-and-step-up


----------



## 2ntnuf

When they are cold, you can hold them, give them hot chocolate, cuddle with them, and hug them. Making a very small joke and offering some truth for you, if you can see it.


----------



## Andy1001

EllisRedding said:


> Speaking of "hot", apparently Charlize Theron is single and men are to blame for this as they don't have the pair needed to step up.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...omebody-just-needs-to-grow-a-pair-and-step-up


She waited until I got married before announcing this. 
Just sayin........


----------



## Betrayedone

NobodySpecial said:


> DH thinks yoga pants are just BAD no matter what you look like.


That poor boy needs an attitude adjustment.........


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

bkyln309 said:


> You are wrong about one thing. She will have a plethora of career opportunities she wont be qualified for because she has good looks. She can use that to her advantage but I have seen it in business over and over. The attractive ones get the promotions and the opportunities over similar employees. She just needs to use her looks as an advantage because it is.


I gotta go with this answer.

It is what it is, it's the real world, saying different won't make it so.

Rarely will male or female get promoted as early in life into money positions without a good smile, body, hairstyle, and positive attitude. 

They have to have staying power, and smarts, but are wise to make use of the tools at hand.

No ones tools are better or worse than others' are, but are different. 

We each have to learn to wield wisely the tools we have.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Betrayedone said:


> That poor boy needs an attitude adjustment.........


Why? Viva la difference!


----------



## Lila

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If one has their health, they have it all. The rest is just different tool sets.
> 
> It's that simple.


You're a glass half full kind of person....a beautiful thing really..... BUT telling someone who isn't physically attractive that all they need is their health is kind of minimizing their experiences.


----------



## uhtred

Beautiful women have to be careful about how they use that beauty in the workplace. They need to be seen as competent women who happen to be attractive, rather than attractive women who might be competent. 





bkyln309 said:


> You are wrong about one thing. She will have a plethora of career opportunities she wont be qualified for because she has good looks. She can use that to her advantage but I have seen it in business over and over. The attractive ones get the promotions and the opportunities over similar employees. She just needs to use her looks as an advantage because it is.


----------



## Betrayedone

NobodySpecial said:


> hmmm. Who is the governing body of the "man card"?


Almost any man is capable......If one of us goes down the next in line can step in and take charge.....Kind of like combat......


----------



## Deejo

2&out said:


> I am a bit sensitive about this subject and the unfair and "accepted" bull**** that exceptional looks can have. I am not all that great so have not had to deal with the ugliness of society towards this "curse". But I've been lucky and blessed. I married way over my head. I have an exceptionally beautiful and "hot" 20 year old daughter. Yes all Dads think that but I get told about it all the time - by everybody. Total strangers snap pictures and phone record her without her consent all the damn time. She has been treated very unfairly and frankly horribly at times. By teachers, potential and actual employers, boys/men -- and the worst are other girls/women. Total strangers are out and out rude to her. She's automatically judged stuck up, dumb, superficial, yada yada yada, I could make a LONG list. She has been basically forced to dress down to be treated half way decent.
> 
> Her career options are very limited. Many many businesses would/will not consider hiring her so far because it is automatically assumed she is trouble - or going to be -- or cause trouble -- or unable to do the job. I hope I have coached and guided her to one she is interested in and maybe turn the tables some. I pity the prosecutors / apposing lawyers she will face. Her looks automatically intimidate most (or they automatically discard her of having any ability) and with her brains and gaining confidence that is/has been very hard fought for, she's going to be a major force to deal with/against.
> 
> She deserves a fair shot - not automatic judgment. Does she have guys lining up asking her for a date ? No. She does get asked some though so it's not a total desert for her. Thank you God she isn't in any hurry to marry.
> 
> IMHO "average" looks is the place to be for the most life options and possibilities. Sorry - off my podium.


I for one, appreciate your posting this. I know exactly what you are talking about. I've seen it, and it bothers me. Our organization promoted a young and very attractive woman into a VP of sales role. My team had meeting with her based on opportunities growing out of a M&A. After the meeting, when she had left, one of my guys started to say, "So how do you think ..." And I very abruptly said "DON'T. Just f*kng don't." Was obvious where he was going.

The link below alludes to the same, and I remember it was posted here a number of years ago ( I can't find the original thread) ... and even with the topic, people felt like it was ok to dump all over her and her whining about 'beauty privilege'.
Looks aren't everything, I know, I'm a model


----------



## Lila

bkyln309 said:


> You are wrong about one thing. She will have a plethora of career opportunities she wont be qualified for because she has good looks. She can use that to her advantage but I have seen it in business over and over. The attractive ones get the promotions and the opportunities over similar employees. She just needs to use her looks as an advantage because it is.


^this. I work in a male dominated industry. I'm always looking for young, smart, beautiful women to hire for sales. Those who use their looks to their advantage make big bucks.


----------



## bkyln309

uhtred said:


> Beautiful women have to be careful about how they use that beauty in the workplace. They need to be seen as competent women who happen to be attractive, rather than attractive women who might be competent.


They really dont have to worry. Men use strength or diligence and women use beauty. They will still have to develop skills at some point but their beauty is just as relevant as a man having a take charge attitude. You know how you have to use your tool appropriately.

If a woman is too "manly" or "take charge" she gets criticized for trying to be like a man. It is the most feminine of women who seem to exceed whom know how to leverage their beauty with their brains.


----------



## uhtred

I don't think its that simple. 

Diligence is shared by men and women. "Strength" if you take it as physical strength though might be a good comparison with beauty. The guy who is always helpful moving boxes etc will be appreciated, but he isn't going to be seen as VP material. Same for the woman who presents herself as beautiful 

Here by "presents" I mean how someone dresses etc. Its possible to be beautiful and dress in a neutral fashion, or to dress in a fashion that shows off that beauty. 




bkyln309 said:


> They really dont have to worry. Men use strength or diligence and women use beauty. They will still have to develop skills at some point but their beauty is just as relevant as a man having a take charge attitude. You know how you have to use your tool appropriately.
> 
> If a woman is too "manly" or "take charge" she gets criticized for trying to be like a man. It is the most feminine of women who seem to exceed whom know how to leverage their beauty with their brains.


----------



## HDC

Everything a man needs to know about looks and dating. 


https://youtu.be/incSwssUyp4


----------



## NobodySpecial

Betrayedone said:


> Almost any man is capable......If one of us goes down the next in line can step in and take charge.....Kind of like combat......


So... he can revoke your card for revoking his?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Lila said:


> Hey, it's not a ghetto booty. It's a Whooty (White woman with a booty). I know. I belong to that group.


