# Scared for my kids!?!



## Surfer Joe

I'm 39 years old. Been divorced since August. I have two kids: a boy who is 6 and a girl who is nearly 4.

My ex met someone in late February and by March he (and his two kids) had moved in. The guy has a documented history of bad choices, including abuse and other acts of violence.

He swears he has learned his lessons and has turned a corner and so on. He does share custody of his two kids. My ex and I share custody 50/50 of our two kids.

I have been suspicious of him for a couple of months. Obviously, when I found out about his past it freaked me out. My ex and I talked, I was willing to take a chance.

I then started hearing about him disciplining my kids. He would make them stand in the corner with their heads down. He would make them write lines. I made it clear that he was not to discipline our kids.

Then my daughter started having accidents. She never had them in the past and she never had them at my house.

My ex took her into the doctor last Monday (the 20th) to get checked out (she is convinced there is a medical reason for the accidents). The doctor could not find anything, but suggested that maybe she was constipated so he suggested over the counter laxatives.

She was on those for a day and she got bad diarrhea.

Her boyfriend does not work. I'm not sure why...could be to do with his past...could be because he's lazy...I don't know. I was contacted on Monday night and asked if kids could stay home with him and his two boys instead of going to daycare. I said okay.

I picked them up Tuesday afternoon and everything seemed fine. My daughter still had diarrhea and as I was helping her wipe I mentioned she had a sore rear end and expressed sadness that the diarrhea had done that and she corrected me by saying that "***** spanked me".

I was floored. I asked her to tell me the story and she did so in pretty solid detail...even describing the noise it made.

I had my mom come over and she thought she saw a bruise. It was faint, but it was there.

I immediately called the ex and we had it out on the phone. She went back and forth about how he would never do this and how she trusted him with her life and so on. I even got to talk to him and he calmly explained how he had been hit as a child and would never touch the kids and so on. I told her we'd talk about it in the morning when I dropped off kids.

What I did not expect was the show trial that she put on. She sat us all down, including him, and proceeded to ask my daughter a series of questions: "***** would never do this" and "***** did not spank you" and then she proceeded to grill my son - the whole time this guy was in the room.

I had them back the following day (and then for the entire weekend). I know I should have acted immediately, but I did not.

Anyway, on Saturday evening, my aunt (who is a nurse) saw the bruising and it was much more pronounced. She had my uncle (who is a doctor) come and look and he agreed. As a doctor, he has to report any suspected abuse...which he did on Sunday.

He felt it was clearly a hand print.

I should add that I've heard my daughter tell the story several times over several days and she doesn't really waver in how she tells it. I have video of her telling the story and audio.

I called my ex again on Saturday night and we had it out over the phone. She was all over the place emotionally: sometimes she was crying and almost seemed relieved and sometimes she was defiant and angry...before finally becoming eerily calm.

She called the next morning (Sunday) and was again eerily calm. She wanted to talk to the kids and I kept it on speaker and she just asked them how their night went and it was very, very normal.

I called her later on that afternoon once it had been filed and we had a case number and everything and again, she was very calm and collected (which threw me).

Anyway, here is where I am at right now. My uncle suggested my daughter be taken into her own pediatrician to be documented. He noted that while he is a doctor, he is not her doctor and it could be seen as being biased.

My mom is taking her there right now. I'm freaking out for several reasons. I hate subjecting my kids to this (though I know the alternative is far worse).

I have not heard from child protective services...and I'm not sure I will (at least anytime soon). I've been told by someone who works there (a friend of a friend) and one of my friends who is a social worker/therapist that many cases are simply not looked at. They screen everything and a lot times nothing happens...or it takes a week or two.

I'm not sure if (or what) I tell my ex about today's doctor visit. I know I need to do what I think is right for my daughter. I think this is the right move. It is good to put it all on record.

I'm inclined to not say anything, but I know one of the kids will mention it...so it is a case of being preemptive or having to play defense when she calls and wants to know why she wasn't told about the doctor visit.

This is all so messy and so scary. I really feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm so scared.


----------



## EleGirl

Taking her to her own pediatrician is a good thing to do. For one thing, up to now it's been all you and your family. 

If Social Services does nothing, there are things that you can do. For one thing you can get your kids into counseling so that they have someone other than you to talk to about this. And the counselor is a mandatory reporter.

Also talk to the counselor and ask that with you there, they tell your children what is ok and not ok for this guy and his mother to do.


----------



## karole

Protect your children at all costs. I do not understand a mother that would move in a man she barely knows, much less have him around her children. She has a screw lose.


----------



## Surfer Joe

EleGirl said:


> Taking her to her own pediatrician is a good thing to do. For one thing, up to now it's been all you and your family.
> 
> If Social Services does nothing, there are things that you can do. For one thing you can get your kids into counseling so that they have someone other than you to talk to about this. And the counselor is a mandatory reporter.
> 
> Also talk to the counselor and ask that with you there, they tell your children what is ok and not ok for this guy and his mother to do.


I am in the process of getting them set up with a therapist. It has been on my mind, but the events of last week cinched it. The therapist who was recommended to be was on vacation last week (today we her first day back), but she said she had openings next week and that I should leave her a message if I was interested (which I did)...so just waiting for a call back.

My uncle's concern was that even though he is a family doctor, he's also my uncle...and he felt it would be a good idea to have her looked at by her own doctor. I guess the bruising is fainter than it was, but my mom felt you could still tell it was a hand print.

When my uncle saw it on Saturday, he had no doubt in his mind what it was. He was even able to describe to me what part of the hand caused what bruise.

As I went back and forth with my ex on Saturday, I kept telling her that someone put a hand print on our daughter and if it was not me and it was not her then who was it...and she could not give me an answer.

I also told her - when she would go on about everyone attacking her - that it was not about her, it was about our daughter. 

If it had been simply an accusation...I would still have listened. I would still have brought it to my ex's attention (as I have with some smaller things)...but because there was physical proof attached to it, it is what it is.

I don't know if anything will come out of this. I live in a big county. Social services might not look into it, but at the least I've served them notice that this is serious.

...and that is the other thing. The ex just doesn't seem to take this seriously. She went to a theme park on Sunday. If it had been the other way around, I would not have acted business as usual.

The therapy will help. I do feel like the kids have things they want to say, but they don't know how to express them or they do not feel comfortable expressing them for whatever reason.

I just hate all of this. I hate that we have to go through this. I hate that she made such rotten choices that this is what we're going through right now.

UGH!?


----------



## Surfer Joe

karole said:


> Protect your children at all costs. I do not understand a mother that would move in a man she barely knows, much less have him around her children. She has a screw lose.


She most definitely does. I found out there were dating around the last week of February and she claimed she was taking it slow...but soon there were staying overnight and within a couple of weeks they were moved in 100%.

