# Disciplining Kids who are running riot in a restuarant



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I could have posted this anywhere but disciplining kids was just brought up in a post and I thought it would make for an interesting discussion, because a few weeks ago I got into a 'altercation' in a restaurant about the same thing.

I was enjoying a lovely Sunday lunch with family (I had flown to see them for a weekend visit) so it was a treat for me. There were 3-4 little kids (4-5 yrs) jumping up and down on a stage area right beside out table. The parents were at the far side of the restaurant not bothered, one even fell of the (low stage), and they were making a right noise. I told the kids to go back to their parents and made a comment about it was not a kindergarten. A relative of the parents was at the next table and stood up to protest my statement and told me I had no right as the kids were not doing anything wrong. I told him they were disturbing my nice Sunday lunch and time with my family and I too was a parent but my kids had manners.
Then I was told by his eating companion I was a very sad person! WTF. :scratchhead:

What is it with some parents who think their kids are like rabid dogs and can run wild when they are in a restaurant and that everyone else has to put up with it. 
I have reared my children, to either sit at the table and behave. If you cannot control your kids, then keep them at home. I get the feeling in this country, it is acceptable. 

I lived in mainland Europe for a few years and there was no way that kind of behaviour would be tolerated. You would be asked to leave.


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Who knows. This stuff makes me crazy too. Why can't parents actually _parent_?
Imagine what monsters they must be at home!! That's why the parents send them off to the other side of the restaurant to bug other people besides them. They want some peace and quiet, but aren't willing to train and discipline their kids to get that result.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Some people just can't parent....and think other people should just accept their kids. I really don't understand this ...my kids knew that look that meant they were in trouble.

My cousins kids came to visit and jumped all over my white chairs leaving dirty foot prints everywhere. I yelled at them to sit and she said they don't yell at them. I told her she needed to because they didn't know how to behave. They left soon after


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

aine said:


> I could have posted this anywhere but disciplining kids was just brought up in a post and I thought it would make for an interesting discussion, because a few weeks ago I got into a 'altercation' in a restaurant about the same thing.
> 
> I was enjoying a lovely Sunday lunch with family (I had flown to see them for a weekend visit) so it was a treat for me. There were 3-4 little kids (4-5 yrs) jumping up and down on a stage area right beside out table. The parents were at the far side of the restaurant not bothered, one even fell of the (low stage), and they were making a right noise. I told the kids to go back to their parents and made a comment about it was not a kindergarten. A relative of the parents was at the next table and stood up to protest my statement and told me I had no right as the kids were not doing anything wrong. I told him they were disturbing my nice Sunday lunch and time with my family and I too was a parent but my kids had manners.
> Then I was told by his eating companion I was a very sad person! WTF. :scratchhead:
> ...


I agree that they shouldn't have let them do that in the restaurant and should have respected everyone's right to eat peacefully. But I don't agree that it always has to do with "bad" parenting. Some parents believe kids should be "kids" and to them that means not curtailing their loud and energetic behavior, not yelling at them. But it doesn't mean that you can impose your parenting beliefs on a whole restaurant in a place where that is not the prevailing belief system. If most people in the society around you believe children should be quiet and respectful in restaurants, then you have to accept and respect that too. 

Also, from my own experience in my marriage, parents can have conflicting belief systems on how to raise children. If just one parent doesn't believe in disciplining children and teach them to be calm and quiet in public places, the other parent will never be able to teach that to their kids. Kids are naturally energetic and loud, so if one parent allows that, the other parent will not have any success in training the kids to do otherwise. I hate that so much because I know how to teach my kids to behave well, but it always fails because my husband doesn't support or like that parenting style. When I go in public with my kids out of control and misbehaving (and I mean to the grocery store, places I _have_ to go to) I see people shaking their heads at me and judging me that I'm a bad parent. That's just not fair to be judged like that when I do have the skills to be a good parent.


----------



## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

In a situation like this it is more effective to pass the problem on to someone else, I would ask the restaurant staff to deal with it. I would happily tell them that unless they asked the parents to deal with the kids then I would leave without paying.


