# If your family is toxic would you be close to them or avoid them?



## green_eyed (Nov 16, 2021)

For example, if your father beats your mother, cheats, talks bad to her and doesn't financially help her. She complains all the time but is still with him.
Please also give explanations in the comments about your opinions.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I went homeless when I was 15 because my mother has stabbed me several times. 

I think you know my answer.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

One reason I got married and moved out on my own at 18 was to get away from an overbearing mother. I don't need any toxicity in my life. One of the reasons I dumped Facebook.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diceplayer said:


> One reason I got married and moved out on my own at 18 was to get away from an overbearing mother. I don't need any toxicity in my life. One of the reasons I dumped Facebook.


My mother straight up tried to kill me. Many times. I got good at blocking knives. 

Heh. Fun times.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

green_eyed said:


> For example, if your father beats your mother, cheats, talks bad to her and doesn't financially help her. She complains all the time but is still with him.
> Please also give explanations in the comments about your opinions.


I would be hard for me not to just beat the crap out of him. Honestly I would probably do every legal thing I could to do destroy him. My stepfather was emotionally abusive, once I was an adult I told my Mom she needed to leave. I used reason and luckily she listened. If it was physical and she didn't want to leave I would have given her an ultimatum. 

I am not nice, nor do I feel the need to be. That **** must not stand.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I would be hard for me not to just beat the crap out of him. Honestly I would probably do every legal thing I could to do destroy him. My stepfather was emotionally abusive, once I was an adult I told my Mom she needed to leave. I used reason and luckily she listened. If it was physical and she didn't want to leave I would have given her an ultimatum.
> 
> I am not nice, nor do I feel the need to be. That **** must not stand.


I like you. You seem to make sense. Do you have any thoughts on my situation?

The situation I was in before I joined the army?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> I like you. You seem to make sense. Do you have any thoughts on my situation?
> 
> The situation I was in before I joined the army?


I think I would have done exactly what you did. I moved out when I was 18 so that my Step Father and I didn't come to blows, I had other family that helped me early on and my Mom was onboard as she could tell it was headed that way. I had moved to a major city by the time I was 20 and was living on my own. I wasn't completely alone though, I had support so it's not the same at all.

I'm sorry that happened to you.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

You're against the ones creating the toxic mess, and you're with and for family who are the victims of toxic mess. That sorts them all out real quick. The victims need you.
You're against the bad ones, and you're with the good ones who need you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> My mother straight up tried to kill me. Many times. I got good at blocking knives.
> 
> Heh. Fun times.


I'm so sorry, man. I once met this guy who was selling phones at Sam's Club who ended up telling me about his mom trying to choke him to death. It came up because we found out he grew up on a street close to where I grew up. Nothing worse than being horribly abused by the one who is supposed to be your biggest supporter. 

To the original poster, don't stay where there is danger, ever, no matter who it is. Children of violence either continue the cycle or they rebel against it. The latter is by far the healthier path psychologically. Don't stay where it's dangerous, and report any abuse to the law, even though she may not cooperate. Do it anyway. These days, if there is evidence (bruise, for example) of abuse when police come, they can act even if the victim is too scared to want them to. It is no miracle cure though, but sometimes violent people are actually big cowards and getting police involved could intimidate them into maybe not doing it as much or as badly.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

It shouldn't matter one bit if someone is family or an aquaintence, if they are toxic avoid them.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I think I would have done exactly what you did. I moved out when I was 18 so that my Step Father and I didn't come to blows, I had other family that helped me early on and my Mom was onboard as she could tell it was headed that way. I had moved to a major city by the time I was 20 and was living on my own. I wasn't completely alone though, I had support so it's not the same at all.
> 
> I'm sorry that happened to you.


I wasn't completely alone either. 

For six years I bounced around. But for most of it, I had _somewhere_ to bounce to. 

Then I joined the army.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I would just add that report it to police every time, because there may be children around the home at times, and they will call CPS about that and work on it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If my dad had beat my mum I would have reported him every time until he was arrested.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> If my dad had beat my mum I would have reported him every time until he was arrested.


