# Son's girlfriend gave him an ultimatum



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

I'm feeling bad for my S25 because his girlfriend of 4.5 years gave him an ultimatum: move back home or we're through. He graduated with a masters degree in a specialized field two years ago and found a job on the left coast right away. Girlfriend also has a decent job in a professional field and lives on the right coast. 

My son can't replace his job easily. It's just not that common. His girlfriend's job is more of a commodity and her company is large enough that she could stay within it and probably find a position on the left coast. But she's adamant about staying near her family. 

I suppose this is all pretty typical stuff to deal with at that age. What I'm afraid of is that he's a budding "nice guy". He might make decisions at least in part, to make her happy. I know from personal experience that this isn't a good thing.

So now she's holding his feet to the fire about moving back. Obviously, they are making their long distance relationship work to some degree, but I wonder how strong it can be since they only see each other three or four times a year? 

They met in college and he hasn't had many girlfriends. She's his only LTR. I think he feels really conflicted about this. His job is great, he's rising in the company, he's respected, and he feels that it isn't a good time to jump ship. 

I want to tell him that he has a right to his own plans and it might mean losing his GF. I also wonder about his nice guy tendencies!

I know less about how they communicate and how they handle conflict. From his reaction to her ultimatum I'm guessing that it doesn't happen that much. Also not a good thing.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening 
Ultimatums are almost always a bad sign. 

I wish there was a good way to teach younger people about relationships to help them recognize what is good and and bad. One critical lesson though is that despite what Hollywood says, the is not just "one person for you". The world is filled with nice people who would make great romantic partners. If your current partner isn't one of them, then you should find a new partner.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you sent him a copy of NMMNG? 

Keep in mind that both of them can (and should) have boundaries. Her wanting to be close to her family doesn't make her a bad person. Her not wanting to be in a long distance relationship doesn't make her a bad thing. But it may mean that they're not a good match, at this point in their lives. And it means that he has to make a hard decision about where he wants his life to go. That doesn't make him a bad person either, if he decides it's not back with her.

C


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Most newlywed people should live a minimum of 500 miles from both sets of parents for about 5 years. Especially if she issues an ultimatum that he has to live near her family. 

If you wanna cleave, you gotta leave.

MN


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

PBear said:


> Have you sent him a copy of NMMNG?
> 
> Keep in mind that both of them can (and should) have boundaries. Her wanting to be close to her family doesn't make her a bad person. Her not wanting to be in a long distance relationship doesn't make her a bad thing. But it may mean that they're not a good match, at this point in their lives. And it means that he has to make a hard decision about where he wants his life to go. That doesn't make him a bad person either, if he decides it's not back with her. C


:iagree:

She has every right to want to stay where she is for whatever reason she wants it and he has every right to want to stay where he is for whatever reason he wants.

If they both want to stay where they are and the LDR with no plan to make it anything else isn't working for them then it just wasn't meant to be. Neither of them would be 'in the wrong' or 'bad'.

If he chooses to move back then that does not put any binding commitment on either of them to stay together either. He could move back and shortly thereafter one, or both, of them may find that it still doesn't work and they want out. Again that doesn't make them wrong or a bad person.

He has to make what he believes is the best decision for him at the time. 

C'est la vie.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

He hasn't had to make any hard decisions in his life so far. He's really a happy go lucky kid with a great personality and a great sense of humor who makes friends easily. See, I call him a kid but he's 25. He doesn't seem ready to take on responsibilities like wife and house which I'm sure is in his GF's plans. Of course, you don't want to be a kid forever, either. 

I'd just hate to see him start sacrificing to keep her happy and end up being resentful. Been there done that, unfortunately. I have been a lousy role model in that respect. 

I guess a discussion about boundaries is what's needed.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I know it's hard but she's well within her rights to do this. Long distance isn't working for her and she doesn't want to move, nor is she required to. She's laid her cards on the table and communicated that to her the relationship isn't worth moving. Now he has to decide what's wOrth more him. I'd counsel him stay where he is, but it's his decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And let him see that there are millions of other women out there who might enjoy HIS favorite place.


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

well, if she really values her boyfriend, then wouldn't she also consider moving to him? Why does he have to be the one that moves? If she is adamant against moving, what does that say about her commitment to her boyfriend? it seems to say that there are more important things than being with him, which doesn't really bode well for a possible future marriage.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Most newlywed people should live a minimum of 500 miles from both sets of parents for about 5 years. Especially if she issues an ultimatum that he has to live near her family.
> 
> If you wanna cleave, you gotta leave.
> 
> MN


That's an interesting thought. If an adult still used the parents as a safety net, that isn't a good thing. Moving far away would force them to develop some coping skills. Obviously my son has no problem with this, but his GF moved back home after six months even though she was able to afford living on her own. 

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with living near your family if everyone has appropriate boundaries.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I have to say that his Girlfriend is very wise and here is why

Long distant realtionships really don't work. You can carry on a Realtionship for a time that way but as you can see it doesn't always suffice. 

Now if the plan of attack is to get married and have kids having family near is important. I have raised kids without any family support and it's unbelievable how hard it is when you don't have a family near by. So if that were my daughter my advice would be do the same..... either get with the guy or move on.

