# Struggling with Reconciliation



## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Currently, I am up a creek without a paddle, I chose the creek, and furthermore, I chose to break and throw away my paddle. I had an affair that lasted for several months with a coworker of mine. A year after it ended, the other girl contacted my wife and told her about in a very vicious, vindictive way. We are currently almost 4 months out of DDay and I am struggling with trying to earn my wife's trust back and I'm getting nowhere. Any advice?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

My advice is keep it on the one thread and close this one.
Did you start another thread because you were getting advice you didn't want to hear?


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> My advice is keep it on the one thread and close this one.
> Did you start another thread because you were getting advice you didn't want to hear?


No, I started this thread because my wife said I should try to talk to the other men here and get their perspectives and advice separately from the main thread.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sallysman21 said:


> No, I started this thread because my wife said I should try to talk to the other men here and get their perspectives and advice separately from the main thread.


Thing is you don't actually WANT help. 

You want re-assurance that you're not a BAD guy.

You want this whole inconvenience to go away ASAP so you are playing along.

Tell me I'm wrong on all three counts.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

poida said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > No, I started this thread because my wife said I should try to talk to the other men here and get their perspectives and advice separately from the main thread.
> ...



Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage. I'm working on making that future happen and I'm working on helping my wife heal from the horrendous choices that I made. I've made no claims that I'm not the one to blame. I know that I seriously messed up. And that is my fault. I know I'm a terrible person because I threw away the best thing that I couldn't have even dreamed about. So I'm working on doing everything I can to earn her back. That's why I'm here asking for advice. And I want her to heal, realistically, I know that isn't going to happen overnight and my mistakes aren't just going to go away. I'm not wanting a quick, easy fix, I want a strong, lasting bond that will hold us together as long as we live. So again, here I am trying to figure out how I can make that happen.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

As I said, if you really want to help your wife you need to be transparent, and the way to do that is to continue the same thread as the one your wife is operating in. I mean, your first post here already left out facts and diminished the truth. How do you think that looks. It looks very bad indeed Sir. I strongly recommend you stop here and move to the other post.

And forget about overnight, weeks, or months. Your wife is going to doubt you for years and decades.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

At least the other girl had the integrity to be honest to your wife.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

If you are serious about staying with your wife go to her thread and read my list of things you need to do. Its as simple as that. Why aren't you starting with full transparency ? She has asked you for this already.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> If you are serious about staying with your wife go to her thread and read my list of things you need to do. Its as simple as that. Why aren't you starting with full transparency ? She has asked you for this already.


Quick as a flash....... nothing.

What a surprise.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage. I'm working on making that future happen and I'm working on helping my wife heal from the horrendous choices that I made. I've made no claims that I'm not the one to blame. I know that I seriously messed up. And that is my fault. I know I'm a terrible person because I threw away the best thing that I couldn't have even dreamed about. So I'm working on doing everything I can to earn her back. That's why I'm here asking for advice. And I want her to heal, realistically, I know that isn't going to happen overnight and my mistakes aren't just going to go away. I'm not wanting a quick, easy fix, I want a strong, lasting bond that will hold us together as long as we live. So again, here I am trying to figure out how I can make that happen.


Stop thinking you are going to get actionable advice. There are no tips or tricks. You have to make fundamental changes to who you are. This doesn't come by reading a book, it comes by exerting incredible amounts of energy.

Your #1 failure is thinking you have control over anyone but yourself. Stop trying to prove things to her. All you can do is be a great man, from this day forward. If she accepts it, then you are in luck. If she doesn't, then you must face reality. You will only take steps backward by refusing to accept that she doesn't have to get over it 100%.