Are you sure?

What would you have done _as a kid_?

Me, 

I would have run away. Which is exactly what I did.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I avoid toxic people as much as possible, including family members. If my parents were in that situation, I would continue to speak to my mother and encourage her to branch out and grow as a person. Being in a relationship like you describe does things to the way the victim of such violence thinks. She might not realize that she has a choices.
I would stay away from the father you describe or anyone who was physically violent or emotionally abusive. I just cannot tolerate it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> I wasn't completely alone either.
> 
> For six years I bounced around. But for most of it, I had _somewhere_ to bounce to.
> 
> Then I joined the army.


What effect did it have on your life? For me, I think the constant unrest in my house made me much more anxious in my life. I relate it to like growing up in a war zone (though I know it's not the same really). You just never knew when everything would explode. I had some other things happen in my life as a young adult to reinforce that, including the story I always tell of running for my life at gunpoint and thinking I was going to die, but I am think I am still always looking for that explosion in a way, still.

One of the reasons why I am very against staying for the kids.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> What effect did it have on your life? For me, I think the constant unrest in my house made me much more anxious in my life. I relate it to like growing up in a war zone (though I know it's not the same really). You just never knew when everything would explode. I had some other things happen in my life as a young adult to reinforce that, including the story I always tell of running for my life at gunpoint and thinking I was going to die, but I am think I am still always looking for that explosion in a way, still.
> 
> One of the reasons why I am very against staying for the kids.


I was terrified. I joined the army and fought in a lot of wars. 

I never went home. That's what it did to me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> I was terrified. I joined the army and fought in a lot of wars.
> 
> I never went home. That's what it did to me.


Yours was much worse then mine, for sure. 

Thanks for your service.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> What would you have done _as a kid_?
> 
> ...


I meant as an adult. If my dad beat my mum I would report him as an adult. Its different for children.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

It's strange...


Diana7 said:


> I meant as an adult. If my dad beat my mum I would report him as an adult. Its different for children.


As an adult?

I was a kid when I had to deal with this stuff. Nobody deals with this as an adult unless they can afford a therapist.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Does your mum have somewhere to go? Other extended family? Does she have options? Would she be in danger if she left? (Keep in mind the most dangerous time is when the woman is ready to leave, and after she has left). 

If she’s not in danger and she does have options, then it’s fair to say that after a certain time you’re not responsible for the outcome anymore. Or in other words, you don’t have to listen to her and are free to state your boundaries. 

Has their been violence towards you from your father? Are you more likely to take his side due to fear? This is a very common situation, the kids can often turn on the real victim. Some children even support the violent person by getting angry if the abused spouse tries to leave. It’s easier to blame the victim then stand up to the abuser. It’s just one of the many ways the abuser gets away with it over and over. People in the family circle rarely call the scary one out.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> It's strange...
> 
> As an adult?
> 
> I was a kid when I had to deal with this stuff. Nobody deals with this as an adult unless they can afford a therapist.


Therapy through the VA?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> It's strange...
> 
> As an adult?
> 
> I was a kid when I had to deal with this stuff. Nobody deals with this as an adult unless they can afford a therapist.


They did if they are still in contact and wanting to help the abused.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> If my dad had beat my mum I would have reported him every time until he was arrested.


You might have had a long wait. They usually just have to release them right after arrest leaving them free to come back home really mad. 

I asked my mom why she didn't call the police and the truth is we didn't really have any out where we lived. You just didn't see the law out there. We were kind of just outside townships.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> They did if they are still in contact and wanting to help the abused.


Well that sounds like victim blaming. 

Tell me you have never been there without telling me that you have never been there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Well that sounds like victim blaming.
> 
> Tell me you have never been there without telling me that you have never been there.


