# All the Fetishes. All 'em.



## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

I've spent hours looking around on this forum, and there is no shortage of threads where wives feel like fetishes have taken over their sex lives. I guess I felt like I needed my very own thread?

My husband and I have been married for 10+ years. Outside the bedroom, I think we're a great match. But, of course, sex is a large part of any marriage, so problems there can feel like really big problems. 

Lingerie. Before we married, I knew he had a thing for lingerie. Like, wearing it. But I (naively?) thought it was just a kink, something to add spice now and then but not a necessity. I didn't like it, but figured I could accommodate occasionally. Of course, it was much more of a need than I realized at the time. Still, we've worked through it and come to a bit of a compromise. Neither of us is 100% happy, but it works. The compromise allows him to enjoy it on his own, but I won't have sex with him dressed up. To do so creates resentment in me that would be catastrophic to our marriage. And I think I look darn good in lingerie. I'm tall and have a decent body for my age, but I have no desire to wear it for him because as much as he loves seeing me in it, it seems to only light his desire to wear it himself. 

Toys. I have no problem with toys. However, what once used to be an occasional request for anal (for him to receive, not me) has over the years also become a necessity. He often describes it as a deep need that nothing else will fulfill. Again, while it's not my thing I could occasionally do it for him as a kinky addition, but he enjoys it in a way he has never enjoyed me. He gets completely lost in the experience and becomes this person that I can't stand, and again the resentment I feel is awful. He knows I don't like it but has no idea how deeply it affects me. But he enjoys it, so I give in some. And while I could enjoy playing with toys myself, just as with the lingerie - when I do, all it seems to do is make him want it more himself. 

Some time back, he became fascinated with oral toy play (again him, not me). I've always fancied myself as having decent oral skills, but it thrills him to show me that he is so much better. He claims it's not a competition, and perhaps he doesn't intend for it to be, but as a result I have no desire to show off my clearly-mediocre skills on him now. 

On the topic of toys, there are dozens and dozens of them. All shapes and sizes. Regular trips to the store to find one that might be slightly different than the other 99 lying around. A new one will burn in his mind like a child with a new toy - he can't wait to be able to play with it. In the heat of the moment, he'll beg me for it. If I say no, he literally begs like we're playing some coy game. Only I'm not playing! He'll keep on and on til I give in. By then I'm angry and resentful, but he's so absorbed in the "yes" he just got that he doesn't notice. He finishes and thinks it was a great night, while I lie awake fuming that this has happened yet again. 

All of this has gone on for years. Sometimes I think it's more than I can handle, but I am determined to make my marriage work. I say yes when I don't mean it, and feel guilty when I say no. I dread sex because there's always this fear of what he's going to ask me to do this time, and how am I going to answer. I'm sure I miss out on occasions for really good sex because I'm afraid "the other" is going to enter in somehow, as it does so often. 

Now we've added a new fetish. Unwittingly, I may have even contributed to it. On a recent vacation where we were feeling particularly intimate, he started asking about my previous partners and experiences. He's not a jealous type at all, so this was not a negative conversation, we were just talking. I told him some stories, and it seemed to really excite him. We had good sex afterward. Like, really good. None of the other fetishes even came up at all. It was absolutely incredible. I thought we had turned a corner. 

In a sense we did. This seed that was planted in his head of me with someone else took root and grew quickly. Within weeks he was on forums and learning about hot wives and cuckolding, and decided that was for us. He even made contact with some "bulls" and got their pictures to show me, hoping I would be interested. There's a club nearby where this type of thing takes place, and he keeps begging me to go. 

I draw the line here. I absolutely will not have sex with someone else. Not no, but heck no. For a million reasons, but just to name one: I'm a devout Christian and I really feel with all my heart that it would be wrong. What he and I do in our bedroom is up to us, but stepping outside our marriage crosses a line. Nevertheless, it's now a part of almost all our sexual encounters. He talks about it throughout, tries to get me to talk about it, to say someone else's name, etc. When I say the thought simply isn't appealing to me, he says "sure it is, just let your hair down a little." It's like he thinks I'm playing some cat-and-mouse game where I really want it but I pretend I don't so he'll beg. He simply isn't hearing me!

He feels that as long as he's ok with it, it isn't wrong. He's even bought me a book that was written by some theologian that supposedly debunks the "religious myth of monogamy". 

I don't want to fight about yet another sexual fetish. I'm open to lots of things sexually, as he knows from being with me 13+ years. But it feels like he has no boundaries at all, and he doesn't understand why I do. 

I know the answer is to talk about it, but that's so much easier said than done. We've talked for years about it. He knows how I feel, and it doesn't change anything. Talking doesn't do squat for us. His physical desires override any words he hears. He isn't mean about it, it's just that any conversation we have is forgotten when he's "in the mood".

All that said, outside the bedroom he is a wonderful husband. He loves me very much, I know he does, and he shows it in a million other ways. I just hate this impasse we are at. Or rather, I'm at. I generally carry on like everything is fine, because he isn't the easiest person to talk to about stuff, but sometimes I just feel like I'm going to explode. I don't want to resent my husband. I want to love him and respect him deeply. The times when it weighs heavy on my mind, he thinks I'm just pms'ing or have had a bad day. 

No clue how to talk to him in a way that he actually understands. Can anyone relate? Any of you guys on the fetish end that can help verbalize what he may be feeling so I can understand? Wives who have successfully worked through this?

If you've read through this, thank you! And TIA for your helpful input.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Posting again, since you moved it here 

Not a fetish guy and not a woman that has had to deal with this but damn, I"ll give you my 2 cents anyway.

For starters, damn proud of you for drawing the line at the hot wife thing, good job on the boundaries. You gave and gave and it still wasn't enough. So you filled both ends of the spectrum in my book. You more than compromised but you also stood tall when it came to your bedrock values. 

Now for your husband. He is a self serving, immature and inconsiderate SOB. It's one thing to bring things up and suggest them, it's another to throw your own desires and objections aside for his own good. When it comes to all of this, you don't have a husband, you have a dog or large child, with the same level of self-control. 

I'm sorry but I have not patience for guys like this and even worse, guys that would do the opposite of protecting their wife and family but giving them up for self pleasure. Forgive me but I hope this guy isn't a Father?


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> ...For starters, damn proud of you for drawing the line at the hot wife thing, good job on the boundaries...
> 
> ...Now for your husband. He is a self serving, immature and inconsiderate SOB. It's one thing to bring things up and suggest them, it's another to throw your own desires and objections aside for his own good. When it comes to all of this, you don't have a husband, you have a dog or large child, with the same level of self-control...
> 
> ...Forgive me but I hope this guy isn't a Father?


I appreciate your candor. We have grown kids, and he's a great father. I know the snapshot I describe doesn't paint him in the best light, but if he were a total monster I wouldn't be married to him. It's hard to encapsulate an entire person or relationship in one post, so I understand the immediate reaction is, "That SOB!" He would tell you he's very giving, even in the bedroom, because even physically he does always try to satisfy me in any way he can. It's really just this one area of his fetishes where I feel like second fiddle.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Ketiara said:


> I appreciate your candor. We have grown kids, and he's a great father. I know the snapshot I describe doesn't paint him in the best light, but if he were a total monster I wouldn't be married to him. It's hard to encapsulate an entire person or relationship in one post, so I understand the immediate reaction is, "That SOB!" He would tell you he's very giving, even in the bedroom, because even physically he does always try to satisfy me in any way he can. It's really just this one area of his fetishes where I feel like second fiddle.


