# Am I doing something wrong, here?



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay, so we all know that even good marriages have their issues. There's a couple issues my husband and I have that are reoccurring: healthy communication when we're arguing, and meeting each others needs. Other than sex my husband loves me to make his lunch for him and give him massages. In the past I have failed to do these things continuously. Other than sex for me, I love having special things done for me, as big or as small as they may be. As long as he thought of it, it could be as small as a love letter and it would mean the world to me. 

So, about two months ago we had a chat and we both apologized for how lazy we had been in meeting the other persons needs. We promised to try harder, and although the change was slow coming, we both did start to change. 

Now to the issue at hand: I willed within myself that I would meet his needs whether I felt like it or not. I would either wake up with him at 5 am to make his lunch, or I would make it the night before. He's a buff guy, and I have tiny hands, and I have been giving him massages every other day. I had a UTI infection and was on antibiotics for a week, and had orders not to have sex. So, I made sure to give him BJ's and oral. Two days after I got off the antibiotics, we started putting sexual activity back into our schedule as often as we could. I've still been giving him massages, still been making his lunch. 

He, however, has no been reciprocating. I figured it was the stress of the UTI, so I waited and just met his needs as best I could. Still, nothing. I thought that he might be waiting for his paycheck. Nothing. So we argued today when he came home wanting to go to the gym. _That_ is one thing he absolutely never forgets. He has more enthusiasm to go to the gym than he has in anything else except for sex. So I got angry. 

After a fight we took some time to think, and I apologized for shouting at him. He admitted to being lazy when it comes to meeting my needs and apologized, and then acted like I should just get over it. 

Am I being irrational here? I mean, I know I'm not perfect but I feel like my needs aren't as much of a priority as his are to me. I have no problem going to the gym with him and working out. I used to love it. But when I started to see that he would forget about my emotional needs, but he made damn sure never to forget to go to the gym, I felt...well, neglected. 

Bear in mind, this cycle has existed since we got married. The only reason it hasn't been an even bigger issue is because we've had major financial issues before this that got in the way. Our financial issues have basically been solved, so this one has been at the forefront of our relationship. We've both made promises to each other that we didn't keep, but this time I kept my promises and I thought that would help him keep his. Nope. Makes me feel like cra*p. 

I honestly don't even know what to ask. I'm so tired of this. He promised me over a month ago that he would win me back, in a moment of heartfelt regret. I have yet to see that happen. I understand that life happens, and for a few days you can be distracted and things get in the way. But if you love someone and something is important to them, shouldn't you make the effort to get back into the groove of meeting their needs? I had a freaking UTI infection and couldn't take any pain medication for it cause I'd used too much of it before, and I _still_ made his lunch and gave him massages and sexual favors. 

Am I asking too much?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

....Did I not give enough info or something?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I think the board has been slow. I will add some input as I feel like I am in the same boat as you, with the exception of my latest post, our marriage was going great, things were improving, I was working tremendously on his top 5 needs and he was complimenting me on meeting them and I only got a little bit in return. Over the last week my hormones went nuts, my period was late, I was pmsing and suddenly it's like he is dr hyde because his needs are not being met. I also started a new medicine that has reduced my drive (i just lowered the dosage because it also screwed my ability to obtain an o) don't know if he was frustrated with that or not, but all his meeting of my needs went out the window about two weeks ago. He still does his usual little things like making coffee in the am, and his chit chats after work about his day, but when I try to start conversations not much, not much affection, again no romantic gestures at all, I only want small thoughtful gestures, not things.... so I feel you... it's like most men expect to have their needs met first and if not screw us, and God forbid we might need a little extra in the meantime, but if they need extra we have to bend over backwards and give and give and give.... or else they may start looking elsewhere (or we have that thought in our heads). But gifts are not the only way he can show his romance to you, and express that especially in financial troubles, and give him some examples. ALso on the UTI thing, many women are not told, you must pee after sex each time.... this helps keep the urether (sp) clean of any sex fluids to prevent UTI... I had a doc tell me this. I pass it on whenever I can because I have found most women do not know this. Force yourself to pee afterwards, even if it is just a couple drops, an ounce of prevent goes a long long way. 
I hear you though totally on the reciprocation of having needs met. I have noticed though when I meet my husbands needs he is happier, and does meet mine a little bit more, but getting that extra mile like when we were dating, just doesn't happen anymore.... I guess because he already (as my gma would say) "bought the cow and gets the milk"


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Your husband is treading on dangerous ground, and you need to take action to prevent this situation from deteriorating.

Read up on the "Walk Away Wife" syndrome. This will be you--3, 5, 15 years from now, if things do not change (and you have kids together). Or you will be smarter and leave as soon as he has failed, again, to maintain his commitment to you, and you do not have kids. (As an aside, if you do not have kids--don't. Not until he has shown that he takes your emotional needs seriously. Otherwise you will feel trapped).

If you tolerate his slipping into neglect, then he will continue to do it. If that is the life you want, ok. But I'm guessing it is NOT. So make it crystal clear to him that his failure to keep his promises and tend to your emtional needs, is grounds for divorce. You *must* mean this and make it clear that you do, in fact, mean it--because if you do not, then he will sniff it out, and again, you will be trapped in this endless cycle.

When you can do so calmly, explain to him what is happening in your marriage. Print out and have him read about the "Walk Away Wife." Ask him for input on preventing this from happening in your marriage. Make sure he understands that going without your needs met, or ending up in the cycle of resesntment b/c he commits to the gym but not to your needs, are not options. Again, being calm during this discussion is important. If he is not calm or does not take you seriously, stop and continue at a later time. If he will *not* engage in a respectful discussion, seek professional help now.

The decision you need to make, of course, is, will you take the risk of ending up as a resentful wife/mother? Make that decision before you engage with him, and make it with your eyes open. I can pretty much guarantee that if you let him backslide and forgive him, after telling him you *won't* tolerate it, you are destined for unhappiness. At the very least, you must be prepared to move out and refuse to move back in until counseling has occurred (if he backslides again). And, if after you move out and do counseling, he *still* backslides, then you have to leave him--he does not value your needs. Accepting that will be extremely painful, but better to do so BEFORE you have kids. And if you already have kids, it does not change the outcome: staying in such a marriage "for the sake of the kids" will teach your kids to accept unhappy marriages. Better to part when you are just sad, hurt, and disappointed, than a few years down the road when resentment and affairs have made divorce much worse and *much* harder on the kids. 

Good luck.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I think the board has been slow. I will add some input as I feel like I am in the same boat as you, with the exception of my latest post, our marriage was going great, things were improving, I was working tremendously on his top 5 needs and he was complimenting me on meeting them and I only got a little bit in return. Over the last week my hormones went nuts, my period was late, I was pmsing and suddenly it's like he is dr hyde because his needs are not being met. I also started a new medicine that has reduced my drive (i just lowered the dosage because it also screwed my ability to obtain an o) don't know if he was frustrated with that or not, but all his meeting of my needs went out the window about two weeks ago. He still does his usual little things like making coffee in the am, and his chit chats after work about his day, but when I try to start conversations not much, not much affection, again no romantic gestures at all, I only want small thoughtful gestures, not things.... so I feel you... it's like most men expect to have their needs met first and if not screw us, and God forbid we might need a little extra in the meantime, but if they need extra we have to bend over backwards and give and give and give.... or else they may start looking elsewhere (or we have that thought in our heads). But gifts are not the only way he can show his romance to you, and express that especially in financial troubles, and give him some examples. ALso on the UTI thing, many women are not told, you must pee after sex each time.... this helps keep the urether (sp) clean of any sex fluids to prevent UTI... I had a doc tell me this. I pass it on whenever I can because I have found most women do not know this. Force yourself to pee afterwards, even if it is just a couple drops, an ounce of prevent goes a long long way.
> I hear you though totally on the reciprocation of having needs met. I have noticed though when I meet my husbands needs he is happier, and does meet mine a little bit more, but getting that extra mile like when we were dating, just doesn't happen anymore.... I guess because he already (as my gma would say) "bought the cow and gets the milk"


I am so sorry you're going through that. My husband says he wants to meet my needs, that he should be meeting them, he just forgets and is really lazy about remembering. He put an alarm in his phone about two months ago to remind him to do special things for me. Things didn't change, and I found out he turned the alarm off because it was interfering with work, but didn't bother to reset it at a different time. 

He's an easy man to please. If I make his lunches, give his massages and put effort into our sex life, he's satisfied. I'm a sexual woman, so the only things that are more difficult are the lunches and massages. I'm not perfect, but I do them. 

I'm not hard to please either. Anything that could be considered romantic will speak to me. Yesterday he wrote me a sonnet and bought me a rose. I liked that. I know it was hard for him to write me a sonnet. It took him like, over an hour. It was a sweet gesture, and I hope is just the beginning to getting back on track. He's promised things will be different this time and I want to believe him...it's just that he says the same things every time, and then never changes his actions. It's like, as long as he apologizes and makes more promises, that I should be fine. Um, no. 

I've written lists of _hundreds_ of things he could do for me, ranging from free to slightly expensive. Money should never get in the way of meeting my needs, and we haven't had a lot of money, so I wrote down as many free or inexpensive ideas that I could think of. Did he ever use the list? No. He lost the first one, so I made a second, and he lost that one too. I have repeated myself to him time and time again, and then nothing. It's gotten so bad I've given up on ever getting certain things from him ever again, cause he just doesn't make the time to do them. 

And yeah, just this last visit to the doctor I was told about peeing after sex. I had never heard that one before, in all of the _numerous_ UTI's I've had. So, I've been trying to do that more and more, along with drinking a lot of water and taking cranberry capsulls everyday. It's been working so far. The sex hasn't fully gone back to what it was. I'm like, terrified of getting another UTI. 

When it comes to his needs being met he's not a jerk when it doesn't happen. He's actually very understanding when I have apologized in the past. It's just, when I bring up his mistakes he gets incredibly defensive and depressed. It's agonizing for me. 

Well, hopefully things really have changed this time. I was the one who had to break the cycle and meet his needs when my own weren't being met, and hopefully it spoke to him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Is he a generally selfish guy? I don't find his lack of action unusual. My husband is a very conscientious guy, but is admittedly selfish by nature. He WANTS to please me so he makes sure he puts an effort in doing the things I like/need. I know this isn't the norm for him and therefore I reciprocate to keep him motivated to continue.

The key though is that he admits being selfish and complacent, and truly and honestly tries to overcome that for the sake of our relationship.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> Your husband is treading on dangerous ground, and you need to take action to prevent this situation from deteriorating.
> 
> Read up on the "Walk Away Wife" syndrome. This will be you--3, 5, 15 years from now, if things do not change (and you have kids together). Or you will be smarter and leave as soon as he has failed, again, to maintain his commitment to you, and you do not have kids. (As an aside, if you do not have kids--don't. Not until he has shown that he takes your emotional needs seriously. Otherwise you will feel trapped).


We don't have kids. I'm still in school and, once I've graduated and gotten a job, he wants to go to school. Neither of us wants kids until after we're both done with college, which is going to be a ways down the road. I don't see us realistically thinking about kids for another eight to ten years. I have seen this as a bit of a blessing, as I have considered what I would do if this cycle continues. 



> If you tolerate his slipping into neglect, then he will continue to do it. If that is the life you want, ok. But I'm guessing it is NOT. So make it crystal clear to him that his failure to keep his promises and tend to your emtional needs, is grounds for divorce. You *must* mean this and make it clear that you do, in fact, mean it--because if you do not, then he will sniff it out, and again, you will be trapped in this endless cycle.


Yesterday was the first time I'd really been firm. It was also the first time that I hadn't neglected his needs at the same time as he had neglected mine. I told him that if he didn't make an effort to change, I would not be in love with him anymore. _That_ was when he got really defensive. I had more thoughts about divorce yesterday than I have ever had before, and not just fleeting spiteful thoughts of, "I'll threaten divorce and then he'll be sorry", but really considering it as a possibility if things don't change.



> When you can do so calmly, explain to him what is happening in your marriage. Print out and have him read about the "Walk Away Wife." Ask him for input on preventing this from happening in your marriage. Make sure he understands that going without your needs met, or ending up in the cycle of resesntment b/c he commits to the gym but not to your needs, are not options. Again, being calm during this discussion is important. If he is not calm or does not take you seriously, stop and continue at a later time. If he will *not* engage in a respectful discussion, seek professional help now.


I am really torn. I was raised by parents who never saw divorce as an option. (They're Christians) My husband and I are both Christians as well, and I'm torn between common sense and the morals I was raised on. My common sense tells me that it's really simple: if he loves me, he'll make an effort to meet my needs. And if he doesn't meet my needs, then he doesn't want to be a husband. Then I feel guilty for even considering a divorce. Ugh. I've never been so conflicted in my life. Especially because we've been getting better in other areas of our marriage, and as far as my basic needs, he's not neglectful at all. So then I feel as if I'm being irrational and harsh on him. 



> The decision you need to make, of course, is, will you take the risk of ending up as a resentful wife/mother? Make that decision before you engage with him, and make it with your eyes open. I can pretty much guarantee that if you let him backslide and forgive him, after telling him you *won't* tolerate it, you are destined for unhappiness. At the very least, you must be prepared to move out and refuse to move back in until counseling has occurred (if he backslides again). And, if after you move out and do counseling, he *still* backslides, then you have to leave him--he does not value your needs. Accepting that will be extremely painful, but better to do so BEFORE you have kids. And if you already have kids, it does not change the outcome: staying in such a marriage "for the sake of the kids" will teach your kids to accept unhappy marriages. Better to part when you are just sad, hurt, and disappointed, than a few years down the road when resentment and affairs have made divorce much worse and *much* harder on the kids.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you for your very honest post. As hard as it was for me to read, there's a big part of me that feels like you're right. I just...I'm so conflicted. So very, very conflicted. I've had guys tell me many times that I'm the kind of woman they would walk through fire for. My husband has never said any such thing to me, and even though he says I'm the girl of his dreams, I want to see and believe that I am. We're a thousand times healthier now than we were three years ago when we first married. I've changed a lot, and so has he. It's just this one area that continues to stay the same. 

I will say that I feel a hundred times better about who I am now that I've succeeded in meeting his needs when mine aren't met. It's something I've tried to do for a long time, and finally made up my mind that if the marriage was going down the drain, I was going to, at least, do my absolute best. I know he hates that he is the only one to blame. I'd like to see a councilor, but we don't have a lot of money...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I think the board has been slow. I will add some input as I feel like I am in the same boat as you, with the exception of my latest post, our marriage was going great, things were improving, I was working tremendously on his top 5 needs and he was complimenting me on meeting them and I only got a little bit in return. Over the last week my hormones went nuts, my period was late, I was pmsing and suddenly it's like he is dr hyde because his needs are not being met. I also started a new medicine that has reduced my drive (i just lowered the dosage because it also screwed my ability to obtain an o) don't know if he was frustrated with that or not, but all his meeting of my needs went out the window about two weeks ago. He still does his usual little things like making coffee in the am, and his chit chats after work about his day, but when I try to start conversations not much, not much affection, again no romantic gestures at all, I only want small thoughtful gestures, not things.... so I feel you... *it's like most men expect to have their needs met first and if not screw us, and God forbid we might need a little extra in the meantime, but if they need extra we have to bend over backwards and give and give and give...*. or else they may start looking elsewhere (or we have that thought in our heads). But gifts are not the only way he can show his romance to you, and express that especially in financial troubles, and give him some examples. ALso on the UTI thing, many women are not told, you must pee after sex each time.... this helps keep the urether (sp) clean of any sex fluids to prevent UTI... I had a doc tell me this. I pass it on whenever I can because I have found most women do not know this. Force yourself to pee afterwards, even if it is just a couple drops, an ounce of prevent goes a long long way.
> I hear you though totally on the reciprocation of having needs met. I have noticed though when I meet my husbands needs he is happier, and does meet mine a little bit more, but getting that extra mile like when we were dating, just doesn't happen anymore.... I guess because he already (as my gma would say) "bought the cow and gets the milk"


Just have to take issue with this generalization. For many women, if their needs are not being met, sex is the first thing that gets cut off. This type of selfishness is the human condition, not a male or female thing.