They are called PAWGs.


----------



## 2ntnuf

HDC said:


> Everything a man needs to know about looks and dating.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/incSwssUyp4


lol


There is one for men by women.






Watch close or you might miss it. It's a knee slapper. lol 

Oh, and check out the red head's response.


----------



## bkyln309

uhtred said:


> I don't think its that simple.
> 
> Diligence is shared by men and women. "Strength" if you take it as physical strength though might be a good comparison with beauty. The guy who is always helpful moving boxes etc will be appreciated, but he isn't going to be seen as VP material. Same for the woman who presents herself as beautiful
> 
> Here by "presents" I mean how someone dresses etc. Its possible to be beautiful and dress in a neutral fashion, or to dress in a fashion that shows off that beauty.


Utred: I never met a C level women executive who was not polished in their dress. It could be plain but it was polished.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Ursula said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ursula View Post
> Looks are all in the eye of the beholder, so I guess that depends on what a man considers to be “hot”. In my OLD experiences though, I would say that about 95% of them want someone they’d consider hot/sexy, and I know that I don’t fit into that category. Or, I’m not that way, according to society’s definition. I fall into the “cute” category, mostly because I’m a bit on the smaller side (think weight, height, breast size), and also don’t look my age at all. And, most men don’t want “cute”; they want “gorgeous”. Breast augmentation and blonde hair dye, here I come!!! Kidding, kidding 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't; I just joined this conversation! And just so you know, I don't want a "gorgeous" man, and usually bypass the very chiselled gym rats on the OLD sites for a couple reasons: 1. I'm not a gym rat and while I'm petite, I'm not in the best shape I could be in, and 2. I would imagine that they would want someone who maintains a similar lifestyle to theirs.
> 
> So, I tend to go for men who keep themselves healthy, and who take care of themselves to the best of their ability. My current interest is slim and trim, bald and nerdy, his beard is salt and pepper, is a Dad of 2 (1 biological; 1 adopted) and he had a heart attack at age 41. None of the above is a concern of mine, and I personally think he's a great-looking man because of who he is personality-wise, the fact that he's always pleasant and smiling, and he's treated me with kindness from the get-go.
> 
> So please, don't lump all of us women under the same category. Yes, I lumped 95% of OLD men into it, but that's just given my experiences online thus far. The good ones are few and far between.



If you've read all my posts, I didn't lump women into anything. I lumped men together. I just used your post as an example that when women lump all men together, other women don't seem to care as much as when a man lumps men together. The only lumping I did was to say men like big butts lol. Then was corrected by someone saying "some men" and I corrected back saying "most men." Most men can like big butts and also like smaller ones too you know. When you say "some men" you must be talking about feet or something. Most men like a nice ass proportional to their body. If you are 5'7" 120lbs slinder framed women, you can still have a nice little rump back there that has some shape and curve to it. We like that too. We also like J-Lo butt. If you have literally nothing back there, like an 80 year old man's ass on a 25 year old woman, it's just not attractive. Sorry.


----------



## uhtred

Women have it particularly difficult because there are many different varieties of nice looking clothes. I think that for business they want clothes that are attractive, but not sexy. 

I'd say the same for men, but I think typical styles make this less of a problem for men. 




bkyln309 said:


> Utred: I never met a C level women executive who was not polished in their dress. It could be plain but it was polished.


----------



## Betrayedone

NobodySpecial said:


> So... he can revoke your card for revoking his?


No....if killed in the line of duty another man automatically takes charge


----------



## Spicy

What you guys are saying is absolutely true from what I have experienced.
When my makeup and hair is done, and I go out in a cute skirt with heels...almost every dude checks me out. H points it out constantly. I’m mostly oblivious as I am so into him, I’m not even looking around.

I can do the exact same trip, in a sweatshirt, hat and jeans and I am virtually invisible. INVISIBLE. Hardly any guys look or talk to me. It’s night and day.

Which is the real me? Both. I like to look nice when I go out, but if I’m working around the property etc, I look like a logger LOL. I’m totally fine with that as is my H.

There are some girls out there that may appear high maintenance, but they are simply dressed up right then for whatever reason. I can throw on my work clothes and a hat and probably walk by my mother without being recognized.

I suppose I could have been a total fake and always looked like that while dating. I just was me...dressed up for dates, casual when we were home. THAT is the real me.


----------



## Betrayedone

I have a better ass than J-Lo......yuck


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Betrayedone said:


> I have a better ass than J-Lo......yuck


Yeah, I never saw the appeal of that one.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Lila said:


> You're a glass half full kind of person....a beautiful thing really..... BUT telling someone who isn't physically attractive that all they need is their health is kind of minimizing their experiences.


Not intentionally so, but I see what you're saying.

My point is really, that I and many I'm sure, know someone that suffered catastrophic health issues, long suffering, then pass, and whether physically attractive or not, it becomes moot when on a good day only half is spent throwing up, or able to get out of bed.

And others ill in a day, pass the next, unexpectedly. 

Others still, instant heart attack, gone.

Everything is a perspective based on what one is going through that day or period of time.

If a doc gives the long face, and says you have 3 months left, looks are at the bottom of priorities. 

I spent a good period of time volunteering at a Ronald McDonald house, kids with cancer, mostly terminally I'll, and interacted with families coming in and out.

I'm 100% sure looks weren't anything worried about for those folks and the horror story they were going through. 

They would have traded anything for a little more time, or better outcomes. 

Really if one has their health they can plan a future, or at least not live in fear of pain and suffering then imminent death.

I guess one should, in my opinion, live in an attitude of thankfulness for what one has.

The above has touched our family personally through the years.

We're all a phone call away from tragedy from a senseless car wreck or other accident or Drs report.

And, we're all a phone call away from having a glass of tea with a dear friend or family member, or the next bbq, or news of new baby coming somewhere in the family, or enjoying the progress of our current projects in life. 

Sometimes we all flip flop on which things to focus on, granted.

😎 sorry for the long post.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yeah, I never saw the appeal of that one.












Yeah, I don't get it either


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Betrayedone said:


> No....if killed in the line of duty another man automatically takes charge


And that's the truth!

All throughout history, the front line of men go down, and the charge is expected to continue.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Yeah, I don't get it either


Me either.

However, if it was there, and I was single, I could be won over for a night. 

