# Would you pay for med school for your child?



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dd19 is a freshman in chem engineering, doing very well. She is thinking about going to med school after she graduates.

She is just a wonderful girl in every way, and if we were millionaires, I would not think twice about paying. But we are not.

Dh told me last weekend that he would like us to pay for it, or at least take out loans for her, or co-sign, or however that works. He asked what I thought.

I think she should work as an engineer first, use that degree, and see how she likes the business world. After two years, she can see if she is still interested in med school.

I know he is devoted to our kids, and believe me, I totally admire that in a father. But I wonder when there will ever be time just for us to have fun with money.

I feel like I am being incredibly selfish. And really, if he wants to do this, I am sure it would not be the worst thing. And knowing dd, I am almost positive she would pay us back, unasked.

What would you do? 

Keep in mind, dh normally makes less than 200k per year, and we have four more kids to put through at least undergrad.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Nope. Ours know we will pay for the undergrad degree but they're on their own after that. Our oldest is now in graduate school on his own dime.


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## TooNice (Nov 26, 2013)

No, our kids get help as much as we can with a four year undergrad (and the more they can help themselves through scholarships, etc, they more we can try to help). After that, they are responsible for any further education. 

I think that's totally fair.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

My brother and cousin both took government money to pay some of their tuition. My cousin took one year of money and did public service on the island of Puerto Rico as a GP. He treated it as a life experience. He learnt Spanish, slept with the local women who threw themselves at the ****** doctor (actually he half White half Asian so he could have been a local). He also learnt to fly.

After that year he went to residency and has been very successful.

He said that he could have borrowed all the money and paid it back.

My brother took US Navy money in part because my mother's cousin was a navy doctor (a big cheese). He took money for 4 years and served four years after doing a residency at Bethesda. My SIL disliked the military. She's a snob and doesn't like lower middle class/trailer trash. She is also a doctor. They were stationed overseas. The hospital could have hired her but refused. So she quit practicing medicine.

My brother served on Okinawa for a few months before being a resident. He had no family there. 

My nephews all learned a European language. They all forgot it except the eldest.

So there are various ways to pay. 

My brother feels that doctors are paid obscenely well. He feels nice guy guilt. 

The economic circumstances may change in the future, so you cannot guarantee your daughter anything.

Would she look sharp in a Navy uniform?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

If we had the means to provide it without changing our lifestyle,yes I might consider helping my son with med school. I wouldn't pay for all of it or even a large portion of it though. He needs to stand on his own and earn as much of it for himself as possible so it's more valuable to him. 

As it stands right now I would not help him with anything regarding school other than offering guidance and advice. 

I feel you have no reason to have guilt in your heart on this matter.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

No, especially with 4 kids to push through.

It's not financially feasible and will put you into fairly crushing debt in your golden years.

Can't be done.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> The economic circumstances may change in the future, so you cannot guarantee your daughter anything.
> 
> Would she look sharp in a Navy uniform?


Lol, LW. I did not think of the military option. I will run that by dh/dd. 

And yes, we could not promise. We would just be helping as we go along, whether full or in part.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> If we had the means to provide it without changing our lifestyle,yes I might consider helping my son with med school. I wouldn't pay for all of it or even a large portion of it though. He needs to stand on his own and earn as much of it for himself as possible so it's more valuable to him.
> 
> As it stands right now I would not help him with anything regarding school other than offering guidance and advice.
> 
> I feel you have no reason to have guilt in your heart on this matter.


Thanks, SB. She has already talked about how she wants to pay us back for undergrad, which we will not even hear of. That's just us, though. 

She is very thrifty, and works so hard, and has just been such a blessing in every way to us since she was about 5. We both feel like she deserves it.

I am going to ask dh to look at this thread. He already knows what I think. I think it is very generous of him, and again, I truly respect his dedication to his children. I just feel like it is asking a lot from us.

We'll see how it goes. Thanks again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

tacoma said:


> No, especially with 4 kids to push through.
> 
> It's not financially feasible and will put you into fairly crushing debt in your golden years.
> 
> Can't be done.


I will ask dh. We may not be able to pay for all of it, but he won't hear of not contributing anything.

Personally, I think undergrad is plenty for the parents to pay for. It is already a big gift, and a start in life.

But we, apparently, have to go all the way. 

Sorry that my _attitude_ is showing.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Keep in mind with my comment it should be understood I'm very much a tough love parent.It isn't necessarily the right way or the best way so it's possible a compromise would work out to be more positive for your family situation.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

One needs to be realistic with the cost of medical school. I can tell you it is a lot and I mean a lot. True, state run medical schools may not be as much (half of what a private would cost but still a huge cost) but the cost is still substantial. To a put a number on this, after all is said and done you would be looking at something close to six figures in debt. 

There are ways to pay for medical school without having to go into to huge financial debt: 

1. One could consider applying to a NIH funded PhD/MD program. They are much longer (7+) rather than the 4 years. 

2. One could consider working for a government agency after they finished their med school and residency program - military, or other service (working in underserved areas). Government will sometimes pay off your loan or at least large portions of it. 

Of course if Dd19 is interested in science but not as much in dealing with patients on a daily basis, all PhD programs are funded through NIH grants via their academic advisor. In this case, no tuition is necessary. However, she should realize that this will be a huge dedication. My entire time in graduate school, I had a total of five days off. Yes, I even went in to work on Christmas and Thanksgiving Day every year I was there. It is pretty much slave labor and in return you get your education paid for along with a small living stipend for which you could share an apartment and live on Ramen noodles. 

I advise any student considering medical school that they shadow a physician for one whole week. Nine times out of 10, they change their mind. You really have to have a heart to do it, in which to get any level of true career satisfaction. Sure the money is good, but I would prefer my physician be there because he/she wants to be there. I am tough on students that think they want this career path to see if they have it in them.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TooNice said:


> No, our kids get help as much as we can with a four year undergrad (and the more they can help themselves through scholarships, etc, they more we can try to help). After that, they are responsible for any further education.
> 
> I think that's totally fair.


I do, too, TN. 

We're only paying $2k a semester, because of all the scholarships. The high SAT and ACT scores were key there, as our kids are homeschoolers and so the transcripts are not trusted as much, I think.

