# What normal marriage is?



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

My husband and I have been married about 18 years. We have a son of 17, who will graduate from high school this year and daughter of 15 in 9th grade. We were both devoiced, when we met. We both just turned 30 and we were both eager to have kids... We both love our kids and each of us help them to grow and develop in a different way... The problem is that my husband and I are so different... I like being around people. I like parties. I am very much into dance (regardless age...  I mean ballroom dances, West coast swing, Argentine tango, salsa..) I like biking, jogging, tennis. I participate in theater plays... Did I mention that I am full time employed?  My husband has no friends. He prefers to sit on the coach and watch TV. He can sleep until 3 or 4 pm on week-end and after that he climbs on coach and watch TV again. He is very handy man and he can fix almost anything... With age I do not see much of any his passion to do anything at home... Not much help with cleaning, but he cooks sometimes... His coach potato life style aggravate me... Well, another big problem: every time I am trying to talk to him, I do not see that he is interested in anything what interest me.. .It is not just sport, dance or entertainment, I can not make him to go to a simple discussions... Don't ask me how come that we did not see all of it before wedding... When you date and eager to have kids, I guess you can get blind... We live with each other, I think for kids... However, kids will leave the house soon, then what? I am scared to think about it... I know that most couple have issues and have to adapt to each other... But where is that line when marriage is not marriage any more? Should we try harder? (here I should mention that the older we get the less enthusiastic we both are to try harder..) Or should we depart?...


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Does he have a job?
I would suggest that the first step is to be clear on what you want ideally and want you want from a marriage that would make you choose to want to stay. Do you know this?


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Alicachesch said:


> My husband and I have been married about 18 years. We have a son of 17, who will graduate from high school this year and daughter of 15 in 9th grade. We were both devoiced, when we met. We both just turned 30 and we were both eager to have kids... We both love our kids and each of us help them to grow and develop in a different way... The problem is that my husband and I are so different... I like being around people. I like parties. I am very much into dance (regardless age...  I mean ballroom dances, West coast swing, Argentine tango, salsa..) I like biking, jogging, tennis. I participate in theater plays... Did I mention that I am full time employed?  My husband has no friends. He prefers to sit on the coach and watch TV. He can sleep until 3 or 4 pm on week-end and after that he climbs on coach and watch TV again. He is very handy man and he can fix almost anything... With age I do not see much of any his passion to do anything at home... Not much help with cleaning, but he cooks sometimes... His coach potato life style aggravate me... Well, another big problem: every time I am trying to talk to him, I do not see that he is interested in anything what interest me.. .It is not just sport, dance or entertainment, him to simple discussions... Don't ask me how come that we did not see all of it before wedding... When you date and eager to have kids, I guess you can get blind... We live with each other, I think for kids... However, kids will leave the house soon, then what? I am scared to think about it... I know that most couple have issues and have to adapt to each other... But where is that line when marriage is not marriage any more? Should we try harder? (here I should mention that the older we get the less enthusiastic we both are to try harder..) Or should we depart?...


Your post reminds me of Fried Green Tomatoes.

Ultimately, he gets nothing out of his potato lifestyle. I was actually more like your husband in a previous relationship with someone ..... more like you. I was unhappy.

Going out and spending face time with my partner gives me tremendous pleasure. The couch is cold and emotionless. He would benefit from an emotional release and re-connecting with not only you but life. Find something to do together. See if he will budge. This is a typical reason for divorce, when things get boring and don't change.

Relationship Teacher


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi Relationship teacher,

YOu said you were unhappy with a partner like me... Could you, please, tell me what would you recommend to do specifically? Obviously, I do not get it on my own... That is why I am here: to learn from others.. I tried to offer to do biking, tennis together. He does not like any of these activities... In best case we do walking together. He likes to go to movies... So, what I learned that he likes to watch TV and he spends as long as 8 hours in front of TV and he likes movies... Tell me what should I do how approach to make him more interested in something else: I am afraid 8 hours in front of TV is more than I can handle physically... I should find a compromise. I do not believe in mariages, when only one side should bend... It creates tension and unhappiness. I also believe that when you do activities together, it bonds you, I just do not know how to approach my husband... YOu seems to might know the answer. Please, share... You will make 4 people happy! I did not come here to complain, because I could tell very nasty stories about my husband. He hurt my feeling really bad many times. I am trying to believe that it happened that he was disparate too... I am loosing trust in his feelings to me... By the way, do you know why I got involved in all these activities: I was turning away from my marriage problems. When it hurts it hurts both ways...


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Mr. the Other,

My husband has a job. More than 10 years ago he decided to have his own business. I thought it was very risky. However, I suggested to buy office building instead renting, which turned out to be very smart decision. He just started business and barely made any money. The building costed twice more than our house. I signed up the papers as guarantor (a person, who will be financially responsible in case of failure). My husband did not fail, but it took him many years to bring as much money I as do to the family. We had arguments, since he did not feel that family account is as important as his business account. It is still the same way now. His business is in quite good shape, but he just matches my salary and no more.. It is workable... It hurts more emotionally than financially. Of course we could have better house than 60 years old house... But it is ok. I provide medical and dental insurance for whole family. I collected some money for college education for our kids from my salary... Do I start to sound as a complainer? It is not a purpose of this conversation... I can feel sorry for myself without bugging other people... I just want an advice... Fair advice... because I know that I will never see the world by his eyes.. He is not talkative person... I want to see our life by his eyes... I am just curious... I am curious what I missed...


