# Does my single male friend want more?



## moonshine

I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single? 
I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?


----------



## ConanHub

Is he friends with your husband?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## moonshine

He has met my husband twice in the last 10 years, but no. He is only friends with me. Since we'er always traveling when we're together, there has never been the chance.


----------



## Betrayedone

Danger Will Robinson...........


----------



## Decorum

Does your husband know how intimate you are with him?


----------



## NotLikeYou

moonshine said:


> Thoughts?


If your friend is straight, then he almost definitely wants more.

If he has been single for the 10 years you have known him, then he is probably deficient in ways that you don't know about, that would render him unsuitable as a life partner, even if you were available.

If you love your husband, and value your marriage, you should probably stop being friends with a single guy who lingers when he's around you, and brings you gifts.

If you feel a deep emotional closeness to your single friend, and you absolutely HATE the idea of losing the friendship, then ending it would be an even better idea for the sake of your marriage.


----------



## GusPolinski

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. *He would never try to break up my marriage.* But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?


You might be surprised.


----------



## MountainRunner

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. *Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc.* However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?


And does your husband know of these latest...."gestures"?


----------



## meson

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. *Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. *However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?


He is slowly escalating the relationship to something more than work. This is a sign of an EA which is an emotional attachment towards you that is growing. This attachment that is growing has a neural chemical basis that is similar to cocaine addiction. He may or may not have a desire for more of a relationship with you, you don't know. But if the escalation is allowed to continue the addiction will grow and his feelings for more will grow. 

It is time to put more boundaries in place to ensure it goes no further. It's good you don't discuss relationship items. Don't start. Limit the time you are together. Focus on some other people during any trip. Turn him down for meetings and start to refuse gifts. Tell him it's inappropriate to accept them when you are married and that he is going to far. You don't need to lose the friendship but you can't let it go any further. 

His reaction to your cooling things off will show you how really he feels. If he is cool with it great. If he becomes persistent you know that he is too deeply invested and that you need to cut contact even more.


----------



## Decorum

meson said:


> He is slowly escalating the relationship to something more than work.


BTW after you get caught in the affair, this is how you can say, *"Neither of us saw it coming, it just happened."*

Nice. 



.


----------



## Thundarr

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> *I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?*


Thoughts are that you're fishing MS. Why are you not so sure it's not a brother/sister thing any more? Why are you wondering what he would want if you were single? That shouldn't matter and the appropriate action is to back away from those you feel are temping for you. To be completely honest, the problem here is you and not this friend.


----------



## EllisRedding

So you are just casual friends but you two have been there for each other for what sounds like significant life events (death, major job changes, etc...)? Where is your husband in all of this, shouldn't he be the one you are leaning on for stuff like this? I think you are lying to yourself if you think this is just a friendship. Even if there has been nothing physical, sounds like the emotional connection you have with him is more than just "friends".


----------



## Satya

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years.


How long have you been married? 

We're you friends with this guy before marriage? 

Your husband has not met this guy enough at all. Friends of a married woman need to be friends of the relationship, meaning you both, and have your best interests in mind. 

Would your guy friend give you a gift with your husband standing right next to you? 

The question you should be asking yourself is, if my husband were next to me, would it be appropriate to be saying these things/doing these things/spending this much time with this guy? Hint: the answer is most commonly NO. 

Some people can happily have osf. But that is mostly a relationship that is wide open to the spouse, without any little secrets or conversations behind closed doors. As soon as you emotionally share outside of your marriage, you are neglecting that important bond with your husband. You are leaving him out. It's a high school game. 

Read Shirley Glass : Not Just Friends.


----------



## lucy999

Let me ask you this:

How would you feel if your H were in this situation? Would you be comfortable with one of his female coworkers treating him like your coworker treats you?


----------



## arbitrator

*Does your H know of all of these overtures and advances that this guy is making toward you? I'm taking it that he does not!

Without his knowledge of it, all that it is going to take is just one weak moment alone with this "stage door johnny" that you'll instantaneously give in to his coming carnal demands because of his special treatment of you! Like it or not, it sounds greatly like you're already in the throes of an EA and logically progressing to the next stage!

You had best back off, and inform your H of everything that has heretofore happened between this OM and you, or you could find yourself, as well as your friend, fastly becoming the objects of your H's negative attentions, not to even mention being made prime candidates to wear your a$$es for hats, more especially if he finds out about your little relationship through other possible sources! *


----------



## moonshine

Thanks everyone. There is a lot of truth here. Sometimes a 3rd party can see the obvious much more clearly that I can.
The question that has been posed most is "does my husband know". Of course he does. He is the first person i go to with everything. my friend is a supplement to things like jobs, death, etc. Much in the way that girls or guys have circles of friends for support. 
My hubby also knows about the gifts - they are small in dollar value. I have no secrets from hubby and to date, he has been fine and supportive of my having other friends, including this one.

That said, I am not saying that everything is fine either. That's why I made the post. I think it's fair to say that there are some deficiencies in my marriage that my friend is probably filling in some ways. I'm trying to address those voids without success. I'll post a different thread in another forum about that.

