# Help with dispute with wife



## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

My wife and I have a financial dispute involving loss of her property, with value of about $130, while she was away from home. She wants me to take 100% of the responsibility, but I'm only willing to take 50%. I'd like to leave details until we're both here to each tell our sides.

I wonder if this group, or someone here could be a neutral arbitrator for us. Even small claims court has fees and is a hassle to drive to.

Please, I just want someone to listen to both sides and give an impartial decision we can both live with.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

You'll get a number of people who will listen, a slightly smaller number will be impartial.

I'm sitting here currently thinking your financial issue goes beyond, who's right and wrong but why are you two so divided monetarily?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

It's only $130, man. And if you're in a community property jursidiction, it's pretty irrelevant anyways.

But more detail will probably get you a more detailed answer.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Agree with Dad&Hubby in questioning the division. Seems excessive

Eat the $130. That's the cost of a nice dinner out, and probably better money spent.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

We're ALL neutral arbitrators, right guys???


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Go right ahead and tell. You'll get plenty of responses here. Even with them, you'll still have to decide how to solve this on your own. If you can't, the courts will at least give you 50/50, that's the way income, assets and liabilities are split when you get divorced. 

I can't wait to weigh in on this,


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

There's only two ways I can seem to interpret the little of the story we've been given:

1 - Your wife was away from home, took something worth $130 with her, and lost it, and wants you to help pay for it. 

2 - Your wife was away from home, left something worth $130 at home, you broke it or lost it - and she wants you to buy her a new one. She feels you are totally responsible, you feel you are only half responsible. 

What's the scenario here - she accidentally left her cell phone in the pocket of her pants and you put them into the washing machine? (Which might be a scenario where both people are kind of at fault.) Or did you like - lose something of hers in a poker match with your buddies when she was out of town? 

If you are actually considering going to court with your wife to fight giving her $65 for something you had at least some hand in losing/destroying, as another poster said - its hard to believe that's the only issue in this marriage. Where do you stand on finances?


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank for all your responses so far. It's #2, something she left here was lost. I'd prefer to wait to give you any further details until she is here to give her side. 

CA is a community property state, but we have a premarital agreement each waiving our community property rights, and agreeing to separate finances.

I'm interested in an impartial decision based on the facts of the case, similar to what I might get in small claims court. The P**sy-whipped among you who say just give her anything she wants to keep peace are not providing one.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Yeah, I'm going to suggest that if you want an impartial decision inflaming the "jury" by calling them names, likely not the best technique.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Why did you start this thread if you aren't yet ready to give any details? What is the point?

But the bigger question is why do you need a third party intervention for a squabble over $130? If your marriage is in such a bad state that you can't settle something like this between you and your wife, you have much bigger problems.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Edgar, you've got a lot more to learn about life than how to split a measly $130. Good luck, your going to need it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Are we talking about $130 or $130,000? BTW, prenups, even in community property states, do not necessarily stand up in court. Why? Because baseball great Barry Bond's ex took him to court to prove coercion. She won. 

An attorney has to know the specific details of your situation. Even then, it depends on how much each party has to lose - or spend - that will often determine the outcome of the case.

Even if we're talking $130,000 here ... that is generally chump change in a divorce action.

An attorney cannot give you legal advice online without specific disclaimers. Why not go to a local attorney's website and pay the bare-bone minimum to get an educated guess on how this will play out?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> Thank for all your responses so far. It's #2, something she left here was lost. I'd prefer to wait to give you any further details until she is here to give her side.
> 
> CA is a community property state, but we have a premarital agreement each waiving our community property rights, and agreeing to separate finances.
> 
> I'm interested in an impartial decision based on the facts of the case, similar to what I might get in small claims court. The P**sy-whipped among you who say just give her anything she wants to keep peace are not providing one.


Why do you want this impartial decision as if you're in a trial? What do you suppose it will do for you when you have one? At best, it will make one of you feel superior to the other, which cannot possibly help your relationship.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Well, I'm still here and I'm waiting patiently, Edgar.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks for all your comments. My wife is here now and can give her side. I will give mine first.