Grown kids cool, good to hear that and I trust you if you say he is a good Father. I just had the thought of a dad trying to ***** out his wife while, in the same respect trying to raise young children that could be caught in the crossfire when sh$$ like this goes south. 

In that aspect alone is where I drew the line, the other kinks ... to each her/his own.

Seem like you are REALLY open with communication so it's not like, in a lot of the threads on TAM, it's about communication. Talking to him, as you had mentioned, is not going to help. Maybe it's time to start giving him a wake-up call when he goes to far? "Listen, I'm happy to continue to spice things up with you but I have already told you I'm not interested in ______ and I'm tired of talking about it. If you keep bothering me about it when I have made my feelings clear, here's a pillow and blanket and there's the couch"


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Ketiara said:


> .....Before we married, I knew he had a thing for lingerie. Like, wearing it. .....I won't have sex with him dressed up. *To do so creates resentment in me that would be catastrophic to our marriage.* And I think I look darn good in lingerie. I'm tall and have a decent body for my age, *but I have no desire to wear it for him* because as much as he loves seeing me in it, it seems to only light his desire to wear it himself.
> 
> Toys. .... Again, while it's not my thing I could occasionally do it for him as a kinky addition, but he enjoys it in a way he has never enjoyed me. He gets completely lost in the experience *and becomes this person that I can't stand, and again the resentment I feel is awful.* He knows I don't like it but has no idea how deeply it affects me. But he enjoys it, so I give in some. And while I could enjoy playing with toys myself, just as with the lingerie - when I do, all it seems to do is make him want it more himself.
> 
> ...


What I was struck by is your anger, resentment and unhappiness. There also seems a bit of jealousy or something in some of your comments about oral skills and lingerie.

One of the famous lines by David Schnarch is that married couple don't have communication problems, they communicate far too well. He uses the example of a dating couple in a restaurant and on old married couple. The dating couple are looking in each others eyes and talking so much they have hardly eaten a bite. The old married couple are eating without saying a word. Then he has you really look closely at them. Their body language, facial expressions, glances, frowns, and even clearing of throats is a conversation all in itself. He likes to point out that after a decade or so, your spouse will know when you are very angry or unhappy with them, almost to the point of mind reading the non-verbal communication.

I want you to think about that for a moment and reread the portions you posted that I put in bold. Your husband knows you disapprove of his sexual desires, your anger, resentment, and unhappiness.

The Gottmans have studied why some people remain married and others divorce. They have found 
that criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling are a sure sign of future divorce. You might want to think about what you have posted as you read the following and do some introspection. 

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

You say you love him and want to keep your marriage, but your feelings may get in your way. I applaud you for having boundaries on not having sex with someone else. Good for you. You have a right to have sex the way you want it sometimes and to ask for more consideration of your desires. But remember you can't change your husband, only he can change himself. You can change yourself and you can provide him with positive feedback when he does things you like. You can express your preferences and desires, but you can't force him to change.

My suggestion is for you and your husband to get some marriage counseling with a sex therapist who will help the two of you negotiate some common ground, some limits on the frequency of what he wants and maybe open your eyes as to some role playing the two of you might both be able to enjoy some of the time.

The alternative is to have him drift away from including you in his sex life or to have you drift away by not allowing yourself to be a meaningful part of his sex life. The two of you need to start working together to find something you both can enjoy.

Good luck


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ketiara said:


> I've spent hours looking around on this forum, and there is no shortage of threads where wives feel like fetishes have taken over their sex lives. I guess I felt like I needed my very own thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He does take his fetishes very seriously, doesn’t he.
It must be tiring being a wife sometimes. Difficult to know what to recommend but these things tend to get worse with age as more extreme stimulation is needed. Maybe that’s why some men resort to porn as they don’t want to burden their wives with this stuff.

What kind of person that you ‘can’t stand’ does he become? Submissive? Or gay-ish? (Not that there’s anything wrong with that).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Essentially, you're sexually incompatible, and can't find a compromise that actually works for both of you. He can't change what he needs, and neither can you, and you're both frustrated and angry about it. It doesn't matter, really, that you're good outside the bedroom - so are friends! The only true solution I see is to split up so you can both find someone sexually compatible in addition to other areas.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There is a big gap in your sexual interests, and the question is whether there is a way to bridge it. If not, then a marriage with a bad sexual mismatch is going to be unhappy and may not last. 

You are absolutely right to draw lines. Insisting on on 3rd person is completely fine. I know that it is a kink for some, but for most people that is outside what is acceptable. You need to stay completely firm on that. 


As for the rest - the problem is that as you say these are "fetishes" not "kinks". He seems to need them in order to enjoy sex, and that is what makes this a big problem. 

How willing is he to do what you want? It sounds like you are doing a wide variety of things that he enjoys, but how often does he reciprocate?

Have you asked about a compromise? Half the time you play to to his fetishes - at least as far as you are willing to go, but no 3rd parties. The other half he plays to your desires - whether those are kinks, or whether what you want is traditional romantic sex. Each of you does your best to be enthusiastic for the others desires.

An alternating system isn't great, but at least it doesn't feel completely unfair. 


As an aside, his fetishes are not very unusual individually as kinks - something that someone wants once in a while, but taken together and turned into fetishes they seem pretty far out there.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

All of his fetishes seem to be those one may expect of a homosexual man, especially the latest where he wants to bring a man into your bed. I'm sorry, but not normal behavior of a hetero man.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Ketiara said:


> No clue how to talk to him in a way that he actually understands. Can anyone relate? Any of you guys on the fetish end that can help verbalize what he may be feeling so I can understand? Wives who have successfully worked through this?


I'm not quite sure what's the best way to approach your husband but I can certainly relate.

In my last relationship we dabbled in some experiences that make me cringe now. My partner had an insatiable sexual appetite that never seemed to be satisfied with our sex, swinging, group sex or cuckoldry. On the other hand I was not satisfied at home at looked to an open relationship and dom play. At the time I went along with everything because I eventually lost sexual interest in him and felt bad about it but also because I myself had a high sex drive and felt I should take advantage of these opportunities in light of my openness to all things sexual. Our problems were quite complex and the internal and external sexual experiences only compounded the issues.

Looking back now I realize we were both damaged people who were seeking affection and acceptance through sex. He had never gotten over the death of his mom during his childhood and that desperate need for his mom's love and affection was channeled into desperation for sexual intimacy. Likewise my need for recognition/affection that was never met in my abusive childhood was confused with a need for sexual variety.

Since I seriously started exploring my issues stemming from childhood and placed more focus on building a healthy relationship, my sexual interests have changed dramatically. Moreover, I recognize now how damaging these past experiences were to my sexuality. Even now I still struggle with dissociation during sex that had become the norm for me with my ex, as a coping mechanism to satisfy his sexual needs despite my lacking interest.

Edited to add: A good read that has helped in my journey of sexual healing is the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> All of his fetishes seem to be those one may expect of a homosexual man, especially the latest where he wants to bring a man into your bed. I'm sorry, but not normal behavior of a hetero man.


is a panty wearing fetish generally held by homosexuals? I am not familiar with this fetish at all so excuse my ignorance.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

CatholicDad said:


> All of his fetishes seem to be those one may expect of a homosexual man, especially the latest where he wants to bring a man into your bed. I'm sorry, but not normal behavior of a hetero man.


There are some hetero men that have a fantasy of sharing their wife - but agree that these are all leaning towards the homosexual end of the spectrum. Or maybe its a submissive thing?

Almost sounds like an addiction. If you indulged him on the "****" fantasy, I would be afraid that the next fetish would be even more extreme. You aren't comfortable and are starting to resent him and sex. Time to draw the line.

