# Tales of the non-orgasmic, a Miss Scarlett update.



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I've written this post 3 times over the past week. When I have gotten done writing it I realize the futility of posting and have cancelled instead. This might not even pass the board rules as I realize I have a problem, I have several problems in fact, but I don't know that there is anything left to say about it. 

A brief summary - married 18 years, no orgasms. The first 8 years my husband seemed to not notice. He didn't ask. It never seemed like the right time to state the obvious. After the first 8 years I started faking as we had just passed a dip in the marriage and I was celebrating having made it through and my children were of such an age that I could have a life back again. Although I do know the faking was wrong and benefited me in no way - these are good years in my memories with lots of going out and drunken sex and feeling good about the shape I was in - despite not having orgasms I like sex, I did like sex then and indulged frequently. 

Then the 40's came, the slow weight creep, the teenagers, the being constantly surprised that so much time had passed in life. I decided I couldn't be the 30's Miss Scarlett any longer and needed to move on. I leveled with my husband about the orgasm situation. While some would say this was unfair and unkind - I will state that in 18 years my husband had never given me oral nor had he ever stimulated me manually - nothing. No toys, no nothing. There really was no way to have an orgasm. We were both wrong and set upon a path to fix it.

I started therapy. He had a difficult time for about 2 months, not wanting sexual contact. Then we started again. As I moved closer to orgasm I did things I hoped would make it easier for him. I didn't get myself off - I was reading porn and watching porn, keeping myself in a high sexual state waiting for the moment he would try again. Having oral for the first time in 18 years, having him try anything new really was arousing. It took awhile but I did get there and we had a handful of successes. 

Then I started to have anxiety, panic when he initiated sex. I finally realized the anxiety was because I couldn't constantly keep myself in a highly aroused state - it was not going to be easy for him to push me over the edge on a regular basis. I had been doing 80% of the work for him. And at last I realized I didn't really believe he could do it on his own. And why did I feel that way - because he never had. 

After the anxiety part passed we settled into the new normal. The new normal is I have to talk myself out of a little anxiety, and he is not trying as hard as he was, and I'm nowhere close to orgasm. 

Honestly I'm fine not having orgasms regularly. When I think back over the past few months the times that really stick out in my mind are times I didn't have one - but that the sexual intimacy was there and there was a vulnerability to him that I don't see often. 

So it's not the orgasms specifically. 

I could write pages on why I love my husband and the things he is good at. He's supported me and protected me and has made my dreams for my life come true. Like when I wanted to quit my full time job to finish college and when I couldn't rest until I had a child and we went through IVF. He had to give me progesterone shots in the ass every day for 12 weeks and go to the spankatorium many times. He did it. He's awesome at his job and we want the same things for our future. We're nearly out of debt and our kids will be gone in a few years. The future looks great.

It's just that one thing, you know. The reason many of us are here. He's not LD. He travels for work and there have been years we've had sex every day he's been home. He always responds to me, he complies to anything new I ask him to try. The letter of the law is definitely present - it's the passion and being on the same sexual wavelength that is amiss. 

I've given great thought to if this is a deal breaker. I feel somewhat confident that I could find a good sexual match even in my middle age. I don't think it's out of the question that I could find a good man that is also a good sexual match for me.

But. In all other ways he's such a good match. And he's always been there for me. And I do love him so much. 

I think before, when I knew I was faking - I could say - things would be different if x. Things would be different if only. But now I do really know. Things can't be different. There is no malice. He does not think about sex in the way I do. He does not place the same importance on it than I do. I understand my physical limitations and they might be a bit tricky - but it's not impossible. There is a path to it - but I can't get there with someone who just - I don't know - isn't feeling the same thing I am. And - he's trying. He's definitely trying and it's the worst thing to not be able to deliver. It's not a physical component that is missing, though - it's an emotional one. How much can I ask of this man? 

So - what? Sex goes back now to something that feels good to me but primarily is a way I care for my husband? I go back to getting off after I go to the gym because I deserve it? I go back to faking because there's no reason both of us should feel bad about this? 

Miss Scarlett is sad and grieving - and I can't even write this in my journal for fear of how it would hurt him. I wouldn't tell my in life friends because of how it would hurt him. I just need to say it. Nobody gets everything they want in life - and I really have so much. I feel like I have no right to complain because I do have so much. 

However, I think although all our stories are different - we all have one thing in common - we all think sex is pretty damn important. So I know you understand.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I've written this post 3 times over the past week. When I have gotten done writing it I realize the futility of posting and have cancelled instead. This might not even pass the board rules as I realize I have a problem, I have several problems in fact, but I don't know that there is anything left to say about it.
> 
> A brief summary - married 18 years, no orgasms. The first 8 years my husband seemed to not notice. He didn't ask. It never seemed like the right time to state the obvious. After the first 8 years I started faking as we had just passed a dip in the marriage and I was celebrating having made it through and my children were of such an age that I could have a life back again. Although I do know the faking was wrong and benefited me in no way - these are good years in my memories with lots of going out and drunken sex and feeling good about the shape I was in - despite not having orgasms I like sex, I did like sex then and indulged frequently.
> 
> ...


Scarlett,

If your husband spent 18 years not meeting your needs, that's bad. BUT, if he's trying now, that's not something to be discarded. 18 years is going to leave some baggage--I know this from my own experience. It's not going to get fixed overnight, but if you really believe he's willing to work with you on it, I say give it a chance. It likely won't be easy, but whatever is?

If you think the missing component is emotional, then I don't think it's a matter of finding someone else that's sexually compatible. I think more likely it's a matter of sorting out the emotional problems you have right now. If you're carrying emotional baggage from this relationship, you'll probably carry them with you into the next.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Thanks, Fozzy. 

I suppose I feel like if this was something important to him it would have never gotten this far. 

There are numerous obsticles and trying to work with a person who wont talk much about sex - makes it feel impossible. 

Like you were saying about your wife - my husband claims 100% sexual satisfaction. I'm happy for that but I am unsure he even sees the larger picture.


----------



## popcorn (Nov 2, 2012)

MissScarlett, I am not very good with words but I really feel for you. Like you said, you are in a good place in your life, your kids are getting older and now it should be more about you. This is what you deserve. I know you love your husband, he's great and you don't want to hurt him in any way. This being said I agree with you when you said if the tables were turned, it would never have gotten this far. As much as men need sexual satisfaction because it is their expression of love I believe it is the same for a lot of women. As women we can tolerate much more because we need to be emotionally connected. This can also get old. There is so much more and it's OK to want it. You want to experience the whole package the same as your husband does and it's OK because it's your turn now. Am I even making any sense? You need to express your needs and your H should do whatever it takes to help you achieve this. A husband who truly loves and appreciates his wife would do whatever it takes to please her. This goes for reverse roles as well. It's called love. This is only my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I suppose I feel like if this was something important to him it would have never gotten this far.


Actually, the same sentence could be applied to you as well. You chose to not talk about it for the first 8 years then fake it for the next 10 years and not talk about it.

I also feel that your emotions right now are burdened by your past. From what I could read it seems he accepted his responsibility for this situation and is trying to change.

My wife is somewhat similar to your husband. She also doesn't do oral or manual and in general doesn't want to talk about sex. She's anorgasmic with me as well so another thing that is related.


----------



## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

Aw, Scarlett,

I feel the exact same way you do. The oh so important feelings I hold about sex. The high value I place on a sexual connection to my partner. Sometimes it's overwhelming. And like you said, when everything else is so seemingly "perfect" and the future is blindingly bright, it makes one feel almost ridiculous to consider tossing it to the wind over (gasp) - S-E-X. 

I wish I had magical words to help you feel better. I truly do! I can only let you know what you already do know: you're not alone! I'm in the same situation, almost to the letter. 

It breaks my heart to read the mental turmoil you are going though. I also keep a journal that I'm afraid to write some things in. That's also when I come here. 

I don't think you should leave. As Fozzy mentioned, it took your H a couple of months after learning you never O'd - but he is trying. I hope you feel in your heart that he truly is. If so, I urge you to stay. You have built something wonderful. You were able to bring your truth to him and he dealt with it. He sounds amazing to me, I hope you can make it through. 

Best wishes.


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Miss Scarlett is sad and grieving - and I can't even write this in my journal for fear of how it would hurt him. I wouldn't tell my in life friends because of how it would hurt him. I just need to say it. Nobody gets everything they want in life - and I really have so much. I feel like I have no right to complain because I do have so much.


Well ... you went down that path - keeping the issue to yourself and suffering in silence - for 18 years. How well did that work out?

It's a passion issue, right? If he's trying, then you nudge him towards what you need. Positive reinforcement.

What not to say:
- I know you are trying but I am still not orgasming.
- I don't get off unless you do x.
- You're not passionate enough.
- I don't feel desired.

Instead:
- I love you for trying, please keep doing that.
- When you do x, it sends to me to the edge.
- When I see that desire for me in your eyes, it gets me hot.
- The more enthusiasm you show me, the more I want you back.

Scarlett, I lost the bubble on your story (too many on this board to follow!) and maybe you have done all that already. If he is a good man who loves you and is trying, and the rest of your marriage is ideal, I think you should be giving him slight course corrections rather than considering driving off the road. Remember, you've had two decades to stew in this. It's new information for him; he thought you were coming all those years, and old habits are hard to break. He might be harboring his own feelings of sadness or resentment. Lastly, had you given any thought to seeing a sex therapist, either solo or jointly?

It's a tough situation and I hope you find some peace with your decision, whatever it is.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Thanks so much everyone. I do take responsibility for playing part in the problem. It is definitely a 2 person problem. I am not being realistic by thinking it would become a 1 person problem if I went back to pretending, taking the pressure off him.

He really has tried everything I have asked. It is still off the mark because its not delivered with passion, though. But I realize things like passion are subjective and there is only so much I can ask for. 

I need you to start giving me oral - that's realistic. 

I need you to give me oral and have it be all you've ever wanted in life and have you not be able to wait to do it again because you have to be enjoying yourself for this to work - that's not realistic. 

If you see what I mean. Its different. Hes not acting inconvenienced - hes not complaining. He is trying. His not being overly emotional and not being impulsive and not having high passions has made him a good husband for me - because I am those things. He is my rock - he keeps me touching reality. But translated into the bedroom, of course........


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Thanks so much everyone. I do take responsibility for playing part in the problem. It is definitely a 2 person problem. I am not being realistic by thinking it would become a 1 person problem if I went back to pretending, taking the pressure off him.
> 
> He really has tried everything I have asked. It is still off the mark because its not delivered with passion, though. But I realize things like passion are subjective and there is only so much I can ask for.
> 
> ...


I completely get your meaning. And even when all the stars align, he does all you've asked him to do, there is still something missing.

"I want your body!"
"I want your essence all over my face and running down my chin!"
"When I look at you I want you so badly I have to walk away lest I attack you right on the kitchen floor."

But what you hear and feel instead:

"Tell me where you want me to touch you?"
"How often do you want me to do this?"
"I'm *willing* to do whatever you need me to do to make you happy."

The huge difference is that the first group communicate and drive the action through HIS desire For YOU. You are the recipient of his love.

The second group communicate his desire to not be a d"ckhead and find ways to please you so that he isn't a d"ckhead. So he does things mechanically to get you off. "Place black wire through slot and and connect with green..."

I find it interesting the men responding suggest you continue to teach your puppet how to please you and completely miss the emotions behind sex!

So I'm going to take heat for this...

Your h needs a shock to the system in order to burn out the old wires so a whole new electrical system can be installed! 
1. He needs to get in touch with HIS emotions!
2. He needs to understand a woman's mind and body are inextricably LINKED and she can feel emotions of not just the touch, but the motivation of the touch!
3. He needs to get in touch with his dirty mind and subversive thoughts and if he wants your body, he better effing be able to show it one out of three times of having sex!

His whole world has been thrown off kilter and he thinks he can follow the auto pilot instructions to make things right.

Have him read faithful wife's blog.
Tell him you're not having sex again until he can show you desire and passion! You have done everything you can on your end. You are now stuck because reinserting the wires hasn't fixed the emotional intimacy. Just because a lot of men don't get it, doesn't mean it's normal and something to adjust to.

You're on the precipice of cutting the puppet strings and forcing the man to walk on his own, or spending the rest of your life in a desperate contentment weighing what could have been with what is.

He needs to do the work now.

I get you. I really do.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Even as a man, I can certainly relate to your strong need to feel sexually desired and wanted by your H. 

My suspicion is that at some level, he still harbors some pain and resentment from the realization that you were faking orgasms for 18 years. I know I would. 

On the other hand, you can't force him to feel sexual passion for you. He needs to understand your needs (sounds like he does since you have told him so), and he needs to understand how important it is to you that he expresses that passion when you are having sex.

I beleive you mentioned that you had been in counseling, and I think you should continue with that with your H, with the goal of exploring his feelings regarding the first 18 years of your sexual history, and how this has affected his sexual feelings towards you.

I can certainly sympathize with your situation, a resolution won't be easy. My best advice is to be brutally honest, especially with yourself and your own feelings, and the answer will eventually reveal itself.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think if a man has to think about not failing to get his wife off every time they have sex, then there is bound to be enormous pressure. Pressure busts pipes. 

Failure is almost an inevitability if he's afraid of failing and you're afraid he will fail.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett....I love Anon's post....however, I just think your H isn't that sexual and that there will be no way to "teach" him that makes any significant change.

There are many people like you describe your H. He wants sex, is into it, is "willing", but doesn't he have much "oomph" behind anything. Many women are like this as well. I'm not sure what you are describing you want from him is really the emotional component, I think you have that part confused a bit. I think YOUR emotions are hurt when he doesn't deliver the kind of passion you would like...but his emotions might be way up there...that is not necessarily going to come out in "passion".

Some men think having an erection is how you should know he feels "passionate" for you...they think that this is an obvious reflection of his emotions. Some women think "allowing penetration" is how her husband should know she is "passionate" for him. She thinks he should see this as an obvious sign that she accepts him and loves him. Both this example man and example woman MAY BE feeling very deep and intimate emotions...so if their spouse were to ask for more "emotion", they would be dumbfounded.

I think what you want from him, just isn't in him, because what you are really wanting is certain actions...not certain emotions.

Is it emotion that makes a man want to throw his wife down on the bed? Certainly passion and lust are present, but emotion? Not really, nor not necessarily. A man might want to throw a total stranger down on the bed too, with zero emotion involved.

If I understand your sitch correctly, that is what you are lacking right? A show of passion and lust?


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Take a look at the reasons WHY you want that display of passion.

Are you possibly looking for the display of passion as compensation for the years you feel he let you down? If that's the case, I believe it's a matter of sorting out your own resentments.

If you just need it because that's the way you're wired, keep encouraging him to up his game and push his own boundaries.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Yes to what Anon and Faith full have said (yes to what everyone has said) - they have further illustrated what I am saying with the emotion behind it. Although I tend to agree with Faithful that I don't think my husband is wired this way. 

I would love to see him read a book or educate himself on the female orgasm - surprise me with some new trick or be overcome with passion. Ive seen something close to it from him - but just as its not reasonable for me to maintain a state of 80% to orgasm its not reasonable for him to be running onmaximum capacity like that on a regular basis. This is the basis of my grief - because he is such a wonderful guy and great husband to me and yet I see that he is giving me what he has sexually and I have to pick him or the possibility of great crazy sex with someone else. I want him - but that makes it unlikely I will have the other ever. That is ****ing sad to me.

Why do I need it - just because for me to have an orgasm I need a long, strong period of arousal. And like I said - I will concede the orgasm - fine - but I would like to see my feelings mirrored by him so it feels like we are experiencing something together. Instead it kind of feels like its broken into things I do for him and things he does for me - it doesn't feel to me that there is any synergy. I don't know how it feels for him, though. 

I think I'm probably on the long side of normal when it comes to orgasm. I can hit the arousal stage pretty quickly but then there is a long plateau stage where I feel no change or building until I hit the orgasm phase. Until I hit the end, though, there is no guarantee. Its one thing to provide the physical stimulus for the necessary amount of time - but then there is the emotional fuel to get that far into it. 


I do still have issues I need to work on. I obviously baby him when it comes to sex - meaning I don't want to hurt his feelings. That is why I was faking - also why I was doing 80% of the work for him. Also why I'm using this venue to vent my feelings instead of bringing them to him (anon touched on this.)

I also have 18 year old beliefs that intrude - that he doesn't want me, he is repulsed by my lady parts, he is just doing this because I'm making him. He is just humoring me.

But fix all that and - what. We are still on two different sexual wavelengths.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What is behind the thoughts about him not liking your lady parts? Is that childhood stuff, or stuff during the marriage?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What is behind the thoughts about him not liking your lady parts? Is that childhood stuff, or stuff during the marriage?


That comes from the 18 years of no oral/no touching. 

I do know he loves my breasts (he's a breast man which can explain for a little bit of his attention being above the waistline and not below.) I used to hate my breasts - but I was healed by affection, not just his but by others as well. I now like them and treat them well. 

Just an illustration that I am not above changing. 

But 18 years of not visiting down there - it's going to take more than you saying you don't dislike it.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I too understand your plight, from the same perspective as a man.

You are basically asking your husband to be something that he isn't, something that you need to feel satisfied. Even when he tries mechanically, or even as enthusiastically as he is able to muster, it's unsatisfactory because that little alarm bell in the back of your head is ringing - "this isn't real". 

If you can't be well and truly satisfied by the effort, and lord knows I understand, there's little left but grim resignation, seems to me. Before I get a "Debbie Downer" label, I'm just being realistic. Watching someone you love struggle to meet your needs in ways that are clearly painful or alien to them is not satisfying. So you can't rewire yourself, and you probably can't rewire your husband. 

Some things in life we just have to do without. It's certainly OK to grieve about it, and I'd bet a week's pay that you'll bounce around between acceptance and grief on and off for years - since I'm a good decade ahead of you in the process.

I'm not going to say you can't change the dynamic here, just that you should be prepared for the most likely outcome. If it is well and truly so important to you that you can't imagine real happiness without it, then don't hang your future satisfaction on an unlikely outcome.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> But 18 years of not visiting down there - it's going to take more than you saying you don't dislike it.


Way, way more. My wife used that exact phrase about oral sex: she doesn't dislike it and this is me doing her. She also used the phrase: not uncomfortable.

It stings, leaves scars. It affects confidence big time. I'm not sure if there is a solution here.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

It's really nice to be heard and understood. I wish many of us couldn't relate - but it's nice to not feel alone. Thanks everyone for that. Finding this board has helped me in many ways. 

I honestly don't want to be without him. I'm sure there are ways he wishes I was somewhat different, too. I try, he tries. What else can you do. He makes me happy in so many other ways, I love his family, he's a good father, he's never intentionally let me fall. I can have orgasms - it's just that in my life sex is one thing and orgasms are another. It's not horrible and it's not fatal. I just needed to be heard and understood - so thank you all very much for that. I hope I can also be there for you in what you are going through. To hope for the best but to hear you and understand you about the realities. 

Group hug.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Scarlett I don't know the full details but I really truly think this is fixable. I think he scared to F things up so he's f-ing things up. Get it?

There is the off chance that he's just a really lazy lover but I'm hoping that isnt the case.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Well, there is always hope. We aren't going to stop having sex and I'm not going to be upset if it starts happening. 

Reasonably I know he desires me in his own way - it is just not the way I would like to be desired. This has been an issue from the get-go. When we met it felt magic and I had already pretty much made my mind up that I wanted to be with him before we started having sex. I did realize there was something off - but I'm not going to get down on my 25 year old self for realizing this guy was worth keeping and thinking the sex could be worked on.

I'm not going to seek out a lover, I'm not going to divorce him over this and I'm not going to withdrawal sexually - if it does get better that would really be awesome. You won't hear any complaints from Miss Scarlett if things take off.


