# How to talk to wife about money?



## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

Hey,
I would like to learn talk to my wife about money without it leading to an argument.
We’ve been together since our (wilder) teens. Now late thirties. I have always worked for her father and now run his small business with her brother.
I’m the breadwinner. She stays home and homeschools our kids.
She has always controlled the household bill paying . With very few exceptions I feel she does a good job of making sure things get paid and we have enough left over for good food, decent clothing for the kids and a little extra when things are going well.
Without getting overly long here, during the financial/auto crisis we hit rock bottom but managed to save the marriage, house(mortgage) and business after coming just days away from bankruptcy.
I love my wife deeply and have always been sort of co-dependent, deferring to her conservative sensibilities. But I need to step up and be involved in a mature manner with the doling out of funds.
And right now I feel like there is nothing at all extra even when I’m making close to $100k. And that could be the case, but right now I’m in the dark. While ignorance mostly bliss, I’m losing my mind wondering where it all goes. So any encouraging words on how to be competent , understanding and most of all how not turn into a ********* of the highest order when I say “so, I thought I might want to start helping mail out the bills” that would be great.

Thanks


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Man you're so scared of upsetting your wife! Talk about "codependent".

I'm not sure why you think this is okay. It's really not.

Go home and state what you have in mind: "I want to know how the money I make is spent." It's your right and should've been done a long time ago.

If she takes offense in that, tough sh1t, let her deal with her fragile ego for a while. It's not the end of the world.

I have a feeling your wife would actually welcome your inquiry. You would be surprised to find out how little things add up and $100K/year can really seem like nothing.


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

synthetic said:


> Man you're so scared of upsetting your wife! Talk about "codependent".
> 
> I'm not sure why you think this is okay. It's really not.
> 
> ...



Actually, we both can be very combative. I'm trying to be better in the last couple years than I used to be..Trading in anger and resentment for a more appreciative and loving approach.
Frankly, I'm just too tired to start a fight these days.
IRL,almost all of my time is spent either trying to make or save money. And I can't be in on every spending decision in real time, that's just impractical. I realize that.

Edit: BTW, is there no such thing as indentation on this forum? paragraphs are separated by spaces, I guess.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Just tell her that your near-bankruptcy made you realize that you need to better understand your household finances, and that it's important to you to be on top of it yourself, too.

Why would that start a fight?


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

norajane said:


> Just tell her that your near-bankruptcy made you realize that you need to better understand your household finances, and that it's important to you to be on top of it yourself, too.
> 
> Why would that start a fight?


Because I'm not sure I can "handle the truth". 

That is, I'm afraid that if I look closely were are going to have some major disagreements. 

For instance, her and my daughter have begun breeding and showing dairy goats. It's extremely fulfilling to them..and damn expensive. Which is ok on up years because sales cover much of the cost. But no female kids means no returns, which has been the case two years in a row...This is DANGEROUS territory on which for me to tread.


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## SaffronPower (Mar 6, 2011)

Tell her what you told us, she's done a good job with the finances, but you feel irresponsible not knowing about your own bills. At anytime life can knock one or the both of you out. You need to know what the bills, wills, plans, insurance, budget is so your family is taken care of properly.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

You need to create a budget in order to discuss this, to see where your money is going. Perhaps cold, hard numbers will make your wife wake up to the reality that she is spending more than you take in. The financial security of your family is too important to put this off any longer.

Here is a link to a budget template:

Household Budget Worksheet-Kiplinger

There are others online if you don't like this one. When you approach her, try to remain calm, and do not blame her for over-spending. Just say that you have the family's needs in mind. Be persistent, and do not let her fear of confronting this derail you.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Givernor said:


> Because I'm not sure I can "handle the truth".
> 
> That is, I'm afraid that if I look closely were are going to have some major disagreements.
> 
> For instance, her and my daughter have begun breeding and showing dairy goats. It's extremely fulfilling to them..and damn expensive. Which is ok on up years because sales cover much of the cost. But no female kids means no returns, which has been the case two years in a row...This is DANGEROUS territory on which for me to tread.


Well, maybe you _need _to have the disagreement. Irresponsibly spending when you can't afford it will bring you back to bankruptcy. If she doesn't care about that, start squirreling away some money because bankruptcy WILL happen again. Better you be prepared by knowing everything now about where the money is going and how much you are in the hole, or will be soon.