But there's a little too much there for my honest preference.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I wonder why there's no Instagram butt models that have nothing back there if so many men don't like a nice round ass.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski




----------



## uhtred

My wife calls certain types of clothing "mating plumage" 




Spicy said:


> What you guys are saying is absolutely true from what I have experienced.
> When my makeup and hair is done, and I go out in a cute skirt with heels...almost every dude checks me out. H points it out constantly. I’m mostly oblivious as I am so into him, I’m not even looking around.
> 
> I can do the exact same trip, in a sweatshirt, hat and jeans and I am virtually invisible. INVISIBLE. Hardly any guys look or talk to me. It’s night and day.
> 
> Which is the real me? Both. I like to look nice when I go out, but if I’m working around the property etc, I look like a logger LOL. I’m totally fine with that as is my H.
> 
> There are some girls out there that may appear high maintenance, but they are simply dressed up right then for whatever reason. I can throw on my work clothes and a hat and probably walk by my mother without being recognized.
> 
> I suppose I could have been a total fake and always looked like that while dating. I just was me...dressed up for dates, casual when we were home. THAT is the real me.


----------



## Talker67

I would much rather date a woman who acts sexy, and into me, than one who simply looks hot


----------



## 2ntnuf

TheDudeLebowski said:


>


If you look at her feet, you can tell which way she is headed. 


>


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

2ntnuf said:


> If you look at her feet, you can tell which way she is headed.
> 
> 
> >


I don't look at women's feet.


----------



## 2ntnuf

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I don't look at women's feet.


Oh, I see. :laugh:


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Yeah, I don't get it either


It doesn't help that it's attached to that face... and that voice.... and that personality. For me, the whole package is a non starter.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I don't look at women's feet.


That's freaking hysterical!


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Talker67 said:


> I would much rather date a woman who acts sexy, and into me, than one who simply looks hot


I'd rather have both, so thats what I looked for. Looks is very important for me to have any interest in the first place. Beyond that, if they have everything else then we have an actual prospect. Would I otherwise miss out on great women who I don't find attractive? Not really. I have several platonic relationships with really cool women. Some other guy with different attractions will find them to be a helluva catch. They just don't look good enough for me. Call me shallow, that's fine. 

I mean my wife is hot to me. She's probably in the traditional "cute" category. But my taste, an Asian or Hispanic woman who maybe is a 5 to most men is probably a 7 to me. Anyway I approached her because she is a dime to me. Otherwise, we wouldn't have ever been together. Sure someone's personality can take you from a 4 to a 6 easily. I just wouldn't consider anyone less than an accumulative 9. You can be a 10 that goes down to a 7 real easy. You can be an 8 that goes to a 10 real easy. A 4 in looks by my standards with a 10 personality is still just a 7 by my math. Doesn't make the cut for me personally. Although she will be a bomb ass wife and quite the looker to some other guy I'm certain and I wish them happiness all the same.


----------



## Lila

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not intentionally so, but I see what you're saying.
> 
> My point is really, that I and many I'm sure, know someone that suffered catastrophic health issues, long suffering, then pass, and whether physically attractive or not, it becomes moot when on a good day only half is spent throwing up, or able to get out of bed.
> 
> And others ill in a day, pass the next, unexpectedly.
> 
> Others still, instant heart attack, gone.
> 
> Everything is a perspective based on what one is going through that day or period of time.
> 
> If a doc gives the long face, and says you have 3 months left, looks are at the bottom of priorities.
> 
> I spent a good period of time volunteering at a Ronald McDonald house, kids with cancer, mostly terminally I'll, and interacted with families coming in and out.
> 
> I'm 100% sure looks weren't anything worried about for those folks and the horror story they were going through.
> 
> They would have traded anything for a little more time, or better outcomes.
> 
> Really if one has their health they can plan a future, or at least not live in fear of pain and suffering then imminent death.
> 
> I guess one should, in my opinion, live in an attitude of thankfulness for what one has.
> 
> The above has touched our family personally through the years.
> 
> We're all a phone call away from tragedy from a senseless car wreck or other accident or Drs report.
> 
> And, we're all a phone call away from having a glass of tea with a dear friend or family member, or the next bbq, or news of new baby coming somewhere in the family, or enjoying the progress of our current projects in life.
> 
> Sometimes we all flip flop on which things to focus on, granted.
> 
> 😎 sorry for the long post.


I totally get what you're saying but again telling someone who is craving love and affection that there are worse things in life such as having poor health or a terminally ill child is like telling someone who is hungry that there are people starving in some 3rd world country. Yes, there are but does that make the hungry person loose his/hunger? No.


----------



## EleGirl

Red Sonja said:


> :rofl: If this were true I'd have half the men on the planet panting after me. It didn't even happen when I actually WAS young and hot, in fact the brains were more boy-repellent than anything else ... all I had to do was answer the question "what's your major?" or "what kind of work do you do?" and they'd be off to the next female in the vicinity.
> 
> 
> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where were you meeting men?
> 
> Its also possible that you aren't attracted to the sort of men who are attracted to women for their brains. (Not a negative statement, just that people have preferences, and its possible to mostly desire a personality type that is not as likely to desire you).
> 
> 
> 
> Red Sonja said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everywhere ... it has happened consistently throughout my life. I'm not complaining about it and I've had my fair share of dates and relationships, I just find it funny that someone (on this thread) would say that brains are an important initial attraction factor for men because my experience has been the exact opposite.
> 
> For the person who asked ... I'm an electrical engineer. My younger sister is also an electrical engineer, with the same experiences with men and we joke about it often. Maybe @EleGirl can weigh in on this, I think she is also an engineer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

There are a lot of studies that show this... that in general men prefer women who are less intelligent than they are. 

An issue right now with young girls (middle & high school) is that they figure it out pretty quickly that boys don’t like smart girls. So, the girls ‘dumb down’ to attract boys. It’s one of the reasons that women don’t pursue STEM fields as much as the guys do in college. Instead women gravitate towards liberal arts majors. It’s also why women who don’t go to college shy away from the trades and other skilled type career paths.

I think that for most men, looks are the single most important attraction. After that, things like bad character, anger issues, very low or too high intelligence, etc., can disqualify a woman. 

When I was young and hot, I had no problem getting asked out. I just was not interested in taking anything further when most of them. One or two dates and that was it. I like highly intelligent men with a good sense of humor. That’s a small percentage of the population. Add to that the fact that men want less intelligent women…. 

Another interesting thing about intelligence is that children inherit their intelligence from their mother. So, if most men have children with women who are less intelligent than they are, that means that most children are less intelligent than their father. Talk about natural selection spiraling down the intelligence of family lines.
https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/228963


----------



## Blondilocks

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It doesn't help that it's attached to that face... and that voice.... and that personality. For me, the whole package is a non starter.



Are you saying her butt is too big? What's wrong with her face?

