# Conrad Detaches



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

As promised in MyselfAgain's thread.

We've had ringside seats to Arbitrator's phone logs and OVS' recent courthouse experience.

Talk about using a cattle prod to detach!

For the rest of us, it's different. Much of it depends on the presence (or not) of posOM and/or posOW. Once that bridge gets crossed, things go to the final stage relatively quickly.

But, what if there is no posOM? Synthetic still hasn't confirmed the presence of a posOM. Lifescript isn't certain (but highly suspects), UpnDown knows she got some contraceptives.

What we must keep in mind is what takes one person 6 months might take another 6 years. The time you put in is almost irrelevant. 

I have found with every boundary I set and every time she treats me badly I detach a little more each time. This time she was telling me I'd never doubt her love for me and that she was sorry about the constant threats of leaving and she knows how that hurt. And, she's done it again.

And, I can feel I've detached a bit more than before. It's a matter of staying @50,000 feet and recognizing the pain. It's not engulfing me, but it is frustrating to spin the wheels.

When it's time to go, I will know. 

The only exception is if she files first. In that case, I would let her go respectfully - as she will be footing the bill.

Of course, the other exception is the entrance of posOM. But, I don't anticipate that.

You might think during this observation period, I'd be feeling bad. Not true. I've never been happier in my life. I'm now completely ok being at home alone. I'm not worried at all what either family thinks about "our situation". I truly have peace.

I always used to cringe in the threads where I'd hear people talk about the "process" of getting this or that to happen. Yet, this truly is a process - and I give myself report cards.

Even though I lost it this week, it was far better than enabling and kissing her ass. This is real progress. I can speak directly to her about my shortcomings - and hers. My masculine mojo is back. Why else would I start my other thread and open things up in that fashion?

Life is good. There's no rush.

Besides, I've got all of you.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

You've def got me in your corner, I'm sorry this has all started again for, this is your 2nd marriage?? You've been my zen master Conrad & ANYTHING you need from me it's yours, also before you take your car into a shop for diag please ask my advice first, consider me tam's personal mechanic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

From all that I've gathered here, it seems a lot more beneficial to have that confirmed PA to help detach. Although beneficial really isn't the best word for it I suppose.

There are so many different scenarios, many various things to overcome.

For me, I won't be able to fully move on until I can come to terms with my own faults in what was at one time a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

Good luck Conrad. 

I read your story -- and sometimes ask myself questions, but this is your life and you have to do what is in your heart.

Just don't get the head and heart confused.

Sometimes in our heart we know what we have to do -- but our head tells us something different.

Through my life experience -- following your heart is never wrong!!


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## teewhy (Jun 9, 2012)

Conrad, I have no words of wisdom for you... just my total support! Hopefully, that is enough. You are surrounded by friends who care, and we got your back just as you have ours bro...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Keep detaching bro. She's not going to change her tactics. The more you detach the more desperate she will become and the harder she will work to maintain control. Don't be surprised if she actually follows through on some of her threats.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

UpnDown said:


> From all that I've gathered here, it seems a lot more beneficial to have that confirmed PA to help detach. Although beneficial really isn't the best word for it I suppose.
> 
> There are so many different scenarios, many various things to overcome.
> 
> ...


You'd think that a pa would help but sometimes not. I've had three ddays. I took him back every time. He left me for 4 months then he finally ended it and came back for 10 whole days. I was feeling insecure and drove by ow's house. She followed me and cussed me out as if I did something to her for 13 yrs. My h left me again because of that. Said it was a deal breaker and almost as much of a betrayal as his affair which is completely irrational. It wasn't until then that I was able to let go and detach. I finally accepted the insanity of it all. I finally have had enough and want off this crazy train. Some of you are not dealing with infidelity but that doesn't mean you aren't riding the crazy train. It's different for eveyone, you have to reach your own breaking point. You all know it's coming but you just can't pull the trigger on it yet.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

cantmove said:


> You'd think that a pa would help but sometimes not. I've had three ddays. I took him back every time. He left me for 4 months then he finally ended it and came back for 10 whole days. I was feeling insecure and drove by ow's house. She followed me and cussed me out as if I did something to her for 13 yrs. My h left me again because of that. Said it was a deal breaker and almost as much of a betrayal as his affair which is completely irrational. It wasn't until then that I was able to let go and detach. I finally accepted the insanity of it all. I finally have had enough and want off this crazy train. Some of you are not dealing with infidelity but that doesn't mean you aren't riding the crazy train. It's different for eveyone, you have to reach your own breaking point. You all know it's coming but you just can't pull the trigger on it yet.


