# Wife Kissed a dude 2 years ago, waited to tell me because she feared her friend wiuld first



## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

My wife has recently had a falling out with one of her friends. Her friend and her(my wife) have not spoken much over the past few years, but our kids are very close, so I see her friends ex and their kids every weekend. Part of the falling out my wife had with her friend, included her friend, well ex-f4iend telling every person my wife knew every bad thing she has done or said to or about anyone in the past 5 years. I thought it was pretty low of her friend to do, but that's what happened. My wife sat me down last night and began crying, telling me, "there is something I have to tell you" anyway, my wife proceeded to tell me that she, along with her friend went to Nobu in Newport Beach for her birthday and met a few guys. These guys, my wife and her friend got a taxi together to go to a local club. While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys. She said afterwards she was devastated and called me to come pick them up from the club. Anyway, I recall this night vividly and they were pretty smashed when I went to pick them up. So I guess, what's your advice? I am kind of numb to the situation because I never expected this from my wife as I have never once messed around and I have the ability, I am a 36 year old man, very well off financially and work out for about two hours every morning, very physically fit and have a pretty good personality. I am pretty humiliated by the situation, we have been married for 13 years, and together for 16 years. I have two kids 7 and 12, and besides this incident never have had an issue with my wife, as far as I know. She only told me, two years later out of fear that herex-friend would call and tell me as she moves down her list of people to inform of my wife's indescritions. I feel her friend is being insane, because the friend (f 41 years old) left her now ex-husband to travel to Spain with a 24 year old soccer coach she met at her son's soccer practice, so what's the saying those that lice in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. But I always took pride in being faithful to my wife, and I am pretty bummed out about the situation.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

so your wife told you she kissed a man?

you do know that in cheater speak, that means she slept with him?

they ONLY divulge the bare minimum percent of the truth when they are forced to. dig into this some more, and do not believe a word she says.

If this ex-friend DOES call you, pump her for all the details...like where she went to "kiss" this guy they met? Back to his hotel room?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

This is really easy ….. call the friend and ask !!


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You know there is more to your WW’s story, right? Her friend didn’t end their friendship over that. As for your wife kissing the OM, that is very likely a trickle truth. I bet my next mortgage payment that very like there was at the very least a BJ and more likely full sex. 

A long term friendship that includes the husband and kids is not going to be wrecked over a kiss. You better get in touch with the ex friend to get the full story.


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> so your wife told you she kissed a man?
> 
> you do know that in cheater speak, that means she slept with him?
> 
> ...


Well, it's not really possible for them to have gone to a hotel room. I picked them up myself from the club and I am not so sure the ex-friend would speak to me about it, although I could try. I sure hope she didn't sleep with him, but you never know and I do agree that she is probably not divulging all the information.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

the above suggestions might seem harsh.
but if you go back and read old posts here from guys exactly in your position, they start off innocently sounding, and a few pages into the thread the OP finds evidence she has been with multiple men, and is instead asking advice on how to divorce.
so the statistics are against you, man.

but go thru it all, DO NOT CONFRONT HER, as she will hide everything and lie to you.
intead look yourself. look at records from the phone bills...who is she calling/texting. can you get into her phone, any old texts there, any stored odd phone numbers? any saved pictures?

maybe look around for a burner phone too? cheaters often have a 2nd phone, maybe hidden in their car, to communicate on secretly.

look on here for "the standard evidence collecting" thread. it is laid out there how to search. I hope you are right and she is innocent, but even a simple kiss in a bar is pretty serious....


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> You know there is more to your WW’s story, right? Her friend didn’t end their friendship over that. As for your wife kissing the OM, that is very likely a trickle truth. I bet my next mortgage payment that very like there was at the very least a BJ and more likely full sex.
> 
> A long term friendship that includes the husband and kids is not going to be wrecked over a kiss. You better get in touch with the ex friend to get the full story.


 I should clarify, their friendship is in shambles because my wife was discussing things with her friends ex-husband, while he was visiting at our house. One of their kids reported back to the friend that she was talking about her and that is why she has it out for my wife. Her friend is absolute trash, and she is trying to get back at my wife. Their friendship didn't end over the kiss, it was something recent. In fact I bet the friend would encourage her to do it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> Well, it's not really possible for them to have gone to a hotel room. I picked them up myself from the club and I am not so sure the ex-friend would speak to me about it, although I could try. I sure hope she didn't sleep with him, but you never know and I do agree that she is probably not divulging all the information.


In clubs, a lot of sex happens in the bathroom or even on the dance floor itself.
The only way you will know for sure is to set up a lie detector test and tell her that is what you're going to do and tell her that her ability to pass the lie detector will be a determinate as to whether you stay married to her or not. Often, at that point, she may confess to what really went down. Although, she might wait until you get to the parking lot of the investigator in a false hope that you will give her the benefit of the doubt.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Talk to the ex friend, get her version, and don’t assume she’s lying. Trust but verify.

sadly, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a man getting the full truth the first time cheating is discussed. The chances of it only being a kiss……. Well, Lets just say they are low. 

I think if you do talk to the ex friend, you should bring a shot or two of whiskey with you. You’re likely to need a drink. I think you’re gonna learn more than you wanted to know about your wife.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You sound like someone that has their act together so obviously you are smart. Don’t lash out and confront and demand. Keep cool and investigate behind the scenes. Let the water lay still for a bit while she gets her guard down.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> I should clarify, their friendship is in shambles because my wife was discussing things with her friends ex-husband, while he was visiting at our house. One of their kids reported back to the friend that she was talking about her and that is why she has it out for my wife. Her friend is absolute trash, and she is trying to get back at my wife. Their friendship didn't end over the kiss, it was something recent. In fact I bet the friend would encourage her to do it.


This doesn't sound good either. Breakups between BFF's because a husband and wife are "talking". Highly suspect.
Talk to the friend.
There's a tsunami here.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This doesn't sound good either. Breakups between BFF's because a husband and wife are "talking". Highly suspect.
> Talk to the friend.
> There's a tsunami here.


I agree. It’s likely she banged her friend’s husband and that’s what the kid saw.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Angusm1985 said:


> I should clarify, their friendship is in shambles because my wife was discussing things with her friends ex-husband, while he was visiting at our house. One of their kids reported back to the friend that she was talking about her and that is why she has it out for my wife. Her friend is absolute trash, and she is trying to get back at my wife. Their friendship didn't end over the kiss, it was something recent. In fact I bet the friend would encourage her to do it.


Don’t you think it fishy that your wife would be such a shi... friend to go bad mouth her to her ex? Were you there when this bad mouthing happened? Does your wife spend any time with her ex? 

It would be in your best interest to talk to the ex friend? Even if you don’t like her, she can be a valuable source to get all the details on that event 2 years ago. Your wife may have only kissed OM at the club, but could they have hooked up a day or 2 later? 

Do you have her old phone? Maybe you can recover some old text or social media communication between her and OM or between her and her friends. Could be a fellow cheating cheerleader or just an ear that she used to assuage her guilt. It’s rare that things like that are kept to themselves.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Prepare yourself because it's probably going to be much worse. Cheaters lie and they are very good at it.

Remember birds of a feather. There was a reason your wife was good friends with a person like that. There are plenty of stories of Husbands who have no idea who it is they married. Women who act one way around them, but are wild when with their friends. The kind that even the friends wouldn't want to be married to and roll their eyes at behind their back.

Talk to the friend find out the truth. At the very least there was probably a lot of build up to this event.

Here is what you know, your wife set up a double date with her friend at least once, shared a physical intimacy and was content never to tell you about it. You should be very weary about believing a word she says. You don't even know it was the first time. Even the story of her and her friends brake up doesn't sound truthful. Why would the friend do this. There is more information that you don't know yet that explains everything. 

The best advice you can get is to stop being her husband at this moment, don't protect her which is probably your natural instinct - DO NOT BE NICE. DO NOT BE EMOTIONAL. BE COLD AND HARD AS STEEL. At the very least you should put the fear of GOD in her. I would go get a hotel room and don't tell her where. Just tell her you won't be home tonight and you are not sure when you will be. That first of all you are having trouble believing her story but if she has a chance she had better have told you the whole truth or do it right now, because you intend to get it. Point out even if her story was true this was not just some random she kissed at a bar, it seems like it was an organized double date. Find out how long she knew this guy, and what lead up to it. I would then leave either way call the friend. Don't respond to her for a few days. Let her suffer and fear. That may be the only thing that causes her to straighten up.

When you get back if you decide to continue tell her she is going to have to figure out how to fix the broken trust. Just to continue the discussion, assuming she is telling the truth (which I would doubt), it's still cheating because of all the things I wrote above and now you have doubts. What is she going to do about it. Let her figure it out. Don't do it for her, and see if she is really committed. DO NOT get marriage counseling as it wasn't the marriage that caused this, her poor character did. The counselor will probably try to blame the marriage and you. Essentially she has to fix herself while you are recovering, then you will decide if you are going to move forward.

When you do find out remember you are 36, lots of time left to find better.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

This is the part where we all call you a sucker if you really believe that all they did was “just kiss”.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think you'll get to the bottom of it but my bet is that all she did was kiss the guy and then immediately regret it and call you to come get her.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think you'll get to the bottom of it but my bet is that all she did was kiss the guy and then immediately regret it and call you to come get her.


That is what I hope as well.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Yep, talk to everyone involved, her confession was the tip of an iceberg.... guaranteed.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I would tell her something like, "I am giving you one chance to come clean about anything and everything and we will work through whatever that is, but I find out anything later it will be automatic divorce.... and I'll be looking into this closely."

Then drop a hint that a polygraph might be needed.....

See how she responds.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Polygraph!


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant ***** who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ****, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Good luck. I hope you’re right.
Honestly, what you said about your wife abd integrity being important is diametrically opposed to what she does and who she is friends with.
You wouldn’t have ever been told about this had her friend not gone berserk. And lifelong friends don’t usually go that way from “trash talking about her”.

I’m worried for you. Especially since what you heard from most here is not what you wanted to hear.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Maybe you should talk to him first when she isn't around and see if their stories match up.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant *** who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ****, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.


Let her sleep in the guest bedroom. Tell her she can use the alone time to think about how her stupid selfish decisions are destroying your family.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

You're so good at reading people ("a human lie detector") and yet you were clueless what your wife just confessed to you TWO YEARS later for crying out loud.

And no, your wife hasn't "always" been truthful to you or she wouldn't have kept this a secret for two years and would she have even told you this if she wasn't Fearful of this ex friend telling you because they had a falling out??

No falling out she does NOT tell you Jack ****!!

You need to take your wife off the pedalstal you've put her on. "Integrity is very important to her"???

If this were true she would have told you TWO YEARS AGO and wouldn't have tried to get away with it and again the only reason she's telling you now is she knows this ex friend will be telling you.

"Integrity"?? I don't know what your definition of Integrity is but this is FAR from it. She did NOT do the "right" thing because she "has morals" and it was the "right" thing to do. She told you because she was backed into a corner and was forced to!! End of story.

You may want to reconsider a poly because to be honest you have no idea what your wife has been up to and she sure isn't going to confess anything to you unless she has to or is forced to.

You don't want to have her take a poly because more than likely it's out of fear because if you do find out there's more you'll have to deal with something you'd rather not have to. Totally understand this but until you have the truth this is NOT going away. You may be OK for a few weeks and even months but trust me this will rear it's head again and again and again until you have the courage to find out the truth.

You may find out it was indeed just a kiss but until you confront this and are hell bent on finding the truth it's going to be HUGE black cloud hovering over your marriage and relationship with your wife.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Angusm1985 said:


> I should clarify, their friendship is in shambles because my wife was discussing things with her friends ex-husband, while he was visiting at our house. One of their kids reported back to the friend that she was talking about her and that is why she has it out for my wife. Her friend is absolute trash, and she is trying to get back at my wife. Their friendship didn't end over the kiss, it was something recent. In fact I bet the friend would encourage her to do it.


Ok this changes things… what’s the story with your wife and that husband and why were they talking? 

You’re actually stating that their marriage ended because of YOUR wife! This is huge! So don’t label the ex-friend as crazy if she’s perhaps hinting that your wife was a bit too close to her husband. 

I’d look into this story more than the kissing incident. Your wife is trying to bond with you because the ex-friend might have another story, so she’s painting the ex-friend as crazy and so far you believe that. 

But if she’s openly saying their marriage perhaps ended because of your wife… that’s a real worry. Look into this. 

The ex friend may well be nuts and trying to drag everyone down. So I would not contact her directly, at all, ever. So who knows what she will say in her anger.

Start from the outside. There must be other friends or family that would know more about why that marriage ended and what role your wife played. 

Your wife may very well be innocent too. Tough one. If the ex-friend met the soccer player before and tried to blame your wife 🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s a hard one. The ex friend may well have been cheating the whole marriage and kept your wife along for the ride for the eventual crack up in order to have some dirt on her just in case. 

This is why I just don’t mix with women who aren’t safe in that way. I was once friends with a woman who would eventually cheat, and it was clear she was encouraging a bit of devious behaviour, but the very second I had 100% proof of what she was doing, I said goodbye fast. Most of the women in the group also kept their distance. So it’s possible the ex friend used your wife as a drinking buddy, tried to convince her she needed a bit of fun from her boring life and it led to ONE accident. Good luck, but do stay right away from the ex friend


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

sideways said:


> You're so good at reading people ("a human lie detector") and yet you were clueless what your wife just confessed to you TWO YEARS later for crying out loud.
> 
> And no, your wife hasn't "always" been truthful to you or she wouldn't have kept this a secret for two years and would she have even told you this if she wasn't Fearful of this ex friend telling you because they had a falling out??
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right. I am working it out in my head as this is all still pretty fresh, just found out last night. Thank you for the reality check.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Angusm1985 said:


> You are absolutely right. I am working it out in my head as this is all still pretty fresh, just found out last night. Thank you for the reality check.


Last night? Damn.
Brother take your time and let your head get wrapped around all this. It’s traumatic to anyone. You have to get to a point where your emotions don’t cloud your judgement.
It takes a looooong time. Don’t do anything that has long lasting consequences.
Keep posting. As you gain information, you can be better informed in your decisions.
You only have the tip of the iceberg. That’s certain.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

I think it is likely that in this instance it was only a kiss. The real concern is she hid it from you and only told you when she thought someone else might spill the beans.
This is not a true confession and does not indicate true remorse, only regret for getting caught out. It puts a big dent in the integrity angle.
In your shoes, my biggest concern would be what else she may be hiding.


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> Ok this changes things… what’s the story with your wife and that husband and why were they talking?
> 
> You’re actually stating that their marriage ended because of YOUR wife! This is huge! So don’t label the ex-friend as crazy if she’s perhaps hinting that your wife was a bit too close to her husband.
> 
> ...


