# RA revisited



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

copying this from another thread. your thoughts?

what you guys are now saying is an RA.

there have been many people talking here about that in the past and the consensus is to take the high road and don't do it. and i would have agreed previously.

This thread, and others have made me re-think this position.

after being here a while, and seeing many BS's talk about the post Dday behavior of the WS...its readily apparent WS just simply don't get the magnitude of the pain and damage they casuse, even the remorseful ones.

i have had friends that went through infedility, and having never experienced it myself, was casual about the impact it had on them and could not relate to how deeply it affected them.

Then my Dday came...and suddenly i got it....how crushing, humiliating and utterly destructive it really is. to a WS, that has never been cheated on, there has to be an even higher level of disconnect as the selfishness that was in play for them to cheat in the first place, doesn't just go away.

The point is, only once you have that cold act heaped on you does anyone ever really come to know the pain and suffering that is created by it.

So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My take on revenge affairs is that while it may make your partner experience the pain of infidelity first hand, how does that help me heal? 1. I would feel terrible about inflicting pain on the person I love (despite having the same done to me) and 2. How does it take away the pain I'm experiencing? It doesn't make the initial betrayal disappear.

That's my take on it. Not looking to debate just sharing how I think I would feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

If you've been here a really long time, you would also know people say the opposite of love, is not anger and rage, but indifference. 

Wanting to hurt your WS is anger and rage. You hurt them to show them the pain they caused you. 
Trying to put a fire out with a bucket of gas is not going to help the situation. There is a good chance you'll be burned in the end. 

And there is the fact you are bringing someone else into your life for the distinct purpose of using them. 
Now, if they know what you're using them for, well, that's better. But it takes a truly calculating, and cold, individual, to take and use another person who has (probably) done nothing wrong to them, and use them like a tool, to hurt their WS, and then toss the AP out once they cease being useful. 


True hate, is indifference. 
For example, if you truly hate your WS, seeing them cry and beg, will do nothing to you. You truly hate them. It won't move your heart, it won't change your mind. 
You don't need to do anything to truly hurt them. They are hurting themselves, realizing, they are finally losing everything they had. 

If you want an example for indifference:
I am the product of an affair, and a recent college graduate. I have a job, and am in the process of looking for a place to move out. 
Once I move out, I will never speak to my mother again. 
True hate, is not wanting to hurt her (because trust me, I did). True hate, is just leaving her. I could care less what happens to her after I move out. 

I don't know if it is how you truly move on. But it is true indifference.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think a RA is a very bad idea but I understand the pain that might drive someone to do it.

Divorce is a better tool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife cheated on me and I started drinking too much.

I fell into a stupid RA.

And guess what?

The pain my wife's affair caused me was minor compared to the pain my own RA caused me.

It messed me up so much I ended on medication for about a month.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> Wanting to hurt your WS is anger and rage. You hurt them to show them the pain they caused you.
> Trying to put a fire out with a bucket of gas is not going to help the situation. There is a good chance you'll be burned in the end.


good analogy. did you know that sometimes fires are put out with explosives?

i understand how an RA is selfish from the perspective of hurting an innocent person and would not be for that. but how many times has it been seen here where the spouse of an AP offers sex to the BS? what about strip clubs or easy hook ups? there are plenty of ways to do this without hurting a bystander.

and while i agree divorce is almost always the best course to take.....i don't agree that this is necessarily the real medicine a WS needs or is enough.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Opportunities existed for me to have a RA against my XWW but I just couldn't use another woman as an object of vengeance against a woman whom I loved and cared so much for. That is not who I am.

Though not seeking to hurt my then wife for her betrayal, my leaving actually devastated her more than if had gone out and did the same. I also learned that it's no bull$h!t that living well is the best revenge.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

morituri said:


> Opportunities existed for me to have a RA against my XWW but *I just couldn't use another woman as an object of vengeance against a woman whom I loved and cared so much for. That is not who I am.*
> 
> Though not seeking to hurt my then wife for her betrayal, my leaving actually devastated her more than if had gone out and did the same. I also learned that it's no bull$h!t that living well is the best revenge.












Seriously, I was thinking the exact same thing earlier.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Better revenge imo is to live an awesome life, without the person that stabbed you in the back.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously, I was thinking the exact same thing earlier.