----------



## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi,
So, I don't know your whole story. I am just responding to what I see here.  I hear two things. For a long time your husband seemed to just believe that PIV was all that was needed to satisfy you and never used his hands or mouth on you. You told finally told him this was not working and since then he has tried to change. But you feel like something is missing and that lacking emotional component is what's making it hard for you to come. 

I think it's not cool that your husband was so lazy in bed for such a long time, but on the other hand you didn't tell him what was really going on. 

But I also think that your husband is not really responsible for your orgasm. And I think that looking for some unattainable sense of passion in a very long term relationship is setting you both up for failure.

I can easily orgasm from masturbation, but I can only have an orgasm through sex in one position 99% of the time. 1% if I'm REALLY turned on I can get enough clitoral stimulation through missionary to come, but otherwise I have to be on top grinding. My husband kisses me, kisses my breasts, etc...but the orgasm is really mine. He's not doing anything TO me. I'm doing it to myself.

Now sometimes I wish I could come more easily in other positions. But anatomically that's just really hard for me because I need clitoral stimulation. I can't blame my husband for this. He's always eager to try whatever I want to, but it just doesn't work. Even other positions with toys rarely work for me. 

Sometimes even in my usual way I don't come, in which case after my husband comes he'll use his hands on me while I use a toy or something to help me get off. But even then I'd say that the orgasm is MINE. It's not being to done to me. I do it to myself. 

I think there's this belief that your partner can MAKE you come...that someone just has to have that magic. And maybe it is like that for some people. But personally I think that you have to figure out what works for you. I don't think that your husband is going to say something or do something and suddenly the floodgates are going to open and you are going to start coming all over the place. I mean, yes, when the sex is really hot it's easier to get aroused and to come, but if you can come through masturbation, you can come in some way during sex with your partner--whether that's through PIV, hands, oral, whatever....if it doesn't take you a super long time to masturbate and come, why should it take a super long time during foreplay and sex unless you are looking for your husband to MAKE you come rather you making yourself come WITH your husband.

Does this make sense? LOL. It makes sense to me, but I'm not sure I'm expressing it right.


----------



## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

> He really has tried everything I have asked. It is still off the mark because its not delivered with passion, though. But I realize things like passion are subjective and there is only so much I can ask for.
> 
> I need you to start giving me oral - that's realistic.
> 
> I need you to give me oral and have it be all you've ever wanted in life and have you not be able to wait to do it again because you have to be enjoying yourself for this to work - that's not realistic.


So, when you are masturbating do you need to feel passion? Or it is more like....hey...I really want to come. I just ask because for me, it's like...hey...I'm kind of horny. I want to have an orgasm. Fun!

Have you ever masturbated with him? Like lie next to him and let him see what you do? Or have him put his fingers inside you while you masturbate? Or use a toy while he touches you? I am just a little confused when you say you don't have orgasms with him if you mean during PIV or just at all? Because a lot of women don't come from PIV because there is not enough clitoral stimulation. But that doesn't mean that you can't have orgasms together naked in the same room.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Good questions - 

As far as the strictly speaking physical part goes there are two issues. The first is luck of the draw with anatomy. Uh - I hate to have to say this - pouty labia? There is really no way my clitoris gets any stimulation at all aside from a very obvious, prolonged assault. I don't believe it would happen from any sexual position because it's too insulated. Labia has to be very intentionally moved for the duration.

The second is a long plateau phase. I don't know how much longer if is compared to any other woman. The arousal phase happens pretty quickly - but then there is no sense of progress or anything building until I hit the orgasm phase. It could be 20 or 30 minutes of direct stimulation. But in the middle - there is not that much to go on. Now if it's me by myself - I'm really not concerned about how much time it's taking. I also have the benefit of constant feedback since it's myself of course. 

I have done all those things -had him watch me do it. That made me really nervous because he didn't ask me to do it nor had he ever expressed any desire to see me do it. Watching a woman get herself off is kind of a stereotypical male fantasy - so him not asking or expressing interest - me having to ask him to do it made it difficult. I was very concerned he would have lost his erection by the time I got done. He did not, though, we had sex after that (I think it took me about 20 minutes). However - he hasn't ever mentioned it since then and I don't know that I can bear to request it - as it didn't do so much for me (since I can get myself off any time) it was meant to be instructional and arousing. 

I used to use a very strong electric vibrator and results were moved up into the 10 minute range. Since the stimulus was so strong it cut through a lot of the bull**** and this became my preferred method of masturbation. At this time of my confession to my husband I gave it up because I felt it was probably making me less sensitive overall to the human touch. I did bring it to bed once (again my request) and it's probably doable -but that particular time I realized the size of it took some doing (I was trying to use it during PIV) there wasn't many positions it was going to fit and the trying this and trying that felt really awkward. And then since the stimulus was so strong he could feel it and, well, it brought a quick end to that situation. 

I also purchased a we-vibe, I gave it a trial run when H was out of town - from zero arousal, in fact I was watching the news. It took an even 30 minutes to get results. (I'm editing to add that I am open to trying this with H - even requesting it and having him go along. The one problem I see coming (lol at my pun) is that I need it to be at the highest frequency - H does not have PE or anything, but being unaccustomed to that kind of stimulation I see him getting off a few minutes into that. Do you think I should just have him do something else for 25 minutes and then show up. Ha ha ha.) 

Anyway - could I get myself off in the same room with him - yes. Could he hold the vibrator on me - yes. It is a correct assumption that if I can get off, I can get off as part of the whole deal even if I'm doing the whole thing or most of it, as you said.

He is not requesting this. I could request this and I'm sure he would go along. But then again - if he's not asking for it and I'm the one getting myself off - what is my motivation for making him watch. Him watching doesn't make it better for me. In fact I fear he feels emasculated. If he were expressing a desire for this I would deliver with bells on. That is a reasonable compromise. It doesn't seem he has any desire for these things and doesn't say anything about them and doesn't come up with these ideas on his own - this is the emotional component that is missing.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm not going to seek out a lover, I'm not going to divorce him over this and I'm not going to withdrawal sexually...


OK, given that and my overall read of you as a loving person, my suggestion is a qualified "Yes" to my interpretation of Anon's recommendation: Turn up the drama. Maybe you've been too reluctant to do that in the past, but just keep in mind in what you say and do, "You can't un-ring a bell," in how far you go.

I was wondering what I might post here, and then it was obvious: The GWTW archetypes. You ended up with A$hley, but now in some ways he seems a tad dull. You're mature enough to realize life with Rhett might have some significant down side, and so you're not about to leave A$hley to seek a Rhett. Can you spice things up a little with A$hley? Maybe. Are you actually more of a Melanie than a Scarlett yourself? How would each of them approach your situation? Very differently. Mustn't real life end in a combination of approaches?

(For some reason this site is bleeping out the name A$hley, when spelled normally. Strange.)

On a physical level, trying to rush to climax certainly is likely to be trouble. Can be for men, too. Getting used to stimulation that's too strong or a rhythm that's faster than partner sex can also be trouble.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Miss Scarlet,

I see a lot of assuming here and a serious lack of communication.

You assume it's a lack of desire and he could very well be intimidated. He may not know "how" to please you orally. He may not know "how" to hit the G-spot. He many not even know what a G-spot is...

His "lack of passion" could very well be a total "lack of knowledge" or intimidation.

See where I'm going here? Both of you need to start talking about this or you'll never be satisfied. Don't spare his feelings. He'll get over that and you'll both be better off for it.

I'd like to suggest saying;

Honey, there's so much information out there today maybe we should start exploring it. It wasn't available 18 years ago, 10 years ago, it wasn't talked about. I've been reading and....there's lots of instructional videos and we could really turn things up a notch for both of us. 

I'm guessing he would respond well to some positive conversation about improving both of your sex lives. 

Best,

T


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I think the TAM site is censoring "A$hley" because of the A$hley Madi$on "adult affair" site where married people can hook up with other married people. I think the TAM demographics would be right in the sweet spot where AM would like to SPAM.

Wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I've written this post 3 times over the past week. When I have gotten done writing it I realize the futility of posting and have cancelled instead. This might not even pass the board rules as I realize I have a problem, I have several problems in fact, but I don't know that there is anything left to say about it.
> 
> A brief summary - married 18 years, no orgasms. The first 8 years my husband seemed to not notice. He didn't ask. It never seemed like the right time to state the obvious. After the first 8 years I started faking as we had just passed a dip in the marriage and I was celebrating having made it through and my children were of such an age that I could have a life back again. Although I do know the faking was wrong and benefited me in no way - these are good years in my memories with lots of going out and drunken sex and feeling good about the shape I was in - despite not having orgasms I like sex, I did like sex then and indulged frequently.
> 
> ...


Now that the hard parts of your life are pretty much behind you and you have a solid foundation for yourself, you should go ahead and divorce him. Either that or open up your relationship to others.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Anuvia said:


> Now that the hard parts of your life are pretty much behind you and you have a solid foundation for yourself, you should go ahead and divorce him. Either that or open up your relationship to others.


:scratchhead: She LOVES him....


----------



## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

Okay. I get it. He's not really participating in any of the fun. He'll go along with you, but show no enthusiasm. Yuck. That would not make me feel very sexy either. Unfortunately, I am not sure how you change this except by coming right out and saying this and maybe crying a lot! That's probably what I would do. 

I was going to say to have your husband's t levels checked, but you say that he still desires sex. So, I don't quite get it. He wants sex but then shows no enthusiasm? So he just lies there? Or what? He makes no noise? No suggestions? Just want to climb on top and pumps silently until he's done? 

So when you were masturbating in front of him he just did nothing except watch? Never said...oh, that's sexy...or kissed you, touched you, etc...?

Is it possible that he's just soooo uptight that he's afraid to show more enthusiasm? Have you asked him what turns him on? What if you played a game where you had to ask him to do one thing you like and then he had to ask you to do one thing he liked. Or one of you had to do something--a kiss, touch, position etc...and then the other had to rate it 1-10?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

More good feedback this morning, thanks everyone. I'm finding by typing this out and reading the feedback I am going from sad to angry to frustrated to peaceful. My mind is having to work and is having to question my own beliefs on this. 

bestyet - very clever with the relation to the movie! Scarlett was a really ****ty wife - but I think there are parts of her all women admire. She pined for one thing while not appreciating what she had till it was too late. Interesting comparison (the ****** vs. Rhett - the Melanie vs. Scarlett)

T&T - you are very correct - there is a lot of assumptions and a huge amount of lack of communication going on. 

Anuvia - I do want to be with my husband - I'm not saying I don't fantasize about taking a lover on the side, but it's just a fantasy at times. I don't have the type of personality that would work in an open marriage even if I thought that was a good solution - which I don't. 

Lionlady - he gets to kiss and play with my breasts for a while, then I get on top so he can still see my breasts and I'm on top till he finishes. This is the sex we've been having for 10 years. He wants it this way every single time, no variation. He will do other positions - but it feels like this only happens when he knows I'm about to lose my temper about the whole thing. Now - since our talk in March things did change for a good month or so and I found the sex exciting - I had no complaints during that time, getting off or not. But now that the initial excitement has passed we are sliding back down the hill into the regular stuff and I feel so weary to keep on trying to change things. 

He says nothing during sex in general. When I was masturbating he was touching me - but because I asked him to. He is taking time to give me manual or oral stimulation (between the breasts and me getting on top). He doesn't seem distressed about this - but you can probably see how it's no longer helping me all that much. I do appreciate the effort but orgasm feels a million miles away right then and there seems little point in letting it go on too long. 

Omg, I am just about to cry right now thinking about this going on and on. Why does this have to be so damned difficult. I would just like for him to say or show me in a way I understand that he even cares if I get off or not or that anything I want sexually is important to him.

I know I'm part of this problem and I can't believe myself that I cannot make myself change and stop babying him and pretending that the sex is better than I really think it is. I can't even do that - much less anything else. I just want to go back to the horrible way it was because it seems so much easier than the effort it will take to change. 



If it can even be changed.


----------



## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Can I point you to this? Finally a breakthrough! Open, brutally honest communication.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...-how-fall-love-my-husband-10.html#post5138618


----------



## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Miss Scarlett do you ride him?

Best thing I ever mistakenly did EARLY in my relationship with wife was have her be on top and not move. Movement and pleasure were up to her. Therefore she moved the ways she liked and felt good for her.

-she O's 99% of the time this way
-likely her favorite position
-not sure for all guys, but I seem to last a LONG time this way. Therefore nearly guaranteeing an O for her.

Lastly. Communicate. When he is down there reassure him vocally, and be VERY obvious about it. Dont think our subtle moans are always as obvious as we would think they are. 

I know being vocal can be hard (one of wife and my biggest problems still). But give them a try. Feeling like you are doing everything wrong in bed will KILL a sexual relationship.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> bestyet - very clever with the relation to the movie! Scarlett was a really ****ty wife - but I think there are parts of her all women admire. She pined for one thing *while not appreciating what she had till it was too late*. Interesting comparison (the ****** vs. Rhett - the Melanie vs. Scarlett)


Thanks! That also gets back to the "loving vs. longing" thing. It was ages ago that I read a discussion of that, but it really did stick with me. I think it was suggested that people who are always immersed in the feeling of longing weren't given much love as children. They came to label the feeling of longing for their parents to accept them as "love."

I think most people do at least a bit of senseless longing now and then, but some people are just swamped by it. Occasionally feeling a bit stung that your spouse isn't... OK. I understand that. Going through a mid-life crisis, "throwing away happiness with both hands and reaching out for something that'll never make you happy", trading in your wife for a new one half her age and such for reasons that to impartial observers just don't add up: Probably not so great.

GWTW is really pretty lame in some ways, but those personalities still shine.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett, I don't think you made him this way. But you also cannot change him. I think he has always been this way. He is - let's call it - sexually simple. Or maybe, Mr. Vanilla. 

This is not an insult, it is simply how some people are. They may have a very high desire to have sex but have no desire or need for variation. Same way, same amount of time, no touching, no talking...this is just describing vanilla sex. But for some people this can be very rewarding and in fact, will be their only desired way of having sex for their whole lives. There is no reason that sex like this cannot be supremely fulfilling.

The problem is that doing anything more or different than the vanilla level likely will never be a priority for him, no matter what you say or how you say it.

So - I would suggest you work toward more connection and more intimacy...while remaining in the same lane you are in. Things like, making sure to keep eye contact all during the act and especially during his O. And beginning to talk, at least a tiny bit, during sex. 

You may have to have a talk with him and suggest these things as intimacy building exercises.

If you can start there, you might have some hope to go even further.

I think I suggested Passionate Marriage and Intimacy and Desire for you...did you pick up either one? I really like how the author talks about intimacy versus "horniness"...it is a topic too complicated to boil down into a post but...basically, you can deepen the intimacy and the satisfaction in YOUR sex life, without necessarily requiring HIM to make any changes.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Scarlett, I don't think you made him this way. But you also cannot change him. I think he has always been this way. He is - let's call it - sexually simple. Or maybe, Mr. Vanilla.
> 
> This is not an insult, it is simply how some people are. They may have a very high desire to have sex but have no desire or need for variation. Same way, same amount of time, no touching, no talking...this is just describing vanilla sex. But for some people this can be very rewarding and in fact, will be their only desired way of having sex for their whole lives. There is no reason that sex like this cannot be supremely fulfilling.


This is the point you make here better than I do. 

So much time and effort on this forum is spent in getting and giving advice on changing our partners that you would think it's a simple matter of finding the right acronym. The reality is that success is infrequent at best and when it does happen requires years of effort, patience, and hard work. People's likes and dislikes are very fundamental parts of their personality that are remarkably consistent over time. If, beyond simple tastes, they find Chocolate sex to be frightening, unsexy, degrading, or perverse, then ask yourself what you are really requiring of them to do for you. 

If you find yourself in a relationship where you expect to change your partner, you'd better be prepared to change yourself at least as much. You also better have a backup plan for the overwhelming likelihood of failure - which might include, once again, changing yourself.

Do I think this means that you should just "be happy" with what you have? That's no more realistic than expecting your spouse to start liking BDSM out of the blue. Maybe the best you can do, as Faithful alludes to here, is to learn to appreciate your intimate life for what it is rather than for what it isn't.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Faithful - I just downloaded that book on my kindle. 

Faithful and cletus - that seems.much less overwhelming of a prospect to make changes within the boundaries I find myself in. Small bites. I can likely manage that. You guys make valid points.

Bestyet - this is interesting comparing my feelings to my childhood experience. I am the oldest of 8 and my parents are great people and I was shown love - however - their attention and time for me was only a small portion of what I wanted it to be. The same situation as I infer with my sex life right now. I will need to ponder this some more.

Middle - what you describe is what we do, too, and I do know my h cites the same reasons for his.preference (he feels he lasts longer, he feels it is more intense for me) and this is true in part. I have not yet been able to get clitoral stimulation aside from manual in that position - but at this point the same can be said for any other position. I'm glad you and your wife have been able to find such a great solution.

T&t - I will read up on that post when I get a minute, thanks.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

One thing to remember is that this problem is likely not just one issue. So it could be that your husband right now is the result of some level of preference for vanilla (how much is unclear) *and *19 years of habit *and *some level of sexual inexperience/immaturity *and *the hurt feelings and uncertainty behind finding out that you were deceiving him and he has been doing it wrong *and* what ever other issues you may uncover. Your husband, right now, is some combination of these things (and lots of other things as well), just as you are some combination of your experiences. 

So working this problem may involve working multiple issues.


----------



## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Can I ask how old your husband and you are? Sorry if I missed that earlier.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

We are both 44. Although his libido has decreased somewhat there havent been physical changes over the years. I'm hitting the peri-menopause testosterone surge (I believe) so my libido has increased somewhat.

My frustrations (and mistakes of my own) with our sex lives are decades old, though. The one difference is that I became unable to suppress it any longer.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I wanted to add - last night I tried a new approach. I spent some time thinking about a specific scenario that I would like to happen with H. I then approached him and said - I've been thinking of something I'd really like to do with you. Then I explained and tried to be pretty specific (even though I am just learning to talk about sex.) 

So he was like - okay, let's do that Thursday? (He travels on business so is in and out during the week - no pun intended.) 

I'm going to have to lead, since I thought it up, but he's shown that he will try to meet my sexual requests - although he perhaps doesn't have the imagination I would like he will follow through to the best of his ability. 

I am testing my own boundaries and am working within my means. I can do it!


----------



## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

what about toys...when I look back at the girlfriend who had the hardest time reaching orgasm with a partner...it took a lot of oral, touching, a certain position during intercourse AND using a vibrator during intercourse...I held the vibrator of course and learned how to manipulate it...and finally she started having orgasms during sex...and the few times she didnt, I would resort back to oral and bang

not liking lady parts??? wtf...I dont get that at all...and I AM 100% a breast man...and i love lady parts

how does a man initiate forplay and get to the point intercourse is possible EVERY time without at the very least touching and caressing the lady parts...sure sometimes french kissing and a boob grope is enough to make her wet, but sorry it usually takes a little more


----------



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Would he read a book?

Amazon.com: Just F*ck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples) - Revised Edition eBook: Eve Kingsley: Kindle Store

I have had a bit of the opposite problem, although no where near as bad as you. My wife had a guilt thing over sex. Slowly, after reading together and having a good friend who helped her open up, she is much more adventurous in bed. MUCH more. People can change. Sure, basic personality remains the same, but people can change nonetheless.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> how does a man initiate forplay and get to the point intercourse is possible EVERY time without at the very least touching and caressing the lady parts...sure sometimes french kissing and a boob grope is enough to make her wet, but sorry it usually takes a little more


Like everything in life, it takes all kinds.

