# 5 years married and tired of the abuse....im so sad.



## cinnabomb

I dont know what to do. ive known my wife and loved her so deeply for more than 10 years and married for more than 5. but a few years back she bagan working in hollywood as an agent and at first she would come home crying everyday because of the way the other executive men treated her, demeaning her etc. she vowed to never be like them. over time, she began to toughen up and then began treating me like that. i never did anything to deserve it. her business partner is the most toxic person ive ever met and sometimes i feel like she loves him. she talks to him more than me. she shares things with him that she doesnt even tell me. and then the way they talk to each other is awful. they talk so rudely, snapping and treating each other like garbage. she is very impressionable so she has become like him and now does that to me too for no reason. 

im a good faithful husband who works full time, manages our home and properties, buys all the groceries and home supplies, cooks all the meals, cleans the house, plans all our social events and dinners, etc, takes care of mail and bills and cars, and literally everything else under the sun. the ONLY thing she does is her job. nothing else. i dont even dare ask her for a glass of water because she snaps at me or might give it very rudely or snap and say "ok later im busy." she is always busy. always on her laptop or phone. i get it. she has done well for herself at her job but a lot in part because i took on so much of everything else to let her spread her wings and fly. on top of all that, we dont have any intimacy either. i beg her to come sit with me on the couch and hug or cuddle and she wont, or she might for 5 seconds and then leave. it breaks my heart how bad i hurt inside. 

but up until recently ive been able to just deal with it all. but lately the abuse has gotten worse and we now have our first baby which has made things 100x worse. as a mother, she does more of the heavy lifting with the baby, and im not in denial about that. but i gladly do anythign asked of me. changing diapers, dream feedings, etc. i even personally did over 100 interviews to find cheap nanny help and mantain and hired and pay those people. all to help her. 

but its like she is becoming bi-polar. i dont mean that as a metaphor. i think she might actually be becoming like that. sometimes she is nice and smiling and then for no reason she goes off on me. she blames me when anything is wrong and snaps at me for no reason. i have never raised my voice at her in 10+ years and still never do, even in an argument. i try my best to see her side of things. i always apologize first because she will never apologize otherwise. in 10 years she has never apologized first without me begging her to. im just so tired of the insincere behavior and cruelty from her. i want so bad to fix this but i feel like im the only one trying or who even cares. i honestly believe that if i left her, she wouldnt even care. imagine what that must make someone feel like when they love someone else so deeply. 

even now im crying as i write this because my heart is breaking and im so sad. i dont know what to do i really dont. im just so sad and hurt and feel broken by how she treats me. im not suicidal, but sometimes i feel like maybe life would be easier if i wasnt around. i already feel invisible at home. imagine begging your wife to just hug you. just HUG. and she wont. and i do all these things for her. i knoew its not all her fault. i know its her job that made her like this. but i dont know how to make her see it. ive tried to talk to her about it many times and she loses her mind and screams so our neighbors can hear and just turns it around on me. 

what do i do? please help....i dont want to end things. we have a child. we have so many memories. i want her to quit her job so bad but she wont because she runs the company now. but i honestly think thats the only thing that will save our marriage.


----------



## Mr The Other

I am assuming that you have "sat her down and tell her...."

That done, it strikes me that you need to toughen up for two reasons.
1) For your own good. You are vulnerable to her and you see yourself as vulnerable. That means you are easily hurt. If you are going to get on with your life, acknowledge that you are sad but get on with your life and learn how to to hang your feelings and emotions on her actions. I am aware this is not straight forward.
2) She is now used to dealing with some hard-ass people. In comparison, you are looking softer and softer. By staying the same, you are essentially changing in her eyes. What was being sensitive to her feelings now looks like being a *****.

Who decided you need a hug? You might like a hug, but you built it up into a need. I am sorry, this is tough advice.

Stop apologizing first. Apologise if you are in the wrong, tell her straight if she is in the wrong. See her side of things, but remember your own side - otherwise, you are no longer an individual, just a puppet. Do not beg for an apology, you only beg for something you need. 

An apology would be good from her, mainly if it reflects that she can see she was in the wrong. What worth is an apology because you need an apology, it will be insincere. You might like an apology, you do not need one. Deep inside, you decided you are a needy and vulnerable, it feels real to you but it is just a daft decision you made.


----------



## cinnabomb

Mr The Other said:


> I am assuming that you have "sat her down and tell her...."
> 
> That done, it strikes me that you need to toughen up for two reasons.
> 1) For your own good. You are vulnerable to her and you see yourself as vulnerable. That means you are easily hurt. If you are going to get on with your life, acknowledge that you are sad but get on with your life and learn how to to hang your feelings and emotions on her actions. I am aware this is not straight forward.
> 2) She is now used to dealing with some hard-ass people. In comparison, you are looking softer and softer. By staying the same, you are essentially changing in her eyes. What was being sensitive to her feelings now looks like being a *****.
> 
> Who decided you need a hug? You might like a hug, but you built it up into a need. I am sorry, this is tough advice.
> 
> Stop apologizing first. Apologise if you are in the wrong, tell her straight if she is in the wrong. See her side of things, but remember your own side - otherwise, you are no longer an individual, just a puppet. Do not beg for an apology, you only beg for something you need.
> 
> An apology would be good from her, mainly if it reflects that she can see she was in the wrong. What worth is an apology because you need an apology, it will be insincere. You might like an apology, you do not need one. Deep inside, you decided you are a needy and vulnerable, it feels real to you but it is just a daft decision you made.


so you are saying that rather than us work on issues and improve our relationship, that i should just become numb? this is honestly crap advice. how is this going to help us? how will this improve our relationship? we both walk around and abuse each other but are numb to it? thats your idea of a good relationship?? people need hugs because regular non-sociopath humans require affection to release oxytocin to make them feel normal and human and interact with other humans in a non-psychotic way.


----------



## EleGirl

I'd like some more info before commenting, if you don't mind?

How old is your baby? 

How much did your wife's attitude and behavior change during and after her pregnancy?

What percentage of your joint income does your wife earn?

How many hours a week to each of you work?


----------



## NewLife2017

What you have to ask yourself is this. "Are you ok with the way you are being treated and the way your daughter will be treated eventually?" It seems you have lost your self-worth. If you can't fight for yourself, you should fight for your child. She is emotionally abusing you and the only way to get it to stop is if you make it stop. That means telling her to STOP, get into MC or start planning for a divorce. You're asking advice to repair a relationship that is toxic. You can only work on the relationship if she is willing.