Would he be willing to go to counseling? This obviously isn't working for you.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> There are some hetero men that have a fantasy of sharing their wife - but agree that these are all leaning towards the homosexual end of the spectrum. Or maybe its a submissive thing?
> 
> Almost sounds like an addiction. *If you indulged him on the "****" fantasy, I would be afraid that the next fetish would be even more extreme. *You aren't comfortable and are starting to resent him and sex. Time to draw the line.
> 
> Would he be willing to go to counseling? This obviously isn't working for you.


More extreme than watching while another guy ****s your wife? Holy **** am I sheltered. 

Married but Happy nailed it earlier. OP and hubby are sexually incompatible. Be it cuckold extreme or incredibly prude only in the dark under the covers missionary extreme, people at the either end of the sexual spectrum have a greater chance of not being sexually compatible with their partner.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Middle of Everything said:


> More extreme than watching while another guy ****s your wife? Holy **** am I sheltered.
> 
> Married but Happy nailed it earlier. OP and hubby are sexually incompatible. Be it cuckold extreme or incredibly prude only in the dark under the covers missionary extreme, people at the either end of the sexual spectrum have a greater chance of not being sexually compatible with their partner.


This may sound sarcastic, but its not intended to be so. You may be sheltered (or not), but I'll assume you are ok with math. What's more extreme than watching "just" *ONE* guy screw your wife???

Truly not trying to make light of this. I think @Keke24 had a very interesting and insightful take on what the future might hold.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> This may sound sarcastic, but its not intended to be so. You may be sheltered (or not), but I'll assume you are ok with math. What's more extreme than watching "just" *ONE* guy screw your wife???
> 
> Truly not trying to make light of this. I think @Keke24 had a very interesting and insightful take on what the future might hold.


Yeah I get that.

Guess Im just thinking once you open that door, what does it matter if its one guy ****ing your wife at a time or you are having an entire football team run a train on her?


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

Thank you all for your replies. Several points I appreciate but don't have time just now to reply individually. I'll be back when I have a moment to really address each. Thanks again!


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Wow... you are an extremely tolerant and loving wife to let things get to this point.

Personally? To me he sounds extremely selfish. EXTREMELY. He wants you to do all of these things for him, because he wants it. 

Are they reasonable things to ask? Are they things you WANT to do? Are they things you find pleasurable? 

DOES HE CARE about these questions - or rather just indulging his increasingly extreme fetishes? This certainly sounds like a case of "if you give a mouse a cookie" you give in a little, he wants more, and more and more. 

Another thing that strikes me is that it seems like he makes sex about him, and what he wants you to do to him, or what he wants you to do with toys etc - instead of sex being about sharing something fabulous with YOU. Pleasing you. Making sure YOUR needs are met. 

Instead, it sounds like he doesn't hear you. Nothing worse than a self absorbed tone deaf lover. 

I consider myself fairly open minded and adventurous, with a high sex drive - but your husband's kinks I would find a huge turn off. It wouldn't be in me to indulge them, and I would also be extremely resentful of my husband for pushing for them, ESPECIALLY when I made it clear it wasn't my thing.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

CatholicDad said:


> All of his fetishes seem to be those one may expect of a homosexual man, especially the latest where he wants to bring a man into your bed. I'm sorry, but not normal behavior of a hetero man.


I really feel compelled to point out that no, the H in this case is not homosexual. 

Male Homosexuals don't like having sex with women and he and his wife are having sex, normal or classically heterosexual sex at least some of the time. Homosexual males (as opposed to lesbians) want to have sex with another man. Homosexual men also don't want to become women. Transsexuals are another matter, but he still wants having sex with his wife, so he is probably not willing to be surgically altered or do a complete mental transition.

The guy has some real issues. Probably is either submissive or is ashamed of his masculinity or feels he should punish his masculine self. He may even be bi-curious, but he is not homosexual at all. I would wager that he likes feeling sexually humiliated, which might explain the feminization he engages in. 

If the wife wants to take control now that he has proposed a cuckold fantasy, she can tell him that she will role play with him on some frequency of her choosing but he has to agree to allow her to lock him in chastity and have complete control of his sexuality. 

She could sweeten the deal for him once a month or couple months by dressing him in feminine clothing and role play as a man or she can tie him to a chair or bed, go in the other room and pretend to have sex with another man come back and tell him how good it was and better than he was. She might even be able to overdose his experimentation to the point that he wants to back off. One question she might really want to think about is how much does he want to be in control of his sexual experiences/experimentation.

I really think that she and her H would benefit from marriage counseling with a sex therapist, who might be able to suggest some role playing exercises they could try and report back on to see if they can get his desires under control or at least within the boundaries she can handle.

He sounds like he could use some real therapy, but that is another issue.

He may be a lot of things, but as long as his only sex partner is his wife, he is not homosexual.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> *If *the wife wants to take control now that he has proposed a cuckold fantasy, she can tell him that she will role play with him on some frequency of her choosing but he has to agree to allow her to lock him in chastity and have complete control of his sexuality.
> 
> *She could sweeten the deal for him* once a month or couple months by dressing him in feminine clothing and role play as a man or she can tie him to a chair or bed, go in the other room and pretend to have sex with another man come back and tell him how good it was and better than he was. She might even be able to overdose his experimentation to the point that he wants to back off. One question she might really want to think about is how much does he want to be in control of his sexual experiences/experimentation.



That is a big if.... She has already stated how his fetishes have caused her resentment. She has already stated how he attempts to constantly push the boundaries, irregardless of her feelings on the matter. 

I don't know - Maybe he OP is a dom at heart, and has no problem seeing her husband as a humiliated fem. For me, that would kill any attraction I had left. And again, for me, I would have no interest in cross dressing as a man, role playing as a man, nor seeing the man I married in woman's clothing being humiliated. 

According to the OP "He knows how I feel, and it doesn't change anything." So why should she be upping the game for him? Sweetening the deal for him?

How about he sweeten the deal for her, and stop obsessing and spiraling out of control with these fetishes? Honestly, he is already getting WAY MORE than most wives would be willing to provide. 



Young at Heart said:


> The guy has some real issues. Probably is either submissive or is ashamed of his masculinity or feels he should punish his masculine self.
> 
> He sounds like he could use some real therapy, but that is another issue.


This part I agree with - but I disagree it is another issue. IT IS THE ISSUE. I think he owes it to his wife to get some help for these compulsions, as it is damaging their relationship. 

She is already bending backwards for him (I would have given a hard NO many stages ago), its time for him to put in some effort as well - like addressing the fact that his fetishes are increasing, and at this point doing harm.

She has every right to say enough is enough. This man has very little in the way of boundaries, or consideration for his wife. 

HE needs help.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I shouldnthave said:


> ......This part I agree with - but I disagree it is another issue. IT IS THE ISSUE. I think he owes it to his wife to get some help for these compulsions, as it is damaging their relationship.
> 
> She is already bending backwards for him (I would have given a hard NO many stages ago), its time for him to put in some effort as well - like addressing the fact that his fetishes are increasing, and at this point doing harm.
> 
> ...


I too agree he needs help, but he first needs to figure out he wants to change himself. His wife sounds like she has told him what she wants and made him understand that she isn't real happy with what he is doing. However, that has not been enough so far to motivate him to change himself. It is a shame, but it is what it is.

His wife on the other hand is saying that she wants to save her marriage and that other than "THE ISSUE" he is a good husband and she loves him.

It would be best if he could change himself, but if for some reason he can't then the wife has a choice. Does she want to gradually withdraw emotionally from her husband and marriage or does she want to figure out someway to build their relationship in some way she can live with.