An RA is not worth risking the loss of ones soul. And like Matt, I would have had a hard time looking at myself in the mirror and not being repulsed by who I had become.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

It's hard to add anything meaningful as these responses have been 100% spot on. 

As for me, betraying someone just isn't in my DNA. I'd rather walk away and let them live with themselves, knowing what a POS they are.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

x598 said:


> So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like.


No it's not. It will only make things worse.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Can't disagree with any post on this thread.

But do I get that special tingle when I read about a betrayed spouse getting together with the other BS involved, when reconciliation ain't happening?

You bet I do.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GTdad said:


> Can't disagree with any post on this thread.
> 
> But do I get that special tingle when I read about a betrayed spouse getting together with the other BS involved, when reconciliation ain't happening?
> 
> You bet I do.


Ha! Word.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

The revenge affair equation doesn't equal things out. It just lowers your standards to the level of your WS. It plays out well "on paper" but in practicality the first WS will never feel the same pain as the first BS. They know what to expect having caused the damage once themselves so while there feelings may be hurt it will never compare.

You also run into the perspectives of different genders. While its a stereotype, men can have sex without an emotional connection, while women usually need that. The affairs are different. It just creates another layer of mess. 

If your trying to reconcile, then work at reconciling, causing more damage isn't going to help and if your divorcing whats the point other than inflicting pain.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R. 

That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing. 

Chew on that. Tell me if I'm fvcked in the head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R.
> 
> That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing.
> 
> ...


Sounds about right. A RA is only possible if the BS and WS have fully committed to R and then down the line, the BS does some playing on the side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair.


My opinion, almost for verbatim.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R.
> 
> That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing.
> 
> Chew on that. Tell me if I'm fvcked in the head.


Honestly, I can relate to either perspective. That said...

* While I won't necessarily tell a BS what he or she should and shouldn't do (w/ respect to an RA, anyway), I tend to council restraint so that (a) his or her perspective doesn't become even more complicated than it already is by the presence of yet another outside influence upon the marriage, (b) he/she is able to retain his/her integrity, and (c) he/she doesn't lose whatever moral high ground he/she has going forward.

* I know which of the two perspectives is right _for me_.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Yep, no RA if the BS has filed, is absolutely deadset on divorce and is getting his/her needs met by a new person.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

so why keep any RA hidden then, if the marriage vows are already broken? Why even STAY Married?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

one of the points i was making was much like the old saying there "is honor among thieves" .........what i mean by that is thieves dont steal from each other....yet a thief can be outraged if someone steals from them...and may make them re-think a life of crime.

I am not advocating for someone to intentionally hurt an innocent party. i am considering that WS will never really feel or understand the hurt and betrayal they casued unless they experience it for themselves. and if that hurt changes them to re-evaluate their ways maybe it a positive thing.

look how many stories there are about WS that just want to rug sweep, blame shift etc. because they dont feel the pain because it didnt happen to THEM.

in the recent post.....i would be at the strip clubs getting blown by three strippers at once and hand pics to my WW and see what her thoughts are on R then.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

But to sell your soul just for someone to experience the same pain you have now? That doesn't make sense?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R.
> 
> That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

another way to think of it that the sexual exclusvity vows are only meaninful if both sides adhere to them. The "contract is vacated" once one side or the other violates it. there may be a marriage right after Dday but I believe the BS should make clear that it is now an open one. whether the BS feels the need to seek out another sexual partner right away is up to them, but the "vow" should be considered to no longer exist.

I think every BS should be given that opportunity. they have an immediate reason to question the love and commitment of their current partner. so IMO they have an immediate right, perhaps even an immediate need to consider other partners out there. and every WS serious about R should acknowledge that and tolerate it, for a period at least.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Having said all of the above, my wife and I have hit the 26 mark of years together. So, we must be doing something right.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The best open marriage is called being single.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Having said all of the above, my wife and I have hit the 26 mark of years together. So, we must be doing something right.


Yeah...you poor bastard.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Having said all of the above, my wife and I have hit the 26 mark of years together. So, we must be doing something right.


Matt, you clearly don't know the types of comments that you invite when you say stuff like this...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R.
> 
> That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing.
> 
> ...


No bandido you are not loco de la cabeza. But I would question the quality of woman who would engage in a RA with a BH. For all we know, she and her like minded sisters (single or married), may be on the CDC's top, most wanted viral vectors list.

