# My wife kissed a man and stays friends



## Hockey27

My wife and I have been married for 8 years, together for 18. During the first 4 years of our relationship, I kissed two other women, and had an inappropriate relationship with one of those two women and continuously lied about it. I don't behave that way any more, but the damage was done. Recently, my wife lost her best (female) friend, and has been really struggling. Unfortunately, I wasn't as tuned in to her as I should have been. She started talking to another man she met at our kids' swimming lessons. One day, after she suspiciously changed our text / data plan (she normally has me make those changes) I checked the logs and found she was texting this person 150+ times per day. I confronted her, she swore it was friendship only, and that it would stop. After two weeks of quietly suspicious behavior, I put a piece of software on her computer to see her Facebook chat logs and learned that she had seen this man 2X in 2 weeks, and that they had been kissing. The chat log showed so much more - promises of trying to get a weekend together. Apparently she said to him "Not Yet". I confronted her, she said its a huge mistake, that she felt so alone, scared, and confused about her friend taking her own life. She said she doesn't really have romantic feelings for him, but that they have a real connection based on similar childhood trauma. They still chat 1 - 2x per day, they see each other with kids present (They both stay at home with the kids) 2x per week, and I am so nervous. She swears I am her one true love, she doesn't care about him that way, etc. Am I being naive to trust her again and allow her to stay friends? Is this the definition of an emotional affair? She swears it is not. I am just confused, and I want to move forward with her.


----------



## Jellybeans

Hockey27 said:


> Am I being naive to trust her again and allow her to stay friends?


Yes.

She is cheating on you. It's emotional and probably physical, hell they've already kissed. They may have done more.

Check it out: you need to set a hard boundary. It ends with him or you will consider ending the marriage, that you won't live in an open marriage.

Is she aware of your previous infidelities?

*And sidenote: this is why revenge cheating is not the answer*

Is dude married?


----------



## Shaggy

She's cheating on you.

Find his wife and tell her that her husband is cheating with you wife.

You tried the nice confrontation, now it's time to go nuke.

No contact at all. None.


----------



## Hockey27

Jellybeans said:


> Yes.
> 
> She is cheating on you. It's emotional an dprobably physical, hell they've already kissed. They may have done more.
> 
> Check it out: you need to set a hard boundary. It ends with him or you will consider ending the marriage, that you won't live in an open marriage.
> 
> Is she aware of your previous infidelities?
> 
> *And sidenote: this is why revenge cheating is not the answer*
> 
> Is dude married?


Yes, the guy is married. I don't think they have done more, and I have continued to monitor facebook / text, so I believe they are just friends now. However, I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop...


----------



## Shaggy

It's not an EA it's a PA. They have been making out with lots of groping, and we're planning on full on sex.

That's a PA and she is really treating you like she thinks your a fool but continuing contact with him in front of you.

Do you now have all her passwords and are you reading what they are texting.?


----------



## Hockey27

Shaggy said:


> It's not an EA it's a PA. They have been making out with lots of groping, and we're planning on full on sex.
> 
> That's a PA and she is really treating you like she thinks your a fool but continuing contact with him in front of you.
> 
> Do you now have all her passwords and are you reading what they are texting.?


I was, but I stopped. It made me crazy. I have a tool for getting her facebook logs, but i turned it off. This is so un-like her! Is anyone of the opinion that she may have stopped the inappropriateness, or am I fooling myself?


----------



## Shaggy

Hockey27 said:


> Yes, the guy is married. I don't think they have done more, and I have continued to monitor facebook / text, so I believe they are just friends now. However, I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop...


Tell his wife. Just like you she has a right to know. Do not warn your wife you are talking to the OMW.

Why are you waiting for the shoe to drop? You already caught them, now take action.


----------



## bkaydezz

Hockey27 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, together for 18. During the first 4 years of our relationship, I kissed two other women, and had an inappropriate relationship with one of those two women and continuously lied about it. I don't behave that way any more, but the damage was done. Recently, my wife lost her best (female) friend, and has been really struggling. Unfortunately, I wasn't as tuned in to her as I should have been. She started talking to another man she met at our kids' swimming lessons. One day, after she suspiciously changed our text / data plan (she normally has me make those changes) I checked the logs and found she was texting this person 150+ times per day. I confronted her, she swore it was friendship only, and that it would stop. After two weeks of quietly suspicious behavior, I put a piece of software on her computer to see her Facebook chat logs and learned that she had seen this man 2X in 2 weeks, and that they had been kissing. The chat log showed so much more - promises of trying to get a weekend together. Apparently she said to him "Not Yet". I confronted her, she said its a huge mistake, that she felt so alone, scared, and confused about her friend taking her own life. She said she doesn't really have romantic feelings for him, but that they have a real connection based on similar childhood trauma. They still chat 1 - 2x per day, they see each other with kids present (They both stay at home with the kids) 2x per week, and I am so nervous. She swears I am her one true love, she doesn't care about him that way, etc. Am I being naive to trust her again and allow her to stay friends? Is this the definition of an emotional affair? She swears it is not. I am just confused, and I want to move forward with her.


She has admitted they have connections on certain things.
Which means they are sharing enough information about themselves for it to be at the very least and Emotional affiar.

Fwiw...I wouldnt ever text "just a fried" 150 plus times a day let alone 5. 

:/


----------



## Shaggy

Hockey27 said:


> I was, but I stopped. It made me crazy. I have a tool for getting her facebook logs, but i turned it off. This is so un-like her! Is anyone of the opinion that she may have stopped the inappropriateness, or am I fooling myself?


Wow, you've made a lot of mistakes handling her affair.

1. All contact must end
2. They know you read the messages, so they will keep their hookups hidden. It's likely gone PA shortly after they got over the initial drama of you catching them
3. Tell his wife 
4. Your wife needs to write a no contact letter, or you will file.

You gave blind trust to a woman who was already hooking yo with him and planning full on sex. Then you gave her the ok to continue seeing the guy!


----------



## wiigirl

Shaggy said:


> She's cheating on you.
> 
> Find his wife and tell her that her husband is cheating with you wife.
> 
> You tried the nice confrontation, now it's time to go nuke.
> 
> No contact at all. None.


I am usually not one to say be angry...but...get angry! Thats not alright!








_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

You are fooling yourself. This relationship will soonm bnreak up your marriage. Inform this guy's wife. Have you confronted this piece of sh!t ?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You are being really really naive. Come on, just kissing? Do you not remember dating girls before you met your wife? When was the last time you were alone enough to kiss and didn't escalate it. Not only are you being naive about her affair, you're rug sweeping it and allowing her to be a cake eater by continuing the affair. The only way to start fixing this is to make her cut off 100% of their contact. Make her write a no contact letter. You must also expose everything to the man's wife. By putting him on the hot seat, you will enlist him onto your side (i.e. he'll throw your wife under the bus to save his own marriage). Your wife is treating you like a doormat and you're letting her. Unfortunately this thing can't be fixed until you bust the affair, which hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Hockey27

I am too non-confrontational... Every time we talk about what happend, it always comes back to me. What is wrong with me, and that I did worse to her 10 years ago, and offered no support. She swears she is being open and honest. She looks in my eyes, pledges eternal love, swears she'll never hurt me again, and wants only to be with me. She swears it was a mistake, that she'll never make that mistake again, and that he is only a friend. She hasn't seen him since I caught them without the kids present. It sounds, however, like the general consensus is that I am a fool for trusting her, and that she is at a minimum having an EA. I am 99% sure it is not a PA, but I feel anxious ALL THE TIME. I'm going to counseling this week, but now I am wondering what the point is if she won't go. She gets mad when I bring it up because of all the times in our marriage she asked me to consider it due to my tendency to detach emotionally. Again, it all comes back to me. Is there any chance she is being honest?


----------



## MSC71

stop convincing yourself they are just friends. I don't make out with any of my friends. If she truly loved you, she would stop.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

In any case, she can't swear that it will never happen again. Want to know how to get just about any woman (married or not) to sleep with you? Instigation, escalation, isolation. This man is working a plan on your wife. So far it's working, and nobody (not even you) is standing in his way. Instigation was taken care of long ago. He's already escalated by making out with her multiple times. She's putting up a weak fight by having the kids with her, but very soon he'll succeed at isolating her. At that point she'll have no chance. Her boundaries will crumble and she'll spread her legs for him. All according to plan.

You have a chance to stop this. But the chance won't last forever.


----------



## Caribbean Man

WorkingOnMe said:


> You are being really really naive. Come on, just kissing? Do you not remember dating girls before you met your wife? When was the last time you were alone enough to kiss and didn't escalate it. Not only are you being naive about her affair, you're rug sweeping it and allowing her to be a cake eater by continuing the affair. The only way to start fixing this is to make her cut off 100% of their contact. Make her write a no contact letter. You must also expose everything to the man's wife. By putting him on the hot seat, you will enlist him onto your side (i.e. he'll throw your wife under the bus to save his own marriage).* Your wife is treating you like a doormat and you're letting her. Unfortunately this thing can't be fixed until you bust the affair, which hasn't happened yet.*


:iagree:

You afraid of your wife because of your past actions, and she can smell your fear.
So she is taking advantage of you.
Put you feet down and expose her now.


----------



## warlock07

She is using the guilt of your previous mistakes to continue her relationship with this guy. Even if it is platonic now, it will soon turn emotional and physical. She hjad a chance to keep the relation platonic but she lost it when she started having an affair. Ask her to find other child abuse victims to talk to. She is now facing the consequences for what she did. Tell her you cannot trust her yet, not when she is still talking to her affair partnethat she intended to cheat on the weekend.


