# 'What's worked for me' - the man version



## nader (May 4, 2011)

Someone suggested that there be a men's version of LadyFrog's thread, so I thought I'd bite. These are rules I try really hard to live by.. I am no master, but I feel like if I could get these things down it would go a long way in my marriage.

*

Unless you are asleep or sick, never reject your wife's advances! Don't ever blow her off; think about when it would be reasonable for your wife to turn you down, and when you would be upset. if you absolutely can't, offer a rain-check for the soonest possible time you can do it.
Unless your wife just hates it, get really good at oral and do it as often as she will let you. Real men love going down on their wives. There is lots of written material on the subject if you feel like being cerebral about it; but more often than not, your instinct is your best guide. It's all about the golden rule here.. do unto others.
Don't ever resort to begging for sex; learn to seize a good opportunity and make it happen. Easier said than done!
Limit masturbation and porn habits to a bare minimum if any at all; the last thing you want is to already be spent when your willing wife is ready for you. Save it for cold spells when you know you're not going to get any, and even then, porn is sadly overrated and plays tricks on your mind. 
Don't whine when you don't always get your way. At the same time, stand up for yourself. Your needs and desires are legitimate, and as long as you aren't a scumbag, your wife should be meeting them as much as is reasonably possible. It's hard to convey this without coming across as needy or whiny; I'm open to suggestions for how to do this!
*


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Being asleep is not a good exuse!


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

my first two points are easyfor me. I can't imagine turning my wife down for sex, asleep or awake... but if my wife was really really HD it might be more of a challenge. And oral is yummy, on me and on her.

I'll also add that 


watching romantic chick flicks with your wife, glee, or anything that turns your wife on, however lame you think it is, will often help you out in the bedroom later.
Also, upgrade your wardrobe. There's a fairly good chance that most of your clothes suck. And if she wants to dress you like a Ken doll, relax, be a good sport and enjoy the attention.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I would add a couple of more points:

1. Don't stop dating your wife. Keep doing the types of stuff you did when you first pursued her and made her feel special. Don't stop doing that.

2. Avoid loosing the guy she married. It is all to easy to get drawn into the job of being a husband and father. This often means the fun qualities that attracted her in the first place get placed to the side. While some of that is necessary, don't loose all of them. She liked them in the beginning, so make sure that you keep some of them to keep her attracted.


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Being asleep is not a good exuse!


I told my wife, wake my ass up!


I'd add this

Lots of non-sexual contact, like cuddling, and give her sexual release with NO expectation of return.

I've gone down, satisfied her and went to work.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

This is why the husband and me had such a great weekend. Instead of flopping on the couch the entire time, we went out and did stuff. It was great!


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Wake up every morning and ask yourself, "What can I do today that will make my wife smile and/or laugh?"

Then do it.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

nader said:


> Someone suggested that there be a men's version of LadyFrog's thread, so I thought I'd bite. These are rules I try really hard to live by.. I am no master, but I feel like if I could get these things down it would go a long way in my marriage.
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Call me a contrarian. What a crock!!!! Of course every decent man does all the above. Does it really matter if your wife says no....

Let me add..... Make sure she has an orgasm (or two) everytime and it is all about her.

How about adding silly things, like brush your teeth, continue to be hygienic, be the primary breadwinner, maintain your appearance, be loving, attentive, emotionally available, cleanly, buy little things such as flowers & surprises on a consistent basis.......

Don't forget that foreplay starts not when you get in bed, but 168 to 336 hours in advance, and make sure you do or don't do any of the following to ruin the mood:


leave the toilet seat up
leave crumbs on the counter
spill anything on the floor
say anything your spouse disagrees with to the kids
watch her shows patiently (that you are indifferent to), while limiting your sports watching or the dreck you watch that she finds distasteful
make sure the house is clean and that you've done at least your share so she doesn't tell you about what you haven't done
all the chores & lists she's made for you have been completed
understand that she is not always in the mood, but that 20th load of laundry with 8 pairs of socks and 2 shirts have to be tended to and that sex is on the backburner until it is done, or have tired her out and now she can't find the time or the moment has past
8 hours of sleep minimum (7:45 after a quick 15 minute romp) will result in her being exhausted the next day
keep boys time to a minimum, which includes recreation or fun
Never question a purchase or when she wants to spend money on something you think isn't necessary or required
Listen to her and while you may disagree, bite your tongue or very carefully make comments, without ever saying she may be wrong 

Once you've followed those rules, you may have sex and then start the clock again (ie. foreplay).....


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Call me a contrarian. What a crock!!!! Of course every decent man does all the above. Does it really matter if your wife says no....
> 
> Let me add..... Make sure she has an orgasm (or two) everytime and it is all about her.
> 
> ...


