# Ok, so where do I go from here?



## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

I have loved and been in love with my husband since I was a teenager. We have been married for 28 years, have a lovely home and grown children and until very recently he was the only person for me. 

Now I have read other threads about women who fall in love with another man and see how they are told to do their part, but fact is, I did, but I was the only one who did. I communicate very well and have always made my needs and wants quite clear to my husband, but he claims he cannot multitask and so I end up feeling like I am this object that he gets out when he wants to play and then I just have to go back wherever the hell he puts me until next time. Inbetween the hot sex weekend, or whatever, he does not touch me, kiss me, talk to me. I'm fact it is as if I do not exist, until he wants sex or we go on holiday.

The sex is interesting, but he shares his fantasies with me and we try and play in ways exciting to him, however my need for play and love making in this area are not met. I also always have to innitiate sex. He never does. I have a high sex drive, so he doesn't bother with even trying to seduce me.

I have always been his best friend, confidante, no 1 supporter, but I have spent most of my life taking care of myself, being there for myself, going through tough times by myself. It is not as if I do not communicate my needs clearly. When our second child died in utero I explained to him the loss I felt, the need I had for him to hold me, but he asked his mum about it and she told him to ignore me because I was just looking for attention, so he did. I had severe depression and became suicidal, but all he did was complain that I had no sex drive and that I didn't care about myself or the house anymore. Years later he would tell people he should've taken our son and left me because I was a horrible mother, when I can not even really remember those dark days anymore. I know I must have clothed and fed our son, but I can honestly not remember. I do remember crying for 5 days solidly before trying to kill myself and he never once asked me why or whether I was ok. He is quite content for me to go my own way and do my own thing, as long as I am available when he needs me and don't expect anything from him. Then I am hard work. 

At one stage his brother suggested he beat me to "fix" me, so he tried, but he is not a violent kind of person and he became disgusted with his own behaviour, but blamed me for "making" him do it.

He also had an emotional affair with my best friend. I never asked the details, I was by then so convinced everything was my fault that all I could think of was how to change myself to make up for whatever drove him away from me.

We have been in marriage counseling 4 times. Each time he walks out the moment there is the remotest suggestion that he might have to change some of his ways to be there for me too. He tells me we go there to "fix" me. 

I became very angry about all this, and was for a while a very angry person, but I have since dealt with it and I am at peace with myself now. This is off course another thing he holds against me now, because anger is unacceptable as an emotion. He gets angry though, I am not allowed to. 

So then I met this guy and he made me feel great. I did not have a physical affair with him, but it went from being friends to a point where I realised I was falling in love. When I realised the relationship had gone from being friends to this other state I told my husband that I felt our relationship needed some work and that I wanted him to fall in love with me again, but he told me that crap is only for when you are dating. I then started seducing my own husband, trying to get him to fall in love with me again, but although the sex was regular, nothing else changed. I finally told him about this guy and how he made me feel and how I used to feel like that about him (my husband), but that I can't keep doing all of the work in the relationship anymore, but he still didn't listen to what I was asking from him. 

Instead of focusing on us he decided he had to "cure" me of this need for being in love and told me to stop listening to music, reading and writing poetry (which I have always done), and he took every means I had of communicating with this guy away. Now I understand the last part, but the rest?! How does he win me by insisting I remove my need for romance out of my life?!

And don't think it isn't as if he doesn't enjoy romance, he just can't be bothered doing the work. If I seduce him, do the whole romantic thing, he loves it, but I have to do every damn thing, including bringing myself to orgasm at the end of the night!!!!!

I have suggested to him that he should buy a few books and study the issue of us and my needs with the same fervour he gives to other things in which he is interested, but he paid no attention to me. 

I feel as if this other guy, who is a lot like me, has shown me who I am. That it's ok to be me. My husband fell in love with me this way, then wanted to change everything about me, and I have been an alien to myself for years. But this other guy, he celebrates everything about me. He likes me just the way I am. 

Now this is not the first guy to have ever fallen for me. My husband loves the fact that so many men find me attractive and desirable, he feels flattered, but he has always been content in the knowledge that I was his, his loyal dog who would follow him everywhere and do anything to keep him with me. I have changed now, we cannot go back to that as I refuse to be with someone who makes me feel like an object. Those qualities he fell in love with, those same qualities other men admire in me, those qualities are the same ones I am not allowed to have unless he wants me to have them, when he wants me to have them. Be intelligent, unless you disagree with me, be passionate, but only when I want it, be sexy, but only at my whim. I am not a thing that can be put in a box and taken out at his whim, and I am out of the box now and never going back in. 