My hope would be that marriage counseling would help motivate him to change, but if he can't do that and the W wants to strengthen the emotional bond between them, then she will have to change, even if we view her as already bending over backwards.

In my marriage when it became sex starved, I at first thought that my wife was a frigid ice queen to refuse to have sex with her husband. It took a lot of time for me to change myself so that I could make her feel loved and cherished, even if she refused to have sex with me. Then she got use to feeling loved and cherished and that allowed us to get marriage counseling with a sex therapist that eventually helped her see that I had changed and if she wanted to remain married she would need to change herself and her willingness to have sex with her husband. The type of sex I am talking about is not at all kinky. The point is that someones one party needs to change themself so that their partner can change. The "wronged" party may need to change first and that is one of the hallmarks of the MW Davis approach to Divorce Busting.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

Hotwifing is only hot if the wife wants it because it turns her on. That's what drives the fantasy, you are the hottest thing in his world, your lust turns him on, and you having sex with another man is the hottest porn he can imagine. 

So if you want to put an end to it, you must convince him that it simply doesn't turn you on, that you are disgusted by the thought of having sex with another man, and because of that, you will never do it. This will make the fantasy lose its magic. Anything else will only make him think that you just need some time to get adjusted to the thought. 

The downside to this is that it will kill the fantasy completely, so you won't be able to use the fantasy in bed afterwards.

And by the way - hotwifing has nothing to do with homosexuality, this is something that often are said by people who don't know what they are talking about.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

The only thing I would add is that it would be funny if the husband then posted a question: 'why does my wife never want to have sex with me?'. 
We only hear one side of the story


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> I too agree he needs help, *but he first needs to figure out he wants to change himself*. His wife sounds like she has told him what she wants and made him understand that she isn't real happy with what he is doing. *However, that has not been enough so far to motivate him to change himself*. It is a shame, but it is what it is.
> 
> His wife on the other hand is saying that she wants to save her marriage and that other than "THE ISSUE" he is a good husband and she loves him.
> 
> ...


I think she needs to out her foot down. Obviously her feelings aren't more important than his sexual gratification. I have never before advocated withholding sex.....

But in this case, I think she should no longer indulge his fetishes, maybe THEN he will LISTEN to her and realize that he is out of control. Maybe then he would realize he is hurting his wife in his selfish pursuit. 

Maybe then he will wake up. And be willing to change - just like his wife has been willing to change for him. 

He needs counseling, individual counseling, they can have marriage, and sex counseling as well - but this issue starts with him. 

And if he CAN'T change... really? What would happen if he wasn't getting big toys up his bottom? Or if he couldn't show off his blow job skills to his wife. What would be the consequences for him? Maybe be a bit less sexually satisfied? Welcome to the club buddy - your wife is already experiencing that. 

I would hope a real wake up call makes him realize he is ruining a very good thing. That his demands are well beyond the realm of normal, and the odds of finding another partner that would indulge all of this, and have a great relationship are just about nil.

Honestly, I think he needs to be told that he is completely out of line with his demands and he needs to get it together.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> Hotwifing is only hot if the wife wants it because it turns her on. That's what drives the fantasy, you are the hottest thing in his world, your lust turns him on, and you having sex with another man is the hottest porn he can imagine.
> 
> So if you want to put an end to it, you must convince him that it simply doesn't turn you on, that you are disgusted by the thought of having sex with another man, and because of that, you will never do it. This will make the fantasy lose its magic.


The problem is... she has told him ALL of this doesn't turn her on, and he doesn't care. He doesn't have a hot wife fantasy. His fantasies are not about her pleasure. 

He has a cuckold fantasy - he wants to be humiliated. Totally different ball game. 

The fact is, there are a lot of men with various humiliation and subordination fetishes / fantasies - but few women who love their husbands find any pleasure in this. Hence "professional doms" etc.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

Ketiara said:


> I draw the line here. I absolutely will not have sex with someone else. Not no, but heck no. For a million reasons, but just to name one: I'm a devout Christian and I really feel with all my heart that it would be wrong. What he and I do in our bedroom is up to us, but stepping outside our marriage crosses a line. Nevertheless, it's now a part of almost all our sexual encounters. He talks about it throughout, tries to get me to talk about it, to say someone else's name, etc. When I say the thought simply isn't appealing to me, he says "sure it is, just let your hair down a little." It's like he thinks I'm playing some cat-and-mouse game where I really want it but I pretend I don't so he'll beg. He simply isn't hearing me!


There is absolutely nothing in the original post that points in the cuckold direction, she wrote nothing about humiliation. He clearly has a hotwife fetish, but it doesn't make that much diffence, because the cuckold fetish is just as much about the female's pleasure, the difference is the humiliation of the male. Religious or social reasons will not convince him, they will only make him try harder, trust me.



I shouldnthave said:


> The fact is, there are a lot of men with various humiliation and subordination fetishes / fantasies - but few women who love their husbands find any pleasure in this. Hence "professional doms" etc.


You clearly don't know much about this, what you are claiming here is absolutely not true!


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

There is also nothing in the original post to indicate he wants this for HER pleasure rather than his fetish.

She said she dreads having sex because he has taken this all way way way too far and wont listen to her.

He enjoys anal more than experiencing HER. He begs, negs and annoys her into things. He shows off his blow job skills as better than hers and won't take a freaking hint.

If I was left "fuming and resentful" after just one sexual encounter - things would change right then.

Instead he keeps asking for more and more.

This guy needs a wake up call like yesterday. This isn't healthy for their relationship. He needs to get a grip.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> There is also nothing in the original post to indicate he wants this for HER pleasure rather than his fetish.


If you understood the fetish, you wouldn't write this. It's all about the wife's lust and pleasure, this fetish doesn't work for the husband without it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I shouldnthave said:


> He needs to get a grip.


As long as that grip is not to show off his HJ skills.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> If you understood the fetish, you wouldn't write this. It's all about the wife's lust and pleasure, this fetish doesn't work for the husband without it.


Okay then he doesn't have THIS fetish under that name, because she has told him repeatedly that she has no interest, and he is trying to convince her to do it for him.

He read up on hot wife and cuckold and wants her to do that for him.

Tell me now how this is all about her pleasure?

He also likes to suck dildos.... That ain't for her pleasure either.

Look - my husband and I have explored swinging and hot wife. I get it when she is on board. That is not the case here in any measure.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

GuyFromDK said:


> If you understood the fetish, you wouldn't write this. It's all about the wife's lust and pleasure, this fetish doesn't work for the husband without it.


That's true but his wife doesn't feel lust and pleasure from having other guys ****ing her in front of her husband. At least that's the indication I got.

These fantasy/fetishes are a two-way street; I have some weird ones too (as does my wife) and if I notice my wife is not really into it, I lose interest for those fetishes fairly quickly because in the end, it is about OUR combined satisfaction, not mine nor hers individually.
At least, that's the ideal.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> If you understood the fetish, you wouldn't write this. It's all about the wife's lust and pleasure, this fetish doesn't work for the husband without it.


And there are most certainly "flavors" of cuckold that involve humiliation of the husband. And there are men into it for their own - needs. I have encountered single men looking for a woman who would get involved with them, and cuckold them - because they want that subjugation. 

Eating the "cream pie" (and from what the OP has told us, I am betting he would want to go there). Some want bulls to show and tell them how they have bigger penises, can screw better etc etc and to rub it into the husbands face. 

