# Rules for reconciliation?



## HorseShowMom

Last night H and I had a long, honest discussion. We’ve been avoiding addressing the core issues in our marriage and it was a long time coming. He’s tentatively agreed to marriage counseling, and wants to get help for his drinking problem and learn to reciprocate and help care for me and the kids when I need him. 
I’m hesitant to make any specific “demands” or mention a timeline, boundaries or ultimatums to him. I don’t want to be unfair or create any more distance between us. 
However, because of the years of neglect and abuse within our relationship, I’m not really sure how to go about being more assertive about my needs or expectations. I’m afraid if I’m too “easy” on him, there won’t be any improvement and I’ll ultimately have to leave to protect myself and our kids. If I’m too demanding, I’m afraid he’ll get discouraged and stop trying. 
Any advice?


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## HorseShowMom

I should also add that I don’t want to punish him or make him upset by withholding sex, but he’s got a habit of being too aggressive and there have been a number of fairly ugly rape incidents when he’s been drinking. In one hand, I want to please him and try to make him happy. On the other hand, I’m having a hard time coping with some of the incidents and am having a hard time wanting to be intimate. I’m sure it’s normal to be a bit standoffish given the situation, but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me when he’s finally agreed to make an effort. What would be the best way to handle this? My gut says I should suck it up- just be a good girl and give him what he wants. But at the same time, I don’t really see things improving if I don’t take some kind of stand. Ugh... the anxiety is killing me.


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## jlg07

HorseShowMom said:


> I should also add that I don’t want to punish him or make him upset by withholding sex, but he’s got a habit of being too aggressive and there have been a number of fairly ugly rape incidents when he’s been drinking. In one hand, I want to please him and try to make him happy. On the other hand, I’m having a hard time coping with some of the incidents and am having a hard time wanting to be intimate. I’m sure it’s normal to be a bit standoffish given the situation, but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me when he’s finally agreed to make an effort. What would be the best way to handle this? My gut says I should suck it up- just be a good girl and give him what he wants. But at the same time, I don’t really see things improving if I don’t take some kind of stand. Ugh... the anxiety is killing me.


So, ONE rule -- you WILL NOT have sex with him if he's had even ONE drink (of ANY type of alcohol)-- PERIOD. You should not have to put up with that crap EVER.


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## Marduk

HorseShowMom said:


> Last night H and I had a long, honest discussion. We’ve been avoiding addressing the core issues in our marriage and it was a long time coming. He’s tentatively agreed to marriage counseling, and wants to get help for his drinking problem and learn to reciprocate and help care for me and the kids when I need him.
> I’m hesitant to make any specific “demands” or mention a timeline, boundaries or ultimatums to him. I don’t want to be unfair or create any more distance between us.
> However, because of the years of neglect and abuse within our relationship, I’m not really sure how to go about being more assertive about my needs or expectations. I’m afraid if I’m too “easy” on him, there won’t be any improvement and I’ll ultimately have to leave to protect myself and our kids. If I’m too demanding, I’m afraid he’ll get discouraged and stop trying.
> Any advice?


My first advice is to stop worrying about him getting discouraged or not trying. That’s his problem. 

Focus on your problems and how he contributes to them. For example, your problem might not actually be his neglect. It might be that you feel lonely and unfulfilled. How he contributes to those feelings is by ignoring you, or having a drinking problem, etc. The point is to frame your problems clearly without jumping to what he needs to do to fix them because that’s his job to figure out. 

As for boundaries, be clear, be simple, and be direct. 

“Husband, I will no longer tolerate being around you when you’ve been drinking” or whatever. Be clear what you will tolerate in your life, with or without him in it.

You own your stuff. He owns his stuff. Don’t try to own or help him with his stuff. That’s on him.


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## EleGirl

There are two books that I think will help you quite a bit. They are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order. The idea is the first identify and stop the love busters (like his alcoholism and anger). Once you both have done this you can identify you needs and start working to meet each other's needs. Read the books yourself first because you will learn a lot. Then see if you can get him to read the books with you and do the work together that the books suggest.