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

I do not see many advices and I realize that by trying to be modest and make no complains I did not describe whole picture... People might think why she is even considering a devoice? Her husband' guilt is only to be coach potato... Not a big deal... Well, let's picture: 9 am and it is wonderful day, my husband is sleeping. Noon he is still sleeping. We could go for a walk or do something else, but we are at home... 3 pm I come to wake him up and he is opening his arms for a hug... Do I want a hug at that moment? I have to tell you truth: no! My Saturday passed by... What else is coming from being coach potato? I taught our kids how to bike, how to swim, I brought them to Martial arts, to dance lessons, to piano lessons, to gymnastics. I organized all summer vacations. I went to all parent-teacher conferences and I can keep continue. What did my husband do with kids? He did boy scouts with our son. Coming back to 3 pm on Saturday: I do not like to sit down and do nothing, so until 3 pm I cleaned or did laundry or something else or something else... In the evenings of regular days: while he was sitting on the coach I was running my kids to different activities, when they were small. Now my son is driving, so I get to go to dance lessons. I get scolded by my husband for doing it too often. It started as once a week about 5 years ago and now it can be up to 5 times a week. I am still driving my daughter to piano lesson. She is also good artist. I arranged private lessons for her with the teacher at our house. I also work on math with both kids on Saturdays, while my husband is sleeping. In the middle school they were not lucky with math teacher, so we had to catch up. Did my husband have any appreciation for that work? No, he thought I was crazy to run around with all kid's activities and I am still crazy to spend so much time on dancing... I know I am very energetic. I get up early enough to start cleaning house in am before work. My husband does not seem to have as much energy as I do... So, the marriage still could work out. At least I expect I can come and discuss my problems with my husband, but he is watching TV and he is too busy... It is just a little peek about coach potato's wife life... I have more... That other problems I believe also have roots in being coach potato... Did I try to get him of coach? Yes, I did... many years... I failed... I promised him belly dancing (no joking... ). It did not do a trick... Any comments? Especially I am interested in guy's opinion... What is wrong? I guess if nobody wants to comment... My marriage will end in the court, because I am out of ideas...


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok here goes... You might be driving him crazy running around here and there but not focusing on him. He may feel simple plain and unneeded at home.

Do you ever stop, sit with him, not look at anything else, not think about anything else - just focus 100% on him for an hour? Calmly? In a relaxed manner?

Could you play cards with him? Read a book quietly next to him and just be with him?

I think you might want to try this if you don't now do it. Calm and slow and mirror his demeanor. Smile and focus on him. Ask questions about the TV show or movie.

The idea is to engage him on his level in a way that is comfortable to him. 

If this works, you can gradually try to move him toward you in activities.

He may not know how to connect with you emotionally now do it may take time

Are you often intimate? Sex is a binding experience for many men.

Ultimately if you can engage him on his terms maybe you can start the dialogue you need to have about your future. What does he want - what do you want? How can you keep from growing apart? How can you align goals and activities?

Is he overweight?


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Intimacy - How intimate are you with your husband?

I find that when my wife shows interest in my sexually, then I have interest in doing things with her and sharing life with her. When she rejects me and shows no interest in being intimate, I feel used and not loved and find it hard to want to share my life with her.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Questions for you:

Is he over weight?
Can it be that he is depressed?
How is his health? i.e hearth disease, HBP etc
Are you guys still having sex?
Does he have food allergies?

Why the heck are you doing everything? Wake him up and let him know that there are things to be done and he needs to help. Give him a list (he will need direction at first) and leave him to do it. Then, take him for a walk. NO discussion, no excuses. We are going out and you are coming with us. Stop indulging him. Will that work on him, you think?


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Interesting - we have kids 17, 14, 12 and have started watching a lot of tv together at night. They are so busy all the time with school, honors programs, sports, music, etc.

A friend mentioned the thing they missed most after the kids went to college were nights with the family vegging out in front of the tv

W and I took this to heart and have spent a lot of time as a family watching, munching, sleeping, etc. it's actually very rewarding.

My observation is that you are doing what you want by running around for yourself and the kids and he is doing what he wants working and relaxing in cave time. Your wants don't necessarily trump his. 

You both have to want to converge activities


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Relationships are funny things - plus you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Yes, I'm cynical but what I have seen on numerous occasions and have heard many times from others is that there are people out there living under the same roof who are not in an intimate relationship. I was one of them - and technically still am as we reside under the same roof (it still feels the same, somewhat, if you get my drift).

Many long term couples go on to share separate bedrooms. My ex WS's parents were in separate rooms when I first met them. Her mother later told me that this had been the case for years and further, that they had an agreement - she took care of the inside of the house and he took care of the outside. I should have payed more a attention back then.

It comes back to what you have been advised already. What do you want your life to be? The couch might be his thing or he is exhausted or, lazy or depressed. You can keep having a shot at motivating him so you can do things together, but how long is that meant to go on before you say enough is enough. 

Many of us have this "ideal relationship" expectation but it rarely works out like that - the lucky ones got lucky I suppose. All you can do is keep up the honest communication and finally make a decision that is best for you and your children. There is always going to be sacrifice. 

I hope it works out well for you - Horizon


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

He seems to be on a different sleep schedule than you are and he seems to prefer placid activities. Could you brainstorm together on what you BOTH might get enjoyment from? Mini golf, nature walks, playing pool, bowling, eating out (esp.out of the way ethnic restaurants), exploring a new city each week, board games (they even have interactive DVD games!) There should be a few common interests. 

Also, both try one thing your partner likes but that you have never tried before. If you live in a warmer climate, maybe amusement parks or go-carts might be fun. How about a fun adult arcade? 

What is up with the sleep thing? Why does he sleep so late? Could he be depressed? Something else to consider. 

My husband likes nature and I prefer books, but we both have found some things we BOTH enjoy, not sacrifice(or put up with) but really found out we both enjoyed to do together. Historical tours, boat tours, museums, etc.... Our point is to not to just find something you can "put up with" but something you both really can enjoy as a couple. 

