# Disgruntled Dude



## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

Mr. Dad: Do I really have to go to childbirth classes?


After reading this article in today's paper, I began thinking about gender inequality and how us guys end up coming in last for the most important of family life milestones. Marriage is all about the bride- the groom, an accessory. Childbrth and parenting is focused on the mother- the father, barely an afterthought. In this age of "equality" The male still gets the shaft when it comes to child placement and divorce. Women seem to always get the benefit of the doubt. Society places us in the back seat and then chastises us for not taking the wheel. And we accept it begrudgingly and grumble in our online forums. I guess I would be less bitter about it knowing that the husband/father could receive some semblence of acknowledgement or even RESOURCES to help us through trying times. For example, in the last couple of years I have seen 3 different counselors alone and with my wife. I have YET to have ANY of them acknowledge the male post-partum condition despite the fact that the AMA has assigned it "official clinical" status. If it has been deemed scientifically viable, then where are the support groups?? I can find NONE anywhere near my area. Where are all the informational pamphlets in your local library or hospital??

It just makes me confused and irritated...


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

are you disgruntled because you think you have male post partum depression or are you mad at the many double standards in life?


----------



## maggot brain (Nov 28, 2010)

bingofuel said:


> I have YET to have ANY of them acknowledge the male post-partum condition despite the fact that the AMA has assigned it "official clinical" status. If it has been deemed scientifically viable, then where are the support groups?? I can find NONE anywhere near my area.


Probably because any man who would claim this status likely lacks the initiative to start a group.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

bingofuel said:


> Mr. Dad: Do I really have to go to childbirth classes?
> 
> 
> After reading this article in today's paper, I began thinking about gender inequality and how us guys end up coming in last for the most important of family life milestones. Marriage is all about the bride- the groom, an accessory. Childbrth and parenting is focused on the mother- the father, barely an afterthought. In this age of "equality" The male still gets the shaft when it comes to child placement and divorce. Women seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.


This change is too slow for sure, but it is coming in some places. According to my mother, the lawyer, there are many liberal places in which this simply is not the case anymore. The more liberal the geography, the more equality in family law.



> Society places us in the back seat and then chastises us for not taking the wheel. And we accept it begrudgingly and grumble in our online forums. I guess I would be less bitter about it knowing that the husband/father could receive some semblence of acknowledgement or even RESOURCES to help us through trying times.


Well when things were unequal in the other direction, women banned together to MAKE resources. How about becoming an activist for men's rights and finding like minded men to form a movement?


Or you could whine uselessly on forums! 



> It just makes me confused and irritated...


The medical profession is what it is. Buyer beware.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, women's situations improved because women demanded it, working together and supporting one another. I bet you would find support for PPD even in a support group for women, although maybe the issues aren't the same. Of course the problem you are having is that many men are likely too embarrassed to admit they have the problem--and in hiding their struggle, they perpetuate the stereo type tyat PPD is only a problem for women. 

Try a women's group--really. You want the support and women are good at giving it, esp. since no men's group seems available. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.

FYI: most men don't ask for 50/50 custody/placement because they "have to work." Do they think women don't work?????


----------



## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

Clarification:

I am speaking of PROFESSIONALLY MODERATED groups- Had I my PhD in psychology, I would start my own group. I don't believe your average layperson is equipped to deal with CLINICAL DEPRESSION- especially in a group environment! Would you consider a "sewing circle" a proper arena for women to seek help for PPD??
If you look at the STATISTICS 1 in 4 new fathers have this type of depression. That's ALOT! And while it has just recently been acknowledged by the AMA, it has been around for a long time. There are few (or no)places we can go to have this issue addressed. When I tried to seek help from regular therapy, maggot brain, none of the THERAPISTS I saw had even heared of PPND! I found myself having to explain it. And after I did, some doubted the validity of my claims! Do you feel a PATIENT should have to educate the doctor about their ailments?? As a dealership mechanic, I am required (by the manufacturer) to go to several courses every month to stay up to date on new technology so I can do my job well. One would think the medical profession would have like standards... I feel I have the right to be disgruntled. The article just made me realize that there are many other instances where men are just left to the buzzards, so to speak.