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## Marduk

HorseShowMom said:


> I should also add that I don’t want to punish him or make him upset by withholding sex, but he’s got a habit of being too aggressive and there have been a number of fairly ugly rape incidents when he’s been drinking. In one hand, I want to please him and try to make him happy. On the other hand, I’m having a hard time coping with some of the incidents and am having a hard time wanting to be intimate. I’m sure it’s normal to be a bit standoffish given the situation, but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me when he’s finally agreed to make an effort. What would be the best way to handle this? My gut says I should suck it up- just be a good girl and give him what he wants. But at the same time, I don’t really see things improving if I don’t take some kind of stand. Ugh... the anxiety is killing me.


I change my advice. 

You need to leave. Today.


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## Openminded

I normally recommend listening to your gut but not in your case. He's an abuser. Being a "good girl" in this is what's made him feel entitled to do as he pleases.


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## HorseShowMom

@EleGirl Thanks for the recommendations. I ordered “Love Busters” and will read it before passing it over to him.


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## 3Xnocharm

HSM, I cannot support any attempt at "saving" this, he is an abuser and you need to get out. I DO hope he gets help and gets himself on a better path, but you need to go.


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## sokillme

HorseShowMom said:


> Last night H and I had a long, honest discussion. We’ve been avoiding addressing the core issues in our marriage and it was a long time coming. He’s tentatively agreed to marriage counseling, and wants to get help for his drinking problem and learn to reciprocate and help care for me and the kids when I need him.
> I’m hesitant to make any specific “demands” or mention a timeline, boundaries or ultimatums to him. I don’t want to be unfair or create any more distance between us.
> However, because of the years of neglect and abuse within our relationship, I’m not really sure how to go about being more assertive about my needs or expectations. I’m afraid if I’m too “easy” on him, there won’t be any improvement and I’ll ultimately have to leave to protect myself and our kids. If I’m too demanding, I’m afraid he’ll get discouraged and stop trying.
> Any advice?


Boundaries are good. Responsibility is good. Requirements are good. 

Your love and devotion are worth something. Remember you are the prize here. Hold him accountable. 

If you feel better you can couch it with, "I want nothing more for us to stay together but this is what I need and I can't wait forever." 

You are not asking for anything unreasonable, this is what any women who is married to him is going to want. Presumably he loves you right? It's not hard for him to start treating you with respect.


Edit:

After reading your second post I have to take this back as well. I can't in good faith say this when you say there have been Rape incidents. You should not be married to someone who rapes you. Not good.


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## sokillme

Does your husband understand the magnitude of how he hurt you?


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## Blondilocks

*"...but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me..."*

This is why you find yourself where you are. You're afraid of your husband (and, for good reason). 

If he does decide to go to marriage counseling, and you start to discuss the rapes he will feel blindsided and betrayed. Then you really will have a reason to be afraid. He won't like being exposed.

You can start by taking sex off the table altogether until he has earned a right to be intimate with you by his new learned behavior. 

I have to be honest; I can not figure out why you want to stay with a man who has repeatedly raped you. I also don't see this man becoming a husband worthy of the title.


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## Diana7

So you are living with an abusive rapist?


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## Tex X

The first thing you need are some strong boundaries, and your short list of ultimate deal breakers. Then you need to be prepared to back them up when they're crossed. Drunken rape should already have been a deal breaker, but if you're going to give it one last try, that would be my ultimate deal breaker. The time line for that is immediately, and if he can't agree to that then you go file for divorce tomorrow. One more time and I'm gone for good.

I also think that you need to still get your ducks in a row in case this thing ends in divorce (I know you don't want to hear that, but most people in your situation would have left long ago). You need to have a clear exit plan that covers all the bases. That way if things do get worse then you are not playing catch up.


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## Diana7

HorseShowMom said:


> @EleGirl Thanks for the recommendations. I ordered “Love Busters” and will read it before passing it over to him.