Not sure how you work that out? I am talking about an adult relative wanting to help say a parent or sibling who is being treated badly. Hence the sort of question asked by the op.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Not sure how you work that out? I am talking about an adult relative wanting to help say a parent or sibling who is being treated badly. Hence the sort of question asked by the op.


Eh, I probably reacted on emotion. As much as I try to avoid doing that, I'm still human. 

Abusive situations are really tough to navigate. 

It's never easy.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Honestly, if Dad had ever laid a hand on Mum in anger I wouldn't do anything, I wouldn't have to because my youngest brother would beat the living daylights out of him - and there'd be nothing anyone could do to stop him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Honestly, if Dad had ever laid a hand on Mum in anger I wouldn't do anything, I wouldn't have to because my youngest brother would beat the living daylights out of him - and there'd be nothing anyone could do to stop him.


OK now what would you have done if your Mom laid a hand on your Dad?


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> I was terrified. I joined the army and fought in a lot of wars.
> 
> I never went home. That's what it did to me.


And you've said you ended up being a top performer in the Army. Apparently your mother trained you well for dealing with Afghanistan.

I don't communicate with the dysfunctional part of my family anymore, mother included, but as the years go by I realize more and more that the garbage fest she put me through really prepared me well for the world. So for that I'm grateful. Even if it wasn't intended to be for my benefit.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Eh, I probably reacted on emotion. As much as I try to avoid doing that, I'm still human.
> 
> Abusive situations are really tough to navigate.
> 
> It's never easy.


Very true.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

gaius said:


> And you've said you ended up being a top performer in the Army. Apparently your mother trained you well for dealing with Afghanistan.
> 
> I don't communicate with the dysfunctional part of my family anymore, mother included, but as the years go by I realize more and more that the garbage fest she put me through really prepared me well for the world. So for that I'm grateful. Even if it wasn't intended to be for my benefit.


It would have been easier without the anxiety. 

That said, yeah. She prepped me well for my chosen profession. I don't really see that as a good thing.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> It would have been easier without the anxiety.
> 
> That said, yeah. She prepped me well for my chosen profession. I don't really see that as a good thing.


Yes.

Some bad parents like to think they made your stronger by their abuse and neglect when in fact, they turned you into a damaged version of yourself.

The saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is absolutely false. It makes you different. That's all.


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## green_eyed (Nov 16, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> If my dad had beat my mum I would have reported him every time until he was arrested.


I wouldn't report him, I would just remove myself from the situation. Especially if mum was still with him


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

green_eyed said:


> I wouldn't report him, I would just remove myself from the situation. Especially if mum was still with him


If your mum gets hurt, or even killed, you'll regret that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> OK now what would you have done if your Mom laid a hand on your Dad?


That depends on the size difference and if there were weapons involved. Yes, that's a different perspective and yes responses may be hypocritical to some degree. 

That's just the real world.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Well that sounds like victim blaming.
> 
> Tell me you have never been there without telling me that you have never been there.


I don't see how you jumped to that conclusion; I think @Diana7 was just trying to say that as an adult, she would be involved in the situation if she wanted to help where help was needed.

@As'laDain, I'm really sorry that you've been through what you've been through; that must have been horrific to go through as a child/teenager, and it's something that I couldn't even fathom a parent doing to their child. However, you also need to remember that while not everyone went through trauma like yours, there are people who've still experienced trauma. Some of it physical, some of it emotional, and you need to tread carefully because being as blunt as you're being can seriously harm or offend some of us who've been through family traumas of our own. I'm one of those who's gone through emotional/mental trauma and it still continues at times to this day. I'm not trying to minimize your experience; I'm just saying that everyone has a story, and many are terrible stories. Also, thank-you very much for your service; you are a phenomenal person for serving your country!


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Some separation from family members that are “toxic” can be a very good thing. Try to be far enough away such that they can’t easily drop by.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> It would have been easier without the anxiety.
> 
> That said, yeah. She prepped me well for my chosen profession. I don't really see that as a good thing.


