# Feeling like a failure



## JoannaG (Apr 19, 2016)

First time posting here. I post on SI, but whenever this topic comes up, the responses are always the same and seem to be an annoyance to them there. So I'm hoping you guys here might be able to help.

Details:

Husband had 3 mth long EA/PA with skanky CoW. Has since changed jobs. Thought himself in love and was going to run off and help raise her three little kids.

Working hard on R, and really trying to fix this. Yes, he's doing everything he can to be a safe partner, tries to reassure me how sorry he is, how beautiful I am and how much he loves me.

We spent a year HB in what I considered having pretty fantastic and often sex. Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable. So the past year, sex has been pretty awesome. 

Here's where we are now:

I've never been able to orgasm through PIV, though can quite easily through other avenues. This was never an issue for either of us and he always (pre and post A) have had fun exploring other ways.

I'm not sure what/if anything happened back in early February, but I decided that my orgasm, my problem and I didn't want him to be a part of them anymore. For whatever reason, I started to feel ashamed for not being able to orgasm through PIV like his AP was able to. Yes, he was lucky enough to find one of the rare women who are able to orgasm just by having a **** shoved inside with little to no effort. Every time, all the time, and multiple ones. Yea, I'm certain that his ego really took a hit when I laid out the facts to him and let him know that chances are she faked them.

We continued to have great sex even with my orgasms off the table.

During a discussion two weeks ago, I told him how much it bothered me that he's never said anything negative about the AP. Not as a person, not as a sex partner. He then said something so incredibly hurtful (which he now wishes he hadn't) that I don't know if I can recover from. 

I'm sorry this is so long. To sum all of this up:

I have zero desire to have sex with him now. I want to want to, but it's gone. He has completely and thoroughly destroyed every ounce of self esteem that I had in regards to sex. The last several times, I just kept thinking of where to put my legs. That's how pitiful I am. He tries to reassure me, but I feel ashamed and embarrassed and so freaking dumb. 

I'm not about to go into all the details, but trust me, the fact is, my husband was lucky enough to find a side ***** who can compete with a porn star. No, he's never said this, but the details he has given, leads me to this conclusion. 

I've given him so many opportunities to change the things he has said. Silently begging him to somehow say something to make things better. But no, after all this time, he still views her sexual acts in the same way. 

She was good. And I have to find a way to accept this. 

So how can I fix this? How do I fix myself? How do I get over feeling like a complete failure in bed?


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

JoannaG said:


> Here's where we are now:
> 
> I've never been able to orgasm through PIV, though can quite easily through other avenues. This was never an issue for either of us and he always (pre and post A) have had fun exploring other ways.
> 
> I'm not sure what/if anything happened back in early February, but I decided that my orgasm, my problem and I didn't want him to be a part of them anymore. For whatever reason, I started to feel ashamed for not being able to orgasm through PIV like his AP was able to.


I believe that puts you in with the majority of women. I'm sure I'll be corrected with an accurate figure but I think it's around 30% or less who orgasm with PIV.

I disagree that your orgasms are your problem. You may need to direct him in how to do it for you but in an ideal relationship you should be there for each other. That's easier said than done with everything else you have going on though.



JoannaG said:


> Yes, he was lucky enough to find one of the rare women who are able to orgasm just by having a **** shoved inside with little to no effort. Every time, all the time, and multiple ones. Yea, I'm certain that his ego really took a hit when I laid out the facts to him and let him know that chances are she faked them.


You are probably right but unfortunately you'll never be able to prove it. If he wants to believe that they were real then they were real.



JoannaG said:


> We continued to have great sex even with my orgasms off the table.


You orgasm off the table? Make sure he can catch you or you've got some decent padding on the floor or you could hurt your back. :grin2:



JoannaG said:


> During a discussion two weeks ago, I told him how much it bothered me that he's never said anything negative about the AP. Not as a person, not as a sex partner. He then said something so incredibly hurtful (which he now wishes he hadn't) that I don't know if I can recover from.
> 
> I'm sorry this is so long. To sum all of this up:
> 
> ...


Is there anything he could say to make things better? There are some things that once said can never be recovered. 

From what you said it sounds as if you are going to bed every time trying to compete with this porn star in your mind. It sounds like you need some help coming to terms with this, or even deciding if you ever will. 

If he can't figure out how to make his wife orgasm then it doesn't strike me that he would be enough to keep this combined sexual goddess, gymnast and olympic athlete satisfied for 3 months.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Are you guys in MC?

This zero desire has resulted from something he said two weeks ago, correct? 

Other than the fact you don't want to have sex with him, what exactly do you think of him? Do you love him? Is he truly remorseful?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Ever see the movie Inception? Once that idea is planted, it is there and it's forever. At this point, you either have to think, "Oh well, I'll just get over it, the rest of my life is good and I love him" or gtfo.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long ago was his affair?

Most betrayed spouses (BS) suffer from low self-esteem. It’s a very normal reaction to being cheated on. Many BS (at least 50%) end up having revenge affairs or do something very hurtful to the WS (wayward spouse) as a way to fix their self-esteem and to even the playing field.



JoannaG said:


> He then said something so incredibly hurtful (which he now wishes he hadn't) that I don't know if I can recover from.


It sounds like your husband is doing ‘the right things’ by one hand but making sure that he inflicts hurt on you by the other hand. This does not sound like a remorseful cheater. It sound like he is harboring anger towards you and using the OW’s (other woman’s) supposed perfect porn star sex performances to injure you.

First off, I rather doubt that she is as orgasmic as he claims. Keep in mind that affairs are built on fantasy. Because of this, cheaters then to put on performances in all areas of their relationship. I cheating husband is most likely putting on the front that he’s the most romantic, loving, caring man alive. The cheating woman is often putting on the front that she’s the most orgasmic woman… especially the most orgasmic in response to HIM. (Yes, I know of OW who have done this in an attempt to get the man to end his marriage.) It’s a fantasy that falls apart once reality hits the cheating couple.

You have bought into the fantasy that he was so hot that she could not help but orgasm every time he went near her. What an ego boost for him. LOL.. she was most likely faking it most, if not all of the time. 

I don’t blame you for not wanting sex with him anymore. You cannot live up to the porn star, PIV instant orgasmic fantasy. No woman can. So why would you want sex with him? Furthermore, who would want sex with a man who rubs her nose in his affair partner?

Why would any woman want sex with a man who goes out of his way to make her feel so sexually inferior that she has to abandon orgasms to be able to have sex with him? Would he give up his orgasms? No…

Have you told your husband how you feel? You need to tell him and be very clear about it.

