# Married to Maybe the Most Functional Alcoholic Ever, and Ready to Walk



## Shimmer

Okay, I've now browsed quite a bit of this forum, somewhat learned the lay of the land and feel like this is where I probably fit in best, so I'll do another introduction.

I've been married for nearly 25 years to a very high functioning alcoholic - he's been at the same job for longer than we've been married and his well respected there. He's never been arrested, wrecked a car, has no financial problems or any of the other usual pitfalls that typically befall an alcoholic. It's just that if he's not at work or asleep, he has a drink in his hand and WILL go to bed drunk, day or night. He even brings his beer into the shower!

I've threatened to leave many times in the past, and he's been to rehab twice, both failed, obviously. I've done Al Anon, individual counseling, etc. Professionals have told me over and over that I should leave. Why haven't I? 

I needed help with the kids, for one, and in spite of it all he IS a good father. Besides, they're all pretty much grown now, so that ship has sailed. Another reason? He's a good person, beneath it all, and I have terrible guilt about 'bailing' on him. He helps around the house and in many ways is an ideal husband, probably a better spouse than I am since I've given up trying over the past few years. 

I promised myself long ago that I'd leave once the kids were independent, and have only been marking time for the past few years. This has had an unexpected result. Once I stopped asking him to conduct himself a certain way, stopped hoping for normal companionship, etc., he's never been happier and there are no more fights! He takes my silence as meaning that things are fine and I feel terrible knowing he'll be blindsided when I tell him I want a divorce. Heck, at times I've fooled myself into believing that our marriage is okay... until I see the affection and friendship between other couples and could cry with envy. 

I've made an appointment to see a counselor (alone, he swore he'd never see a marriage counselor and I'm not about to try again at theis point). I'm hoping to find the courage to do what I know I need to do, and looking forward to some new perspectives. Thanks for reading.


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## movealong

You need to answer three questions for yourself (imo):

1. Have you checked out of the marriage and there is nothing that will keep you there?
2. Are you prepared to give an ultimatum and carry through with it whether it be leaving, or, staying if he gets sober?
3. If you give the ultimatum and he decides to get sober, are you prepared to re-attach emotionally?


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## Giro flee

Definitely go to counseling. Living with an alcoholic is torture, nobody should have to live that way. 

That guilt you feel about leaving him has been carefully cultivated by the codependent relationship that develops with alcoholics. They are masters at manipulation, making us feel guilty for everything in their life. 

You only get one life you deserve to live happily. The absence of the constant tension living with an alcoholic is indescribable. I was so tense I didn't even realize how bad it was, it was my natural state. To come home without worrying about what might happen is so liberating! Love, peace, affection; these are all worth it.


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## PBear

A few thoughts...

You're not considering "bailing" on him. You've been enabling his behaviour for your entire marriage, and you're considering stopping that enablement.

He may see you as a "walk away wife", as he thinks things are peachy keen because you're not nagging him about his negative behaviour. Too bad, so sad for him. Point him back to your many previous discussions and see if he can recognize that he hasn't changed from your original complaints.

He wasn't a "good father" if he's taught the kids that it's normal to take a beer into the shower and fall asleep drunk every night.

Possibly the reason he wouldn't ever consider counselling is because he didn't want to face the music he knew he'd hear (and deserve).

It's great that you're finally getting counselling. You need to get yourself in a place that you can take the advice that you've already been given. 

Good luck!

C


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Read this book NOW (really, download it to your computer -- Amazon.com has a FREE kindle app for people with PCs). Co-dependent No More by Melody Beattie.

Read it SLOWLY, with thorough comprehension (it's not a 'race' to see how fast you can complete it). USE it like a workbook; there are questions at the end of every chapter. Answer them. Literally WRITE down the answers to each question - use it like a workbook.

At the end of the book, you will have a BETTER UNDERSTANDING of yourself, your life, your choices (past and present). 

This book should give you some CLARITY after which you should have an easier time choosing a path forward in your life (we don't know what it is, you don't know what it is. Read the book and you'll be able to pick it out.)

If you answer the questions TRUTHFULLY by looking inside yourself for answers, you'll be able to make better choices in a week or two when you're finished with the book.

Best wishes for 2014!


.


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## bandit.45

I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I know exactly the kind of person your husband is. I know many alcoholics of this type. He will not stop, and he will occasionally go to treatment to get everyone off his back and then start drinking again. 

I would divorce him if I were you. He needs to hit rock bottom and lose everything to maybe....maybe wake up and see how dysfunctional his behavior is. 

You deserve to be happy and live a life without being shackled to a drunk.


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## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> I would divorce him if I were you. He needs to hit rock bottom and lose everything to maybe....maybe wake up and see how dysfunctional his behavior is.


Put the emphasis on maybe. I know a highly functional alcoholic who is royally screwing up his life yet isn't quitting. He's ran his father's business into the ground. It's enough to survive on, to support himself, but not what it was. He's lost the comfortable life he had. His WONDERFUL wife has left, his kids avoid him (his youngest graduates this year). Yet he's not stopped. He's one of those guys that only those with knowledge of the 'tells' that he's flying high would notice.


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## Pinkpetal

I've been reading threads here on TAM for a while now, but I joined today because I wanted to offer my advice to you Shimmer. 

I too was married to an alcoholic for 20 years. 

It's my opinion that it won't get any better. Let your loneliness and anger drive you Shimmer. Hubby doesn't really believe that you're going anywhere, you've threatened it before. You've taken this behaviour from him for years and he has learned that you will stick around for it. 

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is leave. I left my husband 5 years ago, divorced him, and am now in a wonderful relationship with a man who loves spending time with me and treats me beautifully. When I look back, I really can't believe how different my life is now - how different I am. 

And what of my husband...? Nothing has changed for him. He drinks as much as he ever did. Our kids visit him every few weeks, and they tell me that he still has the same ol' routines. He likes his life with lots of beer in it. 

Continue with your IC, and choose happiness Shimmer. Don't let feeling frightened stop you. 

I wish you all the best.


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## larry.gray

If you said whiskey instead of beer I might think you're talking about the same guy Pinkpetal.


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## Shimmer

Thanks everyone, and especially you PinkPetal, for your input.

I'm having such a terribly hard time with this. When I was much younger I endured a brief marriage to an abusive jerk. It was easy to leave him, and this feels so different. My husband truly is a good person underneath it all and I hate the idea that I'm going to cause him pain. The marriage we have is apparently enough for him, even if it seems like an illusion to me.

At the same time, I question my own judgment and wonder if what I have isn't enough... a man who works hard and provides well, has never laid a hand on me and has been faithful for 25 years, at least as far as I know. Am I a fool for wanting more... a friend, someone who makes me laugh and wants to talk to me at night instead of staring into his beer can?

I have read "Codependent No More", but will do a refresher. I've also read "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay", and as expected, all signs pointed to "leave". There has been so much anger between us, so many issues swept under the rug, but I know he's been lulled into a false sense of security now, since I've quit fighting him and just let him be with his booze. He's happy as can be and I'm perfectly miserable.


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## Shimmer

movealong said:


> You need to answer three questions for yourself (imo):
> 
> 1. Have you checked out of the marriage and there is nothing that will keep you there?
> 2. Are you prepared to give an ultimatum and carry through with it whether it be leaving, or, staying if he gets sober?
> 3. If you give the ultimatum and he decides to get sober, are you prepared to re-attach emotionally?


These are hard questions.

1) The last counselor I saw (a few years ago) told me I was already emotionally divorced and could not believe I hadn't already left. Sometimes I can't believe it either, but here we are. 

2) The last time he quit drinking (for maybe a month?) about 2 years ago he was miserable the entire time and I remember thinking back then that I didn't know if I could handle being married to this version of him either. 

3) As far as reattaching, I'm not sure. There are so many resentments, so many awful experiences which he has never apologized for, just pretended they didn't happen. I find myself dreaming of a different existence, while at the same time I feel frozen in abject fear of rocking the boat and going through the trauma of a divorce and all that it entails. 

So instead, every night, he watches TV, smokes and drinks while I keep my nose in a book or spend the evening online, chatting with friends or researching my hobbies. In many ways we may as well be alone, but he will cling to me as his wife to the bitter end, I know it. 

And maybe it has something to do with what he has to lose in a divorce settlement - believe me, I've debated with myself over just letting him have well more than his half just so he'll let me go a little easier.


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## turnera

He will never change as long as you are living with him. Period. He has no reason to.


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## Pinkpetal

You are very welcome Shimmer. 

I know that deciding to leave is a process, and it doesn't sound like you are quite there yet.

For myself, I wavered for years. After 20 years of marriage of course I cared about my husband and worried about what would happen to him if I were to leave. I didn't want to be responsible for any downward spiral, and I was pretty sure that that was what would happen. But I felt as though I was very slowly dying inside. Every day became another day to get through, same as the day before, evenings being the worst. 