So now I am ready to leave. I do not plan on running after this other guy and recently (after hubby gave my phone back so I can do it) told both of them this in no uncertain terms. I know there are chemicals involved in my interaction with the other guy, so I don't trust my emotions on this one, but I also know I can no longer continue in a relationship with someone I love but who doesn't actually see or hear me. Doesn't realise that I can't switch who I am on and off at his whim. 

Problem is now hubby has decided to get his act together. I want to be fair to him and give him another chance, but I also ask myself why should I? I have a million reasons why I still love him and I find him attractive and hot too, and we have a good life together if I want a housemate only with benefits, and we have our lovely children, who will be very upset if I leave, but inside my heart I don't feel that loving feeling for him anymore. In part this is because the other guy and the acceptance from him still occupies my mind a lot, however I know in time that will pass, but the biggest part of me is asking the question, how long before we go back to the way it was before? If he wouldn't consider change even when I begged him, why should I trust his sudden change now? I am too old to spend another 26 years with someone who makes me hate myself. 

So I put this issue out there to you who are not as emotionally involved as I am; what would you advise I do?  I am really confused.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

PS: Please don't tell me to forgve him for everything he did and start anew because that is not an issue. I mentioned issues only as examples of how our life together has been. He, however, does not forget nor forgive.


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## Izzie (Aug 17, 2012)

Wow... That's a lot of information to digest... What culture are you? I'm just curious.

Many people may disagree with me but I think you should get out. I like for people to stay married but you need to be happy and depression free. Your children are grown. The deciding factor for me is the physical abuse that your husband put you through. That was just crazy! You're having a nervous breakdown and he beat you to "fix you"?! What??!!! You are also being belittled and enduring emotional abuse. This is not normal Lady! I doubt he still loves you or he wouldn't have an EA with your BEST FRIEND. Sounds like it's just more convenient for him to keep you around. Who wants to go through a divorce when you can just cheat? Sounds like you have found yourself and you realize that you are capable of being happy. What's wrong with that? 

I definitely wouldn't go chasing after this other guy. He's just your way out. He just gave you the strength to get your self-esteem back. He is a rebound, but I think your marriage is over. I just hope your husband doesn't try to hurt you if you decide to file for divorce. Be prepared to have a HUGE fight on your hands.

Good luck.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Wow, thank you for that advice. My husband is Dutch but I am French. He seems to be really trying, but I am so skeptical, do you think people can change?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Sandee said:


> Wow, thank you for that advice. My husband is Dutch but I am French. He seems to be really trying, but I am so skeptical, do you think people can change?


He'll stay changed only as long as you stay changed.

When you change yourself, your relationship changes. But if you go back to being easy to take for granted, he'll go back to being ignorant.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Sandee said:


> Wow, thank you for that advice. My husband is Dutch but I am French. He seems to be really trying, but I am so skeptical, do you think people can change?


Yes and no. You have put up with your H for a long time. There is a lot of undoing on your own physch.. the treatment that you have endured is so painful to read.

It sounds like you are such a strong, intelligent woman and I think the question would be IF your H has sincerely changed, is the past behavior something you can truly forgive? There will be hiccups along the way if you choose to stay.. some of those hiccups will trigger hurt from the past. It's a long road to travel, and I think the longer you endured the pain, the longer the recovery. 

I don't like divorce, but you have just gone through so much.. 

Good luck


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

He beat you because his brother suggested it? Then he blamed you for making him do it. I would say his brother made him do it. Big huge line crossing right there. Also not talking about the baby you lost is just plain insensitive. Of course you needed attention you were grieving. I am sorry for your loss. Even if there was not another man involved I would have left along time ago. He needs some serious "fixing" .


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

I do think that people can change but usually it's because they want to change, not because someone else wants them to. I agree with the others here in that your husband is an abuser and an emotionally cold person. Is this someone that you truly want to spend the rest of your life with or is it because of the past years and that you have children together? CanadianGuy is right - your husband needs some serious fixing but he has to want to do it. If he has walked out on all of the other couseling sessions, it's hard to believe that he would be open to doing the hard work that it will take to be fixed. 

My heart is with you. I've known cold, abusive men in my life and it is so painful and difficult to try and understand and love them. I wish you the best in whatever you do.


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## dabdab1000 (Aug 8, 2012)

Life's too short, i'd try counselling on my own so i could get to the root of how i felt and, of course, have that impartial advice.