He and his kids had been living in someone's basement prior to this (I don't know what the situation was). He has been out of work (largely due to his prison issues)...but I also think he just doesn't care to work.

My son has told me several times that all ***** does all day is "play games on his phone, smoke cigarettes, and watch movies".

Another weird thing. My mom sent me a text after she picked them up and she said my kids told her that they had just "found out" that his two kids were their cousins?? What the heck? I know kids misunderstand things, but come on...doesn't that seem odd??

So many weird things going on. It makes my head spin...


----------



## Surfer Joe

I just spoke with the doctor. He said he could not say 100% that the bruising was caused by a hand print (they had faded too much), but he felt it was "highly likely". He took additional photographs and measurements.

I feel somewhat validated that he did not refute my uncle's initial diagnosis, though I'm beating myself up for not acting sooner...when the bruising was more pronounced.

He said he did see enough that he also had to report it. I believe he is also sending over photos (he was kind of hard to understand)...so I'm waiting for my mom to call me.

He seemed to think the county would move faster once he had called it in (and I think sent photos)...but they have not moved quickly thus far. I'm not certain this will really change anything.

He mentioned the county would probably want to see her sooner than later as the bruises are fading.

The ex is going to have to be brought into the loop. I am going to tell her the reason for my daughter's visit today...which was basically to verify what my uncle saw. She is aware that it has been reported. My uncle was concerned about questions of bias because he's my uncle.

He said he would not be calling my ex, but if she called he would have to tell her about the visit (which is fine - I'm going to do that on my own).

So...nothing really changed because of this visit...other than the fact that it is now on her medical record.

My head is just spinning right now.

I just want to get home and pick up my kids and take them home. I want to sit down and talk with them and ask them if they have any questions...and then I will text the ex (a far better way of talking to her these days) and explain the visit.

I swear, I just want some stability and some piece-of-mind. My biggest worry should simply be missing them when they're with their mom and nothing more. I can deal with that.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Does your state (WI) have any morality clauses in the Marital Separation Agreement? They do in the South (surprise, surprise) but it may be worth asking an Atty for the rules in WI. If so they you can refuse the kids staying round there is he is there also.

If Child Services are slow in responding and your kids show any more signs then it would probably be worth making a police call. That shows you ex that you are serious about this, gets it logged and maybe even escalated with CS. You would have to explain carefully to your kids that they are not in trouble as they will be scared when the Police come around but in this case you need to act decisively and quickly. A police investigation may also justify you refusing your ex unsupervised access while the investigation is being carried out.


----------



## Surfer Joe

WonkyNinja said:


> Does your state (WI) have any morality clauses in the Marital Separation Agreement? They do in the South (surprise, surprise) but it may be worth asking an Atty for the rules in WI. If so they you can refuse the kids staying round there is he is there also.
> 
> If Child Services are slow in responding and your kids show any more signs then it would probably be worth making a police call. That shows you ex that you are serious about this, gets it logged and maybe even escalated with CS. You would have to explain carefully to your kids that they are not in trouble as they will be scared when the Police come around but in this case you need to act decisively and quickly. A police investigation may also justify you refusing your ex unsupervised access while the investigation is being carried out.


No morality clause up here.

I've definitely made the decision in the back of my head that next time I go straight to the cops...if for nothing more than to put some fear into them.

My uncle was told when he first made the report that CPS could not override an existing custody placement until they had made in investigation...so I have to allow kids to go back with her on her days. I have made it clear that he is not to be with them alone. If she runs to the store...I had better not hear about her leaving them with him.

I've recorded and documented a ton. I have a diary going back to the day this all started in March of 2015 when she told me she wanted out. It is full of pretty much everything...a lot of erratic behavior.

I also had my daughter relate the story of the spanking to me on my iPhone and I also recorded her discussing it later on. 

This is just turning into a nightmare.

I'm sick that my kids (and even myself) have to suffer because of her poor choices.

She's kicked me around the block several times and people keep telling me how strong I am...well...this is the first time I feel strong or brave or anything special. It has taken a lot out of me to follow through on this, but I also know I don't have another choice.

At the end of the day, my daughter has a large bruise on her hand and she said he did it to her. She said it over and over again. Factor in his past and it adds up to something shady.

I'm not trying to destroy her. I want her to move on (so I can move on). I want her to be happy and stable. I'm not doing any of this to cause her pain or because I'm jealous or vindictive or anything.


----------



## Surfer Joe

The other issue that I'm struggling to address is that my mom wants me to tell her sister that CPS have been contacted. I have a good relationship with her sister. My ex has cut her sister out of her life (for the most part). My mom feels that eventually this will get out and that it is better someone in her family hears it from me than from another source.

I'm not so sure. If I knew 100% that CPS was going to follow-thru and that it was imminent, I would maybe say something. I just don't know if they will do anything. I've heard too many stories of cases just not being investigated.

There is just nothing about this that is easy.


----------



## turnera

I think you need to present a united front to EVERYone involved. "My child appears to be in danger and I am protecting my child." Nothing more, nothing less. Do NOT be afraid of your ex's reaction. BTW, she is acting just like an abused woman; she's afraid of him, too.


----------



## EleGirl

It is against forum rules to suggest that a person use violence.

I deleted the posts that suggest violence and those that quoted/discussed it.


----------



## Surfer Joe

EleGirl said:


> It is against forum rules to suggest that a person use violence.
> 
> I deleted the posts that suggest violence and those that quoted/discussed it.


Thank you.


----------



## Surfer Joe

turnera2 said:


> I think you need to present a united front to EVERYone involved. "My child appears to be in danger and I am protecting my child." Nothing more, nothing less. Do NOT be afraid of your ex's reaction. BTW, she is acting just like an abused woman; she's afraid of him, too.


Most definitely she is acting like someone being abused. I've thought that and others have thought that, too.

Consider this: they have been dating since late February, but he has not been introduced to her friends (they were all VERY close until she met him) OR her sister (who is her only immediate relative in town). That seems odd.

I mentioned it to her on Saturday and she got very defensive. She was NOT being abused. Thing is, I never directly accused him of abusing her. It was more of a rhetorical thing.

That said, there is a very controlling feeling about the entire thing. I've even sensed it. Like when HE wanted to talk to me when I first called her Tuesday. He wanted to present me with his narrative and maybe he is innocent. I don't want to accuse...but there is just so much evidence that something not normal is going on. Small things and big things. Taken together it paints a pretty bad picture.


----------



## Unicus

Joe, this is a bad story. Whenever the well being of kids is affected, it's always serious. 

His actions are not only unconscionable they're illegal. He has absolutely no legal standing to discipline your kids. He's the moms boyfriend.

