# Any Other "Married Man Sex Life" Readers?



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I know that there are several guys out there that have either read the "Married Man Sex Life Primer" or the blog. I thought I would start a post to share your successes, failures, thoughts, insights or how you are working through the concepts.

For me, I am totally Beta and need to lean to add Alpha. (I am also reading "No More Mr Nice Guy")

Here are some things I do not need to worry about:

1. Working out. I have been running for 2 years and keep at a healthy weight.

Here are some things I am starting immediately:

1. Taking total control of our sex. Most of the time she will not initiate...get over it. Fortunately she responds most of the time and even though she was not really into it at the beginning, she ends up really into it and has a huge orgasm.

2. If she is too tired to get into it, the accept her willing pu$$y and go for it. 

3. Take the lead in all areas of our relationship. Instead of, "Where do you want to eat," it will be, "Lets go here" and let her suggest something else if she wants to.

That is a start...I am really new at this...like one week.

How are you other guys doing?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I am not a guy, but I do go out and occasionally read through the blog. Maybe aside from some of the more juvenile language (sorry Athol) that probably speaks more to men (which is his target audience anyway), I don't have too much of a problem with most of the concepts. I do find a few things far out there, but I don't usually agree with anything 100%. I take what speaks to me, and leave the rest. My H could care less about looking at the blog or book, and mostly I don't think he needs to, but I have fun comparing what Athol says versus what happens in our marriage and how my H acts. 

As long as a husband is being considerate of his wife and being neither overly obsequious nor overly domineering, it it all good.

However, you do need to make sure that in the 'leading' you don't become domineering or insensitive. If your wife is well and truly not up for sex, you may have better success waiting for a more opportune time and not make too much of a habit to just take - duty sex all the time is pretty pitiful and morale-debilitating in my opinion - on both people's parts.

Your wife sounds like a lucky lady. 

Best wishes.


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

:iagree: 

except with the juvenile language part.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> As long as a husband is being considerate of his wife and being neither overly obsequious nor overly domineering, it it all good.
> 
> However, you do need to make sure that in the 'leading' you don't become domineering or insensitive. If your wife is well and truly not up for sex, you may have better success waiting for a more opportune time and not make too much of a habit to just take - duty sex all the time is pretty pitiful and morale-debilitating in my opinion - on both people's parts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the "best wishes!" Believe me, being insensitive or domineering is not my nature. In fact, just the opposite. Some "Alpha" added in will only help. There is also no "duty sex" here, just a willingness to meet the others need. 

When I read the post on the MMSL site about the wife not needing an orgasm, but saying, "Go ahead...have some fun!" My wife said, "That is what I have trying to tell you!"

Just to give an example though, yesterday morning, I did not ask her, I just snuggled up, started kissing her passionately, and exhibited the attitude like, "I have to have you NOW." At one point I said, "I want you on top of me," which she gladly did. I must say, judging from her loud moaning, I rocked her world!


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

I read Athol's site, but I would say read it with a pinch of salt. There are some nuggets of pure gold in there, but there are some steaming turds too. Pick through it carefully, take what works for you, ignore or laugh about the rest.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

:iagree:

Some good some bad. The premise is good.... I do a combination of books and even though sex has not happened yet. Fingers crossed 4 tonight...I've certainly built a good foundation for great sex in our future.

My wife is great right now in all other areas... sex is just a matter of time.

MMSL + Calle Zorro + His needs Her needs + PM Help


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am the wife, the only reader in our marraige. 

I Bought the book cause I buy a ton of books, read half of it off & on. One of the more interesting points in this book, for me... is ....... BETA men make *better lovers *because they are naturally more into pleasing their women, I already knew this of coarse, but so nice to see it admitted in print in a book as highly praised as this one is. 

Even Athol admits he is naturally more on the Beta side, but of coarse all men need a nice dose of both the Alpha and Beta traits to be the best men they can be.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Sawney Beane said:


> I read Athol's site, but I would say read it with a pinch of salt. There are some nuggets of pure gold in there, but there are some steaming turds too. Pick through it carefully, take what works for you, ignore or laugh about the rest.


Curious about which bits are the "steaming turds".


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Atholk said:


> Curious about which bits are the "steaming turds".


Anything that involves advice to flirt with other women. 99% of the time this will get you the cold shoulder, accusations of infidelity or a smack round the face - or all of the above. Sorry, but that entire line of reasoning is a crock of ****. Maybe it does work 1% of the time, but hey, just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't mean it's actually any use to most people.

Oh, and anything that involves a reference to any science fiction film / tv series / book / comic


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Sawney Beane said:


> Anything that involves advice to flirt with other women. 99% of the time this will get you the cold shoulder, accusations of infidelity or a smack round the face - or all of the above. Sorry, but that entire line of reasoning is a crock of ****. Maybe it does work 1% of the time, but hey, just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't mean it's actually any use to most people.
> 
> Oh, and anything that involves a reference to any science fiction film / tv series / book / comic


Well I feel like a monsterous T-Rex on the landscape if I'm leaving huge steaming turds that are talked about.

Carry on.


