# part 2



## M A (Aug 9, 2021)

[Deleted]


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Part of the appeal of 50 Shades was that it was a Cinderella story where the handsome, powerful prince falls for the common girl without her even trying. 

Christian Grey was strikingly buff and handsome and was a powerful multi billionaire. He was troubled and tortured inside and he fell for the common girl simply because she existed and was in his line of sight - What woman wouldn't fantasize over that? 

If Floyd the garbage man or Dale the night warehouse guy at Walmart, got the hots for some gal in electronics and wanted to tie her up and spank her azz, how many women would but that book???

So it's not just about sexual and physical dominance. It's about unusually handsome and profoundly rich men that are sexually dominant. 

And the heroine was a common girl and sexually inexperienced. Dakota Johnson is a nice looking Hollywood actress but the character she was playing, while attractive, was a not a bombshell or any kind of sex goddess. And while she may have been a bit nervous and taken aback by Grey's interest in her, she put forth no real effort. If Christian Grey were a real human, the agents and managers of super models, porn stars, Hollywood actresses and the hottest female olympic athletes would be contacting his handlers trying to set them up. That is the competition that a real-life commoner would have for the attentions of a man like Christian Grey. 

50 Shades tapped into women's inner hypergamy with the subtlety of a fog horn. It tapped into the hypergamous fantasy that the rich, handsome prince would fall for the pretty maid and take her away from her humble life simply because she had nice cheekbones and was sweet so he chose her over all of the Victoria's Secret models, the Hawaiian Tropic bikini team and Swedish porn stars that would all be clinging and clawing over him. 

Did sexual dominance and assertion play a role? Yeah sure, it was a component. But if it was Dale from the Walmart warehouse with his beer gut and missing teeth wanting to tie chicks up and flog them, women would have been repulsed and wanting to hold an old fashioned book burning.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm a woman and I read a few pages of "Fifty Shades" (not the beginning, just randomly flipped through it reading bits here and there) and I was completely turned off by the quality of the writing, which I thought was terrible. Everyone was always "murmuring" and "gasping". The dialogue was stupid. The "hero" was gross. The sex seemed repetitive. And I have enjoyed my share of erotica, but "Fifty Shades" was not what I would consider good erotica.

Obviously not all women agree with me, but I have a couple friends who felt the same way. So....guys, don't get your boxers in a wad about how all women everywhere fall for this schlock.


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## M A (Aug 9, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Christian Grey was strikingly buff and handsome and was a powerful multi billionaire. He was troubled and tortured inside and he fell for the common girl simply because she existed and was in his line of sight - What woman wouldn't fantasize over that?
> If Floyd the garbage man or Dale the night warehouse guy at Walmart, got the hots for some gal in electronics and wanted to tie her up and spank her azz, how many women would but that book???
> So it's not just about sexual and physical dominance. It's about unusually handsome and profoundly rich men that are sexually dominant.


Well - a lot of everyday women with everyday husbands have told surveyors that they would LOVE their husband to try this stuff.

So I don't think you have to be Christian Grey. But I do think you have to have a bit of BOLDNESS....


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

reading the book or looking at the film is a long way off experiencing anything like the story behind 50 shades ,
even the people that are into BDSM think 50 shades has nothing to do with what they are about ,
it is about rich guy that is not able make the bridge between his bad ass side and aftercare , 
it is just as oldshirt and chaotic said bad research, bad writing , 
the parts that sold this book was not the sex if you can call that sex , i think it was nearer to sicko sex Mr Gray needs to fond himself a place in a nut house ,


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

I never read the book personally and didn't want to. This kind of thing is private in a marriage. If spouses want to do that it is their affair and not to be emblazoned all over the internet. Everyone is different. Spanking definitely does not switch my wife on and in some marriages it is the husband who likes it. Look at the amount dominatrix sites. It doesn't need to be a dominating lifestyle just a bedroom thing. I think it is very personal although it is possible to discuss it sensitively.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Women want men who display masculine traits, including sexual confidence and boldness. Film at 11.

What surprises me is that so many were able to slog through the absolute trash writing. That shows you how desperate we have become for a taste of masculinity.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Never read it and wouldn't want to. I heard it was really really trashy. 
Please don't assume that just because some women read this book it means we all want the same.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I was interested in what all the fuss was about, so I read the first few pages of _Fifty Shades_ when the book first started making waves - well before the films, or even the book sequels. The writing was so dire that I absolutely just could not. Not even. It was bad, folks. Really, _really_, bad. 

