# Do you say EXACTLY what you mean or expect others to translate?



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

I have correctly been constructively criticized for being pedantic. 

Some of us are pedantic and others not at all. 

It nearly cost me my marriage until I figured out 

Old marriage destroying way her > me

"You never say I love you any more" > "I said it last Thursday"
"You always ignore me" > "We talked for three hours two days ago"
"You think I am a terrible person" > "No I just don't like some of the3 tings you do"
"They have good taste" >"Don't you mean they have the same taste as you?"

New marriage saving way

"You never say I love you any more" > "It sounds like I don't say it enough. I love you and I will work on that so you know how much I love you"

"You always ignore me" > "Oh hi sweetheart I didn't see you there. How was your day?"

"You think I am a terrible person" > "I love you. Did I hurt your feelings?"

"They have good taste" >"I noticed that also"

Being pedantic has served me well professionally but hundreds of destructive fights with my wife until I realized I cant take ANYTHING literally. I have to translate it to she means.


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> Some of us are pedantic and others not at all.


I think that you are probably like me... I, too, tend to interpret people literally. I value accuracy in conversation and it bugs me when people communicate ineffectively. 

The problem is that humans generally don't ever say precisely what they mean. In some ways, we're trained to do this since childhood. It's difficult for me to adapt to it sometimes. 

I assume you weren't going out of your way and deliberately taking your wife literally just to be a jerk? Because that is definitely a passive-aggressive tactic I often employed with my now ex-wife. I did it purposefully to irritate her.

My wife has the tendency to start conversations like this: "So, I told her that we're going to go to that thing later, is that okay with you?" and I have to scramble to try to figure out what she means. Who is "she" in this context? What is this "thing" that she's talking about? And I realize this is the continuation of a conversation from two hours ago when she's talking about a neighbor who's throwing a birthday party. I wish she'd communicate more succinctly, but I really think it's just how her brain works!

It sounds like you're learning to talk to your wife in her own language, and that's great! 


Quigster


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Not sure I am understanding your post properly but from where I sit it looks like this....................

In the "old marriage destroying way"
she was using *absolutes* eg *never, always. you think* and your responses were argumentative or at least offhand.

In the "new marriage saving way"
she is still using absolutes and your responses sound a lot more like you are engaging with her.

So is it a good thing that you have grown and modified your destructive language yet she still uses absolutes which can be very destructive?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I applaud you for being able to "translate" what your wife was/is saying, and I think that is a groundbreaking discovery. I also fully realize there is no way you can change or control your wife or the way she says things. But to me, the WAY she says things is just highly inappropriate:

"You never say I love you any more" 
"You always ignore me" 
"You think I am a terrible person" 
"They have good taste"

Notice that every single one of those statements is her assuming she is in someone else's head and knows what they are thinking. YOU ___ and YOU ____ She does not share about herself--she tells you what YOU are thinking!

I get it--you can't change her, but I truly think it would be much more healthy for her to speak about her own thoughts and feelings rather than speaking "FOR" others:

"It feels to me as if you don't say I love you very often"
"Lately I've been feeling ignored"
"Wow it sounds to me as if you think I'm a terrible person. Is that what you think?"
"Their taste is so similar to mine! Naturally I think their taste is exquisite!"


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Quigster said:


> I think that you are probably like me... I, too, tend to interpret people literally. I value accuracy in conversation and it bugs me when people communicate ineffectively.


Yes but I am working diligently on be a more loving, effective and happy person by accepting and CELEBRATING the differences in people without lowering standards that work for me. 



Quigster said:


> I assume you weren't going out of your way and deliberately taking your wife literally just to be a jerk? Because that is definitely a passive-aggressive tactic I often employed with my now ex-wife. I did it purposefully to irritate her.


