# I hate this argument.



## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

Alright, so my wife and I haven't been married for too long, about half a year or so. Anyway, we're pretty open about things, and her previous relationship had ended disastrously when someone stole her boyfriend away from her. It was under the guise that this chick's husband was beating up on her, treating her like crap, so my wife and her then boyfriend would give her shelter or an ear from time to time. Long story short, this chick ran off with my wife's ex and they lived happily ever after.

Out of consideration for my wife, especially after we got engaged, I made it a point to "trim the fat" on my friends. There are those childhood friends that never amounted to anything, cheaters, druggies, and when it comes to the girls, I have could've beens, should've beens, and want to have beens. I pretty much cut them all out, out of respect, loyalty, and to never put her in a similar situation. If a friend of mine of the opposite sex were to need help in a similar fashion as before, it'd be a completely platonic friend. I'm very secure in myself, and I've had otherwise attractive friends for 10 years, in which the line has never been crossed, and we treat one another like siblings. I don't get drunk and make mistakes, nor do I put myself in those situations where I would be vulnerable to make one. I don't cheat, anger-**** anyone when I'm mad at my wife, nor play around with her trust, suspicions, or insecurities.

My wife on the other hand, has a group of friends that makes me extremely uncomfortable. She's slipped up once, with a friend, so the trust isn't really there. For the most part, her guy friends are all exes, if they're not beta boys that profess their love to her every time they drink. My wife is the type to get black out drunk when she drinks, so being a very attractive woman, the chance of something bad to happen goes way up. Her girlfriends aren't model citizens, usually barflys that ignore that she is married, and try to get her to come out so she can help bait guys for them. 

Anyway, the argument we had recently was that I had spent some time away, and came back home recently. She lost her phone, and when she found it, she opened to read a text. Close to midnight, she had texted some friend of hers that she was not a toy and bull****. I called her out on it, asking for the context of that message, and she said that he was a married ex of hers that would still hit on her. Joking about being ready to take a shower, and inviting her in. Asking for a massage, and other **** that would piss his wife off if she knew. I told her that I was tired of the fact that she would even entertain that ****, and why she couldn't just make new, decent friends, rather than putting me in the ultra-difficult position of having to accept the guys she used to **** as being her friends. This isn't like some stat where it's like 25% or 40%, but she's literally ****ed *ALL* of her friends.

She turns it around on me by saying that I'm being possessive and don't want her to have any friends, and that's not the point. It's not that ****ing hard, trim the fat. I did it. The girlfriends I can deal with, but the guys that are all exes and beta wannabes are annoying as ****, and I'm halfway tempted to call them out on their ****. 

The other night, I went out on a dinner with a client for work that went to a nearby college I knew from way back when. This chick had a crush on me, and was known to offer herself to seal the deal for a contract. I told my wife about her the night before, I ended up going out with the girl, and sure enough, she tried to kiss me. Then she started sending me texts and nudes, in which I was 100% open with my wife about until I blocked her number. I didn't just recently reveal the fact, I told my wife about it as it was happening.

Equality,respect, and transparency. We said our ****ing vows, but that doesn't mean one should get to bend the rules.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You know this now.. but this should have been settled before you married her. She had all of these friends up to the day she married you and you knew that.

I think that the answer here is that you cannot tell her what to do.

But you can set your own boundaries. Are you willing to tell her that you will not stay in a marriage where you are being disrespected like this?


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> You know this now.. but this should have been settled before you married her. She had all of these friends up to the day she married you and you knew that.
> 
> I think that the answer here is that you cannot tell her what to do.
> 
> But you can set your own boundaries. Are you willing to tell her that you will not stay in a marriage where you are being disrespected like this?


Actually, I didn't know any of this. She was in a relationship for 7 years, and their involvement in her life were only recently made clear to me.

Had I known, I wouldn't be married right now.

She hasn't been particularly open about any of this, since they're not on her Facebook or anything. Just her phone and in the past.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

But are you willing to live with it? It seems pretty clear that she is still going to keep them in her life. She is saying that you're being controlling...which of course, you're not. You're asking her to be respectful of your feelings and she pretty much told you to go to h*ll. 

So, are you willing to tell her that if she doesn't get rid of her ex boyfriends that you're going to move on? 

FYI...I would't even just entertain the idea of telling them where they can shove it...I would do it, and I would show them how.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

This is a no-win situation.

I think you know that, and that your post is mostly to vent - which is definitely welcome and understood.

There's no easy solution to this, because you'll come out on the losing end 99% of the time in these situations. You let her be her, and she'll slip up once, or often. You give her an ultimatum and she won't listen to it and she'll go out and do it on purpose.

Listen, it's possible she's not aware of how this looks to you (and pretty much everybody else) and that she believes she won't slip up, therefore in her mind, there's nothing wrong with it.

It's also just as possible she likes things this way because she gets to be lusted after everywhere she goes. Or she has no intention of remaining faithful to you.

Most likely though, is that she has no more trust for men, including you. What her ex did to her is pretty awful and definitely enough to lose trust in men, or people in general. People who aren't capable of trust are not the ones one looks to marry. Because she doesn't trust men (including you) she's reluctant to let go of her "friends" as they're all plan B (and C, D, E and F). If things go sideways with you, she can run to any one of them at the drop of a hat.

What you did - dropping your dead weight and dangerous friends - is noble, and is what one "should" do when they marry. You clearly know that new boundaries need to be created with a marriage, so you know what SHE should have done, or be open to doing.

But you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The only thing you can do is speak to her openly and honestly about what boundaries are expected in a marriage and hope she gets it.

If she doesn't... run.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long did you date her?

How long have you been married?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

too soon in the marriage for this. A has good points about A,B,C,D, but wrong in the damn if you do and don't.

You may love her, but you are NOT damned if you D her butt.
You would be saving yourself years of heartache. 

Blackout drunk, with skank friends do not a good marriage make.
Especially when you have ex's asking for poontang she keeps as friends.

I would be more worried about the "controlling" comment.
Standard cheaters script my friend. She may be crossing the line already, and don't won't you restricting future crossing if out with skank friends.

Your solution is very simple. 
Jettison the ex's and skanks friends, if she wants to remain married.

With a 100% hit rate, a blackout, and barflys, come on man !!

Save yourself the trouble. WALK.

Sorry you here.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

ravens667, welcome to TAM!

So you've only been married for a few months, and you're finding out all kinds of unpleasant things about your partner. 

Looking at it from the outside, I have a few observations.

1) A person with a decent moral code who found themselves divorced because their spouse cheated (this being the situation your partner is in) would want to establish boundaries going forward to prevent something like this from occurring again.

2) From your post, it seems like you took a pro-active stance and set these type of boundaries on your own. Your wife didn't ask for them, and doesn't apparently appreciate them or reciprocate them.

3) Your wife "slipped up once" with a friend.

4) You're still there, married to her, and putting up with this treatment.

5) When one is going to disparage his wife's ex-boyfriends who are current friends that she flirts with regularly that still want to sleep with her as being "beta boys," one should look hard in the mirror and make sure that one is not behaving like a beta himself.

6) And after you're done looking in the mirror, go read up on "alpha male" behavior, paying special attention to the part where they tolerate their women hanging around other men, especially men their woman has had sex with previously.

7) You describe yourself as really secure. You have (or used to have) attractive female friends whom you never slept with over the years. Because you are a NICE GUY! 