The situation won't get any better by burying your head in the sand, and she can't continue to bury her head, either.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So avoidance is your strategy? Let us know how that works for you... I don't think many financial books have been written with that as a basis for retirement, but I think it should be a best-seller!

Just kidding, obviously. But avoiding a problem doesn't make it go away.

C


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

You are all right and I know it. We need to have a budget. 

For the record the near bankruptcy was not her fault. I wanted to finance a house that was close to both parents and the job so I did and she went along. It was at the peak of the bubble. We over paid and the house had fundamental flaws that began to show up after the work dried up and the bank got very hawkish even though we never stopped paying.

So, in my "spare" time I've been digging, hammering and concreting my way out of an underwater home loan for five years. It's been a complete nightmare and I can't help feeling guilty (which I shouldn't except cheating myself out of time with my kids).We're just now seeing the light.

There has been nothing "extra" for so long it hurts. The last thing I want to do is drudge up the feeling we had during the worst of that time period. Honestly the whole scenario has changed the way I look at money forever, and it's possible I need coaching on how to look at it in a healthy way. 

Dave Ramsey is great but she will NEVER go that route. And I'm not sure it would be good to push that aggressive style of budgeting in our marriage. 

Anyway thanks for the replies


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Approach this as a team. Brainstorm ideas about how to spend less. Cut out Starbucks? Lunch out every day? More dinners at home? Cut subscriptions and gym memberships? Drop cable and use Hulu and Netflix more? If you bring a calm, focused attitude to the discussion, you should be able to broach any subject that affects your family. This is too important to ignore.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Your wife is entitled, and you are a major enabler of this.

Resentment is all I see in your posts. A lot of it.

Fix this or you'll live a miserable retirement.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There are worse things than an argument with the wife. Bankruptcy would be one. Divorce would be another. There is no blame to be cast here so there is no reason to argue, anyway. If she has been overspending it's also your fault because you weren't engage in the finances. It's family money, it's family spending, it's family business. It's not easy to earn the bread but it's also not easy to manage it, especially in a recession. I'd start by thanking her for the very huge part she played in keeping the family afloat. I'd apologize for not being interested in the finances sooner. Then, after all that huggy kissy business was over, we'd go over the checkbook, savings, other accounts, and bills together. We'd make a plan together. We'd make a budget together. If she gets loud or ugly, the world will still turn, the sun will still rise, the birds will continue their song. I would go into this thing with this in mind...you haven't been running the family finances. If you had you might not have avoided bankruptcy. You might have screwed things up far worse than anything she has. Your family financial management ability is unknown. She might be less than perfect but she was doing it. I would go into this thing determined but humble and grateful.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

How in the world have you NOT been involved in financial tasks over the years.

That is just completely crazy.

And you are afraid to ask your wife about money? Seriously? You are the "bread winner" and THE only income in the household, if ANYTHING, SHE should be the one "afraid" to ask you about money.

Anyways, my only advice for you is to get DEEPLY involved RIGHT AWAY. 

When it comes to financial decisions/management, you should be involved as much as your wife.

Also, you should NEVER be afraid to talk to your wife about ANYTHING, especially the money that YOU made.

Hello


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

DoF said:


> How in the world have you NOT been involved in financial tasks over the years.
> 
> That is just completely crazy.
> 
> ...


Not so crazy, really. She's very frugal by most standards and has done a really nice job with just a couple exceptions. It's mostly been a huge blessing to not really have to worry about it. 

But I know it's not fair to her to carry the mental load alone.

I come from a very poor background and never really learned anything about money from anyone but her family. 

Is it possible she has hidden money from me in an account somewhere? Absolutely. However, I don't think it's likely because coming from the background I did, I'm not the type of guy who's hung up on having two of the best everything for the children and buildings full of boy toys for myself.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Givernor said:


> Not so crazy, really. She's very frugal by most standards and has done a really nice job with just a couple exceptions. It's mostly been a huge blessing to not really have to worry about it.
> 
> But I know it's not fair to her to carry the mental load alone.
> 
> I come from a very poor background and never really learned anything about money from anyone but her family.


Problem is, as an adult, it's your job TO worry about it and work on it.

Also, your last statement is "rug sweeping". If you never really learned anything that should motivate you to do so.

You identified a problem, now take steps to learn from it and work with your wife.

Look, fact that you have fear talking to your wife about money IS crazy. You shouldn't have that fear or even ask how to talk to her about it.