----------



## synthetic

Read this short book in the next 24 hours before you even think or say one more word:

http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## Mr The Other

chunderbunder said:


> so you are saying that rather than us work on issues and improve our relationship, that i should just become numb? this is honestly crap advice. how is this going to help us? how will this improve our relationship? we both walk around and abuse each other but are numb to it? thats your idea of a good relationship?? people need hugs because regular non-sociopath humans require affection to release oxytocin to make them feel normal and human and interact with other humans in a non-psychotic way.


I am suggesting that moping around and feeling sorry for yourself, while perfectly understandable and reasonable, is not helping.

If I wass recommending numbness then there would be no reason to act. Clearly I am not recommending that because (and this is signficant) that is very clearly not what I wrote.

What happened is that I wrote advice that was not the advice you wanted. You then decided you were hurt and a victim. Then you decided I must have written something unreasonable and be a meanie. 

Having a heart is a good thing. Identifying yourself as a needy victim is not. These two things are very different.


----------



## cinnabomb

synthetic said:


> Read this short book in the next 24 hours before you even think or say one more word:
> 
> http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


OK i read it. now what? you want me to be a **** to my wife of 5 years?? do you know how miserable that would make our household? she genuinely has an anger management problem. if i provoke her, it will make things 100x worse than they already are. at least right now many days are ok and bearable. its just the bad ones that are awful. but its getting worse and she is full of so much anger and hate and i dont know why. im a good father and good husband. i always handle my responsibilities. its this hollywood industry that ruined her. she was never like this before she started working with this one ******* hollywood agent. hes an immoral bipolar psycho and hes molding her to be like him. i think she thinks it makes her cool and powerful to talk rudely to people and demean them now. she cant even have an argument without yelling at the top of her lungs, even though im talking in a normal tone, and asking her to talk softer. she still cant control herself. she has so much anger and loses all control of herself. sure maybe im at fault for being "too nice" but this isnt one sided. if i change to a "not nice guy" thats not going to help alleviate her anger and hate and change the way she communicates and interacts with me. it will make things worse.


----------



## cinnabomb

EleGirl said:


> I'd like some more info before commenting, if you don't mind?
> 
> How old is your baby? 6 Months
> 
> How much did your wife's attitude and behavior change during and after her pregnancy? see my last post. it changed more when she became a hollywood agent. her business partner is a psycho and molded her to be like him. they talk 20 times a day even after work. and they way they talk to each other is so awful and toxic it makes me cringe. she used to be so sweet and now she is becoming this bipolar angry hateful person who even makes fun of the people she works with behind their back. calling them cruel names. she was never like this she was so sweet. pregnancy definitely made things even ahrder because now she has resentment that she does most of the work with the baby and constantly reminds me. i try as hard as i can to do what i can, but a father can never replace a mother. she still breastfeeds, etc.
> 
> What percentage of your joint income does your wife earn? i make 6 figures. she makes double me.
> 
> How many hours a week to each of you work?


 me probably 30-40 of my day job but i write and do other things in my offtime. she works more than me, maybe another 10 hours per week or so.


----------



## cinnabomb

Mr The Other said:


> I am suggesting that moping around and feeling sorry for yourself, while perfectly understandable and reasonable, is not helping.
> 
> If I wass recommending numbness then there would be no reason to act. Clearly I am not recommending that because (and this is signficant) that is very clearly not what I wrote.
> 
> What happened is that I wrote advice that was not the advice you wanted. You then decided you were hurt and a victim. Then you decided I must have written something unreasonable and be a meanie.
> 
> Having a heart is a good thing. Identifying yourself as a needy victim is not. These two things are very different.


i havent played myself as a victim at all and dont believe i AM one. im simply explaining whats happened to you. you sound like a guy who deep down hates women.


----------



## cinnabomb

OK i read it. now what? you want me to be a **** to my wife of 5 years?? do you know how miserable that would make our household? she genuinely has an anger management problem. if i provoke her, it will make things 100x worse than they already are. at least right now many days are ok and bearable. its just the bad ones that are awful. but its getting worse and she is full of so much anger and hate and i dont know why. im a good father and good husband. i always handle my responsibilities. its this hollywood industry that ruined her. she was never like this before she started working with this one ******* hollywood agent. hes an immoral bipolar psycho and hes molding her to be like him. i think she thinks it makes her cool and powerful to talk rudely to people and demean them now. she cant even have an argument without yelling at the top of her lungs, even though im talking in a normal tone, and asking her to talk softer. she still cant control herself. she has so much anger and loses all control of herself. sure maybe im at fault for being "too nice" but this isnt one sided. if i change to a "not nice guy" thats not going to help alleviate her anger and hate and change the way she communicates and interacts with me. it will make things worse.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

If you had your choice, which would you pick?

1. Stay the same in this relationship, no changes.

2. Stay different in this relationship, effective changes.

Or

3. Leave.


----------



## synthetic

chunderbunder said:


> OK i read it. now what? you want me to be a **** to my wife of 5 years?? do you know how miserable that would make our household? she genuinely has an anger management problem. if i provoke her, it will make things 100x worse than they already are. at least right now many days are ok and bearable. its just the bad ones that are awful. but its getting worse and she is full of so much anger and hate and i dont know why. im a good father and good husband. i always handle my responsibilities. its this hollywood industry that ruined her. she was never like this before she started working with this one ******* hollywood agent. hes an immoral bipolar psycho and hes molding her to be like him. i think she thinks it makes her cool and powerful to talk rudely to people and demean them now. she cant even have an argument without yelling at the top of her lungs, even though im talking in a normal tone, and asking her to talk softer. she still cant control herself. she has so much anger and loses all control of herself. sure maybe im at fault for being "too nice" but this isnt one sided. if i change to a "not nice guy" thats not going to help alleviate her anger and hate and change the way she communicates and interacts with me. it will make things worse.


You're being terrible to yourself and those who are trying to help you.

Listen mate; in the long run, you're going to arrive at the same conclusions that people are already giving you. That much is guaranteed. 

I understand your fear, uncertainty and shock. I've been in your shoes. Many people here have. Don't think of your situation as "unique" or "special". It's not. It's actually pretty straight forward compared to many other cases.

And please stop blaming Hollywood for your wife's issues. She's a selfish angry person with a somewhat disordered personality. No one here hates women. They're just trying to help you understand that your wife is not being a 'wife'. You can't make her be one either. So what do you do?