And it's not just one sided. If he is happy where he is at and doesn't want to move he shouldn't he should just move on. They are obviously in different places in thier life and it's ok to move on vs try to make something work where at least one person will have resentment


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

What Mr Nice Guy tendencies are you pointing out? It must be stuff you've noticed unrelated to what you've mentioned here because a Mr Nice Guy would not have moved thousands of miles away from her two years ago. That shows that he was putting his future and career higher on the list.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

As a 25 year old in law school with job prospects, I can relate:

Congrats on his job. Not many 25 year old's in today's market can brag about that. That is most likely the most important factor in his decision.

He does not have the typical 'nice guy tendencies.' Just like above said, he moved away from her completely on the other side of the country. Had he been the typical nice guy, that would have never happened unless of course, there were kids involved and the money was good to support the family.

However, seeing each other three times can be stressful for 'young girlfriends'. It is HIGHLY unlikely that her needs are being met so I'm surprised she has made it this far without an ultimatum previously been given. Her friends are most likely getting married now, having kids, and all cuddled up with their boyfriends while she has nothing to show off. 

He needs some time to himself to really think about what he wants. This is a life changing decision and only he can make it. Hopefully, he makes the right decision and stays put. If she really wanted to make her relationship with him work, she would act reasonable and try to agree on a plan. By giving him the ulty, she is either testing him or being serious. Whenever someone says its either me or ..... , best bet is to just cut your losses.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> Most newlywed people should live a minimum of 500 miles from both sets of parents for about 5 years. Especially if she issues an ultimatum that he has to live near her family.
> 
> If you wanna cleave, you gotta leave.
> 
> MN


Could not agree more!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

Something you should tell your son is he clearly is not in love with this young woman. Try to make him understand what love is, what it means, and how it makes a person feel. Neither of these two people are in love. They met. They developed a relationship. And they decided to be together, but neither has made any effort to be together. At least not until now.

I really don't blame her for doing this, and I'm not sure it's actually an ultimatum that she gave him. It may simply have been her stance on the situation. Do you know for certain if her words were, "Move back home or we're through," or if she stated something more like, "I don't want to spend my relationship alone anymore, but I don't want to move away from my family either. If you don't want to come to this coast so we can be together, then I don't see the point in continuing the relationship." If the former, then it was an ultimatum. If the latter, then she has every right to express her stance on the topic. 

Why would either of them want to remain a country apart indefinitely? Two people who are in love would never agree to that. Two people who are in love would move mountains to be together. Two people who are in love would be working toward planning their lives together. Adults have to make hard decisions sometimes, and deciding what is best for them and best for their future is part of it. Let your son know what love is and ask him to search himself. If he is not able to say he feels that way about her, then he really should just let her go. Since he isn't much experienced, let him know he is valuable and any woman would be lucky to be with him. He doesn't have to turn his life over to be with this one woman that he likely is not in love with. Tell him not to fear making the hard decision. He will find someone else, and he will be glad he didn't make any desperate moves.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Long time seeing your significant other 4x a year is poison to a relationship.

Just ask all those military guys...

She is lonely. Who can blame her. She needs her man close to love her listen to her hug her and yes fvck her.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> What Mr Nice Guy tendencies are you pointing out? It must be stuff you've noticed unrelated to what you've mentioned here because a Mr Nice Guy would not have moved thousands of miles away from her two years ago. That shows that he was putting his future and career higher on the list.


During his junior year he realized that the B.S. he would get would be valuable but not that unique. So he wisely took some grad courses in his senior year and completed an M.S. in a fifth year in a specialization that is in demand and doesn't have that much competition. 

After he graduated, his GF wanted him to take a nearby job that only utilized his B.S. degree but he said, "I didn't go through the M.S. program just to waste those skills". He was offered a job by a company with offices around the world, but the only opening was on the left coast, so he had to take it. She wasn't happy about that, but couldn't really argue with his reasoning. 

I think she wants him to come back now that he has experience in his field even if it means that he has to take a lesser job than he has now. 

The nice guy part comes in with his general tendency to try to make everyone happy. You can short change yourself when you do that.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

VermisciousKnid said:


> That's an interesting thought. If an adult still used the parents as a safety net, that isn't a good thing. Moving far away would force them to develop some coping skills. Obviously my son has no problem with this, but his GF moved back home after six months even though she was able to afford living on her own.
> 
> On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with living near your family if everyone has appropriate boundaries.


I think you get it. The idea is to put enough distance in there to force the new couple to develop the habit of solving their problems as a couple. The danger of living to close is exactly boundaries. I've seen too many clingy moms ruin marriages by planning every vacation and holiday, heck in some cases every Sunday dinner. And it's not just brides mothers.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Your sons job and career are important to him. It is, and will continue to be part of his identity for the rest of his life. His relationship with his GF is at a major crossroads, and at 25 he is young. I think he would be making a regretful mistake by moving back. As he said earlier, why only utilize his BS and not his MS degree?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Prediction: If he gives up his job and moves for her she will dump him anyway.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> During his junior year he realized that the B.S. he would get would be valuable but not that unique. So he wisely took some grad courses in his senior year and completed an M.S. in a fifth year in a specialization that is in demand and doesn't have that much competition.
> 
> After he graduated, his GF wanted him to take a nearby job that only utilized his B.S. degree but he said, "I didn't go through the M.S. program just to waste those skills". He was offered a job by a company with offices around the world, but the only opening was on the left coast, so he had to take it. She wasn't happy about that, but couldn't really argue with his reasoning.
> 
> ...