No I sincerely had no idea someone did not mean EXACTLY what they said because I am STRIDENT about doing that myself and expected it from all intelligent life form. Totally legit and totally absurd I now understand. I divide people into two groups lits and trans. Literals and translationaries and then execute communication with them accordingly. It has made me much happier and less whiney about stupidity by accepting the translationaries as they are. It is a simple matter of identification and he rest is easy.



Quigster said:


> It sounds like you're learning to talk to your wife in her own language, and that's great!


We are both much happier now. She feels loved and I rarely feel annoyed any more because my expectations are aligned perfectly with reality and I am able to translate easily. I feel smarter now and proud and excited about of my progress being more loving toward my wife and finding ore happiness for myself by dispensing with irritations


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Holland said:


> In the "old marriage destroying way"
> she was using *absolutes* eg *never, always. you think* and your responses were argumentative or at least offhand.
> 
> In the "new marriage saving way"
> ...


Yes 



Affaircare said:


> I applaud you for being able to "translate" what your wife was/is saying, and I think that is a groundbreaking discovery. I also fully realize there is no way you can change or control your wife or the way she says things. But to me, the WAY she says things is just highly inappropriate:
> 
> "You never say I love you any more"
> "You always ignore me"
> ...


This us very helpful. Thank you very much.

Yes it is "groundbreaking" for me as I am geometrically happier and a much better friend and mate to my wife AS WELL AS EVERYONE ELSE IN MY LIFE now that I understand how common translationaries are


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

One of the things that my husband loves about me is that I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. Always. 

If I need something from him, I will say so directly, no hinting, smoke signals, carrier pigeons. Just "I'm feeling a bit clingy/emotional/stressed, I need you to a,b,c" and without hesitation, he does what I need.

A lot of women expect their husbands to read their minds. If something is wrong when he asks you tell him! Don't say nothing and then sulk and flounce around all day. Geez.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

frusdil said:


> One of the things that my husband loves about me is that I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. Always


I do that and I get "Are you sure?"

Old destructive way "Yes I am sure. I am always sure and I never hesitate to say exactly what I want. EVER!!!!. I don't know why the hell you always have to ask me if I am sure. I tell you this 8 thousand times and you just cant sem to grasp that I am not some wishy washy wussy wimp unsure of blah blah blah" (I am so lucky to still have a wife that loves me again that I almost lost before I figured out the secret code}

New loving way "Sure am, thanks so much. That would be super" 



frusdil said:


> If I need something from him, I will say so directly, no hinting, smoke signals, carrier pigeons. Just "I'm feeling a bit clingy/emotional/stressed, I need you to a,b,c" and without hesitation, he does what I need.
> 
> A lot of women expect their husbands to read their minds. If something is wrong when he asks you tell him! Don't say nothing and then sulk and flounce around all day. Geez.


Neither of these are my wife. The difference is accuracy of chosen words, not a lack of words or a lack of trying or asking. These are common but different so I agree with you even if they don't apply to my lovely wife.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Holland said:


> Not sure I am understanding your post properly but from where I sit it looks like this....................
> 
> In the "old marriage destroying way"
> she was using *absolutes* eg *never, always. you think* and your responses were argumentative or at least offhand.
> ...


I think the old way can be simplified to:
I feel upset > How dare you, there is nothing wrong with me!

The new way is:
I feel upset > I am sorry you are upset, how can I help?

It is acknowledging that the statement is about her and not about you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm another woman that's as subtle as a brick through a glass window. My SO and just about every other male I've ever encountered find it quite relieving because it requires zero interpretation or processing power. 

What I say is what I think and how I act is how I feel. I just don't understand people that speak through veritable interpretive dance or smoke signals.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Satya said:


> I just don't understand people that speak through veritable interpretive dance or smoke signals.


I used to be this also but have accepted that a huge chunk of he population requires translation. I am now more considerate, happier and now listen more closely and interpret as needed so I don't miss their message. It's a better place for me while it is still stunningly refreshing and my preference to communicate with the literals.

