# Pull the plug.



## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I've just spent another sucky Friday night with my wife. The older kids were at their high school football game, and our middle girl had a friend over. Everyone was occupied but me. 

My wife was mindlessly on Facebook playing friggin online poker. I protested, so she invited me to play along. I pulled out my laptop and logged on thinking, well it least we are sort of doing something together. Well only sort of, because she asks me to log on from the kitchen and not my office, so I couldnt "see her cards." Like I would cheat for friggin online play poker, but I humored her anyway. 

I started to text her messages most of which were funny, but she doesn't reply. After about 30 minutes, I log out and put my laptop back in my office. It was then I realize she wasn't able to read my messages, because she was busy "chatting" with someone else. She was chatting with the husband of a close friend of hers from San Diego.

It's not that I'm the jealous type, I am not. I am just so tired of being "last in line" on her priority list. I feel neglected, unloved, and unappreciated. I have often posted questions about what a woman wants in a husband, but I guess I have wrongly focused my efforts. 

The more important question from my pespective is what do I want in a wife? I have given it great thought and have come to see that I am not getting anything back from my wife. 

I am tired of doing everything in my relationship. I am tired of being physically neglected. I am tired of being emotionally neglected. I am tired of cleaning the kitchen after a long day working. I am tired of spending my whole friggin Saturday fixing pool pumps and pruning plants. I am tired of an ungrateful wife. I am tired of asking God for the strength to forgive her. I am tired of beating the f*ck out of kickbags. I am tired of training 2+ hours a day to purge myself of the anger/hate I feel inside for this woman I once loved. I am tired of the shame that I feel over not being able to hold my marriage together. I am tired of busting my a$$ 7 days a week while she lives on autopilot. I am tired of the dream which has become a lie. I am tired of my wife.

I want to pull the plug on this relationship while I am still young enough to start again. How does one initiate a divorce? I don't want, nor can I likely afford a lengthy legal battle. We make, correction I make decent money, but we have "lived well" and "saved poorly". I thought wife's were supposed to be helpmates? Mine doesn't help at all, and I just want out.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

lastinline: All along since your first post..I thought that you sounded like a man that had built up resentment and frustration. 

Have a heart to heart with your wife...really. I know you feel that you've tried. Tell her that you want out unless you get your needs met. This will be her wakeup call. Either she gets defensive or she changes. 

If she doesn't care or doesn't change then I suppose you have your answer.

If she wants a better relationship than this "wanting out' could be a catalyst for change. Be sure, if she wants to work on it, to ask about her needs.

My H said he was unhappy for awhile. I was clueless. By the time he wanted to bail....it was too late for him. I told him that wasn't fair to me. It's like I just got to the game and the buzzer went off. Game over. I didn't get to try. That's why the heart-heart is so important. She may be clueless. 

If you decide divorce is the only way. I would suggest mediation. Most folks say it's the best/cheapest way to undergo a divorce. 

My divorce is uncontested. I met my H over coffee with a list of questions. We aren't fighters...so it wasn't a problem. 

Your complication is that you have a practice. A good friend of mine got a divorce, he's a dentist with a practice and a lab. Married for 20+ years. She basically got all of the money plus child support. He got to keep his lab and practice. Of course, he'll make it up. She was a dental hygeniest for him...her earning potential isn't like his. Just a thought. Of course, they fought with good attorneys to come to this. Last I heard, each attorney was up to 30k a piece. Every time a attorney had to write/call for a piece of paper/balance sheet/tax/ cha-ching!!!

That's why mediation is cheaper if it can be done.

You're in my prayers. I know it's difficult.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

We have discussed divorce in the not so distant past. She won't "go for it", because she is smart enough to realize "her" existence will change for the worse. However, she never exactly "frames it" that way. It's because our "kids wouldn't stay in their good schools", or we couldn't afford two separate households and "stay in our nice neighborhood." How Noble. It has never been "I won't divorce you because you are my spouse, and I believe we can fix our marriage", or "I want us to get back to what we had." Those have been my reasons for staying. 