You also probably need individual counseling to work out of the damage that has been done to your feeling of low self-worth. Your feelings of low self-worth are not just feelings of sexual inadequacy. You also do not seem to have much self-worth in general because if you did, you would have dumped a husband who is playing this very mean game on you.

Why is your husband so angry with you that he wants to continue to hurt you like this? Where there serious problems in the bedroom before he started to have the affair?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

So it sounds like you have no problem with the O, but now you are resentful of his affair and don't want him to enjoy your O, either. Maybe you can't let him because you are still so hung up on the AP. Either she was faking or lucky - it wasn't his skill that gave her PIV Os. That's just the way she's built (or lies). 

Sounds like you went through the hysterical bonding but never really worked through the affair itself. What was it that was said that was so cruel and hurtful? Did he say there was nothing bad about her?

You shouldn't try to compete. Every woman is different both in and out of bed. There was something special about you that made him marry you and come back to you. Even her fictional PIV Os weren't enough, in the end, to make him want to give you up.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

What was it he said that was so incredibly hurtful?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> What was it he said that was so incredibly hurtful?


I'm guessing he said that the AP was better in bed than she is


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> What was it he said that was so incredibly hurtful?





Hope1964 said:


> I'm guessing he said that the AP was better in bed than she is


If I were to guess, he probably said that OW was capable of not only orgasming via PIV but of _multiple_ orgasms via PIV.

Did the stupid bas-tard ever stop to consider that maybe -- just maybe -- his skank ho-worker was FAKING...?

I mean... GEEZ.

It's not like someone on the market for some dumb schmuck willing to leave his family in order to help raise her kids would exactly be above such a thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I've been trying to imagine what I would do if my husband told me this. I really think it would be a dealbreaker for me. I would have to get rid of him.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

My EX once said to me my vagina was too loose, and he felt nothing...

I had no complains since I ditched him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ne9907 said:


> My EX once said to me my vagina was too loose, and he felt nothing...
> 
> I had no complains since I ditched him.


"Dear, that just means that your penis is too small."

:lol: :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

JoannaG said:


> Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable.
> 
> To sum all of this up:
> 
> I have zero desire to have sex with him now.


Sounds like you've come full circle. Maybe its time to consider its as good as its going to get. What the old saying, " one woman's tea is another woman's poison". 
To lay it right out on the table, in a man's eyes, poor sex ( and the worst I've ever had was wonderful) or sexless marriage ain't going to be able to compete with a chick that's hot for it if he's willing to go down that road. A man feeling her kegel muscles pulsate around his "member" is about as ego building as it gets. 
It's like a lot of other things in life; sometimes you just have to accept the hand you were dealt. Maybe you need to try somebody else as see if your perceived orgasm problem continues.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

ne9907 said:


> My EX once said to me my vagina was too loose, and he felt nothing...
> 
> I had no complains since I ditched him.


Tell him his successor had no problem after getting past the loose part.>


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

My Xw said some hurtful things to me ,when she was angry or drunk( most times both).
I knew I could never get past it,so I am glad I divorced.

There are some things said that just go too far. Sounds like your husband did.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

When a husband endures a sexless or near sexless marriage it really does a number on his self-esteem. Add the fact of feeling like a complete loser for not being able to get you off and he must have been feeling like failure in the man dept. So when another woman comes into the pic who's enthusiastically sexing him up and he's able to please her, it can be intoxicating. 

Despite that, he came back to plan A. Believe it or not, while in the midst of the fog he was obviously under and the guilt all cheaters feel, he probably wished it was you that uncontrollably wanted him and that he didn't turn into POS cheater.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

jsmart said:


> When a husband endures a sexless or near sexless marriage it really does a number on his self-esteem.


Actually, I believe this goes both ways. It does a number on a woman's self-esteem to endure a sexless or near sexless marriage, as well. Especially, when you consider that, according to mainstream society, husbands typically initiate sex more frequently, while wives, according to statistics, are often more reserved.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

jsmart said:


> When a husband endures a sexless or near sexless marriage it really does a number on his self-esteem. Add the fact of feeling like a complete loser for not being able to get you off and he must have been feeling like failure in the man dept. So when another woman comes into the pic who's enthusiastically sexing him up and he's able to please her, it can be intoxicating.
> 
> Despite that, he came back to plan A. Believe it or not, while in the midst of the fog he was obviously under and the guilt all cheaters feel, he probably wished it was you that uncontrollably wanted him and that he didn't turn into POS cheater.


I see, so it's all her fault her cheated. If she'd only put out more often and was more enthusiastic, then he wouldn't have strayed. Exactly what my husband said to me and it really did a number on my head. 

It's NOT your fault OP, and if he said something that hurtful,how could you feel desire for him right now? Your H sounds insensitive to me and not very remorseful. 

It seems like you two need MC, preferably one who also has some experience as a sex therapist.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

blahfridge said:


> jsmart said:
> 
> 
> > When a husband endures a sexless or near sexless marriage it really does a number on his self-esteem. Add the fact of feeling like a complete loser for not being able to get you off and he must have been feeling like failure in the man dept. So when another woman comes into the pic who's enthusiastically sexing him up and he's able to please her, it can be intoxicating.
> ...


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## JoannaG (Apr 19, 2016)

Thank you for the replies. There's a lot I'd like to reply to, but this site is moving too slow.



WonkyNinja said:


> I disagree that your orgasms are your problem. You may need to direct him in how to do it for you but in an ideal relationship you should be there for each other. That's easier said than done with everything else you have going on though. *Other than PIV, he's never had a problem bringing me to orgasm.*
> 
> You are probably right but unfortunately you'll never be able to prove it. If he wants to believe that they were real then they were real. *After I schooled him in Woman and Orgasms 101, I'm quite certain he believes they were fake.*





Hope1964 said:


> Are you guys in MC? *No. We did meet with our pastor a few times, but I didn't like what he had to say, so we stopped. I am looking into it again though.*
> 
> This zero desire has resulted from something he said two weeks ago, correct? *yes*
> 
> Other than the fact you don't want to have sex with him, what exactly do you think of him? Do you love him? Is he truly remorseful? *He's the most incredible man I've ever met and love him more than anything.*





blueinbr said:


> What was it he said that was so incredibly hurtful?


