# my wifes trainer



## joeydinap

Need some help guys, my 49 year old wife has a 25 year stud trainer who looks at her with passion in his eyes. he won't even look at me or even say hello to me. this has been going on for over a year. she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side. She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.

Am I overly sensitive or a fool


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## tacoma

Wait a sec...

She has stated that she`d divorce before getting rid of her trainer?

Clarify that please.


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## SkyIsBlue

Seems to me that if you've told her your concerns and she won't budge "even to the point of potential divorce," you have your answer. Not knowing your history, if she absolutely won't address your concerns, she's not respecting you or your marriage.

That said, before you go down that road, you should start searching for evidence beyond the look in his eyes. How private are the workouts? Do they spend any other time together?


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## southern wife

joeydinap said:


> Am I overly sensitive or a fool


The latter...


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## Hope1964

tacoma said:


> Wait a sec...
> 
> She has stated that she`d divorce before getting rid of her trainer?
> 
> Clarify that please.


:iagree:

If she really said that, take her up on it. Now. Before the offer expires. Why on earth would you want to be married to someone who said such a thing???


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## In_The_Wind

Might want to consider a keylogger, or voice activated recorder in her vehicle or a PI to see what exactly is going on if your gut is telling you something normally it is accurate How is your relationship with your spouse has it changed any recently ?? or over the time that she has had a trainer ??


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## morituri

Seems like your choices are clear. Either accept and continue living in a one sided open marriage where your wife can have sex with her trainer or any other man she pleases OR file for divorce and move on with your life without her. The choice is yours.


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## AFEH

I don’t think you are over sensitive or a fool. Your wife’s behaviour (and the trainer’s behaviour) is giving you cause for concern. There is so much said with behaviour and body language yet no words are spoken at all. You may want to contemplate that for a while.

What you are experiencing is “perplexity”. You are perplexed because there is no congruence or correspondence between what your wife says and how she behaves. And she seems to be totally ignoring your emotions which can make you feel like you don’t even exist!

People can lie so easily with their words but it is exceptionally hard to tell lies with behaviour and body language. That’s why we say “Believe what they do, not what they say” in situations like this.




If your wife is lying to you there is absolutely no point in asking her any questions! You may want to look for other clues though using voice activated recorders, snoop in her emails, mobile etc.


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## southern wife

In_The_Wind said:


> Might want to consider a keylogger, or voice activated recorder in her vehicle or a PI to see what exactly is going on if your gut is telling you something normally it is accurate How is your relationship with your spouse has it changed any recently ?? or over the time that she has had a trainer ??


:iagree: At least weed out that she's NOT having an affair......


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## maggot brain

You say she's 49 huh? Is he keeping her looking hot at that age? Might not be a bad situation overrall, just sayin'...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

joeydinap said:


> Need some help guys, my 49 year old wife has a 25 year stud trainer who looks at her with passion in his eyes. he won't even look at me or even say hello to me. this has been going on for over a year. she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side. She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.
> 
> Am I overly sensitive or a fool


Not a believer in opposite sex trainers. So if my wife said she was getting a new trainer I would ask about them for a number of reasons. Mostly from a training perspective. But my wife would know that going in that a male PT is a non starter.

Personal trainers are in too good a position to provide attention to a woman IMHO. While not painting all with a broad brush most are not very professional. It is often a temporary job for them. It is a great place to pickup women. There are for sure serious personal trainers. But they are in the severe minority.

Is your wife a competitive athlete? If so a personal trainer is important. I still think it would be risky but this matters.

Why you waited a year I have no idea. 

If she protests to much that is a red flag. That said you waited a year. That makes this very tough. You will be called jealous, controlling and insecure. Let those roll off your back. They do not matter at all.

So you are left with telling her you are uncomfortable with this guiy. If she chooses to keep him anyway then you know where you stand in your marriage. A distant second to some guy at the gym.

No doubt there is more going on in your marriage than this.

------

Not a PT story but a few weeks back a friend's wife posted the following on her facebook while she was having a massage:

I think the young guy massaging my thighs right now is enjoying this as much as I am!!!  I think I will give him an extra tip. LOL.

The above was part of a few posts from her spa visit.

Anyway that post was removed later in the day. Her husband is a very fit guy but he is likely double the age of the massage guy. This was innocent fun I am sure BUT, she got some interesting comments on her post. I refrained from comment.


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## Entropy3000

maggot brain said:


> You say she's 49 huh? Is he keeping her looking hot at that age? Might not be a bad situation overrall, just sayin'...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She can be hot with a female trainer. If she is hot she would be a target for a good number of PTs.

Most men are not happy having a hot wife and sharing her. It takes the fun out of it unless one is into that kink.


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## LovesHerMan

Your wife needs to respect your feelings. Even if nothing is going on, she needs to get a female trainer because it is too easy for an affair to start in the heated atmosphere of a training room. Touching, giving encouragement and admiration, and working together for a personal goal are dangerous. She is getting attention that she should be getting only from you.

If she pulls out the controlling card, let her know that you would do the same if she saw you getting too close to a female friend. Emphasize that you want to protect your marriage, and you do not like feeling suspicious and jealous.


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## WorkingOnMe

Get yourself a hot female trainer. Then put a pass code on your cell phone so only you can see your texts. Even if the only person who texts you is your wife.


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## sisters359

I would like to point out the OP said nothing to indicate his wife was in any way misbehaving--her "behavior" does not seem to bear reproach. The PT is ogling her, and that makes the OP uncomfortable. 

The problem with men demanding that their wives "do what they say" in this situation is that it is the beginning edge of a very steep and slippery slope. Just how much, exactly, does a woman have to do to AVOID being the object of another man's attention?

Do men simply not realize that women will NOT be attracted to every hot looking guy who steps by? Do they not accept that a 49 year old woman might see a 25 year old--who is a good trainer--as a little puppy dog? Puppy dogs make one feel good, but not in a remotely sexual or romantic way! 

To "give in" to a man's unjust suspicions feels just wrong--it seems to be an agreement, "Yeah, I should stop b/c you do have something to worry about," when there is absolutely nothing to worry about.

Of course I can be totally wrong--I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is. 

And fyi, if a woman is going to the mattresses on this, it may well be because her self-respect is at issue--not some sexy trainer she could sneek around to see if she really wanted to continue to have sex with him. Heck, the willingess to stop seeing him would make me more suspicious than the unwillingess.


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## Complexity

If she's risking to throw away your relationship for him then the two of them have something going on.


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## Browncoat

sisters359 said:


> I would like to point out the OP said nothing to indicate his wife was in any way misbehaving--her "behavior" does not seem to bear reproach. The PT is ogling her, and that makes the OP uncomfortable.
> 
> The problem with men demanding that their wives "do what they say" in this situation is that it is the beginning edge of a very steep and slippery slope. Just how much, exactly, does a woman have to do to AVOID being the object of another man's attention?
> 
> Do men simply not realize that women will NOT be attracted to every hot looking guy who steps by? Do they not accept that a 49 year old woman might see a 25 year old--who is a good trainer--as a little puppy dog? Puppy dogs make one feel good, but not in a remotely sexual or romantic way!
> 
> To "give in" to a man's unjust suspicions feels just wrong--it seems to be an agreement, "Yeah, I should stop b/c you do have something to worry about," when there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
> 
> Of course I can be totally wrong--I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is.
> 
> And fyi, if a woman is going to the mattresses on this, it may well be because her self-respect is at issue--not some sexy trainer she could sneek around to see if she really wanted to continue to have sex with him. Heck, the willingess to stop seeing him would make me more suspicious than the unwillingess.


I hear what you're saying, but at the same rate there's a time and place to pick your battles in a marriage. This for me wouldn't be one.

If I had a female trainer (well I wouldn't but for the sake of discussion) and my wife asked me to change instructors I would. Frankly most PTs are solid and even if the best one was this particular female, it's more important for me to have my wife's confidence than to have a great PT.

Now there are times where I put my foot down and I can be unyielding when I believe it's for the best... but like I said I pick my battles.


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## AFEH

sisters359 said:


> I would like to point out the OP said nothing to indicate his wife was in any way misbehaving--her "behavior" does not seem to bear reproach. The PT is ogling her, and that makes the OP uncomfortable.
> 
> The problem with men demanding that their wives "do what they say" in this situation is that it is the beginning edge of a very steep and slippery slope. Just how much, exactly, does a woman have to do to AVOID being the object of another man's attention?
> 
> Do men simply not realize that women will NOT be attracted to every hot looking guy who steps by? Do they not accept that a 49 year old woman might see a 25 year old--who is a good trainer--as a little puppy dog? Puppy dogs make one feel good, but not in a remotely sexual or romantic way!
> 
> To "give in" to a man's unjust suspicions feels just wrong--it seems to be an agreement, "Yeah, I should stop b/c you do have something to worry about," when there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
> 
> Of course I can be totally wrong--I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is.
> 
> And fyi, if a woman is going to the mattresses on this, it may well be because her self-respect is at issue--not some sexy trainer she could sneek around to see if she really wanted to continue to have sex with him. Heck, the willingess to stop seeing him would make me more suspicious than the unwillingess.


Ok so reverse the roles. Forty-nine year old man with a twenty-five year old personal trainer in private workouts. The female trainer totally ignores the guy’s wife and looks with lust and desire at her husband.

Wife relays her fears to her husband and he says “Stuff you, I’ll not give her up even if you divorce me!”.




Come on Sisters. You are so very big about men being aware of and addressing their wives emotional needs. Are you truly not for wives addressing their husbands emotional needs?


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## okeydokie

sisters359 said:


> I would like to point out the OP said nothing to indicate his wife was in any way misbehaving--her "behavior" does not seem to bear reproach. The PT is ogling her, and that makes the OP uncomfortable.
> 
> The problem with men demanding that their wives "do what they say" in this situation is that it is the beginning edge of a very steep and slippery slope. Just how much, exactly, does a woman have to do to AVOID being the object of another man's attention?
> 
> Do men simply not realize that women will NOT be attracted to every hot looking guy who steps by? Do they not accept that a 49 year old woman might see a 25 year old--who is a good trainer--as a little puppy dog? Puppy dogs make one feel good, but not in a remotely sexual or romantic way!
> 
> To "give in" to a man's unjust suspicions feels just wrong--it seems to be an agreement, "Yeah, I should stop b/c you do have something to worry about," when there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
> 
> Of course I can be totally wrong--I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is.
> 
> And fyi, if a woman is going to the mattresses on this, it may well be because her self-respect is at issue--not some sexy trainer she could sneek around to see if she really wanted to continue to have sex with him. Heck, the willingess to stop seeing him would make me more suspicious than the unwillingess.


i guess its always good to see the "but what if" scenario, aka blame the man


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## Lon

sisters359 said:


> --I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is.


I agree completely that if there is no trust the marriage is broken, the problem is always much bigger than the affair. My reason for going straight to "an affair" on so many of the threads on this site with red flags is that as long as one spouse is in the affair, or even if the affair is over but their heart and mind is still in it (the fog) it is impossible to fix the problem.

I know there are some on here that like to give the benefit of a doubt, but betrayed spouses have so often followed their intuition to this site for a reason and I am not going to pull punches on here or politely tell someone they may be over-reacting because that is never doing them a favor.


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## Kobo

Browncoat said:


> I hear what you're saying, but at the same rate there's a time and place to pick your battles in a marriage. This for me wouldn't be one.
> 
> If I had a female trainer (well I wouldn't but for the sake of discussion) and my wife asked me to change instructors I would. Frankly most PTs are solid and even if the best one was this particular female, it's more important for me to have my wife's confidence than to have a great PT.
> 
> Now there are times where I put my foot down and I can be unyielding when I believe it's for the best... but like I said I pick my battles.


Man need only sex and beer


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## In_The_Wind

joeydinap said:


> She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.


This is pretty telling in my opinion she should be willing to reassure her husband and if he feels uncomfortable then do something about it If the tables were turned I am sure he would change PT"s I know i would just so my spouse would feel secure. Again I feel that if she will not then what is she hiding ?? he should at least investigate normally yr gut instincts are right


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## FrankKissel

This all seems a bit suspicious, and while I'm not questioning OP's honesty, I do wonder if he's seeing things that aren't there.
Grown men generally aren't into women twice their age. Certainly not to the point that they stare at those women - in front of their husbands no less - "with passion in their eyes." And especially not "stud" personal trainers whose options would seem to extend beyond those on the cusp of an AARP membership.

Maybe this guy is an extreme outlier when it comes to this kind of thing and is into jaguars (cougar + 10). But it does seem way outside the norm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby

I've been lurking on this board for quite a while and getting a great education here from the regular posters. I saw this post and had to register to tell my story about a personal trainer and my wife.

Several months ago, my 47 year old wife, who is very attractive and fit, came home from the gym and told me she was approached by one of the trainers who was trying to sell her on being trained by him. He told her she's hot but he can get her even hotter, cutting her fat percentage in half, or something like that. I could tell she enjoyed the attention he was giving her. He happens be one of those huge, muscular guys, about 6-4 240 and 29 years old. He resembles an NFL tight end.

She was pretty excited about doing this, but I had reservations. At this time, I was very ignorant about boundaries and I remember thinking I didn't want to come off as "controlling" or "insecure." So my objection to it was more on the grounds of the cost, at least that's what I told my wife. She said the trainer offered to give her a free introductory session which I agreed to, even though I wasn't happy about it.

To set up the session, she had to get his phone number. After that, she didn't talk about him much and finally they did the intoductory session after a few weeks. After that, the trainer wanted to talk to me (since I controlled the finances) about setting up regular sessions for her. I told him it was too expensive. 

During this period my wife was picking fights with me, the sex stopped, she was protective of her phone, she told me I needed to lift weights more, didn't talk to me a lot, accused me of cheating etc. I told her expressed concern that our marriage wasn't going well, that I felt like I was single, but she assured me that everything was fine. Like an idiot, I didn't connect the dots thinking the trainer might have something to do with this strange behavior until one day she approached me that maybe we should consider having an open marriage. While that was shocking to me, I should point out that we've talked about bringing a girl into the bedroom but have never acted on that, so mild swinging-type behavior has been discussed before, but more as fantasy stuff. So the request didn't come completely out of the blue. 

After I told her I wasn't interested in that, I became suspicious. I asked her who she had in mind which she replied, "the trainer." She then told me that he told her he was "god's gift to women" and that he had "10 inches." She said he was trying to get her to have sex with her, but she said she couldn't because she's married. (I have always told her if she ever cheated, we're finished.) He told her all the trainers were having sex with their clients. I asked her if she slept with him, which she denied. I then asked her if they've been talking on the phone or texting. She denied that also.

The open marriage request was troubling to me so I googled for info and found this forum. A big thank you to the regular posters here! I looked into the phone records and found several long conversations and about 200 text messages over a 2 month period. It wasn't nearly as bad as some of the infidelity stories I've heard here, but still very alarming and hurtful to me. The big thought I had was "I can't believe she would ever do this to me." It turned out that the calls and texts stopped about the same time that I told the trainer we wouldn't be paying him to train my wife. In my opinion for him, it was more about the money than sex. Although he wanted sex also, but didn't want to waste his time if he wasn't getting paid. I also found a piece of paper which she labeled "Crazy talk with ____" She listed lots of things they talked about, including him trying to get into her pants. She then listed possible reasons why he wasn't talking to her anymore. It was obvious she wasn't happy about him not talking to her and also it looked like it didn't go physical. I know, I might be naive about this, but I'm trying to base this on known facts.

After learning about "manning up" and being alpha, and not being a doormat, and chemical addictions to EAs and PAs, I confronted my wife about the phone calls and texts and tried to determine if the EA had gone physical. I firmly told her I would never tolerate any more lies. I told her that if she wants to pursue an open marriage arrangement then I would divorce her immediately. Before I threatened divorce, I had to convince myself that I would be okay if it came to that. Yes, it would be devastating, but I would survive. The confrontation was done in a strong, alpha male way. No crying, no begging on my part. She tried to explain her reasons (attention from a hot young guy was appealing to an older married woman) but admitted it was wrong and showed genuine remorse along with tears.

After that, we had a thorough discussion on boundaries and transparency and passwords, etc., which was sorely missing, and agreed it isn't a good idea for her to exercise by herself. We now work out together nearly every day and spend the recommended 10-15 hours together. No more talk about a 3rd or 4th person in the bedroom. It truly feels like a new beginning.

To the OP, my message to you is "BEWARE THE PERSONAL TRAINER!"

Also, don't be afraid to be a man and demand that the training arrangement stop. You have to get to a place where you're not afraid of divorce, if it comes to that. I'll bet she doesn't respect you because you're letting a another man train her.


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## Gabriel

My wife is a personal trainer. First it was at a gym where she had a couple of male clients - though neither were remotely attractive. She did say though, that trainers date their clients all the time. She now operates independently and has only women clients.