Sorry, that last wasn't actually the point I wanted to make with respect to you being "secure."

If you're so "secure," it seems like you wouldn't have felt the need to trim your friends list- you didn't cheat on the woman you have married, put up on a pedestal, and gotten a sever case of "one-itis" about.

It would have been a reasonable thing to do if your wife was ready to do the same thing, AND she was feeling insecure about your friends.

Instead, you said to yourself, "I love her so much that I'm going to drop some of my friends that aren't as pure and wholesome as my wife might conceivably like, so that she will just love and admire and respect me for my sacrifice!"

You are definitely a NICE GUY.

I recommend that you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy," and read the parts about Covert Contracts twice.

Given your wife's penchant for getting blackout drunk around ex-boyfriends, I think you should take another "proactive step" and read up on Surviving an Affair. There is an excellent chance that that knowledge will come in handy in the future.

1B) (Go back and read point 1 above, this tags onto that one). How do you know that your wife's tale of woe is true? Have some other people confirmed that her husband ditched her for another woman after a few years? Like I said, her lack of interest in taking concrete steps to prevent a similar situation from developing is very unusual.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Ok. are you a KISA or Captain Save'a'*o? You are strait laced, controlled, Mr. Honest and you marry a woman who keeps a stable of Exbf's who drunkenly confess their love for her? Some chick send you nudes and you tell your wife?

This sounds so messed up, I don't know where to start. 

Both you and your wife have boundary issues. This chick didn't just out of the blue try to drunkenly kiss you and then soberly send you nudes. That story sounds good, but makes no sense. I've been there enough to know you said or did stuff to allow that to happen BEFORE booze took over. Reason being is that after booze was gone, nude texts followed. There is much more to that story. Your wife with the drinking problem and enablers and sycophants also has issues.

Both of you need interventions and treatment. Sorry to call BS, but I've done the dance you're doing, so I recognize the steps. I've also seen wives like yours. You guys are heading for disaster unless you both own your own sh#t.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Married six months. Already "slipped up once". A cabal of guys that beta orbit her who have all f--ked her.

Any kids? Own a house together? A dog?

Get. Away. Now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

PS Why are they all still friends with her? It's not to trade recipes. It's because she's an easy lay.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Married six months. Already "slipped up once". A cabal of guys that beta orbit her who have all f--ked her.
> 
> Any kids? Own a house together? A dog?
> 
> ...


Ugh... Yes.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Watch this movie.
Home | Divorce Corp


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

So many replies, so soon. You guys are awesome!

First off, I really wouldn't describe myself as a nice guy. I've ruined some otherwise good relationships in the past, I've cheated so many times before without remorse on every girlfriend I've had before my wife, and I've hurt people before in some fundamentally evil ways before. I'm not proud of it, but I am open about it. So no, historically I'm not a nice guy, but I figured that if I were to take this marriage seriously, I'd have to change a few things about myself. Otherwise, yeah, I'm squeaky clean on paper. I went to school, have a great job, I'm clean cut, well spoken, and I don't have vices. As far as my wife is concerned, my evil deeds are like Bigfoot: they exist, but no one she knows has seen them.

But yeah, I did have to create some sort of moral code if this were to work. She obviously had some issues, along with a side of bull****, but either way, I bit. If we fought, I'd go for a drive, instead of seeking comfort in some other woman. If she needed space, I'd see a relative for a few days, instead of blowing up her phone or holding a boombox outside her window. But this **** backfired, and she ended up having a moment with a friend (prior to the marriage). So I kept going, and even though I continued the relationship, I lost trust in her and her stupid friends. Her girlfriends can't stand me because they prefer her in her miserable drunken state, instead of being happy that she's found someone that's willing to make her happy. Her guy friends have been up in arms since Day 1, but that's just how most guys are.

Which I guess brings me to the point in that even though I have some ****ish history, I'm pretty decent in other ways. I don't find it cool at all to date rape a chick, which in my book counts as taking advantage of someone that's drunk as hell. At some point, any chance of romance with a friend dies with my, after you spend the night on the couch, smell their vomit from the bathroom, see them without makeup, hear them fart, and otherwise behave extremely candidly with me. I don't know if it's my genetics or what, but although I can get drunk, the things I will do when I'm drunk and only drunk are singing and dancing. So that doesn't mean I will **** a friend, let alone the wildebeest sitting across from me at the bar and claim that "Welp, I was drunk". So in these ways, I guess I'm not like most guys. 

It's not like I made a choice to clean up my act and trim the fat, only to expect the same. But at least some sort of decency to where she's not playing grab ass on the phone with her gross ass friends. As far as the whole beta thing goes, that friend that she slipped up with ended up pissing his pants when I showed up and smashed his phone on the side of his head. My wife apparently never found out about that. But the little annoying ones that never stood a chance, yet are determined to creep while my wife insists that "they're ok" is extremely annoying. She went to an all-girls school growing up, so she's kinda stunted when it comes to how to detect a weird ass guy. I didn't sleep with my friends, but the strategy was that I could sleep with their friends, lol.

As far as the woman I went out with before, I had met her a few times before, in college, and then coincidentally, in the professional world. We've never hung out on a one on one basis prior to that night, and there wasn't an advance made by either one of us, either. But since I was in the power position to accept or decline a deal with her company, she felt it necessary to make a pass at me to seal the deal. Except she did drink, and people pretend to like me when I'm doing business, so that's the story. I mean, yeah, she's a knockout, but I could've easily pursued her instead of my now wife, since they were both available at the same time. 

My problem in the story I just told is that I'm usually myself with everyone. I don't have a business tone of voice, nor do I change the way I act when I have a woman in my crosshairs. I'm always pretty confident, rather fearless, make eye contact, tell jokes, have a way with words, and I don't stumble over my words. I don't care if you're a man, or a woman (regardless of attractiveness). I'm not for everyone, nor do I pretend to be, but if we hit it off, you'll feel like you ended up with a new best friend. Sometimes, but not all the times, people tend to confuse it with flirtation or effort, and will make a pass. Hell, I'm not that damn cute, so I guess it's just a personality thing.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> Anyway, the argument we had recently was that I had spent some time away, and came back home recently.


Were you on business or did you have an argument? 



> She lost her phone, and when she found it, she opened to read a text. Close to midnight, she had texted some friend of hers that she was not a toy and bull****. I called her out on it, asking for the context of that message, and she said that he was a married ex of hers that would still hit on her. Joking about being ready to take a shower, and inviting her in. Asking for a massage, and other **** that would piss his wife off if she knew.


His wife should know, shouldn't she? There's nothing like giving him some consequences for his unacceaptable behaviour. Thing is, it's your wife that should tell her. She needs to actively protect her marriage if she values it. I suspect at this moment in time she'd be unwilling to do that, correct?


> I told her that I was tired of the fact that she would even entertain that ****, and why she couldn't just make new, decent friends, rather than putting me in the ultra-difficult position of having to accept the guys she used to **** as being her friends. This isn't like some stat where it's like 25% or 40%, but she's literally ****ed *ALL* of her friends.


Why are you putting up with this? I wouldn't. You're right that this is an accident waiting to happen, especially when your wife still gets blackout drunk. You really need to put your foot down. Friends can remain friends so long as they are _friends of the marriage_. Each time one of them crosses the line with your now married wife, they have to go. If your wife can't see the wisdom of that position then she's picking her friends over the marriage. Which isn't going to be sustainable long term.