:lol:

Sounds like you're married to my husband's ex-wife!


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> C
> 
> Don't forget that foreplay starts not when you get in bed, but 168 to 336 hours in advance, and make sure you don't do any of the following to ruin the mood:
> 
> ...



LOL

NO you forgot, the golden rule, if you follow all the rules, then that is just being manipulative and of course sex is out of the question because that is just a turn off.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> LOL
> 
> NO you forgot, the golden rule, if you follow all the rules, then that is just being manipulative and of course sex is out of the question because that is just a turn off.


And I do have sex...... But my wife knows exactly why I do all the above. Still I screw up any of those rules and it's back to square one making up from any egregious error I committed.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And I do have sex...... But my wife knows exactly why I do all the above. Still I screw up any of those rules and it's back to square one making up from any egregious error I committed.


Please tell me you are joking. Women like this can't possibly exist...


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Please tell me you are joking. Women like this can't possibly exist...


And how old are you (or how long together and with children)? I am shocked to believe that there women like you and other s on TAM posting about their wonderful/open active sex lives after 20+ years.

My wife would then ask what self esteem issues you have to put up with that.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And how old are you (or how long together and with children)? I am shocked to believe that there women like you and other s on TAM posting about their wonderful/open active sex lives after 20+ years.
> 
> My wife would then ask what self esteem issues you have to put up with that.



Wow, if that is how she viewed sex, that would end it for me. I don't need that kind of self-abuse.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And how old are you (or how long together and with children)? I am shocked to believe that there women like you and other s on TAM posting about their wonderful/open active sex lives after 20+ years.
> 
> My wife would then ask what self esteem issues you have to put up with that.


You've got to be kidding me...I'm 41, married 6 months, and our sex life is in the toilet. You must have me confused with someone else, because if there's one thing I've never posted about, it's how wonderful my sex life is.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

I was all hopeful and optimistic posting this yesterday, only to have my plans for the evening shattered at the mention of a headache. for my wife, the #1 issue is being tired. She works on her feet, we have a 1 year old, and she has reason to be legitimately tired.. but she's going to be tired no matter how much sleep she gets, so 15-30 minutes of lovemaking is not going to make it any worse! 

and then sometimes, like last night, when she's not naturally tired, she will have some muscle pain or a headache, and take something for pain that will knock her out at 8:30. 

Last night there was no regular advil or ibuprofen to be found at the house, so she took Tylenol PM, knowing full well that its' been over a week since we've had sex.. she has the day off tomorrow.. she's promised me rainchecks, promised to "make it up to me," and then she takes the TPM and acts shocked when I get upset.

It is really trying my patience, to say the least. I cant' say I've handled it very well or managed to stick to my 'no whining' rule, but I shouldn't be letting it slide either. What bothers me more is that she isn't the least bit apologetic; it doesn't seem to bother her at all that she is leaving me out in the cold. I don't feel loved when I don't feel desired; I feel reduced to just another thing keeping her from getting her precious sleep. When she gets like this it's like talking to a wall. 

If I soften my tone, speak gently and honestly, sometimes she'll break down get teary eyed and say 'I'm sorry, it's not you, etc.' but then the next night she'll do the same thing.

So my 'what's worked' list doesn't really always work. I guess it just comes and goes in cycles.. we were doing pretty well there for awhile but ever since her last period it's been slim pickings.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> Wow, if that is how she viewed sex, that would end it for me. I don't need that kind of self-abuse.


What I meant to say is if I showed her the OP from ladyfrogflyaway in the other thread, she'd question the issues she and other women who are so selfless to their spouses (same with the women having sex 3X's/day with their husbands and not thinking there are any issues).

My wife enjoys sex, admits it. She just does not go out of her way to have it and it is well down on her "to do" list


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> You've got to be kidding me...I'm 41, married 6 months, and our sex life is in the toilet. You must have me confused with someone else, because if there's one thing I've never posted about, it's how wonderful my sex life is.


Sorry, too many people and too easily confused. Most people though I think are closer to my spouse then the ther way (or so I convince myself).

My spouse will tell me about all the other spouses who joke about their husbands chasing them around the house for sex or rolling their eyes at the thought f it. Her single friends will complain about the lack of sex or good men. 

My male friends who are divorced/separated and in newer relationships all seem to be doing well (or at least in my realistic world). Those in longish marriages with younger kids all just laugh about sex (or lack thereof). Only one friend who I didn't expect to be sexual gets regular sex from what I can tell.....

Those having good sex, keep their mouths shut (and not many of them).


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Those having good sex, keep their mouths shut (and not many of them).