You know how to be a great man. We all do. Do that. When things don't go your way, keep at it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Sallysman21 said:


> Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage. I'm working on making that future happen and I'm working on helping my wife heal from the horrendous choices that I made. I've made no claims that I'm not the one to blame. I know that I seriously messed up. And that is my fault. I know I'm a terrible person because I threw away the best thing that I couldn't have even dreamed about. So I'm working on doing everything I can to earn her back. That's why I'm here asking for advice. And I want her to heal, realistically, I know that isn't going to happen overnight and my mistakes aren't just going to go away. I'm not wanting a quick, easy fix, I want a strong, lasting bond that will hold us together as long as we live. So again, here I am trying to figure out how I can make that happen.


This seems pretty focused on making your wife better, on healing her, on _fixing her_. While that seems a laudable goal, your wife's not the one with the apparent character defect. Your wife wasn't broken. _You_ were broken, then you _chose_ to break her. You're the one that needs fixing. 

Have you considered that it might help your wife a great deal if you figure out how to heal yourself? Why did you cheat on her? What can you do to ensure that you never cheat on her again? Have you set up your lifestyle so that it is so honest, open, and transparent to her that there's no possible way you could cheat again? Have you stopped, permanently, all the things that made your affair possible? Are you committed to doing whatever it takes to ensure that you are trustworthy and honorable? Not to heal you wife, but to fix yourself so that you're someone who might one day be worthy of your wife choosing to trust you again?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> No, I started this thread because my wife said I should try to talk to the other men here and get their perspectives and advice separately from the main thread.


Well, the men who post here on this forum are the same men who post on the thread you and your wife have. So men are talking to you there and giving you their perspective.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK now that we know Sally (who says you are 29) is in fact ChloeIris (who says you are 21), who are you really and how old are you ? And is it end of term or something ?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage.


I address is on the other thread but her we go again. Sally my man, you sound like a guy who don't know his azz from a hole in the ground. Just the way you phrase the sentence, "work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage"speaks volumes. She ain't the one need held; you are.
Here's the thing Dawg, you don't have a clue about how to treat women. How can you be so foolish as to telling her, as she purported, that the other woman was prettier and better built to you liking than her. Chances are she'll never got over it and will think about it, and your f-ing around when some guy tries to cozy up to her. You mentioned your self esteem but your seem to lack consideration for hers.
What you need to get comfortable with is her trust for you is out the window and will never come back with full vigor. She'll always know you betrayed her once so what keeping you from doing it again. And why shouldn't she think that. Whose to say you're not still chasing the chicks at work. (Your outright lying about not remembering much about your f-ing around ain't helping either.)
All you can do at this point is tell her what a f-up you are, how she means the world to you, and if you're lucky enough for her not to ditch your sorry azz, you'll keep your dyck in your pants from now on. She won't believe you so all you can hope for is that she'll stay around long enough for you to give her some evidence of it.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage.
> ...


When we were having that conversation, it was soon after DDay when she was questioning me about the affair. Prior to this, she would insist that everything I was saying was a load and that I was a f-ing liar. And she kept asking me about why I had the affair. Not knowing at the time why I had it, and continuously getting agitated by the constant shooting down of every answer I would give her. I lost control and told her what I thought she was expecting to hear and wouldn't take any other answer. So I once again, made a terrible choice and lied to her and hurt her even deeper by lying to her and telling her that because I thought that it was what she was expecting to hear and wouldn't listen to anything else that I would try to say. It was very wrong of me to do so. I wish I could take it back, shyte. I wish I could go back and change all of it so that it would never happen. I don't expect her to be able to forgive me for any of it. All I can do now is just help her heal and do everything I can to make her feel safe again. I'm not making excuses for my actions, that's just how it is.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Rowan said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I do want the help. That's why I'm in IC, reading books, doing online work to try to help my wife heal and build a stronger, healthier, and better marriage. I'm working on making that future happen and I'm working on helping my wife heal from the horrendous choices that I made. I've made no claims that I'm not the one to blame. I know that I seriously messed up. And that is my fault. I know I'm a terrible person because I threw away the best thing that I couldn't have even dreamed about. So I'm working on doing everything I can to earn her back. That's why I'm here asking for advice. And I want her to heal, realistically, I know that isn't going to happen overnight and my mistakes aren't just going to go away. I'm not wanting a quick, easy fix, I want a strong, lasting bond that will hold us together as long as we live. So again, here I am trying to figure out how I can make that happen.
> ...


