# Help!



## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

I feel like no-ones going to understand this, but here goes. My Highly Sensitive Husband has been a mess over the Christmas period. We've had 2 weeks of holidays and I can't wait to go back to normal. 

He's been stressing over the weekend about going back to work to the job he often hates, and sometime loves. Because he's an HSP, when he stresses he gets overwhelmed, and his method of doig this is that he starts blaming whoever is closest, usually me. He goes for walks, but that hasn't helped over the weekend, cos he's just gone for a walk and rumunated so stressing himself even more. He just asked me to give him a lift home, cos his leg is hurting. I can see he was completely overwhelmed. He can't walk properly, his eyes are wild, and he's getting angry at everyone. Very much like one of those drunks you pass in the street, but he's not drunk. This is what happens. this has happened each day leading up to Christmas Day, then both days this weekend, readying for work again. 

He got in the car, and started going on about work, all the stories I've heard before, and lots of swearing and carrying on. I tried listening, honestly, I did. I listened for a good 10 minutes, but it just goes round and round in circles. It's all stories from last year that he's told me over and over already. I've learned over the years that he will be angry over the top layer of things, but you need to get under that to find out what's really triggered all this. I tried to cut through and suggested that he's getting upset about going back to work tomorrow. He agreed, then went back to the stories. I was remaining calm at this point, but thinking, that this is worse than its been so far. Then he started complaining that I don't listen blah blah, and I heard myself suggest he stay somewhere else tonight. I just snapped in my mind. I could not think how I would get through another evening of this. He got out of the car and walked home. This evening has been the worst. 

Once he gets to this point - no logic can reach him. I don't know what to do. This evening's been hell, with him talking incoherantly, accusing me of all sorts of imagined slights. Apparently I threw the cutlery at him , I can't cook( he was trying a new recipe, although couldn't stand properly. Fell and put a hole in the wall). He kept on, he's so much better than me, I hate him, all this stuff. Shouted. My D22 is upstairs. I'm trying to stay calm, and he thinks I'm being holier than thou. I ended up wlking into the spare room, and sitting and breathing (Elegirl - I had already tried the STOP thing, but wasn't going to go out while D22 is there). He came in and sat down and just suggested that I hate him. I told him, no, but I told him I've never seen him so bad. I just told him I think he needs a strait jacket and padded cell tonight. It's not worth all this grief, whatever he's stressing about. He's gone to bed, thank god.

This has to stop. I can't take much more. We're in our 50's, married 7.5 yrs, both work, second marriages for both. He is HSP, highly sensitive personality, but has never quite figured how to manage it yet.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Has he tried meditation?

I saw he had a cold recently. Does he take zinc? I started taking it 20 years ago when diagnosed with a zinc deficiency, have not had a cold since (though I still sometimes get throat infections).


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> Once he gets to this point - no logic can reach him. I don't know what to do. This evening's been hell, with him talking incoherantly, accusing me of all sorts of imagined slights. Apparently I threw the cutlery at him , I can't cook( he was trying a new recipe, although couldn't stand properly. Fell and put a hole in the wall). .


And he was not drinking or doing any drugs? Is not being able to stand and falling over, the incoherency, typical of HSP?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

What YOU can do is recognize the signs early and find a "pattern interrupt." 

You can't make him less sensitive, but you can recognize those signs (sounds like you're on top of that already!) and then interrupt the process. 

Right now, he defaults to thinking you "hate" him when he's stressed out. I wonder what would happen if you stopped listening instead of letting him vent. As someone who goes for a walk and ends up ruminating, maybe venting only strengthens how he feels. His recovery is likely more tied to something distracting him from those thoughts - when he gets busy with other stuff, he feels better and worries less. 

So... maybe instead of listening, you can interrupt the pattern by starting a project at home (will need to be more demanding than a new recipe, but same idea.) If he's having trouble walking, then a project like sorting family photos, tackling upcoming taxes, or having him give opinions while you sort through your clothes closet might be the ticket to getting his mind on to other things AND letting him know he's important to you.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And he was not drinking or doing any drugs? Is not being able to stand and falling over, the incoherency, typical of HSP?


Nope - stone cold sober. In fact, if he has a drink he improves in these situations, he calms down a bit, but its a slippery slope isn't it?

I don't personally know any other HSPs. His standing problem comes from his leg, an old injury that flares up when he's overwhelmed. It's fine the rest of the time.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks for your insights Kathy. I think part of the problem is that we had a couple of days of holidays before Christmas and after our road trip. Gives him time to ruminate. Most of our holidays in the past have been to UK to see his kids and we get back and immediately go into work. So while I thought having a few days each side, would be good for a more relaxed time, it seems to have caused the opposite.

One thing I've noticed is that once he starts going, he seems unaware that he's going. I've tried pointing it out. Yesterday morning (its the next day now, and he's back to normal), he looked tired when we were doing the weekly shop. I suggested he go home and lie down. He said he would. Having a sleep is usually the best method for him to feel better. Then before I'd left the supermarket, he called and said he had lunch ready, why wasn't I home already? He was already getting wound up. 

Pattern interrupt is a thing to think over. 

I'm also hopeful that now we're back to work, the usual routine will bring comfort for him, even though he's been dreading going back to work.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Has he been to see a psychiatrist? Perhaps some anti-anxiety medications and serious therapy might help him.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

tryingtobebetter said:


> Has he tried meditation?
> 
> I saw he had a cold recently. Does he take zinc? I started taking it 20 years ago when diagnosed with a zinc deficiency, have not had a cold since (though I still sometimes get throat infections).


Meditation is something I've attempted to show him, having done it myself for years. He is resistant, and gets annoyed if I suggest it.

Thanks for noticing the cold also, no haven't tried zinc. He suffers badly form hayfever, and if he forgets his meds for a couple of days it seems to become a cold. This is what happened. It cleared up after a couple of days of me reminding him to take the meds.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

norajane said:


> Has he been to see a psychiatrist? Perhaps some anti-anxiety medications and serious therapy might help him.


He saw multiple psychiatrists when he had a breakdown after his first marriage broke down. Clearly never found one that helped. He doesn't like to take drugs either. It's not anxiety per se, its due to him being HSP I think.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thank you for the comments and suggestions all.

I've been reading many posts trying to find one that is similar to mine. My H is fine in the morning, would you believe, he's lovely. Brings me tea in bed, is sweet and organised. 

However these days, he's gone off and ruminated and become overwhelmed. Here are my thoughts, I'd appreciate your input. 

I'm going to find a psychologist with experience with HSPs. Talk to this person to try to understand more about this.

I'm thinking, like an alcoholic, he's not taking responsibility and I am enabling it. Maybe I should ask him to take responsibility and let him know how badly this affects me? He knows, but I haven't spoken too much about it, when he's not overwhelmed, mainly cos I don't want him overwhelmed again. But strikes me that it might be enabling behaviour on my part. I'd appreciate all your input on that.

I asked him this morning, how is he? he said, "Fine, why?" I explained that he was pretty bad last night. To which he said, yes, but I'm ok now. It has always taken me a few days to recover from the stress, anger and hurt I feel in these episodes. I know its, *not his fault*, but surely he can take SOME responsibility for the behaviour. 

to be fair, he had improved over the last few months, but regressed completely over the Christmas break. I'm glad to be back at work!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> I'm thinking, like an alcoholic, he's not taking responsibility and I am enabling it. *Maybe I should ask him to take responsibility* and let him know how badly this affects me? He knows, but I haven't spoken too much about it, when he's not overwhelmed, mainly cos I don't want him overwhelmed again. But strikes me that it might be enabling behaviour on my part. I'd appreciate all your input on that.
> 
> ... surely he can take SOME responsibility for the behaviour.


Unfortunately, he does not have to take responsibility for his behavior. Not one single bit. Sure, you can ask him to take responsibility, but you hold no power over whether or not he choses to do so.

It is affecting you badly. Thus, that is YOUR problem to own. You have to work on deciding what behaviors you find acceptable and unacceptable. Set boundaries, then enforce them.

I was married to an alcoholic for years. I got involved in his addiction, telling him how much his drinking affected me, our marriage, and our finances.

He didn't care to acknowledge any of it because it would have meant he had to let go of denial. And denial is a merciless master over an addict. It is the shield that protects them from taking an honest look at themselves and admitting they have a problem

Your husband's problem is his anxiety, stinkin' thinkin', and how it is having a negative impact on his marriage. 

But you have to own your own problems in this situation. If he doesn't want to see the light, that is his choice.

You have to decide whether or not telling him how much he hurts you is working. It doesn't sound like he's owning his behavior at this point. It also doesn't sound like he wants to get medication(s) that could help. HIS problem; not yours. 

And, yes, it IS enabling when you try to get him to see the light and own up to what he is doing.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> I feel like no-ones going to understand this, but here goes. My Highly Sensitive Husband has been a mess over the Christmas period. We've had 2 weeks of holidays and I can't wait to go back to normal.
> 
> He's been stressing over the weekend about going back to work to the job he often hates, and sometime loves. Because he's an HSP, when he stresses he gets overwhelmed, and his method of doig this is that he starts blaming whoever is closest, usually me. He goes for walks, but that hasn't helped over the weekend, cos he's just gone for a walk and rumunated so stressing himself even more. He just asked me to give him a lift home, cos his leg is hurting. I can see he was completely overwhelmed. He can't walk properly, his eyes are wild, and he's getting angry at everyone. Very much like one of those drunks you pass in the street, but he's not drunk. This is what happens. this has happened each day leading up to Christmas Day, then both days this weekend, readying for work again.
> 
> ...