Sometimes it includes the husband being "forced" to orally please the bull. Again, I have little doubt the OPs husband wouldn't want to indulge in that as well, given his past behavior. Maybe he will want the bull to have his way with him as well - after all, the OP said he enjoys receiving anal sex way more than experiencing her body.

If it was all about her.. Wouldn't women be the ones running the show? SHE would be the one wanting to being someone else into the picture? Instead there are tons of forums about "how do I convince my wife to cuckold me".

No, this is about his pleasure, has nothing to do with hers.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Bottom line, your H is completely out of line. 

You know, inside your BR fetishes can be ok. There is nothing wrong with having them. 

I am not a big fetish guy, but GF likes a few things that are not my natural bag, but I don't mind. I do these things for her because she likes it. While I am good at it, I could take of leave it. 

But for you, you H is going way too far from my perspective. And you are doing things that you really don't like. And I knew that when you were writing that the hotwife/cuckold fetish was next in line. 

You are going to have to have a really strong clear talk with him that some of these things are not ok and they need to stop. 

He is going to need some type of therapy because he is getting addicted to fetishes. Or it is some type of sexual addiction that has to be addressed.

I did not see if he had asked you to start swinging yet? None of this is inherently wrong, if both partners are into the same things. But when both are not into it, and one is getting bullied by the other, THAT is wrong. 

You are going to have get strong and really tough about this. He has got to wake up or your marriage is going to be in trouble...


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> And there are most certainly "flavors" of cuckold that involve humiliation of the husband. And there are men into it for their own - needs. I have encountered single men looking for a woman who would get involved with them, and cuckold them - because they want that subjugation.
> 
> Eating the "cream pie" (and from what the OP has told us, I am betting he would want to go there). Some want bulls to show and tell them how they have bigger penises, can screw better etc etc and to rub it into the husbands face.
> 
> ...


You don't understand the normal male fascination of the fetish. I know many hotwife couples, and my wife and I are in fact a hotwife couple. I know a few cuckold couples too, and common for all of them is, that the wife's pleasure is paramount for his pleasure. It is a couples game that only works if both spouses get something out of it. My wife wouldn't do it if the extramarital sex didn't turn her on, and I certainly wouldn't want her to - it would be a total turn-off if she did it just because I wanted it. In reality it is just a form of swinging, where she is the only one that swings. Some couples mix it with swinging and some couples like it both ways - my wife and I like this version, so I get to experience sex with other women now and then. And for the record, I'm absolutely not a cuckold, and I hate the term bull. I'm also not homosexual or bi.

Of course there are extremists and selfish people among people with this fetish, both females and males, but they are few, and I don't see any signs that the OP's husband is extreme in any way. He likes to try out different things, but to me it isn't extreme, and in his experience, his wife is up for most of it. So in the end, this is simply a communication issue, they need to learn to communicate in a way so both of them understand each others boundaries.

And you are right, you often see men wanting to persuade their wives into being a hotwife, but this never works if she doesn't want it herself. She'll hate it, and because of that, it won't work for him. The creampie eating is a huge turn-on for a few of the hotwives I know, and their husbands mainly likes it because it turns her on. Most often it's the husband who comes up with the idea of hotwifing, but once they start doing it, the wife will often be the one who's running the show and initiates it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Crazy idea here - but instead of turning this thread into an argument about the differences / similarities between "****" and "hot wife" - let see if we get any more info from OP about what HER husband has in mind. If she comes back.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> If you understood the fetish, you wouldn't write this. It's all about the wife's lust and pleasure, this fetish doesn't work for the husband without it.


dingdingding!

Yah but

SHE has made it clear that it DOESN'T please or turn her on. It DOESN'T make her lust. So...sorry, no dice.

This isn't a kink or hotwife advocacy thread. It's about a woman who DOESN'T want this.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> dingdingding!
> 
> Yah but
> 
> ...


Not only this, which is really good...

But it is not only the HW/**** fetish that she has issues with, it is his issues with the fact that he is not respecting her boundaries about several of his fetishes. 

In fact, it would seem that he is going too deep, at least for OP, with the whole fetish thing in general. It appears that he is at the point that unless he ups the fetish/kink factor he cannot have sex at all. 

There are problems with her husband, that is the issue...


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

nice777guy said:


> Crazy idea here - but instead of turning this thread into an argument about the differences / similarities between "****" and "hot wife" - let see if we get any more info from OP about what HER husband has in mind. If she comes back.


I agree - and meanwhile, I suggest that the OP and her husband sits down at the kitchen table, and calmly discuss their sex life in a non-sexual situation. This works much better than doing it in bed while the hormones are clouding everything. Make sure that he understands that you don't want to be a hotwife because it doesn't turn you on to have sex with other men, just thinking about it is disgusting to you and that you are never going to change your mind about it. 

And while you're at it, try to find some common ground with the toys, lingerie and other stuff - that will give him something to put instead of hotwifing, and make it a lot more interesting for you.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Not only this, which is really good...
> 
> But it is not only the HW/**** fetish that she has issues with, it is his issues with the fact that he is not respecting her boundaries about several of his fetishes.
> 
> ...


For any kind of lifestyle play (swapping, hot wife, polyamory, etc.) to be navigated successfully, 1. Both parties need to be 100% on board and 2. The couples sex life together, outside of the lifestyle needs to be very good. It doesn't sound like either of these boxes are being checked. 
@Ketiara This obviously is making you more and more angry and the resentment will lead to a total loss of attraction for your husband. He needs a wakeup call and I would suggest a few things. When you really don't want to engage in the toys, oral play or lingerie and he will not let it go after being repeatedly told not this time, simply end the festivities. Get up and go get a drink. There needs to be a balance between his fetishes and your desire for intimacy and your own pleasure. 

On the Hot Wife stuff he obviously has no idea the ramifications of pressuring you into it. It will not end well. You need to continue to be consistently firm on your zero interest in the idea. If he cannot let it go after a while you will need outside help with this.

I have what may seem like an odd suggestion in addition to counseling and a sex therapist, which IMO are the best places to start. 

Now this is what I would consider a last resort. My wife and I have some experience in the lifestyle, mainly related to her bisexuality but have explored many aspects of it. One thing we discovered is people who have been in it for some time are usually great people and very open and willing to help out newbies. The wake up call your husband is needing might be more effective coming from people actually involved in the lifestyle. When we first got into it we weren't really sure were to draw the line so we would meet other couples for drinks and talk to get to know them. We learned a lot about the pitfalls and were advised to proceed with caution but many of these people. You could possibly seek out an experienced couple who can help you explain to your husband how this will likely destroy your marriage. Most if not all couples experienced in the lifestyle have met couples like you were one partner has pressured into it. They will be able to explain how in this scenario things will not go at all how your husband imagined. His fantasy is to see you in ecstasy with another man, this will not be the case no matter how bad he wants it. If you don't want it you will feel disgusting and probably violated. He might need to hear this from people that have been there and done that. I say this is a last resort because the thrill of meeting with another couple and talking about these things might make things worse by opening up his imagination to other ideas. But the hope would be another couple can explain to him that if his wife is not 100% on board and into it nothing involving other people will be good for either of you.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Remember that post way back on page 1 that mentioned sexual incompatibility? Everything after that is just so much Sturm und drang. As much fun as y'all are having hammering this guy for his fetishes, it's all irrelevant. Counseling - be it individual, couples, or sex specific isn't going to bridge the gap between these two. Nothing will. Not when you're that far apart. 