Except that when you're a couple planning a future it's not all about you. he's not there after almost 5 years with her, and that's ok because he's 25. You can't have everything in life, his work probably should be more important to him. He should probably man up and agree to end things. He'll find a more compatible partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I completely agree with Carla.

Many people my age are just now getting married or engaged...after dating for 2 years at the maximum. She most certainly wants that whether she thinks so or not. 

As Carla has said, I doubt these two really love each other. After 4.5 years, they should be living together and he should know by now if he wanted to marry her or not. 

He needs to think reasonably. It's been almost 5 years and they see each other 3 times a year. He is probably use to things his way now and has creating his own sleeping patterns, etc. They are basically strangers. Besides seeing her on skype or hearing her voice over the phone, he has no idea who she is anymore. They would basically have to start all over again.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Long distance relationships suck. 

He will have to figure out what he wants to do. And whether those plans include her or not. 

As a parent, all you can do is offer your support either way.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I don't know about him being a nice guy so much - right now he's just considering it, right? 

That may feel like an ultimatum but it's really just her speaking her needs. She needs to be close to family and she's tired of a LTR. 

The fact she couldn't live on her own more than 6 months is sort of troubling. She should be living alone, working, having those great nights with friends and choosing between new shoes/eating PBJ for a week or wearing what she has and buying groceries like most 'kids' fresh out of college.

And she should be practical enough to not expect him to quit his job. She could move there, as you said. Noone said it had to be forever. She could move and he would look for a comparable opportunity on the right coast. The fact she isn't willing to compromise speaks to issues with her as well.

Your son giving this due consideration tells me he isn't really a nice guy - he didn't hop when she said hop. He took the job in the first place, too. Ask him some questions which encourage his higher order thinking. Such as does he believe in soul mates/one person for everyone? And the impact of in-laws on a realtionship. etc.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I raised my daughter to just date for fun in high school - as it would be nearly impossible for high school romances to last more than 5 or 10 years because everyone's still changing and maturing. I told her to try on guys a little more seriously in college, to see what kind of personality suits you, but don't get attached, because what happens when you're done and one of you wants to go east and one of you wants to go west? Who has to cave (and resent)? I told her to never marry before 25, as the brain doesn't stop developing until around 25 and what you KNOW you want or know at 23 will or could be vastly different from what you know or want at 30, and you'll be stuck with someone you're not compatible with.

So far so good. She's 24, applying for grad school, and just now dating a 27 year old who's steady in his career, not moving, and ready to support her while she finishes grad school.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

So, I have a great job that I love and a long term girlfriend. Would I move across the country for a girlfriend, no. Would I move across the country for a fiance, maybe. I think your son and his girlfriend have a lot to talk about, preferably face-to-face.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Ultimatum is a BIG red flag.

Look, they both have to accept that the time is not right and location is not right either. It's time to let each other go and move on with life.

It's unfortunate but it is what it is. 

He will be just fine. Tell him "Don't think of this as a great ending, think of it as a great begging".

In time, he will recover and be JUST fine. He will probably find someone local as well and get the relationship./love he deserves......which is NOT long distance. I'm sorry but Long Distance and "Relationships" do not MIX.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Why not tell him what you are telling us here? Be honest about what you've learned from your life experiences. Hes 25. Hes a big boy. 

Just as most problems in threads here boil down to "talk honestly with him/her about it", it does for you. TALK with your son. Say exactly what you've said here. He sounds smart. He'll get it.

If the girl was really THAT great, I suspect he wouldnt be on the other side of the country right now from her anyway.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

VermisciousKnid said:


> After he graduated, his GF wanted him to take a nearby job that only utilized his B.S. degree but he said, "I didn't go through the M.S. program just to waste those skills". He was offered a job by a company with offices around the world, but the only opening was on the left coast, so he had to take it. She wasn't happy about that, but couldn't really argue with his reasoning.


 You loaded the question against the GF when you called it an "ultimatum". Most people do not like ultimatum's so she was immediately viewed in a bad light. The truth is that she has been very understanding in letting him develop his career, but now thinks that enough is enough, it is time for him to decide. She has always made it clear that she was going to stay near her family, and he apparently understood this all along, but kept changing the goal line as to when he was moving back. 

You also loaded the discussion by trying to make it all about career opportunities, ignoring the value of living near family, especially if you plan to have children. She clearly values family, which is a good and reasonable factor in deciding where to live. Your son now has to decide what is more important to him, the GF or his current job. It is her right to ask him to decide. If he never intends to move back, then she has a right to know this now, so that she can make her own decision in life. I know that in my family staying near family is important, so I agree with her thinking. If she were my daughter, I would be advising her to do exactly what she is doing in asking him to decide.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Kind of a guess but i smell a little monkey vining. 