That being said, consider whether you are making it too easy for him. Many men love the chase, and not having it makes them lazy. Let him know that if he is not going to meet your needs, you will need to attend to them and that will leave you less time to meet his needs. Make it a factual statement, not a threat. Then follow through - you need to align your actions with your words. There is a thread dealing with turning down the thermostat (I believe it is in the Mens Forum) that might be useful to your situation.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Is he a generally selfish guy? I don't find his lack of action unusual. My husband is a very conscientious guy, but is admittedly selfish by nature. He WANTS to please me so he makes sure he puts an effort in doing the things I like/need. I know this isn't the norm for him and therefore I reciprocate to keep him motivated to continue.
> 
> The key though is that he admits being selfish and complacent, and truly and honestly tries to overcome that for the sake of our relationship.


I wouldn't say selfish as much as just lazy. He has a job that is physically and mentally demanding so I know he's tired a lot, which is why massages mean so much to him. He has to get up before the sun is up, he works overtime nearly every day, he comes home and the first thing he wants to do is something that helps him feel better physically: work out. Which I understand. He doesn't have a lot of personal time. I think that he feels entitled to some lazy time, and unfortunately, chooses to be lazy with my emotional needs. I think he resents how much free time I have.

I am a student so I get to do whatever I want on my down time. What he doesn't realize is that, when you work at least 40 hours a week and have a wife at home who loves you, you sometimes won't get to spend four hours on the x-box. I understand wanting personal time to relax, play the xbox, work on his car and I'm fine with him doing those things...but if my needs aren't met, shouldn't I come first? When the time comes for him to be a full time student while I work, I'm sure the roles will reverse and I wont get to do as many of the things as I do now, while he will.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Just have to take issue with this generalization. For many women, if their needs are not being met, sex is the first thing that gets cut off. This type of selfishness is the human condition, not a male or female thing.
> 
> That being said, consider whether you are making it too easy for him. Many men love the chase, and not having it makes them lazy. Let him know that if he is not going to meet your needs, you will need to attend to them and that will leave you less time to meet his needs. Make it a factual statement, not a threat. Then follow through - you need to align your actions with your words. There is a thread dealing with turning down the thermostat (I believe it is in the Mens Forum) that might be useful to your situation.


I'm confused...do you mean stop having sex with him until he meets my needs? And the needs I'm speaking of aren't sexual, so I can't really met them myself. The sex is great when it happens, and if it's not happening right now it's due to me, not him. I've had UTI's and am struggling with the fear of another, but I'm trying to overcome it and regain our sex life again.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

What really kills me is that I've seen what it looks like when he does put in the effort and it's wonderful. There have been moments off and on in our marriage where I have been more happy than I could ever express. But then things happen and he forgets to do things for me, and just doesn't make the effort to remember until I'm already upset and hurt and resentful.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

He has no reason to meet your needs, honestly - I mean, if he is able to do what he wants, ignore you except for sex time, and have you go out of your way to give him BJs even when in pain with an infection, what's his motivation for meeting your needs?

Also, I know this is likely known, but - the entire month you have been on antibiotics, this interferes with BC until your next cycle, so - I'm hoping you are using other methods (aka condoms) when getting right back to it two days after going of the antibiotics. So - if you don't want children for many years, I'd be careful about that. 

Also, have they investigated the possibility of retention being a problem for you? There's something that is causing you to have these constant infections, and that should really be looked into further. If you constantly take antibiotics all the time, eventually, they'll just have to give you stronger and stronger ones to help. Which is going to do awful things to your guts. 

-You- could meet your basic needs - food, shelter, clothing if you needed to, please don't accept or think that your husband is -saving- you from something, and thus you need to put up with this. This isn't the middle ages, women don't need men to ensure they have enough food to eat. 

I agree that you need to be honest with him, and state that this constant cycle of needing to all but beg for him to meet your needs is getting very tiresome. That while you have periods of being very happy, and feeling very secure in his love for you, most of the time it is obvious he has little interest or desire to put any effort at all into the relationship. This needs to change, either by his own effort, or by thinking about individual or MC. 

A marriage is about more than him getting BJs.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> He has no reason to meet your needs, honestly - I mean, if he is able to do what he wants, ignore you except for sex time, and have you go out of your way to give him BJs even when in pain with an infection, what's his motivation for meeting your needs?


I see your point.



Also said:


> Yes, we've been using a condom. As much as I hate them, having an unexpected child would not be helpful right now at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> He's defensive a lot when it comes to him being in the wrong.


He's defensive because he's guilty and really has no good reason for not doing his part. Being lazy is just an excuse, and excuses are monuments of nothingness and bridges to nowhere.

Acknowledging being lazy and actually working on NOT being lazy is where he needs to be. It's small things. Just like he finds time for himself, he needs to also find time for you. He's married now and he has an obligation to care for you as you do for him.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> He's defensive because he's guilty and really has no good reason for not doing his part. Being lazy is just an excuse, and excuses are monuments of nothingness and bridges to nowhere.
> 
> Acknowledging being lazy and actually working on NOT being lazy is where he needs to be. It's small things. Just like he finds time for himself, he needs to also find time for you. He's married now and he has an obligation to care for you as you do for him.


You're right. I just don't like seeing this in him. I wanted to believe he was better than this.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

A lot of people fall in love with the potential they see in another person. Does that make sense? The thing is, the other person is who they are, right now, today. Maybe they'll be exactly the person you need them to be down the road, but it's up to you to decide if it's worth waiting for something that may never occur. 

You told him how you feel, which is great. He can't say you never communicated your dissatisfaction with the relationship with him. He's got to make a conscious effort every day to not take you for granted, and show you as much. The ball is in his court now.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> A lot of people fall in love with the potential they see in another person. Does that make sense? The thing is, the other person is who they are, right now, today. Maybe they'll be exactly the person you need them to be down the road, but it's up to you to decide if it's worth waiting for something that may never occur.
> 
> You told him how you feel, which is great. He can't say you never communicated your dissatisfaction with the relationship with him. He's got to make a conscious effort every day to not take you for granted, and show you as much. The ball is in his court now.


That makes a lot of sense, actually. I'm hoping that asking to get MC might show him how serious I take this. I, obviously, can't just sit and wait for him to hopefully change and mean it this time. UGH. This is awful.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> I'm confused...do you mean stop having sex with him until he meets my needs? And the needs I'm speaking of aren't sexual, so I can't really met them myself. The sex is great when it happens, and if it's not happening right now it's due to me, not him. I've had UTI's and am struggling with the fear of another, but I'm trying to overcome it and regain our sex life again.


It could be sex, but it could be the other things you do for him as well. While Starfish hit on it, let my try this way. You meet his needs, but he is not doing that for you. You talk to him about the problem, but continue to meet his needs. Your words say that you have an issue with how things are, but your actions are telling him that everything is fine. It is easy for him to receive the message he wants to hear (your actions) rather than the one he does not not (your words).

But if you align your actions with your words (that is, you tell him things are not working and you act like things are not working), it is more difficult for him to ignore. It also helps you avoid building up resentment. 

The key is that you need to explain what you are doing ahead of time, and be honest when he asks you while you are following through. No passive aggressive everything is fine while refusing to make his lunch nonsense. If you quit making his lunch and he asks why, you tell him because he is not interested in making you and your needs a priority, you are taking care of them yourself. That means less time and willingness to make his needs a priority.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> You told him how you feel, which is great. He can't say you never communicated your dissatisfaction with the relationship with him. He's got to make a conscious effort every day to not take you for granted, and show you as much. The ball is in his court now.


I agree but disagree. Communciation is important, but can be incomplete. My post above on aligning your actions with your words is also part of communication. Also, different people interpret things differently. Just because you said one thing does not necessarily mean that he understood it the same way. So consider different ways of communicating the same message to increase your chances that he gets it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

You guys have given me a lot to think about, and you've been honest and straightforward, which I greatly appreciate.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
He is taking you for granted. I have come to the conclusion that in that type situation trying harder produces a worse outcome, and doing less produces a better outcome provided you don't come across as angry. 

It is not possible to sit next to someone on the couch and ignore them without seeming hostile. It is however an entirely different matter for you to go to starbucks to write because you WANT to do that. And that produces the same result for him, which is the absence of your company. 

Change your schedule so you aren't home that much. And when you ARE home, get in bed to go to SLEEP. I am not suggesting you completely shut him down in bed. When you want to connect - connect. When you are tired, be loving about it: babe, can we connect tomorrow, I am tired. 

This is not a "game", it is a strategy. 




Created2Write said:


> We don't have kids. I'm still in school and, once I've graduated and gotten a job, he wants to go to school. Neither of us wants kids until after we're both done with college, which is going to be a ways down the road. I don't see us realistically thinking about kids for another eight to ten years. I have seen this as a bit of a blessing, as I have considered what I would do if this cycle continues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I read the first post and am commenting.

My comment relates to his apology. What struck me was you wrote he apologized and then acted as though you should get over it. Apologizing, just saying the words, is one thing; altering the behavior that lead to the expression of the apology is another - and that to me, is a true apology.

I think if the cycle continues, you could be on dodgy ground. While it's nice you want to consider his needs and ensure they're met, and it might be ideal to give without expecting in return, most of us do indeed expect in return - a mutual respect, effort, appreciation. It sounds like you're really wanting him to consider you and for whatever reason, he's not. I wonder why not? 

It seems this is where resentment and disconnect can begin. I'm not sure what the answer is, but as he goes to the gym and takes care of his needs, I wonder if you have your own interests and something that is just for you also? This isn't meant in a way of keeping score or anything along those lines, rather it's meant as a way of being healthy for yourself - while it's important you both have the WANT to meet each others needs (and not just paying lip service or apologizing but actually DOING and WANTING to), I think it'd be good for you to have your own schedule/interests so that everything isn't just revolving around him. There is a balance of learning and growing as a person, fulfilling parts of yourself, that can be healthy to a marriage. It's about balance.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> I've written lists of _hundreds_ of things he could do for me, ranging from free to slightly expensive. Money should never get in the way of meeting my needs, and we haven't had a lot of money, so I wrote down as many free or inexpensive ideas that I could think of. Did he ever use the list? No. He lost the first one, so I made a second, and he lost that one too. I have repeated myself to him time and time again, and then nothing. It's gotten so bad I've given up on ever getting certain things from him ever again, cause he just doesn't make the time to do them.


You're telling him what you'd like/need. 

I'm of the mindset to allow people the room to be inspired, to express how they feel in their own way - and yes, it's important in a marriage to recognize what speaks to the other person, but to me, I think writing a list sounds un-inspiring. It sounds like you want him to consider you, to think of you and express romantically, but I don't feel that's something that can be forced in a person. Otherwise it just feels, well, forced. Or I imagine this has the potential to make someone feel nagged/resentful/unwilling. I read that he had to set a reminder to think of you, to express..... there's a disconnect. Thinking of each other, is ideally automatic, in my book at least. Do you think he feels good enough for you?

I read this post and then commented, so my bad if you mention this in the thread, but has he ever expressed or thought of you this way when dating? 

This isn't meant to bring you down. It doesn't mean things can't turn around if you're both willing. It's just an observation from what you wrote.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Thank you for your very honest post. As hard as it was for me to read, there's a big part of me that feels like you're right. I just...I'm so conflicted. So very, very conflicted. I've had guys tell me many times that I'm the kind of woman they would walk through fire for. My husband has never said any such thing to me, and even though he says I'm the girl of his dreams, I want to see and believe that I am. We're a thousand times healthier now than we were three years ago when we first married. I've changed a lot, and so has he. It's just this one area that continues to stay the same.


Got to this part and commenting. You sound aware of what you need to do to meet his current needs and giving it a try before it's really too late for you both, and I'm not suggesting to stay in a relationship that doesn't have both of you committed to what's needed, including taking a good look at yourselves..... but be aware of the illusion that romantic love can be. While romance itself, shared between lovers, is a wonderful expression, those words spoken by other men are just words. And they haven't been the men who have been privy to all the aspects of your personality and daily life like your husband has. While I understand you want to feel that with your husband, just please be aware of the illusion that can accompany that type of romantic desire. 

I favor the stripped-back and vulnerable, the journey that you can go through together if both are willing - and then have the romance be part of that.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Created2write
> I love having special things done for me, as big or as small as they may be. As long as he thought of it, it could be as small as a love letter and it would mean the world to me.
> 
> He admitted to being lazy when it comes to meeting my needs and apologized, and then acted like I should just get over it.
> ...



Are you asking too much? NO *but you may need to compromise a bit because of your husband’s nature and be a bit more patient.*

You love those special things and they are super important to you. They are not super important to your husband and therefore they are not going to be driving him to focus on those as much as you do. He will have a hard time remembering to do those special things because those special things are not as special to him. MY comments are based on your statement about your husband’s attitude on those special things. Your quote is 
When it comes to his needs being met he's not a jerk when it doesn't happen

He is not a jerk because they are not built into his nature as being so super important. Your husband should always strive to improve but it will never be a part of his nature as it is yours.





> *By Created2write*
> Yesterday was the first time I'd really been firm. It was also the first time that I hadn't neglected his needs at the same time as he had neglected mine. I told him that if he didn't make an effort to change, I would not be in love with him anymore. That was when he got really defensive. *I had more thoughts about divorce yesterday than I have ever had before, and not just fleeting spiteful thoughts of, "I'll threaten divorce and then he'll be sorry", but really considering it as a possibility if things don't change.*
> 
> There have been moments off and on in our marriage where I have been more happy than I could ever express. But then things happen and he forgets to do things for me, and just doesn't make the effort to remember until I'm already upset and hurt and resentful


From what I have read about your husband from your posts he is a very good man. Does he have short comings? SURE he does. One shortcoming is that he needs to improve on meeting your emotional needs more often. Is he selfish at times? YOU BET but you are never going to find a human that is not selfish sometimes. *However, from what you wrote you have absolutely no biblical base as a Christian to be entertaining a divorce based on his short comings*. Keep looking for ways to help him improve and be patient. 