You make yourself the #1 priority in your life. That's how survival works. You're trying to survive a sh1tty situation. As long as your wife or your marriage are prioritized above your personal well being, you'll be going in this rotten circle over and over. It's totally up to you when you want to stop that crazy cycle. My suggestion: Do it now.

You are a codependent person. Codependency is an addiction that MUST be overcome. Read up on codependency and see what a miserable addict you have let yourself become. It's time to fix yourself and heal.

Get yourself ready for divorce, because this is where your marriage is headed in the long run. There's enough wisdom here to guide you through these hard times. Make sure you use it because there really is no better alternative to the kind of support you can anonymously and freely get here.

If you have truly read the book I recommended, it's time for you to read this and understand it. You're not alone:

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html


----------



## Mr The Other

chunderbunder said:


> i havent played myself as a victim at all and dont believe i AM one. im simply explaining whats happened to you. you sound like a guy who deep down hates women.


Good man for reading the book. A hard marriage exposes every neurosis and people in good marriages often never have to face up to their own to the same extent. You can easily read all about my history on here, it was a tough journey with no real happy ending. My wife was very different though.

I have reread my posts to you and I can see how it was to you reading it.

When you feel pain, it is not because you love them, it is because you are emotionally vulnerable to them. There are two ways of not being vulnerable, one is numbness, the other is to accept that people will sometimes try to hurt you out of anger. What I recommend to you is the second, but it means giving up the idea of being vulnerable and that can be mistaken for being numb.

If you are being treated badly and you have a job, the simple question is why you do not leave. This is not as easy as it might seem, you may first argue that you love her, but the relationship does not seem to be helping either of you. You are suffering and she is not benefitting.

I suspect the answer is that you cannot bear to let her go. That is perfectly normal and I am not flippant about relationships. This is, I would hope, the biggest thing in your life. However, if you are not prepared to give it up, you are not in a position to make the big changes in your relationship. Being ready to walk away can often be what saves a relationship.

At the moment, and I am only going on accepting what you tell me, it is the industry she is in. IF that is the case, the best thing for her would be to leave that industry. If you leave and will not take her back until she leaves, you might lose her for good or get the old her back. If you can never bear to leave, then you can never give her that clear choice and cannot save her from herself.

Good luck, we are on your side. Frankly, we are almost all here because we were not doing well at some point.


----------



## Zouz

chunderbunder ,

I think your wife needs positive and negative shocks to get her back to reality .


-Try to make her feel that she needs you ,like who will drop her if her card doesn't start or if she lost her keys ? 

-take good care of yourself : change styles ....

-What would her reaction be if when successfull to get her in bed yet you don't get an erection ? ( fake it for one time )
-will she try to help ?

-and you need a vacation ,


----------



## Mr The Other

Zouz said:


> chunderbunder ,
> 
> I think your wife needs positive and negative shocks to get her back to reality .
> 
> 
> -Try to make her feel that she needs you ,like who will drop her if her card doesn't start or if she lost her keys ?
> 
> -take good care of yourself : change styles ....
> 
> -What would her reaction be if when successfull to get her in bed yet you don't get an erection ? ( fake it for one time )
> -will she try to help ?
> 
> -and you need a vacation ,


Excuse me, I am not an expert, the the erection loss seems a very high risk strategy. This man needs his confidence more than ever.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

And he is someone who does not prefer to use his relational abilities as a weapon.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

OP, how would you feel saying...

"Wife, I love you, but my heart can no longer take the yelling and intense anger. When you choose to discuss issues in that manner I will be choosing to not discuss them until you can choose different. By different I mean calm, respectful, loving."


----------



## 3Xnocharm

She seems to have made it pretty clear that she doesnt give a damn about you. You cannot fix this by yourself, especially when the one who is toxic will have nothing to do with it. Do yourself and your kid a favor and divorce her.


----------



## 6301

Look. You have to ask yourself if you deserve better. As soon as she started treating you like crap and you let her then it's your fault. Yours and yours alone.

I understand that when someone is in a bad mood they can snap at you but sooner or later they snap out of it and apologize for their behavior, but with her, what started out as a bad day for her has now become to using you as her whipping boy and your letting her do it. It's now a habit with her and some habits are harder to break then others but they all have a starting point and you have to stop being the whipping boy and let her know that her attitude stinks along with her behavior and she better make some changes in her ways or you will do it for her.

All in all, you don't need to be treated in that manner but your letting her and your the only one who can do anything about it. So either open your mouth, express your displeasure and let her know that she checks her big mouth and bad attitude at the door or don't come home. Say it like you mean it and do it in a way that she knows she pushed you as far as she could and she now treading on a slippery slope. 

It's up to you. Live lie your living now or make the changes.


----------



## turnera

chunderbunder said:


> so you are saying that rather than us work on issues and improve our relationship, that i should just become numb? this is honestly crap advice. how is this going to help us? how will this improve our relationship? we both walk around and abuse each other but are numb to it? thats your idea of a good relationship?? people need hugs because regular non-sociopath humans require affection to release oxytocin to make them feel normal and human and interact with other humans in a non-psychotic way.


She treats you that way because you accept it. 

Read No More Mr Nice Guy. Then read Married Man Sex Life Primer. It will explain everything.


----------



## cinnabomb

Blossom Leigh said:


> OP, how would you feel saying...
> 
> "Wife, I love you, but my heart can no longer take the yelling and intense anger. When you choose to discuss issues in that manner I will be choosing to not discuss them until you can choose different. By different I mean calm, respectful, loving."