Nothing has actually happened but she has someone local she is interested in.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

This clearly shows what the GF values most; family... and it sounds as if family is above all else, even him. Even worse, issuing a "My way or the highway" ultimatum is a bad sign. If he gives into this type of behavior, she may see this as a method of getting her way in the future.

There has to be a middle ground somewhere. Perhaps they could meet in the middle and move somewhere where they both can be happy. If not, perhaps it's best if they split up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

coupdegrace said:


> This clearly shows what the GF values most; family... and it sounds as if family is above all else, even him.


My thoughts exactly. 

This is what he has to look forward to - a wife who will refuse above all to be separated from her family.

What if he wanted to up and move to the Bahamas and set up a company there? No?

What if he wanted to take a job in Saudi for twice the salary for 2 years? No?

I could go on. Women tied to their families is not a great thing.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> What if he wanted to up and move to the Bahamas and set up a company there? No?
> 
> What if he wanted to take a job in Saudi for twice the salary for 2 years? No?


 If they were married, they lived together, and it was for a defined time like 2 years, she might very well say yes. She has been saying yes up until now. But they are not married, they do not live together, and it is not for a defined time, thus your examples do not apply to their situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Actually, she HASN'T been saying yes until now. She's been saying I'm going to live by my family, I don't care where you're working and living.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Job 1 now is career. Relationships can wait.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Kind of a guess but i smell a little monkey vining.
> 
> Nothing has actually happened but she has someone local she is interested in.


So what if she does? That's completely normal, she's 25 and her boyfriend is living on the opposite coast indefinitely. She might prefer him but if getting tired of not having a man around, so isn't it better before she just cheats to see where bf stands? They're 25, not married, and not even talking about being engaged.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> Actually, she HASN'T been saying yes until now. She's been saying I'm going to live by my family, I don't care where you're working and living.


 She has been saying yes to them staying together under the promise that each relo was temporary and that he would be moving back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TRy said:


> She has been saying yes to them staying together under the promise that each relo was temporary and that he would be moving back.


That's not what he said. He never said that his son agreed to move there where she is. Unless he posted somewhere else about it. He MAY have agreed to it, but OP never posted that.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

turnera said:


> That's not what he said. He never said that his son agreed to move there where she is. Unless he posted somewhere else about it. He MAY have agreed to it, but OP never posted that.


When he accepted the left coast job she wasn't happy. I just remembered that her mother went so far as to call my wife to see if she couldn't do something to change my son's mind. My wife said it was his decision and that was that. 

Maybe that was a mother looking out for her distraught daughter without her knowledge, but I thought it was weird. 

I don't know what my son has said to his GF about coming back east in the past or since she gave him her deadline.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> So what if she does? That's completely normal, she's 25 and her boyfriend is living on the opposite coast indefinitely. She might prefer him but if getting tired of not having a man around, so isn't it better before she just cheats to see where bf stands? They're 25, not married, and not even talking about being engaged.


Nothing wrong with it as long as she ends Vs son relationship before letting her new interest know she is available and interested. I was pointing out a likely scenario.

She is entitled to be with whomever she wants nd quite frankly, given the impasse i think they would both be better off with new love interests local. Long distance is poison to their relationship. Just dont ever be a married man in california.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

My advice?

Next the girl. He needs to date around and get more experience. I am happy as hell I did not marry my first serious relationship. 

She'll live. Take her up on her threat and move on.

Have him read Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. Best read for any guy, married or single.

Date a few girls, get serious with a few. THEN, he'll have the experience and brains to know what he wants. To hell with this one. Toss her back.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Cuz Dad can influence son? And even if he can, he should? Dad stay out of it unless asked.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Q tip said:


> My advice?
> 
> Next the girl. He needs to date around and get more experience. I am happy as hell I did not marry my first serious relationship.
> 
> ...


Toss this one back and go out shopping for another one. He does not sound like he hates woman or considers them interchangeable. 

Looking at the situation from a distance, it would be much better if she broke the bonds with her family and joined him. He is progressing in life and that should gain her respect. He has more to lose so I hope he stays where he is. Leaving her family is a part of growing up. Maybe she is not mature enough for a serious relationship yet.

It would probably be best for your relationship with your son to support him but not advise him what to do. Hopefully, he will not leave the job. I think that it is important for him as a man to have a plan and pursue it. It's a paradox but I think if he comes back, she will not respect him because he gave up the job.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Cuz Dad can influence son? And even if he can, he should? Dad stay out of it unless asked.


I disagree. Even at 50, I was seeking advice from my more experienced and wiser mother.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I strongly believe in seeking wise counsel for big decisions. I have a core group of people that I talk with when I am facing something I would like input on. One of them is my 80 year old aunt.
Kings and presidents have cabinets and advisers. I think it is logical and reasonable to have advisers in our personal lives. When they are older and wiser and have more experience in the areas we seek counsel, that is even better.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I still don't see the conflict here. Two adults are making adult choices. There is no villian. Just possible irreconcilable differences.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> I still don't see the conflict here. Two adults are making adult choices. There is no villain. Just possible irreconcilable differences.