The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


----------



## EllisRedding

If you think your friend wants more, do you feel like you are leading him on by accepting his gifts, etc...?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

moonshine said:


> The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


Don't worry, they have birth control to help with that. He doesn't want to screw you to produce kids.

But he DOES want to screw you. Do you REALLY not know that? Are there REALLY women out there that think men go out of their way to be with them to be just friends? It's kind of sad really.

Girls. Listen to me and listen to me good. Your straight male BFF (single or married) wants sex from you. That is why they are your friend. Sorry about that. But it's life.


----------



## naiveonedave

moonshine said:


> The question that has been posed most is "does my husband know". Of course he does. He is the first person i go to with everything. my friend is a supplement to things like jobs, death, etc. Much in the way that girls or guys have circles of friends for support.
> My hubby also knows about the gifts - they are small in dollar value. I have no secrets from hubby and to date, he has been fine and supportive of my having other friends, including this one.
> 
> That said, I am not saying that everything is fine either. That's why I made the post. I think it's fair to say that there are some deficiencies in my marriage that my friend is probably filling in some ways. I'm trying to address those voids without success. I'll post a different thread in another forum about that.
> 
> The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


I find it odd that your H allows you to have a boyfriend like that. It is clear this guy is your part time boy friend.

I am sure your friend doesn't want children, but he apparently wants practice making them...


----------



## ConanHub

If he were far more of a friend to your husband and involved with both of you, giving gifts and support to your husband and children, it would be a safer situation. Would still need watching as he has been single an unusual amount of time.

As is, I don't believe your relationship with your friend is totally legit. 

Excuses aside, he needs to be a true friend and love your marriage and family.

As mentioned in your previous post, your marriage has deficiencies that you are filling with your friend.

Do you talk to your friend about your marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EllisRedding

ConanHub said:


> Do you talk to your friend about your marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She mentioned she never talks to him about relationship things so I assumed that meant her marriage, but maybe she meant her relationship with her friend?


----------



## EVG39

The question is not does he want more, but does your behavior lead him to believe that you want more ? And if you are talking to him about the deficiencies in your marriage at all then you have sent him all the signal he needs.


----------



## arbitrator

ConanHub said:


> If he were far more of a friend to your husband and involved with both of you, giving gifts and support to your husband and children, it would be a safer situation. Would still need watching as he has been single an unusual amount of time.
> 
> As is, I don't believe your relationship with your friend is totally legit.
> 
> Excuses aside, he needs to be a true friend and love your marriage and family.
> 
> As mentioned in your previous post, your marriage has deficiencies that you are filling with your friend.
> 
> Do you talk to your friend about your marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*The gifts are for no one's benefit other than his very own. And given enough time, he'll fully expect quid pro quo reciprocity ~ and quite preferably in the form of sex! 

Sorry to say that it's largely nothing more than just "vanilla" flavored, male-human nature!*


----------



## always_alone

MachoMcCoy said:


> But he DOES want to screw you. Do you REALLY not know that? Are there REALLY women out there that think men go out of their way to be with them to be just friends? It's kind of sad really.
> 
> Girls. Listen to me and listen to me good. Your straight male BFF (single or married) wants sex from you. That is why they are your friend. Sorry about that. But it's life.


Then why did he turn me down when I offered it up? At the time was single, I was single ...:scratchhead:


----------



## moonshine

I have never spoken with my friend about my marraige in any way, other than good things about my hubby. That seemed like crossing a line. I never wanted to send that signal. 
I never thought I was sending a signal that i wanted more by accepting gifts or anything else. I never wanted to flatter myself in that way as to assume he would. When I was in college i had a different male BFF who I thought wanted more and he shut me down quickly! I would never assume someone else's feelings. 
Perhaps I have sent inappropriate signals. Thanks for suggesting that. My husband knows all and has never said anything - perhaps that's reflective of problems at home.
At the end of the day, i'm thankful to have all the people who are in my life in some way. I'm thankful to have friends I trust, both male and female. 
Never occurred to me I was sending signals. That must be terribly confusing coming from a married woman with children.
I guess guys would assume it's a aset up for potential f***buddies and nothing else?


----------



## Nomorebeans

You are having an Emotional Affair. You and your husband just don't see it yet.

I'm in the process of divorce. My STBXH was "just friends" with a woman he went to high school with for years throughout our marriage. He was there emotionally for her, it turns out, in areas he was not emotionally there for me. For example, last September, he traveled out of state for her father's funeral. He would not go with me to my stepmother of 42 years' funeral earlier that same year - he said he "didn't see the point." She is currently in a LTR with another man - she has been married and divorced twice - but that relationship is on shaky ground, according to him. He went to that funeral, I now believe to hook up with her, found her unavailable, got drunk at the wake, and hooked up instead with a widowed friend of hers. He left me and our son for that woman. Now things are unravelling there, big shocker, and who is he turning to even more? His "friend." I would bet any amount of money he ends up with her - she cheated on her second husband and blew up two marriages with children. They're made for each other.

