# Not sure what to do



## shadesofgrey (Feb 7, 2018)

My issues seems to be a popular one from reading these forums. I will get right to the point.... I have been married for around 20 years to my loving wife, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, nor do we have children. About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my wife started losing interest in sex. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we don't sleep in the same room most nights because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need. 

I have spoken to my wife about it, it's no secret. We have fought about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well. The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and now my wife refuses to go. She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O. 

My wife has gained some weight, and is not as active as she used to be, and to be honest, she just doesn't want to put the effort in sex, no matter what I have tried. She is independent, makes her own money, and I'm afraid that she just doesn't care enough about me to have to try any longer. Now if you asked me if I believed my wife loved me, my answer would be yes, if you asked if I thought my wife loved me enough to have sex a couple times a week, I would say, I'm not so sure. 

Sex is a deal breaker for me, I'm in my 40's, and I cannot go the rest of my life with someone that just doesn't care about sex. I'm fit, in shape, exercise, and take care of basic grooming, and have no performance issues. My sex life consist of internet porn, or nothing. I work around lots of females, and several single in their late 30's-40's, and they all talk about sex, getting some, and toys. My wife has never been a sex kitten, but now she is a sex sloth. 

Looking for suggestions, again, we talk about it, we have been to a therapist, and she knows how I feel. I'm just very sad that she is turning into her mother and father, they live in sepperate rooms, more than likely have not had sex in decades, and are both obese, and that scares the hell out of me. I need help............


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

shadesofgrey said:


> My issues seems to be a popular one from reading these forums. I will get right to the point.... I have been married for around 20 years to my loving wife, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, nor do we have children. About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my wife started losing interest in sex. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we don't sleep in the same room most nights because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need.
> 
> *I have spoken to my wife about it*, it's no secret. We have fought about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well. The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, *she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex*. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and *now my wife refuses to go*. She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O.
> 
> ...


Looks like you already have the issue well thought out and know the solution. You don't really need any advice other than who is the best divorce lawyer in your area.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

We are proof that there is a road back from the edge. Telling her "You have a problem you need to fix" was not part of the solution. When my wife had zero sex drive she knew it was a problem, but didn't really understand why it was a problem. She didn't know why it was a problem for me, or what to do about it. She also didn't understand that not having sex was not just about orgasms and where I got them. It was hurting our marriage because it was steadily wearing away the bond between us. I had to focus on letting her know why it was a problem for me, get her to see that it was a threat to the bond between us, and demonstrate that I would work *with* her to find a solution that worked for both of us. 

If you can figure out a way to get communication back on track then you have a chance. If not, then your choices are to live with it or leave. In my opinion, threatening to leave is not an option. You can't coerce her into having sex with you. Nothing will improve unless she wants it to improve. Your job is to help her see why she needs to get back in the game, without making it a threat. Threats just bring resentment, which just kicks the divorce can down the road.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

shadesofgrey said:


> Now if you asked me if I believed my wife loved me, my answer would be yes, if you asked if I thought my wife loved me enough to have sex a couple times a week, I would say, I'm not so sure.


It sounds like she is very sure of it. You went to a counselor and she was told straight out, she stopped going. She isn't interested. So what aren't you sure about? If sex is a deal breaker, then do what you must and divorce her. There is no reason for anyone to live a life of unhappiness.


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## m.p.murray1985 (Dec 29, 2017)

shadesofgrey said:


> My issues seems to be a popular one from reading these forums. I will get right to the point.... I have been married for around 20 years to my loving wife, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, nor do we have children. About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my wife started losing interest in sex. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we don't sleep in the same room most nights because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need.
> 
> I have spoken to my wife about it, it's no secret. We have fought about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well. The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and now my wife refuses to go. She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O.
> 
> ...


Buddy.....no kids! Not sure why you got married if kids wernt part of the plan but thats in the past. If your assets are equal and she is working then you can get away without to much financial pain also. Take the jump. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## bmorehappy (Oct 18, 2017)

Someone shared this article on TAM, and it was a bit of an eye opener:

Perhaps your wife may soften up to a serious conversation about your sexless marriage, if you can convince her to read the article.

EDIT: Ok I can't post articles as my post count is too low. Either way, you can access the article by running an internet search for: 'Is a Sexless Marriage a Loveless Marriage? - The Forgiven Wife'


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## LeananSidhe (Feb 6, 2018)

I’m new here so I don’t exactly feel qualified to give advice but here goes....

I think you should sit her down and tell her what you just wrote out here. Then see how she feels. If you’ve explained it all to her and made it clear that it’s a dealbreaker to you and she still doesn’t care....stick to your word and leave. It sucks and being a woman who has struggled with low sex drive, it’s a little hard for me to give that advice. 

