# Ladies feedback on respect



## COguy

Was discussing a situation that happened with a married girl friend of mine and was looking for other women's opinions.

Three married girls are at a concert without their husbands. They have bad seats and want to get into the VIP seating area. One of the security guys in the VIP area takes a liking to one of the married women. He says "Hey give me your number and I'll text you if I can get you VIP passes."

Her take was that there was nothing wrong with this because, "She would never cheat on her husband."

My take on this is that regardless of her intentions this was disrespectful to her husband because:

A) The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her
B) She encouraged it by continuing this kind of interaction where she benefited from point A
C) She gave him a method of communication with her that would certainly lead to a fishing expedition later on

Also, I'm assuming she wouldn't have been pleased if her husband gave his number to a lady security guard in exchange for special privileges.

What say you ladies of TAM?


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Yes, it was disrespectful because she knew perfectly well she was getting potentially special treatment based on sexual interest. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

that is intentionally playing with fire and frankly sad.


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## 225985

Just my asking to get into the VIP section they knew they were / would be selling sexual interest. They were leveraging their assets.


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## jld

COguy said:


> Was discussing a situation that happened with a married girl friend of mine and was looking for other women's opinions.
> 
> Three married girls are at a concert without their husbands. They have bad seats and want to get into the VIP seating area. One of the security guys in the VIP area takes a liking to one of the married women. He says "Hey give me your number and I'll text you if I can get you VIP passes."
> 
> Her take was that there was nothing wrong with this because, "She would never cheat on her husband."
> 
> My take on this is that regardless of her intentions this was disrespectful to her husband because:
> 
> A) The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her
> B) She encouraged it by continuing this kind of interaction where she benefited from point A
> C) She gave him a method of communication with her that would certainly lead to a fishing expedition later on
> 
> Also, I'm assuming she wouldn't have been pleased if her husband gave his number to a lady security guard in exchange for special privileges.
> 
> What say you ladies of TAM?


How about if she immediately texted or called her husband to tell him what happened?

Giving her number does not mean *she* is interested. Or not in anything other than those tickets.


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## EllisRedding

So giving out your number to someone who you know has a an interest in you, when you are already with someone else, is ok 

How about the idea that the H now knows some strange dude has his Ws phone number. I guess let's just ignore the possible safety concerns as well ...


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## Married but Happy

blueinbr said:


> Just my asking to get into the VIP section they knew they were / would be selling sexual interest. They were leveraging their assets.


Indeed. If they were guys, do you think this ploy would work? Of course not. They'd have to use different assets - such as money - to achieve the same goal. On the other hand, I think most women learn these flirting techniques to gain advantage and influence over men by the time they're knee- high to a grasshopper.


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## WonkyNinja

COguy said:


> Was discussing a situation that happened with a married girl friend of mine and was looking for other women's opinions.
> 
> Three married girls are at a concert without their husbands. They have bad seats and want to get into the VIP seating area. One of the security guys in the VIP area takes a liking to one of the married women. He says *"Hey give me your number and I'll text you if I can get you VIP passes."*
> 
> Her take was that there was nothing wrong with this because, "She would never cheat on her husband."
> 
> My take on this is that regardless of her intentions this was disrespectful to her husband because:
> 
> A) *The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her*
> B) She encouraged it by continuing this kind of interaction where she benefited from point A
> C) She gave him a method of communication with her that would certainly lead to a fishing expedition later on
> 
> Also, I'm assuming she wouldn't have been pleased if her husband gave his number to a lady security guard in exchange for special privileges.
> 
> What say you ladies of TAM?


WTF? How do you do from "I'll text you if I can get you in" to "The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her". 

It was a concert. What do you think they're going to do, have her bend over the VIP seat for a quickie and hope that no one notices?

If he rings her afterwards for a fishing expedition then just add him to the blocked numbers list and move on. He's not going to get an address from a mobile number.

This sounds like a H with some very serious trust issues in his wife.


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## VermisciousKnid

jld said:


> How about if she immediately texted or called her husband to tell him what happened?
> 
> Giving her number does not mean *she* is interested. Or not in anything other than those tickets.


If she isn't interested in knowing the guy better then she should be transparent and just say, "I want the tickets but there's no way me or my friends are going to give you anything for them."

If she isn't transparent then she knows she is bartering the possibility of sex for the tickets. That's leading the guy on or flirting or whatever you want to call it. That's lying to the guy and being disrespectful to her husband. 

It's probably an ego boost that she could do it, but it's sleazy that she would do it.


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## Satya

It's not just disrespectful to her husband IMO, but it's her using what she can to her advantage.

Not a really great sign. If they wanted VIP seats, they should have booked earlier and/or shelled out more money, like all those other people who got VIP seats.


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## lifeistooshort

Nope, that's a big fat no go.

I was at a bar with my gf last week and I wouldn't even let a guy buy me a drink, I just showed off my wedding ring.

You don't look for favors from other dudes when you're married.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

VermisciousKnid said:


> If she isn't interested in knowing the guy better then she should be transparent and just say, "I want the tickets but there's no way me or my friends are going to give you anything for them."
> 
> If she isn't transparent then she knows she is bartering the possibility of sex for the tickets. That's leading the guy on or flirting or whatever you want to call it. That's lying to the guy and being disrespectful to her husband.
> 
> It's probably an ego boost that she could do it, but it's sleazy that she would do it.


He is the one offering, right? But somehow she is the sleazy one? And who is saying this would lead to sex, anyway?

Again, she is telling her husband what is going on. If he does not have a problem with it, why should anyone else?


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## jld

WonkyNinja said:


> WTF? *How do you do from "I'll text you if I can get you in" to "The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her". *
> 
> It was a concert. What do you think they're going to do, have her bend over the VIP seat for a quickie and hope that no one notices?
> 
> If he rings her afterwards for a fishing expedition then just add him to the blocked numbers list and move on. He's not going to get an address from a mobile number.
> 
> This sounds like a H with some very serious trust issues in his wife.


I agree. Have you never talked to someone of either sex at some sort of venue, and they have offered to get some special advantage for you? 

For that matter, have you never worked somewhere where you had special privileges, and used them to help someone you enjoyed talking with? It is just a friendly thing to do, imo.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Is this how groupies get started?


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## jorgegene

lifeistooshort said:


> Nope, that's a big fat no go.
> 
> I was at a bar with my gf last week and I wouldn't even let a guy buy me a drink, I just showed off my wedding ring.
> 
> You don't look for favors from other dudes when you're married.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


triple like


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## lifeistooshort

jld said:


> I agree. Have you never talked to someone of either sex at some sort of venue, and they have offered to get some special advantage for you?
> 
> For that matter, have you never worked somewhere where you had special privileges, and used them to help someone you enjoyed talking with? It is just a friendly thing to do, imo.


To this point I do think you have to consider each case on its merit.

The guy at the bar trying to buy me a drink is much different then the guy I know from my old job who still works in my industry who texted me some professional info for a filing I was making, or the other guy from work who texted me because he'd said I could borrow his very expensive bike helmet for a triathlon I was going to do. 

Does my hb even need to know about those? He does know I borrowed the helmet but I doubt he cares about the professional info I got.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding

So basically, give out whatever personal information deemed necessary to get what you want to some random dude, just throw caution to the wind. Married or not, this is stupid, especially when you take into account the legitimate safety concerns for females.


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## jld

lifeistooshort said:


> To this point I do think you have to consider each case on its merit.
> 
> The guy at the bar trying to buy me a drink is much different then the guy I know from my old job who still works in my industry who texted me some professional info for a filing I was making, or the other guy from work who texted me because he'd said I could borrow his very expensive bike helmet for a triathlon I was going to do.
> 
> Does my hb even need to know about those? He does know I borrowed the helmet but I doubt he cares about the professional info I got.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am sure your H trusts you completely. He knows you are above reproach.


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## jld

EllisRedding said:


> So basically, give out whatever personal information deemed necessary to get what you want to some random dude, just throw caution to the wind. Married or not, this is stupid, especially when you take into account the legitimate safety concerns for females.


I am not saying I would do it, myself. I really do not like giving out my cell number to anyone who is not family or a close friend.

But to automatically assume there is some sort of cheating being suggested seems excessively fearful. At least imo.


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## tech-novelist

EllisRedding said:


> So giving out your number to someone who you know has a an interest in you, when you are already with someone else, is ok
> 
> How about the idea that the H now knows some strange dude has his Ws phone number. I guess let's just ignore the possible safety concerns as well ...


From the OP, "Three married girls are at a concert *without their husbands*." Which of course is much worse than if the husbands were there.


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## 225985

WonkyNinja said:


> WTF? How do you do from "I'll text you if I can get you in" to "The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her".
> 
> It was a concert. What do you think they're going to do, have her bend over the VIP seat for a quickie and hope that no one notices?
> 
> If he rings her afterwards for a fishing expedition then just add him to the blocked numbers list and move on. He's not going to get an address from a mobile number.
> 
> This sounds like a H with some very serious trust issues in his wife.


Re-read the initial post. It was the married girl friend (not OP) that was relaying the story, that the security guy took a liking to one of the married women. That is the part that sets this thread off in that direction.

He could have just said come back in a few minutes. Would the security guy have asked for the number if it was three guys?

I am sure most betrayed guys would have believed "She would never cheat on her husband", right before they filed for divorce.

BTW, OP did not say if the three actually got into the VIP section.


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## EllisRedding

jld said:


> I am not saying I would do it, myself. I really do not like giving out my cell number to anyone who is not family or a close friend.
> 
> But to automatically assume there is some sort of cheating being suggested seems excessively fearful. At least imo.


My post that you replied to had nothing to do with any assumptions about cheating. I am focusing on the stupidity in throwing caution to the wind (i.e. safety/security) just so you could get a better seat. As @tech-novelist pointed out as well, their Hs weren't even there, so just to add some extra security concerns.


