# My New Beginning



## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I needed to start my own new thread. For those that know me, you know my situation. For those that don't, here is a quick recap.

W and I had issues. Initially I went about everything wrong. Ya know, clingy, needy with her. During this time she was having at least an EA with OM. Went to counseling together and seperately with the same counselor. I opened up deep and learned a lot about myself. But couldn't change fast enough for her. EA has progressed to PA. She had moved out a couple months ago to "get her thoughts together". It was good because it did relieve a lot of tension, but I believe now it was the first step in her mind of the inevitable. 

I know it is a PA now. She doesn't know I know. I'm sure she suspects I know, but I don't care.

See the thing is I'm learning about myself. I had issues and although working on each of them individually I couldn't quite put my finger on something that was missing. Now I know what that was. I'm a Mr. Nice Guy. Which sounds good, but really isn't.

I placed my w on a pedastal and gave her everything. I never stood my ground. Deep down I was fearful of her rejection. So I wouldn't rock the boat and avoided all confrontation with her. I became emotionally dishonest with myself and her. All out of this fear and my fear that I would lash out at her and lose her forever.

I wasn't like this with her when we dated. But I loved her more than anything and over time with her personality - very rigid and black and white with double standards for herself and others - this is what I became.

Now I'm breaking free of that with the help of a book and online support group. I won't let this happen in the future. I can't rely on anyone else for my own happiness.

So I am on the path to divorce with her. By the way her EA and PA are with a married man. So I know that will implode at some point.

But for us to ever come back together we both must change. And I realize now she might not like the new me who challenges her and rises to the occassion. She thinks that is what she wants, but really it has to be on her terms. So in the long wrong without her changing, there is nothing.


Just wanted to start a new thread, for my new beginning.


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## sirch (Jan 8, 2009)

Congrats feelingalone! Get started living again, that is where I am and it feels great. Read my signature and grin!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I'm so glad you started another "new" thread. You are a good strong man. A man willing too look deep and discover yourself in new way even though it was extremely difficult.. but necessary.

Your wife will be at a loss when her OM isn't the man she thought he was or she may not care. She "filling" herself up as to not work on herself or her issues. It's a deterent...this affair. Not one thing will come good of her or out of it. It almost never does. You already know this. 

I'm like you...when they come around you aren't sure if you will want them back. We are better people now and want better people in our lives.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Same here - I was hoping you'd start another one - looking forward to reading and posting back


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm seeing that now CW. I did look deep and it was hard, but you are right I am better for it. In some ways I feel I've been released from shackles and can breathe again.

I'm on my way. I know sadness will still linger, but that is okay. That is part of life. I'm learning to detach more and more and think of her feelings less and less. I'm almost there.

I'm learning to let things play out as they do and not worry about the outcomes. That is also a trait of a NG. Thinking through all outcomes whether real or imagined. Paralysis by analysis. I've got a long journey to overcome it, but I will.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Sirch.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You know I don't contact my w at all except in regards to my son. I did that for me and it does help get to detachment. Now I'm doing for me and it feels good.

To D8zed. I've never thought about the covert contract thing. Since reading on the other board it is clear I did that to her and to others. What crappy dishonesty that is and was. Got to communicate what I want and not do that. Also the whole caretaker thing is amazing. I find myself doing that, going beyond caring. All for acceptance. It is an amazing thing you have opened my eyes to see. Again thanks.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm just posting for me now. Some thoughts I have regarding me. I will be a better person for me. I have the love and support of friends and family who will see me through anything. I've come to realize what I have is greater than what I thought I had just weeks and months ago.

Through my experiences I've dealt or are dealing with childhood issues that I never new existed. I went so far as to discuss those issues with my parents to let them know what they did to me. Not out of anger, but out of love. I didn't expect anything from them. But I assured them I wasn't angry or holding a grudge for the way they raised me. They did the best they knew how and life is hard on us all. I forgave them. Now my father's relationship with me is better than it ever was. We actually connect on a more emotional level.

I'm dealing with a weird anger issue. Where I bottle up my anger for fear of what the other person would say in response, but more importantly what I might say back. So don't rock the boat and try to please. No more. I'm learning to frame my anger from the underlying issue it represents.

I've come to learn that I've sought out approval from all people around me except from myself. That I create covert contracts whereby I assume if I do x then he/she will do y, but never tell them my expectations. So it is doomed to fail if they don't respond. Things like that. 

These and a few more things is what made me into what I became with my w. But I'm growing stronger and stronger. For I now see that I can be happy with who I am. 

But with the friends and family


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's so amazine how much we learn or gain from a crisis.

The Chinese have two symbols for the word "crisis"...one symbol is danger and the other is opportunity. 

It's wonderful that you are connecting to your parents on a deeper level. Who would have thought? The very people that helped to mold and shape your well being....the people that seemed to critical? Isn't it ironic. It's plays into what you, as an adult, are willing to do. You reached out to them and they came forward!!! 

How friends and family have come to you when you needed them. Isn't it amazing? I have been so fiercely independent. My H and I since we were teenagers never asked for ANY help. I decided to come clean with the people that I trusted..."I told them that I was having a terrible time and needed support and things to do and people to see." You know what? They came running. It brings tears to my eyes that so many were willing to hold my hand....

It's wonderful that you discovered the "things" that are important. Most of you all...YOU!


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## Waiting Patiently (Aug 31, 2009)

Corpus- You are absolutely right. When my bomb first went off and my wife left in the middle of the night, I was petrified and would sit in our home when our daughter was not with med epressed and panicking. I finally was able to reach out to dozens of people telling them I was in crisis, that i need help and need to spend time with them and their families, and most people came running to the rescue like a knight in shining armour. I rarely am home at night anymore when our daughter is not staying with me- it helps so much to spend time with people and to talk about what is happening. I encourage anyone going through a separation to reach out and ask for help.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it is and I needed this kick in the butt a long time ago. I finally got my copy of No More Mr Nice Guy. My project for the evening. Time to take back control of my life and the person I was meant to be.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

If you are like me FA..you'll read it within 24 hours! That when you know you are "hungry!"


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## sirch (Jan 8, 2009)

tell me about this book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. I could always use extra tips!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CA, yes I"ve already read half of it as of now. And I was doing other things this eveing. Sirch, this book is about becoming an Integrated Male. Based on childhood experiences -- different for everyone -- some of us guys have been groomed to be too feeling etc. It doesn't necessarily come out at once, but here are traits. It is about becoming the person you should be and not worrying about the crap. Most Nice Guys are trying to please everyone but themselves. THey could be successful in business or not, but not to their fullest. Always a doubt,etc. about who they really are and how they should really be. Hard to describe and it seems to depend on your upbringing a lot, but it seems to be a more common phenonenom in the last 20 or so years. Find a copy of the book and read it. I'm through the first 50 pages which is the background and history as it has been pieced together. It doesn't matter if you were the first kid or last, it matters on the cirucmstances of which one at the time.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

This is an interesting book. D8zed if you are out there today, thanks again.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm proud of you. Keep on, keeping on FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I've finished the book. CW you are right I had to read it within 24 hours. It is an amazing picture of my life and issues. There are exercises to do which I didn't. I wanted to absorb everything first and then go back to it.

I've found that through counseling I've already started working on some of the areas. This brings all my issues together for me under one roof. Amazing!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

haha! I knew you would read it fast. When I am on "fire" I can read anything quick. I'm an obsessive reader!! 

Are the exercises geared toward helping you become integrated?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW they are geared to leaving behind the Nice Guy and taking control of my life and becoming an integrated male.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Actually the confronting my childhood issues, and dealing with them was one of the exercises. So I actually started before reading the book.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's coming together for you. That must be really freeing.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it is coming together somewhat. Now that I think about it, my counselor might have suggested the book during a session and I kick myself for not getting it then. Oh well, I'm not perfect.

As I've said I've read it and actually typed out all the exercises and started working on them. There are 46 of them. Some are thinking about things, others are doing things, while others combine the two. I don't do all things NG, but enought that I will do them all anyway. Parts of the book really hit home.

To think I could put other people through pain to hide my own imperfections and seek their approval. But I'm not perfect and I can't please everyone. If I live by that mantra, I'll be okay.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA is it about 're-training' yourself?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes K it is retraining in a lot of ways. It is creating a paradigm shift from one set of ways and beliefs to another. One which is destructive to relationships to one which is productive.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Sounds 'big' -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not looking at it as big or not, just want I need to do. DOn't want to overwhelm myself with the magnitude. Attack it one step at a time.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

sensible! of course you can do it...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I am. I will. I must meet my needs first. Sounds selfish, but without that you become hollow, so it isn't.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Exactly you do become hollow. IF anything..ignoring your needs and placing hers above yours created this situation. Of course, that was ALL of it but a good deal. I know it was with my H.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it did CW it created the tension, the communication issues etc. That is NG in a nutshell. But no defense of her actions that is for sure. I think I know what she is now. Some guys on the other forum said she was BPD, but actually I think she is a histronic personality. Extreme mood swings, self centered, needs to be center of attention, drama, doesn't stay in a relationship to work on it looks for a new one, sexually casual in a way. Scary how much that sound like her.

Well I'm going through the Breaking Free exercises. I'm sure I'll have to do them a bunch of times to get it. But I'm getting the gist of what I do and did. That is always the first step to recovery.

That might be what a MLC is - a realization of your hollowness.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Another day and here is my mantra "No Matter What Happens, I Will Handle It". And "I Am Perfectly Imperfect".

Positive affirmations to get into my head. To look at the crisis I'm in as a gift from the universe. If it wasn't for my w, I wouldn't be learning so much about me. Why I felt unfullfilled. Why my needs are important. That only I can make myself happy.

I control me and no one else. I can do anything.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

at a low moment my mum told me 
you are in control of you
she's hasn't read any self-help books it was pure life experience talking - it has stayed with me


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's good to hear you saying positive things FA. I'm no longer hearing that it was your fault or you caused the relationship breakdown. I know, in your heart, all along that you felt she contributed. Not until you knew that she was with OM (for sure) did you start really allowing yourself to think she was a big contributor to the breakdown.

I feel sorry for my H and the ones that will live their lives repeating the same mistakes. How fulfilling is that? I NEVER want to go through something like this. I don't know if I will ever marry again. I know many say that and change their minds. It's just the heartbreak and drama involved is so intense. I've always loved a calm and peaceful life. It's one that I've chosen.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it feels good. I'm starting to realize that the biggest difference between my w and the other woman I dated was (1) I truly loved her and (2) she is the mother of my child. Number 2 is what made me fall into NG land. I was worried about the family so much that I gave myself to her lock stock and barrel. I didn't want the unit to come apart. But NG didn't help and then this crap by her.

So I am feeling empowered again.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

So FA you think the tipping point for you was your son and the idea of the family unit...?
I know that I have said this before but I feel lots of your underlying issues (as regards you and your wife) are really about very different 'moral' takes on life - for you the family unit was sacred...
it seems to me that what you are saying is that you felt by 'worshipping' her doing the NG stuff you could protect what you vaued most -a family life for your son...
it is heartbreaking when we realise that we have to let go of that stuff isn't it?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

She is nothing to me now. NOthing.......................................................................................................................................................


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Nothing....does that mean you are trying to convince yourself that she's nothing? Or do you think that you've completely detached yourself at this point?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

She is gone from my life as of tonight. I am taking my son and leving.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA, where are you going?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Let us know what you're thinking or doing? You are sounding different now. I've already PM'd you.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sorry about that guys. Just a very angry moment last evening. I PM'd you both back and explained. I just don't like two faced people and I was played.

The realization of how much I was played just got to me last night. Went to bed right after that post. 

Thank you for your concern.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Thinking of you FA. I hope you're okay.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm doing the best I can. My exW is unleashing my beast within. And she won't like it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

WHEW! That was a sucky day????

I worry that you are holding this in for too long. I think you need to tell her (soon) that you know what she's up to. I would also love to confront this OM as well. Let him know that his wife needs to know the situation. 

I can't believe you haven't unleashed yet!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't have everything I need quite yet totallly unleash. As I said in my PM I will be getting a background check done on him to determine where he lives. Also probably a couple more days of pictures. Want to have the ammo to unleash properly.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

And yes it is killing me to hold onto this information.


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## rcjhKU1988 (Oct 15, 2009)

FA,

I'm sorry to hear your latest struggles.

I just read this thread this morning and really, I should have read it before posting mine because I really feel like you are the same type of person as me and I totally sympathize with your struggle.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

With my w, yes I am. But I wasn't always this way. The difference to me is having my son. I value his wellbeing over anything and tried to apease. Big mistake. I lost my self. Finding out I had Mr. Nice Guy tendencies is a big step forward. Check out the book No More Mr. Nice Guy By Dr. Glover. Also there is a web site - www.nomoremyniceguy.com.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

To CW and K,

Thanks again for being there. And I'm not just saying that because I think you want me to, but because I am appreciative of your concern. You both are strong women who will do well whether with or without your Hs.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA you're welcome


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are welcome. You've been there for me all along this crappy path. I appreciate you support as well.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well CW, do you think I should make that anonymous call? I think I will. Just have to collect a couple of more items to place it.

Also a couple more days evidence and the OM's wife will get a little package.

And maybe, just maybe the head of his company will get an anonymous e-mail with certain information.

It might sound horrible, but he made his bed and he can lie in it. My needs are paramount to his.............


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I would call her and I'm not sure it should be anonymous. She'll probably figure it out anyway. You might get more info. from her if it's not anonymous. Just a thought.

The job thing....I'd might wait and see if he backs off from your W? Is that your goal...to take away her OM? Or is it revenge? Think about what your goal really is....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

The anonymous call was in regards to the audit. 

To take his time away from her? Disrupt the fantasy with the real world. Not revenge.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Just thinking of you FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Wren, thanks.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well today is my son's 7th birthday. He was with me all day yesterday and last night. Did his birthday yesterday. A little abnormally chilly here, but we enjoyed some time outside. He had a soccer game bright and early and then a baseball game (cancelled due to poor field conditions). But got him to spend time with a friend on soccer team. Went and watched his friends sisters soccer game so they could play. 

Then a good 3 hour game of Monopoly with me and grandparents. On to the Japanese steak house. He loves those. The chef was great and he loved it. He caught a piece of zuchinni in his mouth thrown by the chef. Did it up with the cake, singing and picture at the steak house. He loved that. Great picture of him, me and grandparents.

Let him stay up late -- had a fire going. This is what life is truly about.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Sounds like a wonderful birthday for any age! Happy Birthday to our boys!!

The 3 hour Monopoly games are truly marathons. My D and I have had to leave the game sitting on the table and continue the next day. She loves the game. We haven't played in awhile...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes happy birthday to your boy too.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I hate monopoly. I always lose. 

You're a great dad, FA. My kids love the hibachi places, too.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA sounds like a lovely birthday 
have to laugh though my kids were playing monopoly last night and it ended - (you guessed it) with one of them picking up the board and turning it over!!!!!!!! 
we all went to bed shortly afterwards....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Dobo,

Thanks for the compliment. Don't know if it is true, but I try to be, that is all I can do. I coach teams, have him with me on activities we both can do and let him know I love him. Yeah I love Hibachi places too. Unfortunately I tried to be a "great H" too and didn't as well. Hard to do with narcissitic personality on the other side it seems. 

K,

It was pretty good, just sad that it wasn't all of us -- ya know what i mean.

Yes I remember those days of how games ended. It usually was something like Risk with us where it would end after hours and days of playing a single game when I was a kid. 

Actually my son won - we play putting all fines and payments into the bank in the middle for hitting free parking and he hit the big ones for about 5K. 

But more importantly, MOnopoly is really teaching him to count money, get change and know what is going on. Most games teach strategy and such, Monopoly is a good "real world" game.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I miss the day of being able to dote on my son. He's now running around with a girl and going to the beach. He did invite me (sympathy invite). He will be home at 6pm to open gifts, dinner and cake. He asked me to cook for him his special meal. I think he's having a good day despite his negative attitude prior.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

CW I have been thinking about that - what it will be like when my boys are older ... I feel for you...life is full of change and grieving..

FA pleased to report monopoly is back out and game has started again - amazing what a good night's sleep can do!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, glad to here Monopoly is back out. Yes a good nights sleep does wonders. Waiting for another. Having really had one since I was at the beach in July. 

CW, yes I imagine it is difficult with older kids in their way as it is with younger children. I get to dote and he wants me too, your son does want it but at his age doesn't want to express it.

Well, it was a good day yesterday with Harrison. Heck today was pretty good on the soccer field. I scored 12 goals. Last week I could of but all went high -- kept leaning back which sends the ball up. With the small goals we play on a miss everytime. I was hammering the ball in -- felt good.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Glad to hear that you are still a superstar on the soccer field! Harrison must love that !


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not a superstar K, just learning. Had a lot of great passes to set me up. Unfortunately Harrison wasn't there today. Doesn't matter I do it for myself, something for me.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA that's great - and I am glad to hear that you can acknowledge that you are doing this for yourself - it's hard to start taking that on board isn't it? It's not just NG's who have trouble with that- I know I still do - I have been accostomed to doing things which make my kids and my H happy because that was how I understood happiness ..that was how I understood being a mother and a wife...I too am now working on identifying things that I am doing for myself...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes K it is hard to acknowledge. I thought if I gave my all to the relationship that was what was supposed to do. Don't laugh, but we went grocery shopping together, Carowinds together, cleaning together, laundry, you name it everything together. I thought that is the way it should be. I didn't work as much as I would have without her, etc. I lost myself. 

Now I realize you have to keep some independence for yourself. But I did all those things because of my love -- I guess that doesn't count for crap.

I know a lot of women who would have loved that -- I guess I just picked the wrong one.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - you sound like you put in a huge effort and I am one of those women who would have loved it - (don't knwo too many who wouldn't) 
I know in earlier days my H was great with all that stuff - and it counts for a huge amount...she has taken your love for granted - 

goodness knows what happened in my relationship - my H was always good at continuing to paly baseball - do weights etc...and gradually over time he gave less and less of shopping laundry etc.

yet he says he tried harder than I will ever know?

doesn't seem to be any formula at all for relationships - we blame ourselves for being too good, too bad, too lazy, working too hard...

the more time goes on and the more I hear of others' relationships the more I start to think that what we do has 'nothing' t do with it..people just seem to be on their own trajectories.....
their own issues???

who knows 
really missing my H today


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: There shouldn't be any remorse in losing yourself in the relationship. There isn't a manual for this stuff. My H was like you in many ways. If I went on a vacation to visit a friend (rare)..he would run around cleaning the house, doing all of the laundry, cooking, mowing the lawn and picking weeds, etc like a wild man. I'd always tell him C...you don't have to do that because I am gone. Having the house picked up was enough. I didn't expect the frantic housekeeping. It was nice but I look back and maybe he felt pressure. 

We did most things together..not because we had to but we wanted to and maybe we felt secure together at times. I don't know. His parents are attached at the hip. They are friendly people but they have no close friends in which they do anything with.....no dinners, no outtings. They are very exclusive. His mom has anxiety. It strange how my H has developed that over the last year. 

I lost myself "big time" being a SAHM. I'm slowly finding myself. It's hard to be selfish but it's ok.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Geez CW your H and I sound very similar. If she went back home with our son and I couldn't I would clean the house top to bottom, do all the laundry left, etc. 

Scary. I guess she doesn't want that. I did not because I had to, just because I could. Did other things as well when they were gone, it is all just planning. But I never felt I had too. Maybe because I was a single person for so long I thought it would be helpful. 

Doesn't matter now. I'm done with her. I can tell my demeanor doesn't sit well with her now. I don't even acknowledge her presence at the moment and she knows it. I don't give a rats ass either. To me she's dead, just like in the mafia. She is dead to me. Only Harrison matters to me. 

Her , whatever.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Too funny about the frantic housekeeping similarities. I did appreciate it but hope he was doing it because he wanted to (like you).


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> We did most things together..not because we had to but we wanted to and maybe we felt secure together at times. I don't know. His parents are attached at the hip. They are friendly people but they have no close friends in which they do anything with.....no dinners, no outtings. They are very exclusive. His mom has anxiety. It strange how my H has developed that over the last year.
> 
> I lost myself "big time" being a SAHM. I'm slowly finding myself. It's hard to be selfish but it's ok.


Corpus what's this anxiety that you are talking about - and what is a SAHM?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well another day. A little sore today from soccer yesterday. I was going all out on the field. Some bumps and bruises. But had fun. 

CW I'm sure he was doing for him and not because he thought he had to.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm glad you are allowing yourself to have fun, FA!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: You are in shape if you are playing soccer. That's alot of running and kicking and head bopping!
It's good that you have an outlet.

K: SAHM=stay at home mom
Anxiety...my H developed it this year at a greater level. Before MC sessions he would sit in the parking lot..not wanting to go in (we drove separate). Or after a MC session he would stay in his car for an hour. Not sure if he was upset or not but he did say it was anxiety. He would have it many time throughout the day. He wasn't dealing. It was pure emotion and lack of control. He was RX Zanax..which he took at night to help him sleep and on occasions when he had high anxiety. I was surprised that he asked for a RX as it would say "out loud" to others that something was wrong. Basically, ever time there was an even (MC, divorce talk, work stress) he would have higher than normal levels of anxiety. 

This was a new during the last year.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm getting there as far as "in-shape" goes. I will be starting to do other things to enhance what soccer has done for me over the last 2 years or so. It was fun. I'm beginning to understand the game better and better. How and where to move without the ball, etc.

Anxiety, yes I've had that. Learned to control it through breathing exercises - no drugs. Don't like to use medicine too much. Not because it would make me imperfect (although I never thought about that angle) but because I just am not comfortable just popping pills for stuff. I don't even take aspirin very often.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I am the same way with pills. I take a multi vitamin and that's about it. I also am like that with my kids. Don't take unless you have to....

Anxiety has alot to do with control or the lack of...and also what you are "telling" yourself. Breathing exercises are wonderful. 

Before my H left I suggested Yoga or something. Some of the bikers are taking yoga classes. I was like "that would be a great idea for you." To calm his mind and get "centered."


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes yoga probably would calm his mind.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Why is it that at times you feel so good and then all of a sudden you feel so empty? Right at this moment I feel empty. My little guy is sick today - he is with the w - and I want to just hold him and tell him he'll be better. I think that is why I feel empty, because I can't do that. And it sucks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's a reminder that you won't always be there. There will be times when he will be in your care and sick...then the shoe is on the other foot for her.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA it does suck and it is something you and I are going to have to adjist to - or maybe it is something we will always be sad about.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Funny thing FA, being a NG, you probably have expressed more feeling here than you have in your life!!!

I'm not a NG and the same goes for me!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, I believe you are right CW. I've often thought about that very idea. Why couldn't I express this to others without it being in anonymity land. I guess I was afraid my expression would be rejected. Now I realize what a mistake that has been.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

You know guys as cathartic as this place is for me - (you have no idea how it is helping me) I think in part at least my frustration and anger is driven by the sense that I can express myself here and 'be heard' and yet the right to express myself to my H has been taken. Yet still I have the on-going sense that I _can _get through to him. It must be false - I have these imaginary conversations with him all the time. I miss talking to him SO much....


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## Waiting Patiently (Aug 31, 2009)

Knor-ne more thing- for those of us desperately living the no contact rule with our spouses; I think this forum allows us to decompress and allow the steam out of the kettle; allowing us to vent through a safe venue without doing the same to our spouses which could be disastourous in those situations where the possibility of reconciliation is still present.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

For obvious reasons were aren't able to express ourselves to our spouses. Either it the no contact or divorce process or it's over or it's not appropriate....This place has allowed me to come and vent or just describe a thing or two. I really appreciate all of the imput that I've received.

K: I find myself talking out loud to my H as well...during the sad times. It's almost an imaginary conversation. Not daily mind you...just when the frustration begins to kick in. You aren't alone!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow, there appears to be the possiblity of a 2nd OM. Goodess, where does it end.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

What? 2 OM's at the same time????


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA - what's going on ?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW and K, yes it appears there most likely is another OM -- the weekend OM. I now believe that is who was at the amusment park. He was with her and son on Sunday. Doesn't live in this state, lives in her home state.

Yes, CW remember what I said about similar patterns and how it started between her and I. Looking the same.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Far out!!!!!!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well my son now knows about our future. He took it pretty well and well as to be expected. So sad, so sad.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Just keep talking to him, being honest, be yourself ...sorry for sadness


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, it was sad, but a relief to an extent for me. At least he knows now. I don't think it sunk in because didn't use the D word. That will follow shortly I'm sure. But he understands things will be different moving forward.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

God, FA. I'm sorry. No one deserves this. I'm glad you can talk to your son.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Its ok Wren, I do feel a sense of relief for his knowledge. Obviously not the reasons. I just told him it wasn't anything he did, just that mom and dad can't get along right now, but that we both love him very much.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I know the relief. It will allow him to process everything and ask questions along the way. As adults we get to process things along the way. Then often we pounce the info. on our kids expecting them to "get it." He will have some questions...I am sure.

In Jan. I told my kids that we were having troubles and were working on them with a MC. I figured if anything happened it wouldn't be a total surprise. 

Then in June we told them of the divorce. In mid July he moved out. They are still processing. So am I.

I can't believe your wife. I guess if she started visiting her parents more often....you'll get it. I'm sure she is telling your son that these guys are friends?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I guess. Who knows what she tells him. I can tell though at times when he is with me he is upset about something, but won't tell me what it is. I suspect that is the reason.

It will all back fire on her at some point. I will try to stay above the fray in all of this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It will backfire...there is no doubt about it. 

Many folks go with the path of least resistance. You wife seems to be one of those. However, that path is sometimes a dead end. 

You are amazing person FA...keep loving your son and discovering yourself. You are going to do OK. 

I look at my life in a year. It has to be better than now. It is already better than 3 months ago.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

In my experience kids go through a 'kid' version of what you go through - sadness, grief, confusion, etc they will continue to process and occasionally come out with some questions - it's a chance for you guys to become emotionally closer - sad but true...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not amazing CW that is for sure. If I was, I wouldn't be here. But I'm working on it. Yes as I told my father today, I will be able to discuss relationships with Harrison unlike he did with me. For that I am thankful. I'm just so full of hatred for her and I don't like it. I just want it all to be over with at this point. It is so hard to let go that last little bit of hope -- but it will be gone soon........


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The hatred part can eat you alive. You know this already.

I haven't been too angry with my H. I see him as flawed in need of help. A lost soul. With those thoughts in my mind, I give him the empathy that I would for anyone. It's almost that I am separating the person from the husband. 

Part of the fact is that I see him as having a more difficult in life than I will have...his future isn't going to be fulfilling. Because I love him, that makes me feel sad. Someone that I love is hurting and there is nothing that I can do. I'm helpless.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I just with you were my wife CW, an understanding person, with the ability to be empathetic. If she was even a tenth of you, we would be working it out together. But alas, she isn't. And that will undo any future relationship. She can't let anger go and adds every incident to a list and keeps track -- that is what wells up inside of her every time.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You know FA...life is too short to keep lists and anger. It is also selfish, on my part, it takes too much energy to do those things. 

I think the same way, if my H would only have the ability to gain some insight, like you...then I wouldn't be on this board.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Alas, too late for me and probably for your H. I hope he comes to his senses to understand what he will lose. I know he comprehends it due to his shame and guilt, but do something man, do something.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I am so with you guys on the anger stuff at the moment - I know I have my angry moments but I feel strongly (my gut is telling me) that it is way more important to accept and not blame than to seek any sort of satisfaction from sharing my anger with him ...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

My anger at her subsided today for some reason. As you said CW, it isn't worth it and takes up a lot of energy from other more important things in my life. I don't know why, last night at baseball game (my son couldn't play - sick) I just had a lot of fun with the kids and talking with the parents.

Just had fun and didn't think of her at all. Missed him, but unfortunately that is easing in the sense that I realize my life is what it is now.

Today I have some peace. Maybe because he knows more about what is going on. Maybe it is something else. 

All I know is you guys are there for me, with my flaws and all. I'm learning that it is ok to be human and make mistakes, that I am perfectly imperfect and people still like me. I know this sounds corny, but for a NG it is hard to accept. But I'm getting there and don't beat myself up for it.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

You're a good human, FA. And you will be okay!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Wren. I don't know if I'm good or not -- just human and right now that means the most.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

If you are caring and willing to take a honest look at yourself in hopes of being healthy, then you are good FA. Learning to accept yourself will give you permission to admit that not only are you human but good, also.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks again.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Nicely said Wren..I agree. 

I understand and respect that you were able to look inside yourself FA...and find the good, bad, and ugly! But you know what...you are mostly good!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree with CW and W FA you are good! 

but I'd like to take this opportunity to explain: 

can I tell you a key moment for me was when d8zed asked us if we;d 'do it all again' - 

I had to think about that and I came up with the answer 
yes - we are more than our personality types... 

I have been intrigued with what I 'miss' of my H..

and I have come to the conclusion that I miss his spirit, his soul, his being - which is VERY good - very SHINY - 

his personality problems are crap - and at the moment and maybe FOREVER he's being held ransom by them -

but his beauty, his goodness is there (somewhere) 

and FA yours is - on this board your goodness shines through - it just does and if this is the beginning of you recognising that and if we help reflect that goodness back to you "it's all good" !!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That was beautiful. I wish my w was like you guys so much. She just sees the traits and not the depth, but then I've probably shown that here more than to her or anyone else.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA it's not something you just see, you feel it, sense it with your whole being - 
if your wife can't see it in you it is because she has no capacity to - and so can't shine it back on you -
that's just what I think


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, I'm starting to see that about her. She most likely is a narcissist. Which explains a lot of her behavior. I don't want my son to be like I was or how she is, so I've got to keep my eyes open.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep that makes sense - only interested in herself - is that what that means - it is certainly how it seems from this perspective.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes narcissits are self centered people with idealized versions of something. I think she has an idealized version of what love and marriage are in life. They want to be adored, but when the giver stops or slows down, move on to the next one. No true empathy. Don't work on relationships - run from them.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well my little guy is starting to put together things. See I'm leaving the family home and she already has. I've been slowly moving things out over the last few weeks. I just can't stay here. 

Although I told him this Tuesday morning in his mother's presence it didn't click in what that meant. Last night while I had him it came together because of some things that weren't here. He was so sad, because this is the only house he has ever known in his life. He was like can't we move back in some time. I'm like no we can't. Well you could move in with mom and me -- again no I can't. I just reassured him that life comes with many moves and explained to him how many times I moved in my life and that the house isn't important but the family and love. I reassured him that both myself and his mother loved him very much and that he was not at fault. But he was so upset. I had to tickle him and stay with him a while until he fell asleep. He cried, and I cried.

My new life is beginning, that of a single dad. At least I have a beautiful son whom I love very much.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: He'll take some time to process this information. He'll always be with you...that is the treasure that we take.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA sounds like a great deal of emotional honesty going on between you and your son......


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But not total honesty K. Obviously I can't tell him everything that is going on but I am trying to relay to him my experiences in life. Something my father never did until recently. My father, even when around, just didn't say much of anything.

Obviously the w hasn't said a word to him about anything. I think it is guilt because if he knew we weren't together he would start questioning her about the "friends".

So sad on her part.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah I know - you can only give him a kid version of the events - but what I meant was that you guys crying together is emotional honesty - but you probably got what I meant...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah never did that with my dad. I told him it was okay to be sad and cry that I did the first time I moved. Of course I moved to another state etc. Right now he will be in the same school with the same friends etc. which won't make it so rought, except for his eventual revelation of no more mommy and daddy as a couple.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's great that he stays in the same community and same school. It will help give him some consistency in his life.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW that is why I'm letting him be with W during the week. So he has a place he can call home for the most part. It sucks for me, but I want him to have a stable environment regarding school.

And since we don't know about where he will be next year for school, one more year of continuity won't hurt. School boundaries are changing in our area. Big meetings and such just came about three weeks ago and they are tyring to screw our area. He goes to the best elementary school around here, but it became "overcrowded" this year. Physically the facility has no room for growth or even temp buildings. So the first option is to pair about 120 kids from his school (from one of the more affluent areas of the city) with the kids from the worst elementary around. They are trying to ram rod it down quickly by next Tuesday. 

Finally there are alternative plans which change lines for about 4 schools in total but would create an overall better mix. Sorry to rant, but this came out of no where just 2 weeks ago.


Anyway, to CW, Wren, Knortoh (I know you are in Australia and all ), but I invite you all to NC for Turkey day because I know I could use good company and you guys are good company. As CW said, you keep her sane, well you keep me treading water. So come on down. We might deep fry a turkey this year.......

By the way I won't be cooking. Although I love to cook -- or at least try --- my mother is an excellent cook so why even try to compete during the holidays. And I can tell you what, she is the best pie maker ever. Pennsylvania dutch homemade pies.

She learned from my dad's grandmother who was an amazing lady. I miss her, she taught me a lot when I was small. Just glad that I knew her. She did it all. Cooked. Kept her own garden until she was 90. She quilted like no other. She made me some special blankets which I've never used -- just came across them in the move. Sorry, just remembering a strong, compassionate woman that I loved dearly. I miss you Addy. Wish you were here.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My gosh...that was a beautiful post! My heart was warmed with you speaking of your great grandmother and inviting us to Turkey Day! 

I was close to my grandmother. She was really a wonderful hard working woman. A sweet role model for me. She always gave me the feeling of how it was to be loved.

I LOVE turkey and the works...it's very tempting. Who knows what Thanksgiving will hold? I may be divorced mid Nov. I may have a new job. I may take a trip to NC. 

I think the school redistricting is quite common. They are doing it here also. My D goes to a suburban school...no chance of it being redistricted. It messes with everyone or at least their heads for awhile.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Since I live in NC, it's even more reason to come for a visit!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren, howdy neighbor. Are you down east or west?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA... When my wife and I did this 5 years ago my D was only 3 and she was being bounced back and forth.. I don't think she knew anything was up.. Then again my D is oblivious to almost anything even to this day. I would have broken down if I had to talk to her like that. Would have given me more fight for the marriage. I know my SIL kept pushing me..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

She isn't invested in the marriage at this time at all. She had or has two OMs, so I'm not sure how to fight anymore.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I agree your situation is worse.. It's all depends on how forgiving you are. I couldn't.. For me that would have been the straw. The fact you are still some what in it is amazing...


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Wren, howdy neighbor. Are you down east or west?


Down east for now. Who knows where I'll end up after this is all said and done, eh?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

Yes, I could forgive, but she would need to change herself. Sometimes I wonder if I should have been more forceful when I discovered she was having at least an EA. I told her I didn't like the contact and that it bothered me. I didn't tell her to stop because of course that would be controlling? I told the guy to stop it too later. 

Wren, all the way to the coast down east or Fayetteville?


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Not that far east, Raleigh is only a 30 min. drive.

I don't know if I could trust after affairs, especially if the marriage was damaged prior to that information. I hate it for you FA. It doesn't make sense.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren,

My brother lives in Raleighwood as he and I like to call it. I lived in Apex for a year so know the area a little. I'm down in the Queen City.

Well it was damaged prior. I was damaged, she was damaged and sometimes I wonder if her actions were a cry for help or for me to just say -- stop or I'm gone.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren, should have asked eastern style or western style BBQ?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

You guys are making me hungry! and jealous - wish I was somewhere near you guys with a car and a tank full of fuel - it really is like fanatsy land - talking to characters out of a book -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, the question to Wren is a big debate here in North Carolina. Or as I say North Cakalaki. It is all pork based barbecue. At least my favorite, Lexington, NC style barbecue is slow cooked over hickory wood. They serve it pulled or chopped, with fries, deep fried hush puppies and sweet tea. The tea is so sweet its like they pour a pound of sugar in a pitcher. Used to drink the sweet tea, but don't anymore. 

The first time I went to Lexington, NC I live in PA. My fathers friend moved here and we visited. We went out for "barbecue" and I was thinking ribs or something cause that is northern. When they asked me pulled or chopped I'm sure I looked like a dumb idiot. I was like huh? Now I know better. The first place I went to turns out to be famous around her -- who knows that when you are 8.

By the way, just for the record here in Charlotte, NC we have one of this countries best fried chicken places. Named top 3 on AMC and Food and Wine magazine. Called Price's chicken coop. Deep fried chicken, with deep fried tater tots. UMMMMMMMMMM. 

Only about a mile from my house. I think I know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow. No sit down in this place, only carry out and if you ever watched Seinfeld, think soup nazi service at the counter. Better know what you are ordering or NEXTTTTTttt


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Eastern bbq- with slaw!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I love the soup natzi scenes from Seinfeld. So funny!

It's great how BBQ is different from region to region.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

This all sounds delicious - am definitely coming for a visit one day you guys - don't see any reason why I can't - now I am footloose and fancy free...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't make my way to NC to often in fact very rare. I am up in NJ.. I do pass through in flight when I head to FL.. I might be moving the family their soon. Wife went from not wanting to be with me to moving to Florida with me and moving away from all her family. Kind of odd... Still it's the best move for us.. It's scary but financially we will be a ton better and the stress will be cut in half... Question now is if I can sell this house..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, NC is a nice place to live. You still get the climate changes, but less winter and fall and more spring and summer. You've got the coast and the mountains so it has a lot to offer.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I agree about that.. It's just we are used to our northern type of living. Everything close by and Florida is like the north but warmer..  We are looking in the area just above Orlando..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

What's NC stand for? I am lost - I was lucky enough to go to the states with my job a couple of years back - but only New York...not that I am complaining...but you guys are making me curious..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

It's funny because I have lived in NJ and Orlando, as well. Such a small world for such a vast internet-land.

K, NC= North Carolina


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I grew up as a boy in Detroit, Western Maryland, and Pittsburgh. So I get what you mean by everything being close by, but this is the new south. IF you live in Raleigh or Charlotte, pretty much everything is close by. The advantage Raleigh has over Charlotte is you can get to the coast a lot quicker. But then if you love the mountains more, Charlotte is closer. Plus there is always Asheville, NC which is its own sort of place. 

I hope Disneyworld has season passes for you LH. 

I just want to stay here in NC. Would love to live in Wilmington on the coast. Its a beautiful little place.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well darn we had another rain out for baseball. Didn't start pouring of course until I was walking the field checking conditions and then the skies opened up and got soaked. Also my son's fall fun day at school was cancelled due to weather as well. Hope to have soccer game this afternoon.

In place of outdoor activities, I'm soon in the process of making H a plaster of paris cast which he was going to get at fall fun day. This should be interesting ----- never done this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I love rain! We don't get it alot here but when we do it means short-term flooding. Sorry about the rain out. Your back up plans seem like fun!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Turned out pretty good. He kept it on for 5 hourse. Getting it off was another story. Dang that stuff gets hard and is hard to cut without hurting him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

5 hours! That's a long time..he must be patient. 

Wouldn't that be horrible to have to go the the ER to get it off? Kinda funny.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

He loved having it on. He was even carrying his arm like it was broke. He showed it off to everyone. IT was really cute.

Yeah I could just imagine. So why are you in the ER tonight? Could you help me get this cast off. Why is he wearing a cast. I don't know because fall fun day was cancelled and we had nothing better to do. Is his arm broken? No, but it might be if I have to take this thing off.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes...it was FAll fun day and we got bored! (to ER staff)


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well another day. I am hopeful that life will be better for me. I'm exhausted from all the pain, sadness, and anger. It still comes and goes, mostly sadness at times. Sadness for what was lost.

I just keep reminding myself now that my son will be okay, that I will be okay. I have good friends and family.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA it will get better for you - already I can hear that you are getting through - have you started to plan anything exciting for 2010 yet? How's that 10 years into the millenium - unbelievable !


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes K at times I'm like wow I can do anything for myself now and feel so good inside. Then I look around the house and see something that triggers a memory and it takes it away and replaces with sadness.

Maybe one day she will see that she can't always get the euphoric love day in and day out. That real true love means loving without expectation in return. That it takes work by both parties. That the grass isn't greener. I could keep going with this, but you know what I mean.

Anyway so far just a week long trip to the beach in July. Down to Hilton Head Island, SC. I think I'll take my H on a weekend rafting trip sometime next year. Other than that I haven't thought much about next yeaer. I've never been one to plan too much ahead.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Maybe one day she will see that she can't always get the euphoric love day in and day out. That real true love means loving without expectation in return. That it takes work by both parties. That the grass isn't greener. I could keep going with this, but you know what I mean.



Bingo FA! I'm starting to wonder if most people understand this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I love to plan but this upcoming year is different. I feel like I want to but never get to it. I want to plan a summer thing.

I'm sad also.....it's a rainy sad say.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah, I hate rainy days now. They just make me sadder. I was reading through our pregnancy journal and first year book for our son. It is hard to believe that the w that wrote those things about me, is the person I am technically married to now.

Maybe it is all my fault. That is my thinking at the moment. I know logically that it isn't, but that is what I feel in my heart and soul right now. That I was to blame. She described the day he was conceived as we lounged around all day and made love. 

How I wish we could have done that again after he was born, but you can't do it like when you are dating and single. Life intrudes on that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's so easy to fall into these days of sadness. We are grieving like a death...it's a process. 

It's sad to look at the momentos and remember. I have family pictures lined down my upstairs hallway. Who keeps those? What about our marriage photo album? What about the baby pictures? I will keep those unless he wants some...but then I feel what kind fo person wouldn't want their family momentos? Before he left, I mentioned this..he was like "whatever." 

Nowadays I think he's more aware of his surroundings. It's like he was living in a fog of pain and anger...it's starting to life. He's realizing the imporatance of family.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Isn't it mazing how are our situations are all different - we are probably all very different people who would not 'normally' have crossed paths - and yet we can describe and explain and understand eachother's heartache - I find this so amazing and humbling - how different we all are - but how similiar we all are - I know that I don't really 'know' you guys - but I have shared things with you that I haven't told anyone else - and I feel connected to you all - I do...


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> It's sad to look at the momentos and remember. I have family pictures lined down my upstairs hallway. Who keeps those? What about our marriage photo album? What about the baby pictures?


As I am getting ready to move my half of the stuff into storage, I just had the same thoughts. Part of me wants to leave all of our wedding photos behind so that my H has that reminder of "what could've been." But part of me wants to keep them to remember the happy times. And then there's that other part of me wants to have a few beers and set them on fire!

I feel really bad for my parents. They footed the bill for a very lovely wedding. We worked for many months on making it the wedding of our dreams. Now I feel like they wasted their money. 

Some of you said if you could marry your spouse again, you would. I'm not so sure if I would. Yes I love him and considered him my best friend. However, I am still young and maybe I shouldn't have rushed into marriage with the first guy who gave me attention. Maybe it's too early to say something like this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

K: I know that I feel the same. It's an important part of my healing process to be able to share. I also belong to a divorce support group. IN addition, my family and friends I have also support. However with family and friends...I talk a little about my life but don't overwhelm. I know that I would run them off.

However, you guys are always here for me to run my mouth or fingers or whatever???!!hahaha


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes we are CW. But isn't that the beauty of this forum, I can rant and vent for a while. Then you can. Then K can. And so on. That is what makes it special. We can be our true selves on here.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA have had a long conversation with H on phone tonight..he is trying to be honest with me I think - but he is admanant that he has always had lots of doubts about us - and he can't do us - doesn't want to try and convince himself of wanting to be committed when he doesn't...he still thinks that I have accused him of having a romantic idea of love ....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That is interesting that he would think you accused him of having a romantic idea of love. Where is that coming from?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

He's always thought that since the beginning because I couldn't uderstand how he could separate his love for me from the kids etc etc...anyway tonight he said he was prepared to end up alone - he just couldn't do 'us'...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K right now he might not be able to just do "a relationship" whether with you or with someone else. He really needs to find himself that is for sure.

How did you respond to the "you couldn't understand the seperation"?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

He said he can't really either - but he obviously can 
I know FA he does need to find himself - and proabably can't do a relationship with anyone 
but he sure doesn't want one with me.....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't forget K that people say things that they might not mean, when confused and hurting on the inside. Just keep on with yourself. You are strong. Just remember that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes K...they do say and do things when they are confused and hurtings as FA says. Although it still stings to hear them say it!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks guys not sure he's that confused anymore - if you read my thread you'll see what I mean.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I did K...he sounds sure. He probably was sure when he married you as well.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Sure of what? Sure that he wanted to marry me ? He says that he thought it was the right thing to do...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Sure that he loved you enough to marry you...sure that he was "in love" when you were pregnant with your first child. 

I don't believe your H was never in love with you. Not with the kind of relationship that you had...It doesn't make sense. Maybe he felt like it was the right thing but there was love. There had to have been.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep I guess so - just not the sort of love he needs to feel to commit.............no matter how you look at it he has felt that he settled for 'less' than full emotional satisfaction .........and now he wants more..

FA sorry for taking up your thread


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Never apologize K. I understand.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Our threads get comingled sometimes! haha

K: He did settle (maybe) for less than full emotional satisfaction...and he probably does want more. How does a NG get full emotional satisfaction? By being emotionally honest.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But he has to learn how to do that. No covert contracts with people, putting his needs above all others except children, I'm not talking don't consider other's feelings but you can't be ruled from them. And just be open. It sound so simple, but for us it isn't. We've been this way a long time - always under the surface - at least I know I've been.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He has to have the willingness to learn. 

He may not want to learn.

He may never learn.

Like my H.

We are the problem now.

In the future, they will be the problem. 

That is when they sink or swim.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes he does have to have the willingness to learn. And also the heart to go through it all. It aint easy changing many years of thinking and doing - especially since it is subconcious level stuff.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Our threads get comingled sometimes! haha
> 
> K: He did settle (maybe) for less than full emotional satisfaction...and he probably does want more. How does a NG get full emotional satisfaction? By being emotionally honest.


So CW are you saying that the ability to be satisfied is in him? 
I think he thinks he is being emotionally honest now - depsite the fallout... so he should be more emotionally satisfied and therefore happier? 
He is - now he just has the regrets (which he says are many - not sure what they are) and the guilt (not sure what the main thing that he is gulity about -staying with me when he didn't love me or leaving me after 14 years..take you pick - he gets wild with me when I ask what he is guilty about - but this is a genuine question)...

am i confused or just not wanting to face truth?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Absolutely-I think the ability to be satisfied is within us all. It's when we look for outside resources that this satisfaction falls short. 

