# How long for trust to come back?



## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

How long does it take for trust to be rebuild in marriage or does it ever fully rebuilt itself.?

It’s been 2 years 4 months since I found out about my husband porn use and his lifelong lies and deceit he used to hide it from me. While I have made progress in forgiving him and rebuilding our marriage, as has he, I still at time get that sinking pit feeling in my stomach that he is still hiding things from me. Even when I know that the likely hood of him still looking at porn given our current lifestyle is slim, I still get anxious and then it makes me question everything.

Sometimes I feel like I’m sabotaging our marriage, or maybe i still feel like he should be punished for the amount of pain he caused me. We have 4 children so just walking away is not going to be easy and beside from my small lack of trust in him, we have a pretty good marriage and an even more wonderful family unit. One thing we do really well is parent our children. They are truly amazing people and we have a happy home for the most part.

What can I do to get full trust back in my husband? I don’t think he is all the problem here, I think he is behaving like this has been put behind us as i have been trying to do just that. I truly think he is clueless to how I feel sometimes. I don’t want to demonize him as he is a good husband and father, he just made bad choices.

Right now I feel like my marriage will be one of those marriages that either falls apart as soon as the youngest moves away or we will become like roommates and do our own thing. I feel that if I can’t get past this trust issue these are our two outcomes. I’m not sure how to talk to my husband about this as he is a very non confrontational person and does not like the fighting or dealing with issues and since the last 2 year have been pretty well non stop issues he just want to put this behind us and move on. 

Has anyone else gotten over a betrayal and had it turn out ok? How do I stop myself from letting this destroy my marriage?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> Right now I feel like my marriage will be one of those marriages that either falls apart as soon as the youngest moves away or we will become like roommates and do our own thing. I feel that if I can’t get past this trust issue these are our two outcomes. I’m not sure how to talk to my husband about this as he is a very non confrontational person and does not like the fighting or dealing with issues and since the last 2 year have been pretty well non stop issues he just want to put this behind us and move on.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten over a betrayal and had it turn out ok? How do I stop myself from letting this destroy my marriage?


Well, if sticking his head in the sand is how he deals with real issues, then you are beating a dead horse. Whether he likes it or not, he is the one who damaged the marriage, and he should be willing to do whatever it takes to help you regain trust and rebuild. That means being transparent with all his online activities, and answering every question you ask and acknowledging every insecurity you feel. How are you supposed to heal while he hides? Him wanting to rugsweep everything and forget about it isn't healthy and not conducive to helping you. You probably need to get into MC. 

Sometimes no matter how hard you both try, you cant get past what happened and can never feel trust for that person again. Its just how it is, and its ok if that is what happens, at least you can be assured that you tried, and have a good idea of your personal boundaries and limits going forward.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If he doesn't consistently DO everything and anything to hand you peace of mind on a silver platter you'll never trust him.

Trust is earned.

If he isn't earning it back - you have nothing to work with.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Beach123 said:


> If he doesn't consistently DO everything and anything to hand you peace of mind on a silver platter you'll never trust him.
> 
> Trust is earned.
> 
> If he isn't earning it back - you have nothing to work with.


I do have full access to his accounts and phone but you can hide things so easily now a days. I did have a filter on the computer to stop adult content from being displayed but it would constantly block things it should not have blocked. He was getting upset about my checking all the time and felt like I was never going to trust him again and that it was unhealthy for me to be obsessing about it so much. He was kind of right about the fact that i was getting obsessed but i still felt like he wanted to have some privacy back so i gave it to him. He told me his was sorry that his action has made me into the non trusting person i have become. 

He has changed a lot of things and has tried to earn it back, I think he is frustrated that I was taking so long and felt like this was going to a life sentence for him. I can be obsessive and I can make a mountain out of a molehill at times so I dropped my concerns I had with our issues and started to trust him and not check up all the time. It was going ok, but i feel like now we are in the process of trying to start a business and part of me is not sure our marriage would survive the long hours we will have to be apart and the time we will have to dedicate to the business. If i’m at home with the kids and he is out till 12 am running our business I feel that little lack of trust i have for him now is going to completely control my every thoughts about what he is doing while he is away from me.

I feel like now that what I have surpressed to keep the peace should now be addressed as to stop future conflicts when we open our business. I am not wanting to walk away from my marriage until my kids are gone, leaving now is not an option for me but if things continue the way they are going, once my youngest is gone I may be gone too.

Should I tell him my concerns and maybe let him decide if he wants to continue trying to fix this, or if we want to step back and wait out our time till the kids leave. Saying this makes me so sad as we have the potential to have a great relationship and i feel like my lack of trust is causing unesssary problems. I also feel like bringing these issues to him again is going to make him feel hopeless on fixing our marriage and just upset him and cause conflict in our marriage again. We have been getting along well for the last little while.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm confused and don't want to wrongly advise you. Is he still using porn? Are you having a healthy sexual relationship? Because he seems to tick the box in other areas and it would be a shame for your marriage to be under constant threat because of past mistakes. Are you still punishing him (not literally) for ancient history?

I remember your story very well 

For me it wasn't so much about regaining trust it was more that I had to rethink what had happened and look to the larger picture. So it wasn't so much the porn that was threatening me, it was the lack of sex or attention. So whilst the marriage was holistically doing well, the subject porn slowly began to seem like a trifle - I just stopped caring. For me this was easier to achieve than constantly feeling suspicious, which is actually exhausting. The things we are dealing with at the moment make any amount of pornography appear fairly innocuos. Hope that makes sense.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> I'm confused and don't want to wrongly advise you. Is he still using porn? Are you having a healthy sexual relationship? Because he seems to tick the box in other areas and it would be a shame for your marriage to be under constant threat because of past mistakes. Are you still punishing him (not literally) for ancient history?
> 
> I remember your story very well
> 
> For me it wasn't so much about regaining trust it was more that I had to rethink what had happened and look to the larger picture. So it wasn't so much the porn that was threatening me, it was the lack of sex or attention. So whilst the marriage was holistically doing well, the subject porn slowly began to seem like a trifle - I just stopped caring. For me this was easier to achieve than constantly feeling suspicious, which is actually exhausting. The things we are dealing with at the moment make any amount of pornography appear fairly innocuos. Hope that makes sense.


No I don’t feel like he is using porn, our sex life is not bad maybe 2 or 3 times a week but then we have both been working a lot and have been juggling a lot more than normal. A lot of the reason I started to stop mentioning my worries and stop with all the sleuthing was I didn’t want him to feel like I was constantly punishing him for my insecurities. I feel maybe that while life was normal and settled and we had a great routine going it was easier to not let my worries and concerns control me. Now i feel that the prospect of having a new business and all the stress and long hours that comes with it is going to push those fleeting thoughts to the surface.

I don’t want to punish my husband forever and for a while there I was feeling better about things. Should I maybe sit him down and tell him my concerns with what is going to happen when the business opens. We will be spending more time apart than we normally do and i have concerns that if our marriage suffers and our sex life suffers it’s going to cause all those old feeling and doubts to resurface in a big way.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> Sometimes I feel like I’m sabotaging our marriage, or maybe i still feel like he should be punished for the amount of pain he caused me.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten over a betrayal and had it turn out ok? How do I stop myself from letting this destroy my marriage?



Set aside the topic of porn... Do you and your husband share similar views and habits when it comes to the topic of masturbation? If not you two should work first to try and reconcile any differences you have regarding beliefs/habits about masturbation so that you can understand and appreciate each other's sexuality better. 

Some people believe that only a spouse should be allowed to discover things about themselves sexually. Others may believe that you have to already discover yourself sexually in order to share that with a spouse. 