Show me a woman with integrity and self respect NOT to engage in a PA with a BH, and I'll show you a woman who is not only most likely to be free of STDs/STIs but most likely a great catch in the sack as well.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You have a point Mori. I'm not saying a RA is the correct thing to do in any given situation, only that I'm not going to pound on the BH/BW who engages in one. First I'm not qualified to judge them. Second, they may be so demoralized by their WS affair that having a RA may be the only way they can regain their self esteem. Having a person tell you how great you are in bed, or how beautiful and desirable you are can do wonders for an annihilated ego.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My ex college girlfriend had a friend who married young, right out of college. Hubby was a good guy to grab a beer with. His wife was banging a coworker within a year or two of being married. Using my apartment for their trysts, I found out afterwards. Anyway after they separated, hubby and the OMW saw each other for a few months. Both couples were separated at that point and their marriages over. But my girlfriend friend was PISSED they were seeing each other. "She's crazy and only seeing her to get back at me!" 

But I could see how the hubby and the OMW Had that common bond and helped each other through it. They never dated, it receded into friendship, but are still friends as far as I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pauslon (Nov 27, 2013)

After my Dday, I contemplated a RA, and honestly I still do. It's part of the vengeance that I am still working on for my own soul. 

In fact, six months after Dday - I was given the opportunity, but I turned the other way. Down in South Beach for work at a ****tail party a woman cornered me, we talked business/some personal and I said I was leaving. She walked with me, as we exited the building I told her good night, shook her hand and walked 180 degrees the other way from her hotel. She was married as well. I just thought about her poor husband and could not do that to HIM (not thinking of my WW).....strange part this triggered me like crazy that night b/c my WW was in my place six months prior, except she went back with the OM to his room. I still fantasize about going back to the room with that woman, not for me, but for the vengeance.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> Both couples were separated at that point and their marriages over. But my girlfriend friend was PISSED they were seeing each other. "She's crazy and only seeing her to get back at me!"


this is kind of what i am talking about. do i understand this correctly the pissed woman was the AP?

if so, doesnt it seem odd a cheater would be offended by it?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I agree with you bandido that once a spouse has betrayed the other, that the betrayer has no moral leg to stand on with regards to what happens from that point forward. But just like with an affair, an RA seldom lives to its reputation and often ends up causing more problems than it resolves. And in gambling terms, both are sucker bets.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

x598 said:


> this is kind of what i am talking about. do i understand this correctly the pissed woman was the AP?
> 
> if so, doesnt it seem odd a cheater would be offended by it?


Yes, after both couples separated, and wife continued dating her affair partner, their respective spouses began hooking up. Wife used to complain to my gf that he was only sleeping with her to get back at them.

They didn't know each other prior to the affair. They met each other originally to compare notes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> My ex college girlfriend had a friend who married young, right out of college. Hubby was a good guy to grab a beer with. His wife was banging a coworker within a year or two of being married. Using my apartment for their trysts, I found out afterwards. Anyway after they separated, hubby and the OMW saw each other for a few months. Both couples were separated at that point and their marriages over. But my girlfriend friend was PISSED they were seeing each other. "She's crazy and only seeing her to get back at me!"
> 
> But I could see how the hubby and the OMW Had that common bond and helped each other through it. They never dated, it receded into friendship, but are still friends as far as I know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is reminiscent of how my XWW reacted 2 years after our divorce was finalized (over 5 years ago) and we accidentally bumped into each other one day in the street. I reluctantly accepted her invitation to a coffee shop right next to where we were. After I finished my coffee and said my goodbyes, she slips me a piece of paper with a phone number on it. She told me to call her anytime. I gave it back to her telling her that I was already involved with another woman. The look on her face was almost like I had sucker punched her. I quickly left before any drama would ensue. Later at home I receive a call from a mutual friend of ours that my XWW went to her place and was totally distraught telling her that I had another woman in my life. Our friend said to her "What did you expect? Hello! the two of you have been divorced for two years".

It seems that our XWS do not blink an eye with regards to their affairs but once we become free of them, many go ape sh!t if they find that we have become involved with someone else. Lord give me strength.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If you engage in an RA you have to first consider whether it is going to cause you to lose the moral high ground, especially in relation to your kids and extended family. They may see your RA as much of a betrayal as your WS's was, and now what little faith your kids has in the two of you as parents has been toasted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Mori I hope your ex wife has cleaned up her act, dealt with her issues and stopped dating drug dealers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

x598 said:


> So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like.


