# Husband secretly taped us having sex



## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

We've been married for 25 years and have 4 children. Our marriage has been good for the most part. We've had our ups and downs, but nothing serious. My husband's sex drive has always been very high and mine, average. Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most. But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week. He seemed more interested in quantity over quality. He would also make jabs at me, like after we'd make love, he'd say 'yeah, well when's the last time we did it' or 'you could have at least given me oral'. So that lead to a lot of resentment on both sides. I told him I can't live like this, feeling like no matter what I do, or how often, it's not enough. I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me. But he wanted to stay.

Fast forward a few years & kids later, things seemed better. He seemed satisfied with once a week, sometimes twice if the stars aligned 😉 we didn't bicker at all about it. Long story short (that I'll spare you) I discovered thousands of deleted pornography pictures and hundreds of videos. I really didn't care, I don't find anything wrong with porn. Maybe the sheer about bothered me a bit.

But mixed up in his porn stash, I found several videos of hidden camera footage of us having sex, from different times & angles. I also found several videos of just me getting dressed after a shower. I'm beyond sick about it. I never even knew he had a nanny camera. I never agreed to it. He said he didn't ask me because he knew I'd say no. I'm very modest and not very happy with my body (and he knows this). I can't stop thinking about it. I'm obessed. He swears he did it just for his enjoyment and did not post it online or show anyone. He said regular porn was boring so he wanted to see us. He swears he's sorry and this is the only bad thing he's done in our 30 years of being together. He's willing to go to therapy and said will do whatever it takes to make it up to me and earn my trust back. But I can't even look at him. He was my best friend and was supposed to honor me and keep me safe. I can't sleep in our room or even get dressed in there. I feel so betrayed and violated. I'm afraid beyond repair.

I need advice. I'm a homemaker, we have 4 kids, one with special needs. So leaving isn't an easy decision. I need guidance and help.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

You are handling this the right way and your feelings are completely understandable and reasonable.

Bad things - I'm sure there's more but maybe not, his unhappiness with sex life, etc;

Good things - seems like you have a fairly normal married life aside from this and if he is willing to put in the time, he can redeem himself for the crime;

I think it would be kind of cool to record each other, something to spice things up, I'm a long ways from that now with my cheating STBXW soon to be gone and divorced but I had thought about things like this before but we never explored it because frankly, it was like pulling teeth for me to get sex even once every few months.

The reason I bring this up is because I think the act of what he did is ok but doing it without your permission in secret, without talking to you is heinous, freakin disgusting. 

I am of the belief this can be saved but only if he puts in the work and over a long period of time. It's going to be a long time til you can see him like you used to. Don't let him come up with excuses. And because of how they are related, he needs to get help for his porn addiction, that may be at the root of all of this. Porn can be fine for healthy minded people that don't depend on it or can leave it be under their own control, in these situations, the man needs to give it up. 

Please keep posting questions as you have them and as this process unfolds. I'm hoping for a recovery here and I think it's possible, with your forgiveness but more importantly with his time put in.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

There is no question that him filming it without your knowledge IS some type of violation. Are these just videotapes or files on your home computer? Has he posted them somewhere or are they in the cloud?

If they are NOT somewhere on the web, then it wouldn't bother me as much. On the web - I'd be FURIOUS.

You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

I agree....

You have a poor body image of yourself. He obviously loves you. He has a high sex drive and he is using inappropriate avenues for release. Your drive is probably low to non-existent if your truthful... Therapy probably can work there. Do you find your husband attractive and sexy? What does he think that you view him as such....

But the hidden aspect can be a two edged knife. It is wrong and hurtful to be deceived. But It is also enlightening about himself that views YOU as his object of desire . (Hopefully non others....) As well as his addiction to pornography and out of the norm sexual release. He needs to feel safe if you want him to open up to you about his desires and thinking in general. I can bet a dollar that your communication is very one-sided at best. If he truly feels like he is not safe to let you know about his sexual desires, what else could he be feeling about in your relationship that he has not shared with you.

And as well, does he not understand your limitations and feelings of betrayal? Does he have remorse on upsetting you and jeopardizing what is supposed to be a good and healthy aspect to marriage? Hopefully IC and couple counselling will address these issues...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> We've been married for 25 years and have 4 children. Our marriage has been good for the most part. We've had our ups and downs, but nothing serious. My husband's sex drive has always been very high and mine, average. Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most. But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week. He seemed more interested in quantity over quality. He would also make jabs at me, like after we'd make love, he'd say 'yeah, well when's the last time we did it' or 'you could have at least given me oral'. So that lead to a lot of resentment on both sides. I told him I can't live like this, feeling like no matter what I do, or how often, it's not enough. I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me. But he wanted to stay.
> Fast forward a few years & kids later, things seemed better. He seemed satisfied with once a week, sometimes twice if the stars aligned 😉 we didn't bicker at all about it. Long story short (that I'll spare you) I discovered thousands of deleted pornography pictures and hundreds of videos. I really didn't care, I don't find anything wrong with porn. Maybe the sheer about bothered me a bit.
> But mixed up in his porn stash, I found several videos of hidden camera footage of us having sex, from different times & angles. I also found several videos of just me getting dressed after a shower. I'm beyond sick about it. I never even knew he had a nanny camera. I never agreed to it. He said he didn't ask me because he knew I'd say no. I'm very modest and not very happy with my body (and he knows this). I can't stop thinking about it. I'm obessed. He swears he did it just for his enjoyment and did not post it online or show anyone. He said regular porn was boring so he wanted to see us. He swears he's sorry and this is the only bad thing he's done in our 30 years of being together. He's willing to go to therapy and said will do whatever it takes to make it up to me and earn my trust back. But I can't even look at him. He was my best friend and was supposed to honor me and keep me safe. I can't sleep in our room or even get dressed in there. I feel so betrayed and violated. I'm afraid beyond repair.
> I need advice. I'm a homemaker, we have 4 kids, one with special needs. So leaving isn't an easy decision. I need guidance and help.



The trouble in providing guidance is that you don’t state what it is you ultimately want.

You, of course, are right to feel utterly betrayed, hurt, mistrustful, disgusted, enraged, humiliated, embarrassed, violated... You are right, of course, to want to protect yourself financially, and to be concerned about loss of physical support in coping with your special needs child. You are stuck in a position in which any consequences he deserves to suffer, and boy does he, would also impact you nearly as much as him. 

And this is the disgracefully inequitable position that married parents face. Cutting off your support, cutting away financial support would be painful to you and the kids.

So taking the level of disruption you would face, which is more personally valuable?
1. Keeping financial and physical support unaffected.
2. Protecting yourself from further harm by being stuck with a man who is despicably self-centered and appears to have rationalized what is universally illegal invasion of privacy. Yes, he could go to jail for invading your privacy by secretly recording images of you, whether or not he distributed them.

Were I in your shoes I would:

1. Move his stuff to the basement which would be his new bedroom. No reason why you should move. 
2. I would hire some tech geek to come sweep the home to ascertain if all re riding devices are removed. 
3. Then I would put a key lock on my bedroom door so that he would never have access to my personal space without me being present.

As far as therapy goes, it’s not going to cure him. Let him explain to you why he thinks therapy might help him, what he hopes to gain from therapy, how he expects therapy to affect your relationship.


*if you found these images on his computer, or his phone, I urge you take confiscated the device and keep it safely locked away and turned off. Eventually, you may need these images for divorce or prosecution. Not that you would have to turn them over to authorities because that would further violate you. But you have the evidence of his deceit, willful violation of the mother of his freakin children for gods sakes, and betrayal of trust. If at some point you want to ensure those images have stayed in house, and I suspect they probably have but I would want this verified, you can get help in searching for those images on line.


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## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

I think there will generally be differing opinions based on the gender of the respondent and/or their personal situation (libido disparity, etc.). IMO there are two factors at play here.

1. He violated your privacy, and for that, he will have to endure whatever consequences come. As to what they should be, I can't say. That's up to you to decide.

2. He wants sex, and he wants it with his wife. The silver lining here is the fact that he chose images of *you* to help him remain satisfied. This is a pretty strong indicator that he finds you attractive (despite your own displeasure with your body) and to cope with your lack of desire, he does the next best thing.

It is factor number 2 that makes me think he won't ever really feel the same way that you do about it, but it seems that he doesn't want to lose you and as such is willing to accept your feelings at face value as well as show remorse. It will be nigh impossible for him to put himself in your shoes and feel the same way. I'm the higher drive person, and if I found that my wife was secretly taking video of me and using it to pleasure herself, I'd be over the moon. I suspect he would too, and wouldn't even consider the privacy issue.

Some questions:

Why are you afraid?
If he had earnestly asked for these videos as a compromise (instead of finding someone else, as you suggested), what would you have said?
If you said no, would you approve of him having a sexual relationship with someone outside of the home?
Is there any path that leads to him earning back your trust? Because if not, it's better not to lead him on.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

He violated your privacy, plain and simple. Someone who would do something that sneaky can not be trusted. He had all kinds of porn on his computer. I don't think it is a leap to wonder if he uploaded to an amateur site for a thrill. Grim thought.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

I see the old double standard rearing it's ugly head.

I mean it's perfectly fine for the sahw to be totally terrified at the prospect of losing her money train, but it's not OK for a man to be concerned about getting ass raped for the family divorce complex.

On what ****ing planet does that make sense?

His violation of her privacy crossed the line without a doubt. I do wish it was him posting, because he would get told to completely and totally destroy everything with a scrubbing application and that he needed to get his own device that was his and solely his.

Spouses should get the right of first refusal, then they don't get to say jack **** past that. Period! 

The most important thing would be that she needs to get a job. Like last week, and the week before that! Every single person needs to have a job and contribute to their own financial well being.

So much for inequitable positions then, huh?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> I see the old double standard rearing it's ugly head.
> 
> I mean it's perfectly fine for the sahw to be totally terrified at the prospect of losing her money train, but it's not OK for a man to be concerned about getting ass raped for the family divorce complex.
> 
> ...


You mad, bro?

But seriously, I think part of what makes this more complicated is the sex issue. Yes, violation of trust and privacy is an issue, but so is the apparent zero compromise on the sex issue here.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

The OP has no problem with her H having sex with someone else, but has a problem with her H filming her instead. This is an odd one.

FTR: Her H filming her without her knowledge was definitely a bad thing to do. I will not dispute that. I do think it's telling that he chose to get whatever intimacy with his wife via the filming that he could instead of seeking relief in the arms of another woman. That tells me that what he's seeking is intimacy with HER, and that's what he truly desires. Because of that, I can't find it within myself to completely excoriate the man in spite of what was obviously a poor decision.

I think there are many facets of this situation that each deserve examination.



> He seemed more interested in quantity over quality.


Can you expand on this? What gives you this impression? You don't mention how the sex is for you, or whether or not you find it satisfying. My impression is that you're only saying this because your H wants it more than you do. That doesn't necessarily mean that he wants crappy sex more often. It could mean that he wants satisfying sex more often. I'm hoping you can shed some light on this.



> I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me.


This really needs to be unpackaged and scrutinized in detail.

1) Really think about your H getting his rocks off somewhere else. I mean, REALLY think about it. Imagine him having mind-blowing sex with another woman, and telling her "You are so much better than my wife!" And believing it. Feeling it. Craving that sexual release with her instead of you. Bonding with her through physical intimacy instead of you.

Most people who say that don't really think through the consequences.

2) The mere fact you said it indicates you are no longer connected to your H. As long as he stifles his sex drive to suit your sensibilities, you're happy. He found an outlet and you didn't really care until it involved you. If you dig deep about #1 above and decide that you simply wouldn't care if another woman rocked his world and he started caring more about her than you, then I have to ask, why are you still in this marriage?



> You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.


This is quite true, and bears repeating. You didn't have any intention of compromising with your H, you pulled out the one argument that you knew would shut him down. Which also indicates that you really don't care much about him or his needs.



> I'm a homemaker, we have 4 kids, one with special needs.


Aaaaand that's why you're still in this marriage. 

I bring all of this up because let's say in the event that your H completely deletes everything (as he damn well should) and apologize profusely (as he damn well should) and never do this again (as he damn well shouldn't), the *underlying issue* still remains. Your husband doesn't feel comfortable coming to you with his sexual needs, and feels that he can't come to with his sexual needs. He's searching for band-aids, and unfortunately they're only temporary and can't heal wounds this deep. He hasn't communicated effectively about this issue in the past, and you've been content to rugsweep it as long as it doesn't personally affect you.

You both have issues and have both made mistakes that have had detrimental impacts on your marriage. 

What is your end goal?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> There is no question that him filming it without your knowledge IS some type of violation. *Are these just videotapes or files on your home computer?* Has he posted them somewhere or are they in the cloud?


Files on a computer that are videos are the new form of "videotapes". She said that he used a nanny cam. Any modern nanny cam will record to a file. The file can be downloaded to computers, other cams, to cell phones, to the internet. There is no distinction.



personofinterest said:


> If they are NOT somewhere on the web, then it wouldn't bother me as much. On the web - I'd be FURIOUS.
> 
> You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Let's start with the bottom line here. You have a absolute legal right to privacy in your own home, especially your bedroom and bathroom. What your husband did is a crime. If you wanted to, you could have him prosecuted and he could be sentenced to jail time for this.

He needs to realize the magnitude of what he has done. 

Unfortunately, as someone else stated, having him prosecuted and sent to jail will hurt you and the children quite a bit.

I would not believe him for a minute when he says that he videod you because he wants you and does not find porn stimulating, or whatever he said. Nonsense. If he has a huge amount of downloaded porn, he was most likley trading his porn to get more porn.

I wonder if you could hire someone to search the internet for videos of you on porn trading sites. I might be hard to find since the internet is just a huge virtual space.

I think you need to go to couseling, you alone, to figure out your path forward here. 

You can try some couples counseling as well, but I don't know how much it will help. He probably is mostly upset that he was found out.

If i were you I would distory all images on his computer. I would have it professionally wiped clean so that he cannot bebuild files.. yes you can delete files and someone who knows how to do it can rebuild the files from the harddrive. I know because I've done this many times before. If he/you can afford a new computer, just take this one apart and take a hammer to all the boards and components in it. Take out the CD drive and beat the crap out of that too.

I feel badly for you because you are in a no-win situation. If you stay in this marriage, you are married to a man who you cannot trust... and never will be able to trust again. If you leave, it's a huge hardship for you and the children since you have no career to earn an income to support yourself.

Maybe you could stay for now and start working on a education and/or job training so that you have options in the future.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I read the having sex with another person as meaning 'get a new wife'. 

Any woman who has 4 children with one of them being special needs isn't going to have the energy to keep up with a high-drive husband.

Sure, she can get a job just as soon as someone volunteers to take care of her special needs child and the other three to boot.

OP, when did you make this discovery? How old are your children?


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I read the having sex with another person as meaning 'get a new wife'.


Oh I see. I read it as "Find someone else to have sex with."

If it were meant as "get a new wife" and not "have sex with someone else", that still indicates a lack of any type of compromise.



> Any woman who has 4 children with one of them being special needs isn't going to have the energy to keep up with a high-drive husband.


They were mismatched prior to having kids.



> Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most.


It just got even worse after kids.



> But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that there are two different issues here. 1) mismatched sex drives 2) him secretly filming her. #1 is not an excuse for #2


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Beyond Betrayed

You say that your sex drive declined after you had children, had to care for a special needs child, etc. You also attribute a lot of your loss of lebido this to two things 1) your husband not being "making love" but instead just getting off sexually for himself and 2) him making snide remarks to you about sex.

About how many hours a day do you put into taking care of your children, your home, etc?

About how much down time do you get for yourself to decompress, etc.

About how many hours a week does your husband work at his job?
About how many horus a week does he spend taking care of the children and doing things around the house, yard, etc?

About how many hours a week do you and he spend together, just the two of you doing things together that you both enjoy?

And lastly, when you do have sex with your husband, does he spend the time to make sure that you have an orgasm and that you really get somethign out of it? Or is the sex really just him getting off?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

My 2 cents:

Dear OP, Your husband did a very bad and stupid thing. His inappropriate behavior possibly destroyed his marriage as much and for similar reasons to having an affair....he violated your trust. You have ever right to be horrified at his betrayal. 

You need to figure out if you can forgive him or not. Then you need to figure out if he is so remorseful to do just about anything to rebuild your trust in him and if he understand the magnitude of his betrayal.

Unless the two of you have great communication skills, it will likely take professional marriage counseling to help you sort this out.

If at any point you conclude that you can never forgive him or never trust him in the future, then your best course of action is to talk to a good divorce attorney.

Also if you do counseling, make sure you discuss boundaries within your marriage. If you decide to leave him, then suggest he get some counseling, as there should be no reason on earth for what he did and to think what he did was OK, if beyond belief.

Good luck


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I think that there are two different issues here. 1) mismatched sex drives 2) him secretly filming her. #1 is not an excuse for #2


I completely agree, and in no way am I trying to say that her H was right in what he did. He was wrong, no doubt about it. She would have every right to divorce him over it, if she so chooses.

I just don't see this as a "W good, H bad" situation. It's not that cut and dry. If she plans on divorcing him over it, then it's moot in the end. 

But if she doesn't, then she will need to unpack and examine the issues that she has brought into the marriage, just as much as her H does.

(As a brief aside, we don't normally advocate for throwing cheaters in jail. What her H did was wrong, but I don't think it was as bad as infidelity. In terms of scale, I think advocating for putting him in jail is a bit over the top. Is it divorce-worthy? Absolutely. Is it worth jail time? I don't think so. I'd rather have murderers and burglars behind bars than a guy who most likely just wants to have sex with his wife who made a really stupid decision.)


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> @Beyond Betrayed
> 
> You say that your sex drive declined after you had children, had to care for a special needs child, etc. You also attribute a lot of your loss of lebido this to two things 1) your husband not being "making love" but instead just getting off sexually for himself and 2) him making snide remarks to you about sex.
> 
> ...


Great questions, Ele. 🙂


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I think that there are two different issues here. 1) mismatched sex drives 2) him secretly filming her. #1 is not an excuse for #2


No. No excuses.

They both need to be addressed however.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> You mad, bro?
> 
> But seriously, I think part of what makes this more complicated is the sex issue. Yes, violation of trust and privacy is an issue, but so is the apparent zero compromise on the sex issue here.


I find most of your thoughts to be thoughtful and insightful, but to start a post with a phrase used by pimply faces little ****s still wet behind the ears, is beneath you to be honest.

No, not mad at all as I have no skin in the game. I am however very blunt and speak my mind. The comment that was made about prosecution was quite simply the equivalent of punching in the nuke codes and waiting for an excuse to fire. Blackmail nothing more.


I find both of the issues to be just that, issues. Both of which are potentially marriage ending.

The last part of my post reflected my opinion that there should never be a stay at home anything, woman or man.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> He said he didn't ask me because he knew I'd say no.


Would you have said no? 
Don't get me wrong, what he did was not ok and he did technically violate your privacy but I think your marriage must have been in the wrong place for a while if you have that kind of dynamic going on where he doesn't feel he can ask you these things.

I often read here women complaining what a 'perv' their husband is for <insert anything sexual he wants to do with/to his wife> but the truth is, the woman is already repulsed by husband and actually wants to leave him but in many cases she can't. She either fell out of love or is not attracted to him anymore, sex slows down or stops and husbands starts doing crazy **** because he can't get his kinks filled due to wife being repulsed by him. Maybe that's not the case here But maybe root cause should be addressed. This is a symptom of an ailing marriage.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I would not believe him for a minute when he says that he videod you because he wants you and does not find porn stimulating, or whatever he said. Nonsense. If he has a huge amount of downloaded porn, he was most likley trading his porn to get more porn.


Why? I mean maybe he did but I find it VERY unlikely. Who on earth 'trades' porn nowadays when you can have ANY kind of porn for free on the internet. I can actually completely understand that porn gets incredibly boring and I also prefer seeing my wife (if I travel and can't have her). The only difference is that she _*lets*_ me take photos/videos of her or she does it herself and sends it to me when I am away. I don't think I am a 'pervert' for wanting to see her nor would I ever 'trade' it for some brainless porn. 
I suppose if I asked her, she could accuse me of being a 'pervert' if she wanted to.
But yes, of course doing it without permission, is not permissible. I think this is a separate issue (that it was done without her knowledge) but it doesn't automatically follow that he 'must be putting this online'.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> We've been married for 25 years and have 4 children. Our marriage has been good for the most part. We've had our ups and downs, but nothing serious. My husband's sex drive has always been very high and mine, average. Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most. But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week. He seemed more interested in quantity over quality. He would also make jabs at me, like after we'd make love, he'd say 'yeah, well when's the last time we did it' or 'you could have at least given me oral'. So that lead to a lot of resentment on both sides. I told him I can't live like this, feeling like no matter what I do, or how often, it's not enough. I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me. But he wanted to stay.
> 
> Fast forward a few years & kids later, things seemed better. He seemed satisfied with once a week, sometimes twice if the stars aligned 😉 we didn't bicker at all about it. Long story short (that I'll spare you) I discovered thousands of deleted pornography pictures and hundreds of videos. I really didn't care, I don't find anything wrong with porn. Maybe the sheer about bothered me a bit.
> 
> ...


While you being upset is understandable, your husband didn't really cross any serious boundaries. You're his wife, and you have sex with him. So it would stand to reason that he sees you naked, and you're ok with him seeing you naked. Thus, him recording you naked is not an invasion of your privacy in that way. Provided he did not share the videos in any way - which you said he didn't. Sure, it wasn't the best decision, but he's hardly a stranger. He's your husband.

You stated that your responsibilities have had a negative impact on your sexual relationship, and thus on your husband's happiness and well-being. Have you considered that your responsibilities are less important than your husband and his happiness? Have you considered that by only being intimate when it's convenient for you, that you're disregarding your husband and his needs? Is that how you would want to be treated?

You might consider that if you trimmed back your extra responsibilities, and put effort into meeting his sexual needs, that he would be happier. Which would increase his attentiveness, productivity, and his love for you. Which could very well make you happier in turn, and possibly even result in you enjoying sex, life, and your marriage, a great deal more.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BioFury said:


> While you being upset is understandable, your husband didn't really cross any serious boundaries. You're his wife, and you have sex with him. So it would stand to reason that he sees you naked, and you're ok with him seeing you naked. Thus, him recording you naked is not an invasion of your privacy in that way. Provided he did not share the videos in any way - which you said he didn't.


It's the 'without her knowing' bit that is the offending part. And she is right to be offended. However there are some women who write similar stories as above but who often get offended at the part where the husband _wants_ to see them naked.
The two are very different.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Windwalker said:


> I see the old double standard rearing it's ugly head.
> 
> I mean it's perfectly fine for the sahw to be totally terrified at the prospect of losing her money train, but it's not OK for a man to be concerned about getting ass raped for the family divorce complex.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but you are an idiot! They have 4 kids one who is special needs. Tell me on what planet will some magic fairy come along and look after the kids while she works, childcare is expensive. They sound level headed so I am sure they have made the decision for her to stay at home. A special needs school is also expensive, time consuming. You have obviously some issues in your own life which you are projecting here.How does her getting a job, added to kids, housework etc help their specific situation? Further, being an HW is a fully time job, ffs, you try it and see. I have done both and will tell you I would rather go to work , it is much easier!
I think the one redeeming factor OP, is that you are much loved and desirable to your H, he wants you not anyone else, no porn stars etc. You have to make time for him and do all you can to increase your libido and meet him half way.
He should not have recorded you without your permission though, but tbh there are many women on here who would be delighted if their H was so much into them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> Why? I mean maybe he did but I find it VERY unlikely. Who on earth 'trades' porn nowadays when you can have ANY kind of porn for free on the internet.


It's not all that unlikely at all. There are a fair number of men who do that on the internet. We have had several women post on TAM who found out that their husbands were take videos and photos of them secretly and trading them. If you search the internet, there area site



inmyprime said:


> I can actually completely understand that porn gets incredibly boring and I also prefer seeing my wife (if I travel and can't have her). The only difference is that she _*lets*_ me take photos/videos of her or she does it herself and sends it to me when I am away. I don't think I am a 'pervert' for wanting to see her nor would I ever 'trade' it for some brainless porn.


And I don't think that anyone here has said that you are a pervert for doing that. What's wrong it taking pictures/vides of someone when they are naked and/or having sex without their permission. 



inmyprime said:


> I suppose if I asked her, she could accuse me of being a 'pervert' if she wanted to.


If she is into it with you, why would she say that?



inmyprime said:


> But yes, of course doing it without permission, is not permissible. I think this is a separate issue (that it was done without her knowledge) but it doesn't automatically follow that he 'must be putting this online'.


Yes, he's taking photos/videos of his wife without her permission or knowledge. That's wrong.

Of course no one here knows 100% that he is or is not putting them online and/or trading them. But the fact is that a good number of men do that. The OP cannot trust him. Why would she believe him when he says that he did not share the photos?


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## Raju Rio (Dec 24, 2015)

make sure that he keeps videos n pictures private. That is important.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

What I read is she's a proud mother and that's what is important to her. She's not much of a wife and being one isn't important to her.

Because she has little interest in his wants/needs he adapted and pursued other means for some fulfillment. If she had minded her own business and not snooped thru his private stuff life would have been just fine.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

I think a polygraph is in order here. 

Pics and videos of her w/out her knowledge for his own personal use is wrong.

Trading/showing others that stuff is catastrophic.

Figure out which one it is and go from there.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> I find most of your thoughts to be thoughtful and insightful, but to start a post with a phrase used by pimply faces little ****s still wet behind the ears, is beneath you to be honest.
> 
> No, not mad at all as I have no skin in the game. I am however very blunt and speak my mind. The comment that was made about prosecution was quite simply the equivalent of punching in the nuke codes and waiting for an excuse to fire. Blackmail nothing more.
> 
> ...


Sorry. My sense of humor tends to be tongue-in-cheek and sarcastic, which doesn't always come across over text.

Yeah, prosecution is over the top.

Two issues need to be addressed - the violation of privacy, and the lack of compromise over sex.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> I agree....
> 
> You have a poor body image of yourself. He obviously loves you. He has a high sex drive and he is using inappropriate avenues for release. Your drive is probably low to non-existent if your truthful... Therapy probably can work there. Do you find your husband attractive and sexy? What does he think that you view him as such....
> 
> ...


So...the poor, misunderstood fellow was just acting out because he's so _desperate_ for her love, is that it? And even though he's got thousands of videos and pictures of naked women, just because the pervert ALSO took secret videos of the OP alone and when she was having sex with this deviant, you think SHE'S the object of his desire? 

Seriously? She's just one of thousands. 

So the answer to his humping her leg every chance he gets because he's clearly over-sexed, plus his thousands of porn videos and pictures all *really *mean that *she* should communicate better with him so he can feel '_*safe?*_' Awww, the poor snowflake! He's got his hidden cameras taking videos of her that she did NOT give him permission to film, and yet it really all comes down to this poor guy simply being misunderstood because he doesn't feel _*safe*_?

Good lord.

OP, personally I'd kick his damned ass out the front door so hard his own mother would feel it in Peoria. I'm sorry, but he's just such a pig.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

It kinda blows my mind that there's so much focus on the OP's mismatched sex drive and communication issues in the relationship. TBH that's the least of their issues now. What her husband did is both incredibly creepy but more importantly a clear violation to their marriage and her rights. The fact that he had been doing this for some time and captured all sorts of random footage is really very alarming.

I'm not anti-porn and would never judge anyone for their kinks. But the OPs husband here has a shown a serious dark side.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Windwalker said:


> The last part of my post reflected my opinion that there should never be a stay at home anything, woman or man.


Did you miss the part about the special needs child? And the other three children? You've got to be joking!

I'm a SAHM for a special needs teen and it's EXHAUSTING. And I don't have three other children to care for on top of that! There are times when I really have to put myself out there for my husband.

Any way you slice it, no child will get better care than at home with their parent.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

This is kind of the same old issue. Why in the day and age it still exists I am not ever sure that I understand it. 

1st Issue) He was a creep and totally wrong to do the video and pictures with out consent. No question about that. He was wrong and you cannot get around it. It is divorce worth is she wanted that. 

2nd Issue) This is actually maybe more important that the first issue, debatable. Mismatched sex drives, lack of sexual compatibility, lack of communication and lack of compromise. 

Why do people marry and have kids in this situation? Why, Why, Why???? Why do people accept it, why do people "do" it to their spouse (to much, too little, or none at all)? 

Did neither of them even think this was going to be an issue before they married? 

What happened to love and desire for your partner on both sides. Why is a husband not cheating and wanting his wife a bad thing? And why is a woman wanting her husband and not cheating a bad thing. 

All of these thread really boil down to this. And the question is WHY? If you don't find your husband or wife attractive and you have fallen out of love, have the courage to divorce them. 

If your sex drive is gone for whatever reason, male or female, tell them the truth and let them go. 

Why do two people do this type of thing to each other. 

I am not be brightest light bulb in the box and it has taken me a long time to learn some things, but I was never so stupid as to stay in a relationship, or date a woman where we were not on the same page it terms of sex? 

Why is my question???


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I'd demand a polygraph. I would not take his word that he hadn't posted or shared this video.

I think porn was not enough so he wanted to be a porn star. Well you aren't a porn star if nobody sees it.

If you choose to stay in this relationship then you two need counseling. If he doesn't want quality sex then don't have sex unless you are ok with that. Both people have needs. One of my needs is if you are going to orgasm then I need one too. Sometimes ok without one but that's my choice not some rocket man.

First find out the whole truth then figure out how to move forward


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Right because it’s completely reasonable that a wife raising 4kids, one being special needs, has a sex drive that matches her husband who wants sex daily minimum. Totally reasonable. In fact, she should have willingly made the videos since she can only give her husband sex once a week. Terrible wife, only sticking around so she doesn’t have to work to support herself!

My god this thread is stunning!


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## salparadise (Sep 13, 2016)

BioFury said:


> While you being upset is understandable, your husband didn't really cross any serious boundaries. You're his wife, and you have sex with him. So it would stand to reason that he sees you naked, and you're ok with him seeing you naked. Thus, him recording you naked is not an invasion of your privacy in that way. Provided he did not share the videos in any way - which you said he didn't. Sure, it wasn't the best decision, but he's hardly a stranger. He's your husband.


While I agree that the above are mitigating factors to some degree, objectively speaking, taping her having sex without her knowledge is pretty much indefensible. Given said mitigating factors, it's one of those "eye of the beholder" things... she can make as much hay out of it as suits her purpose. It seems as though the purpose here is to vilify him and claim the moral high ground, double down on resentment and cut off what little bit of sex there was in this marriage. She can use it as leverage to berate and castrate if she so chooses. 

In a loving marriage where the couple adore each other and are primarily motivated to make it wonderful, it might be resolved with something as simple as "sweetheart, I'm not comfortable with this and I need you to promise to never do it again without asking first."




Beyond Betrayed said:


> So that lead to *a lot of resentment* on both sides. [....] I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me.
> 
> ...said [he] will do whatever it takes to make it up to me and earn my trust back. But I can't even look at him. He was my best friend and was supposed to honor me and keep me safe. I can't sleep in our room or even get dressed in there. I feel so betrayed and violated. I'm afraid beyond repair.
> 
> I need advice. I'm a homemaker, we have 4 kids, one with special needs. So leaving isn't an easy decision. I need guidance and help.


The real problem in this marriage is that resentment has crept in and is firmly established. This causes everything to be seen in a negative light. Tiny annoyances that could once be easily dismissed serve to fuel the flame and it becomes a tightening spiral of death for the marriage. 

With regard to the sex, OP basically told him it's my way or the highway. Control is the response to resentment, and what could be more effective than limiting a man's access to sex to some fraction of what might be seen as a reasonable compromise. When women use sex as an instrument of control it may feel powerful at the time, but overall it's losing strategy if a healthy marriage is the goal.

OP asks for guidance and help. Many of the women here are only too happy to affirm her victim status and tell her what an awful person her husband is for this egregious act of betrayal. Well, if she want out I supposed it helps to feel fully justified. However, if you want to work on turning this into a healthy marriage, OP, then I'd suggest that you accept his apology and promise never to do it again, and just let it go. Then work on eliminating the resentment and willingly meeting each other's needs, emotionally and sexually (counseling, of course). You just have to decide if you're cashing out or going all in on this marriage. Nobody can make that decision for you (although many will try to tell you they know what's best). If you cash out things are going to be difficult for a long damn time. If you stay in it's going to be hard work and a different kind of sacrifice, but you just might turn this into the marriage you both wish it could be.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anon Pink said:


> Right because it’s completely reasonable that a wife raising 4kids, one being special needs, has a sex drive that matches her husband who wants sex daily minimum. Totally reasonable. In fact, she should have willingly made the videos since she can only give her husband sex once a week. Terrible wife, only sticking around so she doesn’t have to work to support herself!
> 
> My god this thread is stunning!


Humbly I don't agree with this. He's a creep that's for sure. I definitely disagree with that activity. Flogging could be required.
To be dealt with as OP sees fit.

The rest is balance, through good communication if a repair is desired by both. It's possible both won't want or either may not want a repair. 
My comment is think, then act.
Good luck and strength to OP.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

gowithuhtred said:


> Humbly I don't agree with this. He's a creep that's for sure. I definitely disagree with that activity. Flogging could be required.
> To be dealt with as OP sees fit.
> 
> The rest is balance, through good communication if a repair is desired by both. It's possible both won't want or either may not want a repair.
> ...


I get your POV and I don’t disagree. 

However, IMO she cannot ever trust this man again and that precludes any chance of true reconciliation. He violated her in a dastardly and despicable way. Just because her body was already known to him doesn’t mean he had any right to assume invading her was forgivable. IMO, it’s not. Period.

It would be easier to reconcile after an affair than to reconcile after this kind of invasion and betrayal.


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## Johann Sebastian (Mar 20, 2018)

This behavior by H is super-creepy. W needs to decide whether she wants to stay or go and then act accordingly.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

A couple of things.

His secretly taping you is absolutely not OK, and a real violation. 

That said, a marriage with badly mismatched sex drives puts a huge strain on both. 