After all that has been done, you have the right to do whats in your own best interested and not you H's


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## Izzie (Aug 17, 2012)

Sandee said:


> Wow, thank you for that advice. My husband is Dutch but I am French. He seems to be really trying, but I am so skeptical, do you think people can change?


You're dutch? Small world. I was born in Rotterdam.

Sandee I do think that people can change. It usually takes some sort of cross-road or ultimatum like an impending divorce. 

The question you have to ask yourself is this: Let's say your husband does change and things become tolerable, are you going to be able to fall back in love with him? There is a good chance that even if he changes and becomes everything you want him to overnight, that you will hold such resentment and anger towards him for everything he put you through; and I say this from personal experience. It's like that saying too little too late. 

Those are some of the questions that only you can answer


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## AnnLindel (Aug 20, 2012)

I like for people to stay married but you need to be happy and depression free.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I would have left the second he hit me. And I would have never gone back.

So that's my advice. Leave and don't look back.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Your marriage seems to provide a lot of benefits to him, but not to you. He doesn't seem to respect you or treat you well. Leave him and find someone who will treat you better.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> So I put this issue out there to you who are not as emotionally involved as I am; what would you advise I do?


You set the stage completely. You tell your husband that you will see if he really has changed and that you are going to set the standards to test his words. *In other words your husband is going to have to PROVE it with ACTIONS for a long period of time. If he will not agree to this then he is really not ready to change IMO*

I also would include a competent therapist that shows by his actions that he is helping you and your husband go forth in a positive way. 

*If your husband is sincere and is willing to rebuild then you get some help so that you will be able to stick with your plan*. The therapist can help you with setting the plan.

You also need to make a commitment to change if need be. You must trust your therapist to guide you so it is very important that you get a therapist that is very experienced and good in the areas that you and your husband need help with.


Your chances of making your marriage work with just you and your husband is very unlikely. Just look at the last 28 years.* A third party is a must![/*COLOR]


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Thank you so much everyone! Your help and advise is appreciated more than you can ever imagine.*

Please be patient with me as I hear and agree with what you are all saying, but there is inside me the need to be able to say that I gave it at least one more chance, maybe to succeed, maybe to fail, but either way, to enable me to live with myself and my choices.*

To those who asked whether I could forgive him, and to those who suggested I get therapy for myself; I have been getting therapy for myself re this and I have forgiven him for what happened. I have not forgotten what has happened though, and only mentioned it by way of examples of the pattern of emotional neglect that has prevailed throughout our marriage. I have been in individual therapy for almost a year now because I was so very, very angry at him that it was affecting my health and other relationships. I didn't forgive him because he apologized, but rather because I decided not to allow my anger at him to destroy my health and my relationships with my children who were stuck with an angry and depressed mother. I am also on anti-depressants to help me cope. 

The week since I decided to try to save my marriage and get my husband to go to therapy with me has been pure hell. He is constantly telling me I am only looking for excuses to leave and that I am the kind of person who just doesn't want to be happy. I thought about it and almost believed it, because I have been unhappy for so long, but then I realised I have been unhappy for real reasons, not just because I like being unhappy! I want to be happy so much that I am willing to walk away from 25 years to get away from unhappiness. To take that huge step, that is so contrary to everything I always thought I believed in, just to be happy.*

This week I was told not to listen to music and he took my phone to work with him. The other guy texted me one day out of the blue because he "felt" that I was struggling emotionally and my husband read the messages and became so angry that I was afraid to go home. At home he read me the messages, which were only encouragements in my attempt to make my marriage work and a reminder that I am a strong and amazing woman. I could understand why my husband was so angry about the messages, but even if my life was at stake I could not prevent my reaction to those words. Apparently I had this happy, dreamy smile and my whole face lit up. My husband is furious because he says I never smile at him that way, I told him he hasn't made me feel accepted and loved in years. But how I felt when I heard those words was loved, accepted. Whole.*