Would it not matter what job it is? Would he still get this way? I do not know a lot about HSP. Does he see a therapist? Someone else asked this but would meditation help? Has he tried using mindfulness? Of course, this is all dependent on him. I'm sorry this is so hard for your family. Is there any place you can go for support?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

This sounds nothing like what I know HSP behavior to be like.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Thank you for the comments and suggestions all.
> 
> I've been reading many posts trying to find one that is similar to mine. My H is fine in the morning, would you believe, he's lovely. Brings me tea in bed, is sweet and organised.
> 
> ...



You're right. He is definitely responsible for his treatment. He is not responsible for the illness but whatever he needs to do to get help he should do. It would hopefully make him feel better as well as those in his family. Unfortunately, it can be hard to find a mental health professional who understands some of these illnesses. It's too bad he is not interested in meditation. It would probably help him a lot. But it is definitely not fair to you if he is not going to try to get the help he needs. You need support too.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

vms said:


> This sounds nothing like what I know HSP behavior to be like.


@VMS - What's your understanding of HSP? My H definitely passes the test for it. But he's also had the typical male alpha life to live for 50 years, where being HSP is frowned upon, so he has learned to cover up a lot with shields, anger and blame.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Deep Down said:


> He saw multiple psychiatrists when he had a breakdown after his first marriage broke down. Clearly never found one that helped. He doesn't like to take drugs either. It's not anxiety per se, its due to him being HSP I think.


What is HSP? Is this some official diagnosis from his former psychiatrists? What can be done about it? And why won't your H do anything about it?

It's awfully convenient for him that you accept that he has mysterious issues that are making your life and your relationship miserable and untenable, while he chooses to do absolutely nothing about his issues and expects you to accommodate him.

Lay it out for him - start seeing a psychiatrist and taking medications, or prepare for the end of our marriage because I cannot live this way, nor do I want to.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

@PoohBear - Yep - every job he's had he has gotten stressed about. He's intensely conscientious, and a perfectionist, so you can imagine... This one is the worst cos he's stayed there, they have a horrible blame culture and its quite nasty. Whenever he's taken holidays, he's come back to being blamed for something or other. 

It's not an illness, it's more of a personality trait. But the stress cycle he gets into triggers the worst aspects. Meditation would help, but I've been quite heavy-handed on that topic before, so its an instant red-flag to him now.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4810794


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Yep as a brief introduction the huffpost piece is great. There can be huge problems for HSP people though who have gone through life in a culture that doesn't appreciate them and keeps expecting them (particularly men) to toughen up. 

I've spoke to a therapist now, who gets it! She's an HSP herself and specialises in dealing with HSP issues. 

I'm feeling much better. She has told me that what I need to do is do what I need to do to reduce my "stress bucket" and then let him know I've spoken to her so he can be introduced to her. She reckons she can manage his natural resistance.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> @PoohBear - Yep - every job he's had he has gotten stressed about. He's intensely conscientious, and a perfectionist, so you can imagine... This one is the worst cos he's stayed there, they have a horrible blame culture and its quite nasty. Whenever he's taken holidays, he's come back to being blamed for something or other.
> 
> It's not an illness, it's more of a personality trait. But the stress cycle he gets into triggers the worst aspects. Meditation would help, but I've been quite heavy-handed on that topic before, so its an instant red-flag to him now.


Has he talked about changing jobs? It sounds like a really bad environment on top of his own issues. He needs to do something to calm himself and seek some sort of help. Maybe a therapist would be better than a psychiatrist. In my experience many psychiatrists just want to work with meds. What does he say he is going to do to improve things? It is not fair for you or your children to have to live with this on a regular basis. If not meditation, what? It can't be comfortable for him either. I would ask him to start figuring it out because it's not fair.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Yep as a brief introduction the huffpost piece is great. There can be huge problems for HSP people though who have gone through life in a culture that doesn't appreciate them and keeps expecting them (particularly men) to toughen up.
> 
> I've spoke to a therapist now, who gets it! She's an HSP herself and specialises in dealing with HSP issues.
> 
> I'm feeling much better. She has told me that what I need to do is do what I need to do to reduce my "stress bucket" and then let him know I've spoken to her so he can be introduced to her. She reckons she can manage his natural resistance.


That's awesome.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> Has he talked about changing jobs? It sounds like a really bad environment on top of his own issues. He needs to do something to calm himself and seek some sort of help. Maybe a therapist would be better than a psychiatrist. In my experience many psychiatrists just want to work with meds. What does he say he is going to do to improve things? It is not fair for you or your children to have to live with this on a regular basis. If not meditation, what? It can't be comfortable for him either. I would ask him to start figuring it out because it's not fair.


Thanks Pooh Bear, yes he' determined to change jobs this year. He makes it hard for himself, cos he sets his requirements too high. Wants $x more than he's earning etc. He just needs to get out of there!

I think he feels unable to do anything to improve matters. He HAD been improving his behaviour, but not the stress itself.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> That's awesome.


Damn right it is! 

Without getting over ambitious, this therapist covers HSP career counselling as well as the other HSP stuff. She described my H's behaviour as pretty standard for HSP men of his age. Because of the expectations put on men of our age (50's), they were expected to manage everything and never complain. Stiff upper lip and all that. It builds up huge amounts of unmanaged grief, anger, pain etc, that they cover up over the years. It all comes screaming out when they're overwhelmed. When his first marriage finished and he had his nervous breakdown, nothing got dealt with. He refused the meds, lied to the psychs, and got a manual job that had lots of hours.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Deep Down said:


> I asked him this morning, how is he? he said, "Fine, why?" I explained that he was pretty bad last night. To which he said, yes, but I'm ok now. It has always taken me a few days to recover from the stress, anger and hurt I feel in these episodes. I know its, *not his fault*, but surely he can take SOME responsibility for the behaviour.


This is the way you'll have to phrase this. I love you, but your episodes are increasing and they affect me very badly. If you were getting help for it, I would be beside you all the way; but you're not. I've found a therapist who specializes in what you're going through and I've set up an appointment for us to go, tomorrow. I know you love me, so I'm counting on you to do this for me, with me.'


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Damn right it is!
> 
> Without getting over ambitious, this therapist covers HSP career counselling as well as the other HSP stuff. She described my H's behaviour as pretty standard for HSP men of his age. Because of the expectations put on men of our age (50's), they were expected to manage everything and never complain. Stiff upper lip and all that. It builds up huge amounts of unmanaged grief, anger, pain etc, that they cover up over the years. It all comes screaming out when they're overwhelmed. When his first marriage finished and he had his nervous breakdown, nothing got dealt with. He refused the meds, lied to the psychs, and got a manual job that had lots of hours.


I can see how, at his age, being HSP could create those kinds of issues.

I hope he will be receptive to the counseling.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Yes, me too. after the euphoria of finding this therapist, I've come crashing down physically, and have come home from work sick. I think its just all the stress that I was holding. Any action may get postponed until the weekend now.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> This is the way you'll have to phrase this. I love you, but your episodes are increasing and they affect me very badly. If you were getting help for it, I would be beside you all the way; but you're not. I've found a therapist who specializes in what you're going through and I've set up an appointment for us to go, tomorrow. I know you love me, so I'm counting on you to do this for me, with me.'


Thanks turnera, 
This is my next task, how to word it. I told him on Sunday that this was killing me. He had shouted back, that I had no idea how he felt, that it was killing him too. He said that he hurts so badly, he'd do anything to stop it. So I'll be using that as well. And the therapist is pushing to meet him next, no pu$$yfooting around.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi Deep Down,

I have two close friends who are HSP, but they are females. For both of them, they shut down when they get overwhelmed. It is like PTSD for them. They have both had to do a lot of cognitive therapy to be functional. They were both very motivated because it was keeping them from the life they wanted. 

Very interesting to see how it can show up in men!

The main thing I get from your posts is that it will be helpful for your husband to see how his HSP is affecting you. It is a fine line to walk- managing to show that the behavior is problematic, without adding to the stimuli that is already overwhelming him. 

I hope your therapist will be helpful! It sure sounds like a very promising start!!


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

RoseAglow, I'm so glad to hear from someone who knows HSP. 

Your friends shut down? My husband gets very painful and tired, so like shutting down, but then he fights it and everything else when he feels that way! He's a stubborn thing!

Yes, I don't want to unnecessarily overwhelm him again, he will be very stressed to discuss a therapist, I know. I know I'm not up to it at the moment.

Thanks for sharing your insight!


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> RoseAglow, I'm so glad to hear from someone who knows HSP.
> 
> Your friends shut down? My husband gets very painful and tired, so like shutting down, but then he fights it and everything else when he feels that way! He's a stubborn thing!
> 
> ...


Please update us after you have both seen the therapist Deep Down. I will be interested to hear how you are both doing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RoseAglow said:


> They have both had to do a lot of cognitive therapy to be functional.


Make sure you ask the therapist if they do CBT, which is probably what it will take to change him.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Deep Down said:


> RoseAglow, I'm so glad to hear from someone who knows HSP.
> 
> Your friends shut down? My husband gets very painful and tired, so like shutting down, but then he fights it and everything else when he feels that way! He's a stubborn thing!
> 
> ...