However, I think there will be moments when even the most satisfied person falls short. We are humans. When our H aren't satisfied emotionally..it's not this rare occurance. It's a life that they have lived their WHOLE lives! 

He seems to be more open and honest with you. He is being emotionally honest it seems. He is feeling these feelings and even though it may be "unkind" in NG behavior..it's his truth. It seems to be a relatively new event for him to be able to say hurtful things to you openly. He knows this is hurtful but says them anyway. It's progress for him. Hurtful to you. 

Who knows what will really come of your marriage or what is the truth NOW? You have many months to "deal" with your H and his behavior. I would quit talking the emotional stuff with him...unless you can handle it (his truth). To me...talking about my relationship is "what's the point?"

I allow him to make his "moves" (subtle ones). I keep moving on. I keep doing what I want or feel like. 

You H is further away as he feels that he "tried." 

You keep moving on K, like you have....

Arrange for the solicitor if he can't get it together soon. 

Why be in financial limbo?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep okay - he could be satisfied - he knows this - he's not an idiot - but honestly he isn't - and he doesn't want to try anymore - I am getting to the crux of my frustration now 

I can't believe that someone would finally realise all this stuff about themselves and not want to approach their relationship (Which they admit hasn't been bad) with this under their belt - use it to make things better - amazing even....
how can he not want to try now he knows this about himself? 

But for him just admitting it meant that he had to get out -
The whole relationship is tainted with the emotional dishonesty and that is why he can't see the good stuff....

the main issue for him is that he had doubts he never shared...
he couldn't be fully present....

weird.

is your H also so messed up?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

A while back I said to you both that as they realize and overcome their NG tendencies that things would be different. K, this is what I am talking about. Right now he is thinking of him first, which in a strange way to you is very good for him. 

He has to play the string out so to speak. He knows you are a great woman, he just has to get back through all of is BS to get there. It will take time, in the end I believe it will depend on where you are and not him.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA your support means a lot to me - and your faith that he may find his way back - I think he is much happier appreciating my many fine qualities from afar...

I do get it that he has to go through this particulalry if emotional dishonesty was so big in his life - but I don't see how he can ever overcome all the **** - I mean I think he will work stuff out - but I don't think he'll ever be able to look back on our relationship with joy or happiness...it has been too painful he will move on and start again - wife #2 will get the benefits of my pain - I know this is a bitter thing to say - but that's how I feel - he's improving himself but not because he wants to come back a better person ...

when he was still at home I said to him one night -

I am just focussing on me being in a happy place with the boys -
and he said "I want to be there" 

it's the stuff like this that he said that keeps me hanging on - but I no longer knwo what it means...

I am not hopeful at all anymore - really I think my last little bit has extinguished -

but I think what you are saying is that at the end of the day all I can do is focus on myself...hey ? 

whatever life brings it will bring...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't know how much they analyze themselves. Maybe my H does more than I think (which is barely if even). Your H seems to be doing more work. 

He is going to be selfish during this time. He feels that he deserves it as he's sacrificed himself for his marriage (you). I know it sounds ridiculous but being emotionally dishonest and discovering that you are...is mind blowing for them. It gives you the reason why you are so discontent.

FA is realizing his flaws but is discovering his wife as well. He's looking through a different lens.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW my lenses are no longer rose colored. Enough said. I just wish they weren't 2 years ago. OH well, can't change the past.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah thanks CW I guess it is mind blowing to find out that you are
emotionally dishonest....while I see it as fixable personality trait 
for him it all adds up to one big lie - our relationship - with me at the centre - couldn't love me didn't love me - thought he was a f*** up ...something happened (OW) and he thought I am not a f***up I have just been in a bad relationship - she's not a bad person - it's not her fault - I just was never honest - and if I would have been 14 years ago we wouldn't be here now - I would have met someone I truly loved and had a happier life with them...
(regrets regrets) 

this is where his inability to think with any delicacy emotionally comes through - it's so dramatic - who honestly leaves their 14 year relationship (and children) on a spur and returns on a spur and thinks that's ok? 

but as you have said so many times CW - it's free will - he is going to choose to work this out however he does - in this case on his lonesome - miserable, guilty but not as pressured...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, don't think for a moment that he didn't love you, he just didn't know how to express it and show it. He did love you. If he didn't no matter how much of a NG he was, it wouldn't matter. He had to love you to be a NG. I know it doesn't make sense. But I loved my w deeply. Because of how much I loved her I allowed myself to become what I am. SO please don't discount his love. I know my w does, but don't. It doesn't necessarily make a difference at this time, but I believe in the future it will for you and for him.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA I have been raving to my counsellor this morning about you guys - about how cathartic it is to vent, how great it is to find fellow travellers, how invaluable it is to get the other person's perspective and how I have had such great support and advice on here...
thank you so much - you take so much time to answer and I can be demanding! as CW says so introspective! 

my counsellor and I were talking about how memory works for people who have been through childhood trauma - where there was no reflection/discussion etc. Appaprently in these cases memory works like a series of snapshots with no connecting narrative - this is so much how my h seems to describe our relationship - separate moments that he connects with the narrative of I never really loved her....I find this really interesting because early on I made the observation that he used to relate all the same events and conenct with the narrative - that's why I love you - it's the connecting tissue that he has trouble with - for a long time the narrative that has made sense has been the one that says I never loved her...

we were also talking about how he thinks I criticise him for having a romantic notion of love - I don't - I think we all have a romantic notion of love - but the difference is that romance for me means being with the father of my children, going through pain together and still loving...his idea of romance is different that's all.. but we all need that - I don't think anyone could read our posts and think we are not romantic -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes in that way I think your h and w are similar with this idolized version of what love is supposed to be. To me love is being there for each other especially when things are down. SHaring time and chores. PRaising each other. I always did that. I just turned inward during a time of high stress. I just didn't turn inward from her, but from my family as well.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Turning inward isn't good is it? especially if it means turning away from those who you love and who love you - I feel sad that my H and I haven't been able to have conversations about what love is - he just says I love you or I don't love you - that's the extent of it - I think trying to describe what love is for you is really useful...

on another note - are you a planner FA? or do you like to let life 'happen'?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not really a planner per se. Socially I just let things happen. In some things I am a planner though. My w is a planner socially but not in most other things.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

hmmm what do you mean socially? 
I have been thinking about how I have been generally happy to let life happen - but when big things happen in life you need to plan a lot of stuff to get yourself back on your feet....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

She was got to have a plan for the weekend, etc. Go to back to West Virginia (where she is from). She is still very tied to her home. For me I grew up moving around so I don't feel I have a home to worry about. I was always more laid back about that. Oh well. I'll talk later. Got a lot to do today.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Good luck on your move FA!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Good luck FA! Thinking of you!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Good luck FA.... Sorry not able to follow as much.. Not on computer much as I am trying to change a bad habit from coming back into my life..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks guys. I've got all the big stuff of mine moved. Been a long day. Still have to split up my son's toys and a couple of other things. 

I'm just glad that part is over with.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Once this job is done you never have to do it again! tick it off the list and feel proud of yourself..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah, well I think this is finally becoming reality with my w. I actually asked my father to get her some boxes which he gave her yesterday and she was thankful. She wasn't all smiles when he gave them to her. Today we were talking and her mom is coming down to help her get her stuff and do a yard sale Saturday morning. And she actually said and wanted to be clear about it that "I don't think there should be anyone else around but me Mom, Ray (her mother's 2nd h) and Harrison when we are at the house." Well no [email protected]#T. Of course it is most likely that she is hiding it all from her mom -- which she is because mom will be like well when did this start, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Reality for sure! As a mom...I know even before things are said..what is up. I'd be willing to bet her mom knows what's up! At the very least she has a "feeling." Just the wording and facial gestures alone are give away to me as a mom...

Who did she (your wife) say these things to (regarding who was to be at the house)? YOU? Why would she tell you this?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes she told me this. Why? Who knows other than probably just another lie although I could check up on that easily. So I really don't know except maybe she is just hitting a reality of sorts. 

Had a good evenings rest last night. Oh well.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You should have a good feeling. It's like you know what's going to happen and your just waiting for it. Reality will hit soon and she will have to address all these issues ALONE.. The longer you seem COLD about it the quicker she will face it. Not nasty to her just cold. Seem like your having a better time now.. You will have the choice eventually I think. Now the question will be if you want to or not...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

Will she be really alone with the OMs? Of course they don't know about each other. Why is she worried about decorum now. I'm gone in her mind anyway.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA-- Trust me.. She will face this eventually. It will smack her when there is no crutch around (you).. Lust is a DANGEROUS emotion. It gives you extreme highs but quick lows. Kind of like Red Bull.. You crash and burn faster casue you are building nothing but emotions. Relationships are so much more involved. It's not going to happen right away but someday you will see..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Remember LH that I believe she is a narcissist. They need constant adoration, admiration and affection. Initially when they like someone they place them on a pedestal during the euphoric phase, but when the other doesn't give them the narcissist supply of the aforementioned, then they move on to the next supplier of it. So do they really get deep? Was there real love? Who knows.

But I do believe she will realize it one day. Just won't be anytime soon in my opinion. I know with your w it took a while but then she never PAd.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My wife has a battle with that. I call it low self-esteem. She needs to be fed consistant attention from other people to make her feel good. It can't last.. Yes she will see deeper eventually. Time can not be erased that fast.. Everybody is different but we are the same also. The difference is time. What took my wife 2 months might take yours a year. Question will be if your around when she does see it.. I don't know thats up to you..

My wife had a lot of internal battles and still does.. Last night she had a panic attack and popped a zanax.. It ruined the whole night.. So I sent her a text this morning that I am here for her now and always.. It's a determination.. I would go to the ends of the earth for our marriage and I will continue to fight for better until we are there. With you I told you I couldn't stand by that. if my wife EVER did that we are so done.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I understand LH. But when I was trying to be the "man" and with a tendency to be a NG I had a hand in those issues. She has hers. I have mine. But I grew up in the church and do believe that we are err, to forgive another is the greatest gift. Doesn't mean you forget, doesn't mean you could be with that person. But forgive them if they truly are sorry and try to be better.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Forgiving means never to throw it back at them. I couldn't forgive my wife for that. We seem to love and hold back from letting go.. I know its hard. Everybody is afraid to get burned. Especially with you.. You been burned bad.. I commend you for still being there. Even though your going through seperation you are still there. I hope you see how the NG tendancies are so hurtful. It blocks true feelings and they are needed in a relationship good and bad..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Forgiveness even when the spouse doesn't say "sorry" is the most difficult task. 

Why forgive when the other person is repeating the same mistake? Because it releases YOU from the anger, resentment and other toxic emotions. Forgiveness for you is peace. 

It's the most difficult thing to do when the other person hasn't owned up to their problem.

Forgiveness means that you can recognize it's THEIR problem. Forgiveness is an understanding that THEY are flawed..maybe from childhood or selfishness or mental illness or lack of morals. 

You still have to protect yourself. You still may need to stay away and never contact them again. It depends on the circumstances.

It's one of those concepts that you often don't think you are capable of..until you do it. I also believe that it may be a process as well.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes LH I understand how hurtful they are now because it is emotional dishonesty to them. Better to have them hate you for your true self, than to love you for not rocking the boat.


CW, you asked a question yesterday of who she said the thing about the house. She said it to me. Why, as I said before I don't know.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It sounds like she knows that you know!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

At least you guys will grow one way or another. It's a shame that all relationships need to get to this point for it to happen..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW she has to realize I know something. Maybe she is realizing the effect it will have on my son especially with OM#1 since he is married.

LH, yes I'm growing. Don't think she has started yet. Have to realize you have issues first for it to start. You are right though. A friend of mine and his wife were having issues. His w absolutely hated him and resented him (this according to my wife). He tried and tried and nothing was working until she accepted that she had issues. Of course this didn't take a year but a couple of months. My w couldn't believe she could have reversed so much from only a few months earlier. See she doesn't realize why both spouses have to look in the mirror for changes in the relationship to occur.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA-- The fact oyu are is all that matters. It will eventually shift her blame from you to herself cause she can't point any longer. It took my wife to see my changes for her to see the issues with her. She is only now seeing it. Has no clue what to do but at least she has taken the first steps..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

FA and LH are two wise men. I really learn a lot from your posts.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren, I'm not wise just human and living through tough times is all. LH has done the work on himself and has a great way of describing things and I do find wisdom in his words.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I disagree FA. Being present in life and in your humanity brings about wisdom!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree..I love your posts FA and LH. It's always insightful to read the words.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, got most of my part of move done. W hasn't really done a thing. Still have to do some cleaning. Took off yesterday and spent with my son since he didn't have school. Messed around with him all day - building things with a set, to a park and eventually his first visit to a haunted house. Actually an old textile mill turned into a haunted house -- 33 rooms to go through. He didn't scream or anything but was scared. Held his hand all the way through. At the end a scary clown asked him if he wanted a balloon and he sad yes. The clown came back with a chain saw. Fortunately that was the end. His eyes were tearing up outside - I sat him down and told him he was brave - didn't scream - and I was proud. That an older girl in the group ahead of us came right back out the front after a minute in there and he didn't.

He felt better about it. Still scared though. But today he is proud of himself. It was great. He had been wanting to do that for 2 years.

Anyway, my new life as a single dad.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I so want to go to a haunted house! It's hilarious when you are the parent going through with them. You know they won't be harmed but you understand that they are scared and want to console them at the same time! The clown, at the end, was priceless!!

He did well...going through the whole thing. I know adults that won't dare-they have nightmares!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

My w won't do that. Scares her too much. He did great. That is why I made sure to chat with about it afterward cause I know he was scared even after. Just wanted to let him know that I was proud of how he did.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA love hearing the stories about you and your son - keep posting them - 
I am bracing myself for my son's 11th birthday party today - about 12 friends coming over - have made the requested ice cream cake - but it will be a busy day!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Hang in there K....13 boys and testosterone!!! 

Is this the same son's birthday or your other son's birthday?

Party on...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Well - actually he has invited two girls ! a first - so that may affect dynamics a bit - although not necessarily for the better. We have a huge back yard - so - we traditionally mark out a soccer field (my H did this the other day) and they just run around and kick the ball and eat pizza and ice-cream cake - it's pretty hot here this time of year! 
I actually find parties no drama - I love them -
think I am prepared!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Good fun! We had one boy come to my d's party this year. He was great fun and a trooper. Blended in with the girl and he's the HS quarterback! haha


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Smart move on his part!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He was the cutest boy...blended right in. He was NO dummy for sure!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Wren, I'm not wise just human and living through tough times is all. LH has done the work on himself and has a great way of describing things and I do find wisdom in his words.


This is round 2 for me. I have alittle bit of experience. Evidently I don't learn very fast..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

But LH you are a bit of a guru for us !


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I am jack of all trades and a master at none!!! I just did a lot of reading.. I also was willing to listen to all you guys and what I was reading. It all painted the picture. Now I am trying to help others see what I have read and discovered.. Funny thing is all our stories are different but really the same. Think about it..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes LH I find that when you boil it all down everything is pretty similar at the core with just varying personalities involved.

Reading a lot of stuff here as well.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It helps let people know they are not alone and what does work.. Hope everybody had a happy halloween.. I am posting some pics of my family on the site. we all dressed up..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, see I didn't get to do Halloween with my son. He went as Darth Maul. Like K said, its the little things that get to me like that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I hear you...I suppose you will trade off on certain holidays or have an arrangement. It's difficult because of the age of your child.
Who is Darth Maul? 

Like K and LH..younger children are involved...more events and details missed.

Although it all heartbreak.

Has your Wife gone to the house to get her stuff yet? Does she try to talk to you?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

Yes she finally came to get the rest of her stuff and was going to throw out all kinds of things. Her classic statement. I don't have room. So with the help of my parents we cleaned out a lot of stuff to give to a woman's shelter. Heck she was going to leave a bunch of my son's clothes - things he just wore - but I got it all.

We didn't speak much. I would ask if she wanted this or that and her responses were like "thats yours I don't want it". Or "no thank you" in a very scarcastic tone.

Anyway, it kind of sucked.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

First off, your parents are gems! They are with you every step of the way it seems.

You wife is closed off big time. She doesn't want to save this marriage right now. Often, if the female spouse, wants to save the marriage she will initiate conversation regarding the future. 

She doesn't initiate much does she? Maybe you should have asked her if your boyfriends family needed any of the stuff she didn't want? Haha. Ok sometimes you have to joke!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No couldn't joke about that since her mom and step dad were there as well. Although my father planted a seed with the step dad that my dad thought one of her man friends was supposed to help her out, but guessed that fell through. The step dad was like I don't know anything about it.

It was weird we all of us there. We used to all go to the beach for a week and now this. 

Yes she is totally closed off. Again projecting her guilt and problems on me - acting like I cheated or something.

And yes CW, my parents are gems. My mother's first thought after realizing she was going to throw all this stuff out was to take to women's shelter even though that meant a full day of unexpected work. That is how my parents are deep down good people -they just didn't know how to raise me I guess.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Heck....I've found that even if your intentions, as a parent, are noble and the best of your ability...your child still has choices to make on their own. So...they probably did their best and guess what? It sounds like they raised a son that made some mistakes in his relationship but was intelligent and strong enough to begin to correct those flaws! Not so bad if you ask me.

I wish this for my son. He seems to be committed (verbally) and now action wise-time will tell.

Man, that move was an uncomfortable family reunion. Does your wife have any girlfriends? My guess, is that she isn't the chatty kind of chick????


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW right now she does - a bunch of twenty somethings that have never been married or had children. To me that has been a negative outside influence during this time.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- I can tell you from seeing it women are funky creatures. :scratchhead: What they say and do once hurt can totally change in the drop of a hat. You know with my story my wife continued to blame me for EVERYTHING.. It took me to change my 10% wrong with the marriage to get her to see her 90%.. Well now she says its 100% her. She is still going at this blind but moving forward. Every step of the way I reinforce my commitment to her. She just text me about a full moon tonight and I replied back I was just thinking about you and I am glad your with me... Now our 4 day weekend wasn't great as I hoped but I have to appreciate what I was given.. Someday your W will face the issues from her part.. I got a feeling it's going to be soon.. The holidays are coming. It tends to bring out the best in people..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

I wish I had your feeling, but I don't at all believe that she will see it soon. No way. She is just blinded by her need for the narcissistic supply and her selfish ways.

I was talking with my brother earlier today and keeps saying that there is some event that occurred in her life that has created a problem with trusting people. My brother agrees with me that she only truly trusts her mother and her brother. I mentioned something that she said once and he was like that might be it. I won't share that on here, but in a PM if you want to know what I believe the event was.

But I don't see anything happening with her by the holidays - just don't see it. She is a stubborn person once she makes up her mind about something and holds grudges. So she has made up her mind to move on come hell or highwater and she feels compelled to keep going that way.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

She is going through a MAJOR life changing event. Not with you. That will settle in trust me. Right now you guys have the drama up front. Once the dust settles it will get really quiet. She will have ot face it more.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I don't see it. Yes she is going through a major change but in her mind that is over and she is moving on. Heck she was throwing out a lot of things to do with our wedding as if she wanted to wipe the slate clean.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- Please don't focus on her actions now.. YOu know the phrase nothing worse then a women scorned?? She's acting on emotions. I heard that hate is the sister to love. That any kind of anger is good. Means she is connected to you. When she can go about her life without any emotion then I would worry. Still it will change trust me.. She can't avoid it forever. Time alone will help. Even if she uses OM to hide it. She will have to face it..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, you are right that I shouldn't focus on her emotions. She has avoided it this far in her life, so I don't think it will hit her any time soon. Remember she didn't after her 1st marriage.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I think at one point I would point that out to her. Something to the effect why do these patterns continue to repeat?? maybe it will get her to think. I know I used that tactic with my wife. It would stop her for a moment and make her think.. You add enough of those type of thoughts they will ponder. As I have posted in my thread I am not trying to change my W even though she needs it. I am trying to help her see the changes needed.. You can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. I will give her as much info as I can and hope she uses it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

I have said that in a letter I sent to her a while back that she needs to figure some things out so she can be happy in a relationship in the future.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- and time is what she needs. Time alone in a new life situation is going to make her thing. It's almost like a fantasy land with all the drama but facts are that will fade. She will be hit with the aftermath..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yup, time. It just won't happen quickly. My guess is that it will take a couple of years. You are right the OMs are just a mask. It is like an addiction - her dopamine levels are riding high. One day the real world will intrude.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: You are good support here. Thank you!

FA: I think LH is right. She is hurting with anger and is being stubborn. After the OM is out of the picture...and he will be eventually....things will settle. Then, she will need to facr facts. The truth will come out. You weren't cheating she was....You worked on things. She didn't. As LH said she's in "fantasyland."

I do wonder, myself, what the holidays will hold?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW, LH is good support. 

But you forget there is most likely OM2 already. That is what it is, an addiction right now. She is in fantasyland.

The holidays will be tougher on her than I. My family is her, her family isn't they are in WV. Of course she will go there, but it is just different.

By the way I want to put this on the record, I believe by next X-mas she will want to move back to WV.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hoidays are an amazingly powerful time. Usually brings deep sorrow if your hurt or extremely good feelings if in love.. What better way to face yourself then the holidays.. If there is a glimmer of hope the holidays will bring it out. FA- I think you seriously doubt what a little alone time does to a women. It's not going to take years. I would be surprised if she didn't start to see something before end of year..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, but is she really alone with OMs? That is what leads me to believe it will take a lot longer. I hope you are right, I'm just not counting on it at all.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Lust isn't Love.. Lust runs out faster especially when the love aspect isn't there. Lust is great when love is present. It's the best combo but alone Lust ends like a match but love is a fireplace..  Man I can come up with some good analogies every now and then..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: With OM#1...he has a family and kids himself. He may see her but do you think he's gonna be gone Christmas day away from his kids? He will be busy with his own children and events etc. Just a thought. She will miss her family during Christmas. 

Same thing with my H. He probably would think "why not spend the holidays together?" I don't really want to if he's still stuck on the divorce or has already divorced me. I'm not in the mood to be friends with my H on Christmas. Just my thought for this year.

FA: I agree she won't see the light until she's alone.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But a narcissist believes lust is love by all I've read, so who knows.

I do appreciate the support.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Maybe your labeling her too much. She is HUMAN right??


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I'm not labeling her, just accepting her for what she is and trying to understand her pscyhe. Maybe it is labeling in that sense, but unfortunately the articles and things I've read about narcissism don't paint a good picture for her or for our relationship. Basically say a relationship with them is not real - it is for you - but when you see the truth it isn't. Nor is it for them from early on, they just don't recognize it.

I truly hope I'm wrong and you are right LH. I truly do. But I can't wait for it to happen.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- I hope so to... If she is a decent person she will.. Break the pattern.. Every generation teach people to work less at marriages and it continues to change the world in a bad way. The 50's didn't have these problems. I do think divorce is needed sometimes but no where near as much as it is now.. In the 50's there was less things to take your mind away from your family. There was no cell phones. No internet.. So many things to distract you now. We all need to focus on the important things..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I agree that it is the distractions that cause a lot of this. And you are right in some circumstances divorce is needed. But as we know our world has become all about me, me, me and less about family and community.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

That is why there is a rise in narcissism among the population and it is growing larger quickly with every generation.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

The ME attitude is what is killing us. I see it everyday at work. I really hate going to work. Since I work retail I see it everyday. low class co-workers who have nothing and fight for every dime. Throwing people under bus to get ahead. Maybe its NJ. Maybe its the world but I don't believe that. I will most likely be moving to Florida by 2010 and I want to go partially because from what I have seen and my brother who lives there confirms it the people are nicer. The life is better as far as stress goes.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I agree LH to much me. 

You know you read on her to keep fighting for your marriage and LH you even say that. Where do you get your strength from to do so. I feel so much like my marriage is over with nothing left to do but work on myself. What can I do? I know you still see some hope, but I don't. None at all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Part of the "ME" stuff is we've catered to our children. 

They are naturally self centered of course but then they hardly ever get told "NO" or "Wait." 

That a good question of LH. Where do you get your strenght when hope is all but lost?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I see hope cause it hasn't come to that point. There are steps in this process and issues she must face before your no longer part of her picture. Moving out... Being on her own experience the seperation. contacting a Lawyer.. Serving you papers. Court dates. Dividing money up. All these are steps that will effect her. It will help her see if this is what she wants. Trust me its so far from over. 

As for my strength. I have always loved my wife with this passion. We have "it" always have. I realize that my answers are not with somebody else. Yet to make her better for us. Better for our kids. This is a women where I think of her all the time. Sexually we are open. We get along. We want the same things. I could give an endless list for her. The cons are there but not divorce material.. Working on but thats it. Now I know I need to show her the way to help her and I do daily. We will get to a love that others will envy I can feel it. Now why wouldn't I fight for that??


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, she wants mediation to start and we have an appointment set up soon. We've split up most property at this point with both of us out of the family home. And she has been on her own for a couple of months now.

But there is always the OMs and some young girl friends whom I believe are a negative influence on her around.

I just don't see any hope. I love her and always have deeply. I wouldn't have married her if I didn't. I screwed up and she screwed up. I'm facing my screw ups, but she isn't facing any of hers and not sure she will as I've said.

I want to fight for her more, but seems like when I do it just has pushed her further away. Right now it just seems like I should be on my own and let her do her thing with no contact except with regards to our son.

Work on me which I'm doing.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- Thats it.. you are working on your marriage by fixing your issues. There are still steps.. Talk is cheap and a lot of what you said is talk.. The biggest hurdle for her is the alone time.. Yes she has company of OM but its not you. She will compare them to you and eventualy there little quirks will get to her and make her think about you. With my process my W was talking to men not to date but I think to find out what she had.. Afterwards she told me she now knows how many bad men there are out there. Yet it took time..

Headed to work now..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

Yes I agree with the comparisons but right now they will be negative toward me - my screw ups of course will be shining bright in her mind. So - only time can heal us both. I have to move on for me and totally detach.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think you are right FA. We must detach and that will be over time. I think the likelihood, once the OM is out of the picture, will be that she will want to return. Her strongest ties are with you the father of her son. 

Even if we are divorced they may still want to return. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Right now she totally hates me - so whatever. No matter what I do, show compassion - she gets mad; show dislike - she gets mad; stay silent - she gets mad. Doesn't really matter right now -- no matter what I do she gets mad. She is projecting all of her guilt onto me.

I'm tired of it.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Fa- hate is good. Means she is effected by you. She is still attached. If she was done she wouldn't care. The bitterness will come to end. Time alone will help that. She is the fire in a forest and you are the wind. If the wind goes away the fire can't burn. So once your gone nothing left to fuel her. If she was calm I would worry that means no attachment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well we will see LH. I hear where you are coming from on hate still being an attachment. I like your positive thoughts, just seem to be so many negatives.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree with LH..however part of self preservation at this point is detachment. I know you feel the same way as I do FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I do feel the same as you do CW, except I guess I have been given some reasons as we discussed a while ago. I should be comforted knowing that. Just feel cheated that I wasn't given the time or any effort from her to allow me to show the changes. Of course I believe a lot of the "issues" she threw up weren't real, some were, but a lot was projection onto me. Especially her thoughts of me cheating.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I guess we both feel slighted...by the time that our spouses decided to tell us their feelings they were already gone (emotionally). We began our change, the best that we knew how, but no opportunity was given. 

At least that's how I feel. 

I agree that whatever your wife was feeling toward you..she sought attention elsewhere. That further complicated your marriaged. She's a hypocrite as far as I am concerned. She needs to look in the mirror.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, I agree that she is a hypocrite. But that plays into what I've said about standards for others but not the same for herself.

I'm still not sure your h is detached emotionally CW, but I can hear your resentment building.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are right FA...he hasn't detached emotionally and either have I. I can't live the life that he's forcing upon me. He's making whatever moves he feels like with no regard to me.

He thinks he's being nice...it relieves him of his guilt. Afterall, he's taking care of me right? This is important to him as he feels he "owes me."


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well he is a descent person deep down and you know that CW. At least you know that much about him. That he is in pain - even though he is causing you pain. I can't say the same about my w.

She is just enjoying life in her fantasyland.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Feelingalone said:


> Right now she totally hates me - so whatever. No matter what I do, show compassion - she gets mad; show dislike - she gets mad; stay silent - she gets mad. Doesn't really matter right now -- no matter what I do she gets mad. She is projecting all of her guilt onto me.
> 
> I'm tired of it.


hate is an emotion. so is love. indifference is the enemy. as long as there is emotion, there is hope.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

V, I want to believe there is hope, but I am becoming indifferent to it. She has OMs and it just tears me up. I was played a fool.....


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- The OM are toys right now. They are a distraction from reality.. She is trying to escape from facing it. When the novelty wears off so will her distraction. I hope its soon for your sake..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, its too late I think. Its like you said, there are certain lines that you can't cross and she did.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Just because you distance yourself and move on with your life doesn't mean that your relationship will never be restored. 

I have been afraid to take control and move on because I might lose hope and "what if" he wants to come back. I might have detached totally and then our marriage could never be restored.

The fact is we still love our spouses...even the cheating ones. However, given the right circumstance and their amends (over time) things can change. Just like they changed for the worse things can change for the better.

I truly believe this...

Given all of this...we have to preserve ourself and look forward to a life without our spouses. We cannot totally focus on them if they are not present in our homes or our lives.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW, this might be my final phase of detachment the last couple of days. Right now I'm numb toward her. I just don't care.

I just care about my son. The new situation with him is unsettling to me. I have to just get used to it. 

I can handle it.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Thinking of you, FA. You can do this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Numbness is a protective shield and I'm glad to have it. 

I'm proud of you FA...you have come along way. Personally you've worked on your NG tendencies and you've been able to see your wife as a flawed soul as well. 

It's not all without sadness and a bit of hope. We are human.

Don't expect total detachment....just allow things to happen as you move forward. 

I believe total detachment could take years...if at all.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I'm still a work in progress. But then I am human. That is something I am learning about myself. That it is okay to make mistakes and not beat yourself up about them. To live one day at a time. I'm getting there.

Yes it does come with sadness. The last 2 days I've been said for the reality of my new situation with my son hit me hard. I just plan on being there for him the best I can. I will still coach teams and such. I will be there for him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are there for your son. He knows it clearly. It's wonderful that you son has a dad present in his life. Many children don't have that opportunity. I didn't.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW, your support means a lot to me. As does LH's, K's, Wren,s V's and everbody else on this forum. 

I pray that events or people are placed in my w's path to help her realize things and to look deep within herself.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Your prayers will be answered. It's the same prayer that I've been praying. Whether or not they get the hint is up to them.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes CW, I'll continue to pray for her, for me and for my little guy. I will be active in his life. That is up to me not her. It will be different.

Yes do we really detach that easily? For you it has been such a long relationship. Mine is only a 1/3 of the time or less. I don't think I will ever detach wholly, hard to with a young son. Even if there wasn't a child it would be hard.

I just can't beat myself up anymore about the what if I had done this. It is in the past, I made mistakes, she did, and I'm fixing mine. If only she had your heart CW, I don't think I would have ever needed this forum.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't think it's easy detaching. I will probably never be completely detached with my H. We have kids and we have a long history. He will be the same...I am willing to bet. Not that he won't be distracted with OW or his hobbies but he'll come around in cycles. You bet. 

You can't be yourself up anymore FA. I made my mistakes as well...it probably was the central part of our marriage demise. My depression let negative feelings grip our marriage. I was sick and selfish but I stayed. He couldn't help and was frustrated and scared. I got better. He got depressed. He ran. 

Maybe it's my personality to stick around. I know it's part of my loyalty. You wife maybe doesn't have that personality or feel loyal. She has so many issues to deal with FA and isn't there at all. Her anger towards you will freeze her from growing.

Even though your relationship wasn't as long...it took you a long while to get married. You meant it and didn't take it lightly. That was important to you. You knew your wife was the one. I never got to play the field like many....but I didn't want to. 

I read that it takes 1 year for every 5 years married to recover from a divorce. I can't imagine 5 years of recovering!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I've heard that as well. Well I've only got a year left then. OOOhhh great......


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

One year sounds doable....5 sounds extremely long and drawn out!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah 5 would be long. Oh well, life is chock full of surprises. I guess we all need to open up a lemonade stand since we've been dealt lemons.

We'll make it. I e-mailed K, she's doing ok. K, when you read this our prayers are with you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

She much at point that I am...working hard at taking the focus off of our H's. 

Of course this is no easy task. 

I keep thinking that he has nothing to offer me right now. No caring, no commitment, no emotional support....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No it isn't. I am trying as well. It is getting use to the situation. Getting into new routines, etc. And just realizing and not fighting the fact that you will be sad at times and that it is okay. That things will improve slowly but surely. It is all of our new beginnings.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Right. It's not fighting the facts. I have to remember this as well. 

It's all beyond our control. Some real life lessons here for me this year. My son and my H are beyond my control! 

I do like control.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I guess that is the biggest lesson, unconditional love means not having control and being okay with that. I'm learning slowly what that means and how to do it.

CW, maybe that is the key to detachment. Realizing we will still love our spouses, but that it doesn't matter that we get anything back from them at all. Sounds like a doormat a little bit and I don't mean it that way. Just that we will care about them and what happens, but not expect they will do the same.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

There is a fine line between unconditional love and doormat. I believe the 2 depend on how the other person treats you more then what you do. If you offer yourself up and they abuse it then you are a doormat. If you offer yourself up and they do same you have healthy relationship. Your putting trust in the other person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I was reminded that it's okay to love but we have to let go of the outcome.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hi guys...
just thought I'd pipe in - I have decided to stop loving my H in that way...have to I do feel like a doormat - it has come down to respect for me ...I don't think he resepcts me ...I really don't. That has been a hug eone for me to take on because he is busy telling me that he 'respects' me - but he doesn't...and he doesn't respect my love - he thinks it's 'wrong' 'unhealthy' for me to 'love' him after all he has done - he tries to imply this all the time - "I am worried about you"....the more I show him my compassion and humanity the more he abuses it - it doesn't suit him to see me in this way - it makes him uncomfortable ...I am going to stop loving him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think of unconditional love differently. 

You can love someone and not take abuse or even see them. You can even offer tough love to someone you love unconditionally. 

I do love my H and my children unconditionally.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I know I love my son unconditionally. RIght now I don't her. I need to work on that as part of detachment.

LH, I'm still hoping you are right about her that she will come to her senses. But as my brother said it will probably be 5 years before that happens.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I think that we will all have moved on by the time they work it out - that's what I honestly think in my case and I suspect that my H is currently going down the path of not working anything out...


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## Missy38 (Nov 7, 2009)

I am hoping to get there myself. I am happy you are going on with your life. It is never easy at first. but in time we will all make it though.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You have to move on or wilt. Like in the movie "Get busy living, or get busy dyin".

Tough day for me today. Went to first mediation session. Spent the entire time discussing how to split time with our son. Holidays big and small, vacation time, routine time, spring break, birthdays, mother's day, father's day, etc., etc. So much. Just keep thinking it will all get better. I'm sad, sooooo sad though.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Every step see how she reacts. If she reacts without emotion then thats bad.. Yet if after there is anger thats good.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

She was up beat and smiling and laughing at times during this session. That was really nice to see - bi$%h. I sure as heck wasn't. I myself barely looked at her.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well do you think it could be a front??


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe LH, but I think it is just her fantasy land she is living in.


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## mls31 (Aug 22, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> NAnd just realizing and not fighting the fact that you will be sad at times and that it is okay. That things will improve slowly but surely. It is all of our new beginnings.


Totally agree. Tonight I started crying in front of my mom. Usually I try to keep my emotions down because I'm embarassed to waste tears on my H. However, tonight I realized that sometimes you just have to cry. Life should not be this difficult.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's probably a front..."look at how good I am doing."

It's gets to you FA...seeing them smiling when you are dividing up time with your child! 

The meetings will become easy now that you've gotten the visitation out of the way. Dealing with the assets should be down to business.

I know with each time I meet with my H...it gets easier.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA you always sound so full of conviction. And I kind of agree with CW - the business side shouldn't be as taxing....ignore how she is...it's all crap.....her cheeriness or not is no longer something you need to worry about.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I know it shouldn't get to me, but I'm talking about a mom who never told her son what was happening. I had to do it Saturday and then this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: You wife sounds like she has qualities of my H. Avoidance is one of the traits that my H has...he eventually get to the difficult, relationship stuff when he feels ready. Except, more than likely..everyone already knows as he's taken Forever to tell anyone. This goes for him telling his parents, sister, kids. They still weren't told much about what's going on. I fill them in as it's not fair to them.

Although, I won't fill his parents in on much more. It really is his responsibility.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Avoidance and compartmentalization. Not a good thing, at all. I'm sorry FA. It's all a front- a defense mechanism.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't think it is avoidance. Just she is done with me in her mind. I now know what her wall is based on. And I'm no victim. I made mistakes and I am paying for them. I withdrew trying to be the "man" and take on all the worries of the world for my family so they didn't. I should have shared with her and didn't. I took on all the stress of running my own business during this crappy economy. 

And that was my fault. I've come clean on everything, but she doesn't trust me. I know she believes I had an affair because that is the only reason in her mind for someone to withdraw - in her mind it couldn't be that someone loved her soo much that he would try to keep the real world at bay and lose himself in the process. Why does she think affair - because that is what she would do and alas has done. Well my actions are in the past and I've made amends - if she chooses not to believe or see the truth now that is her problem. She is going to have a rude awakening soon.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Avoidance is what most people like to do when involved in painful decisions. She could be one of those types that puts out this everything is fine face and one day crumble in front of you. There is a customer of mine that came into my work and said he had it with his marriage. His wife showing nothing for him but he's killing himself to provide and left. I went to this gathering where both are usually there and he wasn't but she was. I can tell you she had this happy face as if nothing was wrong.. I mean like her life was great. I never brought him up to see if she did but nope. That doesn't mean she isn't cracking inside.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, I was avoiding when I was withdrawing as well - just didn't even realize it. I'm beginning to think I was depressed during the last 2 years and never knew it. Not the total depression, but just so scared on the inside for my family that at times it paralyzed me and then I acted like a NG. I'm not avoiding anymore.

Maybe she is cracking on the inside, but by all apperances and her actions she isn't LH. Maybe the mediation process like you said will help her realize her issues, but I don't believe they will based on yesterday.

Thanks for your support LH. If you move to Florida and need a place to crash mid trip down, assuming you drive, you are always welcome to crash with me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

This is all about analyzing our spouses as they are not upfront with what they are feeling. Of course, they have a wall now. Eventually, whenever their crutch leaves (OM, alcohol, avoidance) they will show their colors. We may never see it but we may get a glimpse.

There is no way...given our circumstances that they won't want back in the marriage once the crutch is gone.

I give both of our spouses (1) year to realize this...mark your calendar for my H. I probably won't be sitting on my azz waiting either.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I definitely give your spouse that or less. Mine, well I'm not betting on it. She has to give up 2 OMs. We'll see.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

How could someone have 2 OM's? When she visits her mom..she only see OM2 then? Perhaps he was a friend? 

As a woman..that would be too much to keep up with. 

OM1 had a wife and family. He'll be gone soon. 

I'd imagine that you wife will need to get a fulltime job soon. Maybe somewhere else....that would limit contact with OM right? Not that it matters at this point. The damage is done.

It's strange to be alone tonight. I didn't have anything to do tonight and no kids and 1 dog. My old girl (dog) is so sweet...she's always by my side. I even feel for her now. No H around (she adores him)...no kids...no mom (at work/day).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well one is for the week days and one sometimes on the weekend here (he has visited a couple times) and like you said when she goes to her moms I imagine. She is doing this all for sex and to make herself feel wanted. The low self esteem part. Again I made mistakes - I withdrew emotionally and then physically because I didn't feel worthy of her as I've discussed. But they are paying attention to her and I imagine giving her gifts, etc. They call her, text her, etc. Right now it is easy for her.

The one back in her mom's home town is divorced with 2 daughters and yes the one here is married with 2 or 3 kids. Unbelievable isn't it CW.

I believe she will as well, but in her mind she doesn't at this point. As I've said she doesn't believe me about anything. Rude awakening coming up.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Thanks FA---- I hope not to drive down unless I transfer before I move which is possible. I am hoping to fly down and have a moving company take my stuff.. Then have another one take my cars..


Things will change for her real soon. It wil be life changing. This why I am confident you will have your day to decide on your future with your family. Her reality will be in front soon..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, we are talking about a person who is stubborn and holds grudges. I'm not sure she has any emotion left for me. When she "makes up her mind" she rarely if ever changes it. I hope you are right, but again I don't bet on it or count on it. I have to keep moving forward and onward with my life.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- my wife was like that. She always seemed to be cold in a way. That nothing would effect her. it's a wall. Trust me that wall has its limits. I told my wife for YEARS.. Many YEARS I felt she could take me or leave me without much of a tear. Now as you can see my wife is growing personally far more then she ever has. She is taking personal responsibility that I have never seen her take. This from a women I never thought would. To hear her call herself lazy and to admit everything I have been telling her is true is simply amazing. Haven't seen a change in her life but just acknowledge it is amazing.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA we will keep moving forward - they will be stuck one day - I am seeing now that my H will be floundering for years and one day - he will realise that he has f***ed up the best thing that he has ever had going for him....I don't think this will be anytime in the near future for me...and sometmes I think he woudl prefer to run all his life - I know that running has a use by date - but he is an expert at avoidance and diversion - but guess what I am getting sick of talking about him ! 

How are you going?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I have good days. I have bad days. As I've said getting used to the new situation. Monday was bad. Didn't like sitting in a room and dividing up my son's life. Feels so selfish. Especially when she seemed so unfazed by it. I barely even looked at her. Heck a couple of times when she was laughing she even touched my arm the way she used to - WTF. The funny thing was the mediator said the two of us make it so easy because we work "so well together".

LH, yes but I've only told her once, in a letter about her needing to change as well as me. Who the heck knows. But yes she will at some point I suppose.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA those days are so hard and so painful and doing it 'with' her must be hideous- hopefully you will be able to move to a place of very limited contact. How's your boy doing?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

He seems to be doing ok with it all. He did say last night that he gets sad that mom and dad aren't together. He must do it in front of her, cause he doesn't much with me. 

I keep tabs on him with his teacher. Just want to make sure his behavior isn't changing there due to this. I'm concerned and want to know about any changes there. But so far, no changes.

I'm not sure it has totally sunk in yet. The holidays it will I imagine. Especially X-mas. He will be with his mom X-mas morning. We've always made sure he slept in his own bed x-mas eve and that Santa came to his house. I won't be there for him. 

Oh well, I guess that's life.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA it is a list of sadnesses isn't it? As though all the things that made life worth living are now what make it suck. Start planning now how you are going to cope with the holidays and what wonderful things you & H are going to do. 

Good on you for checking things at school etc. I did as well - not my H of course. I am not sure of your little guy's personality etc - but my little one became more agressive and now is 'trying' very hard - seeking approval I guess...this comes at a cost and I am trying to get him to relax...my older boy is just so sad and is internalising everything still - my goal for 2010 is to keep him smiling - he has the most amazing smile and I want him to really enjoy his last couple of years of being a kid!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good thing for me K regarding the holidays is that my family is here in NC. My brother and his wife and H's little cousins are coming to town. Last year we all went to the beach for turkey day. So H will get to play with his cousin Sammy (as in Samantha). And his little buddy Jakey. So that will be great. X-mas I'm unsure of at this point. We had to divide up those days more minutely. 

That is why I was checking up on him to see if he was acting normal, more aggresively, or becoming more introverted. Just worried about him is all. It easier in this day and age. Can just e-mail his teacher. Also let her know my concerns at my parent-teacher conference a couple of weeks ago.

Yes don't we all want them to smile.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep that extended family really earn their keep at these times...!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes they dooooo. Actually my brother has been great. He just feels for H and so does his wife. They both have expressed that they just wish they could take him out of the situation for me. They love him to death.

My brother actually is going to talk with H over Thanksgiving to let H know that he can always call and talk to him about anything. That means so much to me. And to think when I was young (he is the oldest) he used to drag me around like a play doll.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Glad he is there for you guys FA...you know you'd do the same for him!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's amazing how family (some) can really step up to the plate. You sounds like your parents and brother's family rocks! H will be busy on Thanksgiving with cousins-how wonderful.

I am going to see my D part of the day on turkey day. They are going to a buffet with my H's family. I was invited but really don't want to go and make nice and pretend we are (H and I) are one big happy family. That fact is...I'm not too happy with the outcome.

I'll cook my own turkey. As far as Christmas EVE...I am going to volunteer at the Feast of Sharing (huge feast sharing dinner for low income). If my D is with me or my S then I will ask them to join. This isn't your typical Christmas...I am going to treat it different. If I am alone, I'll be busy doing what Jesus would do!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, you deserve to have the Christmas you want. I don't worry about you during the holidays. You are a strong person with or without support around you. I will admit I need it.

Yes it is amazing how my brother is stepping up for me. Not really since we've been older, but as I said this guy used to drag me around like a rag doll when I was little. Think 2. Up and down the stairs, my head hitting everyone of the risers as he pulled me by the feet. Must have been funny watching that -- if you weren't my parents. He is a great guy and his wife is tremendous.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I wish I could of had a relationship like that with my brother...minus the head banging! My brother is 8 years younger. 

I need the support but for me...I don't mind being alone either. When I think things may be difficult, like during the holidays, I plan ahead. I don't want to be alone on Christamas!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

FA it shows that you are putting your son first emotionally, checking up on him at school making sure their is no behavior changes, allowing him basically to "feel". That says a lot. And although these situations are never easy on children, I'm sure you are doing your best to help him and he will (if not already) appreciate it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well until he went to college it wasn't a great relationship. Then it changed for whatever reason and we became good friends. Heck I couldn't have made it through organic chemistry without him. He has a phd in organice chemistry -- what the heck was he thinking. But then he always like mixing things up.