Young men sometimes a take a long time to gravitate to realizing that sentimental deeds that touch the emotions are super important. Every man is going to have short comings that will take years for improvement. *Do you think that there is another man out there that when weighed against your husband’s good points and bad points is going to be better for you?*

From what I have read in your posts you and your husband have the possibility to have a very successful marriage. I do not feel that way about some of the other posters. You seem like a good woman and your husband seems like a good man. 
You have 40-50 year of marriage life left if you want it; don’t pull the divorce trigger this early; you have a lot of time to get things better. Concentrate on the good things that you and your husband posses and work on helping him grow. 
*Philippians 4 1:9*


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm not sure that drawing on the poster's religion, and suggesting that she suffer through this cycle for years because men just can't grasp understanding female needs, while making sure to enjoy getting theirs met (especially sexually) is a particularly helpful piece of information.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Starstarfisher*I'm not sure that drawing on the poster's religion, and suggesting that she suffer through this cycle for years because men just can't grasp understanding female needs, while making sure to enjoy getting theirs met (especially sexually) is a particularly helpful piece of information


You reworded my suggestion to make it look like I want her to just suffer. My suggestion was “Keep looking for ways to *help him improve *and be patient.”
I fully realize that he needs to improve and I am encouraging her to work with this man as he seems like a good man. My point is that these two people seem to have potential to have a good marriage even though there are some problems right now.

Created2write was the one that first mentioned Christianity and I am glad that she did. The Christian faith is one that I have used in times of trouble and I find it very important especially in situations such as marriage. Christianity is a faith that concentrates a lot on positive relationships with God and people. 

Starfisher, it is your opinion that you are not sure that drawing on a person’s religion *“is a particularly helpful piece of information.” *That is your opinion and some people see it differently and that includes me. Created2write is having relationship problems and mentioned her religion and has asked us some questions. I gave her what I thought may help her and her husband improve and keep a marriage together and avoid divorce. Craeted2write can discard and ignore my post if she thinks that religion is not a particular helpful piece of information or if she thinks that divorce is the best path to take in her situation.

Starfisher
Perhaps it would be better if you would address to Created2write why you feel that religion is not a particularly helpful piece of information rather that you just make statement s about my posts without any specifics. *Created2write is the one that made this thread so rather than you tell us your general opinion about religion why not give Created2write some specifics on why her religion may not be helpful?[/*COLOR]


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for all of the comments and perspectives. There was a lot I didn't make clear the first time around, so I'll explain now. 

As for the lists: he asked me to make them for him. He said that romance was something he wasn't really skilled in, and he didn't know what sort of things would really speak to me. Did I only want roses when I got flowers, or were other flowers okay to use? Do I like jewelry or no? He didn't know where to start, so the list was kind of a starting point for him to give him ideas. I didn't really care if he used the list, just so long as it gave him his own ideas and take on things. Most things that aren't an every day occurrence are special and romantic to me. The list was there to help him think of things to do. 

As for being a Christian, we both are and I definitely appreciate Mr. Blunt's posts. Although I don't think I would divorce my husband over this cycle, I'm not afraid to separate if need be. Yesterday was good for us both. He had all day at work to think about things, I had all day at home to think about things, and we talked when he came home. I told him that I didn't feel like he was taking my needs seriously, and that right now I expected him to put his best effort forward to prove to me that he really is serious about changing. He said he totally understood that, apologized again for being defensive, and said that he would do his best to change. 

We've agreed that once a week he's going to do something extra special for me, outside of the regular things that he does on a daily basis. Cuddling, sex, playing with my hair and dates are all things that he's done since we started dating, so he said I'd get something special once a week. I am totally fine with this. He's already been doing things for me since we talked(took me out for a VERY nice date last night), and time will tell if this is really sticking or not. 

I've explained to him that I don't expect perfection. There are times when I'm sick or just plain too tired to give him a massage, even if I said I would earlier that day. But I try my best to get it done the day after. I told him I expect the same. It's fine if something comes up and gets in the way of doing something special for me, but I expect him to pick things back up once that situation dies back down. 

As far as patience goes...not to sound mean or b*tchy here, but I've been pretty dang patient. This has been going for three years now, so...yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with my patience being a bit thin. He knows what I like, he knows what I need, and he knows how often I need it. He just hasn't chosen to really commit to it yet. If this cycle happens again, I will tell him that we will be separating until he can decide whether or not I'm important to him. I'm still considering seeing a marriage counsilor, but it'll depend on whether or not we can afford it. 

But again, thank you all for your help. I'm hoping that things will be different this time, but I am preparing for what I'll do if they're not. Also, I wanted to add in that I've tried giving him massages when he meets my needs, and then not giving him massages when he stops meeting my needs, and that hasn't changed anything. I think it was earlier this year, I sat him down and said, "You want me to make your lunch and give you massages? Meet my needs. Do something special for me once a week. If you skip a week, you won't be getting massages. You skip another week, you can make your own lunch." Nothing changed. 

If this happens again though, he will get a threat of separation. And if it happens after that, he'll actually get the separation. He won't like living with mom and dad while I'm in the new apartment, and hopefully it won't have to come to that.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
Are you ok with a marriage where you need to use the threat or reality of separation to get him to make an effort to make you feel special? 

Why is he testing your boundaries this way?

BTW: There are things he cares about, things that if you became less available and they happened less often he would try harder. I intensely dislike the idea of using/misusing sex as a direct behavioral lever. But if that is the only thing that works....




Created2Write said:


> Thanks for all of the comments and perspectives. There was a lot I didn't make clear the first time around, so I'll explain now.
> 
> As for the lists: he asked me to make them for him. He said that romance was something he wasn't really skilled in, and he didn't know what sort of things would really speak to me. Did I only want roses when I got flowers, or were other flowers okay to use? Do I like jewelry or no? He didn't know where to start, so the list was kind of a starting point for him to give him ideas. I didn't really care if he used the list, just so long as it gave him his own ideas and take on things. Most things that aren't an every day occurrence are special and romantic to me. The list was there to help him think of things to do.
> 
> ...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2W,
> Are you ok with a marriage where you need to use the threat or reality of separation to get him to make an effort to make you feel special?


What would you suggest? Just getting the divorce over with now? I would rather use separation and honesty about how important this is, and give ourselves a chance to work through this, then jump ship prematurely. Believe it or not, I do love this guy and I've seen what he can be when he tries. Yeah, he hasn't been trying as hard as he should. Which is why I'm not fooling myself into believing that everything will just magically be fixed. But if there's a chance that it can be fixed over time, with counciling and honesty, I'd rather spend more time in this marriage than divorce him. 



MEM said:


> Why is he testing your boundaries this way?


I'm not sure he is "testing" anything. But if he is, and this is just a game he's playing to keep me hooked, he'll be in for a wake up call when I kick him out and he's still expected to pay the bills. 



> BTW: There are things he cares about, things that if you became less available and they happened less often he would try harder. I intensely dislike the idea of using/misusing sex as a direct behavioral lever. But if that is the only thing that works....


I doubt this very much. I've tried it before, even made an agreement with him that if he didn't meet my needs, I wouldn't meet his. That situation didn't even produce a momentary change. I don't want to go back to that.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

When he says he is being lazy, call it what it is... lack of prioritizing the marriage. Then tell him that you won't settle for him letting you take a backseat to "everything else" in his life. 

If he never forgets to go to the gym, it's because that's a priority to him. When your marriage is as important to him, he will stop that forgetful laziness. 

Speaking for myself, I would be very clear about my beliefs on that matter, without giving any ultimatums, and I'd prepare to be that walkaway wife if he didn't make me the most important part of his day.

On the other hand, is it possible that he *does* prioritize the marriage and shows you love in dozens of ways, and you're unhappy that it's missing one thing - romantic gestures? If that's the case, then the change might need to be on your end. If you believe a marriage is good and complete when dedication and perseverance are there, even if romance isn't, then you'd be happier.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
You read my question backwards. I was absolutely not suggesting that you end it. I was suggesting that there needed to be some intermediate step that was effective which was less drastic than moving out. 




Created2Write said:


> What would you suggest? Just getting the divorce over with now? I would rather use separation and honesty about how important this is, and give ourselves a chance to work through this, then jump ship prematurely. Believe it or not, I do love this guy and I've seen what he can be when he tries. Yeah, he hasn't been trying as hard as he should. Which is why I'm not fooling myself into believing that everything will just magically be fixed. But if there's a chance that it can be fixed over time, with counciling and honesty, I'd rather spend more time in this marriage than divorce him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2W,
> You read my question backwards. I was absolutely not suggesting that you end it. I was suggesting that there needed to be some intermediate step that was effective which was less drastic than moving out.


There has been. Perhaps my explanation of the situation was unclear, and I apologize if it was. But my husband and I have talked very openly, and I was very straightforward and frank in expressing my needs. I told him that, if things didn't improve, I would find us a marriage councilor. I wouldn't ask him to move out unless other options had been exhausted first.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> When he says he is being lazy, call it what it is... lack of prioritizing the marriage. Then tell him that you won't settle for him letting you take a backseat to "everything else" in his life.
> 
> If he never forgets to go to the gym, it's because that's a priority to him. When your marriage is as important to him, he will stop that forgetful laziness.
> 
> Speaking for myself, I would be very clear about my beliefs on that matter, without giving any ultimatums, and I'd prepare to be that walkaway wife if he didn't make me the most important part of his day.


Although our discussion wasn't this word for word, this was the basic point. Once the discussion was over I asked him to repeat what he heard me saying and he understood what I said very well. 



> On the other hand, is it possible that he *does* prioritize the marriage and shows you love in dozens of ways, and you're unhappy that it's missing one thing - romantic gestures? If that's the case, then the change might need to be on your end. If you believe a marriage is good and complete when dedication and perseverance are there, even if romance isn't, then you'd be happier.


I have asked him if he thinks this is the case, and he has said no. I have asked myself if I think this is the case, and I don't think that it is. He prioritizes a few things in life: his job, working out, and only then am I thought of. Or, at least, that's how it has been recently. I'm hoping that things will change, even a little bit, this time and stay changed.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

It sounds as though you guys are very young. As someone else who married young, I think you need to recognize that you both are growing and changing individuals, yet also a growing and changing unit.

Right now it seems as though you guys are more focused on what you're getting, not what you're making. When you're young without kids, the honeymoon phase can last awhile, and it sounds like you're just coming out of it. 

Your willingness to consider separation or divorce after a few weeks of being out of sync with your husband, makes it seem as though your emotions are fairly volatile; are you usually more emotionally even? 

The most important thing about marriage isn't love, its a good partnership (that includes but is not limited to love). I would go with your instinct to seek MC. As my counselor friend puts it, therapy works best for normal people with normal problems. You guys are working on communication, but a third party could give some insightful perspective (like TM, but for you both ;-) ) and perhaps you guys need to spend some time defining your idea of what marriage should be, then reconciling ideals with the real world and come up with realistic expectations.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Jimena said:


> It sounds as though you guys are very young. As someone else who married young, I think you need to recognize that you both are growing and changing individuals, yet also a growing and changing unit.


We are young.



> Right now it seems as though you guys are more focused on what you're getting, not what you're making. When you're young without kids, the honeymoon phase can last awhile, and it sounds like you're just coming out of it.
> 
> Your willingness to consider separation or divorce after a few weeks of being out of sync with your husband, makes it seem as though your emotions are fairly volatile; are you usually more emotionally even?


Not quite. This, if you read earlier, has gone on since we first married. So, over three years. It's not like it's all been good and dandy and after a few weeks of neglect I'm getting butt-hurt. This has been a continuous failing on his part throughout the entirety of our marriage. So, if my emotions are volatile there's a reason for it. And, if you also read, I don't _want_ to divorce. I would only get a divorce if he totally and completely shut himself out of our marriage. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting emotional needs to be met.



> The most important thing about marriage isn't love, its a good partnership (that includes but is not limited to love). I would go with your instinct to seek MC. As my counselor friend puts it, therapy works best for normal people with normal problems.


I don't agree that the most important thing is a good partnership. That is important, but I don't think it's the most important. 



> You guys are working on communication, but a third party could give some insightful perspective (like TM, but for you both ;-) )


What's TM? 



> and perhaps you guys need to spend some time defining your idea of what marriage should be, then reconciling ideals with the real world and come up with realistic expectations.


We have done this within the last few days. 

Thank you for your post.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't know you or your husband, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you are naturally inclined to think emotionally. In this case, I think you're going to have to take a more "clinical" approach to getting things moving in the marriage in the direction that both of you want. I'm guessing your husband is also more right brained too? You may have to play "bean counter" and keep a tally of what you do vs what he does. If you feel that you are giving significantly more than he is, then you need to dial it down and then either 1) let him come to you and ask what's up or 2) start talking to him about how he isn't making you feel special and that you feel that you are being taken advantage of. Yeah, it may not sound romantic, but I think this approach would minimize any built up resentment if you keep going all out while the husband keeps forgetting to tend his wife better. Better for the long run IMO (yeah, yeah, a sentence fragment...)


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

If you are Christians and are worried about the cost of MC, might you be able to find a priest/pastor with relevant skills who might be able to help?

Best wishes for the future


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I don't know you or your husband, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you are naturally inclined to think emotionally. In this case, I think you're going to have to take a more "clinical" approach to getting things moving in the marriage in the direction that both of you want. I'm guessing your husband is also more right brained too? You may have to play "bean counter" and keep a tally of what you do vs what he does. If you feel that you are giving significantly more than he is, then you need to dial it down and then either 1) let him come to you and ask what's up or 2) start talking to him about how he isn't making you feel special and that you feel that you are being taken advantage of. Yeah, it may not sound romantic, but I think this approach would minimize any built up resentment if you keep going all out while the husband keeps forgetting to tend his wife better. Better for the long run IMO (yeah, yeah, a sentence fragment...)


This is a good idea. I definitely wouldn't have thought of it. I agree that we could use some some practicality here, and think this could help. Thank you.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

tryingtobebetter said:


> If you are Christians and are worried about the cost of MC, might you be able to find a priest/pastor with relevant skills who might be able to help?
> 
> Best wishes for the future


I've thought of this as well. We just started attending a church, and we're thinking about talking to the Pastor about MC.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

C2W~

I wonder if you aren't chasing after the wrong thing? Do you believe that if your H were to lavish you in gifts, that you would have more of an emotional bond with him? I'm thinking that only a true emotional connection is going to satisfy you.....and that's not really something that can be checked off a list....do you know what I mean? 

It's not really about what he *does*.....it's more about having shared motivations......shared priorities......and working together towards building a stronger marriage. It's about feeling cherished.....valued....treasured. Like what's been said before.....when someone values a person highly, and doesn't want to hurt them....their behavior backs that up. 

With the stated belief that you don't think you would divorce over this........I think that will cause him to take you more for granted. OTOH.....love/loyalty and being prioritized aren't really something you can impose on another person, either. They choose where their heart is (and show us by their actions), but that shouldn't mean that we accept being last on the list, either. Having the belief that divorce isn't an option just really seems to place you between a rock and a hard spot (getting the raw end of the 'deal').


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Anonymous1too said:


> C2W~
> 
> I wonder if you aren't chasing after the wrong thing? Do you believe that if your H were to lavish you in gifts, that you would have more of an emotional bond with him? I'm thinking that only a true emotional connection is going to satisfy you.....and that's not really something that can be checked off a list....do you know what I mean?
> 
> ...


