# Has your spouse cheated more than once?



## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

Has your spouse cheated more than once? 

I have read a lot of threads here about people who are going through the trauma of discovering an affair or working hard on healing and reconciling.

Anyone out there had a former WS go back in and betray you again despite working hard to move on and rebuild the marriage? There are serial cheaters out there I know. But what about the ones who seem truly remorseful and committed to remain in the marriage and keep their nose clean, but don't later on down the road. Anyone out there been through that?

How true is the old saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" I wonder? I am interested to know what the causes are for the ones who do end up doing it again and what are the statistics?

Thanks.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Mine did a lot. I could not divorce her in Germany and in the US Army at the time. My low ball est is 70 guys and girls. I see now, that was her, not me. I can look at myself and say "I did not beat her or shoot her or inject her with HIV tainted blood" but it did cross my mind.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> Mine did a lot. I could not divorce her in Germany and in the US Army at the time. My low ball est is 70 guys and girls. I see now, that was her, not me. I can look at myself and say "I did not beat her or shoot her or inject her with HIV tainted blood" but it did cross my mind.


Sorry to hear that. Do you mean 70% of guys repeat offend?

I take it you are not together? If so, did she want to break up or try to fight for the marriage? Thanks David


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

My ex wife betrayed 3 times. Tried to forgive and move on twice.

And betraying is addictive behavior. It is written about in the psychiatric community.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> My ex wife betrayed 3 times. Tried to forgive and move on twice.
> 
> And betraying is addictive behavior. It is written about in the psychiatric community.


Thanks BP.

Sorry to hear that. May I ask what the time line was between the affairs? And did she seem like she was fighting her demons to not to do it, or did she seem more like she was 'entitled' to it?

I have wondered about the addictive side of it. Is that just for people who have addictive natures?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My wife cheater for years and I buried my head in the sand so I could do what I wanted and treating her like a wh*re was just part of our marriage/sex life.

I finally confronted her 3 years ago and now going into out 23rd yr of marriage I belive she is done...if not...I'm out of here!!!!

As far as "once a cheat always a cheater", that goes along the same lines as "once a wife beater always a wife beater" and its been 7 years since I layed a hand on my wife, and I plan on keeping it that way.

So with the right tools one can change there unhealthy behaviors....the issue at hand is do they want to?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Pellegriono said:


> Thanks BP.
> 
> Sorry to hear that. May I ask what the time line was between the affairs? And did she seem like she was fighting her demons to not to do it, or did she seem more like she was 'entitled' to it?
> 
> I have wondered about the addictive side of it. Is that just for people who have addictive natures?


Her first known betrayal was at about the 14 year mark. Then 14.5 and about year 15-16. The demons she were fighting was that she was beautiful. men liked her and she liked men.

As to the addictive behavior, as I read it it's generally natural like an addiction to gambling, porn, alcohol... That does not guarantee they will betray again, but the propensity to do so is always there.

But some betrayers do it just because they want to. They don't care about their spouse or kids. They just like it.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

the guy said:


> My wife cheater for years and I buried my head in the sand so I could do what I wanted and treating her like a wh*re was just part of our marriage/sex life.
> 
> I finally confronted her 3 years ago and now going into out 23rd yr of marriage I belive she is done...if not...I'm out of here!!!!
> 
> ...


If they want to is right. I definitely have come across people who want to change either learned behavior, or addictive behavior or feelings of entitlement or what not. But I wonder what makes the ones who really really do not want to do it, literally end up caving anyways. I have seen that too - it's like they hate themselves the whole way down the slippery slope as they slide into another affair - struggling to stop falling. I think that is often addictive behavior. But why after tons of therapy and genuine love for their spouse does it happen again. Even when they are warned after alarm bells go off and ultimatums are made - some still do it. Unbelievable.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Her first known betrayal was at about the 14 year mark. Then 14.5 and about year 15-16. The demons she were fighting was that she was beautiful. men liked her and she liked men.
> 
> As to the addictive behavior, as I read it it's generally natural like an addiction to gambling, porn, alcohol... That does not guarantee they will betray again, but the propensity to do so is always there.
> 
> But some betrayers do it just because they want to. They don't care about their spouse or kids. They just like it.


What is the high they get from the affair if it is addictive behavior? Affirmation that they are lovable and desirable? The high of being desired? Are you and your wife still together?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Pellegriono said:


> What is the high they get from the affair if it is addictive behavior? Affirmation that they are lovable and desirable? The high of being desired? Are you and your wife still together?


As I understand it, for guys it's about the hunt. Men are naturally sexual predators and it's instinct. Or taking someone from another like a power trip.

For women, it's often to meet emotional needs. However, I read an article discussing women who betray and many do so because they have always been "good" and sought security. Past a certain age women feel like they need to take a risk for the first time or do something bad to overcompensate for being a 'good girl' in their life. They get a rush from the whole affair and it becomes an addiction...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its hard to compete with new love, even when it just a famtasy.

Also..in some cases since there was sexual abuse when young the only thing a messed up person who continues cheating is that without something bad in there life then its not normal.

They continue to sabatoge the good things cuase in there jacked up head they don't diserve good things...like a solid and healthy marriage/relationship with soemone.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

My EX was seen kissing a neighbor at a party. My oldest boy saw it.
She was kissing another man in the band she played in when I was on travel.
She was with my neighbor's brother
She was with another man that I know of.

I didn't know any of this until Dday and I had no idea about my son witnessing it until after we were divorced. Somehow it was my fault... (according to her)

We never R. I was forced into D. I'm not sure if I could have R given the option, so I don't know about the forever cheating...

Whatever it is, I am glad I don't have to deal with her cheating self any more but I miss my boys whenever they are with her and I'm not allowed to see them.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> As I understand it, for guys it's about the hunt. Men are naturally sexual predators and it's instinct. Or taking someone from another like a power trip.
> 
> For women, it's often to meet emotional needs. However, I read an article discussing women who betray and many do so because they have always been "good" and sought security. Past a certain age women feel like they need to take a risk for the first time or do something bad to overcompensate for being a 'good girl' in their life. They get a rush from the whole affair and it becomes an addiction...


