# What the hell should I do?



## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

So, we are back at it again. I made a similar post a few months ago but I did not get any good advice.

I will try to make this as short and informative as possible.

The bf and I met 4.5 years ago online. I was 19 and he was 36. I was very apprehensive to date a guy that was much older than me but I gave him a chance anyway. 

He swept me off my feet at first, he was very sweet, he was saying all the right things without being told. It was literally magical. After our first date, we were inseparable. Our first date lasted over 8 hours and we had another date the next night, and so on and so forth.

Within 3 months, he told me he loved me. I thought that I had finally found the guy I had been waiting for in my short 19-20 years. He has a masters in education, another degree in English, he is a welder, a mechanic, and he has a lot of knowledge of a lot of things. He has taught me a lot and I have grown tremendously emotionally and mentally. 

I do suffer from general anxiety disorder which has a huge impact on our relationship. He can't handle the fact that I have a fight or flight response and "over react" to a lot of things that he doesn't consider important. I have only in the past year really come to understand my diagnoses and have started to see a counselor, changed medication and been able to hone in on some of my abilities to let certain things go. 

Most of the time everything is fine between us but we have about 10% of the time where we have at least one issue going on. Most of them are reoccurring issues. 

He has cheated, he has lied about said cheating, he has been manipulative, uncaring; you know, most of the typical behaviors people start exhibiting after they get comfortable. I am very vocal about my wants, needs, and expectations. If something is pissing me off, I will let you know and I will make it very clear of what not to do the next time. 

He seems to have a short bandwidth for relationships, which he did not really start letting me know until about 2 years ago. He can be really sweet, caring, loving, affectionate, etc for as little as a few hours to a few days and then he goes back to being an insensitive ******* who seems to forget that he's in a relationship with someone who has sacrificed a lot for him. He is always talking about needing "alone time" to unwind. As in, away from work or projects, and me. He ****s up and I make my complaint, sometimes he listens and sometimes he does not. When he does, he usually makes it better, he might not apologize but I eventually get over it. Then other times, like the last two nights. He denies things that he says and does not "remember" what he said. I totally get blocking out certain things, but when your partner tells you that you are pissing them off about something, aren't you supposed to give a **** about their needs and forget about what is annoying you? 

Marriage is another hot topic that usually ends up in an argument. The argument part is usually on his end. He has been married twice and I have not, obviously. I was looking for something serious and thought I found it, after he asked me to move in with him I thought he wanted to move the relationship along. After 2 years of dating and living together, I started to get antsy and excited that it might happen. His father passed away late 2013 and right after that, he told me that he wanted to be engaged by the end of 2014. I patiently waited the entire year, right around Christmas, I realized that not much had changed since his claim of wanting to get married was becoming another LIE. I confronted him about it and got the same bull **** excuses to why we aren't getting engaged...AGAIN. 

What the hell is this? Who does this to someone? I don't want to hear any complaining about why I stayed with him, I need ADVICE from someone who has been in this situation, whether you were the ******* or the one getting hurt. If you are a counselor or psychologist, your advice would be much appreciated. What did you do? What can I do? I am so pissed off! I want to leave every time now that he says he wants to break up, such as he did last night. I am sick to death of having the same bull **** conversations. People have real problems and we are sitting over here arguing about marriage possibility and his ****ty attitude.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
It doesn't sound like he makes you happy, so why do you want to stay with or marry him? His personality is what it is, don't expect it to ever change. 

There are also a few things that trigger my "spidy sense" that he may be a potential abuser. Nothing solid, but it makes me a bit uncomfortable. 

I know you didn't want people to tell you to leave, but why not? This doesn't seem a good relationship for you


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> It doesn't sound like he makes you happy, so why do you want to stay with or marry him? His personality is what it is, don't expect it to ever change.
> 
> There are also a few things that trigger my "spidy sense" that he may be a potential abuser. Nothing solid, but it makes me a bit uncomfortable.
> ...


He does make me happy. 90% of the time, things are great. The 10% is what we cannot seem to get through. I never expect us to be at 100%, I just want to understand what the hell is wrong with him. Why is he back and forth like this all the time? 

Abusive as in emotional? I would consider him to be manipulative, certainly. But he's alpha and I am also alpha so I give him a run for his money.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You received plenty of good advice last time, it just was not what you wanted to hear.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> You received plenty of good advice last time, it just was not what you wanted to hear.


