# Conventional Beauty. Help or hindrance?



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

There are some beautiful women that post here and, I assume, some handsome men. Although my handsome guy picker is probably skewed.

In your opinion as a conventionally beautiful/handsome person has it been an advantage or a disadvantage to be that way?

Or as I suspect has it been useful and is now a right royal pain in the arse?

Or as someone who knows a beautiful/handsome person well what are your thoughts on their life?

I'm talking photo shop film star/starlet looks here, drop dead gorgeous stuff.

I can imagine that it could be useful initially, perhaps opening 'doors' more easily or 'doors' that might be closed to others.

But there must be times when it is a complete pain in the butt.

For instance if you are a woman, happily married, but every time your hubby goes to get a drink, use the toilet, whatever, some complete knobhead goes to move in and tries his PUA stuff on you. It must get to the point where you think "FFS leave me alone"


----------



## pinkslippers (Dec 16, 2013)

I truly don't know any naturally beautiful women. Everyone I know needs make-up and hair styling to look the way they do.
Now, my husband, on the other hand, is very good looking. He's very tall and skinny, but nicely built. He also has a tint of gray in his hair, green eyes, and a boy-ish looking face. For some reason, women go crazy over it. No matter where we go, he turns heads. It's really annoying to me. Like, I'm just trying to buy cereal in the grocery store and some girl keeps checking him out. They probably think we make an awkward pair.
Anyways, he's never had a problem meeting girls. He doesn't have to say anything-people are just drawn to him....especially the damsels in distress that want rescuing....which again, is annoying.


----------



## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

pinkslippers said:


> He doesn't have to say anything-people are just drawn to him....especially the damsels in distress that want rescuing....which again, is annoying.


My husband has had to deal with damsels in distress as well. I too find that behavior to be annoying. Considering that you find this behavior to be annoying as well, how do you deal with it?


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

An old friend of mine was absolutely gorgeous,.and she used to complain that it was hard to get dates because guys were intimidated by her, or afraid/assumed they'd be rejected.


----------



## whattodoskidoo (Sep 13, 2013)

As a beautiful woman, the most frustrating thing for me has been the assumption that I must have absolutely no brains to go with it. When people/men find I have a master's degree in applied mathematics, they look shocked and have said some pretty dumb things.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

People have such poor boundaries...even with their eyes. Just because someone may be beautiful...it doesn't mean that they ought to be eye-harrassed around every corner. My wife is fairly pretty...but she has PTSD...and just gets set off when she starts hitting the gym, feeling good about herself, and then just the creepers come out of woodwork, not caring if someone has a ring or not.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

always_alone said:


> An old friend of mine was absolutely gorgeous,.and she used to complain that it was hard to get dates because guys were intimidated by her, or afraid/assumed they'd be rejected.


This was something else I was going to mention. A drop dead gorgeous woman may find this. Not so sure if a drop dead gorgeous man would find the same problem.

Luckily, today, a woman is generally expected to be much more forward with men she finds attractive and can make the first move. However it must be tiresome to _have_ to make the first move more often than not. And I think that even in these more enlightened times women do like a man to be a man.

Certainly back in my day a woman who overtly made the first move was regarded as very forward. And if you were dealing with a shy guy you had to drop hints the size of house bricks that you were 'interested'.

So yes, I can definitely see this as a problem, and instead of normal guys approaching you it becomes a stream of PUA wannabee faux alphas.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> So yes, I can definitely see this as a problem, and instead of normal guys approaching you it becomes a stream of PUA wannabee faux alphas.


Yes, exactly. Drove her crazy. And taking charge of the situation and asking men out wasn't really an option for her. She had a pretty traditional mindset about such things, and even though women were supposedly liberated already, those were still days when men were put off by "forward" women. (Have those days ended yet? Seems to me not, from what I read here.)