 *"There was nothing that AP did that was any better or worse than you." I'm sure that after the look of horror and hurt that he saw on my face, he immediately started backpedaling, claiming that he was referring to his feelings of 'indifference' toward her. He's saying I took it the wrong way and that's not what he meant, and blah, blah.*



Hope1964 said:


> I'm guessing he said that the AP was better in bed than she is


 *He might as well have said that, because that how I took it. To say that there was nothing she did worse is the same as saying that I do nothing better.*



jsmart said:


> When a husband endures a sexless or near sexless marriage it really does a number on his self-esteem. Add the fact of feeling like a complete loser for not being able to get you off and he must have been feeling like failure in the man dept. So when another woman comes into the pic who's enthusiastically sexing him up and he's able to please her, it can be intoxicating.
> 
> Despite that, he came back to plan A. Believe it or not, while in the midst of the fog he was obviously under and the guilt all cheaters feel, he probably wished it was you that uncontrollably wanted him and that he didn't turn into POS cheater.


 *You're absolutely right. We both have to live with what we've done. I live with this every day.*


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ne9907 said:


> My EX once said to me my vagina was too loose, and he felt nothing...
> 
> I had no complains since I ditched him.





GusPolinski said:


> "Dear, that just means that your penis is too small."
> 
> :lol: :rofl:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

J, the physical part is one thing but you have both wounded each other

1. giving him no sex before the A would have really battered him
2. Having an A really battered you.

You need to work on the emotional/psychological aspects first and the physical will come later

I suggest you go to a proper marriage therapist and work through these feelings.

Be open and honest with each other.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Just move on and find someone else.  Life is too short to be miserable (and be married to the same person...ha). You only have one life, make it worthwhile! Divorce sucks but living a miserable life is worse!


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

There's so much focus on the mechanical aspect here, with/without PIV, number of orgasms blah blah. Not only that, it sounds like a competition with the OW. So you both win first prize seeing as, "She did nothing better or worse than you". No wonder you don't want to have sex with him. 

The most important ingredient hasn't been mentioned. Sex isn't just a mechanical matter & counting the number of orgasms etc. There is nothing hotter than having sex with someone you love deeply. 

I couldn't stay with my husband if he said that to me. . . and a year after the A too. 

I'd tell him to go & help skank raise her 3 kids. There won't be quite so much time for orgasms.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> I see, so it's all her fault her cheated. If she'd only put out more often and was more enthusiastic, then he wouldn't have strayed. Exactly what my husband said to me and it really did a number on my head.


Its not that. Its that some folks, despite getting married, are just not that into to other. I've know many women that had a sexless marriage with the husband, (sometime her and sometimes him that was never in the mood) that moved on to happy and fulfilling sex lives with others. It the way the world turns. People are taught to feel like a failure if the marriage goes south.
Bottom line; when the mutual attraction is there, you don't need to pay a sex therapist. When it don't come easy, both are better off if they just let it go.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Yout husband broke it, maybe he should fix it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

blahfridge said:


> *I see, so it's all her fault her cheated. If she'd only put out more often and was more enthusiastic, then he wouldn't have strayed.* Exactly what my husband said to me and it really did a number on my head.
> 
> It's NOT your fault OP, and if he said something that hurtful,how could you feel desire for him right now? Your H sounds insensitive to me and not very remorseful.
> 
> It seems like you two need MC, preferably one who also has some experience as a sex therapist.


It's not about blaming the victim. I was pointing out what WH was probably feeling and may have led to him being susceptible to committing adultery. OP herself said the marriage being sexless was her doing. 

When a BH comes here and explains he was a [email protected] to his wife, so many female TAMers trip over themselves with how quick they want to assign blame to the BH. Meaning he brought it upon himself. Well for a man, enduring a sexless marriage is the equivalent. Not excusing it in either case but the same way female TAMers can understand a neglected wife stepping out, I can understand a sex starved husband stepping out.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

J,
Unfortunately can't make your husband take back what he said. He absolutely meant what he said. It is very hurtful and incredibly insensitive of him. Pray tell, what possesed you to ask for the details? I mean most counsellors advice BS to NOT ask for details of their spouses affairs. It is way too painful to endure all of that as that would be your main focus. As BS we already have low-esteem issues and asking for details of an affair is just advisable. Like many here have said what your H said would be a deal breaker to many. There's no way to take that back. 

Stop comparing yourself to that **** bucket, it's not going to get you anywhere. So what if she was able to orgasm multiple times during PIV (this btw is just a bunch of BS, made me crack up) 9 times out of 10 it was completely faked. Ask yourself this, why is the ho single with 3 kids? I mean she has porn star qualities right? You'd think those would land her a hubby right? 

It's going to take time for you to feel vulnerable with your husband again. And the sex after was said? Forget about it. You two need a MC that can address your issues (you withholding sex and your H for sticking his prick elsewhere). The only way you're going to be able to heal and hopefully move on from this is to talk to an unbiased party. 

Stop asking for details of your H's A, it will hinder your healing. Stop comparing yourself to a cheating ho without morals, values, or INTEGRITY. She knew your H was married when she decided to spread her legs.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Wow, what a mess, I am so sorry.
There is hurt and resentment on your part based on what he has said and done.

Be sure not to confound the two.

You can deal with the resentment (hurt is another matter), it takes work but you can do it and get past it. 

You get to the point where you no longer assign blame to him for your pain. You accept the pain as the price of loving him, of allowing him to know you hold no ill will toward him. We call this forgiveness.

Who in their right mind would pay that price? Who in their right mind would accept the pain and releace the person responsible for it.

Well that's why forgiveness is so sublime. Thats why when we see the real deal we are taken back, and wonder if we could do it, if that were us.

When we see genuine forgiveness it becomes apparent what a majestic gift it is.

Forgiveness is based on the character of the one giving it, not on the worthiness of the one receiving it.

There is the rub. As I said, "hurt and resentment".

You can deal with resentment, it may be a daily task and it will require the personal resources of your character, but "hurt" strikes at the core of those resources.

To err may be human, but where does a human find those divine resources to forgive?

How can you addres the hurt in a way that you can heal and find the grace to forgive?

His remorse and heavy lifting, your willingness, and profesional counsel are the starting point.

To move on with or without your husband you must heal.

To move on with your husband it seems likely he must restore your belief in his love for you and happiness with you, but he can never do this 100%. 

History cant be changed, you will still have to accept and pay that final price.

In the end it will change you some, and its unlikely the damage will ever be invisible to you.

The question then becomes is it worth it to you?

Is the person and the relationship worth the price of forgiveness?

If yes, then is it worth self sabotaging the relationships by holding resentment?

Remember there is a difference between pain (or hurt as we called it earlier), and resentment!!

