# WW used to want me to become "friends" with OM



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them or was interested in them. Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too?" Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that "we could be great friends". Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over too well with them because they were hoping for "exclusive" access.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a potential 3-way?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You should keep it to one thread. You will get better input .

I think your wife needs her head examined and both of you need serious counseling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Yes, my man, I heard of it. It's called, "let me see if these two stooges are as stupid as I think they are."


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> You should keep it to one thread. You will get better input .
> 
> I think your wife needs her head examined and both of you need serious counseling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Different topic so I started new thread. But yes same woman.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The behavior happened before marriage, so not sure it was "infidelity"


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. *Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them.* Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too"? Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that we could be great friends. Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over to we'll when it was a post-marriage A.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?


and



MAJDEATH said:


> *The behavior happened before marriage, so not sure it was "infidelity"*


Huh? :scratchhead: Was she banging them before and after the marriage?

and



MAJDEATH said:


> Started a conversation about which of her old BFs that she might run into back in our new/old hometown. At first she spoke of guys from before marriage that I barely remember. *Then the subject turned to the 2 guys she had affairs with during the marriage, 1 emotional and 1 physical/emotional, both co-workers.*


:scratchhead:

Seems like your wife's higher brain functions were probably scrambled by an overdose of happy brain chemicals provided by the 2 OM.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?


OP- did she ever ask or suggest a three way? 


I guess it has happened before- hiding in plain sight, but that is a real kick in the balls. Talk about her rubbing your nose in it. She must loathe you, which then has me wondering why she married you.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them. Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too"? Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that we could be great friends. Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over to we'll when it was a post-marriage A.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?


I think it's pretty common. The logic in WS mind is *'if there was anything going on then why would I let you meet him?'*. And of course people are creatures of habit so if it worked once then she just repeated the cycle.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

She probably has some weird way of reconciling the fact she is being unfaithful. If you meet the OM and like him/them, then in some alternative reality it somehow 
makes it ok what she is doing. Almost like permission?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's a woman who needs constant validation from men....several men at a time. It is how she feels needed and important and wanted. Her self esteem hinges on this attention. Her emotional stability demands a man harem. 

This is why she will never be decent wife material. She is Saturn and you and all her BFs past present and future are her satellite moons.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

morituri said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. *Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them.* Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too"? Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that we could be great friends. Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over to we'll when it was a post-marriage A.
> ...


Sorry I didn't clarify. Different guys before and after the marriage, but similar behavior.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

If you was in a committed relationship it was cheating

OK so you both cheated during the marriage. So I can see you not throwing stones at that time.

But, did she tell YOU this before you married her??
If so, why did you marry her?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

That was past behavior, how does she view it now? Does she think that she was wrong to do it or not?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them. Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too"? Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that we could be great friends. Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over to we'll when it was a post-marriage A.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?


My wife did this. But what made the situation even more weird was she had told me she was going to have an affair with a former boy friend and later told me "I think you should meet him. I think you will like him. Perhaps you and he could be friends."

She saw the expression on my face and said "Oh, perhaps not!"

But she did set up a meeting with him and me.

She did this because she genuinely did not see a problem.

Autism means her mind works on a different track. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

OP, this path she's leading you down will eventually end with you learning to enjoy the taste of cream pies. Perhaps she hoping they'll be served up right in front of you... 

She was then, and is now, not committed to a faithful relationship. The writing is on the wall. And on several other bedsheets. 


Run.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

workindad said:


> OP- did she ever ask or suggest a three way?
> 
> 
> I guess it has happened before- hiding in plain sight, but that is a real kick in the balls. Talk about her rubbing your nose in it. She must loathe you, which then has me wondering why she married you.


yeah, hiding in plain sight was my first thought.

This expression hit home to me when I was watching Breaking Bad.

One of the biggest meth dealers in the region who was revealed as being a big donor of community causes, as well as a big employer in the area of a legitimate business, he was telling Walter White "yes, I hide in plain sight as well."

If your wife wasn't having sex with these guys, I might have thought she might be one of those women who truly believes that men and women can be friends and no holds barred. 

But she was having sex with these guys, so no difference of opinion excuse here. 

The best thing to do next time around is to find a partner who is not big on male /female friendships.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

I think some cheaters get a thrill out of 'having a secret', the sneaking around, 'putting one over on my spouse'. Introducing the spouse to the AP is probably just a way to ramp up that feeling of 'we're sooooo clever! we've got a secret!'.

total disrespect.

Think of all the stories here about a spouse cheating with a betrayed spouse's 'best friend'.

It's one of the biggest lessons I've learned here on TAM; just because you know the person your spouse is hanging around, doesn't mean it's completely innocent.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I read your post and all I think is that this woman has not one but two men she is playing for the clown. Can you attach a picture? I have to imagine she is the most beautiful creature walking the earth for both to be putting up with this nonsense.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

My almost XW tried this very same thing. I guess if I had struck up the friendship, this would have camouflaged the affair better. She did a pretty good job, already, without it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My wife tried this (when we were engaged) with an ex of hers she still had feelings for. I think it was a way to have a built in excuse and an appearance of innocence when around the OM. If the OM is my friend, she's just hanging around with my friend. Hiding in plain sight is a good way of putting it. 

This was all initiated by my wife, arranging contact with the guy, etc. Though I do wonder how many times these situations are originated by the OM. Many OMs get a big kick out of getting one over on the BH, which is at least as thrilling to them as the sex they're getting. What could be better than pretending to be BH's friend while secretly fvcking his wife?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

In another thread you said that you gave her permission to sleep with guys because you went away a lot. So if this is true then why is this a problem ?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Being as my WW had an affair with a co-worker she introduced as and said we would be friends. Once I became suspicious I always wondered what he thought of when he saw me. Was it "hey schmuck I'm having sex with your wife too!" Or was it an adrenaline rush to look at me thinking I'm having sex with your wife and you're too stupid to know? At times I regret not causing him physical harm, I would lose my job and pension if I had. What hurt the most about this is my WW stood there as he made idle chit chat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Houstondad (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, this thread brought back some painful memories for me.I'm partially hijacking your thread so I must apologize upfront. But I do want you to see that this behavior you are dealing with is not healthy and will be detrimental to your marriage.

I had a similar situation when I was married. I had grown suspicious of my wife's friendship with another guy (OM) and ultimately he came to town for business and she suggested that not only do I meet him, but that he should stay in our guestroom for the 3 days he was visiting. 
Despite my suspicions, I agreed. 

He stayed with us for 3 days. Over those 3 days, the two of them did their best acting to make it appear that it was all in my head.Looking back, she had manipulated me to the point that I felt guilty for being suspicious and felt that by accepting this, it would help with my "trust issues" that my EX had guilt-tripped upon me.

So I met the guy and he came across as a cool and nice guy which made me feel even more guilty for thinking something was wrong. To add further insult to injury, we had dinner with my wife's father and brother and the OM charmed them as well.

So you would think how worse can this get? At the end of the OM's stay, he invited us to meet up with him and his wife a few hours away for a weekend on the lake. He flew his wife down and wanted her to meet my wife and I. The morning he left to pick his wife at the airport, I had a mental breakdown because despite his charms, my gut was telling me something wasn't right. Of course my wife laid the guilt trip into me and made me feel terrible at which point I started to cry uncontrollably ( I rarely cry). I then said I think I was depressed and delusional and I should probably see a therapist/psychiatrist. She agreed.

So with the overwhelming guilt, I agreed to go to the lake. Met the OM and his wife (who was also unaware) and did my best to try to believe it was all in my head. I wanted to tell the OM's wife what I had been going through, but in the end I did not. I was too scared that she would think I was insecure and FN crazy.

When the **** hit the fan 6 weeks later, I was in constant contact with the OM's wife. She went through the same BS like me. Had suspicions. Arguments and ultimately a breakdown during that time. She didn't want to mention this to me when we met at the lake because she was worried that I would think she would be crazy too. I also later learned that my EXW stayed with them when she was on business in their city and the OM's wife went through similar hell.