I'd have to say this fits my EX fairly well. She got addicted to the rush and well destroyed our family in the process but that's ok to her.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> My EX was seen kissing a neighbor at a party. My oldest boy saw it.
> She was kissing another man in the band she played in when I was on travel.
> She was with my neighbor's brother
> She was with another man that I know of.
> ...



sorry to hear all that. what an ordeal. do you know what was the underlying cause for that sort serial cheating? Btw, did she have sex with them or was it solely kissing?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

My WS cheated before we got married but I honestly thought once he took those vows he would not. I was wrong :-( 

I also believe he is a serial cheater based on some things he said one morning. I found out about this one mid March. I am just sick and cannot unknow what I know, it makes me sick, physically sick. Mind movies are always there. He acts like nothing is wrong, but it is way wrong and I just want out. This skank he is with is not his first and she will not be his last no matter what she thinks.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

pollywog said:


> My WS cheated before we got married but I honestly thought once he took those vows he would not. I was wrong :-(
> 
> I also believe he is a serial cheater based on some things he said one morning. I found out about this one mid March. I am just sick and cannot unknow what I know, it makes me sick, physically sick. Mind movies are always there. He acts like nothing is wrong, but it is way wrong and I just want out. This skank he is with is not his first and she will not be his last no matter what she thinks.


Hi Pollywog, I am sorry to hear that. It's utterly devestating - I know. (I just posted my story above this). The mind movies have been playing in my head as well and my trust is totally compromised. Anyways, is there a reason you won't/can't leave him?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Pellegriono said:


> sorry to hear all that. what an ordeal. do you know what was the underlying cause for that sort serial cheating? Btw, did she have sex with them or was it solely kissing?


I don't know nor do I care to be honest. I learned that I'll never really know so I let it go. I never think about it, not once. I honestly don't care.

It isn't the physical act that bothers me. It was the absolute betrayal of trust. If anything I am loyal to a fault. I grew up in Baltimore and am a huge Steelers fan.

I believe the underlying cause was she liked getting attention. She didn't get much attention when she was younger and now people would pay attention to her and it stroked her ego. There were things about her I loved and things that I did not like. The gossiping and the need for attention I did not like at all.

She has to deal with her kids not liking her... She never dealt with my son who caught her while we were married and he has issues with her. You get caught by your own son kissing someone else while you are married to his dad. It happens on more than one occasion. You tell him to lie for you... Yeah, he is going to have issues. They are with her.

I actually was taking him to counseling, but the counselor sent her an email telling her my son's issues. She didn't like what the counselor wrote so she made me stop taking him. 

-Going back to court soon...-


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Pellegriono said:


> My issue is a loving spouse who betrayed me a long time ago is now showing signs of re-offending. We have 3 children (1 son, 2 daughters) and have been married 13 years. He cheated before we had kids. It was the darkest period of both our lives. Went thru heavy duty counceling and made it through to the otherside - better and stronger in a weird way. He has been attentive and devoted for years.
> 
> Then I caught him texting someone he knew from years ago and it was dicey stuff. I had him cut it right off. Totally set me off and I reminded him what I always say "I'll only go through that ringer once. That's it". He knows I am as serious as a heart attack. He backed way off from the woman. But now I see he is slipping a bit - I can see he has looked up her Facebook page a few times (history on our computer) and has googled her etc. All since I asked him to back off and he KNOWS that one foul move and we are done.


Google the epic fight scene with Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon. Tell him you will slap him around like Bruce did. I am sorry for you Pelligrino. Sometimes people just need a foot up their Arse to make their brain work.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Mine did, twice physically.

About a year ago, we both checked out of the marriage in different ways. He cheated, I didn't.

But during that time, from last July to March this year, I know he had two physical affairs, joined dating sites, and met up with at least half a dozen women, probably chatted with a lot more.

I lump it all in as part of one big betrayal, because if I try to process them all individually, I think I would just fall apart.

There is no excuse, but there were factors which led up to it.

Since I found out the whole truth (he only admitted to one PA in the beginning and less than half of the activity I eventually discovered), we have been trying for R. We are in MC and are looking at the factors which led to our M breaking down like it did.

It's going to be a long road. He only gets one do over. If he EVER did it again he would be toast.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> I don't know nor do I care to be honest. I learned that I'll never really know so I let it go. I never think about it, not once. I honestly don't care.
> 
> It isn't the physical act that bothers me. It was the absolute betrayal of trust. If anything I am loyal to a fault. I grew up in Baltimore and am a huge Steelers fan.
> 
> ...


That is shocking what she did with your son. Immensely immature and self-centered and irresponsible. You must hate that she has custody. I don't know how that happened but I am sure they would be 100 x's better off with you. Good luck in court. Seriously.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

Robsia said:


> Mine did, twice physically.
> 
> About a year ago, we both checked out of the marriage in different ways. He cheated, I didn't.
> 
> ...


Very sorry to hear this. It is deeply painful. Terrifying actually as you don't know the person anymore in a way. Anyways, I have been through the journey you are on now btw and it did work out for us. Like you though, my policy is 'Only once'. If he does it again - as you say, he is toast. History.

Keep working in the reasons why as I think that is key. THis is what I am trying to work out myself with my H right now who I think is slipping again....


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

the guy said:


> My wife cheater for years and I buried my head in the sand so I could do what I wanted and treating her like a wh*re was just part of our marriage/sex life.
> 
> I finally confronted her 3 years ago and now going into out 23rd yr of marriage I belive she is done...if not...I'm out of here!!!!
> 
> ...


I think a big part of it is not only wanting to, but also knowing that they HAVE TO.

When a spouse takes back a cheater after a few tears and an apology, I bet the chance of them cheating again is very high. When a spouse kicks the cheater out, and it takes the cheater a bunch of 'heavy lifting' to get their marriage back, then my guess is that the chance of re-offending goes done. I am thinking a month separation minimum for the cheater to understand that cheating won't be tolerated.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think a big part of it is not only wanting to, but also knowing that they HAVE TO.
> 
> When a spouse takes back a cheater after a few tears and an apology, I bet the chance of them cheating again is very high. When a spouse kicks the cheater out, and it takes the cheater a bunch of 'heavy lifting' to get their marriage back, then my guess is that the chance of re-offending goes done. I am thinking a month separation minimum for the cheater to understand that cheating won't be tolerated.