That's why I advocate a more measured approach to trying to help them get their marriage moving in the right direction. We know very little about the husband and for all we know he may be very much in love with the OP but just not sure how to give her what she wants. In a case like this, he may just shut down because he doesn't know what to do. In one of the OP's posts, he tried to right her a sonnet and spent an hour trying to do that. What I think the husband is missing here - and possibly even the OP - is that it's not that the husband has to become the next Keats in order to sweep her off her feet. It's the effort put in to let the OP know that he's thinking about her. IMO, the husband is confused about what the OP wants. I believe that people who are feeling/sensing/emotional can have difficulty in conveying their thoughts in a clear manner that explicitly states what actions are desired. I think the husband believes he has to be a huge romantic, yet he would probably get a lot further if he would simply leave brief notes telling the OP that he's thinking about her or getting her a single red rose "just because"...things like that.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

I agree.....that sounds more like re-molding a person (the standard of having to be a profound writer), and that they won't simply be accepted for who they are. That's what most of us desire (I believe)....to be loved for who we truly are---not what others want for us to be. An emotional bond comes from exposing our true self (taking the risk that we may be rejected for it) and having that accepted.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> C2W~
> 
> I wonder if you aren't chasing after the wrong thing? Do you believe that if your H were to lavish you in gifts, that you would have more of an emotional bond with him? I'm thinking that only a true emotional connection is going to satisfy you.....and that's not really something that can be checked off a list....do you know what I mean?


Firstly, receiving of gifts is a love language and there's nothing wrong with it. Secondly, I don't want to be lavished in gifts. But I do have emotional needs, like my husband does, and while I do the few things he asks me to, why should he not return the favor? To answer your question, though, if he were to do the things I have clearly stated that I need, yes, I think the emotional connecting between us would strengthen. But I don't consider that to be lavishing me with gifts. 

I didn't think I should have to go into this, but it's not like my husband doesn't get any money spent on him. He's in the process of updating his car, and it's requiring a great amount of money. We can afford it, as he saves up for the parts he needs, but he has a lot that he wishes to do on it. Some of it is necessary to keep the car running, but a lot of it is extra stuff that he doesn't need. He just wants it. 

I support him in this as he loves this car and has had it since he was a teenager. He practically built the engine with his own hands. I have money coming in for school, and when I get it, I make sure to give him some of it for his own use. (I'd buy the parts myself, but I'm not a car person and I don't know what it is he needs.) And his car is much more expensive than anything I would ever ask him for myself. 

So, respectfully, I think you have assumed too much about me. I'm an emotional girl, yes. I'm working on not being quite so emotional and sensitive. But I can't survive with my basic needs provided for. I need romance, I need him to meet my needs. There's nothing wrong with this.



> It's not really about what he *does*.....it's more about having shared motivations......shared priorities......and working together towards building a stronger marriage. It's about feeling cherished.....valued....treasured. Like what's been said before.....when someone values a person highly, and doesn't want to hurt them....their behavior backs that up.


...Which is precisely what I want him to do, so yes, it IS about what he _does_. Words are fine and dandy but if there aren't actions to back what he says, what good are they? 



> With the stated belief that you don't think you would divorce over this........I think that will cause him to take you more for granted. OTOH.....love/loyalty and being prioritized aren't really something you can impose on another person, either. They choose where their heart is (and show us by their actions), but that shouldn't mean that we accept being last on the list, either. Having the belief that divorce isn't an option just really seems to place you between a rock and a hard spot (getting the raw end of the 'deal').


I have particular religious beliefs about divorce, and my husband and I share these beliefs. I have already decided that, if things continue to stay as they always have been and MC doesn't help, I will ask him to move out until he can make me more of a priority. I'm hoping it won't come to that. One thing my husband doesn't understand is that I can't see his intentions, and he often thinks good intentions should be enough. 

I understand how it could be seen that he's taking advantage of me, and if he is then nothing will change at all, no matter what I do and at that point...well, I'll be meeting privately with a councilor.


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## nandosbella (Jul 6, 2012)

no offense, hunny... but you make living with you sound like a lot of work. i'm assuming you're newly married... and i'm sure you have these high expectations of happily ever after, but the reality is you hubs doesnt want to come home after working and just pay attention to you. he needs that unwinding time... i'm sure he wouldnt mind all eyes on you sometimes, but having to write a letter to you every day after he gets home from work just sounds exhausting. 

if i were you.. i'd concentrate on making home life relaxing and comforting. if you do this then he will want to spend more of his energy on you. marriage becomes more about co-existing peacefully the longer you stay married, and demanding things like this constantly are going to get old for him. and DO NOT disrupt your sex life to manipulate your hubs. it's childish and just plain MEAN. 

dont give him a reason to resent you. and dont do the lunch and massages just because you're expecting something in return. you should want to do those things for your loved one.. because he is your loved one. if you're going to have a marraige where keeping score like this is important.. i wish you the very best of luck. 

you have a man who is supporting you while you're in school.. you have no financial responsibilities... count your blessings, hunny... and thank him for THAT.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's why I advocate a more measured approach to trying to help them get their marriage moving in the right direction. We know very little about the husband and for all we know he may be very much in love with the OP but just not sure how to give her what she wants. In a case like this, he may just shut down because he doesn't know what to do. In one of the OP's posts, he tried to right her a sonnet and spent an hour trying to do that. What I think the husband is missing here - and possibly even the OP - is that it's not that the husband has to become the next Keats in order to sweep her off her feet. It's the effort put in to let the OP know that he's thinking about her. IMO, the husband is confused about what the OP wants. I believe that people who are feeling/sensing/emotional can have difficulty in conveying their thoughts in a clear manner that explicitly states what actions are desired. I think the husband believes he has to be a huge romantic, yet he would probably get a lot further if he would simply leave brief notes telling the OP that he's thinking about her or getting her a single red rose "just because"...things like that.


He's said numerous times that it's not that he doesn't understand what it is I need from him. He understands it fine, according to him. Now, maybe he really doesn't understand and doesn't want to annoy me by asking for me to clarify. But I can't read his thoughts, so I have no idea. I can only go by what he tells me. 

The only clue I have to the issue is that he's just lazy when it comes to meeting my needs, which is what he said it was. He knows what they are, I've asked him countless times if I'm asking too much and he says no, and he says he's just lazy. The issue is his, according to him. And before anyone says, "Do you think he would tell the truth if you were the issue?", YES. I do, as he has told me before when I'm being unrealistic or unfair or asking too much of him.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> I agree.....that sounds more like re-molding a person (the standard of having to be a profound writer), and that they won't simply be accepted for who they are. That's what most of us desire (I believe)....to be loved for who we truly are---not what others want for us to be. An emotional bond comes from exposing our true self (taking the risk that we may be rejected for it) and having that accepted.


I don't need him to be the next William Shakespeare, nor do I want him to be. He's already a fabulous writer, though he doesn't think he is, and I prefer his words. I have told him this many times. And, to be clear, I don't expect letters and poems from him often. I don't even expect them at all. I only mentioned them because I love getting them, and they're free. I don't want him to feel that he has to buy me oodles of diamonds before I'll feel loved. I do love getting flowers, even a single one, unexpectedly. Or making dinner at home together, or getting a surprise bottle of wine. Or even sitting and watching my favorite movie together. Some of my favorite memories are of when he suggested we watch a movie, I asked which one, and he said, "How about Sense and Sensibility"? I know he doesn't like that movie, yet he sat and watched it with me. He hasn't done this with me in over a year and a half.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Firstly, receiving of gifts is a love language and *there's nothing wrong with it*. Secondly, I don't want to be lavished in gifts. But I do have emotional needs, like my husband does, and while I do the few things he asks me to, why should he not return the favor? To answer your question, though, if he were to do the things I have clearly stated that I need, yes, I think the emotional connecting between us would strengthen. But I don't consider that to be lavishing me with gifts.


I didn't say there was anything wrong with wanting to receive gifts, just that from what you've posted, it made me wonder if that's really what you sense is missing. 

Gifts and an emotional bond are separate. People can give the most appropriate gifts, but still have it be out of an emptiness or hollow meaning. You identifying the issue as a "he needs to show me more" (by doing favors) *could be* like how an emotional eater reaches for food when they are sad (reaching for the wrong thing). I'm not saying that in an absolute way---because, I don't know. I was really putting that all out there as a question for you to answer within yourself. 



> So, respectfully, I think you have assumed too much about me. I'm an emotional girl, yes. I'm working on not being quite so emotional and sensitive. But I can't survive with my basic needs provided for. I need romance, I need him to meet my needs. There's nothing wrong with this.


Having emotional needs is human. I agree.....there's nothing wrong with it---it's how we bond with others (properly). 





> ...Which is precisely what I want him to do, so yes, it IS about what he _does_. Words are fine and dandy but if there aren't actions to back what he says, what good are they?


I'm not sure how to clarify what I had said. Our loyalties and what motivates us show in our behavior and how we spend our time/money/effort. ISTM that what would make a *greater* impact on your marriage would be if his loyalties and motivations were to change (not just what he's doing). What I mean is......instead of his priority being gym time/working on the car....if he made the adjustment that he valued spending time talking with you---planning your week or just dreaming about the future together.....I presume that may change things a lot. What do *you* think?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

nandosbella said:


> no offense, hunny... but you make living with you sound like a lot of work. i'm assuming you're newly married... and i'm sure you have these high expectations of happily ever after, but the reality is you hubs doesnt want to come home after working and just pay attention to you. he needs that unwinding time... i'm sure he wouldnt mind all eyes on you sometimes, but having to write a letter to you every day after he gets home from work just sounds exhausting.


Where did I say I need a letter everyday? Have you even read the things I've posted? Cause it sounds like you just skimmed what I said and are jumping to major conclusions. 

I work part time and go to school full time. When I come home I don't particular want to clean, do the dishes and the laundry, make the bed, make his lunch for the next day and his dinner for when he gets home, nor do I want to go work out at the gym every night, and then when we get home, give him massages and have sex. BUT, I do these things because I love him and, if I don't do them, they don't get done. He doesn't ever make his own lunch, and the only thing he does around the house is take out the garbage and, occasionally, he'll do a load of his own laundry. I don't want letters from him everyday. They wouldn't be special then. All I ask of him his something special once a week. 



> if i were you.. i'd concentrate on making home life relaxing and comforting. if you do this then he will want to spend more of his energy on you.


I think I make our home quite comforting and relaxing, considering how much I do and how little he does. He rarely has a complaint. 



> marriage becomes more about co-existing peacefully the longer you stay married, and demanding things like this constantly are going to get old for him.


You're making me sound like a selfish b!tch, and I don't appreciate it. I have never demanded anything from him. Moreover, I work as hard as I can to make him feel loved, respected and desired. All I want it the same effort in return. 



> and DO NOT disrupt your sex life to manipulate your hubs. it's childish and just plain MEAN.


Which I haven't done, ever, and don't plan to do. I enjoy sex and get a lot of emotional satisfaction from it. And when I am emotionally fulfilled by him, my sexual appetite is practically insatiable. 



> dont give him a reason to resent you. and dont do the lunch and massages just because you're expecting something in return. you should want to do those things for your loved one.. because he is your loved one.


I really don't think you've read a single thing I have written. I don't give him massages and make his lunch so that I can get things in return, which is why I continue to do them even when my needs aren't fulfilled. I do them because I love him, and I believe in treating people the way I want to be treated. 



> if you're going to have a marraige where keeping score like this is important.. i wish you the very best of luck.


So, according to you, I should just sit back, meet his needs no matter what, and accept the little I get in return without complaint? No thanks.



> you have a man who is supporting you while you're in school.. you have no financial responsibilities... count your blessings, hunny... and thank him for THAT.


I really don't like your assumptions and insinuations. _I_ pay for my schooling by working at the college so my tuition is payed for, and _I_ pay for my books with my financial aid. I also pay for part of our rent through my financial aid, so my husband doesn't pay for anything in regards to my schooling. I also pay for some of my husbands vehicle needs and wants with the extra I have left over from my financial aid. 

I thank him _every day_ for his hard work. And he does work very hard. I also make sure he has clean clothes, a healthy lunch, I make his breakfast for him, I do his laundry, and I make sure he has a clean home to come home to so he's not so stressed at night. I give him satisfying sex, whether I feel like it or not(unless I'm sick or on my period), and I have been doing _all_ of our packing since we're moving in a couple of weeks. 

My husband doesn't resent me, and I don't give him reason to. So what about him making me resent him? Or does that not matter?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2,
This works for us, that does not make it right for you or anyone else. Here goes: 

Relentless repetition of the same bad behavior by either of us produces a 180 by the other. This is a comprehensive freeze. It does not happen often, in fact it is fairly rare. It means "I am not going to interact with you aside from the bare minimum discusion of logistics until this is resolved." 
- Zero touch
- Stay outside each others personal space (18 inches)
- No "i love you's"
- Nada - zip - zilch






Created2Write said:


> Where did I say I need a letter everyday? Have you even read the things I've posted? Cause it sounds like you just skimmed what I said and are jumping to major conclusions.
> 
> I work part time and go to school full time. When I come home I don't particular want to clean, do the dishes and the laundry, make the bed, make his lunch for the next day and his dinner for when he gets home, nor do I want to go work out at the gym every night, and then when we get home, give him massages and have sex. BUT, I do these things because I love him and, if I don't do them, they don't get done. He doesn't ever make his own lunch, and the only thing he does around the house is take out the garbage and, occasionally, he'll do a load of his own laundry. I don't want letters from him everyday. They wouldn't be special then. All I ask of him his something special once a week.
> 
> ...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> I didn't say there was anything wrong with wanting to receive gifts, just that from what you've posted, it made me wonder if that's really what you sense is missing.


Certain gifts, yes. More romance than anything else. We go on dates, but they're dull. There's not a lot of emotional connection or flirtation or pursuit. More than anything I want to feel that I really am the girl of his dreams, as he often says that I am...I just don't like thinking, "Why don't I feel like I'm the girl of your dreams?"



> Gifts and an emotional bond are separate. People can give the most appropriate gifts, but still have it be out of an emptiness or hollow meaning. You identifying the issue as a "he needs to show me more" (by doing favors) *could be* like how an emotional eater reaches for food when they are sad (reaching for the wrong thing). I'm not saying that in an absolute way---because, I don't know. I was really putting that all out there as a question for you to answer within yourself.


I see what you're saying. I hope that, when he does things for me or gives me gifts, that it's because his heart is in it. I often suspected that, since he has said it's laziness, that his heart isn't in it. And yes, I am saddened at the situation. I don't know what else to reach for, if it's not that he needs to do more. He's even admitted that he needs to do more...



> Having emotional needs is human. I agree.....there's nothing wrong with it---it's how we bond with others (properly).
> 
> I'm not sure how to clarify what I had said. Our loyalties and what motivates us show in our behavior and how we spend our time/money/effort. ISTM that what would make a *greater* impact on your marriage would be if his loyalties and motivations were to change (not just what he's doing). What I mean is......instead of his priority being gym time/working on the car....if he made the adjustment that he valued spending time talking with you---planning your week or just dreaming about the future together.....I presume that may change things a lot. What do *you* think?