I wholeheartedly agree. 
If she needs to move forward or stop, it is only right that she communicate that.
If he is unwilling to move back to the East Coast and stay there and join his life with her's, then that doesn't make him a bad person.
He just needs to decide what is right for him to do.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I still don't see the conflict here. Two adults are making adult choices. There is no villian. Just possible irreconcilable differences.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
I think that in the first post the OP painted his son's GF in a bad light such that many people lost sight of the simple fact of the matter as stated above. There is no villain here.

It is normal for the OP as a father with good intentions to view things purely from the point of view as to what he believes is best for his own child to the exclusion of anyone else. Of course the GF's mother did the same thing when she called to try get the OP's son not to take the West Coast job. Both parents love their children and are trying to look out for them. In the end, they may be young adults, but they are adults and need to decide for themselves. Who they marry is one of the most important decisions that they can make, and will have a great influence on their happiness, but so is the career path that they choose.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

Others have mentioned it, but please, google "No more mr. nice guy pdf" and send the link to the book (it's available for free online) to him to read it.

Best wishes


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> I strongly believe in seeking wise counsel for big decisions. I have a core group of people that I talk with when I am facing something I would like input on. One of them is my 80 year old aunt.
> Kings and presidents have cabinets and advisers. I think it is logical and reasonable to have advisers in our personal lives. When they are older and wiser and have more experience in the areas we seek counsel, that is even better.


He doesn't have a core group of peers who can advise him yet. I might be wrong. None of his friends, all in the 24-26 age range are married yet. Most took the grad school route and are hustling to establish careers. I don't think there's an engagement among them though they all have girlfriends. A couple still live at home, having attained degrees that didn't lead to jobs. 

As far as being an advisor I think he uses my wife for some things and me for others. That's it.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I still don't see the conflict here. Two adults are making adult choices. There is no villian. Just possible irreconcilable differences.


He's struggling with the situation. It's only a conflict of expectations and how to deal with it.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> I wholeheartedly agree.
> If she needs to move forward or stop, it is only right that she communicate that.
> If he is unwilling to move back to the East Coast and stay there and join his life with her's, then that doesn't make him a bad person.
> He just needs to decide what is right for him to do.


So easy to say. So hard to do (for some people anyway).


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

TRy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> I think that in the first post the OP painted his son's GF in a bad light such that many people lost sight of the simple fact of the matter as stated above. There is no villain here.


That bad light came from the different interpretations of 'ultimatum'. It was an ultimatum. She had legitimate reasons to give it. 



> It is normal for the OP as a father with good intentions to view things purely from the point of view as to what he believes is best for his own child to the exclusion of anyone else. Of course the GF's mother did the same thing when she called to try get the OP's son not to take the West Coast job. Both parents love their children and are trying to look out for them. In the end, they may be young adults, but they are adults and need to decide for themselves. Who they marry is one of the most important decisions that they can make, and will have a great influence on their happiness, but so is the career path that they choose.


It's pretty obvious that who you marry is one of the most important decisions you will ever make, but in general, career choice decisions aren't given the same weight and I think that's interesting. 

In certain cultures education and career decisions are more important than they are here. From what I've read, and I apologize if this is just a stereotype, East Asians get more input from parents on what they should study and what career they should choose. Germans are crazy about advanced degrees. Again, maybe a stereotype. 

In this country the advice is often to study what you love on the theory that everything will work out in the end. That's just leaving everything to chance IMO.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

V, suggest to him that he try to envision himself in 5 years, in 10 years, in 20 years. By himself, don't complicate the picture with other people at this moment. Picture what he's filling his days with, what kind of place he is living, is he sailing along the east coast, is he hiking in the Oregon mountains (I assume there are mountains there?), is he surfing around Hawaii? Let him visualize the LIFE he wants, think of ways to get that. And THEN, tell him to re-insert his girlfriend and ask himself honestly if she CAN be part of that picture. Because if she's not, he will most likely be sacrificing HIS happiness to keep her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

VermisciousKnid said:


> He doesn't have a core group of peers who can advise him yet. I might be wrong. None of his friends, all in the 24-26 age range are married yet. Most took the grad school route and are hustling to establish careers. I don't think there's an engagement among them though they all have girlfriends. A couple still live at home, having attained degrees that didn't lead to jobs.
> 
> As far as being an advisor I think he uses my wife for some things and me for others. That's it.


Having good parents who can advise him is good. There is nothing wrong with going to one's parents for wise counsel, if their counsel is wise.
Yes, the decision is clear cut, but that doesn't make it easy. This is obviously someone he cares deeply for.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

lifeistooshort said:


> I know it's hard but she's well within her rights to do this. Long distance isn't working for her and she doesn't want to move, nor is she required to. She's laid her cards on the table and communicated that to her the relationship isn't worth moving. Now he has to decide what's wOrth more him. I'd counsel him stay where he is, but it's his decision.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Giving him an ultimatum is better than her cheating on him behind his back ... . I think this is what the majority do when they are in long distance relationship , just easier -then they lay a bomb breakup on the other and they didn't know what hit them... that's a hell of a lot worse than doing what she is doing..