Round peg, square hole. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Remember that post way back on page 1 that mentioned sexual incompatibility? Everything after that is just so much Sturm und drang. As much fun as y'all are having hammering this guy for his fetishes, it's all irrelevant. Counseling - be it individual, couples, or sex specific isn't going to bridge the gap between these two. Nothing will. Not when you're that far apart.
> 
> Round peg, square hole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I would never bash someone for fetishes. Fetishies are personal. heck, I have a few of my own.

I WILL bash people for selfishness and insensitivity, which any objective reader can deduce he has in spades.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I would never bash someone for fetishes. Fetishies are personal. heck, I have a few of my own.
> 
> I WILL bash people for selfishness and insensitivity, which any objective reader can deduce he has in spades.


Thank you, thank you very much for saving me the trouble of writing this. 

The issue here, in this thread, in not which fetishes are good or bad. It is OP's Husband's insensitivity to OP.

You can have whatever fetish that you want, no judgment, but when you are insensitive to your spouse, you cross a line. 

When you cross a line, you get judged. I judge OP's H to be a jerk...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> I would never bash someone for fetishes. Fetishies are personal. heck, I have a few of my own.
> 
> I WILL bash people for selfishness and insensitivity, which any objective reader can deduce he has in spades.


Well, that's the problem with mismatched sexual styles. One person is always going to look selfish.

My three sigma sexually conservative wife was labeled by this forum as being outrageously selfish by many because of her inability to compromise more in the bedroom. For this man to not be selfish requires him to give up a huge part of his sexuality - a part that with the right partner would be considered edgy, exciting, and welcome. 

The problem isn't him. The problem isn't her. The problem is them, together, as a system. Compromise is what you do around the edges of your differences. It cannot white wash utter and complete incompatibility.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Round peg, square hole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Something tells me OP's Husband would like that.:surprise:


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Well, that's the problem with mismatched sexual styles. One person is always going to look selfish.
> 
> My three sigma sexually conservative wife was labeled by this forum as being outrageously selfish by many because of her inability to compromise more in the bedroom. For this man to not be selfish requires him to give up a huge part of his sexuality - a part that with the right partner would be considered edgy, exciting, and welcome.
> 
> The problem isn't him. The problem isn't her. The problem is them, together, as a system. Compromise is what you do around the edges of your differences. It cannot white wash utter and complete incompatibility.


Very well said Cletus. I really wanted to say bull**** on some of this but I do think you are right.

That said I still think there are some areas where people cant just say "thats just the way I am"


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Middle of Everything said:


> Something tells me OP's Husband would like that.:surprise:


You missed the reference in that same post about all of us hammering OPs husband. 

:grin2:


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Yup, all this so called "fetish" stuff with hubby is a symptom and not the cause. He needs counselling. Especially since he has kids and a long term marriage going on there. The fact that he only looks to satisfy his own needs and coerce you into going along with it is troubling indeed. That is definitely not healthy for any relationship...Period.


While OP is resenting him for dragging her into all these "schemes", she is actually being belittled by his behavior and degraded to boot. At some point, all this "stuff" ends up NOT being loving sex between two partners, but a psychological condition like addiction or abuse......


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

nice777guy said:


> You missed the reference in that same post about all of us hammering OPs husband.
> 
> :grin2:


Subtle is always best. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> Very well said Cletus. I really wanted to say bull**** on some of this but I do think you are right.
> 
> That said I still think there are some areas where people cant just say "thats just the way I am"


Oh, I agree. Dan Savage's GGG advice always comes with a "within reason" clause. Anything that causes harm to your spouse ought to be very thoroughly discouraged. Scat play is generally out and should not be forced into a relationship without mutual interest. There are plenty of others.

It sounds like this guy probably needs to get professional help. But I don't mean counseling.


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

Sooooo many great replies here, I can't thank you all enough for your insight. Sometimes just hearing all the viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them all, helps sort things out in my own head? It was my intention to go through and quote all the points I wanted to address, but there are so many that it may be easiest to just summarize my thoughts some more.

I totally understand several of you assuming he is a selfish person. I've presented one side, the sexual conundrum, and in that context he may perhaps be a little selfish. In other aspects of our relationship he really is not, but since we're talking about sex I'll stick to just that subject.

He does reciprocate. He would likely do about anything I wanted him to in bed to satisfy me. I am multi-orgasmic (can I say that here? I'm new to the forum and don't want to cross any lines), and it pleases him highly to "challenge" me to climax multiple times. It absolutely thrills him if I can go on and on, maybe 20-30 times or more. He'd let it go on all night if I didn't finally tap out. He almost always wants me to be satisfied first. So in some respects he really puts my needs first.

That's the frustrating thing. If he was just a selfish bastard, I'd be done. If he was abusive, lazy, a cheater, etc., I'd be done. It's the fact that I know he really does love me, and it's not his intention to hurt me, that makes this difficult. He just has no boundaries, and little self-control. If he thinks of (or sees online) a sexual fantasy that sounds fun, he can't put it out of his mind. It eats at him till he tries it, and if he likes it he then fantasizes about how to one-up it, and it grows exponentially until it's almost an obsession. And once it's part of the repertoire, it becomes a necessity. In a lot of cases I don't mind trying something initially - heck, I might like it too, right? But if I don't like it, I want to either never do it again or only do it on occasion for him. But if he does like it, neither of those is a real option. Hence the stalemate.

Several of you addressed the cuckold/hotwife fantasy and some of you hit the nail on the head. He does fantasize about me finding ultimate pleasure with another man. Part of the fantasy is being humiliated, being "forced" to watch. Eating the cream pie, preferably being forced to do so. Having to sit there in panties and being humiliated as a sissy while watching a "real man" take care of his wife is part of the fantasy as well.

Problem is, all of these things are repulsive to me. I like my manly man, and I wouldn't have married a sissy. Seeing him dress and act like one is a complete turn-off, I simply can't get into my role in this. As much as he sees it as a necessity now and then, I see it as completely impossible for me to do. Which is why we have the current compromise in which he does it alone, and I agree not to ***** about it. Some have given me advice over the years to just do it from time to time anyway. They've said that marriage is give-and-take, and means sometimes doing things we don't want to do for the other's happiness. I used to do that, but I realized the resentment I felt afterward was going to ruin our marriage. The image of him in the role-play was burned in my mind and made me view him differently the other 99% of the time. To him it was just sex and when it was over it was over, and I think he truly has never understood how I could be resentful for days afterward.

A large part of the **** fantasy does revolve around me enjoying it. Remember all this stemmed from me telling stories of men in my past. We got into detail, him asking about the biggest, best, etc. I talked about one partner in particular who was well-endowed and very good in bed. All of this excited him, and even though I told him that guy is married and a jerk and even IF I were up to any hotwife play, I would not want him to be a part of our lives, he still talks about him. Wants me to say his name. He even found the guy on FB and sent him a friend request, I think hoping that I'd come around and if presented with the opportunity for good sex, would take it. He found some bulls and exchanged messages and pics with them, hoping to pique my interest. I've said repeatedly that I will not cross that line, but in the interest of honesty it's not the sex with another man that turns me off, it's my own morality. Sense of right and wrong. I just couldn't live with myself if I did it. I know this about myself - and my morality is part of what makes me who I am. It's what makes me a good wife. It's okay to have personal boundaries, and violating them can have lots of ripple effects. But he seems to think the morality part is silly, and if I would physically enjoy it that's all that matters. Which is why he keeps trying to chip away at my resolve. I've sent the message that "my body might enjoy it but my mind would not", and he hears that as a 50% chance I'd do it.

It's just tiring to have so many areas of our sex life where I have to stand some kind of ground. Sex should be relaxing and enjoyable for both of us. I can enjoy getting off, but when it's his turn I'm afraid of what he's going to ask for. I can't ever just relax and enjoy the whole experience.