Last I heard from her, though, she was very happily married. So it worked out in the end


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

always_alone said:


> Yes, exactly. Drove her crazy. And taking charge of the situation and asking men out wasn't really an option for her. She had a pretty traditional mindset about such things, *and even though women were supposedly liberated already, those were still days when men were put off by "forward" women. (Have those days ended yet? Seems to me not, from what I read here.)*


It's funny, I am the traditionalist type very much so... and I feel the complete opposite of you, I feel this forum if tipped Liberal sexual views / independent feminist views reign ...in comparison to those who are older fashioned, more Traditionally minded like myself.....Heck if you even have belief in God here, you seem to get put down.... so I disagree....If I had a scale, I would say it is *75% Modern Views* to *25 % more Conservative minded / Traditional views*....

I guess what happens here is.. we always feel we are the ones outside of the box...typical I guess.

Being older Fashioned minded....I believe a man needs to show his ROMANTIC intentions* 1st.*...

I am naturally a warm & friendly person if someone talks to me, talking to strangers comes pretty easy even... but I let them come to me...it would end there if the man didn't take it to the next level... to me, that would clearly spell he was *not* interested.. 

If my  & a shared conversation is not enough to spike a man's interests, I think a woman would be foolish to pursue... barking up the wrong tree....

When a man feels a woman coming after him, generally he looses interest...the more Alpha he is..the more TRUE this is ..... as they LIKE a little chase and desperate women are a huge turn off. 

Shy men are different, or men who are a little insecure, HE may be flattered ...thrilled even. 

My husband was Mr shyness.. it was my friendliness that allowed him to take that leap with me.. and show his interest...and very quickly.... within a week of our meeting. 

For me, this is very very precious... if I had to move on him..somehow I'd feel that took away from our story.. call me weird..


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm not conventional in my beauty but I'll admit life is probably easier all around when you like how you look and feel that wearing a smile and contributing to a beautiful environment for others is as good a public service as any. 

I don't take my smarts for granted either, and try to share what I was gifted in my work in public service sectors. 

If I was less attractive and less intelligent I would probably have the same attitude. Maybe it really is all about attitude, anyhow. Attitudes are beautiful, people's looks follow that.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

whattodoskidoo said:


> As a beautiful woman, the most frustrating thing for me has been the assumption that I must have absolutely no brains to go with it. When people/men find I have a master's degree in applied mathematics, they look shocked and have said some pretty dumb things.


Again this was in mind when I posted the thread. I would imagine that even in these more enlightened times beautiful = bimbo. I've also been pre-judged when younger, not for good looks I hasten to add.

People tend to decide who and what you are based on how you look and seem to them.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yes, exactly. Drove her crazy. And taking charge of the situation and asking men out wasn't really an option for her. She had a pretty traditional mindset about such things, and even though women were supposedly liberated already, those were still days when men were put off by "forward" women. (Have those days ended yet? Seems to me not, from what I read here.)
> 
> Last I heard from her, though, she was very happily married. So it worked out in the end





SimplyAmorous said:


> It's funny, I am the traditionalist type very much so... and I feel the complete opposite of you, I feel this forum if tipped Liberal sexual views / independent feminist views reign ...in comparison to those who are older fashioned, more Traditionally minded like myself.....Heck if you even have belief in God here, you seem to get put down.... so I disagree....If I had a scale, I would say it is *75% Modern Views* to *25 % more Conservative minded / Traditional views*....
> 
> I guess what happens here is.. we always feel we are the ones outside of the box...typical I guess.
> 
> ...


Yes, agree.

But as I am sure you ladies are, or were aware, there are many ways for telegraphing your interest in a guy. From the subtle to the outright obvious.

Most of us men are a bit dense with these sorts of things (at least I was) so a little hint goes a long way.