Have tried. No MATTER what I say or how I say it, in her mind I'm 100% always at fault and I started it. She justifies her behavior 100% of the time by blaming me. In 10 years she has never apologized first after an argument. What does that tell you? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone because no one knows this side of her except maybe some of her employees know her temper. But we have had 10 years and a baby together. I can't leave. I even adore her family. We have too much history and too much to lose. Can you imagine if I left? She would tell everyone that I was depressed and had mental issues or something and they would all believe her! No one knows this side of her. her family puts her on a pedestal because she makes tons of money and hangs with celebrities. Even her own parents never tell her what to do because I think they know she had a temper when she was younger but they dont have a clue what it has become. I'm so lost. I appreciate your words but I can't explain how hard it is. There is no reasoning with her at all. If I try calm, reasoning, and constructive conversation, I get hostility and anger and blame. I sit and get degraded and yelled at and live in fear of the even bigger eruption and if I EVER stand up for myself and slightly raise my voice or whatever, she blows her lid x100 and slams the door and ignores me for days until I apologize. There is NO winning or outlasting her because she is truly delusional and emotionless in those circumstances. That part of the brain that tells you that maybe you were wrong does not exist with her anymore. I think its a legitimate mental disorder. But she would never accept that. As for faking no erection can you imagine? She already thinks I'm at fault for everything. She would use that to convince herself I'm too depressed or pathetic to do that too. Even when we rarely have sex she doesnt make noise. Like a robot. One time I asked her why she was so quiet and she just blew up at me again. Ive tried to call therapists but dont know how this would work. We saw one lady and it actually made everything worse. She was awful though she even complained about her husband twice in our session. It was very one sided. Honestlh what can you do to save this?? She truly is in denial. I would give anything and pay anything for a doctor to help her and tell her she needs some help. But I feel like even doctors dont help. Plus she is a master of manipulation and being insincere and fake charming, which is why people who dont know her well like her and would never believe me about all this. I'm scared. I'm hurt. I'm lonely. I'm sad. I'm lost.


----------



## cinnabomb

I want to add that the thing is, she simply doesnt CARE. doesnt care to improve things, care to have a date night with me, care that I cry, care that I'm hurt, care to discuss things, or genuinely care about me. She has a baby now who brings her all her joy. I'm invisible. If I say anything like do you think you could spend some time with me, the instant answer I get is CANT YOU SEE IM BUSY WITH THE BABY JEEZ WHAT THE HECK YOU'RE SO SELFISH etc. Meanwhile we have a full time nanny but she still won't even sit with me and cuddle or watch a show. 

To everyone who keeps saying to firmly tell her to stop yelling and snapping at me, etc, you guys have to understand that she can't be "broken" by being hostile. It fuels her rage x1000 and makes everything so much worse. She will yell so loud our neighbors will hear and then ignore me for a week and still never apologize. How does that help me in any way?


----------



## cinnabomb

Zouz said:


> chunderbunder ,
> 
> I think your wife needs positive and negative shocks to get her back to reality .
> 
> 
> -Try to make her feel that she needs you ,like who will drop her if her card doesn't start or if she lost her keys ?
> 
> -take good care of yourself : change styles ....
> 
> -What would her reaction be if when successfull to get her in bed yet you don't get an erection ? ( fake it for one time )
> -will she try to help ?
> 
> -and you need a vacation ,


She doesnt need me anymore because she makes a ton of money and has multiple assistants do her bidding. She came from humble roots and was always down to earth and now has become elitist and even arrogant at times. It breaks my heart in half. She was really sweet in the early years, even despite some issues. But I dont recognize her anymore. She is so cold and callus, so businesslike and aggressive. On top of that she makes poor choices and mistakes all the time despite me trying to help prevent them, and even after she never aewma to connect that I was right and she shouldnt have beat me down when I offered advice. If I don't cook her healthy dinners she would literally eat chips and carbs and sweets for every meal and end up with diabetes and health issues like her parents. So I cook....to try and keep her healthy. Yes she will say thanks for dinner but nothing else. She expects it and takes my effort for granted. I cry everyday and pray everyday for an answer. Ive always believed deeply in god but dont know why god is putting me through this. I'm one of the good ones. I never lie or steal. I'm faithful. I care about all humans. I'd give my entire fortune to fix this.


----------



## cinnabomb

Sorry for all the messages but one last thing. I looked into those books. How in the world can you be alpha with someone with a hair trigger temper who is HUGHLY defensive and hostile??? If I were to say, can you make me breakfast, I would get pure attitude and hostility in return. I think this all changed when she became the boss at work. She can't be bothered anymore with tending to anyone but herself and the baby. Like how dare you ask me to do something?? One time she yelled I'm not your assistant when I asked if she could use her connections to help publish my children's novel (which she didn't do). Anyways I can't imagine being aggressive like that because she would get furious.


----------



## aine

chunderbunder said:


> Sorry for all the messages but one last thing. I looked into those books. How in the world can you be alpha with someone with a hair trigger temper who is HUGHLY defensive and hostile??? If I were to say, can you make me breakfast, I would get pure attitude and hostility in return. I think this all changed when she became the boss at work. She can't be bothered anymore with tending to anyone but herself and the baby. Like how dare you ask me to do something?? One time she yelled I'm not your assistant when I asked if she could use her connections to help publish my children's novel (which she didn't do). Anyways I can't imagine being aggressive like that because she would get furious.


Chunderbunder, it is what it is, you have allowed your wife to beat you down, we are treated by others the way we allow them to treat us. Your wife is an emotional abuser and you are a victim yes, but not one who cannot do something. Read all you can on emotional abuse of men. I know this is very difficult because you have put up with this for so long but you have a few choices:

1. wallow in self pity and continue to be beaten down
2. decide you have enough of her and start taking action by 

(a) recording her episodes and keep a record of dates, journalling as much as possible 
(b) do the 180 on her big time, emotionally detach (you have to man up to do the 180) you are doing this either to get her to see the error of her ways or to prepare yourself to be a stronger you for when you leave her
3. Get yourself into individual counselling immediately, for yourself, not her. Remember you can only change yourself and how you handle your life not her.
4. Leave her when you are ready, you don't rely on her financially, get a lawyer and divorce papers

Emotional abusers rarely change and need professional help. She is on a high with her job, money and power. You are her stress buster in all the wrong ways. This is not a good environment for your daughter as she gets older either as she will not be taught how to treat a man lovingly or respectfully, do you want that for her? Take action now.

There is so much on the internet about emotional abuse of men, arm yourself with knowledge and the support available and go for it.


----------



## turnera

So you LOOKED INTO the books without reading them. Then you're getting what you deserve. 

They are a way out of this. They will change your outlook on what she does and what you can do. She treats you like that because you allow it. The books will teach you how to STOP allowing it.

And she doesn't need to go to therapy - YOU do. By yourself. To learn how to man up.