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## jld

I just reread the OP, changing out the females for the males.

If Dug called me and said he had a chance to get these tickets for him and his friends, I would be happy for him. The idea of cheating would not even enter my mind.


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## jld

EllisRedding said:


> My post that you replied to had nothing to do with any assumptions about cheating. I am focusing on the stupidity in throwing caution to the wind (i.e. safety/security) just so you could get a better seat. As @tech-novelist pointed out as well, their Hs weren't even there, so just to add some extra security concerns.


And I responded to that, saying that I am not saying I would do it myself. Iow, I get the point about security. 

And if I got any vibe that it was anything other than a completely friendly gesture, I would scoot away from that.


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## EllisRedding

jld said:


> And I responded to that, saying that I am not saying I would not do it myself. Iow, I get the point about security.
> 
> And if I got any vibe that it was anything other than a completely friendly gesture, I would scoot away from that.


You responded to that be adding in a separate blurb about cheating which was not in relation to my post :wink2: Just wanted to clarify as I am not one making an assumption that cheating will occur.


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## jld

EllisRedding said:


> You responded to that be adding in a separate blurb about cheating which was not in relation to my post :wink2: Just wanted to clarify as *I am not one making an assumption that cheating will occur*.


Okay, glad to hear it. Thanks for clarifying.


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## bluezone

I agree with the majority of other posters that this is not a good idea. 

You can say that it's only to get the seats, blah blah blah. 

The fact that you are giving your cellphone number to someone of the opposite sex (who you are already aware finds you attractive) is opening the door to issues, IMHO. You are basically letting him know that you might be available in the future...


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## WonkyNinja

lifeistooshort said:


> To this point I do think you have to consider each case on its merit.
> 
> *The guy at the bar trying to buy me a drink is much *different then the guy I know from my old job who still works in my industry who texted me some professional info for a filing I was making, or the other guy from work who texted me because he'd said I could borrow his very expensive bike helmet for a triathlon I was going to do.
> 
> Does my hb even need to know about those? He does know I borrowed the helmet but I doubt he cares about the professional info I got.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not the same thing. He said "I'll text you if I can get you in [the VIP area". 

It happens all the time. The cute girls get to bypass the line into the nightclub by smiling at the bouncer. That doesn't mean that they are all available to the bouncer.


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## COguy

To those who don't think it's a big deal. Are you also OK accepting free drinks when you are out? I view these as similar behaviors. Exchanging Sexual appeal for free stuff. To me it's not about whether you would or wouldn't cheat, I find it manipulative and disrespectful to your partner.

I would really want my SO to shut downstuff like that.


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## WonkyNinja

EllisRedding said:


> So basically, give out *whatever personal information deemed necessary* to get what you want to some random dude, just *throw caution to the wind*. Married or not, this is stupid, especially when you take into account the legitimate safety concerns for females.


This is a bit of an overreaction to say the least. A mobile phone number is usually address untraceable. Many people don't even live in the area code of the mobile number any more.



tech-novelist said:


> From the OP, "Three married girls are at a concert *without their husbands*." Which of course is much worse than if the husbands were there.


Marriage is a relationship not a custodial sentence. Unless you live under extremely prohibitive laws, in which case they probably wouldn't have their own phones either, married women are allowed to go out without their husbands. If you can't trust your spouse out alone then there are much bigger problems in the relationship than seating at a concert. 



blueinbr said:


> Re-read the initial post. It was the married girl friend (not OP) that was relaying the story, that the security guy took a liking to one of the married women. That is the part that sets this thread off in that direction.
> 
> He could have just said come back in a few minutes. Would the security guy have asked for the number if it was three guys?
> 
> *I am sure most betrayed guys would have believed "She would never cheat on her husband", right before they filed for divorce.*
> 
> BTW, OP did not say if the three actually got into the VIP section.


Most people swimming in the sea don't think they'll get bitten by a shark. Out of the millions and millions who do every year only a very small handful are wrong, but that doesn't mean that no one should swim in the sea. Yes, it can happen. But so can a whole range of other bad things that normally don't.


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## WonkyNinja

bluezone said:


> I agree with the majority of other posters that this is not a good idea.
> 
> You can say that it's only to get the seats, blah blah blah.
> 
> The fact that you are giving someone of the opposite sex (who you are already aware finds you attractive) is opening the door to issues, IMHO. *You are basically letting him know that you might be available in the future*...


How ridiculous. 

There was nothing in the post that even suggested letting him know they were available. This is almost rape culture thinking, "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex."


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## 225985

WonkyNinja said:


> Most people swimming in the sea don't think they'll get bitten by a shark. Out of the millions and millions who do every year only a very small handful are wrong, but that doesn't mean that no one should swim in the sea. Yes, it can happen. But so can a whole range of other bad things that normally don't.


I think the incident rate of infidelity is a little bit higher than the rate of shark bites. :|

I don't know anyone who has been bitten by a shark. I know far too many who have cheated or been cheated on. Almost none of them believed it would happen to them.

It not only "can happen", it DOES HAPPEN.


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## VermisciousKnid

WonkyNinja said:


> How ridiculous.
> 
> There was nothing in the post that even suggested letting him know they were available. This is almost rape culture thinking, "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex."


I work with a guy whose approach to finding sex was to approach every woman in the club and simply ask, "Wanna f*ck?" until he received a yes or ran out of women. He recognized that success was primarily a matter of access to a large number of women drinking alcohol. It worked pretty well for him. 

Has nothing at all to do with "rape culture".


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## bluezone

WonkyNinja said:


> How ridiculous.
> 
> There was nothing in the post that even suggested letting him know they were available. This is almost rape culture thinking, "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex."


Wonky I didn't say that her giving out her cell suggested she wants sex. I guess I should have worded it differently? IMHO it just suggests to the guy that there might be an opening for some type of communication going forward. It's one thing to smile at the guy...it's a completely different thing to give out your phone number.


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## FeministInPink

Is the behavior, in the scenario as posed by the OP, ok/acceptable?

It's a grey area, and really depends on the husband and wife in question, the nature of their relationship, and their individual characters.

Personally, I would hope that my husband/partner would trust me enough to not have a problem with this, because I know myself. I'm not going to cheat. I'm not going to even allow that to be a possibility. And my husband/partner should know me well enough to know this about me. (And vice versa, if the roles were reversed.) He would also know that I would tell him all about it when I got home from the concert.

But... that doesn't work for everyone. Some people might need to be kept on a tighter leash; maybe their husbands NEED to mate guard, because they know their wives aren't as trustworthy, or who maybe make bad decisions. Or maybe the husband has some emotional baggage, some betrayal in his past, so he needs to have a little more control to feel secure in the relationship.

I don't think this can be reduced to a black/white, right/wrong question.


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## NobodySpecial

Fake number. Done. Though I wouldn't do it.


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## heartsbeating

COguy said:


> To those who don't think it's a big deal. Are you also OK accepting free drinks when you are out? I view these as similar behaviors. Exchanging Sexual appeal for free stuff. To me it's not about whether you would or wouldn't cheat, I find it manipulative and disrespectful to your partner.
> 
> I would really want my SO to shut downstuff like that.


With the original question, it's not something I would do.

As for accepting drinks, I'm rarely in that scenario however earlier this year I was visiting a friend. She's a single parent keen to have a carefree weekend. We went to dinner, had a few drinks; she had fun sharing her old stomping ground with me. At the karaoke bar, we were offered drinks but declined, went to the bar to get our own. He came up, told the girl behind the bar that our drinks were to be put on his tab 'whatever they want..' I still went to pay for my wine and she told me it was on the house. I suspect he was a promoter, owner or crowd starter. Nothing untoward happened, we mixed with the crowd, a good vibe with the karaoke lot. My single friend talked to him a good part of the night. I mostly cheered the singers. As we were leaving, he offered to hail a taxi for us 'to get us back safely'. I declined, told him we'd get our own taxi (and he didn't need to know where we were heading). We left, he didn't ask for friend's number. She was pleased to just have a relaxed, fun night out. I had a blast too!

Hubs asked if we'd been hit on / offered drinks. I told him. He said he wasn't surprised; thought I didn't need to accept it but wasn't a big deal to him either. I'd agree with that - I didn't need it (and perhaps wouldn't another time) but wasn't a big deal either.


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## Faithful Wife

COguy said:


> To those who don't think it's a big deal. Are you also OK accepting free drinks when you are out? I view these as similar behaviors. Exchanging Sexual appeal for free stuff. To me it's not about whether you would or wouldn't cheat, I find it manipulative and disrespectful to your partner.
> 
> I would really want my SO to shut downstuff like that.


But it's just Girl Game. Just keeping you on your toes, the same way dread game works. We don't really have to try or create fake circumstances though.

Tra la la...


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## vel

If her husband has no problem with it, then there's no problem.


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## Spotthedeaddog

WonkyNinja said:


> How ridiculous.
> 
> There was nothing in the post that even suggested letting him know they were available. This is almost rape culture thinking, "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex."


Actually it goes the other way. 
"She spoke to me therefore she wants sex" is not uncommon with single men, and for good reason. And it is _hardly_ rape culture, except for those who are man haters.

Why "for good reason". Because for a single man who likes or wants heterosexual sex, he's going to have to approach someone who has supply, and he can't afford to waste too much limited resource (money, time) on someone who isn't interested.

Someone who won't talk to him - clearly not interested.

:. Someone who will talk to him is clearly a candidate for step two: finding out if they like each other (something that is hardly possible with someone who doesn't want to talk to him).

So statistically speaking someone who spoke to him (gave him attention) is 100% more likely to want sex with him, when compared to someone unwilling to give him time/speech.


