# Wife had emotional/sextual affair over phone



## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Found out my wife had an emotional/sextual affair with an acquaintance back in Jan 2017 which ended in late March 2017. We'd been married for over 10 years with 2 kids (4&7). I had feelings that something was wrong in our marriage starting in late December 2016 but couldn't put my finger on it. I spoke with her 2x during the affair to tell her something was off but she said these were just normal "ebbs and flows" of the marriage. We still were having sex 2-3x a week although it lacked a sense of intimacy that I desired (lots of eye contact and deep kissing). During this time period, my wife basically checked out not only on me but also the kids. She was much more wrapped up in work, was out with her friends more (verified) and just seemed to be doing the bare minimums. 

B/C of my suspicions, I started monitoring her text messages but found nothing overly suspicious until August of this year. In Aug, I found a string of messages between her and this guy that was nothing overly suspicious but definitely longer in length that I would have considered normal for a wife and male friend to be having. My wife (was) is friends this guys wife too. Then I found another message between her and a girlfriend talking making mention of this guy and that they had a "history". 

So needless to say I freaked the hell out and confronted her which basically consisted of me unloading 9 months of hell on her b/c I knew something was up but didn't know much. She broke down into a crying mess saying how sorry she was but never telling me the whole story. Fast forward a week and each successive day having found out more information about what exactly happened. 

Long story short:

he started it
it started in January, ended in March
there was sexting involved
she sent him 4 pictures, he sent 1-2
both expressed regret at various stages of the affair
they NEVER had sex 

How do I know all that? I was able to recover every message (text/email) sent from her phone during that time period. She did not have a burner phone, use snap chat, blah blah blah so let's not go there. They only communicated via text period. 

After I found out all the details she was very very remorseful, wanted to go see a marriage counselor, see individual therapists etc. Said she would spend the rest of her life showing me how sorry she was, building back trust, etc etc etc. I told her that if I ever found out one new detail that she left out, one new lie, etc. the marriage would be over immediately. She knows I am dead serious about that. 

It's now December and I'm in a much different place. My anger has been replaced with sadness (sometimes) and I'm mostly concerned about the deceit of it all. The sexual aspects could happen to anyone. We both admitted that over the past 2 years, we'd been coasting and been very focused on the kids and less on us. Therapy has been going well and she's learned that she has been depressed, had been having a hard time being a good wife, good worker, and good mom and that by trying to control all of that, she got out of control. It's not an excuse but it is what it is. The dude isn't that good looking and she claims it was never about "him" per se but the fantasy of it. The escape of it. Now granted she did some horrible things during that time, things I'll never 100% get over. She has never talked to the guy post the day I found out period. She removed him from her phone and I've been monitoring her email, sms, facebook, instagram, etc. 

Every single indicator tells me that she is committed to rebuilding our marriage and we have gone back and redefined acceptable boundaries, what we expect out of our new marriage and had discussions about if we can meet those expectations. We've been in lockstep on what we've laid out. She claims that the weight of the lies were crushing her and that she doesn't know who that person was. To further that point, I said she was friends with the wife, along with a large group of girls. During this whole thing, she maintained her friendships with these girls despite the fact that she was texting with the husband. Now that they know, they've all abandoned her b/c they feel betrayed. Like, "how could you do this and then turn around and hang out with us knowing what you were doing?" My wife says the thought of losing friends never occurred to her which shows you the power of attraction while this was actually happening. 

Our sex life has improved dramatically and I wouldn't call it hysterical bonding. She says that b/c she almost lost everything she had to make a choice to be more present in all aspects of her life. And in the brief time, it seems like it's working. She has re-engaged with kids, etc. Sex is night and day different with regards to eye contact and kissing. 

By NO stretch am I claiming that we're good, I've forgiven her, I'm over it, and that everything will be good moving forward. We have good days and bad. She answers all of my questions, no matter how many times I ask her. I feel good about moving forward knowing that we still have a lot to work on but my 

My question(s)/concerns are:

*despite her telling and showing me she wants to fix things, I still can't help feeling like I'm 2nd choice and she is staying b/c the other options are less attractive and thus she's putting 100% effort into fixing it. I don't want to be a consolation prize.
*she didn't have sex with this guy, but in a way she did. 
*how can i get over the fact that she was texting sexual things with another man (just time?) We didn't really sext prior to this happening and doing so now would sort of freak me out and trigger bad thoughts about she she did with him.

Just looking for thoughts....what I don't want to get into is discussions around if I'm sure she didn't have sex, etc. They didn't. it was a 3 month textual affair period. 

Thanks!

And Happy Holidays from NYC


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

They had sex, and if she’s saying otherwise, she’s lying.

Accept this as truth, because it is.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> My question(s)/concerns are:
> 
> *despite her telling and showing me she wants to fix things, I still can't help feeling like I'm 2nd choice and she is staying b/c the other options are less attractive and thus she's putting 100% effort into fixing it. I don't want to be a consolation prize.


I'll ignore your insistence that this affair was just sexting, although others are going to pile on it. I think it's highly unlikely.

The quoted portion is really what it is. You are Plan B, she wouldn't have cheated if she thought you were the best option for her. If you reconcile and stay, you'll have to live with knowing that you became her Plan B because Plan A didn't work out.

Plan B never becomes Plan A, and a woman always wants her Plan A, she wants the best she can get. Your wife doesn't think that's you. 

Can you live being her runner up until another man she deems as better than you pays her a little attention and he becomes Plan A while you're left on the back-burner?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

NYCBILL said:


> Long story short:
> 
> he started it
> it started in January, ended in March
> ...


Long story short:

Dump this POS cheater.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> They had sex, and if she’s saying otherwise, she’s lying.
> 
> Accept this as truth, because it is.


Honestly, you have no way of knowing this. It's projection and stock CWI advice.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Just another day in TAM, where posters dish out advice based on their own experiences, and not those of the OP.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ghost Rider said:


> Honestly, you have no way of knowing this. It's projection and stock CWI advice.


It’s not projection at all.

I’ll say it again —

EA + physical proximity to EAP = PA

It’s downright Newtonian.

Your perpetual naysaying, though?

_That’s_ projection.

You divorced yet?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I too would feel odd with the sexting after this activity(sexting) was done with OM. Personally, I would rather not receive them. Honestly, why do you get it now and not before when OM was not in the picture? It is similar to one's W going sex wild with OM but not with their H. Then offering it up after discovery. 

Other than the kids, what keeps you in this marriage?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> It’s not projection at all.
> 
> I’ll say it again —
> 
> ...


If there is a will there is a way...specifically if there is proximity.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

The hard part to get over will be the realization that she is capable of this kind of behavior and there's no guarantee it won't happen again. It's easy to stay faithful in the short term when you are reconnecting, but what happens years down the road when the daily stresses start to pile up again. Is she going to return to her old ways to relieve the stress? There's no way to answer that definitively. It's like a drug addict may relapse years later.

Right now your kids are in the golden period where everything is awesome, and regardless, there's still a lot of stress. That stress is nothing compared to what comes in the tween and teen years. Obviously stress is manageable, but realize that you'll never be able to relax about checking up on her.

Whether you can get over it or not will be a highly personal choice. For some people, they will relive the betrayal every time they are alone with their thoughts. For others, they just see it as a normal human failing and move on. I think if you keep checking and looking for abnormal behaviors, you will eventually regain some sense of normality. This experience may be the shock she needs to never stray again. Because of your family situation, I think you owe it to your kids to give recovery a try. But commit to yourself that any slipup means divorce. Don't be a doormat who keeps taking her back after every regression. You'll set a better example for your kids if you stand up for what's right even if that means divorce.

And one other part of the recovery is that you will need to forgive her. You can't hold this over her head forever and be recovered. It doesn't mean you give her a pass, but you can't bring it up in every argument as your trump card to win. And you must do some marriage counseling so that you both go forward in a healthy way. If you try to do this on your own, you'll both likely make mistakes that will be difficult (impossible?) to fix.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You can do better.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

None of the text messages between them ever discussed love, wanting to meet, or this being anything other than text talking about having sex with another person. How is that Plan A? It was a fantasy. Call me delusional.....