How did the authorities not act to get you to safety?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi @As'laDain and @sokillme ,

I'm applying for my membership in the "my parents tried to kill me" club. I'm the oldest of three girls: my middle sister is about 1 1/2 years younger than me, and our little sister is 9 years younger...an "oops" baby. Anyway, my parents where big drinkers and when she was born, their fights became physical. They regularly pushed, hit, and punched each other and I saw my dad try to strangle my mom with a phone cord once while my sisters and I hid under a table. I was scared to death he'd kill "the baby" if he saw her, so I ran up and hid my dad in the head to get him to stop strangling my mom, and I told my middle sister to run with the baby and hide in the closet in her bedroom. What the hell kind of life is that?

As we got older, we moved to a farm. Now I loved farm life because I'm that way at heart, and I LOVE animals...but my mom did not love country life. Dad continued to drink, and that made her crazy angry. We used to call it "phases of the moon" but I think now that I'm older, she's undiagnosed bi-polar. To this day she goes through cycles but absolutely WILL NOT admit she needs any counseling or therapy. Anyway, she was mad cuz my dad would go to the bar and drink, soooo...she'd have us stand at attention for hours and listen to christian radio programs, and if we got tired, she would hit us with a broom handle, a wooden brush, or a rolling pin--whatever she could grab. I would yell at her and fight with her so my sisters could escape, so naturally I was the "rebellious" one and she'd beat me all the more. She'd hit me with the wood until she was tired, and then send me into the basement as a punishment. 

As a kid, I did two things: 1) There was no way on earth I was going to let her break me. I got HARD and determined to survive JUST to piss her off. 2) As soon as I could, I got the heck outta there and never, ever looked back. 

As an adult, I did go to therapy for myself for five years, and then I went to group therapy for abuse survivors for several more years. But I also moved several thousand miles away from my parents because I wanted to be an adult who made my own decisions and lived my own life. To this day, I live several thousand miles away because it's best for my sanity. My dad divorced my mom, stopped drinking and has gotten sober, but my mom essentially has not changed other than mellowing because she got older. I mean, she never did any treatment, therapy or medication, so she still occasionally goes a bit over the edge. I maintain friendly but vigilant connection with my dad and so far so good--he's behaving in a far away, but healthy way. My mom...not so much. She sends letters that rant and rave on religion, tries to get me to tell someone in the family to do "this or that", get manipulative or tries to force things to happen her way, etc. Soooo... I don't wish her ill, but I choose to not be close to her or her toxicity. If she gets that way, I am a couple thousand miles away and just say "No" and ignore her rantings.

*Edited to add: *I can't speak for @As'laDain, but for me there would have been no point in calling "authorities" when I was a kid. It was the 70's and out in farm country. It wasn't unheard of for kids to get a whoopin' for being naughty--taken out behind the woodshed. So kids showed up at school with bruises and whatnot all the time. Most of us kids knew the other kids who were being beat, but we didn't say anything, and no teachers looked or noticed...and if they did, they had no directive to report it...and if they did, the sheriff would have taken us home to our folks and told them to ease up on the hitting and then the parents would have hit us for telling! 

So yeah--as a kid it was a survival thing. I'd hide. I slept out in the trees where they couldn't reach me. I'd stay in the barn. And if I couldn't avoid them I set my teeth and took it in silence (which REALLY pissed 'em off). Just shut up and take it.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> How did the authorities not act to get you to safety?


Clearly, you have never lived in the deep south.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ursula said:


> I don't see how you jumped to that conclusion; I think @Diana7 was just trying to say that as an adult, she would be involved in the situation if she wanted to help where help was needed.
> 
> @As'laDain, I'm really sorry that you've been through what you've been through; that must have been horrific to go through as a child/teenager, and it's something that I couldn't even fathom a parent doing to their child. However, you also need to remember that while not everyone went through trauma like yours, there are people who've still experienced trauma. Some of it physical, some of it emotional, and you need to tread carefully because being as blunt as you're being can seriously harm or offend some of us who've been through family traumas of our own. I'm one of those who's gone through emotional/mental trauma and it still continues at times to this day. I'm not trying to minimize your experience; I'm just saying that everyone has a story, and many are terrible stories. Also, thank-you very much for your service; you are a phenomenal person for serving your country!