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

Disagree w Beane - at least on the flirting thing, per se. When reading ANY of these types of discussions/books it is naive to take things too literally. The flirting thing is goes back to the pre-approval concept. "Optimizing" situations which demonstrate that you are of "value" to others is very potent (hot!) in drawing/redrawing the desired ones interest. Of course, as is the case with any power tool, it can be misused and dangerous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

DanG said:


> Disagree w Beane - at least on the flirting thing, per se. When reading ANY of these types of discussions/books it is naive to take things too literally. The flirting thing is goes back to the pre-approval concept. "Optimizing" situations which demonstrate that you are of "value" to others is very potent (hot!) in drawing/redrawing the desired ones interest. Of course, as is the case with any power tool, it can be misused and dangerous.


I do agree with these things, my husband has never been a flirter, he is too quiet accually (unlike myself of coarse) and I have felt my temperature rising for him when I witnessed him 
engaged talking to younger hotter women, he wasn't even flirting, but still "I kinda liked it", made me WANT HIM MORE SO-- I really think had he been more of a conversationalist over the years with other women, I might have even been MORE attracted to him -when I otherwise took him for granted....it certainly would have caught my attentions.

.....there is some added attraction feature to this- at least it works for this woman! I was not overtaken by jealousy either. He was not doing anything wrong.  He was not overstepping any of our boundaries. 

Even in a Marriage book written by a Jewish Rabbi Amazon.com: Kosher Adultery: Seduce and Sin with Your Spouse (9781580627924): Shmuley Boteach

....it recommends a # of things couples can do to "jump start" attraction if it has been lost.........one thing is........go to a Bar, but enter separately like you are not together...... each sit away from each other and just WATCH as the other engages in conversation with the opposite sex ...just seeing how someone else may be interested in our mate -somehow influences our LUST for them. If there is no pangs of jealousy rising within you for witnessing this, well this isn't a good sign, if so, you have something to work with. 

Something to that effect. Of coarse all things in moderation, and not to intentionally hurt our spouses.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

OK, maybe it works for some people but I have only ever seen people get slapped around the face or left stood at the bar or abandoned in a restaurant for flirting. It seems roughly the sexual equivalent of poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick to improve your vision. :scratchhead:


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Anything that involves advice to flirt with other women. 99% of the time this will get you the cold shoulder, accusations of infidelity or a smack round the face - or all of the above. Sorry, but that entire line of reasoning is a crock of ****. Maybe it does work 1% of the time, but hey, just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't mean it's actually any use to most people.
> 
> Oh, and anything that involves a reference to any science fiction film / tv series / book / comic


I actually agree with your assertion on flirting. Because the 'hottest' thing is when your husband is with you, someone eyes him or flirts with him, and he still only turns his attention to you and ignores the flirting. THAT is hot. The other - with him openly flirting with someone else - huge turn-off. Maybe it works different during dating or when you are in a rotten marriage :scratchhead:, but I don't see that working well in a good marriage. At least my H would be in the doghouse if he openly flirted with someone else. 

And, I don't mind the Trekkie references. I've always loved Star Trek.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I actually agree with your assertion on flirting. Because the 'hottest' thing is when your husband is with you, someone eyes him or flirts with him, and he still only turns his attention to you and ignores the flirting. THAT is hot.


You are very unusual in that respect. Practically all women I've been with have treated my focus on her and my ignorance of other women as the expected thing and never openly reward me for it. Ever.



Enchantment said:


> The other - with him openly flirting with someone else - huge turn-off. Maybe it works different during dating or when you are in a rotten marriage :scratchhead:, but I don't see that working well in a good marriage. At least my H would be in the doghouse if he openly flirted with someone else.


It takes me flirting with other women to get a rise out of her, some women respond well to that and some, like you, don't.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Enchantment said:


> I actually agree with your assertion on flirting. *Because the 'hottest' thing is when your husband is with you, someone eyes him or flirtats with him, and he still only turns his attention to you and ignores the flirting*. THAT is hot. The other - with him openly flirting with someone else - huge turn-off. Maybe it works different during dating or when you are in a rotten marriage :scratchhead:, but I don't see that working well in a good marriage. At least my H would be in the doghouse if he openly flirted with someone else.


 I agree with this , but I wouldn't hold it against my husband or put him in the doghouse if he engaged in talking to a flirtatous woman, I just wouldn't. So long as he was not escalating something on his end. I would probably find the interaction entertaining, she'd back away when she realized it wasn't going anywhere. 

Anyway, all of this is just dreaming, we aren't in our early 20's going to the bars dressed to kill where anyone would care anyway. At our age, and where we go, won't be no flirting going on, just regular adult to adult conversation and I like to see mine openly talk to a variety of people & have a glowing confidence doing so. His way is generally to kick back in the background & watch me do most of the interacting -with a word here or there. I LOVE to see him engage with others. 



> OK, maybe it works for some people but I have only ever seen people get slapped around the face or left stood at the bar or abandoned in a restaurant for flirting. It seems roughly the sexual equivalent of poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick to improve your vision.


 What you are describing here is....... disrespecful men who otherwise ignore their women looking for a thrill. What I was talking about is way less than anything related to this scenerio. Although some women might want to act this way -just cause her guy talked to a hot blonde at the bar, that is complete overkill to me. 

In the book, I am assuming these things are geared towards men who desperately need to get the attraction BACK flowing in their marraiges.... most of their wives have grown a little bored, taking them for granted -for whatever reason, the man is likely "too doting"..... 