Would you want your daughter to live with a man who rapes her?


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## HorseShowMom

Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic. 
I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.


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## 3Xnocharm

HorseShowMom said:


> Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
> I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.


Sex against your will is rape. If you dont want it and say no, its rape. If its done out of fear, its rape. Husband or not. 

Leaving him isnt throwing away your life, its finding and reclaiming it.


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## HorseShowMom

@sokillme I don’t think he has any idea how his actions affect me or the children. He has never been capable of empathy, or really considered anyone aside from himself. He is never at fault, and his actions are always framed as reactions to factors outside his control. So his drinking is my fault, my needs are unreasonable, if he’s late to work it’s because I didn’t get him out the door on time, etc. 
My recent research indicates that he may be a bit of a narcissist?


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## Tex X

HorseShowMom said:


> Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
> I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.


He forced himself on you when you didn't consent. Being married or not being married doesn't change the definition of rape. You in your own words on all of your threads have clearly stated that it was rape. Why would you minimize that now? For your own sake please call it like it is. It's your marriage, so you can choose to attempt reconciliation if you want, but you really need to go through this process with eyes wide open. Be honest with yourself about everything that's happened. Anything less and you run the risk of major rug sweeping and letting your husband fall right back in to his old habits.


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## wilson

HorseShowMom said:


> @sokillme I don’t think he has any idea how his actions affect me or the children. He has never been capable of empathy, or really considered anyone aside from himself. He is never at fault, and his actions are always framed as reactions to factors outside his control. So his drinking is my fault, my needs are unreasonable, if he’s late to work it’s because I didn’t get him out the door on time, etc.
> My recent research indicates that he may be a bit of a narcissist?



Be aware that no amount of counselling is going to really help someone like this. I can understand wanting to try to fix things, but realize that it's basically an impossible task. If he doesn't really commit to change and put significant effort into changing himself, it's not going to work. Please, do not accept that it's your responsibility to fix him. Please, do not accept the fault if he doesn't change. He is the one with the problem. He needs to be working the hardest to fix it. You can help him change, but he needs to be the one driving the change within himself.


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## HorseShowMom

@Tex X You’re right. I know you are. I just don’t want to hurt him. I don’t think he means to do it. It wasn’t even that big of a problem until I joined TAM and the behavior was identified as rape. Now I’m having nightmares. I can’t breathe, I’m throwing up a few times a day just thinking about it. I’m hoping he’ll just apologize and stop doing it. Then maybe everything will be okay. 
I’m not really even sure how to talk about it with him, he probably doesn’t remember me crying and begging him to stop. He never mentions me yelling and kicking and hitting him. He just wakes up in the morning and goes on like nothing happened. So maybe he’s just so drunk he’s not even aware of what’s happened?


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## sokillme

HorseShowMom said:


> @sokillme I don’t think he has any idea how his actions affect me or the children. He has never been capable of empathy, or really considered anyone aside from himself. He is never at fault, and his actions are always framed as reactions to factors outside his control. So his drinking is my fault, my needs are unreasonable, if he’s late to work it’s because I didn’t get him out the door on time, etc.
> My recent research indicates that he may be a bit of a narcissist?


After all your post I have to ask you, and I want you to really think about this and answer it at it's most base level. Why are you staying with him? What benefit does his presence in your life have to your life?


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## Blondilocks

Why haven't you ever addressed his behavior with him? For all you know, he's thinking it's a little game you play and you actually like it and he's the man. He can't read your mind and you haven't told him NOT to do it.


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## Tex X

HorseShowMom said:


> @Tex X You’re right. I know you are. I just don’t want to hurt him. I don’t think he means to do it. It wasn’t even that big of a problem until I joined TAM and the behavior was identified as rape. Now I’m having nightmares. I can’t breathe, I’m throwing up a few times a day just thinking about it. I’m hoping he’ll just apologize and stop doing it. Then maybe everything will be okay.
> I’m not really even sure how to talk about it with him, he probably doesn’t remember me crying and begging him to stop. He never mentions me yelling and kicking and hitting him. He just wakes up in the morning and goes on like nothing happened. So maybe he’s just so drunk he’s not even aware of what’s happened?