> Equality,respect, and transparency. We said our ****ing vows, but that doesn't mean one should get to bend the rules.


Marriges don't work if you have a different set of rules for each party. This is supposed to be an equal partnership.

I must ask, did you not know the nature of her friends (male and female) before you married her? You get judged on the company you keep. So, the likelihood is she is _exactly_ like them rather than an anomaly.


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

_Were you on business or did you have an argument? _

I was away for business. I travel in bursts, but I've been grounded ever since. 

_His wife should know, shouldn't she? There's nothing like giving him some consequences for his unacceptable behavior. Thing is, it's your wife that should tell her. She needs to actively protect her marriage if she values it. I suspect at this moment in time she'd be unwilling to do that, correct?_

This particular friend of hers is an ex, who my wife swears up and down is happily married. I didn't even know this guy existed until I saw the text message, and I find what he writes inappropriate. My wife quickly goes on the defense, saying that that's how he is, that's how he jokes, and essentially to deal with it. She turns the argument around by saying that I don't allow her to have any friends, which is false. But I'll get on that later in this post.

_Why are you putting up with this? I wouldn't. You're right that this is an accident waiting to happen, especially when your wife still gets blackout drunk. You really need to put your foot down. Friends can remain friends so long as they are friends of the marriage. Each time one of them crosses the line with your now married wife, they have to go. If your wife can't see the wisdom of that position then she's picking her friends over the marriage. Which isn't going to be sustainable long term.
_

I really don't put up with it. She doesn't make arrangements with anyone because of fear, rather than respect. And no, I'm not one of those guys that will knock someone's teeth out for saying hi to my wife, but she tries to put that on me.

She has a really hard time accepting the reality of things, and that's that 1.) She's now married, and 2.) The majority of her friends are exes, drunks, creepers, when they're not part of her past relationship (Facebook bulk). 

I don't know why she chooses that particular company to keep, since many have betrayed her, taken advantage of her, used her, and influenced her to break it off with me. Yet she puts me in the position where I have to accept them, and that's a tough pill to swallow. 

_I must ask, did you not know the nature of her friends (male and female) before you married her? You get judged on the company you keep. So, the likelihood is she is exactly like them rather than an anomaly._

No, I did not know. I met a few of them before, like her roommate (who was otherwise decent, but they had a falling out), and a few others who hated the sight of me from the beginning. She comes from a good family, was raised well, yet her friends just don't fit the picture.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> I was away for business. I travel in bursts, but I've been grounded ever since.


Grounded? How does that work? Will it affect your ability to earn a living? Strange that when she behaves inappropriately - getting drunk with an ex when you're not around - you're the one who faces consequences. 



> This particular friend of hers is an ex, who my wife swears up and down is happily married.


Which raises a few questions... Is this how she behaves when she's 'happily married'? Would it be okay for you to text your exes in the same way? If not, why not? I bet his wife wouldn't approve of his behaviour. Your wife is not ready to accept that exes who try and leverage their prior knowledge of your wife into inappropriate behaviour have to go. You're 100% correct on this point if you want to have a healthy marriage. _Your wife_ has to cut him off permanently if she's serious about being married. And she needs to tell his wife too. That guy's wife ought to know about the POS she's married to.



> I really don't put up with it. She doesn't make arrangements with anyone because of fear, rather than respect. And no, I'm not one of those guys that will knock someone's teeth out for saying hi to my wife, but she tries to put that on me.


I know it's hard to hold firm when you're accused of being controlling, jealous, insecure and 'choosing her friends'. But that's what you have to do.



> She has a really hard time accepting the reality of things, and that's that 1.) *She's now married*, and 2.) The majority of her friends are exes, drunks, creepers, when they're not part of her past relationship (Facebook bulk).


I can see that. Her friends won't change the way they behave around her until she starts to act like a married woman. You need to have boundaries. These are what you are and aren't prepared to accept. It's all about how you want to live your life. You both willingly gave up some freedom when you got married. You should make decisions on what's best for the marriage. If your wife refuses to play ball (and it won't happen in one conversation), you need to think if this is the marriage you want.

Equality, respect and transparency aren't some crazy ideals. They are the foundation of healthy marriages. 

I note you're six months or so into marriage. I'm not sure of the particular laws of where you are but I think you can still get your marriage annulled in the first year. "The marriage or these exes?" How far are you prepared to go to have the marriage you want?


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

_Grounded? How does that work? Will it affect your ability to earn a living? Strange that when she behaves inappropriately - getting drunk with an ex when you're not around - you're the one who faces consequences. 
_
I travel for work sometimes, and being grounded is what it's called when I'm in town indefinitely. It's not a consequence, it's just the way my job goes. Business tends to get slower as the weather gets colder, so I should expect to be home for the remainder of the year. But yes, I have no way of telling what happens when I'm not here.

_Which raises a few questions... Is this how she behaves when she's 'happily married'? Would it be okay for you to text your exes in the same way? If not, why not? I bet his wife wouldn't approve of his behaviour. Your wife is not ready to accept that exes who try and leverage their prior knowledge of your wife into inappropriate behaviour have to go. You're 100% correct on this point if you want to have a healthy marriage. Your wife has to cut him off permanently if she's serious about being married. And she needs to tell his wife too. That guy's wife ought to know about the POS she's married to._

My wife never even bothered to pretend that she was "happily married" for more than a couple of months. We had it out recently, and she made it very public (to her family and friends) that we were having problems. That's when the ex friends come out of the woodwork.

Her excuse to keep people around is that "they dated 10 years ago". So unless she was the biggest **** 10 years ago, the excuse is getting old. I don't feel like it validates that kind of behavior. I have a friend that I used to date and sleep with in high school. There's no tension, no rekindling, and all we talk about is our families. I went out with this ex of mine like 2 years ago, and nothing happened. We had a few drinks, and we did late night grocery shopping as we caught up. It'd be ridiculous of me to try to reignite something after so long, and disrespectful to my friend. 

_I know it's hard to hold firm when you're accused of being controlling, jealous, insecure and 'choosing her friends'. But that's what you have to do._

There just isn't much trust in any way whatsoever. She's a pushover, and lets everyone but me walk all over her. Instead of growing a backbone, standing up for herself, and demand respect, she puts it on me. I brought this up last night, and she tells me that I treat her like a ***** because I'm arguing about the friend who was texting her. My response: He's the one treating you like a *****, since he can't respect the fact that you're married, that he's married, and that his actions (even if joking) are inappropriate. Then she says she can't have friends, and the point, as well as the argument, are entirely lost. I don't feel as if I'm failing to get my point across, but maybe she's that dense.

_I can see that. Her friends won't change the way they behave around her until she starts to act like a married woman. You need to have boundaries. These are what you are and aren't prepared to accept> It's all about how you want to live your life. You both willingly give up some freedom when you got married. You should make decisions on what's best for the marriage. If your wife refuses to play ball (and it won't happen in one conversation), you need to think if this is the marriage you want._

That's sound advice. I just don't think she's going to want to play ball on this one. Her network of friends, when they're not males and ex boyfriends, they're a group of women who have all slept with the same guy. It's so weird. I'm literally getting heat from her circle of friends because I'm clean (on paper), instead of being the turbulent bad boy that keeps them on edge with his mistakes. 

