# How cheap are you?



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?

We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I would get a multi-meter and know which breaker controls that circuit, but then I am wired that way...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?
> 
> We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.


If you have more than one hard wired detector there will be interlinked cables which will be live if any detector activates or the test button is pushed.These are classed as live cables..DO NOT get these cables mixed up,it will prove costly if you do.
If you live in an apt then there may be two systems in use,one just for your apt and one for all the apts in the block.Turning your apt power off will not deaden the communal alarms,however they may be low voltage so you wouldn't get much of a tingle off them.
Buy a tester,it may save your life.Remember in most cases of electric shock in the home it's not the actual shock which causes death or injury,it is falling of a ladder or even a chair and getting hurt.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Well, I already own a multimeter, but if I didn't I'd probably just flip the breaker and mess with it.

Getting a multimeter is cheap, so cost wouldn't affect my decision. Bothering to drive into town to get one would. 

Mine was free in a Sunday paper ad from Harbor Freight.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> If you have more than one hard wired detector there will be interlinked cables which will be live if any detector activates or the test button is pushed.These are classed as live cables..DO NOT get these cables mixed up,it will prove costly if you do.
> If you live in an apt then there may be two systems in use,one just for your apt and one for all the apts in the block.Turning your apt power off will not deaden the communal alarms,however they may be low voltage so you wouldn't get much of a tingle off them.
> Buy a tester,it may save your life.Remember in most cases of electric shock in the home it's not the actual shock which causes death or injury,it is falling of a ladder or even a chair and getting hurt.


Wow, good to know. We are in a house and only have the one hard wired detector. I watched a youtube about replacing it and that guy mentioned the interlinked cable thing but didn't say anything about being careful with it!



Kivlor said:


> Well, I already own a multimeter, but if I didn't I'd probably just flip the breaker and mess with it.
> 
> Getting a multimeter is cheap, so cost wouldn't affect my decision. Bothering to drive into town to get one would.
> 
> Mine was free in a Sunday paper ad from Harbor Freight.


We are going to be at Home Depot buying the new smoke detector anyway. I think part of the problem is he can't be bothered to figure out which breaker applies to what part of the house. We've been in this house for 15 years - guess I will just have to do it myself. I just wish he took the initiative for this manly stuff, ya know? He never does and I KNOW that but it still bothers me. My problem, I know.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Old school tester


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Definitely buy the multimeter.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If you have only one wired detector then forget about the interlink cable,it's for joining numerous detectors so they all activate together.Maybe buy an audible tester that can be plugged in as well as used as a touch tester.This makes it easier to label the different circuits as it saves you walking to and fro to find out which circuit breaker controls which light/outlet.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?
> 
> We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.


I would get a tester and just switch off the circuit concerned. That way you'll be able to see what you are doing when you replace the alarm wires!

It's a good idea to know which CBs control exactly which outlets and lighting from a safety perspective.

The other reason not to keep cycling the house power is that most electronics failures happen when power is put back on. Things don't usually break mid use.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheap and good for checking a lot of things... fuses,electrical outlets,light bulbs,car batteries etc.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Wow, good to know. We are in a house and only have the one hard wired detector. I watched a youtube about replacing it and that guy mentioned the interlinked cable thing but didn't say anything about being careful with it!
> 
> 
> 
> We are going to be at Home Depot buying the new smoke detector anyway. I think part of the problem is he can't be bothered to figure out which breaker applies to what part of the house. We've been in this house for 15 years - guess I will just have to do it myself. I just wish he took the initiative for this manly stuff, ya know? He never does and I KNOW that but it still bothers me. My problem, I know.


15 years and he (or you both) don't know which breakers control what outlets and circuits? 

You're both in trouble if you smell something electrical burning, you won't know what to turn off.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

If you've gotta go to the store anyways, then definitely get the multimeter.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

WonkyNinja said:


> 15 years and he (or you both) don't know which breakers control what outlets and circuits?
> 
> You're both in trouble if you smell something electrical burning, you won't know what to turn off.


Apparently he would just turn ALL the power off.

I will have to just label it all myself!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?
> 
> We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.


*Tell his cheap a$$ to go buy something at Harbor Freight Tools, and as an added bonus, they'll be happy to give him one of those small battery/electrical testing meters gratis, with one of their coupons! 

Sure beats the hell out of shutting the power down in the whole damned house! *


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?
> 
> We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.


As someone who have a rather extensive knowledge of electric codes and been an expert witness on such topics. I would like to provide a little perspective.

