# The Abuse Thread



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

This thread for all abuse issues. What it is and what it is not. How to deal with it and how to not deal with it. Articles are welcome as well as personal experiences, success stories, and current struggles. If another thread is being jacked, if it is ok with the mods, they can pick up the conversation here and allow others to chime in and vet ideas. Encourage thread jacks to move to here when hashing this issue. I think everyone being educated on abuse is a good thing.

I'll post the articles on the cycles of abuse and a few others shortly.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Cycles of Abuse:*

The cycle usually goes in the following order, and will repeat until the conflict is stopped, usually by the survivor entirely abandoning the relationship or some form of intervention. The cycle can occur hundreds of times in an abusive relationship, the total cycle taking anywhere from a few hours, to a year or more to complete. However, the length of the cycle usually diminishes over time so that the "reconciliation" and "calm" stages may disappear,[citation needed] violence becomes more intense and the cycles become more frequent.

*1: Tension building*

Stress builds from the pressures of daily life, like conflict over children, marital issues, misunderstandings, or other family conflicts. It also builds as the result of illness, legal or financial problems, unemployment, or catastrophic events, like floods, rape or war. During this period, the abuser feels ignored, threatened, annoyed or wronged. The feeling lasts on average several minutes to hours, it may last as much as several months.

To prevent violence, the victim may try to reduce the tension by becoming compliant and nurturing. Or, to get the abuse over with, prepare for the violence or lessen the degree of injury, the victim may provoke the batterer. "However, at no time is the batterer justified in engaging in violent or abusive behavior," said Scott Allen Johnson, author of Physical Abusers and Sexual Offenders.

*2: Flash Point*

Characterized by outbursts of violent, abusive incidents which may be preceded by verbal abuse and include psychological abuse. During this stage the abuser attempts to dominate his/her partner (survivor) with the use of domestic violence.

In intimate partner violence, children are negatively affected by having witnessed the violence and the partner's relationship degrades as well. The release of energy reduces the tension, and the abuser may feel or express that the victim "had it coming" to them.

*3: Reconciliation/honeymoon*

The perpetrator may begin to feel remorse, guilty feelings, or fear that their partner will leave or call the police. The victim feels pain, fear, humiliation, disrespect, confusion, and may mistakenly feel responsible.

Characterized by affection, apology, or, alternatively, ignoring the incident, this phase marks an apparent end of violence, with assurances that it will never happen again, or that the abuser will do his or her best to change. During this stage the abuser may feel or claim to feel overwhelming remorse and sadness. Some abusers walk away from the situation with little comment, but most will eventually shower the survivor with love and affection. The abuser may use self-harm or threats of suicide to gain sympathy and/or prevent the survivor from leaving the relationship. Abusers are frequently so convincing, and survivors so eager for the relationship to improve, that survivors (who are often worn down and confused by longstanding abuse) stay in the relationship.

*4: Calm*

During this phase (which is often considered an element of the honeymoon/reconciliation phase), the relationship is relatively calm and peaceable. During this period the abuser may agree to engage in counseling, ask for forgiveness, and create a normal atmosphere. In intimate partner relationships, the perpetrator may buy presents or the couple may engage in passionate sex. Over time, the batterer's apologies and requests for forgiveness become less sincere and are generally stated to prevent separation or intervention. However, interpersonal difficulties will inevitably arise, leading again to the tension building phase. The effect of the continual cycle may include loss of love, contempt, distress, and/or physical disability. Intimate partners may separate, divorce or, at the extreme, someone may be killed.

Source: Wikipedia/Cycles of Abuse


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

@always_alone @marduk

so, do you rehab the dog or get rid of it


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Blossom Leigh said:


> @always_alone @marduk
> 
> so, do you rehab the dog or get rid of it


It depends. But whatever you do, don't kick it again.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

So glad I'm not in this cycle anymore. It took so many years to fully realize that I didn't need to continue my part of the cycle, the placating, the defensive walls, etc. Hurts to see loved ones still trapped in it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Blossom Leigh said:


> @always_alone @marduk
> 
> so, do you rehab the dog or get rid of it


As A_A says, it depends. Does the person want to change, or does it even recognize that there's a problem?

The specific dynamic where an abused woman that enters a different relationship and abuses her husband is an interesting one, however. I've been there.

And what is very fascinating, and difficult is the level of cognitive dissonance -- or perhaps compartmentalization that happens.

Because what that woman may find is acceptable to do may look to many like abuse, and what that woman finds acceptable to have done to her may have very little tolerance.

In other words, I get to hit/yell/insult you, but it cannot go the other way around. And because of willful blindness, it gets ignored by the person doing the hitting/yelling/insulting, because it places them in a privileged position.

It gets even more fascinating when the one receiving the hitting/yelling/insulting declares it to be good. Which is what part of me wanted to do when it happened -- label it cathartic.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Physical abuse* is any intentional and unwanted contact with you or something close to your body.

Sometimes abusive behavior does not cause pain or even leave a bruise, but it’s still unhealthy. Examples of physical abuse are:


•Scratching, punching, biting, strangling or kicking.
•Throwing something at you such as a phone, book, shoe or plate.
•Pulling your hair.
•Pushing or pulling you.
•Grabbing your clothing.
•Using a gun, knife, box cutter, bat, mace or other weapon.
•Smacking your bottom.
•Forcing you to have sex or perform a sexual act.
•Grabbing your face to make you look at them.
•Grabbing you to prevent you from leaving or to force you to go somewhere.

*Escaping Physical Abuse*

Start by learning that you are not alone. More than one in 10 high school students have already experienced some form of physical aggression from a dating partner, and many of these teens did not know what to do when it happened. If you are in a similar situation:

•Realize this behavior is wrong.
•Talk to an adult, friend or family member that you trust.
•Create a safety plan.
•Consider getting a restraining order.
•Do not accept or make excuses for your partner’s abusive behavior.
•Remember that physical abuse is never your fault.

*Protecting Yourself from Physical Abuse*

Unhealthy or abusive relationships usually get worse. It is important to know the warning signs to prevent more serious harm. If you are in an unhealthy or abusive relationship, consider making a safety plan. Chat with a peer advocate for more information.

http://www.loveisrespect.org/is-this-abuse/types-of-abuse/#tab-id-1


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Emotional abuse* includes non-physical behaviors such as threats, insults, constant monitoring or “checking in,” excessive texting, humiliation, intimidation, isolation or stalking.

There are many behaviors that qualify as emotional or verbal abuse:

•Calling you names and putting you down.
•Yelling and screaming at you.
•Intentionally embarrassing you in public.
•Preventing you from seeing or talking with friends and family.
•Telling you what to do and wear.
•Using online communities or cell phones to control, intimidate or humiliate you.
•Blaming your actions for their abusive or unhealthy behavior.
•Stalking you.
•Threatening to commit suicide to keep you from breaking up with them.
•Threatening to harm you, your pet or people you care about.
•Making you feel guilty or immature when you don’t consent to sexual activity.
•Threatening to expose your secrets such as your sexual orientation or immigration status.
•Starting rumors about you.
•Threatening to have your children taken away.

*Is Emotional Abuse Really Abuse?*

A relationship can be unhealthy or abusive even without physical violence. Verbal abuse may not cause physical damage, but it does cause emotional pain and scarring. It can also lead to physical violence if the relationship continues on the unhealthy path its on. Learn more about how to recognize emotional abuse by checking out our Power and Control Wheel.

Sometimes verbal abuse is so bad that you actually start believing what your partner says. You begin to think you’re stupid, ugly or fat. You agree that nobody else would ever want to be in a relationship with you. Constantly being criticized and told you aren’t good enough causes you to lose confidence and lowers your self esteem. As a result, you may start to blame yourself for your partner’s abusive behavior.

*Remember* — emotional abuse is never your fault. In fact, your partner may just be trying to control or manipulate you into staying in the relationship. Talk to someone you trust, like a parent, friend or teacher, about the situation and make a safety plan. You can also chat with a peer advocate for more help when dealing with verbal abuse.

http://www.loveisrespect.org/is-this-abuse/types-of-abuse/#tab-id-2


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

@jld I hope you take a cold hard look at BL's last post.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Sexual abuse* refers to any action that pressures or coerces someone to do something sexually they don’t want to do. It can also refer to behavior that impacts a person’s ability to control their sexual activity or the circumstances in which sexual activity occurs, including oral sex, rape or restricting access to birth control and condoms.

It is important to know that just because the victim “didn’t say no,” doesn’t mean that they meant “yes.” When someone does not resist an unwanted sexual advance, it doesn’t mean that they consented. Sometimes physically resisting can put a victim at a bigger risk for further physical or sexual abuse.

Some think that if the victim didn’t resist, that it doesn’t count as abuse. That’s not true. It’s still is. This myth is hurtful because it makes it more difficult for the victim to speak out and more likely that they will blame themselves. Whether they were intoxicated or felt pressured, intimidated or obligated to act a certain way, it’s never the victim’s fault.

Some examples of sexual assault and abuse are:
•Unwanted kissing or touching.
•Unwanted rough or violent sexual activity.
•Rape or attempted rape.
•Refusing to use condoms or restricting someone’s access to birth control.
•Keeping someone from protecting themselves from sexually transmitted infections (STIs).
•Sexual contact with someone who is very drunk, drugged, unconscious or otherwise unable to give a clear and informed “yes” or “no.”
•Threatening someone into unwanted sexual activity.
•Pressuring or forcing someone to have sex or perform sexual acts.
•Using sexual insults toward someone.

*Keep in Mind*
•Everyone has the right to decide what they do or don’t want to do sexually. Not all sexual assaults are violent “attacks.”
•Most victims of sexual assault know the assailant.
•Both men and women can be victims of sexual abuse.
•Both men and women can be perpetrators of sexual abuse.
•Sexual abuse can occur in same-sex and opposite-sex relationships.
•Sexual abuse can occur between two people who have been sexual with each other before, including people who are married or dating.
•Sexual activity in a relationship should be fun! Get our tips for navigating sex and healthy relationships.

*What to Do*

If you have been sexually assaulted, first get to a safe place away from the attacker. You may be scared, angry and confused, but remember the abuse was in no way your fault. You have options. You can:
•Contact Someone You Trust. Many people feel fear, guilt, anger, shame and/or shock after they have been sexually assaulted. Having someone there to support you as you deal with these emotions can make a big difference. It may be helpful to speak with a counselor, someone at a sexual assault hotline or a support group. Get more tips for building a support system.
•Report What Happened to the Police. If you do decide to report what happened, you will have a stronger case if you do not alter or destroy any evidence. This means don’t shower, wash your hair or body, comb your hair or change your clothes, even if that is hard to do. If you are nervous about going to the police station, it may help to bring a friend with you. There may also be sexual assault advocates in your area who can assist you and answer your questions.
•Go to an Emergency Room or Health Clinic. It is very important for you to seek health care as soon as you can after being assaulted. You will be treated for any injuries and offered medications to help prevent pregnancy and STIs.

Types of Abuse ? www.loveisrespect.org


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Financial abuse* can be very subtle — telling you what you can and cannot buy or requiring you to share control of your bank accounts. At no point does someone you are dating have the right to use money or how you spend it to control you.

Here are some examples of financially abusive behavior:

•Giving you an allowance and closely watching what you buy.
•Placing your paycheck in their account and denying you access to it.
•Keeping you from seeing shared bank accounts or records.
•Forbidding you to work or limiting the hours you do.
•Preventing you from going to work by taking your car or keys.
•Getting you fired by harassing you, your employer or coworkers on the job.
•Hiding or stealing your student financial aid check or outside financial support.
•Using your social security number to obtain credit without your permission.
•Using your child’s social security number to claim an income tax refund without your permission.
•Maxing out your credit cards without your permission.
•Refusing to give you money, food, rent, medicine or clothing.
•Using funds from your children’s tuition or a joint savings account without your knowledge.
•Spending money on themselves but not allowing you to do the same.
•Giving you presents and/or paying for things like dinner and expecting you to somehow return the favor.
•Using their money to hold power over you because they know you are not in the same financial situation as they are.
*
I’m Experiencing Financial Abuse*

If your partner does any of these things, you are probably in an unhealthy or abusive relationship. Financial abuse is usually coupled with emotional or physical abuse.

If you are not in control over your finances, or if your partner has removed money from your bank account, it can seem very scary to leave an abusive relationship. There are many organizations who can help you “get back on your feet” and get control over your finances — some even provide short-term loans to cover important expenses as you escape an abusive relationship. Chat with a peer advocate to learn more about local resources.

You may also want to talk to someone you trust, like a friend, family member or legal professional, about getting a protection order. Whether you decide to leave or stay, consider making a safety plan that includes setting aside funds in a secret location.

Types of Abuse ? www.loveisrespect.org


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Emotional Abuse from www.outofthefog.net*



Definition:

*Emotional Abuse* - Any pattern of behavior directed at one individual by another which promotes in them a destructive sense of Fear, Obligation or Guilt (FOG).

*The Bruise that Doesn’t Show*

Many people who are victims of abuse live in homes or environments where they have become so accustomed to the situation they consider it normal. They do not recognize it even IS abuse sometimes, because there is no physical injury; instead an ongoing emotional barrage takes place which can be just as damaging.

*Examples of Emotional Abuse*

•Alienation - The act of cutting off or interfering with an individual's relationships with others.
•Baiting - A provocative act used to solicit an angry, aggressive or emotional response from another individual.
•Belittling, Condescending and Patronizing - This kind of speech is a passive-aggressive approach to giving someone a verbal put-down while maintaining a facade of reasonableness or friendliness.
•Blaming - The practice of identifying a person or people responsible for creating a problem, rather than identifying ways of dealing with the problem.
•Bullying - Any systematic action of hurting a person from a position of relative physical, social, economic or emotional strength.
•Bunny Boiling - Bunny Boiling is a reference to an iconic scene in the movie "Fatal Attraction" in which the main character Alex, who suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, kills the family's pet rabbit and boils it on the stove. Bunny Boiling has become a popular reference to how people sometimes exhibit their rage by behaving destructively towards symbolic, important or treasured possessions or representations of those whom they wish to hurt, control or intimidate.
•Cheating - Sharing a romantic or intimate relationship with somebody when you are already committed to a monogamous relationship with someone else.
•Compulsive Lying - Compulsive Lying is a term used to describe lying frequently out of habit, without much regard for the consequences to others and without having an obvious motive to lie. A compulsive liar is someone who habitually lies.
•Cruelty to Animals - Acts of Cruelty to Animals have been statistically discovered to occur more often in people who suffer from personality disorders than in the general population.
•Dependency - An inappropriate and chronic reliance by an adult individual on another individual for their health, subsistence, decision making or personal and emotional well-being.
•Emotional Blackmail - A system of threats and punishments used in an attempt to control someone’s behaviors.
•Engulfment - An unhealthy and overwhelming level of attention and dependency on another person, which comes from imagining or believing one exists only within the context of that relationship.
•False Accusations - Patterns of unwarranted or exaggerated criticism directed towards someone else.
•Favoritism - Favoritism is the practice of systematically giving positive, preferential treatment to one child, subordinate or associate among a family or group of peers.
•FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt - The acronym FOG, for Fear, Obligation and Guilt, was first coined by Susan Forward & Donna Frazier in Emotional Blackmail and describes feelings that a person often has when in a relationship with someone who suffers from a personality disorder. Our website, Out of the FOG, is named after this acronym.
•Frivolous Litigation - The use of unmerited legal proceedings to hurt, harass or gain an economic advantage over an individual or organization.
•Gaslighting - The practice of brainwashing or convincing a mentally healthy individual that they are going insane or that their understanding of reality is mistaken or false. The term “Gaslighting” is based on the 1944 MGM movie “Gaslight”.
•Harassment - Any sustained or chronic pattern of unwelcome behavior by one individual towards another.
•Hoovers & Hoovering - A Hoover is a metaphor taken from the popular brand of vacuum cleaners, to describe how an abuse victim trying to assert their own rights by leaving or limiting contact in a dysfunctional relationship, gets “sucked back in” when the perpetrator temporarily exhibits improved or desirable behavior.
•Hysteria - An inappropriate over-reaction to bad news or disappointments, which diverts attention away from the real problem and towards the person who is having the reaction.
•Imposed Isolation - When abuse results in a person becoming isolated from their support network, including friends and family.
•Infantilization - Treating a child as if they are much younger than their actual age.
•Intimidation - Any form of veiled, hidden, indirect or non-verbal threat.
•Invalidation - The creation or promotion of an environment which encourages an individual to believe that their thoughts, beliefs, values or physical presence are inferior, flawed, problematic or worthless.
•Mirroring - Imitating or copying another person's characteristics, behaviors or traits.
•Name-Calling - Use of profane, derogatory or dehumanizing terminology to describe another individual or group.
•No-Win Scenarios - When you are manipulated into choosing between two bad options
•Objectification - The practice of treating a person or a group of people like an object.
•Pathological Lying - Persistent deception by an individual to serve their own interests and needs with little or no regard to the needs and concerns of others. A pathological liar is a person who habitually lies to serve their own needs.
•Perfectionism - The maladaptive practice of holding oneself or others to an unrealistic, unattainable or unsustainable standard of organization, order, or accomplishment in one particular area of living, while sometimes neglecting common standards of organization, order or accomplishment in other areas of living.
•Projection - The act of attributing one's own feelings or traits to another person and imagining or believing that the other person has those same feelings or traits.
•Proxy Recruitment - A way of controlling or abusing another person by manipulating other people into unwittingly backing “doing the dirty work”
•Push-Pull - A chronic pattern of sabotaging and re-establishing closeness in a relationship without appropriate cause or reason.
•Ranking and Comparing - Drawing unnecessary and inappropriate comparisons between individuals or groups.
•Raging, Violence and Impulsive Aggression - Explosive verbal, physical or emotional elevations of a dispute. Rages threaten the security or safety of another individual and violate their personal boundaries.
•Sabotage - The spontaneous disruption of calm or status quo in order to serve a personal interest, provoke a conflict or draw attention.
•Scapegoating - Singling out one child, employee or member of a group of peers for unmerited negative treatment or blame.
•Self-Harm - Any form of deliberate, premeditated injury, such as cutting, poisoning or overdosing, inflicted on oneself.
•Shaming - The difference between blaming and shaming is that in blaming someone tells you that youdid something bad, in shaming someone tells you that you are something bad.
•Silent Treatment - A passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse in which displeasure, disapproval and contempt is exhibited through nonverbal gestures while maintaining verbal silence.
•Sleep Deprivation - The practice of routinely interrupting, impeding or restricting another person's sleep cycle.
•Splitting - The practice of regarding people and situations as either completely "good" or completely "bad".
•Stalking - Any pervasive and unwelcome pattern of pursuing contact with another individual.
•Targeted Humor, Mocking and Sarcasm - Any sustained pattern of joking, sarcasm or mockery which is designed to reduce another individual’s reputation in their own eyes or in the eyes of others.
•Testing - Repeatedly forcing another individual to demonstrate or prove their love or commitment to a relationship.
•Thought Policing - Any process of trying to question, control, or unduly influence another person's thoughts or feelings.
•Threats - Inappropriate, intentional warnings of destructive actions or consequences.