Making me more of a priority, yes, would change things a lot. I want him to have his time to himself. I want him to work on his car, even teach me things about cars, play the x-box, go to the gym...those things that help him to relax and unwind. I don't want him to spend every waking moment he has that he's not at work on me, but I do want to be the priority in his life.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2,
> This works for us, that does not make it right for you or anyone else. Here goes:
> 
> Relentless repetition of the same bad behavior by either of us produces a 180 by the other. This is a comprehensive freeze. It does not happen often, in fact it is fairly rare. It means "I am not going to interact with you aside from the bare minimum discusion of logistics until this is resolved."


I'll think about this. Thank you for your post. It makes sense, and I can see how it would work. I'm not sure if it would work for us, but I'll think about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
I want you to think about something. Just ask yourself the questions. Your answers will be unique to you. 

There have been some very entertaining posts in the past about the "economy" of a marriage. If your husband believes that his behavior has real consequences, both positive and negative, he is more likely to behave that way. 

Because of that, some amount of "bad behavior" in any situation MAY be caused by the perception of a high level of stability. For example, it is inherently difficult, draining and expensive to physically "move". And it takes time and planning. It also allows your partner to make you the bad guy by saing "she left me". 

While it is a show of independence to move out when treated badly, it is a show of incredible emotional restraint to stay and do a 180 while you are in the same residence. 





Created2Write said:


> I'll think about this. Thank you for your post. It makes sense, and I can see how it would work. I'm not sure if it would work for us, but I'll think about it.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> We go on dates, but they're dull. *There's not a lot of emotional connection* or flirtation or pursuit. More than anything I want to feel that I really am the girl of his dreams, as he often says that I am...I just don't like thinking, "Why don't I feel like I'm the girl of your dreams?"


That's really what I was getting at......that it's the connection that seems to missing. When there's a true connection....even going to Home Depot can be a "date". Everyday living can be a "vacation" together. Without it, though.....a trip to Bora Bora can be dull and long....even "work" to spend time together.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2W,
> I want you to think about something. Just ask yourself the questions. Your answers will be unique to you.
> 
> There have been some very entertaining posts in the past about the "economy" of a marriage. If your husband believes that his behavior has real consequences, both positive and negative, he is more likely to behave that way.
> ...


I see what you're saying. I will definitely ask myself those questions as this situation either changes or stays the same. I'm not moving out, btw. I don't know if what I said was unclear, but we're both moving to a new apartment together.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> That's really what I was getting at......that it's the connection that seems to missing. When there's a true connection....even going to Home Depot can be a "date". Everyday living can be a "vacation" together. Without it, though.....a trip to Bora Bora can be dull and long....even "work" to spend time together.


I guess my only question then is, how does my husband reconnect with me emotionally? 

Last night was a good night. We've been watching the television show Firefly, and last night finished it with the movie Serenity. It was early when the movie finished, barely eight thirty, and we started playing together in our silly ways. We haven't done that in a very, very long time. We started making out, and it lead to a passionate night. He got his massage, and I got a lot of cuddling from him in return. We even fell asleep holding each other....something else that has not happened in a very long time.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I guess my only question then is, how does my husband reconnect with me emotionally?
> 
> Last night was a good night. We've been watching the television show Firefly, and last night finished it with the movie Serenity. It was early when the movie finished, barely eight thirty, and we started playing together in our silly ways. We haven't done that in a very, very long time. We started making out, and it lead to a passionate night. He got his massage, and I got a lot of cuddling from him in return. We even fell asleep holding each other....something else that has not happened in a very long time.


It first has to come from your husband. First, he needs to recognize that an emotional connection is even necessary....then, he has to be self-motivated to make his own adjustments. When there are consequences (natural---like losing your love/loyalty)....and people know what's on the line..... normally changes in behavior will occur. But.....I do believe that begins with him truly seeing the need.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Are you even sure the emotional connection has ever really been there? I'm not implying that he's never loved you......just that he could have always kept himself guarded and never really put his true emotions out there. Unless he opens up and shares things with you......it isn't really a connection.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> It first has to come from your husband. First, he needs to recognize that an emotional connection is even necessary....then, he has to be self-motivated to make his own adjustments. When there are consequences (natural---like losing your love/loyalty)....and people know what's on the line..... normally changes in behavior will occur. But.....I do believe that begins with him truly seeing the need.


I don't know how to make it clearer. In the past I've been timid about expressing my needs, and the consequences that will ensure if they aren't met, bluntly...but this time I believe I stood up for myself. I told him that I can't continue to get a little of his effort for a little while, and then nothing for a long period of time. I told him that he needs to be as consistent at meeting my needs as I have been at meeting his, or else he will lose my love for him. He was very silent when I said that, as I don't think he expected it. 

I guess what's frustrated me the most is that he's been so sincere and heartfelt in his remorse many times before...vowing to "win me back", as he put it, by meeting my needs. I guess I expected more direct and full fledged effort on his part...he said that he has a surprise for me this weekend. I think I know what it is...or have a general idea, anyway. I don't want him to burn himself out, though...which is why I told him to keep the special things at once a week.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> Are you even sure the emotional connection has ever really been there? I'm not implying that he's never loved you......just that he could have always kept himself guarded and never really put his true emotions out there. Unless he opens up and shares things with you......it isn't really a connection.


This is such a hard question to answer. There have been times when I _thought_ the connection was there. During our first year of marriage, after I'd expressed a need for certain things in our relationship, he did something really, really special. I was taking a bath and he quietly made a trail of heart-shaped notes from the bathroom door to the living room. Each note had a lit candle next to it, and each note elaborated on the one before it about how much he loved me. I got out of the bath and was shocked. The whole apartment was dark, save for the candles outlining the path to the living room. He was where the path ended, and there was a fire in the fireplace with a dozen more candles lighting the living room. 

It was one of the single most romantic things I have ever seen, and it was 100% his own idea. I'd never even hinted to such a thing, and so I thought the connection was there. It was like he'd reached into my imagination and duplicated an idea I didn't even know I had. But those kinds of things have happened...maybe three or four times since we married. I don't need something _that_ elaborate every week, but when that was _all_ I got for months...the connection doesn't really last. And when I brought up the subject back then, he couldn't take the idea that he was hurting me. It got so bad, with the resentment as we got close to our second year, that I actually stopped orgasming during oral sex. _That_ broke him, and I thought it really changed him...but, as usual, the change only lasted a short time. 

For a while(probably six months) I tried not caring about the romance and just letting him do his thing, showing me love when and how he wanted...but that made things much, much worse. And it made it difficult to explain how much I needed certain things after going without them for so long, and not mentioning them. He really doesn't take criticism well, even if it's gently and respectfully given, so it's been hard trying to express my needs without him shutting down on me.


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## nandosbella (Jul 6, 2012)

i'm sorry if you were offended... you're right... i didnt read everything you wrote. the three pages of choppy responses i just skimmed.and hopefully you can understand my response without my chopping up each point... but mainly i was reacting to your original posting. 

in your original posting you were complaining about the things you do for your hubs and how those efforts are not paid back. you do blah blah blah for him and he doesnt give you anything IN RETURN. that's what i meant by keeping score. 

anyway.. i think it's easy for men to get attached to a routine.. especially a comfortable one. for women... they want the romance that lured them in the first place. women and men are just wired differently. 

yes, i think your resentment matters.. and i think you already have some built up. your description of your home life where your hubs doesnt do anything to help you around the house and your once a week "something special" reqirement/expectation are already triggers.

i reacted to your posting personally beacuse i read where you were upset with your hubs because he wanted to go to the gym. that somehow him wanting to go to the gym has ANYTHING to do with YOU. like he cant have an activity just for himself without you getting upset about it. in that way, yes, i do think you are selfish. EVERYTHING is not about you. when he goes to the gym.... it's not about you.

why dont you suggest a vacation? it would be a great oppotunity for you to reconnect... it doesnt even have to be expensive or even traditionally "romantic"... my hubs and i just went to chattanooga, TN which isnt romantic AT ALL... but we had a freakin awesome weekend. it was good to talk on the way there and back... and it just gave us 2 days of no phone quality time together.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Apparently, my first post came off wrong. My point wasn't to undermine or insult the OP's religion, so - if that came across that way, OP, I'm really sorry. Though, I feel my post was being dangerously misrepresented, I'm just going to avoid rehashing that and move on. 

Have you ever read the Five Love Languages? It's a great book, and I'm wondering if reading it together might help reinforce for your husband that you have different "love" needs than he does. While you doing "acts of service" AKA keeping the house clean and making dinner, etc speak love to him, as does the physical aspects of your relationship, for you, you need other things to feel loved. 

While you've expressed this to him, perhaps an "outside" opinion might solidify that idea for him? 

You mention going to the gym, and he goes to the gym. Could you start coordinating going at the same time, so it's an activity you can pursue together? Could you look into other outside activities so you could enjoy them together?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

nandosbella said:


> i'm sorry if you were offended... you're right... i didnt read everything you wrote. the three pages of choppy responses i just skimmed.and hopefully you can understand my response without my chopping up each point... but mainly i was reacting to your original posting.
> 
> in your original posting you were complaining about the things you do for your hubs and how those efforts are not paid back. you do blah blah blah for him and he doesnt give you anything IN RETURN. that's what i meant by keeping score.


I still don't see what you want me to do. I don't do these things to get things in return, I do them because I love him. And even though my needs haven't been met, I continue to meet his because I love him, even though a lot of people here have told me to stop meeting his needs. That said, am I supposed to ignore or deny my own emotional needs?



> anyway.. i think it's easy for men to get attached to a routine.. especially a comfortable one. for women... they want the romance that lured them in the first place. women and men are just wired differently.
> 
> yes, i think your resentment matters.. and i think you already have some built up. your description of your home life where your hubs doesnt do anything to help you around the house and your once a week "something special" reqirement/expectation are already triggers.


So what do _you_ suggest I do?



> i reacted to your posting personally beacuse i read where you were upset with your hubs because he wanted to go to the gym. that somehow him wanting to go to the gym has ANYTHING to do with YOU. like he cant have an activity just for himself without you getting upset about it. in that way, yes, i do think you are selfish. EVERYTHING is not about you. when he goes to the gym.... it's not about you.


I don't know if you're projecting or what, but you have completely misunderstood me. I don't want "everything" to be about me, nor have I said anything of the kind. I _want_ him to go to the gym. It's important to him, and it has been since he was in high school. I'm not keeping him from going to the gym. He also wants _me_ to go to the gym with him. He enjoys watching me work up a sweat. But he also wants to spend an hour or more every day at the gym. That is physically exhuasting for me. I'm more than happy to oblige him, but it would help a lot if _I_ was his priority. I would spend all day with him at the gym if he would actually meet my needs. It may surprise you, but I really do want my husband to be happy...I just want to be happy too. If that makes me selfish, then fine.



> why dont you suggest a vacation? it would be a great oppotunity for you to reconnect... it doesnt even have to be expensive or even traditionally "romantic"... my hubs and i just went to chattanooga, TN which isnt romantic AT ALL... but we had a freakin awesome weekend. it was good to talk on the way there and back... and it just gave us 2 days of no phone quality time together.


We can't exactly afford it. We just signed a lease for a new apartment, which we can afford, but he doesn't make a whole lot. The majority of his check is going to go to pay our bills. The extra we have coming in from my financial aid isn't a lot either, and it's being used to buy him things for his car and for our apartment, and to pay off the small amount of debt we have. 

I'm sure that a vacation would help, but it's a bit unrealistic at the moment. It's also hard for him to get time off of work, because he doesn't get paid vacation time. We can't afford to lose even half a week of work for him. My hope is that he can search his priorities and put me at the top. Regardless of the time he needs by himself, _nothing_ should be more important than me. If he wants to work out at the gym, I have no issues with it. He can workout every day if he wants to. _I_ have no motivation to go at this point.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> Apparently, my first post came off wrong. My point wasn't to undermine or insult the OP's religion, so - if that came across that way, OP, I'm really sorry. Though, I feel my post was being dangerously misrepresented, I'm just going to avoid rehashing that and move on.


No worries. A few posters have made me incredibly upset, and I likely wasn't reading your post very clearly either. I'm sorry if I misrepresented or misunderstood you.



> Have you ever read the Five Love Languages? It's a great book, and I'm wondering if reading it together might help reinforce for your husband that you have different "love" needs than he does.


We have, a few times actually, and it changes very little to nothing. At least, long term that have been no changes. Short term he can be fantastic, it's just the long term where he gets lazy. 



> While you doing "acts of service" AKA keeping the house clean and making dinner, etc speak love to him, as does the physical aspects of your relationship, for you, you need other things to feel loved.


Precisely. And he knows this, too. My primary love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation, with a secondary in receiving gifts. His are acts of service and quality time, with a secondary of words of affirmation/physical touch. 



> While you've expressed this to him, perhaps an "outside" opinion might solidify that idea for him?


What do you mean by outside opinion? Like a councilor or close friend?



> You mention going to the gym, and he goes to the gym. Could you start coordinating going at the same time, so it's an activity you can pursue together? Could you look into other outside activities so you could enjoy them together?


We usually do go to the gym together, but it has became unenjoyable for me. I used to have a real passion for it, but it has disappeared since I felt that the gym was more of a priority than I was. I want to go back, as I like how I look and feel better when I work out consistently. But I'm afraid I'm still...sensitive on that score. 

We used to go hiking. Haven't gone at all this summer.  I don't know what it is, but things he used to mention as summer got closer, he hasn't mentioned at all this summer. It rains here like, 9-10 months out of the year so summer/early autumn is really the only time we can do outdoor activities.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
You just said something very toxic, and very sad. I am going to translate into the language that men use. 

"It is my husbands fault that I have stopped working out". 


He doesn't own that. You do. In fact, that single statement shifts my view of this entire situation. And in fact, the real issue isn't that he GOES to the gym, it is what he does not do for you. 

I am starting to wonder if somehow you have attempted to force him to choose between you and the gym. THAT is not like forcing someone to choose between you and their friends at the neighborhood bar. It is like forcing them to choose between themselves and you. 

I think you are confusing some very different things. 