_I note you're six months or so into marriage. I'm not sure of the particular laws of where you are but I think you can still get your marriage annulled in the first year. "The marriage or these exes?" How far are you prepared to go to have the marriage you want?_

The laws here are rather extreme when it comes to annulment, in that I would've had to be drunk, a fraud, or her brother. I just don't think she'd even entertain the idea of giving up her creepy exes. She makes it sound like I have a problem with men, in general. It's not men, it's that she's slept with them. It's weird, and it's impossible for me to just accept the situation, even if it is in the past. Everyone has a history, and that's fine. But it's overlapping into our present, and it's becoming a problem since boundaries are being crossed.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Still, I'd at least talk to a lawyer and see if you can at least get a free consultation about your options as far as annulment/divorce are concerned. Either you missed some pretty big red flags with her before you got married or she pulled a bait and switch. Because your wife does not sound like marriage material (no offense meant).


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

OldWolf57 said:


> too soon in the marriage for this. A has good points about A,B,C,D, but wrong in the damn if you do and don't.
> 
> You may love her, but you are NOT damned if you D her butt.
> You would be saving yourself years of heartache.
> ...


Raven,

Consider this experience the Ghost of Marriage past visiting you, the present would be with children and a severely unhealthy marriage and lifestyle environment built on deceit, mistrust and fear. If you wish to get a glimpse of the future go to the upper right section of this web page window and copy paste this into the search block " Me and my wife have been married for" or " Her Ex" and see the return rate en masse produce several stories, all nearly the same. 

Get out now, before it is too late.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Ya whatever you do at this point do *NOT KNOCK HER UP*.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get both the books linked to below in my signature. They can also be downloaded at amazon.com for quicker results.

Mmslp is a relationship guide for men though not politically correct. Not Just Friends is for you both.

What exactly do you mean "she slipped up"?

Why didn't you tell the guys wife what he said to your wife? You should have also said you were more than willing to give him a "massage". And not he kind he would like.


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

_Still, I'd at least talk to a lawyer and see if you can at least get a free consultation about your options as far as annulment/divorce are concerned. Either you missed some pretty big red flags with her before you got married or she pulled a bait and switch. Because your wife does not sound like marriage material (no offense meant)._

None taken. She's been on the divorce kick for almost the entirety of September, and we can't go a day without her bringing it up. I could leave the toilet seat up at this point, and it's threatened. 

We had a fight a few weeks ago, and her parents swiftly took her to see a lawyer in regards to a divorce. That's a whole different story altogether, but the bottom line is that I have been considering my options. She doesn't have a leg to stand on if she were to proceed, but the gravity of the fights are minor, and the solutions are otherwise easy. She just plays dense.

_What exactly do you mean "she slipped up"?

Why didn't you tell the guys wife what he said to your wife? You should have also said you were more than willing to give him a "massage". And not he kind he would like._

The story of her ****ing up was that we were having an otherwise great month. One day, she goes to hang out with her Future Self, the bitter, much older friend of hers that has been reduced to being a slampiece at the local bars. So FS gets her all pissed off about me, and my wife dumps me over the phone. We were still new at the time, so trying something new in my relationship, I decided to give her space. So with her newfound space, she went out with a friend, and was making out with him all night long. Problem for her is, I'm very well known around here, and I had 5 different people calling me to tell me what was happening. I called her out on it, and confronted the guy. Even though she had dumped me, we were still in a relationship on FB, so that just goes to say how much guys really give a **** in regards to respecting a relationship/engagement/marriage. That may be general to most men, but it's a certain generalization of her friends. 

As far as the most recent guy with the massage and his wife, I didn't even know that guy existed until the other night. He's not on her FB, he was seriously just on her phone. I only know his first name, and the fact that he's married.

My wife has a tactic in which she hides in plain sight, so to speak. My phone has a passlock (it's my birthday), but I have one on because I have all sorts of sensitive work related stuff on it. If she were to ask me to hand it over, I'd gladly unlock it for her to go through it.

Her phone on the other hand, is unlocked at all times, a claim she brings up often when I accuse her of something (usually a late night message). But obviously, she takes advantage of the fact that I don't go through it, because I've believed her until this point. She has **** to hide, but was comfortable with the notion that I wouldn't go through it.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> My wife never even bothered to pretend that she was "happily married" for more than a couple of months. We had it out recently, and she made it very public (to her family and friends) that we were having problems. *That's when the ex friends come out of the woodwork.*


This says so much about the 'friends' she keeps around her. 

You're suposed to be in your honeymoon period. What happens when your marriage faces real, as opposed to self-inflicted, problems. Job loss, miscarriages, death of a parent, etc. What happens when you're away again? What happens when you have another argument? This the future you have to look forward to. Think long and hard about this mate. 



> There just isn't much trust in any way whatsoever. She's a pushover, and lets everyone but me walk all over her.


The first sentence is a bad sign, how will this marriage work long-term? The second, well as her husband you're supposed to have _privileges_, not be treated worse than people she's known longer.



> Instead of growing a backbone, standing up for herself, and demand respect, she puts it on me. I brought this up last night, and she tells me that I treat her like a ***** because I'm arguing about the friend who was texting her. My response: He's the one treating you like a *****, since he can't respect the fact that you're married, that he's married, and that his actions (even if joking) are inappropriate. Then she says she can't have friends, and the point, as well as the argument, are entirely lost. I don't feel as if I'm failing to get my point across, but maybe she's that dense.


There are going to be plenty of things in a marriage where there just isn't a handy compromise solution. This is one of them. You're telling her "Don't play with fire, because not only will you get burnt eventually, this will affect me too". If she can't get her head around the idea that she can't do what ever she pleases anymore, then she's just not suited to marriage. 

Everything you both now do have to be checked against acting in the best interests of the marriage. This is the check and balance on selfish behaviour.



> Everyone has a history, and that's fine. But it's overlapping into our present, and it's becoming a problem since boundaries are being crossed.


The only advice I can give you is to keep repeating that what you're saying is for the good of the marriage. Her continued relationships with the exes that are hitting on her are not good for the marriage. It's not about what you want or what she wants. You both have to put the marriage first. Or pull the plug because you both have a fundamental differences of what healthy married life looks like.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

This sounds like a very unstable marriage that is headed for divorce.

Best of luck.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ravens667 said:


> _
> 
> The story of her ****ing up was that we were having an otherwise great month. One day, she goes to hang out with her Future Self, the bitter, much older friend of hers that has been reduced to being a slampiece at the local bars. So FS gets her all pissed off about me, and my wife dumps me over the phone. We were still new at the time, so trying something new in my relationship, I decided to give her space. So with her newfound space, she went out with a friend, and was making out with him all night long. Problem for her is, I'm very well known around here, and I had 5 different people calling me to tell me what was happening. I called her out on it, and confronted the guy. Even though she had dumped me, we were still in a relationship on FB, so that just goes to say how much guys really give a **** in regards to respecting a relationship/engagement/marriage. That may be general to most men, but it's a certain generalization of her friends. _


_

Neither here nor there, but, although the situation was ****y, she didn't really "cheat" on you, if the story is accurate.

Regardless, the type of person who dumps somebody over the phone and immediately hooks up with somebody else isn't that great of a person.

