# How do I tell her?



## Introubledeep (Mar 22, 2012)

My wife sees me as a provider, a room mate, a friend, but she does not see me as her husband and lover.

After our child was born (8 years ago) she went through a time of saying she wanted me to leave. I guess in fear of losing all, I submitted to accepting that I had to accept a lower standard of closeness, intimacy, warmth than I hoped for rather than end up divorced. I was not prepared to destroy my marriage and break my wedding vows.


She has told me MANY MANY times that our child is far more important to her than I am and she seems to get some sort of satisfaction from the pain it causes me.

My wife completely withdrew from any form of sexual relationship with me for 2 years. She shunned almost every advance for even a hug or a kiss. She sleeps in bed with my child, I sleep alone in a single bed in another bedroom almost every night.

In the last 5 years we have sexual intimacey about once every 4-6 months (yes months, not days or weeks). She never initiates, and when we have sex she seems to just want to get it over and done with; no long hugs, no massages, no experimenting, virtually no kissing. It is pretty much Wham Bam done. This is not the way I want it, but she won't let it go any other way. Besides, I am so starved of physical intimacy I lose control very quickly anyway when the rare moment comes where she will let me have sex with her.

I guess she is just reflecting physically what she feels emotionally...

Yeah Im hurtin.

Oddly, we are good friends in many respects and talk about all sorts of things and have a few common interests.


I have crumpled under the pain and taken some wrong paths to try to fill the void of having no intimacey. I fell into looking at pornography and masturbating to have some sexual release and out let. Not very satisfying having a relationship with a computer screen and a box of tissues What I really want is to make love with my wife

I believe that if I ever told her about this, there would be HELL to pay, so i haven't. I have suffered in silence for 8 years now. 

About 2 years ago I met a woman who absolutely ignited me, like holy cow what just hit me! I KNOW the feeling was mutual. 

I ignored this and deliberately stayed right away from this woman, I knew that I was in great danger of committing infidelity. However, I ran into her again a couple of times (no I did not go looking for her!!!!), and in the last few weeks things have ignited into a relationship albeit almost entirely by text messages. Nothing overtly wrong, nothing dirty, just subtle expressions of affection and desire, although getting less and less subtle. Nothing physical has happened, mostly because I avoid spending time in physical company with her, I simply do not trust that I can resist if tested, and tested I surely will be. 

This has created a crises for me that makes it impossible for me to go on living in a world with no passion, no closeness, no intimacy. I can't do it any more.

I have come to the realisation that I am in a major crises I can no longer ignore. I feel that I must completely openly tell my wife what I am thinking feeling, experiencing, the pain and lonliness I have felt over the last 8 years, and that we need to try to make our marriage meet my needs for closeness and intimacey, both emotionally and physically and fix it. Undoubtedly there will be things she will want to change too, like wanting a divorce I suspect. This will be a win or lose everything move if I do it. My wife will not simply accept what I am saying, and she will quite likely say "Well if that is the way you feel, get out". She will say something along the lines of you are a sex maniac and you should grow up! At your age you shouldn't want sex! (I am only in my 40s and it's not about sex, its about intimacey both emotional and physical)

How do I even begin to have this conversation with my wife? How do I avoid it turning into a raging firestorm from my wife?



The alternative seems to be to take the dark path of having a secret lover, but I don't think I could cope with the shame and the guilt, but if something doesn't change real soon in my marriage, this is the path I am heading for.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A few things...

First, are you willing to live this way? Sounds like the answer is no, you won't.

Second, are you willing to have an affair behind her back? Again, no.

Third, "we are good friends in many respects and talk about all sorts of things and have a few common interests". Fine. If you want a roommate, congratulations. You have one. Is that what you want? Again, no.

So, what are your options? If you have a frank discussion with her, telling her you promised monogamy but not celibacy, that if she wants her needs met, she has to meet your needs, that you want to make this marriage work and are willing to go to marriage counseling and she still refuses to budge, you have to be prepared to say that the marriage is over.

This can't be an idle threat. Think a lot about what will happen if she refuses to change and you pull the trigger on this option. If you can live with the consequences, make that more.

if you can't, and all those previous answers are still "no", you're stuck in a bad place.