There are a lot of stops between here and there (failure) though and your husband has a lot of work to do to fix this.

I really wish you well, take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Most amazing man you have ever met went out and cheated on you, and then threw lemon juice in the open sore? You need to meet more men. You should probably start now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I can only imagine how much it hurts to not have him completely disavow any pleasure he had with this woman, any comfort he took in her company, any balm he felt from her ministrations. You want him to say negative things about her, maybe call her names, or ridicule her in other ways. That would likely soothe your hurt feelings, at least temporarily, and superficially.

It would surely be much harder to accept that there are elements of that relationship that will always be, if not a positive, then at least a neutral memory to him. He may have learned things from her, and shared moments with her, that comforted him during a lonely time in his life. And it must be especially painful to wonder if you had never refused sex, would that relationship have happened at all.

I understand why counselors tell us not to ask questions we cannot bear the answers to. It often hurts to hear another's truth, even if we have long suspected it.

But transparency, as painful as it is at first, can ultimately heal us. We just need to be willing to set aside our pride, and listen to it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

You can spin it anyway you want, but when the rubber meets the road, him saying the "hurtful" things is likely him telling her about the lack of enthusiasm she, probably from day one, puts into sex and how this other chick provided what he was missing at home.
By Joanna's own admission she had the old boy basically cut off. Hence, "Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable." Well maybe enjoyable to her but apparently not to him.
You can characterize him, (or her in opposite situations) as bastards, POS cheaters, or what have you. But when you get down to reality, a large percentage of spouses will turn to others when the other spouse decides to stingily dole out affection. (often done as a tool for control) 
Your spouse married you to a great degree but they thought you'd fulfill their emotional and physical needs. If you're not doing that, you can scream, "their involvement in an affair is 100% on them", but deep down you know better. For comparison, what would you expect to happen to a grossly underpaid, unappreciated employee if another employer offered them much greater pay and more benefits.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> You can spin it anyway you want, but when the rubber meets the road, him saying the "hurtful" things is likely him telling her about the lack of enthusiasm she, probably from day one, puts into sex and how this other chick provided what he was missing at home.
> By Joanna's own admission she had the old boy basically cut off. Hence, "Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable." Well maybe enjoyable to her but apparently not to him.
> You can characterize him, (or her in opposite situations) as bastards, POS cheaters, or what have you. But when you get down to reality, a large percentage of spouses will turn to others when the other spouse decides to stingily dole out affection. (often done as a tool for control)
> *Your spouse married you to a great degree but they thought you'd fulfill their emotional and physical needs. If you're not doing that, you can scream, "their involvement in an affair is 100% on them", but deep down you know better. For comparison, what would you expect to happen to a grossly underpaid, unappreciated employee if another employer offered them much greater pay and more benefits*.


The bolded is a hard message for a lot of folks to hear, Phoenix.

I tend to disagree that people are neglectful as a "tool for control," though. It can certainly happen, but I think more often people are just self-centered and lazy. It seems to be a human tendency to take our spouses for granted.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Not always but in a number of cases I've seen. A classic example is a couple of really good looking women I know a few years back were telling me that the day of a "romantic" evening, they would hit there husbands up for expenditures they wanted to make or things they wanted to do. Another where the regular Saturday night romp would only occur if he did assigned chores to her liking. 
Some of the chicks I've met that fit this category had boyfriends on the side.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

JoannaG said:


> Thank you for the replies. There's a lot I'd like to reply to, but this site is moving too slow.
> 
> Joanna What was it over at SI that you did not hear what you wanted to hear ?
> 
> ...


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> You can spin it anyway you want, but when the rubber meets the road, *him saying the "hurtful" things is likely him telling her about the lack of enthusiasm she, probably from day one, puts into sex and how this other chick provided what he was missing at home.*
> By Joanna's own admission she had the old boy basically cut off. Hence, "Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable." Well *maybe enjoyable to her but apparently not to him.*
> You can characterize him, (or her in opposite situations) as bastards, POS cheaters, or what have you. But when you get down to reality, *a large percentage of spouses will turn to others when the other spouse decides to stingily dole out affection. (often done as a tool for control)
> Your spouse married you to a great degree but they thought you'd fulfill their emotional and physical needs. If you're not doing that, you can scream, "their involvement in an affair is 100% on them", but deep down you know better.* For comparison, what would you expect to happen to a grossly underpaid, unappreciated employee if another employer offered them much greater pay and more benefits.


The pain of betrayal always stings but when you search inside yourself, and deep down realize that your actions contributed to the environment that made your spouse susceptible to adultery, it stings even more.

How many BHs do we get every month that when they come here for help and share their story, they let us know that their neglectful, and sometimes [email protected] treatment of their wives contributed to their WW falling for another man's game. Doesn't make it right but the pain they feel is magnified because they have those "if only I would have.." thoughts.

Not to trying to be sexist but it seems that many women are not able to have an introspective look at what they may have done that contributed to their BH's betrayal.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Honestly, I think his statement meant exactly what he told you. You were neither better or worse in bed than his AP. 

Yes, that does hurt because you want to be the best he's ever had as his current partner. That's fantasy ladies. I'm sorry for that shot of reality. There are mentally ill women who can eff like nobody's business. 

That does not mean she is the best woman for him. It's so odd that we speak of love in such terms, but compatibility in such specific terms. This is tough to explain.

When we look at compatibility for marriage, there are many factors which eliminate one person or another until one person meets most of the needs on our list. 

Of course there is physical compatibility issues, as in, size of penis and vagina. Temperaments, introversion and extroversion can make two compatible or not. Income, social status, and race all play a part, though we wish they didn't.

The way I see it is, if he didn't think you were the best woman, he would not have stayed with you to reconcile. 

Yes, no sex before the affair had a helping hand in his low self-esteem. 

You have come full circle to no sex now, thanks TAM member whose username I apologize for not remembering.

I think the issue is his lack of personal strength of character. He could have divorced you and had every reason to do so. 

His infidelity is fully his responsibility. He didn't include you in the interview of the women he was interested in screwing. Did he? No.

So, he willfully sought out a woman who wanted to have sex with him. Then, they both consented knowing what was at stake for each. They didn't care about you one bit. They didn't care if you were hurt or not. You weren't on their minds at all. Sex was on their minds. 

Don't give another thought to your guilt or innocence in his affair. That was his decision.

The state of the marriage was a result of whatever was going on at the time and prior. It's a matter of the abilities you both have to communicate and compromise, love and respect each other. You didn't and it looks like you don't have that ability, either of you. 