My first and foremost concern right now is to help her heal and do whatever I can to make her feel safe again. I know my wife wasn't broken, and none of what has gone on was in any way her fault or because there were issues in the marriage. We had a wonderful marriage. But the fact of the matter is, now because of my horrible choices, she is broken, and I am the one that broke her. So trying to help her heal, from my mistakes that broke her, is my primary focus. As I said, I'm in IC and have been doing a lot of reading and different exercises to fix myself at the same time. There is no viable reason or excuse as to why I cheated, because no matter what problems exist, wether in the marriage, or within yourself, it is never justifiable. That's part of what I'm struggling with right now is trying to figure out how I can better assure her that nothing like this will ever happen again. And I'm going to continue to do my own separate work for as long as it takes to make sure that I take care of my own flaws to prevent this from ever happening again. I have made my life fully transparent, as I have relinquished all privacy to her and have installed programs and monitors and put other things in place so that she can monitor me at all times for however long is necessary. Yes, I am committed and dedicated to doing whatever it takes. That's another reason why I'm here is to get helpful advice on how I can earn her trust and love back and show I can and want to be honorable and that I can and I want to be the man that she deserves.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sallysman21 said:


> All I can do now is just help her heal and do everything I can to make her feel safe again.


What will it look like when your wife is healed? What are the criteria that you would look for?


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > All I can do now is just help her heal and do everything I can to make her feel safe again.
> ...


I guess that's part of problem, I don't really know what to look for. In essence, I guess it would be when the good days far outnumber the bad, the pain, although I know it will last forever, will be more muted and easier to cope with. Be able to be open to the idea of reconciliation and open to starting to trust again. When she isn't triggered as often and is less affected by said triggers. When she feels that she is ready to really move forward in rebuilding a better marriage together.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

What you need is TIME, lot's and lot's of TIME and then maybe, just maybe she will trust you more.
Will she ever trust you 100%? 
Probably not.

Trust is a strange thing. When you have it, you take it for granted. When you lose it because you broke it, you realize how valuable it was and how nearly impossible it is to get back.

Note to self: "don't you ever friggen cheat on your wife!"


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

UMP said:


> What you need is TIME, lot's and lot's of TIME and then maybe, just maybe she will trust you more.
> Will she ever trust you 100%?
> Probably not.
> 
> ...


Yeah, unfortunately I've learned that the hard way by seriously screwing up our lives.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Another thing I've been struggling with is that she feels like I'm not being remorseful for my actions, at least not enough to her preference. So what are some more things that I can do to help show my remorse for destroying her?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sallysman21 said:


> My first and foremost concern right now is to help her heal and do whatever I can to make her feel safe again. I know my wife wasn't broken, and none of what has gone on was in any way her fault or because there were issues in the marriage.
> 
> ....I'm in IC and have been doing a lot of reading and different exercises to fix myself at the same time. There is no viable reason or excuse as to why I cheated.......
> 
> ...


You have hurt her and she has lost the marriage/love she once had.

She needs to go through a grieving process, just as if you had died. The typical steps are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

You to have lost something very important and are grieving. I would have hoped your IC would have told you that and given you materials to understand the process.

However, more importantly for you, you need to come to the understanding that you can't manage her grieving process nor can you "change her." You keep talking about fixing what you have broken. Only your wife can after she goes through the grieving process fix herself emotionally. You can be there to be supportive and help, but it is not under your control. The more you try to "fix her" the worse things will be.

You need to focus on fixing yourself. Fixing the way you treat her. Be role model to her that people can change and that she if she wants can also change.

Now, let me go back a little bit. What you did was wrong very, very wrong, but very human and common. I really believe in much of what MW Davis says about troubled marriages and that it that it takes two to make a troubled marriage. 

