# Need some help...



## sinjin (Jan 25, 2017)

Hello all. First post after lurking for a while. 

I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.

My problems are:

1. I am having a really tough time forgiving her fully. What she did seems so selfish to me and I just can't quite bring myself to FULLY forgive. I am not sure how to get over that hump. I feel like I am angry all of the time and mostly manage to keep it in check but if I can't figure out a way to forgive her I won't be able get past this.

2. I can't get the images of her with the OM out of my head. We have never discussed the act itself in any detail so my imagination runs wild. She has said she thought it would be easier to get past if we don't discuss the details. I am not so sure. Is it better to know the gory details or not?

3. The last issue is that we live in a small town so there is no one for me to really talk to about this without word getting out and affecting our daily lives and hence our ability to possibly work through this. We move in the same basic circles and telling one person would be like telling a lot of people. So I am trying to deal with it on my own and that is really tough. I sometimes feel if I could just vent to someone I would be able to move forward. I need some way to release all of the pent up stuff I am carrying around. I guess that is why I came to TAM.

I am not convinced we can get past this if I can't figure out how to deal with it. What have others done? Any and all advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I assure you it was more than 1 time. How did you find out? Did she feel so guilty she just had to confess? Don't let her dictate the terms of reconciliation.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* First off, to the BS(betrayed spouse), the discovery of infidelity and spousal betrayal is always quite a blow to ones sense of self worth as well as their ego! Being a blindsided victim of this scourge is understandably difficult to endure as well as to ultimately have to cope with!

The visions that you now imagine are referred to as "mind movies," and can last an eternity, contingent on how you come to handle the situation!

Please read Dr. Robert Glovers No More Mr. Nice Guy!

Inasfar as the trust issues go, you should demand unfettered access to your W's cell phone and social medias passwords, in order to find out the extent of her "coming clean" with you! If you reach an impasse with her over this, then you need to fully execute "the 180" on her!

Sorry to see you here at TAM, but it is, IMHO, preeminently the best marriage forum in the world in which to air your problem and at the same time get solid worthwhile advise!

Best of luck to you, my friend!*


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I've never been a fan of "having to know the details". You pretty well know the "mechanics" of it and its more than likely she did at least as much with this cat as she's done with you. Besides, if she does tell you the details, its virtually impossible to know if youre hearing it the way it actually went down and at best its her perspective. While not completely agreeing with Thound, its rare that women who step out on their husbands limits it to a single event When a woman cheats, my position is her romantic interest has waned, she thought hard about it before crossing that line, and if she's going break her vow of loyalty, she's going to try and get her money's worth.
Based on your concerns, you've got a lot more bird dogging to do before you decide what direction to take.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OP she's lying it's been more than one time... she's Tickle Truth you. meaning she's only going to tell you the bear minimum she's really afraid that you finding out the whole truth especially all the messages her and her lover sent back-and-forth. She thinks that if you know everything you will definitely leave her. and that you will end the marriage. She wants to rugs weep it and hopefully it will go away, and that she gets to cake eat. meaning she gets to have an affair and not ending your marriage. Kind of selfish right.?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

She's almost certainly lying about something; a wayward not wanting to discuss details is usually a sign of additional lies.

Is she still working w/ OM?

Is he married? If so, has the affair been exposed to his wife?

You say you found out six months ago -- how long ago (as far as you're aware, anyway) was the affair?

And how did you find out?

Has she committed to no contact w/ OM?

Has she committed to transparency going forward?

Please know that I'm not asking these questions out of morbid curiosity -- there is a reason for each question.

While you're here, read through @LostCPA's threads.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

sinjin said:


> had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker.


Well folks, how many times have read read this? Straight out of the cheaters handbook in Chapter 1 - Trickle Truth



sinjin said:


> I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened.


And this is usually straight out of the BS handbook, Chapter 1 - Denial and Rug Sweeping.

sinjin, you're about to get good advice, and you would do well to heed it. Some of it is going to be brutal you need to be strong.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Some more background information might help. Your ages, family size, when did the affair occur in the marriage?? Did she confess or was she caught?? What consequences has she faced? What reasons did she give for cheating in the first place? Is the guy she cheated with married or in a relationship? If so does the partner know? What has she done to help you get over this? What has she done to assure you this won't happen again??? etc.


More information makes it easier for us to help you.

Oh and I agree with the others. I doubt you got the full truth.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Some great questions and advice already so I'll just tackle number two.

Knowing details varies from case to case weather it helps or not.

Some people need to know everything to be able to move forward in a healthy way.

For others, knowing only the basics is enough.

You have to decide and it is up to you.

Your wife doesn't get to dictate to you the level of information you require to heal from the damage she has inflicted.

How has your communication been in your marriage?

She has massively damaged your communication because of her betrayal and lies.

That is essential to restoring and helps with restoring trust as well.