That is why his relationship is so good with his w. They fight about who gets to cook. How strange is that? Heck my wife would flee at the first I will cook tonight. Actually not kidding.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've heard that with many siblings that they develop their true closeness after high school. 

My kids were close once but my son last track of our family. Now, he's wanting back to being close and has realized that he's pretty much ignored her for a year. They used to go camping, by boat, and sleep by the campfire on our spoil islands. It was the cutest thing...she was 10 and he was 16. Like Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer. 

He's older now and got busy with other things..of course. But still was being selfish overall. He wasn't raised like that but he's 21.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, I didn't mention this last night, but OM2 from WV was down visiting Tuesday night and yesterday while I had H. He works for post office so he had off. How do I know you might ask? Well I had H for dinner asked him what he did for the last few hours and he said I played with OM2 (of course he doesn't realize he is OM2 -- just a "friend"). I was taken aback. And he is coming this weekend with his daughter. Again unbelievable.

CW, you were right a while back. She checked out long ago emotionally. I never had a chance. LH, I think there goes your hope for us. SHe is definitely checked out 100% emotionally from me. Oh well, my turn to do it as well.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash,

I don't know about first, just concerned about his well being. He is my boy and I want him to be as happy as he can be during this crap.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Maybe just maybe FA knowing this will help you to detach from a person who isn't worthy of you. Goodness me she must be desperate to avoid thinking about her self - you on other hand FA are wonderfully reflective and so humble and so honest - and I so believe in what goes around comes around ....it just does -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Detaching doesn't mean giving up just keeps you from feeling it. I still don't believe the actions are 100% correct right now. People do some funky things. Like I said from personal experience of my wife. She told me she checked out long ago. Eventually people have to see who they really are. Some quicker then others..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, I'm just who I am. I'm not good. I'm not bad. I just am. Honest? I wasn't emotionally honest with her for a while for whatever reason. And I was ashamed and afraid I would lose her because of where the business was headed during this economy so I hid from her. Is that honest? I don't think so. Humble? I've let go of my pride. But thanks.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- We all do that. Not wanting to risk rocking the boat. The fear is usually more to do with the other and how they will react. My issues with my wife were my fault. I failed to step up long ago and say what was upseting me. I took it out on her and didn't tell her why. We all do things that at the time we think are right. Avoidance.. Yet they are so much more damaging. Why can't we be smart when we were married??


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA you are honest - you just are -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Whose actions LH? Hers? No it just shows that although she proclaimed to many that she didn't want anyone else and just wanted it to work out with me that was a lie. She was already gone.

The thing that kind of sort of makes me laugh is that she is playing OM1. She was supposed to pick up my son yesterday afternoon at my parents after a dentist appointment and then drop him off with me at soccer practice. Yesterday morning she was like since practice is canceled and I'm sick I canceled the dentist appointment. She was telling everyone at her work she was sick. In fact she wasn't sick, that was her cover for OM1 not to expect a quickie at lunch since OM2 was there. Now realize OM2 drove 5 hours Tuesday night to then drive 5 hours back yesterday all during this rain from Ida. How do I know she wasn't sick. Asked my son. So she is playing OM1. Kind of makes me laugh and throw up at the same time. I'm thinking of letting OM1 know he is being played.

The funny thing is why lie to me? She is even lying about this weekend saying her cousin was coming into town. No it isn't her cousin it is OM2 with his daughter. Again why lie to me? Unbelievalbe.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA-- I was talking about in the past with your relationship when you said you were not emotionally honest with her.. We all do that. It's what we think is best but in reality its worse cause then your actions are hurt and they have no clue..

She is lying still cause she knows she is't doing something that's right so it's normal to lie. I don't think she will ever be honest with you in that aspect cause you were connected.. Maybe she realizes she shouldn't be doing this so lying is needed?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not sure she is capable of accepting that any of her actions are in the wrong since I "wronged" her. But again if you are done with me, why lie. I really think she is worried that I would spill the beans with OM1. Which I might since I know.

This could be my conversation with OM1. Hey P sorry to hear you got dumped by my w so fast. Oh, you don't know about M? Oh, my bad. By the way if you don't want your wife knowing about what you've been doing and don't want me to sue your [email protected]#, come clean to me about it all. When did it start,etc.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, you are right. At the time I thought it was the best thing -- to shield her from it all, to assume the responsibility and let her be ok. Obviously that back fired and is a huge learning experience for me. I'm not doing that anymore. But I thought that was what the "man" would do. That is so emotionally dishonest though to yourself and to the other. From this I shall grow and become a man.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I don't think you got anything to lose about talking to him if you really need to know the details. Though I think his wife needs to know what he is doing. It isn't fair on her..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes I think his wife needs to know what he is doing as well.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

the truth will 'out' one or the other....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree. However, I do feel for OM#1 wife and kids. It's sad that another marriage will have the turmoil of an affair. I feel for the children.

She needs to know. Be prepared that she may already know or she doens't believe you. That sometimes happens.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- Whether she belives or not. She will eventually look to see if true if she doesn't know already. If she does know it will be just more fuel on the fire.. Either way she does have to hear it from FA..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't really want to destroy another family since I now know what that means to the ones involved. I'm not sure I can do it. I know I need to, although I believe this will all come to light in some way whether I do or not. It can't go on for ever. To CW and K, thanks for your opinions in pms. It does hurt me deeply what she is doing, but these are the last straws that end it for me. LH, she might come back to me one day, but without incredible changes on her part, I won't be there.

Right now it is hard to even try to love her unconditionally as the mother of my child. By the way everyone, I put up a couple of pictures of him in an album. One when he was little and one from last X-mas with his cousins.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA he is beautiful - really! I am going looking for some pictures of my boys to share with you....uughh it's so friggin hard..............


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K and he is soo sweet. I hope he doesn't lose that during all of this.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I always love my mum on kids - she says that they are perfect -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yeah thats great... Got to love the memories.. I uploaded a few of my wedding pictures. From 1994..  I feel so old now after looking at them..

FA- I said she will wake up one day but you might be gone.. Still think that day will come for you and it will be your decision.. A nice guy will always get their shot when the others are gone. She will realize what she had and regret what she did..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

LH - you guys are perfect together - this place kills me - what are we like?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I really don't think she will ever "regret" it at all.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I know in my mind I've got to quit loving her, but the heart makes it difficult. I stood before God and promised I would be there in the good times and the bad. I guess she wasn't there at all.

I'm just sad guys. I just have to remember not to look at the good times, but remember everything. Life is hard at times, but we will get through, some how, some way.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep FA it's like the wise CW says we end up romanticising our realtionship - and you are just sad - we will know sadness for a long time and FA I think a part of me will always be sad about my H leaving me and the boys - always -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it is and yes we do. Always have to remember the big picture and not allow yourself to think of a specific good moment.

I know I will be sad about it for a long time. Just have to learn to comparmentalize and bury most of the time.

Nice big rock your boys are sitting on.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep we need to put things in places - and yep it was a lovely day in happier times - we were on an island together....but hey it wasn't so 'happy' my H was miserably attached to OW - so not as romantic as I am making out - but boys were very happy


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good job of not romanticizing. At least the boys were happy.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Its a baby step, but a big step. Keep going.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Everyone's pics are wonderful! 

FA: You boy is so sweeeeet looking and handsome!
LH: The young married couple photos are precious and remind me of my H and I. Love your hair!
K: That one massive rock! Your boys look like little explorers.

Sweet memories are bittersweet aren't they?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW, he is handsome. He is pretty photogenic. There is a black and white of him from last year that I made sure I got before the witch did. Also, when he was 2 and in a mother's day out program at a local church they did pictures and put him in this amazing frame with dual pictures as an advertisement -- I had to buy it after I saw it. 

The best thing is his spirit matches his looks. He will probably be an instigator in school. Always the one to suggest things, but not the one who gets caught. Wouldn't know where he would get that from. He is part american indian -- from his mom's side. Both her parents have it in their ancestry from both of their parents lineage. The kid can stay out in the sun for hours on end without sunscreen, which has been good since he had a mild allergy to it. Doesn't react anymore, but glad he has such good skin.

I know I'm doting, just love him to death.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Dote away = lovely to hear is talk some positive stuff


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Can't help doting, love him to death. We need more close up pics of your rugged explorers from the rock. That was a great pic. My H would love a rock like that on the beach. Probably break his arm on it.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- My hair was from Jack Tripper from 3's company.. In the early 2000's I was forced to change it..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: It was such a sign of the times! 

FA: My H is 1/4 Cherokee. My kids, of course, are 1/8th. They have great skin also. Tanners. Although I am a SPF Sunscreen Natzi mom anyway! I ,on the other hand, have fair skin and blonde hair. I was a lifeguard in HS and had enough sun to last a lifetime. By Oct. my tan would be gone! I regret all of the unprotective sunning that I did. I guess the 80's were like that.

Yes K...more upclose pics. I don't know how to add the pics. Probably simple but I am too lazy.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW its easy.. there is a link that says upload pics..  For some reason I picutured you with blonde hair. No not from your posts thinking you were a blonde but I just felt you were..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, once you find where to add the pics it isn't that hard. Even for a tech idiot like me.

H's ancestry is also primarily Cherokee. And yes he tans well. He was so dark after he and I came back from Hilton Head this summer. If I'm not in the sun a lot every year I burn up like a lobster. My w always laughed at me for putting on the sunscreen so much. But then she has to put on baby oil to burn so she didn't understand.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well guys what do you think of this? Today at H's soccer game, my w brought the daughter of OM#2. To me just unbelievable. At least she didn't bring him. Wonder where he was? Hiding in the bushes or the car.

She has no compass. LH I believe that is total indifference to me, wouldn't you say?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA I can't understand this insensitivity - can she think of no-one but her self? All I can say is that a much more sensitive woman is out there for you - someone more like yourself...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No right now she is blinded by euphoria. Reality will set in soon.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes she is isn't thinking. I don't believe she is trying to hurt you just not thinking of it from your perspective. Just shows she doesn't care what you think. Pretty typical for somebody who wants out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, was your w like that? You said she was through at one time. Did she act like she didn't care what your thought?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: She's as sensitive as a rock! Really-unbelievable.

Sounds to me like her moral compass isn't on the screen. 

How is she in everyday life? Does she treat others like she wants to be treated? Would she return the change, to a cashier, if she gave her too much? Would she lie on taxes or a resume? 

I am just curious...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I've seen her give back change. She wouldn't lie on taxes. On a resume -- I don't know. She hasn't needed one since I've been with her. Of course that is going to change soooooon.

Seems like she is a rock doesn't it. As I've said she can be two faced to people. By that I mean she like with the people I play soccer with. H's first soccer coach. Her son and daughter have been friends with H for 3 years now. She started not to want to hang out at their house after soccer, but she wouldn't be honest with them. But now she is always talking about getting together with her now. But I get **** if I take them to their house after soccer. So although I might not have always been upfront in our relationship for the reasons you know, she just doesn't bother to worry about others at all it seems. As long as she gets what she wants -- so be it with her. Self centered you might ask -- yes.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- Yes she was like that. She did the same things your W is doing.. Yours went a little further with OM involved. A lot of time my wife would tell me it's best for the kids to see us apart then un an unhealthy marriage. I can't tell you how many things she did that made her think she was doing best but in reality hurting more. Telling our D what she would think if Mommy and daddy not together. She was at work printing out articles about children coping with D.. It was amazing how far she was going with this..

As I have been saying people change when they are running. It's like in panic mode and the person you married is tottaly different. It is almost like they are in survival mode. I didn't even understand who my wife was during this process.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I see otherwise honest. I wasn't sure because she seems "off." Of course we are trying to apply logic to the illogical. 

The self centered part is true. I'm not sure what the difference is between self centered and selfish...maybe the same thing. My H does care of the kids a great deal and would never hurt them. I think he feels the same about me but not to his expense (obviously).

LA: It seems that you wife spent a great deal of energy "justifying" her feelings. As if she was trying to convince herself that this was the right thing to do. My H did the same thing. First time he read a self help book (probably still) was about children and divorce. They will be "ok" was his conclusion as long as the parents are involved in a healthy manner.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

How's this for the ultimate copout justification? my H always tells my boys that 50% of marriages fail - as though it's okay we only had a 50/50 chance anyways???? 

(can I just add that this is a statistic that does not reflect Australian social reality) - in fact divorce is on the decrease here !!!!!!!! 

when I hear this crap from him I just lose respect - I despise this sort of facile logic -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I read an article from the washington post. It was about the good divorce theory and if you make it ok the kids will be fine. It was explaining how BS it was. That there is no divorce that is good for the kids cause any divorce force the parrents to be individuals and live by 2 sperate rules. They would see their parents less. They would have to act different around each parrent. They would end up holding secrets from the other parents. Forcing them to "grow" up to fast. It is all true. Once kids are involved your life as an individual is over. Your now making decisions for you/wife/kids.. They have to ask themselves is the decision they making best for all3?? If not then they need to wake up and deal with their issues.. Problems are we are now becoming a throw away socitey.. That if we don't like something we can get rid of it regardless of what we promissed. It's ok to break what we say..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I've heard all that crap too from my w. But unlike your w, my w seems to have completely moved on from me. Sure every time she looks at our son, she will be reminded of me. He looks more like me and has my build. 

CW, she is seemingly otherwise honest. I just don't think she really trusts any guy she is in a relationship with after some period of time. 

Maybe it is just the narcissism. You know, once the constant adoration and admiration dies down she is like, he must not love me or he would be doing x, y, and z. Of course she wouldn't tell him that just expect it -- her own covert contract. Always questioning with her own jealousy. Believe me she was jealous. She'd find a hair in my truck that was blonde (she has brown hair hair) and she'd be like "what's this". I'm like I dont know most likely your moms she was in the truck last week. Things like that. 

Also I believe there was some event in her late high school days involving her dad. Her dad cheated with numerous woman on her mother. The event which I'm not sure of could create that type of mistrust in all guys and even her female friends.

K, yes that is self justification to the max with that one. Disgusting.

LH, I've read some research as well that agrees with that Post article. I think the people that write it is better for the kids were people who got divorced and it made them feel better. I know in some situations it is, but I don't believe all of them.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep LH - don't get me started ! hey hang on I already am!

The whole 'shared' parenting thing has been a bit of a disaster as well. I can see my kids struggle going between home and home - or as they see it home and not home - 

they both say they'd rather just be live with me - and this is not because they don't love their d with all their heart - it is just because it is disruptive - I mean who would want to do this as an adult - so why would kids like it???? 

and the different behaviours - precisely - even my lovey little 8 year old was telling me today that he didn't know why he didn't fight with his brother at his dad's but does at home - 

I know why - it's because he can let go at home - let it out - 

there he is still not sure of things - 

the really really weird thing for me is that you separate and depending on whatever society thinks separated families shoudl be doing at that particular point in history you just do - but it is all so faddish - there is no road map or real guidance - you juts do what everyone else is doing...and it sucks! 

I am not at all convinced that my boys spending half the week with me and half with their dad is the 'best' for them - but how do I argue against this ?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

K- This is what the leaving parent doesn't see. They think what the issues are require this split to be "better" When in reality once the dust settles the "better" part isn't there only changed. instead of fghting in the marriage there is fighting on time and how to parent seperate. It's the same if not worse yet the leaving parent doesn't see this until it's too late. This is why tere are so many marriages that get back together after time. So we as the left behind try so hard to make the leaving parent see that. I was lucky to get my wife to see it. It also helped that se figured out nobody would treat her better or the kids and is working on it. Most not so lucky though..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes LH you are lucky in that regard that she realized it. But she had to get through her realization that she was a big part of it too. As you've said you did things wrong and then started doing them right. So you saw it, then she saw it after a while.

K, yes disruptive. That is why I'm trying to not allow it to be too disruptive to H even if that means less time with me. It hurts me, but I want him to have some where to call "home".


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My issues mainly were actions from what she was doing. I am 100% convinced of this. Why?? Cause I was able to make a 180 on how I treated her when I stopped allowing her actions to effect me. I know I retreated into my office away from her cause she didn't commit to our marriage unconditionally. Since it felt like I was giving and getting very little in return instead of talking to her I retreated afraid to upset her and the cycle continues. I was just able to get her to see it along with her sisters help. It also helpped her on FB seeing and talking with so many guys and them all being jerks. That helpped her see she has it pretty good..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, that sounds so similar. I felt the same giving and trying and nothing back. So I retreated emotionally, then physically over time (didn't feel worthy since I tried and got nothing in return) and then when a big issue would come up I just kept doing the same. But I couldn't get her to see her part -- didn't have a sister's help or jerks on FB. No I had OM#1 saying I wouldn't do that and you're so great I imagine. And that is what I believe is the truth about the situation. That OM1 destroyed any chance I had.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

It is interesting to see how you can change your behaviours if you decide not be reactive - wish I had understood half of this 6 months ago - but I didn't - 

FA - it just sounds to me like you are able to give H a more stable life - more of a home -??? 

I know I know we still respect our bum x's as parents ...I never questioned my kids seeing their dad 50/50....it is only as i see it playing out that I am thinking I'd like them here more -

it takes time and I fully believe if you w remains selfish she will end up sacrificing some vital parts of her relationship with H -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA its the same cause thats how a lot of people react. As I told my wife the moment another man is in the picture I am gone. You would have to explain to the kids why daddy isn't here. Why this was needed. After a while my wife thought about it and must have realized she wouldn't look so good. 

The difference is your wife decided to take it one step further. my wife wondered what it would be like to be with another man. She even went as far as to tell me she could see herself with somebody else but never acted on it. Hell we all fantasize about it.. Maybe my wifes vows ment more then yours did to her.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, don't get me wrong I've considered going for full custody because of her past and present actions. I even asked H the other night if he would want to live with me all the time. He said yes he would as long as he got to see mom some times. I don't know why I asked him that, I just did. But she has been a good mother - I will admit that - she is a little obsessive about him and that was another one of our problems. She put herself first, him second, me third. She doesn't see that though. 

I'm worried he will become narcisstic as well or at least think he needs to get everything he wants without trying - like her. She makes him the center of the universe. Even though she grew up poor, she was spoiled by her dad. Heck she acts like her dad although -- that is where she gets this selfishness from and doesn't even realize it.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA it will take time for the dust to settle - I am taking the softly softly approach - I already get to see the boys nearly every day because I work next to their school and I pick them up - gradually I believe my boys will end up with me more - I am just more available - it is tricky though - and not all kids could handle seeing both parents in one day so often....so hard to know what to do


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I guess this is just going to be another one of those honest conversations you are going to need to have with yourself. You just have to do what is best for your son. That's what it boils down to. I know for me somedays I wish my H would just sign over rights so I could really jsut forget about him, but at the same time I have to think of my kids. Whether he acts it or not, he is the other half that is responsible for bringing them into this world. With K on this one, this is just another tricky situation in an already horrible situation that you just have to do what you feel best.

I don't know if that really helps or not, I would just say don't make any rash decisions.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, that is what I'm trying to do for him, what is best. It is hard to tell. One day he will understand his mother's actions. But right now it is tough to determine what is best. I will always be active in his life no matter what. I coach his baseball and soccer teams. Wouldn't miss that at all. I get joy seeing him and the other kids learn and grow in the games. The confidence they get in themselves. I try to make sure they just have fun doing it.

We had a little guy on our baseball team. I finally figured out a funny way to get him to swing hard -- made him growl when he swung. AFter that he was awesome for his age. And more importantly he had a smile on his face doing it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The coaching will only help you and your son in the long run. Even if you don't have him those days...you get to spend time with him. Precious.

Coaches are special alright. It takes a special person to coach those kiddos. It's wonderful that you enjoy it so much.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I think I get more out of coaching then they do. My kids are great. I had a kid on the baseball team that just wanted to hug me all the time. Same on the soccer team. A little weird, but they have such joy. 

CW you are right that it will mean a lot to H in the long run. He'll remember that. My dad never did that -- he was always out of town on business. Not his fault, but it would have been nice to have him on the field. I take every opportunity to do it. 

That's why I started to play soccer because I know that will be a big part of H's life. It wasn't for me, but will be for him in this day and age. I wanted to learn about the game and I have and to show him I would get out there and mix it up so to speak.

My dad never did that at my age. I mentioned that to him a while ago and he said he was amazed that I could do it.

U doing all right?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My H was the assistant coach for my sons soccer team. Then he let other skilled coaches take over. We went to every practice and game. My H also was the cub/boy scout leader until 6 th grade. 

Kids remember who was involved. Just as you do.

My kids have only known involved parents. They don't know anything else. It's weird. Until they have their own will they understand the commitment and hard work that is takes to be a parent. Boy...will they be surprised.

FA: I am doing ok! I've been dealing with my saga for 1.5 years. It not fun but I do have to give it to God. I speak to my son nightly. It helps us both.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I would love to be able to coach or even have time to get my daughter into things but my rotating schedule makes it impossible to have a normal life. I think it's great you do that with your son.. I know it will build lasting memories..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I think it will LH. I hope it will.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well my son turns 2 in 2 months. I got time to find a new job and in Florida sports all year..

He has such determination it's unbelievable. He gets pissy as hell but continues until he figures out whatever he needs.. Great skills for learning sports


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, that is great with his determination and keep trying spirit. That will serve him well not only in sports but in life. Keep trying, never give up.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Coaching sports is a great way to connect with your kids. My boys are 10 and 8 and I 've coached them both in baseball, football, and basketball....every team, since they started playing t-ball at 3/4. 

I always ask them, if they would rather me sit on the sidelines and let someone else coach but they prefer me. It does feel good for other kids to come up and hug you and they are so loving. I also like for my kids to see that affection that I receive from their teammates. They've got to be thinking, "my dad is pretty special". 

Anyway, I've always been a father and husband who never lost sight of where my center, where my comfort, or where my stability origininated from. I've made mistakes but I usually get it right in the end when given the opportunity or the guidance to do better.

That's one reason I'm so frustrated with my wife for "this mess" as my S10 said last night. To give all of this up that we've built she must really be hurting. To think it would be better without me....she must just not wish to be married at all and looking to find her self and her independence.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes GB, I agree on the coaching. Ours sons should remember that always. That is why I also started playing soccer. Knowing my son would be involved in that for the foreseeable future, I took up the offer to play pick up games with my son's first soccer coach, her husband and a bunch of people from their neighborhood. Had never played, but shows him I can get out there and try. It is really enjoyable. We do it almost every Sunday afternonon year round - even when it is a little cold. The kids play with us sometimes or just play. It is a good solid few hours of fun for us adults and the kids that show up.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, so do you still have hope that my w will ever see the light? Just wondering.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

She will.. Without question.. I just don't know when.. I am growing more and more it might be at the point in which you are moved on but no doubt she has too. SHe hasn't done anything from what you said that is moving on truely. She says things but she hasn't done much of anything yet.. Still lots of challenges ahead.. Your too good of a man to stick by with the affairs she has had.. My wife hurt me but nothing like what yours did. As I said before I would have been gone if she did that.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't know LH, it seems like she has moved on. We are in mediation regarding custody and such. And OM#2 was down for the weekend. She had the gall to bring his daughter to H's soccer game on Saturday. Doesn't care what effect it has on me. She seems more indiferrent.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Its a lust.. He is delaying her thinking about an impending divorce. Mediation is still going through the motions. Nothing is final yet.. Nothing has happened to make it seperate.. She needs alone time..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I agree. A lust for everything different. For her to get "what she wants" and justifies it by placing all the blame on me. What I've learned on here is you can't change anyone but yourself which can change your spouse. But asking them to change is futile. You must first show you are willing. I've done that now. She doesn't acknowledge it right now. Some day maybe.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> I agree. A lust for everything different. For her to get "what she wants" and justifies it by placing all the blame on me. What I've learned on here is you can't change anyone but yourself which can change your spouse. But asking them to change is futile. You must first show you are willing. I've done that now. She doesn't acknowledge it right now. Some day maybe.


Think that's the bottom line...so much easier said than done, at least for me. Working on ourselves one step at a time, thats what we need to focus on.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It is harder said than done Ash. But it must be done. And it is just one step at a time.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I still think when the dust settles she will have time to see the bigger picture. The dust is coming soon. The holidays are a pain for broken relationships. She will feel it by the family acts like x-mas not together as a family. Doing stuff that normally would be family stuff. All these things she will see now..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hmmm last Christmas killed my H - in fact he cracked and started coming back - problemn was when things settled back into reality he left again ! My H has now lived through my son's bd and not been here - didn't even walk into house - he has toughened up.... he won't be caving in anytime soon -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH again I'd like to hope so, but right now she is in euphoria with the OMs. They will fill the gap so to speak of anything missing. If she didn't have that, I would agree. No, I'm the one who will be a mess during the holidays -- not her.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- If she has ANY feelings and I think she does. The OM can't fullfill that cause they don't have the memories she has with you. That is very powerful. Don't under estimate it..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

was it corpus or dazed who said on another post people have to be really hit before they change - our x's seem to be going just fine - damage control is working - they aren't gonna hit rock bottom anytime soon - but FA we are gonna be ok too - sore but ok


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Right now LH her memories of me and her are all jaded with the negativity she is projecting onto me. She doesn't look at all the things I was doing right, just ponders on the negative. As for traditions, she won't be hurt there I don't think.

Hope I'm wrong about that. Feelings? Toward me I don't think she has any left. That's just the way it is.

K, yes I think both said it. She hasn't and won't hit rock bottom until these OM things blow up is my opinion. That won't be for a while. I'm already sore.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I think everyone on here is sore! But look at it this way...we're sore now, but now we are on the upward climb! They (are spouses) are still falling they just don't know it, wont know it until they hit the bottom...and then by the time they are having to make the difficult upward journey to heal....we will be long gone having already gone over that mountain.

BTW...a saying in a fortune cookie that I got last week said this...

When you start to coast is when you are on the downgrade.

None of us are coasting right now! We are all still climbing so look at it as good news!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I know that is true for your h. Not necessarily for my w. She "went through hell" when I withdrew from her. So in her mind she is going uphill and healing with the help of OMs.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- Do you not realise I did the same to my wife?? I wasn't emotionally honest. I didn't treat her like crap persay but I didn't love her either. My wife said soething similar. I was emotionally distant and only time I went to her was for sex. Which is true but only cause I felt she wasn't giving either so the ciscle continues until somebody breaks the pattern. She started it for me and I will finish it... Finishing it I mean having a better marriage.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But my withdrawal was emotionally and then physical. I felt unworthy. I've read some posts by Recovered that describe how I felt. I know the circle will continue for her. She ascribes love with sex. So I'm sure she is "in love" with at least OM2. 

How do you give unconditional love to that person LH? I no longer even speak to her when I drop off or pick up H or for that matter really look at her. For she disgusts me right now.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

My wife withdrew sexually cause I was not doing other parts that made her feel special BUT she also did her own damage in the relationship and finally sees that as she is putting this on herself now. The circle can continue for me IF I let it cause I see how we can slip back. She is having priority issues and is withdrawing and it's forcing me to withdraw. Kind of like I don't want to be near somebody that is kicking me in the face everyday. Maybe not leterally but emotionally. I see the signs and I cut them off. I refuse to let it fall back cause we both unhappy then. The answer isn't with other people cause this is LIFE issues not mine and my wife's. It's going to make us stronhger or it wil kill me..

I struggle with unconditional love. As you can see in my thread I am having a hard time not seeing her put effort into the marriage and it's effecting my love for her. That's NOT unconditional love. I shouldn't love to expect same in return. It is very hard though.. I do't know if I can every get that good at it but I am trying everyday and this site keeps me reconnecting with her cause its a reminder of where I was..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Fa: You seem done with imagining her coming back anytime soon. I think that is a healthy way to act. I feel the same. I just can't focus on the relationship anymore. 

There really isn't one.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I still have great hope for you and your H. I don't know why, I don't care why, I just do.

I was reading some posts by Recovered earlier. Take a look at them when you have a chance. He is like LH, very straight forward. But they describe what I was. And they make me think about me and who I was and what I did.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I struggle with the whole unconditional love thing...I don't know maybe us humans are really incapable of that. Right now I am just tying to wrap my head around the things that my H did to me and the kids.

FA, i think its normal that you have those feelings of disgust for her, and as long as you keep them to yourself and don't show them in front of your son I think it is also healthy for right now. What she did was wrong and frankly sick...what you are feeling only makes you human.

On another note...good to know you hate the cowboys (sorry cw if you are a cowboys fan) Can't stand them!! Sad to hear however you are not a yankees fan. I guess we can't all be perfect!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Guys below are quotes from one of Recovered's posts

" I felt for many years of my marriage that I wasn't "good enough" for my wife....and projected that onto her hundreds of times. Still struggle with those feelings occasionally, but I recognize that "not being good enough" comes from inside of me rather than anything that my wife is doing to or near me."

"gr8, from my own experience you have to realize that those feelings tend to come from something inside of us...not because of anything the other person is doing. I struggled for many years feeling "Not Good Enough" and "Unwanted" and this internal voice colored every interaction with my wife for a long time.

When she would try to build me up and show me love and make me feel good....I didn't see it because it didn't match up with that internal voice that I had going on."

You see that is how I felt, just got worse. So yesterday after a lot of reflection I wonder if I projected onto her. I'm not saying my w tried to build me up -- still not sure of that.

But did I give her a chance to? LH, is this how you felt before you changed?

When I would act on that internal voice (like you did), it would make her angry and resentful and I would use that anger and resentment as a reinforcement for how I really felt about myself. It became a vicious self-feeding cycle and nearly destroyed everything.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

FA, did you ever put yourself down to her out loud?

My husband does that and it disturbs me. Sometimes it angers me. Sometimes I find it a great way of deflecting real issues -- because we have to deal with his inferiority issues instead. But most of the time I find it sad. I tell him to knock it off. Not everything is about him (how can it be when it is about me? ;-) )

This is a co-dependence issue. I'm using that term a lot lately but sometimes the shoe fits. But it is also a perception problem. You're looking for a positive reflection from a cracked mirror. You have to fix the mirror AND stop requiring someone else to determine your value.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Dobo, you are right. It has to do with a lot of issues which I'm working through. No never really out loud, maybe once in a blue moon. You are right, it is sad.

I just found the post interesting more for the projection issues.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> When I would act on that internal voice (like you did), it would make her angry and resentful and I would use that anger and resentment as a reinforcement for how I really felt about myself. It became a vicious self-feeding cycle and nearly destroyed everything.


I used to do that do, in fact I know that that is an issue that I need to work on. I had a very poor self image, low self esteem and so in a sense it would make my H angry bc I would never believe him where he said he was going, always thought he would cheat etc etc. So whenever he would say something or tell me something a voice in my head would say come on you know he is lying he cant be telling you the truth or he doesn't mean that. And yes that is something that I (and maybe you as well?) need to work on but it also does (in a small way perhaps) need (or needed to) come from them. Not blaming my H at all for my own personal issues...but me finding out about all his other children, him having another relationship during our separation,etc did not help it either. 

So yes we are responsible for how we feel, but how we feel is also affected by who we allow in our lives.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My H...did this out loud and more so the past year. He always made statement that I was "perfect" and "always know the right things to do and say." I got tired of hearing it...I told him that I wasnt' perfect and it made me wanna puke when he said it! THAT'S how tired I was of hearing it.

He would say things about himself (negative) and then recant. 

Overall, he felt inferior to me. I am a pretty strong person. I've gone through life with as much class that I would muster. I don't judge him for his mistakes, we all have different tolerance levels and personalities. 

It wasn't until I looked back that I discovered this inferiority complex. He is a wonderful man...it's a shame that he wastes his energy on his less-than abilities.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

sure is


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- My issues with my wife were small compared to what she was doing. I was lost at what else I could do. I already did the cooking. Cleaning.. Provided income. Pool boy.. Lawn boy.. Mother/father.. No matter what I did it wasn't good enough fo my wife. I felt no matter what I did she couldn't be happy and couldn't understand. So when she withdrew emotionally and physically.. I saw no effort on her part to reconnect I withdrew. 

I don't know if you are doing this cause I haven't seen you interact with your wife..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, the posts by Recovered just resonated with me because maybe I was projecting on to her, my insecurities and the fact I seemed to just try and try with my w without seeming to get anywhere. I just hadn't thought about it. I never said much out loud that I felt lowly, maybe once in a while, but that is how I felt on the inside at times. 

Turns out you are right about my w missing the holiday traditions. During Thanksgiving holidays she would always go shopping with my SIL. My w has e-mailed her to see if my SIL wants to go shopping next Wednesday. My SIL doesn't know what to do. I told her it would upset me but it isn't my choice. Also explained your theory on missing traditions and she gets it.

My w is trying to play victim now with everybody. My SIL told my w that my brother wanted to talk with her and she is like oh no they are conspiring to make me the bad guy. I've got nothing to hide she says. I told him what I need, blah, blah, blah. This has been all e-mail communication. After my SIL read it to me I said, yes isn't it interesting that is all couched in terms of what I needed, what I demanded instead of what "we" needed. I always think in terms of the we and not I. She always places herself first. Not good in a relationship. 

So she might get the tradition if my SIL goes with her.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Funny how she tell your SIL that she got nothing to hide.

Hmmm.

Why don't you ask her about her "friends?" Maybe she can explain, since she isn't hiding.

Makes me angry. It's like the elephant in the room. She making a fool of herself.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It's going to get tense in the coming weeks. The holidays will stress it more.. Especially when kids involved. She will do some reflecting.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Maybe LH, but if she gets to do her traditions like shopping with my SIL, she won't "miss" them as much. She does risk my SIL talking with her. 

I read a lot about unconditional love the last couple of days. I think I can do it with her, but obviously I have to get rid of my anger and resentment towards her to be successful.

I keep repeating I love her unconditionally no matter what she says or does. I think I finally grasp that UL just means accepting her flaws and moving forward.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- From what I experienced.. Unconditional love is pretty easy fromthe outside loking in. Let me explain. When you want something so bad you push away the bad in any person.. You see your wife for what you want and feel about her in the good way. So the spot you are in now is VERY easy. Where unconditional love gets very tough is where I am now. I am reconcilled and trying to build it stronger then before. What it takes is work between both. I am having problems now that she is "loving" me of accepting no matter what love she gives is ok.. I want more.. I am looking for a relationship where we are both trying to show each other that we love them more. So that bad word expectations comes in.. I am expecting her to follow my path but the problem is she gets side tracked. Allows everything else to get in front. This is what causes our mariage problems. Example we signed papers yesterday to sell house. She started to put her mind on the issues with selling the house and pushed us in the back. Explained thats where we went wrong. Everything has a priority at some point. My issues are the marriage should be first no ands ifs or buts.. I will still try my unconditional love but I don't know if I will EVER get mastered of it..


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Its a process I would think. Some days are probably easier than others, like everything else. Unconditional love is something that most days you will have to make a conscious effort to put it into practice.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA - hi - the important person to love right now is you -


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

:iagree:


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I can imagine it is harder when you are reconciling because that does kind of set up expectations in your mind. 

Ash, unconditional love it totally conscious I think for everyone in your life but kids. No matter how angry or mad at them for what they do, you still love them and want to hold them.

K & Ash, yes I am working on loving myself. I've learned that is the first step to be able to give unconditional love to others.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Unconditional love is difficult when the person you trusted has chosen another path. 

However, knowing that you can STILL love someone even if they hurt you is empowering and almost equal to forgiveness. It doesn't mean that you need to accept abuse, etc. It means you love them through their flaws.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I am trying to get there with this unconditional love.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Unconditional love is difficult when the person you trusted has chosen another path.
> 
> However, knowing that you can STILL love someone even if they hurt you is empowering and almost equal to forgiveness. It doesn't mean that you need to accept abuse, etc. It means you love them through their flaws.



Yes but as humans we have a hard time with this. We seem to work better when things are recipocated. I know thats what is my battle. I love my wife but when my feelings are being jestered and hers isn't up there like mine I get upset. I shouldn't expect it but I do..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's difficult when the lack of effort is contantly in your face. When you live separate it's not a constant reminder of what you aren't getting.

You on the other hand...I see in a precarious position. Your relationship is no longer on the fence but is still delicate. Without your strength I am afraid that it may go south.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

You have a lot on your shoulders LH, I admire you for how you seem to be handling it.

And for you FA, hope you are doing well...and if you find the answer to the whole unconditional love thing...please tell!! Hang in there, I admire you as well. It comforts me to know that their are men out there who do care about their children and it doesn't hurt when both of you remind me what a jackass my H was!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree with Ash guys! It's important to have you here and remind us of what fools our H's can be....


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- I bet you girls are doing the same things us guys are. I wish my husband got it like these guys. As I posted in Ash's thread. I wish my wife fought as hard as you girls do. I feel like I miss that complete relationship. As my wife tells me those feelings will be back in time just got to give her the time. She said she burried them so long cause of how our relationship went sour. The feelings are more to do with the wall coming down and openly trying to love. To be honest I don't think my wife was ever like that. Then again I have a hard time remembering how I felt after 5 year of marriage. Kind of funny.. I do know now I have emotionly matured farther then I ever have before and I feel better..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I agree with LH. I say I wish my w fought like CW, K, and Ash would instead of just jumping into a relationship to hide her feelings. Yes "she" tried to reach me and me not hearing hurt her. But she didn't try to fix the relationship from her end and isn't now. But LH I think I can move with unconditional love. NOt that we'd get together but that maybe she would see that love isn't conditional. She has so many expectations of how her partner must be -- notice must - that it is all in her head. 

That is what I can't understand - nor will I ever. But if she doesn't work on herself she will be doomed. Now I've got to ask LH and all this. Her birthday is the 21st of December. Should I get her something? Should I send a card? What would unconditional love be in this moment?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

hmmm I just don't know the answer to that one FA - I am thinking card more than gift???


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

A card or perhaps help your son pick out a gift and card for his mom. She will know you had a hand in it, given his age.

I'm not sure how to react during these supposedly times of celebration? I ask myself what to do during our anniversary (25th). I can't ignore it and won't. Even if we were divorced. Perhaps a card...it all seems to strange doesn't it?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Could I be wrong about the OMs? She has told a mutual friend that nothing is going on with either. Could I be just reading too much into all these incidents? I found this out today. 

It just seems so coincidental all of it. I just don't know. Makes me wonder. 

I actually bought her a coffee before I dropped H off with her this evening. I don't know why. I just did. I don't expect anything from her regarding it. Just seemed like a nice thing to do. 

Just rambling with the thoughts in my head. LH, I want to have hope........


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: She is your wife. You are separated. It's in my opinion, without your son present, that you should have a talk with her.

If you have doubts or questions you should ask her directly. I know it's not your nature. Ask her if she seeing someone else? Hear her response and watch her body language and listen......

I REALLY think this is overdue. Don't make it a shouting match or argument. It's a simple conversation...

What do you think?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

I don't know. If I do it won't be a shouting match or argument. That is my interest in working to unconditional love with her. That seemed to be LH's first step of really working on himself.

I guess I'm afraid of the answer to be honest.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA why are you suddenly doubtful of OM's ?
There's nothing to be afraid of in the answer - it will help you get to the next stage - 
You are married to this woman - you deserve clarity - these are yes or no answers - it shouldn't be hard for her to deal with them..


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

FA, you deserve this conversation! You DESERVE it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, I guess I'm doubtful because she still tells others there is nothing but friendship. What does she have to lose now with the truth. And then thinking about not telling H about what is happening. I mean I don't have any physical proof only circumstantial. Although this other guy being down during the week, that weekend and this weekend seems a lot. I just don't know what to think the truth is at all with respect to these guys.

Her words imply a truth and then her actions imply another. I'm not sure what to think.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA - I don't know whether what I am going to say applies to your situation - I really don't - it has only come up for me because it applies to my situation.
I've had this conversation (about OW) with my H - he said "no it was nothing - it is nothing" and he looked away as he said it - and at the time I believed him - but I have also talked it through with my counsellor - and she said that she is amazed at people's ability to 'lie to themselves' about this stuff - she says she talks to people all the time who say - "but we were only meeting for lunch, we are just friends etc" - is it true??? well yes it is a version of the truth - but it aint the whole truth -
I also remember my MC saying that affairs - real or imaginary did the same sort of damage....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K. I realize that there can be truths and the whole truth now. Thanks.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

knortoh said:


> well yes it is a version of the truth - but it aint the whole truth -
> I also remember my MC saying that affairs - real or imaginary did the same sort of damage....



So true.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

But FA - I think it's a good idea for you to have this conversation -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Fa. I guess I am on the other side then the rest. I think confronting her might make it worse. she is your with but she wants out. While if she is with somebody else she will say we not together I don't want us. If she wasn't she will get upset that you are confronting her. Either way she will get upset. Nothing good will come about besides as you said you can only work on yourself. I would though try and stop thinking about her with somebody or not. Not good for your health.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I agree with you. Nothing good will come of talking with her about it. I'll be the "controlling" guy to further cement her irrational beliefs. Besides, after talking with my personal yoda, of course she says to others it is just a friendship - she doesn't want to look bad - she is in a defensive mode. She can't be wrong about anything so continue on the charade. And you are right, I can't keep thinking about it. Time to let go of that last little hope and just get on.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA - we will have hope - lots of it just for different stuff right now


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K. I've just got to let that glimmer go. So I can just be.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Just keep chin up and appear happy that your moving on.. It is hard but hold onto hope this has to come to a head eventually.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not a good actor LH. I don't show emotion very much in general. But when I am emotional - I can't hide it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes. Think about this FA. I just would want some closure or at least hear her side. You can choose to believe her or not afterwards. It's not confrontation. Knowing the truth will help you move on. I feel she owes you an explanation or her behavior. 

It's just my opinion. You know your relationship best.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It came up in our second mediation regarding OM2. She was like he's a junior high school friend who is looking to move her, just helping him out, blah, blah, blah. Nobody, but some gullible women (sorry but some women believe there can be truly platonic relationships and there can be if exact boundaries etc are kept but they aren't here). 

So LH, we will see. I want so to believe her, but the logic just doesn't compute.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Maybe the OM2 is the truth? What's her answer to OM1 and the hand holding etc?

I guess you figure these questions are pointless now?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't know CW what the truth is anymore. Words are one thing and actions are another. He comes down too much in my book. Who knows.

She said she still loved me but just couldn't be married to me. She doesn't "trust" me. CW if you want to know I'll PM you.

Here new reality is here though. She can't deny what I told you about anymore. Maybe LH is right that this could be the beginning of her realizing her errors. She didn't today. Someone needs to point out her issues to her besides me - me she doesnt believe.

I wish her mom would, but she won't.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- She will face herself someday. Question is will you still want her. I can tell you my wife said the SAME thing about trust. My guess is she has seen some changes in you and now is afraid. Keep the focus. Work on unconditional love. It takes 21 days to make a habit. 

Don't dwell on the OM.. it can not help. It will make you feel like crap and get in the way of what your trying to do.You will someday have a chance to address those issues.. I did with my wife once we were on track. Even though I was worried about her doing something. Nothing was there. Our minds tend to make things worse then they are. Sort of parronoid.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, in so many ways what you went through and are going through is what I am going through. Except the OMs that is for sure. It is hard not to think of them. She isn't exactly making it easy - and I don't know if I trust her. We had rules when she moved out and was "working on us" which she promptly broke with OM1. So it is hard for me to trust her. But I try not to think about it. 

But you've been going through this longer, not necessarily recently but 5 years ago etc. I'll try my best no to think about it. Give her unconditional love.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Loving Husband said:


> Our minds tend to make things worse then they are. Sort of parronoid.


That is very true. I do this ALL the time. And while my H (and possibly your W FA) is more than likely doing some of the stuff I imagine him to be doing....it doesn't help at all to think about it and your mind will always imagine the worst. Whenever I think about how my H told me back in October he had a physical and emotional relationship with a woman soon after we separated, it takes quite a lot of strength to force it out of my mind. It still hurts but its better than just thinking about everything that he and her did.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, you and LH are correct. I don't dwell on what I think they are doing. I just am in disbelief (as are others who know) how she is acting. How she contradicts many things, etc.

LH - I'm still in shock she said I love you but can't be married to you. TO me either you are in love or aren't. And if you are, you don't run away. Your thoughts oh great master of anonymous land.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> LH - I'm still in shock she said I love you but can't be married to you. TO me either you are in love or aren't. And if you are, you don't run away. Your thoughts oh great master of anonymous land.


I agree. Unless there is some abuse involved, I don't see a valid excuse for leaving. I guess I'm old fashioned. Commitment is commitment.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

This goes back to her not trusting you. She seems to be afraid to trust going back into the marriage and it not getting better. My wife was same and it took consistant love and time for her to come back but as you can tell she still tests me but now the tables are turned. She is starting to face herself not me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, you and Voivod are rocks of stamina. I realize that the wall is based on her "trust" issue. Problem is it goes deeper than just me -- she doesn't trust anyone. The issue she has with me was important (I PM'd you about it) but if it wasn't that it would have been something else. That is the basis of her jealousy --- her inability to trust a man completely. So that is most likely her core issue. I need a road map to help her and us. The funny thing is she "trusts" my judgement with our son, but not in other things.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Cause its not her personally. Trust is trust no matter what it is. If she doesn't trust anything your doing its going to hurt your relationship. All you can do is be as honest as possible. I know I reassure my wife on everything I am doing. She trusts me. Though during our issues she started to wonder but I kept proving to her I was doing what I said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Let me give you an example of an issue my wife had during this process. It was one of a savings account I started. I opened up about a year ago so we could have an x-mas or vacation money available to do things with. She had no problems. I put money every paycheck away in there. Anything extra I got went in there like Income tax returns. Well during her angry months she kept coming back on my with that money. Saying that account is in your name not mine.. You can do anything you want with it. How do I know your not spending all that money or working on trying to keep that from me. So I opened our online account and showed all the transactions. It said all deposits and NO withdrawls. I said this is our fun money when we need it. After that she stopped questoning me.. If that is your wifes fear prove to her your on the up and up.. If will help her feel safe and we know thats HUGE for a women to feel safe in a relationship..