I'm in a badly mismatched marriage. I've thought of the idea of taping my wife so that I would have videos of her to watch (OK porn) for all the times when she is not willing to have sex with me. Its because I am attracted to *her*, not some random porn star. Now - I've never done it, and never would because of the violation of trust - but the motivation may not be nearly as dark as some people are painting it. 

(or it may be very dark - hard to know).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anon Pink said:


> I get your POV and I don’t disagree.
> 
> However, IMO she cannot ever trust this man again and that precludes any chance of true reconciliation. He violated her in a dastardly and despicable way. Just because her body was already known to him doesn’t mean he had any right to assume invading her was forgivable. IMO, it’s not. Period.
> 
> It would be easier to reconcile after an affair than to reconcile after this kind of invasion and betrayal.


I don't disagree with this, IMHO. I'm withholding what I would do in this case. Well by not disagreeing I'm kind of saying but I also know I'm not the OP. 😀


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> It's not all that unlikely at all. There are a fair number of men who do that on the internet. We have had several women post on TAM who found out that their husbands were take videos and photos of them secretly and trading them. If you search the internet, there area site


But what are they trading them for? I guess I’m trying to understand what the kink is; is it showing off your wife to some other pervert or something else? Because you can get any porn you want and watching a woman having a shower or whatever is not that interesting to anyone else. And if it’s interesting to the husband then his intention is to get off on her and those are not especially ‘dark’ or perverty intentions. (Leaving aside the fact that he did it without permission).




EleGirl said:


> And I don't think that anyone here has said that you are a pervert for doing that. What's wrong it taking pictures/vides of someone when they are naked and/or having sex without their permission.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly. My point was that if she wasn’t into me, then she would be much more likely to say something like that if she found out that she was still the object of my desire. But because she doesn’t mind me desiring her (in fact she likes it), she would never have that kind of reaction. But she would still probably be annoyed if I taped her doing something she wouldn’t want me to see. So I would never do that in case it could break or damage the trust.





EleGirl said:


> Yes, he's taking photos/videos of his wife without her permission or knowledge. That's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course no one here knows 100% that he is or is not putting them online and/or trading them. But the fact is that a good number of men do that. The OP cannot trust him. Why would she believe him when he says that he did not share the photos?



Why would she not? I don’t follow the logic: if other men do something, it doesn’t mean that every other man is likely to do the same. I don’t think these ‘kinks’ always come in a predetermined package.

I’m curious: has there been a precedent when a husband taped or took a naked picture of his wife without asking her (but without sharing with anyone else) and he went to jail for it? 



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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I get your POV and I don’t disagree.
> 
> However, IMO she cannot ever trust this man again and that precludes any chance of true reconciliation. He violated her in a dastardly and despicable way. Just because her body was already known to him doesn’t mean he had any right to assume invading her was forgivable. IMO, it’s not. Period.
> 
> It would be easier to reconcile after an affair than to reconcile after this kind of invasion and betrayal.


I think that one problem with this thread is that many men cannot relate to how awful this is for women. After I saw this thread, I asked three male friends how they would feel if they discovered that their wife secretly recorded having sex so that she could watch it later. They said that they would feel that while their wives should tell them first, they all felt that it would not be that big of a deal to them. Two of them added that they could only dream that their wives would want to do that. 

Therefore we should not ignore one's perspective. What the husband did was wrong. At the same time, the husband maybe didn't think it was doing something terrible.

As for myself, personally I would much much much rather prefer that my wife secretly taped us having sex than to have an affair.


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## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Did you miss the part about the special needs child? And the other three children? You've got to be joking!
> 
> I'm a SAHM for a special needs teen and it's EXHAUSTING. And I don't have three other children to care for on top of that! There are times when I really have to put myself out there for my husband.
> 
> Any way you slice it, no child will get better care than at home with their parent.





Windwalker said:


> The last part of my post reflected my opinion that there should never be a stay at home anything, woman or man.


Windwalker:

You are a major league asshat!!!!!


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

It seems pretty clear that gender is a huge factor in how this whole video fact pattern is perceived.


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## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

Tron said:


> It seems pretty clear that gender is a huge factor in how this whole video fact pattern is perceived.


How so? Would you care to explain?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Steve1000 said:


> I think that one problem with this thread is that many men cannot relate to how awful this is for women. After I saw this thread, I asked three male friends how they would feel if they discovered that their wife secretly recorded having sex so that she could watch it later. They said that they would feel that while their wives should tell them first, they all felt that it would not be that big of a deal to them. Two of them added that they could only dream that their wives would want to do that.
> 
> Therefore we should not ignore one's perspective. What the husband did was wrong. At the same time, the husband maybe didn't think it was doing something terrible.
> 
> As for myself, personally I would much much much rather prefer that my wife secretly taped us having sex than to have an affair.


v.



Anon Pink said:


> I get your POV and I don’t disagree.
> 
> However, IMO she cannot ever trust this man again and that precludes any chance of true reconciliation. He violated her in a dastardly and despicable way. Just because her body was already known to him doesn’t mean he had any right to assume invading her was forgivable. IMO, it’s not. Period.
> 
> It would be easier to reconcile after an affair than to reconcile after this kind of invasion and betrayal.


If you don't see the difference between "cool bro" and "dastardly and despicable/worse than an affair", I can't help you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

NickyT said:


> He violated your privacy, plain and simple. Someone who would do something that sneaky can not be trusted. He had all kinds of porn on his computer. I don't think it is a leap to wonder if he uploaded to an amateur site for a thrill. Grim thought.


They both violated each others privacy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> But what are they trading them for? I guess I’m trying to understand what the kink is; is it showing off your wife to some other pervert or something else? Because you can get any porn you want and watching a woman having a shower or whatever is not that interesting to anyone else. And if it’s interesting to the husband then his intention is to get off on her and those are not especially ‘dark’ or perverty intentions. (Leaving aside the fact that he did it without permission).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guys trade these pics for pics of the other guys women. It's the internet version of a circle jerk. Also, some guys get off on being told how hot their women are etc. She can't trust him because he has deceived her in one of the areas she finds most sacred - an area he knew her thoughts and feelings on. As far as she is concerned, he is capable of anything. She doesn't care what other men do or don't do - she only cares about the one who has betrayed her trust.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Guys trade these pics for pics of the other guys women. It's the internet version of a circle jerk. Also, some guys get off on being told how hot their women are etc.



Gross. First time I hear that this is an actual thing.




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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BluesPower said:


> This is kind of the same old issue. Why in the day and age it still exists I am not ever sure that I understand it.
> 
> 1st Issue) He was a creep and totally wrong to do the video and pictures with out consent. No question about that. He was wrong and you cannot get around it. It is divorce worth is she wanted that.
> 
> ...


Why? Bait and switch. The low drive spouse thing is epidemic here. I have no idea whats wrong with low drive men.But lets face it, many women seem to be high drive before marriage/kids and turn sexless after.

There is a biological reason a woman and man has sex when the woman can't conceive or gets to old to bear children. Even grandma can do it, thank God. Its simply to bind the man to his mate for life. Religiously or evolutionary the answer is the same.

Traditional marriage vows include each persons responsibility to their mate.

Since I graduated from college, I have been in the construction industry and have worked on everything from a shed to an 8 billion dollar nuclear power plant. Take an iron worker for example. Whether busting rods or walking high girders for 40+ hours, your talking stress and untold fatigue. Yet, on average, they go home and manage to be great lovers and fathers and the same with the other trades. I never once heard a man say he was to tired to have sex.

Having often been able to stay home, clean house, wash windows, dishes, mop, vacuum etc. For weather or other circumstances, for me that was like holiday vacation day,easy. My grandmothers had no dishwashers, automatic washing machines, clothes dryers or even a hot water heater maybe. They raised 5+ kids, a huge garden, canned food, raised chickens etc. The children helped. So excuse me when I hear I'm too tired. Because what I see is an out of shape woman,lazy and out of love with her husband. How hard can loving your husband be if you really wanted to. Hell, a hooker can do several strangers in a day and be enthusiastic I assume from watching TV. But in this instance once a week is a hardship. Many counselors say 3 times a month is the borderline of a sexless marriage.

What her husband did isn't right, but the what they have isn't even a marriage.

P.S. If the videos were on his computer and she got on it, isn't that illegal too? I keep hearing that on the infidelity section.

I notice the OP has only made one post, Hmmmmm


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Guys trade these pics for pics of the other guys women. It's the internet version of a circle jerk. Also, some guys get off on being told how hot their women are etc. She can't trust him because he has deceived her in one of the areas she finds most sacred - an area he knew her thoughts and feelings on. As far as she is concerned, he is capable of anything. She doesn't care what other men do or don't do - she only cares about the one who has betrayed her trust.


I'm having a hard time believing this is more than extremely rare. I guess she can go through all his porn and see if there are more amateur wives on video.

The internet is covered with free porn. I don't have any idea how they pay the bills but they do.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Gross. First time I hear that this is an actual thing.
> end quote by inmyprime
> 
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> I'm having a hard time believing this is more than extremely rare. I guess she can go through all his porn and see if there are more amateur wives on video.
> 
> 
> 
> The internet is covered with free porn. I don't have any idea how they pay the bills but they do.



Yes I googled it (for educational purposes, obviously  ) and can’t seem to find any reference to this kind of fetish at all. I mean there is a lot of ‘amateur’ porn out there but it’s clearly ‘fake’ amateur (with actors) plus in none of the videos that I came across is the woman ever not aware that she is being filmed.

But also: who would seriously bother? Or care? I’m sure few people do it, like with everything, but I don’t see any evidence that this is widespread at all and makes me think that there’s a bit of scaremongering going on perhaps.



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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> We've been married for 25 years and have 4 children. Our marriage has been good for the most part. We've had our ups and downs, but nothing serious. My husband's sex drive has always been very high and mine, average. Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most. But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week. He seemed more interested in quantity over quality. He would also make jabs at me, like after we'd make love, he'd say 'yeah, well when's the last time we did it' or 'you could have at least given me oral'. So that lead to a lot of resentment on both sides. I told him I can't live like this, feeling like no matter what I do, or how often, it's not enough. I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me. But he wanted to stay.
> 
> Fast forward a few years & kids later, things seemed better. He seemed satisfied with once a week, sometimes twice if the stars aligned 😉 we didn't bicker at all about it. Long story short (that I'll spare you) I discovered thousands of deleted pornography pictures and hundreds of videos. I really didn't care, I don't find anything wrong with porn. Maybe the sheer about bothered me a bit.
> 
> ...


Filming you without your permission, especially when you are having sex and naked is so wrong and may even be illegal in some countries/states. I knew another marriage where that happened and her trust in him was shattered. They are now divorced. 

He doesn't need therapy, he needs to stop the porn and secret filming, out of respect for you the woman he is supposed to love.

What concerns me is that he may well have posted these films on line. The husband of a friend I used to have did that. She was devastated.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I would be honored if someone secretly filmed me.........but I would probably be tried for crimes against humanity.........


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

BradWesley2 said:


> Windwalker:
> 
> You are a major league asshat!!!!!


Awww, tell somebody who gives a runny squirt what your opinion is.

Coming from someone of your stature, that must make me a MENSA level Nobel candidate.

Snowflakes and their poor poor hurt feewings.
:rofl:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Filming you without your permission, especially when you are having sex and naked is so wrong and may even be illegal in some countries/states. I knew another marriage where that happened and her trust in him was shattered. They are now divorced.
> 
> He doesn't need therapy, he needs to stop the porn and secret filming, out of respect for you the woman he is supposed to love.
> 
> What concerns me is that he may well have posted these films on line. The husband of a friend I used to have did that. She was devastated.




The husband of a friend posted the films online? So what happened? Did she prosecute him? She should have. I think they have now tough laws on ‘revenge porn’.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

A laptop of a friend of mine got stolen once and he had some short films of him and the girl he was going out with at the time on it (she is kind of a mini celebrity). The videos later appeared online and it barely made the news when she was recognised. It was already 15 years ago when porn was harder to come by. I really am not sure anybody cares anymore. So many celebrities are also photoshopped into porn and you sometimes can't tell the difference. It's all drowned in a big, disgusting porn noise out there.
Still, it doesn't make it right of course.


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## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> Awww, tell somebody who gives a runny squirt what your opinion is.
> 
> Coming from someone of your stature, that must make me a MENSA level Nobel candidate.
> 
> ...


Really disappointed in your response. It really shows that you are nothing but an internet "tough guy", who IRL is nothing more than a wimp and *****, who gets his rocks off talking on forums.

I really have more important things to do than banter with someone of your ilk. This will be the end of our conversation.

P.S. - I am a member of American Mensa.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

BradWesley2 said:


> Windwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Awww, tell somebody who gives a runny squirt what your opinion is.
> ...


Dude, you called him an asshat. What did you think was going to happen?

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

P.S. - No one cares.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> There is no question that him filming it without your knowledge IS some type of violation. Are these just videotapes or files on your home computer? Has he posted them somewhere or are they in the cloud?
> 
> If they are NOT somewhere on the web, then it wouldn't bother me as much. On the web - I'd be FURIOUS.
> 
> You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.


I should be clear, when we were fighting about sex and it got really bad there for a bit, I asked him if he wanted a divorce. I obviously was not giving him the life he desired and needed. I truly didn't want him to leave, but I loved him enough to let him go if he was THAT miserable and sex starved. Give me a break, life gets in the way unfortunately, fair or not, that's how it is. So, if you need it THAT badly and I can't do it 5 times a week (1-2 wasn't enough), then get it from someone who can give it to you. Not on the side, but entirely. He didn't want a divorce, so he stayed.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> There is no question that him filming it without your knowledge IS some type of violation. Are these just videotapes or files on your home computer? Has he posted them somewhere or are they in the cloud?
> 
> If they are NOT somewhere on the web, then it wouldn't bother me as much. On the web - I'd be FURIOUS.
> 
> You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.


I didn't elaborate in my original post on the "go find someone else", I didn't want it to be a 10 page article. Just so I'm clear, I did not tell him to go get a side piece. We were fighting about our sex life, constantly. It was exhausting. I knew he wasn't happy, and neither was I. I asked him if he wanted to get a divorce and find someone else who could make him happy; to find the life he was looking for. He didn't want to (neither did I).


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

I just wanted to be clear to some people who are asking why I told him to get a girlfriend. To be clear, I asked him if he wanted a divorce; to find someone else who could make him happy. To find the life he was yearning for, because it felt like he wasn't living the life he wanted with me.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Anon Pink said:


> The trouble in providing guidance is that you don’t state what it is you ultimately want.
> 
> You, of course, are right to feel utterly betrayed, hurt, mistrustful, disgusted, enraged, humiliated, embarrassed, violated... You are right, of course, to want to protect yourself financially, and to be concerned about loss of physical support in coping with your special needs child. You are stuck in a position in which any consequences he deserves to suffer, and boy does he, would also impact you nearly as much as him.
> 
> ...


I've definitely been looking at some porn sites on the amateur/hidden camera tabs to see if anything looks like my bedroom. Sucks, to be honest. I've seen more porn this week than I have my entire life! But, I'm starting to believe he did make these recordings just for his enjoyment; at least I have to, so I don't go crazy. And for the record, I would have never agreed to him taping us. No judgement on anyone who likes to do it, it's just not for me. I'm too shy.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> There is no question that him filming it without your knowledge IS some type of violation. Are these just videotapes or files on your home computer? Has he posted them somewhere or are they in the cloud?
> 
> If they are NOT somewhere on the web, then it wouldn't bother me as much. On the web - I'd be FURIOUS.
> 
> You are very entitled to your boundaries. However, he wants every day, and you want once a week. And your "compromise" was once a week or he can go find someone else? Doesn't sound like much of a compromise.



I didn't elaborate in my original post on the "go get it from someone else", I didn't want it to be a 10 page article. Just so I'm clear, I did not tell him to go get a side piece. We were fighting about our sex life, constantly. It was exhausting. I knew he wasn't happy, and neither was I. I asked him if he wanted to get a divorce and find someone who could make him happy; to find the life he was looking for. He didn't want to (neither did I).


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Seppuku said:


> I think there will generally be differing opinions based on the gender of the respondent and/or their personal situation (libido disparity, etc.). IMO there are two factors at play here.
> 
> 1. He violated your privacy, and for that, he will have to endure whatever consequences come. As to what they should be, I can't say. That's up to you to decide.
> 
> ...


I asked him why he did this, and he said I knew if I would have asked you, you would have said no. And he was right. There's no way I'd allow him to record us in our most private and intimate moments; whether or not they'd leave his possession. 

And I should clear up the "get it from someone else", I asked him if he wanted a divorce so that he could find someone else that could make him happy; not have a girlfriend on the side. He didn't want to get a divorce, and neither did I....but I was willing to give up what we had to stop the constant bickering.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> I see the old double standard rearing it's ugly head.
> 
> I mean it's perfectly fine for the sahw to be totally terrified at the prospect of losing her money train, but it's not OK for a man to be concerned about getting ass raped for the family divorce complex.
> 
> ...


Firstly, money train? lol. I've been with the same man for 30 years (married 25), I worked my entire adult life until the both of us decided to have children in our 30's; and TOGETHER we decided that I would give up my job and stay home with the kids. We're middle class, blue collar, struggling every week to make our one paycheck stretch, so I can raise our children and not put them in daycare. A partnership is just that. Just because one person makes the money, that doesn't negate what the homemaker does.

Secondly, what do you suppose I do with my special needs child that can't tell me if anything is happening to her while in some strangers care? That's what I mean about this isn't an easy decision. It's not just about me and what I'm giving up if I leave; it's about a lot more than that. If it were just my other three 'typical' children and me? I'd have left the moment I saw myself naked on the computer screen.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

BradWesley2 said:


> Really disappointed in your response. It really shows that you are nothing but an internet "tough guy", who IRL is nothing more than a wimp and *****, who gets his rocks off talking on forums.
> 
> I'm really disappointed that you that you think you can get away with running your ill-bred mouth to someone and not get it shoved right back down your throat. You sure do like to toss a lot of generalizations and stereotypes around for someone showing the intelligence of an amoeba. What my reply does show is that I am a smartass. Take a swipe and expect it back, cupcake. I belong to exactly one forum on the internet. I try to be a helpful poster, but unfortunately I'm going to rub some people wrong with my harsh words. Easy come, easy go.
> 
> ...


I have to admit. I don't like you, I dont like your snarky mouthed little snipe shots you like to take at people if their opinion doesn't match yours. You add very little, if anything to this forum. All one has to do is go through your post history to see that. Your hypocrisy obviously knows no bounds. 

Last time I checked, opinions are welcome here. Now if I missed the memo and you have somehow been made God, please let me know. Don't like a comment, block me. Otherwise, go pound sand.

Now, the conversation is done snowflake.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

musicftw07 said:


> The OP has no problem with her H having sex with someone else, but has a problem with her H filming her instead. This is an odd one.
> 
> FTR: Her H filming her without her knowledge was definitely a bad thing to do. I will not dispute that. I do think it's telling that he chose to get whatever intimacy with his wife via the filming that he could instead of seeking relief in the arms of another woman. That tells me that what he's seeking is intimacy with HER, and that's what he truly desires. Because of that, I can't find it within myself to completely excoriate the man in spite of what was obviously a poor decision.
> 
> ...


First, let me be clear about the "find someone else"; when it got really bad with the fighting, I asked him if he wanted a divorce, not a side piece! He wasn't happy with me and what I could give him, so I told him to find it somewhere else. He didn't want a divorce, and neither did I. 

I'm not perfect; my sex drive for whatever reason has never been high. When we were young and without kids, mortgage, responsibilities, etc... I'd be content with maybe twice a week. My outlook has always been that sex is fun; the cherry on top of the cake of life. It isn't the whole cake. I don't know if that makes sense. But I have not changed, I wasn't this sex kitten who was ready, willing and able at the drop of hat whenever he gave me "the look", ya know?!? So, why expect that after 3-4 kids and everything that goes with having these responsibilities. 

Now, as far as the porn goes. I totally don't care that he watches it, it takes the pressure off of me to be honest. However that does not, in any way, shape or form, give him permission to set up a hidden nanny camera in my bedroom and tape me getting dressed or having sex; and not just once (it was 4-8 times, he can't remember). Regardless of his intentions, I hold absolutely no responsibility for the recordings. He even told me that he knew if he asked me to tape us, I would have said no!


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> I read the having sex with another person as meaning 'get a new wife'.
> 
> Any woman who has 4 children with one of them being special needs isn't going to have the energy to keep up with a high-drive husband.
> 
> ...



Yes, it's crazy how many people on here have interpreted my "find someone else" as, he can get a side piece! No! I asked him if he wanted a divorce, so he can find someone else who can fulfill what he needs; because it clearly wasn't me.

And I never had a high sex drive, even before kids. Maybe twice a week and I was totally content. So after 4 kids (and the stress of having one with special needs), yeah, I'm lucky I take a shower every day, let alone find the energy at night after everyone is finally in bed, dishes washed, laundry started, lunches made, etc... to be in the mood. It's not fair to him, but it's life. And my special needs child can't be in daycare; she can't tell me if something is wrong or if someone does something to her. I'm her caregiver 24/7. So thank you for your support and feedback, I appreciate it!

I actually found out last week; I was running a hard drive recovery because our external hard drive failed; so it was totally by accident. My kids are late teens to 4 years old.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I've definitely been looking at some porn sites on the amateur/hidden camera tabs to see if anything looks like my bedroom. Sucks, to be honest.


Really? Are you serious? 

Well, I also trawled through some sites to see if anything looks like my bedroom...just in case. The problem is all of the amateur porn have such ****ty bedrooms...It's a real turn off for me. The interior sucks and camera work is really third grade; shaky and grainy. We did much better videos than this...



Beyond Betrayed said:


> I've seen more porn this week than I have my entire life! But, I'm starting to believe he did make these recordings just for his enjoyment; at least I have to, so I don't go crazy. *And for the record*, I would have never agreed to him taping us. No judgement on anyone who likes to do it, it's just not for me. I'm too shy.


Freudian slip? :laugh: 

I think you should tell him off and say that it's not ok to record you without your permission.

And then give him your permission at some point, when he finishes his house arrest :wink2:

It's absolutely shameful and disgusting when husbands try to enjoy themselves by looking at their wives in the flesh, as Jesus made them.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

-


EleGirl said:


> @Beyond Betrayed
> 
> You say that your sex drive declined after you had children, had to care for a special needs child, etc. You also attribute a lot of your loss of lebido this to two things 1) your husband not being "making love" but instead just getting off sexually for himself and 2) him making snide remarks to you about sex.
> 
> ...


He is attentive, always asking if I'm ready. So, I can't complain in that regard. And in the recent years, he's backed off asking all the time to have sex....but then that's where the increased porn use came in. I knew about it, and I really didn't care. But I'm worried that if with all the porn out there, he found it boring, so then that's why he taped us....I worry about what's next? What will be next to fulfill him?


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## Saige (Oct 23, 2011)

Beyond Betrayed.... Despite this horrible overstep, you sound like you've got a lot of good things going for you and your marriage. Just reading that you've talked about these struggles and are able to both communicate what you're feeling in such a difficult spot points to you both having the tools it takes to move past this. You're allowing yourself to be angry, good! He's feels awful, good, he should. It is a start to a new direction. You are decades and 4 kids into this, and he is willing to go to counseling. Go too. Work through it together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Well I am sorry this happened to you. Your husband is an ******* for doing that without your permission. Sounds like you are staying out of necessity, I understand but that's sad. Are still not working? I think maybe you should rethink that to protect yourself. Someone who can violate someone like that, especially his wife is probably not going to be a safe partner and I would not trust his judgement. I would start thinking about protecting myself and my kids. 

You know if you had come here before this had happened I would have had a different take I would have encouraged you to try to find a way to make sex enjoyable for you and him, but after what he did. I don't blame you if you never sleep with him again.

Please don't assume you are safe, your not. Your husband is off.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

musicftw07 said:


> I completely agree, and in no way am I trying to say that her H was right in what he did. He was wrong, no doubt about it. She would have every right to divorce him over it, if she so chooses.
> 
> I just don't see this as a "W good, H bad" situation. It's not that cut and dry. If she plans on divorcing him over it, then it's moot in the end.
> 
> ...


I agree, I would never call the police on him. Unless he put it on a porn site! Then all bets are off.

But, from my perspective, I wish he would have just cheated and never taped me. Taping me in my most private moments and safe place was beyond devastating to me. It was as bad, if not worse, than had he cheated. To me anyway.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I asked him why he did this, and he said I knew if I would have asked you, you would have said no. And he was right. There's no way I'd allow him to record us in our most private and intimate moments; whether or not they'd leave his possession.
> 
> And I should clear up the "get it from someone else", I asked him if he wanted a divorce so that he could find someone else that could make him happy; not have a girlfriend on the side. He didn't want to get a divorce, and neither did I....but I was willing to give up what we had to stop the constant bickering.


I was just wondering: if he watches/observes you while having sex with you, is it very different than watching a video of you being intimate together? If you knew he would take all possible precautions for the files not to get out?

Assuming he is not a pervert who would ever share this stuff with other perverts: wouldn't that be a good solution for someone who can't get enough of you (sexually) so you could have a rest on some days and not have to sleep with him every day, which, as you said, you find exhausting?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I agree, I would never call the police on him. Unless he put it on a porn site! Then all bets are off.
> 
> But, from my perspective, I wish he would have just cheated and never taped me. Taping me in my most private moments and safe place was beyond devastating to me. It was as bad, if not worse, than had he cheated. To me anyway.



you have become his porn.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> I have to admit. I don't like you, I dont like your snarky mouthed little snipe shots you like to take at people if their opinion doesn't match yours. You add very little, if anything to this forum. All one has to do is go through your post history to see that. Your hypocrisy obviously knows no bounds.
> 
> Last time I checked, opinions are welcome here. Now if I missed the memo and you have somehow been made God, please let me know. Don't like a comment, block me. Otherwise, go pound sand.
> 
> Now, the conversation is done snowflake.


Gentlemen: please get a room already (and record yourselves: so you can hear how ridiculous your conversation is).


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Would you have said no?
> Don't get me wrong, what he did was not ok and he did technically violate your privacy but I think your marriage must have been in the wrong place for a while if you have that kind of dynamic going on where he doesn't feel he can ask you these things.
> 
> I often read here women complaining what a 'perv' their husband is for <insert anything sexual he wants to do with/to his wife> but the truth is, the woman is already repulsed by husband and actually wants to leave him but in many cases she can't. She either fell out of love or is not attracted to him anymore, sex slows down or stops and husbands starts doing crazy **** because he can't get his kinks filled due to wife being repulsed by him. Maybe that's not the case here But maybe root cause should be addressed. This is a symptom of an ailing marriage.


I asked him why didn't he ask me first, and he actually said "because I'd knew you'd say no". He also said that at the time he did the recordings, he put his needs and desires above what he knew was right. So he does get that what he did was wrong, on so many levels.

He asks me all the time for things. Lots of oral, anal, 69, toys, positions he sees on porn. I do some, but only what I'm comfortable with. He has NO PROBLEM discussing what he wants; I think the problem is, is I can't give it to him. I'm not going to do something that I find wrong (to me, no judgement on anyone else) or that I find degrading to me, just to get him off. That is not a loving, two way relationship. I would never ask him to perform a sexual act knowing he was turned off by it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I agree, I would never call the police on him. Unless he put it on a porn site! Then all bets are off.
> 
> But, from my perspective, I wish he would have just cheated and never taped me. Taping me in my most private moments and safe place was beyond devastating to me. It was as bad, if not worse, than had he cheated. To me anyway.


Do you really feel that cheating on you would have been better than him wanting to re-watch both of you having sex?
I don't understand the logic. You do understand that you are the focus of his sexual desire and that's why he finds regular porn boring (again, assuming he is not a pervert who would only keep this to himself). If he cheated on you, you could write the marriage off straight away because he would be 'off' you, probably for good.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> This is kind of the same old issue. Why in the day and age it still exists I am not ever sure that I understand it.
> 
> 1st Issue) He was a creep and totally wrong to do the video and pictures with out consent. No question about that. He was wrong and you cannot get around it. It is divorce worth is she wanted that.
> 
> ...


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

The filming was definitely wrong, but your comment was not misconstrued. Telling him if he wanted intimacy, he should divorce and go get it elsewhere, is worse than offering a hall pass. You devalued every need he had and told him his needs are worth nothing.

That was a horrible thing to say.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I asked him why didn't he ask me first, and he actually said "because I'd knew you'd say no". He also said that at the time he did the recordings, he put his needs and desires above what he knew was right. So he does get that what he did was wrong, on so many levels.
> 
> He asks me all the time for things. Lots of oral, anal, 69, toys, positions he sees on porn. I do some, but only what I'm comfortable with. He has NO PROBLEM discussing what he wants; I think the problem is, is I can't give it to him. I'm not going to do something that I find wrong (to me, no judgement on anyone else) or that I find degrading to me, just to get him off. That is not a loving, two way relationship. I would never ask him to perform a sexual act knowing he was turned off by it.


Yes, you shouldn't be pressured into doing anything you don't want to do. But don't immediately jump to conclusions that he's 'trading porn online' or that he should be 'getting it somewhere else'. Talk about it with him and always say what you are and what you are not comfortable with.
Imagine that he suffers from his high drive, just as much (if not more) as you suffer from your low drive. You can work together and find a middle ground you are both comfortable with. (After he realises that taping you without your permission is not ok).


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Firstly, money train? lol. I've been with the same man for 30 years (married 25), I worked my entire adult life until the both of us decided to have children in our 30's; and TOGETHER we decided that I would give up my job and stay home with the kids. We're middle class, blue collar, struggling every week to make our one paycheck stretch, so I can raise our children and not put them in daycare. A partnership is just that. Just because one person makes the money, that doesn't negate what the homemaker does.
> 
> Secondly, what do you suppose I do with my special needs child that can't tell me if anything is happening to her while in some strangers care? That's what I mean about this isn't an easy decision. It's not just about me and what I'm giving up if I leave; it's about a lot more than that. If it were just my other three 'typical' children and me? I'd have left the moment I saw myself naked on the computer screen.


First off, my post was not directed at you, as I will directly address a poster if I want to respond to them. I posted very generally. The first thing I said that was specific to your situation was that his actions crossed the line without a doubt. If I have to say it again, I will. Your husband's actions crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed and you have every right to feel violated in response to his actions. That's full stop. &#55357;&#57041; End of story. Period! In fact, his actions are most definitely prosecutable in probably most of the United States if that's where you live. That's not hyperbole, that's fact. He made a very grave mistake, I'm not sure he even comprehends the gravity of the position he has put himself in. He now has to face the consequences of his actions, which includes and primarily is your wrath, among others that may take place. 

The other comment I made about your specific situation was that he should most definitely wipe and destroy what he has done and get his own devise that is exclusively for his own use. From your description, this is about the only acceptable outcome at this point. Quite simply, when there is a significant difference in drive the options for the HD spouse are the accept it and suppress their drive, complain about it and likely cause more problems, or divorce. It doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else thinks about it, that's just the cold hard facts. A decent human being also knows and accepts that a person cannot magically create desire. It is an organic thing that can be stimulated though acts, but it has a baseline level. If a person doesn't have it, then they don't have it. A decent person does not demand, they can only hope to inspire. Past that? Nope, demanding gets a person nowhere. 

The only other thing I possibly said directed at you is that the spouse should have first right of refusal. If they refuse, then they get absolutely no say in the matter. Period. As long as there is no infidelity, then all bets are off. When people take vows, they are of exclusivity not celibacy. That's just another cold hard fact. 

Now, as for the rest of my post I spoke of generalities. That the two of you decided to go this direction is a decision that results in whatever the two of you make of it. In way to many cases, the husband is convinced to get the 2.5 kids and the big house on the corner with the white picket fence. I don't doubt that some men want that, but not even close to all. You know that "happy wife, happy life" BS that has been handed down generations? In way to many cases, it's a matter of a man giving in more every time something is asked of him. Keeping the peace is what it's called, and it's a paved path straight to hell. I hear a lot of people talk about partnership, but I see very little of those partnerships in action. Talk is cheap. 

In my opinion, every single couple should be forced to take pre-marriage classes. I'm not talking about a 2 hours class. I'm talking about a 30 day boot camp covering all aspects of marriage. The doesn't mean that just the big issues will be covered like having kids, (it can and has destroyed marriages) money, and sex. It should cover the little things like how to keep dating your partner and sacrifice, compromise, being your best even when you don't feel like it, goal setting as a couple, illness, dysfunctions, and death of loved ones and even spouses. At the very end the couple should be forced to read the top 100 worst stories here on TAM from both genders, just to make sure they want to actually move forward. 

As for my opinion that there should never be a stay at home anything? Get the government out of the marital home and bedroom and actually make the divorce complex equitable across the board and across the US and I'll consider changing my mind. 

Most of my post was directed at others opinions that I thought were BS. I personally hope the two of you find a way out of this situation, but I'm also realistic.

May you find peace.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

salparadise said:


> While I agree that the above are mitigating factors to some degree, objectively speaking, taping her having sex without her knowledge is pretty much indefensible. Given said mitigating factors, it's one of those "eye of the beholder" things... she can make as much hay out of it as suits her purpose. It seems as though the purpose here is to vilify him and claim the moral high ground, double down on resentment and cut off what little bit of sex there was in this marriage. She can use it as leverage to berate and castrate if she so chooses.
> 
> In a loving marriage where the couple adore each other and are primarily motivated to make it wonderful, it might be resolved with something as simple as "sweetheart, I'm not comfortable with this and I need you to promise to never do it again without asking first."
> 
> ...


How do you begin to forgive someone for betraying you? I feel it was as bad, if not worse, than cheating on me. I truly feel violated. Even if you can't understand that, it is how I feel. He's my best friend and has been for 30 years! In my bedroom, behind closed doors, is a safe place to do anything I choose to do with my partner. To tape me in my most intimate and private moments is unfathomable to me. He knows how shy I am and how unsure I am of my body; to have that immortalized forever on video makes me want to die. Had I not seen the recordings myself, I wouldn't believe he did it.