If you want this marriage, you will have to humble yourself to your faults as will your husband. Both will have to take responsibility for their own actions and not blame them on the other. 

You both need to see a counselor and figure out what you want. Get to MC soon. IC may also be in order. You will find out when you get there and talk.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Any relationship can be salvaged if both parties are willing to do the work. The WH is lashing out with hurtful words to OP because he left a woman that was giving him something he wasn't getting in YEARS. He's putting in the work for R but he's back to a sexless marriage. The very thing that led to him stepping out. Think about that. A sexless marriage, not even a weekly duty sex. 

Despite the hurtful words, OP's husband loves her. How do we know? Because even after getting mind blowing sex from another woman, he's putting in the effort to R with a woman that's giving him nothing sexually. I'd bet that even mediocre sex from OP means more to her husband than the wanton sex he had with POSOW. Isn't that love in action?

OP needs to really decide if she wants to save the marriage or remain angry. Feelings follow actions not the other way around. I know women mostly have responsive desire but this is a case that can't wait for that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jsmart said:


> Any relationship can be salvaged if both parties are willing to do the work. * The WH is lashing out with hurtful words *to OP because he left a woman that was giving him something he wasn't getting in YEARS. He's putting in the work for R but he's back to a sexless marriage. The very thing that led to him stepping out. Think about that. A sexless marriage, not even a weekly duty sex.


I don't see him as "lashing out with hurtful words." I think he was simply sharing his truth with her.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

jsmart said:


> It's not about blaming the victim. I was pointing out what WH was probably feeling and may have led to him being susceptible to committing adultery. OP herself said the marriage being sexless was her doing.
> 
> When a BH comes here and explains he was a [email protected] to his wife, so many female TAMers trip over themselves with how quick they want to assign blame to the BH. Meaning he brought it upon himself. Well for a man, enduring a sexless marriage is the equivalent. Not excusing it in either case but the same way female TAMers can understand a neglected wife stepping out, I can understand a sex starved husband stepping out.


Perhaps he was neglecting her too, she hasn't said much about the marriage prior to his affair beyond the fact that it was sexless and it was her doing. I would like to know what led her to finding it so difficult to have sex with her H. 

Some of the men here are tripping all over themselves to blame her when we don't know all the facts. When I found about my H first affair, I knew right away that it was connected to our spotty sex life. He claimed that it was ALL about that, but it wasn't. It was about an inability to communicate and a refusal to compromise. It was also the day to day grind of his demanding career and me caring for three children at home with no help. 

I take responsibility for our problems in communication, but I compromised all over the place in our marriage. He simply told me that "you knew I was that way when you married me", as if that absolved him of even having to try to meet me halfway. He was dismissive and cold to me and later even admitted that he didn't like me back then. Why should I want to have sex with someone who treats me that way? It got so bad that whenever we did have sex, I felt like a *****. I didn't see withholding sex from him as a form of control, I just had a hard time making myself want sex with him. 

So was he justified in having an affair because I wasn't having sex with him enough? Yes, according to some here and I still struggle with that guilt sometimes. When we attempted R after my EA came to light, I swore I would make myself have sex with him at least once a week and I did for a while. Then it all blew up when he admitted to hacking into my phone and email accounts and he finally admitted to more affairs. Now we're back to no sex again, just like the OP's marriage. 

So, I'll say to you OP, what do YOU want? Do you love him enough to get past this or is it a deal breaker? Are there other issues in your marriage beyond intimacy that need to be addressed,such as resentments and inequitable responsibilities? Can you steel yourself and become intimate with him in the hope that the act will trigger the desire? I don't know what to do in my own situation, so I can't really advise you beyond saying that sometimes the desire follows the act.

Only you know if your relationship is worth fighting for. I am struggling to figure that one out myself as we continue into our second year of limbo. Don't let it go on that long, it will kill both your souls.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I don't see him as "lashing out with hurtful words." I think he was simply sharing his truth with her.


She shared her truth here at TAM. 

He hurt her feelings because she believes a wife, especially her, should be the best sex partner her husband ever had. 

True if she is his one and only and him her's, but otherwise unlikely. 



Which is likely better for the marriage, JoannaG, openness and honesty within or without(outside) a marriage?

Edit: You can see from this where jld and I disagree on this. I agree that his truth is what he told you, though I suspect she implies something with that nomenclature. For what it's worth, I'm taking that to mean he was telling the truth. Qualifying it with "his truth" only means to me that you heard it from his lips, not from TAM members.

I disagree with the idea that you don't share honesty in the marriage. I believe sex in marriage is important enough to break it apart, so we need to be honest with each other. If you are not compatible, tell your spouse in as gentle a way as humanly possible without mincing words. Speak his or her language when doing so. Get a counselor involved if you are afraid of harming them permanently with the truth. 

But, do not mislead, ever.

ee.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> .
> You can characterize him, (or her in opposite situations) as bastards, POS cheaters, or what have you. *But when you get down to reality, a large percentage of spouses will turn to others when the other spouse decides to stingily dole out affection.* (often done as a tool for control)
> Your spouse married you to a great degree but they thought you'd fulfill their emotional and physical needs. If you're not doing that, you can scream, "their involvement in an affair is 100% on them", but deep down you know better.


First, cheating is cheating, no BS drove their WW into an affair unless they packed her up in the car and dropped her off at some PoSOM front door. Have a good day!

But I do agree there are contributing factors. Analyzing those factors (best done in joint MC, IMO) is just another attempt at WHY? When you go down this path (been there and extremely painful) you really need to stay clear of "this time or that day" and look at the Macro/Big Picture of the affair. 

My own WW cheated for years, LTAs, multiple OMs. Did she just wake up after 20+ years of marriage, children "grown" in HS and decide I hate my marriage, my H, my life..._ Hey, I know I'll have an Affair and make it all better now. 

_Nope. In retrospect all pretty typical, plaid out 1000s of times 1000s of marriages. After raising children for 18 years, sex in our marriage had slowed to a drip. For years, I would try to initiate only to be put off, weeks would go to months. After years of denial, I just gave up. I quit asking. If she wanted to, yes I would engage. But more important... because of her lack of interest in me physically, I lost interest in her emotionally. Get it? *We entered the death spiral of betrayal.
*
She resented me and thought I deserted her. She quit asking me for advice, to help her, things she need me to do in our daily lives. She completely stopped complaining to me. I being an idiot took this as a good thing. Finally, I thought she was happy again. 