BTW - masturbating is NOT the "wrong path" unless you are deeply religious. That's HER kind of thinking... sex is unnecessary and dirty.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The choice is easy. Tell her. Tell her everything.

Your wife doesn't want you. No matter how you try to spin it, she's shown you over the past 8 years you were a sperm donor and she's been over it. Raging firestorm? Really? Man up and give her just what she gives you. You've earned the right.

What are you really losing from telling her? A house? Some money? It's all STUFF. It can all be replaced... what can't be replaced is your peace of mind. No more lonliness... no more pain. Isn't that worth it??


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

First of all, your wife has already destroyed your marriage and broken her wedding vows by ignoring one of your most basic needs...sex.

I find it quite unlikely that she will want to change this dymanic. Your marriage is dead and she has been walking all over you for 8 years. She has zero respect for you.

First, before talking to your wife, talk to a lawyer and find out what your rights are regarding the marital home, child custody and financial issues.

Do not continue communicating with the other woman. You are close to or are already involved with her in an emotional affair! Be a stand up man and divorce your wife before this relationship goes any further. Do not have an affair!

I'm sorry but it looks as if your marriage is already dead. Time to pronounce it DOA and move on.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been contemplating that conversation with my wife, too, and have been for some time, even though it sounds like your situation is even more f*cked up than mine. Still, I have some thoughts which may help you out.

1. First, cut things off with the other woman. I understand that she's filling a hole in your heart and ego, i.e. "well how about that, I'm a desirable, likeable man after all". But you don't need the confusion in your life right now, and you especially don't need to be "that guy", the one who screws around on his wife. You don't want to at this point, but keep going down this road and you may well find that "the heart wants what it's wants", and that your will is weaker than you would have guessed.

2. Lose the fear. The fear of your wife's anger, of an unknown future, whatever else you may be scared of. This isn't a slam; I very much identify with those fears and they're natural. But just as you can't make a decision based upon another woman in the wings, you can't make a decision based on fear, and you can't have this conversation with your wife if you're afraid of her reaction or what the future may hold. Your wife is responsible for her reaction, not you. The only person you can control is yourself.

3. Keep calm, cool, collected, and focused. If she gets angry, lashes out, blames you for everything including the price of gas, changes the subject, whatever, don't take the bait. Stay calm and stay on point. I don't know about you, but I tend to exhibit fear and frustration as anger. Don't go there.

4. Don't give ultimatums or establish boundaries that you aren't willing to back up. If you tell her either both of you are in this 100% or the marriage ends in divorce, be prepared to follow up on the divorce part the next morning with attorney phone numbers already written down.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I had to have that talk with my wife about 18 months ago, and I know your pain. It was the second worse day of my life. Worst was the day we (I) told the kids. 

On the other hand, the feeling of relief once it was finally out in the open was immense! 

In my case, I picked an afternoon when I was working from home and the kids were in school. I figured that would give her time to get herself back together emotionally before seeing them, and it worked as well as could be expected/hoped. By the time I got to the point of talking to her about it, I had gone to see a MC on my own just to sound out where I was at, and discovered that I had grieved the loss of my marriage over the past 6 months already, so my part of the talk and subsequent process was fairly emotionless. Hers, not so much obviously. She knew something was wrong, but was in denial about its severity.

Anyway, there's lots more to my story, but I'll stop here. Basically, you just need to bite the bullet, get the toxins out of your system, and hopefully you'll feel better after.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

First off, anyone who says that the kids come first in a marriage has gotten completely off track. If a parent puts their kids before their spouse is ultimately dooming their marriage because that intimacy between spouses goes away.

As for what to do next, I'd recommend writing her a letter telling her everything you're feeling. Give it to her when she has time to read it and absorb everything. Then schedule a nice lunch somewhere private to discuss. You've got to open the lines of communication or else it'll never get better.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Why are you so scared of your wife? Your own words state that you have already thought about and expect her wanting a divorce. What is it that you fear so much other than the divorce? 