I do also suggest the two books "His Needs, Her Needs, and LoveBusters, only because they made my good marriage unbelievable. Good luck!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Interesting - we have kids 17, 14, 12 and have started watching a lot of tv together at night. They are so busy all the time with school, honors programs, sports, music, etc.
> 
> A friend mentioned the thing they missed most after the kids went to college were nights with the family vegging out in front of the tv
> 
> ...


Marriage is all about compromise - unless the couple is so identical to each other in every way that they both like the exact same things. But even there, they may need to compromise on timing for when and where to do these interests. Obviously, the H and W in the OP are pretty different people. But common sense would dictate that both people come together to talk about their wants, dreams and desires - especially with how these can be obtained by being married. Still there is a huge amount of this story that is missing.

We can speculate as to why the husband sleeps so much on the weekend and only likes to watch TV. Is the H a lazy loser who wants to sit on a log OR is the H spending gobs of time on his business during the week and all he wants to do on the weekend is to veg out? OR is the H depressed because the marriage is nowhere close to what he thought it would be? If the H is drained due to operating his own business, then have the 2 of them ever talked about it? Did she let the H know that the kids miss him being in their lives? Suggest alternatives to the business? Tried to find ways to help the H out with the business? Called the A-hole on the carpet and demand he sell his business because it's destroying the family? Anything? 

Who knows at this point.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Seemed like the OP wanted some answers to why her husband wasn't participating in marriage the way she wants.

As soon as we asked about their love life, she went away. Guessing she maybe wasn't participating in marriage the way he wants either.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

SadSamIAm said:


> Seemed like the OP wanted some answers to why her husband wasn't participating in marriage the way she wants.
> 
> As soon as we asked about their love life, she went away. Guessing she maybe wasn't participating in marriage the way he wants either.


You must be male, you are blaming her because he is a couch potato. So if she was having lots of sex with him then he would be up at 7 am doing activities with her and be active in his kids lives? BS. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to have sex with him he sounds like a lazy slob. Women need and emotional connection to want sex and when you are upset with your spouse you do not feel that connection so you do not want to have sex.

OP I would stick it out until your children are grown and out and then get a divorce if you still aren't happy.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You must be male, you are blaming her because he is a couch potato. So if she was having lots of sex with him then he would be up at 7 am doing activities with her and be active in his kids lives? BS. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to have sex with him he sounds like a lazy slob. Women need and emotional connection to want sex and when you are upset with your spouse you do not feel that connection so you do not want to have sex.
> 
> OP I would stick it out until your children are grown and out and then get a divorce if you still aren't happy.


Maybe he is a lazy slob. 
Maybe he is depressed. 
Maybe he was a great husband when she was being intimate with 
him. 

The point is she didn't answer the question.

Yes many women need an emotional connection to want sex. And many men need to know they are wanted and cared for or they have a hard time being emotionally connected.

Both have to work at it. My point is maybe she isn't putting any work into what he needs.

I am probably just reflecting on my own circumstances. 

My wife knows that when we have been intimate, we have a strong emotional connection. We get along great for a week or so. When she rejects me and we aren't intimate for a couple of weeks I turn into the couch potato and have a hard time being friendly with her when she has shown she doesn't care about my needs.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SadSamIAm said:


> Seemed like the OP wanted some answers to why her husband wasn't participating in marriage the way she wants.
> 
> As soon as we asked about their love life, she went away. Guessing she maybe wasn't participating in marriage the way he wants either.


Very good point. These type of things are usually deeply rooted in something else you don't want to discuss or acknowledge any fault in. All I see is that she is busy doing things she likes and things for the kids, nother centered around him. Maybe that's why he checked out and sleeps all the time. It would piss me off to.


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Interesting... I feel used, when my husband wants just sex and shows zero interest in what I feel emotionally... Sex, then he turns away to sleep... I agree all men have much more connection with women, when there are a lot of sex.. I want it balanced... Not just sex..


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks for input to all of you guys... We are women I guess just wired differently.. I truly need to hear objective guy's opinion how they feel to understand what it is going on with my relationships with my husband... Since I have been asked ( I was raised quite modest), yes, we have sex and it is always great, when we have it. It is only one great thing about our marriage in my opinion, but I feel that we have sex and my husband thinks it is enough to be happy. I bet he does feel happy, but I need somebody, who at least listen to me at least sometimes! If I cry: in his opinion I blow the problem out of proportions... I have nobody at home to come and share my thoughts and worries... So, I get emotionally hurt. Does it effect how much I want sex after that? It does. I don't want sometimes even hugs. Recently after some my efforts to warm up our relationships (it actually did bring some results), he did not found his old speakers from times before our marriage. He was very pissed off. He said: it was me. I threw his speakers away. When I said it was not. He said that I am guilty by default! I was very very hurt. I asked: why? He said: it was not me, who throw away speakers and I asked both kids, they said: no. It must be you. I asked; why do you believe kids and do not believe me? He said: do you know saying when shoe fits? It is true that I am only one, who throw stuff away. My husband does not throw anything away, even when he did not use it for 10 years, including his old T-shirt, which he cannot fit anymore for years... I am not allowed to throw anything.. Guess what? It get collected to the point you can not walk into storage room. I am not allowed to sort it out either. Back to speakers. Nobody have seen them for years.. Do I know what happened to them? No. Is it possible that I took them to salvation army? Possible, although I do not remember it. It is also possible that they are still in storage room.. I was deeply hurt to hear that I am guilty by default. I felt he broke my trust that he still loves me.. Of course, it is not just speakers... It gets collected over time... When I ask him to help to clean his room (we sleep separately, because he snores really loud), he says: go and clean your room. I say: it is cleaned. He says: go and clean something else and leave me alone. Seeing me aggravated lately he offered hugs few times and I refused. I wrote him a letter (letter, because you can take all emotions out and watch the way you talk and focus on positives.. because when I hear: woman, go and clean something... I am not sure that intonation in my voice are the way that should be for negotiation). In the letter I wrote that I refuse hugs, because hugs do not seem resolve issues. Everything comes back to whatever it was and the cycle of confrontations repeats. I offered him to talk. He did not even reply to my email. I am sure that he feels if we have hugs everything is alright. Like guys here believe that if there is sex, it cure everything... For guys probably. For women - not... I am all up to sex! I like it! It is just not enough!