*What it Looks Like:*

- by Gary

Unlike a physical injury which usually heals in a short time, verbal and emotional abuse is usually cumulative.

When you are a victim of physical abuse at the hands of someone you love or someone who is supposed to love you, then you also become a victim of emotional abuse, even if no words are spoken.

Unlike physical wounds, that heal naturally leaving only a scar, verbal and emotional wounds, left untreated, tend not to heal. These wounds are often hidden out of sight and become a part of who we are and how we act.

Unlike physical wounds, which hurt us on the outside, verbal and emotional wounds go to the deepest parts of us. Any physical wound going so deep would be fatal, and left untreated long enough, prolonged verbal or emotional abuse can also be fatal.

Emotional abuse can happen without verbal abuse but verbal abuse naturally has emotional abuse attached to it.

I also believe that there has never been a member of this community here at Out of the FOG that hasn't at one time been exposed to some form of verbal or emotional abuse, regardless of what personality disorder or relationship they have dealt with. That seems to be universal to being a "Non-PD".

The injury which comes from verbal and emotional abuse is probably one of the most serious conditions we are left with and is probably connected to all the other effects we experience. In other words, emotional and verbal abuse is responsible for the rest of the iceberg.

The only vaccine I know of that protects against verbal and emotional abuse is a good sense of self and the only medicine that heals the wounds left by verbal and emotional abuse is again a good sense of self. That good sense of self comes from self-work, good boundaries and good therapy & support .

Children who are victims of verbal and emotional abuse are most vulnerable since they can't just walk away. This puts a great responsibility on any non-abusing parent present to protect or remove the child from the abuser. If they don't, another link in the chain may be welded together and the cycle may repeat, with those children ultimately watching their own children go through the same abuse.

I also believe that if a child grows up in an environment of sustained abuse that they will begin to expect it to be normal and justified.

*Examples of Verbal and Emotional Abuse*

- By Aames

*WHAT THEY DO:*
•Ridicule or insult you then tell you it's a joke, or that you have no sense of humor.
•Put down your beliefs, religion, race, heritage - or that of your family / friends.
•Withhold approval, appreciation or affection.
•Give you the silent treatment.
•Ignore direct questions...Walk away without answering.
•Criticize you, call you names, yell at you.
•Humiliate you privately or in public.
•Roll his or her eyes ... or mimic you when you talk.
•Disrespect or insult you, then tell you that you're too sensitive.
•Seem energized by arguing, while arguing exhausts you.
•Have unpredictable mood swings, alternating between good and bad for no apparent reason.
•"Twist" your words, somehow turning whatever you say against you.
•Complain about how badly you treat him or her.
•Threaten to leave, or threaten to throw you out.
•Say things that make you feel good, but do things that make you feel bad.
•Compliment you enough to keep you happy, yet criticize you enough to keep you insecure.
•Harass you about imagined affairs.
•Manipulate you with lies and contradictions.
•Act immature and selfish, yet accuse you of those behaviors.
•Question your every move and motive, somehow questioning your competence.
•Constantly interrupt you while you're trying to make your point.
•Make you feel like you can never win : damned if you do, damned if you don't.
•Incite you to rage, which is "proof" that you are the one with the "problem" - not them.
•Try to convince you that they are "right," while you are "wrong".
•Frequently say things that are later denied or accuse you of misunderstanding.

*What it feels like*

- By Aames

Abuse can have a confusing. hurtful. frightening effect which makes you feel emotionally unsafe. You may begin to doubt yourself, your senses, your opinions, memories, beliefs, feelings, abilities and judgment. You may begin to express your opinions less and less freely and find yourself doubting your sense of reality. You are likely to feel vulnerable, insecure, increasingly trapped and powerless. This may lead you to become defensive and increasingly depressed.

Abuse victims often find themselves "walking on eggshells" around the abuser, hyper vigilant and afraid of when - and how - to say something.

You may find yourself constantly on your "best" behavior around an abuser, unable to relax or enjoy the moment because you are always anticipating the worst. Even when the abuser is in a good mood, you are likely to keep waiting for "the other shoe to drop".

You may also begin to blame yourself for their bad mood, behaviors or actions and hope things will change, especially through your own love and understanding.

People who are abused often long for the nicer, caring side of their partner, family member, friend, boss or co-worker to come back. You may find yourself making excuses for their bad behavior and choosing to focus mainly on getting them back into their good behavior state.

*Coping with Emotional Abuse*

You have two basic options – remain present during an episode of abuse, or leave.

In the short run they are about equal in pain, but in the long run, leaving during an outburst is better. For one thing, leaving makes it harder for you to do something stupid yourself (such as retaliate). It also makes it impossible for anything worse to happen directly to you after you leave. Leaving during an outburst sends a clear “This is not OK” message. It won’t be appreciated, but it will not be forgotten quickly either.

Leaving also helps remind you that YOU are in control - not the person with the Personality Disorder - and it gives you an opportunity to debrief to a supportive friend.

It’s a good idea to have a plan of what you will do and where you will go the next time an outburst hits. This will make a gracious exit more possible the next time you are confronted with verbal or emotional abuse. It helps enormously to have a friend or family member you can pre-arrange with to show up at a moment’s notice whenever necessary. If not, maybe you can find a local low-cost hotel where you can get a safe room for the night.

You may want to have a ‘bail out’ kit which has your credit cards, essential medications and important documents already packed so you don’t need to linger when you need to get out in a hurry.

If at all possible, pre-arrange with a friend whom you can call (even during the night) just to talk to if you find yourself in a situation like this. Just having someone on the end of the line who won’t attack or judge you harshly for the way you feel is an enormous relief. You can also call a Domestic Violence hotline or crisis line for support and for a reality check. As the adage says: You didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it. 

*What NOT to do*

•Don’t remain in the same room with a person who is abusing you. Remove yourself from the situation as quickly as you safely can.
•Don’t try to handle it all on your own. Call for supportive help and call the police if any threats or violence occur.
•Don’t try to reason with someone who is abusing you. When you are confronted with aggressive behavior there can be a temptation to stand your ground, explain your position and argue for what you feel is right. A person who is trying to hurt you emotionally or verbally is unlikely to see reason.
•Don’t fight fire with fire and reciprocate. You will regret it and probably find yourself still apologizing for it years later.
•Don’t ignore it, steel yourself and tell yourself that you can handle it and that it does not affect you. Unless you are a robot your feelings are going to be hurt and your behavior is going to change far beyond the moment, whether you admit it or not. The reality is that when your boundaries are being crossed you are being hurt. Ignoring it increases the likelihood that the situation will repeat itself.
•Don’t hide it from others. Most long-term cases of abuse stay that way because the victim stays silent.

*What TO do*

•Remember you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it.
•Get yourself and any children out of the room and out of the house as quickly and safely as you can.
•If violence or threats of violence have occurred, call the police immediately.
•Stay away from the situation until the abuse stops and you feel calmer and safe.
•Call at least one trusted confidant and tell them what has happened.

Emotional Abuse ? Out of the FOG


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

These are fantastic Blossom, could I make a recommendation and have a post in regards of abuse towards men, most find it hard to identify let alone defend. 

Thank you.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*10 Steps to De-Escalate a Conflict*

By Linda Gryczan, Certified Mediator

If you are patient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow. Chinese proverb 

We humans have been programmed for centuries for fight or flight. While that might have saved our ancestors from the wooly mammoth, it is overkill in discussions with family, friends or neighbors. So it happened again. What started out as a reasonable discussion, turned into a shouting match. 

One way to change gears is to say something like,* "I want to talk with you, but not like this."* You might add, *"Why don’t we take a break and meet again later?"*

* Here are some thoughts on how to return to a more productive conversation*.

•If you use the break time to hone your arguments, create scathing comebacks, rehash your point of view with your best friend, or further convince yourself you are right, you will end up exactly where you left off. Instead, use the time for some self-reflection.
•De-escalate yourself. Have you allowed the other person to push your buttons? Do you like how you responded? What would you like to say and do differently? What do you need? Have you made your request clear and in a way the other can hear?
•Decide if the argument is about the subject at hand. What are the feelings behind the words? Recognize that we rarely change our minds as the result of clever arguments. More often, being accepted and understood as we are, frees up brain space, and allows the emotional flexibility to consider other options.
•Listen. Have you been listening to the same argument over and over again? Most likely the other person hasn’t felt heard. Acknowledging what someone says doesn’t mean that you agree, just that you understand. A good opener is something like, “It sounds like you want __, have I heard you correctly?”
•Watch your language. Making judgments, accusations and speaking in absolutes, is a sure fire way to get an argument going. Flexible language that can end a diatribe and open a discussion include, what if, could we try, would you be willing to, I wonder, I think, sometimes, it seems like, maybe.1
•Understand. Appreciate the feelings and position of the other. Withhold judgment. Allow others to have their feelings, whether they make sense to you or not. 
•Take a close look at your intention for this conversation. Are you trying to prove the other person wrong? Assuming your intention is honorable, what is the best way to convey it to the other person?
•Be respectful and expect respect. Disrespectful or abusive language is never acceptable. If you fear violence, get out now. 
•Let your voice and body language express an attitude of curiosity. Uncross your legs and arms. Relax. Remember wooly mammoths are extinct. It is safe to put your spear down. Think about what you like or admire about the other person.
•Turn complaints into clear requests for what you would like the other person to say or do. For example, turn "I hate it that you always leave the car on empty," to "You are welcome to use the car. Will you agree to return it with a full tank?" 

Improving communication helps us understand and be understood. It gets us more of what we want, with fewer hard feelings and less drama. It improves relationships and makes them stronger. If you have trouble doing this on your own, get some help. A religious leader, family member, therapist or mediator can help keep you on track.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> These are fantastic Blossom, could I make a recommendation and have a post in regards of abuse towards men, most find it hard to identify let alone defend.
> 
> Thank you.


Coming right up


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Excellent thread Blossom.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Domestic Violence Against Men*

*What Constitutes Domestic Violence?*

*Domestic violence against men is more common these days.*

*Are you a victim of verbal 
or emotional abuse?*

Violence is defined as any assault, battery, aggravated battery, sexual assault or battery, stalking, aggravated stalking, kidnapping, or false imprisonment, or any criminal offense resulting in physical injury or death.

Domestic violence is a pattern of behavior that is seen in intimate, personal or familial relationships. The aggressor has a need to control her/his victim. The effects of domestic violence reach all areas of life, such as, absenteeism from work, miscarriages, emotional and/or physical health related problems, as well as many other negative effects.

Researching stats about violence against men in relationships we found that a University of Florida study recently found women are more likely than men to "stalk, attack and abuse" their partners. Another recent study in the Journal of Family Violence found many male callers to a national hotline experienced high rates of severe violence from female partners who used violence to control them.

*Domestic Violence Against Men Is Not Uncommon*

*Men Are Victims Too*

Domestic violence is perpetrated by females and males but the majority of domestic violence is perpetrated upon women by men. Men are often the victims of domestic violence in an emotional or verbal sense, although more men are reporting physical abuse. Domestic violence affects the entire family. Domestic violence is usually hidden from outsiders, not talked about and a secret kept within the family unit. Male victims are embarrassed to file domestic violence injunctions if they are battered by their spouses or significant others.

Domestic violence usually progresses and should be reported to the authorities and/or a case filed in Court for domestic violence injunction. Victims of domestic violence fear reprisal, the loss of the family unit and the cost economically. The judge has the authority to order any relief that the Court deems necessary for the protection of the victim of the domestic violence. The Court can order counseling, restrict the perpetrator’s movement, or order monetary restitution. 
*
Stop the cycle of abuse and domestic violence towards men.*

*Effects on Children*

Unfortunately, children are dramatically affected by domestic violence. Many children grow up to be perpetrators of domestic violence if they were forced to witness acts of violence while growing up. You can stop the cycle of abuse. The Men's Rights Law Firm can help you.

*Domestic Violence and Divorce*

Many cases of domestic violence are filed when a marriage is on the rocks. Oftentimes domestic violence cases are filed in an effort to get an upper hand in a divorce case that is filed either simultaneously with the domestic violence case or shortly thereafter. It is imperative that the domestic violence case is aggressively defended.

The petitioner in the domestic violence case can be awarded custody of the minor children (time sharing), child support, exclusive use and possession of the marital home or residence, amongst other relief. The hearings are usually completed within one half hour or less and sometimes there is little opportunity to adequately present a case if you appear pro se (are not represented by an attorney). Too much is at stake. Domestic violence injunctions must not be taken lightly.

We Fight Domestic Violence Against Men

If you are a victim of the domestic violence claimed in the petition you will need to file a petition to protect your rights. The petition is filed against the other party. Both cases are usually heard by the Court at the same time and before the same judge. This could result in mutual restraining Orders being issued for the protection of both parties.



*Protective Injunctions - Restraining Orders*

Although these injunctions are called protective injunctions, they are better known by the general public as restraining orders. The order is put in place against the perpetrator to restrict that persons' behavior and/or movement.

*Domestic Violence Injunctions*

Any family or household member can seek an injunction against another family or household member. The person who requests the injunction, the petitioner, must have been a victim of domestic violence, or, he or she is in imminent danger of becoming the victim of an act of domestic violence. The petition must set out facts and circumstances that domestic violence exists. The petition must be sworn.

*Repeat Violence Injunction *

Any person who is the victim of repeat violence can seek an injunction against the person that causes the violence. There must be two incidences of violence or stalking with one incident having occurred within the last six months. Enforcement of these types of injunctions is usually through the criminal Court.
*
Dating Violence Injunction*

Any person who is the victim of dating violence can seek an injunction against the perpetrator of the violence. Dating violence occurs between individuals who have, or have had, a continuing and significant relationship of a romantic or intimate nature. The relationship must have existed within the past six months. Additionally, the relationship must have been characterized by the expectation of affection, or sexual involvement, and the relationship must have been involved over time and on a continuous basis.

*Preparation Must Begin Immediately To Protect Your Rights!*

Preparation for your hearing must be done immediately if you have been served with a temporary injunction for the protection of domestic violence.

What is a temporary injunction for the protection of domestic violence?

If you have been served with a temporary injunction for the protection of domestic violence there will be a hearing in the very near future that you must attend to protect your rights. Do not wait!!! Preparation for your hearing must begin immediately to protect your rights.

Getting the temporary injunction is done ex parte (the Court makes the decision to issue the injunction based on the alleged facts in the petition that is filed). The hearing is your opportunity to provide the true facts to the Court. A motion for the continuance of the hearing might need to be filed to get evidence to support/defend your case. A motion to dismiss might be appropriate if the alleged facts in the petition do not rise to the level necessary to sustain the issuance of an injunction or are too vague under the law.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

https://www.ted.com/talks/leslie_morgan_steiner_why_domestic_violence_victims_don_t_leave



* Leslie Morgan Steiner: 

Why domestic violence victims don't leave *


Video transcript:

00:11 

I'm here today to talk about a disturbing question, which has an equally disturbing answer. My topic is the secrets of domestic violence, and the question I'm going to tackle is the one question everyone always asks: Why does she stay? Why would anyone stay with a man who beats her? I'm not a psychiatrist, a social worker or an expert in domestic violence. I'm just one woman with a story to tell. 



00:42 

I was 22. I had just graduated from Harvard College. I had moved to New York City for my first job as a writer and editor at Seventeen magazine. I had my first apartment, my first little green American Express card, and I had a very big secret. My secret was that I had this gun loaded with hollow-point bullets pointed at my head by the man who I thought was my soulmate, many, many times. The man who I loved more than anybody on Earth held a gun to my head and threatened to kill me more times than I can even remember. I'm here to tell you the story of crazy love, a psychological trap disguised as love, one that millions of women and even a few men fall into every year. It may even be your story. 



01:39 

I don't look like a typical domestic violence survivor. I have a B.A. in English from Harvard College, an MBA in marketing from Wharton Business School. I've spent most of my career working for Fortune 500 companies including Johnson & Johnson, Leo Burnett and The Washington Post. I've been married for almost 20 years to my second husband and we have three kids together. My dog is a black lab, and I drive a Honda Odyssey minivan. (Laughter) 



02:08 

So my first message for you is that domestic violence happens to everyone -- all races, all religions, all income and education levels. It's everywhere. And my second message is that everyone thinks domestic violence happens to women, that it's a women's issue. Not exactly. Over 85 percent of abusers are men, and domestic abuse happens only in intimate, interdependent, long-term relationships, in other words, in families, the last place we would want or expect to find violence, which is one reason domestic abuse is so confusing. 



02:48 

I would have told you myself that I was the last person on Earth who would stay with a man who beats me, but in fact I was a very typical victim because of my age. I was 22, and in the United States, women ages 16 to 24 are three times as likely to be domestic violence victims as women of other ages, and over 500 women and girls this age are killed every year by abusive partners, boyfriends, and husbands in the United States. 



03:22 

I was also a very typical victim because I knew nothing about domestic violence, its warning signs or its patterns. 



03:30 

I met Conor on a cold, rainy January night. He sat next to me on the New York City subway, and he started chatting me up. He told me two things. One was that he, too, had just graduated from an Ivy League school, and that he worked at a very impressive Wall Street bank. But what made the biggest impression on me that first meeting was that he was smart and funny and he looked like a farm boy. He had these big cheeks, these big apple cheeks and this wheat-blond hair, and he seemed so sweet. 



04:05 

One of the smartest things Conor did, from the very beginning, was to create the illusion that I was the dominant partner in the relationship. He did this especially at the beginning by idolizing me. We started dating, and he loved everything about me, that I was smart, that I'd gone to Harvard, that I was passionate about helping teenage girls, and my job. He wanted to know everything about my family and my childhood and my hopes and dreams. Conor believed in me, as a writer and a woman, in a way that no one else ever had. And he also created a magical atmosphere of trust between us by confessing his secret, which was that, as a very young boy starting at age four, he had been savagely and repeatedly physically abused by his stepfather, and the abuse had gotten so bad that he had had to drop out of school in eighth grade, even though he was very smart, and he'd spent almost 20 years rebuilding his life. Which is why that Ivy League degree and the Wall Street job and his bright shiny future meant so much to him. If you had told me that this smart, funny, sensitive man who adored me would one day dictate whether or not I wore makeup, how short my skirts were, where I lived, what jobs I took, who my friends were and where I spent Christmas, I would have laughed at you, because there was not a hint of violence or control or anger in Conor at the beginning. I didn't know that the first stage in any domestic violence relationship is to seduce and charm the victim. 