----------



## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

I would have absolutely asked the manager to correct the situation, as it was disturbing our meal. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

luxnoctis said:


> I agree that they shouldn't have let them do that in the restaurant and should have respected everyone's right to eat peacefully. But I don't agree that it always has to do with "bad" parenting. Some parents believe kids should be "kids" and to them that means not curtailing their loud and energetic behavior, not yelling at them. But it doesn't mean that you can impose your parenting beliefs on a whole restaurant in a place where that is not the prevailing belief system. If most people in the society around you believe children should be quiet and respectful in restaurants, then you have to accept and respect that too.
> 
> Also, from my own experience in my marriage, parents can have conflicting belief systems on how to raise children. If just one parent doesn't believe in disciplining children and teach them to be calm and quiet in public places, the other parent will never be able to teach that to their kids. Kids are naturally energetic and loud, so if one parent allows that, the other parent will not have any success in training the kids to do otherwise. I hate that so much because I know how to teach my kids to behave well, but it always fails because my husband doesn't support or like that parenting style. When I go in public with my kids out of control and misbehaving (and I mean to the grocery store, places I _have_ to go to) I see people shaking their heads at me and judging me that I'm a bad parent. That's just not fair to be judged like that when I do have the skills to be a good parent.


If your kids misbehave in public places, do you have a problem with disciplining them there and then? I never did, and there would always be consequences, the kids soon learned that when mummy gave 'the look' it was time to pull back on the exuberance. I didn't care who was watching or what their opinions where, to my mind that would be a perfect learning moment.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MrsHolland said:


> In a situation like this it is more effective to pass the problem on to someone else, I would ask the restaurant staff to deal with it. I would happily tell them that unless they asked the parents to deal with the kids then I would leave without paying.


We did but the manager (whom my family knows) was reluctant to as the other family had just spent lots of money with a large group of people at different tables. It is a small community so it was probably awkward, I don't live there so had no problem speaking my mind :grin2:


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

aine said:


> If your kids misbehave in public places, do you have a problem with disciplining them there and then? I never did, and there would always be consequences, the kids soon learned that when mummy gave 'the look' it was time to pull back on the exuberance. I didn't care who was watching or what their opinions where, to my mind that would be a perfect learning moment.


No I didn't have a problem with that. It simply doesn't work.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@aine, my recommendation would have been to go to the manager and notify them of the disruption to yourself and the other people around you.
It was likely not only you and your family that was disturbed by their bad behavior.

Many places fear the social media s**tstir that can happen when a place allows disruptive behavior... particularly on a Sunday when it's obvious that families are going to be there to enjoy a meal in peace.

The parents should have taken the kids AWAY. I remember asking my mother whether I used to have tantrums (because I never recalled from memory ever having one). She said that I had one tantrum when I was about 4 while at a public place and she took me OUT and HOME immediately. That was the first and last time I ever had a tantrum in public.

Parents really have no idea how much influence they can have on bad behavior. They just don't seem to want to do what is necessary these days, because their "fun" gets ruined, too. I guess that's the price you pay... next time get a babysitter!

ETA @dianaelaine59 beat me to the recommendation - sorry that I didn't see it!


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I have been known to "accidentally" trip little savages misbehaving in public. If the parents won't put a stop to it and it's illegal for me to overtly do it... well, I'm not having a rare time out ruined by someone else's brats.

My brats misbehaved or started to act disruptive, we went to the car for a "talk".


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> No I didn't have a problem with that. It simply doesn't work.


Why doesn't it work? Those children are young enough to pick up and take outside.

When my son was young, he learned that when he acted out in a store or restaurant it was time to leave. So he learned that if he wanted to stay, he behaved.


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Why doesn't it work? Those children are young enough to pick up and take outside.
> 
> When my son was young, he learned that when he acted out in a store or restaurant it was time to leave. So he learned that if he wanted to stay, he behaved.


We used to always go out together and my husband never allowed them to be taken outside for bad behavior, although he would threaten that (no follow-through). I think I was able to take my oldest outside when he was acting up about 3 times total, and of course it worked. But my son is very tall and strong now; his doctors, dentists, anyone who has to treat him have all said he really strong. When he needed fillings, he was given a sedation liquid, laughing gas, and wrapped in a papoose and still it took me and 2 other staff members to hold him down for the fillings. Now with a one year old two, it's very difficult to drag both of them out of the grocery store for misbehaving.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Whenever Ol' Arb was a kid and showed his a$$, more especially out in public, my Dad, Mr. Arb always took control of the situation and took the palm of his great big hand and created a severe amount of friction between it and Ol' Arb's gluteus maximus, which always brought forth alligator tears for all the world to see!

You may be dead and gone, but thank you, Kind Sir, for giving me the discipline that I needed, whenever I unilaterally got out of hand! Followed up by a tearful apology to anyone whom my actions may have affronted!