It sounds an awful lot like you used to be her, yet you've matured and changed your ways. She hasn't. So you know exactly the type of person she is, and she may (or will) eventually mature. It's up to you if you want to wait around for her to do so.

Personally, I wouldn't be wasting my time waiting for somebody to grow up like that. I don't think the women you cheated on in your past would have. She'll probably grow up at some point and make somebody really happy and be a great wife, but she's not there yet.

Is she worth your time and energy right now?_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

OldWolf57 said:


> too soon in the marriage for this. A has good points about A,B,C,D, but wrong in the damn if you do and don't.
> 
> You may love her, but you are NOT damned if you D her butt.
> You would be saving yourself years of heartache.
> ...


I'm going to modify my original reply a little bit, as I think I jumped the gun on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" comment.

My wife also had boundary issues when we first got together - though not at all to the degree that OP's does. And I didn't marry her until these boundaries were established.

Now, I didn't ever think my wife would cheat on me back then. One can never be 100% certain of course, but it's just never been apparent that that behavior is in her.

But flirt, yes. Enjoy the attention of other men, yes. We had a mature discussion about this less than a year into our relationship, and although she initially put up the usual and expected fight, that was more out of pride than anything. I don't get the feeling that she acted that way out of anything more than enjoying the attention. There was no ulterior motive for her flirty behavior, other than that's always been her personality type.

I know that very early on, she cleaned up her Facebook account of her own volition, not long after I explained to her what my boundaries were. I gave her real-world examples of how she might react if I were to flirt with women and how it would make her feel - even if I had no intention of doing anything with them. Particularly if these women knew I was not single. The fact is, she never truly thought about what the optics were to others. The fact that somebody knows you're in a relationship does not automatically make them assume you're not available and up for some fun on the side, especially if you don't make it clear to them that you're not. And what that does is make her look like a floozy and makes you look like you're unimportant.

In my case, my wife realized this and cut it out - and I trust her.

So whether it was the WAY in which I brought it up, or the fact that she felt I was important enough to change her behavior for, is moot. She did. So it CAN happen, but it generally won't unless you go about it the right way and/or she feels you are important enough to change for.

Either way, I genuinely think I got lucky. As I said, my wife was never as far off the cliff as OP's is, but it was just enough over the boundary line for me to speak up about. Frankly, if my wife had been as far over that line as OP's is, I would have had an entirely different conversation with her. The type that starts and ends with "I wish you luck in the future".


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

alexm said:


> Neither here nor there, but, although the situation was ****y, she didn't really "cheat" on you, if the story is accurate.
> 
> Regardless, the type of person who dumps somebody over the phone and immediately hooks up with somebody else isn't that great of a person.
> 
> ...


Your post was sad to read. I don't know if it's because I'm having a moment or what, but it's true.

You hit it on the nose when you said that someone who hooks up immediately afterward isn't a good person. I was too hurt to do anything myself, and what I did was see a friend of mine for drinks that same night (before I found anything out). We were talking about my relationship, and she was trying to be helpful as I faced uncertainty going forth. I could've EASILY made a pass at my friend that night, since she's one of the 'could've beens' I referred to earlier. But no, my now wife was what was on my mind, and I just needed sense and distraction that night.

The difference between her and I, was that I never took my relationships seriously. Well, I did once before, but she broke it off with me for 5 months, I tried to move on, and when she came back, that lifestyle was hard to break. I would take a similar approach to say, parenthood, in which I'd be entirely ashamed to be a druggie/drunk party parent. The major milestones in my life usually spawn a moment of self-reflection, in which it's time to put things away for good. She wants it all, the ring, the spoils, and the title of being married, but with all the liberties that come with being single. I don't think I'm being macho or domineering when I say that there should be boundaries.

As far as her being worth my time and energy now... Well, I take it seriously because I did marry her. So no, looking forward to a split isn't exactly what I want to do, but neither do I feel like playing second fiddle to a bunch of men that used to bang my wife. We've discussed couples therapy, but I don't know how much they'd guide us in the right direction.

My wife just needs to grow up. Her and her eskimo sisters are weird as hell, and her exes are annoying as all hell. This is truly disappointing.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Married for 6 months? Divorce before she gets pregnant.


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

alexm said:


> I'm going to modify my original reply a little bit, as I think I jumped the gun on the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" comment.
> 
> My wife also had boundary issues when we first got together - though not at all to the degree that OP's does. And I didn't marry her until these boundaries were established.
> 
> ...


Seeing as how I'm the only source of income in this household, I can't fathom how to make myself seem more valuable. She unironically sought the services of a divorce lawyer without having a job, nor having the possibility of getting a job that would cover her expenses alone. 

If I were to leave right this second, I'd leave her entirely desolate, and without many options other than moving back to her parents or suicide. But I guess if she thinks she can manage, then more power to her. 

There's just no talking to her, because she turns the argument from one thing (YOUR EXES ARE ****ING ANNOYING, MAKE NEW FRIENDS!) to another (YOU DON'T ALLOW ME TO HAVE FRIENDS). I just can't win this argument.

Her idea of making new friends is on the basis of getting ****ed up. For example, she calls me while I'm at work to tell me she met the new neighbor. That's cool, she's going to hang out. That's cool, too! Have fun! But then what, I get back home at 5:30pm, and she is obliterated out of her mind drunk. At our older apartment, she used to day drink all the time with the 21 year old party girl all the time (wife is 30). Not that these are fundamentally evil people, but how is it that everyone she meets is an alcoholic? Whatever happened to decent things, like having a shopping girlfriend? ****, I'd rather her spend more money than she should than to see her wasted drunk every day. An exercise partner? Book club? A couple friend?

I mean, I'm a man, so getting together with my friends is flag football, the occasional party, going to the movies, playing video games, hanging out, going to the gym, and so forth. It's not that I want her to be more like me, but just to find decent people that aren't drunks!


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

Rohitvikash said:


> Married for 6 months? Divorce before she gets pregnant.


Bah, she doesn't even want kids. She wants them in absolute verbal theory, but she doesn't seriously want them. That would mean less party time, no smoking, no drinking, and god forbid her body changes! Personally, I don't care what she looks like, but her vanity gets in the way of wanting kids.

Not happening.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Dude she's not worth the hassle. Short of a lobotomy this is who she is. She's not gonna change. Cut her loose.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> She's slipped up once, with a friend, so the trust isn't really there. For the most part, her guy friends are all exes, if they're not beta boys that profess their love to her every time they drink. My wife is the type to get black out drunk when she drinks, so being a very attractive woman, the chance of something bad to happen goes way up.





ravens667 said:


> I told her that I was tired of the fact that she would even entertain that ****, and why she couldn't just make new, decent friends, rather than putting me in the ultra-difficult position of having to accept the guys she used to **** as being her friends. This isn't like some stat where it's like 25% or 40%, but she's literally ****ed *ALL* of her friends.


You're in a very dangerous situation. Your wife is addicted to getting her ego feed by these POS's. If she's seeking validation this early in her marriage then she's either checked out, has very poor boundries or both. *It's only a matter of time she has another "slip up" and one of these creepers gets in her pants.* It's familiar territory because they are exes so it's all the more easier to rationalize it away.

You have two options: 

A) The easy route: Move away. Take yourselves out of the situation. Starting over sucks but if it saves your marriage wouldn't it be worth it? 