05:51 

I also didn't know that the second step is to isolate the victim. Now, Conor did not come home one day and announce, "You know, hey, all this Romeo and Juliet stuff has been great, but I need to move into the next phase where I isolate you and I abuse you" — (Laughter) — "so I need to get you out of this apartment where the neighbors can hear you scream and out of this city where you have friends and family and coworkers who can see the bruises." Instead, Conor came home one Friday evening and he told me that he had quit his job that day, his dream job, and he said that he had quit his job because of me, because I had made him feel so safe and loved that he didn't need to prove himself on Wall Street anymore, and he just wanted to get out of the city and away from his abusive, dysfunctional family, and move to a tiny town in New England where he could start his life over with me by his side. Now, the last thing I wanted to do was leave New York, and my dream job, but I thought you made sacrifices for your soulmate, so I agreed, and I quit my job, and Conor and I left Manhattan together. I had no idea I was falling into crazy love, that I was walking headfirst into a carefully laid physical, financial and psychological trap. 



07:20 

The next step in the domestic violence pattern is to introduce the threat of violence and see how she reacts. And here's where those guns come in. As soon as we moved to New England -- you know, that place where Connor was supposed to feel so safe -- he bought three guns. He kept one in the glove compartment of our car. He kept one under the pillows on our bed, and the third one he kept in his pocket at all times. And he said that he needed those guns because of the trauma he'd experienced as a young boy. He needed them to feel protected. But those guns were really a message for me, and even though he hadn't raised a hand to me, my life was already in grave danger every minute of every day. 



08:08 

Conor first physically attacked me five days before our wedding. It was 7 a.m. I still had on my nightgown. I was working on my computer trying to finish a freelance writing assignment, and I got frustrated, and Conor used my anger as an excuse to put both of his hands around my neck and to squeeze so tightly that I could not breathe or scream, and he used the chokehold to hit my head repeatedly against the wall. Five days later, the ten bruises on my neck had just faded, and I put on my mother's wedding dress, and I married him. 



08:51 

Despite what had happened, I was sure we were going to live happily ever after, because I loved him, and he loved me so much. And he was very, very sorry. He had just been really stressed out by the wedding and by becoming a family with me. It was an isolated incident, and he was never going to hurt me again. 



09:15 

It happened twice more on the honeymoon. The first time, I was driving to find a secret beach and I got lost, and he punched me in the side of my head so hard that the other side of my head repeatedly hit the driver's side window. And then a few days later, driving home from our honeymoon, he got frustrated by traffic, and he threw a cold Big Mac in my face. Conor proceeded to beat me once or twice a week for the next two and a half years of our marriage. 



09:46 

I was mistaken in thinking that I was unique and alone in this situation. One in three American women experiences domestic violence or stalking at some point in her life, and the CDC reports that 15 million children are abused every year, 15 million. So actually, I was in very good company. 



10:09 

Back to my question: Why did I stay? The answer is easy. I didn't know he was abusing me. Even though he held those loaded guns to my head, pushed me down stairs, threatened to kill our dog, pulled the key out of the car ignition as I drove down the highway, poured coffee grinds on my head as I dressed for a job interview, I never once thought of myself as a battered wife. Instead, I was a very strong woman in love with a deeply troubled man, and I was the only person on Earth who could help Conor face his demons. 



10:51 

The other question everybody asks is, why doesn't she just leave? Why didn't I walk out? I could have left any time. To me, this is the saddest and most painful question that people ask, because we victims know something you usually don't: It's incredibly dangerous to leave an abuser. Because the final step in the domestic violence pattern is kill her. Over 70 percent of domestic violence murders happen after the victim has ended the relationship, after she's gotten out, because then the abuser has nothing left to lose. Other outcomes include long-term stalking, even after the abuser remarries; denial of financial resources; and manipulation of the family court system to terrify the victim and her children, who are regularly forced by family court judges to spend unsupervised time with the man who beat their mother. And still we ask, why doesn't she just leave? 



12:00 

I was able to leave, because of one final, sadistic beating that broke through my denial. I realized that the man who I loved so much was going to kill me if I let him. So I broke the silence. I told everyone: the police, my neighbors, my friends and family, total strangers, and I'm here today because you all helped me. 



12:33 

We tend to stereotype victims as grisly headlines, self-destructive women, damaged goods. The question, "Why does she stay?" is code for some people for, "It's her fault for staying," as if victims intentionally choose to fall in love with men intent upon destroying us. 



12:57 

But since publishing "Crazy Love," I have heard hundreds of stories from men and women who also got out, who learned an invaluable life lesson from what happened, and who rebuilt lives -- joyous, happy lives -- as employees, wives and mothers, lives completely free of violence, like me. Because it turns out that I'm actually a very typical domestic violence victim and a typical domestic violence survivor. I remarried a kind and gentle man, and we have those three kids. I have that black lab, and I have that minivan. What I will never have again, ever, is a loaded gun held to my head by someone who says that he loves me. 



13:50 

Right now, maybe you're thinking, "Wow, this is fascinating," or, "Wow, how stupid was she," but this whole time, I've actually been talking about you. I promise you there are several people listening to me right now who are currently being abused or who were abused as children or who are abusers themselves. Abuse could be affecting your daughter, your sister, your best friend right now. 



14:25 

I was able to end my own crazy love story by breaking the silence. I'm still breaking the silence today. It's my way of helping other victims, and it's my final request of you. Talk about what you heard here. Abuse thrives only in silence. You have the power to end domestic violence simply by shining a spotlight on it. We victims need everyone. We need every one of you to understand the secrets of domestic violence. Show abuse the light of day by talking about it with your children, your coworkers, your friends and family. Recast survivors as wonderful, lovable people with full futures. Recognize the early signs of violence and conscientiously intervene, deescalate it, show victims a safe way out. Together we can make our beds, our dinner tables and our families the safe and peaceful oases they should be. 



15:40 

Thank you. 



15:42 

(Applause)


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I got a ton of different kinds of abuse from my gal after her affair blew up. She came down on me with everything she could think of. 

Today, it has faded, and she has expressed/shown remorse many times. In fact, nowadays she appears to see how destructive it all was, and when I didn't return the abuse throughout that time, it makes her feel even more remorseful. 

There was a bout of hitting she brought upon me for about a week. I was raised that a man never hits a woman, and I have never hit her. She has, however, been sent to the hospital in the past by physically abusive men. I can survive it easier since I am a large male. That doesn't make an excuse for it. 

My first wife hit me once, and at the time I said, "If this is an equal relationship and you hit me, that means I can hit you, too." She never did again.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Stockholm Syndrome from Out of the FOG* 




*Stockholm Syndrome* - Stockholm Syndrome is when a hostage, kidnap victim or abuse victim develops a sense of loyalty or co-operation towards their captor or abuser, disregarding the abuse or the danger and protecting or sustaining the perpetrator.

Stockholm Syndrome got its name from a 1973 bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden in which 4 bank employees were taken hostage for 6 days. During their captivity, the victims were strapped in dynamite and locked in a vault. while the bank robbers negotiated with local authorities. However, during the stand-off, much to the surprise of their rescuers, the hostages developed more trust in their captors than in the police who were trying to rescue them, publicly stating afterwards that they feared the actions of the police more than those of the bank robbers. The term "Stockholm Syndrome" was subsequently coined by Swedish psychiatrist & criminologist Nils Bejerot who was involved in the case.

Stockholm syndrome is often referred to in common culture as "brainwashing" or "brainwashing the victim".

Examples of Stockholm Syndrome

Since that time, there have been a number of well documented cases of kidnapping or abuse of an individual in which the victim has begun co-operating with their captor to which the label of "Stockholm Syndrome" has been applied by the media:

•In 2003, abducted teenager Elizabeth Smart was identified with Stockholm Syndrome after she was discovered to have had multiple opportunities to escape or seek help from strangers ,but moved around freely with her captors in public places and even told the police when interviewed that the captors were her parents. Source: New York Times Article.

•In 1977, teenage hitchhiker Colleen Stan was abducted and held for 7 years by Cameron Hooker and his wife Janice. During her captivity, she was tortured, raped and made to live in a box underneath the couple's bed. Kept as Hooker's sex slave, she was occasionally allowed to leave the couple's home, on one occasion visiting her family, yet she covered up what was happening to her. When she escaped after 7 years in captivity she did not immediately report the crimes, which were eventually reported by Hooker's wife, Janice. Source: TruTV Article.

•In 1974, 19 year old Patricia "Patti" Hearst was abducted in California by a guerilla group known as the Symbionese Liberation Army (or SLA). Her captors beat her, raped her and held her in a closet. Over her 17 month captivity she became a sympathizer with the group's cause, even participating in a bank robbery with them, for which she later spent 2 years in prison. Source: PBS "American Experience" Article.

*While these are dramatic examples, the principles of Stockholm syndrome are common in domestic abuse scenarios.*

*Here at Out of the FOG, we have met a number of non personality-disordered (Non-PD) individuals who have defended the actions of abusive partners and family members. And many of us have, ourselves, rationalized, defended, even facilitated or co-operated with our abusers in a desperate attempt to reduce conflict, let sleeping dogs lie and keep the peace.
*


*Why does Stockholm Syndrome happen?*

First, it is important to remember that most abuse - even severe abuse is intermittent - that is to say that it doesn't happen 24/7. Abusers are often nurturing, helpful or co-operative - even likeable people 90% of the time. However, it doesn't take a lot of abuse to do a lot of damage to a person. See our article on the Abusive Cycle.

Second, it helps to understand the principle of Cognitive Dissonance. Cognitive Dissonance is a psychological term for the discomfort that most people feel when they encounter information which contradicts their existing set of beliefs or values.

Third, it is important to remember that the innate instinct of most people is to survive, and issues of personal comfort and safety will sometimes take a back seat to issues which are perceived as "life and death issues". Sometimes, a person's ability to think objectively, rationally or logically becomes impaired when they are in a survival mode.

*Coping with Stockholm Syndrome*

If you find yourself defending or rationalizing away the actions of a partner or family member whom a friend thinks is mistreating you, it may be a good idea to think about Stockholm syndrome and whether your judgment is being clouded by your instinct to survive.

*Ask yourself:*

•If this was happening to my friend what would I want them to do?
•What is it that I'm most afraid will happen if I confront the person who has hurt me?
•Are things likely to be better 5 years from now?
•Am I too afraid or ashamed to tell people what my life is really like?
*
And then:*

•Talk about it. Seek the objective advice of someone who is outside your situation, such as trusted friends, family or therapists.
•If you are afraid to discuss your situation with anyone else then you especially need to try.
•See a therapist.
•Talk anonymously on our Support Forum.

Articles & Resources:

Love and the Stockholm Syndrome - article by psychologist Dr. Joe Carver


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Love and Stockholm Syndrome:*

*The Mystery of Loving an Abuser*



by

Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist



People are often amazed at their own psychological conditions and reactions. Those with depression are stunned when they remember they’ve thought of killing themselves. Patients recovering from severe psychiatric disturbances are often shocked as they remember their symptoms and behavior during the episode. A patient with Bipolar Disorder recently told me “I can’t believe I thought I could change the weather through mental telepathy!” A common reaction is “I can’t believe I did that!” 



In clinical practice, some of the most surprised and shocked individuals are those who have been involved in controlling and abusive relationships. When the relationship ends, they offer comments such as “I know what he’s done to me, but I still love him”, “I don’t know why, but I want him back”, or “I know it sounds crazy, but I miss her”. Recently I’ve heard “This doesn’t make sense. He’s got a new girlfriend and he’s abusing her too…but I’m jealous!” Friends and relatives are even more amazed and shocked when they hear these comments or witness their loved one returning to an abusive relationship. While the situation doesn’t make sense from a social standpoint, does it make sense from a psychological viewpoint? The answer is - Yes!



On August 23rd, 1973 two machine-gun carrying criminals entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden. Blasting their guns, one prison escapee named Jan-Erik Olsson announced to the terrified bank employees “The party has just begun!” The two bank robbers held four hostages, three women and one man, for the next 131 hours. The hostages were strapped with dynamite and held in a bank vault until finally rescued on August 28th. 



After their rescue, the hostages exhibited a shocking attitude considering they were threatened, abused, and feared for their lives for over five days. In their media interviews, it was clear that they supported their captors and actually feared law enforcement personnel who came to their rescue. The hostages had begun to feel the captors were actually protecting them from the police. One woman later became engaged to one of the criminals and another developed a legal defense fund to aid in their criminal defense fees. Clearly, the hostages had “bonded” emotionally with their captors. 



While the psychological condition in hostage situations became known as “Stockholm Syndrome” due to the publicity – the emotional “bonding” with captors was a familiar story in psychology. It had been recognized many years before and was found in studies of other hostage, prisoner, or abusive situations such as:


•Abused Children 
•Battered/Abused Women 
•Prisoners of War 
•Cult Members 
•Incest Victims 
•Criminal Hostage Situations 
•Concentration Camp Prisoners 
•Controlling/Intimidating Relationships 



In the final analysis, emotionally bonding with an abuser is actually a strategy for survival for victims of abuse and intimidation. The “Stockholm Syndrome” reaction in hostage and/or abuse situations is so well recognized at this time that police hostage negotiators no longer view it as unusual. In fact, it is often encouraged in crime situations as it improves the chances for survival of the hostages. On the down side, it also assures that the hostages experiencing “Stockholm Syndrome” will not be very cooperative during rescue or criminal prosecution. Local law enforcement personnel have long recognized this syndrome with battered women who fail to press charges, bail their battering husband/boyfriend out of jail, and even physically attack police officers when they arrive to rescue them from a violent assault. 



Stockholm Syndrome (SS) can also be found in family, romantic, and interpersonal relationships. The abuser may be a husband or wife, boyfriend or girlfriend, father or mother, or any other role in which the abuser is in a position of control or authority. 



It’s important to understand the components of Stockholm Syndrome as they relate to abusive and controlling relationships. Once the syndrome is understood, it’s easier to understand why victims support, love, and even defend their abusers and controllers.



Every syndrome has symptoms or behaviors and Stockholm Syndrome is no exception. While a clear-cut list has not been established due to varying opinions by researchers and experts, several of these features will be present:


•Positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller 
•Negative feelings by the victim toward family, friends, or authorities trying to rescue/support them or win their release 
•Support of the abuser’s reasons and behaviors 
•Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim 
•Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser 
•Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment 



Stockholm Syndrome doesn’t occur in every hostage or abusive situation. In another bank robbery involving hostages, after terrorizing patrons and employees for many hours, a police sharpshooter shot and wounded the terrorizing bank robber. After he hit the floor, two women picked him up and physically held him up to the window for another shot. As you can see, the length of time one is exposed to abuse/control and other factors are certainly involved.



It has been found that four situations or conditions are present that serve as a foundation for the development of Stockholm Syndrome. These four situations can be found in hostage, severe abuse, and abusive relationships:


•The presence of a perceived threat to one’s physical or psychological survival and the belief that the abuser would carry out the threat. 
•The presence of a perceived small kindness from the abuser to the victim 
•Isolation from perspectives other than those of the abuser 
•The perceived inability to escape the situation 



By considering each situation we can understand how Stockholm Syndrome develops in romantic relationships as well as criminal/hostage situations. Looking at each situation:



*Perceived threat to one’s physical/psychological survival*

The perception of threat can be formed by direct, indirect, or witnessed methods. Criminal or antisocial partners can directly threaten your life or the life of friends and family. Their history of violence leads us to believe that the captor/controller will carry out the threat in a direct manner if we fail to comply with their demands. The abuser assures us that only our cooperation keeps our loved ones safe.



Indirectly, the abuser/controller offers subtle threats that you will never leave them or have another partner, reminding you that people in the past have paid dearly for not following their wishes. Hints are often offered such as “I know people who can make others disappear”. Indirect threats also come from the stories told by the abuser or controller – how they obtained revenge on those who have crossed them in the past. These stories of revenge are told to remind the victim that revenge is possible if they leave.



Witnessing violence or aggression is also a perceived threat. Witnessing a violent temper directed at a television set, others on the highway, or a third party clearly sends us the message that we could be the next target for violence. Witnessing the thoughts and attitudes of the abuser/controller is threatening and intimidating, knowing that we will be the target of those thoughts in the future.



*The “Small Kindness” Perception*

In threatening and survival situations, we look for evidence of hope – a small sign that the situation may improve. When an abuser/controller shows the victim some small kindness, even though it is to the abusers benefit as well, the victim interprets that small kindness as a positive trait of the captor. In criminal/war hostage situations, letting the victim live is often enough. Small behaviors, such as allowing a bathroom visit or providing food/water, are enough to strengthen the Stockholm Syndrome in criminal hostage events.



In relationships with abusers, a birthday card, a gift (usually provided after a period of abuse), or a special treat are interpreted as not only positive, but evidence that the abuser is not “all bad” and may at some time correct his/her behavior. Abusers and controllers are often given positive credit for not abusing their partner, when the partner would have normally been subjected to verbal or physical abuse in a certain situation. An aggressive and jealous partner may normally become intimidating or abusive in certain social situations, as when an opposite-sex coworker waves in a crowd. After seeing the wave, the victim expects to be verbally battered and when it doesn’t happen, that “small kindness” is interpreted as a positive sign.



Similar to the small kindness perception is the perception of a “soft side”. During the relationship, the abuser/controller may share information about their past – how they were mistreated, abused, neglected, or wronged. The victim begins to feel the abuser/controller may be capable of fixing their behavior or worse yet, that they (abuser) may also be a “victim”. Sympathy may develop toward the abuser and we often hear the victim of Stockholm Syndrome defending their abuser with “I know he fractured my jaw and ribs…but he’s troubled. He had a rough childhood!” Losers and abusers may admit they need psychiatric help or acknowledge they are mentally disturbed, however, it's almost always after they have already abused or intimidated the victim. The admission is a way of denying responsibility for the abuse. In truth, personality disorders and criminals have learned over the years that personal responsibility for their violent/abusive behaviors can be minimized and even denied by blaming their bad upbringing, abuse as a child, and now - video games. One murderer blamed his crime on eating too much junk food – now known as the “Twinkie Defense”. While it may be true that the abuser/controller had a difficult upbringing – showing sympathy for his/her history produces no change in their behavior and in fact, prolongs the length of time you will be abused. While “sad stories” are always included in their apologies – after the abusive/controlling event - their behavior never changes! Keep in mind; once you become hardened to the “sad stories”, they will simply try another approach. I know of no victim of abuse or crime who has heard their abuser say "I'm beating (robbing, mugging, etc.) you because my Mom hated me!" 