By the way Happy Thanksgiving..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks for the specifics. And you have a good Thanksgiving as well. I'm getting outside to play some football today with friends.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Football! Hopefully tag or flag!! 

Have a wonderful T-Day....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good old flag football. It was good times. Sun came out and was around 60. A little mud but that is football. Lots of kids playing in the woods. My little guy actually came in and played. It was fun. We took some group photos at half time. When i get one, I'll post it up.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

looking forward to those photos FA -


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Glad you had a good thanksgiving, your lil man too!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Sounds like a bunch of fun! Can't wait to see the pics.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, it was fun. Good time with good people. I realize that is what is best in life. Those times. Just have to keep having those experiences. All of us. 

You should go out with your friends brother. Just to go out. Doesn't have to mean anything.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No not this one. He's a player. He semi dates another girl that I am friends with and she keeps thinking he's going to change. Maybe low self esteem. I don't have that and wouldn't want to stir the pot! Not my style.

Do you mean that you are giving up already on our "date." HA!

I am really enjoying my experiences with other quality people in my life. It's priceless. I feel that after all of these years that I am beginning to bloom. It's wierd but I haven't been single in adulthood before....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Heck no I'm not giving up on the date. But it might be a while before it happens. I will understand if you go out with "others" before then though. JUst don't let it get serious. 

Hope you laughed at that one. Haven't asked about C? Doing ok?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You don't have to worry about me getting serious FA!

C is fine. Hanging in there.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You know when you say things like that - the opposite usually happens. But I know what you mean -- serious is work.

Glad C is hanging in.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Everyday is different and you never know what it might bring. That is life!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I've got to tell you that you are a very grounded person. I know you've done a lot of work on yourself to get to where you are now, but just wanted to say I appreciate your take on things.

From CW's thread you posted there about me walking away from the hug request. Maybe she is looking for strength from me. It just sucks we are moving through this crap. Her trust issue with me will be difficult to overcome without being together - or at least it seems to me. When you were seperated from your w, how did you interact with her?

I just don't know sometimes what to do. I need to be able to point out her issues subltly to her in a nice way, but that is hard for me to do right now. I wish she had an older sister like your w to push her on her issues.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> I just don't know sometimes what to do. I need to be able to point out her issues subltly to her in a nice way, but that is hard for me to do right now.


Your confused aren't you? I don't blame you, you are in a tough, awkward situation. As far as pointing out her issues...as a woman let me give a little advice. First off, you probably have every right to point out what she has done, is doing, etc. But you might not want to do that before you have a firm idea of what YOU need to fix, only because guarentteed she will come back with your issues that you need to fix. Another thing to try is to just be open. If she comes to you and asks what do you think that I need to work on type thing. In that case answer her, but try to keep it brief as to avoid a possible arguement.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash: FA has REALLY done alot of work on himself since the separation. He was a serious Nice Guy (NG). He may describe himself as a work-in-progress (aren't we all) but he's come along way. You may have not read his full posts as we are getting rather lengthy threads!!!!

FA: Do you have any feelings, at this point, when you see your wife? I am wondering if you are THAT detached at this point.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Fa- she was looking for your support as if you are still together. She needs reality check that she can't treat you like and still get all the support she would normally get. It probably shocked her. That is positive for what you are doing. 

For me when we separated the first month I tried to convince her to come back. Calling her emailing. After beating my head I went no contact. That is when my wife had time to reflect. It did help the holidays were near and she took me back the week before Xmas. What I learned was nothing obviously. Really I didn't see why we fell apart. I hate to point fingers but the more I see her grow in the relationship now I know it was her that killed it. Not that she wanted to buy her inability to let that wall down killed it again. Now I won't give up till we tkere we have a special connection and show love a lot to each other. More then most couples together almost 20 years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I was not implying that FA hasn't done any work on himself, I know he has I can tell by the words he writes in his posts, I am only saying that in a situation like this to just be prepared for the fingers to point at you. Your spouse pointing out what you need to fix when you are simply trying to tell them (gently) stuff that you would like for them to work on in order for the relationship to work. When my H had talked about getting back together I told him what he needed to do (my list) but when I said that his retort was always well you need to do this this and this, and he didn't really word it as nice!

My thought is FA, and this is for all of us, we are all works in progress, and whatever your future holds for your w and you FA, "if the what we need to change becomes the topic of conversation between the both of you to just be prepared for harsh words, its humans defense mechanism.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, believe me I know my issues. You've just come late to my party is all. No she only talks about my issues. Never, ever once have I heard her take on any responsibility. To her it is all me. As you know, it takes two to tango and two to destroy. 

CW, just disgust. I don't think I do anymore CW. I don't know.


LH, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't know -- quite frankly I don't care. I don't care if I hate her and she knows. What is the difference at this point.

Let me ask you all a question, especially LH. Tonight when dropping off my lil guy. She was asking about this weekend. Her mother is coming down to visit. She has asked me to let my lil guy stay with her on his night with me this weekend. Just wondering what you would do?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Of course this is part of being happy cause if you said no it would confirm her anger towards you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I haven't told her yes or no yet. My first inclination is to say ok because in the long run we need to work together and be flexible on this stuff. But at the same time more advanced notice should be given and the weekend night is the only night of the week that he stays with me. The other nights we go to dinner and talk, take a walk or just go browse through stores.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I would do it FA. Tell her, nicely, that you'd like more advance notice in the future in case you have plans.

This flexibility that you give will allow HER more flexibility on her part (for the future).

It's the best way possible in my opinion.

My H has our D for one week at a time. However, there are instances in which I will go out of town on my weekend or visa versa. I try to give as much notice as possible and he is the same. In fact, there has be NO dispute whatsoever but my daughter is 15. Maybe that makes a difference. 

Sometimes, he has a late business meeting on his week and she just stays at my place anyway. 

You will be doing this for a long time. Flexibility is best.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, as I said it is my inclination to do that. Just wish I knew earlier. This weekend is the first weekend of the month and I had informal plans to do a couple of things. Home Depot has a kids morning for a project that he always likes (he and I did them before when no other things like baseball or soccer interfered). Also there is a small town here that totally lights up the entire town with X-mas decorations. Affectionally known as Christmas Town, USa (they've done PBS docs about it) it starts today and was going to take him this weekend. Those aren't big, but to me they are so I am giving that up. Of course she doesn't care. I just don't know.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Well. Flexibility goes both ways. Maybe you can keep him until Saturday after lunch and drop him off. Or, you can pick him up for dinner and the lighting and then drop him back off. 

Don't discount your plans but fit hers in as well (modified).

Your son is lucky to have such a caring dad!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Your son is lucky to have such a caring dad!


I agree! 
FA, you have every right to your feelings. Honor them.
I can't even imagine how all of you parents deal with the complexity of an already painfully, complex situation as separation or divorce.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

FA its your call really. CW made some good points. You could tell her that your son can be with her for that day but in the future more notice is needed as you had already made plans and b/c of that you would like to have him an extra day so you guys can do what you planned.

CW is also right in that you both will be doing this for a long time. So in the future if it looks like you are always the one that is being "flexible" with your time with your son, thats when you might want to put your foot down.

Its difficult I'm sure. Although I obviously wish my children could have a father in their lives...I can't imagine handling some of the situations most of you with children are having to face. Keep your head up


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW, Wren, and Ash. The points you've all made are the ones that were and are going through my head on this. On the one hand it is H's grandmother, on the other she needs to give more advance notice, but I know some time I will need her to be flexible for me. But since she likes to do trips to WV relatively frequently on the weekends - she will need my flexibility.

I guess for me it all boils done to H. What is in his best interests regardless of how I feel.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It always boils down to the kids FIRST in a split. If you were together it would be your wife first then the kids. Since she isn't with you they move to the top of the list. I know it's hard FA.. Trust me I didnt know how I would handle it. If I split with my wife I told her I might move to Florida by myself. That made her mad. She was like you would turn your back on your kids. I said no but I refuse to stay in a state that will bury me. NJ is very tough unless you make very good money. I make decent money but with Child Support and Benefits I wouldn't have much left. I would end up losing everything. Good thing it didn't come to that..


This is something you will be shuffling until they are 18. It's a road your wife needs to see and think about. Most people going through this don't see past the immediate future. What about how school plays out.. It will change everything.. Between picking up and homework and any other activities. It can be 10 times worse then in the marriage. All things that she should know about what to expect..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, I decided and did what was best for H. I agreed to the change - but said next time I need more advance request because I had some informal plans. So we will see. Unconditional love for her and for him. I really don't expect her to be flexible in the future for me -- just not her way.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good for you FA! Your right you have to do what is best for H, even if it hurts you. Your a wonderful father and I hope your W will respect your wishes and give you more of a notice the next time.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I just hate it though. As much as I want to say I'm totally detached, I still have that shred of hope. LH, hopefully she was alone on the holidays but who knows.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Many of us have hope FA. Even though we are detached...we still have hope.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, hope is what hurts though. She isn't thinking of anything but her new life it seems to me. She made a comment last week at mediation that I thought was odd. That you seem to be at where I was a year ago. I don't know what that means at all nor have I really analyzed it.

Remember she said she tried reaching me but I didn't hear her (in her mind meaning I didn't care enough about her to hear her). It is true I didn't hear her or my pride wouldn't let me, but once I did it didn't matter. Like I was on her time table and I didn't live up to it so adios cause you didn't love me enough.

LH, I hope you are right about these holidays making a difference. But I'm not going to hold my breathe on it. How will I even know? I keep hoping for something from her, but what. Was the hug request it and I didn't do it right. I know you feel I did the right thing, and so did I but was she looking for me to do reciprocate - again a testing of my love.

Who knows.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You can't analyze these things FA. You know your wife best and if you don't want/feel like hugging then that's ok. There are no right or wrongs.

Her statement regarding you feeling like she did a year ago...seems to mean the feelings of detachment. I don't know. 

She will feel the holidays. She is human right? She remembers the past holidays with her little family. Now, it's changed.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Make sure she gets no little perks of being a family to soften her effects of not being together. The fact you didnt comfort her before told her you are not there right now and she can't lean on you when she wants. Kind of like a wake up call. Same with the holidays. She needs to see what the future is to bring.. You know your wife you'll know when she is letting her guard down..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA in the beginning I was not able to be flexible - it hurt too much - now my H and I are very flexible - if I think one of the boys is missing him I will ring him up and send them over - I am hoping that what goes round comes round? I know it makes no sense in some ways - but as my sister said - my H and I have always been kind and considerate to eachother - why change your behaviour just because you are getting DIVORCED????? mad ol' world...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

K- Easy to say when your heart isn't involved.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH,

She won't be from me, but from others she might. She did go shopping with my SIL over Thanksgiving. A tradition type of thing they always did. But I can't control that.

Question, her b-day is on the 21st. Would you send a card?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I would FA, but I would sign (well in your case your son can do) you son's name to it.

My H b-day was the 25 of Aug and even though my son was only around 9 months and I still was pregnant with my daughter I sent him a card but I just signed their names to it


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I do the buying a present for him from the kids - I was feeling quite lighthearted this year on his birthday and also gave him a cake and a kiss - he didn't deserve either of those -
It's early days to be feeling ok with giving at all -
I keep on thinking I have to be his friend at least - we have two kids and we have been good friends - but - right now I think even that is sh** I have decided that I have really 'weird' relationship with him - not partner - not friends, not lover, just an x all of those...he's an x - sorry FA I am talking about me - do you wanna send a card?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I'm sending a card from H and will get a present for her from him. I got a card to send from me. Nothing mushy or expression of love or anything. On front says Hey, it's your birthday! There's cake!
On inside: What's there not to be happy about.

She loves cake.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Just don't know if I will send it or not.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well. LH, you were wrong. My w talked with my SIL and she is done. It is over.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know it hurts FA. It hurts even if the signs point to the obvious. 

To hear it from another person that she's confided in reopens the wound. 

Nothing has changed has it? You are still in the same position you were yesterday. Still doing an incredible job as a man and dad. 

Doesn't mean anything at this point. You are going to live your life and move forward. She may come around. Don't wait. Just live.

One day she said she made a vow and you took her at face value. That changed. One day she separated to get some space. That changed. Now she's done. Is that to NEVER change? Maybe. Her track record is that she CAN change her mind.

I believe this with my H. Human emotions can change in a moment. Especially for those that are tied to us in some way.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm sorry FA. Sending you cyber hugs! Just be good to yourself.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Words have a way of hurting more then actions sometimes.. Her saying to your SIL she is done doesn't mean much. My wife told me she was done in our MC sessions. She had NOTHING left for me. Just wanted to go to MC to help me deal with the divorce. She had a 15 min conversation with her and when they brought me in the MC told me she has no interest. In fact after we left she told me she never seen anybody gone so far and come back. Well she was WRONG.. You need to go by actions.. Even then don't believe them all.. Not trying to keep your hopes up only but just letting you know sometimes things are not as they seem..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

Am I doing a good job as a man CW. All you know is what I write and no matter how factual I try to make it, it is still biased by me.

I will continue working on myself. That is all I can do. I read a copy of Divroce Remedy yesterday. It was enlightening to me since it had practical things to do and how to do them. I do need to follow the concepts. LH, if you haven't read it you advise like you have in a lot of ways. MOstly about breaking cycles. That one person has to change their interaction to break the cycles. I will do that.

But you are right CW. I just need to find myself. Who am I really?

If I can change, she can right? Not holding out much of anything right now.

LH, it seems total disconnect by her.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- My wife is now constantly telling me thank you for being here and I don't deserve you.. This from a few months ago her saying she was done and nothing left. The only way to improve your situation is to break the cycle. How you interact and how you treat her.. You want this you need to make the FIRST move. She is waiting for that. I mentioned my wife told me when we were going through this that she ALWAYS had to make the first move. Well she wanted me to. I stuck with the love dare and didn't give up.. By the day 20's she was looking forward to my dares.. She didn't know if my actions were part of the dare or not... It was funny.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I really realize that from reading Divorce Remedy over the last few days and reading posts on that online community. She may be detached, but I still need to take the first step and do 180s with her with regard to how I act. Always evaluating what works and what doesn't so I don't keep doing things that don't work.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: We are both biased in your favor! Unless you can write and give me reasons why you aren't a good father...then give it up!

You are a man that puts his child first and are supportive in every way. Anything else that I should know?

Don't you dare go negative on me....

LH is right. They will change their minds. To what degree...who knows?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, 

Not negative. Just more introspection. Had a long conversation with my brother. He opened my eyes on some things about me from his perspective. Unlike some of people who love you and just want to feel better immediately, my brother wants me to be better long term so he doesn't hold back. Now sometimes to wake me up about a point he exaggerates. But it is his way to make me focus.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's good to have a brother to not sugar-coat things. Aren't they good at smacking you around? haha

Give yourself credit and try not to doubt yourself too much. It can be difficult but you have come along way.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

FA- The best to do right now is to just keep pressing forward and to continue to be the best man and the best father that you can be. And yes along that road you can continue to "work" on being the best husband you can be, but don't let that slow you down or deter you from moving forward. You can still, by doing small things, show your wife how you feel, how you've changed, etc but still move foward/on if that makes sense.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, thanks for the encouragement. I will always be there for my son. It does make sense. Keep up your work, you are doing great!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Your son is one lucky boy!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

He's not that lucky CW. He just has a dad who loves him thats all. Had fun today playing soccer with him. He came with and played for an hour or so. We played for almost 3 hours. Even though a little chilly today - 45 degrees. Just pull on the winter hat and go. It was fun. good time. She actually invited me in when I dropped off H to see their tree. First time in a long time she invited me in to her place. I kept upbeat with her, some discussion and then made sure I was the one to end it -- no lingering to wait for her to end it. LH, chime in when you can.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good Job FA!! Good for you. All I want to say at this point is...45 degrees?? What I wouldn't give for 45 degrees....haha

You doing great FA. You ever seen the movie What About Bob? Baby steps...you are doing baby steps! And those can be the hardest and most effective ones.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

What do you mean 45 degrees...that is parka weather around here! haha. Ash are you saying 45 degrees would be something to look forward to...

FA: Do you have difficulty taking compliments? I mean your son is lucky. Yes...he's lucky to have a dad that loves him. Many kids don't have a dad that sticks around or cares. You sound like a great guy FA. Don't sell yourself short. 

That is a softening, in my book, FA. When she invited you in that meant she is putting out the olive branch of sorts. That is how I'd take it!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA I am trying to picture you guys playing soccer in the cold - I know I have said it before but you really need to get 'kicking and screaming' out - you can watch it with Harrison....

You sound like you are doing great with everything. I haven't looked at my H for weeks - can't even do that. You're making cheery conversation! That's pretty cool


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Oh yea I would look forward to 45 degrees! It was 23 degrees and dropping yesterday when I left work!


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> Your son is one lucky boy!


I agree. Trust me. As a child of a father that was emotionally unavailable, you are giving him a tremendous gift!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ok CW, I'm a good father. No mas. I guess I just can't imagine it any other way. Ash we'll probably play in January and February as well. We have the last two years. 

Yes I took that as a softening as well. I just need to keep doing Divroce Rememdy's suggestions. 180s, GALing, last resort technique, etc. I'm not giving up on her, but I'm also not counting on it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good night tonight with lil H. Helped him with some homework and then read him a letter he received from Australia from another young boy. He loved it. Showed it off to some people whom he knew. Thanks K and thank R. I'll make sure H writes a letter back soon.

He's got his Christmas "Opera" at school Thursday night. He is excited. 

Again I was upbeat and confident with W. I'm just creating a boundary with her - of no favors or attention. Putting back in a little mystery about myself as well. She looked miserable for some reason. The local OM was in his truck in the parking lot where I picked up H (where they work) and she went to talk with him as H and I left. I didn't even acknowledge him. I suspect the juggling is getting to her. She made her bed, now she's got to lie in it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I'm glad you gave up on the good father thing. I was going to have to hurt you!

I think it would be wonderful to have a pen pal as a kid. It's a lost art. 

The local OM has a family. Christmas is a time for families and he's being pulled by his own. She, on the other hand, is struggling with an unavailable OM and her own shattered life. She is feeling it FA.
She isn't the first person in line with this OM. She is discovering this....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, thank you for the compliment. As i said I just can't imagine not being there for him - would seem strange to me. Heck I'm just scared about raising him well like everyone else. But I've learned and am learning a lot about what I should be doing and how to do it.

Yes, it might be she is feeling it now. Or something else. Just not my problem anymore.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Your damn right its not your problem!! Good job FA! We all have our hands full with everything else that is going on and raising our kids and trying to make ends meet, we don't need the added stress. Keep doing what your doing. And thats awesome that your son and k's son are penpals, that made me smile real big when i read that!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

glad H liked it FA - we look forward to hearing from H one day.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, sorry if I put it out there on the board, but it was such a great idea and hit with H that I wanted everyone to know about your idea. My apologies if that wasn't to be known. Maybe others on these forums will do the same. For it is a lost art - not e-mails, not texts, really putting thought into your words. I think the world lacks that and has lost something there.

We'll try to work on a letter this weekend.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA no worries - 
no hurry with the letter as well - whenever you have time


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, we will work on one.

LH, I need your thoughts. So we are moving through mediation. That is almost done with a legal seperation agreement. She seems to be softening some - see she invited me into her place to see christmas tree. I'm keeping upbeat around her - see she seemed down on Monday. 

I'm trying to determine our cycles. That is the toughest thing to really pinpoint the different things we did to each other and then do a 180 from my perspective.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I guess what are your thoughts on the above?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I have been reading and jumping in when I have something to offer that somebody hasn't already.. 


Holidays do tend to make people soften. That's why I always said there will be a change eventually and as long as you don't escalate he situation it will give it an opportunity to improve. You are doing great not giving her a change to vent out on you. 

We all tell you to not worry about the actions she is doing. She doesn't know.. Keep the focus away on her and you will detach easier.. This has a LONG way o go but there is hope..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks LH. I am working on determining the cycles and my part in them. She would want to talk (aka be angry and loud) I would avoid. I won't avoid anymore. She wanted more physical touch - if we progress in the future that will be done by me.

Right now I've just gone totally dark. But that is interesting. I was never the big contact person to begin with so although that is what is needed, it seems it would be a 180 if I contacted her more. I'm not going to do that.

Just rambling. I've started running again. I detest running but need some physical outlet. Also if anyone wants to join on this I found a website with 6 week layout of how to build up to doing 100 consecutive pushups, 100 consecutive sit ups and 200 consecutive squats. I haven't started the program on pushups, but have on sit ups. GOt a slight pinched nerve in my left arm - keeping me from doing push ups right now.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Anger=good.. The ore stable you are the more angry she will get trust me.. 

No leaving her alone is good even if thats what you have done. Peace is what she needs to think.. 

Exercise.. HAHA.. I barely get a chance to sit. I work retail and on a concrete floor with 2 legs that have severe arthritist. I had to retire from softball after 20 years cause it was becoming too much. I would play 1 or 2 games a week and my knee would swell up and had to wear a brace for 3 days after cause it hurt so much. Doctor says nothing he can do but knee replacement surgery is in my future. The more I abuse it the more likely it will happen earlier.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey FA I would love to join that program. I started running again two weeks after I had my daughter. I love to run!! And its funny bc I used to detest it as you said a few years ago but between the army and me forcing myself to, I feel horrible when I don't run! But now with it being so cold I have had to resign myself to running inside on a treadmill. 

But I have been wanting to get back into the whole pushups and situps so if you could give me some info that would be great.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash,

Go to onehundredpushups.com

It lays out the program for you in a six week time frame. Also has sit ups and squats.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey FA I just went to the site and whenever i would click on a link it would send me to google search.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sorry Ash, try one hundred push ups


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Cool, I found it, I'm going to start it today, thanks!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I only run when someone is chasing me. Otherwise, it's a terrific way to stay in shape. 

I'm going to check out the site myself.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA are you by any chance setting yourself up as our personal trainer? Will you be checking on our progress? Cracking the whip?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't know K but with that comment drop and give me 20.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You all have webcams right?? Could be a funny conference with all of you doing exercises.. HAHAHA


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yesterday was a day of set backs for me. But I've started journaling. Not something I'm really good at, but I need to jot things down so I have a record of my baby steps. It should help me move forward about how to live again.

My setbacks were caused by allowing my emotions get the better of me. In that state it seems I become a little selfish and I make mistakes. I'm learning to let that go, but the key to letting it go for me is to learn from the mistake. In the divorce remedy book she talks about Cheeseless tunnels. It really is a good metaphor. We will continue to go down the same tunnel doing the same things over and over again which don't work - trying harder each time instead of changing what isn't working. Keeping a journal I hope will help me stop doing that and improve. 

Plus in the journaling I'm going to set weekly goals - acheivable in a week. For example instead of saying I will run x miles each day and if don't do it feel bad. I'll say I will run three times next week. 

Sorry just rambling.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes we could call it the old farts fitness hour live on the web. Of course you know it would instantly be a you tube hit.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Just keep moving forward.. If you dwell on the past it will only make it worse. Nothing good comes from it. Learn from the mistakes and better yourself. Break the patterns that got you here.. Over time she will see it..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks LH, no drop and give me 20. Ha, ha.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

By the way K it is funny you said personal trainer. My w is a certified personal trainer. She doesn't do one on ones anymore but does teach two classes a week.

I just couldn't keep up with her and started not exercising. Oh well, that is changing now.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm so proud of you for journaling, FA!
It helps- which makes me ask myself, why am I no longer doing it?!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA think I only respond to carrots! Although you do have me a little scared...I actually did check out the website and considered doing some push ups for about a nano second last night.

Just on your wife being a personal trainer and you 'not keeping up' anymore - it is interesting - CW and I have talked about our guys both becoming obsessive on their bikes........I know it is just an analogy ....our city is full of bike paths and all I wanted was for our family to go riding together...but when we did I 'couldn't keep up' because I had the 15 year old 'normal' bike and everyone else in the family had the light fast bikes.....(that's my excuse anyway)....but it was a sign for me -

enough of me and my past.

LH I think the _ditched spouse webcam workout_ could be a youtube hit before XMAS.....it has the winning combo of pathos and humour good idea - however I couldn't help but notice that you've lef t yourself out of our merry troupe....you are going to have to do better - FA can you speak with him please?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Journaling is a good idea. I began journaling but haven't touched the book in a month. My actual journal (book) is a gift from my husband! I think I am sick (haha).

Yes..FA our H's became obsessed with biking. My H is a competitive biker and it was bad stress wise. This kind of biking offered no stress reduction at all. 

It's seems that your wife didn't increase her activity level during this time of crisis? 

I looked at the pushup and thought...wow! That looks like a good workout. I'm exhausted already.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Which crisi CW? My setback?

Come on now -- everybody drop and give me 30. I mean that -- can't you hear me people. That means you too LH, and K I know you're in the pool but come on.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Crisis? The marriage crisis. Remember that!

You give me 20!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm confused. You mean her exercise activity? What activity? I'm sorry I'm dense.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I can give you 20 just dont ask me to run 5 miles..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

This is getting confusing and I just wonder how many real push ups are being done as opposed to virtual ones. 
FA I think what CW was talking about was that we both noticed our H's getting more obsessive about being fit before they left for greener pastures....and so she was just asking about whether your wife did this as well. 
LH so glad to hear that you are not all talk and no action!

I have always wanted to be able to do pushups - what incentive can you guys offer me if I can do this?
I need something more than increased upper body strength - to lazy for this to capture my imagination....

I know I am being lazy even asking you guys this.....I blame the hot steamy weather here at the moment.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW and K, no she has always been into exercise - ever since we met. It would change from time to time regarding what she was doing, but always working out. It has always been her thing work out 4 - 6 days a week. That year was mountain biking. But she never really "trained" for it she just did it. It is like running - she runs races and now does run once a week but she always did tread mill as part of her work outs. So no that wasn't "new". She exercised before I meet her too.

I think she is afraid if she stops - weight gain. Which is probably true because for as healthy exercise wise - her eating habits aren't great.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I started the program FA! I did the squats, push-ups, and sit-ups yesterday, so I'm resting today. And man let me tell you I'm sore! I haven't worked out that hard on push-ups since the military! Oh my NCO's would be so proud of me! 

Thanks for bringing up this site.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No problem. I haven't started the push ups - pinched nerve but doing sit ups and going to start squats. I imagine your NCOs would be proud. Almost went into the military with Navy AOCS - would of trained at Pensacola with marine drill sergeants. But chose a different route.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

somehow knew Ash would be the one to do us proud on this score - FA does cheering from the sidelines get any brownie points?

Go ASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Go ASH! I'm cheering you on.

FA: Like K said was wondering about her activity. My H just trained more intense and competive. He wouldn't quit talking about his bike or bike ride or bike race. It was obsessive and frankly boring. I finally told him that if I heard about the bike more than once per hour...I would go crazy!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, she did get "into" the mountain biking thing and started doing duathalons. But not "training" for either. Like I said she was always working out 4 - 5 times a week ever since I've known her. That is her thing. Although I know now she has rollers that she trains from home - but not when we were together.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Doesn't sound like anything obsessive or new in her behavior. Just curious.

Any other changes since your separation? Isolating...etc.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Not really CW. You know what I've told you about me. Since we've separated -- nothing new that I know of. I'm sure she goes out more -- but who knows. I'm just sticking with NC and working on me. I'm beginning to realize I've lost respect for her for her actions.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The thing about NC it helps preserve your sanity!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

IT definitely helps that is for sure. I needed it.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

NC wil help detach. Nothing keeps the heart closer then seeing the constant pain of the other person. It's kind of funny how the circle needs to happen.. One can not move towards healing without detaching and letting all the pain go..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, I just worry that in detaching and letting go of the pain I let go of something else as well -- love. I'd like to have your optimism but I'm on a long journey with no known conclusion in my life.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Funny thing is deep down we are all humans.. That includes your wife..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I can only hope so LH. I know that I have to be empathetic to her hurt to help me. I'm learning. Getting rid of the cycles is becoming easier with journaling - or at least identifying them.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It used to have a real fear of detaching and not being able to "come back" if I needed or wanted. I will always love my husband-nothing will change that ever. 

However, it would be unhealthy if we kept loving our spouses without detaching, under these circumstances. This is what God has given us to protect ourselves. Take advantage of your detachment. I've attached myself to someone else-God.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Cycles happen cause we tend either to ignore or don't work on the issues. We all do it.. We get "lost" in the daily life and put other things in the fore front. The basics of a marriage seem to get ignored and taken for granted until it's in trouble.. We are humans.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks LH. I am human that is for sure - I make mistakes and will make mistakes. It is how you handle them that determines one's character. I didn't handle mine well - know I'm learning.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Loving Husband said:


> Cycles happen cause we tend either to ignore or don't work on the issues. We all do it.. We get "lost" in the daily life and put other things in the fore front. The basics of a marriage seem to get ignored and taken for granted until it's in trouble.. We are humans.


Hmmm, I don't think I need to find a counselor, I have you LH!! Nothing like a weekly trip to Jersey for my counseling sessions!!

Thats a good point, and I'm dealing with that right now. I know I have a lot to work on and these past few months I have placed those issues on the backburner thinking that I don't need to deal with them now bc I have no one currently in my life. Wrong! I'm not doing it for anyone else (except maybe my kids) I'm doing it for me!

FA, detaching doesn't mean you lose the love, like CW said, it just becomes love protected I guess you could say.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, you are right. But it is what I believe my w did - detach and put up a wall around her heart with regards to me. That is what is still there the wall, built on her lack of trust in me and her resentment.

Anyway, I've started the program on all fronts, push ups, crunches, and squats. Throw in some running as well. And my weekly soccer game on Sundays.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Good Job FA. I love Soccer. I played for 17 years and I miss it I should look into pick-up soccer games in my area. Or when my son is older I can be that crazy woman that yells from the sidelines!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash22 - don't be the crazy woman on the sidelines - be the coach. I never played until my son started (seemed like the best way to learn about the rules and the game) when his first coach invited us to their weekly game. Her son was on the team and has been on everyone of his teams to date. It was tough at first, but now it is great. But I've coached his teams the last couple of years. She still coaches but her daughters' team.

It is good people and fun. The kids play sometimes as well.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

ASH - how can someone who is 22 say I played soccer for 17 years????I know I know - you can can - it just sounds funny! 
FA I think you are just bragging telling us you have started on push-ups, squats, crunches, running and soccer coaching! Of course it means that you'll be able to eat more than us at Christmas time!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, drop and give me 20 push ups. No bragging just letting Ash know I started with all of it. I imagine my abs will hurt like heck tomorrow - ouch!. I'm just Getting A Life (GAL) again. Doing this for me. Before it was tough to have the time for me. Now I'm starting to live for me again. Kind of liberating.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

no pain no gain!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Ash22 said:


> Hmmm, I don't think I need to find a counselor, I have you LH!! Nothing like a weekly trip to Jersey for my counseling sessions!!
> .


LOL Ash.. I don't think I am cut out for it.. I am way to insensitive to be a counselor. I am a get real type and that doesn't work well in therapy.  My daughter doesn't figure out her homework and starts to cry I feel like a drill instructor. Tell her crying isn't going to get it done.. I guess I could have a better way of saying it. That's why my wife and I complete each other. She has that soft compassionate side I can NEVER have.. :lol:


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, maybe some therapists could use the straight up, get real philosophy more in their work. 


Ash, day 2 of week 1 completed. Today my abs are tight!!!! I went running last night as well and instead of running a distance I picked a hill and just ran up, then down, ran up, then down - killer on me. 

LH and Ash -- look out the snow is coming your way. Just a weather update from NC.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

K- I know me saying I played soccer for 17 years out of 22 makes me sound well up there in age (just kidding everyone, all of you are my age in my eyes!!)

FA-Good job I'm finishing up the first week and I have been reduced from running outside onto the treadmill...sad. And yes snow is being predicated for sat and poss sun? I don't know really LH might be more of the east coat weatherman than I.

LH- Honestly I think a reality dose is what I need weekly. If I don't get the cold hard truth about my situation I find myself daydreaming about things that never happened/never will happen or I start making excuses for my behavior and his. Sometimes the cold hard truth is what people need.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, we've had sleet here this morning already and just to the north of Charlotte it is snowing. So get ready here it comes. 

Question for all of you. As you might remember my w's b-day is monday. I just got a card - very vanilla - no romance or caring aspects outside of just a friend type card with a little thought in it. She loves cake and the card said Hey its your birthday and there's cake. Got to be happy there's cake.

Anyway, I've gotten something for x-mas for her from our son. Should I do anything? Card? Small gift? Let me know your thoughts.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

They saying 8-12 inches tomorrow. I have to work this weekend. Go me 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well ash I can tell you my personality either makes strong friends or enemies. Hehe. I agree that people need that sometimes. Problm is sometimes they don't and this is where I get in trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Do what you feel. My H bought me a nice journal for my birthday in October. It was a good thought and appropriate.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH and Ash are you guys snowed in? 

CW, I'm going to buy her a little something. Not for her or with any expectation in return, but because its the right thing for me. 

My w and H were heading up to WV yesterday. They only made it about 70 miles to the north and stopped because of the big storm. They got a hotel room and played in the snow. She actually sent me a picture of H in the snow on my phone. What is going on? Just co-parenting? I don't get that.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Its funny here. It was snowing bad this morning. But the stopped and started again. I might make my whole shift. I leave at 4. Tomorrow is a different story. Should be worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA they send the photos cause they miss sharing that.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Not snowed it...its like LH said it started then stopped but as I am typing this it is coming down again now, and pretty hard...good that you get off in a few minutes LH started to think that the weathermen were right...


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Man we got hammered.. I think we are close to 2 feet.. This is extremely rare.. I called out and will be digging out today. Glad I did some yesterday. Took 6-7 inches off..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well they turned around and came home. Where they got stuck had 14 inches of snow. Interesting LH. She called to check on the weather here. She called my cell twice and I didn't answer (i was in the bathroom) and then on the home phone. She was all upset I didn't answer. I made sure to listen and not try to fix or help - just listen. I was sorry it ruined her plans for christmas - didn't say it just felt it. She got a little snotty saying I'm not asking you to make a decision here -- don't know where that came from.

Later I said I'd love to have our son tonight (she offerred) and when she dropped off at my parents house - i didn't hear her and she thought I was avoiding her. Gets upset. I just didn't hear the doorbell. Goodness she is very sensistive and trying to "read" my mind. 

So I didn't do anything but be in the bathroom when she called (sorry I just don't take my cell with me) and then didn't hear the door at my parents when she dropped him off and she gets all mad. LH, I don't get it.

Glad you get a day off of work. I haven't had to shovel that much snow in a long time. When I was a kid growing up up north I used to go around shoveling people's driveways for $$$. Boy those were long days.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA she is obviously struggling none of this is easy. You sound like you are doing great.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

She is struggling as much as ever. Remember the OM has a family that occupies his time. Now, she can't see her family for the holidays. Sooo, this isn't great fun is it?

My H tries to get testy. I either ignore or ask him to repeat himself (that means you are behaving like a brat and I want YOU to hear yourself)! "What did you say?"


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

She is stressing. It's a way of venting out on you for what she is feeling. It could be her way of trying to trigger a reaction from you or to justify her stress towards you. I know I feel that from my wife.. It's not me but I am the brunt. it is hard I know. You feel helpless.. Hang in there these are tough times..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I guess she is stressing. Especially with her plans for the weekend being ruined by the storm. I feel for her on that, but I can't help that it snowed on her trip. I'm not here to fix things like before or be a part of those decisions. I'm glad I didn't react in anyway.

When I dropped of H yesterday after soccer - we actually had a nice sunny 49 degree day yesterday - she thanked me for the birthday card. It was nice to hear that, but didn't react except your welcome. Chatted about H and scheduling and that was it, Tried to be upbeat. Today is her b-day.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well NOTHING TODAY. Don't text her or call her. Just treat it like another day. Don't worry about why she is upset. Let her do that.. I know it's kind of cold but this is neeed.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Do you still think she's tied to the OM? I am wondering if that cooled down?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm not sure CW. I'm really not sure. But remember there are 2 possible OMs although she professes just friendship (to others that I know who've inquired of her) to both. But maybe there is a cooling off of that, especially now during the holidays.

I did get her a gift for Christmas - nothing fancy or "romantic" a work out top.

No LH I wasn't planning on calling her or texting her.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- I think you said that you have no proof. It is very possible that these OM are friends. My wife's friendship activity picked up when we went throughour issues but since we back it's non exsistant. It worked it's course. See my wife would use people for an open ear and after they stopped allowing her to wallow she would move on to the next.. I can't tell you how many guy friends she would talk to then they would fall off the earth. Just hang in there. Let her spin her wheels..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks LH. Your guidance and words help me.

Ash, if you are out there I did finish Week 1. On to Week 2. I wish they had a pull ups program as well. Need to add those and dips to the regimen.

Well we had a good day here yesterday - around 49 degrees and was fun at soccer. H had a good time playing with us and playing with his friends.

We are doing another football game Saturday. Should be fun. Just hope the weather will be good.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm very jealous of your weather FA!! Congrats on moving on. I start week 2 today as well.

Hey LH..you having fun shoveling??


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

OK guys need opinions as soon as possible on this. LH are you out there?

As you know my w's weekend holiday plans to go back to WV were scuttled due to the storm. She called a while back to see if we could "change" our plans so she could go up this weekend. A little back drop here is needed. When we agreed on me getting Thanksgiving I asked to get it first and I would be flexible with Christmas and according to agreement she would get Christmas Eve and Christmas morning. So I let her set the schedule this week - giving her this past weekend to travel. Of course she threw my statement of being flexible up in my face here. I said yes I did say that and that is why we agreed to the schedule you'd asked for. Of course to her that meant all last minute changes as well (always her way). 

Now I do feel for her, since this is H's family too. But I can't help the weather. She says she can't go new years weekend because can't get off work.

I'd like to work with her on this - but she was just yelling at me on the phone and I'm like calm down. I just wasn't going to make a snap decision on the phone.

Any and all thoughts welcome.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Can you switch to getting eve and morning? Then give her afternoon and weekend. You need time too. Her needs are not only at stake and she needs to understand that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes LH that is what I was thinking as well. That is her cycle when she deals with me she just gets overly aggressive (code for attacking and arguing). She did that in front of the counselor and the counselor said well that isn't going to work because you will only get two responses from ttrying to "talk" that way - yelling back or walking away. I'd walk away. She still doesn't get that. I just kept being calm etc., but I wasn't going to make a decision. I asked her to calm down, but that made her more irate. Then I just said I'm not making a decision right now, I'll call you later.

Wow her stress level is up. But you see why most times I just don't want to talk with her at all. THe cycle she gets into.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Again its the season and your marriage issues. I would suggest that and say next year you can have the morning cause if you got morning this year I would get pt next. If she gets upset at that then ask her what would be best for her knowing you need to see your kids too. Tell her she can't have her cake and eat it too. Don't tell just be Calm and firm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Already did it that way LH, except for the next year morning part. By the way - she apologized for yelling at me earlier. I thanked her for that then I listened, mirrored, and empathized with the situation and then just said I'd take Christmas eve and Christmas day until she left for her trip. She didn't want to do that because "I got Thanksgiving". To which I replied and next year you will get him for T-day. But I need to see him Christmas day as well. She's thinking about it. 

This is a frickin soap opera with her.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Its all about how you say it. You got her thinking. Now you might get Xmas morning cause she can't have it all. Remind her this is all part of divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I just wish I had been able to also say - and that is still one of your issues how you start a serious talk with me. Just like the counselor said, etc. etc. I'm sure she would have been furious if I did - next time I will.

Thanks LH.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's great that you remained calm with her madness.

She freaking out a bit as things/life aren't going her way.

Initially it's about escaping and having fun.

Now, life gets hairy and they have no where else to go.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

But I think she does have someone to "console" her. Maybe two. That is where it interferes with the natural process of realization. She is so focused on being mad at me about anything. It is kind of humorous.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

With anger must follow acceptance. Its a cycle she can not escape from. You are target now but that doesn't mean your the problem 


My wife is good at that telling at me about her issues with life. Just hang in there and stay calm its showing her change on your part since I get the feeling you would normally get loud with her. As for the OM. She will see their true side eventualy and most lilely will not out up with this yoyo behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No LH I wouldn't normally get loud with her I took option 2 - walkaway and avoid.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA you may have read that I have been through similiar stuff with my H over the last few days. My H is mr. smooth so no anger forthcoming - but I recognise his testiness through the NG stuff.

I am glad that I stood up to my H. I so wanted to give in - just for peace. I reminded him that kids don't like last minute changes and life is already weird and difficult enough. 

I know my H was just feeling sorry for himself. Thinking he deserves more. I reminded him that it was all his choice. He's sick of hearing that one!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I know K, I've been reading that. I too am glad that I didn't yell or walkaway and avoid. I removed myself from the situation and then addressed when she was calmer. The old me would have walked away and never talked about it.

I'm sure to whom she talks to that I'm being an unreasonable [email protected]#. If they know all the facts in context they would see another way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't see you as unreasonable and I am glad that you don't see yourself that way.

I'm so proud of your FA and using those new founds skills of yours. You are behaving different. That is not only hard work but very brave.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Ash22 said:


> I'm very jealous of your weather FA!! Congrats on moving on. I start week 2 today as well.
> 
> Hey LH..you having fun shoveling??


I uploaded some picks. It was a bear.. 75' of driveway and double wide.. I was so tired. I did it the night before and took off 6 inches. Had another 9-10 the next day.. Kids loved it though.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yeah, when we lived in the Burgh it was great fun. After a couple storms went through there was enough to build snow forts, etc. It was a blast. Thanks for posting pics.

CW, I'm learning every day. No I wasn't being unreasonable -- she was - trying to use my words against me etc. Again does she forget I'm trained that way? Wording was my job for years. No she even admitted on our second phone call - after she apologized. "its just the situation, the scheduling, the snow". Reality.

And yes I am proud that I did it right. Since I knew she was being unreasonable and yelling I did what was right defuse the situation and wait a while and then address it. I'm getting rid of my end of the cycle there. Before I would just walk away and be like your H - never talk about it again. Yeah for me -- progress.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah for you FA!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K. Well as an update - she isn't going back to WV this weekend I guess. I feel bad for her -- but she made her bed and now it is time to ly in it. 

I'm sure she will be consoled with a visit from the WV OM. But who knows.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA all your talk of push ups has inspired me (not to do push ups!) but I did get back to the gym today after a little break...I am going to work up to doing the push-ups as well....perhaps..you are sounding strong of mind and strong of body it is great to hear.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Im gaining weight. So you guys sliming down and I have gained 10 of the 20 lbs I lost. I blame that Monday Night football stuffing..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LH: It's also the holiday stuffing. Coworkers brining in the goodies plus parties=additional calories. I can't wait until my life and diet goes back to a seminormal state.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- That and getting old... My normal is chaos.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

old? come on LH - give me a break - you are such a baby!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm 40 now. I might look younger. :lol: But unfortunately my body doesn't feel it..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You know LH. I love my w and do want her back. Today I just feel that way. I guess that comes from my son telling me today that he just wants us to get back together. I don't know. It broke my heart to hear that. 

But I imainge that would take a miracle. I just have to keep breaking cycles for me. 

And yes K, keeping up with the physical stuff.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Merry Christmas FA!!!

Wishing you the best...I hope that what happens for you is the right thing and the one that is best for you and your son.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know you do FA. Me too! Well, I don't want your wife but I want my husband...haha.

It's amazing how this Christmas is changed for us. My D, on the way to church last night, cried. She said it was because of her "boring" vacation and dad wasn't home (Tues/Wed). He worked part time. She has always been used to have us around, even if she was busy with friends. I've worked for the most part this holiday season and my H has taken off pretty much or worked part time. 

She was really crying that we were going to church by ourselves on Christmas Eve and going home to open presents alone. A time where it is used to be ALL of us. Nothing is the same. I know this. She knows this. There is NOTHING for us to do. Her DAD is making these choices for us.

It broke our heart last night. Fortunately, our church service had some funny moments and made us laugh. We are lucky as it could have been a serious service. 

The kids saying they "want their family back" breaks our heart. 

It even hurt to hear your s say he wanted you two back together.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yesterday was a tough day. No little man yesterday or this morning. It was just a sad day for me. I never wanted this. I need to keep moving forward.

CW, sorry if my S's comments got to you as well. Tore me up.

How do you show someone that you put them ahead of yourself without being a doormat at the same time? I don't know. Anyway Merry Christmas.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My D just left with her Dad. Now I can cry.

What a horrible day. I have to concentrate on the reason for today. However, it's a time for families and a reminder of what's different.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Sorry guys last 2 days were constant running around. Hope everybody had a good x-mas day. At least a little peace. For the kids this is the hardest. Please let them feel loved.. 

My x-mas stunk for "us". My kids loved t.. They opened up their presents and my almost 2 year old wanted everything thomas out. So my wife starts doing that. As you can guess with a 2 year old no patience andanything Thomas he goes nuts. So my wife as you know has a problem with stress. As she was puttingsome of things togethr he wanted to play with them. Well as she struggled with it she started to blow.. It set mood rest of the day. She also basically threw my gift back at me saying she doesn't want it. Have no need for it and waste of money. This had to do with all the problems this morning. Now I go all out for them. It was a Movado watch with diamonds on he bad It was perfect for her but she didn't want me spending that much money on a few times she would wear it. So I am going to take it back and get something else.. Still because of how she reacted I was a bit distant. Went to inlaws and then back home. When we got home she said she hates when we get like that and all she wants is us back. I will move on just a little hurt.. I don't care f she didn't want it. It was how she had to beat it into me.. Oh well move on time.. 


I'll catch up in the next few days got some time..

PS: FA sorry about hijacking your thread. Didn't want to post this in mine.. As I really need to start a new thread..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey FA - just wanted to say Hi, please do keep moving forward - hope you're not feeling too sad today. 

LH sorry that you had so much tension - sometimes it seems it is just a day to get through. 

Sounds like everyone deserves a bit of kindness


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K. I went unplugged for a few days. Just spent as much time with H as possible while I had him. We had a great weekend together with family. He and his cousins had a great time. We did an X-mas football game Saturday. It had rained about 2 - 3 inches from Thursday night to Friday morning so it was a mud bowl. And it was fun. Lil man played - he was the only kid to want to play - and he had fun. Hung out a while after at a friends house then back to the homestead to continue playing with cousins.