At this point, I'd gladly live in a friggin condo/apartment for 12 months. If that's hardship, then sign me up today. I know she will financially crucify me she has said as much, but I don't really care. She "will" be punitive though, and that I don't understand. I am not a bad guy. She "pulled away first". I would like to save my marriage, but she refuses to do the one thing that would save it, and that's love me.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

lastinline: I see. She may fight. I'm not sure what state you live in or what the laws state. 

Perhaps get a recommended attorney and talk with him. Many of the consultation are free for the first visit. I've interviewed two attorneys and my third will be this week. Sometimes they see you coming and going----I got some outragous quotes on an uncontested divorce. Once they found out that we had assets the quote increased. I know this as a friend of mine with little assets got a quote from the attorney at 1,500 for an uncontested. My quote, from the same attorney, 5k for the uncontested. I asked him if I had "sucker written all over my face." Really I was offended. 

This weeks attorney...I am stating the basics and not mentioning assets. We'll see as this guy is highly recommended.

The fact that you are doctor...they will see it as an opportunity to up their fees. That is why you need to get a recommendation. 

She may not want it. She may have no choice. Give her the heart-heart one last time. Go from there. 

She will TRY to financially crucify you. You will have a financial hardship at first. It will get better in the next few years as your earning potential will help you in the long run. 

My H listed our assets on paper with values assigned. 
We spoke of how we'd divide them.
We spoke of who would live in the house or sell it.
We spoke of who'd carry the health insurance on the kids.
We spoke of child support and spousal support.
We spoke of taxes.
We spoke of custody and visitation.

Lay it all out...see what she says. My H will be hurting. He will make it up in a few years. That's his price to pay for wanting out I guess. No easy choices here. Loveless marriage or assets?


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

You said it:

_ She won't "go for it", because she is smart enough to realize "her" existence will change for the worse._

Why would she divorce? Give me one good reason.. I see none.. 

She has a comfortable life.. she has her 'cyber-life'... she probably has lost her libido... you do (from what you post) almost everything around the house.. she absolutely has no reason to leave.. 

Why don't you get a life of your own? go out.. don,t wait for her to make you happy... 

But, of course, if you cannot live like roomates.. then you have to divorce.. there is no other solutions.. cause it won't get better.. IMO.. she will not change.. she just doesn't love you anymore.. 

We all change.. I happen to believe that we can't love the same person forever.. we get tired of that person.. we then find something to make us forget that we are unhappy, lonely or just bored... with this partner.. (thanks to the Internet).. 

There is no miracle.. you got to make your own happiness.. no one else is responsible for it..


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow Lizzie, when you repeat back what I write it sends a pretty powerful message on where I am at with my relationship. I have pretty much spent the afternoon writing patient reports and listening to music. A little "3 Days Grace" and some old 80's metal to be specific. Nothing like these lyrics to cheer you up:

Every time we lie awake
After every hit we take
Every feeling that I get
But I haven�t missed you yet

Every roommate kept awake
By every sigh and scream we make
All the feelings that I get
But I still don�t miss you yet

Only when I stop to think about it

I hate everything about you
Why do I love you
I hate everything about you
Why do I love you

That's the question. Why do I love her? There is so much about her that frustrates me. So much about her that I despise. Why do I love you? If I didn't care about her, I could easily live as her roommate. I can't leave her, even though I know I should. Hell, she's even trying to be nice to me today, because she can sense I am very upset, and she doesn't like to "rock the boat" too much. I swear to God she enjoys seeing me on edge.

I am easily the most f*//ed up person whose "got it all together" that I know. Well my young Ranger is at my office door, and he wants to "go to the mat". I guess it's time to go and do some training.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You're going to have to make the life you want because she's just not going to go for it on her own.

What if you started going out and making her THINK you're up to no good. What would she do then? Seems to me she needs a rude awakening. And if that doesn't work, you know what you need to do, whether you love her or not. Love isn't supposed to hurt this much.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

dobo, the problem is I am not only accountable to me. I am also accountable to my kids. I may have serious issues with their mom, but are my needs sufficient enough to deprive them of a parent?