Dh probably feels that because we are paying so little for undergrad, we should help further. That is not all of it, but it probably is part of it.

I think we just lucked out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> Nope. Ours know we will pay for the undergrad degree but they're on their own after that. Our oldest is now in graduate school on his own dime.


She has also talked about doing a PhD. She is doing research this semester, and was offered an assistantship over the summer. She loves working in the lab.

But if she goes the PhD route, we won't have to pay anything.

It's all up to her, but I think she should try working first, before any further education.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

jld said:


> I will ask dh. We may not be able to pay for all of it, but he won't hear of not contributing anything.
> 
> Personally, I think undergrad is plenty for the parents to pay for. It is already a big gift, and a start in life.
> 
> ...


Well certainly there's nothing wrong with helping your child.

My main objection is that you shouldn't commit to a free ride.
Not because she's not worth it or won't do her best to pay you back but because it's a huge potentially lifetime debt that you might find impossible to get out from under.

Helping her out with books, living space, bills, even semester tuitions if you can is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't indebt you for any great length of time.

Quite frankly with the insanely corrupt cost of college and the ever quickening devaluation of higher education I'm going to be very particular with what I will and won't pay for when mine gets to that point.

Scholarships are hopefully going to be a big part of that if it's her intention.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

JMHO

who know whats in store for the health care industry with Obama Care.

I would encourag her to stick to engenering.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

drerio said:


> One needs to be realistic with the cost of medical school. I can tell you it is a lot and I mean a lot. True, state run medical schools may not be as much (half of what a private would cost but still a huge cost) but the cost is still substantial. To a put a number on this, after all is said and done you would be looking at something close to six figures in debt.
> 
> There are ways to pay for medical school without having to go into to huge financial debt:
> 
> ...


I am thinking 200k. I really don't see how we are going to be able to pay that in full. Loans would have to be a part of it. And I just don't think it is our responsibility. _That is where dh and I see it differently._

She is also considering the PhD route. She spends a lot of her free time in the lab now. Sat. nights are lab nights for dd, and she loves it. She was planning to go in on Easter to check her cells, lol. Her friends are almost all grad students.

I have no doubts about her work ethic, intelligence, and dedication. She is the female version of dh, so very steady, stable, mature, etc. She really would work hard at anything she did.

I told her last weekend she should do whatever she wants, but that she should make sure she really wants to do it. And I advised her again to consider working for a few years in industry. I mean, that is what an engineering degree is for, right?

Next year will be tough (2nd year in engineering school), and the 3rd year she is spending in Europe. She is bilingual French/English (dh is French; I am American), and has never gone to school in a French-speaking country before. That is going to be expensive for us, too. 

I really appreciate your advice, drerio. I am going to share your post with dd. Thank you.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Congrats on having a hard-working child. I would say no to grad/med school. Undergraduate yes, but grad school can be done with student loans. None of my friends' parents paid for their med/law or grad school and mine didn't either.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> JMHO
> 
> who know whats in store for the health care industry with Obama Care.
> 
> I would encourag her to stick to engenering.


Well, when she switched her interest to engineering from pre-med back in high school (the more physics she took, the more she started leaning towards engineering), I was relieved. So much cheaper! So much faster!

But the bug is back. The research she is doing involves diabetes, I think, or maybe cancer. Not sure. She is really into it.

We will certainly be supportive, whatever she decides to do.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Omego said:


> Congrats on having a hard-working child. I would say no to grad/med school. Undergraduate yes, but grad school can be done with student loans. None of my friends' parents paid for their med/law or grad school and mine didn't either.


Thanks.  These are my instincts, too, but dh sees it differently. 

I think your post is very reasonable.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

jld said:


> Dd19 is a freshman in chem engineering, doing very well. She is thinking about going to med school after she graduates.
> 
> She is just a wonderful girl in every way, and if we were millionaires, I would not think twice about paying. But we are not.
> 
> ...


I would pay for mine, or help pay, etc., but my situation is not your situation.

Hearing your situation, I see your dilemma, and I think your idea is a good one. The kid could work for a bit, make some money and then see if she wants another stab at it.

Money earned is always more appreciated than money provided.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

jld said:


> I am thinking 200k. I really don't see how we are going to be able to pay that in full. Loans would have to be a part of it. And I just don't think it is our responsibility. _That is where dh and I see it differently._
> 
> She is also considering the PhD route. She spends a lot of her free time in the lab now. Sat. nights are lab nights for dd, and she loves it. She was planning to go in on Easter to check her cells, lol. Her friends are almost all grad students.
> 
> ...


If, as an undergraduate, she is already cutting her teeth on cell culturing rather than just simply making up solutions for grad students and she loves, I would encourage her to go the PhD route. 

What she has ahead of her is 4 - 6 years of a PhD program followed by 1 - 2 post-doc positions lasting anywhere from 1 - 3 years. Hopefully followed by a junior level appointment (Junior researcher, Assistant professor, etc). If she shows promise in both attaining grants and publishing peer-review transcriptions her long term potential to move upward is great and she will find decades of satisfaction. I cannot say that for all my medical doctor colleagues. 

I wish her all the best in her academic endeavors.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

drerio said:


> If, as an undergraduate, she is already cutting her teeth on cell culturing rather than just simply making up solutions for grad students and she loves, I would encourage her to go the PhD route.
> 
> What she has ahead of her is 4 - 6 years of a PhD program followed by 1 - 2 post-doc positions lasting anywhere from 1 - 3 years. Hopefully followed by a junior level appointment (Junior researcher, Assistant professor, etc). If she shows promise in both attaining grants and publishing peer-review transcriptions her long term potential to move upward is great and she will find decades of satisfaction. I cannot say that for all my medical doctor colleagues.
> 
> I wish her all the best in her academic endeavors.


Yes, dh just said it is cell culturing. And yes, she loves it. And she is just a freshman, drerio. And so serious.

Her professors are already talking to her about the PhD route. And of course, hanging with all those grad students, she sees just what it is like.

Well, like I said, she is definitely going to see your posts.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, apparently I misunderstood dh. He said we are not going to pay for it; he simply wants to loan her the money. 