My wife is a "don't touch" gal. Doesn't like it, will barely stand for it, does nothing for her. Foreplay is that irritating 5 minutes you waste before getting to the sex (yeah, I know, I married a dude). That's why a tube of lube is never far from the night stand. 

Just adding my $0.02 because of the "I don't understand. How does..." comment. There are more things out there in the real world than you can possibly imagine.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Exactly, Cletus.

It doesn't matter that we - or the spouse even - don't understand it.

What matters is that you can't change another person.

Good luck, Scarlett!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> Would he read a book?
> 
> Amazon.com: Just F*ck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples) - Revised Edition eBook: Eve Kingsley: Kindle Store
> 
> I have had a bit of the opposite problem, although no where near as bad as you. My wife had a guilt thing over sex. Slowly, after reading together and having a good friend who helped her open up, she is much more adventurous in bed. MUCH more. People can change. Sure, basic personality remains the same, but people can change nonetheless.


I 2nd this. Good book.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> Would he read a book?
> 
> Amazon.com: Just F*ck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples) - Revised Edition eBook: Eve Kingsley: Kindle Store
> 
> I have had a bit of the opposite problem, although no where near as bad as you. My wife had a guilt thing over sex. Slowly, after reading together and having a good friend who helped her open up, she is much more adventurous in bed. MUCH more. People can change. Sure, basic personality remains the same, but people can change nonetheless.


I am not trying to steal your post but wanted to ask if there was a book for a man to give to his wife trying to explain how high his drive for romance and sex is towards her?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm open to toys - he's getting better. Because of a few comments he made over the years I thought he was very anti-toy and he never suggested them so it remained something we didn't talk about. He seems to be getting more used to the idea, though. 

I will approach him on the book - not much of a reader, but perhaps the subject would interest him. (LOL). 

I really never got an adequate answer from him about the never touching down there. But it was mostly my choice to not interrogate him over the past and instead try to be positive - a new start. 

This is humorous, though. I remember yelling at him - why don't you touch me there, do you hate p***y? Do you hate MY p***y? When I'm touching you and you aren't touching me what are you thinking - what is going through your head?! 

He says all calm like - uh, I'm thinking that I really like it when you touch my penis?? 

But anyway. The best I can piece together is he might have not thought he needed to if he was under the impression I was getting off without it. It is concerning, but he is trying to make amends. I got short changed on a few sexual things, but fortunately the lubrication has not been an issue, even if I was un-aroused at the time.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> But anyway. The best I can piece together is he might have not thought he needed to if he was under the impression I was getting off without it. It is concerning, but he is trying to make amends. I got short changed on a few sexual things, but fortunately the lubrication has not been an issue, even if I was un-aroused at the time.


What is your husband's sexual experience before you two got together?

Also, what is his personality?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

edbopc...would you call your marriage sexless? The original Sex Starved Marriage book does a pretty good job at helping the LD spouse to understand the HD's need for sex.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> He says all calm like - uh, I'm thinking that I really like it when you touch my penis??
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm going to have to lead...


















Sounds good. I've always been of the impression that the healthier marriages (entire families and workplaces, too for that matter) the more flexible people are in taking the lead. If one person ends up taking the lead in everything, always, that's not so good. If people are inflexible, the wife must do this, the husband that, the boss this, the younger sister always that, etc., not so good.


----------



## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> edbopc...would you call your marriage sexless? The original Sex Starved Marriage book does a pretty good job at helping the LD spouse to understand the HD's need for sex.


My wife and I ordered this book over the weekend. Just from reading the first chapter on the website she initiated TWO nights in a row. :smthumbup: 

MissScarlett, I don't know if you are similar to me, but I mis-heard my wife in the beginning of our relationship. She said flowers were nice, but not the be all end all. Being the dunderhead I am, I took her at her word. I sent her flowers not too long ago and the reaction was more than I hoped for. Perhaps your H has said something that you may have mis-heard or misunderstood about toys? May I suggest just getting something you are interested in that won't freak him out and introducing it on a date night?


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I fear you are creating your puppet and fear how this will affect you and your marriage.


One problem at a time, and also, some situations that seem rather similar to your experience (or mine) may not really develop that way.



Anon Pink said:


> Order the book and send it addressed to him. Then leave it alone.


I wish people would cite their favorite passages from books. Many people just aren't going to sit down and read a whole book. Unless it's fiction, my wife would never and needs an executive summary. I'm tired of people on TAM recommending their favorite books without explaining which passages they think are relevant and why.


----------



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

edbopc said:


> I am not trying to steal your post but wanted to ask if there was a book for a man to give to his wife trying to explain how high his drive for romance and sex is towards her?


"His Needs, Her, Needs" is a good one for both of you. Also google "when a woman isn't in the mood." Look for the article by Dennis Prager. He does a really good job of explaining why sex is so important to a man to feel loved.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> edbopc...would you call your marriage sexless? The original Sex Starved Marriage book does a pretty good job at helping the LD spouse to understand the HD's need for sex.


Not enough sex is what I feel, I have that book in my wish list. May get it but she probably would not read it.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

movealong said:


> My wife and I ordered this book over the weekend. Just from reading the first chapter on the website she initiated TWO nights in a row. :smthumbup:
> 
> MissScarlett, I don't know if you are similar to me, but I mis-heard my wife in the beginning of our relationship. She said flowers were nice, but not the be all end all. Being the dunderhead I am, I took her at her word. I sent her flowers not too long ago and the reaction was more than I hoped for. Perhaps your H has said something that you may have mis-heard or misunderstood about toys? May I suggest just getting something you are interested in that won't freak him out and introducing it on a date night?


also in my amazon wish list, thanks,,,problem is getting her to read them, thinks its my problem I guess.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> MissScarlett said:
> 
> 
> > I think I posted this before to you... You and your H are like Jane Bennet and Charles Bingley, nice to a fault
> ...


----------



## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

edbopc said:


> also in my amazon wish list, thanks,,,problem is getting her to read them, thinks its my problem I guess.



When I finally realized I was not going to be able to make her understand through my talking, I sent her an email to the first chapter and said "This is what I have been trying to tell you."



Divorce Busting® - Books on Marriage - First Chapter of Sex-Starved Marriage


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

movealong said:


> When I finally realized I was not going to be able to make her understand through my talking, I sent her an email to the first chapter and said "This is what I have been trying to tell you."
> 
> 
> 
> Divorce Busting® - Books on Marriage - First Chapter of Sex-Starved Marriage


I guess I got to do something, I am not happy with the situation here at all


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm open to toys - he's getting better. Because of a few comments he made over the years I thought he was very anti-toy and he never suggested them so it remained something we didn't talk about. He seems to be getting more used to the idea, though.
> 
> I will approach him on the book - not much of a reader, but perhaps the subject would interest him. (LOL).
> 
> ...


So Scarlett, do you have it pinned down exactly WHY you dont O? And specifically what it takes to get there? I'm just curious, because for so many women, its being on top that gets them off, so I am just wondering (sorry!) what it is about it that doesnt work for you. 

As far as toys go, have you tried the c*ckrings with the little bullet vibrator? Those are fun! Makes HIM your toy!


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'd say my H was average sexual experience before I met him. 

He's a really good business man, he's an alpha male, an excellent negotiator. He's really good at finding solutions, which is why he does so well in his job - he can see solutions outside the box.

Which makes this problem all the more ironic!

Sexually we are both passive, or both prefer the submissive roll. I think, as Faithful pointed out, he's rather vanilla when it comes to sex. I think he would be totally happy with the sex we are having now for the rest of his life. I think he only changes it up for me. 

I don't feel there is any malice from him in the way things have gone. He never asked and I didn't want to hurt his feelings. I wanted him to notice I wasn't getting off and he never did. When our kids were young we were having sex about 1/month - I was tired, unwell and had really gotten down on sex due to the same issues we are having now. We had one year I thought we were going to divorce, and then we had a new start and our sex life got a lot better - but I had made the choice then to fake and boost his ego.

Earlier this year during "the talks" I kept skirting around the clitoral issue and finally he was like - no seriously, what exactly are you talking about. I said - I need more clitoral stimulation - and it was like the first time he'd ever heard those words. I think he was just really uneducated (and I will take some responsibility for that.) 

My physical barriers are that I have pouty labia - my clitoris is very well insulated. I imagine it's also farther than average away from my vagina. I have never felt any clitoral stimulation in any sexual position, only from fingers.

I think I have an extended plateau phase as well. After the initial excitement it feels like nothing at all is happening for what seems like forever. I need 20-30 minutes of consistant stimulation - that's when I do it myself. With him trying to do it - it takes a lot longer or doesn't happen because this is new to him (I guess.)

I question if anything battery powered is intense enough - my experience with battery powered vibes thus far is that they take just as long as me masturbating by hand.

The vibrator I have is electric and very intense. This will work - pretty much guaranteed - but I am still on the fence on if it's wise to get used to it again (I have only used it the one time with him and not on my own since March). If he asked to use it on me it would be a yes - but since he has not asked I don't want to make bringing it in very often a replacement for him.

Emotionally - I harbor a fear/belief that he is repulsed by me, specifically by the lady parts (vulva, labia, etc) It's not difficult to see why I would believe this after 18 years of no touching/no oral. SO when he's trying to do these things for me now I can start to feel sorry for him, or feel like I am an inconvenience, or feel like he is only doing it because I made him or because he's ashamed he can't make his wife orgasm. Any of these feelings take orgasm off the table. Of course. It's not just a physical game but a mental one as well for me.

Of course, if I'd never said anything he probably would have never touched me/never given me oral - and if it's something he wanted to do he would have been doing it. So this is concerning.

All of the above is complicated by a husband who won't talk about sex and won't bring up a conversation on sex ever.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I also wanted to add - not that you could ever tell from reading THIS board - that there are tons of men who are totally ignorant of the female orgasm. In my group of 8 friends I'm pretty sure only 3 are getting off regularly. It's a very stereotypical thing - the man who can't find the clitoris with a map, the man who doesn't care if a woman gets off. Those stereotypes didn't come from nowhere. From my life experience that is fairly common.

I also think when men's primary exposure to sex is porn this gives a very unrealistic idea of how sex happens. I've watched porn - enough to say it's true - there is a genre of porn that has women actually orgasming and there is a long lead up of them doing not much but looking like they are asleep before it happens - with a man or woman providing clitoral stimulation. Contrasted with the more popular porn, with a woman moving through 10 sexual positions, screaming the whole time she is coming - yeah. Porn has done women some disservice in that area.

I'm editing to add - I don't think I ever will have O during PIV - and I'm fine with that. That's not even what I'm concerned with. I would just like to improve my sex life and I would like to incorporate O into something I can do with my husband - instead of by myself like it's always been.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Miss Scarlett, your husband could have married my wife and they would have had a long and very satisfying sex life together.

So he went all of those years without learning how to please you, but worse (if I may say so) is that he never even showed the least interest in learning how. Never heard the word "clitoral stimulation"? Under what rock does a man have to live in this day and age to have not heard about that? 

This in my marriage at least, and perhaps in yours, is the most telling part. Our partners lack sexual experience and the ability to perform at the level we find natural. That's a problem with a solution - ignorance is never a fault until it's revered. But those with no imagination, no desire to learn, no interest in becoming better lovers? Those are the attitudes that eat at your soul. That's how you know, deep down, that there's something fundamentally different in the way you view sex. 

That's the inherent personality trait that I believe to be nearly impossible to overcome.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Agreed, Cletus. Everything you said. Fundamental differences. 

And yet my husband is so funny and so thoughtful and shows me he loves me in many other ways. I have a good life with him and a good future on the horizon and I love him and enjoy his company. We travel and go on dates and have common friends and common interests.

However it's really sad and depressing to realize you have everything with a person except something that's really important to you and something you can't get from anyone else (under the agreed upon terms) FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. 

It's ****ty. And if masturbating and reading mommy porn lit could take the place of it I'd have no problems.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Agreed, Cletus. Everything you said. Fundamental differences.
> 
> And yet my husband is so funny and so thoughtful and shows me he loves me in many other ways. I have a good life with him and a good future on the horizon and I love him and enjoy his company. We travel and go on dates and have common friends and common interests.
> 
> ...


I'm not telling you to leave, or that you're unlucky. He's not a deadbeat, nor a drunk, nor uncaring, lazy, or stupid. You could have wound up with any of those alternatives and been worse off.

Just think of me as that little white angel on your shoulder. If I have a purpose here, it's to stand for the fact that the reality, as most sex therapists will attest, is that change of this nature is really hard. It's spotty, start and stop, frustrating, and often ultimately futile and non-lasting - because you're trying to fundamentally change the nature of another human. 

So I wish you luck. I think the effort is worth the doing. I think everyone in our position should try. I also think that should you fail, it should not be the sole reason to end an otherwise functioning marriage unless it's so important to you that you simply can't be happy without it. 

So I hope you can get what you want or find contentment without it. Either way you win.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I also wanted to add - not that you could ever tell from reading THIS board - that there are tons of men who are totally ignorant of the female orgasm. In my group of 8 friends I'm pretty sure only 3 are getting off regularly. It's a very stereotypical thing - the man who can't find the clitoris with a map, the man who doesn't care if a woman gets off. Those stereotypes didn't come from nowhere. From my life experience that is fairly common.
> 
> I also think when men's primary exposure to sex is porn this gives a very unrealistic idea of how sex happens. I've watched porn - enough to say it's true - there is a genre of porn that has women actually orgasming and there is a long lead up of them doing not much but looking like they are asleep before it happens - with a man or woman providing clitoral stimulation. Contrasted with the more popular porn, with a woman moving through 10 sexual positions, screaming the whole time she is coming - yeah. Porn has done women some disservice in that area.
> 
> I'm editing to add - I don't think I ever will have O during PIV - and I'm fine with that. That's not even what I'm concerned with. I would just like to improve my sex life and I would like to incorporate O into something I can do with my husband - instead of by myself like it's always been.


Totally agree about the porn crap, too many people lose sight that those people are acting. (BADLY! lol!)

So your issue is clitoral...so what about trying to learn to have a G spot orgasm through PIV?


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'd say my H was average sexual experience before I met him.
> 
> He's a really good business man, he's an alpha male, an excellent negotiator. He's really good at finding solutions, which is why he does so well in his job - he can see solutions outside the box.
> 
> ...


just like my wife It is my main goal to give her an orgasm, love to hear that moan, almost always has to be clit stimulation which is still have trouble finding. Or oral at the same time, I keep trying


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Totally agree about the porn crap, too many people lose sight that those people are acting. (BADLY! lol!)
> 
> So your issue is clitoral...so what about trying to learn to have a G spot orgasm through PIV?


I suppose I hadn't thought of tying for anything else till I got the one down. Is it like a college course where you have to take basic clitoral orgasm before you can take advanced g spot orgasm?

(Giggle.)


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I suppose I hadn't thought of tying for anything else till I got the one down. Is it like a college course where you have to take basic clitoral orgasm before you can take advanced g spot orgasm?
> 
> (Laughs at self.)


I have never been able to have a Gspot O from masturbation. For me I must be fully aroused for a Gspot O.

I can't buy into the fatalism of this is "just the way he is," not fully anyway. Not in my life and not concerning anyone else's life. Necessity is the mother of invention, complacency breeds mediocrity, you get what you settle for. Acceptance has always been and probably always will be something I struggle with, internally and externally. For me, this has always been a good thing more often than a bad thing. So it has been rewarded often enough to keep it going.

Have you told your husband this...


> Emotionally - I harbor a fear/belief that he is repulsed by me, specifically by the lady parts (vulva, labia, etc) It's not difficult to see why I would believe this after 18 years of no touching/no oral. SO when he's trying to do these things for me now I can start to feel sorry for him, or feel like I am an inconvenience, or feel like he is only doing it because I made him or because he's ashamed he can't make his wife orgasm. Any of these feelings take orgasm off the table. Of course. It's not just a physical game but a mental one as well for me.


And I would suggest you go further to explain his lack of enthusiasm or demonstrable interest in discovering various new methods of sexual stimulation is exactly the reason why you continue to feel slightly rejected. 

The follow it up with an email with links that he can use to educate himself about things that are important to you.

Maybe somewhere along the line he got the message about female sexuality that it is a myth? Maybe it wasn't porn but his own mentors and close male friends who continue to reinforce his false belief that women just aren't that sexual...not good women anyway...

I can't help feeling like your H needs a 2x4 to snap him out of complacency and get his ass up and proactively INVOLVED in finding solutions to this problem. Perhaps his male ego will take a hit in the short term. But he got over the stark reality that you don't orgasm through wishing it to happen! So he'll get over the 2x4 as well.

Lastly, your anatomical lay out is natural, normal and has nothing to do with orgasm difficulty. I have always wondered why the clit is so far from the vagina? It seems like it would have been better if the clit was placed where the urethra is and the urethra was placed where the clit is. I mean if the clit and the penis begin in utero as the same bundle of nerve cells that later develop into different body parts...it makes more sense. When I become queen of the world, this shall be fixed!

Bottom line, you know what you need and want from him. So you must also know that you have no hope of getting it unless you tell him. Without sugar coating and without blaming, you tell him what you've written here and you tell him you need his enthusiastic full participation in solving this problem!


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I was thinking about your situation a bit last night. Based on your description, your husband sounds very familiar to me. He sounds like he takes a lot of pride in taking care of you and supporting you. He also likely has the wrong view of female sexuality and the type of sex many women desire.

So, consider that he is off balance and pretty unsure of himself right now. He has found out that what was working for a large period of time was not. He does his job well and is an alpha male. Except that he is suddenly not. He sucks in the bedroom. If he is like you describe him, he very likely thinks that he failed you. And he has not gotten over the reality that he has failed for the last 18 years.

So your next thing to consider is that he fears failing you again and that fear is paralyzing him. He will do what you tell him to do, because he does want to please you. But he is scared to try something new and fail you again. And when the stuff you ask him to do does not work all the time (thus failing you again in his mind), he stops initiating those things as well.

So you may need to break through that fear. If truthful, make clear that he has not failed you, but that as you have changed, you need something different. Be clear that this is a problem that you need his help solving. Just like in work, you two are not necessarily going to solve it the first time, but that the two of you need to keep trying. 

Obviously, I don’t know him or you, but thought to give you a perspective on what he might be thinking and feeling to help you work through this.

Good luck.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I wanted to add - last night I tried a new approach. I spent some time thinking about a specific scenario that I would like to happen with H. I then approached him and said - I've been thinking of something I'd really like to do with you. Then I explained and tried to be pretty specific (even though I am just learning to talk about sex.)
> 
> So he was like - okay, let's do that Thursday? (He travels on business so is in and out during the week - no pun intended.)
> 
> ...


I know I'm late to the "party" but wanted to jump in.

Did you also ask him to be enthusiastic?

And if you think "but that's not him/it's not real" etc then the problem is squarely yours. You've had 18 years of built up walls and resentments. That's a lot of garbage to clear away. Give him and yourself a chance. 

I'll be blunt, you seem to WANT to be dissatisfied. It seems like he does what you ask, but you keep setting the bar higher. He's not going to be outgoing. He's "recently" found out his wife was faking for 8 years. That's going to affect his enthusiasm.

I'm not saying your wrong for wanting passion, we all want passion from our spouses. But I also think this is "fixable". WITH TIME AND EFFORT.

Plus I'd HIGHLY recommend a sex therapist. With 18 years of assumptions, resentments, lacking or missed communication, you both need a guide to get you back.

I also want to add MissScarlett, you need to stop blaming him for things that you don't ask for but assume he should do naturally. That's like the police having very strict speed limits without putting up any signs.