While my wife was gone, I had some guests visit the apartment. One I knew slightly, the other was a stranger, brought by the first. Sometime just before they left, one of them, probably the stranger, took my wife's notebook computer which had been left out in plain sight all the time she was gone. I recognize I bear SOME responsibility, but I think she bears some also for being careless with her property. On previous trips, I have offered to keep her valuables in my safe or other secure location, but she has always declined.

My wife now speaks: I live in the same apartment, of course I can put my stuff here. He invited his guests whom he barely knows to the apartment and they took my stuff, why SHOULD I take the responsibility for that, I just want him to replace the tablet which was stolen. I could not put away all my stuff while I was away.

Me again: She could have put away the tablet. It was left in an especially vulnerable position. Perhaps I should have done that for her, but I don't like to touch her stuff without her direction.

Wife: I don't understand his reluctance to move my stuff to a more secure area. There was other stuff of mine there, such as a notebook computer, which wasn't stolen.

Me: In hindsight, which is always 20/20, perhaps I should have. All this happened on short notice, and I can't think of everything, or watch everyone at all times.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

If I left something out and someone came over and took it, I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for it.

I might try to prove who took it and go after them. 

We leave our tablets laying around the house. Different people who live here have people over from time to time. If the tablet disappeared it wouldn't be anyone's fault.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

This couple needs marriage counseling - with a very experienced and extremely competant therapist - worse than anyone else I believe I've ever encountered.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

IMHO --- Once you let people into your home, virtual strangers I might add, it became your responsibility to safeguard your wife's items. To her, the place she left her tablet was not in a vulnerable area. It was left in the privacy of her own home. Now, if she left it on the front porch, that would be another story. 

1) You, Edgar, should replace it
2) You should apologize to your wife 
3) You should get the names of those in your home and see Judge Judy. 

Of course, this is just my humble opinion. And it was free!


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I have to agree with IrishGirlVA for the very reasons she gave. Your wife has a reasonable expectation that her possessions will be safe in her home.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

wow...what a petty argument.
dont sweat the small stuff.
i dont think its "p*ssy whipped" to chalk up the tablets loss to a thief and replace it.
jesus.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Edgar777: You're the responsible party. What you did by letting a stranger (brought by a VIRTUAL stranger) into the home was no different than leaving the home unlocked! With strangers (or near strangers) in the home, YOU should have been more vigilant.

Mrs.Edgar777: Why are YOU being so petty about who has to pay for it? If you keep your finances completely separate, fine! That's YOUR business. FOR THE SAKE OF MARITAL HARMONY, why don't you two split the cost?

Or is this NOT about the money? Is *THIS* about who has to be "RIGHT"?!?

If so, both of you save the money you would have spent on replacing the item and instead put it towards either marriage counseling or a divorce attorney because this pettiness and one-upsmanship is twisted.

And you two can split my fee, too, which is $0.00 (luckily, it comes out even!)


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Edgar pay up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I think ol' banned Edgar lost this jury trial.

I hope his wife comes back, though. I'd sure like to hear what she has to say, including how she puts up with it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

did you have a sign in your house, "We are not responsible for lost or stolen goods"?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I feel sorry for Edgar's wife. Sounds like a miserable marriage.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah, Edgar's gone.

I would say this. If it had been normal for his wife to leave and leave personal things around the house in the open in the past and nothing happened to them, she was depending on Edgar to maintain a sense of security within the house. Edgar violated that implied agreement by having strangers in the house and not securing his wife's personal belongings.

But if his wife made it a habit of securing her personal belongings before leaving, especially if she knew Edgar was in the habit of bringing strangers into the house, she is responsible for the loss.

I guess the bigger question is why aren't the police involved since Edgar obviously knows who the two suspects are.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Every time I think I've seen the lowest of the low, someone always surprises me. Wow, just wow.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

All I know is if my husband left his 'personal property" in his "personal home" "out " and not "secured" anything including items worth a whopping $130 instead of hiding them while I was home and he was gone and I invited a couple rank strangers in that stole any items I would be extremely apologetic.I wouldn't necessarily feel that either one of us was being "irresponsible" I would feel robbed and I'm sure so would he.But since I was home and I invited them in I would still feel bad that I was there when his property was stolen.If he is expected to be that paranoid because he is leaving to have to squirrel away is stuff while gone then what about me the one home inviting in strangers?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think I was thinking of the situation like a normal household. (not like the OPs house).