Loneliness and lack of intimacy matter in a relationship Shimmer. Of course you feel bereft because you are not receiving the love and attention from your husband that you truly deserve. 

It's my opinion that you're fighting a losing battle. Be honest with yourself - is this really the life that you want to live Shimmer? Another year of this? - another 5, 10, or 15 years?? I don't believe that your husband's behaviour is going to change, not after so many years and failed attempts. And your loneliness is not going to go away. 

I know this may sound harsh, but in my own experience, the best thing you can do for your husband is to stop being his safety net. Cut him loose and let him sink or swim on his own. He may flail around and go under water, but I'd be surprised if he didn't pop back up and eventually start to swim. 

You can do it Shimmer. Your hubby is a grown man. He needs to step up, and you need to require it of him.

Best to you.


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## turnera

Shimmer said:


> but he will cling to me as his wife to the bitter end, I know it.


So?

He can WANT to cling to you til the bitter end, but if you divorce him, he won't have a choice, will he?


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## turnera

Pinkpetal said:


> Be honest with yourself - is this really the life that you want to live Shimmer? Another year of this? - another 5, 10, or 15 years??


You only get one of them. Lives, I mean. Is this what your parents wanted for you?


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## Shimmer

This is SO difficult, y'all. 

I can't make a move whatsover until probably March, when things have calmed down around our house and I feel like it's a good time to move forward. A family member is undergoing some important training right now and I refuse to wreck it by dropping this bomb until they are done.

So for now, I'm doing what I can to get along and still acting as if everything is fine. I have no more fight left in me and find myself giving him passive responses to whatever he asks or needs, and of course, he thinks all is well... GREAT, in fact. He's smiling, cheerful, and probably can't believe his good luck that I've finally quit nagging about his drinking, neglected home repairs, etc. 

To top it off, I have to grin and bear it through our 25th anniversary coming up - what awful timing! I'm miserable, completely and totally defeated, and I don't think he suspects a thing. 

This is entire process is so much harder than I thought it would be. I don't know WHY I thought it wouldn't be, but this is crushing my soul, all of it. :*(


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## turnera

Try to look at it another way. You have a great new future ahead of you. It's just postponed a bit, all for good reason. So, any time you have to deal with his BS, just realize that you know something he doesn't. And in a few months' time, you'll be the one smiling.


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## movealong

I am glad you are making plans and getting yourself ready. It will help you when you finally make the move.

I can't help but feel a twinge of pain though when I read your posts. You sound a lot like my wife when she explains how she felt. We're still together, but it is not easy. She has to deal with all of the emotional baggage from my years of drinking, I deal with the guilt and self-loathing because of the destruction I wrought in our marriage, and we both are trying to find a way back to being happy together.

I have 321 days of sobriety, I have worked my program, and I am doing all I know how to do to be a better husband, father, and partner. Some days it feels like it is working and some days I just want it to be over. More than anything I would like to have her forgiveness, but she is not ready for that. She may never be ready for that. But I know that I caused the problems, so I am trying to give her time to heal or decide whether she wants to keep trying or split up.

Like your husband, I was glad when she stopped nagging about my drinking. I didn't read the storm clouds well enough to know it wasn't another spring shower, it was a hurricane bearing down on me. 

This post is really why I asked you those three questions in my first post in this thread. Really, what happens if he decides to get sober and stay sober? For me, it hasn't been enough for my wife...yet...but I keep praying and hoping and working my program.


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## Shimmer

movealong said:


> This post is really why I asked you those three questions in my first post in this thread. Really, what happens if he decides to get sober and stay sober? For me, it hasn't been enough for my wife...yet...but I keep praying and hoping and working my program.


My gut reaction is to say it wouldn't make a difference. I've dreamed of a new life for so long now that deciding to stay would feel like a defeat to me. Maybe my dreams are pipe dreams, I don't know, but I look forward to doing things and going places with a companion who is worried about more than where the closest bar is. 

At the same time, it hurts me to think of the pain this will cause him and I'm dreading the announcement with all of my heart. Like I said, this would be easier if he were a complete jerk, but he's not. He's a good person with a BAd problem, and one I'm tired of dealing with. 

I just want to be happy and look forward to the rest of my life, and sadly that comes at the expense of hurting him.


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## turnera

It could also be seen as helping him, as he won't get help while you're still there. Leaving gives him a reason to change.


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## silkpalace

I truly believe that after the kids have "grown up", people question their marital status more than ever. And, I think everyone at some point has probably convinced themselves that everything is "okay" in their marriage. It"s a way to protect ourselves from making some type of "change". 

Counseling will surely help.....AlAnon could help......but only you will know when you're "sick and tired" of being "sick and tired" of his behavior. Remember, he will change only and only if he wants to change. 

Good Luck


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## "joe"

Shimmer said:


> He takes my silence as meaning that things are fine and I feel terrible knowing he'll be blindsided when I tell him I want a divorce.


*do NOT blindside him and do NOT stay silent.* that was done to me, though in my case it's my wife with the drinking problem (and the BPD). the devastation this has created cannot be expressed in words. just reading that was a furious trigger. 

please consider movealong's questions in post #2.


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## Heartbroken84

This is a really good poem that says it all... Hardest thing to do but it's the only way.


IF YOU LOVE ME, LET ME FALL

IF you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me, don't throw a pillow under my ass to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it, don't stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall, (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me)

Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit....trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me.....The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours....the sooner I will arrive....and on time....just right where I need to be...me, alone all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead...resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one.

It I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile, I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out....I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound.

Don't you see?? Don't you know?? You can't do this for me...I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever supposed to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours.

I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart and from knowledge of what is best for me....but if you truly love me, let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good.

Don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly....nudge me out of your safety net....trust the process and pray for me.....that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar.


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## aine

Hi everyone, I just joined. Shimmer your 'story' is similar to mine. I had a light bulb moment a few days ago and realized my husband is an alcoholic even though he earns well, never misses a day at work, he is lovely when he is sober. But i have lived for 22 years on a roller coaster, always worrying when the peace would be shattered and I would be on the down again. I know I have to look out for myself and have begun to think its better to walk away. I have 2 teenage kids who have to be educated, both want to go to college. He is the main earner, I only work part time as I am also studying to get more qualifications. He says if I ever leave him he wont care about the finances for the kids and will become a full blown alcoholic as he wont care anymore. That is why I am hanging on for now. We are not speaking right now after his last binge this week> I am reading more about al anon and how to approach this but to be honest I am so so tired of it all, I am numb. Thanks for listening.


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## turnera

aine, you need to start attending Alanon.


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## aine

Hi Turnera,
I just got the number and contact name in my area, now the next step is to call...


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## Shimmer

UPDATE:

I'm still here, but change is brewing. I had several important events to get through at the first of the year, and they are all nearly done. If I've got the guts, the time is coming.

Over the weekend I made the mistake of alluding to the fact that if some things don't change I'm not afraid to leave. This resulted in him throwing a major tantrum, telling me of everything I'M going to ruin if I dare take that step, and then pulling a major public drunk which he seems to find amusing. He knows there's nothing that horrifies me worse than public embarrassment and I'm quite certain that's why he did it. 

I had been wavering before, trying to convince myself to stick around a little longer and see what happened. It seemed to be the path of least resistance. Today I woke up clear and focused, as if my subconscious was forcing me to get back on track and showing me the way I need to go - and I find that I'm listening very intently.


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## turnera

fwiw, I believe in telling him ahead of time that you will be leaving if nothing changes. It's the right thing to do, unless he gets violent.


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## Shimmer

There's something else he does which has always puzzled me, and this has stepped up lately as well. 

Ever since we've been a couple he's been kind've infamous among our friends for going off and leaving me when we're in public, at a club or party or whatever, to where I end up spending lots of time looking for him. I've never been quite sure what this habit means to him, and have assumed that it's his way of making me pursue him, or perhaps to show me (or others) that I need him more than he needs me. 

This behavior was in evidence very strongly over the weekend as we attended a local event where we (okay, I) volunteer every year. Him disappearing in the crowd, me looking for him. What's UP with this? What's he getting out of it?

For the record, people ask me on a regular basis WHY I'm married to him. He's an obvious alcoholic thus his looks and personality have taken pretty hard hits over the years, yet I end up looking like his reject when he pulls this crap. You'll have to take my word for it when I tell you I'm not an unattractive woman, so what gives?


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## turnera

Why do you look for him?


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Why do you look for him?


Interesting question. Because we're supposed to be there together? To make sure he stays out of trouble? 

Probably more habit than anything. A pattern of 25 years.


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## turnera

A bad one. Stop doing it. Nothing's going to happen to him. Except maybe he'll learn to stop being an ass.


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## cbnero

We are eachresponsible for our own happiness.

You say your are envious of your friends marriages. That is always dangerous to start comparing.

Personally I think you should be honest with him. Own your own decisions, dont justify your poor behavior by blaming his. 

If he is bad (not judging or doubting you here) then bringing everything up in full light is the way to go. Lying, deception, manipulation are traits of behavior you know is wrong.