Your husband is very pragmatic, calm, laid back, solid, problem solver etc. Passion isn't a word that seems to ring true to him in any area. His approach to pleasing you is going to be the same. He has assumed for 18 years you were MOSTLY satisfied, due to you not expressing your needs. That's why he didn't change. If it aint broke. Don't fix it. Now that you've expressed yourself more, he's changing...Notice a pattern. He loves you, he desires you, I'm sure he has zero issues with your ladyparts. You're going to get from him what you specifically ask for because he DOES want to please you. You've been submissive in your approach and it doesn't work. Stop being submissive for the time being.

I truly believe you AND your husband can have a great sex life, if you give it a chance.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I commend you for trying so hard.
I commend you for putting your fears aside to make things better.
I comment you for being patient.
I commend you for your perserverance.
I commend you for your objectivity.
I commend you for your honesty.(except the faking for years)


don't let the little failures get in your way. you are a strong resilant woman.

good luck.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Emotionally - I harbor a fear/belief that he is repulsed by me, specifically by the lady parts (vulva, labia, etc) It's not difficult to see why I would believe this after 18 years of no touching/no oral. SO when he's trying to do these things for me now I can start to feel sorry for him, or feel like I am an inconvenience, or feel like he is only doing it because I made him or because he's ashamed he can't make his wife orgasm. Any of these feelings take orgasm off the table. Of course. It's not just a physical game but a mental one as well for me.


I share these same feelings. While my husband will touch me, he is never enthusiastic about it. I have to ask for sex. Your right, it's hard not to believe he is repulsed by you. I too begin feeling sorry for him, or feel like an inconvenience. Because it seems like if he wanted to do it I wouldn't have to ask.

Oral is even worse. He never does that on his own. While oral is a part of foreplay for him every encounter, he hadn't given me or mentioned oral sex for months and months. I finally came out and asked him for it, and while he obliged after a few minutes I felt guilty for asking and told him he could stop if he wanted to. Of course he stopped instantly, so that only reaffirmed that he didn't enjoy it. 

I find your story just so sad. There is no way I could have kept quiet for so long. I'm hoping we can both find happiness and figure out what in the heck our guys are thinking.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yeah Scarlett....it might be time for an ST...to get talking about these things together in a useful way.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Thanks again, everyone.

I also want to note that I'm using this board to help me think things over and to explore different points of view and to help me take the next step. 

I do try very hard to be encouraging to my husband and when he is trying these things that are new to him I give a lot of verbal and physical affirmation. While it's true I'm not having orgasms I am telling him what he's doing is feeling good and that I think about it when he's gone (on work). I also have tried to step up the verbal and physical affirmations when we aren't having sex. 

I don't sit there and say he's disappointing me or just lying there like I can't be bothered. I also haven't asked him to be more passionate or enthusiastic because I feel that needs to be organic. 

All I've asked him for is more foreplay and clitoral stimulation. I am a willing participant - I'm trying to work on it with him. You guys know a million percent more about my thoughts on this than I've told H. And perhaps I'm not being honest enough with him but I would never, never say the hurtful things I've said here to him. I don't say them to our friends, I don't write them in my journal. 

I know it's a difficult situation to work through but I do want positive change - not like step up your game because you are failing me. 

I appreciate the optimism and am feeling better than I was a few days ago. I do believe if 2 people are willing to work on something there will be change. I just wish it weren't do damned difficult.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There really isn't anything wrong with "step up your game, you are failing me" if it is delivered in an honest and easy way. They would tell him this at work, and he is an adult and would respond like one, I assume? Give him that much credit in the bedroom, too. It might sting but...he really does need to know the full story.

Again, sex therapy together might be the way to do that.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> I share these same feelings. While my husband will touch me, he is never enthusiastic about it. I have to ask for sex. Your right, it's hard not to believe he is repulsed by you. I too begin feeling sorry for him, or feel like an inconvenience. Because it seems like if he wanted to do it I wouldn't have to ask.
> 
> Oral is even worse. He never does that on his own. While oral is a part of foreplay for him every encounter, he hadn't given me or mentioned oral sex for months and months. I finally came out and asked him for it, and while he obliged after a few minutes I felt guilty for asking and told him he could stop if he wanted to. Of course he stopped instantly, so that only reaffirmed that he didn't enjoy it.
> 
> I find your story just so sad. There is no way I could have kept quiet for so long. I'm hoping we can both find happiness and figure out what in the heck our guys are thinking.


My H doesn't go down on me very often and even less often can I bring myself to ask for it. I can joke about it, I can say things like..."why are our shaving schedules off kilter?" Or touch his face and say, "ooh maybe I'll go shave too!" (We both get brush burns when we need a shave during oral) but can't seriously ask him why.

CW, have you read Intimacy and Desire? If not, I really think this may help you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> There really isn't anything wrong with "step up your game, you are failing me" if it is delivered in an honest and easy way. They would tell him this at work, and he is an adult and would respond like one, I assume? Give him that much credit in the bedroom, too. It might sting but...he really does need to know the full story.
> 
> Again, sex therapy together might be the way to do that.


A million times true! Wish I could like this more than once.

It's hard, but it's true.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Taking these a bit out of order



MissScarlett said:


> I don't sit there and say he's disappointing me or just lying there like I can't be bothered. I also haven't asked him to be more passionate or enthusiastic because I feel that needs to be organic.


I am sure you have not said those words. My point is merely that he very likely thinks he has failed you and is a disappointment in bed. You told him that he failed in the bedroom the last 18 years. Right now, he is almost certainly viewing your every word and action regarding sex through that lens. So when you have him try something different, and it does not get you there (for whatever reason), he has failed you yet again.

To be clear, I am not saying you should not have told him. I am noting that it will take time to change that lens now that he knows.




> I do try very hard to be encouraging to my husband and when he is trying these things that are new to him I give a lot of verbal and physical affirmation. While it's true I'm not having orgasms I am telling him what he's doing is feeling good and that I think about it when he's gone (on work). I also have tried to step up the verbal and physical affirmations when we aren't having sex.


So here is the tricky part. This is all good in theory, but be careful that it is not too much. He may not believe it if it is over the top.

Two ideas came to mind that might be useful:

1. You note that he is a problem solver. What about giving this to him as a problem? Repeat the problem and note that you can't solve it yourself. You need his help and ask him to look into solutions. Request that he research it and bring in a suggestion or two to bed this Saturday. Emphasize that this is an ongoing project that is about finding as many solutions as you two can.

2. Anything else sexually you would like to do? Something that can take your mind off of reaching an orgasm, and that would help boost his confidence? Perhaps you want it rougher, or would like some role play, or want sex outside or whatever? Something to add to remind you two about what you can do, as opposed to focusing on the one thing that you two can't do.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Thanks again, everyone.
> 
> I also want to note that I'm using this board to help me think things over and to explore different points of view and to help me take the next step.
> 
> ...


MissScarlett, I'm probably very similar to your husband in some ways (not sexually, but the calm, pragmatic, personality) so I can talk from that point of view.

In regards to what I've bolded, It's only hurtful if its said with malice, otherwise it's "brutally" honest. Hurtful is from the intent of relaying information, not the information itself. Now I'm not recommending you just have diarrhea of the mouth and lay EVERYTHING out all at once, but here is where your husband's mentality is good. He can process and fix problems well, including his wife in the bedroom. Be honest, be blunt and don't hold back your feelings.

I'm truly sorry for you because I can sense how much love you and your husband share. The wonderful thing though is sex is more a learned technique which means your Husband can "get there". He may not turn into Ramone the Spanish Adonis, but I'm SURE, with love, communication and mutual support, he can be what you need him to be.


----------



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

I feel sad that you are going through this, but on the other hand, yes, you are responsible for your orgasms, and somewhat responsible for having great sex. Your husband sounds very uptight, I just don't get how he was never into performing oral on you, men usually love this. However, there's no point going over the why's of your past. One thing I would do is start talking about sex, and talk about it a lot, and if he says little or nothing, keep talking. You will need to be very clear about what you want and enjoy. The more you talk about it, the easier it gets, and eventually, you will hear from him.

Also, most women only orgasm after about 20+ minutes, don't stress on the time it takes you. And you won't every time either, it's a very mental thing for women.

I totally understand what you're saying about passion and desire, I really think all women want this. This is where communication is really important. You have to let him know when you're in the mood, and use some teasing words during the day to let him know. I realize it may not come from him right away, keep doing it, keep talking.

I say this because my SO is a bit shy when it comes to talking about sex, and the whole making me feel desired. My ex was the total oposite, so it was tricky to bring it up at first, and it was uncomfortable for sure. My SO was quiet at first, taking it all in, and he eventually opened up, and saw that I was open for these discussions. I told him what I needed, and he realized that when he delivers what I need, it makes us both happy. This took several months, but was well worth it.

Not sure this helps really, but I'm optomistic things can change for you because your spouse is not LD. But, I think you'll have to do a lot of the work for the next while in terms of getting him to open up about sex.


----------



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I have never been able to have a Gspot O from masturbation. For me I must be fully aroused for a Gspot O.
> 
> I can't buy into the fatalism of this is "just the way he is," not fully anyway. Not in my life and not concerning anyone else's life. Necessity is the mother of invention, complacency breeds mediocrity, you get what you settle for. Acceptance has always been and probably always will be something I struggle with, internally and externally. For me, this has always been a good thing more often than a bad thing. So it has been rewarded often enough to keep it going.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this, you can't just say "that's the way he is", that's a cop out, most people are sexual, and most people are willing to learn how to please their partner. I would add even that the more a partner sees the other enjoying themselves, the more turned on they get.


----------



## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Its one thing if the problem is linked to erectile dysfunction...something that is physical and he cant control...THEN I would see not being brutally honest for fear of making it worse

but your asking him or needing him to step up the clit stimulaiton...things that an erection arent needed to do...there is no physical reason he cant spend more time learning how to touch and lick you to make you happy, his tongue and his fingers work regardless of his arrousal or any psychological barriers...know what I mean???

just let him have it...tell him your asking him to do something YOU KNOW he can do...thats what I would do anyways


----------



## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

movealong said:


> My wife and I ordered this book over the weekend. Just from reading the first chapter on the website she initiated TWO nights in a row. :smthumbup:
> 
> MissScarlett, I don't know if you are similar to me, but I mis-heard my wife in the beginning of our relationship. She said flowers were nice, but not the be all end all. Being the dunderhead I am, I took her at her word. I sent her flowers not too long ago and the reaction was more than I hoped for. Perhaps your H has said something that you may have mis-heard or misunderstood about toys? May I suggest just getting something you are interested in that won't freak him out and introducing it on a date night?


I just got this reserved at the library, wife agreed to read it and with no reserves, which surprised me. So we will see....:smthumbup:


----------



## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Oral is even worse. He never does that on his own. While oral is a part of foreplay for him every encounter, he hadn't given me or mentioned oral sex for months and months. I finally came out and asked him for it, and while he obliged after a few minutes I felt guilty for asking and told him he could stop if he wanted to. Of course he stopped instantly, so that only reaffirmed that he didn't enjoy it.


Same here. My husband has never (that I can remember) done oral on me. BUT he loves oral on him all the time. And I comply and enjoy pleasing him like that. I can't bring myself to ask him why he has never even tried to do oral on me. I trim, shave, clean, etc with some hope he might some day catch on that I might like him to. But if I were to ask I would feel like he really didn't want to (otherwise he would have without me asking him to). I figure if he desired to do that, he would have by now. And if I have to ask for it, he would probably go ahead but I would be thinking the whole time that he is grossed out by it. 

What is it with guys who won't do oral on their wife but expect a BJ all the time?


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Wife5362 said:


> Same here. My husband has never (that I can remember) done oral on me. BUT he loves oral on him all the time. And I comply and enjoy pleasing him like that. I can't bring myself to ask him why he has never even tried to do oral on me. I trim, shave, clean, etc with some hope he might some day catch on that I might like him to. But if I were to ask I would feel like he really didn't want to (otherwise he would have without me asking him to). I figure if he desired to do that, he would have by now. And if I have to ask for it, he would probably go ahead but I would be thinking the whole time that he is grossed out by it.
> 
> What is it with guys who won't do oral on their wife but expect a BJ all the time?


It is so strange reading all these posts about men not giving sex to their wives when its a complete opposite in my life. I am just in awe that a man would not go down on a wife that wanted him too, I mean wtf?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Being LD (or "vanilla") is not a gender specific issue. I'm so happy that this is being understood by more and more people. It is an important part of overall sexual awareness.

The more people who understand this, the more women will actually reach out for help about it.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Being LD (or "vanilla") is not a gender specific issue. I'm so happy that this is being understood by more and more people. It is an important part of overall sexual awareness.
> 
> The more people who understand this, the more women will actually reach out for help about it.


I feel like I am inferior here when I try and talk to my wife about it, she acts like its something wrong with me, I usually hear " that's all you think about is sex ". I have given my all to try and fix this problem here.


----------



## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

edbopc said:


> I feel like I am inferior here when I try and talk to my wife about it, she acts like its something wrong with me, I usually hear " that's all you think about is sex ". I have given my all to try and fix this problem here.


I think it is even worse for women since men are typically accused of "that's all you think about is sex." For women having a normal sex drive with a husband with low drive or just plain vanilla, it makes the woman feel like a freak for even liking sex. My husband said something jokingly to me about being a sex maniac the other day. Well, who would consider a desire to do it at least once a week being a sex maniac? I was just not happy with the once a month (or less) that we had fallen into.

Scarlet, I can also relate to some of your situation although my husband had always been good about making sure I came first because in that state immediately after I would do anything (including BJ) he wanted. But I have never had a PIV orgasm so I do not think you are unusual at all in that respect. 

Lately though my husband has become less focused on me having an orgasm (and I typically take less than 10 minutes, sometimes a lot less). Twice in the past month he has stopped clitoral stimulation (about 5 minutes into it) right when I am on that edge and said something about his hand falling asleep! Talk about a mood killer. And lately about half the time it is just me pleasuring him and that's it. We are done!


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Wife5362 said:


> I think it is even worse for women since men are typically accused of "that's all you think about is sex." For women having a normal sex drive with a husband with low drive or just plain vanilla, it makes the woman feel like a freak for even liking sex. My husband said something jokingly to me about being a sex maniac the other day. Well, who would consider a desire to do it at least once a week being a sex maniac? I was just not happy with the once a month (or less) that we had fallen into.
> 
> Scarlet, I can also relate to some of your situation although my husband had always been good about making sure I came first because in that state immediately after I would do anything (including BJ) he wanted. But I have never had a PIV orgasm so I do not think you are unusual at all in that respect.
> 
> Lately though my husband has become less focused on me having an orgasm (and I typically take less than 10 minutes, sometimes a lot less). Twice in the past month he has stopped clitoral stimulation (about 5 minutes into it) right when I am on that edge and said something about his hand falling asleep! Talk about a mood killer. And lately about half the time it is just me pleasuring him and that's it. We are done!


My wife is very hard to bring to orgasm too, I have worn myself completely out trying until SHE gives up. Then I feel like I do not please or satisfy her. She needs to see a doctor in my opinion bur once again its my problem.


----------



## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

My wife knows she's responsible for her own orgasm when we have sex.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Just to state the obvious - bad news does not get better in time. I had made this decision 10 years ago to never tell my husband how unsatisfied I was. I was going to take it to the grave and never tell a soul.

In retrospect I made many mistakes but my biggest mistake was not saying something long, long ago. This news is never good news to deliver. This news is hurtful - but it definitely doesn't get better in time. You certainly don't earn anything by keeping your feelings to yourself for 18 years. 

I do think at the beginning I felt I was marrying up and I didn't want to do anything to jeopardize the relationship. We met and were married within 9 months. After dating a string of a-holios I was so happy to be with a nice, honest man and I wanted him. I was going to deal with the rest later. I just never anticipated it being 18 years later!

I know I sound like a broken record, but thanks for the feedback everyone. I think it's very helpful to hear different points of view and its making me challenge my own beliefs and consider this issue in different ways. This board is invaluable (a word which I always think sounds like not valuable. But anyway.) Very valuable. Priceless really.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I can't buy into the fatalism of this is "just the way he is," not fully anyway. Not in my life and not concerning anyone else's life. Necessity is the mother of invention, complacency breeds mediocrity, you get what you settle for. Acceptance has always been and probably always will be something I struggle with, internally and externally. For me, this has always been a good thing more often than a bad thing. So it has been rewarded often enough to keep it going.


You could say I'm familiar with this attitude. Sigh. Sure you're hard on other people, but you're surely at least as hard on yourself, so you're entitled to be hard on them. Yes?

If something's perfect, there's no improving on it. If something's terrible, of course strive to improve it.

But most of life is somewhere in the middle, and to be fixated on improving things that aren't all that terrible is to make the decision that you're going to spend much of your life in a state of disappointment. Having high standards and expectations and being hard to please means you aren't going to be pleased very often. For years, people hinted to me that this attitude was counterproductive. For some reason it took me a long time to appreciate this, and even today I feel I don't allow myself to be pleased with life as fully as I might. But I'm generally a lot happier with my attitude now than in the past.

I guess I thought that if I cut the critical attitude I'd fail to adequately strive for and achieve improvements. Quite the contrary, when I can cut the criticism, I am more loving with others, and equally with myself, and improvements are more likely.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Just to state the obvious - bad news does not get better in time. I had made this decision 10 years ago to never tell my husband how unsatisfied I was. I was going to take it to the grave and never tell a soul.
> 
> In retrospect I made many mistakes but my biggest mistake was not saying something long, long ago. This news is never good news to deliver. This news is hurtful - but it definitely doesn't get better in time. You certainly don't earn anything by keeping your feelings to yourself for 18 years.
> 
> ...


I get told I am not hitting the right spot, too hard, too soft, all the time. Yes its an ago buster but I sure as hell keep trying. I hope your situation gets better!


----------



## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

edbopc said:


> It is so strange reading all these posts about men not giving sex to their wives when its a complete opposite in my life. I am just in awe that a man would not go down on a wife that wanted him too, I mean wtf?


Yeah, I prefer going down on my wife at all times. I'd rather go down on her than have her give me oral. It is such a turn on to have the opportunity to give my wife such intense pleasure!


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Miss Scarlett's scenario worked. Sitting on H lap and facing away from him using vibrator. 

I'm thinking that he will oblige me in what I ask - but I need to change my thinking waiting for him to think these things up. I think I can adapt and be the one to lead in these instances and then give him what he asks for too, which is our regular thing we do. 

Adapt - its the motto of our species.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

MS, my wife orgasms most readily through PIV with a vibe on her cl!t, do you find that a winning combination as well?

I'm assuming you use a Hitachi, based on previous posts. We used to use one of those, but found it too bulky. Now we use a smaller one, but just change the batteries frequently.

I think if you can adapt to being the one who make suggestions, and takes the lead, you will both be happier. I wanted my wife to initiate more frequently for years (she does this about 25% of the time), but I finally realized that is just not her thing.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Miss Scarlett's scenario worked. Sitting on H lap and facing away from him using vibrator.
> 
> I'm thinking that he will oblige me in what I ask - but I need to change my thinking waiting for him to think these things up. I think I can adapt and be the one to lead in these instances and then give him what he asks for too, which is our regular thing we do.
> 
> Adapt - its the motto of our species.


So you did have an orgasm?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Yes, I did have an o and I do think the vibe is a good means to an end. I'm very fond of my vibrator but even so I don't want to rely on it all the time. It is not a Hitachi but rather a massager made by conaire, I think, that one can purchase at walgreens.

More than the o, though, the thing I keep thinking about was that I had brought this up to him a few days ago - trying to be as specific as I could. (I keep trying to make him read my mind but thus far it hasn't worked.) Anyway - he made sure it happened just as I had described. He made sure it happened today, when he said it would. More than o or not o I felt like my desires were important to him and he heard me and he wants to do that for me - even if he wouldnt have thought of it himself.

