# Wife has crush on best friend



## rnd_usr

She likes to write out her thoughts and feelings. Most of her writing happens on her laptop. I break into computers for a living.

Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.

To describe my best friend in one word, he is a womanizer. Charming women with his looks and carisma is just second nature to him. Her attraction to him have been going on for more than 8 months at least and she is deeply suffering.

I am not mad, nor jealous. I understand that sometimes we have no control over these things, and I also completely trust her. Our relationship is very solid and she describes me in her journals as "the prefect husband" and her attraction to my friend as a "curse".

My initial thought was to let this pass with time. However, I am worried that this has taken much longer than to consider it a phase that will just pass by.

I am now considering either avoiding her seeing my friend for a while or the exact opposite. I think if she spends more time with him, she'll see through the carisma into his personality flows, which are pretty much a worse version of everything she hates about me 

What do you guys think?

UPDATE: today I mentioned I'm thinking of cutting off my friend. This came up jokingly and naturally while we were goofing about related stuff.

The expression on her face was relieve.

---------------------------------------------
Conclusion:

Thanks for everyone who participated in this. You guys have opened my eyes to many things. I am also reading the Married Man Sex Life book.

I had an open discussion with her today which finally led to her discussing developing a crush on a coworker in the past (I also knew about this from the journals). This is as close as I could get today. Her take on the matter was this is something that just happens and fades away, and I should only judge her on actions, which have been my stand from the very beginning. She has no control over it and have nothing to do with me or our relationship in her opinion.

I am going to cut off my friend for a while. I will reconnect with him after the crush fades away. After that, I will never let him near my wife or even mention him to her. While I don't believe he intended to lead her on, his actions did. This brought unnecessarily emotional suffering to my wife.

On a final note, for a support forum, a lot of commenters were too aggressive and judgemental. What's worse were those who jumped to give their advice without reading the full post. For the next person seeking advice here, good luck separating the rational thinkers from the angry mob.


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## The Middleman

Permanently end your relationship with your best friend and make sure you NEVER tell him why you ended the friendship. If he is a womanizer and finds out your wife is crushing on him, he will go after your wife. Then you need to make sure your wife never sees him again. I'm sorry but if you don't take swift action, an affair will happen.


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## Revamped

I think....

How p!ssed she will be when she knows you've read her private thoughts and manipulating her.

The road to hell...


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## happy as a clam

Does she know that you know about her crush? Or have you been secretly reading her journals?


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## vms

Your wife being an introvert does not give you a green light to invade her privacy.


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## WorkingOnMe

Whatever you do, don't tell your friend about this crush your wife has. Guys like that, he will betray you and go after your wife in a heartbeat. Ruining a long term friendship for an hour in your bed with her will not even cross his mind.


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## D.H Mosquito

I would not tell him and pretty pointless to let her see through him as she wont she will only see what she wants or what some posters here call the "fog" leading up to and during an affair, and they will betray you for at least one shot of each other with no qualms. it is impossible to fight against her perception of him when she is in this frame of mind just cut him off or at least out of the loop with her as he will already picked up on her being into him, does she know how to contact him?


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## the guy

Hanging out with this guy more won't work...your old lady will just want more.

He will never show his true colors in front of another female. In fact he will alway try to be the alpha male in the group no matter if there are females around or not.


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## the guy

Maybe I'm wrong...maybe he is the shy passive ,beta that just goes along with what ever you want to do.....
I doubt it but the fact remain your old lady has the hots for some other dude and you phucking think bringing your chick around more will help!


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## Thor

We've seen spectacular fails on this forum by letting the wife have more access to her crush/affair partner. Don't do it.


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## krismimo

Ok so let me get this straight.....

You break into your wifes laptop because according to you that is normal.. the biggest question is not about your best friend but what on earth did she do to deserve that? You glossed over that, if you feel that you have to break into her laptop in order to find out how she is feeling you are already doomed. I'm not saying you are wrong but the way you are going about things is headed in the wrong direction. The thing is she wrote something down to herself in order to sort it out and you broke that with no regards to her feelings what so ever. 

So I have to ask this what has she done for you to do that or have you always felt justified in doing this? I have to say I have done the FBI, and CIA breaking into people's stuff before and the only reason why I did it was because I did not trust my ex and I thought he was cheating. It changed me into a person that I did not like at all. In order to help you out if you could give us more insight than I for one would be happy to help with more infor on the dynamics of your relationship.


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## droll

You have a big trust to your wife and if your best friend is a real friend for you he wouldn't do anything to your wife.


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## Kresaera

My husband reads my journals but only because I let him... who on earth would you think it is okay to go behind her back and break into her laptop and read her personal thoughts?! If I found out my husband was doing that to me without serious suspicion of an affair I would be livid. I would feel violated and I would lose all trust I had for him. 

As for her having a crush on your friend? I'd stop all contact and step up my game. And stay the hell outta her laptop.


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## jld

krismimo said:


> Ok so let me get this straight.....
> 
> You break into your wifes laptop because according to you that is normal.. the biggest question is not about your best friend but what on earth did she do to deserve that? You glossed over that,*if you feel that you have to break into her laptop in order to find out how she is feeling you are already doomed.* I'm not saying you are wrong but the way you are going about things is headed in the wrong direction. The thing is she wrote something down to herself in order to sort it out and you broke that with no regards to her feelings what so ever.
> 
> So I have to ask this what has she done for you to do that or have you always felt justified in doing this? I have to say I have done the FBI, and CIA breaking into people's stuff before and the only reason why* I did it was because I did not trust my ex and I thought he was cheating. It changed me into a person that I did not like at all. *In order to help you out if you could give us more insight than I for one would be happy to help with more infor on the dynamics of your relationship.


Food for thought . . .


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## chaos

rnd_usr said:


> She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone.


Including you, her husband? Then why are you married to a woman who does not trust you with her feelings? Why is she married to a man who does not trust her and has to break into her personal journals to find out what is she thinking and feeling?


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## AVR1962

I am female, first husband was a charmer so I understand your wife's attraction. Why have you not said anything to your wife how this man womanizing girls, uses them, discards them and moves on....or have you? I think that would be my approach. Sure he is your friend but he doesn't treat women well in the long run of things. He is sweet as long as it is to get what he wants from them and then he moves on to the next victim.


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## AliceA

For me, a fundamental part of my relationship is trust. If your wife knows and allows you to read her journals, then I don't see anything wrong with it. If she doesn't know that you are doing this, which I gather is the case, you are breaking her trust. You are lying to her. Whether you feel like you are doing it for her benefit or not, it's still a lie. I have read DH's facebook messages once when I felt he may have said something inappropriate to someone. When I looked I felt that what I was doing was invading his privacy, even though he didn't make any attempts to hide anything from me, I still knew it was wrong. I told DH what I did and why I did it and then we dealt with how I felt about the content.

I understand your desire to find out what's going on, but I don't agree with lying, and by hiding what you are doing I feel you are lying by omission. It's wrong. Confess to what you read, face the consequences, then deal with the content in an open and honest conversation with her.


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## Vorlon

The OP and his wife are married. This whole idea about privacy between married couples to me is ridiculous and leads down an inevitable path of destruction. 

A married couple should be integrated and interdependent (Not codependent). When they aren't cracks and voids begin to divide and lay the ground work to destroy the marriage. I know some people believe otherwise and that is their choice.

Also we all have to get over ourselves. There is no such thing as privacy if you engage in any form of electronic media. If you think other wise you are simply naive to the world you live in. Anything from a computer, cell phone, TV to your address, drives license and SSN # is actively monitored and tracked by someone. 

IMHO if your keeping something from your spouse then you are being dishonest and cheating the person your supposed to love and trust above all others. You are then simply running on borrowed time until it becomes an issue of some sort between you. It may be small and inconsequential but they have a tendency to add up over time. Rationalizations and justifications hide a million sins.


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## Bruticus

rnd_usr said:


> She likes to write out her thoughts and feelings. Most of her writing happens on her laptop. I break into computers for a living.
> 
> Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.
> 
> To describe my best friend in one word, he is a womanizer. Charming women with his looks and carisma is just second nature to him. Her attraction to him have been going on for more than 8 months at least and she is deeply suffering.
> 
> I am not mad, nor jealous. I understand that sometimes we have no control over these things, and I also completely trust her. Our relationship is very solid and she describes me in her journals as "the prefect husband" and her attraction to my friend as a "curse".
> 
> My initial thought was to let this pass with time. However, I am worried that this has taken much longer than to consider it a phase that will just pass by.
> 
> I am now considering either avoiding her seeing my friend for a while or the exact opposite. I think if she spends more time with him, she'll see through the carisma into his personality flows, which are pretty much a worse version of everything she hates about me
> 
> What do you guys think?


damn, tough situation man. sorry you're in it. honestly, I don't know what I would do or what you should do. just had to say something about this messed up situation.


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## rnd_usr

Mr Useless said:


> I would not tell him and pretty pointless to let her see through him as she wont she will only see what she wants or what some posters here call the "fog" leading up to and during an affair, and they will betray you for at least one shot of each other with no qualms. it is impossible to fight against her perception of him when she is in this frame of mind just cut him off or at least out of the loop with her as he will already picked up on her being into him, does she know how to contact him?


Facebook. But they are not talking to each other.


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## rnd_usr

The Middleman said:


> Permanently end your relationship with your best friend and make sure you NEVER tell him why you ended the friendship. If he is a womanizer and finds out your wife is crushing on him, he will go after your wife. Then you need to make sure your wife never sees him again. I'm sorry but if you don't take swift action, an affair will happen.


Thanks! That's what I would do. I just needed to hear it from someone else. It is just hard to end 20 years of friendship.


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## rnd_usr

chaos said:


> Including you, her husband? Then why are you married to a woman who does not trust you with her feelings? Why is she married to a man who does not trust her and has to break into her personal journals to find out what is she thinking and feeling?


Including her own mother. Childhood issues I guess.


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## happy as a clam

rnd_usr... Would really appreciate an answer to this question:

Does your wife have any idea that YOU know about the crush?


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## rnd_usr

AVR1962 said:


> I am female, first husband was a charmer so I understand your wife's attraction. Why have you not said anything to your wife how this man womanizing girls, uses them, discards them and moves on....or have you? I think that would be my approach. Sure he is your friend but he doesn't treat women well in the long run of things. He is sweet as long as it is to get what he wants from them and then he moves on to the next victim.


She knows that, and describes herself as "one of his victims".


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## rnd_usr

happy as a clam said:


> rnd_usr... Would really appreciate an answer to this question:
> 
> Does your wife have any idea that YOU know about the crush?


No. But, I did hint that *all* women tend to fall for him.


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## hubbydude

Ignoring the snooping of the wife's journal......

1. She can't help who she's attracted to. All she can control is what she does about it. If you're comfortable that she's not (yet) cheated on you then great, you have a keeper 

2. She's attracted to him for a reason. Think about what it might be and how YOU can meet that need instead of him.

From what you've written, I'm guessing there's perhaps some excitement missing from your marriage? Are you mostly beta (providing for her, taking care of her, great husband material) while he's mostly alpha (physically and socially dominant, assertive, independent)? Try working on your alpha qualities (in addition to your beta, not instead of it), and you'll find her attraction to this other guy will dwindle.

I recommend reading the Married Man's Sex Life Primer, 2011, by Athol Kay. It explains everything you need to do to draw her attention away from the other guy and towards you.


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## Theseus

The Middleman said:


> Permanently end your relationship with your best friend and make sure you NEVER tell him why you ended the friendship. If he is a womanizer and finds out your wife is crushing on him, he will go after your wife. Then you need to make sure your wife never sees him again. I'm sorry but if you don't take swift action, an affair will happen.



What??? This is the worst possible advice. Nowhere did the OP say this friend was deliberately flirting with wife or pursuing her. It's not his fault if she is attracted to him. So you want the OP to end a friendship with this best friend, a guy who hasn't done anything wrong (nothing wrong with being a "womanizer", as long as it's with single women). And to put icing on the cake, don't even tell him why?? It's also a hell of an assumption that this guy is such a sleazebag that he would try to steal the wife away. True, he might actually be that kind of person in real life, but then again, he might be a lot of things. That information was not given to us, or you. 




rnd_usr said:


> [in response] Thanks! That's what I would do. I just needed to hear it from someone else. It is just hard to end 20 years of friendship.


Then don't! Trashing a friendship when he hasn't done anything wrong is not only unfair to him, but to you. 20 year friendships aren't something you can just pick up again, like a daily newspaper.

Instead, I would recommend just seeing him on your own without your wife, and concentrate on building up communication channels with your wife - something you both desperately need.


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## Bruticus

I wouldn't put too much stock in the replies that are lambasting you for snooping. it can lead down an ugly road and it can change who you are, but of course it can also lead to you finding things out that you would otherwise never know, exposing the truth. just make sure your concerns are important enough to justify the intrusion. some people are content with simply not knowing things too, just depends who you are.


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## 6301

The only thing I can tell you is for now bite your lip and just keep an eye on things. If you stop being friends with this guy then you have to give him a reason. Maybe he is a womanizer but if he hasn't put the move on your wife there is no cause. He's not the problem, your wife is the problem.

If it was me, I keep an eye on her and if you notice any changes with her where you feel she's starting to act on her thoughts then you let her know that you know what she wrote down. 

If she gets pissed and starts in on you for invading her privacy, then you ask her how she would feel if she found out that your jonesing for another woman and she found out about it. I promise you she would be up in your face in a heart beat. Don't let this play out any further then you have to because by then she might be over her head and the time to fix it is past.


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## manfromlamancha

How long have you and your wife been together/married (compared to the 20 yrs friendship with Don Juan)?

Has he ever been "successful" with any of your previous (ex) girlfriends in the past ?

Just how good of a friend is he (in your eyes) ?


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## Methuselah

rnd_usr said:


> Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.


Sounds like your relationship is dysfunctional at best. Your wife should never be a position where she is not able to communicate with you openly and completely. Lack of communication is the single largest reason why marriages break down.




rnd_usr said:


> I am not mad, nor jealous. I understand that sometimes we have no control over these things, and I also completely trust her. Our relationship is very solid and she describes me in her journals as "the prefect husband" and her attraction to my friend as a "curse".


It is perfectly reasonable to find members of the opposite sex attractive. This is human nature. Just because my wife is married to me does not instantly mean she loses sight of the fact there are other attractive men out there. I know she finds other men attractive. I also know she has made a choice to be with me. Likewise, I find other women attractive (some admittedly more attractive in terms of physical beauty than my wife) but what makes my wife "attractive" to me is not just her physical beauty but her mind and soul as well. She knows I'm a man and I find other women physically attractive. She'll even comment to me periodically when a woman passes us "she's hot honey, don't you think?"

Or, do you mean by "attraction" you mean your wife expresses in her journal that she desires to be physically involved with your best friend?




rnd_usr said:


> What do you guys think?


does your wife know you read her journals? If so, discuss it with her. There is nothing wrong with her finding other men physically attractive, and she should be aware of that. The problem rises when something is lacking in the marriage and that physical attractiveness found in other men leads to a desire to fill whatever is lacking. As long as your marriage is secure and nothing is lacking, then she has no reason to look elsewhere.


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## frankman

I dealt with one like him. My wife is now screwing him.

Led to my life being an epic fail. At least I can say never I invited him in.


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## Thound

Get rid of ALL toxic friends now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rnd_usr

hubbydude said:


> Ignoring the snooping of the wife's journal......
> 
> 1. She can't help who she's attracted to. All she can control is what she does about it. If you're comfortable that she's not (yet) cheated on you then great, you have a keeper
> 
> 2. She's attracted to him for a reason. Think about what it might be and how YOU can meet that need instead of him.
> 
> From what you've written, I'm guessing there's perhaps some excitement missing from your marriage? Are you mostly beta (providing for her, taking care of her, great husband material) while he's mostly alpha (physically and socially dominant, assertive, independent)? Try working on your alpha qualities (in addition to your beta, not instead of it), and you'll find her attraction to this other guy will dwindle.
> 
> I recommend reading the Married Man's Sex Life Primer, 2011, by Athol Kay. It explains everything you need to do to draw her attention away from the other guy and towards you.


You're correct. I am mainly beta, he's alpha. I will check that book out. Thanks for the advice.


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## rnd_usr

Theseus said:


> What??? This is the worst possible advice. Nowhere did the OP say this friend was deliberately flirting with wife or pursuing her. It's not his fault if she is attracted to him. So you want the OP to end a friendship with this best friend, a guy who hasn't done anything wrong (nothing wrong with being a "womanizer", as long as it's with single women). And to put icing on the cake, don't even tell him why?? It's also a hell of an assumption that this guy is such a sleazebag that he would try to steal the wife away. True, he might actually be that kind of person in real life, but then again, he might be a lot of things. That information was not given to us, or you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't! Trashing a friendship when he hasn't done anything wrong is not only unfair to him, but to you. 20 year friendships aren't something you can just pick up again, like a daily newspaper.
> 
> Instead, I would recommend just seeing him on your own without your wife, and concentrate on building up communication channels with your wife - something you both desperately need.


He is flirting with her, but definitely not pursing her. He flirts with every woman including relatives and coworkers his mother/grandmother age. It is just his nature. I don't think he means leading her on.

I'd rather be safe than sorry. I will cut him off for a while and maybe reconnect when he gets married.


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## rnd_usr

manfromlamancha said:


> How long have you and your wife been together/married (compared to the 20 yrs friendship with Don Juan)?
> 
> Has he ever been "successful" with any of your previous (ex) girlfriends in the past ?
> 
> Just how good of a friend is he (in your eyes) ?


We're been married for 6 years. We have a child together. My marriage is definitely more important here. 

I don't have any ex-girlfriends.

He is my best friend.


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## hubbydude

rnd_usr said:


> You're correct. I am mainly beta, he's alpha. I will check that book out. Thanks for the advice.


I'm also naturally strong in beta and week in alpha, and now that I'm more aware of what alpha and beta traits are and how they're perceived by (most) women, I cringe at some of the things I used to do, thinking that girls would find it attractive.


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## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> What do you guys think?


I think you need a better woman.

Ya ya, I know. Everyone can have an attraction. Your wife's goes beyond this. She is actually writing a mini novel about the other guy. Big difference.

I know you say you trust her, but I'm just going to say it.....you'd be a fool to trust her. Sounds like she has more than just a crush on him to write out her thoughts. IMO, you get those 2 in a hotel room 1000 miles away from you, and her legs would part like the Red Sea, and it won't take Moses to command it.


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## Plan 9 from OS

So does your wife know that you are aware of the crush? What kind of guy is he to your wife. Him being your best friend, I'm guessing you have an idea on whether his flirting is on the harmless side of if he's upped his game to make a conquest. Is he acting more flirtatious around your wife? If you were married 6 years and your BF was around from the beginning, what changed over the past 8 months? 

I hate to ask this, but here goes. Is your wife the type that your BF would go after? Does he have a type of woman that he goes after or do his conquest have a range of ratings and attributes? Is your wife in his league? Sorry if this is offensive, but you need study this to the best of your abilities, because even if you try to avoid him, he may NOT TRY to avoid you (and your wife).


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## rnd_usr

Methuselah said:


> Sounds like your relationship is dysfunctional at best. Your wife should never be a position where she is not able to communicate with you openly and completely. Lack of communication is the single largest reason why marriages break down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is perfectly reasonable to find members of the opposite sex attractive. This is human nature. Just because my wife is married to me does not instantly mean she loses sight of the fact there are other attractive men out there. I know she finds other men attractive. I also know she has made a choice to be with me. Likewise, I find other women attractive (some admittedly more attractive in terms of physical beauty than my wife) but what makes my wife "attractive" to me is not just her physical beauty but her mind and soul as well. She knows I'm a man and I find other women physically attractive. She'll even comment to me periodically when a woman passes us "she's hot honey, don't you think?"
> 
> Or, do you mean by "attraction" you mean your wife expresses in her journal that she desires to be physically involved with your best friend?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does your wife know you read her journals? If so, discuss it with her. There is nothing wrong with her finding other men physically attractive, and she should be aware of that. The problem rises when something is lacking in the marriage and that physical attractiveness found in other men leads to a desire to fill whatever is lacking. As long as your marriage is secure and nothing is lacking, then she has no reason to look elsewhere.