If my wife (or kids) had someone over they knew and that person brought a stranger with them and then something was stolen, my only thought would be to find out who stole it. Not to blame my wife or kid for letting them in the house. You can't very well ask for a criminal record from everyone that enters your house.

I think the situation would be different as well, depending on the type of company everyone in the house keeps. If my wife or kids or I were hanging out with 'questionable' people, then it would probably be normal to secure all valuables in the house whenever people were over.

In some situations I guess it would be the OPs fault. In my world, the only person at fault would be the one who stole the item. The most that would be said in our house is, "Don't let that person in the house again!"


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I think I was thinking of the situation like a normal household. (not like the OPs house).
> 
> If my wife (or kids) had someone over they knew and that person brought a stranger with them and then something was stolen, my only thought would be to find out who stole it. Not to blame my wife or kid for letting them in the house. You can't very well ask for a criminal record from everyone that enters your house.
> 
> ...


I agree...I would feel "violated' that my HUSBANDS stuff was stolen.I'm sure as violated as him.

I was thinking daily too ..like in my home.Sure if we are going to have a party and maybe someone might bring someone we don't know..or if we are having workmen in and out for home renovations..Heck yeah ..I would hide mine and his stuff.But who leaves the house on an average day with the spouse at home and feels the need to "secure' personal items and as 'inexpensive" as $130 (new) items?My sunglasses cost more than that I wouldn't "think" to "secure them" if I left on a cloudy day with my husband home in the off case chance he invites strangers over who are thieves.But if he did and they were stolen I would hope he would feel "bad" ....


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Flip a coin. ( if it's your coin make sure you get it back)

Let the fates decide. 

Get over it. 

Track down the loser who stole it (together) as that could be fun.

Give each other 130 spanks on the a** because that's what you're both behaving like. And you never know where that may lead...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

There is a reasonable expectation of security within the residence. She had every right to leave her laptop out in plane sight.

When one brings a guest into a residence they are responsible for what happens. Since he cannot prove what happened to the laptop he must take the responsibility.

Now in an actual marriage one would expect a husband to apologize to the wife for being irresponsible. This is actually the manly thing to do.
And then buy her a new notebook. But a man would also pursue those who were in the residence. The biggest issue is not the notebook.

But what is being described does not sound like a marriage but room mates. The result is the same however.

I replied to this realizing the OP is Banned. 

This is probably not the site the OP was looking for.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I noticed in the ONLY OTHER POSTING HE MADE (which was NOT on this thread) he stated that SHE works and keeps all HER money, HE works and pays for their domicile & food.

So perhaps it's a 'what's HERS is HERS' and 'what's HIS is OURS' scenario, in which case I'd say his REAL problem is that he has agreed to let his wife ride on his coattails and treat HIS income as THEIR marriage's money while HER income gets to remain her little private treasury! 

Edgar's wife: WHY IS THAT?

I'm a woman and I think a set-up like that STINKS! Do you share finances, or not?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I noticed in the ONLY OTHER POSTING HE MADE (which was NOT on this thread) he stated that SHE works and keeps all HER money, HE works and pays for their domicile & food.
> 
> So perhaps it's a 'what's HERS is HERS' and 'what's HIS is OURS' scenario, in which case I'd say his REAL problem is that he has agreed to let his wife ride on his coattails and treat HIS income as THEIR marriage's money while HER income gets to remain her little private treasury!
> 
> ...


Thats a good point..and I think its tacky and sort of "high schoolish"..


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> Thanks for all your comments. My wife is here now and can give her side. I will give mine first.
> 
> While my wife was gone, I had some guests visit the apartment. One I knew slightly, the other was a stranger, brought by the first. Sometime just before they left, one of them, probably the stranger, took my wife's notebook computer which had been left out in plain sight all the time she was gone. I recognize I bear SOME responsibility, but I think she bears some also for being careless with her property. On previous trips, I have offered to keep her valuables in my safe or other secure location, but she has always declined.
> 
> ...


Ok, I haven't read the posts that followed this one yet. I'll do that after I respond instinctively to this one...