If a close friend of yours told you everything you've told us on this forum, what would your advice be? Probably run like hell would be my guess. Also, I know that you have been hesitant to disclose everything to your therapist, but in my opinion, you need to do so in your next session. Tell your therapist everything you've told us. Everything. It'll be hard, but you really need to get it all out there.

I know that you're afraid your marriage will end, but I'm sorry to say that after all you've told us, that sounds pretty good to me. I understand you wanting to work things out and hoping that your husband can change. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. But you're not doing either of you a favor by rationalizing his behavior. Time to set the bar high - it has been far too low for far too long. 

Don't feel bad for creating boundaries and giving your husband ultimatums. You need to realize that your emotional and physical well being, happiness, and sense of self worth are extremely important, and that you will just not accept being treated that way ever again.


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## Tex X

One more book I would recommend you add to your reading list is 'Codependent No More' by Melody Beattie.


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## Marduk

HorseShowMom said:


> Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
> I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.


Did he have sex with you without your consent?


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## Marduk

HorseShowMom said:


> @Tex X You’re right. I know you are. I just don’t want to hurt him. I don’t think he means to do it. It wasn’t even that big of a problem until I joined TAM and the behavior was identified as rape. Now I’m having nightmares. I can’t breathe, I’m throwing up a few times a day just thinking about it. I’m hoping he’ll just apologize and stop doing it. Then maybe everything will be okay.
> I’m not really even sure how to talk about it with him, he probably doesn’t remember me crying and begging him to stop. He never mentions me yelling and kicking and hitting him. He just wakes up in the morning and goes on like nothing happened. So maybe he’s just so drunk he’s not even aware of what’s happened?


These are all very common responses to sexual assault. 

They also sound like PTSD to me. 

Please, please, please call your local community sexual assault hotline and get some help. Are you American? If so, there may be a national hotline even, I’ll look and see if there’s a number you can call. 

I’m so very sorry. You need out and you need a helping hand to get some control and agency back in your life.


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## Marduk

Call 800-656-4673 right away if you are American. 

The longer you let this go on, and the longer you wait to get help, the worse the PTSD will get and the harder it will be to recover. 

Please pick up the phone and call. If not that number (RIANN) then another agency. 

https://www.rainn.org/


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## HorseShowMom

There are a thousand reasons why I can’t do it. I’m scared. I’m so sorry. I can’t. It’ll be okay. I know I’m not getting out now. It’s okay. I can work it out. It’ll be okay. It’s not that bad. He doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. An it hasn’t happened in a few weeks. If I don’t say no, it’s not a big deal. I’m so sorry.


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## Marduk

HorseShowMom said:


> There are a thousand reasons why I can’t do it. I’m scared. I’m so sorry. I can’t. It’ll be okay. I know I’m not getting out now. It’s okay. I can work it out. It’ll be okay. It’s not that bad. He doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. An it hasn’t happened in a few weeks. If I don’t say no, it’s not a big deal. I’m so sorry.


You don’t have to do anything you want to do. 

If you call, they can help you. It doesn’t mean police or divorce or anything else - it just means they can help give you tools to minimize your trauma, help you process this, and even just listen. 

It’s just a phone call. Consider hearing them out. It doesn’t mean you’re making a long term decision. No matter what, you’re still in control here.


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## EleGirl

HorseShowMom said:


> @EleGirl Thanks for the recommendations. I ordered “Love Busters” and will read it before passing it over to him.


One of the reasons that I suggest that you read the books first is that you will learn a lot and learn a new vocabulary. Those books will teach you what is reasonable for you to expect in a relationship. I think you need that.


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## EleGirl

HorseShowMom said:


> @Tex X You’re right. I know you are. I just don’t want to hurt him. I don’t think he means to do it.