Rest assured that that same loving discipline was passed along to both of your grandsons and I'm so proud to say that they are both the model gentlemen that I absolutely couldn't be prouder of! *


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> We used to always go out together and my husband never allowed them to be taken outside for bad behavior, although he would threaten that (no follow-through). I think I was able to take my oldest outside when he was acting up about 3 times total, and of course it worked. But my son is very tall and strong now; his doctors, dentists, anyone who has to treat him have all said he really strong. When he needed fillings, he was given a sedation liquid, laughing gas, and wrapped in a papoose and still it took me and 2 other staff members to hold him down for the fillings. Now with a one year old two, it's very difficult to drag both of them out of the grocery store for misbehaving.


Today, my son is 6"4' now at age 28. So he was a very big child at 3 or 4 years old. I am 5'3".

At one point, my son started acting up very badly in stores and anywhere else. He about 3 or 4 years old. So I stopped taking him to stores. And I made sure he knew when I went to the store that he was not going because he did not behave himself. After a while he started begging to go with me and he promised that he behave himself if I took him. He learned that the only way he could go out with me is if he behaved.

If your husband lets your children misbehave in public, you are right that you will have a hard time teaching your children to behave if your husband will allow them to misbehave.

And if your husband teaches them that they an misbehave in public, they will one day face much harsher treatment by the public and the law. It is much better for a child to be taught to behave by their parent since most parents are loving. If the public and the police later teach them how to behave, the lesson is much harsher.

If you and your husband divorce, as it looks like will be happening, you will be able to parent your children as you see fit. He will parent them as he sees fit when they are with you. But at least they will have you to teach them to behave.


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Today, my son is 6"4' now at age 28. So he was a very big child at 3 or 4 years old. I am 5'3".
> 
> At one point, my son started acting up very badly in stores and anywhere else. He about 3 or 4 years old. So I stopped taking him to stores. And I made sure he knew when I went to the store that he was not going because he did not behave himself. After a while he started begging to go with me and he promised that he behave himself if I took him. He learned that the only way he could go out with me is if he behaved.
> 
> ...


Did your husband support you in that? The resistance I see from my sons is so overreactive because they know daddy would let them do it, whether or not he is there at the moment. I have been able to enforce some items during the day, like getting them to take their naps with less and less protestation. But it involves so much screaming daddy daddy help meeeeee!!! I can't do this in public. That may just be my personality but I don't think it means I'm too lazy or a bad parent because I am exhausted from trying to counteract everything my husband lets them get away with. It just never ends, every day starts over like all my hard work had no effect.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> Did your husband support you in that? The resistance I see from my sons is so overreactive because they know daddy would let them do it, whether or not he is there at the moment. I have been able to enforce some items during the day, like getting them to take their naps with less and less protestation. But it involves so much screaming daddy daddy help meeeeee!!! I can't do this in public. That may just be my personality but I don't think it means I'm too lazy or a bad parent because I am exhausted from trying to counteract everything my husband lets them get away with. It just never ends, every day starts over like all my hard work had no effect.


My son's father supported this in public. When he was young, my son would act out in public when he was with me only. When his father was with us in public, my son would not act out.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

luxnoctis said:


> We used to always go out together and my husband never allowed them to be taken outside for bad behavior, although he would threaten that (no follow-through). I think I was able to take my oldest outside when he was acting up about 3 times total, and of course it worked. But my son is very tall and strong now; his doctors, dentists, anyone who has to treat him have all said he really strong. When he needed fillings, he was given a sedation liquid, laughing gas, and wrapped in a papoose and still it took me and 2 other staff members to hold him down for the fillings. Now with a one year old two, it's very difficult to drag both of them out of the grocery store for misbehaving.


How old are you kids?

Normally, there should be consequences. I am sure there is something they really like as a treat? chocolate, go to the park, etc. Withhold the treat, that will send the message.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

luxnoctis said:


> Did your husband support you in that? The resistance I see from my sons is so overreactive because they know daddy would let them do it, whether or not he is there at the moment. I have been able to enforce some items during the day, like getting them to take their naps with less and less protestation. But it involves so much screaming daddy daddy help meeeeee!!! I can't do this in public. That may just be my personality but I don't think it means I'm too lazy or a bad parent because I am exhausted from trying to counteract everything my husband lets them get away with. It just never ends, every day starts over like all my hard work had no effect.


Time for you and your husband to get on the same page. If he is with you and the kids are acting out and he will not enforce, stand up and walk out and tell him to deal with them.


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

aine said:


> How old are you kids?
> 
> Normally, there should be consequences. I am sure there is something they really like as a treat? chocolate, go to the park, etc. Withhold the treat, that will send the message.