From her journal, he is in all her fantasies.

She has no idea I read her journal.


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## Revamped

Did you ever think your wife just enjoys WRITING?

She writes an intimate story to herself, and you invade her privacy and you think this is all about YOU and what YOU can do to stop a wayward wife.

If she really wanted to cheat on you, she's had chances. Writing about it is just that. Writing. In a journal.


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## rnd_usr

UPDATE: today I mentioned I'm thinking of cutting off my friend. This came up jokingly and naturally while we were goofing about related stuff.

The expression on her face was relieve.

Should I take this as: thanks goodness he will no longer be around and this will help me forget about him. Or could it be explained as: now that he's no longer friends with my husband, I have better chances in being with him.


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## rnd_usr

Revamped said:


> Did you ever think your wife just enjoys WRITING?
> 
> She writes an intimate story to herself, and you invade her privacy and you think this is all about YOU and what YOU can do to stop a wayward wife.
> 
> If she really wanted to cheat on you, she's had chances. Writing about it is just that. Writing. In a journal.


Maybe you're right. However, all entries start with a very focused todo list. A list of goals that are either work or life related. Then it becomes about things she wants to change. After that, some time management techniques as she's obsessed with that. Then she starts losing focus. Sometimes she writes about her childhood past, or reflect on recent events. Eventually, she will end up writing about him.

The part where I think you might be right is that this is all just writings to take stress off or think more clearly. It could be completely meaningless when read by someone else.


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## rnd_usr

vellocet said:


> I think you need a better woman.
> 
> Ya ya, I know. Everyone can have an attraction. Your wife's goes beyond this. She is actually writing a mini novel about the other guy. Big difference.
> 
> I know you say you trust her, but I'm just going to say it.....you'd be a fool to trust her. Sounds like she has more than just a crush on him to write out her thoughts. IMO, you get those 2 in a hotel room 1000 miles away from you, and her legs would part like the Red Sea, and it won't take Moses to command it.


You're missing the point. This is about protecting her and her feelings. She is deeply suffering right now.


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## LostViking

rnd_usr said:


> You're missing the point. This is about protecting her and her feelings. She is deeply suffering right now.


What? How is she suffering? Do you beat her? Neglect her?

I dont understand your mentality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rnd_usr

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So does your wife know that you are aware of the crush? What kind of guy is he to your wife. Him being your best friend, I'm guessing you have an idea on whether his flirting is on the harmless side of if he's upped his game to make a conquest. Is he acting more flirtatious around your wife? If you were married 6 years and your BF was around from the beginning, what changed over the past 8 months?



No. I don't think she's aware. They are not talking to each other. I am pretty sure his flirting is on the harmless side. 8 months ago, he kissed her hand while saying good bye. Her mind have been blown ever since.



> I hate to ask this, but here goes. Is your wife the type that your BF would go after? Does he have a type of woman that he goes after or do his conquest have a range of ratings and attributes? Is your wife in his league? Sorry if this is offensive, but you need study this to the best of your abilities, because even if you try to avoid him, he may NOT TRY to avoid you (and your wife).


Let me answer this honestly, if my BF sleeps with her, based on physical attractiveness only, she might have the lowest score in the long list of women he have been with.

I don't think he is after her, but he have definitely led her. Intentionally or not.


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## rnd_usr

LostViking said:


> What? How is she suffering? Do you beat her? Neglect her?
> 
> I dont understand your mentality.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is suffering from her uncontrollable feelings toward my best friend. She wants to get rid of these feelings, and it is making her hate herself.


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## LostViking

rnd_usr said:


> She is suffering from her uncontrollable feelings toward my best friend. She wants to get rid of these feelings, and it is making her hate herself.


And you gleaned this from her journal?

Well, it sounds bad to me. It sounds like she has lost attraction to you. 

Athol Kay time I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

Revamped said:


> Did you ever think your wife just enjoys WRITING?
> 
> She writes an intimate story to herself, and you invade her privacy and you think this is all about YOU and what YOU can do to stop a wayward wife.
> 
> If she really wanted to cheat on you, she's had chances. Writing about it is just that. Writing. In a journal.


This is utterly ridiculous

The woman writes constatnly about her (first person) attraction to his friend in a way that would be a cry for help if public (her crush is "a curse").

She writes that the friend is "In all of her fantasies".

I don't think she'll be submitting this one to any publishers anytime soon.


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## tacoma

rnd_usr said:


> She is suffering from her uncontrollable feelings toward my best friend. She wants to get rid of these feelings, and it is making her hate herself.


OP,

You need this badly.
Please read.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## Revamped

tacoma said:


> This is utterly ridiculous
> 
> The woman writes constatnly about her (first person) attraction to his friend in a way that would be a cry for help if public (her crush is "a curse").
> 
> She writes that the friend is "In all of her fantasies".
> 
> I don't think she'll be submitting this one to any publishers anytime soon.


What is rdiculous is having an unwelcome and unwarranted invasion of privacy.

She didn't DO anything wrong. She didn't SAY anything wrong.

But she is being convicted of cheating by proxy.

It's just wrong. Plain and simple.


----------



## tacoma

Revamped said:


> What is rdiculous is having an unwelcome and unwarranted invasion of privacy.
> 
> She didn't DO anything wrong. She didn't SAY anything wrong.
> 
> But she is being convicted of cheating by proxy.
> 
> It's just wrong. Plain and simple.


Seriously?

I don't think the OP has accused her of cheating at all and I don't recall anyone in this thread doing so either.

In fact I think the OP is taking this not nearly as seriously as he should.

Your privacy complaint falls on deaf ears here.
In my relationship "privacy" is what you get when you're taking a dump and that's the entire extent of it.


----------



## Revamped

he wants to drop his BEST FREIND over a journal page. 

NOTHING happened. She wrote a story. That's IT. But it's taking a life of it's own because OP snooped.

Why aren't you indignant of THAT?


----------



## tacoma

Revamped said:


> he wants to drop his BEST FREIND over a journal page.
> 
> NOTHING happened. She wrote a story. That's IT. But it's taking a life of it's own because OP snooped.
> 
> Why aren't you indignant of THAT?


I'm not indignant of that because in my definition of marriage the concept of "snooping" cannot exist.

She did not write a "story" she wrote about her personal feelings that she either cannot or will not share with her husband.
The fact that she writes so extensively about her attraction and it's effect on her is a serious red flag for the OP.

However I don't think he should drop his best friend since niether his friend or his wife have done anything wrong.

I think he should confront his wife in some manner as she seems quite immature in how she handles this attraction.

Pining away for pages and pages in a diary over a man she can't have is something a teenager does, not a mature woman in a committed relationshp.

OP has problems but they aren't his best friends fault.


----------



## Revamped

GMAFB...

It was a PERSONAL journal. Not meant to be seen by ANYBODY. 

He saw it and now wants to ACT. Over something BENIGN in nature.

Did she CAUSE a flirtation? No.

Did she ACT on a flirtation? NO.

Mountains. Molehills. Picking battles. Stress over nothing.


----------



## Thundarr

rnd_usr said:


> She likes to write out her thoughts and feelings. Most of her writing happens on her laptop. I break into computers for a living.
> 
> Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.
> 
> To describe my best friend in one word, he is a womanizer. Charming women with his looks and carisma is just second nature to him. Her attraction to him have been going on for more than 8 months at least and she is deeply suffering.
> 
> I am not mad, nor jealous. I understand that sometimes we have no control over these things, and I also completely trust her. Our relationship is very solid and she describes me in her journals as "the prefect husband" and her attraction to my friend as a "curse".
> 
> My initial thought was to let this pass with time. However, I am worried that this has taken much longer than to consider it a phase that will just pass by.
> 
> I am now considering either avoiding her seeing my friend for a while or the exact opposite. I think if she spends more time with him, she'll see through the carisma into his personality flows, which are pretty much a worse version of everything she hates about me
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> UPDATE: today I mentioned I'm thinking of cutting off my friend. This came up jokingly and naturally while we were goofing about related stuff.
> 
> The expression on her face was relieve.


This convert communication is strange to me and I don't know how it can possibly work long term. At least I suspect she knew you'd snoop based on past behavior. Good luck I guess.


----------



## Wazza

OP, don't take this the wrong way, but I am feeling like in some ways you are a bit of a Sheldon Cooper. or Mr Spock, and don't totally get people. It may be worth considering. 

First, as a white hat hacker, you are clearly a computer geek. Lots of ASD tendencies among people in that profession.

Second, your logical defence of why it is a good thing to break in and read your wife's journals, with no evidence that you appreciate the emotional impact and potential risks of what you are doing, and how your wife might feel if she found out.

Thirdly, there are no ex girlfriends. 

And now you are going down the "I'm beta, he's alpha, need to do something" path. 

So, how well do you get girls? And what is the risk of you doing something dumb here just because you don't know enough.

See, the thing is....if your wife has a pulse she has a sex drive. She is going to find other men attractive, just as you sometimes find other women attractive. Whether she (or you) cheat then becomes a matter of personal character. 

By all means read up on ways you can balance alpha and beta qualities, and things you can do better. Just don't get carried away. Don't be that idiot who tries to be an alpha chick magnet when its just not you, and comes across as a sleeze or a wanna-be. She married you. She must see something in you. 

And for goodness sake....if snooping in her journals is just fine tell her you are doing it and watch her smile. Or cut it out. I'm not going to make a moral argument either way...I'm simply going to tell you that if she finds out it could do a lot of damage.


----------



## tacoma

Revamped said:


> GMAFB...
> 
> It was a PERSONAL journal. Not meant to be seen by ANYBODY.


Damn, maybe she shouldn't have written it all down nice and neat to be found by the person who shares her space with her.

Truthfully (and I know Ill take some heat for this ) if you have a secret you want no one to ever know about putting it to paper/pixels isn't really too bright.



> He saw it and now wants to ACT. Over something BENIGN in nature.


He should act and quickly because his wife lusting for his best friend is not at all benign.



> Did she CAUSE a flirtation? No.
> 
> Did she ACT on a flirtation? NO.
> 
> Mountains. Molehills. Picking battles. Stress over nothing.


If my wife was lusting for my best friend I'm pretty sure I wouldn't consider it "nothing" and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either.

Easier to deal with the molehill before it becomes a mountain and this is exactly the type of thing that becomes a mountain if nothing is done about it.

Just cruise CWI for awhile and you'll learn.


----------



## Wazza

tacoma said:


> I'm not indignant of that because in my definition of marriage the concept of "snooping" cannot exist.


Easy. Tell her you're reading the diaries OP. Of course, yat that point you might find that her definition of marriage is different from Tacoma's.


----------



## happy as a clam

Personally, I would be hurt if my SO had developed a crush on another woman to the point that he was not only fantasizing about her, but also writing extensive journal entries professing his strong feelings. Does that mean I necessarily think he would cheat on me?

No, but...

In order to develop a serious crush like that, it's a huge red flag (to me anyway) that something is definitely "off" or missing in the relationship. When you are in love with someone and satisfied, you don't go crushing on someone else to the extent she has. Nothing wrong with noticing a good looking person of the opposite sex, but that's really where it should end.

OP needs to know his wife's satisfaction level with their marriage. The only way to find out is to ask her and communicate about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped

tacoma said:


> Damn, maybe she shouldn't have written it all down nice and neat to be found by the person who shares her space with her...
> 
> Just cruise CWI for awhile and you'll learn.


It wasn't "shared" it was BROKEN IN TO.

Maybe YOU should hang around HERE to get a better view on what a GOOD relationship looks like.


----------



## michzz

I'm not buying it when you say you are not jealous of your wife.

If you are not jealous, then why the snooping in her journal?

And only to find out that she is hot for your friend?

Of course you are jealous!

Regardless of whether or not she has had any contact with this erstwhile friend, i would limit how much interaction the both of you have with this friend.

Ordinarily, I would call your snooping an invasion of privacy.

But you found a reason for your jealousy. So, what are you going to do about it?


----------



## Revamped

michzz said:


> But you found a reason for your jealousy. So, what are you going to do about it?


A VAR, steal her phone, confiscate her computer, a charity belt and a lie detector test.

A pregnancy test, an STD test, an HiV test and might as well have dental exam as well.

Throw in the works!

Because, hell! Better be safe than sorry!


----------



## Anon1111

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. 

This is not some romance novel. It's his wife and best friend.

Personally, I would print the journal out and leave it on the kitchen counter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped

Personally, I'd print out divorce papers and leave them out for him to sign. On the kitchen table. Where there will be no more dinners.


----------



## Wazza

Revamped said:


> A VAR, steal her phone, confiscate her computer, a charity belt and a lie detector test.
> 
> A pregnancy test, an STD test, an HiV test and might as well have dental exam as well.
> 
> Throw in the works!
> 
> Because, hell! Better be safe than sorry!


You forgot to DNA test the kids.



Anon1111 said:


> Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


No, and sh1t happens. But you can kill a marriage by paranoia as much as by infidelity.

Look, I spent most of my TAM time in CWI. Fascinating place to learn about what can happen, but there is a common thread amongst most of the people who have all these great strategies there and used them to sort out their marriages.

They are divorced.

Think about that.

Now, my wife's affair (a real affair with a real man, not diary entries of personal thoughts) was 24 years ago. And there are people on TAM, in CWI, who have told me our reconciliation is fake. They can find a dark cloud to blot out any silver lining there. Without knowing me, or my wife. Based solely on generalisations, that have their place but are far from a complete truth.

CWI will teach you a lot about what can go wrong with a marriage. It's useful information provided you keep in mind that it is the dark side of things. 

You can't be risk free in marriage. There are no guarantees in life.


----------



## Revamped

And still, 50% of marriages,

End up MARRIED.

Think about THAT.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP:
why exactly does he have so much access to your wife and her to him?? a best friend need not hang out so much with you and your wife, if he is YOUR long time best friend why don't you.

otherwise I would simply observe her flirting (does she flirt with him or only one way??) and ask her why she doesn't flirt with you more. or perhaps even hint that you are attracted to a coworker - give her the thought that she could lose you just as easily as you could lose her.


----------



## rnd_usr

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP:
> why exactly does he have so much access to your wife and her to him?? a best friend need not hang out so much with you and your wife, if he is YOUR long time best friend why don't you.


He doesn't. They don't talk to each other. We've only been out together with other friends a few times.



> otherwise I would simply observe her flirting (does she flirt with him or only one way??) and ask her why she doesn't flirt with you more. or perhaps even hint that you are attracted to a coworker - give her the thought that she could lose you just as easily as you could lose her.


She doesn't flirt back. I can't be attracted to a coworker because that will be an employee of mine.


----------



## Veridy

For myself, I'd be likely to approach it as.. So honey.. I know I said I wanted to cut "mitch" out of my life, X , X and X personality aspect about him are really bugging me... am I wrong? And this allows you to offer your insight, and ask if she's noticed it and are you right? Or.. 

Honey.. I wish I could see "Mitch" happy with a woman.. but I dont' think he'll ever find anyone becuase of X and X and X. It opens up an avenue to discuss the aspects of his personality that you may see more clearly than she has the opportunity too. 

Just a thought..


----------



## Revamped

No, leave poor Mitch out of it. He isn't the source of contention.

The source of contention is the fact OP is dreaming up scenerios of his wife with some other dude, namely his best FREIND. Which wouldn't have occurred unless he BROKE into her computer and saw evidence that she has a PERSONALITY that he doesn't know about.

Hence, OP should mind his own business until, in fact, there is something to ACTUALLY worry about.


----------



## Tobyboy

Easy way to kill this is tell your wife when she asks(and she will) why you are distancing from your best friend is......"something he said makes me think that he has pedophile tendencies and I don't want him anywhere near my family". Then say no more. Do not explain. Yeah, I know it's a discussing way to handle things, but it will be more disturbing if your wife continues to fantasize about him knowing your concerns(real or not).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rnd_usr

Tobyboy said:


> Easy way to kill this is tell your wife when she asks(and she will) why you are distancing from your best friend is......"something he said makes me think that he has pedophile tendencies and I don't want him anywhere near my family". Then say no more. Do not explain. Yeah, I know it's a discussing way to handle things, but it will be more disturbing if your wife continues to fantasize about him knowing your concerns(real or not).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That made me laugh out loud


----------



## Revamped

On that notion,

Why doesn't OP tell his wife he "likes" Mitch more than a friend should?

The end result would be the same.


----------



## rnd_usr

Revamped said:


> On that notion,
> 
> Why doesn't OP tell his wife he "likes" Mitch more than a friend should?
> 
> The end result would be the same.


that can also work specially that she did suspect we're more than just friends in the past


----------



## Tobyboy

rnd_usr said:


> that can also work specially that she did suspect we're more than just friends in the past


Your kidding...right?


----------



## rnd_usr

Tobyboy said:


> Your kidding...right?


she said that jokingly


----------



## Wazza

Tobyboy said:


> Easy way to kill this is tell your wife when she asks(and she will) why you are distancing from your best friend is......"something he said makes me think that he has pedophile tendencies and I don't want him anywhere near my family". Then say no more. Do not explain. Yeah, I know it's a discussing way to handle things, but it will be more disturbing if your wife continues to fantasize about him knowing your concerns(real or not).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let's run through that again.

Having hacked his wife's computer and read her private thoughts without permission, he knows about feelings that his wife has not acted upon. So the appropriate response here is to now make false accusations of pedophilia against his best friend who has not been feeding his wife's thoughts......

You can't be serious.


----------



## Anon1111

The bizarre thing is people defending this woman like she has a right to privacy regarding her obsession with this guy's BEST FRIEND.

this is not Brad Pitt. This is a real life guy that she knows, and who is very close to her husband. It is f-ing weird and totally inappropriate.

If this guys was beating off to pictures of his wife's sister every night, would you say, "Gee, he has a right to beat off to his siter in law- how dare his wife intrude upon that!"


----------



## CantePe

I partly defend her and partly defend him.

Both lack proper communication skills, they need to work on that.

While I'm an adamant defender of the only privacy in marriage is on the crapper I'm also an adamant defender of respect and communication.

It isn't marriage normal that she is obsessively crushing on his friend, it also isn't normal for that much lack of trust that he has for her.

That kind of lack of trust smacks of her possibly (which he insinuated to in his original post when saying that breeching her laptop before saved their marriage a few times) committing to particular actions that caused his lack of trust in her.

If that's the case (above) he hasn't breeched her trust but he still lacks communication skills (as does she), if she hasn't done anything to warrant his surveillance of her laptop then he breeched her trust and both still lack communication skills.


----------



## Revamped

But it ISN'T Brad Pitt. This guy has no idea that his best friend's wife is writing pornos about him.

He hasn't asked, acted nor wanted his bf's wife.

Conversely, OP's wife has not done anything inappropriate in her actions to deserve maltreatment. Other to write in her PRIVATE journal. Which was HACKED.

If OP hadn't snooped, he'd still be comfortable in his marriage and his friendship.

Mountains. Molehills.


----------



## that.girl

Just because she has a crush doesn't mean she can't be trusted. I crushed on a lot of guys while i was married - some celebrities, some in real life. I never acted on any, and never would have. 

Here's the important part - the more physically and emotionally disconnected my marriage became, the more likely i was to dream about a British pop star or the guy at the coffee shop. 

Stop reading her diary and make sure her needs are met. Having dirty thoughts is not the same as cheating. Lots of women do it, you just happened to marry one who likes to write those thoughts down.


----------



## Anon1111

I am honestly not understanding the view of the defenders here.

Do you think the husband should be cool with this?

I get that you're offended by his snooping.

But now that he knows, he can't forget. 

Honestly, you would not be bothered if you found out your spouse had this type of elaborate ongoing fantasy?


----------



## that.girl

Anon1111 said:


> Honestly, you would not be bothered if you found out your spouse had this type of elaborate ongoing fantasy?


I try not to police my partner's thoughts. I'm more concerned with his actions.


----------



## that.girl

Really, she's in a tough spot. What should she do? 

