# Former SIL



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

So, a couple of weeks ago, XH was over to walk the dogs (like he does every few weeks). Like usual, we made small talk about work and our families. His sister has been super unhealthy for years (many mental disorders, morbidly obese, and she was diagnosed with PLS a couple of years ago). So, when XH was over last, he mentioned that his sister had a secret meeting with her doctors at the facility she lived in, to talk about doctor-assisted suicide. Their next meeting was with the family the following week. Last week, the approval was passed for her to be assisted with ending her life, and Thursday, she passed away. 

I'm not overly sad for her; she lived a very sad life and is in a much better place now. I'm sad for my XH (her brother) and their mom (their dad commited suicide many years ago). I can't even imagine what they're going through. And I'm shocked beyond belief that this was approved. It's my understanding that in order to have something like this go through, you need to have the meetings and be approved while you're still in your right frame of mind so that you understand 100% what you're doing, and the consequences. She wasn't in her right mind, not even close.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

This is the slippery slope everybody who promoted assisted suicide denies existing.

Prayers for peace and comfort for all family members afflicted.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

How very sad for them to have had 2 suicides in their family. It's a horrible thing to cope with as I know only too well. 
As had been said, it's a very slippery slope. Basically the one assisting is helping to kill them. It's hard to know why she didn't just take a load of tablets alone, but either way it's horrible for those left behind.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> How very sad for them to have had 2 suicides in their family. It's a horrible thing to cope with as I know only too well.
> As had been said, it's a very slippery slope. Basically the one assisting is helping to kill them. *It's hard to know why she didn't just take a load of tablets alone, but either way it's horrible for those left behind.*


This is kind of what I'm thinking happened, TBH. I wouldn't think that doctor-assisted suicide would be approved in a couple of weeks, with someone who wasn't mentally sound. She didn't even understand what Covid was and why her family couldn't visit her where she lived (because they were locked down due to Covid).

And yes, either way, it's horrible.


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Oh wow. That is so so sad. I am very sorry that you are dealing with this tricky situation. I do not have any advice as to how to navigate this event.

You XH needs therapy right away. This seems to be hereditary.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> It's hard to know why she didn't just take a load of tablets alone, but either way it's horrible for those left behind.


I don't think you realize how hard it is to actually die that way. The stats vary, but most are that *90-96%* of people who attempt suicide do not succeed. Men are more likely to succeed. Why? Because they are more likely to use a gun. 

It's not as simple as swallowing a bottle of pills. 



Ursula said:


> This is kind of what I'm thinking happened, TBH. I wouldn't think that doctor-assisted suicide would be approved in a couple of weeks, with someone who wasn't mentally sound. She didn't even understand what Covid was and why her family couldn't visit her where she lived (because they were locked down due to Covid).
> 
> And yes, either way, it's horrible.


If she was in a home and so unwell, I doubt she would have had access to enough meds to do it herself. Staff also should have noticed her unconscious and would have stepped in.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobert said:


> I don't think you realize how hard it is to actually die that way. The stats vary, but most are that *90-96%* of people who attempt suicide do not succeed. Men are more likely to succeed. Why? Because they are more likely to use a gun.
> 
> It's not as simple as swallowing a bottle of pills.
> 
> ...


I think I do. I have had 2 family members(one v close) and a friend kill themselves. One took tablets. Most who really mean to do it make sure they do and often use a fail safe method or make very sure they won't be found in time.
A lot of attempts are a cry for help.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I think I do. I have had 2 family members(one v close) and a friend kill themselves. One took tablets. Most who really mean to do it make sure they do and often use a fail safe method or make very sure they won't be found in time.


So your _experiences_ trump facts? You know ONE person who succeeded in using pills, and that means anyone who wants to do it, can? 

25-50% of people who succeed had previous attempts. They attempted, failed, tried again, and many succeed the next time. Yet "they didn't _really_ want to die"?


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

bobert said:


> So your _experiences_ trump facts? You know ONE person who succeeded in using pills, and that means anyone who wants to do it, can?
> 
> 25-50% of people who succeed had previous attempts. They attempted, failed, tried again, and many succeed the next time. Yet "they didn't _really_ want to die"?