Have you ever heard this fable?

_"A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature."_​
There are many things, animals and even people in this world that we have to avoid because their very nature is dangerous to us.

You husband is like the scorpion. He does what he does because it's his nature. He has no control over how he behaves. You are the frog who is constantly looking out for him, caring about him. But he's "killing" the both of you and your daughter.

It's not that he does not mean to do it. It's that its who he is.



HorseShowMom said:


> It wasn’t even that big of a problem until I joined TAM and the behavior was identified as rape. Now I’m having nightmares. I can’t breathe, I’m throwing up a few times a day just thinking about it. I’m hoping he’ll just apologize and stop doing it. Then maybe everything will be okay.
> I’m not really even sure how to talk about it with him, he probably doesn’t remember* me crying and begging him to stop. He never mentions me yelling and kicking and hitting him.* He just wakes up in the morning and goes on like nothing happened. So maybe he’s just so drunk he’s not even aware of what’s happened?


If this is what has been going on, it's rape.

Did you get the book about codependency that I suggested in an earlier post to you?

If you are determined to try to make this work, use the books I suggested "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".

Have the talk with him about all the "love busters" he engages in. Watch his reaction. Listen carefully. If he does not make a 100% turn around and stop the "love busters" immediately, you will now that you need to leave him immediately.

This is not something that you should give him weeks/months/years to change. What he's doing is dangerous. That's why it's a crime to rape (force sex).

What culture is he from? There are some old-world type cultures that allow spousal rape. I'm asking because I'm wondering why he thinks this is ok.


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## EleGirl

Tex X said:


> One more book I would recommend you add to your reading list is 'Codependent No More' by Melody Beattie.


:iagree: I posted that to the OP on one of her other threads. I'm quoting this to emphasize to her how important this book is for her.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> Would you want your daughter to live with a man who rapes her?


Victims of abuse often take some time to get to the point that they are able to take the needed actions. One fo the things that get them to that point is knowledge, information and support. 

Just posting and yelling at them that you demand that they do what you think they need to do does little help except to drive the victim away from support (such as TAM).

It would be best if you respond directly to the OP and not attack other posters.


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## Marduk

“The Body Keeps the Score” is also a fantastic resource for helping process trauma.


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## Tilted 1

HSM, Ok try this on for size. He gets on the drug to stop all drinking, and the see's a certified physiologist, 2 times a week and you review with him how his progress is coming along, and if he thinks your going to be in danger. If so leave. But if not and you find you Asshat if a husband, is truly making improvements. Then you can stay. If not this give you the time to get a protection order against him.

And quit being codependent on this ABUSER, they always promise the stars and sun to move on their command. If you stop now you will forever be his kicking board.


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## uhtred

Please find someone, counselor friend, police, someone who you can tell the *whole* story. 

Its easier to talk to people on the web, but we can't really help you. 

If you don't tell your therapist or counselor the whole story they may suggest a completely wrong approach. They may think you have relationship or communication issues. You don't, you have a husband who is a rapist. In other posts you have described being held down and raped while you screamed. If that is anywhere close to true, he does not get a little carried away during sex, he is a violent rapist. 

Even cultures that allow spousal rape generally mean that the woman cannot refuse her husband, not that he has the right to force painful sexual acts on her while she screams in pain. 

Drunkenness is no an excuse. If he got drunk and raped you, that should have been the last drop of alcohol that crossed his lips for the rest of his life. 

I don't know if rape and child abuse are correlated, but given that he has already been verbally abusive to your 5 year old daughter, I do not think its worth taking a chance. 


I know this is extremely difficult, victims of abuse often find it very difficult to leave. Again please find someone local who can help you - and please tell them everything.


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## uhtred

If you read her previous posts she was screaming and trying to get away while he raped her on the floor. 




Blondilocks said:


> Why haven't you ever addressed his behavior with him? For all you know, he's thinking it's a little game you play and you actually like it and he's the man. He can't read your mind and you haven't told him NOT to do it.