She can't just NOT be attracted to him, it doesn't work that way. She's not a good communicator, so the whole "Hey honey, i get all tingly when i think about your best friend" conversation isn't going to happen. 
So she doesn't act on the thoughts, but vents them through her personal journal. Not an ideal situation, but you do what you can with what you've got. 

Either OP can punish his wife and end a long friendship over this, or he can be a little understanding, while requesting that his wife not be alone with his womanizing friend. 
"Because, you know honey, i love and trust you, but things would get awkward if Mr. Womanizer got the wrong idea."


----------



## Cynthia

She is apparently fantasizing about the friend. She is feeding the monster.
When does your wife spend time with your friend? Does he come over to your home when she is there? 
If I thought my husband was crushing on one of my friends, I would not bring her over to the house and we would not do anything as a couple with her. That only makes matters worse.
If this is a good friend of yours, you should be able to spent time with him away from your wife, unless you all watch football together or something, then you would have to make changes.
I agree with others who say that you two need to work on the marriage. You cannot have your emotional needs met when you don't trust your spouse enough to engage deeply with them.


----------



## GusPolinski

This is a (very) crude analogy, but this is sort of like a cop walking in on the commission of a felony after kicking in a door w/o a warrant.

Was there an invasion of privacy? Yeah, there was. And, w/o getting into the whole "privacy in marriage should be limited to the bathroom" argument, OP has stumbled onto something that requires his attention.

And for each of the ladies crying foul here, imagine that you stumbled upon a journal -- whether handwritten or digital; whether out in the open or clearly not meant to be (easily) found -- in which your husband/boyfriend/SO expressed having similar thoughts about your best friend... who happened to be a voracious man-eater. How would you react?


----------



## jld

I would go right to him with it. But I don't go around looking for that stuff. I trust him completely.

And I am not sure what a man eater is. My husband is completely responsible for his own conduct, as I see it.


----------



## GusPolinski

rnd_usr said:


> No. I don't think she's aware. They are not talking to each other. I am pretty sure his flirting is on the harmless side. *8 months ago, he kissed her hand while saying good bye.* Her mind have been blown ever since.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer this honestly, if my BF sleeps with her, based on physical attractiveness only, she might have the lowest score in the long list of women he have been with.
> 
> I don't think he is after her, but he have definitely led her. Intentionally or not.


I hate to come off all "neanderthal" here, but does this seem a bit odd to anyone else?

Personally, I'd have pulled him aside -- in full view of my wife -- and politely suggested that he keep his damn hands (AND lips) to himself... else he might wind up with his f*cking teeth knocked down this damn throat.


----------



## jld

I think the OP's making a witty remark about it, and then upping his own romancing of his wife, would suffice.


----------



## GusPolinski

jld said:


> I would go right to him with it. But I don't go around looking for that stuff. I trust him completely.
> 
> And I am not sure what a man eater is. My husband is completely responsible for his own conduct, as I see it.


Not a Hall & Oates fan, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRYFKcMa_Ek


----------



## jld

GusPolinski said:


> Not a Hall & Oates fan, eh?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRYFKcMa_Ek


I guess not.

Dug would not go for that. Again, I trust him completely. And hold him completely responsible for his actions.


----------



## GusPolinski

jld said:


> I guess not.
> 
> Dug would not go for that. Again, I trust him completely. And hold him completely responsible for his actions.


Sooo... upon discovering that your husband has been pining for your best friend (to the point that he's in anguish over his feelings), you'd do nothing? You'd say nothing?

Forget about whether or not you simply happened upon the journal and its content or whether you were actively looking for it... regardless of how you obtained it, you now have the knowledge. What do you do w/ it?


----------



## Starstarfish

> Let me answer this honestly, if my BF sleeps with her, based on physical attractiveness only, she might have the lowest score in the long list of women he have been with.


That's harsh. Which, I'm hoping your "the snopping was for her own good" thing doesn't lead to her developing the same computer-hacking skills to read that post about what you really think about how attractive your wife is. I mean, maybe she fantasizes about the best friend because what you really think about her is more apparent than you might think. 

Maybe she wants to feel like a "conquest" and wanted by someone, and not just "ho hum the old ball and chain." 

It just seems like there's more problems here than just the fantasy with your friend. She doesn't communicate, and rather than attend counseling or actively address the way you two don't communicate, you read her journals. Which whether or not you consider it snooping or privacy invasion, that's far less than an ideal way to communicate with your wife. Particularly now that you have children. 

Also all of that once you are married, isn't having the Quagmire best friend awkward?


----------



## jld

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... upon discovering that your husband has been pining for your best friend (to the point that he's in anguish over his feelings), you'd do nothing? You'd say nothing?
> 
> Forget about whether or not you simply happened upon the journal and its content or whether you were actively looking for it... regardless of how you obtained it, you now have the knowledge. What do you do w/ it?


I already said I would go right to him with it.


----------



## Wazza

OK, let's remind ourselves what we have here, and what we don't have.



rnd_usr said:


> He is flirting with her, but definitely not pursing her. <snip> I don't think he means leading her on.





rnd_usr said:


> From her journal, he is in all her fantasies.





rnd_usr said:


> UPDATE: today I mentioned I'm thinking of cutting off my friend. <snip>
> The expression on her face was relieve.





rnd_usr said:


> She is suffering from her uncontrollable feelings toward my best friend. She wants to get rid of these feelings, and it is making her hate herself.





rnd_usr said:


> He doesn't. They don't talk to each other. <snip.She doesn't flirt back.


What, beyond desires which she is not acting on, is she guilty of?


----------



## Wazza

Anon1111 said:


> The bizarre thing is people defending this woman like she has a right to privacy regarding her obsession with this guy's BEST FRIEND.
> 
> this is not Brad Pitt. This is a real life guy that she knows, and who is very close to her husband. It is f-ing weird and totally inappropriate.
> 
> If this guys was beating off to pictures of his wife's sister every night, would you say, "Gee, he has a right to beat off to his siter in law- how dare his wife intrude upon that!"


She's feeling an attraction to someone she's met who is an attractive person. What's weird about that?

Serious question....who do you think about, besides your wife, when beating off? Who do you have sexy daydreams about? And does your wife know? Everyone on this thread who is for 100% openness should think about that. 

As for defending her....well that's not what I am doing. I am flagging a warning that many people do not find it endearing to be spied upon. She might decide that she does not want to be in a relationship with a guy who does that sort of stuff.


----------



## Thor

I am troubled by this spying. Randomly looking at her browsing history is not a violation of privacy but even that would make people uncomfortable if their spouse were doing that out of some sort of worry or paranoia. A personal journal whether paper or electronic is private. Unless there is some real evidence of foul play or illness.

RND, you've got to stop the spying and find a better way to communicate. You also need to stop being so paranoid and controlling. I think you'd ge ta lot out of the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

Having said all that, you are in possession of information which should be acted on in some way. I agree completely with those who say her feelings are not her fault, and are in fact normal. She can't control her feelings. And, she is controllnig her behavior by not seeking more of the rewards of his attention. She is enforcing good personal boundaries and protecting the marriage.

If I were you, I would use this data as a springboard to seriously improving your marriage. I would approach her about being more open in communications, and saying directly to her that you want to work on both of you feeling totally safe to discuss anything without feeling judged or dismissed. YOu don't even have to provide any specific new actions or rules, just put out there your sincere desire to move your relationship several steps up the ladder.

Suggesting maririage counseling might be a good idea. NOt that you are saying your marriage is broken, but that perhaps some guided work would be productive compared to you, rnd, trying to figure out everything. YOu could even say that you don't know how to do this but you don't want your marriage to go the way of so many which get off track. She is so important to you that you want to learn how to be the best husband and have the best marriage ever. Make this all about positive learning while things are good, rather than waiting until the wheels are falling off.


----------



## Thor

I think your friend is toxic to your marriage. I believe he at least secretly would want to get with your wife. A player who puts on the charm is always looking for female confirmation of his attractiveness. It is part of the player personality, and it is a weakness. He wants to get positive reactions from your wife. Which is harmful to your marriage as you know from what she has written.

It is guaranteed that he has noticed your wife's reactions to him and knows she is attracted. Players intentionally hone their reading skills. 

You don't have to give anyone any explanations, just stop spending tme with him. He hasn't done anything wrong, but his personality is a danger to your marriage even though he is a friend to you.

Stop saying anything about him to your wife! She will get suspicious and she'll further cut you out of the information loop.

A marriage counselor will do some solo sessions with each of you, and you can tell him/her about your snooping and what you know. The MC can then help guide you and her productively.


----------



## AliceA

GusPolinski said:


> This is a (very) crude analogy, but this is sort of like a cop walking in on the commission of a felony after kicking in a door w/o a warrant.
> 
> Was there an invasion of privacy? Yeah, there was. And, w/o getting into the whole "privacy in marriage should be limited to the bathroom" argument, OP has stumbled onto something that requires his attention.
> 
> And for each of the ladies crying foul here, imagine that you stumbled upon a journal -- whether handwritten or digital; whether out in the open or clearly not meant to be (easily) found -- in which your husband/boyfriend/SO expressed having similar thoughts about your best friend... who happened to be a voracious man-eater. How would you react?


There was no stumbling. It was deliberate and it's been done before and will be done again. It's called dishonesty, plain and simple.

If I "accidently" (yeah, I'll play along) read my husband's journal, and he expressed these thoughts, I'd tell him what I read, and I'd tackle the problem head on.

I see a lot of people who think like politicians. It's all short term goals. Good luck on living with the lies and subterfuge long term.

The reading of a person's journal is symptomatic of greater issues within the marriage. It's not a way to fix it. OP says he trusts his wife, but he doesn't. He spies on her because he doesn't trust her to share her thoughts with him. Is stealing them the best way to resolve this issue?


----------



## thenub

She shouldn't keep her journals secret and he shouldn't keep the fact he read them secret. 

Get it out into the open and communicate!!!


----------



## GusPolinski

breeze said:


> There was no stumbling. It was deliberate and it's been done before and will be done again. It's called dishonesty, plain and simple.
> 
> If I "accidently" (yeah, I'll play along) read my husband's journal, and he expressed these thoughts, I'd tell him what I read, and I'd tackle the problem head on.
> 
> I see a lot of people who think like politicians. It's all short term goals. Good luck on living with the lies and subterfuge long term.
> 
> The reading of a person's journal is symptomatic of greater issues within the marriage. It's not a way to fix it. OP says he trusts his wife, but he doesn't. He spies on her because he doesn't trust her to share her thoughts with him. Is stealing them the best way to resolve this issue?


Make no mistake -- I don't necessarily disagree w/ you. In fact, I find it especially concerning that OP (according to his own words) has done this repeatedly throughout the course of their marriage.

OP, what is it that typically precipitates the snooping? Is there any history of infidelity in your marriage (apologies if you've already addressed this question)?


----------



## Revamped

Maybe she wrote out all that on purpose.

We're going on the presumption that the wife doesn't know OP reads her personal journal. Maybe she does.

And she's telling him she's done with him...


----------



## rnd_usr

Wazza said:


> OK, let's remind ourselves what we have here, and what we don't have.
> 
> What, beyond desires which she is not acting on, is she guilty of?


I've never said she's guilty of anything.


----------



## that.girl

She's probably aware of his computer skills. Maybe she doesn't want to talk to him anymore, since he's getting her thoughts from elsewhere.


----------



## Wazza

rnd_usr said:


> I've never said she's guilty of anything.


Others on this thread have.


----------



## The Middleman

The wife is crushing on the husband's best friend and based on his posts, crushing enough to cause her serious anxiety and emotional distress. This is why I advised him to cut off the relationship with the BF. No explanations are necessary to the BF or the wife, it's the OP's prerogative who he wants to be friends with. 

I agree with others, there is no true expectation of privacy in marriage. I've been through that battle myself and I didn't bend on it. The OP should continue to monitor the 'situation' and make sure that there is no contact between his wife and the BF. The crush will fade. If he continues the friendship I strongly feel she will act on the crush at some point.


----------



## that.girl

There may be no expectation of privacy, but there is definitely an expectation of honesty. 

Time to fess up about reading the diary. It's dishonest to keep doing that and not telling her. If she has no right to privacy, she needs to know that.


----------



## The Middleman

And conversely, she should 'fess up' about crushing on the best friend.


----------



## Thundarr

that.girl said:


> There may be no expectation of privacy, but there is definitely an expectation of honesty.
> 
> Time to fess up about reading the diary. It's dishonest to keep doing that and not telling her. If she has no right to privacy, she needs to know that.





The Middleman said:


> And conversely, she should 'fess up' about crushing on the best friend.


Yea these both are on that blurry line part of transparency.


----------



## hawkeye

WorkingOnMe said:


> Whatever you do, don't tell your friend about this crush your wife has. Guys like that, he will betray you and go after your wife in a heartbeat. Ruining a long term friendship for an hour in your bed with her will not even cross his mind.


Holy balls, pump the breaks. The entire description of this guy is that he charms women. Big effing deal. It doesn't mean he's going to steal his best friend's wife the first chance he gets. 

This place is fueled by paranoia.


----------



## hawkeye

Tobyboy said:


> Easy way to kill this is tell your wife when she asks(and she will) why you are distancing from your best friend is......"something he said makes me think that he has pedophile tendencies and I don't want him anywhere near my family". Then say no more. Do not explain. Yeah, I know it's a discussing way to handle things, but it will be more disturbing if your wife continues to fantasize about him knowing your concerns(real or not).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really hope this wasn't supposed to be actual advice.



Anon1111 said:


> The bizarre thing is people defending this woman like she has a right to privacy regarding her obsession with this guy's BEST FRIEND.
> 
> this is not Brad Pitt. This is a real life guy that she knows, and who is very close to her husband. It is f-ing weird and totally inappropriate.
> 
> If this guys was beating off to pictures of his wife's sister every night, would you say, "Gee, he has a right to beat off to his siter in law- how dare his wife intrude upon that!"


Yes, let's all pretend we only think about our spouses and never, ever, ever even think about any one else. Ever. This woman's only crime was putting these thoughts on paper. Big deal. 



Anon1111 said:


> Honestly, you would not be bothered if you found out your spouse had this type of elaborate ongoing fantasy?


I'd be more surprised if she didn't.



GusPolinski said:


> I hate to come off all "neanderthal" here, but does this seem a bit odd to anyone else?
> 
> Personally, I'd have pulled him aside -- in full view of my wife -- and politely suggested that he keep his damn hands (AND lips) to himself... else he might wind up with his f*cking teeth knocked down this damn throat.


Seems like a rational response 



GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... upon discovering that your husband has been pining for your best friend (to the point that he's in anguish over his feelings), you'd do nothing? You'd say nothing?
> 
> Forget about whether or not you simply happened upon the journal and its content or whether you were actively looking for it... regardless of how you obtained it, you now have the knowledge. What do you do w/ it?


I probably would have found out about it because she just would have told me at some point. But me and my wife trust each other and always talk about other people we're attracted to or have things for. Neither of us live is some dream world where we think that just because we're married we only have eyes for each other. She could have a crush on all of my friends and I wouldn't care one bit. She's got the biggest crush on me.


----------



## happy as a clam

thenub said:


> *She shouldn't keep her journals secret *and he shouldn't keep the fact he read them secret.
> 
> Get it out into the open and communicate!!!


C'mon nub... I think ANYONE who keeps a diary or journal should have a REASONABLE expectation that others are not going to snoop through them and discover their private thoughts. Sometimes I write poetry that is a creative outlet and very personal to me; I might not write it if I thought others were going to invade my space.

I would never snoop through my SO's journal unless, perhaps, he was suicidal or mentally incapacitated and a threat to himself or someone else.


----------



## AliceA

I've written in a journal at some points in my life. I have an expectation that these thoughts would remain private to me. I had no wish to share them with anyone. It was me venting my thoughts onto a page. A way to purge them. DH has never gone snooping, trying to read them.

We are not owned by our spouses. Our thoughts have always been, and will always be, a choice to share or not share. Let's not pretend that any of us, even those who believe no one gets to have any privacy in marriage, never choose to keep our thoughts to ourselves. 

I have to think the OP's wife is being sucked in by his BF's flirting because he is probably providing something the OP isn't. He's making her feel special. The OP's intrusion into his wife's journal just shows a lack of respect. She would feel this lack, even if she doesn't realise what he's doing, in everyday communication. How many people come here with a 'feeling' that something isn't right and find out there's good reason for that feeling. His inability to be honest with her she would also feel. He's lacking certain basic courtesies in his dealings with his wife.


----------



## Thor

There are 2 separate issues here for OP. One is the snooping, the other is her crush. Regular snooping on one's spouse without good reason (real evidence of some kind of affair or other important issue) is not healthy for the relationship. It just isn't. Snooping is for emergency situations only.

The crush needs to be addressed somehow. I tend to think she is holding strong boundaries around her marriage. She recognizes the crush and she is working hard to defeat it. She does not want to act on it at all.

Who here has never had a crush or strong attraction to someone outside of your marriage? As long as we recognize it as fantasy which we don't want to take action on, we are keeping good boundaries. 

But I think the other guy is a potential threat to the marriage. He is a player, and players play. It is prudent to remove known threats from the area.


----------



## rnd_usr

Thanks for everyone who participated in this. You guys have opened my eyes to many things. I am also reading the Married Man Sex Life book.

I had an open discussion with her today which finally led to her discussing developing a crush on a coworker in the past (I also knew about this from the journals). This is as close as I could get today. Her take on the matter was this is something that just happens and fades away, and I should only judge her on actions, which have been my stand from the very beginning. She has no control over it and have nothing to do with me or our relationship in her opinion.

I am going to cut off my friend for a while. I will reconnect with him after the crush fades away. After that, I will never let him near my wife or even mention him to her. While I don't believe he intended to lead her on, his actions did. This brought unnecessarily emotional suffering to my wife.

On a final note, for a support forum, a lot of commenters were too aggressive and judgemental. What's worse were those who jumped to give their advice without reading the full post. For the next person seeking advice here, good luck separating the rational thinkers from the angry mob.


----------



## Revamped

I take it you didn't tell her about reading her personal journal then. And I suppose, in your eyes, you'll keep on doing it because it makes you look like a caring husband instead of an inconsiderate snoop...


----------



## Divinely Favored

Hawkeye and Thor I for one have not fantasized about other women besides my wife. My fantasies are for my wife only. To fantasize and foster lustful feelings about others than spouse are wrong. Christ said they have already committed adultry in their heart.


----------



## happy as a clam

rnd_usr said:


> For the next person seeking advice here, good luck separating the rational thinkers from the angry mob.


I read the entire thread, and I don't sense an "angry mob" at all. I think a lot of people had strong opinions about your snooping in your wife's journals. And you still haven't offered a good explanation as to why you feel the need to snoop.

It's easy to get defensive sometimes when he hear things we really don't want to hear.


----------



## Bruticus

Divinely Favored said:


> Hawkeye and Thor I for one have not fantasized about other women besides my wife. My fantasies are for my wife only. To fantasize and foster lustful feelings about others than spouse are wrong. Christ said they have already committed adultry in their heart.


Then you have a power almost no other men do. yet, i suspect that even you have fallen short of the glory of God.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

This thread is fascinating with the divisiveness.

I have a question for the OP, which I am surprised no one asked, what else did she do in the past?


----------



## AliceA

You did something many believe is immoral but didn't like being told so. It's really as simple as that. Friends and family might not say what they think about a persons actions, but strangers will tell it how they see it, and that's the risk you take with all forums.


----------



## hawkeye

Divinely Favored said:


> Hawkeye and Thor I for one have not fantasized about other women besides my wife. My fantasies are for my wife only. To fantasize and foster lustful feelings about others than spouse are wrong. Christ said they have already committed adultry in their heart.


LOL. I'm in awe at your moral superiority. God would be proud. Although i think lying is a sin too.


----------



## Divinely Favored

hawkeye said:


> Divinely Favored said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hawkeye and Thor I for one have not fantasized about other women besides my wife. My fantasies are for my wife only. To fantasize and foster lustful feelings about others than spouse are wrong. Christ said they have already committed adultry in their heart.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. I'm in awe at your moral superiority. God would be proud. Although i think lying is a sin too.
Click to expand...