I have written a training program on "disgruntled customer service" One of the methods taught in the training is to be a HERO

H Hear what the customer is saying (Discussing this is where many discoveries are made on the thread topic)
E Empathize with the customer 
R Repeat what you are hearing is the issue (This is where translation is required often by emotional translationaries)
O Offer options to solve the issues they are having

The other place I had some breakthroughs is a discussion about when I child says "I hate you" it means "I am hurting and do not know how to express that"

I also note often when I hear "In other words" it is followed by translation errors (mostly from oversimplification) so it can be exhausting at times to master the skills needed to receive messages that need translation.

I have also found translationaries will not change for my liking. They are not going to become literal for anyone including themselves. The concept is foreign to them.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

thread the needle said:


> I used to be this also but have accepted that a huge chunk of he population requires translation. I am now more considerate, happier and now listen more closely and interpret as needed so I don't miss their message. It's a better place for me while it is still stunningly refreshing and my preference to communicate with the literals.


How do you know if your interpretation actually is the same as what the other person / people meant? I am thinking that has to be risk to not taking people at face value.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Okay, you've adapted to her dysfunctional communication style to preserve the relationship. That's good, as she probably won't/can't change her distorted, absolutist perspectives. Your previous response style would be perfectly fine for a reasonable, rational person.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> How do you know if your interpretation actually is the same as what the other person / people meant? I am thinking that has to be risk to not taking people at face value.


You don't. It is risky. It takes practice

However, when you get to know someone's communication style or you notice frequent invalid statements, you know when to attempt your level best translation.

What do I mean by frequent invalid statements?

My wife using the words "always", "never" and "terrible" were the first statement flags I recognized as needing translation. 

I am wondering if this only occurs when she is upset now that I am thinking about it more. I will have to put some thought to that.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Wonderful topic, thread the needle. This is the heart of so many communication issues in a marriage. We had this problem too, and it finally dawned on me that my engineer husband was not trying to criticize me with his nit-picky comments, he just took everything I said literally, and would question me about the smallest details. I would respond, "But you know what I mean!" No, he didn't know what I meant because I wasn't precise enough for him.

I stopped being offended by his questions, and he stopped analyzing everything I said. We both started assuming the best of intentions instead of nurturing resentments about hurt feelings.

I finally understood the expression, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm pretty direct, so I say what I mean. 

However, a partner who could not process or engage in conversation that was not 100% literal would drive me absolutely off the edge. I hear my partner's words through a filter of empathy. I need a partner who does the same for me. Insistence on extreme literalness and absolute rationality at all times can easily come across as dismissive, lacking in empathy, and passive-aggressive.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Okay, you've adapted to her dysfunctional communication style to preserve the relationship. That's good, as she probably won't/can't change her distorted, absolutist perspectives. Your previous response style would be perfectly fine for a reasonable, rational person.


I have found with the sheer number of them, that negative labels and attitude are not conducive to my own happiness or to understand what the hell this large group of people that are not able to articulate crisply are talking about. 

I believe now that my brain should get an error message when someone says "you always..." and I take it literally and find it frustrating. 

They is a group of foljs that are perfectly comfortable translating. What I am saying I was not one of them for over 45 years and now I am dtarting to grasp that being pedantic is annoying to others and too many messages were lost.

Hell my wife and I would ague about how we were arguing and couldn't remember what started it as we became consumed with this always never terrible person bog of poo!

It was absolutely nutbar for YEARS until I someone cared enough to tell me I was being pedantic and it rang a very loud wake up bell with me. That habit has died a long slow miserable death but I am determined because when I am not that I get on much better with everyone that is not blunt


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I find young(er) people have become absurdly almost pathologically 'literal minded' to the point where no one really understands or recognizes what context, metaphor or allusion are. So you can be very clear, very 'literal minded' and they look at you like Rain Man. I think for the purposes of this, you have to be direct and honest more than you have to me mechanistically 'accurate'.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