I would not perceive a need to hide my belongings in my own home. My home is a safe place, and I need my family to recognize that and protect it accordingly. 

OTOH, part of my OWN responsibility for making it a safe place is to have renter's insurance or homeowners insurance that covers me in those OOPS! events that inevitably happen. 

Yes, he could have moved it or used better judgment about who to invite over, and/or kept a better eye on them. I do hope he filed a police report and had the visitors put on record, at least. But I don't think he is _obligated_ to purchase a new computer. It would be kind and loving of him to do so, just as it would be kind and loving to recognize that mistakes happen and both of you contributed to this. Why not go halfsies on the cost of a replacement? Each of you is putting "SELF" as more important than your marriage, which is not a good thing at all.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So - while I realize I might never get an answer to this as the OP is banned - but, if you are pretty certain that these two guys you "barely know" stole this item - why didn't you report them to the police?

Also - why did two almost total strangers need to come to your home "at the last minute." That sounds totally sketchy to me. Usually when you have friends over you kind of know a bit of advance, when everyone is employed and married, those things require planning. So - what exactly was the reason they were over?

And given that you barely knew them, why were they wandering around your house unsupervised?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I am a:
Male
Relationship Status
Marriage
Length of time in current relationship:
20-30 yrs.
Sexual Orientation
Heterosexual
Biography
Retired since 1990.
Location
San Jose, CA
Interests
TV, Internet.
Occupation
Retired 

Retired for 23 years. Wow.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Retired for *23 years* and he provides money for their domicile and food?

I have a cousin who lives in the Hamptons and they rent out their house for 100K for one month in the summer (which helps with the 10K/month mortgage). 

She doesn't like that she has to put things away either but it pays for the domicile... (though her hubby is far from "retired" )


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I am a:
> Male
> Relationship Status
> Marriage
> ...


Unbelievable! 

I felt there was a self centered immaturity to the post and attributed that to youth. 

That's one thing about TAM, my eyes can always be opened by the way other people live in their relationships.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

If I could rent my house out for $100,000 a month and sometimes live in the Hamptons, I'd lock everything in a hidden safe in the wall like a James Bond villain.


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## TheManinBlack (Feb 21, 2013)

Edgar777 said:


> My wife and I have a financial dispute involving loss of her property, with value of about $130, while she was away from home. She wants me to take 100% of the responsibility, but I'm only willing to take 50%. I'd like to leave details until we're both here to each tell our sides.
> 
> I wonder if this group, or someone here could be a neutral arbitrator for us. Even small claims court has fees and is a hassle to drive to.
> 
> Please, I just want someone to listen to both sides and give an impartial decision we can both live with.


My take on this is that you and your wife have more serious issues than the loss of $130.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Everything I have I share with hubby. We don't keep track of who pays for what. If hubby broke or lost something of that value I would freely give him what he needed to replace it. He is much more important to me than money.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> Thank for all your responses so far. It's #2, something she left here was lost. I'd prefer to wait to give you any further details until she is here to give her side.
> 
> CA is a community property state, but we have a premarital agreement each waiving our community property rights, and agreeing to separate finances.
> 
> I'm interested in an impartial decision based on the facts of the case, similar to what I might get in small claims court. The P**sy-whipped among you who say just give her anything she wants to keep peace are not providing one.


I stopped here, so any posts after this haven't been read.

Are you serious. So you come on a marriage site with this attitude?!?! SERIOUSLY? Dude, go to a law site...that's what you want for an answer.

PS I can't comment on ANYTHING regarding your situation because my wife and I share everything. We have only joint accounts and pool our money. Noone spends money without the other knowing it.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks for all your comments. I apologize for the delay in this reply, but the website banned me until today because I apparently violated some rule about language.

We counted up your replies offering a judgement. 2 were for me, 9 were for my wife, and 4 were neutral or suggested splitting the cost. The verdict is then for my wife, and I have reimbursed her for the full replacement cost. I don't agree, but I have abided by the majority verdict.

I will now comment about some of your answers and answer some of your questions.

Some advised marriage counseling or a divorce attorney. It may come to that, but that was not what I was asking advice about. This issue, at least, is settled.

I did submit a police report, and got a number. Have not heard from the police since. I think the police are pretty useless.