No, completely wring let me clarify. My wife's friend ended her marriage against mine and my wife's recommendations. The woman (wifes friend) was bored with her life and said she deserved better, and she started to date a 24 year old soccer coach from her son's soccer program. Her now ex husband is a great guy, but a total ***** and never stood up for himself and she walked all over him. That woman ended up going to Spain to chase after the 23 year old soccer coach and ruined her own marriage and her kids lives.l, at least from my perspective. Her now ex husband brings his kids around on the weekends to my home, and he and I usually hang out. I was there when he and my wife were talking and the subject was that he was still paying for all of his ex wife's bulls, even though he was not obligated to do so. When he asked for our advice my wife told him that he should tell his ex, my wife's friend she needed to get a job. That woman's kids heard this conversation and told the woman and now she is mad at my wife for having the conversation with her ex. She was angry because she said we should not be discussing these things with her ex, but he is a pretty close friend. That woman is a s crazy as they come, calls herself a goddess and says that she deserves the world, spends 300 per month on a gym membership and goes out partying every weekend while her ex-husband pays all bills and watches their kids. The issue arose in conversation when he, her ex husband informed us that she took a job working g from 2pm to 11pm weeknights, meaning the ex-husband would have to take the kids to school and leave work early every day to pick them up. My wife advised him that he would probably get fired if he had to leave work early and that it was not smart for the woman to take a job working from 2 to 11pm, so that woman started a scorched earth campaign against my wife, essentially trying to ruin all of her friendships and everything. Hope that makes sense


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> You are absolutely right. I am working it out in my head as this is all still pretty fresh, just found out last night. Thank you for the reality check.


You may be normally a very good reader of people, but your relationship with your wife is clouding your judgement.
You are going to have to go hardcore on objective evidence if you are going to get to the bottom of it. 
Nobody wants to know that their spouse was unfaithful or how unfaithful they were.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I agree with @Luckylucky that something is VERY fishy with your wife and her ex friend’s ex husband. My spidey senses are going off when you mentioned your wife bad mouthing her ex friend to her husband. That’s something that a woman does when she wants a guy for herself.

I also strongly agree with @sokillme that it sounds like your wife had a double date that supposedly ended with a kiss. Serious trickle truth there. I strongly recommend that you read his post again. I’ve been on TAM for years and he’s one of the posters that usually gets right.

And finally, @sideways is right about your internal lie detector being way off. Your wife lied through omission about the OM, yet you didn’t pick up anything. Also, your wife doesn’t have a high integrity. She most likely had a planned double date that included a make out session and only confessed because she feared being exposed by her ex friend. 

Ask yourself, why confess now? What has recently transpired that caused her to think she was going to be exposed now? You really have to dig deep. Get her phone and check her text and social media. Something happened recently. Was she in contact with this guy again and she’s trying to throw you off by saying it was from 2 years ago?

Do not let her tears throw you off your game. You have a long history and a raised a beautiful family together. Everyone on TAM knows the importance of that but do not rug sweep this. It will eat you up for years. Doesn’t mean you have to D, but quickly believing her is a mistake. At the very least she made out with some strange dude at a club. That alone should tell you that she is not the woman you thought she was. START DIGGING.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

That’s a clear story.. thank you. 

Your wife probably had a one night drunk f-up kiss. The fact that she kept it hidden would be more concern. It’s not like she was nailing the guy against the bar. She freaked out and called you in to come get her. That’s likely the whole story in my mind. How you handle that in your marriage is for you to figure out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Get a PI. Since you know the exact day they can investigate at the club. Security footage is probably no good but they can interview people.

If you’re at Nobu in Newport you have means so you can probably get ex NBPD or maybe even HBPD or OCSD who is now working as a PI and might be able to throw weight if needed. With pictures of her (maybe even from that night) you might even be able to track the guy down.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Toxic friend but she may have info.

Take your time to soak all this in, it's overwhelming at first. We see this often.

Have you seen your wife's texts with the friend, or did she delete them? I can guarantee the threat of telling you about this should be in there somewhere.

If your wife has more to hide, then you have more to research.

At this point, your wife isn't sorry she did it, she is sorry she got caught. If she felt guilt or remorse, she wouldn't have walked around with a smile on her face the last two years.

There is a chance she only did what she claimed, but that happens about 1% of the time around here, hence the reason were saying what we are saying.

Keep posting, stay calm, and allow yourself room to change your mind about anything and everything, multiple times.

The "TAM 2x4" reality checks will sometimes be tough to hear, but do actually hear them, and then decide if they valid or not.

You are in a tough position and we all understand that and are here to help.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

What you need is a detailed written timeline of that evening from your wife. Do not accept your wife's claim that she doesn't remember or she was too drunk to remember. It should include in detail how they met; how much time did the guy spend with your wife. Did they dance together? Closely? Who initiated the kissing? Was it a short kiss or was it long and over an extended period of time? Was it at a table, outside, or some other place such as in his car? Was there any petting? Was there more intense sexual activity? Describe it in detail. Your wife should provide you with this information so that you can make an informed decision on what to forgive and forget. I know a part of you does not want to hear the details, but it will most likely wear on your psyche as the years go by. Have the written timetable in your possession before you ask the ex-girlfriend her recollection of the evening. 

Since you do not want to consider a polygraph, your tools are quite limited in investigating what happened. There might be emails or texts between your wife and the ex-friend that might provide you with some insight as to what exactly transpired but I don't know how you could recover them unless they are recent. The ex-friend might have copies. Ask her if she has any in her possession that she would be willing to share. Check your wife's phone and other electronic devices for any such evidence.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Your wife was close friends with this woman. Does this mean anything to you?

They shared what they shared until they broke up, they supported each other, they kept their secrets..

get your wife off the pedestal. on the same level as her friend. Then start acting rationally.

to your wife

"Have you ever cheated on me? (ea/pa)

You must answer honestly because I will ask you to verify it on the polygraph. I will set this up as soon as possible. If you've had relationships and you're having trouble saying it, make timelines. give it to me in writing."

Suffice it to say.

If you want to know the facts, this is what you have to do.

Also, ask if your friend is having an affair with her husband.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

The reason I think that there is more to it than a kiss at a bar one night, is that could be written off as just the crazy ex friend trying to retaliate... Your wife could easily deny that claim, just as she has for the last two years. I think the threat is there that more happened, likely at a different time, and the ex friend knows about it. Also likely your wife knows more dirt on the ex friend that she hasn't told you.

I would also be grilling the ex friend's former husband.... he may also know more (or be involved )


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Would a PI be worthwhile?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> No, completely wring let me clarify. My wife's friend ended her marriage against mine and my wife's recommendations. The woman (wifes friend) was bored with her life and said she deserved better, and she started to date a 24 year old soccer coach from her son's soccer program. Her now ex husband is a great guy, but a total *** and never stood up for himself and she walked all over him. That woman ended up going to Spain to chase after the 23 year old soccer coach and ruined her own marriage and her kids lives.l, at least from my perspective. Her now ex husband brings his kids around on the weekends to my home, and he and I usually hang out. I was there when he and my wife were talking and the subject was that he was still paying for all of his ex wife's bulls, even though he was not obligated to do so. When he asked for our advice my wife told him that he should tell his ex, my wife's friend she needed to get a job. That woman's kids heard this conversation and told the woman and now she is mad at my wife for having the conversation with her ex. She was angry because she said we should not be discussing these things with her ex, but he is a pretty close friend. That woman is a s crazy as they come, calls herself a goddess and says that she deserves the world, spends 300 per month on a gym membership and goes out partying every weekend while her ex-husband pays all bills and watches their kids. The issue arose in conversation when he, her ex husband informed us that she took a job working g from 2pm to 11pm weeknights, meaning the ex-husband would have to take the kids to school and leave work early every day to pick them up. My wife advised him that he would probably get fired if he had to leave work early and that it was not smart for the woman to take a job working from 2 to 11pm, so that woman started a scorched earth campaign against my wife, essentially trying to ruin all of her friendships and everything. Hope that makes sense


This does change things a bit for me. This sounds _much_ better than the first way you told it.

I’m still in the camp saying a kiss is never just a kiss and you need to followup with the xBFF.

But of course, if she’s that crazy then she may torpedo your wife with anything. Maybe check with xHubby too, for corrabation purposes if nothing else. Hard to say if he knows anything but he might. If he’s as beta as you say then you would know if he’s lying.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Angusm1985 said:


> No, completely wring let me clarify. My wife's friend ended her marriage against mine and my wife's recommendations. The woman (wifes friend) was bored with her life and said she deserved better, and she started to date a 24 year old soccer coach from her son's soccer program. Her now ex husband is a great guy, but a total *** and never stood up for himself and she walked all over him. That woman ended up going to Spain to chase after the 23 year old soccer coach and ruined her own marriage and her kids lives.l, at least from my perspective. Her now ex husband brings his kids around on the weekends to my home, and he and I usually hang out. I was there when he and my wife were talking and the subject was that he was still paying for all of his ex wife's bulls, even though he was not obligated to do so. When he asked for our advice my wife told him that he should tell his ex, my wife's friend she needed to get a job. That woman's kids heard this conversation and told the woman and now she is mad at my wife for having the conversation with her ex. She was angry because she said we should not be discussing these things with her ex, but he is a pretty close friend. That woman is a s crazy as they come, calls herself a goddess and says that she deserves the world, spends 300 per month on a gym membership and goes out partying every weekend while her ex-husband pays all bills and watches their kids. The issue arose in conversation when he, her ex husband informed us that she took a job working g from 2pm to 11pm weeknights, meaning the ex-husband would have to take the kids to school and leave work early every day to pick them up. My wife advised him that he would probably get fired if he had to leave work early and that it was not smart for the woman to take a job working from 2 to 11pm, so that woman started a scorched earth campaign against my wife, essentially trying to ruin all of her friendships and everything. Hope that makes sense


That clarifies a few things. But I’m going to give you another woman’s perspective, another poster also mentioned it above. Your wife shouldn’t be sticking up for him and badmouthing the ex-friend. Yes the two are bonding. There are a couple of women over the years that have married my husband’s friends and been through messy divorces, and my husband has his mates over to talk. On the inside, sure the women were rough. But I do not sit there with the boys and give much more than a ‘sorry you’re dealing with this, it sounds awful!’. 

That poster is right! A woman who badmouths another woman to a husband wants him, plain and simple. It doesn’t matter how bad the ex friend is, remember that she and your wife were once friends, and she shouldn’t be his bonding-shoulder-to-cry-on-we-are-both-victims-of-her-we-understand-eachother buddy.

Now very seriously - don’t hid under this cover of ‘our kids are close’. This is messy and high drama stuff and your kids can find new friends! You don’t need her husband coming around and you don’t really need to be supporting him. Don’t feel bad about this, there are many, many people he can lean on for support. And your kids should be mixing with lots of other kids anyway, don’t feel bad for them either. They’ll miss them a little bit, but frankly this sounds so enmeshed that their poison will seep into your kids’ lives too. It already has, because you had a bomb dropped on you last night, and now you two are in crisis. 

This is too much drama. Ditch the lonely husband slowly and then quickly and don’t look back. You are the sun of who you hang out with, so moving forward, pick some new friends and look out for your kids now, and let them find new kids. 

Don’t feel bad for the lonely husband, he’s got parents, siblings and coworkers and neighbours galore to talk to. Too much drama.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> This is the part where we all call you a sucker if you really believe that all they did was “just kiss”.


oh she was kissing him.
just not on his lips.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Yea, I want to add to what @Luckylucky said about the inappropriateness of your wife spending time with this guy. We have a LOT of threads of BHs who were double betrayed. By their “best” friend and even more threads with a family friend just like your describing your family’s friendship with his. Using the kids hanging out as an excuse to get together. Like I said earlier in this thread, my spidey senses are tingling over your wife’s badmouthing her friend. That is so common when they want the guy fir themselves.

I know you just learned about this and are probably overwhelmed. Many of the members on TAM have been in your shoes, so fully understand that your emotions are all over the place. That’s why it is to your advantage to use the combined wisdom and experience that TAM offers.

I advise that you question your wife to get the details just like @SRCSRC suggested. Do not buy the I don’t remember or was drunk excuse. She should write a timeline about how that day went; including the planning for the night.

Get her phone. She may have recently been in communication with someone other than her ex friend that was going to expose her. 
Also PLEASE, get to the bottom of your wife’s “friendship “ with her friend’s ex. Something really stink about it. Talk to the ex friend ASAP. She’s going to be the most important source to get to the truth.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I don’t want to threadjack, but someone should really start a thread about VARs and polygraphs. I’d be interested to know how many relationships survived a demand like that. If my H said, here, take a polygraph, I’d take it, ask myself if we were getting a divorce and I bet you anything I would tell the truth.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

SRCSRC said:


> What you need is a detailed written timeline of that evening from your wife. Do not accept your wife's claim that she doesn't remember or she was too drunk to remember. It should include in detail how they met; how much time did the guy spend with your wife. Did they dance together? Closely? Who initiated the kissing? Was it a short kiss or was it long and over an extended period of time? Was it at a table, outside, or some other place such as in his car? Was there any petting? Was there more intense sexual activity? Describe it in detail. Your wife should provide you with this information so that you can make an informed decision on what to forgive and forget. I know a part of you does not want to hear the details, but it will most likely wear on your psyche as the years go by. Have the written timetable in your possession before you ask the ex-girlfriend her recollection of the evening.
> 
> Since you do not want to consider a polygraph, your tools are quite limited in investigating what happened. There might be emails or texts between your wife and the ex-friend that might provide you with some insight as to what exactly transpired but I don't know how you could recover them unless they are recent. The ex-friend might have copies. Ask her if she has any in her possession that she would be willing to share. Check your wife's phone and other electronic devices for any such evidence.


the hope would be that there is RECENT activity to find. emails, texts not yet deleted, social media posts, maybe something saved automatically in the cloud (like iphones sometimes do),
Even just looking at deleted emails (where the TRASH folder was not emptied), or browser history folder can turn up interesting clues.
Will you get a def smoking gun? who knows. will some bits of odd unexplained things show up if she IS fooling around? YES, probably.

and as texasmom says, he can always put a VAR in her car, or other means...to see if there is an ongoing problem

OP, we all HOPE we are wrong, and she is pure as new white snow. so trust, but verify! snoop around to confirm that trust is justified


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> and as* texasmom says*, he can always put a VAR in her car, or other means...to see if there is an ongoing problem


Whoa whoa whoa. TexasMom said nothing of the sort. If you get to a VAR, just end it. Trust is gone, there is nothing to save, walk away with some dignity. Don’t pull some Jerry Springer nonsense with spying.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Angusm1985 said:


> You are absolutely right. I am working it out in my head as this is all still pretty fresh, just found out last night. Thank you for the reality check.


This right here. This is exactly why you are going to be able to see this through...regardless of the outcome.

Most people who come to this site aren't able to accept constructive criticism as their ego is typically too bruised or fragile.

It is now time to grind, my friend, until you can get to the bottom of this.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I read back and noticed you are hanging out every weekend. You’re not family. Some people don’t even see their family every weekend. 

Change up the weekends. This has been too enmeshed and too possessive. This is now a threesome ok? Not healthy. The kids will be fine, and were probably sick of the same kids/same people every weekend.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

"Whoa whoa whoa. TexasMom said nothing of the sort. "

did i misread that. 
lol. i thought you were recommending he slip one under her car seat.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

the facts are:
1) she kissed some guy while married to you
2) she ONLY told you about it when it looked like her kooky friend was going to expose it to you
3) cheaters almost never tell the entire truth
4) she did this on one of those dreaded "girls night out" where alcohol and often loose behavior abounds

that is enough for you to investigate things a whole lot more.

for instance, as pointed out already, it is unlikely she would have kissed this guy but not to have gotten his phone number! assuming it was only one drunkin kissing session. what happend 2 days later when he called her up?

sure she could have frightened herself when she sobered up, and blocked the guy. but she also could have been thinking about him for two days, getting hornier and hornier the entire time...then he calls...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant _ who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ***_, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.