Doesn't make me feel any better though.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> Just another day in TAM, where posters dish out advice based on their own experiences, and not those of the OP.


I never got why it matters anyway. Once they start talking sex and sending pictures I really don't see the difference betrayal is betrayal.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

Bill,

Your situation is close enough to my own that I may be able to offer some insight into what the future will look like from now to 10 years out.

First, it appears like you are tending to try to work this out with your WW ... I did too, and even though I still think I made the right decision based on all factors involved, not the least of which was that no actual penetration occurred, only kissing and fondling, but that feeling of "right" is not constant and it will rise up to take bites out of your soul on a semi-regular basis.

The hardest part going forward is being able to accept that your WW is simply NOT the woman you thought you M'd. You either ignored some red flags about her personality or you arrogantly thought that you were different and red flags didn't apply to this great love of your life ... I've been guilty of both in my previous failed M and my current R ... and believe me, this fact will haunt you. 

Due to the gray area of your circumstances, I won't advise you to D or R, but I can tell you from personal experience, you will heal much quicker and better with D, than you will trying to R. As they say, it is what it is.

Also, when you say she sent 4 photos, I'm assuming those were nude or some form of boudoir photos ... if so, then you have another level that I haven't had to deal with and although some won't find this that bad, to me it is a clear indication that she would have screwed OM given the right opportunity. Can you deal with that? ... also, have you seen the photos she sent him or that he sent her? What were they like?

I'm glad the GF's have disowned her. My W lost permanent contact with her two longest (20+ year) friends, but it was the other way around ... one of them helped to facilitate the A, and both of them covered for her, so I insisted that both be removed from our lives as a condition of R.

One last bit of advice ... forget about the Marriage Counselors and probably the IC too. I've found them to be a waste of my time and money and were actually detrimental to our R. To be blunt, R will depend largely on YOU, and your ability to find a way to compartmentalize this knowledge about your WW, while never forgetting that she can not be trusted again ... and believe me, you will NEVER forget ... things will get better, but its been 10 years and when I hear her say she has to go on another business trip, etc., my mind immediately starts looking for signs and questioning who/where/opportunity, etc.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

The well has been poisoned, it will take a lot of work to create something new one. 

If at all posable, it's going to take years (not a few months) to heal. Much of it will depend upon her remorse and you being able to forgive. 

Did she say she thought about leaving you for the OM or was it just a fantasy fling? 

Is she or you using an IC/MC?

You might find some answers in these...

After the Affair

Not "Just Friends"

Best


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> None of the text messages between them ever discussed love, wanting to meet, or this being anything other than text talking about having sex with another person. How is that Plan A? It was a fantasy. Call me delusional.....
> 
> Doesn't make me feel any better though.


Bah, cheaters are just ****ty people. They lie to your face and don't sweat it. Usually that are just broken. Personally I just don't think you are safe and you would be crazy to think you are, or that this is her first time even. She is going to be fixing her broke her whole life, just like an alcoholic. Could you do it to her? No? That is the difference. I'm just saying it's a hard life trying to love someone who you know you should not trust.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> None of the text messages between them ever discussed love, wanting to meet, or this being anything other than text talking about having sex with another person. How is that Plan A? It was a fantasy. Call me delusional.....
> 
> Doesn't make me feel any better though.


Because of this

"she broke down into a crying mess saying how sorry she was but never telling me the whole story. Fast forward a week and each successive day having found out more information about what exactly happened. "

This is so new, you're not even close to knowing how far this goes. The lying and gaslighting is endless when a cheater is caught and can go on for YEARS, with more details coming out.

Women typically don't cheat because of fantasy, they typically cheat to replace you, or potentially replace you.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

MyRevelation said:


> Bill,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Because of this
> 
> "she broke down into a crying mess saying how sorry she was but never telling me the whole story. Fast forward a week and each successive day having found out more information about what exactly happened. "
> 
> ...


*So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


Yep, they don't give a ****, lying is what they do nearly obsessively when the affair is first exposed. The fact that you laid that threat probably guarantees she's clamming up.

They will gaslight the event, try to make it not nearly as bad. This is what you're dealing with right now. "If he thinks it was a couple texts that were bad judgment maybe I can get out of this". 

Any guy here whose wife cheated can attest to the lying, gaslighting, and trickle-truth. Almost none come out with the whole truth right off the bat.

let me ask you this, what are the odds that the entire affair only involves the evidence you've seen at this point? She knows you were monitoring her texts so she has to give something up, she likely believes if she gives this up, it goes away. And it just so happens what she gives up are the innocent shots in her bra? Get real, what kind of lame ass ****ing fantasy would that be?


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One thing that makes me hopeful for your recovery is that your wife seems to be owning up to her moral failing. She's not transferring the blame to you for creating the environment that caused her to cheat. It sounds like she's realizing she has this moral failing and will need to work to make sure she doesn't give in to it.

We often hear tales about the Wayward Spouse saying their spouse didn't treat them special enough or stuff like that. Be on the lookout for that kind of rationalization. That kind of spouse will put all the responsibility on you to create an environment for them that is so good they don't want to cheat. Then if they cheat again, it's your fault for not doing enough good things for them. Fortunately it doesn't sound like your wife is going down that path.

As for this:


NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


Absolutely, yes, more stuff may come out later. We have seen it time and time again. You said you didn't want to go there in your first post, but you should be prepared that something more may come out. In those cases, the Wayward Spouse knows the relationship is over once the bad stuff comes out, regardless of when it does. They figure it's better to lie and hope it never comes out.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Yep, they don't give a ****, lying is what they do nearly obsessively when the affair is first exposed. The fact that you laid that threat probably guarantees she's clamming up.
> 
> They will gaslight the event, try to make it not nearly as bad. This is what you're dealing with right now. "If he thinks it was a couple texts that were bad judgment maybe I can get out of this".
> 
> ...


*You could be right, but she had no way of knowing I'd be able to recover the SMS messages with the pictures attached. I've seen all of them, at least the ones she sent via SMS. So how do I find out the truth? Or are you just saying my only option is to leave?*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


Yep.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> *You could be right, but she had no way of knowing I'd be able to recover the SMS messages with the pictures attached. I've seen all of them, at least the ones she sent via SMS. So how do I find out the truth? Or are you just saying my only option is to leave?*


Tell her you will go to counseling and look to move forward and reconcile the marriage but she has to agree to a lie detector so you can move on knowing she didn't have sex with him, or you'll always have the suspicion and not fully be able to move on. 

Even if she's lying she will agree adamantly "no problem, I'll pass without a problem". If she's lying you'll know in the parking lot.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


Cheaters lie. Float the idea of a polygraph, tell her you are going to ask about past history to and see what she says. I really don't believe that these things just happen as one offs anymore after reading a lot on here and elsewhere. Usually it is a pattern and it happens because the cheater has poor boundaries and emotional problems. Generally it's their whole life, before and after the spouse. Can they change, yes with lots of hard work. 

A question you should be asking yourself is what is your quality of life going to be? Is it worth it. Now maybe it would be for your kids sake but at least think about it. You have a right to have a wife who doesn't send and receive crotch shots. 

Where did she meet this guy again?


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


You can bet your ass that she hasn't told you everything ... trickle truth is real and a constant with a WW, and this message was brought to you by the "Voice of Experience".

You will even hear ... "Look in my eyes, that's all there is, and I swear on my Mother's (insert any family member that they're closest with) life" ... brought to you by the same source as above.

Again, it is what it is ... WW's LIE to minimize their role.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I say forgive her and move on. BUT, have her sign a postnuptial agreement. This protects you if she is lying and took the A underground or cheats in the future.

Everyone makes mistakes in life. I've made some big ones and will take them to my grave.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

NYCBILL said:


> *You could be right, but she had no way of knowing I'd be able to recover the SMS messages with the pictures attached. I've seen all of them, at least the ones she sent via SMS. So how do I find out the truth? Or are you just saying my only option is to leave?*


Polygraph!