*Isolation from Perspectives Other than those of the Captor*

In abusive and controlling relationships, the victim has the sense they are always “walking on eggshells” – fearful of saying or doing anything that might prompt a violent/intimidating outburst. For their survival, they begin to see the world through the abuser’s perspective. They begin to fix things that might prompt an outburst, act in ways they know makes the abuser happy, or avoid aspects of their own life that may prompt a problem. If we only have a dollar in our pocket, then most of our decisions become financial decisions. If our partner is an abuser or controller, then the majority of our decisions are based on our perception of the abuser’s potential reaction. We become preoccupied with the needs, desires, and habits of the abuser/controller. 



Taking the abuser’s perspective as a survival technique can become so intense that the victim actually develops anger toward those trying to help them. The abuser is already angry and resentful toward anyone who would provide the victim support, typically using multiple methods and manipulations to isolate the victim from others. Any contact the victim has with supportive people in the community is met with accusations, threats, and/or violent outbursts. Victims then turn on their family – fearing family contact will cause additional violence and abuse in the home. At this point, victims curse their parents and friends, tell them not to call and stop interfering, and break off communication with others. Agreeing with the abuser/controller, supportive others are now viewed as “causing trouble” and must be avoided. Many victims threaten their family and friends with restraining orders if they continue to “interfere” or try to help the victim in their situation. On the surface it would appear that they have sided with the abuser/controller. In truth, they are trying to minimize contact situation that might make them a target of additional verbal abuse or intimidation. If a casual phone call from Mom prompts a two-hour temper outburst with threats and accusations – the victim quickly realizes it's safer if Mom stops calling. If simply telling Mom to stop calling doesn’t work, for his or her own safety the victim may accuse Mom of attempting to ruin the relationship and demand that she stop calling. 



In severe cases of Stockholm Syndrome in relationships, the victim may have difficulty leaving the abuser and may actually feel the abusive situation is their fault. In law enforcement situations, the victim may actually feel the arrest of their partner for physical abuse or battering is their fault. Some women will allow their children to be removed by child protective agencies rather than give up the relationship with their abuser. As they take the perspective of the abuser, the children are at fault – they complained about the situation, they brought the attention of authorities to the home, and they put the adult relationship at risk. Sadly, the children have now become a danger to the victim’s safety. For those with Stockholm Syndrome, allowing the children to be removed from the home decreases their victim stress while providing an emotionally and physically safer environment for the children.



*Perceived Inability to Escape*

As a hostage in a bank robbery, threatened by criminals with guns, it’s easy to understand the perceived inability to escape. In romantic relationships, the belief that one can’t escape is also very common. Many abusive/controlling relationships feel like till-death-do-us-part relationships – locked together by mutual financial issues/assets, mutual intimate knowledge, or legal situations. Here are some common situations:

· Controlling partners have increased the financial obligations/debt in the relationship to the point that neither partner can financially survive on their own. Controllers who sense their partner may be leaving will often purchase a new automobile, later claiming they can’t pay alimony or child support due to their large car payments.

· The legal ending of a relationship, especially a martial relationship, often creates significant problems. A Controller who has an income that is “under the table” or maintained through legally questionable situations runs the risk of those sources of income being investigated or made public by the divorce/separation. The Controller then becomes more agitated about the possible public exposure of their business arrangements than the loss of the relationship.

· The Controller often uses extreme threats including threatening to take the children out of state, threatening to quit their job/business rather than pay alimony/support, threatening public exposure of the victim’s personal issues, or assuring the victim they will never have a peaceful life due to nonstop harassment. In severe cases, the Controller may threaten an action that will undercut the victim’s support such as “I’ll see that you lose your job” or “I’ll have your automobile burned”. 

· Controllers often keep the victim locked into the relationship with severe guilt – threatening suicide if the victim leaves. The victim hears “I’ll kill myself in front of the children”, “I’ll set myself on fire in the front yard”, or “Our children won’t have a father/mother if you leave me!” 

· In relationships with an abuser or controller, the victim has also experienced a loss of self-esteem, self-confidence, and psychological energy. The victim may feel “burned out” and too depressed to leave. Additionally, abusers and controllers often create a type of dependency by controlling the finances, placing automobiles/homes in their name, and eliminating any assets or resources the victim may use to leave. In clinical practice I’ve heard “I’d leave but I can’t even get money out of the savings account! I don’t know the PIN number.”

· In teens and young adults, victims may be attracted to a controlling individual when they feel inexperienced, insecure, and overwhelmed by a change in their life situation. When parents are going through a divorce, a teen may attach to a controlling individual, feeling the controller may stabilize their life. Freshmen in college may be attracted to controlling individuals who promise to help them survive living away from home on a college campus. 



In unhealthy relationships and definitely in Stockholm Syndrome there is a daily preoccupation with “trouble”. Trouble is any individual, group, situation, comment, casual glance, or cold meal that may produce a temper tantrum or verbal abuse from the controller or abuser. To survive, “trouble” is to be avoided at all costs. The victim must control situations that produce trouble. That may include avoiding family, friends, co-workers, and anyone who may create “trouble” in the abusive relationship. The victim does not hate family and friends; they are only avoiding “trouble”! The victim also cleans the house, calms the children, scans the mail, avoids certain topics, and anticipates every issue of the controller or abuse in an effort to avoid “trouble”. In this situation, children who are noisy become “trouble”. Loved ones and friends are sources of “trouble” for the victim who is attempting to avoid verbal or physical aggression. 



Stockholm Syndrome in relationships is not uncommon. Law enforcement professionals are painfully aware of the situation – making a domestic dispute one of the high-risk calls during the work hours. Called by neighbors during a spousal abuse incident, the abuser is passive upon arrival of the police, only to find the abused spouse upset and threatening the officers if their abusive partner is arrested for domestic violence. In truth, the victim knows the abuser/controller will retaliate against him/her if 1) they encourage an arrest, 2) they offer statements about the abuse/fight that are deemed disloyal by the abuser, 3) they don’t bail them out of jail as quickly as possible, and 4) they don’t personally apologize for the situation – as though it was their fault.



Stockholm Syndrome produces an unhealthy bond with the controller and abuser. It is the reason many victims continue to support an abuser after the relationship is over. It’s also the reason they continue to see “the good side” of an abusive individual and appear sympathetic to someone who has mentally and sometimes physically abused them.



*Is There Something Else Involved?*



In a short response – Yes! Throughout history, people have found themselves supporting and participating in life situations that range from abusive to bizarre. In talking to these active and willing participants in bad and bizarre situations, it is clear they have developed feelings and attitudes that support their participation. One way these feelings and thoughts are developed is known as “cognitive dissonance”. As you can tell, psychologists have large words and phrases for just about everything. 



“Cognitive Dissonance” explains how and why people change their ideas and opinions to support situations that do not appear to be healthy, positive, or normal. In the theory, an individual seeks to reduce information or opinions that make him or her uncomfortable. When we have two sets of cognitions (knowledge, opinion, feelings, input from others, etc.) that are the opposite, the situation becomes emotionally uncomfortable. Even though we might find ourselves in a foolish or difficult situation – few want to admit that fact. Instead, we attempt to reduce the dissonance - the fact that our cognitions don’t match, agree, or make sense when combined. “Cognitive Dissonance” can be reduced by adding new cognitions – adding new thoughts and attitudes. Some examples:



· Heavy smokers know smoking causes lung cancer and multiple health risks. To continue smoking, the smoker changes his cognitions (thoughts/feelings) such as 1) “I’m smoking less than ten years ago”, 2) “I’m smoking low-tar cigarettes”, 3) “Those statistics are made up by the cancer industry conspiracy”, or 4) “Something’s got to get you anyway!” These new cognitions/attitudes allow them to keep smoking and actually begin blaming restaurants for being unfair.

· You purchase a $40,000.00 Sport Utility Vehicle that gets 8 miles a gallon. You justify the expense and related issues with 1) “It’s great on trips (you take one trip per year)”, 2) “I can use it to haul stuff (one coffee table in 12 months), and 3) “You can carry a lot of people in it (95% of your trips are driver-only).”

· Your husband/boyfriend becomes abusive and assaultive. You can’t leave due to the finances, children, or other factors. Through cognitive dissonance, you begin telling yourself “He only hits me open-handed” and “He’s had a lot of stress at work.”



Leon Festinger first coined “Cognitive Dissonance”. He had observed a cult (1956) in which members gave up their homes, incomes, and jobs to work for the cult. This cult believed in messages from outer space that predicted the day the world would end by a flood. As cult members and firm believers, they believed they would be saved by flying saucers at the appointed time. As they gathered and waited to be taken by flying saucers at the specified time, the end-of-the-world came and went. No flood and no flying saucer! Rather than believing they were foolish after all that personal and emotional investment – they decided their beliefs had actually saved the world from the flood and they became firmer in their beliefs after the failure of the prophecy. The moral – the more you invest (income, job, home, time, effort, etc.) the stronger your need to justify your position. If we invest $5.00 in a raffle ticket, we justify losing with “I’ll get them next time”. If you invest everything you have, it requires an almost unreasoning belief and unusual attitude to support and justify that investment. 



Studies tell us we are more loyal and committed to something that is difficult, uncomfortable, and even humiliating. The initiation rituals of college fraternities, Marine boot camp, and graduate school all produce loyal and committed individuals. Almost any ordeal creates a bonding experience. Every couple, no matter how mismatched, falls in love in the movies after going through a terrorist takeover, being stalked by a killer, being stranded on an island, or being involved in an alien abduction. Investment and an ordeal are ingredients for a strong bonding – even if the bonding is unhealthy. No one bonds or falls in love by being a member of the Automobile Club or a music CD club. Struggling to survive on a deserted island – you bet!



Abusive relationships produce a great amount on unhealthy investment in both parties. In many cases we tend to remain and support the abusive relationship due to our investment in the relationship. Try telling a new Marine that since he or she has survived boot camp, they should now enroll in the National Guard! Several types of investments keep us in the bad relationship:


•Emotional Investment – We’ve invested so many emotions, cried so much, and worried so much that we feel we must see the relationship through to the finish. 
•Social Investment – We’ve got our pride! To avoid social embarrassment and uncomfortable social situations, we remain in the relationship. 
•Family Investments – If children are present in the relationship, decisions regarding the relationship are clouded by the status and needs of the children. 
•Financial Investment – In many cases, the controlling and abusive partner has created a complex financial situation. Many victims remain in a bad relationship, waiting for a better financial situation to develop that would make their departure and detachment easier. 
•Lifestyle Investment – Many controlling/abusive partners use money or a lifestyle as an investment. Victims in this situation may not want to lose their current lifestyle. 
•Intimacy Investment – We often invest emotional and sexual intimacy. Some victims have experienced a destruction of their emotional and/or sexual self-esteem in the unhealthy relationship. The abusing partner may threaten to spread rumors or tell intimate details or secrets. A type of blackmail using intimacy is often found in these situations. 



In many cases, it’s not simply our feelings for an individual that keeps us in an unhealthy relationship - it’s often the amount of investment. Relationships are complex and we often only see the tip of the iceberg in public. For this reason, the most common phrase offered by the victim in defense of their unhealthy relationship is “You just don’t understand!” 


*
Combining Two Unhealthy Conditions*



The combination of “Stockholm Syndrome” and “cognitive dissonance” produces a victim who firmly believes the relationship is not only acceptable, but also desperately needed for their survival. The victim feels they would mentally collapse if the relationship ended. In long-term relationships, the victims have invested everything and placed “all their eggs in one basket”. The relationship now decides their level of self-esteem, self-worth, and emotional health. 



For reasons described above, the victim feels family and friends are a threat to the relationship and eventually to their personal health and existence. The more family/friends protest the controlling and abusive nature of the relationship, the more the victim develops cognitive dissonance and becomes defensive. At this point, family and friends become victims of the abusive and controlling individual.



Importantly, both Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance develop on an involuntary basis. The victim does not purposely invent this attitude. Both develop as an attempt to exist and survive in a threatening and controlling environment and relationship. Despite what we might think, our loved one is not in the unhealthy relationship to irritate, embarrass, or drive us to drink. What might have began as a normal relationship has turned into a controlling and abusive situation. They are trying to survive. Their personality is developing the feelings and thoughts needed to survive the situation and lower their emotional and physical risks. All of us have developed attitudes and feelings that help us accept and survive situations. We have these attitudes/feelings about our jobs, our community, and other aspects of our life. As we have found throughout history, the more dysfunctional the situation, the more dysfunctional our adaptation and thoughts to survive. The victim is engaged in an attempt to survive and make a relationship work. Once they decide it doesn’t work and can’t be fixed, they will need our support as we patiently await their decision to return to a healthy and positive lifestyle. 



*Family and Friends of the Victim*



When a family is confronted with a loved one involved with a Loser or controlling/abusive individual, the situation becomes emotionally painful and socially difficult for the family. While each situation is different, some general guidelines to consider are:



- Your loved one, the "victim" of the Loser/Abuser, has probably been given a choice - the relationship or the family. This choice is made more difficult by the control and intimidation often present in abusive/controlling relationships. Knowing that choosing the family will result in severe personal and social consequences, the family always comes in second. Keep in mind that the victim knows in their heart the family will always love them and accept their return – whenever the return happens.



- Remember, the more you pressure the "victim" of the Loser/Abuser, the more you prove the their point. Your loved one is being told the family is trying to ruin their wonderful relationship. Pressure in the form of contacts, comments, and communications will be used as evidence against you. An invitation to a Tupperware party is met with “You see! They just want to get you by yourself so they can tell you bad things about me!” Increasing your contacts is viewed as “putting pressure” on their relationship – not being lovingly concerned.



- Your contacts with your loved one, no matter how routine and loving, may be met with anger and resentment. This is because each contact may prompt the Loser/Abuser to attack them verbally or emotionally. Imagine getting a four-hour lecture every time your Aunt Gladys calls. In a short time, you become angry each time she calls, knowing what the contact will produce in your home. The longer Aunt Gladys talks – the longer your lecture becomes! Thus, when Aunt Gladys calls, you want to get her off the phone as quickly as possible. 



- The 1980’s song, ”Hold on Loosely”, maybe the key to a good family and friend approach. Holding on too tight produces more pressure. When the victim is out of the home, it’s often best to establish predictable, scheduled contacts. Calling every Wednesday evening, just for a status report or to go over current events, is less threatening than random calls during the week. Random calls are always viewed as “checking up on us” calls. While you may encounter an answering machine, leave a polite and loving message. Importantly, don’t discuss the relationship (the controller may be listening!) unless the victim brings it up. The goal of these scheduled calls is to maintain contact, remind your loved one that you are always there to help, and to quietly remind the controller that family and loved ones are nearby and haven’t disappeared.



- Try to maintain traditional and special contacts with your loved one - holidays, special occasions, etc. Keep your contacts short and brief, with no comments that can be used as evidence. Contacts made at “traditional” times – holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. – are not as threatening to a controller/abuser. Contacts that provide information, but not questions, are also not as threatening. An example might be a simple card reading “Just a note to let you know that your brother landed a new job this week. You might see him on a Wal-Mart commercial any day now. Love, Mom and Dad”. This approach allows the victim to recognize that the family is there - waiting in the wings if needed. It also lessens the lectures/tantrums provided by the Loser as the contacts are on a traditional and expected basis. It’s also hard to be angry about brother’s new job without looking ridiculous. Also, don’t invent holidays or send a reminder that it’s Sigmund Freud’s birthday. That’s suspicious…even in my family.



- Remember that there are many channels of communication. It’s important that we keep a channel open if at all possible. Communication channels might include phone calls, letters, cards, and e-mail. Scheduled monthly shopping trips or outings are helpful if possible. The goal is to maintain contact while your loved one is involved in the controlling/abusive relationship. Remember, the goal is contact, not pressure.



- Don't feel the victim's behavior is against the family or friends. It may be a form of survival or a way of lowering stress. Victims may be very resistive, angry, and even hostile due to the complexity of their relationship with the controller/abuser. They may even curse, threaten, and accuse loved ones and friends. This hostile defensiveness is actually self-protection in the relationship – an attempt to avoid “trouble”. 



- The victim needs to know and feel they are not rejected because of their behavior. Keep in mind, they are painfully aware of their situation. They know they are being treated badly and/or controlled by their partner. Frequent reminders of this will only make them want less contact. We naturally avoid people who remind us of things or situations that are emotionally painful. 



- Victims may slightly open the door and provide information about their relationship or hint they may be considering leaving. When the door opens, don't jump through with the Marines behind you! Listen and simply offer support such as "You know your family is behind any decision you need to make and at any time you make it." They may be exploring what support is available but may not be ready to call in the troops just yet. Many victims use an “exit plan” that may take months or even years to complete. They may be gathering information at this point, not yet ready for an exit.



- We can get messages to people in two ways - the pipeline and the grapevine. The pipeline is face-to-face, telling the person directly. This seldom happens in Loser situations as controllers and abusers monitor and control contacts with others. However, the grapevine is still open. When we use the grapevine, we send a message to our loved one through another person. Victims of controlling and abusive individuals are often allowed to maintain a relationship with a few people, perhaps a sibling or best friend. We can send our loved one a message through that contact person, a message that voices our understanding and support. We don't send insults ("Bill is such a jerk!) or put-downs ("If he doesn't get out of this relationship he'll end up crazy!) - we send messages of love and support. We send "I hope she/he (victim) knows the family is concerned and that we love and support them." Comments sent on the grapevine are phrased with the understanding that our loved one will hear them in that manner. Don’t talk with a grapevine contact to express anger and threaten to hire a hit man, and then try to send a message of loving support. Be careful what and how the message is provided. The grapevine contact can often get messages to the victim when we can't. It’s another way of letting them know we’re supporting them, just waiting to help if and when needed.



- Each situation is different. The family may need to seek counseling support in the community. A family consultation with a mental health professional or attorney may be helpful if the situation becomes legally complex or there is a significant danger of harm.



- As relatives or friends of a victim involved with a controller or abuser, our normal reaction is to consider dramatic action. We become angry, resentful, and aggressive at times. Our mind fills with a variety of plans that often range from rescue and kidnapping to ambushing the controller/abuser with a ball bat. A rule of thumb is that any aggression toward the controller/abuser will result in additional difficulties for your loved one. Try to remain calm and await an opportunity to show your love and support when your loved one needs it. 