Sunday was soccer and a gorgeous day. Took lil man and his cousin. She's only 5 and didn't want to play in the game. H did and had fun -- he scored a goal on a crossing pass from me. I hit his leg right in front of the goal and it went in. Priceless.

Played a bunch of Wii. Anyway, all in all for a sucky time we made the best of it.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA love hearing about these games activities - you guys are gonna have a lot of fun playing over the coming years......it's been raining here for a few days - so we've had cricket in the rain.............and lost of card games...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Fun games. It's funny how we can be enjoying these games but the underlying part of sadness is there.

Overall, it was an ok season. I was sad a bit but figured I made it through without a breakdown of epic proportions. 

Going unplugged is a great idea. Although, I am too insecure to release my internet friends with my pending divorce. Maybe later.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

We are not willing to be released either CW


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I won't unplug for a while again. Well LH so much for her being alone on X-mas, she had local OM with her Christmas morning (how the hell can he get out of the house) and I know yesterday and today out of town OM was here. She actually called in sick today at work to be with him. She wanted to go to WV early today instead of tomorrow. So too sick to work, but not to drive 5 hours. 

The real reason was he was here. She tried to make me feel bad that I said sorry today is my day with H. Oh toooooooooo frickin bad for her. I'm done with this crap. Her lies just keep building. LH, I'm done with her. As much as I want her back, she is just damaged goods.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Aren't we still in love with our OLD spouses? The ones that we though we new.

This is how I see it FA. I'm also done with my NEW spouse. The one that walked away and doesn't care about me anymore or care more about himself then sticking with his family. 

She is damaged. I can't believe she's seeing 2 guys still. You are right. How in the heck can he leave his family Christmas morning? Maybe his wife knows or doesn't care.

Hang in there FA.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA new year hopefully will bring us all a little closer to being free of these feelings that we have had for these people who seem to be so unworthy of our committment..........
Stick with your clarity and your integrity.....


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Thinking of you FA. I think you are a gem.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, well the old me of the last year and a half wasn't good either. At least I'm honest on that. I guess that is what gets to me the most. I realized I made a mistake. Here I was rationalizing that I was protecting her (a noble thing) when in reality I was protecting myself from losing her. Which I did in the end. I've come this far in realizing my fault and still working on correcting it. 

Now her faults contributed to my doing this. I also realize now that I was most likely depressed during that time from the stress and no letting her in. But isn't that when the other spouse should be there for you the most? In your bad time? Why do people forget about that part of the vow - they remember "in good times" but forget about "and in bad or tough times". Oh well, maybe I deserve someone better as I improve.

K, yes I can say that 2002 was my best year - got married and had H. And I can say that 2009 was my worst year -- and y'all know why.

Wren, I'm a gem in the rough. I'm not polished yet. Thank you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm proud of how far you've come FA. How you are willing to look at yourself and really work on things. It's difficult to recognize those flaws, some being a lifetime, and then changing.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I hear you FA. A run away spouse are all the same. They all try to hurt the other person. Te question is how much you want to deal with it. If you choose not to then thats your choice but I told you someday will be your day and that might be the time where you say sorry its too late... Hang in there I know its hard on the heart.

On my side I haven't been around much. wife is falling deep into depression si mad with herself she tells me she doesn't deserve me or her kids. I'll try and help you guys out but its getting tough on my front..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, what about emotional detachment? If she is totally gone in that regard what then? I realize that I have had a hard time controlling my emotions around her. I get too upset and let her "push" my buttons and that isn't good. That is one of my cycles that I need to break. Have you read any of BigBadWolf's posts? He makes it clear. What I was when I meet my w was a dominat man, what I became wasn't. In a nutshell, that is the root of our problem no matter what else is going on with her issues. 

Anyway, I just have to be cool, calm, confident and aloof around here no matter what.

I have given up hope -- I had opportunities to correct this and I missed them. I just need to move on -- totally one hundred percent. It will be easier.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It's something I never was able to master. If she sees the flip side of you it might make her think, but yes acting cool, calm, confident will. I think all women want different people depending on who they are. Some need to be more dominant because they want the "man" to help guide them through life. Make her choices do the work. Some womenwnt a submissive guy. It really depends on each women. There is no one size fits all. Plus that can change durin a relationship too.

My wife wants me to be very dominant. Make all the decisions. Help her go through life. Yet she would fight me like during our breakups were she was tired of me doing that. So I try to adjust to her doing more but that failed and now we are back to me making all the effort and her just exsisting. Problem is people change the dynamics of a relationship. Now I want more from my marriage so its either she makes the impovements or I pull back again and I will tell her this time she is chasing me away. I hope your 2010 is much better..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, by dominant it doesn't mean controlling - but in control of your own environment the cool, calm and confident person who remains that way when buttons are pushed. Always state in the cool, calm and confident way your position on things, etc. It isn't necessarily making decisions for her - actually for me that wouldn't work.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Overall, women like a dominant man but not overly so. They still want a say and equal treatment. However, they like a man that is able to make a decision but still remain flexible if needed.

It's hard to move on FA, as we both know. You are moving on as best as you can with the circumstances that stand before you and your son. 

LH: It's great that your wife has determined that running away won't help her. You will have your hands full as she is taking on 100% of the blame. I worry about your wife and her depression as I've been there. A depressive person merely exists. Some are better at covering their depression to the outside. Major depressive disorder is more difficult to hide and fake your smiles. I know I've said this but merely individual counseling might help her to accept her condition and act on her own behalf.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, yes depression is a bi#ch. I realize I was depressed the last year or so brought on by stress and unrealistic expectations on myself by me. Too bad I didn't realize it or have someone strong like you.

Where is that darn hot tub. I've been walking around looking for it for a week?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's strange FA, how you can be depressed and not know it until later. It's like you are going through the motions of life. How do you feel now?

Keeping walking FA, you are likely to find it. It only takes 20 minutes to heat up...give me a call when you're close! (like less than 500 miles--ha)


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, thanks for asking. I'm feeling better now and have been for a while. I just didn't really realize it was depression until I read a description of it --- wasn't deep but enough. Just regret about my actions or more importantly my in-actions towards my w. I'm not beating myself up, but taking responsibility for me -- part of being a man again. I was a man when I met her, but became something else -- something I thought was a good husband instead of being just me. Come to find out -- whether or not that is good or bad -- its honest and the best.

By the way -- its cold out here. I've been looking for that dang hot tub in my trunks now for a week. I'm turning blue --- geez.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

We all have regrets. I have regrets as well...it's a way we can learn from our mistakes.

You thought you were protecting your wife. She felt excluded. It was the best you could do at the time. You should be forgiven. You should, at least, forgive yourself.

You deserve it!

That is serious COLD FA!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, that was rationalization on my part. I was protecting her. In reality I was insecure of losing her. I tied my self worth to my success in my business - and assumed she would as well. Ergo, don't bring up the hard truth to her -- avoid and maybe it would go away. A great plan except for the economy. That led to me pressuring myself, resenting her for the things I did do for her, etc. That is emotional dishonesty. 

Yes I'm taking on that responsibility for the way things turned out. But if you take on the good, you must take on the failures. I'm not beating myself up about it -- just acknowledging it. That is being a man. A dominant man. I'm learning. I'm in control of my emotions now. While depressed I wasn't -- did everything wrong that I could do -- now I do it wrong sometimes but taking those baby steps every day. So I'm evolving.

Still blue. Goodness I need that hot tub now.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

FA- Dominant I mean by standing up for yourself. Having a direction for you and your family and making the moves or plans for it. Going to her and saying dear I think we should do this or lets go here on vacation. We need to tackle this project in our home next. I don't mean ordering her around. We are trying to sell my house now but my wife is draging her feet on cleaning it up. She is dying for me to step up and motivate her to do it. I just say hey I am working your not. You need to start doing this.. 

We all try not to "rock" the boat. That is fine but the problems are if you feel like your not getting 100% from your spouse and you hold back you are in fact "rocking" the boat just in a different way. As you are taking your frustrations out on her for not realizing she isn't there for you. I did that too. I would not talk to her and sit in the office. This is the area you need to show her the new you. A more confident man. Maybe she looks at you differently.. Just a thought. It will take time though..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I think we are on the same page LH with that. See I thought in today's world we try to be equals -- led to appeasement or supplication from me. Not good.

Yes I do need to work on showing her that side of me is getting back to where I was.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Not to get on the feminist movement..but I will. That is one of the negatives that came out of it, men didn't know their place. How to be a man and not step on toes and share a life with a woman! It was a difficult position for those that wanted to do the right thing. 

Equality was fine in the workplace, civil rights, etc. However, in the home it was a different matter. Equality is allowing diffferences, flexibility and choice in the marriage.

It all comes down to believing that each person is important and deserves a say. Including ourself.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I concur with your statements CW all the way. Again, where was that darn manual 7 years ago to explain this to me. At least I can explain this to H as he grows up.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

The manual for marriage is on the same bookshelf as the manual for parenting!


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

CW- I think those manuals were checked out the day my wife went for them.. Can you find out where they are and send them to NJ attention one loony wife?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm writing my own manuel for my son. He will be prepared. Before he can marry any girl he has a lot of books to read and a few nights of talking with me


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

FA! Don't let him marry until he's in his 30's!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Didn't work for me Wren - i was.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Guys it is just life - we can't control it


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

We can control our choices in it though..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Exactly LH. That is all each of controls -- ourselves.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Sometimes though we can't even control that too much 
I am great believer in being aware of our choices 
but I also belive that at times we are unaware of what we are doing...or why we are doing things - 
to paraphrase Kafka
"the last person to know oneself is oneself"


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH, things are getting clearer for me. I'm finally getting myself under control. And that is the first step. Owning myself. Becoming the assertive person I once was. But this time for the right reason -- me. I know sometimes I'm dense regarding emotional stuff and life - it takes time for me to understand it -- and to hear people say it in different ways. 

I have remorse for my actions. Not being in "control of myself" has probably caused more damage between me and my w than anything else in this process. Like my set back a while ago I told you about. Again, where is the manual when you need it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Clarity is great FA! Just make sure that remorse isn't sticking around, in the front, all of the time. Remorse is ok for awhile but you have more positive stuff to think about. You are moving forward afterall.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Well that will help you move on.. See her for who she really is. This way when you interact it will be under more control..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it has taken a while to really get to this point LH. That list from Divorce Busters is good. But you really have to implement it. Like you I did some of those things -- but now I don't. But sometimes you feel like you gave up trying when you follow it since it is your natural reaction.

I'm starting to think "What would John Wayne do"


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm just going about my life now. My w's actions do not show anything but that she is done with me. Of course that cold be because I haven't shown my changes all the time. I will treat her like I did before we started dating. I love her and want to be with her -- but I don't "need" her to be happy. She does not complete me -- she can only compliment me. I am indifferent to her. 

Although it still stings at times -- it is what it is.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I know it's hard to do cause we want to give ourselves to our mate but when they don't want it any more we need to do a 180.. It's not fair on our heart that what we need to do in order to make a relationship really great we need to stop on a dime when its not..


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It is hard LH, but that is what it takes. I'm on a path now. I started reading a book entitled Saddhartha by Herman Hesse. It is about his path/journey to enlightenment and happiness. This is what I need not her.

I live for me and my son.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey FA,

Hope things are going in a positive direction for you. If there are any new devolopments or changes let me know if I missed anything if you would like! How's your son hanging in there?

On another note I'm on to week 3 of the pushups/situps/squats program. And if didn't know they started a pullup program as well.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I was hoping there would be a pull up program. I think they should add a dips program as well. I got a little side tracked during the holidays but back on it. So I'm repeating week 2 now. I'll get the pull up program going as well.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well another day. Life moves forward and so should all of us. I'm getting stronger every day. I have a more positive outlook about my life. Things do get better a little everyday.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes they do FA. I still am not healed but as long as I feel better. Some days are better than others.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes they do. Now that I'm under more control of myself emotionally, things get better every day. Sure there are bad days, but such is life. My emotions were getting the better of me for a good while -- did more damage during that time than help - but again stuff happens and nobody is perfect.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, forgot to say i'm on to week 3 now. I'm thinking of doing a race in GA at the end of May called the Warrior Dash. A friend from soccer is trying to get a group to go. Its a 3.2 mile race with 11 obstacles -- jumping over fire, slogging through a mud pit, crawling through drain pipes. At the end its free beer and food and you get a warrior hat - which looks kind of like a viking hat.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I want pictures of you in THAT race! It sounds like alot of fun!!

I love that you are planning things. It's good to look foward to something. I miss that a bit.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

First CW we might be wearing kilts for the race. There is a prize for best group costume for the participants. And at the end there is no shower just a fire truck to hose you down.

Guys I need perspective on something tonight or tomorrow before 5 pm.

My w, is doing races as you know duathalons and mountain biking etc. Anyway she gave me a race schedule a while back and I said I would accomodate scheduling with H. Just switching the occasional Friday for Saturday etc. Over X-mas when she was talking to my SIL she mentioned the first one this Saturday which is not too far from where they live. Said she might want to stay there overnight -- last year as a family we went up and stayed the weekend during race time.

Anyway, tonight after H's swim practice she is like you are keeping Friday night right, i have that race Saturday. I'm like yes I told you I would and its on my schedule. I could bring him out early Saturday if you'd like and have him Saturday night. Now keep in mind the total drive for the race would be 5 hours each way. But H would have to be up real early Saturday to do that. Then she was like well I was thinking, we could all go up together and I'll drop you off at your brothers and H could play there. 

In my mind I"m thinking, huh? Then she was like it was just a thought. We can talk about tomorrow night.

So what is your opinion about that? I discussed with my brother and at first he was perplexed, then he was like it is only that she talked about staying over there and hasn't contacted them about it and now it seems to be the way to keep a connection with my SIL as a part of the "family" and to not have to deal with my brother.

I hadn't thought about it that way. So opinions please.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You heard my perspective FA...go for it. Take a risk. No regrets...


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Sorry Fa 
I am a bit confused - 
are you asking should you drive up with her?
as a family?
K


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes K it was her suggestion. Just found so out of the blue.


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## MARK23 (Jan 8, 2010)

I just want to learn from you I am going through crises and feeling lonely stress sleepless nights etc...my wife didn’t want to go counselling at the start then she agreed to go at the first session she said to the counsellor that she made up her mind leaving at the end of the session she said show me your actions first but don’t have expectations I the counsellor asked her if she can go out with me once a week she said I can’t at the moment she said there is a brick wall of anger in her head she can’t make a decision confused what to do she said I don’t want to give u false hope but she is willing to keep doing counselling with me I am doing counselling alone as well and visiting psychologist I don’t know what to do. You went through all of this what should I expect from counselling with her do u think there is still hope that she will change her mind?
Is it positive that she is willing to keep doing counselling? 
Thank you very much


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey FA

Congrats on starting week 3!! I keep stariting off really well but then I get busy so I miss a day and then I get all pissed at my self, so right now I will be starting week 2 for the third time!

About driving up with her...I think you should, why not? You could have been just giving a friendly offer, nothing more or it could be a move on her part. My best advice? Just keep your cool on the trip don't bring anything up unless she does.

Good luck FA and by the way I'm also looking into marathons up here in PA, I think it would be very exhilirating to complete one.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, there is a warrior dash up in Maryland some time this year. Check out the website just plug in warrior dash in google it will bring it up.

Mark23,

Are you in the same house still? What are her issues with you. First stop all relationship talk with her. Don't bring it up. Something of late that has really resonated with me is found on the Dominant Man thread. You need to become more of a dominant man during this situation.

But most importantly you need to look yourself in the mirror and determine who you are, what you want to be, set a plan of action and start doing it. The sooner you can do that the better your life will be. Remember your happiness in life comes from within not from her. I know it is hard to see that right now but it is true. When you make it about her you are becoming dependent on her and not yourself. 

Keep doing your counseling. Overall I believe it is good if she continues to do counseling with you. But it does take two to work things out. But first you need to remove yourself and start living -- only way for the wall of resentment to start to come down. Again go to the Dominant Man thread. I wish it was here when my situation started -- I'm not sure I would have understood it then but at least it would have helped.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, nothing happened. Dropped off H tonight and no questions or conversations. Of course she was still teaching her class at the time. This morning she called -- rang once and I hadn't answered. 20 minutes later I called back said saw you called, what is up?

So, worry and thought about nothing.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Perhaps it was impulsive after all FA 
they can get us thinking can't they? 
at least you'll be prepared if she springs it on you again....

I was talking to my counsellor today and she said that she talks to so many people on their 2nd or 3rd marriages who say that they now wished that they had stuck with their first....
Wish our spouses would get this - 
sometimes I just get annoyed at their stupidity....
sorry FA wasn't directed at your W!

how's your arm?


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## MARK23 (Jan 8, 2010)

feelingalone thank you. 
i moved out of the house then she moved back to the house. i am not talking about the realationship problem with her only at the counselling (that is what she wanted) 
I can’t find the thread “the dominant man” can you please write the link so i can read it?
thank you very much.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, or she is waiting for me to lead. As CW said, she took the first step, she might not again. She threw it out there to see -- possibly -- i hadn't thought of it that way.

Mark, look under Big Bad Wolf's posts -- any of his but he posts on that thread.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Possible - she could be waiting for you 
very possible


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I didn't wait. So I took the advice of good friend CW and called her this morning about this weekend. I acknowledged it was a good idea (wanted to let her know it did take courage to do it - no matter her motivation) to go up. But logistically it would be tough on H. The race starts at 11 am but check closes by 10. It is at least a four drive, not including dropping H and I off at my brothers, so would have to have left at 5 am. A little early for H. 

We talked about confusing H as well a little. So she was like, but there is another race in March that is close to my brothers - like 15 minutes away. We could do it then.

So thanks CW. I believe you were right. Again no matter her motivation. And I do believe if I had let it pass, no suggestions from her would have been forthcoming again. Thanks friend on your clarity. And K, I'm not forgetting your help at all. It was invaluable as well.

So that's my story -- it was a test. A test to see if I would lead. Don't know if I passed with shining colors, but I didn't fail either. I have no expectations based on this. It is just what it is - a step in some direction - what direction -- who knows.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It's wonderful that your conversation was open and honest...that is what I noticed when you posted. You grabbed the bull by the horns and showed confidence to boot!!

Now you have talked about future plans. I like the way you think....no more guessing her motivation. Just let it be. 

Don't even think of it as a test. Think of it as moving foward..at least you are doing something.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I so agree CW 
open honest chat


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW and K. It felt good for a change. Another baby step moving forward for me. Now I just keep building on that. Getting back to where I used to be but better.

I found this poem and I like it:

The Guy In The Glass 
by Dale Wimbrow


When you get what you want in your struggle for pelf,
And the world makes you King for a day,
Then go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what that guy has to say.

For it isn't your Father, or Mother, or Wife,
Who judgement upon you must pass.
The feller whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the guy staring back from the glass.

He's the feller to please, never mind all the rest,
For he's with you clear up to the end,
And you've passed your most dangerous, difficult test
If the guy in the glass is your friend.

You may be like Jack Horner and "chisel" a plum,
And think you're a wonderful guy,
But the man in the glass says you're only a bum
If you can't look him straight in the eye.

You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But your final reward will be heartaches and tears
If you've cheated the guy in the glass.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

so true


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well another good day of soccer. Nice and warm here compared to the last few weeks -- today was 62 so nice. It was muddy as all get out, but that only makes it more fun. I had mud in my hair and forehead from heading balls. So much fun.

Ash, I'm done with Week 3 on to Week 4 on push ups, crunches and squats. I'm doing this.

CW and K, thanks again for your time, and insights. Although we didn't end up going "together" I pushed forward. Funny though when she called me yesterday after the race to let me know she was on the road -- it was just a talk after a race like it would have been before. I just tried to listen, empathize (she wrecked during the road bike portion) and congratulated her on 3rd place even though she crashed.

I actually set up a sleepover for H last night (her night) and she just kept thanking me for that. I had to drop a couple things off for H today after I finished up soccer and I was ready to bolt and she started talking about some things. Where H will go to school next year (we had a reassignment etc.) and some other things. Seemed like she kept coming up with stuff to talk about (although all practical things we needed to talk about) and then I was like "well gotta go". 

I'm doing better each and every day.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Go FA
I am proud of you


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks K, 

It is what it is. You know she actually asked me if I had fun at soccer. I was like always - wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun and a good time.

Maybe she is thawing. She hasn't moved forward on the seperation agreement -- she mentioned that she hadn't really looked at it. I was like - I'm almost done with my comments. I think that surprised her. She was moaning and groaning about some things -- playing the victim a little. I just listened and empathized. Its not my place to do anything else. And I ended the conversation.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: All we can do is our best. You are doing what you feel is right. I'm glad that you are both beginning to thaw. 

There is much mind reading and body language at this point. It drives me crazy! So much energy wasted on reading minds...why not just say what you mean. That what I like from my friends and family. 

She is thawing and wanting more from you. Keep on moving FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, maybe she is thawing maybe not, I can only move forward. I've been a little melancholy the last few days. I've started writing some things down for H about life. I wrote him a letter about this time in our lives and what it means to me and what he should learn about it. I want him to understand one day what it all means.

This wasn't about her at all, but about being a man and what that means.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know what you mean regarding melancholy...

That's a great idea to write a letter to H. Brilliant!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

FA, I have to say you are beating me on the pu,su, and squats. I need to get more focused ( a little hard right now with a son who just discovered he can climb stairs).

A letter. That is a good idea. I had been thinking of how one day I will explain to my children everything that has happened. And sometimes my words when spoken come out all jumbled. Writing I can handle. I just want to make sure my children know that I did try.

Excellent idea, I'm sure it will be very beneficial later in your relationship with your son.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well Ash I don't have quite as much on my plate as you do right now so I can be more focused. It is getting tougher -- the reps are ramping up. 

I also wanted to write it now so my thoughts aren't colored by time. And in it i describe generally my failures in the marriage -- what I should have done as a man and the importance of certain things. I also apologize to him -- for he won't have both parents with him living under the same roof. That is what has made me melancholy the last few days. Unlike CW, K and yourself Ash -- I was given reasons -- although they were the effects and not the cause -- it is irrelevant. I allowed myself to fall into a depression in which I became a ghost to my wife. I accept my responsibility now as a man should, admit my mistakes, learn from my mistakes and become stronger. That is what I want him to learn. There is no blaming -- it just is.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

LH are you out there? Haven't seen or heard you in a while and want to make sure you are ok.

Well, another interesting thing. My w has been renting a condo for a while and with some school reassignment issues that came up wants to move again. The school reassignment change boundaries for my son's school, but the choices of the three schools he could go to depending on residence are all good. There really is no strike against any of them.

So here is my question. My w wants me to take a look at a place she is considering. Why, given her position on our relationship does she care what my opinion is? Yes my son will live there, but I do trust her judgement -- always have. The school issue to me is a non-issue since all are good schools. So why on earth does she want my opinion? I'm just a co-parent -- not her h anymore in her heart. So what gives?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are reading into her behavior!

He's your son and she wants HELP in making a decision. Give it to her. 

She doesn't know you trust her judgement anymore. In fact, she is pretty much unsure about most things. Take my word for it! 

Sorry to be blunt FA. You know you are my favorite!!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Go ahead FA - give your advice - I think you know why this is happening...


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

Isn't interesting how these people that want to live separately from us seek us out for advice and to check in?!

Go ahead FA, give her your advice!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, no I don't know why.

CW, K and W -- I did drive by it and gave my opinion on the place before I posted yesterday. I am just confused by this.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

"I am confused by this."

Welcome to my world. They don't make any sense sometimes FA. I mean, if I could count the number of times that my H said something and gave me mixed signals....


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I meant that you have been taking the lead and I think she is responding -


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yesterday when she dropped H off she looked really good. So I said "you look good" not in a pursuing way, just a flirty kind of thing. Anyway, I just keep moving along.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, finished up week 4 on to week 5 of the program. Where are you at on it? I just keep leading and becoming more of the man I could have been and will be in the future.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I am so proud of you FA...such an excellent place that you are heading. It's good to hear your confidence!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I'm just moving along. Last night was H's swim practice. She drops him off (and teaches an evening class there while his practice is going). H knows I'm doing the program of push ups, crunches, squats, etc. So he must have told her because when she dropped him off she mentioned that I he said that I was going to do 20 squats (actually 200) and I'm like no 200 and he went oh yeah. Anyway, she was like yeah and he told me that maybe I'd like dad more after he could do that. She is smiling as she says this. WTF. I just laughed it off. 

I just don't get it.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I believe that you are at the cusp of a breakthrough. It's sort of like building a bridge. It's a conversation; a smile; flirtation; an offer of help. 

Just don't think that you need to totally focus on her though. Keep your work on yourself in flow. Have your fun. 

H is so cute with that comment about "liking Dad more." Bless his heart.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I'm not sure of a breakthrough -- don't expect one. I just don't get the little comments like that. Why do you say a breakthrough?

It is funny you said that about H's comment. She said the same thing -- it was so cute the way he said it.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Sad to say FA I still am stuck in week 2!!

We had a nice few days up here, nice as far as East Coast Winters go so I have been getting outside to run.

I'm a runner and it felt good to be outside instead of being stuck on that horrible device called a treadmill!!

It's back to being cold again so back to the treadmill and I really need to focus on the P/u program. When I was in the army I was up to doing 74 pushups in two minutes...can't do that right now!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, just keep at it. For me it is getting into the routine of working out three times a week. Plus soccer. I did day 2 of week 5 last night and i'm sore as all get out. I've added doing pull ups although they still haven't put the program up. The number of reps heads up fast in week 5. I admit on the last set of push ups (now 8 sets) i had to finish the last 10 reps on my knees. So at the end of 6 weeks I might not be able to do 100, but I'll just go back to week 3 of the next level up and keep going.

We've had some nice weather here - yesterday 64 -- but tonight snow/sleet/ice mix and cold for the weekend.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I said breakthrough because I sense your relationship changing. Look back a few months ago-would you be having this conversation along with a smile? Would you have been discussing a trip out of town (like you did a few weeks back)?

Maybe the change will be a more open friendly separation...who knows. It's a change.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, I see your point. I just remember her smiling real big after I talked with OM1 -- yeah that changed then too.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

So im the new guy around here. FA, I feel like I am walking in your shoes about 4 months ago, there are so many similarities in our stories. Nice Guys!!! ha!! who would have thought that this would be our demise? I am to the point right now that I know what has to be done, but I cant quite get there untill my mind is at ease that I have done EVERYTHING possible. (I know, I know, this NG thing has me trapped). I cant wait till the book gets here cause one of the things I cant picture is me NOT being a NG. Cant help but think I would literally be forcing myself to do things that I wouldnt want to do, just to not be....... a NG????? Anyway, I wont take up your space on me, so I have to say that I am a little curious about where you are heading, or where you think you are heading. When you started this thread you seemed so convicted and so sure of where your life was going, but your recent posts seem to contain a little more confusion, a little more doubt? maybe I am reading to much into it, and I wouldnt blame you a bit for second guessing your decision, but if we share so many similarities, I cant help but wonder in 4 months time what things could be like if I go ahead with this. I realize that this is truly something I have to do on my own, but I cant help thinking that I could regret this for the rest of my life, and if I dont analize every single detail, no matter how minute, I might not be able to live with myself. Do you still find yourself trying to convince yourself at times that this was the right decision, or when you reached that point on 10/19 was that the final turn? Sorry for the intrusion, I probably should have started my own thread on this, but you guys have spoken to me like no other board on here, and I would greatly appreciate any feedback. 

BTW, I cant tell you how much I admire the sense of family you have expressed through this thread. Reading through page by page and seeing how you can laugh, cry and learn together, although literally separated by oceans, has been truly inspirational to me. Thank you.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hynd: FA has come along way...it's amazing in 4 months how much your change. However, there are moments that come along that you seem that you are in the same place as before...but you are not. Those moments often get shorter and farther between. 

NG is an interesting topic...my H is an NG also!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

hynd,

Read threads by BigBadWolf, MEM----, and Deejo. But especially BBW. They talk about the dominant man. Which is opposite of the NG. Start there. Realize your happiness is within you and only there. Your spouse can't make you happy only compliment it. I don't care if you post on my thread at all --- my thread is to help me and any others. So feel free to overtake it with your story.

Once you realize you can be happy without her, you start to think about things. Deejo had a recent post where his W wants to reconcile and he was like well here is what I need and she said that is so much. He said yes it is. She said I don't think I can. He said -- well have a good life. But that is after a lot of introspection, and work on himself understanding what makes him happy and what his needs are --- he re-created himself. That is where I am at -- re-creating myself. Not what I was before I met my w -- but even better than before. Understanding my meaning of life -- what I want.

And listen to CW. She is one of a kind in a lot of ways. Heck she wears heels. That is a bump out to you CW. Seriously she is and has been a guide to me as well. And Knortoh. I now count them among my friends --- real friends. They know me more than a lot of people that i know in the real world. Not just virtual world. 

So ask questions on my thread, send pms or whatever you need. We are here to help.

Yes I think about things with my w working out -- but know that while possible -- it would take a long time. And in the mean time -- I've got to live regardless. So welcome friend. May we help you if we can.

Peace.


Ash, finished up week 5 tonight.

And for those in NC -- heck of a winter storm for here. We had about 4 inches of snow and sleet and freezing rain on top of that. Got out my old Flexible Flyer from my younger days and H and I had a great time sledding. Will get in another morning of sledding tomorrow -- unusual to get 2 days in a row here -- usually melts by noon the second day.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Once you realize you can be happy without her, you start to think about things. Deejo had a recent post where his W wants to reconcile and he was like well here is what I need and she said that is so much. He said yes it is. She said I don't think I can. He said -- well have a good life. But that is after a lot of introspection, and work on himself understanding what makes him happy and what his needs are --- he re-created himself. That is where I am at -- re-creating myself. Not what I was before I met my w -- but even better than before. Understanding my meaning of life -- what I want.

This is what I NEED to profit from my current situation. You are all making that very clear to me, and at this point I have no reason to look back. BUT, when she stands there with tears in her eyes, (pregnant with his child no less), and has the NERVE to say "I cant live without you", I see everything that we (I) have worked so hard to create, including our 3 beautifull, innocent children....and I break. There is nothing more than a miserable compromise at this point....... 

Again, you guys are awesome. I cant tell you how good it feels to be miserable with such good people! this site has become my "therapy".


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hyndsight1,

She says she can't live without you? Well, what do you want -- but remember you need to know what makes you happy and then create boundaries for you -- to be firm and gentle with her. Cool, confident, and aloof with her.

Tell us more of your situation.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes..everyone I do wear heels sometimes! HA 

That doesn't mean my head is in the clouds...

OK. Hynd...keep reaching out on this board. FA is an invaluable perspective. I suppose we all know how it is to love and lose the person that you care about most. However, there does need to be some conditions upon their return back into the marriage.

Figure out what you want and gently give her the boundaries. Either she wants in or not. You will figure it out soon enough.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

FA: The problem I have right now is setting the boundries, not (so much) enforcing them.
Putting aside everything that brought us here, 8 days ago she put her head down and walked out the door. At this point she had already had 3 "last chances" to reconcile and she knew she was defeated. 
We set a temporary arrangement for her to stay with her parents about 5 miles away; she would come home at 6am so I could go to work and she would get the kids off to school, and when I got home at 5, she would go back to her parents. Maybe not ideal, but the least impact to kids. The emotions between us twice a day are obviously excruciating, but I am learning to work through them. Friday I cooked the family a nice meal, we played games with the kids, and she spent the night on the couch, Saturday I worked. 
Today; Sunday morning routine (family day), big breakfast , games w/kids etc.....rough. W shows up around 3, seems "happy". First checks my e-mail? not that I ever did or do care, but ? then sits down real close to me and starts asking (real cute)if we have any hope. Even (no kidding) "I wouldnt mind just living in the basement?" I say point blank: What we had is GONE. We are now 2 VERY different people than we were. IF there is chance for an us it will be a matter of years, not days or even weeks. This seems a bit offensive to her (cute gone), "well, Im gonna have to do something different about our arangement I guess". Duh. I then try to explain to her how very different our situations are right now,(why I feel the need to explain, I dont know), and how even though we have made all our decisions together in the past, we HAVE to break with instinct here and figure some things out on our own. I do love/care for her, pity her, but her thoughts right now revolve around whether she should terminate her pregnancy or not, which is very difficult for me to even come to terms with, let alone give her advice on. I did make it very clear to her today that: I could not raise this child. She has to make the decision on the assumption that "we" are over, (dont get an abortion thinking that hope will rise when this becomes a non-issue). I will respect and support her decision either way. 
The plan was that she would pick the kids up and take them to a birthday party before bringing them back to her parents and spending the night. Instead she just moped around the house for the next couple of hours, making stabs at being "cuddly" a couple of times. This is real tough cause we have always been very cuddly people with each other and obviously both miss the affection. Then she (painfully slowly) packs up and leaves. At this point I know I will miss the kids ALOT, (1st night alone), but I just want her GONE. 
Her situation is desparate right now, and why she couldnt begin to predict it a long time ago is beyond me. Right now she has basically 3 scenarios:
1. Find job, appartment, etc.,and try to mother 4 kids on her own. (not happening)
2. Reconect with OM and move in with him, (I think she has finally realized where this will end up)^
3. have abortion and..........you know the rest (how does she sleep at night?)
So I know what she is up to, but it is so hard to draw the line. I realy do feel sorry for her. Picture the most adorable little puppy ravaged with rabies clawing at your front door.........
I honestly do not know what will make me happy at this point. Some days the memories of what we once had, the comfort she can bring me, are so strong, that I can almost get caught up in her game; I feel like I have to force myself to despise her for the pain she has caused. More days now I feel like I can be happy without her, (but cant help feeling a little selfish).
So where do I set the boundries? the day to day contact gives her a window in which to weave her web. For now I guess I just dig my heels in and keep reminding her of the facts. Do I tell her there is NO hope? I dont even know if I want to burn that bridge yet, but maybe this is what it will take for her to pull herself together and start looking at this more realistically.............


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hey CW! didnt see you sneak in above me there while I was writing(hunt & peck over here). I guess I should clarify something: the ship of "gentle boundries" sailed during our brief reconciliation period. The few very reasnoble requests that I made at that time were ignored. Completely. Over, and over, again. At this point I will not sugar coat it, her list is just as long as Deejo's was. Do I give her the list? I canot believe she wants this bad enough to follow through, and I DO believe in giving people the benefit of doubt.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Please do not read too much into her behavior. My take is that she is more relaxed and not as afraid of giving you false hope. She has told you how she feels and she thinks you understand, so she is being friendly and amicable. These are not mixed signals of returning love. I continue to treat my ex in a friendly manner--always have. He eventually understood that I did not hate him and was not sending mixed signals at all--I'm just trying to be a decent human being. He became so angry once he finally accepted it--that's how I knew he finally "got it." I was very clear in my statements that our marriage was over. We were co-parenting (still are), so he is entitled to a 'say' in all important decisions. I made a point of being fair. 

Not sure if this helps or not, but I'd hate to see you crushed by false hopes, FA. Stop looking for signals--do what you need to do for yourself. IF--and that's a very big, unlikely IF, she changes her mind, she'll tell you. Good luck either way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hynd: Is the baby yours?


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Im fixed


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

I'm in that club as well.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

sadly enough, this may have been one of our biggest misunderstandings. She started showing resentment towards me for having it done soon after. I know she didnt run out and get pregnant to spite me, but she is a GREAT mother, and even though im sure she didnt want any more children, I think the idea that I had taken that choice away really bothered her...............


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Did you discuss the choice Hynd? Or did you decied?


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

we discussed in the months/years before out daughter was born, and it was very mutual, but D was about a year old when I did it, already through the "baby stages", and I think she realized how much she might miss that. Its funny, if you where to ask here if she wanted more kids the answer would be NO, threes enough, but when I asked her if this contributed to the affair, she shruggs her shoulders???????


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

hynd: Indeed this is difficult. I'm sure many things contribute to an affair. But the decision was ultimately hers and in the end..the wrong one.

How hurtful. This would be a tough pill to swallow.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

I would stop asking her what caused the affair? Somewhere you both did -- it does take two to tango. Something was lost between you and unfortunately she crossed a line. 

All you can do now is work on yourself and be a great dad to your kids. 


Sisters359,

I know its a big IF. I guess I am looking for signals -- or just trying to understand confusing things. As you said all I can do is work on me -- and I'm doing that. Sometimes it seems slow going on that, but upon reflection I have come a long way. Just feel like a long way to go to get to where someone like Deejo is in life. But I'll get there. I have to -- for me.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

CW, Appreciate the "reassurance". Ive read so many stories that leave me feeling guilty about the way I do.....

FA, At the risk of sounding cynical, I believe there is no such thing as "the perfect marriage". Being human is a compromise, as is marriage. No, I dont ask her why our marriage failed anymore, I ask myself.

On that note, the time for me has "come to be gone". FA: I know you were being sincere when you said I could "overtake" your thread, but I realize the importance of keeping these discussions (somewhat) on topic, so I will segue over to my new place. I do humbly request everyones support as I make my way, your counsel is invaluable to my future.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

I don't find your statement of "there is no such thing as 'the perfect marriage' " at all cynical. It is true. As you said we are all human -- bound to make mistakes so perfect is impossible to attain.

I think it is how each of us deals with our mistakes that makes a great marriage.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Two imperfect human being vow to remain committed for the remainder of our lives.

It's a tough pill to swallow and many of us were willing to do the "committed" part ,but sometimes the other person bails.

Not much we can do. This is all that I've figured out.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No, not much we can do about our relationships -- only ourselves. Life is certainly like a box of chocolates -- you just never know what you are going to get.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

how fitting, guess Ive heard that quote a million times, just not in this light!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes isn't it funny how you can find meaning even in a movie quote. But Forrest's mother was right and good at explainin things to me so i could understand them.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

That's a great movie!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It is a great movie. I always enjoy watching it. 

Well its another rainy day here in NC -- at least no ice or sleet. I'm getting tired of grey skies. I need the sun.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

We had sun at my place! Or, at least we did today...it's night now.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Quit rubbing it in CW. Hey everyone just wanted to share something with you. My lil guy got named a co-captain of his winter swim team by the coaches. He's on could nine. Of course he had no idea what it meant -- but when I'm told him his idol from the team last year was captain he about died.

Anyway -- just sooooooo proud of him. Don't know why the coaches chose him but they did -- even had his swim t-shirt embroidered with Co-captain.

I'm just a gloating father.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yea FA! Don't you love it when your kids are excited about their accomplishments? It makes you feel warm inside.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

that's wonderful news


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW and K. Well busy day yesterday. Took H to the kids work shop at Home Depot, then to a hobby shop to check some things out for him. Of course he saw the model rockets and was like "I want one". 

Then on to his first swim meet. He swam 5 events -- 3 individual and although only 7 they put him on two 9 - 10 year old relay teams. No he isn't that good -- our team is short on 9 and 10 year olds. But he got two firsts, a second and two thirds. I was a timer and he was in my lane for 4 of the events.

It was great. I even managed to come across cool, confident and aloof with the w. We talked some -- i even joked around. Something seems different with her -- i don't know what -- just get the feeling different. Like reality is getting to her. 

I'm just working on me. Hey and yeah nice enough to play soccer today. So I'm looking forward to that. Oh and Ash -- finished up week 6.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'd say that was overall a VERY successful and fun day! 

H sounds like he may be a competitor as he didn't let those big 10 year olds intimidate him!!

FA..I think your w is getting a reality check after all of these months separated. I know my ex is coming across that way. In any event, we can't analyze them as it may be for a variety of reasons.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

FA I enjoy reading about your days with H.
It is lovely to have some insight into your world.
So glad you are coming across as 'aloof' way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Your done with the program? Congrats FA I have been focusing on my running but come tomorrow I am going to start it up again and I will keep you posted b/c I am determined to follow through this time.

Love hearing the things you are doing with your son. You are a wonderful father. If I lived closer to you I would ask you to watch my kids!! (just kidding)

Keep it up FA!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I made it throught the six weeks but I can't do 100 push ups yet. So I will be going back to week 3 and up a level. I'm not stopping until I can do it. Doing crunches is killing my abs -- I haven't tried yet but I think I can do about 200 consecutive now.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

And yeah I did get to play soccer yesterday -- a little chilly, a bit muddy - but overall a good time.

Here's my question for today. Yes we all know what Sunday is V - day. So H and I got a V-day card for her from him. Probably get a small gift as well. What should I do, if anything?


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

I am getting the kids V day cards and nothing for the W. Just my situation.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

I have searched all kinds of marriage sites for someone with my situation and you are it. My wife is in love with another man. Her complaint with me is I am a doormat. All our friends are shocked that she could be doing this to me since I am such a NG. I cook, clean, try to make her life as easy as possible. I am even letting her stay in our house until August when she says she is leaving. She needs a bad boy and I am not him. I have felt the exact emotions that you have described. And to make it even scarier, I too live in NC. I guess I am just a few months behind you though since I am just finding things out.

Good luck to you. I am trying to figure a way to move on but probably not going to happen as long as she is around.

And about V day. She is spending it with her new boyfriend. How is that for a kick in the gut.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I think a card would be appropriate.....

Something not mushy or lovey or whatever word that ends in "y!"


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley,

I don't know if my w loves, loved or what with the OMs -- she still maintains just friends (or at least she did). I don't care anymore. I think moving on for each person is different. If I were you and knowing what I know now -- I would kick your w out of the house. She wants the OM --- then go. Plain and simple. And you can't worry about her "getting mad" at you. So what if she does -- life will go on.

You have to realize that she can't make you happy - only you can. Do things for yourself. Do you have kids? If so, just have as much fun with them when you are around them. I would suggest reading posts by BigBadWolf, MEM and Atholk and Deejo. 

You need to get back to being a "man". Sure you will have tough spots -- we all do -- but just take it one step at a time. Look inward and rediscover who you are and what you want to do. 

I'm in the Charlotte area, you?


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

I know what you are saying. It's just a hard thing right now. She is not hiding her relationship with this OM now. I know where she is but still am happy to see her pull in the driveway when she gets back.

I have read most of the other posts. I know what I really need to do. Origianally she asked me for two years, not August. She is in school, has no job, no health insurance, no nothing. I flipped. August was thrown out because that is when our 18 yo son will go off to college. Neither of us wanted to freak him out this close to the end of his high school career. 

I am just absolutely amazed at how many people are going through this same crisis. I have always been one to give unconditional love and from I have read you appear to be similar. But I guess enough is enough. 

Please do know that I get some solace from reading the posts on this site. Not that I take pleasure in other's problems but knowing I am not alone helps. So keep up the posts and I will keep up the prayers.

I'm in Durham and I did not mean to highjack your thread. Did you ever decide what you are doing for Valentines day?

PS. the 18 yo son is a swimmer too.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley,

Don't worry about hijacking my thread -- I don't care. No I haven't decided if I will do anything or nothing at all. 

I wasn't giving my wife unconditional love -- I gave her emotional dishonesty for a while as I've discovered. Now I'm just moving forward and becoming a man again. 

My brother lives in Raleighwood -- yes he works in RTP


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

I was in RTP until a couple years ago and they moved me to Cary. 

I do hope things work out for you. I know I am a wreck and seeing others handle it with such grace helps a ton. I won't say that I was emotionally dishonest as you say, I pretty much know that my W has always known where I stand emotionally, physically, etc. She just doesn't care.

She says that I am and always will be a good friend? She says she can't imagine life without me around. Just loves someone else more and wants to be with them. Not sure if she is trying to make me feel better, really means it, or hedging her bets in case mr wonderful turns into mr dud.

Regardless, I hope to one day move on they way you are. And maybe when the time comes we throw a big moving on party.

Hang in there.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley,

Don't listen to her words. Look to her actions. Like she is looking towards yours.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

Hope you don't have a soccer match today. The ball would blow away.

I hear you about the watching the actions. I am attempting to really distance myself these days. I do have some great friends and almost all our mutual friends have dumped her. Tonight Duke vs UNC. Should be fun.

Hope all is going well for you. I still have my days. Still early for me but you, CW, K, Ash, all of you are inspiring.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes a big time in the Triangle tonight with that game. UNC's season is on the line tonight -- win and maybe get to the NCAAs -- lose and be 2 - 7 in the ACC and welcome to the NIT.

No, no soccer today. And yes it is getting gusty here.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow 2 days in a row of sunshine. Started to forget what that was like. I had stated a while back that I didn't know if I was doing anything for V-day for my w. Well I decided -- i am sending her flowers. No, not roses -- just a bouquet of flowers with a note that just has my name.

Why you might ask? Well as I progress on my improvements and with the help and guidance of people on this board and through reading and learning, I realized that I am becoming a man again. And as such I will do what I want and not let things pass me by. I still love my w -- but I don't need her to be happy. I want her to know that I think of her from time to time and that is it. 

And more importantly no matter what her reaction is to it -- I can handle it because I am in control of myself again. 

I am becoming a better person than I was even before I was married -- and that is the most important thing.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

You have to do what's right for you. That is what I have learned. At the end of the day, I have to lay my head on my pillow and live with the choices I have made for that day.

Just keep doing the right thing. One day it will pay off.

Good luck. We have sun, now just bring on some heat.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Where did that heat go Harley? Another snow storm last night -- what do i live in Pittsburgh? They keep coming on the weekends which sucks.

But the sun has been out all morning and roads are clearing up. Hopefully H will have his swim meet later this evening. Its a make-up meet for the last one that was canceled. 

Anyway, interesting at the pasta party for the swim meet last night. The w actually gave me a compliment -- hey you look nice. I like that sweater. I just said thank you with a little smile.

Who knows -- no analyzing on my part just stating facts. 

I might be playing snow soccer tomorrow -- probably fun though.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well a sunny down here and off to soccer with friends. 