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Ok. I agree I do not focus on him the way he wants. That is probably true... Honestly, I am just human being and I just physically can not sit on the coach for hours and watch TV. I physically can not stay in bed until 3 or 4 pm. However, I try always come after my dance classes and sit next to him on coach and have a little conversation, usually about movie.. I arrange vacations, when it is just only our family and we do things together. We played games last Christmas. What does focusing on him mean? I feel that I already do what I can. I just can't spend 8 hours in front of TV. It is beyond my capabilities. Sorry... If I could I would...


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To SadSamIam and jb02157, 

actually, it is not true statement "As soon as we asked about their love life, she went away". I just did not look at the forum for a day or two. I answered your question about the sex life as soon as I saw the question. I am sorry but I have to say if you jump to conclusion without bothering even to check if your reasoning is right, how you are going to build communication? It is exactly what bugs me in my husband: guilty by default! It is very convenient position. Do not you think?


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

It's good that you stop and sit with him.

My point was that women often have 10 or 20 thoughts running through their heads. 

"I have to go get some eggs... wait we're out of coffee... reminds me I want to stop at Starbucks... Oh I need to pick up some cash... how is the movie going, honey?... Oh, honey would be nice for tomorrow's breakfast on an English muffin, Yum!"

Idk that's my lame attempt to think like the women I know. 

"I'm hungry.... hmmmmm tv......................"

That's what's going on in a typical guys head.

When a man looks at a woman, we often see in their eyes that they are not thinking about us. But we're kind of babies about that - we want your admiration and attention. 

Since we often have only between zero and two thoughts going on at once, we either stop thinking about the one thing and listen to you... or we stare in your direction and our brains lock up and we can't watch the game OR hear what you're saying. In the former case we're annoyed and the latter case, you're annoyed. If we're lucky, we're able to shut off the game and then we are 100% focused on you.

So that's our secret. As one comedian pointed out, when asked "what are you thinking?" And men say "nothing", they're being literal!

So.... if you're really engaging him at his (sedate) level, and giving him attention, then that's a really good thing. If you could improve it a bit, then try.

Rule that out as a part of the problem first because it's easiest to test and fix.

No one thinks you should sit for several hours, any more than any of us expect H to jump up and sort the laundry just because he doesn't want to sit still.

You have to do some sitting and he has to do some moving or you guys aren't going to make it as a couple.

I forget - did we ask - has he been tested or seen for low testosterone, depression, atherosclerosis, underactive thyroid, or other causes of lethargy? Because he had to step up or be helped IMO

I personally think it's awesome you have so much energy and want to do so much. I'd love that. My W and I struggle to get time together with 5 active kids but we both would love to find the time.

Good luck and hope you get more ideas


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To brooklinAnn,

I tried all of what you suggested... It does work in a way.. I asked him about his health. He thinks he is very healthy. I assigned walks with dogs as whole family (he, me and kids). Sometimes he does it without showing to be bothered. Sometimes he shows that he gives me a big favor doing this. As for assignment at home (list or something), he does not like to be bossed around (giving him assignments is bossing him around and I do not blame him. I would not like it either, but general talks do not change anything). He helps occasionally if he is in good mood and it fits his schedule.. You can read my other posts about his reaction, when I ask him to help. Thank you though...


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Alicachesch said:


> Ok. I agree I do not focus on him the way he wants. That is probably true... Honestly, I am just human being and I just physically can not sit on the coach for hours and watch TV. I physically can not stay in bed until 3 or 4 pm. However, I try always come after my dance classes and sit next to him on coach and have a little conversation, usually about movie.. I arrange vacations, when it is just only our family and we do things together. We played games last Christmas. What does focusing on him mean? I feel that I already do what I can. I just can't spend 8 hours in front of TV. It is beyond my capabilities. Sorry... If I could I would...


So here is the question. Let's say he is unwilling to change? He is in it just to get laid and watch tv, but has no interest in any of your hobbies. What would you be willing to do? I know there is no simple answer. Is there a hobby that you both find mutually interesting? Looking at your hobbies (going to parties, dancing, participating in theater) I think it would be unfair to expect him to participate in those. I can see the other physical activities more reasonable.

Also, sorry if I missed, have you discussed your concerns with him, specially about feeling like there will be a huge hole when the kids are done?


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To the TruthHurts,

Thank you! It was so encouraging and helpful! I really wish my husband just sit down and say something like that to me! If he just explained the way you explained. If he just said I also want to work on our relationships, but I will do differently. I would say: Of course! I know that we are different as all people are! I am OK with that. Just do not hurt my feelings! Just do not tell me that I am guilty by default after I worked so hard to keep house clean, kids engaged into activities, worked hard to bring money at home, stay slim and looking younger than many other women of my age... I really wish he said it to me.. I will tell you our secrets: women are also kinda like children. They want to see a strong person near them, who will be like rock, who you can trust and who will wipe your tears, when you have them and who will never ever say to you: you are guilty by default. I could write a story how he reacted when my mom died.. That bullet is still in my heart... His parents are alive. He does not know how it feels to loose mom... 
Anyway, thank you for support.

