# Getting ALL the sexual details?



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Getting ALL the sexual details?

I have heard that the WS needs to tell every sexual detail to the BS

I have heard that some sexual details would cause more harm that good.

What is your position on this issue?
What experiences do you have with this topic?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I wanted to know most of the details, as in how, when, why, where and how often.

Didn't ask about size, positions, etc. though.

There's a very fine line between knowing the truth and punishing 
yourself mentally with details that won't do you any good to know.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I told everything...big mistake. I should have waited for the questions and limited my answers.


I think that full repentance leads to a full openness. If you were able to hold back it might have meant that you were holding back from fully being sorry, too. 

I never had an actual affair, but I've messed up enough times in my life to see that this seems to be a consistent pattern.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Wanted to know everything, so that there would be no more secrets and know who is this person really.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I had to know just about everything. I have a very vivid imagination and there was nothing she could do that was worse than what I was thinking. I mean I could never imagine her cheating on me, so I figured anything was possible. She really caught me off guard with a couple of things she, but for the most part I'm not sorry she told me everything. Also I needed to hear all the truth, and she needed to tell the whole truth. Letting her get by without talking about it was just too easy. I wanted her to see just how her actions affected me and I wanted her confession to be something she never wanted to have to repeat.

In the end I was glad I did what I did. I was able to put aside all the bad things that didn't happen and just focus on getting past the relatively small amount of of things that did. It also forced her to talk about her sexuality. My WW never, ever, talked about sex, yet here she was doing things with another guy that she would never even talk about with me. I learned a lot about my wife through all this, and it wouldn't have happened without making her tell me all the details.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I told everything...big mistake. I should have waited for the questions and limited my answers.


Yes, but from the information you gave, it sounds as though the affair was pretty straightforward with no athletic sexual gymnastics. The fact that he forgave you speaks volumes about the way he held you in his thoughts. It's really a beautiful ending to what could have been a tragedy. I've always been so happy for you both.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

30 years ago I did not ask for any details and never have but she volunteered everything. As I drove by the movie theater where they had their first sexual encounter today I reminded myself I wish I never knew any of it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You can pretty much assume they did all the raunchy stuff that you see in porn. That's how affair sex is. 

Yet when you read the threads here, the WS wants you to believe that they just did it ONE time, they used a rubber, they thought of you, and the OM didn't finish. 

But the reality is usually: They did it anywhere and everywhere, as many times and as often as they could, complete with sexy lingerie in some cases. All the while the BS gets no sex, or sh!tty duty sex.


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

I had to know everything because I could imagine it so much worse. But luckily for me, my ww wrote a short story about it describing her encounter down to the finest detail. So I discovered this and it laid out everything for me, but instill had a lot of questions about everything. 

In the end though, her lack of trying (she still has written out text log, and timeline, and she has put back on weight she lost for other man) led to my deciding I was worth sooooo much better than she was willing to give.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I could imagine a lot worse, knowing everything would it help, maybe, maybe not. I would probably be full of rage if I had it all. Which when a new person comes along god forbid you take it out on them. I moved on with the quickness. I wasn't going to waste one more second. Worked out great, too great especially after. Was I lucky, or just still a catch at my age. I will never know and I'm good with that. Happiness is the goal. IMHO.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

I saw the videos. I didn't want to know anything more.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I told everything...big mistake. I should have waited for the questions and limited my answers.


I'd be interested in JA's response. I would think that your willingness to tell all without being asked was a clear sign of true remorse.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Eric, you never did post your whole story - you had videos ?!?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I think that an old fart like me can well imagine the various sexual intercourse positions as well as the mechanics of both male and female oral sex. Been there, done that! That's really not a subject of great curiosity for me!

And since they're, no doubt, into each other sexually, you can well imagine that they have virtually done nearly everything of a sexual nature, that you have done as their faithful spouse, and have maybe even gotten a tad more physiologically adventuresome. So why would I need to know that? Sex is sex, no matter how you connect the proper pieces!

In my case, the mind movies alone were more than torturous!
Loosing vast amounts of sleep over imaging some fat, hairy, pot-bellied lardass gloriously banging away at the woman that I stood next to at the Church alter, professing our heartfelt vows to each other before God, the Clergy, Children, Family, Friends, and some 200 other witnesses.

The only real humor in this sordid mess was just trying to imagine exactly how this jerk was able to extract his appendage out from under that massive beer gut of his to do his pre-emptory whoopee-making with. His gut is so big, that if he, in theory, had a 5 inch tool, he'd really have to take someone else's word for it!

Knowing the sexual semantics of what they did was immaterial, at best, to me! Knowing that he and she so deceptively and unwittingly conspired to end my hopes and dreams of a lifelong happy union is what absolutely lays waste to me! And to know that it was largely her who was leading him on, as well as yet another BF of hers, was the proverbial cherry on top of this adulterous sundae!*


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> No it was a clear sign of stupidity. He did not see remorse remember? It took him 30 years to see it. He says he knew I was telling the truth because it poured out of my mouth and I meant all the things I said....and therein lies the problem. He is still processing all the things I said.
> 
> He can answer you if hes up to it. This one is touchy and raw. We are hurting today.


Sending both of you best wishes, and understand if you choose to drop out of this line of discussion.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I need the details as my imagination is wild. I have found out some of those details and it's a wonder what they saw in each other in the first place....it was absolutely boring....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> No it was a clear sign of stupidity. He did not see remorse remember? It took him 30 years to see it. He says he knew I was telling the truth because it poured out of my mouth and I meant all the things I said....and therein lies the problem. He is still processing all the things I said.
> 
> He can answer you if hes up to it. This one is touchy and raw. We are hurting today.


*Mrs. JA: The primary difference between you and other WS's is that I sense your overwhelming, heartfelt remorse through your confession and your subsequent request for forgiveness. Unlike other wayward's, you have descended deep into that valley, and have now ascended, knowingly trying to ease all of the hurt and the pain that you obviously caused, asking for forgiveness for those actions, despite the ever present pain that you are still having to endure.

Please don't let anyone tell you anything different! Regarding this sordid episode and subsequent confession of yours, please consider yourself clean in God's eyes!*


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> Eric, you never did post your whole story - you had videos ?!?


I found a encryption software passwd with a keylogger. When I logged in, I found the videos. So Dday with a sledgehammer.

I am afraid to post my full story. It really does sound like European porno.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I hurt so badly for you guys...My God what was I thinking!


I don't you were really thinking then. Try to forgive yourself ma'am.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> There is a difference in spilling your freakin guts...telling positions, describing organs, on and on. I should have kept my mouth shut. My number was mistake was committing adultery...my number two mistakes was spilling my guts.
> I should have waited for all the questions...answered them honestly but not given information that was not questioned.
> When he triggers...these are the things he struggles with.
> Why cant i just make it go away....
> Thanks for listening my friends...I am struggling today


You know Mrs JA I STILL think you did the right thing. You didn't hold back, you spilled your freakin guts. Mr JA had what most of us BS can only dream about and most of us still don't have - Mr JA got the TRUTH. 

Mr JA is triggering about what he knows happened. if he didn't know he would be triggering about all the things that he THINKS might have happened. 

Somehow we BS are drawn to the physicality of it. The real pain is that WS & AP were in that intimate situation in the first place. Is it worse if he did this, or she did that? if they did it 3 times or 8, or if he hung her from a chandalier? The mechanical details don't matter imo. 

What's in the heart is what matters. 

Mr JA didn't experience the torture of having to squeeze every last detail out of you. It's horrible, teh questioning, especially if you have to do it over years as most of us had to. Ask us how what Mr JA DIDN'T have to go through feels. 

I agree with Lordmayhem - betrayal sex is going to be steamy. it's called lust. Remember those early days of lust with your H or W? It's like that in the beginning with a W or H or OW, OM. That's just how it is. Because you engage in all that lusty activity doesn't mean you are in love with someone. A LOT of lusty activity is going on in brothels around the world as I write this. Not much love involved though.  = evil grin. Lighten up you Adamses. You survived the trip and you both are 100% sure it will never happen again. That is a blessing that even those in marriages that there hasn't been an affair in don't have. You are in a VERY small minority you lucky ducks. 

Sorry you're having a bad day Mrs JA. You know what? Tomorrow will be better. It's the ebb and flow of life.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Getting ALL the sexual details?
> 
> I have heard that the WS needs to tell every sexual detail to the BS
> 
> ...


I wanted none of the details. Not a single one. I honestly think they would have broken my soul, let alone my heart.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

brokeneric said:


> I found a encryption software passwd with a keylogger. When I logged in, I found the videos. So Dday with a sledgehammer.
> 
> I am afraid to post my full story. It really does sound like European porno.


Took me a while to post my story. Tell it when you are strong enough.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Eric, you never did post your whole story - you had videos ?!?


Like member Moritori. His WS' lover sent a video to their Myspace account. That's how he found out about the affair.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *
> In my case, the mind movies alone were more than torturous!
> Loosing vast amounts of sleep over imaging some fat, hairy, pot-bellied lardass gloriously banging away at the woman that I stood next to at the Church alter, professing our heartfelt vows to each other before God, the Clergy, Children, Family, Friends, and some 200 other witnesses.
> *


Arbitrator, I don't know if it was your intention but I was hooting with laughter at your 'verbal' gymnastics while posters nattered about those 'other' gymnastics. 

I envy your gift with the English language Sir. 

Do you know, now that I think of it, my WS's AP was also a lardass. 

Anyone else got a lardass AP to report?


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Like member Moritori. His WS' lover sent a video to their Myspace account. That's how he found out about the affair.


A video online? Crazy [email protected]@ m'f***er.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

********** said:


> Arbitrator, I don't know if it was your intention but I was hooting with laughter at your 'verbal' gymnastics while posters nattered about those 'other' gymnastics.
> 
> I envy your gift with the English language Sir.
> 
> ...


Not a lardass. But the OM looked like a lady, even dressed like a lady for her in my case. At least no can say I wasn't man enough, or alpha enough.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Like member Moritori. His WS' lover sent a video to their Myspace account. That's how he found out about the affair.


Ouch!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Maybe it's just me and I'll probably catch flak for it but having an affair is a deal breaker for me. I don't care about the reasons or the excuses. I know it's wrong and she should too.

The point is that having an affair means the marriage or relationship is over and done with and the details of it doesn't matter because it can't be taken back.

It will hurt like hell and if it comes down to ending it so I can heal and get on with my life verses spending the rest of my life with someone who I will always have to keep my eye on because the trust that once was there is now a shell of itself is not worth it and if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the cheater, I would expect the same in return.

For those that have forgiven and were able to move on with their spouse or SO, I give you all the credit in the world but it's something that I will not deal with. 

I was burned by a woman early on in my life and tried to look the other way hoping that I was wrong all I got was more lies and hurt which kind of made me take this kind of a stand and I swore that I would never be put in that kind of a situation again.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. JA is indeed having a bad day. One of the things we recently promised each other is that if something triggers me or makes me feel bad, I would share it with her and we would get through it together. As good as this sounds, it can also cause depression, bad memories and an overall bad day. 

Mrs. JA asked last night if something was bothering me. I said, unfortunately a couple of things were indeed bothering me. When she asked what, I said it is really not important. She said, yes it is, tell me. I said the post she made for the benefit of a young lady about to throw her life away bothered me. She said I asked and told you I would delete it. I said, I know, but if it prevents someone else from doing this it is worth it. She said what is the second thing, I said you know a couple of people who have recently posted/PMed indicated even though their spouse had sex; it was not good for them. I was told quite the opposite years ago.

I indeed know all the explicit details. At first, I asked some questions because I had been assured by my counselor (her mom) that my imagination was much worse than reality. Guess what, reality was much worse than my imagination. I know Mrs. JA kicks herself because she filled in details that went beyond my questions. Yes, it is a hard pill to swallow and yes those details will haunt me the rest of my life.

With that said, I love Mrs. JA more than life itself. I forgive her, she has shown true remorse. We have a wonderful life. So, Mrs. JA, I know you are reading this; you have a good day at work. When you get home, let’s relax and have a wonderful evening together.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

johnAdams said:


> I indeed know all the explicit details. At first, I asked some questions because I had been assured by my counselor (her mom) that my imagination was much worse than reality. Guess what, reality was much worse than my imagination. I know Mrs. JA kicks herself because she filled in details that went beyond my questions. Yes, it is a hard pill to swallow and yes those details will haunt me the rest of my life.