In our relationship, it was like this. My husband never did a living thing to make me jealous our entire dating & marraige.... even when I broke up with him for a short time in our teens, he waited for me like a puppy dog. Love him, I really do, but his being this way was not doing him any "attraction" favors. Now , had I heard of another girl stepping in or hearing of his interest in another, I would have probably wrecked my car to get back to him.... I was a little mixed up then, he was almost too devoted, he was just a "sure thing", I knew he would be there, and Yes, I took advantage. Hey I was young! 

I am sure my leniency in all of this is how he IS , how he treats me, I know his heart. No, I don't need him to flirt with another woman to build my lust for him...

But yet I will never forget the very 1st time I felt these feelings rising within .......It was our 1st trip to the Gentleman's Club with friends (this place has alot of married couples - not a dive) & this beautiful dancer came over , sat down beside him, his face just lit up , I watched him, he seemed so happy, even at ease, laughing, I enjoyed watching him interact with her somehow, I was sitting with my GF's a little away, then after about 10 minutes , he asked me if he could get a Lap Dance (his 1st -at little late in life at age 45).... and oh my....all of a sudden these feelings just started to rise within me, I have never felt them before, I was a bit conflicted like... how can my husband want to see another woman naked like that ! I recognized them as .... jealousy, but at the same time.... I LIKED it!! It just made me WANT him more so ...want to claim him as my own... which I did later that night - It was very erotic ! I wasn't jealous of what seeing her did for him either, he seemed to be in rare form, I told him we could go back there every week!! 

I never once questioned his love for me. As crazy as this may sound to other women. I guess I *like* getting a little jealous! 


Just my personal experience .


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Zzyzx said:


> You are very unusual in that respect. Practically all women I've been with have treated my focus on her and my ignorance of other women as the expected thing and never openly reward me for it. Ever.
> 
> 
> It takes me flirting with other women to get a rise out of her, some women respond well to that and some, like you, don't.


I think this is part of the problem: people expect to get rewarded for NOT doing stuff they _actually shouldn't be doing in the first place._

You DON'T get rewarded for NOT walking mud through the house or NOT breaking the crockery, but you catch hell when you DO. But why would you expect to be rewarded for not being careless in the first place?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with this , but I wouldn't hold it against my husband or put him in the doghouse if he engaged in talking to a flirtatous woman, I just wouldn't. So long as he was not escalating something on his end. I would probably find the interaction entertaining, she'd back away when she realized it wasn't going anywhere.
> 
> What you are describing here is....... disrespecful men who otherwise ignore their women looking for a thrill. What I was talking about is way less than anything related to this scenerio. Although some women might want to act this way -just cause her guy talked to a hot blonde at the bar, that is complete overkill to me.


In chemistry, there's a saying: "Assume an ideal solution - then forget about that, 'cos it never applies in the real world..." In the real world, people *do* react to their husband / wife talking to the hot blonde / hunk at the bar by storming off, or whatever. Whether or not you think it's overkill and you wouldn't isn't relevant to the large body of people who's partners DO think it's a problem and wreak vengeance on their "wayward" other halves.



> In the book, I am assuming these things are geared towards men who desperately need to get the attraction BACK flowing in their marraiges.... most of their wives have grown a little bored, taking them for granted -for whatever reason, the man is likely "too doting".....


I think the problem is that it garners attention, not attraction. A subtle, but important distinction. Attraction is "oh wow, I'd stopped noticing how wonderful he is..." Attention is "WTF does he think he's doing, the dity ****? Well he can FORGET get anything tonight, or tomorrow, or anytime this YEAR!!!"



> In our relationship, it was like this. My husband never did a living thing to make me jealous our entire dating & marraige.... even when I broke up with him for a short time in our teens, he waited for me like a puppy dog. Love him, I really do, but his being this way was not doing him any "attraction" favors. Now , had I heard of another girl stepping in or hearing of his interest in another, I would have probably wrecked my car to get back to him.... I was a little mixed up then, he was almost too devoted, he was just a "sure thing", I knew he would be there, and Yes, I took advantage. Hey I was young!
> 
> I am sure my leniency in all of this is how he IS , how he treats me, I know his heart. No, I don't need him to flirt with another woman to build my lust for him...
> 
> ...


Most people aren't comfortable with feeling jealous, whether a little or a lot, and whilst I know a lot of the ladies on here are comfortable with their men going to strip clubs, especially with them, outside these hallowed pages, the general attitude is vastly less (how shall I put it?) positive? As in: "Not if you ever want to sleep with me ever again in this lifetime..."


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Zzyzx said:


> You are very unusual in that respect. Practically all women I've been with have treated my focus on her and my ignorance of other women as the expected thing and never openly reward me for it. Ever.
> 
> 
> It takes me flirting with other women to get a rise out of her, some women respond well to that and some, like you, don't.


I think you are hanging around too many insecure women. 

I remember an incident during my college years. I dated quite a bit, and there was this guy I dated for a while who I was smitten with. He had the looks and charm. He was in a band (jazz, mind you, not rock). He was handsome and charming as all get out and girls flocked to him and flirted, and he naturally flirted back and often started much of the flirting himself.

I would often end up wandering away and getting my own drink and sitting with the drummer before he came back around to find me.

I finally realized that there were a few things going on. It fed his EGO to flirt and be flirted with and when it was being fed he could not concentrate on anything else. I figured I had more self-respect and was worth more than waiting around on someone who either had an over-sized ego, was totally inconsiderate, or even was intentionally being inconsiderate (malicious intent) to get a rise out of me. NONE of those prospects were even remotely attractive to me.