Classic *"Walk Away Wife" *(pretty good youtube vid) now primed for an affair.

Now all it takes is a "caring, understanding, attentive" PoSOM to pick up on the distress calls (she was broadcasting on multiple frequencies) of a wounded fawn, and the affair begins.

Like I said... while still painful to experience, still pretty typical stuff.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

blahfridge said:


> Perhaps he was neglecting her too, she hasn't said much about the marriage prior to his affair beyond the fact that it was sexless and it was her doing. I would like to know what led her to finding it so difficult to have sex with her H.
> 
> Some of the men here are tripping all over themselves to blame her when we don't know all the facts. When I found about my H first affair, I knew right away that it was connected to our spotty sex life. He claimed that it was ALL about that, but it wasn't. It was about an inability to communicate and a refusal to compromise. It was also the day to day grind of his demanding career and me caring for three children at home with no help.
> 
> ...


My post are not meant to hurt you or OP. They're just meant to have people think outside of their own myopic view. As a man, I can more easily put myself in the husband's shoes but the added info from your last post lets me see that things are not always so simple. I thank you for adding the additional info because it allows us men to think outside of OUR myopic view and see the woman's perspective.

Your example, like most cases, is not caused by a single issue but a combination of issues. What caused the deterioration in the first place? Did the husband becoming a neglectful jerk cause you to lose your desire to provide affection and sex or did the lack of affection and sex turn husband into an @ss? Basically a chicken and egg but in the meantime, a family is in jeopardy of coming apart.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JoannaG said:


> We spent a year HB in what I considered having pretty fantastic and often sex. Pre A, sex was almost non existent (my doing), but was always fun, exciting and very much enjoyable. So the past year, sex has been pretty awesome.


Could you please clarify some things about the above?

How long have the two of you been married?

Was sex frequent when you first married him?

You say that sex became “almost non-existent”. When did this start? What do you mean by almost non-existent? About how often were you two having sex pre-A?

Why is it that you did not want much sex pre-A? What was going on with you? What was going on in your marriage at that time?


.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Your spouse married you to a great degree but they thought you'd fulfill their emotional and physical needs. If you're not doing that, you can scream, "their involvement in an affair is 100% on them", but deep down you know better. For comparison, what would you expect to happen to a grossly underpaid, unappreciated employee if another employer offered them much greater pay and more benefits.


I'm sorry Pheonix, but that's as big a bull***t excuse as "He wasn't paying attention to me." If he wasn't having his needs met, you try to work it out or you leave. There is no excuse for his behavior.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry Pheonix, but that's as big a bull***t excuse as "He wasn't paying attention to me." If he wasn't having his needs met, you try to work it out or you leave. There is no excuse for his behavior.


Some always want to deny any liability when your actions, or lack thereof, backfire on you. Unfortunately, no matter how much finger pointing you do, somebody has shared stolen moments with your spouse. (keep in mind I'm not talking about all cases. Just those were the BS believed they are the only one in the marriage whose needs count and the other can just adjust. )
Just because you want to sample the grass in the pasture, doesn't mean you want to permanently leave the barn yard until you make sure that other grass is the good stuff.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

JoannaG: Sorry you are going through this! I am one of those lucky guys who at his best comes up an inch or so short and finishes a little too soon. My discovery of my wife's P.A. included 15 pages of how great he was in bed, her multiple O's and how big he was. They also made pictures and he sent her videos of him masturbating for her. As recently as 5 or 6 months ago she tells me he made her enjoy sex, how he made her feel like a woman and that when she thinks of sex with me she hates sex, hates men and I guess hates me. She tries to take stuff like that back (she was mad at me, wants to forget it all then gets all emotional and self loathing). If I had found out sooner or caught them in the act I would have left. I struggle with self esteem, questioning my manhood, finding some self confidence and PTSD. Now she is too ill to leave behind and fears that I will leave. She needs my medical, dental and drug plan. She is bed ridden most of the day.
I can't find the words to describe how bad I feel, the thoughts that invade my mind and the resentment that I hold at bay. She says I am pulling away from her and that she loves me. If I didn't get positive feedback from what I do at work, and the support I get I would just give up (one thing I'm not is suicidal)
It is tough, soul destroying. All I can do is empathize and hope that you can find a better way and the support you need.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Thinkitthrough said:


> JoannaG: Sorry you are going through this! I am one of those lucky guys who at his best comes up an inch or so short and finishes a little too soon. My discovery of my wife's P.A. included 15 pages of how great he was in bed, her multiple O's and how big he was. They also made pictures and he sent her videos of him masturbating for her. As recently as 5 or 6 months ago she tells me he made her enjoy sex, how he made her feel like a woman and that when she thinks of sex with me she hates sex, hates men and I guess hates me. She tries to take stuff like that back (she was mad at me, wants to forget it all then gets all emotional and self loathing). If I had found out sooner or caught them in the act I would have left. I struggle with self esteem, questioning my manhood, finding some self confidence and PTSD. Now she is too ill to leave behind and fears that I will leave. She needs my medical, dental and drug plan. She is bed ridden most of the day.
> I can't find the words to describe how bad I feel, the thoughts that invade my mind and the resentment that I hold at bay. She says I am pulling away from her and that she loves me. If I didn't get positive feedback from what I do at work, and the support I get I would just give up (one thing I'm not is suicidal)
> It is tough, soul destroying. All I can do is empathize and hope that you can find a better way and the support you need.


I was reading your other threads my friend and I wish I didnt. I feel so sorry for you. I really dont know where you find all your strenght and stay with her. Cant imagine how you feel. 

I have a question for you. Do you feel like you need to stay with her because of her medical problems or because you love her ?

I hope she realize what a good man you are.

Stay strong and best wishes to you.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

Be Smart: Thank you for those kind words of support. I hope I can explain. I am Asperger's with the qualities of Loyalty, dedication and commitment central to who I am. I stay with my wife because staying and making the best of things seems to be at the core of my personality. I know she has done me dirty, and I feel defeated, impotent and I question what I am doing, but I come back to the fact that I gave my vows, and they are now part of me. To cheat is not in my make up. I am 61 year old now, but I'm not done yet.
I have read much of what you have posted and found your advice sound and good. Thank you for your help and support.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

(((((Thinkitthrough)))))

I commend you. Very few people would be doing what you're doing for your sick WS.