It sounds like you both need to have a sit down and talk this out.

Sometimes having the cheater write down an account of events, leading up to the affair, during it and after with a timeline is extremely helpful.

That way you can question her about any of it as you have need to know.

Your questions shouldn't be all the time but at certain convenient times for specifically talking about the affair.

She needs to read up on how to help you heal.

She caused the fvcking damage so she better get her ass in gear to move heaven and earth to start repairing it.

It has already been alluded to but if she still works with the asshat, that is bad news.

This is probably going to be one of those situations where you desperately need her income and it being a small community, she doesn't have other job opportunities but I'm telling you now that you have a tough enough road ahead without her seeing him everyday.

Part of healthy reconciliation is for the cheater to go "No Contact" with their fvckbuddy.

Trying to reconcile without no contact is like trying to eat a porcupine with the quills.

She needs to do everything in her power to stop doing damage to you and your marriage and having contact with the fvckwad is continuing to erode your marriage and harm your emotions.

Keep posting. You are on a long road no matter what occurs in time.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
There are some basic issues that need to be addressed before any R can be successful. If your wife confessed and terminated the A on her own that is usually a good sign for it demonstrates her awareness of her misdeed and the desire to self correct. If she was discovered then that is problematic. Also, for any R to be fruitful, the WS has to be totally contrite and deeply remorseful. It is not a good sign for her to tell you that "she" feels it would be better for you not to know the details. She should be saying "tell me what you need to know to heal, anything, I will tell you". She appears to be wanting/needing to not fully disclose.

The mind movies do diminish with time however it may benefit you to know more details since you indicate that your mind is making up the script. Some of those movies may be fiction and that can be more damaging than the truth. If she did not confess and was discovered then you must ascertain whether or not she really wanted to stop the A or was forced to. If the latter, then your efforts to R will prove futile. She has to want the marriage to continue at any cost, including her "comfort", for R to work. If she is not willing to completely severe ties to the AP then you cannot R.

Lastly, R is very hard work and requires a level of dedication that was not present in the marriage pre-affair, lest you would not be here now. Both of you must be all in and completely determined to save the marriage or the effort will not succeed. There is no such thing as a half hearted successful R. I would caution you to not let your desire to keep your marriage cloud your perception of reality. If your W behaves contrary to any of the above then your chances of R are non existent because that means that you will have to accommodate her in order to move forward and that will not work long term, especially if/when she cheats again.

Good fortune in your efforts.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Why is she making the rules here, as the victim here you get to set the questions and expectation and if she can not agree to them then you give her, her walking papers....first is this co worker married? ...and have you notified the other OM wife? And yes she should know? Did you both get tested....will she take a polygraph ? And yes you don't trust her....and tell it to her face


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

sinjin said:


> I found out about 6 months ago *my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter *with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened...
> 
> My problems are:


Highly doubtful on the one-time.

Your problem? What you really want to know is... How deep is the rabbit hole.

Here's the basic problem with R. The cheater (only when caught) is remorseful and wants to "repair" the marriage, but is shameful and scared to tell the whole truth. Yeah, they can rationalize some "good" reason but in the end it's just more lies.

Hmmm... just more lies and lying about the affair is just more cheating?

When caught, my WW did the "one-time" confession. Looked me straight in the eye, tears streaming, hand on the bible (honestly), and lied. Lies had become her natural response. She had been practicing for years.

Regarding an affair... There's always more.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

As others have told you, she's likely lying to you about the extent of the affair. There might have been many more meetings than the one she told you about. There might have been passionate confessions of undying love. She might have denigrated you unfairly to her AP (affair partner). She might have done sexual things for him that she historically refused to do with you. You need to also consider the possibility that the affair might still be going on. If you want to monitor her activities better, we can provide suggestions.

If the affair has indeed ended (hopefully it has), sweeping the whole thing under the rug is not an effective way of dealing with it. There are hundreds of stories in here of people who've tried this. It never works. The marriage ends up in zombie mode for years, with the unaddressed affair simmering under the surface, until finally the BS (betrayed spouse) wakes up one day and realizes that he's still just as hurt and angry as day one, and has really not forgiven. Some BS's need to know all the details and I suspect that you're one of those. In order to really forgive someone, you need to know what you're forgiving.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

_"There might have been passionate confessions of undying love. She might have denigrated you unfairly to her AP (affair partner). She might have done sexual things for him that she historically refused to do with you. You need to also consider the possibility that the affair might still be going on"

_

Tatsu, it seems to me its pretty unlikely she going to confess to that degree.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> _"There might have been passionate confessions of undying love. She might have denigrated you unfairly to her AP (affair partner). She might have done sexual things for him that she historically refused to do with you. You need to also consider the possibility that the affair might still be going on"
> 
> _
> 
> Tatsu, it seems to me its pretty unlikely she going to confess to that degree.