It sometimes sounds like you empathize and love him and then justify not feeling anything for him at times as well.

If you are truly not sticking with your husband and leaving your marriage then do the respectable thing and tell him up front and right away.

Otherwise your actions are not much better.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## PBear

turnera said:


> A bad one. Stop doing it. Nothing's going to happen to him. Except maybe he'll learn to stop being an ass.


What she said. He's likely doing it because you feed his need. Stop doing it. And especially at this point in your relationship. 

One of the reasons why many alcoholics are "functioning alcoholics" is because they have someone running around behind them, picking up the pieces. Enabling them. Stop doing that. He's going to have to learn to function on his own anyway. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you been to Alanon? I can't remember.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Have you been to Alanon? I can't remember.


I have been in the past, but not lately. Every time I go he freaks out and straightens out for awhile, long enough for me to let me guard down.


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## turnera

Who cares what he does?

Go because you need it.


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## turnera

You notice, right, that all your answers are connected to a 'he does this/that'? You'll never make it out alive, so to speak, until you can stop connecting all YOUR actions to HIS actions. That's what you'll learn in Alanon.


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## Shimmer

UPDATE: So, nearly 3 months later and I'm still here... things are no better or no worse, so I thought. 

He's been making promises lately, big plans for the future - things he wants to buy, places we can go. Yet I go to bed alone every night while he plays games on the computer. Well - I thought he was playing games. He actually handed the tablet to me earlier today to fix something, not realizing all of his pornography tabs would come up after I repaired the wireless. *sigh*

Why am I still here, and moreover, why does he make such an effort to keep me here? Clearly I'm a distant third behind booze and pornography. I just don't get it.


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## turnera

What would your mother say? What would your father say?


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> What would your mother say? What would your father say?


Part of me thinks dad would say "That's the straw that broke the camels back, you don't have to accept that kind of behavior".

But I'm also scared that he would say "Well, he's been a good provider and you've been together for a very long time, I guess it could be worse."


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## Shimmer

The bad part?

If this had happened to one of my friends I'd tell her to leave, no hesitation. There's no reason a youthful, attractive woman should sleep alone every night while her husband sits outside getting drunk and browsing porn. NO man is worth that.

Too bad I can't take my own advice.


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## Pinkpetal

I'm sorry to hear that nothing has changed in your circumstances Shimmer. 

This quote helped me - "They say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself". It's very true.

You want to see some changes in your life? Start making some decisions. You're not going to see any changes while you are sitting on the fence and maintaining the status quo. 

What's stopping you? Has IC helped you to answer this question?


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## turnera

Shimmer said:


> Part of me thinks dad would say "That's the straw that broke the camels back, you don't have to accept that kind of behavior".
> 
> But I'm also scared that he would say "Well, he's been a good provider and you've been together for a very long time, I guess it could be worse."


If your own father would say that, then you should understand WHY you would accept such horrid behavior. If your own father doesn't believe you deserve better treatment, why would YOU ever come up with the 'insane' belief that you do?


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## endlessgrief

There have been some very insightful, truthful, and sad comments in this thread. When you disengage emotionally and they do not notice, you have your answer. 

I cannot even read romance novels anymore, and I have become a cynic about love and marriage. He is either sleeping, on the computer, or watching tv and CANNOT BE INTERRUPTED. I live in the house with another human being I hardly ever see and I have never felt more lonely.

Like the songs say, I WOULD RATHER BE ALONE THAN WITH SOMEONE AND BE LONELY.


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## turnera

endlessgrief said:


> There have been some very insightful, truthful, and sad comments in this thread. When you disengage emotionally and they do not notice, you have your answer.
> 
> I cannot even read romance novels anymore, and I have become a cynic about love and marriage. He is either sleeping, on the computer, or watching tv and CANNOT BE INTERRUPTED. I live in the house with another human being I hardly ever see and I have never felt more lonely.
> 
> Like the songs say, I WOULD RATHER BE ALONE THAN WITH SOMEONE AND BE LONELY.


Does that mean you're leaving him?


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## endlessgrief

turnera said:


> Does that mean you're leaving him?


In my mind, I am already gone. Due to finances, I have nowhere to go. However I believe with all my heart that I won't have to leave him. The rate he is going with the liquor and his horrible health, he may not be here much longer.

Morbid, I know. But true. Reality isn't pretty.


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## JustTired

I am married to a high functioning alcoholic too. I totally get what you are saying & going through. I am not happy in my marriage and I am still here. As crazy as it may sound, I "know" we won't be together forever. I am biding my time for now until I figure things out.


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## PAgirl

Sorry if this is personal, but you keep saying he is perfectly happy. how is your sex life? Does he give any affection? If you are so miserable ,.. how can you reciprocate sex/intimacy?


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## rrhouse

endlessgrief said:


> In my mind, I am already gone. Due to finances, I have nowhere to go. However I believe with all my heart that I won't have to leave him. The rate he is going with the liquor and his horrible health, he may not be here much longer.
> 
> Morbid, I know. But true. Reality isn't pretty.



What you're saying right now sounds so familiar. My husband is also a very functional alcoholic and I checked out of the marriage and ended up damaging it myself by being unfaithful and turning to binge drinking. You're a tough person for not falling apart. Stay strong! 

Judging from my experience, you can't convince him to do anything he doesn't want to do.


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## Shimmer

Hello all. 

I'm still here, all these months later, but have made up my mind lately that it's time to make a move. I'm miserable.

What's sad is that I think he's mostly happy. He sits in his man cave and drinks beer and plays games (and looks at porn) on his tablet and is content as can be. I sit alone in the house and spend time online, read books and go to bed early, usually alone. 

He's been experiencing some ED and was appalled and offended by my gentle suggestions about seeing a doctor and having some blood work done. He mostly sleeps on the couch to avoid me and I lay in bed and cry. I don't think he's touched me in a month.

Then we get up in the morning, go to work then do it all again. Occasionally I escape by going out of town with some girlfriends and doing some shopping and maybe seeing a band, which also offends him, but he deals with it. It's almost the only fun I have.

I came dangerously close to entering an EA with an old friend after doing some messaging online, so had to cut off contact before it went too far. What's sad is that the interaction was wonderful and it made me realize that I'm extremely vulnerable to male attention. Scarily so. I've been a faithful wife for many, many years and don't want to go out THAT way.

I've spent this week psyching myself up to do what I know I have to do. I need to leave, and file for divorce. Oh God I don't want to tell him, he'll be crushed and I hate that. I really, truly hate to see him hurt, even after all of this.


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## turnera

I'm pretty pro-marriage, but in this case leaving is warranted. I also expect that you can reconnect down the road - but ONLY after he has realize all that you do for him, and that you don't deserve to be treated like his mother.


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## Shimmer

I don't want to give the wrong impression about him. 

He works very hard at his job, and when he comes home he puts in more time making sure our yard is immaculate, and he also does the majority of the cooking and grocery shopping, as he's much better at it than I am. There are those looking in from the outside who say I have it made. 

This would all be so much easier if he were more of a jerk. 25 years of drinking has ruined my feelings for him... I feel pity and resentment when I look at him, but I still don't like the idea of causing him pain.


----------



## turnera

Are you going to Alanon? This is a must for you.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Are you going to Alanon? This is a must for you.


I've tried it a few times, but never found a group where I felt comfortable. Maybe it's time to try again.


----------



## Shimmer

I saw a new counselor yesterday, and I LOVE her. I think we're going to be a really good fit, and I've set up weekly appointments for the next few months to make sure there's no lapse in our sessions. 

She said she senses how much I'm on the fence when it comes to leaving him or staying, and has assigned me the "homework" of creating a list of pros and cons for each, which I've already started. 

I have no idea what the end result will be, but I feel more hopeful now than I have in a long time.


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## cbnero

No experience with alcohics or addiction, but kudos to you for making the effort and looking for the silver lining in your husband. It will be hard work but either way it is worth it. Wish you the best.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Shimmer

Update:

After three very productive IC sessions, my counselor recommends a trial separation with the hope that we can work on our marriage apart, since my continued presence in the home seems to indicate to my husband that the status quo is working out just fine. After all, I've stayed for 25 years now, why _should_ he make any changes? 

I'm very nervous about this. I have a place to go, as a family member has an empty apartment I can use at no charge, so that's not an issue. But I dread bringing this up to my husband with all of my being. My habit for the past 25 years has been to stick my head in the sand, save for the occasional "Come to Jesus" talk with him, which usually sets things on a more bearable path, albeit temporarily. 

I have never left him before and since he's in an "everything must be awesome because she's not complaining" mode, this will probably come as something of a shock to him. Wish me luck, "the talk" happens this weekend.


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## turnera

Shimmer said:


> Update:
> 
> After three very productive IC sessions, my counselor recommends a trial separation with the hope that we can work on our marriage apart, since my continued presence in the home seems to indicate to my husband that the status quo is working out just fine. After all, I've stayed for 25 years now, why _should_ he make any changes?