I've been pretty open here. I'll be open again here and just say my sex life is great. We've been married for 27 years. 2 of our 3 kids are out on their own. The cycles for us can be pretty much summarized like this:

We were young and naive, but adventurous our first couple of years. We were married 6 months before we learned how to make my wife orgasm.

Her drive dropped off when she was pregnant with our first, but part of it was cultural as she was unsure it was okay to have too much sex while pregnant. She never cut me off, but it was down to about once every 2 weeks.

Back to normal between pregnancies.

She was WILD during her second pregnancy - wore me out in a very, very good way.

I was never deprived, but when her father was diagnosed with stomach cancer, and wasted away to his death, she slipped into depression. This was the only time I was ever really in want ... but her need was greater still. When she came out of it, her sex drive resumed.

We had some ups and downs, but I was still never deprived. At about the 23 year mark in our marriage, her drive escalated and continues to be very high. We have our romantic sex, quickies, and wildly passionate, and some times that don't really fit any of them. I can chase her, and some days, she jumps me. I spend time romacing her with no strings attached, and sometimes that turns into a night of great sex. Sometimes it doesn't.

Most weeks, we have intercourse 2 or 3 times with other sex play on other nights. She continues to be adventurous with me even pushing my boundaries sometimes still. 

What more can I say. I'm using a lot of words to say that at 27 years of marriage, our sex life is great! absolutely great!

I realize you don't know me, but now you have at least 2 people you can point to who are in long term relationships, and their sex life is great. 

As for self esteem, my wife is one of the happiest, most active, and most playful people I know. I love being around her - she's a great friend. She sure seems to me to have good self esteem .


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Not crazy, but maybe to the average couple, it might sound a little over the top...just a little too perfect. Just sayin'...!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

nader said:


> I was all hopeful and optimistic posting this yesterday, only to have my plans for the evening shattered at the mention of a headache. for my wife, the #1 issue is being tired. She works on her feet, we have a 1 year old, and she has reason to be legitimately tired.. but she's going to be tired no matter how much sleep she gets, so 15-30 minutes of lovemaking is not going to make it any worse!
> 
> and then sometimes, like last night, when she's not naturally tired, she will have some muscle pain or a headache, and take something for pain that will knock her out at 8:30.
> 
> ...


I ran into this very situation about six months ago. Our sex life had been very stale, until I started working on some things (adding the “alpha”, initiating more, etc.). Things were going well for 6-9 months, then she lapsed back into putting me off with a rain-check and then not following through. Her excuses in isolation were legitimate, but taken as a whole were all too familiar. So I had to figure out how to nip this in the bud.

First, since I was staring at the ceiling frustrated while she was sleeping like a baby, I took a hard look at myself. I had been working on myself along the lines of NMMNG and MMSL (and in fact had just purchased the latter), and wanted to make sure I had not lapsed. I did identify a couple of things that I was not doing as well as I could be, but nothing real major.

Second, I thought out how I wanted to react to this. While my reaction to her rejection was okay, it was too whiny, so that was my first step. Next, I turned down the temperature. I still did the things I needed to do with the kids and the house, but I gave her space. I stopped pursuing and touching like I had been. There were fewer I love you’s initiated from me. I played pool in the basement and went to the gym at night. 

This worked for me, as she was approaching me within two days over what was wrong and how she wanted less distance. I explained that I needed to look after myself because she did not seem interested in the job right now. She apologized and we had great sex that night. We have also continued that through today.

To her credit, she has not lapsed back into that habit. When she has given me a raincheck, she has been great at following through, to the point of being upset when she could not (I had caught the flu and was out that evening). I also took this as a reminder that I need to be vigilant that I don’t lapse into my bad habits.

I won’t guarantee that this will work for you, but your situation was so familiar that I thought to share my resolution.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Please tell me you are joking. Women like this can't possibly exist...





LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I hope you're being tongue-in-cheek, because if this is for real, and she goes all Cujo on your *ss for this stuff, she is a serious nutcase.
> 
> I've said it before, I'll keep saying it...I don't understand these wives.


I've got a friend who reckon's it's like of those stupid word games where you have to repeat all the words in exactly the right order, adding other words at the exact right place, and if you get one wrong, you go right back to the start...

It isn't that rare.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Where is it written that one spouse gets to hold all the sexual cards and the other spouse has to just take the hand they're dealt?


Because the one spouse can't MAKE the other do anything. If you want it three times a week and the other partner wants it once a month, you can't make them do it three times a week. If one partner wants oral and the other doesn't, the "wanter" can't make the other do it.