My friends both have a very high degree of anxiety. One of them really does have PTSD from two separate, truly devastating events in her late childhood- she has been treated and does a ton of yoga, meditation, therapy. She is a very successful social worker (now building city-wide government programs( and has spent her life helping out people. She is an amazing person. 

My other HSP friend is also awesome- she is very caring, sweet, creative. She is less functional though due to anxiety and HSP. She is only able to handle part time, low stress jobs.

In both cases, when they shut down, they retreat. They just go quiet/silent and freeze, and once the attention is elsewhere they will silently and very quickly escape. They don't fight at all.

From what they've told me, being HSP is like walking around with all senses amplified up several notches. Neither of my friends can handle much medication- they will likely experience the rare side effects. They do not like really loud places, like a concert. Neither drink alcohol, preferring soothing teas. I can't call them "low key" but they much prefer quiet, organized spaces.

Another striking characteristic of both of them is that it takes a long time for them to really process important events, or strong emotion. This is part of the 'shut-down', I think. I can envision your husband getting really overwhelmed at the negative stuff going on at work.

HSPs tend to be keenly attuned to the feelings of other people. It really hurts them when others are feeling hurt. If he can come to understand how his actions affect you, hopefully he will be highly motivated as a HSP to improve.

My HSP friends are intense. They experience things intensely and can be very stressful to be around at times. I tend to be more wound up and there are times when we all need to take a few deep breaths. Mostly though they are empathetic and I've found them to be quite lovely. They keep a small circle of friends and are intensely loyal to them. To be honest, both are in my smallest circle of friends who I consider family. Of all my close friends, I've had the most conflict with these two, but it is more than worth it to work it out IME.

It took both my friends time and work to get into a space of comfort; I'd say they both really came into their own in their 40s. Hopefully your husband can also find a space of comfort and function, too. He is lucky to have you on his side, supporting him and cheering him on! Just be sure to take care of yourself, too. It doesn't help him for you to harm yourself, trying to push down your needs for his "sake". He will be much better off realizing that it will be better for both of you if he seeks and applies treatment.

ETA: I posted both that my HSP friends don't fight and tend to escape, and yet of all my friends, these are the two with whom I've had the most conflict. We haven't really fought but both have called me out on disappearing at times. In some cases it's been to take a step down/break, but mostly it's just been I've been inner-focused and out of touch. We haven't had bad conflict- they both just tend to have a very small circle and work hard to keep in touch. Whereas most of my other friends were fine with a month or so of quiet from my end, both of my HSPs were asking What's Up?? It's one of the things I actually really like about them. Just wanted to clarify two seemingly opposite items.


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm an HSP.. funny though, a lot of the descriptions about HSPs, I don't really identify with (like all my sense are not always on overdrive.. although, maybe I'm just used to it, so it doesn't feel like overdrive to me.. but is for another person), but whenever I take the test, I always answer as an HSP. 

We're not all the same -- we all have different points that trigger our stress, and we all handle it in different ways. Your husband needs to learn how to manage it. The first suggestion I had was therapy. There's also a good book about HSPs, called, fittingly, "The Highle Sensitive Person", by Elaine Aron. Maybe if he reads it, it can give him some ideas of how to handle his stress and not pass it on to you. 

Bottom line, he needs to learn how to manage his stress. whether through therapy, or reading books, self-evaluation, or a combination. For the peace of your family, and for his own stress-management, he really needs to work on that.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> My friends both have a very high degree of anxiety. One of them really does have PTSD from two separate, truly devastating events in her late childhood- she has been treated and does a ton of yoga, meditation, therapy. She is a very successful social worker (now building city-wide government programs( and has spent her life helping out people. She is an amazing person.
> 
> My other HSP friend is also awesome- she is very caring, sweet, creative. She is less functional though due to anxiety and HSP. She is only able to handle part time, low stress jobs.
> 
> ...


Thanks RoseAglow - your friends sound great! My H is the sweetest and most loving person, most of the time. He's had a rough life though in many respects, and I think he had never started processing all the events that caused him issues. His family is one of those that think it doesn't work to "dwell on things", so it's never been acceptable to him. He's "high sensations seeking" while an HSP. With HSPs being 15% of the population, there are different types. So I think he's a bit different to your friends in that. His previous career was very stressful and he never had downtime. He loves loud music, as it stops him thinking, and can change his mood a lot, which is OK (when its not eminem).


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

kokonatsu said:


> I'm an HSP.. funny though, a lot of the descriptions about HSPs, I don't really identify with (like all my sense are not always on overdrive.. although, maybe I'm just used to it, so it doesn't feel like overdrive to me.. but is for another person), but whenever I take the test, I always answer as an HSP.
> 
> We're not all the same -- we all have different points that trigger our stress, and we all handle it in different ways. Your husband needs to learn how to manage it. The first suggestion I had was therapy. There's also a good book about HSPs, called, fittingly, "The Highle Sensitive Person", by Elaine Aron. Maybe if he reads it, it can give him some ideas of how to handle his stress and not pass it on to you.
> 
> Bottom line, he needs to learn how to manage his stress. whether through therapy, or reading books, self-evaluation, or a combination. For the peace of your family, and for his own stress-management, he really needs to work on that.


Thanks kokonatsu for your input! I appreciate it. I think you might be right about not noticing that your senses are on overdrive, it's probably not overdrive for you, you've always been this way. My H is the same, all his life he's been misunderstood, he's always been (from an outsiders viewpoint) hypervigilant, easily upset, has allergies, very conscientious, perfectionist. He doesn't see it, but I do. So we've been comparing each other's style in things,(like driving recently, he concentrates intensely, I want music on).

I bought Elaine Aron's book, and read it, and 2 others. Will he read them? No!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Deep Down said:


> I bought Elaine Aron's book, and read it, and 2 others. Will he read them? No!





> He said that he hurts so badly, he'd do anything to stop it.


How do these two statements fit together? He says he'll do anything, but he won't read a book, he wants you to stop talking about meditation, you have to drag him to a counselor that you had to find and interview (and might not even be able to get him to go or participate), etc.

What has he done _himself _to get any sort of help or find some ways to manage his HSP? 

It's not fair that you need to suffer along with him indefinitely because he won't try to help himself. He's super-sensitive to everything except how this affects you?

Are there any support groups for spouses of people with this issue? I think you might need a counselor of your own to help you through this. This is a big strain on your own mental and emotional health, which, as we know, leads to physical problems, too. Don't neglect your own health and sanity while focused on helping him.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Your quite right Norajane. The 2 statements are not compatible, and the irony is not lost on me. 

If you were to ask him, he'd say that all his life people have been telling him that its all his fault, that he needs to change, that he needs to...

What happens instead is that when overwhelmed, he hurts very badly, and as the therapist said, with HSPs, there' no barrier between physical and emotional, so when he's been overwhelmed, he's said that it all hurts so badly he'd do anything, he's normally not in a fit state to do anything useful. 

Once he's better, he forgets the overwhelmed state. It's like a drunk can't remember, sometimes I've asked him and he can't remember things he's said or done, anything. But what he DOES know is that he doesn't want to go back there, he hates thinking about it and just tries to stay calm as best he can.

I think he's scared of confronting any of this, which is why he doesn't want to read a book, or see a therapist. He doesn't see it as a good thing. To be fair, all his life so far, psychs of any sort have only been a bad thing, or a useless thing that cost money. And (yes they cost money here) reading a book would only remind him of the problem. So in short, typical denial.

I'm off work today sick. All tension related, back, neck problems. Getting better thankfully.

I wish there was a support group for spouses of troubled HSPs! I have spoken to a counsellor through my work's employee assistance scheme, and she knows nothing about HSPs. She's been reasonably helpful though with tactics for me on occasion.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I know this is kinda crazy, but how would he respond if you recorded him on your phone when he's in the middle of these breakdowns and then played it for him later when he's forgotten? Maybe hearing himself exactly as he is when he's in an overwhelmed state might force him to face it.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

norajane said:


> I know this is kinda crazy, but how would he respond if you recorded him on your phone when he's in the middle of these breakdowns and then played it for him later when he's forgotten? Maybe hearing himself exactly as he is when he's in an overwhelmed state might force him to face it.


You know I did that once! A couple of years ago. Never played it back to him though, it seemed mean. He knows it happens, he doesn't want to look. I've just spoken to the therapist about how to tell him about her. I will tell him that I found her to help me in dealing with these situations. It's the truth actually. I was thinking I should have an appointment booked. She doesn't think so. He'll only overthink it and scare himself. So I'm going to broach it tonight.


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

Deep Down said:


> What happens instead is that when overwhelmed, he hurts very badly, and as the therapist said, with HSPs, there' no barrier between physical and emotional, so when he's been overwhelmed, he's said that it all hurts so badly he'd do anything, he's normally not in a fit state to do anything useful.
> 
> Once he's better, he forgets the overwhelmed state. It's like a drunk can't remember, sometimes I've asked him and he can't remember things he's said or done, anything. But what he DOES know is that he doesn't want to go back there, he hates thinking about it and just tries to stay calm as best he can.
> 
> I think he's scared of confronting any of this, which is why he doesn't want to read a book, or see a therapist. He doesn't see it as a good thing. To be fair, all his life so far, psychs of any sort have only been a bad thing, or a useless thing that cost money. And (yes they cost money here) reading a book would only remind him of the problem. So in short, typical denial.