I recall reading about that .. you make some good points, even a PA doesn't guarantee an automatic removal of a person from your life. So sorry you had to go through that ordeal.

I've been here since May and the variety of stories is just mind boggling. The things people go through in relationships, makes me wonder sometimes if it's even really worth it in the end.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> Keep detaching bro. She's not going to change her tactics. The more you detach the more desperate she will become and the harder she will work to maintain control. Don't be surprised if she actually follows through on some of her threats.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Banned It My Brother,

You do realize that we teach what we most need to learn. By posting here, I learn as much from all of you as you learn from me. What works. What doesn't. What our guts tell us that's just so so wrong.

You hear people speak all the time of "support groups". You realize that's what this is. We support each other. We even look for each other when one of us is missing. After my six years in the crucible of relationship mistakes, I have many answers but implementing them is still a challenge. We're in this TOGETHER.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Agreed. Detach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Banned It My Brother,
> 
> You do realize that we teach what we most need to learn. By posting here, I learn as much from all of you as you learn from me. What works. What doesn't. What our guts tell us that's just so so wrong.
> 
> You hear people speak all the time of "support groups". You realize that's what this is. We support each other. We even look for each other when one of us is missing. After my six years in the crucible of relationship mistakes, I have many answers but implementing them is still a challenge. We're in this TOGETHER.


Even you are entitled to weak periods. I'm glad to see that you're progressing. I think it was good for all of us to see the little man with the big voice behind the curtain. (For those who don't get the reference, follow the yellow brick road.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

Conrad, off topic but I've been taking Tylenol pm to help sleep, is there a better over the counter sleep aid
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

our vision shattered said:


> Conrad, off topic but I've been taking Tylenol pm to help sleep, is there a better over the counter sleep aid
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Diphenhydramine 25mg generic.

2 capsules at bedtime.

Very very cheap. May go by a number of store brand names. But, every pharmacy has it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MyselfAgain said:


> Even you are entitled to weak periods. I'm glad to see that you're progressing. I think it was good for all of us to see the little man with the big voice behind the curtain. (For those who don't get the reference, follow the yellow brick road.)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We're all human.

It's important to remember that there's nothing all that special about me. If I can master this, so can everybody else.


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Conrad did you not get any sleep last night? you were posting at 1am and now again at 7am
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

unsure78 said:


> Conrad did you not get any sleep last night? you were posting at 1am and now again at 7am
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She came over and we had a long discussion.

I actually had a nap prior, so I'm pretty fresh.

Thanks for asking.

I'm glad you're feeling better.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She came over and we had a long discussion.
> 
> I actually had a nap prior, so I'm pretty fresh.
> 
> ...


Care to enlighten us?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnDown said:


> Care to enlighten us?


I've been quite honest with all of you lately about my recovery from codependence. What I've realized is that I have not only been codependent with her.... I've been codependent since I was 18 years old - with everybody.

I see myself as a giver. So, when I see Unsure's thread and how her ex's struggles/threats create such turmoil for her, I'm quite familiar with how that feels.

I've been a codependent brother.

I've been a codependent boyfriend

I've been a codependent husband

I've been a codependent father

I've even been a codependent employee

Janie interpreted my interaction here as a threat to her. She thinks I've been talking about her and I actually believe that was the real motivation behind the now failed joint account.

What I've told her is that my interaction here is FOR ME. Being my wife, she is part of "me", but this isn't focused on her. It may focus on what I should be doing for ME in response to what I see from her, but that's not the same thing.

Gaming your wife to get more sex is about manipulation.

Recovering from codependence and learning to stand for yourself is not.

She still asserts she cannot believe what I say. I've been quite honest and told her I don't trust her judgement. She says she was honest about giving her ex a massage. I gently reminded her she was honest AFTER the deed was done. And, that I'm totally not ok with it.

Our current game plan is to date 2-3 times/week and no one-on-one's with opposite sex friends.

She's now cool with my participation here. I do hope that lasts, because I'm not ok with being isolated from support. As pidge points out, that sort of control is a prelude to emotional abuse.

We're also continuing to separate our financial lives. As you might expect, the issues associated with supporting stepchildren with a SAHM second wife are fertile ground for resentment.