Created2Write said:


> No worries. A few posters have made me incredibly upset, and I likely wasn't reading your post very clearly either. I'm sorry if I misrepresented or misunderstood you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Do you have specific needs or do you just need to feel loved?
Sometimes I find that if I don't focus on any particular action coming my way, it is much easier to see the obvious indications of affection and love that might otherwise would have been missed. We often hold up signs of affection to our own standards, instead of putting them in the context of the time, energy, thought and sentiment of their source. I guess I could also put it this way...when you walk in the woods if you make a lot of noise looking for wildlife and birds, you won't see them. But if you keep quiet and trust that you're in the environment where you'll see these things, and don't go traipsing through the underbrush it's a whole different world, with what reveals itself to you. Some things aren't worth hunting doggedly. At this point, it seems that even if he meets your needs specifically, you might get the sense that he doesn't really 'mean' it for real, he's just doing it as part of an agreement...and if these needs are meant to make you feel cared for by your spouse, that feeling won't be there. It's possible he might feel the same way, I'm sorry but if I knew I was getting a massage every day by someone who was more proud of keeping an agreement to meet a specific need even to the detriment of their own personal health, I would feel awkward and I might enjoy the massage, but not the reasonining behind why I got it. I might even daydream about the days when a massage was something special and unexpected and when it came from the heart, not the contract/agreement. Plus I would be frustrated because I would always know what I was getting...and this means the opportunity cost of some future novelty of getting something else as the relationship evolves. I would feel like my partner had locked me into being the same person in the future, forever and ever, as I was right now...and honestly, that's not how most people see themselves. People like to evolve, and being deprived in any way in a relationship of evolving, even evolving maybe to have a lower preference for massages than at present...would make me feel very constricted in the personal growth and evolution department. Relationships are like wines, or cheese if you will...you don't get them by following a recipe. You get them by knowing the elements of winemaking (or cheesemaking) and using intuition along the way, including knowing how and when to serve them, how to culture, etc. It's a living thing. Save precision for things like Mercedes. And honestly, with a Mercedes or any car, you are going to get the same ride every time. After a while, the thrill wears off, you have to get a new car with different features, because the one you have is just the same old same old. Get what I'm saying?
I think you have a good intent, but the way you are going about it is so canned and planned, it has no soul. I am sure from your writing that's not really your intent. A relationship is a living entity, you can't ask it to follow rules in order to build meaning. The meaning should be the driving force behind what happens, and some of that might be recurring, for a while, comes and goes, evolves, maybe because a family/couple tradition, inside joke, etc. But to put the cart in front of the horse, is not just asking for trouble, it creates it. I think this whole thing of meeting specific needs has created a big problem. Maybe MC can help to re-set and get back to basics of relating. Just because a poem is great doesn't mean it should be recited every day. Personally, I like being surprised by impulsive acts of connection and affection. Especially when they come on days I don't expect it. I think a little bit of insecurity in any relationship is somewhat normal and healthy. It encourages you to look after yourself. I think about your H going to the gym and I think, now there is a wise person, he knows he is going to have to be responsible for himself every day for the rest of his life, so he is putting his health as a priority. Whereas you also had that priority, but somewhere you lost your feeling for it, it became muddled by something about love or needs or whatever. But you have a UTI and are still bending over backwards to do for your H. IC might also be helpful in addition to MC. I get the feeling that kind of behavior indicates some muddled boundaries regarding sense of self in a relationship. You have to have something of value to bring to the table, but you're willing to sacrifice what's of value (yourself) in getting it to the table, even serving others at the table. That just won't end well.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> This is such a hard question to answer. There have been times when I _thought_ the connection was there. During our first year of marriage, after I'd expressed a need for certain things in our relationship, he did something really, really special. I was taking a bath and he quietly made a trail of heart-shaped notes from the bathroom door to the living room. Each note had a lit candle next to it, and each note elaborated on the one before it about how much he loved me. I got out of the bath and was shocked. The whole apartment was dark, save for the candles outlining the path to the living room. He was where the path ended, and there was a fire in the fireplace with a dozen more candles lighting the living room.
> 
> It was one of the single most romantic things I have ever seen, and it was 100% his own idea. I'd never even hinted to such a thing, and so I thought the connection was there. It was like he'd reached into my imagination and duplicated an idea I didn't even know I had. But those kinds of things have happened...maybe three or four times since we married.* I don't need something that elaborate every week, but when that was all I got for months...the connection doesn't really last.* And when I brought up the subject back then, he couldn't take the idea that he was hurting me. It got so bad, with the resentment as we got close to our second year, that I actually stopped orgasming during oral sex. _That_ broke him, and I thought it really changed him...but, as usual, the change only lasted a short time.
> 
> For a while(probably six months) I tried not caring about the romance and just letting him do his thing, showing me love when and how he wanted...but that made things much, much worse. And it made it difficult to explain how much I needed certain things after going without them for so long, and not mentioning them. He really doesn't take criticism well, even if it's gently and respectfully given, so it's been hard trying to express my needs without him shutting down on me.


I think we have different ideas as to what an emotional connection is. I'm not really talking out external things being done.....I am talking about getting to know one another (that never stops, I believe) really listening to each other.....paying attention to subtle ques, and treating each other based on what we learn the other person prefers. That's not fleeting.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2W,
> You just said something very toxic, and very sad. I am going to translate into the language that men use.
> 
> "It is my husbands fault that I have stopped working out".
> ...


Yes, it is my responsibility to go to the gym. I never said it wasn't. But he _has_ made it a higher priority in his actions, then he made _me_. I came second to the gym, or at least, that's how things seemed to me based on his laziness to do things for me, and his energy to go to the gym. What else was I supposed to think?



> I am starting to wonder if somehow you have attempted to force him to choose between you and the gym. THAT is not like forcing someone to choose between you and their friends at the neighborhood bar. It is like forcing them to choose between themselves and you.


I _haven't_ forced him to choose between me and the gym. Geez, I already said that I haven't made him stop going. I have told him that I want him to go, and that I'm willing to go too. Hell, I _have_ continued to go with him, despite how I felt, though not as often as before. I told him how I felt about the gym, and he understood, and I told him that I still want it to be apart of our lives, I just have to get past the negative connotations that were attached to it for a week or two. I even reiterated it just now so that there wasn't any confusion between us.

He made it clear, even when we were dating, that exercise is important to him. It's important to me too. But, when I see something getting more effort than I am in our relationship, how can I _not_ feel negatively about it? No, my stopping working out is not his fault. I made that choice, and I allowed the negative feelings to control my actions. But his choices also contributed.

It's like you guys are trying to find things to criticize me for. No, I'm not perfect. I've screwed up too. But I don't feel that I am in the wrong here, and my husband has said that he doesn't think I am either. 



> I think you are confusing some very different things.


So what would you suggest I do, then? I have my husband telling me that he _is_ lazy when it comes to meeting my needs...that it's not my fault, and that I haven't done anything to cause him to stop...and then I'm told here that I'm selfish, and that I'm forcing him to choose between me and the gym when I'm _not_.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Anonymous1too said:


> I think we have different ideas as to what an emotional connection is. I'm not really talking out external things being done.....I am talking about getting to know one another (that never stops, I believe) really listening to each other.....paying attention to subtle ques, and treating each other based on what we learn the other person prefers. That's not fleeting.


Hey OP, I read your profile and looking at your most recent posts, I have to say that you and your husband have a lot to learn about marriage. It's not an insult, it's just a fact of life because you are young (22?) and your concepts of marriage and love are a little on the shallower side (no offense!). You and your husband appear to be polar opposites to who I am. I'm an engineer so my POV is very different than yours. I believe I have a very good profile developed in my mind about you, and I think your assumptions about what true love entails is merely just the first step of a very long journey that you and your husband will (hopefully!) be taking together. All of those Shakesperean sonnets and other English poets writing about love construct this ethereal world that is (IMO) an illusion. The concepts of soul mates, love at first sight, etc can be distilled down to one statement: lust at first sight. That type of love that we read about in romance novels, fairy tales and poetry is actually biology at work. 

Cultivating real love within a marriage is hard work. Don't get me wrong, we need to feed those "animalistic" urges that we have for our spouses so that we develop a healthy sex life. Sexual bonding is a big part of marriage but there are a lot of other things too. It's toughing it out together when your kids are driving you up the wall. It's being best friends and wanting to be with your spouse because you want to spend time with your closest friend. It's communicating with each other and having stimulating conversations. It's knowing in your heart that you want to spend the rest of your life with your spouse because they are your lover, friend, psychologist, room mate and a lot of other things to each other. I'm not sure if I'm conveying this well enough, but I think you understand where I'm coming from.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Do you have specific needs or do you just need to feel loved?
> Sometimes I find that if I don't focus on any particular action coming my way, it is much easier to see the obvious indications of affection and love that might otherwise would have been missed. We often hold up signs of affection to our own standards, instead of putting them in the context of the time, energy, thought and sentiment of their source. I guess I could also put it this way...when you walk in the woods if you make a lot of noise looking for wildlife and birds, you won't see them. But if you keep quiet and trust that you're in the environment where you'll see these things, and don't go traipsing through the underbrush it's a whole different world, with what reveals itself to you. Some things aren't worth hunting doggedly. At this point, it seems that even if he meets your needs specifically, you might get the sense that he doesn't really 'mean' it for real, he's just doing it as part of an agreement...and if these needs are meant to make you feel cared for by your spouse, that feeling won't be there.


I'm sorry that I've come across that way. I can guarantee that that's not how it is. There are some specific things that I'd like him to do, and when he's done them in the past, he has seen me very, very happy. In fact, if he did those specific things I would feel contrary to what you say here; I would feel very loved, and very cherished because it would show me that he has listened and heard what I've said. 



> It's possible he might feel the same way, I'm sorry but if I knew I was getting a massage every day by someone who was more proud of keeping an agreement to meet a specific need even to the detriment of their own personal health, I would feel awkward and I might enjoy the massage, but not the reasonining behind why I got it. I might even daydream about the days when a massage was something special and unexpected and when it came from the heart, not the contract/agreement.


....Yet again, I don't give him the massages just so that I can rub it in his face that I'm the good spouse and he's the bad one. I give him the massages and I make his lunch because _I love him_. And yeah, I gave him a massage while I was in pain from my UTI. But it's not like there was anything I could do. I was under orders from the doctor not to take pain meds for it, I was on antibiotics, and my husband stayed with me in the hospital while I was getting tested. I wanted to show him that I appreciated the extremely boring four hours we were there. 



> Plus I would be frustrated because I would always know what I was getting...and this means the opportunity cost of some future novelty of getting something else as the relationship evolves. I would feel like my partner had locked me into being the same person in the future, forever and ever, as I was right now...and honestly, that's not how most people see themselves. People like to evolve, and being deprived in any way in a relationship of evolving, even evolving maybe to have a lower preference for massages than at present...would make me feel very constricted in the personal growth and evolution department.


Actually, our relationship is very open for change. His love language changes often. Quality time used to be his number one love language, and massages were rarely ever mentioned. He didn't have a job at this point in time, so he wasn't as sore. Then it changed to verbal affirmation when he got a part-time job. He wanted to know that I appreciated his work. We married while he was still unemployed, so I had to learn to tell him I appreciate him. Saying "I love you" isn't the same as "I appreciate the hard work you do", and I thought they were one and the same. Then, when he started painting during the Spring, Summer and Fall, he started asking me for massages. He was laid off and got his current job, which requires him to wake up extremely early, which is when the lunch requests came in. 

So, he is completely allowed to change in our relationship, and he knows that he has the freedom to do so. In The Five Love Languages book we have, the author talks about that and it's something we both learned to be open to with each other. I haven't changed much at all since we started dating. 



> Relationships are like wines, or cheese if you will...you don't get them by following a recipe. You get them by knowing the elements of winemaking (or cheesemaking) and using intuition along the way, including knowing how and when to serve them, how to culture, etc. It's a living thing. Save precision for things like Mercedes. And honestly, with a Mercedes or any car, you are going to get the same ride every time. After a while, the thrill wears off, you have to get a new car with different features, because the one you have is just the same old same old. Get what I'm saying?


Yes, but it doesn't really apply to us.



> I think you have a good intent, but the way you are going about it is so canned and planned, it has no soul. I am sure from your writing that's not really your intent. A relationship is a living entity, you can't ask it to follow rules in order to build meaning. The meaning should be the driving force behind what happens, and some of that might be recurring, for a while, comes and goes, evolves, maybe because a family/couple tradition, inside joke, etc. But to put the cart in front of the horse, is not just asking for trouble, it creates it. I think this whole thing of meeting specific needs has created a big problem.


_He_ has specific needs that are met. Why am I wrong for asking for the same thing? And when his needs change, he tells me and I have always adjusted to the change. Not easily, I'll grant that, but I never fought against it. The last year and a half his specific needs have been consistent, even when I've asked him if there's anything else he wants me to do for him. These few things are always the things he mentions. But since you mentioned it, I guess I'll ask him about it when he comes back upstairs. 



> Maybe MC can help to re-set and get back to basics of relating. Just because a poem is great doesn't mean it should be recited every day. Personally, I like being surprised by impulsive acts of connection and affection. Especially when they come on days I don't expect it. I think a little bit of insecurity in any relationship is somewhat normal and healthy. It encourages you to look after yourself.


Ehhh, I don't agree. And if you're referring to this planning of something special for me once a week, it was more his idea than mine, and he said that it would probably help to have it planned because, when left just up to him, it doesn't get done. We've tried that many times before. 



> I think about your H going to the gym and I think, now there is a wise person, he knows he is going to have to be responsible for himself every day for the rest of his life, so he is putting his health as a priority. Whereas you also had that priority, but somewhere you lost your feeling for it, it became muddled by something about love or needs or whatever. But you have a UTI and are still bending over backwards to do for your H. IC might also be helpful in addition to MC. I get the feeling that kind of behavior indicates some muddled boundaries regarding sense of self in a relationship. You have to have something of value to bring to the table, but you're willing to sacrifice what's of value (yourself) in getting it to the table, even serving others at the table. That just won't end well.


I see what you're saying. I think you're making a lot of assumptions without a lot of information about me personally, though. It's not like my marriage is my only identity and I live to please my husband. I'm in school pursuing a career of _my_ choosing, and one that doesn't pay very much either. I'm studying to be a teacher, and I want to teach British Literature. It's my passion. I love to write(as you can see by my username), and I absolutely love to read. I love all things British/English, and I've spent the summer studying specific eras in British/English history. I have my own passions outside of my husbands, and he has his outside of mine. And then we have passions that we both pursue. Although it's been a bit iffy the last two weeks(husband has been tired too...his work has had some drama that has particularly tired him out), exercise has been a growing passion between us. 

And about allowing spontaneity in the relationship...We are fairly spontaneous when it comes to dates and having fun together, going for late night drives, that sort of thing. But when it comes to specific emotional needs and requests, we _both_ think it's best for those to be regulated. We have both dropped the ball on this many times when it was left to spontaneity, and we've both been hurt over it. I just happened to "get it" faster than he has, and it has been painful to experience.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Yes, it is my responsibility to go to the gym. I never said it wasn't. But he _has_ made it a higher priority in his actions, then he made _me_. I came second to the gym, or at least, that's how things seemed to me based on his laziness to do things for me, and his energy to go to the gym. What else was I supposed to think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OP, it sounds like you're getting a little frustrated. I don't think anyone is trying to make you feel bad. People are just trying to help. I don't know if you remember my first post in this thread, but you need to seriously consider dialing back all of the efforts you are putting into pleasing your husband so much. I advised you to act more like an accountant and keep a tally. Maybe the more appropriate thing is to think more like an economist. You need to "maximize your profit" by ensuring that your Marginal Revenue (efforts your husband is putting into you) is equal to your Marginal Costs (efforts you are putting into your husband). You may see some of the theories floating around about "being more Alpha", "nice guy syndrome" and "excessive neediness leading to a loss of respect". A lot of people cling to rigidly to these theories but there is definitely some truth to some of the thoughts. What you risk having happen to you in this marriage is that you will lose the respect of your husband because you are: 1) going out of your way to make him happy and 2) not making him feel the consequences of him being too lazy to put more effort into your needs. If you allow this to continue, you risk having his perception of you change to that of the "needy doormat". Also, you'll build up resentment and will eventually "go Krakatoa". 