Yeah, I can really relate to the emotions actually hurting. I had one episode where it was very much like a panic attack.. but all because of my emotions.. I could hardly even breathe. 

Wow, it's really great that you're supporting him in this way. My husband thinks crying equals weakness, so he hates it when I cry. But he's open to learning how to deal with my tears the way I need him to. 

I guess I would suggest then to say, the next time you have a conversation about him getting help, if he says that he wants to get help with this, then tell him that at least reading the HSP books is not somebody judging him, but helping him through his emotions and stresses. It doesn't have to be overwhelming, as he can read one chapter at a time to deal with it, and really let it sink in, but that you need him to take responsibility for his emotions so you _both_ can have a peaceful life. And that you'll be there to support him 100%, until the end.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Offer to read it WITH him.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> Offer to read it WITH him.


Thanks Turnera,

You know I've gotten SO over reading the books that he needs to read! After reading the 3 books and the Gottman one last year, I gave up. 

Told him about the therapist last night. Response was grumpy but accepting that if I want him to meet her, he'll meet her.

I'm dragging the horse to water, next step is for our therapist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Thanks Turnera,
> 
> You know I've gotten SO over reading the books that he needs to read! After reading the 3 books and the Gottman one last year, I gave up.
> 
> ...


He's going to feel so much better. I bet once he starts seeing her he is going to be really happy.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> Make sure you ask the therapist if they do CBT, which is probably what it will take to change him.


She does!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Ok, tomorrow we see the therapist and the sh*t is flying. He's gone to bed overwhelmed again, after blaming me for calling a "witch doctor", and various other stuff. The therapist suggested the best thing I can do us make him feel safe and give him a hug. But I can't do that when he's shouting at me! I hate this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> @PoohBear - Yep - every job he's had he has gotten stressed about. He's intensely conscientious, and a perfectionist, so you can imagine... This one is the worst cos he's stayed there, they have a horrible blame culture and its quite nasty. Whenever he's taken holidays, he's come back to being blamed for something or other.
> 
> It's not an illness, it's more of a personality trait. But the stress cycle he gets into triggers the worst aspects. Meditation would help, but I've been quite heavy-handed on that topic before, so its an instant red-flag to him now.


Sounds like an illness. 

I would suggest a low dose anti-psychotic and a SSRI.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just remain calm. Repeat I love you when you can. Walk away if you feel overwhelmed. Do whatever it takes not to instigate anything until he can get to the session, so he can see it's not scary.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Cobalt said:


> Sounds like an illness.
> 
> I would suggest a lose dose anti-psychotic and a SSRI.


it's not an illness and he won't take meds. Hopefully today (its today now!) the therapist can get through to him and start the journey. She's suggesting some tools (CBT) and a long talk.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> Just remain calm. Repeat I love you when you can. Walk away if you feel overwhelmed. Do whatever it takes not to instigate anything until he can get to the session, so he can see it's not scary.


Thanks Turnera, I went to the spare bedroom, and left him to go lie down. I figured if I'm not there to shout at, he will go lie down, and he did. I stayed up as late as I could, I needed to calm down, and stop being angry, then came back to bed and gave him a hug. That was good.

I'm still on the verge of tears though, this morning. Just need to get through to 2pm. We can do that....


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Ok, tomorrow we see the therapist and the sh*t is flying. He's gone to bed overwhelmed again, after blaming me for calling a "witch doctor", and various other stuff. The therapist suggested the best thing I can do us make him feel safe and give him a hug. But I can't do that when he's shouting at me! I hate this!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry.  Try not to take it personally. It is his stuff. "Witch Doctor"? I'd find that funny.  Try to stay positive. Although he is resistant, I truly believe he is going to be so happy once he starts going. It will probably be a relief.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> I'm sorry.  Try not to take it personally. It is his stuff. "Witch Doctor"? I'd find that funny.  Try to stay positive. Although he is resistant, I truly believe he is going to be so happy once he starts going. It will probably be a relief.


I hope so, not too long now.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> I hope so, not too long now.


It must be hard for men to have HSP. I don't know a lot about it but it sounds like a person is just much more sensitive than other people? Men aren't allowed to be sensitive so I think it is not only that he is more sensitive but also that he feels pressure not to be. That is sad to me. It's not just women society is hard on. We are hard on men too.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> It must be hard for men to have HSP. I don't know a lot about it but it sounds like a person is just much more sensitive than other people? Men aren't allowed to be sensitive so I think it is not only that he is more sensitive but also that he feels pressure not to be. That is sad to me. It's not just women society is hard on. We are hard on men too.


Yes, and its a total physical, undeniable thing. It's not something they can successfully cover up, as I've learned, it all comes out at some point.

His resistance and fear of today is because no-one in the psych field has ever understood, and he's felt blamed again. To be fair he's never told them much either, they need to earn his trust, and none have so far.

This therapist though is HSP herself, and treated HSPs for 18 years. I have my fingers crossed...


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Yes, and its a total physical, undeniable thing. It's not something they can successfully cover up, as I've learned, it all comes out at some point.
> 
> His resistance and fear of today is because no-one in the psych field has ever understood, and he's felt blamed again. To be fair he's never told them much either, they need to earn his trust, and none have so far.
> 
> This therapist though is HSP herself, and treated HSPs for 18 years. I have my fingers crossed...


Oh my gosh, I totally get that. I have OCD and I basically had to diagnose myself because of the type of OCD I have. Then when I see someone I think they were trying to do the right therapy but when we get to a certain point the therapist is clearly uncomfortable. Then I go through a period with no health insurance and finally see a psychiatrist. I'm thinking, yay! I will finally get the right treatment and they will understand. Nope. 9 years of medication and talk therapy and now I know talk therapy is useless for OCD. Plus, I am talking around the OCD which was not useful and may have even been a compulsion. I finally got the right therapy this past year and it has changed my life! It's so frustrating that I didn't start here. This would have been taken care of in a short amount of time, really. I wouldn't have wasted 9 years of my life doing compulsions that I did not really know I was doing. So yeah, I totally understand about not getting the right treatment. I am so hopeful for you guys. I really hope this therapist is good. It is worth its weight in gold to get the right therapist and the right treatment.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> Oh my gosh, I totally get that. I have OCD and I basically had to diagnose myself because of the type of OCD I have. Then when I see someone I think they were trying to do the right therapy but when we get to a certain point the therapist is clearly uncomfortable. Then I go through a period with no health insurance and finally see a psychiatrist. I'm thinking, yay! I will finally get the right treatment and they will understand. Nope. 9 years of medication and talk therapy and now I know talk therapy is useless for OCD. Plus, I am talking around the OCD which was not useful and may have even been a compulsion. I finally got the right therapy this past year and it has changed my life! It's so frustrating that I didn't start here. This would have been taken care of in a short amount of time, really. I wouldn't have wasted 9 years of my life doing compulsions that I did not really know I was doing. So yeah, I totally understand about not getting the right treatment. I am so hopeful for you guys. I really hope this therapist is good. It is worth its weight in gold to get the right therapist and the right treatment.


I'm so pleased that you finally got good treatment. It can be so difficult to find the right person who knows the right stuff to help.:smthumbup:


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm so glad that the therapist was as good as I'd hoped! It was very tense to start with, but she got rapport with H and slowly moved it forward. She told him that he's definitely HSP, she knows, and there's nothing wrong with him. 

This was what he's never heard from any psych person before, and she delivered it perfectly! She started by telling him she's got 6 various qualifications in mental health, she's worked with approx 500 HSPs, from age 2 to 76 over the last 18 years and then delivered her verdict, that he's fine. She explained what HSP is, validated his experiences, explained that other people don't think like *we* (since she's an HSP as well) do. And that's why they seem so frustrating sometimes. 

For the first time since I've known him, he was overwhelmed before she got here and he was good when she left (she came to our place). He's now walking on air, and calling himself "elite". 

She left him to process this new thought, and told him to give her a call, when he's ready. She knows he needs to process this.

She also explained some CBT exercises, but stressed that he can do them when he's ready. 

I'm SO happy. :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Yay! Congratulations!


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## Cobalt (Nov 16, 2014)

I stand corrected


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

It's not problem solved, but it's a start. There will ups and downs, but the therapist is there for both of us, which is great. Last night was not all smooth, but she's given me advice as to how to keep out of the firing line. He has a lot of processing to do. And it takes time. She used the words "identity shift".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> It's not problem solved, but it's a start. There will ups and downs, but the therapist is there for both of us, which is great. Last night was not all smooth, but she's given me advice as to how to keep out of the firing line. He has a lot of processing to do. And it takes time. She used the words "identity shift".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm glad she is there for both of you. I think that it is so important for both people to be involved. A spouse can inadvertently thwart progress. My husband has never been to see my therapist but I keep him fully appraised of treatment and what he can do to support that. He has even helped in exposure exercises. 

How often is he seeing the therapist? Do you go together or do you talk with the therapist separately? You are such an amazing person to support him through this. I hope he appreciates you.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

It's great that she's there for both of us, I spoke with her on Monday and she gave me more advice, all of which is gold! She left it to H to contact her, she's pretty flexible, and does phone consults so easy to get in touch. If he doesn't follow up by next week, I'll organise something. I know what he's like! Just tonight, he acknowledged that he's not easy to be with atm. He's never said anything like that about this stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> It's great that she's there for both of us, I spoke with her on Monday and she gave me more advice, all of which is gold! She left it to H to contact her, she's pretty flexible, and does phone consults so easy to get in touch. If he doesn't follow up by next week, I'll organise something. I know what he's like! Just tonight, he acknowledged that he's not easy to be with atm. He's never said anything like that about this stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's awesome.  What is atm?