I'd tell both of them this is absolutely forbidden and non negotiable. I'd follow thru with protective services, and continue to file reports should this continue. Call the police and file a report with them, too.

Call your attorney and get him/her involved. Personally, i would withhold visitation until this gets worked out to your satisfaction..which might entail an emergency court order to change the visitation to exclude him.

I'd also tell them in advance of your plans so there's no confusion or distraction from "resentment", this is purely about child welfare.

Take pictures of every wound or injury, and get the pediatrician to take a look and write a descriptive letter of his/her findings. Share these with the police, child protective services, and your attorney.

Lastly, make sure you let the kids know you're aware and horrified, and how unacceptable that behavior is and that you are going to do what needs to be done to keep them safe.


----------



## Surfer Joe

turnera2 said:


> I think you need to present a united front to EVERYone involved. "My child appears to be in danger and I am protecting my child." Nothing more, nothing less. Do NOT be afraid of your ex's reaction. BTW, she is acting just like an abused woman; she's afraid of him, too.





Unicus said:


> Joe, this is a bad story. Whenever the well being of kids is affected, it's always serious.
> 
> His actions are not only unconscionable they're illegal. He has absolutely no legal standing to discipline your kids. He's the moms boyfriend.
> 
> I'd tell both of them this is absolutely forbidden and non negotiable. I'd follow thru with protective services, and continue to file reports should this continue. Call the police and file a report with them, too.
> 
> Call your attorney and get him/her involved. Personally, i would withhold visitation until this gets worked out to your satisfaction..which might entail an emergency court order to change the visitation to exclude him.
> 
> I'd also tell them in advance of your plans so there's no confusion or distraction from "resentment", this is purely about child welfare.
> 
> Take pictures of every wound or injury, and get the pediatrician to take a look and write a descriptive letter of his/her findings. Share these with the police, child protective services, and your attorney.
> 
> Lastly, make sure you let the kids know you're aware and horrified, and how unacceptable that behavior is and that you are going to do what needs to be done to keep them safe.


All good stuff and I've done most of it. I'm hounding protective services until they do something. I've had her doctor check it over, take photos and measurements. I've put her on notice - he is NOT to be alone with kids - hard part is that in my state they won't override existing custody until they investigate (if they even do that).

A big thing is that I have been constantly telling the kids that I do not approve and that I think it is a really bad thing and that they are safe at my house.

They have their first therapy session on the 7th. I can't wait. I think things will come out.

It is hard being proactive. It is really scary...but also empowering. I think he is controlling and has at the least emotionally abused them (shaming is a big no-no in my book and he has done that on a regular basis).

She is just in such massive denial. "He would never do that" and "I trust him with my life" and "He's sworn to me he has never touched them" and "I've never even seen him spank his own kids" and on and on. She's known him a couple of months and anyone who has seen his rap sheet (and in Wisconsin we're able to simply go online and search arrest records) knows his past.

Bad juju...


----------



## Unicus

Sounds like you're on top of this, +1.

If all the authorities are involved, all the reports are filed, you've put them on notice in writing, AND you've contacted your attorney..you didn't mention that....s/he can file an emergency protective order that at least forbids him from participating in visitation, based on all the current documentation.


----------



## Surfer Joe

Unicus said:


> Sounds like you're on top of this, +1.
> 
> If all the authorities are involved, all the reports are filed, you've put them on notice in writing, AND you've contacted your attorney..you didn't mention that....s/he can file an emergency protective order that at least forbids him from participating in visitation, based on all the current documentation.


Waiting to see who things shake out in next day or so before involving lawyer. Think visit to pediatrician today could really shake things loose with child protection.


----------



## *Deidre*

turnera2 said:


> I think you need to present a united front to EVERYone involved. "My child appears to be in danger and I am protecting my child." Nothing more, nothing less. Do NOT be afraid of your ex's reaction. BTW, she is acting just like an abused woman; she's afraid of him, too.


This.

Hopeful and praying that you can get your kids out of this dreadful situation.


----------



## EunuchMonk

Surfer Joe said:


> Another weird thing. My mom sent me a text after she picked them up and she said my kids told her that they had just "found out" that his two kids were their cousins?? What the heck? I know kids misunderstand things, but come on...doesn't that seem odd??


What does this mean, OP?


----------



## Surfer Joe

EunuchMonk said:


> What does this mean, OP?


I have no idea. I thought it was an insanely weird thing for them to say. They are most definitely NOT cousins. They live together 50% of the time...but why tell them that? I know kids pick up on things...but it was made to me to sound like someone told them that. Very, very odd things going on...


----------



## EleGirl

Have you checked this guy's criminal record?


----------



## Pluto2

As for the "cousins" remark-I suspect she is only repeating what the boyfriend said, and he said it in a cheap attempt to make everyone family. Like those "uncles" who really aren't, but are just family friends that feel like family. But that's just a guess.

If your ex is being abused, well we don't know. If she is, she clearly isn't ready to admit it, and certainly not to you. Its not uncommon for an abuse victim to defend and excuse the actions of their abusers. The victims feel ashamed and are in denial that someone they let in their lives would hurt them. If its true, it will come out. Focus on your kids-she isn't your concern-your kids safety is your concern.


----------



## foolscotton3

I had the same issue with my son (was 9-10) when my now ex-wife and I lived together.

Our marriage lasted almost 2 years, he had accidents on a daily basis. She wasn't physically abusive, but he was terrified of her and would soil himself whenever he was around her.

We tried everything for 2 years, discipline was probably the most damaging approach to this sort of issue because then the child tries to hide the issue.

I've gotten some excellent advice from @EleGirl, @jld, and others.

The thing that worked the best was minimizing his time spent at my house when my ex was around, never leaving him with her when I am not around, and teaching him to take responsibility for cleaning himself up (rather than hiding it)

She will begin to hide it, so the last suggestion is the most important.

Accident free since April 17 2015, the day I told him it will be just us for awhile and separated. My ex wasn't the cause of the accidents, but my son was very stressed out, depressed, and scared of her presence. She wasn't welcoming of him in the least, the accidents played a big part in her pushing him away from the marriage, and pushing him away had a big part to the accidents.


Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


----------



## jld

foolscotton3 said:


> I had the same issue with my son (was 9-10) when my now ex-wife and I lived together.
> 
> Our marriage lasted almost 2 years, he had accidents on a daily basis. She wasn't physically abusive, but he was terrified of her and would soil himself whenever he was around her.
> 
> We tried everything for 2 years, discipline was probably the most damaging approach to this sort of issue because then the child tries to hide the issue.
> 
> I've gotten some excellent advice from @EleGirl, @jld, and others.
> 
> The thing that worked the best was minimizing his time spent at my house when my ex was around, never leaving him with her when I am not around, and teaching him to take responsibility for cleaning himself up (rather than hiding it)
> 
> She will begin to hide it, so the last suggestion is the most important.
> 
> Accident free since April 17 2015, the day I told him it will be just us for awhile and separated. My ex wasn't the cause of the accidents, but my son was very stressed out, depressed, and scared of her presence. She wasn't welcoming of him in the least, the accidents played a big part in her pushing him away from the marriage, and pushing him away had a big part to the accidents.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


So very, very glad she is not in his life anymore, foolscotton.