Anyway...On Friday he decided to organise this huge romantic holiday in the pacific to "fix" our problems. I told him 3 times that I did not want to go on holiday, but he just kept on organizing it. So finally I said if he could spend that amount of money on a holiday then we could afford couples counseling because I think he needs an interpreter to tell him what I am saying, since he seems unable to understand even the simplest sentence that I construct. It's like I'm speaking Greek and he is Swahili! So he threw his toys out of the cot because I don't appreciate anything he does and I'm just looking for an excuse to leave and he basically told me to F-off then. Monday night I spent awake on the couch crying because I realised my marriage is over. If he will not even consider the fact that he needs to change for me too, then I cannot stay. I contacted a friend and asked whether I could go stay with her. She said ok, but then rung my husband and gave him a dressing down about his behaviour. So he tried to ring me and texted me and tried to Skype me, but I didn't want to talk to him. Finally the friend rung me back and said that she believes he does love me and I should hear what he has to say. I answered his next call and he told me he would go to therapy and do whatever it takes to be with me. So I stayed. On Tuesday he bought me a gift, and this morning he started talking about the romantic trip again. I asked him about the couples therapy and he says he bought a book online (that I have been asking him to get and read for ages), and will read it first before "deciding" whether he needs therapy. When I told him we all have to change and grow he jokingly called me a hippie. Then he sent me a lovely text about how amazing I am and today he was texting me and calling me and telling me how he always has time for me. Yeah right*

I am so damn confused! But I have decided I will give him until the end of the year to see what he does. I need to have a definite timeline in my own mind and decided that should be ample time for him to prove he wants this too. I sent him links to several couples counseling groups with good reputations so he has no excuse. If he cannot manage to organise something in the next four months then I will initiate divorce proceedings and end it. No more chances after that. I can live with that, knowing I did try my best to the end. It's important to me to know I tried. I am sure he loves me in his own way and will be devastated if I leave, but I need more than that in my life. I just don't know how to behave now. Do I act as if everything is back to normal? Move his stuff out of the room (my aunt suggested this) to remind him that we have unfinished business, or be honest in my interactions with him, letting him know I am still not happy? *I am not going to ask him again, nor remind him about the counseling, that ball is in his court now, but what do I do in the meantime? How do I behave towards him? I have been seducing him, trying to remind him who he fell in love with, but I am so confused about that now. Do I keep giving it my all until the end, or just sit back and let him do whatever he wants or nothing, as is most likely?

PS: the GIFT was a sex toy!


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> You set the stage completely. You tell your husband that you will see if he really has changed and that you are going to set the standards to test his words. *In other words your husband is going to have to PROVE it with ACTIONS for a long period of time. If he will not agree to this then he is really not ready to change IMO*
> 
> I also would include a competent therapist that shows by his actions that he is helping you and your husband go forth in a positive way.
> 
> ...




I agree wholeheartedly and said as much to him. I mean if we have not been able to resolve it by now then we obviously do not have the tools and skills to do so. I am willing to change again, to deal with whatever comes up in therapy, but only if he is committed to doing the same.


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## Izzie (Aug 17, 2012)

I know this other guy makes you feel good and is a distraction but do not confuse that with love or let him be a factor in the decision you make of whether you want to stay with your husband or not. 

You asked how to treat you husband from this point on. If your plan is to give it your all and try to make it work at all costs for another year then you have to do just that. I wouldn't sleep in another room or refuse vacations. Act like you all first did when you were first dating. Try to forget the past. Continue to insist upon counseling. Give it everything you've got.

I agree with Mr. Blunt. Once you're nice he will go back to being the same. I really don't see this working out, but if you have to try for your own conscience, then by all means do that and good luck!!


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Izzie said:


> I know this other guy makes you feel good and is a distraction but do not confuse that with love or let him be a factor in the decision you make of whether you want to stay with your husband or not.
> 
> You asked how to treat you husband from this point on. If your plan is to give it your all and try to make it work at all costs for another year then you have to do just that. I wouldn't sleep in another room or refuse vacations. Act like you all first did when you were first dating. Try to forget the past. Continue to insist upon counseling. Give it everything you've got.
> 
> I agree with Mr. Blunt. Once you're nice he will go back to being the same. I really don't see this working out, but if you have to try for your own conscience, then by all means do that and good luck!!


:iagree:

Thanks Izzie, I appreciate your advice. I am sorry if I made you think this other guy is a factor in my decision. He is not. Getting out of a bad marriage and running to the first available guy is the worst possible thing I can imagine doing. No. I do not need a man to make me happy, complete me, or support me. It is my intention to take time out and decide what I want to do with my life if it fails. But my first priority is trying my utmost to make it work. I did not refuse the vacation because I was being difficult, but because I wanted to make the point to him that it wasn't going to "fix" me, and he made it clear that, that was his intention. All I need is a holiday and I will be back to my own self. He is now suggesting just a weekend break, not to fix me, just to get away, and I have said ok to that. But don't throw money and gifts at me and think that will fix everything. 