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

wilson said:


> One thing that makes me hopeful for your recovery is that your wife seems to be owning up to her moral failing. She's not transferring the blame to you for creating the environment that caused her to cheat. It sounds like she's realizing she has this moral failing and will need to work to make sure she doesn't give in to it.
> 
> We often hear tales about the Wayward Spouse saying their spouse didn't treat them special enough or stuff like that. Be on the lookout for that kind of rationalization. That kind of spouse will put all the responsibility on you to create an environment for them that is so good they don't want to cheat. Then if they cheat again, it's your fault for not doing enough good things for them. Fortunately it doesn't sound like your wife is going down that path.
> 
> ...


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Tobyboy said:


> Polygraph!


*She will do that no questions asked.*


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> *She will do that no questions asked.*


If she agrees and sits for it, likely she's telling the truth. 99 times out of 100 what she says she'll do, and actually do are different. Prior to the polygraph expect the following:

1. Dropping a little more info voluntarily to get you to think NOW she's telling the truth. I.e. we kissed once.
2. Try to make you feel like a nutjob for insisting on something as invasive as a lie detector test, it will be mortifying for her.
3. In the parking lot before doing it she'll break down and still not tell you everything but tell you they ****ed, or she sucked his ****, BUT ONLY ONCE!!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


No way to know your intimate details. There is always a chance she may be keeping something to herself. If only in fear you'd leave. 

That's what trickle truth is all about. You can't scare someone into revealing something with the fear of D if they think you'll leave anyway. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

I just think that the OP and other new posters in CWI should be aware that the advice given here is stock advice that is basically given to everyone. Maybe most of the time it works, but it in some cases it may not be appropriate or applicable. And I think this is or at least could be one of those cases. I just think the OP should be aware of that tendency to project here, and how prevalent it really is. 

A lot of the time posters here are just rehashing their own unfortunate experiences, and not really listening to what an OP is actually saying.

That's all I'm saying.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds like here friends knew too. Those people are not friends of your marriage and should be dumped IMHO. They are toxic. 

You say she will do the polygraph then do it. But check your entire history with her not just this. Now maybe you got the first time who knows but again these things usually are a pattern not a one off. I'm not even saying she is lying to you right now but if she is broken she is a risk. In most of these people it's in their nature. Like alcoholics. 

Did you ask here what her end game was? I am sure she didn't even think about that, or you, or her kids, that's the point. It's a big risk. 

This thread is timely.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> I just think that the OP and other new posters in CWI should be aware that the advice given here is stock advice that is basically given to everyone. Maybe most of the time it works, but it in some cases it may not be appropriate or applicable. And I think this is or at least could be one of those cases. I just think the OP should be aware of that tendency to project here, and how prevalent it really is.
> 
> A lot of the time posters here are just rehashing their own unfortunate experiences, and not really listening to what an OP is actually saying.
> 
> That's all I'm saying.


Of course people project, but hundreds of dudes on TAM are projecting more or less the same experience post-affair. Almost to the letter, the behavior of a WW is so predictable that you can tell the story, leave out timelines and names, and it would fit probably 99% of the men here.

Is it possible his wife came right out 100% of what happened with no coaxing to the affair and there's nothing at all left to hide? And it just happens to be the most PG details possible, while still admitting to wrong-doing? Sure. But if the OP believed that he wouldn't be here asking. And it certainly would be very, very rare.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Ghost Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, you have no way of knowing this. It's projection and stock CWI advice.
> ...


Polygraph time. Let her know only way marriage MIGHT survive. You will likely get a “parking lot” confession if you go that route. 

I am quite certain that it was physical. You need to know, too.
Let her know you are going to do paternity tests on your kids,too.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Sometimes people will wiggle around the truth by saying they didn't have "sex", but that doesn't mean they weren't physical. Is there some physical line that would be too much for you? If they met, chances are very good that something went on even if it didn't match the dictionary definition of sex. 

I know you don't want to go down that path, but is that because you're certain or because you don't want to even entertain the idea? For your own recovery, you need to have your eyes open looking for the truth. If you are creating your own denial in your mind, it will be hard for you to move past this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Of course people project, but hundreds of dudes on TAM are projecting more or less the same experience post-affair. Almost to the letter, the behavior of a WW is so predictable that you can tell the story, leave out timelines and names, and it would fit probably 99% of the men here.
> 
> Is it possible his wife came right out 100% of what happened with no coaxing to the affair and there's nothing at all left to hide? Sure. But if the OP believed that he wouldn't be here asking. And it certainly would be very, very rare.


Hundreds of dudes and women from all over the world pretty much tell the same story. I mean don't believe us go read SurvivingInfidelity.com just found out section. Read the first 100 posts and you will see 98 of the 100 stories are the same. Maybe in this case OP's situation is an outlier and she is now telling the truth, and this is the only time she cheated, but just going by the numbers I doubt it. 

It's just an unfortunate fact of many people's human nature. It's like large amounts of people like to over eat or lots of people drink too much. Seems lots of people just don't apply fidelity to their relationships even when they promise they will. When they don't they go about lying and hiding it the same way. Because that is really the only way you can lie and hide it.

We are not saying these things to be mean it's just observations we all have made. You can make them yourself OP, go read the board I talked about. You will see it's really the same story over and over. Some are further along in their abuse of their spouse but they all start pretty much like your wife. With poor boundaries testing the limits. Eventually your wife would have physically cheated on you (if she didn't already) and then short term affair would have turned into a long term affair. That is what these people do. Most (like 99%) don't stop. If they are going to stop they do after the first instance. Like a drunken one night stand. 

That is really the problem with this stuff, it isn't a mistake it's a character flaw. So for people like your wife to be a good choice they have to really reshape their character. That is a monumental task. Like training for the Olympics or something. You have to be hyper focused because it involves changing the way you think. That is a very hard thing for adults to do.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Do a search for a 20 minute TED Talk by Helen Fisher: Why We Love, Why We Cheat. I think it will help you understand. It might be good for your wife to look at it too.

Good Luck.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

> *despite her telling and showing me she wants to fix things, I still can't help feeling like I'm 2nd choice and she is staying b/c the other options are less attractive and thus she's putting 100% effort into fixing it. I don't want to be a consolation prize.


There is no way you will ever know for sure. There are several layers to think about:

1. When she first met him, that could not have been true.

2. As time progressed, picked up, infatuation raged, maybe she considered leaving you. Maybe she thought of the potential of the life with the other man, "will the grass be greener?" or "what if I had met other man before I ever met my husband?" or "I wish I had met other man first" or "if other man is able and willing, I will leave my husband and give other man a go, but I don't get the impression other man is able and willing, therefore I will wait." All of these things and more may have occurred in your wife's thoughts, which she either did or did not write it down somewhere or with someone else. Maybe she talked with her girlfriend(s), maybe not. Maybe spoke verbally with other man, maybe not.

3. If she ended it in March, and she is hot and heavy now to fix this thing AFTER she got caught, why is it then, AFTER she got caught, and not sooner, after the affair ended and before you found out?

4. No one puts 100% effort into a consolation prize. Or the least of several attractive options, even if it's the only one left. Not 100% effort. It is possible to be in love with someone, fades a little, then falls in love again. As a matter of fact, there is a whole affair type of "old sweethearts." Almost definitely, while she was cheating, she was prioritizing other man to you and your marriage. Can you compare the dates and times of her sexting with other man, and if she prioritized you and your children?

5. What was said or done by her to make you think that you are NOW still second choice? She may have thought of you as second choice when she was in the affair and now wants you, even if the other guy would sniff around again, and then again maybe if the other guy would sniff around, she would go with him in a second. However, in the latter, I think you'd see her stalking the other man online - can you look at your wife's browsing history to see if she is looking at the other man's social media, etc.? Her searches online, even looking at any music she's listening, the lyrics, and books, movies, etc., can give some insight into where her head is at.



> *she didn't have sex with this guy, but in a way she did.


Yes, it was kind of like cybering. There might have been masturbation, especially I'd think the other man was using it for those purposes. Kind of like phone sex. You've read the messages, was it more explicit hard-core or more flirtiness skirting the edges.



> *how can i get over the fact that she was texting sexual things with another man (just time?) We didn't really sext prior to this happening and doing so now would sort of freak me out and trigger bad thoughts about she she did with him.