Right. Exactly what we said. 

Good luck. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself.

IIWY, I would write out how you feel and why you're leaving. Sit on it, revise it, and then print it out. Get your stuff packed while he's not there, have it ready to move, ask someone else to help you move your stuff and to be there when you leave (preferably a male relative). As you get ready to leave, tell him you're moving out, hand him the letter, say 'this explains everything' and start moving the stuff. Please please try to get a relative to be there with you when you do it. It will help immensely to have someone there 'on your side.'


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## PBear

Shimmer said:


> Update:
> 
> After three very productive IC sessions, my counselor recommends a trial separation with the hope that we can work on our marriage apart, since my continued presence in the home seems to indicate to my husband that the status quo is working out just fine. After all, I've stayed for 25 years now, why _should_ he make any changes?
> 
> I'm very nervous about this. I have a place to go, as a family member has an empty apartment I can use at no charge, so that's not an issue. But I dread bringing this up to my husband with all of my being. My habit for the past 25 years has been to stick my head in the sand, save for the occasional "Come to Jesus" talk with him, which usually sets things on a more bearable path, albeit temporarily.
> 
> I have never left him before and since he's in an "everything must be awesome because she's not complaining" mode, this will probably come as something of a shock to him. Wish me luck, "the talk" happens this weekend.


Good luck. :-(. I remember how I felt leading up to my talks like that with my STBX. But you know what? The relief when it was finally out and the dread is dumped off your shoulders is immense!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> Good luck. :-(. I remember how I felt leading up to my talks like that with my STBX. But you know what? The relief when it was finally out and the dread is dumped off your shoulders is immense!
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel like I'm about to take a plunge off of a cliff, or something similar. Absolutely terrified. 

But I guess it's not supposed to be easy to leave, right? That's what commitment is all about. My counselor says she can tell that my commitment to the marriage is strong, but that doesn't change the mess we're in. 

I've been on the fence about this for years, and it's exhausting. I believe I'll feel better once it's all out, but I suspect the process will be painful, and the work ahead of us daunting, with no guarantee it will be successful in saving our marriage.

I have to admit, I favor the idea of divorce more and more every day, but know that making one last push to save our relationship will give me the peace I need to make my decision, one way or another.


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## PBear

The other feeling I had was that rather than an end of a relationship (although there was that feeling too), the predominant feeling was that it was the first step in actually making things better for ME. Being stuck in a stagnant situation is awful, with no hope, often. By doing SOMETHING, you're at least moving. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> The other feeling I had was that rather than an end of a relationship (although there was that feeling too), the predominant feeling was that it was the first step in actually making things better for ME. Being stuck in a stagnant situation is awful, with no hope, often. By doing SOMETHING, you're at least moving.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm SOOO ready to feel this way. 

I've felt my indecision spill over into the rest of my life, and I now struggle with making a move to do just about anything... I feel I stay preoccupied with my marital situation about 99% of my waking hours. 

It's torturous.


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## turnera

I think your best step is to look at moving out as part of an attempt to FIX the marriage. Counselors often urge separation so that the two people can become un-entwined with each other, and figure out what their real thoughts and beliefs and wants and needs are. Once you're out, there's a great chance that while having to learn to stand on his own two feet without you enabling him, he has taken you SO for granted that he can't believe he did it to you. 

Like my H literally can't understand all the stuff I do every day; to him, I barely do anything. He doesn't see the 20 to 30 chores I accomplish each day to keep HIS life easy. 

With you gone, your H is going to have to face that. See all the ways in which you enabled him to not face his demons, ways you made his life great with no worries, allowed him to do what he wanted. It will take that kind of realization for him to finally respect you. Once that happens, it's possible to span a bridge across y'all's divide.

So be proud that you're the one taking a step to create a possible new, loving marriage. Of course, he may choose not to do anything. And that's fine, too. You'll be free to live the life you needed to.


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## Shimmer

So... I guess it's to be expected, but my emotions are all over the place. 

I find that when I'm home with him, there is a strong inner voice in my head, chanting "Don't do it. It's wrong. You can't possibly do this to your husband and family. You're going to be miserable. Stay!"

The minute my car leaves the driveway, another voice emerges as a cheerleader, saying "You can do it. You _must_ do it. You deserve a happier life and this is the first step. LEAVE!"

I hope I can find the courage when I need it. This is going to be awful.


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## turnera

Do you have friends or family who can help you get through it?

And you can always get back together. It's not like you're killing him and can never see him again.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Do you have friends or family who can help you get through it?
> 
> And you can always get back together. It's not like you're killing him and can never see him again.


I have considered sharing it with one of my best friends. At first I thought it wouldn't be fair to tell anyone else before I told him, but I believe I'm going to need someone in my corner telling me I can do it. 

I'll see her tonight and I think I'll go ahead and confide in her. She's seen what I go through first hand and I know she'll support me.


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## turnera

Excellent! I found out 30 years in that my mom always knew what kinds of problems I had with my H but, because I never flat out told her, she felt she wasn't allowed to bring it up. But she wanted to. So let your friend help you.


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## Shimmer

I did it. I'm out of the house. It was painful and sad but it's done. 

He took full responsibility for our problems, even though I assured him that it takes two and that I own my failures and shortcomings as well. He said he was fine with seeing my counselor, which surprised me as emphatic as he's been in the past about _never_ doing so. Then he left, sad and teary-eyed, and I spent a sleepless night tossing and turning on a hard mattress in an empty apartment. 

I'll see the counselor again Thursday and talk to her then about how she'd like to deal with the two of us. I guess the truly hard part begins now. Oh - and today I have to call our kids, who are all in their twenties.


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## turnera

Don't be surprised if your kids are relieved. Or if they take sides. Don't take it personally.


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## Shimmer

I contacted my therapist to inform her of the separation, and to let her know that my husband will be in touch to get counseling as well and hopefully work toward saving the marriage. 

She then asked me "But what about you? Do YOU want to do the hard work required to try and salvage this relationship, or is your mind already made up that you're done?"

I was unable to answer her, because I truly don't KNOW. She asked me to think and pray about it today and get back in touch with her when I have a clearer picture of where I'm headed. 

All I know is that I hate seeing him in pain and feel like I have to do whatever it takes to make him feel better. That's not right... is it?


----------



## turnera

No, it's not. Do some reading about why it is that women end up being the ones who hold relationships together, out of guilt, out of feeling like they have to mother/nurture/support the men, out of a woman's innate willingness to put herself last and even give UP what's good for her as long as everyone else is taken care of. It worked in caveman days, but it's no longer healthy.

Have you read the book The Dance Of Anger? I think you'd like it.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> No, it's not. Do some reading about why it is that women end up being the ones who hold relationships together, out of guilt, out of feeling like they have to mother/nurture/support the men, out of a woman's innate willingness to put herself last and even give UP what's good for her as long as everyone else is taken care of. It worked in caveman days, but it's no longer healthy.
> 
> *Have you read the book The Dance Of Anger?* I think you'd like it.


Gonna load that on my Kindle right now. Thanks!


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## turnera

My IC re-recommends it to me every time I start getting weak again about taking care of everyone else first.


----------



## Shimmer

*sigh*

He's asked me to go out of town with him this weekend, for a get-away. I don't feel like this is the right thing to do, so early in the separation, but I feel pressured not to let him down - he's been so distraught and during this discussion he seemed almost back to normal. 

I can't even talk to my therapist about it since I let him take my appointment this week as there were no others available and he seemed to need it so badly. 

What to do???


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## turnera

No, of COURSE you don't go out with him for a weekend! Is he crazy?

No, he's just trying to manipulate you to do what HE wants. "If I get her alone and woo her, it'll all go away and she'll go back to wanting to be with me."

He is NOT respecting you or your feelings. Tell him thank you, but no.

No other explanation is needed.

btw, him being in 'destraught' is a GOOD thing. How else will he ever be urged to do the hard work and get better if he doesn't suffer the consequences? He must feel the pain to want to change. You can't fix this for him, ok?


----------



## Shimmer

I know this much. My anxiety had gone wayyy down to a level I was really enjoying, and now it's back, full force. Racing thoughts, heart beating out of my chest... UGHHH. 

But the thought of disappointing him makes it even worse! I'm going to have to learn to be assertive, I guess. 

Does he not realize that this problem is bigger than a weekend away can fix?


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## turnera

Most men don't. They grow up being 'taught' that all you have to do to get a woman is buy flowers, smell good, smile a lot, and woo them. They don't see women as complete human beings with equal needs. (present company excluded)

Shimmer, if you go with him, you ruin ALL the progress you've made so far. Look at it as a medical thing, if you have to. Your psychology is just as important as your medical health. And right now, your psychological health NEEDS to be away from him for the foreseeable future. 

You weren't born on this earth just to please another human being, let alone one who has hurt YOU so much. Don't do that to yourself. Do you have someone you can call who will tell you you're wonderful and important and beautiful? (aside from him, who lies)


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## Shimmer

I just told him. He was very dejected. I just said he should speak to the counselor about it when he sees her this afternoon. 