I am definitely unhappy in my marriage. My wife is a loveless and cold woman, at least towards me. I am bitter and I resent the hell out of her because I have made concession after concession without any reciprocation from her. 

She wants everything but gives nothing. I cannot understand why she refuses to meet my needs. I truly am a hard working decent man. I am a professional. I am successful. I am good looking, and I am "low maintenance". I think I would be what most women would think of as a "keeper". She is not the same woman that I married. I just don't know where to go from here. 

I can't feign "cheating" or being up to no good dobo to "awaken her", nor frankly should I have to. I would think that a spouse would be motivated enough to "change" if the other partner has repeatedly mentioned their unhappiness. She is not the same woman that I married. I just don't know where to go from here.


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## sirch (Jan 8, 2009)

Lastinline, before you do anything rash take this advice. Go to dads divorce and read "the list" in the forums section. You must be prepared for the hell you are about to unleash.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

lastinline said:


> I am tired of doing everything in my relationship. I am tired of being physically neglected. I am tired of being emotionally neglected. I am tired of cleaning the kitchen after a long day working. I am tired of spending my whole friggin Saturday fixing pool pumps and pruning plants. I am tired of an ungrateful wife. I am tired of asking God for the strength to forgive her. I am tired of beating the f*ck out of kickbags. I am tired of training 2+ hours a day to purge myself of the anger/hate I feel inside for this woman I once loved. I am tired of the shame that I feel over not being able to hold my marriage together. I am tired of busting my a$$ 7 days a week while she lives on autopilot. I am tired of the dream which has become a lie.


wow i can really relate to what you wrote. I kind of blew up at my H this weekend over the exact same thing. My H stays out with his coworkers all night. I try to talk about our lack of sex and my H just nods his head and says, "ya, maybe." I clean the place and take care of the animals while he plays video games or watches online shows. 

every once in awhile i get so frustrated that i just blow up and of course things change marginally for a couple days, a week if im lucky, but then it goes back to same 'ol same 'ol. i think what it comes down to is missing feeling that you are the important person in their life; missing the feeling that you arent just another somebody that they come in contact with, no more important then a casual friend. And the worst part for me is coming to the realization that they are completely fine with this arrangement.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

i think what it comes down to is missing feeling that you are the important person in their life; missing the feeling that you arent just another somebody that they come in contact with, no more important then a casual friend. And the worst part for me is coming to the realization that they are completely fine with this arrangement.[/QUOTE]


God, you've stated it exactly. She does treat me like " I am just another person in her life." "I'm nothing special", and if some obscure person should contact her from Facebook, well then "hold on, I'll be with you in a while." "No you don't understand, I sat by Trish in 7 th grade science class, she is important." Please.

You are equally right with your last line, and that's the one the kills me. She is completely fine with this arrangement. The problem is, how do you get your spouse to see there is a problem?


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## maynard2121 (Sep 25, 2009)

I am going throught the same thing, but it is my wife who is sick of me. I admit I have neglected her emotionally. Not b/c I dont love her but b/c I have been selfish and we have very different schedules. We always look to the vacations to rekindle things- it just cant wait that long and I see that now. You have to break the cycle- in this case she has too. I definately recommend a loving heart to heart- let her know what she's losing- let her know what she means or once meant to you- and that there has been some distance- let her know about the resentments- but in a loving way. 
My wife had that talk w/ me but we were so mad b/c it was done so late that we just stabbed at oneanother. A month later she says she's not in love w/ me anymore- Communication is the most importanrt thing. I also recommend "How to Fix your marriage w/o talking about it". There is a lot of damage that can be done by talking- b/c of fear and shame- men are not great communicators- women do want us to intuitively know where they are. And men dont like to be told b/c we feel like a failure that we had to be told.