The diffference was that when I was struggling with it, I wanted to make things better. I love my husband so much and I wanted to make him happy. I remember several years ago I bought this horrible powdered supplement that tasted like vomit but I took it everyday because it was supposed to boost my sex drive (it didn’t). It was easy to fall into the routine of not having sex but even though I didn’t want it, I could still feel my husband and I growing apart. We still had a great relationship and talked and laughed and were best friends...but I could feel the “lovers” part drifting away and it scared me. And at this time we were still having sex 2-3 times a month so I can’t imagine how it would have felt to go longer than that. That’s the thing...I wanted my husband to be happy. I wanted him to enjoy me as his wife. I wanted to feel close to him. I wanted to fix things to make sure we both stayed happy together. It doesn’t sound like your wife does...that’s a serious conversation you need to have.

Another thought... Is she on any kind of medication that might effect her sex drive? Mine was hormonal birth control. The depo shot made me extremely low energy, irritable, and killed my sex drive. I got off of last July and I’m finally coming back to life. I’m happier, more active, much more affectionate, and wanting ALL THE SEX.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

shadesofgrey said:


> ..... I have been *married for around 20 years to my loving wife*, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, *nor do we have children.* About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my *wife started losing interest in sex*. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we *don't sleep in the same room most nights* because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need.
> 
> *I have spoken to my wife *about it, it's no secret. *We have fought* about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and *even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well.* The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, *she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex*. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and *now my wife refuses to go.* She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O.
> 
> ...


Been there done that at an older age. 

My story was my wife and I drifted a part over 40 years of marriage into a sex starved marriage. Actually, I later learned we inadvertently drove each other away. We saved our marriage thought lots of change and hard work and the help of a great sex therapist.

Sorry the lady therapist was so blunt.

Let me tell you my story and it may give you some ideas, should you want to reconcile. 

Ultimately my wife started to use sex and my emotional vulnerability after sex every few months as an opportunity to emotionally abuse me. One night I said, enough was enough and said I deserved better.

I started to read every relationship book I could and see if any of them had an idea or two that might help or provide an insight into what was going on. 

The books that really helped and changed me profoundly were MW Davis the Sex Starved Marriage, Glovers, No more Mr. Nice Guy, and Chapman's 5 Languages of love. Honorable mentions to several David Schnarch books, Sue Johnson'e hold me tight, Pearl's Mating in Captivity, etc.

Davis and Glover both suggest Getting a Life, which means figuring out things to do with your life so you aren't codependent on you wife and that you have things that give you a sense of pride and accomplishment that you do with men. Also it often involves getting in shape, if you aren't in shape and dressing better and taking good care of yourself. 

Chapman's 5 LL really opened my eyes. The love languages are Touch (my primary LL), words of affirmation or praise (my secondary LL), quality time (my wife's prime LL), acts of service (my wife's secondary LL), and the giving of presents. None of them are "sex."

What I figured out is that my wife growing up with her parents saw her mother perform acts of service toward her father. That was what she thought a good marriage was about. My wife felt it important to cook a hot meal for me and have it waiting when I got home, as that was how a good wife showed her love. If I worked late and forgot to call her to tell her I would be late and that caused the dinner to burn, it was like I slapped her in the face and said I didn't love her. I had no idea. 

Another important concept for my wife was to have dinner together and talk about our days so there was quality time. If she started to yell at me (opposite of words of affirmation, I felt very unloved) and would bolt my food down and retreat to the TV so I could get some peace. That even inflamed her more.

On the other hand since I am a touch ll guy, when I wanted to tell her I loved her I would reach out to hug her, hold her hand, etc. She would yell at me to stop pawing at her just to get in her pants. That made me feel very unloved. Similarly, if I wanted to tell her I loved her, I would praise her (my LL) and tell her what wonderful things she did. She would then tell me to stop buttering her up just to get in her pants.

We were in a very negative feedback loop, and yet each day I tried to tell her I loved her in my love languages, which she rejected and she tried to tell me she loved me in languages that I couldn't understand.

When I figured it out, I started to give her love in her love languages each morning and evening. That really changed her attitude toward me. It didn't change the lack of sex, but she was at least more interested in me. She also was still ignorant in my love languages. I tried to explain and she sort of understood but really didn't feel she needed to become fluent in my love languages, like I had in hers.

This went on for a while and I insisted that we go to a sex therapist for marriage counseling. My marriage counseling was with a nationally known sex therapist. She was more tactful than yours.

After a few months of trying different things: Sensate focus exercises, readings on what makes a good marriage, trying to get us to visualize what a good marriage would look like in 5, 10, 20 years, the ST asked my wife what she thought would happen if we never had sex again. My wife avoided answering like the plague. Ultimately the ST got my wife to admit that we would likely divorce. 

The ST then asked me if I had ever thought of divorce. I said I had, that I had read up on the laws governing divorce in our state and the time line for a typical divorce. I had also promised myself that by a certain milestone birth day that I would be in a loving sexual relationship with a woman and that while I hoped it would be my wife and that was why I had changed and suggested therapy, I would divorce her if she couldn't give me the love and sex I needed. 