Looking back, I think it may have been a way to try to curb my suspicions so the affair could continue. It had to give the two of them a rush as well. 

As much as it sucks to type this up along with old anger welling up from deep inside,it feels good to share this with all of you. It's helping to get this out of my system because I've never really talked much about this on TAM.

If you haven't already, you need to tell your WW "NO" to the friendship with these guys. Tell her how you feel, and if she cared about your feelings, she would put your feelings ahead FIRST! You should come FIRST in her life, not these other douche bags. If she doesn't, then you have your answer. Wish you the best man.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ReidWright said:


> I think some cheaters get a thrill out of 'having a secret', the sneaking around, 'putting one over on my spouse'. Introducing the spouse to the AP is probably just a way to ramp up that feeling of 'we're sooooo clever! we've got a secret!'.
> 
> total disrespect.


This exactly....

I got the, "I think you and OM would be good friends under different circumstances. You have a lot of interests in common."

Cheater speak translation: This guy is a better version of YOU. 

Yeah... cause he didn't have to deal with my ex's drama after he left her in the parking lot to go home to his wife.

She's mocking you with the statement OP. It's an attempt to further cuckold you. Evil is what that sh!t is....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Or it could indicate that the WS often picks someone just like their spouse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I got the, "I think you and OM would be good friends under different circumstances. You have a lot of interests in common."
> 
> Cheater speak translation: This guy is a better version of YOU.
> 
> Yeah... cause he didn't have to deal with my ex's drama after he left her in the parking lot to go home to his wife.


That's pretty common BDad. It had more to do with her hyper-inflated ego than anything else. She believed the garbage coming out of her mouth because she thought you were lucky to have her and she had settled. It's history rewriting to save 101. That's the kind of delusional rationalization people don't want to turn loose of because the truth is so far from what they have told themselves.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Or it could indicate that the WS often picks someone just like their spouse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I pray this is not true in my case, he is much older, a coward, and a liar. I would divorce my wife instantly if she compared him to me. I can't even fathom being compared to this pathetic excuse of a male. You would have to meet him to see what I'm saying, I mean......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I, too, got the "you should meet him" and "you'd really like him" with the OM, after we had split up. (I didn't know there was an OM until several months after the break up, btw).

Slightly different scenario than OP's, but similar nonetheless.

In my ex wife's case, I think it was a way to allay the guilt she probably felt. If I met him, and liked him, then maybe I'd have been cool with the whole thing?

Um. No.

However, now that I think of it, there were a few similarities I guess. This guy was a musician and used to make Youtube videos and had a healthy following. We used to watch his videos together, and she'd tell me whenever he put up a new one so we could watch it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I pray this is not true in my case, he is much older, a coward, and a liar. I would divorce my wife instantly if she compared him to me. I can't even fathom being compared to this pathetic excuse of a male. You would have to meet him to see what I'm saying, I mean......
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then we have the "just like dear old dad" scenario."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I went through it. My cheater ex slowly and carefully insinuated an affair partner into our lives; friendship, childcare, workplace, social circle, everything, in some sort of sick fantasy that we'd all be a wonderful threesome soon enough.

I think it serves many of the cheater's purposes for you to be friends with their affair partner.

It gives the cheater some sort of validation. Their spouse thinks the affair partner is a good person and friend, therefore what the cheater is doing isn't so bad.

It gives the cheater more time, approved time no less, with their affair partner. Even if they don't do any sneaking around for physical contact, they still get to be near them for some extra time.

It allays some of your suspicions, if you see that they are well-behaved around each other, no matter how hard it is for them to put on that show.

It shares the burden (and thrill) of lying. The cheater is now not the only one lying to you, so it strengthens the bond between cheater and affair partner, that they are in this big lie together.

It lets the cheater help their affair partner with their spouse's approval and gives them a good excuse to be with them. Hey, it's our friend, let's loan some money, I'm going over to help paint the house, let's give this as a Christmas gift, etc.

It creates a sense of shared family for your cheater, if their affair partner hangs out with your kids, or even worse, if their kids become friends with your kids. And if everything blows up, it's harder for you to make the cheater go no contact if the kids are bonded.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If she wasn't already banging them, then getting to know them might have prevented her cheating - or stopped them from participating. It's harder to screw someone else's wife or gf if you know and respect them even a little.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Then we have the "just like dear old dad" scenario."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



First let me just say I have a lot of respect for you MattMatt, and I know you post from honesty. But that, that is just downright sick and twisted. I understand your point of view, and I can tell you that wasn't a factor, but that was sickening all the same. I actually was very close to vomiting after reading your post. However I know I will still read your posts, but that was just......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> In another thread you said that you gave her permission to sleep with guys because you went away a lot. So if this is true then why is this a problem ?


OP I really would like to get your comments on this.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

drifting on said:


> First let me just say I have a lot of respect for you MattMatt, and I know you post from honesty. But that, that is just downright sick and twisted. I understand your point of view, and I can tell you that wasn't a factor, but that was sickening all the same. I actually was very close to vomiting after reading your post. However I know I will still read your posts, but that was just......
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to have upset you but some women have daddy fixations or mommy fixations.

Often coupled with sexual abuse in early life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Often coupled with sexual abuse in early life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is something the OP has said about his wife. She (like my xww) was sexually abused. 

For many SA victims who never received the proper therapy, extra-marital sex isn't so much about pleasure but about empowerment.

While not every SA survivor is a broken person, extra caution is advised when starting a courtship with one.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

morituri said:


> This is something the OP has said about his wife. She (like my xww) was sexually abused.
> 
> For many SA victims who never received the proper therapy, extra-marital sex isn't so much about pleasure but about empowerment.
> 
> While not every SA survivor is a broken person, extra caution is advised when starting a courtship with one.


But sometimes we don't find out about our spouses being SA survivors until after their cheating.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> manfromlamancha said:
> 
> 
> > In another thread you said that you gave her permission to sleep with guys because you went away a lot. So if this is true then why is this a problem ?
> ...


Of course it was horribly wrong to ever suggest that she could fool around while I was absent. But I didn't think we would all be having dinner together either!

The worst was going to a New Year's Eve party at the OM's house. At some point in the evening I noticed my wife was not in the basement with all the 40 other people, including the OM's wife. I found her upstairs with the OM playing guitar in a room, both with sh_t eating grins on their faces. I said boldly "this is inappropriate for you two to be alone up here" and proceeded to take my wife home. Found out yesterday they were rounding second base in the room when they heard me on the steps. 

I know what you guys are gonna say, BIG RED FLAG!


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Houstondad said:


> Well, this thread brought back some painful memories for me.I'm partially hijacking your thread so I must apologize upfront. But I do want you to see that this behavior you are dealing with is not healthy and will be detrimental to your marriage.
> 
> I had a similar situation when I was married. I had grown suspicious of my wife's friendship with another guy (OM) and ultimately he came to town for business and she suggested that not only do I meet him, but that he should stay in our guestroom for the 3 days he was visiting.
> Despite my suspicions, I agreed.
> ...


Sorry to bring up bad memories, but sounds like you advice to the BS is always go with your gut feeling, even when the gas lighting is on full.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

My exh had an affair with the manager of our business. He would always invite her and her husband for drinks and events. He would even text her messages about how he wished they were alone blah blah blah while we were all sitting together. Maybe it is the rush? Messed up.... needless to say run away!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Back when my gf/W used to mess around, she would always want me to first meet and then actively go to events with the OM and her. Of course I did not know at the time that she was banging them. Was this a classic case of "having her cake and eating it too"? Or some psychological way of squaring it in her mind? She would tell me that they were "just like me" and that we could be great friends. Several of the guys told me later that she had approached them with the same idea about becoming friends with me, which didn't go over to we'll when it was a post-marriage A.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?


This is her way of overtly cuckolding you.

You being in the presence of her lovers is a turn on for her.