I hope it's not too late in my case- it sucks when you dont know when your last chance was. That';s why I say talk about it- let her know its her chance.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Last, you can be accountable to your children while making your life what you need it to be. Don't you think they see how you are treated? Don't you think it hurts them? Also, don't you think your wife is showing them that it is OK to treat a spouse indifferently?

When I left my ex- I took the children. I got a full-time job and had to be away from them more. But they also got to see a capable person, who demonstrated confidence and who made things happen. I entered another relationship with a great guy whom I love like life, and who loves me equally. We are always doing things for one another. Imagine that. My older daughter's friends comment about my marriage because they don't generally get to see two people who love one another and LIKE one another so much. We do things with all of the kids (he has two sons) and it isn't always easy and there are times of conflict, but we generally have a good time and learn something along the way.

Imagine showing your kids something better than what you've got. Imagine being happy and having someone fill you up so that you have more to offer them... or anyone else for that matter.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Why do I keep trying. Yesterday, I went into my school and quit TKD. I am a 2nd degree black belt and have studied zealously for the last 4 years of my life. Not only have I became quite good, it has given focus to my exercise, and an element of happiness to my life. It is the one area of my existence that has brought me peace and tranquilty during this "crappy" time.

My wife has been "concerned" because my practice hours have "grown" longer since we opened the 2nd clinic, and now I am routinely finishing work at 7:30-8:00 pm. The B*tch has never complained once about taking a check to the bank. However, if I cut out my studies, it would free up about 4 hours mid week, and possibly allow me to leave work at 6:30 or so.

She too had a part of the bargain to keep regarding piano practice, but she has since reneged. WTF, I care far more about TKD than she ever did music, and I frankly don't give a rats bottom that her knee is hurt and this is something for her to do. I friggin train at 4:00 am most mornings and practice a couple times a week from 9-10:15. I don't leave the floor for lunch ever, so my partners don't complain. In their opinion, I can lump my lunches together however I please. My training has minimal impact on my families life and models dedication. I suspect my wife hates it and always has hated it because it is my lone social outlet and I enjoy it. 

Does anyone else out there have a spouse like this. I am thinking about "unquitting". It will look ridiculous and "wishy washy", but I think I can live with some shame. I am not so sure I can live with this b*tch. She gets what she wants and then changes the rules. How typical. Why the hell do I keep trying when it never makes a difference? I guess I must be stupid.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

If you tried to talk to her and she didn't listen or care... what are you choices?

1) Stay in a marriage full of anger and resentment until your last child leaves the home.

2)Leave and find another life but remain connected to your children.

3)Separate...shake your wife up and pray that she realizes the seriousness of your requests.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm hoping for a 4th choice, that being that'll she'll get her @ss in line, and do what's right by her husband and her family. She's "out" tonight with her friend who is a female jazz singer. My wife felt it would be a good idea to have me "wrap things up with the kids for bedtime while she "takes a break." 

I would very much like a break as well. I'm too pissed at the moment to write up my patient reports. Sorry guys. God I miss TKD. Hitting can be so cathartic. On the plus side, she actually put away some of my clean laundry today. That's a first in a while. Maybe that's why she's so tired. It was at least 8-10 shirts, a few pairs of dockers, and well everyone hates putting away socks.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Don't assume that 4th choice is going to happen. 

It's difficult to come to the conclusion that you aren't important enough. I am still shocked that my H is divorcing me...we get along great, no affairs, no abuse....Even the attorney's are scratching their heads.

The fact is...you can do everything in YOUR power to do-the-right-thing. You can be the perfect husband. However, you can't force your wife to do anything.

You are obligated to your family. You are also obligated to yourself. 

The one little "saying" that propelled me to quit wishing and move foward is...."you can't be walked on unless you are laying down!"

I know not such a philosphical statement! haha!! Many, many months of trying everything to change my H's feelings. I tried it all! It didn't matter in the long run. You can't change anothers feelings. All you can do is change yours. In the process, by changing your feeling and actions, you may END up changing theirs. Not always.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

"It's difficult to come to the conclusion that you aren't important enough." 