All right, maybe this looks a little different.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

jld said:


> Yes, dh just said it is cell culturing. And yes, she loves it. And she is just a freshman, drerio. And so serious.
> 
> Her professors are already talking to her about the PhD route. And of course, hanging with all those grad students, she sees just what it is like.
> 
> Well, like I said, she is definitely going to see your posts.


I would definitely encourage it. You are a student for life, just eventually you get paid to do it


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

See if she can also get involved in learning transformations and transfection techniques of cells. She will be leaps and bounds above her colleagues in graduate school. Also, I would encourage her to see if she could work in an animal lab with mice, zebrafish (my personal bias, _Danio rerio_) and learn some techniques there as well. 

Well, I am off to engage some undergraduates in the details of the Central Nervous System (parting lectures before finals week)


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Military scholarships explained on Wikipedia.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

jld said:


> We're only paying $2k a semester, because of all the scholarships. The high SAT and ACT scores were key there, as our kids are homeschoolers and so the transcripts are not trusted as much, I think.
> .


Congratulations. We homeschool too and they're years ahead of their cohorts.

We decided not to pay all college expenses for them. They're going to be personally responsible for the decisions they make. Each of them gets a $50,000 grant from us for college, and they can spend it on the college/degree of their choice. 

Medical school students have all kinds of loan opportunities because they make so much money after they get the degree.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

jld said:


> Okay, apparently I misunderstood dh. He said we are not going to pay for it; he simply wants to loan her the money.
> 
> All right, maybe this looks a little different.


As long as you have the means to afford your other children the same loan. Even if half your children decided to pursue higher education can you afford to take on that many loans? 

I only mention this because I know a family that paid for their daughter's schooling and when their son came along and said he was going the same route they could do nothing but provide the same. 520k took a chunk out of their retirement lifestyle. It's a good thing they only had 2 kids.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, if it is going to be a loan, it should be okay. I have been thinking about this, too, coffee . . .


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, fellow homeschooler (Happyfamily). 

$50k is a nice grant! Glad to hear your kids are doing so well.

I love homeschooling. For us, it really has been great.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

jld, when the time comes have her look at the loan rates and payback time if she takes it out. A lot of the student loans have low rates and time given to be paid back which might be better than you guys having to loan her the cash upfront. 

Its enough to drive you up a wall looking at the totals of all this. We are doing this now with my step daughter, just got our first letter on what the tuition bill will be. I couldnt get to the liquor cabinet fast enough.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Jld, send me a PM, I may be able to help her in thinking about areas of research that she may want to consider.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

drerio said:


> Jld, send me a PM, I may be able to help her in thinking about areas of research that she may want to consider.


Thank you, drerio.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> jld, when the time comes have her look at the loan rates and payback time if she takes it out. A lot of the student loans have low rates and time given to be paid back which might be better than you guys having to loan her the cash upfront.
> 
> Its enough to drive you up a wall looking at the totals of all this. We are doing this now with my step daughter, just got our first letter on what the tuition bill will be. *I couldnt get to the liquor cabinet fast enough*.


I hear you, Eagle. I hear you.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I work for a large medical/research facility.

there is not much money being spent on research. people are being laid off and grant money is really hard to get today. I know that the desire to do research is strong in some people but I would advise to look at all possibilities concerning her future career path.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

jld said:


> Hi, fellow homeschooler (Happyfamily).
> 
> $50k is a nice grant! Glad to hear your kids are doing so well.
> 
> I love homeschooling. For us, it really has been great.


How sincerely thrilling, actually. We've not talked with any other homeschool parents. With me out of the job market, $50K is all we can realistically accomplish without living what my husband calls the "austerity budget". 

We'd like to say we are planning on the same thing your kids have achieved, which is the financial assistance you get through monster SAT/ACT scores. We are doing everything we can to put that opportunity in front of them, and it takes work. Well, it is a great joy to me so I don't mean drudgery. It isn't a sure thing, but both of them seem to be go-getters. It's exciting. 

Maybe down the road I can work part time, get my PE and do consulting/project work, whatever. We could save more then. But for now I have plenty to do.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

It is really hard to decide how much to give your kids. My philosophy is that they need to have some skin in the game and they are not going to live to a standard of living that is reserved for someone who works. I have three kids - one is a junior in college and actually is an Athlete - first few years only 30% scholarship - this year 60% and next year is moving to 100%. She also has one year of eligibility after her fourth year (she redshirted) so she is going to get her masters and that will be 100% covered as well. So, she will not owe a dime as we both will have contributed. FYI, the school she goes to is $25k per year not including the fact that I pay for their vehicle and insurance and other living expenses that she has.

For my second daughter who starts this August - she has about 40% worth of scholarships - she has to maintain a certain GPA for them to continue - my agreement with her is that if the 40% goes away - she will take up a student loan to make up half the difference. If she wants a masters or higher - I will split it with her - she will have to get a loan for the other half. When she works during summers, she can spend half the money anyway she wants - the other half is to contribute towards the education - so that I pay less.

My third child, we will see what the deal is going to be - still have three years left before he goes off.

In the end, all of my kids will contribute to this endeavor one way or another.

If any wanted med school and it costs 100-200K, I would co-sign for a loan and maybe pay for 25% - that would be it though. 

I can afford to pay for everything for all kids - but, I think it would be damaging to do that and certainly not as rewarding for them. First two kids luckily got scholorships so that is thier contribution - hopefully my youngest can pull that off as well or it may cost him a little more than his sisters. Someday when I am gone, they will inherit enough to cover any loans they ever had to take out.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Aspydad said:


> It is really hard to decide how much to give your kids. My philosophy is that they need to have some skin in the game and they are not going to live to a standard of living that is reserved for someone who works. I have three kids - one is a junior in college and actually is an Athlete - first few years only 30% scholarship - this year 60% and next year is moving to 100%. She also has one year of eligibility after her fourth year (she redshirted) so she is going to get her masters and that will be 100% covered as well. So, she will not owe a dime as we both will have contributed. FYI, the school she goes to is $25k per year not including the fact that I pay for their vehicle and insurance and other living expenses that she has.
> 
> For my second daughter who starts this August - she has about 40% worth of scholarships - she has to maintain a certain GPA for them to continue - my agreement with her is that if the 40% goes away - she will take up a student loan to make up half the difference. If she wants a masters or higher - I will split it with her - she will have to get a loan for the other half. When she works during summers, she can spend half the money anyway she wants - the other half is to contribute towards the education - so that I pay less.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

Omego said:


> Congrats on having a hard-working child. I would say no to grad/med school. Undergraduate yes, but grad school can be done with student loans. None of my friends' parents paid for their med/law or grad school and mine didn't either.