(1) So many houses are not properly wired that a person can fool themself and be electrically shocked. Older electrical codes allowed 2 wire systems (as opposed to 2 wire + ground or bonding conductor). Some older systems also allowed shared neutrals. The problem with a shared neutral is that it will carry normal current and have voltage even when one of the hot legs (or energized conductors is turned off at the breaker). 

(2) Most commercial electrician deaths each year are caused by changing out electrical ballasts on florescent lights. The electricians are killed due to injuries associated with falling off the ladder after being shocked not from electrocution. Typical smoke detector change out requires one to get on a ladder. So yes turning off the entire building power is much safer to something that could be fatal.

(3) The absolute basic safety rule in all work is that that worker must feel that what they are doing is safe otherwise they should not perform the work. Your H has said the way they would feel safe. I happen to agree with him and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with being cheap. 

(4) Do you value the life of your spouse so little that you would endanger them by insisting they do things in a way that could be dangerous?

Have a good day. Now go apologize to your H.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> Now go apologize to your H.


I would, if he WAS doing it because of safety. He isn't.

Point taken though. If I'd thought I was for absolutely sure right I wouldn't have posted the question in the first place!

So do you think shutting off power to the whole house is a good thing to always do when working on electrical things?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

I am EASY but NOT CHEAP!

lol

you do not need a multimeter. They have little neon bulb circuit testers that cost like $5 that you can use instead.

Realize that it is easy to flip a circuit breaker, but HARD to figure out if it really turned off the electricity! Circuit breakers DO fail. You COULD flip the main breaker, and make sure the electric lights are all off in the house, and work by flashlight. That would be safe and simple.

To actually test an individual circuit, you need to be able to touch the two leads of the multimeter to the potentially hot circuit. For safety reasons, it is best to do this ONLY by using one hand, so actually doing the test is a bit of a juggling act. i like to personally use an alligator clip jumper wire on the bare earth ground wire on one leg of the meter, then i only need to use one hand to hold the other test probe to touch the potentially hot wire (colored black normally here in the USA).

Neon circuit tester:
https://www.amazon.com/Extech-ET25-Neon-Voltage-Tester/dp/B000X3LT4K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496355923&sr=8-1&keywords=neon+circuit+tester


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> I would, if he WAS doing it because of safety. He isn't.
> 
> Point taken though. If I'd thought I was for absolutely sure right I wouldn't have posted the question in the first place!
> 
> So do you think shutting off power to the whole house is a good thing to always do when working on electrical things?


If it were me (and I have lots of electrical safety training and I run the safety training for my firm) and I was going to get on a ladder..... yes, I would turn off all power to the house. Ladder shock related accidents are by far the larges source of fatalities and serious injuries for electrical workers. It has nothing to do with being cheap.

If it didn't involve a ladder, might I just test the circuit? Yes, but I would test the hell out of everything to make sure nothing would surprise me. Buy him a circuit tester for fathers day, but let him make his own calls with regard to safety.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I know what my time is worth and am happy to spend money to save time


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd buy him one of these https://www.lowes.com/pd/Morris-Products-Voltage-Detector-Meter/4738914


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Use it as an opportunity to buy a top of the line Fluke


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Digital Multi-meter is the only way to go.

Note, I am/was an electronics engineer. I have an expensive meter already. More than one. I would buy another if I didn't. I am some fancy kinda engineer now. Whatever.

You cannot know you have all the current off just because you turn off all the breakers. I have seen a house where there were live wires with all breakers off. Because some idiot had wired some things around the breakers.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

My first job out of the navy, I worked for an electrical contractor. I turned off the circuit breaker switch to replace a few receptacles. My boss, tells me "you don't have to do that, just don't make yourself into a ground source". I asked "how do I ..." he interrupts (with a smile) to tell me "figure it out or maybe this line of work is not for you". I figured it out, but my advice to diy folks, take your time and buy the necessary tools. 

I just invested about $500 on a new Power Driver, circular and reciprocating saws - rebuilding my garage shop. Right tools for the job saves time and ER visits. 

ETA: pretty sure this is old school attitude, nowadays insurance companies and lawyers would not allow an employee to figure out how to stay safe. For DIYers, stay safe invest in safety. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> you do not need a multimeter. They have little neon bulb circuit testers that cost like $5 that you can use instead.


That's exactly what we got. We also turned off all the power.