Sigh.. where do I begin, honestly you are still operating from what you thought you knew about your wife, you really need to deal with the situation how it is, not what you want to believe. The best way to judge the situation is by her actions.

When your wife lies to you for 2 whole years about a double date and then kissing some guy, with no intention to every tell you, you can't say that integrity is very important to her. Those two things don't match up. If it was important SHE WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU RIGHT AWAY. I may be important for her as far as judging everyone else but obviously when it comes to her own behavior she would much rather save her skin.

Sure it hurt to tell you that, she had to tell you she was a hypocrite. That will sting, AGAIN if she was sorry she would have told you right away. You can't say she was always truthful anymore when she lied to you at least about this for 2 years about sharing a physical intimacy. She has most decidedly NOT ALWAYS BEEN TRUTHFUL.

You may be a human lie detector but you missed that for 2 years, so you are not functioning so great when it comes to her.

Even your idea about her motive sound like wishful thinking , you know she didn't tell you to protect you, she did it to protect herself right?

You need to operate from REALITY or you are really going to hurt yourself.

Deal with the situation for what it is, NOT what you thought you knew. The most important truth you need to accept is she lied to you for 2 years and you had NO IDEA. THAT SHOULD BE YOUR STARTING POINT. Then you need to get to the bottom of this double date? How did she even think it was OK to go out like that? Find out who the guy was and how long she knew him. I bet it was more then a random encounter. The point of the lie detector is for leverage. Use the threat of a lie detector to force her hand even if you have no intention of going through with it.

She has no obvious motivation to tell you the truth, remember she wasn't ever going to tell you until the friend brought it up. I might even mention you are going to talk to the friend. Just the idea may lead her to give you a lot more.



> I am no ****, and my wife knows that.


You sure about that, she went on a girls night out double date to hook up with some random guys. A de-facto singles night with a good friend who was bored in her marriage and ended up blowing up her life shortly afterwords.

There is a prominent poster here whose wife as also good friends with a married women in the middle of blowing up her life. The both encouraged each other to push boundaries and go further into affairs. The attitude was, "everyone does it, your husband probably already has, you deserve this". They used their friendship and each other to support each other in their wrong thing. This is a common dynamic. Hence date night. Do you think that just stopped for your wife 2 years ago? How long was it going on before that? 

Ever ask your wife if she knew about the friends affair before that friend left? Ask her? Ever ask her if she covered for the friend while she was in the affair? This wife of yours who the most important thing to her is the truth, and whom integrity is very important to, ask her? Ask her how it was possible to be friends with someone like that and believe those things? Ask her did the friend make out with someone the night she cheated on you. Who was it, was it the coach?

If she say yes to one of those thing then it's time to stop projecting this integrity around your wife, and start accepting that there was a reason she was friends with this person.

Look I take NO JOY in bashing someone over the head with reality, but IT IS REALITY. You need to face it.

I know it's hard but you are operating in a different world then before.

Here is the thing, you are doing exactly the opposite of what I said. I get it it's your life, but you are leaving yourself very vulnerable.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> "Whoa whoa whoa. TexasMom said nothing of the sort. "
> 
> did i misread that.
> lol. i thought you were recommending he slip one under her car seat.


No, I never said that. I would never say that. I said someone should do a thread to find out how many relationships survive that kind of stuff. Which is a threadjack, as is this reply. Adults don’t do that. They break up, they don’t play games.

It is also crazy to me that so many men don’t seem to believe women should be allowed to have friends or go out of the house without their husband. If you think that every time she is out of your sight she’s sexing up a stranger, maybe you shouldn’t be married to her.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Talker67 said:


> the facts are:
> 1) she kissed some guy while married to you
> 2) she ONLY told you about it when it looked like her kooky friend was going to expose it to you
> 3) cheaters almost never tell the entire truth
> ...


Sorry, with adults, it is more than kissing. Trickle truth is what you are experiencing most likely.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t want to threadjack, but someone should really start a thread about VARs and polygraphs. I’d be interested to know how many relationships survived a demand like that. If my H said, here, take a polygraph, I’d take it, ask myself if we were getting a divorce and I bet you anything I would tell the truth.


I suspect not many people would survive that on this site or real life, but you would be surprised the amount of dysfunctional folks on SI that do.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sokillme said:


> I suspect not many people would survive that on this site or real life, but you would be surprised the amount of dysfunctional folks on SI that do.


It’s so juvenile. Why would you stay with someone who called you a liar? Who is going to not believe a word you say without a polygraph and a written note from a judge and photo evidence? Is that really any way to live? “The grocery store was out of your favorite chips.” “Take a polygraph!” What a bunch of silly drama.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Listen I wrote the post above before I read you found out last night, so my tone is probably too strong here. It sucks that your world is blowing up having been there years ago it's normal to not want it to change especially if you thought that world was good. But that doesn't change the fact that it HAS changed. People just do better if they come to terms with this quicker. You need to be strong to protect yourself this is what we are all trying to tell you. You can deal with the pain and mourn later, you can even make the decision later, right now you need to get to the truth.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s so juvenile. Why would you stay with someone who called you a liar? Who is going to not believe a word you say without a polygraph and a written note from a judge and photo evidence? Is that really any way to live? “The grocery store was out of your favorite chips.” “Take a polygraph!” What a bunch of silly drama.


So this is not comparable to "your favorite chips" frankly you are being silly here.

These are desperate people who have been terribly abused and gas-lit to the point were they have no idea what reality is anymore. By people whom they love but are narcissistic serial abusers often close to the point being sociopathic.

There is even something to the idea that the kind of person who ends up going all the way down the aisle with someone like that probably has some problems on their own that makes disposed to this kind of dysfunction, which explains why they stay. Generally speaking when the abuse is ongoing for long periods of time, I believe a lot of these people have a symbiotic relationship and have no intention of ever breaking that. It's where they want to be.

By the way if you know your a liar even if you are still lying you are most likely going to stay with the person who called you out on it. When you have no integrity in the first place you don't sand up for it out of some false bravado. That is all it would be.


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## Angusm1985 (10 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> Listen I wrote the post above before I read you found out last night, so my tone is probably too strong here. It sucks that your world is blowing up having been there years ago it's normal to not want it to change especially if you thought that world was good. But that doesn't change the fact that it HAS changed. People just do better if they come to terms with this quicker. You need to be strong to protect yourself this is what we are all trying to tell you. You can deal with the pain and mourn later, you can even make the decision later, right now you need to get to the truth.


The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help. 

As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation. 

Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

The best way to.approach the ex-friend might be "my wife told me about that guy she had sex with at the club. Were there others?"

Then let the friend volunteer "She said they just kissed" or let her friend acknowledge the sex.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help.
> 
> As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation.
> 
> Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


Ask your wife if she knew about her friends affair and covered for it. That is your in. That is the crack. That will give you a sense how much she REALLY cares about integrity.

Listen I have been reading these boards for years trying to help people. When you do that you find out there really is a pattern to these stories. They call it the cheaters handbook. This is why a lot of posters like myself are making some assumptions, it's not random.

First off where were you in all this? Whose wife goes out to dinner and then goes dancing with a bunch of strange men, and then on top of that calls her husband pick her up? Does this sound like the actions of a faithful spouse? Does she do that often?

Dinner with a friend, sure, out to the club because a bunch of random guys who asked them to come along? Nope.

I sorry man but the disrespect to your marriage, you and even herself by doing that, this is a married women here, she was acting like she was single.

Generally speaking you read a lot of stories about women who behave like that on boards like this. Often they have husbands who are just willfully naive about the whole thing, and yes they do have their husbands pick them up after the fact. Generally speaking this is a pattern that has been going on throughout the entire marriage but the husband ends up shocked. These are attractive women who are used to getting attention. This is part of how they get self worth, so giving that up is hard. So they go back to it and just hide if from their husbands. They like male attention. Or they go back to it when they get bored, like your wife's friend. But then I go back to the fact that there is a reason why they are friends.

I like to think of myself as someone who believes in integrity, I will tell you this, if my friend wanted to go out clubbing with a bunch of women I would tell him to **** off and get his head out of his ass.

You don't have the whole story here, something doesn't fit. Start with how much she truly knew about the friends affair. Not what she has told you so far, assume she was covering for that.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So she makes 1st bad decision to tell them about her birthday and accept drinks from strange men at Nobu. She makes 2nd bad decision to speak with them and tell them of her plans. She makes 3rd bad decision to invite them (all 8 of them or whatever) to join her friend and her at the club. She makes 4th bad decision to dance (almost certainly inappropriately) with them at the club where she fancies at least one of them. She makes 5th bad decision to kiss him and God knows what else (almost certainly groping and feeling up at the very least) at the club. And then she makes the monumentally bad 6th decision to not tell you about it until she is forced to. [REMEMBER - THESE ARE ALL CONSCIOUS DECISIONS - NOT MISTAKES!!!!]

Now tell me again how she is a person of high integrity that is honest and you are sure would never cheat on you. She is nothing if not a series of very selfish and bad decisions and certainly not trustworthy.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

How long ago did your wife and this friend get angry and stop talking?
If they are not talking, how did she think that the ex-f would out her for kissing?
I also find it sketchy that she went out dancing with 8 guys and only kissed one?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

‘I agree they come over too often now’. That’s one thing you need to take care of, because their friendship already led to your wife and his ex going out with 5 guys, and your wife kissing one of them.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I notice you care more about this guy and his ‘crazy’ ex and we don’t really hear much about any devastation, nor do you talk much about your wife.

You did very early in your first post elaborate how fit and faithful you are. And what a catch you could be if you’d just had the chance. And seem bummed that you were faithful.

But you don’t talk about your wife or marriage all that much. I mean, do you love this women much? You don’t seem all that devastated or concerned, but we get some very descriptive posts and very detailed posts about these other people’s intimacies. Right down to how much ex friend’s gym membership cost.

There’s not much devastation or heartbreak. In fact the most emotion I get is that you’re upset about how you never got to cheat now that you’ve found out your wife has, and that you like how you look etc.

So how are you really feeling about your wife, given you just found out she kissed a guy?

The story about the sad divorcee is not pulling my heart strings. I mean, as I said… he’s got other family and friends right? Why invest so much into his life and his failures? What’s in this for you that you have to be his saviour? You don’t want to spend some alone time with your wife and daughter?? Or see other friends and family? Some date nights with your wife?? A weekend alone, with your wife, to Get through the betrayal in YOUR marriage?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> Well, it's not really possible for them to have gone to a hotel room. I picked them up myself from the club and I am not so sure the ex-friend would speak to me about it, although I could try. I sure hope she didn't sleep with him, but you never know and I do agree that she is probably not divulging all the information.


The club has a bathroom correct.

I would try to find out what she has done along with “kissing” the guy. What other secrets is she keeping. They did more then just kiss, she wouldn’t have been so devastated if that was it.

Ask her to take a polygraph, say you need a few questions answered. Set it up and take her, if she refuses then you know she is hiding the truth from you.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Again, I urge you to demand a written detailed timeline. Then talk to the ex-friend to verify or dispute what your wife says. Ask the ex-friend if she has emails or text messages that might shed light on what happened. Check your wife's phone and other electronic devices for possible relevant entries. There really isn't much else you can do other than demand a polygraph. You have made it clear you don't want to do that. Good luck to you. Hopefully, your wife has truly leveled with you. 

Given what happened, your wife should not be allowed to go bar hopping with other women looking for men even if it is for "harmless fun." That is what your wife did. There is no way to sugarcoat that point. Unfortunately, given the fact that your wife was allegedly so upset about what happened, the odds that her behavior included more than just kissing are significant. But you are in the best position to make that judgment. Just don't fool yourself because doubts have a way of creeping into your mind periodically for years to come. You don't deserve or need that crap. You must find out the truth to your satisfaction. Your wife must accept that you will not forgive and forget so easily. She must do everything to make herself a safe partner forever. She must tell you the entire truth. Make that clear to her.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one


Unfortunately that’s a fairly common story here on TAM as you have noticed.

It may be true, or may not. I don’t see a real chance that it stopped there mostly because of the forced confession.

But if W thinks xBFF is going to out her, why only give a partial truth?
Surely she knows xBFF would come with the whole “they banged in the mens room” speech.

So wife can call xBFF ”crazy I already confessed the truth xBFF is trying to separate us”.
She‘s trying to maintain control.
Of course if wife is telling the truth then what?
Unfortunately the 2 year delay forced confession, plus the betrayal of act itself, shifts the belief away from W.

In some ways it’s good that xBFF is mad at W, she has no reason to cover for her. If xBFF says W had some sloppy wet ones with a rando and then panicked, I guess I’d be inclined to believe it. Pretty sure that won’t happen but we will see.

sokillme’s questions are aimed at proving a false integrity, but my feeling is that you already know this. Your W was ‘caught’ and went into self-preservation mode. This is not the behavior of a person of integrity, not to mention dancing and kissing guy(s) in the first place. She definitely has a loose association with the truth when it’s needed.

OP I haven’t heard you reflect much about that drive home from the bar.
Do you recall their demeanor? Or did you only pick up your wife? I don’t recall if you said this.
Were they all serious and quiet or giggling like schoolgirls?

I assume you went in the bar to get her?
Or was she already outside waiting?

Just trying to jog your memories while also getting insight into her head if possible.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

She is minimizing things. Firstly, what married woman leaves a restaurant with a group of men (she just met) to go for drinks? Going with them in the first place was a betrayal. why on earth would she go with them other than she was attracted to at least one? I am sure the kiss ( if that's all it was)was preceded by some intimate conversation.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

There is so much more to this story. I have never seen a story where "they just kissed" that turned out to be the full extent of it. You could be the first. 

This is two years old, gets into the big row with the bestie and now she's confessing stuff? Yikes, the more you look, the more you'll find. Especially when it deals with the doings with the toxic friend. They've been up to no good.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> _*I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant  who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ***, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.*_


Wow - you've got SO many excuses for pretending nothing happened. You've really managed to delude yourself pretty good, haven't you? 

Your entire reply is all about what a bastion of integrity your wife is, how she's "hurting" sooooo bad about what she did (what a crock of bull-****, she's been *lying* to your face every single day about it and planned on lying to your face *til the day you died*, so let's not pretend she's "hurting.") You've cited divorce laws that would screw you and lament about the poor 'ruined' children of divorced friends, and every other excuse you can come up with to pretend that nothing happened and your virtuous wife is an angel on earth. Good lord.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone work as hard as YOU to delude himself. So, I'll just say, good luck to you.

Over the next 20 years or so, you'll occasionally obsess about this and wonder what the *REAL* truth is. Because you haven't gotten it yet.

But you _know_ that deep down, don't you? Oh well. For now, it's called 'good enough.'


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

rugswept said:


> _*There is so much more to this story. I have never seen a story where "they just kissed" that turned out to be the full extent of it. You could be the first.
> 
> This is two years old, gets into the big row with the bestie and now she's confessing stuff? Yikes, the more you look, the more you'll find. Especially when it deals with the doings with the toxic friend. They've been up to no good.*_



He's chosen to swim in the Self-Delusion Pond.