So horrendous, in fact, that I promptly closed the book, put it back on the shelf at the B&N and went off to find something much more enjoyable, and soooo much more well written, in the Historical Romance section. Where you'll find romance, some usually at least enjoyable grown-people sex and even the occasional naughtiness. Tied up not with ropes or silk scarves, but....with an actual plot, well developed characters, and writing that would at least stand a chance of getting a passing grade in your average 10th grade English Lit & Composition course. Unlike the absolute drivel that is Fifty Shades. 

What consenting adults want to do in the privacy of their own homes is entirely their thing. I neither want to know, nor have any real opinion on it one way or another. But, I'm just personally not into BDSM. It's not my thing. What I _am_ into is a masculine man with some "confidence and boldness", as someone said above, sexual and otherwise.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Married Author said:


> Well - a lot of everyday women with everyday husbands have told surveyors that they would LOVE their husband to try this stuff.
> 
> So I don't think you have to be Christian Grey. But I do think you have to have a bit of BOLDNESS....


I don’t doubt that many women want their husbands to be more dominant and sexually assertive. 

What I am saying is the primary reason for the success of the book and movie was because he was strikingly handsome and extremely rich and powerful. 

When very rich, powerful and handsome men are assertive and dominant, chicks dig it. 

When the fat, toothless, homeless guy in the woods behind the city park try it, they call the cops.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> When the fat, toothless, homeless guy in the woods behind the city park try it, they call the cops.


I think even the average guys can't do it unless they have some game


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

As a side note - 50 Shades is merely the 2011 version of the classic tale of the handsome prince getting a boner for the peasant girl. 

Classic renditions could include Cinderella, Pygmalion/My Fair Lady and countless others. 

More modern comparisons could be Pretty In Pink and in my own humble opinion, 50 Shades is nothing but a poorly written and dark remake of Pretty Woman with some whips and chains thrown in. 

But at the end of the day, women dig it because it taps into their primal hypergamy that tells them that the peasant girl has a shot at the prince if she can make his penis hard enough.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

some people seem to mix up a masculine man confidence and boldness with a mad man that can't control himself 
and thinks beating the ass off his woman is fun , 
if that is been a masculine man call me a girl any day


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t doubt that many women want their husbands to be more dominant and sexually assertive.
> 
> What I am saying is the primary reason for the success of the book and movie was because he was strikingly handsome and extremely rich and powerful.
> 
> ...


Exactly, and Thats why Steven Tyler and Mick Jagger still have women throwing their panties at them. Two of the ugliest guys in show biz but rich and famous.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t doubt that many women want their husbands to be more dominant and sexually assertive.
> 
> What I am saying is the primary reason for the success of the book and movie was because he was strikingly handsome and extremely rich and powerful.
> 
> ...


You are correct. The rich, powerful and handsome guy is going to get a lot of leeway vs the creepy looking guy on the corner. Honestly if you are rich enough and powerful enough the handsome isn't even needed so much. Throw that in though, and the books fly off the shelf.

However, I do think the average guy who is already in a sexual relationship and has their foot in the door already could get away with making some of those dominant moves. I think in general most women want a sexual partner that takes charge and is at least somewhat dominant. It seems >90% of romance novels are some form of that story.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

In isolation, when answering the question solely in the context of sex “if you want to dominated” I think you’re gonna get way more “yes” than “no.” 

I do think a fair number fantasize about this in terms of not having to perform or be in charge of “yet another thing.” 

Furthermore, in the fantasy, the submissive partners don’t have any hang ups, or rules, or resentment, or a partner with PE or ED.

But I would agree… totally hypergamy.

I find it interesting that on one hand there is a majority of desire for dominant, manly man in the bedroom but not outside. Men are often castigated for “being men.” We are told Gray’s behavior is toxic masculinity and oppressive and if they are not this then they are buffoons and grown children.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You are correct. The rich, powerful and handsome guy is going to get a lot of leeway vs the creepy looking guy on the corner. Honestly if you are rich enough and powerful enough the handsome isn't even needed so much. Throw that in though, and the books fly off the shelf.
> 
> However, I do think the average guy who is already in a sexual relationship and has their foot in the door already could get away with making some of those dominant moves. I think in general most women want a sexual partner that takes charge and is at least somewhat dominant. It seems >90% of romance novels are some form of that story.