I don't know your story, you're not still with this woman are you?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tacoma said:


> This is her way of overtly cuckolding you.
> 
> You being in the presence of her lovers is a turn on for her.
> 
> *I don't know your story, you're not still with this woman are you?*


LOL...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/277034-6-affairs-still-married-after-20-yrs.html


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

What better way to disguise an affair and get your blessing for them to go out as so called friends if he becomes your friend.

Very sneaky indeed and a deliberate act.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

workindad said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever heard of this? Hiding the OM in plain site or hoping for a 3-way?
> ...


One time I remember her toying with the idea that we should try it with another person, but she was not specific as to whom and I had no idea she was already baging the OM. I think she was in the fog about 3 feet deep. There was no way I was gonna even entertain that idea.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't understand why you ever stayed with this woman. You have a very ironic username - sounds tough except... you know...


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Because any M is worth saving, if you are willing to change, admit your mistakes, and work very hard at R.

And maybe instead of destroying lives (which is what I did very well overseas and the effect that D has on all involved parties) I thought maybe I should try to save a few.

To me, divorce is not an option. Separate if you need to for a time, impose some rules with consequences if necessary, get some IC/MC, but work on doing the right thing for God, for yourself, for your spouse, for your kids, etc.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I noticed the few times the 3 of us hung around together he would always put my W down when she had stepped away, in a joking way. He was trying really hard to demonstrate to me that he did not like her (so that I wouldn't suspect him as an AP). His narcissistic mind probably really enjoyed running her down and knowing he had a secret over me.

My fWW also said recently that she was surprised that he was acting that way, as he had never done anything like that before.

It's funny, my EA partner also tried to get me to meet and hang out with her H. It backfired on her as I found out all the "stories" she had been telling me about how bad her H really was were totally not true. I felt bad for him and angry at her and broke it off shortly thereafter.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

An abusive marriage is not worth saving. A marriage where one person makes no substantive effort to fix things is not worth saving.

When your position is that divorce is not an option, you cede all power to the other person. You give up all leverage to get them to see a need to change, and until they see a NEED to change they won't change.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

There are other options!


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I recently spoke with OMW, and she confirmed that my W also became friends with her, frequently going to their house for dinner with the kids. I am hoping a psychiatrist can chime in and explain this behavior? Once the OMW found out about the relationship, she was furious that she had hosted my W, and provided meals and drinks. I didn't have the heart to tell her that they also had sex in the house.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

My XW did this for a good many years. Of course I didnt know it at the time. Over time I found out who the affair partners were, and then came the Ahha! moment. I would love to hear from someone in the "head" profession as to the reasons. Or, are they just plain nutso.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

I think it's a common misconception that a spouse would NOT introduce their affair partner, so they do in the hopes of throwing off suspicions. Affairs are supposed to be secret, right? with 'some stranger'.

But just look at all the stories of spouses being betrayed by their own best friends or even family members!


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ReidWright said:


> I think it's a common misconception that a spouse would NOT introduce their affair partner, so they do in the hopes of throwing off suspicions. Affairs are supposed to be secret, right? with 'some stranger'.
> 
> But just look at all the stories of spouses being betrayed by their own best friends or even family members!


You may be on to something, but I still don't understand it. But then again I am not a middle-aged married woman stuck in the fog! I was invited to karaoke night with the OM, a recreational soccer match to watch him play, a New Year's eve party, and 2 general bar visits to have some drinks.

Recently (upon questioning), the W indicated that it was OM's idea for this. She stated "he wanted to see if you were a big jerk to me and treated me bad when we interacted, and that was the reason that you wanted to keep leaving me for military deployments". I don't know if I believe her comments while in the fog.
I remember the karaoke night when the W and I were singing duets and just having a good old time, laughing and singing while he sat next to us. He sang one song and then left after about 15 minutes. I guess I wasn't a big jerk after all. My W was acting weird that night as if she wasn't sure what was going to happen. She told me just recently he left because he was angry about how we looked longingly at each other and enjoyed each other's company, and he couldn't handle that.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Majdeath,

I'm always impressed with your Ws willingness to discuss details with you, and I think it goes a long way to explain your willingness to work on your marriage. 

Does you W have fears that you will divorce her if she holds back, or is it more like you told her to just tell the truth and that any lies uncovered will result in divorce?

I think many of the posters here would avoid divorce if only their spouses would give them the full and undiluted truth. 

Tamat


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

> I am hoping a psychiatrist can chime in and explain this behavior?


I'll save you the diagnosis and let you in on the following:

You are the textbook definition of a cuckold.

Your wife can and does do whatever she wants and you come chasing behind her cleaning up the mess and trying to frame a story around it to make it look like she isn't the complete trash she is.

Every time someone hits you with the truth you come back with what I consider pretty stupid points of view. For example, if someone tells you your wife, with a long history of screwing other dudes, maybe shouldn't have other dudes as friends..... you immediately defend her right to have any friends she chooses and your marriage is too important to enforce any kind of boundaries with your extremely loose wife.

All marriages are worth saving? I have never seen a more misguided statement. In fact, I think most marriages should NEVER have happened.

Keep on the path you are and you'll be holding the om's Johnson between rounds with your wife before long (all while typing a new "Is my holding of the om's Johnson enabling my WW in her affair" thread with your free hand......)

Seriously, if you enjoy the cuckold lifestyle then all the power to you but what are you doing here clogging up a forum where ADVICE is given to people wanting to END infidelity. You clearly want no part of fixing the mess you are in.

Why not find a cuckold forum where you would find more people like yourself and your wife?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Rubicon said:


> I'll save you the diagnosis and let you in on the following:
> 
> You are the textbook definition of a cuckold.
> 
> ...


Wow Rubicon, where to start with you and your comments that have nothing to do with the thread title. I guess I could summarize with this one question: Do you believe that the only way to end infidelity is to D? I suspect that you are in one of two categories:
1 a former spouse who quickly played the nuclear option and D before you even knew what was going on or was capable of determining if it could be repaired, and now you are jealous of others who did
2 someone who has never had to deal with infidelity in marriage and rattles off his untested opinion to "dump your spouse" at the first sign of trouble because either your ego can't handle it or you are to stupid to figure out what happened

In the beginning of this thread, I was describing a situation that occurred more than 10 yrs ago, prior to successful R. If you must know, there are currently boundaries in place for both of us, agreed upon by both. She cannot do "whatever she wants" and is very accountable for her actions.

I disagree with your statement that "Most Marriages Should Never Have Happened". You are the misguided one. The Nuclear Family is the most basic human social group and is required for proper development of the human condition on earth. Breaking that up thru high levels of D is tantamount to destroying the human race. The greatest single cause as to whether or not a child will suffer from negative outcomes in life (drop-out rates, crime, teen pregnancy, drug use, etc) is D.

I post situations that occurred during the time we were separated many yrs ago and most recently my W has really opened up (thru my prodding) in explaining what was happening in her head, the situation, the dynamics, etc. I feel this is very rare & insightful information and could help others who are going thru the same situation without any insight as to why. It may not be helpful to you given the reasons I posted earlier, but it might just help another TAM reader.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> You may be on to something, but I still don't understand it. But then again I am not a middle-aged married woman stuck in the fog! I was invited to karaoke night with the OM, a recreational soccer match to watch him play, a New Year's eve party, and 2 general bar visits to have some drinks.
> 
> Recently (upon questioning), the W indicated that it was OM's idea for this. She stated "he wanted to see if you were a big jerk to me and treated me bad when we interacted, and that was the reason that you wanted to keep leaving me for military deployments". I don't know if I believe her comments while in the fog.
> I remember the karaoke night when the W and I were singing duets and just having a good old time, laughing and singing while he sat next to us. He sang one song and then left after about 15 minutes. I guess I wasn't a big jerk after all. My W was acting weird that night as if she wasn't sure what was going to happen. She told me just recently he left because he was angry about how we looked longingly at each other and enjoyed each other's company, and he couldn't handle that.