I am really acting the way I did when I met him, but at this stage it really is acting. I am touching him, hugging him, kissing him, being my playful, loving self and I am hoping that eventually the act will become reality, because at this moment in time, I am not feeling those emotions. I am honestly mostly numb and sometimes deeply sad. Not because of the past, but because I don't want this to fail and it hurts me so much that he doesn't understand what I am saying to him. How could be be together this long and he doesn't know me? I don't want to hurt him. I want to be in love with him and love him again. I want to be the one who makes him happy. But I also want more. I want him to be that for me too. To "get" me and appreciate all the different facets of me. Being with me should not be something that is a chore for him or something that involves hauling out his diary. He should not need to pencil in that he must remember to text me occationally, or bring me flowers because I asked for them. I buy my own flowers now. I never ask him for anything, nor expect it. I'm trying to revive the hope in my heart the only way I know how. By reminding myself of who I fell in love with, and why.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Sandee
> 
> My husband is furious because he says I never smile at him that way, I told him he hasn't made me feel accepted and loved in years. *But how I felt when I heard those words was loved, accepted. Whole.**
> 
> I answered his next call and he told me *he would go to therapy and do whatever it takes *to be with me. So I stayed. On Tuesday he bought me a gift, and this morning he started talking about the romantic trip again. I asked him about the couples therapy and he says he bought a book online (that I have been asking him to get and read for ages), and *will read it first before "deciding" whether he needs therapy*. When I told him *we all have to change and grow* he jokingly called me a hippie. Then he sent me a lovely text about how amazing I am and today he was texting me and calling me and telling me how he always has time for me. Yeah right*



Sandee, *it seems that your husband is trying he just has not committed yet to “…do whatever it takes” *(Therapy). Your husband needs to go the extra MILE AND PUT AWAY HIS MACHO PRIDE.

Sandee, you are so desperate for the romantic love that you may not be thinking completely clear. *Your husband needs to improve no doubt about it but you talking to another man when you are so vulnerable is not the best thing for you to do*. I think that you giving your husband some time to change more is a good plan. Remember your words of “…we all have to change and grow”; that means you too. 

You have tasted of the romance and feelings you are starved for from the other man and have not forgot the pain that you have been through out your 26 years of marriage. *Those two facts can make a person forget about the reality of life and not able to think clearly about the future.*

Is reality fair? Not at all? However, you have to consider the best option available for you and your children. Are you going to get a man that is going to give you all the romance and feeling you want when the rough realities of life is presented? It is not a question of IF but WHEN those realities hit. Are your children going to be better off with you and your husband divorced? 

Most women that I have seen that are close to 50 and have had several children have a hard time finding a man that is going to be a great catch. It is fairly easy to get romantic and into all the warm feelings in the first year or so but then comes the reality of the next 10-20 years.. Maybe you and your children would be better off with you being single. Only you can answer that question.

I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to getting more love from your husband but if I am not mistaken he has not been in affairs with other woman or beat you or failed to give you any consideration at all.* In other words at this point your husband has not done anything that would require breaking up a potential marriage that could be the best option if improvement from both sides is employed*. What does your therapist say about you leaving your husband?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Sandee, it sounds to me as if your husband is emotionally abusive. This doesn't mean he doesn't love you, but it means he's so insecure and incompetent with love that he substitutes controlling. I don't know if I'm wording that well or not, but I do know that both of you are playing a role in what is happening.

You're smart to resist believing that any changes are really taking place. I believe from all that you've written that you're seeing an attempt to manipulate and control the situation. However, don't give up your own power! I'd encourage you to stay with your friend (or get a place of your own) until he gets into therapy and shows a commitment and ability to follow through with it if you don't want to find yourself back where you started.


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## heartsdelight (Apr 2, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> .* In other words at this point your husband has not done anything that would require breaking up a potential marriage that could be the best option if improvement from both sides is employed*.


I would disagree. I believe he has done numerous things that would provide ample reasoning for separation or divorce. Emotional and physical neglect as well as physical abuse? Commanding her not to listen to music? Taking her phone to work? That is over controlling. If my spouse tried either of those last two I would laugh. If he kept insisting I'd inform him he could either stop or I'd be pulling out papers. That's unacceptable to try to control you. Before you even worry about your husband signing you up for therapy or something, take back control of your life. This isn't the 50s. Even if he makes more money than you/you are financially dependent on you, you're not his child. He doesn't make ridiculous rules and demands for you.