And yes the w received the flowers yesterday that I sent. She called to check up on H and was like thank you so much for the flowers, they're beautiful, and the colors are great and its so big (funny there I got the smallest one -- almost blurted that out) I just said your welcome -- just wanted you to know I sometimes think of you. Her reply "i think of you", I moved off topic immediately and ended the call. she started calling back - rang once - but that was it.

I sent the flowers to her not because I "had to", or was "required to" but because i wanted to regardless of the reaction. Sure it was nice to hear her say those things -- but I did what i wanted and took a step. That's all it was.

Anyway --- off for some fun. Ash, if you are out there -- I'm still trucking -- finished the initial 6 week program -- but after exhaustion tests I'm back to level 3 of week 3 on push ups, but abs i'm on level 3 of week 6 and squats level 2 of week 6. So progress is continuing. A buddy has a link to a website that lays out a program (basically it is that p90x program) but its free. I'll pm it to you when I get it.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

FA, i've gotta tell you, I admire your 'step' with the flowers; I see it as a conformation of your quality of character, not just to her, but to yourself also. I wish I could overlook the bitternes I feel for my W today. I know it would be freeing to know that I could take the high road.....maybe next year.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd, you'll get there, it takes time. And it came for me by looking into yourself and changing for you, not anyone else. I just saw a post by DawnD that struck a cord -- that it takes a strong person to want to fix their relationship even with all the mistakes done by both parties -- interesting thought. You just have to get past blame -- blaming is irrelevant. What happened is just what is and blaming or showing who was right is meaningless. A waste of energy.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks FA, I know that I will in time. I can actually go for long periods of time thinking logically....I _know_ blaming is irrelevant. I have accepted what she has done to me, as I have accepted my contribution to the breakdown of our marriage. The wounds are still fresh.....

(btw, to a proud tarheeler, I spent alot of time as a kid in the beaufort/morehead city area, my lil sis was born a 'heel. I will always be a 'Mainiac', but if I were ever to consider moving south, NC would be top on my list.....I'm just a sucker for shoveling snow......)


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

Another cold morning here in NC. If it would just get up to 50 I would be happy. 

Good move with the flowers. Sounds like she honestly appreciated them. My W got flowers too. 1 from me and a dozen from her new M. Lucky 13. 

Actually, and this may sound really dumb, but my stbx-w and I are getting along great. We have both come to terms with her leaving. Once that stress was removed, we are starting to get our friendship back. That allows me to really understand where she is and why we are where we are.

I am in the process of reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and omg I am a typical textbook Mr. Nice Guy. I talked to her some about it. She says that she has never had one bad thing to say about me. That I am a great guy. Just not her type of guy. She really believes that all this is her fault. But the more I read the book, I see that I have got to make changes. Not for this marriage, but for any other relationship I have in the future.

Well at least I am starting to feel some peace. I hope everyone gets to move on and learn from the past.

And if my yard ever thaws, maybe I will get outside and do some much needed yard work.

Stay warm FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley,

Yes she honestly appreciated them. In another setting last evening she thanked me again for them. I just said again, your welcome.

Yes the book is eye opening isn't it. It has taken me time to digest it and start improving myself away from those old habits. I've still got a lot of work to do, but its just baby steps.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I''m out here FA!! And your doing great!

I started the program again today and I am determined to stick with it (the whole being snowbound and watching all these fit men and women in the Olympics may have something to do with it!!)

Message me the link for the new program whenever you get time.

Been waking up everyday a little before 7 so I can knock a run and now the pu/ su / and squats out before the kids are awake, so far its working!


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

BTW, a very mature thing that you did for the W. You didn't do it for her ( maybe a little) but you did it b/c its something that you wanted to do, and that makes it all the more genuine and real.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Sent you a PM....

I would have sent my W flowers but I didn't want to be accused of trying to "keep her in the marriage" as she stated in her motion last month....which she threw out. 

I'm not in the same place as you FA ... not yet. Keep up the good work.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, you've got a lot on your plate. Get on that program when you can. I sent you a PM with that link.

Thank you for the compliment. Yes maybe a little for her, but it was for me mostly. To me it was time to take a step and not let things pass by. I'm still not all the way to where I want to be, but I'm getting there.

Help, sent that link to you.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA,

Wow, I just wish I were where you are. I have such a long way to go. My W is still at home due to financial reasons. Her plan is to move out in August. This may sound strange but it's really stopped bothering me when she leaves the house and I know where she is going (to see her new M), but it is killing me sheer apathy she has toward me now.

She still kisses me goodbye when she leaves, does not hide where she is going, still tells me she loves me. But it is like a robot I am living with. Oh well, August can't get here quick enough.

Thanks to all you guys who are moving on. You all give me hope. And hopefully by August the temps will be above freezing. Cold weather sucks.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley,

Don't be too impressed with where I'm at -- I still struggle -- believe me. But I also have looked hard at myself and begun to change. It takes baby steps -- at least for me. 

I wouldn't accept kisses goodbye if I knew my w was walking out the door to be with someone else. And wouldn't want to hear I love yous either. Maybe you need to set up a boundardy regarding this because it obviously hurts you. You can get angry about it but this is your issue at this point and not hers. And the longer it goes on the more resentment will most likely build. I'm not saying don't be polite, confident etc. around her -- but put your foot down and say since you want to be with someone else I don't want you to kiss me on your way out or hear you say I love you to me -- in a matter of fact way. Then stick to it. 

Those actions would drive me crazy if done to me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: I'm impressed.

If my wife was walking out the door to go see her BF. I don't think I would handle it well. I'd probably change the locks, then tell her to kiss MY azz.

You need to reevaluate if you are being to nice! You can't be walked on unless you are lying down.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Impressed with what CW?


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

FA and CW,

You both impress me. Yeah I know I am laying down. Just need to make it to August. I know what I should do, but knowing and doing are always tough. 

You both are still my inspiration. I may be handling things differently but I hope to one day be as adjusted as you. I need to do some work on myself so if I ever have another relationship I do not repeat the mistakes I have made this time.

Keep up the good work. And guess what, FA? We are going to hit 50 over the weekend. Finally!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Harley, yes supposed to be in the mid 50s here this weekend --- finally.

I'm not always "that adjusted". Like today for some reason is a struggle. Other days aren't. Being honest - I do still love my w very much -- and it still pains me at times. But what you have to come to realize is that happiness comes from within. If I'm not happy its my own fault. 

I'm not to where Deejo or Skinman are at yet, but I'm getting there. 

LIke I said for some reason today is a bad day for me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Impressed with how far you've come and how you are willing to do the rest of the work! I'm glad that you haven't backed down.

I believe, as you are working on yourself, and moving forward then your bad days become fewer and more spread out. Not that you won't have any. It's a part of life and we've been hurt. 

I'm here for you FA...

I hope your day improves FA...know that


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW. I guess when it is you doing the doing you don't see it like others do. Just got off the phone with W -- she called - she just looked at a place and wants me to look at it. Again, why does it matter? I just joked around a little with her -- laughed a little with her -- told her about another place I saw, etc.

So weird.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, at least she's communicating with you. My W turned down going to a co-parenting class because she "doesn't need it". Yet she will only text me when she needs something. Today I sent her a text because one of our kids has a fever and will not be at school. No reply.

Hang in there FA. Keep the lines of communication open unless you feel she's just using you or if it's doing more harm than good.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No, its not doing any harm Help, it is just confusing. This is her life now -- she didn't need me -- but oh by the way could you look at this place. I know we have a child together and that is part of it, but I've told her repeatedly that I trust her judgement when it comes to him or where she will live. 

She looked worn out yesterday when I picked up my son. I talked briefly with her then -- yes CW I kept it light and happy. Had a good dinner with H, did some homework with him (I like seeing him grow in his abilities). Tried to find this new "place" -- couldn't it was too dark to see the numbers. While waiting for her class to finish (she teaches some aerobics type classes in the evening at the YWCA where she works part time in finance) H relaxed on my lap -- love that. He wanted to stay with me. He gave me a huge hug before I left -- priceless.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: She does need you...you are the father to H. That's important to her. It's obvious. 

I keep thinking FA...you need to have a sit down discussion and ask her "where's are you heading?" A straight up question. You need to know if there is any chance in restarting this marriage again. I know it's not your nature and you don't wish to pursue (arf) but wouldn't that be a good opening discussion.

I can hear your response now.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

When I'm at a point where I believe I'm ready -- that type of discussion will be made. But I'm not quite there yet. I have to be all the way there to do that.

IS that the response you figured you hear CW?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

YES!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

So do you think I'm ready to have that talk? I don't, not today. In a month or two maybe.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

No CW, I'm not quite ready. Remember it hasn't been that long since I've quit blaming and releasing my anger. If it is meant to be, time is irrelevant. I still have work to do on me.


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## harley2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

Spoken like a truly mature person. That in its self may say you are approaching the ready time.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

harley: You are correct with FA. 

You are one smart guy FA....it will get done (discussion). I don't doubt it one bit!


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Hey FA - I so enjoy reading about where you are headed and how you are doing.....it's all good in my book


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, so glad to hear from you. I was starting to get worried. I'm just doing.

So, to everyone -- today H and I had a good day. Did some errand running and got him to his swim meet. So this has got to be one of the most unusual statements I've heard from w. H and I get there before her (not a shock) -- I get set up. I had volunteer to time for the meet so didn't think about bringing chairs but had one in the back of my truck. The mother of the co-captain mentioned that thought there was seating and didn't bring chairs and I'm like well I got one you could borrow. She was grateful. Set it up and w shows up. She says "hey did you bring chairs to set up for us?" I just said well I didn't cause I'm timing but lent Catherine's mom the one I happened to have. Got her the extra, extra towel I always bring so she could sit on the deck and not get wet. I mean -- you expect me to bring chairs -- no I didn't say that. What gives with that? So confusing. 

And yes CW after the meet when there was time to chat -- I managed to get her laughing. We will see.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Do you usually bring the chairs?

If so, that would be understandable. 

However, in any case who knows? 

Reading minds never works? Just drives you crazy.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

We always brought chairs for the swim meets, but that was when together. At the last meet they weren't necessary. Just thought what kind of statement is that -- almost an expectation on me. Just weird is all. 

But she did laugh afterwards when we were chatting on the way out.


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## whattodo17 (Jan 12, 2010)

feelingalone-I just wanted to say that I am really impressed that you are standing your ground and doing what you need to do to improve yourself before having the talk with her. I only hope if that day comes for me when I feel H is coming around I can be that strong!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

What a great day. Weather was great today. Three hours of soccer. A couple hours of having a picnic out and some corn hole. Good friends, good times. Now I'm beat. LIfe could be worse.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

love reading your posts FA 
will be back in touch sometime soon - just overwhelmed with my life right now


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: What is "cornhole?" And I want to know if I am the ONLY one that didn't know this word! LOL


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, its a game like horse shoes but with bean bags and wood targets with a hole in them. It has become big around here for picnics, the beach , etc.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Glad someone asked CW.......


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Gosh guys, aren't you in tune with the new yard/beach games? Ladder ball, corn hole, etc. Good games and fun.

Well tonight was a good busy night. Made some homemade spaghetti sauce (yes I had store bought so learned to make it), made some egg salad, did laundry, worked out. Well enough for my daily journal.

And yes I like to cook when I have time -- maybe I'll take a cooking class.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

good for you FA! sound yummy! the games sound like a lot of fun too!

keep cooking! one of my favorite things to do!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I meant hate not had -- store bought sauce.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

So like a good evening! I'm clueless with yard games...I guess. 
Frisbee may be in my vocabulary of yard/beach games.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Cooking!! I love to Cook, had a new years resolution learning to make one new meal a month...this month I'm making carne guisda. We'll see how that goes!! FA- wanted to let you know I completed the First week onto the second week and am up to running 2 1/2 miles every morning it feels good!! Now if only this damn East Coast weather would warm up....

Anyone heard from LH?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Good job Ash. I'm working my way back through the push up part on level 3 -- will finish week 3 tomorrow. With abs i'm doing level 3 on Week 6 -- that makes me hurt. 

Yes the weather has been unusually tough this year. Although we had a great 67 degree sunny Sunday this past weekend.

No I haven't heard from LH and was wondering the same thing.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Ash you are incredible...exercising, school, work and 2 babies! Oh my..."NO EXCUSE" is your motto!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Today is a bad day for me. I struggle.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

You're not alone.....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm here for you FA!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Hynd.

I know you are CW -- and I appreciate it.


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## Steph (Feb 25, 2010)

Isn't is crazy how extreme your emotions can be when dealing with this type of situation? I wonder if I am crazy sometimes  One day youfeel so strong (make spaghetti) and know you will be ok and the next day you are down.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

FA- blame it on the weather, its been a bad winter (at least up here)

Use the bad days to your advantage FA- figure out what exactly is getting/bring you down or why you are feeling that kind of way. If no answer comes to you just let it go. I told K to place a time limit on yourself, allow yourself to feel those emotions and then let them go.

I know easier said than done, and I still struggle with it.

In my thoughts FA...


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I know I thought global warming was going to eliminate snow. Heck we've had more this year than the last five years combined. Thanks for the support.

I had a lot of bad moment today, but my friend called me and his are so much more. His w was admitted to the hospital under suicide watch. How is my situation even close to that -- its not. They've been through a lot -- which I can't go into here -- but he has been a great friend to me through my situation and she is a great person when balanced (she does have issues). So in the scheme of things -- I'm good. 

Ash, now drop and give me 20. Kidding. Just remember to do one thing a day for you. Just one thing can make a difference.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Doesn't the sorrows of others bring our lives in perspective?

Where I work...I see many, many sorrows. I come home and feel extremely blessed for my life and for the life of my children. I will never take my life for granted. I am blessed.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hey FA, got any more room in your 'class'? Started 100PUs today, theres my 1 thing........


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

You are welcome to join in any time. Are you doing the abs and squats as well? I've got a link to an alternative program to the P90x exercise regime -- web based. I haven't started that yet, will after I can do 100 pus. I can about do the abs and squats, just lagging on the pus -- but I'm getting there.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Yep, I'm going to try all 3; starting week3 on pus and squats, but holly snot! what happened to my 6 pack! lots of work there.......


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

Yeah wait til you get to week six, level 3, day 3 -- 411 crunches -- I did that 2 days ago -- my abs hurt today. This are such simple things to do -- but they sure do hurt. What level are you doing on the pus?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Gosh...you guys are making me tired and a bit motivated.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Ha! Ha! CW, how do you think I feel, my brother is a runner currently training for a 33 mile 'ultra' marathon. I on the other hand havn't lifted a weight or run a mile in......16 years? 

FA, I'm starting week 3/2 on PUs, same on squats. Still can't get over the crunches though........411? Are you doing the three days/week? every time I think about it I feel like bustin a few out. I could barely do 20! I remember doing at least 100 in high school....Ash, if you're lucky, you will be this old someday too!


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## Jemal Jelil (Dec 3, 2008)

I haven't spent a lot of time here, but FA, your story had me compelled and I found myself reading more n more of your posts.

Just wanted to say...way to take charge of your life!

I'm impressed. You're a wonderful example of personal transformation (I know you'll probably say you have a long way to go...and it's the people that have come the furthest that say stuff like that.)

Keep it up, man. You're inspiring.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Jemal you are right on! I totally agree with your summary on FA.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd, 

Yup I'm doing the 3 days a week. The 411 was over the 9 sets. In exhaustion testing I'm up over 165 crunches. When I started on the pus I was miserable -- had lost a lot of upper body strength during my foggy depression mode. And I had to break through a psychological block of passing 20 -- but it happened. I just keep pushing through it. I start week 4 today. The squats get me especially hard at times -- especially like this weekend when I'll do them today and then play soccer tomorrow (my legs will kill me on monday I'm sure)

Jemal, thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I have traveled a ways so far and am starting to see that -- but I do have other things to do for me. Deejo is my inspiration along with CW, K and many others.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

hey FA - glad t hear that things are still kicking over for you - I am still overwhelmed with work and life in general - but will try and catch up sometime soon


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

K, glad to hear from you. Was thinking about the blue skies in Australia yesterday. Please let us know how you are doing. I understand overwhelmed but you can do it.

Well it was a pretty good weekend. Did have H at all this weekend - his grandmother was visiting from WV so I agreed to let her have him both nights. He did have a swim meet and he did well. I always volunteer to time and did again (i like being there for H and all the kids -- by the end of the meet my voice is raspy from cheering). W volunteered as well and I caught her looking at me numerous times throughout the meet. She even patted me as I walked by a couple times. CW, I'm not analyzing just stating facts. I just tried to keep on smiling the whole meet and talking to other people. H got a couple 1st places at the meet. Of course it is easier to win when you are the only boy swimming 8 and under butterfly -- but he improved his time. 

Took H to our Sunday pick up soccer game. Lots of kids to play with. Funny thing was I was to pick him up at a certain time and w texts me they might be running tight since they went to lunch, then calls a while later and is in a panick that they hadn't been seated yet and he needed to change, she was like I told mom you were picking him up at such and such time but they, blah, blah, blah. I'm like hey no problem, just bring him down when you are done and he's ready. Another buddy of his came down to play as well. Odd that she was soo upset about her mom.

Anyway it was a good day outside -- a little chilly, but we had a good game. 

And Ash I finished week 6 on the abs at level 3. I'll go through that level again every week until I finish the pus -- just started week 4 on level 3. Squats were on hold last week due to a calf issue from last weeks soccer game. My legs were bruised up last week.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: It all sounds good! Very nice.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I've started reading a book which is intriguing -- early in the book it states that a lot of people in our time seem to get the two most important questions of our lives in the wrong order. To the author those questions are "Who will go with us?" and "Where am I going?". A lot put the who first instead of the where. Until we know where we are going -- the who is irrelevant isn't it?

I'm in a contemplative and inward looking time. I still struggle at times. But I just keep moving forward. One foot in front of the other. Where am I going?


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmmmm. Guilty. Whats the title?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd, did you get the PM on the book title?

Well finally getting some warmer weather here. Had lunch with H at school today. He loves it when I come. I even went to recess wtih him after. I know a lot of the kids from coaching them in baseball and soccer. He held my hand all the way to the cafeteria and all the back from recess. So sweet.

Tomorrow is his big championship swim meet. Going to be long -- there are 700 kids swimming ages 11 and under. I hope he places in something -- then he'd get a medal and not just a ribbon. But I'll be proud of him no matter what. He is really developing.

You know one positive thing coming out of my situation is that I appreciate even more the time I spend with him. It seems so special, although I wish it wasn't under these circumstances.

So nothing new with the w. She has leased a new place and will move into it next weekend. You know she seems indifferent about it all at times. I just don't know what steps to take next with her. The flowers were a hit with her I know that. But I'm not ready to do anything more and realize it isn't a race or least not a hare's race -- more like a turtle.

Oh well, you live, you learn, you improve, you move forward. That's all you can do.

To Ash -- are you doing the program? I just finished up level 3 on week 4 for the pus. It's a burner -- 29 -33 - 29 - 29 - 40. I finished on my knees it hurt so bad. Crunches seem to be getting to easy I re-did level 3 week 6 and didn't really hurt until I hit about the 120th rep on the last set -- but they hurt this morning. Squats I will feel tomorrow morning.

Enough of my diary for now.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA: Lately, you seem a bit more upbeat....I can't pinpoint it but it's just the language that you're using. Perhaps you are moving away from guilt? 

Perhaps sitting her down, at some point, and asking directly..."Where do you see us?" A simple question. I guess the hard part is knowing that it may not be the answer you are wanting to hear. Preparing for the worse, in your heart. But really...how much worse can it get?


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Also ask yourself (again) where _you_ see 'us'? Does _she_ know this? Is she honestly willing to accept those changes? I think the importance of this self improvement metamorphosis might easily be overlooked by some in such circumstances. One of my recent realizations is that my W will never see the 'big' picture, her little universe is just waaaaay too important to her.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes I think I am CW -- more positive these days. Maybe its just realizing what I want out of life or more importantly what I have. Good friends who chat with me to all hours of the night. People that care about me -- all my soccer buddies. And just working on my personal code about what I want. Of course it doesn't hurt that my business is picking up also and I might be on the cusp of being involved in a start up company that has an incredible future. A friend is involved who will most likely be CEO (always keep your network going).

Yesterday was a nice day -- long. H's swim meet was so loooong. It was the championship meet and was only the 10 and under swimming in his session -- but there were 700 kids in the group. Lasted 5 and a half hours. He did pretty well, but he's only 7 and swims with 8 year olds plus the 9-10 relays he participates in. I was proud of him -- he did great.

Today was a great weather day and took H with me to soccer. He was playing in a creek and climbing rocks -- oh well missed one. Ended up in urgent care -- broken collar bone. Broke the same one when he was 2. There goes baseball season.

He's ok -- he held up well. At least it was after the last swim meet.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Oh and H, me and w had dinner together. A little awkward.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

So glad that H had fun at his swim meet! My son broke his collar bone ,when he was 4, doing somersaults in the grass! Not sure how these things happen (broke collarbones) but I guess he's an old pro by the second break? I hope he's in not too much pain...

You are right about being thankful about we have...FA. Many reasons to be thankful...friends; family; and long chats.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yup CW, H is an old pro at it now with a second break. You know he cried but didn't scream his head off. On top of falling off the rock onto one he went into the creek so he was soaked. It was weird being in urgent care with W and H (we agreed with each other to alert the other if something major happened to H) like a couple times before. But I wasn't thinking about "us" just H -- as it should be. Dinner was a little weird. I just tried to focus on H and be upbeat. 

But he was in a good amount of pain -- his shoulder was already showing bruising within the hour after it happened. He held up great though. He got to skip a day of school. I talked with him earlier today (he wanted to talk to me -- throughout this whole thing I've always let him know that he can always call me) -- will see him for dinner this evening. 

I just wanted to hold him all night last night -- I miss that I couldn't.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I remember when my son broke his...he was fine but one false move...AAHHH! I was afraid to touch him at times. 

It's great that you two can be together, without fuss, during these important times. Another thing to be thankful about.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well H is doing better. Still hurts when he bumps it of course. But he seems in better spirits. I had lunch with him at school today. Love that cafeteria food -- NOT!!

Just feel bad for him because this evening is his swim team banquest and it is at an indoor water park place. He won't be able to do much. 

CW, I think it is time I sent that letter.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm glad that H is perking up! 

It's an honest letter....you are putting yourself out there. She will then know what your plans are and how you are moving forward. Hopefully, at some point, she will have a response. If not, then you will know where you stand regardless.

No regrets.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well it was a pretty good weekend, except for rain in the evenings Friday and Saturday night. Saturday's rain screwed up my plans to take H to a soccer game between our local pro soccer team and a MLS team. Oh well, we rented a movie.

Took him out to return to the scene of the crime of his injury -- Sunday soccer. He had fun. Went to a friends house afterwards for dinner and then dropped him off at w's place. She moved to a new place this past weekend. 

Anyway, I mailed the letter Saturday. You are right CW. It is an open and honest letter. I let someone I trust read it and they said wow that is so open and is gutsy. No blame, no begging, no real mention of a relationship. I doubt I will get a response. I don't expect one. I don't expect anything from her anymore. 

Ash, if you are out there I'm still trucking through the programs.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Maybe no response, from her, but you are at a new place now!

It doesn't matter as you are forging a new path. With or without her, you will have a fantastic life! I know this....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well another day. No mention of the letter from her. So I don't know if she even received it. I sent to her new address which may not have allowed it to get through. Who knows.

Although I said I don't expect a response, I think I expected at least an ackowledgement of receipt. Oh well.

Onward with my life. And it is my life.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I guess it's status quo for your wife. She didn't respond to the previous letter did she? 

It would be decent of her to say.."I received your letter." 

You dead on not expecting much, if any, from her. 

You are just doing what you NEED to do to know that you tried everything. That's the way to leave/enter a marriage. 

It's a wonderful life.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes it would be decent of her to say that, but maybe she is thinking about the contents. Who knows, but I guess I"m not surprised by it.

Yes I am doing what I need to do. 

I'm working on the wonderful life. One step at a time.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well yesterday was a good day with my son. Went to a flea market, got our season passes made for the amusement park nearby, washed my truck and watched a movie. We had fun.

Went out with friends last night. Had a good time.

Played soccer in the rain today -- but it was fun. Not a bad weekend at all. 

Can't wait to start riding roller coasters again.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I love the coasters as well!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, they are opening a new one this year that is supposed to be the tallest and fastest on the east coast -- about 230 feet up and comes down around 80 - 85 mph. 

I know my little guy want on it -- hope he is tall enough. A couple more inches and he can ride everything in the park.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

For some reason today has been a difficult day for me. I miss my son. I really do.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Just thinking of you FA...wish I could give you a hug. Missing them is the hardest.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW. Yes missing him is the hardest part. I hate it. I want to see him everyday and I know he does too. That is the part that is sooo difficult. 

Still no acknowledgement on even receipt of the letter. Like you said that in itself is an answer.

Who knows.

Peace.


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

My heart hurt for you and your son FA, heck my heart breaks everyday when I hear my son begging me to come home to the apartment so he can see his Daddy and how do you explained to a 3 years old about this? So I can only tell him that Daddy is still working and we'll be home soon.  

Praying for you and your son.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks MD. All we can do is move forward. It is hard with ones so young -- my son is 7 so it is a little easier to explain to him. All I know is to reassure him (probably do it too much) that I love him and will always be there for him. And that his mom does too. 

I write letters to him which I will give him when he is older in which I talk about things. Sort of like my journal for him.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

He will always know that you love him..by your words and your actions! 

So....how is life? Have you smiled lately???


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

FA, I love that idea of writing letter for your son so he will read it in the future. I might have to try that since I love to write LOL.

It is so hard but I've been doing what you do by telling our precious little one how much we love them (told him that his Daddy loves him too!) and I never once speak anything bad about his Daddy to him. 

Prayers for you & your son.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, only a couple smiles lately for some reason. Don't know why but i've been a little down the last week or so. I'm just trying to keep taking those baby steps. Still working out on that program -- getting closer to my goals on that.

I know some of it is the pain I feel when I leave H after being with him or when he leaves. Some of it is that last sliver of hope. Maybe I'm at that last stage of totally letting go or final acceptance. I don't know. 

But I know I will survive.

MD, that is all I know to do with him -- to be there for him.

Peace.


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## wren (Aug 19, 2009)

FA, you are such a good daddy. It will be appreciated so much as your son ages. The letters are precious.

I wish you more and more smiles, darlin'.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wren it is great to hear from you. See that you moved closer to Raleighwood. Glad you are moving forward.

Had a pretty good weekend -- ready to hit the coasters this weekend. CW our amusement park opened last weekend, but didn't go.

I've felt down recently as I've said. Couldn't put my finger on it, but I read a post by Turnera talking about honesty. And I've thought a lot about that post. Some where in there is a kernel of me -- being that scared little 6 year old that reared its head over an issue in my marriage (no, i didn't cheat). One that led to my depressive state of mind and fear of losing my w. Well of course that led to losing her. But I think the pain, guilt and other things have continued in me. So I wrote out a letter to my w. One which I don't intend to give her, but one I needed to write nonetheless. Since writing that letter I've felt a relief. What is in it has been said previously to her, but I had never written it out for me to think about. I don't know the reason why, but I feel better today.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Sounds like the spring weather is coming around given that the amusement parks are beginning to open! 

It's so cathartic to let the feelings out-however you can manage. Leaving them sitting...rotting...dwelling...takes a toll on your future. 

A divorce is like a death and we all process it differently. Perhaps you are moving to a more peaceful stage....acceptance. I am so glad to have moved to that point and beyond. 

FA...your life is going to get better and become more joyous.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, thanks for your words. You are right, my life is getting better and will get even better. As long as I allow it to. It is in my control.


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

FA, so good to hear that your life is getting better and I like your words "It is in my control" Very inspiring!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

MD I think that is the secret to everything -- realizing you are in control of only yourself. Even after realizing it -- it is still hard. Baby steps.

Well a pretty good easter weekend. Had my little guy and my niece and nephew around all weekend. Went to a private zoo in the area where you can go through on a wagon and feed the animals. My nephew had such a blast (he's 2) -- feeding llamas, bison, pigs, deer of all types, elands, antelopes, giraffe, sheep, etc.

Spent a lot of time outside playing and watching the three of them play. Had a great easter egg hunt -- 80 eggs for three little guys. Played a lot. Went to see that How to train a dragon movie with them. Anyone with kids -- it is a good one. They all liked it.

Me, I'm still hanging in there. Holidays are always tough the first time around. Now I just dread my anniversary -- comes up in May. We are stille married (state law -- have to wait a year). 

I still love my w. But as I started this post -- I can only control me and my actions. Not hers. Still loving her sucks -- sometimes I want to go back to just hating her and being angry at her. But that is a waste of my time and energy. 

Peace for now.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I'm posting today for all those "nice guys" out there. I just finished a book suggested by Deejo. "Being the Strong Man A Woman Wants" by Elliott Katz. As Deejo said it isn't a step by step guide but told as a story about a Grandfather passing on his wisdom and experiences to his grandson who is having issues with his wife.

It goes through the issues that many men face when getting into marriage and why they need to be a man and what that means. Although not a guide it explains the why this path works on the various issues.

It is a quick read since it occurs during their one day hike. To me I understand the concepts Ive read in other books and others have tried to explain to me because of this one's simple way. Maybe I'm just dense when it comes to this and need to hear it multiple ways.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on it -- and give it two thumbs up as a great book. One I will make sure my son reads when he gets older.

Going to be a great weather day here -- I'll be playing soccer with friends all afternoon.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

So proud of you and what you've accomplished Eric! 

Building yourself up, from the inside out. You are going to make a great mate to someone one day. I know you may not want to hear that but I'm telling it to you anyway!

Keep playing.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I'm getting there slowly but surely. I've re-read that book already. It really does put the things in the correct perspective. That some of us men "thought" we were giving our all, etc., but we were doing it in the wrong way.

We thought it is a partnership so it should be this way, when that isn't what women really wanted. It is theoretically, but not in how it is accomplished. 

Makes me sad to think how wrong I was doing things when I thought I was going about it the "equal" way. I guess I'm just dense.

And also we were afraid of being the "man" because that term has been perverted to mean "macho" which isn't what women want (at least not really) but what a man is honorable, strong, compassionate, etc.

Like a great quote in the book "She wants a man who knows what he wants. The irony is, if you're just always trying to please her, you don't really please her at all." Dead on with me.

Never too late to learn the "correct" way.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> Like a great quote in the book "She wants a man who knows what he wants. The irony is, if you're just always trying to please her, you don't really please her at all." Dead on with me.
> 
> Never too late to learn the "correct" way.



YES! THAT is dead on. Heck...none of us are given an owner's manual. Even if we did have one, who would read it! Then, we'd have to choose a mate that read it as well. 

The guy I am dating now...meets the above quote. This is unchartered territory for me. Someone who knows what they want, expresses themself, and allows me to express myself. 

However, I didn't know that I wanted this either. Remember...no owner's manual. 

Many life lessons.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well Happy Tax Day everyone. I'm filed, how about you. And to celebrate April 15th even more please know that on today in history (1) the Titanic sunk, and (2) Abraham Lincoln died. On the bright side -- Leonardo DaVinci was born and Jackie Robinson made his deubt as the first African American pro baseball player in the majors.

So a little bad and a little good. And hey it is my birthday too!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)




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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thank you Affaircare. Hard to believe right now but my w didn't send a card nor have my child send one or as of yet call me to wish me happy birthday.

Her mother at least sent me an e-mail doing so. I replied. Thank you so much. The thought and remembrance was enough. 

Tanelornpete -- see indifference. And yes on her birthday I did send her a card from me, made sure our son bought a present and gave her a card on her birthday even though the 21st of December. 

Oh well, you live and you learn. But hard to believe.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Well happy birthday Matthew M!! I'm sure you look wonderful! Lol

I hope you have a wonderful birthday FA, I know its hard when the other doesn't even acknowledge your birthday. Hell I haven't spoken to mine in months and it still hurt when he didn't send anything for mine. It just sucks, but its still your birthday your son loves you the weather is beautiful and its baseball season! lol And only six more months until football season, so many things to be thankful for!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I can only assume you are taking yourself out to the biggest, best steak dinner in all the surrounding counties. I'm sorry your disloyal hasn't even bothered to have the kids get you something--and it's not like you can "forget" Tax Day. Nonetheless that's no reason not to celebrate you, and do exactly what you enjoy. Shoot I volunteer to let you know how much I celebrate having had the privilege of knowing you and I barely know ya! 

So have an amazing day (and night) knowing that you are highly thought of and celebrated probably even by your disloyal and for sure by your kids. She's just "lacking in social graces" today.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash,

Good to hear from you. Hope you are doing well. Just as an update on working out -- I'm almost finished with that darn hundredpushups.com program. I'm on week 5 level 3 day 2 (just did it an hour ago or so). Had to break through doing 40 reps in a set -- for some reason it took a while. Now not so big even after dong 140 or so prior. Abs are good -- added doing the P90x ab routine every other day with jump roping. Now if i can shake a pulled muscle so I can do pull ups I will finish that as well.

Affaircare -- no not dinner tonight. Saturday night with my son (he doesn't know) -- Japaneese Steakhouse. He loves it and so do I. Its his favorite. I just keep moving forward, but her actions tell me where I stand -- you are lucky to have Tanelornpete and he you. Together and separately you guys rock the house.

I continue to learn. I didn't do things right, but it wasn't consciously. I didn't decide one day to be a bad husband nor did she decide to be a bad wife -- it just happened. I'm just trying to fix me. That's all I can do.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

And Ash you know the Stillers are goin to beat the Egles without Donovan unless Big Ben gets suspended for that game. 

Go STEEEEELERS


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Man.......I hate the eagles so I hope they do. I'm a skins fan soooo yea not to happy about this whole ********* donovan thing, still trying to get over it luckily right now I have my yankees during baseball season consoling me !! lol


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash, I forgot you are a Skins fan. Hey Donovan will be a good fit with Shanahan. The skins will be better this year. Yankees? Oh geez. While you enjoy winning and success -- my Pirates have been mired in 20 years of futility. Never been the same since the Bond, Bonia, Van Slyke outfied days.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Had lunch at school with my little guy. Stuck around for recess. I know a lot of the kids from coaching soccer and baseball. About four other boys in his grade are on his team this spring. 

Tomorrow is opening day. He will miss it though - out of town in the morning and early afternoon. Can't wait to go to dinner with him. I didn't tell him where. He'll love it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It was a long opening day. Stretched out over opening day ceremonies, then an hour and a half later pictures, and the another hour and a half later our first game. It is a nice park though lots going in and just hung out in between with other baseball parents I know. 

First game was great for us. We won and without 3 of our pretty good players. I love coaching.

Had a great time at dinner with my son. He loves the Japanese Steakhouse. Came home after and played outside for a while, played some cards.

At bedtime I noticed a message on my phone (was on vibrate). It was from the w. She was crying, etc. and very emotional -- her step grandfather passed. It was expected in a lot of ways -- but never on the day it happens. Called her -- I remained calm, compassionate and strong. I think I lead her -- talk about whether taking son out of school or not; things like that. Then she started getting really emotional (only a little up to that point) when she really did and I asked why -- "its still so hard with where we are at". I just said I'm here to support you in this. Anyway, no analyzing by me just a statement during stressful time for her.

He was a good man. A tough old bird that hung on a lot longer than I ever would have thought. Didn't let the doctors tell him what to do -- he was ready. Be at peace papa Jim.

Peace.


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## crisis1008 (Mar 9, 2010)

My condolences to you and your family. I think you are very strong and caring to support your wife during this time. 

I tried to be there for my husband when he claimed he was having troubles with his children, but just being supportive gave him hope that we would get back together. I think he used the children to begin having lengthier dialogue with me.

I did not know exactly how to handle the situation. 

You are a good man.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Crisis,

Thank you. I'm just trying to be a good person. I know some on here would say I need to do something different. But after careful thought and reflection I need to be the man I want to be -- a strong man who can be the calm in the storm and compassionate when the time comes. I could tell her to piss off and fill her emotional needs elsewhere. But she would say I wasn't there for her when she needed me -- a love buster. 

But that isn't why I'm doing this -- she is in pain, she is human and it is the right thing to do. Regardless of anything else. I do this knowing I am leading her in this moment. I expect nothing in return from her. 

So thank you again.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

FA, sorry to hear about the loss in your family. 

Decent people support those who are suffering, so it is quite clear you are a very decent person. I'd do the same for my ex in a heart beat--we shared many years, his family was mine. Our marriage has ended but not our past. Some people just don't get that. And others, like Crisis1008's husband, will manipulate the good in another to get what they want. 

So, good for you, and glad your dinner with your son went well. It's nice to have time alone with our kids!


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

FA, my condolences for your loss. You're a great. man to be able to console your soon to be ex while keeping it real. Kudos to you!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

MD,

Thanks. I'm in a better place now. If this happened six months ago I don't think I would of or could of done this. 

Well my son and I had a great day outside yesterday afternoon. Soccer was great had a good 12 on 12 game. There were about 18 kids running around and playing. Great weather -- about 74 with no humidity.

Afterwards went to w's house. We sat our son down and had the talk about Papa Jim's death. I did a lot of research yesterday am to guide me in handling it. He took it well. We told him the truth -- he died from a serious illness and he wasn't coming back. That he was in a better place. Made sure to ask about his feelings. Told him that to see Papa Jim all he had to do was close his eyes and remember the times we were with him.

So, we decided he wouldn't go to WV for funeral that he would stay with me while w was away. We packed up both vehicles. My w was affected by this -- I could see it -- I went to her and gave her a hug. Physical touch is one of her love languages. She started to cry saying "this is so weird". She told me that was why she was crying on the message -- that she was ok up until she heard my voice. I reassured her everything will work out. That she could call to talk if she needed -- to her I wasn't always there for her in the right ways.

Later on the road she called to discuss some play dates for after school she set up for our son. She was like "I'm going to start to cry if we don't hang up soon, I'm not like this until I hear your voice"

Just said I am here if you need to talk. Let us know when you get there. Be safe.

I'm finally leading. It has come naturally during this time. The things I would have missed before I'm not. I becoming a better person. This makes me happy.


Peace.


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## morningdew (Jan 14, 2010)

FA, I had finally finished reading your thread from the first page to 62! Only took me a day and a half but I just can't stop reading.

Your personal growth as a person is so clear throughout these 62pages and by sharing this you're showing hopes for others (mostly for me) that it does takes a lot of hard work and it is normal to have 'bad days' but most importantly it is do-able.

I am so impressed with your words on being perfectly imperfect I think I'll add that to my bio LOL.

Many thanks to you, CW, K, Ash and LH for you guys had all been so inspiring in your supports to one another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

MD,

Just remember there is no time line. I feel it has taken me longer than others -- but then I'm perfectly imperfect. I've had not just down days but down periods.

The hardest part of the journey for me is when looking into the mirror and finding out your flaws -- sometimes that cause(s)d so much pain -- to realize those flaws cause(d) others pain - especially the one you love so much. 

Anyway, if you find hope in my story then I'm paying it forward for those that gave me hope on here. 

Had our second game of the season last night. Team started out slow -- had issues with the machine last night. First time ump who didn't know how to use it. Once that worked itself out our guys started lighting up the other team. The kids were going nuts as only first and second graders can. Even the rain they played in didn't dampen their spirits. It was a great game. Look forward to the next one on Saturday. 

As for Papa Jim -- he was laid to rest yesterday. Peace Papa Jim -- Peace.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I got a call from my w this morning. I missed it and she left a message. This was her message "I need to talk to you a guy called me last night and said some disturbing things about you, I need to talk to you about it."

So I called her back. Turns out the call was from Mr. WV. They haven't been "friends" for a while -- my son let that slip a couple months ago. Turns out he has been stalking her some, texting and calling over the last four months. She told me they had a falling out around New Years. He showed up at her workplace -- driving around in the parking lot. Got caught by OM#1 (who I still don't know if a true friend to her or a "friend"). 

Anyway, he told her that I was bribing him for information about her to prove she was unstable and to take our son away from her. That he had e-mails from me, phone calls, etc. Of course none of this is true. She just wanted to hear me say it wasn't true.

I could hear the trembling in her voice the whole time she recounted his call. She was still trembling -- etc. She was afraid I would actually do this -- which would devastate her.

We talked, more than we have in a long time. She said she probably was "unstable" last fall as was I. To which she said we both needed to get our minds right. I asked her if she received the letter I sent weeks ago (which she never mentioned).

She said she received it and that she has been thinking a lot about it. And didn't know what to say or how to respond. That it wasn't until recently that she could look at me without anger. The why did it take this to wake you up. Why did it take this to do so.

I said I internalized so much back then I was lost. Now I'm not. I told her we should have lunch next week. She agreed. And there was more generically by her about what happens in July if anything. (July being our one year of physical seperation required here to divorce). She never used the D word and even seemed to let that up in the air.

It was a start between us of communication. No matter where I go from here at least we will be able to communicate. Because no matter what, we will be joined through our son for the rest of our lives.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well got another ball game today. That is if it isn't pouring down rain. Hope we play -- I enjoy teaching the kids. Seeing their excitement, etc. My son is out of town, but I'm still a coach and will be there if we play

Been doing a lot of thinking about the events of the last week. You know life is like a river. Always changing course. Calm at times, raging at others. I just need to be strong. My w's fog is lifting or has lifted -- reality is hitting her. I will be a strong man for me during this time.

All I can do is keep focusing on me and my son. 

For those who have read my thread know I started the hundred push ups program. Well I'm getting close to finishing. I finished Day 2 of Week 6 on Level 3 last night. Now I couldn't do all the reps in set 9 good form but finished the last 15 doing push ups on the knees. However, I'm close to being able to do 100 consecutive push ups. I can do the 200 ab crunches -- heck with this program and the p90x ab routine I'm doing a couple thousand reps of ab exercises. Note to self -- maybe that is why my abs are always so tight -- hmmmm. I can also do the 200 consecutive squats. 

These were goals of mine and I am achieving them. I keep improving me on the outside and the inside.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well we did play Saturday. It rained the entire time -- we were the only rain game of the day. Kids had fun and we tied.

Sunday was another good soccer day with friends. Always good to be outside. Had some good texts from the w about her races. She is letting me in on things she does now and takes pride in.

It seems the fog has lifted and reality is finally being let in.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well had a great yesterday with my son. Took him to the Monday pro am of the Quail Hollow Championship golf event. Pretty low key -- no neither Tiger or Phil were participating (they came into town today). But it doesn't matter to a 7 year old. He got autographs from the players that were there including Padraig Harrington. And even got autographs from Dell Curry (former NBA player), Stephen Curry (current NBA rookie of the year candidate) and Michale Waltrip. He got gloves and balls. And it was nice weather about 74 with some wind.

He had a great time. Hopefully score some tickets for Friday's round. Tonight baseball practice.

So to all out there remember life goes on -- keep going with it.

Oh and when I dropped off our son I noticed she had on some type of ring on her left ring finger. I noticed it -- didn't acknowledge or freak out. She then kept it covered.

Who knows, who cares. She can't get my goat anymore.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I actually scheduled and had a session with my w's marriage counselor. We did couples and individual counseling with her. I hadn't been to see her in over six months.

It was a great session. She was like -- wow you look great, you are on the right path, you've come so far. We talked about what I've been doing for me. Did discuss the w. Talked about the fact that w just wasn't there when we were in counseling. That no matter what I did then it would never be enought. That w has her own issues to deal with -- most of which stem from her father.

It was an interesting, and sometimes emotional session. I felt great coming out because she was so encouraging and supportive of the work I've done on me. I even gave her some book titles that she didn't know about.

Makes me feel good about where I've traveled from to get where I am today.


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## whattodo17 (Jan 12, 2010)

You are doing great! Wish I was as strong as you are! Congratulations on how far you have come .


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Whattodo17, work on yourself and you'll get there. You don't see it yourself, but others will. That is what was nice about the counselor. Heck at the end she didn't even bring up setting another appointment. I still find it so interesting that she brought up that my w "has Issues" so many times.

So had a ballgame last night. Ended in a tie. So we are undefeated at 2-0-2. Kids had fun, but you start losing their attention around 7 pm with 1st and 2nd graders. 

Off tomorrow to the golf tournament with my son again. A friend gave me tickets and a parking pass -- I have some great friends. Maybe he'll get the elusive Tiger autograph. He and I will have some fun.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Feelingalone~

As you know, I've gone over and over and over your story, pondering it and puzzling what you could do or even considering where we might find a foothold and start, and here's the long story short. 

Normally in an affair, we would encourage the loyal spouse to gather evidence, expose it (so it's no longer "a secret"), do the phase that's we call "Carrot and Stick" to work on themselves and meet the disloyal's needs but also allow them to experience the consequences of their choices, and then do the phase we call "Dark & Silent" to show the disloyal what a divorce is truly like and what it is like to not have the loyal available to meet some needs and have the OP meet their other needs. 

At this point I would venture a guess that you're doing the "Carrot and Stick" phase and doing a GREAT job working on yourself and once again reclaiming the man that you have the potential to be...the man who won her heart at one point and the man who very gradually drifted away over the years. So on that regard you are doing an AMAZING job. 

I also note that where it is reasonable you are allowing her to experience the natural consequences of her choice to have an affair and leave the family etc. For example, often a lady will have the A but then still expect their husband to fix the car...mow the lawn...etc. at her love nest.  In this instance, I see you being humane with the death of her family member, yet conscientious of not allowing her to have her cake and eat it too. 

So to be honest, I see the same thing the w's marriage counselor sees. Yes, there's always room for a person to grow and improve, but at this point from what I can see...if the marriage is going to reconcile and recover, it would mean that she's going to have to face herself, do some work to reciprocate adding some of your love kindlers and ending some of her love extinguishers. #1 on that list would be ending all contact with any Other Men and never, EVER contacting them again. #2 would be dedicating her full affection and commitment faithfully only to you. 