----------



## Surfer Joe

EleGirl said:


> Have you checked this guy's criminal record?


Yes. In my state it is a very simple search. He has a long record. Battery, criminal trespass, restraining orders, getting busted for ignoring restraining orders, hitting a cop, prescription drug abuse.

The domestic stuff scares me the most (obviously). He's been accused of domestic issues before. He claims it was because his now ex-wife and her boyfriend were out to get him. That doesn't explain hitting a police officer and stuff like that.

Also, a lot of money judgments and stuff like that.

He has done time in prison on several instances and is currently on probation from last offense. He got out of prison for the whole trespass, assaulting an officer thing and he claims he was "tricked" into visiting his kids which caused him to be picked up for violating a domestic order.

I looked him up on my own. Her friends actually looked him up independently.


----------



## Surfer Joe

She sent me a text late last night "suggesting" that it would be best if I met her at the door when I dropped off the kids.

She was apparently afraid of a confrontation between me and the boyfriend. I am not a physical person.

I told her I had no issue maintaining my composure in front of the kids, but if she was concerned about him, I understood and thanked her.

She took offense to that and I asked why. Why would she be concerned about something happening and then take offense when I acknowledged it?

She said she was not concerned about him?

I asked her what she thought I would do? She kept saying she was worried something would be said in front of the kids.

I finally just let it go...but I was seething.

Oh yeah, he added that HIS ex doesn't come in the house when she drops his kids off. This is all fine - I don't want to see him - but since when did it become HIS house? He has no job. He doesn't pay the mortgage on the condo. He just lives there. Also, since when did HE start making decisions for her?

This whole exchange just served to make me more suspicious. I felt it was very, very odd.

I did drop them off at the door this morning. Again, I don't really want to see him. I'm hoping CPS comes through today or tomorrow. The pediatrician seemed to think that things would happen faster, now. I hope so.


----------



## Surfer Joe

This guy's deal is that he likes to claim that the world has been out to get him. All of his troubles have been the fault of someone else (which is kind of how my ex is)...but at least in her case it has never led to multiple jail stints.

He has been accused of things like this before...and sometimes they have stuck.

It has never been my goal to be out to get him. The more stable my ex's life is, the more stable my kid's life is (and my life is). All I know is that she was allowed to spend the day alone with him and my son and his two kids and she came home with the beginnings of a large bruise on her rear and a story about being spanked by him. I did not prompt the story. I assumed it was because of the diarrhea she had because they were pumping her full of Miralax. 

What else was I supposed to do? He is lucky I didn't simply call the cops (which I will the next time it happens).

He can claim he is being persecuted and picked on. He can claim I'm out to get him (just like everyone else is)...but he cannot explain away the fact that she had a hand print shaped bruise on her body and a claim that he did it. A claim she made to several people.

The guy is a piece of work and I really feel like he is manipulating my ex. He has moved in and taken control of her life and her condo and everything and he rules over it...spending his days smoking cigarettes (that she buys him), playing games on his phone, and watching movies...and apparently emotionally and physically abusing children...


----------



## foolscotton3

Child abuse restraining orders and injunctions.
You wouldn't be the first or last person to file this against him.

I would get on this as soon as possible, you can file the motion without an attorney, you already have a report from her physician, he would probably be required to testify, having your uncle testify and your daughter's recordings are more than enough to get a protective order.

He won't suffer punitive damages unless he violates the order, so no actions will be taken against him, but it will certainly change the environment and probably wake your ex up.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


----------



## Unicus

Joe, the next step really is spending the money to have your attorney file an immediate protective order and/or a change in the parenting plan to prevent him from participating in visitation.

Your plan to "let DCS" take care of it is naive, with or without the pediatrician's report. If your concerns are well founded and accurate, your choice to basically take the cheapest yet most ineffective route could put them in even greater harm, yes?

We read in the papers all the time, unfortunately, about some awful tragedy that seems just so avoidable. Don't become one of them.


----------



## larry.gray

Surfer Joe said:


> He has done time in prison on several instances and is currently on probation from last offense. He got out of prison for the whole trespass, assaulting an officer thing and he claims he was "tricked" into visiting his kids which caused him to be picked up for violating a domestic order.


See if you can find out who his parole officer is. He has minimal rights on parole. There may be restrictions on him about being around kids. If you report what happened to the parole officer that officer may investigate and possibly put him back in jail.


----------



## foolscotton3

Unicus said:


> Joe, the next step really is spending the money to have your attorney file an immediate protective order and/or a change in the parenting plan to prevent him from participating in visitation.
> 
> Your plan to "let DCS" take care of it is naive, with or without the pediatrician's report. If your concerns are well founded and accurate, your choice to basically take the cheapest yet most ineffective route could put them in even greater harm, yes?
> 
> We read in the papers all the time, unfortunately, about some awful tragedy that seems just so avoidable. Don't become one of them.


Thank you for pointing that out, I was afraid to myself. Often when children are murdered, we find out that CPS was pending an investigation. For someone that has just gotten out of prison, desperate measures are considered deliberate to staying out of prison. Children end up dead. I trained this guy and was working with him until the sheriff took him away. I knew he had anger issues, and witnessed it first hand.

These kids belong to you, not CPS, it is your job to protect them as their father.

*START HERE*

This guy is an abuser, he will continue to abuse whomever he can for as long as he can. This should push him out of your children's lives, he isn't going to fight it, it's not worth him fighting it, look at his history on ccap... He will take notice and move on to the next opportunity, or back into someone's basement.

File the restraining order, and end this. CPS will catch up with him in a year or so, hopefully he isn't abusing someone else at that time.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


----------



## Surfer Joe

Unicus said:


> Joe, the next step really is spending the money to have your attorney file an immediate protective order and/or a change in the parenting plan to prevent him from participating in visitation.
> 
> Your plan to "let DCS" take care of it is naive, with or without the pediatrician's report. If your concerns are well founded and accurate, your choice to basically take the cheapest yet most ineffective route could put them in even greater harm, yes?
> 
> We read in the papers all the time, unfortunately, about some awful tragedy that seems just so avoidable. Don't become one of them.


I'm learning how to get through this as a I go. I quickly learning that hoping "child services" will do anything is probably not going to fix things like they need to be fixed.