Not superior just forgiven and favored....i do struggle with unricheous anger against others. I feel anger against cheaters and such when i was not the one they sinned against. Their spouse and God is who they have to make amends and seek forgiveness. The Bible said to take all thoughts captive....you see a beautiful woman you keep it at that thought "She is beautiful" you do not continue to look and start fantasizing and think " I'd like to get a piece of that" You stop your thought process before it gets that far...do not dwell on a thought....it's not difficult. You are to "Flee Temptation" That includes all temptation...whether physical or fantasy. I helps when you do not look at Pornography and have a wife who you love deeply and enthusiastically takes care of your wants and needs.


----------



## Starstarfish

Is the implication there being if a man can't control his fantasy thoughts and thus falls short of the expectation of God, it's his wife's fault somehow for not being enthusiastic to take care of all wants and needs?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Starstarfish said:


> Is the implication there being if a man can't control his fantasy thoughts and thus falls short of the expectation of God, it's his wife's fault somehow for not being enthusiastic to take care of all wants and needs?


That was not where I was going but since you want to go that way...I am not tempted to fantasize about other women as my needs are being met and back when they were not my fantasy were still about my wife, the Bible says 

*1Co 7:5

Do not deprive one another except with consent*for*a*time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So if you refuse affection and intimacy with your spouse, no matter if it's wife/husband, you invite Satan into your marriage. Which goes back to causing a brother to stumble which is a sin. So if you are refusing your spouse you are sinning against your spouse.


----------



## hawkeye

I'm about as worried about Satan entering my home as I am about Santa entering it.

But do what you gotta do to keep deluding yourself into thinking you never fantasize about anyone but your wife.


----------



## Divinely Favored

You should not try to say every body does it to justify your own behavior or views. Not all men are alike.... just like not all women are....thank God!


----------



## Roselyn

rnd_usr said:


> She likes to write out her thoughts and feelings. Most of her writing happens on her laptop. I break into computers for a living.


Your situation as your posts describes is like leaving a four year old with a cupcake on the table and telling him not to touch it. Your wife knows that sooner or later you'll break into her laptop journals.

However, addressing your situation with the infatuation that your wife has with your best friend, it is best that you drop your best friend. Get the temptations out of the way.

I no longer have women friends, but acquaintances. I go to lunch, joke around, and have conversations with my acquaintances. My female friends were all attractive. I was attractive as well in my youth. My husband still calls me "pretty girl" after ongoing 35 years of marriage. It only took one time when he commented on one of my female friends as attractive when I decided that acquaintances will be better for me. My girl friends were too much like me.


----------



## Divinely Favored

He said she never discusses anything. His snooping has saved their marriage on several occasions in the past. Since she will not tell him when a problem threatens their relationship .....So I understand his snooping...if there were serious problems he would not know why his marriage is falling apart until she asked for divorce or bedded another guy. But luckily my wife will let you know when there is a problem.

I was the one who would not voice hurts and issues.....until they become critical. I would not fault her for snooping my stuff.


----------



## soccermom2three

OP, maybe a less snooping and computer time and maybe more actions to keep your wife's attraction and needs met. Then she would have these crushes.


----------



## Wazza

Divinely Favored said:


> Since she will not tell him when a problem threatens their relationship ....


We only have one concrete example, and in that she clearly states that she sees no threat to the marriage. 



rnd_usr said:


> I had an open discussion with her today which finally led to her discussing developing a crush on a coworker in the past (I also knew about this from the journals). This is as close as I could get today. Her take on the matter was this is something that just happens and fades away, and I should only judge her on actions, which have been my stand from the very beginning. She has no control over it and have nothing to do with me or our relationship in her opinion.


It would be interesting to justify to her that her privacy was violated because of something she doesn't see as a threat. It's her marriage too. 

Does your spouse get any say in the shape of your marriage, or is it ok to ignore their views whenever you disagree? 

The journal does not necessarily represent objective truth. It represents things she needs to express at a point in time. To read it as a factual account is fraught with danger. 

Rnd_usr, if you are still following, have a look at this short video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

Like me, you might take the guy's side. The females I have shared this with take the girl's side. I am slowly understanding why.... :scratchhead:

Try watching it with your wife. Ask her what she thinks. If you treat everything she says as valid, and try and get a glimpse of her perspective, it might give you some insight into her thought processes, which in turn might help effective communications. 

You're a logical person, smart and articulate. If your wife is not the same way, you might think that your logical arguments are swaying her in various discussions, when in fact she's thinking, "He argues better than I do. That doesn't make him right just better at arguing. I will just hold my opinions to myself to avoid those arguments". 

For me, at any rate, listening more is the way to better communications. Logic wins the battle, but loses the war. Arguments are won by emotion as much as logic.


----------



## krismimo

OP can you please tell us more about your relationship? I mean there are pieces here and there but not enough to help. I don't like the automatic assumption that your friend is this sleeze bag I don't get that feeling in this case. You still didn't answer my question, what did she do in order for you to break into her computer? Do you trust your wife? Yes or no. If you do not please explain. Thank you.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Wazza said:


> We only have one concrete example, and in that she clearly states that she sees no threat to the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to justify to her that her privacy was violated because of something she doesn't see as a threat. It's her marriage too.
> 
> Does your spouse get any say in the shape of your marriage, or is it ok to ignore their views whenever you disagree?
> 
> The journal does not necessarily represent objective truth. It represents things she needs to express at a point in time. To read it as a factual account is fraught with danger.
> 
> Rnd_usr, if you are still following, have a look at this short video.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
> 
> Like me, you might take the guy's side. The females I have shared this with take the girl's side. I am slowly understanding why.... :scratchhead:
> 
> Try watching it with your wife. Ask her what she thinks. If you treat everything she says as valid, and try and get a glimpse of her perspective, it might give you some insight into her thought processes, which in turn might help effective communications.
> 
> You're a logical person, smart and articulate. If your wife is not the same way, you might think that your logical arguments are swaying her in various discussions, when in fact she's thinking, "He argues better than I do. That doesn't make him right just better at arguing. I will just hold my opinions to myself to avoid those arguments".
> 
> For me, at any rate, listening more is the way to better communications. Logic wins the battle, but loses the war. Arguments are won by emotion as much as logic.


I was going off original post.

Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Divinely Favored said:


> I was going off original post.
> 
> Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past. She has an extremely introvert personality and would never discuss her feelings or issues with anyone. I learn about her issues from her journals and I take actions to help. Specially when these issues are caused by me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We've moved on from there. Try to keep up!


----------



## the guy

I'm glad you guys talked and she admitted her crush/crush's and you are keeping your friend away for now.

So whats the plan with your wife?


----------



## Tobyboy

the guy said:


> I'm glad you guys talked and she admitted her crush/crush's and you are keeping your friend away for now.
> 
> So whats the plan with your wife?


She only admitted to a crush on a coworker, not the best friend! Why is that? Because this ain't no crush.......it's an eight month obsession that will escalate even more now that she won't have easy access to. OP, be prepare for your W to manufacture ways for her to get her obsession needs met some other way!!! I suspect FB will be her(first) drug of choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

Here is what I don't get. He is ditching his friendship with this guy because of HER fantasies. Did this friend somehow make a pass at her? He is throwing away a friendship because his wife has the hots for him? 
Was it written that this friend feels the same way towards her? If not, then not exactly fair to his friend.


----------



## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> On a final note, for a support forum, a lot of commenters were too aggressive and judgemental. What's worse were those who jumped to give their advice without reading the full post. For the next person seeking advice here, good luck separating the rational thinkers from the angry mob.


??? Uh, but you were the one that came in here saying your "invasion" of her privacy has saved your marriage several times, whatever that means.

When you come into a forum of people that have been betrayed, tell us that your actions have "saved" your marriage before, and tell us another story of her having designs on a friend of yours, what were you expecting?

So you invade her privacy, come here because OBVIOUSLY something is terribly wrong, you are ditching a friend who, from what I have read, or haven't read, has done NOTHING wrong....and the people here are the "angry mob"?

Ok, well good luck with that. Keep on "invading".


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

vellocet said:


> Here is what I don't get. He is ditching his friendship with this guy because of HER fantasies. Did this friend somehow make a pass at her? He is throwing away a friendship because his wife has the hots for him?
> Was it written that this friend feels the same way towards her? If not, then not exactly fair to his friend.


But this is conventional wisdom on here that toxic friends go. His BF may not be toxic with respect to the crush that his wife feels; however, being friends of a womanizer (possibly sleeping around with other married women???) is not exactly a good long term friendship to have. By his actions, the BF is not a friend of marriage in general.


----------



## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> You're missing the point. This is about protecting her and her feelings. She is deeply suffering right now.


Then stop spying on her.


----------



## vellocet

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But this is conventional wisdom on here that toxic friends go. His BF may not be toxic with respect to the crush that his wife feels; however, being friends of a womanizer (possibly sleeping around with other married women???) is not exactly a good long term friendship to have. By his actions, the BF is not a friend of marriage in general.


I didn't sense that by what he was saying. For some reason he has had reason to spy on her many a time. But the worst he said he has done was kiss her hand when leaving them once.

But if a wife/gf of mine ends up falling in bed with him, then she wasn't worth 2 squirts of piss to begin with and THEN he would no longer be my friend.


----------



## Thundarr

vellocet said:


> I didn't sense that by what he was saying. For some reason he has had reason to spy on her many a time. But the worst he said he has done was kiss her hand when leaving them once.
> 
> But if a wife/gf of mine ends up falling in bed with him, then she wasn't worth 2 squirts of piss to begin with and THEN he would no longer be my friend.


:iagree:
In my opinion, rnd_usr is setting a low bar regarding expectations from his wife. She is indeed in control and accountable for her own actions. The relationship is disfunctional IMO. Accountability and respect are being replaced with snooping and damage control.

To clarify a different thought, my wife is at work today and I fully expect her to not fall in love or have an affair with any co-workers. It's not too much to expect. My wife does not have a diary but if she did then I believe she would expect me to not read it. Now I'm all for transparency and I'm not against snooping if red flags are popping up but I don't think it should be a way of life.


----------



## vellocet

Thundarr said:


> :iagree:
> In my opinion, rnd_usr is setting a low bar regarding expectations from his wife. She is indeed in control and accountable for her own actions.


Yup, and it looks as if the friend is going to get the blame seeing as how he is the one getting the axe.

I'd like to hear the explanation to this friend. "I am ditching you as a friend because my wife thinks you are hot and fantasizes about you. This is your fault, therefore you are the one that has to go."


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

vellocet said:


> Yup, and it looks as if the friend is going to get the blame seeing as how he is the one getting the axe.
> 
> I'd like to hear the explanation to this friend. "I am ditching you as a friend because my wife thinks you are hot and fantasizes about you. This is your fault, therefore you are the one that has to go."


I agree that the true root cause of the OP's problems are due to his wife. But this was a part of the OP:



> To describe my best friend in one word, he is a womanizer. Charming women with his looks and carisma is just second nature to him. Her attraction to him have been going on for more than 8 months at least and she is deeply suffering.


When I see someone described as a womanizer, I assume that means someone who gets around a lot and does not care if the woman he is pursuing is attached to another guy or not.


----------



## vellocet

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree that the true root cause of the OP's problems are due to his wife. But this was a part of the OP:
> 
> 
> 
> When I see someone described as a womanizer, I assume that means someone who gets around a lot and does not care if the woman he is pursuing is attached to another guy or not.


One can be a womanizer but know that friends' wives are off limits.

And you are assuming this is what he means. Still, its his wife that is the problem, not the friend. Like I said, unless he made a pass at her or something.

Actually he is lucky he has this friend. Nothing inappropriate is going on apparently. But having a friend like him is bringing out his wife's true character. Now he knows how she is, but he is going to choose to ignore it(while still spying on her) and give friend the boot.


But really, its a moot point. He constantly "invaded her privacy", knows she wants to have sex with him, he didn't do anything, he gets the axe, and now we are all the bad guys for pointing this out.

So case closed, he found his solution. Thread can be ended.


----------



## Revamped

It would have been much more an interesting time if OP would have played "grammar police" on his wife's writing.


----------



## happy as a clam

Revamped said:


> It would have been much more an interesting time if OP would have played "grammar police" on his wife's writing.


:iagree:

He could "redline" his corrections in her document...


----------



## Thor

I've not known any womanizers who think any woman is off limits. This friend is a hazard to any marriage.

Which is a separate issue from his wife crushing on the guy. 
She has not acted on it, and does not want to. Yet there is something lacking in the marriage for her to have this much of a crush going on. OP needs to evaluate what that might be and work on improving his marriage. So far he has a faithful wife.

Which is still a separate issue from the snooping. This is a betrayal and will cause great harm to the marriage one way or the other. The snooping needs to stop.


----------



## vellocet

Thor said:


> I've not known any womanizers who think any woman is off limits. This friend is a hazard to any marriage.


He is a hazard only to a marriage where the wife is like OPs.




> Which is a separate issue from his wife crushing on the guy.
> She has not acted on it, and* does not want to*.


:bsflag: to the bolded part

I don't care if she says she doesn't. Her journal says otherwise.


----------



## Revamped

It's a sick game they play with each other. He thinks he's got the upper hand in the relationship because he reads her private thoughts.

She, in turn, makes the "thoughts" a juicy read, making him get rid of a friend.

I'd like to know what she'll write next, just to see him act all jealousy over it.


----------



## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> I am going to cut off my friend for a while. I will reconnect with him after the crush fades away. After that, I will never let him near my wife or even mention him to her.


No, just cut him out as a friend completely. He shouldn't get to be considered a friend at your convenience.

And what is this? Let him be a friend but not let him be near your wife? Sorry. He isn't the problem.




> While I don't believe he intended to lead her on, his actions did. This brought unnecessarily emotional suffering to my wife.


Oy vey :slap:

So not only do you not realize the problem is your wife and her desires for him, now this is all his fault and she is an innocent victim in all of this?

Ayi yi yi. What is it really that you two talked about for her to be able to shift the blame away from the real problem?


----------



## WandaJ

So, you are a GOD in this relationship, guiding your lost lamb, reading her most secret thoughts, all for her and your own good

Do you work for NSA, where the moral standards of privacy do not exist anymore?

I guess that makes me the "aggressive" poster.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

vellocet said:


> One can be a womanizer but know that friends' wives are off limits.
> 
> And you are assuming this is what he means. Still, its his wife that is the problem, not the friend. Like I said, unless he made a pass at her or something.
> 
> Actually he is lucky he has this friend. Nothing inappropriate is going on apparently. But having a friend like him is bringing out his wife's true character. Now he knows how she is, but he is going to choose to ignore it(while still spying on her) and give friend the boot.
> 
> 
> But really, its a moot point. He constantly "invaded her privacy", knows she wants to have sex with him, he didn't do anything, he gets the axe, and now we are all the bad guys for pointing this out.
> 
> So case closed, he found his solution. Thread can be ended.


This seems to be an about face against what typically is given as advice on TAM. The wife is the main issue here, by far. I don't think the OP has to cut his friend out, and it should be quite easy to keep the BF and his wife apart. I will say though that the fact that a womanize is the best friend of the OP says a lot about the OP. Living vicariously thru others and not doing much himself? Maybe.


----------



## vellocet

Revamped said:


> It's a sick game they play with each other. He thinks he's got the upper hand in the relationship because he reads her private thoughts.


Make no mistake about it. She has the upper hand here.


----------



## krismimo

Ye without sin cast the first stone.....


----------



## krismimo

vellocet said:


> He is a hazard only to a marriage where the wife is like OPs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :bsflag: to the bolded part
> 
> I don't care if she says she doesn't. Her journal says otherwise.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My sentiments exactly!!! I feel this way toward a lot of things people want to target the blame for, from 50 shades to face book, but not looking at the real source.... the individual who made a promise, a vow. People don't want to hear it but i keep saying that we all have a choice, it is free will what we decide, however if you make a poor choice and get caught you suffer the consequences.


----------



## NobodySpecial

OP put me solidly in the camp of getting straight with you wife on all topics, from your snooping to her inappropriate crushing. You both need to take responsibility for yourselves and your own actions.


----------



## warlock07

What if she stops putting things in her diary ? 

How many friends can you cut off ?

How many crushes ? Random crush is understandable. Repeated crushes on other guys is not good for anyone in this marriage(as evidenced by you looking at her diaries)

Did she put any other thoughts about this crush she was having ? Wouldn't she realize that you read her diary? If this is a good friend, aren't you cutting him off for not fault of his and no explanation ?


----------



## warlock07

> she is deeply suffering.


This not good. Attraction happens but crushes don't make you suffer. It speaks of deeper issues like her attraction to you and to some extent, your enablement of her behavior.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Thor said:


> I've not known any womanizers who think any woman is off limits. This friend is a hazard to any marriage.
> .


See, I've seen womanizer used in a similar manner, no way are they completely the same, as sl*t when it is a gy who "dates" a ton of women. Even if he only dates single women, a guy can be labelled a womanizer.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Are not crushes something we used to have in grade school and early high school. Then we learned to go steady and finally to commit to an exclusive, long term relationship. Your wife has failed to mature past grade school. She is supposedly in a long term relationship called marriage. The time for crushes and longing to bed other men should be long since past.

You have a significant issue here and should be very concerned about your wife's shallow feelings for you. As she becomes emboldened her words may jump off of the computer screen and into your life, are you ready for that? Be prepared.

Finally, in regards to the privacy issue, may I ask how much privacy is too much? If your wife hides little things from you how is the line drawn between little and big? Who sets the line, her, you or someone else? I find this notion of privacy between married couples to be problematic at best. If you are doing or writing something that your spouse cannot uncover without causing problems then you should not be doing it. Why is this hard to grasp by some people? If your wife needs her privacy to go and sleep with another is she entitled to that time? What if she just needs to write about sleeping with another is she entitled to that time? Who draws the line? If your wife needs to write about having sex with another why doesn't she come to you and explain that she wants to write about bedding another man. In that way you could respond to her and the two of you could talk it out and find out why that is? In secrecy however the feelings just grow until they become reality. Would you be okay with that? IMO privacy = trouble in a marriage. Good luck to you.


----------



## Wazza

I have to admit, the people attacking the wife annoy me. She has been tempted, but has not succumbed. She should be praised for that, not criticised. 

Not everyone is as malevolent and calculating as many of the posters here seem to believe.


----------



## hawkeye

Wazza said:


> I have to admit, the people attacking the wife annoy me. She has been tempted, but has not succumbed. She should be praised for that, not criticised.
> 
> Not everyone is as malevolent and calculating as many of the posters here seem to believe.


Welcome to TAM. If we could harness the distrust and paranoia of this place we'd be able to power the world for eternity.


----------



## Thundarr

hawkeye said:


> Welcome to TAM. If we could harness the distrust and paranoia of this place we'd be able to power the world for eternity.


TAM is a lot of things hawkeye. I think there's much more good than bad.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> I have to admit, the people attacking the wife annoy me. She has been tempted, but has not succumbed. She should be praised for that, not criticised.


A lot of people who really WANT to f*** other people have not "succumbed".

Its all about the perfect opportunity. Put them in a room together 1000 miles away, the clothes would melt off.

This isn't just a mere crush, she wrote down her fantasies and in every one of them, this friend was her main F doll. The OP even said as much.

With someone like that who is OBSESSED with this friend, do you really think if they were alone somewhere where OP would not be able to be there, and he took his clothes off in front of her, that she is going to say, "nah, I don't want to do anything with you"

Sorry, but this goes beyond just a fleeting crush or attraction. And she seems to like to fantasize and write book about real life people she'd like to bone all too much.


----------



## Revamped

And she did it to ge her husband to take notice.

And it worked.

Maybe he should spend more time talking with her than his nose in her journal.


----------



## vellocet

Revamped said:


> And she did it to ge her husband to take notice.


Only if she thought he would read her journal. Like someone else said, he broke in to read it. So I don't think she did it for him to take notice.



> Maybe he should spend more time talking with her than his nose in her journal.


Ah, so all her fantasy writing, a novel no less, was ALL to get him to notice?
You don't really believe that do you? If she did, she isn't very smart in making it about a friend of theirs.