In short the intimacy was more important than the act and I find I'm not sitting here saying I had an o today but rather wow, h showed me that he cares about me. I'm important to him. At the end of the day that's what matters.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Yes, I did have an o and I do think the vibe is a good means to an end. I'm very fond of my vibrator but even so I don't want to rely on it all the time. It is not a Hitachi but rather a massager made by conaire, I think, that one can purchase at walgreens.

More than the o, though, the thing I keep thinking about was that I had brought this up to him a few days ago - trying to be as specific as I could. (I keep trying to make him read my mind but thus far it hasn't worked.) Anyway - he made sure it happened just as I had described. He made sure it happened today, when he said it would. More than o or not o I felt like my desires were important to him and he heard me and he wants to do that for me - even if he wouldnt have thought of it himself.

In short the intimacy was more important than the act and I find I'm not sitting here saying I had an o today but rather wow, h showed me that he cares about me. I'm important to him. At the end of the day that's what matters.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Yes, I did have an o and I do think the vibe is a good means to an end. I'm very fond of my vibrator but even so I don't want to rely on it all the time. It is not a Hitachi but rather a massager made by conaire, I think, that one can purchase at walgreens.
> 
> More than the o, though, the thing I keep thinking about was that I had brought this up to him a few days ago - trying to be as specific as I could. (I keep trying to make him read my mind but thus far it hasn't worked.) Anyway - he made sure it happened just as I had described. He made sure it happened today, when he said it would. More than o or not o I felt like my desires were important to him and he heard me and he wants to do that for me - even if he wouldnt have thought of it himself.
> 
> In short the intimacy was more important than the act and I find I'm not sitting here saying I had an o today but rather wow, h showed me that he cares about me. I'm important to him. At the end of the day that's what matters.


Just perfect! Congrats!


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Love it,


----------



## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> I just got this reserved at the library, wife agreed to read it and with no reserves, which surprised me. So we will see....:smthumbup:


Just update. The wife finally picked it up.....she was somewhat insulted in a way I guess that I got it from the library. But she decided to read the first chapter last night. She renewed the checkout with the library and she wants to read the whole thing now. Book = Sex Starved Marriage.

And she was open to talking last night......and much much more!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> Just update. The wife finally picked it up.....she was somewhat insulted in a way I guess that I got it from the library. But she decided to read the first chapter last night. She renewed the checkout with the library and she wants to read the whole thing now. Book = Sex Starved Marriage.
> 
> And she was open to talking last night......and much much more!!! :smthumbup:


Hum I wonder if our library has that one?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Since someone else bumped this I will offer a quick update. In short nothing has happened since the Halloween episode that worked very well. We have had sex 2x but no attempt on his part to do anything for me. I did confront him on this the day after the last attempt and no sex since then. 

(As a side note my husband does travel for business so is often gone M-F so opportunities are somewhat limited. But still.) 

This recent turn of events has caused Miss Scarlett to vow to take a lover, divorce her husband and so forth. 

It always feels that any progress is followed by a set-back. I had given up the vibrator in favor of a more organic orgasm but have since resumed, feeling that my husband will just never catch on and feeling very sorry for myself indeed.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Since someone else bumped this I will offer a quick update. In short nothing has happened since the Halloween episode that worked very well. We have had sex 2x but no attempt on his part to do anything for me. I did confront him on this the day after the last attempt and no sex since then.
> 
> (As a side note my husband does travel for business so is often gone M-F so opportunities are somewhat limited. But still.)
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

It's difficult when you believe you're making progress on something to temper your expectations. I'm guilty of the same thing--I feel like because progress is made one night, that it's an omen that good things are just going to fall into place. Then when that doesn't happen I crash hard. I think maybe the trick is to remind ourselves when we DO make some progress of how much effort it took to get there, and recognize that the hard work doesn't stop at that point.


----------



## Sudra (Oct 16, 2013)

_This recent turn of events has caused Miss Scarlett to vow to take a lover, divorce her husband and so forth._

I'm so sorry for your struggles but I really hope you are kidding about this! If you are that unhappy, divorce but don't cheat first. Get the lover after.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Since someone else bumped this I will offer a quick update. In short nothing has happened since the Halloween episode that worked very well. We have had sex 2x but no attempt on his part to do anything for me. I did confront him on this the day after the last attempt and no sex since then.
> 
> (As a side note my husband does travel for business so is often gone M-F so opportunities are somewhat limited. But still.)
> 
> ...


Ouch. 

I understand the progress than set-back. It's the same way here. I'll feel like I'm getting somewhere, then something twice as bad will happen. We just can't win, eh.

I've also been self pleasuring myself more than normal here lately. Even last night after an unsatisfactory sex session. 

It's getting to the point where it's easier to not bother him and just do it myself. No judgement, no bothering him, no feeling to hurry up. It's bad when you just want him to hurry up and finish so you can go attend to your own needs.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Since someone else bumped this I will offer a quick update. In short nothing has happened since the Halloween episode that worked very well. We have had sex 2x but no attempt on his part to do anything for me. I did confront him on this the day after the last attempt and no sex since then.
> 
> (As a side note my husband does travel for business so is often gone M-F so opportunities are somewhat limited. But still.)
> 
> ...



OMG that just pisses me off sooooo much!

It doesn't matter how tired he is, how often he travels. If sex is happening, your pleasure MUST be a priority TO HIM!!!!!!

I don't know how many ways you can say it? He's just not getting it. When a man wants sex with his wife, why the hell should she oblige being the whole into which he inserts himself? 

Buy him this and tell him to F off!
Joanna Angel™ CyberSkin® ***** Stroker (W1463-7) - $29.95 w/FREE Shipping


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I am not truly considering taking a lover. I was being melodramatic.

Although - up till the past month I never thought about divorce as a truly viable option. I think under the circumstances it's not abnormal to let my mind run away with itself imagining meeting someone that was sexually compatible with me and this thing that is difficult and complicated would disappear. 

Those are just thoughts, though, born of frustration.

I've had a difficult week, very busy, lots of schedules to work around. Then my car started having troubles as well. H rearranged his schedule and rushed himself to make earlier flights so he could get home 6 hours earlier yesterday, bringing our 2nd car back from the airport and taking quite a bit off my shoulders. In other ways besides the sex he truly does all he can to care for me. 

We speak two different languages when it comes to sex, though. I don't know if he really doesn't care if I get off or not or what is going through his brain. I don't think he's meanly withholding.

Anyway. It's like with my kids rooms. I can hassle them and make their life difficult till they get their rooms clean - but it's so much more peaceful and easy to just clean it myself. Like curious was saying - 10 min with the vibrator and I don't have to deal with any bull****. 

I dunno. My sexual experience is somewhat limited, I suppose. I haven't ever gotten to be with someone that made the female orgasm a priority. I just wonder sometimes what it would be like. 

Is it me? Did I pick the men who didn't make it a priority because I didn't want to have to deal with the bull****? Did I not care that much about myself? The mind is a mysterious thing.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Anyway. It's like with my kids rooms. I *can hassle them and make their life difficult till they get their rooms clean - but it's so much more peaceful and easy to just clean it myself.* Like curious was saying - 10 min with the vibrator and I don't have to deal with any bull****.
> 
> I dunno. My sexual experience is somewhat limited, I suppose. I haven't ever gotten to be with someone that made the female orgasm a priority. *I just wonder sometimes what it would be like.*
> 
> *Is it me? * Did I pick the men who didn't make it a priority because I didn't want to have to deal with the bull****? Did I not care that much about myself? The mind is a mysterious thing.


:whip:
This is me smacking you for equating a distasteful chore, cleaning your bedroom, to a wonderful experience of rocking your wife's world!!!!

Bad MissScarlett! Very Very Bad!

YOU are ENTITLED to be lovingly fulfilled each and every Fiing time you and your husband have sex!!! Each and EVERY TIME!

If you don't make it a priority, you are telling him that it's okay for him not to make it a priority. If you don't show your displeasure at the lack of effort into your pleasure, you are telling him it's okay to put my sexual needs on the back burner.

MissScarlett, don't make me jump through this computer screen and take you out for a raunchy girls weekend where we b!tch about our husbands, load one another with compliments, go out dancing, and remember how fabulous and WORTH IT we are!

Buy your husband that toy and tell him that he can use that when he simply wants to get laid. Tell him your available when he wants to SHARE LOVE and PLEASURE!!!!


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Could it be that your hubby feels like a failure for being unable to give you an orgasm, so he's kinda shutting down altogether on the sexual front? I imagine some guys could internalize their "failure" and feel like all attempts would just make them feel worse and less manly.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I am not truly considering taking a lover. I was being melodramatic.
> 
> Although - up till the past month I never thought about divorce as a truly viable option. I think under the circumstances it's not abnormal to let my mind run away with itself imagining meeting someone that was sexually compatible with me and this thing that is difficult and complicated would disappear.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

We are so alike. Everything is the same here.

He is so good to me with everything else.

And I also have no idea what his real feeling & thoughts are about sex, but I too think my husband is not purposely being mean. 

The cleaning rooms is a good analogy. That's exactly how it is. Sure you can stomp around and demand your way, and they will eventually do it. But it's not peaceful, or satisfying, and in the end it's just easier to do it yourself.


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> it's so much more peaceful and easy to just clean it myself. Like curious was saying - 10 min with the vibrator and I don't have to deal with any bull****.
> 
> I don't think he's meanly withholding.


OK, so here's a thought: If even part of you feels like partner sex isn't worth the sorrows, compared with do-it-yourself, do you think there's a chance your husband might misunderstand the magnitude of your feelings?

In the past, when my wife was withholding, I tended to be angrier. My assumption was she wanted me this way, and attributed it to marital warfare. Well, yes, I'm sure there was an element of that, but I think LD people tend to be oblivious. I've found it helpful to be very specific as to why I was unhappy, throughout the day.

In isolation, this might only yield a bit more duty sex, corpse sex, but as an element of a full spectrum marriage improvement program, I'm convinced it's invaluable.



MissScarlett said:


> I am not truly considering taking a lover. I was being melodramatic.


Yeah, I got that. You could consider stabbing him in the butt with some of those progesterone in heavy oil syringes, though. (I know of those, and Now I'm being melodramatic.)


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

norajane said:


> Could it be that your hubby feels like a failure for being unable to give you an orgasm, so he's kinda shutting down altogether on the sexual front? I imagine some guys could internalize their "failure" and feel like all attempts would just make them feel worse and less manly.


I'm sure that on some level, probably a lot of levels, he felt that way, but what is a wife supposed to do when she has done ALL that MissScarlett has done to bring fulfilling passion to the bedroom?

Can you tell I feel some ownership here that is way out of place? Backing slowly out of the thread now.....


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Its not that I am impossible to get off. I don't know how I compare to other women - I know some women have a lot less trouble - but I think my case is more a matter of putting the time in. We've brought a vibrator in and Ive don't it myself wig him - so he should know there are options.

I know part of the problem is me because I keep my disappointment inside and say nothing. Because I don't want him putting the time in because I made him feel bad or because I had to ask him to. I want him to care and to want to please me. Having to ask for it makes it below what I want. 

And then when I do ask his response is - well why didn't you say something earlier? Like years ago?

Some parts of my marriage are quite easy. I just wish this were easy for once. 

Ah yes, those lovely progesterone syringes - good times!


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Does the conversation continue? Do you tell him why you didn't tell him years ago?


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> ...I know part of the problem is me...


So you're sort of agreeing with me, and it's therefore good news, because you can change yourself.

Husband with bad character, addictions, etc.: not so easy to change.

Taking charge and becoming a bit more of your avatar: easier. Fiddle-dee-dee!


----------



## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Can you tell I feel some ownership here that is way out of place? Backing slowly out of the thread now.....


Uh huh, so what I think is really interesting, my learning experience, is to stop and think about which people, which situations on TAM, that I glom onto, why, and what I might learn about myself in my reactions.

The image of one's self. The opposite sex image of one's self. The complete opposite of one's self. Where I think I might share my insight into a familiar situation. Where the situation is so different from what I've ever imagined that I know I'm totally clueless. And my personal favorite, the "There but for the grace of god might easily have been me" situations.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm only up to page four. But I find myself wondering what goes through your mind when he is giving you oral, and what goes through his at that very same time. (Not my place to ask, but worth considering asking yourself and him, IMHO.)

I had just read someone state a rather negative possible answer set, and IIRC you didn't challenge her on that. It seems to me it is possible he is giving you oral because he loves you dearly, and he finds you beautiful, and there is a significant part of him that wants to satisfy you -- despite the hurt and embarrassment he might feel for not being able to truly satisfy you those many years.

Of course, I have no way of knowing. And neither do you until you ask and ask again and learn how to regularly state truths -- uncomfortable truths -- to oneself and to the other. My wife and I are only starting to be able to talk through to the truthful part of the conversations. I think until recently we were doing everything necessary to avoid talking about the elephants in room, including the ones in the bedroom.

In the four pages read so far, my sense is you two are not talking directly with each other about the real disappointments and sadness and hurt and resentments. My sense is that is what you both need focus on having conversations about these matters and only truthful ones.

Imagine if he could know how you feel -- what you have expressed in these posts -- yet not be devastated by it. Imagine knowing what he has been feeling -- knowing for sure what it is, rather than just guessing that it is not what you want it to be. That is where you need to get to so you can have a really intimate connection. But you sound so afraid that he know what is in your heart right now. You're afraid to even write in your journal. 

I'm not saying the solution is to go tell him every thought you have on these matters. But it seems to me an important part of the problem is that it hurts too much or there is to much fear that you are both keeping your distance. And that is not going to work.

You suggested it might be easier to just start faking it. Why does that sound appealling to you? (I am asking, not being critical of you.) I know you are really trying, and it must have taken much courage to tell him the truth. But I sense it is difficult for you to be direct with him. What's in it for you to be alienated from him? Maybe there is nothing, but if you had to guess what would it be? What might you be afraid of?


I don't mean to sound preachy. But I think I am starting to learn something in my own marriage that might be useful to you and I am eager to share: What he thinks and feels, and what you think and feel -- these things are what they are. You can't make progress by imagining what is each other's head. If one is not able to be direct about how one is feeling and why, then the other cannot possibly know. Also, one can assume the other is merely going through the motions for all the wrong reasons, but if one makes such assumptions -- and never verifies if they are true -- then how can anything ever possibly improve?

It sounds like some of what you wish he would do sexually doesn't come naturally, but when lead him he will try to please you. I sympathize if you wish it came more naturally for him. At the same time, I wonder if next time he is stimulating you orally, maybe it would be a nicer experience for you if you were open to the possibility that despite it does not come naturally to him he is doing it because he loves you dearly and wants to give you pleasure. It may not be all that you want (and wanting more isn't wrong), but it might still be a loving and connection-building act from his heart to yours, if you let it.


----------



## jdd (Aug 30, 2013)

*Re: Re: Tales of the non-orgasmic, a Miss Scarlett update.*



MissScarlett said:


> Its not that I am impossible to get off. I don't know how I compare to other women - I know some women have a lot less trouble - but I think my case is more a matter of putting the time in. We've brought a vibrator in and Ive don't it myself wig him - so he should know there are options.
> 
> I know part of the problem is me because I keep my disappointment inside and say nothing. Because I don't want him putting the time in because I made him feel bad or because I had to ask him to. I want him to care and to want to please me. Having to ask for it makes it below what I want.
> 
> ...


I totally get this. But please try to get over not wanting to ask and do ask him for exactly what you want when you want it. It is so much more honest and genuine and if you can allow yourself to be okay with asking to have your needs met, it can feel great. 

It can be such a relief for a man to just finally know what she wants. 

Brene Brown talks about asking for what you want in a video. I'll see if I can find that video.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the point MissScarlet is trying to make is that she has shared all of these things with her husband. He does know what she likes. She remains difficult to bring off because his approach to sex is NOT one of enjoying her body and sharing love but of tab A slot B, touch here for 10 min, then repeat.

If a husband after 18 years STILL doesn't put effort into sexually pleasing her, STILL doesn't seek out ways to please her, STILL doesn't ask his OWN damn questions... What's left?

He doesn't get it. Still he doesn't get it!!!! By not investing himself into seeking HER pleasure he is essentially saying it doesn't matter to him. And MissScarlett is left to feel her pleasure is unimportant, that she is ungrateful, because in all other respects he's a great guy, for being upset that he takes so little care for her pleasure!

So buy him the little toy into which he can insert his tab if that's all the effort he's willing to invest!


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

very unfortunate


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Wow...I only read a portion of this thread, but I can certainly relate with how you feel MissScarlet. My STBXW never showed passion either.
All I know is that love making isn't quite the same without the passion of your partner wanting and willing to ensure you are experiencing extreme pleasure.
I think that is key to truly enjoying sharing you body with them...knowing they are into you and have as much desire to see you satisfied as you do for them.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Things have gotten worse this weekend and Miss Scarlett is in a rage.

When we were kissing and hugging goodnight on Thursday I whispered to him - you are going to have to take care of me soon. I have not gotten off since halloween. He apologized and agreed - and then suggested he would.be available to take care of this 'next Friday' - as in the day after thanksgiving when our children will be gone over night. You know, as in 8 days after I said I had not gotten off since October.

So of course I'm never having sex with him again. I think you can all back me up on my resolve.

I go in between rage and sadness. I feel like everything ive tried to.do in the past few months has been for nothing. It hasn't mattered if ive said something or not. It hasn't mattered if ive made myself vulnerable or made myself dominating. Hasn't helped to be emotional or not. It all comes back to this same tired point. Its not important to him. 

And like so many here I'm stuck between two ****ty options. I can bend my brain into making myself believe this is okay or I can divorce him. I don't want either of those things. I just want it to be important to him. Why cant he understand this.

Tonight I'm going to a concert with some friends and in a limo and am going to have a really good time and then tomorrow he will leave again and I'm glad that i will have some time to think things over more. 

Miss Scarlett is likely being a little overly dramatic.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Things have gotten worse this weekend and Miss Scarlett is in a rage.
> 
> When we were kissing and hugging goodnight on Thursday I whispered to him - you are going to have to take care of me soon. I have not gotten off since halloween. He apologized and agreed - and then suggested he would.be available to take care of this 'next Friday' - as in the day after thanksgiving when our children will be gone over night. You know, as in 8 days after I said I had not gotten off since October.
> 
> ...


I do not blame you a bit, I wish I had an answer for you, best to your dream


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Things have gotten worse this weekend and Miss Scarlett is in a rage.
> 
> When we were kissing and hugging goodnight on Thursday I whispered to him - you are going to have to take care of me soon. I have not gotten off since halloween. He apologized and agreed - and then suggested he would.be available to take care of this 'next Friday' - as in the day after thanksgiving when our children will be gone over night. You know, as in 8 days after I said I had not gotten off since October.
> 
> ...


 I sense a storm brewing... I feel an epiphany coming on... I see a cleansing due to the after effects of severe weather...

Stop minimizing your upset. Sometime that Apple cart NEEDS to be upturned so the rotten moldering apples get tossed and fresh new apples get stacked.

For the third time... Buy him the toy, throw a hissy fit, and make yourself HEARD! Roar girl Roar!


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Anon Pink is right...let it be known. Those frustrations shouldn't be kept silent.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

rush said:


> I do not blame you a bit, I wish I had an answer for you, best to your dream


Miss Scarlet, 

Between your last post and Anon Pink's summation which I am assuming is about right, the situation you are in is worse than I knew. I am very sorry.