Your marriage must be much happier than mine...


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Well I text my W all the time and we talk often and "play" at least some every night (started again about a year ago to rekindle things - together 30+ years).

But... I still do not give all the emotional support she wants and needs I am afraid. 

There are things I would like to improve in our marriage too... And like you she is moving 24/7... so these (small but important?) things don't get addressed. 

My dilemma is to ignore them since she is so so busy and I love her and don't want to further burden her (but I did that for decades and that builds resentment) or gently keep bringing them up (which triggers her insecurities and doubts about herself and a sense of not feeling appreciated). So I completely understand your feelings - in my case I guess I have to let her feel this way so she is motivated to make a few small adjustments. So we're very happy and in love and in sync etc., but still have normal marital communication and my needs / your needs minor drama to work through at times just like everyone else. She's too "nice" to tell me what I need to work on, so I read TAM to try to guess what might bug her based on the bugged ladies of TAM.

If you could get hubby to actively work with you, I think you'll be much happier regardless of the specific outcome.

Can you get him to post on TAM - separately and anonymously from you?


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Alicachesch said:


> Mr. the Other,
> 
> My husband has a job. More than 10 years ago he decided to have his own business. I thought it was very risky. However, I suggested to buy office building instead renting, which turned out to be very smart decision. He just started business and barely made any money. The building costed twice more than our house. I signed up the papers as guarantor (a person, who will be financially responsible in case of failure). My husband did not fail, but it took him many years to bring as much money I as do to the family. We had arguments, since he did not feel that family account is as important as his business account. It is still the same way now. His business is in quite good shape, but he just matches my salary and no more.. It is workable... It hurts more emotionally than financially. Of course we could have better house than 60 years old house... But it is ok. I provide medical and dental insurance for whole family. I collected some money for college education for our kids from my salary... Do I start to sound as a complainer? It is not a purpose of this conversation... I can feel sorry for myself without bugging other people... I just want an advice... Fair advice... because I know that I will never see the world by his eyes.. He is not talkative person... I want to see our life by his eyes... I am just curious... I am curious what I missed...


his business account IS more important than your family account

guess what happens to your family account if his business account goes bankrupt ?? which can easily happen in small businesses (stuff up one tax bill... and its gone). bye bye family account, bye bye house, hello repaying debt from his new minimum wage job and constant debt against your precious wage... hows that for tricks kids?


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To Spotthedeaddog,

Yep. I feel that his business is more important than his family account. His business is his baby... He is in business for more than 10 years.. and now his business is stable as far as I know.. But he never offered to bring more money to the family than me. We had fights when I insisted to match my salary. It was when I knew that he can afford it.. Not that I know much about his business. He invested into his building more money than the price of our old house... How does it make me feel? I would say: not very important in his life...


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Alicachesch said:


> Ok. I agree I do not focus on him the way he wants. That is probably true... Honestly, I am just human being and I just physically can not sit on the coach for hours and watch TV. I physically can not stay in bed until 3 or 4 pm. However, I try always come after my dance classes and sit next to him on coach and have a little conversation, usually about movie.. I arrange vacations, when it is just only our family and we do things together. We played games last Christmas. What does focusing on him mean? I feel that I already do what I can. I just can't spend 8 hours in front of TV. It is beyond my capabilities. Sorry... If I could I would...


been there, had partner was there/candycrush all day. another who read for hours on end.

sometimes it can be illness of medical (occasionally when I travel I can do zero social - sleeping up to 20hrs day, every moment outside of meetings)

often its just withdrawal from the world. Its not a mans world out there anymore, just drama and control and money and social siht. The tv is easy to tune out and forget it, not have to put up with the completely rewardless stress and constant demands of modernism that serves to remind a person they aren't real people, just functions in a machine. Chances are he's not stimulate by the wonders of whacking a little ball around a park for hours on end, or running around without reason, nor body obsessive enough about himself to like sitting stretching for no apparent reason. He's not a big salaryman, doesn't have a wank famous job, nor is he socially important like a state paid fireman or policeman.
why not go into the TV? what life got to offer?


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To TheTruthHurts,

I tried so many times to talk about our problems and in response: hug and sex and we are alright... I tried to glue together by doing what he likes... I guess I feel that he does not listen about what I need... 

I do not think I am ideal wife and I have never hurt my husband. I asked him what you need? Do you want something? He says: I think we are OK.

May be I should lower my expectations and swallow that I will never get emotional support... and continue to dance 5 times a week... 

I do not know..


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Alicachesch said:


> To TheTruthHurts,
> 
> I tried so many times to talk about our problems and in response: hug and sex and we are alright... I tried to glue together by doing what he likes... I guess I feel that he does not listen about what I need...
> 
> ...


Because putting your needs (problems) on top of everything else really helps people who are in a depressed state.

Nothing says romantic like putting your issues on the other person ?


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Alicachesch said:


> Thanks for input to all of you guys... We are women I guess just wired differently.. I truly need to hear objective guy's opinion how they feel to understand what it is going on with my relationships with my husband... Since I have been asked ( I was raised quite modest), yes, we have sex and it is always great, when we have it. It is only one great thing about our marriage in my opinion, but I feel that we have sex and my husband thinks it is enough to be happy. I bet he does feel happy, but I need somebody, who at least listen to me at least sometimes! If I cry: in his opinion I blow the problem out of proportions... I have nobody at home to come and share my thoughts and worries... So, I get emotionally hurt. Does it effect how much I want sex after that? It does. I don't want sometimes even hugs. Recently after some my efforts to warm up our relationships (it actually did bring some results), he did not found his old speakers from times before our marriage. He was very pissed off. He said: it was me. I threw his speakers away. When I said it was not. He said that I am guilty by default! I was very very hurt. I asked: why? He said: it was not me, who throw away speakers and I asked both kids, they said: no. It must be you. I asked; why do you believe kids and do not believe me? He said: do you know saying when shoe fits? It is true that I am only one, who throw stuff away. My husband does not throw anything away, even when he did not use it for 10 years, including his old T-shirt, which he cannot fit anymore for years... I am not allowed to throw anything.. Guess what? It get collected to the point you can not walk into storage room. I am not allowed to sort it out either. Back to speakers. Nobody have seen them for years.. Do I know what happened to them? No. Is it possible that I took them to salvation army? Possible, although I do not remember it. It is also possible that they are still in storage room.. I was deeply hurt to hear that I am guilty by default. I felt he broke my trust that he still loves me.. Of course, it is not just speakers... It gets collected over time... When I ask him to help to clean his room (we sleep separately, because he snores really loud), he says: go and clean your room. I say: it is cleaned. He says: go and clean something else and leave me alone. Seeing me aggravated lately he offered hugs few times and I refused. I wrote him a letter (letter, because you can take all emotions out and watch the way you talk and focus on positives.. because when I hear: woman, go and clean something... I am not sure that intonation in my voice are the way that should be for negotiation). In the letter I wrote that I refuse hugs, because hugs do not seem resolve issues. Everything comes back to whatever it was and the cycle of confrontations repeats. I offered him to talk. He did not even reply to my email. I am sure that he feels if we have hugs everything is alright. Like guys here believe that if there is sex, it cure everything... For guys probably. For women - not... I am all up to sex! I like it! It is just not enough!


You mention you like sex and it is great, when you have it.

I can see my wife answering this question the exact same way.

She likes sex. We have sex. It is great when we have it.

What my wife wouldn't say is that it only happens once or twice a month. That she rejects me a couple of times a week. That she puts no effort into showing me she wants me in that way. That it is up to me to try to be intimate and most of the time she rejects me, saying she is too tired, it is too late, etc. etc. etc. Even though she has time and energy for everything that is important to her.

I hope you don't reject your husband. I hope you have sex with him a couple of times a week. I am sorry that he is not there for you emotionally. I know I am not there emotionally for my wife at times as well when she has rejected me many times and we haven't been close in a couple of weeks. I wish I didn't take it so personally, but I do. 

I am sorry if I projected the way I feel onto your marriage. I just know that when I spend a lot of time on the couch, watching TV and not being present for my wife, it is because she has not put any effort into being close to me.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Have you or H read "His needs her need"? It's a very easy to read book that talks about what men and women want in a relationship, told in a way that the other can understand.

http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Building-Affair-Proof/dp/0800744233

It might make communicating your emotional needs to him easier, and allow him to show you better what his needs are.


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To SpotTheDeadDog and to TheTrithHurts,

I agree with you 100%, SpotThe DeadDog. There is nothing romantic about putting your needs above everything. I usually do not put my needs above everything else.. but I have them, that is why I dance, participate in theater plays, keeping myself busy with kids. When I do it, I am happy as a person. As soon as I am trying to make my marriage happy I get no response from my husband... Lately our problems escalated... I do know that he is tired.. By the way I have not answered why he is sleeping so long.. I think (I can not say about depression or stress, but he did mention once that watching TV helps him unwind after work. I also work and my work is intermediate level, so I have people under me to be responsible for and boss to report to): he sleeps so long because he does not go to bed earlier than 1 am, often 2 am, 3 am.. sometimes 4 am... During work days he leaves for work at 9 am. I tried to convince him that it is not healthy... He just ignores my advices.. And I was saying it in simply nice way... Let;s I wake up and go to take a little bit of water, and I see him still in front if TV... Those problems are like a trap... I forget about my needs and I become great mom, friend, dancer, actor, worker...Read this, guys, may be it will help you to understand why your wives ignore you or saying: I am tired.. because you do get tired.. so tired that you can not think about your needs.. 
My husband bought the book and CDs " His needs and her needs" after he devoiced first time. I have never seen him reading it. I also did not read, but I will, since people are saying it is good source of advices...


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

To SadSamIam,

It would be right not project your experience into my relationships. If we had some slow down time with frequency, it was when kids were babies. After sleepless night and day time work I was getting shy with sex. Currently, it is not as often as it used to be because we are both 50... I think sex is good. I would keep my husband as a lover for sure...


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Alicachesch said:


> To SadSamIam,
> 
> It would be right not project your experience into my relationships. If we had some slow down time with frequency, it was when kids were babies. After sleepless night and day time work I was getting shy with sex. Currently, it is not as often as it used to be because we are both 50... I think sex is good. I would keep my husband as a lover for sure...



We do sound similar. My wife is 50 and I am 52. We also had a major slow down when the kids were young. 

You still haven't answered the frequency question. 

If sex is good like you say and you are only doing it once a month or so, then why not try to ramp it up a bit. What do you have to lose? You say the sex is good!!!

I know for me. The difference between being cold and lazy and being fun and warm and energetic, is feeling loved. And feeling loved is all about feeling wanted and desired and making love with my wife.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You must be male, you are blaming her because he is a couch potato. So if she was having lots of sex with him then he would be up at 7 am doing activities with her and be active in his kids lives? BS. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to have sex with him he sounds like a lazy slob. Women need and emotional connection to want sex and when you are upset with your spouse you do not feel that connection so you do not want to have sex.
> 
> OP I would stick it out until your children are grown and out and then get a divorce if you still aren't happy.