Simply telling someone to leave who is obviously not ready to do so is not "good advice". Have you tried that with a depressed person to be happy? What happens? Oh, that's right, nothing.

So, like I was saying, if you don't have anything USEFUL to say, please shut up.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

This is a no brainer.
He likes you and wants you, but he does not want the commitment that comes WITH you.
On top of this, he can't even remain faithful while you are dating. 
If you marry this guy, you're going to be in a world of hurt.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Ok, he is who he is. You are who you are. You have two options, leave, or live with it.

He isn't changing.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

UMP said:


> This is a no brainer.
> He likes you and wants you, but he does not want the commitment that comes WITH you.
> On top of this, he can't even remain faithful while you are dating.
> If you marry this guy, you're going to be in a world of hurt.


I wish it was a no brainer. I wouldn't be asking for more advice if it was that easy for me to throw away more than 4 years of hard work. 

What do you mean by your second statement? I can certainly say he has some amount of commitment phobia, even though he denies that he does.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> Simply telling someone to leave who is obviously not ready to do so is not "good advice". Have you tried that with a depressed person to be happy? What happens? Oh, that's right, nothing.



You don't tell the person with depression to "be happy" you tell them to get therapy and see a Dr. for anti-depressants. We can't force them to do that, but that is how depression is treated. I know, I have suffered from depression.

You are in a relationship where you are being cheated on and mistreated. You are not ready to leave, what do you think someone here should advise you to do? Stay in an toxic relationship? Stay with someone who is cheating on you and unwilling to meet your needs? We can't change him and neither can you. 

If you are not ready to leave, don't. It is hard to leave a relationship, I know I divorced my now Ex husband after 20 years of marriage. For me cheating is a dealbreaker. No one has told you it would be easy, it isn't, sometimes there is no other answer.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> You don't tell the person with depression to "be happy" you tell them to get therapy and see a Dr. for anti-depressants. We can't force them to do that, but that is how depression is treated. I know, I have suffered from depression.
> 
> You are in a relationship where you are being cheated on and mistreated. You are not ready to leave, what do you think someone here should advise you to do? Stay in an toxic relationship? Stay with someone who is cheating on you and unwilling to meet your needs? We can't change him and neither can you.
> 
> If you are not ready to leave, don't. It is hard to leave a relationship, I know I divorced my now Ex husband after 20 years of marriage. For me cheating is a dealbreaker. No one has told you it would be easy, it isn't, sometimes there is no other answer.


Great, now we are getting somewhere. 

So how did you start the process of getting emotionally and mentally ready to leave? How long did it take? Did friends help you? Anything you can tell me would be helpful to help me make this decision.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

Tasorundo said:


> Ok, he is who he is. You are who you are. You have two options, leave, or live with it.
> 
> He isn't changing.


Elaborate, please. Short answers are not going to help me see this from other perspectives. Don't you think that I have had the same thing said to me by a friend or my counselor? I need something deeper than just a surface statement. 

I am extremely analytical and detail oriented. I need details before I make a decision, especially a big one like this.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> I wish it was a no brainer. I wouldn't be asking for more advice if it was that easy for me to throw away more than 4 years of hard work.
> 
> What do you mean by your second statement? I can certainly say he has some amount of commitment phobia, even though he denies that he does.


4 years is nothing. Try getting married, having kids, home, mortgage, and then realize you made a mistake. The writing is on the wall. Move on. He's had his chance.

Meaning you'll be x-wife #3.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

If you had a friend that was standing in a hole with a shovel and they wanted to get out. Would you tell them to keep digging or to climb out of the hole. No amount of standing or digging in a hole will make it not a hole. They will only get deeper and deeper in the hole. Eventually they might hit water, then they will drown as they keep digging.

I did not give a long answer, because there is no long answer that changes the situation from what it is. You need to decide if this is how you want to live your life, or if you want to change it. Nothing you can do will change him.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi @xxrockmexx92, 

You are in a relationship with a narcissist. Narcissists do not change. Narcissism is not a bad habit that can be changed it is a state of being. End it and move on. That is your answer and your solution. 

Why he is a narcissist and what it is like to be in a marriage to one is a different problem. Perhaps @EleGirl, @brooklynAnn or @RoseAglow can suggest specific threads for you to read. 

