# Am I jaded?



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I have been to several different infidelity forums over the past year.
This one being the most helpful and no nonsensical. 
All the other forums seem to be very "I cheated, but don't be judgmental" .
I sick as **** of these WS wanting sympathy from BS because "He/She didn't treat me right or clean up" 
I wanna slap some of these people! They have no idea what kind of long term destruction they have caused. 
The straight talk I received here has changed my life for the better. Gus and Sokillme included.


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

I hear you man . i take it make you upset to when the BS just takes the WS bull****


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> I have been to several different infidelity forums over the past year.
> This one being the most helpful and no nonsensical.
> All the other forums seem to be very "I cheated, but don't be judgmental" .
> I sick as SH*T of these WS wanting sympathy from BS because "He/She didn't treat me right or clean up"
> ...


Ha do you include my name like that because I am the most blunt? :laugh:

Thank you SS. I am glad I helped you some. 

How are you feeling now?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Yes I agree, how totally selfish and cruel for any cheater to imply that their spouse was to blame. They were the ones who made the decision to cheat, and if their marriage was that bad, then why didn't they do something about it????

I have seen lots of marriages destroyed by adultery, many in my family, and I have seen the pain and suffering it causes the spouse, children and wider family. 

I have NO sympathy EVER for a cheater,and I also despise those who cheat with other peoples husbands or wives.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Ha do you include my name like that because I am the most blunt? :laugh:
> 
> Thank you SS. I am glad I helped you some.
> 
> How are you feeling now?


Life could not be better. EX is gone. Divorce is the best thing I could have done!
I'm glad shes making some other poor soul miserable, he just know yet....


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Yes I agree, how totally selfish and cruel for any cheater to imply that their spouse was to blame. They were the ones who made the decision to cheat, and if their marriage was that bad, then why didn't they do something about it????
> 
> I have seen lots of marriages destroyed by adultery, many in my family, and I have seen the pain and suffering it causes the spouse, children and wider family.
> 
> I have NO sympathy EVER for a cheater,and I also despise those who cheat with other peoples husbands or wives.


I agree! 100%
I just got the "judgement" from some WS at SupportGroups.
Pis**s me off!


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

To me a cheater doesn't deserve sympathy of any kind . and to me cheating is one of the worst betrayal there is . to me they deserve to be left alone to fiend for therself and have sympathy for therself. Because in the end they are the one's that decided to cheat .


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Agreed. I’m fine with being jaded. It’s a good color on me.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Yes I agree, how totally selfish and cruel for any cheater to imply that their spouse was to blame. They were the ones who made the decision to cheat, and if their marriage was that bad, then why didn't they do something about it????
> 
> I have seen lots of marriages destroyed by adultery, many in my family, and I have seen the pain and suffering it causes the spouse, children and wider family.
> 
> I have NO sympathy EVER for a cheater,and I also despise those who cheat with other peoples husbands or wives.


 @Diana7 we should pray for them because in most instances, they will suffer much more than the ones they left behind. If you notice most of the cheaters trade down. They put up with crap from affair partners that they would of never put up with before. They lose the respect from family and friends for betraying everyone and all for what? A piece of arse that most of the time ends in uncoupling as well. 

They were tempted and fell into temptation. So they failed, and that fall will spiral them down and lower in every way until they one day see the error of their ways. The left behind family, more than likely, will not be privy to their coming of Jesus moment (so to speak) because they are too broken to mend the damage they finally realize they caused their whole family, but mostly to themselves. 