Sure, it can be done without loans. Here's some data on that subject:

https://www.aamc.org/download/152968/data/debtfactcard.pdf

Average public med school cost is $220K, and a lot more for a private school. The average debt taken on is about $170K for public schools and more for private.

There are a number of debt forgiveness programs, one in our state that is too good to be true, but it is so many years away from now that we can't count on it being there. 

Anyway, trying to stay on point here about med school debt: This kind of borrowing is against an asset they call human capital and the investment return is astronomical. The median salary is way over $300K. We're enemies of debt except in cases where it represents a secure investment like a medical degree. That's why loans are so easy to get.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

No, we are only paying for their undergrad degrees.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I of course wonder sometimes if I will even have any money left for undergraduate since we are currently paying for private school (primary and secondary years).


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Don't do for one child that you can't do for all. Can You Pay Equally To All Your Children Even If THEY Dont GO To Med school?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Sbrown said:


> Don't do for one child that you can't do for all. Can You Pay Equally To All Your Children Even If THEY Dont GO To Med school?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope so.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

Aspydad said:


> Athlete - first few years only 30% scholarship - this year 60% and next year is moving to 100%. She also has one year of eligibility after her fourth year (she redshirted) so she is going to get her masters and that will be 100% covered as well.
> be it though.


Here's something I hadn't given enough credit to, and congratulations. 

I'm not into sports. But here's something sports can be good for! My husband is teaching ours MMA but with homeschooling and a sport that isn't collegiate - we have no chance of a college sports scholarship. I'm sure it was a big investment of time and resources to accomplish that, getting a college scholarship. :smthumbup:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> She has also talked about doing a PhD. She is doing research this semester, and was offered an assistantship over the summer. She loves working in the lab.
> 
> 
> 
> But if she goes the PhD route, we won't have to pay anything.



He he. Marry an obnoxious but high earning person and get them to pay - worked for us :rofl: :rofl: 

Cost of a medical education can be frightening -120k min at a state school in state and living at home but 120k is not a lot of money if you will be making 170-180k off the bat. Means, loans and some parent help. If dd gets to a better med school we are talking 200k easily.

I would advise against working after undergrad if she can get thru the MCAT ok. Also she needs to take more classes to align with the MCAT requirements... And then some. 

Have her talk to the premed advisor if her school has a biology premed track or in general to a biology adviser. He/she will tell her the needed stuff. She will need a couple semesters biology which may not be part of ChemE and also some class(es) to deal with the lolz part of MCAT. She will also need to butter up various faculty advisers to provide the dreaded recommendation letters and line up some health related volunteering...

The md/phd route is an option but a monumentally expensive one in terms of losing 4 years of MD wages to pay for this 120-200k. Also monumentally low paying once you put the phd part to good use in academia or fed government or industry compared to private practice. You can see why loans actually make sense. 

My younger one is a double major neurobiology / French and aspiring to med school as well. We figure 50/50 loans and family funds.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yeah, she is starting some biology classes in the fall. I am sure she will have no trouble getting rec letters; they love her there.

So you don't think she should work first, huh?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Lots of reasons. You fall out of shape learning. I had a decade or more between my MS and PhD and it required Herculean effort to do it at first. I trounced my classmates in terms of learning ability - I am a better learner now than I was at 25 - but still...

There's also practical issues taking the MCAT - things stay in your head easier after a year rather than several. You'll be older starting, not a good thing. Tracking profs for rec letters... Having to chase away suitors :rofl: etc.

If the thought is to work as a ChemE and save some dough, maybe not a bad idea but too risky. She'll be competing for admission with kids that had it much easier in college and could muster better grades, so...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She has lived in a few countries, and I think she would enjoy doing that as an engineer. For sure she will be a manager in a company. She is a leader.

My concern with medicine or research is the lack of travel opportunities. I think she is going to be bored confined to one country.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My girl is planning for Doctors Without Borders. We haven't told mom yet....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Medecins Sans Frontieres . . . Quelle bonne idee!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Loaning money to a family member causes nothing but problems.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I am very anti-student loan. However, you can borrow to go to med school. You can't borrow for retirement. So, if you have 4 more to put through, you tell the daughter that med school is on her dime. There is no shame in that.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> Dd19 is a freshman in chem engineering, doing very well. She is thinking about going to med school after she graduates.
> 
> She is just a wonderful girl in every way, and if we were millionaires, I would not think twice about paying. But we are not.
> 
> ...


Chances are if your daughter even gets accepted to med school they will take her only when she graduates and not let het work for a few years. Those who apply after being in another field almost never get accepted. It's very hard to get in and you have to do it on their terms. The norm is for parents not to pay for graduate or med school and only help pay for undergraduate degrees. That's what I plan to do.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

Another option is attending a foreign med school. Some do this because they couldn't get in to their preferred schools. But it can also be way cheaper. There's pros and cons, but if you don't have the grades or don't have the money then this is how you retain the objective of practicing medicine.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It is cheaper but the process for recognizing the credentials in the USA is not so simple...


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Other than international docs recruited from abroad specifically for their research, in my neck of the woods the folks with degrees from foreign medical schools are typically called "research assistant". It is very challenging to get credentialed in the US and even harder to get a job and privileges, especially if you're already a US citizen.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

What is you and your husband age, how much debt, and how much in retirement? 

For me it's all about the numbers


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> What is you and your husband age, how much debt, and how much in retirement?
> 
> 
> 
> For me it's all about the numbers



Our premed daughter IS our retirement


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> It is cheaper but the process for recognizing the credentials in the USA is not so simple...


Right, but this has been going on for decades and the system is pretty well understood. The Caribbean schools are probably the best known for this. There are huge differences in residency/salary potential by specialty, from like $150K through $350K or even higher, so you pick a specialty that has high pay and security of residency. And if you are assigned to Timbuktu Wyoming for residency, that's what you have to do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She's a freshman and 19. In 4 years she could very well change her mind about this.