I am going to look into what has been suggested and figure out a course of action.

Thank you all for the advice!


----------



## Surfer Joe

foolscotton3 said:


> Thank you for pointing that out, I was afraid to myself. Often when children are murdered, we find out that CPS was pending an investigation. For someone that has just gotten out of prison, desperate measures are considered deliberate to staying out of prison. Children end up dead. I trained this guy and was working with him until the sheriff took him away. I knew he had anger issues, and witnessed it first hand.
> 
> These kids belong to you, not CPS, it is your job to protect them as their father.
> 
> *START HERE*
> 
> This guy is an abuser, he will continue to abuse whomever he can for as long as he can. This should push him out of your children's lives, he isn't going to fight it, it's not worth him fighting it, look at his history on ccap... He will take notice and move on to the next opportunity, or back into someone's basement.
> 
> File the restraining order, and end this. CPS will catch up with him in a year or so, hopefully he isn't abusing someone else at that time.
> 
> Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


This is some good stuff. Thanks for sharing and a good place to start.


----------



## larry.gray

Does your ex own a gun? If he has a domestic violence conviction he is prohibited from being around a gun. That would send him back to jail too.


----------



## Kivlor

Just a word of caution here... Is it possible everyone is overreacting a bit? Spanking is generally common practice for parenting here in the states. Also, you don't get to determine who can and can't discipline your kids while they're at your XW's. That's her job since you have separate households. Just like she doesn't get to determine that at your house. 

I may be wrong here, maybe he was genuinely abusive. Or maybe you and your W have a "no spanking" policy. Or any number of things. Just tossing out some questions.

On a separate note, if your DD has a rash and pain from the diarrhea, I would use this. You can get it at any feed store. Cures that stuff in a heartbeat. Way better than the things you can get at a pharmacy IMO.


----------



## xxyesenia25

Hopefully there won't be a next time but please call police immediately so there is a report on it. Plus with his background it will only give you leverage. Please assure your children that they must tell you everything that happens (sometimes they feel threatened) last do they have their own phone they can contact you with in case something happens again? Set up a plan if he is being abusive have them run out of the house at a safe location and call you. Immediately involve police. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xxyesenia25

Last thing ask about his boys? Any odd behavior towards your kids? Maybe bullying? you are an amazing dad for being protective over them! Great job dad!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrsHolland

No way on Earth would I return my kids back to a situation like this. Don't rely on other people to protect them, you need to protect them yourself.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Kivlor said:


> Just a word of caution here... Is it possible everyone is overreacting a bit? Spanking is generally common practice for parenting here in the states. Also, you don't get to determine who can and can't discipline your kids while they're at your XW's. That's her job since you have separate households. Just like she doesn't get to determine that at your house.


Leaving the overall spanking / no-spanking issue aside spanking doesn't leave bruises that a doctor can detect and identify days later. That is way beyond spanking and into abuse.

You do get to determine who can and cannot discipline your kids. Just because they are with your ex-spouse doesn't mean that your responsibility for them ends. You would hope that you can trust your ex with their safety, even if not everything is they way you would like it, but if that isn't being adhered to then it is every parents responsibility to protect their children. 

If she won't do that then he has to.


----------



## WonkyNinja

MrsHolland said:


> No way on Earth would I return my kids back to a situation like this. Don't rely on other people to protect them, you need to protect them yourself.


While I fully agree with your sentiment the reality of the situation is that if he withholds the children from their mother as dictated by the court then she can press charges against him and restrict his access. 

He is doing the right thing by taking the necessary steps to prove that she is not acting in their best interests and legally being able to hold onto them.

I can't imagine what he goes through when he has to return them to her.


----------



## Pluto2

You could file a expedited motion to modify custody to obtain sole physical custody of the kids until such time as CPS can complete its investigation. I have no idea if the concern for potential abuse alone would be sufficient to win a modification. But it would certainly put this issue in the record.


----------



## MEM2020

This is the one guy - he ought be afraid of. His parole officer. 

I would get in contact with that guy - and meet with him. He likely knows the best way to manage people like this. 

I would also get your ex wife to sign a modification to your custody agreement explicitly promising not to leave the kids in his "care".

If she violates such an agreement - you might be able to get sole custody. 

If she refuses - and you take her to family court - they will gut her - for allowing a person with his record - to watch your kids. 





larry.gray said:


> See if you can find out who his parole officer is. He has minimal rights on parole. There may be restrictions on him about being around kids. If you report what happened to the parole officer that officer may investigate and possibly put him back in jail.


----------



## Surfer Joe

WonkyNinja said:


> While I fully agree with your sentiment the reality of the situation is that if he withholds the children from their mother as dictated by the court then she can press charges against him and restrict his access.
> 
> He is doing the right thing by taking the necessary steps to prove that she is not acting in their best interests and legally being able to hold onto them.
> 
> I can't imagine what he goes through when he has to return them to her.


Yeah, I've looked into this. You're right. I cannot withhold access and yes, it is tough to return them to her. Not because I want to withhold them from her. I want them to be with their mother, but right now I don't believe she is in her right mind. I think this bum needs to get gone and I'm working my towards that goal. I just want to make sure I it correctly and that I do it so he doesn't get a second chance.

I will make this a reality one way or another.


----------



## Surfer Joe

WonkyNinja said:


> Leaving the overall spanking / no-spanking issue aside spanking doesn't leave bruises that a doctor can detect and identify days later. That is way beyond spanking and into abuse.
> 
> You do get to determine who can and cannot discipline your kids. Just because they are with your ex-spouse doesn't mean that your responsibility for them ends. You would hope that you can trust your ex with their safety, even if not everything is they way you would like it, but if that isn't being adhered to then it is every parents responsibility to protect their children.
> 
> If she won't do that then he has to.


From what I understand, any spanking that leaves a bruise is considered child abuse in my state.

Personally, I have never spanked them as I don't believe it works. My opinion. She swatted them a few times while we were married, but never very hard. She slapped them a few times, too. I made it clear I did not accept that and did not want to see it happen.


----------



## Surfer Joe

xxyesenia25 said:


> Last thing ask about his boys? Any odd behavior towards your kids? Maybe bullying? you are an amazing dad for being protective over them! Great job dad!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was some bullying early on, but that seems to have gone away. My kids appear to genuinely like hanging out with his kids. That is a good thing.


----------



## Surfer Joe

xxyesenia25 said:


> Hopefully there won't be a next time but please call police immediately so there is a report on it. Plus with his background it will only give you leverage. Please assure your children that they must tell you everything that happens (sometimes they feel threatened) last do they have their own phone they can contact you with in case something happens again? Set up a plan if he is being abusive have them run out of the house at a safe location and call you. Immediately involve police.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. I pray there is no next time, but if there is - I have already made up my mind that my first call will be to the police. I'm beating myself up somewhat for not doing that the first time - and maybe he got lucky due to my lack of experience. I don't know. I do know it will never happen this way again. The next time the boys in blue will be arriving.