She says she doesn't really believe in our future anymore. I countered with the fact that we have much to prove to each other going forward, but we opened a new door as I'm now ok being vulnerable with boundaries.

In fact, I'm able to tell her when I fear her response - in the moment - and we did a decent job of de-escalating and examining the dynamic associated with same.

Several times, she expressed grave doubts about what was going to happen and start citing examples from years gone by.

I not always gently reminded her that when I do that very thing, she wants to rugsweep.

Sunshine is the best bleach.

Trust is built one transaction and one encounter at a time.

So, we have much to prove to each other.

I'm totally ok with that.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Thanks for sharing, good luck in the process.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnDown said:


> Thanks for sharing, good luck in the process.


Up,

I speak all the time about broken emotional centers and their impact on adult relationships.

I saw through myself and now I finally see her.

I realize the control is about insecurity. And, I would imagine putting other people ahead of our partnership is about putting me in my place. Also based on fear.

What do I do about it?

Good question.

When I've corresponded with heartsbeating, we've talked about how vitally important "progress" is to men. Making good time - not getting lost. Overcoming obstacles that previously tripped you up.

On the whole, this was a good chat.

Even one year ago, this would have ended in profanity and a shut-down.

Last night ended with a warm hug and a kiss.

True progress.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

You are a truly amazing gentleman Conrad. You have exceptional fortitude to keep trying. Joe went through this sort of thing from me for years. I asked him why he put up with such a horrible person. He said, "I knew the REAL you was in there and I hoped she would come back".


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> You are a truly amazing gentleman Conrad. You have exceptional fortitude to keep trying. Joe went through this sort of thing from me for years. I asked him why he put up with such a horrible person. He said, "I knew the REAL you was in there and I hoped she would come back".


pidge,

Janie says she feels like a laboratory experiment for me.

I remember the day I stood in our kitchen and - rather inarticulately - accused her of having BPD.

Nice, huh?

I remember that clearly as May of 2009. We'd been married since December of 2007.

Of course, my early research focused on how to fix her. I mean, OF COURSE this was based on her issues

As late as May of 2011 when she demanded I leave and I refused and told her to get out... I was one angry dude.

I could give you all the details. Much of it is sad. But, in the rear-view mirror, I can truly laugh at how clueless I was.

And, while individual counseling is recommended and good, the kind of support offered in THIS SUBFORUM is what really turned the trick on helping me heal.

The combination of the two meant everything. For you see, my counselor sympathized with Janie. She was abused as a child also. As has usually been the case in my life, when we were in conflict, it was clear my counselor applied a double standard to our behavior. The only real answers I found are the ones I now give. And, they do work. REALLY work.

The cumulative wisdom on these pages is mind-boggling.

It's truly a privilege to "know" all of you.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Conrad. I never tried to diagnose pidge , I do remember one heated argument where I stated I shouldn't have to pay for the sins of her parents and that she had " Daddy issues". I was tired of the goal posts being moved.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> Conrad. I never tried to diagnose pidge , I do remember one heated argument where I stated I shouldn't have to pay for the sins of her parents and that she had " Daddy issues". I was tired of the goal posts being moved.


I had two years of being a diagnostician.

Where do I go to get those wasted years back?

(Of course, I was also in IC during that time, so it's not quite that bleak. But, I was surely a fixer)

Let me add a bit more.

I love Uptown and his eye-opening posts on BPD and BPD family, etc. It's good good stuff. And, it's great to be aware of these things. In fact, if you suspect your SO is in that camp, how you deal with it is markedly different than if they're not in that camp.

But, you see... the whole "diagnostician" thing can be an excuse to not look at oneself and own their own part.

For every BPD'er, there's a codependent rescuer. And, BOTH need help.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

My mother is a BPDer.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnDown said:


> My mother is a BPDer.


Now you know what you need to do.

Put together a budget that allows for therapy 2x/week.

And, find a good one.

I'm serious.

We're here for you too.

This is a golden moment in time. Sets you up for the rest of your life.

Don't waste it.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Don't want hijack Conrad but I really just gave up. If she would not have become self aware there is no way I could have continued. It was ......exhausting.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Conrad,
I don't reply to your posts, but I do read most of them. 
Some of us get a lot out of what is going on, and do our own learning.

My only comment on the diagnosing someone, is I have learned to say things in a manner of how it relates to me.