If she wants to go to medical school she can get loans. She most likely will not need anyone to co-sign. If she goes to a state school the cost will be a LOT less.

If she makes it through medical school and residency, she can negotiate a contract to join a practice, hospital, or whatever, that pays for part, or all of the school loans. That's how it works.

If you pay her way through, she will not get that extra bonus of her employer/practice paying the cost of her medical school.

Once she is working as a doctor, if you want to help her you to reduce the debt, why not. But why would you foot the bill now for something an employer might very well cover later on.

There is also ROTC and the military paying for medical school.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> Chances are if your daughter even gets accepted to med school they will take her only when she graduates and not let het work for a few years. Those who apply after being in another field almost never get accepted. It's very hard to get in and you have to do it on their terms. The norm is for parents not to pay for graduate or med school and only help pay for undergraduate degrees. That's what I plan to do.


This is not true. I know many people who had careers before going back to medical school. my ex did this. He had a MS in electrical engineering and worked as an engineer when at 35 he applied and was accepted in medical school.

I was stupid and paid his way. Should have had him get loans, etc. Then he could have taken the debt with him and I'd still have my $$


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> This is not true. I know many people who had careers before going back to medical school. my ex did this. He had a MS in electrical engineering and worked as an engineer when at 35 he applied and was accepted in medical school.
> 
> 
> 
> I was stupid and paid his way. Should have had him get loans, etc. Then he could have taken the debt with him and I'd still have my $$



Same with one of the docs in my group. She was an engineer for several years before she did an MD/MPH program. Did several fellowships in the Beltway before landing here even.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Both my husband and I went to professional school at the same time. We chose the school carefully (state run with more reasonable tuition) and kept up our grades to qualify for scholarships. 

We paid for it by a combination of loans, employment, very frugal living, scholarship money and some help from out parents. 

One semester, we had breakfast food for 3 meals because it was cheapest. I think it was one of the best periods in our lives.

The thing is that it never occurred to us to burden our parents with debt for our dreams. They were working class with good salaries from the trades. But they would have had to sacrifice for us. 

Parents don't have as much time to recoup money spent on an education as the their children have. I think parents footing the bill for a professional degree is a bad investment in the future on both sides.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ah, Berkeley was $6k a year in the early 80's tho. Not today. 

The school I did my MS was like $2k/year back then, and I had tuition waiver and $8k/yr research assistantship from a federal agency related to little green men. I paid no taxes whatsoever (tax treaties) and had a VERY good college life. My company paid for my PhD via fellowship. 

Good days. Can't do it today tho. Research Assistantships for MS degree are very hard to impossible to come by and funding for PhD is very cutthroat.


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## wanttofix (Jun 4, 2013)

I wouldn't. If my son wanted to go to medical school, I would recommend he go to Europe. Specifically Germany.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

jld said:


> Yeah, she is starting some biology classes in the fall. I am sure she will have no trouble getting rec letters; they love her there.
> 
> So you don't think she should work first, huh?


I think so. I wish I had done that but my aprents were so keen to shunt me into grad school. You got to get to the "world of work" at some point in your life.

I come from a family of fine doctors so I hear the industry gossip. That is, today, becoming a doctor is not a guaranteed ticket to a mid 6 figure income which will help you to wash away all the debt.

Most doctors are treated as nothing more a hired hands on a wage at HMOs, insurance managed hospitals and government agencies.

And what someone else mentioned, I think itis / was called Public Health. The government can send you out to Indian reservations and other obscure places. That's fine as long as you don't fall inlove, get married and start having babies. I can think of 2 couples that had to deal with it. IT was not fun. One, my exBIL, after much pushing got placed somewhere where the commute was 2 hours each way. Well better than a Northern Exposure experience.

Engineering is such a great major. Let her work some before she goes into more debt. And she will go into debt unless you and your husband can truly underwrite everything.

I have a cousin who in the 80s just had to go to HArvard Med School. Crippled in debt, he wasn't able to open the medical practice that he dreamt of. HE worked for an HMO where they had targets: ie, only so many minutes with each patient; prescribe only generics or else go through the mountain of paperwork to prescribe a medicine still on patent.

And my cousin said, if you don't meet those targets, you will get bullied. 

He finally got a job with one of the big worldwide consulting / accounting firms, now advising those HMOs on how far they can go to keep _their_ costs down AND their profits up.

Now my IP lawyer fiance tells me that no one goes into that area of law without an engineering degree (and law school is only 3 years instead of 4 years and you won't have to pay for the cadavers or the expensive science labs.......)

Have a talk with her and with other people who are knowledgeable about the job prospects of an engineering grad. If she still decides on med school, then she will have been fully informed and will have less risk of regret. 

i have met people who have started med school and sometimes even finished it and still couldn't bear the thought of being a doctor. Whether they are making any more money at the pharma companies or investment banks that employ them than their peers who may only have an undergrad degree and / or a 2year master's degree...... I just don't know.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Fascinating post, NTA! You are so knowledgable! Thanks for chiming in! 

She is getting a lot of encouragement from her profs to go the PhD route. She loves working in the lab, and is so devoted to her studies.

Really, we will be supportive, whatever she decides to do.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

NTA, my experience has been different. I'm one of a few scientists working on a large company that makes interesting stuff people use. Most of my team is engineers. I do not see a future in most engineering down the road. Too much outsourcing and little job safety. Too much pressure, long working hours, etc. Hard to justify $100k salaries stateside when there's people in India willing to work for a third of that...

Law school after engineering and then IP law... Maybe 20 years ago. Law school today is three letters, T14 or else. There's a reason law school apps are drastically down. Too many people in it. Used to be great, not any more.

As for pharma... My wife worked in big pharma IT for a dozen years and could not get out fast enough... Big pharma has no job security and little pharma is not much safer. 

Both my kids are in college hoping for research type degrees - one in design and one in neurobiology and medicine.

But we are in he Midwest...


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

I think any parents who can and are willing to pay for undergrad is amazing. My parents helped me but they made it clear that i got 4 years at a basic college, no ivy league, not 5year, not grad school, not studying abroad, etc...

I would also not recommend loaning the money either. So many family conflicts start from loaned money. It causes too much tension of when to pay it back, at what rate, with interest or without, what is one of the parties fall onto hard times. Anytime you give money to a family member make sure its a one way GIFT, not a business transaction.