Many of you reference "OP." I don't know what that means. Other Person?

If I didn't say before, I did "feel bad." And I had warned her on previous trips, but not this one, that she should not leave her property unsecured, and I offered to put it in my safe or other secure location, but she always refused. She is aware that I do have people not well known to either of us come to the house while she is away. Now after paying for her stolen notebook, I have warned her again, and she seems to be doing better at getting her valuables out of sight.

We do not share finances. We agreed to this, in writing, before getting married. My idea. But we do have division of labor. I pay for housing, she cleans the house (not very well). I buy the food, she does the cooking and dish-washing (machine). I pay for laundry supplies, she does the laundry. I do not pay for her clothing, makeup, new car, jewelery, etc. Also, she will not inherit much from me, so she needs to provide for her own retirement.

The people who come are people who answer my ad looking for a live-in housekeeper. In this case, one who said she could find someone for me invited herself and her friend over to ostensibly cook dinner for me. One of them distracted me while the other apparently made off with my wife's property.

This concludes my comments. If any of you have any further comments or questions, I may respond further.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> Now after paying for her stolen notebook, I have warned her again, and she seems to be doing better at getting her valuables out of sight.


Well, I certainly hope she learned her lesson!!!! :whip:

:slap:


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

JMHO

you let strangers into your house and they stole something.

your fault.

I think I would be more concerend about the company you keep.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I could be wrong but it seems the issues in this "marriage" go way deeper than a stolen notebook pc.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Edgar777 said:


> Many of you reference "OP." I don't know what that means. Other Person?


It means that in the infidelity context. Generally, it simply means "Original Poster", i.e. you.

Glad you could work it out. Are you picking up our arbitration fees, too?


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

It hardly sounds like a marriage. But on to the issue at hand.

If it was "in her house" ... it WAS in a responsible location. If you invited strangers or untrustworthy people into the home YOU are responsible for anything and everything that goes wrong from it.

If she left it out in the yard... then it would have been left in an unsecure location. Your thinking is beyond rediculous.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

yep if my kid let some shady friends into my house and they stole something I would consider it his fault for letting them into our house in the first place.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Edgar777 said:


> Thank for all your responses so far. It's #2, something she left here was lost. I'd prefer to wait to give you any further details until she is here to give her side.
> 
> CA is a community property state, but we have a premarital agreement each waiving our community property rights, and agreeing to separate finances.
> 
> I'm interested in an impartial decision based on the facts of the case, similar to what I might get in small claims court. The P**sy-whipped among you who say just give her anything she wants to keep peace are not providing one.


I don't need to hear the rest of the story, it is all here. Your wife is right but she should give you $1300. Based on your condescending attitude, twice that much is a small price to pay to get you off her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

You know what Edgar? Based on your update, I changed my mind. I think your wife OWES YOU! Because if your wife was better than a "not very well" housekeeper than you wouldn't have had to post an ad looking for a live-in housekeeper. But because you had to do that and that meant having strangers in your home, her stuff would never have been stolen. 

So shame on her. Shame, shame, shame! 

Oh wait, see, changing my mind again. Do you buy the cleaning products? If not, then this goes back to being your fault.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Edgar777 said:


> Thanks for all your comments. My wife is here now and can give her side. I will give mine first.
> 
> While my wife was gone, I had some guests visit the apartment. One I knew slightly, the other was a stranger, brought by the first. Sometime just before they left, one of them, probably the stranger, took my wife's notebook computer which had been left out in plain sight all the time she was gone. I recognize I bear SOME responsibility, but I think she bears some also for being careless with her property. On previous trips, I have offered to keep her valuables in my safe or other secure location, but she has always declined.
> 
> ...


I agree with the wife. You were there, she wasn't. You are responsible. She should feel safe about her things being in the mutual home. That's the idea of a mutual home where both your things are. Bet it the tables were turned you'd be looking at it quite differently if it was your notebook.

You had a sense of distrust with the stranger? (most likely, you didn't know the person) If so, then why didn't you put away valuables.

Perhaps you should try recovering the item by talking to the known person and getting contact info (do it diplomatically first, if no results then get a little heavier handed "I know one of you took it" deal).

If you are going to divide your things like this and one is there while something happens while the other is not - the one there is responsible for the loss.