I do know, however, that people do get very attached to their trainers. There are a couple of women who have told my wife they wouldn't know what to do without her. 

My suggestion is that you talk to the dude - be cool about it but tell him man to man that you don't like the way he looks at your wife, and ask him if there is more going on. A real professional trainer would apologize, tell you there is nothing going on, and then bend over backwards to prove it going forward. A trainer with an "agenda" will get really defensive and deny everything in a confrontational way. I think you'll get your answer after have a grown up talk with him about it.


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## okeydokie

Gabriel said:


> My wife is a personal trainer. First it was at a gym where she had a couple of male clients - though neither were remotely attractive. She did say though, that trainers date their clients all the time. She now operates independently and has only women clients.
> 
> I do know, however, that people do get very attached to their trainers. There are a couple of women who have told my wife they wouldn't know what to do without her.
> 
> My suggestion is that you talk to the dude - be cool about it but tell him man to man that you don't like the way he looks at your wife, and ask him if there is more going on. A real professional trainer would apologize, tell you there is nothing going on, and then bend over backwards to prove it going forward. A trainer with an "agenda" will get really defensive and deny everything in a confrontational way. I think you'll get your answer after have a grown up talk with him about it.


the dude is 6' 4" 240 and ripped, yeah enjoy that


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## Cubby

The OP should read Athol K's blog and/or his book "Married Man Sex Life", particularly the section on "Instigation, Isolation, Escalation."

Long periods alone with another man is a terrible idea. Especially one who's muscular and attractive and horny. Even if there's nothing going on (which I doubt) the temptation's too great. You and your wife need firm boundaries. 

To get a dose of reality, google the following words: "personal trainer", "affairs", "cheating wife"


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## Cubby

okeydokie said:


> the dude is 6' 4" 240 and ripped, yeah enjoy that


Now you know why I didn't confront the guy in my story!

I wanted to, but then again I didn't want to. If you know what I mean...


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## FrankKissel

okeydokie said:


> the dude is 6' 4" 240 and ripped, yeah enjoy that


I suspect many - maybe all - of the guys whose wives cheated on them would rather deal with the pain of a beatdown than the pain of betrayal. Bruises heal a lot easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359

> During this period my wife was picking fights with me, the sex stopped, she was protective of her phone, she told me I needed to lift weights more, didn't talk to me a lot, accused me of cheating etc. I told her expressed concern that our marriage wasn't going well, that I felt like I was single, but she assured me that everything was fine.


The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer. 

Maybe people aren't too smart--but if I were in an affair (which I haven't been) and my partner started getting suspicious, I'd do whatever I could to throw him off the trail. Being brazen is just asking for someone to dig deeper--which the OP is likely to do, since he doesn't trust his wife, anyway.

The trust is broken, so the marriage is broken. He needs to address that.


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## Entropy3000

I need to read all the way through posts. My bad.

I just caught onto the "private workouts".

What exactly is a private workout? Are you saying she goes to this guys home to workout? NFW!!!

Holy crappola when did you sign her up for that? A year of "private" workouts. This is stud service.


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## MominMayberry

Private workouts at my gym are called just that but they are in a gym with about 300 people so don't get hung up on that term.
The poster hasn't been back to answer so none of us know what's going on.


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## Cubby

MominMayberry said:


> Private workouts at my gym are called just that but they are in a gym with about 300 people so don't get hung up on that term.
> The poster hasn't been back to answer so none of us know what's going on.


Even though there are also 300 people there, the trainer and client are still together, getting to know each other, doing something intense together, he's probably touching her in the context of the workout, they might share private thoughts....all these things break down barriers, which can lead to intimacy. Of course they wouldn't be having sex AT the gym, but it's a situation that can set the table for sex somewhere else.


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## Cubby

I just want to add that I'm not sure anything's going on. But the OP needs to dig to find out. He also needs to squash the training arrangement now, even if nothing's going on currently. Boundaries.


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## Gabriel

Cubby said:


> Now you know why I didn't confront the guy in my story!
> 
> I wanted to, but then again I didn't want to. If you know what I mean...



I didn't think we lived in neanderthal times. I would have no issue coming at him and saying, "Hey, can I talk with you a minute? Look, I know you've been training my wife a long time now, but I've noticed you are looking at her like you want to be more than her trainer. Am I right?"

If the guy hauls off and hits you, seriously, you know he is interested in your wife, and you get to press charges. And you get to wreck this guy's personal training business. My guess is he will try to shrug it off and be evasive about it. But you'll be able to tell a lot from his reaction. Don't go in scared, or it will have no effect.


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## Entropy3000

He should not go to his wife's personal trainer to determine if they are having sex. He should have never accepted this to happen. If either of them had proper boundaries this would not have happened.

IF this is totally innocent which it highly likely is not, it is still inappropriate. I think it inappropriate even if it is over at LA Fitness in the afternoon. These guys will setup lunch dates with the ladies and / or dinner to chat with them.

What is a private workout? Is it at LA Fitness with a trainer one on one which is normal as opposed to a group? Or is it something else?

Realize to the trainer of a certain type who is making in most cases much less money than the woman's husband she is just sex on the side. He does it because he can. He is taking another man's wife who values him over her husband. He does it becasue this regular sex keeps her as steady income. He services her and meets her needs in this way as a way of keeping her as a client. There are plenty of hot mature women who these guys would enjoy having sex with. A woman who is in a tired relationship can be very sexual with her new lover. Her husband has to meet a big chunk of her needs but this guy can meet the romantic, passionate and wild sex side of her. No doubt she feels powerful but the trainer is telling her things that only her husband should be. Even when innocent a male trainers comments are a huge attention boost.

I am not saying most personal trainers are like this but many could if they wanted to.

So far there has been one post from the OP.


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## Gabriel

Entropy3000 said:


> He should not go to his wife's personal trainer to determine if they are having sex. He should have never accepted this to happen. If either of them had proper boundaries this would not have happened.
> 
> 
> _Entropy - he already went to his wife and got nowhere. It's eating him alive. He either lives with her response and lets it eat at him, or he goes another route - that was the reason for my suggestion._
> So far there has been one post from the OP.
> 
> _Yeah - he might not be back_


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## AFEH

sisters359 said:


> The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer.
> 
> Maybe people aren't too smart--but if I were in an affair (which I haven't been) and my partner started getting suspicious, I'd do whatever I could to throw him off the trail. Being brazen is just asking for someone to dig deeper--which the OP is likely to do, since he doesn't trust his wife, anyway.
> 
> The trust is broken, so the marriage is broken. He needs to address that.


Correction. She needs to address it.


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## Cubby

Entropy3000 said:


> He should not go to his wife's personal trainer to determine if they are having sex. He should have never accepted this to happen. If either of them had proper boundaries this would not have happened.
> 
> IF this is totally innocent which it highly likely is not, it is still inappropriate. I think it inappropriate even if it is over at LA Fitness in the afternoon. These guys will setup lunch dates with the ladies and / or dinner to chat with them.
> 
> What is a private workout? Is it at LA Fitness with a trainer one on one which is normal as opposed to a group? Or is it something else?
> 
> Realize to the trainer of a certain type who is making in most cases much less money than the woman's husband she is just sex on the side. He does it because he can. He is taking another man's wife who values him over her husband. He does it becasue this regular sex keeps her as steady income. He services her and meets her needs in this way as a way of keeping her as a client. There are plenty of hot mature women who these guys would enjoy having sex with. A woman who is in a tired relationship can be very sexual with her new lover. Her husband has to meet a big chunk of her needs but this guy can meet the romantic, passionate and wild sex side of her. No doubt she feels powerful but the trainer is telling her things that only her husband should be. Even when innocent a male trainers comments are a huge attention boost.
> 
> I am not saying most personal trainers are like this but many could if they wanted to.
> 
> So far there has been one post from the OP.


Inappropriate is the correct word. The personal trainer who was chasing my wife kept pushing to have drinks together. She told me he knew all the buttons to push. She enjoyed the compliments he gave her. He targeted the older, yet still hot married woman knowing there's a good chance she'll enjoy some flirty, sassy talk. Along with a strong desire to stay fit as she gets older, the trainer knows who to focus on.


----------



## Good Dog

Entropy3000 said:


> Not a believer in opposite sex trainers. So if my wife said she was getting a new trainer I would ask about them for a number of reasons. Mostly from a training perspective. But my wife would know that going in that a male PT is a non starter.
> 
> Personal trainers are in too good a position to provide attention to a woman IMHO. While not painting all with a broad brush most are not very professional. It is often a temporary job for them. It is a great place to pickup women. There are for sure serious personal trainers. But they are in the severe minority.
> 
> Is your wife a competitive athlete? If so a personal trainer is important. I still think it would be risky but this matters.
> 
> Why you waited a year I have no idea.
> 
> If she protests to much that is a red flag. That said you waited a year. That makes this very tough. You will be called jealous, controlling and insecure. Let those roll off your back. They do not matter at all.
> 
> So you are left with telling her you are uncomfortable with this guiy. If she chooses to keep him anyway then you know where you stand in your marriage. A distant second to some guy at the gym.
> 
> No doubt there is more going on in your marriage than this.
> 
> ------
> 
> Not a PT story but a few weeks back a friend's wife posted the following on her facebook while she was having a massage:
> 
> I think the young guy massaging my thighs right now is enjoying this as much as I am!!!  I think I will give him an extra tip. LOL.
> 
> The above was part of a few posts from her spa visit.
> 
> Anyway that post was removed later in the day. Her husband is a very fit guy but he is likely double the age of the massage guy. This was innocent fun I am sure BUT, she got some interesting comments on her post. I refrained from comment.


I want to agree with this. I'd never thought about it but my wife has had plenty of issues with opposite sex trainers. Plenty of them are unprofessional and a few blatantly hit on her and had her doing unnecessary things for this reason. I've never told her not to go to one but that's mostly because she got sick of it herself. 

To the OP, if your wife is doing something that makes you uncomfortable, you have every right to put appropriate boundaries in place.


----------



## Toffer

Originally Posted by sisters359 
The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer. 

Sisters, did you miss the part of the original post where the OP said the wife would choose the trainer over the marriage?


----------



## Jonesey

Toffer said:


> Originally Posted by sisters359
> The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer.
> 
> Sisters, did you miss the part of the original post where the OP said the wife would choose the trainer over the marriage?


Dont bother to ask..Sister´s response is typical.
When a husband post a scenario like this..

The always,give this JADA JADA BLAH BLAH response..
You know women is never out of line..Dident you know that?


----------



## In_The_Wind

Cubby said:


> Now you know why I didn't confront the guy in my story!
> 
> I wanted to, but then again I didn't want to. If you know what I mean...


Smith & Wesson the great equalizer as they say


----------



## Minncouple

Ok man, not rtrying to freak you out, but I have been around the bodybuilding world for quite some time. I'll fill you in.

First, I am not a trainer, but know dozens of very fit young and old trainers who train milf's and cougars all the time. Some are competing in figure or bikini and some are just splain fitness freaks.

Most of the guy trainers I know are banging half of thier married clients. They joke about the fat clueless husbands and that pay the bills and they are banging thier wives all the time. 

Someting about a young fit guy, that gets a women inshape, it simply wins the ladies over everytime. They are like gods to these ladies. I laugh at it, but its pretty sad what they tell me.


----------



## okeydokie

Minncouple said:


> Ok man, not rtrying to freak you out, but I have been around the bodybuilding world for quite some time. I'll fill you in.
> 
> First, I am not a trainer, but know dozens of very fit young and old trainers who train milf's and cougars all the time. Some are competing in figure or bikini and some are just splain fitness freaks.
> 
> Most of the guy trainers I know are banging half of thier married clients. They joke about the fat clueless husbands and that pay the bills and they are banging thier wives all the time.
> 
> Someting about a young fit guy, that gets a women inshape, it simply wins the ladies over everytime. They are like gods to these ladies. I laugh at it, but its pretty sad what they tell me.


i believe ya


----------



## Entropy3000

sisters359 said:


> I would like to point out the OP said nothing to indicate his wife was in any way misbehaving--her "behavior" does not seem to bear reproach. The PT is ogling her, and that makes the OP uncomfortable.
> 
> The problem with men demanding that their wives "do what they say" in this situation is that it is the beginning edge of a very steep and slippery slope. Just how much, exactly, does a woman have to do to AVOID being the object of another man's attention?
> 
> Do men simply not realize that women will NOT be attracted to every hot looking guy who steps by? Do they not accept that a 49 year old woman might see a 25 year old--who is a good trainer--as a little puppy dog? Puppy dogs make one feel good, but not in a remotely sexual or romantic way!
> 
> To "give in" to a man's unjust suspicions feels just wrong--it seems to be an agreement, "Yeah, I should stop b/c you do have something to worry about," when there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
> 
> Of course I can be totally wrong--I know there are women out there who will sleep with their sexy trainer. But if there is no trust in the marriage, it's broken--so if she quits the trainer, they still need counseling--the problem is much bigger than who her trainer is.
> 
> And fyi, if a woman is going to the mattresses on this, it may well be because her self-respect is at issue--not some sexy trainer she could sneek around to see if she really wanted to continue to have sex with him. Heck, the willingess to stop seeing him would make me more suspicious than the unwillingess.


My marriage is give and take. I "give in" to my wife's conerns and I expect her to "give in" to mine. But then again I am worth it. Maybe some husbands are not. YMMV. I never would have accepted the situation this guy is in. A male personal trainer is one thing, but it is absolutley off the charts to accept a wife having "private" training, whatever that is. Perhaps what is meant by private is not in a group. But actual private training GTFO.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cubby said:


> I've been lurking on this board for quite a while and getting a great education here from the regular posters. I saw this post and had to register to tell my story about a personal trainer and my wife.
> 
> Several months ago, my 47 year old wife, who is very attractive and fit, came home from the gym and told me she was approached by one of the trainers who was trying to sell her on being trained by him. He told her she's hot but he can get her even hotter, cutting her fat percentage in half, or something like that. I could tell she enjoyed the attention he was giving her. He happens be one of those huge, muscular guys, about 6-4 240 and 29 years old. He resembles an NFL tight end.
> 
> She was pretty excited about doing this, but I had reservations. At this time, I was very ignorant about boundaries and I remember thinking I didn't want to come off as "controlling" or "insecure." So my objection to it was more on the grounds of the cost, at least that's what I told my wife. She said the trainer offered to give her a free introductory session which I agreed to, even though I wasn't happy about it.
> 
> To set up the session, she had to get his phone number. After that, she didn't talk about him much and finally they did the intoductory session after a few weeks. After that, the trainer wanted to talk to me (since I controlled the finances) about setting up regular sessions for her. I told him it was too expensive.
> 
> During this period my wife was picking fights with me, the sex stopped, she was protective of her phone, she told me I needed to lift weights more, didn't talk to me a lot, accused me of cheating etc. I told her expressed concern that our marriage wasn't going well, that I felt like I was single, but she assured me that everything was fine. Like an idiot, I didn't connect the dots thinking the trainer might have something to do with this strange behavior until one day she approached me that maybe we should consider having an open marriage. While that was shocking to me, I should point out that we've talked about bringing a girl into the bedroom but have never acted on that, so mild swinging-type behavior has been discussed before, but more as fantasy stuff. So the request didn't come completely out of the blue.
> 
> After I told her I wasn't interested in that, I became suspicious. I asked her who she had in mind which she replied, "the trainer." She then told me that he told her he was "god's gift to women" and that he had "10 inches." She said he was trying to get her to have sex with her, but she said she couldn't because she's married. (I have always told her if she ever cheated, we're finished.) He told her all the trainers were having sex with their clients. I asked her if she slept with him, which she denied. I then asked her if they've been talking on the phone or texting. She denied that also.
> 
> The open marriage request was troubling to me so I googled for info and found this forum. A big thank you to the regular posters here! I looked into the phone records and found several long conversations and about 200 text messages over a 2 month period. It wasn't nearly as bad as some of the infidelity stories I've heard here, but still very alarming and hurtful to me. The big thought I had was "I can't believe she would ever do this to me." It turned out that the calls and texts stopped about the same time that I told the trainer we wouldn't be paying him to train my wife. In my opinion for him, it was more about the money than sex. Although he wanted sex also, but didn't want to waste his time if he wasn't getting paid. I also found a piece of paper which she labeled "Crazy talk with ____" She listed lots of things they talked about, including him trying to get into her pants. She then listed possible reasons why he wasn't talking to her anymore. It was obvious she wasn't happy about him not talking to her and also it looked like it didn't go physical. I know, I might be naive about this, but I'm trying to base this on known facts.
> 
> After learning about "manning up" and being alpha, and not being a doormat, and chemical addictions to EAs and PAs, I confronted my wife about the phone calls and texts and tried to determine if the EA had gone physical. I firmly told her I would never tolerate any more lies. I told her that if she wants to pursue an open marriage arrangement then I would divorce her immediately. Before I threatened divorce, I had to convince myself that I would be okay if it came to that. Yes, it would be devastating, but I would survive. The confrontation was done in a strong, alpha male way. No crying, no begging on my part. She tried to explain her reasons (attention from a hot young guy was appealing to an older married woman) but admitted it was wrong and showed genuine remorse along with tears.
> 
> After that, we had a thorough discussion on boundaries and transparency and passwords, etc., which was sorely missing, and agreed it isn't a good idea for her to exercise by herself. We now work out together nearly every day and spend the recommended 10-15 hours together. No more talk about a 3rd or 4th person in the bedroom. It truly feels like a new beginning.
> 
> To the OP, my message to you is "BEWARE THE PERSONAL TRAINER!"
> 
> Also, don't be afraid to be a man and demand that the training arrangement stop. You have to get to a place where you're not afraid of divorce, if it comes to that. I'll bet she doesn't respect you because you're letting a another man train her.