----------



## Revamped

This wasn't the first time OP broke into her journal. He's done it numerous times throughout the marriage. All on the premise of "helping" the marriage.

She gave him enough ammo to hang himself. Threw away a friend to prove it.

Me? I don't snoop. But if I found that "literature" I'd certainly be talking to her about it. Not just glossing over a friend.

Oh, yeah, the conversation would start out as W T F as I threw the printed pages all over the room.


----------



## vellocet

If she did it for him to take notice, then upon discovery, she'd have told him, "Ha, see I knew you were reading my journal"

But that's not what happened. According to OP she is struggling with her feelings for this guy.

And again, if she did it for him to take notice, I'd hate to think she picked a friend knowing that it could be the end of the friendship.

But I'll have to digress. Apparently we are all the angry mob, his friend is getting the axe, and he is treating her like a poor little victim. So he is going to get what he deserves.


----------



## Chaparral

vellocet said:


> If she did it for him to take notice, then upon discovery, she'd have told him, "Ha, see I knew you were reading my journal"
> 
> But that's not what happened. According to OP she is struggling with her feelings for this guy.
> 
> And again, if she did it for him to take notice, I'd hate to think she picked a friend knowing that it could be the end of the friendship.
> 
> But I'll have to digress. Apparently we are all the angry mob, his friend is getting the axe, and he is treating her like a poor little victim. So he is going to get what he deserves.


It sounds to me like she's in love with the friend. 
What would you do? I think I would show her the door. I don't buy you can't control a crush. Being attracted to someone that's off limits isn't unusual but reveling in it and obsessing in it is unfaithful.


----------



## Thundarr

Revamped said:


> And she did it to ge her husband to take notice.
> 
> And it worked.
> 
> 
> 
> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only if she thought he would read her journal. Like someone else said, he broke in to read it. So I don't think she did it for him to take notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he should spend more time talking with her than his nose in her journal.
> 
> 
> 
> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so all her fantasy writing, a novel no less, was ALL to get him to notice?
> You don't really believe that do you? If she did, she isn't very smart in making it about a friend of theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think what Revamped is saying has some merit. OP said that he's saved the relationship several times before. So she knows he snoops because of history. It's not that much of a stretch to assume she wants to jerk his chain or make him jealous. Remember disfunctional relationships and co-dependency is not logical so we can't really apply logic to OP or to his wife.

I don't necessary think this is what's happened but it wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Divinely Favored

EXACYLY..as for Thor comment about faithful...Biblically she is unfaithful...fantasizing about another who. is not your spouse is already committing adultry.


----------



## Revamped

Chillax Ms Divine...

I could write D!ck and refer to Nixon and you'd believe I'm lusting.


----------



## that.girl

OP stated in his opening post that he breaks into computers for a living. Surely his wife knows that, and should realize her laptop is not secure. 
So most likely, either she's not very bright, she doesn't care if he reads her journal, or she is playing some kind of game with him. 

8 months is a long time to drag out this game, but stranger things have happened. 

If my husband was a hacker, i would put all sorts of odd references in my digital journal. If he ever approached me about my love of midget porn, I'd know exactly how much he respected my personal things.


----------



## Divinely Favored

WandaJ said:


> So, you are a GOD in this relationship, guiding your lost lamb, reading her most secret thoughts, all for her and your own good
> 
> Do you work for NSA, where the moral standards of privacy do not exist anymore?
> 
> I guess that makes me the "aggressive" poster.


He already said she is an introvert and will not communicate with him. He is just trying to find the leaks below the water line to keep the ship afloat. Leaks she knows about but will not say.

I know as I was like that in my marriage
I was the "Nice Guy" who kept my mouth closed and never wanted to hurt my wife's feelings. She was sick of having to "drag it out of me" when something is wrong. The lack of communication she exhibits will destroy a marriage. Mine was going down hill fast...till the Lord told me a husband and wife can not have this unresolved issues between them or it hinders your prayers and keeps you from getting closer to God.

In April, I dropped 15 years worth of anger, hurt and resentment in her lap. Things she said out of anger that cut me deep...I kept a lot of those wounds hidden till then. It blew her away...she was stunned to say the least. 

Now I COMMUNICATE with my wife. Night before last she told me she was sorry i was so miserable all those years. Our marriage is the most fulfilling and happy it has been in the 18 years.

OP You have to find a way to get her to communicate.

If BE is kissing your wifes hand he is not a friend to your marriage. That is openly flirting and trying to get her tingling. I bet you he was fishing for a reaction and now knows she can be caught if he wanted her, ego trip. She is on the back burner if his need ever arises and they are intoxicated and he can separate her, you are gonna hear "It was just a mistake!"


----------



## Wazza

vellocet said:


> A lot of people who really WANT to f*** other people have not "succumbed".
> 
> Its all about the perfect opportunity. Put them in a room together 1000 miles away, the clothes would melt off.


Sometimes lack of opportunity might be the deciding factor, sometimes it may be character. Sometimes people actually do the right thing.

Or do you believe that everyone is going to cheat if they get the chance? Including you and me?



vellocet said:


> This isn't just a mere crush, she wrote down her fantasies and in every one of them, this friend was her main F doll. The OP even said as much.
> 
> With someone like that who is OBSESSED with this friend, do you really think if they were alone somewhere where OP would not be able to be there, and he took his clothes off in front of her, that she is going to say, "nah, I don't want to do anything with you"
> 
> Sorry, but this goes beyond just a fleeting crush or attraction. And she seems to like to fantasize and write book about real life people she'd like to bone all too much.


Perhaps you could quote a single sentence of what she wrote that supports this? Just one?

What if OP, in addition to being willing to snoop in his wife's privacy, overreacted to what he read, and misrepresented what was written? To offer just one alternative.

And by the way, he said he is not accusing her of anything...

Sorry Vellocet, but you are really falling into paranoid thinking here. It's not fair, and imo it's unhealthy.


----------



## the guy

Divinely Favored said:


> bet you he was fishing for a reaction and now knows she can be caught if he wanted her, ego trip. She is on the back burner if his need ever arises and they are intoxicated and he can separate her, you are gonna hear "It was just a mistake!"


Or...."I don't know why,it just happened"

My favorite...." I was drunk, he didn't mean anything to me"


----------



## Wazza

Divinely Favored said:


> If BE is kissing your wifes hand he is not a friend to your marriage. That is openly flirting and trying to get her tingling.


Hand-kissing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Wazza

that.girl said:


> OP stated in his opening post that he breaks into computers for a living. Surely his wife knows that, and should realize her laptop is not secure.
> So most likely, either she's not very bright, she doesn't care if he reads her journal, or she is playing some kind of game with him.
> 
> 8 months is a long time to drag out this game, but stranger things have happened.
> 
> If my husband was a hacker, i would put all sorts of odd references in my digital journal. If he ever approached me about my love of midget porn, I'd know exactly how much he respected my personal things.


I like the way you think. But it's always possible that she loves him and just doesn't think he would do that.

My wife keeps a journal on paper. I know where she keeps it. I don't read it.


----------



## Wazza

Divinely Favored said:


> EXACYLY..as for Thor comment about faithful...Biblically she is unfaithful...fantasizing about another who. is not your spouse is already committing adultry.


Maybe she does not accept the authority of the Bible. 

(I do by the way, and I think you are totally missing the point of that teaching....but that would be a thread jack).


----------



## CluelessWif

For what it is worth, I think open communication was the right call. I love the tone of your entire post. It really sounds like you are dedicated to making your marriage work.

For the comments everyone has shared, each marriage is unique. Personally, I would be upset, but I am also the complete opposite of your wife, so obviously our marriages will be different.

She is right that this is completely natural and it is our decisions, not our urges, that make us human. It sounds like you trusted her to be faithful no matter what. 

I think you are doing something very right. Remember one thing when reading these posts: the situations here are the worst of the worst. I mean, those are generally the people who flock to support groups, right? It sounds like your relationship is far from that. Take it with a grain of salt and you will be fine.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Wazza said:


> that.girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP stated in his opening post that he breaks into computers for a living. Surely his wife knows that, and should realize her laptop is not secure.
> So most likely, either she's not very bright, she doesn't care if he reads her journal, or she is playing some kind of game with him.
> 
> 8 months is a long time to drag out this game, but stranger things have happened.
> 
> If my husband was a hacker, i would put all sorts of odd references in my digital journal. If he ever approached me about my love of midget porn, I'd know exactly how much he respected my personal things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the way you think. But it's always possible that she loves him and just doesn't think he would do that.
> 
> My wife keeps a journal on paper. I know where she keeps it. I don't read it.
Click to expand...

First off she is not Nancy Reagan. Second I wonder if he was looking down or did he bring her hand to his lips so he could maintain eye contact to give her that look and smirk.

I bet your wife actually communicates with you if there are problems in the marriage too. Not so with OP.


----------



## vellocet

Thundarr said:


> I think what Revamped is saying has some merit. OP said that he's saved the relationship several times before. So she knows he snoops because of history. It's not that much of a stretch to assume she wants to jerk his chain or make him jealous.


And about the OP saying she is struggling what to do about her feelings for this guy?


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> Sometimes lack of opportunity might be the deciding factor, sometimes it may be character. Sometimes people actually do the right thing.
> 
> Or do you believe that everyone is going to cheat if they get the chance? Including you and me?


No, not at all. I qualified my statements that this is no ordinary crush. Not only is she a serial crusher with coworkers, 

Everyone can and will be attracted to other people. 

OP's wife, however, goes beyond that. Fantasizes, obsesses, and writes a book on it. That's the difference.





> Perhaps you could quote a single sentence of what she wrote that supports this? Just one?


Did you not read what OP has written?

He said her fantasies are written down in her journal, and EVERY ONE involves this friend.

If you want specifics, you are going to have to ask OP that question.




> What if OP, in addition to being willing to snoop in his wife's privacy, overreacted to what he read, and misrepresented what was written? To offer just one alternative.


1) You'll have to ask him, but it was bad enough for him to ditch a friend over.

2) I doubt these "fantasies" of which she wrote that included the friend are about going grocery shopping.




> And by the way, he said he is not accusing her of anything...


Precisely, that's that "opportunity" thing I was talking about.




> Sorry Vellocet, but you are really falling into paranoid thinking here. It's not fair, and imo it's unhealthy.


I'm not the one that found his wife's fantasies, every one having to do with their friend, in a journal and created an account here to come talk about it.

Sorry, you missed.


----------



## Revamped

OP can have any interpretation of his wife's feelings he wants to.

It just may be not that very accurate.


----------



## vellocet

Revamped said:


> OP can have any interpretation of his wife's feelings he wants to.
> 
> It just may be not that very accurate.


I agree. However, sometimes it pretty clear.

Did she write down in her journal fantasizing that he is a Prince and she is a Princess?

Did she write in the journal about going roller skating with the guy?

Or did she write down detailing how she'd like to get the hell boned out of her by him?

Not that OP needs to detail what she wrote, but I'm thinking for him to be upset about it, it probably is more along the lines of the latter scenario.


----------



## Wazza

Divinely Favored said:


> First off she is not Nancy Reagan. Second I wonder if he was looking down or did he bring her hand to his lips so he could maintain eye contact to give her that look and smirk.


All of which is supposition. The point is that your original accusation that hand kissing proves dishonourable intent ignores centuries of cultural tradition. 



Divinely Favored said:


> I bet your wife actually communicates with you if there are problems in the marriage too. Not so with OP.


Actually my wife and I have communication problems which we recognise and are working on. And at one stage they did lead to an affair. So all this is kind of personal for me. Which is why it distresses me so much to see people making stuff up rather than working with the facts in a rational way.


----------



## AliceA

that.girl said:


> OP stated in his opening post that he breaks into computers for a living. Surely his wife knows that, and should realize her laptop is not secure.
> So most likely, either she's not very bright, she doesn't care if he reads her journal, or she is playing some kind of game with him.
> 
> 8 months is a long time to drag out this game, but stranger things have happened.
> 
> If my husband was a hacker, i would put all sorts of odd references in my digital journal. If he ever approached me about my love of midget porn, I'd know exactly how much he respected my personal things.


This whole thing of, "she knows he breaks into computers for a living so must know he's doing it to her" line of thinking is a bit rubbish really. So what if he does it "for a living". So does my DH, though it's a small part of what he does, he can do it easily enough. I don't assume he would read my journal just because he can.... what kind of marriage would you have if you thought your partner would do these sorts of things just because they can?

I manage everything to do with money, and could easily take money without DH knowing, does that mean he should assume I would? Just because someone *can* doesn't mean they *would* or *should*.


----------



## Wazza

Wazza said:


> OK, let's remind ourselves what we have here, and what we don't have.
> 
> 
> rnd_usr said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is flirting with her, but definitely not pursing her. <snip> I don't think he means leading her on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rnd_usr said:
> 
> 
> 
> From her journal, he is in all her fantasies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rnd_usr said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: today I mentioned I'm thinking of cutting off my friend. <snip>
> The expression on her face was relieve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rnd_usr said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is suffering from her uncontrollable feelings toward my best friend. She wants to get rid of these feelings, and it is making her hate herself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rnd_usr said:
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't. They don't talk to each other. <snip.She doesn't flirt back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What, beyond desires which she is not acting on, is she guilty of?
Click to expand...




rnd_usr said:


> I've never said she's guilty of anything.





rnd_usr said:


> On a final note, for a support forum, a lot of commenters were too aggressive and judgemental. What's worse were those who jumped to give their advice without reading the full post. For the next person seeking advice here, good luck separating the rational thinkers from the angry mob.





vellocet said:


> Put them in a room together 1000 miles away, the clothes would melt off.
> 
> This isn't just a mere crush, she wrote down her fantasies and in every one of them, this friend was her main F doll. The OP even said as much.
> 
> With someone like that who is OBSESSED with this friend, do you really think if they were alone somewhere where OP would not be able to be there, and he took his clothes off in front of her, that she is going to say, "nah, I don't want to do anything with you"
> 
> Sorry, but this goes beyond just a fleeting crush or attraction. And she seems to like to fantasize and write book about real life people she'd like to bone all too much.





vellocet said:


> Did you not read what OP has written?
> <snip>
> If you want specifics, you are going to have to ask OP that question.


I did read what he has written. I even asked him. For example, where did OP talk about F dolls? 

You are seeing things that are just not there.


----------



## Q tip

His buddy has a higher sex rank. She's merely responding to that. 

And the fact her H did not go caveman when he kissed her hand. Respect is going the wrong way and beta man has not yet likely read, memorized and acted on MMSLP. 

She's mentally wandering, he ain't putting a halt to it

OK, now for the worst-case harsh tough love paragraph...

OP, everything you've been taught about women is wrong. Get reading and up your game or she's gonna be someone else's who steps up. Women are programmed to respond to her man. Give her something manly to respond to. She'll follow. Problem solved.

This is based on what you've written. Just like another post of a womanizer (friended them and seduced her) who did the guys wife. Very similar story in CWI. He knew all about him and did nothing...!

You have every right to protect your marriage. Do just that.


----------



## that.girl

breeze said:


> This whole thing of, "she knows he breaks into computers for a living so must know he's doing it to her" line of thinking is a bit rubbish really. So what if he does it "for a living". So does my DH, though it's a small part of what he does, he can do it easily enough. I don't assume he would read my journal just because he can.... what kind of marriage would you have if you thought your partner would do these sorts of things just because they can?
> 
> I manage everything to do with money, and could easily take money without DH knowing, does that mean he should assume I would? Just because someone *can* doesn't mean they *would* or *should*.


I don't mean to imply that it's okay for him to do it, or anything like that. Just that it's entirely possible she's known the whole time. Not guaranteed, but definitely possible.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> I did read what he has written. I even asked him. For example, where did OP talk about F dolls?
> 
> You are seeing things that are just not there.


If what you say is true, then he doesn't need to be here. Nothing wrong, no reason to create an account and ask a bunch of questions about it.

Ayi yi yi, he didn't say anything about F dolls, *it was an example *of what was more than likely in the journal, like fantasizing about using their friend as her own personal F doll. Understand now?

If you think he created an account and came here because she had fantasies of going roller skating with him(again, an *example*), then you are delusional.

Also no need to dump his friend if you think this isn't serious. Hell, didn't have to dump his friend anyway. He isn't the problem here.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Their is limited room and rationale for privacy in a marriage. A relationship should be build upon honesty and cooperation, not upon keeping secrets from each other. 

Of-course, some thoughts often come in mind which shall not be considered for a rational discussion but a line shall be drawn about what constitutes as dishonesty in the matters of disclosure in marriage. 

So-called _personal_ diaries should also be accessible in a marriage among other stuff. If not, then do's and don'ts concerning disclosures should be ideally discussed with the partner to reach an understanding in this regard. However, it shall be kept in mind that irrespective of an understanding about privacy related considerations in a marriage, if a spouse demonstrates signs of acting-up (unusual act) at some point, this is likely to invoke or trigger "snooping behavior" from the partner of the spouse to determine the reasons for the unusual act if effective communication and honesty is lacking between them. Their is wisdom in the saying: "trust, but verify." 

I am highly transparent with my fiancée concerning my history and same is true for her. I came to realize the importance of effective communication and honesty in a relationship prior to commencement of my own and facilitated cultivation of an healthy communication dynamic between me and my fiancée. End result is that we both feel confident about disclosing lot of information to each other before marriage. 

I can respect the desire of my partner to uphold privacy in "sensitive matters" concerning the spouse's family members that do no concern me directly or indirectly, but additional secrets would bother me.

In addition, I don't the see the wisdom in a keeping a "womanizing" friend after own marriage. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## vellocet

I know she wasn't physically cheating, but this whole thread reminds me of this meme:


----------



## hawkeye

LeGenDary_Man said:


> In addition, I don't the see the wisdom in a keeping a "womanizing" friend after own marriage. Better safe than sorry.


Despite the fact there's no evidence this friend wants anything to do with his wife? Sigh.


----------



## vellocet

hawkeye said:


> Despite the fact there's no evidence this friend wants anything to do with his wife? Sigh.


Yup, he is the problem here. All his fault. Forget the fact she is a serial crusher and has a pattern of writing fantasies about other men she knows well.  She's an innocent victim.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

hawkeye said:


> Despite the fact there's no evidence this friend wants anything to do with his wife? Sigh.


The friend's kissing behavior seems to have triggered the wife's emotions or crush or whatever. The husband also revealed that his friend is really good at charming and wooing women.

I am not in the position to comment on the friend's intent behind his _hand_-kissing act but many men would not find this kind of interaction between a male friend and wife acceptable (including myself).

As for the wife, I do feel that she is also at fault in this case. I get the attraction argument, but I also believe that a _mature_ woman should have sufficient self-control to prevent formulation of emotional attachments with other men, specially when she is married. The wife needs IC to work on her self-esteem related issues.

The husband needs to do some homework on his part as well, focus on existential shortcomings in his relationship with his wife that includes _poor communication dynamic_ since this factor alone is a recipe for disaster. He may need IC as well.


----------



## Thundarr

A diary is self expression to one's self. It's not like instant messaging or phone calls or conversations because there's no one else involved. I think it's a perversion of the definition of transparency when we think it's okay to break open someone else's diary. It would be like hooking up electrodes and snooping on their personal thoughts that they don't share with any other person unless they choose to. It's more akin to thought police.

No this transparency angle is off base. OP is betraying his wife by secretly reading her diary.


----------



## rnd_usr

It is really interesting to see how much interest this post have created. I am going to respond to all the question just because I owe you. You guys have helped me, and now I am going to entertain you with more details 

Edit: I don't actually mean "entertain you". My main issue is now solved. I have other issues to discuss. If it wasn't for this post and your replies. I would have discussed them.


----------



## rnd_usr

Revamped said:


> I take it you didn't tell her about reading her personal journal then. And I suppose, in your eyes, you'll keep on doing it because it makes you look like a caring husband instead of an inconsiderate snoop...


I think I got what I needed from snooping on her. I will probably stop if things become better as I try to become a more attentive husband and up my game.

From your response and others, I also better understand the value of open communication. Her confusion to a previous crush is a step forward.