You said there would be "Hell To Pay". What is this "hell" you're talking about?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Don't take this the wrong way indeeptrouble but you need to MAN THE HELL UP for god's sake.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I can understand why you don't want to go through divorce. It SUCKS! It's horrible, awful, the worst thing I've been through. But. I had to crawl through fire to get where I am. I see it like this. You feel like your whole life and self is on fire...but eventually the fire goes out. I learned that there are flowers that will only reproduce and grow after a fire. I see my divorce the same way. 
My life is 100% better three years later. 
She seems incapable of love and intimacy. 
As for masturbation and porn, what are you supposed to do? Have wrt dreams like a 13 y.o? She has no right to dictate what you do with your body if she won't participate in your sex life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She is hurting your child emotionally by holding on SO TIGHTLY. There is no reason an 8 year old child needs to sleep with a parent. 

Also, she is very hurtful for you which is very, very wrong  Were you just a sperm donor for her? her actions are sickening and sooo painful, I'm sure.


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello 
8 years.... Waoow, that is wayyyyyyyy too long to stay in the shadow. Your feelings need to be say here, and you know that because it's what you want. What get in your way of telling her? I can tell there is a fear of seeying a divorce for an answer, but what else is holding you back?
It's seemed very important for you that you give you wedding voeu and it's a beautiful value for sure. 8 years of no real true love... What could be the worst if you tell her?
What can you control in this situation? She doesn't seem like she is going to change her mind so what can YOU do to be happy?
I think the most important right now is really to take the time to talk to her. Sometime it helps to tell her in advance: hey (darling, sweetie pie, whatever how you call her), I would like to have a important conversation with you, What would be a good time for you?
You know, if you want to talk to her when you are ready, it doesn't mean that she will be ready to ear what you have to say. You want a calm and no hurry atmosphere to talk about this. So, where would it be a good time that she can listen to you?


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## Introubledeep (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey everyone, thank you so much for your feed back, I really appreciate it, it is having a positive impact on me. 

Yes, I fear divorce. My parents divorced when I was 18 and I remember the pain it caused me, and I don't want my child to go through that. That is probably the main thing holding me back. I simply don't think I have the right to inflict that on my child in order to pursue my own selfish "happiness". I take my responsibility to provide for my childs needs very seriously, children need a steady stable and loving home, ideally with both parents. Also my marriage vows were for better for worse...currently it is at worst...I hope that doesn't mean it is over...watch this space. 

If my wife and I were fighting and overtly abusing each other then it is not good for my child and I should do something about it for my childs sake, but my wife and I are actually friends (but not lovers, hence my pain) My wife knows that I fear/hate divorce and when I look back I see that she used this to control me to some extent. Still I know that I can't control what my wife decides to do if I initiate this conversation. 

I fear the consequences for my child's well being and happiness more than anything else. If a divorce comes of this, a likely response from my wife will be to try to stop me from spending time with my daughter. I love my daughter very much and I can't contemplate life without her, and I don't want to be the cause of lots of unhappiness for her, I won't lightly go there. If it is a consequence from something I can't control, so be it, but I don't want to be the cause of it.

As for the other woman; I know that this potential relationship is almost certainly doomed to failure, but if I am honest, OMG it is sweet - therefore very dangerous. It is a symptom of my loneliness and unfulfilled marriage, not the cause of my marriage problems. I think the true issue is not so much that I want to run off with this woman (although this is becoming a very real temptation), more that it has ignited some passion in my life and awakened me from a deep painful slumber. I guess it is the frog in water analogy. Apparently (I haven't tried this!) If you place a frog in water and very slowly heat the water up, the frog will stay in the water until it dies. It thinks that the water must be the coolest place. However, if you throw a frog in warm (not hot) water it will react and leap out straight away. I am the frog in the water being heated, the changes have occurred slowly enough for me to not really notice the changes in a shocking enough way to react. My sadness and lonliness has ratched up little bit by little bit, and each little bit I have accepted rather than precipitate a divorce and hurt my wife and child. However, in recent times having my heart explode with the excitement of the attention from this other woman, highly desirable woman to me anyway, has suddenly brought my life into sharp focus, (the frog has been thrown into the warm water and wants to jump out). I have realised that my situation is miserable, and I can't keep pretending otherwise, something needs to change.