Wow, how right you are Corpuswife. Difficult and painful.

"The fact is...you can do everything in YOUR power to do-the-right-thing. You can be the perfect husband. However, you can't force your wife to do anything."

I also realize I am not the perfect husband. However, I am a good husband, and I would think that would be sufficient enough for her. Lord knows, I would gleefully settle for her being a "good wife".

Last night after she returned from her outing at 11:00 pm, we sort of recapped our days to one another. I expressed my sadness at her essential renege on "our deal". I also voiced my thoughts that giving up TKD to essentially "work more" was very painful to me, and seemed colossally unfair in light of her failure to "step up". She "defended" her music lessons as important and a value, and cryptically told me to "do what I need to do". To signify that a final "verdict had been reached" she then rolled over essentially ending further debate.

She usually is far less insightful than me, but in this case I think she "hit the nail on the head". I will "do what I need to do". I think one of the fundamental things that's pissing me off is that's exactly what she does. I used to think of this behavior as being selfish, but now that it has a neat new euphemism, I feel I can really embrace it to the fullest. 

Everyone seems to write on this page that "happiness is up to the individual." For the most part that's true in a relationship with the exception of sex. For that, you have no options, as in marriage it's an exclusive with your spouse. In all other approaches of my life though, I will try to do more of "doing what I need to do," or (DWINTD) Tonight, this will include "unquitting" and going to practice after work. I won't be home until 9:30, but WTF, it's "doing what I need to do." Obviously, I can't look to her for happiness, so I'll whip up a batch of my own. Here is to the power of DWINTD.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

DWINTD excellent idea!

It is probably a good idea to continue your martial arts. You love it and it provides a much needed outlet! If you had to give up something that should probably be last on the list.

Sorry, this is happening to you and your wife. Sometimes, you don't know how to fix it! Another "it is what it is!" I know how you feel after almost 25 years of marriage. This isn't what I had in mind....


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

lastinline said:


> In all other approaches of my life though, I will try to do more of "doing what I need to do," or (DWINTD) Tonight, this will include "unquitting" and going to practice after work. I won't be home tell 9:30, but WTF, it's "doing what I need to do." Obviously, I can't look to her for happiness, so I'll whip up a batch of my own. Here is to the power of DWINTD.


that's basically where im at. it is a sad day when you realize your spouse is not the person you can turn to anymore- that they have essentially become just another problem. i had that bitter realization some time ago. it hurst. it still hurts. but im starting to "find myself" again and the pain (and bitterness) is going away. So here's to DWINTD.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow, 1 single week off the mat and boy was my form rusty. My instructors were happy to have me back, and I was happy to be back. It felt like going home. "DWINTD", I love you.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Wow, my good fortune continues. Last night when I got home, I had dinner waiting. I know it doesn't seem like much, but in my case this is now unusual. It was even quite tasty. She is a good cook when she wants to be. Come to think of it, she's pretty much good at everything if she chooses to be.

This is my question gang...does it seem like your spouse suddenly makes crazy concessions when they sense that you have about had your fill? I can't believe I am the only person living in a crazy rollercoaster world where the nicer I am the more aloof my spouse is, and the more aggravated and p*ssed off I become the more pleasant and concilitory she is. I would think if I "played nice" she'd play nice, but that's never the case. Thoughts?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Absolutely. It's the push and pull of a flawed relationship. 

It's very common for the person backing away to be pursued by the other spouse.

Then when the other spouse starts "giving up" or backing off themselves...the other starts moving toward them. 

This is the basic principle of Dr. Dobson's book When Love Must Be Tough.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, Dr. Dobson's right, and so apparently are you Corpuswife. I won't tell you about this morning, suffice it was pleasant. It's almost like I "get glimpses" of what our relationship was like, just crumbs really, but it's enough to sustain me and give me hope.