He's a good candidate for SurvivingInfidelity - they're experts at self-delusion!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Usually the “just a kiss” ends up being a lot more, but I’m not sure in this case.

If there was more, the friend would likely know. And if their falling out is that serious, the concern for the wife is the friend spilling the beans on the “more”.

However, the wife has shown she’s capable of infidelity, and not feeling any guilt whatsoever while she hides it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Angusm1985 said:


> The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help.
> 
> As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation.
> 
> Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


Well it looks bad enough as is.

She made a whole series of really bad decisions for a married woman, didn't she?

Why was she letting a group of men buy her drinks and visit with her when she was supposed to be visiting with her friend?

Why did she go clubbing with those guys?

Why dance with those guys? You aren't naive enough to miss what touching went on?

Then she starts making out with one. It wasn't just a peck and an "oops".

In that environment, it was making out.

So at that point she remembered she was a married mother and untangled her body from some guy she just met that night and called you to get her.

She then decides to deprive you of your choice and agency within your marriage to her by hiding what she did from you instead of coming clean.

Trusting your wife is as big of an issue (maybe bigger Even) than her infidelity and yes, she did cheat on you even though she stopped before going all the way.

How has her behavior been since confessing?

How did she seem while confessing?

I don't think the guy you two are friends with is a problem btw. I saw posters saying your wife is too close to him and I don't get that at all.

Mrs. C and I have a similar friend but I got him to fry his ex who was behaving a lot like your wife's ex friend and Mrs. C and I both love the guy we are friends with and I'm not worried about Mrs. C being inappropriate with our friend.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

So sorry @Angusm1985 for this I do have a question after the quote below.



Angusm1985 said:


> My wife sat me down last night and began crying, telling me, "there is something I have to tell you" anyway, my wife proceeded to tell me that she, along with her friend went to Nobu in Newport Beach for her birthday and met a few guys. These guys, my wife and her friend got a taxi together to go to a local club. While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys.


your wife says she got upset after kissing a guy at the club and called you to come and pick them up correct? My question for you and for her is this she told you met these guys before going to the club because she says they shared ataxi together. So I would be asking that they were obviously together with these guys before the club and how long were they together prior to sharing the taxi and if anything else happened before or on the way to the club. Also how long were they there inNewport Beach before going to the club? Best of luck!


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

I would still talk to her friends ex husband when they had their issues she may have went on and told him some things about their times together with your wife.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Finally as @re16 said there is no real reason to do but one of two things to either accept what she has said as all that happened and move on or as he said tell her one chance to come completely clean and let her know you will be verifying and looking closer to put this behind you guys once and for all and that may include a polygraph exam.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> _*your wife says she got upset after kissing a guy at the club and called you to come and pick them up correct? My question for you and for her is this she told you met these guys before going to the club because she says they shared ataxi together. So I would be asking that they were obviously together with these guys before the club and how long were they together prior to sharing the taxi and if anything else happened before or on the way to the club. Also how long were they there inNewport Beach before going to the club? Best of luck!*_


Please stop infusing LOGIC into the Self Delusion Pond. It really muddies the waters and makes it SO much harder to pretend.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

@ConanHub you don’t think that his wife hanging out so much with her ex- friend’s ex husband without her husband there is suspect or could lead to an inappropriate relationship? I think about the number of threads that we have that include affairs with family friends hidden for sometimes years under the guise of getting together so the kids can play. 

What has me suspicious is the badmouthing of her ex friend. This was her partner in crime but now she’s being protective of this guy. To me it rings of a woman wanting him for herself or wanting to save him. I see on these boards and in real life that women can develop feelings for a guy that she sees up close getting hurt. Kind of the opposite that many of us guys do. Aka, play “captain save a h...”. Kind of like in the movie, Along Came Polly”. Yea , yea, I know it’s just a movie but it’s about a phenomenon that really happens. 
Just wanted to put that out there.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jsmart said:


> @ConanHub you don’t think that his wife hanging out so much with her ex- friend’s ex husband without her husband there is suspect or could lead to an inappropriate relationship? I think about the number of threads that we have that include affairs with family friends hidden for sometimes years under the guise of getting together so the kids can play.
> 
> What has me suspicious is the badmouthing of her ex friend. This was her partner in crime but now she’s being protective of this guy. To me it rings of a woman wanting him for herself or wanting to save him. I see on these boards and in real life that women can develop feelings for a guy that she sees up close getting hurt. Kind of the opposite that many of us guys do. Aka, play “captain save a h...”. Kind of like in the movie, Along Came Polly”. Yea , yea, I know it’s just a movie but it’s about a phenomenon that really happens.
> Just wanted to put that out there.


I missed the part about the guy friend and wife spending a lot of time together without @Angusm1985 . That could be a flag.

As to badmouthing the skanky ex wife/friend? Mrs. C has far more vitriol, in general, towards her ex friend than even me and I was really angry with her treatment of our mutual guy friend.

Mrs. C never spends time with our guy friend without me though and I'm definitely not worried about her faithfulness to me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jsmart said:


> @ConanHub you don’t think that his wife hanging out so much with her ex- friend’s ex husband without her husband there is suspect or could lead to an inappropriate relationship? I think about the number of threads that we have that include affairs with family friends hidden for sometimes years under the guise of getting together so the kids can play.
> 
> What has me suspicious is the badmouthing of her ex friend. This was her partner in crime but now she’s being protective of this guy. To me it rings of a woman wanting him for herself or wanting to save him. I see on these boards and in real life that women can develop feelings for a guy that she sees up close getting hurt. Kind of the opposite that many of us guys do. Aka, play “captain save a h...”. Kind of like in the movie, Along Came Polly”. Yea , yea, I know it’s just a movie but it’s about a phenomenon that really happens.
> Just wanted to put that out there.


I think she is probably a lot more concerned about covering her ass for her misbehavior and keeping the marriage she has.

If she is spending a lot of time with the guy without @Angusm1985 , that is a concern.


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help.
> 
> As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation.
> 
> Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


Nobu, I presume this is in South Florida? I am reading some of the comments on here (not yet finished). But if I ever told my boyfriend that I was going to Nobu (we live in South Florida), he would NOT be happy about that at all. Especially, if I say other guys are meeting my friend and I there. Just like I would NOT be happy if the tables were turned and he did that to me. 

Trickle truth as a poster on here commented, is what you're getting sadly. I hope that, indeed, the kiss is "all" it was.. But even as such, the kiss should've never happened... 

The whole thing should've never happened. I know where I can and can't go without my boyfriend.. 

I'm sorry though, that you're going through this.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

jsmart said:


> @ConanHub you don’t think that his wife hanging out so much with her ex- friend’s ex husband without her husband there is suspect or could lead to an inappropriate relationship? I think about the number of threads that we have that include affairs with family friends hidden for sometimes years under the guise of getting together so the kids can play.


I think OP’s last post clarified the xHubby a little better. Initially it sounded pretty suspicious but having seen the longer explanation I think that was overblown.

Having said that, the wife is dishonest so anything is on the table really.


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## Killi (May 12, 2021)

Time to acknowledge reality, you see what it is but refuse to accept it.


Angusm1985 said:


> My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another


Then why are you in this situation again?


Angusm1985 said:


> My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant *** who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth.


Ahem. She only told you because she feared her friend would tell first, she did it only because it allows her greater control on the situation compared to when another person reveals it. She hid it for two years so there goes her integrity. 

Also for someone that is so into integrity she seems to have really sh*t friends. In fact the people they surround themselves with provides a mirror into their true self even when they present a facade to you.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> You are absolutely right. I am working it out in my head as this is all still pretty fresh, just found out last night. Thank you for the reality check.





BeyondRepair007 said:


> I think OP’s last post clarified the xHubby a little better. Initially it sounded pretty suspicious but having seen the longer explanation I think that was overblown.
> 
> Having said that, the wife is dishonest so anything is on the table really.


Couple of things:
First, as it is described, I see no red flags relative to the ex- friend's husband.
Second, ( and all of this has already been pointed out), you are, not surprisingly, somewhat deluded re both your ability tom
detect dishonesty and your wife's integrity. Many of us were the same.
Again, this has been pointed out already, but many people would find their wife going to clubs, dancing with strangers both objectionable and dangerous. Why were you ok with this prior to the kissing being revealed?
What did your wife say to explain the need for being picked up at the time you were called to do so? Mere intoxication as the reason? Who watched your kids while you went to get her? What time was it?
As far as getting the truth this far out, that will be difficult. It was 2 years ago. Polygraphs are unreliable but useful, sometimes, in extracting the truth pre-testing( the parking lot confession). Your wife, having deceived you for so long, really lacks standing to object to one. Her reaction to the request for one will be very revealing. 
I really cannot think of much else you can do. Perhaps ask the ex- friend's husband if he knows any th thing or if he can give you his understanding of what would transpire when the two hung out. He may have some info or observations.
I completely understand your resentment toward your wife. Like you, when this happened to me,I had many opportunities which I had forgone in reliance on my contract with my XWW. We were both young and reasonably attractive and successful.
Maybe just keep your eyes and ears open. Additional information may surface. Sucks never really knowing for sure.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Thanks for sharing that you just found out. I know these comments are hard to hear given where you are.

My suggestion is to tell your wife that given what she's done (and hid it for two years and only confessed because this ex friend of hers is going to reach out to you) you have a hard time believing anything she says to you.

That the only way to start the process of potentially rebuilding trust is to have her take a poly. If she's the woman you claim to be (a woman of "Integrity" she should be more than happy to do this for you and your marriage and your family.

If she's not that should speak volumes to you.

More than likely if she does say she'll do it she will give you the parking lot confession of more details with the hope of not going through with it because you now have everything. GO THROUGH WITH IT ANYWAY!!

Like I said, you need to know the truth or this is going to build and build and trust me you will not be happy. The last thing you want to do is play detective with your wife in the coming years. Any relationship is built on the foundation of truth and honesty.

You can't change what you won't confront.

Glad you found TAM. The people here can help you formulate a plan and every step along this journey.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Man, wow I'm sorry - if you believe what she said 

yes you can get a motel hotel near a club, and may be the guys have had a truck or a car where they can do the deed. I;ve seen it people doing it in bathrooms. they might went to a motel then came back to pick them up. 

dude, you are a guy and had you share of the night life. you know what happens when a woman drinking in a bar and they goes out of her way to ride with someone she doesn't know to another bar together. 

you dont need to even ask her friend. they might even cover for reach others despite their relationship. 

and I agree with what people said here, there is something between your wife and her ex husband. but neither one of them want to open the Pandora box


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

sideways said:


> You can't change what you won't confront.


^^^^Correct^^^^^ and you can't forgive what you don't know.

If you do forgive without investigating, I would call that a rugsweep, and your mind will continue to drift back to this situation and work through details over time and eventually you will find there was more and have another DDay, potentially years later.

You are dealing with 2 years of lying... what are the chances that is ONLY time she lied like that..... pretty much nil. You know she was discussing this multiple times with the ex-friend and probably laughing about it, and you, for not knowing her secret...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You know the OP is having a hard time accepting facts when his wife has lied to him for 2 years, confesses because her best buddy doesn’t like her having “chats” with her husband and blows up the friendship over it, and the best friend is supposedly of low character, and OP sings praises of her integrity. She’s human. She proved it


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> You know the OP is having a hard time accepting facts when his wife has lied to him for 2 years, confesses because her best buddy doesn’t like her having “chats” with her husband and blows up the friendship over it, and the best friend is supposedly of low character, and OP sings praises of her integrity. She’s human. She proved it


Agreed... and I think we've all been there when the spouse is put on a pedestal and an entire image of that person has been built in their minds.

It is a hard step to take a few steps back and look at the situation for what it is, but OP really needs to take that step, and topple the pedestal in his mind.

Everytime there is a thread with a preemptive confession to avoid someone else telling the betrayed spouse first, the initial confession is the tip of an iceberg.

The extended period and extent of OP's wife badmouthing the ex-friend seems also like a preemptive discrediting of her to ensure if she talks, OP's wife has somewhat of an immediate out by claiming ex-friend is just being her typical crazy and is lying.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

It could be just a kiss seeing that you picked them up. Good think you did - it could of went farther. 

My friend saw a text that was suspect from another guy. Upon questioning, she started with it was only flirting. Then upon more pressing, they also held hands. Then it turned into kissing and as you might imagine, she finally admitted to having sex with the guy. This is called the trickle truth.

If I were you, I would wonder what other things she did that can still be hidden with no one to tell on her. If she felt bad and came out with it that is one thing. But being forced to is something entirely different. Be firm - now is the time to spill the beans on everything.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I have a tough time getting away from the idea that the wife gets to go out on her birthday, on her own, dinner, drinking, whatever... while the husband stays home and doesn't think twice about it. There are explicit boundaries, and there are implied boundaries. I don't think many would anticipate the need to come up with boundaries that say, you can't go out bar-hopping on your own. It would be implied in most marriages. It's not as if it was sneaky subterfuge, hey honey, I'm going to go shopping at the mall with some friends tonight, and then heads out to the bars or dancing or whatever. I think most would even have some issue if their spouse had said something like that, going to the mall with friends, and they went bowling in a co-ed group instead. 

But that's not what happened. He knew she was going out to celebrate her birthday. Wouldn't most do that *with *their spouse? So the boundaries are already much looser than normal here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> I have a tough time getting away from the idea that the wife gets to go out on her birthday, on her own, dinner, drinking, whatever... while the husband stays home and doesn't think twice about it. There are explicit boundaries, and there are implied boundaries. I don't think many would anticipate the need to come up with boundaries that say, you can't go out bar-hopping on your own. It would be implied in most marriages. It's not as if it was sneaky subterfuge, hey honey, I'm going to go shopping at the mall with some friends tonight, and then heads out to the bars or dancing or whatever. I think most would even have some issue if their spouse had said something like that, going to the mall with friends, and they went bowling in a co-ed group instead.
> 
> But that's not what happened. He knew she was going out to celebrate her birthday. Wouldn't most do that *with *their spouse? So the boundaries are already much looser than normal here.


The problem here is that she just went to dinner with a friend and detoured into infidelityville.

You got me thinking about boundaries though and you have a good point.

What was @Angusm1985 thinking when he had to pick his drunk wife up from a club when she was just supposed to be going to dinner with her friend?