He is a 32 old man with you because he views you as moldable. He will use many of the good habits it takes to be in a healthy relationship and use them against you. Being alpha is not the same as being a narcissist. Thimk of narcissism as being mid to high on the scaie of BPD. This link below is to a thread of the male version of you. I used the @username for the women I mentioned since they might offer you insight from the female perceptive, by the way I have noticed Kristin has posted here, listen to her. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-divorce-pending-please-help.html#post5650737


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

UMP said:


> 4 years is nothing. Try getting married, having kids, home, mortgage, and then realize you made a mistake. The writing is on the wall. Move on. He's had his chance.
> 
> Meaning you'll be x-wife #3.


THIS!

Don't go down the same road a lot of us did (me). I married someone I shouldn't have and I'm now paying the costs and so are my kids.

Ditch this guy and find someone new. He's 17 years older than you! You'll be 43 and he'll be 60. Fawk that!


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

If not already, this is how future arguments will occur 

Davo

What is DARVO?

Jennifer J. Freyd, University of Oregon

Short Definition

DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility or even blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation.


Disclaimers

DARVO as a concept is based on observation and analysis. The author has not yet published systematic empirical research testing the coherence or frequency of DARVO. However, the first empirical research specifically testing the concept of DARVO is completed and the manuscript report is in preparation (Harsey, Zurbriggen, & Freyd, in prep).
Other observers have likely noted the same phenomena and related phenomena using different terms; the author has been informed that some people have found the term DARVO a helpful mnemonic and organizing concept.
Also the presense of DARVO is not necessarily evidence in support of the accusation of guilt; a truly innocent person may deny an accusation, attack the person making the accusation, or claim the victim role. Future research may be able to determine the probability of a DARVO response as a function of guilt or innocence. The author hypothesized that some sorts of denials and reactions such as DARVO are more likely when the perpetrator is guilty than innocent (Freyd, 1997); however this hypothesis has not yet been tested. Furthermore, even if research indicates that a DARVO reaction is more likely when there is actual guilt, it would be an error to use a DARVO reaction as proof of guilt.
For now the concept of DARVO is offered as potentially memorable and useful term for anticipating the behavior of perpetrators when held accountable, and for making sense of responses that may otherwise be confusing (particularly when victim and offender get reversed).*
History of Terminology & Writings about DARVO

Jennifer Freyd introduced the term "DARVO" near the end of a 1997 publication about her primary research focus, "betrayal trauma theory." (For more on betrayal trauma theory, see Definition of Betrayal Trauma Theory.)

The reference for the 1997 article introducing the term is:

Freyd, J.J. (1997) Violations of power, adaptive blindness, and betrayal trauma theory. Feminism & Psychology, 7, 22-32.

In that paper Freyd explained that DARVO responses may be effective for perpetrators. "...I have observed that actual abusers threaten, bully and make a nightmare for anyone who holds them accountable or asks them to change their abusive behavior. This attack, intended to chill and terrify, typically includes threats of law suits, overt and covert attacks on the whistle-blower's credicility, and so on..... [T]he offender rapidly creates the impression that the abuser is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is the offender. Figure and ground are completely reversed... The offender is on the offense and the person attempting to hold the offender accountable is put on the defense." (Freyd, 1997, p 29-30)

"By denying, attacking and reversing perpetrators into victims, reality gets even more confusing and unspeakable for the real victim. .... These perpetrator reactions increase the need for betrayal blindness. If the victim does speak out and gets this level of attack, she quickly gets the idea that silence is safer." (Veldhuis & Freyd, 1999. p 274).

It didn't happen (an instance) or It rarely happens (a type of event)
It wasn't harmful
Put together they can take the form: "It didn't happen, but if it did, it wasn't that bad" or "It rarely happens, but when it does it isn't harmful." The two claims both serve to deny, but they depend upon different sorts of evidence. They may both be true, but they are sometimes somewhat suspicious when claimed simultaneously (or by the same person at different times), as for instance can occur in response to allegations of rape or child sexual abuse.

Here is the link*What is DARVO?
Hat tiki to @marduk*


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

As someone much older than you, I look back to when I was your age and have major regrets concerning relationships and decisions that I did not make at the time. Regret is a hard thing to life with.