As usual I had to do the work myself. He got up there and started cursing and yanking on wires till I thought he was gonna pull everything right out of the ceiling. He is REALLY bad at this kind of thing. Like REALLY bad.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> That's exactly what we got. We also turned off all the power.
> 
> As usual I had to do the work myself. He got up there and started cursing and yanking on wires till I thought he was gonna pull everything right out of the ceiling. He is REALLY bad at this kind of thing. Like REALLY bad.



As with many things in life, either practice, practice, practices until you really know what you are doing.....or hire a pro to teach you what you need to do.....whether it is sex or electrical work>


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> That's exactly what we got. We also turned off all the power.
> 
> As usual I had to do the work myself. He got up there and started cursing and yanking on wires till I thought he was gonna pull everything right out of the ceiling. He is REALLY bad at this kind of thing. Like REALLY bad.


So staying faithful and electrical work aren't "his thing". Surely, he has other compensating qualities..... right?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I would leave it to my H not in my area of expertise at all


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> Digital Multi-meter is the only way to go.
> 
> Note, I am/was an electronics engineer. I have an expensive meter already. More than one. I would buy another if I didn't. I am some fancy kinda engineer now. Whatever.
> 
> You cannot know you have all the current off just because you turn off all the breakers. I have seen a house where there were live wires with all breakers off. Because some idiot had wired some things around the breakers.


I was changing a bulb holder many years ago and it was right beside the main board so I just reached over and turned off the main circuit breaker.About thirty seconds later I was lying on the ground after getting a shock and falling off the stepladder I was standing on.Turned out some bright spark had crossed live and neutral at the meter and even with the main breaker off everything was live.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> Use it as an opportunity to buy a top of the line Fluke


Those bright yellow boxes really show you mean business.I have a 1654 and hardly ever get to use it.It was a freebie from fluke because I buy so much of their stuff.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> Those bright yellow boxes really show you mean business.I have a 1654 and hardly ever get to use it.It was a freebie from fluke because I buy so much of their stuff.


When we were getting the thing we got last night there was a huge array of choices and neither of us had a CLUE what we were looking for. Thankfully some guy who DID seem to know was also looking and he recommended what we got.



BetrayedDad said:


> So staying faithful and electrical work aren't "his thing". Surely, he has other compensating qualities..... right?


This isn't the first time you've made digs at me for still being with him. After what he did 7-8 years ago. I know you don't believe me when I say we are actually quite happy now. I promise, if he ever does anything ever again to make me even think for a second he's cheating you will be the first to know, ok? And I will let you post as many I TOLD YOU SO's as you want to  In the meantime, if you need to keep saying such things to help yourself out somehow, be my guest.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> This isn't the first time you've made digs at me for still being with him. After what he did 7-8 years ago. I know you don't believe me when I say we are actually quite happy now. I promise, if he ever does anything ever again to make me even think for a second he's cheating you will be the first to know, ok? And I will let you post as many I TOLD YOU SO's as you want to  In the meantime, if you need to keep saying such things to help yourself out somehow, be my guest.


You are way too good for him. We both know it. It pains me to see someone, whom I otherwise immensely respect in most posts, lower their own standards in their personal life like this. 

In the meantime, if you need to keep saying your quite happy now to help yourself out somehow, be my guest.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> You are way too good for him. We both know it. It pains me to see someone, whom I otherwise immensely respect in most posts, lower their own standards in their personal life like this.
> 
> In the meantime, if you need to keep saying your quite happy now to help yourself out somehow, be my guest.


What are you basing this on? I am curious. My posts here? You do know that only hearing my side of things gives a rather skewed picture. I don't come on here and post all the happy good stuff - I post the crappy stuff. Maybe I SHOULD post more happy rainbow stuff but really, why? Don't feel pained - that's just silly. I don't  Would you feel better if I started posting all the wonderful boring everyday mundane happy crap too?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> What are you basing this on? I am curious. My posts here? You do know that only hearing my side of things gives a rather skewed picture. I don't come on here and post all the happy good stuff - I post the crappy stuff. Maybe I SHOULD post more happy rainbow stuff but really, why? Don't feel pained - that's just silly. I don't  Would you feel better if I started posting all the wonderful boring everyday mundane happy crap too?


Maybe a few compliments about him wouldn't hurt once in a while. All I have to go by is what you post.

You appear to be incredibly negative towards a person you allege makes you happy. Enlighten us sometime.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe a few compliments about him wouldn't hurt once in a while. All I have to go by is what you post.
> 
> You appear to be incredibly negative towards a person you allege makes you happy. Enlighten us sometime.