That was a true "deer in the headlights moment" for both the ST and my wife. The ST handled it well and said that was reasonable and allowed my wife time to choose what she wanted. She then explained to my wife that she would need to choose whether she wanted to be divorced or married and if married change the way she treated me.....otherwise she would need to live with the consequences. 

Ultimately, my wife choose to reconcile and we started having sex again. The ST helped up negotiate the frequency of sex I needed, to be in a happy, loving sexual relationship that would allow me to stay married to my wife. 

It was hard on both of us but worth it to save a 40+ year marriage to my college sweetheart. 

My advice is to read the 3 books I suggested. See if you can make your wife start to feel loved and cherished again. Then with luck you may get her to try sex therapy - marriage counseling. Because of what happened that may be hard, but is she is feeling loved and cherished that may help change her mind/

Good Luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Shades,
Most folks don’t have perfectly matched sex drives. For mismatched drives, two factors determine how large the actual gap in frequency is:
1. The raw difference in desire
2. The amount of desire to please your partner

Folks who have a low physical desire coupled with a low ‘desire to please’, are willing to divorce rather than have regular sex. 

The only real way to find out is to tell your wife that you are sad, and will miss her, but the two of you simply aren’t physically compatible and this is simply a hardship that you didn’t sign up for. 

I think she will likely agree. If she WANTS to stay married, then you need to be ready to say what your minimum frequency and quality are. Meaning, you need to let her know that dead fish sex is a no go. Else you will get dead fish sex. 

Unless she is willing to tell you how to make the experience good for her, this is unlikely to work out. 





shadesofgrey said:


> My issues seems to be a popular one from reading these forums. I will get right to the point.... I have been married for around 20 years to my loving wife, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, nor do we have children. About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my wife started losing interest in sex. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we don't sleep in the same room most nights because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need.
> 
> I have spoken to my wife about it, it's no secret. We have fought about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well. The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and now my wife refuses to go. She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O.
> 
> ...


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

No kids, a dead fish sex life, and emotional abuse on top of all that.

Its not worth saving.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can talk to her until you're blue in the face blah, blah, blah, blah and you'll just get more of what you've gotten.

She doesn't care enough about you to make an effort. 

Either roll over and keep taking it or move on.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I have said this before on other threads, but it is worth repeating. 

Young created a plan, and executed it with sincerity, consistency, determination and courage. He led by example, improved himself first and then let his wife decide what she wanted her life to be like. 

This is the best example I’ve seen of ‘taking the moral high ground’. 

Step 1: Improve yourself and the dynamic with your partner
Step 2: Make your minimum expectations clear
Step 3: Gently but firmly express that if you end up leaving them, it won’t be because you don’t love them, but rather because you have concluded that they either don’t love you back, or the two of you are fundamentally incompatible 

As a side note, Young’s heart was absolutely in the right place. With or without a sex therapist he was determined to find a way to make the experience good for BOTH of them. It likely came across as: sex needs to be something we do WITH each other. If it is going to be something you let me do TO you, I’ll pass. And that is a remarkably powerful position to take. 





Young at Heart said:


> Been there done that at an older age.
> 
> My story was my wife and I drifted a part over 40 years of marriage into a sex starved marriage. Actually, I later learned we inadvertently drove each other away. We saved our marriage thought lots of change and hard work and the help of a great sex therapist.
> 
> ...


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You say that no sex is a dealbreaker and then you ask for suggestions. Provided you are meeting her emotional needs, the only reason she wouldn't want regular sex with her husband is that a) she's gone off of sex or b) she's gone off of you. 

If no sex is truly a dealbreaker, then you already know what to do. Sounds like it's the only option you haven't yet tried. Divorce and go find a woman who desires both you and sex.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ehem, Young saved his marriage because both partners wanted it saved. 

If she has more to gain by splitting or preserving the status quo you're toast. If you feel you can "improve yourself" to the point of flipping the equation to your favor, go for it.


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## shadesofgrey (Feb 7, 2018)

Trying to answer questions, my wife is not on any meds that would affect her sex drive. I read that a sexless marriage is one that only has sex 13 times a year or less, mine is less. My wife would go 6 months if I didn't ask, and I no longer ask, and it's been 2-3 months. The last time we had sex my wife just lay there, I got mad, and left the room. The only reason I don't leave right now, today, is because I have known and cared for my wife for 20 years, and I don't want to hurt her, but I'm finding it hard to live with myself for not taking control of my life and being with someone that want's me. I feel like I am living someone else's version of life, and mine is on hold. 

The part I wrote about female co-workers was to say they seem to have an interest in sex at the same age as my wife, not that I was trying to get with them. We are by all means not on the same page with our sex drive, again, I could have sex ever couple days, my wife, not real sure. She has stated that she could care less if she ever does again. 