Once you settle that topic, THEN move onto discussing porn and how it might relate to what you have just learned about one another. 

Not an easy discussion, but necessary if you want to know each other better and learn how to love and accept each other's differences. Doing so by embracing each other's vulnerabilities on the topic should also serve to rebuild trust.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

I guess the question for you is - why are you choosing this hill to die on? I just took a brief look at your threads and maybe I'm missing some of the plot, but it didn't seem like he was addicted in any sense. Porn "use" by men isn't exactly uncommon. I've seen threads by women where there *IS* a clear impact to the marriage but that didn't seem to be the case here. You seem to have a pretty decent sex life, he's otherwise a loving husband and good father, etc.

So help me understand - why the trauma on this with him?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Would you elaborate on the details of what the problems are? I don't have time to pick through your other threads, so just a summary would help.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I do have full access to his accounts and phone but you can hide things so easily now a days. I did have a filter on the computer to stop adult content from being displayed but it would constantly block things it should not have blocked. He was getting upset about my checking all the time and felt like I was never going to trust him again and that it was unhealthy for me to be obsessing about it so much. He was kind of right about the fact that i was getting obsessed but i still felt like he wanted to have some privacy back so i gave it to him. He told me his was sorry that his action has made me into the non trusting person i have become.
> 
> He has changed a lot of things and has tried to earn it back, I think he is frustrated that I was taking so long and felt like this was going to a life sentence for him. I can be obsessive and I can make a mountain out of a molehill at times so I dropped my concerns I had with our issues and started to trust him and not check up all the time. It was going ok, but i feel like now we are in the process of trying to start a business and part of me is not sure our marriage would survive the long hours we will have to be apart and the time we will have to dedicate to the business. If i’m at home with the kids and he is out till 12 am running our business I feel that little lack of trust i have for him now is going to completely control my every thoughts about what he is doing while he is away from me.
> 
> ...


Have you tried marriage counseling? Have you ever caught your husband lying about other issues small or large? I ask that because I wonder if there's more to it for you than the porn issue. Is he doing stupid little things that are slowing your progress in regaining trust. Trust is a hard thing to get back once lost. 

The other question I guess I have is does he actually feel bad about this. It sounds like he wasn't really on board with the no porn rule, I assume he was fully aware this was a deal breaker for you. 

I knew a couple, and the guy part had a really bad relationship with a girl who would go out with friends and get drunk and flirt and then come home and be a royally nasty drunk. 

So years later his fiance agreed to not drink when out with friends if he wasn't there. But she never really thought of it as a big deal because she wasn't an out of control drunk, it was a different situation. But one night she went to a friends bachelorette party and got pretty hammered. She came home not nasty but silly drunk. He went ballistic and called off the engagement, he felt it was a huge betrayal akin to cheating. It was a complete disconnect between the two on the subject. She didn't see having drinks with friends as a big deal at all and for him it was a much bigger issue. 

Clearly the above situation is a bit more grey area than simply porn or no porn but it's the degree to which each party are truly on board with boundaries. If he was 100% on board with this rule then I would expect him to be more remorseful and be trying harder to work with you on the trust issue. Clearly he wasn't. 

Boundaries are boundaries and should be clearly defined and adhered to in any relationship, some are more important to one party than the other but both parties should be well aware of the deal breakers and consequences. 

If he has done nothing else to give you doubt I think there is hope you can regain your trust and I'm a little concerned you have not been able to get there in almost 2 1/2 years. But he is going to have to really acknowledge how big a deal this was. Would he be open to a failsafe spy software on his computer and devices. There are programs out there that will screenshot continuously so even if some one uses private browsing or other stuff what they are doing is still recorded. 

Also if he has been well behaved and given you no reason to not trust since this major issue, you do have some work to do on yourself while he continues to work also.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> The other question I guess I have is does he actually feel bad about this. It sounds like he wasn't really on board with the no porn rule, I assume he was fully aware this was a deal breaker for you.


This is a great question to ask. I know porn use is a really polarizing topic (especially on these boards) that each person brings in their own preconceived notions on. There's probably a bit of a split too between men and women. If he 'agreed' to not use under some duress from her but doesn't think it's a huge deal then he's far more likely to backslide. An agreement under threat or pressure isn't an agreement at all. 

Reminds me of overly strict parents setting unrealistic rules for their kids and then getting completely bent out of shape when they find out they didn't listen and lied.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> I don’t want to punish my husband forever and for a while there I was feeling better about things. Should I maybe sit him down and tell him my concerns with what is going to happen when the business opens. We will be spending more time apart than we normally do and i have concerns that if our marriage suffers and our sex life suffers it’s going to cause all those old feeling and doubts to resurface in a big way.


Its always a good idea to voice your concerns but its the way we communicate which is key. You want to avoid like the plague a sense of being accusatory or naggin or making him feel ashamed. However, its better to be honest how you are feeling and gives him an opportunity to reassure you in some way.

I'll be honest, the only solution to my own marital problems was to stop focusing so much on the porn and concentrate on just living in the now. I remember I used to try and wake up earlier than my H (hard because he is a very early riser and I'm a lazy bones) to try and catch him out. That amount of emotional energy seems exhausting to me now and actually did nothing to enhance our marriage. So I just try not to think about it too much and concentrate on myself and what I can do to make things better. I have found over time I have just gotten a thicker skin and feel a lot more secure about myself. 

Also, time apart has been very beneficial. I am enjoying spending time with other people and socializing outside my marriage. I don't put all my eggs in one basket. For example; I had a night out recently and stayed over at a friends. Friend asked if H minded me staying over and I said 'Don't worry about him he is probably at the masturbation stage as we speak'. It was sort of a joke...I knew he was probably taking advantage of me not being around, but because I was out having fun I didn't really care. I realised it isn't my husband's responsibility to fix my insecurities and make me feel likeable and loveable. 

I'm rambling..hope it helps. x


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He doesn't get to dictate how long it takes you to heal.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Have you tried marriage counseling? Have you ever caught your husband lying about other issues small or large? I ask that because I wonder if there's more to it for you than the porn issue. Is he doing stupid little things that are slowing your progress in regaining trust. Trust is a hard thing to get back once lost.





Ok I have been giving this a lot of thought as to why I feel like trust is not coming back and I have come up with some things that my husband does. I am not sure if these are non issues for most people or if my sensitivity to lying is making them a bigger deal than they should be. Of all the examples I am giving I have not confronted my husband about them as I didn’t want to start a fight over what could be silly things.

Months ago I was in my husband car and I commented that the passenger side seat was moved. I asked who was sitting there. He replied no one sits there. I let it drop. I find out later that a text was sent to him at night from his boss asking if he would pick up a female employee and take her to work. He didn’t reply to the text, but the next morning he called her back in the car on the way to work. I feel he called back instead of text as he knows i have access to his phone but can’t hear his calls. I have no idea if he did pick this employee up or not as nothing was mentioned to me. Is this odd behavior? If I drove or picked up a person of the opposite sex as a favour i would mention it to my husband. 

Second he walks with a man and woman who are married at work on his lunch break. Well that couple went away for a month and he continued to walk but with a female coworker alone. He never mentioned this once. Is that something a married man would tell his wife?

We were sitting in the hair salon, not a large place you can hear everything. I was waiting for him in the waiting room and I could hear him plain as day but could not see him. A woman he knew approached him and he made ideal chit chat with her. I am assume it was a coworker cause he asked how her daughter was feeling and that he would see her tommorow. When he finished his hair cut and we left he mentioned nothing of this encounter. Not even a, I ran into so and so.