So I guess that's the question. In the least I need therapy alone to deal with this; but then once I'm not so damn angry and hurt, then what? Will I always remember this? He hasn't stopped apologizing, so I know he's sorry. And I don't want to make "him pay" the rest of our lives together. That's not fair to either of us. This really sucks.

I don't want a divorce. And not just because of the kids or my financial situation.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Steve1000 said:


> I think that one problem with this thread is that many men cannot relate to how awful this is for women. After I saw this thread, I asked three male friends how they would feel if they discovered that their wife secretly recorded having sex so that she could watch it later. They said that they would feel that while their wives should tell them first, they all felt that it would not be that big of a deal to them. Two of them added that they could only dream that their wives would want to do that.
> 
> Therefore we should not ignore one's perspective. What the husband did was wrong. At the same time, the husband maybe didn't think it was doing something terrible.
> 
> As for myself, personally I would much much much rather prefer that my wife secretly taped us having sex than to have an affair.


That's exactly it! I asked my husband what he would have done if I secretly taped us having sex and then watched it to masturbate. He was like "yes, please!" He would not have felt betrayed at all. But for me, I wish he would have just had an affair and not taped me. I wish for neither, obviously, but the taping is so much worse to me.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> They both violated each others privacy.


Actually, I didn't violate his privacy at all. My external hard drive crashed, when it came back up it said it was empty. I had 15 years of photos, videos, documents backed up on there. So, I told my husband and he said to research recovery programs on line, so I did and then I ran a disk recovery on it. And then Pandora's box was opened, and then all of this "deleted" porn and thus, my sex videos were on there. So no, I did not snoop in my own frickin computer. You are totally off point here, it's amazing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> That's exactly it! I asked my husband what he would have done if I secretly taped us having sex and then watched it to masturbate. He was like "yes, please!" He would not have felt betrayed at all. But for me, *I wish he would have just had an affair and not taped me.* I wish for neither, obviously, but the taping is so much worse to me.


What? How are the two remotely equivalent??!! *Having an affair means he would be in love with someone else. *

Do you feel the camera snatches the soul or something?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> That's exactly it! I asked my husband what he would have done if I secretly taped us having sex and then watched it to masturbate. He was like "yes, please!" He would not have felt betrayed at all. But for me, I wish he would have just had an affair and not taped me. I wish for neither, obviously, but the taping is so much worse to me.


I'm a guy, and honestly I would feel like the other guys, however I can completely empathize with how you feel. I wish I could think of a comparable example. Besides that it doesn't matter if he doesn't feel that way or not, he had no right to do it. The fact that they can't just makes me sad.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> Why? Bait and switch. The low drive spouse thing is epidemic here. I have no idea whats wrong with low drive men.But lets face it, many women seem to be high drive before marriage/kids and turn sexless after.
> 
> There is a biological reason a woman and man has sex when the woman can't conceive or gets to old to bear children. Even grandma can do it, thank God. Its simply to bind the man to his mate for life. Religiously or evolutionary the answer is the same.
> 
> ...


Where do I begin? First, I didn't violate anything with going on OUR computer. My hard drive crashed and I ran a disk recovery. That's where his "deleted" porn stash was recovered, along with the videos of me.

The only violation here is, he taped me without my consent. Wrong on every level there is. You're a man, and as I've been seeing on here, many men don't find this so terrible. However, I equate this to him having an affair, even worse. So that's my view on it. Picture your wife sleeping with someone else in your own bed daily, while you're at work. How would you feel? Well, that's how I feel with this.

Lastly, if you think sex is the be-all, end-all of a relationship...then I feel sorry for your wife. To me, sex is the cherry on top of life. It is not life. I've always had that view. If all you have going for you is sex sex sex; then when the sex is gone (old, sick, whatever) then what's left? There HAS to be more to life and relationships than sex and when the next time is you're gonna get it.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Edit out. No value


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Do you really feel that cheating on you would have been better than him wanting to re-watch both of you having sex?
> I don't understand the logic. You do understand that you are the focus of his sexual desire and that's why he finds regular porn boring (again, assuming he is not a pervert who would only keep this to himself). If he cheated on you, you could write the marriage off straight away because he would be 'off' you, probably for good.


Yes, because it's not the part of him wanting to watch us have sex that bothers me so much; we have a huge mirror in our room that we both look at sometimes while having sex. It's the setting up the secret nanny camera and recording us over several sessions; all covertly without me knowing. It's the creep factor. It's the not feeling safe with the one person who I only ever felt safe with. Sucks


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> .
> However, I equate this to him having an affair, even worse. So that's my view on it. Picture your wife sleeping with someone else in your own bed daily, while you're at work. How would you feel? Well, that's how I feel with this.


Nah, that's not the same. The equivalent would be if I found a tape of my wife getting off from nagging at me without my consent and without being able to leave the room, while I was in my sleep.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Yes, because it's not the part of him wanting to watch us have sex that bothers me so much; we have a huge mirror in our room that we both look at sometimes while having sex. It's the setting up the secret nanny camera and recording us over several sessions; all covertly without me knowing. It's the creep factor. It's the not feeling safe with the one person who I only ever felt safe with. Sucks


I understand that completely. And he shouldn't have done it. That's why you should talk to him and perhaps he can reassure you *WHY* he did what he did.
It's not an excuse but if you understand his intentions, you will perhaps stop regarding him as a creep and understand that having an affair is *not remotely the same thing as re-watching yourself having sex with your wife*.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> The filming was definitely wrong, but your comment was not misconstrued. Telling him if he wanted intimacy, he should divorce and go get it elsewhere, is worse than offering a hall pass. You devalued every need he had and told him his needs are worth nothing.
> 
> That was a horrible thing to say.


Not in my opinion. We were communicating and having sex regularly, just not to his satisfaction. I've always had a low sex drive, always. After kids, it went down, but not terribly. Once a week I think is workable. To him, it was the worse thing ever. Should I then "do it" after cleaning up vomit from my sick kid, just to serve my husband? Should I "do it" after 15 hours of working in the house, holding a baby all day, and all I want to do is sleep, just to serve my husband? Give me a break. And I was being fair to him. If I was not fulfilling him, I loved him enough to let him go so he could find the life he desired, because I couldn't give it to him. It's not fair to ask me to be this ready to go sex kitten; when in fact I had NEVER been that. Ever, even before children and all the other fun adult stuff. So thank you for turning this egregious act of taping me many times secretly, without my consent, into it's my fault because I didn't screw him enough.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

They are 2 separate issues. Your entire marriage isnt about the videos. Your opinion counts, but your approach is awfull. Continue your warfare if you must. As you felt sorry for the posters wife, we will return the favor.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Not in my opinion. We were communicating and having sex regularly, just not to his satisfaction. I've always had a low sex drive, always. After kids, it went down, but not terribly. Once a week I think is workable. To him, it was the worse thing ever. Should I then "do it" after cleaning up vomit from my sick kid, just to serve my husband? Should I "do it" after 15 hours of working in the house, holding a baby all day, and all I want to do is sleep, just to serve my husband? Give me a break. And I was being fair to him. If I was not fulfilling him, I loved him enough to let him go so he could find the life he desired, because I couldn't give it to him. It's not fair to ask me to be this ready to go sex kitten; when in fact I had NEVER been that. Ever, even before children and all the other fun adult stuff. So thank you for turning this egregious act of taping me many times secretly, without my consent, into it's my fault because I didn't screw him enough.


I didn't think this thread was about how much sex you are having but about the taping...
Just a thought: if my maths is correct, if you both had sex once a week and let him tape it, he could watch it 6 times a week on the other days and both you and him would be left perfectly satisfied. Instead, you want him to go and have an affair...? :scratchhead:


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> What? How are the two remotely equivalent??!! *Having an affair means he would be in love with someone else. *
> 
> Do you feel the camera snatches the soul or something?


They have nothing to do with each other. I'm comparing betrayals. He betrayed my trust by filming me in my most private, intimate moments with him. Without getting my permission, it's as bad as if he had an affair. That's what it feels like to me. Get it or not, it's how I feel.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

On the positive side: he seems to have deleted the videos...??


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> I didn't think this thread was about how much sex you are having but about the taping...
> Just a thought: if my maths is correct, if you both had sex once a week and let him tape it, he could watch it 6 times a week on the other days and both you and him would be left perfectly satisfied. Instead, you want him to go and have an affair...? :scratchhead:


I didn't tell him to go have an affair. I asked him if he wanted a divorce so that he could get the life he was wanting. To find the person who could fulfill his desires, because it obviously wasn't me. I couldn't keep up with his drive and it was ruining our relationship. I didn't want him to have an affair, then or now. My saying I wish he would have just had an affair is for comparison! I feel as betrayed as if he had an affair, when I found the tapes of my having sex. I'd obviously be devastated if he went outside the marriage, but honesty I could wrap my head around it. More so than he secretly taping me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> They have nothing to do with each other. I'm comparing betrayals. He betrayed my trust by filming me in my most private, intimate moments with him. Without getting my permission, it's as bad as if he had an affair. That's what it feels like to me. Get it or not, it's how I feel.


Yes but in those videos, *he* is also there during those intimate moments. In the case of the affair, *you* wouldn't be there at all. There are betrayals and there are betrayals. This was the former.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

OP

People are trying to give you insight into why your husband may have felt compelled to do what he did - not to justify it.

You can decide not to listen, but how will that promote fixing your marital issues?

Everything that happens in a marriage happens within a system, not in isolation. People make poor decisions for a lot of reasons. It benefits you both to understand those reasons. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> On the positive side: he seems to have deleted the videos...??


yes, he said he realized it was wrong and deleted them. Unfortunately, I guess nothing is ever really deleted!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I didn't tell him to go have an affair. I asked him if he wanted a divorce so that he could get the life he was wanting. To find the person who could fulfill his desires, because it obviously wasn't me. I couldn't keep up with his drive and it was ruining our relationship. I didn't want him to have an affair, then or now. My saying I wish he would have just had an affair is for comparison! I feel as betrayed as if he had an affair, when I found the tapes of my having sex. I'd obviously be devastated if he went outside the marriage, but honesty I could wrap my head around it. More so than he secretly taping me.


You can't wrap your head around the fact that he enjoys watching the act of making love to you and wants to relive it when he can't have sex with you? And it's easier to wrap your head around if he wanted to **** someone else instead?

You mean because it would be more straightforward to leave him?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I didn't tell him to go have an affair. I asked him if he wanted a divorce so that he could get the life he was wanting. To find the person who could fulfill his desires, because it obviously wasn't me. I couldn't keep up with his drive and it was ruining our relationship. I didn't want him to have an affair, then or now. My saying I wish he would have just had an affair is for comparison! I feel as betrayed as if he had an affair, when I found the tapes of my having sex. I'd obviously be devastated if he went outside the marriage, but honesty I could wrap my head around it. More so than he secretly taping me.


Do you in your most honest and introspective moments believe that this is a rational position to take?

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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Beyond, I'm sorry most men ( not all) view sex as the most important thing in life. Many are in or were in sexless marriages and still hold a lot of resentment. You are seeing this dichotomy between the sexes. I was shocked the first time I noticed it thread after thread after thread. 

I completely understand your position. For a private person and or less sexually adventurous person to be taped without consent is to be violated but then by someone you loved and opened up to trying things you might not have beencomfortable with. Wondering did he tape xxx? How many times did he watch it?

And special needs children have high divorce rates with parents. Not too many I've known does the dad fight for custody. 

I don't know if the men will understand that an affair ( first doesn't mean love) is a betrayal of trust the video tape is a betrayal of trust in the most intimate SPACE of your life. There's affairs then there's an affair where the sex is in the martial bed. There is a difference. 

Anyway. I just wanted to say once you go to therapy please come back and read lots of threads on TAM. You maybe lucky like me and married to the greatest guy on earth ( though...,) or he maybe like some of the guys here who view sex as everything supposedly that's the only way they feel emotionall connected to their wife. Us women normally feel connected by words and actions, conversations and shared experiences. 

Both sexes need to feel connected for a marriage to work. You need to find a way to connect with your spouse. With your daughter it wil be harder but make time for date night. Also if porn is making sex your comfortable with not enough you two may need to talk about this. Read about responsive desire you might be one of the women who are responsive. It's important to know that not everyone walks around horny. But my husband can bring out true desire if I give him 5-10 minutes.

Definitely go to counseling explore what Both your needs are. I'm certain for your children it will be better if you stay together.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> You can't wrap your head around the fact that he enjoys watching the act of making love to you and wants to relive it when he can't have sex with you? And it's easier to wrap your head around if he wanted to **** someone else instead?
> 
> You mean because it would be more straightforward to leave him?


I don't know. Honestly. There's just something creepy to me that when you thought you were alone (because he also recorded me getting dressed alone after a shower) or when you thought you were having a private moment just between two people, that now it's not private anymore. Once it's immortalized on a recording, is it ever really gone? The answer is no! Because he thought he erased it, and I found it...totally by happenstance. So, what if I would have brought my external drive to Best Buy for the geek squad to recover my cherished pictures, and those geeks found my videos!??! 

My point is, I don't know what I'm doing. I love him and am trying to understand what he did. I have to be not so angry, then maybe I can. I don't want to throw away what we have, because everything else is great. It's just this. I just really don't know if I can trust him again.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I don't know. Honestly. There's just something creepy to me that when you thought you were alone (because he also recorded me getting dressed alone after a shower) or when you thought you were having a private moment just between two people, that now it's not private anymore. Once it's immortalized on a recording, is it ever really gone? The answer is no! Because he thought he erased it, and I found it...totally by happenstance. So, what if I would have brought my external drive to Best Buy for the geek squad to recover my cherished pictures, and those geeks found my videos!??!
> 
> My point is, I don't know what I'm doing. I love him and am trying to understand what he did. I have to be not so angry, then maybe I can. I don't want to throw away what we have, because everything else is great. It's just this. I just really don't know if I can trust him again.



Yes of course. Take your time. This was obviously a big shock.
Talk to him and try to see things from his perspective *but also remain vigilant*. Sex is not 'everything' but it is an important component of a marriage (more than a cherry on the top. It's more like the base layer without which the cake will get all soggy and horrible). 

Some men do make it into too much of an obsession though and some women are naturally repulsed by it because they don't know how to deal with a high drive husband. And high drive husbands sometimes have their brains poisoned by too much sperm which make them do retarded things without thinking. There is a medical term for it: spermatoxiretardation syndrome. It's an extremely annoying and horrible affliction. And the only definitive cure is either castration or brain transplant: the scientists are split over which is the more effective treatment. I usually advocate both (in the same patient).


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Lastly, if you think sex is the be-all, end-all of a relationship...then I feel sorry for your wife. To me, sex is the cherry on top of life. It is not life. I've always had that view. If all you have going for you is sex sex sex; then when the sex is gone (old, sick, whatever) then what's left? There HAS to be more to life and relationships than sex and when the next time is you're gonna get it.


This makes me sad for you too though. I think you are missing out on something that could be really a big part of the bond you two could have. Sex for a man is way more then a cherry on top, for a lot of women too. I think most healthy relationships with good sex lives would say it is a primary part of the relationship, right up there with communication. Plus it could really help YOU be close to him or the next guy. Though at this point the water is way under the bridge.

You are going to have to trust us that that for men who are physical beings, one the best ways we feel closest and bond with our wives is through sex. When a "healthy" husband desires to have sex with his wife it's not because he wants to get his rock off, yes that is fun, but because it really makes him feel bonded and close with his wife. Let me try to explain.

Look you ever have someone maybe your husband share something emotional with you, or some deep personal thing that after it was over you felt like, wow he really loves me. I can't believe he did that. Or have a moment where he looked at you and you knew you were both thinking the same thing? Like kind of an secret club or something. You know the closeness you feel at that moment? That is what us men feel when our wives give themselves sexually to us. Especially if she is shy and lets herself go. It's like wow she REALLY loves me. She was willing to do that for me so I could have pleasure. Lots of guys would run though wall for wives like that. 

Some women get just as much pleasure too and those guys are lucky. But I think all women can get there but it takes both partners working at it, but you have to understand how profoundly important it is to your relationship to want to work on it. Yes it's very profound for men. In a lot of ways it's how we measure our wives love for us, it's how we measure ourselves.

That was just the first part of it though another thing you probably don't understand that I will try to explain is this. So I got this one time when I heard a women say the phrase, "my ovaries are burning" when she was holding a new born baby. I never felt that way but I could relate. What I got was that to her holding that baby made her want to love it and hold it, squeezes it's cheeks and stuff. Or when a women gets older and holds one it makes her very sad because a big part of her is now older and she won't have the same kind of feeling of holding her own baby again. She feels that missing instinctual thing right? That is a very primal feeling that women have for babies and children. Some men think kids are cute and stuff but they don't feel it in a primal way women do. This is different then protecting one's own kids by the way, I am not talking about that. I am talking about the need to hold and hug and squeeze. Genetically you are built to be that way because it makes you be willing to die for your kids right? That evolutionarily is the reason right? You can't even control it, you just feel it. It's there and it's primal and strong. 

Well this is how we feel attraction for women and even more so for our wives. Same thing, genetically built that way to make us willing to die for them. It's a primal feeling where we want to hold and touch and mate with our spouse. It's very much a burning primal thing. When we don't do it it makes us sad and unfortunately lots of men translate that sadness to anger. (different post) But you need to understand that's it. It's not, I need to have an orgasm. With a healthy man who truly loves his wife it's, I need to mate with my wife I desperately want to be close to her, in what for me is the most intimate way possible. I want to, I need to bond with her. So when your wife doesn't want to have sex with you it really feels like something is wrong that she doesn't want that with me, why doesn't she want to be close to me. I am a failure in a way because she doesn't want to be close to me. Does she love me? (Yes it feels this way).

I think this also explains why in general a sexual affair is harder for a man to get over then a women. This is really how we think about sex, we are genetically built to think that way and it is much more about bonding then it is about getting off. The touching the whole thing is a primal urge like the urge with the baby. 

This is profound stuff for a husband. Certainly NOT the cherry on top. It makes me sad to hear you say that. He may not in fact I am sure your husband has never be able to articulate it in that way. But I am damn sure he is feeling it. Porn is kind of like our romance novels in the sense that it is a synthetic way for us to have that feeling for a short period of time, but it's also empty and sad. I suspect just like reading romance novels are for the desperately romantic lady who has no romance in her life. 

Now I think all that is really moot as after what he did if I was you I wouldn't want to have sex with him either. However if you do want to find a way to forgive him maybe even years later and you do want to try to at least understand your sex issue in the marriage or at least why it is so important to him, then this lady does a fine job getting to the heart of it. Don't know if your are religious but you can ignore that and just read it from the perspective of what she says about how her husband thinks. She really tried to understand and it helped their marriage. 

Now knowing how a post with a bunch of generalities goes over, even though it's true I will add the standard disclaimer that this is not always true for everyone. Also I would like to add that I am talking about healthy people here. Lots of women like sex too and some crappy men just want to get their rocks off and yada yada yada...


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Beyond Betrayed;19386289
My point is said:


> Have you ever read/wrote something, then read it again and came up with a completely different point of view?
> 
> The more you write it becomes obvious that you really do love him and this issue is critical for you. You are who you are and no one should minimize what you feel is right and wrong. Apologies are probably warranted and we hope you don't divorce.
> 
> ...


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

anastasia6 said:


> Beyond, I'm sorry most men ( not all) view sex as the most important thing in life.


Most men DO NOT think it is the most important thing in life. That's a bunch of noise. Do we think sex is loving, fun, feels great and important to bonding in a relationship, yes we do. How is that wrong?

Oh and a lot of women think this way also. I am marrying one of them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Gosh, you are really trying so hard to pull out all the stops from your royal behind to make some kind of an insult or point, it's not very clear from this painful verbal diarrhoea. Well, good luck to you and your future endeavours sir. :yawn2:


You guys are going to be so banned when Ella reads this thread. :smthumbup:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Lets get one thing straight:

You do not get to tell people whether they can comment on a post or not. Interaction is expected on a forum. Personal insults, are not. 

Dragging other threads or other people into a completely unrelated thread serves no other purpose than to insinuate and inflame an already pointless interaction.

Instead of throwing hissy fits with every Mary and her dog on every other thread, you are free to make use of the ignore or block buttons or report a post if you felt it was insulting to you personally. 

Now I shall make good use of that blocking function myself.

Good day.




Windwalker said:


> No. No insults. No points.
> 
> Leave me the hell alone. Period!
> 
> ...







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

My god. Some of the replies in this thread.

At least your husband finds you attractive which is why he's recording you?

The hundreds of thousands of people over the years that have had their personal videos uploaded onto the net...

I guess getting cheated on really does a number to people's heads because that is not on.

Not on at all. Husband or not.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

@ Beyond Betrayed

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you are very justified in feeling betrayed and violated. I think any spouse would feel this way if you found out your spouse secretly taped you whether or not it was during sex or even just during the hum drum daily life chores we do around the house. 

This has nothing to do with the fact that he filmed them having sex, it has to do with the fact that he filmed her without her consent or knowledge which is essentially lying. Lying to your spouse never helps a marriage and will only cause distrust and hurt in a marriage. I feel her husband has a problem with porn or a sex addiction that he would cross the line with his wife’s privacy and feelings to feed his sexual needs. If how we feed our desires are hurting the people around us it is a problem and can be considered an unhealthy addiction. He knew what he was doing would upset his wife, yet he did it anyway. Shame on him for that...


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

I do not want to scare you but there are some websites that have a “pay to play” model requiring new members wanting to access their site, to provide new images, videos, etc. These sites are “dark websites” and often contain illegal imagery and are accessed via encrypted browsers...bringing in a “computer geek” maybe a good idea. Be aware that there could be another computer or hard drive you are unaware of...be aware that you may find much more than you ever wanted to know about your husband...the geek you hire, if you do,should be familiar with the dark web, Virtual Private Networks, be able to understand I.P. addresses and recovering deleted files. Good luck...hope I’m just being over cautious...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> We've been married for 25 years and have 4 children. Our marriage has been good for the most part. We've had our ups and downs, but nothing serious. My husband's sex drive has always been very high and mine, average. Before kids he wanted it 7-8 times a week, and for me 2-3 at most. But over the years of kids, responsibilities, etc... my sex drive decreased, but his did not. I am happy with once a week. He seemed more interested in quantity over quality. He would also make jabs at me, like after we'd make love, he'd say 'yeah, well when's the last time we did it' or 'you could have at least given me oral'. So that lead to a lot of resentment on both sides. I told him I can't live like this, feeling like no matter what I do, or how often, it's not enough. I told him (and not in anger, out of respect to both of us) to find someone who will make him happy and sexually fulfilled, because it's obviously not me. But he wanted to stay.
> 
> Fast forward a few years & kids later, things seemed better. He seemed satisfied with once a week, sometimes twice if the stars aligned 😉 we didn't bicker at all about it. Long story short (that I'll spare you) I discovered thousands of deleted pornography pictures and hundreds of videos. I really didn't care, I don't find anything wrong with porn. Maybe the sheer about bothered me a bit.
> 
> ...


My advice would be straightforward and to the point.

Your anger is understandable in the view of the fact that your husband filmed your most intimate moments without your consent [betrayal of sorts]. I get the impression that your husband's high sex-drive coupled with porn addiction, drove him to this end; certainly in the wrong _but_ his testosterone levels got the better of his thinking ability.

You may need to vent as much as possible but *do not* kill your marriage in sheer anger. You may withhold intimacy from your husband for a while until you are in a better frame of mind (he needs to get the message).

I believe that your marriage needs _rebuilding_ because there are some underlying issues which both of you need to sort out.

*You:-*

1. Recall the best moments of your marriage (and good qualities of your husband in general). Create a single folder of relevant pictures and videos which capture the best moments of your marriage [if you have not] and go through them. They will soothe your anger to an extent.

2. Seek _marriage counseling_. For starters: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVn8LG1-PN9PG59IJlzpfGw

You have the option to pursue a more fulfilling marriage counseling experience on your own.

3. Seek professional assistance in uplifting your libido with safest options. For starters: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...ive-in-women/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20374561

4. Confiscate the 'storage device' in which records of your intimate/private moments are stored and keep it in a private locker at home [if you haven't already]. 

You can choose to erase such data as well, if the 'storage device' in question is a PC hard drive. FYI: https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-wipe-a-hard-drive-2624527

Seek professional assistance otherwise. Even the content which is hosted online in a source can be taken down on the grounds of _copyright_.

5. Endgoal should be _rebuilding marriage_ in the aftermath of a betrayal and forgiving your husband.

*Your husband:-*

1. Open-book behavior [for you]; no _ifs_ and _buts_ over this matter anymore.

Time for him to do his best to facilitate your healing process.

2. Need to address his porn addiction [if he hasn't already]. For starters: https://www.projectknow.com/research/porn-addiction/?utm_term=p_addiction

3. Endgoal should be _regaining your trust_.

---

People are quick to advice separation/divorce on the web but few have what it takes to make their marriage work if something goes wrong in it.

Marriage-related issues cannot be dealt with 'politically correct' philosophy in mind and practice, Feminist indoctrination notwithstanding. People are NOT perfect in their behavior in reality. You have to come to terms with the imperfections/judgmental errors of your partner at some point and learn to forgive, provided that your partner is willing to address your concerns.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I don't know. Honestly. There's just something creepy to me that when you thought you were alone (because he also recorded me getting dressed alone after a shower) or when you thought you were having a private moment just between two people, that now it's not private anymore. Once it's immortalized on a recording, is it ever really gone? The answer is no! Because he thought he erased it, and I found it...totally by happenstance. So, what if I would have brought my external drive to Best Buy for the geek squad to recover my cherished pictures, and those geeks found my videos!??!
> 
> My point is, I don't know what I'm doing. I love him and am trying to understand what he did. I have to be not so angry, then maybe I can. I don't want to throw away what we have, because everything else is great. It's just this. I just really don't know if I can trust him again.


This is still pretty new for you. It will take some time for your feelings to shake out when the shock and horror wears off. You don't need to decide anything right away. One thing you may want to consider is holding off on intimacy with him because you don't want to wind up feeling even more used than you do now. That would lead to resentment.

Some posters don't seem to understand that what you view as loving acts between a man and a wife, your husband views as just sex and he felt entitled to use you for his gratification. He totally disrespected you as a human being. A side effect of his porn viewing, IMO.

You know what you feel and don't have to give two hoots what others think you 'should' be feeling or how you 'should' view the situation. I'm sure they don't mean to minimize your feelings; but, that is the result.

Perhaps your husband can get some individual counseling to help him understand why he thought he was entitled to disrespect you. Good luck.

eta: This thread is proving to be educational for some members.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed...I'm sorry this has happened to you and further am sorry that some posters are challenging you on your feelings. You have every right to feel how you feel, and your husband knew you would feel this way. Hopefully he also understands how you now don't feel complete trust and are a little worried what he has done with the videos or what else he may have filmed without your knowledge.

I have no problem with taking sexy videos and pics with a lover....but would be horrified if he did this without my consent and with a hidden cam. That would freak me the hell out.

Honestly, with the last 2 men I've been in LTRs with, THEY would also be freaked the hell out if I secretly taped us or him! They would wonder what was wrong with me that I would do something so clandestine. 

So please understand, these men who are saying they would be flattered by being secretly taped do not represent most men. These men are skewed because they don't feel attractive to their wives and they think feeling sexual attraction would be the reason a woman would tape them. But most likely, anyone who tapes someone without their knowledge is doing it for reasons that are far beyond just wanting to see how attractive they are. This falls into a voyeur category which is something different and could indicate that other women have been filmed without their knowledge.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

sokillme said:


> This makes me sad for you too though. I think you are missing out on something that could be really a big part of the bond you two could have. Sex for a man is way more then a cherry on top, for a lot of women too. I think most healthy relationships with good sex lives would say it is a primary part of the relationship, right up there with communication. Plus it could really help YOU be close to him or the next guy. Though at this point the water is way under the bridge.
> 
> You are going to have to trust us that that for men who are physical beings, one the best ways we feel closest and bond with our wives is through sex. When a "healthy" husband desires to have sex with his wife it's not because he wants to get his rock off, yes that is fun, but because it really makes him feel bonded and close with his wife. Let me try to explain.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's perspective. Thank you! THIS is what I'm looking for. I need to wrap my head around his motivations and where he was coming from and you did help me a bit. I still don't understand it, but maybe in time I will. It still doesn't make what he did right, but it helps to know where his mind was at.

For me, how I feel about what I look like and how shy I am (even with someone I've been with for 30 years) is why I feel so hurt. To trust him enough to "let go" and do something that maybe I'm not 100% comfortable with, just so things don't get stale or boring; then he goes and does this. That's the trust part. I trusted him 100%. With everything. If I'd have gone home with some random guy from a bar and had sex, then found out he secretly taped us...I'd be super pissed and probably have him arrested  BUT, I wouldn't be hurt. This random guy has no allegiance to me, this random guy didn't swear to protect and honor me. That's where I'm coming from. And it really sucks!


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

PDXGuardsman said:


> I do not want to scare you but there are some websites that have a “pay to play” model requiring new members wanting to access their site, to provide new images, videos, etc. These sites are “dark websites” and often contain illegal imagery and are accessed via encrypted browsers...bringing in a “computer geek” maybe a good idea. Be aware that there could be another computer or hard drive you are unaware of...be aware that you may find much more than you ever wanted to know about your husband...the geek you hire, if you do,should be familiar with the dark web, Virtual Private Networks, be able to understand I.P. addresses and recovering deleted files. Good luck...hope I’m just being over cautious...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. This did cross my mind. When he first told me about these recordings, I did some research and found that what he did is illegal and I could press charges. Would I? No, unless he uploaded them to the internet. I told him I was going to hire a private investigator to look for my videos, and if he tells me now where they are, we can work on getting them taken down and start to rebuild our relationship. But if I find them on my own, I will call the police and tell his parents what he did (which would be THE WORST thing to him). He swore that he never did that, it was just for him.

I've actually gone to a few porn sites that he's mentioned he likes and looked through hundreds of thumbnails of amateur/hidden camera sections. I've seen more porn this past week than I have in my entire life  Too bad because I use to enjoy an occasional dirty movie, but now I'm so numb to it.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> My advice would be straightforward and to the point.
> 
> Your anger is understandable in the view of the fact that your husband filmed your most intimate moments without your consent [betrayal of sorts]. I get the impression that your husband's high sex-drive coupled with porn addiction, drove him to this end; certainly in the wrong _but_ his testosterone levels got the better of his thinking ability.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I guess that's why I posted here, I need to find a way to understand this. I need viewpoints from everywhere. And some of your suggestions are exactly what I need to do. And I will!

My first reaction was to kick him out. But, it's not just about me; we have 4 kids that would be devastated if we divorced. I love him and have since I was 16, I've been with him more than 1/2 my life. I think that's why I'm so hurt over this. The one person I loved & trusted the most, betrayed me in my most intimate & private moments. Really sucks.

You're right, I need to sort out my stuff. I'm definitely going to seek counseling alone at first, then see where my head is at. I don't want to string him along. And I don't want him "to pay" for this the rest of our relationship, that's not fair to either of us. So I have to eventually decide if he can rebuild my blind trust in him again; if not, I can't stay


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you. This did cross my mind. When he first told me about these recordings, I did some research and found that what he did is illegal and I could press charges. Would I? No, unless he uploaded them to the internet. I told him I was going to hire a private investigator to look for my videos, and if he tells me now where they are, we can work on getting them taken down and start to rebuild our relationship. But if I find them on my own, I will call the police and tell his parents what he did (which would be THE WORST thing to him). He swore that he never did that, it was just for him.
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually gone to a few porn sites that he's mentioned he likes and looked through hundreds of thumbnails of amateur/hidden camera sections. I've seen more porn this past week than I have in my entire life  Too bad because I use to enjoy an occasional dirty movie, but now I'm so numb to it.




I’m sorry that you are going through this...It’s definitely a betrayal of trust on many levels. The hard part is knowing whether your husband shared the videos. There are so many ways he could do it. From putting it on a flash (thumb) drive, CD/DVD, email or he could have uploaded them to a cloud server like drop box or many other servers and shared them with “friends.” A reputable computer forensics company can investigate and give you piece of mind...assuming you have all his hard drives and flash drives...google and Bing and Firefox can help you remove items if you find them. Remember you are the victim here. It’s up to him to re-establish trust. He doesn’t get to decide when you should trust him again. That is up to you. What I will say is that if he is in full fledged panic mode and he is smart...he will physically destroy all the hard drives and make them disappear. So if your intention is to hire an investigator...it is best for you to remain cool and keep the image up that everything is ok so he doesn’t make drastic moves to clean up the evidence. 


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I asked him why didn't he ask me first, and he actually said "because I'd knew you'd say no". He also said that at the time he did the recordings, he put his needs and desires above what he knew was right. So he does get that what he did was wrong, on so many levels.


I would ask you to consider that his actions could be born of desperation. Your husband is starving. sokillme explained why sex is so important to men, so I hope you're beginning to grasp exactly how he's feeling by being rejected, and only being intimate once a week. I know you have responsibilities, so please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying you're being lazy. But you having good reason doesn't change how your actions are making your husband feel. You're getting the emotional gratification and fulfillment you desperately need from your children, while your husband is left out in the cold. He needs you. 



Beyond Betrayed said:


> How do you begin to forgive someone for betraying you? I feel it was as bad, if not worse, than cheating on me. I truly feel violated. Even if you can't understand that, it is how I feel. He's my best friend and has been for 30 years! In my bedroom, behind closed doors, is a safe place to do anything I choose to do with my partner. To tape me in my most intimate and private moments is unfathomable to me. He knows how shy I am and how unsure I am of my body; to have that immortalized forever on video makes me want to die. Had I not seen the recordings myself, I wouldn't believe he did it.
> 
> So I guess that's the question. In the least I need therapy alone to deal with this; but then once I'm not so damn angry and hurt, then what? Will I always remember this? He hasn't stopped apologizing, so I know he's sorry. And I don't want to make "him pay" the rest of our lives together. That's not fair to either of us. This really sucks.
> 
> I don't want a divorce. And not just because of the kids or my financial situation.