I doubt he was talking about getting a confessions though honesty is the only policy that works for marriage and is essential for reconciliation.

I believe he was talking about digging /spying but I could be wrong.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Until you have decided what consequences you can actually hold her too. Dont bother talking about it anymore.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

sinjin said:


> I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.


How did you find out about the encounter?

This is huge. If she told you because she felt bad about it, then you've got a fighting chance at saving this thing and you can be more somewhat confident that she's being honest with you about it being only one time, although as almost everyone else has said, it's RARELY a one time thing. An affair encounter is like a drug, for those who experience it, it's not something you can just sort of dip a toe into and say "ok that was fun no more of that!". No, it's usually a several time thing until and unless one or both parties gets a reality check in one way or another. 

If you found out via a means other than her telling you herself, then she's a cheater, a liar, she cannot be trusted in the least and you cannot believe anything she tells you.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I too am sorry you are here... 

There are only victims where we create them ourselves. 

You sir, are no victim. 

You may feel many things we all experience when this has happened to us in our lives either through a past marriage or current... hurt from betrayal and disappointment of what was unfathomable measures before this feels like it kicks our very soul of our path and breaks our trust for the moment until we realize that the most important trust is still there, the one we keep for ourselves.

Forgiveness is about letting go of the thing(s) that hurt you, about what we choose to do with and to what depth. Every forgiveness is different, there is no hard and fast to it and definitely no timeframe although the sooner we can reach a functioning calm the better we have the clarity we need for looking around us with proper focus. 

As you realize, you cannot forgive with anger in the way. She was selfish beyond reason, human who made some seriously bad choices but damaged herself way before it overflowed to you. Only you can assess the remorse she gives you and if it is heartfelt, but accept that remorse at face value if you can but again, it will be pretty hard to do with anger in the way. Don't create an identity from the betrayal, this is not your story or how you look at yourself because then you are really stuck in a bad feeling with even more work to relieve yourself of her burden and regain your calm.

Images... these fuel your anger because you fill in every blank with a supposed assumption. It really does not matter if you were betrayed only a little or a lot with how she shared herself that way and broke your trust. Images are self-torture... a path through fire so to speak. If you want to know the details you have every right to ask. If she disagrees whether the sharing is helpful all you can do is let her know you disagree and she needs to share... you cannot force another but you can remind her that paths are either taken together or separate.... how does she choose to move forward?

Attainable boundaries... place them and mean them. These are for you, not her.

Your daily life is already impacted... time to begin directing it instead of allowing it to direct you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Sinjin

I am the type that needed to hear the details. My mind ran completely wild with what they did together. The way to stop this is to know the details, but I must warn you first. The fact she feels she shouldn't disclose the details is quite telling, there is way more then she's telling you. She will tell you it's humiliating, it will only hurt YOU more, she is protecting her affair. So what to do? The details are hard to hear, and every word she tells you, well you will recall them years from now with extreme clarity. I can remember my wife's words as she told me the details very well today. 

There are several things you need to do now. If they are working together that must end. They will still communicate at work and you need to establish no contact whatsoever. If she must quit, oh well, loves her job, oh well. Next she needs to tell you the name of the OM. If she refuses you are done talking. If she tells you ask for his phone number. AFTER you get the phone number ask if he is married. If he is you call his wife, you need to expose this to his wife. One other thing, if she just confessed out of the blue you have a bigger problem. She most likely confessed because OMW found out. That means she's doing damage control and telling you first.

Next you need to take a day off work, don't tell your wife. You then surprise your wife at work with a dozen roses to take her out to lunch. Just before you leave, ask that OM join the both of you. This will make your wife have a panic attack along with OM. As you know they will both refuse to go, but if they do its a great time to ask OM questions to verify your wife's story. During this time you must tell your wife to remain silent and looking at the floor. No hidden signals this way. At the end you tell OM if he talks to your wife again you will tell the employer and the HR department. 

Tell your wife she needs to get in IC immediately and start MC a month later. I would wait to make any decision to divorce or reconcile for at least six months. Your wife not telling you the details already proves she is not ready to reconcile. 

I would get started with this first and then move on to other areas. Workplace affairs are very difficult to end and discover. So you will have your work cut out for you.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

sinjin said:


> I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a *one time physical encounter *with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened.


Pfft.... yeah right.




sinjin said:


> Any and all advice would be appreciated.


Step one is for her to stop lying.....


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## sinjin (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post. My wife told me 6 months ago about the A. We have spent the last 6 months sorting through a lot of the stuff you all have recommended. I have done a great deal of digging and think we have a handle on the truth part of it. I am still working on some parts of that (and always will be I am afraid) but I think we have settled most of those issues. We have had a lot of very pointed conversations and I am sure there will be more. She is doing/has done a lot of the things you all recommended. I have picked up a few more to use as well. I am not naive enough to think I don't need to keep an eye on things but my real concern now is me and how I am dealing with it. I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

sinjin said:


> Hello all. First post after lurking for a while.
> 
> I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.