For some people, they do need the sexual details. That way they know what they are forgiving. The caveat is, once it has been said, it cannot be unsaid. Others don't want the sexual details, just knowing it was a PA is enough. We're all different.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> Mrs. JA is indeed having a bad day. One of the things we recently promised each other is that if something triggers me or makes me feel bad, I would share it with her and we would get through it together. As good as this sounds, it can also cause depression, bad memories and an overall bad day.
> 
> Mrs. JA asked last night if something was bothering me. I said, unfortunately a couple of things were indeed bothering me. When she asked what, I said it is really not important. She said, yes it is, tell me. I said the post she made for the benefit of a young lady about to throw her life away bothered me. She said I asked and told you I would delete it. I said, I know, but if it prevents someone else from doing this it is worth it. She said what is the second thing, I said you know a couple of people who have recently posted/PMed indicated even though their spouse had sex; it was not good for them. I was told quite the opposite years ago.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for you both, John. The question is as ********** has suggested: would you have prolonged the agony by gradually asking all the questions anyway, and ended up in the same place?

ETA: Or, if you would not have asked, might your imagination have continued to spin over the years, going who knows where?


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

6301 said:


> Maybe it's just me and I'll probably catch flak for it but having an affair is a deal breaker for me. I don't care about the reasons or the excuses. I know it's wrong and she should too.


Understand perfectly 6301. 

I'm in the anti-R camp but I don't shout it from the rooftops as most folks on here want to try R. 

I think I can speak with authority because I did R, we're still together. 

Had I been younger and my circumstances different I would have walked away on D-day. No question. However I was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness on the same day. Yeah! Nice!

I've been through a lot, lost both parents tragically within a year of each other when I was just 22, the eldest of 5 and I had to bring up my youngest sibling, got divorced from my wealthy, selfish and egotistical first husband who engineered it so that my 3 children and I lived just above the poverty line in a small 2 bed apt all through their childhood while he lived in his mansion, my career came to a halt when the industry I worked in spiralled downwards which it does periodically and it took years to climb back up, I've had to live on another continent far away from family and friends because there was no work in my home country - quite a sob story. But still I have always managed to keep my sense of humour. 

Despite all that, by far and away my most painful experience was the discovery that my 2nd H, the man I deeply loved was having an A together with the R that followed. it has been emotionally draining for 4 years and I lost my sense of humour though it is coming back. It was not a Mr & Mrs JA type of R. I think that in ALL cases R will be a lot more painful than leaving, even in Mr & Mrs JA's case which is about as good as it gets. 

There is however one thing that was more painful for me. It was when our family lost our beloved 13 year old nephew in a car accident. We shall never heal from that. 

So yes 6301 - I'm with you all the way.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Philat said:


> I'm sorry for you both, John. The question is as ********** has suggested: would you have prolonged the agony by gradually asking all the questions anyway, and ended up in the same place?


I probably would have never asked some of the questions.

Having said that, the truth is the truth, it is hard to handle the truth.

Many WS seem to tell their BS the sex was not good, vanilla, or in someway downplayed it. Would I rather had been told lies that fit what I wanted or the truth? There are no good answers.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I love you baby...I am so sorry for hurting you. I wish god I wish I could take it away.
> 
> You are my life...


Wish my wife would have said that to me now. Here I am again, trying to give CPR to my marriage.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> I probably would have never asked some of the questions.
> 
> Having said that, the truth is the truth, it is hard to handle the truth.
> 
> Many WS seem to tell their BS the sex was not good, vanilla, or in someway downplayed it. Would I rather had been told lies that fit what I wanted or the truth? There are no good answers.


I'm not in your shoes, but in my own situation I want the whole detailed truth so I know what I'm dealing with, or more importantly who I'm really dealing with.

ETA: And I'm pretty sure I don't have it yet.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

johnAdams said:


> I probably would have never asked some of the questions.
> 
> Having said that, the truth is the truth, it is hard to handle the truth.
> 
> Many WS seem to tell their BS the sex was not good, vanilla, or in someway downplayed it. Would I rather had been told lies that fit what I wanted or the truth? There are no good answers.


If its any consolation, some BS's never, ever get the truth, and hence no closure. That makes the suffering even worse, going thru life wanting the truth and never getting it because the WS was never remorseful or truthful. Think about it. At least you got the truth.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

What the willingness to disclose details prove is a willingness to be transparent and honest on the part of the cheating spouse. So he/she needs to be willing to tell whatever the betrayed spouse wants.

For the betrayed spouse, it's a be careful what you ask kind of situation. I wanted to know enough about the broad strokes, didn't want to know too many specifics. I was realistic enough to know the answers would make me feel worse, not better.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> But the truth hurts him so badly...


As lordmayhem said, we're all different. For me, having the truth withheld or being lied to would hurt more. I wish my W would put it all on the table once and for all.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> I probably would have never asked some of the questions.
> Having said that, the truth is the truth, it is hard to handle the truth.
> Many WS seem to tell their BS the sex was not good, vanilla, or in someway downplayed it. Would I rather had been told lies that fit what I wanted or the truth? There are no good answers.


No Mr JA, there are no good answers regarding the rough and tumble of life. I have a theory about healing from pain: There is no such thing as healing. Rather we learn to *carry* the pain and it gradually gets consigned to a place at the back of our mind where it doesn't disrupt our daily lives, our ability to love, our hopes and our dreams. 

Imagine one day you are told that for the rest of your life you must carry a knapsack full of rocks on your back. You put it on your back and slowly get used to it. As time goes by you realise that on some days it feels very heavy, yet on others you forget it's even there. 

I guess today is a heavy rock day.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> At least you got the truth.


Yes, I am confident I was told the truth. I guess a couple of minor consolations I got out of our sex talk. She told me she told the OM that her husband was better at sex than him, and for what it is worth that my c*** is bigger and that I smell better. As Mrs. JA has stated, our sex conversation was calm, in bed, in the dark. I just laid there and listened. I showed little to no emotion during the conversation and let it continue matter of factly.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

********** said:


> I guess today is a heavy rock day.


Unfortunately, yes I think it is for both Mrs. JA and I.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I have a very vivid imagination, so if my H had a PA I would want to know everything. Knowing is better than wondering. It would also help me decide if it would be R or D. 

With that said, I almost divorced for EA. Through this process I learned that I will D for a PA. But I would still want details. I deserve honesty.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> She told me she told the OM that her husband was better at sex than him


John, I'm being careful not to appear prurient, but wouldn't the above trump all of the disturbing details?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

yeah_right said:


> I have a very vivid imagination, so if my H had a PA I would want to know everything. Knowing is better than wondering. It would also help me decide if it would be R or D.
> 
> With that said, I almost divorced for EA. Through this process I learned that I will D for a PA. But I would still want details. I deserve honesty.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That is exactly my situation as well.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Philat said:


> John, I'm being careful not to appear prurient, but wouldn't the above trump all of the disturbing details?


No.

I could write a complete porno on what I know. I guess it was somewhat likened to if you could have sex with a movie star. People often "kid" that they would give their spouse a pass for that.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> No.
> 
> I could write a complete porno on what I know. I guess it was somewhat likened to if you could have sex with a movie star. People often "kid" that they would give their spouse a pass for that.


Ouch. Sorry.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

We all handle it differently. Some need the details. Some don't want them. It's difficult enough to deal with the idea that the person who swore to be faithful to you wasn't. And the least likely person on the planet to cheat on you did just that. 

I didn't get the details on his PA 30 years ago (or ever) because he never admitted they were more than good friends -- despite the mountain of evidence I had. I let it go then. The second time I didn't let it go. Due to distance, it was an EA with the same AP as before and I found the emails. As hard as it is to handle the idea of your spouse being physically unfaithful, it's equally difficult to handle the idea that they told someone else they loved them. They both crush you. 

You don't really get over your spouse's affair. You learn to live with it. The triggers can last forever. The worst for me was her name. I hate that name and even now that I'm divorced, and can be friends with him instead of hating him, I still cringe when I meet someone with her name.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I think knowing the extent of any/all details is person specific. In order to attempt to forgive with a path to R, knowing all the details would have been a requirement for me. My story did not work out that way.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Philat said:


> John, I'm being careful not to appear prurient, but wouldn't the above trump all of the disturbing details?


Whether right or wrong, I cared nothing for details. It didn't even then or now occur to me that sex with someone else could be better. What killed me was the betrayal, the cracking of the truth that I could completely trust her.

She went astray because he was an urban cowboy with a horse and she had just bought one.

She , after being caught , said we should date other people. I said, cool. She didn't care for my tone..........lol.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Shell dad,

Does your wife know that her extra weight bothers you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

I say if you need to know then you need to know. For some it's gonna really affect and kill any chance for reconciliation. I can only speak for me. I could have. MAYBE. Forgiven an EA o maybe, maybe even a one night stand with an immediate confession. But once I found out about the affair, I knew it was over. Game. Set. Match. 

But I saw pictures. In my line of work you see things. Burn victims, car crashes, suicides all sorts of really grotesque and visceral way's people meet their end. I have never been sick to my stomach with the sights nor smells of my profession. I have an incredibly strong stomach for that sort of thing. 

When I saw the pics I threw up. It was that devastating. So there's the warning to betrayed men who are really looking and diffing for things. You might not like what you find.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I would need to know everything, but more to justify the liklihood that there was no hope for R.

Something that multiple people have noticed about me is my knack for cutting people off emotionally. Sad as it at be, I think it was learned behavior due to my abusive marriage. My friends laughingly refer to it as my light switch. 

I don't bode well when it comes to emotional torture... much easier to just remove that person from having an effect. 

I completely admire anyone that has it in them to R.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

RClawson said:


> 30 years ago I did not ask for any details and never have but she volunteered everything. As I drove by the movie theater where they had their first sexual encounter today I reminded myself I wish I never knew any of it.


This is one of the many reasons why people need to move far away after an affair.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

I wanted all the details, as graphic as they could be. I still don't know if that was the right choice. :scratchhead: In some regards I think it caused me to hang on to the hurt longer. However, I no how I am and I don't think I would have gotten over the doubts I had without them. I really don't know if it's better or not because I never experienced the not. I wish I didn't know now but now I'm past the initial phases of R. In the beginning I think I needed to know.

This is a question I've wondered about before and started a similar thread. It might explain my position better but reading through it makes me realize how much I've changed since then.
http://http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/62719-how-much-should-you-know.html


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I hurt so badly for you guys...My God what was I thinking!


It is not what the WW tells her BH what she did with the OM it is how she told her BH.

Example:
How was the sex?

The OM rocked my world he was hung like a horse, is more then the BH asked.

It was good. Is honest, does not rub the BH's face in details that he did not ask for.

Now if the BH then asks further such as was it the best, and it was the WW has to say yes.

Though yes is all she has to say. The BH did not ask about the OM's equipment.

This is letting the BH control to level of detail that gets told.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> I probably would have never asked some of the questions.
> 
> Having said that, the truth is the truth, it is hard to handle the truth.
> 
> Many WS seem to tell their BS the sex was not good, vanilla, or in someway downplayed it. Would I rather had been told lies that fit what I wanted or the truth? There are no good answers.


To go back and say this is how I would have gone about asking my WW about her affair now is kind of hard to do.

Though I will ask you this any way.

If you had asked your WW if the sex was good with the OM and she answered that it was good, would you of then asked why it was good?

Do you think you would of stopped digging or would you of gone down till you hit bedrock?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> Yes, I am confident I was told the truth. I guess a couple of minor consolations I got out of our sex talk. She told me she told the OM that her husband was better at sex than him, and for what it is worth that my c*** is bigger and that I smell better. As Mrs. JA has stated, our sex conversation was calm, in bed, in the dark. I just laid there and listened. I showed little to no emotion during the conversation and let it continue matter of factly.


How does a BH know that he got the whole truth?