As far as we know, the private moments you shared with him are still private moments you shared only with him. No 3rd party was brought in as a violation of the special bond you share. Please try to see that your husband is desperately trying to feel, and be, closer to you. The videos allowed him to "be" with you, when you wouldn't allow him to be. 



Beyond Betrayed said:


> Lastly, if you think sex is the be-all, end-all of a relationship...then I feel sorry for your wife. To me, sex is the cherry on top of life. It is not life. I've always had that view. If all you have going for you is sex sex sex; then when the sex is gone (old, sick, whatever) then what's left? There HAS to be more to life and relationships than sex and when the next time is you're gonna get it.


As sokillme already said, hearing you say this makes me feel very bad for your husband. If someone came and took away your children, and only let you see them once a week, how would you feel? After years of yearning for your children, would you consider setting up hidden cameras so you could see them more often?


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

BioFury said:


> I would ask you to consider that his actions could be born of desperation. Your husband is starving. sokillme explained why sex is so important to men, so I hope you're beginning to grasp exactly how he's feeling by being rejected, and only being intimate once a week. I know you have responsibilities, so please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying you're being lazy. But you having good reason doesn't change how your actions are making your husband feel. You're getting the emotional gratification and fulfillment you desperately need from your children, while your husband is left out in the cold. He needs you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How do you know a third party wasn’t involved? Because the husband who took the videos without his wife’s permission said so?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

PDXGuardsman said:


> How do you know a third party wasn’t involved? Because the husband who took the videos without his wife’s permission said so?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. Based on her description of her husband, he's not a pervert, he's just a normal guy.

Assuming the worst isn't going to do her situation any good. He said he didn't, and she looked for hours (apparently) and didn't see anything. And I would presume that she would look at their internet history and check those sites first, look at the viewed videos and see if they're hers, etc. Because if he did upload them, then there would be a bread trail, and he'd most certainly be looking at said videos to get his rocks off on other people's comments - if that was indeed what he was into. But based on the evidence at this point, I don't think it is.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you! I guess that's why I posted here, I need to find a way to understand this. I need viewpoints from everywhere. And some of your suggestions are exactly what I need to do. And I will!
> 
> My first reaction was to kick him out. But, it's not just about me; we have 4 kids that would be devastated if we divorced. I love him and have since I was 16, I've been with him more than 1/2 my life. I think that's why I'm so hurt over this. The one person I loved & trusted the most, betrayed me in my most intimate & private moments. Really sucks.
> 
> You're right, I need to sort out my stuff. I'm definitely going to seek counseling alone at first, then see where my head is at. I don't want to string him along. And I don't want him "to pay" for this the rest of our relationship, that's not fair to either of us. So I have to eventually decide if he can rebuild my blind trust in him again; if not, I can't stay


You're welcome.

I see positivity in there [your views] which is really good. 

Rebuilding _blind_ trust might not be possible at this juncture and/or anytime soon; what your husband can do is to adopt an 'open-book lifestyle' for YOU in order to give you peace of mind and nudge you towards the direction of reconciliation. Your husband needs to see a sex therapist as well; push him to this end.

Your husband might not have hosted anything on the web (he won't be lying at this stage if he is really serious about regaining your trust) but you can check everything you want to until you feel satiated [in-front of your husband preferably so he can see with his own eyes the consequences of his actions]. In case you do find something online, you can claim copyright over it (and take it down) but keep your calm; you might need professional advice in this regard but no need to explain your motives to a professional (just say that you are no longer comfortable in having your clips on the web). 

I hope that you two are able to reconcile and establish a more fulfilling (and transparent) relationship in the long-term. The 'trust but verify' kind of arrangement can also work. 

Best of luck (and keep us informed).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you. This did cross my mind. When he first told me about these recordings, I did some research and found that what he did is illegal and I could press charges. Would I? No, unless he uploaded them to the internet. I told him I was going to hire a private investigator to look for my videos, and if he tells me now where they are, we can work on getting them taken down and start to rebuild our relationship. But if I find them on my own, I will call the police and tell his parents what he did (which would be THE WORST thing to him). He swore that he never did that, it was just for him.
> 
> I've actually gone to a few porn sites that he's mentioned he likes and looked through hundreds of thumbnails of amateur/hidden camera sections. I've seen more porn this past week than I have in my entire life  Too bad because I use to enjoy an occasional dirty movie, *but now I'm so numb to it.*


And now you understand his intention of why he taped you: if he's in any way 'normal' (and granted, taping you without your knowledge is already not very normal), he probably finds you extremely attractive/arousing but cannot always have sex with you so he thought he would tape a nice moment to remember you by. It's the same idea as taking a photograph for a memento. Except this one is for his sperm bank, if that makes sense. He probably finds porn extremely boring (as most of men do). I am saying this so you perhaps understand what went on in his head (from a man). But you know him best, if you think that he's likely to be some sort of sex crazed maniac who is profiting off of you somehow, you would have a duty to report him to the police. But from your descriptions, it seems less and less likely to me, despite the hype that some posters made at the beginning. I think you do need to give it some time and perhaps even take some time apart, if you need to.

Thinking about it, one has to be quite careful with taking photographs without permission in general, not just when it comes to porn. Even taking random people on the streets for example can be against the law, if it is done without the person's permission.


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

BioFury said:


> Yes. Based on her description of her husband, he's not a pervert, he's just a normal guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming the worst isn't going to do her situation any good. He said he didn't, and she looked for hours (apparently) and didn't see anything. And I would presume that she would look at their internet history and check those sites first, look at the viewed videos and see if they're hers, etc. Because if he did upload them, then there would be a bread trail, and he'd most certainly be looking at said videos to get his rocks off on other people's comments - if that was indeed what he was into. But based on the evidence at this point, I don't think it is.




The problem as I see it, this is a gross violation of trust...the husband threw his credibility out the door by taking videos of his wife in very comprising situations without her permission. I don’t care who you are or where you are from...this is NOT okay or some sign that her husband is cute or somehow okay because he’s watching naked videos of his wife...the perversion lies in the dishonesty. That’s why doing this is illegal. Healthy couples talk and get each other’s permission before doing these sorts of things. Now the bigger question is “how big is the problem?” Is this just the tip of the iceberg or is it indeed a misstep localized to the home? The wife has to decide how far she is willing to go to get her piece of mind back. The husband lost his say in this. After all it wasn’t his trust that was violated. 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you. This did cross my mind. When he first told me about these recordings, I did some research and found that what he did is illegal and I could press charges. Would I? No, unless he uploaded them to the internet. I told him I was going to hire a private investigator to look for my videos, and if he tells me now where they are, we can work on getting them taken down and start to rebuild our relationship. But if I find them on my own, I will call the police and tell his parents what he did (which would be THE WORST thing to him). He swore that he never did that, it was just for him.
> 
> I've actually gone to a few porn sites that he's mentioned he likes and looked through hundreds of thumbnails of amateur/hidden camera sections. I've seen more porn this past week than I have in my entire life  Too bad because I use to enjoy an occasional dirty movie, but now I'm so numb to it.


PS: What's also interesting (if you can call it that) is that I suspect a lot of women would actually find it MUCH worse if their husband was a porn addict, instead of wanting to re-watch himself and his wife having sex. I see that he did both however I think it is quite likely that he got really bored with porn and actually wants you (at least that would be the case with me. As in, wanting my wife 10x over any porn, any time, any day).

So in terms of a marriage succeeding, I would have thought that a scenario where the man prefers watching their own 'home-made porn' with wife has a much higher chance of succeeding than a scenario where the husband is addicted to online porn. Many women (especially on TAM) equate their husbands watching porn as a form of infidelity, which I guess you don't.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> PS: What's also interesting (if you can call it that) is that I suspect a lot of women would actually find it MUCH worse if their husband was a porn addict, instead of wanting to re-watch himself and his wife having sex. I see that he did both however I think it is quite likely that he got really bored with porn and actually wants you (at least that would be the case with me. As in, wanting my wife 10x over any porn, any time, any day).
> 
> So in terms of a marriage succeeding, I would have thought that a scenario where the man prefers watching their own 'home-made porn' with wife has a much higher chance of succeeding than a scenario where the husband is addicted to online porn. Many women (especially on TAM) equate their husbands watching porn as a form of infidelity, which I guess you don't.


Yeah, I guess that's part of the problem. In finding his porn stash, there were thousands (and I mean more than 11k) images on the "deleted" hard drive of porn. Not to mention hundreds of videos. He said these were all from years ago, from back in the day when you had to download a folder to view pics & videos. Because, of course now there's PornHub, Twitter (who knew?), etc... that you don't have to download anything anymore. I never snooped through his files, looked at his browser history, I didn't care. I think porn is fine, and I don't feel like he was cheating on me by watching it. I guess it's just the sheer amount that was there that bothers me. Like is that ALL he ever thought about? Is he sneaking off at work to look at it? I mean, who has that kind of time? I guess if you're addicted, you find the time....just like with anything else.

He swears he's not addicted to sex or porn and doesn't need help in that area. His drive has diminished the last year or two, so he says. I guess that comes with age? But he's open to marriage counseling. I'm not yet. I'm going to work on me and then decide what's next.

I really appreciate you giving your perspective. It does help.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BioFury said:


> I would ask you to consider that his actions could be born of desperation. Your husband is starving. sokillme explained why sex is so important to men, so I hope you're beginning to grasp exactly how he's feeling by being rejected, and only being intimate once a week. I know you have responsibilities, so please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying you're being lazy. But you having good reason doesn't change how your actions are making your husband feel. You're getting the emotional gratification and fulfillment you desperately need from your children, while your husband is left out in the cold. He needs you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get your point, but totally not the same thing. If I set up cameras to check on my kids, that's so far off from violating someone's privacy by taping them having sex. Especially when it's done by the one person who swore to honor and protect you. No matter his intentions, it was wrong. But he knows that, or at least that's what he says. He does say he misses our friendship more than anything and doesn't care if it takes me a year to decide what I want...he wants to wait, no matter what I decide. So I guess there's that. Now the problem is deciding.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Have you told your husband about your seeking advice here? If the answer is no, where on the spectrum of betraying the trust in the sanctity of the bedroom would you place spelling out you sex life in gory detail to a random group of Internet users?

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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I get your point, but totally not the same thing. If I set up cameras to check on my kids, that's so far off from violating someone's privacy by taping them having sex. Especially when it's done by the one person who swore to honor and protect you. No matter his intentions, it was wrong. But he knows that, or at least that's what he says. He does say he misses our friendship more than anything and doesn't care if it takes me a year to decide what I want...he wants to wait, no matter what I decide. So I guess there's that. Now the problem is deciding.


No, they're both pretty much the same. He recorded you without your knowledge, and you would be recording them without their knowledge. The perceived "multiplier" of him recording you have sex is negated by the fact that he's your husband, has sex with you, and sees you naked anyway - and you're fine with it. He therefore did not invade your privacy by seeing you naked, or seeing you have sex - since you're ok with those things in and of themselves. The only _invasion_, would be that he recorded you without your permission or knowledge - which is what you would be doing to your kids. Do you see my point?

In any case, the purpose of the comparison was not for them to be perfectly identical. It was to put you in his shoes, understand the pain he is in, and possibly realize that you might do the same thing if you were experiencing the same kind of heartache.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BioFury said:


> Yes. Based on her description of her husband, he's not a pervert, he's just a normal guy.
> 
> Assuming the worst isn't going to do her situation any good. He said he didn't, and she looked for hours (apparently) and didn't see anything. And I would presume that she would look at their internet history and check those sites first, look at the viewed videos and see if they're hers, etc. Because if he did upload them, then there would be a bread trail, and he'd most certainly be looking at said videos to get his rocks off on other people's comments - if that was indeed what he was into. But based on the evidence at this point, I don't think it is.


Have you not heard of trickle truth? Seems if the OP had posted this in the infidelity section most people would be advising her that she doesn't know the full story yet and to proceed with extreme caution until she does. Perhaps a poly would be best in this situation.

If someone betrays your trust in a completely selfish way and knows they are risking losing you if you find out, and you catch them at this act without them confessing it first, what reason would you have to believe they are telling the full truth? They clearly had not intended you to know the truth, so their opinion of what truth you need to know is already way off base.


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

Cletus said:


> Have you told your husband about your seeking advice here? If the answer is no, where on the spectrum of betraying the trust in the sanctity of the bedroom would you place spelling out you sex life in gory detail to a random group of Internet users?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk




That’s a weird question considering 1). She and her husband are anonymous. 2). She hasn’t detailed any graphic description of her sex life other than she found out a) her husband has thousands of files of porn on their computer which she indicated she is okay with and b) there are images and videos of her having sex with her husband and videos and images of her undressing...all taken according to her without her permission. Which, oh by the way, is a criminal act in many jurisdictions. 
3). This is embarrassing at the least and I’m sure that she feels much better discussing her situation in an anonymous forum about sex and marriage, rather than talking about it in her church group! 



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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Have you told your husband about your seeking advice here? If the answer is no, where on the spectrum of betraying the trust in the sanctity of the bedroom would you place spelling out you sex life in gory detail to a random group of Internet users?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


I was going to suggest the OP invite him here. In their case it might help them work through this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BioFury said:


> No, they're both pretty much the same. He recorded you without your knowledge, and you would be recording them without their knowledge. The perceived "multiplier" of him recording you have sex is negated by the fact that he's your husband, has sex with you, and sees you naked anyway - and you're fine with it. He therefore did not invade your privacy by seeing you naked, or seeing you have sex - since you're ok with those things in and of themselves. The only _invasion_, would be that he recorded you without your permission or knowledge - which is what you would be doing to your kids. Do you see my point?


No it's not the same at all. But neither my opinion nor yours matters. She is entitled to feel how she feels. Hearing other opinions may help her and she has stated that. But telling her how to feel is pointless. It didn't happen to you and you aren't her.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

OP,

Food for thought. I don't know how long that particular hard drive has been around, but I know I have some old hard drives from when my wife and I first got together. That's over 20 years ago.

Recovery software may be showing the entire history of everything that has ever been on that hard drive. That the software is showing all these files on there may make the sheer amount worse than the situation really is. The thing that makes me point this out to you is the fact that you said he told you that some of it is really old and that files had to be downloaded by folders. This is newsgroup message board type stuff and was around long before the advent of modern easy access porn.

Is the hard drive a modern portable type or is it a old computer hard drive put into a portable case. Not that, that particular fact makes much difference because thing are easily transferred between drives, but it does make me curious.

In the old days that how things were shared back before modern commercial porn sites. This goes for many things that were traded on the newsgroups, not just porn. In my mind the porn and the videos are to separate issues. The other thing that bothers me some is that if the videos are old and he did in fact share them to newsgroups, then you are dealing with a totally different animal than that of just throwing a few videos on the web. It would also imply a level of intent nothing like that of throwing a few videos on the web simply because he knows the scale and scope of the newsgroups. 

How old are the videos of you? You mentioned a nanny cam. That indicates to me that the videos of you were fairly recent.

Just thoughts from a semi-retired self taught computer nut.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> No it's not the same at all.


Your, or her, _perception _of them is certainly different, but that doesn't mean that they are. I logically demonstrated why they are roughly comparable. But the purpose was not for them to be perfectly matched. The purpose, was for her to understand his pain, and realize that she would go to extraordinary lengths to see her children, in the same way he is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to see her.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Have you told your husband about your seeking advice here? If the answer is no, where on the spectrum of betraying the trust in the sanctity of the bedroom would you place spelling out you sex life in gory detail to a random group of Internet users?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


I did actually. He begged me not to tell anyone, that he is so embarrassed by what he did. I told him I need somewhere/somehow to get this out. And honestly, I have no one (IRL) that I want to tell this to. I'm beyond embarrassed, probably more than he is. So anonymously is the only outlet I have. He wasn't happy that I wanted to do this, even though it's anonymous, but he didn't ask me not to; he knows I have to deal with this on my own, especially if there's any hope for us. BTW, he was just asking me what feedback I was getting. 

So, no, I did not dishonor my husband and betray his trust. He did that to me! But thanks for trying to make this about how my poor husband would be upset that I confided in strangers.


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## PDXGuardsman (Nov 18, 2017)

Are people really trying to justify the husband’s actions? Doesn’t anyone think that the time for counseling was before he started secretly video recording his wife? I get that forgiveness is important in any relationship, as is trust. What could the husband do that would satisfy the breach of trust he caused? Only the wife could answer this. I’m curious how the wife would answer this question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BioFury said:


> No, they're both pretty much the same. He recorded you without your knowledge, and you would be recording them without their knowledge. The perceived "multiplier" of him recording you have sex is negated by the fact that he's your husband, has sex with you, and sees you naked anyway - and you're fine with it. He therefore did not invade your privacy by seeing you naked, or seeing you have sex - since you're ok with those things in and of themselves. The only _invasion_, would be that he recorded you without your permission or knowledge - which is what you would be doing to your kids. Do you see my point?
> 
> In any case, the purpose of the comparison was not for them to be perfectly identical. It was to put you in his shoes, understand the pain he is in, and possibly realize that you might do the same thing if you were experiencing the same kind of heartache.


I get the point, I do. But here's devils advocate.... say for instance, I've had sex with my husband 10,000 times in our life together. Then one night I say no, and then he forces himself on me. Wouldn't that be rape? Even though I consented 10,000 times before; if I say no, it's no. So, to your point, while well taken to get maybe what he was thinking, is not the same thing. Just because I have sex with him and he sees me naked all the time, does NOT give him the right to video tape me WITHOUT my consent. End of discussion on that point. You will NEVER persuade me to think otherwise, ever. This will never be an okay thing that he did. Can I get over it, past it? I hope so. But I don't know


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

PDXGuardsman said:


> Are people really trying to justify the husband’s actions? Doesn’t anyone think that the time for counseling was before he started secretly video recording his wife? I get that forgiveness is important in any relationship, as is trust. What could the husband do that would satisfy the breach of trust he caused? Only the wife could answer this. I’m curious how the wife would answer this question.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the problem. This is still so new & fresh that I don't know. I'm hoping with therapy that I can come to that answer. It really sucks. Because I really don't know if there is anything he can do or say


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I did actually. He begged me not to tell anyone, that he is so embarrassed by what he did. I told him I need somewhere/somehow to get this out. And honestly, I have no one (IRL) that I want to tell this to. I'm beyond embarrassed, probably more than he is. So anonymously is the only outlet I have. He wasn't happy that I wanted to do this, even though it's anonymous, but he didn't ask me not to; he knows I have to deal with this on my own, especially if there's any hope for us. BTW, he was just asking me what feedback I was getting.
> 
> So, no, I did not dishonor my husband and betray his trust. He did that to me! But thanks for trying to make this about how my poor husband would be upset that I confided in strangers.


I hope you two work it out.

It is very obvious he loves and desires you but went a little nuts with his sex drive not being taken care of.

I have come close to doing what your husband did but haven't crossed that line.

I masturbate 2-3x a day even if we have sex. Taking video of us would help me take care of myself and she would still be somewhat involved and my focus.

I could probably talk her into it though and I am probably more of a communicator than your husband.

I hope you take it a little easy on him and work through this.

He needs more sex. He wants you. He took videos of you for his own pleasure and didn't cheat. He did it without your permission which is bad.

I would also say your views on sexuality and your own self image are also bad and unhealthy.

Working through this will mean taking a closer look at yourself as well. Him sneaking videos was undeniably a bad choice but if your marriage is to improve and become healthier, you will need to change and adapt as well.

I am currently fighting depression partially brought on by a diminished sex life. It is a real issue and should not be overlooked in your journey to get through this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BioFury said:


> Your, or her, _perception _of them is certainly different, but that doesn't mean that they are. I logically demonstrated why they are roughly comparable. But the purpose was not for them to be perfectly matched. The purpose, was for her to understand his pain, and realize that she would go to extraordinary lengths to see her children, in the same way he is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to see her.


If I assume he was sex starved and lonely for his wife, I do actually understand his pain. I even understand his actions and I don't think they were that heinous (if they were never shared) in the grand scheme of things. But that point is moot with regard to the OP's feelings. His pain is something she is learning to understand, but her pain is something you are pushing against, making her feel even worse. It isn't helpful.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> If I assume he was sex starved and lonely for his wife, I do actually understand his pain. I even understand his actions and I don't think they were that heinous (if they were never shared) in the grand scheme of things. But that point is moot with regard to the OP's feelings. His pain is something she is learning to understand, *but her pain is something you are pushing against, making her feel even worse.* It isn't helpful.


If such is the case, then I'm sorry OP. My intent was to lessen your pain by hopefully creating empathy and understanding, not to make you feel bad for feeling the way that you do.
@Beyond Betrayed


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I get the point, I do. But here's devils advocate.... say for instance, I've had sex with my husband 10,000 times in our life together. Then one night I say no, and then he forces himself on me. Wouldn't that be rape? Even though I consented 10,000 times before; if I say no, it's no. So, to your point, while well taken to get maybe what he was thinking, is not the same thing. Just because I have sex with him and he sees me naked all the time, does NOT give him the right to video tape me WITHOUT my consent. End of discussion on that point. You will NEVER persuade me to think otherwise, ever. This will never be an okay thing that he did. Can I get over it, past it? I hope so. But I don't know


Yes. Yes yes yes. Many people still don't understand consent. I hope your posts will enlighten some.

My honest impression is that you can work through this. I really do also think you may both benefit by posting here together. The same way you are understanding more about the way your husband may have felt and having some empathy for him, your husband should benefit if he reads some of your responses and the other posters who see what a huge betrayal this was. 

My ex husband was an incredible lover and we had a great sex life. We did take some pics and short vids, but he was always a bit leery about them. Eventually he got used to it and felt better about it and we didn't do it a lot anyway so it was kind of a non issue with us.

If I had secretly taped him in anyway that your husband had taped you, he would have left me immediately and never looked back. The betrayal he would feel would be insurmountable. He is a very private person and would hate me for doing this because he would never understand how I could have betrayed him like that. I'm just giving you this perspective because consent is incredibly important. The same man who would have left me in an instant for secretly taping him, may have agreed to it if I had said "hey you know what would be sexy for me? If I could set up a camera that seemed to be hidden and film you getting out of the shower and drying off." Again, consent is the only difference. 

The people here who are saying it isn't such a big deal probably really wouldn't care if it happened to them, and their view of it is ok for them. We all get to decide what things require our consent and what things we don't actually care about. So this is not a black and white subject that applies equally to everyone, at least when it comes to what happens to them and their body. But no one else gets to decide that for your body. So really no one should make a move like your husband did without consent. No matter how innocent your desire is, you don't get to take what hasn't been offered without consequences. It's so easy when you truly understand consent. It means the other persons well being is more important to you than your own desires so you don't act without consent.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

BB, I've read your thread and just wanted you to know I'm sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Wow, that's perspective. Thank you! THIS is what I'm looking for. I need to wrap my head around his motivations and where he was coming from and you did help me a bit. I still don't understand it, but maybe in time I will. It still doesn't make what he did right, but it helps to know where his mind was at.
> 
> For me, how I feel about what I look like and how shy I am (even with someone I've been with for 30 years) is why I feel so hurt. To trust him enough to "let go" and do something that maybe I'm not 100% comfortable with, just so things don't get stale or boring; then he goes and does this. That's the trust part. I trusted him 100%. With everything. If I'd have gone home with some random guy from a bar and had sex, then found out he secretly taped us...I'd be super pissed and probably have him arrested  BUT, I wouldn't be hurt. This random guy has no allegiance to me, this random guy didn't swear to protect and honor me. That's where I'm coming from. And it really sucks!


Yeah of course you are hurt. You are shy and maybe a little insecure about yourself, by the way most people are to a certain extent, even men, but our sex drive makes that irrelevant most of the time. Though some guys are just selfish and just don't give a ****. But say you care and want to be good for your partner then at least at first there is some pressure there. So yeah you gave him something that was very personal to you and he put it on tape. Now if he is NOT really sharing it with someone maybe it's really is because he wants to re-live that moment with you. Which in a kind of twisted way is at least not as bad right? Still has to do with consent though and very disrespectful. Plus at this point I would be very iffy about if there was a more nefarious reason. This post and the last one is not me sticking up for him in any way. I am not on his side at all. However, I mean he must like it if he tapped it.

So again this post is a general discussion about decent men and sexuality in relationships. (I wish we could be doing this before he made an ass of himself and possibly blew up his marriage but so be it.)

One thing about being insecure. I see this like the husbands who won't go out to dance, be romantic, or talk (generally won't put effort into trying to create emotional intimacy) with their wives because they don't feel comfortable and are shy. For them I would say, step it up. Read a book, ask a blog but step it up. Your wife needs to feel special so LEARN how to do it in a way that you both can feel comfortable about it. It's not THAT hard. Lots of guys won't do it because they just have no basis to start, but we are in the age of information. Nothing is stopping you from trying. A good husband sees it's a need for her and tries. I have to say in the same way a good wife tries to create sexual intimacy. Her husband needs it, it is one of the primary things he looks for from his wife. Both things are very important needs in our natures that we have sworn to forsake in all others for, so it's really not right for anyone as a spouse to just neglect that aspect of the relationship. 

So I have to be honest if my wife looked at sex as not important in our relationship and me just getting off I would feel in way that I was not important to her. Because for me sexuality is really a part of me and is an expression of my love for her, for us. Like if you wrote love letters to your husband and he was like, there nice but really not that important. If you feel like those letters were a primary way of expressing you love that would hurt right? 

I get the whole trust thing (specifically talking about insecurity here and not the tapping issue which is totally reasonable), but sometimes with love you got to go for it. When your partner is telling you that really want you, it's kind of unfair not to believe them. After all subtlety aren't you saying, nah I don't think what you are telling me is true. Again that is something that he may not understand enough to articulate but I am sure it affects him. His mind is telling him, she doesn't believe me, she doesn't trust that I am attracted to her, and she doesn't want to have sex with me. Why am I not good enough. Again he may not even be able to articulate that and may just know something is wrong with the relationship and is sad. 

You should read that blog. There are many posts about this stuff. This women's whole mindset changed about her sex life, and she was able to actually get joy and the desire to want to have sex because instead of seeing his need for sex as a selfish one she started to see it as her husbands strong desire to express love for her in a physical way. Which for a good man is what it is. It's like what I suspect would be for woman like the most intimate bonding conversation with an orgasm at the end. Sounds like fun right. When you do it with your wife afterwords you feel very very close to her. Especially if you feel like she was into you. That is a good thing, a great thing for your marriage. 

Now I am ascribing all these things to a guy who secretly tapes his wife, I am not sure if it's smart for me to do this though. SO I WANT TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR I AM NOT EXCUSING WHAT HE DID IN ANYWAY. If you never had sex with him it would not make that right for him to tape you. It's gross. This is absolutely and issue of consent and if it was me I think it would be enough for me to kick his ass out. I don't think I could recover but like you if the rest was good I would probably try. Now if she asked me if I wanted to I would probably like the idea. It's nothing that I would do and hide it that's for sure, I get the consent part of it. However I should tell you if it got to the point where I was so desperate to have that intimacy that I wanted to tape it just for the memories. If I felt like you just didn't want that with me or it wasn't important, or worse you didn't like it with me, I probably just divorce you. So your marriage has some really big problems in it, and is sounds like it has for a while. This is just the culmination of that. 

So the reason why I am telling you this is just so you can understand his and more generally men's mindset when it comes to sex. I don't get his mindset as far as the tapping thing except to say it's messed up. He may be a shallow *******. I can't say, I know I would not do this. But you said your marriage is good in other ways. So maybe he isn't a bad guy just a dunce. Only you can say. And you need to heal before you do anything. But I DO think it's good that you at least have a perspective of what sex is for a man that is more then, I am horny and I need to get off. Thinking that that is all it is for us is going to put you at a disadvantage, because for many of us it's just not true and it almost seems dismissive. I think in a lot of ways it's the same as when a husband says, all you want to do is talk about feelings, in a dismissive way. Interestingly lots of women also feel the same way about sex too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> So I have to eventually decide if he can rebuild my blind trust in him again; if not, I can't stay


I feel like blind trust is just not a wise thing even in the best relationships. That just leaves you too vulnerable. At this point why not work for just small trust as earned for a while. See if you can get there.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I hope you two work it out.
> 
> It is very obvious he loves and desires you but went a little nuts with his sex drive not being taken care of.
> 
> ...


Speaking from the woman's perspective, PLEASE don't do it. I just can't explain the feeling I got when I saw my bedroom on a video....my stomach dropped, I almost threw up. Then seeing him & I together, it negates the fun we had. If that makes sense. In one of the videos, I remember that night we had....we went out for a rare night out, had a few cocktails  I'm a little more pliable (so he says) when I've had a few. We had so much fun and I think back on that night often and smile. Now, when I see it playback, it ruins it. He was acting. It wasn't spontaneous fun, it was contrived to get the best possible "shot" of us. Angling me "just so", etc... yuck! So please please please, don't do it. Go to counseling, I wish we would have so then maybe this would have never happened. Or maybe it would still have. Who knows?


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Have you not heard of trickle truth? Seems if the OP had posted this in the infidelity section most people would be advising her that she doesn't know the full story yet and to proceed with extreme caution until she does. Perhaps a poly would be best in this situation.
> 
> If someone betrays your trust in a completely selfish way and knows they are risking losing you if you find out, and you catch them at this act without them confessing it first, what reason would you have to believe they are telling the full truth? They clearly had not intended you to know the truth, so their opinion of what truth you need to know is already way off base.


That's what I'm afraid of. I found out completely by happenstance. My external hard drive with all of my pictures & videos going back to 2003 crapped out. I ran a recovery program and then the rest is history. So, had I not found it myself, I would have never known. He even said so. He said he never intended for anyone to ever know but him. I'm afraid he's gas lighting me. Only admitting to what can be 100% proven, and deny the rest. 

Trust is a tricky thing. I find it hard to be in the same room with him right now. But I'm tired of being angry, it's exhausting.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> OP,
> 
> Food for thought. I don't know how long that particular hard drive has been around, but I know I have some old hard drives from when my wife and I first got together. That's over 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


The videos of me are from a year or two ago....he can't remember. From what I looked like, clothes, etc... I think it was 2 years ago. It was a little camera hidden inside a phone charger, so it was totally not weird when it was sitting on our bedroom side table. I think I remember even seeing it. 

The enormous porn stash I found I think is mostly older stuff, like you said, maybe 20 years worth. We've had several computers over the years, but have always backed everything up on an external drive...which is where I found everything. I think finding everything, all at once, including my videos, is what is so hard to wrap my head around. It's just all too much at once.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

BioFury said:


> Yes. Based on her description of her husband, he's not a pervert, he's just a normal guy.
> 
> Assuming the worst isn't going to do her situation any good.


It might make it better to assume the worst if he IS secretly trying to or has posted the stuff online. I mean he really isn't entitled and certainly hasn't earned any reason to trust him. It may not make her marriage better, but maybe it shouldn't be. I think without really knowing exactly what he did she shouldn't even decided if she wants the marriage or not yet. She should be damn sure it's only just a private tape, because anything worse and in my mind she should move on. Even press charges if she wants. 

Overall at this point I think it's wise to verify to the best of her ability that all this was was something for private use. At lease if they do stay together there is some foundation to start.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

First, at least for me you should stop saying that you wish he'd had an affair. You don't know how you'd feel if he really did that. Many people compare the pain to the death of a loved one. So, please be careful what you wish for. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as what he did, but maybe it would.

Second, you don't know that he hasn't slept around, do you? I agree with the others who think it would be smart to have him do a polygraph.

Third, if this is his only transgression, then why not some sex therapy for couples? Neither one of you likes it when the other is in control of what you do sexually, so some therapy might help you define a different dynamic that both of you can agree on and commit to.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> They both violated each others privacy.


In what way? He violated my trust by secretly video taping me getting dressed & having sex, multiple times with a hidden camera. But how did I violate his? By going through OUR family computer? Our kids use this computer also, BTW. So no, I wasn't snooping or looking for anything. For 30 years, not once have I ever gone through his phone, browser history, emails, anything. That's not me, if someone is going to cheat (because obviously that's what you'd be looking for) they're going to find a way to do it.

The only reason I found out was because our external hard drive crashed, and all of our pictures and family videos dating back to 2003 were gone. I had to run a software recovery program to hopefully recover them, which HE suggested I do. I guess he thought once you "delete" something on purpose that it's really gone. Apparently not


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Yeah, I guess that's part of the problem. In finding his porn stash, there were thousands (and I mean more than 11k) images on the "deleted" hard drive of porn. Not to mention hundreds of videos. He said these were all from years ago, from back in the day when you had to download a folder to view pics & videos. Because, of course now there's PornHub, Twitter (who knew?), etc... that you don't have to download anything anymore. I never snooped through his files, looked at his browser history, I didn't care. I think porn is fine, and I don't feel like he was cheating on me by watching it. I guess it's just the sheer amount that was there that bothers me. Like is that ALL he ever thought about? Is he sneaking off at work to look at it? I mean, who has that kind of time? I guess if you're addicted, you find the time....just like with anything else.
> 
> He swears he's not addicted to sex or porn and doesn't need help in that area. His drive has diminished the last year or two, so he says. I guess that comes with age? But he's open to marriage counseling. I'm not yet. I'm going to work on me and then decide what's next.
> 
> I really appreciate you giving your perspective. It does help.


Another thing is that men are also hoarders/collectors: him having all these videos and images doesn't mean that he is going through all of them on a daily basis. You don't generally find as many women who collect things as much as men do. I remember collecting porn too (when you had to download it). I watched perhaps 3% of the things I owned. Now with instant access/streaming, it is completely unnecessary. It's also unnecessary for me to ever look at it since the sex in the marriage has improved so much; I don't really remember the last time I even thought about it. And the last time I watched it was together with wife (at her request). 
But that shouldn't make you feel pressurised into being more intimate with your husband than you are comfortable with.