You need to understand this, she is very hard to communicate with. I need to get her very emotional before she opens up about her issues. Whether be it about our relationship or her career. Very emotional usually mean a fight 

Another issue we have, while I am on top of my career setting on the board of a couple of companies, she's in the same field stuck in middle management.

This is probably how I started snooping. She told me once she's not happy with her job, I looked up were she was applying. I pulled some strings to get her hired in her dream job. Long story short, she's still not happy with her job.

That's why I am agreeing with you, and others, that snooping is probably not helping. However, the post was all about advice on how to react to her crush to my best friend. It would have been more helpful if replies were more focused on the main issue rather than arguing and attacking each other (I mean other poster) on side issues.

No marriage is perfect. It is not required to be. We all settle to our SO imperfections. We all have our long list of issues. My wife and I are happily married. I needed advice on how to handle this specific issue. As a support forum, replies shouldn't be about expressing opinions on side issues.

I am used to the aggressiveness in "internet discussions". Others might not be. So, please take that into consideration when giving advice to the next OP. Most people who come here for the first time are angry and vulnerable. Just take it easy on them. 

The last paragraph is not only addressed to Revamped. I am also including those whose advice were in the lines of "get yourself a better wife". This was really awful!


----------



## rnd_usr

The Middleman said:


> The wife is crushing on the husband's best friend and based on his posts, crushing enough to cause her serious anxiety and emotional distress. This is why I advised him to cut off the relationship with the BF. No explanations are necessary to the BF or the wife, it's the OP's prerogative who he wants to be friends with.
> 
> I agree with others, there is no true expectation of privacy in marriage. I've been through that battle myself and I didn't bend on it. The OP should continue to monitor the 'situation' and make sure that there is no contact between his wife and the BF. The crush will fade. If he continues the friendship I strongly feel she will act on the crush at some point.


While I don't feel she will act on it, I am taking your advice.


----------



## rnd_usr

Divinely Favored said:


> Hawkeye and Thor I for one have not fantasized about other women besides my wife. My fantasies are for my wife only. To fantasize and foster lustful feelings about others than spouse are wrong. Christ said they have already committed adultry in their heart.


While I've never fantasized about other women too, I think it's not her fault for her to do so.

Whatever Christ said, it was more than 2000 years ago. Please don't run your/her life based on what he said. The world have moved on.

In other words, if you even run into the a similar situation I'm into, don't quote Christ.


----------



## rnd_usr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This thread is fascinating with the divisiveness.
> 
> I have a question for the OP, which I am surprised no one asked, what else did she do in the past?


A lot  .. where should I start ...

She hid a bank account from me once. I sent her a message by depositing a load of money into that account.

To be honest, I really want her to know that I know all the stuff she's keeping private.


----------



## rnd_usr

soccermom2three said:


> OP, maybe a less snooping and computer time and maybe more actions to keep your wife's attraction and needs met. Then she would have these crushes.


YES!

That's exactly what I am doing. Being a more attentive husband!


----------



## Thor

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See, I've seen womanizer used in a similar manner, no way are they completely the same, as sl*t when it is a gy who "dates" a ton of women. Even if he only dates single women, a guy can be labelled a womanizer.


What we need is a clearer definition of what "womanizer" means wrt this specific friend.

I think of it as a "player", someone who has many ONS and who seeks sex with as many women as possible. Players or womanizers that I know of do not respect the boundaries of a marrige. Their theory is if a woman makes her body available, he will not judge the morality of her being married.

But, perhaps the guy in this case simply never keeps any girlfriend more than 6 months. He might have a very strong respect for marriages and never ever goes after a married woman.


----------



## rnd_usr

Wazza said:


> We only have one concrete example, and in that she clearly states that she sees no threat to the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to justify to her that her privacy was violated because of something she doesn't see as a threat. It's her marriage too.
> 
> Does your spouse get any say in the shape of your marriage, or is it ok to ignore their views whenever you disagree?
> 
> The journal does not necessarily represent objective truth. It represents things she needs to express at a point in time. To read it as a factual account is fraught with danger.
> 
> Rnd_usr, if you are still following, have a look at this short video.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
> 
> Like me, you might take the guy's side. The females I have shared this with take the girl's side. I am slowly understanding why.... :scratchhead:
> 
> Try watching it with your wife. Ask her what she thinks. If you treat everything she says as valid, and try and get a glimpse of her perspective, it might give you some insight into her thought processes, which in turn might help effective communications.
> 
> You're a logical person, smart and articulate. If your wife is not the same way, you might think that your logical arguments are swaying her in various discussions, when in fact she's thinking, "He argues better than I do. That doesn't make him right just better at arguing. I will just hold my opinions to myself to avoid those arguments".
> 
> For me, at any rate, listening more is the way to better communications. Logic wins the battle, but loses the war. Arguments are won by emotion as much as logic.


She's a very smart, logical, and articulate person! It's sometimes the other way around, compared with the video, between us.


----------



## rnd_usr

the guy said:


> I'm glad you guys talked and she admitted her crush/crush's and you are keeping your friend away for now.
> 
> So whats the plan with your wife?


I am trying to be a more attentive husband. Spend more time at home than work. I think that was the source of all the issues we had.

Part of the open discussion we've been having for the last couple of days, her confession that she thought I was cheating on her. This was because I was spending long hours at works while going back home very tired and stressed. In other words, not giving her, or our kid, any attention.


----------



## rnd_usr

Tobyboy said:


> She only admitted to a crush on a coworker, not the best friend! Why is that? Because this ain't no crush.......it's an eight month obsession that will escalate even more now that she won't have easy access to. OP, be prepare for your W to manufacture ways for her to get her obsession needs met some other way!!! I suspect FB will be her(first) drug of choice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To be fair, it is 8 months of ups and downs with her obsession. She would forget all about it for a couple of weeks, then comes back after we all go out together. That's why I think it will fade away if I keep a distance between them.


----------



## rnd_usr

vellocet said:


> Here is what I don't get. He is ditching his friendship with this guy because of HER fantasies. Did this friend somehow make a pass at her? He is throwing away a friendship because his wife has the hots for him?
> Was it written that this friend feels the same way towards her? If not, then not exactly fair to his friend.


Look. The most important thing here is to save a marriage. Her crush is affecting our relationship negatively. Who knows how bad things can go from here?! The best thing to do is to play it safe and cut off the friend at least for a while. It can't hurt anyway.


----------



## rnd_usr

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But this is conventional wisdom on here that toxic friends go. His BF may not be toxic with respect to the crush that his wife feels; however, being friends of a womanizer (possibly sleeping around with other married women???) is not exactly a good long term friendship to have. By his actions, the BF is not a friend of marriage in general.


He's not sleeping around with other married women. He's a good person and good friend. 

But as I mentioned before, his actions have led my wife on developing a crush, whether it was intentional or not. It is best for *me* to cut him off for a while. And, yes, I am being selfish here!

By the way, it's not a crush that is only expressed in her journals. It's also directly affecting our relationship and our sex life.


----------



## krismimo

Divinely Favored said:


> He already said she is an introvert and will not communicate with him. He is just trying to find the leaks below the water line to keep the ship afloat. Leaks she knows about but will not say.
> 
> I know as I was like that in my marriage
> I was the "Nice Guy" who kept my mouth closed and never wanted to hurt my wife's feelings. She was sick of having to "drag it out of me" when something is wrong. The lack of communication she exhibits will destroy a marriage. Mine was going down hill fast...till the Lord told me a husband and wife can not have this unresolved issues between them or it hinders your prayers and keeps you from getting closer to God.
> 
> In April, I dropped 15 years worth of anger, hurt and resentment in her lap. Things she said out of anger that cut me deep...I kept a lot of those wounds hidden till then. It blew her away...she was stunned to say the least.
> 
> Now I COMMUNICATE with my wife. Night before last she told me she was sorry i was so miserable all those years. Our marriage is the most fulfilling and happy it has been in the 18 years.
> 
> OP You have to find a way to get her to communicate.
> 
> If BE is kissing your wifes hand he is not a friend to your marriage. That is openly flirting and trying to get her tingling. I bet you he was fishing for a reaction and now knows she can be caught if he wanted her, ego trip. She is on the back burner if his need ever arises and they are intoxicated and he can separate her, you are gonna hear "It was just a mistake!"



*You are not god and if you a christian, your not suppose to judge and you are doing it....*


----------



## rnd_usr

Thundarr said:


> :iagree:
> In my opinion, rnd_usr is setting a low bar regarding expectations from his wife. She is indeed in control and accountable for her own actions. The relationship is disfunctional IMO. Accountability and respect are being replaced with snooping and damage control.
> 
> To clarify a different thought, my wife is at work today and I fully expect her to not fall in love or have an affair with any co-workers. It's not too much to expect. My wife does not have a diary but if she did then I believe she would expect me to not read it. Now I'm all for transparency and I'm not against snooping if red flags are popping up but I don't think it should be a way of life.


IMO. It's your responsibility as a husband to leave no space in her heart to fall in love with a coworker or a friend.

The logic is this. She choose me to get married to. We were deeply in love until a few months. WTF have I done/changed to lose her?!


----------



## rnd_usr

Revamped said:


> It's a sick game they play with each other. He thinks he's got the upper hand in the relationship because he reads her private thoughts.
> 
> She, in turn, makes the "thoughts" a juicy read, making him get rid of a friend.
> 
> I'd like to know what she'll write next, just to see him act all jealousy over it.


I know her more that you do. She is not expecting me to read her journals.


----------



## krismimo

Here is the thing that is being glossed over, she hasn't done anything. She hasn't tried anything or said anything about wanting to be alone with him, nothing of the sort. 

This is troublesome, she is writing something down in her head without any communication, what was she supposed to say? Gee honey I have a crush on your friend?! Again she has not done anything to anyone, not yet. And what i find interesting is that the OP still has not answered any questions about their relationship as to why he feels he needs to break into her lap top? I wonder if she did that to him how would he feel? I just get this feeling that he wants to catch his wife doing something wrong I don't buy one bit that he feels that he has to break into her lap top to communicate with her, something is not adding up here.


----------



## rnd_usr

vellocet said:


> No, just cut him out as a friend completely. He shouldn't get to be considered a friend at your convenience.
> 
> And what is this? Let him be a friend but not let him be near your wife? Sorry. He isn't the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oy vey :slap:
> 
> So not only do you not realize the problem is your wife and her desires for him, now this is all his fault and she is an innocent victim in all of this?
> 
> Ayi yi yi. What is it really that you two talked about for her to be able to shift the blame away from the real problem?


The real problem is that I gave her the space to think of someone else. It is my fault and I will try to fix it by being a more attentive husband, have more open discussions, and upping my game. Having my friend out of the picture, IMO, will help. A selfish act on my behave. But he is my friend, not hers. In the end, I get to choose who to be friends with based on my convenience. There are no moral/social standards for this.

Why do you feel you have to cast your opinion on this?!


----------



## that.girl

rnd_usr said:


> I know her more that you do. She is not expecting me to read her journals.


Are you concerned about how she will feel about you when she finds out? Once you get past all the ugly stuff you read that she didn't tell you, and she starts asking how long you've been reading her private thoughts and using the information to modify her behavior, do you think she'll still be able to trust you? 

OP, that's not a challenge to you, but an honest question.


----------



## rnd_usr

vellocet said:


> Yup, and it looks as if the friend is going to get the blame seeing as how he is the one getting the axe.
> 
> I'd like to hear the explanation to this friend. "I am ditching you as a friend because my wife thinks you are hot and fantasizes about you. This is your fault, therefore you are the one that has to go."


It's much simpler than this. I'll just postpone every out going with him because I'm "busy". After a while, he'll stop calling and that is that.

Sooner or later, he will get married, and this whole thing will be forgotten/behind us and I will reconnect with him.

Although he have been my best friend since 20 years, we have disconnected from time to time.


----------



## Wazza

How long did you know her prior to marriage?

You've been married about 6 years and I am a great believer in the 7 year itch. This may just be your relationship going thru a normal cycle.


----------



## rnd_usr

vellocet said:


> One can be a womanizer but know that friends' wives are off limits.
> 
> And you are assuming this is what he means. Still, its his wife that is the problem, not the friend. Like I said, unless he made a pass at her or something.
> 
> Actually he is lucky he has this friend.  Nothing inappropriate is going on apparently. But having a friend like him is bringing out his wife's true character. Now he knows how she is, but he is going to choose to ignore it(while still spying on her) and give friend the boot.
> 
> 
> But really, its a moot point. He constantly "invaded her privacy", knows she wants to have sex with him, he didn't do anything, he gets the axe, and now we are all the bad guys for pointing this out.
> 
> So case closed, he found his solution. Thread can be ended.


I have to confess that I felt some (perhaps I should say a lot of) relief that is was him whom she was crushing on. This was a much better situation when she was crushing on a coworker. But that coworker crush lasted a few days before it faded away. This one lasted for 8 months. I trust him and her that an affair will never happen.

However, my plan is to fix the root of our issues, and his absence can only help. Or, perhaps I should say, it can't hurt.


----------



## rnd_usr

Revamped said:


> It would have been much more an interesting time if OP would have played "grammar police" on his wife's writing.


OH ... You have no idea!


----------



## Thundarr

rnd_usr said:


> IMO. It's your responsibility as a husband to leave no space in her heart to fall in love with a coworker or a friend.
> 
> The logic is this. She choose me to get married to. We were deeply in love until a few months. WTF have I done/changed to lose her?!


Well I'm glad you came back. I thought you hit the door and wouldn't be back.

It's true that as a husband you protect your marriage. Now if red flags were popping up and you invaded the diary as a result then I get the sequence of events and the motivation but snooping needs to be a rare occasion and not a way of marriage. You mentioned that you've saved your marriage or something like that more than once by snooping and that's a red flag to me. As a husband and as a man, you've got to set expectations and make sure your wife knows what they are. That includes telling her what you expect of yourself.

For a marriage to be healthy and lasting, both partners have to be accountable for their own actions and they shouldn't need to be rescued by their partner over and over. They has to be a loyal wife even when you don't notice red flags and snoop. At the end of the day, you deserve a woman who is loyal because she loves you and who knows how to avoid temptation. She deserves the same from you.

Okay I'm just some internet guy you don't know so take my words for their content. Lasting love and commitment takes work from both parties. Snooping and saving the day is a short term solution. As krismimo mentioned, she hadn't done anything wrong actually so maybe you didn't say the say at all. After all actions speak louder than words.


----------



## rnd_usr

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This seems to be an about face against what typically is given as advice on TAM. The wife is the main issue here, by far. I don't think the OP has to cut his friend out, and it should be quite easy to keep the BF and his wife apart. I will say though that the fact that a womanize is the best friend of the OP says a lot about the OP. Living vicariously thru others and not doing much himself? Maybe.


Please elaborate.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

vellocet said:


> I know she wasn't physically cheating, but this whole thread reminds me of this meme:


 Interesting. I'm thinking more:


----------



## rnd_usr

krismimo said:


> Here is the thing that is being glossed over, she hasn't done anything. She hasn't tried anything or said anything about wanting to be alone with him, nothing of the sort.
> 
> This is troublesome, she is writing something down in her head without any communication, what was she supposed to say? Gee honey I have a crush on your friend?! Again she has not done anything to anyone, not yet. And what i find interesting is that the OP still has not answered any questions about thier relationship as to why he feels he needs to break into her lap top? I wonder if she did that to him how would he feel? I just get this feeling that he wants to catch his wife doing something wrong I don't buy one bit that he feels that he has to break into her lap top to communicate with her, something is not adding up here.


I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that.

On the other hand, I am not keeping any secrets on her. I really have nothing to hide. A journal, or a browsing history, or anything.


----------



## rnd_usr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Interesting. I'm thinking more:


I agree with that. Thoughts shouldn't be policed. That have been my stand from the very beginning.


----------



## rnd_usr

Wazza said:


> How long did you know her prior to marriage?
> 
> You've been married about 6 years and I am a great believer in the 7 year itch. This may just be your relationship going thru a normal cycle.


About a year before we got married. We've been communicating online several years before we actually met in person. She knew me in person before I've met her as I was a public figure in the field.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

rnd_usr said:


> I agree with that. Thoughts shouldn't be policed. That have been my stand from the very beginning.


That isn't what I read in your posts, but okay.
So, why does your wife write in a journal?


----------



## rnd_usr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> That isn't what I read in your posts, but okay.
> So, why does your wife write in a journal?


That's her choice, not mine. Probably to release stress and think things through. I don't know. I've never kept a journal. But, whenever I'm puzzled about something, always work related, I write my thoughts down. It just clears my thought process.


----------



## Cynthia

Journaling is considered a helpful and healthy habit. It helps people to organize their thoughts, see patterns, and work through issues in a healthy way. It is also a better way to vent, than to go off on someone. My parents gave me my first journal when I was in 2nd grade, so I would have been about seven. I have been journaling ever since. I find it to be extremely helpful and therapeutic. My husband has never read my journal. For one thing, he knows that when I'm angry with him, I write all about how angry I am so I can vent, work through it, and cool off, often before talking to him. He wouldn't want to read that. He likes my cooled off side better. 
My reasons for journaling are common.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

rnd_usr said:


> That's her choice, not mine. Probably to release stress and think things through. I don't know.


So, you do not know. 

You have created a viscous cycle. 
She doesn't communicate except in her journal.
You use the journal, instead of communicating with your wife, to fix problems.

At some point, you are going to be late in addressing an important issue. Go get counseling for both of you and learn how to properly communicate .


----------



## Thor

rnd_usr said:


> I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that.
> 
> On the other hand, I am not keeping any secrets on her. I really have nothing to hide. A journal, or a browsing history, or anything.


So when are you printing off this entire thread and handing it to your wife?


----------



## TRy

rnd_usr said:


> IMO. It's your responsibility as a husband to leave no space in her heart to fall in love with a coworker or a friend.
> 
> The logic is this. She choose me to get married to. We were deeply in love until a few months. WTF have I done/changed to lose her?!


 What you do not understand is that you are trying to win a game that you cannot win. You are not competing against just another man. The fantasy that she wants is having both you and the other man. No matter how hard you try to be the perfect husband, the perfect you by yourself are not going to be as attractive to her as both the perfect you and someone else.


----------



## warlock07

rnd_usr said:


> The real problem is that I gave her the space to think of someone else. It is my fault and I will try to fix it by being a more attentive husband, have more open discussions, and upping my game. !


I think this is sad. 

Did she tell you why she had a secret bank account ?


----------



## Wazza

Hmmm....this question won't go down well, but.....she is an adult. If she chooses to have a secret bank account, why is she not allowed to?

FWIW....my bank account isn't secret, but my wife and I keep separate finances. For various reasons we feel it works better for us. I know what my wife makes, but I could not tell you what savings she has. 

So she has a secret bank account (which means she decided to) and you find out and put money into it (which means you unilaterally override her decision). She has a journal where she writes stuff (which means she decided to) and you break into it (which means you unilaterally override her decision). And from what you have said, there may be more such incidents.

How would you feel if she started unilaterally overriding your decisions?


----------



## NoChoice

hawkeye said:


> Welcome to TAM. If we could harness the distrust and paranoia of this place we'd be able to power the world for eternity.


Inquisition: Who is more likely paranoid, someone who is open and upfront or someone who makes "secret" entries into a journal?



Wazza said:


> Hmmm....this question won't go down well, but.....she is an adult. If she chooses to have a secret bank account, why is she not allowed to?
> 
> *Because she chose to UNITE in a sacred joining wherein two people become one. Perhaps Mr. Webster can help some of you with the definition of the word. What's mine is yours and what's yours is mine...ring a bell with anyone?*
> 
> FWIW....my bank account isn't secret, but my wife and I keep separate finances. For various reasons we feel it works better for us. I know what my wife makes, but I could not tell you what savings she has.
> 
> *Big difference between separate finances and "secret" finances.*
> 
> 
> How would you feel if she started unilaterally overriding your decisions?
> 
> *If they were bad decisions they should be overridden*


Allow me to posit some questions. Let's assume that you (whoever happens to be reading this) and another individual decide to form a partnership and go into a venture together. How much secrecy would you expect from your partner regarding items related to the business? How much is acceptable? Would you feel within your rights as a partner to have full knowledge of anything and everything regarding your business? Is that unreasonable? Should your partner become enraged that you took it upon yourself to "dig out" information on their covert activities if such secrets were suspected? Regardless of whether or not your partner was acting on this information, would you want to know about the potential and how it could affect your venture and partnership? Would you feel uneasy about the fact that your partner in this venture was unwilling to be open and honest with you? Would it undermine your trust in the partnership? How strong would you say the partnership was if secrets were being withheld and there was not complete openness and honesty? And finally would all of this apply to intellectual property?