From what I have been reading, this seems to be a issue of the times we live in. I am by no means a male chauvinist, so please don't think that, but lets face it, women for the most part no longer need men. My wife is well educated, has a good job, and makes a good salary. She doesn't need me, doesn't want sex, so I'm just a handy man living in the other room, thinking about it makes me sad TBH. Japan seems to be in the same boat as I am, same problem.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

shadesofgrey said:


> My issues seems to be a popular one from reading these forums. I will get right to the point.... I have been married for around 20 years to my loving wife, like all marriages we have had our ups and downs. We do not have financial issues, nor do we have children. About 10 years ago, mid late 30's for both of us, my wife started losing interest in sex. It has only gotten worse over past 5 years to where we don't sleep in the same room most nights because it's easier for work hours, and to be honest there is no need.
> 
> I have spoken to my wife about it, it's no secret. We have fought about it, not talked to each other for days about it, and even went to a female counseler regarding the issue, which didn't go well. The therapist gave us several things to do, for both of us, to try and improve our marriage, but on the second visit, she flat out told my wife, that unless there is a medical issue causing you great pain, you cannot leave your 40 something husband high and dry for the rest of his life regarding sex. Needless to say, we didn't go back, and now my wife refuses to go. She will have sex if I make it an issue, and she if very cold and acts like she is doing me a favor. The funny thing is, on the few times a year when we have sex, she gets a O.
> 
> ...




- This is exactly Mrs.CuddleBug and I..........

- I've been married close to 20 years

- We don't have financial issues, no mortgage

- No kids

- We've talked about it and nothing changes

- She also works, well educated and enjoys her career

- Also needs to lose weight

- I am fit and in great shape, weight train

- I too view porn from time to time when my urge is too strong

- I am in my 40's

- Sex is maybe once every 2 to 3 months


- Scary how similar you guys are compared to Mrs.CuddleBug and I.


- My solution is to find hobbies and interests and of course go to a gym. When my mood strikes me, I get out my sex toys and sometimes view porn. Beats meeting ladies who only want friends with benefits and cheating.


- I too am handy around the house and Mrs.CuddleBug likes this.


- What I've learned in my life and from TAM so far, is LD's don't learn, make the effort and change for their HD spouses. They don't even meet them half way either. It's always the HD spouses fault somehow.


- If the LD spouses truly loved their other halves, they would make the effort, taking care of their HD needs as their own, instead of only their own, which is not cool.


- There is nothing stopping our LD spouses seeing a family doctor and getting meds to increase their hormones back to normal levels so their sex drives increase......but they don't do this for some reason.


- Did you know that when you have sex only 3x per week, so for example, Monday, Wednesday and Saturday you have sex and the other 4 days no sex, this reduced the chances of heart issues and attacks by up to.......50%!!!!


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

shadesofgrey said:


> Trying to answer questions, my wife is not on any meds that would affect her sex drive. I read that a sexless marriage is one that only has sex 13 times a year or less, mine is less. My wife would go 6 months if I didn't ask, and I no longer ask, and it's been 2-3 months. The last time we had sex my wife just lay there, I got mad, and left the room. The only reason I don't leave right now, today, is because I have known and cared for my wife for 20 years, and I don't want to hurt her, but I'm finding it hard to live with myself for not taking control of my life and being with someone that want's me. I feel like I am living someone else's version of life, and mine is on hold.
> 
> The part I wrote about female co-workers was to say they seem to have an interest in sex at the same age as my wife, not that I was trying to get with them. We are by all means not on the same page with our sex drive, again, I could have sex ever couple days, my wife, not real sure. She has stated that she could care less if she ever does again.
> 
> From what I have been reading, this seems to be a issue of the times we live in. I am by no means a male chauvinist, so please don't think that, but lets face it, women for the most part no longer need men. My wife is well educated, has a good job, and makes a good salary. She doesn't need me, doesn't want sex, so I'm just a handy man living in the other room, thinking about it makes me sad TBH. Japan seems to be in the same boat as I am, same problem.


FYI - just about every woman I've dated post divorce has been horny and great in bed (they do anything I want as much as I want). There are a few that don't show strong desire so I stop dating them within the first or second date, when I don't feel strong chemistry between us because I won't develop a relationship with a woman that doesn't meet my needs. If you are successful and in shape you'll have an easy time finding a replacement that is better than your wife, and if you are like me they'll be younger, hotter, more successful, and smarter too. 

Now the issue about women not needing men is really a non-issue if you learn to make them want you. This is done by giving them the space to chase and lust after you. A good book to read that will help with that is How to be a 3% man.