_And_ he just called me back again, and he's angry. 

This is not a good day.


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## PBear

The two of you (him more than you) seem unclear on the point of the separation. Did you have any kind of discussion about what it would mean? How you envisioned things? How finances might be handled? 

Getting both of you on the same page might cause some pain up front, but might go a long way to reducing resentments and animosity down the road.

C


----------



## turnera

Shimmer said:


> I just told him. He was very dejected. I just said he should speak to the counselor about it when he sees her this afternoon.
> 
> _And_ he just called me back again, and he's angry.


Like I said, 100% manipulation, using whatever it takes to put you back in your box, and having NOTHING to do with you or your feelings.

What a jerk.


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## turnera

Remind me, have you read this book yet? If not, it's time.


----------



## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Remind me, have you read this book yet? If not, it's time.


I was in the middle of the book about anger you recommended when I left, and now I can't find my Kindle! Hopefully it'll turn up this weekend and then I'll move on to the next book when I finish it.


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## turnera

The Dance Of Anger? I think you need to read WDHDT? first. It will help you see him more clearly, now that you're away from him, so that you can deal with your relationship in an unemotional, clinical, and logical way.


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> The two of you (him more than you) seem unclear on the point of the separation. Did you have any kind of discussion about what it would mean? How you envisioned things? How finances might be handled?
> 
> Getting both of you on the same page might cause some pain up front, but might go a long way to reducing resentments and animosity down the road.
> 
> C


The night that I left I gave him an outline of what my expectations were for the separation, but he was probably rather shell shocked at the moment and didn't retain a lot of it. I think maybe next week when emotions have stabilized a bit we can get together and go over "the rules" together.


----------



## Shimmer

turnera said:


> The Dance Of Anger? I think you need to read WDHDT? first. It will help you see him more clearly, now that you're away from him, so that you can deal with your relationship in an unemotional, clinical, and logical way.


Will do.


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## BrockLanders

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, you sound like a great woman, but am I to believe from your posts that he only drinks beer? Maybe it's my Irish heritage but I couldn't get drunk off of beer if I tried.


----------



## Shimmer

BrockLanders said:


> I'm not trying to be disrespectful, you sound like a great woman, but am I to believe from your posts that he only drinks beer? Maybe it's my Irish heritage but I couldn't get drunk off of beer if I tried.


95% of the time, yes, beer only... but a LOT of it. Anywhere from a 12-18 pack daily. He sometimes manages to get _quite_ drunk this way. He also has a very thin build, maybe this makes a difference.


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## PBear

Shimmer said:


> 95% of the time, yes, beer only... but a LOT of it. Anywhere from a 12-18 pack daily. He sometimes manages to get _quite_ drunk this way. He also has a very thin build, maybe this makes a difference.


How the hell does he consume 1200 to 1800 calories in beer alone and still maintain a slim build?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

Just a small update:

We're past the one week mark and not much has changed. His moods seem to be stabilizing, where for the first few days he was all over the place, from anguished to angry and everywhere in between. 

Now he seems very committed to doing whatever possible to "win me back" and is bending over backwards to find a place in my life. I did agree to go to dinner with him once a week, and tonight's the night. He showed up drunk for last weeks dinner, so here's hoping he can do a little better this week. 

As for me, I'm content. I'm enjoying the peace and tranquility of my own little place, although I miss my furbabies terribly. Thankfully, one of them came with me. As for the husband... I don't miss him at all at this point, in fact my anxiety ratchets up when he calls, no matter how nice he is. Maybe this will change, and maybe it won't. I intend to keep seeing my counselor for the duration.


----------



## Shimmer

PBear said:


> How the hell does he consume 1200 to 1800 calories in beer alone and still maintain a slim build?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He has a very physically active job so I assume he's burning the calories there. He was also blessed with great metabolism, judging by the looks of his parents.


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## turnera

Next time he shows up drunk, USE your boundary and consequence, ok? Help him learn that it is unacceptable (and protect yourself from something you no longer have to accept). Show up drunk? This dinner is over. See you next Tuesday.


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## Pinkpetal

I have just caught up with your thread Shimmer and want to say well done! BE PROUD OF YOURSELF. You've taken the first steps towards finding your own happiness. I think that's great! 

Turnera is giving you great advice. Keep going. One day at a time. I completely agree that you must have your boundaries and consequences firmly in place Shimmer. H calls you or shows up drunk??? No way do you engage. You hang up or leave straight away. Remember, you separated to avoid that crap.

Now you start to show H the new, strong you. Teach him what he needs to be doing if he wants to be with you. You make him qualify himself, and make it clear that if he can't then you will be moving on. Although you just may find that the longer you are out on your own that you will start to look at him differently and find that you have outgrown him and his behaviour. Your perspective will change. 

Absolutely confide in your girlfriend! Celebrate this change! I know it is terrifying, but it is also positive Shimmer. Something had to give. I know how hard it was for you to take that first step. Big hugs from me! Whatever happens, you are now at the helm and can control where you go from here


----------



## Shimmer

Thank you Pinkpetal. 

Our dinner together last night was awkward. We struggled to make conversation, and I could see the panic in his eyes, the fear that this time I really am done. He bent over backward to be pleasant in every way he could think of. He reiterated that he hopes, prays and really feels this situation is temporary and that we'll be able to work things out. He was not drunk and said he's been working on cutting back.

Today I have another appointment with my counselor. I want to talk to her about that fact that so far, I don't miss him or his company in the least, although I miss the pets terribly. I'm not sure if that's significant or not? 

I appreciate those of you who are hanging in with me and offering advice, it truly is helping.


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## turnera

Here's what I believe. Once you leave a person who's been hurting you, and he states he must win you back...let him. Give him a year. See if he keeps showing up every week for dinner and see if he shows you change. If he can do that for a full year, he's probably sincere and really wants you back. If, however, he starts backsliding, making excuses for not showing up, then you were probably a convenience for him and now you're 'too hard' to work for. I figure that, by the end of 3 or 4 months, you'll never see him again. And then you'll know and you can move on without regret.


----------



## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Here's what I believe. Once you leave a person who's been hurting you, and he states he must win you back...let him. Give him a year. See if he keeps showing up every week for dinner and see if he shows you change. If he can do that for a full year, he's probably sincere and really wants you back. If, however, he starts backsliding, making excuses for not showing up, then you were probably a convenience for him and now you're 'too hard' to work for. I figure that, by the end of 3 or 4 months, you'll never see him again. And then you'll know and you can move on without regret.


He recently asked me for a timeline, and I told him that although I promised not to file for divorce for three months at least, that other than that I had no idea how long it would be until I made up my mind... could be 3 months, could be a year. 

He told me that there was no way he'd wait a year, so I told him that of course I understood that and he should do whatever he needs to do. He's backed down from that stance since then.


----------



## turnera

> no way he'd wait a year


Wow, that's some love, ain't it? 

As I suspected, you're a convenience.


----------



## Pinkpetal

"He reiterated that he hopes, prays and really feels this situation is temporary and that we'll be able to work things out. He was not drunk and said he's been working on cutting back."

In my opinion "cutting back" is not good enough. Your H hopes that this situation is temporary because you have pulled his safety net out from under him. You have always taken care of him, worried about him and pretty much enabled him. He is most likely very confused right now because he had such a comfortable existence for such a long time. You are finally requiring something of him and he has no idea where to start or what to do. 

Turnera makes a good point though - how much effort is H willing to make to keep you?? He has been extremely lazy up til this point. When someone wants something badly enough they are willing to pull out all the stops and do whatever it takes for however long it takes to get what they want, because it matters so much to them. Do you matter more than beer does to him?? If he is anything like my exH, once he adjusts to life without his safety net, he will eventually slide back into what he knows - beer. Pay very close attention to H actions over the coming months, not his words. 

I think the fact that you say you aren't missing him at all is very telling. To me it means that you want more out of life and H isn't it anymore. What does your counsellor say?


----------



## Shimmer

Pinkpetal said:


> "He reiterated that he hopes, prays and really feels this situation is temporary and that we'll be able to work things out. He was not drunk and said he's been working on cutting back."
> 
> In my opinion "cutting back" is not good enough. Your H hopes that this situation is temporary because you have pulled his safety net out from under him. You have always taken care of him, worried about him and pretty much enabled him. He is most likely very confused right now because he had such a comfortable existence for such a long time. You are finally requiring something of him and he has no idea where to start or what to do.
> 
> Turnera makes a good point though - how much effort is H willing to make to keep you?? He has been extremely lazy up til this point. When someone wants something badly enough they are willing to pull out all the stops and do whatever it takes for however long it takes to get what they want, because it matters so much to them. Do you matter more than beer does to him?? If he is anything like my exH, once he adjusts to life without his safety net, he will eventually slide back into what he knows - beer. Pay very close attention to H actions over the coming months, not his words.
> 
> I think the fact that you say you aren't missing him at all is very telling. To me it means that you want more out of life and H isn't it anymore. What does your counsellor say?