I don't think that's what @Diana7 is trying to say at all. She's simply sharing her experiences, and those experiences should not be diminished because they don't agree with your facts. Those experiences still happened, and were painful to go through.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

bobert said:


> I don't think you realize how hard it is to actually die that way. The stats vary, but most are that *90-96%* of people who attempt suicide do not succeed. Men are more likely to succeed. Why? Because they are more likely to use a gun.
> 
> It's not as simple as swallowing a bottle of pills.
> 
> If she was in a home and so unwell, I doubt she would have had access to enough meds to do it herself. Staff also should have noticed her unconscious and would have stepped in.


Here's a link for you @bobert, as I'm unsure where you got your stats from, so I hit up Google: Suicide Statistics and Facts – SAVE

I agree with what you say about my former SIL not having access to medicate herself to death. However, that seems a little more plausible to me than having a doctor assist her with it, given her mental state. I've known her for almost 20 years, and in that time, there may have been a couple years at the beginning where she was more stable. Other than that, she's always been varying degrees of unstable. Certainly not stable enough to make an informed decision to end her own life. It boggles my mind, and I feel like there's way more to the story than what is being said. Just trying to wrap my head around this really sad situation.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I know the stats very well. I've heard and read then time and time again at several psych hospitals. The link proved my point though.

Either situation is very odd. Either the process was rushed and it doesn't sound like it should have been approved, or the care home failed and is covering it up... Unfortunately, if your XH and is family are eating it up then the truth will never come out.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm so sorry Ursula, that is so very sad


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

what country is this all in? I am pretty sure it would be illegal to do this in the USA.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ursula said:


> I don't think that's what @Diana7 is trying to say at all. She's simply sharing her experiences, and those experiences should not be diminished because they don't agree with your facts. Those experiences still happened, and were painful to go through.


Thank you Ursula. Taking pills is often the way people use, especially women. There are ways that anyone can use to guarantee death such as hanging, shooting(rarely in the UK) or jumping from a great height, but the first and last take such guts to do. People who are mentally ill often have many tablets around and it's a much more peaceful way to go. It could be if your ex husbands sister was in some sort of care facility they just gave her medication daily so she couldn't do it herself. Plus there would be people around all the time who would presumably notice.
Either way it's incredibly painful for those left behind. Her mum especially must be devastated to loose a child that way.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> what country is this all in? I am pretty sure it would be illegal to do this in the USA.


It's in Canada. I actually just googled, and here's what it told me:

"Canada's law on assisted dying *does not allow advance directives*, nor does it allow it for minors or people who are suffering from a mental illness." 
(I don't know what the bolded means)

And then this for Alberta specifically:
"Medical assistance in dying (MAID) *became legal on June 17, 2016*. Since that time, 775 people have chosen MAID in Alberta. Edmonton saw the largest number of patients with 283, slightly above Calgary's 279. MAID is *a healthcare option available to Albertans at the end of life*. It allows a capable adult suffering from a grievous and irremediable medical condition to voluntarily request medicine that will bring about their death."


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Thankfully it's still illegal here. 
The important words there are 'capable adult' .Who decides on a person's capability? Was your former SIL capable of making such a decision I wonder?


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Thankfully it's still illegal here.
> The important words there are 'capable adult' .Who decides on a person's capability? Was your former SIL capable of making such a decision I wonder?


yeah, wait until biden changes THAT law to spend less on medicare


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> yeah, wait until biden changes THAT law to spend less on medicare


I am in the UK. People are fighting for and against it. I am against because what has happened in other countries is that its got more and more lax and its like a slippery slope.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Thank you Ursula. Taking pills is often the way people use, especially women. There are ways that anyone can use to guarantee death such as hanging, shooting(rarely in the UK) or jumping from a great height, but the first and last take such guts to do. People who are mentally ill often have many tablets around and it's a much more peaceful way to go. It could be if your ex husbands sister was in some sort of care facility they just gave her medication daily so she couldn't do it herself. Plus there would be people around all the time who would presumably notice.
> Either way it's incredibly painful for those left behind. Her mum especially must be devastated to loose a child that way.