So @sinjin, I'm going to make these assumptions based on what you've written: 1) That your D-Day was 6 months ago, but the affair itself was years ago (in other words, not relatively recent). 2) That from the time of the affair in the past to the present, your wife was faithful in action and heart. 3) That the two of you have mutually chosen to save your marriage. 4) That both of you--her and you--have done work to actually rebuild a new marriage. 5) That you are not asking us if there's more to it or if you should divorce--you've already worked through that to your satisfaction; you just want to address these three problems: 



> 1. I am having a really tough time forgiving her fully. What she did seems so selfish to me and I just can't quite bring myself to FULLY forgive. I am not sure how to get over that hump. I feel like I am angry all of the time and mostly manage to keep it in check but if I can't figure out a way to forgive her I won't be able get past this.


This is actually pretty typical--forgiving an affair is a pretty tall order! But my thought is that if you want to forgive there are two things that might help you. A) Study forgiveness. What is it? How do you do it? What does it mean? What is actually involved? I would recommend reading books about forgiveness, Googling "forgiveness" and just in general finding out all you can about the process of forgiving. 

B) Forgiveness is a choice. Most people I know think they have not forgiven because they don't "FEEL LIKE" they've forgiven...or they don't "FEEL" forgiveness. But in real life, much like love, forgiveness is not a 'feeling' but an action--a CHOICE. Up to this point, you have been the one to whom recompense was due and she has been the one who owed the recompense to you. Forgiveness means making the DECISION to release your claim for requital. 

Now I can't tell how YOU will forgive, but for me I made the decision to lay down my right to reprisal, but I did not really feel it much at all. I just released the right and then when the thought or feeling or temptation came to pick it back up, I reminded myself that I had chosen to put it down and would NOT pick it back up. At first, the temptation to pick it back up as my "ace in the hole" for an argument was enormous...and frequent! But as time passed, I felt that temptation less and less. As I controlled my mind and told myself "STOP IT" every time it popped in my head, I began to feel it. 

Another thing I did to help visualize it and solidify it, for me, was that I wrote on a piece of paper everything I felt I was due because of the affair. I can honestly say I REALLY let it rip and was not kind or gentle on that page! I wrote every vengeful, hateful retribution I could think of on that paper to get it out of my system. Then I did a ceremony. I took the paper outside to my garden and burned the paper, to symbolize that it was gone forever by choice. And as the paper burned I set it in the garden to be fertilizer for flowers...so that beauty grew from my symbolic forgiveness. See what I mean? All that revenge was released and purposefully let go by burning, and by "letting it go" I made flowers grow...a great symbol. 

So when I was tempted to pick up the right to recompense, I just talked back to myself: "STOP IT! You burned that right, remember? Remember the flames and the smoke rising up? Letting it go caused the flowers to be beautiful. You can not pick up and put the ashes back together. Let it go."



> 2. I can't get the images of her with the OM out of my head. We have never discussed the act itself in any detail so my imagination runs wild. She has said she thought it would be easier to get past if we don't discuss the details. I am not so sure. Is it better to know the gory details or not?


You know what? No one can tell you this, because for some the gory details are damaging and hurtful--for others the gory details are like rooting out every inch of cancer. So for this one, I'm afraid you are going to have to decide for yourself and then live with the choice you made. We can't do your thinking for you, and I suspect if you did a "poll" it would be about 50-50! So this is pretty much the same as forgiveness--make a choice and then enjoy the benefit of the choice you made, and accept the cost of the choice you made. Whatever you decide is between YOU and your wife, and I'd say just decide and then stick with that decision. 



> 3. The last issue is that we live in a small town so there is no one for me to really talk to about this without word getting out and affecting our daily lives and hence our ability to possibly work through this. We move in the same basic circles and telling one person would be like telling a lot of people. So I am trying to deal with it on my own and that is really tough. I sometimes feel if I could just vent to someone I would be able to move forward. I need some way to release all of the pent up stuff I am carrying around. I guess that is why I came to TAM.


Well, I'm not sure it's "good news" but the good news is that here at TAM you'll find a group of folks who understand how you feel and where you're coming from because we've been there/done that. Some even got the t-shirt! (giggle) This may be a great place for you to just be able to say what you need to say and then move forward.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sinjin said:


> Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post. My wife told me 6 months ago about the A. We have spent the last 6 months sorting through a lot of the stuff you all have recommended. I have done a great deal of digging and think we have a handle on the truth part of it. I am still working on some parts of that (and always will be I am afraid) but I think we have settled most of those issues. We have had a lot of very pointed conversations and I am sure there will be more. She is doing/has done a lot of the things you all recommended. I have picked up a few more to use as well. I am not naive enough to think I don't need to keep an eye on things but my real concern now is me and how I am dealing with it. I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...