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## LeananSidhe (Feb 6, 2018)

shadesofgrey said:


> From what I have been reading, this seems to be a issue of the times we live in. I am by no means a male chauvinist, so please don't think that, but lets face it, women for the most part no longer need men. My wife is well educated, has a good job, and makes a good salary. She doesn't need me, doesn't want sex, so I'm just a handy man living in the other room, thinking about it makes me sad TBH. Japan seems to be in the same boat as I am, same problem.


Welp, you just lost me with that ****. Good luck to you. Make sure your next partner is uneducated and dependent on you for everything. Although if you’re wanting to have sex with someone who’s only doing it to keep a roof over her head and food in her mouth, you might just try a sex worker. 

I’m not saying that your wife is in the right here because she’s absolutely not. But the idea that if a woman doesn’t need a man then she won’t want a man is false. 
Your wife doesn’t want you. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s you, maybe it’s her but it has nothing to do with how much money she makes.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I’m a black sheep here, except I’m a wolf.

I ask why you chose that handle. Do you have fetishes your wife does not share?

My wife has fetishes. I am willing to meet her needs. 

But she has a very poor opinion of fifty shades of gray. Even my wife would want nothing to do with anyone who likes the book. In her opinion it’s just about a sadist who hires a high priced call girl.

Mind, most people here think I’m sadistic. My wife doesn’t, and her shrinks never thought so, but people always have different opinions.

I also have to wonder why you think your wife loves you. Self delusion, I am guessing. I suspect she would be relieved if you served her divorce papers.

The bit about women today not wanting sex. I don’t experience that. Some don’t, some do, from what I hear. Perhaps financial independence gives some who don’t want sex the option to say no, but I don’t believe it’s pervasive. Men say no a lot, too.

I did not follow my own advice when my wife kept lying to me. But my wife made sure we always had sex. So I’ve never been where you are.

But I think you should file for divorce. 

Good luck.


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## shadesofgrey (Feb 7, 2018)

I think you missed my point, and if you think there is no correlation between the two you can read several articles I found with ease, and one regarding Japan I think I watched on “VICE”. I’m looking for answers, and am frustrated, I could care less if my wife made 20k a year, or 120k. As long as we both felt satisfied and happy in our marriage. So please go easy on the men bad soap box. I don’t want a uneducated dependent, submissive girl, I want to be desired and have sex with my wife.
I will put it this way, if my wife came to me and said she would be exponentially happier if twice a week I put lotion on her feet and rubbed them for 15 minutes, I would be a toe rubbing fool. If I half way rubbed them, asked if after 5 minutes if I could stop, and had attitude the entire time, and told her I would rub her feet if I got a new pair if shoes, and knowing how much she loved and needed a foot rub, wouldn’t you question my devotion? 
So again if it’s not meds, not socioeconomic standing, not performance issues, not obese or have body issues, I’m very active, not talking about it, not from seeking help, then please tell me what? I’m here because I don’t know what to do. 




LeananSidhe said:


> shadesofgrey said:
> 
> 
> > From what I have been reading, this seems to be a issue of the times we live in. I am by no means a male chauvinist, so please don't think that, but lets face it, women for the most part no longer need men. My wife is well educated, has a good job, and makes a good salary. She doesn't need me, doesn't want sex, so I'm just a handy man living in the other room, thinking about it makes me sad TBH. Japan seems to be in the same boat as I am, same problem.
> ...


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## LeananSidhe (Feb 6, 2018)

shadesofgrey said:


> I think you missed my point, and if you think there is no correlation between the two you can read several articles I found with ease, and one regarding Japan I think I watched on “VICE”. I’m looking for answers, and am frustrated, I could care less if my wife made 20k a year, or 120k. As long as we both felt satisfied and happy in our marriage. So please go easy on the men bad soap box. I don’t want a uneducated dependent, submissive girl, I want to be desired and have sex with my wife.
> I will put it this way, if my wife came to me and said she would be exponentially happier if twice a week I put lotion on her feet and rubbed them for 15 minutes, I would be a toe rubbing fool. If I half way rubbed them, asked if after 5 minutes if I could stop, and had attitude the entire time, and told her I would rub her feet if I got a new pair if shoes, and knowing how much she loved and needed a foot rub, wouldn’t you question my devotion?
> So again if it’s not meds, not socioeconomic standing, not performance issues, not obese or have body issues, I’m very active, not talking about it, not from seeking help, then please tell me what? I’m here because I don’t know what to do.


I can also find several articles stating that vaccines are evil and Sandy Hook was a hoax. 

Read back what you wrote... Do you want to be desired by your partner or do you want her to feel obligated to you? Saying that the reason that your wife doesn’t desire you is because of “the times we live in” is a cop out. It has nothing to do with her being independent. She doesn’t desire you! If she were poor and uneducated and dependent on you then she still would not desire you. Yeah, she might have sex with you more often out of her need to keep you around but that’s not desire for you. Would that be good enough for you? Pity sex? Obligation sex? 