> See, this is the part of these sexless or low-sex marriage situations I take such issue with. If one partner KNOWS that something they are doing (or not doing) is making the other partner unhappy, shouldn't they fix it? Or at least TRY? Isn't that what love is?


It assumes they know, and care. But remember, not fixing it is power



> You have to jump through all these ridiculous hoops or you don't get any? WTH is that? You're not a child. I used to be a lot like your wife, getting all upset about stupid things, and I STILL had my dh telling me he loved me. Thank HEAVEN I pulled my head out of my you-know-where.


Just thing for a moment - you decided to change. Lots of people don't. Why would they? They get told "ILY" and don't have to do anything.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I still maintain that there is nothing that exists for women with the 'no sex' problem. No amount of MMSL or NMMNG is going to help me, because I am not the one with the problem. I want to have sex. I am the one getting the excuses, some legit, some not so legit.

Since the beginning of Jan, he was 'sick', with one bug or another. Some real, some imagined. I'm waiting, not saying much about it, because if I do, then I will be 'pressuring him'. What happens when you pressure someone for sex? They invent more exuses...Now that the Paxil is off the table as the main excuse, something else will slide into its place. What will it be? Stress from work? A bad back? Exhaustion? I've heard it all...

The only thing I can do in our case is sit and wait. Hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, it's all I ever do. We are 6 weeks into H weaning off of that cursed anti-depressant, Paxil. Our MC suggested not even trying to have sex until completely weaned off...Is she frigging serious??? Thankfully, it has been happening naturally and spontaneously albeit (still) rarely, otherwise I'd be going nuts.

Who was it that mentioned having the patience of Job? And howcome I can hold down a full time job, a hobby sport, manage a household, and take care of a kid and STILL have the energy for sex?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

nader said:


> I was all hopeful and optimistic posting this yesterday, only to have my plans for the evening shattered at the mention of a headache. for my wife, the #1 issue is being tired. She works on her feet, we have a 1 year old, and she has reason to be legitimately tired.. but she's going to be tired no matter how much sleep she gets, so 15-30 minutes of lovemaking is not going to make it any worse!
> 
> and then sometimes, like last night, when she's not naturally tired, she will have some muscle pain or a headache, and take something for pain that will knock her out at 8:30.
> 
> ...



Hi nader ~

Being a person who also suffers from a lot of fatigue and headaches, I can relate. When we have sex I tend to not be able to fall asleep right away afterward - I'm always a little bit jazzed, so it will be even longer before I get to sleep. Is your wife like that?

I think you should always try and remain calm and collected - maintain the leadership role, if you will.

If she has a lot of fatigue and aches/pains, have you considered whether she should look for a different job, different hours, stay home and work only part-time, etc.? Look at all of the different scenarios. My H and I had to do this with me - and it was him gently prompting me that I was burning the candle at both ends and simply could not manage everything - especially since I have severe hypothyroidism and I tend to have downward swings periodically. I then took the initiative to explore different options and was able to come up with a plan with my employer to work partly from home and partly in the office. Made a HUGE difference. 

Don't just let it go - don't just 'suck it up' and start to build up resentment. HELP her, lead her, guide her, talk with her, suggest things, let her know that you DO care about how she feels and you want to see what the both of you can do to help her so that she feels better when she gets home.

Also consider other times that you could be having sex. We simply go to bed earlier. The littlest is in bed, the teen is on his own for bedtime anymore, and we just shut the door early to our room and have at it. Try and think of creative ways that you can manage your time together at home.

If you think, think, think about it, you will be able to come up with some solutions that you can propose, hash out, and implement together.

Best wishes.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

nader said:


> I was all hopeful and optimistic posting this yesterday, only to have my plans for the evening shattered at the mention of a headache. for my wife, the #1 issue is being tired. She works on her feet, we have a 1 year old, and she has reason to be legitimately tired.. but she's going to be tired no matter how much sleep she gets, so 15-30 minutes of lovemaking is not going to make it any worse!
> 
> and then sometimes, like last night, when she's not naturally tired, she will have some muscle pain or a headache, and take something for pain that will knock her out at 8:30.
> 
> ...


Maybe your wife needs a doctor. After I suggested to my husband that he see a doctor about all the ailments preventing him from having sex, he came around slightly...Very slightly.

Why, oh why, does it have to be such a complex song and dance just to have sex? Honestly, I had more when I was single....


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> I still maintain that there is nothing that exists for women with the 'no sex' problem. No amount of MMSL or NMMNG is going to help me, because I am not the one with the problem. I want to have sex. I am the one getting the excuses, some legit, some not so legit.
> 
> Since the beginning of Jan, he was 'sick', with one bug or another. Some real, some imagined. I'm waiting, not saying much about it, because if I do, then I will be 'pressuring him'. What happens when you pressure someone for sex? They invent more exuses...Now that the Paxil is off the table as the main excuse, something else will slide into its place. What will it be? Stress from work? A bad back? Exhaustion? I've heard it all...
> 
> ...