My counselor says that before ANY real work can begin, he has to agree to stop drinking, and not for me, but because he knows he needs to. Otherwise, anything we try will be all for naught. I personally don't see him ever stopping, no matter how much he says he loves me. Even if he does manage to stop, I'm not sure I'll believe that it's permanent, but only a stopgap measure to get me back in the house. 

She also says that we're not ready for joint marriage counseling yet, because neither my head nor my heart is in it at this time and it would be pointless. I'll continue to see her alone for a few more sessions and then we'll reevaluate.


----------



## Pinkpetal

It sounds like you've got yourself a good counsellor Shimmer.

So has H taken any major steps at all towards stopping his drinking? Besides telling you he is cutting back, which is nothing more than throwing you some crumbs and making it sound as though he is making effort.


----------



## badmemory

Shimmer said:


> I came dangerously close to entering an EA with an old friend after doing some messaging online, so had to cut off contact before it went too far. What's sad is that the interaction was wonderful and it made me realize that I'm extremely vulnerable to male attention. Scarily so. I've been a faithful wife for many, many years and *don't want to go out THAT way.*


Shimmer,

Good for you. Don't go out that way.

I rarely visit the R & A forum, but your situation caught my attention. Allow me to share a story.

I was very much like your husband once. Married about the same length of time. My wife was tired of my drinking as well - as she should have been. But she handled it differently. Instead of confronting me, she chose to display her resentment, withhold sex and to lead a separate life with her friends. She avoided me. This went on for a couple of years. Then I made the decision, on my own, to go to rehab; and I'll admit, my only reason was to save our marriage.

I completed rehab, got back in shape and stayed sober. Tried to be the best husband I could be. But there was still a problem. My wife's attitude and lifestyle didn't change much. The reason for this, as I found out a year later, was because she was having a 2 year affair with her best friend's husband. To her, she hoped it was an exit affair. But when I finally caught her, he threw her under the bus - at the same time I kicked her out of the house. 

I thinks it's fair to say she eventually realized; THAT wasn't how she wanted to go out either.

We're in R now, and you can read my original thread if you want more details. But I just wanted to comment on how I admire the way you are handling this. 

I wish you the best, no matter what you decide to do.


----------



## 1025MAB

Wow. I am amazed as I have read this. Word for word is me and my situation. I just joined this site and yours was the first thread I began to read. If this isn't a sign from God, I don't know what is. I can't reply anymore now as I have a 5 yr old to pick up and a 12 yr old at home, but I want you to know I am thinking of you and praying for you to have strength and courage throughout this process. I look forward to reading how you are doing on Monday.


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## neglected42

Hi Shimmer, I have been reading through your thread. The similarities between your situation and mine are many. I am married to a very functional alcoholic as well, and have been with him for 25 years. His poison is whiskey, and he doesn't sit home alone and drink every night after work. He always finds a buddy to drink with. Right now he is in the garage doing the "garbage". Always a couple buddies in there with him. Our yard looks good too. I am inspired by your strength in leaving, and understand your anxiety with his anger and desperation. If they could only let us go in peace, and work on sobriety instead of manipulation. I have one foot out the door, so my husband is "cutting back" as well. I think he has realized that he has no clue how to do anything other than the garbage and the lawn. I take care of all other responsibilities....groceries, cooking, housework, bills, 4 kids, etc, etc. I run this show, and I think he is starting to feel a bit nervous. My kids are younger, so I feel stuck. You never mentioned how your kids felt about you leaving. Did they know your husband was an alcoholic? Did they mention how it has impacted them? Were they aware of your suffering? Keep strong, and try not to let him break your peace with anxiety. At some point you have to start taking care of you. (I hope I can take my own advice someday)


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## Shimmer

Wow. I cannot tell you all what it means when others identify with my situation. I battle the idea that I'm asking for too much, that my situation does not compare to those who are truly in a miserable, untenable relationship. True or not, I fight these thoughts daily and know that my husband surely takes this position. While I'm sorry that others are living this too, it definitely gives me the affirmation I need to keep going. 

My weekend was mostly quiet. I worked around the apartment - as it was last updated in the 80's, this task most assuredly helps to keep my thoughts from racing. On Sunday I watched some sappy love story on TV and for the first time since I left, I had feelings of true sadness. I had been avoiding this but it crept up on me. Until now, I haven't given myself time to dwell on the fact that I am very possibly facing the end of my marriage. Yes, I agreed to decline from filing for divorce for 3 months and to give us time to work on things, but so far I'm not feeling it - I'm enjoying being alone. We're only 2 weeks into the separation though, so I'm trying to have an open mind. 

He's becoming more desperate I think, and while he calls me less now, his questions and remarks have become more pointed. He's asked me twice now if I plan on dating or even talking to another man on a "friendly" basis, and I reassured him I'm not. I have absolutely no interest in anything like that, in fact, quite the opposite. As I said, I'm quite happy alone. 

Tomorrow night bring another "date night". I can't say I'm looking forward to it, but I agreed to it and know that some continued contact is necessary if R is to remain a possibility. I'll be sure to check in afterward and let you all know how it goes.


----------



## Shimmer

neglected42 said:


> My kids are younger, so I feel stuck. You never mentioned how your kids felt about you leaving. Did they know your husband was an alcoholic? Did they mention how it has impacted them? Were they aware of your suffering?


The kids took it well, and I don't think it was a huge shock to any of them. Our middle son has mentioned to me more than once over the years that a divorce would not surprise him. The youngest used to get infuriated at him every so often and ask me why I hadn't left yet. They love him, but also recognize his failings and know what I have lived with. 

All is calm now and I think everyone is acceptance of what may eventually happen, except for the husband, that is. :-/


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## PBear

So has he actually stopped drinking?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> So has he actually stopped drinking?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh NO... only "cutting back". He had three drinks with dinner last week.


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## PBear

To me, that would be a condition of even "dating". No drinking. None. AA or therapy. If he's not willing to put in the effort, why bother going through the motions?

Are YOU in counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> To me, that would be a condition of even "dating". No drinking. None. AA or therapy. If he's not willing to put in the effort, why bother going through the motions?
> 
> Are YOU in counseling?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am, weekly. At some point it's supposed to switch from individual counseling to joint, whenever I'm ready, but so far I'm not. He on the other hand is desperate to begin joint counseling as he thinks this will begin to repair the marriage.


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## PBear

Shimmer said:


> I am, weekly. At some point it's supposed to switch from individual counseling to joint, whenever I'm ready, but so far I'm not. He on the other hand is desperate to begin joint counseling as he thinks this will begin to repair the marriage.


And are you following your counsellor's advice? They're recommending you date regularly, even while he continues to drink?

Is he in individual counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> And are you following your counsellor's advice? They're recommending you date regularly, even while he continues to drink?
> 
> Is he in individual counseling?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said she didn't see the harm in seeing each other, as long as I was on board with the idea. I can't really say I'm doing it because I want to, but because I promised him I would.

He went to one IC session with my counselor, which I asked her to do as a favor because he was such an emotional wreck when I left. She told both of us that long term, I was her client and she would like to refer him to someone else for IC, but he declined, saying he likes her and won't see anyone else. 

At this point it looks like the only way he'll get any counseling whatsoever is if and when I agree to joint counseling sessions.


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## PBear

That would be another non-starter for me. He's probably using "liking her" as an excuse so he doesn't have to go to counseling and actually work on himself. 

Again, to me... If he's not willing to put in the hard and painful work in fixing himself, there's no point to pretending it's fixable. It may not hurt you to keep going through the motions, but if you ask me, you're just preventing him from hitting rock bottom. Which is what he needs to do before he makes a serious effort to making changes. 

Just my $0.02...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Shimmer said:


> Oh NO... only "cutting back". He had three drinks with dinner last week.


So if you meet with him again and he orders a drink...are you going to get up and leave? You know, cos you have boundaries now?


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> So if you meet with him again and he orders a drink...are you going to get up and leave? You know, cos you have boundaries now?


Good question. I have haven't talked to him lately about quitting, only implied it, as it's been an ongoing theme for a long time now. I guess I should be more specific about my wants.


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## turnera

All you have to say is "stbx, your drinking is why I left you. If you want to meet for dinner, you will have to respect me and not drink. It's your choice; if you don't want to make it through a dinner without alcohol, let me know and we will cancel the dinner tonight."


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## PBear

Having "implied" boundaries rarely works well...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Especially when you're talking about an addict. They will NEVER stop unless given no other option. They'll fine every way possible to twist the situation to allow them to keep their addiction. Which is why I said - if you drink, I leave. No way to twist that.


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## bandit.45

I used to think I was a functional alcoholic. But there is no such thing.

When I drink I'm an ass. Plain and simple. I'm a binge drinker. I can go for years without and then BOOM! ....I'm a drunk zombie for a week or two. I lose friends, I alienate people, I trash what little rep I have. 