That does show some terrible boundaries now that you mention it.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

WW demonstrated that her boundaries are very weak. Bar hopping with eight guys is way out of line. Physical interaction that involved at least kissing (how long, how many times is not discussed) and possibly much more is approaching ONS category. Wherever the truth leads you, and I urge you to turn over every rock to get to the truth concerning her behavior, you will carry this betrayal for years. You will wonder if there have been other indiscretions. That is why a polygraph is so important. They are not perfect but they do sometimes compel parking lot confessions. If you are satisfied after talking to the ex-friend that nothing more happened and that your wife has never before stepped out of line concerning your marriage, I can see forgoing any more investigation. But if there are major discrepancies, I urge you to reconsider a polygraph.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Angusm1985 said:


> My wife has recently had a falling out with one of her friends. Her friend and her(my wife) have not spoken much over the past few years, but our kids are very close, so I see her friends ex and their kids every weekend. Part of the falling out my wife had with her friend, included her friend, well ex-f4iend telling every person my wife knew every bad thing she has done or said to or about anyone in the past 5 years. I thought it was pretty low of her friend to do, but that's what happened. My wife sat me down last night and began crying, telling me, "there is something I have to tell you" anyway, my wife proceeded to tell me that she, along with her friend went to Nobu in Newport Beach for her birthday and met a few guys. These guys, my wife and her friend got a taxi together to go to a local club. While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys. She said afterwards she was devastated and called me to come pick them up from the club. Anyway, I recall this night vividly and they were pretty smashed when I went to pick them up. So I guess, what's your advice? I am kind of numb to the situation because I never expected this from my wife as I have never once messed around and I have the ability, I am a 36 year old man, very well off financially and work out for about two hours every morning, very physically fit and have a pretty good personality. I am pretty humiliated by the situation, we have been married for 13 years, and together for 16 years. I have two kids 7 and 12, and besides this incident never have had an issue with my wife, as far as I know. She only told me, two years later out of fear that herex-friend would call and tell me as she moves down her list of people to inform of my wife's indescritions. I feel her friend is being insane, because the friend (f 41 years old) left her now ex-husband to travel to Spain with a 24 year old soccer coach she met at her son's soccer practice, so what's the saying those that lice in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. But I always took pride in being faithful to my wife, and I am pretty bummed out about the situation.


I wouldn't worry too much about the kiss. To be honest, I would be mad my wife even told me had she done something like that. My philosophy is that if my wife did anything like a ONS, I'm not getting divorced over that, HOWEVER, if she has spoken to that person prior, or exchanges contact info with that person, I file divorce ASAP. But that's just me.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The ex-friend is an unreliable witness. She has proven herself to have poor judgement and is out to get your wife. She is on a vendetta against her, so she will likely tell you all sorts of lies to try to break up your marriage. I wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with her.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Angusm1985 said:


> The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help.
> 
> As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation.
> 
> Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one. Now, if you had issues outside of that, then maybe deal with it a different way, but if she's been loyal and a good wife except for this, squash it. 

A lot of people here been cheated on so they're projecting their circumstance on you.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one. Now, if you had issues outside of that, then maybe deal with it a different way, but if she's been loyal and a good wife except for this, squash it.
> 
> A lot of people here been cheated on so they're projecting their circumstance on you.


Kissing some other dude besides your husband and behind hubby’s back is no big deal? And lying about it and hiding it for 2 years?? Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree there. you don’t know what she totally did anymore than her husband that she’s been betraying for the past 2 years knows.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Huh? A ONS is ok, as long as it wasn’t pre-planned? Wow, I thought I heard it all. I have a feeling that the OP doesn’t subscribe to such a philosophy. He’s obviously very hurt to hear that his wife of 13 years and the mother of his 2 kids, was at a minimum making out with some guy she met a few hour earlier. 

Some will say that “allowing” your wife to hang out is being controlling but this doesn’t sound like a couple that has these type of issues. She was supposed to be going to a restaurant with her buddy to celebrate her birthday, then after meeting or (meeting up) with 8 strange? dudes and making out with one of them. Her husband was none the wiser. It doesn’t sound like he batted an eye at his wife turning a restaurant hang out into a clubbing situation, which I gather must have run much later than the original plans.

question is, Why wouldn’t she have went home early so she can spend some of her birthday with family? Supposedly the friend is a wild one but like @sokillme is always saying, birds of a feather. Who’s to say that it was not the wife that was clamoring to go with these guys because she had the hots for one of them. The confession 2 years later really stinks of trickle truth. I hope not but what are the chances that she didn’t give that guy her number and make a date or hook up later on?


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Mybabysgotit said:


> She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one. Now, if you had issues outside of that, then maybe deal with it a different way, but if she's been loyal and a good wife except for this, squash it.
> 
> A lot of people here been cheated on so they're projecting their circumstance on you.


Say what?! A kiss on the cheek, though inappropriate given all the other stuff that went down that night and the fact this guy was a stranger, is not the end of the world. A make-out session where heavy petting was involved that may have even gone so far as having sexual relations of some form is a f--king big deal. We don't know what happened. Hopefully, the OP will be able to figure it out.
As many of us know, kissing between cheating adults is often a code for sexual relations. It was in my case. Let's suspend final judgment on everything until OP gathers more information.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Angusm1985 said:


> So I guess, what's your advice?


Trust until there is a reason to not trust. She just gave you a reason to not trust.

She had the privilege of going clubbing with a friend and a trusting husband.

That's over. Not saying you are her warden. You shouldn't try to forbid her to go out with friends.

But clubbing and staying out late? Ya, that's over. She f'd that up.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SRCSRC said:


> Say what?! A kiss on the cheek, though inappropriate given all the other stuff that went down that night and the fact this guy was a stranger, is not the end of the world. A make-out session where heavy petting was involved that may have even gone so far as having sexual relations of some form is a f--king big deal. We don't know what happened. Hopefully, the OP will be able to figure it out.


Cheaters trickle truth of what goes on. A kiss is what she is telling him, but it's likely the minimal of what actually went on.
She's just hoping that he buys what she told him and accepts it.
That's what we are trying to help him find out.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mybabysgotit said:


> She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one. Now, if you had issues outside of that, then maybe deal with it a different way, but if she's been loyal and a good wife except for this, squash it.
> 
> A lot of people here been cheated on so they're projecting their circumstance on you.


Yes, kissing your woman sure isn't a big deal. Thanks for letting us know. 😉 If I understood your earlier post, it would be ok to bed her as well as long as she didn't plan ahead. 

What she did is infidelity and then lying by omission to most including OP and his wife new it


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

SRCSRC said:


> WW demonstrated that her boundaries are very weak.


It's not just "her" boundaries that are weak. This was apparently an acceptable outing, until it became known something happened.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Seems people have different tolerances. Personally, it has always been one strike and you are out for me.
In any case, apparently, he finds her behavior( that he knows of, which may be incomplete) a betrayal( which it is). Some folks just will not tolerate this.
If my wife kissed a stranger, danced with one without my consent, it would be curtains. But, it would be good to find the whole truth. But, how exactly?
I would start by getting a written timeline. Written so she cannot deviate later claiming he misheard.
Then, star looking to punch holes.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> It's not just "her" boundaries that are weak. This was apparently an acceptable outing, until it became known something happened.


The fact that she engaged with those guys at the restaurant and followed them to a club should have been a breach of her boundaries. I hope the OP agrees.

It looks like explicit boundaries have to be spelled out from this point forward. As a consequence of her infidelity, and it is an act of infidelity, I would advise no more GNO for the foreseeable future. This is just for starters. I advise the OP not to rug sweep this entire episode. He needs to get to the bottom of what happened. He doesn't need his wife to confess to more of the story someday because of unending guilt. I've seen it happen too often. The BS is again devastated and feels robbed of his choice to continue the marriage.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one.


First, he likely is getting trickle truthed. I'm betting more happened, even if it stopped at grinding on the dancefloor.

Yes, kissing someone else is a big deal. She has poor boundaries. 

And if it's not a big deal, then she could do it again and still shouldn't be a big deal, yes?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

And, by punching holes, I do not mean, neccesarily, finding concrete evidence. It may be impossible to find it at this juncture. Even contemporaneous sleuthing is, often, fruitless. 
Rather, start by assessing the plausibility of this story.
First thing that jumps to my mind is how incredibly dangerous this was. Think about it: two women, drunk, going off alone with 8 complete strangers, men they knew nothing about.
The kissing one, while drunk, late at night. This was a recipe for, potentially, being sexually assaulted. Surely, your wife, if she has even a modicum of sense and knowledge of what transpires in situations like this, was out of her mind doing this.
That is one reason I think this may not have been a random event, but, rather, planned.
Also, how was she sleeping, functioning etc in the ensuing years? If she, really, had the kind of integrity you claim, why was it not eating at her, preventing normal functioning and sleep etc.
I bet others here will spot more issues with her version that, upon examination, are not consistent with the normal behavior of a reasonably evolved adult.
Many of us are cynical due to the events in our own marriages and having read so many stories here. There was a time, before infidelity touched me personally, that I would have felt her story was likely true. I got a real education re the prevalence of infidelity, particularly among wives, as I was unaware that women are wired just like men as regards promiscuity.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

Bare minimum they made out heavily for hours including groping.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

GoldenR said:


> Bare minimum they made out heavily for hours including groping.


I would think that the OP has already asked her the details of what went on. Was it a short kiss? Was it several kisses? Was it a make-out session that included heavy petting? Did it go further than that? He has been reluctant to share what she has said in that regard. Again, he must talk to the ex-friend even if she has an ax to grind and may be dishonest. If he asks enough details, he might get some truthful responses.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Seven people total? Horsesh*t. The wife is lying. Most likely what happened is there were only two guys, one for her and one for her wingwoman. The meetup was not happenstance. The two men met them at the restaurant and the four then went to the bar. The wife was most likely cozying up to her date all night and it escalated to kissing and heavy petting. He had his hands all over her: her ass, her tits... everywhere. And I'm with the lady from Texas on this one. To hell with GPS and VARs. When a relationship degenerates to a point where a spouse has to play Sherlock to suss out the truth, the core trust of the relationship has been obliterated anyways. There is nothing to save.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jsmart said:


> You know there is more to your WW’s story, right? Her friend didn’t end their friendship over that. As for your wife kissing the OM, that is very likely a trickle truth. I bet my next mortgage payment that very like there was at the very least a BJ and more likely full sex.
> 
> A long term friendship that includes the husband and kids is not going to be wrecked over a kiss. You better get in touch with the ex friend to get the full story.


yeah she cheated. It is almost at the point that is was her intention. So what is he going to do ? His wife went on a man hunt. 

It's sickening


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Angusm1985 said:


> I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant *** who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ****, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.


blind faith. You are scared to check into it. Live in ignorance on blind faith. It's your life, not ours


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

GoldenR said:


> Bare minimum they made out heavily for hours including groping.


It went farther than that. He needs to move on


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

The problem is that you really can't trust anything right now from her, this is self-preservation time for her, she will denial and only provide the LEAST amount of information she can to save this marriage....keep in mind she was NEVER going to tell you this if it hadn't been for this ex friend she was ready to take it to the grave. What ever you think you know from her lips you only know part of the story....and you don't even know what she may have done in the past, so please don't think for one sec she is a bad liar, she is not she can definitely compartment her secrets. Stop being clueless


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I wouldn’t divorce her over it unless I found out she banged a dude. She did call him to come get her. Not typical cheater tactic.
But I’d make Damn sure I got the full, whole truth from the ex friend no matter what. And poly abd ask if she’d had sex with a man other than her husband since marriage, to show her how I felt. JMO
I wouldn’t rugsweep it and would be dishing out some heat over it.


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

Three words…..
Polygraph
Polygraph
Polygraph

Actually when you tell her that you’ve scheduled a polygraph for her, her immediate reaction will tell you all you need to know

Good luck
Stay strong

and do what you must to be able to look the man in the mirror in the eye every morning


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Besides demanding a polygraph, tell your wife you’re going to DNA test your kids. The odds are they are your biological children, but by doing it, you’re letting her know her cheating ways have completely destroyed the dynamic and trust that you thought were your family.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Would a PI be worthwhile?


ArthurGPym said:


> When a relationship degenerates to a point where a spouse has to play Sherlock to suss out the truth, the core trust of the relationship has been obliterated anyways. There is nothing to save.


Exactly! @Angusm1985, you will never be able to trust her again. You can play detective the rest of your life, what is the point to that.



Lostinthought61 said:


> *What ever you think you know from her lips you only know part of the story*....and you don't even know what she may have done in the past, so please don't think for one sec she is a bad liar, she is not she can definitely compartment her secrets. Stop being clueless


Just think about it. What is a kiss between a man and a woman? If a woman receives a kiss from a strange man, what is she telling him? What is he hearing? Just the beginning. One kiss begets another, deeper more passionate. Hands get into the act as the passion builds, all over one another maybe in the taxi. Watching the other couple engaged in passion. You know all of this and you know she didn't stop with a peck on the cheek. She is a grown woman, and he was a grown man.


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## Hurthusband77 (May 9, 2021)

On this and other boards, we tend to see infidelity everywhere. However, in this situation, I wouldn’t surprise me that your wife is trying to manage the narrative because she is worried about what dirt her former friend has on her. I echo what others have said, ask her take a polygraph and gauge her reaction.
I too never thought my wife would have a ONS, a PA, and multiple EA’s over our entire marriage. We were HS sweethearts, each other’s first, etc, and never thought she would cheat. Boy was I completely wrong.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Captain Obvious said:


> Besides demanding a polygraph, tell your wife you’re going to DNA test your kids. The odds are they are your biological children, but by doing it, you’re letting her know her cheating ways have completely destroyed the dynamic and trust that you thought were your family.


And then ask for a divorce. Because once you’ve crossed this line, there is no going back. If you’re only staying to make her “pay,” you’re just going to hurt your children. Just divorce and don’t bother with all this drama and nonsense.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Angusm1985 said:


> Well, it's not really possible for them to have gone to a hotel room. I picked them up myself from the club and I am not so sure the ex-friend would speak to me about it, although I could try. I sure hope she didn't sleep with him, but you never know and I do agree that she is probably not divulging all the information.


Simple polygraph about this incident and any other sexual incidents since you have been together. Her and toxic friend going for drunken GNO. You might be shocked.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Angusm1985 said:


> I appreciate it everyone, and I will take most of the advice here. I am pretty sure she is telling the truth in what happened, and I will continue to investigate it, but I don't want to be away from my kids, so getti g a hitel is out of the question, i may sleep in the guest room though. My wife has always been rock solid and she and I have always been truthful with one another. I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt. I honestly believe that she is telling me the truth, so I will ask her now ex-friend to see if that is the case. I always dis-liked her friend, she is a narcissistic pain in the ass. My wife has been with me for a long time, integrity is very important to her, so I can tell she is hurting just telling me about the situation and i think she did the right thing by telling me so i dont have to live like a little ignorant *** who thinks their wife actually loves them, at least i know the truth. Either way, in the state of CA as the breadwinner you are pretty much Ed screwed after year 10 of marriage if you end up in divorce. I have seen my friends go through it and it ruined their children, and their lives. I do love my wife so much, and if I believed there was more to it, I would be gone. It will take me time to accept this, but I am no ****, and my wife knows that. Lie detector is way out of the question, I would Lea e instead of that, and boundaries are also out of the question I am more than capable of dealing with this I suppose without it and I am no detective, if I needed those skills to figure out what happened, it's not worth the time to repair I suppose. Thanks everyone.


No more GNO since she can't be trusted when drinking.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No, I never said that. I would never say that. I said someone should do a thread to find out how many relationships survive that kind of stuff. Which is a threadjack, as is this reply. Adults don’t do that. They break up, they don’t play games.
> 
> It is also crazy to me that so many men don’t seem to believe women should be allowed to have friends or go out of the house without their husband. If you think that every time she is out of your sight she’s sexing up a stranger, maybe you shouldn’t be married to her.


It is called gathering information to make an informed consent. No later thought of what if....no way for spouse to deny to family and friends and make you out to be crazy....you get proof. 