The important thing is I'm not bitter.

My point, and I do have one , is this kind of friendship is dangerous and not worth it if you care about your marriage. You said yourself he probably fills deficiencies in your marriage. Huge red flag there. You need to talk to your husband about those deficiencies and work with HIM on filling them.

If you truly care about your marriage and your children, you need to dial it the fvck down with this "friend" of yours. What would be a more painful loss? One friendship, or your family?


----------



## Thundarr

moonshine said:


> Thanks everyone. There is a lot of truth here. Sometimes a 3rd party can see the obvious much more clearly that I can.
> The question that has been posed most is "does my husband know". Of course he does. He is the first person i go to with everything. my friend is a supplement to things like jobs, death, etc. Much in the way that girls or guys have circles of friends for support.
> My hubby also knows about the gifts - they are small in dollar value. I have no secrets from hubby and to date, he has been fine and supportive of my having other friends, including this one.
> 
> That said, I am not saying that everything is fine either. That's why I made the post. I think it's fair to say that there are some deficiencies in my marriage that my friend is probably filling in some ways. I'm trying to address those voids without success. I'll post a different thread in another forum about that.
> 
> The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


Having a guy friend is not a problem but your questions and comments are off. Seems like you hope he's interested in you and you're fishing for thoughts. Him not wanting kids has zero to do with your current marriage and you not being sure if it's relevant or not is off. Seems like you're weighing the risks of a relationship with him. 

- Yes he is interested in something.
- No you're not compatible even if both single. He doesn't want kids.
- Yes he is filling emotional needs and you do have romantic feelings for him.
- No this friendship is no longer safe or appropriate.
- Yes you can find a way to rationalize this as ok if you keep fishing but it's not.
- Yes that's my speculation on limited information.


----------



## meson

moonshine said:


> I have never spoken with my friend about my marraige in any way, other than good things about my hubby. That seemed like crossing a line. I never wanted to send that signal.
> I never thought I was sending a signal that i wanted more by accepting gifts or anything else. I never wanted to flatter myself in that way as to assume he would. When I was in college i had a different male BFF who I thought wanted more and he shut me down quickly! I would never assume someone else's feelings.
> Perhaps I have sent inappropriate signals. Thanks for suggesting that. My husband knows all and has never said anything - perhaps that's reflective of problems at home.
> At the end of the day, i'm thankful to have all the people who are in my life in some way. I'm thankful to have friends I trust, both male and female.
> Never occurred to me I was sending signals. That must be terribly confusing coming from a married woman with children.
> I guess guys would assume it's a aset up for potential f***buddies and nothing else?


That's good that you never discuss marital issues that's a good boundary. But it's not enough. Just being with someone feeds the addiction. The issue is that he is demonstrating that he is forming an attachment to you through the escalation of contact and gifts. Whether he wants more or not is irrelevant at this point because the relationship needs to be cooled down to stop and hinder any more attachment forming. Refuse anymore gifts and decrease time with him. Also engage with your husband and identify what your relationship needs and address it. 

I went through a similar evolution and developed feelings for one of my wife's friends. I was escalating as he is. Once the escalation stopped and contact was reduced the feeling subsided. We are still friends but I don't have as much to do with her as I used to. I never had the intent on being her f-buddy at all and we never discussed our marriages but the feelings developed anyway. This is why you need to control it.

Some men may have only the goal of sex on their minds but not all men. I have several female friends and I value them is individuals with common interests not as carnal satisfiers. Those that say all men only think that are speaking for themselves.


----------



## ConanHub

Seems a bit off to describe being so close to someone, very good friends for ten years, close like brother and sister, getting a lot closer in the last year and for him to not know about any issues with your marriage.

I suspect he knows about some deficiencies in your marriage.

I would hazard a guess that working harder in your marriage and improving the relationship with your husband would clear up the confusion about this friend.

I agree with Thundarr that it is the questions and tone of your posts that are more concerning than the circumstances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

always_alone said:


> Then why did he turn me down when I offered it up? At the time was single, I was single ...:scratchhead:


Then what is the issue here? He doesn't want you. He said so. Right? 

But to answer the question: 
1 - He was shy then.
2 - He's gay.

Because he's either gay or wants to screw you. There's no alternative. You need to trust me on this.

Sorry. I just noticed you're not the OP. Unless you have two accounts? Who did I just respond to? Doesn't matter. Same response.


----------



## always_alone

MachoMcCoy said:


> Because he's either gay or wants to screw you. There's no alternative. You need to trust me on this.
> 
> Sorry. I just noticed you're not the OP. Unless you have two accounts? Who did I just respond to? Doesn't matter. Same response.


Not gay, didn't want to screw. You have to trust me on this. Not every man thinks the way you do. No matter how much you think you are representative of all. 