Yeah, you are right. 

Honestly, emotional trauma is worse. I can heal from a stab wound. That just takes a little time.



Healing from "Useless piece of ****" is much harder.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Clearly, you have never lived in the deep south.


I live in the UK. I have a few friends from there.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I live in the UK. I have a few friends from there.


Long story short, it's the "good ol' boy" system. 

And, despite what my mother put me through, she was still my mother. 

Domestic violence often be like that. For years, I thought I deserved it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Yeah, you are right.
> 
> Honestly, emotional trauma is worse. I can heal from a stab wound. That just takes a little time.
> 
> ...


There is father/child sexual abuse in my family so thats the one I know most about.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Long story short, it's the "good ol' boy" system.
> 
> And, despite what my mother put me through, she was still my mother.
> 
> Domestic violence often be like that. For years, I thought I deserved it.


I was just hoping that a family member or family friend say may have said something.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

The worst thing that


Diana7 said:


> I was just hoping that a family member or family friend say may have said something.


You would be surprised at how common it is that it doesn't get reported.

I have heard people say "why doesn't she just leave" and it always ticks me off. I had to get blisteringly angry before I left. I mean, I went homeless at 15. 

About 8 years ago, I helped a buddy get away from his abusive wife. He was literally afraid for his life and the lives of his two daughters. You can read his story here:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1b1391

It wasn't just me I was afraid for. I had two brothers to worry about. When my younger brother got big enough to fight himself, I left.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @As'laDain and @sokillme ,
> 
> I'm applying for my membership in the "my parents tried to kill me" club. I'm the oldest of three girls: my middle sister is about 1 1/2 years younger than me, and our little sister is 9 years younger...an "oops" baby. Anyway, my parents where big drinkers and when she was born, their fights became physical. They regularly pushed, hit, and punched each other and I saw my dad try to strangle my mom with a phone cord once while my sisters and I hid under a table. I was scared to death he'd kill "the baby" if he saw her, so I ran up and hid my dad in the head to get him to stop strangling my mom, and I told my middle sister to run with the baby and hide in the closet in her bedroom. What the hell kind of life is that?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you had to go through that. 

You get it. 

Part of the confusion for me was the fact that my mother was so horrifically abused as a child. Besides smacking my daughter's hand when she was a toddler and was reaching for stuff that would burn her, I have never laid a finger on her. 

Oddly enough, my mother was the person I feared the most, but she was also a wildcat that would fight for me in a heartbeat. Hell hath no fury and all that...

Like everything, when people are involved, there is nuance.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

You know what's funny? I used to be very angry. But, the stuff that I went through growing up is the reason I am so driven to help people when I can. 

When I see people struggling just to survive, I don't just see it. I feel it.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Yeah, you are right.
> 
> Honestly, emotional trauma is worse. I can heal from a stab wound. That just takes a little time.
> 
> Healing from "Useless piece of ****" is much harder.


They're both pretty terrible, unfortunately.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Ursula said:


> They're both pretty terrible, unfortunately.


They are both bad, but tripping on a piece of rebar and cutting my leg open doesn't make me think I'm somehow bad, broken, and unlovable, just for existing.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

sokillme said:


> OK now what would you have done if your Mom laid a hand on your Dad?


I would lose my ever loving **** at her. I can't see either of my brothers hitting Mum either, I can see them holding her back though. There was a huge height and strength diff between mum and dad.

To be clear - this is all hypothetical, neither of my parents ever laid a hand on the other in anger.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> It would have been easier without the anxiety.
> 
> That said, yeah. She prepped me well for my chosen profession. I don't really see that as a good thing.