It is very hard for me to believe they had not been physical since she asked for an open marriage. I guess my boundaries are very strict. My wife asking for an open marriage at all would be a deal breaker. If she went that far to ask for it I would be done. Add to that that she had someone picked out. So your wife was all excited about a guy who claims to have ten inches. I think the whole thing is incredibly disrespectful to you.

I would have confronted the guy for approaching my wife like this. How does the ten inch c0ck come up in a conversation at all? 

My wife would not be going to that gym any longer if I did decide to reconsile.

But the take away here is that yes, many of the trainers have these women in their sites. 

I train much of the week at the house. I often go to the gym for squat day. I usually run the personal trainers off by just slapping weight on the bar. The gym can be a place to hookup. Also you have the guys who are not personal trainers but approach the women and volunteer to "train" them for free.

No point in taking that "free" first training if you do not intend to hire the trainer in my opinion no matter who they are.

When a guy says he does not want to come off as controlling or insecure I want to reach out and slap him. Seriously.


----------



## that_girl

I would bet that this is her boyfriend.

And you're footin' the bill.


----------



## Sanity

I've been working out for a few years and in my years at the gym I can tell you from personal experiences that most male personal trainers are dogs and will actively try to bed attractive clients especially if the client is bored with her marriage.

Do a Google search for the phrase "Confessions of a male personal trainer". 

Some of the things I saw at the gym I went to disgusted me as I would see the trainers train women and touch them innapriopiately under the guise of "proper form". Next thing you know they are making out in the parking lot or leaving in the same car.


----------



## Sanity

joeydinap said:


> Need some help guys, my 49 year old wife has a 25 year stud trainer who looks at her with passion in his eyes. he won't even look at me or even say hello to me. this has been going on for over a year. she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side. She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.
> 
> Am I overly sensitive or a fool


Man up brother and call her one it. Tell her you won't accept her working out with a male trainer period.


----------



## sisters359

Entropy3000 said:


> It is very hard for me to believe they had not been physical since she asked for an open marriage..


If this information was in the original post, it would have changed my answer.

And people need to stop assuming that my post was gender-biased. It wasn't--look at it. I specifically responded to the information he gave, and gave the point of view that I know I share with other women--when you accuse me without any reason (other than the way some man behaves around me) you are insulting me beyond belief. If *my* behavior is not the cause of your concern, then why would you ask me to change? Men's insecurities over female sexuality is the root of the oppression of women--and women know that. It's insulting to have someone suspect us when we have done nothing to merit that suspicion. 

If, on the other hand, the OP gave reasons about his wife's behavior that meant he had reason to be suspicious--then he has a right to move forward. I don't know any gym that has a "private work out room," so I, like many others, go with the traditional meaning of "private workout sessions" which is one-on-one in a public place. 

Some of you need to be more critical readers--you really do not take into account what has actually been SAID in an OP or what has NOT been said in a response.


----------



## Toffer

Sisters,
You still didn't answer this question about this particular thread:

Originally Posted by sisters359 
The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer. 

Sisters, did you miss the part of the original post where the OP said the wife would choose the trainer over the marriage?


----------



## Cubby

Entropy3000 said:


> It is very hard for me to believe they had not been physical since she asked for an open marriage. I guess my boundaries are very strict. My wife asking for an open marriage at all would be a deal breaker. If she went that far to ask for it I would be done. Add to that that she had someone picked out. So your wife was all excited about a guy who claims to have ten inches. I think the whole thing is incredibly disrespectful to you.
> 
> I would have confronted the guy for approaching my wife like this. How does the ten inch c0ck come up in a conversation at all?
> 
> My wife would not be going to that gym any longer if I did decide to reconsile.
> 
> But the take away here is that yes, many of the trainers have these women in their sites.
> 
> I train much of the week at the house. I often go to the gym for squat day. I usually run the personal trainers off by just slapping weight on the bar. The gym can be a place to hookup. Also you have the guys who are not personal trainers but approach the women and volunteer to "train" them for free.
> 
> No point in taking that "free" first training if you do not intend to hire the trainer in my opinion no matter who they are.
> 
> When a guy says he does not want to come off as controlling or insecure I want to reach out and slap him. Seriously.


All great points. You're a great asset to this board. You and others have helped me a great deal. In the past I used to hear that marriage takes a lot of work but kind of scoffed at that.

My wife and I started with a great marriage but it started to run off the rails. I didn't know how to get it back until I read this forum.

There's certainly a chance it went physical. But there are reasons I don't think it did. (part of me still wonders) The phone calls are during an 18 day period. There were 3 long conversations (31 minutes to 58 minutes, and one 10 minute conversation)The texts are for 2 months though. That's the period when the pitch for the training sessions started and the calls and texts stopped when I said NO to the regular training sessions. After that, zero calls and texts. I didn't confront her until 2 months after the last call and text. She told me he didn't speak to her at all after he got the NO decision on the training. She has been adament over and over that it never went physical. She says she was never alone with him at any time. Only talked to him at the gym and on the phone. They're not even facebook friends. I know, there's a chance she's lying. At some point we have to move on...

As I mentioned, before and during this time we talked about swinging crap and watched a lot of porn. More like 'what if' stuff. This talk had a big role in loosening any boundaries. And speaking of boundaries, we never talked about that. We were utterly clueless. So when she brought up open marriage, I at least partly attributed it to our fantasy talk.

When he approached my wife and gave her compliments, she said "listen, I'm old enough to be your mom, why are you talking to me?" He then told her how he's been with older women before and he's god's gift to women and then the 10 inch stuff. She told him she's married but if she weren't then the "sky's the limit." I'm sure that comment gave the trainer the green light to pursue. At this time wife knew that physically cheating would result in divorce. She didn't even know what an EA was. She thought she could talk about anything to anyone and it would be fine as long as it doesn't go physical. Again, no boundaries were ever discussed. 

(I'm going to add something that might add to the picture that many here might shriek, "Racism!!!", but the trainer is a black man, and from my experience, with black friends and teammates from competing in sports, a lot of black guys are very aggressive about flirting with women. Just my observation.) 

My wife should've shut him down right there on the spot. Her behavior was very, very inappropriate and very disrespectful. My wife and I have been through this over and over with long discussions on boundaries and she says she's deeply ashamed and was embarrassed to go to the gym again. She wanted to quit the gym, but we agreed she would only go with me. Shortly afterwards the trainer left anyway. Maybe fired. I don't know.

As for confronting him, I thought long and hard about that. Since we have kids, I didn't want to end up dead or hurt badly. I'm no wimp, but this guy is more muscular than anyone I've ever seen. Instead I focused on my wife.

Another factor in me thinking it didn't go physical is the piece of paper I found in her purse listing the things they talked about. It mentioned his frustration that she won't go physical. She also listed reasons why he won't talk to her anymore. One was that maybe he found a girlfriend. Another was that maybe he got tired of the cat and mouse game. Another was he just wanted money to train her. And by the way, she was deeply ashamed and embarrassed that I found that paper. Yes she was in the dopamine fog.

Based on the phone calls stopping and the paper I found, it was obvious to me they weren't communicating and that it stopped abruptly. But she did bring up the open marriage once after communication stopped. I think she was going through withdrawal from the fog. She brought it up when she was drinking wine.

She knows that if the open marriage thing is brought up again, our marriage is over. I didn't end it at the time because we have too much at stake. (kids) We had no boundaries then, now we do. I shudder to think how stupid I was before, worried about being controlling and insecure. It's all so clear to me now. 

And I can't stress enough how my wife responded positively to me being firm and confident in my demands. Worrying about being controlling and insecure made my wife disrespect me. That's why the OP in his situation needs to take control and stop the training arrangement.


----------



## Entropy3000

sisters359 said:


> If this information was in the original post, it would have changed my answer.
> 
> And people need to stop assuming that my post was gender-biased. It wasn't--look at it. I specifically responded to the information he gave, and gave the point of view that I know I share with other women--when you accuse me without any reason (other than the way some man behaves around me) you are insulting me beyond belief. If *my* behavior is not the cause of your concern, then why would you ask me to change? *Men's insecurities over female sexuality is the root of the oppression of women*--and women know that. It's insulting to have someone suspect us when we have done nothing to merit that suspicion.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the OP gave reasons about his wife's behavior that meant he had reason to be suspicious--then he has a right to move forward. I don't know any gym that has a "private work out room," so I, like many others, go with the traditional meaning of "private workout sessions" which is one-on-one in a public place.
> 
> Some of you need to be more critical readers--you really do not take into account what has actually been SAID in an OP or what has NOT been said in a response.


Well I am critical enough to know that the OP is not the one who posted about the open marriage. That was another poster.

I never questioned you about gender. That was someone else. So if you are replying to me then that is very curious. 

My point to you was that whoever is crossing boundaries should respect the other. You chose to read something in my post that was not there from me.

The OP indicated that his wife was willing to divorce him over not giving up her male personal trainer. Somehow you defended that. Who knows why?

So lets reverse this. Look at the OP and switch the gender. Only you can tell whether you would or would not have said the man should not give in to his wifes concerns over the female hottie who gives her husband private training sessions. A hottie that would not look her in the eye and who gives off the wrong vibe.

Many of us who are gym rats feel the male personal trainers in particular are a big risk for a married woman and that her husband has every right to object and insist she not do this. Who knows why he put up with this situation for a year.

It was another poster who accussed you of gender bias. I am not . I have no idea what you based your comments on. You have a right to them but you did defend the stance the woman took in the OP. 

Many men however would not put up with this and I can only assume many women would seem the same way. 

BUT I do think there is a gender specific thing going on here:

In general female personal trainers are not going to be predatory and be banging half of their male clients, especially the married ones. Male personal trainers specialize in the married women. Like the old golf pros and tennis instructors of the past. The Gigolo type. So the men are out to bang as many of the goodlooking women as they can. Not all but don't be surprised if it is most. So for a husband to know that many of these trainers are out to bang thier female clients why in the world would a husband allow this? Yes I said allow.

I am sorry you feel oppressed by men. Maybe that finds its way into your comments.


----------



## sisters359

Toffer said:


> Sisters,
> You still didn't answer this question about this particular thread:
> 
> Originally Posted by sisters359
> The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer.
> 
> Sisters, did you miss the part of the original post where the OP said the wife would choose the trainer over the marriage?


Yes, I did. He gave no evidence that she was acting suspicious in anyway. But then he still demanded she change trainers. In other words, there is NO evidence (from her behavior) in the OP that he *should have* suspected her and demanded she change trainers. 

I've given a different point of view on why-- AFTER he demanded she stop with the trainer w/o her having given him a reason to make such a demand--she would refuse to act like a guilty person. The two things are separate. Logically, you cannot claim that her refusal to change is "cause" of his suspicion when there was NO cause before he made the demand; capice? 

But, if he has since added information that she wanted an open marriage, that changes things. Kind of a funny thing to have left out of the original post, though. Huge red flag.


----------



## sisters359

Entropy3000 said:


> Well I am critical enough to know that the OP is not the one who posted about the open marriage. That was another poster.
> 
> I never questioned you about gender. That was someone else. So if you are replying to me then that is very curious.
> 
> My point to you was that whoever is crossing boundaries should respect the other. You chose to read something in my post that was not there from me.
> 
> The OP indicated that his wife was willing to divorce him over not giving up her male personal trainer. Somehow you defended that. Who knows why?
> 
> So lets reverse this. Look at the OP and switch the gender. Only you can tell whether you would or would not have said the man should not give in to his wifes concerns over the female hottie who gives her husband private training sessions. A hottie that would not look her in the eye and who gives off the wrong vibe.
> 
> Many of us who are gym rats feel the male personal trainers in particular are a big risk for a married woman and that her husband has every right to object and insist she not do this. Who knows why he put up with this situation for a year.
> 
> It was another poster who accussed you of gender bias. I am not . I have no idea what you based your comments on. You have a right to them but you did defend the stance the woman took in the OP.
> 
> Many men however would not put up with this and I can only assume many women would seem the same way.
> 
> BUT I do think there is a gender specific thing going on here:
> 
> In general female personal trainers are not going to be predatory and be banging half of their male clients, especially the married ones. Male personal trainers specialize in the married women. Like the old golf pros and tennis instructors of the past. The Gigolo type. So the men are out to bang as many of the goodlooking women as they can. Not all but don't be surprised if it is most. So for a husband to know that many of these trainers are out to bang thier female clients why in the world would a husband allow this? Yes I said allow.


I haven't even read your post--or the rest, I'm simply responding to the idea that it is wrong to demand a partner make changes when it is not THEIR BEHAVIOR that makes you uneasy. 

Someone else asserted the issue about open marriage applying to the OP--I, unfortunately, gave that person credit for having expressed things accurately. My bad.


----------



## sisters359

Browncoat said:


> I hear what you're saying, but at the same rate there's a time and place to pick your battles in a marriage. This for me wouldn't be one.


But b/c of the history of women being blamed for male attention and male behavior, a lot of women will see this very differently. 

I think the trainer's behavior--being unwilling to talk to the h--is problemmatic. But the "passion in his eyes" is the interpretation of the OP.

If her behavior over one year has been beyond suspicion, then the demand now is just simply odd and not very logical. That doesn't help the OP, however--he's unhappy about it. That's why I suggested counseling, rather than irrational demands to his wife.


----------



## Jayb

sisters359 said:


> I haven't even read your post--or the rest, *I'm simply responding to the idea that it is wrong to demand a partner make changes when it is not THEIR BEHAVIOR that makes you uneasy*.
> 
> Someone else asserted the issue about open marriage applying to the OP--I, unfortunately, gave that person credit for having expressed things accurately. My bad.



I think I understand your argument. If my wife and I went to the gym and she wanted a personal trainer and I said, sure. then, the trainer turned out to be channing tatum (or whomever), my insecurities would flame me. It would have nothing to do with my wife's attitude or actions. Even if I watched the 2 of them together, and things were legit, I'd still feel pressure.

So, you're saying that my requests to my wife to change trainers (out of MY insecurities) would not be fair and trusting to my wife, who has done nothing wrong.

That being said, to me, as a male, I would feel uncomfortable with this situation. I would tell my wife. To me, it's along the lines of sending an alcoholic to happy hour. The temptation would be extreme. And, granted, nothing overt may occur, but a seed may be planted. My wife may begin to fantasize about this trainer, or lap up the attention, when the purpose should strictly be on shape/performance improvement.

I would admit my insecurity, especially with the knowledge of how male PT's operate (generalization). And ask that she compromise. Much like I would compromise at some of her desires.


----------



## Entropy3000

sisters359 said:


> I haven't even read your post--or the rest, I'm simply responding to the idea that it is wrong to demand a partner make changes when it is not THEIR BEHAVIOR that makes you uneasy.
> 
> Someone else asserted the issue about open marriage applying to the OP--I, unfortunately, gave that person credit for having expressed things accurately. My bad.


We disagree. That is fine. Her choice of a male personal trainer was bad behavior in my opinion. She put herself in a very risky situation. That IS behavior. Just because she can be cool is no reason for the husband to take none of the PTs behavior as a red flag.

Marriage is not a court of law. You do not have to have DNA evidence of a problem to know a bad situation. In my opinion again, she is showing disrespect to her husband by refusing to give up the personal trainer. I guess it depends on the type of marriage one has. If it was just her BF objecting then fine. We are talking about her husband. She is disrespecting him.

She should never have engaged this PT in the first place. Shame on her husband for putting up with it. I guess he was like some of those other guys who did not want to oppress his wife and be seen as jealous, insecure and controlling.

The points many of are making is that the PT guy hitting on the married women is a VERY common thing.

I actually do think a man who puts up with this displays low value to his wife for by being dominated by the PT. The PT is laughing at the weak husband.