Cannot emphasize on how important your stance now is for the marriage. You will lose her anyhow if this continues. Even she claims that the relationship is now platonic, it is still not acceptable. You should also question yourself why you took her back so readily after finding her affair. She likely had the affair because she knows you will forgive her anyhow. She knows she can use your previous affairs as a leverage. That is why she continues to text this guy. She is gradually losing respect and you need to act fast. Him or Me. 

You can also discuss this whole issue b reversing roles. You can argue as your wife and you as her. Both can see where the other is coming from


----------



## Jellybeans

Hockey27 said:


> Yes, the guy is married. I don't think they have done more, and I have continued to monitor facebook / text, so I believe they are just friends now. However, I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop...


But they're NOT just friends. 

She said so herself wen she admitted to kissing him, met with him behind your back and hello, I have NO friend I text 150 days a day. THAT IS INSANE.

You need to find his wife, like someone else said, and NUKE this baby!

You need to tell his wife w/o giving any warning to your wife or this dude beforehand because if you let them k now ahead of time, they are going to get their story sraight and make you out to be the crazy/insecure/jealous husband.

You're getting good advice in here. HEED it. 

Read the book NOT JUST FRIENDS.

:aging Entropy:: (our resident EA expert) 

He will break this down for you really clearly.


----------



## Hockey27

OK, folks, the advice is solid. I'm stunned by how adamantly consistent it is. I believe my wife. I think she believes herself, but everyone's opinion is that I need to "nuke it" and tell her no more contact with this guy, and I need to contact his wife. Do I send her the inflamatory chat log? My wife is going to be so ANGRY if I do that - I always back down to her anger. I need a strategy for her anger and my always weak response.


----------



## Malaise

Hockey27 said:


> I am too non-confrontational... Every time we talk about what happend, it always comes back to me. What is wrong with me, and that I did worse to her 10 years ago, and offered no support. She swears she is being open and honest. She looks in my eyes, pledges eternal love, swears she'll never hurt me again, and wants only to be with me. She swears it was a mistake, that she'll never make that mistake again, and that he is only a friend. She hasn't seen him since I caught them without the kids present. It sounds, however, like the general consensus is that I am a fool for trusting her, and that she is at a minimum having an EA. I am 99% sure it is not a PA, but I feel anxious ALL THE TIME. I'm going to counseling this week, but now I am wondering what the point is if she won't go. She gets mad when I bring it up because of all the times in our marriage she asked me to consider it due to my tendency to detach emotionally. Again, it all comes back to me. Is there any chance she is being honest?


I doubt it, and so do you. Keep investigating. Then nuke 'em


----------



## Jellybeans

Hockey27 said:


> OK, folks, the advice is solid. I'm stunned by how adamantly consistent it is. .


We, at TAM, know "affairs." 



Hockey27 said:


> I believe my wife. I think she believes herself, but everyone's opinion is that I need to "nuke it" and tell her no more contact with this guy, and I need to contact his wife. Do I send her the inflamatory chat log? *My wife is going to be so ANGRY if I do that* - I always back down to her anger. I need a strategy for her anger and my always weak response.


Do you know WHY she is going to be angry? 

Because you are calling her out on her bull. You are nipping her inappropriate relationship in the bud. There isn't a cheater in the world who doesn't get defensive/panicky when the jilted spouse calls them out on the affair/exposes it. 

And ANGER is what you want from her, believe it or not. That just shows she knows it's wrong.

Why do you belive her? She lied to you about meeting up with him, lied to you about being friends, when in fact she admits to cheating.

Re: you always deferring to her/backing down--stop doing that. How you handle this is of utmost importance. You must completely stand your ground and let her know yo uare NOT waivering from your boundary. Do not back down. Follow through with consequences.

She will respect you for it.

She will NOT respect you if you don't stand up to her. Promise.


----------



## warlock07

Talk to OM's wife . offer proof and send it if she requests it. If your wife is angry, so be it. She had no business having affairs with married men. It is his wife who needs to pissed off right now. Your W deserves to be outed to the guy's wife. She is you on the other side of the coin. Wouldn't you want to know if his wife found out first?


----------



## Hockey27

I am going to a counselor on Friday - I will be discussing the advice posted here. I just can't believe this is happening! My wife has not lied to me before, her family (me and our 2 amazing kids) has been the center of her life and happiness, and I believe her when she says the inappropriate crap is over. I have to grow a spine, and I have to confront in a way that makes my stomach churn. Thanks to all, I'll follow up with what I do and how it turns out.


----------



## Shaggy

So who is more angry?

You because your wife was making out with another man and planning a full on sex session

Or

Your wife because you told the truth to someone who has a right to know her husband is cheating?


----------



## Shaggy

While debating I think you should also drop a VAR in her car.


----------



## Hockey27

I have emailed the OM's wife, telling her to investigate. I may get a GPS device as well, but how to pay without the wife knowing? She controls the cash since I was the one who couldn't be trusted back when we started...


----------



## Jellybeans

Get a VAR


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Shaggy said:


> While debating I think you should also drop a VAR in her car.


Yes, this. 

Oh, and how will you feel if you finally muster the courage to confront on Friday only to find out that he closed the deal on Thursday? That's gonna sting, knowing you had a chance to c*ck block this guy and you sat on the fence too long watching the whole thing go down.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Hockey27 said:


> I have emailed the OM's wife, telling her to investigate. I may get a GPS device as well, but how to pay without the wife knowing? She controls the cash since I was the one who couldn't be trusted back when we started...


My last post was before I saw this. Now THIS is a step in the right direction. You're starting to take control. Good job.

Put the GPS on a credit card? Get it someplace like target, not spy's are us.


----------



## MrK

I don't know your wife, but I know men. This affair is still on if he remains her friend.


----------



## Shaggy

Use cash to buy a prepaid visa card, use the visa card to order online the gps tracker.


----------



## Wazza

Hockey, my wife was a thoroughly decent woman just as you describe yours....who carried on an affair for six months over my objections and constantly denying it. And telling me every problem in the marriage was my fault.

It's actually tough for your wife, she's caught on this addictive high. She needs to be pushed to break it. Because otherwise all it takes is a moment of weakness.

You don't need to be aggro or vengeful, but getting it out in the open is the only way to head it off. You have enough proof to act now.


----------



## hotdogs

she's cheating on you and I can't say you don't deserve it.

Tell her to stop and call it even.


----------



## Entropy3000

1) This is well beyond an EA. You may have been too late in discovering this. It appears so now.

2) Your first confronation failed because you were not firm on the boundaries. You needed to tell her this was unacceptable. They needed to go full NC. No friendship. No argument. End of discussion. No negotiating. No compronise. No contact whatsoever. Lose her lover immediately. No good byes except for an NC letter you mail. She needed to go through withdrawal. She would have backslid even with you wathcing but for sure you really dropped the ball when you stopped wacthing. This was your chance to stop the affair I fear. That said it sounds like they were already into the PA.

3) There may not have been penetration yet but I would not bet on that at all. It is a PA none-the-less. An EA is a bunch of feelings and I love yous. Once the kissing and groping starts it is a PA. Escalates pretty quickly to sex.

So you need to decide how you want to approach this.

You either blow this up now and insist on NC as above. Or you wait while you collect more evidence of them having sex. In either case you must continue to collect evidence. 

If it was an EA I would say every hour you do not blow it up is a risk of the PA. EAs escalate in a matter of hours or days once ingnited.

If you wait you will collect that evidence that they are having sex in the near future but you may miss your chance to blow this up and stop it. If you blow it up however, they will attempt to take this underground. Plus you will be gaslighted and told that the PA was just a friendship. So this is a big decision.

1) Blow it up to stop the affair and possibly save the marriage.

2) Monitor to prove the PA so you can divorce. Now what many do is wait for the PA and then react and then reconsile. That is sad if they missed their chance to stop the affair. 

This is a tough one, but it feels like this affair is down the road a bit.

I think MC is a waste of time and money as long as she maintains her lover. Once you blow up the affair, continue to monitor and she goes through withdrawal and she wants the marriage to work then you have a chance.


----------



## TRy

Hockey27 said:


> It sounds, however, like the general consensus is that I am a fool for trusting her, and that she is at a minimum having an EA. I am 99% sure it is not a PA, but I feel anxious ALL THE TIME.


 Stop saying that it is only a EA. She admitted to kissing him that makes it a PA, no ifs, and, or buts about it. They are not in elementary school. They are adults. The truth is if she admitted to kissing him, they did more and you know it which is why you feel anxious all the time. Once they kissed and he asked her to sneak away with him for the weekend, her right to have him as a friend ended forever.



Hockey27 said:


> I'm going to counseling this week, but now I am wondering what the point is if she won't go.


 Do not wait. Act now. You need to see a lawyer not a counselor. Your best chance at saving your marriage is to be willing to end it if she does not cut off all contact with the other man today and agree to full transparency that includes full access to passwords, computers and phones. She may try to call your bluff, so be willing to file. Also, do not argue with her. Tell her that you do not need her permission to do what you know needs to be done. Also, open your own bank account and deposit your pay into that from now on. Pay her what you need to from this account to make sure bills get paid but do not let her hold all the saving. Let her draw from savings to pay bills as you build up your account. Let her draw you into a fight, just do what you know needs to be done and ignore her. 



Hockey27 said:


> Again, it all comes back to me. Is there any chance she is being honest?


 EA, plus kissing, plus talking with another man about sneaking away for a weekend, makes her a cheater. By definition all cheaters lie. All cheaters blame shift where they find reasons to blame their spouse for their cheating. They try to hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. It is a game that you cannot win because as the self appointed judge and jury, they do not want you to win. Do not let her pull this on you. Tell her nothing you have done gives her the right to cheat on you. Again remind her that you do not need her permission to end the marriage if she does not respect you or your marraige.