Hi CandieGirl ~

My biggest concern would be if he does not seem to want to try and 'tide you over' even if he himself cannot perform or doesn't want to - there are a lot of intimate things you can still do - manual sex, oral, vibrators that would not require much work or even any desire on his part (other than to do something nice for you).

Have you asked him whether he would try to do these kinds of things for you? If so, what was his answer?

Best wishes.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> No, you're right, no one can make someone else do anything. And the one spouse not willing to change (usually) dooms the relationship. Even if it doesn't culminate in divorce, is it healthy or happy?
> 
> Of course not fixing it is power. One spouse's absolute power over the feelings of the other. How wrong is that?
> 
> I'm not sure I follow your last point. I decided to change. Not everyone wants to or will, granted. But aren't most people here for relationship advice? You change to make the problem better.


Sorry if the last bit wasn't clear. What I meant was, that for whatever reason, the lightbulb went off in your head and you decided to change.

To a lot of people, because they don't see it as a problem to THEM, because they keep the power etc, and lose nothing by carrying on, that lightbulb never goes off, or if it does, they ignore it. They see no obvious compelling reason to try to make it better because _to them_ it isn't actually a problem.

What you've done is great, and you're absolutely right, and should be applauded not only for doing it but having the courage to tell other people. However, I suspect that to most of the people reading here, you're preaching to the choir.

I wouldn't bet a lot of money on the people who _need_ your advice actually coming here to read it, unfortunately.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Hi CandieGirl ~
> 
> My biggest concern would be if he does not seem to want to try and 'tide you over' even if he himself cannot perform or doesn't want to - there are a lot of intimate things you can still do - manual sex, oral, vibrators that would not require much work or even any desire on his part (other than to do something nice for you).
> 
> ...


He does seem to want to try, and that's why he is dosing down on his Paxil. As for anything other than traditional lovemaking, he isn't interested. He's too embarassed! In fact, I asked him the other day if he'd consider trying XYZ with me and he turned all red and hid his face in the pillows. We've been together for almost 2 years, married for 6 months and we started having sex very early on in our relationship (when he was fun!). A little late to be playing the blushing virgin routine with me, don't you agree??? He is a complete and utter mystery to me.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> No, you're right, no one can make someone else do anything. And the one spouse not willing to change (usually) dooms the relationship. Even if it doesn't culminate in divorce, is it healthy or happy?
> 
> Of course not fixing it is power. One spouse's absolute power over the feelings of the other. How wrong is that?
> 
> I'm not sure I follow your last point. I decided to change. Not everyone wants to or will, granted. *But aren't most people here for relationship advice? *You change to make the problem better.


Most typically, only one of the two persons in the relationship/partnership is typically represented here. As such, advice can only be directed toward what the person asking for advice can do for themselves.

Advice such as "your spouse needs to change!" does not help the person asking for advice - they need to know what THEY can do to help motivate those changes in their spouse, or in lieu of getting any response from their spouse what they can do to help THEMSELVES in learning how to cope with the fallout or of moving on.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> He does seem to want to try, and that's why he is dosing down on his Paxil. As for anything other than traditional lovemaking, he isn't interested. He's too embarassed! In fact, I asked him the other day if he'd consider trying XYZ with me and he turned all red and hid his face in the pillows. We've been together for almost 2 years, married for 6 months and we started having sex very early on in our relationship (when he was fun!). A little late to be playing the blushing virgin routine with me, don't you agree??? He is a complete and utter mystery to me.


I don't recall now - but did the Paxil cause any sexual dysfunction in him (other than lack of libido) - but erectile issues or orgasm issues? If so, is he embarrassed about these or potentially trying to hide them from you?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I don't recall now - *but did the Paxil cause any sexual dysfunction in him (other than lack of libido) - but erectile issues or orgasm issues*? If so, is he embarrassed about these or potentially trying to hide them from you?


Yes - but that's all finished now. Everything works! Embarassment...he's always so frigging embarassed. I don't get it. I'd do it out on the side of the road with him if he wanted to.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> To a lot of people, because they don't see it as a problem to THEM, because they keep the power etc, and lose nothing by carrying on, that lightbulb never goes off, or if it does, they ignore it. They see no obvious compelling reason to try to make it better because _to them_ it isn't actually a problem.


I think this is exactly right. For far too many people, an issue is not a problem unless it is a problem for them personally.