My suspicious mind say's was the above revelation made at the end of the affair talk. Or on the day after. Because if a WW see's that the details knocked her BH for a loop she has to be mightily tempted to throw her BH something to sooth his crushed self esteem.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

theroad said:


> How does a BH know that he got the whole truth?
> 
> My suspicious mind say's was the above revelation made at the end of the affair talk. Or on the day after. Because if a WW see's that the details knocked her BH for a loop she has to be mightily tempted to throw her BH something to sooth his crushed self esteem.


After my wife's affair, I had trouble maintaining an erection for a while and I lost my confidence and began finishing much, much quicker than I had before. (That was my fault, of course. Thanks, love!)

And that was without any details. God knows how I'd have been with the details. Much worse, I think.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

theroad said:


> How does a BH know that he got the whole truth?
> 
> My suspicious mind say's was the above revelation made at the end of the affair talk. Or on the day after. Because if a WW see's that the details knocked her BH for a loop she has to be mightily tempted to throw her BH something to sooth his crushed self esteem.


No, this way intertwined in the whole conversation. Not an afterthought. Not something later to make me feel good. Just matter of fact in the conversation. The way it was told makes me know she was telling the truth. I do not think at the time she was thinking of what may hurt me...or make me feel better. Just the facts. A calm conversation, how was the sex? Only asking questions when something did not make sense. In which she would explain.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

theroad said:


> To go back and say this is how I would have gone about asking my WW about her affair now is kind of hard to do.
> 
> Though I will ask you this any way.
> 
> ...



This is hard to answer since the whole conversation was kind of surreal. She never said he rocked my world or it was great or anything of that nature. It was just the facts.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> But the truth hurts him so badly...


Mrs. John, NO man ever wants to hear that his wife feels the OM was a better lover in any way. If that is indeed what you told him, that would be a very bitter pill to swallow. You are fortunate that he obviously loves you with his whole heart and cared enough for you to forgive you and stay in the marriage with you. I'm very pleased for you two, but there is no way I could have forgiven that. I'm not sure what that says about me.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

*Re: Re: Getting ALL the sexual details?*



Mrs. John Adams said:


> **********...that was a great analogy hon! Thank you. Today is a heavy rock day. As the ww I have to carry both knapsacks and some days I need some help. You all are so helpful...


....knapsack? .....I'd be amazed ...and grateful if my ww would carry a wallet's worth of the s__t she dumped on me.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams DID NOT INTENTIONALLY hurt Me Adams yesterday with one of her posts.
Mrs. Adams DID NOT INTENTIONALLY hurt Mr. Adams with all the details
Although it was all NOT INTENTIONALLY it still hurts Mr. Adams.
I never meant to hurt my 9 year old son when I wrecked our ATV with him riding on the back climbing hills but he was hurt anyway and I felt like crap
My guess is that is one of the reasons Mrs. Adams and Mr. Adams are not having a good day is because of thepast mistakes.



I do not know of any way to erase the pain of both but would just like to say this

*Mr. and Mrs. Adams strength on this TAM forum is enormous!!!
They are willing to open up their heart, soul and emotions (sometimes getting cut to the bone) so that others can be helped.*


Mr. Adams is willing to take punishment that rips at his heart, including the details that torture him. WHY?

*Because he has true love for Mrs. Adams. One of the great sayings and one of the truest is that there is no greater love than to lay down your life for the one you love. Mr. Adams has laid down his emotional life for THIRTY YEARS!!!!*


Mrs. Adams is the most remorseful woman that I have ever read on this forum. *So remorseful that she has proven her remorse with ACTIONS for THIRTY YEARS!!!!*She so loves her husband that she will be driven to the ground if she hurts him.
I would be devastated if my wife hurt me and was not affected.

Mrs. Adams is so very fortunate that she has Mr. Adams for her husband and she knows this very well and has stated that many times. I do not where Mr. Adams got it but he has a great capacity to love and has PROVEN IT for Thirty Years. I happen to believe that his forgiveness and love will even be taken with him in 30-40 years from now when he is in another place for eternity. True acts of love are one of the few things that last forever.
This spiritual truth has been said thousands of years ago and in our time by a song that ends with;* “…and in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make”*OK OK so now you know I am from the 1960s and I love the Beatles music.



*Mrs. Adams is a GREAT example of true humility and repentance.* I would not blame her one bit if she left this TAM forum and never came back. *Her presence and openess here has given WS and the rest of us BS sinners a great gift. *That gift is that one of the worst acts that a person can do to a marriage can be defeated and true love restored even if it does have remaining pain.


*Even with the pain that they have does anyone doubt that Mr. Adams truly loves Mrs. Adams?*


*Even with her consequences does any one doubt that MRS. Adams truly loves Mr. Adams?*

I know a ton of married couples that have never committed infidelity and have no where near the love these two have for each other.

It is a fact that infidelity has hurt Mr. and Mrs. Adams but the remorse, repentance, the humility, forgiveness, and love that they have demonstrated will be rewarded here and now and forever!!!


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

thummper said:


> Mrs. John, NO man ever wants to hear that his wife feels the OM was a better lover in any way. If that is indeed what you told him, that would be a very bitter pill to swallow. You are fortunate that he obviously loves you with his whole heart and cared enough for you to forgive you and stay in the marriage with you. I'm very pleased for you two, but there is no way I could have forgiven that. I'm not sure what that says about me.


For the record, John says Mrs JA told the OM that John was the better lover (I think I've got that right).


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

In 2011 I got the "it was quick and we fell asleep" story. I knew she was lying, I knew her better that that.

I got everything I needed in 2013. She answered all my questions and still does today without hesitation. I did not ask for everything, I heard the recording.

It does get better with time. I am glad I asked all I did, at first it hurt like he*l.

I think it is up to each person to get what they need. I wanted to know quite a bit.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I NEVER said the om was a better lover...John was a better lover...
> 
> if you read what John said...You will see what i told him.
> 
> There is no doubt... I absolutely do not deserve the love of my husband...I ask him often why he stayed.


Better lover? That doesn't really matter (well, obviously it does to us men, our egos get bent out of shape, yeah?) but in the final analysis what matters is not who is the better lover, but who is the better man?

And *you* know the answer to that, don't you, Mrs Adams?:smthumbup:


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Better lover? That doesn't really matter (well, obviously it does to us men, our egos get bent out of shape, yeah?) but in the final analysis what matters is not who is the better lover, but who is the better man?
> 
> And *you* know the answer to that, don't you, Mrs Adams?:smthumbup:


JA is the better lover for MrsJA because he is the one who loves her. Which also makes him the better man.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

From what I've read, it seems this is kind of a lose lose situation, however I think it should always be the BS decision if they want the details or not.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I really did not want to hear any of that. For the simple reason that I couldn't unhear it. I was traumatized enough as it is, and I figured each detail would be an additional potential flashback I didn't want for the rest of my life. Where and when and how many meetings and how it was pulled off without my finding out - all of that was important to discuss, but I made it clear to my WS that I wasn't going to ask for sex details. I knew I simply could not handle that.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I NEVER said the om was a better lover...John was a better lover...
> 
> if you read what John said...You will see what i told him.
> 
> There is no doubt... *I absolutely do not deserve the love of my husband...*I ask him often why he stayed.


That's nonsense!!! Yes you do. He could see it, even if you felt you weren't worthy of him. You must be quite a lady, and I mean that in the nicest way!  There are sooooo few happy endings on this forum. So much heartache and sorrow. My heart rejoices when I see two people like you who are moving heaven and earth to make their marriage a special refuge for each other. There's so much pain and betrayal in the world, it's just nice to see two people who have transcended that. The word "love" is often overused and misused, but you two represent the concept of real love more than any couple I've ever seen. You'd be the kind or people I would love (there's that word again. ) that I would be proud to call my friends.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Not to turn this into this Mrs. John Adams fan club. But I have to say I respect the way you present yourself on here especially the reverence you have for your husband. It seems you see your husband a little bit in a lot of the betrayed spouses and that comes across in your compassionate responses even to people who are a little too harsh with you. Sometimes it takes more strength to not hit back.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

And I don't doubt that for a minute.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> But the truth hurts him so badly...


Mrs JA, for me the non-disclosure which is after all lying, hurts far more than any sexual antics that might have occurred, especially when I have begged and pleaded for the information. Some BS would not. 

In my case I'm still getting the "We just kissed". That took about 3 years to come out. My instinct tells me not and it has been right on the mark on everything through this unfortunate experience. There was more than one OW in this mess and the "We just kissed" OW - OW#2 was always the one I felt might have been a PA as I saw some of her texts. I was right. Kissing to me crosses the line from EA to PA. 

I feel there are other details I don't know. I even emailed the main character in the show, OW#1, with whom he had an intense internet EA with for 9 months and then went to visit. There was sexual talk only once when she was clearly drunk. He said he was going to bed and she replied, "Oh good, you're coming to bed". He sent smiles back. No partner should be doing that. Again, it is in PA territory for me. Do you agree? 

There was certainly flirting in the emails to OW#1 which were a few times a week from the outset. In his first email he told her he was single. We were not yet married. She's a writer in his home country and it started with him commenting on one of her articles. So HE chased HER down. It was a mutual adoration society and he flattered her relentlessly. His excuse? He missed his native language.:rofl: Yeah right. What an insult to me to say that. 

How this culminated in my marrying him is another story. In short when we married, I thought I had the truth. I only knew about OW#1 and didn't even dream there were others. I have become a snoop 'extrordinaire' through this. Give me a name & I will soon tell you what they had for breakfast.   

Anyway he met OW#1 eventually. She is from his home country a continent away. We went there on holiday but he went ahead of me to spend time with his family and used the opportunity to drive to her town TWICE which was a 2.5 hour drive away, to meet her. He always claimed he didn't stay there but I always felt he did at least on one of the nights. That took 2 years to come out and again I was right. Mr JA, if you are reading this, it might give you some idea of the torture that a BS goes through to determine the truth. 

I know they didn't stay together all night because on both nights he sent her what would have been a 'goodnight' text. The first one was at midnight as he drove back and the second when he stayed overnight, he sent her a text at 2:30am. Had he been with her he would not have been texting her. He met me at the airport the next day.  Imagine being with her until 2:30AM the night before and meeting me the next day? It was nothing short of callous and cruel. After meeting OW#1, it escalated to daily texts which was all through our 'romantic' 1 month holiday. I discovered it on the second last day of our holiday ironically when we were in Paris, the most romantic city on earth where my darling second son now lives.    Ouch!

He couldn't have been more romantic through that holiday :scratchhead: - compartmentalisation I guess. My world fell apart that night as I gazed out our hotel room at the Eiffel Tower.   . I emailed her recently which shows my desperation for the truth. She was very sympathetic as my WH had told her he was single. She said she didn't know what to say and added they were not lovers which I feel is the truth and I have verified it with the texts. She finished with "I am SO sorry". She's a writer and I like her. After she met him she wrote an article on her website about him and their meetings and how she was so glad they met because she had never expected to meet him. She also wrote that all the waitresses were either flirting with him or hostile towards him. He's tall and handsome. The tone indicated that she was not happy about it and I thought it was written with a certain degree of ownership. If he was simply a friend she would have laughed about it and certainly not written an article for goodness sake. 

However after I emailed she wrote a article about ME on her website and about what happened with a reference to men preying on women using the internet.:rofl: Sweet revenge for me I suppose. At the end she said I was an amazing lady and she would like to meet me. Now wouldn't that be funny, all 3 of us having dinner.   . 

Sheesh, I rambled on. I guess today it's my turn to have a bad day. It all just came out as it does sometimes. Anyway, I'm a rambler when I post much as I try not to be. I doubt many posters get to the end but it feels good to release it and posters can skip past it given its length. I too am a writer though it isn't my profession. 

The truth can hurt for sure but I have always hated to be in a 'not knowing' situation both in and out of marriage. 

Because I feel strongly that lies are still being told, I also feel as if true R is evading me. In all other respects he is a truly amazing husband and has put up with my topsy turvy emotions for 4 years. I have often told him to pack his bags or tell me the truth. But, I didn't follow through. Perhaps I would have the truth if I did. What do you think and other posters who might be reading this? I fear he is terrified of hurting me further.

Perhaps you and/or Mr JA could write a post that I could show my WH which might finally get it through to him. This thread is highly appropriate. For the record, he is the type of man who keeps things to himself. He would NEVER come on here for instance.

