# Explain this please



## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I have always wondered this. I also know others who do this but never really asked them so thought I would ask here. 

Why is it some people's deal breaker would be if their spouse cheated, but have no problem with an open marriage/swinging? Is it because with an open marriage or swinging, you know about your spouse being with another person, because you are usually in the sexual mix as well?
Is cheating the deal breaker because its something you didn't know about and felt it was done behind your back? Either way they are still getting something new other than what you have to offer, just you either know about or not, I suppose.

I guess the reason I'm asking is, I had a friend recently tell me, her and her husband had been in the swinging lifestyle for a few years now, but then she found out he cheated on her with someone she didn't know about. So I guess him lying and being deceitful and the fact he didn't tell her about it changed it all for her, and now she is upset. So basically her husband getting some new "a$$" is ok as long as she knows about it and she sees it or is apart of it, but if she doesn't know he was getting some on the side it changed everything. 

Anyway, was just wondering what others thoughts were.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

It's the lying and deceit that hurts the most.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

AgentD said:


> I have always wondered this. I also know others who do this but never really asked them so thought I would ask here.
> 
> Why is it some people's deal breaker would be if their spouse cheated, but have no problem with an open marriage/swinging?


Because the real problem with cheating is not the sex but the deceit. Swinging and open marriages require HYPER honesty which can build and strengthen a marriage. 



> Is it because with an open marriage or swinging, you know about your spouse being with another person, because you are usually in the sexual mix as well?
> Is cheating the deal breaker because its something you didn't know about and felt it was done behind your back? Either way they are still getting something new other than what you have to offer, just you either know about or not, I suppose.
> 
> I guess the reason I'm asking is, I had a friend recently tell me, her and her husband had been in the swinging lifestyle for a few years now, but then she found out he cheated on her with someone she didn't know about.


In this case, it is even WORSE. Having fully trusted the spouse with openness, he chose to abuse the openness with deceit. If my husband had done that, I would have drop kicked him to the curb so fast, he would not see the boot flying toward his butt cheeks.




> So I guess him lying and being deceitful and the fact he didn't tell her about it changed it all for her, and now she is upset. So basically her husband getting some new "a$$" is ok as long as she knows about it and she sees it or is apart of it, but if she doesn't know he was getting some on the side it changed everything.
> 
> Anyway, was just wondering what others thoughts were.


Clear enough. It is not the new a$$. It is the deceit.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

DanF said:


> It's the lying and deceit that hurts the most.


I agree. Even though this is nothing I have experienced on my own, I do know of someone who did this, and I did ask what the deal was with it. 

She basically told me it was about the lying and deceit. The lying and deceit outweighed that of, sharing intimate sexual bodies, possible emotional connections. Watching their spouse/partner being sexually fulfilled by another. There spouse or partner joining with another in a very physical intimate sacred way didn't bother her. It all had more to do with lying.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Open marriage implies that both spouses have agreed to it-cheating implies that only one spouse has done it, and is lying and sneaking around, because the loyal spouse has no idea.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Ever see the movie Sex, Lies and Videotapes? Done in the 80's I think.

You think it's a movie about smut but it isn't.

It talks about a truth that to a lot of women, the lying makes them angry, to the point of Towering Rage, more than the actual fact you had sex with another woman. 

They can actually deal with that.

The lying? 

They often can't handle. 

They see it as disrespect when ironically, men see it as respect. I mean, just come right and say, "Yeah, I had sex with another woman" seems disrespectful to me. At least lie about it, lol.

But really I am finding out even as I date, women apprecaite honesty more than fidelty - does that make any sense (i may do a thread about my own circumstance in the dating forum later)?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

As a former swinger I can try to answer this. 

It has alot to do with the lying and deceit part of it.

When my wife and I first started swinging, it was my idea. She went along with it, I don't think she was into it at first, but seemed to be more accepting and willing later on. Although looking back not real sure she was ever real accepting of it. I think she just went along with it. 

About 3 years into it, I met a lady that for whatever reason I had an emotional connection with. I did not tell my wife. So basically I was cheating/having an affair behind her back. I kept it from her because out of all the other couples or people we would swing with, it was purely sexual. With this other woman it wasn't just that, it went deeper. I felt guilt, obviously not enough to stop it. 

I eventually came clean with my wife after a period of time, plus I think she knew something was up anyway. Of course she was hurt, because I lied and was going behind her back. I destroyed her and us. Honestly I think I destroyed us anyway when I first had the idea of swinging. 

The reason I say this is, (and I can't speak for others, just for myself) Sure part of the whole swinging idea for ME was to watch my wife participate with another person. made me feel good to see her get joy from another. However, that wasn't the only reason for my idea of swinging. Really it was all about ME. I was being selfish. It was about ME wanting some new and different sex. A different body with mine. I figure who was I to want some different sexual experience and deny my wife the chance to experience the same. Like I said, I truly think she went along with it for me. I don't think it was something she actually wanted to do. 

It was all about me. What I could get from it. Having a different sex partner. I loved my wife and sex with her was wonderful, however, not so much so that I wanted it have it with just her. Swinging/open marriages can be about wanting the other spouse to be fullfilled, to see them experience joy but it can also at times be for very selfish reasons too, such as mine were. I truly believe if one is happy with just their spouse sexually, they really wouldn't want to have an open marriage/swinging lifestyle. For along time I told myself that wasn't the case, I lived in denial. I told myself over and over, it was mostly about me seeing my wife experience pleasure with another, but really it wasn't so much that, as it was about me wanting my own sexual pleasure with another. I think my wife knew this and it hurt her. 