I don't expect y'all will have all the answers, but it is very enlightening to read your viewpoints. Feel free to keep it coming.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Remember all this stemmed from me telling stories of men in my past. We got into detail, him asking about the biggest, best, etc. I talked about one partner in particular who was well-endowed and very good in bed. All of this excited him, and even though I told him that guy is married and a jerk and even IF I were up to any hotwife play, I would not want him to be a part of our lives, *he still talks about him. Wants me to say his name. He even found the guy on FB and sent him a friend request, I think hoping that I'd come around and if presented with the opportunity for good sex, would take it*. He found some bulls and exchanged messages and pics with them, hoping to pique my interest. I've said repeatedly that I will not cross that line, but in the interest of honesty it's not the sex with another man that turns me off, it's my own morality. Sense of right and wrong. I just couldn't live with myself if I did it. I know this about myself - and my morality is part of what makes me who I am. It's what makes me a good wife. It's okay to have personal boundaries, and violating them can have lots of ripple effects. But he seems to think the morality part is silly, and if I would physically enjoy it that's all that matters. Which is why he keeps trying to chip away at my resolve. I've sent the message that "my body might enjoy it but my mind would not", and he hears that as a 50% chance I'd do it.


This is beyond disturbing. I'm going to sit back and see if anyone can twist into enough of a pretzel to defend it.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP
Its very good that he at least wants to please you in bed. Does that go beyond simply physically giving you O's, to setting the mood / atmosphere that you like? Physical actions are not the most important part of sex. 

I think you are fine absolutely not agreeing to bringing in a 3rd person. No problem with that as a hard limit.

I understand how seeing him as a sissy feels like it damages your relationship. Do you think that is something you can get past if it becomes an acted out game? (No is OK, but think about it). Could you provide some sort of mental trigger (clothes, wig, mask whatever) that would let you separate the sissy him, from the real him?

Could you play to the cucold fantasy by recording yourself with him in a mask / wig or something, than making him watch this "other man". 

You don't *have* to do any of this, I'm just trying to think of ways it might be possible for things to work out. 


Don't underestimate the power of masks, but seeing someone in one, and wearing one. For some people it really does generate a sort of body-disconnect where you feel like a different person. (which is why some people find it fun in bed)


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ketiara said:


> Sooooo many great replies here, I can't thank you all enough for your insight. Sometimes just hearing all the viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them all, helps sort things out in my own head? It was my intention to go through and quote all the points I wanted to address, but there are so many that it may be easiest to just summarize my thoughts some more.
> 
> I totally understand several of you assuming he is a selfish person. I've presented one side, the sexual conundrum, and in that context he may perhaps be a little selfish. In other aspects of our relationship he really is not, but since we're talking about sex I'll stick to just that subject.
> 
> ...


Does he have any other obsessive tendencies out side of sexual? I ask because the way you describe this it's sound fairly mentally unhealthy on his part. I get grabbing onto a sexual fantasy and being highly intrigued by it for a period of time but not being able to let go until realizing the fantasy in this instance sounds extreme.


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

uhtred said:


> OP
> ...Does that go beyond simply physically giving you O's, to setting the mood / atmosphere that you like?...
> 
> ...Could you provide some sort of mental trigger (clothes, wig, mask whatever) that would let you separate the sissy him, from the real him?
> ...


Yes, he does enjoy setting the mood. Although what he _thinks_ I like isn't necessarily what I like, but I applaud the effort.

I'm going to give the mask thing some thought. I'm open to the idea. Good suggestion.



happyhusband0005 said:


> Does he have any other obsessive tendencies out side of sexual?...


Sort of. I think he has some ADD, maybe. Never sought treatment or been diagnosed, but he's often hyper-focused on one thing at the exclusion of others. Great at starting projects and throws his entire self into it, but if his interest wanes before the project is finished, it's likely to stay unfinished for... ever. And he is obsessive in some areas (like cleanliness of a car) but not at all in others (like cleanliness in the garage). All of those are just personality quirks that don't really bother me, I'm sure I have plenty of my own, but it may paint a broader picture of why he may act the way he does.


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> This is beyond disturbing. I'm going to sit back and see if anyone can twist into enough of a pretzel to defend it.


Oh believe me, I was upset on that one. There's way more to the story (isn't there always?) but basically I didn't believe he'd actually tried to make contact. He never tried to hide it, I just didn't believe him. He's a big joker and for weeks I honestly thought he was leading me on to get a rise out of me. By the time I realized he'd actually done it, we'd had enough conversations that I think I'd gotten my point across that I genuinely don't want anything to do with this man. So I think he did feel kinda bad about it, his apology was sincere and he said he'd done it one night after having a lot to drink and "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

Which, really, is a good excuse for most anything in life.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ketiara said:


> Yes, he does enjoy setting the mood. Although what he _thinks_ I like isn't necessarily what I like, but I applaud the effort.
> 
> I'm going to give the mask thing some thought. I'm open to the idea. Good suggestion.
> 
> ...


Huh Ok I was thinking more of some form of OCD. It almost sounds like he goes into a frenzy if he doesn't fulfill the fantasy, in the way a person with OCD can't function if they don't perform certain compulsions. I would think a good sex therapist would would be able to get to the bottom of this. He has to be made to realize how destructive his pushing this is going to be. We have met couples with husbands pushing this type of thing were the wife had no interest. I can't think of any who are not divorced.


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Huh Ok I was thinking more of some form of OCD. It almost sounds like he goes into a frenzy if he doesn't fulfill the fantasy, in the way a person with OCD can't function if they don't perform certain compulsions. I would think a good sex therapist would would be able to get to the bottom of this. He has to be made to realize how destructive his pushing this is going to be. We have met couples with husbands pushing this type of thing were the wife had no interest. I can't think of any who are not divorced.


You're probably right. Which is why I'm not a therapist! I was thinking ADD because of the occasional hyper-focus but complete lack of focus elsewhere. Maybe some of both?

We've been to marriage counseling before, and sex was discussed. It was helpful, but the sex wasn't the focus at the time. It may be good to find a sex therapist and just meet with them occasionally.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Have you told him straight that you find the sissy stuff and humiliation repulsive?

For me, I will indulge certain things, but humiliation and sissy are my hard lines.

Like you, I like my men masculine, and seeing them in a sissy position, even just "role play" taints my perception of someone - I need to be able to respect my partner, and I find that stuff really distasteful. I don't respect "sissies" male or female.

And along the lines of respect, I just can't bring myself to humiliate - if I love and respect someone, I just can't bring myself to do it, it feels very very wrong.

I agree marriages are about compromise, but they are also about being loving and understanding.

If one partner wants an extreme sex act that the other finds repulsive or morally corrupt - is that really a compromise? Is that really respecting your spouse? 

I know if my husband did any of what you have described as your husbands latest fantasy - that i could never look at him the same way again.


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> Have you told him straight that you find the sissy stuff and humiliation repulsive?
> 
> For me, I will indulge certain things, but humiliation and sissy are my hard lines.
> 
> ...


You and I think very much alike! I can't separate the role-play from the real. Sex with someone is as real as it gets to me. Same for the humiliation - it's just not in my nature to do that to someone period, much less someone I love and respect.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Ketiara said:


> You and I think very much alike! I can't separate the role-play from the real. Sex with someone is as real as it gets to me. Same for the humiliation - it's just not in my nature to do that to someone period, much less someone I love and respect.


And that is why your post got me a bit fired up. I feel like I completely understand where you are coming from, and how this stuff can rock you to your core.