At this moment I don't see that happening too much, and yet it seems like you are in a fairly good place and holding in there fairly well. If you can continue for a while, I say stay the course to a degree...and possibly begin to contemplate when YOU will be ready to have a cut off date. This would be in the future, when you are beginning to run low on love for your wife and you are ready to say that she need to also join in the marriage and end all contact with all other men...or you're ready to move on. This would be the "Dark & Silent" step that is before a separation or anything, but it is a period to let her know that if there is a divorce, she will no longer have the benefit of any of the needs you're meeting now. So maybe give that a thought and consider when you may be ready to move into that step (6 months maybe? ). 

And finally..just for fun...I'm starting the 200 situps program and the 100 pushups program. The initial test is tonight!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

Thanks for your input. I agree with your assessment. The counselor wasn't just hers she was our counselor and did individual sessions. And yes my w has some issues. Things that only she will have to come to terms with and might not ever. The sad thing for her is that she is doomed to repeat her issues in relationships until she does. I am her second husband. It fell apart because of "him", etc. from her point of view. Of course I never got his point of view.

And you are right I am meeting some needs for her now.

I haven't set a specific date but I;ve been thinking about that a lot. I will not allow this to go on indefinitely. And even during the time I allow it, I will continue to live my life.

The one thing I will say is that I'm not becoming the man I once was, but one who is better. Through this experience I discovered issues I didn't realize I had, ones that only surfaced during this last year or so, but which were obviously under the surface my whole life. I've faced them and continue to work to remove those from me. So I choose to say the new improved old me. Keep the good from the old me, jettison the bad from the old me, and create the new improved me.

Glad to hear you are starting the program. I've been at it now for almost 4 months. Six weeks -- yeah right. But I haven't quit. And my physical strength is as important to me now as my mental. As I grow physical strength I seem to gain more mental strength. It has become a part of me to do the work outs and I add other exercises on off days of the program.

I'm contemplating doing the P90x program. We'll see on that -- I'm doing the ab routine of it now which I like.

So good luck on your initial test tonight. I was so bad on that and when it hit me how out of shape I was in my upper body that motivated me. Let me know how you do.!!!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

OY I'd likely be embarrassed to tell you! LOL :lol: But a person has to start somewhere and I figure I'll just keep at it and keep at it steadily but slowly. It helps to have a place to log it! 

As to "where you're at"--honestly I think you have your head on straight, you're thinking clearly, you're being honest with yourself, you're own assessment of the situation seems "on target" and realistic--I honestly think you can trust yourself and your decisions. 

One option Tanelorn and I have found helpful is the Jung Myers-Briggs Personality Test. Often just being aware of the differences in your natural personality types makes communication and relationships a little easier to understand and negotiate.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

Never be embarrassed about that where you start. I was so down -- I could barely do any. So I started at ground zero. Now I'm doing Level 3 of Week 6 the second time this week. Hard to believe in 5 sets I do 220 pus now and that is just day 1 of week 6. So just keep going -- obviously this has been a loooonnnngggg six weeks for me. But more than anything it has gotten me into the routine of doing it, but is flexible enough one not to have excuses and two to do anywhere as long as you have a couple sheets of paper with you to tell you what to do.

Yes I've recently taken the test at TP's encouragement and have been reading about my personality. I don't know hers for sure but she tends to make decisions based on emotions (she took it years ago at work and told me that much), plus she has a little narcissism in her (can thank her dad for that), and she can hold a grudge (thanks again dad). His family is unbelievable -- his brother holds a 55 year grudge against his mother -- hasn't spoken to her, won't let her see his kids. Unbelievable. On her mother's side -- she is the emotional one. By the way -- her dad cheated on her mom multiple times and is one of many reasons her mother left him.

Enough on her -- i've got a work out to do and you've got a test. Glad to have you on board with that. How about TP?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I have plenty of toilet paper..thanks. LOL :lol: 

I will say this--I have personally witnessed some instances in which I'd say that the loyal did all they could and the loyal also felt peace and after consideration thought they had done all they could with a good conscience...and their disloyal just would not/could not come around. 

I do realize that some personality types get along easier and some are more difficult, and yet on the occasion just the awareness of where the difference lie can be helpful. I personally think that even polar opposites *could* choose to get along and stay faithful and loving if they were committed to doing so (and willing to constantly do the work to communicate rather than naturally "getting each other"). Not easy! But still...it can be done. 

I'll ask Tanelorn to post here and give his thoughts but I have to tell ya--I think they're somewhat similar to mine. At this point you could make life "less convenient" for her, but I don't think that's your style (nor would it necessarily do any good). I think the best I can figure is to periodically let her know out loud that you'd still be willing to work on a better marriage, but that at this point you would require TWO willing partners as just one doesn't cut it anymore. 

As to my initial test--alright I'll tell you what. I'll be brave and post them. I promise I will be embarrassed but maybe if someone sees I can do it and start, they'll be encouraged that anyone can do it! LOL :lol:


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't doubt TP's thoughts would be similar. I'm just trying to figure out how to point out to her she has issues to work on. Cause in the end she will never be happy in a relationship long term without resolving them. She has a fundamental trust issue stemming from an incident which if you want to know about it I'll PM but otherwise wouldn't post out here. 

She is getting a little pass from me on the "convenience" but if we divorce -- it is all on her for her wants/needs/etc. I'll be there to listen and care, but not resolve. If that happens that's not my job, my only job will be raising a good son and being involved in his life. Her choice -- her responsibility.

I've let her know I want her, hopefully she understands the difference between want and need. Big difference. If that leads anywhere, then it is working on her issues. I'm actually taking the advice of the counselor when she said -- just go and do some fun things together (when we were going together but she wasn't receptive when we did things -- her anger and resentment). If she is willing to do things with me and my son -- I'll showcase the new me to her. Cause I'm stronger than any other man she will attract. I was before, and I am again. Just the middle got muddled due to some of her issues, me not understanding how and why I should do things, and some outside factors. 

So I'll tell you on my initial test 4 push ups. I always could whip out 20 before the last year wore me down. So I started the program on Level 1, Week 1. So why worry. I think TP should join in too!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> I don't doubt TP's thoughts would be similar. I'm just trying to figure out how to point out to her she has issues to work on. Cause in the end she will never be happy in a relationship long term without resolving them. She has a fundamental trust issue stemming from an incident which if you want to know about it I'll PM but otherwise wouldn't post out here.


As you wish--you can PM or not. If you think it would be helpful that's cool, but if not, that's also cool. I trust ya. The main thing here, you ask: _"...how to point out to her she has issues to work on."_ I'll be honest and say that I don't believe there is a formula or "way" to tell someone they have issues to face in therapy and have them hear it, unless/until they are ready. What I mean is that you could say it perfectly and in a healthy, loving way but since she does not want to face it, she will not hear it. Long story short, she won't face it until the pain of ignoring it is more than the pain of facing it...and that may or may not ever happen. 

However, I do have a tool to help people ask for what they need--WTFS. That stands for: 

"*W*hen you...
I *T*hink...
I *F*eel....
*S*o I'm going to ask...."

and as an example in your instance you might use it to say: 
"When you distrust me due to issues that are your own that you won't face, and I'm innocent of your accusations...
I think that it disrespects me, crosses my boundaries of having a partner in life that trusts me, and blames me for your issues...
I feel frustrated, disappointed, and soul tired of trying to act in trustworthy way but never being trusted, and 
Soooo...I'm going to ask you to seek individual counseling to work on your trust issues." 

It can be one way to ask for it, but hey, there's no guarantee it will work. You'll be asking in a healthy way though!



> She is getting a little pass from me on the "convenience" but if we divorce -- it is all on her for her wants/needs/etc. I'll be there to listen and care, but not resolve. If that happens that's not my job, my only job will be raising a good son and being involved in his life. Her choice -- her responsibility.


Do you think she is aware that she's sitting on the fence and getting needs met by you and maybe other guys? Is it conscious, I mean? Or is she working by gut instinct? The reason I ask is that maybe as a somewhat interim step...each time she asks for something that's meeting a need, maybe you could think of a way to indicate you are meeting one of her needs. Like: "I would be happy to meet the need of getting your lawn mower started and I hope at some point you will begin to meet my needs too." The idea is maybe to help make her aware of how often she does turn to you to have needs met, to maybe make her aware of what she would stand to lose if there is a divorce, and maybe to plant the seed that she'll need to meet some of yours some day! 

My guess is that at this point she's working "on instinct" casting about everywhere to have needs met, using whoever she has to use. It may be eye-opening to both you and her if it were itemized how much she turns to you, what you can do for her, what she may lose if she doesn't start stepping up, etc. I bet both of you (she and you) will be surprised! 



> I've let her know I want her, hopefully she understands the difference between want and need. Big difference.


YEP! I want Tanelorn. I choose him every day. But the fact is, I don't need him. My life is just a whole lot better with him. 



> I'm actually taking the advice of the counselor when she said -- just go and do some fun things together (when we were going together but she wasn't receptive when we did things -- her anger and resentment). If she is willing to do things with me and my son -- I'll showcase the new me to her. Cause I'm stronger than any other man she will attract. I was before, and I am again. Just the middle got muddled due to some of her issues, me not understanding how and why I should do things, and some outside factors.


#1 Regarding the "fun"--this is actually more important than you know. Using the kindlers/extinguishers terminology...when you came together in the first place, a lot of the attraction may be physical but also was probably an association of you=fun or you=kindler. Once the association in someone's head becomes overwhelmingly you=extinguisher, then they start to avoid you and dislike you! So this is a wise plan, Feelingalone. Doing things that she associates FA=fun will start to bring back some positive association and hey let's face it...life is not all fun, but there is a LOT of fun to be had. 

#2 regarding the middle getting mucked up--well, yeah. People are human and it happens. You had the quality of character to live and grow from it, and that's cool. I have to admit I admire people who are imperfect and learn from their mistakes, so don't let that middle get ya too down. Hey--even I'm imperfect! :wink:



> So I'll tell you on my initial test 4 push ups. I always could whip out 20 before the last year wore me down. So I started the program on Level 1, Week 1. So why worry. I think TP should join in too!


I will convey your encouragement to Tanelorn to join the challenges too. Hey, maybe we can help encourage each other to do it! I'm just :rofl: thinking about it! 

Okay--next post is my initial test results!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Great post AC. I definitely like the WTFS, as well as framing my responses to requests as a need. Never thought of doing that. I think I will itemize that just to see.

And to answer your question -- I think instinct. Looking back she did it with me after her first husband and other guys she was dating. Then I wouldn't put up with it -- left her standing a couple of times after I discovered.

The PM would be about the incident which I think destroyed her trust in most people. It involved her father and a friend. Being that her father idolized her, put her on a pedestal and made his life revolve around (narcissistic tendencies most likely come from this) it probably destroyed her in some ways. When we first dated she felt obligated to she him, but never wanted to really. Over time that changed. 

ON the "fun" being kindlers I get that and see it is just nomenclature. 

On the middle -- I am now a lot more happy being perfectly imperfect and don't feel a gosh darn bit less of a person. If you can't tell I always tried to be "perfect". That I can blame on my mother, but she did her best --- I don't begrudge her. I've just tamed her.

Yes bring on TP. Both of you drop and give me 20!!!!!!!!!!!!! No just start and will grow over time. I'll encourage you and TP on. Everyone needs some exercise.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

The results are in! 

I am 48 years old and I did: 

20 situps ... and 30 pushups!  

According to the situp initial test, I'm in poor shape but I can do column 2 week 1. But for pushups--HOLY SMOKE! :yawn2: I guess I'm rank 4! I could start on week 3 but I think I'll do column 3 week 1 and just work my way up. 

I did ask Tanelorn to join and he said he didn't really want to of his own accord but he would if I asked him to. I think I'm going to let him join when he wants to, rather than asking....because. Maybe he'll see my amazing progress and want to join in! :rofl:


P.S. The program I'm doing is Two Hundred Sit-ups


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow AC -- 30! Holy crap. And you weren't going to post it -- good for you. I think after my initial test it said -- close the lid on the coffin!! LOL! 

Abs I'm good on and squats. I hate the squats -- they can really hurt. They've been promising the pull ups program for a couple of months -- but I just divided by four (the 25 versus the 100) and started on that. But those four exercises hit the "big" muscle groups -- so its a great start to working out. 

You should see the funky ab exercises for the P90x program -- one is affectionately called the "crunchy frog" -- it hurts.

I really enjoy both you and TP's insights and posts. I've saved your last one and printed to re-read a few times. I can be a little dense/takes a while to absorb and become natural in responses. I love the needs approach and will incorporate shortly.

So thank you for your time and TP's. It is wonderful to have people share their experiences and knowledge to others. 

I'm a hare in this race -- slow but steady. Patience is truly a virtue! And true love is patience and kindness.

I will be here cheering you on with the program. Maybe they should set up an exercise forum --- since it is an area that most that come here should incorporate into their life to take their minds off of their marital issues and just feel good about overcoming mental/physical obstacles.

Well off to sleep. I've got to chase Tiger Woods tomorrow so my son can get his autograph. Might actually get it since he is the new kind of approachable star. I got a great pic of my son and Anthony Kim on Monday -- but during the tournament no cameras allowed -- so won't have any pics.

Still amazed at 30 AC. Way to gooo!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

My little guy and I had a great time at the tournament today. We actually walked around the course this year. We saw Tiger a couple of times -- he had another bad day today and missed the cut -- so bye, bye. He wasn't in the mood to sign today. But my little man got three balls, and a couple gloves from other pros and some autographs. 

After the tournament he wanted to go hit balls on the range -- so we went and hit a bucket together. He likes that. I haven't gotten serious about showing him how to swing, but I think he is now at the point to do so. So maybe I'll get him a half decent set of clubs and start working with him. 

I hadn't hit balls in a long time -- used to play a lot before him. But had put the sticks in the attic when my w got pregnant. Before that I always hit the range a couple nights a week and played 36 to 54 holes a week. Seemed unfair at the time for me to leave for 6 hours on a Saturday or Sunday to play when she took care of him while I was at work Mon - Fri. 

And I've replaced golf with soccer which I really enjoy and lets be honest gives me a lot more exercise. Now maybe do both.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

May 2nd, 2010: 

100 pushups--Day1 Column 3. I did four sets of 10-12-7-7 and then my max of 20. Whew!

200 situps--Day 1, Column 2! I did four set: 9-9-6-6 and then my last set I did 10. 

Note to self: Pulse count of 74 (exactly) equals 60 seconds while I'm doing the situps and pushups. 

So it has begun! LOL


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Way to go Affaircare. 

Yesterday was a pretty good day. Started out with my workout routine. Finished that up ate lunch and on to OFFL soccer game. Good turn out of friends. Played for 2 hours. Took a break and then first sand volleyball of the year. Felt good to get sand in the toes again. Then did some painting with friends at the pool clubhouse. Full day.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I forgot to mention that Sunday while taking a break from painting I snagged a glove and autograph for my son from Davis Love III. He and his family along with other pros and caddies park their RVs during the tournament at the pool in my friends neighborhood.

I came out to get some fresh air and there he was -- getting ready to leave. He was very nice to take the time out to do that for me. So a big thank you to Davis cause my son loved it when I gave it to him last night at dinner.

Now he's got a lot of stuff from last years and this years. And yes he did get Rory's autograph -- the young golfer who won the tournament. He loved that too. I just can't figure out which one it was on his hat. 

AC, how you feeling after the first day? Keep it up you can do it.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Yesterday Tanelorn and I did a walk together for some exercise. We talked while we walked, so I know we had the breath and stamina to do it. Our thought is to do situps/pushups one day and a walk on the opposite days...Sundays off. Now, Feelingalone, I need to tell you that I am *NOT* an exercising kind of gal. I am a little hobbit of a woman, pleasingly plump and happy with the curves I have at my age...but this is a program I can live with and it hasn't been too hard to integrate into my "everyday" lifestyle. So I'm feeling pretty hopeful and logging workouts as I do them.

I have a question for you, FeelingAlone. At this point, what is keeping you and your wife apart? I mean, she initially left because she was having an affair--that one ended and she sort of, partially started another one (a little) but that also went nowhere--so what are her reasons now why she is not returning to her marriage? I'm just curious because for the life of me, it seems like your situation spins and spins, you do better, but she's sort of just "sitting there for no apparent reason" and that makes no sense. I can't help but think that something MUST be up somewhere, and I don't mean another affair per se--but rather she would come home if the pain of staying away was greater than the pain of returning and working on it. What is the roadblock here???


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I believe it is her "resentment" and anger towards me. When we were talking on the phone that day about what the idiot said to her about me bribing him for info on her to take our son away, she said a couple of times about being unstable and the "why, why did it take this to wake you up" . I believe that is it in a nutshell. Once a long time ago she said "you took a year from life I feel like punishing you the same way" 

Of course this is blaming me totally for the downfall of the marriage. And as you know I've acknowledged my part, but I don't think she even thinks she had a part in it at all. I don't know.

But as I've said her father's side of the family can hold a grudge and I believe that is it -- a grudge because "I did this to her" thing. I think only now that the "fog" is lifting that there might be hope. 

I realized while with the counselor that no matter what I was doing last year -- her anger wouldn't her accept my changes were real -- I could have done everything absolutely perfectly to win her back but she is the obstacle.

Other than that I don't know. Like I said that conversation on the phone was the first real communication about things other than regarding our son that we've had in a long time. That is why I've sent letters to start to bridge that gap.

Oh well. That's all I got.

And that is what I like about the program -- it seems so easy to work in and do it for your own pace.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

So I don't know her reasons AC. I just don't know.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I think she hardened her heart soo much -- she won't allow her pride to thaw it and change "her" decision. Maybe I haven't done enough. Maybe now I'm too guarded. Who knows.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

OK a couple things on my mind today. Obviously this Sunday is Mother's day and I will send a card from myself and make sure my son gives her something. We actually made something for her last Saturday at the Home Depot kids morning (for those with lil ones that don't know the first Sat of every month there is a workshop to build things for kids) which was a flower planter holder and planter. 

So I've got that covered and feel comfortable with what I'm doing there. Here is the thing. Our anniversary is May 18th and I'm not sure about that at all. Any suggestions are welcome. I just don't know what I will do.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If one of the partners is still interested in keeping a balance sheet, forgiveness and moving forward are pretty tough to do.

There comes a point where it no longer much matters what anybody _did_. It is about what you are willing to _do_ moving forward.

It has been pointed out on the forums a number of times, and ultimately it becomes evident one way or the other, that your spouse has hit the pain threshold to reconsider their position.

The greater your commitment to the 'blackout' phase, usually the quicker threshold will come. Threshold doesn't actually have be a negative thing either. 

My spouse discovered that she was far more capable than she believed. My not being around to cart kids, do shopping, kill spiders, take out trash, shovel snow, pay bills, deal with unforeseen crises meant that she resented me like hell out of the gate, but ultimately, she actually felt _better_ about herself.

In her case, she needed to feel stronger personally to even consider reconciliation. She said to me when we were talking the other night; "I don't need you. I don't need anyone." I smiled and said "Good. Because I don't want you to need me. I want you to choose me."

We are at a place where neither of us feels like we have anything to lose. Her efforts at reconciliation previously in my opinion were half-assed. There was no commitment. There was no acknowledgment of completely letting go of TOM, to even give us the opportunity to determine if we could work it out.

Just roll with it FA. But, with one caveat ... roll with it as long as it isn't costing you a great deal emotionally. 

In our case, we are utterly and completely starting over. The benefit we both feel is that we know we'll be fine if it doesn't work.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Deejo,

Good to hear from you. And thanks. I am ok. Heck I needed the "black out" as much as she did to work on me. Now I much better and it is time to stake out what I want in life. That is what I'm working on -- what I want. Some times I believe that she is in my plan and some times I don't. I just know I will be happy whether with her or not.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Another day. Had lunch with my son at school. Love that cafeteria food. LOL. Saw a bunch of kids from the baseball team. We have a game tonight. Playing the only undefeated team in the league. Prior to having dinner with my w, my son and my parents.

Lunch on Tuesday with the w. I asked -- she accepted. I've been more proactive with her since the phone conversation of 2 weeks ago. I'm not pursuing her, just feeling things out, adding to our communication, taking baby steps. Probably won't lead to anything, but we will see.

I'm just going to have fun and keep moving positively forward.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well had dinner last night with w, son and my parents. It was the first sit down together for a long, long time. I was nervous, but maintained my calm, confident demeanor throughout. She seemed to vacilate between being relaxed and defensive (crossed-arms at times). Conversation was light. Nothing big. A step.

Got another game this evening. Right now I'm not looking forward to Tuesday. She still seems so guarded, untrusting. I think in the end that is it -- she just doesn't trust me. And still harbors anger towards me. I can't rid her of her anger -- only she can. I can't make her trust me -- that is one of her issues. I can only be me, perfectly imperfect but trying to be the best I can be.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

So what's with the distrust? Ironic... I've been going through the same thing since the beginning. Not saying she 'doesn't care', but if she did, wouldn't the 'disloyal' spouse be better served trying to prove _her_ worthiness? Is turning it around just a distraction? Do they expect us to have lost our morals as a result of their infidelity? To 'pay them back'? I suppose it might be a sign of renewed interest? (in a round-about way) testing to see if _we_ are still worth the effort... If she realy didn't care, she wouldn't, right? hmmm... 
Btw, quote for your wife: "To carry a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee" grudges are a waste of life....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

Trusting, totally trusting someone is one of her biggest issues. There is some fundamental trust issue she has, based on at least one very traumatic experience in her life whereby she lost trust in men and most female friends. No, nothing I did. 

So she is waiting for people to break her "trust" -- aka a self fulfilling prophecy -- she expects it to happen so eventually it happens of course since she sets it up. This doesn't come from my observation originally, but my brothers. It was eye opening to say the least -- counselor pretty much confirmed it. So she is doomed to repeat over and over again. She did with Husband #1 -- "he didn't do what I wanted when I wanted" so it is there. 

But I can look beyond that and see what she is capable of being. But is it worth it to try -- I can't show her her weaknesses, only she can. Just like she couldn't show me mine -- I had to do the painful self realization and start correcting.

In the end I can only be a strong man. By the way another good book Hynd is Being the Strong Man a Woman Wants -- by Elliot Katz. Really explains it -- at least for me -- all the concepts and ideas people were telling me. It just brought it together so well for me. It isn't a step-by-step guide but explains why being certain ways is important. After understanding that for me -- the doing becomes easier even without steps.

By the way -- super congrats on your exercising prowess. You've eclipsed me. I hate to "run" just to "run". Run playing soccer -- yes. Run playing football -- yes. Run to run -- just bores me. I can do it just don't like it. When I get some more scratch together either a mountain bike or road bike for me. I used to put 140 miles a week in on a road bike -- a while ago. Lost track of that over time -- family, etc. Ya know how it is -- ya lose track.

So Hynd riddle me this, who are you, and who do you envision will join you? I'm still working on this myself.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Interesting. My Ws trust issues were likely 'bred' into her at an early age through the dysfunctional family she grew up in which distrust/jealousy/abuse were the norm. I think in an attempt to prove otherwise I ended up being too trusting myself...setting the example so to speak. Ha.
Has your W been confronted with her issues, or would she be too stubborn to listen? Obviously she would have to make the leap for herself, but sometimes a diplomatic nudge from the right person can make all the difference.



> who are you, and who do you envision will join you?


Good question, one that I ask myself daily!
I don't realy have a very clear answer yet, just a mental outline with some of the more important limitations and goals. Im sure there will be some white-out in the end, but I would like to think that the voids will be filled with meaning and substance. Shel Silverstien wrote a verse about a man who was offered a wish, and with it he wished for 2 more...etc etc, until "one Thursday night they found him dead, with all his wishes piled around him. And they counted the lot and found that not a single one was missing" The old "life is too short" line, but this one realy grabbed me. I am a work in progress, taking things in stride, rolling with the punches. optimistic. Because life_ is _short and it _is_ what you make it. Who will join me (someday)? Someone who _chooses_ to _compliment_ me.....someone who will honestly appreciate and respect who I become. All I've got for now....

Thanks for the encouragement FA! I certainly wouldn't say I have 'eclipsed' you; I pretty much gave up on the 200PU program...the abs were killing me. I always felt the same as you about running, but I knew it was the best thing I could do for myself, and it fit my budget and schedule. The 'belt' was excruciatingly boring, but living in such a beautiful part of the country makes running outside a pleasure. Another thing I'm getting out of it is being around people who are ambitious, goal oriented, and optimistic; some things that were severly lacking in my social circle.

Hey, just noticed the edited signature, is that a sign of forgiveness?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

Yes it is a sign of forgiveness. I've pretty much forgiven myself -- that was hard. And I've let go of my anger at her -- just a waste of time. Yes being around people with a positive outlook is good. 

That is why I like my sunday soccer games -- people having fun, enjoying the outdoors and happy. Good environment. Also why I like coaching the kids in baseball. They are just having fun.

Game went well last night -- our boys won. Good hitting and pretty good fielding. I had a real teachable moment during this game. One of our players taunted the other team while running from 3rd to home -- we were up by 8 runs. Disgusted me -- i stopped the game and made him go over to the other coach and his players and apologize for that. Afterward that his father got my attention and thanked me for doing that. And after the game -- most of the other parents thanked me as well. I was surprised -- but these are the days that you need to teach sportsmanship.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Forgiveness is powerfull. I want to, and I will, I'm just not quite there yet; it's hard when there is still fuel being added to the fire. 

I have one boy in T-ball and one in farm league; sportsmanship is a big deal. Sure is frustrating when when you meet with other coaches/parents who have different oppinions....but fortunately most will appreciate the lesson. It can be difficult for this age group to understand 'healthy' competitiveness, but honestly I think alot of that lies in the parenting.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

It took a long time for me to get rid of my anger and begin forgiveness. And you are right -- tough when fuel is added to the fire. Exercising is where it started for me. The stronger physically I became, the stronger emotionally. BigBadWolf, Deejo, and Atholk really helped and those darn books. 

I still have my bad days, but I'm better every day. Heck if you can believe it I just got finished making a cake with my son for mother's day. She loves cake -- and what the hey making something is better than just buying something. Just a nice gesture.

Speaking of working out -- I've got one to do. Oh and I'm getting involved with a non-denominational church in my area that is about community service. They do a lot for the community and just do things like put together soccer teams for their members. So very active group. Nice people.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

So had asked w to lunch which was set for today. I was confirming lunch and she responded with a I forgot it was so and so's birthday lunch today and can we switch to Thursday. I responded sure, but I guess you'll be buying. LOL. Nice your so supportive of friends. Have fun.

So we will see what happens. I wasn't sure I even wanted to this morning. But I don't know. Just keep moving forward.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well today we are supposed to have lunch. When picking up my son last night she was like are we still on for tomorrow and the place we talked about. I said yes. No real smiles from her. I said "its good to see ya". Her body language seems timid and her voice was soft.

I'm not sure what this will mean in the scheme of things. I've told her what I want. A want is not a need. We will see.


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

Good luck with everything, i hope it works out for you.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

stbxhmaybe,

Thanks. At this point it doesn't really matter. No matter which way it goes "it will work out" for me.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well that was one interesting lunch -- that is for sure.


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

why?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

stbxhmaybe,

It was interesting because I learned a lot about where my w's mind is at. First as I've said -- a long time ago on my thread -- my w is stubborn and holds grudges. In her mind she made a decision to proceed to divorce and she still is of that mindset. She is still rooted in the past. Still of the why could you do things. But she said some things that finally tell me that she is starting to look within herself as well. She said she forgives me. That maybe she just needs to be single -- and she's ok with that. That she is just focusing on being the mother to our son. (These statements lead me to believe she is starting to reflect on herself)

She actually said you've been so nice the last month or so -- almost too nice -- she was suspicious. Why weren't you like that for the 6 or 8 months before that. I said I have no hidden agenda. I had to deal with my issues -- figure out why I was doing the things I did and start correcting them. I'm just improving and in a better place -- before I was so angry. And I said you did and said some hurtful things (I told her I wasn't blaming her -- just stating fact). 

I just kept reiterating that I can't live in the past -- I've got to live in the present and future. She pointed things out I did and I said yes I did those things. I said there is no magic bullet or anything to remove the past -- I did it I own up to it and I'm correcting it.

She was like I can't go back to that. I said neither can I. I don't want to go back there. She was like well before we could even start to work on things we have to finish up the divorce and clean the slate. That she needs to be relaxed and for us to be able to talk and she is finally getting relaxed and at ease. [Yes I know weird statements].

Realize what I've written is a quick summary, paraphrased and out of order. Throughout this conversation I was calm, cool and collected. I maintained eye contact the entire time -- I didn't look away I didn't look down. Her body language was somewhat defensive -- not overly defensive though.

The funny thing was I never intended to "talk about the relationship" because I'm just trying to create some positive and fun times between us. As Affaircare would say love kindlers. But this is what she wanted. So I gave it to her. I guess this is what she has been waiting for -- but I wasn't ready until now to give it to her. I had to work on me first to be able to work on the relationship. 

No I didn't beg her or plead blah, blah, blah. I just took it all in in stride. At the end I even asked if there was anything I could do for her in the afternoon. 

Ok I hadn't said this before on my thread but I started the love dare a few weeks ago. After the call from her about the stalker guy. And I've been trying to finish Day 11 -- do something of need for your spouse. So I asked. Have before. She said there wasn't anything. 

So very interesting and enlightening conversation. And yes I know where her mind is at -- and I'm ok with that. I'm not stopping the Love Dare because I realize it is more about me than us. It is teaching me to really understand what love is truly all about.

Is what I've been doing for the last while -- showing her the new me -- a strong man who is maintaining his compassion -- being recognized by her -- yes. It clearly is having an effect on her. Now it is consistency of action. 

Do I hope to reconcile -- yes I do. Is she the center of my universe -- no and neither is reconciliation. For some strange reason I feel peaceful. 

So that is why I said interesting.


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

In my opinion your experience was good. You know why? it shows that you are at peace with yourself. I understand you because I feel the same, even if we realized how wrong we were in the past, we are not stuck with that attitude. Separation has been a great wake up call for me, I have gone to counseling, read books, reflected a lot, started running (I have dropped like 8-9 pounds) and those endorphins are great! I can say I am starting to see life differently. Yes, I am sad but not hopeless, just like you are. Great for us!

It is weird that you mention the love dare, I started it about 3 weeks ago. I have been interested in her, I tried calling and showing care but it seems she is not ready, or don't even know if she has given up on our relationship. She hasn't mentioned anything about divorce because the last time we spoke about 3 weeks ago she said she was not ready for either divorcing or reconciling. 

I am just keeping in contact through email, I called her 2 weeks ago and she didn't pick up. A couple of days later she sent me an email saying that the whole calling thing was not ok with her right now, but she wrote what she was doing and she was ok. 

I also feel at peace feelingalone, I guess that nick doesn't suit you anymore


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It may not suit me any more stbxymaybe, but it is a part of me. LOL.

Well had a great night with my son. Had a baseball game last night. My little guy batted a thousand. So proud of him. It was a nail biter tied up going into the last inning. Then we pulled ahead by 4 and held them off in the bottom of the last inning. 

After the game it was a mad dash (really we were running) across the park to be with friends and watch a movie in the park with friends. Night at the Museum 2 was on. Enjoyed some time with people. It was a nice evening to enjoy the movie.

Today I think he and I will hit the amusement park nearby -- I haven't been yet this year. Season passes are a great thing. Tonight I'm hitting a pool party with friends (unless I just need to go to bed early).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well had a great day Saturday at the amusement park. It was crowded but still had fun with my boy.

Had a good time at the pool party. A little midnight sand volleyball, then haning out and singing along with a couple guys playing the guitar. 

Hit Sunday afternoon soccer with the rest of the old fart football leaguers. Yes we are the OFFL. Good time. 

Well tomorrow is my 8th wedding anniversary. Don't know if I should do anything or not. I'm thinking just a plain card with a note in it acknowledging just to have a great May 18th.

Or I came up with this lil diddy. "We made it to eight, aint that great, won't be a nine, and that's just fine." Anyone?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Happy Anniversary to Me. My last one I believe. 

I did give her a card. When I picked up my son where she works -- part time morning and she teaches a couple of classes at night she wasn't there yet. And I had the card, so I slipped it under the door. 

Just a card with a note in it -- nothing about anniversary. Just have a great May 18th. And said lets have coffee -- since it seemed she wanted to talk more at lunch but we ran out of time.

I think like someone suggested to me -- she wants to just vent, rant and rage about what "I did". Oh well.

So this morning I get an e-mail from her asking me not to leave anything at her work place. that she feels I'm not repsecting her privacy there -- Yes I did leave a card there a month or so ago -- but that is it. And just got all harsh about this and that.

I just said agreed. I'm putting your preference first.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Don't quit your day job FA, leave the ditty's to the pros!

Happy 18th, (my first day in court). 

I was reading about your lunch date, and I just had to say that I can actually relate somehow to how your W feels. For different reasons I am sure, but I just feel like the 'marriage' is something of a distraction. I need to focus on the future and while that is still in play it seems to offer some false hope that we might just wake up from a dream someday and things will be back to normal again. I actualy feel like our relationship will improve when all is settled. I know it's all psychological, but I just feel like it will be easier to face her when she is not my 'wife'......


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

Good to hear from you. No I guess Hallmark won't be knocking on my door anytime soon. LOL. 

In a weird way I think that is how she deals with things. Chapter closed and now I can think about it. I don't know. I find it interesting she is so ready, but still haven't received her comments on the separation agreement -- and I've asked for hers. I'm about done with mine. Heck the last time she mentioned it was a long time ago and I'm like yeah i've read it a bunch -- and she was like I haven't even looked at it.

Weird. I just keep moving forward. The more I improve, the more I question at times exactly why I'm fighting for the marriage. But that is natural isn't it. It starts with the one spouse saying things, becoming a disloyal, the other works on themselves gets nothing back and starts building up resentment of their own. A vicious cycle. I'm not building up resentment, just realizing her issues.

Maybe she has to hit rock bottom first.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well the weekend is almost upon us. Son has a baseball game tonight and tomorrow morning -- hope he and the rest of the team hit well and have fun. I always enjoy coaching them. 

Then tomorrow night taking my son to the AAA team game nearby. It's little league night. There are about 5 - 10 leagues coming. They get to walk on the field and be recognized. Was a lot of fun last year. Always fireworks after a night game on Saturdays. Will be a late one but good nonetheless.

Then Sunday afternoon soccer with my friends, and maybe a dip in the pool afterwards.

I'm continuing on with the Love Dare. Some days are difficult given our situation. But I'm learning a new thought process.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Great weekend so far. First game 6-0 win. Second game 8-0 win. Then the AAA game went 13 innings with the home team winning on a home run. Long night but fun with the kids.

My lil guy fell asleep in the car within 5 minutes of leaving. 

Tomorrow soccer, pool and sand volleyball. Fun times.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sunday was a great day. My son slept in -- I love to watch him when he's a sleep. So peaceful.

Got up did my work out. Got my lil guy moving -- breakfast then a quick lunch and off to a day outside. We went to soccer. Played a fun game of 10 on 10. Kids played in the creek near by. It was hot, but fun. Then off to the pool for a few hourse with some sand vollyeball mixed in. 

Getting texts from w -- she went out of town again for a mountain bike race. Her car sprung an oil leak on the way home. Oh well, not my issue any more. I showed concern for her safety -- which I did have for her. She is my son's mother after all, but nothing more than that.

Anyway got our last official baseball game tonight -- weather permitting. 

Looking forward to a friends crawfish boil this Saturday. He and his wife are from New Orleans and this is their 7th annual. Lots of fun for adults and kids. They do it up right. Even have bouncy houses for the kids and arts projects. It will make for a great Saturday night. My son will be with me and we are going to stay over at a friends that night. 

I just keep trucking along. Learning something new every day. 

Keep the faith people. Your life will improve!

Peace.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Every post I can read/feel an improvement! 

You are doing so well...FA. I am so glad that you are feeling a positive vibe! Well deserved and hard fought!

I totally respect you FA! Rock On!


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

I think exactly the same about you man,

When you mention that it doesn't matter if you guys reconcile it's kind of what I am starting to feel. NOT because I don't want reconcile or because I don't love my wife but because I know that the changes I am and will be applying to my life will last forever even if we end up divorcing. 

This experience has been in a weird kind of way very helpful. I look back to the man I used to be 2 months ago, and it's not me, I am not saying that I have changed but the man I used to be 2 months ago wasn't me. I grew angry, frustrated, mean because of our relationship, work, and personal issues and I wasn't like that before, she didn't fall in love with that person. Besides becoming the man I used to be, I am realizing many more things that I wasn't aware of. 

There is specially one book that has taught me so much, 

Anger by Thich Nhat Hanh

I live my life mindfully now, what does that mean? I think about what's going on around me, instead of just living life out of instinct, reacting as things happen without thinking


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW, thanks -- I'm just following your lead! Good to hear from ya. Hope all is well.

We got the game in but we lost. Our bats were just dead last night. Oh well still made some great plays in the field. Kids had fun. 

Watched a good buddies 7 on 7 soccer game afterward. Might join in on one of those teams the next go around for that league.

stbxhmaybe, yes you have the same thought as I do. I'd love to reconcile, but if it doesn't happen oh well the improved me will have a good life no matter what. Cause its up to me and no one else to do it.

I'm still doing the Love Dare. There are a couple days I haven't been able to complete. But when the opportunity presents itself I will be ready to complete those. It is a humbling experience, but so far a rewarding journey. I'm learning a lot about myself.

Keep the faith!

Peace.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't know if you know, but I put out one Love Dare day each day on my Twitter--walking people through each one of the 40 days then starting over. The way I see it, the Love Dare is ongoing...the Love Kindlers are ongoing...and one romantic thing a day is ongoing. I'm not the world's biggest romantic or super creative...so I go to Lovingyou.com and look at their romance calendar for an idea.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I didn't know that. Yes I see how it is -- there are days from early on that I now seem to be in the habit of just doing every day. And then others aren't necessarily day-to-day but once a week or once a month type things. It makes sense -- and gives you a guide/schedule so you don't fall back into the "bad" routine of doing nothing.

Still doing the push ups?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well should be a nice weekend coming up. Picking up my lil guy from school in a few hours and then on to the amusement park with friends and their kids. 

Tomorrow probably mess around most of the day. Lil guy and I are going to make brownies -- hope we don't burn them (never made brownies) -- for the craw fish boil and then off to the boil. Staying over at friends afterward and then a full day of soccer, pool, and sun. 

Should be a great time.

I just keep trucking along. Yes I still do the Dare.


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## needmygirl (May 13, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I don't know if you know, but I put out one Love Dare day each day on my Twitter--walking people through each one of the 40 days then starting over. The way I see it, the Love Dare is ongoing...the Love Kindlers are ongoing...and one romantic thing a day is ongoing. I'm not the world's biggest romantic or super creative...so I go to Lovingyou.com and look at their romance calendar for an idea.


What is your twitter? I will be sure to follow you so that later on, once I work on myself and if I can save my marriage I will steal some of your ideas. lol. 

No really I need all the help I can get.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well had a couple of really great days with my boy. Crawfish boil on Saturday night was fun -- lots of great food, adult beverages, good conversation, games of corn hole. Kids had awesome time on the bouncie house, trampoline and arts projects. 

Sunday was a great day of soccer, pool and sand volleyball. Again great people, good conversations and just enjoyment of all I do have in my life.

Today its raining. I miss my little guy........


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

A tough couple of days for some reason. Some times I feel like I go through the stages of loss over and over again. Well with the exception of rationalization/bargaining and anger. There is light at the end of the tunnel -- divorce. It's coming soon, I can see it over the horizon now. As Agent Smith said in the Matrix: "Do you hear that Misster Annnderson? Its the sound of inevitability" Its probably what has me down.

I just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Peace.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

You know, Feelingalone, one important aspect of ending a love relationship is grieving your various losses of love. There is a connection between overcoming denial, grieving, and disentangling from the former love partner.

I don't get the sense that you are in denial, and yet in your case that could maybe be reworded to "giving up hope"...that hope that maybe, just maybe, she'll come around and care enough to look at herself and do the work. Some kernel of you still hopes she'll recognize her issues and realize that if she doesn't address them, she'll just keep repeating this pattern over and over. Letting go of that very last piece of hope...that JUST MAYBE it will work out just before the ink dries...is a tough piece to release. 

I think these down days may be your very last round of trying to unravel, extricate and disconnect all the little webs that connected you and your soon-to-be-ex. With every round of disentanglement--every time to cut more and more of the ties that bind--there is going to be a sense of loss and a feeling of grief.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I've thought that as well. Nice to hear someone else say it. You are right -- that is most likely what it is right now. Its really sad -- for I'm becoming the man I should have been and she won't reap the benefits. Ironic isn't it?

I need help understanding the difference between needs and wants on her part. Where does the parental line end and her "needs" begin? I'm not looking to be an [email protected]#hole, but then again she has to live with the consequences of her actions. I need a little guidance.

And are you still doing the push up program? If not drop and give me 40 -- cause I know you can!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

FA:

I did like Affaircare post on the last kernel of hope. I had it the day of....it's natural for us who wanted/want to preserve a marriage.

The parental line..good question. It's sticky: if she gets a flat tire and H is in the car. Do you help? You could help her fix the flat. You would pick up H and transport him to the event or your house. What do you feel comfortable doing? I don't think there is a right or wrong.

However, if her washing machine is broken. Do you fix it or pay for someone to fix it? I would say "no. " H's clothes can be cleaned at your place or a laundry.

I called my ex one day, when my battery died at the house. He was driving by and gave me a jump. I had my daugher in the car. Otherwise, I wouldn't have called. That is the only time. 

These last few months, in my opinion, were difficult (pre-divorce). It's the hope; reality; etc. that keep coming forth.

You are a strong man..it will get better.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW. Yes it will be difficult. We had our last baseball game and then a team party last night. My stbx w was at the game and came late to the team party -- after a shower. What was up with that the rest of us just went straight to -- sweat and all. It is weird in those situations. I just treated her nicely and like she was just another one of the mothers.

Anyway it was a good time. Kids had a lot of fun. Handed out trophies and we put together stats for all the kids. My lil guy hit .657 for the season. We get balls for the kids and have the entire team sign each one. They like that.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well haven't posted for a few days.

Had a pretty good weekend with H my lil guy. Had him Saturday night. Ran a couple quick errands, ate dinner and watched a movie together -- twice. Got up and watched it again in the am. Boy he loved that movie -- "The Spy Next Door". Did a science experiment -- we grew some crystals. Then lunch and off for a day outdoors of soccer, pool and volleyball. 

I myself am decorated with a nice purple and black eye from volleyball. Ouch!!

Dropped my little guy off to w. While doing this he mentioned that he didn't play soccer but went to the pool with his friends directly. This was true -- his friends mother usually plays but didn't and took her kids and H to the pool. She made a weird statement about if he's being watched by someone for 2 hours I needed to let her know. This is true according to our yet to be signed separation agreement. And I said it wasn't two hours. She smiled and said I didn't say anything bad. I was like whatever and left. 

That statement really got to me since I haven't really enforced it with her. I know she was trying to get my goat and get a reaction out of me. She did -- but didn't see it. I just ignored it after a while. 

Oh well. The end gets nearer every day. Her loss, not mine.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Don't let it get to you FA. My stbx is always pulling little things like that and at times it can be infuriating, but like you did, best not to let her see it. I think she is realizing that she is no longer in control, ("her loss"). Where once she was a 'needed' part of the family, now she sees that I can not only take care of myself, but the kids too, and without her. Her instinct is to insert herself unnecesarily as a way to prove her importance. These things will sort themselfs out in time, until then, continue to walk the high road, and keep your one good eye to the sky for them volleyballs


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

Actually it wasn't a ball that got me it was a knee. But I might be playing tonight and will keep the one good eye I have to the sky.

Yes, I realize this was a test for a reaction. I just don't really care anymore. I am just concerned with me and my son right now. She is getting lower and lower on the totem pole for me. She is just the mother of my child and nothing more.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Had a pretty good weekend with my lil guy. I had him Friday night. We did a quick trip to the amusement park Friday night -- hot but short lines. Got to ride a lot of coasters with him -- he loves coasters. Last ride of the night was the Roaring Rapids -- and of course I'm the one that got absolutely soaked. But we had fun.

Got home and he and I did Wii Fit games together, then on to bed. It was a hot one Saturday and we did a lot of Wii Fit games in the morning and then a little slip and sliding outside. Then relax time and then his mother picked him up. 

He's gone on vacation this week with his mother. I know we talk on the phone -- but not being able to see him and give him a hug hurts. I miss him.......


Peace.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Now here is something funny. My stbx W has our son for vacation this week. She's going to the beach with him, her mom, step-dad, and her grandmother. Only thing is she got called for and selected for jury duty. Since she was going away she had put her car in the shop today for the next couple of days. 

So her mom took our son to the beach (I'm ok with that trust her one hundred percent) and she is stuck with jury duty with no car. Kind of funny in a cosmic irony sort of thing.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I wouldn't say it's the karma bus backing over her, but maybe a small karma bus speedbump...yes.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes a little bad karma for her, and good karma for me. I was struggling to complete a dare from the Love Dare and this presented an opporutnity to do so which I did without thought or hesitation.

I'm just glad my lil guy is enjoying the beach with his grandma and great grandmother. And happy for great grandmother since her husband passed away not just a month or so ago. I had a nice chat with her last evening when I called to talk to my lil guy. I hope he enjoys and relishes his time with her -- that is priceless for him and her.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Oh AC, on a sad note could you please send me the 7 steps of stopping an affair. The link on your website isn't working and unfortunately a friend of mine needs them. There are other issues in his situation. 

I pray for him, for her and their kids.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

For a long time I haven't been able to understand why even after I've made the changes I needed and more for myself and for my stbx W, why she hasn't seen them.

And then today I was reading a couple posts by Tanelornpete to some other people. One was to a disloyal where in he said

"Again, I'd remind you that you are still having an affair; and as such are using all the classic phrasing and justifications that pretty much define the 'script': 

Never had a common interest
Never did anything together (one wonders how the marriage happened...)
Too busy, no time for a relationship (with each other...)