As with most of your questions, likely you'll never know the answer. These are her internal thoughts. It is possible that she felt very comfortable doing things outside her comfort zone with the other man because she had nothing to lose with him (if the relationship ended with him, there wouldn't be only an emotional/sexual hurt, but no real consequences like only seeing the kids every other weekend or suffering financially). That is just a possible way that happens, maybe not even probable.

There's an old movie, "Diner," and it's about four friends, one of whom got married, and the other three still pursuing women, and the one who is married says something like, before you were married, you think and talk about (with your girlfriend) sex all time. When can we meet up, when can we do it, how are we going to do it, etc. Then when you get married, you can do it whenever you want, and all of that time and effort is no longer needed.



> Just looking for thoughts...


These were just my thoughts. You still have no answers, and you may never have them. I don't know if those types of questions are polygraph-able or not, if so, that might help you.

At some point you have to go back to what do you know. She married you, had kids with you, either she was a good or bad or indifferent wife, a good or bad or indifferent mother, a good or bad or indifferent self-centered person, these are things you know. Then she at some point met some guy and sexted. At what point did the things you know turn into the things you don't know? Was she doing this with other guys the whole marriage, even during engagement? Was this the first tiime? These types of things, maybe some of them, you probably could pin down a little on a polygraph.

Who knew about the affair? Did the one girlfriend? Did anyone encourage it? Actively give alibis, etc.? Are these "friends" still her friend? Are her friends anti-cheating? What about the one she told she "had a history"? Why did she tell that to one friend, why not let it lie? Trying to brag like, "I had him," or trying to fend off the other friend from getting involved? Did your wife ever give a reason as to why the affair happened? What did she think about you while she was telling lies, being deceptive, and keeping secrets? Did she think it was worth it while she was doing it? Did she figure if you caught it would be bad, but you wouldn't leave her over this? How did she mee Have you checked her browsing history fromt the time the affair ended up to now? How do you feel now about the other man? A nice guy?


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

sokillme said:


> That is really the problem with this stuff, it isn't a mistake it's a character flaw. So for people like your wife to be a good choice they have to really reshape their character.  That is a monumental task. Like training for the Olympics or something. You have to be hyper focused because it involves changing the way you think. That is a very hard thing for adults to do.


I agree with most of what you wrote, but changing your thinking and perception is really pretty easy for adults to do. Depression is caused by hatred turned inward and focusing on negative thoughts. learning how to frame those thoughts and even dismiss them is accomplished by some of the simplest exercises, they are so simple you don't understand how they can work but they do.

If people understand they're deficient in some area and really want to change they can, it's not all that hard. But most people don't want to change, and it's just lip service, this is where it's impossible.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


If it was a PA, and I'd bet a paycheck it was, AND she's reasonably sure you won't be able to prove it, then yes, she'll lie about it. So far all you know is what you have proof of. Nothing was offered of her own free will that you didn't know. I know it sucks my man but I, like so many others, fear you're not even close to the truth. Cheaters being cheaters, she's going to lie about anything you can't prove and want to sweep this under the rug and put it behind both of you as quickly as possible.

Your threat of any new info and it would be over won't phase her. She already was willing to lose it all the very second she started cheating. This is a threat you know she's already willing to risk because she has.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NYCBILL said:


> *So despite me saying that if I ever found out any new info I'd leave in an instant, you think there is little chance of her having told me everything?*


They only tell you what you can verify.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

marriageontherocks2 said:


> I agree with most of what you wrote, but changing your thinking and perception is really pretty easy for adults to do. Depression is caused by hatred turned inward and focusing on negative thoughts. learning how to frame those thoughts and even dismiss them is accomplished by some of the simplest exercises, they are so simple you don't understand how they can work but they do.
> 
> If people understand they're deficient in some area and really want to change they can, it's not all that hard. But most people don't want to change, and it's just lip service, this is where it's impossible.


Then why don't people do it? Maybe we are arguing semantics but I think that a lot of people just follow patterns that have developed from childhood. They may also think they want to change in the moment but the real test comes when it's hard for them not to follow their normal patterns that have given them comfort in the past. The challenge is what they do in the hard moments, in this case for example when they just had a fight with their spouse and the player at work senses this and really comes on to them. What do they do then. Or when they feel like their spouse is disinterested in them for whatever reason. This example is then played out over and over for the rest of their lives, every time being a test. This is why I see this as very hard.

I think one of the realizations that a BS has to come to is that cheating is fun. There is a reason why lots of people do it. It feels good. For some the fun and good feeling may outweigh even the pain of being caught, or watching their BS suffer. That is part of what makes it so dangerous and what makes people who have already cheated emotionally dangerous. Because they have gotten the taste of the forbidden fruit and it taste good. 

Now it is destructive but in the short term just like hardcore drugs, the continual immediate pleasure you feel can sustain you, even when your body or in this case soul is slowly deteriorating. Hence the way that meth addicts look after a while. Cheating to me works the same way. A serial cheater after 20 years ends up being someone with tons of broken relationships, friends, family. Really emotionally alone and stuck in a very shallow existence. Ruined reputation, basically a phony. 

However at the moment it's fun and exciting to be with someone new, to feel them desire you. The reason why you don't do it, the only real reason is because it's wrong. Not even because you love the person you are with, because at that moment you may hate the person you are with. No the only reason is because it's immoral. You don't do it for you, because YOU made a promise. You don't do it because your honor is more important then your feelings. 

To me that is the kind of thinking you want in a spouse. That is the kind of character that you need to look for. It is just so hard to move someone's thinking this far when they have already normalized lying and living a double life. However this is really the point they need to be at for you to be safe. 

Anyway that was a tangent (not the first), but I think it explains why I think it's so hard and it's such a risk to take these people back.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

double post


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> *She will do that no questions asked.*


Well....

If you forgive her, and if it were my wife, I might...

I would make her pay for it in sex coins. In bitcoins.
Not too hard, the bites, more like aggressive nibbling.

And man, she would pay through the nose.

I would bankrupt her....bedrupt her.

Drive her good-will account into the ground.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Well....
> 
> If you forgive her, and if it were my wife, I might...
> 
> ...


I have to say I'm so entertained by this post I don't know if I can be objective enough to decide whether or not it's good advice


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

A few realities. Chances are they had sex. As outside posters not knowing the specifics or dynamics of your relationship and movements we can only comment on the previous experience of the many thousands of stories on here. It is possible there was no sex involved. Highly unlikely though. Cheaters will lie to save their arse. She knows she is within of a cu...nt hair of being tossed to the kerb and having her cosy little life which you provide blown up. Do you really think she is going to confess to anything more?

That said i would purchase a good VAR if i were you discreetly strap it with velcro underneath her drivers side seat then very firmly tell her you are going to contact the other man to get to the truth regarding sex. Then sit back and wait for her to dial him up next time she is in the car to get their stories straight or warn him of your impending phone call. I bet she finds the need to go out for milk or any other so called necessity not long after you drop you will be calling him to establish the truth.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Whelp that was easy...we're scheduled for next week. 500 bucks for peace of mind is good enough for me.

She said she would have no problem doing this for us....especially since she knows I won't be able to move forward until I 100% believe her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Ghost Rider said:


> I just think that the OP and other new posters in CWI should be aware that the advice given here is stock advice that is basically given to everyone. Maybe most of the time it works, but it in some cases it may not be appropriate or applicable. And I think this is or at least could be one of those cases. I just think the OP should be aware of that tendency to project here, and how prevalent it really is.
> 
> A lot of the time posters here are just rehashing their own unfortunate experiences, and not really listening to what an OP is actually saying.
> 
> That's all I'm saying.


It's because all cheaters lie, hide and deny a lot.

The cheaters script is followed in just about every case.

That's all I'm saying :grin2:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> Whelp that was easy...we're scheduled for next week. 500 bucks for peace of mind is good enough for me.
> 
> She said she would have no problem doing this for us....especially since she knows I won't be able to move forward until I 100% believe her.


Figure out the questions, you get 3.