I'm with you, I really think the RA has value, both in spreading the pain to the WS and helping out the BS's self esteem.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Mori I hope your ex wife has cleaned up her act, dealt with her issues and stopped dating drug dealers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bandido, from what I heard from our mutual friend, the therapy she received related to her childhood sexual abuse, right after her brief stay at the psychiatric treatment center, has worked wonders for her and she is now a happier person. I'm happy for her. I bear her no ill will and only wish the best for her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

RA may seem like a good thing to do but it is just a knee jerk reaction that is entirely based on emotions (understandable). However, it just creates complications and gives you absolutely no right to go after the WS (You are no better) so it will not get rid of the pain. May cause the WS some pain and maybe not, they may just want to rug sweep and call it even. No-one wins.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> having a RA may be the only way they can regain their self esteem. Having a person tell you how great you are in bed, or how beautiful and desirable you are can do wonders for an annihilated ego.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yet, they'd be doing exactly the same thing as their WS - engaging in external validation to make themselves feel better. So now you have two unhealthy people.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

The Middleman said:


> I'm with you, I really think the RA has value, both in spreading the pain to the WS and helping out the BS's self esteem.


so to save a marriage the WS should have the same pain as the BS? And going against your values as a BS to have a RA HELPS the BS's self esteem? If the BS is healthy, having a RA should actually destroy their self-esteem, not help it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think a RA would serve mostly to make the BS feel better. The WS is already disconnected, so may not even feel any pain from the BS betraying them. Hopes that it will teach them something or make them experience similar pain is wishful thinking, but of course this may sometimes be the outcome.

IMO, divorce is the better response, retaining the moral high ground. In some cases reconciliation may be worth pursuing, in which case a RA is probably counterproductive. Find another way to restore some balance, if you must.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

This is a post from another forum:




BH37 said:


> *Revenge affair, what it did to/for me*
> 
> New here, just happened apon this sight. Have participated in other infidelity sights.
> 
> ...


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

BH37 said:


> As for the "why would you stay with her" questions, believe me I have asked that question many times. I'm a good looking, level headed guy, and I hold a good paying job. I can most certainly find someone else who would treat me better. However, our current financial situation was strained at best when I purchased a new home, it really would have destroyed us both, and set me back to a post high school financial situation, which wasn't appealing at all to me. So having been through this, and having an extensive knowledge of what I was in store for in the whole recovering from an affair, I knew I could survive that again, not easy, but do-able.
> 
> I felt like I was stuck, and the revenge affair was really the only feasible option I could come up with that would do two things; Show her I can find a replacement, and show me I am capable of finding another woman. It was a way of empowering myself.
> 
> ...


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I have adopted the mindset that once a WS cheats, the marriage covenant is broken. That's not biblical, just my opinion. There is no marriage, therefore a RA is not really an affair. That is, unless, the WS is truly repentant and both parties fully agree to R.
> 
> That's is not what is happening here. The BS is moving towards D. The marriage is all but dead and suspended. All he is doing by divorcing her legally is to put the dissolution that already exist into writing.
> 
> ...


I am in complete agreement. When I found out my xWW was having an A, I started hooking up with an old flame. I felt no guilt, no remorse, and no sadness about it. Like you, my mindset was that the marriage contract had already been broken, and therefore null and void. I was free and clear to conduct myself however I wished. And I did just that.

And it was very nice to my ego knowing I was banging a much hotter woman than my cheating wife at the time. That sure helped in the confidence department.

I think if one had to ask others of it's ok for them to start an RA, it's probably not a good idea. It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself. I needed no convincing; my mindset was, "You cheated? Then so can I. Deal with it." No moral struggle, no ethical debates, nothing of the sort. Cut and dry, black and white.

If divorce has already been filed, then I don't see an issue.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

wow L.S that was an enlightening read.

and this highlights what i have been pondering. the fact that cheaters, who are so self entitled and utterly detached from reality to have an affair to begin with....do it in such a fashion that they don't think they will get caught or even if they did...they don't think their spouse would leave, and/or possibly don't give any thought to the consequences to their actions to begin with.

then once it all blows up, most WS's as seen here over and over again, accept no responsibility, blame shift, gas light TT and so on. I believe a big part of it comes from them being in the affair and it was FUN and exciting......meaning they never truly feel or understand the pain and suffering they inflicted on the BS. sure, they SAY they do.....but we have all seen here the actions that don't follow the words.