Finally, it isn't the past that determines the future, except for physical changes: it is one's perceptions, interpretations and interpolations of the past that determine the future - changing your mind about the past changes how you act in the future. The past is gone, it can't change. How you view your husband today is a direct and deliberate choice - and you use the past to justify the conclusions you come up with (we all do that.) In other words, the entire thing is intellectual: you choose to think certain thoughts about your husband, and refuse to think others. Since that's gone on a long time, it's become a habit, done without conscious deliberation. You've determined your course...so to speak...regardless of your husband being in the equation at all."


She is still stuck with her created image of me -- part truth to the way I was at times, grossly exagerated in other areas toward the negative, and nothing granted for my positive aspects. She still views me that way even when the product before her isn't that.

This is my answer. Not that it matters, it just helps understanding things.

Too bad for her -- her loss.

Peace.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well a tough week not seeing my son. I talked to him on the phone, but still I miss giving him hugs and yes even his occassional whining. At least I'll see him tomorrow. I can't wait!

He's been the greatest gift of my life!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

I find my stbx w seemingly more and more distant recently. Ever since I forgave her as part of the Love Dare she seems unable to look me in the eye for hardly any time. In correspondence via e-mail she shows no emotion or reach for any just banter.

I'm always upbeat -- at least on the outside around her. Try to keep a smile on my face and greet and leave her with positive comments. Not much in return. Oh well.

After not seeing my son for almost a week I had him Saturday night and Sunday. We went roller skating Saturday night and then got up and played Wii fit and Monopoly. Then on to outdoor activities of soccer and pool with friends. All in all it was a great father's day. My first as a "single" person.

As much as I try to enjoy things however, in the back of my mind I feel like I'm getting ripped off by not being with my son every day. To put it bluntly -- it sucks. I know my situation could be a lot worse compared to a lot of others on here. But it still sucks.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes it does but b/c in all honesty it shouldn't have to be this way. But your son loves you and knows, knows that you love him. Already, you and him have what some others don't and that is a very special bond. You are doing wonderful FA and your a great dad!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ash,

Great to hear from you. Been wondering how you are doing? Any updates on your sperm donor? School? Social life? Etc., etc.

You still running? The snow is all melted now so no excuses. As for me still doing the push ups, abs, squats and now pull ups and chin ups. Joined an adult soccer league. Played in my first organized game of soccer this past Tuesday evening. It was hot, but a lot of fun. We won -- but that doesn't matter to me. I'm still just learning the game compared to a lot of the people I play with. But they keep me around anyway.

Heck I've even started doing Yoga. I can't believe how inflexible certain parts of my body really are. 

Yes my son and I have a special bond. It is funny, the other day I realized something. See since I don't have him every day -- doing his homework with him (no I never give answers only try to help teach him how to learn himself) is not a chore to me, its special. If I was with him all the time it would become a chore since it is a daily thing. Too bad we lose track of how special those things really are when we are with someone all the time -- that it is special. To my stbx w its a chore -- to me a privilege. And that is probably a lot of spouses -- it is a privilege and special and not a chore.

I guess that is the silver lining. Right now he and I have a game of monopoly going that is over 4 hours long. We'll pick it up tonight.

Let us know how your life is going. I'm confident it is on the upward swing!!!


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> I find my stbx w seemingly more and more distant recently. Ever since I forgave her as part of the Love Dare she seems unable to look me in the eye for hardly any time. *In correspondence via e-mail she shows no emotion or reach for any just banter*.
> 
> I'm always upbeat -- at least on the outside around her. Try to keep a smile on my face and greet and leave her with positive comments. Not much in return. Oh well.


Same thing happens to me, and I am behaving the same way upbeat and kind even with matters related to the divorce, weird enough thanks to the Love Dare as well 

She is numb, even if we know this is over she cannot behave as a human being, just cold and numb.

What's the point to behave that way? This is the end, I don't really know if this is her way of trying to cope with the end of our marriage or if she still keeps some kind of resentment towards me. We both behaved immaturely, we both said things we shouldn't have said when we used to fight but all that is in the past. 

Anyway, I have forgiven her and forgiven myself. That's the only way I will be able to let go and move on.  and she will be always a part of my life and own a piece of my heart.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

> Finally, it isn't the past that determines the future, except for physical changes: it is one's perceptions, interpretations and interpolations of the past that determine the future - changing your mind about the past changes how you act in the future. The past is gone, it can't change. How you view your husband today is a direct and deliberate choice - and you use the past to justify the conclusions you come up with (we all do that.) In other words, the entire thing is intellectual: you choose to think certain thoughts about your husband, and refuse to think others. Since that's gone on a long time, it's become a habit, done without conscious deliberation. You've determined your course...so to speak...regardless of your husband being in the equation at all."


Sometimes I read something that realy strikes a note and this was it today. Now that I am "single" again I really wonder how all this is going to affect my future. How much of our lives is controlled by the subconcious? It seems like a vicious cycle; how as illogical, emotional, imperfect people, can we aviod this? Do we even try, Or just accept it for what it is?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

I think that is why it takes so much effort to change and most people won't -- when you are battling the subconscious you have to change consciously so much -- which takes effort -- so that it over-writes your existing subconscious behaviors. That whole post hit me -- that is where my stbx w is with me. See she never has said that she doesn't love me -- she has said she does but just can't be married to me. The I can't be married is based on some truth and some re-written history or us which she won't let go.

Oh well -- her loss.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

So true that most probably wouldn't even give the idea a second thought. I know my ex wouldn't even try to understand the concept, let alone try to apply it. I on the other hand tend to over analize....'paralysis by analysis' is something I am trying to strike a ballance with, and this is a tough one. Where does one draw the line? How much 'experience' should you use to make decisions? During the last few days of my marriage my W approached me a couple of times and said, "we don't have to do this". At that point I had made my choice (based on the past), and was not willing to change it. Could things have ended differently? Probably not, but it is interesting to think about from this perspective..........OK, I'm gonna stop thinking now!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Hynd,

I think you use all the experiences you have had, weed out the bad things, and move forward. Just need to throw out any cheeseless tunnels you keep going down. 

Change is hard work. Most people shy away from hard work. They don't want to "take the path less traveled". They want it now and they want it to come easy.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

For both Hynd and Feeling~

Do you ever wonder why I am usually so over-abundantly hopeful? Why I encourage people to keep trying when it seems hopeless? Here's why. 

People go along in their life acting from their subconscious thoughts and their habits. They get in the habit of thinking their spouse hurts them and is angry. They get in the habit of not thinking about it and "shooting from the hip" being hurtful and angry themselves. THEN...somehow, something comes up in their life and they get it! They don't HAVE TO act from their subconscious. If they choose to do it, they can change the way they think and their habits. 

(In case you missed it, this is a big thing that Tanelorn and I try to explain to people---how to catch yourself thinking the "old way" and learn to think the "new way".)

Often when that happens to one spouse, if their relationship is at all rebuildable, the spouse who is doing the changing will start to be different, the other spouse will say "What gives" and the changing spouse will try to explain it. *Best case scenario*--the other spouse ALSO "gets it" and they change their habits and thoughts to a more healthy marriage! *Good scenario*--the other spouse doesn't get it at first but sees the changes, likes them, sort of tries it themselves, and then gradually it dawns on them. *Not-so-good scenario*--the other spouse doesn't get it, doesn't give a rip, doesn't change (can't or won't), resents that the changing spouse did change, continues in the old patterns and they grow further and further apart, and the couple often splits: one matured and personally responsible, the other immature and unhealthy, unable to grow. 

I hold out hope for people because you never know that that "AH HA!" moment will come and to a degree as long as there's life, there's hope. In the event of an affair, that's something that rocks a person to their core--disloyal and loyal alike--so the likelihood of "getting it" during a crisis period in their life like this is somewhat increased. But the point is that you don't know which of the scenarios you'll get if you don't change and give them some time and a chance to respond. Some really do need to see that your change is real and sort of "stick their toe in the water" and then they really do come around (scenario #2) so sometimes a little consistency and time is in order. 

In BOTH of your instances, I believe it is scenario #3. Hynd and FeelingAlone, both of your wives could have come around and you could have reconciled but that means she would have had to have the courage to face herself, and she just didn't have that kind of inner strength and character. The trouble is, that is the subconscious pattern she'll be in now: blame others, deflect, avoid, run from herself. And yet no matter where she goes, there she is.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

All I can say is I concur. My stbx W just wants to see me in the light of her revisionist past. Just like her 1st husband. And unfortunately for her she will continue this pattern with any others. She is caught up in a fantasy of what love and marriage "is supposed to be" instead of realizing what it really is about.

She has a pre-conceived notion of what it should be and when it doesn't match, well then the other must be the bad person. I don't begrudge her fantasy, I just feel empathy towards her. And my changes were too little to late for her - obviously I didn't love her (her mind saying that). No she would rather be with some loser.

I hate to say this and it might sound crass -- but she doesn't deserve me. I was willing to stand with her till the end of time -- to take the path less traveled, but she wasn't. She creates un-winnable situations for the people around her who don't even know the rules. So it is her loss. All I hope is as an adult is that she realizes this sometime in her life -- for she will never be happy without realizing it.

I continue doing what I must for me. Thanks for stopping by AC. You and TP are great for people. Maybe if you were around a year ago things might have been different for me, but I really doubt it.

I still continue on my Love Dare journey. For it is for me and not anyone else. I'm almost done.

Peace.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> ... I still continue on my Love Dare journey. For it is for me and not anyone else. I'm almost done.
> 
> Peace.


I know you'll know what I mean when I say I am really sad to hear this. Surprised? No. I just know that this is a perfect situation of a marriage that could have been saved and a LOT better if she only had some inner courage. I'm sad it's almost over, and yet I agree. 

Sooooo...want to lead a Love Dare Group here on this forum? Maybe have one thread that we need near the top posting a Dare a Day with one personal comment by you? 

I think you'd be good at it! :smthumbup:


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

You know AC there were times, as you know, that I thought maybe a corner was slowly turning -- when her step grandfather dies and then when she got that call from the stalking rejected OM.

When she turned to me for comfort and security. Both times I was there for her as a strong man. She knows I've changed. She just won't let it creep into her mindset -- she still has the disloyal view of me.

It makes me sad. But there is nothing more I can do. I've tried it all -- her pride keeps her from realizing that she can come home. I had to explain to my son this past weekend that most likely within 8 weeks we will be divorced. This wasn't done for nothing more than to prepare him for it. I know he still holds out hope -- he said something like "but you aren't divorced yet". Breaks your heart. We talked about other things as well, about after the divorce. I did this in a loving way, truthfully, with no blame towards my stbx w. 


AC I think you give me too much credit. I'm still a novice at the Love Dare. But I'll think about it.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

YAY--I'm glad you'll think about it, and here's why. 

No one who actually leads is "done" or "ready" because as human beings we always have more growing and maturing to do. It's a lifelong process! 

But it has been my experience that if you get in there and teach people what you do know...there are lots of folks out there who don't even know the basics! They need what you know! Also, I've found for me that serving others gives like some purpose and also you learn a TON by teaching others! 

So if nothing else stick around and share what you know, but boy that Love Dare just consistently done every day could sure be used around here!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I am thinking about it. Right now however, I mourn the loss one last time. Two weeks from today will be separated 1 year. Here in NC that is a required period of time prior to filing. So for a while I might be on that last leg of the rollercoaster -- waiting to unload.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Ya know AC, when this all started with my w she said she wanted to punish me for "taking away a year and a half of her life" -- the time I went into my depressive shell. Well I guess she got her punishment. I'm just looking for early parole now.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It never ceases to amaze me, the similarities between betrayeds and waywards. The similarities in personalities, the similarities in tragic scripts.

I really don't doubt for a moment that our marriage could have been saved. I think about a time where there was so precious little that would have been required of her. And she couldn't do it. Did she take steps? Without a doubt. Did she commit herself to the process? Never. Not once. She deflected her fear and concern back at me. The script wasn't going to change. Your story reminds a lot of my own. Being divorced is better than being in a marriage of one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Deejo,

Ever think your w was narcissistic? Just curious about that. Yup same her deflect and turn around onto the one "they love". How their minds work amazes me.

Oh well. Of course my stbx w would say but "you did that". Heck she still re-writes history to this very day. We both moved from the family home. She threw a bunch of crap out. And now asked me if I "took it" not that she is implying that I did -- but what else could you be saying. I was like no I didn't take it but you threw a lot of crap out. Oh she says I wouldn't have thrown this out. Sure just like all the crap I pulled out of the trash to at least take to goodwill, habitat and a woman's shelter. See -- rewriting. It never ends.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> ... Oh she says I wouldn't have thrown this out.


"Well you also wouldn't have left a committed, loving, mature, honest husband for a dishonest man who would commit adultery with a married woman and destroy a family...and you did that!"


Sorry snarky I know but I'm feeling a little grousy at these disloyals today.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I'll never take offense to anything you say. It is the truth and sometimes it will hurt people that don't want to hear it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Feelingalone said:


> Deejo,
> 
> Ever think your w was narcissistic? Just curious about that.


Nope, FA, she trended the other way. She was raised believing that she was incapable and worthless. She _pretended_ like she didn't believe it - but deep down she did.

I truly believe this is part of the reason why we can't reconcile. Being with me reminds her of the fact that she believed she isn't capable - and it got to the point where I didn't think she was either. She can neither forget, nor let that go.

TOM on the other hand has nothing but praise for her (give it a few years). LastinLine had a thread wondering why it was that his wife had traded 'down' in terms of the affair. My spouse did the same thing. Whom she chose is a guy that she wouldn't have given the time of day to, a few years ago. I don't feel compelled to disparage him - but it has been interesting getting the perspective from our mutual friends that know me, and then met him. Nobody 'gets it'. I do ... perfectly.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

Well remember when I was - in my depressive shell --I wasn't necessarily all those things. I needed growth which I'm doing. I'm not defending her here, I'm just being honest with myself.

Deejo,

Yes unfortunately I get it as well about the TOMs for you and LIL. They are the antithesis of what the two of you are. For me in a way I was a "step up" for my w at the time. I'm not tooting my horn here, but I'm educated, professional, etc. The guys before me for her weren't. Now she seems to be going back to them.

Outside of her inherent trust issue, maybe that was always a nugget within her that I would leave her -- and therefore she needed to do it first. I've often wondered about that.

Oh well.


Last night was a lot of fun. Watched a friends softball game and then played two 7 v 7 soccer games. Filled in on a friends team right after my teams game. To say I'm worn out is so true. But I continue to learn how to play this darn game and have fun doing it too. I went 1-0-1. My team won, had a draw for my friends team.


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## CodeNameBob (Jun 3, 2010)

Feeling,

They are the antithesis of what the two of you are. For me in a way I was a "step up" for my w at the time. I'm not tooting my horn here, but I'm educated, professional, etc. The guys before me for her weren't. Now she seems to be going back to them.

Outside of her inherent trust issue, maybe that was always a nugget within her that I would leave her -- and therefore she needed to do it first. I've often wondered about that.

What you said here has really struck a chord with me, this is an issue my counselor and I have been discussing a lot lately. I think there is really something to it, our wive's fear of rejection led them to a path of rejecting us.

Or they had a fear or low self esteem issue that led them them to leave so we wouldn't leave them. Many of my wifes issues have stemmed from her not getting her Licence to be a PT. She had continually said that I am going places and she is not.

Eventhough, she hasn't past yet I know she will soon, and even if she doesn't become a practicing PT, I will and always still love her. Her career is not what I fell in love with, but her being, her soul, which are slippping away from her.

I wish you all the best, and thank you for sharing your story, it is helping others deal with their own situations.

CNB


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I haven't posted for a while. The end of my marriage draws near. A week from today and a divorce can be filed in court -- have to wait a year of physical separation. 

I've been relfective over the last week. Sad. Angry. The same emotions that most on here go through during these times. I had to have some more talks with my son.

I had to explain to him what a divorce means. Not just signing a piece of paper, but the practicalities of it. On Sunday he broke down -- I just held him while he cried for ten minutes. He had said but you aren't divorced yet. I said we will be soon within the next 4 or 6 weeks. I told him that he would be ok, that I would be ok, that I would always love him.

At this point I just want it to be over. I will not be fulfilling any of her needs anymore. I will live up to the agreements, but that is it. I'm done with her forever.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well a quick update -- my lil guy broke his ankle Wednesday night. Won't be set and put in hard cast until this afternoon -- earliest appointment available. Poor guy.

And I've learned what my stbx w really is -- a spoiled little child. That is how she acts and that is how I will treat her going forward. You see last night was my night with my son and since she needed to work this morning since she didn't Thursday I told her hey I'll just keep him til his appointment, and then pick him up at 5 (tonight is my night as well). Oh the venom that sprouted from her mouth. "I'm not letting him stay two days with you?" "I'm his mother!" I said "I AM his father". And of course this was in front of our son.

So its the if it isn't my way I'm taking my toys home -- what a child!.

I've also come to realize that although I do and did have issues, that I punished myself too much and that in the end it was mostly her issues that drove us apart -- ones to which she still won't own up to and resolve. Now she is just a child.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

At times I wonder if 'un-bonding' would have been easier had there been more friction between us.

We have moved from conversational contact via phone and text, to simply pragmatic contact. 

Overall, I suppose it may have something to do with we never saw one another as enemies. Yet, the issues were such that we couldn't mend fences and be happy together.

I can't quite shake the feeling that there is going to be some venom from her when we finalize the divorce.

I'm sorry that's the way it is FA. It sucks. It's really not necessary. I found your 'she's like a child' analogy intriguing, because that is how I often think of my stbx - but not in a disrespectful way. It's more disappointment than disrespect. I don't doubt that she would say she's disappointed with me as well.

Oh, and I hope your boy has a speedy recovery!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Deejo,

The child comment was a statement of observational fact versus disrespect. Yes -- disappointment. That how she is acting. Little comments here or there -- things that for now I let slide until all the paper work is signed. After that her comments will be met with firm but gentle retorts. I just don't want her trying anything at this point and being as she thinks and acts like a child -- she might.

He is in much better spirits, we just left the Dr's office with his brand new Carolina blue cast. 6 weeks to go -- sucks goes he and I go to the beach for a week two weeks from today. Oh well.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Feelingalone said:


> Deejo,
> 
> 6 weeks to go -- sucks goes he and I go to the beach for a week two weeks from today. Oh well.


Plastic bag and duct tape!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yup I imagine that will be deployed. At least it was only a cast below the knee -- for a little while they were thinking a full leg cast. Whew!!!!.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's like a bandaid, at this point. Just rip it off!!!

I know you are tired of carrying the load of the relationship. That's how I felt. Hang in there...in 6 months your life will be totally different.

It's amazing how...when the baggage leaves that you feel freer to do constructive things.

You have my full support. You already know that!!!


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

Rip what off? 

Yes I'm tired. Can't be in a one-sided relationship. She is fulfilling her needs in other ways to her own detriment. The sting is coming.

I need a release of the baggage, but my heart at times still carries it.

Thanks for your support as always.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Haha!

A Band Aid...you know rip it off and get it over with!!! 

I guess my analogy didn't come through. 

My heart does as well. I am in a relationship now and still have feeling for my ex. That doesn't die overnight. 

His girlfriend is staying at his house this week (previously my house). It's a strange feeling to me. She is surrounded by all my stuff and pictures. Hmmmm.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sometimes it is amazing to me how self absorbed my stbx w really is right now. Tuesday's she has our son. She teaches an evening exercise class. Last night right before the class starts she calls me. I'm not one to keep my cell on me at all times -- especially in the evenings -- so I didn't hear it ring. I noticed about ten minutes after the call. No message, but given my son's broken ankle recently I called back.

She was like "I thought I needed your help with son because child care was cancelled tonight" (She puts him in child care while teaching -- he enjoys it because he has friends he has made there). "But Lee -- one of son's friends mother -- would watch since she can't do yoga, but thanks for calling back". I was like uh huh, bye, click.

So I got to thinking about this. She wants the divorce, which by the way is now doable since yesterday was our one year of separation date, yet she still wants me to meet some of her needs. This was not a parenting issue this was her issue. 

For her the wake up call is coming -- you don't want me to be your husband -- so I don't meet any of your needs. I only meet the needs of my son. I'm not doing this to be mean, just it is me living my life now and I'm not her "safety net" when she has a need. Am I wrong? Let me know your thoughts.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Right or wrong, this is my opinion.

Forget about the safety net thing. I would LOVE to have a chance to see my daughter, on the days that I don't normally have her. Whether or not, it's a safety net. My daughter and I would get to see each other.

Yes, in a roundabout way it benefits her. But really...benefits your son and you as well. 

I see your point though....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

CW,

I agree in principal with what you said; however, it is her expectation that is driving this. This is her way, for me to meet some of her needs. And this was a need - not an offer for me to be with my son extra (which I agree I would love) -- but a need of hers. 

That is my issue -- since she is getting her other needs met by "friends" she should have them take care of this need for her as well. Cause that is real life -- the thing she runs from.

Again I don't disagree that it would be great having more time with my son -- and since I can't convey the tone of her voice -- it was an expectation that I would do this. As if I had other things of my own planned that I would drop them for her. No, I won't do that.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I wouldn't drop my plans.

However, whatever her motives are would be still beneficial for you and your sons relationship. 

Let her play her games. Do what you can, when you can, as long as it benefits H. 

There isn't right or wrong. I know you don't want to be putty in her hands or be manipulated. I get that....


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

FA, I've been going through the same thing: Before divorce I bit my tongue (keeping the peace), but now a month after, I still get this frequently. Part of this is my ex's amazing skills at ppp(piss poor planing), but certainly another part is simply her expectations. And when she doesn't get her way I usually get something like: "well, I figured you would want to see them....." or: "I'm sure (OM) would be happy to watch them for a while....." So, as CW said, my decisions are based soley on the kids, sometimes to her benefit, others not, and I generaly try to overlook the 'principal' unless it is a huge or unnecesary inconvenience to me. Tomorrow for example we had planned on her taking the kids in the morning so I could work, but an opportunity came up for her to go white water rafting. Initialy I felt like sticking to the original plan, but then the thought of having an 'extra' day with the kids won out, (as did she I guess). On the other hand, last week when she called me tues afternoon to say 'it would be handy if I took the kids tonight', I had to refuse, (picking up the kids after work just to feed them and put them to bed wouldn't have been 'quality time', and...I had a date). So I just take these one day at a time, try not to let the 'principal' bother me too much, (should be easy for a lawyer, right! he he he!), and use it as a little reminder of the mentality level in the person I am not still married to......


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

FeelingAlone~

First, haven't heard from you in a few days. How are you doing? 

Second, you asked for my opinion on this topic. Speaking as a parent who went through a divorce, I can tell you my personal opinion and what I did...not particularly a professional opinion or what YOU should do though okay?

To lay the background a little, my exH did cheat on me and he was diagnosed Bipolar rapid-cycling and Borderline Personality Disorder--so it was a pretty tough marriage. Needless to say, at the time of our divorce, he was not willing to address his part in the infidelity, much less address his mental illnesses or realize how those might affect his family/spouse. So in many ways, my spouse was like yours: had issues and just refused to admit they were even there, much less ADDRESS them and do something about it!

So rather than face the issues, we divorced (his choice). Throughout our marriage, I put him through college to get his MBA and he earned MUCH more than I did (like 2/3 more). Throughout our divorce, I looked at all the things I had the right to at least ask for--alimony, child support, assets--and I decided that I would be open to negotiating anything and even possibly losing it, but that the kids were a hill I would die on. 

Thus, when he was supposed to have the kids for a visit, and he made plans and asked me to have them...I took them, AND I documented how often I had to do that. I also usually requested that if I had to take them, change my plans, etc. that they stay over night with me. As you know, overnights determine child support, so it didn't take long for me to document that I had the kids for 95% of overnights and change the CS. Naturally he was pissed...but then again he wasn't watching them or changing for them! 

So my suggestion, when she is supposed to have him and makes plans, and rather than her being the adult and meeting her obligations she asks you... I was suggest naming it and agreeing to be the parent to change plans, as long as your son can stay overnight. Also you aren't agreeing to trade your time away, so that stays the same. In other words, she is giving up HER time and her "overnight"--you are keeping yours. 

If it is a simple matter of her going to an event on her night and you both have plans, but she has no intentions of letting you have an overnight, I'd say "Sorry. It's your time and you are responsible now, so you break your plans. When I have him I do not make other plans."


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks AC for your input. No it would not have been me getting an overnight -- just watching him for a couple of hours so that she could teach her evening class. So she "needed" a baby sitter.

Well this was going to be a totally upbeat post a couple of hours ago. Going to the beach for a week with my son and my family (no not the stbx w). So that will be nice except my lil guy broke his league two weeks ago and is in a cast. If you see a guy pulling a wagon with a kid in it with a cast on his leg -- well that might be me. But we will have fun -- it is the beach after all.

The bummer for me today was that I got served and she still doesn't believe I've told her the truth about financial assets even though we went through mediation etc. and was asked for the record -- perjury if not the truth -- and it was.

Of course this will most likely back fire on her since I was being "nice". Oh well she will make this bed and lay in it as well.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> Thanks AC for your input. No it would not have been me getting an overnight -- just watching him for a couple of hours so that she could teach her evening class. So she "needed" a baby sitter.


Ah! And the right of refusal thing...and it is for more than X hours so she asked. In that instance I would say if you don't have plans, go for it! If you do have plans, go ahead and decline and with no guilt because it is her responsibility to arrange her schedule when your son is with her...you arranged for plans when you were free to do so! 



> Well this was going to be a totally upbeat post a couple of hours ago. Going to the beach for a week with my son and my family (no not the stbx w). So that will be nice except my lil guy broke his league two weeks ago and is in a cast. If you see a guy pulling a wagon with a kid in it with a cast on his leg -- well that might be me. But we will have fun -- it is the beach after all.


Have fun! We miss you already! :lol: And I am positive your son will have a blast--after all it's a broken ankle and he can be waited on hand and foot.  



> The bummer for me today was that I got served and she still doesn't believe I've told her the truth about financial assets even though we went through mediation etc. and was asked for the record -- perjury if not the truth -- and it was.
> 
> Of course this will most likely back fire on her since I was being "nice". Oh well she will make this bed and lay in it as well.


You know, this is sad to hear. 

A) It's sad that she filed but at least you know she didn't waste any time and you know that she is the one doggedly pursuing this. She just WILL NOT face her issues and having made that choice, she will now have to live with the consequence. 

B) Previously in mediation you were truthful about financial assets and willing to be generous out of the goodness of your heart. Now, there is less good will toward her and basically suggesting you perjured yourself in medication, so I would recommend being completely honest and forthright with your finances but giving absolutely no more than is required of you by the court calculators. Furthermore, you have months of documentation now to prove how often you actually have your son so I say go for as much custody as you can based on the documentation (50/50 minimum--more if you have him more), and have CS set based on that realistic, documented figure that you can place into evidence.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Back from the beach. Had a great time with my lil guy. He was frustrated that he couldn't just "play" in the water like he could if he didn't have the cast on. But I did find a plastic cover made for covering leg casts which seals, so I did get him in the water at the ocean and the pool. I myself went to a beach boot camp class for work outs. Never did a class before -- dang it was hard an hour and a half long. But I survived each time and felt great later.

AC, I'm not sure he was waited on hand and foot -- he has to learn to do things for himself even if it takes more effort with a cast -- but he was waited on some. Really enjoyed having my niece and nephew there as well. They are 5 and 3. So did H.

Yes she won't face "her" issues. I'm sure in her mind it still was all my fault. Still it sucks to be at this place. 

The only bad thing about having my son for a week -- is coming back to reality and missing him last night already. I'm trying to look at the positive -- that I did have him all to myself for a week -- but the reality just sucks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm glad that your time at the beach was special with H. Cast and all...memories are made!

You are making each moment count...that's all you can do.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW. We did make some memories for just the two of us. 

I just hate the empty times without him. Oh well, can't dwell on that.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Lil guy got his hard cast off this morning. Now in a walking boot. Hoooraaaaaaaaahhh! And got another win this week in soccer. We lost our goalie to, as we found out later, to a disocated and broken finger in the first minute of the game. They just couldn't match us offensively -- the other team actually quit playing with 7 minutes in the game left.

AC,

I am being totally honest and truthful in my dealings with her regarding finances. But with her taking the high road hasn't worked yet, so I have no hope.

Unfortunately my good friend has joined me in the divorce arena. Here is a couple that looked like they had it all. And in only 6 weeks after seperation it couldn't be uglier. He's been denied visitation with his twin boys, etc. The fight is on - it is like watching that movie The War of the Roses. 

I pray it gets better for them both.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well I guess only one of us is dealing with the other honestly and with full openess. I found out last Friday -- through my son -- that my stbx w is engaged to be married. She told him a month ago, but told him not to tell me because I would just get too upset.

Well I did briefly get upset -- it was quite a shock, although not totally unexpected in reality. Then I found out last night that she has told our son that we are already divorced. Well I just said that isn't true that we are still legally married.

Obviously she didn't want me to know prior to the finalization of our divorce and that she most likely has lied about this to the "guy". I guess she needed to lie to our son to make sure he just didn't blurt out -- how can you be engaged and still be married to dad? And it is funny she hasn't told her own mother. Hmmmmmmmm. 

Now this guy doesn't live here so it has been a long distance thing. And of right now the only thing that matters to me is the affect of all of this on my son. I'm glad I know because I can ensure a little stronger language in our agreement regarding relocation involving our son. There is no way in h#$% that he will leaving this state!

So with the insight of Deejo to someone else I have finally gotten to an understanding of my stbx w. This is what I've been searching for, for a long time. And the answer is crystal clear.

Although in her mind she is this "independent woman" in reality she is dependent. See she is coming out of a "horrible" marriage to a "horrible" guy so she chases someone else -- the knight in shining armor who will rescue her, he sees her as the fun, energetic person and falls for her, with that complete he changes for her, after the euphoric love fades, she starts resenting him for her own dependence. Doing this without even knowing she is doing it most likely. Events are perceived in a warped reality -- the illusion she created of the rescuer is fading and reality sets in and worse she looks at him more and more negatively. And voila -- time to insert another "new guy".

Why do I describe it this way? Because history is repeating itself here. I was the rescuer of the horrible guy -- her first husband - now I'm the "horrible" guy and the shoe is on the other foot. When I first started dating her -- she wasn't divorced like I thought -- turned out only separated -- anyone see the similarity here? If not wake up. 

And she told me then -- she couldn't "depend" on him any more because he didn't do x, y, and z. Now I realize she just meant she had to run because she felt dependent on him. The reality is that she, for some reason, won't let herself be dependent, yet she must be for some other unknown reason. 

I mean its easy to be independent, you get a full time job and work. Nothing that she seems inclined to do right now.

So this new guy will probably move here for her and then reality will set in. If this wasn't a sad thing it would almost be funny watching this play out. But like I said this now involves another party, my son. And I hate it for him. Just last night he said he wished he could spend more time with me -- I think the reality of what has happened is becoming clearer to him.

For my part I just try to be honest with him. Try to make sure I'm not "slamming" her, but show him the way to figure things out for himself. And just let him know I love him. That I'm there for him.

And ya know, if she says her life is none of my business, I will just point out to her that it is if and when it affects my son's health and safety. 

Oh well, it has been an intersting few days. Deejo, at least your wife admitted she did this to you -- that is a step for her. My stbx w probably doesn't even realize she does this.

Its weird, I feel bad for her first H. But he got out clean. I'll be dealing with her for the rest of my life due to my son. That makes this such an odd thing -- the best thing in my life came from this marriage which was doomed to end from the beginning for things I couldn't control.

Oh well. Have a great day everyone.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Well I guess only one of us is dealing with the other honestly and with full openess. I found out last Friday -- through my son -- that my stbx w is engaged to be married. She told him a month ago, but told him not to tell me because I would just get too upset.


I would say this is absolutely not a surprise and quite constant with her past, her character and her choices. What honestly irks me though is that she deliberately told her child to lie. Her choices are her choices nada we can do there, but to include a child in dishonesty and deception, to teach him how to manipulate people like that, and to model that it's okay to avoid anger by lying...that is WAY NOT COOL!!

If it were me, I think I'd have a long, long talk with that precious young man of yours and both TELL him and DEMONSTRATE to him that lying is not okay and that it can be lying to omit what you know is true. Also that there is nothing on this planet that he can't come to you about or tell you! Yeah... pretty pissed issed: to hear she is encouraging your son to lie and that would NOT fly with me at all! I hope you are documenting this kind of behavior in a daily calendar so you have the opportunity to maybe go more for 60/40 or 70/30 custody. 



> Well I did briefly get upset -- it was quite a shock, although not totally unexpected in reality. Then I found out last night that she has told our son that we are already divorced. Well I just said that isn't true that we are still legally married.


Gee what a shame that her MARRIAGE gets in the way of her current engagement :crazy: Okay again what she decides to do is her problem and her issue, but the fact that she would again lie to her own child about the legal status of the marriage tends to me to indicate a serious flaw in her ability to parent. Does she provide for the daily needs like a bed, food, clothes? Probably. Does she model mature living, personal responsibility, honesty, commitment...a life of character. Hmmm... What values does she intend to teach her own son and what does she demonstrate to him?



> Obviously she didn't want me to know prior to the finalization of our divorce and that she most likely has lied about this to the "guy". I guess she needed to lie to our son to make sure he just didn't blurt out -- how can you be engaged and still be married to dad? And it is funny she hasn't told her own mother. Hmmmmmmmm.


Yeah I can honestly say that if it were me, I'd said a "Congratulations on the upcoming wedding" card to her mom!  What you mean you didn't know? Our divorce isn't even final and she told your grandson to lie to me about her engagement! What a surprise! 

:FIREdevil: Okay I'm being a little devilish there and part of me does hope you stall the divorce for just as LONG AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE just to mess with their "plans." Is that wicked or WHAT? :lol: Seriously this behavior of chasing other men while still married, using her child as a pawn in her lies, and even lying to her own MOTHER is just... not good. 



> Now this guy doesn't live here so it has been a long distance thing. And of right now the only thing that matters to me is the affect of all of this on my son. I'm glad I know because I can ensure a little stronger language in our agreement regarding relocation involving our son. There is no way in h#$% that he will leaving this state!


Yeah--I'd change the language to something like, "In the even she moves more than 25 miles out of your current city, custody reverts to primary with you and she can move anywhere she wants!" And FA, all devilish soapboxing aside, do not make the mistake so many do of saying, "Oh my ex would never do that!" because they DO and they WILL! Within a few months my Dear Hubby's ex (who had previously been trying to put out the image of "Corporate Single Working Mom--Poor Her!" literally moved 60 miles away, stopped spending any time with her kids, and wanted us drive them to her and back (and go get them again) just so she could spend time with them! If loverboy can't move to her, I guarantee you she will try to move and take your son, and she may just TAKE him while you spend months trying to go to court to get him back!! Alert your lawyer to this as it is VERY relevant to divorce and custody wording, Parenting Plan, etc. 



> So with the insight of Deejo to someone else I have finally gotten to an understanding of my stbx w. This is what I've been searching for, for a long time. And the answer is crystal clear.
> 
> Although in her mind she is this "independent woman" in reality she is dependent. See she is coming out of a "horrible" marriage to a "horrible" guy so she chases someone else -- the knight in shining armor who will rescue her, he sees her as the fun, energetic person and falls for her, with that complete he changes for her, after the euphoric love fades, she starts resenting him for her own dependence. Doing this without even knowing she is doing it most likely. Events are perceived in a warped reality -- the illusion she created of the rescuer is fading and reality sets in and worse she looks at him more and more negatively. And voila -- time to insert another "new guy".


By jove I think he's got it!



> Why do I describe it this way? Because history is repeating itself here. I was the rescuer of the horrible guy -- her first husband - now I'm the "horrible" guy and the shoe is on the other foot. When I first started dating her -- she wasn't divorced like I thought -- turned out only separated -- anyone see the similarity here? If not wake up.


"Time to stop drinking the decaf, April" (obscure reference to the Ninja Turtles movie). Seriously I think you've not only hit this nail on the head--it is a dead on BULLSEYE> 



> And she told me then -- she couldn't "depend" on him any more because he didn't do x, y, and z. Now I realize she just meant she had to run because she felt dependent on him. The reality is that she, for some reason, won't let herself be dependent, yet she must be for some other unknown reason.
> 
> I mean its easy to be independent, you get a full time job and work. Nothing that she seems inclined to do right now.
> 
> So this new guy will probably move here for her and then reality will set in. If this wasn't a sad thing it would almost be funny watching this play out. But like I said this now involves another party, my son. And I hate it for him. Just last night he said he wished he could spend more time with me -- I think the reality of what has happened is becoming clearer to him.


If your son wants to spend more time with you, I seriously see no reason not to go for primary custody. I mean agree to "50/50 custody and decision making" on paper--and offer your home as his "Home Base" and her home as open any time he wants to go and she wants to have him--in your Parenting Plan. This way, he's with you but regularly sees her, and she's free to gal avant all she wants after her rescuer men. 



> For my part I just try to be honest with him. Try to make sure I'm not "slamming" her, but show him the way to figure things out for himself. And just let him know I love him. That I'm there for him.
> 
> And ya know, if she says her life is none of my business, I will just point out to her that it is if and when it affects my son's health and safety.


AMEN you got it. It IS your business when your son is taught manipulation, lying, avoiding anger, deception, and covering up a major thing that will affect the divorce!! That is 100% YOUR business!



> Oh well, it has been an intersting few days. Deejo, at least your wife admitted she did this to you -- that is a step for her. My stbx w probably doesn't even realize she does this.
> 
> Its weird, I feel bad for her first H. But he got out clean. I'll be dealing with her for the rest of my life due to my son. That makes this such an odd thing -- the best thing in my life came from this marriage which was doomed to end from the beginning for things I couldn't control.


You know one day she may realize it. My ex did after about eight years! :lol: But still he did eventually get there so that's ... nice for him. And you know what else? There is a reason why they say children are a gift from God.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

“My stbx w probably doesn't even realize she does this”.

That’s very probably true. And that’s frightening, almost psychopathic, “a person who has no feeling for other people, does not think about the future and does not feel bad about anything they have done in the past”.

You are very well out, although you’ve got some mess to clear up and to deal with her in the future because of your son.

Bob


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

Yes I think it is a dead on bullseye. And I agree she is teaching him her own "manipulation" tools. As I said I just try to give him subtle hints (and sometimes not so subtle hints) to let him figure it out for himself.

As I said I just try to be honest with him. etc. As to your suggestions regarding the parenting plan and her "moving". The type of language you mentioned -- is already in there. Kind of funny there, she thought I might move to another city in NC (cause I said I might for a job) and she threw the language in. I just sat back and agreed -- cause I knew I wouldn't move and she hamstrung herself. I'm just going to ensure it is a little "tighter" in language. Ensure it isn't vague or ambiguous. I don't trust her in that regard -- my eyes are wide open although I don't really think she would move back to her home area. Just not much there for economic improvement. But this new guy might not move here, and although that would instantly be "I can't depend on you" from her perspective -- I can't be 100% sure.

Actually AC I don't want to stall the divorce at all. I don't care about their plans, "it will be fun watching you and your giant ego make a go at running Anecote Steel". OK an obscure movie quote of my own. Who said it? Gordon Gekko to Sir Larry in the original Wall Street. Seriously, the quicker the better for me at this point. 

Maybe I will send her mom a card. There is obviously a reason she hasn't told her -- like she is still married and her mother who was the betrayed in her marriage -- wouldn't like it. Unfortunately for me, my stbx w takes after her father and not her mother. A true independent woman who works full time, takes care of the home, and has empathy and compassion for others.

And yes it is those little lies and omissions -- they add up. Anyone want to bet on how long new guy lasts? 


Here's my take -- 18 months with one caveat -- it goes longer if she gets pregnant. Looking back that is the only reason we lasted longer than her first marriage.

So if she gets married before her birthday she will be on her 3rd marriage at 35. Wow!!!!

And AC the funny thing about this realization is that it seems to have lifted a burden off of my shoulders. The guilt I carried for my mistakes in the marriage seems to have fallen away. I feel renewed in spirit. Also understand why the changes were never seen and why the Love Dare didn't work -- her suspicious mentality and lack of trust.

Now I just need a subtle way to point out her issue to her. Actually I don't, but I'd like to give her a kernel or nugget to think about. Any suggestions?

AFEH,

When you put it that way -- it is frightening isn't it. But I will say that outside of her relationships with guys -- she can be a supportive person to some of her friends. It is just that whole depending on a guy thing that seems to be her issue.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well haven't posted in a while. My rec soccer team finished up the regualr season in 1st place. Played last game last night -- started at 10pm. Man was I wired after that -- couldn't really sleep.

Hoping to have divorce finalized soon. 

"I'm moving on"


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> Well haven't posted in a while. My rec soccer team finished up the regualr season in 1st place. Played last game last night -- started at 10pm. Man was I wired after that -- couldn't really sleep.
> 
> Hoping to have divorce finalized soon.
> 
> "I'm moving on"


House party at your place? I'll bring the beer and chips! FA nice that you've moved on and started your life with renewed hope.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes there might be an Irish wake -- plenty of whiskely, bourbon and beer. And I'm not Irish!!!!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

_Dear M-I-L:

As you no doubt are aware by now, your daughter is engaged to be married and the ink is not even written on our divorce papers, much less dried. I was just writing to give you plenty of time to go dress shopping for this... oh ... THREE times in a lifetime event. :scratchhead: Huh, kind of seems less special doesn't it? Oh well, I guess I recommend maybe something versatile that you could wear again. 

Sadly dear son and I will not be attending as I've heard the words to this one and know there isn't all that much to meaning behind the promise. Also I would really prefer if dear son NOT get the message it's okay to lie about engagement and cover it up, especially when the previous marriage isn't over yet!  I personally would prefer that he be taught morals like "honesty" and "being faithful to your spouse." So we will not be in attendance at this show. 

Hope to see you soon and have fun with the revolving husbands! 

Sincerely, 

FeelingBetterSinceI'mAlone_


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Oh FA I'm sorry. I'm feeling a little snarky today and thought maybe a blowing off some steam humorously would help. How are you doing these days? Getting a little more time with your precious little man?


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

I wish I could send a letter like that -- and the thought has crossed my mind -- but what would it actually achieve? I think nothing. Wouldn't change anything.

I know you were in a snarky mood. Everybody is due those moods. I'm doing ok. I just keep plugging. I'll be spending more time with my lil guy during soccer season -- I'll be a coach.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Well the end is near -- September 13th appears to be the end of this stage of my life.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Haven't posted in a few days on my thread. The end draws nearer on my marriage. On a bright note, my parents will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary this Saturday. No not a big party planned. They decided to just drive into the northeast for 2 weeks going where and when they want without it all planned out -- just the two of them. Congratulations to my parents.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's wonderful that your parents are celebrating 50 years! Funny! I always thought that it would be me doing the same. I made it 1/2 way! Oh well. 

You will have your new beginning. Something that you didn't plan on but nontheless, it's what you need. This door will be closing but many additional opportunities will come your way. H will be OK. His parents love him and want the best for him.

It will all be ok.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, FA, tomorrow is the big day; one chapter closes and another opens. Since we have spoken for these MANY pages about the spiritual aspect of the journey through infidelity and divorce, let's talk about the journey after divorce. Divorce is not falling off the path of life; it is taking a different path. 

You marked the beginning of this chapter with a ceremony, and made promises binding yourself to another person. Whether your ex is willing to participate or not, you may want to also END this chapter with a ceremony, releasing and forgiving yourself and your ex. 

You could each take the time to write down what you honor about your years together, and then read them out loud or share what you wrote here. 

You could give back your wedding rings, or formally set them aside, in storage, for a significant jewelry gift for your son (like remake the rings to make him a ring for graduation). 

You could have a small gathering of your friends and family somewhere private like people do after a funeral or wake--where grieving would be supported. 

You could follow or adapt a ritual such as the one offered in Marianne Williamson's Illuminata: Thoughts, Prayer, Rites of Passage. In her chapter on divorce, Williamson advises that you ask your spiritual counselor or therapist to act as "officiator " for a formal divorce ceremony

Finally I personally suggest that you say to your ex, either in person or within your heart: "I bless you and release you. Please forgive me; I forgive you. Go in peace. You will remain in my heart." 

For me, I wrote our vows by hand. I packed our wedding albums and photos, and wedding items, into a special, sealed box. I said the "I release you" prayers and then lit the vows and let them turn to dust, and as the smoke rose and dissipated I let him go. I took wedding rings off and took them to a jeweler to have him melt the gold and make a necklace for our daughter and a ring for our son...for a future celebration like confirmation or graduation.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

AC,

Thank you for the kind words and suggestions. Yes today is the day -- in two hours I will be divorced. It has hit me hard -- I grieve the loss today. To be honest the last week has been trying. A lot of reflection. And some anger about this whole thing. I guess I was going through the five stages of loss all at once last week.

I haven't really spoken to her at all. Right now I just have no interest in doing so. So if I do anything, it will be by myself. She has another now -- he is probably here today (his truck was at her place when I dropped off my lil guy last evening) to celebrate with her.

And I think that is what gets to me -- that she so easily moved on. At least in appearances. I'm just not like that. When I said my vows I meant them. Oh well.

Today I will grieve -- I won't lie and say I won't. I'm just tired of it all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

When I read Affaircare suggestions, it sounds like a good idea. But, I was a bit like you.....tired. To add anything else regarding my marriage, would be another effort.

I know you are tired....it was a long road. I am here for you. We are here for you. Reach out to us, if you need a hand.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks CW. As I said I am tired and I am grieving today. Today I allow myself that grief. I am now divorced legally and emotionally. I am free to do what I please. I held back out of respect for my vows.

Its nice to not have any hope -- not even that little inkling in the back of my head anymore. So be it. I will be moving over to the Life After Divorce area now.


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

Feelingalone said:


> But for us to ever come back together we both must change. And I realize now she might not like the new me who challenges her and rises to the occassion. She thinks that is what she wants, but really it has to be on her terms. So in the long wrong without her changing, there is nothing.




I feel ya! I'm in the same situation.


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