Have you ever had sexual contact including intercourse, oral, kissing with anyone besides your husband between the time you became exclusive including your dating and after your marriage. 

Have you ever had an inappropriate texting relationship besides the one already disclosed at any point from when you became exclusive including your dating and after your marriage.

Is there anything that you have not disclosed about your relationship with the man you had your emotional/sexual affair with.

By the way even if she passes this doesn't make her a safe partner, it just means she is done lying for now. She still has a lot of work to do.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Graywolf2 said:


> Do a search for a 20 minute TED Talk by Helen Fisher: Why We Love, Why We Cheat. I think it will help you understand. It might be good for your wife to look at it too.
> 
> Good Luck.


Some of us don't cheat. So the "we" is kind of presumptuous.

Is there a talk on why some settle?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Sounds like here friends knew too. Those people are not friends of your marriage and should be dumped IMHO. They are toxic.
> 
> You say she will do the polygraph then do it. But check your entire history with her not just this. Now maybe you got the first time who knows but again these things usually are a pattern not a one off. I'm not even saying she is lying to you right now but if she is broken she is a risk. In most of these people it's in their nature. Like alcoholics.
> 
> ...


Really? That is your take? It wasn't mine.

What I read was that the friends did NOT know of the affair and when they found out -at the same time as the OP- the friends all dumped her. So they weren't toxic friends, they were loyal friends to the wife of her AP.


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## arobk (Mar 17, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Hundreds of dudes and women from all over the world pretty much tell the same story. I mean don't believe us go read SurvivingInfidelity.com just found out section. Read the first 100 posts and you will see 98 of the 100 stories are the same. Maybe in this case OP's situation is an outlier and she is now telling the truth, and this is the only time she cheated, but just going by the numbers I doubt it.
> 
> It's just an unfortunate fact of many people's human nature. It's like large amounts of people like to over eat or lots of people drink too much. Seems lots of people just don't apply fidelity to their relationships even when they promise they will. When they don't they go about lying and hiding it the same way. Because that is really the only way you can lie and hide it.
> 
> ...


I will give you a reason, Some people grow up in such conditions of abuse that it is the only state they are used to. A good percentage of people do not know what being treated right feels like.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> It’s not projection at all.
> 
> I’ll say it again —
> 
> ...


i agree that they had some sort of physical contact. It might NOT have been PIV sex though. might have just been kissing or heavy petting. Sometimes people walk right up to that line, and something deep down in their bones makes them back away....even if they both were very horny at the time. I would recommend the polygraph approach to add another data point to the mess.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> wilson said:
> 
> 
> > *She never once has said the affair had anything to do with me or the environment. It had to do with her own unhappy ****ed up self and she went down a horrible path. She has taken 100% of the blame full stop. I get that people are skeptical and maybe I should be more skeptical than I am but can't good people made really bad choices sometimes? Now I feel like I'm back at Day 1.
> ...


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Now that the polygraph is scheduled, should he be monitoring for searches for how to beat a polygraph? I get the impression he could have scheduled it without telling her at all and she wouldn't have objected.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> Honestly, you have no way of knowing this. It's projection and stock CWI advice.


Nope, it’s the plain truth proven again and again.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Your wife did this knowing she could get away with it. 

I guess she “loves” you but has read all of the stories out there where the H forgives and forgets. It’s just sex you know. Also, her gf’s knew about this as well. They were the cover for her during GNO. 

If it was just sexting I don’t think she would have pulled away from the family as she did. That is normal for a PA with emotions involved. If the OM is married, maybe he got what he wanted and then dropped her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

These posts, these texts, these analysis-es of women....

I rather, no, I do feel sorry for them...
Women...in the spotlight.
Their intricate machinations and dreams laid out for all the men to view.
For the men to marvel at, to ogle, to make fun of, to despise.

Having men touch their center of mass.
Touch their central core.
Squeeze, weigh, assess their deepest, subliminal core beliefs.
Their actions, mannerisms, their waist level drives, their sexual differences.

All gone after with glee. A hot pursuit of the one...
The wayward women..

The one who broke away from her moorings.
The one who broke away from her pack.
The one who broke away from tradition. 

This one, these women.
Women who love, who love to be enthralled, to be held and stroked.
Her ego stroked, her curves explored.
Touched lightly with fingers, hands and tongue.
Her face and all other warm places licked and loved.

These are the women who are scorned, excoriated.
When they follow these lusty feelings to 'their' personnel end.
To some new beginning.

The other TAM women see this.
They feel like a butterfly under a microscope, a proctoscope.

And they fear, coming to here, to TAM and opening up their hearts.
Hearts, secret no more.
Seeing the hearts of many ladies sacrificed before her. 

They avoid TAM.

These beautiful creatures, fearing their hearts to be picked at, smelled of, held up to light.

They avoid TAM.

They do not avoid....
The Typist.

Him, he, soon to be the last of the Triune, the others gone.
....................................................................................................
Take her back, OP.
Stroke her from morn to night.

Or leave her for another. One who relishes the task.

The Typist-


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Could you explain a bit about the start and the ending of the sexting? Why were the texting in the first place? How did she redact to his advances ? How were they expressing remorse during? How did it end?

Did her appearance or personal grooming change during this period? How often were they doing this? You said it even affected her relationship with your kids? Who ended it?

Be sure one of the poly questions is whether she felt love for the dude and thought about divorce.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> They had sex, and if she’s saying otherwise, she’s lying.
> 
> Accept this as truth, because it is.


*In tacit agreement with my good friend here!

I would wholeheartedly advise you getting yourself checked out for ASAP for the presence of any STD’s!*


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## Youtoohuh (Dec 1, 2017)

I'm really curious of your poly results. Your story is damn near reflective of my own. Dates, timelines and all its scary. I'm contemplating a poly as well.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

The scheduled polygraph is a very positive step. Just beware that she might now pressure you to drop the polygraph. "It's a waste of $500..." or "I read that polygraph results are really unreliable..."

Make sure she actually goes through with it. Don't let her convince you that simply making an appointment is proof of her honesty. Be prepared for new details to be revealed in the parking lot of the testing facility.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

OP, cheaters lie. They cheat and lie.

You have tried the hard line approach, tell me or else...
That is not likely to work. Try a softer approach, I forgive you fully but I I need to know what I forgive you for, you are free to tell me everything, the worst of the worst, so we can begin to heal and move on, otherwise I cannot live with doubt and would rather live knowing honest truth no matter how hurtful but I will be relieved of doubt so I can forgive you and reconcile fully with you. Of course if she admits to a physical affair you will have to make up your mind on what your next step is. Doubts will drag you down.


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## doconiram (Apr 24, 2017)

OP- if they were in relative proximity to one another- then the odds that they ****ed are exceptionally high. Also, cheaters lie and minimize details- that is normal behavior for a cheater. The odds you are getting the full truth= very very slim.

I absolutely agree with others on the polygraph. Do not tip her off in advance and give her an opportunity before you go inside for a parking lot confession.


Unfortunately, I think you are in for an unwanted disclosure. If not, then it is still money well spent. 

Best of luck


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> Found out my wife had an emotional/sextual affair with an acquaintance back in Jan 2017 which ended in late March 2017. We'd been married for over 10 years with 2 kids (4&7). I had feelings that something was wrong in our marriage starting in late December 2016 but couldn't put my finger on it. I spoke with her 2x during the affair to tell her something was off but she said these were just normal "ebbs and flows" of the marriage. We still were having sex 2-3x a week although it lacked a sense of intimacy that I desired (lots of eye contact and deep kissing). During this time period, my wife basically checked out not only on me but also the kids. She was much more wrapped up in work, was out with her friends more (verified) and just seemed to be doing the bare minimums.
> 
> B/C of my suspicions, I started monitoring her text messages but found nothing overly suspicious until August of this year. In Aug, I found a string of messages between her and this guy that was nothing overly suspicious but definitely longer in length that I would have considered normal for a wife and male friend to be having. My wife (was) is friends this guys wife too. Then I found another message between her and a girlfriend talking making mention of this guy and that they had a "history".
> 
> ...