If a husband and wife have to play the gender war they have already lost.

To me paying a male trainer like we are talking about is paying for a guy to date your wife. You can call it insecure and that is fine. I am too secure to care. I am not comfortable however with letting a guy hit on my wife, pour attention on her, in a physical setting like this. A stud like this acting as a coach is a very powerful male model for her. He gets to meet many of her needs that I should be meeting. The fun ones I might add. The ones that induce the dopamine. It really is a fantasy situation. All he has to do is keep filling her love bank and eventually she will have a vulnerable moment. Practice makes perfect. he know what buttons to push and what gets him in bed with her. Some of these guys look at themselves as players / gigolos.

FWIW my EA was with a 25 year old highly intelligent hottie. I was the Alpha Male Of the Group. We started meeting each others needs. I was not even a predator. Not intentionally. But it felt great with the attention and admiration I got from her. Very powerful stuff. I know now I was doing the same thing.

So take that and move it to the gym where the PT is trying to nail the women. She loves the attention. Her mistake was putting herself in that situation. That is at least inappropriate and if she had a brain it was out and out unfaithful. I keep hearing women are not stupid. I believe that. So I see this choice of hers as being unfaithful from the get go. 

But we disagree and that is fine.


----------



## MominMayberry

Why is everybody getting up in arms responding to this guy? He hasn't come back to explain or answer. It seems like this was a hood wink job to get everybody upset.


----------



## sisters359

MominMayberry said:


> Why is everybody getting up in arms responding to this guy? He hasn't come back to explain or answer. It seems like this was a hood wink job to get everybody upset.


I just think it is very useful to see how men and women can respond so differently to a given situation.

It seems a lot of men are always going to be uncomfortable when they think their wife is attractive to another man (well, except for those guys who get their kinks that way, which is fine). 

The question I am focusing on is, what responsibility do women/wives bear for that?

If I have been a loving and faithful wife, who has established my integrity by doing the right thing by my husband over the course of our marriage, I'd be insulted by the implication that somehow I'm suspect now because another man finds me attractive. I suspect that if I was the one really in this situation, I would hold my ground until my h admitted it was simply his own insecurities and said he would work on them--I would need to see him "clear my name" in his own head, so to speak. But then I'd probably change trainers. I'm not sure--I might actually just change in the first place (not likely, but possible). I just know that the mere request and suspicion would create a big breach and changing trainers would not be the actual solution to breaching the gap so created. Knowing me, I might agree to change trainers on the condition that we start marriage counseling--b/c I'd be seriously questioning this other person's commitment to me, and it would tarnish him in my eyes. In other words, being accused of wrongdoing when there is no empirical evidence for it--and tons of evidence to the contrary--would CREATE damage to the marriage that hadn't existed before. 

I'm only one woman, though. I'm sure other women have different ways of seeing it.


----------



## Jayb

sisters359 said:


> I just think it is very useful to see how men and women can respond so differently to a given situation.
> 
> It seems a lot of men are always going to be uncomfortable when they think their wife is attractive to another man (well, except for those guys who get their kinks that way, which is fine).
> 
> The question I am focusing on is, what responsibility do women/wives bear for that?
> 
> If I have been a loving and faithful wife, who has established my integrity by doing the right thing by my husband over the course of our marriage, I'd be insulted by the implication that somehow I'm suspect now because another man finds me attractive. I suspect that if I was the one really in this situation, I would hold my ground until my h admitted it was simply his own insecurities and said he would work on them--I would need to see him "clear my name" in his own head, so to speak. But then I'd probably change trainers. I'm not sure--I might actually just change in the first place (not likely, but possible). I just know that the mere request and suspicion would create a big breach and changing trainers would not be the actual solution to breaching the gap so created. Knowing me, I might agree to change trainers on the condition that we start marriage counseling--b/c I'd be seriously questioning this other person's commitment to me, and it would tarnish him in my eyes. In other words, being accused of wrongdoing when there is no empirical evidence for it--and tons of evidence to the contrary--would CREATE damage to the marriage that hadn't existed before.
> 
> I'm only one woman, though. I'm sure other women have different ways of seeing it.


I'd see it more of preventing the Trainer from making his moves, at first. It's his motives, actions I'd want to limit and monitor.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cubby said:


> Even though there are also 300 people there, the trainer and client are still together, getting to know each other, doing something intense together, he's probably touching her in the context of the workout, they might share private thoughts....all these things break down barriers, which can lead to intimacy. Of course they wouldn't be having sex AT the gym, but it's a situation that can set the table for sex somewhere else.


It is basically a PUA situation. The situation allows for some boundaries to already be down.

Like:

They alread have contact with one another outside the gym. It is there is needed.

He is allowed to touch her in ways other men cannot. 

He is supposed to coach and encourge her. tell her she looks great or hot. This can escalate quickly.

She may confide in her trainer beyond doing hip thrusts with the barbell. Complain about her husband. She may make comments about him on how much better in shape he is than her husband. This gives him a shot at the next incremental level of the seduction.

Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.

All of this fixed by having a female personal trainer. Sure she can flirt with the other guys at the gym but that is not a relationship like the trainer.


----------



## MominMayberry

Sisters,
I agree. I found the responses to be ridculous. I work out at a gym and see what happens. Most of the time it is in a crowded area and the personal training goes on in that space. I have a trainer once a week after work. He is younger and good looking but he is a professional and that is it. I hired him to help me. I don't imagine myself with him or cheat on my husband. I hired him because he is great at what he does and motivated me to become a better person. I also trust him. If my husband had an issue with that, I would question why.


----------



## Kobo

sisters359 said:


> I just think it is very useful to see how men and women can respond so differently to a given situation.
> 
> It seems a lot of men are always going to be uncomfortable when they think their wife is attractive to another man (well, except for those guys who get their kinks that way, which is fine).
> 
> The question I am focusing on is, what responsibility do women/wives bear for that?
> 
> If I have been a loving and faithful wife, who has established my integrity by doing the right thing by my husband over the course of our marriage, I'd be insulted by the implication that somehow I'm suspect now because another man finds me attractive. I suspect that if I was the one really in this situation, I would hold my ground until my h admitted it was simply his own insecurities and said he would work on them--I would need to see him "clear my name" in his own head, so to speak. But then I'd probably change trainers. I'm not sure--I might actually just change in the first place (not likely, but possible). I just know that the mere request and suspicion would create a big breach and changing trainers would not be the actual solution to breaching the gap so created. Knowing me, I might agree to change trainers on the condition that we start marriage counseling--b/c I'd be seriously questioning this other person's commitment to me, and it would tarnish him in my eyes. In other words, being accused of wrongdoing when there is no empirical evidence for it--and tons of evidence to the contrary--would CREATE damage to the marriage that hadn't existed before.
> 
> I'm only one woman, though. I'm sure other women have different ways of seeing it.



There is no accusation of wrong doing:

*she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side.*
Nothing more than a spouse taking preventative steps. Same as spouse who notices a co-worker paying too much attention to their partner. Nothing wrong with asking them to take steps to prevent an escalation. The fact that you need to "hold your ground" in this type of situation is silly. Marriage isn't war and your basically defending the honor of the personal trainer as he is the only one accused of wrong doing. So is the personal trainer's integrity worth the stress on your marriage? It wouldn't be in my case. The OP didn't even say he was against her having a male PT he has issues with this specific trainer. BTW, Women aren't the only ones with intuition.


----------



## TBT

sisters359 said:


> I just think it is very useful to see how men and women can respond so differently to a given situation.
> 
> It seems a lot of men are always going to be uncomfortable when they think their wife is attractive to another man (well, except for those guys who get their kinks that way, which is fine).
> 
> The question I am focusing on is, what responsibility do women/wives bear for that?
> 
> If I have been a loving and faithful wife, who has established my integrity by doing the right thing by my husband over the course of our marriage, I'd be insulted by the implication that somehow I'm suspect now because another man finds me attractive. I suspect that if I was the one really in this situation, I would hold my ground until my h admitted it was simply his own insecurities and said he would work on them--I would need to see him "clear my name" in his own head, so to speak. But then I'd probably change trainers. I'm not sure--I might actually just change in the first place (not likely, but possible). I just know that the mere request and suspicion would create a big breach and changing trainers would not be the actual solution to breaching the gap so created. Knowing me, I might agree to change trainers on the condition that we start marriage counseling--b/c I'd be seriously questioning this other person's commitment to me, and it would tarnish him in my eyes. In other words, being accused of wrongdoing when there is no empirical evidence for it--and tons of evidence to the contrary--would CREATE damage to the marriage that hadn't existed before.
> 
> I'm only one woman, though. I'm sure other women have different ways of seeing it.


Just curious,but do you think OP's wife may have been overboard when she put divorce on the table even if it was a reaction to her husbands insecurities?By the way,I do agree with what you're saying.Maybe the OP should have said..I love and trust you but I don't trust his intentions.To me that would have opened up a better line of communication.


----------



## MominMayberry

Entrophy,
You seem to have a wild imagination. Please stop with assuming that women are like that just because you would be with a female trainer. Its obvious how you think. 
The poster hasn't come back and appears did this as a social experiment I guess. Either way, trust matters. If you don't trust your partner, it doesn't matter if its the gym or the gas station.


----------



## Hicks

1x1 time with a male trainer is biologically tempting. There is no sense for a wife to put herself in that position no matter how pure she wants to think she is. It's not an insult to your wife's integrity to expect her not to put herself in a biologically tempting position. It's like saying I'm a great driver and my record is clean so my wife should have no problem with me driving 90MPH... Or if she asks me to slow down she is insulting my integrity and does'n't trust me...


----------



## Kobo

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> You seem to have a wild imagination. Please stop with assuming that women are like that just because you would be with a female trainer. Its obvious how you think.
> The poster hasn't come back and appears did this as a social experiment I guess. Either way, trust matters. If you don't trust your partner, it doesn't matter if its the gym or the gas station.


Why do people think trust is the end all be all? Plenty of people trusted their spouce and got cheated on. They could have prevented it with early action to go along with that trust. IMO some women are so determined to not have their actions restricted by their men that they would rather put their relationship at risk than take simple steps like getting rid of a trainer that means very little in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Acorn

I do not understand how private lessons with a personal trainer is really any different from working late nights one-on-one with an attractive co-worker.

And there are A LOT of affairs that start that way with co-workers from what I read.


----------



## In_The_Wind

When I was in college I worked as a trainer as I was a competitive body builder, I trained alot of females most were married. I was brought up to respect other mans marriages so this was not an issue for me. I had some really good clients one was the wife of a major league baseball player who would always get me tickets and stuff for the games i never asked she just found out i liked baseball. Other guys would try to hit on her and i would tell them to knock it off. Their were alot of female trainers where i worked who would go out with their clients I am sure many of them were married so it works both ways i suppose


----------



## Entropy3000

Even if we assume the guy is a total freakin idiot controlling jerk the situation the wife is in is still not good. So she is ok to go out of her way and behave badly just to rebell? 

But if we can assume he is this then we can then assume his wife has been unfaitful their whole marriage. Nothing indocates this.

He wants his wife to give up her male personal trainer.
he never should have been ok with this to beigin with.

Can we also assume he was very Beta to begin with and then wised up too late?


----------



## Entropy3000

Acorn said:


> I do not understand how private lessons with a personal trainer is really any different from working late nights one-on-one with an attractive co-worker.
> 
> And there are A LOT of affairs that start that way with co-workers from what I read.


This is how mine happened. My wife complained. I quite my job. My marriage was more important to me.

So I agree. Except that working is something we have to do. We do not get to choose the co-worker.

So it is a very different from that perspective. Plus the physical aspects and the fact that we are often dealing with a predator who is out to have sex with the women. They are not co-workers. There are aspects of personal training that make this even more risky.

I think an EA is less risky with the training from the PTs perspective. The woman is just one of so many. He is not falling in love with her. In this scenario it could be from his perspective, just the sex and keeping a client.


----------



## Good Dog

Entropy3000 said:


> Even if we assume the guy is a total freakin idiot controlling jerk the situation the wife is in is still not good. So she is ok to go out of her way and behave badly just to rebell?
> 
> But if we can assume he is this then we can then assume his wife has been unfaitful their whole marriage. Nothing indocates this.
> 
> He wants his wife to give up her male personal trainer.
> he never should have been ok with this to beigin with.
> 
> Can we also assume he was very Beta to begin with and then wised up too late?


I guess it's good to know this now--I'm learning plenty just from this thread alone. I see now it doesn't make sense for a woman to have a male trainer, though my wife's had them before. Yes, they usually hit on her. It stinks because before a couple of years ago I'd never have questioned her having a male trainer and would have assumed there wouldn't be a problem. But having a wife working in close quarters with a guy like that is a bad idea, even if she's otherwise trustworthy.


----------



## MominMayberry

Kobo,
Trust is the end all be all. Why stay with somebody you don't trust? It makes no sense. Trust is earned and lived. 
In this case if you can call it that, it seems like it rattled a bunch of nerves here. I have to wonder why anybody would stay with someone they question?


----------



## Unhappy2011

joeydinap said:


> Need some help guys, my 49 year old wife has a 25 year stud trainer who looks at her with passion in his eyes. he won't even look at me or even say hello to me. this has been going on for over a year. she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side. She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.
> 
> Am I overly sensitive or a fool


As a man, you can tell by the eyes and body language of another man who is thinking something about your woman.

Or he may just be rude and have no manners, but I would not write your suspicions off just yet.

Or he maybe averting eye contact because he is somehow intimidated by you. Maybe you look at him all angry like, whether you realize it or not?


----------



## MominMayberry

Entrophy,
My husband has a primary care doctor who is 28 and gorgeous. He has to see her often. She does a great job and takes care of him. Should I ask him to go to another doctor? Should he ask me to go to another trainer. No. Seriously?


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> Kobo,
> Trust is the end all be all. Why stay with somebody you don't trust? It makes no sense. Trust is earned and lived.
> In this case if you can call it that, it seems like it rattled a bunch of nerves here. I have to wonder why anybody would stay with someone they question?


Marriage is about love and respect. Trust can be a by product. One has to take care of the marriage. Partners have to look out for each other. It is about boundaries. Blind trust is lazy and naive IMO.

I trust my wife not to put herselt in these situations and she me.

That said, what is different here is that you and your husband agree. I am only pointing the risk.


----------



## Lon

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> My husband has a primary care doctor who is 28 and gorgeous. *He has to see her often*. She does a great job and takes care of him. Should I ask him to go to another doctor? Should he ask me to go to another trainer. No. Seriously? What is with this board and the insecurities?


I would go see my doctor a lot more if it were a gorgeous 28 year old woman.


----------



## sandc

What about trusting the husband? He sees a problem that his wife doesn't see and we're supposed to assume he is being jealous? Maybe he's just being insightful.


----------



## Acorn

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> My husband has a primary care doctor who is 28 and gorgeous. He has to see her often. She does a great job and takes care of him. Should I ask him to go to another doctor? Should he ask me to go to another trainer. No. Seriously?


In a healthy relationship, I would think you would decide whether his seeing this doctor crossed your boundaries, and he would decide if you seeing the personal trainer crossed his.


----------



## MominMayberry

Lon,
He has a condition that means he has to have his vitals checked. She is an amazing doctor and we love her. If I were to behave about her as some of the others here said, we would have fired a great doctor. The poster clearly hasn't come back and only started a post to get people to discuss. I am not refering to him. I am refering to my situation and that is that my husband has a good looking doctor and I have a good looking trainer. Why would looks be an issue? Should I have hired an ugly out of shape trainer? Should he have only gone for a male doctor? We hired the best no matter the gender. I don't understand why this matters. Makes no sense to me.


----------



## that_girl

I want Jillian Michaels. She's hot. lol.


----------



## Jayb

MominMayberry said:


> Lon,
> He has a condition that means he has to have his vitals checked. She is an amazing doctor and we love her. If I were to behave about her as some of the others here said, we would have fired a great doctor. The poster clearly hasn't come back and only started a post to get people to discuss. I am not refering to him. I am refering to my situation and that is that my husband has a good looking doctor and I have a good looking trainer. Why would looks be an issue? Should I have hired an ugly out of shape trainer? Should he have only gone for a male doctor? We hired the best no matter the gender. I don't understand why this matters. Makes no sense to me.


It's different. The relationship between doctor and patient and PT and client. And, you both like the doctor and agree. So, the 2 situations can't be compared.


----------



## Beowulf

MominMayberry said:


> Lon,
> He has a condition that means he has to have his vitals checked. She is an amazing doctor and we love her. If I were to behave about her as some of the others here said, we would have fired a great doctor. The poster clearly hasn't come back and only started a post to get people to discuss. I am not refering to him. I am refering to my situation and that is that my husband has a good looking doctor and I have a good looking trainer. Why would looks be an issue? Should I have hired an ugly out of shape trainer? Should he have only gone for a male doctor? We hired the best no matter the gender. I don't understand why this matters. Makes no sense to me.