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## vel

Well he was offering tickets, he knows she's not giving him the number just for his boyish good looks...


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## NextTimeAround

vel said:


> Well he was offering tickets, he knows she's not giving him the number just for his boyish good looks...


Agreed. If my husband got something with a wink and a smile, it would not bother me. If that person had assumed more payback than that, well, I would expect him to deal with it swiftly. That would be the moment when I would contemplate whether I was being respected or not.

So yes, if I felt safe, I would give my cellphone number if VIP tickets were in the offing. One thing is certain, it is easier to find info on someone with an e-mail address than with a cellphone number.

If my husband and I continued to be incorrect when sizing up people, then we would stop doing stuff like that.


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## Begin again

Xenote said:


> that is intentionally playing with fire and frankly sad.


Totally disagree. I would have done the same as she did, then immediately told my husband. I don't cheat and I'm totally open with him. The guy offering VIP tickets to a woman who he knows is married is the sad one. I'd be sure to tell him up front I was married. And I can shut down any man who attempt a to make a pass at me when I've already let him know I'm in a relationship. Every woman should know how to do this and do it quickly.

A woman can't use her sexuality once she's married? Does this apply to men, too? 

My husband always knew I'd never cheat, and he felt confident in that fact. It's the people who do this and DON'T tell their spouse that you should worry about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

Begin again said:


> Totally disagree. I would have done the same as she did, then immediately told my husband. I don't cheat and I'm totally open with him. The guy offering VIP tickets to a woman who he knows is married is the sad one. I'd be sure to tell him up front I was married. And I can shut down any man who attempt a to make a pass at me when I've already let him know I'm in a relationship. Every woman should know how to do this and do it quickly.
> 
> A woman can't use her sexuality once she's married? Does this apply to men, too?
> 
> My husband always knew I'd never cheat, and he felt confident in that fact. It's the people who do this and DON'T tell their spouse that you should worry about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So are you saying that its okay to use your looks, your outfits, your sexuality to get what you want, is that what i should teach my daughters, not to use your brains but to use their sexuality as a mean to gain access to events or places...regardless of the outcome...that is pathetic and sad.


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## WonkyNinja

spotthedeaddog said:


> Actually it goes the other way.
> "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex" is not uncommon with single men, and for good reason. And it is _hardly_ rape culture, except for those who are man haters.
> 
> Why "for good reason". Because for a single man who likes or wants heterosexual sex, he's going to have to approach someone who has supply, and he can't afford to waste too much limited resource (money, time) on someone who isn't interested.
> 
> Someone who won't talk to him - clearly not interested.
> 
> :. Someone who will talk to him is clearly a candidate for step two: finding out if they like each other (something that is hardly possible with someone who doesn't want to talk to him).
> 
> So statistically speaking someone who spoke to him (gave him attention) is 100% more likely to want sex with him, when compared to someone unwilling to give him time/speech.


The example you gave is exactly 'rape culture' and I'm a man, not a man hater.

A woman giving her phone number for a specific purpose is not more likely to be available for sex than any other woman except in a twisted mind. 

If she gives her number to a male pharmacist to text her when her prescription is ready then that is the only reason he has her number. 

This is the same reason that schools and colleges give young women lectures on how not to get raped. Don't walk alone, don't dress in light clothing etc. etc. The problem isn't how the women dress it's the men who assume that she is dressed like that because she is "wanting it" but don't have the courage to ask, or the personality that she might want. 

Assuming that she didn't rub the bouncers arm and say something like "my H is out of town next week, call me and we can hook up" she gave her number so that he could text her if he could get her into the VIP area. 

Any other assumption is his problem and the solution isn't to tell her how she should behave, it's to tell men that make completely unjustified assumptions. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Begin again

Xenote said:


> So are you saying that its okay to use your looks, your outfits, your sexuality to get what you want, is that what i should teach my daughters, not to use your brains but to use their sexuality as a mean to gain access to events or places...regardless of the outcome...that is pathetic and sad.


I live in the real world, where women wear high heels and makeup to a job interview for a reason. You don't see frumpy women getting promotions very often. High heels and makeup enhance a woman's beauty - that's the purpose. It's life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround

spotthedeaddog said:


> Actually it goes the other way.
> "She spoke to me therefore she wants sex" is not uncommon with single men, and for good reason. And it is _hardly_ rape culture, except for those who are man haters.
> 
> Why "for good reason". Because for a single man who likes or wants heterosexual sex, he's going to have to approach someone who has supply, and he can't afford to waste too much limited resource (money, time) on someone who isn't interested.
> 
> Someone who won't talk to him - clearly not interested.
> 
> :. Someone who will talk to him is clearly a candidate for step two: finding out if they like each other (something that is hardly possible with someone who doesn't want to talk to him).
> 
> So statistically speaking someone who spoke to him (gave him attention) is 100% more likely to want sex with him, when compared to someone unwilling to give him time/speech.


No wonderre advise to wait until the guy approaches first.


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## Lostinthought61

Begin again said:


> I live in the real world, where women wear high heels and makeup to a job interview for a reason. You don't see frumpy women getting promotions very often. High heels and makeup enhance a woman's beauty - that's the purpose. It's life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And apparently shallowness as well.

What I find most alarming from your words is that if they had come from me, a man, I would have countless of women calling me a sexist, and rightly so. But coming from you makes it okay? That is was I call hypocrisy.


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## *Deidre*

It was disrespectful to her husband. And he won't be getting her anything, is my guess. lol He just wanted her number.


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## 2ntnuf

jld said:


> He is the one offering, right? But somehow she is the sleazy one? And who is saying this would lead to sex, anyway?
> 
> Again, she is telling her husband what is going on. If he does not have a problem with it, why should anyone else?


Anyone who agrees with this, 

If the husband did care that she gave her number to someone in partial barter for VIP tickets, what would be an expected response? What would be appropriate? How should he handle it?

I think he should monitor her calls and VAR her car, then, he can be certain if she accepted the call and what she was willing to offer. She may not have intended to give him sex, but maybe just a bj or hj. That isn't sex, right?


----------



## tech-novelist

Begin again said:


> Totally disagree. I would have done the same as she did, then immediately told my husband. I don't cheat and I'm totally open with him. The guy offering VIP tickets to a woman who he knows is married is the sad one. I'd be sure to tell him up front I was married. And I can shut down any man who attempt a to make a pass at me when I've already let him know I'm in a relationship. Every woman should know how to do this and do it quickly.
> 
> A woman can't use her sexuality once she's married? Does this apply to men, too?


80% of men can't "use their sexuality" at all, married or single.

The other 20% shouldn't do it once they are married.


----------



## tech-novelist

WonkyNinja said:


> The example you gave is exactly 'rape culture' and I'm a man, not a man hater.
> 
> A woman giving her phone number for a specific purpose is not more likely to be available for sex than any other woman except in a twisted mind.
> 
> If she gives her number to a male pharmacist to text her when her prescription is ready then that is the only reason he has her number.
> 
> This is the same reason that schools and colleges give young women lectures on how not to get raped. Don't walk alone, don't dress in light clothing etc. etc. The problem isn't how the women dress it's the men who assume that she is dressed like that because she is "wanting it" but don't have the courage to ask, or the personality that she might want.


Don't you know it's misogynistic to tell women not to dress in a provocative way? People have gotten in a lot of trouble for that! E.g., https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/06/****walking-policeman-talk-clothing


----------



## *Deidre*

What's interesting to note, are the comments stating ''I would never cheat, and my SO knows I'd never cheat.'' Why are there so many infidelity stories on here, then? No one wakes up, stretches and says ''I'm going to cheat today!'' lol 

Most things start with a phone number, flirting, Facebook ''innocent'' conversations, business lunches, etc...this is how nearly every thread on here starts when the betrayed spouse or the wayward spouse tells their stories. Not saying giving your number out means you will likely cheat, but you open the door to what the other person might have in mind. And then when she realizes that most likely he can't do anything for her, but he starts texting her ''good morning beautiful'' messages, etc...she may take the bait, when her husband and her just had a fight. That is how many affairs start.


----------



## nirvana

A lot of women, both married and not use womanly wiles to get an advantage at work. This is a known thing and no one can deny. Women are treated better, there is always someone wanting to be a knight in shining armor. Not everyone does it to get sex, but many do it for the thrill of flirting.


----------



## 2ntnuf

There is no worry and lots of trust when one is trustworthy. Offering a phone number, whether real or fake, is not an action that proves trustworthiness. 

Asking someone to trust you, or concluding they don't, by their lack of trust is really pointing a finger at the wrong person. You should be looking in a mirror when you say that. You don't really love your husband, or wife in those cases that apply.


----------



## *Deidre*

...........


----------



## 2ntnuf

.................


----------



## *Deidre*

............


----------



## 2ntnuf

................


----------



## *Deidre*

2ntnuf said:


> Without all of this other stuff being removed, it makes no sense removing what you asked. What do you suggest?
> 
> There will be a time limit and then I will replace the text.


Thx for deleting it, and I deleted my replies that followed.


----------



## 2ntnuf

*Deidre* said:


> Thx for deleting it, and I deleted my replies that followed.


I did as well, and will keep in mind what you have made me aware of here, in future threads. Please do the same.


----------



## cj48060

Not cool at all. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre*

2ntnuf said:


> I did as well, and will keep in mind what you have made me aware of here, in future threads. Please do the same.


I will keep in mind that you have made me aware that your tagging posters is a form of insulting them.


----------



## 2ntnuf

*Deidre* said:


> I will keep in mind that you have made me aware that your tagging posters is a form of insulting them.