MAJ

This post has intrigued me with the response from your wife. I imagine your wife spoke badly of you to OM, OM then says he wants to confirm this is really the case and an outing is planned. Then your wife tells you that the reason he left after fifteen minutes is because you both looked happily in love. To say I have concerns would be putting this very mildly, I'm actually very concerned about what I see here. Did the affair end quickly after this night of karaoke? If not then what was the real intention of setting this night up? 

You see your wife is having an affair, that's terrible in itself, but if she went along with OM then she was being despicably cruel to you for HER enjoyment. This is how I perceive her actions. Your wife has an affair, OM says he wants to see the both of you together to find out if what she has told him is true. Stop here for a second, what OM would want to verify the story? So if the story is true, the affair ends because OM discovered he was lied to? No, and your wife knows OM didn't want to verify what she said. 

So you all go out to karaoke, you both look happily in love. OM gets mad and leaves after 15 minutes. Your wife reacts weirdly because she doesn't know what's going to happen. Stop here. OM sees you two happy together and leaves. So why didn't OM end the affair? He was lied too. Your wife is acting weird because he left? Why? Did she think I'm would return and they would have a lovers quarrel? No, your wife felt guilty, guilty for showing up OM by being happy and lovey with you. OM was jealous and left. His plan of feeling superior to you just got destroyed. However, your wife's intentions are still intact. She has just reduced the both of you to scum in her mind. Her feeling superior was never at such an all time high then that moment. She made you look like an idiot and reduced her affair partner to nothing by being lovey to you. Your wife probably acted weird as her mind began thinking the OM may want revenge and tell you of the affair. 

Whatever way it really happened, I know for a fact your wife is lying about that night. It wasn't OM who wanted to see you together, it was her. It was her desire to feel superior to you both, to put you both on the bottom, and for her to feel a high from those actions. What worries me is that this is calculated, and her true emotion is that people are pawns and she is incapable of empathy or sympathy. 

Just my perception.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Drifting On, unlike Rubicon, you make some very valid points that require further analysis and discussion. I remember a few months ago, when the true nature of this relationship with this particular OM came to light, specifically asking my W about the 5-6 times I was invited to hang out with her and this OM. Based on this thread topic, I asked her again this afternoon to clarify some questions:

*Who's idea was this to invite me to hangout with you two:* His
*Did you question his motives as to why:* Yes, because I thought it was a bad idea, but he was insistent to see what kind of husband you were and if you treated me poorly
*So what was his conclussion:*That you didn't treat me that bad at all, but I was sure to tell him that you were on your best behavior around him and that you were really an uncaring ass and that you were going to leave again in a few months, against my wishes

The circumstances related to OM's departure that night were also interesting, and which I haven't (at least I don't think) posted about before. This is long but bear with me. I came back from the restroom and OM was gone. W said he had to leave. Then she received a call on her cellphone. I ordered another drink and she walked away a short distance to get away from the Karaoke speakers to the other side of the bar. I assumed it was a regular call from a GF she had also invited out but couldn't make it. I couldn't hear what was being said but she seemed somewhat impassioned in her manner on the phone. This went on for some time (maybe 10 minutes).
I finally walked over to her and asked is everything OK? Is that Stacey (her GF)?. She looked at me and held up 1 finger (meaning I need a minute) and continued talking. I went back to my seat at the bar. She walked into the hallway at the back of the room, which led to the restrooms and a back entrance (while still on her phone) and out of sight.

After 10 more minutes our turn came up to sing again but I had to tell the DJ to skip us because my duet partner was AWOL. I went to the back area to check on her and she was not there. I went out the back entrance and peered around the corner of the bldg/parking lot. She was standing next to the driver's window of a pick-up truck (his) in the parking lot. I was too far away to hear what was being said but again it seemed to be very impassioned speech. His back window was tinted on the truck and this was at night, but I could just make out his form in the driver's seat. At one point she leaned in the window to the point that just her butt and legs were visible, but I couldn't see what she was doing - maybe kissing him or reaching for something on the seat. She soon stood back up and they continued to talk for 10-15 minutes. Eventually he pulled out and left and I went back inside before either of them saw me.

When she came back in I jumped her case (at first) for being away so long (30-40 min). I said "holding up 1 finger means I need a minute, not a half hour-WTF? What's going on?" At first she said a "friend" was having a crisis and she was trying to help him, without admitting who it was. Eventually she said it was the OM who just left, but she wouldn't tell me what it was about. I then told her I went outside and watched them. I accused her of leaning in and kissing him, which she denied. She said she was getting a cigarette from his middle console. This led to a big argument and we left soon after. I kept asking her what's going on between you two and she said that she was helping OM to solve problems with his marriage, that he was fighting with his wife (which in hindsight, was kinda true if you think about it).

This was a HUGE RED FLAG that I totally missed. And not a day goes by that I don't regret it and blame myself. They were basically having a lover's spat over what he though he was gonna observe about how the W and I interact and was surprised, which I found out later made him upset. 

Upon further thought, maybe she was manipulative and was intending to try and make me jealous by rubbing my face in it. Unfortunately, after being gone for any period of time, we usually went thru a great homecoming phase for about a month, before things went back to normal, and this was during that homecoming phase. During the times we 3 were together (this instance and the other times), they never once said anything questionable or did anything in front of me that was suspicious (hold hands, kiss, hug, sit close together/touch, etc). 

Her initial invitation to me was that he was a co-worker and helped out when she needed help during my absence (car breakdown/basement flooded, etc.) and that she thought we could become good friends, because we are so much alike.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Drifting On, unlike Rubicon, you make some very valid points that require further analysis and discussion. I remember a few months ago, when the true nature of this relationship with this particular OM came to light, specifically asking my W about the 5-6 times I was invited to hang out with her and this OM. Based on this thread topic, I asked her again this afternoon to clarify some questions:
> 
> *Who's idea was this to invite me to hangout with you two:* His
> *Did you question his motives as to why:* Yes, because I thought it was a bad idea, but he was insistent to see what kind of husband you were and if you treated me poorly
> ...




MAJ

I apologize as I can't give you my insight to this due to time constraints at the moment. It has been a chaotic morning for me so far but I will respond to this when I have more time. I will tell you this much now though, your wife is gas lighting to you even to this day. I'm not trying to be rude, nor am I trying to anger you, but you've flushed better looking crap down a toilet then what she's saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I went out the back entrance and peered around the corner of the bldg/parking lot. She was standing next to the driver's window of a pick-up truck (his) in the parking lot. I was too far away to hear what was being said but again it seemed to be very impassioned speech. His back window was tinted on the truck and this was at night, but I could just make out his form in the driver's seat. At one point she leaned in the window to the point that just her butt and legs were visible, but I couldn't see what she was doing - maybe kissing him or reaching for something on the seat. She soon stood back up and they continued to talk for 10-15 minutes. Eventually he pulled out and left and I went back inside before either of them saw me.
> 
> When she came back in I jumped her case (at first) for being away so long (30-40 min). I said "holding up 1 finger means I need a minute, not a half hour-WTF? What's going on?" At first she said a "friend" was having a crisis and she was trying to help him, without admitting who it was. Eventually she said it was the OM who just left, but she wouldn't tell me what it was about. I then told her I went outside and watched them. I accused her of leaning in and kissing him, which she denied. She said she was getting a cigarette from his middle console. This led to a big argument and we left soon after. I kept asking her what's going on between you two and she said that she was helping OM to solve problems with his marriage, that he was fighting with his wife (which in hindsight, was kinda true if you think about it).
> 
> ...



"Huge red flag"... I'd say so. It pretty much covered that parking lot.

I'll simplify it for you. Your wife went out on a date, with her husband AND her boyfriend. The boyfriend got p!ssed that he was having to share her with you and left. You in turn argued with your wife for a while, then life went on.

You're dreaming if you think that she's never gone PA with the OM.

When she leaned in to his truck to kiss him, that's when you should have yelled her "What the fvck are you doing!".

She's gotten away with this so long because you have allowed it to continue.

You are her snug harbor and the OM is her raging seas...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I find it interesting to see how you can recall some of these things that happened so long ago.