It's no good sitting there all aloof and wondering why the guy in the room you really fancied never even said hi.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm not conventional in my beauty but I'll admit life is probably easier all around when you like how you look and feel that wearing a smile and contributing to a beautiful environment for others is as good a public service as any.
> 
> I don't take my smarts for granted either, and try to share what I was gifted in my work in public service sectors.
> 
> If I was less attractive and less intelligent I would probably have the same attitude. Maybe it really is all about attitude, anyhow. Attitudes are beautiful, people's looks follow that.


Yes confidence in yourself is also very attractive, and to me beats mere physical beauty any day of the week.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yes, exactly. Drove her crazy. And taking charge of the situation and asking men out wasn't really an option for her. She had a pretty traditional mindset about such things, and even though women were supposedly liberated already, those were still days when men were put off by "forward" women. (Have those days ended yet? Seems to me not, from what I read here.)
> 
> Last I heard from her, though, she was very happily married. So it worked out in the end


Always nice to hear of a 'happily ever after.'


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

I was always unattractive, but I was smart and people generally respected me. Then I lost 100 lbs and became conventionally attractive... holy moly. Complete shock to me how differently I was treated... absolutely threw me for a loop. It made me distrustful ... how could I know if someone was being nice to me because of my looks or because they were a nice person? I ended up becoming more introverted as a result. Now I'm about 7 or 8 years into it and starting to show my age a little bit in how I dress and carry myself, and I've noticed that people are back to treating me how they used to. 

When I was "hot", people really wanted to talk to me, but I didn't want to talk to them as much.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

pinkslippers said:


> I truly don't know any naturally beautiful women. Everyone I know needs make-up and hair styling to look the way they do.
> Now, my husband, on the other hand, is very good looking. He's very tall and skinny, but nicely built. He also has a tint of gray in his hair, green eyes, and a boy-ish looking face. For some reason, women go crazy over it. No matter where we go, he turns heads. It's really annoying to me. Like, I'm just trying to buy cereal in the grocery store and some girl keeps checking him out. They probably think we make an awkward pair.
> Anyways, he's never had a problem meeting girls. He doesn't have to say anything-people are just drawn to him....especially the damsels in distress that want rescuing....which again, is annoying.


OMG! My H is leading a double life! Oh wait, maybe not. He have been gaining a few lbs lately so he's moving away from being lean.


----------



## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I was a conventionally good-looking guy when I was young (even had girls telling me I was beautiful which was very good for my confidence, which was otherwise very low). I lost my looks young with my hair (by the time I was 35) and as my eyesight deteriorated and I had to wear thick glasses.

The only important and wonderful long-term benefit it gave me was that it meant I had enough confidence in my appearance to make a pitch at that really beautiful young woman I met when I was 22 and who has been my wife now for 36 years. I was the really lucky one here as she kept her looks when I lost mine. 

So my benefit was that I got to marry her. I hope she would say the same about me!


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

You can learn a lot about men, from studying their body language when with women and vice versa. This is the basis of my observations.

From watching men, for example, when they are confronted with someone 'out of their league', it makes me sad to see how obvious their internal struggle is. When you ignore beauty and just speak to them normally then they act like normal friendly people. The better looking a woman is, the more grateful they are to have small-talk and company. They offer their contact details, where an average woman would never have the confidence to do this on the first encounter. 

I genuinely believe that the best looking women must have very sad lives, with so few people to talk to them without trying to impress. Exaggerated beauty is a curse for them.

For a handsome man, however the world is his oyster. Not only is it easy to find any kind of woman and career he may want, but people also assume he is intelligent, successful, competent etc. As he ages, and people practically push him up the ladder, he can become more attractive, rather than less, so his wife faces more competition as time goes on, just as her looks are fading. 

For a man, to be handsome opens all doors. The constant barrage of female attention also ensures that his partner is highly unlikely to tempt fate by looking elsewhere. From observing the giggly-girl syndrome, I can now recognise when a guy is average, above average, and stunningly handsome. There is a huge gulf between the Adonis and normal men. In a sense, women are even more compelled by physical attraction than men are, just that it's directed toward fewer specimens.