I'm not the OP, just wanted to put it out there that OS friendships are not necessarily wrapped up in drama and cheating. You can be friends and NOT want to destroy their marriage by taking over.


----------



## moonshine

i guess i figured that if he doen't want kids, he wouldn't be interested in me and therefore, the relationship would be safe.


----------



## moonshine

PS - i guess not. Thanks for the advice. I value my husband and kids more and will dial in back.


----------



## Spitfire

How is your relationship with your husband? I'm Guessing it's not so good. Normally a husband in a good relationship would never allow this type of relationship. Maybe he's allowed it to continue as an out for him if it becomes physical. Not trying to be harsh. Just another perspective.


----------



## happy as a clam

C'mon moonshine, are you serious???

How would you feel if your husband had a FEMALE coworker/friend who brought him gifts, lingered (and was inseparable) on out-of-town visits, and was "there" for him through all life's hardships??? Deaths, problems, job-stress, etc. Would you tolerate this for a single moment?

If you have to ask, perhaps YOU are more invested than you realize.


----------



## moonshine

Spitfire said:


> How is your relationship with your husband? I'm Guessing it's not so good. Normally a husband in a good relationship would never allow this type of relationship. Maybe he's allowed it to continue as an out for him if it becomes physical. Not trying to be harsh. Just another perspective.


Wow. I hadn't even thought of that. My H won't communicate with me unless he's drunk. Big problem. I haven't told a soul.


----------



## happy as a clam

moonshine said:


> Wow. I hadn't even thought of that. My H won't communicate with me unless he's drunk. Big problem. *I haven't told a soul.*


Sounds like you are on a VERY dangerous, slippery slope. One that leads to an affair.

Don't keep secrets. Hire a competent counselor and tell them everything you've told us. And see if you can get your husband into AA. And you to Al-Anon.


----------



## Steve1000

Spitfire said:


> How is your relationship with your husband? I'm Guessing it's not so good. Normally a husband in a good relationship would never allow this type of relationship. Maybe he's allowed it to continue as an out for him if it becomes physical. Not trying to be harsh. Just another perspective.


Or possibly her husband is simply naive because he has never had to deal with this before. During my dating years, it was instilled in me to not be too possessive in relationships and that opposite-sex friendships are not a threat. As a result, I too had become very naive about these possibilities.


----------



## Ikaika

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> 
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. *But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single? *
> 
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?



The bold statement in light of what you have told us here, is troubling. I wonder how much you are interested rather than worrying about your friends interest? You need to be honest with yourself. 

If you don't start working on your marriage and stop investing in this unhealthy (yes, it is unhealthy) relationship, this *will* go further. I totally understand your H may not be a willing partner in working on your marriage, but that is the chance you need to take first and go from there. Your current investment is not helping your marriage.


----------



## happy as a clam

*"But I can't help wondering what he would want, if I were single?"*



Ikaika said:


> The bold statement in light of what you have told us here, is troubling. *I wonder how much you are interested* rather than worrying about your friends interest? You need to be honest with yourself.
> 
> If you don't start working on your marriage and stop investing in this unhealthy (yes, it is unhealthy) relationship, this *will* go further.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

moonshine, I also wonder myself if it isn't YOU who is interested in pursuing this.


----------



## moonshine

Okay, Okay, I get it. I'm a horrible person on a path to distruction and ruin. Thanks for the candid advice before i end up on the Divorce forum.


----------



## Ikaika

moonshine said:


> Okay, Okay, I get it. I'm a horrible person on a path to distruction and ruin. Thanks for the candid advice before i end up on the Divorce forum.



You are not a horrible person... Don't read more into responses than what is given. However, you ask for advice on the thoughts of another person. I'm not a psychic and certainly not the brightest bulb here on TAM and unable to speculate on anything further than what you are presenting to us. I know that there are more to stories than often presented and your friend is not here neither is your H. So I read what you have written and tried only to interpret that much. 

So, simple Q - do you feel you invest as much time and energy in your relationship with your H as you do with this male friend?


----------



## EllisRedding

moonshine said:


> Okay, Okay, I get it. I'm a horrible person on a path to distruction and ruin. Thanks for the candid advice before i end up on the Divorce forum.


As mentioned, no one is calling you a horrible person. I think part of the tone of the responses is in response to what seems to be rather nonchalant responses by you, which does come off as odd and a red flag.

I guess the one question asked, if roles were reversed, your husband had developed a very close relationship with a female that you barely knew, spent a lot of time together, developed an emotional bond, and was receiving gifts from her, would you think it ok?


----------



## Ikaika

Btw, I'm pro-marriage, if it can be saved, and I have no reason to judge anyone. We are all fallible to some degree or another.


----------



## moonshine

Yes, I invest much more time in my husband. I see my friend 4x a year and don't interact with him when we're not together. it's top of mind because i just saw him.
I want my marriage to be stronger though and need to fix what's going on there. Thanks all.


----------



## Ikaika

moonshine said:


> Yes, I invest much more time in my husband. I see my friend 4x a year and don't interact with him when we're not together. it's top of mind because i just saw him.
> 
> I want my marriage to be stronger though and need to fix what's going on there. Thanks all.