----------



## MrsHolland

Surfer Joe said:


> I agree. I pray there is no next time, but if there is - I have already made up my mind that my first call will be to the police. I'm beating myself up somewhat for not doing that the first time - and maybe he got lucky due to my lack of experience. I don't know. I do know it will never happen this way again. *The next time the boys in blue will be arriving*.


Have you made that very clear to your ex?

You are in a horrible position but ultimately you are your children's advocate and if in your shoes I would do everything possible to avoid a repeat incident, after the fact is too late.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Surfer Joe said:


> From what I understand, any spanking that leaves a bruise is considered child abuse in my state.
> 
> Personally, I have never spanked them *as I don't believe it works*. My opinion. She swatted them a few times while we were married, but never very hard. She slapped them a few times, too. I made it clear I did not accept that and did not want to see it happen.


I couldn't agree more, but I didn't want to sidetrack the thread away from your major issue.


----------



## Kivlor

WonkyNinja said:


> Leaving the overall spanking / no-spanking issue aside spanking doesn't leave bruises that a doctor can detect and identify days later. That is way beyond spanking and into abuse.
> 
> You do get to determine who can and cannot discipline your kids. Just because they are with your ex-spouse doesn't mean that your responsibility for them ends. You would hope that you can trust your ex with their safety, even if not everything is they way you would like it, but if that isn't being adhered to then it is every parents responsibility to protect their children.
> 
> If she won't do that then he has to.


Let's test this: Does the XW have to have approval from OP to get a babysitter for a couple of hours? They're being permitted a certain level of authority to discipline. But no, he has no such authority. Does the XW get to tell him "I didn't give you permission to let your mother discipline our kids!" No, no she doesn't. 

He has no legal authority over who gets to discipline the kids while they are at XW's house. He does have legal authority over who does so in his home. She has the same limitations. She is Queen of her castle, just has he is King of his. Just because you wish it were different doesn't change it. 

I'm really unmoved by the "Oh there was a 'detectable' bruise!" claim. Spankings often leave bruises. Hell, grabbing your kid's arm to keep them out of a dangerous situation leaves bruises. I think it's quite a legitimate question to ask: Is this abuse? Rather than jumping to "ABUSER!" Without more context, this sounds to me like the kind of behavior someone would see in a parent who is trying to abuse CPS to alienate their former spouse from the kids. 

But I err on the side of parental discretion, and less on the side of the state in these matters. Again, I think a lot of this is going to be determined by the OPs circumstances. 

OP you seem to have a problem with spanking in general. Does your W know and understand this? Is this a new development so far as telling the XW no to such behavior?


----------



## MEM2020

Kivlor,
This guy has a criminal record. And not a one time thing either. 

Family court is not driven by the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard. It is a civil court driven by a 'preponderance of evidence.' standard.

Leaving young children in the care of a convicted felon is way beyond the threshold needed in family court. 

This isn't a false claim scenario - it's a legitimate risk. 





Kivlor said:


> Let's test this: Does the XW have to have approval from OP to get a babysitter for a couple of hours? They're being permitted a certain level of authority to discipline. But no, he has no such authority. Does the XW get to tell him "I didn't give you permission to let your mother discipline our kids!" No, no she doesn't.
> 
> He has no legal authority over who gets to discipline the kids while they are at XW's house. He does have legal authority over who does so in his home. She has the same limitations. She is Queen of her castle, just has he is King of his. Just because you wish it were different doesn't change it.
> 
> I'm really unmoved by the "Oh there was a 'detectable' bruise!" claim. Spankings often leave bruises. Hell, grabbing your kid's arm to keep them out of a dangerous situation leaves bruises. I think it's quite a legitimate question to ask: Is this abuse? Rather than jumping to "ABUSER!" Without more context, this sounds to me like the kind of behavior someone would see in a parent who is trying to abuse CPS to alienate their former spouse from the kids.
> 
> But I err on the side of parental discretion, and less on the side of the state in these matters. Again, I think a lot of this is going to be determined by the OPs circumstances.
> 
> OP you seem to have a problem with spanking in general. Does your W know and understand this? Is this a new development so far as telling the XW no to such behavior?


----------



## foolscotton3

Kivlor said:


> He has no legal authority over who gets to discipline the kids while they are at XW's house. He does have legal authority over who does so in his home.


If they have "joint legal custody," then he has an equal right to make any/all decisions at any/all times.

Also,

*767.451 Revision of legal custody and physical placement orders.* Except for matters under s. 767.461 or 767.481, the following provisions are applicable to modifications of legal custody and physical placement orders:

(1) Substantial modifications.​
(a) _Within 2 years after final judgment._ Except as provided under sub. (2), a court may not modify any of the following orders before 2 years after the final judgment determining legal custody or physical placement is entered under s. 767.41, unless a party seeking the modification, upon petition, motion, or order to show cause, shows by substantial evidence that the modification is necessary because the current custodial conditions are physically or emotionally harmful to the best interest of the child:​
(1) An order of legal custody.​
(2) An order of physical placement if the modification would substantially alter the time a parent may spend with his or her child.​
...

I assume you currently have "Joint Legal Custody" of your two children. If that is the case, the court assumes that you and your ex-wife, together, will make all "Major Decisions" decisions regarding your children.

Since you do not intend to alter the time either one of you spend with your children, no physical placement orders would need to be revised.

As I suggested before, imho the quickest and most efficient way to handle your current situation would be to file a temporary protective restraining order against your ex-wife's boyfriend. He will not be allowed to be in the unsupervised presence of your children at any time.

That will most likely put the kibosh on his hiatus with your ex-wife. Unless he is a complete nut job and decides to fvck up his life any more than he already has, this guy will take off running. I don't think he wants trouble, he finds enough of that when he goes batsh¡t crazy.

You do not need to prove abuse to obtain a TPO, you only need an allegation of phyaical or emotional abuse. The physiological stressors causing encopresis in your daughter are enough to suspect emotional abuse, the hand print is enough to suspect physical abuse. If CPS has been in fact notified, you already have allegations of abuse. No further charges need to be filed, and nobody gets in trouble as long as the protective order is obeyed.

If your ex-wife's boyfriend or your ex wife violates the protective order, then you should seek sole custody of your children (without modifying placement) this gives you absolute power to decide who your children are around at any time, and only you are allowed to make all major decisions concerning your children. Your ex-wife would become a guardian parent but not have legal custody. She would need a warrant to take physical custody from you and you would not need one to take the kids back from her. Still, you can honor the current physical placement schedule.