B) The hard way: Lay down the law once and for all. Give her an ultimatum. It's them or me. If she truly loves you then it should be an easy choice. 

If neither of these work then, as much as it hurts, chalk it up as a life lession and walk away. It's either that or accept doormat status. You can't keep this up forever. Somethings got to give and it's better it end sooner rather than later. Save yourself years of heartache if you can.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your wife is 30 years old; too old to act so immature and too old without a job nor career. You married a lifetime party girl. Unless you match her lifestyle and can live a reckless life, she is for you. You mentioned that her parents took her to a lawyer to counsel about divorce. Her parents are her financial net. 

Your wife does not respect your marital status as she will always be their child. She is very spoiled, immature, reckless, and irresponsible. I say "reckless" as one of my college students died of aids just a few years back; given to her by her husband. She looked like a living death as she wasted away. I felt so bad for her and her parents. Her father was a colleague of mine. She continued to attend college until she got very ill. Your wife's behavior has very grave ramifications.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

In regards to having kids...don't be so surprised that she gets pregnant, not long after you serve her divorce papers..That aside...

Assume NOTHING changes in your marriage. Is it really worth the stress, trust issues and head aches?


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> You're in a very dangerous situation. Your wife is addicted to getting her ego feed by these POS's. If she's seeking validation this early in her marriage then she's either checked out, has very poor boundries or both. *It's only a matter of time she has another "slip up" and one of these creepers gets in her pants.* It's familiar territory because they are exes so it's all the more easier to rationalize it away.
> 
> You have two options:
> 
> ...


That's pretty much the nature of the threat, the fact that it is familiar territory. It's already worn me down enough as it is. You know, I've never really had a problem with someone I'm dating being friends with an ex, because I've managed before, and if the guy has moved on and remains respectful, then what's the problem? 

But with her it's the annoying, obvious, half-assed advances that are driving me nuts. She fears me for all the wrong reasons, as in she thinks that I will hit her or kill someone, rather than just flat out leaving her, which will be way more destructive. Someone down below mentioned that her parents are her security net. While that's true, it's only to an extent. She's a $4000/mo adoption, so it's not like she can live off of them indefinitely.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Look where you are posting at R. Not even a year and major issues over lifestyle and friends.

How much longer are you going to twist in the wind for this woman?
Is she 24 carat gold or something?

You know, it's kind of funny in a way.
Here you are thinking you finally found the one that you could change for, and karma is settling a few old scores.
Man you got it bad. Whipped by a drunk.

Raven, we all make mistakes, but a part of growth is accepting when to fold.

I mean, look at you. You worried how she will survive, but mom and pop parked her in front of a lawyer before the door closed on her leaving.
She may be what you want, but everything we may want, may not be good for us.
Between her parents and friends, your marriage is always going to be hell.

Dude, stop wasting your time on this sham, and get single so you can find your real woman.

This one is not her.


OH, got to ask. Do you want kids?


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

Roselyn said:


> Your wife is 30 years old; too old to act so immature and too old without a job nor career. You married a lifetime party girl. Unless you match her lifestyle and can live a reckless life, she is for you. You mentioned that her parents took her to a lawyer to counsel about divorce. Her parents are her financial net.
> 
> Your wife does not respect your marital status as she will always be their child. She is very spoiled, immature, reckless, and irresponsible. I say "reckless" as one of my college students died of aids just a few years back; given to her by her husband. She looked like a living death as she wasted away. I felt so bad for her and her parents. Her father was a colleague of mine. She continued to attend college until she got very ill. Your wife's behavior has very grave ramifications.


She just looks up to all the wrong people. Her parents are happily married for almost 40 years. Her siblings are successful. She went to a prep school from K-12, as did all her siblings and grade school friends. However, something, somewhere went wrong, and she ended up back in her hometown and working beat gigs as a bartender in different bars. Her friends are all older single mothers of grown kids, and they party and do drugs... my guess would be to make up for what they interpret to be their lost years of fun. 

If she could get a Brillo pad and scrub the posh upbringing out of her, she would. She very much leads everyone to believe that she's poor white trash (her words), to better fit into the endless country bar scene that seems to suck everyone into some sort of limbo around here.

It's fun to cut back from time to time, go to a bar, go dancing, and whatever. There's nothing wrong with doing that. But revolving my life around alcoholism, and this belief that I will never grow old, is entirely absurd. I've grown up, I'm in my 30's, my fun is behind me, and I want to build onto bigger and better things.

She is spoiled in that her parents pay a blind eye to her drinking problem. It runs in the family, and seeing the heartache it's caused before, they choose to ignore it when it comes to her. I feel like I deserve support when it comes to addressing that. Reckless and irresponsible only begin to describe her personality, since she behaves entirely without consequence in mind.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

You keep saying beta wannabes, does this mean you are a real beta and not a wannabe?

I don't get what that means, sorry.

As far as being okay with your wife staying in contact with all her ex boyfriends that she has had sex with, I'd call that the most beta thing I have ever heard of. Borderline cuckold because they know every intimate detail about your wife, from how she moans, to how she feels inside, how she orgasms, how she gives oral sex, and they do not care she is married and still flirt with her knowing she is with you. And you actually know they flirt. Pretty close to cuckold imo. I can see if she had friends that were like brothers, or just had friends that she claims she had never slept with (although for me, neither of these scenarios is acceptable as I feel friends of the opposite sex are toxic to any relationship in all cases, but that's just me), I guess it's acceptable. But ex boyfriends or friends she has had sex with or had oral sex with still flirting and/or just talking to her?

No way, not in any situation, and not in my lifetime. This is absolutely unacceptable in every way.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Married six months. Already "slipped up once". A cabal of guys that beta orbit her who have all f--ked her.
> 
> Any kids? Own a house together? A dog?
> 
> ...


X2

I will completely disregard any girl that keeps multiple exes lurking around and has banged all of her guy friends. Girls like that are only good for a pump and dump.

Too bad you found out after you were married.


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

_How much longer are you going to twist in the wind for this woman?_

Not much longer.

_Is she 24 carat gold or something?_

Looking back at when we first met, you'd have thought so. She painted the perfect picture of her goals and desires in life, only to welch on that vision in the end. It truly is laughable, in retrospect. 

_You know, it's kind of funny in a way.
Here you are thinking you finally found the one that you could change for, and karma is settling a few old scores.
Man you got it bad. Whipped by a drunk._

Yeah, no ****, right? Lmao.

_Raven, we all make mistakes, but a part of growth is accepting when to fold.

I mean, look at you. You worried how she will survive, but mom and pop parked her in front of a lawyer before the door closed on her leaving.
She may be what you want, but everything we may want, may not be good for us.
Between her parents and friends, your marriage is always going to be hell.

Dude, stop wasting your time on this sham, and get single so you can find your real woman.

This one is not her._

And that's the lesson learned. I had her parents eating out of my hand the entire time. Finally, someone she can bring home that wasn't a loser. But seeing as how they took her to the lawyer, I doubt it's as much as "They don't want to see me get hurt again!" like she says, and a little more like they just cower to her tantrums. I'm sure she spiced the story up some, but her parents just don't seem to be as pragmatic as mine. My parents love me to pieces, but they're also well aware of who I am, and what I'm capable of. If I'm crossing the line, they'll give me a piece of mind rather than just blindly defending me because I'm their son. I really do feel fortunate in comparison.