On the other hand, never have understood the mine is mine and yours is yours concept in marriages or LTRs. It always feels like a "keeping your spouse at arms length" to me in a physical representation of material things type deal to me.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

youkiddingme said:


> It hardly sounds like a marriage. But on to the issue at hand.
> 
> If it was "in her house" ...


This is not her house. It is MY house, recorded as my sole and separate property. She signed a notarized transfer deed relinquishing any ownership interest.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

CantePe said:


> Perhaps you should try recovering the item by talking to the known person and getting contact info (do it diplomatically first, if no results then get a little heavier handed "I know one of you took it" deal).
> 
> ...
> 
> On the other hand, never have understood the mine is mine and yours is yours concept in marriages or LTRs. It always feels like a "keeping your spouse at arms length" to me in a physical representation of material things type deal to me.


I did contact the KP by Email and phone. She at first said she recovered the notebook and offered to return it, but later asked for money, didn't like my offer of a finder's fee, and said she would just keep it. I still have all these Emails and said so in my police report. Seems like a slam-dunk case. But the [useless] police have not contacted me. 

One of the main causes of divorce is fights about money. Having separate finances avoids that.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> This is not her house. It is MY house, recorded as my sole and separate property. She signed a notarized transfer deed relinquishing any ownership interest.


wow


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

IrishGirlVA said:


> You know what Edgar?
> Oh wait, see, changing my mind again. Do you buy the cleaning products? If not, then this goes back to being your fault.


She buys most cleaning products and groceries, but I reimburse her based on receipts she submits. OTOH I pay for her car insurance and some of her online purchases, and she reimburses me. I keep all this accounting in Quicken.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm amazed. Just plain amazed.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Edgar777 said:


> I did contact the KP by Email and phone. She at first said she recovered the notebook and offered to return it, but later asked for money, didn't like my offer of a finder's fee, and said she would just keep it. I still have all these Emails and said so in my police report. Seems like a slam-dunk case. But the [useless] police have not contacted me.
> 
> *One of the main causes of divorce is fights about money. Having separate finances avoids that.*


?? A dispute over who is responsible for the cost of a stolen notebook doesn't seem to negate that idea to you?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm really, really surprised OP given how particular you were with the wife about pre-nups and making sure she wasn't going to inherit anything from you, etc. 

And that you get cleaning people to apply from an ad rather than going through a service that guarantees secure and bonded employees who don't want to ruin their bonding status by being convicted of theft. Why are you so particular with the wife, but not other people in your life? 

Also - what finder's fee were you offering? If you'd offered a tad more, you might have saved you and the wife some grief, as now not only does this person have your wife's property, but access to any and all personal information on that laptop. Or - were you debating with the wife who should pay the finder's fee?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Currently thanking The Universe for my amazing life. This whole story hurts my eyes.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

CantePe said:


> ?? A dispute over who is responsible for the cost of a stolen notebook doesn't seem to negate that idea to you?


Not at all! Of course, separate finances doesn't solve ALL problems, nothing can do that. A PMA and separate finances got me out of my first marriage at almost no cost. Combined finances is a disaster waiting to happen, as almost every divorced man can testify.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> And that you get cleaning people to apply from an ad rather than going through a service that guarantees secure and bonded employees who don't want to ruin their bonding status by being convicted of theft. Why are you so particular with the wife, but not other people in your life?
> 
> Also - what finder's fee were you offering? If you'd offered a tad more, you might have saved you and the wife some grief, as now not only does this person have your wife's property, but access to any and all personal information on that laptop. Or - were you debating with the wife who should pay the finder's fee?


I want to hire someone informally, pay them in cash, and not file any government forms. Can't do that with an agency. 

I offered 10-15% of the value, which I think is a traditional amount. When that failed, I asked her flat out how much it would take. She never said, but just said she would keep it.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> I want to hire someone informally, pay them in cash, and not file any government forms. Can't do that with an agency.


so this person wouldn't have to pay taxes on money earned or report anything? And you're ok with that.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> Not at all! Of course, separate finances doesn't solve ALL problems, nothing can do that. A PMA and separate finances got me out of my first marriage at almost no cost. Combined finances is a disaster waiting to happen, as almost every divorced man can testify.