When I was in a similar situation, there were plenty of suggestions that I must me be a selfish, lazy good for nothing who should just learn to communicate. It is was foolish, it is worth eliminating these things.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Alicachesch said:


> To SpotTheDeadDog and to TheTrithHurts,
> 
> I agree with you 100%, SpotThe DeadDog. There is nothing romantic about putting your needs above everything. I usually do not put my needs above everything else.. but I have them, that is why I dance, participate in theater plays, keeping myself busy with kids. When I do it, I am happy as a person. As soon as I am trying to make my marriage happy I get no response from my husband... Lately our problems escalated... I do know that he is tired.. By the way I have not answered why he is sleeping so long.. I think (I can not say about depression or stress, but he did mention once that watching TV helps him unwind after work. I also work and my work is intermediate level, so I have people under me to be responsible for and boss to report to): he sleeps so long because he does not go to bed earlier than 1 am, often 2 am, 3 am.. sometimes 4 am... During work days he leaves for work at 9 am. I tried to convince him that it is not healthy... He just ignores my advices.. And I was saying it in simply nice way... Let;s I wake up and go to take a little bit of water, and I see him still in front if TV... Those problems are like a trap... I forget about my needs and I become great mom, friend, dancer, actor, worker...Read this, guys, may be it will help you to understand why your wives ignore you or saying: I am tired.. because you do get tired.. so tired that you can not think about your needs..
> My husband bought the book and CDs " His needs and her needs" after he devoiced first time. I have never seen him reading it. I also did not read, but I will, since people are saying it is good source of advices...


Selfishness and love are warped in peoples' eyes. Putting someone first because you really feel you should is not being good. It is putting your own self-image first and justifying yourself to an imaginary friend in your head who says you should keep doing more. Love is sincere, but you have limits.

The standard advice is to decide on your limits, lay them down and make it clear take control. The chances are your partner will not respond and just continue to wallow and self-justify. This will be more for your sanity. Once you know that you have made it clear what is required for you to continue to support him, you have given him the choice. If he does not make the right choice with his actions, you have to respond accordingly. 

One of your limits is him refusing to look after your husband. You do not have to insist that he exercise regularly, but you are not going to look after him if he does not. You do not have to insist that he sees a doctor to determine whether he is depressed, but you will not indulge his self-destructive lifestyle if he does not.

He might well be depressed. But anyone who spends their life on their arse taking advantage of a loved one will get depressed. If he is not getting any sex (i.e. intimacy) then address this.

I would also suggest reading No More Mr Nice Guy and pretty much pretend you're a man while reading it.


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> When I was in a similar situation, there were plenty of suggestions that I must me be a selfish, lazy good for nothing who should just learn to communicate. It is was foolish, it is worth eliminating these things.


Dear Mr. The Other, could you specify in more details what you meant by your message? Why do you feel you were in the same situation? Sleeping until 3 pm? Not participating in activities of your wife?... Your message was not clear... 
Thanks!


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Alicachesch said:


> Dear Mr. The Other, could you specify in more details what you meant by your message? Why do you feel you were in the same situation? Sleeping until 3 pm? Not participating in activities of your wife?... Your message was not clear...
> Thanks!


In our case, she could not be bothered with housework, would not give sexually (was open to receive) and did not get a job. 

You can see the threads I started if curious. There was no happy ending for the marriage, only divorce. I suspect there was an underlying sense of a lack of worth, that nothing I did could address as it made her rely on me, being on her own was the best thing for it.


----------



## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

OP, you said you sleep in different rooms because he snores so loud. 

My wife and I did that for about 20 years. I was quite the lazy bear at home. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and also obstructive sleep apnea. By 3:00pm everyday I couldn't function properly. I was referred to a sleep clinic where it was revealed I had stopped breathing 65 times in a 4 hour period. I now use a CPAP machine and haven't snored since. 

My energy levels have increased, my diabetes is under control, my wife and I share a bed again and I have dropped 35lbs. 

Maybe your husband should be checked for sleep apnea, diabetes, low T and thyroid. He may want to do things with you but just not have the energy to do them. 

Try doing a little research on sleep apnea, you may find that could be a big issue in your instance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> In our case, she could not be bothered with housework, would not give sexually (was open to receive) and did not get a job.
> 
> You can see the threads I started if curious. There was no happy ending for the marriage, only divorce. I suspect there was an underlying sense of a lack of worth, that nothing I did could address as it made her rely on me, being on her own was the best thing for it.


Sorry, your answer made me even more confused... Your wife did not have a job, I do. Your wife (better say ex-wife, right?) did not do house job, I do... Aaaa... Where is the similarity?... As for relying on you... In my case I do rely on my husband when it comes to anything technical.. or it is a man job...There were situations when I preferred to take the situation in my own hands...


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

thenub said:


> OP, you said you sleep in different rooms because he snores so loud.
> 
> My wife and I did that for about 20 years. I was quite the lazy bear at home. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and also obstructive sleep apnea. By 3:00pm everyday I couldn't function properly. I was referred to a sleep clinic where it was revealed I had stopped breathing 65 times in a 4 hour period. I now use a CPAP machine and haven't snored since.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will try to convince him! That would be the hardest part!


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

thenub said:


> OP, you said you sleep in different rooms because he snores so loud.
> 
> My wife and I did that for about 20 years. I was quite the lazy bear at home. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and also obstructive sleep apnea. By 3:00pm everyday I couldn't function properly. I was referred to a sleep clinic where it was revealed I had stopped breathing 65 times in a 4 hour period. I now use a CPAP machine and haven't snored since.
> 
> ...


Just talk to my husband about going to sleep center. His answer was "no". He said "I don't want to wear mask. I am still alive, so nothing can be that bad". That is typical for our marriage. I make suggestion and hit the wall. No even discussion... Everything what I am suggesting is not good... That is how he makes me feel. He become rather suspicious: what my attention are.. I asked him: just do diagnostic and see what doctor will suggest... Again I heard "no". He labeled me as "guilty by default". I think I am just too tired that it is not true... Tired on being Roller Coaster... I get a hope and it get shot down...