When ever I asked or question about why he didn’t tell me something he tends to get angry or irritated and i don’t know why. I am more concerned over why he doesn’t want to tell me these things than the information he doesn't share. I don’t think he is doing anything wrong but who know. He did manage to lie and hide things from me for 15 years. I almost feel like it is a power struggle as he had to give up so much freedom when all the porn and lies came out that now he almost resent me knowing anything and keeps silly things from me as a way to regain some lost freedom or control? 

I am at a loss. Are these issues that i should be concerned about or is it just typical male behavior?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

BigDigg said:


> This is a great question to ask. I know porn use is a really polarizing topic (especially on these boards) that each person brings in their own preconceived notions on. There's probably a bit of a split too between men and women. If he 'agreed' to not use under some duress from her but doesn't think it's a huge deal then he's far more likely to backslide. An agreement under threat or pressure isn't an agreement at all.
> 
> Reminds me of overly strict parents setting unrealistic rules for their kids and then getting completely bent out of shape when they find out they didn't listen and lied.


I have often wondered and felt like he resents me for having control over whether or not he watches porn or even the fact that he has to be an open book. I don’t know if he views this as controlling him, and maybe I am? He made a choice to choose me over porn so I feel it is unfair to punish me for the choices he made. I know it was an impossible decision for him and it did put his back against the wall but It is a no go issue for me, especially the lying that came with it. IF he had of been honest with me when we first dated that if sex was not frequent enough he would use porn, at least then I could have made a choice about whether to proceed with the relationship. We have 4 kids and a life together now, not really easy to just walk away.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> Ok I have been giving this a lot of thought as to why I feel like trust is not coming back and I have come up with some things that my husband does. I am not sure if these are non issues for most people or if my sensitivity to lying is making them a bigger deal than they should be. Of all the examples I am giving I have not confronted my husband about them as I didn’t want to start a fight over what could be silly things.
> 
> Months ago I was in my husband car and I commented that the passenger side seat was moved. I asked who was sitting there. He replied no one sits there. I let it drop. I find out later that a text was sent to him at night from his boss asking if he would pick up a female employee and take her to work. He didn’t reply to the text, but the next morning he called her back in the car on the way to work. I feel he called back instead of text as he knows i have access to his phone but can’t hear his calls. I have no idea if he did pick this employee up or not as nothing was mentioned to me. Is this odd behavior? If I drove or picked up a person of the opposite sex as a favour i would mention it to my husband.
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure, I don't see a huge problem with anything except the car thing IF he did pickup a female coworker and not tell you when asked about it. Though he could have moved the seat himself looking for something. On the hair salon thing I think you're overreacting there, It's not like he was whispering to hide anything. He was talking loud enough for you to clearly hear him from behind a wall. Maybe he assumed you heard him, did you ask him who he was talking to when he came out? The walking situation seems pretty normal also, he normally walks with a married couple they were gone so he walked with a different coworker.

Is there a related pattern to any of this? Is the potential passenger/walking partner the same person? None of this is out of the norm in my world. 

To be honest I think your husband is afraid of you. I think he is not telling you stuff out of fear of being grilled about it. 

Do you tend to have trust issues with other people besides your husband?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I'm not really sure, I don't see a huge problem with anything except the car thing IF he did pickup a female coworker and not tell you when asked about it. Though he could have moved the seat himself looking for something. On the hair salon thing I think you're overreacting there, It's not like he was whispering to hide anything. He was talking loud enough for you to clearly hear him from behind a wall. Maybe he assumed you heard him, did you ask him who he was talking to when he came out? The walking situation seems pretty normal also, he normally walks with a married couple they were gone so he walked with a different coworker.
> 
> Is there a related pattern to any of this? Is the potential passenger/walking partner the same person? None of this is out of the norm in my world.
> 
> ...



I think it is an issue with him not wanting to make me angry, but the not being open with me is making me angry. I don’t care about any of the things he hides or not mentions, what bothers me is that he hides and not mentions these things and it put me on the alert for watching out to see if he is lying to me again. 

I don’t know how to get him more comfortable with me to tell me things. None of these issues i listed above did I confront or grill him over, I just let them go as the main issues were not concerning. The fact that my husband is afraid to tell me things is concerning to me. 

Sometimes I feel like so much damage and hurt has been done to our marriage that neither of us are going to be able to let it go. My husband gets is so angry over anything I bring to him and he has lately had a tendancy to be just plain mean. Trying to talk to him about any concerns I have is like pulling teeth. He gets instantly defensive, sarcastic and mean. I feel like sometimes his main mission when we fight is to just emotionally hurt me.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I have often wondered and felt like he resents me for having control over whether or not he watches porn or even the fact that he has to be an open book. I don’t know if he views this as controlling him, and maybe I am? He made a choice to choose me over porn so I feel it is unfair to punish me for the choices he made. I know it was an impossible decision for him and it did put his back against the wall but It is a no go issue for me, especially the lying that came with it. IF he had of been honest with me when we first dated that if sex was not frequent enough he would use porn, at least then I could have made a choice about whether to proceed with the relationship. We have 4 kids and a life together now, not really easy to just walk away.


I think you are being somewhat unreasonable. Probably at that point early in the relationship the sex was frequent and he wasn't thinking about sex life after Marriage, Kids and the added stress of work. Most of us find out about all that after and we adapt, if the wife isn't in the mood, he may just needed to clean out the pipes. Porn was probably just a means to an end. He wasn't comparing the women to you or anything. Nobody really wants to force his wife into starfish sex.

You are going to have to make the decision whether you are willing to lose your marriage over a porn incident that happened several years ago. It sounds like he is a good husband and father, so I'm thinking it is probably not worth losing over. But if he feels like a prisoner in his own home, it could lead to resentment. Maybe Marriage Counseling would help you to move on from this?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think you are being somewhat unreasonable. Probably at that point early in the relationship the sex was frequent and he wasn't thinking about sex life after Marriage, Kids and the added stress of work. Most of us find out about all that after and we adapt, if the wife isn't in the mood, he may just needed to clean out the pipes. Porn was probably just a means to an end. He wasn't comparing the women to you or anything. Nobody really wants to force his wife into starfish sex.
> 
> You are going to have to make the decision whether you are willing to lose your marriage over a porn incident that happened several years ago. It sounds like he is a good husband and father, so I'm thinking it is probably not worth losing over. But if he feels like a prisoner in his own home, it could lead to resentment. Maybe Marriage Counseling would help you to move on from this?


I know that I have been unreasonable in the past, and they way I dealt with and handled this issue wasn’t always healthy. At first all I felt was my pain. I now know that I am 50% to blame for where our marriage is and that I need to improve the way i treat him. I have been doing this, trying to talk our problems through, let little things go and not hound him over every little detail. I just fear that maybe it’s a little too late and resentment, defensivness and anger is all I am going to get out of him. If everything is okay with us, he is fine. IF I have an issue that I want to talk to him about, he instantly becomes not fine.

I do not want to through my family about over porn, but i do not want to be with someone who gets mean, defensive and sarcastic when we disagree over something. I want to start fresh, but it feels like he just want to punish me for not being okay with him watching porn, or expecting him to be open and honest with me.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I think it is an issue with him not wanting to make me angry, but the not being open with me is making me angry. I don’t care about any of the things he hides or not mentions, what bothers me is that he hides and not mentions these things and it put me on the alert for watching out to see if he is lying to me again.
> 
> I don’t know how to get him more comfortable with me to tell me things. None of these issues i listed above did I confront or grill him over, I just let them go as the main issues were not concerning. The fact that my husband is afraid to tell me things is concerning to me.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like so much damage and hurt has been done to our marriage that neither of us are going to be able to let it go. My husband gets is so angry over anything I bring to him and he has lately had a tendancy to be just plain mean. Trying to talk to him about any concerns I have is like pulling teeth. He gets instantly defensive, sarcastic and mean. I feel like sometimes his main mission when we fight is to just emotionally hurt me.