My lifeline to normalcy is AA three nights a week and one on Saturday morning. Two sponsors and working my 12 steps every day. I fail often. But I am sober 10x as much as I'm drunk, so for now that is good for me. 

Your husband won't change until he decides to do it for himself....not for you, not for the family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## neglected42

I don't know if I would rush into marriage counseling. My husband rushed me into it, and although the counselor has really helped in getting my husband to control his temper, I did not have enough time to work on myself. I was rushed into trying to work on the relationship with a man who was "cutting down". (And then falling back into old habits, and hiding his booze). I really liked this counselor, and now I cannot go back to IC with him. If you are enjoying your time alone, I would carry on alone and keep getting IC. If he is having three drinks with dinner, he just doesn't get it. If you are seeing him just because you feel bad, maybe you should tell him you need some time alone to process things, and he needs some time alone to work on himself. You have lived with a man and his alcoholism for a long time, (as have I). It sucks all the love, respect, and affection right out of you. My husband doesn't "get it" either. I know one thing, there is no hope of rekindling anything until he does. Even then I don't know if there is any hope.


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## turnera

There's no point in MC if he won't go to AA first and STOP DRINKING.


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## Shimmer

I had a good session with my counselor today. 

She says it's time to go ahead and let him know that his drinking is a deal breaker for me and that he has to quit if he wishes for our marriage to have any chance. I have no idea how he'll take this development, although I'm pretty sure a great amount of panic will be involved. 

She also said to plan to be separated for the long haul, as even if we hope to reconcile we have a long, hard road ahead of us. Fine with me, I'm very happy in my own little space. 

I'll check in again once the deed is done, it may be a few days until I can get together with him.


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## turnera

Smart counselor.


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## Shimmer

Hello all. Just checking in to report that there are not many changes in my situation. We're still separated and he's still doing everything he can think of to make me happy, with the exception of stopping drinking. 

Lately I've allowed my heart to soften a little and have been feeling really sad for him. He's sooo heartbroken and contrite, like I've never seen him really. Sometimes I struggle with worrying more about him than I do myself. 

And as for myself, I'm content. I'm steadily fixing up my little apartment and never could have dreamed I'd be okay living in such a small space. Right now it just feels right. 

I'm still in counseling and that's about it. I'll post again when I have something interesting to share.


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## turnera

He may never stop, but he may - when the pain of losing you outweighs the pain of losing alcohol.


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## Shimmer

Well, nearly a month has gone by, and my situation has changed just a bit. 

Just about a week ago the husband fell and broke his ankle, necessitating emergency surgery, and no, he wasn't drunk when it happened, he had just gotten off of work when it happened. Believe me, I asked. 

Of course, I couldn't abandon him, so stayed with him as much as possible at the hospital, then brought him home with me to my apartment for the first few days. He was very grateful and thanked me profusely. You could say he's acted like my dream husband over the past few weeks, save for the drinking, which has been restrained but in no way stopped. :scratchhead:

I haven't seen my counselor in two weeks due to her vacation and then his accident but go back tomorrow. I can hardly wait, BOY do I need to talk. 

I remain resolute, but have to admit, I feel terribly sorry for him, he's just pitiful. It all breaks my heart.


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## turnera

How did he get access to alcohol if he's tripped up in a cast?


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## PBear

turnera said:


> How did he get access to alcohol if he's tripped up in a cast?


By emotionally manipulating her? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> By emotionally manipulating her?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He left my apartment for several hours one weekend to watch football with the guys. When he got back he didn't act drunk at all but his breath absolutely reeked of beer, woke me up all night long with it.


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> By emotionally manipulating her?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But I do have to admit, although I have not bought alcohol for him and I won't, he's so pitiful that the temptation is there. It's a sickness we all share, that's for sure. He's about as low as he's ever been right now.


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## PBear

Shimmer said:


> He left my apartment for several hours one weekend to watch football with the guys. When he got back he didn't act drunk at all but his breath absolutely reeked of beer, woke me up all night long with it.


Is he back in your bed, then?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

If he's going out to a pub to watch a game, he's healed enough to go back home and take care of himself.

Time to send him packing.


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> Is he back in your bed, then?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but only by necessity. It's a small studio and there was no other way. He's injured - no monkey business.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> If he's going out to a pub to watch a game, he's healed enough to go back home and take care of himself.
> 
> Time to send him packing.


He went back home yesterday, and now our son is helping him. He'll be on crutches for at least 6-8 weeks. I'm helping by bringing some meals over, washing clothes, etc. I just don't feel like I can abandon him right now, and am hoping my counselor can help me out tomorrow by further defining my role when it comes to him and his injury.


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## PBear

I'm sorry, but I'me going to be harsh. I've had numerous broken bones, including an ankle that needed surgery. And most adults can get by reasonably well on their own. Maybe some help going shopping or something, but nothing that required 24/7 care. You're letting yourself get suckered in to his mess, and the only person you have to blame is you. 

In the case of his coming home smelling of beer, the appropriate response (since the real solution of him not being there wasn't in place) was to call him on his BS and drive him over to his place. He would have your number and 911 if he needed help. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> I'm sorry, but I'me going to be harsh. I've had numerous broken bones, including an ankle that needed surgery. And most adults can get by reasonably well on their own. Maybe some help going shopping or something, but nothing that required 24/7 care. You're letting yourself get suckered in to his mess, and the only person you have to blame is you.
> 
> In the case of his coming home smelling of beer, the appropriate response (since the real solution of him not being there wasn't in place) was to call him on his BS and drive him over to his place. He would have your number and 911 if he needed help.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sure you're right, and I need harsh. Remember, I've been living with this for 25 years, and he's using every trick in the book to keep me in his life right now. What I wouldn't give for this not to have happened, UGH!!!!


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## PBear

It's his problem, not yours. He's got your son, if he needs help. It's your enabling behaviors that had let this go on for 25 years. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shimmer

PBear said:


> It's his problem, not yours. He's got your son, if he needs help. It's your enabling behaviors that had let this go on for 25 years.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have guilt that our son is getting stuck with this. Should I not?


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## turnera

How old is your son?


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> How old is your son?


23, and a college student.


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## PBear

Your son can also say no. You need to deal with your own issues. If you feel the need to do anything, but him a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy"

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Oh, don't worry about it, then. He should be able to say no when he wants to - or at least this is a good time for him to learn how to say no. Your H has friends. Let him ask them for help.


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## Pinkpetal

Please stop and think about the message that you truly want to send your husband here Shimmer. 

In my past I had a spiral leg break and was in a cast and on crutches for 18 weeks. I was not allowed to drive. But the only thing I needed help with was accessing the bank, and grocery shopping. At the time I had 2 young children to care for. It was during the first separation from my husband. 3 years apart, before I made the mistake of believing he had really changed his ways and allowed him back. Sure, he offered, but I would not accept his help. I arranged a carpool for my daughter to get to school with one of her little friends. And my mother drove me to the bank etc. Other than that, I did everything else myself. Cooking, cleaning, laundry. Hell, I got so good on my crutches I could just about dance! 

My point? Husband doesn't need you Shimmer. He has mates, his son.....himself! You really took him in at your place and let him sleep in your bed??! Wow. If he isn't milking this for all it's worth I'll count myself surprised. You're playing right into his hands Shimmer. I know it's hard when you are conditioned to care for him, but I really think it would be smart if you took a step back. He's a grown man. Make him do for himself.


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## Angelou

:iagree:


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## Shimmer

You're all right of course. 

I stopped by his house last night after a meeting to drop off some pads for his crutches he'd asked me to order. You should see the state of the house, it's like frat party central over there! I mean, I get that he was replacing the living room when the accident happened and that furniture had to be moved around and stacked in other rooms, but the entire downstairs is in complete disarray... it was very upsetting to me. As if a middle aged man isn't capable of managing a home on his own. 

I'll be headed to my counseling appointment for the first time in a couple weeks in about an hour. I'm very anxious to see her and to get her help in setting some boundaries here, I'm about as confused as I've ever been right now. And he makes me sad, like a pitiful little child.


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## turnera

Not your problem any more. He had how many years of you cleaning up his messes, literal and figurative? You've done more than enough.


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## Pinkpetal

A broken bone slows down your mobility. It doesn't affect your hands or your ability to think. I'm assuming Husband is off work because of this? Then he has all the time in the world to clean up. If he doesn't, then that's his choice. Deliberately leaving mess so you'll feel sorry for him, or appearing helpless so you can see how much he "needs" you are manipulations that keep you close. 

You are obviously a kind hearted and caring person Shimmer, and Husband knows this about you. But doing so much for him has now seriously blurred your boundaries. 

Please let us know what your counselor has had to say.


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## betterthanthis

What happened??


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## Shimmer

betterthanthis said:


> What happened??


Nothing new to report. 