NYCBill, my suspicion is that they had a bout or two. Assuming the guy was close, adults can only sext but so much. At some point, they're going to want to test drive one another. Even if you wish to believe her (and that's okay), it's best to take a position that she might have done so, as opposed to defaulting that she hadn't. Which takes you to the next step, confirmation. The cost/benefit factor weighs heavily in favor of substantial benefit. A poly will serve the following purposes;

1) *Lying ability *- You will find out the degree and extent of her being able to lie and it sill serve you very well in the future. Cheaters, thrill seekers and manipulators stop at nothing to preserve their reputations and secrets. Often their spouses don't even recognize them as the person they once knew. So by NOT being conclusive and influenced by her demonstrative remorse, etc., it's best to always be in doubt. This will keep you on your toes and lessen the chance of anything getting by you in the future. Be on your toes and pretend that you aren't and you will survive. 

2) *Calculating -* You will find out her ability to connive and scheme. You've taken great lengths to cover all possibilities and devices used, which has provided you with some reassurance. Should you find out more though, she will reveal how skillful she is at deceit and concealing her activities. It means she's really good at deception which will require you to up your game to stay ahead of her. It'll blow you mind if you find back channel communications that you didn't even know about or worse hadn't ever thought about. Doubt this happens, but the effort cheaters invest never ceases to amaze me. 

3) *Risk Taking -* If she screwed him everything changes. It clearly reveals what she's capable of doing and risks she's willing to take, which include but is not limited to, your family's well being, your emotional well being, your marriage, *your physical health*, your financial health and friendships. Infidelity is a high risk, low reward activity. STD tests would need to be administered immediately and you will have to talk with an attorney to at least begin the divorce process. Just start it, that's all. You have to mean business here. Wayward's are capable of being out there and it takes a strong person to reel their asses in. If possible, acknowledge and identify time spent with him, robbed you and your family of time with her. Again, its just a measurement to determine her willingness to satisfy her own ego at the expense of others, in this case you and your kids. Writing a very detailed timeline as to what, when, where, why and how for EVERY connection will help if you haven't done so already. 

4) *Selfishness *- It will reveal the degree of her selfishness and looseness of her boundaries. Unfortunately, attention and validation are somewhat addictive and the amount of "love-drug dealers" in the world are infinite. You're a guy and guys ALWAYS keep an eye out for easy *****. You need to see how strong or weak her boundaries are because she will be tried when she is vulnerable and weak from marriage fatigue (it happens), so in 3, 6, 9, or 12 years from now you'll have to be prepared to protect yourself and your family from the wrath of infidelity 

5) *Audacity -* If the answer is a yes, now the question is, where and when? Did it happen in the house? In your bed FUGGGGG!!! Not good. This will again show how desperate and undisciplined her thinking is. Also, if the guy's not attractive then it reveals how easy or how hungry she can be to hear how love talk. For some reason I don't think she would go to this. Just a hunch. But if she did, it'll be tough to hear. 

6) *Peace of Mind -* This question would always be in my mind and I would need it answered. I tried every mind game in the book when I quizzed my girlfriend about cheating years ago. I told her I was staying with her if she told me the truth. It worked. I lied. She fkd the guy. I was gone the moment she nodded her head yes after my 50th or so time of asking her. I wore her ass down like an FBI investigator interrogating felon. I could't wait to get out of that restaurant where we where. She was chubbier than I like them anyway, and I was already trying to trick myself into thinking she could lose a few pounds as it was. Throw the lying and cheating in and it was easy. 

*Summary*: Regardless if you believe her or not, poly her ass to protect your own. Plain and simple. The answers will allow you to learn more about your wife and where her boundaries lie. The future of your marriage and family can be defined by her truthfulness or her untruths.

*Note**#1* : The reason I think she may have done more is because of the adamant nature of her remorse and cooperation. I thought she was over the top in apologies for just sexting. Not to understate sexting's significance, but the intensity of her regret suggests to me the misdeed matched it. She was text book cooperative. Additionally, she knows demonstrating such conviction would satisfy your ego and discourage you from expanding and deepening your suspicions and questioning. 

Additionally, when you were with her and she was slightly different in bed, I think shame and guilt came upon her from having someone else on top of her in the same manner and position you were in at that time. She triggered at that moment and her body language spoke to you, as she could't help it. I can't imagine sexting would have altered her persona so drastically that it would have tipped you off. Typically, intimate physical activity is what modifies guilt and shameful behavior.

*Note #2:* It's important to remember the arms length view posters like myself have. You know your wife better than any of us, however because opinions on this board are 100% free of the emotion affairs and infidelity entails. This often brings a clearer, objective viewpoints. Your emotion and love for your wife cannot be undone and therefor is obstructing logic and thoughts others like myself will have. Sometimes it's easier to see from afar then it is right on top of something.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Quick update....

The polygraph is scheduled for end of this week and there are no real updates to post. She's been really busy with work (eye doc) but she has not been acting any differently and has said repeatedly that she is looking forward to the test so I can put my mind at ease. To the best of my knowledge, she has not googled anything regarding trying to cheat the test. She also hasn't confessed to anything new so I'm hopeful that the results will indicate as such.

questions will be asked around if the relationship was physical in any way, if prior cheating had occured etc.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> Quick update....
> 
> The polygraph is scheduled for end of this week and there are no real updates to post. She's been really busy with work (eye doc) but she has not been acting any differently and has said repeatedly that she is looking forward to the test so I can put my mind at ease. To the best of my knowledge, she has not googled anything regarding trying to cheat the test. She also hasn't confessed to anything new so I'm hopeful that the results will indicate as such.
> 
> questions will be asked around if the relationship was physical in any way, if prior cheating had occured etc.


I am betting on her being honest.

And honestly, that means I am betting on you getting better, though never, not over this.

In a few years, if all goes well, it will be in the past.
An Ace up your sleeve.

Play this like a strong man, a pro. You will benefit, of this I am sure.

But, watch her for the rest of your lives.
That too, is the price.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

I can almost guarantee you that the timeline of her affair will change. It’s almost always the case. Your gut said late December ‘16, I bet it started a few months before. Of course, she will say that “it was all innocent texts in the beginning” and “escalated to sexting in January”. Is that a dealbreaker for you?


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Tobyboy said:


> I can almost guarantee you that the timeline of her affair will change. It’s almost always the case. Your gut said late December ‘16, I bet it started a few months before. Of course, she will say that “it was all innocent texts in the beginning” and “escalated to sexting in January”. Is that a dealbreaker for you?



Well remember that we were all friends...so there is no doubt that some texting went on beforehand. I've even texted with the dude's wife occasionally but nothing crossing the line. I'd say that in early December he went "fishing" and tried to push the envelope a bit, she finally bit in late December which is where they have both said things started moving into XXX territory. I'll have to go back and dig through the data dump from the Phone Rescue Program. 

What I care about most is A)When did the behavior cross the line b)Was there physical touching of any kind, and c)has it happened in the past.


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## doconiram (Apr 24, 2017)

Good luck. I hope I am wrong and that yours will prove to be the exception. However, be prepared and provide an opportunity for a parking lot confession. Make sure you follow thru. 

Peace


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Whelp she passed the test.....Results came back as saying she hadn't had affairs (physical/emotional) in the past, the affair she did have was NOT physical. I feel better knowing she was telling the truth.

I guess this is the 1% that didn't take it all the way. I take some solace that she didn't although I still get ill thinking about the pics she sent him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NYCBILL said:


> Whelp she passed the test.....Results came back as saying she hadn't had affairs (physical/emotional) in the past, the affair she did have was NOT physical. I feel better knowing she was telling the truth.
> 
> I guess this is the 1% that didn't take it all the way. I take some solace that she didn't although I still get ill thinking about the pics she sent him.


I guess that’s good news.

Well... until you think about the fact that polys are crap based on crap science.

The more likely explanation is that your wife is a skilled liar.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Glad to hear for your sake that she passed the poly whether she physically betrayed you with him or any others. 

Of course you should feel ill that she she sent pics and even considered it. She cheated (emotionally) and lied about it 3 times. That is awful. Has she explained to you why she had not met him? Who broke it off? 