When I cheated and not only had the physical affair with the other woman, I had that emotional connection too, it hurt my wife, so much so that she gave me divorce papers. Like I said too, I think part of it was she wasn't into the whole swinging thing like I was, and she went along with it for me. I think too part of it is, she is also upset with herself for going along with it, instead of telling me how she really felt. Perhaps she didn't tell me how she felt because maybe she figured I would have gone ahead and done it anyway. She is probably right. 

That was back in time of my life though, where it was all about ME. I have since then learned to cherish the person I'm involved with. To not cheat, to not even go there with the suggestion of having anything open. I guess over the years and after my divorce and seeing some of the damage I had done, I grew as a person. I now think I'm better than it being all about my sexual needs. I learned I loved who I am and the person I'm with. 

Its just my story though, thats all.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Jamison said:


> As a former swinger I can try to answer this.
> 
> It has alot to do with the lying and deceit part of it.
> 
> When my wife and I first started swinging, it was my idea. She went along with it, I don't think she was into it at first, but seemed to be more accepting and willing later on. Although looking back not real sure she was ever real accepting of it. I think she just went along with it.


Mistake one.


> About 3 years into it, I met a lady that for whatever reason I had an emotional connection with. I did not tell my wife. So basically I was cheating/having an affair behind her back. I kept it from her because out of all the other couples or people we would swing with, it was purely sexual. With this other woman it wasn't just that, it went deeper. I felt guilt, obviously not enough to stop it.


Oh MAN. Did your other swinging buddies read you the RIOT ACT for breaking the swinging code? Run SCREAMING from any risk to the marriage. Golden rule one. I gave a buddy of mine a RASH of hell for not doing that.



> I eventually came clean with my wife after a period of time, plus I think she knew something was up anyway. Of course she was hurt, because I lied and was going behind her back. I destroyed her and us. Honestly I think I destroyed us anyway when I first had the idea of swinging.
> 
> The reason I say this is, (and I can't speak for others, just for myself) Sure part of the whole swinging idea for ME was to watch my wife participate with another person. made me feel good to see her get joy from another.


My husband enjoyed seeing/allowing exploration if my bisexuality. Duh. Isn't like 97% of men's porn girl on girl?

<snip a bunch of honest stuff that makes you look like a jerk >

I am being silly with the comment about you looking like a jerk. Life is a one way street. You don't get to live it in reverse. Sounds like you learned a lesson. A painful lesson for you and your ex-wife. Your story is not so much about swinging but about marriage and this particular marriage's downfall.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

You're right I did learn a lesson. Just thought I'd chime in about the fact it is more about the lying and deceitful part of it when cheating, there is truth to that for sure. My lesson was, to try and not hurt anyone else with my selfishness. Whether it was cheating or the swinging. To think of others before my own sexual needs being fullfilled. It wasn't like they weren't being fullfilled by my wife, because they were. I just wanted something different, than her. She was a good person and I ruined it.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Why not share a little more of my story wrt swinging. I think it is different than what we have heard so far.

When DH and I were first married, I was bordering on prude. I had been raped and molested as a younger woman. I was raised Catholic. What a sexual nightmare! I recognized the importance of sex. My parents never hid their sexual relationship, and, apparently my Dad was a horny guy. My Mom had traditional views on it, but also recognized its role in marriage and aqcuiesed, I think. Not sure. But that is the impression I got, and the one that formed me.

Our marriage was difficult in the early years. I put out as much as I could, but mostly did not always really want to. We had very common difficulties. Difficulties I have read a gazillion times on various boards I have participate in in the following years. I went to a board and got my ass handed to me on a plate for being a nagging, controlling, witch. And damn! I deserved it! Yes, they admitted, he had culpability too. But he was not there. I was. Change me and witness the ensuing response from him. A lot of lightening up, meeting his needs with a dollop of limit setting... A year or so goes by and things improved an order of magnitude. Years go by, we are happy as clams.

Over those happy as clams years, I am motivated to develop for his sake. We discuss. We think. We have sex. And slowly, as my confidence and trust in him grows, my recognition that the patterns of prude are no longer necessary. We start getting freakier and freakier.

I had never been successful at bringing myself to orgasm though masturbation. About 6 or so years ago, on a magical evening I did. We also did some other stuff he had wanted that just made us scream in happiness. Lying in bed, he asks me if I look at women... 

Conversations ensue. He signs us up for a website. He looks at profiles and shows them to me. I grit my teeth in excitement and fear. We meet a couple. They were wonderful. They were just like us. First timers. Nervous. Very happily married. Kids. Jobs.... We had a wonderful time. DH's and my swing career is on.

We made rules. We broke rules. We talked, cried, made up. Our trust was challenged. And each time was proven. It grew and grew stronger and stronger. I now know without a shadow of a doubt that my husband loves me to distraction. He does not stay with a ball and chain. He chooses ME. And he knows I choose him. And it is not like there haven't been other offers.

We no longer swing. It became not worth the effort. The thrill and challenge were over and done and we want to be with just us. We maintain friendships with some of our swinging friends. The good ones. The very first couple are going strong. Others are together. Some split. Some went down in flaming balls of bad. 

There. Different story.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Jamison said:


> You're right I did learn a lesson. Just thought I'd chime in about the fact it is more about the lying and deceitful part of it when cheating, there is truth to that for sure. My lesson was, to try and not hurt anyone else with my selfishness. Whether it was cheating or the swinging. To think of others before my own sexual needs being fullfilled. It wasn't like they weren't being fullfilled by my wife, because they were. I just wanted something different, than her. She was a good person and I ruined it.


Good man. What is done is done. Learn and forgive.


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