Insulting you? How is telling you that I hope you find a man worthy of you insulting? Here is the text: Are there many men out there who are really worthy of a good woman? I doubt it.* I hope you find one who will love you and who you will love for who you both are, and not who he or you want yourselves to be perceived, @*Deidre*. 
*


ps.: That was supposed to be a compliment. I was saying you are a good woman by quite a few posts I've happened upon. 

Saying I hope you find a man who will love you for who you are is insulting, how? 

Saying I hope you don't find someone who loves you for who he perceives you to be is a hope that he will not judge you by your outward appearance, whether good or bad(I do not know), but to see who you are inside, because that person seems like a really good woman. 

Insulting? Not cool? Get a grip.


----------



## 2ntnuf

cj48060 said:


> Not cool at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What isn't cool?


----------



## *Deidre*

2ntnuf said:


> Insulting you? How is telling you that I hope you find a man worthy of you insulting? Here is the text: Are there many men out there who are really worthy of a good woman? I doubt it I hope you find one who will love you and who you will love for who you both are, *and not who he or you want yourselves to be perceived*, @*Deidre*.
> [/B]


The bolded part, I don't understand.  It's okay, let's just let it go. We're derailing the topic. If you meant well, then thank you.


----------



## 2ntnuf

*Deidre* said:


> The bolded part, I don't understand.  It's okay, let's just let it go. We're derailing the topic. If you meant well, then thank you.


It is explained below in underlined text.



2ntnuf said:


> Insulting you? How is telling you that I hope you find a man worthy of you insulting? Here is the text: Are there many men out there who are really worthy of a good woman? I doubt it.* I hope you find one who will love you and who you will love for who you both are, and not who he or you want yourselves to be perceived, @*Deidre*.
> *
> 
> 
> ps.: That was supposed to be a compliment. I was saying you are a good woman by quite a few posts I've happened upon.
> 
> Saying I hope you find a man who will love you for who you are is insulting, how?
> 
> Saying I hope you don't find someone who loves you for who he perceives you to be is a hope that he will not judge you by your outward appearance, whether good or bad(I do not know), but to see who you are inside, because that person seems like a really good woman.
> 
> Insulting? Not cool? Get a grip.


----------



## 2ntnuf

cj48060 said:


> Not cool at all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This is a chicken sh!t post. Crawl back in the hole you came out of.


----------



## *Deidre*

2ntnuf said:


> It is explained below in underlined text.


I see what you meant, now. It didn't read that way, Idk why. Thank you.


----------



## WonkyNinja

tech-novelist said:


> Don't you know it's misogynistic to tell women not to dress in a provocative way? People have gotten in a lot of trouble for that! E.g., https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/06/****walking-policeman-talk-clothing


Yes, that's my whole point. The problem isn't how a woman dresses, the problem is that some guy assumes that because she dresses in a specific way that he can then interpret that however he wants. The solution isn't to tell women how they must behave to avoid being raped it's to stop men raping them, and if does happen protect the public at large and put the b*****d in jail; regardless of whether or not he's an athlete from the right kind of family.

In this post the problem isn't that she gave her phone number so someone could text her if he could get her seated in a better area it's that some people assume that when she gives someone her phone number she is making herself available to him. That is misogynistic.


----------



## WonkyNinja

2ntnuf said:


> Anyone who agrees with this,
> 
> If the husband did care that *she gave her number to someone in partial barter for VIP tickets*, what would be an expected response? What would be appropriate? How should he handle it?
> 
> I think he should monitor her calls and VAR her car, then, he can be certain if she accepted the call and what she was willing to offer. She may not have intended to give him sex, but maybe just a bj or hj. That isn't sex, right?


Read the original post and stop making this into something it never was. 

She gave the guy her number so he could text her if he could get them seats in the VIP area. That was it.

I don't know if you've been to many concerts but shouting "I can get you those seats" across the venue doesn't usually work well. a) it p***es off people who aren't getting priority treatment and b) it's too loud to be heard anyway. Never once did the OP suggest that they had offered any type of sexual favor for the seats, that is all conjecture from the TAM misogynists.


----------



## WonkyNinja

*Deidre* said:


> What's interesting to note, are the comments stating ''I would never cheat, and my SO knows I'd never cheat.'' Why are there so many infidelity stories on here, then? No one wakes up, stretches and says ''I'm going to cheat today!'' lol


Because this is a forum very heavily dominated by people who have been cheated on, or have cheated and regret doing so. It's a bit like going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and concluding that the majority of people that go to a bar end up addicted to alcohol.



*Deidre* said:


> Most things start with a phone number, flirting, Facebook ''innocent'' conversations, business lunches, etc...this is how nearly every thread on here starts when the betrayed spouse or the wayward spouse tells their stories. Not saying giving your number out means you will likely cheat, but you open the door to what the other person might have in mind. And then when she realizes that most likely he can't do anything for her, but he starts texting her ''good morning beautiful'' messages, etc...she may take the bait, when her husband and her just had a fight. That is how many affairs start.


I don't believe that a strong marriage gets derailed by a stranger texting "good morning beautiful" to a spouse. The marriage has to be in a pretty dire situation for that to occur, even if one partner doesn't recognize it. An affair has to start somehow and can only happen when you want one.

The vast majority of married people have hundreds of personal interactions every day outside of home without any suggestion of straying.


----------



## 2ntnuf

WonkyNinja said:


> Read the original post and stop making this into something it never was.
> 
> She gave the guy her number so he could text her if he could get them seats in the VIP area. That was it.
> 
> I don't know if you've been to many concerts but shouting "I can get you those seats" across the venue doesn't usually work well. a) it p***es off people who aren't getting priority treatment and b) it's too loud to be heard anyway. Never once did the OP suggest that they had offered any type of sexual favor for the seats, that is all conjecture from the TAM misogynists.


What then, would a phone number do for the man? Why would he accept it? What do you think he was thinking? Do you think, if she gave him her actual phone number, that she thought he was just going to call and chit chat about how to make chili, or maybe the weather? Hey, they are just friends, right? Why would anyone suspect a thing like that when she wasn't paying for them and they are expensive? Do you think he was just a very kind soul who felt bad? Maybe they were related? Yeah, that's more likely. They were related, brother and sister, and didn't know they would be at this concert. 

Come on. Mysogengy, I can't even spell it, isn't even worth mentioning.

Maybe you should speak more about objectification? Cause that's likely why they got the tickets, unless, they were brother and sister. Even the women of TAM were talking about it.

Mysogendy.....yeah.........duh


----------



## xgyrlx

It's just like taking a drink from a stranger at the bar and then never seeing them again lol I don't see anything wrong with this. Especially if there was no flirting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WonkyNinja

COguy said:


> Was discussing a situation that happened with a married girl friend of mine and was looking for other women's opinions.
> 
> Three married girls are at a concert without their husbands. *They have bad seats and want to get into the VIP seating area.* One of the security guys in the VIP area takes a liking to one of the married women. He says *"Hey give me your number and I'll text you if I can get you VIP passes."*
> 
> Her take was that there was nothing wrong with this because, "She would never cheat on her husband."
> 
> My take on this is that regardless of her intentions this was disrespectful to her husband because:
> 
> A) The guy was clearly interested in sleeping with her
> B) She encouraged it by continuing this kind of interaction where she benefited from point A
> C) She gave him a method of communication with her that would certainly lead to a fishing expedition later on
> 
> Also, I'm assuming she wouldn't have been pleased if her husband gave his number to a lady security guard in exchange for special privileges.
> 
> What say you ladies of TAM?


Her phone number is the only thing that would enable him to send her a text message if he could get them into the VIP seating. I suppose he could try guessing the right number but he'd be there a long time and, as I said before, shouting across a concert venue doesn't tend to be very successful.



2ntnuf said:


> Anyone who agrees with this,
> 
> If the husband did care that she gave her number to someone in *partial barter for VIP tickets*, what would be an expected response? What would be appropriate? How should he handle it?
> 
> I think he should monitor her calls and VAR her car, then, he can be certain if she accepted the call and what she was willing to offer. *She may not have intended to give him sex, but maybe just a bj or hj.* That isn't sex, right?


Nope. Never mentioned. You were the one that assumed she was bartering sex for the seats. Totally your own thinking.



2ntnuf said:


> *What then, would a phone number do for the man?* Why would he accept it? What do you think he was thinking? Do you think, if she gave him her actual phone number, that she thought he was just going to call and chit chat about how to make chili, or maybe the weather? Hey, they are just friends, right? Why would anyone suspect a thing like that when she wasn't paying for them and they are expensive? Do you think he was just a very kind soul who felt bad? Maybe they were related? Yeah, that's more likely. They were related, brother and sister, and didn't know they would be at this concert.


It would enable him to send the text message that she hoped he would send. I suppose, since shouting wouldn't work, he could have tried semaphore or morse code but he probably didn't have his flags or flashing searchlight handy.

I don't think she expected him to call at all, never mind to discuss chilli or the weather. She hoped he might text about the seats.

No mention of them being friends or brother and sister, anywhere. They were trying to talk their way into better seats like many many others have done at concerts before. If this was a bunch of guys trying to talk their way into a box at an NFL game would you be assuming they had turned gay?



2ntnuf said:


> Come on. Mysogengy, I can't even spell it, isn't even worth mentioning.
> 
> Maybe you should speak more about objectification? Cause that's likely why they got the tickets, unless, they were brother and sister. Even the women of TAM were talking about it.
> 
> Mysogendy.....yeah.........duh


The word is misogyny. Your phone or browser will spell it properly for you.

And I still think that you taking the initial post and making the assumption that they intended to trade sex for the seats pretty well shows that you practice it, even if you have trouble with the spelling.


----------



## WonkyNinja

VermisciousKnid said:


> I work with a guy whose approach to finding sex was to approach every woman in the club and simply ask, "Wanna f*ck?" until he received a yes or ran out of women. He recognized that success was primarily a matter of access to a large number of women drinking alcohol. It worked pretty well for him.
> 
> Has nothing at all to do with "rape culture".