So is she still working w/ the guy or what?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How long ago did her infidelity happen?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

What is your wife's take on this. If she is completely repentant why did you need to do some digging? How did you find out?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

sinjin said:


> Hello all. First post after lurking for a while.
> 
> I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.
> 
> ...


1. It seems selfish because it was selfish, plan and simple selfish. 

2. At this point it's not helping you to not know, so you might as well know. Maybe it's not as bad as you thought. Make not mistake she is protecting herself as much as you. The images may go away with time, or they may not. That is just the way it is. 

3. I hope she hasn't made this demand on you, it's also selfish. I get not telling the whole world but you need to tell some close friends. 

So far you have not painted a picture of a very remorseful spouse. She sounds like she just wants you to rug-sweep. Having read lots of threads, and I am sure you have too, how do you even know you have the full truth yet. 

What has she done to make herself safer, what is her penance so to speak.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lordmayhem said:


> Well folks, how many times have read read this? Straight out of the cheaters handbook in Chapter 1 - Trickle Truth
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every single day. Day after day. It's hard to take. There is about 3 posts in the last day that I could just copy and paste my answers to. :crying:


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

sinjin said:


> Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post. My wife told me 6 months ago about the A. We have spent the last 6 months sorting through a lot of the stuff you all have recommended. I have done a great deal of digging and think we have a handle on the truth part of it. I am still working on some parts of that (and always will be I am afraid) but I think we have settled most of those issues. We have had a lot of very pointed conversations and I am sure there will be more. She is doing/has done a lot of the things you all recommended. I have picked up a few more to use as well. I am not naive enough to think I don't need to keep an eye on things but my real concern now is me and how I am dealing with it. I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...


OP,
First realization you must accept is that right now there is no "next". For you, at this time, there is only now. In order for you to reach a place where you can carefully calculate your "next" move you must have some fixed points of thought. Currently your mind has only variables. Your mind cannot formulate a "next" until you have a foundation on which to build. "Next" requires ordered, rational thought and right now you only have chaos in your mind.

It is really up to your WW what you do "next" much more so than you because until you know, with some certainty, that she is absolutely committed to this M then any "next" you do will be based on supposition. Therefore do not concern yourself so much with what you should do "next" but rather have patience and allow yourself time to sort out the chaos in your mind. If she is intent on saving the M, she will help you do this with unwavering determination.

As she does the things necessary to bring order to your thoughts you will begin to see a path forward. Likewise, if she does not, then that path too will become clearer. Understand that six months is not necessarily enough time to digest such a life altering event. I have heard numbers such as 2-5 years for true R. You are at the beginning of your difficult journey so allow yourself the necessary time to make a calm, reasoned and careful decision about what comes "next".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@sinjin It will be tough but you can get through this. 

Eventually it does get better.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

sinjin said:


> I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...


Lets drill down on the "mind movies". What are they and how do they come about? If you put them in their simplest form, its you thinking about another man enjoying her "attributes" while giving her pleasure. While only you should be enjoying and pleasing her in this manner, nature trumps the belief that only you can do it. There are many, many men that can enjoy and please your wife and you, me, and every other guy may as well accept that. It's like my granddaddy use to say, "boy, if you ever think youre the only one with a mule capable of plowing that field, you ain't doin nothing but fooling yourself." 
If you remove the cheating factor and the lack of loyalty she displayed , and boil it all down to just the pleasure derived from sex with another, ( you know, "I can stand it to think about her doing the deed with another man") its really not a hell of a lot different than guys with wives and girlfriends who a had previous relationships. I guess if I desired, I could play mind movies and ring my hands over what my wife and her previous boyfriends or ex-husband got out of having sex with each other, with imaginary close up of their genitalia in action and pretend its some kind of magic going on, I could . It ain't. If you just become exclusive with a chick who you had begun dating in a more or less casual relationship would you have mind movies about some cat she may have slept with just before or just after your first casual date?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If she is saying it will be easier if you don't know the details of the sex act two things jump to mind;

1. She really, really enjoyed it and it was only her guilt over betraying you that eventually stopped her. (Or more than likely - the OM stopped the A by dumping her)
2. She did things with him that she has never done with you or things she has refused to do with you.

Sorry. 

If either of these is true, you have to accept that she will now forever think of the A with fond memories.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

1. Its a reasonable conclusion she enjoyed it. Unless the OM was completely unskilled, women generally enjoy sex with a man they choose to lay down with. 

2. She can easily say "all we did was conventional booty call, doggy style, sex with no eye contact and no extras. At best it was fair to midland." If she refuses to take a poly to confirm it, you have a mexican standoff.

In either case, its likely to be an exercise in futility. He either decide to continue to live with her or he doesn't. Personally, I'd like to hear what she was thinking when she decided to sleep with the other cat. I'd hope it wouldn't be, "I'd never f--ked this guy if he hadn't been f--king my sister."