I also don't think Love is easy to find, not sure what sort of relationship they had... but I am one who would move mountains to be with that special person...and so is my husband, how much money we made would be secondary to being together.. I just hope they make the right decision because REGRETS (whether it be the career or the lost love) may not be so wonderful to live with, or easy to get over.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You've been cryptic about the MA he got. How does it only give him one decent job?

If he wants to be with GF, he could find another job to be with her. Alternatively, he could go back to grad school.

She is probably going to break up with him in any case because the ultimatum is a psychological blow to their affection. He has not been listening to her in any case because she was surely expressing her unhappiness before she explicitly stated her case. He has been disconnected from her, as many men are when it comes to paying attention to a woman's desire for security.

Do you like her? Is she your idea of a great DIL?

If your son wants to save the relationship, he needs to up the ante. Get her pregnant or propose marriage. Wonder how it would work out if he said lets get married in two weeks and I'll move in with you immediately and we'll figure things out.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I still don't see the conflict here. Two adults are making adult choices. There is no villian. Just possible irreconcilable differences.


:iagree:

She stated her needs and has every right to do so. Long distance relationships suck and she's given him time to get some experience in his field, but wants to move forward. Now it's his time to make a decision.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> You've been cryptic about the MA he got. How does it only give him one decent job?
> 
> If he wants to be with GF, he could find another job to be with her. Alternatively, he could go back to grad school.
> 
> ...


It's an M.S.. His undergrad is a B.S. in mechanical engineering. There are only five programs in the country that offer this M.S. That's why I'm being cryptic. His GF is googling job openings he's qualified for and I don't want anything I post here appearing in a search result. 

Reminds me of the universities that have an undergraduate degree in Egyptology. There are about five in the country. 

The job he has now is with the premier consulting company in his field. It enables him to work with multiple client companies and in different roles. He's gaining experience at a rate he probably wouldn't see as a permanent employee of most companies. 

I'm not sure what is required to advance to upper management in his company. All of his peers have the same M.S. he has. A good many of them have a PhD in the field.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey, he'd be practically guaranteed a job at NASA, and they're all over the country.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

turnera said:


> V, suggest to him that he try to envision himself in 5 years, in 10 years, in 20 years. By himself, don't complicate the picture with other people at this moment. Picture what he's filling his days with, what kind of place he is living, is he sailing along the east coast, is he hiking in the Oregon mountains (I assume there are mountains there?), is he surfing around Hawaii? Let him visualize the LIFE he wants, think of ways to get that. And THEN, tell him to re-insert his girlfriend and ask himself honestly if she CAN be part of that picture. Because if she's not, he will most likely be sacrificing HIS happiness to keep her.


Very good! Excellent advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> It's an M.S.. His undergrad is a B.S. in mechanical engineering. There are only five programs in the country that offer this M.S. That's why I'm being cryptic. His GF is googling job openings he's qualified for and I don't want anything I post here appearing in a search result.
> 
> Reminds me of the universities that have an undergraduate degree in Egyptology. There are about five in the country.
> 
> ...


I understand your concern VermisciousKnid. You're like most parents and just want to make sure he makes smart choices. The good news is that your son is really smart so if you voice your concerns in a logical thought out way, he will grasp what you're saying and I'm sure it will mean a lot to him.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If someone presents an ultimatum, the correct response is almost always to reject it. If GF says it's your me or your job, the correct response is keep the job and end it. Moreover, he should go NC directly. If GF makes an overture to reunite, he can accept if that is where is heart lies.

The question is what should he say. Perhaps, something like this:

"I thought we were going to get married and have children but now that you are determined to end our relationship by dictating the terms under which it can continue, I feel very sad. If you had said let's get married in Las Vegas next weekend, I would have said yes without hesitation, but instead you're giving me a shxt test that I didn't want. I will miss you very much. Goodbye and good luck."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

LW's reply is a little harsh, but I would agree with giving up the girl and keeping the job. No way I would give up that job.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wouldn't give up the job for the sheer reason that she refuses to live anywhere else but within walking distance of her family. After all the damaged people we've seen over the years, THAT one thing rates right up there at the very top of potential problem-makers.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

turnera said:


> I wouldn't give up the job for the sheer reason that she refuses to live anywhere else but within walking distance of her family. After all the damaged people we've seen over the years, THAT one thing rates right up there at the very top of potential problem-makers.


Next is spoiled and entitled girlfriends. This one ticks off many of the top 10 on the list. I fear... by 30, she'll be a first class nag and whiner.

He needs more social experiences, more friends and more girlfriends before settling down.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

OP,

Buy him a book. One is Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. One of the finest books written for men, married or single. Trust me... Get it for yourself too. A real eye opener.

Wish my dad got me this book when we had that "talk". It took the Marine Corps to make a man out of me. That book is a short cut. Get it.

He'll learn she's trying to beta him into a relationship on her terms. That he does not vote, only she does. Run for the hills.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Coming from someone who married their high school sweetheart with no regrets, I think some of the replies are kinda sad (sorry just being honest).. it's like everyone today sees nothing of value in holding on to a relationship...

Careers, money, independence & more sexual experience is what is trumped for everyone -or your just immature -cast it away, it's like a weight around your neck or something... 