Ok, I appreciate that you want to make your marriage stronger, so let's concentrate on that point. 

If you could list three areas that need the most work in your marriage what would that list look like? Btw, some men fantasize about finally getting the girl at the "end of the movie", just so you know. Be careful with *any* investment with this male friend.


----------



## Yeswecan

moonshine said:


> Thanks everyone. There is a lot of truth here. Sometimes a 3rd party can see the obvious much more clearly that I can.
> The question that has been posed most is "does my husband know". Of course he does. He is the first person i go to with everything. my friend is a supplement to things like jobs, death, etc. Much in the way that girls or guys have circles of friends for support.
> My hubby also knows about the gifts - they are small in dollar value. I have no secrets from hubby and to date, he has been fine and supportive of my having other friends, including this one.
> 
> That said, I am not saying that everything is fine either. That's why I made the post. I think it's fair to say that there are some deficiencies in my marriage that my friend is probably filling in some ways. I'm trying to address those voids without success. I'll post a different thread in another forum about that.
> 
> The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


It is very hard to answer your questions when there is missing details. You know, missing and void in your marriage that somehow coworker is filling. Just a minor oversight certainly.


----------



## happy as a clam

moonshine said:


> *Okay, Okay, I get it. I'm a horrible person *on a path to distruction and ruin. Thanks for the candid advice before i end up on the Divorce forum.


You are NOT a horrible person.

You are a troubled person.

You can turn this around. You and your husband need intensive (crisis) counseling. You and your therapist need to LEVEL with him about his drunkeness (alcoholism??) and get into supportive therapy immediately.

You can save this. If you're BOTH willing to do the work.

I am rooting for you both. 

Ditch the "friend." He is not a friend. He is an opportunist. Opportunists prey on those who are weak and in need...


----------



## unbelievable

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?



The only straight male on this earth who thinks of you as a sister is one who emerged from your mother's womb. If he did not, he is a heterosexual male who sees you as a heterosexual female... He may be consistently or mostly capable of controlling his desires, but he desires what every other straight male on this earth desires from straight women. Doesn't matter if he's friends with your husband. Unless you wish to encourage a sexual encounter with this guy, you will avoid spending too much time with him or being alone with him.


----------



## happy as a clam

unbelievable said:


> The only straight male on this earth who thinks of you as a sister is one who emerged from your mother's womb.


So true, so true.



unbelievable said:


> ...but *he desires what every other straight male on this earth desires from straight women*


:iagree: His intentions are not "Pure." *He desires SEX. With YOU.* Plain and simple.



unbelievable said:


> Unless you wish to encourage a sexual encounter with this guy, you will avoid spending too much time with him or being alone with him.


Completely agree!!!

Ditch this "sexual opportunist." One night in bed, and HIS needs are met. YOURS are just turned upside-down.


----------



## Yeswecan

moonshine said:


> PS - i guess not. Thanks for the advice. I value my husband and kids more and will dial in back.


Excellent plan of attack. I would like to add, the amount of time dwelling on your co-worker is time better well spent with your H reconnecting and sorting the areas you feel their is a void. What your H does not know he can not repair or work on.


----------



## moonshine

Bottom line - my husband doen't open up to me...about anything. He drinks very rarely, but when he does, he opens up. I love what's inside, i just rarely see it. 
My friend, open up, communicates on an intellectual level that i'm missing at home. Simple, dangerous. I get it. 
My hubby and I need new things to bond over. Will work on it.


----------



## Yeswecan

moonshine said:


> Okay, Okay, I get it. I'm a horrible person on a path to distruction and ruin. Thanks for the candid advice before i end up on the Divorce forum.


You are not a horrible person. You are a person confused and full of questions. Instead of going headlong into oblivion with the coworker you started asking questions and looking for answers. That is the correct path MS. 

Kudos to you!


----------



## Ikaika

moonshine said:


> Bottom line - my husband doen't open up to me...about anything. He drinks very rarely, but when he does, he opens up. I love what's inside, i just rarely see it.
> 
> My friend, open up, communicates on an intellectual level that i'm missing at home. Simple, dangerous. I get it.
> 
> My hubby and I need new things to bond over. Will work on it.



You are seeking an emotional connection I get it. Btw, males seek that as well (we also seek the physical connection, as do women - we are different in some aspects but not completely). 

I wish your H were on here as well, it is always hard to only get one side of the story. Im not asking that you invite him, but the two of you need to find that emotional connection again. Would he, your H, be open to marriage counseling (MC)?


----------



## Yeswecan

moonshine said:


> Yes, I invest much more time in my husband. I see my friend 4x a year and don't interact with him when we're not together. it's top of mind because i just saw him.
> I want my marriage to be stronger though and need to fix what's going on there. Thanks all.


And I hope that you get your marriage stronger. A lot of time has been invested in your marriage. It is hard work. You, like most, would like to see it flourish and not wither on the vine.