- In some cases, as in teenagers and young adults, the family may still provide some financial, insurance, or other support. When we receive angry responses to our phone calls, our anger and resentment tells us to cut off their support. I’ve heard “If she’s going to date that jerk, it’s not going to be in a car I’m paying for!” and “If he’s choosing that woman over his family, he can drop out of college and flip hamburgers!” Withdrawing financial support only makes your loved one more dependent upon the controller/abuser. Remember, if we’re aggressive by threatening, withdrawing support, or pressuring – we become the threatening force, not the controller/abuser. It actually moves the victim into the support of the controller. Sadly, the more of an “ordeal” they experience, the more bonding takes place as noted in Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance.



- As you might imagine, the combination of Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance may also be active when our loved one is involved in cults, unusual religions, and other groups. In some situations, the abuser and controller is actually a group or organization. Victims are punished if they are viewed as disloyal to the group. While this article deals with individual relationships, the family guidelines may be helpful in controlling-group situations.


*
Final Thoughts*



You may be the victim of a controlling and abusive partner, seeking an understanding of your feelings and attitudes. You may have a son, daughter, or friend currently involved with a controlling and abusive partner, looking for ways to understand and help. 



If a loved one is involved with a Loser, a controlling and abusing partner, the long-term outcome is difficult to determine due to the many factors involved. If their relationship is in the “dating” phase, they may end the relationship on their own. If the relationship has continued for over a year, they may require support and an exit plan before ending the relationship. Marriage and children further complicates their ability to leave the situation. When the victim decides to end the unhappy relationship, it’s important that they view loved ones as supportive, loving, and understanding – not a source of pressure, guilt, or aggression.



This article is an attempt to understand the complex feelings and attitudes that are as puzzling to the victim as they are to family and friends. I’ve outlined recommendations for detaching from a Loser or controlling/abusive individual (Joseph M Carver, Ph.D. - Clinical Psychologist) but clearly, there are more victims in this situation. It is hoped this article is helpful to family and friends who worry, cry, and have difficulty understanding the situation of their loved one. It has been said that knowledge is power. Hopefully this knowledge will prove helpful and powerful to victims and their loved ones.



Please consider this article as a general guideline. Some recommendations may be appropriate and helpful while some may not apply to a specific situation. In many cases, we may need additional professional help of a mental health or legal nature. 





*Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D.

Clinical Psychologist*


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

This is what I wrote recently:

Contrary to (overwhelming) popular opinion, there is no such thing as someone “making” us feel this or that. This adage is thrown out so often that it has become deeply engrained in each individual’s psyche. There are a lot of pitfalls in falling for this logic. Not only is it a selfish tendency, but it actually divorces an individual of responsibility. The problem is not just saying “you make me feel (insert emotion)”, it is the embodiment of the logic. The truth is that whatever another individual has done, it is entirely about them.

Whether an individual has verbally insulted you or let you down, it has nothing to do with you. Even in cases of marital affairs, the action itself had nothing to do with you. There is only acting or not acting. Whether it hurts or not depends on a subjective label associated with that action, often in a particular context. Those associated labels are yours. We have to get out of the mindset of assuming that what is subjectively true for us is an objective truth (for all). I won’t delve into the complexities of a physical or emotional affair in this post, as I’d rather focus on intended emotional abuse.

If another individual insults you, the only way it will hurt is if you accept that emotional poison. In some instances, you may even agree with the insult, adding to the amount of emotional trauma endured. What is often at the heart of these instances is an expressed desire to be liked by others, no more and no less. This desire is built upon an idealized image of one that is expected to be shared by others. Speaking or acting against that image is seen as an offense. Unfortunately, individuals lack empathetic capacity, that is, they are unable to step into another person’s skin. Instead of seeing another individual acting for their own reasons, we see it being because of us.

Others have different subjective definitions. They almost always differ from ours. They were raised differently and have different life experiences. Individuals that must give emotional poison to others are not self-happy; they are miserable. They build their esteem by attempting to put others down. But it is their emotional un-intelligence, trauma, and lack of social skills that cause them to act in that manner. They hurl insults for their own reasons. You just may happen to meet one of their preconceived notions of what a deserving victim looks like to them.

Unfortunately, when we become the victim, we feel the need to step onto the battlefield with the aggressor. They become a deserving victim in your mind, as they are to receive verbal insults of your own. You have ate their emotional poison and now generate some to give back to them. Acting on this negativity is what gives the negative emotional reaction inside of an individual. It is this need that actually causes almost all of the emotional pain in the initial victim. I have no “need” to punish other individuals and am never left victimized by their emotional garbage. Rather, they look silly giving insults when none are returned. This is because the aggressors expect their garbage to be received. To justify their actions, they need to witness a negative emotional reaction. An angry face or tear-filled eyes will always suffice.

What you do to an individual that insults you should not deviate sharply from how you interact with friendly individuals. It sounds counter-intuitive, but that is only because we were raised thinking that we had to punish those that insulted us. Imagine this aggressor as suffering from a parasite in their mind. Visualize the pain they are feeling that caused them to give negativity. Smile and keep moving on. The lack of a proportionate response is not rewarding their bad behavior, because:

1.You will not give them the negative emotional reaction that they desired, and
2.You did not take it personally and are fully able to continue enjoying your day.


I will follow this up with more information week by week.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> I got a ton of different kinds of abuse from my gal after her affair blew up. She came down on me with everything she could think of.
> 
> Today, it has faded, and she has expressed/shown remorse many times. In fact, nowadays she appears to see how destructive it all was, and when I didn't return the abuse throughout that time, it makes her feel even more remorseful.
> 
> ...


Yea, this is why I wanted a place to park abuse definitions, how to identify it and what to do about it. Some abuse is situational and temporary, some is chronic and some is pathological. It takes education to know which one you've got and whether to stay or go.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

That's all I've got for now y'all. From time to time as discussions develop I will post definitions of specific behaviors that I feel will help clarify where needed. I will also post articles about healthy vs unhealthy control, healthy and unhealthy boundaries, healthy and unhealthy anger etc... 


There are just so many people around these threads that have questions about abuse and what they are seeing. If you think this thread will help assess their situation direct them to these articles.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

Can you post something on the red flags of emotional abuse? Thanks for starting this thread. It's really informative!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Warning Signs and Red Flags You Are In An Abusive Relationship*


It’s not always easy to tell at the beginning of a relationship if it will become abusive.

In fact, many abusive partners may seem absolutely perfect in the early stages of a relationship. Possessive and controlling behaviors don’t always appear overnight, but rather emerge and intensify as the relationship grows.

Domestic violence doesn’t look the same in every relationship because every relationship is different. But one thing most abusive relationships have in common is that the abusive partner does many different kinds of things to have more power and control over their partners.

If you’re beginning to feel as if your partner or a loved one’s partner is becoming abusive, there are a few behaviors that you can look out for. Watch out for these red flags and if you’re experiencing one or more of them in your relationship, call or chat online with an advocate to talk about what’s going on.



•Telling you that you can never do anything right
•Showing jealousy of your friends and time spent away
•Keeping you or discouraging you from seeing friends or family members
•Embarrassing or shaming you with put-downs
•Controlling every penny spent in the household
•Taking your money or refusing to give you money for expenses
•Looking at you or acting in ways that scare you
•Controlling who you see, where you go, or what you do
•Preventing you from making your own decisions
•Telling you that you are a bad parent or threatening to harm or take away your children
•Preventing you from working or attending school
•Destroying your property or threatening to hurt or kill your pets
•Intimidating you with guns, knives or other weapons
•Pressuring you to have sex when you don’t want to or do things sexually you’re not comfortable with
•Pressuring you to use drugs or alcohol

The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Abuse Defined


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Emotional *Abuse Red Flags*

By Nancy Travers


*Three Red Flags of Emotional Abuse*

Emotional abuse does not announce itself loudly, but rather creeps into your life bit by bit over time. That’s why it’s so insidious. You don’t realize you are under an emotional abuser’s control until you have truly suffered. And you may have suffered as a child, too, and feel the abuse you’re getting now is normal. Perhaps even comfortable. But you can break this pattern if you are alert to ways in which you may become the target of an emotional abuser. Here are signs to watch for:

1) *Total Lack of Respect.* Oh, sure, at first he will adore you, flatter you, charm you. That’s how he lures you in the first place. But, in fact, he sees you as an extension of himself—someone who exists to serve his purposes. Your thoughts and desires don’t matter to him. This is hard to identify because you respect him, and can’t imagine that he wouldn’t feel the same about you. But when he listens to you or he does what you want, it’s because it’s in his best interest. Either he wants to appease you or he happens to want the same thing you do. This time. Beware when he ignores your requests, especially when it puts you in peril in some way. That’s a red flag.

2) *Asks for Big Things Too Fast*. You may be flattered that he wants to move in with you. Or share finances. Or take an important vacation together. But does he want these things a bit too early in your relationship? Are you a little uncomfortable by the speed with which your relationship is advancing? And yet, you’re feeling it’s nice that he wants to be with you. It’s nice that he feels intimate enough to share these things with you. And far be it from you to put a damper on it by saying no. You might even feel a little guilty if you refuse. But what if he really wants to get close so he can keep tabs on you? What if he wants is to control you and your activities? That’s a red flag.

3) *Nothing’s The Abuser's Fault*. In fact, whatever went wrong is probably your fault. Which will catch you by complete surprise because you probably had nothing to do with it. But your abuser needs to keep you off balance. The abuser needs to have control and power, and they do it by verbally manipulating you. they make you feel small by putting you down and invalidating your feelings. When you protest, they tells you you’re too sensitive. Or they gives you the silent treatment, denying you affection. Then you spend your important time and energy trying to get the relationship back to where it was. Which they will eventually disrupt again so they can keep you off balance and under control. The rockiness of this relationship is never the abuser's fault. They never see themselves as the abuser. In fact, they are the victim here. They can never catch a break. And that’s a red flag.

The trouble is, no matter how much you put up with, no matter how you try to make things right, your abuser does not want to change. Why should he? He’s got you under his thumb. And self-help requires work. It’s much easier for him to start the cycle of abuse over again than working to change. But you can change because your life will be better ever after if you can make the effort now. Or better yet, avoid toxic people to begin with. And refuse to get involved with an emotional abuser.

.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Psychological abuse can look like:*

1.Humiliating or embarrassing you.
2.Constant put-downs.
3.Hypercriticism.
4.Refusing to communicate.
5.Ignoring or excluding you.
6.Extramarital affairs.
7.Provocative behavior with opposite sex.
8.Use of sarcasm and unpleasant tone of voice.
9.Unreasonable jealousy.
10.Extreme moodiness.
11.Mean jokes or constantly making fun of you.
12.Saying “I love you but…”
13.Saying things like “If you don’t _____, I will_____.”
14.Domination and control.
15.Withdrawal of affection.
16.Guilt trips.
17.Making everything your fault.
18.Isolating you from friends and family.
19.Using money to control.
20.Constant calling or texting when you are not with him/her.
21.Threatening to commit suicide if you leave.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
There seems to be a common pattern in abuse - including isolation, abuse followed by apologies, followed by more abuse etc.

I often wonder how much of that is calculated. Where do abusers learn to abuse? Might they even look for stories / discussions of abuse to learn how to control someone?

Or is it sort of an instinctive evil? Do they really feel remorse between the episodes of abuse? Do they really feel insecurity when they try to isolate their victims? 

Is there anyone who recognized that they were being abusive, and managed to change their behavior?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> There seems to be a common pattern in abuse - including isolation, abuse followed by apologies, followed by more abuse etc.
> 
> I often wonder how much of that is calculated. Where do abusers learn to abuse? Might they even look for stories / discussions of abuse to learn how to control someone?
> ...


Great questions. There are distinct patterns. I think some are learned, some is rooted in deep insecurity, some is outburst from deep unresolved trauma that left emotional regulation issues. Its tough to define it all. But I think everyone should be aware.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And this was one of the things I had to do... get educated on it since my internal boundary/danger radar was broken. I had to use clear definitions to begin clearly defining what I was seeing and have helped me tremendously. Also, gauging the reactions of others to vet my reaction. To this day, on occasion, I have people react to things WAY before I will. I was so conditioned to accept abuse, that my reaction to it used to be non existent, then progressed to just seriously delayed, then closer to normal with some hyper reactions, had to deal with the hyper reactions back level with normal reasonable. Its been a long journey.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Abuse sucks....I'm glad I got my shyt together....I'm way happier...the old lady is happier the kids are happier....if everyone stop abusing each other they would figure out they are actually abusing them selves....and living a shyty life when it could be so much better once you start owning your own **** and stop blaming others.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I was condition also...thowing my hard hat when my employee pissed me off, kicking the dog, slapping the old lady around....but from were I'm at these day it just an excuse.

I can condition my self to be a penis or a normal human being....ya it sucks I was like that....but I'm not going to blame no body but me for being a phuck up.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I wish someone conditioned me to be rich! LOL.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Given some past conversations I've had here on TAM, it's quite interesting to me to see objectification show up on a list of types of emotional abuse.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Thanks so much for posting this. 

I never realized there was a "cycle" until I came to TAM. I just thought my stbxh flipped a switch every 3 months. I'm so glad I'm out of that mess. Never again will someone treat me like that.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

the guy said:


> I was condition also...thowing my hard hat when my employee pissed me off, kicking the dog, slapping the old lady around....but from were I'm at these day it just an excuse.
> 
> I can condition my self to be a penis or a normal human being....ya it sucks I was like that....but I'm not going to blame no body but me for being a phuck up.


I've had to work on my abusive ways too. You are so right... It's all a choice and we can choose different. You've got my respect.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well. I have blocked or didn't recognize abuse that my mother did to us.

Reading through definitions of abuse triggered memories.

I have always said she didn't ever directly harm us but I'm not so sure now.

I've been going through extremely dark places. Will it even help to dig here?

There are doors in my mind that I am afraid of what is in there.

I just answered my own question.

Time to start digging.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Well. I have blocked or didn't recognize abuse that my mother did to us.
> 
> Reading through definitions of abuse triggered memories.
> 
> ...



Can seriously identify. I had an event happen to me when I was 4 that didn't't start triggering me until a few years ago and I'm in my 40's. 

There are some issues I haven't faced yet that I'm cracking open now too. It IS scary. Yet, we've learned to trust what's on the other side and our Christ haven't we...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Can seriously identify. I had an event happen to me when I was 4 that didn't't start triggering me until a few years ago and I'm in my 40's.
> 
> There are some issues I haven't faced yet that I'm cracking open now too. It IS scary. Yet, we've learned to trust what's on the other side and our Christ haven't we...


Is there a method for subduing strong emotions while accessing blocked memories?

I can open some of what is there but it is too intense to do it safely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Is there a method for subduing strong emotions while accessing blocked memories?
> 
> I can open some of what is there but it is too intense to do it safely.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've experienced some really weird stuff during EMDR, but from my studies some that are that intense need to be done with medical oversite, in a medical facility to be absolutely safe.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think its very valuable for people to learn to recognize the patterns. Its so easy to be blinded though: 

I knew a woman who seemed very aware of these issues and had worked with battered women. One time she described the behavior of a female friend of hers relative to her boyfriend - described as humorous incidents. I pointed out that what she had just described was this woman physically abusing her boyfriend. She paused - then said something to the effect of "oh my god, you are right". She had been fooled by how "friendly" this woman seemed. That the boyfriend was bigger and stronger, so it seemed impossible for him to be abused. 

I think that once someone becomes aware of it, the pattern is obvious, but until you look at it correctly it can be hard to see - like the silhouette pictures that can look like two completely different things.

I think teaching young people about the typical abuse pattern would be very valuable. It is something I only became aware of much later in life. 







Blossom Leigh said:


> Great questions. There are distinct patterns. I think some are learned, some is rooted in deep insecurity, some is outburst from deep unresolved trauma that left emotional regulation issues. Its tough to define it all. But I think everyone should be aware.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think its very valuable for people to learn to recognize the patterns. Its so easy to be blinded though:
> 
> I knew a woman who seemed very aware of these issues and had worked with battered women. One time she described the behavior of a female friend of hers relative to her boyfriend - described as humorous incidents. I pointed out that what she had just described was this woman physically abusing her boyfriend. She paused - then said something to the effect of "oh my god, you are right". She had been fooled by how "friendly" this woman seemed. That the boyfriend was bigger and stronger, so it seemed impossible for him to be abused.
> ...


Completely agree!!

Is an easy thing to do imo. And whats worse is when that abuser is aware of their cloaked advantage and consciously uses it.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I'm curious: What is the value that you see in trying to delve into things blocked out from childhood? If your brain thought it was so bad as to just fill it with a blank space, why try to recover it? I'm asking this honestly, because I've not even bothered trying... it just seems like it would open old wounds, when you've already healed up.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> I'm curious: What is the value that you see in trying to delve into things blocked out from childhood? If your brain thought it was so bad as to just fill it with a blank space, why try to recover it? I'm asking this honestly, because I've not even bothered trying... it just seems like it would open old wounds, when you've already healed up.


Because of the impact it has on one's behavior in the present. If one understands what happened, it can give one some control over their triggers.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For me, the answer would be that I wasn't really healed until I dealt with them. I thought my childhood issues had long been left behind many decades ago but in truth they affected my daily life because the old, half-forgotten tapes were always running in the background. Just because I blocked that stuff didn't mean I was free of it. Knowledge is power. And what's more powerful than working to be mentally healthy?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Because of the impact it has on one's behavior in the present. If one understands what happened, it can give one some control over their triggers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I guess I'm lost. If you don't really trigger from much--or already know the main ones--then, would there be any value?

I control myself with or without knowing, right?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> I guess I'm lost. If you don't really trigger from much--or already know the main ones--then, would there be any value?
> 
> I control myself with or without knowing, right?


Maybe. Really, brother, it comes down to whether or not you think you are managing your triggers. Some people are capable without digging deep. Others not so much.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> I'm curious: What is the value that you see in trying to delve into things blocked out from childhood? If your brain thought it was so bad as to just fill it with a blank space, why try to recover it? I'm asking this honestly, because I've not even bothered trying... it just seems like it would open old wounds, when you've already healed up.


When someone has patterns of behavior or a decision making process that is tied to past events.

The behavior or decisions aren't always appropriate or beneficial to the situation and often cause harm or problems.

I have extremely strong reactions to certain events and environments that are far outside of what should be called for.

I would like to overcome this pattern or imprint.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Openminded said:


> For me, the answer would be that I wasn't really healed until I dealt with them. I thought my childhood issues had long been left behind many decades ago but in truth they affected my daily life because the old, half-forgotten tapes were always running in the background. Just because I blocked that stuff didn't mean I was free of it. Knowledge is power. And what's more powerful than working to be mentally healthy?


Huh. So even though I don't remember it, it's likely to be bothering me, in the back of my head / subconsciously?
@farsidejunky
Thanks for the responses. I'm quite interested in this topic. I always took the route of "ignore it and carry on".