My wife's disinterest in my needs has gotten so extreme and been the "normal" for so long now, it is hard to imagine I deserve any better than the handful of crumbs I am begrudged a year. It is hard to imagine relationships exist where one partner is attentive to the other's needs, and the other is attentive to the one partner's needs. Literally hard to imagine. (how f'd up is that!?). I actually asked my therapist a few days ago if that ever happens, or if things are always one sided. I honestly didn't know, so I asked. She said the mutually loving and attentive thing does actually happen. I want to believe it, as I am so tired of the one-sided thing hurting so much. But, I must confess, I don't see it happening with my wife and I.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Since I have read every single post MissScarlett has made since she fist came here I have to comment on this, in her defense.



pplwatching said:


> I have been thinking about this thread since I first read it, but haven't really been able to come up with any useful suggestions. I have to admit that I haven't read all of the posts in great detail, however it does seem to me that in some ways you are so close to the trees that you can't see the forest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bolded part, was the only part I agreed with. 

How do you take a man who is otherwise happy with sex and make him want to rock your world? How do you get a man to invest himself into finding ways to rock your world and to put forth that effort each time he wants to have sex?

How does any man pencil in a sex date, one week hence, after being told it's been almost a month since he's giving his wife an orgasm, even though he has not had to go without once!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Apparently so.


----------



## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Miss Scarlett expressed her frustration that instead of responding in the way that she had wanted, which would be to take his responsibility to her seriously, he went the opposite direction. I believe that a possible reason is that he was put on the defensive. While he did need to hear that she wanted sexual satisfaction, perhaps being told that he is a failure is not the most productive way to go about it.

I suggested that one alternative way to communicate her needs in a way that yeilds long term positive results would be to focus instead on fostering more intimacy and sexual communication outside of the bedroom. Build up a sense of anticipation and tension, and then encourage him rather than belittle his ability to give her an orgasm.

In my humble opinion the first step to clearing this logjam is to find a way to communicate that encourages investment by both partners. To do that it would seem to be necessary to avoid making placing blame the first priority. I believe that forgiveness is a cornerstone of marriage. It is often difficult to work together as a team towards a solution when we're harboring resentment, because the way we communicate is influenced by our hurts. 

I dont' believe that she meant to attack her husband, however we're rarely in control of the way that someone will "hear" what we say. I am only suggesting that different word choices might yeild different results.

As I said, I don't have any concrete solutions. It's clear that you don't agree that communication has seriously broken down in their marriage, but that's the way that I see it.


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

MissScarlett, this is most unfortunate, as there are plenty of men out there willing to fulfill your every want for pleasure. I understand your complex situation of loving him in every other aspect, but it does boil down to his lack of concern and caring about you and your wants/needs and desires. I can so relate.
I can certainly tell you that you will remain unhappy for the rest of your life if you don't get this through his thick skull.
You should not have to do without this desire from him. He is completely selfish and you should demand this...give him the 180 and see how he likes it.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

He wanted to talk when I got home last night. He said he feels defeted right now and that he feels I keep adding more to the sexual list and he feels he never has the adequate time or mindset to deal with this. When he tries during the day (sometimes he is in town while the kids are at school) it doesn't work and I have told him its difficult for me to switch gears like that so quickly. When he tries other times it never goes well unless I'm calling the shots. He feels this is something he cant do, that he cannot meet my needs.

This conversation was frightening to.me because.it felt like the end of the road. Also it twists my heart to hear him sounding so defeted. To him all the thoughts he expressed were real to him. From my side its different of course - but I could see how he is interpreting the situation in that way since we have always seen sex differently from the other.

I don't know what to do now. I feel like I need to just back off for a while. Im now in a situation where every time we have sex its an excersise in defeat for him and disappointment for me. So not what I had in mind!

I feel there is a lot more talking that needs to go on. A lot. He just had to leave though and I wont see him till Wednesday.


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

pplwatching said:


> Miss Scarlett expressed her frustration that instead of responding in the way that she had wanted, which would be to take his responsibility to her seriously, he went the opposite direction. I believe that a possible reason is that he was put on the defensive. While he did need to hear that she wanted sexual satisfaction, perhaps being told that he is a failure is not the most productive way to go about it.
> 
> I suggested that one alternative way to communicate her needs in a way that yeilds long term positive results would be to focus instead on fostering more intimacy and sexual communication outside of the bedroom. Build up a sense of anticipation and tension, and then encourage him rather than belittle his ability to give her an orgasm.
> 
> ...


While I agree with you to a degree...tiptoeing around the issue and trying other measures to coax him into this doesn't quite seem plausible when he doesn't seem to take her concerns seriously to begin with.

If he's getting defensive about her request to be pleasured, he needs to take a step back and realize what it is he is and isn't doing in the bedroom to contribute towards her satisfactions.
Maybe I'm different, but if I was told that my SO wasn't O'ing and wanted to get there, my first response would be, "What is it you'd like me to do different, and I'm there, baby? Is there a certain technique you'd like me to try that you think would help?"
His responses have been lame and avoiding and just inexcusable.

The biggest problem she has, which is one of the biggest reasons I left my STBXW is that there is no personal interest on their part to see that the desires are even met. It's a lack of feeling that they have interest in seeing us brought to pleasure.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

A few people have mentioned fostering a sense of intimacy and Faithful also recommended a book that I am reading on this subject. I realize that *I* am the one who needs the long lead in and the building desire. That is what I need and want. He doesn't need this and in fact I don't know that it crosses his mind. 

I just don't know what to do now. I cant get off with him unless conditions are right and these conditions are tearing him down, not making him more confident. If I do things his way I'm not going to be getting off. Still bad for him. 

It feels lose /lose right now.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Poopy. 

I'm so sorry to hear all this. I really have no advice for you. When my husband gets upset like that, I do what you do. Lay low for a while. But really I'm not sure that is the best thing to do. But I struggle with it too.

I also go between rage and sadness. We are in almost the same spot as you. I just want to be intimate with him, but instead of my attempts bringing us closer it drives a wedge in between us. 

We just can't win.  We just want what most people have, a satisfying sex life. 

Life sucks sometimes.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

It really is a vicious cycle too.

With me I can't O if I don't feel desired, or if I feel like a bother.

So I think about it, then I can't O, so then I feel like a bother and that I'm boring him, and wasting his time.

Then the next time I think about how I'm a bother, then I can't O... and on and on.

The last 3 times we've had sex I couldn't O because I felt like a bother, then of course he isn't aroused and we can barely finish him. Which just feeds the fire for next time, with feelings or being undesired. Right now I wonder how we were ever get back on track. 

People say women are hard to figure out... they apparently haven't met our husbands.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You two are Charles and Jane Bingley from pride and prejudice.

He feels like he can't meet your needs? That suggests he doesn't understand them and I don't think at this point he is trying to understand them. His defenses went up and haven't come down.

You both have spent your lives avoiding the very kinds of intimacy necessary to meet those needs. It's only been a few months of this new honest communication on your part and these things do take time, but that doesn't mean you stop trying, or you stop expecting him to get with the program.

Maybe he needs IC, a safe place where he can discuss his fears and learn to cope with the new honest wife who won't put aside her needs?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think it might seem like most people have satisfying sex lives - but I don't know that its a fact. I think sexual problems are probably vey high on the list of marital issues.

That's not to say we don't deserve to have the sex lives of our dreams of course! Its just unlikely we will have it with the men we want to have it with.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Thanks for the nudge, anon. Its easy to just want to go back to the way it was because right this second it doesn't feel like ive accomplished anything.

I'm going to take the time he is gone to collect my thoughts and then we are going to have a big long talk later this week.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I know part of the problem is me because I keep my disappointment inside and say nothing. Because I don't want him putting the time in because I made him feel bad or because I had to ask him to. I want him to care and to want to please me. Having to ask for it makes it below what I want.


I am sorry with what you are going through, but I have to say you have two issues here that you need to figure out.

First, keeping your disappointment inside is not different that the faking you did before. You are not being honest with him. It did not work last time, so why do you think it will work again.

Second, you need to think about what you are asking for from him. Based on your posts, it seems that you need and want him to love the actual activity. Doing it for you because he loves you are not enough. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to figure out what *you* need. I knew someone in college who dated an artist. She loved art and in the end, needed someone who loved it like she did. He did not, though was willing to learn about it because it mattered to her. But she needed more and realized that it was unfair to them, because he was not capable of giving her what she needed.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Thanks for the nudge, anon. Its easy to just want to go back to the way it was because right this second it doesn't feel like ive accomplished anything.
> 
> I'm going to take the time he is gone to collect my thoughts and then we are going to have a big long talk later this week.


See what you can do to break it down into some smaller talks.

Because I have to say that, as a guy, few things are worse for getting me to bring down my walls and defensiveness and getting me to listen than a "big long talk" that focuses on my failures as a man and a husband.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I just don't know what to do now. I cant get off with him unless conditions are right and these conditions are tearing him down, not making him more confident. If I do things his way I'm not going to be getting off. Still bad for him.


I'll want a personal message from you if you ever find the answer to this dilemma. 

That is the crux of the incompatible in the bedroom problem. People who love each other don't want to tear down their spouse for their own enjoyment, and sometimes, it's not clear that there is any alternative. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> He wanted to talk when I got home last night. *He said he feels defeted right now and that he feels I keep adding more to the sexual list and he feels he never has the adequate time or mindset to deal with this.* When he tries during the day (sometimes he is in town while the kids are at school) it doesn't work and I have told him its difficult for me to switch gears like that so quickly. When he tries other times it never goes well unless I'm calling the shots. He feels this is something he cant do, that he cannot meet my needs.


Although he may be trying, something tells me he came up with this as a way to get you to back off from even asking for what it is you seek.
One can only feel defeated if they are giving up. My father always taught me the old saying of, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!"
I know I would certainly look at this to be a challenge, and one I would eagerly work at accomplishing. To me, adding to the sexual list would just be more to strive for...something to cross off of a sort of bucket list. Give me a Mt. Everest to climb and I'll try like crazy to get there. If nothing else, it would certainly be a learning experience and I would think be a generator of extreme pleasure to boot.
By default, I have the desire to ensure my SO is receiving pleasure. I couldn't be in a sexual relationship and just worry about my own O. In fact, as of recent, due to the newness of my relationship, I am actually having some performance anxiety issues, but I am damned sure to see that she is satisfied. I find I have to be completely relaxed and stress free to get my O. 
I don't know how you can convince him not to feel defeated and not give up. 
I think he needs to do some searching on what it means to desire you...what it is he needs to do so you feel desired. 
I think if you felt that from him that you would be more relaxed and naturally get your O.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Right now I just feel bad that he feels so bad. 

I really believed I could "wake him up" from the monotomous sex routine and introduce him to the pleasures of wild passionate sex. However it seems Ive just overwhelmed him with a situation he doesn't feel capable of.

The long talk I want to have with him is more of a - how can we find a way to work this out - kind of thing. Can this be worked out. Certainly there is some way to split the difference.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> The long talk I want to have with him is more of a - how can we find a way to work this out - kind of thing. Can this be worked out. Certainly there is some way to split the difference.


I understand that is what you intend to deliver. I would note that he may not be coming from that place, so will not receive it in this way. If true, a long talk will not help things.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Indy - I would approach it the same way as you. I want to say from day 1 I would have been like - we are going upstairs right now and you are going to tell me exactly what you need.

I think I.would be that way. But then again - everyone on this board is in different situations but the one thing we all have in common is that sex is very important to us. Its important to me and.I cant fathom how another person couldn't hold it in the same importance that I do.

I'm hoping I can get a decent conversation with him because its been difficult to get much information out of him on this journey.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I think I.would be that way. But then again - everyone on this board is in different situations but the one thing we all have in common is that sex is very important to us. Its important to me and.I cant fathom how another person couldn't hold it in the same importance that I do.


You can't? You need only look at your our actions in the past to see that is not true.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Could you elaborate on that?


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Could you elaborate on that?


From your first post:



> A brief summary - married 18 years, no orgasms. The first 8 years my husband seemed to not notice. He didn't ask. It never seemed like the right time to state the obvious. After the first 8 years I started faking as we had just passed a dip in the marriage and I was celebrating having made it through and my children were of such an age that I could have a life back again. Although I do know the faking was wrong and benefited me in no way - these are good years in my memories with lots of going out and drunken sex and feeling good about the shape I was in - despite not having orgasms I like sex, I did like sex then and indulged frequently.


For 18 years it was not *that *important to you. You clearly saw other things as being more important. So when you say "I cant fathom how another person couldn't hold it in the same importance that I do" you need only look back to your past self.

Now, you may be wondering why I raise this. It is so that you are honest and aware of what has happened and what is happening now. Sex is important to you now. Nothing wrong with that. But it was not as important in the past. It may not be as important to him. But if you start the conversation with an absolute statement like that, he may wonder how credible you are.


----------



## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

I think what MissScarlett is meaning is that while she allowed it to not be as important as it is now due to certain circumstances in her marriage, now that she has a new found appreciation and yearning for it, she could never go back to how it was before and feel any sense of satisfaction maintaining that level any longer. Just maintaining things as they have been in the past is no longer acceptable. She wants what is duly deserved. Her husband needs to wake up to this appreciation for it as well!

I wonder how he would feel about sex if he had gone all those years without achieving an O, yet she got one most every time?


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

IndyTMI said:


> I think what MissScarlett is meaning is that while she allowed it to not be as important as it is now due to certain circumstances in her marriage, now that she has a new found appreciation and yearning for it, she could never go back to how it was before and feel any sense of satisfaction maintaining that level any longer. Just maintaining things as they have been in the past is no longer acceptable. She wants what is duly deserved. Her husband needs to wake up to this appreciation for it as well!


Sure, that is completely reasonable. But that is not what she posted. What she posted was "I cant fathom how another person couldn't hold [sex] in the same importance that I do." If she says stuff like that to her husband while having that conversation, I think it will hurt her point.



> I wonder how he would feel about sex if he had gone all those years without achieving an O, yet she got one most every time?


I guess that she can go this way as well. Lay all the blame on him and don't consider how her word choices will help her achieve her goals. Perhaps that is the better way to go.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Indy and TAG you both make excellent points. So what word choices do you suggest?


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

MS, I don't know if your husband has seen a therapist, but I think he may need some intensive IC/IST to work through his issues.

If I put myself in his place, I would have a lot of baggage to unpack around the first 18 years when the faking made him feel like he was doing it for you, and recently you told him it really wasn't. I know I would feel some sense of failure and probably betrayal as well.

It doesn't excuse his seeming lack of interest in pleasing you sexually, but it might explain some of it.

I know you are very frustrated, but there have been some signs of progress, even though it isn't enough for you right now.

As someone in his 50's, I know I feel like my sexual abilities have a definite "Use by/Sell by" date (don't know when that is, but I'm a lot closer to it than I used to be), and life is too short to not have the sex life I want or feel like I deserve. Or at least something pretty close to what I want (with the idea that I can't have EVERYTHING I want sexually).

I suppose the final judgment is whether or not you can live with the sex life you have now, or with some incrementally improved version of it. If not, you seem to have some big decisions ahead of you. Based on your posts, I don't see your H making any dramatic changes in his sexual patterns, but I have seen some couples who have turned it completely around, it can be done. 

It really saddens me to read your posts, you seem like a truly good person who isn't really asking for that much. Good luck!


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Indy and TAG you both make excellent points. So what word choices do you suggest?


I actually think their discussion where he told her his fears and concerns was productive. So I would recommend the following:

1. Tell him that things in her life have changed. Sex with him is now very important and she needs to be able to orgasm with him. To that end, she wants to work with him to achieve that.

2. Ask him to allow you some follow up questions to what he talked about the last time. Questions that clarify and give her understanding about what he is feeling. Don't argue, or try to justify or tell him he is wrong. Rather, listen to what he is saying and try to understand where he currently is in the process. One question you need to ask is how important is sex to him.

3. Give him the opportunity to do the same with you. Perhaps take a break and tell him you will give him a chance to think and then ask any questions he has for you. Then try and answer as best you can.

Emphasize in 2 and 3 that it is about listening to the other person. So be clear that when you ask him questions, you will listen, and when he asks questions, you need him to listen and not get defensive.

4. Ask him is this something he wants to work on.

I do think that MissScarlett still needs to figure out what she needs from him and what is an acceptable outcome (see my earlier post with the story about the artist). Because I suspect that what she needs from him is affecting the sex.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Tall Average Guy and IndyTMI - I agree with both of your points, although they differ somewhat. I am not trying to excuse any of my poor behavior, either. I know I'm culpable in this. 

In any of my conversations with him I have tried vey hard to be encouraging and take as much blame as Ive given. A couple of months ago things seemed to be going very well and we were having a decent amount of success and mybody felt very sensitive to him. Then I started getting anxious and he stopped giving oral and now we're back to where we started - except this time both of us are unhappy instead of just me.

The thought of losing him is really making me feel sad and scared today. The thought of never having sex like I would like to have sex is depressing. And then if I caused him to lose his confidence and nothing changed in the end... That's pretty awful.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I actually think their discussion where he told her his fears and concerns was productive. So I would recommend the following:
> 
> 1. Tell him that things in her life have changed. Sex with him is now very important and she needs to be able to orgasm with him. To that end, she wants to work with him to achieve that.
> 
> ...


This sound like a plan for a reasonable discussion. I am glad we will have some days after thanksgiving without the children here so we can hopefully talk. Despite what I say on this board I do try not to blame or make him feel worse than he feels already.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

It is not uncommon for a couple to have sex but one partner not achieve orgasm. My understanding is -- from what I have read -- that women more frequently have difficulty more so than men. (I'm male, but will confess I'm starting to have difficulty myself. I also could have that statistics all wrong.). I hope he comes to understand that if he doesn't already, especially if he has been feeling like a failure.

Anxiety -- yours, his -- has to be a big O killer. I fear it can also start a self-perpetuating downward spiral.

TAM can be helpful, and the posts I have been reading on your thread are top notch. But, I wonder if a good sex therapist could provide the specialized knowledge (assigning exercises in intimacy with ever increasing non-orgasmic but attainable goals, for instance) to slowly but surely reverse this downward spiral.

Also, would it help you if you both agreed that for the time being he'd stimulate you for awhile but then you'd take control if necessary to reach release? I ask because there was a time when I felt better just taking care of myself, with her consent, just feeling her arm brushed up against mine while she fell asleep, as opposed to being in the other room, or having no release at all. (The idea lost it appeal for other reasons, but at the time it felt helpful.)

Just seems to me like you need a low-anxiety respectful blameless creative imaginative sometimes-boundary-pushing plan for building a partnership in bed. I think coming up with that without professional help would be so potentially difficult -- and the cost of failure so very very high -- that it would make sense to find the best possible help before anxieties and hurts escalate more.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Had an opportunity to talk. I don't think it went well. I let him do most of the talking and was overly cautious in my choice of words. I did want to hear what he had to say - especially if he was angry, etc, as he has said very little through this whole ordeal.

Basically his side of things boiled down to excuses. Some I bought - that he is still dealing with the fact he was in the dark for so many years. Some pissed me off - he claimed my complaining about my weight and over 40 metabolism has resulted in less desire on his part. He blamed himself, that he is not happy with his own weight and his health is suffering.

In short like many others here - a lot of excuses and not so much exposing the true issues. A lot of platitudes and its not you its me - no wait - it actually is you. 

My next two weeks are going to be very stressful and we also have a child that is really struggling acedemically. I am feeling like I need to let this situation sit for the month of December and focus my mental energy elsewhere. I fear this may end our marriage and I also feel we should likely look into counseling at this point. However I have no idea how H would feel about this. We always had agreed that we would go to counseling if needed - its just getting both people to agree its time. I don't think he is seeing it that way yet.

But anyway - I'm going to cool it till January. What I'm doing is not working. I'm nowhere near ready to pull a divorce card and I'm weary of putting so. much mental energy into this problem.