_OH, got to ask. Do you want kids?_

Yes I do, but the clock is ticking. I don't want them past a certain age, and if they don't happen by then, they're not happening at all. I'm not about to start making kids at 36 and into my 40's lol.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

ravens667 said:


> She just looks up to all the wrong people. Her parents are happily married for almost 40 years. Her siblings are successful. She went to a prep school from K-12, as did all her siblings and grade school friends. However, something, somewhere went wrong, and she ended up back in her hometown and working beat gigs as a bartender in different bars. Her friends are all older single mothers of grown kids, and they party and do drugs... my guess would be to make up for what they interpret to be their lost years of fun.
> 
> If she could get a Brillo pad and scrub the posh upbringing out of her, she would. She very much leads everyone to believe that she's poor white trash (her words), to better fit into the endless country bar scene that seems to suck everyone into some sort of limbo around here.
> 
> ...


If you do decide to stay, do your future children a favor - don't have them. Heartache for them and for you. 

Problem with my suggestion - she may decide to have them with someone else while still married to you. 

Sorry, I don't see any positives in your case friend.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> She fears me for all the wrong reasons, as in she thinks that I will hit her or kill someone, rather than just flat out leaving her, which will be way more destructive.


If you find out she slept with another guy then don't bother beating up anybody. If it wasn't him it would of been some other scumbug and that's what SHE wants you to do. Don't give her the satisfaction. Instead, dump her immediately, pretend she is dead to you and let the vultures have their meat. Don't risk your well being fighting for your wife's honor if she has no honor for you or your marriage. It's not worth it and you will still feel like crap afterwards.

Good Luck.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Dude she's not worth the hassle. Short of a lobotomy this is who she is. She's not gonna change. Cut her loose.


Raven it's time to end this before there are kids in the equation time to move on.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

guys are friends with women for 4 reasons
1) they are gay
2) they want to bang them
3) they have banged them and hope to bang them again
4) they ARE banging them behind their so's backs


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## ravens667 (Oct 6, 2014)

Coldie said:


> You keep saying beta wannabes, does this mean you are a real beta and not a wannabe?
> 
> I don't get what that means, sorry.
> 
> ...


Beta wannabes are her little friends that are in the friendzone, tried really damn hard, are obviously in love with her, but don't stand a chance.

You gotta keep in mind that I literally just found all of this out last night. It's not like I'm vacuuming the floors as she's texting her old **** buddies, and asking for the details as I stroke away. I'm not ok with it, we've been shouting ever since, and I'm about to pack my things and get the **** out. 

I didn't create the thread because I wanted to vent about something that I've known about for 3 months, I created the thread just to see what I should do from here. If it'd be that evil of me to just leave her in the lurch, and just rot away.

I guess she just has some sort of comfort in the fact that I couldn't possibly put her in that situation, given that most of my exes are from out of state. I could easily cheat on her, and break her heart in a split second, but I'm dealing with a real issue here.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

missthelove2013 said:


> guys are friends with women for 4 reasons
> 1) they are gay
> 2) they want to bang them
> 3) they have banged them and hope to bang them again
> 4) they ARE banging them behind their so's backs


Always toxic. If your spouse, the person who is supposed to want you happy and taken care of, ignores your needs to maintain toxic friendships, you have everything you will ever need to know.

Selfish, bad sex, bad mom, bad wife, bad life, will end with you miserable and cucked, end with you left for someone else, or end when you man up and get out. I suggest you man up now and save yourself years of bullsht.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> guys are friends with women for 4 reasons
> 1) they are gay
> 2) they want to bang them
> 3) they have banged them and hope to bang them again
> 4) they ARE banging them behind their so's backs


ooh I forgot one
5) they want to bang your friends..there...I think that is a comprehensive and accurate list...


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Dogs and good men have something in common - loyalty sometimes to a fault. You just can't pack up and leave so easily. You need affirmation, at least to yourself that you tried to stay.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

ravens667 said:


> Beta wannabes are her little friends that are in the friendzone, tried really damn hard, are obviously in love with her, but don't stand a chance.
> 
> You gotta keep in mind that I literally just found all of this out last night. It's not like I'm vacuuming the floors as she's texting her old **** buddies, and asking for the details as I stroke away. I'm not ok with it, we've been shouting ever since, and I'm about to pack my things and get the **** out.
> 
> ...


Okay, I guess I have never dealt with beta guy friends. Nothing would make me more angry than men, acting beta or otherwise, contacting my wife. I admit, I remember once saying to my then girlfriend (maybe a few weeks into the relationship), "Why is it a big deal if he still calls you" (very beta of me, I can't believe I said that but I was young). My now wife said, "Because it's disrespectful to you. I don't want to talk to any ex boyfriends. That's why they are my ex's."

I think she wanted me to not accept ex's in her life. That's what she wanted.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Regarding her drinking, if she doesn't want or get help it will get worse it rarely gets better.
You can't fix her so please go see some attorneys.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to compare her phone to the phone bI'll and see if she is deleting messages.

If she is look up wonder share and see if you can receive the deleted messages.

If she is acting like this I doubt she is being faithful on her girls nights out.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Just next the ***** already. Go get consultations from all the best lawyers in town, retain the one you like best and have her (the lawyer) file.

Carry a VAR at all times when you're around your STBX for your own protection. She can have you arrested and ejected from the home with a phone call any time she wants and you have no defense unless you can play the police a recording that proves you did nothing. Remember, if she claims DV you are automatically guilty.

Cut her loose and move on to a worthy woman. 6 month marriage should mean no alimony. You may have to pay interim support until the divorce is final so the sooner you get it going the better off you'll be.

This one's not a keeper, throw it back.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ravens667 said:


> Not happening.


Sure, but watch what happens when you SERIOUSLY talk about separation or divorce. We have a few threads were the guy slips up and "poof" pregnancy. Alimony is limited in many states for short term marriages. Child support, financially and emotionally, is forever. 
Be careful.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Your wife is disrespecting you, gas lighting you, and focusing attention away from her foul behavour onto you.

Her claims that you are possessive, jelous etc, are straight from the cheaters text book.

For starters she should not be having guy friends period, especially exes.

You need to take a harder line on this issue and stop being a pushover. Not trying to insult just get the feeling that you are a nice guy that gets taken advantage of.

Seriously from what you describe, the drunken behavour, nights out i wouldn't be surprised if she has had physical relations with them when she goes out.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your wife may have some good superficial qualities, but Your description of her...her lack of boundaries, crap friends, drinking issues... 

Sounds like you tried to make a silk purse out of a skank....and it isn't working dude. I can smell the bar stink every time you talk about her. 

Ditch her.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ravens667 said:


> That's pretty much the nature of the threat, the fact that it is familiar territory. It's already worn me down enough as it is. You know, I've never really had a problem with someone I'm dating being friends with an ex, because I've managed before, and if the guy has moved on and remains respectful, then what's the problem?





missthelove2013 said:


> guys are friends with women for 4 reasons
> 1) they are gay
> 2) they want to bang them
> 3) they have banged them and hope to bang them again
> 4) they ARE banging them behind their so's backs


That's the thing - "AN ex". Not all of them. I also have no problem with my partner having AN ex as a friend (also very much depends on their prior situation, how long has it been, etc). Luckily, I do not have to deal with that (afaik! I suppose she could still be friends with an ex at work, for example, and not somebody we're social with).