I echo what others have said. This other guy looks appealing because you are so emotionally and probably physically starved. That's not a good sign. 

Again, don't wait til the end of the year to take steps. Let your husband know that YOU are in charge of you and that you are happy to make decisions TOGETHER (such as a trip) but that you do not need his permission to do something as simple as listen to music or as fulfilling as writing. 

Honestly, it disgusts me.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Sure abusive & controlling people can change with intensive therapy & work. I left my 1st husband after 22 yrs. because he was verbally abusive & controlling...and THAT got his attention!!

He got professional HELP & he is a MUCH nicer person.

So that is my advice if you want to stay with him. He will NOT change w/o therapy which you say he runs away from.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I cannot thank you enough for your advise and insight! I agree with all of you that this other guy is just making me feel good and that I should not be led by those feelings. I should probably tell you that I am a psychology major, so I understand about the chemical experience of falling in love, and although it is a nice feeling, I have not let it decide me. Who knows, I might run off and pick the exact same type of man again?! No thanks. But the feeling that I had, and the fact that I had this feeling, plus the fact that someone else actually saw me and heard me, was a catalyst for my decision to confront the issues in my life.

My husband did something so momentously stupid today that I don't know whether you would believe it if I told you! He decided that he would make me happy by making a fantasy come true "for me" and tried to talk a friend of mine into a threesome with us! :scratchhead: she is bi and has always had a thing for me, but she is also married and her husband would be devastated! The fact is that my husband had a dream about us together and wanted to make it a reality, so he rationalized it by telling himself he was doing it for me? MY fantasy? I don't think so! Anyway, I told my "friend" where to go. She knows my husband had an EA with another friend of mine before, how could she do that to me!  Give the devil his due, my husband is VERY charming. 

And then he tried to pretend he was surprised by my reaction and tried to get me to make it up with her because she was so upset at losing my friendship  what the hell??!! :banghead:

Anyway. I refused to apologise to her for breaking off the friendship with someone who is sexting my husband when I am trying to save my marriage, and I made it clear to him that he should stop bull****ting himself about his motives 'cause I wasn't buying it. 

It was a difficult day for us, because all of our kids came to visit us today and I was pretty annoyed at him (understatement!). I thought it through during the day and didn't let on to the kids, but after the kids left I set him down and we had the first honest adult discussion we have had in years. He doesn't see the point in therapy and can't see why he should change anything, fair enough, he is entitled to that opinion. But at least now I know. He is however not sure whether he wants to let me go or not. :scratchhead:

I am in no rush anywhere and there are things we admire about each other as human beings, believe it or not, so I am giving him a month to go talk to someone about what he wants to do. I have made it clear that therapy, associated by definite and sustained change, is a requirement for me staying. In the meantime I want us to be friends and once he has made his mind up we will go from there. If he wants to try I will try once more, but that is all I can commit to. 

We are both sad, but I am glad I know where we are now. I hope that he will be honest enough to admit that I am not who he wants to be with, so that we can go on from there. And then I am quite happy to share a house and be there for each other as friends, if he is happy to do so. Until one of us meets someone else, off course. It will allow us to still pool our financial and other resources, allow us to get people used to seeing us apart gradually, and it will be less confusing for our kids. Yes the kids know something is up, and we will sit down and explain the situation to them if it gets to that, but the house is big enough for us to house share without issue. And at least then neither of us has any expectations of the other, so no hurt feelings and disappointment. I told him that I do not regret the years together, because they have made me who I am today, and that I hope he realizes that I helped him too. He said I did.

I am glad we spoke as I could see this spiraling into a nasty, no-holds-barred fight with both of us getting damaged in the process. I told him I would be his best-wo"man" when he gets married again. I want him to be happy. I want to be happy too. 

So here we are. I think if he is honest with himself he will come to the same conclusion as I have, sometimes the only way forwards that has any integrity and decency is to let go.

If you have any feedback or further advice for me, I always appreciate it very much! He has decided to ask this friend who sexted his for marital advise instead of seeing a therapist it seems. (facepalm!) well, to each their own I guess. I hope her husband doesn't skin them both.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Sandee, *it seems that your husband is trying he just has not committed yet to “…do whatever it takes” *(Therapy). Your husband needs to go the extra MILE AND PUT AWAY HIS MACHO PRIDE.
> 
> Sandee, you are so desperate for the romantic love that you may not be thinking completely clear. *Your husband needs to improve no doubt about it but you talking to another man when you are so vulnerable is not the best thing for you to do*. I think that you giving your husband some time to change more is a good plan. Remember your words of “…we all have to change and grow”; that means you too.
> 
> ...