SadSamIAm good point. But what happens if the spouse WANTS to and knows they HAVE to (or lose the marriage - non negotiable). Yet they flirt with the slippery slope. What is the underlying driving force there?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Pellegriono said:


> SadSamIAm good point. But what happens if the spouse WANTS to and knows they HAVE to (or lose the marriage - non negotiable). Yet they flirt with the slippery slope. What is the underlying driving force there?



I think that if they know that their marriage is done if they continue to cheat, then the underlying force is that they don't love their spouse like they should.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

When betrayers are taken back, they get smarter about it and much harder to catch.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> When betrayers are taken back, they get smarter about it and much harder to catch.


I know my H has never strayed since his initial indiscretion. But right now something has changed. He is doing the right thing - gone NC. But he is researching her online and that is not letting go. It's unnerving.

SadSam that's a very good point. I would say what you said and an addictive nature would be another.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Pellegriono said:


> What is the high they get from the affair if it is addictive behavior? Affirmation that they are lovable and desirable? The high of being desired?


There are many possible causes of the high.

For some it is the power of having the secret. They know something really big and important which their spouse does not . This makes them feel powerful and superior. The spouse is a silly dolt for not knowing what is going on.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I found out last June that not only did H have an EA but had one that I had no clue about in the fall of 2009. 

I think for him it was an escape...when things are tense between us he feels like he needs that light carefree conversation....well so do I but believe me cheating to get that does not occur to me.

He did comment when I got him still making contact with his EA#2 that it was like an addiction....

Still zero excuse...give me a break I was not always happy in the marriage, still not, but have no desire to do what he did. To me you end one relationship before starting another.

This is why I am currently undecided about my 24 year old marriage..the fact that in his mind that was his only recourse bothers me...that in his mind I drove him to it...that in his mind he needed an ego boost...that in his mind it was okay what he was doing because nothing physical happened, etc. etc. etc.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I've went through about 7 DDays for physical affairs and over 20 for EA's and just plain bad behaviour on my husband's end. We're still working on the last DDay.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Yep, two coworkers that I know of. stbx/wh SWEARS they were just EAs, but it's hard to believe. The content of their texts, plus the photos they were sending him, plus the fact that he is just a straight out LIAR, leads me to believe that there was definitely some physical activity, if not with them, maybe the strippers at the club he frequented.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

somethingelse said:


> I've went through about 7 DDays for physical affairs and over 20 for EA's and just plain bad behaviour on my husband's end. We're still working on the last DDay.


Have you ever separated from him, for at least a month? To see if he really cares enough to fight for you and your relationship.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Pellegriono said:


> Sorry to hear that. Do you mean 70% of guys repeat offend?
> 
> I take it you are not together? If so, did she want to break up or try to fight for the marriage? Thanks David


No, I believe he was saying it was a "Army Wives" nightmare with 70 or so male and female affair partners. Especially while he was on assignments.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Yep, two coworkers that I know of. stbx/wh SWEARS they were just EAs, but it's hard to believe. The content of their texts, plus the photos they were sending him, plus the fact that he is just a straight out LIAR, leads me to believe that there was definitely some physical activity, if not with them, maybe the strippers at the club he frequented.


Wow, that sucks Scorched. Clearly you have had enough and moving on. Is he lying to you about it because he wants to salvage the marriage? And another question. Is this term Emotional Affair something that he was familiar with or did he learn that from MC or something?

I ask because this is new to me and I wonder how mainstream this idea is now? IE, like if my H is aware he was starting an EA with his old friend.

@SomethingElse, Again, a really sad story. I pray your DD works out this time round. If not, will you stay?

@Highwood, was the 2009 affair the first? Does your H have any other addictive tendencies? I understand where you are at. I am in a sort of similar situation. Is your H behaving now he has been caught again?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Pellegriono said:


> That is shocking what she did with your son. Immensely immature and self-centered and irresponsible. You must hate that she has custody. I don't know how that happened but I am sure they would be 100 x's better off with you. Good luck in court. Seriously.


Why is it shocking? I am not being sarcastic. I really don't know why it is shocking. I was not a perfect husband but I was loyal. I am a good provider. I told her I loved her. Yes we argued and I did not spend as much time with her as I should. I could be callous at times but all in all I was a pretty good catch. If she was willing to cheat on someone who is a decent person, then why is it shocking that she didn't care what her kids thought? I just see her as absolutely selfish so I am trying to figure out if I'm missing something.

We have joint custody. I moved. I enrolled the boys in the school in my neighborhood. They will be living with me or it will be a battle royal in court. I have no problem with it. Document, document, document.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

Thor said:


> There are many possible causes of the high.
> 
> For some it is the power of having the secret. They know something really big and important which their spouse does not . This makes them feel powerful and superior. The spouse is a silly dolt for not knowing what is going on.


Thanks Thor. That one is totally and utterly new to me. My assumption would be that they are not in a very happy relship if the secret is the high and the need to feel superior. Or is this a high even for those who are fairly happy with their spouse too?

Thanks for that.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Why is it shocking? I am not being sarcastic. I really don't know why it is shocking. I was not a perfect husband but I was loyal. I am a good provider. I told her I loved her. Yes we argued and I did not spend as much time with her as I should. I could be callous at times but all in all I was a pretty good catch. If she was willing to cheat on someone who is a decent person, then why is it shocking that she didn't care what her kids thought? I just see her as absolutely selfish so I am trying to figure out if I'm missing something.
> 
> We have joint custody. I moved. I enrolled the boys in the school in my neighborhood. They will be living with me or it will be a battle royal in court. I have no problem with it. Document, document, document.


I don't know your wife, so I can't say on a personal level why I found it shocking for her to do it. But generally speaking, I think even the most dastardly of characters usually have a maternal instinct that would try to shelter their child from deeply damaging behavior like that. But who knows. Clear it didn't shock you.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> Have you ever separated from him, for at least a month? To see if he really cares enough to fight for you and your relationship.