4 and 1. All things I have tried worked a couple times and then never worked again. I have withheld treats, cookies, going to the park, going to grandma's, going to the pool, everything he likes. He says noooo but doesn't stop misbehaving.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> 4 and 1. All things I have tried worked a couple times and then never worked again. I have withheld treats, cookies, going to the park, going to grandma's, going to the pool, everything he likes. He says noooo but doesn't stop misbehaving.


There are several things that could be in play here....

There are some kids who are very head strong and they are willing to lose just about everything to win. They just have to win every argument, every fight. Maybe your husband is like this???? Does he have to win every argument/fight? Could your son have learned that from him?

Sometimes you have to turn it around, if he behaves he earns doing things. 

When my son was little he would leave his toys all over the place. So I invented the messy monster. The messy monster stole kids toys that were left out all over the place. So for a few nights the put his toys away. Then one night he did not. When he got up in the morning the toys he left out were gone. He shrugged his shoulders and told me that he did not care because those were toys that he did not like much. He left them out on purpose to see if there really was a messy monster. So after that, he made sure to put away anything he really cared about. But the rest of his toys? He was ok with it if the messy monster took those.

Kids are thinking all the time. They are way smarter than a lot of people realize. And since they have very little power at their young age, they watch their marries very closely. They figure out very early how to manipulate their parents. If they can find a way to work their parents against each other, they have won because that puts them in power. Me thinks you son has figured out how to work the two of you against each other. Smart little guy. Now you need to figure out how to our smart him.

The best gift that parents can give their children is to work as a parenting team. The relationship between parents is the very foundation of a family. The children depend on the foundation. When the relationship between the parents is weak, a child (or the children) will work it so that they are the chaotic foundation of the family and they manipulate their parents. When this happens, the kids grow up in a chaotic, malfunctioning family and they usually grow up pretty damaged.

Since, based on your thread, your relationship with your husband is pretty bad, your children would be better off with the two of you divorced. That way in your home, you will be the foundation and you will be able to set rules for them without your husband fighting you.

There are some good books on parenting. You especially need one on how to parent very intelligent, heard headed boys.


----------



## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> There are several things that could be in play here....
> 
> There are some kids who are very head strong and they are willing to lose just about everything to win. They just have to win every argument, every fight. Maybe your husband is like this???? Does he have to win every argument/fight? Could your son have learned that from him?
> 
> There are some good books on parenting. You especially need one on how to parent very intelligent, heard headed boys.


Yes my husband has to win every argument. My son is extremely headstrong. He would rather stand still in a corner with an angry face than do anything at all when he is really upset. I've started to realize that finding a way to make hime laugh helps, although it can be very difficult. Mental illness runs in my family's and my husband's and I have BPD so he will be dealing with emotional/mental issues. I asked a pediatrician and she told me it can start as early as his age. I plan to enroll him in therapy from a young age to try lessen the impact of any inherited and learned problems.


----------



## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

I have two words for those kids and their parents: oleoresin capsicum.


----------



## BlueandBlond (Jun 20, 2016)

When parents take their kids out anywhere, they need to behave. When my kids were little, the sat and behaved. They did not get up from the table, there were no outbursts or tantrums and definitely no running around. We always took our kids out from the time they were born everywhere with us and taught them how to behave. They are now teens. I do not like to go to a restaurant to listen to children scream and cry. It if is a baby and the baby won't calm down, take it outside and hopefully the baby with calm down. If you have a child that is crying because he/she wants their own way, then you take them out of the situation. The rest of people don't want to listen to it when they are paying for a meal that they want to enjoy. If the child won't calm down, then leave as a family or don't come back in the restaurant. That goes for anyplace. I am shocked by parents today who let their kids run the show. Unacceptable! I even see teens today who are so disrespectful to adults and I am one that won't stand for that. I too have made a comment to a parent or two and that is my prerogative. You did the right thing. It was the other parents that were the ^*%&%*^.


----------



## Warrior73 (Jun 25, 2017)

aine said:


> I could have posted this anywhere but disciplining kids was just brought up in a post and I thought it would make for an interesting discussion, because a few weeks ago I got into a 'altercation' in a restaurant about the same thing.
> 
> I was enjoying a lovely Sunday lunch with family (I had flown to see them for a weekend visit) so it was a treat for me. There were 3-4 little kids (4-5 yrs) jumping up and down on a stage area right beside out table. The parents were at the far side of the restaurant not bothered, one even fell of the (low stage), and they were making a right noise. I told the kids to go back to their parents and made a comment about it was not a kindergarten. A relative of the parents was at the next table and stood up to protest my statement and told me I had no right as the kids were not doing anything wrong. I told him they were disturbing my nice Sunday lunch and time with my family and I too was a parent but my kids had manners.
> Then I was told by his eating companion I was a very sad person! WTF. :scratchhead:
> ...