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## sokillme

HorseShowMom said:


> There are a thousand reasons why I can’t do it. I’m scared. I’m so sorry. I can’t. It’ll be okay. I know I’m not getting out now. It’s okay. I can work it out. It’ll be okay. It’s not that bad. He doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. An it hasn’t happened in a few weeks. If I don’t say no, it’s not a big deal. I’m so sorry.


My dear please don't apologize. You have nothing to be sorry for. I think we all just don't want you to be hurt anymore. You deserve better. Please take care of yourself. Please ask for help if you need it. 

Understand that most men are not like this just because he treats you this way doesn't mean it's typical or he has any reason to.


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## Blondilocks

uhtred said:


> If you read her previous posts she was screaming and trying to get away while he raped her on the floor.


That happened when he was drunk. She needs to address it with him when he is stone cold sober. 

BTW; I have read her previous posts, thank you.


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## uhtred

You don't see rape as a police matter, not a relationship issue? To me it seems the way to address it is for him to spend the next 10 years in prison. maybe I'll start another thread to discuss the issue in general rather then derail this one. 



Blondilocks said:


> That happened when he was drunk. She needs to address it with him when he is stone cold sober.
> 
> BTW; I have read her previous posts, thank you.


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## Blondilocks

uhtred said:


> You don't see rape as a police matter, not a relationship issue? To me it seems the way to address it is for him to spend the next 10 years in prison. maybe I'll start another thread to discuss the issue in general rather then derail this one.


*"I know I’m not getting out now."*

From post #29.


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## uhtred

Yes, but I feel that I have a moral obligation to try to convince her otherwise. The situation she and her children are in is so horrible. I hope she finds someone IRL who can help her. I worry that any discussion or reconciliation will cause her to think that her situation is in some way normal, or can be worked out. 






Blondilocks said:


> *"I know I’m not getting out now."*
> 
> From post #29.


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## Cynthia

HorseShowMom said:


> Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
> I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.


Oh dear. What you have described in another thread has a name, "rape." He has forced you to have sex with him. That is rape. Rape is not too strong of a word to describe what he does. You are minimizing his abuse. That could ultimately lead to your death, because you are not taking his abuse seriously. This is a big deal. 

Leaving someone who is abusive is not throwing your whole life away. Staying with someone who doesn't value you as a person and thinks that rape is normal might actually be throwing your life away. Rape is a violent act. No less violent than striking you or beating you. If you don't think you are in danger, you are wrong.

I think reading those books is good so you can more clearly see how bad things are. Your marriage is a dangerous place to be. The sooner you wake up to that reality, the better.


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## Marduk

@HorseShowMom I hope you’re doing ok. Getting some sleep, eating, maybe getting outside a bit.


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## turnera

Tex X said:


> He forced himself on you when you didn't consent. Being married or not being married doesn't change the definition of rape. You in your own words on all of your threads have clearly stated that it was rape. Why would you minimize that now?


Because people are now expecting her to leave him. And abuse victims want nothing more than to NOT leave their abusers; it's how they've been conditioned. 

Go back and read your first two posts here. Nothing but 'I don't want to upset him' and 'I will see if he will participate' and 'he has never cared.' And yet you want to stay.

So stay. But start educating yourself. Right now, YOU are the problem because you're accepting the abuse. But that's fine, because the only person you can change is yourself.

There are a ton of places to get help - I would start with Al-Anon and with reading the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry And Controlling Men.


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## Cynthia

turnera said:


> Because people are now expecting her to leave him. And abuse victims want nothing more than to NOT leave their abusers; it's how they've been conditioned.
> 
> Go back and read your first two posts here. Nothing but 'I don't want to upset him' and 'I will see if he will participate' and 'he has never cared.' And yet you want to stay.
> 
> So stay. But start educating yourself. Right now, YOU are the problem because you're accepting the abuse. But that's fine, because the only person you can change is yourself.
> 
> There are a ton of places to get help - I would start with Al-Anon and with reading the book Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry And Controlling Men.