I would like to know if I am on the right track. I think I am, but always welcome more input from women, esp. on interpretation.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> But as I am sure you ladies are, or were aware, there are many ways for telegraphing your interest in a guy. From the subtle to the outright obvious.
> 
> Most of us men are a bit dense with these sorts of things (at least I was) so a little hint goes a long way.


Not me! I was (probably still am) as dense as any guy about such things. Probably denser. 

Not only did my SO have to make his intentions crystal clear, he had to wade through my zillions of reasons why he shouldn't like me.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Being older Fashioned minded....I believe a man needs to show his ROMANTIC intentions* 1st.*...


It's this idea that men should be the pursuers that I was thinking of specifically. You may be right about the overall breakdown -- depending on how you understand "traditional" and "modern -- but there is (by my reckoning, at any rate) a very strong sensibility that men should be the alpha hunters and women the submissive and responsive ones.

Hmmm. Almost makes me want to start a poll...


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I genuinely believe that the best looking women must have very sad lives, with so few people to talk to them without trying to impress. Exaggerated beauty is a curse for them.


Don't kid yourself, beauty opens a ton of doors for women too.

And while men aren't typically giggly, they will trip all over their tongues to do just about anything for the privilege of a smile and thanks from a beautiful women. Including leaving their wives and girlfriends juggling six bags of groceries while walking down an icy street.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I asked Batman, "Has being handsome been a help or hindrance in your life?" He answered that it's a help... it might not be right, but it can make some things easier. In work for example (he's client facing and dresses sharp), it can help give you an in but you still need the substance behind you to stay and advance. He feels he's handsome 'enough' and he'll take that. 

"So being ridiculously good looking has made your life easier?" 

He blushed and said "I'm not ridiculously good looking." before adding, "The only thing exceeding my good-looks is my humility."


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> You can learn a lot about men, from studying their body language when with women and vice versa. This is the basis of my observations.
> 
> From watching men, for example, when they are confronted with someone 'out of their league', it makes me sad to see how obvious their internal struggle is. When you ignore beauty and just speak to them normally then they act like normal friendly people. The better looking a woman is, the more grateful they are to have small-talk and company. They offer their contact details, where an average woman would never have the confidence to do this on the first encounter.
> 
> ...


A rather stark viewpoint Sandfly?

I suspect that although your post is grounded in truth human relations are a little more subtle and complex than that.

Yes, the 'beautiful people' get an 'in' but a dunce is a dunce no matter how pleasing to the eye. Eventually incompetency will be found out (not always but that's life)

It just means that 'plain janes' or 'homely guys' have to try harder.

Perhaps I'm naïve but I do believe that skill and competency will _tend_ to trickle to the top.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Not me! I was (probably still am) as dense as any guy about such things. Probably denser.
> 
> Not only did my SO have to make his intentions crystal clear, he had to wade through my zillions of reasons why he shouldn't like me.


Well I'm glad it's not just us guys that need a kick up the jacksy sometimes!


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

always_alone said:


> It's this idea that men should be the pursuers that I was thinking of specifically. You may be right about the overall breakdown -- depending on how you understand "traditional" and "modern -- but there is (by my reckoning, at any rate) a very strong sensibility that men should be the alpha hunters and women the submissive and responsive ones.
> 
> Hmmm. Almost makes me want to start a poll...


Yes, but if a woman just sits there and expects guys to go and chat her up she is quite likely going to get a string of PUA's and pump n dump alpha types approaching her. And perhaps the odd normal guy who has screwed up his courage to go and talk to her.
Heck, smile at the guy when he glances at you, laugh at his rubbish jokes etc.

SimplyAmorous talks about her hubby 'making moves' on her but I'm pretty sure that she made her interest known both consciously and subconsciously.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I asked Batman, "Has being handsome been a help or hindrance in your life?" He answered that it's a help... it might not be right, but it can make some things easier. In work for example (he's client facing and dresses sharp), it can help give you an in but you still need the substance behind you to stay and advance. He feels he's handsome 'enough' and he'll take that.
> 
> "So being ridiculously good looking has made your life easier?"
> 
> He blushed and said "I'm not ridiculously good looking." before adding, "The only thing exceeding my good-looks is my humility."