I like the idea of having her get the 4 year degree, find a job for a year or two and then go back. My wife got her engineering degree, after undergrad she decided she wanted to get her masters, after that she said she wanted to get her PHD, i put my foot down and said she needed to get a job and work for a year or two and then if she felt she needed the PHD she could go back part time or something. Well guess what, she hates her job! Talk about 6 years of education down the drain. She has told me multiple times going to grad school was a big mistake, if she would have got a job right out of under grad she would have saved $40,000 in grad school tuition and made an additional $100,000 by working plus she could have then gone back and got a different masters degree that would have allowed her to do something different that she might have enjoyed.

A PHD take 9 years or more to complete, thats a long time to comprehend for someone who is only 18 years old, thats half their life! As another example, my sister wanted to be a veterinarian, she went to school for over a decade, got her degree and a great job, 2 years later she got married, had a child and quite working, that was 5 years ago and the last time i talked to her she has no intention of every working again. My parents still to this day are mad at her for that.

I dont know what route your daughter will take in life and chances are she has no clue either at this point. I would provide her with the good basic solid foundation of a bachelors degree and if she is truly motivated she will make the rest happen on her own. Plus if she becomes a Dr. she will be able to pay back any loans she took out in the first couple years.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

john117 said:


> NTA, my experience has been different. I'm one of a few scientists working on a large company that makes interesting stuff people use. Most of my team is engineers. I do not see a future in most engineering down the road. Too much outsourcing and little job safety. Too much pressure, long working hours, etc. Hard to justify $100k salaries stateside when there's people in India willing to work for a third of that...
> 
> Law school after engineering and then IP law... Maybe 20 years ago. Law school today is three letters, T14 or else. There's a reason law school apps are drastically down. Too many people in it. Used to be great, not any more.
> 
> ...


There's very little job security anywhere these days. The people who get rewarded in our economy these days are the business owners / investors hedge and private equity funds. 

Just like Mit Romny.... at the same time his vehicle Bain Capital was buying up companies, gutting them, firing people and letting them come back on lower salaries, he was lobbying Congress to lower the tax rates of dividend payouts which is how he and his colleagues received their compensation. 

There is no longer job security ......salaries and benefits are stagnant. An economist wrote a book, can't remember his name right now, saying that in the near future to work will be a privilege as in a proper job. The majority of people will be getting by on welfare benefits and whatever else can be scrunged up.

In any case, as I said, a med degree doesn't guarantee easy street either these days. So it would be wise to get the degree when one is good and ready and possibly at the local state university where it will be cheaper.


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## Tmj4477 (May 3, 2014)

No way! If she wants to go let her find her own way. If you co-sign you will be stuck with those loans forever! There is no need to sacrifice your future livelihood...you've got a life to enjoy too. 

Don't do it! There are people who have been paying student loans for decades it's not worth it. If you want to help let her go to a school close and live with you for free


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, I hear you, TMJ. 

I think dd is going to go the PhD route. She just loves working in the lab. 

And she got another 4.0 this semester. She is doing chem eng., which is not an easy major. She told me she would be lucky to get a B in physics, and ended up with a straight A! 

Dh and I are so proud.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ah... Another lab rat :rofl:

View attachment 23562


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I was originally planning on going to medical school(finished all the pre-reqs for it), but ended up deciding against it. I knew all along that my parents would help pay for my undergrad(and the did, love them for that.), but would not put any money towards medical school. After undergrad, we're on our own. I find that to be completely fair and know if I decide to go to medical school eventually, I can get loans and do other things to make it financially.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Dd19 is a freshman in chem engineering, doing very well. She is thinking about going to med school after she graduates.
> 
> She is just a wonderful girl in every way, and if we were millionaires, I would not think twice about paying. But we are not.
> 
> ...


No. Because I see a disconnect between chemical engineering and medicine.

However, what I might do is to encourage her to become a volunteer paramedic and see how she gets on with that. 

If she's OK, then look at helping her with med school, but not entirely funding it for her. 

You and her could take a look at this US-based site for some guidance VolunteerEMS.org - The directory of Emergency Medical Services volunteers


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

So simple...

You paid for undergrad and it's a huge gift. The medical field pays well, she should have no problem finding loans. Don't co-sign, dont help. You taught her to fly now let her wings take her.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I wouldn't do it JLD... we are dirt poor in comparison to your families income though!

Our oldest went to the State college nearest us ...and I'm hoping every one of them after him chooses the same.. All his loans are in *his name*.. in this way.. if he needs help, and we have it ...we can offer to help pay them down....but it's not infringing upon us, or we'd feel strapped with debt.. 

I often think the kids who pay their own way take it more seriously...though it sounds your daughter is brilliant , focused and she wouldn't take advantage...



> *jld said:* I think dd is going to go the PhD route. She just loves working in the lab.
> 
> And she got another 4.0 this semester. She is doing chem eng., which is not an easy major. She told me she would be lucky to get a B in physics, and ended up with a straight A!
> 
> Dh and I are so proud.


No doubt you are proud..she's amazing !!...People that smart intimidate me, I feel so small next to them!! No doubt she will go FAR in life and her career...no matter what she sets her hands to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think if you guys make that much money - that's a LOT! - and you can afford it and she is THAT good of a kid, tell her you'll loan it to her and she can start paying it back as soon as she starts working. You can have that money put into a separate account that will help the next kid (although it'll be a good 10-15 years before she's earning) to do the same. I don't like having good, hard-working college students having to scrape to get by when they should be concentrating on learning. Of course, if she starts to become a party hound or something, all bets are off.

Aside from that, I wouldn't be getting into specifics yet if she's just 19. She's going to be changing her mind a LOT between now and age 23. Trust me, BTDT, and my DD was absolutely POSITIVE about her post-PhD career path. Now that she's got her BS and is getting real-world experience, she's changed her mind twice on what her next step and ultimate goal are.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My older knew she wanted to study design since age 8, for sure since age 12-13. She's looking to focus on Middle East art and architecture so..... Many years of college there.