----------



## foolscotton3

Kivlor said:


> Does the XW get to tell him "I didn't give you permission to let your mother discipline our kids!" No, no she doesn't.


According to state statutes, a parent to a custodial parent is considered a guardian in the absence of a present custodial parent.

Live in boyfriends are not guardians, regardless of the presence of a custodial parent.

A better example of this statute in action would be: He is within his rights as a custodial parent to take physical custody of his children from his ex-wife's boyfriend, yet his ex-wife would need a warrant to take physical custody of her own children from his mother.


Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


----------



## WonkyNinja

Kivlor said:


> Let's test this: Does the XW have to have approval from OP to get a babysitter for a couple of hours? They're being permitted a certain level of authority to discipline. But no, he has no such authority. Does the XW get to tell him "I didn't give you permission to let your mother discipline our kids!" No, no she doesn't.
> 
> He has no legal authority over who gets to discipline the kids while they are at XW's house. He does have legal authority over who does so in his home. She has the same limitations. She is Queen of her castle, just has he is King of his. Just because you wish it were different doesn't change it.
> 
> I'm really unmoved by the "Oh there was a 'detectable' bruise!" claim. Spankings often leave bruises. Hell, grabbing your kid's arm to keep them out of a dangerous situation leaves bruises. I think it's quite a legitimate question to ask: Is this abuse? Rather than jumping to "ABUSER!" Without more context, this sounds to me like the kind of behavior someone would see in a parent who is trying to abuse CPS to alienate their former spouse from the kids.
> 
> But I err on the side of parental discretion, and less on the side of the state in these matters. Again, I think a lot of this is going to be determined by the OPs circumstances.
> 
> OP you seem to have a problem with spanking in general. Does your W know and understand this? Is this a new development so far as telling the XW no to such behavior?


No, he doesn't get to control the babysitters but she is also obligated to ensure that her children are protected at all times. A record of multiple convictions for violent offenses doesn't exactly put this guy in line for an Angie's List Babysitter of The Year award.

As a parent and guardian he *does* have legal authority, and obligation, to ensure that his children are protected.

Are you a parent? Would you be OK with your kids coming home with bruises on them?

Spanking leaves red marks not bruises.


----------



## Kivlor

WonkyNinja said:


> No, he doesn't get to control the babysitters but she is also obligated to ensure that her children are protected at all times. A record of multiple convictions for violent offenses doesn't exactly put this guy in line for an Angie's List Babysitter of The Year award.
> 
> As a parent and guardian he *does* have legal authority, and obligation, to ensure that his children are protected.
> 
> Are you a parent? Would you be OK with your kids coming home with bruises on them?
> 
> Spanking leaves red marks not bruises.


Bruises don't bother me much. As I've repeatedly said, some kids bruise easily. 

No, I don't have any children, but I've raised several. And my experiences with those kids gives me tremendous trepidation at calling the police and CPS at every tiny turn. If OP's XW has any brain, she will weaponize the police and CPS against him as a response, and utilize that to neutralize this threat, then let it play out before a judge. He is a man and will be at a tremendous disadvantage if she does. 

Would I want this guy around my children? No. But getting divorced would put me in the position of having to accept that I don't get to choose who my XW dates / lives with / marries. I don't get to have everything I want when I have a broken home, because her home isn't my home. C'est la vie. 

Again, I am not saying this is all okay, I'm pointing out that the advice here is turning into a witch hunt. Everyone has determined that this is ABUSE! all off of the claim that there was "a detectable bruise". Which doesn't mean it wasn't abuse, but isn't exactly the term most people would use to describe abuse. 

Most of this can likely be resolved without involving courts, attorneys, the police, and CPS. But if OP doesn't want to use diplomacy or feels it will not be effective; well, that's his row to hoe.


----------



## Unicus

Kivlor said:


> He has no legal authority over who gets to discipline the kids while they are at XW's house. He does have legal authority over who does so in his home. She has the same limitations. She is Queen of her castle, just has he is King of his. Just because you wish it were different doesn't change it.
> 
> I'm really unmoved by the "Oh there was a 'detectable' bruise!" claim. Spankings often leave bruises. Hell, grabbing your kid's arm to keep them out of a dangerous situation leaves bruises. I think it's quite a legitimate question to ask: Is this abuse? Rather than jumping to "ABUSER!" Without more context, this sounds to me like the kind of behavior someone would see in a parent who is trying to abuse CPS to alienate their former spouse from the kids.


I have to disagree with this based on an understanding of the law as it pertains to these matters.

Claims of abuse aside..and I agree that often the other parent uses specious claims not so much as accurate descriptors but as a legal weapons, a boyfriend who leaves bruises on a child is guilty of assault, which is a class one felony. They do not have any legal standing to provide "Discipline". What this other person is doing is taking it upon himself to disregard the law and intervene in a way that not only violates the child, but can bring with it rather significant legal sanctions.

The OP should contact his lawyer, who needs to file some emergency motions.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Kivlor said:


> Bruises don't bother me much.


Wow.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

larry.gray said:


> See if you can find out who his parole officer is. He has minimal rights on parole. There may be restrictions on him about being around kids. If you report what happened to the parole officer that officer may investigate and possibly put him back in jail.


Great advice!

Get with your attorney ASAP and start proceedings to get the custody changed. It may be a wakeup call for her and light a fire under her ass to get him out of her life if the reality of losing her children is thrown in her face. 

She is a real piece of work, for sure. Even if she DOES get rid of him, you may want to look at getting the custody changed, because CLEARLY her children's best interest is NOT her priority!


----------



## karole

Considering his criminal history, have you checked the child sex offender registry in your state to make sure he isn't on it?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ThreeStrikes said:


> Wow.


Keep in mind he isn't a parent....


----------



## Kivlor

3Xnocharm said:


> Keep in mind he isn't a parent....





ThreeStrikes said:


> Wow.


I had a different upbringing. I'm of the school of thought that we all get bruises, we all get hurt and that one of the most important lessons to pass on to the next generation is that pain is temporary and often necessary. 

Like I said, I've raised several kids. 6 total. Day and night. Diapers and bottles. Schoolwork and play. Judge me if you like. I sincerely doubt you have the experience with as many children living in your home, under your care. 

I generally don't think spanking is that effective, but I recognize that it's common practice for most parents. And if it didn't leave a bruise, it wasn't much of a spanking, was it? 

But there are different degrees of "bruising" as well. Which is what I keep going back to. If it appeared abusive, I don't think the OP would have used the term "detectable". It would have been "terrible" or "big" or "dark" or "nasty" or any other of a thousand words that would describe something as being *abusive*. Maybe I'm wrong, I've certainly left it open for me to be so. The OP knows this situation better than I do, I'm just reading his story as he writes it on the interwebs.