To illustrate how messed up this situation has gotten - we've had 3 days to ourselves with kids at grandmas. Sex one time, the discussion last night and today doing housework for a party we are having tonight. He has literally been whistling with happiness getting ready for all our friends to come over in a few hours and I'm teary eyed wondering if we will even be together for the holidays next year. 

The both of us are just not getting it.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

sad situation ,,,,,counseling would be the best direction


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It doesn't have to be "the end of days" before you ask him to join you in counseling. I wish more people and couples would just find experts to help them instead of stubbornly believing that they "don't need that kind of help". This means you, too, Miss Scarlet. 

You love your husband and you care about your marriage. It needs to go to a doctor. Would you refuse to take either yourself or your husband to a doctor if you were injured? Of course not!

Your marriage has sustained an injury.

You need to get medical attention for it! OK, not actually medical attention but expert attention.

I would skip all the middle men and just find a good board certified Sex Therapist for you both together and for you both individually.

Why wait until it is almost too late and there is more hurt feelings?


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> ...and I'm teary eyed wondering if we will even be together for the holidays next year.


Been there. Was even convinced last holiday season that it was the very last time we'd all be together as a family. Convinced. But, this year, things are much more bearable, and occasionally looking up.

Emphasize the "wondering if" part to yourself. You really don't know what is going to happen between now and then, do you?

From where I sit, the positive thing is you are getting to the point something is going to ** have ** to change, and you're smart enough and courageous enough from the sounds of it to do whatever is possible to make it change for the better. You don't know what exactly "change" or "change for the better" means just yet. But, perhaps you can agree in principle with yourself that nothing is ever going to be the same.

Not sure if it helps to say this, but I started to feel hope for myself once I started believing I was not going to accept living like I had for another ten or twenty years. That, ideally she would change with me, but even if she didn't I wasn't going to sit idly and let that be my fate.

Take care of yourself.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Honestly right now I feel like he doesn't care a bit and this is making me angry and making me feel like I should not care either. 

Party went well and I'm considering sleeping on the couch because I'm so mad. 

Doesn't want to have sex with me because I complain that I haven't been able to lose weight since I turned 40 - indeed! 

I'm just pissed off. Maybe a little drunk. Just a tad. 

If all he wants is no effort and no complaints in the bedroom why go through the trouble of counseling. I honestly think he believes no other man in the world has to go to such trouble and that women magically get off with no effort whatsoever.

MissScarlett needs a breathalyzer on her computer.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I apologize for being immature and posting while drunk. 

Not to keep drawing this thread out but H and I did have a better talk this morning. I acknowledged that he has not changed, it is me that changed this year. I know this has been a lot for him to take on. While this all started out about the O it has uncovered larger issues. 

In short it was a better talk than the other day. He did agree that we should likely look into MC at the beginning of the year. He said again that he believes is lower interest in sex this year is because of his own health and improvements he needs to make there. He doesn't feel good about himself and with this other going on he feels he lacks confidence in the bedroom and has started avoiding intimacy. This is what he claims is happening on his side. 

So anyway. That's where it is today. I'm over my rage. Still am unsure how things will progress, of course, over time. Nothing is solved but it seems back on a more even keel for the moment.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett...that is HUGE progress. For him to admit he is avoiding intimacy is exactly what had to happen. Not that it will now magically change everything, but until he admitted that to himself or you, things could not progress at all and everything was so confusing for you.

This is the beginning of the real intimacy and communication that has to happen to fix this problem.

Take him up on counseling and start looking for a ST now. Don't bother with MC, because those other problems can be covered in ST, whereas straight up sexual issues will only barely be covered in MC.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I apologize for being immature and posting while drunk.


No apology necessary!

This is your thread. Don't censor yourself. No one here wants you to.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Ah MissScarlett, your drunk posting is adorable!

I echo Faithful wife's advice. Find a sex therapist and make the appointment. If you want to wait till after the holidays, that's fine, but get on the phone now to find one and get some time booked.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Not to keep drawing this thread out but H and I did have a better talk this morning. I acknowledged that he has not changed, it is me that changed this year. I know this has been a lot for him to take on. While this all started out about the O it has uncovered larger issues.
> 
> In short it was a better talk than the other day. He did agree that we should likely look into MC at the beginning of the year. He said again that he believes is lower interest in sex this year is because of his own health and improvements he needs to make there. He doesn't feel good about himself and with this other going on he feels he lacks confidence in the bedroom and has started avoiding intimacy. This is what he claims is happening on his side.
> 
> So anyway. That's where it is today. I'm over my rage. Still am unsure how things will progress, of course, over time. Nothing is solved but it seems back on a more even keel for the moment.


I would suggest that you had a great talk initially. I would also gently suggest that you need to work on your listening and defensiveness.

In the first talk, he admitted that he had issues with himself, his weight and his health. But note that you ignored that and went right to the excuses where he put the blame on you. That was crap and you were right to recognize it as such. But focusing on that (and ignoring the other issues) did not help you. You got defensive right away and almost missed an opportunity.

Beyond joint counseling, I think individual counseling may help him as well. Let him know that you heard him and are working on your side of the street, but that he needs to work on his. Get his commitment and make clear that you need action on his part.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I think you could both benefit from MC/ST, but it seems like the larger issue here is one of overall health. He has admitted to gaining weight and not being as attractive and healthy as he would like to be, and you mentioned some other frustrations about your weight as well.

I always tend to equate one's weight within a marriage as a barometer of the health of the relationship. I strive to keep my weight in a healthy range (BMI less than 25), and so does my wife. We try to stay healthy and fit for each other because of our teenage son, and because we want to be active and healthy as we age.

Last year, we were both at a high water mark with weight and health. Walking 2 miles every day, and going to the gym together 3x per week. We were both at an ideal weight (me; 6'4" and 200#, her at 5'1" and 110# pounds), and we were both toned. Our sex life was at an all-time high as well.

I seriously injured my knee playing sports over the summer. We stopped our walks for a while, and traded trips to the gym together for my rehab sessions. I gained 7 or 8 pounds and she gained 5 pounds. While that may seem trivial, I noticed my self-confidence and sex drive dip, and so has she. It's amazing how such a small weight gain can have such an impact.

We are going to re-focus on walking and working out this winter. I think it will make us both feel better about ourselves and boost our sex drives and confidence in the bedroom.

I would advise that you seek counseling, work on your health, and continue the open communication. I think in a relatively short timeframe, your issues will begin to resolve themselves.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

How is is going girl? Any progress? Just thinking of you.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

me too, any good news?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

No news really. I am in the middle of a very high stress 3 weeks. I have a temporary work assignment till Jan 1 and am also performing nightly in a play right now. 

I am still thinking a lot about this matter but just do not have time or energy to deal with H more than I have to. I have been on a blow job strike for about 2 months and not approaching him for sex at all.

I don't plan to keep acting this childish but, as I said, I am st my emotional limit right now.

The good news is that I'm kicking ass on my work assignment and the play turned out lovely. Just need to hold it together for another week or so.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't think it's childish. I did the same thing for a while. I'd give BJ, but not to completion. I simply don't understand why some men have to be told to return the favor... Makes no sense. Even after they've been told...to be reminded...screw that sister!


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

agreed....


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

There is more at play as well. He has cited his weight and feelings about himself as a major player in this sexual situation. (He is not grossly overweight but needs to lose about 20 pounds for this situation to remedy itself I think.) 

He went in to have his shoulder looked at last week and the doctor said his blood pressure was very high. He has been on blood pressure meds and cholesterol meds for a few years now. 

He continues to resist making changes in his lifestyle and, not only is this a detriment to our sex life but it's also endangering his life. Not only is he depriving me of sex and intimacy but also is inching towards making me a widow as well. 

****'s about to get real in 2014.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I don't think it's childish. I did the same thing for a while. I'd give BJ, but not to completion. *I simply don't understand why some men have to be told to return the favor*... Makes no sense. Even after they've been told...to be reminded...screw that sister!


Same reason some women don't get that concept.


----------



## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> There is more at play as well. He has cited his weight and feelings about himself as a major player in this sexual situation. (He is not grossly overweight but needs to lose about 20 pounds for this situation to remedy itself I think.)
> 
> He went in to have his shoulder looked at last week and the doctor said his blood pressure was very high. He has been on blood pressure meds and cholesterol meds for a few years now.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the play doing well. My apologies of not knowing your whole story but in regards of his feelings with the weight, has he made any changes in his diet or excercise for this matter? I dealt with this as well, where i thought one of the resaons i was in my sex rut with my wife was me gaining wieght. I put in and lost the 25lbs needed and really helped me. On the other hand if not and all you hear is the complaing than i feel your frustration. During my time of weight gain my wife also added weight. I didnt care from my end, but to hear the constant complaing from her while laying on the couch all hours and reading etc...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Same reason some women don't get that concept.


True. But MOSTLY, when a man ejaculates, he's done. When most women climax, she can go again and again and again. And again!

When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?

Now ask how many women have given completed BJs and been left high and dry? I'm not suggesting you do it, I am suggesting that this is much more frequent in men than it is in women.

My H used to do that to me all the time. And yet has never gone without when he takes care of me. I just don't get that?

I've got my period this week and twice I've taken care of H without even an offer of a friggin back scratch in return! He just assumes that since I offer it, I must not be terribly interested in getting it since I'm bleeding. I'm not upset because he has been working his ass off this week and is so stressed out I want to take care of him. It just would be nice...you know....? If I really wanted sex during my period he'd give it to me. But I know he's not terribly enthused about it so I put it off unless the urge is too strong to ignore.


----------



## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> True. But MOSTLY, when a man ejaculates, he's done. When most women climax, she can go again and again and again. And again!
> 
> When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?
> 
> ...


You are a good egg, twice on your period, Mr. Pink is a lucky man!!! I agree with you and dont get that lack of an offer to give back. I used to be in that boat. When i would get up in the morning for work if the wife wsa stirring around in bed, i would go down on her before i had to get ready. I would sometimes get the "i am now exhausted thanks, i will take care of you tonight". I have a nice stack of some uncashed rain checks in my drawyer.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> You are a good egg, twice on your period, Mr. Pink is a lucky man!!! I agree with you and dont get that lack of an offer to give back. I used to be in that boat. When i would get up in the morning for work if the wife wsa stirring around in bed, i would go down on her before i had to get ready. I would sometimes get the "i am now exhausted thanks, i will take care of you tonight". I have a nice stack of some uncashed rain checks in my drawyer.


Nurturers Unite! Just because we love to take care of you doesn't mean we don't also want to be taken care of!!!!!

Yes, I tell him frequently what an awesome wife he has. He left a love note today. Thanks for loving me and taking such good care of me. My first rain check!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> True. But MOSTLY, when a man ejaculates, he's done. When most women climax, she can go again and again and again. And again!
> 
> *When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?*
> Now ask how many women have given completed BJs and been left high and dry? I'm not suggesting you do it, I am suggesting that this is much more frequent in men than it is in women.
> ...


Mrs Fozzy is in the same boat as Miss Scarlett I'm afraid. It's not for lack of me trying, she normally just wants it over after a while.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

My H has really increased his activity level this past year, he recently ran a half marathon - but his diet is awful and he makes a lot of excuses and no changes. 

I don't care about his weight - he doesn't look that different to me - but I'm concerned for his health. Also that he cites the way he feels about himself as the reason he is unenthused in the sex department and would rather just go to bed - so it's doubly on my nerves. 

Fozzy does deserve a BJ from his wife - just saying. He's put in a lot of effort in that department.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I can count on two hands the number of times my wife has let me take care of her needs (orally, manually, or with a toy) without her wanting it to progress to PIV. I'm perfectly happy to give her orgasms without any expectation of anything more, but she feels a little awkward about it (like the female poster who recently said that she felt "detached" from her H while he was going down on her).

On the flip side, she has given me oral countless times to completion, with the understanding that she didn't want it to go any further than that. I think she enjoys giving me head because she knows I like it so much, and it actually is a turn-on for her. I just wish that she would let me just take care of her more often than she does.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I believe it was the last time he gave me oral - he did just want to get me off and asked nothing in return. 

It does feel strange and I pressed him for PIV because I couldn't deal with him doing that - even though I have done it many, many times for him. 

The whole situation is very confusing. My strike is more over the fact that he won't talk to me about it at all. If he would just say SOMETHING. Even telling me I suck in bed would be better than silence. 

He doesn't seem to understand that in all the silence over the past 18 years I have filled it in with "he doesn't want me" "he's just humoring me" "he doesn't care about what I want." 

Why won't he talk about sex - I don't get it. It's infuriating. And it's difficult to sit there and make myself tell him what is going on inside my head and have him respond with changing the subject. 

(Miss Scarlett sighs and leans on hand with fake lashes and bouffant hair from the theater. Miss Scarlett has knocked back some whiskey after her acting debut at age 44.)


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I should add - the time I'm speaking of was several months ago. There was a window of opportunity a few months back where it seemed like everything was going to magically be better.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I should add - the time I'm speaking of was several months ago. There was a window of opportunity a few months back where it seemed like everything was going to magically be better.


Two steps forward....

1. You came clean about lack of orgasms.
2. Open dialogue based on honesty began

One step backward...

1. He needs time to process and readjust to the new truth.

You are ready to take more steps but he is dragging his feet. This is where you stick to your goal, and keep that vision in your mind. The goal being an atmosphere of honesty and emotional intimacy where real connection can take place. Because you have this vision of what you want, you WILL get there!

Have you told him how his silence and unasked questions feels to you? He may be thinking all the pressure is on him to fix this when actually the pressure is just to take the risk of asking and searching with you.

Back in sept I bought my H an erotic card game. It had oral sex techniques on each card. We looked through it and I had suggested we use the cards in various ways, to ask for what we wanted, or to pick a card and get a trick.

Before he left for business travel, I had him pick two cards. One for him and one for me. He took both cards with him while gone. Anyway, the card for me included a technique he hadn't done before. He studied it while gone and when he did it, woah, I was blown away. Although what he did was something I had suggested, for some reason he didn't get the right image from my words but got the right image from the words on the card.

I guess seeing this new to him technique on the card was less threatening? This is not what a purchased but close enough.

Amazon.com: Iou Oral Sex: Health & Personal Care


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> True. But MOSTLY, when a man ejaculates, he's done. When most women climax, she can go again and again and again. And again!
> 
> When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?
> 
> ...


not all women can climax again and again and again, some women can't climax at all even on their own and some woman become too sensitive to continue. and some don't care for multiples.


and I know some men who would gladly please their wife oraly even if they were not in the mood. including me and I have !

and there are plenty of women who never give oral even thought the wife never reciprocates.


and by the way with the right attitude and loving enthuastic touch I can come again and again but not again after that LOL.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> not all women can climax again and again and again, some women can't climax at all even on their own and some woman become too sensitive to continue. and some don't care for multiples.
> 
> 
> and I know some men who would gladly please their wife oraly even if they were not in the mood. including me and I have !
> ...


Good thing I didn't use the term "all."

Glad you can reload so quickly. My H is 99% one and done and always has been.  

Oooh the fun we could have if he could reload within 12 hours


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

My wife does not talk about sex either or generally anything besides work.

When I was young I used to be able to have sex for four hours straight and have 7 orgasms but now I need a few hours to recharge . My wife though is one and done (well two if you count foreplay) and then she wants to sleep but I am never sleepy after sex.

"When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?"

A couple of months ago. -Evenings are harder for me to finish these days and if I don't get it done PiV I am usually out of luck. 

Anyway I agree, sex is always an interesting subject to me and could not understand why my wife does not want to talk about it. All I can think is that it is a defense against hearing something you do not want to hear. 

Early on I told my wife that she was not so good in bed and that took years for her to recover from -what a mistake. I did not think anything of it at the time other than not everyone is good at everything automatically but I guess her self esteem in that area was fragile. 

So I have to recommend not telling your spouse that they are not so great at sex even if it is true.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

There are three components of oral sex (when it is performed on me) that I generally insist on:

1.) I prefer that she be nude when she is going down on me. That's not always possible (like when we are outside the bedroom), but I am more quickly and easily aroused and I come faster this way.

2.) I really enjoy eye contact, and always have since I was a teenager. I had an older GF in HS who did this, and I just became conditioned to it. But I had to tell my wife about this, and how emotionally intimate it is for me when she looks at me during. At first she thought it was "porny", but I think I got into it before it became a mainstream porn move.

3.) I really like it when she reaches up and plays with my nipples.

Sometimes she will reach down and stimulate herself while giving me oral, that to me is a sure sign that she is getting aroused from giving me head.

Anyway, I had to verbally communicate my desires in advance to my wife in order for her to know what I really like. She has occasionally told me during sex what she would like me to do, but the most she will usually say is "what you are doing feels great" or "right there, that spot feels good". I wish she would tell me more about what she wants sexually when we are outside the bedroom when we aren't actually having sex.

Again, so much of this comes back to communication, doesn't it?


----------



## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?

Um last night. I ended up holding her till she went to sleep with my excitement rubbing against her leg. LOL


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Happyquest said:


> When's the last time you went down on your wife and when she climaxed, she patted you on the head and said, gee thanks honey that was awesome, then went to sleep leaving you high and dry?
> 
> Um last night. I ended up holding her till she went to sleep with my excitement rubbing against her leg. LOL


Damn! Lots of excellent men here at TAM!

I gotta get my husband on this forum!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> My wife does not talk about sex either or generally anything besides work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:banghead: OMG what possessed you to say something as incredibly hurtful as that? 

How long ago did this happen? I doubt very much this is something she will ever forget. Actually, sorry to beat a dead horse here, if you were dumb enough to say something as damaging as that to your wife, I doubt very much you have been able to counter her now firmly entrenched belief that she sucks in bed. This would take years of countering that very statement with enthusiastic words to the contrary!

:wtf:

And now you know why she doesn't like to talk about sensitive subjects with you.


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Oh that was 13 years ago or so, Yeah live and learn. No she did not like talking about sex before that either. And I can't say it was totally a waste because she at least has gradually improved. I wasn't mean about it or anything. Why do you require your husband to lie to you?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> Oh that was 13 years ago or so, Yeah live and learn. No she did not like talking about sex before that either. And I can't say it was totally a waste because she at least has gradually improved. I wasn't mean about it or anything. Why do you require your husband to lie to you?


Hmmm, I need to change your question a bit. I require my husband to speak to me in such a way that I either feel good about myself, or if feel good about changing myself. Therefore, the words he uses to speak of things that he wishes would improve, need to be chosen carefully.


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I suppose but it is easier said than done. Anyway you just saw Scarlet say that she would rather be told she was bad in bed than told nothing so perhaps you are overly sensitive. But like I said I would advise everyone against doing that.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Hmmm, I need to change your question a bit. I require my husband to speak to me in such a way that I either feel good about myself, or if feel good about changing myself. Therefore, the words he uses to speak of things that he wishes would improve, need to be chosen carefully.


Funny, because for me, little is more infuriating then when you alter/spin/massage the message into a form you think I will find more acceptable.

Should I ask a question, give me the straight, unvarnished truth thank you very much. Then I don't have to dredge through your (mis)apprehensions about how I might take the news.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Just for the record my H can be excellent in bed. Its just that 99.9% of the time he is phoning it in instead of being excellent. 

Its not a question of skill set so much as passion or what have you.

He COULD do it. But he doesn't. And I don't understand why. And he wont talk about it.


----------



## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Just for the record my H can be excellent in bed. Its just that 99.9% of the time he is phoning it in instead of being excellent.
> 
> Its not a question of skill set so much as passion or what have you.
> 
> He COULD do it. But he doesn't. And I don't understand why. And he wont talk about it.