When infidelity hits, no one wins; but the cheating spouse eventually loses the most! May God have pitty on these foolish peeps because I surely won't! �


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> @Diana7 we should pray for them because in most instances, they will suffer much more than the ones they left behind. If you notice most of the cheaters trade down. They put up with crap from affair partners that they would of never put up with before. They lose the respect from family and friends for betraying everyone and all for what? A piece of arse that most of the time ends in uncoupling as well.
> 
> They were tempted and fell into temptation. So they failed, and that fall will spiral them down and lower in every way until they one day see the error of their ways. The left behind family, more than likely, will not be privy to their coming of Jesus moment (so to speak) because they are too broken to mend the damage they finally realize they caused their whole family, but mostly to themselves.
> 
> When infidelity hits, no one wins; but the cheating spouse eventually loses the most! May God have pitty on these foolish peeps because I surely won't! �


They did more than fall into temptation. They betrayed.
They might just suffer this as well. Ninth Level of Hell, Round 4 is named Judecca after Judas Iscariot, the apostle who betrayed Jesus with a kiss.


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

I think there should be a web site to post the cheaters picture and info on so other people can see what they are getting into with them


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

there used to be a site -- cheaterville, but it got closed down for that (it now is used as Bullyville for bully's). I thought it was a great idea!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> there used to be a site -- cheaterville, but it got closed down for that (it now is used as Bullyville for bully's). I thought it was a great idea!


There was a whole marriage site that really used to plug this. I remember reading about it.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

When I was younger it was the cheater who was jaded,
and scorned. I have seen the heartbreak and trauma that 
selfish loathsome cheaters create. Family and friends have 
suffered. The blame shifting to the BS is the biggest pile of
crap I have ever heard from cheaters. Simple logic resolves
their lies. 

For example at what time during your relationship did 
you tell your SO you were unhappy ? Did you give them 
a chance to work on the relationship ? Did you divorce 
them first and then find someone new ? NO!! You cheated,
lied, and betrayed them. You even placed their physical 
health (STDS) at risk. What gave you the right to do so.
Nobody !! They married you and trusted you. 

The cheaters websites were taken down because of
complaints from a certain group of people. The cheaters 
themselves!! 

Stillsearching your not jaded just free. Glad to hear you are
doing well. Continue to do so and show the ex what they 
truly lost. In my viewpoint that is the best type of revenge.
Karma will do the rest for you.

Sorry for the rant but I understand how you feel.
Have an outstanding and wonderful life moving forward.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*As a BS, if all that my WS's want is "sympathy," then they can readily find it situated in Webster's, located somewhere between the words "sh!te" and "syphillis!"*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Ha do you include my name like that because *I am the most blunt*? :laugh:
> 
> Thank you SS. I am glad I helped you some.
> 
> How are you feeling now?


LOL.

That’s cute.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> I have been to several different infidelity forums over the past year.
> This one being the most helpful and no nonsensical.
> All the other forums seem to be very "I cheated, but don't be judgmental" .
> I sick as **** of these WS wanting sympathy from BS because "He/She didn't treat me right or clean up"
> ...


Nah, you’re not jaded.

You just recognize snowflakey bull**** for what it is.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

niceguy47460 said:


> I think there should be a web site to post the cheaters picture and info on so other people can see what they are getting into with them


There used to be a few of them, but most — if not all — have been shut down.

Found an old co-worker on one of them a while back. Talk about hilarious.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> I agree! 100%
> I just got the "judgement" from some WS at SupportGroups.
> Pis**s me off!


I’d say, “**** ‘em!”, but you might have to wait around in line for a while.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> there used to be a site -- cheaterville, but it got closed down for that (it now is used as Bullyville for bully's). I thought it was a great idea!


Funniest one I ever saw was “she’s a homewrecker dot com” (without the apostrophe).

Think there was a “he’s” version of the site as well.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Every time I see a WS wanting empathy I hear this in my head......

"Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste"

"I'm pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name."


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Honesty is always the best policy. Personally i want to throw up also when i see some of the betrayed spouses excuse foul behavour by saying things like, I wasn't pulling my weight enough, i did not do xyz, with house chores, i was unemployed for a while. They seem to forget we all took vowls for better or worse!