So, I wiped the dust of him off my boots and headed into the sunset for much better times with someone who IS considerate of me.

If any of these women who have men flirt with others flagrantly in front of them had any measure of self-respect, they would shake the dust of those men off their boots and ride in to the sunset too. I'm not gonna fight with a bunch of silly women over a man, especially one who demonstrates he is so not worth it. 

But, you know a bunch of men fighting over me? Hmmm....


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm not sure why some people find it hot when their partners flirt with others. I guess its the "different strokes for different folks" thing. I had to get rid of two ex's for this reason - personally I find it unacceptable. I don't reward my husband for NOT flirting - it's just common decency. Just like I don't reward my husband for NOT taking a dump in the middle of a fully packed shopping mall filled with school children at christmas.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Ok, I am going to get back to the original idea of the post (as interesting as this has been) which was not so much debating the book, but telling what principles from the book have worked.

It has been years since I tried this, but last night after we finished putting the lights in the tree, I pulled her into me and started to passionately kiss her(15 seconds or more), and she really responded. Then I reached up behind her back, undid her bra and tore her clothes off like I just had to have her NOW (which was true). I picked her up, put her on the couch, and proceeded to, shall we say, very passionately f*ck her. WOW...did she ever respond. That was really HOT!!! She really liked it!! (Thanks Athol!!)

Anybody else have some success with the principles in the book?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think this is part of the problem: people expect to get rewarded for NOT doing stuff they _actually shouldn't be doing in the first place._
> 
> You DON'T get rewarded for NOT walking mud through the house or NOT breaking the crockery, but you catch hell when you DO. But why would you expect to be rewarded for not being careless in the first place?


Do you thank your spouse for treating you right? When they do you a favor? Why? Isn't that what spouses should do? Why should you thank them for doing what they are supposed to do? Because you want them to realize that you appreciate what they did for you. That you appreciate the fact the even though Mr. Tall, Dark and Handsome was flirting with them, they kept it light and squeezed a little closer to you. That despite Ms. Cute and Perky trying to get to friendly, they kept their distance and got back to their wife as quickly as possible.

In a perfect world, none of us should need to get rewarded for doing the "correct" thing. But I fail to see how it hurts your marriage to show appreciation and occasionally reward your spouse when they actually do the right thing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

romantic_guy said:


> Ok, I am going to get back to the original idea of the post (as interesting as this has been) which was not so much debating the book, but telling what principles from the book have worked.
> 
> It has been years since I tried this, but last night after we finished putting the lights in the tree, I pulled her into me and started to passionately kiss her(15 seconds or more), and she really responded. Then I reached up behind her back, undid her bra and tore her clothes off like I just had to have her NOW (which was true). I picked her up, put her on the couch, and proceeded to, shall we say, very passionately f*ck her. WOW...did she ever respond. That was really HOT!!! She really liked it!! (Thanks Athol!!)
> 
> Anybody else have some success with the principles in the book?


Being more assertive and telling her what I want sexually have been very successful. Taking the lead more often with the presumption that sex would be occuring has been well received. Part of that was my better understanding her signals - she was in many ways asking me for sex, but I was not understanding the message. 

Also, fixing stuff around the house (though I figured this out before reading anything from Athol). Between kids and me working lots of hours, weekends tended to be lazy. Getting to a couple of projects every weekend (plus including my kids in completing them) has been a big turn on for her.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Do you thank your spouse for treating you right? When they do you a favor? Why? Isn't that what spouses should do? Why should you thank them for doing what they are supposed to do? Because you want them to realize that you appreciate what they did for you. That you appreciate the fact the even though Mr. Tall, Dark and Handsome was flirting with them, they kept it light and squeezed a little closer to you. That despite Ms. Cute and Perky trying to get to friendly, they kept their distance and got back to their wife as quickly as possible.
> 
> In a perfect world, none of us should need to get rewarded for doing the "correct" thing. But I fail to see how it hurts your marriage to show appreciation and occasionally reward your spouse when they actually do the right thing.


 Yes, Mrs Beane and I are grateful and demonstratively appreciative of the normal, decent things that we do for one another. What I was trying to get across is different to that. I think HelloooNurse put it very succinctly:


HelloooNurse said:


> I don't reward my husband for NOT flirting - it's just common decency. Just like I don't reward my husband for NOT taking a dump in the middle of a fully packed shopping mall filled with school children at christmas.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Yes, Mrs Beane and I are grateful and demonstratively appreciative of the normal, decent things that we do for one another. What I was trying to get across is different to that. I think HelloooNurse put it very succinctly:


I am still not sure that makes sense to me, though perhaps I am interpretting that quote differently. I don't reward my wife for not going up to a guy and flirting with him. But let's say we meet a guy who is her type at a party, for example, and he starts flirting with her. I do "reward her" for not flirting, or shutting it down quickly, because she has turn down something (the quick ego boost that comes with the flirting) because of me and our marriage. To me, that is the right and decent thing to do, and I want her to know that I appreciate it. Although we have never really discussed that, she has shown me appreciation when I do the same thing. Some times that thanks is nothing more than a quick kiss on the cheek or a squeeze of a the hand as we mingle, but it sends the message that we are glad that we each continue to chose us.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am still not sure that makes sense to me, though perhaps I am interpretting that quote differently. I don't reward my wife for not going up to a guy and flirting with him. But let's say we meet a guy who is her type at a party, for example, and he starts flirting with her. I do "reward her" for not flirting, or shutting it down quickly, because she has turn down something (the quick ego boost that comes with the flirting) because of me and our marriage. To me, that is the right and decent thing to do, and I want her to know that I appreciate it. Although we have never really discussed that, she has shown me appreciation when I do the same thing. Some times that thanks is nothing more than a quick kiss on the cheek or a squeeze of a the hand as we mingle, but it sends the message that we are glad that we each continue to chose us.