I think one potential benefit of stepping back (whether under a modifie 180, cooling the thermostat, or whatever) is that it can make it their problem. If my wife is not meeting my needs over an extended period (assuming no legitimate reason, e.g., real sickness), then I naturally would not feel the need to go out of my way to meet hers. This is one way to make my problem also hers.

Sometimes, this can work. Unfortunately, there are people who either cannot give up the power, or who feel the inconvience of their spouse avoiding them is a small price to pay for avoiding sex. There is not much that can be done about that.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this is exactly right. For far too many people, an issue is not a problem unless it is a problem for them personally.


"I don't have a problem - YOU have a problem" as a former boss of mine used to say.


> I think one potential benefit of stepping back (whether under a modifie 180, cooling the thermostat, or whatever) is that it can make it their problem. If my wife is not meeting my needs over an extended period (assuming no legitimate reason, e.g., real sickness), then I naturally would not feel the need to go out of my way to meet hers. This is one way to make my problem also hers.


She will see it as you making her life hard because YOU have a problem and that's unfair etc etc, most of the time. Then they spend time telling you have they have done YOU a favour by doing what they should have done in the first place.

This isn't a man / woman relationship / sex thing. It's a problem with people like that, who come in all shapes, sizes ages and sexes...



> Sometimes, this can work. Unfortunately, there are people who either cannot give up the power, or who feel the inconvience of their spouse avoiding them is a small price to pay for avoiding sex. There is not much that can be done about that.


Very true. All the man ups, communication improvements, thermostats and ultimatums on earth won't make them _*want*_ to do something about it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> She will see it as you making her life hard because YOU have a problem and that's unfair etc etc, most of the time. Then they spend time telling you have they have done YOU a favour by doing what they should have done in the first place.
> 
> This isn't a man / woman relationship / sex thing. It's a problem with people like that, who come in all shapes, sizes ages and sexes...


Not true, at least in my case, and I am not sure in even most cases. It has worked to draw her back. Fortunately, I have not had to use it often (only twice that I can think of), but she reacted by reaching out.

Clearly, it does not work in every marriage. I think it is a good tool to have and see no harm trying it.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

thanks to all who responded to my venting! A few things:

she's mentioned going to the dr.; eventually we want to get her on an IUD device so we don't have to use condoms half the time; this would be a good time to check hormone levels, etc or learn if there are any supplements that could help. So a dr. visit is definitely on the horizon.

unfortunately I'm not making enough for her to be able to cut back her hours. In the long run, I'd give anything to have her stay at home some more.. that is a goal of mine, regardless of the sex, but it will be awhile.

I could do much better at being more patient, gentle, not letting on that I am frustrated; it just gets harder the more we go without sex, like my sex/happiness batteries are drained. Hoping for some better results tonight, knock on wood!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> He does seem to want to try, and that's why he is dosing down on his Paxil. As for anything other than traditional lovemaking, he isn't interested. He's too embarassed! In fact, I asked him the other day if he'd consider trying XYZ with me and he turned all red and hid his face in the pillows. We've been together for almost 2 years, married for 6 months and we started having sex very early on in our relationship (when he was fun!). A little late to be playing the blushing virgin routine with me, don't you agree??? He is a complete and utter mystery to me.


CandieGirl,

It definately seems like this is something that goes much deeper for him than just the sexual aspect. How has he been in the other areas of his life, like work? I don't mean to suggest that women are drastically different in their view of femininity, but often, men have a strong sense of self attached to our masculinity. We define who we are, what we stand for, what is right and what is wrong all through our masculinity. For many, its the part of us that strives to make our wife happy and fulfilled. His responses seem more like the first ***** in the armor when a man begins to question himself. Some would point to depression, but his behaviors, in my opinion, sound like a man with much doubt. It is possible that you can be completely available to him, and he still doesn't quite get it that HE is the reason that you are. I only mention this because his general confidence in other areas of his life can also lend confidence overall. Maybe its just worth making sure that the other pillars in his life, like work and friends, are okay because they could be loosely tied to the types of internal changes he needs to make to regain his confidence. Wow ... does that make any sense?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Halien said:


> CandieGirl,
> 
> It definately seems like this is something that goes much deeper for him than just the sexual aspect. How has he been in the other areas of his life, like work? I don't mean to suggest that women are drastically different in their view of femininity, but often, men have a strong sense of self attached to our masculinity. We define who we are, what we stand for, what is right and what is wrong all through our masculinity. For many, its the part of us that strives to make our wife happy and fulfilled. His responses seem more like the first ***** in the armor when a man begins to question himself. Some would point to depression, but his behaviors, in my opinion, sound like a man with much doubt. It is possible that you can be completely available to him, and he still doesn't quite get it that HE is the reason that you are. I only mention this because his general confidence in other areas of his life can also lend confidence overall. Maybe its just worth making sure that the other pillars in his life, like work and friends, are okay because they could be loosely tied to the types of internal changes he needs to make to regain his confidence. Wow ... does that make any sense?