I guess in my case I wasn't even paying attention much less giving a crap how long my old lady was gone when we went out.

But I do recall how often my old lady would go out side to smoke....I'm betting there were a few time my old lady was half way into some guys truck making out while I was drinking away at the bar.

I didn't give a shyt about my old lady to the point my "good friend" made out with my wife in the womens rest room at a bar....took her home that evening, phucker her and went to sleep....any way I passed out and she took off and they phucked in a hotel room.

That was the only time my old lady brought her shyt around me... for the most part her 1st life and her second life never got that close....

That's the one thing that makes this so odd... for me at least....how your old lady could have her 2 lives so close as to bring an OM home, give an OM a key to the house, or have an OM meet her husband,....

I do however recall one of my old ladies OMs want to meet me, don't remember which one but after that request she bailed on him. It may have been the same one that wanted to know were she lived. There have been a few that really wanted the girl friend experience with her but she wouldn't allow it. That's the thing in my case...when ever an OMs would want to get that close to her she would bail. 

Again I just find it interesting how our chicks are so much a like IMHO but one difference with regards to they managed their 1st and 2nd lives.

I'm guessing your deployments made that a factor , were as I was always around.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

IDK man. I think you were way too hasty to reconcile.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> IDK man. I think you were way too hasty to reconcile.


INK
Can't speak for OP, but I think there was nothing there to reconcile.
I think there was not much of a marriage there in the first place.
I mean with all the deployments along with the history of the thread as I see it...the marriage didn't really start until *they* finally committed to each other. I'm guessing they didn't really know each other in the 1st half of the marriage and didn't know what they were getting into.

Maybe I'm wrong.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Yes, my man, I heard of it. It's called, "let me see if these two stooges are as stupid as I think they are."


There is another reason or combination of reasons.

A WS sees something in another person that they saw in their own spouse. They genuinely believe spouse and AP are so similar that they would be friends if they met. So they want them to meet so they can have the two as friends together.

The two great loves of their life as friends? They like that idea.

It is nonsense but the way some Waywards think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Drifting On, unlike Rubicon, you make some very valid points that require further analysis and discussion. I remember a few months ago, when the true nature of this relationship with this particular OM came to light, specifically asking my W about the 5-6 times I was invited to hang out with her and this OM. Based on this thread topic, I asked her again this afternoon to clarify some questions:
> 
> *Who's idea was this to invite me to hangout with you two:* His
> *Did you question his motives as to why:* Yes, because I thought it was a bad idea, but he was insistent to see what kind of husband you were and if you treated me poorly
> ...




MAJ

I'm sorry I couldn't respond to this yesterday, turned out the whole day was chaotic. What I'm going to say you probably won't like, may anger you, but an outsiders view may show you what you are really dealing with. 

I'm not so sure the OM is narcissistic, I'm seeing that it may be your wife and some issues she has. At the moment I see your wife as vindictive, wanting complete control of you. It's the vindictiveness that has me worried the most, she will destroy anyone to cause pain to you in the form of infidelity. Wanting you to become friends with OM was to literally remove your soul, she wanted to own you. OM says he wants to go out with both of you, how many times did he have to ask her? How many times did she say no? You see MAJ she agreed with OM, said yes, and took an incredible risk to date you both. The fact that she and OM had a lovers quarrel is the OM was controlling your wife. Your wife allowed you both to date her in the hopes she could control and manipulate both of you. 

This would have been the biggest power feeling that she could ever get, dating you both at the same time. I say dating you both because in her mind she thought she could control you both. The affair continued because she probably made several sexual promises to OM to continue. Your wife could not stand the fact that she could not control OM, and you not leaving her at the bar that night sealed the fact she had controlled. As sick as this is, and I hate this word with all my being, but your wife not only made you a cuckold, she enjoyed. 

Now Rubicon made reference to the cuckold, I know you got upset at his post, but it was the driving force internally, that your wife make you one. Your wife also was attempting to make her OM into a cuckold, most likely never spoke of between your wife and OM, but OM seeing you two happy probably wanted to end the affair. This is why the lovers quarrel happened. At that point your wife was so angry with OM she had to retaliate to gain control. OM wasn't buying it, but your wife was desperate to keep the affair active. If the affair died then OM was strictly using your wife and she couldn't stand that fact. So she went outside and for 30-40 minutes saved her affair and was able to do this in front of you. By keeping the affair going gave her a sense of control over OM and we already know she controlled you. 

Today you ask questions, you see that more questions need to be asked, and more definitive answers need to be given. Yet she says it's all the OM's idea, ok, but why did she agree? You should be asking how much of a high she had sitting between her lover and husband? How did she feel leaning into the truck risking being seen? How did she feel at dinner at OM's house? Don't forget, your wife was in a euphoric state just sitting in OM's house next to OMW knowing she had sex with OMW husband. A total high and she made a cuckold out of OMW! Your wife is sadistic in some of her thoughts, and not giving the full truth by admission and to this day is gas lighting you. She also feels she still controls you because she has withheld the truth. There is probably many details you still don't know about, like many of her affairs. I'm not sure you will ever know, to tell you would break her, keep her from the high she still feels today. 

Best of luck to you MAJ.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> A WS sees something in another person that they saw in their own spouse. They genuinely believe spouse and AP are so similar that they would be friends if they met. So they want them to meet so they can have the two as friends together.
> 
> The two great loves of their life as friends? They like that idea.


Just like having two pets in the house, you get to enjoy both of them without having to travel.

My wife wanted me to be best buddies with her ex, assclown. Idk why she thought I would like him or want to be around him. She was still in love with him and carried a torch for him many years after we were married. She wanted to have some excuse to be able to be around him more.

It is easier to have contact with both men if they are friends. I think too there is some thrill in it to have the BH not know he is in the presence of an OM.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

drifting on said:


> Wanting you to become friends with OM was to literally remove your soul, she wanted to own you. OM says he wants to go out with both of you, how many times did he have to ask her? How many times did she say no?


It was a move to make MAJ the beta to OM. She was controlling him, yes, and she was putting him in a lower position to OM as the unsuspecting cuckold whom she manipulated into liking and befriending the OM.

We only have her word that OM instigated the meeting. Even if he did initiate it, she went along with it.

I agree with your analysis. When a WW tries to get her H to be friends with OM, the motivation is one of her gaining control and superiority.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

No idea why this marriage was ever saved. This was a dumpster fire, and I doubt this marriage is healthy today. A lot of unresolved issues.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I couldn't be friends or even acquaintances with someone from wife's past and wouldn't tolerate it for a second if she even suggested it. 

OP is very liberal minded compared to me. Maybe it's generational thing but I don't get being able to overlook this level of betrayal.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MAJ has a lot of hurt and pain that he never dealt with in a healthy or correct manner. We see before us the wasteland caused when two people have no marital boundaries whatsoever in their lives. His threads and posts here are a display of scar tissue piled on top of itself.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> MAJ has a lot of hurt and pain that he never dealt with in a healthy or correct manner. We see before us the wasteland caused when two people have no marital boundaries whatsoever in their lives. His threads and posts here are a display of scar tissue piled on top of itself.




I think both are carrying pain that was never probably dealt with correctly. Both had an equal hand in destroying the marriage with their acts of infidelity. I may be the only person besides Mr. and Mrs MAJ to say this but they could reconcile the correct way. Both have cheated, maybe one was worse then the other, but they have managed to make it work thus far. MAJ and his misses just need to decide if they want this together. Perhaps they can ease each other's pain, perhaps they find peace and happiness, it's their choice and their life. I won't recommend either way, that's not the purpose of this thread, but the betrayal was one that cut very deeply.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Dont forget this one. Two months ago he find pictures and letters from OM.
His wife told him she was clean with it.No more memories about OM.
Also his wife was so ANGRY with him because he find about them.

One more thing. One month ago his wife was alone in neighbour house,saying she was showing him some stuff.

I would rather be solo and die solo then have a wife like this one.