You're involved in the chicken and the egg argument. He is very annoyed by feeling like he is being judged for not telling you every minute detail of his day, that's why his reaction is preloaded to go negative very quick. He's probably bottling up a lot of resentment surrounding this. In his mind he has never done anything wrong, he hasn't cheated and he's being made to feel like he's constantly lying when he doesn't tell you things that are of no consequence in his mind. 

So is behavior today whats causing you to act the way you're acting? or is the way you're acting causing him to act the way he's acting? At a certain point you suspicions go from being reasonable after the porn incident, to unreasonable two and a half years after. Unreasonable mistrust can eventually cause people to omit things they know are no big deal but expect to be judged or suspected of wrongdoing for. 

I think you need to put some effort into letting the suspicions go or the marriage is going to continue to unwind.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> So is behavior today whats causing you to act the way you're acting? or is the way you're acting causing him to act the way he's acting? At a certain point you suspicions go from being reasonable after the porn incident, to unreasonable two and a half years after. Unreasonable mistrust can eventually cause people to omit things they know are no big deal but expect to be judged or suspected of wrongdoing for.
> 
> I think you need to put some effort into letting the suspicions go or the marriage is going to continue to unwind.



I think he is not a very open person and forgets to tell me lots of things, even things i really need to know. I guess because of all the lies and hiding things in the past i guess I feel like by not knowing all these things about him or his day that we are going back into the same pattern as before. When something feels like it was deliberately kept from me, it puts me on high alert. I do understand that some of these issues are just my mind playing tricks on me and I do not bring or fight with him about them. I let them go. I guess lately I have been seeing a lot of changes in routine, attitude and just his plain demeanour. When I asked him if he was okay or wanted or needed to talk about anything he got instantly defensive and automatically assumed that I was accusing him for doing something. When he gives me this reaction he makes me feel like he is hiding something. There goes the circle we seem to be following. I wish he would be comfortable to tell me how he feels or how my words make him feel at that time but sadly he doesn’t and I’m afraid I really have no one to blame but myself for all the years of reacting badly to my husband. I do not know how to fix this so he feels comfortable with me to tell me anything.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I am at a loss. Are these issues that i should be concerned about or is it just typical male behavior?


So devils advocate here - life involves millions of small and non-noteworthy interactions with people everyday. To a normal couple there would be nothing to say or share. Do you share every detail about every person you interact with outside of your husband? If you have created an environment and marriage that is oppressively paranoid then it's natural for your husband to want withhold these small things lest they upset you and kickoff a round of unnecessary grilling or drama.

And yes...could be that your husband is sneaking around but also could be that your husband is a decent and normal chap capable of having normal daily interactions with the opposite sex without his pants flying off.

Again I don't know your full history so maybe your right in policing your husband that way. Maybe he's earned it which in that case you should think seriously of moving on and finding a relationship that can be healthy. But your posts in this thread tell me that you are deeply insecure about something and I believe you need to look inward and heal yourself. It must be miserable to be held hostage to constant fear. It must be miserable for your husband to live under so much suspicion too. Ask yourself - why does this matter to you? These little innocuous things?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> Sometimes I feel like so much damage and hurt has been done to our marriage that neither of us are going to be able to let it go. My husband gets is so angry over anything I bring to him and he has lately had a tendancy to be just plain mean. Trying to talk to him about any concerns I have is like pulling teeth. He gets instantly defensive, sarcastic and mean. I feel like sometimes his main mission when we fight is to just emotionally hurt me.


Then why in the world are you fighting to hard to stay with him?? Why would anyone stay with someone who treats them this way? Fighting for someone to stay and mistreat you doesn't make any sense, this is not how marriage is supposed to be. Especially with the rotten history your H has, he isn't worth having to tolerate this. 

You two do NOT sound happy together, maybe its time to let each other go....


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

BigDigg said:


> It must be miserable to be held hostage to constant fear. It must be miserable for your husband to live under so much suspicion too. Ask yourself - why does this matter to you? These little innocuous things?


It matter because I need to be in control. I had an uncontrollable childhood full of hurt and pain. Most of the problem in our marriage can be brought down to my control issues and my husband temper. 

I am changing this now and letting go of the control. A lot of these issues i have with my husband I never bring them to him cause I know they are not important in the bigger picture. What it tripping me up now is when I do feel like something is a real issue to me I sit on it for a few day to see if it was just as important to me 3 days from now as it was then. If it is i try to bring to my husband in a non confortational way. As soon as i question him about anything, he gets defensive, angry and mean. I understand that my constant suspicion and lack of trust has made him react this way but in doing so we never resolve any of the problems we have. He needs to not assume i am being unreasonable and accusing him of doing Things behind my back just because i have a question, just as I don’t assume or accuse him of things just because he fails to mention picking up a coworker. 

How do I get him to stop being defensive and assume the worst when all i want to do and just talk about a concern or issue in a mature contructive fashion. I feel I have beaten my husband into a defensive corner and I do not know how to help him out of it. Maybe I can’t.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I think he is not a very open person and forgets to tell me lots of things, even things i really need to know. I guess because of all the lies and hiding things in the past i guess I feel like by not knowing all these things about him or his day that we are going back into the same pattern as before. When something feels like it was deliberately kept from me, it puts me on high alert. I do understand that some of these issues are just my mind playing tricks on me and I do not bring or fight with him about them. I let them go. I guess lately I have been seeing a lot of changes in routine, attitude and just his plain demeanour. When I asked him if he was okay or wanted or needed to talk about anything he got instantly defensive and automatically assumed that I was accusing him for doing something. When he gives me this reaction he makes me feel like he is hiding something. There goes the circle we seem to be following. I wish he would be comfortable to tell me how he feels or how my words make him feel at that time but sadly he doesn’t and I’m afraid I really have no one to blame but myself for all the years of reacting badly to my husband. I do not know how to fix this so he feels comfortable with me to tell me anything.


Is he kind of an introvert and private person by nature? If so it might just be his nature. He picked up some coworker because his bossed asked him and didn't think anything of it being something he needed to elaborate on. I'm guessing he didn't want to bring it up because he feared your reaction would be to make it into something it was not. I think you need to talk about all this stuff, but you aren't going to get anywhere if there is antagonism. Sit down with a MC and talk about **** and air it out in a neutral environment. It helps if you find the right person.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> Ok I have been giving this a lot of thought as to why I feel like trust is not coming back and I have come up with some things that my husband does. I am not sure if these are non issues for most people or if my sensitivity to lying is making them a bigger deal than they should be. Of all the examples I am giving I have not confronted my husband about them as I didn’t want to start a fight over what could be silly things.
> 
> Months ago I was in my husband car and I commented that the passenger side seat was moved. I asked who was sitting there. He replied no one sits there. I let it drop. I find out later that a text was sent to him at night from his boss asking if he would pick up a female employee and take her to work. He didn’t reply to the text, but the next morning he called her back in the car on the way to work. I feel he called back instead of text as he knows i have access to his phone but can’t hear his calls. I have no idea if he did pick this employee up or not as nothing was mentioned to me. Is this odd behavior? If I drove or picked up a person of the opposite sex as a favour i would mention it to my husband.
> 
> ...



the seat was moved in the car so your husband is doing something devious? Really???? my guess as to why your husband mentions nothing to you is because you will blow it up into something that isn't.

he was polite at a salon chatting with a coworker...….so there must be something going on because he didn't say anything about it to you? this seems so obvious to me...….maybe because of your past catching him doing the worst thing in the world (cough) porn......that it now equates to anything and everything he is doing has some dark sinister side to it.