Yes we did have more than that time apart with him moving out. But it was a very long time ago.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Pellegriono said:


> Wow, that sucks Scorched. Clearly you have had enough and moving on. Is he lying to you about it because he wants to salvage the marriage? And another question. Is this term Emotional Affair something that he was familiar with or did he learn that from MC or something?
> 
> I ask because this is new to me and I wonder how mainstream this idea is now? IE, like if my H is aware he was starting an EA with his old friend.
> 
> ...


He lies because that is what he does. He's an addict (alcohol and porn mainly, but you can throw in gambling, spending, and anything else you care to), and that is what addicts do. They just lie. Lie to get what they want. Looking for the next "high". 

Not sure if he is familiar with the EA terminology. He has been going to counseling for his myriad issues, mainly the DUI he got and it was compulsory for him to do it if he wanted to keep his job. I don't know if he would have done it otherwise. He sure as hell never cared when I would voice my concerns about his drinking. Heck, I'd get snapped at!

We tried MC once, but I dropped it because I told the MC that I did NOT want to reconcile, and he kept pushing for it. It pissed me off when he gave us marriage re-building exercises to do, and I just didn't do them and cancelled the next session.

The notion of an EA is very mainstream now. I think I remember reading somewhere that in some states, EAs count as infidelity, so that should speak to the gravity of the situation. I think many people assuage their consciences by saying "Hey, I never touched the other person", but what they fail to realize is that it is the DECEPTION AND BETRAYAL that does the damage. *Trust is the cornerstone of ANY relationship*, whether romantic, friendship, or work. You wouldn't stay friends with someone you can't trust, you wouldn't hire someone you can't trust, why would you spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE with someone you can't trust?

I wish people understood just how rare and valuable trust is.


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## Unaware (Jan 7, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> It isn't the physical act that bothers me. It was the absolute betrayal of trust.


:iagree:

My POSX Cheated multiple times with me , then came back to me when he was engaged to the OW. He is now the OM to a MW. 
I think he falls into the Serial cheater category


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband is a knight in shining armor type. They don't change.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Pellegriono said:


> Hi Pollywog, I am sorry to hear that. It's utterly devestating - I know. (I just posted my story above this). The mind movies have been playing in my head as well and my trust is totally compromised. Anyways, is there a reason you won't/can't leave him?


Thanks. I will not leave my home because I am on the mortgage and if I leave he will not pay it. I have to maintain my credit due to my job. Also I have a huge retirement account and he wants half. I will have to give him half of it by law, but I want to sell the home. I can't really believe he cheats then can get half my retirement, but it is the law in this state. I just want out, whether we divorce or not, I am tired of sharing a house with him. He will not leave either because he does not "want to give up what he worked hard for". I take that to mean a house with no equity, who knows. Putting the house on the market soon so we will have to move out when/if sold. He is in the guest room and we are basically just sharing the house. I cannot understand why he just don't go on to her house if he wants her so bad. She wants him, I don't anymore so he is free to leave at anytime.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Thanks. I will not leave my home because I am on the mortgage and if I leave he will not pay it. I have to maintain my credit due to my job. Also I have a huge retirement account and he wants half. I will have to give him half of it by law, but I want to sell the home. I can't really believe he cheats then can get half my retirement, but it is the law in this state. I just want out, whether we divorce or not, I am tired of sharing a house with him. He will not leave either because he does not "want to give up what he worked hard for". I take that to mean a house with no equity, who knows. Putting the house on the market soon so we will have to move out when/if sold. He is in the guest room and we are basically just sharing the house. I cannot understand why he just don't go on to her house if he wants her so bad. She wants him, I don't anymore so he is free to leave at anytime.


Cause he's a selfish prick that deserves to be curb stomped. Sorry you're going through all this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Thanks. I will not leave my home because I am on the mortgage and if I leave he will not pay it. I have to maintain my credit due to my job. Also I have a huge retirement account and he wants half. I will have to give him half of it by law, but I want to sell the home. I can't really believe he cheats then can get half my retirement, but it is the law in this state. I just want out, whether we divorce or not, I am tired of sharing a house with him. He will not leave either because he does not "want to give up what he worked hard for". I take that to mean a house with no equity, who knows. Putting the house on the market soon so we will have to move out when/if sold. He is in the guest room and we are basically just sharing the house. I cannot understand why he just don't go on to her house if he wants her so bad. She wants him, I don't anymore so he is free to leave at anytime.


God, what an utterly diabolical man. I hope someone is able to help you find a way around this? Not sure what state you are in, but that sounds extremely unfair. This makes me cross and what an arsehole. I hope something breaks for you. You definitely deserve it.


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## MOOSEY (Apr 24, 2013)

My Husband definatley comes under the serial cheater heading. I met him when I was young and naieve at 18 years old. He was married at the time. (22 years later I'm getting my punishment).

He told me the whole story of how they were unhappy and living like brother & sister & I bought it!! She found out & kicked him out, we got married & had 2 kids. 

11 years in and he had an affair with one of my closest friends. Kids were small, I was scared and I rug swept everything.

10 more years and I discovered a long PA with his work collegue.
I spoke to her & he told her all the same things he told me 22 years ago, which was a pack of lies. She finished it, and I had had enough also and asked him to leave.

He now is concentrating all his efforts on begging me to take him back. But I am never going back there.

I wish I had never met him.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

pollywog said:


> Thanks. I will not leave my home because I am on the mortgage and if I leave he will not pay it. I have to maintain my credit due to my job. Also I have a huge retirement account and he wants half. I will have to give him half of it by law, but I want to sell the home. I can't really believe he cheats then can get half my retirement, but it is the law in this state. I just want out, whether we divorce or not, I am tired of sharing a house with him. He will not leave either because he does not "want to give up what he worked hard for". I take that to mean a house with no equity, who knows. Putting the house on the market soon so we will have to move out when/if sold. He is in the guest room and we are basically just sharing the house. I cannot understand why he just don't go on to her house if he wants her so bad. She wants him, I don't anymore so he is free to leave at anytime.