So you are expecting to divorce. :scratchhead:


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> so this person wouldn't have to pay taxes on money earned or report anything? And you're ok with that.


Very OK. Taxation is theft!


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> So you are expecting to divorce. :scratchhead:


Half of all marriages end in divorce. I'd be stupid not to plan for the possibility. OTOH, we've lasted +25 years, based on the ground rules we agreed to. Human relationships are very fragile. The wrong word at the wrong time can shatter them.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Your responsible for the full amount since you lost it.

Man up and pay. $130 is not that much.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I want to hire someone informally, pay them in cash, and not file any government forms. Can't do that with an agency.


So - you want to hire people who are doing something unscrupulous and illegal, but magically expect them to be honest with you, and not steal? And then you want to blame your wife that her home and thus belongings aren't secure because of your political stance on taxation? 

Hmm. 

So - does these "ground rules" involve replacing your wife's domestic work with an unbonded, potentially illegal law-breaking live-in housekeeper? Won't that fundamentally change the nature of your relationship, once she's no longer responsibility for the domestic duties, that apparently she'd done badly for 25 years?


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> I did contact the KP by Email and phone. She at first said she recovered the notebook and offered to return it, but later asked for money, didn't like my offer of a finder's fee, and said she would just keep it.


You have this persons phone and email. It would seem that you could easily get the address.

This person admitted that they have your laptop. Go over there and get it.

Call the cops on the way over.



Edgar777 said:


> Very OK. Taxation is theft!


How do you expect town, city, and state workers to be paid? How do you expect to drive to work if there were no roads or bridges, the costs of which are paid by taxes? 

Your thinking is rather odd.

Besides, the losers you hire off the books will steal more for you than you would have paid a legitimate bonded housekeeper.

You're the classic example of pennywise and pound foolish. You'll keep saving money until you've got nothing left.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Your responsible for the full amount since you lost it.
> 
> Man up and pay. $130 is not that much.


Haven't you been paying attention? I already paid, after "losing" the verdict on this forum?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

"_She is aware that I do have people not well known to either of us come to the house while she is away_."

So these potential housekeepers only come to the house when she's not there?


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

totamm said:


> You have this persons phone and email. It would seem that you could easily get the address.
> 
> This person admitted that they have your laptop. Go over there and get it.
> 
> Call the cops on the way over.


The police could get the address from the cell provider, but I can't. Maybe even her Email address, if she was stupid enough to tell Gmail her real address, but they won't give it to me. Anyway, now she denies she has it, says her friend has it. If she doesn't give up the friend, that makes her an accomplice, but the police will do nothing. Useless tax feeders.[/QUOTE]




totamm said:


> How do you expect town, city, and state workers to be paid? How do you expect to drive to work if there were no roads or bridges, the costs of which are paid by taxes?


They shouldn't be. They should go get honest jobs providing goods and/or services people are willing to pay for.

Costs for roads are supposed to be paid by gasoline taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes, which I do pay because I can't avoid them; but they're siphoned off for mass-transit and other boondoggles. Anyway, I haven't driven to work since 1990.



totamm said:


> Your thinking is rather odd.
> 
> Besides, the losers you hire off the books will steal more for you than you would have paid a legitimate bonded housekeeper.
> 
> You're the classic example of pennywise and pound foolish. You'll keep saving money until you've got nothing left.


That has not been my experience. This is the first instance where I actually suffered a (so far) permanent loss. In the one other case, years ago, a girl stole some blank checks on which she forged my signature and cashed. But I got all that money back from the bank after some time. The signature didn't look at all like mine, but the bank cashed them anyway. I filed a police report. She was stupid enough to deposit my checks to her own bank account. She would have been very easy to track down, but aside from taking a report the police did nothing.

Years ago, I bought a safe to keep valuables protected from pilfering.

As for money management in general, I must be doing something right. My net worth approaches $1.5 million, according to Quicken.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> *Half of all marriages end in divorce.* I'd be stupid not to plan for the possibility. OTOH, we've lasted +25 years, based on the ground rules we agreed to. Human relationships are very fragile. The wrong word at the wrong time can shatter them.


BS!!! More PC pablum, served to forgive guilt. 