Hmmm....maybe. Work is successful now, but wasn't the case right before we got together. He had moved cross country, was staying with his dad...probably felt like somewhat of a failure. I never thought so...! Work is definitely good for him now. Friends? He doesn't really have many outside work, he fell out with his only close male friend a little while back. Not sure what I can do about that (it wasn't about me and I was not involved). He is so complex when it comes to sexuality. He was very open and willing at first, then slowly, he shut down. He even got embarassed in MC talking about it...he had issues of shame from childhood, but you'd think he'd be over that by now. Argh!


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Being asleep is not a good exuse!


It is, but its damn easy for a wife to remedy that in short order. Nothing makes a normal man happier than to wake up to your wife going to town on you like you have the cure for cancer. No man in their right mind would ever complain about that!


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Where is it written that one spouse gets to hold all the sexual cards and the other spouse has to just take the hand they're dealt?
> 
> See, this is the part of these sexless or low-sex marriage situations I take such issue with. If one partner KNOWS that something they are doing (or not doing) is making the other partner unhappy, shouldn't they fix it? Or at least TRY? Isn't that what love is?
> 
> ...


Again well said. It's too bad that there isn't a magic pill to swallow to make other LD women see the light. My one major complaint has everything to do with the fallout of a poor attitude. A good attitude and a the old fashioned college try is all most of us HD types ask for. Are we going to get it every time the mood strikes, probably not. But at least step up to the plate and swing away like you're trying to hit a home run. It's the indifference and rejection that results from a poor attitude towards sex that seems to be unraveling a relationship that I thought would NEVER come apart like this in my wildest dreams. I'd like to think that if the roles were reversed, I'd be popping viagra until I had a permanent erection if that's what it took to be up to the challenge. 

Chris Rock did a comedy routine several years ago about Bill Clinton that poked fun of his affair with Monica Lewinske. He said (summarizing) that she should have never had the opportunity to give him "service". Hillary should have been under the desk already taking care of it and telling her, I got this, tickle his balls or something. While crass, he made a point. Take care of business and most spouses won't think of cheating on you, even if your biggest celebrity crush at the top of your "list" propositioned you.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Plenty of husbands don't get it either...mine would be one. He knows there is a problem, yet sticks his head in the sand and hopes for it to go away. Who knows how long I'll be able to put up with this crap? I've got a pretty good man. I'd like to be a good woman, but I'm not sure I'll be able to go the rest of my life like this.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I don't understand why so many wives don't understand this simple point, or if they do get it, they seemingly don't care. It's the constant indifference and rejection (which sends the message that the husband's feelings and needs don't matter) that drives men into the arms of another woman. I might get my *ss chewed for that statement, but it's true. (I'm talking about good men here; not serial cheaters)
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard a truer statement than Yogi's "Ninety percent of the game is half mental. He didn't really even say that, but it's true lol
> 
> Attitude affects so much of what we do in life. I wonder percentage of LD is physical and how much is mental. What's that song in Snow White about doing something cheerfully because it makes it so much nicer?


That is my bottom line frustration. You are 110 percent right. Good men do not cheat and wouldn't if their life depended on it when their spouse is rocking their world. They wouldn't dare mess that up or hurt them PERIOD!

I don't discount hormones because I know they play a role in everything we do, my drive included. Having said that, I think LD is 100 percent between the ears because we have the capacity to make a choice to have sex, desire aside. I hate exercising and I love eating. I'd be 400 lbs if I didn't choose to eat right and exercise in spite of my "feelings". 

For a man, if you can't physically get it up, ok, admit it, pull out a toy, go downtown, take a pill, get a rod inserted..DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO. Women have an easier time. Their sex organs don't have to rise to the occasion. A bottle of lube, preparation and attitude are much easier to come by IHMO. 5 minutes of enthusiasm and a smile on your face while you put one on your partners face is PRICELESS! A good woman who knows her man can take us from zero to outerspace in a heartbeat if they choose to.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Please forgive me if you've already covered this...I'm still trying to get to know everyone's stories. You said on one post he gets so embarrassed he buries his head in the pillows. What does he say when you ask him what he's embarrassed about?


There really is too much to get into...my posts are here if you're bored. 

When I ask him? He says he can't verbalize it. It's just his way of keeping me running around in circles, frustrated as hell. I tried talking with him (again) last night, and it went horribly, so today, I'm feeling understandably upset and fed up.