If your husband said he wasn't comfortable with you having a male trainer and gave you a few examples of why he felt that way would you change trainers?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Comparing a medical doctor to a personal trainer at a gym doesn't really make any sense. A medical doctor is supposed to have a level of professionalism far above that of a PT. I mean really, I wouldn't have a problem with my wife seeing a male gyno. Although she sees a female one because she herself is not comfortable with a male.

A better comparison would be a husband seeing an attractive massage therapist. Or a wife for that matter. And in that case I think it's the same situation, if the other spouse thinks it's a problem then it's a problem.


----------



## Lon

MominMayberry said:


> Lon,
> He has a condition that means he has to have his vitals checked. She is an amazing doctor and we love her. If I were to behave about her as some of the others here said, we would have fired a great doctor. The poster clearly hasn't come back and only started a post to get people to discuss. I am not refering to him. I am refering to my situation and that is that my husband has a good looking doctor and I have a good looking trainer. Why would looks be an issue? Should I have hired an ugly out of shape trainer? Should he have only gone for a male doctor? We hired the best no matter the gender. I don't understand why this matters. Makes no sense to me.


It probably is no big deal, but there are other great doctors out there and your H's woman doc would surely have no problem finding other patients. Like Acorn suggested, if neither of you are crossing each others boundaries there is no reason to be upset.

However I was just speaking from my point of view as a man, that if I can get great customer service from two providers and one of them happens to be hot I know where I will go and why. (I even used to only one hairstylist I would always go see, she was great, even did not a bad job on my hair, when I had some).

As respectful as your H may be I guarantee the fantasy of doing something inappropriate with this doc has gone thru his mind. Most guys will never act on that, some just have integrity and wouldn't flirt or let anything escalate into such a situation but for many guys its largely because the female service provider is simply acting professionally by not acting on an ulterior motive of relentlessly trying to pursue them for sex. I'm not going to classify your H, I will assume he is the man of integrity.

However, by and large, gender most certainly matters, especially when it is a male chock full of testosterone.


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> My husband has a primary care doctor who is 28 and gorgeous. He has to see her often. She does a great job and takes care of him. Should I ask him to go to another doctor? Should he ask me to go to another trainer. No. Seriously?


Doctors have assistants. Personal Trainers are not doctors. 

Do doctors have a history of sleeping with their patients to the extent that personal trainers do?

If you want to see your PT like you view a doctor you may want to step back and examine those feelings.

Also consider the social status hear. A Doctore makes a very good amount of money. Very often more then their clients. Most PTs do not make more than thier married clients. Like I said this is a way for the good looking jock to have his way with the laughable guy making the money. Yes many think this way.


----------



## MominMayberry

Jay and Beowulf,
Would I give up my trainer if my husband had an issue with him? Not sure. If my husband could show me proof of some wrongdoing then yes. If it was nothing more than jeolousness, no. I didn't ask him to give up his good looking doctor for me. She saved his life and my trainer is helping me get healthy. I can't imagine if I had asked him to give up a top doctor because I was insecure. Why should he be okay with asking me to give up a top trainer and my health? He has no issue with it at all. He has met the trainer and likes him.


----------



## joeydinap

joeydinap said:


> Need some help guys, my 49 year old wife has a 25 year stud trainer who looks at her with passion in his eyes. he won't even look at me or even say hello to me. this has been going on for over a year. she says nothing is going on & I believe her on her part but I think there is more from his side. She will not give him up even to the point of potential divorce. I can not live with her going to these private workouts.
> 
> Am I overly sensitive or a fool


To clarify somethings over the last year while she was training I gave her lots a crap about it and made her feel like crap! Telling me I don't listen to her & disrespect what she says. He quit the gym and she stop training with him and started going with me, then he text her and said I working at another place and she told him that she was interested then got mad at me and started again just to hurt me. And we have fought to no end


----------



## joeydinap

Entropy3000 said:


> Even if we assume the guy is a total freakin idiot controlling jerk the situation the wife is in is still not good. So she is ok to go out of her way and behave badly just to rebell?
> 
> But if we can assume he is this then we can then assume his wife has been unfaitful their whole marriage. Nothing indocates this.
> 
> He wants his wife to give up her male personal trainer.
> he never should have been ok with this to beigin with.
> 
> Can we also assume he was very Beta to begin with and then wised up too late?


I wasn't okay from the begining.He was randomly given to her when she signed up but she kept going despite my objections. saying it something that is good for her and that she enjoys


----------



## Good Dog

Entropy3000 said:


> You are paying personal trainers and they usually hit on your wife? I would confront that guy.
> 
> This is less about trusting a wife and more about valuing her as a partner and not trustung the situation.
> 
> These guys get plenty of positive feedback. They are very young and yet in a position of power. They really are not all that accountable to anyone. Pretty much the husband will never know his wife is being hit on.


Yeah, it's not an ongoing thing. Just trainers she's had in the past who were male. She told me what went on and usually didn't go on using that guy, which resulted in offense to one in particular. What was strange was that he wasn't upset about the lost fees, but the fact that she turned him down. I guess the main perk for some of these guys is the women and not the money. I have a feeling these guys succeed pretty often, or at least often enough to keep at it. My reaction today is more about realizing what you're saying is true, but those times when this was going on it never occurred to me to tell my wife not to see him. I had more trust then I suppose. But yes, it is also about knowing that the situation is bad (and the conduct of these guys and what they had her doing) rather than being a complete lack of trust in her.


----------



## Lon

WorkingOnMe said:


> A better comparison would be a husband seeing an attractive massage therapist. Or a wife for that matter. And in that case I think it's the same situation, if the other spouse thinks it's a problem then it's a problem.


Actually just reading this post reminded me of an experience I had almost two years ago when I was married and we were having issues (not many sexual needs being met)... my W and I were both seeing an osteopath here for separate issues, she is attractive and young and also talented and passionate about her field of study. She is the only Osteopath in my city, and I found the therapy beneficial, however I found the touch was becoming too "intimate" for me and I stopped going to therapy with her (I have never told anyone the reason I stopped before). It is dawning on me now that even though it was something that felt good (both during and after) I recognized it was potentially a threat to my own integrity, and thus my relationship with my W. (even though this Osteo was being completely professional)


----------



## Entropy3000

joeydinap said:


> To clarify somethings over the last year while she was training I gave her lots a crap about it and made her feel like crap! Telling me I don't listen to her & disrespect what she says. He quit the gym and she stop training with him and started going with me, then he text her and said I working at another place and she told him that she was interested then got mad at me and started again just to hurt me. And we have fought to no end


If my wife did *anything* "just to hurt me", we would be done.


----------



## In_The_Wind

Op showed up Hey Joey good debate you stirred up !!!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

joeydinap said:


> I wasn't okay from the begining.He was randomly given to her when she signed up but she kept going despite my objections. saying it something that is good for her and that she enjoys


I would have made my stand there. This is a symptom of bigger issues is what I am saying.


----------



## MominMayberry

Entrophy,
What is your point? Both are professionals. Is level of education more important to you? So say a lawyer or a janitor going to be viewed differently by you?


----------



## FrankKissel

Entropy3000 said:


> Doctors have assistants. Personal Trainers are not doctors.
> 
> Do doctors have a history of sleeping with their patients to the extent that personal trainers do?


Oh, heck yeah.
And it's far worse because doctors often are in a position of authority (perceived, at least) and can take advantage of people when they're most vulnerable.
A study of psychiatrists, for example, found that between 5 and 10 percent had sexual relations with patients. And that's based on self-reporting. And, unlike trainers, there are clear guidelines against that sort of thing.

I am curious, though, other than the occasional anecdote, what's the basis of your assertion that there's some kind of epidemic of trainers sleeping with clients?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

joeydinap said:


> I wasn't okay from the begining.He was randomly given to her when she signed up but she kept going despite my objections. saying it something that is good for her and that she enjoys


Joey you have done nothing wrong. Your feelings about this man and your wife are valid. This boils down to respect. You ave voiced your concerns and feelings to your wife and she has essentially spit in your face. Time to take a stand. Tell her if she continues to show you a lack of respect then it is over between you and you will be seeing a lawyer to discuss your options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Entropy3000 said:


> They probably do succeed often enough. The thing is that even if the woman does not end up in bed with the guy her enjoying him hitting on her is disrespectful at the least and belittling to her husband. Many ladies will "put up" with this because they like the attention.


Hey E, I know you like to show everybody how smart you are by tread-jacking, but we have a lost soul here in need of help. Think you can put your windmill-tilting on old and get back to the discussion at hand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> What is your point? Both are professionals. Is level of education more important to you as far as scaming your wife? So say a lawyer or a janitor going to be viewed differently by you?


Life is shades of gray. They are not the same level of professional.

You honestly equate all people who get paid to provide a service as on the same level with one another? They are all professionals.

There are all sorts of levels to personal trainers. Most of them take a two week class and they are a professional. 

Yours may or may not have his CSCS.
Does he? They are few and far between.

To equate a personal trainer at one of these family type gyms is absolutley ludicrous and works against the credibility of what you are saying.

The gym is not your doctors office. A doctor can be sued for malpractice. A doctor seducing thier clients risks a lot. A personal trainer gets a slap on the back. Get serious.


----------



## bandit.45

Entropy3000 said:


> The dude was gone and just came back. I have replied to him.
> 
> Besides I'm a professional.


No, you steamrolled right over the top of him and continued on with your debate agenda. As for being a professional? I don't care if you are Sigmund Freud. Let's get back to Joey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FrankKissel

Entropy3000 said:


> Doctors have more at risk. PTs have virtually no accountability.
> 
> The same thing you base your opinions on Frank. But if you really believe PTs do not sleep with thier clients more than Doctors then fine. he hubby should drop the 28 year old hottie. Thank you for opening my eyes towards doctors. It does not change my opinion of the avergae PT.


So, in other words, there is no basis for your assertions.
Got it. 

People do all sorts of dumb things despite having a lot to lose by doing them. They cheat. They jump out of airplanes. They drive drunk. They do heroin. 
You're going to have to come up with better than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jayb

MominMayberry said:


> Jay and Beowulf,
> Would I give up my trainer if my husband had an issue with him? Not sure. If my husband could show me proof of some wrongdoing then yes. If it was nothing more than jeolousness, no. I didn't ask him to give up his good looking doctor for me. She saved his life and my trainer is helping me get healthy. I can't imagine if I had asked him to give up a top doctor because I was insecure. Why should he be okay with asking me to give up a top trainer and my health? He has no issue with it at all. He has met the trainer and likes him.


You don't need a trainer. Meaning, you can read up and do it yourself. Or ask friends for help. Or workout with friends/family.

A PT is a luxury.


----------



## Lon

FrankKissel said:


> So, in other words, there is no basis for your assertions.
> Got it.
> 
> People do all sorts of dumb things despite having a lot to lose by doing them. They cheat. They jump out of airplanes. They drive drunk. They do heroin.
> You're going to have to come up with better than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Frank, my mind does not work like wikipedia so I can't simply recall all my sources at will, however IIRC there have been multiple threads on this site over the past year where there has been infidelity involving personal trainers. For those of us who devoted a lot of time understanding why affairs happened we realize that so many of the factors are at play in an opposite sex trainer-trainee relationsip. Also the niceguy losing his W to the fitness instructor it is a very common cliche for a reason. I could spend a bunch of time googling articles to prove a point, but in my mind it has already been shown that it is a higher than average risk for infidelity and I am just accepting it as is... I think many on this thread also just accept it too, you could spend a bunch of time trying to prove us wrong but it won't change the course of this topic.


----------



## Acorn

Entropy3000 said:


> He could get a male doctor.


Yes, the point is, if she has a problem with him seeing a female doctor, he could get a male doctor.

If he has a problem with her seeing a male PT, she should take it upon herself to get a female PT.

She should not just dismiss his concern about the PT because she doesn't think the doctor is an issue.


----------



## Beowulf

MominMayberry said:


> Jay and Beowulf,
> Would I give up my trainer if my husband had an issue with him? Not sure. If my husband could show me proof of some wrongdoing then yes. If it was nothing more than jeolousness, no. I didn't ask him to give up his good looking doctor for me. She saved his life and my trainer is helping me get healthy. I can't imagine if I had asked him to give up a top doctor because I was insecure. Why should he be okay with asking me to give up a top trainer and my health? He has no issue with it at all. He has met the trainer and likes him.


So instead of respecting how your husband feels you would just chalk it up to jealousy and do what you want anyway? Wow.

At my wife's job there is a guy who I feel has been hitting on her for some time. When we talked about it she continued to tell me that I was wrong and it wasn't anything to be concerned about. That is until a coworker also made a comment about it. I had her post here on TAM and everyone agreed that it was over the line. Yet my wife didn't see it. I would hope that if this situation does occur that you would have more respect for your husband than to just dismiss his concerns as unfounded insecurities. Sometimes we see things that you might refuse to see.

And the analogy with the doctor is just plain silly. I'm sure you have been to most of your husband's appointments. I wonder how many training sessions your husband has been invited to.


----------



## Beowulf

OP, you need to give your wife an ultimatum. This is unacceptable to you obviously so it needs to end or the marriage should be placed on probation. There is no call for her to ignore your concerns. This shows a complete lack of respect for you and the marriage. Tell her that she needs to spend the time she currently devotes to her training to MC.


----------



## Kobo

MominMayberry said:


> Entrophy,
> My husband has a primary care doctor who is 28 and gorgeous. He has to see her often. She does a great job and takes care of him. Should I ask him to go to another doctor? Should he ask me to go to another trainer. No. Seriously?


Does your husband notice the trainer would like to screw you? The answer to that question will be my determining factor to your question
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

> Originally Posted by Entropy3000 View Post
> Doctors have more at risk. PTs have virtually no accountability.
> 
> *The same thing you base your opinions on Frank.* But if you really believe PTs do not sleep with thier clients more than Doctors then fine. he hubby should drop the 28 year old hottie. Thank you for opening my eyes towards doctors. It does not change my opinion of the avergae PT.





FrankKissel said:


> *So, in other words, there is no basis for your assertions.
> Got it. *
> 
> People do all sorts of dumb things despite having a lot to lose by doing them. They cheat. They jump out of airplanes. They drive drunk. They do heroin.
> You're going to have to come up with better than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was actually funny Frank. The way you slammed yourself. Kudos to you! I have a new found appreciation for your wit.

I wonder what you are even arguing about now Frankly. My assertion is that couples need to agree on their boundaries. That if the husband is uncomfortable with the situation he has every right to insist she drop the trainer. As does the wife in the reverse scenario. That alone makes me unreasonable I know.

I think it is especially risky for a woman to have a male personal trainer. So I think you should insist your wife get one right away and see how that works out for you. Him having a CSCS is a good idea though. That makes them a bonified professional in the industry. At least you know they are serious about training. That is no garantee but it is less likely they are just doing this for a couple of years as a great way to get laid.

I stand by my experience around training and personal trainers. I am not talking about all. But large enough for this to be a real problem.

You were able to to convince me that there is real risk around Doctors. So good point. I still believe that they have more credibility than Joe Schmoe PT who has a two week seminar certification who has no accountability whatsoever. It is a good way for a fit guy to make some bucks and hit on the ladies. The serious ones are in the minority. A good trainer is awesome. Often they try to become life coaches which is all fine and dandy but dangerous with opposite sex relationships IMO.


----------



## MominMayberry

Joey,
What are your plans?


----------



## MominMayberry

Entropy,
When you live in a bubble, you believe that everything exists in that bubble. I have read your posts and your stead fast loyalty to Married Mans Sex Life and if you view that as your bible, you are taught that all men are only out to get their way with women using tricks and road maps so naturally you would assume that all men are like that. The bubble. Didn't he cheat on his wife twice? Why would you assume that all men are like him? If you believe him and his words, then it makes sense that you think all men are like him because we project our own experinces on to others as he has done. He cheated twice so of course he thinks all women are out for something like he was. 
As for my trainer, he has a Masters in Kinesiology. It took him a little longer than 2 weeks to get that. He is nothing but professional but I doubt you would ever think that about a trainer. Again, the bubble.


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## risotto20

You know 25 is pretty young and immature really. He may be a stud from working out be he is probably a mental weakling and intimidated by you as you are probably a professional in some capacity that allows your wife to have personal trainers...hence the lack of eye contact. Not sure why he ignores you when you say hello? That is just rude. You asked her what was going on and she said nothing. A lot of these posters on here tell you she is having an affair...its enough to make someone go crazy. My wife accused me of having an affair yesterday and I AM NOT. Not sure how you two come in contact with each other but I would confront him. Ask why he can't muster up the strength to say hello and check out his body language. Ask him to look you in the eye when he speaks.