I have friends that used to let their daughter behave this way when she was younger...aggravated me to no end. To run around at home is one thing but at a restaurant it is unacceptable behavior.


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

luxnoctis said:


> I agree that they shouldn't have let them do that in the restaurant and should have respected everyone's right to eat peacefully. But I don't agree that it always has to do with "bad" parenting. Some parents believe kids should be "kids" and to them that means not curtailing their loud and energetic behavior, not yelling at them. But it doesn't mean that you can impose your parenting beliefs on a whole restaurant in a place where that is not the prevailing belief system. If most people in the society around you believe children should be quiet and respectful in restaurants, then you have to accept and respect that too.
> 
> Also, from my own experience in my marriage, parents can have conflicting belief systems on how to raise children. If just one parent doesn't believe in disciplining children and teach them to be calm and quiet in public places, the other parent will never be able to teach that to their kids. Kids are naturally energetic and loud, so if one parent allows that, the other parent will not have any success in training the kids to do otherwise. I hate that so much because I know how to teach my kids to behave well, but it always fails because my husband doesn't support or like that parenting style. When I go in public with my kids out of control and misbehaving (and I mean to the grocery store, places I _have_ to go to) I see people shaking their heads at me and judging me that I'm a bad parent. That's just not fair to be judged like that when I do have the skills to be a good parent.


I have this issue with some of my adult kids who's beliefs on raising children are very different than mine. I tend to be more strict and concerned about how children's behaviors affect others. A couple of my adult children and their spouses believe children should be allowed "to be children" and run around and play in public places. They are not "bad" parents - they just have different points of view. That's how they see it - and so no matter what I say - which is usually that their children are bothering others - they blow it off, saying the children aren't hurting anyone or anything. Unfortunately - as much as I love these children and these grandchildren, it sometimes makes it so that I don't want to go places with them that I know will make me uncomfortable because of the children's behavior. I have been very firm on some rules at my house - that are not rules at their house - and the children know what the rules are and mostly follow "grandma's rules" cause they like to come to my house. (rules such as only eating and drinking in the kitchen - talking with inside voices, etc) The parents and grand-kids also know that when I am baby sitting them and we go out - the rules will be different than when their parents are there and in charge. My children respect my boundaries and will even say - "grandmas house - grandmas rules". Its sometimes hard - but we try to navigate these differences the best we can so that both sides feel respected. And most of the time - to be honest, I avoid restaurants with them - suggesting we go to the park for a picnic - or a fast food place with a play area instead.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think its very important that if you are taking you child out to eat they will behave. When my three were small, we couldnt afford to take them out to eat anyway, but in other situations such as visiting people and going to church, they were always really well behaved and if they hadn't been I would definitely have taken them outside.

We were in a restaurant the other day where a child of about 3 or 4 was crying and crying for ages. I looked over and she said "He isn't feeling well" What??? Why are you bringing the poor kid to a restaurant if he is ill?? He needs to be in bed or lying on the settee and resting, not disturbing the whole restaurant.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

My two siblings and I have never fought. Never. I don't understand the concept of sibling rivalry because we never had that. 

Everywhere "adult" we went when they were small, we were quiet, polite, and would look after each other if there were spills, bumps, bruises, etc. I remember one time, we were at church (back when I went) and there was a little boy being just horrid behind us. He kept kicking out his legs while playing "limp rag" in his mom's hands and he kicked my sister in the back of the head.

I'll never forget my 6 YO brother turning to the mom and saying, "you need to take him outside." and she just refused saying he'll calm down, he's just small. 

"My sister is smaller and she's behaving just fine." Everyone around us turned to her and she left with the screaming little kid crawling like a monkey on her face.

Every kid has a tantrum at times. It's when it's clear that a tantrum is a way of life that you start to question the intent and competency of the parents. Letting your kids cry it out in public is not parenting, IMO. It's avoidance and surrendering to their whim. Kids are smart when it comes to manipulation! Very smart indeed.

I knew a French woman when I lived in the UK. She had two little ones and when they were barely starting to be naughty, she'd just look at them and say "non!" with strength. That was all. I'd love to see more of that over here... Alas...


----------