BTW, why is this in the general relationship section? Have a mod move it to the infidelity section where you will be some additional advice from others.


----------



## Hockey27

So, I talked to her last night, telling her that she was having an EA with the OM, and that if she didn't cut it off cold turkey, she would ruin our marriage. She denied having an EA, told me that she made a huge mistake, but that she wasn't looking for anything more from this guy than friendship. She lost her best friend to suicide on Memorial Day, and he has been a partial replacement for that. She swears she'll never let anything happen again, that her pain, depression and sadness led to her making the mistake she made. She doesn't want to loose another friend and reminded me that I lied to her for four years. She is being completely honest about what happened, and about when she talks to him now, and when they get the kids together for play time. I believe her. I will watch closely, but I believe her when she says it will never cross the line again. Now is where everyone else tells me I'm wrong. I hope I'm not.


----------



## Shaggy

Ok, she's assured you about her plan.

What about his plan?

He also kissed her - he was asking and asking for more sexual contact.

And is she telling you what he is talking to her about. Sorry, but he's had a taste, and he smells blood. Frankly no man would be talking and texting that much if he wasn't getting some PA.


----------



## Shaggy

You should require her to let you see ALL the texts they are sending. She should not be having any secret conversations with him. He isn't a therapist.


----------



## OnTheRocks

Kiss your marriage goodbye.


----------



## Hicks

What you did prior to marriage is completely erased the day she married you. Tell her that if she wants to hold that against you for one more day then she should leave. 

If she cares about her marriage she would easily and willingly agree to drop a friend. The my friend killer herself is just rationalization.


----------



## Shaggy

You made your decision so I'll respect that even if I think it was a mistake.

I will caution you to verify the contact is staying up and up. Read her text messages, be upfront and insist that she doesn't delete them and that you get to read them all. Given her history with him, she's not in a position to argue.

Put a VAR in her car and any other place they might be talking.

Monitor her phone bill like a hawk.

Use the GPS locator on her phone to track where she is.

watch watch watch.

Because I predict this will end badly for you and you need to be in a position to protect yourself.

Remember us here at TAM when you need help with the next confrontation.


----------



## Dan Carruthers

let her not be going about it any more..Stop the cr*p, she is doing..


----------



## FirstYearDown

Wow. Denial is truly not just a river in Egypt!

How can you be sure that your wife is not already sleeping with this man? She has already kissed him and she insists on seeing her OM. 

You may also want to look into IC to work on your self esteem. 

There is no reason why you should tolerate your *wife *dating others *while she is married to you*. Tell your WW that you will divorce her if she does not end her affair and be prepared to follow through. Time to stand up for yourself!


----------



## Feelingdown

Wow, I'm wondering how you have the restriant to not go and punch the guy that kissed your wife, never mind allowing him carry on hanging around with her?


----------



## Dan Carruthers

cast her out, if she does not change


----------



## TRy

"The chat log showed so much more - promises of trying to get a weekend together. Apparently she said to him "Not Yet"". No matter what she says, the guy clearly wants to sleep with your wife and you are OK with them being together? She texts him 150+ times a day and already has kissed her. Your unwillingness to man up and protect your marraige is why the inevitable bad ending will happen and you will have no one to blame but yourself.


----------



## Hockey27

FirstYearDown said:


> How can you be sure that your wife is not already sleeping with this man? She has already kissed him and she insists on seeing her OM.
> 
> Yes - I am sure she has not been alone with him since I found out. I know of the two times they were alone together. I know when the texting started, and I have read their FB chats since it happened. They both express regret for going where they shouldn't, and that their relationship shouldn't have been that. Their chats have been benign.
> 
> You may also want to look into IC to work on your self esteem.
> I go on Friday, thank you, good advice.
> 
> There is no reason why you should tolerate your *wife *dating others *while she is married to you*. Tell your WW that you will divorce her if she does not end her affair and be prepared to follow through. Time to stand up for yourself!


I will not tolerate it. I believe she can be just friends. I am not naive enough to simply trust, I will be monitoring, and if it starts to cross the line, I will call her out and make her end it.


----------



## Hockey27

TRy said:


> "The chat log showed so much more - promises of trying to get a weekend together. Apparently she said to him "Not Yet"". No matter what she says, the guy clearly wants to sleep with your wife and you are OK with them being together? She texts him 150+ times a day and already has kissed her. Your unwillingness to man up and protect your marraige is why the inevitable bad ending will happen and you will have no one to blame but yourself.


They no longer text like that, or even chat that much. She claims it was all an escape from her pain of loosing her best friend of 28 years to a suicide. She has taken responsibility, expressed regret, and I believe in her. I will be watching, and will protect myself, but I have to trust her to move forward.


----------



## dixieangel

I believe your own guilt for your own indiscretions is causing you to be way too nice. Your wife lost his "friendship" because she let it become more. You are going to put yourself through a lot of pain because people here are right..it won't stop. It's hard for you because you are so close to the situation. That's why it's good to ask for opinions from other people who aren't emotionally involved...they can see things more clearly.


----------



## Hockey27

tdwal said:


> Any response from the I'm wife?


None whatsoever... I believe they are on vacation, and that she is flying to California tomorrow for a job interview. I do hope she gets the position and they move!


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

You should've insisted on zero contact from the very beginning and taken whatever steps necessary to speak with the OM wife. How in the world you could be such a doormat that you allow your wife to keep in contact with some guy she kissed and who she was clearly looking to have sex with it beyond me.


----------



## WhereAmI

You are going to regret allowing this to continue. Your wife is aware that her "friendship" with this man makes you uncomfortable, but she insists on still being his "friend." She would rather you be stressed about it than give him up. Doesn't that speak to how much he means to her? You say she expressed regret, but she definitely has not yet expressed remorse. She should want to make you comfortable after her affair, yet she's not willing to do the one thing that would assure you that the affair is over. Please stop being a doormat before it's too late.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anonim

Hockey27 said:


> I was, but I stopped. It made me crazy. I have a tool for getting her facebook logs, but i turned it off. This is so un-like her! Is anyone of the opinion that she may have stopped the inappropriateness, or am I fooling myself?


how is this unlike her, if she is doing these things? This IS her. This is the her you do not know. What you have is an image of her and as long as you have this image of her (as opposed to the real her) you will be unable to take action because of the conflict of what she is and who you see her as will paralyze you.


----------



## Dan Carruthers

*For The TS*

*"Wisdom is to know, when to be Generous and when to be Firm.." !!!
*


----------



## Hicks

You should tell your wife that you are going to call the girl you had inappropriate relations with 18 years ago and strike up a friendship. By her logic, this should be allowed no problem.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

If they're still contacting each other the affair is still going on. Blow the thing up. Speak to his wife and then make it clear to him he needs to get out of your relationship with your wife. Speaking to his wife and presenting her with the evidence you have will go along way in blowing things up though.


----------



## Hockey27

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> You should've insisted on zero contact from the very beginning and taken whatever steps necessary to speak with the OM wife. How in the world you could be such a doormat that you allow your wife to keep in contact with some guy she kissed and who she was clearly looking to have sex with it beyond me.


Taken out of the context of my life, I am a doormat. I have some issues there, for certain. However, this is so out of character for her, I understand the factors that led to her mistake, and I believe in her. There is no excuse for kissing him, but it was a one time mistake, not a pattern of behavior. She does not let people in, she does not open up, and to loose the one person besides me that she trusted, to a suicide no less, sent her spiraling, and I was not emotionally present for her. It is not my fault, but it is a contributing factor to her mistake. She assures me it will never happen again, and I believe her. I also know better than to ignore the chance that I am wrong. I will know if she starts down that road, and if that happens, I will either leave her or give her an ultimatum, but I don't expect we'll end up there.


----------



## earlyforties

Hockey27 said:


> I will know if she starts down that road, and if that happens, I will either leave her or give her an ultimatum, but I don't expect we'll end up there.


Carry on like this and 'there' will arrive on page 14ish I'd say. You must listen to the advice given and read similar TAM stories - yours is sounding identical to so many other WW threads.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Hockey27 said:


> Taken out of the context of my life, I am a doormat. I have some issues there, for certain. However, this is so out of character for her, I understand the factors that led to her mistake, and I believe in her. There is no excuse for kissing him, but it was a one time mistake, not a pattern of behavior. She does not let people in, she does not open up, and to loose the one person besides me that she trusted, to a suicide no less, sent her spiraling, and I was not emotionally present for her. It is not my fault, but it is a contributing factor to her mistake. She assures me it will never happen again, and I believe her. I also know better than to ignore the chance that I am wrong. I will know if she starts down that road, and if that happens, I will either leave her or give her an ultimatum, but I don't expect we'll end up there.


Either take the steps to end this affair your wife is having or things are only going to get worse. If they're still in contact it's not over and that's unacceptable. If you're going to be able to move forward your relationship doesn't involve this guy. Case closed and end of story.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

tdwal said:


> She ended this so called friendship the moment she kissed him it became an affair. Please don't go passive and let thus ruin your life. Stop her now. Demand NC.


Correct this is not a friend it's an affair partner. The stay friends portion of this is laughable. I mean seriously you cannot be naive enough to allow this to go on.