Thank you for reading. I hope you and Mr JA's 'knapsack of rocks' is feeling lighter today.


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## Mrs Alone (Feb 9, 2014)

Mrs JA, this is my first ever post and I feel sad to hear your pain. I am struggling today as well but am on the other side of the situation to you. Your post made me feel sad as I talked openly today to my husband (the WS) about my own pain and I could see how hard it was for him to hear. I don't do these things deliberately to hurt him (and I know he knows this), but as we have agreed to keep the situation to ourselves, I have no one else to talk to. Thanks for reminding me to be mindful of how much this hurts him as well.


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Shell dad,
> 
> Does your wife know that her extra weight bothers you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I've told her several times but I get a lot of the same excuse making that I heard the whole time we were together. But what is odd, is that it never bothered me so badly at all before. But once she lost for that prick, I was like no way am I going to be that guy who stays even after my wife lets herself go once I take her back. 

She would have to be perfect in all other ways for me in order for it to weigh out against the infidelity, and even then it would be hard. 

She proved that the minute she really has the motivation to do it, she did it. The cold hard fact is that she just never cared enough about me to lose it for me. But in her eyes, he was worth it, I was not.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I NEVER said the om was a better lover...John was a better lover...
> 
> if you read what John said...You will see what i told him.
> 
> There is no doubt... I absolutely do not deserve the love of my husband...I ask him often why he stayed.


Aha! I think for some reason -lack of confidence, other issues, perhaps?- you probably *never* thought you deserved the love of your husband. From day one onwards.

Which could have been the root cause of your decision to stray in the first place.

So the affair was probably some sort of plan b for when your husband found someone better than you.

However, your husband had already found someone better than 'you', or rather the 'you' you thought 'you' were. He had found the 'you' that he saw, the *real* you, the 'you' you couldn't perceive because you were inside you, not outside you, like your husband was.

And now you might start to understand why he stayed with you.:smthumbup:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

86857 said:


> *In my case I'm still getting the "We just kissed". That took about 3 years to come out. My instinct tells me not and it has been right on the mark on everything through this unfortunate experience. There was more than one OW in this mess and the "We just kissed" OW - OW#2 was always the one I felt might have been a PA as I saw some of her texts. I was right. Kissing to me crosses the line from EA to PA.
> 
> I feel there are other details I don't know. I even emailed the main character in the show, OW#1, with whom he had an intense internet EA with for 9 months and then went to visit. There was sexual talk only once when she was clearly drunk. He said he was going to bed and she replied, "Oh good, you're coming to bed". He sent smiles back. No partner should be doing that. Again, it is in PA territory for me. Do you agree? *
> 
> ...



*"We just kissed" is nothing more than just "cheaterspeak" for "I humped her ever-loving brains out!" No you don't need all night to do that. All you need is an uninterrupted window of no more than a hour or so. The EA which he clearly had is the precursor to the physical thing. And if your H's oxytocin levels were anything close to normal, then the arrow situated beneath his belt buckle obeyed his hormones and pointed squarely in the OW's general direction, leading him all of the way, not only for a kiss to supply him more oxytocin with, but a little testosterone release as well from a well-courted piece of strange! After all, a lake of testosterone can certainly build up in nine months time if he's not losing it at home with his spouse. Happily-married men generally don't "give themselves a hand" in this department unless absolutely forced to do so by having no other outlet for sexual release!

Does he think that you're an absolute fool? Given the apt description of your narrative, it's rather obvious that he must!*


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> No, this way intertwined in the whole conversation. Not an afterthought. Not something later to make me feel good. Just matter of fact in the conversation. The way it was told makes me know she was telling the truth. I do not think at the time she was thinking of what may hurt me...or make me feel better. Just the facts. A calm conversation, how was the sex? Only asking questions when something did not make sense. In which she would explain.


I do not want to plant seeds of doubt but a WW that can be slick enough to hide an affair. Can be slick enough to see the way her BH is handling her confession to through him some feel good scraps.

I have not gotten any where near half of the story from my wife. If she was to sit me down today and tell every thing. I do not think that she was still holding something back.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

theroad said:


> I do not want to plant seeds of doubt but a WW that can be slick enough to hide an affair. Can be slick enough to see the way her BH is handling her confession to through him some feel good scraps.
> 
> I have not gotten any where near half of the story from my wife. If she was to sit me down today and tell every thing. I do not think that she was still holding something back.


I hear you and agree that many times the best you are going to get from your wayward spouse is trickle truth or a watered down version of what happened.

In my situation, I am confident that is not what happened. Due to the almost strangeness of what happened and the conversations that followed, I am confident I have the whole story. I guess I could tell why I know this, but, that would take several pages and force me to rehash things I would rather not think about.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Nostromo said:


> From what I've read, it seems this is kind of a lose lose situation, however I think it should always be the BS decision if they want the details or not.


It is not a lose lose situation.

It is a win win situation.

Not getting the truth will haunt the BH for 30+ plus years. He will take needing answers till his last day.

How is it winning being haunted everyday past D day from not knowing what happened?

Then if all the details come out and they make the BH divorce his WW how is that losing?

So your position is that a BH is winning when a WW thinks that it is better for the WW to withhold the truth to prevent a divorce and force her BH to live the rest of his life based on a lie?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> I hear you and agree that many times the best you are going to get from your wayward spouse is trickle truth or a watered down version of what happened.
> 
> In my situation, I am confident that is not what happened. Due to the almost strangeness of what happened and the conversations that followed, I am confident I have the whole story. I guess I could tell why I know this, but, that would take several pages and force me to rehash things I would rather not think about.


I understand and have no desire for you to do so.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> The road....I hear what you are saying. Not that it matters whether you believe me or not..
> 
> I am a talker...John is a very quiet man. He listens. When I told my husband about my affair I poured my guts out for HOURS...for the past thirty years. I told him details, I told him emotions, I told him times, places...on and on. Let me also say this....EVEN if I left something out...which I did not but let me make a point...it would not change the outcome. I committed adultery...I lied...I am responsible for what I did....and I have spent thirty years trying to be the best wife I know how to be. Have I made mistakes along the way...Of course I have....has he...yes. We are committed to making this marriage the best it can be...knapsacks full of rocks...we will cross the finish line...together. Of this I am certain.



I was not accusing you of not being honest on your D day.

Though how long much time was there between the end of your affair and you telling your BH about the affair?


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

theroad said:


> It is not a lose lose situation.
> 
> It is a win win situation.
> 
> ...



No of course not, as I said I think it should be up to the individual BS to decide if they want the graphic details or not just as in any trauma. When I said "lose lose situation" I was thinking more along the line of the details being much worse than the BS had imagined. Like if he/she finds out the AP was far more attractive/better lover/more interesting personality etc, then the BS is likely gonna feel just as bad if not worse than they would of without all the gory details, "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Still I think no WS has the right to make that decision for them. Some people need to know exactly how it happened and others [probably a minority] will never be able to get the new images it creates out of their mind. I think some people are just wired differently.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

After a betrayal you feel as if you no longer know your SO. Then you figure out that this is someone different than you thought he/she was. So who is this person, and how does she/he think? Getting all the details is part of the process of answering this question.

I now think there is a difference in degree, though. Details regarding time, place, number of encounters and other circumstances are one thing ("so when you said you were going shopping you really went to his place that time; so you first kissed in the park and the following week went to the Marriot at lunchtime"), but details that create a video in your mind of the actual blow by blow are quite another. I definitely want the former, not sure about the latter. I THINK I'd want the whole shebang, but ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> About 2 weeks


The reason I asked for the time was is that some WW's claim it has been too long for me to remember details.

I wonder how much you would remember now and how much you will remember one year out from D day.

You see many a BH does not find out about an affair for years after the affair is over. Some WW claim that after two years they do not remember much.

Then you read where there are WW's that can remember everything about their affair from twenty years ago.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

My WH said he couldn't remember dates and the whens etc cause it just wasn't important enough. I find it hard to believe since he can remember just about anything else in our history he wants to recall just not about his affair. Yeah the tricks of the mind.....


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> After my wife's affair, I had trouble maintaining an erection for a while and I lost my confidence and began finishing much, much quicker than I had before. (That was my fault, of course. Thanks, love!)
> And that was without any details. God knows how I'd have been with the details. Much worse, I think.


Still happens to me. :scratchhead:



thummper said:


> Mrs. John, NO man ever wants to hear that his wife feels the OM was a better lover in any way. If that is indeed what you told him, that would be a very bitter pill to swallow. You are fortunate that he obviously loves you with his whole heart and cared enough for you to forgive you and stay in the marriage with you. I'm very pleased for you two, but there is no way I could have forgiven that. I'm not sure what that says about me.


Yep, I got that as well...however, the nastiness and vindictiveness at that point was almost like "I don't know my wife anymore".

As for 'details' - I never asked so I never got (and in her opinion, we were 'separated' so what she did with her boyfriend was her business) - I did manage to break into her iPhone one morning when I was over only to be caught:_ "sure, go ahead and look through it - but you won't like what you find"._

I decided not to.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Since I told John about my affair two weeks after it occurred...I had complete recollection.
> Thirty years later...I have forgotten some things and to be honest I am just as happy to not remember. But in my case...it really doesn't matter whether i remember every single detail or not since I confessed thirty years ago.


But what if it is now 30 years after the affair ended. And your BH has his D day now.

Your BH wants every detail.

How much would you be able to recall and tell him about the affair?

Is what you have forgotten important? Silly to ask what did you forget but can not find a better way to ask.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Slight tangent - Affair Sex (and a funny story).

Whether they just sat on a park bench holding hands or had a 4 hour session in the bedroom, isn't the damage already done? 

Affair sex is hot because it's 'new' just as it was 'new' with BS and WS. The 'stolen moments' aspect notches it up a few degrees more I suppose. But how many WS actually leave their BS for OM/OW because the sex is hotter? 

If WS's sex with OM/OW *wasn't* as good as with BS, would it make the pain any less?

I have a WH who swears he and OW "just kissed". Now stop guffawing y'all.  He may be right because they really didn't have much opportunity. But I'm going with my instinct and so I don't believe him. 
So how would I feel if he said he had worked on her for 4 hours in the bedroom and gave her 18 orgasms? I would feel a whole lot better. Yep! Because at last I was getting the truth. 

When the subject of affair sex comes up, I always feel that the physical part is harder to accept for men. Women struggle more with the emotional part. You see I do know for sure that my WH passionately embraced OW. Just once was enough to make him *not* my best friend, *not* my protector, *not* my soul mate, *not* my other half. That's a whole lot of 'nots'.

One kiss is enough they say. Everything else is. . . well it's just everything else. 

What if there wasn't even a kiss?

Is the pain of a PA worse than the pain of an EA? 
Let's use a scale of 1-100. 
In my view an EA is. . . about 95. 
And a PA is. . . about 99. 
Yes a PA is worse. 

After all isn't affair sex just the physical part of something far deeper? The part called betrayal? That's where the real wounding occurs. 

For me the need to know is driven by the fact that I just want to know that my WS can be capable again of what he was capable of before - of telling me the truth. It's the least I deserve. 

==========================================
For some reason I'm reminded of a scene in the TV sitcom "Friends" after Ross had a ONS. Rachel, his gf, fiery red with anger, asked him how the sex was. He thought for a moment and said "Different". 
"Different? She yelled. "Different?" Then she stormed away.

Back at the coffee house Ross, not the smartest of men, told his guy friends that she asked him how the sex was. 
Chandler said "You did tell her it was terrible, right?" 
They all looked expectantly at Ross. 
He said, "I told her it was different".
The guys put their heads in their hands and there was a collective groan
"Oh no! Don't tell us you said 'different'."
Ross said, "But she was."


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

********** said:


> Slight tangent - Affair Sex (and a funny story).
> 
> *Whether they just sat on a park bench holding hands or had a 4 hour session in the bedroom, isn't the damage already done?*
> 
> ...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

To be frank, the generalities I know about my ex-husband's sexual encounters with the OW (that would be plural) are already quite bad enough, thanks. Worse, even, than my considerable imaginative capabilities would have provided. 