I agree, in this GF's shoes she should be more considerate of his being able to KEEP his current job , as he is moving up that ladder & doing so well...(He has a tremendous amount to give up) .... if I was HER, I'd say "screw my family" and go be with my Guy -but my family never meant much to me anyway, so it's easy for ME to say that.. Given she is putting them above him.. I feel this speaks that HE is not one she is head over heels for then.. so this should help in his decision to "let her go"..

I think all of us should be with someone who is passionate & head over heels for us -for what we bring to each others lives... 

SO I get where he is coming from. I just assume what they have is not all that magnificent then..

We have a son who will be leaving for college his Fall, his GF is a year behind...they considered each other in their plans.. mapping this all out.. (they've been together for 3 yrs now)...he got accepted at 3 colleges but he's likely going to go to the one that is 10 minutes down the road from her 1st choice.. & given her grades, she'll get in.. no problem...

I look upon them both as a couple who shows how important they are to each other by these choices but also going for their career goals too. Proud of them.. They may be young but they have shown maturity in how they have handled their relationship and choices.. so far.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> I wouldn't give up the job for the sheer reason that she refuses to live anywhere else but within walking distance of her family. After all the damaged people we've seen over the years, THAT one thing rates right up there at the very top of potential problem-makers.


Unless of course the break up of the extended family is a major reason for so many screwed up kids. I grew up with uncles aunts, cousins, three grand mothers and two wonderful grand fathers. 

When I interviewed for jobs in a bad economy after college graduation I refused to relocate. I had already taken off from school one year to work in another state. I saw my parents for one week that summer,Fla., and thought I couldn't believe how much they had aged. I left to finish school after the owners begged me to stay including wonderful offers.

I've been nostalgic over that year but never regretted leaving. My mother died 9 years later from breast cancer. Had I stayed in Fla. I would have regretted it forever. Staying in my area with family AND friends was the best decision I ever made.

I've just seen to many screwed up families that relocate for jobs to believe leaving family behind has no consequences.

Your son didn't love her enough to stay with her. Family is more important than money. He will regret losing her the rest of his life. 

Can't imagine anyone wanting to go to the left coast. Think Californication.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree with you, IF she is also willing to move somewhere else, should their careers take them there. That would show a healthy boundary/respect in terms of relatives. The fact that she refuses to be anywhere else is the problem.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I gave up everything for my husband. We lived close to his work and eventually moved abroad for his job. My life centered itself around him, and of course afterwards, our children.

If you're with a safe guy, this is not a problem. My husband is way healthier than my family. I just wish I would've met him earlier in life.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There's a young woman in my sports club. My daughter who closer to her in age told me that she had suffered depression after breaking up with LTBF who had not committed. She has lost weight and is more cheerful now. It takes time to get over the end of a relationship.

Even if VK's son wants to be with her, he cannot simply accept a dictate that will haunt their marriage. Far better to create some distance and make some overture that is not linked to the ultimatum.

I have a cousin who refused to commit to his LTGF when in medical school. I never understood his reasoning. He was afraid of her family's future influence his life (Jewish). So he married a Wasp and got divorced in a year when she realized his was selfish and threw a pizza in his face. Later he married a younger woman, also a doctor. She suffers an eating disorder. He refused to divorce because he could not stand the idea of a second failed marriage. They have three kids and his accepts that life is not perfect.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

turnera said:


> I agree with you, IF she is also willing to move somewhere else, should their careers take them there. That would show a healthy boundary/respect in terms of relatives. The fact that she refuses to be anywhere else is the problem.


I don't think her wanting to be near family is necessarily a problem(don't know enough info). 

I think family is extremely important and I would never want to move away from my extended family. They are a great support system and a tremendous help in helping give me a break from my son, so I can get some rest and/or have a date night with my husband. I see so many families struggle with no family near by and I can't imagine how much more difficult that would be. 

I put a higher value on family vs career. The economy changes, jobs change, outside circumstances change, but family is forever. That doesn't mean that extended family is more important than the marriage/relationship, just that it shouldn't be knocked off as "unimportant". My husband comes first and we discuss how we want to do this or that in regards to our family, but having extended family near by is a huge blessing. 

My SIL lives out of state and from the very beginning, I have always told my husband that I refuse to move out that way for multiple reasons. That is just a boundary I have.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

jld said:


> I gave up everything for my husband. We lived close to his work and eventually moved abroad for his job. My life centered itself around him, and of course afterwards, our children.
> 
> If you're with a safe guy, this is not a problem. My husband is way healthier than my family. I just wish I would've met him earlier in life.


I know I'm a bit jaded, but I thought I was with a "safe guy". I thought things were going to be great, but everything changed after marriage. Had I moved and followed where ever my husband wanted to go, I would be extremely miserable right now. I feel much better being around family and I'm glad we never moved away.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

I react to ultimatums similar to many of the responses here. No matter the cause of it, they rarely produce a favorable result for both parties.

It's fairly obvious where her loyalties and heart reside. What's getting left out is where his loyalty and heart is. He accepted a great opportunity that moved him away. The job and career were more important at that time than the girl. And they still are. Not judging him harshly or anything just putting it out there.