Why not? And how do you know you'd be anxiety free if she had been nice to you instead? This new generation was often raised in an ideal, stress/abuse free environment and it's made them more anxiety ridden than ever. 

Not that she should have tried to stab you, but Bowe Berghdals parents probably never said a harsh word to him. Look where he ended up. Guy couldn't take a fraction of what you could.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

gaius said:


> Why not? And how do you know you'd be anxiety free if she had been nice to you instead? This new generation was often raised in an ideal, stress/abuse free environment and it's made them more anxiety ridden than ever.
> 
> Not that she should have tried to stab you, but Bowe Berghdals parents probably never said a harsh word to him. Look where he ended up. Guy couldn't take a fraction of what you could.



what the hell do you know about Berghdahl?

That guy was in my unit. What he did was ****ed up, yes. But he was ****ed up at the time. And he got royally ****ed for his actionns.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> what the hell do you know about Berghdahl?
> 
> That guy was in my unit. What he did was ****ed up, yes. But he was ****ed up at the time. And he got royally ****ed for his actionns.


As far as I know he's never brought up any kind of childhood abuse or trauma as a defense for what he did, at his court martial or otherwise. Perhaps if he had a little more stress in his early years he would have learned how to handle it and not cracked like he did. 

You're going to live the rest of your life as an honored veteran, with all the benefits and respect that entails. And whether it's fair or not he's going to be looked at like dog poop on the bottom of a shoe. I'm grateful I was prepared and didn't end up like him.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> what the hell do you know about Berghdahl?
> 
> That guy was in my unit. What he did was ****ed up, yes. But he was ****ed up at the time. And he got royally ****ed for his actionns.


Another thread commandeered by you.

Go start your own thread and let the OP have hers back, okay?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @As'laDain and @sokillme ,
> 
> I'm applying for my membership in the "my parents tried to kill me" club. I'm the oldest of three girls: my middle sister is about 1 1/2 years younger than me, and our little sister is 9 years younger...an "oops" baby. Anyway, my parents where big drinkers and when she was born, their fights became physical. They regularly pushed, hit, and punched each other and I saw my dad try to strangle my mom with a phone cord once while my sisters and I hid under a table. I was scared to death he'd kill "the baby" if he saw her, so I ran up and hid my dad in the head to get him to stop strangling my mom, and I told my middle sister to run with the baby and hide in the closet in her bedroom. What the hell kind of life is that?
> 
> ...


Sorry that happened to you my friend. I think my stepfather was bi-polar or had a personality disorder. He never hit me or my Mom but he would get about an inch away from her face and scream at her, he didn't do that to me mostly because from about the age of 13 to 17 I went to my room when I went home and stayed in there. He would do the typical intimidating crap that guys do to women, yell in her face, make threatening gesture, curse at her over nothing. I give no quarter for that it's very hard for me not to lose my **** when I see that going on. I mean part of me wants to light those guys on fire.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

gaius said:


> As far as I know he's never brought up any kind of childhood abuse or trauma as a defense for what he did, at his court martial or otherwise. Perhaps if he had a little more stress in his early years he would have learned how to handle it and not cracked like he did.
> 
> You're going to live the rest of your life as an honored veteran, with all the benefits and respect that entails. And whether it's fair or not he's going to be looked at like dog poop on the bottom of a shoe. I'm grateful I was prepared and didn't end up like him.


I wouldn't argue that he was being rock chewing stupid, but there is some stuff I know about that most people don't. 


Have you ever had to care for someone while they were having a mental break from reality? Like, those cases where you know, before anything even happens, that they are going to make a horrible decision. You just don't know what they are gonna do. 

I usually don't talk about him. In fact, I have been a member of this forum for about a decade, and I don't think I have ever mentioned him here. 

That's a painful memory. 

As far as I'm concerned, he has paid his dues and learned his lessons, so why not leave him be? At this point, he is gonna rot in some corner of the country anyway.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

In case y'all are wondering, I saw something and didn't say anything because I didnt know what I was seeing. 

You live, you learn.


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