I am saying these things because you don't sound like you want to throw away your marriage; but I also can't know what really goes on in your husband's head: he is your best bet in terms of finding out what he _really_ thinks and if it makes sense to you. When you are ready, you should see an MC together.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I get your point, but totally not the same thing. If I set up cameras to check on my kids, that's so far off from violating someone's privacy by taping them having sex. Especially when it's done by the one person who swore to honor and protect you. No matter his intentions, it was wrong. But he knows that, or at least that's what he says. He does say he misses our friendship more than anything and doesn't care if it takes me a year to decide what I want...he wants to wait, no matter what I decide. So I guess there's that. Now the problem is deciding.


I think you already decided. At least that's the tone I get from your posts. But do it in your own time.

I think the intentions _always_ matter.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

alte Dame said:


> First, at least for me you should stop saying that you wish he'd had an affair. You don't know how you'd feel if he really did that. Many people compare the pain to the death of a loved one. So, please be careful what you wish for. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad as what he did, but maybe it would.
> 
> Second, you don't know that he hasn't slept around, do you? I agree with the others who think it would be smart to have him do a polygraph.
> 
> Third, if this is his only transgression, then why not some sex therapy for couples? Neither one of you likes it when the other is in control of what you do sexually, so some therapy might help you define a different dynamic that both of you can agree on and commit to.


Unfortunately, I can't know for sure if he's ever had an affair. I know I'd be devastated, but I guess why I said that is because it would be something HE did, without me. I had absolutely NO SAY in what he did when he taped us together. If it was an affair, that's all on him and the choices he made. He took away my choices for his own pleasure and needs. Not fair and it sucks 

For sure I'm getting therapy. I have to work out this anger and hurt. Only then can I decide what to do with the marriage. He wants to wait for me, no matter how long it takes. And he knows that even after staying, I may decide that this was just too much to get past. I won't make him pay for this the rest of our lives together, this I know. So if I really can't get over it, we will have to divorce. Time will tell I guess.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Speaking from the woman's perspective, PLEASE don't do it. I just can't explain the feeling I got when I saw my bedroom on a video....my stomach dropped, I almost threw up. Then seeing him & I together, it negates the fun we had. If that makes sense. In one of the videos, I remember that night we had....we went out for a rare night out, had a few cocktails  I'm a little more pliable (so he says) when I've had a few. We had so much fun and I think back on that night often and smile. Now, when I see it playback, it ruins it. He was acting. It wasn't spontaneous fun, it was contrived to get the best possible "shot" of us. Angling me "just so", etc... yuck! So please please please, don't do it. Go to counseling, I wish we would have so then maybe this would have never happened. Or maybe it would still have. Who knows?


He wasn't 'acting'! It still meant all the things you thought it did I am sure. But I know what you mean. It ruined it because you didn't know and he didn't ask...And it was _him_ filming you *and* making love. The way you phrased it sounds like it was somebody else filming you having sex with your husband.

When I filmed us doing stuff (with her consent!), my wife would often get annoyed that I would change or stop in the middle to change to a different angle shot or switch positions etc...And she said a few times that maybe I should make love to the camera instead since I was being more attentive at getting the best angle rather than paying her the required attention...
Loosing the 'focus' kind of acquired a different meaning in this context.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Speaking from the woman's perspective, PLEASE don't do it. I just can't explain the feeling I got when I saw my bedroom on a video....my stomach dropped, I almost threw up. Then seeing him & I together, it negates the fun we had. If that makes sense. In one of the videos, I remember that night we had....we went out for a rare night out, had a few cocktails  I'm a little more pliable (so he says) when I've had a few. We had so much fun and I think back on that night often and smile. Now, when I see it playback, it ruins it. He was acting. It wasn't spontaneous fun, it was contrived to get the best possible "shot" of us. Angling me "just so", etc... yuck! So please please please, don't do it. Go to counseling, I wish we would have so then maybe this would have never happened. Or maybe it would still have. Who knows?


LOL! No worries! I was expressing empathy and advice for you both. 

Mrs. Conan and I are in a much more solid situation than you unfortunately find yourself.

I have been tempted but not for long and we communicate a lot more. Mrs. Conan also does everything she can on her end and intent helps a lot.

I believe your husband has a problem but you definitely have some negative body issues and some possibly negative views of sex to overcome.

I am very sorry your husband hurt you this way and damaged your memories. He was very wrong to do that to you and he harmed himself in his marriage as well.

I was simply empathizing with his probable situation. I really appreciate your insight. Men and women sometimes don't view things at the same level of importance and your views help me understand.

Men with high drives can get a little crazy with our hornyness and it is agonizing to not be satisfied at times.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I just can't explain the feeling I got when I saw my bedroom on a video....my stomach dropped, I almost threw up. ...
> 
> Now, when I see it playback, it ruins it. He was acting. It wasn't spontaneous fun, it was contrived to get the best possible "****" of us.
> 
> ******* me "just so", etc... yuck!


Jeez. I wish I had some comforting words here but there are none. All I can think to say is that your feelings seem most understandable, and that I’m genuinely sorry. 💐


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Do you in your most honest and introspective moments believe that this is a rational position to take?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Where I live this is known as “my way or the highway.”>


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TheBohannons said:


> Most men DO NOT think it is the most important thing in life. That's a bunch of noise. Do we think sex is loving, fun, feels great and important to bonding in a relationship, yes we do. How is that wrong?
> 
> Oh and a lot of women think this way also. I am marrying one of them.


If you read books like HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS, you will be shocked to learn men’s number one need is intimacy. This couple needs to read that book and also
THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES . I think both are written by Dr. Harley.

While this marriage may last, if things don’t change the loving relationship is doomed.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator warning:-*

No more threadjacks. Further action will be taken without any notification.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Try going for a walk with your husband. Without the kids.

BTW, Studies show the most important thing for men is a job.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> Where I live this is known as “my way or the highway.”>



I don't agree at all. Look, am I perfect? Not at all. Could I have "given in" and had sex a few more times a week just to keep the peace, of course. But, is that really a healthy relationship? I was being honest with him all along. My drive went from twice a week (prior to kids) to once a week....IMO, not tragic and certainly not a sexless marriage as some on here are saying. But he wanted HIS way, and when it wasn't his way (i.e., 5+ times a week) it would be a big deal. Constant bickering about it, no other conversations to be had...it all revolved around when's the next time. You have no idea what that's like to live with. I may have well been a blow up doll at that point; he didn't care about me, my day, anything but getting satisfied. So that's when I asked him if he wanted a divorce. Neither of us were happy.

BTW, it's all a moot point. Water under the bridge. No matter how I got here, here I am. I have to deal with this and am posting on here to get real perspectives to help me understand and get through it. I am not here so that people can insinuate that him secretly taping me having sex was in any way my fault


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I don't agree at all. Look, am I perfect? Not at all. Could I have "given in" and had sex a few more times a week just to keep the peace, of course. But, is that really a healthy relationship? I was being honest with him all along. My drive went from twice a week (prior to kids) to once a week....IMO, not tragic and certainly not a sexless marriage as some on here are saying. But he wanted HIS way, and when it wasn't his way (i.e., 5+ times a week) it would be a big deal. *Constant bickering about it, no other conversations to be had...it all revolved around when's the next time. You have no idea what that's like to live with. I may have well been a blow up doll at that point; he didn't care about me, my day, anything but getting satisfied. So that's when I asked him if he wanted a divorce.* Neither of us were happy.
> 
> BTW, it's all a moot point. Water under the bridge. No matter how I got here, here I am. I have to deal with this and am posting on here to get real perspectives to help me understand and get through it. I am not here so that people can insinuate that him secretly taping me having sex was in any way my fault


That he taped you is *absolutely in no way your fault*. Whether it is a big deal to you, you will have to decide. We can't decide it *for* you. 

What's staring me in the face is more the bolded which I think is perhaps more of a deciding factor whether you should stay or leave: it sounds as though his high drive is causing you a lot of grief.
(I presume you asked him if he wanted divorce *before* the tape thing?). Do you actually enjoy the sex with him? (regardless of quantity: what is the *quality* like?) I think going from once to twice a week is no big deal. Going from 5 times a week (for him) to twice or once a week is also not a big deal and I am sure it can be worked out. It's not like you are changing from 6 times a year to every other day. But it sounds to me as though you are not really over the moon with the sex itself and quite tired of it/from it, I am not sure. Before the whole sex tape thing: did you enjoy it with your husband or was it mostly a pain in the ass? (pardon the pun)

I personally would prefer sex less often but to have *better* sex instead (within reason). I could live with once or twice a week but as long as the sex itself was mind blowing (which it is), the frequency would be less important for me. I could also live with less if we also communicated and connected in other ways. I don't know how it is for him, but even for guys, it is not all about the release or finding a hole...Many men also crave the connection/warmth with the other half, not just the act itself.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> He wasn't 'acting'! It still meant all the things you thought it did I am sure. But I know what you mean. It ruined it because you didn't know and he didn't ask...And it was _him_ filming you *and* making love. _*The way you phrased it sounds like it was somebody else filming you having sex with your husband.*_
> 
> LOL!! That would be really messed up if I was okay with someone else being there to tape us, but would have a problem with him using a hidden camera  I meant on the video I can tell that he was moving me into the right position to be on camera, or tilting us in a way that made for a better shot. Knowing now, that he was filming, it all seems so contrived....inauthentic (is that a word?)
> 
> ...


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> That he taped you is *absolutely in no way your fault*. Whether it is a big deal to you, you will have to decide. We can't decide it *for* you.
> 
> What's staring me in the face is more the bolded which I think is perhaps more of a deciding factor whether you should stay or leave: it sounds as though his high drive is causing you a lot of grief.
> (I presume you asked him if he wanted divorce *before* the tape thing?). Do you actually enjoy the sex with him? (regardless of quantity: what is the *quality* like?) I think going from once to twice a week is no big deal. Going from 5 times a week (for him) to twice or once a week is also not a big deal and I am sure it can be worked out. It's not like you are changing from 6 times a year to every other day. But it sounds to me as though you are not really over the moon with the sex itself and quite tired of it/from it, I am not sure. Before the whole sex tape thing: *did you enjoy it with your husband* or was it mostly a pain in the ass? (pardon the pun)
> ...



I do enjoy it. It's always great and fun, he's attentive and cares if I am good. So it was very frustrating that he couldn't be satisfied with great sex once a week....but I want to clear up that I'm talking about 4-5 years ago when all this bickering was happening and when we talked about divorce. After my youngest was born (with special needs) I think he realized I had way more on my plate than I could handle and he backed off (then, that's where the increased porn use came in and then eventually the dreaded nanny camera). I think this definitely all adds into the equation of why he taped me, I'm starting to see it. These discussions with everyone on here and hearing other points of view, it all really helps  But him doing it still blows my mind....had I not actually seen myself on those videos with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe he'd do something like that.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I do enjoy it. It's always great and fun, he's attentive and cares if I am good. So it was very frustrating that he couldn't be satisfied with great sex once a week....but I want to clear up that I'm talking about 4-5 years ago when all this bickering was happening and when we talked about divorce. After my youngest was born (with special needs) I think he realized I had way more on my plate than I could handle and he backed off (then, that's where the increased porn use came in and then eventually the dreaded nanny camera). I think this definitely all adds into the equation of why he taped me, I'm starting to see it. These discussions with everyone on here and hearing other points of view, it all really helps  But him doing it still blows my mind....had I not actually seen myself on those videos with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe he'd do something like that.


This sounds encouraging. I hope you two will work it out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I don't agree at all. Look, am I perfect? Not at all. Could I have "given in" and had sex a few more times a week just to keep the peace, of course. But, is that really a healthy relationship? I was being honest with him all along. My drive went from twice a week (prior to kids) to once a week....IMO, not tragic and certainly not a sexless marriage as some on here are saying. But he wanted HIS way, and when it wasn't his way (i.e., 5+ times a week) it would be a big deal. Constant bickering about it, no other conversations to be had...it all revolved around when's the next time. You have no idea what that's like to live with. I may have well been a blow up doll at that point; he didn't care about me, my day, anything but getting satisfied. So that's when I asked him if he wanted a divorce. Neither of us were happy.
> 
> BTW, it's all a moot point. Water under the bridge. No matter how I got here, here I am. I have to deal with this and am posting on here to get real perspectives to help me understand and get through it. I am not here so that people can insinuate that him secretly taping me having sex was in any way my fault



See, this is a perfect example of what happens with communication. I did not insinuate you caused this. Nothing could be further from my mind. You also misread another of my comments. Quite a few have made assumptions and then extrapolated a conclusion to the point of wanting him arrested.

I think what he did was ridiculous. I also think your reaction was to strong. You said he would like sex 7-8 times a week. That isn’t just a want, it’s a need. You said you now want sex 1 time a week. Furthermore, if he doesn’t like it he could go find someone else. Look in this forum, that’s what happens all the time here. Usually after many years. You want it 1/week, he wants it 7-8/week. The compromise is 1/week. You get your way, he is sex starved and rejected the rest of the time. I promise you this is not going to work. Look at the books I mentioned. When he pushes for sex you reject him. In his love bank instead of making a deposit you have made a big withdrawal. You haven’t given up anything but his constant pressure is depleting your love bank for him too. You and others here are talking about his sex drive as something he has control over. That isn’t the case. A grown person has the desire and it isn’t something that is controllable. Think of the need for water and having to go without for a couple of days. You would be going mad. By the time you actually let him make love to you, he is nearly out of his mind. How is he possibly going to be an inspired or thoughtful lover? Probably more like wham, bam thank you mamm. When you do have sex do you only do it once?

Porn cannot replace real sex. Howard Stern was married with three kids. He had a wonderful family yet claimed he was using porn three times a day to get himself off. I have no doubt if he was having regular sex with his wife he would not be able to watch porn three times a day. 

If I need to make this clearer, his filming you is a small problem compared to divorce and sooner or later that’s going to happen if you don’t come up wiling a better solution than once a week. What you are telling him with your actions snthat you don’t love him. Kids come and go. Mine are gone and it seems like they’re home forever until they go off to school. Then it seems like it wasn’t long at all. If you think the romance is going to come roaring back forget it. Years of knowing where your priorities lie regarding him will never be overcome.

Just go read the threads where men and women complain of a lack of sex. See how many end well.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is interesting that someone thinks their needs are reasonable, but their spouse's needs are not. Wanting sex daily may seem like a lot to some people, but to others perfectly normal. If your husband is craving daily sex and you only give it to him once a week, you are depriving him of having his needs met. It's that simple. It doesn't matter that you have a special needs child or whatever, he still has that need and you are not meeting it.

I understand high needs children. I am not going to explain it, because I am not anonymous on this website and do not want to violate the privacy of my child. Suffice it to say that my child was extremely high energy with ADHD and other issues. And I homeschooled. I literally could not go to the store with that child. I am not a lax parent, nor did my children lack proper discipline. It was exhausting. I also homeschooled my children all the way through from pre-K through high school. Yet somehow I still was available for sex with my husband way more than once per week.

Think about it. You are giving your husband at most 1/7 of the amount of sex he is requesting. Is that a compromise? No - it's not. It's deprivation. 

Do I think that is a good reason for your husband to record your sexual encounters or to record you when you are unaware? No. They are two separate issues. The fact is that you put them together in your original question and you are getting mixed up thinking that everyone is lumping them together when that's not it.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> See, this is a perfect example of what happens with communication. I did not insinuate you caused this. Nothing could be further from my mind. You also misread another of my comments. Quite a few have made assumptions and then extrapolated a conclusion to the point of wanting him arrested.
> 
> I think what he did was ridiculous. I also think your reaction was to strong. You said he would like sex 7-8 times a week. That isn’t just a want, it’s a need. You said you now want sex 1 time a week. Furthermore, if he doesn’t like it he could go find someone else. Look in this forum, that’s what happens all the time here. Usually after many years. You want it 1/week, he wants it 7-8/week. The compromise is 1/week. You get your way, he is sex starved and rejected the rest of the time. I promise you this is not going to work. Look at the books I mentioned. When he pushes for sex you reject him. In his love bank instead of making a deposit you have made a big withdrawal. You haven’t given up anything but his constant pressure is depleting your love bank for him too. You and others here are talking about his sex drive as something he has control over. That isn’t the case. A grown person has the desire and it isn’t something that is controllable. Think of the need for water and having to go without for a couple of days. You would be going mad. By the time you actually let him make love to you, he is nearly out of his mind. How is he possibly going to be an inspired or thoughtful lover? Probably more like wham, bam thank you mamm. When you do have sex do you only do it once?
> 
> ...


I think it's hard to decipher innuendo in a text; but you have come off in some of what you've said almost as if I'm somehow to blame for his transgression. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Defensive? Maybe, but our life a few years ago was rocky and I was trying to give the full picture instead of being one of those people who are like "poor me, I was a perfect wife, we had a perfect life, and this jerk did this awful thing to me". You know? They of course are two separate issues, but knowing the backstory I think helps. 

I think men and women are created differently. In fact, everyone is created differently. One man may enjoy sex twice a week and another 20. Who's to say what is right? I can't manufacture energy....I guess there are pills for that, but that's another forum. All I'm getting at is a lot of people here have made the comments suggesting that since I didn't have sex with him enough, then that is a *logical reason* as to what he did. And that pisses me off.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> It is interesting that someone thinks their needs are reasonable, but their spouse's needs are not. Wanting sex daily may seem like a lot to some people, but to others perfectly normal. If your husband is craving daily sex and you only give it to him once a week, you are depriving him of having his needs met. It's that simple. It doesn't matter that you have a special needs child or whatever, he still has that need and you are not meeting it.
> 
> I understand high needs children. I am not going to explain it, because I am not anonymous on this website and do not want to violate the privacy of my child. Suffice it to say that my child was extremely high energy with ADHD and other issues. And I homeschooled. I literally could not go to the store with that child. I am not a lax parent, nor did my children lack proper discipline. It was exhausting. I also homeschooled my children all the way through from pre-K through high school. Yet somehow I still was available for sex with my husband way more than once per week.
> 
> ...


Well, I guess I'm coming from the place of full discloser in my original post. I'm not going to give half the story and then I won't get what I came here for. Information, insight and help. So I didn't lump the two issues together, it is just part of my backstory. The problem is, many people here are turning it into the same issue. Giving a lot of advice on my lack of sex drive, etc...

Anyway, it's all a moot point if I can't find a way to forgive him.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> *It is interesting that someone thinks their needs are reasonable, but their spouse's needs are not. *.


QFT


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> All I'm getting at is a lot of people here have made the comments suggesting that since I didn't have sex with him enough, then that is a *logical reason* as to what he did. And that pisses me off.


I've read a lot of threads on this forum and I have never seen anyone suggest doing what your husband did when a man isn't getting his needs met. Your husband's needs are his responsibility. If he wasn't getting what he needed from you, he should have found a healthy way to deal with it, even to the point of divorcing you and finding a willing partner. Recording you without your knowledge is way out of line. His thinking is clearly not right.

Also I'm sorry that you are tired. I think my post may have come across and not considering your state of being tired. Your husband should be working with you when he gets home. If he says he's too tired, then he is not considering your needs either. It is a two way street. If you two are working together to meet each other's needs and the needs of the other family members, you two should be able to come up with a workable solution. Taking pictures of you without your knowledge is not a workable solution. I'd be angry too if my husband did something crazy like that.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It is hard to equate what he did (setting up the camera, positioning OP for the best shot etc.) as intimacy. She thought they were being intimate; but, he was putting on a show for the camera. They were not making love - they were making a movie for his sole gratification.

Just because one person is able to handle certain responsibilities and duties does not mean that a person who is not able to function in the same capacity is less than. 

Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> I've read a lot of threads on this forum and I have never seen anyone suggest doing what your husband did when a man isn't getting his needs met. Your husband's needs are his responsibility. If he wasn't getting what he needed from you, he should have found a healthy way to deal with it, even to the point of divorcing you and finding a willing partner. Recording you without your knowledge is way out of line. His thinking is clearly not right.
> 
> Also I'm sorry that you are tired. I think my post may have come across and not considering your state of being tired. Your husband should be working with you when he gets home. If he says he's too tired, then he is not considering your needs either. It is a two way street. If you two are working together to meet each other's needs and the needs of the other family members, you two should be able to come up with a workable solution. Taking pictures of you without your knowledge is not a workable solution. I'd be angry too if my husband did something crazy like that.


Thanks. It's a strange thing laying out your personal laundry for strangers to comment on. But there's no one IRL that I want to tell about this, I'm mortified. I know not having sex more with my husband is harmful to a healthy life together. But, being tired does a number on you. What one person goes through with a special needs child, may be far different/more difficult than what you've had to deal with. Maybe not. You may have found the secret to balancing everything; but for me, it's been impossible. But to be fair to the hubby, this whole him wanting sex 5-7 times a week was before our special needs child was born. After she came along, I think he realized what was important and how much was on my plate so he backed off (of course, then the porn use increased and then later on him secretly video taping us). I just wanted to give the full picture in my original post of what our entire situation has been leading up to the nanny cam. I am who I am (sexually) and have always been this way, so for people to say the poor guy is sex starved and that's an excuse why he betrayed me, that doesn't hold water IMO.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> It is hard to equate what he did (setting up the camera, positioning OP for the best shot etc.) as intimacy. She thought they were being intimate; but, he was putting on a show for the camera. They were not making love - they were making a movie for his sole gratification.
> 
> Just because one person is able to handle certain responsibilities and duties does not mean that a person who is not able to function in the same capacity is less than.
> 
> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


Thank you for this. I think people forget everyone and every situation is different. What works for one, may not work for another. And what one person's situation is, may be so far off of what I'm going through (with my child). And who knew wanting to give my full backstory in the original post would lead to me being told I'm sex starving my husband, and then that would logically lead to him secretly video taping me?!? I know we don't have the most healthy relationship, but it was not out of left field either. My drive was low, even as a teenager. It's how I am made. I could have easily left all of that out, but I came here for honest feedback & help from unbiased people. To give half truths would not be productive for me.

I've asked him to get therapy alone, as I am going to do. I think we need to each work out our own stuff first before (if at all) we work on us together. Still trying to find a way to forgive him, not sure if I can


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


This... this right here is the problem. How can you say that? I am an everyday sex guy, and guess what that is ok. 

It places and unfair burden on the spouse, really? So, not counting the video stuff, because he likes sex with his wife, he is sick. 

Hey, maybe the big problem here is that they have incompatible sex drives and she will not compromise to 3 times a week and try to met his needs, no she threatened divorce and he was too chicken to find a different woman. But he is the one with the problem. 

That is just crap. This attitude that some women have that they are doing such a favor to their husbands to give them some of that extra special duty sex makes me want to puke. 

What happened to actual love, not the love that OP professes, but real love and desire for your partner. Who thinks like that? 

Where does this come from? 

I think that it comes from weak men and women that really don't love their husbands, they want to think that the love them, but really deep down, they don't. They are used to them, they like them, they don't mind them paying the bills, but they don't love them. And they DONT want to have sex with them.

And I am not talking about the video incident, that was creepy and wrong. I am talking about this attitude of if you are a good boy, I will lay there and let you get off.

Gag me with a spoon, are you serious? 

If I ever, ever felt like a woman was doing that to me, she would be history. The entire thought of living like that make me puke...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thanks. It's a strange thing laying out your personal laundry for strangers to comment on. But there's no one IRL that I want to tell about this, I'm mortified. I know not having sex more with my husband is harmful to a healthy life together. But, being tired does a number on you. What one person goes through with a special needs child, may be far different/more difficult than what you've had to deal with. Maybe not. You may have found the secret to balancing everything; but for me, it's been impossible. But to be fair to the hubby, this whole him wanting sex 5-7 times a week was before our special needs child was born. After she came along, I think he realized what was important and how much was on my plate so he backed off (of course, then the porn use increased and then later on him secretly video taping us). I just wanted to give the full picture in my original post of what our entire situation has been leading up to the nanny cam. I am who I am (sexually) and have always been this way, so for people to say the poor guy is sex starved and that's an excuse why he betrayed me, that doesn't hold water IMO.


Yeah, there is no point in comparing our situations. I have no idea what you've had to deal with, but whatever it is, it's your reality and you it's hard. I get that. Does your husband participate when he gets home from work? I am thankful that my husband has always been an involved father. He is also not afraid of housework when I needed a hand.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> This... this right here is the problem. How can you say that? I am an everyday sex guy, and guess what that is ok.
> 
> It places and unfair burden on the spouse, really? So, not counting the video stuff, because he likes sex with his wife, he is sick.
> 
> ...



Wow, are you mad about something? No need to berate someone for their opinion; that's what this is all about. You have your ways of thinking & doing things, as do others. No one is right or wrong.

And I don't think ANYWHERE in any of MY comments did I ever insinuate that I hate having sex or I just lay there and let my husband get off as if it's charity sex. Talk about projecting. Did you even read the entire thread, or are you cherry picking? Because you are not getting the full picture. I'm looking for honest outlooks and feedback here, but to come to this thread and berate someone's comments or say something about what I'm going through with my husband as if we have a loveless marriage. Who are you to judge? That's not what this is about. If I truly did not love my husband, guess what, the MINUTE I saw myself having sex in my bedroom on my computer screen, he would have been gone. End of story. No therapy or feedback needed. 

We're all entitled to our own opinions and way of life. You don't like, keep scrolling if you truly don't have anything productive or helpful to add to the conversation.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> Yeah, there is no point in comparing our situations. I have no idea what you've had to deal with, but whatever it is, it's your reality and you it's hard. I get that. Does your husband participate when he gets home from work? I am thankful that my husband has always been an involved father. He is also not afraid of housework when I needed a hand.


He will on occasion. But he works long hours so I feel bad asking. It's tough because being a homemaker is what I signed up for; but sometimes he doesn't get it when he gets to clock out at 6, my clock is still running until 10 or 11. Anyway, when it builds up and I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown, then I have no choice but to ask for help. He's a wonderful father, so I am very lucky for that.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Wow, are you mad about something? No need to berate someone for their opinion; that's what this is all about. You have your ways of thinking & doing things, as do others. No one is right or wrong.
> 
> And I don't think ANYWHERE in any of MY comments did I ever insinuate that I hate having sex or I just lay there and let my husband get off as if it's charity sex. Talk about projecting. Did you even read the entire thread, or are you cherry picking? Because you are not getting the full picture. I'm looking for honest outlooks and feedback here, but to come to this thread and berate someone's comments or say something about what I'm going through with my husband as if we have a loveless marriage. Who are you to judge? That's not what this is about. If I truly did not love my husband, guess what, the MINUTE I saw myself having sex in my bedroom on my computer screen, he would have been gone. End of story. No therapy or feedback needed.
> 
> We're all entitled to our own opinions and way of life. You don't like, keep scrolling if you truly don't have anything productive or helpful to add to the conversation.


Go back and reread what you have written, it really never sounds like you are into your husband. 

And yes it sounds like duty sex, if you felt differently, it would have sounded differently. I really does not. 

Now, what he did was wrong, divorce worthy even, but no, nowhere does it sound like you really love and desire your husband. I am sorry. 

No, I have never been in that situation, but do feel sorry for men and women that are in these types of incompatible sex drive situations. And you must admit that your sex compromise was not a compromise, it was "It is my way or the highway, and he blinked. I would have divorced you".

But my real objection was not to your posts, but to @Blondilocks post. That attitude has killed more marriages than infidelity.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Because someone wants sex daily they are sick and need therapy? Why? Bashing the husband for his level of desire is no different than bashing Beyond for hers.

Beyond refuses to accept that the lack of intimacy resulted in the video. She feels the 2 issues are entirely separate. Fair enough. Keep them seperate. There is nothing wrong with his desire for his wife. There is something very wrong with thinking that stunt was ok.

For a lot of people intimacy is very intimate. It is a side to them that they only show with trust and love. That is what he truly lost. This is what they need to talk about (and how she needs a serious break from the children)


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


You are one of my favorite posters on this board, but can you really say that about everyone? Take @SimplyAmorous for example, I highly doubt that she has any void to fill. Hell she has one of the biggest hearts on this board. No, the situations are not the same and I don't know the details. I'm just going by how she described the situation.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Go back and reread what you have written, it really never sounds like you are into your husband.
> 
> And yes it sounds like duty sex, if you felt differently, it would have sounded differently. I really does not.
> 
> Now, what he did was wrong, divorce worthy even, but no, nowhere does it sound like you really love and desire your husband. I am sorry.


I thought this way also, but we post as a couple and sometimes 4 eyes are better than 2. There are several things that she has written that changed the male side point of view. She didn't change after marriage or children. She was always this way for whatever reason. She does say a lot of good things about her husband and she enjoys sex with him. She appears angry only about the video.

Let's look at the sex and a few other things. If she enjoys it once a week, she may enjoy it twice a week with a break from the kids and the home life. Adding in a 3rd every once in awhile may be a compromise that would make her husband do cartwheels.

Their issues are not irreparable. The video may be, because she is private to her core. If they can get past that and get some rest they can still enjoy life together.

Try to work this out beyond. He has loved you for 25 years. If you have loved him for the same, find a way.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Go back and reread what you have written, it really never sounds like you are into your husband.
> 
> And yes it sounds like duty sex, if you felt differently, it would have sounded differently. I really does not.
> 
> ...



I hear you. But you can't honestly say that your sex drive should be the threshold that ALL OTHERS should be judged by. Everyone is different. Thank God we all are. If we all had yours (and my husbands) sex drives, what else would be ever get done?!? Give me a break. I have to say, it sounds like the last poster you were referring to, hit a sore spot? You got a little too defensive  No judgement, just observation.

But to be honest, for you to conclude that I don't love my husband is absurd. Why the hell would I even be on here if I wanted out. Plus, I thought my original post was straight forward, but obviously it's the cliff notes version of 30 YEARS together  So, take it down a notch with the "you obviously don't love him, blah blah blah". It's bullsh*t and insulting.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> Because someone wants sex daily they are sick and need therapy? Why? Bashing the husband for his level of desire is no different than bashing Beyond for hers.
> 
> Beyond refuses to accept that the lack of intimacy resulted in the video. She feels the 2 issues are entirely separate. Fair enough. Keep them seperate. There is nothing wrong with his desire for his wife. There is something very wrong with thinking that stunt was ok.
> 
> For a lot of people intimacy is very intimate. It is a side to them that they only show with trust and love. That is what he truly lost. This is what they need to talk about (and how she needs a serious break from the children)


I think over the course of this thread, getting a lot of great insight from the male perspective (the ones like you and others that have truly given me great info) I have come to the realization that because of our mismatched drives and needs that this did lead to the video. It snowballed starting with porn. I know. BUT, what I've been adamant about is that one has nothing to do with the other as far as making what he did okay, or even an EXCUSE. There is no excuse.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


That is completely off base. Trivializing, or neglecting, your spouse's needs, merely because you don't value them yourself, is entirely selfish and shameful.



Beyond Betrayed said:


> I hear you. But you can't honestly say that your sex drive should be the threshold that ALL OTHERS should be judged by. Everyone is different. Thank God we all are. If we all had yours (and my husbands) sex drives, what else would be ever get done?!? Give me a break.


The only sex drive that really matters is your husbands, and his is pretty normal for a man. I don't know the specific condition that your special needs child has, but a lot of the time, they are permanent. I of course hope that all disabled people make miraculous recoveries, but sadly this is frequently not the case.

With those provisions out of the way, I would ask you to consider, that your child is never going to get better. All the energy you pour into him/her is not making your life, or their life, better. It's not advancing them, or you, into a better place. All it's doing, is perpetuating the status quo. So it's important that you choose a status quo that is sustainable - because it's not going to end. Would you consider the possibility of eliminating unnecessary childcare responsibilities, so that more energy could be directed toward your husband?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I think over the course of this thread, getting a lot of great insight from the male perspective (the ones like you and others that have truly given me great info) I have come to the realization that because of our mismatched drives and needs that this did lead to the video. It snowballed starting with porn. I know. BUT, what I've been adamant about is that one has nothing to do with the other as far as making what he did okay, or even an EXCUSE. There is no excuse.


I think that is a fair assessment.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I hear you. But you can't honestly say that your sex drive should be the threshold that ALL OTHERS should be judged by. Everyone is different. Thank God we all are. If we all had yours (and my husbands) sex drives, what else would be ever get done?!? Give me a break. I have to say, it sounds like the last poster you were referring to, hit a sore spot? You got a little too defensive  No judgement, just observation.
> 
> But to be honest, for you to conclude that I don't love my husband is absurd. Why the hell would I even be on here if I wanted out. Plus, I thought my original post was straight forward, but obviously it's the cliff notes version of 30 YEARS together  So, take it down a notch with the "you obviously don't love him, blah blah blah". It's bullsh*t and insulting.


I find it sad that you seem incapable of looking at an overview of this situation. This has nothing to do with my sex drive. It has to do with your husbands sex drive and your sex drive. They don't match. 

Now your "compromise" about sex was that you were a 2 a week girl if that. He is a high drive guy. So your "compromise" was to stay at two, that is not a compromise, it is an ultimatum and you don't want to see that. 

And sorry, it does not really sound like you are deeply in love with your H. It just does not seem that way. Maybe I am wrong, but to me, it does not sound like it. 

But as to sex being the most important thing, yes, I believe it is for long term relationships it is. Not sex itself, but the desire to have sex, the bonding, she love reciprocated. 

And if I read you correctly, you agree with @Bondilocks? I guess since I am an everyday guy like your husband, I need therapy. I must be some kind of deviant. 

What he did was wrong, if it bothers you that much, divorce him. 

What bothers me about @Blondilocks is the sentiment that HD people need therapy. I guess you agree with her so that is fine. 

What bothers me about so many relationships is that people get into them, realizing that they are mismatched sexually, and they stay in those miserable relationships. You see to me it sound like you resent your husband because he wants to make love to you all the time.

Have you taken the time to read some of these board where women are dying for their husband to make love to them? The same for men, but the women especially. They feel like a failure, they feel ugly, they feel undesirable, because the man that they love will not MAKE love to them. 

Is there anything is the world more sad than a woman, that feels like that? I am not sure that there is...