I know this is 'unfair'. This was my exact situation. My EX cheated. I was the one working. She got half my retirement, bought her out of the house, pay alimony... She got the kids half the time because she was a SAHM. There were absolutely no consequences for her adultery. The money and the other things, I could care less about. It is the law and it's just not a fight you will win. The missed time I am forced away from my children boils my blood inside. Life is not fair. It never was.

Your husband isn't leaving because he made a huge mistake, knows it and can't or won't admit it. I think he just found out how brown the grass on the other side is...


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Pellegriono said:


> God, what an utterly diabolical man. I hope someone is able to help you find a way around this? Not sure what state you are in, but that sounds extremely unfair. This makes me cross and what an arsehole. I hope something breaks for you. You definitely deserve it.


No way around it unless I can get him to agree to take less. But really why would he when he knows he can get an equal share? The skank OW is guiding him along with what to do/say. We live in Florida, no fault divorce and adultery does not count for anything. Only thing is any money he has spent on the affair, he has to give me half. I have no way of knowing how much he spent. He used cash that he got elsewhere from his paycheck or credit card. 

I have talked to 4 attorneys and there is nothing I can do but give him half. None of the attorneys can believe he has the nerve to ask for half my retirement after what he has done. I really think she is pushing him to get it because it is not like him at all. But then I did not think cheating was like him either.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

pollywog said:


> None of the attorneys can believe he has the nerve to ask for half my retirement after what he has done..........But then I did not think cheating was like him either.


Don't assume its OW guiding him. Someone who cheats shows how selfish they can be. This is an absolutely selfish move on his part.

It's his choice to go after your retirement. He could have said no.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> I know this is 'unfair'. This was my exact situation. My EX cheated. I was the one working. She got half my retirement, bought her out of the house, pay alimony... She got the kids half the time because she was a SAHM. There were absolutely no consequences for her adultery. The money and the other things, I could care less about. It is the law and it's just not a fight you will win. The missed time I am forced away from my children boils my blood inside. Life is not fair. It never was.
> 
> *You husband isn't leaving because he made a huge mistake, knows it and can't or won't admit it. I think he just found out how brown the grass on the other side is.*..


No they are making plans for the future. I read the emails or some of the plans are in emails, most are done via phone calls or texts. He does not want to leave because he thinks if he does he gives up his right to claim his half. Not sure where he got that from, but that is what he thinks. I just want to sell the house, event ho I actually wanted to keep it, but he would not give it up and he may not agree to sell it either. If he don't then I will talk to my employer, explain why there is going to be a foreclosure and hope/pray they will let me stay. We have no debt except for mortgage, we have nearly two of everything or enough to split equally anyway of household stuff. Our vehicles are older but paid for and we each have one in our name only. We have no joint anything except home and a joint checking/savings account. I told hm to take all that was there, but that is not enough apparently. 

It is bad enough he cheats on me, more than likely multiple times and I have to give him near $100K or more to get free of him - it is wrong and the law needs to be changed. I have even thought of going out of the country for a couple years, but figured I would spend it living some where else. No way I can get around it, if I spend it, then counted as marital property. Also my dog is property in this state and we may have to share joint custody of her. My daughter had to when she divorced her husband, he got visitation with her two. She offered for him to take one and her the other, but that was the only thing he could control her over because she walked away with nothing but her clothes and she had to fight for those and the dogs. 

Stupid controlling selfish people. Had he just told me he wanted a divorce and left, I would not be upset over the money, but because he has cheated and rubbed my face in it then I have to pay him - just livid.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Have you ever separated from him, for at least a month? To see if he really cares enough to fight for you and your relationship.


I have separated from him. It was only for a week and a half though. There were a lot of legal things about our kids going on, and I've never been broken up with him like that before. So it was really hard for me to really grasp being divorced to him. 

Also, he was making it really hard for me to spend time away from him. And he chased me. Either way, we decided on reconciliation, and here I am today.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Been married 31 yrs....started dating at 14 and 18yr old...got married at 18 and 22yrs old. We basically grew up together...which was probably one of our root issues....he always felt no matter what he did I would always be there for him. The first 20 yrs consisted of a PA, multiple EA's, a heavy porn addiction, on line dating sites, etc...lots of Ddays. Hubby was addicted to the thrill, and was escalating the high he got from the cheating and porn ....ultimately to fill a whole he felt inside himself. 

I will say this and I am sure I will get slammed for it. As much as it was my hubbys fault for what happened on our marriage...I am also guilty for screwing up and not handling some things the way I should have. I compounded the issues. In actuality once I made the steps to fix me....he was able to make the steps to fix himself. We are 10 years in "R"... happier today than we ever have been. We cherish every day we get together and realize how precious what we have is now. Wish we had known then what we know now....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

DavidWYoung said:


> Mine did a lot. I could not divorce her in Germany and in the US Army at the time. My low ball est is 70 guys and girls. I see now, that was her, not me. I can look at myself and say "I did not beat her or shoot her or inject her with HIV tainted blood" but it did cross my mind.


Low ball estimate is 70!??? Yeesh and ouch. Hope you are doing better now brother.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Don't assume its OW guiding him. Someone who cheats shows how selfish they can be. This is an absolutely selfish move on his part.
> 
> It's his choice to go after your retirement. He could have said no.


I have seen an email where she tells him he is entitled to half of everything and that they can use the $$ to fund their retirement plans. I guess she has spent her half that she got from her cheating ex husband - go figure. I just think she is still pushing him to go for half. He told me there was more to "split" than house stuff and he wanted his half.

But you are right, he can say no and move on.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

mineforever said:


> Been married 31 yrs....started dating at 14 and 18yr old...got married at 18 and 22yrs old. We basically grew up together...which was probably one of our root issues....he always felt no matter what he did I would always be there for him. The first 20 yrs consisted of a PA, multiple EA's, a heavy porn addiction, on line dating sites, etc...lots of Ddays. Hubby was addicted to the thrill, and was escalating the high he got from the cheating and porn ....ultimately to fill a whole he felt inside himself.
> 
> I will say this and I am sure I will get slammed for it. As much as it was my hubbys fault for what happened on our marriage...I am also guilty for screwing up and not handling some things the way I should have. I compounded the issues. In actuality once I made the steps to fix me....he was able to make the steps to fix himself. We are 10 years in "R"... happier today than we ever have been. We cherish every day we get together and realize how precious what we have is now. Wish we had known then what we know now....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think you will get slammed. I could have done things better too. However, I really didn't know what I was supposed to do. I am glad you are reconciling and doing well.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

pollywog said:


> I have seen an email where she tells him he is entitled to half of everything and that they can use the $$ to fund their retirement plans. I guess she has spent her half that she got from her cheating ex husband - go figure. I just think she is still pushing him to go for half. He told me there was more to "split" than house stuff and he wanted his half.
> 
> But you are right, he can say no and move on.