I think you're coming at this very differently: you seem to be saying that you should say "well done" for resisting a temptation (in this case flirting with a member of the opposite sex) and reward that. 

I on the other hand look at it this way. My wife wouldn't reward me for NOT asking her mother if she cleans her teeth with horsesh*t or does her mouth smell that way on its own. She would expect me _not_ to because it would be highly disrespectful to do so. Ditto flirting.

Your method works for you, so that's great. Our method works for us. Ditto.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I did another long post & deleted it, I don't think many would understand me, I feel I might be giving off a bad impression. I am a little outside the box in more than a few ways. 

We are not flirters in our marriage, I hope I have not given such an impression. We are likely more lienent than the average couple in regards to the oppoiste sex with talking & openness though (not flirting) - but this is becaues of our 100% Transparency in all things --and we do everything together anyway -where he is , I am .... where I am, he is ....we have always been 100% monogomous & faithful to one another. 

I want to do a thread on the "Gift of Transparency" one of these days -soon. I feel this is one of the most important things any of us can give to our husbands & wives. Flirting would be a non issue in such a case. In itself, it keeps us on the straight & narrow.

I have thanked my husband for things that I probably didn't need too, sometimes I thank him just for having sex ! I know I don't need to do that, but who cares, I am thankful - so it flows out the mouth! I guess some things I don't analyze , I just speak. 

If I felt he was temped to do something to hurt me and he didn't do it , I would likely acknowledge and praise that. It wouldn't matter to me whether it was right or wrong, in our house, we discuss literally every darn thing on our minds, so that would get discussed too . We are quite radical about HOW MUCH we share with each other.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> another.
> 
> I want to do a thread on the "Gift of Transparency" one of these days -soon. I feel this is one of the most important things any of us can give to our husbands & wives. Flirting would be a none issue in such a case. In itself, it keeps us on the straight & narrow.


So do it - no time like the present!:smthumbup:


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think you're coming at this very differently: you seem to be saying that you should say "well done" for resisting a temptation (in this case flirting with a member of the opposite sex) and reward that.
> 
> .


Exactly. Should I get rewarded for never having been in jail? Is rewarding someone for avoiding crappy behavior really something we should do in marriage? 
Also, I am the 99% that would grab my purse and haul ass out of there. You want to blatantly disrespect me by flirting with others, go for it. I'll be at home packing your crap in Hefty bags.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I really think that the whole point of "flirting" was to wake up the other partner; to shock them into the reality of, yes I might lose him or her. There is great danger in marriage when we say she/he will never leave me. I need to be a great combination of alpha and beat to my wife. I need to help around the house, take her a cup of tea in the morning, constantly tell her how much I love her, do the laundry, etc. while taking the lead in our relationship and making the sex so hot that she would not even THINK of looking elsewhere.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Being able to recognize and deal with Sh!t Tests was one of my biggest takeaways.

I also love the phrase 'rationalization hamster'.

With regard to 'taking' your spouse, I think the staging, and where you currently are in the dynamic is important. When it works, it's magic ... it indicates all of the right things in terms of being pair-bonded and secure.

If it utterly flames out ... then there is other, more important groundwork to do.

Really glad it worked out for you. Success begets success.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

romantic_guy said:


> I really think that the whole point of "flirting" was to wake up the other partner; to shock them into the reality of, yes I might lose him or her. There is great danger in marriage when we say she/he will never leave me. I need to be a great combination of alpha and beat to my wife. I need to help around the house, take her a cup of tea in the morning, constantly tell her how much I love her, do the laundry, etc. while taking the lead in our relationship and making the sex so hot that she would not even THINK of looking elsewhere.


This was my point too -in that long post I deleted. I agree with your words here! Some do need a shock into reality, what they may stand to loose.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Do you thank your spouse for treating you right? When they do you a favor? Why? Isn't that what spouses should do? Why should you thank them for doing what they are supposed to do? Because you want them to realize that you appreciate what they did for you. That you appreciate the fact the even though Mr. Tall, Dark and Handsome was flirting with them, they kept it light and squeezed a little closer to you. That despite Ms. Cute and Perky trying to get to friendly, they kept their distance and got back to their wife as quickly as possible.
> 
> In a perfect world, none of us should need to get rewarded for doing the "correct" thing. But I fail to see how it hurts your marriage to show appreciation and occasionally reward your spouse when they actually do the right thing.


Well said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Flirting is destabilizing. Destabilizing is sometimes very much necessary. It's like a reset button.

Those who rail against 'destabilization' either have been deeply wounded by a disconnected partner at some point, are are control freaks.