So, with two individuals who have conflicting loyalties is there a future? She would be homesick on the left coast and he would be miserable (likely without a job) in the East.

This doesn't add up. Cut the anchor loose and sail on.

~ Passio


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Anonymous07 said:


> I know I'm a bit jaded, but I thought I was with a "safe guy". I thought things were going to be great, but everything changed after marriage. Had I moved and followed where ever my husband wanted to go, I would be extremely miserable right now. I feel much better being around family and I'm glad we never moved away.


Yeah, sometimes you don't know. But it did work out for me.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

VK, I was close friends with a couple, we used to all work together in retail while we were students) they got married (I MC'd their wedding), both had strong family values, but totally different ambitions in life. He has a very specialized education and not long after their wedding found a job in the career he was seeking, but had to move across the country. She didn't want to be away from her family (more for guilt, because she felt like her parents needed her to be taken care of). He was hoping to get her away from her needy family, and she was hoping he'd settle for a retail job close to home like she did.

He convinced her to take a leave of absence and move there, she resentfully did but lasted less than a year before deciding to move back to her parents. Needless to say the marriage ended fairly abruptly because they just had different goals and sought different milestones.

It was sad for me to see their marriage fail, but OTOH it was better they determined to end it sooner rather then delaying, or worse bringing kids into the fold before absolving it. Both of them are much more satisfied with their lives now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Exactly my point, Lon, thanks. Maybe we're missing some of the intent, but from what OP wrote, she refuses to live anywhere but near her family. That's great - for her. But if her fiance has other plans, well, then they're just incompatible. IF it's no big deal to him, let him move there. But I hope he does it for the right reasons.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> He was offered a job by a company with offices around the world, but the only opening was on the left coast, so he had to take it.


So he doesn't really know whether he might actually be able to move because he hasn't looked into whether his company has openings elsewhere? Maybe they do have openings elsewhere now that it's a couple of years later. Maybe with the experience he's gained with them, they'd be willing to consider having him operate from a different office. 

Consultants mostly spend time on client sites, which means a lot of flying to and fro and rarely depends on home office location.

Just saying, where there's a will, there's a way. There isn't only one mechanical engineering job in the country, for Pete's sake. He might not have the will, though, which is an entirely different issue.

As for his gf, yeah, maybe she moved home after 6months because she wanted to save money for a down payment on her own house one day. Also, is she from a different culture? Maybe it makes more sense in her culture to stay close to family. Many cultures take that very seriously. I'm not going to paint her as an immature slob just because she moved home - she holds a professional position in a large company according to the OP, so she doesn't sound like some kind of slacker.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if this was my son, I would advise him to be a leader of his life and to not follow a crying complaining woman who doesn't trust his judgment to follow him. with a character to give an ultimatum.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> if this was my son, I would advise him to be a leader of his life and to not follow a crying complaining woman who doesn't trust his judgment to follow him. with a character to give an ultimatum.


That speak would lose affectiveness quickly with most guys in OP's situation because it's bias and bitter sounding and also off base regarding character. OP didn't say his son's GF is a crying, complaining, untrusting, harpy with bad character. He just said she's not willing to move across country for this son. It's likely time for them to call it quits if his son is happy where he's at but that doesn't make her the evil baggage getting portrayed here.

VermisciousKnid, have you actually sat down with your son and pointed out red flags here? He may need to hear your thoughts. You know the wize, fatherly, thoughts where you point out that if she was madly in love with him then she'd at least try it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Does she want him to go back home and marry her or is she just saying that she doesn't want to move away from her family and she wants him near her? Has there been talk of marriage?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Does she want him to go back home and marry her or is she just saying that she doesn't want to move away from her family and she wants him near her? Has there been talk of marriage?


This is a decent point. When my then boyfriend wanted to move from NE to the south, I told him I would follow him anywhere. As his wife. But not as a girlfriend he might cast aside at any time. I sure was not going to risk what I had built in MY life to traipse after a boyfriend.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> That speak would lose affectiveness quickly with most guys in OP's situation because it's bias and bitter sounding and also off base regarding character. OP didn't say his son's GF is a crying, complaining, untrusting, harpy with bad character. He just said she's not willing to move across country for this son. It's likely time for them to call it quits if his son is happy where he's at but that doesn't make her the evil baggage getting portrayed here.
> 
> VermisciousKnid, have you actually sat down with your son and pointed out red flags here? He may need to hear your thoughts. You know the wize, fatherly, thoughts where you point out that if she was madly in love with him then she'd at least try it.


Have not sat down with him. He was supposed to call my wife about it last night but didn't. I would like to have a private conversation with him after he talks with her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> if this was my son, I would advise him to be a leader of his life and to not follow a crying complaining woman who doesn't trust his judgment to follow him. with a character to give an ultimatum.


If I had a daughter I would tell her to run like h$ll from any man with this attitude. He's a partner (not even her hb I might add), not her daddy, she's a grown woman, not a 5 year old, and that's an awful lot of assumptions about her you're making.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Simple fact. They are 25 year olds who should have someone local. How long should they do the long distane thing?

They are in their physical primes. They should be taking advantage of that, not trying to nurse a dying relationship forever.


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