Picture yourself at 40 yo in a loveless, sexless relationship with your BF/husband cheating on you with 23 year olds. You stay because you already put in 21 years of hard work. But you regret every day that you did not make that decision to leave 17 years ago when you had ONLY 4 years of "hard work" in.

Use the strength and wisdom of your future self. Make the decision now that you know you must make. Otherwise, you will be unhappy for many many years. You can make a change now to set your life down a path of great happiness. When you are my age, then you can struggle over 20-30 years of "hard work". 4 years? 4 years is a a lot when you are 23. When you are 40-50, 4 years is nothing. 

If you want some more on this topic, search TAM for "regret" or "regrets" and read all the sad stories from unhappy people who regret making that important life changing decision when they were younger. 

Good luck young lady. And whatever you do, do not get pregnant from this BF.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

GuyInColorado said:


> THIS!
> 
> Don't go down the same road a lot of us did (me). I married someone I shouldn't have and I'm now paying the costs and so are my kids.
> 
> Ditch this guy and find someone new. He's 17 years older than you! You'll be 43 and he'll be 60. Fawk that!


Unfortunately, some people need to fail to realize their mistake.
No one is immune to this.(including me) It's very easy for us to see clearly. For her, she is in a fog. Everyone can tell her to leave, yet she does not want to see it. She wants to hear something that gives her hope to continue.
Basically she is under his spell.

It's like viewing an impending train wreck from way above the earth. We can see the obstacle because of our viewpoint. She, on the other hand is riding ON the train and can't see as far down the track as we do.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> Simply telling someone to leave who is obviously not ready to do so is not "good advice". Have you tried that with a depressed person to be happy? What happens? Oh, that's right, nothing.
> 
> So, like I was saying, if you don't have anything USEFUL to say, please shut up.


What kind of useful advice are you looking for?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> So, we are back at it again. I made a similar post a few months ago but I did not get any good advice.
> 
> I will try to make this as short and informative as possible.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you are over reacting? What does your counselor say? HE might not consider something important. But that does not mean YOU can't consider it important. It is possible that your anxiety and "over reaction" is your hind brain setting limits and defending your self because your front brain is confused.




> Most of the time everything is fine between us but we have about 10% of the time where we have at least one issue going on. Most of them are reoccurring issues.
> 
> He has cheated, he has lied about said cheating, he has been manipulative, uncaring; you know, most of the typical behaviors people start exhibiting after they get comfortable.


There is nothing typical about this. There is nothing "normal" about changing into a douche after getting "comfortable" unless you are an abuser. It is difficult to see how cheating and lying can be good 90% of the time? You must be rug sweeping. You only care about the cheating the 10% of the time you know about it? How do you go about recovering from cheating and lying? Or do you just move along and try to forget about it? That is severely not healthy for YOU. He has cheated, lied, been manipulative without consequence. He will continue to do that FOR THE REST OF THE TIME YOU ALLOW HIM TO. That is what abusers do.




> I am very vocal about my wants, needs, and expectations. If something is pissing me off, I will let you know and I will make it very clear of what not to do the next time.


How is that working? When you vocalize, does he change his behavior? It sure does not sound like it.



> He seems to have a short bandwidth for relationships, which he did not really start letting me know until about 2 years ago. He can be really sweet, caring, loving, affectionate, etc for as little as a few hours to a few days and then he goes back to being an insensitive ******* who seems to forget that he's in a relationship with someone who has sacrificed a lot for him.


So a few days is 90% of the time? And going back to being insensitive is the 10%? I am not seeing how that math works.



> He is always talking about needing "alone time" to unwind. As in, away from work or projects, and me. He ****s up and I make my complaint, sometimes he listens and sometimes he does not. When he does, he usually makes it better, he might not apologize but I *eventually get over it*.


What does your counselor say about this? Does your counselor tell you that he has no intention of ever treating you right? 



> Then other times, like the last two nights. He denies things that he says and does not "remember" what he said. I totally get blocking out certain things, but when your partner tells you that you are pissing them off about something, aren't you supposed to give a **** about their needs and forget about what is annoying you?


Not if you are an abusive *******. Look, you are a child compared to him. He picked you BECAUSE you are a child, easy to manipulate.