There are no GNO or BNO in my marriage. Wife wants to go clubbing and drinking w/o me present...she can carry her ass.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s so juvenile. Why would you stay with someone who called you a liar? Who is going to not believe a word you say without a polygraph and a written note from a judge and photo evidence? Is that really any way to live? “The grocery store was out of your favorite chips.” “Take a polygraph!” What a bunch of silly drama.


She has been lying and hiding her escapades for over 2 years. She has proven herself to be untrustworthy


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey. I hope you're doing ok @Angusm1985 .


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> She didn't do anything but kiss this guy; it's not a big deal unless you make it one. Now, if you had issues outside of that, then maybe deal with it a different way, but if she's been loyal and a good wife except for this, squash it.
> 
> A lot of people here been cheated on so they're projecting their circumstance on you.


Sucking face with someone other than your spouse is cheating. She has not been a loyal wife....hiding it for 2 years. What else is she hiding.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And then ask for a divorce. Because once you’ve crossed this line, there is no going back. If you’re only staying to make her “pay,” you’re just going to hurt your children. Just divorce and don’t bother with all this drama and nonsense.


I disagree. She needs to feel the impact of what she has done. Actions have consequences. Rugsweeping is going to hurt the children a lot more. All this "drama and nonsense" is because the wife decided to party down with 8 strangers on her birthday and at the very least, make out with one them, then proceed to hide it from her husband for 2yrs, and has only come forward now bc she was scared her friend was going to out her, so at least she can control the narrative.


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

Jeez. This thread went from zero to 100 faster than a Bughatti Veyron. Totally off the chizz with wild, unsupported speculation. What the heck, people?

A lot of married people, at various points, catch ourselves moving toward the danger zone. A bit too much booze, elation from a party atmosphere, a club or hotel that creates a disconnect from reality, next thing you know you're a husband motorboating some woman's giant titties on a dance floor (this was me once, otherwise a quiet homebody married man), or you're a wife kissing a dude. Then you catch a glimpse of yourself in a mirror or whatever and you're like: "What the **** is wrong with me, I'm married and I love my husband/wife. Stop!" So you stop. You got close to the line, maybe dipped a big toe over the line, but quickly retreated to well behind the line.

Those little forays are normal. Most of us who do this remind ourselves how fortunate we are to be married and redouble our investment into the marriage. Most of us never disclose these instances, a little white lie of omission. Where there is no actual cheating, and where there is commitment to the marriage, this is pretty normal. The wild card here is the lunatic ex friend and her threat to blow up OP's wife's world. I think OP should move on.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Butforthegrace said:


> Jeez. This thread went from zero to 100 faster than a Bughatti Veyron. Totally off the chizz with wild, unsupported speculation. What the heck, people?
> 
> A lot of married people, at various points, catch ourselves moving toward the danger zone. A bit too much booze, elation from a party atmosphere, a club or hotel that creates a disconnect from reality, next thing you know you're a husband motorboating some woman's giant titties on a dance floor (this was me once, otherwise a quiet homebody married man), or you're a wife kissing a dude. Then you catch a glimpse of yourself in a mirror or whatever and you're like: "What the **** is wrong with me, I'm married and I love my husband/wife. Stop!" So you stop. You got close to the line, maybe dipped a big toe over the line, but quickly retreated to well behind the line.
> 
> Those little forays are normal. Most of us who do this remind ourselves how fortunate we are to be married and redouble our investment into the marriage. Most of us never disclose these instances, a little white lie of omission. Where there is no actual cheating, and where there is commitment to the marriage, this is pretty normal. The wild card here is the lunatic ex friend and her threat to blow up OP's wife's world. I think OP should move on.


Spot on, except for 2 things.
OP should make sure this is the extent before moving on.

That suspect behavior of meeting guys at dinner then going to a bar with them leaves lots of unanswered questions that fit outside the scope of an “oops what am I doing” scenario.

But otherwise agree with you, speculation and projection is really not helpful.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Butforthegrace said:


> Jeez. This thread went from zero to 100 faster than a Bughatti Veyron. Totally off the chizz with wild, unsupported speculation. What the heck, people?
> 
> A lot of married people, at various points, catch ourselves moving toward the danger zone. A bit too much booze, elation from a party atmosphere, a club or hotel that creates a disconnect from reality, next thing you know you're a husband motorboating some woman's giant titties on a dance floor (this was me once, otherwise a quiet homebody married man), or you're a wife kissing a dude. Then you catch a glimpse of yourself in a mirror or whatever and you're like: "What the **** is wrong with me, I'm married and I love my husband/wife. Stop!" So you stop. You got close to the line, maybe dipped a big toe over the line, but quickly retreated to well behind the line.
> 
> Those little forays are normal. Most of us who do this remind ourselves how fortunate we are to be married and redouble our investment into the marriage. Most of us never disclose these instances, a little white lie of omission. Where there is no actual cheating, and where there is commitment to the marriage, this is pretty normal. The wild card here is the lunatic ex friend and her threat to blow up OP's wife's world. I think OP should move on.


To those of us that will not ever get close to the line, these "little forays" are no where close to "normal". What she did is cheating and then a 2 year campaign to hide it from her spouse, another cheater tactic.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Spot on, except for 2 things.
> OP should make sure this is the extent before moving on.
> 
> That suspect behavior of meeting guys at dinner then going to a bar with them leaves lots of unanswered questions that fit outside the scope of an “oops what am I doing” scenario.
> ...


I'm with you guys on this, but just as you said, this was not a "oops what am I doing" moment. OP needs to ensure that that was it in order to move forward.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Out clubbing with guys and friend at a bar, leave the bar with said guys, admits to kissing 2 years later…….

speculation? I speculate he’s not heard the full story, and if he moves on and rugsweeps, he may have a repeat performance


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Her friend got dirt on her! The LEAST she is guilty of, she will admit. Like, she better admit she at least kissed him, or that time they spent in the bathroom/car/hotel room will be made all the more suspicious! Why is she hanging out with those who will drag her down? Usually the company we keep is a reflection of us!!!! You have 25% of the story, at best. 

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Just finding yourself motorboating titties? Some type of somnambulism?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> Just finding yourself motorboating titties? Some type of somnambulism?


What the??? By golly I’ve gotta look that one up. Bravo


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> But that's just me.


Yup. Well said: Just you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Captain Obvious said:


> I disagree. She needs to feel the impact of what she has done. Actions have consequences. Rugsweeping is going to hurt the children a lot more. All this "drama and nonsense" is because the wife decided to party down with 8 strangers on her birthday and at the very least, make out with one them, then proceed to hide it from her husband for 2yrs, and has only come forward now bc she was scared her friend was going to out her, so at least she can control the narrative.


I would imagine that a divorce would have quite an impact. I never suggested ignoring it or “rug-sweeping” anything, I agree that is a mistake. I do not think that cheaters can be fixed. All they will do is hide their behavior more carefully, not stop it. I’m not sure how getting a divorce is “rug-sweeping,” but I do still think that once you are in a relationship where you need polygraphs and are constantly checking up on someone it has become too toxic to be healthy for anyone involved, especially children.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Captain Obvious said:


> Kissing some other dude besides your husband and behind hubby’s back is no big deal? And lying about it and hiding it for 2 years?? Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree there. you don’t know what she totally did anymore than her husband that she’s been betraying for the past 2 years knows.


I didn't mean it wasn't a big deal, but it's not something I would consider getting divorced over. One time she went back to her hometown and had a girls night and I told her if she has too much fun, don't tell me. 

See the beauty of living in the US is that everyone can have their own opinion, although I do see that going away here in America. My opinion shouldn't bother others, but apparently it does....hmmmm


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I didn't mean it wasn't a big deal, but it's not something I would consider getting divorced over. One time she went back to her hometown and had a girls night and I told her if she has too much fun, don't tell me.
> 
> See the beauty of living in the US is that everyone can have their own opinion, although I do see that going away here in America. My opinion shouldn't bother others, but apparently it does....hmmmm


Your opinion doesn't bother me, I just said I disagree with it. I hope you're not confusing the two.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

[


TexasMom1216 said:


> I would imagine that a divorce would have quite an impact. I never suggested ignoring it or “rug-sweeping” anything, I agree that is a mistake. I do not think that cheaters can be fixed. All they will do is hide their behavior more carefully, not stop it. I’m not sure how getting a divorce is “rug-sweeping,” but I do still think that once you are in a relationship where you need polygraphs and are constantly checking up on someone it has become too toxic to be healthy for anyone involved, especially children.


I don't think he wants a divorce. She might be telling the truth about what really happened that night, and she may genuinely be sorry, but since she hid it for 2 years, and only told because she was afraid of being outed by her ex-friend, her word his meaningless. The polygraph could help to restore trust, and the DNA testing could put the fear of god into her and show her what her stupid choices have done to reach that point.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Captain Obvious said:


> [
> 
> 
> I don't think he wants a divorce. She might be telling the truth about what really happened that night, and she may genuinely be sorry, but since she hid it for 2 years, and only told because she was afraid of being outed by her ex-friend, her word his meaningless. The polygraph could help to restore trust, and the DNA testing could put the fear of god into her and show her what her stupid choices have done to reach that point.


I respectfully disagree that a polygraph would restore trust, or that a DNA test would help with anything. I believe you either trust someone or you don’t. If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone. No matter what my husband did, I would never ask my H for a polygraph to “prove” he was being honest and expect him to stay with me. If he did, I wouldn’t respect him. If he asked me for a polygraph or a DNA test, I would give him both, prove that I’m not lying, and then I would immediately divorce him. I don’t think a marriage where one person is actively not trusting of the other is healthy, nor can I imagine the misery of having to wonder all the time if your spouse is lying. But that is just my perspective. If she’s telling him it was just a kiss, IMHO he has two choices: believe her, tell her how angry and hurt he is and that she will have to give him time to trust again, and then truly forgive her, or leave because he doesn’t trust her any more. 

Of course, I would never keep a huge secret like that for two years, so my morals and ideals are totally different from the wife of the OP. I’m just so sorry this happened to him, I’m sure he’s broken hearted.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think what is readily evident and confessed to is plenty.

There doesn't need to be speculation where an actual problem has been confessed to.

Hopefully the hubbub hasn't scared @Angusm1985 off because it would be enlightening to see how things go.

Messed up Boundaries, choices that won't pass the spouse test and a damaged trust are plenty for him to deal with without speculation.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

I agree with TexasMom1216 about the polygraph but probably for reasons different than her´s.

The domain of Trust and Distrust is the unknown. Same if that unknown happens in what are only intentions but not still facts, already facts that are hidden and related stuff.

But........in this case....
There are known facts, a set of them that at least includded a kiss, consistent with the previous interactions.
Was it intentional? Could this be a prelude for more? Are there other actual or past related behaviours?
Interesting, yes.

But is what is known compatible with a loyal partnership? IMO, no.

So I would end it and (if the relationship is also a marriage), divorce.
Cos what is known, besides what is conjectural.

Soooooooooo....is there some merit in a polygraph for an EX????
May be, but I wouldn´t.

Because it cross the line of trust? Not mainly.
But cos trust was already enough tested and wheigted false.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone.


And IMO If he really believes that what she did was "no more" than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone.
For enough reasons in my view.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> And IMO If he really believes that what she did was "no more" than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone.
> For enough reasons in my view.


I also tend to take a hard line against cheating. If my husband doesn’t want me any more he is free to go at any time. I’m no one’s consolation prize, some things are worse than being alone. Being humiliated every day would be miserable.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I also tend to take a hard line against cheating. If my husband doesn’t want me any more he is free to go at any time. I’m no one’s consolation prize, some things are worse than being alone. Being humiliated every day would be miserable.


This time for the same reasons, I agree with you.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> My opinion shouldn't bother others, but apparently it does....


I doubt that others got bothered by your opinion.
The most they are thinking is that they would be dissapointed on themselves if they once thought like you do now.
The right to think, feel, say and do is a must. But as the world is not made of only thoughts, that right only validates itself.

Those others may also dissagree with your opinion and say it, what shouldn't bother you, but apparently it does....


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

As far as trust goes, she's already broken that. Doing so also plants the seed of suspicion. There was a series of betrayals. The kiss and every action that lead to it. I would contact the friend she was out with for her version of events to compare. She might embellish but she won't likely minimize. Somewhere between both stories, lies the truth.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I respectfully disagree that a polygraph would restore trust, or that a DNA test would help with anything. I believe you either trust someone or you don’t. If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone. No matter what my husband did, I would never ask my H for a polygraph to “prove” he was being honest and expect him to stay with me. If he did, I wouldn’t respect him. If he asked me for a polygraph or a DNA test, I would give him both, prove that I’m not lying, and then I would immediately divorce him. I don’t think a marriage where one person is actively not trusting of the other is healthy, nor can I imagine the misery of having to wonder all the time if your spouse is lying. But that is just my perspective. If she’s telling him it was just a kiss, IMHO he has two choices: believe her, tell her how angry and hurt he is and that she will have to give him time to trust again, and then truly forgive her, or leave because he doesn’t trust her any more.
> 
> Of course, I would never keep a huge secret like that for two years, so my morals and ideals are totally different from the wife of the OP. I’m just so sorry this happened to him, I’m sure he’s broken hearted.


you can not compare the two.

You did not kiss a guy (and maybe more) and hide it from your husband.
it you DID do that, it would be within your husbands rights to demand a polygraph, and you had better be willing to do that heavy lifting to GAIN BACK HIS TRUST.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lots of men that come here don’t want to know the truth. I don’t think OP does.
He’s said he won’t talk to the wife’s gf.
That is the thinking of a man who wants to ignore all this, “forgive her”, and move on.

The thing is, does his wife want him to think so little of himself that he’s fine to go forward and not dig for the truth? So eager to stay with her he would rather not know the truth?
That won’t bode well for his wife’s respect for him.
She EXPECTS him to go bananas. He’s not. He’s being weak. She won’t like that at all. Once respect is gone, the marriage soon follows.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> you can not compare the two.
> 
> You did not kiss a guy (and maybe more) and hide it from your husband.
> it you DID do that, it would be within your husbands rights to demand a polygraph, and you had better be willing to do that heavy lifting to GAIN BACK HIS TRUST.


Well the truth is, if I did something like that, I would expect him to leave me. He is a good man, a loving, faithful husband and a wonderful father. If I did something like that, I don’t deserve him. There’s not enough groveling to make up for something like that. He can and should do better.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Lots of men that come here don’t want to know the truth. I don’t think OP does.
> He’s said he won’t talk to the wife’s gf.
> That is the thinking of a man who wants to ignore all this, “forgive her”, and move on.
> 
> ...


Very important concept.... she gets away with it and potentially much more than she admitted to because he didn't ask, and she starts to realize that she can run all over him, and then she proceeds to. I think this response is much more of a natural / ingrained response than a conscious one.

Being a pushover is not attractive.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I respectfully disagree that a polygraph would restore trust, or that a DNA test would help with anything. I believe you either trust someone or you don’t. If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone. No matter what my husband did, I would never ask my H for a polygraph to “prove” he was being honest and expect him to stay with me. If he did, I wouldn’t respect him. If he asked me for a polygraph or a DNA test, I would give him both, prove that I’m not lying, and then I would immediately divorce him. I don’t think a marriage where one person is actively not trusting of the other is healthy, nor can I imagine the misery of having to wonder all the time if your spouse is lying. But that is just my perspective. If she’s telling him it was just a kiss, IMHO he has two choices: believe her, tell her how angry and hurt he is and that she will have to give him time to trust again, and then truly forgive her, or leave because he doesn’t trust her any more.
> 
> Of course, I would never keep a huge secret like that for two years, so my morals and ideals are totally different from the wife of the OP. I’m just so sorry this happened to him, I’m sure he’s broken hearted.