----------



## warlock07

Hockey27 said:


> So, I talked to her last night, telling her that she was having an EA with the OM, and that if she didn't cut it off cold turkey, she would ruin our marriage. She denied having an EA, told me that she made a huge mistake, but that she wasn't looking for anything more from this guy than friendship. She lost her best friend to suicide on Memorial Day, and he has been a partial replacement for that. She swears she'll never let anything happen again, that her pain, depression and sadness led to her making the mistake she made. She doesn't want to loose another friend and reminded me that I lied to her for four years. She is being completely honest about what happened, and about when she talks to him now, and when they get the kids together for play time. I believe her. I will watch closely, but I believe her when she says it will never cross the line again. Now is where everyone else tells me I'm wrong. I hope I'm not.


Don't be misled to think that you are now allowing her to continue friendship with this man. You have no other option but to agree with her.

You know she will chose the friendship over the marriage if it comes to it. That should say enough about the friendship(?) they have. Ask her if she would agree if you would refriend your ex cheating partners now with the promise you won't cheat again? Remember, she got caught!! She might well as think that she can lie as much as you did.

Remember these words. Your marriage will end shortly and this is the beginning of the end.

I remember a story where a woman who used her H's previous infidelity to control him severely only for him to find out that she was using his guilt to conduct her own affairs


----------



## Hicks

You are trying to make her happy and give her what she wants. That is normal in a marriage. That is the pull you are feeling. But this is one of those things you cannot give to your wife. Every day you will live wondering is this the day they decided to go physical again. No one can be happy in a marriage that lacks basic security. Plus, regardless of what you think you are telling your wife, what she is hearing is Hockey does not mind if I do this.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

As sad as it is I doubt she was kissing and setting up possible sex dates with the best friend that she lost. This was not a partial replacement for a lost friend. This is an affair partner and their contact needs to stop if she wants to continue to have a relationship with you.


----------



## Hockey27

warlock07 said:


> Remember these words. Your marriage will end shortly and this is the beginning of the end.


My head hears, I am concerned, but when I talk to her, when she looks into my eyes and tells me how sorry she is for hurting me, and promises to never put me through that again, I can't help but believe her. I know her tell, and I know when she is lying. I'm not stupid, I know she believes it will never happen again, and I also know that while she doesn't intend on letting her relationship with the OM become inappropriate, I know it can do so quickly. I am giving her time and a sense of security to see what she does.

You are right in that I am afraid she'd choose her "friendship" over me should I make an ultimatum. She gets one more chance and enough rope to hang herself. Once the kids are in school (he home schools his kids, we have a pre-schooler, so its not like they'll both have time on their hands) I will re-install the software to capture their chats, and find out what path she has chosen. I hope you are wrong, but I concede the possibility that this is the end of the line for us. I'll be ready.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Hockey27 said:


> My head hears, I am concerned, but when I talk to her, when she looks into my eyes and tells me how sorry she is for hurting me, and promises to never put me through that again, I can't help but believe her. I know her tell, and I know when she is lying. I'm not stupid, I know she believes it will never happen again, and I also know that while she doesn't intend on letting her relationship with the OM become inappropriate, I know it can do so quickly. I am giving her time and a sense of security to see what she does.
> 
> You are right in that I am afraid she'd choose her "friendship" over me should I make an ultimatum. She gets one more chance and enough rope to hang herself. Once the kids are in school (he home schools his kids, we have a pre-schooler, so its not like they'll both have time on their hands) I will re-install the software to capture their chats, and find out what path she has chosen. I hope you are wrong, but I concede the possibility that this is the end of the line for us. I'll be ready.


What you have to keep in mind is everyone here has been there and done that. Even read hundreds of the same stories on these boards. You lets see what happens trusting attitude towards this honestly leads me to believe your relationship will be done with very soon.


----------



## Hockey27

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> What you have to keep in mind is everyone here has been there and done that. Even read hundreds of the same stories on these boards. You lets see what happens trusting attitude towards this honestly leads me to believe your relationship will be done with very soon.


Are there any stories where a trusting spouse gives a WW a chance and doesn't regret it?


----------



## Wazza

The thing is, by drawing a line now you could save things.


----------



## Wazza

Hockey27 said:


> Are there any stories where a trusting spouse gives a WW a chance and doesn't regret it?


At some stage you have to give that trust. Right now she is not in a place where she can trust herself.


----------



## warlock07

Hockey27 said:


> My head hears, I am concerned, but when I talk to her, when she looks into my eyes and tells me how sorry she is for hurting me, and promises to never put me through that again, I can't help but believe her. I know her tell, and I know when she is lying. I'm not stupid, I know she believes it will never happen again, and I also know that while she doesn't intend on letting her relationship with the OM become inappropriate, I know it can do so quickly. I am giving her time and a sense of security to see what she does.
> 
> You are right in that I am afraid she'd choose her "friendship" over me should I make an ultimatum. She gets one more chance and enough rope to hang herself. Once the kids are in school (he home schools his kids, we have a pre-schooler, so its not like they'll both have time on their hands) I will re-install the software to capture their chats, and find out what path she has chosen. I hope you are wrong, but I concede the possibility that this is the end of the line for us. I'll be ready.


Tell her that you don't trust her now. Ask her to re-earn the trust after breaking it and getting caught. She did not confess. Big point there (How long did it take her to trust you back after your affairs. Did you bring up how she would feel like if you reinitiated your friendship with your ex- affair partners soon after your D-day ?)

The fact she is about to endanger your relationship to continue just speaking to this guy should tell both of you enough about their relationship. This is not just friendship. It will develop further. Have you confronted this guy? Tell his W/Gf/parents/workplace etc etc.

Here is how it works. Give her a boundary. If she cannot do that, start the 180 and prepare for divorce. File for it when you are mentally prepared for it. The path you are taking will lead you to more pain. There is a limit on how much you can snoop. They will just avoid FB, mail or anything that will have a record. Maybe she will get a burner phone. There are even meeting in person. Her serious lack of empathy will be a big hurdle for repairing your marriage


----------



## TRy

Hockey27 said:


> I'm not stupid, I know she believes it will never happen again, and I also know that while she doesn't intend on letting her relationship with the OM become inappropriate, I know it can do so quickly.


 She does not intend to cheat, but you are allowing a situation that will lead to cheating. If you read "His Needs, Her Needs" you will see that the top needs for men and women are different. For men sex is the number one need, where sex does not make the top list for women. For women conversation is a top need, yet for men it is not on the top list. This other man (OM) openly told your wife that he wants to sleep with her. He knows that to do so he needs to meet her need of conversation to earn that right. When he first asked to sleep with her, she did not say no, she said "not yet". If she said "no never" she was afraid that he would stop meeting her need for conversation so she is leading him on with "not yet"; this definitely implies she will sleep with him later if he keeps meeting her needs. There will come a day went she is weak after you have done something to make her mad (you are human so it will happen) where he will call in the chips and want sex. When that day comes she will be faced with losing him and will even feel that she owes him the sex; he will tell her that she led him on and she will know that she did and will have sex with him not to break her trust with him. This is all human nature. Your wife and you are not immune to this, that is why you must put a stop to this.



Hockey27 said:


> You are right in that I am afraid she'd choose her "friendship" over me should I make an ultimatum.


 The odds do not get better as you allow it to go on, they only get worse. Putting your head in the sand does not make it go away. You both know that your request for her to stop all contact with the other man (OM) was a reasonable request, yet she got you to back down; she lost a little respect for you when you did. Going forward, every day that you let this go on, she will lose a little more respect for you. Eventually she will lose all respect for you and a woman cannot love a man that she does not respect. Again the odds do not get better. Make your stand now. If she picks the other man, then it was too late and you never had a chance long term anyway. Better to know now and to go out with dignity and self respect.

One more thing. Stop calling it a friendship. It makes you look foolish. Read "Not Just Friends" ASAP. It will help you understand.


----------



## Shaggy

Get her a copy of not just friends by Shirley Glass to read.

Honestly the fact that the OM was openly begging her for sex and didn't telling off.

Asi suggested openly read her texts with him. Let her knw you are watching.

If she calls you controlling, without blinking tell her No, you do not trust this relationship and that she is choosing to have it without regard for her husbands feelings.

You asked about other WW and allowing continued contact. No,I have only heard the same result everytime when a WS is allowed continued contact with the AP -they cheat again.

You should expect the I Love You, But I'm Not In Love With You speech in the near future.


----------



## warlock07

Hockey27 said:


> Are there any stories where a trusting spouse gives a WW a chance and doesn't regret it?


Evry successful R had NC as a minimum requirement


----------



## WorkingOnMe

warlock07 said:


> Evry successful R had NC as a minimum requirement


Yup. Not possible to fix this while she maintains contact. So, is that sand your head is in warm?


----------



## Writer

Hockey27 said:


> Are there any stories where a trusting spouse gives a WW a chance and doesn't regret it?


I trust my husband, now. I used to periodically check up on him when he had an EA with a friend from a successful multiplayer game. 

Now, I don't check as much. I still do on occasion. I don't regret trusting him because he proved he could be trusted. However, I know he could fall back at any moment. He proved to be untrustworthy before.

Oh, and the difference between my situation and yours, my husband had to go completely NC with the other woman. It involved leaving the game over it. He shown me remorse. I don't really see any from your wife. Judge her actions and not words. Tears are easily faked.

Yes, it is tragic that her friend committed suicide. However, if this friendship is making you uncomfortable (and it should), then she should end it. The fact that she doesn't (and is guilt tripping you to stay in it) says much.

An affair is like a drug addiction. With each text, or however they are communicating, she is getting her high from it. I predict you will find more evidence soon.


----------



## Posse

Hockey27 said:


> You are right in that I am afraid she'd choose her "friendship" over me should I make an ultimatum.


She is lying to you about the relationship. He is not just a friend.

Expect her to go covert with her contact with him and start utilizing alternative means.

If her affair (it is not a friendship) with her other man is more important to her than your feelings and concerns, your marriage is dead already. 