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## JoannaG (Apr 19, 2016)

I hope I haven’t messed up any of these quotes.



jsmart said:


> When a BH comes here and explains he was a [email protected] to his wife, so many female TAMers trip over themselves with how quick they want to assign blame to the BH. Meaning he brought it upon himself. Well for a man, enduring a sexless marriage is the equivalent. Not excusing it in either case but the same way female TAMers can understand a neglected wife stepping out, I can understand a sex starved husband stepping out. *I agree.*





SoulCrushed16 said:


> J,
> Pray tell, what possesed you to ask for the details? *I needed the details. Every last disgusting one.*
> 
> Stop comparing yourself to that **** bucket, it's not going to get you anywhere. So what if she was able to orgasm multiple times during PIV (this btw is just a bunch of BS, made me crack up) 9 times out of 10 it was completely faked. Ask yourself this, why is the ho single with 3 kids? I mean she has porn star qualities right? You'd think those would land her a hubby right? *I’ve said this to my husband. Forty plus year old woman, with three little kids and none of the daddies wanted to stick around and/or treat her well enough for her to want them to stick around. I wonder why that is. I try to tell myself that if she were really as good as she is in MY mind, he probably wouldn't have come home.*





Decorum said:


> The question then becomes is it worth it to you? *Absolutely *
> 
> Is the person and the relationship worth the price of forgiveness? *Absolutely *





jld said:


> I can only imagine how much it hurts to not have him completely disavow any pleasure he had with this woman, any comfort he took in her company, any balm he felt from her ministrations. You want him to say negative things about her, maybe call her names, or ridicule her in other ways. That would likely soothe your hurt feelings, at least temporarily, and superficially.*Uh, yea, it would lol*
> 
> But transparency, as painful as it is at first, can ultimately heal us. We just need to be willing to set aside our pride, and listen to it. *With every new detail, I healed more.*





ThePheonix said:


> You can spin it anyway you want, but when the rubber meets the road, him saying the "hurtful" things is likely him telling her about the lack of enthusiasm she, probably from day one, puts into sex and how this other chick provided what he was missing at home. *Our sex life was lacking in quantity, not quality. But yes, the OW definitely provided what I was not, especially the quantity part of it. She provided him with something I was not and it hurts to live with knowing that.*





just got it 55 said:


> Joanna What was it over at SI that you did not hear what you wanted to hear ? *SI would have said he was not remorseful, asked what he was doing to be safe, etc…they are very one sided and God forbid that the BS ever take ownership for what they contributed to the affair.*





2ntnuf said:


> Honestly, I think his statement meant exactly what he told you. You were neither better or worse in bed than his AP. *Ouch*
> 
> Yes, that does hurt because you want to be the best he's ever had as his current partner. *Not the case at all. * That's fantasy ladies. I'm sorry for that shot of reality. There are mentally ill women who can eff like nobody's business. *OW has serious issues, so yea, maybe she’s one of these that you speak of. *
> 
> ...





jsmart said:


> Any relationship can be salvaged if both parties are willing to do the work. The WH is lashing out with hurtful words to OP because he left a woman that was giving him something he wasn't getting in YEARS. *Absolutely true.* He's putting in the work for R but he's back to a sexless marriage. *Absolutely not true. This has only been the last several weeks and even still, we are having sex. Admittedly, not very enthusiastic on my part though. I do not want to go back to a sexless marriage, which is why I’m so desperate for help with this.*
> 
> Despite the hurtful words, OP's husband loves her. How do we know? Because even after getting mind blowing sex from another woman, he's putting in the effort to R with a woman that's giving him nothing sexually. * Big ouch. * I'd bet that even mediocre sex from OP means more to her husband than the wanton sex he had with POSOW. *Sad, I’m sure it’s true.*
> 
> OP needs to really decide if she wants to save the marriage or remain angry. *I want to save this marriage and know that I need to stop being angry.*





blahfridge said:


> Perhaps he was neglecting her too, she hasn't said much about the marriage prior to his affair beyond the fact that it was sexless and it was her doing. I would like to know what led her to finding it so difficult to have sex with her H. * He has never neglected me. Some medical issues, work schedules, didn’t sleep together, busy with kids, etc…neither one of us made US a priority. We both see this now. He resents that I never wanted sex. I resent that he never communicated with me how he was feeling. Unfortunately, sex wasn’t important to me. *





EleGirl said:


> How long have the two of you been married? *9 years. Not first marriages. *
> 
> Was sex frequent when you first married him? *yes*
> 
> ...





Thinkitthrough said:


> It is tough, soul destroying. All I can do is empathize and hope that you can find a better way and the support you need. *Yours is a really tough story. I am so sorry.*


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## JoannaG (Apr 19, 2016)

I wanted to put the responses in a separate post. 

We had a nice talk the other day – thanks to the responses I got on here. Some were rather difficult to read, but true. They kinda pushed me where I needed to go. 

I own my part of the problems that led to his affair and if I want to make this work, I need to be willing to humble myself and swallow my pride. I let him know how I was feeling and why I was feeling the way that I was. I know that he has a difficult time understanding why I feel the way that I do because he’s never once said anything directly to make me feel inadequate and/or that the OW was in any way better than me. In fact, he constantly tries to reassure me how much he enjoys me and our sex. It’s just the details that he’s given (that I insisted on) that has led me to assume this. Example: the OW had her tongue pierced. Automatically, that means her blow jobs were better, more exciting. Logically, I know this isn’t necessarily the case. However, that’s how it is in my head. This also goes for some of the other details. So when he made that comment several weeks ago, it just reinforced every one of my feelings of inadequacy and failure and it was devastating. 

I told him I didn’t need to be the best he’s ever had, but I did need to be better than HER. So in the most humiliating conversation ever, I asked him what exactly I had to do to make that happen. He didn’t have an answer, and instead, again tried to reassure me how much he enjoyed sex with me in every way. That hurt. Bad. End of conversation.

I need to find a way to accept that I cannot project my thoughts and feelings onto him and have to find a way to make peace and believe what he is telling me. Other than that one comment, he shows me every single day, with words and actions, how much he loves and enjoys me.

The last two nights, I initiated sex. Both times were very enthusiastic and enjoyable.

Today, I’m good. Tomorrow – we’ll see.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JoannaG said:


> I wanted to put the responses in a separate post.
> 
> We had a nice talk the other day – thanks to the responses I got on here. Some were rather difficult to read, but true. They kinda pushed me where I needed to go.
> 
> ...