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> Entropy,
> When you live in a bubble, you believe that everything exists in that bubble. I have read your posts and your stead fast loyalty to Married Mans Sex Life and if you view that as your bible, you are taught that all men are only out to get their way with women using tricks and road maps so naturally you would assume that all men are like that. The bubble. Didn't he cheat on his wife twice? Why would you assume that all men are like him? If you believe him and his words, then it makes sense that you think all men are like him because we project our own experinces on to others as he has done. He cheated twice so of course he thinks all women are out for something like he was.
> As for my trainer, he has a Masters in Kinesiology. It took him a little longer than 2 weeks to get that. He is nothing but professional but I doubt you would ever think that about a trainer.
> 
> *I guess you missed my post on the CSCS. I actually have some knowledge of the industry you speak.*
> 
> Again, the bubble.


MMSL is not my bubble. I found it very valuable. It has helped my marriage. Have you read the book? It seems not.

When people have a disagreement with others sometimes as a tactic they try to put a box or in your case a bubble around them to diminish and limit them. To minimize what they have to say. I do have a center. At my center is where I live. I keep my values at my center. They ensure my integrity. I learned that having proper boundaries protects my center and my marriage. It is the stahara. Our center of power. I think outside the box but realize while there is goodness outside of that box to be found, there are also an infinite number of bad choices as well.

Again my belief is that marriage is based on love and respect. Trust is a by-product. Marriage to me is a partnership. I believe that partners should protect each other. These are at my center. So if you are looking for a conflict, let the journey be yours dear lady.


----------



## Entropy3000

Yes there are any number of reasons for the PTs behavior but Joey has clued us in on one possibility since the OP.

The conflict that his wife and he had over the guy to begin with. They stopped the training for a while. Then the guy contacted her to join him. She did. He knows she is seeing him against her husbands wishes. This is a very good reason to avert his eyes.
It does not eliminate the other possibilites but it is plausible.

I agree with other that say he needs to be firm about his bonddaries. She needs to cut the third party out of the marriage or move on.


----------



## AFEH

MominMayberry said:


> Entropy,
> When you live in a bubble, you believe that everything exists in that bubble. I have read your posts and your stead fast loyalty to Married Mans Sex Life and if you view that as your bible, you are taught that all men are only out to get their way with women using tricks and road maps so naturally you would assume that all men are like that. The bubble. Didn't he cheat on his wife twice? Why would you assume that all men are like him? If you believe him and his words, then it makes sense that you think all men are like him because we project our own experinces on to others as he has done. He cheated twice so of course he thinks all women are out for something like he was.
> As for my trainer, he has a Masters in Kinesiology. It took him a little longer than 2 weeks to get that. He is nothing but professional but I doubt you would ever think that about a trainer. Again, the bubble.


You are fighting your corner so long and hard without letting it go it comes across that you’re probably deluded and in denial.


Which could well be symptoms that you really do have the hots for your trainer.


But you don’t want to admit it to yourself let alone the trainer or your husband.




By defending your personal trainer so vigorously, robustly, rigorously and meticulously (even to the point of reading Ent’s other posts!) your are DEMONSTRATING right here and now the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT you already have in the guy. And just how MASSIVELY LINKED EMOTIONALLY to him you are.

Of course these things between a wife and a personal trainer are called an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR!!!!

And a wife who is so exceedingly full of denial and scapegoating is one who is said to be in the FOG!!!!

If you truly value your marriage and your husband ….


BIN YOUR PERSONAL TRAINER!!!!


While you are still in the FOG, you will of course be checking the guy out to make sure he's safe and can keep secrets. You know all those things women do when they see a man they want to be with. Because the next stage the wife wants to do is to take her EA into a PA!!!!


----------



## Kobo

AFEH said:


> By defending your personal trainer so vigorously, robustly, rigorously and meticulously (even to the point of reading Ent’s other posts!) your are DEMONSTRATING right here and now the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT you already have in the guy. And just how MASSIVELY LINKED EMOTIONALLY to him you are.
> 
> Of course these things between a wife and a personal trainer are called an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR!!!!
> 
> And a wife who is so exceedingly full of denial and scapegoating is one who is said to be in the FOG!!!!



ish just got real


----------



## Beowulf

MominMayberry said:


> Entropy,
> When you live in a bubble, you believe that everything exists in that bubble. I have read your posts and your stead fast loyalty to Married Mans Sex Life and if you view that as your bible, you are taught that all men are only out to get their way with women using tricks and road maps so naturally you would assume that all men are like that. The bubble. Didn't he cheat on his wife twice? Why would you assume that all men are like him? If you believe him and his words, then it makes sense that you think all men are like him because we project our own experinces on to others as he has done. He cheated twice so of course he thinks all women are out for something like he was.
> As for my trainer, he has a Masters in Kinesiology. It took him a little longer than 2 weeks to get that. He is nothing but professional but I doubt you would ever think that about a trainer. Again, the bubble.


If you are referring to Athol Kay to my knowledge he never cheated on his wife at all. I have seen him state on multiple occasions that he COULD cheat on his wife. This statement mirrors exactly what Dr. Harley and many other authors/counselors have stated. As human beings we ALL can cheat given the right circumstances. His book simply gives a different method for men to interact with their wives. I'm not saying its a good method or that it always works. Its simply another way to view relationships. And it does not involve tricks any more than dating involves tricks. You really should read the book before you judge it.

I also have read MMSL as well as No More Mr. Nice Guy, His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters, Surviving An Affair, Anatomy of Love, The 5 Love Languages, Not Just Friends, The Seven Principals for Making Marriage Work, Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus, The Erotic Mind, From Panic to Power, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause, When The Earth Moves:Women and Orgasm, What Your Mother Never Told You About Sex...and those are just the ones I can pull off the top of my head (yes I'm a man). I've read all these books and more because I want to understand the three entities in a marriage - the man, the woman, and the union. These books are simply tools to guide and knowledge to share.

The fact that men and women are different should not need to be said. Its those differences that make relationships wonderful but it also makes those same relationships challenging. Quite often my wife brings perspectives to the table that I would never have seen on my own. Sometimes I can see things that she cannot. Its why we work so well together. The point of my post was that your husband may see things differently than you do. He may be bothered by things but decides not to mention anything because he doesn't want to hurt you. When my wife became obsessed by photography I was hesitant to confront her. Yet I knew if I didn't it would eventually harm our relationship. I would hope that if your husband finds himself confronting you over something that is bothering him you would grant him the same respect that he obviously shows you.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Beowulf said:


> So instead of respecting how your husband feels you would just chalk it up to jealousy and do what you want anyway? Wow.
> 
> At my wife's job there is a guy who I feel has been hitting on her for some time. When we talked about it she continued to tell me that I was wrong and it wasn't anything to be concerned about. That is until a coworker also made a comment about it. I had her post here on TAM and everyone agreed that it was over the line. Yet my wife didn't see it. I would hope that if this situation does occur that you would have more respect for your husband than to just dismiss his concerns as unfounded insecurities. Sometimes we see things that you might refuse to see.
> 
> And the analogy with the doctor is just plain silly. I'm sure you have been to most of your husband's appointments. I wonder how many training sessions your husband has been invited to.


I posted earlier this year about a similar situation. we do a lot of things with families on our block, as well as some friends of those families that are invited from time to time. One woman, a friend of another family, seemed a bit too friendly with me for my wife's taste. I have not and do not see any inappropriate behavior. It may well be my wife's insecurities, I have no idea, but it is there. So my choices were insisting I am right, or making my wife happy. For me, it was a very easy decision to politely stay away from this woman. The upside of making at best a very casual friend was just not worth the potential harm to my marriage. I did not take it as my wife not trusting me - frankly, I was a bit flattered that she "fought" for me in a sense. 

Interestingly enough, when I posted this story, two or three women posted noting that women can very often see signs that men don't and tell when another women is up to no good. I believe men can often see the same signs in another man.


----------



## cabin fever

some of these posts are the most idiotic things I have ever read. 

If the shoes were reveresed, and the hubby was going to see a hot young chick trainer, at the wifes disapproval, I bet it would be different. Then the husband would be a royal prick, who doesn't understand his wifes feelings.  Give me a friggen break! 

Bottom line, it upsets the husbands feelings, and the wife continues to do it!


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> I posted earlier this year about a similar situation. we do a lot of things with families on our block, as well as some friends of those families that are invited from time to time. One woman, a friend of another family, seemed a bit too friendly with me for my wife's taste. I have not and do not see any inappropriate behavior. It may well be my wife's insecurities, I have no idea, but it is there. So my choices were insisting I am right, or making my wife happy. For me, it was a very easy decision to politely stay away from this woman. The upside of making at best a very casual friend was just not worth the potential harm to my marriage. I did not take it as my wife not trusting me - frankly, I was a bit flattered that she "fought" for me in a sense.
> 
> Interestingly enough, when I posted this story, two or three women posted noting that women can very often see signs that men don't and tell when another women is up to no good. I believe men can often see the same signs in another man.


I totally agree. There are different types of intuition. My wife said I had gotten invovled in an EA. I did not know what that was. I was not hiding anything. I insisted that it was just close friends. I was deluded. I realized it after I was well within withdrawal. She was right.

I listened to my wife though even before I realized she was exactly right. Out of love and respect for her I went NC. I even changed my job. I did not resent this. I came to love her even more for reeling me back in. She saw it.

Often men can pickup on when another is showing his interest. Likewise we can pickup on the woman's body language and behaviors. There is a gut feeling involved. Sometimes a woman "lights up" or "glows" flips her hair, smiles and uses her eyes coyly in a manner that shows interest in someone beyond the platonic.

So with all the drama involved with Joey's situation why is it dismissed as extreme jealousy, insecurity and controlling.

I think this type of jealousy is that gut feeling. Which does challenge the husbands security. The husband is trying to c0ckblock. So yeah ok. Why would a husband not be these things?


----------



## Beowulf

Exactly,

Joey's wife is not respecting his feelings and instead is blatantly throwing it back in his face. He needs to stand up for himself. If his wife can walk all over him she certainly won't respect him. I wouldn't respect my wife if I could walk all over her.


----------



## sinnister

maggot brain said:


> You say she's 49 huh? Is he keeping her looking hot at that age? Might not be a bad situation overrall, just sayin'...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Assuming you aren't joking....

Keeping her looking hot "at that age" (like it's some sort of anomaly) means very little if she's getting banged by other dudes.


----------



## sinnister

Ya there's such things as trust in a marriage and blah blah blah all that good stuff you read in magazines and watch in romantic comedies. But here in reality, all wives and husbands should get automatic veto power on causual relationships.

It makes zero sense to me why anybody who loved somebody would deliberately hurt them by ignoring their feelings and continuing to see a personal trainer of all things (eye rolls) when 

A) there are literally hundreds of them to choose from and 
B) their decision to ignore the other partners feelings will hurt the marriage


----------



## strikethree

Wow, so much discussion when the answer is clear on post 1.

She chose the trainer over her husband ("even at the cost of potential divorce").

She probably did this because she knew her husband wouldn't follow through anyway and she could still cake eat.

But regardless, any woman who chooses another man over her husband should be cut lose. 

End of freaking story.


----------



## Beowulf

strikethree said:


> Wow, so much discussion when the answer is clear on post 1.
> 
> She chose the trainer over her husband ("even at the cost of potential divorce").
> 
> She probably did this because she knew her husband wouldn't follow through anyway and she could still cake eat.
> 
> But regardless, any woman who chooses another man over her husband should be cut lose.
> 
> End of freaking story.


Short and sweet. Kudos. :iagree:


----------



## joeydinap

I have protested since the begining, She told me I never support her in anything for herself, I am controling( which I am) The training is not in a big gym it is his own semi private gym in a small store front. she says it is just a 30 min workout and he is professional to he. I don't buy it. I do not think she is cheating on me but he has other ideas


----------



## Entropy3000

joeydinap said:


> I have protested since the begining, She told me I never support her in anything for herself, I am controling( which I am) The training is not in a big gym it is his own semi private gym in a small store front. she says it is just a 30 min workout and he is professional to he. I don't buy it. I do not think she is cheating on me but he has other ideas


Support her at something else.

Lets assume for the moment it is on the up and up. It is still something you are uncomfortable with. She needs to support you on this.

That said *Too much advantage his dojo.*

His 'setup' sounds great for professional athletes and is an easy place to lure women and so on. 

So she told you tough [email protected] That attitude screams cake eating. 

So what keeps you from gaining entrance during her workout? Are the door locked? Can anyone just walk in? Or if a hsuband comes by do they have to press a button and wait for someone to answer the intercom.

So these really are "private" sessions.


----------



## Beowulf

joeydinap said:


> I have protested since the begining, She told me I never support her in anything for herself, I am controling( which I am) The training is not in a big gym it is his own semi private gym in a small store front. she says it is just a 30 min workout and he is professional to he. I don't buy it. I do not think she is cheating on me but he has other ideas


I do not buy the controlling card. Nobody can control anyone else.

Put this nonsense to bed once and for all. This is unacceptable.


----------



## Beowulf

Entropy3000 said:


> Support her at something else.
> 
> Lets assume for the moment it is on the up and up. It is still something you are uncomfortable with. She needs to support you on this.
> 
> That said *Too much advantage his dojo.*
> 
> His 'setup' sounds great for professional athletes and is an easy place to lure women and so on.
> 
> So she told you tough [email protected] That attitude screams cake eating.
> 
> So what keeps you from gaining entrance during her workout? Are the door locked? Can anyone just walk in? Or if a hsuband comes by do they have to press a button and wait for someone to answer the intercom.
> 
> So these really are "private" sessions.


Good point. If he is completely professional tell her you will accompany her to every workout. That way she can keep her precious trainer. Watch how quick she balks at that suggestion.


----------



## bandit.45

joeydinap said:


> I have protested since the begining, She told me I never support her in anything for herself, I am controling( which I am) The training is not in a big gym it is his own semi private gym in a small store front. she says it is just a 30 min workout and he is professional to he. I don't buy it. I do not think she is cheating on me but he has other ideas


Then you know what you have to do. See a lawyer and tell your wife that as of now the marriage is on hold until she starts showing you some respect. If she won't, start the divorce paperwork moving and do the 180 on her. 

You cannot control her, but you can start taking away some of her support system. 

1) Call and cancel all your joint credit cards tonight.

2) If you are paying for her cell phone, shut it off. Let her get her own phone. 

3) Move half your moneys from joint accounts into your own checking account in your name only. Have your direct pay deposit go to that account. 

4) See a lawyer to discuss your options.

5) Do the 180. 

The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## Entropy3000

Beowulf said:


> Good point. If he is completely professional tell her you will accompany her to every workout. That way she can keep her precious trainer. Watch how quick she balks at that suggestion.


She will go balistic at this of course. The trainer will say he does not allow husbands there but yes he should do this.

So this is not a trainer in a public setting where they can be seen "training". Yes trainers can get very touchy in this scenario as well. But he will have zero approach anxiety in this setting.

Ideally the first time you show up will be a surprise to the trainer. You do not want them to orchestrate it. So being able to stop by unannouced is best. BUT, I am very skeptical that you would be able to do so. 

Have you actually been inside his GYM? Thinking it is closed door and by appointment only.


----------



## MEM2020

Sis,
You were asked a direct question about how you would respond if genders were reversed and you ignored it. This isn't about trust, it's about respect. If I had a 25 year old female trainer who was not even willing to say hi to my wife, my w would not even have to ask me to ditch her. Any woman hostile to my wife is out, well unless she is my daughter...


QUOTE=sisters359;651450]The OP gave no hint that his wife was in anyway demonstrating more interest in the trainer. 

Maybe people aren't too smart--but if I were in an affair (which I haven't been) and my partner started getting suspicious, I'd do whatever I could to throw him off the trail. Being brazen is just asking for someone to dig deeper--which the OP is likely to do, since he doesn't trust his wife, anyway.

The trust is broken, so the marriage is broken. He needs to address that.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

MominM,
Athol hasn't cheated on his wife. Where did you come up with that?





MominMayberry said:


> Entropy,
> When you live in a bubble, you believe that everything exists in that bubble. I have read your posts and your stead fast loyalty to Married Mans Sex Life and if you view that as your bible, you are taught that all men are only out to get their way with women using tricks and road maps so naturally you would assume that all men are like that. The bubble. Didn't he cheat on his wife twice? Why would you assume that all men are like him? If you believe him and his words, then it makes sense that you think all men are like him because we project our own experinces on to others as he has done. He cheated twice so of course he thinks all women are out for something like he was.
> As for my trainer, he has a Masters in Kinesiology. It took him a little longer than 2 weeks to get that. He is nothing but professional but I doubt you would ever think that about a trainer. Again, the bubble.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jeff/BC

sisters359 said:


> It seems a lot of men are always going to be uncomfortable when they think their wife is attractive to another man...The question I am focusing on is, what responsibility do women/wives bear for that?


