# Given up



## jayj (Mar 27, 2012)

First timer here.

Well it all started last week after taking the wife out for mothers day (2x kids also), a nice day complete gifts/cards/dinner. Feeling in mood I tried initiate private time with her, well she completely ignored my advances claiming she is too busy thinking about her home work, then brushing me off by saying no private time until after Wednesday.

I felt frustrated, I never force myself onto her or demand sex, it's always me who initiates and even then it's about once a week even if that.

This has been the case in my 9yrs of marriage, earlier years I would try every other day but her constant denial made me change my needs, I don't have a high sex drive but I like touching her.

Now I think about it, why bother with her, I love my kids and she is a good mother but my attitude towards her has changed. I don't bother asking how her day was or what she is up to.

I don't drink/smoke, work out daily in the mornings before work, play football and even coach a under 10's team, my diet is great and my men/women complement me about my tone. I help out around the house helping her with choirs, I can make my own food and I work.

But now I'm not bothered anymore, I really don't care about her, I don't need her but wondered if I was wrong?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

jayj said:


> Now I think about it, why bother with her, I love my kids and she is a good mother but my attitude towards her has changed. I don't bother asking how her day was or what she is up to.
> 
> But now I'm not bothered anymore, I really don't care about her, I don't need her but wondered if I was wrong?


And neither of these statements correlate to her not caring about your needs? Chicken or egg syndrome I would think.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Sorry but I don't think that's much of a reason for a divorce. Sounds like you two need to see a MC and a lot more talking. If you'd like to have sex with your wife more often, talk it over. Perhaps plan for some date nights out with her... just doesn't like like enough of a reason for a divorce.

Divorce is a big deal especially with children. You will be hurting them and your decision will have a major impact in their life, as well as you and your wife.


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## jayj (Mar 27, 2012)

I think many here think I'm talking about a divorce, that's not the case. What I'm saying is my attitude towards her has changed, therefore I'm asking am I the guilty party?

I would never hurt my children, I'd rather die.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Browncoat said:


> Sorry but I don't think that's much of a reason for a divorce.


I am sympathetic to the Christian standard of divorce for infidelity, abandonment, and little else. So if you share that point of view, then I understand. If not, then I don't understand. I think that one spouse systematically ignoring the other spouse's needs for years is a very serious offense. For anyone with a secular view of marriage, I think it would obviously justify divorce.



Browncoat said:


> Sounds like you two need to see a MC and a lot more talking. If you'd like to have sex with your wife more often, talk it over. Perhaps plan for some date nights out with her... just doesn't like like enough of a reason for a divorce.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that, over his nine years of marriage, the OP has broached the subject a few times. And I'm not surprised that it hasn't worked. Off hand, I can't think of any threads on this board where the sequence of events goes:
1. Husband wants more sex.
2. Husband tells his wife he wants more sex.
3. Husband and wife start having lots of sex.

Don't get me wrong. It would be great if talking led to more sex. Sadly, it just doesn't. Sex almost always has to be approached indirectly. Most of the success stories go more like:
1. Husband wants sex.
2. Husband tells his wife he wants more sex.
3. Wife gives husband more sex for one week, then reverts to sexless behavior.
4. Steps 1-3 repeat an undetermined number of times.
5. Husband becomes exasperated and changes his behavior.
6. Wife becomes more attracted to husband.
7. Wife gives husband more sex on a long-term basis.



Browncoat said:


> Divorce is a big deal especially with children. You will be hurting them and your decision will have a major impact in their life, as well as you and your wife.


That's true. But a sexless marriage is also a big deal. And it hurts kids and has a major impact in their lives. Is divorce more harmful to kids than a sexless marriage? Maybe. Probably.

But, the question is moot since the OP has said he's not interested in divorce, only pulling away from his wife and living as roommates. Ironically, this very behavior has a chance of getting him the sex he's been craving for years.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Maybe if we heard more, but what is sounds like to me is that you aren't happy with 1/week. You feel like other women are checking you out, and you feel like you could do better.

I could be wrong, but that's the impression I am getting. If you are getting a divorce based on those factors alone... like I said go see a MC and talk things over with her. See if you can get the change you want.

You may not want to hurt your kids, but bottom line is that divorce hurts kids in a lot of ways. I know first hand (my parents split when I was 4), but it's not just a matter of my projecting childhood pain into my statements... that's just the fact of the matter.

So imo you really should have a compelling reason to seek divorce and from what I've seen you don't have one. My wife and I have sex far less than once a week, and once more... we've worked up to that amount over the duration of our 15 year marriage. Yet despite that I wouldn't consider divorce because I love her and my kids.