In my sex starved marriage, my wife was angry at me and refused to have sex with me. She felt that I was the problem. She had pushed me away emotionally and so to be the good provider I worked hard at the office, got promotions so she and our children could live a better life. I thought I was showing her that I loved her and our family, but she viewed it as abandoning her emotionally, when in my view she had earlier pushed me away sexually and emotionally withdrawn from me.

We were able to turn it around with the help of a sex therapist. But it was me changing myself and how I treated her. Dropping all anger I had toward her and giving her unconditional love. She had to change herself and overcome her LD dislike of sex. She had to forgive me and forgive herself.

Whether you or your wife want to believe it, she probably had some role in your troubled marriage. She didn't have the affair and you did her wrong, but she probably had some role in what happened.

As such, forgive her and yourself. Stop trying to fix her. Fix yourself. Show her that self change is possible and be a mentor to her on self-change. Prove to her by actions and openness that you are worthy of her future trust and love.

Good luck.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You know who struggles w/ reconciliation?

1. Betrayed spouses 
2. Wayward spouses looking to rugsweep instead of reconcile

For a wayward that WANTS to _truly_ reconcile, it will be the easiest thing in the world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> _*For a wayward that WANTS to truly reconcile, it will be the easiest thing in the world.*_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh hell no! I don't agree with that at all. It was most certainly not the easiest thing in the world in my experience. It was extremely difficult. 

But absolutely worthwhile.

Most things that you work hard for usually are.


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## Sallysman21 (Aug 10, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> Sallysman21 said:
> 
> 
> > My first and foremost concern right now is to help her heal and do whatever I can to make her feel safe again. I know my wife wasn't broken, and none of what has gone on was in any way her fault or because there were issues in the marriage.
> ...


I really appreciate you providing this perspective and advice. The only thing I have to really disagree with is that we didn't have a troubled marriage. We had a wonderful marriage and she was a better wife then I could ever deserve. Especially now. I do recognize that the problem is with myself, and it's been an issue I've struggled with my entire life (self esteem and sexual addiction). Which I'm currently in IC to help me find ways to fix myself, and I'm about to start with a SA psychologist as well. I don't really know how to forgive myself and I don't know if I really ever will be able to truly forgive myself for my terrible actions. Part of the reason I feel this way is I find my actions completely and irreparably deplorable and disgusting, being such I deeply loath myself for it. And I also feel that if I don't hold myself in shame and disgust for myself, I'm afraid that I won't continue to work on changing myself and improving myself and that may lead me to fall back on bad habits. I recognize that I'm human and to human is to err. I realize I obviously have the capability of doing something as deplorable as this and I feel that if I neglect this and forgive myself. I will be more tempted to do something similar again. And I don't want that. I never want to do anything like this ever again. So I hold myself in contempt to remind myself how I put myself here in the first place as a reminder to never make the same mistakes again while I'm working through changing and fixing myself.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sallysman21 said:


> .....we didn't have a troubled marriage....
> 
> .....I do recognize that the problem is with myself, and it's been an issue I've struggled with my entire life (self esteem and sexual addiction).
> 
> ...


Do you understand that self-flagellation may feel good, but it isn't going to help you get to where you want?

If you really feel like you have to punish yourself, then figure out some form of Penance that will clear your self of guilt. Do a pilgrimage, do some kind of physical charity fund raising athletic event. My other suggestion would be to go to a Catholic Priest at a major cathedral and go to confession. Get it off your chest. Get your head cleared so you can work on improving yourself rather than continuing your self-flagellation.

You need to focus on the future and the changes you want to make in yourself. Your wife choose you. She is either choosing to stay with you or she will not. It is beyond your complete control. Self-flagellation is not attractive to most spouses. They either don't like watching or they want to be the one doing the whipping. Either way you are not helping achieve your goal of winning her love

Good luck.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> You know how to be a great man. We all do. Do that. When things don't go your way, keep at it.