Meaning I might point out that I "understand" and I can comprehend WHY certain behaviors happen, as that is what they know, what they learned from life, and how they use their past to judge present behaviors. And then I say "who am I to say that is the wrong way? You can choose to react in whatever manner you are comfortable with".

However, I then make it clear that when they choose to react by making their problem MY problem, I have no choices left. 

Because I am firm in my beliefs that I am going to do whatever is necessary to make sure I keep growing, learning, and working on being a better ME. I will not let them warp my sense of security by blaming me.

So while I understand WHY they might behave a certain way, I will not ever take it as an excuse. Ever. My boundaries are firmly in place. If they want to be IN my life, they will respect those boundaries and judge me based on MY behavior. And I will, in return, own up to my own mistakes and do the same for them. 

That has nothing to do with loving your partner. It's more about loving yourself and being true to your own self.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Hey Conrad,

I have always enjoyed reading your perspective and advice. I wasn't really aware of what you have been going through personally.

I admit I haven't read your entire story. I just keeping thinking about one aspect of your relationship. You mentioned how your wife continues to have friendships with her 'ex's'. The recent one is a massage she gave an 'ex'. You mentioned how she is not tolerant of you having relationships with any 'ex's'.

I don't understand your wife. Since she doesn't like you having a relationship with 'ex's', she obviously understands how you feel. She probably understands that having a relationship with an 'ex' is not good for your relationship and is 'playing with fire'. 

Her actions (continuing these friendships) speak loudly that she doesn't care about your feelings. 

I think this is a very big issue in your relationship. She needs to respect your feelings when it comes to this. She says she was honest about the massage. But I don't think this is about honesty. I think that if you told her you were taking out an ex for lunch, she wouldn't be OK with this (even if you were honest).

Marriages need boundaries in regards to friendships outside the marriage. I think friendships with 'ex's is typically a 'no go' for most people. That is reasonable.

I wish you the best.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> Conrad,
> I don't reply to your posts, but I do read most of them.
> Some of us get a lot out of what is going on, and do our own learning.
> 
> ...


deejov,

That's really good insight.

Last night, we pioneered a new communication technique. When I felt the familiar fear of how she'd respond creeping into the discussion, I told her.

We'd then make an effort to reset.

We've had more than enough blaming and dumping of anger.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> Conrad. I never tried to diagnose pidge , I do remember one heated argument where I stated I shouldn't have to pay for the sins of her parents and that she had " Daddy issues". I was tired of the goal posts being moved.


Joe,

I hear ya brother.

Janie has relentlessly insisted that I'm "playing the victim" when I talk about our issues to others.

It turns out she was right.

Her behavior was nearly impossible for me to understand. Meeting guys on the internet for lunch in secret while I'm out of town. Insisting they remain "friends for life" and then getting upset that our disagreements about this upset the kids.

Did she ever give any thought to stopping?

So, yes... the victim role was so easy to assume.

For a codependent... it's PREFERRED.... you have to justify your resentments somehow

I can now see where I could have - and should have - enforced boundaries. But, I stayed reactive and frightened... and - of course - explosive.

You only stay frightened for so long until you.... fight.

Boundaries get stretched so far and then.... you snap.

When she said she was moving out because the kids needed a "stable home", it took my breath away.

When did THAT become the goal? And, what was your role in it?

As Uptown will tell you, people with PTSD absolutely fear taking responsibility - as their emotional center screams out in fear of swift punishment should they have a part in some problem.

Knowing all these things, when I heard her say she was not going to be my adversary anymore, I wept freely.

But, I'm still going to need her to prove it with actions.

Massaging an ex, having him for dinner on July 4th, monitoring my communications/isolating me, and cutting and running when I concealed a friendship wasn't a step in that direction.

So, I detach a bit more. And I observe.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad, 

I agree that putting all the blame on the spouse and diagnosing BPD is a coward move. In the beginning I was doing that. Then I realized how much I enabled her behavior by not setting strong boundaries, being a doormat/nice guy. 

Sometimes I catch myself thinking this is 100% my fault and she is my victim. In other words she needed help and I tried to help but not in the right way. I know this is the fixer in me trying to take control. 

I have realized my faults and it liberated me but as you know it's so difficult to deal with these type of personaligies. If your wife doesn't get IC how can she change? I admire you for fighting for this so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Script,

I have let her go. She is "hers" to deal with.

I now only focus on how she actually treats me.