----------



## Orange_Pekoe

chunderbunder said:


> I dont know what to do. ive known my wife and loved her so deeply for more than 10 years and married for more than 5. but a few years back she bagan working in hollywood as an agent and at first she would come home crying everyday because of the way the other executive men treated her, demeaning her etc. she vowed to never be like them. over time, she began to toughen up and then began treating me like that. i never did anything to deserve it. her business partner is the most toxic person ive ever met and sometimes i feel like she loves him. she talks to him more than me. she shares things with him that she doesnt even tell me. and then the way they talk to each other is awful. they talk so rudely, snapping and treating each other like garbage. she is very impressionable so she has become like him and now does that to me too for no reason.
> 
> im a good faithful husband who works full time, manages our home and properties, buys all the groceries and home supplies, cooks all the meals, cleans the house, plans all our social events and dinners, etc, takes care of mail and bills and cars, and literally everything else under the sun. the ONLY thing she does is her job. nothing else. i dont even dare ask her for a glass of water because she snaps at me or might give it very rudely or snap and say "ok later im busy." she is always busy. always on her laptop or phone. i get it. she has done well for herself at her job but a lot in part because i took on so much of everything else to let her spread her wings and fly. on top of all that, we dont have any intimacy either. i beg her to come sit with me on the couch and hug or cuddle and she wont, or she might for 5 seconds and then leave. it breaks my heart how bad i hurt inside.
> 
> but up until recently ive been able to just deal with it all. but lately the abuse has gotten worse and we now have our first baby which has made things 100x worse. as a mother, she does more of the heavy lifting with the baby, and im not in denial about that. but i gladly do anythign asked of me. changing diapers, dream feedings, etc. i even personally did over 100 interviews to find cheap nanny help and mantain and hired and pay those people. all to help her.
> 
> but its like she is becoming bi-polar. i dont mean that as a metaphor. i think she might actually be becoming like that. sometimes she is nice and smiling and then for no reason she goes off on me. she blames me when anything is wrong and snaps at me for no reason. i have never raised my voice at her in 10+ years and still never do, even in an argument. i try my best to see her side of things. i always apologize first because she will never apologize otherwise. in 10 years she has never apologized first without me begging her to. im just so tired of the insincere behavior and cruelty from her. i want so bad to fix this but i feel like im the only one trying or who even cares. i honestly believe that if i left her, she wouldnt even care. imagine what that must make someone feel like when they love someone else so deeply.
> 
> even now im crying as i write this because my heart is breaking and im so sad. i dont know what to do i really dont. im just so sad and hurt and feel broken by how she treats me. im not suicidal, but sometimes i feel like maybe life would be easier if i wasnt around. i already feel invisible at home. imagine begging your wife to just hug you. just HUG. and she wont. and i do all these things for her. i knoew its not all her fault. i know its her job that made her like this. but i dont know how to make her see it. ive tried to talk to her about it many times and she loses her mind and screams so our neighbors can hear and just turns it around on me.
> 
> what do i do? please help....i dont want to end things. we have a child. we have so many memories. i want her to quit her job so bad but she wont because she runs the company now. but i honestly think thats the only thing that will save our marriage.




I feel so sad that you are going through this.

From what you described, you ARE a good husband. You do a lot of work around the house and I wish my husband cooked anc cleaned and took as much responsibility as you do.

Her behaviour doesn't sound normal at all, perhaps you're on to something when you talk about possible bi-polar disorder. This is not a healthy environment for you or your child! In fact it sounds intensely toxic. She should not scream when you want to communicate problems. My husband did that and I eventually got tired of it and left.

I know you love her - but love has conditions. You are supposed to be SAFE with her. Not in constant fear. It is emotional and verbal abuse, don't make yourself a doormat. You are a loving, caring person who deserves to be loved and cared for as well. Don't become a martyr.


----------



## Orange_Pekoe

Mr The Other said:


> Who decided you need a hug? You might like a hug, but you built it up into a need. I am sorry, this is tough advice.


When your spouse asks you for a hug, you give them a damned hug. HUG them. It is not a survival "need" (like water, air, shelter, food), but when it comes to a successful marriage, asking for a hug better result in a hug.


----------



## tom67

chunderbunder said:


> Sorry for all the messages but one last thing. I looked into those books. How in the world can you be alpha with someone with a hair trigger temper who is HUGHLY defensive and hostile??? If I were to say, can you make me breakfast, I would get pure attitude and hostility in return. I think this all changed when she became the boss at work. She can't be bothered anymore with tending to anyone but herself and the baby. Like how dare you ask me to do something?? One time she yelled I'm not your assistant when I asked if she could use her connections to help publish my children's novel (which she didn't do). Anyways I can't imagine being aggressive like that because she would get furious.


Sad...
Who keeps on putting up with it YOU.
Carry a var on you when dealing with her.
If you don't respect yourself who will?
File for d and serve her at work heck since she makes so much you might just get some alimony but this is on you now for doing nothing and not standing up for yourself.
Get some ic NOW!


----------



## synthetic

You must be so proud of yourself for having turned into such a weak pu$$y in front of your kid.

Man the f*** up dude. What the hell is wrong with you? Who taught you to be scared of a woman's rage? Your mother? Your father? Blast the b1tch aside and file for divorce + full custody + alimony + child support. Turn her world upside down and don't even back down an inch. Destroy her vision about you. Shatter it into pieces by showing her what you're really capable of. Show her how disposable she can be and how much you can financially and emotionally hurt her. 

You're worried about what she might tell people?! What the f***? You're dying man. Who gives a crap what people think? 

I used to be just like you. I learned! Looking back, I laugh at what I put up with. I actually get a bit angry too. Why did I?! Why do you?! I know why now, but you don't. Learn and grow.

Your wife is a disordered woman. She most likely suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder. I won't bother giving you links because you're being simply naive.

I told you this 6 months ago: Your marriage will NOT last. You know that. Take the upper hand now and divorce on your terms before things escalate and she files for divorce after sends you to jail on bogus domestic violence charges. It has happened to many men like you. Don't be one of them. *You will lose your kid if you just sit on your ass and do nothing

*


----------



## DoneWithHurting

chunderbunder,

I work in the industry with lots of agents. One of my relatives is a big hollywood screenplay writer with major credits.
Take what I have to say seriously.
Your wife is out of control and probably up to her eyeballs in an affair with this guy or someone else in the industry.
While it is true the indusrty is cut throat, most successful players are NICE TO EVERYBODY.
They HAVE TO be.
They may play hardball, but egos what they are in the biz an agent has to be SWEET. 

Its time to man up, get your balls in your own hands and tell your dear wifey to cut her sh-t or get out. PERIOD.

I am speaking from experience. She needs to treat YOU with respect.
If not, show her the door with divorce papers.

I am not kidding nor speaking from ignorance.
I know what I am talking about.