When the broad strokes encompass things like your husband and two of his close friends all taking multiple turns having unprotected sex with a stranger they'd just met at a party while you were in the hospital with pregnancy complications....well, I just didn't particularly see the need for any finer details. Of that particular encounter or any of the 4 others that he confessed to that night or the 2 additional ones I later discovered on my own before our divorce was final. It was already worse than anything I would have dreamed up. I mean, seriously, what sorts of things was I going to ask at that point that wouldn't have just been more of a mindfvck for me?


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Rowan said:


> To be frank, the generalities I know about my ex-husband's sexual encounters with the OW (that would be plural) are already quite bad enough, thanks. Worse, even, than my considerable imaginative capabilities would have provided.
> 
> When the broad strokes encompass things like your husband and two of his close friends all taking multiple turns having unprotected sex with a stranger they'd just met at a party while you were in the hospital with pregnancy complications....well, I just didn't particularly see the need for any finer details. Of that particular encounter of any of the 4 others that he confessed to that night or the 2 additional ones I later discovered on my own before our divorce was final. It was already worse than anything I would have dreamed up. I mean, seriously, what sorts of things was I going to ask at that point that wouldn't have just been more of a mindfvck for me?


You have been through hell.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

brokeneric said:


> You have been through hell.


Actually, I think hell was the 2+ years before the night he confessed, that I'd spent slogging through a difficult false R for what I thought was only a single, though long-term, EA. With a WS who seemed to swing back and forth between remorseful and not, while also managing to gaslight me into thinking all of the problems in our marriage were really a result of my myriad "issues". Finding out he'd been a serial cheater throughout the entire marriage, even with just the most general of situational information, just ended it entirely for me. It wasn't my "issues" or my fault. He was just not a good husband, he never had been, and he didn't particularly want to be. I could stop twisting myself into knots trying to fix myself and the marriage enough to make things okay. It set me free.

I was grateful to know. I just didn't want more details. I think details are often wanted by people who still think they might want to attempt to reconcile. For me, at least, learning about the serial cheating closed that door, and with it the desire to hear more.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

I had to know it all. My imagination was running wild. I am a very visual person, and I was seeing everything imaginable in my mind. So, I asked for it all, where, times, size, positions, durations, oral, even how many o's. I wanted every little detail and EI gave it. She would answer until I said stop. Her A lasted for over a year so there was a lot to get and she gave me all the info I could handle and then some. We would both be in tears usually through this. God was in painful, do I wish I did it differently, no. 

Some of the details I could have lived without knowing, but EI was being truthful and open, so in getting the details like I did, I also felt I was getting the truth. Her honesty was painful. Then, over time, I would ask a lot of the same questions over and over, the answers were always the same, her story never changed, it was always very consistent. This helped me, the details hurt, but getting them helped me know I was also learning everything about her A. I needed that. I needed her to help me piece this puzzle together. 

If I asked she answered. If she felt there was something important I didn't ask about she would tell me that too. Sometimes that was good, other times it was bad. There were certain things said that I didn't need to know, but I learned them anyway. She didn't know and according to TAM you tell it all, everything, so she did. 

Now, in learning all those details, I have to admit, they were the hardest to get over, some still haunt me today. My imagination was probably worse than reality, but in saying that, reality was traumatic. 

I can't say EI held back, she didn't, and I'm glad. I feel I got all the info I wanted, and that I got the truth, and that's important to me.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I told everything...big mistake. I should have waited for the questions and limited my answers.


How many threads have been started about trickle truth. Getting it all out there meant that you can't hurt him again. 
otherwise every little bit more of a confession would have have felt like he was being cheated on over and over and over again.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

"If I asked she answered."-B1 

That I think is the crux of the issue. A truly repentant person will do whatever it takes [nothing immoral of course] to help the person they have hurt heal.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Getting ALL the sexual details?
> 
> I have heard that the WS needs to tell every sexual detail to the BS
> 
> ...


My take is whether or not a WS thinks giving all details will make it worse is irrelevant. If the BS asks, the WS should be obligated to tell them.

I personally think details will make it worse. Some BS will say they need it to be able to move on, obviously hoping the true details won't be as bad as they imagined...but it always is.

Having said all that, details don't matter. What matters is they cheated, period. But if a BS asks, I think a WS should tell them. They owe them answers on whatever questions they have no matter if it will make things worse or not.
If you don't have honesty, you don't have a marriage.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I told everything...big mistake. I should have waited for the questions and limited my answers.


How was it a mistake? You two are on the road to R and doing well, no?


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

B1 said:


> I had to know it all. My imagination was running wild. I am a very visual person, and I was seeing everything imaginable in my mind. So, I asked for it all, where, times, size, positions, durations, oral, even how many o's. I wanted every little detail and EI gave it. She would answer until I said stop. Her A lasted for over a year so there was a lot to get and she gave me all the info I could handle and then some. We would both be in tears usually through this. God was in painful, do I wish I did it differently, no.
> 
> Some of the details I could have lived without knowing, but EI was being truthful and open, so in getting the details like I did, I also felt I was getting the truth. Her honesty was painful. Then, over time, I would ask a lot of the same questions over and over, the answers were always the same, her story never changed, it was always very consistent. This helped me, the details hurt, but getting them helped me know I was also learning everything about her A. I needed that. I needed her to help me piece this puzzle together.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
This was me as well. Her ability to be open and her consistency both helped me believe I was getting the truth. The problem I had was that 20 + years had passed so some of the details were fuzzy. I got too many "I don't know/I don't remembers" which lead to my trouble trusting if I got the whole story.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

theroad said:


> But what if it is now 30 years after the affair ended. And your BH has his D day now.
> 
> Your BH wants every detail.
> 
> ...


This was a stumbling block for me. It was 20 + years between her affairs and my Dday. She had trouble recalling things to my satisfaction. However, it worked out for the best because I'm pretty sure I would have left her had I found out close to the time they occurred.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

I didnt ask for all the details. I still dont know whether or not I ever want them. I just assume the worst. I assume she did everything she wasnt doing to me at the time.

I think knowing everything for sure would be harder.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

I have a vivid imagination.....and the details were much worse than I expected. I quit asking questions because every answer was worse than I imagined.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> he was given all of the details. He remembers them...that is what this discussion is about. His d day was thirty years ago. Even today if he asks me a question...which is very rare...I answer to the best of my ability. My understanding is d day is when you find out about an affair. So he is not having his d day thirty years later. There are some here who say they did not find out about their spouses affair until many years later. That was not our situation so I cannot answer how you deal with it
> 
> I do not doubt that you gave your BH all the details.
> 
> ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

B1 said:


> Some of the details I could have lived without knowing, but EI was being truthful and open, so in getting the details like I did, I also felt I was getting the truth. Her honesty was painful. Then, over time, I would ask a lot of the same questions over and over, the answers were always the same, her story never changed, it was always very consistent. This helped me, the details hurt, but getting them helped me know I was also learning everything about her A. I needed that. I needed her to help me piece this puzzle together.
> 
> If I asked she answered. If she felt there was something important I didn't ask about she would tell me that too.


Hearing the same answers is how the broken trust gets rebuilt.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> I have a vivid imagination.....and the details were much worse than I expected. I quit asking questions because every answer was worse than I imagined.


Maybe I don't know your story as well as I thought, but didn't your wife have one sexual encounter with the professor and she shortly confessed to you out of guilt? If you have a vivid imagination and the details exceeded your speculations, then they must have ran the gamut of everything possible then. 

I'm hoping your imagination is more pedestrian than you realize. I find it rather shocking that one encounter could be so full of details like that. Not calling you a liar or anything like that, just find it quite surprising.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It is definitely interesting to see the differences in BS perspectives. I have a very well developed sense of empathy. I can realistically feel someone's pain very deeply even though I would never experience the same pain in the same situation.

I am a caring but very hard man. It is very hard to hurt my feelings directly.

I think part of my outrage at infidelity is what I see it do to more sensitive people than me. What a crime a WS has perpetrated against a sensitive spouse!

If my wife were unfaithful, I would require every gruesome, disgusting, detail be told and re-told while I recorded it.

I wouldn't make her do this to help me heal, I am a very hard and self confident man. I would do it so she could fully see the depths of her ugliness when her actions had a light shined on them. I would do it so she could feel the total depravity and shame of her behavior so hopefully she would grow to hate her actions and who she had let herself become.

I would want her to become a better person even though our marriage would be over.

I think that confessing your crap, especially to the one you betrayed, is a hard and painful thing if you are remorseful.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> I have a vivid imagination.....and the details were much worse than I expected. I quit asking questions because every answer was worse than I imagined.


Your WW say's that you still ask questions.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> It is definitely interesting to see the differences in BS perspectives. I have a very well developed sense of empathy. I can realistically feel someone's pain very deeply even though I would never experience the same pain in the same situation.
> 
> I am a caring but very hard man. It is very hard to hurt my feelings directly.
> 
> ...


Not being a BH makes you have no insight on what you would do if you were to become one tomorrow. Many people in boot camp said they were going to kick ass. Yet when at the front the only ass action they had was ****tingthemselves in their pants.

To do what you would suggest is just as abusive as a WW's actions were. Promoting for BH's to sink to the WW's level is not sound advice.

Sound advice upon a D day for a BH that can not get past his WW affair is for him to contact a lawyer and divorce his WW.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

theroad said:


> Not being a BH makes you have no insight on what you would do if you were to become one tomorrow. Many people in boot camp said they were going to kick ass. Yet when at the front the only ass action they had was ****tingthemselves in their pants.
> 
> To do what you would suggest is just as abusive as a WW's actions were. Promoting for BH's to sink to the WW's level is not sound advice.
> 
> Sound advice upon a D day for a BH that can not get past his WW affair is for him to contact a lawyer and divorce his WW.


Hello the road.
You and I simply have differing perspectives on the subject. I don't think making someone confessing the details of their crime is abusive at all. If you think making someone repeat their offense is as bad as the offense than you are from a different planet than me.

This thread is about how much detail a BS would require. I would require every detail for the reasons previously mentioned.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I understand that some, perhaps many, BS's don't want to know the sexual details. If those details are from the WS's mouth, I guess I can understand that.

But I really didn't need to worry about that decision. I had almost 4000 emails from the POSOM to read. A majority of them were sexual details. To me, when the evidence is there, it's a form of rug sweeping not to read them - no matter how painful.

Contrast that to the POSOM's wife, who refused to read them; or at least admit to me that she did. In my way of thinking, that's cowardice and denial.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

When I caught my wife it was with emails, texts, pictures and videos. I made her describe everything. When where and how and how often. 

At first my wife tried it only happened so many times, he had ed and so on. Oh and it was protected sex. All turned out to be lies and she was doing things with him she was not doing with me.

I had to know everything so it took about three months to get it all out of her and then I pointed out the additional lies she told me. I think the worst thing for me was that he sent her a video of himself jacking off.

It was very difficult but it was better then not knowing for me and my mind movies were bad enough


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## sblue (Feb 6, 2014)

He never offered any details until I asked. But a year later I found out he lied. Yes they did have oral sex. no he did not wear a condom. He had gone thru a pregnancy scare with her and had to have tests for STD. I think they want us to believe that the sex was lousy, the girl was ugly and he couldn't "finish". It's all a load of BS.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

I think what everyone is trying to allude to. This is my opinion. But in the past most of the time the sexual act isn't the first betrayal. The emotional aspects as well. Your timeline may only include the part where it lead up to the physical affair. But usually affairs don't just happen, unless the WS has sexual issues ie. unresolved abuse, or is addicted to sexual highs, there are exceptions. However what about the time you first me the professor. When did you start realizing he was interested in you. When did you realize and start to not give a darn that your were betraying your husband. When did the emotional betrayal turn into physical betrayal. Why did you decide to stay with your husband over the OM? These questions will be stuck in his head maybe forever. Your husband is trying to figure out what he did to you that was soo bad that he deserved to be cheated on. 
The timeline is not just a series of events marked on a calendar. The affair started long before you opened your legs. I mean you are going to have to go back and figure out exactly how things happened with fresh eyes not clouded by affair fog. You both need to pick what happened apart to the point that you understand what you can do to make your marriage better. 
Like this or not cheating is never excusable. Problems in a marriage = a trouble marriage. problems in a marriage does not equal "that's why I cheated."