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Huh. So even though I don't remember it, it's likely to be bothering me, in the back of my head / subconsciously?
> 
> @farsidejunky
> Thanks for the responses. I'm quite interested in this topic. I always took the route of "ignore it and carry on".


I did this for years, brother. It cost me a marriage, and nearly a second one. 

This is not to say that you have behavior patterns as bad as mine were.

My passive aggressive, addiction prone, nice guy, level-the-playing-field-at-all-costs persona was a real problem.

And it is not that it may be bothering you as much as it may lead you to less than optimal decision making, especially when you're triggering and you don't realize it.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> When someone has patterns of behavior or a decision making process that is tied to past events.
> 
> The behavior or decisions aren't always appropriate or beneficial to the situation and often cause harm or problems.
> 
> ...


This makes a little more sense me Conan. I guess, if you don't remember enough to realize why you're overreacting, it might help you learn to address it. I can imagine if I didn't have the memory of my stepmom threatening me with a knife, I might not know _why_ I am uncomfortable with women holding knives near me...

So, do you only need to remember enough to get by? Is there any reason for delving deeper, and trying to remember most of it?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> This makes a little more sense me Conan. I guess, if you don't remember enough to realize why you're overreacting, it might help you learn to address it. I can imagine if I didn't have the memory of my stepmom threatening me with a knife, I might not know _why_ I am uncomfortable with women holding knives near me...
> 
> So, do you only need to remember enough to get by? Is there any reason for delving deeper, and trying to remember most of it?


There are things locked away that have never been looked at. Unfortunately, I was subject to many years of some seriously terrifying and warped torment. I don't even know if I am capable of retrieving some memories. There are significant black holes that I have no clue about. But there are some places that are more like doors that I can open.

I want peace. There has been a war inside for my entire life and it is draining.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> There are things locked away that have never been looked at. Unfortunately, I was subject to many years of some seriously terrifying and warped torment. I don't even know if I am capable of retrieving some memories. There are significant black holes that I have no clue about. But there are some places that are more like doors that I can open.
> 
> I want peace. There has been a war inside for my entire life and it is draining.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, if it's any consolation my experience in trauma counseling was it wasn't so much about retrieving old buried memories as looking at destructive patterns and where they originate, and creating a "safe place" in my mind and learning to self soothe when things got tough. I also learned that REM sleep is where memories are moved from the amygdala (emotional part of the brain) to the cerebral cortex (non emotional filing cabinet part of the brain) I had night mares for about six months after the fact, but eventually they stopped and didn't return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> There are things locked away that have never been looked at. Unfortunately, I was subject to many years of some seriously terrifying and warped torment. I don't even know if I am capable of retrieving some memories. There are significant black holes that I have no clue about. But there are some places that are more like doors that I can open.
> 
> I want peace. There has been a war inside for my entire life and it is draining.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.

A simple question for you, Kivlor, but with huge implications.

How good are you at being still?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> *10 Steps to De-Escalate a Conflict*
> 
> By Linda Gryczan, Certified Mediator
> 
> ...



Wow some of this kind of sounds familiar. @jld


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> Wow some of this kind of sounds familiar. @jld


Correct... its the blend of a boundary and active listening. It's why I posted it.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> A simple question for you, Kivlor, but with huge implications.
> 
> ...


Yeah... I don't do that lol


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> Huh. So even though I don't remember it, it's likely to be bothering me, in the back of my head / subconsciously?
> 
> @farsidejunky
> Thanks for the responses. I'm quite interested in this topic. I always took the route of "ignore it and carry on".


Yes. 

Ignoring it is the worst thing you can do.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Yes.
> 
> Ignoring it is the worst thing you can do.


Go on...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Yeah... I don't do that lol


Neither do I.

I hate it. But this is common for folks who have been abused. We need distractions from our thoughts and feelings. We are in effect running from them.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Neither do I.
> 
> I hate it. But this is common for folks who have been abused. We need distractions from our thoughts and feelings. We are in effect running from them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yep, I still do this... Its why I have a full time job, a second job in real estate, a third job managing our rentals, plus married, our child, my horses, participating here... lol There needs to be an emoticon for "hair on fire."


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yep, I still do this... Its why I have a full time job, a second job in real estate, a third job managing our rentals, plus married, our child, my horses, participating here... lol There needs to be an emoticon for "hair on fire."


Also, not the best at this. Meditation helps. Started with guided meditations because I figured it was best to listen to one person's voice than all the others in my head! Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ms. GP said:


> Also, not the best at this. Meditation helps. Started with guided meditations because I figured it was best to listen to one person's voice than all the others in my head! Lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I listen to every voice in my head because I am just an equal opportunity kind of guy. Gets me into trouble like falling off a car while it is driving and ending up with a concussion, and receiving brain damage, and brain damage, and brain damage.....

I love pie!

But seriously, we never consider the good side about being abuse, like developing a terrible humor. Ugh, what a lame and healthy person I would be, I bet my name would be mr. okay and feeling well.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Yeah. I was reminiscing with a friend about the first time we met. I said,"I was so crazy and sad" She immediately pipes up "but now you're happy and crazy" "Er uh, I mean that in a good way." I had to laugh at that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

My wife is also from an abusive home. A few weeks ago she posted this on my FB wall, and it ties into what you just said, Ms. GP:

"Us"









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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ms. GP said:


> Yeah. I was reminiscing with a friend about the first time we met. I said,"I was so crazy and sad" She immediately pipes up "but now you're happy and crazy" "Er uh, I mean that in a good way." I had to laugh at that one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You know what else is great, having that low self-esteem and going to town on that pie! Even though the tears are flowing, the richness of a banana cream pie gives my mouth an orgasm. Ah, the conflicted emotions. Those tears give the pie just enough sodium to enhance the flavors!

Those coping mechanisms are awesome, giving ourselves a reward to help battle the depression and getting that needed double chin! Pay for two seats for a plane ticket! Raises my self worth knowing that I am worth two people so all you skinny folks, don't be hating! I got one seat supporting my left ass cheek and another seat supporting my right ass cheek. Each cheek has their own seat, now that is treatment! And when you let one rip, those spread ass cheek will help limit the noise by limiting the vibrations!

It is great to be crazy isn't it.

I lack a filter.....


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I listen to every voice in my head because I am just an equal opportunity kind of guy. Gets me into trouble like falling off a car while it is driving and ending up with a concussion, and receiving brain damage, and brain damage, and brain damage.....
> 
> I love pie!
> 
> But seriously, we never consider the good side about being abuse, like developing a terrible humor. Ugh, what a lame and healthy person I would be, I bet my name would be mr. okay and feeling well.


Lol!! I read this outloud to my H and both got a great chuckle out of it


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

mr.fisty said:


> you know what else is great, having that low self-esteem and going to town on that pie! Even though the tears are flowing, the richness of a banana cream pie gives my mouth an orgasm. Ah, the conflicted emotions. Those tears give the pie just enough sodium to enhance the flavors!
> 
> Those coping mechanisms are awesome, giving ourselves a reward to help battle the depression and getting that needed double chin! Pay for two seats for a plane ticket! Raises my self worth knowing that i am worth two people so all you skinny folks, don't be hating! I got one seat supporting my left ass cheek and another seat supporting my right ass cheek. Each cheek has their own seat, now that is treatment! And when you let one rip, those spread ass cheek will help limit the noise by limiting the vibrations!
> 
> ...


rofl!!


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

The Narcissistic Cycle of Abuse

The cycle of abuse Lenore Walker (1979) coined of tension building, acting-out, reconciliation/honeymoon, and calm is useful in most abusive relationships. However, when a narcissist is the abuser, the cycle looks different.

Narcissism changes the back end of the cycle because the narcissist is constantly self-centered and unwilling to admit fault. Their need to be superior, right, or in charge limits the possibility of any real reconciliation. Instead, it is frequently the abused who desperately tries for appeasement while the narcissist plays the victim. This switchback tactic emboldens the narcissist behavior even more, further convincing them of their faultlessness. Any threat to their authority repeats the cycle again.

Here are the four narcissistic cycles of abuse:

*Feels Threatened*. An upsetting event occurs and the narcissist feels threatened. It could be rejection of sex, disapproval at work, embarrassment in a social setting, jealousy of other’s success, or feelings of abandonment, neglect, or disrespect. The abused, aware of the potential threat, becomes nervous. They know something is about to happen and begin to walk on eggshells around the narcissist. Most narcissists repeatedly get upset over the same underlying issues whether the issue is real or imagined. They also have a tendency to obsess over the threat over and over.

*Abuses Others*. The narcissist engages in some sort of abusive behavior. The abuse can be physical, mental, verbal, sexual, financial, spiritual or emotional. The abuse is customized to intimidate the abused in an area of weakness especially if that area is one of strength for the narcissist. The abuse can last for a few short minutes or as long as several hours. Sometimes a combination of two types of abuse is used. For instance, a narcissist may begin with verbal belittling to wear out the abused. Followed by projection of their lying about an event onto the abused. Finally tired of the assault, the abused defensively fights back.

*Becomes the Victim*. This is when the switchback occurs. The narcissist uses the abused behavior as further evidence that they are the ones being abused. The narcissist believes their own twisted victimization by bringing up past defensive behaviors that the abused has done as if the abused initiated the abuse. Because the abused has feelings of remorse and guilt, they accept this warped perception and try to rescue the narcissist. This might include giving into what the narcissist wants, accepting unnecessary responsibility, placating the narcissist to keep the peace, and agreeing to the narcissistic lies.

*Feels Empowered*. Once the abused have given in or up, the narcissist feels empowered. This is all the justification the narcissist needs to demonstrate their rightness or superiority. The abused has unknowingly fed the narcissistic ego and only to make it stronger and bolder than before. But every narcissist has an Achilles heel and the power they feel now will only last till the next threat to their ego appears.

Source: Christine Hammond, MS, LMHC


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

... in other words there is no honeymoon when you are with a narcissist.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
my case may not be very valid here because the issues were fairly minor, but I found it helped to really understand things that happened in my past. It added a level of certainty and from that control to life. 

My mother was an alcoholic, but I didn't realize it until I was in my 40s (and after she had died). My father did everything he could to avoid being at home - he didn't want children. I was slightly abused by a relative when I was away from home.

I was able to understand certain reactions I get now. to those and other issues when I was young. I was able to live reasonably without remembering, but remembering made things better. 

I don't know if the same is true for severe abuse. 






Kivlor said:


> I'm curious: What is the value that you see in trying to delve into things blocked out from childhood? If your brain thought it was so bad as to just fill it with a blank space, why try to recover it? I'm asking this honestly, because I've not even bothered trying... it just seems like it would open old wounds, when you've already healed up.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Red Sonja said:


> ... in other words there is no honeymoon when you are with a narcissist.


100% true. From personal experience, my honeymoon never came with my mom's narcissistic abuse until I made my own honeymoon by holding her accountable and she ran from it.

Thank you for posting the narcissistic abuse info. I had it on the list. Its a very important area to include. I have some links to add.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Eight easy ways to spot an emotional manipulator*:

http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/manipulator/eighteasyways.shtml


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*The Narcissists Suck Blog*


Narcissists Suck: "Best Of" Posts on Narcissists Suck

Large blog with a TON if information. Highly recommend digging into this one.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

How about something on Childhood Sexual Abuse?

I am certain we see the corpses of dead marriages due to the adult manifestation of CSA.

One in 3 girls and one in 6 boys are abused.

That's a lot of trouble out there.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

DoneWithHurting said:


> How about something on Childhood Sexual Abuse?
> 
> I am certain we see the corpses of dead marriages due to the adult manifestation of CSA.
> 
> ...


I agree. Huge issue. I welcome anyone to post on it. I have some resource links on healing I will add as well as articles that help explain the lasting impact of these traumas. It will probably take me this week to get them posted but here are the first ones...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Childhood Sexual Abuse Recovery Resources:*

Committed to Freedom

The book No Longer Alone by Sallie Culbreth


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Forgiveness-Not Necessarily What You Think article from Luke 17:3 ministries


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

So, the consensus seems to be that it's emotionally healthier to try to actually remember the abuse, and then address any issues it has been causing. How does someone even go about doing that?

This is completely counter-intuitive to me. I've always tended towards Stoicism and the old anglo "stiff-upper lip".


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> So, the consensus seems to be that it's emotionally healthier to try to actually remember the abuse, and then address any issues it has been causing. How does someone even go about doing that?
> 
> This is completely counter-intuitive to me. I've always tended towards Stoicism and the old anglo "stiff-upper lip".


Some areas are more obvious. Anything chronic, like noticing hyper reactions to something OR chronic non-reactions where there should be one.

Start with the obvious, then you will be skilled enough to move to the less obvious and harder to get to.

And if you say "there is nothing obvious" then consider denial as potentially your first big obvious.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> *Physical abuse* is any intentional and unwanted contact with you or something close to your body.
> 
> Sometimes abusive behavior does not cause pain or even leave a bruise, but it’s still unhealthy. Examples of physical abuse are:
> 
> ...


Blossom - I've been thinking about what I high lighted ever since I told my wife she needed to deal with her past or I would leave.

I ask myself the following alot -
Am I simply falling to the level of her abuser by putting her in a situation she doesn't want to be in, and would it be better if I just left?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Some areas are more obvious. Anything chronic, like noticing hyper reactions to something OR chronic non-reactions where there should be one.
> 
> Start with the obvious, then you will be skilled enough to move to the less obvious and harder to get to.
> 
> And if you say "there is nothing obvious" then consider denial as potentially your first big obvious.


Sooooo... for someone who has trained themselves to have extremely controlled responses? 

I mentioned earlier, I'm obviously aware of some of my "triggers" (ie women and knives don't go well next to me). My concern would be that, since A) I don't remember a lot and B) try not to permit emotional responses, that I am in / created a situation where I would have many blind spots. How does someone recognize something they cannot see?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Blossom, thank you for starting this thread! I have alot to say about abuse. Some people think abuse is solely physical but it is not. The effects of what another person does to us emotionally can lead us down a very dark road and we may not even understand what is happening to us.

My first husband and I were high school sweethearts, we married young and had our first child a year later. He was not a truthful person and with time I would find out he also was not a faithful person. We divorced after 7 years of marriage, our youngest was only 1 at the time of the divorce. He made no contact with our children for 2 years, his girlfriend was not interested in the children. She dumped him and his new lover encouraged him to have a relationship with the girls. Unfortunately, when he came back into their lives he came with stories/lies about me and about us. I talked to him, he claimed they were lying but he was also going to my friends and old class mates and doing the same thing. I would tell the girls these things were not true but I think the seed had been planted and more than likely there was confusion....why would dad lie? He and I have been divorced for 29 years and he has never stopped and the damage he has done has been significant. My oldest tells family lies about me and has for years, her father supports the lies and they have come to the conclusion that I am narcissistic, mentally unstable, emotionally unavailable. It breaks my heart! No, I have not been the perfect mom and no matter what has been thrown at me by my exhusband I have not turned around and created lies about him to tell my children. I had always hoped that they would be able to see thru their dad's manipulation but he is good at what he does and it has been very destructive for the relationship I have with my daughters. That is what I call abuse!

I have not been lucky in love at all, unfortunately. After the divorce from my first husband in 1987, I met an older man who seemed so kind and eager to be a part of helping me with my children. It was not long into the relationship he became very possessive and controlling wanting to know where I was at all times, wanting my phone number at work and calling me there when I should not be taking calls. I tried to break things off with him and things got worse, he threatened to burn down my house if I dated anyone else, he stalked me, took my trash that was set out for pick up and found my unpublished telephone number, he tried to run me off the road at a high rate of speed, he picked up my daughter at the bus stop and questioned her and then told her not to tell, he broke into my house one night and attempted to rape me which I fought off. I ended up placing 2 restraining orders on the guy, staying with family and then eventually moving out of state. There was nothing I did that deserved the treatment I received from this man and as soon as I noticed something wrong I tried to free myself but it took about a year to completely cut off, basically when I finally moved out of the state he couldn't find me.

I have been remarried now for almost 24 years. This man, I thought, was a gentleman when I met him. He wasn't all over me trying to get me in the sack. At the same time I wasn't sure he was actually interested either. he had told me about a dance and said I should go with him so I planned on it, went to his house (450 miles away), only to get there and he tells me that he decided to go with one of his male friends. But he never said anything and I just drove 450 miles for this? I should have walked then. Those type of things happened over and over again. I always wondered had we not communicated clearly and the more I tried for clearly communication these things never stopped. He would promise something and not come thru with it or if he did he did it his way and not how we had agreed and then said he changed his mind.....yet he had never expressed this and just went ahead? I could see he had porn issues and it seemed to me he was using porn instead of coming to me, we talked. He said that he wasn't ever going to beg a woman for sex again, he said he felt he had to do that in his first marriage. So it was me going to him and he was going to porn. Drinking was another issue...when we were first together I didn't see the full magnitude but when I moved in with him I saw that if there was a 12 pack in the fridg it would be gone that night. When he had too much to drink he became aggressive. We talked, I asked him to stop, asked him to seek help, he didn't want help, said he didn't have an issue, I was the one with the issue. He is the type that goes into a room and scopes every lady in the room and then locks in on one or two, I think he's caught up in fantasy. If he sees a good looking movie star on TV he either crosses his legs real fast or gets twitchy in his seat.....one of his big hooks has been looking up naked pics of stars. He has had 3 emotional affairs, more so infatuations on his part but nonetheless seeking and fantasizing yet won't give me the time of day. I have been in counseling for years. Every counselor says he is passive-aggressive and emotionally unavailable. What I can say is my life with this man has been extremely frustrating and it has tore me down and at times in the years we have been together I have felt I suffered from PTSD. This is definitely abusive. I hope to soon being ending it all with this man!

With all 3 men there was little physical violence. I was hit by my first husband twice, the older boyfriend would twist my wrist til I fell to the floor, my (now) husband broke my finger 10 years ago.

Crazy thing is my daughters from my first marriage both have a relationship with their dad and I have been put under the microscope and like their dad my oldest (especially) has made up lies about me as well. So not only did my husband walk out with his affair lady when I wouldn't be a part of 3-somes with him but my whole family has been ripped apart by lies and manipulation. Enough to make any sane person insane! 

I have recently started seeing a new counselor, one that has encouraged me to get out of my marriage and to seek healing for myself. Last session we talked about PTSD. Ladies (or gentlemen) if my story sounds familiar seek help for yourself and find a way out of these abusive relationships. We many times do not want to tear our family apart with divorce but our health suffers majorly if we do not.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Sooooo... for someone who has trained themselves to have extremely controlled responses?
> 
> I mentioned earlier, I'm obviously aware of some of my "triggers" (ie women and knives don't go well next to me). My concern would be that, since A) I don't remember a lot and B) try not to permit emotional responses, that I am in / created a situation where I would have many blind spots. How does someone recognize something they cannot see?