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> That's awesome.  What is atm?


Atm= at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Atm= at the moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I see.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> Atm= at the moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I just realised, he said it without blame as well, for me or him. He used the words I wrote above. "Not easy to be with while he's processing this" no blame at all. Previously he'd have said, " you think I'm being a ******" or he'd blame me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> And I just realised, he said it without blame as well, for me or him. He used the words I wrote above. "Not easy to be with while he's processing this" no blame at all. Previously he'd have said, " you think I'm being a ******" or he'd blame me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's wonderful, Deep Down. It sounds like he finally has the right therapist. So happy for you guys.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread, because alarm bells rang for me. Has your husband at any point been referred by all these shrinks or a GP for a brain scan for a possible tumour? If yes at least you are working with mental illness and/or bad behaviour and can encourage him to get help until you've had enough and walk out. 

I dont want to create alarm, but it should be ruled out and quickly. I have seen similar symptoms before, when my Uncle had a brain tumor.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

from @gumtree Has your husband at any point been referred by all these shrinks or a GP for a brain scan for a possible tumour? 

Actually due an unrelated situation, yes he has about 5 years ago. He's been like this for years, and at one point he fainted and was suspected of brain issues or epilepsy, so full braing scans and nuerological tests were done. 

And he IS HSP, tested proven, by the therapist and the test. And his behaviour matches that. So all good.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Deep Down said:


> He's never said anything like that about this stuff.


He feels safe now.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> He feels safe now.


You could be right, turnera! He's being quite unlike the him of the last few months.
He seems to be at peace inside, right now. Crossing fingers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Update: Hard to believe its the same person I'm married to. I am the one still using patterns that now don't match and I'm needing to rethink myself a lot. I expect a grumpy husband, but he's not. 
He's had bad days at work, but not doing the dwelling on it that he used to. He hasn't seen our therapist again yet, but I've spoken to her this week again. I was feeling angry and resentful about all of the pain I've been through and now he's happy and peaceful all the time.

Again - patience is key, she suggests he needs the time to process that there's nothing wrong with him before we tackle anything else. There's plenty of his past he'll probably need her help to pick through, so he can reframe them in a new light.

However she's pleased with his response so far. Have to say, so am I.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> He hasn't seen our therapist again yet ...


When was the last time your husband saw the therapist? How many sessions has he had thus far?


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> When was the last time your husband saw the therapist? How many sessions has he had thus far?


Last time was the only time he's seen her, 2 weeks ago. I've spoken to her 4 times over the last 4 weeks. There us still a way to go, he still gets frustrated and resorts to blaming when angry, but he is much harder to annoy, and will drop the anger easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you asked him if he's ready to go back? Talk about how much it seems to have helped him, and how happy you are for him to have found her?


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Yes, we've had that conversation today, that she can guide him through this new understanding. He'll see her again.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

So bad news update: money reared its ugly head again. It seems my H has been running up his credit cards again. The new credit cards that were just for the balance transfer have $6000 more than they should have, and their limits got raised. I confronted him about it this weekend. I'm feeling completely betrayed again. 

He's been buying alcohol, not sure what, but when I demanded the internet banking password, I found many transactions at the liquor shop. We saw the therapist again today, and she said that it often happens in these situations, but as they start managing their emotional regulation, things will improve.

I've taken the credit cards and cut them up. I will manage all the finances for a bit and we will not be drinking. Boundaries eh...

I gave an ultimatum, we move forward as long as I have complete access to all his finances, the cards get cut up, and no more alcohol. That's my line in the sand, and its never been quite so clear as it is now. 

All good with the therapist, and he's taken it much better than he would have in the old days. As soon as he starts with the accusing, or blaming, I tell him that I won't be in a conversation like that, its his choice. He stops.

I've taken enough walks around the block now that he knows I mean it. therapist tells me that its will improve. Just hanging in there.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

It’s been a really horrible week. I've probably spent about 20 hours dealing with financials. And now I'm dealing with my own reaction to all this. I reckon last Sunday I was still in shock. Monday I went to work, started talking to a girlfriend and burst into tears. I couldn't come home, my daughter's here, I couldn't work, there was too much stuff flying round in my head. My girlfriend found a place for me to be by myself, and I "called in sick", and set to working out what I needed to do.

The more I looked at his finances, the more it scared me. He's always been really defensive about his finances and last year we spent 3 months arguing about it. That was the last time he ran out of credit. This time I could see he had missed his last personal loan payment, and both his credit cards were at the limit. One had been getting charges on it due to him missing payments, as well as him taking cash advances out to buy alcohol. 

I don't know how long the drinking has been going on for, but I found lots of transactions going back to beginning of 2014, and some in another account going earlier than that, so its been a while. I think some days he's been having the equivalent of about 2 maybe even 3 bottles of wine a day. 

So Monday, I got paperwork together to move the house back into my name. I applied for a home loan in my name only, all OK. These are now sitting on the backburner. I paid out and closed one credit card, and made the payment on the other. I worked out a budget for him based on his income, giving him pocket money and allocating the rest to loan payments, bills etc. Monday night was horrible.

Tuesday I was in full panic mode, I moved all money in our joint accounts into my accounts, so he couldn't access it. Tuesday night was horrible. His pay was coming in on Thursday and I wanted to be able to set everything up so he couldn't just grab it all. 

He was finding things to accuse me of, having an affair etc. 

He's still drinking, but he says he's only having one drink a day. I have no idea how true that is. I tipped out all the alcohol in the house. I think I'd be sick if I had any at the moment anyway.
The therapist says to be flexible and to make one change at a time. Go easy on the alcohol and get the money sorted. I'm not the flexible type about agreements, and it doesn't sit well with me at all. People at my work know something’s up, I’m not getting my work done, you only need to look at me the wrong way and I burst into tears. 

We had 2 nights with little drama, doing the admin associated with his pay, setting up regular payments etc. 

Then last night, as he gets annoyed with his laptop because it is slow and always wants updates and he’d said he wanted to look up something on it, I decided to be nice and open his laptop and run any updates before he got in, so it would ready to go (I work in IT). He found me and DD sitting at the table, with his laptop open and thought the worst, that we were both checking his internet history or emails or something. After he stomped off, to make things worse, my DD22 did the old, “you don’t care about me, you just want me out of the house, why do you spend all your time on him” before going to her BFs, so that started my tears. 
So WW3 happened again. Thankfully DD22 was out for the night.

So I’m just as guilty as him of not doing the STOP thing this week. Everything and anything triggers a new revelation, a new way to interpret a memory, all those times he let me carry the stress of money, while he was drinking his (and mine) away.

It’s Valentines Day here today, and he’s given me a card, a Valentine’s card that says Sorry in it. I think today he’s trying to tell me that he understands the hurt he’s caused me. He’s wanting to work with me to sort this out, he says. He’s saying thank you to me for sorting out his money. He’s trying his best today to be nice. I’m still feeling really angry and hurt. I don’t know how long this will take to recover from. I know inside his defensive shell that he loves me and wants us to stay together, and will do his best. 

Please give me advice?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You two have different languages. And different love languages. And different coping skills. You aren't going to fix that overnight.

So I suggest you list your pros, remind yourself why you're still there, that he's still there, the world isn't ending, and you're here (and there) learning.

Also, please keep your daughter in mind. She's pretty old to be throwing fits, so I'm going to guess that there's something seriously wrong with your/her/his relationship. You need to address it. Not fix it, not right away, just address it.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> You two have different languages. And different love languages. And different coping skills. You aren't going to fix that overnight.


Actually the same love languages, quality time and physical touch. Coping skills are hugely different, him being HSP, who has never learned a useful way to cope with problems. The therapist is teaching him CBT and mindful meditation, but its early days. This will take a long time.



turnera said:


> So I suggest you list your pros, remind yourself why you're still there, that he's still there, the world isn't ending, and you're here (and there) learning.


Thanks Turnera, the world isn't ending, I'm just learning a really valuable lesson. I've been walking on eggshells and, if nothing else since this broke, I'm being honest, absolutely honest and not pulling punches as I used to. 



turnera said:


> Also, please keep your daughter in mind. She's pretty old to be throwing fits, so I'm going to guess that there's something seriously wrong with your/her/his relationship. You need to address it. Not fix it, not right away, just address it.


 She didn't throw a fit, she talked very calmly, but her words hit my guilt chip. Yes, this has been a problem since H moved in. She and I had been together for 10 years, so having a man move in and take up all my time was a very nasty shock to her. We've been having issues over the last year, and I've never wanted her to see my


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Oh, I'm sorry you guys are having a rough time. I wish you the best. Sometimes it's one step forward and two steps back.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Sorry I got interrupted when I was writing the last post. DD22 is always calm, or at least appears calm, gets it from me I think. ;-)
i have however been neglecting her or avoiding her for the last year while all this s**t has been going on. I feel guilty about it, but I don't want her to see me crying, or upset. She used to get involved in our fights in the earlier years, and has been a bit scarred about it. From her perspective, why would I want to stay with someone who throws tantrums, is bad tempered, and now drinking and spending my money. 