That's when progress really started. I have no more frustration about her issues. When I see them pop up, I may ask if she's thought about counseling for this or that.

That's as far as it goes.

I've had time to think about this.

I am ok with her living there, as long as we see each other regularly and passionately.

I am not ok with paying her to leave me. So, I will not be sending her a dime. Her children do not like me anyway and subsidizing their lifestyle is a "#3" for me.

We have now agreed that if I invite her and she accepts I will pay. The reverse is also true.

I am not ok with one on one contact with other men - including any and all ex's. I also am not ok with massages for any of them.

When she graduates massage school, this is how she makes a living. But, I won't be ok with it if she starts making a living by massaging ex's.

This is pretty clear stuff.

What I would like to experience is an agreement that we can both keep where she won't "encroach" and attempt to control.

She has a habit of digging through phones, email, forums, etc. and taking offense.

That's fine if she wants to do that, but I'm not ok with cutting myself off from support so she can isolate me and make demands that I quit living.

If she can accept these, we may be able to build.

If not?

We'll go from there.





Lifescript said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I agree that putting all the blame on the spouse and diagnosing BPD is a coward move. In the beginning I was doing that. Then I realized how much I enabled her behavior by not setting strong boundaries, being a doormat/nice guy.
> 
> ...


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh I was an enabler I know. I started to believe that I drove her to her actions, that I must be the ogre she made me out to be. I spent so many years chasing my tail. When I did detach 2 yrs ago and stopped dancing to her music she had an affair. It wasn't until I was almost out the door that she changed. For the 1st year I took this change with a grain of salt....I had heard this song before. I was ready to bolt and was eager to blow what I thought was pure manipulative BS out of the water. 
Seems to be sincere in this. It's been almost 2 yrs and the "hell" factor in my home has dropped 90%. Now when she reverts I call her on it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> Oh I was an enabler I know. I started to believe that I drove her to her actions, that I must be the ogre she made me out to be. I spent so many years chasing my tail. When I did detach 2 yrs ago and stopped dancing to her music she had an affair. It wasn't until I was almost out the door that she changed. For the 1st year I took this change with a grain of salt....I had heard this song before. I was ready to bolt and was eager to blow what I thought was pure manipulative BS out of the water.
> Seems to be sincere in this. It's been almost 2 yrs and the "hell" factor in my home has dropped 90%. Now when she reverts I call her on it.


Joe,

Look at can'tmove's blog.

She is an awesome woman and a compassionate lady. Any man would be lucky to have her.

Yet, she is codependent.

Even NOW, she is wondering why not her. What was the magic thing she "could have" done differently that would change the outcome in her favor. The thing she could have done that would have brought peace and love. For you see, focusing on him is the ticket to emotional hell.

The answer is actually pretty simple.

Love yourself.

You really aren't able to count on anyone else to do it. If they sign on, great. If they don't? Ces't lavie.

Can'tmove still needs to love herself.

Why shouldn't she? She is clearly a great catch and worthy.

Yet, because of our formative years, we sometimes don't.

Let's not beat ourselves up about it, let's just get down to it.

Right the ship and let it sail.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Diphenhydramine 25mg generic.
> 
> 2 capsules at bedtime.
> 
> Very very cheap. May go by a number of store brand names. But, every pharmacy has it.


Thank you sir, picked some up today, okay to take with melatonin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

our vision shattered said:


> Thank you sir, picked some up today, okay to take with melatonin?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No problems/reactions at all.

Sleep well.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> Oh I was an enabler I know. I started to believe that I drove her to her actions, that I must be the ogre she made me out to be. I spent so many years chasing my tail. When I did detach 2 yrs ago and stopped dancing to her music she had an affair. It wasn't until I was almost out the door that she changed. For the 1st year I took this change with a grain of salt....I had heard this song before. I was ready to bolt and was eager to blow what I thought was pure manipulative BS out of the water.
> Seems to be sincere in this. It's been almost 2 yrs and the "hell" factor in my home has dropped 90%. Now when she reverts I call her on it.


One last thing.

When a partner is sincere and listening, it's so easy to take advantage.

Be careful with her.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Conrad said:


> One last thing.
> 
> When a partner is sincere and listening, it's so easy to take advantage.
> 
> Be careful with her.