Spare me the “men bad” accusation. I love men. I desire men. I feel like I have cartoon heart eyes when my husband walks in the room every day. Not sure why me thinking that true desire has nothing to do with financial stability makes me on a “men bad soapbox”....

I don’t know why your wife doesn’t want to have sex with you. No one does but her and maybe not even her. Maybe she secretly hates your guts, maybe she has an extremely low sex drive, maybe she’s cheating. 
I have already said that I’m questioning her devotion! I have even said that I think you should probably leave. I’m not blaming this on you at all. There’s something wrong here and she needs to be made aware that you need things to change now. If it doesn’t then stick to your word and let this be a dealbreaker. 
You’ve been given similar advice over and over again here. I’m sorry but there’s no magic button. It’s a sucky situation.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

You're a perfect candidate to read "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay. Seriously, it's the cure for what ails you.


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## stiiky (Jul 29, 2017)

For starters, I would suggest sleeping in the same bed regardless of work schedules. I think that’s an excuse not to sleep together and doesn’t help your situation. It is common for women to lose interest in sex around that age but usually, it’s not medically related.

My situation was different than your wife’s but may have some relevance. After transitioning from being a working mother to a stay-at-home mother, I gained a lot of weight. It was because when I was working I could easily burn around 4,000 calories in a day and when I stopped being so active I didn’t realize how much less I needed to eat to compensate for those lack of burned calories. 

Of course, I didn’t feel attractive after gaining the weight. I did eventually lose the weight and then some but at the time I avoided having sex with my husband because I felt disgusting and didn’t think my husband found me attractive anymore. My husband always assured me that no matter what I look like, he always finds me attractive. I really didn’t believe him. You did say you don’t find your wife as attractive anymore and she could be sensing that from you. 

Why she put on the weight could be a number of different reasons. After gaining weight, you sort get into a lazy state of mind which could be interfering with your sex life. Don’t force her to lose the weight. She will do it when she is ready.

I think the counselor made the mistake of being blunt with your wife from the beginning. The counselor put her in a position where she must admit fault even though it may or may not entirely be her fault. Honestly, if that were me, I wouldn’t have gone back either. 

I don’t get to see my husband that much during the week. I see him for maybe 2-3 hours a day and then he is off of work on the weekends. Even though he is home, he wasn’t really there if you understand what I’m saying. He would play his games on the computer but not really pay any attention to me. When he comes home from work, it was nothing but negativity coming out of his mouth. I sort of stopped listening to him because it was nothing but negativity. Then when he wanted sex, he wouldn’t do anything to help me get in the mood. It was like trying to go from zero to sixty with no engine. I’m not necessarily talking about foreplay. Foreplay doesn’t do anything for me if I’m already stressed out. I needed my husband to cool it on the negativity and when he is home to spend some time with me.

My husband kept putting the burden on me to change when really I needed him to change in order to help me give him what he wanted. It wasn’t that I didn’t want sex. It was he would stress me out with his negativity. If you have ever been around someone that is constantly negative, you don’t want to be around that person. Being negative all the time didn’t exactly help me with getting in the mood. I have enough stress having two special needs children and I didn’t need any more stress coming from my husband.

For a long time, I was starting to think something was wrong with me. Really, all I needed was my husband to help me. After talking to him about it, we regained that emotional intimate connection again and it became much easier for me to get in the mood.

The best thing you can do is open communication between you and your wife. Talk about your problems and try to find out why she doesn’t want sex. Listen to her to understand. Don’t listen to reply. Don’t make judgments. Don’t get mad. Don’t expect sex for the time being. Just listen.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

SOG,

What may have happened is that your W had affair at some time in the past you never found out about. 

If so she fell profoundly in love with the OM and profoundly out of love with you, and never came back to you. 

You may even be able to identify a rough time peroid when it ended, did your W ever say to you I love you but am not in love with you. 

Many men don't want to believe this about their wives and/or are in denial.

Tamat


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## sadandlonely5 (Jan 5, 2018)

stiiky said:


> For starters, I would suggest sleeping in the same bed regardless of work schedules. I think that’s an excuse not to sleep together and doesn’t help your situation. It is common for women to lose interest in sex around that age but usually, it’s not medically related.
> 
> My situation was different than your wife’s but may have some relevance. After transitioning from being a working mother to a stay-at-home mother, I gained a lot of weight. It was because when I was working I could easily burn around 4,000 calories in a day and when I stopped being so active I didn’t realize how much less I needed to eat to compensate for those lack of burned calories.
> 
> ...