None. That's my considered opinion. Carol bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for my feelings.

What she DOES bear, however, is the karma of her own decisions.

I also have been a loving and faithful husband who has established my integrity by doing the right thing yada yada. But man... if Carol ever came to me and said that she had questions about the very fundamentals of our marriage I would not be insulted. I'd be mortified that I had failed so utterly in my mission to make her feel like the most loved woman on the face of the planet. To me, that would be a "time to get busy" conversation. To me, the fact that she had those questions is obvious indication that I am failing at my own goals.

At some much later point in time, after I am utterly certain that I have fixed whatever got broken in our marriage I might bring up the insult part. But honestly, that would be very low on my priority queue and might well get forgotten by the time it was actually time. For me, this whole thing would be a lot like hiking through the woods and suddenly coming across a mountain lion peering at me through the shrubbery. I'm pretty clear that how the lion got there is not my most immediate concern.

I see no right or wrong in this. It's just a completely different sense of priorities and values. For me, I do not value my own personal autonomy and freedom. I find my "self" in "us". Compared to my marriage, I don't value my "pride" much either -- I got lots of that -- I can probably afford to spare some. For me, the marriage is at the absolute top of the priority heap. The moment that there was peril to that, everything else ceased being a consideration. The reasons for that peril... right or wrong... can be sorted out later.


----------



## AFEH

Jeff/BC said:


> None. That's my considered opinion. *Carol bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for my feelings.*
> 
> What she DOES bear, however, is the karma of her own decisions.
> 
> I also have been a loving and faithful husband who has established my integrity by doing the right thing yada yada. But man... if Carol ever came to me and said that she had questions about the very fundamentals of our marriage I would not be insulted. I'd be mortified that I had failed so utterly in my mission to make her feel like the most loved woman on the face of the planet. To me, that would be a "time to get busy" conversation. To me, the fact that she had those questions is obvious indication that I am failing at my own goals.
> 
> At some much later point in time, after I am utterly certain that I have fixed whatever got broken in our marriage I might bring up the insult part. But honestly, that would be very low on my priority queue and might well get forgotten by the time it was actually time. For me, this whole thing would be a lot like hiking through the woods and suddenly coming across a mountain lion peering at me through the shrubbery. I'm pretty clear that how the lion got there is not my most immediate concern.
> 
> I see no right or wrong in this. It's just a completely different sense of priorities and values. For me, I do not value my own personal autonomy and freedom. I find my "self" in "us". Compared to my marriage, I don't value my "pride" much either -- I got lots of that -- I can probably afford to spare some. For me, the marriage is at the absolute top of the priority heap. The moment that there was peril to that, everything else ceased being a consideration. The reasons for that peril... right or wrong... can be sorted out later.


Are you certain about that? If she has no emotional affect on you, then why on earth are you with her?



Take joeydinap’s situation. His wife’s behaviour is causing him say to feel (emotions) very insecure with her and therefore in his marriage to her. Her behaviour is also causing him to “feel” suspicious and probably other things like angry, confused etc. Insecurity in a marriage is pretty awful. If she wasn’t behaving in the way she is, then he wouldn’t feel insecure, angry, suspicious et al. So his emotions are a direct response to his wife’s behaviour.



Us humans do not live in emotional isolation, vacuum, from one another. “No man is an island …… for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee”. Some are more deeply connected emotionally to one another than others. Seems the only ones that aren’t connected emotionally are psychopaths and the like!


What we are responsible for though is sorting our emotions out. Naming, understanding them and understanding how they arose inside of us.

And perhaps most important of all we are totally responsible for how we respond to our emotions. But there’s even a caveat with that in that courts say take a lenient view when say something is done in a moment of passion compared to something that’s done in a cold, unemotional and premeditated way.


----------



## Jeff/BC

AFEH said:


> Are you certain about that? If she has no emotional affect on you, then why on earth are you with her?


I've been misunderstood. Carol has massive emotional impact on me. But hey, if we want to look at it in the way this thread has gone, all I was pointing out is that I'm fine with saying that Carol bears no responsibility for my feelings. But what she does bear is the karma of her choices. If Carol were to take a stand that my emotions were not here issue, then I guess I'd just have to cope with them all on my own and whatever decisions or conclusions I came to she would have to live with.

The truth for Carol and I though is that this is a hypothetical situation. It's implausible to imagine her taking a stance that says, "My significant feelings are meaningless to her." If I said, "Get a different trainer" there would be a different trainer. Anything else would be a betrayal on a great many levels. Anything else would be unthinkable to her.


----------



## MEM2020

Jeff/BC - Bob,
I am going to start a thread on this specific topic. I am going to call it, "Silence gives Assent". The basic theme is simple:

If a woman hits on me I have 3 basic choices:
1. Shut it down. I can do this in any number of ways up to and including terminating all interaction with her. Generally, pointing directly at your wedding ring and giving them a WTF look works like a champ. 
2. Remain carefully neutral. This is just wrong as it implies that you are perfectly fine with the other person continuing to pursue you. BAD message, bad behavior. It would be unacceptable to my W if I did it, and it is not acceptable to me for her to do it. 
3. Encourage it. Flirt back. 

I read lots of posts on here about online stuff. The husband writes that his W isn't flirting with her male friends on line, THEY are flirting with her. That is a crock. If they are flirting and she doesn't shut it down hard and warn them she will break contact if they resume (and follow through on that), she IS subtly encouraging it. 






Jeff/BC said:


> I've been misunderstood. Carol has massive emotional impact on me. But hey, if we want to look at it in the way this thread has gone, all I was pointing out is that I'm fine with saying that Carol bears no responsibility for my feelings. But what she does bear is the karma of her choices. If Carol were to take a stand that my emotions were not here issue, then I guess I'd just have to cope with them all on my own and whatever decisions or conclusions I came to she would have to live with.
> 
> The truth for Carol and I though is that this is a hypothetical situation. It's implausible to imagine her taking a stance that says, "My significant feelings are meaningless to her." If I said, "Get a different trainer" there would be a different trainer. Anything else would be a betrayal on a great many levels. Anything else would be unthinkable to her.


----------



## Entropy3000

MEM11363 said:


> Jeff/BC - Bob,
> I am going to start a thread on this specific topic. I am going to call it, "Silence gives Assent". The basic theme is simple:
> 
> If a woman hits on me I have 3 basic choices:
> 1. Shut it down. I can do this in any number of ways up to and including terminating all interaction with her. Generally, pointing directly at your wedding ring and giving them a WTF look works like a champ.
> 2. Remain carefully neutral. This is just wrong as it implies that you are perfectly fine with the other person continuing to pursue you. BAD message, bad behavior. It would be unacceptable to my W if I did it, and it is not acceptable to me for her to do it.
> 3. Encourage it. Flirt back.
> 
> I read lots of posts on here about online stuff. The husband writes that his W isn't flirting with her male friends on line, THEY are flirting with her. That is a crock. If they are flirting and she doesn't shut it down hard and warn them she will break contact if they resume (and follow through on that), she IS subtly encouraging it.


Great idea for a thread. I totally agree with the choices you have listed.


----------



## Jeff/BC

Interesting thread, but I fail to see how this pertains to anything I've said. 

you're 3 basic choices aren't particularly applicable to my marriage but maybe I'll comment on that on the thread you start.


----------



## AFEH

Jeff/BC said:


> I've been misunderstood. Carol has massive emotional impact on me. But hey, if we want to look at it in the way this thread has gone, all I was pointing out is that I'm fine with saying that Carol bears no responsibility for my feelings. But what she does bear is the karma of her choices. If Carol were to take a stand that my emotions were not here issue, then I guess I'd just have to cope with them all on my own and whatever decisions or conclusions I came to she would have to live with.
> 
> The truth for Carol and I though is that this is a hypothetical situation. It's implausible to imagine her taking a stance that says, "My significant feelings are meaningless to her." If I said, "Get a different trainer" there would be a different trainer. Anything else would be a betrayal on a great many levels. Anything else would be unthinkable to her.


Maybe it’s just semantics here.


I’d still say that she is most definitely responsible for how you feel. In the case of feeling insecure, if you were to stay together then in my mind she’s certainly responsible for helping you overcome your feelings of insecurity by changing her behaviour.


But if you were to leave her and go your own way because she wont change her behaviour (which is what I eventually did, for other reasons that made me feel insecure), then the feelings of insecurity would no longer exist because you’d no longer be in the marriage!


But I do understand and agree our wives can and do have massive emotional impact on us.


----------



## AFEH

MEM11363 said:


> Jeff/BC - Bob,
> I am going to start a thread on this specific topic. I am going to call it, "Silence gives Assent". The basic theme is simple:
> 
> If a woman hits on me I have 3 basic choices:
> 1. Shut it down. I can do this in any number of ways up to and including terminating all interaction with her. Generally, pointing directly at your wedding ring and giving them a WTF look works like a champ.
> 2. Remain carefully neutral. This is just wrong as it implies that you are perfectly fine with the other person continuing to pursue you. BAD message, bad behavior. It would be unacceptable to my W if I did it, and it is not acceptable to me for her to do it.
> 3. Encourage it. Flirt back.
> 
> I read lots of posts on here about online stuff. The husband writes that his W isn't flirting with her male friends on line, THEY are flirting with her. That is a crock. If they are flirting and she doesn't shut it down hard and warn them she will break contact if they resume (and follow through on that), she IS subtly encouraging it.


Should be an interesting thread.


I disagree with your posit that these things done by woman are subtle!


From a Man’s perspective, as to whether they are participating or observing, they are subtle. In fact so subtle I think the vast majority of men are blind to them or they are only seen/felt through the subconscious.


But from a Woman’s perspective these things may just as well be shouted from the roof tops through the loudest speakers in the world because they are just so exceedingly obvious.


So from a man’s perspective sure she’s subtly encouraging it. But from a woman’s perspective she’s so obviously encouraging it!

Even the woman doing the “subtle” encouraging knows she’s doing it outlandishly obviously. Yet she’ll lie, scapegoat, deceive etc. to cover it up and mostly us men are dim enough to believe what they say as opposed to what they do!

Woman are I believe the other way around. They believe what we do, not what we say!


----------



## AFEH

MEM11363 said:


> MominM,
> Athol hasn't cheated on his wife. Where did you come up with that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she really is in the fog and will make anything up as a way of scapegoating and denying. My wife came up with some truly strange ones in order to deny any responsibility for her own actions and what had happened.


----------



## AFEH

MEM11363 said:


> Sis,
> You were asked a direct question about how you would respond if genders were reversed and you ignored it. This isn't about trust, it's about respect. If I had a 25 year old female trainer who was not even willing to say hi to my wife, my w would not even have to ask me to ditch her. Any woman hostile to my wife is out, well unless she is my daughter...


The truly strange thing is that Sis is one of the very first here to say to us men that if a wife is denying him sex it’s because he hasn’t looked after her emotional needs.


But when the tables are turned in that it’s a wife who has no care for her husband’s emotional needs Sis wants no part of it. To me it’s like she thinks men are emotionless robots just there to provide their wives with everything they could possible need!


I find that so exceedingly deeply hypocritical.


----------



## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> The truly strange thing is that Sis is one of the very first here to say to us men that if a wife is denying him sex it’s because he hasn’t looked after her emotional needs.
> 
> 
> But when the tables are turned in that it’s a wife who has no care for her husband’s emotional needs Sis wants no part of it. To me it’s like she thinks men are emotionless robots just there to provide their wives with everything they could possible need!
> 
> 
> I find that so exceedingly deeply hypocritical.


She believes men oppress women with their concerns to their interactions with other men. A very fundamental man and woman relationship thing and certainly valid in any discussion over a marriage. I could go on but it belongs in that new thread.

She also indicates that a woman can feel good around a 25 year old good looking guy because he is like a puppy dog. Of course this puppy dog wants to have sex with her. But that is not her problem to avoid. I have seen many women in my time refer to thier love interests in this manner. As he is her cute little pup[py dog. So I take no solice from this. I really do not want my wife hanging out with a hot puppy dog guy. Yes these guys are dogs ladies and most of you know it.

And of course people have every right to their opinions and how they run their lives. However in a good marriage you have to be able to have good boundaries. One spouse or the other does not have to accept what they consider to be risky or disrepsectful behavior from the other.


----------



## Jeff/BC

AFEH said:


> Maybe it’s just semantics here.


I think that's likely... coupled with interpretation errors. I have to work hard to try to interpret these scenarios into something which somehow might actually occur in my marriage. But in real life I'm speaking out my ass in vastly hypothetical situations that cannot occur... which means I probably shouldn't have posted on this thread to start with.


----------



## MominMayberry

MEM11363 said:


> MominM,
> Athol hasn't cheated on his wife. Where did you come up with that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read this :

He told MailOnline: 'It's almost surprising that people don't have sex. When you get married, you put all your eggs in one basket, so you may as well enjoy the basket!'

And he should know. He confesses he began writing his sex blog early last year after having two 'emotional affairs', which forced him to seek advice on the internet.
He told MailOnline: 'I realised that a lot of my problems were solved when I realised how wonderful my marriage actually was.'

If it helps people then good. I just wonder about advice from a person who has cheated twice.

Here is the whole article. There are some other pictures on the sides that might not be good for work though.

Sexpert reveals why he and his wife have slept together 5,000 times | Mail Online


----------



## Beowulf

MominMayberry said:


> I read this :
> 
> He told MailOnline: 'It's almost surprising that people don't have sex. When you get married, you put all your eggs in one basket, so you may as well enjoy the basket!'
> 
> And he should know. He confesses he began writing his sex blog early last year after having two 'emotional affairs', which forced him to seek advice on the internet.
> He told MailOnline: 'I realised that a lot of my problems were solved when I realised how wonderful my marriage actually was.'
> 
> If it helps people then good. I just wonder about advice from a person who has cheated twice.
> 
> Here is the whole article. There are some other pictures on the sides that might not be good for work though.
> 
> Sexpert reveals why he and his wife have slept together 5,000 times | Mail Online


I remember that. Athol talked about both incidents. If I am not mistaken this is how he described them. The first time he was feeling very down on himself as a man. He started chatting with a woman online to see if he could interest her. He admits it was all an ego thing as he wanted to see if he still had it. As soon as he knew he could have her he ended it. The second one was with a woman looking for advice. He got too involved in her personal life and felt the relationship was becoming too chummy. He cut off contact at that point. He calls both of these EAs. I'm not really sure they were but I guess if you're writing about relationships you have to have a very strict definition of what an EA is.

Remember that all MCs, psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists etc are human too. They all have problems in their own relationships. That doesn't invalidate their advice. Dr. Phil got a vasectomy and never told his wife until she said she wanted to have another child. Relationship guru Sharyn Wolf admitted her own marriage was a farce. She and her husband never slept together and had sex only 3 times in 15 years. If you're waiting for someone in a perfect relationship to give you relationship advice you have a long wait.


----------



## MEM2020

There are two distinct dimensions to this type interaction. You have the subset of males who suffer from testosterone poisoning. Those men physically intimidate, or beat or at the extreme end murder their female partners in these type situations. Thank god for anti stalking laws and much more aggressive law enforcement. Still even with that, the stats are very ugly and sad. In the non-physical relationships (where the men are truly civilized), the skew goes in the opposite direction. The average male is simply not emotionally equipped to go head to head against his partner. And in those cases you have this endless list of incredibly one sided behavior. Puppy dogs and passive encouragement of sexual aggression and ridiculous claims of controlling behavior - when that behavior is purely boundary enforcement. 

Really I love women, they are marvelous beings. Without them life would not be worn living. That said, men need to better understand women or these very one sided models of behavior will become ever more common.


UOTE=Entropy3000;661792]She believes men oppress women with their concerns to their interactions with other men. A very fundamental man and woman relationship thing and certainly valid in any discussion over a marriage. I could go on but it belongs in that new thread.

She also indicates that a woman can feel good around a 25 year old good looking guy because he is like a puppy dog. Of course this puppy dog wants to have sex with her. But that is not her problem to avoid. I have seen many women in my time refer to thier love interests in this manner. As he is her cute little pup[py dog. So I take no solice from this. I really do not want my wife hanging out with a hot puppy dog guy. Yes these guys are dogs ladies and most of you know it.

And of course people have every right to their opinions and how they run their lives. However in a good marriage you have to be able to have good boundaries. One spouse or the other does not have to accept what they consider to be risky or disrepsectful behavior from the other.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

This is the most amazing threadjack I've ever witnessed. 

I think I'll PM Joey and see how he's faring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

Jeff/BC totally made the thread about himself with his post - and it never came back.


----------



## bandit.45

I left Joey a PM, but no response yet.