She knows. ( I hope). I just live by simple rules. I don't take what I don't need. I don't say what I don't mean. Used to be when she was "nice " to me it was the calm before the storm. No storms for a while now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

joe kidd said:


> She knows. ( I hope). I just live by simple rules. I don't take what I don't need. I don't say what I don't mean. Used to be when she was "nice " to me it was the calm before the storm. No storms for a while now.


Let her know you see it.

And treasure her.


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## cantmove (Feb 20, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Joe,
> 
> Look at can'tmove's blog.
> 
> ...


Hello my name is Melissa and I'm co-dependent. And yes my formative years left me full of insecurities, abandonment issues, an eating disorder, etc., etc, etc. Changing those things about ourselves that have been ingrained over many years is easier said than done.

However I am completely aware of my issues from the past and have worked on them for years in IC. I have overcome a lot. I have boundaries in place for my mother and my father. I even have them in place for friends. I overcame my eating disorder.

But I must say I have only realized recently that I am so co-dependent with my husband. A challenge that I am up to but geez this just might be the hardest thing yet. Detaching from family and friends I find very easy when necessary but with my stbx, well that's another story. He has a power over me that is big. I realize I gave him that power and it is in my control to take it away. Somedays are easier than others. Today was a brief pity party. There will be others. Of that I can assure you. But I'm aware and I want to make this change for myself and my son. I will get there. I am learning to love and value myself. It's a slow process. If I were doing this within a happy marriage it might be easier but I'm not. I'm getting a divorce, I have to dind a new career, I'm learning to be a single mom and depend on myself, I dealing with my sons emotions, I'm trying to figure out how to pay the bills etc., etc. I'm not whining, I'm stating the facts. This $hit is hard. But Conrad, I have a very deep keel and I will not roll over.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Melissa,

I'm codependent also.

There is life awaiting you after you conquer this.

But, you must take it out at the roots.

There is no easy button.

Yes, being codependent with Janie was the most intense emotional hell I've ever experienced.

But, I see the symptoms - literally - across the board.

Church, friends, family, in-laws...

Ugh

Always extending myself in the hopes of some good outcome.. that never comes.

And, then resentment

Such fun.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I agree that putting all the blame on the spouse and diagnosing BPD is a coward move. In the beginning I was doing that. Then I realized how much I enabled her behavior by not setting strong boundaries, being a doormat/nice guy.
> 
> ...


i've been thinking more and more about this as well. he definitely has alot of issues, but many of these issues i put up with for years. had i set boundaries early on, maybe things would have been better, or maybe our relationship would have ended a long time ago. i too am making myself better, little by little. i haven't totally closed the door to a R, but i now know it's not about fixing what we had, it's about creating something new and better, if he is ever willing to try.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lulubelle said:


> i've been thinking more and more about this as well. he definitely has alot of issues, but many of these issues i put up with for years. had i set boundaries early on, maybe things would have been better, or maybe our relationship would have ended a long time ago. i too am making myself better, little by little. i haven't totally closed the door to a R, but i now know it's not about fixing what we had, it's about creating something new and better, if he is ever willing to try.


Lulu,

The really hard part to recognize about this is that it's a lack of SELF worth that prevents us from setting boundaries - and enforcing them.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Its a hard process, Conrad. We read this all the time here.... work on yourself, that's all you control.

But to get from the point of thinking... "if only my spouse would do this I would be happy" to realizing that "hey, I AM happy, when I have boundaries and like ME first" is sometimes a big giant leap of faith.

Personally, I didn't get it until I detached a bit. 

My roommate H is seeing a female counsellor. I immediately thought "epic fail" because she is a woman. He was telling me yesterday that she says most men are "fixers" and he should focus more on listening. Just listen. Absorb. Don't try and fix everything. She's trying to get him to see himself just simply. Detach. So he can SEE that he needs to work on himself. And not to try to change everything to suit him, but rather accept that he should consider LEADING. 

But to lead, you have to know what your path is. 

The possible outcomes when you get to this point is you won't be on the same path. But if you are true to your self, it's not going to hurt as much. It's the right thing to do.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> Its a hard process, Conrad. We read this all the time here.... work on yourself, that's all you control.
> 
> But to get from the point of thinking... "if only my spouse would do this I would be happy" to realizing that "hey, I AM happy, when I have boundaries and like ME first" is sometimes a big giant leap of faith.
> 
> ...


deejov,

I've read about your situation.

Coming from you, this means so much.

It warms my broken heart.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

How goes everything at camp Conrad?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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