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I remember the old cheaterville website. Does that still exist?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Nope -- it now redirects to "bullyville". They do have a sort-of explanation as to why, but I'm sure it had to do with someone with big $$$ suing them..


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Wow ... Now's there's WS giving sympathetic advice to another WS.
I'm going to go puke now. 
What a silly site that is...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It's hilarious when you see some betrayed spouse with 4 or 5 ddays under their belt bragging about how strong they are to live and stay in infidelity. Anyone that divorces is weak? I'm proudly wearing the I got cheated on and stayed badge? 

It takes a decision (action) to file for D. With R you don't have to do anything. Just stay and suck it up. Roll over and take it. Just stay and take what you're given. Indecision is an easy route but you often get to go through Infidelty over and over like a broken record.

These types call D the easy way out? It's because they don't have the guts to make a decision. When someone else does its threatening to their way of life. They usually will vehemently defend it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Interesting thread on judgement, less on infidelity really... that is just the example given here

Maintaining a balanced fairness can seem like walking a tightrope. 

It's just as easy to carry an air of moral superiority as it is to lean the other way and be an enabler. 

Hard to do and keep one's ego out of the way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> It's hilarious when you see some betrayed spouse with 4 or 5 ddays under their belt bragging about how strong they are to live and stay in infidelity. Anyone that divorces is weak? I'm proudly wearing the I got cheated on and stayed badge?
> 
> It takes a decision (action) to file for D. With R you don't have to do anything. Just stay and suck it up. Roll over and take it. Just stay and take what you're given. Indecision is an easy route but you often get to go through Infidelty over and over like a broken record.
> 
> These types call D the easy way out? It's because they don't have the guts to make a decision. When someone else does its threatening to their way of life. They usually will vehemently defend it.


I agree, I think it takes far more guts to end a marriage because of cheating or other very serious things than staying. Staying is more passive, going is far more scary due to the knowledge that there will be a lack of money, maybe loosing your home, loosing your married status, dealing with hurting children, bringing up children largely alone, having to tell everyone, going through a divorce etc etc. 
I honestly think that many stay out of fear of being alone, fear of loosing what you have had, fear of lack, fear of what people will say, fear of the unknown. 
Leaving and divorcing is definitely NOT the easy way out after cheating.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I found this one recently.

cheaterreport.com


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> It's hilarious when you see some betrayed spouse with 4 or 5 ddays under their belt bragging about how strong they are to live and stay in infidelity. Anyone that divorces is weak? I'm proudly wearing the I got cheated on and stayed badge?
> 
> It takes a decision (action) to file for D. With R you don't have to do anything. Just stay and suck it up. Roll over and take it. Just stay and take what you're given. Indecision is an easy route but you often get to go through Infidelty over and over like a broken record.
> 
> These types call D the easy way out? It's because they don't have the guts to make a decision. When someone else does its threatening to their way of life. They usually will vehemently defend it.


Agree 100%.

When I see them trying to delude themselves by claiming how 'strong' they are for reconciling and how 'weak' those who choose to divorce are, I always have to chuckle and roll my eyes. Anything that gets you through the night, I guess. 

Then you see these* same *people spending the next year or two looking for support because their cheater has continually trickle-truthed them and they keep finding out more lies they were told on D-Day by the cheater they were so 'strong' to stay with. Many find out their cheater never really cut off contact with their affair partner like they said they would, and others find out the affair simply went further underground and never stopped. Often, you see a good amount of them come back a few years later claiming they just caught their cheater AGAIN in yet *another *affair. Some BS's stay with serial cheaters who screwed them over royally for years, and they wear their cheater's disrespect for them like some kind of badge of honor and are STILL posting loudly and often on infidelity boards years and years later, trying to prove to the world how _successfully_ 'reconciled' they supposedly are. It's really just kind of pitiful to watch.