One of my most glaring faults. My kids call me on it all the time. Thanks for pointing it out again - I do need to smarten up in this regard! All I can say in my own defense is that when someone starts a post about how perfect and wonderful their spouse is I gag slightly. I don't need a lot of praise myself, and it often sounds fake to me.

Today's compliment about my hubby: he is INCREDIBLY patient.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Today's compliment about my hubby: he is INCREDIBLY patient.


I see.



Hope1964 said:


> He got up there and started cursing and yanking on wires till I thought he was gonna pull everything right out of the ceiling.


Okay.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

He is incredibly patient WITH ME then.

First you say I should say nice stuff about him, then when I do you argue with me? Dude. Are you secretly in love with me or something??


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

I would just pay a professional to do it.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Make labelling the electrical circuits part of this task, since he wants to turn them all off anyway. Turn everything in the house on, and shut the breakers off one at a time to see what area each is wired to.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SadandAngry said:


> Make labelling the electrical circuits part of this task, since he wants to turn them all off anyway. Turn everything in the house on, and shut the breakers off one at a time to see what area each is wired to.


There is actually a circuit tester you can buy. Plug it in and then go out to the breaker to see which breaker is receiving the signal.










That will make labeling a lot faster, so that it is not trial and error.

But wait, your husband will tell you that is a waste of money as you can just turn off all the power. 

I'm actually going to side with your husband. If you have been in the house for 15 years with no need to have your breakers labeled, the this is not a battle worth choosing. Even if you have something to test which wires are live and also have your system labeled, it is still a very sound practice to shut off the power to the whole house when electrical work needs to be done.

In the event you have some systems in your house that can be damaged by the power shutting off and on in this manner, isolate only that circuit and label just that one. Such as "Movie Projector" or "Home Networking."


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

What the heck, live dangerously. Don't bother with the tester or the breaker. Just climb up there, carefully disconnect the wires. Don't touch the copper only the insulation and just re-attach it - NOT! Get a tester AND flip the breaker once you have isolated the circuit. Better safe than sorry. Harbor Freight has them for less than $10


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ultimate FML moment. I installed and labeled all home a/v wiring in our house while it was being built. Just to give you an idea, there's 8 rooms wired for audio with speaker, cable, network, and control wires from the network closet. The media room has a wiring cluster 2+ inches in diameter coming out of the wall. The cables were 3 ft length and nicely labeled. 

A week before moving during final clean up some idiot cut the wires from 3 ft to 1ft. 

I spent days re-labeling everything and soldering or splicing in extensions. I'm pretty sure the culprit was the electrician - upset because he did not get to do the work...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm so cheap that when I squeeze pennies Lincoln cries.

But I have three multimeters (yeah, two are freebies from Harbor Freight). I don't trust electricity.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm so cheap that when I squeeze pennies Lincoln cries.
> 
> But I have three multimeters (yeah, two are freebies from Harbor Freight).* I don't trust electricity*.


Electricity never lies to you! 
And it ALWAYS seeks the shortest path.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

i don't mess with electricity but when I do I wire with one hand. 

I'm cheap, but since I'm wealthy I'd just buy a whole new house. That's the standard the girls in my town set. What can I do? 🤣😂


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ynot said:


> What the heck, live dangerously.


Just be sure to talk to your insurance agent to make sure that home DIY repair to your electrical system is covered as part of your husband's life insurance!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Hope1964 said:


> So do you think shutting off power to the whole house is a good thing to always do when working on electrical things?


This is what I normally do when working on an outlet, yes. I just feel safer that way. With lights and switches, I simply turn off the breaker to it - AND let anyone in the house know that the breaker is off and NOT to turn it back on.

And as an extra, extra level of paranoia, I turn the breaker back on myself - I don't ask anybody else to do it, in case they mishear me.

I hate working on electrical, hence my paranoia.

My wife and I just labelled my mom's 60 year old houses breaker panel a few weeks ago (panel is newer, don't worry). It was semi-labelled (ie. kitchen, living room, etc.) but not very detailed. It is now.

I do have a multimeter, but I ended up using a working lamp - it just made me feel better. Very visible indication of power/no power. I unplugged all electronics (TV, router, computer, etc.) beforehand. Slower process, but worth it, IMO.

Then we changed out all, and I mean all, of the outlets and switches, most of which were original to the house. Made sure each change was tested and working before we moved on to the next one.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

badsanta said:


> Just be sure to talk to your insurance agent to make sure that home DIY repair to your electrical system is covered as part of your husband's life insurance!