Haha .. I know of what extreme controlled responses of which you speak 


And I can tell by your response your gut is already talking to ya 

Ummm.. read something that lays out residual adult patterns that came out of abuse and you'll see your life lift off the page. The other thing you will see is a more balanced emotional state contrasted against it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Blossom - I've been thinking about what I high lighted ever since I told my wife she needed to deal with her past or I would leave.
> 
> I ask myself the following alot -
> Am I simply falling to the level of her abuser by putting her in a situation she doesn't want to be in, and would it be better if I just left?


This is the tricky spot that triggers SO many philosophical dicussions here. When you've reached your personal limit, you've reached it. I feel that being honest and giving them an opportunity to correct the limit is graceful. I think it matters HOW we do this. So, not necessarily, but possibly, so its important to be aware of where those lines exist. Knowing the definitions are important because I see it a lot on here that people think accountability is the same as coercion when its not, but it can become coercion when done wrong. Its about ethical accountability. I feel ethical accountability is one of the MOST loving thing we can do. A key to it is accountability bkended with emoathy as well as healthy internal boundary/sense if self.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

@AVR1962

I can tell your internal psychological boundaries are shredded. I realized how bad mine were shredded when I began noticing how someone else reacted to danger I was in versus how I reacted. My reaction was either severely delayed or non existant. That started changing for me when I got into horses. It became much easier to me to sense and spot personal danger when I saw a 1500 lb horse baring down on me. I learned to protect my space, because before that I got waylaid all the time. What I didn't realize is that I would soon wake up to the different types of internal boundaries and my phsycholigical boundaries at the time were non existent from long term emotional/psychological abuse. I had to learn what they were, where they should exist and how to maintain them, thus the book Boundaries by Townsend. I also had to learn to recognize psycological threats to my newly forming psychological boundaries, like abusers using fear, obligation and guilt to keep me under control, how to thwart it, thus the book Emotional Blackmail, Navigating Narcissistic Predicaments, and so many others listed in my signature link. I am glad you are ending your marriage. I pray you are now set on a path of deep healing. You've always deserved better.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

DoneWithHurting said:


> How about something on Childhood Sexual Abuse?
> 
> I am certain we see the corpses of dead marriages due to the adult manifestation of CSA.
> 
> ...


My husband of nearly 24 years has not been an initiator of sex in our marriage, not even in the beginning. One of our counselors that we saw together many years ago wanted to meet one-on-one with husband to explore this. he said that men who have been sexually abused have trouble initiating sex in their marriage. husband refused to go back to the counselor. He said that his sister had been sexually abused by an uncle, he had no memory of abuse but he also didn't want to find out. Unfortunately if this is the reason for his behavior there also was no healing to be had by dropping out of counseling.

My husband and I combined families when we married, his and mine and we had full custody of all of them. After the youngest step child moved out we found out that their had been incest and molestation among the children who had been raised as siblings from the age of 3-8 years of age. The most involved was the two older children. I cannot even begin to tell you how this has torn a HUGE hole in the lives of both sides of the family. My daughters have been in counseling for years. I have had so much anger towards my stepsons. The younger boy never admitted to anything but apologized "if" he had done anything....blah! The older boy did admit after 2 1/2 years in hiding once this came out and then promptly turned it on my daughter which my husband's family fully supported. The family has been completely split. The boys who I once had a relationship with, the boys I raised, have done nothing but bad mouth me....they cannot face themselves and I have been faulted to cover their shame. I have realized that what existed between the two older children may have more mutual than I wanted to believe in the beginning but I do find it hard to swallow that my stepson was a victim to my daughter like he claims. I have decided the truth will probably never be known and I have to accept this. I have no idea how the abuse has effected my daughter's marriages or how my stepsons' marriages have been effected by what happened in their childhood but I can almost guarantee you that their lives have been effected in some way.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

For anyone who lives with or suspects their SO is CSA, check out this forum - it's for us "partners of survivors"

Support for Partners | Support for partners of sexual abuse survivors

You have to join (free of course) to read the posts. They do this to add an extra layer of security for the members.
I have found it extremely helpful and teamed with TAM, has saved my marriage and made it MUCH better.

So many issues in my marriage have been caused by CSA when i thought it mere BPD 
If only I had known for the past 30 years. I thought I was the crazy one!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Just so destructive. It's why I prefer to expose this stuff to the light and educate on it. Lives matter.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think threatening to leave because your partner refuses sex on one particular instance is not reasonable and possibly abusive. 

Telling your partner that you want to leave because your sex life is not what you want is OK. 





FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Blossom - I've been thinking about what I high lighted ever since I told my wife she needed to deal with her past or I would leave.
> 
> I ask myself the following alot -
> Am I simply falling to the level of her abuser by putting her in a situation she doesn't want to be in, and would it be better if I just left?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Here is another important issue in abuse.... fyi

*Abuse by proxy* - "If all else fails,* the abuser recruits *friends, colleagues, mates, family members, the authorities, institutions, neighbours, the media, teachers – in short, third parties –* to do his bidding*. *He uses them to *cajole, coerce, threaten, stalk, offer, retreat, tempt, convince, harass, communicate* and otherwise manipulate his target*. *He controls these unaware instruments exactly as he plans to control his ultimate prey. He employs the same mechanisms and devices. And he dumps his props unceremoniously when the job is done."
*

Abuse By Proxy


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Given some past conversations I've had here on TAM, it's quite interesting to me to see objectification show up on a list of types of emotional abuse.


Sorry, haven't logged in for a few days.

But I think like with anything, there's a transmit/recieve kind of cycle here.

If things are good, and my wife is happy, and she's turned on, she doesn't mind being objectified temporarily. Like with most women I've been with.

But it requires having that as preconditions for the 'objectification' message transmission, and it needs to be temporary so it's fun. Just like how spanking can be abuse, or it can be a joyful Saturday night.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

marduk said:


> Sorry, haven't logged in for a few days.
> 
> But I think like with anything, there's a transmit/recieve kind of cycle here.
> 
> ...


People become addicted to abuse. Hence the Stockholm Syndrome posted earlier.

You justify it as "joyful", but also say "she doesn't mind."

Which is it? Who, truly, is it "joyful" for? And what "preconditions" are you advocating here?

My experience of objectification has always been one of abuse. Which is why I felt the affinity when Blossom posted it in a list of signs of abuse .

I get that many people do want to be hit during sex, they specifically ask for it. And if that's what they really want, well, it's not my business, and entirely up to them. 

Can't help but wonder, though, why this is the essentially the TAM recommended approach to male-female relations.

Personally, I will pass.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

always_alone said:


> People become addicted to abuse. Hence the Stockholm Syndrome posted earlier.
> 
> You justify it as "joyful", but also say "she doesn't mind."
> 
> ...


It is very important to differentiate between agressive hunger and abusive intent. I caught myself submitting to a guy who could have inflicted serious pain on me, fueling my self destructive side as an ACOA and it would have been like a drug addiction because of stockholm syndrome. Its like having a permanent port in your arm for drug of choice. I decided to not do that to myself since ACOA can get progressively worse over time. And it is a risk anyone takes who chooses to walk that path dom or sub.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

always_alone said:


> People become addicted to abuse. Hence the Stockholm Syndrome posted earlier.
> 
> You justify it as "joyful", but also say "she doesn't mind."
> 
> ...


What I'm advocating for here is an enlightened conversation about boundaries - because that's what gets crossed before it becomes abuse, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

marduk said:


> What I'm advocating for here is an enlightened conversation about boundaries - because that's what gets crossed before it becomes abuse, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I actually view it "slightly" differently. 

I believe the abusive intent/attitude is already present in the heart the abuser before they ever hit our personal boundaries. It's up to us to recognize a foul intent, that comes through education. And say "HEY! knock it off... that is now welcome here."

I also believe it is *equally* important to recognize when a behavior is NOT abuse.

And because some of these abusers can be SO subtle like my mother, there is gray area and it can be difficult to spot. Thus the reason to be very careful with it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I actually view it "slightly" differently.
> 
> I believe the abusive intent/attitude is already present in the heart the abuser before they ever hit our personal boundaries. It's up to us to recognize a foul intent, that comes through education.
> 
> ...


I've really been trying not to guess at people's intentions - this has caused me no end of trouble. 

In the cases you reference, how do you know the intention?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
It can be difficult to distinguish D/S from abuse - sometimes even for the people involved. Some people really do enjoy D/S play, other times is can be an abusers excuse. Sometimes the victim isn't even really aware that they don't, or have stopped enjoying playing that sort of game.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

marduk said:


> I've really been trying not to guess at people's intentions - this has caused me no end of trouble.
> 
> In the cases you reference, how do you know the intention?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Good questions. I agree... trying to guess in the moment can be head banging. And some of our personal boundaries are just preferences that if violated are not necessarily indicative that the person who just hit them was abusive. So, I don't do that moment to moment. I pay attention to patterns over time and when someone has an established pattern of harm, then it becomes educated opinion. And I begin to deal with that person differently as someone with chronic patterns of harmful/toxic/abusive. Then I pay attention longer to determine if it is intentional (conscious) or unintentional (subconscious). The details of what they are doing gives it away. 

I give massive amounts of benefit of the doubt but I have learned that can be a bad thing (that can beat ME up). I have also learned that while assessing it that I must be vigilant about my own heart, checking my own intent vigorously. There is a bible verse that says "be shrewd as a snake, but innocent as a dove" and that deeply applies to dealing with abusive/toxic people. You have to be able to discern when its malicious intent and when its just them coping out of their own deep seated pain and then your own heart attitude. Regardless of which it is... bringing light to the behavior is always the loving choice when it comes from a heart of love.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> It can be difficult to distinguish D/S from abuse - sometimes even for the people involved. Some people really do enjoy D/S play, other times is can be an abusers excuse. Sometimes the victim isn't even really aware that they don't, or have stopped enjoying playing that sort of game.


Exactly.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
A few questions people should ask themselves:

Are you ever afraid of how your partner will react to something?

Do you feel like you are bad and don't deserve to be treated well?

Do you believe that "everyone" acts like that? That it just isn't visible in in other relationships.


A "yes" answer doesn't necessarily mean abuse, but its worth thinking about it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> A few questions people should ask themselves:
> 
> Are you ever afraid of how your partner will react to something?
> ...


Correct


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

intent of abuse

I have seen intent of control. ie. He said I'm going to marry a girl much younger than me so I will be the one to wear the pants. or, She said "if my husband did that he would get a honey do list that would never end." Those statements indicate a unhealthy lust for control. Even some abusive methods of getting control. In the second year of my marriage, I returned home from a guys game night an hour later than she wanted. I found a note on the door that said "you are sleeping on the couch!". Abusive withdrawal of affection? or setting a boundary. Or (and this is a wild, out there idea) insecurity caused by feeling out of control and grasping for some sense of security? Control doesn't have to be abusive. Control brings security. Security makes confidence. Confidence inspires attraction.

So if I beg my partner to spank me, when I know she doesn't enjoy it, is that abusive control on my part? Could be.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> intent of abuse
> 
> I have seen intent of control. ie. He said I'm going to marry a girl much younger than me so I will be the one to wear the pants. or, She said "if my husband did that he would get a honey do list that would never end." Those statements indicate a unhealthy lust for control. Even some abusive methods of getting control. In the second year of my marriage, I returned home from a guys game night an hour later than she wanted. I found a note on the door that said "you are sleeping on the couch!". Abusive withdrawal of affection? or setting a boundary. Or (and this is a wild, out there idea) insecurity caused by feeling out of control and grasping for some sense of security? Control doesn't have to be abusive. Control brings security. Security makes confidence. Confidence inspires attraction.
> 
> ...


This is where it is prudent to self assess. I was in self destruct mode when my H and I met. I would ask him to do things that made him VERY uncomfortable on the sub dom front. It made him feel too dark inside. He shared that with me and so I no longer asked him to do those things, but in turn self assessed on why I wanted them. I wasn't going to ask him to go to a dark place and be in that space he didn't feel he could sustain.

Your wifes note on the door I feel could have been handled differently UNLESS that was not the first time. A lot of boundary setting is best understood within context. But still.. I would do that different.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yep, I still do this... Its why I have a full time job, a second job in real estate, a third job managing our rentals, plus married, our child, my horses, participating here... lol There needs to be an emoticon for "hair on fire."


And.... if my hair wasn't on fire enough, I just opened my real estate lead que to find over TWO THOUSAND leads dumped in there this morning.... :FIREdevil: now my hair AND my a$$ are on fire... looks like it will be a little while before I'm back y'all .... take good care of yourselves and don't forget to kiss your loved ones. 

Be back when I can :grin2:


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Blossom: Post #21 may be a record length for TAM!

I will continue to try to read through it all. Very interesting stuff.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe the abusive intent/attitude is already present in the heart the abuser before they ever hit our personal boundaries. It's up to us to recognize a foul intent, that comes through education. And say "HEY! knock it off... that is now welcome here."


I don't think intent to abuse is necessary for abuse to happen. Some people do not mean to hit, for example, they just see red and lose control.

The person who does intend abuse, though, is definitely someone to steer clear of.


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## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

always_alone said:


> I don't think intent to abuse is necessary for abuse to happen. Some people do not mean to hit, for example, they just see red and lose control.
> 
> The person who does intend abuse, though, is definitely someone to steer clear of.


I can guarantee those people who don't intend to abuse and lost control, can easily manage to stay in control when it's their boss, or a friend etc.. They do make the choice to abuse so the intent is there. For example, my mother would fly into rages and start beating me for very little reason when was growing up. Why did she not beat my father?or anyone else for that matter? She managed to stay in control just fine with them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sumij (Feb 8, 2016)

Abuse is anything designed to disempower, or gain power over another. This pertains to all of the types BL has listed - sexual, financial, emotional, and physical. Thanks for starting this thread as there needs to be more people educated as to what abuse it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

always_alone said:


> I don't think intent to abuse is necessary for abuse to happen. Some people do not mean to hit, for example, they just see red and lose control.
> 
> The person who does intend abuse, though, is definitely someone to steer clear of.


From what I've noticed from personal experience is there was an abusive attitude that preceded the outburst. There was something already present fueling that outburst. That's how I came to believe they are preceded by abusive attitudes.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> Blossom: Post #21 may be a record length for TAM!
> 
> I will continue to try to read through it all. Very interesting stuff.


Y'all are welcome. Just sorry I can't post much right now. My work day just ended. I've been up since 5. I'm chasing a big house right now against other investors... so tomorrow I will probably be out of touch a lot. I'll probably only be popping in for a few minutes each day for the next several weeks. So please anyone who has an abuse article they would like to share please feel free. I really want to post some recovery articles. So pile on your favorites while I can't


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*This lady really puts voice to the underlying abusive attitudes.... says it way better than me.. enjoy.*


*Verbal Emotional Abuse:
Attitudes & Actions of Verbally Abusive Partners*


by Dr. Jeanne King, Ph.D.


When we think of verbal emotional abuse, we envision the name-calling and slanderous character attacks common in emotionally abusive relationships.
* However, these actions, while painful in and of themselves, are only a small part of the emotional verbal abuse.

*The *underlying attitudes *of the verbally abusive husband (*or wife*) *are as crippling to the relationship as the foul words and verbal assaults*.

* It’s an attitude of disregard, disrespect and devaluing the very essence of the other person*.

*These attitudes may be unconscious and below the level of awareness. It’s like a blind aura of despair...hatred...unresolved negative conflict harbored by the verbal abuser.*



*The Attitude of the Verbal Abuser*

The verbally abusive partner may profess love toward their spouse, but it is a love of superficial affection and symbiotic connection.* It is devoid of honoring and admiration. 
*
Instead of cherishing the very essence of one’s partner, the verbal abuser clings to and cherishes the way in which his/her partner serves as an extension of him/herself.

*The verbally abusive relationship is the vehicle to stifle the authenticity of the abused*.

*...for the abused knows that life is rewarded only when they passively enable the disregard of their abusive partner.
*

The attitude of disrespect becomes the norm of the relationship such that the abused grows to expect a relationship atmosphere of scorn. 

And *that attitude is what ultimately starves and destroys the abused.

*
*Toxic Relationships Versus Nourishing Relationship*

When you live amidst scorn, especially from someone that “loves” you and for whom you claim your love, you grow to regard yourself as the projection of your abuser. You feel bound to a wiping post *simply with the awareness of this person’s presence.

*_Then, when they are gone for an extended period of time, you relax and, in so doing, you feel your own essence. Many people note the sense of freedom that overcomes their entire being. 

_*When the opportunity for nourishing support comes their way, they clearly see the distinction between toxic and nourishing relationships.* *(THIS is what I experienced in Parelli Natural Horsemanship.)

* They grow to realize the verbal abuse is only the icing on the cake. * (YES!!)

For the attitude of the emotional verbal abuser is their most piercing sword.
*


*Treatment for Emotional Verbal Abuse*

The *most effective *way to* interrupt the cycle *of emotional verbal abuse* is to help the verbal abuser identify the attitudinal component of disregard and disrespect*. *THE TRUTH DRUM Y'ALL!! COOL!* *Once done, he/she can intentionally recreate the relationship atmosphere of his/her choosing. * (Me and my husband!! cool) 

If you are in a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, step back from the verbal darts and* recognize your abusive partner’s attitude*. From here, your can better appreciate that the verbal abuse is this attitudinal component speaking...and the actual words have nothing to do with you. 

For more information about verbal emotional abuse, please visit Emotional Verbal Abuse: How to Recognize, Cope and Heal and get Free Instant Access to Survivor Success eInsights. Dr. Jeanne King, Ph.D. helps people recognize, end and heal from domestic abuse. Copyright 2010 Jeanne King, Ph.D. - Domestic Violence Prevention and Intervention 

This series of eInsights is presented to you by Partners in Prevention, a nonprofit organization. If you find this eInsight article useful, we invite you to contribute to the maintenance and growth of the Survivor Success Tips & eInsights. To make a tax-deductible donation, please visit Partners in Prevention


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*I like these thoughts on healthy ultimatums and is reflective of my own personal experience.*


*
The Upside of Ultimatums: Giving Healthy Ultimatums*


Posted by Erika C. 


On Monday we discussed the dangers of ultimatums, and just to be clear, there are a lot of downsides to ultimatums. In fact, I would say that probably 95% of times when you are tempted to give an ultimatum, you should resist. However,* there are some times when ultimatums are healthy, and even necessary*. If you are trying to decide whether or not to give an ultimatum, here are some things to consider.