I am not "advocating" for RA's.I am simply wondering about human mentality where people dont value something until it happens to them. look at drunk driving for example. im sure there are many here who maybe have had a drink or two and driven home countless times and never thought twice about it. or given a pass to someone who had a few too many....but it's not your problem so just looked the other way and minded your own business. and then all of a sudden a drunk kills your spouse or child and it takes on a whole new meaning.


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## Dread Pirate Roberts (May 22, 2012)

GTdad said:


> Can't disagree with any post on this thread.
> 
> But do I get that special tingle when I read about a betrayed spouse getting together with the other BS involved, when reconciliation ain't happening?
> 
> You bet I do.


That's exactly what happened with my roommate. He was good friends - or so he thought - with his boss, and he and his live in girlfriend did everything with the boss and his wife. Then the boss started an affair with his girlfriend. My friend knew something was up, wanted out, and moved in with me. 

Couple of weeks later, the boss moved out. His wife contacted my friend to tell him what was going on, and they started a 3 month affair. Then at work, they moved the boss to a different position and gave my friend his old job! So the joke around the office was that my friend had the boss' job, wife, and dog all at the same time!

So, work was interesting for a while. Because my friend, boss, ex live in girlfriend and I all work together.

DPR


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Matt, you clearly don't know the types of comments that you invite when you say stuff like this...


Gus, I just don't give a darn!

I have a lovely floatation ring for safe floating in Denial.:rofl:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

toolforgrowth said:


> I am in complete agreement. When I found out my xWW was having an A, I started hooking up with an old flame. I felt no guilt, no remorse, and no sadness about it. Like you, my mindset was that the marriage contract had already been broken, and therefore null and void. I was free and clear to conduct myself however I wished. And I did just that.
> 
> And it was very nice to my ego knowing I was banging a much hotter woman than my cheating wife at the time. That sure helped in the confidence department.
> 
> ...


What was your WW's reaction to the RA?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I know someone who when he found out his wife was screwing some guy, he decided to get revenge. His plan was to call her on the phone right when the girl he was doing was having a very vocal climax so she could hear it and be hurt.

But what happened is he realized she wasn't worth it, he didn't make the call. Then during the time I knew him he screwed about a dozen women. as long as she wouldn't fess up and stop, he escalated.

Once she realized he was doing so many women she was hurt beyond words and stopped her affair.

He did not stop and then they divorced.

His rage at her drove him to lower his standards.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I don't believe in revenge affairs, nor place blame on a BS for having one, but for me it's not the way to handle the situation. My WW is very scared that I will have a revenge affair, possibly fall in love with someone else, which makes me wonder if she really knows who I am. It's not about taking the high road, or stooping to the WS level, it's about you, or in this case me. It's not who I am, I'm not better then anyone else here, I just have beliefs that I can't throw away as they are who I am. I'm not better then my WW, we both have faults, we both make bad decisions we then attempt to make amends for. 

A revenge affair to me (and this is my opinion) is only adding to the problems presented to you. I'm having a difficult enough of a time trying to deal with my WW affair and reconciliation. I don't need more challenges now, I need less. I also don't see how I can start to lead a double life when I'm struggling to live now. Marriage was more to me then coming home every night to the same person, it's about creating a family, loving people more then you thought possible. I was a failure of a husband, I see my faults, I'm working diligently to become a better person. My wife was my first, I waited as intimacy is so much more to me. I placed a huge value on intimacy as in giving my entire self to someone. You just don't become intimate with just anyone, you connect fully, when you do intimacy is absolutely amazing, I don't really know of any better feeling.

That's what was lost by me, that special connection you experience with someone special. That one person you love more then anyone in the world, and you give yourself fully to them. I've said numerous times I'm simply astounded my WW was able to just give herself away to someone who didn't love her at all. I can't go and be intimate with someone I don't feel that special bond with, that someone who I look at and become all crazy for. It's not me, who I am, or what I want to be. I have morals, pride, and too much self respect to just have sex with someone because they cheated on me. 