I don't understand the desire for the booty butt that farside posted because there are those thighs that go with it. It looks like they don't bother the guys, though. 

As for the makeup, manicure, perfume, jewelry etc. It can be done tastefully or garishly. When done tastefully, it says that the woman takes care of herself. It also tells a guy that this woman will be presentable to his boss, family and friends. In other words, she won't embarrass him.


----------



## Andy1001

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It doesn't help that it's attached to that face... and that voice.... and that personality. For me, the whole package is a non starter.


I’m trying to figure out where she is. Is that woman in front of her praying or is it an oriental restaurant, and if so what’s the story with the crucifix and what looks like a couple of bibles. 
And what do the signs on the wall say.
J-lo is hot and usually dresses well unless she is promoting a new song/video or clothing. She is a very powerful woman in the entertainment industry and very smart.It’s reckoned she’s worth almost half a billion dollars. 
She uses her looks to the best of her ability as has numerous people of both sexes before her. She reminds me of Madonna in this respect.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Blondilocks said:


> Are you saying her butt is too big? What's wrong with her face?
> 
> I don't understand the desire for the booty butt that farside posted because there are those thighs that go with it. It looks like they don't bother the guys, though.
> 
> As for the makeup, manicure, perfume, jewelry etc. It can be done tastefully or garishly. When done tastefully, it says that the woman takes care of herself. It also tells a guy that this woman will be presentable to his boss, family and friends. In other words, she won't embarrass him.


It's just all horribly unattractive... to me. I know many find her hot.

It's not just butt size, but rather the combination of size and shape and how it fits or doesn't fit with the rest. Again just my take.

But to be honest I find her grating. And that affects my perception of her physical appearance. I'm not good at keeping those two things separate.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Andy1001 said:


> I’m trying to figure out where she is. Is that woman in front of her praying or is it an oriental restaurant, and if so what’s the story with the crucifix and what looks like a couple of bibles.
> And what do the signs on the wall say.
> J-lo is hot and usually dresses well unless she is promoting a new song/video or clothing. She is a very powerful woman in the entertainment industry and very smart.It’s reckoned she’s worth almost half a billion dollars.
> She uses her looks to the best of her ability as has numerous people of both sexes before her. She reminds me of Madonna in this respect.


I never even noticed the background.


----------



## EllisRedding

One thing that always amuses me, if a dude is with someone hot (especially if she is perceived to be above his "level") then somehow she must be awesome and he can never leave her. There was a story in the news not too long ago about some professional gamer who dumped his girlfriend because he wanted to focus on his gaming (which is his career). Just so happened he was dating that Mexican weather chick who always wore tight dresses and had a nice ass. Apparently he was crazy for leaving someone that hot, and took a lot of slack for it from other guys. Just b/c she was hot doesn't mean that she was the right person for him. Maybe they weren't sexually compatible. Maybe they weren't compatible in other areas. Why would you want to be with someone you don't really care for just b/c they are pleasing on the eyes? It is as if just because she is hot, she must be this amazing sexual person, and he will never have it as good as he had with her lol.


----------



## EllisRedding

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It's just all horribly unattractive... to me. I know many find her hot.
> 
> It's not just butt size, but rather the combination of size and shape and how it fits or doesn't fit with the rest. Again just my take.
> 
> But to be honest I find her grating. And that affects my perception of her physical appearance. I'm not good at keeping those two things separate.


IDK, latina women are just flat out crazy, I rather avoid them so I would pass on J Lo  Plus, she is in the process of gathering all the infinity stones (in the shape of wedding rings)


----------



## Lila

EllisRedding said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's just all horribly unattractive... to me. I know many find her hot.
> 
> It's not just butt size, but rather the combination of size and shape and how it fits or doesn't fit with the rest. Again just my take.
> 
> But to be honest I find her grating. And that affects my perception of her physical appearance. I'm not good at keeping those two things separate.
> 
> 
> 
> IDK, latina women are just flat out crazy, I rather avoid them so I would pass on J Lo <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a> Plus, she is in the process of gathering all the infinity stones (in the shape of wedding rings)
Click to expand...

{Cough, cough} NO not ALL Latina women are crazy {cough, cough}


----------



## Betrayedone

J-Lo is a no go.......I'll take her friend Leah Remini any day.......


----------



## tech-novelist

Buddy400 said:


> I think it's very important to emphasize that, while men are generally not attracted to women smarter than them, *women are generally not attracted to men who are dumber than them*. If I had to bet, I'd say that the second is a bigger factor than the first.
> 
> Same with height. Women not being attracted to men shorter than them is probably a bigger factor than men not being attracted to women taller than them.


Correct, it is women who are the pickier ones, and therefore are the gatekeepers about who gets to date whom.


----------



## Andy1001

EllisRedding said:


> IDK, latina women are just flat out crazy, I rather avoid them so I would pass on J Lo  Plus, she is in the process of gathering all the infinity stones (in the shape of wedding rings)


You would pass on J-lo?
She speaks very highly of you.


----------



## tech-novelist

Red Sonja said:


> You guys need to pipe down about women and height requirements because you know damn well you do the same thing ... you pass on the amazons (like me) all the time. Sure, I’ve had men tell me they’d like to “climb me like a tree” or "throw them around in bed" but that’s all bravado for their posse, in the end the majority go for the 5’5” and under crowd.
> 
> Pot/Kettle much?


I'm trying to recall whether I ever dated someone taller than myself, but it's been a very long time since I was in the market.

Maybe I never did, but not because I wouldn't be interested. I don't have height restrictions.


----------



## EllisRedding

Lila said:


> {Cough, cough} NO not ALL Latina women are crazy {cough, cough}


Haha, I will give you a pass


----------



## EllisRedding

Andy1001 said:


> You would pass on J-lo?
> She speaks very highly of you.


I'm good, I've got enough crazy latina women in my life since day 1, don't need any more


----------



## uhtred

I think sometimes when dating people get hung up on averages. You are probably right that on average men prefer women who are attractive and don't act intelligent - but that can be true, but there still be a substantial number of men who ARE attracted to intelligent women. 

Then if women "dumb down" to be attractive to the male average, they make themselves less attractive to the (substantial) minority who do like intelligent women. (and those are probably the ones that would be the best match anyway). 

In addition to the problem with "averages", there are a lot of stereotypes that are just not true. So many women have been warned away from "nerds", with an image somewhere between "big bang theory" and unwashed kids living in their mothers's basements. In my experience nerds (male and female) do all sorts of extremely interesting things with their lives. 

Sadly just a some young men avoid intelligent women, some young women avoid intelligent men. I think both groups are worse off for it. 