I hope to find a way to bring about a positive change, just not sure how to proceed. As for the wifes raging fire storm that I anticipate; I want to cook some steak (ie try to fix our problems) and you need fire to do that, but in a controlled way. It isn't going to work if you try to cook steak on a raging inferno from a burning fuel tanker, you need an asbestos suit at least or you won't survive! Once I start this dialogue with my wife, the fire is going to burn plenty hot and I am not sure what is going to survive. Continuing with the BBQ analogy, I can't survive any more on eating lettuce only, I need some more sustainance in my life to grow and be content. I would like some fine premium steak, but being realistic I would settle for some sausages, but I can't go on with the lettuce only diet.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Toffer said:


> broken her wedding vows by ignoring one of your most basic needs...sex.


I didn't know "sex" or the promise of not "ignoring one of your basic needs" was in the wedding vows, but um.....okay......whatever.

Introubledeep, after you found this board, how ever recent or long ago that was, you did quite a bit of reading before actually sitting down to write your own story and request for advice. My question is how many times did you read marriage counseling being suggested? So, I wonder why you (and so many others) feel this board to be the place to be rather than in counseling. 

The reason I wonder is that I question that you can expect to get help from this group of unprofessional strangers. You have so many fears, particularly fearing your wife's response to your attempt to talk with her......when you already KNOW what her reaction and response will be.

So, you came here with only your skewed side of the story as the noble, long-suffering and devoted husband, knowing you will undoubtedly get the responses you seek that confirm you - all in your favor and all disparaging of your horrible, neglectful wife. I am not so easily convinced. There is no doubt in my mind that your wife has her reasons. She has stated more than once that she wants you to leave, and I am supposed to believe she has no reason for that. She sleeps with the 8 year old, rather than in your bed, and I am supposed to believe she has no reason for that. I wouldn't even doubt she is one of the women on these boards (or a similar website) complaining about you.



Introubledeep said:


> If it is a consequence from something I can't control, so be it, but I don't want to be the cause of it.


Moreover, I find it very interesting that your committment to your wedding vows and your intense determination not to drag your daughter through a divorce are suddenly subject to change pending the outcome of this ultimatum you plan present to your wife. And still no mention of marriage counseling (hmmmm). By whatever means necessary, you will make sure to convince yourself and your daughter that it's all your wife's fault. You are so full of bull that it's shameful.

I suggest you stop thinking about your poor self and ignoring the obvious sources of real help, if, that is, advice is what you truly seek. Otherwise, the outcome of a relationship (and future marriage) with this other woman, or any other woman, will be exactly the same. If you just want confirmation and absolution, then you made sure to receive plenty of what you came looking for, and divorce is in your future. You already knew it while trying to convince this board of unprofessional strangers that you are once again trying your level best but are being tested beyond your human limit.


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## Nigel (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder what your wife's reaction would be if you told her that you could be granted a divorce on the grounds of her unreasonable behaviour? Sometimes when people hear that they are at fault from another person, especially if that person is a solicitor it may actually force her to confront her own behaviour.

Did you and your wife ever have a loving and close relationship and did it only change after the birth of your child? If so has she been assessed for post natal depression or had her her hormone levels checked out? I'd explore every single avenue of saving your marriage first before considering getting a divorce, if it turns out your wife is ill, she can get better and I you divorce her before then you've lost everything potentially for nothing? I don't know whether this is the case or not, I'm no expert, but it is perhaps something to consider?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Toffer:

Although I wouldn't have put it in exactly those words, I've felt similar things here sometimes. No offense to introubledeep or anyone here who has a genuine problem, bu it seems to me that some people come to these boards only after they feel they're relationship is beyond repair, but are afraid to pull the trigger on divorce, either because they already survived one or because they're afraid of how painful divorce will be. They've already made their choice, and they come here looking for validation from strangers because they don't feel they can tell their friends, probably because they're afraid their friends will advise them to not give up when they already have.

I think I'm more concerned with people who enter a thread, and their first response to the OP is to immediately recommend divorce as the only solution. It reminds me of those radio shrinks who diagnose a caller after a three minute conversation. I don't think they're helpful to anybody, the OP, the other readers or themselves.