If he is asking them and then one says "Yes" then that's not rape, it's consent.

If he is picking girls that are drunk then that is rape because she was unable to consent.

Neither one has anything to do with "rape culture".


----------



## 2ntnuf

WonkyNinja said:


> Her phone number is the only thing that would enable him to send her a text message if he could get them into the VIP seating. I suppose he could try guessing the right number but he'd be there a long time and, as I said before, shouting across a concert venue doesn't tend to be very successful.


I don't give strangers my phone number. I believe one of the women here stated that she probably gave a wrong number. What do you make of that? 

Misandry? That's exactly what it is. Let me prove it to you, below. 





WonkyNinja said:


> Nope. Never mentioned. You were the one that assumed she was bartering sex for the seats. Totally your own thinking.


Are you saying it's not possible that she would want those very expensive seats so badly that she would give a stranger her phone number, yet not be willing to go further to get what she wanted? In my mind, a hj or bj is sex. Do you believe they are sex? 

I hope you are not as naïve as you seem. There are a myriad of possibilities here, as to how she might have been able to obtain seats like these. Your thoughts are not any more correct than anyone else's. You should tone down the arrogance, judgment and misandry. This is hypothetical. 





WonkyNinja said:


> It would enable him to send the text message that she hoped he would send. I suppose, since shouting wouldn't work, he could have tried semaphore or morse code but he probably didn't have his flags or flashing searchlight handy.



Picture a large man with a long white beard, white hair and a big hard belly with both hands on it, heartily laughing. While he laughs, his belly shakes up and down and his whole body is moved with it. It sort of sounds like this, "OH, Ho ho ho ho ho"!





WonkyNinja said:


> I don't think she expected him to call at all, never mind to discuss chilli or the weather. She hoped he might text about the seats.


She might, but it's unlikely. Tell me. Why would he bother to go to all that trouble for someone he doesn't know? Why would he use his break or lunch to go and get the ticket? Do you think he is just a good soul that loves women so much he would do anything for them and expect nothing in return? Do you believe in Santa Claus? He'll be coming soon. Did you write him a letter?





WonkyNinja said:


> No mention of them being friends or brother and sister, anywhere. They were trying to talk their way into better seats like many many others have done at concerts before. If this was a bunch of guys trying to talk their way into a box at an NFL game would you be assuming they had turned gay?



How does one "talk" their way into way better seats that cost much more? Many many others have had to do more than talk to get those tickets. 

Guys turned gay? Why would that matter? If heterosexual, I'd assume they had to pay for them, but weren't sure there were any available. If gay, I would assume they either paid for them or bartered for them. 

And there is your misandry and homophobia. You immediately consider they might be gay. I never mentioned these women might be lesbians because it didn't occur to me. It didn't matter. Could homosexual women offer sex in barter for something they wanted badly? Sure, and so could men. 

Why did you go there? Are you a homophobic misandrist or just not very intelligent? 





WonkyNinja said:


> The word is misogyny. Your phone or browser will spell it properly for you.



Are you sure I need to look it up? 





WonkyNinja said:


> And I still think that you taking the initial post and making the assumption that they intended to trade sex for the seats pretty well shows that you practice it, even if you have trouble with the spelling.


Well, thank you for your opinion. If you would like to buy a bridge, I've got one for sale. How about posting your phone number and address and we can get together to talk about that bridge. Do you have any money? What do you do for a living? Can you get a loan? It may be expensive, but you can set up a toll both and get your money back.


----------



## NextTimeAround

> I don't give strangers my phone number. I believe one of the women here stated that she probably gave a wrong number. What do you make of that?


This doesn't make any sense. The whole point of giving out the cellphone number is to receive info that (correctly) leads to some freebies. If you give out a wrong phone number, you won't receive the needed info.


----------



## WonkyNinja

NobodySpecial said:


> Fake number. Done. Though I wouldn't do it.





2ntnuf said:


> I don't give strangers my phone number. I believe one of the women here stated that she probably gave a wrong number. What do you make of that?


No @NobodySpecial suggested giving someone a fake number as a way out of the situation, but also said that she wouldn't do it. Never even suggested that the woman probably had done. 

If they had given a fake number then there would have been zero possibility of getting into the VIP seats which was the whole object.



2ntnuf said:


> Misandry? That's exactly what it is. Let me prove it to you, below.


How do you _prove_ based solely upon your own supposition? 



2ntnuf said:


> Are you saying it's not possible that she would want those very expensive seats so badly that she would give a stranger her phone number, yet not be willing to go further to get what she wanted? In my mind, a hj or bj is sex. Do you believe they are sex?


Is it possible, then yes anything is possible but you seem to assume that because it is possible it is likely. It's possible for me to win the Powerball lottery but extermely unlikely.

For you to suggest, based upon absolutely nothing, that if a woman wants something she would therefore be willing to go further to get it is insulting in the extreme. I have to assume you mean give sexual favors. I do agree that a hj or bj is sex and for a married person is cheating but nothing in the OP even suggested that as a remote possibility. That was all in your imagination which you then took forward to assume as probability. 



2ntnuf said:


> I hope you are not as naïve as you seem. There are a myriad of possibilities here, as to how she might have been able to obtain seats like these. Your thoughts are not any more correct than anyone else's. You should tone down the arrogance, judgment and misandry.
> 
> 
> 
> 2ntnuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who agrees with this,
> 
> If the husband did care that *she gave her number to someone in partial barter for VIP tickets*, what would be an expected response? What would be appropriate? How should he handle it?
> 
> *I think he should monitor her calls and VAR her car*, then, he can be certain if she accepted the call and *what she was willing to offer. She may not have intended to give him sex, but maybe just a bj or hj.* That isn't sex, right?
> 
> 
> 
> This is hypothetical.
Click to expand...

I'm not naive, there are infinite possibilities but you are the one that took them forward to suggest that it was likely that she intended to give sexual favors.

I don't agree that my thoughts are no more correct than anyone else's as I am not the one assuming the very worst of people I don't know.

Why should I tone down the judgement? You are the one that suggested that a) they were bartering for the ticket when OP clearly states the intention of the phone number b) husband should start spying on his wife and c) that she considered giving a stranger a bj or hj in return for tickets.

There's no misandry here at all. I haven't assumed that the security guard expected anything in return nor have I said anything anti-men here. The only thing I am against is the assumption that women will immediately give sex to a stranger in return for something and that a husband should exercise control on his wife's behavior.

Kudos by the way on spelling Misandry correctly. 

Maybe I do need to tone down the arrogance a little.



2ntnuf said:


> She might, but it's unlikely. Tell me. Why would he bother to go to all that trouble for someone he doesn't know? *Why would he use his break or lunch to go and get the ticket?* Do you think he is just a good soul that loves women so much he would do anything for them and expect nothing in return? Do you believe in Santa Claus? He'll be coming soon. Did you write him a letter?


Did you even read the OP? It was a matter of him holding the rope back an letting them in, getting a ticket never came into it.

I got a free transatlantic airline upgrade to business class a year or so ago, a value way in excess of any concert I can imagine. Would you like to take a guess how much thought I put to the gate agent expecting me to take her round the corner for a quickie? I'll give you a clue it's a number very very close to zero. 



2ntnuf said:


> How does one "talk" their way into way better seats that cost much more? Many many others have had to do more than talk to get those tickets.


It's quite easy actually. Most people in any sort of customer service position get treated like s**t all day long. All you have to do is be polite, civil and treat them like a decent human being and the results are endless. Try it.



2ntnuf said:


> Guys turned gay? Why would that matter? If heterosexual, I'd assume they had to pay for them, but weren't sure there were any available. If gay, I would assume they either paid for them or bartered for them.
> 
> And there is your misandry and homophobia. You immediately consider they might be gay. I never mentioned these women might be lesbians because it didn't occur to me. It didn't matter. Could homosexual women offer sex in barter for something they wanted badly? Sure, and so could men.
> 
> Why did you go there? Are you a homophobic misandrist or just not very intelligent?


I merely used a similar analogy but with men trying to talk their way into an upgrade. Your assumption was that women are prepared to offer sexual favors to get something, I wondered if you made the same assumption when men tried a similar thing. There was no misandry or homophobia implied.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Did you forget to take your meds today? What is the point of all this, concerning opinions? 

Are you trying to prove you are right and I am wrong? Sorry, it's all opinion. Let it go.

Find someone else to play with. I'm not going to help you figure it out. 





WonkyNinja said:


> No @NobodySpecial suggested giving someone a fake number as a way out of the situation, but also said that she wouldn't do it. Never even suggested that the woman probably had done.
> 
> If they had given a fake number then there would have been zero possibility of getting into the VIP seats which was the whole object.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you _prove_ based solely upon your own supposition?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible, then yes anything is possible but you seem to assume that because it is possible it is likely. It's possible for me to win the Powerball lottery but extermely unlikely.
> 
> For you to suggest, based upon absolutely nothing, that if a woman wants something she would therefore be willing to go further to get it is insulting in the extreme. I have to assume you mean give sexual favors. I do agree that a hj or bj is sex and for a married person is cheating but nothing in the OP even suggested that as a remote possibility. That was all in your imagination which you then took forward to assume as probability.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not naive, there are infinite possibilities but you are the one that took them forward to suggest that it was likely that she intended to give sexual favors.
> 
> I don't agree that my thoughts are no more correct than anyone else's as I am not the one assuming the very worst of people I don't know.
> 
> Why should I tone down the judgement? You are the one that suggested that a) they were bartering for the ticket when OP clearly states the intention of the phone number b) husband should start spying on his wife and c) that she considered giving a stranger a bj or hj in return for tickets.
> 
> There's no misandry here at all. I haven't assumed that the security guard expected anything in return nor have I said anything anti-men here. The only thing I am against is the assumption that women will immediately give sex to a stranger in return for something and that a husband should exercise control on his wife's behavior.
> 
> Kudos by the way on spelling Misandry correctly.
> 
> Maybe I do need to tone down the arrogance a little.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you even read the OP? It was a matter of him holding the rope back an letting them in, getting a ticket never came into it.
> 
> I got a free transatlantic airline upgrade to business class a year or so ago, a value way in excess of any concert I can imagine. Would you like to take a guess how much thought I put to the gate agent expecting me to take her round the corner for a quickie? I'll give you a clue it's a number very very close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> It's quite easy actually. Most people in any sort of customer service position get treated like s**t all day long. All you have to do is be polite, civil and treat them like a decent human being and the results are endless. Try it.
> 
> 
> 
> I merely used a similar analogy but with men trying to talk their way into an upgrade. Your assumption was that women are prepared to offer sexual favors to get something, I wondered if you made the same assumption when men tried a similar thing. There was no misandry or homophobia implied.