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## sinjin (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks all. We are still working on it and I appreciate the advice. She no longer works with the OM. We was a player and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. A lot of my digging after my wife told me was to find out more about the OM.

Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts. Nothing overtly sexual, just racy. You could tell the OM was the pursuer in the relationship. I confronted her and she came clean. The reason she had been acting funny was because of the guilt of what she'd done. She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up. She has done everything I could ask of her since. I think we can get past this if I can get past the things troubling me. Again, I am not so naive as to think she was blameless so I still keep an eye on things to make sure...


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

i asked you if she confessed the affair or if you found out about via other means.

Your response was:



sinjin said:


> Thanks all for the great advice. I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post. My wife told me 6 months ago about the A.


Then you wrote:



sinjin said:


> I confronted her and she came clean.


She didn't just "tell you about the affair".

_She did not confess until you confronted her with indisputable evidence._

At which point she confirmed only what you already knew. Nothing more. 

You sir are in a fair amount of denial and you are giving your wife way too much credit as to how honest and forthcoming she has been with you, and you will most likely live to regret it.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Good luck my man and keep things in perspective.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

browser said:


> She didn't just "tell you about the affair".
> 
> _She did not confess until you confronted her with indisputable evidence._
> 
> At which point she confirmed only what you already knew. Nothing more.


Exactly...

Minimizing the affair is the only card in the deck your W has left to play.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sinjin said:


> Thanks all. We are still working on it and I appreciate the advice. *She no longer works with the OM.* We was a player and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. A lot of my digging after my wife told me was to find out more about the OM.
> 
> Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts. Nothing overtly sexual, just racy. You could tell the OM was the pursuer in the relationship. I confronted her and she came clean. The reason she had been acting funny was because of the guilt of what she'd done. She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up. She has done everything I could ask of her since. I think we can get past this if I can get past the things troubling me. Again, I am not so naive as to think she was blameless so I still keep an eye on things to make sure...


So which of the two of them left for a different job?


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

sinjin

I suggest reading the earlier post by Affaircare - also google (it's on here somewhere) CWI Strategy - not sure if it is legal to post url here.

Forgiveness - this if FOR YOU. Please start reading about it. When you forgive, the hate and hurt will greatly diminish.

Forget? No, never - the event is burned into your memory until death. This is the hardest part. It never goes completely away. With time it will affect you less and the memory will pop up less often. T his is maybe the hardest part of Reconciliation.

My wife had an affair over 30 years ago. It still in my mind almost daily. The trust has never fully returned.
However, my life is much better with her than it would be without her. How will you be going forward?

When is happened, I offered her divorce without any strings. and a "please go" unless you can come clean. She broke and
started showing remorse. She still does show remorse if some event reminds her.

Your wife? Remorse? Timeline? Accountability? Are you going to bare your heart on chance she will again wander?

Regarding the mind movies. If you really want to visualize what she did - tell her you want to know. My suggestion is to visit some porn sites with the explicit depiction of the act of copulation - have here watch with you. 

Her attitude and/or willingness to do so will be very telling.

Before getting off my soap box - don't "stay for the children" - my parents did that and I still deal with some of the effects.
Kids don't need the kind of memories of the broken relationship of their parents. It warps them.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Aftercare*
> This is actually pretty typical--forgiving an affair is a pretty tall order! But my thought is that if you want to forgive there are two things that might help you. A) Study forgiveness. What is it? How do you do it? What does it mean? What is actually involved? I would recommend reading books about forgiveness, Googling "forgiveness" and just in general finding out all you can about the process of forgiving.



I just want to pass along some information that may expand Aftercare’s post above and may help you with some of your concerns and questions about forgiveness. The first is from Mayo Clinic and the second from Berkley Web Site



Forgiveness: Letting go of grudges and bitterness - Mayo Clinic

*Forgiveness*
These wounds can leave you with lasting feelings of anger, bitterness or even vengeance — but if you don't practice forgiveness, you might be the one who pays most dearly. By embracing forgiveness, you can also embrace peace, hope, gratitude and joy. *Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.
What is forgiveness?*

Generally, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge

Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. 


How do I reach a state of forgiveness?
Forgiveness is a commitment to a process of change. To begin, you might: 
•	Consider the value of forgiveness and its importance in your life at a given time
•	Reflect on the facts of the situation, how you've reacted, and how this combination has affected your life, health and well-being
•	When you're ready, actively choose to forgive the person who's offended you
•	Move away from your role as victim and release the control and power the offending person and situation have had in your life

As you let go of grudges, you'll no longer define your life by how you've been hurt. You might even find compassion and understanding. 




By Berkeley education web site
Forgiveness Definition | Greater Good

What Is Forgiveness?
*Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness*.