----------



## Yeswecan

moonshine said:


> Bottom line - my husband doen't open up to me...about anything. He drinks very rarely, but when he does, he opens up. I love what's inside, i just rarely see it.
> My friend, open up, communicates on an intellectual level that i'm missing at home. Simple, dangerous. I get it.
> My hubby and I need new things to bond over. Will work on it.


It is hard to have a one sided conversation. It will be hard to get your H out of his shell. May I suggest talking with your H about something that he will start singing like a canary. Hobby or interest. Once you get a person to start talking about their interest soon they will share much of everything.


----------



## unbelievable

No gazelle plays with a normal adult lion and suffers from an illusion that the lion feels like a sibling towards her. Given the proper circumstances, he'll eagerly pry you out of your knickers. I don't care if he's married, you're married, he's friends with your husband, or if he's the Pope. He's still a guy and you're still a woman.


----------



## Ikaika

moonshine,

Keep us posted. I know some comments are hard to hear, but just know that there are enough of us here on TAM to support your marriage. Just be honest with us and yourself.


----------



## Nomorebeans

She has also said they have been "there for each other" through serious life events and has admitted he makes up for the emotional connection that's lacking in her marriage.

I haven't spoken to what I think his motives are, myself, but I think moonshine is on a slippery slope, as do many others here.

You're focusing on a few people's perception of his motives. That's immaterial. Her relationship with this friend is inappropriate and dangerous in terms of her marriage.


----------



## Yeswecan

The entire issue is not the co-worker or male hormone driven escapades with female friends. The issue is moonshine who appears to be entering the land of fantasy and unicorns.


----------



## Ikaika

Yeswecan said:


> The entire issue is not the co-worker or male hormone driven escapades with female friends. The issue is moonshine who appears to be entering the land of fantasy and unicorns.



I agree. We don't know this male friend, we only know what moonshine is letting us in on. My opinion, let's focus on moonshine and take her at her word that she wants to strengthen her marriage. I think that is why she is here.


----------



## Amplexor

This thread has been cleaned up. Please keep your posts directed at the OP. The debate on if a male can be "just friends" with a female can be debated on its own thread in the clubhouse or lounge. There is plenty of room there for debate, jocularity and debauchery. Thanks.


----------



## always_alone

Yeswecan said:


> The entire issue is not the co-worker or male hormone driven escapades with female friends. The issue is moonshine who appears to be entering the land of fantasy and unicorns.


Because she dares to have an OS friend that fills some emotional needs? Even though she has taken every precaution to protect ye boundaries of her relationship?

Moonshine:. I'm very sorry to appear to have high-jacked your thread with a tangent on the question of whether women and men can have opposite sex friends. That was not at all my intent. What I hoped to provide was a different perspective on your situation. 

I can also see that you have already understood and taken to heart the advice that you do need to tread carefully, especially if your sudden concern about this friend is triggered by your own feelings of void in the relationship with your husband. And from all that you've written, it seems to me that you have done a very fine job of respecting your husband and your marriage.

I just wanted to reassure you that just because you have an OS friend, it doesn't necessarily mean you are living in a fantasy world of unicorns and rainbows, or that your trust and liking for your friend is utterly misguided and misplaced because you are too naive to see his ulterior motives. It really could be that he just genuinely cares about you as a friend, and that you can care about him, all without either of you crossing appropriate marital boundaries.


----------



## EllisRedding

^ There we go again, interesting definition of just an "OS friend" ... anyways ....


----------



## MachoMcCoy

always_alone said:


> Not gay, didn't want to screw. You have to trust me on this. Not every man thinks the way you do. No matter how much you think you are representative of all.


They may not. But you're a chick. You have no clue. Even IF you read this situation correctly, your situation was EXTREMELY rare. And I still don't fully believe you. Either because you're lying or mistaken. I'll take ZERO "I really do just like her as a friend"'s from men over ONE "I had a male friend who just wanted me as a friend once" from a chick with an agenda ANY day. 

Bad news gals. Your male BFF wants to **** you.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

And she asked it in the Men's Clubhouse, for gods sake. I wonder why?


----------



## EllisRedding

Fitnessfan said:


> Moonshine...one thing I do when I'm unsure if a male friend isn't clear on boundaries is to bring up my husband a lot. I'll say....I'm so excited Paul and I are going out tonight. I haven't seen him all week and I can't wait to spend some time with him or Paul and I had so much fun this weekend...we watched....and laughed and blah blah blah. I also compliment my husband, saying things like he is so nice, smart, honest, etc. and give examples of great things he does for me. If you are continuously making it clear how much you're into your spouse and how much you cherish him, the vibe changes and there is really no room for inappropriateness.


Interesting approach. I wonder then Moonshine, when you are with this guy, do you talk about your husband and your married life much around him, or is the focus really on your time with this guy?


----------



## Angelou

Get over yourself, you ARE MARRIED. So if your husband becomes "inseperable while they are together" with a single co worker friend, will you be ok with it?? Pleeeassee.