I don't feel a revenge affair could heal me, make me happy, or just take away my pain. It would only confuse me and cause me more pain as I would be so out of character. Now her affair has destroyed me I don't want to destroy her. I don't want to cause her more pain then she feels. That would be vindictive and cruel of me to treat her in a similar fashion. Not because I'm better but because she is the mother of our children, she is my wife, she is not someone I wish to inflict pain upon. 

I take pride in who I am, I take pride in my job, I take pride in my treatment of my wife since d-day, I don't belittle her, shame her, guilt her, or physically or emotionally abuse. It still won't fix or help me in regards to easing my pain. I'm beginning to find that this pain will be with me the rest of my life, I've accepted that, but I will not add to that pain by becoming someone that I can't be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Drifting On....you are in reconciliation. I am against RAs when the WS is remorseful and fighting to save the marriage. I think the RAs we are referring to are the ones where you gave a non-remorseful wayward who has not stopped their affair, who is trying to sweep their appalling behavior under the rug, or who had there affair and is completely unremorseful and lacking in empathy. This is not the case with your marriage. In your case I would proffer an echoing "hell no!!!" to you having an RA. 

Go read LuvMyJava's thread in the private section. His POS WW was openly and brazenly stepping out on him to go fvck her AP. During his ordeal he met Eurogal and began a physical relationship with her. I am convinced that, had she not come along when she did, LMJ would have swallowed a bullet or been carted away in a straightjacket. Good or bad, moral or not, she saved him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not sure if it's considered an RA but Tears' husband took a pretty effective course in evening the score and driving the point home that wandering will not be tolerated and that he has options.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Drifting On....you are in reconciliation. I am against RAs when the WS is remorseful and fighting to save the marriage. I think the RAs we are referring to are the ones where you gave a non-remorseful wayward who has not stopped their affair, who is trying to sweep their appalling behavior under the rug, or who had there affair and is completely unremorseful and lacking in empathy. This is not the case with your marriage. In your case I would proffer an echoing "hell no!!!" to you having an RA.
> 
> Go read LuvMyJava's thread in the private section. His POS WW was openly and brazenly stepping out on him to go fvck her AP. During his ordeal he met Eurogal and began a physical relationship with her. I am convinced that, had she not come along when she did, LMJ would have swallowed a bullet or been carted away in a straightjacket. Good or bad, moral or not, she saved him.


I wouldn't define LMJ's relationship w/ Eurogal (at any point) as an affair, let alone a _revenge_ affair. I mean... sure, he's still married, and not to her, so TECHNICALLY I suppose it could be considered an affair. But let's be real -- he didn't initiate a relationship w/ her (or _any_ woman, for that matter) until is was painfully obvious TO ALL PARTIES that his marriage was dead and over.

To me an RA would be defined as an affair that a BS pursues -- or, at the very least, participates in -- for the primary (though not necessarily _sole_) purpose of revenge against his or her WS, and whether or not he or she (the BS) intends to stay in the marriage.

Slippery slope? Maybe. But wear footwear designed for the climb and you'll be fine.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm not sure if it's considered an RA but Tears' husband took a pretty effective course in evening the score and driving the point home that wandering will not be tolerated and that he has options.


But in his case he had an authentically remorseful WW. In his instance the As were indeed anger driven. He had to reclaim his manhood and Tears very wisely stepped aside and let him process that need at her expense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> toolforgrowth said:
> 
> 
> > I am in complete agreement. When I found out my xWW was having an A, I started hooking up with an old flame. I felt no guilt, no remorse, and no sadness about it. Like you, my mindset was that the marriage contract had already been broken, and therefore null and void. I was free and clear to conduct myself however I wished. And I did just that.
> ...


At first she became more brazen about her own A. That suited me fine, I was completely done with the marriage. Then she started messaging my xAP/GF on Facebook from an alias account, trying to make it seem like we still had something going. My xAP put her in her place. It was glorious.

Once her A was over and mine was continuing, she really began to hum a different tune. That's when I got the "I'm ashamed of my actions" and "I'm sorry" blah blah blah. She tried to manipulate me into spending time with her and our daughter together. I made it clear in no uncertain terms that that would never happen.

She's since remarried. I'm very glad, her new H is a good guy and treats my daughter very well. Things could have ended up a lot worse!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm not sure if it's considered an RA but Tears' husband took a pretty effective course in evening the score and driving the point home that wandering will not be tolerated and that he has options.