its no wonder he wont open up or talk to you. quit making.....as you said in your own words......mountains out of mole hills. and in your examples...….I don't even think they are mole hills. rather normal day to day life events that you are simply looking for anything to make into some sort of betrayl.

furthermore, at some point, the past does have to become the past.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> It matter because I need to be in control. I had an uncontrollable childhood full of hurt and pain. Most of the problem in our marriage can be brought down to my control issues and my husband temper.
> 
> I am changing this now and letting go of the control. A lot of these issues i have with my husband I never bring them to him cause I know they are not important in the bigger picture. What it tripping me up now is when I do feel like something is a real issue to me I sit on it for a few day to see if it was just as important to me 3 days from now as it was then. If it is i try to bring to my husband in a non confortational way. As soon as i question him about anything, he gets defensive, angry and mean. I understand that my constant suspicion and lack of trust has made him react this way but in doing so we never resolve any of the problems we have. He needs to not assume i am being unreasonable and accusing him of doing Things behind my back just because i have a question, just as I don’t assume or accuse him of things just because he fails to mention picking up a coworker.
> 
> How do I get him to stop being defensive and assume the worst when all i want to do and just talk about a concern or issue in a mature contructive fashion. I feel I have beaten my husband into a defensive corner and I do not know how to help him out of it. Maybe I can’t.


YOU NEED TO BE IN CONTROL?

did your husband sign a waiver agreeing for you to be the tyrant in your marriage the same way you got an agreement for no porn use?

wow.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Then why in the world are you fighting to hard to stay with him?? Why would anyone stay with someone who treats them this way? Fighting for someone to stay and mistreat you doesn't make any sense, this is not how marriage is supposed to be. Especially with the rotten history your H has, he isn't worth having to tolerate this.
> 
> You two do NOT sound happy together, maybe its time to let each other go....



I ask myself that question as well but i do see that some of this damage was done by me as well. I want to fix and change it but it seems like our routine is set in stone. We also have kids so walking away is not as easy. 

I feel a lot of angry from my husband over our past issues and i know some of that angry is at himself as well. I just want to try to heal him and myself. Maybe i am living in a fairy tale world but until my kids are older leaving for me is not the way i want to go. We make a great team in day to day life and with raising the kids. We can work together as partners which may be what we do for the next few years until the kids are older. We may very well split then.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I think he is not a very open person and forgets to tell me lots of things, even things i really need to know. I guess because of all the lies and hiding things in the past i guess I feel like by not knowing all these things about him or his day that we are going back into the same pattern as before. When something feels like it was deliberately kept from me, it puts me on high alert. I do understand that some of these issues are just my mind playing tricks on me and I do not bring or fight with him about them. I let them go. I guess lately I have been seeing a lot of changes in routine, attitude and just his plain demeanour. When I asked him if he was okay or wanted or needed to talk about anything he got instantly defensive and automatically assumed that I was accusing him for doing something. When he gives me this reaction he makes me feel like he is hiding something. There goes the circle we seem to be following. I wish he would be comfortable to tell me how he feels or how my words make him feel at that time but sadly he doesn’t and I’m afraid I really have no one to blame but myself for all the years of reacting badly to my husband. I do not know how to fix this so he feels comfortable with me to tell me anything.


So what are you afraid of, what do you think he could be hiding. It's a long leap from porn to cheating. I think at this point you need to start asking yourself, do I really need to ask about this. Is my concern reasonable or justified. Your husband is living with a boulder hanging over his head by a small string. Your assuming there is some kind of nefarious reason he doesn't tell you certain things when in reality most of it is probably not on his radar as something he should to tell you about. Honestly if I was your husband, I would probably just start telling you everything from every second, Hey hun I just pooped, Hey hun I just got a glass of water, Hey hun I just finished my water, hey hun I just checked the score of the game, Hey hun I just looked out the front window and saw the UPS truck go by, hey hun when I was at the grocery store I counted 74 customers and 18 employees, 6 of the employees were women one of the women bagged the groceries for me. I have a feeling this is what your husband feels like he would need to do to make you happy. 

You need to recognize you have issues that are causing problems, your husband needs to recognize he needs to work with you in a reasonable way and try not to let your issues annoy him while you work on them. It doesn't sound like you have done any real work to try and resolve your issues except trying to get past them by expecting your husband to tell you every detail of his day to day comings and goings. 

You guys need to have a good talk about a fresh start, tell your husband you want to get past this and you need his help. Maybe you can try not to question him every time you feel the urge to and in return he will be understanding and and not get upset. I really think IC and MC can help with this.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

x598 said:


> YOU NEED TO BE IN CONTROL?
> 
> did your husband sign a waiver agreeing for you to be the tyrant in your marriage the same way you got an agreement for no porn use?
> 
> wow.


I did need to be in control. I am trying to change that now and have made great progress in the last year. My husband is not completely blamelss. In our early marriage he never made any descison about anything. I had to decide everything, plan everything and when I would try it get his input and see what he wanted to do i always go the, whatever you want is fine with me. I didn’t start this marriage trying to control everything, my husband let me have all the control and forced it upon me in a lot of cases. 

I am not a tyrant. i don’t make him do what I want all the time and all the issues I mentioned above that bothered me were never mentioned to my husband or brought to him. He doesn’t know how I feel about any of it cause i chose to drop it as it wasn’t important to me.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> I did need to be in control. I am trying to change that now and have made great progress in the last year. My husband is not completely blamelss. In our early marriage he never made any descison about anything. I had to decide everything, plan everything and when I would try it get his input and see what he wanted to do i always go the, whatever you want is fine with me. I didn’t start this marriage trying to control everything, my husband let me have all the control and forced it upon me in a lot of cases.
> 
> I am not a tyrant. i don’t make him do what I want all the time and all the issues I mentioned above that bothered me were never mentioned to my husband or brought to him. He doesn’t know how I feel about any of it cause i chose to drop it as it wasn’t important to me.


sorry not buying the justification here. "my husband "forced it upon me"....oh come on......he probably got tired of debating anything and everything with you...and in reality....when it came to decide what restaurant to eat at....really didn't care and was fine letting you decide. rather then being happy that you could go anywhere you wished...you would feel slighted that he "didn't care".

im sure you don't see yourself as a tyrant but everything you wrote gives me that impression. Im not truing to be a jerk or attack you, rather I am giving you a free unsolicited opinion from on outside perspective hoping you might learn and profit from it. loved the part where you said "I don't make him do what I want ALL of the time" :surprise: and then go on to say how you aren't a tyrant. maybe that word is a bit harsh but you have to admit it seems fitting.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> It matter because I need to be in control. I had an uncontrollable childhood full of hurt and pain. Most of the problem in our marriage can be brought down to my control issues and my husband temper.
> 
> I am changing this now and letting go of the control. A lot of these issues i have with my husband I never bring them to him cause I know they are not important in the bigger picture. What it tripping me up now is when I do feel like something is a real issue to me I sit on it for a few day to see if it was just as important to me 3 days from now as it was then. If it is i try to bring to my husband in a non confortational way. As soon as i question him about anything, he gets defensive, angry and mean. I understand that my constant suspicion and lack of trust has made him react this way but in doing so we never resolve any of the problems we have. He needs to not assume i am being unreasonable and accusing him of doing Things behind my back just because i have a question, just as I don’t assume or accuse him of things just because he fails to mention picking up a coworker.
> 
> How do I get him to stop being defensive and assume the worst when all i want to do and just talk about a concern or issue in a mature contructive fashion. I feel I have beaten my husband into a defensive corner and I do not know how to help him out of it. Maybe I can’t.