The TAM boards should be a place of an open exchange of ideas for real issues, not a platform to complain about your spouse. I always try to rember that, when I open a thread, no matter how balanced the OP tries to be, we're only getting one side of the story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Introubledeep (Mar 22, 2012)

My response to the following quote: 

"Introubledeep, after you found this board, how ever recent or long ago that was, you did quite a bit of reading before actually sitting down to write your own story and request for advice. My question is how many times did you read marriage counseling being suggested? So, I wonder why you (and so many others) feel this board to be the place to be rather than in counseling" etc

My truthful answer, first time ever on anything even remotely like this forum was 48 hours ago. Never even read anything like this forum, didn't even know they existed before that. Never read a marriage counselling book, where would be a good place to buy one? How would I know if it was a good one? Didn't even know that there really are marriage Counsellors, I thought this was something in holliwood movies...still don't know where I would find one, but got some good info off another post. Wrote my evil selfish concoction of a "story" as I began to think about my situation, first time I ever sat down and tried to write it down. You are right, it is an evil story of betrayal...I'm all too acutely aware of that. One sided, absolutely, I was pouring my heart out, I had to start somewhere, surely what I think, feel, believe, know is a place to start. Evil scheming person that I am, decided to see if any good advice could come from this. My reason? Sheer desperation because I don't want to destroy my marriage, and I seem to be doing everything possible to stuff it up. The result of reading this forum, about 80 % crap, especially all the stuff about it being OK to cheat...my heart and conscience tells me that it isnt', that is why I came here (search key on google was something like "overcoming fatal attraction") "19% worth considering, 1% absolute GEM!!! 

The GEM showed me some compassion and understanding, and I cried in shame for the mess I have created. She told me where I could get free marriage Counselling and encouraged me to seek it.

Does my wife have her reasons? Undoubtedly!!!! I just wish she would tallk about them with me instead of shutting me out. My fault I guess, but to solve a problem you have to acknowledge it first. If she is on this board saying how bad I am, she is probably 100% right...I just hope she finds the part about marriage Counselling being available and wants to try it.

So, I can't speak for all the other misguided people, but for me, coming to this board was the result of ignorance, desperation, hoping that somebody could help me to avoid destroying my life.

You prove one point though, there is some real toxic and judgmental stuff on this board. Forgive me for being so blunt.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

There are many thoughtful, compassionate people here. Please keep posting. This is a great place to vent, and the price is right!

You will get varied opinions on your situation. Take the ones that are useful and discard the rest. Some posters' comments are colored by their bitterness; some do not have any empathy for others. I have found it to be an invaluable resource for relationship advice.


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello again! 
For right now we are talking about the ''maybe'' consequence of telling her what you want to tell her. What would be a positive possibility that can happen other than the divorce? Did you even think that maybe she would understand your feeling? I'm sure that a positive visualization of you telling what you want will push you more than a negative visualization.
I think then instead of seeing what may happen, action should be taken. I don't think so it's selfish of you to be happy. Only one live, you better be happy 
After your parent's divorce, you said that you felt hurt. Do you still feel hurt, or you understand now that your parents are happier without each other? Do you think your kid can do that too? I'm saying this because I'm from divorce parent, and I went thought this way too. Very hard at the start, too young to understand their choice. But now, I completely understand I and see my parents both happy, both in love now.
What do you want your child to see love? Two people just being friends without more than that or the true love, the love you can see in each other's eyes?
Again, it's not selfish to be happy.
So, you want to tell her what you think let's go for it! You have fears; everybody has fears. What would be some ways to control them? What would be the benefits of having a control on them? What would be the benefits of talking the truth?
Ask her when would be a good time for her to talk, just let it go then


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Introubledeep said:


> Yes, I fear divorce. My parents divorced when I was 18 and I remember the pain it caused me, and I don't want my child to go through that. That is probably the main thing holding me back. I simply don't think I have the right to inflict that on my child in order to pursue my own selfish "happiness". I take my responsibility to provide for my childs needs very seriously, children need a steady stable and loving home, ideally with both parents.


But right now, despite having both parents, your child *doesn't* have a "steady, stable and loving home." It's a home where, quite obviously, as demonstrated at least by the sleeping arrangements, mom and dad have some distance between them. And don't discount a child's ability to tell something is out I'd sync in your relationship. Our son has behavior issues anyway, but when my wife and I were having problems, although we thought we were getting along well in his presence, his behavior problems intensified. Once we began working together on our marriage, they improved.

So, while I admire your dedication to your child, you're not benefitting him/her by staying together in this situation. By example, you are providing a poor example of what a healthy, thriving relationship is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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