You are going to need a lot of time to process this. Perhaps marriage counseling where you can press on what the heck she was thinking when she did this? As well as letting her know in front of a trained professional the absolute loss and emptiness you are now feeling in your marriage. 

Did she have any friends who encouraged her in this endeavor? Or good ones who warned her to knock it off?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Give yourself a little time to think about what you want and the next steps. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

NYCBILL said:


> Whelp she passed the test.....Results came back as saying she hadn't had affairs (physical/emotional) in the past, the affair she did have was NOT physical. I feel better knowing she was telling the truth.
> 
> I guess this is the 1% that didn't take it all the way. I take some solace that she didn't although I still get ill thinking about the pics she sent him.


Congrats, she only cheated once. 

What now?


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Malaise said:


> Congrats, she only cheated once.
> 
> What now?


We move forward....the fact that she didn't physically cheat is good enough for me to try and reconcile. We have tons to work on but I need all I need to know from the affair side.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> Well remember that we were all friends...so there is no doubt that some texting went on beforehand. I've even texted with the dude's wife occasionally but nothing crossing the line. I'd say that in early December he went "fishing" and tried to push the envelope a bit, she finally bit in late December which is where they have both said things started moving into XXX territory. I'll have to go back and dig through the data dump from the Phone Rescue Program.
> 
> What I care about most is A)When did the behavior cross the line b)Was there physical touching of any kind, and c)has it happened in the past.


Hope you exposed his ass to his wife. And punched him in his head (sorry I take that back).


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> We move forward....the fact that she didn't physically cheat is good enough for me to try and reconcile. We have tons to work on but I need all I need to know from the affair side.


She has a lot more work to do then you do. You didn't cheat, is she in IC? What books has she read. "Not just friends" would be one I can think of off the top of my head. I Is she posting on any boards going to counseling? Don't assume that because she cheated your marriage was bad. Also you are NOT responsible lots of people have bad marriages and don't cheat and people in GOOD marriages cheat all the time, because they are entitled or stupid, or don't think they will get caught, or narcissists, all of them are *******s. That's the point she should be doing hard work to find out why because if not you may not be safe. 

You still may not be safe. Most of the time people who do like this do it because something is not right and it's in their nature. Usually they are just hard people to be married to as far as I can see, because honesty and openness is a basic part of friendship let alone marriage. She has proven she has it in her to lie and cheat, despite what other say not all of us do. Could you? Which means you are settling. Now that is your choice, maybe you will completely get over this. However don't assume you will, there are plenty of stories out there of people who get over the initial trauma and pretty much fall out of love with their cheating spouse, lots of times because the lose respect for them or just things are hard and they wonder why they are doing all this work for someone who wasn't even loyal to them. They get tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop and really getting over it means killing the love they had for their partner because loving their partner now causes them pain and fear.

I hope for her sake she gets all this and works her ass off. I hope you get all this and know what you are signing up for and don't waste years of your life only to change your mind. Stop thinking you are her second choice and instead start thinking she is yours, because you would not have chosen to marry a cheater. The dynamic at least for a while needs to be you expecting her to prove to you she is worth the investment. 

Finally I hope you told the guys wife. (and she sent you naked pictures, that's a joke but you know what, that would be a hell of a lot more fair).


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## why_amihere (Sep 26, 2017)

NYCBILL said:


> We move forward....the fact that she didn't physically cheat is good enough for me to try and reconcile. We have tons to work on but I need all I need to know from the affair side.


Now that you have firmly decided on R the work can begin. It will be hard but it IS possible. She will have to do most of the heavy lifting but you have some things to do as well. Hopefully you two can keep the lines of communication open and honest. Best of luck in your R and the board is always here if you need to ask questions of those who have been through it.


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## Youtoohuh (Dec 1, 2017)

Good luck Bill as I too am in the same boat as you. To the poster above... I'm having a very hard time finding those who have been through it. Reconciliation that is. There are PLENTY here that have made it out the other side of Marraige and into D but very few who stuck to their find and did the (real) hard work. I hope you, like myself are prepared for the lifetime of daily reminders. She's worth it right? To you at least and that's all that matters. As long as she's worth it to YOU.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

sokillme said:


> .
> 
> Stop thinking you are her second choice and instead start thinking she is yours, because you would not have chosen to marry a cheater. The dynamic at least for a while needs to be you expecting her to prove to you she is worth the investment.
> 
> ...


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

Very true, very few successful R stories on this board. Lots of very angry men/women (rightfully so) who view R as weakness or as a sign of settling. I don't view it that way today (could change) but I understand why there is such skepticism. She has a ton of work to do on herself and has been going to her own therapist for 3 months and we've been seeing a MC for 3 months, plus I see my own for solo work. 

I'll know very easily if she's sliding back into her old ways, if she's not passionate, etc. I won't make the same mistake I did last time and stick around for the dumpster fire.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Newsflash — they’re aren’t many successful reconciliation stories _anywhere_, and that’s mostly because the majority of waywards don’t have what it takes to actually reconcile.

You also have the betrayeds that don’t have the fortitude, wherewithal, common sense, balls, or whatever else to actually handle reconciliation, and so they settle for something significantly less meaningful... though they’ve somehow been suckered into thinking they’ve obtained something of great value. 

And, to a much lesser degree, you have your betrayeds that — depending on which boundaries have been crossed — see betrayal for exactly what it is and, as a result, simply have no interest in reconciliation. And so they pull the plug.

Most of what you’ll find on other boards (Hell, this one too) is different flavors of _rugsweeping *masquerading* as reconciliation_.

Not divorcing is not the same as reconciling, nor is it the hallmark of a successful marriage.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Newsflash — they’re aren’t many successful reconciliation stories _anywhere_, and that’s mostly because the majority of waywards don’t have what it takes to actually reconcile. Which is?
> 
> You also have the betrayeds that don’t have the fortitude, wherewithal, common sense, balls, or whatever else to actually handle reconciliation, and so they settle for something significantly less meaningful... though they’ve somehow been suckered into thinking they’ve obtained something of great value. Explain?
> 
> ...


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

NYCBILL said:


> Very true, very few successful R stories on this board. Lots of very angry men/women (rightfully so) who view R as weakness or as a sign of settling. I don't view it that way today (could change) but I understand why there is such skepticism. She has a ton of work to do on herself and has been going to her own therapist for 3 months and we've been seeing a MC for 3 months, plus I see my own for solo work.
> 
> I'll know very easily if she's sliding back into her old ways, if she's not passionate, etc. I won't make the same mistake I did last time and stick around for the dumpster fireQUOTE]
> I think I can count my R story successful. My wife had an EA years ago. Poly.....done years ago.
> ...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

NYC the positive aspect of this is that she knows that you will not put up with this kind of crap again and you will once again drag her ass to take another poly, I suspect that she respect you for not rug-sweeping this, like others have done and she will need to work at building up trust again....one question does your wife send you sexy pictures?


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

NYCBILL said:


> I'll know very easily if she's sliding back into her old ways, if she's not passionate, etc. I won't make the same mistake I did last time and stick around for the dumpster fire.


This sounds like a good plan, especially since you have kids. Hopefully you'll put this all behind you. 

Be sure you also forgive her and don't hold this over her in the future. Do not bring it up in arguments unless it's actually relevant. It's very easy to whip out this trump card every time you have a disagreement, which isn't fair to her. Yes, it is something she did, but she doesn't need to have it hanging around her neck forever. Allow her to move on from it.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

NYCBILL,

Although she said she didn't physically cheat, did she also say she did not pleasure herself while thinking about him which would count as a kind of physical infidelity.

Tamat


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

NYCBill:

I agree that there are favorable conditions for R.

Just make sure she understands any further transgressions will result in her being promptly served with divorce papers, the information exposed to the world, and her butt expediently kicked to the curb. I may even use those terms, or something similar.

Also, you remind her that it is not her definition of cheating that will trigger these actions...but rather yours, and yours alone.

Good luck, man.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Mental/imaginative cheating is far worse in my opinion. At least with physical sex there's a tangible metric it can be quantified by good, so-so, bad etc. 