I don't think people choosing to divorce are 'weak' at all. I actually admire them for retaining their dignity and self respect and standing by their convictions, rather than desperately clinging to someone who treated them like something they stepped in that stuck to their shoe. No thanks.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> It's hilarious when you see some betrayed spouse with 4 or 5 ddays under their belt bragging about how strong they are to live and stay in infidelity. Anyone that divorces is weak? I'm proudly wearing the I got cheated on and stayed badge?
> 
> It takes a decision (action) to file for D. With R you don't have to do anything. Just stay and suck it up. Roll over and take it. Just stay and take what you're given. Indecision is an easy route but you often get to go through Infidelty over and over like a broken record.
> 
> These types call D the easy way out? It's because they don't have the guts to make a decision. When someone else does its threatening to their way of life. They usually will vehemently defend it.


Very true. I'd love to see someone post this over at SI. But I have a feeling they would be banned and the post would be closed within the hour.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Very true. I'd love to see someone post this over at SI. But I have a feeling they would be banned and the post would be closed within the hour.


Outlier!! Sad but true. :grin2:

Have you ever noticed that when a *newly* betrayed wife posts her horror story in JFO and she says she wants to stay and work it out, they all jump all over themselves telling her how it can be done but takes a lot of time?

But if that *same* BW starts out saying she's not staying and is divorcing his ass, you see some of them telling her to "wait 6 months before making such an _important decision._" LOL...they never say that crap to anyone who says they want to reconcile. I honestly think that maybe it makes those who stayed feel better about themselves when others make the same decision, because that validates their choice to stay when others also do it.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I don't think people choosing to divorce are 'weak' at all. I actually admire them for retaining their dignity and self respect and standing by their convictions, rather than desperately clinging to someone who treated them like something they stepped in that stuck to their shoe. No thanks.


Too many generalizations...I am R after 5 years and doing very good. I absolutely do not think that those BS that choose D route are any weak at all, I respect their choice and D is hard, but I sure as hell dont believe for one second that they are better than me because I chose to R...I gave my CS a 2nd chance and chose forgiveness, and what is so wrong and weak about that? 
Since her A I earn almost twice what I did back then, gotten 2 promotions, have awesome hobbies which I totally enjoy and i don't have much regret or neither am I consumed daily by her A....the A was on her, and she has also endured a lot of difficult therapy since then, as well as other life health hardships....she can hardly be recognized as whom she was before her A.
Yes I will never trust blindly like before , and I now know I should never had to begin with. I could go on and on about other ways my thinking is now different but in essence am a big believer what doesnt kill you makes. you stronger, and that really applies whether R or D.
Infidelity decisions are totally and completely the BS choice to live with. 

I fail to see how generalizing either R or D are of any value....I personally feel I will never know what goes on inside another couples marriage, or the relationship dynamics, to really see either decision as strong or weak, plus there aren't even any valid statistical data about tge well being outcome of the BS route in either choice


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

"I fail to see how generalizing either R or D are of any value" Until the next A.
Well there is valid statistical data about the WS doing it again. 
Maybe you are in the very slim percentage that R actually has worked. 
Maybe your WW is different than all the rest. 
"Yes I will never trust blindly like before" to some of us that's not a marriage. 
So for me, you settled. I been there. I understand that completely, but mine cheated again after 8 years of R.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> "I fail to see how generalizing either R or D are of any value" Until the next A.
> Well there is valid statistical data about the WS doing it again.
> Maybe you are in the very slim percentage that R actually has worked.
> Maybe your WW is different than all the rest.
> ...


100% agree.

Hell, just look at all the posts on infidelity boards from supposedly 'reconciled' BSs that show up all the time, with thread titles such as, "He did it again!," or "I'm back..," or, "Reconciled 6 years now and just caught her again," or "Can't believe I'm here again..." and the endless list goes on. All those cheaters who supposedly 'worked so hard' to prove their worth to their BS and went through all that magical therapy - and yet, here they are getting caught *again*. 