Marriage is a partnership of the highest order.


----------



## that.girl

There's something that starting to bother me about this thread. 

Since you've met, you've been more powerful and influential than her. You pull strings to get her jobs. You've been reading her diary for what sounds like a long period of time, out of sheer curiosity. You use the information in it to "lead" her in disagreements, and to change her behavior. You track down her stash of money, and add a large amount of your own to make a statement. You plan on simply cutting your friend off without explanation, then bringing him back into the fold when you're good and ready. 

She feels the need to hide money from you, and isn't comfortable talking to you. 

You guys have much deeper problems than a diary and a crush. As I'm reading your responses, i get they impression you aren't afraid to manipulate people into doing what you want, if you think you know what's best for them. That's no way to run a marriage.


----------



## Thundarr

that.girl said:


> You guys have much deeper problems than a diary and a crush. As I'm reading your responses, i get they impression you aren't afraid to manipulate people into doing what you want, if you think you know what's best for them. That's no way to run a marriage.


You're smelling the same thing I am and it's not roses. So far we're dealing with two adults in theory but one day there may be children in the picture and makes things much more problematic.


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> Hmmm....this question won't go down well, but.....she is an adult. If she chooses to have a secret bank account, why is she not allowed to?


 Because they are married.

This "she is an adult" thing does not wash when it comes to hiding financial assets from your spouse. Unless you have an unlimited amount of money, they as a married couple are making decisions on what they can afford and what they cannot afford based on what they have as a couple. For one party to withhold financial information from the other as such decisions are being made is dishonest and a financial betrayal.


----------



## that.girl

TRy said:


> Because they are married.
> 
> This "she is an adult" thing does not wash when it comes to hiding financial assets from your spouse. Unless you have an unlimited amount of money, they as a married couple are making decisions on what they can afford and what they cannot afford based on what they have as a couple. For one party to withhold financial information from the other as such decisions are being made is dishonest and a financial betrayal.


Clearly this married couple does not make decisions together. And i don't think it's fair to call it betrayal without knowing WHY she hid the money. That's not something a happy, safe, secure woman usually does.


----------



## naiveonedave

TRy said:


> Because they are married.
> 
> This "she is an adult" thing does not wash when it comes to hiding financial assets from your spouse. Unless you have an unlimited amount of money, they as a married couple are making decisions on what they can afford and what they cannot afford based on what they have as a couple. For one party to withhold financial information from the other as such decisions are being made is dishonest and a financial betrayal.


I agree. Essentially financial infedility.


----------



## NoChoice

that.girl said:


> Clearly this married couple does not make decisions together. And i don't think it's fair to call it betrayal without knowing WHY she hid the money. That's not something a happy, safe, secure woman usually does.


This is troubling to me too. She is closed off from H, non communicative and introverted, opens secret accounts, keeps a private journal wherein she fantasizes about other men. Perhaps more here than we are being told? Does not sound like a woman in love and in a secure relationship.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Another indication that there are two sides to every story.


----------



## TRy

NoChoice said:


> This is troubling to me too. She is closed off from H, non communicative and introverted, opens secret accounts, keeps a private journal wherein she fantasizes about other men. Perhaps more here than we are being told? Does not sound like a woman in love and in a secure relationship.


 Based on what you just said, there is a real possibility that she married for convenience because she did not have a better option. If so, her behavior and actions are consistent with someone that would be open to a better option.


----------



## Wazza

I will repeat. The wife is an adult. Bottom line - the marriage has to be agreeable to her. A partnership, not a hostile takeover.

In most parts of the world, if she wants to end the marriage, all she has to do is make that decision, and there will be nothing rnd_usr can do about it.

Nothing about what you or I think a marriage should look like changes this.


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> I will repeat. The wife is an adult. Bottom line - the marriage has to be agreeable to her. A partnership, not a hostile takeover.
> 
> In most parts of the world, if she wants to end the marriage, all she has to do is make that decision, and there will be nothing rnd_usr can do about it.
> 
> Nothing about what you or I think a marriage should look like changes this.


 You can say exactly the same thing about cheating, but that does not make cheating right. Nor does it make you have to tolerate it.


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> You can say exactly the same thing about cheating, but that does not make cheating right. Nor does it make you have to tolerate it.


I agree. So don't tolerate it. Divorce her....

But if you don't want to, what is the best way forward? 

My post was never about what's right. It was about possible cause and effect.

Maybr replace my earlier analogy, "partnership vs hostile takeover", with "rape vs seduction".


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> My post was never about what's right. It was about possible cause and effect.
> 
> Maybr replace my earlier analogy, "partnership vs hostile takeover", with "rape vs seduction".


 The difference between rape and seduction is her saying yes or no. She said yes to the marriage when she said "I do". If she no longer want in, she needs to tell him, because it is about what's wrong and what's right.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

TRy said:


> If so, her behavior and actions are consistent with someone that would be open to a better option.


Interesting. 

Her actions also fit another behavior pattern, but I'm bowing out before I basically Godwin the thread.


----------



## Q tip

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Her actions also fit another behavior pattern, but I'm bowing out before I basically Godwin the thread.


Lol...:lol:


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> The difference between rape and seduction is her saying yes or no. She said yes to the marriage when she said "I do". If she no longer want in, she needs to tell him, because it is about what's wrong and what's right.


We can talk about who is more right or wrong but not sure that helps. Even if his approach is faultless, rnd_usr gets to decide whether to compromise for the sake of his marriage, or dig his heels in and risk being right but alone.


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> We can talk about who is more right or wrong but not sure that helps. Even if his approach is faultless, rnd_usr gets to decide whether to compromise for the sake of his marriage, or dig his heels in and risk being right but alone.


 Your statement assumes that regardless of the red flags, that compromise will save the marriage and prevent him being alone, which as many on this site have learned is often not the case.


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> Your statement assumes that regardless of the red flags, that compromise will save the marriage and prevent him being alone, which as many on this site have learned is often not the case.


Compromise simply means they find something they can both live with. That means she gets a say. I cannot imagine any marriage surviving without compromise.

I don't think the wife is perfect but neither is rnd_usr.


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> Compromise simply means they find something they can both live with. That means she gets a say. I cannot imagine any marriage surviving without compromise.


 Of course there should be compromise in a marriage where both parties get a say, that should be a given. But compromise on red flag issues does not guarantee that she will stay in the marriage, just like taking a stand on red flag issues does not guarantee the end of a marriage and the OP being alone. The OP's wife has strong feelings for the OP's friend to the point that she calls it a "curse" that she is greatly suffering with. Although some have criticized the OP for unilaterally cutting the friend out of their lives with the wife not having a say, this is a red flag issue were compromise is not always the best answer.



Wazza said:


> I don't think the wife is perfect but neither is rnd_usr.


 The OP is a pretty good husband to the point where the wife describes the OP in her journals as "the prefect husband". Although I agree with you that the OP is not perfect, you setting perfection as the standard that the OP is to be compared against is unfair because being perfect is un-achievable by any human.


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> Of course there should be compromise in a marriage where both parties get a say, that should be a given. But compromise on red flag issues does not guarantee that she will stay in the marriage, just like taking a stand on red flag issues does not guarantee the end of a marriage and the OP being alone. The OP's wife has strong feelings for the OP's friend to the point that she calls it a "curse" that she is greatly suffering with. Although some have criticized the OP for unilaterally cutting the friend out of their lives with the wife not having a say, this is a red flag issue were compromise is not always the best answer.
> 
> The OP is a pretty good husband to the point where the wife describes the OP in her journals as "the prefect husband". Although I agree with you that the OP is not perfect, you setting perfection as the standard that the OP is to be compared against is unfair because being perfect is un-achievable by any human.


I have no interest in a relative scoring of them. I don't have enough information. There are problems in the marriage, I am throwing up suggestions that give rnd_usr some possible ways to improve things.

Red flags I see include the wife's secretiveness and rnd_usr's unilateral overriding of his wife's wishes. It is possible the wife is secretive simply as a response to rnd_usr being more controlling than she likes. If that continues, she may be faces with a choice of ceding an unacceptable level of control or leaving him. Rnd_usr can prevent this by not putting her in this position. That's all I'm saying. It's an idea for him to consider.

I will pose one moral question though. What is the legal status of rnd_usr's decision to hack her journal?

Man charged after accessing wife's e-mail – USATODAY.com

This guy was potentially facing jail time for hacking his wife's email account. The charges were dropped due to a fifth amendment issue...the wife was also snooping in his computer information, and could therefore not be a witness in court without implicating herself.


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> Red flags I see include the wife's secretiveness and rnd_usr's unilateral overriding of his wife's wishes. It is possible the wife is secretive simply as a response to rnd_usr being more controlling than she likes. If that continues, she may be faces with a choice of ceding an unacceptable level of control or leaving him. Rnd_usr can prevent this by not putting her in this position.


 What wife wish did the OP override that you feel makes the OP controlling? 



Wazza said:


> I will pose one moral question though. What is the legal status of rnd_usr's decision to hack her journal?
> 
> Man charged after accessing wife's e-mail – USATODAY.com
> 
> This guy was potentially facing jail time for hacking his wife's email account. The charges were dropped due to a fifth amendment issue...the wife was also snooping in his computer information, and could therefore not be a witness in court without implicating herself.


 Since this law was passed in Michigan in 1979, this is the only time it has been used in this way. If they are able to throw out the charge, it will never be misused in this way again. Should it ever go to trial, I doubt that they could get all 12 jurors to convict, and it takes 100% of the jurors for a criminal conviction.


----------



## Wazza

I get the sense you see OP as the wronged victim of an unfaithful spouse. Maybe I am misreading you. Obviously, I don't see him in that light.



TRy said:


> What wife wish did the OP override that you feel makes the OP controlling?


Reread the post you responded to that started this whole discussion between us.



TRy said:


> Since this law was passed in Michigan in 1979, this is the only time it has been used in this way. If they are able to throw out the charge, it will never be misused in this way again. Should it ever go to trial, I doubt that they could get all 12 jurors to convict, and it takes 100% of the jurors for a criminal conviction.


Well, let's try some Connecticut-based legal discussion that broadens beyond just email and references US federal law.

Connecticut Snooping Spouse Series Part II â€“ Email Hacking, Cybersnooping & Reading Your Spouseâ€™s Emails Without Permission â€” Connecticut Criminal Lawyers Blog

Not really interested in a debate about the legalities, just making the point that rnd_usr is not squeaky-clean here. He indicates that his wife has not acted on her thoughts of lust, whereas he has shamelessly violated her legal rights, whether or not he is likely to face sanction for it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

TRy said:


> What wife wish did the OP override that you feel makes the OP controlling?
> 
> Since this law was passed in Michigan in 1979, this is the only time it has been used in this way. If they are able to throw out the charge, it will never be misused in this way again. Should it ever go to trial, I doubt that they could get all 12 jurors to convict, and it takes 100% of the jurors for a criminal conviction.


*All charges dropped against Rochester Hills man accused of reading wife's email without permission*


----------



## Wazza

Nucking Futs said:


> *All charges dropped against Rochester Hills man accused of reading wife's email without permission*


Sigh. This is why I didn't raise this earlier. Stupid me, I knew it would go this way. 

For completeness, from your link:



> During a court appearance Monday, the initial charge, which was obtained when Walker viewed his then-wife Clara Walker's email, was thrown out when it was learned that she had also been viewing his text messages without permission.


This was the fifth amendment issue I mentioned. The charges were not dropped because of his innocence, but because his wife could not testify without implicating herself.

Read the second link I posted which is a more general discussion of US law in this matter. What rnd_usr did is potentially illegal.

Others can debate that all they want. I don't care. 

Bottom line, rnd_usr, sorry, this is a bit personal, but have you considered that your wife may see you as controlling and overbearing, and that might be why she tries to keep secrets from you? Have you considered that she might be really p1ssed off when she figures out what you have been doing? Have you considered that it will damage the trust between you, and more so if you lie about it and she figures out you lied? It's hard to stay married to someone you think is not trustworthy.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wazza said:


> Sigh. This is why I didn't raise this earlier. Stupid me, I knew it would go this way.
> 
> For completeness, from your link:
> 
> 
> 
> This was the fifth amendment issue I mentioned. The charges were not dropped because of his innocence, but because his wife could not testify without implicating herself.
> 
> Read the second link I posted which is a more general discussion of US law in this matter. What rnd_usr did is potentially illegal.
> 
> Others can debate that all they want. I don't care.
> 
> Bottom line, rnd_usr, sorry, this is a bit personal, but have you considered that your wife may see you as controlling and overbearing, and that might be why she tries to keep secrets from you? Have you considered that she might be really p1ssed off when she figures out what you have been doing? Have you considered that it will damage the trust between you, and more so if you lie about it and she figures out you lied? It's hard to stay married to someone you think is not trustworthy.


Yeah, I wasn't talking to you. I was responding to the person I quoted. Guess what, that's why I quoted him.


----------



## Wazza

Nucking Futs said:


> Yeah, I wasn't talking to you. I was responding to the person I quoted. Guess what, that's why I quoted him.


Took your post as implying "All charges dropped therefore no legal impediment." Relevant to an element of the discussion I started. 

Feel free to get antsy over who responds to your posts on a public forum


----------



## Nucking Futs

Wazza said:


> Took your post as implying "All charges dropped therefore no legal impediment." Relevant to an element of the discussion I started.
> 
> Feel free to get antsy over who responds to your posts on a public forum


Sorry, it's been a long day. Merry Christmas!


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Sorry, it's been a long day. Merry Christmas!


:noel::noel::noel::noel:


----------



## Wazza

Nucking Futs said:


> Sorry, it's been a long day. Merry Christmas!


And to you and yours!


----------



## vms

If his wife has seen instances where a wife was left high and dry because the husband controlled all the money and then took off, she could very well be afraid that all men are capable of that. If the OP is a controlling person, that gives her even more reason to fear being left high and dry at some point. 

If she knows she knows she has no privacy from him, it is very likely to see him as unsafe. Controlling behavior and lack of privacy is absolutely signs of emotional abuse. My last marriage was like that. He may not of hit me, but his control over me - including playing Thought Police with me - was abuse nonetheless.


----------



## vms

I'm not saying the OP is Being abusive, I'm just saying from her POV, it could feel that way.


----------



## Mike6211

TRy said:


> ... The OP is a pretty good husband to the point where the wife describes the OP in her journals as "the prefect husband".


Yes, the "pREfect husband". Not the "pERfect husband".

Some message there, in the Freudian slip?


----------



## TRy

Wazza said:


> Not really interested in a debate about the legalities, just making the point that rnd_usr is not squeaky-clean here. He indicates that his wife has not acted on her thoughts of lust, whereas he has shamelessly violated her legal rights, whether or not he is likely to face sanction for it.


 The Michigan law in the case that you cited was written in 1979 before there was email, and was used for the first and only time in the laws history against a husband for reading a wife's email. Yet you cite this case as if this unproven interpretation is established law, when in fact this case was first filed in 2010 and no other has been filed using this law since then, which should tell you that this extreme interpretation is considered anything but established law. The fact that the case you cited was dropped because it turns out that the wife was doing similar things only adds to weakness of the logic used in charging the husband.

Your positions on this thread are as follows:
1) That a spouse that reads their spouse's emails because they have reason to believe that there is an affair, is violating the rights of the cheater.
2) That a spouse can hide money from their spouse in a secret bank account, and if the other spouse finds out and objects they are being controlling.
3) That a spouse can flirt with an opposite sex friend (OSF) to the point that they have strong romantic feelings for that OSF, and if the spouse finds out and tries to implements no contact (NC), they are being controlling.
4) That as long as a spouse does not act on their romantic feelings and have sex with their OSF, they are not doing anything wrong and the spouse should not object.

Based on the above positions, if a spouse has reason to believe that their spouse is in an emotional affair (EA), they should not snoop because that would be an invasion of the cheaters privacy, they should take no action if the cheater starts hiding assets, they have no right to demand NC with the EA partner, because that would be controlling, and as long as they do not have sex with their EA partner, they are doing nothing wrong. Sorry but we need to agree to disagree on the validity of your positions.


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> The Michigan law in the case that you cited was written in 1979 before there was email, and was used for the first and only time in the laws history against a husband for reading a wife's email. Yet you cite this case as if this unproven interpretation is established law, when in fact this case was first filed in 2010 and no other has been filed using this law since then, which should tell you that this extreme interpretation is considered anything but established law. The fact that the case you cited was dropped because it turns out that the wife was doing similar things only adds to weakness of the logic used in charging the husband.


Not going to debate the law, but I did not just cite Michigan. This is rnd_usr's profession.....he will know the legal ramifications better than either of us. 



TRy said:


> Your positions on this thread are as follows:


No, see below for detail, but bottom line, I am not saying the wife is blameless. I am seeking a more nuanced view of why things are happening.



TRy said:


> 1) That a spouse that reads their spouse's emails because they have reason to believe that there is an affair, is violating the rights of the cheater.


The hacking predates the attraction. We don't know why it started or why it continued, but I see no evidence that it was investigation of a possible affair. Rather rnd_usr seems to see it as a useful strategy for relationship building.



TRy said:


> 2) That a spouse can hide money from their spouse in a secret bank account, and if the other spouse finds out and objects they are being controlling.


The way it was discovered was controlling. The fact that she felt the need to hide it might point to another issue. I'm not defending the secrecy, but I am strongly suggesting it matters WHY the bank account was established.



TRy said:


> 3) That a spouse can flirt with an opposite sex friend (OSF) to the point that they have strong romantic feelings for that OSF, and if the spouse finds out and tries to implements no contact (NC), they are being controlling.


I am saying these sorts of feelings are normal. I haven't objected to the no contact strategy. I think it's reasonable, though I would implement it differently. 



TRy said:


> 4) That as long as a spouse does not act on their romantic feelings and have sex with their OSF, they are not doing anything wrong and the spouse should not object.


I have praised that the wife has not acted on her feelings and I have objected when people speculated on what she might have felt or written without information. It's definitely a problem that as a couple they can't talk about this. I just don't think that treating her as someone who has actually acted on her desires is the best strategy.


----------



## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> Look. The most important thing here is to save a marriage. Her crush is affecting our relationship negatively. Who knows how bad things can go from here?! The best thing to do is to play it safe and cut off the friend at least for a while. It can't hurt anyway.


:slap:


----------



## vellocet

rnd_usr said:


> The real problem is that I gave her the space to think of someone else. It is my fault and I will try to fix it by being a more attentive husband, have more open discussions, and upping my game. Having my friend out of the picture, IMO, will help. A selfish act on my behave. But he is my friend, not hers. In the end, I get to choose who to be friends with based on my convenience. There are no moral/social standards for this.
> 
> Why do you feel you have to cast your opinion on this?!


Because you posted it in a public forum.

Ok, then, just pick ugly friends from now on. Or, don't have any friends because there will be a possibility she will crush on them, then they'll have to go. So since there is always a possibility, best to have no friends at all.



> However, my plan is to fix the root of our issues


You are going to fix your wife? How?




rnd_usr said:


> It's much simpler than this. I'll just postpone every out going with him because I'm "busy". After a while, he'll stop calling and that is that.



Really? Be a man and tell it to him straight.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

rnd_usr said:


> Why do you feel you have to cast your opinion on this?!


This drives me nuts more than derails, misplaced anger, projections or petty bickering. 


rnd_usr said:


> *
> What do you guys think?*


This is why, you asked.