yes but 50 shades has nothing to do with domination but more on the side of brutality , you can dominate with out any of what you see in this ,,


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> and thinks beating the ass off his woman is fun


Hay it's fun, what are you talking about!
Try it, you will love it


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

What is hard to believe is that more men don't already know this and have it handled in the br.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> even the people that are into BDSM think 50 shades has nothing to do with what they are about ,


There's a reason I titled my 101 class, 50 Shades of Reality.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> yes but 50 shades has nothing to do with domination but more on the side of brutality , you can dominate with out any of what you see in this ,,


That's going to be a matter of opinion. I know many in the BDSM community who think (bad writing aside) that 50 Shades was pretty tame, even close to vanilla.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t doubt that many women want their husbands to be more dominant and sexually assertive.
> 
> What I am saying is the primary reason for the success of the book and movie was because he was strikingly handsome and extremely rich and powerful.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, there are plenty of women out there who would have called the cops on him even though he was strikingly handsome.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

I agree with the reason it was so popular, was because of its Cinderella like qualities rather than the dominance aspect. 

My assertion is that women are attracted to competent and confident males. Younger women tend to focus more on physical qualities, because in the main, young men haven't had the opportunity to demonstrate their competence. While older women focus more on the accumulation of wealth and power. (Competence at life if you will)

This, in my humble opinion, all takes place within the silos of physical attractiveness. With large disparities in wealth and/or power allowing for the silos boundaries to crossed to varying degrees.

Do women cry out to be ravaged? I think the answer is.....sometimes. I know when my lady wants to be taken forcefully and be submissive to my urgent advances, but I also know when lazy afternoon sex is what she's looking for. It's about reading the signs and probing her mood.

One thing she never gets though, is sex unless I want it


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

50 shades was crap. I downloaded the 1st book and couldn't read any more after a few chapters. It was written so badly. Made me want to go to sleep.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


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## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Married Author said:


> Notice how Sheck differentiates the term ‘ravishment’ from the term “rape”. This is a very important distinction. He continues: _*“Of course, women don’t want to be raped, this is an act of violence and power, not one of love. However, as revealed in the always popular romance novels, the fantasy of a strong, powerful man initiating sex with a woman, not accepting her initial reluctance, and then loving her passionately, is a popular fantasy.”*_


I doubt a court of law would see any difference if subsequently accused.
The name of the game these days would be avoiding prison more than fulfilling her fantasy.
Unless you have fantasies of your own involving other men.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Don't worry, there are plenty of women out there who would have called the cops on him even though he was strikingly handsome.


Maybe 20 years later. 

But there is no denying that rich, powerful, handsome and popular men, get a million times more leeway on things that would be very questionable for the common man.

We even had a president saying if you are rich you can “grab ‘em by the ________y.”


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Maybe 20 years later.
> 
> But there is no denying that rich, powerful, handsome and popular men, get a million times more leeway on things that would be very questionable for the common man.
> 
> We even had a president saying if you are rich you can “grab ‘em by the ________y.”


I mean if they're successful attractive men then more women find them attractive. But I don't think anyone thinks it's ever okay for someone to just grab them by the you know what like you just said above and I don't know anyone who would tolerate that and it happened to me when I was about 21. I didn't wait to see if he was good looking or not before I turned around and tried to kick him. It also happened to a girlfriend of mine when we were about mid 30s walking with her at a concert. She didn't waste any time checking to see if he was good looking before she turned around and decked him.

I understand your point but really what point is it, that women should have no preference for how a man looks? Really? Wouldn't that be convenient?

If a woman is real attracted to a man, she's more attracted sexually. That's no mystery or paradox.

Me and my friends certainly didn't wait until years later to act on someone grabbing ours. Fight instinct took over and it wouldn't have mattered what he looked like when either one of us turned around to smack them. Give women a little credit.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean if they're successful attractive men then more women find them attractive. But I don't think anyone thinks it's ever okay for someone to just grab them by the you know what like you just said above and I don't know anyone who would tolerate that and it happened to me when I was about 21. I didn't wait to see if he was good looking or not before I turned around and tried to kick him. It also happened to a girlfriend of mine when we were about mid 30s walking with her at a concert. She didn't waste any time checking to see if he was good looking before she turned around and decked him.
> 
> I understand your point but really what point is it, that women should have no preference for how a man looks? Really? Wouldn't that be convenient?
> 
> ...