> Marriage is another hot topic that usually ends up in an argument. The argument part is usually on his end. He has been married twice and I have not, obviously. I was looking for something serious and thought I found it, after he asked me to move in with him I thought he wanted to move the relationship along. After 2 years of dating and living together, I started to get antsy and excited that it might happen. His father passed away late 2013 and right after that, he told me that he wanted to be engaged by the end of 2014. I patiently waited the entire year, right around Christmas, I realized that not much had changed since his claim of wanting to get married was becoming another LIE. I confronted him about it and got the same bull **** excuses to why we aren't getting engaged...AGAIN.
> 
> What the hell is this? Who does this to someone? I don't want to hear any complaining about why I stayed with him, I need ADVICE from someone who has been in this situation, whether you were the ******* or the one getting hurt. If you are a counselor or psychologist, your advice would be much appreciated. What did you do? What can I do? I am so pissed off! I want to leave every time now that he says he wants to break up, such as he did last night. I am sick to death of having the same bull **** conversations. People have real problems and we are sitting over here arguing about marriage possibility and his ****ty attitude.


Here is one thing you absolutely MUST accept which is likely the crux of your issue. You cannot change him with the same bull **** conversation. You can only change YOU and your actions. That MIGHT change his REaction. But what have your actions said so far? Every time you do wrong by me, I am not going to change my actions. Therefore you don't need to change your REaction.

I had a boyfriend who was no where near as assholish as yours. He could be very, very charming. But he was also incredibly self centered. Everything had to be exactly his way. His version of compromise was to continue to argue until you got tired of it, or got confused by his warped words, and gave in. He would ignore, gaslight, bring up bull****, just to win. I was left with this what the **** just happened feeling in my head. But... he could also be charming. And as a loving person, I thought we should try to make this work.

I did not SEE what he was doing when I was in it. He had reasons, excuses, faux logic and all kinds of magic tricks to pull out of his sleeves to make me THINK he was "right". I finally decided I did not care who was "right". And yes, I left. And over time, clarity starting being available to me again. I started recovering my ME. My strong me. The me that does not have to put up with behavior that violates my ME. I don't mean to be mean. But given that you are so young, you are at a disadvantage. You probably have not yet even developed that strong ME for yourself. That is why he likes you. Without it, he can do whatever he wants. 

So your job? Try to develop your strong me. It is going to be hard, because he is going to continue to behave in ways that confuse the development of your strong me. If you are not ready to leave him, at the very least, continue to see your counselor. Find your me would be way easier if you did though. It is tough because when you are vulnerable, it is hard to tell if your counselor is any good. And not all are! 


If I were you, and I was, I would also start learning about and practicing mindefulness. It helps with clarity AND anxiety.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

UMP said:


> 4 years is nothing. Try getting married, having kids, home, mortgage, and then realize you made a mistake. The writing is on the wall. Move on. He's had his chance.
> 
> Meaning you'll be x-wife #3.


The house part is already a done deal. So where does that put me now?


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

wringo123 said:


> What kind of useful advice are you looking for?


Do you have any personal experience with anything like this? I am looking for advice from people who have actually been through something like this.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

Tasorundo said:


> Ok, he is who he is. You are who you are. You have two options, leave, or live with it.
> 
> He isn't changing.


I have't tried to change anything. What are you talking about?


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

Wow! You are in a world of hurt if you can't change your mentality. You have got to realize that you cannot change this guy. He is set in his ways and has shown that he is not capable of changing. 
I dated a guy my first year in college ( I was 18 and he was 27, I am 28 now) we dated for almost 3 years. Your guy sounds like my ex. He manipulated me, he was emotionally and mentally abusive, and he was a liar. But I was young and I wanted to be with him. He promised me the world! Promised marriage etc... But he wanted all of this to happen on his terms, when he was ready. As you know, women mature much faster than men and know what we want early on and I knew what I wanted. It sounds like you do as well but you're going about it all wrong. You seem dependent on this guy. You scream and shout but he isn't listening. Try something else. If he's playing mind games with you then you need to leave, show him that you don't need him. This worked for me. I left my ex and decided that I'd had enough. He came around but by then i was learning to move on without him and I realized that I was happy on my own and didn't need him. When I left him, I was able to think clearly and I knew he was not what I wanted or needed. Maybe you should take a step back as well and give this more thought. You are young still and you may realize down the road that this was mistake but might be too late for you to fix it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He is a liar and a cheat. 