But when all of her male friends are exes in some capacity.. nope nope nope.

Missthelove: I disagree, but not entirely. I have female friends that I have zero interest in hooking up with, and I always have. A friend is a friend, regardless of gender. Fwiw, I did have a female friend back when I was with my ex wife, and I wasn't interested in her at all. But she started to hint that she was interested in me, and I cut her loose. So I agree, there's not time for that, but you can most definitely have 100% platonic friendships with people of the opposite sex.

Not ALL guys are dogs who only look at women for one thing.

It also very much depends on your character and boundaries and those of your partner. Some people just shouldn't have opposite sex friends..


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Selfish, bad sex, bad mom, bad wife, bad life, will end with you miserable and cucked, end with you left for someone else, or end when you man up and get out. I suggest you man up now and save yourself years of bullsht.


EXACTLY. You can try but at 30 years old I doubt she will change.

Dump her before she either dumps you or makes you her doormat.

Your choice. The odds are through the roof this ends badly.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, I know it is progressive and some people think it is okay, but an opposite gender friend is one thing an ex is an absolute "nope" in my relationship. Unless, of course, you have children together.
Multiple exs is a relationship ender for me. Too many "what ifs" to entertain for me. If it makes me weak, oh well, peace of mind trumps constant worry.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I know it is progressive and some people think it is okay, but an opposite gender friend is one thing an ex is an absolute "nope" in my relationship. Unless, of course, you have children together.
> Multiple exs is a relationship ender for me. Too many "what ifs" to entertain for me. *If it makes me weak*, oh well, peace of mind trumps constant worry.


I agree with your stance. It gets painted as "weak', "controlling", "jealous" and "insecure", but saying "I'm not willing to stand for this" is the opposite of weak. It's also a clearly defined boundary.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

She drinks to the point of blacking out? And this happens when she's out with friends? 

Sorry but this either gets address via medical intervention/AA or you need to pull the plug.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Raven, the signs was all there before the wedding but you was hoping marriage would change it. She hasn't. She's gotten worse.

Now it's time to sit her down and make and exit plan.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How do you the "blacking out" episodes are nothing more than her claiming she doesn't remember what she has done? I've seen people use that excuse before.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> How do you the "blacking out" episodes are nothing more than her claiming she doesn't remember what she has done? I've seen people use that excuse before.


Yup. She sleeps around and then "blacks out" so she unfortunately albeit conveniently just doesn't remember the whole sorid affair.

Funny, nobody ever "blacks out" after feeding the homeless and clothing the poor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Just divorce her. If she begs you stay married, she has to go into therapy.

She is not promising. Given her threat to divorce, you should beat her to the punch.

Did you buy a home together?


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

You should also consider that she may be suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder or BPD. Alot of the traits and descriptions seem to fit. For further review hop over to the mental health forum section of this place and review to see not only if this is true but what can be done, if anything, and what you will, no might, but will, be put thru. 

You can recognize that you are a nice guy, possibly even codependent. If so, this will be nothing more than a reciprocal cycle of you trying to fill a void that cannot be filled.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, I disagree. She sounds like a party girl who realized she still likes to party.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sounds like you're ready to be married and she isn't. Bad choice of mate on your part. The whole point of being an orbiter is to wait for a weak moment, like when she's mad at you, drunk, etc. 

EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I've sort of been in this situation with the current G.F. 

They are all beta orbiters looking for something more.. One "Guy Friend" of 20 years recently cut her loose because she didn't give him a chance after she separated from her husband. 

My G.F. is clearly a woman who needs or needed the attention and used to it, especially from men. 

Long story, short. I had to lay it on the line with her and tell her it was me or them. I admittingly told her everything I read tells you to ignore beta orbiters, but I just couldn't.. 

fortunately unlike yourself I could see into the future knowing that they were ready to cut me up and rip me apart trying to convince her to cut me loose. 

They also had inappropriate conversations. 

After she told he she cut them loose, I caught her lying and still talking with one of them. I told her to go fvck herself and stormed out her apt.. She came running after me begging me to come back. 

She knows today any sort of lying and I am done.. 
I told her clearly the following; *I love you and want you in my life. But if I catch you lying to me again about anything, even if its a little white lie.. WE ARE DONE.. It will pain me and kill me to do it, I will do it fighting every fiber in my body telling me not to, but I will have to.. Please do not put me in the position of making this choice..*

In many ways my G.F. was like you or your wife, but 20 years ago. Unfortunately she told me much about her past.. I will tell you she shouldn't have. I think for many men 20 years ago might as well be 20 minutes ago. I am big on the past predicts the future even with the therapist telling me otherwise as well. Even my G.F. petition or campaigning she is a different women from 20 years ago. Again I know those are my own personal issues.

But my G.F. as well tells me from time to time she has no more friends. I always correct her, you mean no more *"Bullsh!t Guy Friends"*.

So in a nutshell we have been together a little over 1 year.
At first I didn't know about the guy friends, about 1 month into it and then as she started telling me the line *"I get alone with guys more than girls"*, I felt I was being set up for something, and I was. I discovered that others in the past also had issues with these "guy friends" as well. The only difference is they pretended to be okay with it at first and even went out with them, but eventually showed their true feelings about it or they made comments and she ( meaning the G.F.) told them it is what it is and they had to deal with it.

Myself as I seen it coming was very open about my feelings on this and that I wasn't happy or comfortable with it. I got some resistance, but wouldn't back down from it. 

We had other little things similar pop up and a few lies that she got caught on that crushed my trust at the time for her and she knew it. 

Fortunately I guess, she had very strong feelings for me and was ashamed of getting caught in these lies, no matter how minor she thought they were. 

Fast forward to today almost a year later..

Today she knows the following..

1. I expressed over time that if she can lie about what she considers small stuff, that she will clearly lie about big stuff. 

2. She knows today beyond any shadow of a doubt that any lie will end this relationship. 

3. That putting any other person before me will end this relationship. Of course this does not include our kids.


I think you need to be open and honest about your feelings with this. It seems like your trying to be cool joe about it with her. 

As an example I am getting the following impression from you..

Instead of saying "Hey, honey, I love you, but I can't explain how much this hurts me reading something like this on your phone"

You say. You know, you want to talk to that a$$hole that way, then I can do the same thing. 

I feel you might be putting on a bravado you just don't need to in a marriage. Spouses SHOULD know what each is like down to the bare metal.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry but it seems pretty clear that you married the wrong woman.
She has no conception of what being married is or how to be married.

I think it is very convenient for her to say she was drinking and blacked out and has no idea if she had sex with anybody. This is not a woman you need to be married to.

See a lawyer and cut this cancer out of your life. Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I had an anecdote, but I'm not going to waste your time. Look, you need to rectify this situation now to protect yourself, your wife and your assets.

Also, don't categorize the exs as beta orbiters. A few of these guys are smarter than the Alpha husband who label them as such. You think she is looking for or likes the attention. Some of these guys *KNOW* she gets black out drunk and I'd bet a paycheck some of them are predators looking for sex.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If I ever marry, again, my bride won't be passing out when drinking because she won't be going out without me.
Been there and done that.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Raven, I didn't read pages 2-4, but why'd you pick this one to marry?

I would chalk this one up to mistake, get the divorce and move on.


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