She is not the problem. Yes, she plays a huge role in allowing this to continue, but saying she is the problem further shames her and advances the abuser's agenda in her mind. Yes, there are many things she can do to escape this situation, but I think it could be terribly damaging to put blame on her. I don't want to increase a victim mentality, because she needs to find her personal power, but her actions (or inaction) in this situation has a lot to do with how the abuse has corrupted the truth and created all sorts of dysfunction that keeps her in the relationship.

This thread has literally sent chills up my spine and brought tears to my eyes.


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## 3Xnocharm

OP did state in one of her other threads that she went and checked out a women's shelter some days ago. I think she put her name in so they have record of her. So she HAS been taking some steps. I can only imagine how terrified she is a lot of the time. I think she will get there but its going to take time, of course.


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## Cynthia

@HorseShowMom, I'm sorry that this is probably quite overwhelming coming here and getting these matter of fact responses about the terrors in your life, like you should just up and leave when you aren't feeling ready for that. I know for myself that my concern is that your husband is already violent and he could escalate. You are already afraid of making him angry, which isn't hard and happens when you didn't do anything that ought to make him angry. He's an angry man. That isn't your fault. That is something he should be working through, but hasn't even faced yet.

Please keep coming to TAM. Please keep seeking help and learning and growing. Things can be better. 

One thing I ask of you is to please, please tell your therapist about your husband forcing himself on you. You were able to write it out here. I recommend that you print out all of the posts that you've made here and give them to your therapist to read. Have courage. You can do it. Once you have done that, your therapist will be better able to advise you. Right now she is giving you advice based on a situation that isn't accurate and that could cause you harm.


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## Adelais

@HorseShowMom, as you read more here you will see that what your husband is doing to you is wrong. You already know it, and you needed confirmation so you came here.

You will get strength and courage to not tolerate his behavior. He will try harder though, so you need to have a back-up plan.

The women's shelter is a good option.


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## turnera

I'm not trying to shame Mom. I'm saying that she's been taking steps toward knowledge and understanding and that the next step is recognizing she alone has the power to change things. Not him. Because waiting for him to change, hoping he'll change, tiptoeing around to get it 'just right' so he will want to change...is continuing to give him power over herself. As all 3 of my therapists in the past 40 years have told me, you can't change him, you could never change him, the only thing you can change is yourself and how you deal with something that is wrong.

It's taken me a very long time to get to a point where I can make changes and I still cower in my boots when I stand up for myself. I'm hoping, Mom, that you won't do what I did. You will read, learn, get help, and make changes now while you still have a long productive - and happy - life ahead of you.

CAN he change? Yes, but why should he? Think about it.


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## Anastasia6

HorseShowMom said:


> Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
> I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.




Holding your head down and entering your ass without lube while you cry due to pain is NOT a technicality. 

This man has more than just a drinking issue. He is either naturally sadistic or trying to hurt you or addicted to rape porn. It really doesn't matter. This is not a man you should be with.

Last I read you haven't told your therapist about these incidents and she is already worried about your safety and counseling exiting. 

Please, please be honest with your therapist. You are paying for professional advice please listen. Go back to the crisis center tell them more of the truth. 

This seems more like Stockholm syndrome but if you think you want to reconcile. Again be honest with the counselors. See what they think about boundaries and changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

@HorseShowMom, how are you my friend. I know all of this is painful to hear. Hang in there, know that all of us are here to encourage you. You don't have to do anything until you are ready. It's OK to take some time and settle in and think about everything everyone has said.


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## Cynthia

@turnera, I don't think you would try to shame someone. I know you want to help. You are enthusiastic about helping others. It's a good quality to have.

I just want to make sure that @HorseShowMom knows that what is happening to her isn't her fault. She is not asking to be raped or abused. Nothing she could do would make it okay for anyone to force himself on her or abuse her.


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