However Valentines Day went pretty well. We went to the beach (summer here), and ate fish and chips. He's trying to convince me that he's changing. I've told him it will take time for me to be convinced. The good thing is its out in the open now, and that means we can start thinking about moving forward. I scored 56% as an alcholic enabler in an online quiz, so that's not too bad. And the things I was doing; paying bills for him, and making excuses for him, has now stopped. 

I checked another article on psychology today about dealing with betrayal. About remorse (check), restitution(see below), there needs to be rehabilitation (the therapist) and request forgiveness after a while of proving the rest (I'm not there yet).

In working out his budget, I decided and he agreed that he can pay back our joint mortgage offset account that had to bail him out this time (and last time). So that's one of the regular payments I've scheduled, with his agreement. This account was meant as a joint buffer, but I was the only one putting money into it. He claimed he was too broke. So he's paying that back.

I paid for his kids' birthday and Christmas presents, he's paying that back too. 

He doesn't get enough pocket money to buy as much booze as he was, so I'm looking out for when he runs out, to see what happens. He reckons he's having one drink a day, if he is, he'll make it fine. The drinking needs to stop completely though for me to consider us to be OK. But the therapist said, one thing at a time, do the money first then the drinking. 

Anyway, I'm feeling calmer today, Sunday. Weekends have always been bad. Weirdly, this one hasn't been too bad at all all things considered.

I'm looking for advice so please give me your thoughts.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> Oh, I'm sorry you guys are having a rough time. I wish you the best. Sometimes it's one step forward and two steps back.


Thanks Pooh Bear, feels like it, but now I'm getting to see it as we hadn't gotten to the bottom of it yet. I hope we have now!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Maybe he does only have one drink a day. Ever consider he may pour the drink into a Big Gulp cup? That's still one, right?

So you got rid of the booze. Why? Do you think that will control his drinking? Only he can do that. Have you been searching the house to see if he's hidden any other bottles?

You have drawn a boundary. What will you do when, and if, he crosses it?

I know you don't realize it yet, but you just bought a ticket on the crazy train. And if my gut instinct is right, he's going to cross that boundary, manipulate the heck out of you, and have you convinced he isn't drinking that much.

You can drag him in and out of counseling all you want. If he's an alcoholic, and I'd bet he is, you are not going to get him to give up the booze nor will you get him sober.

Sure, he'll moderate for awhile to get you out of his face and off his back, but alcoholics are very creative when it comes to getting what they want; namely, booze.

If he's hooked on it, if he wants it, he'll get it. And it won't mean squat what boundaries you put up.

I know. Trust me. I REALLY know.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you discuss what will happen when he opens the next credit card in secret?


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Maybe he does only have one drink a day. Ever consider he may pour the drink into a Big Gulp cup? That's still one, right?
> 
> So you got rid of the booze. Why? Do you think that will control his drinking? Only he can do that. Have you been searching the house to see if he's hidden any other bottles?
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm in crazy town alright. Think I have been for a while, just didn't know it. 
I have searched the place. I've suspected once before, years ago, and searched, found bottles, this time I haven't found any, but he's gotten smarter. He goes for a walk, buys them and drinks them, doesn't bring them home. That's why I didn't know. It was only checking his bank records that gave it away. He can't afford more than one drink a day. So I'm checking his account to see if he's running out if money too quickly. So far so good. 

I don't know what to do next.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> Did you discuss what will happen when he opens the next credit card in secret?


I bought the credit checking that alerts me if he tries to open a new card. I don't know what to do beyond that. I suppose go through the legals to move the house into my name. I've set our joint account to be 'both to sign' so he'd have to open a new card if he wanted to drink more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, I mean have you discussed with HIM what will happen? He needs to know your boundaries and what consequences will occur if he crosses them.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Deep down I want to give you an old southern saying: all of his cups ain't in the cupboard. Forget about the HP article and all the HSP stuff, he is bat sh#t crazy. Do not pass go, run like the wind!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> I've suspected once before, years ago, and searched, found bottles, this time I haven't found any, but he's gotten smarter.


Yes, and he will continue to outsmart you. He wants to drink. You don't want him to drink. You attempt to control his drinking. He manipulates you. A no win situation.

And I will tell you this from first-hand experience: You will become as crazy - even crazier - than him. 



Deep Down said:


> He goes for a walk, buys them and drinks them ... So I'm checking his account to see if he's running out if money too quickly. So far so good.


Uh, no ... not so far so good. Not for him. Not for you. Get out of his business and start tending to yours. You cannot and will not control an addict. You can check for bottles inside the toilet tank, behind the boxes in the attic, chase him down alleys, and I could go on and on.

If he wants to drink, he WILL drink.

I lived through this and I saw it for what it is. Leave your husband alone. Get counseling. Get into Al-Anon. Get your focus off of him and onto you.

Boundaries? They are for you, NOT him. His boundaries are none of your business.

Your life. Your choices. It's short. Start educating yourself on what you have to do for yourself. YOU.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Deep Down said:


> From her perspective, why would I want to stay with someone who throws tantrums, is bad tempered, and now drinking and spending my money.


Deep, you are describing behaviors that go far beyond a simple sensitivity to loud sounds and other sensory stimulation. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., temper tantrums, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim" (blame-shifting), and lack of impulse control (e.g., alcohol abuse and binge spending) -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). My BPDer exW, for example, exhibited these same traits and, like your H, she ran up unpaid bills of $10,000 on three different "secret" credit cards I eventually discovered.

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. Even when those traits fall well below the diagnostic level for "having full-blown BPD," they can be strong enough to make your life miserable and undermine a marriage.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, _I cannot know the answer to that question_. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as strong verbal abuse, temper tantrums, blame-shifting, and lack of impulse control.



> I've been walking on eggshells.


"Walking on eggshells" is an enabling behavior that is harmful to both you and your H. That's why the best-selling book on BPD (targeted to the abused spouses of BPDers) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> I'm looking for advice so please give me your thoughts.


My thoughts are that you should see YOUR OWN psychologist to obtain a second opinion ASAP. Whenever BPD is a possible diagnosis, relying on HIS therapist for candid advice is as foolish as relying on HIS attorney for candid advice during a divorce. Like the attorney, his therapist is ethically bound to protect HIS best interests, not yours. 

I mention this because it is widely known -- both inside and outside the psychiatric community -- that therapists generally are LOATH to tell a client (much less tell his wife) the name of the disorder when it is determined to be BPD. I discuss the reasons for this widespread withholding of the disorder's name at *Loath to Diagnose*. 

I therefore suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you are dealing with. By seeing your own psychologist for a second opinion, you ensure that this psychologist is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not those of your H. If the psych determines that most BPD warning signs are present, an important issue is whether those BPD traits are causing the alcohol abuse or, alternatively, whether the alcohol abuse is causing a temporary display of BPD traits.

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most of them seem to apply. An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Deep.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Uptown, are you a pyschiatrist or psychologist? How would a separate psychologist diagnose someone without having met them? Not a very good one, I would say.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Pooh Bear said:


> Uptown, are you a pyschiatrist or psychologist?


No.



> How would a separate psychologist diagnose someone without having met them?


Good question, Pooh. Without seeing the client, a psych cannot make a diagnosis. That's why I suggested that Deep see her own psychologist to obtain a _"candid professional opinion"_ -- not a formal diagnosis. In my experience, most psychologists will be forthcoming enough to say something like "it sounds to me like you may be dealing with a...." In this case, a psych can render such an opinion based on Deep's nearly 8 years of experiences with her H.

If my advice still seems strange to you, please consider that BPDers generally are very good actors and most are so high functioning that they can easily hide their dark side in a 50 minute meeting held once a week. Hence, whenever BPD is involved, it may take the BPDer's psychologist two years to see the dysfunctional behaviors that his wife sees all week long. And, when the psych gets close to doing exactly that, a BPDer typically will switch to another therapist or terminate therapy entirely.

As I said earlier, I cannot know whether her H is exhibiting strong BPD traits. But, if he is, Deep's best chance of actually being told about it -- ironically -- is to see a psychologist who's never treated or seen him. There are several reasons for this which I discuss at Loath to Diagnose.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Uptown said:


> No.
> 
> Good question, Pooh. Without seeing the client, a psych cannot make a diagnosis. That's why I suggested that Deep see her own psychologist to obtain a _"candid professional opinion"_ -- not a formal diagnosis. In my experience, most psychologists will be forthcoming enough to say something like "it sounds to me like you may be dealing with a...." In this case, a psych can render such an opinion based on Deep's nearly 8 years of experiences with her H.
> 
> ...


Hi Uptown, I checked your list earlier, he's not bpd,not even close.and my psych is the therapist who had diagnosed him from my description, and confirmed by meeting him, that he's HSP. The drinking even, is very consistent with older male HSPs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Deep Down said:


> He's not bpd, not even close.


Deep, that's great that you've not seen strong warning signs for BPD. It is a painful, isolating disorder that I would not wish on my worst enemy.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Maybe he does only have one drink a day. Ever consider he may pour the drink into a Big Gulp cup? That's still one, right?
> 
> So you got rid of the booze. Why? Do you think that will control his drinking? Only he can do that. Have you been searching the house to see if he's hidden any other bottles?
> 
> ...