Three people in a marriage doesn't work.

You are going to regret not manning up and saying, "Him or me. You choose now."


----------



## Wazza

warlock07 said:


> Evry successful R had NC as a minimum requirement


Mine didn't. I tried and was refused. The OM was one of her teachers at college and ending it would have ended her study.

That doesn't make it any easier when she's going out, dressing down but smuggling out good clothes so she can dress up for him, and lying about where she's going or who will be there.

I would say more the affair ended and she came back. I have no idea how common that is. I can only think of one other couple I know where an uncontrolled affair didn't lead to divorce, either quickly or slowly.

I think the thing I struggled with, and you may be too Hockey, is the knowledge of how out of character this was for her. Yet she did it. For six months she did it.


----------



## warlock07

Wazza said:


> Mine didn't. I tried and was refused. The OM was one of her teachers at college and ending it would have ended her study.
> 
> That doesn't make it any easier when she's going out, dressing down but smuggling out good clothes so she can dress up for him, and lying about where she's going or who will be there.
> 
> I would say more the affair ended and she came back. I have no idea how common that is. I can only think of one other couple I know where an uncontrolled affair didn't lead to divorce, either quickly or slowly.


I think you put up with a lot to have her back. Basically you waited out the affair and was happy to have her back. Many would find this extremely humiliating and unbearable


----------



## Wazza

warlock07 said:


> I think you put up with a lot to have her back. Basically you waited out the affair and was happy to have her back. Many would find this extremely humiliating and unbearable


Pretty much, though I wasn't waiting I was fighting. 

Keep in mind, I had written off any hope of affection when it ended and I was staying for the children. That we rebuilt things is at least partly dumb luck.

If I were Hockey I would demand no contact.


----------



## Shaggy

Wazza said:


> Mine didn't. I tried and was refused. The OM was one of her teachers at college and ending it would have ended her study.
> 
> That doesn't make it any easier when she's going out, dressing down but smuggling out good clothes so she can dress up for him, and lying about where she's going or who will be there.
> 
> I would say more the affair ended and she came back. I have no idea how common that is. I can only think of one other couple I know where an uncontrolled affair didn't lead to divorce, either quickly or slowly.
> 
> I think the thing I struggled with, and you may be too Hockey, is the knowledge of how out of character this was for her. Yet she did it. For six months she did it.


Wait so your solution was to let her continue cheating and wait until she chose to stop?

And how in her eyes did/does she see you? I imagine she lost a lot of respect for you as a result.

Are you together still? Has she fully stopped cheating?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I hope everyone realizes that this is not what he meant by an example of "successful" reconciliation with continued contact. Lol


----------



## the guy

I think trust but verify is a good approach. Give her the rope cuz in the long run you can't control her,it will be up to her to have the boundries to affair proof the marriage and if she can't then you can walk away knowing you tried. We all hope she does not hang her self.

I would think at the very least your wife got a good hard spanking for her behavior, but thats just me, I'm wired different then most.


As far as my fWW goes I didn't give her the blinding trust, but trust but verify and she past the test.


----------



## Wazza

Shaggy said:


> Wait so your solution was to let her continue cheating and wait until she chose to stop?
> 
> And how in her eyes did/does she see you? I imagine she lost a lot of respect for you as a result.
> 
> Are you together still? Has she fully stopped cheating?


Shaggy, it was not a solution. I did not let her. I asked her to stop, several times, often forcefully, and she refused.She cheated, she lied. It was horrible, and did damage that can never be totally undone.

You and I see this very differently, judging by our posts. You sometimes seem like you would take a VAR to the toilet in case your farts say something incriminating.  I say there is a time for vigilance, but also in the end you have to turn around and trust again, which is very hard.

We are still together. The affair was over twenty years ago. She respects me now. She didn't always. She hated me at the time of the affair. And there have been moments...not long times, but moments....where I hated her. We got over it.



WorkingOnMe said:


> I hope everyone realizes that this is not what he meant by an example of "successful" reconciliation with continued contact. Lol


I will assume that was aimed at me. And twenty two years I count as a successful reconciliation. But I was not saying "let it go". read my other posts on this thread, I clearly think Hockey's marriage is in danger and confrontation is needed. I posted in response to a specific statement from Warlock and offered a specific detail. It is not one Hockey should draw comfort from.


----------



## Wazza

the guy said:


> I think trust but verify is a good approach. Give her the rope cuz in the long run you can't control her,it will be up to her to have the boundries to affair proof the marriage and if she can't then you can walk away knowing you tried. We all hope she does not hang her self.
> 
> I would think at the very least your wife got a good hard spanking for her behavior, but thats just me, I'm wired different then most.
> 
> 
> As far as my fWW goes I didn't give her the blinding trust, but trust but verify and she past the test.


I agree totally with this once she is out of the fog. While she is in the fog, Hockey's job AS A FRIEND is to support her when she is in danger of making a horrible mistake which will damage both their lives.


----------



## seasalt

I truly don't understand how you could want to be in a marriage with someone that you have been with for 18 years where you are worried that she will choose a freindship with someone she recently met at a swimming pool instead of you.

Mind boggling!


----------



## FirstYearDown

The OP is stubbornly clinging to the idea of his WW being faithful. Nothing we can do about that except be supportive when she leaves to be with her OW or when he catches them in bed together. Maybe more drastic events are needed to pull the OP out of denial.

I know that if I dared to try the same sh!t with my husband, divorce papers would have been served the minute he found out about the kiss. We have a zero tolerance policy on cheating in our marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

Hockey27 said:


> So, I talked to her last night, telling her that she was having an EA with the OM, and that if she didn't cut it off cold turkey, she would ruin our marriage. She denied having an EA, told me that she made a huge mistake, but that she wasn't looking for anything more from this guy than friendship. She lost her best friend to suicide on Memorial Day, and he has been a partial replacement for that. She swears she'll never let anything happen again, that her pain, depression and sadness led to her making the mistake she made. She doesn't want to loose another friend and reminded me that I lied to her for four years. She is being completely honest about what happened, and about when she talks to him now, and when they get the kids together for play time. I believe her. I will watch closely, but I believe her when she says it will never cross the line again. Now is where everyone else tells me I'm wrong. I hope I'm not.


So she pleaded to keep her lover.

You worded this wrong. You told her she is going to ruin the marriage.

What you were supposed to say:

Was that this friendship is unacceptable to you and that she must go immediate NC. All that other stuff does not matter. Stay on message and follow through.

I am telling you that you cannot reason with someone under the influence of the brain chemicals as she is. The only way to reach them is early and with an extreme consequence immediately. Other wise they try to weasel out of things. Like she is.

You have to follow through or she is lost.


----------



## Entropy3000

Hockey27 said:


> I will not tolerate it. *I believe she can be just friends*. I am not naive enough to simply trust, I will be monitoring, and if it starts to cross the line, I will call her out and make her end it.


With all due respect this is the most absurd thing I have read on here in a long time. 

You have a wife in an affair. And you are ok with this.

So you are ok with an open marriage.

Good luck my friend. You could not make a worse decision unless you are enjpoying her relationship with this OM.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying to decide whether Darwin will take effect or whether this has been the old bait and switch ... again.


----------



## Wazza

Hockey27 said:


> I will not tolerate it. I believe she can be just friends. I am not naive enough to simply trust, I will be monitoring, and if it starts to cross the line, I will call her out and make her end it.


OK, let's examine this. How will you monitor it?

Spend some time going through the infidelity threads and understand the sorts of tricks someone gets up to in an affair. 

How will you make sure she is not calling him? Maybe on a different phone? Emailing him? Maybe from a secret account, and maybe including racy pictures? How will you know what they do when they are together? How will you know that she is where she tells you she is at any time? 

I'm not trying to make you paranoid. I'm telling you, from personal experience, that by the time you find out you were wrong to trust her the deed is already done. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

She has kissed this man and wants to spend time with him. She is already in inappropriate territory...basically in the early stages of an affair. You are doing nothing to hinder it's progression. And she isn't pulling back, she is going further in.

You are more likely to save things by tough action.

I know where you are at, I've been there and it hurts. But it's going to hurt a lot worse pretty shortly if things progress. Do you want to hear:

"He makes me feel sexually alive in a way you never did."
"I love you but I'm not in love with you. The passion's gone".
"All that is wrong in our marriage is your fault".

If I read you correctly, that is what is likely coming, because she is in a relationship fog and being allowed to go deeper.

Read this link and see if you can recognise any of it in your spouse. The chances are you are entering Stage 2 based on what you have told us.

Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity 

Sorry, not trying to give you a hard time. Trying to help.

P.S. During better times did your wife and you ever get the kids playing nicely or settled in front of the TV then go into another room for a quickie?


----------



## Entropy3000

I wonder where the boundary is? He will watch that she does not cross boundaries?

Inappropriate -- Having this relationship with this guy period.

Unfaithful -- Planning to meet this OM to escalate their relationship

Cheating -- Kissing and planning to escalate the relationship.


Instigation, Isolation, Escalation.

She is already cheating. If you define cheating as just penetration then it is hard to tell. But that is what the getting together is for.

The logic misses the whole point of EAs in particualr. You can sift through communications of folks in EAs and you may be hard pressed to see something that cannot be explained away until you step back and see it in its aggregation.

But the kiss and the planning to meet take this beyond an EA.

Can they be together alone? Is this ok with you? Can they go out on dates together? Can she go on trips without you and you trust that he will not find his way to her?