Do not post a story if you do no want opinions. Advice is going to vary wildly, go against what you believe and sometimes be hurtful .Yes, advice is only opinions based on trial and error. Sometimes, as evidenced by posters who haven't dealt with any form of infidelity, inexperienced opinions as well. Take what you need and don't get angry.


----------



## Thundarr

rnd_usr said:


> The real problem is that I gave her the space to think of someone else. It is my fault and I will try to fix it by being a more attentive husband, have more open discussions, and upping my game. Having my friend out of the picture, IMO, will help. A selfish act on my behave. But he is my friend, not hers. In the end, I get to choose who to be friends with based on my convenience. There are no moral/social standards for this.
> 
> Why do you feel you have to cast your opinion on this?!


So you plan to be more attentive, have open discussions, and up your game. Let me give some thoughts about that.

Open discussions: Great idea. Without good communication we have to be mind readers and that doesn't work out very well. In your case you decided to read her diary because you can't read her mind. I'll repeat it again that I think reading her diary is damaging to the relationship

Being attentive: Be careful because that's not always a good answer. It's can actually be a spouse repellent.

Upping your game: What defines up? In my opinion, having boundaries and expectations for yourself and also for her is a good step. Open communication is a good step. Realizing that damage control is not a long term solution is a good step (so stop reading that diary). Realizing that you can only control yourself and in doing so you will be more desired by her. Protecting her and your marriage and yourself. Sticking to boundaries is the way to do that and sometimes is means you have to shut her down when she's crosses a boundary and other times it means you have to shut yourself down and apologize. Just remember it's not about controlling her. It's about controlling yourself.


----------



## manfromlamancha

"You're always dancing down the street
With your suede blue eyes
And every new boy that you meet
He doesn't know the real surprise

(Here she comes again)
When she's dancing 'neath the starry sky
Oo, she'll make you flip
(Here she comes again)
When she's dancing 'neath the starry sky
I kinda like the way she dips
Well she's my best friend's girl
She's my best friend's girl-irl
But she used to be mine"


----------



## Divinely Favored

manfromlamancha said:


> "You're always dancing down the street
> With your suede blue eyes
> And every new boy that you meet
> He doesn't know the real surprise
> 
> (Here she comes again)
> When she's dancing 'neath the starry sky
> Oo, she'll make you flip
> (Here she comes again)
> When she's dancing 'neath the starry sky
> I kinda like the way she dips
> Well she's my best friend's girl
> She's my best friend's girl-irl
> But she used to be mine"


Your telling your age! Used to listen to the Cars as I was cruising in the 78 Pontiac Firebird.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

Divinely Favored said:


> Your telling your age! Used to listen to the Cars as I was cruising in the 78 Pontiac Firebird.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


78 Firebird? Now you're just making me angry DF. Basically the "Smoky and the Bandit" trans am is what you were cruising in. errrr.


----------



## WandaJ

Divinely Favored said:


> He already said she is an introvert and will not communicate with him. He is just trying to find the leaks below the water line to keep the ship afloat. Leaks she knows about but will not say.


I'm sorry but introverts are people too, and they have right to their privacy. If they do not communicate, it's a problem to work on, but not a justification of breaking their trust. My guess is if she now has learnt about him reading her journal like this, that would be the end of the marriage. 

Right now he is putting himself in the position of parent, and her a child. How is this mature relationship?


----------



## vellocet

WandaJ said:


> I'm sorry but introverts are people too, and they have right to their privacy. If they do not communicate, it's a problem to work on, but not a justification of breaking their trust.


Oh, he broke HER trust eh?  Good to know she has designs on another man, keeps it a secret, and that's not being untrustworthy.


----------



## vellocet

Wazza said:


> I will repeat. The wife is an adult. Bottom line - the marriage has to be agreeable to her. *A partnership*


I couldn't agree with you more. 

So about that money she is hiding from OP...:scratchhead:

About her wanting the friend instead of her partner, her husband.....:scratchhead:

Seems that her husband wants his partner/wife, but she is more interested in being secretive, hiding money, and developing crushes on a lot of men she actually has/had contact with.

You can try to tear him down all you want as the problem, but obviously he has right to be suspicious. Its odd that she has this problem of crushing on other men to the point she fantasizes about them all the time, writes a novel about it, hides money....but somehow this is being turned around on him for reading her journal when she continues to repeat this behavior. Amazing.

All these behaviors and red flags from her, and IMO emotional betrayal...........and he reads her journal to get answers and all of a sudden he is some sort of monster. Aye yi yi.


----------



## that.girl

vellocet said:


> Oh, he broke HER trust eh?  Good to know she has designs on another man, keeps it a secret, and that's not being untrustworthy.


He admits he first broke into the diary out of curiosity, not because he had concerns. The fact that he found something questionable there doesn't justify the action. It just means they have two separate issues to deal with. Her secrets, and his disregard for boundaries. 

They BOTH broke trust.


----------



## vellocet

that.girl said:


> He admits he first broke into the diary out of curiosity, not because he had concerns. The fact that he found something questionable there doesn't justify the action. It just means they have two separate issues to deal with. Her secrets, and his disregard for boundaries.
> 
> They BOTH broke trust.


First, he said that this has saved their marriage before, not sure what he means by that or why he won't clarify, but he obviously read it this time around because of something he found last time around.

No, it doesn't justify the action. However, if I'm in a relationship where I trust them completely, I'd have no need to snoop. He obviously, based on history, had a reason to not trust her.

Yes, he had a disregard for her boundaries. But she has secrets, hides money, and also has a disregard for boundaries.


So they both broke trust. So he could promise to never read her journal again. And if he does, what assurances does he get she isn't developing crushes on other men and being obsessed to the point of writing a book about them?


----------



## TRy

that.girl said:


> He admits he first broke into the diary out of curiosity, not because he had concerns. The fact that he found something questionable there doesn't justify the action. It just means they have two separate issues to deal with. Her secrets, and his disregard for boundaries.
> 
> They BOTH broke trust.


 What he calls curiosity is him subconsciously knowing deep down inside that something was wrong. Maybe not consciously, but spouses almost always know in their gut.


----------



## that.girl

vellocet said:


> First, he said that this has saved their marriage before, not sure what he means by that or why he won't clarify, but he obviously read it this time around because of something he found last time around.
> 
> No, it doesn't justify the action. However, if I'm in a relationship where I trust them completely, I'd have no need to snoop. He obviously, based on history, had a reason to not trust her.
> 
> Yes, he had a disregard for her boundaries. But she has secrets, hides money, and also has a disregard for boundaries.
> 
> 
> So they both broke trust. So he could promise to never read her journal again. And if he does, what assurances does he get she isn't developing crushes on other men and being obsessed to the point of writing a book about them?


But he "saved their marriage" by using info he gained by reading the diary in the first place. He had no suspicions when he first broke in.

I'm not saying is okay for her to fixate on the friend. But he doesn't get to justify his action with knowledge he didn't have when he did it.

The fact that he continues to read the journal and use the info to influence her behavior, without her knowledge, is creepy. She's his wife, not his puppet. 

This whole thread is creepy.


----------



## that.girl

rnd_usr said:


> I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that.


Sorry TRy, I'm not buying that he had suspicions.


----------



## vellocet

that.girl said:


> But he "saved their marriage" by using info he gained by reading the diary in the first place. He had no suspicions when he first broke in.
> 
> I'm not saying is okay for her to fixate on the friend. But he doesn't get to justify his action with knowledge he didn't have when he did it.
> 
> The fact that he continues to read the journal and use the info to influence her behavior, without her knowledge, is creepy. She's his wife, not his puppet.
> 
> This whole thread is creepy.


Well I agree with ya there.

He needs to bring the information to light, admit it was wrong to read the journal, but she needs to admit she has a problem and needs to work on crushing on her husband and not various other attainable men.


So not sure what he plans to do. Seems that he is putting this on the friend and not her. He says that he contends from the very beginning there should be no "thought police", yet he reads her journal.:scratchhead:


So looks like he is basically absolving her of her obsessions and thinking keeping desirable friends away is the answer.

It won't work, but if he thinks it will, that's on him. I see nothing getting fixed here, whether it be her obsession with other men, or his snooping.


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## vellocet

I would like to know what this means and rnd_usr, if you come back, I think this is key:



rnd_usr said:


> Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past


How so? What was it that happened?


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## that.girl

He doesn't need to put anything on her, as long as he knows exactly what's going on in her head. If he told her he knew about the crush, he would lose his creepy trump card, because there's only one place he could have gotten that info.


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## vellocet

that.girl said:


> He doesn't need to put anything on her, as long as he knows exactly what's going on in her head. If he told her he knew, he would lose his creepy trump card.


True, but what if he decided to drop his "creepy trump card", which it sounds as if he just may do.

What assurances will he have that she stops obsessing over other men? Like I said, looks like the only solution here based on what OP has written is to have no male friends. Well no straight attractive male friends anyway.


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## that.girl

Well, that's tricky. He can't ever know what she's thinking. None of us REALLY know who are spouses are thinking about. That's why we should judge them by their actions. It's one thing to think about another man, and another to actually flirt with them. It doesn't sound like she acted on her thoughts.

And i read his posts as meaning he wasn't going to tell her, which is why he had to cut off the friend.


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## TRy

that.girl said:


> Sorry TRy, I'm not buying that he had suspicions.


 Actually you posting that the OP stated "I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that." only confirms that something in his gut told him to look.


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## that.girl

TRy said:


> Actually you posting that the OP stated "I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that." only confirms that something in his gut told him to look.


Ok, I'll concede that it's possible he had a gut feeling. But when he says "it was probably out of curiosity," i read that as meaning it was probably out of curiosity, not as meaning that he definitely had suspicions and didn't know it. That's a little too much projection for my comfort.


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## Mr. Nail

Shortly after we married my wife started leaving her old diaries laying around the apartment. It was shortly after I had her proof read my journal entries. She was not upset when I mentioned things I learned about her from her diaries.

I know this is a foreign concept to many of you especially the younger set. But sometimes this is is exactly the way that an introvert communicates. 
MN


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## phillybeffandswiss

TRy said:


> Actually you posting that the OP stated "I really don't an answer to why I felt I needed to break into he computer in the first place. I really don't. It was probably out of curiosity because I felt she was a very private person, and I didn't like that." only confirms that something in his gut told him to look.


No, it confirms neither side of the argument.


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## Wolf1974

soccermom2three said:


> OP, maybe a less snooping and computer time and maybe more actions to keep your wife's attraction and needs met. Then she would have these crushes.


This didn't keep my x wife from having an affair. Sometimes snooping is the onky way to get at the truth


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## that.girl

Mr. Nail said:


> Shortly after we married my wife started leaving her old diaries laying around the apartment. It was shortly after I had her proof read my journal entries. She was not upset when I mentioned things I learned about her from her diaries.
> 
> I know this is a foreign concept to many of you especially the younger set. But sometimes this is is exactly the way that an introvert communicates.
> MN


Sometimes it is. But your wife left them in the open. OP had to hack his wife's computer to find her journal. I don't think he had any implied invitation to read it.


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## Wolf1974

vellocet said:


> I know she wasn't physically cheating, but this whole thread reminds me of this meme:



This. 

Defintely this

:iagree:


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## that.girl

She didn't get caught cheating. She got caught imagining herself cheating. 

Just for the sake of argument, would it be any different if she had imagined herself as single while sleeping with someone else? Then the only danger would be divorce, not infidelity.


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## that.girl

OP said he found a hidden bank account. To demonstrate he found it, he deposited a large sum of money. 

He did not say why his wife felt the need to hide money.


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## Thundarr

WandaJ said:


> I'm sorry but introverts are people too, and they have right to their privacy. If they do not communicate, it's a problem to work on, but not a justification of breaking their trust. My guess is if she now has learnt about him reading her journal like this, that would be the end of the marriage.
> 
> Right now he is putting himself in the position of parent, and her a child. How is this mature relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, he broke HER trust eh?  Good to know she has designs on another man, keeps it a secret, and that's not being untrustworthy.
Click to expand...

I think you guys are not arguing the same point exactly.

velocet and others have a point that if something seems off and then snooping uncovers an issue then snooping is a tool.

But... I agree with WandaJ about the parent/child relationship, specifically because his snooping is a reoccurring theme. If snooping has saved a marriage multiple times then it's just some co-dependent dynamic that OP and his wife need to fix.

No this is not normal snooping that uncovers and saves a marriage. This is a parent/child relationship.


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## that.girl

I get the impression that the wife does not trust the husband, and hides her thoughts and her money because of it.

I get the impression that the husband does not respect the wife's feelings, and sees her as an object he can control. 

The second point would explain the first.


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## that.girl

I suspect the reason she hides the money is the iceberg. It would explain whether she doesn't trust him, he shouldn't trust her, or both.


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## Thundarr

rnd_usr said:


> IMO. It's your responsibility as a husband to leave no space in her heart to fall in love with a coworker or a friend.
> 
> The logic is this. She choose me to get married to. We were deeply in love until a few months. WTF have I done/changed to lose her?!


Yes we have responsibilities to protect our relationships. I don't have a problem this sequence of events once. You feel her disconnect, snoop, find a problem, react to it. That part makes sense actually but it's not supposed to be a repeated way of dealing with the same issue. In your opening comment you said the following



> Before you judge me. Invading her privacy have saved our relationship several times in the past.


I take that to mean that you guys are in a pattern and that's no way to sustain the marriage IMO. The problem is that you have to fix the cycle rather than just the immediate issue. Or possibly you have to set boundaries and if she breaks them then decide the marriage is not going to work.


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## Wazza

vellocet said:


> I couldn't agree with you more.
> 
> So about that money she is hiding from OP...:scratchhead:
> 
> About her wanting the friend instead of her partner, her husband.....:scratchhead:
> 
> Seems that her husband wants his partner/wife, but she is more interested in being secretive, hiding money, and developing crushes on a lot of men she actually has/had contact with.
> 
> You can try to tear him down all you want as the problem, but obviously he has right to be suspicious. Its odd that she has this problem of crushing on other men to the point she fantasizes about them all the time, writes a novel about it, hides money....but somehow this is being turned around on him for reading her journal when she continues to repeat this behavior. Amazing.
> 
> All these behaviors and red flags from her, and IMO emotional betrayal...........and he reads her journal to get answers and all of a sudden he is some sort of monster. Aye yi yi.


The mistake you are making is to try and work out who is right and who is wrong. They are both wrong.

I'm not trying to tear anyone down or paint them as a monster. I am, however, trying to get rnd_usr to consider what may be her perspective. 

Keeping the bank account secret is wrong. His snooping in her privacy is wrong. They need to work on communication and trust. Both of them.


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## vellocet

that.girl said:


> She didn't get caught cheating. She got caught imagining herself cheating.


And writing her thoughts down out of obsession.

If I had read that from someone I was committed to, then I'd set them free to play out that fantasy.

I don't want someone that is obsessed with someone we know IRL and every fantasy she has, he is in it. No thanks. 

And some might consider it cheating, emotional betrayal. Everyone can find other people attractive, but OPs wife took it to a REALLY unhealthy level. People that think like her don't need to be married.


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## that.girl

vellocet said:


> And writing her thoughts down out of obsession.
> 
> If I had read that from someone I was committed to, then I'd set them free to play out that fantasy.
> 
> I don't want someone that is obsessed with someone we know IRL and every fantasy she has, he is in it. No thanks.
> 
> And some might consider it cheating, emotional betrayal. Everyone can find other people attractive, but OPs wife took it to a REALLY unhealthy level. People that think like her don't need to be married.


On a basic level, i agree with you. A fixation of that level is unhealthy. It's not wise to feed a crush on someone who is part of your life. 

But looking at the whole of OP's posts, i don't think the fantasy is the disease, it's a symptom of a much larger unhealthiness in the relationship. 

If she does not trust her husband, and suspects he does not trust and respect her, her thoughts will wander elsewhere. 

OP avoids many questions and leaves out a lot of info. We're not getting the whole story. I think if she posted a thread with her perspective, the responses would look very different.


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## notmyrealname4

vellocet said:


> And some might consider it cheating, emotional betrayal. Everyone can find other people attractive, but OPs wife took it to a REALLY unhealthy level. * People that think like her don't need to be married.*


I would agree that, ideally, people who have these fixations probably shouldn't be married. They should work out their emotional issues first.

I think the problem is, that this type of behavior won't really surface _until_ these folks are married, or in a committed relationship.

In other words, when the reality of intimacy sets in, they feel suffocated, threatened; and have to resort to this sort of emotional "blocking" to keep everyone away from them.

Focus on husband's best friend; whom you have no intention of having sex with. And it also conveniently sabotages any chance you have of truly being intimate with your husband.

She's miserable. In her little self-contained, safe, fantasy-world. With that secret money stashed away for "escape" purposes; should being married prove to be just too intense and scary.


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## CluelessWif

I had to swing back to say: I am so sick of people implying that she didn't cheat out of some kind of lack of opportunity.

News flash: women like sex. In fact we love it. Recent research has shown that women fantasize about sex as much as men.

My husband has this friend, my god he is beautiful. Like a Monet painting. He is quite the womanizer. I had a crush on him for a while. Did I do anything? No, because I am a human and able to resist my baser impulses, and I love my husband. It took me almost a year to work it out, but I did. He went on to be the best man in my wedding and the godfather for my son.

And I have a secret bank account. My husband knows I am stashing money, and he understands why. When I was four and my sister was a newborn my father walked out, leaving my mother with two young children, less than half of her previous income, no car, and a house in forclosure. No matter how much I love and trust my husband, my calling as a mother is greater than my obligations as a wife. I created them, and it is my Responcibility to make sure that they come first. Always.

And these people act like journaling is major secrecy. It's not, it is an expression of self. Would you be ok with your spouses digging around in your head? Because that is what a journal is.

OP, go to marriage councelling. Too many people here are spewing their misery on you. It can only do you harm.


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## ricky15100

CluelessWif said:


> I had to swing back to say: I am so sick of people implying that she didn't cheat out of some kind of lack of opportunity.
> 
> News flash: women like sex. In fact we love it. Recent research has shown that women fantasize about sex as much as men.
> 
> My husband has this friend, my god he is beautiful. Like a Monet painting. He is quite the womanizer. I had a crush on him for a while. Did I do anything? No, because I am a human and able to resist my baser impulses, and I love my husband. It took me almost a year to work it out, but I did. He went on to be the best man in my wedding and the godfather for my son.
> 
> And I have a secret bank account. My husband knows I am stashing money, and he understands why. When I was four and my sister was a newborn my father walked out, leaving my mother with two young children, less than half of her previous income, no car, and a house in forclosure. No matter how much I love and trust my husband, my calling as a mother is greater than my obligations as a wife. I created them, and it is my Responcibility to make sure that they come first. Always.
> 
> And these people act like journaling is major secrecy. It's not, it is an expression of self. Would you be ok with your spouses digging around in your head? Because that is what a journal is.
> 
> OP, go to marriage councelling. Too many people here are spewing their misery on you. It can only do you harm.


It's not a secret if your husband knows?


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## notmyrealname4

ricky15100 said:


> *It's not a secret if your husband knows?*


Bingo!!!!:iagree:


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## notmyrealname4

CluelessWif said:


> My husband has this friend, my god he is beautiful. Like a Monet painting. He is quite the womanizer. I had a crush on him for a while. Did I do anything? No, because I am a human and able to resist my baser impulses, and I love my husband. It took me almost a year to work it out, but I did. He went on to be the best man in my wedding and the godfather for my son.


That's great CluelessWif.

But was your attraction to Monet-guy mostly physical? Yes, that can happen to anyone. And you handled it appropriately.

Did you have an ongoing journal entry about him where you fantasized about what you would do with him?

See, I think there's a difference there; and it isn't healthy. It doesn't seem the same as having normal sexual attractions to other people now and again.


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## WandaJ

vellocet said:


> First, he said that this has saved their marriage before, not sure what he means by that or why he won't clarify, but he obviously read it this time around because of something he found last time around.


No, he hasn't saved the marriage. He is simply keeping up appearances of good marriage. She has crushes on other men, he is snooping on her. Unless they face their issues head on, this will either crumble on them one day, or they will keep living like this all their life pretending all is good.


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