Tell him to read this whole thread,

force him to


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Just for the record my H can be excellent in bed. Its just that 99.9% of the time he is phoning it in instead of being excellent.
> 
> Its not a question of skill set so much as passion or what have you.
> 
> He COULD do it. But he doesn't. And I don't understand why. And he wont talk about it.


That is EXACTLY like my husband. He can be excellent. He just doesn't.... Your right, it's not skill. It's passion.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> That is EXACTLY like my husband. He can be excellent. He just doesn't.... Your right, it's not skill. It's passion.


It seems to me that someone who has the skill to be good at something but doesn't exercise that skill must find the effort not worth the reward, for whatever reason. 

Is it lack of appreciation from you? The lost cost of opportunity to spend the time or effort elsewhere? The ability to get everything he wants sexually regardless of his work ethic?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> It seems to me that someone who has the skill to be good at something but doesn't exercise that skill must find the effort not worth the reward, for whatever reason.
> 
> Is it lack of appreciation from you? The lost cost of opportunity to spend the time or effort elsewhere? *The ability to get everything he wants sexually regardless of his work ethic?*


If, after reading several posts of either MissScarlett or TheCuriousWife, one can't equivocally conclude the correctest answer is the bolded part, well... I like you Cletus so I doubt you would conclude the first two either.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

:lol:

I don't know why but I literately laughed when the read the word *correctest.*

Anon Pink is right. Both of our husband's got what they wanted without putting in the work.

I think Miss Scarlet and I can both agree that things have changed recently. We have both put our foot's down, and it is no longer a case of them getting what they want without work. 

Now they just don't like the fact that we ruined the good thing (for them) they had going.

I can't speak for Miss Scarlet, but I've been doing pretty dang good about not allowing myself to be taken advantage of lately. I think she has too. But it's a work in progress.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Yeah, I have as well - and I wish that made everything better but it's an ongoing source of anger and sadness that this just doesn't occur to him naturally and has to be explained like to a child. 

We had it out last night for the billionth time about how often we are not having sex and he had mentioned that well, it just takes so much longer now - it just doesn't lend itself to several times per week anymore. 

I can assure you he nearly left on his business trip without testicles.

But yes, things are on an upswing for Curious and I, hoping it isn't short-lived.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Yeah, I have as well - and I wish that made everything better but it's an ongoing source of anger and sadness that this just doesn't occur to him naturally and has to be explained like to a child.
> 
> We had it out last night for the billionth time about how often we are not having sex and he had mentioned that well, it just takes so much longer now - it just doesn't lend itself to several times per week anymore.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Just because we aren't getting used anymore doesn't mean things are better. Now there is just hurt on both ends. I can totally relate to having to explain everything. 

My husband says the same thing. While he would be in the mood for a quickie or a blow job, "sex" just takes so much longer, so we don't do it as often.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Yeah, I have as well - and I wish that made everything better but it's an ongoing source of anger and sadness that this just doesn't occur to him naturally and has to be explained like to a child.
> 
> We had it out last night for the billionth time about how often we are not having sex and *he had mentioned that well, it just takes so much longer now - it just doesn't lend itself to several times per week anymore. *
> 
> ...


Not so HD drive now, is he? 

I think you just highlighted something I've been wondering for a long time...whether the HD men on TAM would really be as HD as they think if they needed to put in the effort to give their wives an orgasm every time (I know, I know, all their LD wives have orgasms every single time they have sex ).

I'm sorry, I'm not being helpful. I wish I had some good advice for you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Agreed. Just because we aren't getting used anymore doesn't mean things are better. Now there is just hurt on both ends. I can totally relate to having to explain everything.
> 
> My husband says the same thing. While he would be in the mood for a quickie or a blow job, "sex" just takes so much longer, so we don't do it as often.


Seriously though, how much time are we talking about being "longer"? What is being defined as a quickie here?

My STBW and I have, as she puts it, "exquisite" sex 12 times a week. Each and every time is of the highest quality. Pretty much every time from the beginning of serious foreplay to when we are emerging back into the real world from our own afterglow universe, it is about 45 minutes.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Seriously though, how much time are we talking about being "longer"? What is being defined as a quickie here?
> 
> My STBW and I have, as she puts it, "exquisite" sex 12 times a week. Each and every time is of the highest quality. Pretty much every time from the beginning of serious foreplay to when we are emerging back into the real world from our own afterglow universe, it is about 45 minutes.


That's about the time we take on a usual basis. And we are certainly NOT in the first blushes of new love!!!

Lazy lazy lazy....


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Nothing like yours, that would be a dream come true.

Quickies are under 5 minutes. Probably closer to under 2 minutes.

Blow jobs literately take just a couple minutes. 

*If he is into sex, our "good" events only take 15 or 20 minutes.*

If he isn't into it, and I'm trying to get myself there without any arousal, and with some sad thoughts I can take 45 minutes to an hour.

So honestly. 15 minutes of his time, isn't _that_ much work. 
But to be generous we can say an average of 30 minutes.

Obviously watching wheel of fortune, is more important than 30 minutes of sex for my husband. 

Now don't go getting me all fired up again. I've been in a good place recently. lol


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I seriously dont get this. Too much time......TO HAVE SEX? I mean, too much time cooking dinner, or too much time cleaning the yard, yes. But too much time having sex?

Does not compute.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

agreed


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

:iagree:


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Nothing like yours, that would be a dream come true.
> 
> *Quickies are under 5 minutes. Probably closer to under 2 minutes.*
> 
> ...


Just the other day we had some things going on, and still fooled around before. A while later we both realized that that had been the quickest we had done anythig in at about 20 minutes.

She'll give one or two bj's to completion a week, but there is nothing quick about them. Half an hour or so, but she always gets hers in return.

We are very much equals in our sex life. We are both givers, but more importantly, we both want and need exactly what the other is giving.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I seriously dont get this. Too much time......TO HAVE SEX? I mean, too much time cooking dinner, or too much time cleaning the yard, yes. But too much time having sex?
> 
> Does not compute.


No doubt. My STBW and I have rearranged schedules, been late to things, blown things off because we'd rather have sex.

Hell, we'll probably end up half assed wrapping some of the Christmas presents again because we don't have time because we were having sex.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Oh no, it's really not that much longer at all - as far as I am concerned. I mean - 15 - 20 minutes longer at the most? 45 minutes total for a good time.

I would really love to get an hour or more than that even. 

I'm not easy to get off, I don't think, but it's not impossible given the right circumstances. 

I just so rarely get the right circumstances! 

So yeah, I don't know. I've thought more about divorce in the past 30 days than I have in 18 years of marriage and all over this one issue. I've thought about having an affair more in the past 30 days than I have in 18 years of marriage. 

As many here know - it's like being really thirsty and being given a shot glass of water every so often. 

And before anyone lectures me on mentioning an affair - daydreaming about an affair is not a great thing to be doing in marriage - but I'm not going to make that choice. Don't worry about that - but a girl can think about it in the abstract.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

norajane said (to Scarlett): "Not so HD drive now, is he?"


I don't think anyone has ever said he is HD.

I think (from Scarlett's descriptions here) he is likely middle of the road D, with a LOW level of curiosity for exploration.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> norajane said (to Scarlett): "Not so HD drive now, is he?"
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone has ever said he is HD.
> ...


Whatever his drive is, it's somehow lower now that Scarlett wants him to make more effort with foreplay and orgasms.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Oh no, it's really not that much longer at all - as far as I am concerned. I mean - 15 - 20 minutes longer at the most? 45 minutes total for a good time.
> 
> I would really love to get an hour or more than that even.
> 
> ...


Back when I was first learning to communicate about sex, I was an angry woman. I had finally learned to orgasm and had even learned to get myself off rather quickly and could go again and again. 

That anger prompted me to become selfish with orgasms and I told my husband I was OWED many many orgasms to catch up. And I felt it! I was owed dammit!

Use that anger and channel it to self advocacy. No sex unless you are willing to love me back!


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

You know when I was going thru something like this from my wife it was almost like it was ok since I am a male, when its the female being deprived its a whole different ballgame, not trying to knock anyone here either. Men are mostly horn dogs in my world. Not at all normal to be ld or whatever


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

rush said:


> You know when I was going thru something like this from my wife it was almost like it was ok since I am a male, when its the female being deprived its a whole different ballgame, not trying to knock anyone here either. Men are mostly horn dogs in my world. Not at all normal to be ld or whatever


Were you giving your wife lots of sex and orgasms without getting any of your own in return?


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

norajane said:


> Not so HD drive now, is he?
> 
> I think you just highlighted something I've been wondering for a long time...whether the HD men on TAM would really be as HD as they think if they needed to put in the effort to give their wives an orgasm every time (I know, I know, all their LD wives have orgasms every single time they have sex ).
> 
> I'm sorry, I'm not being helpful. I wish I had some good advice for you.


I would think that all the HD men here would be putting out maximum effort to make sure their wives enjoy sex. I know I would spend any amount of time I could. In my humble opinion fooling around is far superior to watching TV. 

Our regular session is about 40 minutes not including snuggling afterwards.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

rush said: "Men are mostly horn dogs in my world. Not at all normal to be ld or whatever."


As I always do, I will pull quotes like this and say this is NOT true. It is normal for SOME men and SOME women to be LD. Promoting the idea that it isn't normal doesn't help anyone and is outright false.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> rush said: "Men are mostly horn dogs in my world. Not at all normal to be ld or whatever."
> 
> 
> As I always do, I will pull quotes like this and say this is NOT true. It is normal for SOME men and SOME women to be LD. Promoting the idea that it isn't normal doesn't help anyone and is outright false.


Ok I will agree with the some part, but out of coworkers and male family members, most if not all are hd. Maybe its the water


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

rush said: "but out of coworkers and male family members, most if not all are hd."

Men who are LD will make false claims sometimes because they know their LD will not be accepted, especially by other males.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I can see that yes, I am 55, no prostate, and for whatever reason I am super hd, always have been, I just cannot imagine life any other way really. I just cannot understand ld because I am so hd I guess.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And that's the same for most HD people. Which actually works against them.

It is the same for LD people, too. And it works against them, too. They end up thinking that HD people (spouses) are just selfish and obsessed with sex.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

That's where the conflict starts I guess, I do feel for Miss Scarlett and others like that situation, One of the big reasons divorce rate is so high in my opinion


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sadly, this is something that most newly engaged people have no way of knowing, especially when married before age 25.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Actually I think as people grow older their desire changes, good or bad, depends. Even my x wife enjoyed sex, problem was it was not just with me. My wife now is hitting 50 here soon, I think she is getting more desire it seems, I hope so anyway, lol


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Lest I make H sound like a complete ass the comment about no longer having adequate time was preceeded by - you are deserving of the extra effort - but since it takes much longer now.... blah blah blah.

I.don't get it. I'm exasperated. As I had said back on page one, during our 30's we sometimes had sex every day he was in town. 

There is plenty of blame to go around - I have changed the dynamic very suddenly on him. 

Lately I feel so discouraged that things will get worked out. The effort to work things out seems so difficult and complicated that divorce and splitting up a household of 18 years and two kids and retirement accounts, etc, seems the easier option.

I thinking from my reading here I automatically pick up on the lame excuses. Two people who want to have sex will find some way, some place, some time to do it. Its not getting a masters degree - we are talking a small portion of the day.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> . They end up thinking that HD people (spouses) are just selfish and obsessed with sex.



GUILTY as charged. And oddly, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it...


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Honestly at my age I am proud of it


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Lest I make H sound like a complete ass the comment about no longer having adequate time was preceeded by - you are deserving of the extra effort - but since it takes much longer now.... blah blah blah.
> 
> I.don't get it. I'm exasperated. As I had said back on page one, during our 30's we sometimes had sex every day he was in town.
> 
> ...


So are you holding him accountable on fixing his issues? Getting healthy and dealing with his self image? If not, why not?

You had a discussion with him and got what many here thought was an honest discussion from him on some of his issues. Yet you have gone back to focusing on sex while seemingly ignoring that. Why?


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> GUILTY as charged. And oddly, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it...


why? could you explain.......

was it just because he was a poor lover,or didn't tend to you emotional needs a combination of both?

did you try to comunicate it to him and did it fall on deaf ears?


I'm interested because over the years my wife never sat me down and said I wish you would do more of this or that she just acted *****y and like it was a chore or would say I don't know why I not in the mood. I've bought books,videos,etc to try to open lines of comunication but it always felt forced and she never embraced trying to make things better.

now mind you I am a lifetime exerciser and am still my high school weight. I get a fair amount of women flirting with me I have a wicked sence of humor and am dedicated to my family.

not perfect by any stretch but I am always trying to be a better person.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I thinking from my reading here I automatically pick up on the lame excuses. Two people who want to have sex will find some way, some place, some time to do it. Its not getting a masters degree - we are talking a small portion of the day.


*THIS is EXACTLY how I feel.* It's not rocket science, and really what is 15 or even 45 minutes out of a day? I just don't understand. 

Or as Samyeager said. I'd be willing to be late to stuff, rearrange schedules... etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlet I think part of the reason you seem to take longer is because you know there is a lack of passion.

If I know my husband isn't into it, or it's a "lets hurry up and get this over with" or if I can tell he is just trying to please me I take a LOT longer.

For one it's not very arousing to feel rushed, or like your a chore, and you start wondering what's wrong with you, and worrying about if they are having a good time... and blah blah blah. In the end your mind is too busy to relax and enjoy it.

For over two weeks I got in a rut where I couldn't orgasm no matter what because he just wasn't into it, and every time we had sex those same thoughts crept back in. It was hard to break that short bad cycle, I'm sure it's even harder for you to break a 18 year bad spell. 

I also feed off his pleasure. So if he isn't visibly having a good time, it's nearly impossible for me to get there.

If this is ever going to work out, he has really got to put some effort into making it seem he's enjoying it. He is going to have to lay it on thick if he wants to convince you that he does desire you and want to pleasure you, after 18 years of nothing.

The question is, is he willing to put that much effort in? 

I wonder the same about my husband sometimes, and I know I'm preaching to the choir. 

It's a vicious cycle that I understand all too well. 

Just keep working at it. But honestly, it's a change that has to be made by him, not you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> why? could you explain.......
> 
> was it just because he was a poor lover,or didn't tend to you emotional needs a combination of both?
> 
> ...


This calls for a very long answer but I'll condense it as best I can.

First 10 years, we were both clueless and blaming the other.
Second 10 years an awakening took place in me. I blamed him for not confronting the issue at all ever. I blamed him for not trying to help me. I fixed myself, on my own, without his knowledge or help, he just got the benefit...more sex, explorative sex, fun sex.

These last ten years have been reassigning blame more appropriately and communicating needs. this is really really hard for a lot of people, but I think more women than men, though not by much.

So, my communication didn't exist, then it did and it fell on deaf ears, then it didn't fall of deaf ears but I realized that* I would not get what I wanted by waiting for him to want to give it to me.*

He doesn't spend time trying to figure me out and when he does he can only see through his lens, not my lens. 

I don't think anyone should be passive in their relationship needs. It simply doesn't work out well.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> This calls for a very long answer but I'll condense it as best I can.
> 
> First 10 years, we were both clueless and blaming the other.
> Second 10 years an awakening took place in me. I blamed him for not confronting the issue at all ever. I blamed him for not trying to help me. I fixed myself, on my own, without his knowledge or help, he just got the benefit...more sex, explorative sex, fun sex.
> ...


thanks,


----------



## nev6502 (Oct 2, 2012)

Miss Scarlett,

I'm going to go against the general grain here, and heck I'll come straight out and say - this post wont be easy, but it's worth thinking about. I have been unable to read the full length of the thread so forgive me if I leave anything out.

It has already been pointed out a number of times that sweeping this issue under the rug for years turned a small scratch into a disaster.

One thing that many women don't know is that there are men with the same issues when it comes to having an orgasm. The mood needs to be there. Having been through this myself, I should mention that the power is in your hands.

I just wanted to point out that you've obviously driven yourself to the point of insanity over all of this, and in my opinion its time for a fresh start.

Not a fresh start with someone else, not a fresh start for you and your husband, but a fresh start for yourself. I am seeing a great deal of evidence that you have been ramping up the tension for years, while your husband has been for the most part left out.

I may be wrong, but I think you need to first make peace with yourself and realize that your own thoughts and strong attention to the fact that you HAVENT been getting off is making things much, much worse for yourself.

If you go in with the expectation that your husband wont be able to get the job done and follow your expectations, I guarantee it will be difficult to ever get over the issue.

Just like you've fantasized about other people with hot feelings, you need to realize why the fantasy seems so nice. It is because these people don't come with the baggage tags that you have been placing on your husband for many years. No judgement is placed on the people before the fantasy. But if you try to fantasize about the same people while thinking they probably don't know how to get the job done, it is no longer a fantasy.

I think you need to stop dreading it so much, and open up to the fact that there may be something emotional within yourself making the whole thing much more difficult. You'll usually get what you're focused on in life... Are you aware that there is a huge deal of the population of women in the same shoes as yourself?

I would suggest a few things:
- Try this... Open up to the possibility that you might be making your own situation more difficult. Open up to the possibility that you have psyched yourself out for years. I'm saying this because one time I had to open up to the possibility after being convinced it was the other's fault. It was extremely difficult to accept... until I saw results.

- Stop with the negativity! Quit saying its difficult to get off (even alone). Quit saying you need more time than average. Quit thinking about what your husband isn't doing. Some how. Some way, find a way to make these things the furthest from your mind. You're burying yourself by saying these things to yourself constantly and I'd bet there are many others in the know that would agree.

- Start exploring and experimenting when you're "alone". Try finding new ways to relax and release the stresses of the day while getting into the mood. Believe it or not, many people have gone from being very difficult to please to quite easy to please just following the basic rules of relaxing and releasing their thoughts

- Study up on how to become more relaxed and truly getting into an intimate mood yourself - this is a common female issue regardless of what your husband is or isn't doing. Many have been able to surpass this with the right help.

- Try something such as Yoga or Zumba. A healthy body helps to create a healthy mind. A healthy body also makes it easier to... get off

Now this was difficult to write because I'm being the black dog here. I'm expecting to get a nasty reply, but may I please say...

I've been in your shoes. It took me a great deal of time and effort blaming the other for the issue. Once I got desperate, I eventually considered the fact that maybe I was the problem. Maybe it was because I let myself go a little bit. Maybe it was because my resentment of my SO regardless of the fact that my SO didn't fully understand the issue (because I didn't communicate it properly at the beginning). Maybe it was because I constantly spent time thinking about my issues rather than the solutions. Maybe it was because if I wasn't getting off, I was blaming the other party as I had done for years without ever looking at myself.

Well the day came where I realized that I was likely adding *most* of the fuel to the fire. When I started letting go of the world, experimenting with myself, trying different things, taking control of my mood etc. I started seeing results. Eventually I reversed the problem in fact to the point where it was too easy!

Take it for what it is. But I'm not going to sit here and read 100s of replies speaking of councelling, this that and the other thing while no one has mentioned these very clear and painfully obvious considerations.

Look into the law of attraction. It doesn't work by stating what you don't want. And it also doesn't answer problems in the way you think they will be answered. Some times you need to step outside of the box to see the box for what it truly is.

I'm not saying your husband couldn't be better, and I commend you for working with him on the issue, but your general inner dialogue is extremely alarming to me. To me it sounds like for every inch that your husband steps to resolve this issue, you are dragging him back just with your own internal dialogue.

Quit looking at this as a mega-problem, and start looking at this as a work in progress with the feeling that you KNOW you'll get there even if it means working on becoming easier to get to that point.

If you work on that while your husband is trying new things, I all but KNOW that your situation will be reversed. But don't let anyone here convince you that it is your husband alone, because it's not and that is clear from the way you express these issues.

I'm hoping the best for you, I really am. I hope you can get some enlightenment from some of these ideas.

-J


----------