So let me share something personal to me. I don't do it often here but maybe will help you understand a guys perspective. 

My lovely wife of 15 years is constantly insecure about me and asking if I'm cheating. Like every single day she cracks a 'joke' about it. It's never funny, it's in fact completely insulting and it comes up all the time. It even comes up when we're being intimate which I absolutely hate and has real impacts for both of us. She's just deeply insecure about me. This despite the fact that I've never given her even one ioata of a reason for it (will have to take my word for it). I don't flirt with other women, don't make off hand remarks, don't criticize her ever, don't get caught staring, nothing. I work from home mostly so wouldn't even have easy opportunities if I was a creep on the lookout. I am very successful in my career, and I do stay in great shape and I absolutely think i'm a catch. But I know her insecurity is really because her mother was emotionally and occasionally physically abusive to her (Asian tiger mom cliche) growing up. And she's just damaged that way. At 42 she has never been able to process it and move on. She's a stunning catch for me and a beautiful human being too but this is how it surfaces. And it's ugly.

So how do I react? i *KNOW* i'm a good guy and innocent. But when she starts up its hard not to be annoyed or get short. It's insulting to me. I've sacrificed so much for her and our family and provided so much. Why does she beat me up over this? I. AM. INNOCENT. And yes I walk just a bit on eggshells to avoid appearances of impropriety. And yes i'd withhold things that might arouse suspicion even if they were 1000% innocent.

So there...just wanted you to know how this impacts a man and how it feels. And honestly i'm getting a bit triggered here sharing but it's not 1/10th of what you are putting your husband through. I'm not criticizing you but unless he's given you ample reason to suspect him maybe realize that this is mainly on you? Again I just don't know you're full history so if he's a proven cheater then that's different. But if he's just a good guy like me do him a favor and seek help for yourself. Just learn to let go and enjoy what life brings.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> So what are you afraid of, what do you think he could be hiding. It's a long leap from porn to cheating. I think at this point you need to start asking yourself, do I really need to ask about this. Is my concern reasonable or justified. Your husband is living with a boulder hanging over his head by a small string. Your assuming there is some kind of nefarious reason he doesn't tell you certain things when in reality most of it is probably not on his radar as something he should to tell you about. Honestly if I was your husband, I would probably just start telling you everything from every second, Hey hun I just pooped, Hey hun I just got a glass of water, Hey hun I just finished my water, hey hun I just checked the score of the game, Hey hun I just looked out the front window and saw the UPS truck go by, hey hun when I was at the grocery store I counted 74 customers and 18 employees, 6 of the employees were women one of the women bagged the groceries for me. I have a feeling this is what your husband feels like he would need to do to make you happy.
> 
> You need to recognize you have issues that are causing problems, your husband needs to recognize he needs to work with you in a reasonable way and try not to let your issues annoy him while you work on them. It doesn't sound like you have done any real work to try and resolve your issues except trying to get past them by expecting your husband to tell you every detail of his day to day comings and goings.
> 
> You guys need to have a good talk about a fresh start, tell your husband you want to get past this and you need his help. Maybe you can try not to question him every time you feel the urge to and in return he will be understanding and and not get upset. I really think IC and MC can help with this.


This is the problem. I have not brought any issues to him in over 6 month. I am not letting myself bring my worries or feeling to him when i know there is no reason to feel that way and that he has not done anything wrong. He has been off the last little while, really not himself so I became concerned and ask him what was wrong and did he need to talk or tell me something. I truly felt like something was bothering him. He instantly gets defensive, which in turn set me off on high alert, which he notices and then come his angry. How is he suppose to expect me to forget about the porn/lying issues when anytime I have a problems or issue he thinks it’s because i am accusing him of lying or looking at porn. He believes I am thinking the worst before I even have a chance to tell him what is really the problem. We are caught in this cycle and can’t seem to break free. I feel that as long as i don’t bring any concerns or issues to him life will be fine, but that is not realistic. Problems happen. I want to be able to talk about them with out dragging up the past. 

We need MC but He is reluctant to go probably because he is a private person.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Daisy12 said:


> We make a great team in day to day life and with raising the kids. We can work together as partners which may be what we do for the next few years until the kids are older. We may very well split then.


Let me ask you a question.....ok, two questions....

How would you feel if he used porn again ?

And, what about his porn involvement hurts you ?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

x598 said:


> sorry not buying the justification here. "my husband "forced it upon me"....oh come on......he probably got tired of debating anything and everything with you...and in reality....when it came to decide what restaurant to eat at....really didn't care and was fine letting you decide. rather then being happy that you could go anywhere you wished...you would feel slighted that he "didn't care".
> 
> im sure you don't see yourself as a tyrant but everything you wrote gives me that impression. Im not truing to be a jerk or attack you, rather I am giving you a free unsolicited opinion from on outside perspective hoping you might learn and profit from it. loved the part where you said "I don't make him do what I want ALL of the time" :surprise: and then go on to say how you aren't a tyrant. maybe that word is a bit harsh but you have to admit it seems fitting.


I am not denying my control issues or my part in why we are here today. I made mistakes just like he has, and just like him, I am changing my ways. I can’t change the past, nor can he. No one has ever forced him to stay with me but as he told me he would change and I believed him and I told him I would change and I have given a lot of the power to back to him, which he has taken but the majority of it still get passed back to me. He doesn’t want to make descions on what we do, where we go, how to raise the kids planning event..etc I can’t force him to make decisions because I don’t want to be controlling anymore. Trust me I would love to not have to decide everything all the time but if i don’t things don’t get done. My husband is very passive in this area of our home life as his work takes a lot out of him mentally he doesn’t want to think about the day to day running of our family.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

TJW said:


> Let me ask you a question.....ok, two questions....
> 
> How would you feel if he used porn again ?
> 
> And, what about his porn involvement hurts you ?



Honestly if he started using porn again i think I would be hurt. I would be angry if he started lying about it again. If he came to me today and said porn was something he needed I honestly don’t think I would destroy my family over it, but knowing he was watching would put a wedge between our emotional connections and I would probably drift apart from him and we would end up being partners in life and family instead of a couple.

His involvement in porn hurt me the most because he was using porn as a way to not deal with any of the issues in our marriage. He chose to watch porn instead of taking the time and effort to have an emotional/intimate relationship with me. It allowed him to lie to me about his feeling and deny me a chance to have a healthy normal relationship with my husband.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It sounds as though either this is just the way he is or your history together has influenced him so that he can't handle you bringing anything up. Only he knows why he reacts with anger. Maybe he can't or won't ever change. In any event, you can only fix you and then it's up to him what he does to improve your marriage. If he doesn't change then you'll have a decision to make.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

You are extremely controlling. Time to look in the mirror for the problems in your marriage.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> I ask myself that question as well but i do see that some of this damage was done by me as well. I want to fix and change it but it seems like our routine is set in stone. We also have kids so walking away is not as easy.
> 
> I feel a lot of angry from my husband over our past issues and i know some of that angry is at himself as well. I just want to try to heal him and myself. Maybe i am living in a fairy tale world but until my kids are older leaving for me is not the way i want to go. We make a great team in day to day life and with raising the kids. We can work together as partners which may be what we do for the next few years until the kids are older. We may very well split then.


You can only heal yourself, you can't fix (heal) him. Your anger only hurts you, although it contributes tension in your day-to-day home life. Sounds like you are afraid of losing him. Yet, by your very actions, you are making his life sorta miserable? 

IMO:there is a difference in being controlling and being responsible for making marital decisions.