I'm still in counseling, and have begun attending Al Anon meetings as well. He's still doing everything in his power to get back in my good graces and seems convinced everything's going to be fine. 

I'm actually scared to death but trying to be strong. I keep reminding myself of why I left, and rereading this thread when I feel weak. He's so pitiful, and it still breaks my heart to think of hurting him.

I'm praying that Al Anon helps me to become stronger. Deep down in my heart, I feel like want I want is to move on, but making that happen is going to tear my heart out.


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## Harken Banks

Have the courage of your conviction.


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## Tirasleen

Shimmer...any updates? Are you ok?


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## aine

Haven't been on this thread for a long long time, over a year and so happy to see that Shimmer you have been brave and strong fo the most part and moving on with your life. Turnera, your advice is great. Though I do agree with PBear on the not letting him take you for granted when he had his broken leg. They have a tendancy to do that. You cannot change their behaviour, they have all the tricks in the book to ensure their needs are met and they are fulfilled and until he stops drinking you are just a tool for him. They may say they love you, need you, etc. but they cannot love you because their view of reality and yours are totally different. They have no empathy though put on a good show of it. His behaviour will not change until he chooses of his own accord to quit drinking, that is the simple truth.
I am in the same situation with a husband who is going for individual counselling but keeps slipping up although he congratulates himself that the slip ups are getting further apart ( a month is a major achievement) the last being in mid Feb. In the midst of this he denies he is an alcoholic because he doesnt drink every day (go figure!). I just started Al Anon and have to see how that goes. 
My problem is that I have so much resentment now, I just want to leave. My youngest heads to college this year. I have to finish my studies then I want to get a job and go. I have told him all of this and he acts as if I am betraying him. I am so wounded from almost 25 years of emotional neglect, abandonment and abuse that I am finding it really hard to forgive. I am through with the broken promises, the let downs, the hurt. He cannot see any of it and refuses to hear me when I try and explain it to him. I think he too will be in for a rude awakening, but unlike you I will not feel sorry for him. He brought it on himself. I just hope i can sort things out for me to leave.


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## jld

Aine, what do you think about showing him this link?

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## aine

[Aine, what do you think about showing him this link?]

I am the one who buys all the books, checks the internet, listens to the podcasts and yes I have shared this with him, even printed if off. He threw it in the front dashbox of his car. Days later i asked him if he had read it and he said 'only the first page, you know how I hate to read stuff,' Weeks later i took it from the car and threw it in the bin. I know what the problem is, I know I am no angel and can be spiteful and resentful. I am too fed up to be forgiving. I have done the latter in 2000- 2004, we then moved to another country and things were great for almost 7 years but we dropped the ball five years ago when we moved back to his home place. Things have never been the same and i stopped working at it.


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## Shimmer

Hello all - 

I just took a few minutes to read this entire thread and review what has and has not happened since we separated over 6 months ago.

1) He still drinks, albeit a loss less than he used to. I've noticed that I now drink more while in his company - more than I'm comfortable with, Not sure if this has any significance or not. 

2) We're still in join counseling. I can't help but think he's going just to suit me and go through the motions until I "go home". I've got once voice in my heading yelling and screaming that I should get out while I can, and another that seems resigned to the fact that he is my destiny, and who am I to turn away from someone who loves me so much - and I do believe he does. That love just comes with many, many conditions.

3) I feel an urgency that we have passed the 6 month mark and
it's time for me to make a move. Do people stay separated for 9-12 months or more? Is that okay? I don't know, but I question 
myself about this every day. 

4) I'm scared. I don't want to give up this hard-fought independence, but is living across town while staying married any kind of accomplishment? I don't even know anymore. 

Thanks all, I appreciate it if you've read this far.


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## turnera

Maybe it's time to ask for more.


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## aine

Shimmer said:


> Hello all -
> 
> I just took a few minutes to read this entire thread and review what has and has not happened since we separated over 6 months ago.
> 
> 1) He still drinks, albeit a loss less than he used to. I've noticed that I now drink more while in his company - more than I'm comfortable with, Not sure if this has any significance or not.
> 
> 2) We're still in join counseling. I can't help but think he's going just to suit me and go through the motions until I "go home". I've got once voice in my heading yelling and screaming that I should get out while I can, and another that seems resigned to the fact that he is my destiny, and who am I to turn away from someone who loves me so much - and I do believe he does. That love just comes with many, many conditions.
> 
> 3) I feel an urgency that we have passed the 6 month mark and
> it's time for me to make a move. Do people stay separated for 9-12 months or more? Is that okay? I don't know, but I question
> myself about this every day.
> 
> 4) I'm scared. I don't want to give up this hard-fought independence, but is living across town while staying married any kind of accomplishment? I don't even know anymore.
> 
> Thanks all, I appreciate it if you've read this far.


I feel for you Shimmer but you took a big step in moving out in the first place. Remember it took you a much longer time to get to the bad place and it will also take much more than 6 months to get to a good place, it is still early days yet. Keep at it for a bit longer. If you feel that it's not moving then make the decision knowing that you have done all you can to make it work.


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## Shimmer

turnera said:


> Maybe it's time to ask for more.


In what way, Turnera? Feeling kinda desperate over here.


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## turnera

Well, I would envision going to MC together, and stating, he's doing the bare minimum, but it's turning out not to be enough. Because I want to feel like a priority, after what happened. And bare minimum can't help me feel like a priority. I'm willing to discuss this, in front of you, counselor, to see if there's a next level, with more 'work,' that we can achieve. I just can't tell if I can stay involved without it. I'm ready to listen to what you guys think.

You need to make it a collaborative thing, with his input, or else it won't stick. In other words, you need real communication.


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## aine

Shimmer, really wondering how you are and how did it turn out. Did you go back to him or did you leave him completely?


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## brooklynAnn

Shimmer said:


> My gut reaction is to say it wouldn't make a difference. I've dreamed of a new life for so long now that deciding to stay would feel like a defeat to me. Maybe my dreams are pipe dreams, I don't know, but I look forward to doing things and going places with a companion who is worried about more than where the closest bar is.
> 
> At the same time, it hurts me to think of the pain this will cause him and I'm dreading the announcement with all of my heart. Like I said, this would be easier if he were a complete jerk, but he's not. He's a good person with a BAd problem, and one I'm tired of dealing with.
> 
> I just want to be happy and look forward to the rest of my life, and sadly that comes at the expense of hurting him.


I think this is the problem that most partners who stay with A spouses find themselves asking. How do I leave without hurting him? You have to understand he made himself this way, what about your hurting? All the energy you spend making sure he is taken care of and is ok, when he can't for himself, who takes care of you then? 

Stop feeling sorry for him. If he wants to drink himself into an early grave, let him. You have to start thinking of your future. You stay you will become like him, bitter and sick. Sorry, I just got off the phone with my aunt, her husband is a drunk for over 20 years. She will never leave because she worries about him. Meanwhile, her health is going, she can't sleep or go anywhere. She is now in a jail he made.

Please envision your new life with out him. Make up your mind and leave. Stop feeling sorry for him, it's not helping.


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## goodwife4me

Wait - he's functional, successful. Your problem (it seems) is that he's physically and emotionally distant. Alcohol appears to cause him no problems. Even you said so, yet you're blaming alcohol. Fix the marriage. Somehow communicate with him, whatever you think will get the message thru in your situation, no matter what it takes. Just impress upon him the ONE thing you'd like him to do (NOT quitting alcohol), make sure he understands it's important, that you WILL leave if he can't fix his end, and then check again that he UNDERSTANDS what you're saying. There is NO reason he can't simply be as successful treating you well as he is in other facets of his life. I'd also give odds that if he can do that (be closer, more considerate), his need to use alcohol will at least lessen a bit. 

When my wife finally made me understand she wasn't *****ing, she was unhappy, and that she would not be ignored, it came close. But then when she communicated that if I loved her, and most importantly, if I meant what I said in my marriage vows, if I was a man of honor, I owed it to her to consider her feelings and needs. It worked, and the marriage was great. 

I would also bet that one of the reasons he drinks is he's bored, and pretty much has the same problem you do, but just doesn't know it. He thinks he stuck in a tepid marriage. If the two of you can work on just one facet of your relationship, you can go from tepid to torrid quite fast. 

I ended up worshiping her, and realizing she took very good care of me and was always at my back. I will love her forever.


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## jimrich

Shimmer said:


> I've been married for nearly 25 years to a very high functioning alcoholic Our dad was a functional alcoholic but IMPOSSIBLE to live with! Professionals have told me over and over that I should leave. Why haven't I? I needed help with the kids, for one, Yep, our mom would say the same thing but our dad pretty much destroyed us kids! and in spite of it all he IS a good father. LOL, I'd like to ask your kids about that!
> 
> Heck, at times I've fooled myself into believing that our marriage is okay... until I see the affection and friendship between other couples and could cry with envy. And that's the scary thing about DENIAL - we fool ourselves into believing things are OK when they obviously ARE NOT! I bet your kids know or knew how bad it was!!


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