*1. Is the Issue Absolutely Essential?*

Consistent cheating, alcoholism, drug abuse, or persistent lying may be issues where an ultimatum is necessary. Issues that seem smaller may require ultimatums as well, particularly those issues that must be resolved for the relationship to continue. If the issue is not serious enough that you would be willing to leave the relationship if the issue is not resolved, another method is more likely to be helpful. Cloud and Townsend’s excellent book Boundaries in Marriage may be helpful if you have difficulty determining how to set healthy boundaries without resorting to ultimatums.

*2. Have You Tried All Other Avenues?*

*Because an ultimatum is so drastic, and can be so tough on a relationship, every other avenue should be explored first, except in cases where the situation must change immediately for safety reasons (abuse, etc.).* Have you discussed solutions with your partner and given those solutions time to work? Have you considered your own contribution to the issue? Have you tried relationship counseling, either on your own or with your partner? Have you asked for advice from others who have been there? Have you given the issue time to see if it will resolve on its own? Don’t give an ultimatum until you are absolutely sure you have no other options.


*3. Does Your Ultimatum Focus on What You Will Do?*

One of the essentials for setting healthy boundaries (which is what you are doing if you use ultimatums correctly) is to focus on what you will change if the other person does not respect the boundary you set up. For example, if your partner is endangering your children through alcoholism, you might state that if he does not demonstrate a commitment to sobriety within a certain time frame, you will be moving out with the children until he has done so. This is not about punishing your partner, but about maintaining your health and safety and that of your family. In a marriage, the ultimatum should have a serious consequence, but one other than ending the relationship if at all possible, at least initially. You can always raise the consequences for an ultimatum, but it is difficult to lower them. Ultimately, the goal of an ultimatum should be to make life better for your family and your partner, not to punish your partner.

*4. Are You Committed to Following Through?*

If you give an ultimatum following the guidelines we have discussed already, you are likely to be giving an ultimatum for which there are very serious consequences if your partner if your partner chooses not to follow through with what you are asking of them. Before you actually give any ultimatum, you should make sure you are willing to accept the consequences of your partner’s decision and to follow through. If you are not willing to do that, you should not give an ultimatum. When someone chooses to ignore an ultimatum, they often apply intense pressure on the other person not to follow through. Not only that, but they may enlist your friends and family to convince you that you are being unfair, cruel, and heartless, and that you should not follow through. Before you give an ultimatum, you should be absolutely sure of your decision if at all possible.


*Example of a Healthy Ultimatum*

I think an experience I had while dating will be helpful in illustrating what a healthy ultimatum looks like. During college, I dated someone who was unable to commit emotionally to our relationship. For seven months, he frequently questioned whether he wanted to be dating, with no signs of a decision either way. I liked him very much, but by the time we had been together for ten months, my self-esteem was in tatters, and I was quickly sinking into depression. It had become an essential issue. Even though we were only dating, I worked extensively with him on the issue, sought advice from trusted friends, and even went into individual counseling. To be frank, I put up with much more than I should have: the threshold for ultimatums in dating is much lower than it is in marriage (and it should be). If you are dating and someone is behaving badly to the point of needing an ultimatum, you should generally move on.

Anyway, I finally had him give me a time-frame for when he would make a decision to either commit fully to the relationship or break up with me. He chose a date that was over a month away. I let him know that if he had not reached a decision by that time, I would break up with him. (Normally the focus of an ultimatum should be on the action that you will take, but in this case I suspected that he was hoping I would do the breaking up for him, so I put the responsibility on his shoulders and had my action as a backup.)

When we finally reached that date, he broke up with me. No, reader, that man is not my husband. As much as I missed him at first, I felt primarily a sense of relief; my depression lifted and my self-esteem slowly began to recover. He soon met another woman who he felt able to commit to, and they are now happily married, as am I.


Now, I’m not saying this story shows the ideal for ultimatums if you are married. For one thing, an ultimatum given in marriage should have an initial result besides ending the relationship if at all possible. Still, I think it shows the main ideas of giving an ultimatum: It should be done thoughtfully, only for essential issues, and can lead to good results in the long term even if the results are stressful in the short term.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Word, BL.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

marduk said:


> Word, BL.


Thanks! :smthumbup:


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## TXanimal (Jul 28, 2015)

What are your thoughts/experiences on the abused becoming the abuser?

My wife was beaten regularly by her first husband. And I'm not talking about being pushed around. I'm talking jaw wired shut, broken bones, and persisting spinal problems. Not to mention multiple sexual assaults and death threats. And he cheated on her constantly. And since the bass turd was a cop, he got away with all of it. 

Fast forward to today. I've been married to her for about 5 years. And she has become increasingly hostile and abusive. She is verbally abusive, she has broken hundreds of dollars worth of my stuff, she withholds affection as punishment (while at the same time demanding I show affection), she gaslights me, she ignores me for days, she threatens to harm our dog to hurt me, she left me laying in the driveway passed out from heat exhaustion because she was mad at me, she cannot hold herself to the same standards she has set for me, she has isolated me from my friends, family, and hobbies, and she threatens divorce constantly (every day this week so far).

Did her previous experience just break her? According to her, she went to IC once and said it was pointless. I've gotten her to go to MC several times, but she just sits there and paints herself as a helpless victim of "all the f'ed up sheet I do" (for instance, she has been furious at me all week because my cell phone decided to stop vibrating, causing me to miss one whole text from her. Before I realized the phone was broken. According to her, I have "f'ed up royally"). When the counselor called BS, she stopped going. 

She refuses to see that she has a problem. She refuses to address her past trauma. It's all MY fault. And I'm no saint. I've done some mean things. I fire right back with the verbal barrage. At several points I threatened to throw her out and take her car (it's in my name) when she threatened divorce. Stuff I would have NEVER thought myself capable of doing or saying. So I'm pretty terrified. I stopped doing all that a long time ago, just to be clear. I am not a mean person...I'm a pushover. But sometimes I don't know who I am. 

And part of me feels like a real jackhole for wanting to leave...she has been through so much. I just can't take any more. My physical and mental health are shredded, my work is suffering, I've burned every bridge I had. My limit has been reached.

I've tried an ultimatum, but her answer is "leave, I don't need you". I am going to heed that advice and file D papers when I get home from my work trip. But I want to understand...did her past abuse experience make her this way? Or is she just a nasty person? Can she ever get better so she doesn't put someone else through this? And am I at increased risk to abuse someone once I'm ready to date again? Should I keep seeing the counselor?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

TXanimal said:


> What are your thoughts/experiences on the abused becoming the abuser?
> 
> My wife was beaten regularly by her first husband. And I'm not talking about being pushed around. I'm talking jaw wired shut, broken bones, and persisting spinal problems. Not to mention multiple sexual assaults and death threats. And he cheated on her constantly. And since the bass turd was a cop, he got away with all of it.
> 
> ...



See the IC for yourself for sure. Its very possible she was like this before her previous marriage. Most survivors of a marriage like that don't come out the other side acting quite like her. That sounds more long term to me, BUT even if its not, she can choose different. I definitely would get away.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

It is very common for the abused to become abusive. 

That's what's so alarming and sad about it. It's a cycle that can go on forever, and spread.

You can't save her. I've been there. She has to want to get better, and you can support her with that if she chooses it. But you can't choose it for her, and you can't fix her with love. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I was in an abusive relationship, and people will often ask how to 'spot' an abuser early on in a relationship. It's not a sure tell sign, but looking back to that relationship, he told me that he was falling in love with me after only a few weeks of contact/dating. He wanted to rush things along, isolate me from friends, and monopolized my time a lot. At first, when you are new to dating someone, you find this very flattering...''oh wow, he wants to spend every waking moment with meeeee,'' goes through your head. But, that is actually a precursor to getting you conditioned to only being with him, and allowing him to control the relationship. After a few months, he was insulting me, yelling, and very controlling, and I had wondered where that 'nice guy' had gone to, but in truth, he never really existed...it was all an act to appear very interested in me. But, what he was interested in ...was controlling me, not having a mutually respectful relationship.

So, if someone tells you after two weeks or so ...''I can't live without you, you're soooo perfect, I'm sooo in love with you,'' and texts you and calls you non stop...RUN, don't walk away.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> I was in an abusive relationship, and people will often ask how to 'spot' an abuser early on in a relationship. It's not a sure tell sign, but looking back to that relationship, he told me that he was falling in love with me after only a few weeks of contact/dating. He wanted to rush things along, isolate me from friends, and monopolized my time a lot. At first, when you are new to dating someone, you find this very flattering...''oh wow, he wants to spend every waking moment with meeeee,'' goes through your head. But, that is actually a precursor to getting you conditioned to only being with him, and allowing him to control the relationship. After a few months, he was insulting me, yelling, and very controlling, and I had wondered where that 'nice guy' had gone to, but in truth, he never really existed...it was all an act to appear very interested in me. But, what he was interested in ...was controlling me, not having a mutually respectful relationship.
> 
> So, if someone tells you after two weeks or so ...''I can't live without you, you're soooo perfect, I'm sooo in love with you,'' and texts you and calls you non stop...RUN, don't walk away.


It can definitely be an indicator and is very wise to test this kind of relationship. If you can't have freedom to go to non relationship threatening places and seeing people, like family, supportive friends, good healthy things without major push back and fear of abandonment hyper reactions, this is not someone from which to expect a healthy relationship. I've said many times around TAM, not all "nice gestures" are done with kind intent and it is wise to learn the difference between manipulative "nice gestures" and authentic nice gestures.

Learning what abusive attitudes look like is key in this type of relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> I was in an abusive relationship, and people will often ask how to 'spot' an abuser early on in a relationship. It's not a sure tell sign, but looking back to that relationship, he told me that he was falling in love with me after only a few weeks of contact/dating. He wanted to rush things along, isolate me from friends, and monopolized my time a lot. At first, when you are new to dating someone, you find this very flattering...''oh wow, he wants to spend every waking moment with meeeee,'' goes through your head. But, that is actually a precursor to getting you conditioned to only being with him, and allowing him to control the relationship. After a few months, he was insulting me, yelling, and very controlling, and I had wondered where that 'nice guy' had gone to, but in truth, he never really existed...it was all an act to appear very interested in me. But, what he was interested in ...was controlling me, not having a mutually respectful relationship.
> 
> So, if someone tells you after two weeks or so ...''I can't live without you, you're soooo perfect, I'm sooo in love with you,'' and texts you and calls you non stop...RUN, don't walk away.


I told my then gf and now wife that I loved her and wanted to marry her within 4 days of our first date.

We had already had sex about 24 times and she seemed glued to my hips so maybe it was mutual. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I told my then gf and now wife that I loved her and wanted to marry her within 4 days of our first date.
> 
> We had already had sex about 24 times and she seemed glued to my hips so maybe it was mutual.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol... yea, its not always the case, but a good heads up is reasonable. My H and I moved quick too.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I told my then gf and now wife that I loved her and wanted to marry her within 4 days of our first date.
> 
> We had already had sex about 24 times and she seemed glued to my hips so maybe it was mutual.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too soon imo, but if it's workin for ya -- congrats :grin2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I told my wife I loved her about two weeks into dating. Totally by accident, it just slipped out.

I pretended I didn't say anything, because I felt lame. A couple days later she told me she did, too.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

The key differentiating factor is the intent behind it. In your cases here, it obviously was genuine. For abusers, they just 'say it' to get what they want, which is to gain quick trust from their victim, and then they are in a better position to control the relationship. This becomes quite evident shortly after he/she says 'I love you.'


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> The key differentiating factor is the intent behind it. In your cases here, it obviously was genuine. For abusers, they just 'say it' to get what they want, which is to gain quick trust from their victim, and then they are in a better position to control the relationship. This becomes quite evident shortly after he/she says 'I love you.'


Honestly I felt like the biggest loser in the world. She just did this thing (totally non-sexual) that blew me away, and it just tumbled out before I thought about it. I didn't even realize that I loved her until I had said it. Sometimes being an extravert is hard, you don't realize you feel or think something until you're saying it.

And then I thought to myself, here I am dating this super smart super hot girl and I just pulled the 'moving too fast and making it too heavy' card. But she just smiled at me and then I pretended nothing happened.

Luckily she later admitted that she had fallen for me already, and thought it was sweet, especially that I was embarrassed about it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If we're honest though, we don't really know someone all that well...after two weeks. You might be smitten, etc...but love? That takes time. And some here have had serious issues in their marriages after moving quickly into marriage, so...I'm thinking part of the problem there was simply not taking enough time to REALLY get to know who you're investing your time in. No one can know someone enough to really love them in two weeks. Infatuation, and lust...yes lol but, not true love...that takes time, because you have to know someone a bit longer than two weeks to get a sense of who they really are as a person.

Edit to add, in my own relationship, my fiance and I had an instant attraction to each other...instant. He's very much my type, I'm very much his, and we just connected on many levels. And that could be seen, quickly. We both think each other is hot, but I didn't feel love for him...genuine love...until about 6 months into dating him. Not saying everyone should follow the same play book lol but, two weeks? Hmmm, that just seems too quick to really know the person you're dating.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

sure... My H and I moved quick and yet it was over a year later that we were married, so we had some time after the initial rush.  It is wise to test those waters.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> If we're honest though, we don't really know someone all that well...after two weeks. You might be smitten, etc...but love? That takes time. And some here have had serious issues in their marriages after moving quickly into marriage, so...I'm thinking part of the problem there was simply not taking enough time to REALLY get to know who you're investing your time in. No one can know someone enough to really love them in two weeks. Infatuation, and lust...yes lol but, not true love...that takes time, because you have to know someone a bit longer than two weeks to get a sense of who they really are as a person.
> 
> Edit to add, in my own relationship, my fiance and I had an instant attraction to each other...instant. He's very much my type, I'm very much his, and we just connected on many levels. And that could be seen, quickly. We both think each other is hot, but I didn't feel love for him...genuine love...until about 6 months into dating him. Not saying everyone should follow the same play book lol but, two weeks? Hmmm, that just seems too quick to really know the person you're dating.


Nah, I knew her problems already and loved her anyway. Maybe even moreso, she was pretty open about it. 

I knew she would be trouble. And we dated for years before we moved in together, and married years after that - maybe 3.5 years all told before we married. 

I don't blame rushing in for our problems. I blame myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Nah, I knew her problems already and loved her anyway. Maybe even moreso, she was pretty open about it.
> 
> I knew she would be trouble. And we dated for years before we moved in together, and married years after that - maybe 3.5 years all told before we married.
> 
> ...


You knew all her problems in two weeks? lol I guess I date very slooowwwly compared to some of you. :surprise: lol

Why do you blame yourself? You mean you swept over the red flags and married anyway, kind of thing?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

*Deidre* said:


> You knew all her problems in two weeks? lol I guess I date very slooowwwly compared to some of you. :surprise: lol
> 
> Why do you blame yourself? You mean you swept over the red flags and married anyway, kind of thing?


I'm very intense in relationships if someone actually captures my interest. Which is rare. 

We talked for hours. Days. Then spent days in the sack getting to know each other. Went through our whole history and headspace. Intellectual interests. Fears, shortcomings, all of that. 

I knew she was headstrong, high maintenance, and temperamental. And as difficult to keep up with as I was. 

I knew it would always be a fight in one sense or the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

One of my favorite posts from another thread..



Affaircare said:


> @LosingHim,
> 
> There are two things that I think might be helpful for you. *THE FIRST THING I THINK MIGHT BE HELPFUL *is sort of an assignment. There is a pattern to abusive relationships, and this image sort of visually shows the pattern:
> 
> ...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

*Deidre* said:


> If we're honest though, we don't really know someone all that well...after two weeks. You might be smitten, etc...but love? That takes time.


If we were really honest. Completely honest, and without ego. You would say that you just cant understand every other person. And you would stop trying to fit me into your shoes. After all you won't like how they make my feet look.

It has never taken me 6 months to know. And apparently, I'm not the only one.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> If we were really honest. Completely honest, and without ego. You would say that you just cant understand every other person. And you would stop trying to fit me into your shoes. After all you won't like how they make my feet look.
> 
> It has never taken me 6 months to know. And apparently, I'm not the only one.


Not sure why you're quoting me, but ok.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

And in a relationship with a narcissist (possibly with other PDs, I don't know) the lovey-dovey stage is quite intentional, meant to create a NEED in the target to have the abusers love and approval so when it is removed, the void left is so huge the target does whatever is required to get that back - abandon friends and family, quit jobs, comply to anything the abuser wants just to get that feeling back that you are the center of their world.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

EnjoliWoman said:


> And in a relationship with a narcissist (possibly with other PDs, I don't know) the lovey-dovey stage is quite intentional, meant to create a NEED in the target to have the abusers love and approval so when it is removed, the void left is so huge the target does whatever is required to get that back - abandon friends and family, quit jobs, comply to anything the abuser wants just to get that feeling back that you are the center of their world.


Extremely true.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

*The most severely disordered characters are not the “hot-headed” types who sometimes let their passions get the better of them and do things they might sometimes later regret but rather the “cold-hearted” sorts who chronically and ruthelessly try to get the better of others*.

Personality and Character Disorders: When It's Serious - Manipulative-People.com

Great article on those who chronically abuse...

This author also wrote In Sheeps Clothing, which I highly recommend.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm watching the show The Family about the kidnapped boy...talk about in-depth insight into sick minds...the one abuser's wife, they're talking very calmly, she's just taken an FBI guy hostage to protect him, she's walking out of the room and she just goes 'oh, honey?' He looks at her and she says 'I hope you rot in hell. That's what I want for you' and just walk away. Creepy stuff.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

She told the boy that or the FBI agent that?


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

BL ~

I just discovered your thread .........it's wonderful that you started it!


:allhail:



VH


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Awwww... THANKS!!


Hoping it helps many!!


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Awwww... THANKS!!
> 
> 
> Hoping it helps many!!



Of course it will !!!!!!! :smile2:


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

The Secret Language of Narcissists, Sociopaths and Psychopaths: How Abusers Manipulate and Traumatize Their Victims - The Minds Journal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I believe one of the hardest rules to follow in relationships is the Golden Rule, especially when exercising boundaries, and even more so when exercising boundaries with a chronic violator. So, when a compliment comes my way from a VERY long term friend who uses words that deeply touched my heart, it is so humbling and is very much a reminder that the Golden Rule pays off in spades... Here is her comment:

"I like the way you always treat everyone as you would want to be treated.. with love and respect and you always have a zest for life! You have the biggest heart for man or beast, you have a heart warming smile and infectious laughter!" 

These are the priceless things in life, knowing you have impacted hearts even in troubled times. Just convinces me that the Golden Rule and speaking the truth in love is a such blessing not only to those around us but also to ourselves.


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