He could have said no. OW is a POS but he was your H, he could have just walked away. The grass is not greener. There is no spoon. I know first hand how bad you got screwed. Honestly though, it's only money. (money that they didn't ever work for and really don't deserve because they are cheating POS, but just money none the less  )


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I had a couple Ddays myself and a few months of false R. There were quite a number of different EA partners and 1 PA partner. 


Your partner is supposed to be yours, by choice. But when they choose someone else so brashly, without any care for you at all, and over and over with different people it confirms this: Their needs to them are more important no matter the cost to you. Your potential pain is inconsequential to them. The excuse is "I wasn't thinking" or "I had you compartmentalized into a box". To be honest, the crap makes even the words on my screen stink. They were thinking: "I need to meet OM/OW at 5" They were thinking "I need to password protect my phone so no one knows". They didn't care about hurting you or they wouldn't have done it in the first place. They were worried about getting caught. 

And they say they put the BS in a box, but really they put them in a can. (The garbage can.)

It's another sign of poor judgement that these people who are willing to sleep with married spouses are by default less desirable. That goes unnoticed by the WS.

I've read many stories in this thread and wonder "how on earth did they put up with that?" Then I realize many must think the same thing about me.

I think though serial cheaters are serial for very good reason, and that it tends to be a pattern in them.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> He could have said no. OW is a POS but he was your H, he could have just walked away. The grass is not greener. There is no spoon. I know first hand how bad you got screwed. Honestly though, it's only money. (money that they didn't ever work for and really don't deserve because they are cheating POS, but just money none the less  )


It is just money, but money that was set aside for retirement. My boss/his wife puts an extra amount into an investment account for me each year, as a gift to me, not my spouse - me. Although it was to be used for "our" retirement I do not want it being used for theirs. I understand money is not everything, but in this case he should not be entitled to any of the investment account, only my 401K. Florida law says he is entitled  regardless of what he has done. He is just a low down dirty lying cheating dog and she has no morals at all.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

pollywog said:


> It is just money, but money that was set aside for retirement. My boss/his wife puts an extra amount into an investment account for me each year, as a gift to me, not my spouse - me. Although it was to be used for "our" retirement I do not want it being used for theirs. I understand money is not everything, but in this case he should not be entitled to any of the investment account, only my 401K. Florida law says he is entitled  regardless of what he has done. He is just a low down dirty lying cheating dog and she has no morals at all.



I get it. I gave my EX half of my 401k, then I took a loan out on the rest to buy her out of the house because she couldn't but me out. I did it so my kids could grow up in the only house they knew. My EX then starts banging my next door neighbor so I had to move. I'm still paying back the 401k. I pay her rent with my CS and I have to pay her alimony because she cheated and wanted to screw my other neighbor's brother. It's only money. None of my kids are sick. So our dreams got crushed, I guess we better go out and make some new dreams.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Pellegriono said:


> Thanks Thor. That one is totally and utterly new to me. My assumption would be that they are not in a very happy relship if the secret is the high and the need to feel superior. Or is this a high even for those who are fairly happy with their spouse too?
> 
> Thanks for that.


For some people they keep big big secrets. For example, a child sex abuse victim learns at a very young age to stfu and keep the information secret from everyone. It is to their immediate advantage to do so. This can be generalized to other items which they may benefit by not revealing. Sometimes called "hiding behavior", it is self protective in their mind, but it is also manipulative of other people.

Controlling information is a way to control events, and to control people.

So there is the connection. There is a thrill of having power when keeping a secret. The bigger and the more harmful the secret, the bigger the thrill.


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## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

Thor said:


> For some people they keep big big secrets. For example, a child sex abuse victim learns at a very young age to stfu and keep the information secret from everyone. It is to their immediate advantage to do so. This can be generalized to other items which they may benefit by not revealing. Sometimes called "hiding behavior", it is self protective in their mind, but it is also manipulative of other people.
> 
> Controlling information is a way to control events, and to control people.
> 
> So there is the connection. There is a thrill of having power when keeping a secret. The bigger and the more harmful the secret, the bigger the thrill.


This helps explain my H many mini-EAs over the years which finally lead up to a 1 1/2 yr EA and a short term E/PA after that. We've been together almost 23 years, M 21 next month and I can tell you that while we were dating he was flirting and getting attention from other girls behind my back. He would tell me that so and so hit on him but I didn't think much of it until after we were M. I found out a lot of things he had lied about...some minor, some not 

Throughout our M he would invest time into trying to get women to like him to the point they would make a pass at him or ask him out and then he would shut them down by telling them he was married (never wore his wedding ring for the first 19yrs), or would stop talking to them. I would have to say this happened about a dozen times that I can think of...going back over when he told me about someone liking him. He of course never considered it cheating because it never went physical:scratchhead:

Then a few years ago, he spent about a year and a half in an EA with someone. They would show up at the same work related events and spend time together. They would talk everyday on the phone or email and saw each other at least once a week. I remember him telling me that she was his work wife and I told him that she could have him. Rumors started that she was cheating with a married man and this scared him. He claims he finally ended it when she tried to kiss him but it turns out she was having a PA with one of his close friends for about 3 years:rofl:

He had several more mini-EA after that until the PA in 2011 that lasted only 3 months. He still claims that no sex took place with the PA, just kissing and heavy petting Yeah, right.

Now at the ripe old age of 44, he's finally all grown up and doing right by me and our M


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Read an email she sent last night. She is responding to a convo they had. Seems he has talked to her about finances and they plan to merge their money. They have a limited time set, not sure what that means, but I take it he is waiting until after my bday to leave. She said she would get rid of her cat, he hates cats, so I guess he does plan to leave after all even tho he told me he was not. 