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

sblue said:


> He never offered any details until I asked. But a year later I found out he lied. Yes they did have oral sex. no he did not wear a condom. He had gone thru a pregnancy scare with her and had to have tests for STD. I think they want us to believe that the sex was lousy, the girl was ugly and he couldn't "finish". It's all a load of BS.


This is exactly why i started the lie and truth thread.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I gave him complete details...positions, descriptions, etc. imagining your wife fvcking someone and then having complete details so there is nothing to imagine was devastating to him.


Unless you're an author by trade and you were able to put into thought all of the sensations, smells, tastes, etc - the level of recall that would make your husband feel like it was a transcendental experience OR you and your OM went thru the entire kama sutra in one afternoon, I'm having difficulty processing your situation.

For me, my vivid imagination would take me to the level described along the lines of the first part where I would go to the level of imagining EVERYTHING (elevated pulse rates, his/her scents, details about every sensation felt when being explored by mouths, hands, etc, to go along with the more usual imaginings of penis size and positions. For me I would have to know the details because my mind would go to a very detailed level. I just know I would.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Is this the TDA [Tam Detective Agency]?

Guys unless I'm mistaken, they [Mr and Mrs John Adams] have been dealing with this for like 30 years or so. I don't think there's any question we can come up with for her that her husband hasn't already thought of.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Nostromo said:


> Is this the TDA [Tam Detective Agency]?
> 
> Guys unless I'm mistaken, they [Mr and Mrs John Adams] have been dealing with this for like 30 years or so. I don't think there's any question we can come up with for her that her husband hasn't already thought of.


My comments have nothing to do with JA's and MJA's relationship. I was trying to understand the situation better plus offer my 2 cents on why I would need the details if I ever ended up as a BS. I have zero intentions of calling out either as liars or rug sweepers, nor did I mean to imply that they were.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sure there are those of us who would want every exacting detail under the sun. The who, where, what, when, and why of the affair.

And as the BS, had I the opportunity to play "20 Questions" with my skanky XW, it would have been basically questions such as these:
Did you post disparaging comments about me on either your FaceBook page or through your personal emails or texts to either of the OMen or to any of your personal friends?
Did you spend much more time communicating with both of your OMen through cell phone, texting, regular phone, et. al. than you did with me as your faithful husband?
What are the OM's names, phone numbers, and addresses?
How did you originally come to know them?
How did you come to hook up with them? By Phone? Texts? FaceBook? Email?
Are either of them married? Have children?
If married, do either of their wives know about it?
What towns or cities do either of them live in?
When did you first establish physical contact with them, or them with you?
Where did you meet with them when you traveled out-of-town? Hotels? Bars? Business Locales? Restaurants?
What cities did your rendezvous' occur in?
Have I ever personally met them at one time or another? Where?
Did your rendezvous' ever occur in their homes, summer homes, or swanky hotels, or resorts that you are quite familiar with? If so, which ones?
Did your rendezvous' ever involve any of our mutual friends that may have afforded you a bed in their home for your prurient pleasure with either of them? If so, who were these so-called friends?
Who of our close personal friends or family members was ever privy to your sordid activities without actually seeing it first-hand?
What was the chief reason that you gave to your own family members and our mutual friends as to what brought about our separation and the ultimate dissolution of our marriage?
Did any of your activities take you out-of-state, or even abroad while you left me, back here at home, just working or tending to things at the farm?
Did either of your other men come visit you in our home and/or have sex with you in our bed or elsewhere in the house while I may have been away from home? Or did you just take your pleasures with them in a local motel or perhaps out in the openness and the seclusion of the family ranch?
Did anyone in your family or any of your close personal friends ever have knowledge about who you were seeing? If so, who knew of it, and how and when did they find out about it?
Did you personally lead these men on either emotionally or physically, or did they lead you on, or was it just seemingly mutual?
Did you ever think of me while you were either emotionally or sexually engaged with either of them?
Did the two of you ever use protection while you were sexually intimate together?
Did it really ever bother you to come back home and have sex with me, more especially right after having had sex with them probably just mere hours before?
Did you ever make fun of my ignorance in the afterglow of having had sex with either of them, joking about me "not even having the first damn clue about your clandestine relationships with them?
Did you ever think that if I ever found out about your trysts that it would probably emotionally kill me?
The late-night/early morning hours when I ever so frequently woke up in the middle of the night and came looking for you and then caught you at the PC in our study, with your back turned to me, and I startled you with my sudden, unexpected presence causing you to turn the PC off, were you in contact with either of your other men then?
Once you checked into an old swanky, lavish, historic hotel suite for a three-day "business conference," in the larger city situated next to where we lived in our very own lavish, ornate historical home some 25 miles away; greatly under the explanation of that you already had an early morning breakfast meeting scheduled in that town and you didn't want to have to get up extremely early in order to make the short commute over there. You also had me bring you your trademark liquor to that suite right after you had checked in and was there; and you so proudly gave me a tour of the place, including the antique canopied king-size bed, the double jacuzzi bath, as well as all of the other lavish furnishings contained in the entire suite, that you shelled out $250.00 a night for. I responded that maybe we should stay the night there together as some sort of a mini-honeymoon and you responded that someone had to be back at home in order to look after the farm and take care of the livestock. You also told me to call you on your cell phone if I needed to see you and not to come to the hotel without first notifying you. So did anyone stay with you in that spacious deluxe suite that night or on any of the other days that you occupied it? If so, who might that have been? And if so, I'm taking it that they didn't sleep on the sofa, or on the floor, or even in the twin jacuzzi? 
More importantly, if you did, indeed, have a sexual rendezvous with someone there in that ornate hotel suite, then why would you choose to give me a personally guided tour of "the playing field," so to speak? To perhaps tip me off, or to just plain old hurt me by ripping my heart out right in front of your eyes?
And lastly, why did you choose to unfaithfully betray me? Was it out of Entitlement? Selfishness? Laziness? Or perhaps a combination of all of them?

I would not be interested, not even in the very least, as to what her OM's penis sizes were, much less whether either of them did oral on her while having her stand on her head, the sexual positions greatly preferred by lardass men, et. al. In my estimation, that's all immaterial at this point! But alas, the deception and the resulting treasonous venom that was slowly dripping from the core of your soul had already long since occurred!
*


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> yes we are thirty years in r...but it is the things i said that cause triggers more than anything else. Maybe had I not revealed so much it would have been better..you know?


Who knows. And I can't speak for your husband, but as far as triggers go, from this man's POV, I don't think it would have mattered. Details or not, I still would know looking at any woman I might stay with after cheating that another man slid it in and out of her over and over while she claimed to love me.

Sorry for the graphics, but as a man I know what happened. And details wouldn't have made it any worse.

But still, whether or not someone thinks if it will hurt or help, if the BS demands the answers, they should be given.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> theroad said:
> 
> 
> > you are asking me to speculate that I kept it a secret for thirty years then told my bs so we now have discovery day....the outcome is the same in the scenario...I tell him the truth to every question he asks. If he asks me something I cannot remember I still tell him the truth...I don't remember. He has not asked a question since November 2013... And it had something to do about the timeline...I answered his question. He still asks questions because he still thinks about it. I don't need to ask him why...it is my job to give answers...not to question his motives.
> ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Can you just trust me on this one...I told him everything...everything....I rattled, I elaborated, I went into vivid detail. We don't need to get into those details...it really has nothing to do with the thread. I told everything.
> 
> And this is why he triggers...because I told before he asked. So he knows way more than a human should be subjected to....unless he has movies Or pictures...or walked into the room while his wife was doing it with the OM.


Yes retelling of those details is not needed here.

Though I do ask can you recall all of those vivid details that you told your BH from thirty years ago now?


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

theroad said:


> Mrs. John Adams said:
> 
> 
> > You are missing my point. If you never talked about the affair for 30 years how much do you think you would of remembered?
> ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> theroad said:
> 
> 
> > my point is...we did talk about the details and have talked about the details for thirty years. So how can I tell you what I would have forgotten? That is impossible for me to know because it did not happen that way. I feel like there is something you are looking for but I can't tell you what you want or need to hear.and yes...I remember many of the vivid details but not all...I don't think about them. It is not a place I like to go in my mind.i hope I have helped...I hope I have answered your questions. I have answered my husbands questions...and that's what is important. I feel like we are beating a dead horse now and I am saying the same thing over and over again. So this is the last post from me on this particular subject. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
> ...


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

theroad said:


> Mrs. John Adams said:
> 
> 
> > johnAdams said:
> ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> theroad said:
> 
> 
> > Mrs. John Adams said:
> ...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I am going to say one more thing and I am done...stick a fork in me!
> 
> Every man does not have the ability to forgive a cheating wife. We recognize that R is not for everyone. But it was right for us. My husband asked me to stay because he loved me and did not want to live his life without me. We both wish I had never cheated...we wish we could undo it. But the reality is...it will be with us the rest of our lives.
> 
> ...


MrsAdams I support your recovery. I have supported many a WW in their efforts to end their affair and recover with their BH.

I have a WW that has stonewalled me for 30+ years. For me finding out what other WW and BH have gone through helps me to build up a set of questions that one day may get answered and to use what happened to them is possible to what happened in my case.

Though after being 30 years past D day and it evident that you were far from finishing recovery and this has led you here.

I would like to direct you and JohnAdams to two books. Surviving An Affair; His Needs Her Needs; both by Dr Harley. They are not expensive and should be read in the order listed.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> theroad said:
> 
> 
> > johnAdams said:
> ...


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

theroad said:


> Yes retelling of those details is not needed here.
> 
> Though I do ask can you recall all of those vivid details that you told your BH from thirty years ago now?


The Road;

I've read your responses to many threads. And this one is a land mine filled deeply jagged treacherous "road" for all of us. Your statements veiled as questions are puzzling to me. (Late here now I'm seeing in your follow up some of what you are getting at). 

Are you taking a potshot? If it's triggering her H and He loves and forgives and you don't "need" a retelling of the details . It's not a helpful statement or question. She's more than proven herself to those that matter.

They are here offering their pain so that we might benefit.

I'm glad to have Mr. & Mrs. J. Adams experience from both sides.

It's hard enough for women to post on this forum. Posing on this topic as a wayward is beyond brave. 

Details matter to some not to others. I have some that make me feel less bad than others. The acts can't be undone. What you see, hear know, read...it's going to stay with you.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> No one else knew about the affair while the affair was going on. It was a very short affair. I could have taken the secret to my grave. I didn't. I do not recall my husband asking if my best friend knew 30 years ago. It doesn't matter...he asked in november.


Thank you for your patience and answers.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

You have more patience than me Mrs. JA


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Getting the sexual detail was a most, I had to know what I was dealing with, who I was up against, and what I was forgiving. It sucks to think of competing but what the hell, I needed to make sure I still had game.... and I do!

Some OM were clueless, but there a couple that had game. What's odd is the guys with game know the rules and hit it and bailed, the OM's that struggled seemed to stick around.... wanting that girl friend experience with a married chick..... go figure!

At the end of the day I am not sure who played who... Mrs. The guy or the poor sap that thought he could be more then he really was... A band aid for my old lady to play with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Maybe I don't know your story as well as I thought, but didn't your wife have one sexual encounter with the professor and she shortly confessed to you out of guilt? If you have a vivid imagination and the details exceeded your speculations, then they must have ran the gamut of everything possible then.
> 
> I'm hoping your imagination is more pedestrian than you realize. I find it rather shocking that one encounter could be so full of details like that. Not calling you a liar or anything like that, just find it quite surprising.


:iagree:

I hesitated to ask because it just seems like people digging into the terribly voyeuristic parts of a marriage breakdown. But yeah, I had the same exact thoughts....


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

theroad said:


> Not being a BH makes you have no insight on what you would do if you were to become one tomorrow. Many people in boot camp said they were going to kick ass. Yet when at the front the only ass action they had was ****tingthemselves in their pants.


It does make you wonder what a TAM veteran would do if caught though, doesn't it?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Seems like telling all details and not telling details will BOTH work depending on the couple.

For me I had absolute truth that the affair occurred and that was all I needed. I never cared about the details I had what I needed to take the actions that I did.