I will say I find it pitiable that so many would classify a "detectable bruise" as abuse. It makes light of something very grave. I've been abused, and I'll tell you from experience this is a complete overstatement of the term. What entitled, effortless, fragile lives you must have lived to jump to such conclusions.


----------



## Surfer Joe

karole said:


> Considering his criminal history, have you checked the child sex offender registry in your state to make sure he isn't on it?


I did and he's not. Thank goodness. Don't need that, too!?


----------



## foolscotton3

Kivlor said:


> What entitled, effortless, fragile lives you must have lived to jump to such conclusions.


Sorry, but, I think it's the life of abuses, assaults, and other criminal convictions that caused us to jump to such conclusions.


Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


----------



## WonkyNinja

Kivlor said:


> I had a different upbringing. I'm of the school of thought that we all get bruises, we all get hurt and that one of the most important lessons to pass on to the next generation is that pain is temporary and often necessary.


We all did, but it isn't usually the adult inflicting them. Falling off your bike and finding that it hurts is not the same thing as the child's guardian pushing them off the bike and saying "see how much that hurt? Don't fall off".



Kivlor said:


> Like I said, I've raised several kids. 6 total. Day and night. Diapers and bottles. Schoolwork and play. Judge me if you like. I sincerely doubt you have the experience with as many children living in your home, under your care.
> 
> I generally don't think spanking is that effective, but I recognize that it's common practice for most parents. And if it didn't leave a bruise, it wasn't much of a spanking, was it?


Wow. Just wow. I can't even respond to that as I'd get banned. 



Kivlor said:


> But there are different degrees of "bruising" as well. Which is what I keep going back to. If it appeared abusive, I don't think the OP would have used the term "detectable". It would have been "terrible" or "big" or "dark" or "nasty" or any other of a thousand words that would describe something as being *abusive*. Maybe I'm wrong, I've certainly left it open for me to be so. The OP knows this situation better than I do, I'm just reading his story as he writes it on the interwebs.
> 
> I will say I find it pitiable that so many would classify a "detectable bruise" as abuse. It makes light of something very grave. I've been abused, and I'll tell you from experience this is a complete overstatement of the term. What entitled, effortless, fragile lives you must have lived to jump to such conclusions.


The fact that one person gets punched and the other beaten by a baseball bat doesn't make the punch irrelevant, they are both assault.

This is a 4yo girl we're talking about, she doesn't need to be told at this age to tough it out, she needs to be protected from an adult with a proven history of violence and lack of control.


----------



## Unicus

Kivlor said:


> I had a different upbringing. I'm of the school of thought that we all get bruises, we all get hurt and that one of the most important lessons to pass on to the next generation is that pain is temporary and often necessary.
> 
> Like I said, I've raised several kids. 6 total. Day and night. Diapers and bottles. Schoolwork and play. Judge me if you like. I sincerely doubt you have the experience with as many children living in your home, under your care.
> 
> I generally don't think spanking is that effective, but I recognize that it's common practice for most parents. And if it didn't leave a bruise, it wasn't much of a spanking, was it?
> 
> But there are different degrees of "bruising" as well. Which is what I keep going back to. If it appeared abusive, I don't think the OP would have used the term "detectable". It would have been "terrible" or "big" or "dark" or "nasty" or any other of a thousand words that would describe something as being *abusive*. Maybe I'm wrong, I've certainly left it open for me to be so. The OP knows this situation better than I do, I'm just reading his story as he writes it on the interwebs.
> 
> I will say I find it pitiable that so many would classify a "detectable bruise" as abuse. It makes light of something very grave. I've been abused, and I'll tell you from experience this is a complete overstatement of the term. What entitled, effortless, fragile lives you must have lived to jump to such conclusions.


Kiv, you're missing a very important fact: A boy friend has no legal standing to provide "Discipline". It's not a philosophical or theoretical question about bruises or the value of pain (!), but rather the laws that protect others from assault. 

And that assessment doesn't result from a life that's entitled, effortless, and certainly not fragile....just knowledgeable.


----------



## GusPolinski

Surfer Joe said:


> I did and he's not. Thank goodness. Don't need that, too!?


Be sure to check the registries of surrounding states as well.

Hell, make that all fifty states.


----------



## vi_bride04

GusPolinski said:


> Be sure to check the registries of surrounding states as well.
> 
> Hell, make that all fifty states.


Agreed!


----------



## farsidejunky

GusPolinski said:


> Be sure to check the registries of surrounding states as well.
> 
> Hell, make that all fifty states.


https://www.nsopw.gov/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Searches all 50 states. 

We used to have to use it for all recruits coming into the Army.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananapeel

You should establish with your XW that your kids are not to be around any felons (regardless of whether there is any suspicion of abuse going on). She is free to date whomever she wants, but the kids need to not be exposed to that risk or type of influence. That is a legitimate reason for the court to award you emergency full custody and have her do visits without her BF until the situation changes. 

My XWW knows if she pulled that sort of crap the kids would be gone before she could blink. That fear has kept her from making some stupid decisions and helped maintain a workable parenting relationship between us. I figure that whatever she does is her business and I stay completely out of it, until it involves my kids, then it is my business and if she doesn't make good choices then I will.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Bananapeel said:


> You should establish with your XW that your kids are not to be around any felons (regardless of whether there is any suspicion of abuse going on). She is free to date whomever she wants, but the kids need to not be exposed to that risk or type of influence. That is a legitimate reason for the court to award you emergency full custody and have her do visits without her BF until the situation changes.
> 
> My XWW knows if she pulled that sort of crap the kids would be gone before she could blink. That fear has kept her from making some stupid decisions and helped maintain a workable parenting relationship between us. I figure that whatever she does is her business and I stay completely out of it, until it involves my kids, then it is my business and if she doesn't make good choices then I will.


Unfortunately that sort of agreement has to be done before the divorce so that the rules are in the parenting plan and enforceable. 

The only way to change this, unless of course she voluntarily agrees, is to get a court order.

You don't get to enforce your own rules just because they make sense to you. In this case I would have thought that an emergency court order could be issued to override the parenting plan until the parenting plan can be updated formally.


----------



## Bananapeel

I specifically said "this is a legitimate reason for the COURT TO AWARD YOU EMERGENCY FULL CUSTODY..." which means go to court to get an emergency court order. I never said to act unilaterally in violation of the parenting plan without court authorization. If kids are being housed with a felon it is easy to get that court order since the courts will act in the kid's best interest. Although if I was truly and legitimately worried about my kid's safety I'd act first and hire a good lawyer to deal with the consequences later.


----------



## vi_bride04

Any updates?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

Yes, please let us know.


----------