Yes to this! I used to be a successful woman with a great career and my own money, and then I had kids and lost all independence (very slowly and not easily detected, I assure you) and happiness. I never had any weight gain issues, but all the rest rings true for me. My husband is very passive aggressive, controlling and an introverted narcissist. He literally does what he wants even when I openly object and tell him how much I don’t like it or want it, from a chair to even something as major as a house. Everything is my fault, I’m always so miserable, controlling, helpless, clueless, fill in the blank. It’s very difficult to be attracted to or want to have sex with someone that makes you feel so mad and tries to rip you down and argue all of the time. When there is no effort put into romance, caring about what the other person talks about or wants, or even into foreplay, then no, I really don’t want to have sex with him. Literally trying to kiss me and have sex after not talking to me all night, and then blaming me for not wanting sex is a great way to tear a marriage apart.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TAMAT said:


> SOG,
> 
> What may have happened is that your W had affair at some time in the past you never found out about.
> 
> ...


I've never thought about this, but think you may be EXACTLY RIGHT in many of these cases. Because when a woman falls out of love with a man, it just never returns. And I DO think that there are likely lots of women that have emotional or physical affairs that fall out of love with their husband and for whatever reason don't divorce---- these are the sexless marriages that have lots of sex for a while, then it goes cold for no apparent physical reason. I really think you're on to something here. If a woman is not emotionally attached to a man, they don't want sex with them. If they are, no matter what he looks like, they are wanting him sexually most likely. Good Post!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This isn’t an issue of the times. And trying to frame it that way, is a very ego protective thing to do. 

Lots of sexually happy, healthy marriages. 




shadesofgrey said:


> Trying to answer questions, my wife is not on any meds that would affect her sex drive. I read that a sexless marriage is one that only has sex 13 times a year or less, mine is less. My wife would go 6 months if I didn't ask, and I no longer ask, and it's been 2-3 months. The last time we had sex my wife just lay there, I got mad, and left the room. The only reason I don't leave right now, today, is because I have known and cared for my wife for 20 years, and I don't want to hurt her, but I'm finding it hard to live with myself for not taking control of my life and being with someone that want's me. I feel like I am living someone else's version of life, and mine is on hold.
> 
> The part I wrote about female co-workers was to say they seem to have an interest in sex at the same age as my wife, not that I was trying to get with them. We are by all means not on the same page with our sex drive, again, I could have sex ever couple days, my wife, not real sure. She has stated that she could care less if she ever does again.
> 
> From what I have been reading, this seems to be a issue of the times we live in. I am by no means a male chauvinist, so please don't think that, but lets face it, women for the most part no longer need men. My wife is well educated, has a good job, and makes a good salary. She doesn't need me, doesn't want sex, so I'm just a handy man living in the other room, thinking about it makes me sad TBH. Japan seems to be in the same boat as I am, same problem.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Post below is quite good. 

It is possible she has given him lots of signals as to what she wants. 

There is no information about their non sexual dynamic in this thread. 





LeananSidhe said:


> I can also find several articles stating that vaccines are evil and Sandy Hook was a hoax.
> 
> Read back what you wrote... Do you want to be desired by your partner or do you want her to feel obligated to you? Saying that the reason that your wife doesn’t desire you is because of “the times we live in” is a cop out. It has nothing to do with her being independent. She doesn’t desire you! If she were poor and uneducated and dependent on you then she still would not desire you. Yeah, she might have sex with you more often out of her need to keep you around but that’s not desire for you. Would that be good enough for you? Pity sex? Obligation sex?
> 
> ...


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

bmorehappy said:


> Someone shared this article on TAM, and it was a bit of an eye opener:
> 
> Perhaps your wife may soften up to a serious conversation about your sexless marriage, if you can convince her to read the article.
> 
> EDIT: Ok I can't post articles as my post count is too low. Either way, you can access the article by running an internet search for: 'Is a Sexless Marriage a Loveless Marriage? - The Forgiven Wife'


https://forgivenwife.com/sexless-marriage-loveless-marriage/


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

One of the most common themes on TAM is the: It’s not me, it’s society

That theme guarantees that you won’t succeed. So far, you claim that you want help, while asserting:
- that this is a societal issue and
- sharing almost nothing of substance about your dynamic

This prevents fellow posters from making more than generic comments, and ensures no one can suggest that you are/might be contributing to this outcome. 

You can protect your ego, or actually work to solve the problem. But those are mutually exclusive choices. 




shadesofgrey said:


> I think you missed my point, and if you think there is no correlation between the two you can read several articles I found with ease, and one regarding Japan I think I watched on “VICE”. I’m looking for answers, and am frustrated, I could care less if my wife made 20k a year, or 120k. As long as we both felt satisfied and happy in our marriage. So please go easy on the men bad soap box. I don’t want a uneducated dependent, submissive girl, I want to be desired and have sex with my wife.
> I will put it this way, if my wife came to me and said she would be exponentially happier if twice a week I put lotion on her feet and rubbed them for 15 minutes, I would be a toe rubbing fool. If I half way rubbed them, asked if after 5 minutes if I could stop, and had attitude the entire time, and told her I would rub her feet if I got a new pair if shoes, and knowing how much she loved and needed a foot rub, wouldn’t you question my devotion?
> So again if it’s not meds, not socioeconomic standing, not performance issues, not obese or have body issues, I’m very active, not talking about it, not from seeking help, then please tell me what? I’m here because I don’t know what to do.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

In terms of Christian marriage, she has already broken her vows. You believe she's not interested, but from what you post, I's be inclined to think she has interests elsewhere. In any event, as others have shown, she's not interested in you.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I find some humor in the moniker fifty shades and then you are disgusted that she lies there.