Fifty Percent of American Marriages End in Divorce-Fiction!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I wonder if this is a troll? Just too strange...

Why do you need "live in"? Seems like awful high standards to expect your wife who works to keep up with.

Maybe things have changed but I used to clean houses and no one ever had to fill out any paperwork on it but me (wasn't live in though nor full time). Why not just get a reference from someone who is happy with their housekeeper and have her in a couple times a week?


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> So - you want to hire people who are doing something unscrupulous and illegal, but magically expect them to be honest with you, and not steal? And then you want to blame your wife that her home and thus belongings aren't secure because of your political stance on taxation?
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> So - does these "ground rules" involve replacing your wife's domestic work with an unbonded, potentially illegal law-breaking live-in housekeeper? Won't that fundamentally change the nature of your relationship, once she's no longer responsibility for the domestic duties, that apparently she'd done badly for 25 years?


I don't regard tax avoidance as unscrupulous. Would you tell a mugger about the $100 hidden in your shoe? My wife isn't bad at everything, mainly some cleaning chores. Since she works, I'm willing to cut her some slack. A paid housekeeper would only supplement what my wife does, hopefully leaving the wife more time to spend with me.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

Blonde said:


> I wonder if this is a troll? Just too strange...
> 
> Why do you need "live in"? Seems like awful high standards to expect your wife who works to keep up with.
> 
> Maybe things have changed but I used to clean houses and no one ever had to fill out any paperwork on it but me (wasn't live in though nor full time). Why not just get a reference from someone who is happy with their housekeeper and have her in a couple times a week?


My thinking is that my offer of food and housing will be valuable to the housekeeper. Also, I'm looking more for a servant, who will be available to do various minor tasks whenever needed.

Some applicants who don't want to live-in have offered to come 3-4 times a week, and I might consider that if I can't find a live-in, or the live-in situation doesn't work out once we try it.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

New subforum idea:

TAM Court


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> The police could get the address from the cell provider, but I can't. Maybe even her Email address, if she was stupid enough to tell Gmail her real address, but they won't give it to me. Anyway, now she denies she has it, says her friend has it. If she doesn't give up the friend, that makes her an accomplice, but the police will do nothing. Useless tax feeders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You should move to Somalia, it's a libertarian's paradise.


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## Edgar777 (Mar 5, 2013)

BrockLanders said:


> You should move to Somalia, it's a libertarian's paradise.


Somalia is more of an anarchy. Their tribal system was working OK for them, until outsiders, including the USA, intervened.

Libertarians, myself included, allow for some government, but restricted to very narrow duties of providing a common defense and a court system. The US government doesn't even do a very good job of those, much less all the other functions it arrogates to itself.

In Anarcho-capitalism, even these functions are provided privately, and are supported by fees paid for desired services, not compulsory taxation.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Edgar777 said:


> This is the first instance where I actually suffered a (so far) permanent loss. In the one other case, years ago, a girl stole some blank checks on which she forged my signature and cashed.


The issue is not whether or not you have suffered any permanent loss. The issue is that you are exposing yourself to unecessary risk when you have the financial means to avoid it.

Moreover, you now have _two_ first hand experiences of what happens when you take that kind of risk, yet you rationalize your actions because the last time you managed to get the bank to pay for the results of your risky behavior and this time it didn't cost you very much. This time. What happens next time when you really get cleaned out? 

You are opening up your home to people that you don't know, they are stealing from you, and yet you rationalize letting them do it because you don't like government and taxes? If it weren't for the government and the taxes that you so obviously avoid, your bank could just have easily said "You took a bad risk, and you lost money. Too bad." Instead, there are laws protecting you, that you took advantage of.



Edgar777 said:


> My net worth approaches $1.5 million, according to Quicken.


Yet you squabble over who should pay for a stolen laptop? 
Not only that, but when you had an opportunity to recover it you nickle and dimed the opportunity away?

You and your wife can handle your money however you both see fit. No one should tell you otherwise. What I will say is that it seems pretty clear to me that you have a marriage on paper but nothing more. You value money above your wife. Your marriage seems to be lacking the compassion, mutual respect, and love that would significantly lower your odds of divorce - and yet you cite statistics rationalizing those choices.

Best of luck to you both


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