EleGirl said:


> There are a lot of studies that show this... that in general men prefer women who are less intelligent than they are.
> 
> An issue right now with young girls (middle & high school) is that they figure it out pretty quickly that boys don’t like smart girls. So, the girls ‘dumb down’ to attract boys. It’s one of the reasons that women don’t pursue STEM fields as much as the guys do in college. Instead women gravitate towards liberal arts majors. It’s also why women who don’t go to college shy away from the trades and other skilled type career paths.
> 
> I think that for most men, looks are the single most important attraction. After that, things like bad character, anger issues, very low or too high intelligence, etc., can disqualify a woman.
> 
> When I was young and hot, I had no problem getting asked out. I just was not interested in taking anything further when most of them. One or two dates and that was it. I like highly intelligent men with a good sense of humor. That’s a small percentage of the population. Add to that the fact that men want less intelligent women….
> 
> Another interesting thing about intelligence is that children inherit their intelligence from their mother. So, if most men have children with women who are less intelligent than they are, that means that most children are less intelligent than their father. Talk about natural selection spiraling down the intelligence of family lines.
> https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/228963


----------



## tech-novelist

Deejo said:


> And to bolster @Red Sonja 's and @Blondilocks point ...
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/charlize-theron-says-she-wants-235807476.html
> 
> She's 5'10", confident, accomplished, and unless you are just being contrary; beautiful.


I'm sure she is "shockingly available" to non-famous, non-rich men. :wink2:


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

uhtred said:


> I think sometimes when dating people get hung up on averages. You are probably right that on average men prefer women who are attractive and don't act intelligent - but that can be true, but there still be a substantial number of men who ARE attracted to intelligent women.
> 
> Then if women "dumb down" to be attractive to the male average, they make themselves less attractive to the (substantial) minority who do like intelligent women. (and those are probably the ones that would be the best match anyway).
> 
> In addition to the problem with "averages", there are a lot of stereotypes that are just not true. So many women have been warned away from "nerds", with an image somewhere between "big bang theory" and unwashed kids living in their mothers's basements. In my experience nerds (male and female) do all sorts of extremely interesting things with their lives.
> 
> Sadly just a some young men avoid intelligent women, some young women avoid intelligent men. I think both groups are worse off for it.


It's all about market value and birds of a feather. A really smart guy isn't going to waste his time with some dumb broad. Some really intelligent woman isn't going to waste her time with some mouth breathing moron. Why would they? They have way more value in the open market. 

I say all this, but my wife has wasted nearly 20 years on me. Lol. What I lack in brains and looks, I make up for in stupidity, recklessness, and abrasive attitude. Maybe I'm a hard worker. She banked on my perceived trajectory. Boy I got her fooled! Lmao


----------



## colingrant

Because I had more than my share of hot to extremely hot women, I found that the hotness factor became less important to me. Kind of a been there and done that type of thing, which has its advantages because I was always able to walk away and not GAF how hot they were.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I wonder how many hard working, kind, intelligent, attractive women with a master's degree and tons of market value would go for some dumb guy who was addicted to hard drugs, dropped out of HS at 17, got a GED a year later, has no money, and is not tall or exceedingly attractive?


----------



## Red Sonja

colingrant said:


> Because I had more than my share of hot to extremely hot women, I found that the hotness factor became less important to me. Kind of a been there and done that type of thing, which has its advantages because I was always able to walk away and not GAF how hot they were.


Same experience here, except with hot men of course ... they all had one thing in common, they acted like they thought it was a privilege to be in _their_ presence. That gets old fast.


----------



## Wolfman1968

EllisRedding said:


> Just b/c she was hot doesn't mean that she was the right person for him. Maybe they weren't sexually compatible. Maybe they weren't compatible in other areas. Why would you want to be with someone you don't really care for just b/c they are pleasing on the eyes? It is as if just because she is hot, she must be this amazing sexual person, and he will never have it as good as he had with her lol.



Your post made me think of Hugh Grant sneaking out on Elizabeth Hurley to have a tryst with Divine Brown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estella_Marie_Thompson


----------



## Buddy400

Red Sonja said:


> Same experience here, except with hot men of course ... they all had one thing in common, they acted like they thought it was a privilege to be in _their_ presence. That gets old fast.


I was reading Cosmo once (in a doctor's office because they didn't have any Car and Driver or Sports Illustrated).

They had an article about why dating a hot guy wasn't all it was cracked up to be. 

One reason was that after having sex, *he* thought that the woman should be grateful.


----------



## tech-novelist

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I wonder how many hard working, kind, intelligent, attractive women with a master's degree and tons of market value would go for some dumb guy who was addicted to hard drugs, dropped out of HS at 17, got a GED a year later, has no money, and is not tall or exceedingly attractive?


Quite a few, unfortunately.

Especially if the guy is in prison.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia.


----------



## colingrant

Red Sonja said:


> Same experience here, except with hot men of course ... they all had one thing in common, they acted like they thought it was a privilege to be in _their_ presence. That gets old fast.


My most vivid hot woman experience was with a fiance' who I believe cheated on me, although I never confirmed it. She was super hot in her day and still is actually, cougar hot, if you will. Heads (men and women) turn when she enters a room. Independently wealthy and still single. She's older than me by at least 5-7 years, perhaps even 10. I never really knew her age, only that she was older. lol... she refused to tell me even to this day. Nonetheless, when we were engaged, she met a professional basket ball player. 

She told me he was pursuing her and was actually giddy about it. I found her posture entirely disrespectful, as it was void of relationship boundaries and full of eager curiosity on where this could go for her. I sniffed the whole thing out early. It was a power move intended to remind me how hot she was, that I was lucky to be with her and this is how things are to be. F THAT!!!!! That position was never one I adopted. E-V-E-R. I was experienced myself with these types, so I turned the tide on her and began asking if she'd had sex him *YET*, considering how she raved about his body, etc. 

As I expected, she got mad that not only was I not jealous (I actually was though) of her flirtations with an NBA player, but that I was equally giddy for her to give me the play-by-play details. Kind of like how females discuss these types of matters with gay male friends. My thinking was, if you thought so little of me to dangle flirtatious communications with another man in front of me, then I'm not going to give you the pleasure to see me squirm with discomfort of being belittled and disrespected. In fact I'm taking an opposite approach. 

I began bringing him up to her and asking if it (sex) had happened yet. This confused the hell out of her, so now, she's on her heels so to speak and I'm on equal footing with her in this mind game she's playing. It also made her mad, which told me this wasn't playing out as she intended.