The younger is premed but I would not put it beyond her to do md/phd or law/phd. She's interested in neurobiology and biopsychology (dream job: forensic psychiatry / psychology at the FBI)...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I wouldn't do it JLD... we are dirt poor in comparison to your families income though!
> 
> Our oldest went to the State college nearest us ...and I'm hoping every one of them after him chooses the same.. All his loans are in *his name*.. in this way.. if he needs help, and we have it ...we can offer to help pay them down....but it's not infringing upon us, or we'd feel strapped with debt..
> 
> ...


I think state schools are great, SA. Our dd is at a state school. What value!

Dd is very mature for her age. She hangs out with grad students, and works with them at the lab. She is actually helping with some research that, when published, will have her name on it.

You'd feel fine with dd, SA.  She is not intimidating at all. She is very calm and quiet and helpful. And she loves photography, just like you! And I am sure she would love to see your garden. She has many interests outside of school.

I think the best thing that happened to me after marrying dh was having dd. I love all my kids, but my daughter is truly a gift. She has always been so helpful in every way. She was the bone marrow donor to our oldest son when he had his first bone marrow transplant. She is taking her 3 youngest brothers to France this summer to stay at their grandparents' house. I think it is as good as having dh or me with them.

Dd is like dh in many ways, definitely her father's daughter. Great work ethic, and you just feel trust in her right away. 

When she comes home in a few weeks, I want her to help me sort out the basement. She is really good at projects like that. And the house is never so clean, and the meals so good, as when dd is home. I'm telling you, she surpassed me years and years and years ago.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

turnera said:


> Aside from that, I wouldn't be getting into specifics yet if she's just 19. She's going to be changing her mind a LOT between now and age 23. Trust me, BTDT, and my DD was absolutely POSITIVE about her post-PhD career path. Now that she's got her BS and is getting real-world experience, she's changed her mind twice on what her next step and ultimate goal are.


I don't think she will change her major, but she may decide to do med school. Or she may decide she wants to work in industry for a while. 

I really think she'll be fine whatever she decides to do. I am just telling her to do whatever she really _wants_ to do.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> My older knew she wanted to study design since age 8, for sure since age 12-13. She's looking to focus on Middle East art and architecture so..... Many years of college there.
> 
> The younger is premed but I would not put it beyond her to do md/phd or law/phd. She's interested in neurobiology and biopsychology (dream job: forensic psychiatry / psychology at the FBI)...


I think that md/phd program sounds really interesting. It is a long program, but worth it, I am sure.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It is, but hey, it beats working


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

IMHO unless you have more money than you know what to do with then you should be up front and honest with your children.

All mine know that my wife and I will support them financially until they are 18 but by that time they will have to come up with a plan to support themselves. Be that full time employment and evening classes or full time education for which they are responsible for repaying their loans is up to them.

Do not get me wrong I would not see them starve but everybody needs to learn how to be responsible for their own finances and not expect their family (or the state) to provide.

The "bank of mum & dad" is not a bottomless pit to be relied upon by kids for a bail out should they make the wrong chooses.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed. However, SOME people will want to carry on with education far beyond what the average citizen does. And that entails a huge financial burden - in the short term - to enable a higher-level career and earning potential for the long term. If they're capable of allowing that child to accomplish that, and that child is definitely DOING the work to get through it, they're not being a slacker; they're investing in a future. Plenty of time for them to pick up the reins in 8 more years after their training is done.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

turnera said:


> Agreed. However, SOME people will want to carry on with education far beyond what the average citizen does. And that entails a huge financial burden - in the short term - to enable a higher-level career and earning potential for the long term. If they're capable of allowing that child to accomplish that, and that child is definitely DOING the work to get through it, they're not being a slacker; they're investing in a future. Plenty of time for them to pick up the reins in 8 more years after their training is done.


I can see the logic in this but I would not encourage parents to spend their retirement funds on their children's education and then be dependent on others in their later years. 

Yes you would hope that any child fortunate enough to have their education funded by their parents through into their 20's would if needed support those same parents in the later years but there are no guarantees they will be in a position to do so even if they are willing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wiltshireman said:


> I can see the logic in this but I would not encourage parents to spend their retirement funds on their children's education


If you'll notice, I said IF you make that much money, go ahead. So, yes, I agree.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The questions is what assessment you use to determine greatness - if you have a truly smart and hardworking kid it's not quite as easy to tell her to work at Costco and go to med school at the same time... 

One of our friends took six years to get a BS chemistry from a ho hum state school (repeated courses to get an A...) then ho hum state med school then ho hum residency then changed his mind and did another residency.... Granted, they did not pay for residencies but it's still serious money.

Contrast with another friends kid who breezed thru double major Biochem and something humanities at a top school, breezed thru med school, three residencies and fellowships, and now a highly successful specialty surgeon. 

You can't just generally dismiss things without looking at the individual.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Honestly, if we could afford it, then yes I wouldn't hesitate to do it. As it stands now we are aiming to hopefully finance all 3 undergraduate degrees when they get there, assuming they will pursue them. Beyond that, unless we get a financial windfall doubt we'll be able to do more than that.


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## Jetoroal (Dec 24, 2014)

My parents were kind enough to pay for my law school. I will forever be grateful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

As someone who spent a lot on further education and now has difficult finding quality paying worth in their field, I'd seriously have a long think about all of this.

First, if God forbid anything happens to you or your husband's jobs, and you loan the money to her for this, what happens to the other children? Are they on their own? What happens if she takes out this loan and has difficulty repaying it because she can't find high paying work.

What will be the term of her repayment? Can you offer her 25 years to repay like a government loan would? 



> The questions is what assessment you use to determine greatness - if you have a truly smart and hardworking kid it's not quite as easy to tell her to work at Costco and go to med school at the same time..


.

In my experience, someone else paying for things is what tends to encourage the "ho hum" attitude, because you have a lot less stake in the game.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Repayment?

Loan?

By the time my girls graduate I'm looking at a total cost of $400-500k for both... One a PhD in design and the other an MD. We are 1/3rd of the way there. 

Neither girl has taken a ho-hum approach thankfully tho many of their friends did.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

My questions/comments were for the OP.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Right now she is leaning towards a PhD or MD/PhD program. She has been doing research in a lab for the past year and loves it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

From all you have shared about your academically gifted daughter who is 110 % devoted to her field of study.... anything to help her out.. would be so worth it.. what you can afford.. squeezing it some..