Mr Blunt my children are grown up and although I had hoped to be an example to them of the fact that a marriage can work if you work at it, I am no longer happy to be the 90% partner in this relationship. I am sure, as a child from a broken home, that it is ALWAYS better for children of any age if their parents stay married, but I am not quite ready to sacrifice my life to that. I hope that knowing that their parents still care for each other and are friends, will help them cope with it a bit better. Do not think that it is not formost in my mind, but the way this is going now it will end in something nasty, not a legacy I want to leave my kids! 

And yes, my husband has not had sex with another woman that I know of, but he had a long, and intense emotional affaire (and I only have his word for there being no sex) with my married best friend! These things, including being beaten up by him, were not enough to make me walk out of my marriage, neither is feeling in love with this other guy. What is making me decide that it might be time to leave is the fact that my husband will not, even when faced with my impending departure, consider the fact that there was any other side to this marriage than his. So he is always the injured party, and I am the evil wife. I refuse to play that role anymore. It is not me. I refuse to expend energy on someone who can easily ignore me for two months, not touching me, speaking to me or acknowledging me for an offense I was not even aware of committing. I refuse to be married to someone who would let that state continue, unchanged, until I either grovel and apologise, or he feels like sex, at which time he will have sex with me, making sure I understand that he is angry at me not just for the offense, whatever it might be, but also for the fact that he is driven to sex with me by biological need! Apparently the last two month freeze out came about as a result of us differing on the correct approach to adopt towards a woman who cursed at us in the park. He felt I should have ignored her, but I challenged her, asking her to watch her language around the kids. I found out today, that this disagreement was what led to the last freeze. I didn't even know it was anything more than a discussion!

Do you honestly expect me to continue living with someone who punishes me every time I don't agree with him 100%? 

I have asked for counseling and couples therapy. I am always open to embrace any change and suggestion, but I am not a fool who keeps dashing my head against a brick wall either. And right now, he is a brick wall. Do you understand?

My therapist is happy with where I am. She says I have thought this through thoroughly. She knows my husband's side of our issues too so she is unbiased. I first met her when we tried marriage counseling the last time so she is familiar with our story. That is why I went back to her, because I wanted to speak to someone who didn't just hear one side of the story. I wanted to know whether my thoughts and thinking was confused or not because of this other guy.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Sandee*I am sure, as a child from a broken home, that it is ALWAYS better for children of any age if their parents stay married, but I am not quite ready to sacrifice my life to that
> 
> And yes, my husband has not had sex with another woman that I know of, but he had a long, and intense emotional affaire (and I only have his word for there being no sex) with my married best friend! These things, including being beaten up by him, were not enough to make me walk out of my marriage, neither is feeling in love with this other guy.
> 
> ...


To Sandee
I understand more now and NO I do not expect you to live with someone that punishes you every time you disagree with him 100%

I thought that there was a chance that you and your husband could make it work. Your husband said that he wanted to get his act together so I thought that you two had a chance at making it work.“Problem is now hubby has decided to get his act together”

It seems that you have made up your mind and you know what is best for you. You know better what is best for you than I do and what actions your husband has done in the past is very hurtful. If your therapist is a good one and knows a lot about both sides and is alright with you leaving him then I know that you and your therapist are on top of things more than I am.

Are you planning on divorcing him or just separating for a while?

I wish the best for you and I hope that you get some relief!


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> To Sandee
> I understand more now and NO I do not expect you to live with someone that punishes you every time you disagree with him 100%
> 
> I thought that there was a chance that you and your husband could make it work. Your husband said that he wanted to get his act together so I thought that you two had a chance at making it work.“Problem is now hubby has decided to get his act together”
> ...


Thank you Mr Blunt. What I meant by getting his act together is that he suddenly became very nice to me, but as time went on I came to realise two things, firstly that he was doing the things he did as a type of task, which he resented because he didn't really want to do it but felt I expected it (however he would not do the one thing that would actually make a permanent difference, which was go to therapy with me), and secondly, he was doing and saying these things because the fact that another man had fallen in love with me made him suddenly think, maybe she is desirable. He said as much to me when I asked him why he was suddenly telling me how wonderful I was when all of the rest of the time I was not worthy of a good word. However I also realised that the only place where I deserved (and heard) the words of praise was in bed, and I know the sex has always been ok, it's our relationship outside the bedroom that is a disaster. 