Sadly StillSearching, as you discovered, your situation wasn't unique at all and I agree with you that TRUE and LASTING reconciliation with a cheater is *rare*.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> Hell, just look at all the posts on infidelity boards from supposedly 'reconciled' BSs that show up all the time, with thread titles such as, "He did it again!," or "I'm back..," or, "Reconciled 6 years now and just caught her again," or "Can't believe I'm here again..." and the endless list goes on. All those cheaters who supposedly 'worked so hard' to prove their worth to their BS and went through all that magical therapy - and yet, here they are getting caught *again*.
> 
> Sadly StillSearching, as you discovered, your situation wasn't unique at all and I agree with you that TRUE and LASTING reconciliation with a cheater is *rare*.


So rare that I no longer support it.
No situation is unique. 
That's what I try to get across to BS everywhere.
Every BS thinks their situation is unique....nope, sorry.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> I have been to several different infidelity forums over the past year.
> This one being the most helpful and no nonsensical.
> All the other forums seem to be very "I cheated, but don't be judgmental" .
> I sick as **** of these WS wanting sympathy from BS because "He/She didn't treat me right or clean up"
> ...


Well I won't lie. I have had a thought or two about how people on this board think about cheating... and chase off those who don't fit the script. The WS I have seen don't want sympathy (not here clearly since they would not get the time of day) but understanding. For whatever reason, our promise to love, cherish and everything we promised when we (the universal we) married play second fiddle to forsaking all others genitals. 

I am sympathetic to a person who has tried and tried, and meets someone. While they have felt lonely, neglected and pulling all the marital weight, they find some human connection. It's clearly not ideal. But I don't think it deserves tarring and feathering either.

Cheating can cause destruction, though again, I won't lie, it would not devastate me the way it seems some of you. Old school puritanical sexual views? I don't know. But so can marital neglect, or anger or whatever else... But somehow cheating is The Only Thing for this board's population. I get it. It is very simple (simplistic) to be able to blame one party and heap pain on them. But it is not always right.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

There should definitely be a distinction between remorseful and repent cheaters and the remorseless, continual cheater script cheaters.

I also have a little more sympathy, without condoning, for people who have cheated in extreme situations.

There are definitely differences between adulterers.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well I won't lie. I have had a thought or two about how people on this board think about cheating... and chase off those who don't fit the script. The WS I have seen don't want sympathy (not here clearly since they would not get the time of day) but understanding. For whatever reason, our promise to love, cherish and everything we promised when we (the universal we) married play second fiddle to forsaking all others genitals.
> 
> I am sympathetic to a person who has tried and tried, and meets someone. While they have felt lonely, neglected and pulling all the marital weight, they find some human connection. It's clearly not ideal. But I don't think it deserves tarring and feathering either.
> 
> Cheating can cause destruction, though again, I won't lie, it would not devastate me the way it seems some of you. Old school puritanical sexual views? I don't know. But so can marital neglect, or anger or whatever else... But somehow cheating is The Only Thing for this board's population. I get it. It is very simple (simplistic) to be able to blame one party and heap pain on them. But it is not always right.


I get what you are saying. I do believe cheaters deserve a little shame in most cases and tar and feathering in others.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I get what you are saying. I do believe cheaters deserve a little shame in most cases and tar and feathering in others.


Somehow other offenses don't though.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well I won't lie. I have had a thought or two about how people on this board think about cheating... and chase off those who don't fit the script. The WS I have seen don't want sympathy (not here clearly since they would not get the time of day) but understanding. For whatever reason, our promise to love, cherish and everything we promised when we (the universal we) married play second fiddle to forsaking all others genitals.
> 
> I am sympathetic to a person who has tried and tried, and meets someone. While they have felt lonely, neglected and pulling all the marital weight, they find some human connection. It's clearly not ideal. But I don't think it deserves tarring and feathering either.
> 
> Cheating can cause destruction, though again, I won't lie, it would not devastate me the way it seems some of you. Old school puritanical sexual views? I don't know. But so can marital neglect, or anger or whatever else... But somehow cheating is The Only Thing for this board's population. I get it. It is very simple (simplistic) to be able to blame one party and heap pain on them. But it is not always right.