Your unhappiness will eventually affect you physically, mentally emotionally. Often when we let go of something we have been tenaciously holding on to, it comes right back to us. In other words, you can control yourself, reap the rewards, and likely gain the intimacy that has been slipping away.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

I going to play the "s'lived" advocate here.

2 years and 4 months. Look at that statement. What does that tell you? (It could speak volumes if thought about.)
As another has pointed out, you stated, "you don't always have to have your way." Says much as well.

Get some self help books, and work on yourself. 

Wanting a strong man is fine, but no man wants a constant power struggle like I had for 15 or 18 years. It taxes all the reserves one has. If no matter how tried to talk it winds up into a fight.

Also: At least 90% percent of people I know have lied to others in their life for years just as bad or worse, and never gave it a second thought....Would you judge yourself as harshly?

On a side note: From reading it seems your thoughts have become an obsession. Meditation can work wonders if done correctly.
Uncontrolled fear sabotages one to bring the fear into existence.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Thank you everyone for responding. I know I contribute a lot to this problem. I know my faults and am trying to fix myself, but I find it hard to do with our history. I am finding it hard to just forget and not expect him to fall back into old patterns and when he lies to me or withhold information I feel like he is falling back into his old patterns. I know this says more about my problems than his and until i fix myself this marriage will never work. I just don’t think I can be healthy with him. I think I need to take the time to work on myself and forget about trying to fix my marriage. It just breaks my heart because everything else in our life is going well, we have great jobs, a nice house. Very bright and high achieving happy kids. 

I have a hard choice to make, it’s just really hard to make when it’s not just my life that I am dealing with. My kids will have to live with and suffer the consequences of the choice I make.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

red oak said:


> I going to play the "s'lived" advocate here.
> 
> 2 years and 4 months. Look at that statement. What does that tell you? (It could speak volumes if thought about.).


16 years of lies, hiding things and avoiding the problems in our marriage. What does that tell you? Do you know how much it hurts to have to remember all the time you looked your spouse in the eyes and they lied to your face, not once or twice but a million times.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> IF he had of been honest with me when we first dated that if sex was not frequent enough he would use porn, at least then I could have made a choice about whether to proceed with the relationship. We have 4 kids and a life together now, not really easy to just walk away.


 So unrealistic.

I would tend to think most men (not all) likely use porn occasionally when they're looking to masturbate. Big whoop. But since women make such a damned stink about it due to their *own *insecurities, men are often forced to *lie* about it - which is the position you put your husband in. You even say "he chose ME over porn" as though it had to be a choice in the first place. It was only a choice because you MADE it a choice. And what man is going to 'choose' divorce his wife and leave his children JUST for the 'privilege' of being able to occasionally view porn when he masturbates? Of course his 'choice' will be his wife.

How utterly unnecessary and over the top to put a man in that position.

There's something really creepy about women who NEED to control a man's every thought, every move, everything he thinks or feels, everything he fantasizes about, and everything he looks at. And I have to be honest - you ask why he seems to be hesitant to tell you things like he walked with a female coworker during lunch or that he talked to a female coworker at the hairdresser's, and from reading just this one thread* alone*, I can tell you _exactly_ why. Because the man is on trial 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Not because he deserves it, not because he committed some egregious sin and needs to be policed on a continual basis, but because you have insecurity issues and continually choose to visit them on HIM rather than working on yourself. And it sucks for him. Big time.

My now husband did the same damned thing to ME when we started dating. He was insecure because he felt I was 'out of his league' and I constantly had to answer for every damned thing I *did* and it's tiresome as HELL. Luckily for him, after a year or two he finally got his **** together and smartened up because it gets so incredibly old after awhile, constantly walking on eggshells. Ask your husband. He knows exactly what I mean - except he's been doing it a lot longer.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

[I think he is frustrated that I was taking so long and felt like this was going to a life sentence for him.]


This.....Speaks volumes. You basically gave him a hand grenade, with the pin out of it. He is probably feeling a little depressed and having some serious regret. Into staying with you. What State are you residing in? Divorce laws amicable for men in general? I bet he is looking at the big picture and that is in turn building resentment. He is seeing his "value" as a husband and a provider. But the romance and love is probably washing away....Sorry, but I wouldn't do it. I'd bail. Kids live in split homes all the time. It isnt worth the feeling of dread for the next 30 years......


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Because the man is on trial 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Not because he deserves it, not because he committed some egregious sin and needs to be policed on a continual basis, but because you have insecurity issues and continually choose to visit them on HIM rather than working on yourself. And it sucks for him. Big time.
> .


You are right. I know it all starts with me and it’s going to end with me. I need to get help and work on my problems. I don’t think I can do that with my husband. This breaks my heart to even type it but I need to leave this marriage and work on me. I’m going to have to sit my husband down and tell him that my behavior is not fair to him or our children and until i can get me under control there can be no us. It’s not going to be an easy conversation cause he’s not going to take it well. But then again maybe he just waiting for me to make the first move, he can be very passive.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> 16 years of lies, hiding things and avoiding the problems in our marriage. What does that tell you? Do you know how much it hurts to have to remember all the time you looked your spouse in the eyes and they lied to your face, not once or twice but a million times.


You're not seeing the forest for the trees you have planted to take over..


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## Couple111 (Nov 2, 2018)

Hinestly I really do not get these women that come on here lising their minds over their husband watches ng pirn. Its not a big deal. Not lije he is out there sleeping with someone. Its on tv relax. Ever thibk he is watching it to get ideas on how to spice up your sex life. Maybe think he is trying to do something to make things more fun fir u in the bedroom. Porn is not as big of a deal as some women make it sound.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> I have often wondered and felt like he resents me for having control over whether or not he watches porn or even the fact that he has to be an open book. I don’t know if he views this as controlling him, and maybe I am? He made a choice to choose me over porn so I feel it is unfair to punish me for the choices he made. I know it was an impossible decision for him and it did put his back against the wall but It is a no go issue for me, especially the lying that came with it. IF he had of been honest with me when we first dated that if sex was not frequent enough he would use porn, at least then I could have made a choice about whether to proceed with the relationship. We have 4 kids and a life together now, not really easy to just walk away.


And there its is.....

Rearing its overly proud head.

It is my way or the driveway, heading away.

It seems that compromise is rarely thought of as an option.

We are all supposed to 'be' the other person, not be ourselves.

I am stiff backed, I cannot bend myself very far.
I can let others be themselves.

Why?

They are not me, they are apart from me.
Yes, some parts are like me.

But, not all parts.
I accept that.

So many others cannot.
It is their right to be 'this' way.

It is also of their own volition that they are miserable.

Live and let live....
Within reason, not necessarily within and subject to some unreasonable emotional straitjacket.

Sigh..



[THRD]


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So unrealistic.
> 
> I would tend to think most men (not all) likely use porn occasionally when they're looking to masturbate. Big whoop. But since women make such a damned stink about it due to their *own *insecurities, men are often forced to *lie* about it - which is the position you put your husband in. You even say "he chose ME over porn" as though it had to be a choice in the first place. It was only a choice because you MADE it a choice. And what man is going to 'choose' divorce his wife and leave his children JUST for the 'privilege' of being able to occasionally view porn when he masturbates? Of course his 'choice' will be his wife.
> 
> ...


Mic dropped...walking away.

So much this. Perfectly stated.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"Lol. Its funny how some go right to the porn. As I mentioned numerous times I am more concerned he lied to me for so many years."

Changed a few words in the above quote...


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> You are right. I know it all starts with me and it’s going to end with me. I need to get help and work on my problems. I don’t think I can do that with my husband. This breaks my heart to even type it but I need to leave this marriage and work on me. I’m going to have to sit my husband down and tell him that my behavior is not fair to him or our children and until i can get me under control there can be no us. It’s not going to be an easy conversation cause he’s not going to take it well. But then again maybe he just waiting for me to make the first move, he can be very passive.