Yeah, this too.
@Hope1964, where I live, electrical work has to be done by a licensed electrician, and this includes installing new lights.

I can go to Home Depot, spend a whopping $15 on a new light fixture, and then have to (legally) fork over $50-$100 to an electrician to put it in.

If there were ever a house fire and it was traced back to a ceiling light, or something else along those lines, my insurance company would require proof that it was installed professionally. If the ceiling light was to blame, and installed incorrectly, without proof that I hired someone to do it, I'd be SOL. If a professional did it and botched the job, they'd be to blame, and insurance would pay for the damage (theirs, I assume).

For a smoke detector/fire alarm, you probably ARE better to hire a professional, IMO. Costly, but of all things to DYI and potentially botch, this is not the one you want to fail.

That said, I'd still do it myself, but that's me. But make sure to test it and be very certain it does actually work.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Testing the circuit at a hard wired smoke detector is not the same as testing a wall outlet. You can't just plug something in and look for a lamp to turn on. The detector will have to come down, dangling from the wires. Then (most likely) wire nuts will have to be removed exposing the bare conductors. That's your shock hazard right there. 

If you don't know how to use a DVM it is more likely to get you into trouble than help you. If your husband knew how to use one he probably would already own one. Think about it. 

I do nearly everything in my house myself, but there is a time to call a professional and rely on his expertise. The smoke detector is about as easy a job as you can find (climbing up the ladder is the hardest part) but if you don't know what you're doing then step aside and call someone who does.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Changing a light or a smoke detector can be a lot more dangerous than people think.You can turn the light off from the wall and think you are safe but this may be the last thought you ever have.With lights and smoke alarms there is usually a few on each circuit and you also have the problem of "borrowed" neutrals.This means basically that just because the light or detector you are working on is off there is still the likelihood of back feed from another fixture further along the circuit.Modern testing methods will show this up but in a domestic situation it is not easy to fix.If you disconnect any fixture,separate all the cables and then test each one.If you put a volt meter on two neutrals twisted together nothing will show but if you separate them one of them may become live.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

HIRE someone to do it? hahahahaha you guys didn't read the thread title. We do NOT do that in our house because professionals cost WAY too much money.

I posted this before but we got the job done, I myself did the work (on a chair, not a ladder) and I lived to tell the tale.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Are linked smoke detectors running 110v? We have them and ours are all low voltage.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> HIRE someone to do it? hahahahaha you guys didn't read the thread title. We do NOT do that in our house because professionals cost WAY too much money.
> 
> I posted this before but we got the job done, I myself did the work (on a chair, not a ladder) and I lived to tell the tale.


Try pricing out a funeral. See if that gives you as big a chuckle.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

zookeeper said:


> Try pricing out a funeral. See if that gives you as big a chuckle.


It doesn't give me a chuckle at all. As far as I am concerned far too much is done by us and not the pros.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I use my little voltage detector all the time. Multimeter are great, but you have to have a good ground or a good neutral.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> HIRE someone to do it? hahahahaha you guys didn't read the thread title.  We do NOT do that in our house because professionals cost WAY too much money.
> 
> I posted this before but we got the job done, I myself did the work (on a chair, not a ladder) and I lived to tell the tale.


I handle live 120vac all the time. The key is not to be grounded. Please don't try thus unless you know what you're doing. By standing in a chair unless it's a metal chair current will not flow thru you, but touch the neutral or a ground it will light you up. The really important thing to remember never have the current travel thru your heart. i.e. left hand thru your chest to the right hand ,foot, abdomen etc.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> HIRE someone to do it? hahahahaha you guys didn't read the thread title. We do NOT do that in our house because professionals cost WAY too much money.
> 
> I posted this before but we got the job done, I myself did the work (on a chair, not a ladder) and I lived to tell the tale.


i feel exactly the same way. If i can do it, i do it...even if it takes years for me to get around to it


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> Are linked smoke detectors running 110v? We have them and ours are all low voltage.


Depends on the system.Some detectors use mains for the link and some use low voltage.That's why I advised the op not to get them mixed up.If you have a very large house or building then the system is different and will probably have addressable detectors with a main panel.
That's how I know when my gf is cooking,the detector in the kitchen goes off.lol.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Thound said:


> I handle live 120vac all the time. The key is not to be grounded. Please don't try thus unless you know what you're doing. By standing in a chair unless it's a metal chair current will not flow thru you, but touch the neutral or a ground it will light you up. The really important thing to remember never have the current travel thru your heart. i.e. left hand thru your chest to the right hand ,foot, abdomen etc.