Going to talk tonight or tomorrow about settlement and hoping he goes on and leaves.


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## kruppmart (May 10, 2012)

My STBXW cheated on her first husband multiple times, got pregnant from one of the OM's and aborted a day before they closed on a new house. I found out after I split with her.

When we got married, it took her only 3 months into the marriage to cheat on me. I gave her a second chance. 3 1/2 years later she cheated again on me, at least with one other guy.

I believe she inherited her infidelity from her family. Her father was a serial cheater, and fathered even a child outside his marriage. Her mom apparently accepted his behaviour, so the ground was set.

She is now an area known [email protected] Bad for her children, but I do not care (there are not mine). Divorce should be final by end of September.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I misunderstood him one morning when we had a round of words. I thought he meant she was not the only one, but he meant he had sex with her more than once. I thought serial cheater, but guessing I was wrong on that one. 

He is still a lying cheater tho.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<I don't think you will get slammed. I could have done things better too. However, I really didn't know what I was supposed to do. I am glad you are reconciling and doing well.>>

We all could, or most of us, i think, so no slamming here if you are happy in your choices. My H and I just celebrated our 34th anniversary. He has cheated on me 3 times in an EA/online/long distance affair. The first time was 16 years ago the 2nd & 3rd were a year apart starting in Nov 2011, with the same OW. They stopped for 7-8 months and started up again for 5 months before I caught on, again.
When I first came on here I got advice about what to do to stop the A and reconcile, but I also had some telling me to file for divorce immediately. This was after one post by me.

I have given him his last chance, and he knows it, and it's so far, so good. He is rebuilding my trust in him a little at a time by doing what he promised, so , time will tell.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

kruppmart said:


> When we got married, it took her only 3 months into the marriage to cheat on me. I gave her a second chance.


My WW one-upped yours ... she cheated on me two weeks after taking my ring. 

Second chance, very slim second chance.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

PamJ said:


> <<I don't think you will get slammed. I could have done things better too. However, I really didn't know what I was supposed to do. I am glad you are reconciling and doing well.>>
> 
> We all could, or most of us, i think, so no slamming here if you are happy in your choices. My H and I just celebrated our 34th anniversary. He has cheated on me 3 times in an EA/online/long distance affair. The first time was 16 years ago the 2nd & 3rd were a year apart starting in Nov 2011, with the same OW. They stopped for 7-8 months and started up again for 5 months before I caught on, again.
> When I first came on here I got advice about what to do to stop the A and reconcile, but I also had some telling me to file for divorce immediately. This was after one post by me.
> ...



Hi Pam

Sorry to hear that, but sounds like you are working toward making things work. I hope he doesn't betray your trust again. What happened to the OW? Did you know her? And has he completely cut off all ties with her at this point?


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

Thor said:


> For some people they keep big big secrets. For example, a child sex abuse victim learns at a very young age to stfu and keep the information secret from everyone. It is to their immediate advantage to do so. This can be generalized to other items which they may benefit by not revealing. Sometimes called "hiding behavior", it is self protective in their mind, but it is also manipulative of other people.
> 
> Controlling information is a way to control events, and to control people.
> 
> So there is the connection. There is a thrill of having power when keeping a secret. The bigger and the more harmful the secret, the bigger the thrill.



Why is it to the immediate advantage of a sexually abused child to not tell anyone they are being abused? I would think it is most definitely NOT in their immediate advantage to tell someone who can help prevent it happening again?


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<Sorry to hear that, but sounds like you are working toward making things work. I hope he doesn't betray your trust again. What happened to the OW? Did you know her? And has he completely cut off all ties with her at this point?>>

The OW is far away, 1000 miles, as this was a LD EA. I do not know her personally, but I have plenty of facts about her now. Contact info, address, phone etc her H's name but no cell# for him. I have a clue as to his business's name but not sure. He is self employed and almost off the grid that I can see. I have not contacted him. I will make these attempts if she bothers to contact my H again. She seemed eager for none of this to happen. She contacted him once after D Day to accuse him, or me, I guess, of giving her cell# to someone who was making obscene calls to her. This is beyond absurd but she said (texted) it was a blocked # and started happening after they ended their A. My H told me immediately, showed me her text and then texted back (showed me this too) that it was not him, or me, and not to contact him again, which she hasn't.

Other than this, all quiet on the western front, and still so far, so good, for us. We are making an effort to not get caught up in little disagreements that turn into big ones. We try and settle everything before the end of the night. We are going out more for fun stuff, taking walks and bike rides, talking more etc. trying to enjoy life and each other's company. For a long time we did not do much of this. He tells me he loves me every day, that he will never hurt me again and I am all he wants for the rest of his life. Time will tell.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Pellegriono said:


> Why is it to the immediate advantage of a sexually abused child to not tell anyone they are being abused? I would think it is most definitely NOT in their immediate advantage to tell someone who can help prevent it happening again?


Very frequently another adult squashes the child's allegations. Sometimes they tell the child it did not happen or that the child should shut up because it will hurt the family for this to come out. Sometimes the adult rains verbal and/or emotional abuse on the child!!! 

Also the perp can threaten the child with all kinds of evil if the child reveals the abuse.

Furthermore, many times the people around the child will shun the child. And then once a teen it can become a social stigma and affect their dating.

I know if my child told me she was abused I would probably end the ability of the abuser to continue. But that is not a frequent response, and so many children learn it is safer for them to just stfu and hide the fact of the abuse.