Have you ever been cheated on?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Somehow other offenses don't though.


No. You and I agree about that as well.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Have you ever been cheated on?


Yes.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Yes I agree, how totally selfish and cruel for any cheater to imply that their spouse was to blame. They were the ones who made the decision to cheat, and if their marriage was that bad, then why didn't they do something about it????
> 
> I have seen lots of marriages destroyed by adultery, many in my family, and I have seen the pain and suffering it causes the spouse, children and wider family.
> 
> I have NO sympathy EVER for a cheater,and I also despise those who cheat with other peoples husbands or wives.


I have also seen marriages destroyed by non sexual neglect, disrespect, anger, low self esteem... Why not do something about it? Like what? Try and try? There is a whole lot baked into marriage. Money, kids, dwellings. But for some reason, anything to do with sex is evil. Whatever.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have also seen marriages destroyed by non sexual neglect, disrespect, anger, low self esteem... Why not do something about it? Like what? Try and try? There is a whole lot baked into marriage. Money, kids, dwellings. But for some reason, anything to do with sex is evil. Whatever.


I guess we consider it evil because it's the most personal. 
It's the most intimate part of our lives.
It's directed at our intimate vulnerabilities. 
So yea....whatever.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> I guess we consider it evil because it's the most personal.
> It's the most intimate part of our lives.
> It's directed at our intimate vulnerabilities.
> So yea....whatever.


Different strokes. I see the other side. Not everyone feels vulnerable around sexuality nor feels it is the end all of intimacy. For many, it is AN expression of intimacy, not THE expression. So when THEIR intimate needs are not met, I can see feeling pretty damned awful. Been there. It's not fun.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Different strokes. I see the other side. Not everyone feels vulnerable around sexuality nor feels it is the end all of intimacy. For many, it is AN expression of intimacy, not THE expression. So when THEIR intimate needs are not met, I can see feeling pretty damned awful. Been there. It's not fun.


Ok I got ya.
I said MOST intimate.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> Ok I got ya.
> I said MOST intimate.


Bear in mind that it is not the MOST intimate for many people. It is simply one possible intimate EXPRESSION.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

StillSearching said:


> "I fail to see how generalizing either R or D are of any value" Until the next A.
> 
> Well there is valid statistical data about the WS doing it again.
> 
> ...


I see that trusting blindly should be avoided in general and not just within marriage....I dont see why not completely trusting a spouse to be perfect makes it "not a marriage"....that's wishful thinking to expect your spouse , if say married 60 years in example, to behave completely flawless and never screw up....
Given enough time people will do stupid stuff...and I'll repeat it a million times, it could be someone other than your spouse....could be a son, brother, etc....betrayal is not confined to marriages


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I see that trusting blindly should be avoided in general and not just within marriage....I dont see why not completely trusting a spouse to be perfect makes it "not a marriage"....that's wishful thinking to expect your spouse , if say married 60 years in example, to behave completely flawless and never screw up....
> Given enough time people will do stupid stuff...and I'll repeat it a million times, it could be someone other than your spouse....could be a son, brother, etc....betrayal is not confined to marriages


I trust my husband implicitly. I trust him to be a fallible human, like I am.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have also seen marriages destroyed by non sexual neglect, disrespect, anger, low self esteem... Why not do something about it? Like what? Try and try? There is a whole lot baked into marriage. Money, kids, dwellings. But for some reason, anything to do with sex is evil. Whatever.


Other issues can be worked out or made a decision about jointly, even leading up to divorce.

My wife cheats on me and she exposes me to another sex partner against my will or even choice.

She would defile me and that pisses me off at peak levels.

I had too many choices taken away as a child to ever put up with some **** head that thinks ****ing around with my trust and intimacy is fun.