I hope you have really good insurance.

It does not matter if the chair is metallic or not. The "best" way to kill yourself around electricity is to be on an insulated surface and use both hands to touch separate parts of an electrical circuit. Then the electric current will flow through your body and heart. 

110 Volts can be lethal. Anyone who has had OSHA electrical safety training will tell you that 110 volts can be lethal (less likely than higher voltages, but it is really the combination of time, voltage and current that kill people. 

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/ET-HTML/HTML/EletricalShockHazard~20020326.htm


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> I hope you have really good insurance.
> 
> It does not matter if the chair is metallic or not. The "best" way to kill yourself around electricity is to be on an insulated surface and use both hands to touch separate parts of an electrical circuit. Then the electric current will flow through your body and heart.
> 
> ...


To sum it up power kills you Volts X Amps. And i think i clearly stated standing on a wooden (non conductive) chair would keep current from traveling thru you unless you touched a grounded object.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Thound said:


> To sum it up power kills you Volts X Amps. And i think i clearly stated standing on a wooden (non conductive) chair would keep current from traveling thru you unless you touched a grounded object.


In a typical 3 wire single phase system there is a neutral, a bonding conductor (bare copper or green wire), and a hot leg. If the neutral had stray current on it, it would have a partial voltage. If you touched the hot leg (and it were energized for some reason) and the neutral with stray current there would be a voltage difference and current would flow. In this situation neither wire is truly grounded to zero voltage. If you touched one with one hand and the other with the other hand the current would flow through your body. 

It would not matter in the least if you were standing on a non-conducting surface, nor would it mater that you were not touching the bonding (grounding, bare copper, or green wire).

(Technically power is volts times Amps. Volts times Amps over even a fraction of a second is Energy.)


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

honestly the cool thing about having a tester, (even that cheap one at harbor freight) is checking batteries. I probably use mine for that more than anything else and hardly a month goes by that I don't use it.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Would you get one of those wire/electrical tester things so that you could see if some wires are live or not, or would you turn off all the electricity in the entire house?
> 
> We are replacing a hard wired smoke alarm and I want to get a wire tester to make sure we don't kill ourselves and he says its a waste of money, he will just turn off all the electricity in the entire house.




I would buy the electrical tester because its the safest way to find out if the wires are live or not. Even if the power is shut off, still use the wire tester anyway.


It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of safety and being 100% sure.


I also have a hard wired smoke / carbon monoxide alarm and I do turn off the power and use a wire tester.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

CuddleBug said:


> I would buy the electrical tester because its the safest way to find out if the wires are live or not. Even if the power is shut off, still use the wire tester anyway.
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of cost. It's a matter of safety and being 100% sure.
> ...


Let me give you a bit of advice on carbon monoxide detectors.READ THE INSTRUCTIONS.What a lot of people don't realise is most carbon monoxide detectors have a way of telling you that there was high levels of CO even if it has dissipated.There can be led's flashing a certain colour and some of them work with an app which tells you what the levels of co have been for a week or more.
I have an aunt living in a place called Sligo in the NW of Ireland.A few years ago a family were living near her in a village called Gurteen,the husbands name was Trevor Wallwork,his wife Susan was in hospital having cancer treatment and her husband and two younger children were at home.The house was heated by a coal fire and one night one of them was eating a packet of chips and apparently threw the bag on the fire.The bag got stuck in the chimney and all three died of carbon monoxide poisoning.Susan passed away six months later.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Let me give you a bit of advice on carbon monoxide detectors.READ THE INSTRUCTIONS.What a lot of people don't realise is most carbon monoxide detectors have a way of telling you that there was high levels of CO even if it has dissipated.There can be led's flashing a certain colour and some of them work with an app which tells you what the levels of co have been for a week or more.
> I have an aunt living in a place called Sligo in the NW of Ireland.A few years ago a family were living near her in a village called Gurteen,the husbands name was Trevor Wallwork,his wife Susan was in hospital having cancer treatment and her husband and two younger children were at home.The house was heated by a coal fire and one night one of them was eating a packet of chips and apparently threw the bag on the fire.The bag got stuck in the chimney and all three died of carbon monoxide poisoning.Susan passed away six months later.




Yikes.


We only have electric heating, no gas and no coal.


Our smoke / carbon dioxide detector is rated for 7 years so when it gets close to that time, it starts chirping loudly and I buy a new unit.


Or the backup battery ran out of juice and again, it chirps loudly.


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