I honestly don't know what else to do, and I'm tired of waiting for him to pull his head out and help me fix this. I'm not spending my life like this.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It makes perfect sense. If you don't want something you're probably opposed to anyone else having and enjoying it as well. Call it a personal Calvinism. It has little or nothing to do with "I don't understand"...of course they understand. And it has little to do with you as well. It's all about THEM and their discontent. I am probably going on too much here about wifey's utter sexlessness but the key point is that it extends in every direction. She's not only opposed to to sex she's opposed to the very idea of sex. Movies, TV, Radio that depict or talk about sex are all evil and 'stupid'. People who talk about sex or sexuality are 'losers', 'unethical'. It's not enough that she enjoys none of it, everyone else must be dragged along as well.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> There really is too much to get into...my posts are here if you're bored.
> 
> When I ask him? He says he can't verbalize it. It's just his way of keeping me running around in circles, frustrated as hell. I tried talking with him (again) last night, and it went horribly, so today, I'm feeling understandably upset and fed up.
> 
> I honestly don't know what else to do, and I'm tired of waiting for him to pull his head out and help me fix this. I'm not spending my life like this.


You know I haven't bee able to verbalize very well lately either. I'm kind of ashamed at my lack of success in this dept. I know part of my issue has been not wanting to admit things are worse than they are and whip out some pretty scary and radical words like "im ready to cheat, leave maybe all of the above".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

something that worked: wife has had some issues at work, being treated unfairly and putting up with some bull****. She told me she was going out for margaritas with a friend, a good sign - she doesn't go out nearly as often as she deserves to, and it nearly always works in my favor. I brought home flowers and a card with an I love you / I support you note. She burst into tears and hugged/kissed me for a long time. My timing was impeccable, apparently.

I took care of the little guy and relaxed for a bit with an audiobook and a beer. When she got home, with a couple drinks in her, we chit chatted for a bit, and started making out passionately, 69'd for awhile (which we've done, maybe twice before) and had steamy, awesome sex. It was a good one, especially after a kind of dry spell. Let's hope I can keep it up.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

nader said:


> something that worked: wife has had some issues at work, being treated unfairly and putting up with some bull****. She told me she was going out for margaritas with a friend, a good sign - she doesn't go out nearly as often as she deserves to, and it nearly always works in my favor. I brought home flowers and a card with an I love you / I support you note. She burst into tears and hugged/kissed me for a long time. My timing was impeccable, apparently.
> 
> I took care of the little guy and relaxed for a bit with an audiobook and a beer. When she got home, with a couple drinks in her, we chit chatted for a bit, and started making out passionately, 69'd for awhile (which we've done, maybe twice before) and had steamy, awesome sex. It was a good one, especially after a kind of dry spell. Let's hope I can keep it up.


:smthumbup:

Awesome!

It's really that combination of taking action on both your parts - her taking the time to de-stress, wind down, enjoy and you showing her that you cared by helping out and buoying her up when she needed it - that can make things so marvelous at times. 

Best wishes.


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## Eco (Mar 9, 2012)

I've had great sex that started with my being asleep. Sometimes we'd make love and fall asleep, and then at 4am I'd wake up inside her. Man I loved that!

I'd wake her up with oral, or sex now and then too...she loved it too. 

For some people that may be a no-no, but I think they are missing out! :-D


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Eco said:


> I've had great sex that started with my being asleep. Sometimes we'd make love and fall asleep, and then at 4am I'd wake up inside her. Man I loved that!
> 
> I'd wake her up with oral, or sex now and then too...she loved it too.
> 
> For some people that may be a no-no, but I think they are missing out! :-D


I couldn't agree more! Would I try that on a night that I new my wife needed every minute of sleep she could get, no. With a woman, its much harder logistically to wake them up like that. Men, we're kinda out there to begin with. Plus, its a huge turn on to have a woman who would just decide to wake you up to have their way with you. Bring it! ;-)


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Eco said:


> I've had great sex that started with my being asleep. Sometimes we'd make love and fall asleep, and then at 4am I'd wake up inside her. Man I loved that!
> 
> I'd wake her up with oral, or sex now and then too...she loved it too.
> 
> For some people that may be a no-no, but I think they are missing out! :-D


you woke up inside her? ok.....


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Awesome!
> 
> ...


we've had sex 2 more times since then! Once after watching 2 episodes of Game of Thrones (!) and then again the following morning. I asked what's gotten into her, and she said she wants to try harder to make me happy 

So far, it's working!


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

You are a good man and a great husband. Your wife is a very lucky woman and you a very lucky man for having a wife who appreciates your successful efforts to make her feel happy and supported.


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