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

PamJ said:


> <<Sorry to hear that, but sounds like you are working toward making things work. I hope he doesn't betray your trust again. What happened to the OW? Did you know her? And has he completely cut off all ties with her at this point?>>
> 
> The OW is far away, 1000 miles, as this was a LD EA. I do not know her personally, but I have plenty of facts about her now. Contact info, address, phone etc her H's name but no cell# for him. I have a clue as to his business's name but not sure. He is self employed and almost off the grid that I can see. I have not contacted him. I will make these attempts if she bothers to contact my H again. She seemed eager for none of this to happen. She contacted him once after D Day to accuse him, or me, I guess, of giving her cell# to someone who was making obscene calls to her. This is beyond absurd but she said (texted) it was a blocked # and started happening after they ended their A. My H told me immediately, showed me her text and then texted back (showed me this too) that it was not him, or me, and not to contact him again, which she hasn't.
> 
> Other than this, all quiet on the western front, and still so far, so good, for us. We are making an effort to not get caught up in little disagreements that turn into big ones. We try and settle everything before the end of the night. We are going out more for fun stuff, taking walks and bike rides, talking more etc. trying to enjoy life and each other's company. For a long time we did not do much of this. He tells me he loves me every day, that he will never hurt me again and I am all he wants for the rest of his life. Time will tell.


Good for you Pam and your husband. It sounds like you have a bright future. I know it's a matter of time will tell, but so far so good! :smthumbup:


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## Pellegriono (Jul 4, 2013)

Thor said:


> Very frequently another adult squashes the child's allegations. Sometimes they tell the child it did not happen or that the child should shut up because it will hurt the family for this to come out. Sometimes the adult rains verbal and/or emotional abuse on the child!!!
> 
> Also the perp can threaten the child with all kinds of evil if the child reveals the abuse.
> 
> ...


Oh God this made me feel sick. I believe it all and it's just hideous. I imagine the amount of covered up abuse in our midst is mind boggling. Ugh. Thanks for explaining Thor.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> My ex wife betrayed 3 times. Tried to forgive and move on twice.
> 
> And betraying is addictive behavior. It is written about in the psychiatric community.


Gulp! Fool me once, fool me once....fragile Recon underway, no second chances, not ever. If it happens and it's the same dude then I'm going to the slammer. I sh!t you not!


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> I've went through about 7 DDays for physical affairs and over 20 for EA's and just plain bad behaviour on my husband's end. We're still working on the last DDay.


Wow, you've got some steely hide. I couldn't take that, or anything like that. Phew - genuinely, good luck.


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## Unaware (Jan 7, 2013)

Pellegriono said:


> Oh God this made me feel sick. I believe it all and it's just hideous. I imagine the amount of covered up abuse in our midst is mind boggling. Ugh. Thanks for explaining Thor.


It makes me feel sick too, and It feeds into itself,


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Thor said:


> Very frequently another adult squashes the child's allegations. Sometimes they tell the child it did not happen or that the child should shut up because it will hurt the family for this to come out. Sometimes the adult rains verbal and/or emotional abuse on the child!!!
> 
> Also the perp can threaten the child with all kinds of evil if the child reveals the abuse.
> 
> ...



This happened to my girlfriend. It is probably the main cause of her BPD which she has to counsel for for a long long time... Thank you SH1TTY parents!


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

My wife had 2 PA's and 3 EA's that I found out about. I knew about each one and took her back each time. Heard the "once a cheater always a cheater" but not sure. I wonder if my wife just didn't use me for what little money I had along with the stability I provided. She say's she doesn't love me like a wife should or what I deservered. Thought that was a line like "I love you but not in love with you". My problem is if she had just a little respect for me she would have just told me she doesn't love me and move on. I find out about the other guy and then she tells me these things after the damage is done. Why can't they just leave??


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My wife in the order they happened:
1 EA that she wanted to go PA; crush sort. 2002-2003. I started to suspect but couldn't find evidence; She learned to be sneaky.
1 EA that was about attention and sexual expression. 2004
1 PA? (OW and that was about attention and sexual expression)... 2004 Various other boundary crossing relationships during this time too.

Then more change in her where sexual expression started becoming ‘her self worth’. Should note we had a couple family traumas late 2003 that threw a big wedge between us which resulted in a total change in behavior and our dynamic.

I believe she's hidden a lot even still from 2004 on up. So the rest is just sort of what she's admitted. She's kept it more on her and how she thought back then, so I think these are probably just a sampling to help me understand.

1 ??PA/ONS?? She accepted a ride and attention which led to kissing; It was expected. 2005
1 EA that led to a LTPA... again attention and expressing ‘why he would want me’ as a sexual value she placed on herself. 2007-2009
1 ONS... Felt coerced (old rape trauma triggered)...2008 

Changed again; The trigger added confusion & understanding that because she saw her worth as sexual and how she was, he did too. It made it a dirty thing with self-loathing and recognition she was being used just for sex (including the LTPA)

1 EA... attention and “he gets me”. Semi-long distance because she knew it’d be safer and could talk to him instead of her LTPA; “Too help me get over (LTPA).” Would have gone PA if I didn’t catch it in the early throws. It’s also when she started slipping up and stopped being as careful about hiding it. 2009 is when I found out.

Will she repeat? Three years and I haven’t seen or felt anything to trigger my gut. It’s about the attention, self-worth (and her thoughts where that comes from (outside validation)) with a vindictive streak against me for ‘why’ she felt like that. And now she’s completely ashamed how she found attention and changed that and has a much, much better understanding of me and how I just am not like her and how truly awful it is to set your value on traits you really don’t want to be valued alone for. 

I see her slip occasionally back into that sort of thinking. But I learned too. Confront fast and hard before it takes root again by reminding her of where it goes from there. Unpleasant stuff, but she loathes how dumb she used to handle things internally and how she shattered herself and everything she used to stand for. Smart, witty, sexual, funny, insightful, good wife in a bad situation, a good person... all those things she wanted to be. Looking back now she see’s the opposite in her actions. They are the actions of a terrible person doing terrible things to herself and the ones she loved most. 

For what? Not one positive thing came out of this for her. Only a wake of destruction that continues to churn inside because she can’t fix this. A husband who loves and respects her less, kids who she see’s some of those traits she passed along to, a family that ‘rolls their eyes’ if she has any advice, friends that she needs to consider their motives, co-workers that she won’t get close to... more alone than she ever was before. Sad really.... And hindsight is terrible for her; She should have been able to predict it all and knows she did; Just chose to ignore the probable and believe the lies she sold herself. No one wants to be ‘like her’. That is her legacy she left. So now she just tries to rebuild it so she's someone she can be proud of.

So I’m not all that worried she’ll repeat unless she slips off the deep end; And that is easy to detect.


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