MAN UP NOW! She is treating you like crap and you know it.

Slam that crap down hard immediatley. No nice talk, she doesn't respect it anymore. Its a sign of weakness. 
Either toughten up hard or bail. It wont get any better no matter how nice and understanding you are.
Its time for her to WIFE UP.
Cook and clean and help deal with your child.
And for G-d's sake... she must be affectionate to you and have sex with you when you want. Put down the phone & 'puter or they go out the door in the garbage.

This woman has changed for the worse. She has grown a pair of very big balls and you need to cut them off. Or get out.

Think I'm too harsh? Well.... I know. I am in the industry and deal with agents and actors and producers from commercials to movies to theater. Your wife is completely out of line. She should not be behaving like that at her job. 

If I were a betting man, I's say she and her agent friend are not very well liked nor respected nor sucessful in the industry. She needs to get away from him and work with a respected agent or leave the marriage.

That is unless you like being treated like a dog. Sorry... dogs deserve much better treatment. There are actually dog agents and they are the nicest people in the world.


----------



## Orange_Pekoe

chunderbunder said:


> Sorry for all the messages but one last thing. I looked into those books. How in the world can you be alpha with someone with a hair trigger temper who is HUGHLY defensive and hostile??? If I were to say, can you make me breakfast, I would get pure attitude and hostility in return. I think this all changed when she became the boss at work. She can't be bothered anymore with tending to anyone but herself and the baby. Like how dare you ask me to do something?? One time she yelled I'm not your assistant when I asked if she could use her connections to help publish my children's novel (which she didn't do). Anyways I can't imagine being aggressive like that because she would get furious.


You've gotten a lot of advice from the men. Take my advice, from a woman's point of view.

A woman needs 2 things from her husband, all the time.

1. Love. To be shown/told that she is loved.
2. To know that her husband is a man, a leader. To be shown that she can respect you. That doesn't mean you demanding respect, yelling at her, threatening her, or any hostile sort of things (in fact that will destroy her respect for you!). It means taking the charge for your family and showing her that you are worthy of respect, and that in itself will cause her to respect you.

What you are doing right now is destroying your self-respect. You don't respect yourself. How can she respect you? When you ask her to make you something for breakfast, she has an hostile outburst. You do all the housework. You have turned yourself in to a housewife and she has become the man. So in her eyes, she is the aggressive one and you are the submissive one. She expects YOU to respect HER and meanwhile she does not respect you.

She's your wife. I believe in couples sharing chores and cooking food etc. (it's a wonderful trait) but I shake my head at husbands who do ALL the chores and cook ALL the food. It should be a shared responsibility. 

Next time she has an outburst, you need to stand up for yourself. Tell her in a very calm and firm manner that her attitude and behaviour are unacceptable and you will no longer tolerate it, and that she will lose you if it continues.

You're willing to put up with it now. One day, you won't. And you'll look back and wish you had drawn boundaries earlier, when there was still a chance.


----------



## cinnabomb

"If I were a betting man, I's say she and her agent friend are not very well liked nor respected nor sucessful in the industry. She needs to get away from him and work with a respected agent or leave the marriage."

Actually, i dont know what her resputation is in the industry, but her business partners is not good. he is well known for being a slimebag and an ******* and ironically, she used to hate him but now shes become just like him and almost seems like she admires him. he taught her how to be underhanded and "slick" and now she is like that too and it sickens me. as for not being successful, however, they are very successful, which is part of the problem because i think she justifies all her actions like "i must be doing something right if we are doing well and making all this money."

I tried the "be distant thing for a couple months, and she barely noticed. she will almost never initiate a single conversation or physical contact with me unless I do. She could go a week without talking to me, with the exception of talking to me "through the baby" if you know what i mean. as in, holding the baby and saying "look, papa is making dinner". but sitting down next to me and saying how was your day, or how are you, or just a hug....non existent. 

As much as i love our little baby, i think she gets all the love she needs from the baby so she doesnt make a single effort with me. its very cold hearted. it was getting bad before the baby but never this bad before. the baby has changed everything and is probably 99% of the arguments we have nowadays, but with her there is no such thing as a normal argument. its me saying "honey that was hurtful" and her blowing her lid in response. screaming, making up lies, saying incredibly hurtful and untrue things (knowing how much i have done and continue to do for us), and then slamming the door, leaving, and ignoring me for a week until i apologize. its excruciating. 

I know you guys keep saying i let it happen but what am i to do? Its more bearable to just not talk to her, not give my opinions on how the baby should be raised, not ask anything from her or ask her to do anything, and no argue and be yelled at and ignored, than it would be if i stood up for myself, yelled back, had her go nuclear, and turn our world upside down. 

Guys, she makes more money than me, has tons of contacts and power in this town, and if we got into the "divorce battle" that you guys keep talking about and telling me to do, she wouldnt be the one destroyed. it would be me. people respect her because of her position and success, so naturally, they trust she is being honest. but she is completely off the walls delusional and self absorbed. its like the twighlight zone. 

i dont want to be alone and lose what little i have. im so tired of this. she demands me to do things in such a rude tone when all she needs to do is ask nicely and im always on standby for her. why is she like this? how do we fix it? i dont want to be angry and have a war and lose our years and experiences together. 

ALL i want is for her to go back to how she was, before this guy and this job. she was kind and sweet and playful and respectful, and though maybe not totally "wifely", we were still great together. a great team. now she doesnt even want to discuss decisions anymore, like when i said "honey can we make decisions about our baby together," she screams "i dont need to run things by you, im not your assistant. Ill do whatever i want." i would never say that to her. ever. i cant believe she said those words to me. how can someones personality go bad so fast and them not be aware???


----------



## SecondTime'Round

chunderbunder said:


> Guys, she makes more money than me, has tons of contacts and power in this town, and if we got into the "divorce battle" that you guys keep talking about and telling me to do, *she wouldnt be the one destroyed. it would be me.* people respect her because of her position and success, so naturally, they trust she is being honest. but she is completely off the walls delusional and self absorbed. its like the twighlight zone.


What do you consider "destroyed?" You already are.

Sounds like she'd have to pay child support and possibly alimony and you sound like a good dad so you'd be entitled to half of the custody.


----------



## cinnabomb

@orange pekoe, there is no calm way to tell her anything. I always talk camly. i dont have a temper. im a rational, self-aware, and kind person, and very generous. If I say "honey can you make dinner tomorrow", her answer would either be "i dont have time" or maybe she would send her assistant to pick something up. but actually putting love into MAKING dinner...forget it. 