I like the concept of "emotional intelligence." It means listening with empathy for the feelings behind a person's words. It means asking questions to clarify meaning rather than assuming that your partner is an idiot or a jerk.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Woof, yes, this all sounds very familiar. Great thread. I need this reminder occasionally.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

A few weeks ago, my nephew was over at our house. He and my daughter were playing video games and he says... "maybe my mom will forget I have counseling tonite".. they continued to play. She come busting thru the door at the last minute and says.. "Why aren't you ready? You have counseling tonite" He horsed around a bit and she says "alright.. nevermind, I will go myself tonite." And she walked out the door. The kids went back to their game and I went back to what I was doing. A few hrs later, she returned and was all mad at him. I told her she shouldn't be mad at him now.. she said it was alright. If it really wasn't then she should of insisted he go.. she can't give a teenager mixed messages like that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

skype said:


> I like the concept of "emotional intelligence." It means listening with empathy for the feelings behind a person's words. It means asking questions to clarify meaning rather than assuming that your partner is an idiot or a jerk.



This is so important.. I think some are so logically minded.. they can miss the subtle cues of another more emotional who is reaching out.. sure she could be more DIRECT in her approach....hopefully if you work with her.. she can see the value in this.. 

I am a woman who can spell it out in all it's glory and greatly enjoy communicating it.. if I am misunderstood..something is terribly wrong.. 

Some people are wired more subtle (passive) over forthcoming (direct / assertive).. then on top of this these same people may be geared more emotional (feeling) over Logical (thinking).. when 2 of these collide.. add to this a bad day.. feeling hurt, lost , confused.. yeah.. sometimes that person just needs a little more understanding.. I'm sure it can be challenging at times..... 

I think it's great the progress you have made with your wife Thread the needle!.. very commendable !

I look at Emotional Intelligence as the ultimate balance between the 2 (the emotional & the logical & other good things at play) .... when you have 2 partners flowing in this... communication is always clear, concise.... oh they may not always agree! .. but it's without the games, and passive aggressive junk.... it could be a lot of fun bantering it out too!


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## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> My wife using the words "always", "never" and "terrible" were the first statement flags I recognized as needing translation.


People often generalize or exaggerate for dramatic effect. My wife does it, too, using those exact same words. If I forget to turn off the lights when I go to bed once or twice a month, she might make a remark that I "always" forget to do it. If I do one load of laundry for every three or four that she does, then I "never" help with the household chores. If we go out to dinner, and the food came out promptly and the waitress was friendly and polite but she forgot to refill our drinks, then that was the night we got "terrible" service.

Sometimes when I'm feeling argumentative I will question her choice of words. Usually the response I get is, "Come on, you know what I mean." Which I do.


Quigster


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There are two ways to approach communication:

1. As an engineer
Or
2. An artist

The people I like best can seemlessly switch between the two. The engineers approach is to focus on:
- Clarity
- Completeness 
- Brevity 

And indeed we all love to deal with folks who have mastered this skill. 

That said, the artists are great story tellers. And they're typically both amusing and quick to laugh. 

Oh yeah - and they excel and reading and writing body language and are oft able to do with a micro expression what the 'engineer' is unable to do at all. 

Almost everyone can become 'competent' WRT clarity, brevity and completeness. But it's WAY harder, maybe impossible to teach the art. 




SimplyAmorous said:


> This is so important.. I think some are so logically minded.. they can miss the subtle cues of another more emotional who is reaching out.. sure she could be more DIRECT in her approach....hopefully if you work with her.. she can see the value in this..
> 
> I am a woman who can spell it out in all it's glory and greatly enjoy communicating it.. if I am misunderstood..something is terribly wrong..
> 
> ...


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> There are two ways to approach communication:
> 
> 1. As an engineer
> Or
> 2. An artist


For intelligent life form sure but there is certaintly a third. It is 

3. A lazy untalented slob.

They are identified frequently by the habit of adding "you know what I mean" statements or questions at the end of their fragmented incoherent attempt at communication.

Your view is lovely but incomplete WADR


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