TexasMom1216 said:


> I respectfully disagree that a polygraph would restore trust, or that a DNA test would help with anything. I believe you either trust someone or you don’t. If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone. No matter what my husband did, I would never ask my H for a polygraph to “prove” he was being honest and expect him to stay with me. If he did, I wouldn’t respect him. If he asked me for a polygraph or a DNA test, I would give him both, prove that I’m not lying, and then I would immediately divorce him. I don’t think a marriage where one person is actively not trusting of the other is healthy, nor can I imagine the misery of having to wonder all the time if your spouse is lying. But that is just my perspective. If she’s telling him it was just a kiss, IMHO he has two choices: believe her, tell her how angry and hurt he is and that she will have to give him time to trust again, and then truly forgive her, or leave because he doesn’t trust her any more.
> 
> Of course, I would never keep a huge secret like that for two years, so my morals and ideals are totally different from the wife of the OP. I’m just so sorry this happened to him, I’m sure he’s broken hearted.


I didn’t say a polygraph would restore trust, I said it could help restore it. There is always a chance she is telling the truth about that night, but since she’s a proven cheater and liar, he can’t just take her word anymore. Trust is earned, she broke it, but she may be able to earn it back, that’s up to OP. The dna test is to show her the seriousness of her actions, actions like her’s must have consequences. He could divorce her, a lot of people would, but I don’t think he wants to go that route. You and I obviously disagree, it doesn’t mean we’re both right or wrong.


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## RickySpanish_4ever (10 mo ago)

I'm going to translate some "Cheater-ese" language for you:


“We gazed at eachother longingly at work, but NEVER touched.” = Heavy makeout sessions and oral sex on every break. She even borrowed your car for one of these sessions, and blew him when he's in your driver's seat, for the thrill of it.

“We only kissed once, and it went no further. I didn't even enjoy it.” = Oral sex, missionary sex, and doggy. In a locked closet at work, and maybe your place if she had a key. And definitely his place.

“We slept together only once and I didn't enjoy it. “ = “We screwed for years and there isn't ANY hole on my body that he ain't been inside. Even things you want to try at home but I shoot you down saying ‘no way’ but it's because I'm saving it for him and don't want to be disappointed by you.”

“I didn't enjoy it.” = “You're damn right I enjoyed cheating, that's the reason I cheated on you, stupid!”

“I didn't have an orgasm.” = “The sex was so terrible and awful, (translation= awesome), THAT'S why I kept going back to him and lying to you.”

“We had sex only that one time ever.” = “We bang daily, in your bed and car, I gave him your last beer in the fridge because he was dehydrated thirsty from banging me, and told you that I drank it but you know darn well I don't even like beer, I have a whole Victoria Secret wardrobe at his house. YOU are terrible BUT he is SO PERFECT, the only flaws he has is that he keeps losing his copy of the keys to my and your place.”

“I only cheated once 2 years ago.” = “I've been cheating on you NON STOP for 3 years, all your friends, family and coworkers know and are polite to your face but we all laugh about it when you're not around, it's hilarious.”

And the classic: “I'm not a cheater but the booze/weed/the devil made me do it.” = “I'm as accountable as a 4 year old.”


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Just thought of this( why I did not before is strange) : Have you asked your wife for the identity of the man she was kissing and with whom she danced? Seems if she felt comfortable enough kissing etc. there would have been an exchange of names. Same about the identities of the 7 other fellows. Ostensibly, they all spent considerable time together that evening.
Not sure what you could do with this info. Might be naive to think any of them would be forthcoming, but worth a shot.
Perhaps a server or bartender observed something, although with the passage of time.... memory etc.
Would your wife agree to accompany you to the two establishments to, perhaps, jog memories. Maybe an experienced PI could find and interview these folks.
Big investment and asking this of your wife will, no doubt, piss her off. I would expect to hear indignation from her. Many cheat er s employ the " best defense is an offense" technique to thwart investigation. If you encounter that, it indicates a level of discomfort with pursuit of the truth, which is somewhat incriminating.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Butforthegrace said:


> A lot of married people, at various points, catch ourselves moving toward the danger zone. A bit too much booze, elation from a party atmosphere, a club or hotel that creates a disconnect from reality, next thing you know you're a husband motorboating some woman's giant titties on a dance floor (this was me once, otherwise a quiet homebody married man), or you're a wife kissing a dude. Then you catch a glimpse of yourself in a mirror or whatever and you're like: "What the **** is wrong with me, I'm married and I love my husband/wife. Stop!" So you stop. You got close to the line, maybe dipped a big toe over the line, but quickly retreated to well behind the line.
> 
> Those little forays are normal. Most of us who do this remind ourselves how fortunate we are to be married and redouble our investment into the marriage. Most of us never disclose these instances, a little white lie of omission. Where there is no actual cheating, and where there is commitment to the marriage, this is pretty normal. The wild card here is the lunatic ex friend and her threat to blow up OP's wife's world. I think OP should move on.


So you would go into a marriage assuming that would happen, and it would be ok? These things are "normal?" I agree that we may at times notice some wrong thinking going on, a desire to taste the forbidden fruit, a brief fantasy that reaches a point where you recognize hey, wait a sec, that is WRONG! But that point should be way before any physical touch; it should occur before even an emotional attachment can begin. You realize that it's not a safe idea to go out to coffee with a guy who might have designs on you. You realize that you don't go to a bar or club without your spouse, because you know the potential for being hit on, and that's not a situation you should allow yourself to be in if you're going to be drinking. Or if you enjoy being hit on too much. Me, I have to distance myself on FB when I get PMs from women that are a bit too appreciative of some contribution I've made. It would be so easy to ask for advice from some of these FB "friends" regarding stuff in my marriage. Most of us realize you just can't do that without risk of attachment, because it seems so safe, what could become of it, she's hundreds of miles away...


Divinely Favored said:


> To those of us that will not ever get close to the line, these "little forays" are no where close to "normal". What she did is cheating and then a 2 year campaign to hide it from her spouse, another cheater tactic.


I do give her some credit for the confessions though, even if two years late and under threat of disclosure from a 3rd party. It's also possible that she's greatly relieved it's out in the open now. If I were OP, I'd be trying to gauge the extent to which that might be true... relief it's out there, something she doesn't have to hide. If so, there might be a market change in her attitude. Less guarded about things.


Mybabysgotit said:


> I didn't mean it wasn't a big deal, but it's not something I would consider getting divorced over. One time she went back to her hometown and had a girls night and I told her if she has too much fun, don't tell me.
> 
> See the beauty of living in the US is that everyone can have their own opinion, although I do see that going away here in America. My opinion shouldn't bother others, but apparently it does....hmmmm


The problem is that OP doesn't know what actually went on. If it's as the wife says, then I agree, this is not something to divorce over, and in fact, if absolutely certain that was the extent, I would express that she must be relieved to no longer have to carry this burden, how awful it must have been for her. While at the same time bringing up the lack of boundaries in the marriage that lead to it happening, including OPs part in allowing her inappropriate night out in the first place, that a spouse's birthday should be spent with their spouse.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Butforthegrace said:


> A lot of married people, at various points, catch ourselves moving toward the danger zone.


I think just you and Kenny Loggins.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think just you and Kenny Loggins.


And Rupert Holmes. And you may be onto something; it legitimizes the demise of romance within a relationship, makes it seem like a normal thing to succumb to. That may be OPs view as well. No harm, no foul because it stopped short of crossing a line that's meaningful to him (not the TAM jury). She stopped short of what happens in the songs.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m wondering if in the two years since the incident, and before OP was told——did she stop going out drinking with this “friend”?? Did she stop the girls’ night out thing?

if so, that would be a positive sign.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m wondering if in the two years since the incident, and before OP was told——did she stop going out drinking with this “friend”?? Did she stop the girls’ night out thing?
> 
> if so, that would be a positive sign.


I would like to know the answer to this too. It would make a difference in my mind if she saw the issue and tried to fix it. Not a huge difference but some.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Her story of being out to dinner with her friend and then 8 guys coming on to them and asking them to go to a club sounds like a very wild thing for a married mother of 2 to do. She’s not some single college girl, who can throw care to the wind. No her actions are more probable if they were part of a more involved betrayal. Her confession was very likely a minimization of what she did with the guy. Not necessarily that evening.

She spent her birthday on a dinner & dancing double date. That she called her husband to pick her up could be that she wasn’t yet ready to take it to the next level. There would be no doubt that she gave that guy her number or social media contact info. So the question that OP needs to make sure he finds out, is did she have a follow up date(s) ? Her friend would know about the making out but doesn’t necessarily know if anything else happened on another date?

Another angle to consider is did her ex friend see her more recently with this guy and she confessed to the prior interactions to preempt an exposure. We rarely get threads of a confession years later that doesn’t turn out to be a preempt of a more involved betrayal than was originally confessed. Usually the confession is for a betrayal that supposedly stopped long ago to then find out that it never really stopped.

I fully understand the OP being overwhelmed with this recent poop sandwich that his wife served him. She has been his girl for all of his adult life, so this is a brutal shock to the system. What man wants to know that his Wife and the mother of his kids was betraying him. I hope I’m wrong about everything and that it really was only a one time kissing and that her interactions with her ex friend’s ex husband is completely innocent. I love when we get a false alarm on TAM but unfortunately the consensus is rarely wrong. 

We are here for you to help with strategy, for you to bounce ideas off of or to just hear you vent. TAM is an invaluable service that I wish I had when a had my turn at tasting the sh!t sandwich that is adultery.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> I do give her some credit for the confessions though, even if two years late and under threat of disclosure from a 3rd party. It's also possible that she's greatly relieved it's out in the open now.


that def is a positive.
it MIGHT mean she has a conscience, this has been really bothering her for two years, and had to tell the truth.

in which case, there is a possibility that she will never do it again, and will do the heavy lifting to make the marriage work going forward.

it would have been better if the crazy friend about to out her was not the reason she finally came clean, though. that taints the above possibility....


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

A confession offered by any cheater isn't made because they want to come clean. The confession is made to get ahead of the truth because the cheater is at risk of being exposed. It is pointless to diffuse a bomb after it has gone off.

Broken trust will always remain broken.

_I am kind of like a human lie detector and I can read people very well, which is why i never liked her friend, people, well the majority of them anyhiw are very bad theae days and have no morals so its not that hard to spot ine who is morally corrupt._

I think you need to reevaluate your effectiveness as a human lie detector because the biggest lie, which you are sorting through right now, blindsided you.

Work on your boundaries and backbone too. You knew her wild friend was a terrible influence and yet you tolerated your wife spending time with her? *Going on a double date? *No offense but what did you think the outcome of this disaster would be? You really should DNA test your child as there may be one more lie that got past your lie detecting abilities.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Angusm1985 How are you? How is it going?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The sad thing is that there are a lot of people that are morally corrupt but are good at hiding it.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I'd seriously check through her phone as far back as you can. Restore all deleted messages etc. To get in a taxi with so many men, I think she knew they weren't going to just be drinking, dancing and talking. Probably not the 1st time she's done this sorry to say  I know some women who do this often. Ladies night out without their husbands, partners. They call it freedom night (freedom from husband and kids) their behaviour is wild and embarrassing throwing themselves at younger men. I hope it was just a kiss and just the one night, but to bring it up 2 years later? If she felt guilty, shame etc she would have told you that night. It seems like she told you before someone else did and that's to try minimise what actually happened. Hope I'm wrong.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

You can't rebuild trust on a foundation of lies. The OP needs to know the full scope of what he's forgiving. Like others, I believe there are more skeletons in the closet and the OP needs to know how many there are.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @Angusm1985 How are you? How is it going?


Unseen for three days. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with what folks on here have been saying.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> I have a tough time getting away from the idea that the wife gets to go out on her birthday, on her own, dinner, drinking, whatever... while the husband stays home and doesn't think twice about it. There are explicit boundaries, and there are implied boundaries. I don't think many would anticipate the need to come up with boundaries that say, you can't go out bar-hopping on your own. It would be implied in most marriages. It's not as if it was sneaky subterfuge, hey honey, I'm going to go shopping at the mall with some friends tonight, and then heads out to the bars or dancing or whatever. I think most would even have some issue if their spouse had said something like that, going to the mall with friends, and they went bowling in a co-ed group instead.
> 
> But that's not what happened. He knew she was going out to celebrate her birthday. Wouldn't most do that *with *their spouse? So the boundaries are already much looser than normal here.


I might go out to dinner on my birthday just me and my wife, then later on go out with a few of my guy friends to a restaurant bar, drink and watch the game. We wouldn't be going to a club I can tell you that, nor would we be hooking up with some strange women.

Oh and if one of my friends spotted me "motorboating" some random women I would hope they would punch me in the face.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Unseen for three days. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with what folks on here have been saying.


It's tough processing. 
He may have gotten what he wanted and now he is acting on it without needing to inform us.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I didn't mean it wasn't a big deal, but it's not something I would consider getting divorced over. One time she went back to her hometown and had a girls night and I told her if she has too much fun, don't tell me.
> 
> See the beauty of living in the US is that everyone can have their own opinion, although I do see that going away here in America. My opinion shouldn't bother others, but apparently it does....hmmmm


It's stupid to believe her story just because she says it's the truth. This is a person who lied for 2 years and is only saying anything out of threat of being exposed. It's much more reasonable and just plain wise to assume she is minimizing everything.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I respectfully disagree that a polygraph would restore trust, or that a DNA test would help with anything. I believe you either trust someone or you don’t. If he really believes that she did more than kiss some guy at a bar, then the trust is gone. No matter what my husband did, I would never ask my H for a polygraph to “prove” he was being honest and expect him to stay with me. If he did, I wouldn’t respect him. If he asked me for a polygraph or a DNA test, I would give him both, prove that I’m not lying, and then I would immediately divorce him. I don’t think a marriage where one person is actively not trusting of the other is healthy, nor can I imagine the misery of having to wonder all the time if your spouse is lying. But that is just my perspective. If she’s telling him it was just a kiss, IMHO he has two choices: believe her, tell her how angry and hurt he is and that she will have to give him time to trust again, and then truly forgive her, or leave because he doesn’t trust her any more.
> 
> Of course, I would never keep a huge secret like that for two years, so my morals and ideals are totally different from the wife of the OP. I’m just so sorry this happened to him, I’m sure he’s broken hearted.


The trust is gone already. That is what this is. The people who act like **** like this happens in their marriage and they still trust are either delusional, or white knuckling it. Nobody trust a partner after they cheat. All the post like - how do I learn to trust again are a waste of time. Let that person's car brake done one time and they are out of pocket for 2 hours and ask the spouse who was cheated on and waiting for them to get home, what's the first thing that pops in their mind? Or if they have to stay late for work for a week, what does the spoouse that was cheated on think of right away. Anyone who tells you this will not be your life, is lying to you. If you stay that is what you are signing up for.