And yes, it is crazy to enable her to have 100% control of expenses. From YOUR persepective and hers. It's an extreme. She is already dealing with a lot at home, on top of that financial too?

Think about it, what you said about kids/adult toys in your last paragraph is kind of what it is like with finances. You don't worry/are worry free.....while your wife has ALL of the burden?

Get involved and do your job. Finances is your job as much as it is your wives!


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to reply. Just wanted to say that we've been going through the expenses and It's to the point of talking about a budget and what our expectations and goals are.

Unfortunately, the problem I have and have always had is that I made decisions in my youth that I simply don't know how to live with. I need a therapist because it simply isn't fair to unload my issues on my wife. I' don't have "friends" to talk to for various reasons. Most notably that I'm a D-bag attracted to D-bags that are bad for my family life (five kids together) so I don't make it a priority.
Then there is the strange dynamic that we are doing "great" financially compared to most of the people we come in contact with. How can you talk about your "minor" money or marriage problems with people on the verge of divorce, with a disability and unable to find work. You tell them your issue and they look at you like you're bragging.

The facts as I see them are that even though we have only have a mortgage and one car payment as debt, we are living a life we cannot sustain due to the cyclical nature of the machine shop business.
Perhaps worst of all I feel now that the economy is set to implode soon. What the fed did during 2008 was a completely unprecedented hail marry that makes me think that it's only time before my bank does the same thing that they did in 2010 which is a complete shakedown. (they demanded I give them 30K or be sent to collection event though we NEVER MISSED A PAYMENT, on which we settled the debt at 10k after a god damned battle royal).

I don't want to start paying for appraisals and realtors to test the market with the idea of selling a home we've saved from destruction and beautiful property that we've built up for what I owe or less. (That is IF we could sell it at all).

But I'm afraid that's what we have to consider

The fact is when I wanted to buy this place I KNEW that it would be our entire existence. Nothing extra, only the house. And that was BEFORE the economic crash and the house starting literally falling apart. (now it's sound)..

I'm so damn tired and defeated I can't see the successes. It's unfair to everyone. I just have to smile and go forward..as soon as I know which way forward is.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I know you have your life set up the way you want it, but maybe you need to consider changing it. Such as, maybe you and your wife can send your kids to school instead of homeschooling so that your wife can get a job that contributes to the bill paying and saving. 

No, it might not be ideal for any of you, but it might be what you need during this time. A lot of people have to suck it up and make those kinds of changes sometimes; some of them have to make even harder changes. You have to face reality at some point.


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

norajane said:


> I know you have your life set up the way you want it, but maybe you need to consider changing it. Such as, maybe you and your wife can send your kids to school instead of homeschooling so that your wife can get a job that contributes to the bill paying and saving.
> 
> No, it might not be ideal for any of you, but it might be what you need during this time. A lot of people have to suck it up and make those kinds of changes sometimes; some of them have to make even harder changes. You have to face reality at some point.


That is always an option, isn't it?

I used to be somewhat of a proponent of that idea and pushed her in that direction when I would get angry.
But now I don't think it's a good idea. Between the teen cousins and friends who are pregnant, up on charges of DUI and drug possession, or slicing up their arms for attention, or just plain depressed and diluted, I think we would be living in a box before sending our younger kids to public school.
I don't blame the schools directly for these issues. Much of the problem is that their hands are often tied by the mob mentality of many parents, or forced to comply with federal and state socio/political programs completely void of any type of education.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Givernor said:


> That is always an option, isn't it?
> 
> I used to be somewhat of a proponent of that idea and pushed her in that direction when I would get angry.
> But now I don't think it's a good idea. Between the teen cousins and friends who are pregnant, up on charges of DUI and drug possession, or slicing up their arms for attention, or just plain depressed and diluted, I think we would be living in a box before sending our younger kids to public school.
> I don't blame the schools directly for these issues. Much of the problem is that their hands are often tied by the mob mentality of many parents, or forced to comply with federal and state socio/political programs completely void of any type of education.


Stay away from these cousins and "friends".

They are not healthy and toxic to YOU and your marriage.

Worry about your own life, not theirs. Clearly they created WHOLE lot of trouble/drama FOR THEMSELVES.