Anytime, Diana, I like your posts and think that you're a kind-hearted person. I also dig bobert, and usually like what he has to say, but not this time. To blatantly disregard someone's thoughts/feelings/experiences around something as sensitive as the death of a loved one is just mean and callous.

And, from what I've read, I understand that taking pills is often a preferred way, especially for women. I also understand that if there's a will there's a way, and that people who are set on taking their life will make sure that it happens. As to my former SIL, while she was very mentally unwell, she was also monitored where she lived, so I'd assume she wouldn't have access to any kind of medication other than what the doctors/nurses gave her. I also did a little looking into things, and apparently, medically aided death is something that's been legal where I live since 2016. I also feel badly for my former MIL; she must be beside herself with grief.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ursula said:


> Anytime, Diana, I like your posts and think that you're a kind-hearted person. I also dig bobert, and usually like what he has to say, but not this time. To blatantly disregard someone's thoughts/feelings/experiences around something as sensitive as the death of a loved one is just mean and callous.
> 
> And, from what I've read, I understand that taking pills is often a preferred way, especially for women. I also understand that if there's a will there's a way, and that people who are set on taking their life will make sure that it happens. As to my former SIL, while she was very mentally unwell, she was also monitored where she lived, so I'd assume she wouldn't have access to any kind of medication other than what the doctors/nurses gave her. I also did a little looking into things, and apparently, medically aided death is something that's been legal where I live since 2016. I also feel badly for my former MIL; she must be beside herself with grief.


Loosing a child to suicide must be the worst, its bad enough loosing a parent that way. A friend of mine lost her daughter to suicide, she too had mental issues. So sad. 

Dont worry about me and Bobert, he doesnt like me for whatever reason but I have a very thick skin and don't let it get to me.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> yeah, wait until biden changes THAT law to spend less on medicare


Yes, wait until Biden changes the law in Canada.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Thankfully it's still illegal here.
> The important words there are 'capable adult' .Who decides on a person's capability? *Was your former SIL capable of making such a decision I wonder?*


She was not, unfortunately, so someone else would've had to have made that decision for her. She didn't even have a full understanding of Covid, and couldn't grasp why her family couldn't come visit her for a time.


----------



## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

It's called Death with Dignity and is legal in 11 states. There are rigorous steps patients must go thru. My friend's Mom did this many years ago in Oregon. It was the most humane way for her to die and I believe it should be legal everywhere. There's a documentary on this, I just can't remember where I saw it.

But I don't believe you can make this choice for anyone but yourself. Sorry for your loss.


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

My husband suffers from cluster headaches AKA "suicide headaches." Every year we hear about a few people that have kill themselves because they couldn't deal with excruciating pain anymore.

Maybe we, my husband and I, have gotten desensitized to the idea of dying, we understand if someone is tired of living in pain. It's the ones left behind who feel horrible, the person who has died is finally free of pain and suffering.

I'm sorry you've lost your former sil. I'm guessing her PLS diagnosis made her mental health issues even worse? ALS, PLS, MS are absolutely devastating. Do you know how she made the decision? Did she ever mentioned to end her life before the PLS diagnosis?


----------



## gold5932 (Jun 10, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband suffers from cluster headaches AKA "suicide headaches." Every year we hear about a few people that have kill themselves because they couldn't deal with excruciating pain anymore.
> 
> Maybe we, my husband and I, have gotten desensitized to the idea of dying, we understand if someone is tired of living in pain. It's the ones left behind who feel horrible, the person who has died is finally free of pain and suffering.
> 
> I'm sorry you've lost your former sil. I'm guessing her PLS diagnosis made her mental health issues even worse? ALS, PLS, MS are absolutely devastating. Do you know how she made the decision? Did she ever mentioned to end her life before the PLS diagnosis?


Has your husband been muscle tested for allergies? My daughter used to be put down 2 times a week with those headaches. We found a dr that did muscle testing. She's allergic to ham and high fructose corn syrup. She hasn't had a headache in 12 years.


----------