So either you aren't telling us the whole story, or if sex is your lone reason I just think it falls short as a justification for divorce.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I am sympathetic to the Christian standard of divorce for infidelity, abandonment, and little else. So if you share that point of view, then I understand.


Yes I hold to a Christian standard for divorce (basically), I'd also throw in (serious) abuse as a grounds for immediate separation and likely divorce if it can't be resolved.

In general though I don't know if the OP has tried to seek professional help though. My standard aside failure to seek that sort of help tells me that they haven't tried hard enough yet.

I know with my wife until we started doing more than just talking about it, but once she started reading books on the subject she really "got it". Not that we have fixed our problems yet, but there was a big change in her attitudes towards sex once she educated herself. I'd like to think that the OP has tried to seriously address and get outside help for himself and his wife before throwing in the towel.

I know first hand what it's like to live in a sexless marriage, for the first 2 years of my almost 15 year marriage we could count on one hand how many times we had sex. Trust me I know all about the reality of a sexless marriage.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I am sympathetic to the Christian standard of divorce for infidelity, abandonment, and little else. So if you share that point of view, then I understand. If not, then I don't understand. I think that one spouse systematically ignoring the other spouse's needs for years is a very serious offense. For anyone with a secular view of marriage, I think it would obviously justify divorce.


Actually, you can make a strong argument that the standard of marriage is not simply avoiding infidelity but avoiding sexual immorality, and that not meeting your spouse's need is immoral.

The abandonment standard also applies. Either way, not meeting your spouse's needs is reasonable grounds for divorce, even for Christians.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That's true. But a sexless marriage is also a big deal. And it hurts kids and has a major impact in their lives. Is divorce more harmful to kids than a sexless marriage? Maybe. Probably.
> 
> But, the question is moot since the OP has said he's not interested in divorce, only pulling away from his wife and living as roommates. Ironically, this very behavior has a chance of getting him the sex he's been craving for years.


I'm not sure if divorce is more harmful to the kids than this type of relationship. Note that staying in this sort of relationship (where one partner habitually does not get his needs met) tells his kids that treating your spouse this way is acceptable. I'll add that many times the root issue is not sex but respect (or a lack thereof).

That being said, divorce takes mature dedicated parents to work together for the best interests of the children. If the W here cannot be respectful of her husband's views now, the odds that she will do so after marriage are even lower.

And, I get that pulling away from his wife has little chance of getting him the sex that he wants. But, that statement misses the point. At this point it's not about getting sex. It's about having done the math and determining that the odds of getting decent sex are so low that he is better off putting his energy elsewhere.

He certainly has other things he could be doing with his time. And a person not providing sexually is not entitled to much from his or her spouse. Sex is one of those foundational things in marriage. You cannot be a "good spouse overall" if you are not providing it and should adjust your expectations accordingly.

ETA: The point is not that it's only once a week. It's once a week maximum, and based on the OP's post it seems like (1) quite often is less than that and (2) is of the "hurry up and get it over with" variety.


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

If you are not bothered by it anymore and don't want a divorce then just go on with your life, enjoy your kids, hobbies, etc.

No judgements from me about right or wrong...besides, at this point does it really matter if someone is "right" or "wrong"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

No, I disagree.
I think you are missing out on the entire possibility of having a fulfulling marriage.

I'm sorry you waited 9 years, but I also think it's only fair to her and yourself (you are denying yourself, not her!) to do what you can to address the problem.

In rare cases, a woman just doesn't like sex. Abuse, or physical pain. Or it's a hormone issue.

Just the quick list
Is she taking hormonal birth control
Have you gone to counselling
Do you go out on dates without the kids
Do you both get enough sleep \ overtaxed at work or home
What has she said in the past when you have talked about it

Do you schedule time for intimacy
other relationship problems?

The list could go on and on...there are many many things besides talking that can help you. Just saying.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

DTO said:


> Actually, you can make a strong argument that the standard of marriage is not simply avoiding infidelity but avoiding sexual immorality, and that not meeting your spouse's need is immoral.
> 
> The abandonment standard also applies. Either way, not meeting your spouse's needs is reasonable grounds for divorce, even for Christians.


Actually, there is evidence that the KJV translation of Matthew 19, allowing fornication as justification for divorce, was mistranslated. The original vulgate offered fornication as an example of an unjustified reason for divorce.

Either way, taking a justification of fornication and expanding it outwards to general sexual immorality has an "emanations from penumbras" quality to it that I find distasteful. Once one starts down that road, almost any marital unhappiness could be used as justification for divorce.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Go about your business, go out with friends, flirt with women, go on weekends trips solo, don't make her a priority. If she loves you, she'll wonder what's going on and try to cling to you. If she doesn't, then you've already improved yourself so that when it's divorce time you can hit the ground running with the next one.


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