NOT FOR YOU OR YOUR WIFE!!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Set up an account with mint.com. Sit down together and start filling it out. Your budget will create itself.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

To the OP, do this: look at all bank, credit card statements once a month. Want to find a potentially hidden credi card, or bank account? That's easy, just get a credit report for you and your wife. Stay on top by looking at monthly statements, and be assertive with suggesting ways to cut spending. Tell your wife you want to help her avoid another bankruptcy. Sprout some balls and assert your rights.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Givernor said:


> Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to reply. Just wanted to say that we've been going through the expenses and It's to the point of talking about a budget and what our expectations and goals are.
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem I have and have always had is that I made decisions in my youth that I simply don't know how to live with. I need a therapist because it simply isn't fair to unload my issues on my wife. I' don't have "friends" to talk to for various reasons. Most notably that I'm a D-bag attracted to D-bags that are bad for my family life (five kids together) so I don't make it a priority.
> Then there is the strange dynamic that we are doing "great" financially compared to most of the people we come in contact with. How can you talk about your "minor" money or marriage problems with people on the verge of divorce, with a disability and unable to find work. You tell them your issue and they look at you like you're bragging.
> ...


You are miserable because you are working hard, making very good money, and still feel like the other shoe is going to drop. You need to assert a presence in your financial life and straighten out this mess.

IIRC you make close to $100k per year. For some context, that is around 2.5x the median wage ($790 per week) and almost 2x the median family income ($54k per year). Compared to most, you are doing quite well indeed.

IMO the reason $100k does not seem like much is that families typically have to spend much to make that money. Those stats mean a $100k household typically is a two-income household. That in turn means operating two cars, paying for child care, and so on.

You don't have those issues. At that salary you are bringing home close to $6k per month most likely. Unless you have a large mortgage (like, close to 50% of your take home pay) you should be financially comfortable. That means the bills are paid, you have an emergency fund with a few month's worth of expenses, and are saving a reasonable amount towards retirement.

So, something does not add up here. Get a full year's financial records (bank and brokerage statements for all accounts, tax return, statements for mortgage and car loan, credit cards) and power through it. At your income level it is not reasonable to expect yourself to make more as a way of resolving these issues.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I hope I remember to come back and see your replies, but I have to ask up front:

Do you have Roth IRA's, and some sort of retirement plan? If you are technically self-employed, you SHOULD have or be aware of what's called and SEP. (Simplified Employee Pension) 

Yeah, life is fun, etc, but retirement is something that you should have been planning on for years. In your late 30s you should have significant retirement savings. If you do not, that money has gone somewhere it probably shouldn't.

100 grand is good money, and you should be funneling some into retirement. Its fine that she stays at home, but you have to adopt a single-income mindset. That means a little deprivation, though. Our grandparents felt grateful for a good meal and enough money to educate their kids. Why can't we?

Big house, new cars, nice clothes, good vacation, newest electronics, dinners out, deluxe cable...oops: you're getting overboard.

College, retirement are MORE IMPORTANT. 

Get down to supporting your lives, and saving for the future. Don't fall into the 21st Century trap. Do you really want to work until you die?


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

DTO-
Thanks for the reply.
The only time I make approx 100k is when the business is booming and is in a position to cut distribution checks on a regular basis. My weekly take home is the number you quoted, around $790.00

Also the 100k number includes 15-20k that goes to health insurance annually. 

The thing that "doesn't add up" is what I stated earlier. 1. I'm in a house from the seventies that had many fundamental problems that I've had to fix (doing labor myself, cheaper but materials are still crazy cost).

The way this tends to work is that when the business is slower we do NOTHING to the house for fear of foreclosure.Then when things pick up we spend loads of cash replacing broken appliances and doing upgrades that were put off for years.


And 2. We live in the country and tend to spend on "hobby farming" things that can, in the long run, save us in food and such but take money to start up. (hogs, goats, chickens, cats, dogs)

I have split feelings on this because it can get out of control but it's an amazing learning tool for the kids and it does sometimes pay.

For instance, right now I have two hogs in the freezer that we raised and the meat equals out to $2/pound while a pound of bacon is $5-$7 in the store. But I had to invest to get there and this is the first year.

Anyway you get the idea.


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

Forest

I do have some retirement but I haven't added to it in years.

And it's not invested in the market so it's making nearly nothing in interest.

It's in IRAs (not sure if ROTH but taxed deferred anyway).