It's when our kids are partying, living it up, taking advantage of our kindness and money- that's when I'd YANK IT.. but when they are appreciative and show it in how they are soaring in their studies.. you can't help but be so very proud , wanting to do all you can.. it's an investment that will bring many rewards....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If I could afford it, I would do it! But that's not the case! I helped with my boys tuition through their first two years

Other than for some scholarships and some menial jobs that they do, their tuition is jointly being underwritten by their rich, skanky Stepmom. Now just how long that will continue is contingent on her continued good relations with them paired with her impending nuptials with her new stage door Johnny, although being a poor boy like me, he should have no discernible element of control on any of her wealth!

The only reason that I haven't "ratted her out" to her family and friends is that she would cut them off in a heartbeat if I ever did! But I will bide my time until they are no longer in need! Kind of like a pit bull frothing at the mouth while staring longingly at a large meat bone being displayed in a butcher shop window!*


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

SA, our kids know they can't get away with it . Not for more than a semester so.... Plus neither is a big partier.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Hi, jld, (long time no see)!

My brother took the exact path your DD is on. He was a chemical engineer (Bachelor's and Master's) for Exxon Oil for 10 years and made good money. He decided it wasn't for him and went to medical school.

The money he had saved and his wife's income helped him through med school. His grades were so excellent that he skipped the 4th year (an option available ONLY to students with excellent grades) and started his residency a year early. He is marking his 20th year in medicine this year.

I would suggest *this* as the most viable plan for your daughter. Help her with her Bachelor's (and possibly a 1-year Master's) and let her make it from there.

She could 'borrow' for school; you cannot 'borrow' for retirement.

Best wishes!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, SGW. Nice to see you, too! 

She is leaning more and more to the PhD or MD/PhD route. She really wants to do research. 

I am assuming there will be financial support offered if she goes either of these routes. Hope that is true.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's what my DD24 is doing - psychological research. She's applied for both PhD and Masters programs this year. If she doesn't get in the PhD program, and gets in Masters, she'll have to pay for those two years. If she gets in the PhD program, she'll get about $10,000 a year - assuming she becomes a research assistant and helps teach and do research.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Back in my days in the MS Psych program pretty much graduate funding was readily available and most students has some funding. But that dried out in the 90's and only PhD level funding was generally available. In some schools like the very top schools there's more funding at either level but the acceptance rates are not all that great.

Even my own way of funding for PhD is becoming extinct. In our fat cat days mid 90's they were funding a few fellowships a year and I snagged one. We paid for my wife's PhD about half and half (she was a TA but it was not full funding)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, the schools' gotta pay for those fancy new block-long gyms and new stadiums...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Fully funding her undergrad is a huge gift. 

1. I agree that she should work for 2 years with her engineering degree - med schools like that - and the experience will benefit her. 
2. During that time she can also develop a good credit score

At that point I would cosign her med school loans if needed for her to get them. AND I would get cheap 'term life insurance' in the amount of the loans until they were paid off. 

Actually - if you can get 'mortgage insurance' for the loans - that will even be cheaper. 







jld said:


> Dd19 is a freshman in chem engineering, doing very well. She is thinking about going to med school after she graduates.
> 
> She is just a wonderful girl in every way, and if we were millionaires, I would not think twice about paying. But we are not.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mine graduated May 2013. She went straight to work full time at a major hospital's psych department, saved up money, then quit and has been doing free internships/research assistants at two other institutions ever since. That experience will go a long way on the applications.


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## LoveBeingFemale (Nov 5, 2012)

Is your and your husband's retirement fully funded?? If yes, then help. If not, then no.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Nobody's retirement is fully funded...


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## LoveBeingFemale (Nov 5, 2012)

Of course there are. There are people, they are in the minority, who are financially independent and do not worry about retirement.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Fully funding her undergrad is a huge gift.
> 
> 1. I agree that she should work for 2 years with her engineering degree - med schools like that - and the experience will benefit her.
> 2. During that time she can also develop a good credit score
> ...


Medical studies are long enough, why waiting 2 years? Plus, she is only interested with the research part of the medical degree, not the patient interaction.

If the studies can be financed, I would encourage anyone to do them right away. The likelihood of restarting studies after a few years of work is much lower.

Other than for a business degree, I do not think doing a degree after some work experience makes you a better professional.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, but sometimes that's what gets you IN to the program.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> . The likelihood of restarting studies after a few years of work is much lower.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than for a business degree, I do not think doing a degree after some work experience makes you a better professional.



Well the first one is right but at 35 I was so much smarter than my young 20's classmates it wasn't even close. So the phd was easier to get in the grand scheme of things. At 35 I could comprehend material faster, write orders of magnitude better, and focus on the right stuff.

The second may be true - or not. Having the PhD after my name gives me a bit of gravitas. But did it teach me a lot of new skills? Not many. It's over specialization. But it's fun.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm afraid I haven't read all eight pages of this so will only respond to the thread 'heading'.

If I could afford to pay for med school for either of (or both) my children yes I would. I would even mortgage the house!

No one can ever take a good education away from you.

The world will always need doctors, teachers and funeral undertakers!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mortgage the house? I've mortgaged my soul


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

jld said:


> Thanks, SGW. Nice to see you, too!
> 
> She is leaning more and more to the PhD or MD/PhD route. She really wants to do research.
> 
> I am assuming there will be financial support offered if she goes either of these routes. Hope that is true.


Hey JLD, just read the first page and last couple pages of this thread.

Just wanted to say, like Simply Amourous wrote, if you think she's good for the degree, help with whatever barriers you can - there is no point co-signing, why give all that interest money to the bank? She said she'd pay you back for her undergrad, which you say was your gift to her - so apply that rule to this post-grad degree instead. If you are good enough for the bank to co-sign her loan, you can afford to lend it yourself at no additional risk - you are not made of money, but when she is working she will have the means to repay you, so you will not have lost financially. Of course, it all hinges on how much risk you feel investing in her there is. Do a risk analysis, if you can't afford it, certainly don't co-sign a bank loan.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, everybody, for chiming in. Just want to stress that our daughter is interested in doing medical research either as a PhD or in an MD/PhD program. 

Going to ask that the thread be closed for now . . . Thanks again.


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