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

bingofuel said:


> Mr. Dad: Do I really have to go to childbirth classes?
> 
> 
> After reading this article in today's paper, I began thinking about gender inequality and how us guys end up coming in last for the most important of family life milestones. Marriage is all about the bride- the groom, an accessory. Childbrth and parenting is focused on the mother- the father, barely an afterthought. In this age of "equality" The male still gets the shaft when it comes to child placement and divorce. Women seem to always get the benefit of the doubt. Society places us in the back seat and then chastises us for not taking the wheel. And we accept it begrudgingly and grumble in our online forums. I guess I would be less bitter about it knowing that the husband/father could receive some semblence of acknowledgement or even RESOURCES to help us through trying times. For example, in the last couple of years I have seen 3 different counselors alone and with my wife. I have YET to have ANY of them acknowledge the male post-partum condition despite the fact that the AMA has assigned it "official clinical" status. If it has been deemed scientifically viable, then where are the support groups?? I can find NONE anywhere near my area. Where are all the informational pamphlets in your local library or hospital??
> ...


I'm sorry. I recently went through child birth and it is about me first. Men are support but what do you expect when one is actively delivering the baby and the other holds a leg or wipes sweat or rubs a back? Equal billing? PPD. It's about hormones. Sure both parents adjust to lack of sleep and new baby - but major aspect of PPD is chemical ie. Hormones.
And with custody - well my H doesn't know how to give advil or antibiotics. He has never given kids a bath. He has never been at needles and he doesn't take them out alone (without me). If we split - he gets equal billing when he's scared of them?
My case doesn't represent all. There are some hands on dads out there. I don't believe in equality. Some things you can't compare like I'll never understand a kick to the nuts. Why can't people just be respected for their contribution rather than crying 'Not Fair'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ManDup (Apr 22, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> I'm sorry. I recently went through child birth and it is about me first. Men are support but what do you expect when one is actively delivering the baby and the other holds a leg or wipes sweat or rubs a back? Equal billing? PPD. It's about hormones. Sure both parents adjust to lack of sleep and new baby - but major aspect of PPD is chemical ie. Hormones.
> And with custody - well my H doesn't know how to give advil or antibiotics. He has never given kids a bath. He has never been at needles and he doesn't take them out alone (without me). If we split - he gets equal billing when he's scared of them?
> My case doesn't represent all. There are some hands on dads out there. I don't believe in equality. Some things you can't compare like I'll never understand a kick to the nuts. Why can't people just be respected for their contribution rather than crying 'Not Fair'.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not to turn this in to gender wars or anything, but I do think the man unfairly gets the shaft in custody cases, as do the children as a result. Look at it this way: the mother/child bond is strong. Very strong. It doesn't need reinforcing by the state; if mothers have visitation they will make it happen. The father/child bond, not strong. Tentative. Easily broken, as happens every day. It's not the dads' fault; the cards are stacked against him. Why not stack some in his favor with regard to custody? Why not default to the man having custody unless he's injurious to the child? Why not give the dad some say in how some of the child support is spent, so at least he can buy his kid clothes and such out of it? Yes I'm serious.

WRT PPD, I was hospitalized after my son was born, and to me it was totally unexpected. No where did any information about this type of thing appear - lamaz, ob visits, government pamphlets, tv newspaper media, even the web (ok that wasn't invented yet, but still).


----------



## elo123 (May 3, 2011)

Maybe you can look into a mens group if they dont have resources for post-partum depression in men. I am an expectant father who has been in counseling with an MFT. My therapist recommended mens groups where men in general can come together and be supports for one another. 

I know its hard to be a man this day and age and point out the inequalities. However you can do that from a womens side and make a strong case too. My wife was a gender studies major...so I know. Either way, its good to get peer support from 'like' people. I havent joined myself yet but I know supports are out there. If you have trouble looking them up, send me a message and I will try to give some web resources.