That book is very popular for several reasons one is that the main character is tied up most the time. It's popular not because women desire to be tie up but free of the expectations that men often place on us during sex making it hard for us to enjoy it. If our head is constantly wondering am I moaning to loud? Do I smell, did I shave close enough, should I stop him and do x, y, z? A lot of sex is in our head being given permission to just enjoy is a fantasy that book fulfills the second is actually having a man that knows what he's doing and does it until we have great orgasms.

It's hard to tell from what you posted if she's asexual ( not my guess), if she quietly built up resentment, or if her sex life is just so humdrum that she could do without.

Not sure which but I'm guessing quiet resentment and Ho hum sex life. Without counseling or talking bluntly to each other it won't change. When this counselor talked to her about the sex did anyone dig into her issues? And of course some people won't open up about their issues in 5 minutes.

Sorry to say if this was an easy fix TAM would have found it by now. You will get lots of men who have experienced the same thing telling you to leave now. I wish I had a great alternative.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

anastasia6 said:


> I find some humor in the moniker fifty shades and then you are disgusted that she lies there.
> 
> That book is very popular for several reasons one is that the main character is tied up most the time. It's popular not because women desire to be tie up but free of the expectations that men often place on us during sex making it hard for us to enjoy it. If our head is constantly wondering am I moaning to loud? Do I smell, did I shave close enough, should I stop him and do x, y, z? A lot of sex is in our head being given permission to just enjoy is a fantasy that book fulfills the second is actually having a man that knows what he's doing and does it until we have great orgasms.
> 
> ...


I think this is a great analysis. There are two possible reasons she doesn't want to have sex with you: 1. She isn't interested in sex, period, with you or anyone else. Possible improvement if it's some huge hormone deficiency that gets corrected, providing-- if that is the case she wanted to address it. From what you have shared she doesn't give a **** that she's not participating in a sex life with you and isn't looking into this possibly on her own. 2. She isn't into sex with YOU. I vote for this cause. To solve, she would need to share what's gone wrong for her in the relationship, and you'd both need to work hard together to create a new dynamic, which would include addressing what's gone wrong for her and solving her not giving a **** about you as a sexual partner.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

anastasia6 said:


> I find some humor in the moniker fifty shades and then you are disgusted that she lies there.
> 
> That book is very popular for several reasons one is that the main character is tied up most the time. It's popular not because women desire to be tie up but free of the expectations that men often place on us during sex making it hard for us to enjoy it. If our head is constantly wondering am I moaning to loud? Do I smell, did I shave close enough, should I stop him and do x, y, z? A lot of sex is in our head being given permission to just enjoy is a fantasy that book fulfills the second is actually having a man that knows what he's doing and does it until we have great orgasms.
> 
> ...


What I had alluded to with my post is...

Mary says I am usually too obtuse. And in attempting to not quite put a point on her masochism I had been gingerly avoiding such issues, which tripped me up a bit ago. 

Please realize when my wife was first diagnosed as a pathological liar the diagnosis of masochism was also classed as a pathology. It was reclassified to be not a pathology after she began treatment, and after we were analyzed as a couple her masochistic personality disorder was dropped because it was decided it did not present a social or relationship problem.

From the choice of handle this poster made I suspect he is interested in sodomasochism, and alienated his wife with his requests. She subsequently fell out of love with him.

I think that is the scenario with the highest likelihood. 

Perhaps his request was to be the bottom. Or perhaps she refused to be his bottom. 

But it certainly could be as you suggest. Or as others suggest. The Original Poster has left the building I think.


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## cknpro (Aug 6, 2016)

"Wild at Heart" ; "No More Mr. NIce Guy" ; "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" - read them (I suggest in that order), live it! Build YOUR plan, work the plan, be the man! What do you have to lose?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

shadesofgrey said:


> My wife has gained some weight, and is not as active as she used to be, and to be honest, she just doesn't want to put the effort in sex, no matter what I have tried. .... I need help............


Sex happens because people feel connected and loved/loving. What do you two do TOGETHER? She has put on weight? How about long hikes during the weekend. How about joining a gym and working out together? How about doing one of those couples weight loss challenges. 

The idea is, doing a task/hobby together....brings you closer together in other things, like the bedroom. So contrary to what you might have been thinking, doing more non-sexual things together might improve the sex life too.


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