Prodigal,what you say is scary. I've spoken to the therapist, not sure if he is an alcoholic or not. She says many ppl like him choose something to self medicate with. I don't know. I'm choosing to trust her judgment but monitor, via the money. And you're right, I want MY life back. Radical ho.esty is my way forward at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> I've spoken to the therapist, not sure if he is an alcoholic or not. She says many ppl like him choose something to self medicate with.


Unless your counselor is an addictions specialist, it doesn't matter. Why are you asking your therapist? Only your husband can determine if he's an alcoholic. A year before my husband died, he adamantly stated he wasn't an alcoholic. He had burned through three jobs, two marriages, over $300K of his retirement, and had an interlock device on his truck.

BUT HE WASN'T AN ALCOHOLIC. Self-medicating???? THAT IS WHAT ADDICTS DO. THEY SELF-MEDICATE. 



Deep Down said:


> I don't know. I'm choosing to trust her judgment but monitor, via the money. And you're right, I want MY life back.


No, you don't want your life back. At least, not yet. You are monitoring the money. Until you leave your husband alone to do what he wants to do, you are playing controller and mommy. Monitoring? Do you realize just how crazy that sounds? What are you hoping to do by "monitoring" him? Keep him from drinking. C'mon ...

Trusting a counselor's judgment, who is not treating your husband, is just plain dumb. He isn't her client, you are. Why not ask your therapist what she thinks about your codependency. AND why not ask her why she is even attempting to diagnose someone who is not her client. 

Seriously, so many of these therapists sound like goofs to me. I worked with a psychologist who specialized in addictions. He understood my codependency and he understood my husband's alcoholism. But he didn't get into my husband's issues. He worked with me on MINE.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Prodigal it sounds like your H was an alcoholic but wouldn't admit to it. Maybe mine is too, I don't know. I know it's more likely that HSPS often turn to drugs or alcohol to cope with their distress. I'm not sure how useful a label is here, what is required, is change from us both. Yes, I'm looking after the money, I'm comfortable with doing this, I like looking after money. My H has always been useless with money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

He just started with this therapist really. I think sometimes it takes time.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Pooh Bear said:


> He just started with this therapist really. I think sometimes it takes time.


Pooh, yes that's what she says, he needs time to process all this, and he refers to still coming to terms with it
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The slowest part of the body to heal is the brain. You can LEARN what you should be doing in a given situation, to change the wiring in your brain, but your brain will fight you on it. And it will take months, if not years, to re-wire your brain's instantaneous choices.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Uptown said:


> No.
> 
> Good question, Pooh. Without seeing the client, a psych cannot make a diagnosis. That's why I suggested that Deep see her own psychologist to obtain a _"candid professional opinion"_ -- not a formal diagnosis. In my experience, most psychologists will be forthcoming enough to say something like "it sounds to me like you may be dealing with a...." In this case, a psych can render such an opinion based on Deep's nearly 8 years of experiences with her H.
> 
> ...


What is your purpose in telling so many people that their spouse might have this disorder? And then telling people that mental health professionals cannot be trusted to be honest about a diagnosis? I think it's kind of dangerous, Uptown. It's fearmongering. And it does a disservice to people who actually have this disorder.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Well last was him being angry cos the previous night i'd probably stepped over a line. I'd checked his pocket money account and fretted out loud that he'd run out of money before his next pay. I think he felt I'd violated what little privacy he felt he had. After a lot of global complaints from him about me being controlling, he got to that. As turnera said, it takes ages to change reactions. Once I apologised for that one action, he was fine. I think he'd already overthought it to death. Upon reflection I had been fretting over nothing. It's the lack of trust in me now I'm fretting, and checking a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Pooh Bear said:


> What is your purpose in telling so many people that their spouse might have this disorder?


Telling "so many people"? Really, Pooh? In the five years I've been a TAM member, I've participated in fewer than 800 threads mentioning BPD -- about 1% of the threads appearing here during that time. In contrast, the lifetime incidence for BPD is believed to be 6% of the population. Moreover, because unstable people don't form lasting Long Term Relationships with other unstable people, BPDers almost always pair up with nonBPDers who can provide the stability and sense of identity they sorely need. This means that about 12% of LTRs have one BPDer in them. 



> And then telling people that mental health professionals cannot be trusted to be honest about a diagnosis?


On the contrary, I've encouraged the OP to see a psychologist in nearly every thread I've participated in. Mental health professionals generally are honest people. Yet, like attorneys, they are ethically bound to protect the best interests of their clients -- and are ethically bound to withhold information that would be harmful to those clients. 

This is why I encourage the nonBPDer spouses to see THEIR OWN psychologist for a candid professional opinion whenever strong BPD warning signs are seen -- just like they would see THEIR OWN attorney during a divorce. It is widely known -- both inside and outside the psychiatric community -- that therapists generally are reluctant to tell a BPDer (or her spouse) the name of her disorder. One reason is that the BPDer almost certainly will terminate therapy on hearing the diagnosis name. Another reason is that insurance coverage of therapy sessions almost certainly will be terminated. I discuss other reasons at Loath to Diagnose.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> Well last was him being angry cos the previous night i'd probably stepped over a line. I'd checked his pocket money account and fretted out loud that he'd run out of money before his next pay.


Then why not let him experience the consequences of his actions? If he's careless with money, so be it. Take care of your money. Have separate accounts. Start separating the funds. What you earn is yours; what he earns is his.



Deep Down said:


> It's the lack of trust in me now I'm fretting, and checking a lot.


So start addressing your lack of trust issues. And really dig into it. Your fretting, worrying, checking, and attempting to control aren't doing any good. He will drink and misuse money as he has always done. Those are his issues. You cannot control them. You need to find out why you think you can worry about what he does and control what he does.

I'd suggest you get Melodie Beatty's classic, _Codependent No More._ I read it through twice and didn't get it. The third time, I argued with the author's premise.

It took me four years to GET IT. Just something to consider.

Labels? Nope. I'm just giving you my opinion. And in my never-to-be-humble opinion, your husband has, at the least, a dependency on alcohol. Alcoholics come in all sorts of flavors. 

I'm just giving you my perspective based on my experience. My husband drank himself to death. I could have worried, fretted, and babysat him. Chances are good he would be alive today, although he would have eventually killed himself.

But I went no contact. I respected his right to make HIS choices. His life. His choices. My life. My choices.

Best of luck.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Telling "so many people"? Really, Pooh? In the five years I've been a TAM member, I've participated in fewer than 800 threads mentioning BPD -- about 1% of the threads appearing here during that time. In contrast, the lifetime incidence for BPD is believed to be 6% of the population. Moreover, because unstable people don't form lasting Long Term Relationships with other unstable people, BPDers almost always pair up with nonBPDers who can provide the stability and sense of identity they sorely need. This means that about 12% of LTRs have one BPDer in them.
> 
> On the contrary, I've encouraged the OP to see a psychologist in nearly every thread I've participated in. Mental health professionals generally are honest people. Yet, like attorneys, they are ethically bound to protect the best interests of their clients -- and are ethically bound to withhold information that would be harmful to those clients.
> 
> This is why I encourage the nonBPDer spouses to see THEIR OWN psychologist for a candid professional opinion whenever strong BPD warning signs are seen -- just like they would see THEIR OWN attorney during a divorce. It is widely known -- both inside and outside the psychiatric community -- that therapists generally are reluctant to tell a BPDer (or her spouse) the name of her disorder. One reason is that the BPDer almost certainly will terminate therapy on hearing the diagnosis name. Another reason is that insurance coverage of therapy sessions almost certainly will be terminated. I discuss other reasons at Loath to Diagnose.


I've seen you post this multiple times in multiple threads. I think you're wrong in posting it. But it is your business.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi prodigal, just to clarify, if he runs out of money, it is his problem, he knows that. And he can't get to any joint accounts or any of mine. I really should have just left it unsaid. And upon reflection, I was just fretting. Why do I fret? That's easy, I've just financially bailed him out for the 3rd time. I no longer trust him. 6 months ago I just thought he needed help on the budgeting, I didn't know what he was spending it on. I want to move on from this, so we can have a happy marriage. I don't know if that will happen, but right now I figure he needs my support and love, so that's what I'm doing, as best I can, while being honest and straight with him. I'll read the book, but I'll also be doing what our therapist suggests.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I hope you don't bail him out financially any longer. I can understand how that would be stressful. And I hope you realize you brought the fretting upon yourself.

I guess you will discover how problematical your husband's drinking really is. He's out of money. Just wait to see how creative he becomes to find money for booze. If he doesn't find funds, observe his moods. it may be a tip-off to how much of a problem he is grappling with.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Hey Prodigal, I've started reading Codependency No More and can see some similarities. I've developed the ability to see the eggshells to avoid, etc. I can see I have a lot to learn about being clearThis is definitely the last time I bail him out, and you know he's still angry that I'm controlling him and don't care about him at all, just being a money hungry b**ch. But then its Friday night, and Friday nights are always bad. It's not the control he's worried about, more that I'll throw him out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He should worry about it.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> He should worry about it.


Only problem is that he then escalates his worry in his head, overthinks it to death and then pours global blame over me. Or at least that's his Friday night party trick!