Destabilization can be source of friction. Friction can reignite passion. Another thing I picked up that never, ever, would have crossed my mind as a good thing to do previously.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Flirting is destabilizing. Destabilizing is sometimes very much necessary. It's like a reset button.
> 
> Those who rail against 'destabilization' either have been deeply wounded by a disconnected partner at some point, are are control freaks.
> 
> Destabilization can be source of friction. Friction can reignite passion. Another thing I picked up that never, ever, would have crossed my mind as a good thing to do previously.


It might work for some but not others. If it helped you out, then awesome.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Yes, Mrs Beane and I are grateful and demonstratively appreciative of the normal, decent things that we do for one another. What I was trying to get across is different to that. I think HelloooNurse put it very succinctly:





Sawney Beane said:


> I think you're coming at this very differently: you seem to be saying that you should say "well done" for resisting a temptation (in this case flirting with a member of the opposite sex) and reward that.
> 
> I on the other hand look at it this way. My wife wouldn't reward me for NOT asking her mother if she cleans her teeth with horsesh*t or does her mouth smell that way on its own. She would expect me _not_ to because it would be highly disrespectful to do so. Ditto flirting.


People get rewarded all the time for doing what is expected. For not missing days at work. For doing well on a project. For landing the account. I don't see why marriage is different.



> Your method works for you, so that's great. Our method works for us. Ditto.


With everything that has been said, I most definitely agree with this.


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## I'mAllIn (Oct 20, 2011)

I read MMSL pretty regularly. I enjoy Athol's sense of humor, and the general premise that the spouse/marriage that you have is your best chance at the sex life you want. The whole idea of the best husbands being a balance of alpha & beta seems right on, and there are lots of other "gems" hidden in there, but also lots of things I think are pretty dangerous. The whole "flirt like you could get someone else if you wanted to" doesn't seem like the smartest idea for a man who is looking for advice because he isn't getting as much sex as he wants. Seems like a fine line between flirting like he could get someone else and flirting with someone who really knows what she's doing and ending up losing his wife.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It might work for some but not others. If it helped you out, then awesome.


Speculative. Obviously not in my marriage.

In dating, I like to flirt as a means of measuring her interest, and importantly, her confidence and sense of humor.


I also like reverse flirting. I'll say, 

"You do know that guy just checked you out, right? Can't blame him."

This should be pretty safe for a husband to do for his wife.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Speculative. Obviously not in my marriage.
> 
> In dating, I like to flirt as a means of measuring her interest, and importantly, her confidence and sense of humor.
> 
> ...


It's the context for sure.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> For landing the account. I don't see why marriage is different.


I'll take this one as the example. You get rewarded for landing the account. Well and good. But do you get rewarded for NOT going into the negiotiations about the account and deliberately p*ssing off your customer? No. It's expected you give it your best shot. If you do that and it doesn't come off, OK, fair enough, better luck next time. But you don't expect to get a reward for NOT leaving a turd in the punchbowl. 

For some people, flirting is like getting / not getting the account, for others it's like taking a dump in the middle of the negotating table and wiping your arse on the customer's portfolio.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Flirting is destabilizing. Destabilizing is sometimes very much necessary. It's like a reset button.
> 
> Those who rail against 'destabilization' either have been deeply wounded by a disconnected partner at some point, are are control freaks.
> 
> Destabilization can be source of friction. Friction can reignite passion. Another thing I picked up that never, ever, would have crossed my mind as a good thing to do previously.


It's a case of what the equilibrium in the relationship is.

For some people, their equilibrium is static. They are at a point where they are in balance but not moving. In this case, destabilisation might be necessary, but is potentially dangerous because there may be very little "residual stability" that will allow a new, better equilibrium to be achieved. THe relationship is like a stack of cans in a supermarket - you topple it over and can't get it back up!

Others have a dynamic equilibrium - in the way a martial artist is always balanced, but moving. Like homeostatis in living things - constantly reacting to restore equilibrium. There's no need to destabilise, because you're acting and reacting all the time. Reading the dynamic (consciously and unconsciously), acting and re-acting. Stable, but not static.

That said, flirting is just plain rude. It's like confronting a partner with bad breath by asking if they brush their teeth with horsesh*t or does their mouth smell that way on its own. Sends the message, but may not provoke any sort of positive change.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I don’t agree with flirting as a way to increase a partner’s desire for you. My reasoning is that at the times I caught my wife flirting all it achieved in generating in me was a very deep and lasting anger and sadness. There is no passion or desire where there is anger and an angry man is not attractive. And it was the same with my wife. Whenever I flirted she either got sad (withdrawn) or angry (withdrawn) and again there’s no passion or desire there when those emotions are around.

It needs attraction and desire in both partners and for good sex it needs passion as well. So the trick is for both partners to keep themselves attractive and desirable.

With some of the guys that post, I don’t get this asking if they can have sex. In over 40 years with my wife I never once asked for sex (although on a few occasions I jokingly offered to pay for it) yet I had sex anytime I wanted it. I think these things have a great deal to do with the type of wife a man has. For example some wives will consider it part of the deal to always give their husbands sex (MEMS position on things), in perhaps the same way as they’ll always give them home cooked meals. And in this way these women see sex and food as the way to their man’s heart and their way of keeping them by their side. And then there are other types of women who use sex as both a reward and a punishment and if she’s in punishment mode neither flirting or anything else will get you sex with her.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

AFEH said:


> With some of the guys that post, I don’t get this asking if they can have sex. In over 40 years with my wife I never once asked for sex (although on a few occasions I jokingly offered to pay for it) yet I had sex anytime I wanted it. I think these things have a great deal to do with the type of wife a man has. For example some wives will consider it part of the deal to always give their husbands sex (MEMS position on things), in perhaps the same way as they’ll always give them home cooked meals. And in this way these women see sex and food as the way to their man’s heart and their way of keeping them by their side. And then there are other types of women who use sex as both a reward and a punishment and if she’s in punishment mode neither flirting or anything else will get you sex with her.