Not even mentioning the risk of diseases or paternity fruad, which anyone with the ability to rationalize, knows are very real possibilities even if low chance.

That also doesn't even scratch the surface of folks, like me, who are far more spiritual in nature than anything else.

Other problems are problems and can definitely damage or end a marriage but cheating has some unique damaging capability.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So, an interesting thing inline with what Nobody Special is saying, in many other cultures infidelity is not a big deal. I mean, some will still divorce over it, but I have been around people from certain regions of Africa for example where anger/wrath in the marriage is deemed worse than infidelity.

Cultures are just different, ours takes infidelity pretty seriously, but we have been slow to respond to abuse, anger, abandonment, etc.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Saying that all cheating is the same is like saying all theft is the same, which is not the case. Think about the degrees of theft from stealing a pack of crackers or stealing a car. It's all wrong, but some of it is less wrong than others.

I can see different degrees of wrongness with cheating. If someone has been in a sexless, loveless relationship for years and cheats, it's wrong, but the underlying reasons provide some explanation as to how it got to that point. Then there's the cheating where someone is in a good relationship but finds the illicit nature of an affair exciting and thrilling. In that case, the underlying reason for the affair is that the cheater is a scumbag.

So while I think all cheating is wrong, I don't think all cheaters are necessarily irredeemable. If someone cheats because they believed their marriage to be dead and a marriage in name only, I think that person has a chance of turning things around. But if someone cheats because they want thrilling sex, that's a more fundamental flaw and likely won't change.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Other issues can be worked out or made a decision about jointly, even leading up to divorce.


The truth is that there are many things that one spouse can unilaterally that effects the other.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> The truth is that there are many things that one spouse can unilaterally that effects the other.


You will find no argument about that from me. Introducing an unwanted and unknown sex partner has unique damages that I have already posted.

Your points have validity. Cheating, however, does have some differing impacts than other betrayals.

I frame it as abuse and I, in no way, minimize any form of abuse.

I absolutely agree with you that cheating is not even close to the only, or even worse, form of marital abuse. It does easily rank in the top 5 in my view.

I have seen far more malevolent intentions besides a stupid, drunken one off or even an idiotic, short lived fling. Each of those are still devastating but mostly not filled with malevolence or extreme disregard for the betrayed spouse.

LTA's are definitely top notch scum behavior.

I've actually advised more divorces over other forms of abuse besides infidelity.

I have observed that with honesty and a willingness from both parties to work on the marriage, infidelity is often overcome.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> You will find no argument about that from me. Introducing an unwanted and unknown sex partner has unique damages that I have already posted.
> 
> Your points have validity. Cheating, however, does have some differing impacts than other betrayals.


Yes, different behaviors have different impacts.



> I frame it as abuse and I, in no way, minimize any form of abuse.
> 
> I absolutely agree with you that cheating is not even close to the only, or even worse, form of marital abuse. It does easily rank in the top 5 in my view.


Well I'll get no agreement here. But there is a high degree of abuse shouting on this board. Too much. Yes, saying cheating is abuse minimizes real abuse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes, different behaviors have different impacts.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'll get no agreement here. But there is a high degree of abuse shouting on this board. Too much. Yes, saying cheating is abuse minimizes real abuse.


You might disagree that cheating is abuse but that could be, and has been, the topic of other threads.

I view it as at least emotional abuse.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes, different behaviors have different impacts.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'll get no agreement here. But there is a high degree of abuse shouting on this board. Too much. *Yes, saying cheating is abuse minimizes real abuse*.


That's down right just .................. not educated.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> That's down right just .................. not educated.


It could just be her POV is just radically different and she can't comprehend it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> You might disagree that cheating is abuse but that could be, and has been, the topic of other threads.
> 
> I view it as at least emotional abuse.