A random grab out of no where, I agree that most women will likely become physical in someway, regardless of the person. However, that isn't how it would likely happen. Look at the situation with Cuomo. One of his executive assistants said, in addition to other things, Cuomo walked up to her for a hug, slipped his hand up her blouse and grabbed her breast. It took months and many other women coming forward before she did anything about it. Had one of her peer colleagues without Cuomo's power and wealth done that he would have been toast in 30 seconds. 

I'm not saying these are desired actions by the victims in anyway, but being rich and powerful definitely gets you a lot of leeway.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> A random grab out of no where, I agree that most women will likely become physical in someway, regardless of the person. However, that isn't how it would likely happen. Look at the situation with Cuomo. One of his executive assistants said, in addition to other things, Cuomo walked up to her for a hug, slipped his hand up her blouse and grabbed her breast. It took months and many other women coming forward before she did anything about it. Had one of her peer colleagues without Cuomo's power and wealth done that he would have been toast in 30 seconds.
> 
> I'm not saying these are desired actions by the victims in anyway, but being rich and powerful definitely gets you a lot of leeway.


Being popular gets you leeway because if it affects your job, coming at someone popular and powerful will usually end badly for you, not them. It has nothing to do with if they're good looking (he's not to me). It's about trying not to mess up your own financial security by either losing the job or ensuring you'll never get another promotion or getting a "good ol boys" condemnation that circulates throughout the industry. Men are who are to blame here, not the women who are afraid to lose their jobs or get branded. 

There are women who abuse their power too. How many times have you heard any kickback from that, unless the victim is gay?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I would also like to add that very few women "kept quiet" about sexual harassment in the workplace. They told people, but no one did anything but protect the harasser if he was valued by any of the male superiors. We had a guy at the office/warehouse I worked for 10 years who could come sit in my office and describe sex in detail, very graphic. He was known to fire one of the people in his department for dying her hair dark and no longer being a blonde. All the women talked about it and he would do it right in front of my two immediate supervisors, the one above me and the one above him. They knew all about it. I mean, I think one of them kind of mentioned to him one day that he was going to get himself in trouble, but he was still there 10 years later when I left. 

Where I work now, several years ago, there was a guy who was a videographer sent by my company to set up at legal proceedings. There would always also be a court reporter at those proceedings. This guy would come in the office, follow this one 30-ish excheerleader around bothering her every single time, trying to corner her, get her alone, and everyone in the office was talking about it. My boss knew it. He did it right in front of him. It was like watching Pepe Le Pew. 

And then he'd be telling my boss smarmy stories about how he ended up in a hot tub with a court reporter and getting graphic about it, loud, right in front of other employees. He also chased the boss's receptionist, who he didn't realize was the boss's new girlfriend because the boss was still going through divorce. She enabled the guy at the boss's suggestion. I asked her why she didn't report him, and she said, "Oh, he's harmless." It's unbelievable what some of these people get by with even in this decade. I mean, that guy was harassing the reporters he worked alongside continually. I told the boss he better be careful or he'd end up in a lawsuit. He was worried about it and eventually phased him out, but I mean, he should have stopped using him the first time he saw it happening. 

Even if those two trolls had been good looking, their actions would not have been acceptable to any women I know.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean if they're successful attractive men then more women find them attractive. But I don't think anyone thinks it's ever okay for someone to just grab them by the you know what like you just said above and I don't know anyone who would tolerate that and it happened to me when I was about 21. I didn't wait to see if he was good looking or not before I turned around and tried to kick him. It also happened to a girlfriend of mine when we were about mid 30s walking with her at a concert. She didn't waste any time checking to see if he was good looking before she turned around and decked him.
> 
> I understand your point but really what point is it, that women should have no preference for how a man looks? Really? Wouldn't that be convenient?
> 
> ...


I’m not disputing any of what you said.

But we need to keep this all in context here. The topic is not about groping or molesting random strangers but rather about dominance within actual relationships.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I’m disputing any of what you said.
> 
> But we need to keep this all in context here. The topic is not about groping or molesting random strangers but rather about dominance within actual relationships.


Actual relationships or just dating? Because I'd sure rather know about that before I married someone.