She then proceeds to 180 me. The absolute kicker was me calling her and her not offering ANY discussion. Complete silence. The clincher was when I went to hug her one day her arms remained straight down. LOL... I got the message and disappeared. Very difficult to do, as I had been with her for nearly three years. I loved her, but chose to love myself more. Blocked her number, etc. 

Two months later she's stopping by my apartment at 6:00 AM multiple times to catch me at home and leaving notes on my door. My neighbors told me she was banging on the door and window waking them up, however as luck would have it, I was never there on the days she stopped by as I had started "seeing" another person and was spending the night elsewhere a few days per week.

I never returned her calls, so she finally reached me using someone else's phone and said her aunt had seen me out with another woman (which was correct, as I had moved on) and that's when she started coming by my apartment unannounced. Had the nerve to ask me who I'm seeing, with disgust. I didn't answer her, but asked her how's things coming with the NBA player. She goes off how it was just this and that. .... okay!!!!! 

This is followed with a requested meetup *to discuss our future.* I obliged by going to her apartment to discuss "us", knowing full well "us" no longer existed. I gave her a tight time frame for my visit to dissuade any sex possibility, which was her "go to" move to remedy previous issues between us. Worked ALL THE TIME early in our relationship. Surprisingly, she cried and said she had really messed up *this time.* I found this to be an interesting choice of words, because it implied she messed up a few times before me perhaps. 

Didn't matter though, as I was upward and onward. I loved this woman, but I chose to prioritize my dignity and self respect, which is why I'm sharing this story. When others see that you choose to surrender your self respect and dignity, they too will choose to disrespect you and help you lose it. Narcissist, unfaithful significant others, spouses and others whose view of themselves is distorted beyond healthy, reasonable relationship standards will take your self respect and dignity if you don't value and protect it.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

tech-novelist said:


> Quite a few, unfortunately.
> 
> Especially if the guy is in prison.
> 
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia.


It's fortunate for us guys tho. At least I was crafty enough to avoid any jail time or a criminal record of any kind. And I'm not as bad as that link describes lol.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Lila said:


> I totally get what you're saying but again telling someone who is craving love and affection that there are worse things in life such as having poor health or a terminally ill child is like telling someone who is hungry that there are people starving in some 3rd world country. Yes, there are but does that make the hungry person loose his/hunger? No.


 @Lila

Respectfully, I'd have to say you don't get it.

If you're comparing ones craving for live and affection with the knowledge you have a terminally ill child (of any age), or immediate family member. 

Or, equating to finding out and going through catastrophic health issues, painful treatment then death.

And there's no analogy to the third world starving people vs the health analogies.

I don't know if you've never experienced these issues or what, but the initial differences are:

One can work on things to improve live and affection desires if one first has some kind of future.

And

If one isn't immediately putting first priorities first, like treating your child with life threatening issues like cancer etc.

If


----------



## Personal

@Ragnar Ragnasson My wife had a potential cancer scare,last year when things were found in her breasts last year. She also had one lobe of her thyroid removed around that time, because it was cutting off her airway.

We have a teenage daughter suffering in the grip of a terrible mental illness, with the highest mortality rate.

Likewise 18 years ago I almost died, the head surgeon who operated on me said "I shouldn't have survived".

There is so much more that's tough that I have experienced, yet I feel @Lila is on the mark with what she is saying. And will also add that through all of that, I like that my wife was hot when she was young and still is for her age, and it does matter to me just like other things matter.

Just because life is fragile and transitory, it doesn't mean other things don't matter.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

@Personal

I certainly don't disagree.

Just that when these threat of life and tragedies are going on, it's a matter of priorities or levels of critical concerns.


----------



## uhtred

But how many people would want to be with that guy at all, whether or not they were hot or intelligent if they didn't have any other postivie qualities





TheDudeLebowski said:


> I wonder how many hard working, kind, intelligent, attractive women with a master's degree and tons of market value would go for some dumb guy who was addicted to hard drugs, dropped out of HS at 17, got a GED a year later, has no money, and is not tall or exceedingly attractive?


----------



## Lila

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @Lila
> 
> Respectfully, I'd have to say you don't get it.
> 
> If you're comparing ones craving for live and affection with the knowledge you have a terminally ill child (of any age), or immediate family member.
> 
> Or, equating to finding out and going through catastrophic health issues, painful treatment then death.
> 
> And there's no analogy to the third world starving people vs the health analogies.
> 
> I don't know if you've never experienced these issues or what, but the initial differences are:
> 
> One can work on things to improve live and affection desires if one first has some kind of future.
> 
> And
> 
> If one isn't immediately putting first priorities first, like treating your child with life threatening issues like cancer etc.
> 
> If


Nope I get it. Things can always be worse but just because someone else has it worse or there is a potential for things to be worse, does that mean personal feelings on the matter are unjustified?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Lila said:


> Nope I get it. Things can always be worse but just because someone else has it worse or there is a potential for things to be worse, does that mean personal feelings on the matter are unjustified?



I see where there may be a slightly miscommunique (I hoped I spelled that right).

You see, I'm not saying one's need for love or affection is diminished by "others who have it worse" 

but if one's owns self has just found out they have cancer, or other life threatening tragedy or accident. 

But if we still don't quite agree, I'm still feelin' the love. 😊


----------



## Young at Heart

uhtred said:


> OK sounds sort of a dumb question, but how many men consider a woman's appearance to be the top priority in how desirable she is as a date? Here I'm not talking about someone not being horrible looking - but how desirable is it to date top 1/1000, rather than the top 1/2 (in the age range the you are interested in)?


I like "hot women" that is women that I find very attractive. Hot is not a BMI number based on height and weight. Hot is not perfect skin or make-up. Hot is not ****ty clothing. Hot to me is confidence and if I would want to spend a lot of time with a woman who is interesting, and most importantly finds me interesting.

A woman could be a little overweight, not dress well and still be HOT, very hot. 

All things being equal a woman who goes to the gym or has active sports hobbies will be hotter than a woman who doesn't. A woman who knows what clothes flatter her figure will be hotter than one that doesn't or doesn't go to the trouble. But, having a butt that you can bounce a quarter off of and that sticks out in a dress is not how this guy measures hotness.