Sorry if I am rude.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

You guys all bring up very good points. Perhaps she really was a "Master Manipulator" and I was getting played, and she does not want to admit the truth now about her behavior then. But what would be her motivation? What does she have to gain/lose by not telling me the truth about this situation? She freely admitted to being a serial adulterer while we were virtually divorced and gave me all the facts about persons/places/activities/behaviors etc. She even came clean about a sightseeing trip to NYC with OM3. So why lie about this one? 

Was she trying to make him jealous? Make me jealous? Did she want a threesome? Or is the fog so penetrating that normal people engage in decisions/activities that looking back seem pretty weird/dumb? Was it because I was still around and she was trying to hide him in plain sight, so that I wouldn't suspect him? Was it because it would make her look so bad (by manipulating 2 men with her control scheme) that even today I would say her behavior was extreme? IDN. A year earlier she did the same thing with OM1, inviting the 3 of us to lunch and told me that he and I were a lot alike and should become friends. I remember talking to OM1 and neither of us liked that idea very much and we never met up again.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJ

Your first paragraph is exactly what you should be asking her. It is apparent that with this OM she clearly was making you a cuckold. I'm sorry MAJ, I hate that word, and I'm not calling you one, but it is clear she set out to do that to you. My wife admitted her affair after two and a half years. We were in MC for five months when she confessed. Why lie through five months of MC? What was her motivation? What was said that made her confess? Why?

Because of what her betrayal really was, and what would my reaction to that betrayal be? Sometimes the WS admits to some truths but holds a little back, the little that when added to the truths is too much for you. I'm not a WS so trying to answer these things is pure speculation on my part. But my wife confessed because she had nothing left to lose. Does your wife have anything left to lose? 

MAJ, I have respect for you, what you both are trying to do is incredibly difficult. But if you want to reconcile that's what I will support, it's your decision and your life. I just hope you get to hear the truth from your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Keep in mind that during the time she was suggesting that we all hang out and I become friends with the OM, I had no idea that they were romantically involved. So perhaps she thought that at some point it would slip out and somebody would have to react, thus resolving the "2 man" problem and bringing closure to the A. OM was married and I also was invited to their house for a New Year's Eve party with OM, OMW, W, myself and others. OM had to be involved in the decision to invite me, if anything to keep up appearances with his W, in case she was getting suspicious.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Be smart said:


> Dont forget this one. Two months ago he find pictures and letters from OM.
> His wife told him she was clean with it.No more memories about OM.
> Also his wife was so ANGRY with him because he find about them.
> 
> ...


*Yeah! Methinks whatever it was that she was busy "showing him" over at his abode definitely required the removal of her blouse and brassiere as well as the subsequent lowering of her "Victoria Secrets!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unless when the cheater is in the lovely pink fog they really DO think that you will just so love their AP!

That really was how my wife thought. Bizarre but that was it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Do you really need to put up with this? Is she the last girl in the world? If you never had met her, would you be in another relationship? Just my 2 cents!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

MAJ - my humble opinion, based on what little I know - which is that:

- she is an admitted serial cheater
- she is an admitted liar
- she kept photos of OM
- she was angry and accusatory when you found them
- she started a fling of some sort with the neighbor AFTER all admissions and starting R

So I think she REMAINS the first 2.

I believe she gets a sexual thrill from:
- cruelty 
- and gas lighting you and having her affair partners right under your nose
- having sex with many others then either denying you sex OR having "sloppy seconds" with you knowing what she knows
- making you question yourself and the power it gives
- denying you sex at various points while letting someone else dominate her - withholding sex from you is probably very thrilling

I believe these undercurrents exist. I believe she will NEVER admit them because - how can she? It's way to harsh to say out loud "I love you but get my real thrill from cuckolding you"

I am no shrink... but there might be ways to subtly get at this. Maybe through cuckold porn somehow... either let her see you are looking at it and see it she doesn't say anything but is more sexually excited? Maybe show her a variety of porn and throw some of that in and see what happens? Maybe ask her to role play - but you and she are cuckolding her BF and she is someone at work (I've done this it's hot  ). Anyone else have ideas on how to bring this out? The point is you will never find out unless:

- she slips up like I suggest above and you notice her reaction
- she confided in someone and you find out somehow
- she thinks it's safe to let it trickle out a little at a time because she thinks it turns you on too

I could be wrong, but this us how it adds up to me. In any event it's no way to live.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Dont forget this one. Two months ago he find pictures and letters from OM.
> His wife told him she was clean with it.No more memories about OM.
> Also his wife was so ANGRY with him because he find about them.
> 
> ...


She was not angry, and she immediately suggested I destroy them. And her explanation made since as to how they were missed during the purge many years ago.

I think you guys are confusing her behavior in the past with now. If anything, the more I discover of how deeply negative her behavior was back then, the more I appreciate her sincere remorse and current very positive behavior now. And her willingness to be honest about her thoughts and motivations is both supportive of my understanding of what happened and offers insight to the readers of TAM into what occurs in the mind of a WS.
Do I trust her completely? No, and I don't think I ever will based on what I know she is capable of. But I now know what warning signs to look for and what conditions may contribute to M problems. I also check up on her from time to time (phone, social media, acquaintances, etc) and have found nothing since we R in 2006.
Let's not forget that I was not perfect either so she also has to be trusting of me.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> MAJ - my humble opinion, based on what little I know - which is that:
> 
> - she is an admitted serial cheater
> - she is an admitted liar
> ...


No neighbor fling, where do you guys get this crap?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry if I got that wrong.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Wow Rubicon, where to start with you and your comments that have nothing to do with the thread title. I guess I could summarize with this one question: Do you believe that the only way to end infidelity is to D? I suspect that you are in one of two categories:
> 1 a former spouse who quickly played the nuclear option and D before you even knew what was going on or was capable of determining if it could be repaired, and now you are jealous of others who did
> 2 someone who has never had to deal with infidelity in marriage and rattles off his untested opinion to "dump your spouse" at the first sign of trouble because either your ego can't handle it or you are to stupid to figure out what happened
> 
> ...


A polished turd is still a turd..

Rubicon was out of line calling you a cuckold but he has a point. You decide on the outcome and frame your logic around it even if it does not make any sense. This is not healthy behavior but of course you will justify it.




> This post has intrigued me with the response from your wife. I imagine your wife spoke badly of you to OM, OM then says he wants to confirm this is really the case and an outing is planned. Then your wife tells you that the reason he left after fifteen minutes is because you both looked happily in love. To say I have concerns would be putting this very mildly, I'm actually very concerned about what I see here. Did the affair end quickly after this night of karaoke? If not then what was the real intention of setting this night up?


driftingon is spot on. She is telling you what she think you want to hear. What utter tripe!! He saw that you two were in love and left ? Don;t you see the setup ? You two are soulmates!!


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Drifting On, unlike Rubicon, you make some very valid points that require further analysis and discussion. I remember a few months ago, when the true nature of this relationship with this particular OM came to light, specifically asking my W about the 5-6 times I was invited to hang out with her and this OM. Based on this thread topic, I asked her again this afternoon to clarify some questions:
> 
> *Who's idea was this to invite me to hangout with you two:* His
> *Did you question his motives as to why:* Yes, because I thought it was a bad idea, but he was insistent to see what kind of husband you were and if you treated me poorly
> ...




:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


Can't take it anymore. I am not a masochist!!!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> No neighbor fling, where do you guys get this crap?


Someone made an error, but why so incredulous? Not like it changes much of anything anyways based on your prior revelations.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJ

I don't think I've inaccurately stated points in the cheating within your marriage. What I have said is that your wife had to have control and that this was taken to the extreme. When you argued about her leaning into the truck was the perfect moment to end her control. You could have kicked her out of your shared room. You should have challenged her like you were at war. 