Now that we have over 26 years of successful R I am glad that I never asked for the details. I almost never have triggers and the ones that I have are very weak and have nothing to do with details as I never had any in the first place.

I fully understand other people that say they have to have details. Whatever helps you with a successful R or D is what I think matters


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

If there is any couple here on TAM who has found the wherewithal in their relationship to recover from infidelity and build a happy life together it is Mr and Mrs JA. Nowhere in any of their posts (which consistently tell the same story, over and over again) is there a hint of unresolved issues. They serve as an object lesson and as a symbol of hope to those who cannot see a way to get through the quagmire of pain caused by infidelity. I believe we at TAM should be treating them as physicians, not as patients.

I hope they stick around. Look at what Mrs JA did for Kendall. And what JA did for me (to be posted soon).


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Seems like telling all details and not telling details will BOTH work depending on the couple.
> 
> For me I had absolute truth that the affair occurred and that was all I needed. I never cared about the details I had what I needed to take the actions that I did.
> 
> ...


This is why the BS gets to control how much is told.

I have seen, in 10 years, on many forums where there have been two WW concerned that after they confessed their PA with their BH's lack of questioning and talking about the affair.

The WW after reading the forums were ready to tell every last detail. They saw the tremendous need for BH's in general to learn the whole truth. These WW's wanted to recover their marriages.

The problem for them was that after they confessed the PA to their BH. All there BH wanted to know was the affair over and are their WW was not going to leave them.

The BH upon hearing that the affair was over and NC in place and that their WW was still going to be their wife. These OM refused to hear more. This made those WW think that recovery could not take place without a full confession.

It was a hard sell to get these two women to believe that the need to know about the affair varies from the extreme that their BH's were at to the BH's that if there emails and texts would have to read every one of them. If there were audio the BH would have to listen to every one. If video, watch every video.

Both of those WW's did not continue posting long enough to see if their BH's need for the truth had changed.

Over those same years I have seen one other WW besides mrsadams give unprompted full detail.

That WW was honest and brutal. She told her BH how the OM's equipment was almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before. She posted I was honest with my BH why can't he move on.

Though I am sad to say that I have seen BH's by the truck load that no matter how many years have not been able to put the PA to rest because they never got the truth they needed from their WW. Best one is where the WW upon D day tells her BH but the affair was over 20 years ago. It is old news. Why do you have to live in the past.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> There is so much sadness, so many who are hurting. If I can encourage just one...


You and Mr. A have encouraged me! My wife doesnt know about TAM, she only knows that I "talk" to people online regarding her infidelity. I bring you two up so much when talking to her about this. I tell her how similar we sound and how you two have gone on to be happy together again. 

I know its not easy to post here, especially considering all the anger aimed at a WS who posts here. You are one of the good ones though. You made a horrible mistake and you've been trying to make up for it everyday since. I pray my wife does the same...so far, she has.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Rowan said:


> To be frank, the generalities I know about my ex-husband's sexual encounters with the OW (that would be plural) are already quite bad enough, thanks. Worse, even, than my considerable imaginative capabilities would have provided.
> 
> When the broad strokes encompass things like your husband and two of his close friends all taking multiple turns having unprotected sex with a stranger they'd just met at a party while you were in the hospital with pregnancy complications....well, I just didn't particularly see the need for any finer details. Of that particular encounter or any of the 4 others that he confessed to that night or the 2 additional ones I later discovered on my own before our divorce was final. It was already worse than anything I would have dreamed up. I mean, seriously, what sorts of things was I going to ask at that point that wouldn't have just been more of a mindfvck for me?


What about forgiveness? Can't you forgive someone for making a mistake?

Am talking about the mistake you made when you married such garbage. You should forgive yourself....this is important. What he did were not mistakes and forgiving him is not important.

As for getting details, my take is similar to Conanhub. Getting ugly details could aid the detachment process I think. To despise the WS aids detachment IMO. Detachment makes separation and divorce possible, which I think is usually the best solution for the long term emotional health of the betrayed.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> That WW was honest and brutal. She told her BH how the OM's equipment was almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before. She posted I was honest with my BH why can't he move on.


If any couple wanted to R then I cannot see how telling the above details could help in any way.* In fact I think those details are almost a guaranteed R killer!*

I know one poster on here was told by his wife that the OM had a bigger one. Then after 2 years (she never dated) they tried to R and she did everything right but the R did not hold and they split. In this situation the wife told the husband that the other man was bigger because they were arguing and she wanted to hurt the husband. So she used that line just to get back at the husband and it may have not even been true.

In the quote above all seems to be true. So if a wife said that the OM is bigger but was only saying that to get back at him and she did everything right before and after the R ( she only had a ONS) and they did not make it, *what chance does a husband have that had his wife tell him all the harmful details like the quote above?*
*
I think that telling a husband the things like the quote above is suicide for a marriage and has no value in an R at all.*

If you want to D and detach I guess I could see some reason to tell all. *Do you really need more than having your spouse pumped by some OM to detach?*

*However, if you want to R, what good does it do to tell all the gory details like the one in the quote above?* Those details can rip your soul to shreds and you would never be able to get over that even if you did forgive. Forgiveness does not mean that you forget.

I think that in the early period that it is natural to want to know all the details but *in the long run some details will torment you for decades or forever.*


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm torn between agreeing with MrBlunt and 2ntnuf. I do think saying that the OM was "almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before" is not going to end well. But if that is the truth and the BS wants the absolute truth then what do you say? I think generally saying the sex was good and better than with spouse would be enough. If asked for more specific details then you could state the above. If your spouse has an affair and the sex is better than sex with you and you want to R you better figure out how to make it better or they will probably stray again.

I don't have any experience here so I could be wrong. My wife said the first guy was not as big and she barely remembers the sex. She said the second was so fast she wondered if it counted as sex. I told her she spread her legs and whether he even got it in didn't matter. She always said she couldn't imagine being comfortable with anyone larger than me. The problem is that when your W cheats your ego takes a major blow. So whether or not she is satisfied with you the thought enters your mind that she is not.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

confusedFather said:


> I'm torn between agreeing with MrBlunt and 2ntnuf. I do think saying that the OM was "almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before" is not going to end well. But if that is the truth and the BS wants the absolute truth then what do you say? I think generally saying the sex was good and better than with spouse would be enough. If asked for more specific details then you could state the above. If your spouse has an affair and the sex is better than sex with you and you want to R you better figure out how to make it better or they will probably stray again.
> 
> I don't have any experience here so I could be wrong. My wife said the first guy was not as big and she barely remembers the sex. She said the second was so fast she wondered if it counted as sex. I told her she spread her legs and whether he even got it in didn't matter. She always said she couldn't imagine being comfortable with anyone larger than me. The problem is that when your W cheats your ego takes a major blow. So whether or not she is satisfied with you the thought enters your mind that she is not.


The WW that I referred to thought she had to be honest. However she did not know about the difference to being honest and brutally truthful.

If her BH asked if how was the sex. She could of been honest and said Everyone enjoys sex so it was normal that she enjoyed the sex.

This answer was not a lie. The question did not ask who was better, how good the sex was, or a comparison of male equipment.

That simple answer would of then given her BH the chance to ask more details or leave it alone. This WW took all of the control from her BH.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

theroad - :iagree: - Details should have been left out until asked for.

I don't think there is a good general answer for this topic. It really depends on the individual. The thing that is important is that the WS is willing to answer and is completely truthful in answering any questions the BS has. I think some WS, in their zeal to help the BS cope, give details before they are asked for.

I'm not condoning lying but I think downplaying the quality of the affair sex might be helpful if both parties want to R. If there is a problem with the quality of the marriage sex, that is a problem for another day. It doesn't justify cheating and shouldn't be part of the problem during R.


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

As a BH, I say it's important to ask whatever questions you can handle the answers to. 

In my case, I asked for every detail I could imagine and asked her "what else" that I hadn't asked. The ultimate point (IMHO) was to determine if my WW was willing to be honest with me, even when her instincts and "common sense" would tell her to lie. The truth was asked for not under threat of divorce but to help ensure our relationship was rebuilt based upon reality rather than deception. I wanted to see if she was truly "changed" into someone that was truthful or if the deceptive, immature person that cheated was still in charge of her decision making.

It wasn't just a test of her, it was a test of US. If I couldn't handle the whole truth then I didn't believe we could reconcile.

I saw it as a moment to determine if SHE and WE could pass through the firestorm her infidelity created. 

But again, that's how I saw it and what I wanted from total disclosure.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> You and Mr. A have encouraged me! My wife doesnt know about TAM, she only knows that I "talk" to people online regarding her infidelity. I bring you two up so much when talking to her about this. I tell her how similar we sound and how you two have gone on to be happy together again.
> 
> I know its not easy to post here, especially considering all the anger aimed at a WS who posts here. You are one of the good ones though. You made a horrible mistake and you've been trying to make up for it everyday since. I pray my wife does the same...so far, she has.




And she can count me as another plus one. She literally talked me and PM'd me in the darkest hours! "The Adams Family", They just listened and shared pain and experience without telling me I "must" do a thing. They have shown me what is possible. They've been an example and prompted a breakthrough in my R that gives me hope. It's been tough but I see it's possible, they are my reason. They resonate with me. I can relate. 

We all have different stories beginning, and endings. I needed help with my next chapter. They were there. 

If I can pay it forward and help one person or more. Then the pain at least has a shred of some meaning.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> CaptianLOTO
> As a BH, I say it's important to ask whatever questions you can handle the answers to.
> 
> *In my case, I asked for every detail I could imagine and asked her "what else" that I hadn't asked.* The ultimate point (IMHO) was to determine if my WW was willing to be honest with me, even when her instincts and "common sense" would tell her to lie. The truth was asked for not under threat of divorce but to help ensure our relationship was rebuilt based upon reality rather than deception. I wanted to see if she was truly "changed" into someone that was truthful or if the deceptive, immature person that cheated was still in charge of her decision making.
> ...


Captain
If getting all the details worked for you then you are right for you!

Just curious did the details in your case have any similarities of the details as described below:


> That WW was honest and brutal. She told her BH how the OM's equipment was almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before. She posted I was honest with my BH why can't he move on.



How did your R or D work out for you?
If you do not want to answer then that is ok by me


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> 2ntnuf
> The trouble I have with that, Mr. Blunt and theroad, is the following.
> 
> I have read so much about how important sex is to women. They feel like, if the man does not want sex, he doesn't love her. It seems to be the way many women are wired to express love. Men seem to offer intimacy to express love. It seems that each, in a good marriage, is giving the other what they need. It seems like a basic function of our brains that causes this.
> ...



If after betrayal the WW wants a larger rod than her husband and that is more important than the rest of the factors in a loving relationship then I stick by my previous statement of 
*



In fact I think those details are almost a guaranteed R killer!

Click to expand...

*
Yes sex is important to women but being betrayed, replaced, rejected, and told that you are inferior in sex to the OM is important to men (and women). *My point is that if you want to R then telling all the extremely harmful details will make it much harder to R if not next to impossible.*


I am not saying that it is impossible for a man to R after being told the below but I would rather bet on the lottery as that has a better chance of success than the R (IMO)



> That WW was honest and brutal. She told her BH how the OM's equipment was almost double of her BH's, that the OM would go 4 times in one night, make her feel like she never did before. She posted I was honest with my BH why can't he move on.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Well Mr. Blunt:

I really do wish my brain were wired differently. Because I need all the details with most things. Ugh, some details are helpful some are harmful. If I feel like something is being hidden and I have to fill in the blanks. It's usually 10x's worse in my head than the truth.

There have been many things I really wish I didn't feel the need to ask. But I had to so I'm making an informed decision in reconciliation.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Interesting thread. Wish I had found it earlier.

I will always wish I had gotten more details, because the affair period was one lie after another. That will always be a limit on our relationship. A seed of doubt. An underlining of betrayal. 

I did get told that OM mad her feel sexually alive in a way I never had. Not saying that was easy, but it was by no means the hardest bit. Thing is, I am a fairly ordinary guy. I have no illusions that I am the greatest sexual athlete in the world. If that is all she wants then I will lose her. And to be honest, that cuts both ways. Sex is important, but it's not the foundation of our marriage.