He sounds like a fun guy!

As you say, you need the substance behind you. Good looks are just another tool in the tool box, if you use the same tool too often it gets worn out!


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I also think our perception of beauty changes as we age.

There were girls in our class that most guys wouldn't look twice at when we were young.

But seeing them later in life they had matured into accomplished, confident and beautiful women.

I assume the same thing happens with guys.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> There are some beautiful women that post here and, I assume, some handsome men. Although my handsome guy picker is probably skewed.
> 
> In your opinion as a conventionally beautiful/handsome person has it been an advantage or a disadvantage to be that way?
> 
> ...


All the beautiful people I've known never actually knew they were beautiful so I never heard them complain about it being a disadvantage.

To me,the more nice looking you are the easier things seem to be.

I'm very happy to be average.Constantly getting hit on would make me feel so uncomfortable that it would overshadow the flattered feeling that may possibly come along with it. 

It sounds odd but I get more flattered if I'm hit on when conversing in forums than in real life. LOL At least I know on a forum they're hitting on my personality and not my face or body


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> A rather stark viewpoint Sandfly?
> 
> I suspect that although your post is grounded in truth human relations are a little more subtle and complex than that.
> 
> ...


MMmmm, I put it starkly.

I think I mistook the subject of conversation, I thought we were talking about outliers. The ones whose beauty is obvious to everybody without need for make-up or fancy clothes. SB says the really beautiful ones didn't know they were... I don't understand that. Is this a reference to inner beauty, radiance ?

In the case of men, people assume Cluney, Pitt and Depp are intelligent, so they often become the 'face' of various political causes - yet if you really listen to them, what they say doesn't exactly blow you away. What does Cluney know about Ukraine? But there he is, reading a script written for him by the govt. and people listen. 

Of course, even then, someone like Beckham can't hide the fact that he is dumb, but if he weren't handsome, his dumb-ness wouldn't be 'cute', it would be offensive... so even here his handsomeness means he gets no ridicule... no downside! Someone equally beautiful, but female such as Kelly Brook, has a harder time - she gets ragged for being stupid, and she only seems to be able to date untrustworthy player types... is it because normal men's confidence around her evaporates?
That would be a sad phenomenon, wouldn't it... to only be attracting the wrong sort of guy.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> MMmmm, I put it starkly.
> 
> I think I mistook the subject of conversation, I thought we were talking about outliers. The ones whose beauty is obvious to everybody without need for make-up or fancy clothes. SB says the really beautiful ones didn't know they were... I don't understand that. Is this a reference to inner beauty, radiance ?


It wasn't a reference to anything really.Just the people who I felt were really stunning visually didn't seem to notice it. These are people who look beautiful no matter what they're wearing.


----------



## MarthaMellow (Dec 30, 2013)

Attractive people have an advantage, until they aren't as attractive, It's a shock when people (strangers mostly) begin treating them differently. Generally speaking, the greater the beauty (man or woman) the less they've worked on their personality. 

Beauty opens the door, but doesn't get you a seat at the table.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

For me its been a hinderance. Women just want me for my body. Geez I wished I was born rich instead of good looking. Seriously I have no clue what it would be like to be handsome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> You can learn a lot about men, from studying their body language when with women and vice versa. This is the basis of my observations.
> 
> From watching men, for example, when they are confronted with someone 'out of their league', it makes me sad to see how obvious their internal struggle is. When you ignore beauty and just speak to them normally then they act like normal friendly people. The better looking a woman is, the more grateful they are to have small-talk and company. They offer their contact details, where an average woman would never have the confidence to do this on the first encounter.
> 
> ...