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Alicachesch said:


> Sorry, your answer made me even more confused... Your wife did not have a job, I do. Your wife (better say ex-wife, right?) did not do house job, I do... Aaaa... Where is the similarity?... As for relying on you... In my case I do rely on my husband when it comes to anything technical.. or it is a man job...There were situations when I preferred to take the situation in my own hands...


Happilymarried25 said that a response could only come from a male, suggesting that had a man been in a similar position to yourself, it would have elicited only sympathy. I pointed out that by situation could be compared to your and I took a large amount of criticism from a couple of posters.



Happilymarried25 said:


> You must be male, you are blaming her because he is a couch potato. So if she was having lots of sex with him then he would be up at 7 am doing activities with her and be active in his kids lives? BS. I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to have sex with him he sounds like a lazy slob. Women need and emotional connection to want sex and when you are upset with your spouse you do not feel that connection so you do not want to have sex.
> 
> OP I would stick it out until your children are grown and out and then get a divorce if you still aren't happy.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Tell your H they sleep apnea damages the heart. I've been wearing a mask - actually something that goes under my nose - for several years. w sleeps in the same bed and we have daily sex in our 50's. There is no excuse these days with modern masks.

Btw I call my CPAP machine my sleep machine. The first night I wore it I got an amazing sleep - the best in years. He is really missing out!

Something like this:

http://www.thecpapshop.com/respironics-nuance-pro-gel-nasal-pillows-mask


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Is he overweight? I was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea when I was about 20 pounds over my ideal weight, but I don't even snore very much at all now that I have lost that extra weight.

By the way, I tried a CPAP machine but hated it. Fortunately I don't need it anymore.


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

technovelist said:


> Is he overweight? I was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea when I was about 20 pounds over my ideal weight, but I don't even snore very much at all now that I have lost that extra weight.
> 
> By the way, I tried a CPAP machine but hated it. Fortunately I don't need it anymore.


He is somewhat overweight now, but not obese. When I met him, he was slim and he snored so loud, that I would jump in the bed... I know that he stops breathing during night. Today was not first time when I talked to him about sleep center, but I tried to pursue more this time. He said: I am still alive..


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Tell your H they sleep apnea damages the heart. I've been wearing a mask - actually something that goes under my nose - for several years. w sleeps in the same bed and we have daily sex in our 50's. There is no excuse these days with modern masks.
> 
> Btw I call my CPAP machine my sleep machine. The first night I wore it I got an amazing sleep - the best in years. He is really missing out!
> 
> ...


Dear TheThruthHurts, I can tell him and I will, when I find right moment, but he has been ignoring my health advises so far.. I do not have much hope. If it would come from somewhere else, he would believe better. It is not just about his own health or parenting... Sorry, I wish it would be easier... I have Ph.D in biology, he is engineer... He does not trust my opinion as for medical advises... I think the problem is deeper... My brother has a Ph.D in economics, his wife has only high school education... He listen her opinion, he makes breakfast for her. She does not work, although kids are 15 and 11. He makes sure that his wife is in comfort, although to my opinion she is quite spoiled. For an example, she likes to dress and look good at photos, and for that reason I carried her stuff around Chicago, when we had both families vacation trip into Chicago. I cooked every night (she was too tired...). She is fun to be around, but I would not want to have a wife like her if I were a man I am saying being a woman...Ha-ha... I have to admit she knows something I do not know... Although my brother has a very mellow personality... Go and figure... I am educated with full time job, doing a lot of house work, taking care of kids. I can talk on almost any topic, I have friends and hobbies and I can not communicate with my own husband...


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm sorry . He sounds like a dud.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Alicachesch said:


> He is somewhat overweight now, but not obese. When I met him, he was slim and he snored so loud, that I would jump in the bed... I know that he stops breathing during night. Today was not first time when I talked to him about sleep center, but I tried to pursue more this time. He said: I am still alive..


I wasn't anywhere near obese but getting rid of that extra 20 pounds made all the difference.

But if he snored that loudly when he was slim, apparently that's not the issue.

Does he have food allergies? That can cause snoring too.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

technovelist said:


> I wasn't anywhere near obese but getting rid of that extra 20 pounds made all the difference.
> 
> But if he snored that loudly when he was slim, apparently that's not the issue.
> 
> Does he have food allergies? That can cause snoring too.


I snore if I am on my back (I will go onto my side upon request in my sleep apparently). I have about 15% body fat.


----------



## Alicachesch (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks to all of you for helping me out.. I have another friend (a woman, who is about in the same age as I am). She is in very similar situation as I am... I am mentioning her thinking if this is horrible age for marriage? ... I think the problem is that there is a history and developed stereotypes of behavior, reaction, and as consequence stereotyped assumption in our relationships... I do not mind to make a great dinner, give a hug, have a great sex... but I am tired to be only person, who tries to glue things together. This is where my friend and I feel very similar... I am sure if my husband would be here, he would tell a lot of nasty things about me.. I was trying not to say anything bad and stay objective (I hope I did it, since the goal was not to cry out in public, but to find a solution). Everything what I can do is to create a distance between him and me and give myself and my husband time to breath. No communication - no arguments... It is not normal family life, but I feel I need some time to heal my wounds... before making right decision with clear mind... 

My dad, for an example, was very selfish husband for 39-41 years.. Only last 8-10 years of my mom's life, when he realized that she can die and he will loose her, he flipped upside down. He became such a careful husband... It is so sad that it did not happen earlier... 

I think if we could learn to communicate better. If there were some special magic wand, which allow us to deliver not words, but feelings behind those words, how many people would be so much more happy.


----------