How do you get the trust back? Unless you are delusional you don't so don't bother, and you shouldn't anyway, it's unwise. It may get a little better but the trust is gone man. Not coming back, don't waste your time trying to do the impossible. Maybe drugs and a lobotomy. 

Why are we even talking about trust.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I also tend to take a hard line against cheating. If my husband doesn’t want me any more he is free to go at any time. I’m no one’s consolation prize, some things are worse than being alone. Being humiliated every day would be miserable.


Texas, I don't agree with everything you say but I concur wholeheartedly about this.

Cheating is a deal breaker for me, always has been always will be. I divorced my first husband right away after finding out he cheated on me and I gave up a lot by divorcing, but our marriage was gone, destroyed by his cheating so I divorced him and my standard of living dropped a whole bunch, but it was worth it.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> The problem is that OP doesn't know what actually went on. If it's as the wife says, then I agree, this is not something to divorce over, and in fact, if absolutely certain that was the extent, I would express that she must be relieved to no longer have to carry this burden, how awful it must have been for her. While at the same time bringing up the lack of boundaries in the marriage that lead to it happening, including OPs part in allowing her inappropriate night out in the first place, that a spouse's birthday should be spent with their spouse.


The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Who said she went gone with him? Her husband picked her up at the club.
But since she arrived at the club in some other dude’s car, and admitted to kissing the dude, nobody including OP really knows what took place. Countless pages of stories indicate that it’s rarely “just a kiss”.

However, it’s also rare that a husband is called to a club to pick up his wife who is out with other men. It almost sounds like something more traumatic than a kiss. Nobody knows but OP’s wife and obviously the friend. I’d talk to the friend. Jmo


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

He isn’t coming back. He is a logical and successful type. He read the info … made a plan. Working the plan.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


Might as well try to verify, however.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> He isn’t coming back. He is a logical and successful type. He read the info … made a plan. Working the plan.


Wish he would post an update though. I always like to catalog results.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


If a kiss is just a kiss then why would the wife worry about what her former friend would tell her husband? If it wasn't a big deal why hide it for two years?

It was normal for you to kiss girls and not go home with them. Cool. Was this while you were single, in a relationship or were you married? Were the women you kissed single, in a relationship, married or it didn't matter?

OP's wife was married and on a double date acting like a single woman. She wasn't acting single, on a double date just for a _kiss_ or to help her friend out.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


Few opinions if any are free of some kind of own "frame".
Let´s make explicit an incomplete set of cases.

Some would not care even if their partners "went home" with someone else.
Some .would put a line in "going home" with another but not if they "only" kissed (and related) someone.
Some of the ones in the previous group would infer / suspect / find out if the line was crossed and some others would assume "the best" (kissing / flirting and all that jazz)-
AND some would not make too much effort to find out if "there was more" because what is already known (the posted scenario) is quite enough. And the benefits of details about a soon to become EX may be scarce.

Count me in the last group.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

For me, even accepting the free drinks is crossing the line.


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

Angusm1985 said:


> My wife has recently had a falling out with one of her friends. Her friend and her(my wife) have not spoken much over the past few years, but our kids are very close, so I see her friends ex and their kids every weekend. Part of the falling out my wife had with her friend, included her friend, well ex-f4iend telling every person my wife knew every bad thing she has done or said to or about anyone in the past 5 years. I thought it was pretty low of her friend to do, but that's what happened. My wife sat me down last night and began crying, telling me, "there is something I have to tell you" anyway, my wife proceeded to tell me that she, along with her friend went to Nobu in Newport Beach for her birthday and met a few guys. These guys, my wife and her friend got a taxi together to go to a local club. While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys. She said afterwards she was devastated and called me to come pick them up from the club. Anyway, I recall this night vividly and they were pretty smashed when I went to pick them up. So I guess, what's your advice? I am kind of numb to the situation because I never expected this from my wife as I have never once messed around and I have the ability, I am a 36 year old man, very well off financially and work out for about two hours every morning, very physically fit and have a pretty good personality. I am pretty humiliated by the situation, we have been married for 13 years, and together for 16 years. I have two kids 7 and 12, and besides this incident never have had an issue with my wife, as far as I know. She only told me, two years later out of fear that herex-friend would call and tell me as she moves down her list of people to inform of my wife's indescritions. I feel her friend is being insane, because the friend (f 41 years old) left her now ex-husband to travel to Spain with a 24 year old soccer coach she met at her son's soccer practice, so what's the saying those that lice in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. But I always took pride in being faithful to my wife, and I am pretty bummed out about the situation.


How are you doing?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


Only when single, and usually one you went home with. You get caught kissing another guys wife if you end up high an ass beating, that is the least one deserves.

Last time I went to club and dudes started making passes at other guys girls...led to one hell of a brawl with 2 shot and several more severely beaten.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> Only when single, and usually one you went home with. You get caught kissing another guys wife if you end up high an ass beating, that is the least one deserves.
> 
> Last time I went to club and dudes started making passes at other guys girls...led to one hell of a brawl with 2 shot and several more severely beaten.


Tell me about it, i've been in plenty of bar fights over the years for that and other stupid stuff. I remember this one girl hit me right in the face unexpectedly cause I was talking to her girlfriend. Those bull ***** get insanely jealous, much more than any guy. Good times though, wouldn't trade em for anything.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

OP appears to be gone.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Bar fights? This is a mid 30s mother of 2. I can’t picture that this is the age group that would end up in such a situation unless, she was playing cougar with a young guy looking to easily score. Not that it matters, it appear that we have another BH that is not ready to hear harsh truths. We get a lot of that. Seems like today, a lot of guys want to blame themselves, so they can more easily accept rug sweeping.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Bar fights? This is a mid 30s mother of 2. I can’t picture that this is the age group that would end up in such a situation unless, she was playing cougar with a young guy looking to easily score. Not that it matters, it appear that we have another BH that is not ready to hear harsh truths. We get a lot of that. Seems like today, a lot of guys want to blame themselves, so they can more easily accept rug sweeping.


When I was 23 I was with a 34 yr old red headed nympho divorce with a 9yr old. She damn near killed me. I met her and her BFF at a club.

Tried to loan me to her 35 yr old bestie with 2 kids. My love struck dumb ass should have known she was not serious and her BFF coming into the BR in a black teddy to ask me to go to her room that night, was not a test. 
She was trying to pass the 23 yr old F-boy to friend so she could branch out to older guys. It worked when I caught another dude at her house when she thought I could not make it over.


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Just finding yourself motorboating titties? Some type of somnambulism?


One of those nights. At a club, hooked up with some people and went to a different club, hooked up with some other people and went to a different club. Many drinks and other mood alterers along the way. Found myself dancing with some people including a woman with huge boobs barely contained in a halter top. Next thing I know I had my face in there and I was all brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

re16 said:


> OP appears to be gone.


Yup. No need to continue here.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

One last try, @Angusm1985, any updates here? What have you found out?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Butforthegrace said:


> One of those nights. At a club, hooked up with some people and went to a different club, hooked up with some other people and went to a different club. Many drinks and other mood alterers along the way. Found myself dancing with some people including a woman with huge boobs barely contained in a halter top. Next thing I know I had my face in there and I was all brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr...


Thank God you are safe.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Butforthegrace said:


> One of those nights. At a club, hooked up with some people and went to a different club, hooked up with some other people and went to a different club. Many drinks and other mood alterers along the way. Found myself dancing with some people including a woman with huge boobs barely contained in a halter top. Next thing I know I had my face in there and I was all brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr...


So what does your wife think of your motorboating activities?


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> One last try, @Angusm1985, any updates here? What have you found out?


I think we lost him. 😞 He may come back in 5 years like me. 😐


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So what does your wife think of your motorboating activities?


Everyone needs a hobby.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Megaforce said:


> Everyone needs a hobby.


Yeah and his wife's hobby maybe interviewing divorce lawyers.....


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Hopefully he comes back with some form of good news. 
Be nice to hear.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Angusm1985 said:


> While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys. She said afterwards she was devastated


Tell me, do you in your heart of hearts believe the above to be true? Be serious please. 

Lesson # 1 of the cheater manual: tell only when forced to and minimize/deny when possible. In other words, what you were told is the tip of the iceberg. At best.

Did she take a shower as soon as she got home that night? Did you guys have sex?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

@MattMatt , time to break out zombie cat


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Angusm1985 said:


> The other post was a little too long to reply to so I'll tell you the long short. She went out to dinner with her friend for her birthday, at Nobu, just her and the woman i am speaking of. While there they met a group of guys 5 or 6 that bought them drinks because it was her birthday, while eating g they told them they were going to a club. They all decided to go together, and they went to the club as a group of about 8 so I dint believe there was a double date, or that she met them for dinner, I do believe they met at dinner then went to the club afterwards. That is what she has told me anyway. They went out dancing with they guys and she ended up kissing one. So beyond that that is all she shared with me so far, until I have time to find out more I won't know more unfortunately. There is a great deal of speculation going on and most of it is from people nor really reading what I wrote but carrying g from others interpretations of what I wrote and others commented on. I don't want to have my speculation go so far off base I miss the Forrest for the trees so to speak. I am listening, but I think getting solid facts before I move forward would help.
> 
> As far as the ex-husband friend, he is going through a tough time and I told him he could come over because our daughters have been best friends since they were 2, the guy lost everything in his divorce and having his daughter over at my house has been good for my daughter, they are like aisters; they are 8 now and while I agree they come over too often now, there is no way he is of any interest to my wife, in fact, the reason my wife caught the ire of her ex best friend is because my wife was actually just giving him some hard truths about his personal situation.
> 
> Either way, it's not that I am not listening to anyone here, but the stories you have been following don't really match anything I have written, they seem to be an emulsion of all of the conversations and speculation from everyone on here


Some here really project thier own experiences, and many times I think it's extreme. I think your wife probably had too much to drink and let her guard down and kissed the guy...Maybe some groping / got caught up in the moment who knows. She knew it was wrong and called you to pick her up. What's really bad is she didn't tell you that night or the next morning. When you picked her up did she have her wedding band on ? Most guys aren't buying drinks for married women unless they are getting some type of signals to go forward . Also her friend who now hates her will probably, gladly tell you some ******** story to hurt the both of you. Her version will not be reliable and she will probably lie to hurt your wife. Of course I could be wrong and the others here who would suggest that your wife screwed all 5 guys could be right....But I dought it...The ball is in your court. Personally I would do some snooping, and see where it goes. It could very well be that what she said happened, happened exactly the way she said it did


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> I think your wife probably had too much to drink and let her guard down


Soooo... marriage vows, and romantic adherence to, are a function of how intoxicated one is nowadays? I don't get this, I must've missed the memo. This is what gets me about all these "girl's/guy's night out" charades: they put themselves in a place and time KNOWN for hooking up and, when it happens, they feel sorry for it.



> and kissed the guy...Maybe some groping / got caught up in the moment who knows.


Ya think?!



> She knew it was wrong and called you to pick her up.


That call should've happened BEFORE the kissing, not after.



> What's really bad is she didn't tell you that night or the next morning.


That's the SECOND "really bad" thing. The kissing was the first.



> When you picked her up did she have her wedding band on? Most guys aren't buying drinks for married women unless they are getting some type of signals to go forward.


THIS ^^

Most guys will never pursue someone wearing a wedding ring UNLESS she is laying it on really thick. Don't want to sound like Nostradamus but it sounds to me like the "harmless night" these hyenas are trying to put forth was really a hunting exercise gone wrong. Like that dude that wanted to see his wife had sex with another person and then, in mid coitus, decided it was a bad idea. No sh-t Sherlock! 



> Also her friend who now hates her will probably, gladly tell you some ****** story to hurt the both of you.


That is most likely the reason why she's come forward with the story: one of her friends knows what she did and they are no longer on speaking terms. Don't think for a second that it was her conscience that forced her into telling. We are talking about a cheater after all.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Angusm1985 said:


> I should clarify, their friendship is in shambles because my wife was discussing things with her friends ex-husband, while he was visiting at our house. One of their kids reported back to the friend that she was talking about her and that is why she has it out for my wife. Her friend is absolute trash, and she is trying to get back at my wife. Their friendship didn't end over the kiss, it was something recent. In fact I bet the friend would encourage her to do it.


This doesn’t change a thing. If you lay around with dogs you get up with fleas.
If your wife pals around with trash. What’s that make her?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I agree with with an admitted kiss is usually sexual.


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## Trdd (Jan 11, 2022)

Angusm1985 said:


> My wife has recently had a falling out with one of her friends. Her friend and her(my wife) have not spoken much over the past few years, but our kids are very close, so I see her friends ex and their kids every weekend. Part of the falling out my wife had with her friend, included her friend, well ex-f4iend telling every person my wife knew every bad thing she has done or said to or about anyone in the past 5 years. I thought it was pretty low of her friend to do, but that's what happened. My wife sat me down last night and began crying, telling me, "there is something I have to tell you" anyway, my wife proceeded to tell me that she, along with her friend went to Nobu in Newport Beach for her birthday and met a few guys. These guys, my wife and her friend got a taxi together to go to a local club. While at the club my wife tells me she kissed one of the guys. She said afterwards she was devastated and called me to come pick them up from the club. Anyway, I recall this night vividly and they were pretty smashed when I went to pick them up. So I guess, what's your advice? I am kind of numb to the situation because I never expected this from my wife as I have never once messed around and I have the ability, I am a 36 year old man, very well off financially and work out for about two hours every morning, very physically fit and have a pretty good personality. I am pretty humiliated by the situation, we have been married for 13 years, and together for 16 years. I have two kids 7 and 12, and besides this incident never have had an issue with my wife, as far as I know. She only told me, two years later out of fear that herex-friend would call and tell me as she moves down her list of people to inform of my wife's indescritions. I feel her friend is being insane, because the friend (f 41 years old) left her now ex-husband to travel to Spain with a 24 year old soccer coach she met at her son's soccer practice, so what's the saying those that lice in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. But I always took pride in being faithful to my wife, and I am pretty bummed out about the situation.


What everyone is saying about cheater speak is true. A kiss means more. However, there are several clear mitigating factors here. She called you for a ride. Instead she could have gone home with him and walked in to your house the next am. She did not. So I think it is 50/50 you have the truth. It is absolutely true that some people get drunk, dance with or kiss someone at a bar and do no more. And the fact she called you to get her there supports that strongly. 

However, it is also true people minimize the truth. She may have made out with him, danced all night with him, given him a bj in his car or had piv sex in the car. That's all possible too. But the phone call that night is a positive sign imo that maybe it didn't get to sex. Either way, her boundaries were horrible.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences. His wife went to a club and kissed a guy. I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same. For me, it's fairly normal to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy is a projection of your own butthurt experiences.


"The thing is, people will express opinions based on their own life experiences"
Righ.
And based on the values and criteria built by those experiences.

"I can't tell you how many times I been to clubs and just kissed different girls, as I'm sure you all did the same"
When and while single.
No one time in my life when and while in a relationship.
And I gess I´m not the only one with this view about.

"... to do kiss someone and not go home with them. For all of you to assume she went home with this guy ...
True, it happens or may happen.
The point is that kissing other than your partner (IF you have one) would be an enough dealbreaker for me.
And I gess I´m not the only one with this view about.


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