Ask yourself when a woman puts another man ahead of her own marriage ... why? Why would she risk her marriage for her OM?.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> OK, let's examine this. How will you monitor it?
> 
> Spend some time going through the infidelity threads and understand the sorts of tricks someone gets up to in an affair.
> 
> How will you make sure she is not calling him? Maybe on a different phone? Emailing him? Maybe from a secret account, and maybe including racy pictures? How will you know what they do when they are together? How will you know that she is where she tells you she is at any time?
> 
> I'm not trying to make you paranoid. I'm telling you, from personal experience, that by the time you find out you were wrong to trust her the deed is already done. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
> 
> She has kissed this man and wants to spend time with him. She is already in inappropriate territory...basically in the early stages of an affair. You are doing nothing to hinder it's progression. And she isn't pulling back, she is going further in.
> 
> You are more likely to save things by tough action.
> 
> I know where you are at, I've been there and it hurts. But it's going to hurt a lot worse pretty shortly if things progress. Do you want to hear:
> 
> "He makes me feel sexually alive in a way you never did."
> "I love you but I'm not in love with you. The passion's gone".
> "All that is wrong in our marriage is your fault".
> 
> If I read you correctly, that is what is likely coming, because she is in a relationship fog and being allowed to go deeper.
> 
> Read this link and see if you can recognise any of it in your spouse. The chances are you are entering Stage 2 based on what you have told us.
> 
> Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity
> 
> Sorry, not trying to give you a hard time. Trying to help.
> 
> P.S. During better times did your wife and you ever get the kids playing nicely or settled in front of the TV then go into another room for a quickie?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Hockey27

Wazza said:


> Read this link and see if you can recognise any of it in your spouse. The chances are you are entering Stage 2 based on what you have told us.
> 
> Infidelity, Cheating Wives - Women's Infidelity
> 
> P.S. During better times did your wife and you ever get the kids playing nicely or settled in front of the TV then go into another room for a quickie?


We don't fit the stages listed here. She is feeling guilt over what she did, I see her questioning her identity as a good girl, and struggling to understand what she did. Based on the evidence I have collected, she has seen him twice without kids. Their chat log showed they kissed, and I agree with others on this, they groped and felt each other. This is PA, I'm not stupid. She has ended the PA, but the EA is there. I'm getting to the point of making an ultimatum, but I need to be prepared for her reaction and my own issues of self-worth / guilt over treating her like **** for the first 5 years. At any rate, the sex in our marriage has never suffered. She shows affection better than I do, she initiates sex more than I do, and I am trying to get better about this. She has not lost interest in sex with me, and apart from her 3 weeks of lying / cheating, she has been honest with me, and begging me to stay more emotionally connected to her for years. I'm listening to all the advice here, and I am working on getting the balls to demand a NC. Her computer activity, all of it, is logged - I know who she is texting, and unless she gets another phone, I feel pretty sure I can monitor. I know who she is with at all times, and I know where she is going. I will be vigilant, but I know I am taking a huge risk. I guess I am doing so because she trusted me when I didn't deserve it, she stuck with me when I was lying for FIVE YEARS, and in the last month since they kissed, she has not lied to me. She tells me when they chat, she offers to let me read the logs, she tells me when she sends him a text. If she lies again, I will demand the NC. I know it is a risk, but I am too much of a non-confrontational coward and I have no confidence that I can make the demand and back it up.


----------



## Shaggy

Meanwhile have her read the Not Just Friends book so she can maybe even see for herself how messed up this is.


----------



## Hockey27

Shaggy said:


> Meanwhile have her read the Not Just Friends book so she can maybe even see for herself how messed up this is.


Thank you, I am buying the book on line now.


----------



## Shaggy

In all of this is the OMW - she doesn't know that allowing her husband to talk to your wife has such high risk. 

she really really needs to know, especially since you are allowing continued contact.


----------



## Hockey27

Shaggy said:


> In all of this is the OMW - she doesn't know that allowing her husband to talk to your wife has such high risk.
> 
> she really really needs to know, especially since you are allowing continued contact.


I emailed her to let her know that her husband and my wife were in constant contact, and that I didn't trust their relationship. I gave her some specifics, but haven't sent her the DDay log yet. She has a job interview in CA (I know from the logs, have only spoken to her once at the ice rink - our kids have overlapping lessons) this week, and I want her to get the job! Next week, if I get the cahones.


----------



## Shaggy

So your wife has said she'd play by rules with him - but what about his side of the story? He was pushing her for all out sex, and not being subtle about it. Does he know and agree not to pursue her?


----------



## Hockey27

Shaggy said:


> So your wife has said she'd play by rules with him - but what about his side of the story? He was pushing her for all out sex, and not being subtle about it. Does he know and agree not to pursue her?


He has said they were making a huge mistake, that their relationship should be just friends, and he has made no hints about trying to isolate her. Not that I trust him, they both know I have the ability to record everything she does on the computer, but as far as I can tell, neither has initiated more inappropriate behavior. I don't think he tells his wife how often they chat, but hopefully my email will change that.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

If she wants to be such good friends why not make her see him with you ard his wife around? Invite them both to BBQ on Saturday or something. Don't let yourself be excluded.


----------



## WhereAmI

Hockey27 said:


> He has said they were making a huge mistake, that their relationship should be just friends, and he has made no hints about trying to isolate her. Not that I trust him, they both know I have the ability to record everything she does on the computer, but as far as I can tell, neither has initiated more inappropriate behavior. I don't think he tells his wife how often they chat, but hopefully my email will change that.


Translation:"I'm really a good guy. I'm trying to resist you!" 

Future conversation: "We've tried so hard to resist this, but clearly it's meant to be. This is REAL and not like your average affair!" 

It is ALL part of the game. It seems like you're trying to find ways to make this less than it is. It's completely understandable, but I worry that you're going to give her too much leeway if even you can find reasons to say it's not as bad as you think.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I have a female friend who I climb and bike with. I also bike with her husband. My wife is always invited. Sometimes I have to really push her to come along.


----------



## TDSC60

Hockey27 said:


> He has said they were making a huge mistake, that their relationship should be just friends, and he has made no hints about trying to isolate her. Not that I trust him, *they both know I have the ability to record everything she does on the computer*, but as far as I can tell, neither has initiated more inappropriate behavior. I don't think he tells his wife how often they chat, but hopefully my email will change that.


That you are non-confrontational is the understatement of the year, or maybe the decade.

If they both know how you are monitoring their communication, then of course they are going to avoid any inappropriate conversations where they know you are looking!

If you allow ANY contact with this man who begged your wife for a weekend sex session you are asking for trouble. Plus her answer was " not yet". Meaning that it she was preparing for it. 

So you are OK with your wife continuing to interact with a man who begged her for sex and she was considering doing it with him?

Paint the big red bulls-eye on your back now. The knife is coming.

I hope your IC can open your eyes.


----------



## completely_lost

Hockey27 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 8 years, together for 18. During the first 4 years of our relationship, I kissed two other women, and had an inappropriate relationship with one of those two women and continuously lied about it. I don't behave that way any more, but the damage was done. Recently, my wife lost her best (female) friend, and has been really struggling. Unfortunately, I wasn't as tuned in to her as I should have been. She started talking to another man she met at our kids' swimming lessons. One day, after she suspiciously changed our text / data plan (she normally has me make those changes) I checked the logs and found she was texting this person 150+ times per day. I confronted her, she swore it was friendship only, and that it would stop. After two weeks of quietly suspicious behavior, I put a piece of software on her computer to see her Facebook chat logs and learned that she had seen this man 2X in 2 weeks, and that they had been kissing. The chat log showed so much more - promises of trying to get a weekend together. Apparently she said to him "Not Yet". I confronted her, she said its a huge mistake, that she felt so alone, scared, and confused about her friend taking her own life. She said she doesn't really have romantic feelings for him, but that they have a real connection based on similar childhood trauma. They still chat 1 - 2x per day, they see each other with kids present (They both stay at home with the kids) 2x per week, and I am so nervous. She swears I am her one true love, she doesn't care about him that way, etc. Am I being naive to trust her again and allow her to stay friends? Is this the definition of an emotional affair? She swears it is not. I am just confused, and I want to move forward with her.


No your not being naive all the signs are there. Don't be like most of us bs who give chance after chance and end up looking like a fool. There's nothing wrong with men and woman being friends but when they feel the need to keep it secret you know something's up. Tell his wife and blow the whole thing out of the water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hockey27

The OM's wife just asked about their relationship... I did not share that the two of them had kissed, just that they have been talking a whole lot on Facebook. I'm keeping my nuclear bomb for now, trying to let my WW prove that she is going to be true to me. All the advice here says otherwise, but I have to give her one chance to save the relationship. I put it in her hands, have made it clear that I am not OK with them being "friends" - she chooses to be friends over making me comfortable. This may be the beginning of the end, but part of me wants so badly to believe in her. Part of me knows I have this coming based on what an A-H I was, and that I have failed her so many other times in regards to emotional connection. I'm sure that's why I fail to demand NC - I don't feel I have the right to demand anything. I have to change that but don't know how.


----------



## Gabriel

Cheaters lie. She is saying stuff to you that you are believing. You shouldn't.

Remember when you were cheating? Did you reassure your wife and let her believe you?

Bottom line is your W will do whatever she can to keep the relatiionship going, even if it is just an EA, including placating your concerns with lies.

You have said "if the chats are inappropriate, I will demand NC". THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE. What more do you need?

You are making a monumental mistake.