----------



## zillard

If OP wants to strengthen her marriage, she needs to first realize that this dude likely doesn't see her as a "sister". And she needs to act accordingly, due to her desire to strengthen her marriage. 

OP - quit investing emotional energy in this dude. It will NOT help your marriage. 
Quit receiving emotional energy from this dude. It will NOT help your marriage.

ONLY after that is done, can you focus on your marriage.

You came here, to a website about marriage, asking about the other dude. 
Your focus is completely off, IF you are worried about your marriage.

Shift it! Water the grass you have instead of worrying about your neighbor's lawn.


----------



## lizzy123

fast reliable and geunine hacker, if you are facing critical moment in your marriage or school grades, hit him up and he will provide you everything you want…trust me you need him….. [email protected]


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Fitnessfan said:


> To get men's opinion. Duh


So articulate.

My point was that a woman was saying my opinion was wrong. Like she has ANY idea what goes through the mind of a man.


----------



## always_alone

I just know that I have had many male friends that were absolutely just friends. And while there certainly are those that would like to tell me I have no clue, and that I am naive, that is actually all they were: friends. I have even been in the position of wanting more (when single), and they made it absolutely cleat to me that they liked me as a friend, very much enjoyed my company, but didn't want sex. It does happen, and it isn't even extremely rare.

I also know that my SO has had many female friends that were also just friends, and that he wasn't seeking sex with. I know some of his OS friends, and I know that when they hang out nothing is going to happen. Just as he knows that when I hang out with my OS friends, nothing is going to happen.

Just because OP has an OS friend doesn't mean she is betraying her marriage. She even said outright that only says nice things about her husband when with this guy, and only sees him rarely. I agree with some of the cautionary words here, because if she lets it, maybe it could get out of control. But woman or not, I happen to have legitimate experience that other people can choose to disbelieve if they want to, but doesn't invalidate it on bit.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

moonshine said:


> Bottom line - my husband doen't open up to me...about anything. He drinks very rarely, but when he does, he opens up. I love what's inside, i just rarely see it.
> My friend, open up, communicates on an intellectual level that i'm missing at home. Simple, dangerous. I get it.
> My hubby and I need new things to bond over. Will work on it.


Your husband feels too vulnerable to open up to you, if alcohol is disinhibiting enough to change that. If you want it to happen sober, you need to improve his ability to trust in you. Step one would be to be vulnerable with him first and open up to him, instead of having your heartfelt communications with someone else.

You could also catch your husband while he's disinhibited in other ways. See if you can get him to open up after sex!


----------



## BetrayedDad

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been casual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc.


I think everyone is complicating things. Sounds like a typical beta orbiter. Won't proactively go after you because he KNOWS that would fail but will just "be there" in case you have a weak moment and will happily jump in your pants. He's attracted to you without question. Guys are not close friends with women they are not attracted to. 



moonshine said:


> We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc.


Sure, he's just doing his due diligence to keep the connection up. He doesn't have to go home to you or deal with your "ugly" side so it's easy to continue network in the hopes you have a weak moment and he can get in your pants.



moonshine said:


> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?


And there you have it... It's working exactly as he planned. Your having weakness in your marriage. This guy is there, available, finally getting in your head, passively orbiting the last 10 years, just WAITING for the green light to bang you. He smells blood in the water. Hence, him upping his game lately. He's a shark and you're on the dinner menu. Tonight's special: Jumping into Moonshine's pants.



moonshine said:


> The other missing detail here (not sure how relevant it is) is that my friend does NOT want children. Ever. I have two beautiful, wonderful, yet challenging children.


That's not really relevant. What IS relevant is you considering whether he would be accepting of your kids. Obviously, you've imagined a "what if" scenario of you and him getting together and the implications of you have children.

Whether you admit it or not. You have ALREADY developed feelings for him. You are ALREADY in an EA. You wonder about his intentions, how he would receive your kids, you're fantasizing about him. He's an escape from your marriage which is at a low point right now. He doesn't have to actively try ruin your marriage. He just putting himself in position. Just waiting around for you to ruin yours. Then he's going to happily jump straight into your pants.

Oh, did I mention he wants to bone you? Fix your marriage before you give in to temptation. You're a time bomb waiting go or rather get off.


----------



## Propel

I've interpreted your question as how do I ensure that this relationship doesn't become more then a friendship. Others have made some good suggestions. My approach is different, so yeah, take the advice(s) that works best for your situation. 

To preserve the relationships you have with your friend and husband, you'll need a soft touch. One way to do it is with a bit of acting. Next time you meet this friend pretend you are upset with a married friend who cheated on her husband with a co-worker and say you'd never do that and consider it bottom of the pond scum behavior. This way he gets the message without you asking or telling him directly. It makes your boundaries clear and will cool his jets if he had some lingering hope of an affair.


----------



## LisaKane

You seem interested in this man to me. If you were not, the idea that he wants more without detaching from him to protect your marriage would have occurred to you on your own.