Not a good combination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> Do you have any personal experience with anything like this? I am looking for advice from people who have actually been through something like this.



Yes I have. Your bf sounds exactly like my first husband. I asked what kind of advice you are looking for because we need to know what your goal is. What do you plan to do with the advice you get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

JohnA said:


> Hi @xxrockmexx92,
> 
> You are in a relationship with a narcissist. Narcissists do not change. Narcissism is not a bad habit that can be changed it is a state of being. End it and move on. That is your answer and your solution.
> 
> ...


Everyone keeps saying "end it" but no one is telling me HOW.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

wringo123 said:


> Yes I have. Your bf sounds exactly like my first husband. I asked what kind of advice you are looking for because we need to know what your goal is. What do you plan to do with the advice you get?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am not sure still. I want advice for both choices, weather I stay or go. This is still very frustrating.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> Everyone keeps saying "end it" but no one is telling me HOW.



Can you leave the house for a few days to get away from him? My now ex is a manipulator. Luckily for me, I had to study abroad, so it was easier to break up. Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

"No Contact" the Right Way and the Wrong Way. Going ?Gray Rock? with a Narcissist | Narcissist Support. Read @sixty-eight thread. Much of what you can expect and how to cope will be covered,


These would be a good start


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Are you sure you are over reacting? What does your counselor say? HE might not consider something important. But that does not mean YOU can't consider it important. It is possible that your anxiety and "over reaction" is your hind brain setting limits and defending your self because your front brain is confused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I am sure I over react sometimes. There are things that he says or does that I freak out over that just who he is but they irritate me. Sometimes I can ignore it and other times the irritation boils to the surface. 

I used to sacrifice a lot of my patience and happiness for him in the beginning because my thought was, when you are in a relationship, there is no space to be selfish. You are sharing your time, emotions, and heart with someone else and you should be selfless. In the past few months, I am realizing more and more that it is ok for me to be selfish and not give a **** about his needs for once. My counselor has been praising my sense of self. She is the one who made me realize that being selfish in a relationship is not entirely bad.

When I mentioned the cheating, I didn't mention how recent it was. There are more details I did not disclose about it so it is obviously not considered to be part of that 90% of the time. 

Being insensitive is part of that 10%. There are certain problems that we have not worked through, the cheating and lying are part of that. 

My counselor has never said anything about his "intentions" because she barely knows him. We have been seeing her together but we have not even been to 10 sessions together yet. She is still getting to know the details. 

He did not "pick" me and I am certainly not a child. He responded to my ad and I chose HIM. He obviously was not completely forthcoming and it is obviously biting him in the ass now. If I was "immature", I wouldn't be here getting advice. I would be defending his ****ty behavior and rolling over like his little dog. 

So at the end of your analysis, how did you leave? What was the last straw? I want to know the who, what, where, when, and why. It doesn't need to be completely detailed but something helpful about what you did would be great.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

Thank you, spinsterdurga. I will try to put something together. I did notice that when I was out of the country for a month, his behavior was different when I came back. Of course, it only lasted a few days. *sigh*.


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## xxrockmexx92 (Nov 1, 2015)

JohnA said:


> "No Contact" the Right Way and the Wrong Way. Going ?Gray Rock? with a Narcissist | Narcissist Support. Read @sixty-eight thread. Much of what you can expect and how to cope will be covered,
> 
> 
> These would be a good start


Thank you very much, JohnA.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> Thank you, spinsterdurga. I will try to put something together. I did notice that when I was out of the country for a month, his behavior was different when I came back. Of course, it only lasted a few days. *sigh*.



You're welcome . My point is that it can help YOU to end the relationship by not being with him for a few days while thinking about his behavior and what YOU want in a partner. That's what helped me end my relationship.

I'm sorry but he won't change, so you need to find a way to let go of the relationship. He's not worthy of you. Someone who loves you doesn't cheat. 