Up until recently I would always say, "So do you want to do something tonight?" My wife never used sex as both a reward and a punishment, but I still would ask. It was a concern for her, but I have come to realize, as I have already stated, that she may not "feel like it" so if I just go ahead, she will get often into it. I have also come to realize (as she has tried to tell me) that there are times she does not have the energy for an orgasm but is perfectly willing for me to go anyway. This is one outcome of reading the book.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I hope you don't mind me coming to the thread late and still slightly derailing with thoughts about flirting. 

My initial reaction was that of Enchantment's. There is nothing more alluring than knowing I have his undivided focus, that he is there with me and demonstrates this in a respectful manner - that is completely flattering and sexy unto itself. 

He came home from his new job looking HOT in his suit and I asked how many times he'd been hit on. Well, this was not received how I intended. He initially viewed my comment as insecure rather than playful admiration. I had to quickly add that I know what a catch he is and how FINE he was looking. Then I got his smile.

I think there would need to be serious apathy if flirting was needed to give a wake-up call.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Actually, I would have no problem if my wife said that to me. I playfully do that to my her all the time. I will ask "Did anybody hit on you?" She will say, "NO!!!", but not because she is offended by me asking, only because she does not know how HOT she really is!! I am different from many guys I guess. My wife was at her sister's a couple of years ago and a friend of theirs said, "Your sister is hot." I LOVED hearing about that!!! Its like I say to myself, "Ha, ha...you can't have her!!" (maybe I should start a thread like that)


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

I have read the book and I believe overall it is pure greatness. Since coming to TAM I have realized my sex life is way above average from others who have so much difficulty, husbands and wives alike. In 20 years there have been times I've wanted it more and in other times she wanted it more. We are basically in sync at the moment.

My successes using the book:
-Responding to fitness tests. Have to admit, never thought of them that way until coming to TAM, reading MEM/Deejo/Conrad/BBWolf). MMSL and TAM taught me to say no or convert to humor. Getting better.
-Understanding the rationalization hamster and preventing it
-Fixing things around the house. Case in point, my wife was greatly turned on a few weeks back as she pulled up from shopping with me in the yard hacking away at a tree stump with a large ax. She wanted the "large ax" that night!
-Asking her for anything a lot less, just take it. If continued prodding yields no result for whatever reason, no problem. Move on.
-"Ready for some below average sex tonight baby?" enough said
-Captain/First Mate, my wife thrives on this. She realizes she is not the best at making decisions. Wants and needs my input and final say
-Rough sex/spanking. What can I say, she loves it, wants it, needs it, craves it. For 15 years didn't know that. Her recent reply to a sext message exchange "I don't like gentle". We have no safe word, none....
-Sex rank. Masterfully written. I use it to think about failed relationships. Sex rank is always there. We are both 6-7's right now, both trying to get it higher.

Now, on the "flirting" part of the book I can agree and disagree. Me openly flirting with other women does nothing for my wife. I'm not rewarded for it. It does make her angry, cold shoulder. Now that's when I start it.... On the other hand, when a group of women have come up to me for my attention and I give them that attention, this sparks a positive reaction. She quickly "protects" the relationship.

But the book teaches why flirting can work if initiated by the man, all based on sex rank. I get the cold shoulder b/c our ranks are the same, pretty simple actually.

I am ready to read the book again!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think the flirting advise is pretty valuable and grossly misunderstood. Athol basically says to keep your flirting with other women very basic and light. So, if you smile at other women and maybe do some playful teasing with women you converse with, that's enough. All you want is to arouse the Preselection Effect in your wife.

I'm sure even Athol would admit that walking into a dance club with your wife and grinding your crotch up against some random woman will be counterproductive. I'm just not sure why people think he's advocating that.

The only times I've seen him excusing, or perhaps advocating, more open flirting is the case where one spouse isn't meeting the other's needs, he/she has been told repeatedly with no change in behavior, he/she has been warned about the possibility of ending the relationship with no change in behavior, and it's finally come down to proving that you really can move on and attract another partner. But that's a fairly special case.

For most husbands out there, I think smiling at and teasing other women will work out quite nicely with their wives.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> For most husbands out there, I think smiling at and teasing other women will work out quite nicely with their wives.


I haven't read the book - and although I'm not a man, knowing there are Sci-Fi references, it has sparked interest for me. 