----------



## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

I am only crying foul because my wife still blames me for having it when I did. Wouldn't a man be considered nescient and cruel, if he constantly blamed the mother for having PPD and beat her about the head with it?? She is still using it as a weapon of guilt even though it was 2 years ago. I graced her for a long time so she could have her feelings and come to terms with them, yet I still receive regular emotional beatings. I am the hands on kind of father. I watch my daughter 2 days out of the week by myself since she was born. At first I was damn clueless and pretty much useless when it came to the newborn, but it gradually got to a "normal" point. Now my daughter and I have a great relationship and my wife is the only one not willing to move on-- one way or another.

I have checked EVERYWHERE and there are no groups within even slightly reasonable driving distance. The only reason why I am where I am is because of remote web resources like this one and believe me, I have benefited from them. I think meeting with someone in person, though provides an additional level of support that is needed in this type of situation.


----------



## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

I hear you bingofuel and I feel for men in the position of not being able to easily find support in dealing with PPND when needed.

From what I can gather PPND is still a reasonably "new" recognised disorder (on the timescale of humans having babies)...so it's understandable that there is not a lot to be offered in way of support....yet. It's unfortunate that getting professionals on board and building organised support networks takes so long....but it's simply how things work. 

It's probably of no real interest to you but up until about 30 years ago there were many women struggling with PND who were in the same boat of not being able to easily find the support they needed. And look where things are now - doctors on board and support groups just about everywhere. So there is hope for the future.

The thing I believe that will keep things moving more slowly with building PPND support, lay within the beast itself....the male mentality of not accepting that there is something wrong and seeking help. Not putting men down in saying that....it's a well known fact that (most) men don't seek medical help as often or early as they should. 

The cause needs men like yourself to become involved....to stand up and get your voice heard....tell your story to anyone who will listen; alert your community health care centre; your doctor; write to newspapers....magazines....politicians and online forums....find other men in similar situations and get them to do the same...and probably one of the best things you can do is to get women on board - because for some reason women seem to be more able to band together to get something done (in terms of coming out of the ashes and becoming globally recognised).

I've just done a bit of net research and it seems that quite a few of the women's PPD support groups are open to men as well and some have mens groups that meet separately on a weekly basis. Also any depression support group will have at least some kind of helpful information. So help is already out there....you just need to dig for it.


----------



## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

As a woman, I agree that there need to be way more resources for new dads! Look at any pregnancy site and all it talks about is breastfeeding, finding mommy groups, or coping with new mom stress. The only time the husband is ever mentioned is when you need him to do more chores, stop bugging you for sex, or buy you chocolate to make you feel better.

I had previously thought that PPD in women was both psychological and physiological, but only psychological in men. However, it turns out that men experience hormonal changes during their wives' pregnancies too! They likely pick up on hormonal cues from their wives and newborns that can create physiological changes as well. Men whose wives are experiencing PPD are much more likely to develop it themselves. Other psychological causes include stresses about finances, a stressed/depressed wife, a sick baby, or general sleep deprivation. 

Men should NOT be blamed for feeling depressed, nor should they shoulder the entire burden for providing emotionally for their wives. Solid support networks are needed for everyone in the family! I think that will allow both new moms and new dads to feel relaxed and confident in their roles. Too many dads are completely clueless and stressed when it comes to dealing with their babies--if they had more resources to teach them, that would help them be more involved dads and bond better with their kids.


----------



## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Other comments:

The statistics actually show only 1/10 new dads experience symptoms, from what I found with a preliminary google search. 

You don't need a PhD to reach out to other people or start an advocacy group! It might be more difficult for men than women, but it can be a huge help just to get out and meet some people who understand what you're going through.


----------



## bingofuel (Jan 27, 2011)

Apologies. The Stat is

"You’re Not Alone – Not By A Long Shot 
Every day, over 1,000 new dads in the United States become depressed. And according to some studies, that number is as high as 2,700. That’s 1 in 10 to as many as 1 in 4 new dads who have postpartum depression. 

Thank you for all your kind words, now only if the one who matters could see it... I don't want my daughter growing up in a broken home....

P.S. Someone mentioned in another forum that whoever files for divorce suffers a "black mark" legally if there are no overt causes for doing so. Can anyone substantiate this claim? If it is true, then I think there may be an "agenda" at work here....


----------