----------



## just got it 55

moonshine said:


> I have never spoken with my friend about my marraige in any way, other than good things about my hubby. That seemed like crossing a line. I never wanted to send that signal.
> I never thought I was sending a signal that i wanted more by accepting gifts or anything else. I never wanted to flatter myself in that way as to assume he would. When I was in college i had a different male BFF who I thought wanted more and he shut me down quickly! I would never assume someone else's feelings.
> Perhaps I have sent inappropriate signals. Thanks for suggesting that.* My husband knows all and has never said anything - perhaps that's reflective of problems at home.*
> At the end of the day, i'm thankful to have all the people who are in my life in some way. I'm thankful to have friends I trust, both male and female.
> Never occurred to me I was sending signals. That must be terribly confusing coming from a married woman with children.
> I guess guys would assume it's a aset up for potential f***buddies and nothing else?


This............. are you seeking validation ? somehow I believe this is the heart of the matter

Tell your Husband everything. YOU open up .Let HIM listen , and listen he will .Believe me when a women/wife is speaking about another man and one in particular you have his attention.Especially if it is a regular thing.

His actions will speak his truth.

What is it that you want to hear from your husband?

55


----------



## LonelyGuy69

Let me give you the other guys perspective on this, as this is exactly where I am today. 
I met this woman few years ago, going from a hi, to a quick chat, to coffee at her house, to a trip up town . She is in a relationship although not married. Now initially it just seemed like friends, but then I started to see things that may or may not have been there! Signs of flirting, the invitation into her house etc, now while she was able to talk about her relationship with me, initially it was just general moans about unhelpfullness, not wanting to go out etc, then it was like she would get miserable when he came home, he won't really commit etc. so I saw it as her being unhappy in the relationship. I'd always thought she was attractive, but until I got to know her didn't realise how much I felt for her. So somewhere along the line you have given off signals that you may be interested in this guy, and he's picked up on them. Do you know for sure he's been single for 10 years, or has he just told you that? That way he's always free should you want to take things further. 
Many people have said that I should walk away, I'm messing with her relationship, which I can see, but she also has that option, just like you do. If you don't want more than friendship, set the boundaries, don't make yourself available to him all the time, delay replying to texts, emails etc, soon he will get the message. And maybe he will cool off too. But whilst mine has only been. Few years 10 years is a long time friendship to just walk away from. I'd agree with the person that said, use the scenario that someone you know has cheated on her husband with a co worker, and make it clear that's something you will never do, if you leave things open he will always be in hope.


----------



## alexm

moonshine said:


> I'm married. I've been caual work friends with a single guy for about 10 years. Over the last year, we've grown a lot closer. We NEVER discuss relationship things, but we've been there for each other during family deaths, major job changes, etc. We have a blast together and really "get" each other. Lately, he makes more of an effort to be with me. Staying longer on business trips, bringing me small gifts back from trips, etc. However, since we live in separate cities, we can go months without talking. When we're in the same city, we're inseparable.
> I've always told myself we're like brother-sister, but lately, i'm not so sure. He would never try to break up my marriage. But I can't help but wondering what he would want, if i were single?
> I won't cheat on my husband and don't want to ruin my friendship. If he's in no way interested in more, then i don't have to worry. Thoughts?



Late to the party, as usual, sorry!

There's definitely a high likelihood that he's interested in more, however he may never "make a move" or do anything to break you and your husband up, or anything nefarious like that. Not all men are like that.

Given that you see him only occasionally, and that you've been friends for many, many years, I would venture a guess that if was going to make a move, he'd have done it by now. Not many people are quite that patient if they're after something.

I'm married, and I have female friends who are married, and it'd be ridiculous for me to say I'm not attracted in one way or the other to some of them. And vice versa. And the same goes for my wife, and her married male friends, as well. Sometimes there's just an attraction (of any kind) present.

He may genuinely enjoy your company, and yes, he may be sexually or romantically attracted to you, but there are many men (and women) out there that can control themselves and remain "just friends". It's not recommended, as one thing can easily turn into the other, but all the same. If the friendship is important to both of you, then I say continue it, but be aware of signals, lines, and getting "too" close to one another. And keep your husband in the loop.


----------



## pragmaster

Why can't married people have opposite sex friends? 

There is a crazy phenomenon out there that should be coined. When someone gets married you pretty much don't see them anymore. Friend that make an effort to hang out with a married person are super valuable, IMO. 

He's your friend. He likes you. That's for sure. I wouldn't be friends with someone I don't like! Friends do nice things for each other. 

The fact that he HASN'T made a move is pretty clear that he respects your boundaries. Maybe he's lonely these days. Be gentle. 

Talk to him about it if it really bothers you. Keep your husband in the loop, but do it in a way that doesn't create tension. If you value your other friend, you may end up resenting your husband if he doesn't let you hang with him. 

Fear & jealousy do many things.


----------



## sparrow555

Would you be ok if your husband has a similar relationship with another woman ?


----------