And if I stand up for myself and calmly say "i wont put up with this..etc", her instant reaction is always pure rage and hostility and blaming me for it. the hardest part of ALL of this is that in her deep delusion, she geniunely believes that it was always my fault. can you imagine trying to reason with someone that is 100% incapable of feeling remorse, regret, or responsibilty for hurting someone? no matter what i say, she has an instant defense response, looking at me with hate and raising her voice and immedietely escalating everything x 100, instead of a normal conversation. 

the BOTTOM LINE, is that she has either brought to the surface, or somehow developed some kind of personality mental disorder. I did some research and some problems like "narcissistic personality disorder" almost hit the nail perfectly on the head. The issue is that people like that have ZERO awareness of their issues, so how can you ever get them to understand and change???

Please stop telling me to just divorce her. I appreciate immensely your life experiences and maybe you do see the end of this journey before i can, but remember that each and every relationship is different. for every one that needs to be cut off and seperated, there are ones that are great and are saved. i dont want to end this journey because the REAL person that she is and was, her whole life until this cancerous ******* came into her life, is wonderful, sweet, kind, shy, and humble. I know she is in there. I feel bad for her. She has developed a disorder and its not her fault. she is super impressionable and a sweet person who conforms to her surroundings and doesnt know she is doing it. that POS partner is ruining her. I have even thought of emailing him directly ,letting him know he is destroying our marriage, but I wasnt sure if I should do that, as it may cause even more issues. Its sort of like being with someone who is sick, but they are too far gone or weak to understand or know it. I dont want her to live her life like that. like an arrogant, cruel, egotistical person, because she wont ever experience true happiness and she will ruin our daughters life too. If i tried to divorce her i would lose my daughter. she has more money and power than me, and way more powerful attorneys and contacts. no one would believe me. no one. 

so my option that is left is to try and fix her. but how? Ive tried to research doctors who specialize in BPD and even called some, but how can I get her to see them when she would only do it under the pretense of couples counseling, and even then, how can I get THEM to see the real her??? She is good at acting nice and manipulating people into liking her.


----------



## cinnabomb

SecondTime'Round said:


> What do you consider "destroyed?" You already are.
> 
> Sounds like she'd have to pay child support and possibly alimony and you sound like a good dad so you'd be entitled to half of the custody.


I would say destroyed would be having an empty house. having my daughter live somewhere else. knowing that I can never again look at the over 50,000 photos of our amazing life experiences again. knowing that everything i did for so many years was all for nothing. knowing id have to start all over. knowing id be losing her family also, who i adore, and letting my own family down, who have always adored her. losing all my friends who are all dads and married to wifes who are her friends. having my daughter call out for "papa" and me not being there. it would break my heart.


----------



## toonaive

The problem is, you cannot fix her. Only yourself. Say, you put up with this for another 20 years? Then what? God forbid introduce another child into this relationship. Then what? How about after 20 more years of this, child(ren) are gone, she dumps you and leaves. Then what? Will you be worse off, or better off? Will you die a little everyday, only to be left as a shell of a man that nobody would want?


----------



## cinnabomb

toonaive said:


> The problem is, you cannot fix her. Only yourself. Say, you put up with this for another 20 years? Then what? God forbid introduce another child into this relationship. Then what? How about after 20 more years of this, child(ren) are gone, she dumps you and leaves. Then what? Will you be worse off, or better off? Will you die a little everyday, only to be left as a shell of a man that nobody would want?


Who do you insist that she cant be fixed? Psychologists successfully treat mental disorder every day. And she wasnt always like this, which means deep in there, is the real her. i dont believe that a personality shift that is this major cant be undone, after all, it was a change from her original persona. its money, power, and a horrible influence that has changed who she is, like so many celebrities and wealthy people before her. 

if we lost it all and lived on an island, she would eventually change back. im sure of it. when it was just me and her, young, unknowing of our futures, we were an amazing team. i wish i could go back in time and convince her to be a housewife, instead of making all this money. it ruined us.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

chunderbunder said:


> Who do you insist that she cant be fixed? Psychologists successfully treat mental disorder every day. And she wasnt always like this, which means deep in there, is the real her. i dont believe that a personality shift that is this major cant be undone, after all, it was a change from her original persona. its money, power, and a horrible influence that has changed who she is, like so many celebrities and wealthy people before her.
> 
> if we lost it all and lived on an island, she would eventually change back. im sure of it. when it was just me and her, young, unknowing of our futures, we were an amazing team. i wish i could go back in time and convince her to be a housewife, instead of making all this money. it ruined us.


But she has to want to be fixed. You can't fix her if she is unwilling. Actually YOU can't fix her even if she is willing. Only she can do that. You can just be there, encouraging her.

Is there any chance she's abusing drugs or alcohol?

You sound like such a sweet man. And you're obviously capable of expressing yourself well in writing. Have you considered writing her a letter about all of this and requesting she respond to you in person? Then perhaps schedule a counseling session and email the counselor the letter and her response prior to the session? Might sound a bit sneaky, but she/he might get a better idea of your issues. I frequently email my counselor before a session with what's been going on, what I'd like to discuss.....saves some time and also helps her prepare. She appreciates it. We don't email back and forth....I just email her.


----------



## toonaive

chunderbunder said:


> Who do you insist that she cant be fixed? Psychologists successfully treat mental disorder every day. And she wasnt always like this, which means deep in there, is the real her. i dont believe that a personality shift that is this major cant be undone, after all, it was a change from her original persona. its money, power, and a horrible influence that has changed who she is, like so many celebrities and wealthy people before her.
> 
> if we lost it all and lived on an island, she would eventually change back. im sure of it. when it was just me and her, young, unknowing of our futures, we were an amazing team. i wish i could go back in time and convince her to be a housewife, instead of making all this money. it ruined us.


She has to acknowledge a problem, and WANT to change. Without that, she will fight you every step of the way, and quite possibly get worse. If she truly is BPD, you are in for one hell of a ride.


----------



## cinnabomb

[/QUOTE] Is there any chance she's abusing drugs or alcohol?