If it works for some, then great. Personally it works out nicely when my husband is smiling at and teasing ME and is seemingly oblivious to other women *shrug* but maybe that's just me.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

romantic_guy said:


> Actually, I would have no problem id my wife said that to me. I playfully do that to my her all the time. I will ask "Did anybody hit on you?" She will say, "NO!!!", but not because she is offended by me asking, only because she does not know how HOT she really is!! I am different from many guys I guess. My wife was at her sister's a couple of years ago and a friend of theirs said, "Your sister is hot." I LOVED hearing about that!!! Its like I say to myself, "Ha, ha...you can't have her!!" (maybe I should start a thread like that)


My husband and me is alot like you, it is all in fun. We are very open & very bantering & joking and yeah, even when good friends are around - we outright say what we are thinking many times, never any offense -ever.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> I haven't read the book - and although I'm not a man, knowing there are Sci-Fi references, it has sparked interest for me.
> 
> If it works for some, then great. Personally it works out nicely when my husband is smiling at and teasing ME and is seemingly oblivious to other women *shrug* but maybe that's just me.


The reasoning behind the tactic is the Preselection Effect. The Preselection Effect means that women are attracted to men who other women are also attracted to. This isn't a conscious choice that women make. It's just hard wired into their DNA.

So, if you're at a party with your husband and you look across the room to see him engaged with another woman, or two, in some lighthearted banter, your attraction to him bumps up a notch. Your husband is in demand by other women, but you're the one who has him. When your husband is not in demand, you can still be attracted to him for other reasons. But, the Preselection Effect won't be present to bump your attraction up another notch.

As you say, this might not play for you. I won't suggest that the Preselection Effect works for every single woman on Earth. However, for most women, it works. Therefore, most men will benefit from utilizing it.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I read MMSL because it makes me hot. I'm not kidding.

My husband is the perfect mix between alpha and beta. I lurve it when hubby grabs my computer or book and pulls me into the bedroom.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

PHTlump said:


> The reasoning behind the tactic is the Preselection Effect. The Preselection Effect means that women are attracted to men who other women are also attracted to. This isn't a conscious choice that women make. It's just hard wired into their DNA.
> 
> So, if you're at a party with your husband and you look across the room to see him engaged with another woman, or two, in some lighthearted banter, your attraction to him bumps up a notch. Your husband is in demand by other women, but you're the one who has him. When your husband is not in demand, you can still be attracted to him for other reasons. But, the Preselection Effect won't be present to bump your attraction up another notch.
> 
> As you say, this might not play for you. I won't suggest that the Preselection Effect works for every single woman on Earth. However, for most women, it works. Therefore, most men will benefit from utilizing it.


I so agree with all of this! This is reality, for the majority of women, even if we don't realize it. 

My husband has always been Mr. Introverted, not outgoingly social, he lets people approach him generally.....he needed more of THIS!! 

I remember when he worked in a supermarket, some female customer tried to give him jelly & her phone #, he told her "I don't think my fiance would like that". And she bolted out of the store. When he came home telling me this , I liked that !! I also knew a friend of a friend had the hots for him,everybody knew, and I guess she used to go on to others about wanting to see him naken in his red apron, I got the biggest charge out of that! When I hear my friends say they would like to clone my husband , I eat that up - just knowing I have the prize. 

Sure these things RAISE the bar a little. I think the quieter guys will benefit the most from this behavior cause they generlly don't engage as much with other women in a friendly manner, they are off sitting in a back corner or something -in comparison to the more alpha social butterflies. 


The other day (before I even read this) my son comes to me & says "Mom, what do I do, a senior wants my girlfriend?"....one of the things I told him to do is always be friendly with other women ---not flirting but as described here ...the "*lighthearted banter*"...oh yes! I told him the more other girls want him, the more valued he will appear. Doesn't mean he is -but it simply works this way for the majority.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

For 18 or so years I was the total gentleman. I waited about a year for intercourse because at 25, she was still a virgin. That should have told me something back then. I made her dinner all the time, helped with dishes, gave her massages, Helped to clean the house. Even before we moved in together I on occasion help to pay some of her bills because she was a little behind. At that time I wasn't getting any pu$$y. I was a chump. 

FINALLY after 18 years, I took charge and have been pushing the envelope for sex and it has worked. We have more sex in the last year than the previous 18 years combined. SOMETIMES I it feels like I an attacking her, but she hardly ever says NO! I know that she is not really there. I know it is NOT ME.

I talk about how other women flirt with me all the time. Something really changed in me a year ago. I am more confident and attractive to other women. I am not WHIPPED anymore.* I am becoming a MAN! *Some lady "friends" even give me little gifts. When I talk about other women, She gets a little jealous and at the same time she is beginning to initiate sex more often. I am at the point that I don't need her anymore. If she were to leave, I would be just fine!


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## DoRight (Dec 10, 2011)

Best message in MMSL is for men to stand up for what they want. If a man wants sex, ask for it. In the context of marriage anyway. 

Most men are completely in favor of equal opportunity. What most men have been told by society is to be equal in the marriage. MMSL's assertion is that men should lead in the marriage. 

Be a leader. Know what you want, ask for it, and don't apologize for wanting it. 

Remember, being a leader does not mean being an *******. A leader realizes that a major part of leadership is helping others get what they need to have a good life as well. 

Everyone, men and women appreciate a good leader.

The book has added a lot of value to my marriage.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I would agree except for the "ask" part. I have started taking full control sexually, and she has responded wonderfully! I don't ask, I assume we are having sex and let her say no if she can't, but even then she often says, "Here is my warm pu$$y. I don't need an orgasm tonight, but you go ahead and have some fun." Today I said, "I want to wait until tonight and I want to rock your world with my tongue." That is exactly what happened!!


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