MAJ, my concern is that she was basically humiliating you, it wasn't about an affair, but more destroying you to nothing. The question here, why? What purpose would destroying you be beneficial to her? Think about this MAJ, she risked everything that night to the point you caught them. Had a lovers quarrel right in front of you. Why risk so much? It just might be that you have more questions now then before. But you need to ask why she did things and what she gained from them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Good questions. She used to be very jealous and thought I was cheating as well, so maybe this was her way of getting back at me for compromising her feelings. She also said I was uncaring after I told her she could cheat while I was gone, and this was her way of reprisal. But not once did she ever tell me directly that she was in a physical relationship, which really would have hurt me (if that was her intent). 
On the flip side she needed me to continue to support her and the family by providing for the house, cars, food, medical, etc. She couldn't go live with the OM and he could not support her to a level she was accustomed to.
Life is not ever black and white but varying shades of gray. She was cake eating: with me to provide for her lifestyle from afar and OM to provide for her physical/emotional needs in person, and then go home. But that arrangement was impacted when I was home for a few months. OM couldn't just pop over whenever he wanted, unless we had become "friends", and then he would have a reason to come over.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Good questions. She used to be very jealous and thought I was cheating as well, so maybe this was her way of getting back at me for compromising her feelings. She also said I was uncaring after I told her she could cheat while I was gone, and this was her way of reprisal. But not once did she ever tell me directly that she was in a physical relationship, which really would have hurt me (if that was her intent).
> On the flip side she needed me to continue to support her and the family by providing for the house, cars, food, medical, etc. She couldn't go live with the OM and he could not support her to a level she was accustomed to.
> Life is not ever black and white but varying shades of gray. She was cake eating: with me to provide for her lifestyle from afar and OM to provide for her physical/emotional needs in person, and then go home. But that arrangement was impacted when I was home for a few months. OM couldn't just pop over whenever he wanted, unless we had become "friends", and then he would have a reason to come over.




MAJ

Even if you and OM were friends, popping over at three am for a booty call would make you suspicious. I believe her answers to be continued lies, she doesn't want to tell you the excitement she got when you and OM were together. Or she can't tell you as she is afraid it will destroy you. I hate the position you are in as I fear this was every attempt to break you and humiliate you. Pure manipulation to be so very cruel to you. I'm beginning to question whether OM was really the one to suggest being friends. Why would OM want to see what kind of marriage the affair partner has? 

In fact MAJ you could even spin that around back to your wife. What if OM got upset and left because he felt that your wife's idea to meet, was to then rub his nose in dirt by being lovey with you? Maybe OM upset your wife and this was her retaliation? Certainly worked as he left after fifteen minutes. Then OM goes to the parking lot and calls your wife. They have a heated discussion on the phone, then she goes outside to OM's truck to "make up". She leans into the truck for a cigarette to give some make up kisses or maybe more. 

This is why I say your wife is lying, there is something huge you haven't discovered yet. Is your wife revengeful? If someone does something to her does she retaliate? Think about someone wronging her, how did she react?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

During my wife's affairs she introduced me to one of the guys, I brought her Chinese take-out while she worked nights at a large insurance company, then she pulled me over to this tall drink of water and introduced us, he was clearly uncomfortable, and after that she would bring him up in conversation, usually calling his hair stupid or some other thing alluding to him not being attractive. These events got me suspicious and I later found out she was fvcking him after he inadvertently called my house at 3:00 AM and hung up.

It was very odd, no idea why she wanted me to meet her affair partner, maybe it was a dare, maybe so they could both have a chuckle at my expense, who knows? She was so crazy at that point I don't try to rationalize anything she did anymore.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I think when the ladies are deep in the fog, they do irrational things, because they are not thinking straight. By inviting both of us, she could have been risking losing both of us if we figured out she was playing us both for fools.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I think when the ladies are deep in the fog, they do irrational things, because they are not thinking straight. By inviting both of us, *she could have been risking losing both of us if we figured out she was playing us both for fools.*


OR, she was playing the odds. She had a pretty good idea that you wouldn't leave her over it.

After anything/everything she had already done up to that night, you hadn't left yet. It's now become the norm'.

She knew well of her chances, placed the bet and still hasn't had to pay the dealer.

When you're on a roll, keep on rollin'...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> OR, she was playing the odds. She had a pretty good idea that you wouldn't leave her over it.
> 
> After anything/everything she had already done up to that night, you hadn't left yet. It's now become the norm'.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I suppose I will never know the truth about why I was invited to hang out with the OM. Was it her idea? His? Were they fighting about whether she was really gonna divorce me or was she just stringing the OM along? The TAM faithful have really opened my eyes to all possibilities. It was 12 years ago and I am just as confused. Some other points to consider:
1 Earlier, during a negotiated agreement, I gave her permission to cheat (although it was only supposed to be during my extended absences). So why would she need to hide her activities? Was it because she couldn't stop during my return and wanted us to become good friends and share her in a weird sort of way?
2 Did she tell him we were getting divorced, and that I was uncaring (as evidenced by giving her permission to cheat), and he wanted to see for himself because he didn't believe her?
3 I was providing for both all necessary expenses in her life (house, cars, clothes, food, etc) and all discretionary expenses as my income was 5x greater than her part time salary and that was the way we wanted it before I left. That arrangement was fine as long as she was doing what I wanted. But she knew that any deviations from that and I would cut her off. She then began working full time as a way to prevent losing access to resources.
4 This was the first time in our marriage where she was alone to handle all of the household responsibilities, and I believe she gained a great deal of independence. I believe that impacted her thinking when combined with earning a fulltime salary (her calculations were way off, she was never good at math). Basically she identified that she only needed me for physical/emotional needs, and that OM could do that better, as it was new, exciting, and didn't include the burden of household responsibilities for him.
5 As confirmed by 3 sources (including OM's wife), a very telling incident occurred the day before my return from the first (of many) long absence. OM called my W in a rage, telling her he wanted them to run off together that night. When she refused, he became suicidal, threatened to kill himself, her, his wife, the kids, etc. He just couldn't understand why, after about a year of a relationship with my W, she wouldn't go with him. He cried, screamed, threatened, etc. It was a few weeks after this incident when I was first invited to go out with them together. Was he still mad about being deceived and wanted to try to ruin her marriage, but he couldn't handle it when the time came? Or was the sex so good (and I have every indication that it was) that he would put up with any behavior in order to keep getting it? Including being lied to?

Based on the information I have relayed, I would love to hear the opinions of the TAM forum members.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> As confirmed by 3 sources (including OM's wife), a very telling incident occurred the day before my return from the first (of many) long absence. OM called my W in a rage, telling her he wanted them to run off together that night. When she refused, he became suicidal, threatened to kill himself, her, his wife, the kids, etc. He just couldn't understand why, after about a year of a relationship with my W, she wouldn't go with him. He cried, screamed, threatened, etc. It was a few weeks after this incident when I was first invited to go out with them together. Was he still mad about being deceived and wanted to try to ruin her marriage, but he couldn't handle it when the time came? Or was the sex so good (and I have every indication that it was) that he would put up with any behavior in order to keep getting it? Including being lied to?
> 
> Based on the information I have relayed, I would love to hear the opinions of the TAM forum members.


Hmm.

Well, first, if this incident from 12 years ago still bothers you enough to be dwelling on it now, I'd suggest professional help, not strangers on the internet.

It may have been driven by a need for comparison. Maybe the OM wanted your wife to see you and him side by side so she could see how much better he was than you. Maybe your wife wanted the OM to be able to see you and her together and understand why she wasn't leaving you, no matter how much fun OM was.

But I think it was driven by your wife's cowardice. She knew the rules were that she got her OM only while you were away. When your return was imminent, she told the OM he was going on the back burner, and he didn't like it, reacting very poorly because he expected she would choose him. This probably frightened your wife, and the get-together was intended for the OM to see that he had to go, now that her husband was back. Perhaps you were even supposed to be confrontational with him. Your presence was to drive OM away because her words had not succeeded.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You have a messed up marriage. I don't believe your wife is still being completely honest with you, and I would not be surprised if she doesn't cheat again at a later date - or at least blur boundaries with her relationships with other guys.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I guess only time will tell. Almost 10 yrs so far since R, and 6 months since full confession.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> I guess only time will tell. Almost 10 yrs so far since R, and 6 months since full confession.