----------



## TX-SC

Would I like it if my wife acted this way? No. I doubt it would lead to favors, but my response is to buy the seats you want and live with what you bought.


----------



## COguy

heartsbeating said:


> With the original question, it's not something I would do.
> 
> As for accepting drinks, I'm rarely in that scenario however earlier this year I was visiting a friend. She's a single parent keen to have a carefree weekend. We went to dinner, had a few drinks; she had fun sharing her old stomping ground with me. At the karaoke bar, we were offered drinks but declined, went to the bar to get our own. He came up, told the girl behind the bar that our drinks were to be put on his tab 'whatever they want..' I still went to pay for my wine and she told me it was on the house. I suspect he was a promoter, owner or crowd starter. Nothing untoward happened, we mixed with the crowd, a good vibe with the karaoke lot. My single friend talked to him a good part of the night. I mostly cheered the singers. As we were leaving, he offered to hail a taxi for us 'to get us back safely'. I declined, told him we'd get our own taxi (and he didn't need to know where we were heading). We left, he didn't ask for friend's number. She was pleased to just have a relaxed, fun night out. I had a blast too!
> 
> Hubs asked if we'd been hit on / offered drinks. I told him. He said he wasn't surprised; thought I didn't need to accept it but wasn't a big deal to him either. I'd agree with that - I didn't need it (and perhaps wouldn't another time) but wasn't a big deal either.


I like your story. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## FeministInPink

WonkyNinja said:


> *Deidre* said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's interesting to note, are the comments stating ''I would never cheat, and my SO knows I'd never cheat.'' Why are there so many infidelity stories on here, then? No one wakes up, stretches and says ''I'm going to cheat today!'' lol
> 
> 
> 
> Because this is a forum very heavily dominated by people who have been cheated on, or have cheated and regret doing so. It's a bit like going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and concluding that the majority of people that go to a bar end up addicted to alcohol.
> 
> 
> 
> *Deidre* said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most things start with a phone number, flirting, Facebook ''innocent'' conversations, business lunches, etc...this is how nearly every thread on here starts when the betrayed spouse or the wayward spouse tells their stories. Not saying giving your number out means you will likely cheat, but you open the door to what the other person might have in mind. And then when she realizes that most likely he can't do anything for her, but he starts texting her ''good morning beautiful'' messages, etc...she may take the bait, when her husband and her just had a fight. That is how many affairs start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe that a strong marriage gets derailed by a stranger texting "good morning beautiful" to a spouse. The marriage has to be in a pretty dire situation for that to occur, even if one partner doesn't recognize it. An affair has to start somehow and can only happen when you want one.
> 
> The vast majority of married people have hundreds of personal interactions every day outside of home without any suggestion of straying.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything in WonkyNinja's response, and would also like to add the following:

Cheating is a character flaw. There are serial cheaters out there, who will cheat no matter how great their relationship is. Also, there are plenty of people whose relationships are horrible, and they are unhappy--and who HAVE the opportunity to cheat--but they don't cheat. Because they have a stronger character, and they understand that there is a line that, once crossed, can never be uncrossed.

In the original scenario, the wife gives the bouncer her phone number. That in and of itself will not lead to cheating. It is what happens AFTER that--and how the wife behaves/responds--the will determine if she cheats or not. It depends on her character.

It all depends on character.

Here's a real-life scenario for everyone to consider:

I love going out to karaoke, and (not to brag or anything) I'm a really good singer. So the Karaoke DJs ("KJ"s) all like me a lot, and they remember me. I'm friends with all fo them on Facebook, we chat at shows, etc, etc. There is one KJ that I get along with really well. We occassionally have text conversations and we talk on the phone occassionally. He is also SUPER flirty with me--he's always telling me how great I look, or if he hugs me, how good I smell, etc, etc. Very flirty. This KJ is also married, and I absolutely adore his wife. She and I are friends on Facebook, and I talk to her at shows a lot, too. She knows that he and I talk regularly, and I'm pretty sure she knows that he flirts with me. And it's OK, because... he ALSO talks incessantly about his wife and how amazing she is, and he knows that I will never actually respond/act on his flirting. Becasue that is my character. He KNOWS I will never mess with another woman's man, never in a million years. He's a flirty guy (it's just his personality), but he's been approached by women who actually DO want to get in his pants, and he avoids them like the plague, because he adores his wife and would never actually cheat on her, not in a million years. Because he has character. He flirts with me because I'm safe to flirt with; his wife knows that I'm safe. If I thought there was actual intention behind his flirting, I would shut him down in a hot minute, but I don;'t have to. It's all about character.


----------



## 2ntnuf

FeministInPink said:


> I agree with everything in WonkyNinja's response, and would also like to add the following:
> 
> Cheating is a character flaw. There are serial cheaters out there, who will cheat no matter how great their relationship is. Also, there are plenty of people whose relationships are horrible, and they are unhappy--and who HAVE the opportunity to cheat--but they don't cheat. Because they have a stronger character, and they understand that there is a line that, once crossed, can never be uncrossed.
> 
> In the original scenario, the wife gives the bouncer her phone number. That in and of itself will not lead to cheating. It is what happens AFTER that--and how the wife behaves/responds--the will determine if she cheats or not. It depends on her character.
> 
> It all depends on character.
> 
> Here's a real-life scenario for everyone to consider:
> 
> I love going out to karaoke, and (not to brag or anything) I'm a really good singer. So the Karaoke DJs ("KJ"s) all like me a lot, and they remember me. I'm friends with all fo them on Facebook, we chat at shows, etc, etc. There is one KJ that I get along with really well. We occassionally have text conversations and we talk on the phone occassionally. He is also SUPER flirty with me--he's always telling me how great I look, or if he hugs me, how good I smell, etc, etc. Very flirty. This KJ is also married, and I absolutely adore his wife. She and I are friends on Facebook, and I talk to her at shows a lot, too. She knows that he and I talk regularly, and I'm pretty sure she knows that he flirts with me. And it's OK, because... he ALSO talks incessantly about his wife and how amazing she is, and he knows that I will never actually respond/act on his flirting. Becasue that is my character. He KNOWS I will never mess with another woman's man, never in a million years. He's a flirty guy (it's just his personality), but he's been approached by women who actually DO want to get in his pants, and he avoids them like the plague, because he adores his wife and would never actually cheat on her, not in a million years. Because he has character. He flirts with me because I'm safe to flirt with; his wife knows that I'm safe. If I thought there was actual intention behind his flirting, I would shut him down in a hot minute, but I don;'t have to. It's all about character.


I disagree with this. This is pushing boundaries and testing character. It's unnecessary and dangerous. 

I can only think of one analogy. A recovering alcoholic has been sober for ten years. He is asked to meet with folks at a bar. He is hesitant and doesn't want to press his luck and boundaries. He talks with a friend about this dilemma because it bothers him a little and he would really like to go. 

The friend tell him to go because he has been sober for ten years. He thinks about it and goes. Nothing happens. He does it more and more often. Eventually, there comes a day when he is thirsty, has had a really good day, and wants to celebrate. He thinks to himself, "Just this once. It won't hurt. No one will know and I'll feel so much better celebrating my wonderful day." 

He takes that drink and it tastes really good. It makes him feel so good, he decides to have another. By the end of the night, he has broken his boundaries and destroyed all he built with very difficult work for the last ten years, just to have a little celebration with his buddies. 

Your mileage may vary. That's my opinion. 

In this situation, I can't imagine why anyone would give a stranger VIP tickets just because they asked. Sorry, it isn't logical. Your feelings may make you see something else, but it's all hope and delusion.


----------



## FeministInPink

2ntnuf said:


> I disagree with this. This is pushing boundaries and testing character. It's unnecessary and dangerous.
> 
> I can only think of one analogy. A recovering alcoholic has been sober for ten years. He is asked to meet with folks at a bar. He is hesitant and doesn't want to press his luck and boundaries. He talks with a friend about this dilemma because it bothers him a little and he would really like to go.
> 
> The friend tell him to go because he has been sober for ten years. He thinks about it and goes. Nothing happens. He does it more and more often. Eventually, there comes a day when he is thirsty, has had a really good day, and wants to celebrate. He thinks to himself, "Just this once. It won't hurt. No one will know and I'll feel so much better celebrating my wonderful day."
> 
> He takes that drink and it tastes really good. It makes him feel so good, he decides to have another. By the end of the night, he has broken his boundaries and destroyed all he built with very difficult work for the last ten years, just to have a little celebration with his buddies.
> 
> Your mileage may vary. That's my opinion.
> 
> In this situation, I can't imagine why anyone would give a stranger VIP tickets just because they asked. Sorry, it isn't logical. Your feelings may make you see something else, but it's all hope and delusion.