My comments below are based upon my degree of forgiveness:

You already know that Not forgiving is detrimental to your wellbeing. I like the definition of forgiveness that is presented by the Berkeley Web site as stated in bold above. Your anger and difficulty in dealing with forgiveness is totally understandable especially since you are only 6 months away from D-day. I hope you noticed that the definition above states a decision to release feelings of RESENTMENT and VENGENCE. What is NOT included is that you having positive and loving feeling for your wife. That may occur or maybe some has occurred already but do not feel like you are failing if they do not prove to be present in your emotions at this time.

*To be blunt, part of your thinking and incentive towards forgiveness involves you wanting to forgive so that YOU can get better!* You have to believe that forgiveness will help you get better and then do the work until you see the results. I want to bring your attention to the quote by Mayo Clinic in bold below:

*"Consider how forgiveness can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being."
*
Another action that I used to forgive was that I did some introspection of myself and saw where I could build myself up in body, mind and spirit, and then I got busy improving in those areas. I am not suggesting that your areas that you could improve in were the reason that your wife betrayed you; this is not about looking for blame but to get you to focus on you so you can get better.

I also got a lot closer to my other family members and did not 100% depend on my emotional healing coming from my WS. In fact I worked at getting myself more self-sufficient and not to put too much of my emotional health back into the hands of my wife. I am not saying that you detach from your wife, I am saying that you get a proper balance in your emotional nourishments.

The damage that betrayal does is very significant and deep and if you have any idealism about marriage then you will have to accept the new realities.
I have over 20 years of R and have a good life, have a good relationship with my o wife most of the time, and have a very close relationship with my children and grandchildren.* I believed God that I should forgive as I have been forgiven and that God rewards obedience and grace. After years my life convinced me that God is faithful.
*


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

sinjin said:


> Mostly I knew something was up by the way she was acting then I found some racy texts.
> I confronted her and she came clean.


First off she didn’t spontaneously tell you about her “one time physical encounter.” You found evidence. It may not have been iron clad about sex but it was proof of bad behavior. The way you tell it she was so eaten up by guilt that she jumped at the chance to spill her guts at the first opportunity.

If I did something I was terribly guilty about I wouldn’t be exchanging racy texts with my accomplice. 

That’s called reminiscing. 
Reminisce: indulge in enjoyable recollection of past events

One time physical experience + AP still available = Very unlikely but possible
One time physical experience + AP still available + Racy texts (after experience) = No way one time


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

sinjin said:


> I am having a really tough time forgiving her fully. What she did seems so selfish to me and I just can't quite bring myself to FULLY forgive. I am not sure how to get over that hump. I feel like I am angry all of the time and mostly manage to keep it in check but if I can't figure out a way to forgive her I won't be able get past this.
> 
> I feel like my inability to get a handle on my anger/forgiveness and the "movies" in my head are preventing us from moving any further forward. Not sure what to do next...
> 
> She was raised very religious and the guilt was eating her up.


Understand that you are very normal. The problem is that you had your wife of 30 years up on a pedestal. Men commonly do that if given half a chance. She is the woman they picked and went all in for. In sickness and in health, etc. Your wife was “very religious" to boot. 

She was special and you were special because only you could have sex with her. The woman you knew for 30 years would have never done what she did. You paid full price and the OM got it for free. She risked everything to give it to him to boot.

Now she want's the reward of a faithful wife and to grow old with a nice stable family man like you. I read about a guy in your situation that had just decided to try R with his WW. Then she hurt her back and he had to wait on her had and foot. What ate him up is the OM should be doing it. After all he got the exciting dates.

What will help you is to understand that your wife was not as good as you thought she was. Maybe she never was. She’s human. If you had thought less of her all along this would be easier to take. She will never will be as special to you as she once was. How could she be? It’s not a problem with you. It's a problem of what she did for some extra fun on the side. You just have to face your new reality. It's like planning to be a doctor for your entire life and then realizing that you will never get into medical school. 

Now that your wife is off the pedestal do you still want to be married to her? Is she good enough warts and all? That's what you have to figure out.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

sinjin said:


> She no longer works with the OM. He was a *player* and she was a notch on the bedpost so to speak. I think he targets lonely/bored/frustrated wives and then moves on to the next one once he gets what he wants. .


The following is a link to a letter written by a *“player.” 

*http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/364650-written-player.html

*Print it and give it to your wife.
*


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## Empty Shell of a Man (Jan 30, 2017)

sinjin said:


> Hello all. First post after lurking for a while.
> 
> I found out about 6 months ago my wife of almost 30 years had (what she swears is) a one time physical encounter with co-worker. I am mostly sure she is telling the truth and we have worked hard to get past what happened. We are both committed to saving our marriage. We are working the through the reasons why she did it and those sorts of things but I am having a tough time with a few things.
> 
> ...