 Sorry you are having to deal with this. This may sound harsh , but there is nothing you can do to be on an even playing field with her. HE chose to do what he did because she WASN'T you. He most likely had become comfortable or complacent in your relationship and she offered something different from that (not you) , that also had none of the entanglements of day to day life with your spouse. Therefore you are you and can't be anyone else. Most likely after/if he realizes he could lose you the other sidepiece becomes way less consequential (or he may still want his cake a.k.a both of you) and the things that bored him originally may be what draws him back to you. If that's what you want. It was his choices and his fault,100%, to go outside the marriage. Point of the matter quit trying to be his trick(sidepiece) and be yourself, if that's not good enough then so be it. You deserve better.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Joanna, thank you for taking the time to answer everyone. What you are describing is a relationship that, because of life circumstances, had drifted into a state where sex had become less of a priority for both of you initially, and then for only you. You say that you had some medical issues that made sex painful and lost your desire. Was your H compassionate, did he have some empathy for your condition? Did he make an effort to try to reawaken your desire by wooing you again, showing you that he valued you as his wife and partner? Did he ask that you get sitters for the children so that you could spend time together, maybe go away together? In other words, did he try to help you regain your desire for a more regular sex life or did he just complain? 

The reason I ask is because it seems to me that you are taking on way more responsibility here than is perhaps warranted. Your H choose to deal with the problem by having an affair, he could have chosen any number of other ways in which to make things better for the two of you or he could have left. You have owned your role in the poor state of your marriage, but has he truly done so as well?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Couldn't agree more with the posts by Rubix Cubed and blahfridge. 

You are putting way too much responsibility on yourself. You are putting way too much emphasis on being better than her. 

You aren't her. You don't want to be her. You want to be the best that you can be. That's really it.

If he doesn't want you, then he can have that skank. 

When I commented that the lack of sex was a big deal, I meant it was in the sense of it contributing to an unhappy marriage, not his affair. 

His affair is on him. It's his responsibility completely. You did not force him to have an affair. You did not push him to it. He decided on his own to have an affair. That's not your fault, even if you didn't offer sex. He had options and he chose to have an affair. 

Somehow, you have to separate those things.

Just be the best you can be and keep going. 

What he wanted was you. He married you. You are or were the woman who was at the top of his list, or he wouldn't have married you. How you perform in bed means little. Those things can be worked on by having fun and loving each other. And, you don't have to be the best in bed he's ever had. There are so many things besides sex that make up the woman he loves, you. She is not you and never will be.

And, she is not better because of a piercing. He knows little about her. She has her issues. He just hasn't found out what they are, yet. Please don't beat yourself up. 

Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It sounds like your goal is to work on your marriage and get it to the point that it’s better than ever. There are some books that I think would help both you and your husband get there.

“His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”

The books are meant for both of you to read and to do the work that is needed. There is a reason that you were not interested in sex much prior to his affair. I don’t think you have even really explored that. In order to fix your marriage, you need to figure out why. Your husband also needs to explore why he had an affair instead of doing what it takes to get your attention and to turn around your marriage. I think that the books will help you BOTH do that.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

JoannaG said:


> I wanted to put the responses in a separate post.
> 
> We had a nice talk the other day ? thanks to the responses I got on here. Some were rather difficult to read, but true. They kinda pushed me where I needed to go.
> 
> ...


J,
Do you know why your H enjoys and loves having sex with you? Because you're his WIFE and he loves you. Sex between two people that love each other is incredible. You don't need to compare yourself to the AP, she was somebody he fvcked and used. You're who he LOVES and is willing to work on R despite your shortcomings. Stop selling yourself short. AP is a skank (btw, 40 +year olds with sense don't pierce their tongues. This is just so trashy) you know it and your H knows (even though he won't admit it). Not wife material. She's just something he used to get off. You will never be her; however, she tried to be you. You have to find a way to let that insecurity go otherwise it will consume you.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Just imagine OP if WS had a gf or partner before you guys met who was 'better' than you in bed, or even the same. 

Would you spend time worrying about that? 

It would never have even been discussed. The difference in your case was that the sex happened in an affair which is why it was discussed and why it is hurting so much. 

And what does 'better' mean? More orgasms blah blah? I think you are focusing too much on the mechanical aspect. There are probably 1000s of women out there your H or any H could have sex with which was 'better' than their wives. And the same for the wives. But so what? Any man & woman can have sex, only hours after meeting as in a ONS. And the sex might be great! So what? 

Instead of fighting it, perhaps accept that. It's like as if you are putting yourself in a competition with OW & telling yourself you have lost before the competition even starts. So naturally you feel miserable. You will mentally score it on a scorecard each time you have sex. Was it good enough? Was it better than last time or not? I think you may be already doing that. When a couple is tired, the sex can be more cursory. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing each & every time. Stop putting yourself in that competition. Sex is about love, not orgasms. 

*I think your real hurt is that he had an affair & you are transferring & projecting every ounce of your hurt onto the sexual aspect. 
*
You need to have more confidence & faith in yourself. Your H can't give you that. Only you. There's nothing more attractive than confidence. 

I think I would try to do the following if I was in your position. If you haven't stopped already, I would completely stop the conversations about whether the sex was better with OW. Act as if you have put it in the "So what" category and project the confidence, sexual & otherwise, you had before which made him fall in love with you. This is for YOU, not H. Get that OW out of your bedroom! 

Easier said than done I know but a lot of self-talk is required. Maybe something like this. Think of her out there on the hunt again for another man, promoting herself as a sexual goddess & fooling them & faking it with her 1000 orgasms when they even look at her LOL. And you know why she's doing that? Because she wants a new husband! It hasn't worked for her so far & she hasn't even been able to hang onto the ones she had. You however have a husband. You're the winner.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

JoannaG said:


> I wanted to put the responses in a separate post.
> 
> We had a nice talk the other day – thanks to the responses I got on here. Some were rather difficult to read, but true. They kinda pushed me where I needed to go.
> 
> ...


Dont hate me for saying this my Lady but your Husband is a fool.
He has no idea how to appreciate you as a woman or his wife.

You didnt post a lot,but reading your respones it looks to me like you did all of the hard work in your Marriage. He just sits there and let you suffer in your pain.

About those "pictures" in your head and thinking am I better-you need to realize you are better woman then she is in more ways then you think. A lot of men are looking for someone like you and not OW. If your Husband cant see this,then he is even a bigger fool,sorry. 

I never heard about bad blow job or any stuff like that so put your mind on more important things and tell your Husband to move his a$$.

Never blame yourself,because you never caused any of this. If he cant enjoy himself with the woman who loves him then his life is really sad. I am not speaking about sex. Sure it is nice,but it is only for 2-3 hours and then what!!!

Stay strong.


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