The only way that analogy works is if you're comparing the recovering alcoholic to a recovering cheater, and only some of the time.

Someone who has never been a drinker or who doesn't have alcoholic tendencies won't behave in the same way. And not all recovering alcoholics will even have the first sip.

Likewise, for someone who doesn't have the inclination to cheat isn't going to slide down that slippery slope.

Not all people are the same.

PS. I have friends who are recovering alcoholics, and have been sober for 10+ years. They have no problem being in bars or around people who drink. And they manage to stay sober.


----------



## 2ntnuf

FeministInPink said:


> The only way that analogy works is if you're comparing the recovering alcoholic to a recovering cheater, and only some of the time.
> 
> Someone who has never been a drinker or who doesn't have alcoholic tendencies won't behave in the same way. And not all recovering alcoholics will even have the first sip.
> 
> Likewise, for someone who doesn't have the inclination to cheat isn't going to slide down that slippery slope.
> 
> Not all people are the same.
> 
> PS. I have friends who are recovering alcoholics, and have been sober for 10+ years. They have no problem being in bars or around people who drink. And they manage to stay sober.


Well, we all enjoy the love chemicals. We love the high we get in new love. We love the high we get from being important and proud of ourselves. We love the high we get when we receive some sign of gratitude or caring. It's all brain chemicals and we are addicted to them. 

It's been said here at TAM that it is the foolish person who believes he is incapable of cheating. I believe that.


----------



## FeministInPink

2ntnuf said:


> Well, we all enjoy the love chemicals. We love the high we get in new love. We love the high we get from being important and proud of ourselves. We love the high we get when we receive some sign of gratitude or caring. It's all brain chemicals and we are addicted to them.
> 
> It's been said here at TAM that it is the foolish person who believes he is incapable of cheating. I believe that.


And what about free will, and the ability to make one's own choices? No one is a slave to their brain chemicals; that's an argument for people who want to play the victim.


----------



## 2ntnuf

FeministInPink said:


> And what about free will, and the ability to make one's own choices? No one is a slave to their brain chemicals; that's an argument for people who want to play the victim.


In my mind, it's an argument for not taking chances. I really don't get the free will comment. It's pretty obvious from the amount of men and women who cheat that the vast majority of married couples have free will and exercise it. That is, if the amount who cheat is 50%, because there has to be a percentage of those who decide not to cheat, which would throw it over to the majority. Just a little logical guesstimation tells me that. 

Sure, we can take chances if we want. Probably get away with it for a while.

I would disagree with "no one". There are many who have a sexual crisis in midlife. Of course, not all of them cheat or find TAM, and some find themselves with less drive rather than hyper drive.


----------



## *Deidre*

FeministInPink said:


> I agree with everything in WonkyNinja's response, and would also like to add the following:
> 
> Cheating is a character flaw. There are serial cheaters out there, who will cheat no matter how great their relationship is. Also, there are plenty of people whose relationships are horrible, and they are unhappy--and who HAVE the opportunity to cheat--but they don't cheat. Because they have a stronger character, and they understand that there is a line that, once crossed, can never be uncrossed.
> 
> In the original scenario, the wife gives the bouncer her phone number. That in and of itself will not lead to cheating. It is what happens AFTER that--and how the wife behaves/responds--the will determine if she cheats or not. It depends on her character.
> 
> It all depends on character.
> 
> Here's a real-life scenario for everyone to consider:
> 
> I love going out to karaoke, and (not to brag or anything) I'm a really good singer. So the Karaoke DJs ("KJ"s) all like me a lot, and they remember me. I'm friends with all fo them on Facebook, we chat at shows, etc, etc. There is one KJ that I get along with really well. We occassionally have text conversations and we talk on the phone occassionally. He is also SUPER flirty with me--he's always telling me how great I look, or if he hugs me, how good I smell, etc, etc. Very flirty. This KJ is also married, and I absolutely adore his wife. She and I are friends on Facebook, and I talk to her at shows a lot, too. She knows that he and I talk regularly, and I'm pretty sure she knows that he flirts with me. And it's OK, because... he ALSO talks incessantly about his wife and how amazing she is, and he knows that I will never actually respond/act on his flirting. Becasue that is my character. He KNOWS I will never mess with another woman's man, never in a million years. He's a flirty guy (it's just his personality), but he's been approached by women who actually DO want to get in his pants, and he avoids them like the plague, because he adores his wife and would never actually cheat on her, not in a million years. Because he has character. He flirts with me because I'm safe to flirt with; his wife knows that I'm safe. If I thought there was actual intention behind his flirting, I would shut him down in a hot minute, but I don;'t have to. It's all about character.


I agree with you on many levels, and my bf and I don't monitor one another, I have no idea who he has on his FB, etc. But, at the same time, I think many on this forum who have been cheated on, never saw it coming. They believed they married a good person with strong character. I read a thread recently where a wayward spouse said ''I never thought I would do this.'' I mean, no one sets out to cheat, unless they're a narcissist. Most ''good'' people didn't set out to do it, I'd like to believe. There's a lot of people cheating out there, and I doubt they all are horrible people who intended to harm their spouses. 

You're a good person, FeministInPink...not all people are.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Yeah, it's not about one person being good and another person bad. It's about no one knowing their partner. And it's true, we can't know our partner as well as we know ourselves. They don't know themselves, that a time will come in their lives where they will do something totally against their previous nature. 

Why press it? Why push to as close as it gets to cheating or someone thinking there is something going on? There are ways to do things that prove faithfulness and a lack of desire for anyone else. 

As in, order the VIP tickets ahead of time if you decide you want them. Pay for them with your money. Period. That way, this thread doesn't even exist because there is no reason to debate right or wrong, judgment or free will. It's all moot.


----------



## WonkyNinja

*Deidre* said:


> I agree with you on many levels, and my bf and I don't monitor one another, I have no idea who he has on his FB, etc. But, at the same time, I think many on this forum who have been cheated on, never saw it coming. They believed they married a good person with strong character. I read a thread recently where a wayward spouse said ''I never thought I would do this.'' I mean, *no one sets out to cheat, unless they're a narcissist*. Most ''good'' people didn't set out to do it, I'd like to believe. There's a lot of people cheating out there, and I doubt they all are horrible people who intended to harm their spouses.
> 
> You're a good person, FeministInPink...not all people are.


I agree with your last sentence, your last three actually, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. Peoples feelings and emotions are far too complex to put everyone in a single category and state that everyone who cheats is a narcissist. There are probably as many different reasons as there are occurrences. 

You can't go through life mistrusting everyone and it's nice to see that you and your bf are in a position of trust. If you ever feel the need to monitor each other then that alone would be an issue.


----------



## *Deidre*

WonkyNinja said:


> I agree with your last sentence, your last three actually, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. Peoples feelings and emotions are far too complex to put everyone in a single category and state that everyone who cheats is a narcissist. There are probably as many different reasons as there are occurrences.
> 
> You can't go through life mistrusting everyone and it's nice to see that you and your bf are in a position of trust. If you ever feel the need to monitor each other then that alone would be an issue.


I didn't say everyone who cheats is a narcissist, I said people who set out to cheat, are narcissists.


----------



## WonkyNinja

*Deidre* said:


> I didn't say everyone who cheats is a narcissist, I said people who set out to cheat, are narcissists.


You are correct, I didn't read it properly. My apologies.


----------



## *Deidre*

WonkyNinja said:


> You are correct, I didn't read it properly. My apologies.


No worries. :laugh:


----------



## COguy

My favorite analogy on this site was this:

A man was hiring a driver to haul some diamonds through a coastal road. He interviewed the first driver: "How close can you get to the edge of the cliff while driving?" The first driver replied, "I can get within 1 foot of the edge." He asked the second driver the same question and he replied, "I can get within 6 inches of the cliff."

He then hired the third driver after his answer to the question, "You're hauling precious cargo, I'm going to stay as far away from the edge as possible."

I want a partner that stays as far away from the potential to cheat as possible. I'm not interested in seeing how many men she can talk to without crossing a boundary.


----------



## FeministInPink

COguy said:


> My favorite analogy on this site was this:
> 
> A man was hiring a driver to haul some diamonds through a coastal road. He interviewed the first driver: "How close can you get to the edge of the cliff while driving?" The first driver replied, "I can get within 1 foot of the edge." He asked the second driver the same question and he replied, "I can get within 6 inches of the cliff."
> 
> He then hired the third driver after his answer to the question, "You're hauling precious cargo, I'm going to stay as far away from the edge as possible."
> 
> I want a partner that stays as far away from the potential to cheat as possible. I'm not interested in seeing how many men she can talk to without crossing a boundary.


That's a good analogy. But I still don't think that original anecdote in the thread was anywhere near the edge. I'd put it somewhere near the double yellow line in the middle of the road.


----------



## cj48060

2ntnuf said:


> What isn't cool?


The girlfriend giving the security guy her number. 1 she is married. And 2 its like she was using her body to buy it. Yeah she didn't sleep with him but still. Girls who use their looks for things like this give us a bad rep 

Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk


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## cj48060

2ntnuf said:


> This is a chicken sh!t post. Crawl back in the hole you came out of.


Excuse me? How is this a chicken **** post?

I was just simply agreeing with op. 

I don't think its cool for a married woman to be giving her number out to a guy whose intentions were obvios. Who cares if hers were good. And was trying to save a few bucks. Its called respect. I know I wouldn't appreciate my man giving or getting a number or doing a favor.

So now you back in the hole you came out of jerk 











Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk


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## notmyrealname4

If women want to be recognized as equally intelligent and worthy and capable as men. If we want our talents and education and brains to be what defines us.

Then we have to stop engaging in this type of stupid behavior.