Its unlikely that it was her first after 30 years of marriage. 
Do not blame yourself; that only plays into her need to justify. 
I am sorry she did this to you. 
For your mental health sake please try journaling (or even writing here!). Small town therapists are just like big city therapists and they gossip. It is just that in the small town it is more readily recognized. Confidentiality is for them a lofty notion they all make claim to but human nature needs to talk and enough detail will get out and you'll be recognized. 

Kick her out while you're thinking. At least it will let you feel like a man for now after what she took from you. There is a lot of mourning to do, including the loss of holidays, memories and the worst: 

never trusting her ever again. 

I am a new poster here, but a lurker and I noticed that there are more honest men here than in another forums. The ones dominated by women often say "forgiveness and staying together" are the same thing. They are not. 

Also therapists who make money off of your pain often come from broken homes themselves, so their advice is what it is. 

Let them men here help you talk things through. The first responder said that this was not likely her first time. 
He's right.

Also, it is WAY worse using imagination: make her tell you everything: full disclosure, if she wants you back...it must be on your terms. 

The devil you know is easier to deal with than the devil you don't know. 

Hang in, man, you did not deserve this after 30 years.


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## Empty Shell of a Man (Jan 30, 2017)

browser said:


> i asked you if she confessed the affair or if you found out about via other means.
> 
> Your response was:
> 
> ...


it may sound like he's digging at you, but getting to the truth is vital. You're going to be making life changing decisions; it must be based upon truth. 

You deserve the truth but more importantly, she needs truth. 

An affair is deception and if she is going to make things right, she has to "confess" (**** = same and logeo=confess), that is to not alter any of it...

she was led away because she wanted to be led away. She chose to answer texts. She chose to meet. She chose to inflict pain upon you that is unbearable. The only chance for surviiving is the truth. In denial, you postpone the pain. 

It is similar to strong addicts in recovery: man, they do not let themselves off the hook for a minute. 

But, if you don't want to know everything, I don't condemn you. I wish you the best. We all do what we can to survive and it is really hard. The more dedicated we were to our wives, the worst the betrayal. I project my own feelings here, so please know, whatever you must do, you must do...

I hope you are exercising, walking, etc, and eating right.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> I just want to pass along some information that may expand Aftercare’s post above and may help you with some of your concerns and questions about forgiveness. The first is from Mayo Clinic and the second from Berkley Web Site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post on forgiveness. At the beginning when I was full of resentment and bitterness I thought I could never get to a place where I have forgiven. I am getting there but making sure I do not leave my emotional health back into the hands of my husband is where I struggle. To me my H is supposed to be my other half, if I cannot trust him with my emotions then what is the point of marriage?
This is where I am now. I can continue in the marriage, probably have a fairly satisfying life but there will always be something missing. I am really struggling with that plus the fact I never got total disclosure. How do I deal with that? Sorry for hijacking thread.


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## sinjin (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks again to all for the great advice. I see now that this process will not be quick no matter how bad I want it to be...


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OP Please give us an update.?


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## sinjin (Jan 25, 2017)

Things seem to be going ok with my wife. She is definitely doing all of the things I have asked and seems committed to reconciliation. I am not seeing any evidence or signs that anything else is going on. Yet, for some reason I am still unable to stop being angry and hurt. I need to forgive her (for me really) but I just can't bring myself to tell her I forgive her yet. I have acknowledged her apology and remorse and even thanked her for it but I have never said "I forgive you." I am not sure she has noticed the difference. So right now I have good days and bad days and just when I feel I have turned the corner in getting over this I have a bad day and it seems like I am back to square one. I do appreciate the advice given (especially on forgiveness) and am working to utilize it. Thanks.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Remember this....this is not something you forgive someone like someone who cut you off driving, this is some one desecrated your marriage, your love, your trust....there no firgiveness right now your still raw with pain and anger, you to first heal, however long that may be and she needs to under stand that, she needs to understand your pain....and your anger....you need to get to a therapist....and if the therapist tells you to forgive...find a new therapist. Let and expect her to do all the heavy lifting.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Here is a sermon that helped me deal with forgiveness.






You can forgive and still divorce. Your old marriage ended with the affair. If you stay together, you both will have to start over again.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Firstly, it sounds like you need ALL the details of what went on - where, when, what was said, what was done, positions, protection, oral, anal, facials etc etc (sorry for the brutal vulgarity). You need to know how many times during that "one" encounter and who initiated each time. You need to say if anything was said about you or if she even thought of you. I am not sure you are going to get all this truthfully. I am not even sure that she is being truthful about it being just one time. Why would it be ? You confronted her and she admitted what you already knew - standard cheater textbook stuff.

If you found that she had done it at least twice then she would have admitted to just two times. And if you found out about more times after that, she would say she lied to protect you from the pain.

She needs to understand that you don't need "protection" from the pain from her - you need absolute honesty. A polygraph might help. You need to get the truth and the whole truth out of her.


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