9.5 years of false R. The last 6 months may or may not be real R.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thor said:


> 9.5 years of false R. The last 6 months may or may not be real R.


Maj I get it she will get half after 20 years I wish you nothing but the best.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

tom67 said:


> Maj I get it she will get half after 20 years I wish you nothing but the best.


Half of what?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She loved OM or had a strong liking for him

And she thought you would like him, too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Just when I thought I was out.....these pull me back in!

Two comments:

1) I think when someone introduces their spouse to their AP, it's a way to privately shove it in their face. Inside, they are giggling.
2) MAJDEATH's wife has the best marriage ever! She can go around banging other people, or kiss/tease, flirt, and act totally single, ALL WHILE MARRIED! Must be amazing to get to do that with no fear of your husband leaving you.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> 1) I think when someone introduces their spouse to their AP, it's a way to privately shove it in their face. Inside, they are giggling.
> 2) MAJDEATH's wife has the best marriage ever! She can go around banging other people, or kiss/tease, flirt, and act totally single, ALL WHILE MARRIED! Must be amazing to get to do that with no fear of your husband leaving you.


Don't forget the possibility of having sex with him, just hours after having done the same with an OM.

Or kissing him, just hours after... Well, you know.

Given what his WS has done in front of him and he basically took it, I think either, or both are a distinct possibility.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I still see your wife as a master manipulator. She was risking so much to introduce you both under the premise that you could be friends. I have no doubt your wife is with you because you make more money. I think you believe this too major, or you wouldn't have stated that you make so much more. I understand your wife is successful in her own right, but she is a gold digger too. 

You say you've been in reconciliation for ten years. I'm afraid not major, you are in reconciliation after you have gotten the truth. That was six months ago, well supposedly the truth. I don't believe you have the full truth yet, nor will you ever get it. It makes me sick that your wife introduced you, that she went along with OM's idea to meet, but I think it was her plan. I think she wanted to humiliate you the most she could. And then to have a lovers spat? Well that just takes the cake doesn't it? Until she admits leaning into the OM's truck for a kiss and not a cigarette is very telling. She had no care in the world for you, it was all about her deranged plan to humiliate you and for her to feel superior. Can you imagine the high she must have felt leaning into his truck, kissing and groping him with you inside none the wiser? 

I'm sorry to say this major, but your wife is one sick person and she knows it. All I can say is when will you know it? My wife and her OM wanted me to be friends with OM also. I talked about this to my wife and told her how psychotic she is for thinking we could be friends. All she can do now is hang her head and apologize profusely, she can't change any of what she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Would it make a difference to know that after that incident, combined with other known factors, led me to file for D?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I've said it all along. This is so messed up.

And to answer your question MAJ, no it really wouldn't matter. Because you're still married to her.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I guess you are one of those types who believe humans are incapable of change.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I guess you are one of those types who believe humans are incapable of change.




Major,

No, humans are capable of change, I'm proof of that, but may I ask why you didn't go through with the divorce? Also you mention you have been reconciled for ten years, how, when she only confessed six months ago with the details? This should have been done ten years ago. I'm not trying to be rude, but your wife in my opinion had some very cruel intentions towards you. What made her change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Major,
> 
> No, humans are capable of change, I'm proof of that, but may I ask why you didn't go through with the divorce? Also you mention you have been reconciled for ten years, how, when she only confessed six months ago with the details? This should have been done ten years ago. I'm not trying to be rude, but *your wife in my opinion had some very cruel intentions towards you.* What made her change?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't say that. I would say that she has self preservation instincts that have kept her tongue from wagging all these years. I questions whether she didn't have an excursion or 2 during this R.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I asked her again this morning about this subject. The OM was suffering from a lack of her attention after I came back. Every time he contacted her to meet up, he always got the "I already have plans with my hubby". So he acquiesced to "just bring him along, it will be fun". She indicated that OM believed that I would treat her like a jerk in front of him, and he would use the opportunity to counsel me on how to treat her right. Except when the event actually happened, we got along great and had fun, and that caused the OM to freak out and leave, probably because of jealousy.

Who knows what goes through the minds of cheaters, other than simply meeting their immediate needs. I'm glad she is not like that anymore.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I asked her again this morning about this subject. The OM was suffering from a lack of her attention after I came back. Every time he contacted her to meet up, he always got the "I already have plans with my hubby". So he acquiesced to "just bring him along, it will be fun". She indicated that OM believed that I would treat her like a jerk in front of him, *and he would use the opportunity to counsel me on how to treat her right*. Except when the event actually happened, we got along great and had fun, and that caused the OM to freak out and leave, probably because of jealousy.
> 
> Who knows what goes through the minds of cheaters, other than simply meeting their immediate needs. I'm glad she is not like that anymore.


:wtf:

I am.........speechless. Sorry, but if OM tried that (mind you, I would have dumped her a long time ago) he would require immediate emergency medical attention.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> I asked her again this morning about this subject. The OM was suffering from a lack of her attention after I came back. Every time he contacted her to meet up, he always got the "I already have plans with my hubby". So he acquiesced to "just bring him along, it will be fun". She indicated that OM believed that I would treat her like a jerk in front of him, and he would use the opportunity to counsel me on how to treat her right. *Except when the event actually happened, we got along great and had fun, and that caused the OM to freak out and leave, probably because of jealousy.*
> 
> Who knows what goes through the minds of cheaters, other than simply meeting their immediate needs. I'm glad she is not like that anymore.


Or because he realised your wife had played him for a fool? :scratchhead:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJ is the person who you are in IC with an associate of your wife?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> MJ is the person who you are in IC with an associate of your wife?


No, not at all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> No, not at all.


OK I read a post somewhere where the guys wife was a counselor and she had an affair with another counselor in her office. The BS decided to cover for her. Is this you?

So what does she say she got out of this? I see why he wanted to meet you but why did she want you to me him?


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

sokillme said:


> So what does she say she got out of this? I see why he wanted to meet you but why did she want you to me him?


In some cases it's done for cake eating and rarely are the men driving the idea. I've had a couple of friends whos wives were cheating or in the initial stages of a full blown affair. It's seems the wayward tries to bargain with themselves that if the two people get along that they might be able to "keep" both. So they want them to meet and hopefully become friends, then broach the subject of having "the best of both worlds". 

If it does happen it's usually before the emotional attachment is fully disconnected with the bs. If by some chance the OM initiated the idea which I find doubtful it was probably only to size up the competition and the whole counseling on how to treat her right line is nonsense to me. I'd have started laughing had I heard that one.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> OK I read a post somewhere where the guys wife was a counselor and she had an affair with another counselor in her office. The BS decided to cover for her. Is this you?
> 
> So what does she say she got out of this? I see why he wanted to meet you but why did she want you to me him?


Not me, but I remember reading that one.

My W indicated (at the time) that she thought we could be friends, because we were so alike and had similar interests. She was right about similar interests


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

sokillme said:


> So what does she say she got out of this?


Have you ever watched the three stooges. The third guy didn't show up. 
The only thing I can figure about Major's wife is that she is an extraterrestrial conducting a study on earth men and why common sense goes out the window when involved with an earth woman. Her theory is that their brain power is somehow transferred from their heads to their pubic region.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> OK I read a post somewhere where the guys wife was a counselor and she had an affair with another counselor in her office. The BS decided to cover for her. Is this you?
> 
> So what does she say she got out of this? I see why he wanted to meet you but why did she want you to me him?


I think i know who you are thinking of but it's not them. They both used to post here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Or because he realised your wife had played him for a fool? :scratchhead:


This reason is probably the closest to the truth I have heard. I think OM realized at that moment he was in competition for plan C, and he wasn't prepared for that reality.

He realized that she was using him as a "pinch-hitter" until I returned. And that he wasn't the only OM.


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