I appreciate your perspective, but unless a man can be honest with himself, he won't be able to be honest with anyone else and he won't know how to be a great man. Some people (men and women, so let me not be gender biased; it's just the man who cheated this time) can't admit to themselves that they are doing wrong. They may SAY they are admitting it, but aren't really. I think about a guy at my work who told me he cheated on his wife 20 some years ago and she still has trust issues with him. He says he's been faithful ever since and tries to be a good husband and doesn't know what to do to change things. 

And yet this man FLIRTS and FLIRTS to no end with every woman in the office who responds to him. And his flirting can get downright physical. He's told me i'm an attractive woman, that I have nice breasts. Uh, yeah... no. I finally told him how disrespectful he's being to his wife. And I really do think he didn't see it. Just goes to show what being dishonest with ourselves can turn a person into.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tron said:


> Oh hell no! I don't agree with that at all. It was most certainly not the easiest thing in the world in my experience. It was extremely difficult.
> 
> But absolutely worthwhile.
> 
> Most things that you work hard for usually are.


Allow me to clarify...

The _decision_ should be easy.

The _process_ likely won't be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Begin again said:


> I appreciate your perspective, but unless a man can be honest with himself, he won't be able to be honest with anyone else and he won't know how to be a great man. Some people (men and women, so let me not be gender biased; it's just the man who cheated this time) can't admit to themselves that they are doing wrong. They may SAY they are admitting it, but aren't really. I think about a guy at my work who told me he cheated on his wife 20 some years ago and she still has trust issues with him. He says he's been faithful ever since and tries to be a good husband and doesn't know what to do to change things.
> 
> And yet this man FLIRTS and FLIRTS to no end with every woman in the office who responds to him. And his flirting can get downright physical. He's told me i'm an attractive woman, that I have nice breasts. Uh, yeah... no. I finally told him how disrespectful he's being to his wife. And I really do think he didn't see it. Just goes to show what being dishonest with ourselves can turn a person into.


There is the impulsive mind, the judge mind and the authentic mind. We can operate in any of these minds, but we tend to operate in the first two. His authentic mind knows the answers, but the other two minds keep him from doing it.

My advice to individuals or couples always begins with perfecting oneself first, and then working on the relationship.

Too often, it is the one voicing discontent in the relationship who is the one doing the most harm.

"I'm the one trying to fix the relationship"

By using manipulation, and coercion..........


So, per your statements, he has to find his catalyst, otherwise he will never do the right things. I can give no one their catalyst. I can only help, when they have found theirs. What I see is a person who is struggling to accept reality, and looking for answers that conform his existing mindset. That is how politics works, not relationships.

As such, the only way he might find his catalyst is if the relationship begins the path of dissolution.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Sallysman21 said:


> My first and foremost concern right now is to help her heal and do whatever I can to make her feel safe again. I know my wife wasn't broken, and none of what has gone on was in any way her fault or because there were issues in the marriage. We had a wonderful marriage. But the fact of the matter is, now because of my horrible choices, she is broken, and I am the one that broke her. So trying to help her heal, from my mistakes that broke her, is my primary focus. As I said, I'm in IC and have been doing a lot of reading and different exercises to fix myself at the same time. There is no viable reason or excuse as to why I cheated, because no matter what problems exist, wether in the marriage, or within yourself, it is never justifiable. That's part of what I'm struggling with right now is trying to figure out how I can better assure her that nothing like this will ever happen again. And I'm going to continue to do my own separate work for as long as it takes to make sure that I take care of my own flaws to prevent this from ever happening again. I have made my life fully transparent, as I have relinquished all privacy to her and have installed programs and monitors and put other things in place so that she can monitor me at all times for however long is necessary. Yes, I am committed and dedicated to doing whatever it takes. That's another reason why I'm here is to get helpful advice on how I can earn her trust and love back and show I can and want to be honorable and that I can and I want to be the man that she deserves.


You are trying to fix her reasons for not trusting you. You can't.

Relationships don't work by monitoring each other. We shouldn't have to.

Be good to her and let her make up her own mind. Focus *100%* on yourself.


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