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


For the record I am a 7x a week type of woman. That is not a problem in itself. However if I was constantly pressuring my partner to match my drive then yes, that part would be the problem. Discussion and compromise are the correct way to address mismatched drives ... which BTW can vary throughout ones life.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> It is hard to equate what he did (setting up the camera, positioning OP for the best shot etc.) as intimacy. She thought they were being intimate; but, he was putting on a show for the camera. They were not making love - they were making a movie for his sole gratification.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think someone who needs to empty 7 times a week needs to do so precisely because it’s not empty inside 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

This will be extremely long and it may bore you. Keep reading because you are about to read a train wreck. Entertainment value! Probably lots of spelling errors in this book. It reads good enough to understand it. 

This will be my last post in your thread. I have raised enough hell and caused enough problems in it. This post will however, show some of the reasons why I post some of the things I do around this place. It will be long and I have absolutely NO intention of try to change your mind on anything. I would just like to maybe give some insight to some people's thought process. It may even be some of your husband's thoughts, but I will never try to speculate what is going on in the man's head or how he thinks about things. His thoughts and actions are is own, as are his consequences.

For a recap from a previous post. My thoughts haven't changed. I would never do what he has done. Me and my wife tried the video taping sex thing once many years ago. I didn't like it at all. I completely understand where you are coming from. We will never do it again. 

His actions crossed the line without a doubt. If I have to say it again, I will. Your husband's actions crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed and you have every right to feel violated in response to his actions. That's full stop. End of story. Period! In fact, his actions are most definitely prosecutable in probably most of the United States if that's where you live. That's not hyperbole, that's fact. He made a very grave mistake, I'm not sure he even comprehends the gravity of the position he has put himself in. He now has to face the consequences of his actions, which includes and primarily is your wrath, among others that may take place.

That being said, I had what could be called a very very very rough childhood by anyone's account. Very abusive. I knew from a very young age that I never wanted children. They are my world now, but I never truly wanted children because of the crap that happened in my childhood. I was a year out of a 3 year ****ty marriage to my ex when I met my wife. We got along great and her son was starting to grow on me, but that didn't change my mind. We dated a while and got married. We got along great. The sex was great after the sexless marriage I got out of. We had sex every single day, 95% of the time, multiple times a day. We were great companions. Life was good. Sex life was great for about 5 years. Still everyday, multiples on the weekends. She initiated as much as I did. This was a high sex drive woman, and I knew it. Sometimes I almost had to beat her down with a stick to leave me alone. Lol

In all the good times and the few rough times, we got along great for the most part. I promised myself I would never make the same mistakes I made in my previous marriage, and there were many. We were young, dumb, broke, but none of that mattered because it was us against the world. Everyone else be damned. After about 4 years of marriage my wife decides that she wants more kids. Now my mind had not changed, but as she pressed more, I gave in. I would give this woman the world if she let me, and so I told her ok. I still wasn't ready to change my mind, and feared that babies would change things a lot. Boy is that the understatement of the century. But I went ahead with it. Happy wife, happy life and all the garbage.

So sure enough, she got pregnant with our middle child. (Yes my stepson is my child. He has never met his sperm donor, and I would die for that boy just like my own blood. He is my child.) Life got kinda crazy. Young kids in the house and all will make things nutty. All in all, life was grand. Sex never missed a beat. She's the one that initiated before her 6 week check up. So here we are, and all of a sudden 9 months later we find out she's pregnant again. We didn't plan this one, oh ****! So, we soldier on. Life is still good and we make our plans for the arrival of our 3rd child. She wants have a tubal after the birth but doesn't want to to spend an extra 3 days in the hospital. I did get a vasectomy years later and now she's free of the poison of BC. Ok, I understand that and I'm ok with it. We will figure something out. She goes on the BC patch for a while, but has reactions to it. At this point, sex is still great. We are attentive to each other and in the moment and we both orgasm every time. (Yes it is possible and yes the human body has reactions that can not be faked to prove the occurrence of an orgasm.) It's at this point she goes on the Depo shot. This is the start of what I refer to as the dark ages of my marriage. 

So, it doesn't take long for the Depo shot to start working it's horrible destruction. (Overall, the shot turned her into a zombie and for many years I wondered where my wife went.) We were getting along good, but she was at times a little snappy. I chalked that up to the changes in our family and the pressure from 3 small children. 1 infant, 1 toddler and a 6 year old. It's a lot, and I could sympathize with her. I tried to help out as much as I could and do my share, but it's hard on a woman. Now we lived away from any kind of help, as her parents helped with the oldest when we were close to them. Now we have to figure out child care and she wants to stay home with the kids. Now she has always been OK about having a job, but she really wanted to stay home. I was against it from the beginning. I didn't want a stay at home mom. We could work different shifts to make up the difference and keep the kids with us. It would be more work, but worth it. So for about a year and a half we worked different shifts. Her early and me afternoons. We still got along pretty great, but it was a strain. Sex was dropping and we did try to come together as we could. The depo shot had by now made her period almost completely disappear. She thought it was the best thing since the wheel. She was changing though, but I just chalked it up to the stress of life. She wanted a house. Not a big deal to me as I didn't care where we lived as long as we were together. So, she got her house. She picked it all out with some feedback from me financially, but this was what she wanted and I would give her the world, so she got it. She couldn't do any wrong in my eyes. I just wanted to make her happy. Now, we move in and get settled and she gives up her job to take care of the kids. I didn't want her to quit, but she did. Her reasoning was that we would spend as much on childcare as she made and there were no babysitters she trusted. She made a good point on the money part, but I still didn't agree. So, there I am with 5 mouths to feed and the only one working. We started to fight more. She was crabbier, and wrapped up in her SAHM world. I was kind of on the outside looking in at times. Sex was getting further between. 

Life wasn't as good, but I loved her and she loved me even if she was grumpy at times. The sun rose and set because of her, in my eyes at least. She was what mattered most. I'm no angel, not even close. This went in for about another year and the sex and affection start to dwindle a little more. Then I royally ****ed up and had a very short EA. I didn't try to hide it and it did feel good to have a woman gushing over me. It's the single stupidest thing I have ever done in my life and I carry that guilt to this day. I had my chances for sex with that woman, but every time I did my thoughts went back to my kids and wife. What the **** are you doing, you ****ing moron was all I could think. Needless to say, my wife found out and to say she was pissed was an understatement. We fought, she cried. I played tough guy and shoved my thoughts and feelings down. There were times when I thought I would get the divorce book thrown at me, but we stayed together. It doesn't mean she forgave me. I deserved everything she threw at me and more. 

I became an open book. She was notified of my comings and goings and if I was more than a minute late I would catch hell. I deserved it. I took everything she dished out. She was still my world and she was owed that much at a minimum. Time moved on. I got a better job. We moved and bought a brand new house in a bigger town. I thought it was to expensive, but she thought she could babysit for other people like she had started to do in our old town. I just wanted to make her happy. One night I broke down crying and begged her to forgive me for what I did to her. I hurt all the time for the mistake I made and I couldn't take it anymore. That plea fell on deaf ears, but she did soften a little. Sex was nonexistent. She was always snappy with me. Other than my children, life sucked. Those were my consequences though. Long story short, the house was to much. Her babysitting didn't pan out and it was just too much when I lost my job. About the time that we lost the house I found a job working on the road doing construction. I figured if life sucked this bad maybe giving her some space would make things better. So I started the new job after a discussion of the situation. We agreed to buy the rental house from her parents and we moved back to my hometown. I have ate some crow, but that is one of the most humiliating moments of my life.

Up to this point, we had never spent a night apart. If life was hard before, it sucked even worse now. If I didn't call when she thought I should call, I would catch hell. I continued to walk the straight and narrow and just kept my nose to the grindstone. I became a hermit. My family was my sole purpose, but my job became my mistress. It's at this point I became a workaholic. My goal was to spend a little money as possible as I had a family to provide for. Truth be known, I felt that punishment was the least I deserved. There wasn't a week that went by that I didn't get asked what ***** was I ****ing in the town I was in at least once. I kept my mouth shut and kept my head down. I had a family to support. I wasn't home much and even if I was, sex was almost nonexistent. For a about 2 years we had sex less than a dozen times. I kept being a hermit and took care of myself when I couldn't think straight, which for a everyday kind of person doesn't take much.

One day by chance I was home when my wife came back from her annual check up. She had a bunch of supplements and she said that the doctor said she needed to take them because the depo shot causes some issues. Her other doctor didn't inform her of these problems. That got me curious and I started doing some research. I then realized the damage that this drug had done to her, along with the ignorant crap that I pulled. I showed her my research and tried to convince her to change BC. It fell on deaf ears. About a year later after a particularly nasty argument and insinuations about my fidelity to her, I blew my top. I have never had sex with another woman other than my wife during the time I have been married to her,and I had enough of the accusations. I called my mother-in-law and told her that when I got back to town that I was filing for divorce. My mother-in-law asked if there was another woman, that really set me off, but coming from her view I could understand it. My wife calls me bawling and asks me not to file. We talked and after a few days I backed down. I couldn't stand the thought of someone else raising my kids. I wouldn't allow it. And life continued to be hell.

I was making really good money and changed to a different industry within the construction field. I kept on keeping on. One day she threw an insinuation about me screwing around on her and I went off and told her that I had had enough and if she ever said anything like that again she would get hit with papers so fast her great grandkids would feel it. I never have heard another accusation. About a year later would be our 14th wedding anniversary. I had had enough of the fighting and arguing. I wanted to try and make peace somehow. My wedding band had broke from wear and tear and I wanted us to get new ones. She didn't want to, so I came up with the idea to renew our vows so that gave us a good reason to get new ones. Dumb idea. So I go all out. A make arrangements at the best bed and breakfast in Dallas. They had their own little garden where they had regular weddings and I made all the arrangements to have a private ceremony. I flew her to where I was working and got lucky with the weather in that it was really windy that week, so I was only working half a day and got an extra long weekend. Everything went exactly to plan. The ceremony was perfect. Everything was perfect. We had sex one time that week. Ugh. The day she flew home we went to a wax museum. Now she has always had a thing for Johnny Deep, and it this wax museum they just happened to have a wax statue of him. Her words were "there's my man!" I wanted to puke. (She swears she said "There's the man" like that freaking matters.) So I stood there in the awkwardness while she stared. I wondered off and she eventually followed. We finished and I took her to the airport and got a goodbye peck and she took off. All told, that week cost me $4000 and my dignity and the single most humiliating moment of my life. I swore that I would never do anything like that again for her, and I haven't That was the beginning of the end for me.

Fast forward a year and I find myself in a new job making even better money. My mistress (my career) had been very good to me. I had finally found something the wife liked to do 2 years before and has spent a bunch to get her started on it and the payoff was enough to motivate her to do better. I get through the first couple months of the new job and got settled. The stress was high, but rewarding. The last time I was home, we didn't connect and it had been better than a couple of months since we had. She was grumpy and I just snapped. It was like a switch. I was over it. I told her that I wouldn't divorce her, but I wouldn't put up with her crap anymore. I would work on myself and I would become the best human I could be and that I didn't need her. I would be an excellent father by myself and send my boys plane tickets to come see me on the road. I would take my home time with the boys were I was at. She was free to do as she damned well pleased. (Thanks TAM! I got the idea from you.) We didn't speak for a month. One of the things I had harped on her to do was change her birth control. I knew without a doubt that it was the depo shot causing her to operate like a zombie. When we finally did talk she told me that she had an appointment to have it changed. 10 years to the date of my youngest son's birth, she changed it. It was too little too late for all I gave a damn. It took about 6 months for it to all leave her system. One of the requirements for me to even consider working things out was for her to smash her pirates movies that she watched over and over again every single week and to smash the plate we got during our wedding renewal. I told her the reasons why. As much as she didn't want to, she did it. I promised myself that at our 20 year anniversary if we had more bad years than good, that I would walk away when the youngest turned 18. When I made that promise, the bad was way ahead of the good. 

We were getting along better Sex got more frequent. Then it started to get better. We fought one day and she tried a coffee cup at me and screamed at me that I ****ed that broad years ago. She finally forgave me after 10 years. I wish I could learn to fully forgive myself. Life was starting to look up. Then I took her to a Black Sabbath concert about 6 months later. This is may favorite band in the planet and in my worst moments in life that music is what got me through. I drove 12 hours home from a job to pick her up and another 8 hours to get to the concert. Literally half was across the country. From Laredo Texas to Indianapolis Indiana. We went to the concert and in the way there about 39 minutes away we are talking and she makes this comment about flashing her tits at the stage. Que another puke moment! Needless to say I didn't enjoy one of the few things in life like I should have. This also drive me over the edge. I don't know why I put so much importance on this one event. I guess it all ties back to my childhood and Sabbath being there when no one else was. Yes, that doesn't make a lot of since to probably anyone, but call it a security blanket. People put attachment on things when they have little hope. I digress. 

We had a blow up over it and the next 2 years I was a real son of a ***** to her. I could be an ass before, but this was in another level. I went into a blind drunken rage at the drop of a hat and would stay there for days. The depression was so deep that I would mire in it and wallow in the self loathing. I would just get lost in anger and swirl it and let it engulf me, and I would let it brew for weeks until it damn near drive me nuts. It was 14 years of a ****ty childhood and 10 years of a hopeless marriage all trying to come out at once. For 38 years I held it all in and it was coming out regardless. I damn near got to the point of hating my wife. I told her that I had put her on a pedestal for years and that she was no longer on it and never would be. 2 years is all it took for her to want to divorce. We didn't talk for awhile, but somehow made it through it. I finally burnt all the anger out. I just last year gave it all away. It served no purpose anymore. 

It's been 3 years since and we get along now better than we have since before we had kids for the most part. The sex is great and we connect better. We still have our occasional fights, but all in all things are alright. June will be 20 years and we will be at break even on good vs bad years. I'm hoping for for a reset, and maybe the good will out weight the mediocre. It won't be for a lack of effort. I'm not longer vagina crazy, not for hers, not for anyone's. Don't get me wrong, I love sex with my wife, but I will never sacrifice my self respect for sex. She initiates more than I do, although I'm slowly getting better. Self rejection after years of rejection is a real thing. 

I would never tell someone to do the things I have done. You have to make your own way though things, but I myself have learned a lot from TAM. I learned from people I didn't expect to.

I know that desire can not be magically produced. You either have it or you don't. It can however, be stimulated to be above your normal base line. We all have our issues, but know that not taking care to nourish that which is important to you, will cause it to die. I can't assume to speak for anyone but myself, but sex with my wife has never once been just about sex or just getting a nut. She is at the forefront in every session. Sex is not the most important thing in marriage, but I certainly feel that it's one of the main pillars and the only thing that defines a romantic relationship from a friendship. 

The saddest part to this whole story is that we will never reach our true potential as a couple. I won't allow myself to love that hard or that deeply again. The kind of love that so deep it hurts. Never again. 

All of that being said, my wife has a perspective of her own, and while we may not see eye to eye, my side doesn't make her side any less valid from her perspective. 

I want to thank all of the strangers here at TAM for the advise they have given over the years. Even the ones I don't agree with. Keep posting, you just might help someone. This is my big give back and hopefully it will help someone. If nothing else to learn from my mistakes. 

Now you know the rest of the story.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I find it sad that you seem incapable of looking at an overview of this situation. This has nothing to do with my sex drive. It has to do with your husbands sex drive and your sex drive. They don't match.
> 
> Now your "compromise" about sex was that you were a 2 a week girl if that. He is a high drive guy. So your "compromise" was to stay at two, that is not a compromise, it is an ultimatum and you don't want to see that.
> 
> ...



I hear you. I understand some of what you are saying. I don't know what it's like to be rejected or to not feel loved; I am very lucky my husband has always desired me. Everyone has their own opinions and outlooks on life; that's why I came on here. I need to wrap my head around why he did what he did to me. And I'm starting to get it, at least what lead up to it. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does help me.

I just have to say, I understand that putting everything into the kids could be detrimental to any relationship; but to suggest that someone throws in the towel on their special needs child because they can't be helped anymore is a little much; for what? So my hubby can be sexually fulfilled? Even he would never ask that. He loves me and our children more than that. 

I think intimacy (at least for me) is way more than sex. It can be a glance from across the room; looking at the other person and knowing what they're thinking; holding hands; going for a walk alone; foot rub; watching a favorite show together, etc... you get my point. I can't explain it, but I don't need to have sex to feel close to my husband. It comes from so many other places. Is that one place? Of course, but not all of it. I and don't judge my happiness or contentment with my marriage on how many times I got laid the last month. Obviously a lot of men and women just simply disagree on this point. And that's OK 

You did come off as a little angry in your original response, so that's why I brought up your sex drive. You obviously feel like defending my husband and that's fine. I came here to truly get other viewpoints and perspectives, I NEED to understand what his motivations were in order to get through this. If it leads to forgiveness, then I'll go from there with the whole mismatched sex drive situation. Of course I have to address it, but it's a moot point if I can't even look at him right now.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I think intimacy (at least for me) is way more than sex. It can be a glance from across the room; looking at the other person and knowing what they're thinking; holding hands; going for a walk alone; foot rub; watching a favorite show together, etc... you get my point. I can't explain it, but I don't need to have sex to feel close to my husband. It comes from so many other places. Is that one place? Of course, but not all of it. I and don't judge my happiness or contentment with my marriage on how many times I got laid the last month. Obviously a lot of men and women just simply disagree on this point. And that's OK


BB, 
Your interpreting intimacy in your language and that is totally fine, that is the language you understand, but this is where many and i mean many relationships go astray and fail, and mine no better, NEVER ASSUME this is the same language your husband speaks, his version of intimacy is different (porn aside, video taping aside for a sec), just because once a week is good enough for you, you can't automatically expect that is good for him as well...that assumption clause is where things go afoul...never ever make assumptions with out talking it out. whether you chose to accept it or not, its a subliminal power play in the relationship which you own. 

Let me give you an example...let's say your a coffee drinker and you look forward to a great cup of coffee every morning, at the the beginning your husband loves coffee as well and he makes the coffee for you every morning, but over time he say "honey i really don't need coffee as much so eventually he makes it so you get coffee once a week" Since he is the coffeemaker at home you have to live with that, you get upset but concur but that does not stop you from thinking about coffee all the time...smelling coffee from other people's cup, you watch coffee commercials and think about all the time, because your denied of it becomes prevalent in your head, you pass coffee shops and think god i want that so badly but that would be cheating...

I know that example is a bit absurd but can you understand what the mind can do to someone whose only desire is to have their language of intimacy with you be squashed...I love my wife, and hungered for her throughout our marriage...only to be met with one rejection after another...you ave no idea what it feels like to be rejected because you wife thinks vacuuming the house before bed was more important than you...over time, i lost interested, i went back to school and got more degrees, my weekends are filled studying writing working out...and none of it with my wife...i have enough degrees to teach an entire high school alone, but what i really wanted was my wife. 

What he did was wrong...but in his mind (again i am not justifying it, i am explaining it) he would rather have some of you than none of you.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I think it's sad you are considering divorce over something like this - especially after all the years you've been together. You might (or might not) want to try to take a higher level view. You can't look at him currently ? With your kid situation he's very likely the only guy who will look at you and make any effort. Maybe alone and raising the kids / caring for the special needs one mostly on your own is your preference. Getting or giving any sex won't be an issue, as well as any male attention. You divorce him and it's pretty much guaranteed. 

Please think about it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Wanting/desiring sex is different from 'needing' sex. That is why I had put the apostrophes around the word need. When one partner is pressuring the other to the point of making that person's life miserable and divorce is brought up then, yeah, see a therapist. 

There are (at least) 3 members on this thread who are high-drive and all 3 had less than ideal childhoods.

There is a male member of this board who divorced his wife because she constantly pressured him for sex. It is an equal opportunity problem.

When both partners desire physical intimacy 24/7 - good on them! Just remember to come up for air and food.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> He will on occasion. But he works long hours so I feel bad asking. It's tough because being a homemaker is what I signed up for; but sometimes he doesn't get it when he gets to clock out at 6, my clock is still running until 10 or 11. Anyway, when it builds up and I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown, then I have no choice but to ask for help. He's a wonderful father, so I am very lucky for that.


The men in my family take a nap when they get home from work for about an hour then they are ready and rarin to go. My grandfather, dad, and husband do this. Once they get up it takes them a few minutes to wake up and get their barrings, but after that they are able to help with whatever needs to be done. Maybe the two of you could work something out like that. Maybe your husband could lie down for 45 minutes to an hour and then you could take a nap while he starts dinner. 

If your husband likes to cook perhaps you could do the meal planning and get the groceries. If he naps and you get the ingredients out, he could cook the meal while you are napping.

I know this might not work for you, but I believe in finding what does work and making it happen. There is something that works for you. Being a homemaker doesn't have to mean that you are on 24/7 and your husband is only on for his shift at work. That is not fair and frankly when I became a homemaker 24 years ago, I made that clear to my husband.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I hear you. I understand some of what you are saying. I don't know what it's like to be rejected or to not feel loved; I am very lucky my husband has always desired me. Everyone has their own opinions and outlooks on life; that's why I came on here. I need to wrap my head around why he did what he did to me. And I'm starting to get it, at least what lead up to it. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it does help me.
> 
> I just have to say, I understand that putting everything into the kids could be detrimental to any relationship; but to suggest that someone throws in the towel on their special needs child because they can't be helped anymore is a little much; for what? So my hubby can be sexually fulfilled? Even he would never ask that. He loves me and our children more than that.
> 
> ...


This is the best most balanced thing that you have written yet, IMHO. Now whether you divorce or stay together, there are things that you have to do for yourself, no matter what. 

The video and sex in general aside, there is something that you have to be aware of. When we are care givers, to a child, a spouse, a parent, whoever... you have to look out for yourself. While this sounds counter intuitive, think about it for a minute. 

Your primary role, as a woman, is not that of a woman, not even that of an individual, not that of a wife, your primary role is that of MOM, and with a special needs child, that is by a factor of 10. 

So it is without question, that you have neglected to some extent, your marriage, your husband, and even your other children to an extent, because the majority of you effort has to go to your special needs child. I am not saying conscious, or even serious neglect, but in reality, something has got to give, and you can't NOT take care of your special needs child, because that child is totally dependent on you. You can argue if you want, but while I have not had a SN child, I was a caregiver to my wife. 

But you know what, what about you? What have you done for you lately. Money is tight, small town, I get that, but the fact is, somewhere there is a baby sitter that can care for your SN child and look after the others while you or you and hubby go to a movie, even once a month, maybe even twice a month. 

Before you say that you can't, let's be real, you can. You think that deep down you are the only person in the world that can take care of your child the way that you want it done. But you know what, an OK job for 3 hours while you get out of the house is actually OK. 

Because you need to take care of yourself, you need to take care of your marriage if you want it, and if you want him you need to take care of your husband. 

But most of all, you have to take care of yourself. Because if you go down, everyone goes down, everyone. 

In my situation, while different specifically from yours, it was a lot like yours. We lose ourselves in the role of care taker and in my case I was caretaker for a wife, 3 kids, sole bread winner, and on and on. 

I finally understood that what I was trying to do alone was insane, but it took me having a stroke from stress to actually wake me up. I thought that if I did not do it, it would not get done, it sure would not get done the way that I wanted. 

Well, once it almost killed me, I started to realize that I was crazy for living that way, and some things would have to wait until I got to it. 

Whatever happens with your marriage, you have to take care of you first and everyone else second. While it may sound selfish at first if you think about it, you have to be healthy in every way in order to do what you are trying to do. 

Give yourself a break super woman...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> Frankly, any person who claims they 'need' sex 7 times a week needs to get to a therapist to figure out why they are so empty inside and how they can get through their days without pressuring their spouse to fill that void. That places an unfair burden on the spouse. Just my opinion.


I am an every day woman. And for the record, I had a loving, happy childhood with parents who have been married over 50 years. It is just how I am wired. When I was in my sexless marriage I had major depression, anxiety, and was physically ill at times. I don't just "like sex," I DO NEED sex. Period. And I am not damaged. I am just me.

Some people don't. I get it. Just make sure you choose a partner who also doesn't need it.

And as far as epistles on the life of someone who is not the OP.....they are not the OP. I get it. We think all women should work because otherwise they are mooches (because hey, MY wife was a mooch). Nope. I taught special needs children. It is HARD to be a parent of a special needs child, especially with other siblings.

Extrapolating from one's own situation to make rules for everyone is called projecting.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> And as far as epistles on the life of someone who is not the OP.....they are not the OP. I get it. We think all women should work because otherwise they are mooches (because hey, MY wife was a mooch). Nope. I taught special needs children. It is HARD to be a parent of a special needs child, especially with other siblings.
> 
> Extrapolating from one's own situation to make rules for everyone is called projecting.


 I made my original comment about stay at homes in regards to some of the outlandish crap I read at the beginning of her thread. It was blunt and harsh, to that I will admit. I won't apologize for my opinion. I could have said it differently however. I realize I may have ruffled some feathers. 

My reasoning actually has more to do with being a mooch from both perspectives. The reasons are multiple. The first being that the worst mooches I have personally ever known were men. Unfortunately, I have met more than a few. My sperm donor (POS father) was the poster child. He was for all that he could get. He was a perfect example of what not to be in every single way. 

A person should always have the ability to financially support themselves and barring extenuating circumstances and agreements, show a clearly defined selfishness. In this case, I will always support a woman being able to support themselves as a way to get out. The other part of that is in the case of a controlling husband. One of the most common threads on TAM is that of a woman trapped in a unfulfilled/abusive relationship and no clear way out because of a lack of income. It's all very sad to say the least. 

The second part of my reasoning is the the male perspective. That of the guy busting his ass to bring home the bacon to an unsupported and ungrateful woman that lays around the house doing jack. This is the perspective I believe everyone read my post from. It's true that this happens as well and is fairly common from what I have seen here. TAM is not a perportional representation of humanity though. 

Then there is the perspective of the faniily divorce complex. The man usually gets ass raped. Full stop. It's far better than say 20 or 30 Yeats ago, but it's in absolutely no way equitable in every state. When we finally have uniform 50/50 custody and true 50/50 split of assets I believe that we will see far more men file for divorce. 

That is the reasoning behind my opinion of no stay at home anything. Now, for those that it works for, great. No, it's not want I wanted in my marriage and never has been, but I have made the best of a marriage quirk that I did not want. However, my wife has never been lazy in regards to the children and the home. I fully acknowledge her contributions and my children are a testament to her duty as a mother. The one thing we have always agreed on is how to raise the children. I may have wanted a 50/50 partnership (for reasons I won't get into) in all things rather than the our current arrangement, but I make do with what I have and try to be grateful for what I do have. 

I can also empathize with being a care giver. I had to take care of a bio-dad in his old age that I hated with every fiber of my being. Showing grace to one's enemies is a humbling thing. 

As far as projection, it happens, we have to be cognizant of of it. They are an unfortunate side affect of opinions, which is what the board is based on. No poster is 100% objective. 

If I offended in my original comment, I do apologize. 

Betrayed, for what is worth, I truly do wish you the best. I sincerely mean that.your family has a very tough road.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> Now you know the rest of the story.


Thank you for sharing your story! It's not easy laying everything out there for complete strangers to read. But I'm guessing it's somewhat therapeutic? It has been for me. I really appreciate it!!

I guess one of things I take away from your story is I noticed that you were always your happiest when having a lot of sex (intimacy). And I get it. THAT is what's important to YOU. But on that same note, what makes you happy (in any part of life) doesn't mean that is what is the be all end all for someone else. And again, that is okay.

Compromise in any relationship, dealing with any issue (not just sex) is the key, I think. You and your wife are lucky it worked out for you. I'm glad you stuck around through the bad stuff to see it through.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> If I offended in my original comment, I do apologize.
> 
> Betrayed, for what is worth, I truly do wish you the best. I sincerely mean that.your family has a very tough road.


Thank you. You have helped me, as have many on here have. I have been stuck in my way of thinking and I really thought posting on here I'd get a ton of "leave him, he's an idiot" & "don't ever trust him again", and surprisingly I got something so much better than that. I really do understand (as much as I can) a bit more of the male perspective. Which can only help me whether I stay with my husband or not.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> The men in my family take a nap when they get home from work for about an hour then they are ready and rarin to go. My grandfather, dad, and husband do this. Once they get up it takes them a few minutes to wake up and get their barrings, but after that they are able to help with whatever needs to be done. Maybe the two of you could work something out like that. Maybe your husband could lie down for 45 minutes to an hour and then you could take a nap while he starts dinner.
> 
> If your husband likes to cook perhaps you could do the meal planning and get the groceries. If he naps and you get the ingredients out, he could cook the meal while you are napping.
> 
> I know this might not work for you, but I believe in finding what does work and making it happen. There is something that works for you. Being a homemaker doesn't have to mean that you are on 24/7 and your husband is only on for his shift at work. That is not fair and frankly when I became a homemaker 24 years ago, I made that clear to my husband.


This is a fantastic idea. Thanks for the insight. He doesn't cook, but I bet if we tried hard enough we could come up with some solutions where I don't feel like I'm always in charge and "on". It's so hard to then unwind at the end of the day.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Compromise in any relationship


Please define what this means for you.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

If there's a bright side it's that he desires you enough to want to jerk off to his own wife on video and not porn with other women. The truth, unfortunately, is that a lot of men in his situation share those videos with other men. They exchange wife vids online. Hopefully this isn't the case. If it is, hopefully your face isn't in them.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

2&out said:


> I think it's sad you are considering divorce over something like this - especially after all the years you've been together. You might (or might not) want to try to take a higher level view. You can't look at him currently ? With your kid situation he's very likely the only guy who will look at you and make any effort. Maybe alone and raising the kids / caring for the special needs one mostly on your own is your preference. Getting or giving any sex won't be an issue, as well as any male attention. You divorce him and it's pretty much guaranteed.
> 
> Please think about it.



I wasn't going to respond to this comment, but the more I thought about it I had to. I have to say how sad it is that you would actually say to someone whom you never met, saw, etc... that I should stay with my husband no matter what he did, because I am guaranteed to not find anyone else  Why? Because I have "baggage"? Give me a break. I'm a strong, independent woman. I would rather be alone than with someone out of necessity. What kind of life would that be for anyone? I may have some body insecurity issues (probably more that that too) but I'm way too proud to stay with someone if I truly feel like I can't even like them anymore. No matter what happens, I'll always love him; that's not the issue. I have to be able to look at him and like him, like who he is, and not see what he did.

Have you ever been betrayed on any level? Cheating is not the only relationship ending betrayal. And I've noticed A LOT of the men on this thread just can't seem to understand that video taping me in secret while I was having sex was probably one of the biggest betrayals there is. It sucks that some men feel because I give myself to my husband, that I belong to him. He had no right, he had no consent.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> If there's a bright side it's that he desires you enough to want to jerk off to his own wife on video and not porn with other women. The truth, unfortunately, is that a lot of men in his situation share those videos with other men. They exchange wife vids online. Hopefully this isn't the case. If it is, hopefully your face isn't in them.


Unfortunately, I will never know. I hope he was telling the truth, as unfortunately my face (and everything else) is totally in them. There is NOTHING left to the imagination 

I never even heard about this "pay to play" type of porn swapping. My God, why can't regular porn be enough?!? 

I'm teetering on a lie detector. Not sure how to even go about it. I guess I can't even begin to think about forgiving him until I know what he really did with the recordings. Obviously even if he just used them, it's still weird to me. But not knowing I think will hinder my trying to trust him again. This whole thing sucks.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Pay for the lie detector test. Get it done. Ask 3 questions
1) have you ever shared the tapes
2) have you destroyed every tape.
3) have you ever had sex with anyone else while married.

Be prepared and willing to answer question number 3.

If this will give you a little peace, then use it as a tool to move forward and know what you are forgiving. Polygraph are useful for direct yes and no questions. Asking how some one feels should not be part of the test.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Cheating is not the only relationship ending betrayal. And I've noticed A LOT of the men on this thread just can't seem to understand that video taping me in secret while I was having sex was probably one of the biggest betrayals there is. It sucks that some men feel because I give myself to my husband, that I belong to him. He had no right, he had no consent.


This is the root of the problem. Even if he is your husband he had no right to tape your activities without your consent. This is a terrible betrayal of your marriage, it takes away your trust and security in your marriage and in him. Here you are trying to do things to make him happier and to make your marriage more exciting and he decides with premeditation to tape it. I understand the hurt that what you thought was a spontaneous and exciting moment of giving yourself to him, he turned it into something gross. Now you don't know if you can ever trust him again to ever give yourself to him like that again. The trust of knowing he will have your best interest at heart at a moment like this is gone. 

I don't know if you can ever get over this. This is your new reality. You are going to have to rethink how you see your husband and how to move on from this. How will you be able to forgive him?

Is part of your anger and betrayal has to do with the fact that normally you would never have done some of those things? And the one night you did, he went and taped it? Know that you did nothing wrong or bad. What ever you do in your marital bed is always good and you have no blame. 

My advice is that if you are a praying woman, pray about this. And speak to someone one about this. Someone you can cry with and be angry with. Someone you can feel safe with. I wish you and your family well.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I wasn't going to respond to this comment, but the more I thought about it I had to. I have to say how sad it is that you would actually say to someone whom you never met, saw, etc... that I should stay with my husband no matter what he did, because I am guaranteed to not find anyone else  Why? Because I have "baggage"? Give me a break. I'm a strong, independent woman. I would rather be alone than with someone out of necessity. What kind of life would that be for anyone? I may have some body insecurity issues (probably more that that too) but I'm way too proud to stay with someone if I truly feel like I can't even like them anymore. No matter what happens, I'll always love him; that's not the issue. I have to be able to look at him and like him, like who he is, and not see what he did.
> 
> Have you ever been betrayed on any level? Cheating is not the only relationship ending betrayal. And I've noticed A LOT of the men on this thread just can't seem to understand that video taping me in secret while I was having sex was probably one of the biggest betrayals there is. It sucks that some men feel because I give myself to my husband, that I belong to him. He had no right, he had no consent.


Kids or no kids, perfect body or not, I would have great respect for any woman who refused to rug sweep such a personal violation, and not accept such an act of disrespect from the one who is supposed to care for, and protect them, the most. 