----------



## AandM

EleGirl said:


> There are a lot of studies that show this... that in general men prefer women who are less intelligent than they are.
> 
> An issue right now with young girls (middle & high school) is that they figure it out pretty quickly that boys don’t like smart girls. So, the girls ‘dumb down’ to attract boys. It’s one of the reasons that women don’t pursue STEM fields as much as the guys do in college. Instead women gravitate towards liberal arts majors. It’s also why women who don’t go to college shy away from the trades and other skilled type career paths.
> 
> I think that for most men, looks are the single most important attraction. After that, things like bad character, anger issues, very low or too high intelligence, etc., can disqualify a woman.
> 
> When I was young and hot, I had no problem getting asked out. I just was not interested in taking anything further when most of them. One or two dates and that was it. I like highly intelligent men with a good sense of humor. That’s a small percentage of the population. Add to that the fact that men want less intelligent women….
> 
> Another interesting thing about intelligence is that children inherit their intelligence from their mother. So, if most men have children with women who are less intelligent than they are, that means that most children are less intelligent than their father. Talk about natural selection spiraling down the intelligence of family lines.
> https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/228963


Anecdotal sample of one.

In high school, I liked girls. Pretty much any girl who hit me upside the head with a brick to say they were interested in me. Which, honestly, wasn't often - go figure. Just before Christmas break, I was writing an article on the school newspaper Mac, and for some reason unknown to me, one particular girl was sitting next to me "helping" me. She had not taken any of the photos, interviewed anyone, etc.

We had done nothing but argue since we had known each other. Years. I could remark upon the pretty blue sky, and she would argue that it was more grey. Etc. Every time. Now, I know from my posting history that ya'll'd be surprised, but when someone challenges me, I tend to charge right in. So, bickering. I thought she was smart and pretty. I dated several other classmates, but we, we just fought. I didn't want to argue with her. I didn't pick most of these bicker sessions. I wasn't having fun. We just couldn't get along. No matter what I said, she had to prove herself smarter, better - right. I had come to think of her as someone who didn't like me.

So, she was sitting next to me, and suddenly lays her head on my shoulder. I did what any red-blooded male would do in that situation - I froze. _I had no idea what this meant with her_. She kept her head on my shoulder for a while - a classmate walked in, then loudly backed out. After a while, she got up, walked out of the computer closet, and pretty much never spoke to me again.

It isn't that I didn't like the smart girl. I thought she was very attractive, literate and erudite. She more than carried her weight in AP class labs and projects. 

I was just one of the stupid male hurdles she had to conquer to prove herself to whatever, until I suddenly wasn't. It was too late.

Take that as you will.


----------



## Taxman

The problem isn't so much seeking out the hot woman/man, it is the failure of the mate to look beneath the surface to see if the inside is as beautiful as the outside. My ex-business partner is just such a man. His wife, physically is still breathtaking, even in her late 50's (although my wife beats her by every measure I know). Problematically, she is a complete mess mentally. She is a spoiled little rich girl, and has been known to resort to violence to satisfy her whims and needs. Although she, to my knowledge, has not strayed, she has driven him around the bend with emotional extremes. As she ages her behavior worsens. Since we broke up our partnership about 11 years ago, I stopped being interested in the circus that made up this guy's day to day existence. She played a very important role in our split. She would interrupt our business day with errands for him to run to the exclusion of doing business and satisfying customers. When we started to bleed cash, I took my ball and bat and went home. Started doing some part-time tax work for a little boutique firm I knew.


----------



## ReformedHubby

AandM said:


> It isn't that I didn't like the smart girl. I thought she was very attractive, literate and erudite. She more than carried her weight in AP class labs and projects.
> 
> I was just one of the stupid male hurdles she had to conquer to prove herself to whatever, until I suddenly wasn't. It was too late.
> 
> Take that as you will.


I agree with this. When men talk about women, I honestly can't think of one time in all my years, where I have heard someone say, that girl would be a lot hotter if she wasn't so smart. I guess I need to know the definition of "smart", that folks feel intimidates guys. I definitely agree there is a disconnect, but I think our motives our misunderstood at times. I actually think adult men are all about a woman that brings something to the table. But.....I think younger men could honestly care less. Its not that they are intimidated by a smart woman. She could be a nuclear physicist for all they care so long as she is attractive. I think its more that they do not place as much value on it. I do feel that this does influence young women that are seeking attention to resort to other measures. But....I also think us guys make changes to ourselves for attention too.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

uhtred said:


> But how many people would want to be with that guy at all, whether or not they were hot or intelligent if they didn't have any other postivie qualities


So you are saying I have positive qualities? I appreciate that. Lol. Maybe I'm a beast in the sack.


----------



## just got it 55

Some women just have it

and IT can't be easily explained or defined

but when you see it you know it

55


----------



## Red Sonja

AandM said:


> It isn't that I didn't like the smart girl. I thought she was very attractive, literate and erudite. She more than carried her weight in AP class labs and projects.
> 
> I was just one of the stupid male hurdles she had to conquer to prove herself to whatever, until I suddenly wasn't. It was too late.


Not sure what your point is, but I hope you know that people who behave like the "smart girl" you spoke of have a personality problem that has nothing to do with being intelligent.


----------



## AandM

Red Sonja said:


> Not sure what your point is, but I hope you know that people who behave like the "smart girl" you spoke of have a personality problem that has nothing to do with being intelligent.


She wasn't the only woman to act like this. I dated several smart, accomplished women who, by any objective judgement, were smarter than me. I married one. I also had several relationships like the one I outlined.

Take it as you will. I don't think she had a personality problem; I think she had a chip on her shoulder.

Again, YMMV.


----------



## Red Sonja

AandM said:


> She wasn't the only woman to act like this. I dated several smart, accomplished women who, by any objective judgement, were smarter than me. I married one. I also had several relationships like the one I outlined.
> 
> *Take it as you will.* I don't think she had a personality problem; I think she had a chip on her shoulder.
> 
> Again, YMMV.


Gotcha ... good luck with your stereotyping.


----------



## OnTheFly

Red Sonja said:


> AandM said:
> 
> 
> 
> She wasn't the only woman to act like this. I dated several smart, accomplished women who, by any objective judgement, were smarter than me. I married one. I also had several relationships like the one I outlined.
> 
> *Take it as you will.* I don't think she had a personality problem; I think she had a chip on her shoulder.
> 
> Again, YMMV.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha ... good luck with your stereotyping.
Click to expand...

How is it stereotyping if he’s relating his experiences?


----------



## Blondilocks

AandM said:


> She wasn't the only woman to act like this. I dated several smart, accomplished women who, by any objective judgement, were smarter than me. I married one. I also had several relationships like the one I outlined.
> 
> Take it as you will. I don't think she had a personality problem; I think she had a chip on her shoulder.
> 
> Again, YMMV.


Would you like another take on that incident? It was you. She finally figured that you were either not interested or too dumb/immature/scared to know what to do. She had invested enough time in you and it was time to move on.