----------



## MominMayberry

MEM11363 said:


> There are two distinct dimensions to this type interaction. You have the subset of males who suffer from testosterone poisoning. Those men physically intimidate, or beat or at the extreme end murder their female partners in these type situations. Thank god for anti stalking laws and much more aggressive law enforcement. Still even with that, the stats are very ugly and sad. In the non-physical relationships (where the men are truly civilized), the skew goes in the opposite direction. The average male is simply not emotionally equipped to go head to head against his partner. And in those cases you have this endless list of incredibly one sided behavior. Puppy dogs and passive encouragement of sexual aggression and ridiculous claims of controlling behavior - when that behavior is purely boundary enforcement.
> 
> Really I love women, they are marvelous beings. Without them life would not be worn living. That said, men need to better understand women or these very one sided models of behavior will become ever more common.
> 
> 
> UOTE=Entropy3000;661792]She believes men oppress women with their concerns to their interactions with other men. A very fundamental man and woman relationship thing and certainly valid in any discussion over a marriage. I could go on but it belongs in that new thread.
> 
> She also indicates that a woman can feel good around a 25 year old good looking guy because he is like a puppy dog. Of course this puppy dog wants to have sex with her. But that is not her problem to avoid. I have seen many women in my time refer to thier love interests in this manner. As he is her cute little pup[py dog. So I take no solice from this. I really do not want my wife hanging out with a hot puppy dog guy. Yes these guys are dogs ladies and most of you know it.
> 
> And of course people have every right to their opinions and how they run their lives. However in a good marriage you have to be able to have good boundaries. One spouse or the other does not have to accept what they consider to be risky or disrepsectful behavior from the other.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

So you are saying men are either aggresive or passive? No middle mark? I have met many men who are right in the middle. I think most men are right in the middle. Head to head against a partner. Is this war? I thought marriage was united not war. Most men I have known are emotional and caring. Average man? Most men are not beaters or puppies. Most are great. You dont seem to see any in between. What has happened to make you think that? I havent seen it.


----------



## MEM2020

Mom,
It is conflict not war. All healthy marriages have conflict. There is a phrase "when momma ain't happy..."
And yet there is no male corollary. And the reason is that Women excel at low intensity conflict. in an average marriage this produces a rather unequal outcome.

OTE=MominMayberry;666630]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

So you are saying men are either aggresive or passive? No middle mark? I have met many men who are right in the middle. I think most men are right in the middle. Head to head against a partner. Is this war? I thought marriage was united not war. Most men I have known are emotional and caring. Average man? Most men are not beaters or puppies. Most are great. You dont seem to see any in between. What has happened to make you think that? I havent seen it.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

Bandit,

Any response from joey on your pm?


----------



## the guy

Wow 11 pages and joey has only relied twice since his original thread.

joey, joey, joey, you thinks she,s not cheating....why don't you find out for sure that she is not cheating by planting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under her car seat. I suggest you eliminate any doubt your wife is cheating by investigating her actions.

Do this quitely, you don't want her showing off if she thinks your following her. So go ahead and get a GPS, VAR, keylogger and check her cell phone bill for large amount of texting.

In doing this it will put to rest any doubt you have.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you next week. LOL


----------



## joeydinap

Sorry, I travel a lot and don't get on the web much.
Wow what responses, I have to look at all of them and figure out what I am going to do.

Very sad on my part to be in this situation, thanks for all the ideas will keep you update as she continues to go to her private training!
Joey


----------



## joeydinap

Entropy3000 said:


> She will go balistic at this of course. The trainer will say he does not allow husbands there but yes he should do this.
> 
> So this is not a trainer in a public setting where they can be seen "training". Yes trainers can get very touchy in this scenario as well. But he will have zero approach anxiety in this setting.
> 
> Ideally the first time you show up will be a surprise to the trainer. You do not want them to orchestrate it. So being able to stop by unannouced is best. BUT, I am very skeptical that you would be able to do so.
> 
> Have you actually been inside his GYM? Thinking it is closed door and by appointment only.


Yes it is only by appointment only


----------



## joeydinap

MominMayberry said:


> Joey,
> What are your plans?


Right now I don't know It kills me every weeks she goes. I just keep reading and hopefully something will sound like a plan


----------



## joeydinap

sandc said:


> What about trusting the husband? He sees a problem that his wife doesn't see and we're supposed to assume he is being jealous? Maybe he's just being insightful.


That's what I'm saying she doesn't see it. But he would say hello to her when we are togheter but walk right past me and never say hello


----------



## river rat

WorkingOnMe said:


> Get yourself a hot female trainer. Then put a pass code on your cell phone so only you can see your texts. Even if the only person who texts you is your wife.


Better yet, get yourself a hot female trainer.


----------



## Gabriel

This is a great idea. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless, of course, the goose is getting f*cked by her trainer and doesn't want the husband to do the same.

it would be a good litmus test. I think at first joey's wife would say, "great, go for it"....until she saw the trainer.

Makes sure you find the hottest, youngest, possible trainer. 

Absent this - you are clearly at an impasse and getting nowhere. You've stated your boundaries. She is ignoring them. Have you asked her why the trainer never says hello to you?


----------



## AFEH

joeydinap said:


> That's what I'm saying she doesn't see it. But he would say hello to her when we are togheter but walk right past me and never say hello


You have a somewhat open personal boundary. You don’t like your wife’s behaviour, it’s upsetting you yet even though you’ve told her she continues to be totally disrespectful and trample over your boundary by continuing with her trainer.

A lot of us get a long way through life without a conscious awareness of our boundaries. In that we know when they’ve been crossed, abused, by how we feel, the emotions it generates inside of us (sadness, frustration, anger). So at times we feel the (very) strong emotions before we’ve even had time to think about and rationalise what’s going on.


I think you need to become much more aware of your boundaries and how to implement them. Take a look at Relationship Book, Self Help Relationship Book For a Man, Best Manual for Men.

Sometimes these things are “Do or die”. In that the person who abuses our boundaries either stops their abusive behaviour when we ask them or we end the relationship/marriage.

In this case such a boundary (declaration) would be something like “I will no longer tolerate your behaviour and disrespect for me. You chose between your trainer or me. You cannot have both. I expect your answer within 24 hours, if you don’t give an answer our marriage is over”.


Be careful though as you may well have to end your marriage. But surely you’d do that if your wife chose another man over you?



As for the trainer not looking at you I’d take that as a very big red flag in that your wife has probably divulged things to him about you and her marriage to you which aren’t good at all. In other words she’s in an emotional affair with the guy which is probably why she wont can him.


----------



## Entropy3000

the guy said:


> Wow 11 pages and joey has only relied twice since his original thread.
> 
> joey, joey, joey, you thinks she,s not cheating....why don't you find out for sure that she is not cheating by planting a VAR (voice activated recorder) under her car seat. I suggest you eliminate any doubt your wife is cheating by investigating her actions.
> 
> Do this quitely, you don't want her showing off if she thinks your following her. So go ahead and get a GPS, VAR, keylogger and check her cell phone bill for large amount of texting.
> 
> In doing this it will put to rest any doubt you have.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing from you next week. LOL


He needs to plant a VAR in something she takes to the "private" sessions. They may not communicate much beyond this.


----------



## jectruc

I read the first and last page and skipped the rest.

The wife will divorce him before breaking off the innappropriate behavior that makes hubby uncomfortable.

Forget the VARs and the sleuthing and everything else, it doesn't matter if there's an active affair or not.

She doesn't care about his feelings and would divorce him before cutting off the other guy.

Nothing left to see here other than a divorce attorney.


----------



## Entropy3000

The biggest problem is not whether anyone says hi to you. Red Flag or not. The issue is that your wife has chosen her private time with this guy over her marriage. Even if she is not having sex with this guy this is unacceptable to many of us. But I think she likely is.

Is there really a question here of what to do?

You are just waitng for an answer to pop up on this forum? 

That infers that you are not willing to tell her to choose. So this is not an option for you? 

Also with you travelling a lot what does she do while you are gone? For that matter what does she do when you are not travelling? Sorry if you covered this already but how is the rest of your marriage?


----------



## AFEH

jectruc said:


> I read the first and last page and skipped the rest.
> 
> The wife will divorce him before breaking off the innappropriate behavior that makes hubby uncomfortable.
> 
> Forget the VARs and the sleuthing and everything else, it doesn't matter if there's an active affair or not.
> 
> She doesn't care about his feelings and would divorce him before cutting off the other guy.
> 
> Nothing left to see here other than a divorce attorney.


Sometimes it takes a long time to come to those conclusions. Sometimes these things are like being inside a clothes washer. Sometimes it takes a hellish long time for the penny to finally drop. Sometimes we have to believe the unbelievable before we can get to the truth.


“It’s me or him” does though conclude things very rapidly.

But only when the husband is prepared to end the marriage. And that can be an exceptionally tough and traumatic thing to do when you are in love with your wife.

But looking back on the other side of the ultimatum it can look like one of the best decisions you ever made.


----------



## bandit.45

Joey,

Why are you letting your wife humiliate you. Even if there is nothing going on between her and this trainer, she is still putting him before your marriage.

It really is that simple. You can sit on your ass and do nothing and allow her to humiliate you, or you can take action.

Go to an attorney and find out your rights and file for Divorce. She cannot call your bluff when she gets those papers handed to her by a server.


----------



## MominMayberry

AFEH said:


> Maybe she really is in the fog and will make anything up as a way of scapegoating and denying. My wife came up with some truly strange ones in order to deny any responsibility for her own actions and what had happened.


I am not in a fog. If you think this is marriage counsel think again. He said that his life was great and he cheated twice. Why take counsel from a man who cheats?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

MominMayberry said:


> I am not in a fog. If you think this is marriage counsel think again. He said that his life was great and he cheated twice. Why take counsel from a man who cheats?


Perhaps because he understands best how to avoid the situation?

I am not going to defend his behavior, only note that under that criteria, who could we take counsel from, as no one is perfect.


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## GTdad

MominMayberry said:


> I am not in a fog. If you think this is marriage counsel think again. He said that his life was great and he cheated twice. Why take counsel from a man who cheats?


Some 20 years ago, I had an EA which was edging perilously close to a PA. It may well turned into that had I not changed jobs. When my head was clear again, I realized several things:

1) My integrity had some serious holes that I needed to recognize and repair to be the man I wanted to be. I did.

2) That I was weaker than I thought and that I needed to impose boundaries on my interactions with women and strictly hew to them. I did and do.

3) Marriages need constant tending and maintenance. I stumble on this one, though I haven't given up.

I have learned some hard lessons. Much of my knowledge was hard-won. I think that perhaps some of the better advice comes from people who have wrestled with their demons and have come out, for the most part, on top.


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## AFEH

MominMayberry said:


> I am not in a fog. If you think this is marriage counsel think again. He said that his life was great and he cheated twice. Why take counsel from a man who cheats?


Good for you.


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## joeydinap

Gabriel said:


> This is a great idea. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless, of course, the goose is getting f*cked by her trainer and doesn't want the husband to do the same.
> 
> it would be a good litmus test. I think at first joey's wife would say, "great, go for it"....until she saw the trainer.
> 
> Makes sure you find the hottest, youngest, possible trainer.
> 
> Absent this - you are clearly at an impasse and getting nowhere. You've stated your boundaries. She is ignoring them. Have you asked her why the trainer never says hello to you?


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## The Middleman

joeydinap said:


> Right now I don't know It kills me every weeks she goes. I just keep reading and hopefully something will sound like a plan


I'm late to this topic (seeing as the last post was about a month ago), but your situation is an interesting one. I know what I would do if I were in your situation, with my personality: I would just start attending the workout sessions with her ... with or without her permission ... Go with her to his GYM for every workout ... pay for it if you need to. If the trainer doesn't allow you in the GYM or if he tries to call a cop ... I would just stand outside the GYM while she was inside for her session and greet her on the way out and go home with her. Do this every time she goes. Make it as uncomfortable for her as she is making this situation uncomfortable for you. If you do this, I think that you would know very quickly if something is going on or not ... and if she threatens to divorce you ... well then you probably shouldn't be married to her in the first place. 

Just my take on this.


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## bandit.45

Joey has sent me some PMs. He's hurting, but he's afraid of coming back on TAM because some posters have been harsh. I think he's embarrassed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

The Middleman said:


> I'm late to this topic (seeing as the last post was about a month ago), but your situation is an interesting one. I know what I would do if I were in your situation, with my personality: I would just start attending the workout sessions with her ... with or without her permission ... Go with her to his GYM for every workout ... pay for it if you need to. If the trainer doesn't allow you in the GYM or if he tries to call a cop ... I would just stand outside the GYM while she was inside for her session and greet her on the way out and go home with her. Do this every time she goes. Make it as uncomfortable for her as she is making this situation uncomfortable for you. If you do this, I think that you would know very quickly if something is going on or not ... and if she threatens to divorce you ... well then you probably shouldn't be married to her in the first place.
> 
> Just my take on this.


These are "private" sessions. I get your point but I suspect that they would just as likely get off on this futility as not. 

He runs the risk of the police picking him up. 

I see him doing this as pouting like a child.

At the very least this is a cruel power game she is playing with him of humiliation.

I have no idea what the current situation is.


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## The Middleman

bandit.45 said:


> Joey has sent me some PMs. He's hurting, but he's afraid of coming back on TAM because some posters have been harsh. I think he's embarrassed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear that Bandit. However, on boards like this one with total anonymity, he should stick it out, if for no other reason than to vent a bit. However, if this is embarrassing to him, he's going to have a difficult time getting his wife to understand how much she is hurting him. She's going to be harder on him than any of us will be.


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## Entropy3000

bandit.45 said:


> Joey has sent me some PMs. He's hurting, but he's afraid of coming back on TAM because some posters have been harsh. I think he's embarrassed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear this bandit. I find his situation upsetting. It is another example of how cruel and hurtful people can be to one another.


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## The Middleman

Entropy3000 said:


> These are "private" sessions. I get your point but I suspect that they would just as likely get off on this futility as not.


Being the wise a$$ that I am, I'd go in anyway ...


Entropy3000 said:


> He runs the risk of the police picking him up.


... and risk the arrest. (Growing up in The Bronx has caused me to have more balls than brains sometimes)


Entropy3000 said:


> I see him doing this as pouting like a child.
> 
> At the very least this is a cruel power game she is playing with him of humiliation.
> 
> I have no idea what the current situation is.


It's sad that he has to go through something like this, he seems like a nice guy.


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## Entropy3000

The Middleman said:


> Being the wise a$$ that I am, I'd go in anyway ...
> 
> ... and risk the arrest. (Growing up in The Bronx has caused me to have more balls than brains sometimes)
> 
> It's sad that he has to go through something like this, he seems like a nice guy.


I did not grow up in the bronx but I drank my share of beer there before games.

I would not be waiting outside either. 

But his wife chooses to do this. She is the main problem. I am betting he actully pays the trainer for these "private sessions". 

Yes he is likely too nice a guy for his own good.


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## nader

Everything else can go out the window. Whether she's having sex with the guy or not, she's choosing her PT over the marriage - she essentially said, it's you or the PT! Those are fighting words, and it's too bad she can't unsay them.

It sounds like OP needs to get his legal ducks in a row, yesterday.


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## Stonewall

nader said:


> Everything else can go out the window. Whether she's having sex with the guy or not, she's choosing her PT over the marriage - she essentially said, it's you or the PT! Those are fighting words, and it's too bad she can't unsay them.
> 
> It sounds like OP needs to get his legal ducks in a row, yesterday.


:iagree:


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## joeydinap

Stonewall said:


> :iagree:


HI everyone thanks for all your input! We have had brutal fights, she said its all about me not ever supporting her in something she wants to do. and that this time she is doing something for her and nobody else and is not giving in to me and my insecurities like she has for all these years.
She goes once a week for 30 mins and I am living with that and things are good between us. I really no have doubts at all that she has no interest in him. I have seen some of the other woman he trains.
I hope I am right!


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## Deejo

Glad to hear it.

Hope you and she both get what you want out of your marriage, and find a way to work past this speed-bump together.
Marriage sure seems to work out a lot better when that's the case


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## Toffer

joey,

I hope you're right and good luck


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## The Middleman

joeydinap said:


> HI everyone thanks for all your input! We have had brutal fights, she said its all about me not ever supporting her in something she wants to do. and that this time she is doing something for her and nobody else and is not giving in to me and my insecurities like she has for all these years.
> She goes once a week for 30 mins and I am living with that and things are good between us. I really no have doubts at all that she has no interest in him. I have seen some of the other woman he trains.
> I hope I am right!


I hope that you are right as well! In the end, as long as you are comfortable and happy, that's all that matters.


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## bandit.45

Marriage without mutual respect between spouses is a weak marriage. Keep that in mind.


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