Eh... my take on their sitch is that he decided early on that they were divorcing (and they did) and that he was moving on. Over time, though, she sort of won him back. Not sure if they ever remarried, though.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

toolforgrowth said:


> At first she became more brazen about her own A. That suited me fine, I was completely done with the marriage. Then she started messaging my xAP/GF on Facebook from an alias account, trying to make it seem like we still had something going. My xAP put her in her place. It was glorious.
> 
> Once her A was over and mine was continuing, she really began to hum a different tune. That's when I got the "I'm ashamed of my actions" and "I'm sorry" blah blah blah. She tried to manipulate me into spending time with her and our daughter together. I made it clear in no uncertain terms that that would never happen.
> 
> She's since remarried. I'm very glad, her new H is a good guy and treats my daughter very well. Things could have ended up a lot worse!


So your RA probably just affirmed in her mind that she was right about you: you were a d!ck and she was perfectly entitled to cheat on you. Then when her AP threw her aside she thought "uh oh...maybe I made a mistake here..." 

Idiot. 

I feel bad for her new husband. I hope you had a man to man talk with him about her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

katies said:


> so to save a marriage the WS should have the same pain as the BS? And going against your values as a BS to have a RA HELPS the BS's self esteem? If the BS is healthy, having a RA should actually destroy their self-esteem, not help it.


I disagree, strongly


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

x598 said:


> So I am now wondering if an RA is a useful and more productive tool to shock a WS spouse into the reality of what they have done, end the fog, and show them exactly what they have created and maybe then be humbled, empathetic and even more so stop the cheating cycle in their present or future relationships as they have experienced what it feels like.


Well a revenge affair in a vacuum is probably the perfect payback. The problem is revenge affairs aren't in a vacuum. They are usually with someone we know. A real person who deserves more than to be used as a weapon. A real person likely with their own problems that doesn't need this piled on. Maybe a person who's weak but would have otherwise not cheated on their partner.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

The Middleman said:


> I disagree, strongly


I guess I should go out and have an affair then. You know, better to teach someone a lesson than live the straight and narrow. No thank you, I'll live with dignity and my head held high and count THAT as my self-esteem, not getting revenge. How very... immature.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

katies said:


> I guess I should go out and have an affair then. You know, better to teach someone a lesson than live the straight and narrow. No thank you, I'll live with dignity and my head held high and count THAT as my self-esteem, not getting revenge. How very... immature.


I agree and disagree at the same time. It is convenient to hold the high moral ground, however, I could envision situations where one could have a RA, it be not an attachment, and used to shock the WS back to some sense of reality and give the BS some real improved sense of self worth if needed. However, to get those stars to align is very low probability.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

The thing is it's usually the initial BS who loved more. They had a rose tinted lens of their spouse and believed that they can't be that much of a coward and selfish to cheat (plus some WS gaslight the hell out of them) so when dday comes around it seems that everything they build crumbled to pieces.

With RA, it'll work only IF the fWS actually love the now BS turned WS. It will only be painful if fWS care and has complete trust of the BS. If the fWS doesn't love or care and stay in the marriage only because scared of divorce, well now fWS got a perfect ground for it.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> used to shock the WS back to some sense of reality and give the BS some real improved sense of self worth if needed.


But to use myself to shock someone else into reality? If they can't get it by themselves and I have to betray my own values to do it? That is codependent, to say the very least. To betray myself to get someone else to understand how much their betrayal hurt me? I'm worth more than that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

katies said:


> I guess I should go out and have an affair then. You know, better to teach someone a lesson than live the straight and narrow. No thank you, I'll live with dignity and my head held high and count THAT as my self-esteem, not getting revenge. How very... immature.





katies said:


> But to use myself to shock someone else into reality? If they can't get it by themselves and I have to betray my own values to do it? That is codependent, to say the very least. To betray myself to get someone else to understand how much their betrayal hurt me? I'm worth more than that.


/salute


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

naiveonedave said:


> I agree and disagree at the same time. It is convenient to hold the high moral ground, however, I could envision situations where one could have a RA, it be not an attachment, and used to shock the WS back to some sense of reality and give the BS some real improved sense of self worth if needed. However, to get those stars to align is very low probability.


I find this to be somewhat...

..._naive_.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Revenge affairs is a nuclear option and in most cases amplify's the damage already done by a factor 10. Personally the best and smartest move one could make would be to cut the dead weight lose and move on with your life rather than lowering yourself into the gutter.


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