No one ever visually imagines mediocre sex. As role players the participants will not only be exaggerating the intimacy or just raw out and out physicality but also projecting onto the other person their desires and carnal wants.
The wife was disconnected from sex maybe out of guilt but maybe more out of how it lacked in comparison to the imagined exploits of her and her affair partner.

That seed may have always been there. That seed is now planted. Least the OP hopes that in the future her curiosity about attaining her imagined goal of mind-blowing sex is not projected onto an available future suitor who fits her fantasy man type.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

You asked: I get that people are skeptical and maybe I should be more skeptical than I am but can't good people made really bad choices sometimes? 

My answer is yes, good people make mistakes everyday. Some people will go down believing that she physically cheated, while other will accept the results of the polygraph. My belief is that it is irrelevant in either case. What your real question is, will she cheat again if we reconcile? I have no crystal ball to give you that answer, so you two are going to have to take a leap of faith. Still in saying that it is not blind faith that I am talking about. What makes success possible is having a stronger relationship, one in which you two are equal and supporting partners of one another, forsaking all others. A successful marriage is not one built on one partner being superior, nor is fear a good tool, whether that be fear of infidelity or abandonment. 

The only thing left is can you get past her affair? Some folks can forgive immediately, while others never can not get past the betrayal, this is something only you can answer. I believe most relationships can be repaired with hard work. I would highly recommend counseling to strengthen the relationship and learn how to better communicate with one another. Yes life will have its ebb and flows, but if you two can communicate the problems, then you will be able to work through them. I wish you and your family all the best and hope that you enjoy a happy holiday season.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I guess that’s good news.
> 
> Well... until you think about the fact that polys are crap based on crap science.
> 
> The more likely explanation is that your wife is a skilled liar.


Unless, of course, the poly proves that the spouse is a cheater then it's* good *science, right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> NYCBill:
> 
> I agree that there are favorable conditions for R.
> 
> ...


Would a post-nuptial be a good idea?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

VFW said:


> You asked: I get that people are skeptical and maybe I should be more skeptical than I am but can't good people made really bad choices sometimes?
> 
> My answer is yes, good people make mistakes everyday.


Yes they do. Everyday. 

But she made the 'mistake' for two months.

It's not as if she screwed up and sent one naughty text.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Malaise said:


> Yes they do. Everyday.
> 
> But she made the 'mistake' for two months.
> 
> It's not as if she screwed up and sent one naughty text.


So, one night, one month, six months, you are still left with the same decision. Clearly you would not forgive in this circumstance and as I already said some folks can never forgive, you are in that group. However it is not your decision to make but the OP. He knows this woman better than all of us and only he can or should make that decision.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

VFW said:


> So, one night, one month, six months, you are still left with the same decision. Clearly you would not forgive in this circumstance and as I already said some folks can never forgive, you are in that group. However it is not your decision to make but the OP. He knows this woman better than all of us and only he can or should make that decision.


To clarify:

One naughty text, one time, is not the same as sexting for months.

One can be just a stupid childish mistake and , while still wrong, doesn't sink to the level of a prolonged affair.

I could work with the first, highly doubtful with the second.

OP can do as he likes. He's here to get the opinions of others and he can take those opinions or leave 'em.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Unless, of course, the poly proves that the spouse is a cheater then it's* good *science, right?


It’s junk either way.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

> Then I found another message between her and a girlfriend talking making mention of this guy and that they had a "history".


This is one part that doesn't make sense, not that cheating wives always make sense. But it almost always make sense to them. Why say this to a girlfriend? Was this her being territorial (this other guy, if he did it with your wife, likely was open for other of his wives' (so-called) "friends")? Was this her being a braggart (_"he's hot and I could have had him!"_)?

Ultimately, when the affair was brought out in the light, her friends abandoned her.

When things don't make sense, usually something is missing, maybe an outright lie, maybe an omission. That one part doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you have more insight.

Also: Communication is key. Arguably, lack of communication caused this mess. Definitely lack of communication on her side. Communication and transparency walk hand in hand.

This has damaged your marriage. At best, there will be a scar that doesn't hurt and you only notice it occassionally. There probably are literally hundreds of careless or unthinking words and actions between you and her, heated arguments, you being angry with her or her being angry with you, and most likely you've forgotten them completely. You remember you were angry one time, but you don't even remember why. If you think hard enough, it might come to you. But cheating, even the most mild kind your wife did, I don't think that ever happens. You always remember it. Maybe you reach a point where you don't think about it every day or even every week, but triggers occur from time to time. Maybe communication is better, sex is better, intimacy is better, but that is always there. That's been my observation lurking around. Maybe happy people don't post.



> *how can i get over the fact that she was texting sexual things with another man (*just time?*) We didn't really sext prior to this happening and doing so now would sort of freak me out and trigger bad thoughts about she she did with him.


Yes, mostly time, but only if she consistently proves trustworthy. If she consistently, over a very long time, acts and talks in such a way to be committed and trustworthy, trust will return. The hurt comes in part from having believed, due to your long time together overcoming many obstacles and through times good and bad, she had acted and said things that earned your trust. Now, in a few short months, big mountain of trust has been eroded to a few pebbles of sand. It will take a long time for her, through word and action, to earn trust and rebuild that mountain, pebble by pebble.



> Found out my wife had an emotional/sextual affair ... Jan 2017 which ended in late March 2017.
> 
> I had feelings that something was wrong in our marriage starting in late December 2016


If you felt something wrong in December, the affair started in January, ended in March, why were you still investigating in August? Did she not come back to engage in the marriage, even when her affair ended? Her initial excuse, "ebbs and flows" in a normal marriage, had it not stop ebbing and start flowing again yet? If so, then wouldn't you have kind of believed her initial assessment, just an "ebb" in December, and flowing again by August? Just another thing that doesn't make sense to me.

Who ended it? You said you saw her messages, who was the aggressor (even if he was the initial aggressor, the most common situation I see is that the guy wants sex initially but the woman gets caught up with the attention, and then the woman becomes the aggressor to chase the addictive highs of attention)?



> My wife says the thought of losing friends never occurred to her which shows you the power of attraction while this was actually happening.


So it was a very powerful relationship. In other posts, I get the sense you discount the depth of her relationship with him. In this one the indication is it was so strong that she could not see the obvious, blinded by attraction (or love).


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

NYCBILL,

I am tend to be more in the D camp in general. But I am also in the PA is way worse than a EA camp. Its just how I am wired. If others see it different then fine. To each his own.

In your case I think R is a real possibility. Some positives.....no physical contact, she was exposed, lost friends over it, seems to have turned a 180. Reacted to the poly demand exactly like one should. It was all fantasy and unicorns. Now the reality seems to have slapped her.

Going forward you are in the position of power. She has had a shot a across her bow. She should know if she pulls this crap again its over. 

Best wishes.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Malaise said:


> To clarify:
> 
> One naughty text, one time, is not the same as sexting for months.
> 
> ...


I understand that YOU could not and when it is your choice to make then go for it. That does not mean that is the correct decision, it just means it is the correct decision for you. I have seen relationships reconcile from infidelity and go on to live great lives. When you can do so, I think that is a good thing, but it doesn't happen all that often. It didn't happen for me either, but I don't regret giving it a try. These aren't right or wrong decisions, but a personal choice. My only recommendation is if you can't get over the infidelity, then just be honest and upfront and end the relationship.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Would a post-nuptial be a good idea?


They are mostly symbolic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> They are mostly symbolic.


That's interesting. I hadn't realised that.

They are not, generally, recognised in UK courts at all.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

VFW said:


> I understand that YOU could not and when it is your choice to make then go for it. That does not mean that is the correct decision, it just means it is the correct decision for you. I have seen relationships reconcile from infidelity and go on to live great lives. When you can do so, I think that is a good thing, but it doesn't happen all that often. It didn't happen for me either, but I don't regret giving it a try. These aren't right or wrong decisions, but a personal choice. My only recommendation is if you can't get over the infidelity, then just be honest and upfront and end the relationship.


To be fair, it often takes your average betrayed anywhere from a few weeks to a few years to realize that he or she “can’t get over” an affair.


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