I have known plenty with all the exterior attractiveness any man could possibly hope for, but without the inner strength to stand up as an independent human being, they are completely unattractive, even for a quick roll in the hay, let alone a lifetime partnership. 

As a man, I fully understand your recoil against the betrayal. No matter what you may have contributed to the less than optimal state of your marriage, nothing justifies such an invasion of your most private and intimate act. Nothing. Period. Yes, you may need to reflect on how you may have contributed, but that in no way justifies his action any more than saying a girl who has a few too many glasses of wine deserves to be raped. 

And to be clear, I say this not only as a man, but as a man who, from what i can tell, has spent much of his marriage where your husband has; as the passionate, virile man on the wrong side of the typical no-compromise lack of sex. So to all who think there needs to be more focus on why hubby did this, I say bunk. No matter how badly I may have felt sexually neglected through the years, I can't even fathom of being so angry at her, or so ignorant of her feelings, as to do such a thing. And to hide it from her? Only makes it worse. Lastly, if discovered, I would fully expect her to kick me to the curb as an appropriate response. 

OP, I have no advice as to whether you should stay or go. Only you can do the cost/benefit or risk/reward calculation for that. I just want you to know that I respect your standing up for yourself (and for common decency), whatever path you take and fully expect that if you stay, you would do well to demand and enforce some strong boundaries. I wish you a speedy arrival on whatever is the best path for you. If nothing else, hopefully getting to do some anonymous venting has helped. Don't let the victim blamers get to you. However you may have contributed, you didn't contribute to _this_. Plenty of us men get that.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

musicftw07 said:


> Please define what this means for you.



I guess to me, compromise would be a two way street. It is a give and take, I get it. But when I'm giving, giving, giving (and no, not sex wise...but just life in general: kids, house, blah blah blah) literally 24/7, and you expect sex 5-7 days a week...I see that as you're taking and not giving. I have nothing to give, I've given it all away. Sex is more than just the act (to me). It can start two days beforehand; my foreplay is you take the kids away from the house for a few hours every so often, so I can hear myself think. My foreplay is you can clear the dinner dishes and fill the dishwasher while I rest. Now, I'm not saying that never happens, it does....I ask for it when I absolutely need it. But, if it were a more regular habit, where I didn't have to almost be having a nervous breakdown to ask for it, I'd have more "me" time, then I'm guessing we'd probably have more "we" time. If I'm so tired that I can't keep my eyes open, what fun is that?!?

I know I have to eventually deal with my low sex drive, whether I stay in this relationship or not. But I've always had it, so the hubby expecting it to skyrocket or be the same as it was when we were 20 (especially after 4 kids) is just sabotage IMO. Anyway, as I've said before, it's all a moot point if I can't find a way to forgive him


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you for sharing your story! It's not easy laying everything out there for complete strangers to read. But I'm guessing it's somewhat therapeutic? It has been for me. I really appreciate it!!
> 
> I guess one of things I take away from your story is I noticed that you were always your happiest when having a lot of sex (intimacy). And I get it. THAT is what's important to YOU. But on that same note, what makes you happy (in any part of life) doesn't mean that is what is the be all end all for someone else. And again, that is okay.
> 
> Compromise in any relationship, dealing with any issue (not just sex) is the key, I think. You and your wife are lucky it worked out for you. I'm glad you stuck around through the bad stuff to see it through.


Therapeutic? Yes and no. It took me quite a few years to be able to get to this point for a multitude of reasons. I actually lurked here for a few years before I joined. If I had to guess, I have been around here since about late 2010 maybe 2011, but I only read. It's taken may years to read the coping with infidelity area without resentment raging. Thank you for your kind words.

I'm glad you picked up on the sex part of the story. That you didn't get the full meaning behind it shows my lack of communication skills. Yes, as another poster mentioned, I am a person that had a less than ideal childhood. I also have a high drive. Those fact are actually quite independent of each other. The childhood lends itself to other reactions and reasoning, but it is actually independent of the sex drive. It's taken some introspection and studying to come to that conclusion. I have done my best thinking after I found a post here at TAM to question my reasons why.

The highlighting of the sex in my story was to try to show you that in some cases, and would I would argue all, that sex is the barometer of the relationship. Where the sex leads, the marriage usually follows. The goes for high drive, low drives, and all in between. It also is relevant to mismatched drives.

The second reason was to show that even in ithe best cases, things happen that we can not account for and that at times we just have to find a way to pick up the pieces. It's not the picking up the pieces that hard, but finding the right way.

The part about my wife having a different perspective was to acknowledge that we all don't look at things the same way, and that's OK. I am fully cognizant that your drive is not the same as mine and it was never my intent to indicate that my personal experience would correlate to anyone. I also specifically mentioned desire and the fact that it can't magically be manufactured from nowhere. I have had my drive drop due to relationship issues. I can empathize with drive issues to a point. 

Compromise is in my opinion one of the other pillars of marriage. Without it, even the most easy going of people will eventually get fed up no matter the amount of undying love. It is unfortunate that sometimes that compromise must be forced from one party to the other in some cases. That's compromise in any and sometimes all things, by the way.

We are middle age now and the kids are starting to take off. We haven't completely made it. It's my hope that we do, but I am not as eager to walk through hell and back as I once was. I might just stick my hand in the fire and see how I feel, then make the decision.

Your journey is actually much harder in my opinion and the deck is stacked against your marriage. It's my hopes that the two of you are able to work together to come to a better place in your marriage. It's my hope that you will be able to get through the video ordeal and to put boundaries in place and work to a better place.

It's your life in the end and only you can live it. The most important thing I have learned from TAM is to take all reasonable comments and opinions into account. It has helped me to be more open to alternative ideas and not so defensive in my positions. This is a good place even with all of its issues.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> musicftw07 said:
> 
> 
> > Please define what this means for you.
> ...


Do you perceive your H as giving nothing?


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

brooklynAnn said:


> This is the root of the problem. Even if he is your husband he had no right to tape your activities without your consent. This is a terrible betrayal of your marriage, it takes away your trust and security in your marriage and in him. Here you are trying to do things to make him happier and to make your marriage more exciting and he decides with premeditation to tape it. I understand the hurt that what you thought was a spontaneous and exciting moment of giving yourself to him, he turned it into something gross. Now you don't know if you can ever trust him again to ever give yourself to him like that again. The trust of knowing he will have your best interest at heart at a moment like this is gone.
> 
> I don't know if you can ever get over this. This is your new reality. You are going to have to rethink how you see your husband and how to move on from this. How will you be able to forgive him?
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. It's funny how a bunch of strangers can help, but you all have. 

He actually recorded us over several times "to get the best one" as he put it. I didn't do anything that I wouldn't normally do, but when you think you're just two people alone, intimate, it's freeing. What happens behind closed doors is suppose to be safe. And now (for me) it's not anymore, whether he shared the videos or not. I actually ripped apart the bedroom after I found out. There was an odd pen on his nightstand that I hadn't seen before so I took it apart. It was just a pen; but can you imagine feeling like you have to do that?!? Everything is suspect in my own home. I hate walking in my bedroom now. So the anger is really just the betrayal. I'm not embarrassed by what we did, unless of course it is out there on the internet for someone else to see. Then I'd probably just crawl under a rock.

I'm going to seek therapy for me alone. He keeps pushing for us to both go to a marriage therapist. Maybe in time we will; but I have to see if I can get through this. Get back to liking him if I can, because I truly dislike him to the core right now. If I hadn't seen the videos with my own eyes, I'd never have believed he'd do this. He's not who I thought he was, and that's so sad to me.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TheBohannons said:


> Pay for the lie detector test. Get it done. Ask 3 questions


Or better yet, save your money for things that actually work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

musicftw07 said:


> Do you perceive your H as giving nothing?


No, not at all. I even said so. He'll help if I ask. I guess, not having to ask all the time would be awesome. Just like if he didn't have to ask me for sex all the time, if I just initiated it more, that would be awesome to him. But, that is neither here nor there. I do get the point you're making.....I could have compromised a bit more in the history of our marriage that led up to this situation. But here I am nevertheless. Hindsight is 20/20. However, to be fair, nothing I did or will ever do will EVER make what he did right, or justified.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Or better yet, save your money for things that actually work.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk



Like flogging? Do you think he'd confess then?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> This is the root of the problem. Even if he is your husband he had no right to tape your activities without your consent.


Put me in the camp of those who did not know this before coming here. I'm not sure where the hole in my education comes from, but I wouldn't consider it a relationship extinction level event, and I had no idea that just about every one else on the planet would.

Perhaps OP's husband really did not realize the gravity of what he did at the time, though he certainly does now. 

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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Hello @Beyond Betrayed I like that you continually refocus to the critical point for you. "Can I forgive him?" Obviously none of us know that answer. We could probably be more artful in helping you to a conclusion.

To me this reads much like an infidelity thread. There were marital issues, dissatisfaction and a terrible choice made by one spouse. In every case where the spouse cheats it is made clear that the one betrayed has no responsibility for the adulterous actions. In your case, while not adulterous, there was an infidelity. And you are not responsible for IT.

Stock advice here is to decide what you can live with or without. Do you want to reconcile or divorce? Would information of further/greater misdeeds make reconciliation impossible? How much info would you need from him to be able to make a decision? Often these questions ride side by side with gauging the waywards remorse. If they don't show enough or proper remorse, can you reconcile?

Full disclosure, timelines, polygraphs, individual and marriage counseling are other tools that could help you.

If you can get answers from him that give you confidence in reconciliation then move forward. Sex issues would be addressed later. If you do not hear genuine remorse, grief and pain for hurting you as well as conviction to carry the load of recovery on his part, divorce should be considered. 

Someone mentioned it earlier but maybe this thread would receive more pointed advice if moved to the "Coping With Infidelity" section. Because he had not produced fidelity.


*Fidelity*
Faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support.
"he sought only the strictest fidelity to justice"

synonyms:	loyalty, allegiance, obedience; More
sexual faithfulness to a spouse or partner.

synonyms:	faithfulness, loyalty, constancy; More
the *degree of exactness with which something is copied or reproduced*.

- Do his actions reproduce the commitments that he made to you in marriage?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> What happens behind closed doors is suppose to be safe. And now (for me) it's not anymore, whether he shared the videos or not.


Now this part I truly can't wrap my head around. Why is the fact that what you did got recorded change your experience of it?

Let's assume that nothing was shared, that he was the only person to ever view the video. He was there originally, so what dirties the act of reviewing it on tape at a later date?

Given the circumstances, could you imagine giving him permission to tape you in the future? Is it the concept itself that really bothers you or the lack of permission? Or both?

Allowing him to do this with you express consent might be a reasonable compromise. 

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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

If you give 110% of your self to your kids and save 0% for their father, in most cases he will leave. His leaving is worse for the kids than if you had cut back to only giving the kids 80 - 90% of your time and energy and saved some of that for your husband. If you need to save 10% or 20% for yourself in order to have 10% for him, then the kids can only get 70%.

Which is worse:
The table in the foyer doesn't get dusted this week / month or dad leaves?
The toilets don't get cleaned this week / month or Dad leaves?
The carpet doesn't get vacuumed this week / month or Dad leaves?
Kids eat cereal for dinner on Wednesday or Dad leaves?
Kids wear dirty underwear to school once a week or Dad leaves?
Kids don't get to do dance lessons AND piano lessons AND math enrichment or Dad leaves?

I am not sure whether you can or should forgive your husband. But I am pretty sure you are making the common and often fatal (to one's marriage) mistake of prioritizing the kids above all else. Including yourself. You owe it to yourself to have some gas left in the tank every so often. The man in your life (current husband or next guy) will likely be much more enthusiastic about helping you carve out time for yourself if you make sure to always save a little time and energy for him.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Kids or no kids, perfect body or not, I would have great respect for any woman who refused to rug sweep such a personal violation, and not accept such an act of disrespect from the one who is supposed to care for, and protect them, the most.
> 
> I have known plenty with all the exterior attractiveness any man could possibly hope for, but without the inner strength to stand up as an independent human being, they are completely unattractive, even for a quick roll in the hay, let alone a lifetime partnership.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Your kind words and encouragement mean a lot to me. I keep saying this, but "talking" on here has been so therapeutic for me

Hopefully I can figure a way to heal and to forgive my husband. Whether that means we stay together, only time will tell; but I know that being this angry and obsessed on what he may or may not have done with our recordings is killing me! It's been almost 2 weeks since I found out and it's all I can think about.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Like flogging? Do you think he'd confess then?


Or you'll discover another level of kink!

There's a reason they don't allow polygraph results in court. 

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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I'm going to seek therapy for me alone. He keeps pushing for us to both go to a marriage therapist. Maybe in time we will; but I have to see if I can get through this. Get back to liking him if I can, because I truly dislike him to the core right now. If I hadn't seen the videos with my own eyes, I'd never have believed he'd do this. He's not who I thought he was, and that's so sad to me.


And that's the unexpected consequences for him. His wife now sees a revolting stranger and he is diminished in her eyes. I don't think he expected this or is willing to understand and accept this is how you now see him. 

He needs therapy too. To understand how wrong his actions were and how he shifted your perception of him. I think that we all have an image of what are spouse is...based on reality and our perception, what he has done is make you see him in a whole new light. And it's not good. 

Does he understand how you see him now? It's sad how his stupidness has created this tremendous rift in your marriage. 

Saying this in jest..because sometimes you have to laugh..:grin2: I would also, expect to get a new room from this. New paint job, furniture and decoration(actually bare walls for now) to make you feel safe again in the bed room. And since, I am evil, I would expect him to sleep with the kids for awhile. 

Take care girl.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Holdingontoit said:


> If you give 110% of your self to your kids and save 0% for their father, in most cases he will leave. His leaving is worse for the kids than if you had cut back to only giving the kids 80 - 90% of your time and energy and saved some of that for your husband. If you need to save 10% or 20% for yourself in order to have 10% for him, then the kids can only get 70%.
> 
> Which is worse:
> The table in the foyer doesn't get dusted this week / month or dad leaves?
> ...


Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Meaning, how do I "carve out" time for myself, by myself?!

I do get your point, it's not lost on me. But saying it and doing it are two completely different animals.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you! Your kind words and encouragement mean a lot to me. I keep saying this, but "talking" on here has been so therapeutic for me
> 
> Hopefully I can figure a way to heal and to forgive my husband. Whether that means we stay together, only time will tell; but I know that being this angry and obsessed on what he may or may not have done with our recordings is killing me! It's been almost 2 weeks since I found out and it's all I can think about.


Man this sucks. Have you seen a counselor? How about EMDR.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> He needs therapy too. To understand how wrong his actions were and how he shifted your perception of him.


I doubt he needs therapy at this point for understanding. 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained through stupidity"

I can empathize with someone who would fail to understand the gravity of this act until it was made clear. I'm neither stupid nor uncaring, but the younger me would not have known this without an external reference. Blame the spectrum, I guess.

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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Or you'll discover another level of kink!
> 
> There's a reason they don't allow polygraph results in court.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Sorry, everyone says this, and depending on the usage everyone is wrong. Yes they are not perfect, like DNA evidence, therefore not allowed in court, in most cases. 

Yes, a WELL TRAINED person can beat a poly, keyword, well trained. 

But in most normal circumstances, they will tell you whether or not the person is being truthful.


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm "kind of" shocked by some of the responses here... I say "kind of" because, IF I found out my wife was secretly taping me for some sort of "personal sexual use," I guess I would be shocked, but also a I'd feel kind of worshiped/wanted/hot etc....

Now I say that because the question (How would you like to be secretly recorded?)was posed to me once, by my wife when she found out I did it to her...

My wife DID NOT feel worshiped/wanted/hot etc. she only felt violated/betrayed/etc etc etc

I knew it was wrong as did the OPs husband, hence it wasn't shared with her but rather hidden away and later found out.

It's a terrible thing.
I'm forever sorry I did it, hard to explain the "why" though... whether it was "lack of boundaries" "lack of respect" I dont know... but no doubt it was wrong and I knew it when I did it.

Sorry to the OP and I do hope that its a workable situation.
My wife and I "seemingly" worked through it, but I'd be a fool to think there isnt (and always will be) some lingering effect.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Sorry, everyone says this, and depending on the usage everyone is wrong. Yes they are not perfect, like DNA evidence, therefore not allowed in court, in most cases.
> 
> Yes, a WELL TRAINED person can beat a poly, keyword, well trained.
> 
> But in most normal circumstances, they will tell you whether or not the person is being truthful.


I'll await the results of solid double blind studies showing their efficacy, thanks. In another thread, of course. The American Psychological Association states "For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph."

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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> musicftw07 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you perceive your H as giving nothing?
> ...


I never said he was right or justified in what he did. In fact, I said right off the bat multiple pages ago that he was wrong. So let's bury that argument here and now, because it appears that you're using what he did TODAY to justify your dismissive attitude towards him YESTERDAY. That doesn't fly.

You acknowledge that you could have done things differently in the past, yet continue to dismiss that fact as if it were irrelevant. This continued dismissiveness on your part is indicative of how you most likely viewed and treated him throughout your marriage. You've stayed multiple times that you love him, but your actions and attitude don't bear that out. You day you give and give and give (which I don't dispute), but when I ask you to think about what your husband gives, you acknowledge that he gives a lot but completely dismiss it as if it doesn't matter, or as if what you give has more merit or worth.

If you want to divorce him over it, then by all means do so. But if he were here posting instead of you, I'd first thump him across the head for being a dumbass for taping you without your consent, and then I'd urge him to bury this marriage and move on. Since he's not here, then I'm going to urge YOU to bury this marriage and move on. Let him go find someone who actually desires him, and you can be independent and free without having to fend off his unwanted advances. Doesn't that sound like a win/win for everybody?

I would love to see you be able to move closer to your husband, but I don't think you respected him even prior to finding out about the recordings. My only goal is to help draw out a path from here. Based on how you describe him, the only viable path I see from here is divorce.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I'll await the results of solid double blind studies showing their efficacy, thanks. In another thread, of course. The American Psychological Association states "For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph."
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Here is my last word on this. First give me a break with a the APA, that group is just not the best group of scientists out there. 

The bottom line is the, the CIA, and many federal agencies use them for a reason. No they are not perfect. 

But they have value esp in cases like infidelity and this type of deal. 

We agree to disagree, and that is cool...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

musicftw07 said:


> I never said he was right or justified in what he did. In fact, I said right off the bat multiple pages ago that he was wrong. So let's bury that argument here and now, because it appears that you're using what he did TODAY to justify your dismissive attitude towards him YESTERDAY. That doesn't fly.
> 
> You acknowledge that you could have done things differently in the past, yet continue to dismiss that fact as if it were irrelevant. This continued dismissiveness on your part is indicative of how you most likely viewed and treated him throughout your marriage. You've stayed multiple times that you love him, but your actions and attitude don't bear that out. You day you give and give and give (which I don't dispute), but when I ask you to think about what your husband gives, you acknowledge that he gives a lot but completely dismiss it as if it doesn't matter, or as if what you give has more merit or worth.
> 
> ...


Somehow, I didn't get that impression. 

It isn't irrelevant to the problems in the marriage, and she acknowledges that. But it is irrelevant with regard to the specific response he chose. We say over and over on this site, almost universally and without opposition, caveat or mitigation, that nothing justifies cheating. No matter what one spouse does, cheating is not an acceptable response. I see this violation of the marriage covenant to be in the same league with cheating in that regard; that there is no possible justification.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> musicftw07 said:
> 
> 
> > I never said he was right or justified in what he did. In fact, I said right off the bat multiple pages ago that he was wrong. So let's bury that argument here and now, because it appears that you're using what he did TODAY to justify your dismissive attitude towards him YESTERDAY. That doesn't fly.
> ...


Again, bury the "no justification" argument because I already said there isn't one. We established that. That horse is well and truly dead now. Continuing to say "there's no justification" doesn't change the fact that there's no justification. I'm not disputing that.

She doesn't know where to go from here. I'm suggesting divorce, for all the reasons stated above. Prior to finding the recordings, she still had no respect for him and dismissed his feelings. There's nothing to save.

Stick a fork in this marriage and call it done.

Just to reiterate for the umpteenth time, there was no justification. Is that well and truly established now?


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Now this part I truly can't wrap my head around. Why is the fact that what you did got recorded change your experience of it?
> 
> Let's assume that nothing was shared, that he was the only person to ever view the video. He was there originally, so what dirties the act of reviewing it on tape at a later date?
> 
> ...


It's the betrayal, it's that I do not BELONG to him. My body is mine alone. If I choose to share it with someone, it's my choice. If I choose to allow us to be recorded, it's my choice. It's the disrespect of him knowing I would have never said yes to it, him knowing this, and doing it anyway. I asked him why he didn't ask me first and he said "because I knew you'd say no". That right there should have been his stopping point, but he did it anyway simply to satisfy an itch. 

I'm sorry you don't get it, a lot (not all) of men on here don't. My husband would have been over the moon if I secretly recorded us having sex. There would be no hurt feelings what so ever. But, I asked him...what if I set up secret camera's in the computer room and or in the garage? He said he would have been furious. But why? Because he had an expectation of privacy in those places. And there it is. I have an undeniable expectation of privacy, not only in my bedroom at ALL times, but ESPECIALLY when I'm naked and having sex!


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Man this sucks. Have you seen a counselor? How about EMDR.


Not yet. Definitely going to seek out therapy in the very near future; for myself alone. Then maybe with the husband. Time will tell. Thanks for the input...I'll look into EMDR, I've never heard of it but I googled it and sounds interesting.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I doubt he needs therapy at this point for understanding.
> 
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained through stupidity"
> 
> ...


I do have to say, he feels terrible (as he should). He's devastated that our friendship more than anything has been damaged. We've been best friends since I was 16/17. That was 30 years ago! Who can say they have the same best friend, and still really like them all this time. IDK, I miss our friendship as well. It sucks, something happens in my day and my first reaction is to text him or call him. Then I remember how mad I am. I hope with time that diminishes. This is all very fresh to me, so I'm sure it will. But whether or not we stay married, I will always love him. But can I like him again? That's the million dollar question.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

musicftw07 said:


> I never said he was right or justified in what he did. In fact, I said right off the bat multiple pages ago that he was wrong. So let's bury that argument here and now, because it appears that you're using what he did TODAY to justify your dismissive attitude towards him YESTERDAY. That doesn't fly.
> 
> You acknowledge that you could have done things differently in the past, yet continue to dismiss that fact as if it were irrelevant. This continued dismissiveness on your part is indicative of how you most likely viewed and treated him throughout your marriage. You've stayed multiple times that you love him, but your actions and attitude don't bear that out. You day you give and give and give (which I don't dispute), but when I ask you to think about what your husband gives, you acknowledge that he gives a lot but completely dismiss it as if it doesn't matter, or as if what you give has more merit or worth.
> 
> ...


Look, let's just agree to disagree. I'm not going to justify my past actions, the how or why we got here with you or anyone. I'm here and that's my reality. Of course if we stayed married, the how and why will matter. But I have to get to the liking him again part, to even consider staying married. How can I lay next to someone every night if I don't like them? Like and love are two totally different things. I love him more than anything. Sorry if you don't know that, and I'm not going to give you an arms length list as to all the why's that I do to convince you. You have no skin in this game so I'm not real sure what your motivation is when you say I don't love or want him and probably never have. You've lived here with us for the last 30 years?

What I will say is, if I was looking for a "reason" or justification to leave him, I wouldn't be here with strangers looking for approval. I'd go to people in our real life, who know us, and speak to them about it. Or better yet, I'd just do it. And for the record, I don't think you've actually read this entire thread (I don't blame you, it's long) but had you, you'd see that way back when he I were having problems, I asked him if he wanted a divorce. We were fighting about our different sex drives (his high, mine low). It was our every conversation, it was our every fight, every single day. And I didn't do it out of anger, but because I loved him enough to let him go because I couldn't be what my partner NEEDED me to be. Take that for what it's worth. Read into it as I didn't compromise or I didn't really want him. Really, I'm over defending my past actions to you or anyone else.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I just have to say, I understand that putting everything into the kids could be detrimental to any relationship; but to suggest that someone throws in the towel on their special needs child because they can't be helped anymore is a little much; for what? So my hubby can be sexually fulfilled? Even he would never ask that. He loves me and our children more than that.
> 
> I think intimacy (at least for me) is way more than sex. It can be a glance from across the room; looking at the other person and knowing what they're thinking; holding hands; going for a walk alone; foot rub; watching a favorite show together, etc... you get my point. I can't explain it, but I don't need to have sex to feel close to my husband. It comes from so many other places. Is that one place? Of course, but not all of it. I and don't judge my happiness or contentment with my marriage on how many times I got laid the last month. Obviously a lot of men and women just simply disagree on this point. And that's OK


I'm recommending that you be realistic. If you are expending time and energy on tasks that are not making a tangible difference in your lives, then you are doing your entire family a disservice. I never said stop feeding your kids, I asked if there were unnecessary tasks that you could eliminate from your daily list of responsibilities. Your husband being sexually fulfilled will have a positive impact on your entire family. While engaging in futile childcare activities will just continue to weaken your marriage, and weaken your family.

As far as intimacy goes, men have some of the same feelings as well. The difference, is that men cannot feel truly intimate without sex, while (some) women can. Women think of sex as _one of many_ ways that a lovely romantic evening could end, while for men, it's not multiple choice. Intimacy without sex, would be to a man, what intimacy without affection and conversation is to a woman.

How would you rate your happiness and contentment if your husband only talked to you, and gave you a hug, one day a week? 



Beyond Betrayed said:


> I guess to me, compromise would be a two way street. It is a give and take, I get it. But when I'm giving, giving, giving (and no, not sex wise...but just life in general: kids, house, blah blah blah) literally 24/7, and you expect sex 5-7 days a week...I see that as you're taking and not giving. I have nothing to give, I've given it all away. Sex is more than just the act (to me). It can start two days beforehand; my foreplay is you take the kids away from the house for a few hours every so often, so I can hear myself think. My foreplay is you can clear the dinner dishes and fill the dishwasher while I rest. Now, I'm not saying that never happens, it does....I ask for it when I absolutely need it. But, if it were a more regular habit, where I didn't have to almost be having a nervous breakdown to ask for it, I'd have more "me" time, then I'm guessing we'd probably have more "we" time. If I'm so tired that I can't keep my eyes open, what fun is that?!?
> 
> I know I have to eventually deal with my low sex drive, whether I stay in this relationship or not. But I've always had it, so the hubby expecting it to skyrocket or be the same as it was when we were 20 (especially after 4 kids) is just sabotage IMO. Anyway, as I've said before, it's all a moot point if I can't find a way to forgive him


I hear you, being tired all the time isn't fun. I feel for you. If your husband can help relieve the burden, then I'm all for it. But I suspect that you currently preoccupying yourself with childcare activities that are not necessary, out of love and concern for your children. This is great, except that you're doing it at your husbands expense. And any wise woman will tell you, that your husband needs to come first. Your marriage is the foundation that your family is built upon. If your marriage suffers, your kids suffer. One of the very best things you can do for your children, is take good care of their father - and he you, of course. A good exercise that a long-married woman once gave, is that if you have a son, think on how you want his wife to treat him one day. And then consider, is that is how I'm treating my husband?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> But can I like him again? That's the million dollar question.


If he's penitent and doesn't do it again, then a good wife would offer him absolution, in my opinion.

One day it may be you seeking his understanding. Probably not over sex, but over something equally important to him that he discovers about you. I could write a long winded screed about an example from my marriage, but the anecdote isn't necessary to make the point.

Either you can live with the flawed person you married or you cannot. In the grand scheme of things, you had better do a really frank accounting of what he brings to the table compared to what you dislike. Given what you've shared here, it sounds like he brings plenty as a father and sexually frustrated husband willing to stay where many others would bail. 

Is this the hill you want to die on? If you're looking for a husband you never have to forgive, plan on being alone for a very long time. Especially if you're looking for one who will stay despite overwhelming sexual differences of the magnitude discussed here. Of that, I know more than you can possibly imagine.

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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Do him a favor and let him go. He thinks he wants to stay but really what does he get if he shows remorse and penance? The same wife who doesn’t compromise and isn’t that into him. It’s a prescription for disaster. With nothing changing he’ll eventually get frustrated and lonely and go off script again. 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

TheBohannons said:


> Pay for the lie detector test. Get it done. Ask 3 questions
> 1) have you ever shared the tapes
> 2) have you destroyed every tape.
> 3) have you ever had sex with anyone else while married.
> ...


Do a couple more, just to **** with him:

4). Are you telling the truth if you lie in bed?

5). If everything is part of a whole, what is the whole part of?

6). If flowers don't talk back to you, are they mums?

7). Do penguins have knees?

8). Is a female moth a myth?

9). Is a lightning rod on top of church a lack of faith?

10). Can a stupid person be a smart-ass?

Btw polygraphs don't really work. Otherwise they would be using them in courts.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

musicftw07 said:


> Again, bury the "no justification" argument because I already said there isn't one. We established that. That horse is well and truly dead now. Continuing to say "there's no justification" doesn't change the fact that there's no justification. I'm not disputing that.
> 
> She doesn't know where to go from here. I'm suggesting divorce, for all the reasons stated above. Prior to finding the recordings, she still had no respect for him and dismissed his feelings. There's nothing to save.
> 
> ...


You may well be right as to the best ultimate solution here. There is plenty of evidence to support that. But we need to be careful not to manufacture evidence. There are plenty of women (and men, for that matter), who are "into" their spouses, and respect them, while wanting far less sex. Here's the thing about compromising on sexual frequency that few seem to either understand or care to admit: even if the lower demand spouse acquiesces to greater frequency, it still doesn't manufacture desire. So while the physical desire of the high demand partner may be satisfied, his (or her) emotional needs may still not be covered. So while it's easy to condemn the wife in this case for her lack of sexual action, changing that may not fix the underlying disconnect at all. More importantly, it's not fair to just assume based on 1x/week that the wife isn't "into," her husband, or disrespects or callously dismisses him. For some, putting out even once a week takes great effort; effort which should not be callously discounted any more than a wife should callously discount her husband's feelings and desires. 

I'm not claiming to know which end of the spectrum OP here lies on, although she did say her level of desire has always been far lower than her husband's, even right from the start. So it's not like she pulled the bait and switch here. Only she can know what, if any effort, she has or hasn't put into achieving whatever level of performance she has. Again, you may still be right, that the marriage should end .... based strictly on an irreconcilable mismatch. But be careful about jumping to the conclusion that the wife is to blame for being "dismissive." That may or may not be the case. The only thing we can say with certainty, is what we have agreed upon, that the husband's response was inappropriate.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Beyond Betrayed....you mentioned that you asked him what if you had set up a hidden camera in the garage and he said he would be furious.

Maybe the only correlation some of the men here might understand is this: what if your wife placed hidden cameras where she knew she would see you jerking off to porn and also would see the porn on the screen you were watching? 

Let’s say her reasons for doing it are because it would turn her on. Would you really not feel anything creepy about that if it happened? Men are certainly not sexy looking when they are jerking off to porn and the porn they are watching could be quite alarming to the wife and embarrassing to the husband. So even if the wife said she got her rocks off on it, would you really feel it was her right to do this? And would you not feel she may have been sneaking other vids of you?

What if her secret fetish was scat and she secretly filmed you taking a dump? Or even better she waited until you were camping and were forced to take a dump in the woods? 

Men are you still ok with this? Come on, you know that would creep you the hell out.

Now let’s say you come across these vids and get to see just how unsexy you look when you are jerking off and taking dump. Feel like you’ve been betrayed maybe?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> It's the betrayal, it's that I do not BELONG to him. My body is mine alone. If I choose to share it with someone, it's my choice. If I choose to allow us to be recorded, it's my choice. It's the disrespect of him knowing I would have never said yes to it, him knowing this, and doing it anyway. I asked him why he didn't ask me first and he said "because I knew you'd say no". That right there should have been his stopping point, but he did it anyway simply to satisfy an itch.
> 
> I'm sorry you don't get it, a lot (not all) of men on here don't. My husband would have been over the moon if I secretly recorded us having sex. There would be no hurt feelings what so ever. But, I asked him...what if I set up secret camera's in the computer room and or in the garage? He said he would have been furious. But why? *Because he had an expectation of privacy in those places. And there it is. I have an undeniable expectation of privacy, not only in my bedroom at ALL times, but ESPECIALLY when I'm naked and having sex!*


Reading the last part, I am curious: why would you not have said yes if he asked you? I am not suggesting you should ever do anything you are not comfortable with, I am just curious about the reason to decline it.
The thing is, he was there with you during the act and it would only be him watching something that he already experienced and knows exactly what it looked and felt like. It's not something you did on your own ('expectation of privacy'). If you are uncomfortable and too shy then how can you be comfortable during the act of doing anything sexual with your husband? (with or without the camera)

I think most people would be mostly concerned and have hesitations doing it in case the video ever got out (if someone stole the hard drive etc) or if they wouldn't trust their partner (if he used it as 'revenge porn' for whatever reason) but the last sentence almost reads as if you perceive the video camera having a brain and perception of its own. It's not like the camera will 'assess' and judge your 'performance', it would be your husband watching it eventually, and he was present during the act, as well as 'behind' the act. There's no one else involved, it's still only you two. The only difference is the camera which is not another person, just an inanimate object...

It's difficult to make something like this look 'pretty' and I don't think it's the purpose. For example my wife is happy (ish) to do it but she doesn't like (hates) watching it back. Probably for the same reasons as you do (she is self-conscious). But she is happy for me to watch it: because I travel a lot and also she thinks that me watching us is much better than watching porn (and she is right, it is better, because I have more vivid memories of it). 

It seems to me that you had quite a shock and responding viscerally to it, seeing yourself from the outside like this. Perhaps the more time passes and the more time you had to digest it, the more likely it is that the shock will pass and you will manage to come to terms with it (in your own time).


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The OP has said that she loves her husband and doesn't know what will be happening down the line. Let's stop the bleeding first before recommending amputation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> But, I asked him...what if I set up secret camera's in the computer room and or in the garage? He said he would have been furious. But why? Because he had an expectation of privacy in those places. And there it is. I have an undeniable expectation of privacy, not only in my bedroom at ALL times, but ESPECIALLY when I'm naked and having sex!