Last night was a bad one cos I'd gone for a team drink after work. So he decided I was having an affair as well. HSPs, I'm getting to understand, will run thousands of scenarios in their head in moments. Problem is the data that they use to do it. If the data going in is garbage (team drinks = having an affair) he overprocesses it to I'm going to throw him out. It took a good hour or so until he could calm down and realise he may have made a miscalculation. The fact that I'd had 2 glasses of wine also made it harder for me to be calm. 2 weeks of no drinking at all, then 2 drinks! I wasn't on best form...

Saturday and we are both calm again. I'm reading "codependent no more" and doing the activities. 

Prodigal, I don't think I'm a long way down the codependent road, but I'm taking it really seriously. I'm fully aware that I'm trying to control H's behaviour. I'm definitely controlling his money. And I'm sick to death of this affecting me, my life, and D22's life as well. However I'm trusting our therapist as well, and doing my best to provide support while being really serious about my needs.

I'm happy to learn what I need to learn to come out of this a stronger person. H has also expressed more than once that he wants us to come through this stronger than before. 

Financially, and emotionally I'm in a stronger position than H, and I am doing my d**ndest to use my position for good, not evil.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your specialist IC should be helping you come up with solutions for the times he does that. He shouldn't have the right to ruin y'all's nights - or lives - just because he has a condition.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> Prodigal, I don't think I'm a long way down the codependent road, but I'm taking it really seriously. I'm fully aware that I'm trying to control H's behaviour. I'm definitely controlling his money. And I'm sick to death of this affecting me, my life, and D22's life as well. However I'm trusting our therapist as well, and doing my best to provide support while being really serious about my needs.


You are in denial. You aren't "long" down the codependent road, but you try to control your husband's behavior. You control his money. You are sick of doing it, but you do it.

Hon, let me give it to you straight up: You can't be a little bit pregnant, nor can you be a little bit codependent.

By controlling, or attempting to control, another person's behaviors, actions, issues, or whatever else IS codependency. Period.

You have no control over anyone other than yourself. The fact that you are attempting to control someone else is proof positive of codependency.

Not a little bit. Not too far down the road. It is what it is.

Seriously.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

turnera said:


> Your specialist IC should be helping you come up with solutions for the times he does that. He shouldn't have the right to ruin y'all's nights - or lives - just because he has a condition.


Agreed, and so far I have no strategies for those situations. It's all about STOP really! To be fair tho, the behaviour is nowhere near as bad as it was over Christmas, and up until he met with our therapist the first time. So my life has improved on that level. As time marches on, my reaction to the betrayal is moderating as well. We used to have bad weekends for the entire weekend, last weekend and this one so far, it's only been Friday nights. So there is progress.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> You are in denial. You aren't "long" down the codependent road, but you try to control your husband's behavior. You control his money. You are sick of doing it, but you do it.
> 
> Hon, let me give it to you straight up: You can't be a little bit pregnant, nor can you be a little bit codependent.
> 
> ...


I hear what you're saying Prodigal, but I'm not in denial either. I've spent a lot of time in my life working on myself, after my first marriage to increase my conscious awareness of what's going on. 

I'll ask you, what's the difference between reacting to a very nasty revelation, and codependency?

I had a nasty surprise, was hugely upset, obsessed about it, I took the action required to protect our assets, then the painful emotions started subsiding,and I started to move forward, providing what support I can to H. 

There's a line in the sand, and apart from being me flexible as our therapist has suggested, he's toeing it. I'm reading the book and doing the exercises. I can see where its coming from and won't deny some of the aspects. 

What I'm saying is MY life isn't being ruined here.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

If your life wasn't being ruined to some degree, you wouldn't be posting here and you wouldn't title your thread "Help!". 

I'm not going to argue this further. 

Take charge of the assets. Draw lines in the sand. Make sure you keep him in line and assure he isn't boozing, over-spending, or whatever else he does to f!ck up the works.

Do what your therapist advises and protect your finances.

Best of luck. I hope everything works out for you. Really. 

Again, I really wish you all the best.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

So far so good.

I've read the codependency book. Learnt a few things, it tallies with some other pieces of information I've been sitting on with regard to my prioritising others' needs over mine. I've been doing a barrage of psychometric tests over the past few weeks for work, and it spells out that while I can be single-minded about my goals, I've learned over the years to care about others, possibly too much. So I'm now telling H and D22 what I want, rather than just responding to what they want.

We are no longer as broke as I thought we were, since H is sticking to his part of the budget. I get that it will take him a few pay cycles to learn that the limit is the limit. He ran out of money just in time last pay cycle. this time he wants to pay to go to a car race weekend, so he's working out how to do that.

I can now spend money on what I want, because I'm not feeling the pressure of having to cover for him. I'm enjoying that I can meet my needs, and just say them. I need a new office chair, I'll go buy one. 

I don't know how much he's drinking. Can't be more than one drink a day or he'd have run out of money. But I'm not worrying about that. I've set my boundaries around alcohol, and that's working for me. 

Funny situation the other day, a recipe called for alcoholic apple cider. H asked if I can get some when shopping. Answered no. If you want it you can get it. I'll get some apple juice, but not cider, if that'll work. He was a bit annoyed, but went and got cider himself. When it came time to make the recipe, he used more cider than needed, so it was all used up. 

We had our first fight-free Friday night, and apart from some wobbles on Saturday due to a health scare, all has been fine. He says now that his stress levels are now so low they're nothing compared to before he met our therapist. She visited today, and he's saying that he's learning to take a breath before responding. He's learning to point his mind in the direction of happier thoughts when he notices he's ruminating. 

There are ups and downs, but generally I have to say its more up than down this week. Thanks for listening!!


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Deep Down said:


> So far so good.
> 
> I've read the codependency book. Learnt a few things, it tallies with some other pieces of information I've been sitting on with regard to my prioritising others' needs over mine. I've been doing a barrage of psychometric tests over the past few weeks for work, and it spells out that while I can be single-minded about my goals, I've learned over the years to care about others, possibly too much. So I'm now telling H and D22 what I want, rather than just responding to what they want.
> 
> ...


That's awesome! I'm so happy things are going well.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi all, thought I'd drop in and check on Navy3 and give you an update. So glad to know she's on the mend. 

I decided to get stuck back into my life rather than chatting here. My life needed me.

Things continue to improve here. 

Our therapist has been marvellous in helping me cope when it gets wobbly, but it gets wobbly less and less these days. She has met with H 3 times now, not much really. And she'd like to let him have plenty of time to process before seeing him again. It's an HSP thing, apparently that you need to let things process and settle by themselves rather than force change. I had been speaking to her, almost weekly up until March, then as things improved, less often. 

H is on the journey, and we are learning to communicate to each other better, calmly, and before anything gets misunderstood or heated. If things get heated we both now know to take a break, and wait to talk until we calm down. Our therapist tackled the resentment he had about me managing the money, and I now get respect and we can now have grown up conversations about our finances. 

It's amazing really. I always knew my H was smart, but could never understand why he'd suggest such stupid things, but now that I know more about how his mind works, and we communicate better, I can understand where he's coming from. Each time he's met with our therapist he's come away significantly better, calmer, and with more understanding of himself, which he's then able to apply for the good.

I don't mind managing the finances, I'm used to it, and now that he accepts it, we are good. He's paying down his debts, due to my management and not overspending on his pocketmoney, which is all he has to be responsible for now. He says its actually a great weight off his mind. I now feel so much more comfortable about our finances, that I feel we can plan for the future, knowing that I wont suddenly be hit with a debt that we need to work around. 

I've remained flexible about the drinking, as requested by our therapist, and figure he can't be drinking much on his pocket money anyway. 

I'm hugely grateful that I found our therapist, an HSP herself who can see into his mind with compassion and understanding. Her understanding of my feelings has been a blessing, when times were tough. She has brought so much peace for us, it's terrific. Working out the root cause of the issues has (so far) brought so much benefit to us, more than I ever thought possible. Each time she speaks with H, he is able to apply what he learns to other situations and multiply the benefit. So it's like a virtuous cycle we're in. 

I've been able to take a step up at work as a result of having so much head-space back. So I'm now happy, busy, fulfilled and content at home. 4 months I was in crisis, now calm.

It makes me wonder again, given that HSP's are at least 15% of our population, how often it sits behind the issues that people present with. Seeing how much its helped my H, to learn about it, I'm thinking it should almost be the first thing to check out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So nice to hear. I too am glad Navy is doing better. 

I'm not biased because I've always studied psychology or because my DD24's a psych grad student, lol, but I truly think that understanding the brain is SO beneficial, to almost all of us. I equate it to how you don't learn in high school how to balance a checkbook or build up your credit, but boy if you did, think how much pain you would have avoided.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Hi all,

Just checking in again, SO glad to see Navy3 doing so well. 

Things have continued to improve here. While there have been hiccups, H is able to keep pretty calm through most things. His daughter stayed with us for Christmas, and all was well, until Christmas Eve when plumbing in the roof caused our ceiling to collapse, we had no cooling through the heatwaves we had, then his business got vandalised and damaged a few days later. While he was pretty hysterical on the inside, he managed to largely hold it together while his daughter was here. Of course he got ill, so ended up spending the last weekend in bed sick. Huge provocation, and only one blow up between us. 

Background to this, he bought a business on top of his day job in Nov. So lots of extra responsibilities that he's adjusting to. I'm being made redundant, so there's instability there. Before that I was getting quite stressed at work, so leaning on him a LOT.

We've had a huge year of learning and growing, mostly together. I hope everyone has a great 2016!


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