----------



## TDSC60

Hockey27 said:


> The OM's wife just asked about their relationship... I did not share that the two of them had kissed, just that they have been talking a whole lot on Facebook. I'm keeping my nuclear bomb for now, trying to let my WW prove that she is going to be true to me. All the advice here says otherwise, but I have to give her one chance to save the relationship. I put it in her hands, have made it clear that I am not OK with them being "friends" - she chooses to be friends over making me comfortable. This may be the beginning of the end, but part of me wants so badly to believe in her. Part of me knows I have this coming based on what an A-H I was, and that I have failed her so many other times in regards to emotional connection. I'm sure that's why I fail to demand NC - I don't feel I have the right to demand anything. I have to change that but don't know how.


If OMW has asked - then you owe her the truth! Do not hide things from her! Anything short of the truth makes YOU an enabler of the affair.


----------



## Gabriel

Congrats on telling his wife, but you haven't done it quite well enough. I'm not saying you have to share the chat logs at this point. But you can't just say, "they've been talking a lot on FB". You need to tell her that you saw some inappropriate communication between them, and then encourage her to approach her husband about it.

It will be interesting to see what her husband says. My guess is he will deny anything untoward is going on. If the OMW says this to you, then you drop the bomb.


----------



## WhereAmI

Hockey27 said:


> The OM's wife just asked about their relationship... I did not share that the two of them had kissed, just that they have been talking a whole lot on Facebook. I'm keeping my nuclear bomb for now, trying to let my WW prove that she is going to be true to me. All the advice here says otherwise, but I have to give her one chance to save the relationship. I put it in her hands, have made it clear that I am not OK with them being "friends" - she chooses to be friends over making me comfortable. This may be the beginning of the end, but part of me wants so badly to believe in her. Part of me knows I have this coming based on what an A-H I was, and that I have failed her so many other times in regards to emotional connection. I'm sure that's why I fail to demand NC - I don't feel I have the right to demand anything. I have to change that but don't know how.


You need someone to shake some sense into you. Literally. Go find someone and ask them to shake you. Maybe add a little slap at the end for good measure.

You are as deep in the fog as she is. Having an axxhole spouse doesn't give one free reign to cheat. If it did, you'd be cheating right now. She is no saint, my friend.


----------



## Hockey27

TDSC60 said:


> If OMW has asked - then you owe her the truth! Do not hide things from her! Anything short of the truth makes YOU an enabler of the affair.


She didn't - I emailed her out of the blue. She has not replied.


----------



## WhereAmI

By not revealing the kiss you've given her H the option to paint you as a crazy, jealous spouse. Once you DO reveal the kiss, he'll have it implanted in her head that you're out of your mind and making things up. Big mistake.


----------



## Hockey27

WhereAmI said:


> By not revealing the kiss you've given her H the option to paint you as a crazy, jealous spouse. Once you DO reveal the kiss, he'll have it implanted in her head that you're out of your mind and making things up. Big mistake.


Would be, except I have the facebook chat log from the day after. I don't want to explode her world yet - I want her to get the job in CA first. Also, need to address my lack of cahones and be prepared to back up my actions.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

What is happening to the self respect of the OP?

She cheated him with this guy and he allowed her to be friends with him again.REALLY?

He is afraid that she will choose her OM over him, what kind of marriage do you have? What kind of a wife you have to choose OM over you? Your fear of this itself says many things.

Usually cheaters TT, I dont know when BSs started to trickle truth OMW.


----------



## SoulStorm

Hockey,

I'm not one to be really hard on people, but you're being cuckolded.
She charms you with her "convincing" wiles. Looking in your eyes and being all loving. Then she still gets to cake eat and spend quality time with her "boyfriend" at the playground with the kids.
How do you know they don't communicate through other means.
You don't know if it was just a kiss.
Your wife has pulled the wool over your eyes while you continue to gather info.
You are not doing what you did 5 years ago. You have changed form that. You can't let that be the reason that you let your wife have a boyfriend.

Release the beta and go grab the Alpha.


----------



## badbane

Hockey27 said:


> Are there any stories where a trusting spouse gives a WW a chance and doesn't regret it?


YEs then a few days, months, weeks, years there is a new thread. I was so stupid I gave my ww a chance and it blew up in my face.


----------



## badbane

Hockey27 said:


> We don't fit the stages listed here. She is feeling guilt over what she did, I see her questioning her identity as a good girl, and struggling to understand what she did. Based on the evidence I have collected, she has seen him twice without kids. Their chat log showed they kissed, and I agree with others on this, they groped and felt each other. This is PA, I'm not stupid. She has ended the PA, but the EA is there. I'm getting to the point of making an ultimatum, but I need to be prepared for her reaction and my own issues of self-worth / guilt over treating her like **** for the first 5 years. At any rate, the sex in our marriage has never suffered. She shows affection better than I do, she initiates sex more than I do, and I am trying to get better about this. She has not lost interest in sex with me, and apart from her 3 weeks of lying / cheating, she has been honest with me, and begging me to stay more emotionally connected to her for years. I'm listening to all the advice here, and I am working on getting the balls to demand a NC. Her computer activity, all of it, is logged - I know who she is texting, and unless she gets another phone, I feel pretty sure I can monitor. I know who she is with at all times, and I know where she is going. I will be vigilant, but I know I am taking a huge risk. I guess I am doing so because she trusted me when I didn't deserve it, she stuck with me when I was lying for FIVE YEARS, and in the last month since they kissed, she has not lied to me. She tells me when they chat, she offers to let me read the logs, she tells me when she sends him a text. If she lies again, I will demand the NC. I know it is a risk, but I am too much of a non-confrontational coward and I have no confidence that I can make the demand and back it up.


Listen you have to be able to forgive yourself for your own past (just not forget) as well. Presently today right now, the woman you love is having an extra marital affair and your responses all fit in line with someone who wants to rug sweep this. 

Feel free to give her a pass on this. She may be able to stay this guys friend. But will she be fine to stay friends for months, years even and not get reattached? The answer is no. 
Get over your being an ass for five years you have your whole life to make it up to her. 
Demand the NC and you be the person she comes to with her identity problems and the go to guy to cry to. You are supposed to be the best friend not some swim instructor who is trying to get some action on the side. 
You don't get that A's are like a drug. The feeling we have when we have a new relationship and are doing something we want against all taboos , releases massive amounts of dopamine (think cocaine on a smaller level). Then it becomes like a drug and they put on the charade for the BS but eventually will do anything to be with the OM. I read one story where the WW actually exploited her first DDay. The WH started taking sleeping pills for the anxiety. When he passed out She snuck the OM over and they did it in the basement with the BH upstairs blacked out on pills. 
I am not saying this as something you need to look out for. I am saying this to show you how far it can go. If it is to the point of a PA she has been able to look you in the face for awhile and lie to you. Why would it be any different now. 
You have been 
trickle truthed,
lied to a extent of the A,
she is refusing to back off of the relationship and is still talking to the OM,
She may be fine now but the OM is likely pushing for more,
She tried to use your past as an excuse for her current behavior.

All of these are giant red flags. You are in the shock phase. You need to get in the mad phase. Cause right now you are literally following the rug sweeping script.


----------



## cantdecide

OP, you're making a terrible mistake by not going nucleur. I was in almost the exact same boat as you. Married to a good girl, married 19 years, 2 kids, nothing ever inappropriate. She became good friends with an old friend from high school, etc. I confronted her about the texts, emails, phonecalls and facebook. Claimed she would end all inappropriate activity and that she was truly sorry. She'd never lied to me before so why keep accusing her. Want to know where it got me? I'm waiting for my divorce to be finalized. She lied to me, my kids, her family, my family and was sleeping with the guy (still is).

Step up to the plate and stop being a doormat. Your wife was considering cheating on you and may still be. Are you going to allow her to be friends with the guy that she wanted to sleep with? Really? Everytime she sees him she'll think of what she wanted to do with him (if she hasn't already).


----------



## Gabriel

Hockey27 said:


> She didn't - I emailed her out of the blue. She has not replied.


Um, you said earlier that the OMW asked about their relationship. So has she replied or not? You might want to get your story straight.


----------



## Hockey27

Just gave the NC ultimatum. She can't let go of another friend. She can't grieve 2 friends at once. She claims she is not having an EA, much less a PA. I told her we can talk about it in MC, but I can't R as long as she is "friends" with the OM. She's going to choose him, my friends, but better I know that now than after 6 months of torture. I'll re-affirm my NC ultimatum in counseling (piss my money away) and she'll choose him. Funny - if I have read enough stories, he'll choose his wife. This sucks.


----------



## Hockey27

Gabriel said:


> Um, you said earlier that the OMW asked about their relationship. So has she replied or not? You might want to get your story straight.


Sorry, she asked her husband, who texted my wife, who called me, then called him. They talked long enough for me to get pissed enough to make the NC ultimatum. Thank you everyone!


----------



## Gabriel

Hockey27 said:


> Just gave the NC ultimatum. She can't let go of another friend. She can't grieve 2 friends at once. She claims she is not having an EA, much less a PA. I told her we can talk about it in MC, but I can't R as long as she is "friends" with the OM. She's going to choose him, my friends, but better I know that now than after 6 months of torture. I'll re-affirm my NC ultimatum in counseling (piss my money away) and she'll choose him. Funny - if I have read enough stories, he'll choose his wife. This sucks.


Time to nuke the OMW with the logs. She'll probably end the friendship for you. But then, you still have a decision to make.

You have to be strong here and not back down.


----------



## Gabriel

Hockey27 said:


> Sorry, she asked her husband, who texted my wife, who called me, then called him. They talked long enough for me to get pissed enough to make the NC ultimatum. Thank you everyone!


Gee, you think this is deeper than you ever thought NOW?

The only way to save this is to be draconian about it. Lay down the law, and enforce consequences if she breaks it. No second chances anymore. No backing down. You can NEVER be friends with someone of the opposite sex if there is a sexual attraction. Never. Ever. Ever.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I just read a few of the posts so forgive me if I missed something. Your wife KISSED another man and wants to remain friends with him and you're cool with this?