About the garage thing: what did he actually say? (What's the big deal with a garage? And what on earth does he do in the garage? :surprise: Perhaps he just agreed to let you make a valid point? I can't really understand what it is he could be doing that HE might find embarrassing.

I think any comparison of wife recording anything (no matter how humiliating or strange) is a bad comparison. If the wife is recording anything (secret or no secret) and is getting off on watching it, that's just a turn on for a guy and I think any guy would welcome a wife getting turned on by anything he does.

I think perhaps a better comparison would be recording a man failing at his job spectacularly and then showing it to everyone, without his permission.
Like giving a terrible presentation, forgetting a speech or something similar and exposing this to the whole world. I don't know; I am just trying to think of something equivalent and it's hard...can't really think of anything. 

It can't be anything the wife would be getting horny from, because that, in itself (wife finding something that a husband does horny), would be flattering to a guy (so even the work video probably wouldn't work). Even if he was having a threesome with a goat or taking a dump in the woods (wowzer, the imagination...)


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Beyond Betrayed....you mentioned that you asked him what if you had set up a hidden camera in the garage and he said he would be furious.
> 
> Maybe the only correlation some of the men here might understand is this: what if your wife placed hidden cameras where she knew she would see you jerking off to porn and also would see the porn on the screen you were watching?
> 
> ...


No, I quite honestly would not feel betrayed in the least. Betrayal is when someone does something to harm someone else, with whom they enjoy intimacy. I'd be embarrassed and shocked, absolutely, but it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd just ask her not to do it any more. It's not like she violated me somehow, broke her word, or harmed me in some way. She just saw me at a moment when I didn't think she did.

I don't understand why Beyond Betrayed feels the way she does about the event, but that doesn't change the fact that she feels that way.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Do a couple more, just to **** with him:
> 
> 4). Are you telling the truth if you lie in bed?
> 
> ...


:grin2: you actually made me laugh out loud! Thank you!


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> About the garage thing: what did he actually say? (What's the big deal with a garage? And what on earth does he do in the garage? :surprise: Perhaps he just agreed to let you make a valid point? I can't really understand what it is he could be doing that HE might find embarrassing.
> 
> I think any comparison of wife recording anything (no matter how humiliating or strange) is a bad comparison. If the wife is recording anything (secret or no secret) and is getting off on watching it, that's just a turn on for a guy and I think any guy would welcome a wife getting turned on by anything he does.
> 
> ...



LOL, well, he has privacy in the garage is all I'll say. He actually didn't like the idea. He thought that would be an invasion of his privacy :surprise: go figure! Full discloser, he really feels like an ass for what he did (as he should) and won't stop apologizing. Says he'll do whatever I need to gain my trust back. And he'll wait as long as he has to, until I decide if we can rebuild the trust. So there's that. I miss him terribly, but my anger is so blinding right now I can't even think. And I'm not going to string him along as some on here would suggest. I've said many comments ago, that if I truly can't get past this and like him again as my best friend and fully trust him, then I won't make him pay for the rest of our relationship. It wouldn't be fair to either of us. Who wants to live in that misery?

But you're right, people will either get the fact that I feel betrayed or they won't. I can't make anyone be in my shoes, feel how I'm feeling, or understand my reaction to it. My feelings are my own. My feelings are relevant and justified. I think a lot of people who are posting negative things towards me really have issues all their own and are projecting their bullsh*t onto my story. I'm not going to even reward the trolls with my responses anymore. It's counterproductive and it takes away from my goal here, which people like you (and most others) have totally helped me in getting to. Thank you again for all of your insight. It really helps more than you know.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BioFury said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Beyond Betrayed....you mentioned that you asked him what if you had set up a hidden camera in the garage and he said he would be furious.
> ...


How about if your wife had previously confessed her scat fetish and you had already told her that you are ok with whatever she is into but you aren’t ever going to participate in it. Then you find thousands of hidden scat vids plus several of you taking a dump?

I’m sorry but I don’t buy it that you wouldn’t be totally horrified about seeing vids of yourself pinching off a loaf when you felt you were completely alone. If this really actually happened you would be sickened.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> How about if your wife had previously confessed her scat fetish and you had already told her that you are ok with whatever she is into but you aren’t ever going to participate in it. Then you find thousands of hidden scat vids plus several of you taking a dump?
> 
> I’m sorry but I don’t buy it that you wouldn’t be totally horrified about seeing vids of yourself pinching off a loaf when you felt you were completely alone. If this really actually happened you would be sickened.


You saying that actually makes me laugh out loud. Yes, as I already said, I'd be embarrassed and shocked (horrified), but I'd hardly feel any animosity towards her. I'd just be like: " :surprise:.................. :surprise: OMG, really babe?"


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

BioFury said:


> You saying that actually makes me laugh out loud. Yes, as I already said, I'd be embarrassed and shocked (horrified), but I'd hardly feel any animosity towards her. I'd just be like: " :surprise:.................. :surprise: OMG, really babe?"


I would not even be horrified. It would just confirm my suspicions  :moon:

And also remind me to run to the local bakery (best wholegrain loaves in town!).


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BioFury said:


> No, I quite honestly would not feel betrayed in the least. Betrayal is when someone does something to harm someone else, with whom they enjoy intimacy. I'd be embarrassed and shocked, absolutely, but it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd just ask her not to do it any more. It's not like she violated me somehow, broke her word, or harmed me in some way. She just saw me at a moment when I didn't think she did.
> 
> I don't understand why Beyond Betrayed feels the way she does about the event, but that doesn't change the fact that she feels that way.


The only other way I can put it to maybe help you to see where I'm at, but maybe not... When he taped me (many times) without my knowledge, every time he pressed record, I felt like he lied to me. He knew something I didn't. He knew every single time he set up the camera, pressed record and had sex with me that he was taping us. It's just so contrived and so sneaky. It's a ****ty feeling let me tell you. Kind of like the feeling where everyone was told the joke but you, and they're all laughing, and you're sitting there like "what's so funny?!?" I actually feel stupid and ashamed to be honest, it's the only way I can describe it. I fully trusted him with everything and he did this, knowing how shy and private I am. Doesn't matter he didn't share it (hopefully) with anyone. What if I brought the external drive to best buy to recover my pictures? There you go, now it's out of my control. That could so easily happen, whether you mean it to or not. Or God forbid, if my kids saw it while snooping around on the computer. Who knows?!? It's just not something I would do (for me, I pass no judgement on anyone that does...good for them) and he knew that 100%. So no, it's not that I think the camera is judging. And I know my husband has seen every inch of me, the good and the bad bits. It's just he took away any choice I had in it for his own selfish reasons....it was truly disrespectful and that's why I'm so hurt by it.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Best of luck.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

10). Can a stupid person be a smart-ass?.[/QUOTE]

The above post answers that question


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

2&out said:


> I think you are naive. No man half a man as your husband is going to go near you..


No class and unworthy of the male gender. You do not speak for all men nor men in general. The woman may be imperfect, (as we all are) but 25 years faithful and enjoys sex 1 a week is something to work with. As far as children, if you are dating in your mid 40s and can not deal with children, try same sex dating.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> 10). Can a stupid person be a smart-ass?.


The above post answers that question[/QUOTE]

LOL:grin2:


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> No class and unworthy of the male gender. You do not speak for all men nor men in general. The woman may be imperfect, (as we all are) but 25 years faithful and enjoys sex 1 a week is something to work with. As far as children, if you are dating in your mid 40s and can not deal with children, try same sex dating.



Don't waste your time. It will fall of deaf ears. People who put down and belittle others fail to realize that they are projecting their own self loathing or past hurts onto others. It makes them feel superior. If they're miserable, then damn it, everyone will be too.

I don't agree with a lot of what people have said to me, haven't agreed with some points of view, but not once have I ever put anyone down. Never even crossed my mind to make it personal with anyone. Trolls will be trolls and they look to get a rise out of people. I won't be responding to any of them


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> The only other way I can put it to maybe help you to see where I'm at, but maybe not... When he taped me (many times) without my knowledge, every time he pressed record, I felt like he lied to me. He knew something I didn't. He knew every single time he set up the camera, pressed record and had sex with me that he was taping us. It's just so contrived and so sneaky. It's a ****ty feeling let me tell you. Kind of like the feeling where everyone was told the joke but you, and they're all laughing, and you're sitting there like "what's so funny?!?" I actually feel stupid and ashamed to be honest, it's the only way I can describe it. I fully trusted him with everything and he did this, knowing how shy and private I am. Doesn't matter he didn't share it (hopefully) with anyone. What if I brought the external drive to best buy to recover my pictures? There you go, now it's out of my control. That could so easily happen, whether you mean it to or not. Or God forbid, if my kids saw it while snooping around on the computer. Who knows?!? It's just not something I would do (for me, I pass no judgement on anyone that does...good for them) and he knew that 100%. So no, it's not that I think the camera is judging. And I know my husband has seen every inch of me, the good and the bad bits. It's just he took away any choice I had in it for his own selfish reasons....it was truly disrespectful and that's why I'm so hurt by it.


When I initially read your original post, my first thought was that the source of your hurt feelings were because of shame and embarrassment. That you were embarrassed by yourself, and horrified that your flaws were "immortalized" on video. Your husbands actions were a factor, but not the major theme. Your husband was just the only target at which you could direct your feelings. Being embarrassed made you feel vulnerable, so you turned it into anger - because it made you feel more in control, less helpless.

I dropped that notion, but your post brings it back to my mind. You being the butt-end of a joke implies that there's something to laugh at - you. Which communicates that you consider yourself laughable, gross, or shameful. Is that true? Let's say your body was perfect - whatever that means to you. Imagine that you're the hottest mama jama you've ever seen - total dynamite. In that circumstance, do you think you would you be as upset as you are by your husband's actions?


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

All I am going to say....

Is that I am a woman (seems like lots of guys chiming in). And I don't get it. At all.

I couldn't imagine throwing away a marriage, a husband, everything over something like this. I simply can't wrap my head around being so upset about such a thing - in the slightest.

But I understand I am different person, and have different morals. My feathers would not be ruffled. I think I would actually be a bit flattered.

If this is the worst thing you have ever faced in a relationship. If this is big enough to flush it all down the commode.

Consider yourself very very lucky.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

When the threads starts including scat videos and goat threesomes, it is time to take our leave. You certainly have got your money's worth, BB. Hopefully you will hang around and post about a brighter path, in the future.

We wish you and your family well.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

BioFury said:


> When I initially read your original post, my first thought was that the source of your hurt feelings were because of shame and embarrassment. That you were embarrassed by yourself, and horrified that your flaws were "immortalized" on video. Your husbands actions were a factor, but not the major theme. Your husband was just the only target at which you could direct your feelings. Being embarrassed made you feel vulnerable, so you turned it into anger - because it made you feel more in control, less helpless.
> 
> I dropped that notion, but your post brings it back to my mind. You being the butt-end of a joke implies that there's something to laugh at - you. Which communicates that you consider yourself laughable, gross, or shameful. Is that true? Let's say your body was perfect - whatever that means to you. Imagine that you're the hottest mama jama you've ever seen - total dynamite. In that circumstance, do you think you would you be as upset as you are by your husband's actions?



You know, you gave me a think. I used the butt of a joke example as a way to get you to maybe feel how I felt. Not so much that he was pulling a prank on me, because I really don't think he would do that, and I am leaning towards thinking he didn't share it online....I actually go back and forth on this quite frequently  But it was really the only thing I could think of that maybe everyone has gone through at one time in their lives; to get that crappy feeling of being the only one that didn't know about something that involved you.

I guess to answer that, I'd have to be a different person, you know? Like, I am who I am, I have my body issues and imperfections, so I don't know what it would be like to have the "perfect" body. Unfortunately, this too has also plagued me my entire life. Not sure why, because in the grand scheme of things I don't think I'm ugly or fat, but there are bits of me that I wish I could change (doesn't everyone). And I've never been able to achieve total happiness with my body image (even when I was younger, 5'5" and 110 lbs, I even then found things wrong with my body). Looking back at old pictures, I'm like I WISH I looked like that now  But even then, all body issues for me aside, if I had a model body....who knows, maybe then I'd be sure enough in myself that I would have allowed him tape me in the first place. IDK. But I think I can honestly say, even in that circumstance, if he had done it in secret, I'd be this pissed off and hurt. It's more than what I feel I look like, it's the lying and secrets and him knowing something I didn't know that totally involved me....isn't that in fact a form of infidelity?


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> All I am going to say....
> 
> Is that I am a woman (seems like lots of guys chiming in). And I don't get it. At all.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I am lucky, I know. Unfortunately, we all carry things with us from our past, consciously &/or subconsciously, and I believe I may have more negative body issues that I realized. Another revelation I've had since coming on here  That being said, maybe if I were more sure of myself, I'd be more free with my sexuality....like spicier things in the bedroom, or allowing our sessions to be filmed, etc... But, that's neither here nor there, because I am who I am and I find myself in this situation. It's not just the filming me; it's all of the lying and conniving that lead up to the taping us multiple times. I just feel it was disrespectful and a betrayal. I wish I was more open minded, that I could brush it off as just a stupid mistake and move on. I'm hoping that one day I can get past it and not be hurt by it anymore. Time will tell. He's a good man in every other way, so you are right that it could be much worse, this I know.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thank you. I am lucky, I know. Unfortunately, we all carry things with us from our past, consciously &/or subconsciously, and I believe I may have more negative body issues that I realized. Another revelation I've had since coming on here  That being said, maybe if I were more sure of myself, I'd be more free with my sexuality....like spicier things in the bedroom, or allowing our sessions to be filmed, etc... But, that's neither here nor there, because I am who I am and I find myself in this situation. It's not just the filming me; it's all of the lying and conniving that lead up to the taping us multiple times. I just feel it was disrespectful and a betrayal. I wish I was more open minded, that I could brush it off as just a stupid mistake and move on. I'm hoping that one day I can get past it and not be hurt by it anymore. Time will tell. He's a good man in every other way, so you are right that it could be much worse, this I know.


Did you read any of that blog I sent you. It's interesting that you are so down on your body and your husband filmed it. He probably thinks your hot. Assuming there is no more nefarious reason.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It's the disrespect. She was treated with total indifference. An object to be used and arranged and manipulated for his current and future amusement and pleasure. 

It's disheartening that so few men on this thread can understand that.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

TheBohannons said:


> 10). Can a stupid person be a smart-ass?.


The above post answers that question[/QUOTE]

Lighten up. I was trying to cheer her up.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> isn't that in fact a form of infidelity?


No, it's not 'infidelity'. Though it's a form of betrayal (which infidelity is also part of). But only if you choose to see it that way. There's no objective view on this (as you can tell from the posts and massive differences of opinions).

In another situation, a wife may discover what you discovered and thought: "oh poor you, you must be so desperate to have to do somethings like this...come here, let me help you out..." 
Or: "you pervert, gtfo of my house how could you do this to me?!"

Both would be valid reactions. I think people here are quite careful not to invalidate your feelings in general (which are all valid) which I think is good.
But there are some on the forums with an anti-men bias* too (including men themselves) and anything a guy will do will be just another reason to point out what pigs men are, including those who try to see another point of view (of why he may have done it) so that perhaps you might evaluate your own feelings, whether you have over-or under-reacted and whether you feel you want to continue with the marriage or not. It's kind of a shame it's so polarised around here but that's why you get so many different opinions which must be confusing for you?? (It would be for me).

I feel like you already made up your mind of what you are going to do.

*There are also some with anti-women agendas too, usually around the CWI boards. So I guess it all balances out somewhere, somehow. But it's actually quite rare to find an impartial opinion when it comes to these things. And trying to bring those two groups closer together has produced terrible reuslts...banhim

PS: btw careful with calling people trolls, mods don't like it. I know you are new to this forum so these are just quick tips for the future.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> It's the disrespect. She was treated with total indifference. An object to be used and arranged and manipulated for his current and future amusement and pleasure.
> 
> It's disheartening that so few men on this thread can understand that.


The fact that he KNEW she would say no so did not ask is the most telling.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It would be nice if men on this board would stop calling She's a man-hater. She isn't. True, She doesn't suffer fools gladly. It's the minimizing of men's behavior and justifying to any and all extents that riles her. That said, She would probably recommend a quick tar&feather of OP's husband. And, I would 'like' her post.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> It would be nice if men on this board would stop calling She's a man-hater. She isn't. True, She doesn't suffer fools gladly. It's the minimizing of men's behavior and justifying to any and all extents that riles her. That said, She would probably recommend a quick tar&feather of OP's husband. And, I would 'like' her post.


I wasn't referring to *her* in my post! (if you mean my post by 'people').
I specifically said I find *both* reactions understandable, even if extreme.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I wasn't referring to *her* in my post! (if you mean my post by 'people').
> I specifically said I find *both* reactions understandable, even if extreme.


Actually I was referring to 'men' (as I stated). lol


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Actually I was referring to 'men' (as I stated). lol


Ok then I must have missed the many posts where men called her those things.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> No, it's not 'infidelity'. Though it's a form of betrayal (which infidelity is also part of). But only if you choose to see it that way. There's no objective view on this (as you can tell from the posts and massive differences of opinions).
> 
> In another situation, a wife may discover what you discovered and thought: "oh poor you, you must be so desperate to have to do somethings like this...come here, let me help you out..."
> Or: "you pervert, gtfo of my house how could you do this to me?!"
> ...


Thanks! Didn't know you can't do that! I think they removed the guys comments to me and thus me calling him that. In the future I'll just ignore people who are just here to rile things up or project their crappy circumstances onto me 

It's funny, I could have easily left out some of my backstory (and ultimately how I got here) and thus creating tons of sympathy for me. If I truly didn't want to get real opinions and an insight into the male mind, I could have so skewed this into a "poor me" thread. Or I could have put this on the Infidelity section. Anyway, thank you for your time and insight when you responded to me throughout this thread, it's helped


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

You are who you are......

Do you not think that people can develop, grow and change?

Do you think a victim of abuse must then navigate their lives as a damaged person, or perhaps they could use tools like counseling to heal the wounds and become a happier person?

I have tiny tiny breasts (also mismatched in size), I am overweight, I have excess skin and stretch marks from weight fluxations - I get not having a perfect body. 

But ya know what? I worked on it. Having issues with my body, wasn't good for me nor my relationship.

I matured, I learned to let go of my anxieties. I learned how to see myself the way my husband sees me - and let me tell you it's a wonderful feeling!

I used to hide from cameras - there are very very few pictures of me from my teen years till thirty something. I used to hate seeing pictures of myself.

But when I started to feel differently about myself, things changed - crazy things like strangers stopping to tell me I was beautiful. That never happened to me before in my life!!! It was amazing to see how feeling differently about myself, seemed to chnage the ways others perceived me.

And now.... I feel a lot more confident and beautiful. And heck, I even let my husband film us having sex. He loves to have some little clips of us, and I think it's kinda cute how into me he his.

But you are who you are. And I am who I am.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> It's the disrespect. She was treated with total indifference. An object to be used and arranged and manipulated for his current and future amusement and pleasure.
> 
> It's disheartening that so few men on this thread can understand that.


Blondilocks, look I get that you are all about the empowerment of women. I am too actually. 

We get that what this guy did was wrong, OK. We Freaking get it. We are not stupid people. 

Now whatever your sex life is like is your business. But frankly, My GF likes that I look at her sometimes like a sexual object... I am sure that she is not as evolved as you are, but the fact of the matter is, she wants me to desire her 27/7, which I do. She wants me to bang her brains out any time we have time. 

I know, I should probably find her a therapist because she likes sex too much... But I am still trying to find a therapist for me, because I like to have sex every day, and even... multiple times a day. 

I must really be sick. Heck, we were a little late leaving he place this morning because of my sickness. 

But on the other hand, she had a REALLY big smile on her face after I kissed her a put her in her car... maybe she does need a therapist before me...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> Blondilocks, look I get that you are all about the empowerment of women. I am too actually.
> 
> We get that what this guy did was wrong, OK. We Freaking get it. We are not stupid people.
> 
> ...


Really, dude? Just WTF is your problem?


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Did you read any of that blog I sent you. It's interesting that you are so down on your body and your husband filmed it. He probably thinks your hot. Assuming there is no more nefarious reason.


I did, I looked at it last night. Thank you. It's crazy some of the stuff she says on there, it was like she was talking directly to me! I haven't gotten to a lot of it, but I will. I have to. I have a lot of work to do. I have to get to a better place, whether it's for this relationship or the next.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> You are who you are......
> 
> Do you not think that people can develop, grow and change?
> 
> ...


Beautifully said. Thank you for that. I definitely have a lot of work ahead of me. I think I read that before, someone said "see yourself as your husband does", and that makes me think. He loves seeing me naked, he chases me around like a horny teenager when I'm trying to get dressed, slaps my butt as I walk by. It sometimes would annoy me. Thinking back, I just should have appreciated it. Self reflection is an amazing thing


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Really, dude? Just WTF is your problem?


My problem is that you think that people who like sex, and even want to have sex every day need therapy. 

That is some type of weird, weird thinking. 

That is my problem, and my sarcastic post is there to draw everyone's to that attitude.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

For what it's worth to the OP, my H and I both feel what your H did was wrong. Whether it is divorce worthy is up to you. I truly wish you and your family the best.


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

So, I think this is where I will leave you all. Thank you to everyone for your time in reading this thread and taking the time to respond with insight and good intentions. Good, bad or ugly I have learned more than I bargained for coming here. I really thought I'd get a lot of "divorce the SOB", etc... but instead I was forced to look at myself, and how I contributed to the state of my marriage. Not how I contributed to WHAT he ultimately did, but what lead up to him doing it and maybe WHY he may have done it. Self reflection is a strange thing. I've got a lot of work to do on myself, that is for sure!! But I understand (I hope) a little more of the typical male thinking (not all, of course) when it comes to the want/desire for sex; and no matter what ultimately happens with my marriage, all of this that I got from here, will only benefit me and whoever I'm in a relationship with.

Best of luck to all of you and I'll come back with an update when there is one


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I know it hurts, but it isn't the end of the world. You will get through this. 

If you are up for it, let your H help you.

Good luck BB! To you both.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> Thanks! Didn't know you can't do that! I think they removed the guys comments to me and thus me calling him that. In the future I'll just ignore people who are just here to rile things up or project their crappy circumstances onto me
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, I could have easily left out some of my backstory (and ultimately how I got here) and thus creating tons of sympathy for me. If I truly didn't want to get real opinions and an insight into the male mind, I could have so skewed this into a "poor me" thread. Or I could have put this on the Infidelity section. Anyway, thank you for your time and insight when you responded to me throughout this thread, it's helped




No worries. It’s how I got my first (of many) bans. You got lucky this time..

Incidentally it was also on a thread where a wife discovered that her husband put cameras in the shower. She was furious and everyone came down much harder on the husband. There was a difference that they had a daughter and everyone was saying that he must have filmed the daughter as well (even though she said daughter doesn’t use that shower). Told her to call the police which she did. 
Anyway it turned out she was already checked out of the marriage for a long time (they never had sex and any touch from him repulsed her). And she was determined to leave him (which I think she did in the end).
So that was the last straw.
Of course none of it justifies what he did but it always boggles my mind some of the extrapolations people make. Of course no one should bury their head in the sand but there is a difference between this and hysteria...

How about as a punishment, you record him washing dishes and cleaning the house for the next three weeks while you put your feet up. Then decide what to do.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Really, dude? Just WTF is your problem?



He said...he is sick.
Sick with lurve 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> So, I think this is where I will leave you all. Thank you to everyone for your time in reading this thread and taking the time to respond with insight and good intentions. Good, bad or ugly I have learned more than I bargained for coming here. I really thought I'd get a lot of "divorce the SOB", etc... but instead I was forced to look at myself, and how I contributed to the state of my marriage. Not how I contributed to WHAT he ultimately did, but what lead up to him doing it and maybe WHY he may have done it. Self reflection is a strange thing. I've got a lot of work to do on myself, that is for sure!! But I understand (I hope) a little more of the typical male thinking (not all, of course) when it comes to the want/desire for sex; and no matter what ultimately happens with my marriage, all of this that I got from here, will only benefit me and whoever I'm in a relationship with.
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck to all of you and I'll come back with an update when there is one



*♂ best of luck 

(Stupid emoji won’t let me do a manly good bye. Where’s that gender equality when you need it?)


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Well Peeps

I have read alot of posts on this thread 

I just don't understand why there are two sides to this 

The OP's H actions are indefensible

Definition of indefensible

1 a : incapable of being maintained as right or valid : untenable
b : incapable of being justified or excused : inexcusable indefensible comments

Issue cleared up courtesy of Webster

55


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Beyond Betrayed
I will always love him. But can I like him again? That's the million dollar question.*

A basic need of men is to be liked. If a wife doesn't like her H, the marriage is toast no matter what else she does.

Look at what Windwalk did to be liked and now the residual damage he has because he tried to make it up to his wife.
* but I am not as eager to walk through hell and back as I once was. I might just stick my hand in the fire and see how I feel, then make the decision.*


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Handy said:


> * Beyond Betrayed
> I will always love him. But can I like him again? That's the million dollar question.*
> 
> A basic need of men is to be liked. If a wife doesn't like her H, the marriage is toast no matter what else she does.
> ...


One of my wife's sayings is, "I love you, but I don't necessarily like you at the moment."

Most of the time this is said in jest, but it carries a lot of weight in a marriage and LTR's. How far we let that carry on determines the amount of damage caused to the marriage . I also believe that this saying is true for almost every couple at times.

Now, I don't necessarily agree about the amount of damage she caused, I think it's that I became much more outcome independent and stronger. Less willing to be married just for the sake of marriage.

Self respect is a powerful thing for any person.

And like her husband, what I did by having the EA was absolutely indefensible!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Beyond Betrayed said:


> I have a lot of work to do. I have to get to a better place, whether it's for this relationship or the next.


Which is what this comes down to, you are going to have to decide if you want to move forward together or apart.

The past simply can't be undone.

So if you want to move forward together and have a chance at having a healthy marital relationship together, you're going to have to forgive him and invest some time and effort on your relationship with him.

Otherwise if you don't want to forgive him and invest yourself into rebuilding your relationship with him, you ought to start sorting things out for the dissolution of your marriage.

Likewise if you do want to end your marital relationship, you will also have to decide for yourself if you want to extract your pound of flesh from him or more and then act accordingly. That said if you do want to have a healthy marital relationship with him, cutting a piece out of him, will not get you to a better place with him.

As to my opinion of his behaviour, I think what he did was wrong and an egregious violation of your privacy and most significantly a violation of your trust.

Now bearing in mind the fact that I think his behaviour was unconscionable, I do think on some level his conduct was probably driven by fear and shame, rather than by nefarious intent.

...


Sexual compatibility is a significant issue as well, just as his breach of your privacy and trust is significant as well. Now the former is certainly not responsible for his latter actions and certainly doesn't diminish them. Yet there is some connection to this with how he responds to the former which also drives some of the latter.

When it comes to sexual incompatibility some people don't humour the differences, and mutually or unilaterally end their sexual relationships quickly instead of continuing to keep investing in that which doesn't work.

While some others do find a way together and compromise for each other in ways that afford them the opportunity to grow together positively.

The above two approaches are healthy, the one that follows isn't.

Then there are those who look the other way when it comes to sexual incompatibility, and press on regardless without addressing the incompatibilities. Where one does the lions share of acquiescing at their own expense, while the other gives little because they are not inclined to yield at their own expense.

...


From what you describe it seems to me (and of course I could be wrong), that you and your husband fall into the look the other way camp. Now neither of you are right or wrong for being who you are and much of this cannot be helped. Yet he has always wanted more and you have wanted less and you both have not met in a way that honours both of your wants, you have simply shared less and he has sucked it up.

Yet looking the other way is corrosive at the core, and can leave one party believing one picture of their relationship while the other party has a completely different perspective.

Though you are not wrong to not compromise on your sexual frequency. While your husbands actions, also make it perfectly reasonable for you to believe he accepts the status quo.

It is highly likely he harbours much resentment over this. Despite the fact he acquiesces and sacrifices his own feelings and desires for intimacy to you at his own expense, in an attempt to please you and to respect you

Yet while ever he remains conflict avoidant he is not likely to tell you, that he finds less sex not acceptable and will not be inclined to have the strength to reach a substantial and positive compromise with you on this, So easily ending that which doesn't work through compromise or disolution is a frightening path for him.

So for the most part he sucks it up, with it occasionally burbling to the surface with him expressing himself. Yet the malaise of rejection, comes the malaise of trying less and the withdrawal into a shell, because to do otherwise is to find more hurt with you his love.

Yet tamping down his visceral urges can cause problems to percolate elsewhere, so shame and fear becomes a greater driver. Where his urges aren't satiated he tries to meet them in other ways and in this instance one of these ways is to capture you with a camera having sex and being naked. Yet being conflict avoidant, lacking assertiveness in his sexuality and feeling vulnerable and shamed, it is probably easier for him to do this without asking you, telling you and seeing if he can take you there with him.

Now some will suck up such things and hide the things that simmer below more successfully than others, yet for many at some point even after decades they do find they can no longer swallow the acrid water they once supped willingly.

Of course you have done nothing wrong by respecting yourself and limiting the sex you choose to share and most importantly desire to share with your husband.

Yet it is a fools errand to believe that despite what ones partner may do in acceptance when it is known they desire more. That such a path is not fraught with problems waiting to pop up, when one does that at the expense of their sexual partners desires.

All of that said his being conflict avoidance and acquiescent, while harbouring fear and shame, doesn't excuse his conduct although it may go some way towards explaining some of it.

...


If you want a chance at moving forward positively and successfully with this dynamic, you will both have to make yourselves more vulnerable to each other. Protecting yourselves emotionally and not laying yourselves bare and not meeting each others desires more closely is at the core of the pervasive corrosion that is starting to show in your marital relationship.

A positive outcome with respect to your sexual incompatibility, will require a level of honesty, vulnerability, compromise and introspection that you both may not be willing to expose yourselves to.

A decent future together will require you both to communicate more deeply than you have ever done.

...


I have also brought this discussion up with my wife and her opinion reflects mine to some degree. She thinks it was wrong of him to do what he did. Yet *presuming he hasn't* shared such images with others without your consent, she doesn't think it's that big a deal in terms of terrible things and understands his desire to do what he did.

...


So it comes down to, do you want to use this discovery as an opportunity to make for a better marital relationship with your husband moving forward? Or do you want to use this an opportunity for you both to cut your losses with respect to your significant sexual incompatibility?

Since outside of those two options, the third option which is not addressing what happened and not doubling down on shared vulnerability, will ensure even greater corrosion in your marriage.

At the end of the day what you do and how you feel about it is entirely up to you, which is all that matters in whatever you choose going forward.

Good luck, whatever you choose.



Disclaimer 1: From 2003 through to today, I sometimes capture erotic and pornographic still images or moving pictures of my wife and less frequently us. This has always followed having her sober and informed consent prior to such activities. Combined with her active participation which has usually been enthusiastic, although on limited occasion she has been bored waiting for me to sort things out.

While in more recent years we have both posted a limited number of my still images online with identifying features not shown, knowing they are likely to be used by some for masturbation material (since taken down a while ago, while knowing it's still out there somewhere). While we have also shared a smaller number of images of my wife with one other known woman as well.

Please note I am certainly not encouraging you to do what we do with respect to such things. That said I do encourage you to endeavour to have the level of communication and vulnerability that my wife and I share if you want to move forward successfully together.

Disclaimer 2: I have never maintained a sexually incompatible sexual relationship at all, nor found myself in a limited sexual frequency, or sexless nominally sexual relationship. I've also been with my wife for close to 22 years and happily married for less than two weeks shy of 19 years. We also have two teenage children together as well (no special needs although one had a life threatening condition for a few years).


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## Beyond Betrayed (Apr 18, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> *♂ best of luck
> 
> (Stupid emoji won’t let me do a manly good bye. Where’s that gender equality when you need it?)
> 
> ...



You don't need a stupid emoji to show that you're manly, I believe you are >:grin2:


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Personal

As to my opinion of his behaviour, I think what he did was wrong and an egregious violation of your privacy and most significantly a violation of your trust.

Now bearing in mind the fact that I think his behaviour was unconscionable, I do think on some level his conduct was probably driven by fear and shame, rather than by nefarious intent.

...


Sexual compatibility is a significant issue as well, just as his breach of your privacy and trust is significant as well. Now the former is certainly not responsible for his latter actions and certainly doesn't diminish them. Yet there is some connection to this with how he responds to the former which also drives some of the latter.

When it comes to sexual incompatibility some people don't humour the differences, and mutually or unilaterally end their sexual relationships quickly instead of continuing to keep investing in that which doesn't work.

While some others do find a way together and compromise for each other in ways that afford them the opportunity to grow together positively.

The above two approaches are healthy, the one that follows isn't.

Then there are those who look the other way when it comes to sexual incompatibility, and press on regardless without addressing the incompatibilities. Where one does the lions share of acquiescing at their own expense, while the other gives little because they are not inclined to yield at their own expense.*

This is about where I stand. Good post Persona.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> Well Peeps
> 
> I have read alot of posts on this thread
> 
> ...


I agree. There are a lot of posts on this thread that have me shaking my head. 

Making excuses for someone doing something indefensible, is, well, indefensible.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just deleted a thread jack that was talking about another poster in 3rd person. Not acceptable. Anyone who continues the thread jack will enjoy a break.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree. There are a lot of posts on this thread that have me shaking my head.
> 
> Making excuses for someone doing something indefensible, is, well, indefensible.


I suppose this argument makes sense in a world where there is universal agreement on what defines indefensible.

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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I agree. There are a lot of posts on this thread that have me shaking my head.
> 
> Making excuses for someone doing something indefensible, is, well, indefensible.


Indefensible is not the same as unforgivable. Also the 'punishment' has to fit the severity of the crime so the argument (for me at least) was never whether he is guilty or not, but whether she should leave him over this, given the fact that she still loves him. 
If she hated his guts, I think it would be a different scenario and an easier decision.


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