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

You're getting really good advice here. I was in a relationship and the guy was like your BF. Master manipulator. Know the only way I was able to leave him? I went away for awhile and realized that I didn't want to be with him. He was always so good at spinning sh!t and playing mind games (that's what manipulators and cheaters do). From the sounds of it your beau is both of these. You will NEVER be able to think rationally with him around. Take time away from him for a bit and clear your head.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

SoulCrushed16 said:


> You're getting really good advice here. I was in a relationship and the guy was like your BF. Master manipulator. Know the only way I was able to leave him? I went away for awhile and realized that I didn't want to be with him. He was always so good at spinning sh!t and playing mind games (that's what manipulators and cheaters do). From the sounds of it your beau is both of these. You will NEVER be able to think rationally with him around. Take time away from him for a bit and clear your head.



OMG!!! This!!!!!!! It worked for me. 


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

xxrockmexx92 said:


> He has cheated, he has lied about said cheating, he has been manipulative, uncaring; you know, most of the typical behaviors people start exhibiting after they get comfortable.


There is nothing "typical" about the above behaviour - except in the case of an abuser. 




xxrockmexx92 said:


> So, like I was saying, if you don't have anything USEFUL to say, please shut up.


Seriously? That's how you talk to people who are trying to help you? How dare you!



xxrockmexx92 said:


> I wish it was a no brainer.


It is a no brainer. There are so many red flags all over this that they are blinding. I've been there, I know how it is.



xxrockmexx92 said:


> I have't tried to change anything. What are you talking about?


No one said you had tried to change anything, what they said was HE is not going to change. You need to either accept him as he is now, or leave, because he isn't going to change.




xxrockmexx92 said:


> Everyone keeps saying "end it" but no one is telling me HOW.


Um, by leaving?


I've been with an abusive ahole like your bf. I stuck it out for YEARS. He was your classic abuser - I was kept separate from his life (with the exception of his mother and sister), I was never invited to family or work events, we never spent a Christmas or holiday together because that was for "family". I was kept under control with emotional blackmail and "gaslighting" - comments like "You're too sensitive" and "Why are you getting so emotional" were regular occurrences. When I tried to assert myself I would get "You're not as nice as you make out" or "You're a private school girl who thinks she's better than everyone else" threats like "If you talk about that again our relationship is over" or "There are so many women who would love to be here with me tonight, aren't you glad YOU are?". Then there was the outright emotional cruelty, cheating...I could go on and on.

I didn't walk away, I crawled away completely broken and a shell of who I was when I met him. He hounded me for years afterwards, text and voice messages, came in by the truckload when I wouldn't answer his calls. Eventually, my friends husband who is a police officer paid him a visit and told him in no uncertain terms to never contact me again in any way, shape or form.

These relationships are the hardest types to break away from. You need to be prepared to change your number (I have changed mine, and moved house when I got married. I have a new surname - he'll never find me now, even if he wanted to). 

You end it by leaving. Just go. Plenty of other people have done it, you can too.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

frusdil said:


> I've been with an abusive ahole like your bf. I stuck it out for YEARS. He was your classic abuser - I was kept separate from his life (with the exception of his mother and sister), I was never invited to family or work events, we never spent a Christmas or holiday together because that was for "family". I was kept under control with emotional blackmail and "gaslighting" - comments like "You're too sensitive" and "Why are you getting so emotional" were regular occurrences. When I tried to assert myself I would get "You're not as nice as you make out" or "You're a private school girl who thinks she's better than everyone else" threats like "If you talk about that again our relationship is over" or "There are so many women who would love to be here with me tonight, aren't you glad YOU are?". Then there was the outright emotional cruelty, cheating...I could go on and on.
> 
> I didn't walk away, I crawled away completely broken and a shell of who I was when I met him. He hounded me for years afterwards, text and voice messages, came in by the truckload when I wouldn't answer his calls. Eventually, my friends husband who is a police officer paid him a visit and told him in no uncertain terms to never contact me again in any way, shape or form.
> 
> ...


Wow!! This sounds EXACTLY like my Ex! That guy destroyed me with the constant mind games. The emotional and mental abuse crippled me and like you I crawled away. It me so long to get my life back together after that and I finally was getting on with my life he decided to text, call, and email. When I ignored one he would use another. He again would promise me the world, trying to suck me back in. I moved 1.5 hours away to get away from him. He would say things like "I was the best thing that ever happened to you" or "you will come crawling back" and then he would apologize for his outbursts etc... Absolute nightmare! But I was so young that I thought this was normal behavior until I realized otherwise.


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