Why don't you just give them permission to screw each others brains out -- because there's a lot of sexual tension being built up between the two of them and eventually it will need to be released. (If it hasn't already.)


----------



## lordmayhem

Gabriel said:


> Gee, you think this is deeper than you ever thought NOW?
> 
> The only way to save this is to be draconian about it. Lay down the law, and enforce consequences if she breaks it. No second chances anymore. No backing down. You can NEVER be friends with someone of the opposite sex if there is a sexual attraction. Never. Ever. Ever.


+1


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Sorry, not much to add. I just didn't want to be stuck on post #666 for too long.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

She can't stand to lose another friend? But she's ok with losing you???? Hmm, ok. Deep in the fog that one is. I have a feeling omw will be helping you out soon though.


----------



## cabin fever

Dude do yourself a favor, and buy the condoms for your wife. 

At least you are protecting yourself that way. 


I would seriously call the OM's wife, and tell her EVERYTHING

Then i would call the OM, and put the fear of god into him. 

Then I'd explain to your wife that if she ever contacts him again, everyone will know why you divorced her. 

for the love of god man! Get your F'n balls back, and take care of this ASAP!


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

This thread just keeps going in the same circles. The OP just doesn't get it and it appears he never will. The relationship is as good as over which I guess he's fine with. Save the money for the lawyer and forget wasting your time with counseling.


----------



## cantdecide

Hockey27 said:


> Just gave the NC ultimatum. She can't let go of another friend. She can't grieve 2 friends at once. She claims she is not having an EA, much less a PA. I told her we can talk about it in MC, but I can't R as long as she is "friends" with the OM. She's going to choose him, my friends, but better I know that now than after 6 months of torture. I'll re-affirm my NC ultimatum in counseling (piss my money away) and she'll choose him. Funny - if I have read enough stories, he'll choose his wife. This sucks.


My wife gave me the same sob story. "I've lost my father and now you're wanting me to get rid of my best friend?" I gave her a choice of me or him. After watching her go back and forth with the decision, I made it for her. I filed. She's playing you.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Why are you 'pissing' your money away on marriage counseling?
Your marriage is all but dead if you don't use the nuclear option. Sometimes you have to blow the village up in order to save it.


----------



## TRy

Hockey27 said:


> Just gave the NC ultimatum. She can't let go of another friend. She can't grieve 2 friends at once.


 But she can let go of you? How does that make sense? It only makes sense because she does not really believe that she will lose you. She is calling your bluff.

You must put your big boy pants on and make her believe by actions not words. As counter intuitive as this sounds, the best chance at saving your marraige is to move forward with ending it. Contact an attorney and begin discussing a settlement with her. Do this with the belief that it is over. It is OK to be sad about it being over, but you must convince yourself that it is over for her to take you seriously. This will either snap her out of the fog or it will not, but you have little else that you can do. Making no decision as you are now is a bad decision.

And for gosh sakes, if you want the other man to throw her under the bus when his wife finds out, tell her about the kissing and making out.


----------



## cantdecide

Hockey27 said:


> Just gave the NC ultimatum. She can't let go of another friend. She can't grieve 2 friends at once. She claims she is not having an EA, much less a PA. I told her we can talk about it in MC, but I can't R as long as she is "friends" with the OM. She's going to choose him, my friends, but better I know that now than after 6 months of torture. I'll re-affirm my NC ultimatum in counseling (piss my money away) and she'll choose him. Funny - if I have read enough stories, he'll choose his wife. This sucks.


You know what? I would've thrown my best friend under the bus if that's what it would've taken to save my marriage. Your wife can't bury a "new friend" to save your marriage? It's because she's at the very least having an EA. You're now second on the list.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

cantdecide said:


> You know what? I would've thrown my best friend under the bus if that's what it would've taken to save my marriage. Your wife can't bury a "new friend" to save your marriage? It's because she's at the very least having an EA. You're now second on the list.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Hockey27 said:


> The OM's wife just asked about their relationship... I did not share that the two of them had kissed, just that they have been talking a whole lot on Facebook. I'm keeping my nuclear bomb for now, trying to let my WW prove that she is going to be true to me. All the advice here says otherwise, but I have to give her one chance to save the relationship. I put it in her hands, have made it clear that I am not OK with them being "friends" - she chooses to be friends over making me comfortable. This may be the beginning of the end, but part of me wants so badly to believe in her. Part of me knows I have this coming based on what an A-H I was, and that I have failed her so many other times in regards to emotional connection. I'm sure that's why I fail to demand NC - I don't feel I have the right to demand anything. I have to change that but don't know how.


Well if she knew they kissed, she would not be comfortable with it either. Tell her.


----------



## RandomDude

Well hockey...

Aren't you easy to convince? She's pretty much serving you fish, selling it as steak, and you're buying it.


----------



## earlyforties

Hockey27 said:


> I will know if she starts down that road, and if that happens, I will either leave her or give her an ultimatum, but I don't expect we'll end up there.





earlyforties said:


> Carry on like this and 'there' will arrive on page 14ish I'd say. You must listen to the advice given and read similar TAM stories - yours is sounding identical to so many other WW threads.





Hockey27 said:


> Just gave the NC ultimatum.



Could be a page 10er


----------



## Hockey27

So far, so good. The no contact is complete, my wife is focused on repairing the damage and earning my trust back. I have full access to email, facebook cell phone, etc. It has only been a week, but I am hopeful for the first time since it happened. The full truth was shared with the other man's wife, and I think we'll have a full reconciliation. I'll only update if there is a change - thank you to all for the advice - following it may have saved my marriage.


----------



## Hockey27

Email has been clean, facebook has been clean, but. Big but. Her iPhone web browser history is always empty. On a date with her on Sunday, I know she searched for the restaurant phone number, but when I got her phone yesterday.... no history. Now what? How do I confirm my fear? The phone is not "jail broken" (iPhone 3G) so I can't put anything on there... any advice?


----------



## CH

Hockey27 said:


> I am too non-confrontational... Every time we talk about what happend, it always comes back to me. What is wrong with me, and that I did worse to her 10 years ago, and offered no support. She swears she is being open and honest. She looks in my eyes, pledges eternal love, swears she'll never hurt me again, and wants only to be with me. She swears it was a mistake, that she'll never make that mistake again, and that he is only a friend. She hasn't seen him since I caught them without the kids present. It sounds, however, like the general consensus is that I am a fool for trusting her, and that she is at a minimum having an EA. I am 99% sure it is not a PA, but I feel anxious ALL THE TIME. I'm going to counseling this week, but now I am wondering what the point is if she won't go. She gets mad when I bring it up because of all the times in our marriage she asked me to consider it due to my tendency to detach emotionally. Again, it all comes back to me. Is there any chance she is being honest?


Sooooooo, how many of those lies did you tell her and did you stop right away???? And how many times did you get mad when she kept bringing it up again????

It's like my oldest, she's a teen now and boy the lies that she tells now. I just stare at her and tell her, been there, said that, any other excuses you can come up with?

BTW, the OM has to go, not tomorrow or in a week or an hour. Today and now.


----------



## Hockey27

Replying to an older post - the OM is theoretically gone...


----------



## Caribbean Man

Hockey27 said:


> Email has been clean, facebook has been clean, but. * Big but. Her iPhone web browser history is always empty. On a date with her on Sunday, I know she searched for the restaurant phone number, but when I got her phone yesterday.... no history. Now what? How do I confirm my fear? * The phone is not "jail broken" (iPhone 3G) so I can't put anything on there... any advice?


If the history has been cleared , it means that she cleared it.
Ask her why.
Tell her she needs to stop clearing the history off the phone.
With iphones you cannot select one ph# off the list to delete.
That is why she is deleting everything.


----------



## snap

Some Safari browser versions lose all history when the battery dies.

But if that happens all the time it sure means she's cleaning it.


----------



## Shaggy

Safari on the iPhone supports privacy mode and won't save web history.

Look in settings->safari and privacy browsing


----------



## Shaggy

Also unless privacy browsing is on you can under the advance tab at the very bottom of that settings screen look at Website data for stored cookie stuff.


----------



## Hockey27

Thanks Shaggy, but I don't see the privacy browsing on my own iphone (3G) under Safari - Settings. Also, I don't have an Advanced option...


----------



## warlock07

Enable Private Browsing on iPad & iPhone with Safari in iOS

is hers a more recent model?


----------



## Hockey27

No, we have identical phones. I can't wait to get a new one, so I can use the "Find my friends" app to track her physical whereabouts...


----------



## Chaparral

If she 's deleting she's cheating. Iphones texts that have been deleted can be recovered.

iPhone Backup Extractor for Windows and Mac


----------



## Hockey27

Update - I visited a web site, just to create some history and see if she's actively using and deleting. Odd thing happened - her history from Sunday suddenly appeared in the history bookmark, and she hadn't visited any unusual sites - just searches for restaurants we were contemplating. I am very much relieved, the no contact is unbroken and we can proceed with reconciliation. Thanks again to all!


----------



## MarriedTex

Hockey27 said:


> Update - I visited a web site, just to create some history and see if she's actively using and deleting. Odd thing happened - her history from Sunday suddenly appeared in the history bookmark, and she hadn't visited any unusual sites - just searches for restaurants we were contemplating. I am very much relieved, the no contact is unbroken and we can proceed with reconciliation. Thanks again to all!


Good news. And good lesson not to jump to conclusions following first notice of suspiscious digital evidence. Monitor and observing to collect more information can be of great use.


----------