You need to balance out the exchange rate so to speak. Read up on the 180 plans that are floating around here. They may help you through this. I never did a formal 180 with my wife, but from what I've seen in some of the threads on this forum, it may be of benefit to you. It's more to help you than to affect him though, so bear that in mind. Bottom line is that you need to take back your respect. He's not giving it to you and you are not making him feel the consequences of his actions.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Hey OP, I read your profile and looking at your most recent posts, I have to say that you and your husband have a lot to learn about marriage. It's not an insult, it's just a fact of life because you are young (22?) and your concepts of marriage and love are a little on the shallower side (no offense!).


No offense taken. I don't particularly agree with the word "shallow"...but other than that, I have no argument against this. We are young, we haven't been married very long, and we have a lot to learn, I'm sure. 



> You and your husband appear to be polar opposites to who I am. I'm an engineer so my POV is very different than yours. I believe I have a very good profile developed in my mind about you, and I think your assumptions about what true love entails is merely just the first step of a very long journey that you and your husband will (hopefully!) be taking together. All of those Shakesperean sonnets and other English poets writing about love construct this ethereal world that is (IMO) an illusion. The concepts of soul mates, love at first sight, etc can be distilled down to one statement: lust at first sight. That type of love that we read about in romance novels, fairy tales and poetry is actually biology at work.


I was waiting for this to come up. I'm not surprised that it's been mentioned, but I have to be honest, it irks me a little. I really don't like the assumption that, because a girl likes classical literature that does tend toward the romantic side, that she _must_ believe in happily ever after and love at first sight. For the record, I don't believe in soul mates or love at first or happily ever after. I like Shakespeare, Jane Austen and other classical British novelists and writers, it's true. But I don't believe that their image of love is what true love is. I read them and like them for the language, the characters, the poetry, and the illusion of love the represent. I agree with you that it is an illusion, but it's one that is entertaining to read. I enjoy the fluttering feeling I get when the book ends happily, because in this life, the book doesn't always end happily. And I am well aware of that.

And, for the record, I don't read romance novels. Bleeehh. 



> Cultivating real love within a marriage is hard work. Don't get me wrong, we need to feed those "animalistic" urges that we have for our spouses so that we develop a healthy sex life. Sexual bonding is a big part of marriage but there are a lot of other things too. It's toughing it out together when your kids are driving you up the wall. It's being best friends and wanting to be with your spouse because you want to spend time with your closest friend. It's communicating with each other and having stimulating conversations. It's knowing in your heart that you want to spend the rest of your life with your spouse because they are your lover, friend, psychologist, room mate and a lot of other things to each other. I'm not sure if I'm conveying this well enough, but I think you understand where I'm coming from.


I understand, and although I certainly don't claim that my husband and I have all of these things down, I do believe we have the basic foundation. We are best friends, we can do basically anything together, we have been through our fair share of issues and have always come out on the other side, and we really do want to spend the rest of our lives together. We have a long ways to go. I, personally, don't believe that any couple gets to a place where they have "arrived" at success and no longer have to work at their marriage. My husband and I will always have to work at it, I know. And I know that my husband is going to fail again at something, as I will as well, since we're not perfect. But I expect us both to pick ourselves up, own to our mistakes, and do what we need to do to show love to each other.


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## nandosbella (Jul 6, 2012)

I think at this point you are beating a dead horse.... If you have told your hubs to his face black and white no doubt about it what to do and he hasnt made any efforts then you must decide if this is a deal breaker for you. If it is something you can live with...and in all honesty it doesnt seem like the end of the world... Just make sure you are truely content if you decide to continue... I think every woman has some degree of these expectations.... Yours might be more extreme... i dont think you will find many men willing to do what you are expecting.... especially without feeling forced or being told.... be content... Change your attitude... And appreciate the good qualities. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay nandos.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Also, I really hesitate to pull back the things I do for him. I've done this before and it's made things worse. Here are the reasons I'm hesitant:

1. My faith doesn't really condone it. I'm sure a lot of people are going to dislike that, but I can't help it. I believe in treating people the way I want to be treated, so if I want my needs met, I believe I should meet his. 

2. Despite the fact that I could be taken advantage of, I do feel like a good wife when I give him massages, make his lunches and have sex with him. When I don't meet his needs, I feel hypocritical...expecting my needs to be met when I'm not meeting his. 

3. Even when mine aren't met, it helps to know that I'm not in the wrong for it. At least I'm doing what I think is right, which does give me a sense of satisfaction. And I know I do these things out of love, not out of spite or a desire to "get" something back. And since I do them out of love, I don't think they should be eliminated. 

4. Lastly, if I were to suddenly stop because my needs weren't met, I'd feel like I was getting revenge...which is something I don't believe in.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Created
You are romance and love relation champion. This is just my opinion. Created you do not like mediocrity at all and you are a peddle to the metal in emotions and affirmations. I am not saying this wilth a hint of criticism, I am just expressing my assessment of you. Frankly you keep husband wife relationships from forgetting what the best is.

I am a man and you are a dream come true in many areas. However, I would feel guilty trying to keep up with your level of romance and love. I am not a 10 in love and romance but I wish that I was like you but I am not. Your husband should make you 
“feel like I'm (you are) the girl of your (his) dreams?"
Maybe your husband is a little like me in that he does not require nor does he have the nature to have love and romance at the 10 level.

Having said that I want to say that your husband could do better than he is doing to meet your needs. If he puts video games, cars, and the gym before you then he has his priority out of order. I have read where you have told of some real good things that he has done but his level of romance and love is a lot lower than yours. That is not a good enough excuse for him to not be more consistent in getting you flowers; It only takes a few minutes to stop and buy flowers and you can get then for under $5 most of the time. Making dinner once in a while is not too much to ask either nor is a bottle of wine. Watching a movie only takes 1-2 hours and so the total time would be about 3-4 hours a week. If he spends 3-4 hours a week on his car, games, and gym then Created is not asking for too much at all.

I know that those things may not be as exciting for him as it is for Created but she sure goes out of her way to make things exciting and relaxing for him. I hope that he learns to enjoy those things as much as Created but even if he does them because he knows that it pleases her then I think that Created would be much happier and so would he.

I hope that Created's husband reads some of the men posts on this forum. They suffer because their wife’s sexual response to them makes them very sad, mad, vengeful, and defeated. Created has a great attitude about sex and she is not all talk she takes action. So what if Created romance and love level is higher than his? She does not want anything that is bad but all that she wants is good. Read what she is asking for. She is not asking for diamonds or expensive items she is just into love and romance on the scale of 10 NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT in fact there is EVERYTHING RIGHT WITH THAT.

After reading several of Created posts I wonder how many men secretly wished that their wife had some of those traits that she has?

For Mr. Created
When you get down and/or sick who is going to be your side. Your car, your Gym, your games?

From what I have read the first one that will be by your side is your wife. Get your priorities in better order. from what I have read about you, you are a good man but you just need to tweak your priorities a bit. There was a very good reason that God made a woman for a man. God knows what is good for man. God did not create a gym, car, or game for man but woman. Do not get offended just do what you have said to be right.

*Geneses
18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him.”*


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

nandosbella said:


> I think at this point you are beating a dead horse.... If you have told your hubs to his face black and white no doubt about it what to do and he hasnt made any efforts then you must decide if this is a deal breaker for you. If it is something you can live with...and in all honesty it doesnt seem like the end of the world... Just make sure you are truely content if you decide to continue... I think every woman has some degree of these expectations.... Yours might be more extreme... i dont think you will find many men willing to do what you are expecting.... , i especially without feeling forced or being told.... be content... Change your attitude... And appreciate the good qualities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've been thinking about this and trying to articulate how I feel about it and I think the above post comes pretty close actually.

Created2Write, I am 40 years old. I have been married to my husband for 10 years, we have been together for more than 20. He is the love of my life, we have a very happy relationship.

But, if there had been sites like this when I was 22, I could have had similar complaints. Both my husband and I have physical touch as our top love language, but my second most important is words of affirmation, followed by gifts whereas he doesn't attach any real importance to those at all.

He doesn't compliment my appearance, unless it is really unusually good, like on our wedding day. He tells me he loves me, but rarely spontaneously. He does write lovely stuff, but only in cards on special occasions.

There have been times in the past where I have complained about this, and he has made an effort, but it doesn't come naturally to him and it feels forced and strange. Any kind of requirement about frequency or anything would not work it wouldn't feel sincere.

So I have trained myself to see and feel all the things he does do to show me he loves me. Because I know he does, he has stayed steadfastly by my side through happy, sad and difficult times. He's here, he's committed, he supports me in everything I do or want to do.

We have fun together, it's not work in any way. We compromise automatically I think. I don't ask for more than he can joyfully give and vice versa. 

And I don't know about the top priority thing. We have young children anyway, so they kind of get top spot, but I don't think I need to be his number one consideration. I need him to love me, value me and be considerate of my feelings within reason. But if he wanted to spend an hour a day on a hobby, that would be fine with me. We have designated movie and take away night on Friday, and date nights on Saturdays, although we don't actually leave our house. 

I also think you're doing too much for him. Making his lunch every day and massaging him even when you're sick and in pain is not reasonable. And he won't keep appreciating it either, he'll just be annoyed if it doesn't get done for some reason.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

C2W,
I have read your initial post, an and few others.
I know that some may not agree with what I'm about to say, but I am trying o give you an insight into your " situation."
A quick answer to your question is ,
No. You are not really doing anything wrong. You have expectations, given the fact that you have done certain things in the relationship.
But humans are complex creatures.
Men can sometimes be like that. Sometimes it may appear that we are self centred , and not doing enough to meet the emotional needs of our spouses [ lazy ], and it may in fact be true in some cases.
But nevertheless, the key is effective communication.
The dynamics of a man's world is different to that of a woman's world.
Many times early in our marriage ,my wife and I have had serious arguments and disagreements. Only to find out later that the reason for the argument was flawed, and it was really a huge misunderstanding.
Both of us were wrong , and our expectations were not being met., so we were both heading down the wrong path , arguing.
A lot of negative energy.
What works for us sometimes is to observe when things begin to escalate, and stop. Find out what's going on and seek to remedy it, before it reaches the point where tempers flare.

Again , effective communication is the key.
Every man is supposed to know what his wife likes in terms of romance [ not sex ], what actually " makes her tick" , but sometimes this can be difficult for us men.

Note that you should not always be the one giving ' favours " and giving in.
He has a huge part to play.
If there are no problems in the sex department and sex is amongst his top priorities,then he must reciprocate in satisfying some of your top priorities/ needs , or else you will feel resentfull and begin to loose attraction.

But everything takes time , and marriage takes a whole lot of emotional work. Sometimes we just have to know how and when to compromise. Know what is real and what is not., given the situation.
Just my two cents.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> C2W,
> I have read your initial post, an and few others.
> I know that some may not agree with what I'm about to say, but I am trying o give you an insight into your " situation."
> A quick answer to your question is ,
> ...


I agree, and this has been my advice to her in a few of my posts. The psychology is similar to the "Beta Male" and the BS that is discussed over on the CWI forum. IDK, maybe there is a little bit of the martyr complex going on here...but it seems like the OP wants to make excuses for why she can't use the leverage she has to make positive changes in the marriage. 

OP think about this: you may still want to please your husband based on your faith and your love for him. However, keep in mind that the dynamics in play here if you keep going down this path without seeing any changes will be like poison to your marriage. It may be a slow working poison but still caustic in the long term. Those poisons are 1) resentment and 2) loss of respect (taken for granted). Think about it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> Created
> You are romance and love relation champion. This is just my opinion. Created you do not like mediocrity at all and you are a peddle to the metal in emotions and affirmations. I am not saying this wilth a hint of criticism, I am just expressing my assessment of you. Frankly you keep husband wife relationships from forgetting what the best is.
> 
> I am a man and you are a dream come true in many areas. However, I would feel guilty trying to keep up with your level of romance and love. I am not a 10 in love and romance but I wish that I was like you but I am not. Your husband should make you
> ...




Consider that he is struggling to "out do" each previous efforts. I am similar to C2W's husband in that I am not a romantic either, but do have my moments. But afterward a great idea, I struggle with the idea that the simple flowers will be enough the next time. I want to do something similar to my creative idea and come up empty. So rather than go back to flowers or something small, I churn, doing nothing while trying to come up with something.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> Created
> You are romance and love relation champion. This is just my opinion. Created you do not like mediocrity at all and you are a peddle to the metal in emotions and affirmations. I am not saying this wilth a hint of criticism, I am just expressing my assessment of you. Frankly you keep husband wife relationships from forgetting what the best is.
> 
> I am a man and you are a dream come true in many areas. However, I would feel guilty trying to keep up with your level of romance and love. I am not a 10 in love and romance but I wish that I was like you but I am not. Your husband should make you
> ...


This is definitely accurate. My parents were on the more romantic side, and his parents were definitely not. He's never really known or learned or seen what it's like, aside from the initial romantic phaze at the start of a new relationship. I also think that when it comes to his own romantic ideas, he's insecure about whether or not I'll like it, even though I always do. I try my best to overreact when he does things for me so that he has a good amount of positive reinforcement.



> Having said that I want to say that your husband could do better than he is doing to meet your needs. If he puts video games, cars, and the gym before you then he has his priority out of order. I have read where you have told of some real good things that he has done but his level of romance and love is a lot lower than yours. That is not a good enough excuse for him to not be more consistent in getting you flowers; It only takes a few minutes to stop and buy flowers and you can get then for under $5 most of the time. Making dinner once in a while is not too much to ask either nor is a bottle of wine. Watching a movie only takes 1-2 hours and so the total time would be about 3-4 hours a week. If he spends 3-4 hours a week on his car, games, and gym then Created is not asking for too much at all.


This was my reasoning as well. 



> I know that those things may not be as exciting for him as it is for Created but she sure goes out of her way to make things exciting and relaxing for him. I hope that he learns to enjoy those things as much as Created but even if he does them because he knows that it pleases her then I think that Created would be much happier and so would he.
> 
> I hope that Created's husband reads some of the men posts on this forum. They suffer because their wife’s sexual response to them makes them very sad, mad, vengeful, and defeated. Created has a great attitude about sex and she is not all talk she takes action. So what if Created romance and love level is higher than his? She does not want anything that is bad but all that she wants is good. Read what she is asking for. She is not asking for diamonds or expensive items she is just into love and romance on the scale of 10 NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT in fact there is EVERYTHING RIGHT WITH THAT.


Thank you.  



> After reading several of Created posts I wonder how many men secretly wished that their wife had some of those traits that she has?
> 
> For Mr. Created
> When you get down and/or sick who is going to be your side. Your car, your Gym, your games?
> ...


I read some of the responses I've had here to him last night, to see if maybe I am just being selfish and don't realize it, and after I read them I asked him if I'm wrong and he was adamant that I'm not. He said that this is entirely his issue that he needs to sort through, and he owns it. I will continue to take what others have said into count for the future, so that I don't get selfish or picky.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Lyris said:


> I've been thinking about this and trying to articulate how I feel about it and I think the above post comes pretty close actually.
> 
> Created2Write, I am 40 years old. I have been married to my husband for 10 years, we have been together for more than 20. He is the love of my life, we have a very happy relationship.
> 
> ...


Nor am I asking for too much from my husband, and those are his own words. Unless he's just been lying to me this whole time, which I doubt.