----------



## AandM

Red Sonja said:


> Gotcha ... good luck with your stereotyping.


I pointed out from the start that this was an anecdote, based on my personal experience. At what point did I say that all intelligent women were like this? I told my story, to illustrate that there are always at least two sides to every story. *But, hey, most men intimidated by smart, strong women. Right?*


----------



## AandM

Blondilocks said:


> Would you like another take on that incident? It was you. She finally figured that you were either not interested or too dumb/immature/scared to know what to do. She had invested enough time in you and it was time to move on.


You are entitled to your opinion. However, I had never, ever, expressed any interest in her. Her gesture, which was somewhat bold, came out of the blue. Dating her, from my point of view, would have been like dating a snapping turtle. Her following lack of engagement with me was not unwelcome.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

AandM said:


> So, she was sitting next to me, and suddenly lays her head on my shoulder. I did what any red-blooded male would do in that situation - I froze. _I had no idea what this meant with her_. She kept her head on my shoulder for a while - a classmate walked in, then loudly backed out. After a while, she got up, walked out of the computer closet, and pretty much never spoke to me again.
> 
> It isn't that I didn't like the smart girl. I thought she was very attractive, literate and erudite. She more than carried her weight in AP class labs and projects.


So an attractive, smart girl you admit you liked got tired of waiting for you to do it and made a move herself. Then you did what any yellow bellied man would do, and froze. My guess is she really liked you, but figured you either weren't into her, or you liked her too but were too scared to do anything about it. Either way, no wonder she ghosted.


----------



## Blondilocks

AandM said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. However, I had never, ever, expressed any interest in her. Her gesture, which was somewhat bold, came out of the blue. Dating her, from my point of view, would have been like dating a snapping turtle. Her following lack of engagement with me was not unwelcome.


So, you weren't interested. Please remind me of the point of your story? Sorry, I haven't had enough coffee (apparently).


----------



## AandM

TheDudeLebowski said:


> So an attractive, smart girl you admit you liked got tired of waiting for you to do it and made a move herself. Then you did what any yellow bellied man would do, and froze. My guess is she really liked you, but figured you either weren't into her, or you liked her too but were too scared to do anything about it. Either way, no wonder she ghosted.


Huh? At no point did I say that I was into her. I simply stated that I didn't dislike her, either. She had many traits that I would have otherwise found attractive, could I have been in her vicinity for more than five minutes without her criticizing something I said, usually in a conversation that she wasn't a part of.

The point to my story was that "Men only like bimbos, scareds of smart girls" can be look completely different from the other side of the street. 

The ghosting was welcome. I never sought out her company.


----------



## AandM

Blondilocks said:


> So, you weren't interested. Please remind me of the point of your story? Sorry, I haven't had enough coffee (apparently).


The point to my story was that "Men only like bimbos, scareds of smart girls" can be look completely different from the other side of the street.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I need some help here. Can someone here tell me what we mean in this thread by "smart". Are we talking about academically, do we mean accomplished or driven professionally, do we mean nerdy? I don't think most men are intimidated by any of that in personal relationships. But I do agree professionally that its rare that people will assume that a woman is the smartest person in the room, and when she proves it some may not like that. So I can see how it affects women professionally, depending on the field or level of position, but I don't see how it translates to personal relationships. 

Speaking only for myself of course my personal life is completely different than my professional life. Is it that you think a man that has a partner that is more accomplished might be envious? I am not trying to be obtuse here. Do people really think just because men prefer attractive over other qualities it means we want dumb too? I have also seen women enjoy "dumb" but attractive guys on occasion too, if its just a short time fling.


----------



## Blondilocks

AandM said:


> The point to my story was that "Men only like bimbos, scareds of smart girls" can be look completely different from the other side of the street.


OK, the point is this girl didn't behave that way because of her intelligence - she behaved that way because she was a jerk.


----------



## HDC

I have been around some women that were very intelligent and it made them attractive. I actually don’t care for the women that are considered the “air head” type, goofiness is just not attractive to me most of the time. I will say that I think the super intelligent, super successful women are sometimes their own worst enemy. I have been around a number of them that are real pains in the a$$. Their on success and superiority fuels this idea that they’re just above everyone else. I’m not saying men aren’t this way it just seems it’s more common in women. Those types can be hard to deal with in any setting, be it relationship or just in general.


----------



## Andy1001

HDC said:


> I have been around some women that were very intelligent and it made them attractive. I actually don’t care for the women that are considered the “air head” type, goofiness is just not attractive to me most of the time. I will say that I think the super intelligent, super successful women are sometimes their own worst enemy. I have been around a number of them that are real pains in the a$$. Their on success and superiority fuels this idea that they’re just above everyone else. I’m not saying men aren’t this way it just seems it’s more common in women. Those types can be hard to deal with in any setting, be it relationship or just in general.


When it comes to the type of woman who you are talking about there is one great leveler. Money. 
They can consider themselves the smartest person on the planet and act accordingly but if they find out they don’t earn as much as you then something inside them dies. Lol.


----------



## uhtred

Yes, or you are exaggerating the negative, or likely both. Being awesome in bed will make women come back for more, but how would they find out in the first place (unless there really are secret websites where women compare thier boyfriends....)





TheDudeLebowski said:


> So you are saying I have positive qualities? I appreciate that. Lol. Maybe I'm a beast in the sack.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

HDC said:


> I have been around some women that were very intelligent and it made them attractive. I actually don’t care for the women that are considered the “air head” type, goofiness is just not attractive to me most of the time. I will say that I think the super intelligent, super successful women are sometimes their own worst enemy. I have been around a number of them that are real pains in the a$$. Their on success and superiority fuels this idea that they’re just above everyone else. *I’m not saying men aren’t this way it just seems it’s more common in women.* Those types can be hard to deal with in any setting, be it relationship or just in general.



Really? I see this more in men than women. Especially younger men. Come to Dallas and hang around the popped collar, pastel shorts wearing guys that go to SMU. In fact, just spend an afternoon in uptown Dallas. The most self important person on this forum who projects an air of better than anyone here is a guy. 

Its probably 50/50 amongst men and women more than likely.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Really? I see this more in men than women. Especially younger men. Come to Dallas and hang around the popped collar, pastel shorts wearing guys that go to SMU. In fact, just spend an afternoon in uptown Dallas. The most self important person on this forum who projects an air of better than anyone here is a guy.
> 
> Its probably 50/50 amongst men and women more than likely.


As an SMU Law grad, I resent that stereotype, even if it is dead-on accurate.


----------