They equal just over 100K I believe, and I'm trying to learn about investing but geeze louise , in the few years I've "watched" the markets I've gotten whiplash. 
From what I've seen, I have to lean towards the Austrian Model of fear and conservation. I'm not looking for fabulous returns or anything. But it would be nice to find a balance that could give 9-12% consistently.

Just haven't taken that step yet.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It sounds like you are either intimidated by your wife, afraid of conflict...or both.

The fact that you are unable to square off with your wife shows some dysfunction that is present. A healthy family and marriage is one that is open and communicative. The fact that you work so hard yet unable to address a problem for fear of a volcanic reaction is intolerable.

For this, you are going to have to dig deep and probably do some hard things. That means approaching your wife and having her show you how she does the bills, how she does any accounting or budget planning. If she admits she doesn't do any of that...just pays bills and spends on whatever is needed when it's needed, then that is not budgeting...that's living paycheck to paycheck.

Discuss with her the goals for your family. How much longer do you plan on working? What are the kids' educational goals? What do you guys want to do during your retirement years? It sounds like the hobbies are fun for family enjoyment, but can be expensive. Entertainment does come at an expense sometimes, but if it is an initiative that is costly with the intent of saving money, then you need to go into business mode and see when and how that payoff will occur and if it is worth it. Maybe one thing not making money is okay...but a while slew of projects will just hemorrhage your finances. 

Put your foot down when it's time. Don't wait until you explode, but don;t be bullied by your wife either, Be loving and honoring BUT PERSISTENT. You BOTH should come to an understanding and be on the same with where the money is going! Give each other a little allotment if the budget allows, but you first priority is getting serious about minimizing the risks to your financial future. If you can't get it together, then there ought to be ZERO discussion on paying for kids' college tuition.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Givernor said:


> DTO-
> Thanks for the reply.
> The only time I make approx 100k is when the business is booming and is in a position to cut distribution checks on a regular basis. My weekly take home is the number you quoted, around $790.00
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if I misread your earlier posts, but there is a huge difference between earning $100k per year and having a business that makes $100k during a good year and half of that the rest of the time. For that matter, you could argue that having a business profiting $100k per year is still worse, because of all the stuff you have to pay for yourself.

Based on this updated info, I'm not surprised there is nothing left over. You still need to figure out where the money goes and cut back where you can, but the disconnect is resolved.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Also, are you writing off all appropriate business expenses?


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

DTO said:


> I'm not sure if I misread your earlier posts, but there is a huge difference between earning $100k per year and having a business that makes $100k during a good year and half of that the rest of the time. For that matter, you could argue that having a business profiting $100k per year is still worse, because of all the stuff you have to pay for yourself.
> 
> Based on this updated info, I'm not surprised there is nothing left over. You still need to figure out where the money goes and cut back where you can, but the disconnect is resolved.


Ok, after rereading some of my posts I can understand some of the confusion. I haven't been overly clear. 

My wife and I are 15% owners of a partnership that includes her father and her siblings. 

I make a weekly salary that equals a take home amount of around 800/week. On top of that we make 15% of any profits that are used to pay shareholders.

It's a tiny business (3 family members and 4 more employees) that goes up and down with market cycle. But We've never had a million in sales, unless it was pre-1995. 

My wife and I have never made 100K/yr. but I think this year the taxes will show something very close to that if you include the group coverage health insurance premiums paid for by the business.


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## Givernor (Oct 3, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> It sounds like you are either intimidated by your wife, afraid of conflict...or both.
> 
> The fact that you are unable to square off with your wife shows some dysfunction that is present. A healthy family and marriage is one that is open and communicative. The fact that you work so hard yet unable to address a problem for fear of a volcanic reaction is intolerable.
> 
> ...


I’ve gotten deeply involved with the household bills.

I’m writing down all spending. I’m working with a budget to find out how to plot the bill paying through the month so each pay period has it’s own bill obligations.

I’ve even made a spreadsheet to countdown the dollars of the month as they go out.

My wife was at first highly annoyed but she’s really been quite accepting. That could be because I have kept relative composure after my initial rants and haven’t really asserted any demands based on any of the info I’m learning. I’m mostly in watch and learn mode while just doing a lot of documenting.

We have not yet revisited the questions about our future goals that need to be addressed before we can really get serious about any saving or debt elimination. But at least I’m not in the dark anymore, and it’s both liberating and nauseating at the same time, ha!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

excellent. Get the budget down first. Then work on the issues.


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