It's not just fun, it's not just pleasure (especially when you find no enjoyment in it), but very real, with very real consequences.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ketiara said:


> I've sent the message that "my body might enjoy it but my mind would not", and he hears that as a 50% chance I'd do it.


How can your body enjoy it, if your mind doesn't? So if you didn't have those 'boundaries', is it something you would find enjoyable? (Having other men have sex with you in front of husband). Not judging, just curious.

I sometimes joke about the hotwife thing with wife but I think it's only funny as long as I can tell that she is not going to enjoy it with either her mind OR her body. She actually would find it physically as well as mentally repulsive to **** another man that she was not in a relationship with. It's not a question of boundaries or morals for her. She would find it disgusting.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Clearly his imagination is fueled by pornography. He seems to have lost all touch with reality. Perhaps this is the cause.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

I didn't see the cuckold/sissy thing in your original post, but otherwise I think I get the picture, and I certainly can understand why you have problems with it. These things tend to grow into an obsession for some men, and that your husband already have an obsessive nature will only make it worse.

I can also understand why he doesn't take no for an answer. He knows you are multi-orgasmic, he also knows that you most likely would enjoy the sex with other men physically, and finally he knows that it's "just" moral issues that keeps you from wanting to do it. Or at least that's what he believes, and because he has read many stories about women that, once they overcome the moral problems, loves doing it, he believes you will love it too. His obsession makes him overlook the fact that some people just can't have sex with other people for fun, and that you probably are one of them.

The problem is to find out what to do about it. Have you ever taken a whole night off, and sat down together and talked about your sex life? I mean in a nice quiet and non-sexual situation over a glass of wine, talked about your fantasies, likes, dislikes, boundaries and wishes. I know from experience that this can make wonders, and it can improve the communication between you in a way you didn't think was possible. You don't seem like someone who's afraid to say what you mean, and you are certainly don't seem to be totally vanilla, so I think there is a good chance you can find something you both like to play with.

You can't change his sexuality, but you can find ways to make it work for you instead of against you. I'm sure there is a way to find a middle ground in this - you love each other and have otherwise a good relationship, so keep on trying :smile2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Husband humiliation seems just very off putting to many women. If I try it, as a joke, she has disgust written all over her face.
She needs to know that i really need to **** her, wants me to tell her how and where. And it’s funny that she pretends she is not interested or that I’m doing it almost against her will. Because if I wait deliberately, she’s almost like a child who is impatient and nervous.

It seems most women prefer it if man is in control. Flipping this around may be dangerous; wife will see husband in a certain light that she can’t ‘unsee’ again. I don’t think i would ever want to go down that rabbit hole.

Maybe your husband has too much free time or is not focused enough on something else? It seems he has a lot of time to I seas about these things. Does he have a hobby or buddies or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ketiara (Jun 5, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> I can also understand why he doesn't take no for an answer. He knows you are multi-orgasmic, he also knows that you most likely would enjoy the sex with other men physically, and finally he knows that it's "just" moral issues that keeps you from wanting to do it. Or at least that's what he believes, and because he has read many stories about women that, once they overcome the moral problems, loves doing it, he believes you will love it too. His obsession makes him overlook the fact that some people just can't have sex with other people for fun, and that you probably are one of them.
> 
> The problem is to find out what to do about it. Have you ever taken a whole night off, and sat down together and talked about your sex life? I mean in a nice quiet and non-sexual situation over a glass of wine, talked about your fantasies, likes, dislikes, boundaries and wishes. I know from experience that this can make wonders, and it can improve the communication between you in a way you didn't think was possible. You don't seem like someone who's afraid to say what you mean, and you are certainly don't seem to be totally vanilla, so I think there is a good chance you can find something you both like to play with...


You are very insightful! I think we both know that kind of long talk would do wonders for us, but it's very difficult to do. Neither of us being perfect, it is quite impossible to word everything you want to say in exactly the right way so as to eliminate any possibility the other can be offended. As hard as I try, I'm just going to say something that makes him defensive, and he's the type to have a knee-jerk reaction, and once he's reacted harshly it's downhill from there. So these conversations just never seem to end well. But it's always worth another try!



inmyprime said:


> It seems most women prefer it if man is in control. Flipping this around may be dangerous; wife will see husband in a certain light that she can’t ‘unsee’ again. I don’t think i would ever want to go down that rabbit hole.
> 
> Maybe your husband has too much free time or is not focused enough on something else? It seems he has a lot of time to I seas about these things. Does he have a hobby or buddies or something?


Exactly! I do prefer a man to be in control. If I try to reverse that for role-play, I can't 'unsee' him in the submissive role. And that's a real turn-off. 

He does have some hobbies and spends a fair amount of time on them. Albeit one of them is kinky sex...


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

I know all about the difficulties in that kind of conversations, neither I nor my wife are perfect, so we have experienced the same with our talks. I am very direct in my way of expression, and my wife would often become defensive and have knee-jerk reactions. We found out that we could avoid the problems mainly by me changing the way I said things to her. The thing that made it work was to rephrase "You don't bla bla...", "You never bla bla...", "You always bla bla", into either questions or expression of my opinion, like "I think you don't bla bla...", or "I have the feeling that you never bla bla...", or "Isn't it right that you always bla bla...". I hope you understand what I mean, English is not my native language, and it can be a bit difficult to explain these things in a foreign language. For us, this has made a huge difference, not only in our sex-talks, but in general. Of course I still make mistakes now and then, but we almost never end up in the big nasty discussions any more. 

Another important thing is, that you both agree to that the conversation must be kept positive, that it must be an enjoyable evening. Set up the rule, that if any of you get defensive or in any way feels attacked, take an immediate 10 minutes break. You could also make it more game-like by using a red, yellow and green card, green means "I'm okay", yellow means "This subject is dangerous, be careful", red means "Stop immediately".

The trick will be to turn it in to something you both like to do, and I suggest you start by telling him about what you like - if you have a kinky, but usable hidden fantasy, it would be a good start to reveal it. This will give you something new to talk about and it will make him curious in what else goes on inside your head. When you get to the things you don't like, keep it calm, and importantly; remember the rephrasing - the more you can phrase as questions, the better you can control the conversation. It takes a bit of practice and thinking, but I can guarantee you that it works.

It will be a very good idea for you to think it all through, so you have an idea of how you would like to make his kinks work for both of you beforehand. There is nothing wrong with saying that you you simply can't participate in the sissy and humiliation thing because it turns you off, if only you say it in the right way, and it's also not wrong to insist that he keeps this fetish to himself, so you don't loose your respect for him.

I have the impression that you are not against playing with the hotwife fantasies in bed. There is nothing wrong with keeping it as a fantasy, and if you like it, and admit it to yourself, you can control the way you play with it. Try suggesting to play it as a Stag/Vixen thing instead, which is the opposite of cuckolding. A stag husband is strong, preferably an alpha male, and there are absolutely no elements of humiliation. He lets his vixen enjoy other males, and reclaims her when she gets home. You can play with these things at fantasy level indefinitely, but be warned - there is a risk that you may end up doing it at some point; sexual fantasies tend to be loosening up people's morality and change their point of view.


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## Totalpackage (Mar 30, 2020)

I think you will find a female led marriage or relationship rewarding. Some women were made to be in control of their husbands and they thrive on it. I have been married for 15 years and It's been a femdom/female led over the last 13 years. My wife is just a normally aggressive and dominant woman who can't live any other way. It just took us 2 years to figure it out but once we did, it's been blissful ever since then. I know my place and she embraces her superior role over me.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Zombie thread


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Inactive thread. Closed


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