In fact, what hurts me most is a specific conversation they had that demonstrated she was attuned to his emotional needs above mine. That is the moment that still gives me a sick feeling in the stomach sometimes.....like now  

As to whether it hurts more to get everything vs trickle truth, who knows? Either way, it hurts. You work through it and you repair the relationship or leave. If anyone is wondering how much to confess, I can't tell you what to out in and what to leave out....but I know this. DON'T LIE. Lies get caught, and the damage that has caused in my marriage will never totally heal.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Moment of Truth said:


> Ever consider that if it's the truth that the Om was better or bigger or whatever that maybe the bs wants to know. I think we get too caught up in trying to cater our situations to support our decisions to r or d instead of getting the truth about the situation and letting that dictate out decisions.
> 
> What I mean is what if him having a bigger tool or being a much better lover is a deal breaker. What if you can't handle that information? Does not knowing it make it any less true. Is ignoring the fact your wife may secretly long for the om's touch years later not just a form of rugsweeping?
> 
> ...


Agreed, and in addition it is a further betrayal to not give the BS honest information on which to base their decisions about the future of the relationship.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Wazza said:


> In fact, what hurts me most is a specific conversation they had that demonstrated she was attuned to his emotional needs above mine. That is the moment that still gives me a sick feeling in the stomach sometimes.....like now


Sorry you're feeling low, wazza.  This is exactly what I told my W was most hurtful. She claimed she never stopped loving me during her A (thankfully I never got ILYBINILWY), but I wondered out loud how much comfort she expected me to take in this since her emotional loyalty was directed outside the marriage for so long.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Not feeling low. On TAM I have learned the art of sinking into my feelings to write a post then pulling myself back out. Wouldn't stay here otherwise, it would hurt too much.

It was a long time ago, things are very different now, and my wife and I are in the marriage because we want to be, not because we have to be.

The fact that one person can be the wellspring of both your greatest joys and your deepest pain is so weird.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Kristin*
> 
> Well Mr. Blunt:
> 
> ...


Kristin
Someone said in an earlier post that the BS should make the call. 
I agree with that and you are a BS.
I hope it works for you either way.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> If after betrayal the WW wants a larger rod than her husband and that is more important than the rest of the factors in a loving relationship then I stick by my previous statement of
> 
> ...









> *By Moment of Truth*
> Ever consider that if it's the truth that the Om was better or bigger or whatever that maybe the bs wants to know


I answered that question to Kristen. The BS calls the shot on this issue!






> *
> By Moment of Truth*
> I think we get too caught up in trying to cater our situations to support our decisions to r or d instead of getting the truth about the situation and letting that dictate out decisions


Well I agree with the first part of your statement. I do know my situation better than anyone so naturally I am going to give my position based on my experience. I am doing this in order to help just like the rest of you. As for insinuating that I do not want to get the truth I think that is a bit misleading. I got the truth that my wife was a WW and I always advocate getting that truth. That was all the truth I needed to take the actions that I took. It is also true that my wife is fat but I have never told her that. Some truth is not necessary for some. *You can judge me as rugsweeping, and why I stayed with my wife, and not reconciling all you want but I have over 25 years of successful R how many do you have?*

One of the points that I am trying to make is directed to the two people that want to R. I suggest getting the absolute fact of the infidelity then get to work on restoring trust and love. I also think that getting those very harmful details will slow down the gaining in both of those important areas of trust and love and cause very damaging thoughts for decades.

I also believe that a person can learn to reconnect sexually with their spouse when the other non-sexual issues that are wrong are improved.

We are successful in R without all the sexual details so naturally I want to pass that along to those BS-WS that can use that method to help them.

*I know that my way is not right for everyone that is why I wrote IMO (In my opinion) in my post.*


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm apparently the type of person who wants to know everything....even though, the general wisdom is that you don't want to really.

In the British Women's Health (some month fall '13), there was an article about the "new" way that therapists are dealing with adultery. Very similar to the general wisdom on here. that is, if a betrayed spouse asks, then the WS must / should answer. It's therapeutic.

My fiance told me that he had / had tried sex with his just a friend ex but before he met me. that sounds believeable. but still, if you are trying to build a profile of someone, then you can't help but be curious.

What is most interesting and I don't think I will ever get to the truth of it, is who attempted to initiate sex when they took a trip together during their just friends period /and when he and I were together.

I wondered if he tried it on as my theory is that he was hoping to get back with her. 

He claims that she tried it on him which sounds believable as well because of all the things that I know about her, she comes across as the type of woman who uses sex as a tool ....... at a time when my (now) fiance was having second thoughts about this relationship with the just a friend ex, it does seem plausible that she would try to have sex with him to get him further confused as to which way to turn.

I have an e-mail from the first night of that trip in which he says "I was hoping the fact that "just a friend" ex is now involved and has her own thing going on would assuage any concerns you might have. 

"just a friend" ex is just my friend, but I can understand if you have any concerns about us hanging out in [this other city in the same hotel room. ]

He claims that it was HER idea to send that message to me. 

So what is it
1) she liked the idea that that message could be received at the same time that my (future) fiance was in her.

or

2) this was her concession to a guy who turned her down. That is, this is her way to still be in control and to still orchestrate what's going on.

In any case, going forward, I will never again be cowed into believing that there is something wrong with asking for the truth and the whole truth as long as you want to.

For something similar but different in degree, I think this was the point of the "Truth Comission" in South Africa...... even after apartheid and the election of Mandela as PM.


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## KeepingUpAppearances (Jul 14, 2013)

I wanted to know everything. Unfortunately for me I found explicit pictures and a video not to mention letter with graphic details. It hurts a lot wanted him to see that by having to tell the truth

I wanted honesty and thought maybe they did something we didn't do but that wasn't it. 

It's very difficult to deal with sexual details and can be a strong trigger in future conversations. Approach with caution and discuss at your comfort level.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Captain
> If getting all the details worked for you then you are right for you!
> 
> Just curious did the details in your case have any similarities of the details as described below:
> ...


That BH is not my story. My wife has withheld 99% of the story.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Its an intriguing conundrum when you think about it if the WS tell all of the details there is lower probability of reconciliation but on the other hand if you keep some details it will extend the pain and misery for BS..


Damned if you do damned if you don't 


Personally I don't care about the sex act what I do care about is one thing did you keep your wedding ring on during the affair for me that is something I don't think I could get over.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Damned if you do damned if you don't


They wouldn't have to worry about that conundrum if they hadn't cheated in the first place.

Simply, if someone cheats, then they need to face the consequences. If the BS asks, then they need to spill the beans no matter if they think it will hurt or help. They owe it to their BS to cough up the answers if asked.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

vellocet said:


> They wouldn't have to worry about that conundrum if they hadn't cheated in the first place.
> 
> Simply, if someone cheats, then they need to face the consequences. If the BS asks, then they need to spill the beans no matter if they think it will hurt or help. They owe it to their BS to cough up the answers if asked.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

vellocet said:


> They wouldn't have to worry about that conundrum if they hadn't cheated in the first place.
> 
> Simply, if someone cheats, then they need to face the consequences. If the BS asks, then they need to spill the beans no matter if they think it will hurt or help. They owe it to their BS to cough up the answers if asked.


I didn't start out knowing if my path was going to be R or D. I was holding back. We were in a bad spot. It's still jagged, and rough.

I'm female with a healthy sense of self confidence and self esteem. The details I uncovered myself playing 007 made me feel worse than him filling the rest in. 

I'm not worried about the size of parts, looks...if an explanation hasn't felt honest or complete I keep digging. I know I did go through a feeling of confrontation "exposure". That left me feeling I was killing something early and it may have played out differently if I hadn't said "I know". We are in a different spot. Spying can only yield so much. For some too much, for me not enough at all.

Honestly, I don't know if R will work for us. I can see all the things that got us here. I know that what he did only made those issues worse.

Is it worth tossing a 20+ year history away. Right now i can't say yes without doing what needs to be done. And the details I'm asking for I'd want even if I/we chose divorce. I will know. I can go forward and not wonder I can have as much "closure" as I can get. I don't think closure is ever a complete thing. 

I do know that going forward even if I choose to cut and run I'll have made my choice carefully and with all the information I need to make the decision for me. And for the right reasons.

I know that sense of black/white isn't there for me. If I move forward alone. I'll never have that same level of trust in a relationship. I'll never think, it can't happen to me. You are dealing with another human. We all fail we all fall short and we are free to chose what feels right for us moving forward. For me D would be the easiest choice at least for now. No kids, no worries about being able to make it alone or being alone or being broke.

In so many ways D is the easiest choice. Easy isn't always right, if it is it's a bonus!

Those aren't keeping me here in R. Love is what is there. That is my foundation my reason to give R a try. I love him, stupid choices and all. We will see what our future holds. My choices aren't coming from a place of fear.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I adore you!


And I am President of your fan club lady!


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

xakulax said:


> Its an intriguing conundrum when you think about it if the WS tell all of the details there is lower probability of reconciliation but on the other hand if you keep some details it will extend the pain and misery for BS..
> 
> 
> Damned if you do damned if you don't
> ...


Interesting. I've not cheated. And I've used my engagement/wedding rings as a shield if I got hit on. If that was ignored they got a very clear f-off. But I don't wear them to the gym (notorious meat market). Not an issue my boundaries are pretty solid.

My WH always wears his ring. OW she didn't care she prefers married men, no I'm not giving him a pass. She has a clear "type". When I got those details it made H feel a whole lot less "special". Sad that a smart man couldn't see such a simple situation clearly. It was maddening getting him to see it AND admit it.

Ugh, I wouldn't wish this common marital problem on anyone! 

I'm grateful for the support, and perspective I've gotten here.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Don't know if this was covered. I know it's been covered that the BS can be damaged by the details.
> 
> What I want to know is, how does telling the details feel to a WS? I'd like to know what that impact is on both the WS in R and the divorced WS. I think that would be helpful to my understanding of my own situation.
> 
> I don't mean to hijack, though. I'm not sure if this has been answered elsewhere either. I know I commented in a thread on whether or not it affects the WS, but I really would like to know the impact on both the one in R and the D, WS'.


My wife was suffering enormous guilt over the affair, and she is a conflict avoider. She felt that any attempt to discuss details was an attempt to attack and punish her, and pick fights. And sometimes that would be true, but not always.

It took her years to understand that nothing would get better unless we talked about it. She's getting better at it.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> My ex told me flat out, she's a runner. I guess that and conflict avoider are the same? To me, they are.


Don't know. 

Conflict avoider......believes that talking about disagreements and painful subjects just hurts people and should be avoided. So up to a point she is amazing in her forgiveness and resilience, but then when you need to confront an issue, not so good. Very hard to get the unvarnished truth out of her. She sees it as selfish.

What I didn't know about her affair wouldn't hurt anyone, in her view.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Wazza said:


> The fact that one person can be the wellspring of both your greatest joys and your deepest pain is so weird.


:iagree:
This is exactly how I feel, I wish I would have said it this well. I don't know if weird is the right word or not, but I sure can't think of a better one, though surreal comes to mind sometimes.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Philat said:


> Sorry you're feeling low, wazza. This is exactly what I told my W was most hurtful. She claimed she never stopped loving me during her A (thankfully I never got ILYBINILWY), but I wondered out loud how much comfort she expected me to take in this since her emotional loyalty was directed outside the marriage for so long.


This paradox was a real stumbling block for me. She claimed that she still loved me during both her affairs. She never intended to leave me and never wanted me to know. I believe her but it made me think how little she thought of the love she had. She loved me then and she loves me know; what's stopping her from cheating again. Those were my initial thoughts and made the beginning of R very difficult. I think it would have been easier if she said she didn't love me back then and was thinking of leaving.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Not feeling low. On TAM I have learned the art of sinking into my feelings to write a post then pulling myself back out. Wouldn't stay here otherwise, it would hurt too much.


I know what you mean wazza. I sometimes start to tremble as I post because the emotions come forward, but as soon as I done I'm fine.


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## ConservativeBamaFan (Feb 19, 2014)

This is my first post. Been reading this forum for months. I've been on both sides of the question. I've cheated and been cheated on. Both times we discussed it. I had questions. My wife did not. She didn't want to tell me details and really didn't want to ask questions. I however wanted every detail. My imagination would have killed me inside.


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