It CAN be part of a system of emotional abuse. By itself, sorry, don't agree. The biggest problem with placing cheating in its own camp, an order of magnitude more heinous than other bad things, is that it actually makes reconciliation HARDER and less likely at all, let alone sustainable. If the cheater is heaped with singular blame, the issues in the marriage won't be addressed.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> It could just be her POV is just radically different and she can't comprehend it.


I never would have said it on a person's personal coping thread. How that person views infidelity is more important than my view. But more than once I have wanted to....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> It CAN be part of a system of emotional abuse. By itself, sorry, don't agree. The biggest problem with placing cheating in its own camp, an order of magnitude more heinous than other bad things, is that it actually makes reconciliation HARDER and less likely at all, let alone sustainable. If the cheater is heaped with singular blame, the issues in the marriage won't be addressed.


I've actually dealt with this a lot in real life.

Cheating is a bullet or bomb wound where other marital issues are usually more like cuts and contusions.

That is experience talking. I have forgiven and worked through many issues including abuse in my own marriage but infidelity is an immediate death sentence for us. I have no patience for it.

If Mrs C had a drunken slip, we might work it out but it would be a serious wound.

Many don't feel as you that infidelity isn't that big of a deal but you are also from an alien culture compared to most.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I've actually dealt with this a lot in real life.
> 
> Cheating is a bullet or bomb wound where other marital issues are usually more like cuts and contusions.
> 
> ...





ConanHub said:


> I've actually dealt with this a lot in real life.
> 
> Cheating is a bullet or bomb wound where other marital issues are usually more like cuts and contusions.


This is my point. These are true FOR YOU. But for others "other marital issues" are a HUGE deal. The fact that one person gets to unilaterally decide what issue IS and IS NOT a huge deal IS the problem. It is a problem that have left many men baffled with walkaway wife syndrome., scratching his head thinking it wasn't "that bad". Dead and broken by a thousand cuts is still dead.



> That is experience talking. I have forgiven and worked through many issues including abuse in my own marriage but infidelity is an immediate death sentence for us. I have no patience for it.


There is NOTHING wrong with having your boundaries wherever they need to be for you. I also have experience with cheating. And somehow it completely failed to wreck me. 




> If Mrs C had a drunken slip, we might work it out but it would be a serious wound.
> 
> Many don't feel as you that infidelity isn't that big of a deal but you are also from an alien culture compared to most.


I am from an alien culture? I live in freaking New England. I know quite a few people who share my views, and think really that this board is a tiny, self-selecting group of opinion singularity on a few issues, including this one.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> This is my point. These are true FOR YOU. But for others "other marital issues" are a HUGE deal. The fact that one person gets to unilaterally decide what issue IS and IS NOT a huge deal IS the problem. It is a problem that have left many men baffled with walkaway wife syndrome., scratching his head thinking it wasn't "that bad". Dead and broken by a thousand cuts is still dead.
> 
> 
> There is NOTHING wrong with having your boundaries wherever they need to be for you. I also have experience with cheating. And somehow it completely failed to wreck me.
> ...


I was talking about your personal, marital culture. It is very alien to most and I can't help but believe it influences your thinking on sexual behavior.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am also referencing dozens of real life people I have dealt with personally and their reaction to being cheated on.

Both men and women have been very devastated, even suicidal, over being cheated on.

I would be nowhere near suicidal or destroyed but I can't deny that most of the people I dealt with were.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I was talking about your personal, marital culture. It is very alien to most and I can't help but believe it influences your thinking on sexual behavior.


It is alien to some. I would not go all the way to most. As I said, I think this place is, itself, a small microcosm of thought. But what influences what? My thinking probably drove lifestyle choices not the other way around.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I am also referencing dozens of real life people I have dealt with personally and their reaction to being cheated on.
> 
> Both men and women have been very devastated, even suicidal, over being cheated on.
> 
> I would be nowhere near suicidal or destroyed but I can't deny that most of the people I dealt with were.


I am sorry for them. It does not have to be that way.


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