I think you are being very hard on yourself and on your marriage. Nobody here is perfect and I think you have enough retrospect to be able to make things work. You need to cut him some slack and give yourself a break whilst you are at it. I think having some fun may be the best way for you to get over this hurdle and focus on the good times. There must be something that you love very deeply about him, start with that and slowly build on it. 

Do you have very high standards generally speaking?


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Seriously, you do need an outside source to mediate and direct discussions in your relationship. But he knows he will be cowed and badgered until he acquiesced to your never ending demands. He knows he wont get a fair shake....Maybe he can do some individual couselling and you can do yours?


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> I think you are being very hard on yourself and on your marriage. Nobody here is perfect and I think you have enough retrospect to be able to make things work. You need to cut him some slack and give yourself a break whilst you are at it. I think having some fun may be the best way for you to get over this hurdle and focus on the good times. There must be something that you love very deeply about him, start with that and slowly build on it.
> 
> Do you have very high standards generally speaking?



I don’t think I have high standards so to speak, but I am controlling, I know that about myself. I grew up in a abusive household and my childhood was very much out of control, so as an adult I know I crave the control so I don’t feel vulnerable and helpless like i did as a child. 

I have done a lot of work on these issues and i know I have made improvements. I really feel like my reaction to my husband is not because I’m trying to control him, but because i’m afraid I am going to lose him. I’m scared of losing my family. Makes me sound pathetic I know, but I truly love my husband and kids and we have worked so hard and come so far to build such a wonderful life. I just wish I could let go of all the doubt before i end up ruining everything.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> His involvement in porn hurt me the most because he was using porn as a way to not deal with any of the issues in our marriage. He chose to watch porn instead of taking the time and effort to have an emotional/intimate relationship with me. It allowed him to lie to me about his feeling and deny me a chance to have a healthy normal relationship with my husband.


Honest question for you - are you completely certain it was porn that had anything to do with your marriage issues? If so why? Or could it be that you've created a paranoid degrading toxic environment and it's that (not the porn) that caused that relationship distance and lack of communication. Is porn the cause or the symptom or even completely unrelated (as is for most men that use it)?

I'm not judging you one bit on your stance on porn (not going there). But perhaps have the courage to look really deeply and challenge yourself here. Be willing to be really introspective. This whole thread you've been open and admitted that you caused many of these problems but then quickly add and shift blame on your husband. If your behavior is the ultimate root cause and his response a reasonable reaction then the 'fix' so it is belongs within you. Do you have what it takes to be accountable for this?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> I don’t think I have high standards so to speak, but I am controlling, I know that about myself. I grew up in a abusive household and my childhood was very much out of control, so as an adult I know I crave the control so I don’t feel vulnerable and helpless like i did as a child.
> 
> I have done a lot of work on these issues and i know I have made improvements. I really feel like my reaction to my husband is not because I’m trying to control him, but because i’m afraid I am going to lose him. I’m scared of losing my family. Makes me sound pathetic I know, but I truly love my husband and kids and we have worked so hard and come so far to build such a wonderful life. I just wish I could let go of all the doubt before i end up ruining everything.


Not pathetic at all. Control is always about fear. Often vulnerability is a great start for positive communication (note vulnerability not neediness).

The reason I mentioned a 'high standard' is because I have observed a lot of that in my own marriage and in fact many of the stories we read about here on TAM. Having a high standard in terms of marriage is fairly crushing when we slowly work out that our knight in shining armour is just a fallible human being after all. Learning that marriage can be messy, complicated and sometimes hurtful is a difficult lesson, but it should get easier as we overcome each challenge. If there is real love, then *good enough* can carry us to the next phase in life.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

BigDigg said:


> Honest question for you - are you completely certain it was porn that had anything to do with your marriage issues? If so why? Or could it be that you've created a paranoid degrading toxic environment and it's that (not the porn) that caused that relationship distance and lack of communication. Is porn the cause or the symptom or even completely unrelated (as is for most men that use it)?
> 
> I'm not judging you one bit on your stance on porn (not going there). But perhaps have the courage to look really deeply and challenge yourself here. Be willing to be really introspective. This whole thread you've been open and admitted that you caused many of these problems but then quickly add and shift blame on your husband. If your behavior is the ultimate root cause and his response a reasonable reaction then the 'fix' so it is belongs within you. Do you have what it takes to be accountable for this?


The porn was a symptom of a bigger issue that was going on in our marriage, lack of communication and intimacy. We lacked honesty and tended to not share our true feelings. I don’t think my husband used porn cause he didn’t want to have sex with me, he used porn cause he didn’t want to or didn’t know what to do to have a intimate fulfilling relationship with me so I would want to have sex with him. I am not totally to blame either as I knew to some extend my husband wasn’t overly happy with our sex life,but with 4 small children, working 2 jobs and battling depression i really didn’t have the time or energy to worry about it. I was barely staying above water as it was. 

I not trying to completly trying to blame my husband nor do I feel I am all to blame. I think we are 50-50 to blame for how our relationship got to this point. My husband has made changes to show me he is done with porn and want a healthy relationship with me. I will admit that right now I am 100% to blame as to why we can’t get over this. I need let go of trying to control what he is going to do and trust that he is doing what is best for our relationship and our family.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

peacem said:


> Not pathetic at all. Control is always about fear. Often vulnerability is a great start for positive communication (note vulnerability not neediness).
> 
> The reason I mentioned a 'high standard' is because I have observed a lot of that in my own marriage and in fact many of the stories we read about here on TAM. Having a high standard in terms of marriage is fairly crushing when we slowly work out that our knight in shining armour is just a fallible human being after all. Learning that marriage can be messy, complicated and sometimes hurtful is a difficult lesson, but it should get easier as we overcome each challenge. If there is real love, then *good enough* can carry us to the next phase in life.



I have always thought of him as my knight in shining armour. He was the one person in the world I thought would never hurt me and when it happened, I was crushed. It changed the way i looked at him and that scared me cause i thought I really knew him. I understand now that he is still the same person as before, he just made a mistake.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So unrealistic.
> 
> I would tend to think most men (not all) likely use porn occasionally when they're looking to masturbate. Big whoop.


Yes, she is overly controlling.

You finally made a breakthrough...

With many men, some women.

Uh, those not on your 'team' before.

You made a breakthrough with us.

You came around to the other half, recognized us........as men.

You get a Kudos from The HeadMates, mark it on your calendar, Dear.



[THRD]


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> "Lol. Its funny how some go right to the porn. As I mentioned numerous times I am more concerned he lied to me for so many years."
> 
> Changed a few words in the above quote...


Porn is a symptom, can be a habit.

Lying is a defensive action, it too can be habitual.

If one is stabbed every time one tells the truth, one lies.

Lying is easier than facing the truth.

What is the Truth?

The truth soon becomes "something is wrong with you, you need help".

Uh, OK....

I am from the Government, I am here to help comes to mind.

To mind your life, down to the last brass tacks.

To control you, utterly.

The tacks become trickier, become corroded from hiding in dark damp places.

Same as the lies to avoid the sharp, pointed brass tacks.

Yep.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How long? A week, a month, a year. Sometimes never.

If you have been cheated on it changes how you look at things.

Normal person who has a late spouse: "Oh, I hope nothing has happened to them."
Cheated upon person who has a late spouse: "Oh, I hope nothing has happened to them/I hope they're not cheating on me, again."


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> I really feel like my reaction to my husband is not because I’m trying to control him, but because i’m afraid *I am going to lose him.* I’m scared of losing my family.


 This will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if you keep being controlling.


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