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## M A (Aug 9, 2021)

Actually, I wrote this about sexual dominance inside a MARRIAGE relationship - because that is what I thought this forum was for.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think it's just that you'd want to know that before you married them. I don't know any women who like to be taken by force, and I know there's been instances on here of women coming for help because they feel their husband raped them. But I know there are some, but then that's something you'd want to establish before marriage, certainly. And of course, anything like that is something you can easily get tired of and change your mind about liking, especially after some years. 

Like many women who answered this thread, I just don't think dominant sex equals BDSM but just confidence and fearlessness and most women like that and those are the guys who seem to do the best, having nothing to do with BDSM.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think a lot of people are fuzzy on the idea of fantasy vs reality.

In fantasy, being kidnapped by a tribe of beautiful amazon women to be their sex slave, may be fun, in reality it wouldn't be. 

In bedroom play (bdsm) its possible to act out the good parts of the fantasy without all the real world negatives. You partner can be the amazon queen, or pirate king, or whatever turns you on. They can "force" you to do all sorts of things.... that you actually want to do. Its play acting for adults.

One should never confuse dominant _play_ with really being dominant or really being abusive. Someone who wants to be dominated in the bedroom may have no interest whatsoever in being dominated in real life. 

50 shades was a fantasy that apparently is fairly common for women, but that doesn't mean women would want that in real life.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i think a lot of women READ 50 shades books, saw the movie....but not a lot of them became Subs!

i think it was some momentary titillation, or maybe masturbation fodder, but they were not willing to give up control to enhance their sexual pleasure.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

what do people think of the idea put out by some that people in jobs that they have to be in control management type jobs like to be submissive in the bedroom


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

The draw of 50 Shades wasn't just the sex it was the fantasy that this successful rich guy spends his most valuable asset, TIME, on her. I dated a lot of women who love it when you own businesses and have nice things, but they have no concept of the time commitment. They don't understand why you can't just sit on the couch and watch binge watch some crap show like their ex-bf who worked at the auto parts store.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> what do people think of the idea put out by some that people in jobs that they have to be in control management type jobs like to be submissive in the bedroom


Might be a different thread but I've seen that with some of the career women I've dated in the past. But it wasn't just the bedroom, it was more like they were tired of having to be the leader and when they left work they wanted the guy they were with to lead, both in and out of the bedroom.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> Might be a different thread but I've seen that with some of the career women I've dated in the past. But it wasn't just the bedroom, it was more like they were tired of having to be the leader and when they left work they wanted the guy they were with to lead, both in and out of the bedroom.


they say it about high power men are the ones that like a madam in the bedroom


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I feel like you don't understand women.

50 Shades had some BDSM or what have you as a back drop to a traditional Cinderella story. 
Rich guy falls head of heels for a poor girl wants to marry her and willing to do anything including fly across the country to see her even though she's only supposed to be gone for 3 days. Willing to give up BDSM. Willing to stop working so hard. Willing to give her money as she's leaving him because he loves her so much.

It's your standard romance with an unusual backdrop. Romance novel usually include the women orgasming. This novel does have more sex, more explicit sex but in general it is still monogomous, wanton sex in which the male antagonist is interested in the woman having an orgasm. ON top of being wildly in love with her to the point of being willing to do anything to have her and not just sex have her he wants to marry her desperately.

If you think women like this book because they want to be dominated it's a stretch. Do women generally like men who are decisive yes. Do most women desire a man who is desparately in love with them ABSOLUTELY,


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I couldn't get past a few pages. He seems like a broody douche.


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Don't worry, there are plenty of women out there who would have called the cops on him even though he was strikingly handsome.


And the reason she did not is because she was really motivated in her desire for hypergamy. So much so that she was willing to find (or create) the “M” in her to match the “S” in him. Remember that she was a plain nobody at the bottom — that she was literally the “bottom”. You need a “bottom” to be the “top”. Likewise, in all fairness, he couldn’t do the same to a woman with the status, wealth, and looks approaching those of his. Women like that are more likely to look for poolboys.


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## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> It's your standard romance with an unusual backdrop. Romance novel usually include the women orgasming. This novel does have more sex, more explicit sex but in general it is still monogomous, wanton sex in which the male antagonist is interested in the woman having an orgasm.
> 
> Do most women desire a man who is desparately in love with them ABSOLUTELY,


I'm only interested in me having an orgasm.
I've never really cared what the woman wants.
Which probably makes me a bad person.

I've noticed woman generally hate clingy men, my wife despised all the men that desperately desired her.


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