I haven't changed anything aside from my "doing what I need to do", thing. With that I have made subtle corrections in the things I can directly control to make myself happier, and via this, through some convoluted process only God himself understands, she has moved closer to me. Go figure...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I hope you'll return to your sport. It is good for you in so many ways. You shouldn't have to give it up. Cut back if you must, but don't quit completely.

Glad you've had some good news.


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## maynard2121 (Sep 25, 2009)

I need to check out the When Love is Tough book- I am in the same boat only I am the one trying to get along- i'd say making an effort, but at this point 's only hello, how was your day...goodnight.

Unanswered texts etc, etc. It's disrespectful, I think- I mean I dont feel that I can go from husband to a stranger like this...I'm sure the EA is partly to blame. It is literally a living hell. 

I'd like to get back to things I used to enjoy- I went to the gym 4-5 days a week for 6 years and cant go now for the last 2 weeks. I played golf every sat and sun but not for the last 3 weekends. Thank God for yard work I guess.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

When Love Must Be Tough (LMBT) puts you in the driver seat. 

However, it doesn't always work but is quite useful to shake things up. If you have tried everything and have nothing else to lose then LMBT is a good direction.

When my H left during the separation I did the LMBT and limited communication and visiting hours (so to speak). He didn't like it at ALL. It was the first time in months where I wasn't the pursuer begging for attention. He felt the pain of what a separation would really be like. He didnt' look good at all. He lost his wife and best friend at the same time. He thought he'd keep the best friend. He was wrong.

Fast forward over 2 months. He came home and said "what are we doing..I just want to go ahead with the divorce." I said "ok." No more fighting the divorce. I quit doing the LMBT since the divorce was on the table.

Now since I am returning to my old self. I allow the conversation and the visitations. I don't talk about the relationship...I am happy and confident. He is coming around as his happy, warm self... pre-relationship problems. You wouldn't believe the things that have been happening. I pretend to be happy and confident but not interested in the relationship. He is now changing in my direction. 

I fully expect to see a divorce. However, I believe he will have great regrets. 

LMBT is a good bet if you've tried it all anyway.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Every day she is a little nicer. I went to 8:00 practice last night after leaving the clinic and wasn't home until 9:30 pm. A year ago this would have brought about Armaggedon, but last night nothing. Not a single complaint. I hate not seeing the kids, but I have a mid-term on Saturday, so I have a little prep work that needs to be done...set ups for board breaks and what not, and my work schedule has been murderous. Anyway when I got home she was a perfect peach, and was legitimately happy to see me. I was also legitimately happy to see her. It was sort of like how things used to be. All hail the power of DWINTD, or is it just that she's decided to choose marriage? That's the $10,000 question.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Not sure...she probably has sensed a change in you. It could be your demeanor or you not caring as much??

Obviously, one person changing will create a different dynamic between the two. So....go with it. 

After you sit for your mid-terms on Sat. maybe some plans for the two of you. Keep the momentum going.


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## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

lastinline, IMO your W likes the image of you as someone who is willing to stand up for what they believe in and LEAD. I believe you will continue to see improvements in your marriage if you will continue LEADING the relationship. On matters that are important to you (TKD for ex: ), do not defer to your W. She will see and appreciate you as the strong "integrated male" that you're being.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Hmmm, I never really thought of myself as being integrated, but so be it. Here is to "bringing all of my parts together." I agree with your basic statement dazed and probably won't change course anytime soon because we are definitely experiencing some sort of detente. Once again, all hail the power of DWINTD.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well there is definitely an ebb and flow to this relationship, and now the tides are moving out. She went to a party Saturday by herself, and the movies Sunday with our daughter who was having a birthday. Neither situation was I invited. She is just sort of in her b*tchy phase. I am not going to squander a lot of time trying to figure her out, because from my vantage I don't think she knows what she even wants. I'm sticking with DWINTD. If nothing else it's nice to practice some evenings. I am starting to suspect that this will just be the way our relationship is going to be, brief periods of warming with longer periods of just living together. Sort of sucks. Well here's is to the C-/D+ marriage.


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