If a strange man wants your phone number in exchange for good concert seats; then that means he wants access to you in some way.

And we know what "way" that is; he's putting out "feelers" to see if he can start something with you.

So, ladies, stop playing with your sexuality to manipulate men.

If women, as a group, keep feeding into this type of sh.t, we will never get the type of respect that we claim to want.


----------



## uhtred

I sort of agree, but I've never actually observed women behaving this way, so it may be very uncommon, not a typical behavior for a significant number of women. 



notmyrealname4 said:


> If women want to be recognized as equally intelligent and worthy and capable as men. If we want our talents and education and brains to be what defines us.
> 
> Then we have to stop engaging in this type of stupid behavior.
> 
> 
> If a strange man wants your phone number in exchange for good concert seats; then that means he wants access to you in some way.
> 
> And we know what "way" that is; he's putting out "feelers" to see if he can start something with you.
> 
> So, ladies, stop playing with your sexuality to manipulate men.
> 
> If women, as a group, keep feeding into this type of sh.t, we will never get the type of respect that we claim to want.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Did any of you see this post of mine before you took my position as offensive? 




2ntnuf said:


> There is no worry and lots of trust when one is trustworthy. Offering a phone number, whether real or fake, is not an action that proves trustworthiness.
> 
> Asking someone to trust you, or concluding they don't, by their lack of trust is really pointing a finger at the wrong person. You should be looking in a mirror when you say that. You don't really love your husband, or wife in those cases that apply.





cj48060 said:


> The girlfriend giving the security guy her number. 1 she is married. And 2 its like she was using her body to buy it. Yeah she didn't sleep with him but still. Girls who use their looks for things like this give us a bad rep
> 
> Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk





notmyrealname4 said:


> If women want to be recognized as equally intelligent and worthy and capable as men. If we want our talents and education and brains to be what defines us.
> 
> Then we have to stop engaging in this type of stupid behavior.
> 
> 
> If a strange man wants your phone number in exchange for good concert seats; then that means he wants access to you in some way.
> 
> And we know what "way" that is; he's putting out "feelers" to see if he can start something with you.
> 
> So, ladies, stop playing with your sexuality to manipulate men.
> 
> If women, as a group, keep feeding into this type of sh.t, we will never get the type of respect that we claim to want.


----------



## Faithful Wife

notmyrealname4 said:


> If women want to be recognized as equally intelligent and worthy and capable as men. If we want our talents and education and brains to be what defines us.
> 
> Then we have to stop engaging in this type of stupid behavior.
> 
> 
> If a strange man wants your phone number in exchange for good concert seats; then that means he wants access to you in some way.
> 
> And we know what "way" that is; he's putting out "feelers" to see if he can start something with you.
> 
> So, ladies, stop playing with your sexuality to manipulate men.
> 
> If women, as a group, keep feeding into this type of sh.t, we will never get the type of respect that we claim to want.


But isn't out-witting your "opponent", using whatever means you have available to you, a sign of intelligence? 

I'm not condoning this behavior, but we all know men do and will manipulate us using any means they can to get us to do things that please them in some way. Not always just "to get sex". Sometimes they just want our attention or our phone number or even our friend's phone number. There is no way men will ever stop doing everything they can think of to get us in the sack (or other pleasures). Therefore, I see no reason not to use this tendency against them when possible, appropriate and necessary, jiu jitsu style.


----------



## notmyrealname4

2ntnuf said:


> Did any of you see this post of mine before you took my position as offensive?




Sorry, 2ntnuf, I'm not understanding your statement here.:scratchhead:

I did not take your position as offensive. I just posted my own opinion.


----------



## notmyrealname4

Faithful Wife said:


> But isn't out-witting your "opponent", using whatever means you have available to you, a sign of intelligence?
> 
> I'm not condoning this behavior, but we all know men do and will manipulate us using any means they can to get us to do things that please them in some way. Not always just "to get sex". Sometimes they just want our attention or our phone number or even our friend's phone number. There is no way men will ever stop doing everything they can think of to get us in the sack (or other pleasures). Therefore, I see no reason not to use this tendency against them when possible, appropriate and necessary, jiu jitsu style.



Although I realize you are making the "opponent" comment mostly in jest; I have to say that I've never viewed men as opponents when it comes to romance or sex.

And I confess that I am not playful or flirtatious, unless the guy is mine.

Understandably then, I have not been sought out by men much. Too serious. I think they sense I'm either not into them at all, or I might want to marry them. I'm not subtle and really only have those two speeds "romantically".

So, yes, I am an outlier. But, I still think that my perspective is sound. Put out what you want to get back.

And by all means, if you want to manipulate men because it's your experience that they manipulate you; follow that path. I get it.

But, overall, I don't think that approach will lead to men valuing women more in a non-sexual sense.


----------



## Faithful Wife

notmyrealname4 said:


> Although I realize you are making the "opponent" comment mostly in jest; I have to say that I've never viewed men as opponents when it comes to romance or sex.
> 
> And I confess that I am not playful or flirtatious, unless the guy is mine.
> 
> Understandably then, I have not been sought out by men much. Too serious. I think they sense I'm either not into them at all, or I might want to marry them. I'm not subtle and really only have those two speeds "romantically".
> 
> So, yes, I am an outlier. But, I still think that my perspective is sound. Put out what you want to get back.
> 
> And by all means, if you want to manipulate men because it's your experience that they manipulate you; follow that path. I get it.
> 
> *But, overall, I don't think that approach will lead to men valuing women more in a non-sexual sense*.


I just think that there is no way SOME men, the ones who currently only value women sexually and the same ones who would and will do anything possible to manipulate or dupe a woman in to getting something out of her, will EVER see women differently.

So when I encounter one of these types of men....I feel no shame in back-gaming them.

In some ways I don't blame them. I value men in a sexual way and I don't see this as an insult to them. I value them for more than this. I think most decent and normal men feel similarly, like they do value women in a sexual way but not only in that way. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and of course, there are some of the opposite sex we do not look at sexually, so it isn't applied equally across the board. Some amount of sexual appreciation and value is applied to some men and women by all of us. We are sexual creatures, it is just natural. 

I don't think anything we can do will stop the SOME men who ONLY view us that way. They will forever only look at us that way. We must be able to identify these guys to protect ourselves. They aren't going to change, we will just always have to stay wary of them. And in my case, I choose to sometimes flip it back on them.


----------



## COguy

Faithful Wife said:


> I just think that there is no way SOME men, the ones who currently only value women sexually and the same ones who would and will do anything possible to manipulate or dupe a woman in to getting something out of her, will EVER see women differently.
> 
> So when I encounter one of these types of men....I feel no shame in back-gaming them.
> 
> In some ways I don't blame them. I value men in a sexual way and I don't see this as an insult to them. I value them for more than this. I think most decent and normal men feel similarly, like they do value women in a sexual way but not only in that way. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and of course, there are some of the opposite sex we do not look at sexually, so it isn't applied equally across the board. Some amount of sexual appreciation and value is applied to some men and women by all of us. We are sexual creatures, it is just natural.
> 
> I don't think anything we can do will stop the SOME men who ONLY view us that way. They will forever only look at us that way. We must be able to identify these guys to protect ourselves. They aren't going to change, we will just always have to stay wary of them. And in my case, I choose to sometimes flip it back on them.


Sounds ineffective. I don't think the guys that view women as only sexual objects are the same ones that give stuff up for the "chance" at sex. The guy who buys girls drinks at the bar isn't getting laid, he's a "nice guy."

In the same way that if I wanted to get back at girls who only look at guys as wallets, it wouldn't make much sense to justify that by conning women into bed that are just looking for validation.


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## 2ntnuf

COguy said:


> Sounds ineffective. I don't think the guys that view women as only sexual objects are the same ones that give stuff up for the "chance" at sex. The guy who buys girls drinks at the bar isn't getting laid, he's a "nice guy."
> 
> In the same way that if I wanted to get back at girls who only look at guys as wallets, it wouldn't make much sense to justify that by conning women into bed that are just looking for validation.


Yeah. And just to add a comment...

Each of us has a responsibility to ourselves. We must make the choice based on what we know and want within our character traits. I think it's wrong to accept someone and take a chance on them, then blame them for our choice when it doesn't work out like we thought it would. Think with the big head, not the little one. Don't know an analogy for women.


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## wild jade

Faithful Wife said:


> But isn't out-witting your "opponent", using whatever means you have available to you, a sign of intelligence?
> 
> I'm not condoning this behavior, but we all know men do and will manipulate us using any means they can to get us to do things that please them in some way. Not always just "to get sex". Sometimes they just want our attention or our phone number or even our friend's phone number. There is no way men will ever stop doing everything they can think of to get us in the sack (or other pleasures). Therefore, I see no reason not to use this tendency against them when possible, appropriate and necessary, jiu jitsu style.


I don't think that manipulation is even required in most cases. I've been offered random stuff from random dudes from the second I hit puberty. Something like getting into the VIP lounge or backstage is just a matter of talking to the right person.

Come to think of it, when it comes to this sort of thing, you don't even necessarily need to be a couple of hot chicks. I've gone backstage a couple of times with my hubby.


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## Faithful Wife

COguy said:


> Sounds ineffective. I don't think the guys that view women as only sexual objects are the same ones that give stuff up for the "chance" at sex. The guy who buys girls drinks at the bar isn't getting laid, he's a "nice guy."
> 
> In the same way that if I wanted to get back at girls who only look at guys as wallets, it wouldn't make much sense to justify that by conning women into bed that are just looking for validation.


You didn't really get my point....but that's ok.

I'm not going to just target "whoever" to "get back at" the men who manipulate women. I'm going to target a man who is attempting to manipulate me, and turn it around on him. Very simple and very specific, not random.


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