I had hope too, I actually still have. Until the day one of us finds someone else, there is always hope. But only if he realises that he too needs to change his behaviour and patterns because they are damaging to our relationship. I am not asking him to change his personality, simply the way in which he deals with conflict and to learn how to have some empathy. Those are both learnt traits. 

I am giving him the month to decide whether he thinks wants to make it work with me, in other words whether he believes he can benefit from therapy (which actually will mean that he accepts that he has contributed greatly to the mess in our relationship). After that we will house share as we can't see the point in adding financial hardship to emotional hardship. Weare both earming an income and the time is not right now to sell our huse as we will lose on the sale due to the economy, but I will do it if he wants to down the track. It matters more to him than to me (the money).It will be hard, but we will try to make it work and if it works we will continue like that until one of us meets someone. If it is too difficult I will house share with my eldest son who will be glad for the finanancial help. We want to remain friends so we will do whatever it takes to remain friends, whether that means sharing a house or not. 

I won't pursue a relationship with anyone for at least 6-12months after this because I don't believe in rebounds and would like to be clear about what happened in my marriage before pursuing another relationship. If ever. Being single is not frightening to me, well not as much as I thought it would be. 

If the other guy really cares about me, he will understand and be patient.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

PS: since our talk last night my husband seems relieved. Almost glad to be free.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

Well we kind of agreed to a 25 day period during which he would decide but he is in such a hurry to go find someone else that he didn't even wait 24 hours before telling me he wants a separation. He tried for friends with benefits but that is not happening. :wtf:

Aah well, we will try to remain friends for our children's sake and our own. We grew up together and we are as close as famiy. But that is a sad chapter in my life closed. 

Thank you for your help.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Wow, he sounds like the narcissist guy I got involved with. UGH! 

I'm so sorry you're hurting right now, but I completely believe you've got a brighter future ahead no matter how things feel right now. I'm not a huge fan of house-sharing usually, because it can create a lot of opportunity for manipulation and setbacks, so I hope that it works better for you than it does for most people.


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Wow, he sounds like the narcissist guy I got involved with. UGH!
> 
> I'm so sorry you're hurting right now, but I completely believe you've got a brighter future ahead no matter how things feel right now. I'm not a huge fan of house-sharing usually, because it can create a lot of opportunity for manipulation and setbacks, so I hope that it works better for you than it does for most people.


Thank you very much Kathy. You are absolutely correct that house-sharing is not easy. I spoke to several people who tried it, and the friends thing and failed. I asked them what went wrong and am going to try to avoid those pitfalls. Can't guarantee we won't fall into other holes, but we will give it a try and if it starts to become something I can see will cause us to become angry at each other then I WILL move. Remaining friends with him is critical to our and our kids' emotional well-being. Yes - He is a very insensitive, emotionally immature person. But then I know that and I have had experience of being in this kind of friends relationship with him. He once ditched me for another girl and then we later became friends again and I supported him through their issues and break up. Whilst I really love and appreciate many of his attributes and personality traits there are some I find deplorable (like being completely insensitive), but I have decided to just accept him as if he is one of those pain in the ass, obnoxious friends you had to live with way back in the day. As long as I don't react to his gaffes or deliberate jabs, we will be fine. Strangely enough, now that I have accepted him being this way and don't have any expectations of him to actually be a husband, it doesn't bug me in the least. But then I have known him since I was 12, so I know all about him. I also have good friends supporting me. His problem is that I am his only friend really, so he needs to go see someone to talk to. 

Anyway, he knows if he tries any of that stuff he will force me to move as I have told him I will not jeopardize our friendship for anything, so he has a huge incentive to behave (both financially and otherwise). I don't do manipulation or that stuff.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Sandee said:


> Wow, thank you for that advice. My husband is Dutch but I am French. He seems to be really trying, but I am so skeptical, do you think people can change?


People can change. The one thing I learned when our marriage fell apart is that if one person can change, the other is likely to do the same.

When you said don't tell me to forgive....this is the only thing that will work.

Resentment is a poison on a marriage and you obviously both have plenty of it. The only cure for it is Forgiveness.

IC and MC can help if you want to save it. IMHO


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## Sandee (Aug 19, 2012)

I just wanted to close this thread by saying we are now divorced and I am in a relationship with someone who "gets" me. I am happy and I am myself for the first time in ages, and being loved for being me. that is wonderful.


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