WyshIknew said:


> A rather stark viewpoint Sandfly?
> 
> I suspect that although your post is grounded in truth human relations are a little more subtle and complex than that.
> 
> ...


Just saw this quote in a book I'm reading. This describes what I mean. It doesn't matter if you were born pig ugly just do the best you can.


Ita in vita ut in lusu alae pessima jactura arte corrigenda est,

As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws.

Falkner, John Meade (2012-05-17). Moonfleet (p. 8). . Kindle Edition.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I know that being in good shape and having a good bit of self confidence will get you employed easier than the same bloke who is disheveled, even if he has the same qualifications. I've hired people in the past, and had that happen to me as well. When I was job hunting some years back, my body fat was at 10%, and I found a job easily. Had I been at 30%, I think I would have had to work harder for it. It's how you're perceived -- book meet cover.

In my younger years, I was intimidated by gorgeous women. I was more at ease with average looks. I think because I perceived they had something "going on" that I couldn't perceive, or be part of? That they could be too easily stolen from me? Hell, I've had the average ones stolen from me too... 

In later life, like past 40, I have a totally different understanding. Looks don't mean a damn thing if your beauty is only skin deep.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> I know that being in good shape and having a good bit of self confidence will get you employed easier than the same bloke who is disheveled, even if he has the same qualifications. I've hired people in the past, and had that happen to me as well. When I was job hunting some years back, my body fat was at 10%, and I found a job easily. Had I been at 30%, I think I would have had to work harder for it. It's how you're perceived -- book meet cover.
> 
> In my younger years, I was intimidated by gorgeous women. I was more at ease with average looks. I think because I perceived they had something "going on" that I couldn't perceive, or be part of? That they could be too easily stolen from me? Hell, I've had the average ones stolen from me too...
> 
> In later life, like past 40, I have a totally different understanding. Looks don't mean a damn thing if your beauty is only skin deep.


Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes to the bone!


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes to the bone!


Heh... my mom used to say I was rotten to the core and even that was rotten. Hmmm :scratchhead:


----------



## laniegirl84 (Sep 3, 2013)

You say drop dead gorgeous and photo shop film star as though people like that actually exist. And it really does differ based on culture and a person's values how "beautiful" someone is. But if you are asking the opinion of women who get a lot of attention based on their looks, then I say it depends on how badly I want something. When I was younger, I was paid a lot of money to be a "prop" at big parties for clients of large businesses. I certainly enjoyed the money, but I think the biggest thing that made me successful was my intelligence and personality. When I was wanting to make an impression, I turned up my smile, used my wit, acted coy and charming and spent a lot of time listening to people tell me about themselves. I often had men flocking to me, offering to buy things for me, take me out, fly me to anywhere I wanted to go. It was a high. And exhausting. Eventually I would get burned out, and then I would go out on a regular Saturday night with friends, stay quiet and aloof, and not have a single male even look in my direction, much less ask me to dance. And when I did, it would be a completely clueless oaf who couldn't understand that I was uninterested but eventually went away. I would wear the same clothes and hair styles and still it would seem that whether I got attention was based solely on whether I wanted it. 

Now I am a little older (approaching 30), and I still have the same experiences. So, in my experience of the world, I have gotten what I wanted by using what I have, but only in shallow senses.

I have attracted a lot of men but I always end up being a projection of what they have wanted me to be. I adapt my personality well, and I try to be agreeable, so lots of men have found themselves in love with an ideal. My own H is just now learning that I am not who he thought I was (I was not intentionally trying to fool him, but I kept my own opinions to myself for a long time). I think it is easy to fall for a beautiful woman, but it is not always easy to love one. Often men will turn her into someone he thinks she should be, and the woman will be so blinded by the adoration that she will feel that she must live up to this fantasy.

It also does me no good because the women men truly love are not the stunners, but the women who always were exactly who they are and never had to live up to some false ideal.

Of course, that could be my own experience of the world.


----------