> And I don't know about the top priority thing. We have young children anyway, so they kind of get top spot, but I don't think I need to be his number one consideration. I need him to love me, value me and be considerate of my feelings within reason. But if he wanted to spend an hour a day on a hobby, that would be fine with me. We have designated movie and take away night on Friday, and date nights on Saturdays, although we don't actually leave our house.


I don't mind if he wants to spend an hour a day on a hobby, either. But I definitely think I should be his number one. We don't have kids yet, so there's no reason for me to come second to anything.



> I also think you're doing too much for him. Making his lunch every day and massaging him even when you're sick and in pain is not reasonable. And he won't keep appreciating it either, he'll just be annoyed if it doesn't get done for some reason.


A few different people have said this as well.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> C2W,
> I have read your initial post, an and few others.
> I know that some may not agree with what I'm about to say, but I am trying o give you an insight into your " situation."
> A quick answer to your question is ,
> ...


Thank you, CM. This is good insight, and it's something my husband and I are both learning. Communication is something he and I are still working on. Sometimes we're good at it, other times we're just not. So it's a work in progress.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree, and this has been my advice to her in a few of my posts. The psychology is similar to the "Beta Male" and the BS that is discussed over on the CWI forum. IDK, maybe there is a little bit of the martyr complex going on here...but it seems like the OP wants to make excuses for why she can't use the leverage she has to make positive changes in the marriage.
> 
> OP think about this: you may still want to please your husband based on your faith and your love for him. However, keep in mind that the dynamics in play here if you keep going down this path without seeing any changes will be like poison to your marriage. It may be a slow working poison but still caustic in the long term. Those poisons are 1) resentment and 2) loss of respect (taken for granted). Think about it.


I have thought about it. The thing is, _we've tried this already_. Nothing changed. He didn't even try to improve his priorities. Months went by with neither one of us getting anything we needed. I even reduced sex to once a week, if that. I eventually told him, "Okay, fine. Every time you meet my needs, I'll meet yours and give you a massage." He said that was a great idea and it would work. He could, if played right, get a massage every day. Good incentive, right? Nope. He still didn't try anything. Didn't change, didn't even buy me a card at the dollar tree. I asked him why and he said that I wasn't meeting his needs either, why did I expect him to meet mine? It was probably the worst time in our marriage and I really, really, don't want to go back to it. 

This is the only thing we haven't tried, outside of MC, and I want to see if this has a greater effect than any of the other failed attempts. You can see it as an excuse if you like, but if this produces a greater change from him, then it's the method I will use from now on. If not, MC will be in order and some serious soul searching will be on his plate.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Consider that he is struggling to "out do" each previous efforts. I am similar to C2W's husband in that I am not a romantic either, but do have my moments. But afterward a great idea, I struggle with the idea that the simple flowers will be enough the next time. I want to do something similar to my creative idea and come up empty. So rather than go back to flowers or something small, I churn, doing nothing while trying to come up with something.


I think this could be part of his issue too. I know he wants to outdo his previous efforts, which I don't need him to do. Taking me to a nicer restaurant than normal would do just fine for that. Or even giving me twenty bucks for a day at the spa. Those things are rare, and really special when they happen.  

I guess it's just that...before we married he was really, really romantic. When he decided to propose he planned out this elaborate day, didn't even tell me he bought a ring, and we went hiking in the mountains near us where there are like, over twenty waterfalls within a nine mile radius. We went behind one and he got on one knee and proposed. Utterly romantic. Stole my heart away. And then after marriage things just stopped...


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread (you sure are Created2Write ) How old are you two?

He sounds a bit like me early on. I was just too immature (23) and inexperienced (she my first LT relationship). Talking honestly and sex kept it going (it wasn't bad but coulda been much better). I'm so glad she hung in there, it was worth it. I hope you'll get their sooner, and I think TAM will help.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

By C2W


> I read some of the responses I've had here to him last night, to see if maybe I am just being selfish and don't realize it, and after I read them I asked him if I'm wrong and he was adamant that I'm not. *He said that this is entirely his issue that he needs to sort through, and he owns it*. I will continue to take what others have said into count for the future, so that I don't get selfish or picky.



I was right! Mr. Created (Jason?) is defiantly a good man!
He is also a man that can take constructive suggestions and take full responsibility for his part.

Sounds likeC2W and her communication skills have got them going in the right direction.

Now Mr. Created (Jason) *GETTER DONE!*


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread (you sure are Created2Write ) How old are you two?


Yeah, I tend to write novels when I respond to people online. lol. I'm 23 and he is 24.



> He sounds a bit like me early on. I was just too immature (23) and inexperienced (she my first LT relationship). Talking honestly and sex kept it going (it wasn't bad but coulda been much better). I'm so glad she hung in there, it was worth it. I hope you'll get their sooner, and I think TAM will help.


I'm hoping this will be it as well.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> By C2W
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, his name is Jason. 

I'll let him know what you've said too Mr. Blunt once I get home from work.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> I think this could be part of his issue too. I know he wants to outdo his previous efforts, which I don't need him to do. Taking me to a nicer restaurant than normal would do just fine for that. Or even giving me twenty bucks for a day at the spa. Those things are rare, and really special when they happen.
> 
> I guess it's just that...before we married he was really, really romantic. When he decided to propose he planned out this elaborate day, didn't even tell me he bought a ring, and we went hiking in the mountains near us where there are like, over twenty waterfalls within a nine mile radius. We went behind one and he got on one knee and proposed. Utterly romantic. Stole my heart away. And then after marriage things just stopped...


He stopped dating you. Unortunately a very common problem (and one that I fell into). This may be where your doing so much for him hurts you. He may have gotten lazy, or naive or just does not get it or some combination. But he is thinking he already has you so he does not need to do anything else. 

Perhaps telling him you need him to keep dating you will get through to him.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> He stopped dating you. Unortunately a very common problem (and one that I fell into). This may be where your doing so much for him hurts you. He may have gotten lazy, or naive or just does not get it or some combination. But he is thinking he already has you so he does not need to do anything else.
> 
> Perhaps telling him you need him to keep dating you will get through to him.


I'll try wording it like that and see if it makes more sense to him.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

No it sounds like you are doing nothing wrong. You get what you put out by and large so that is all i can say i suggest you two keep talking about these issues? Hopefully he puts more effort in.

Best of luck


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

I can't tell if it's just that I'm not a "romantic" person, or that what you are looking for is that "feeling" that comes from infatuation (which.....like you mentioned....doesn't have any lasting value).

I don't understand the concept of "he's not dating you anymore". Of course he's not----you're married. There should be a difference between when you were dating....and now (besides the sexual relationship). I think that's just something that's used to sell books and get people into seminars (personally). I don't mean that being married is boring, either. It's just that there ought to be security (not complacency) and fun in everyday things (my opinion). 

I don't mean to offend you....but, it really sounds as if you are using the term "romance" (and the ideologies behind it) as a substitute for the kind of love that comes from knowing a person over time.....having them be faithful to you.....someone you can trust....and someone that's added to your life by just being their own person---someone you look up to and appreciate. Infatuation is something you have to continually repeat.....love lasts, and has lasting effects.

**There are "feelings" associated with love as well.....so, please don't take my post to mean that I'm saying that being emotional is wrong. It's not. Discounting the sense that something is "off" would be wrong....IMO. I just am of the opinion (and admit that I can be wrong) that you are looking at the wrong thing, and thus will never be satisfied (until you recognize the true issue). IOW........if you are dehydrated, yet think you need a Starbuck's coffee---loaded with sugar & caffeine---you are still going to be thirsty.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Can you relate to some of this (mostly the bolded)?



> When I first learned about intimacy levels, I was a sexual health educator going into schools and colleges teaching young people about saving sex for marriage. But God, the ultimate multi-tasker, began using what I was teaching others to show me what was happening in my own marriage. My husband and I had sex before we were married…very early in our relationship. Here we were now around 20 years married, and I was struggling with two things. First, I didn’t enjoy sex, and couldn’t understand why. Second, *I didn’t feel emotionally close to my husband. In fact, I often felt lonely in my marriage and desired that we could share more deeply with each other*.





> *I never felt completely known by my husband, because he didn’t really know me, and I didn’t know him. The early sex had robbed us both of experiencing the highest level of intimacy* and here we were 20 years later, still speaking for the most part just below the feeling level. Yes, we’d go there sometimes, but it was scary when it started creating conflict, and so I’d scurry back to that safe place…talking about the kids, money, what we’d do for the weekend.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C2W,
I pulled a bad recollection from the memory bank when I read your post yesterday. My response was over the top. I apologize. Consider it retracted. 

I understand why you feel deprioritized. And your H is the final authority on his effort level. If he acknowledges being lazy - he is by definition being lazy. 

Your anxiety is highly correlated to the imbalance in your respective levels of effort. You will feel better if you exercise more. That doesn't mean you should go to the gym if you do not wish to. It means that when you are feeling anxious the last thing in the world you want to inflict on yourself is an absence of endorphines. I say this from personal experience, not from textbook reading. 

Peace




Created2Write said:


> Yes, it is my responsibility to go to the gym. I never said it wasn't. But he _has_ made it a higher priority in his actions, then he made _me_. I came second to the gym, or at least, that's how things seemed to me based on his laziness to do things for me, and his energy to go to the gym. What else was I supposed to think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I'll try wording it like that and see if it makes more sense to him.


Wording... In the "What are your expectations?" thread I just mentioned I had to ask my wife to "use little words". It made me feel an idiot but it really helped me with the hear/listen thing. May or may not be an issue for you(s).


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> C2W,
> I pulled a bad recollection from the memory bank when I read your post yesterday. My response was over the top. I apologize. Consider it retracted.
> 
> I understand why you feel deprioritized. And your H is the final authority on his effort level. If he acknowledges being lazy - he is by definition being lazy.
> ...


Yesterday hubs and I went for a short run to get ourselves back in the game. My body reacted terribly to it..._but_ I know the benefits will be worth the pain. I'm anxious to get back into the grove. I ran a couple 5k's this summer and tore up my shins, so now that they've healed back up my legs don't feel like they're going to fall off. lol. And that sure helps.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anonomous...a little. I feel like we _know_ each other, but I feel that when it comes to the intimacy of our relationship, we're at a stand still. And not necessarily sex, although my health issues have made it difficult.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anonymous1too said:


> I don't understand the concept of "he's not dating you anymore". Of course he's not----you're married. There should be a difference between when you were dating....and now (besides the sexual relationship). I think that's just something that's used to sell books and get people into seminars (personally). I don't mean that being married is boring, either. It's just that there ought to be security (not complacency) and fun in everyday things (my opinion).


Let me clarify what I mean by dating. I am talking about active steps to 1) connect with and 2) impress your partner. To often, couples think that once the marriage occurs, everything is roses. Its not. You live with the other person, you see their bad habits, and it becomes easy to sit on the couch in your awful clothes and not engage.

An important part of dating is connecting with your significant other. Continuing to work on connecting is important, because people continue to change even after marriage. By connecting, you keep up with that change and work to change together.

Another important part of dating is impressing your SO. She wants me to think she is the hottest thing around. I want her to think that I am a blast to hang around with. It keeps excitement in the relationship. Hanging out on the couch watching reruns of Seinfeld while in my boxers and stained t-shirt does not really send that message.

Dating your spouse does not mean romantic candlelight dinners every night, or roses every weekend. It does mean making sure that you do some fun date type things fairly regularly. Stuff like going to an arcade, or hiking in the park or writing her a corny love letter. Life is full of stress and crap. Dating your spouse helps to give you a place where you can have fun with the one you love.


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## Anonymous1too (Aug 28, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Let me clarify what I mean by dating. I am talking about active steps to 1) connect with and 2) impress your partner. To often, couples think that once the marriage occurs, everything is roses. Its not. You live with the other person, you see their bad habits, and it becomes easy to sit on the couch in your awful clothes and not engage.
> 
> An important part of dating is *connecting with your significant other*[/B]. Continuing to work on connecting is important, because people continue to change even after marriage. By connecting, you keep up with that change and work to change together[/B].
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you on the need to connect---engage---be interested. That comes from an internal motivation....and that's what I'm trying to express---not all people recognize the importance of that in relationships. Some see marriage as the finish line......not an ever-growing.....ever-changing bond that needs attention and focus. 

With the ones that perceive marriage as the finish line (especially with the 'there's no going back' philosophy) there can be very little motivation to genuinely connect. They will feign the effort (to make the complaints stop), but until they are motivated from within.....there's going to be very little growth and change. I think that the efforts to motivate externally only bring more resentment and cause a greater gap, too. 

Another thing about trying to motivate externally is......I think the focus is on the means (how are we going to get there)....and not the attitude. Created2Write had posted a while back saying that their dates are dull (or something along those lines). I think that's because of (again....just throwing speculation out there) the lack of a mutual motivation towards connecting.....being engaged....and making even the mundane.... memorable. If two people are committed to that---then even going to the grocery store can be a "date" that's a cherished memory. 

I love your last line.....and if that were everyone's motivation for marriage, I doubt we'd have the divorce rate we have. The trouble is (I believe)....not everyone has that as their attitude or aim.

ETA~ There are going to be times that there will be a conflict over what's more important: connecting or having fun. IMO....how one chooses is based on whether they're more interested in immediate gratification or short-term sacrifice for long-term gain. Immediate gratification doesn't bode well for the long term.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Update:

We move into our new place tomorrow. It's closer to his work(right across the street, actually) so he won't be as tired when he comes home, and he won't have over an hour in commute time. I'm excited, because this means more one-on-one time together, in our new place. That in and of itself is romantic and fulfilling. 

We also closed our account with our old gym, and opened one with a new gym that is a thousand times better. Our old gym had three functioning treadmills, and one bike for cardio. Bleh. This new gym has a whole room dedicated to cardio alone; treadmills, stair masters, allypticals(I don't know how to spell that word), different kinds of bikes, etc. And they have a whole room for weight training, which is my husband's passion. And all of the classes are included in the monthly cost(whoo!) _and_ we're only paying four dollars more a month. 

I want us both to be healthy and happy. Exercise is important to him, and deep down it truly is important to me. My mom was very overweight the majority of my childhood and teen years, and she had no fashion sense, and I was embarrassed to be seen with her in public. I don't want my husband to be embarrassed of his wife, and I don't want to become obese(I'm a healthy weight currently) and have to lose hundreds of pounds, when I can prevent that from happening now. I also hope that, by going to the gym together, we can enjoy each others successes. 

As far as my needs go, things have been...well, on the back burner. Moving is a lot of work. He's had to work overtime everyday for the last two weeks, so when he comes home he usually eats, and we relax before going to bed. I'm hoping that after the move things will adjust. 

He did buy me some surprise jewelry online from a discounted website about three weeks ago. It's a beautiful pearl necklace with matching earrings, and he wrote me another sonnet(I did not expect that!!). Even without the jewelry, the sonnet would have been more than enough. I know it took him a while to write. _And_ he promised to memorize my favorite love poem, so that he could recite it to me.  That was his own idea, too. 

I think that once things get settled and we have a schedule we're committed to, our relationship will become more personal than it has been lately. My sex drive has come back rather strongly, and it didn't take much from him. I really, really want us to be healthy people in a healthy relationship.


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