You sound like such a sweet man. And you're obviously capable of expressing yourself well in writing. Have you considered writing her a letter about all of this and requesting she respond to you in person? Then perhaps schedule a counseling session and email the counselor the letter and her response prior to the session? Might sound a bit sneaky, but she/he might get a better idea of your issues. I frequently email my counselor before a session with what's been going on, what I'd like to discuss.....saves some time and also helps her prepare. She appreciates it. We don't email back and forth....I just email her.[/QUOTE]

No she doesnt even drink and def no drugs. i think her "drug" is her power, money, pseudo fame, and respect. she hangs out with and does biz with the biggest celebs in the business. 

thank you for saying that. sometimes i feel sad knowing that no one even knows the kindness ive shown her and the things ive done for her over the years. 

i reached out to a therapist and told him what is going on, and that we will come in as a couple, but he will also see us individually as well. she has agreed to it, but its such a hard topic to even bring up and even tougher to make the schedules work, but im trying....


----------



## cinnabomb

toonaive said:


> She has to acknowledge a problem, and WANT to change. Without that, she will fight you every step of the way, and quite possibly get worse. If she truly is BPD, you are in for one hell of a ride.


im hoping the therapist can shed some light on this and maybe help her see the error of her ways. im worried that the therapist isnt direct enough with her though. we saw a counselor once and it was a nightmare, because this lady was totally one sided, bitter lady, whoc even complained about her husband twice in our session. needless to say, after that session things at home got even worse. 

if I have to risk an even worse ride for the chance to save something that was once wonderful, then I will. i dont even know if im strong enough anymore, but i dont give up easily and refuse to walk away from something ive put blood sweat and (lots of) tears into. sigh.


----------



## cinnabomb

forgot to respond about the letter...interesting idea, but I fear that as usual she will just blame me for everything. als, the therapist needs to experience her rage firsthand but dont know how. should i record one of our arguments?


----------



## SecondTime'Round

chunderbunder said:


> forgot to respond about the letter...interesting idea, but I fear that as usual she will just blame me for everything. als, the therapist needs to experience her rage firsthand but dont know how. should i record one of our arguments?


YES! Get a VAR and do exactly that!

As far as therapists so, I have had some crappy ones and some great ones. Don't give up. Some really ARE good and completely neutral. I think it's a great sign you found one who will be willing to work with you together but also individually.


----------



## turnera

chunderbunder said:


> The issue is that people like that have ZERO awareness of their issues, so how can you ever get them to understand and change???
> 
> Please stop telling me to just divorce her.
> 
> I know she is in there. I feel bad for her. She has developed a disorder and its not her fault.
> 
> I have even thought of emailing him directly ,letting him know he is destroying our marriage, but I wasnt sure if I should do that, as it may cause even more issues.
> 
> so my option that is left is to try and fix her. but how?


This is so insane. You are SUCH a Nice Guy and you don't even see it. Writing her lover a letter? Are you crazy?

Take some of her money and hire a PI and GET PROOF of their affair. Then you tell her 'quit your affair or I'm divorcing you.' When she refuses - and she will - you calmly call up her parents and siblings, her best friend, her pastor, that she's cheating and you'd like their help to convince her to end the affair; that once the OM is out of the picture, if you two can't fix your problems you'll leave her be, but you want to see the truth of it without the OM brainwashing her. She'll be furious. Good. That means it matters to her and she'll FINALLY be paying attention to you. Ignore her anger. I know that's scary for a Nice Guy like you, but you WILL survive it.

And she will finally respect you.

You want her to want you again? Stop throwing yourself at her feet. Fix your career so you're earning more or at least are in more demand; women don't respect men who don't have decent careers. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy; I promise you, once you do, you'll come back and say 'they must have been watching me when they wrote this, this is my life!' Start exercising more so you look more appealing. Dress better. Hang out with your guy friends and make HER responsible for the kids for a change. Let her SEE you having a life without her.

THAT is how you get her to care again.


----------



## synthetic

> This is so insane.


I'm done with it for now.

He'll be back in much worse shape. Maybe he'll 'get it' then.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

chunderbunder said:


> "If I were a betting man, I's say she and her agent friend are not very well liked nor respected nor sucessful in the industry. She needs to get away from him and work with a respected agent or leave the marriage."
> 
> Actually, i dont know what her resputation is in the industry, but her business partners is not good. he is well known for being a slimebag and an ******* and ironically, she used to hate him but now shes become just like him and almost seems like she admires him. he taught her how to be underhanded and "slick" and now she is like that too and it sickens me. as for not being successful, however, they are very successful, which is part of the problem because i think she justifies all her actions like "i must be doing something right if we are doing well and making all this money."
> 
> I tried the "be distant thing for a couple months, and she barely noticed. she will almost never initiate a single conversation or physical contact with me unless I do. She could go a week without talking to me, with the exception of talking to me "through the baby" if you know what i mean. as in, holding the baby and saying "look, papa is making dinner". but sitting down next to me and saying how was your day, or how are you, or just a hug....non existent.
> 
> As much as i love our little baby, i think she gets all the love she needs from the baby so she doesnt make a single effort with me. its very cold hearted. it was getting bad before the baby but never this bad before. the baby has changed everything and is probably 99% of the arguments we have nowadays, but with her there is no such thing as a normal argument. its me saying "honey that was hurtful" and her blowing her lid in response. screaming, making up lies, saying incredibly hurtful and untrue things (knowing how much i have done and continue to do for us), and then slamming the door, leaving, and ignoring me for a week until i apologize. its excruciating.
> 
> I know you guys keep saying i let it happen but what am i to do? Its more bearable to just not talk to her, not give my opinions on how the baby should be raised, not ask anything from her or ask her to do anything, and no argue and be yelled at and ignored, than it would be if i stood up for myself, yelled back, had her go nuclear, and turn our world upside down.
> 
> Guys, she makes more money than me, has tons of contacts and power in this town, and if we got into the "divorce battle" that you guys keep talking about and telling me to do, she wouldnt be the one destroyed. it would be me. people respect her because of her position and success, so naturally, they trust she is being honest. but she is completely off the walls delusional and self absorbed. its like the twighlight zone.
> 
> i dont want to be alone and lose what little i have. im so tired of this. she demands me to do things in such a rude tone when all she needs to do is ask nicely and im always on standby for her. why is she like this? how do we fix it? i dont want to be angry and have a war and lose our years and experiences together.
> 
> ALL i want is for her to go back to how she was, before this guy and this job. she was kind and sweet and playful and respectful, and though maybe not totally "wifely", we were still great together. a great team. now she doesnt even want to discuss decisions anymore, like when i said "honey can we make decisions about our baby together," she screams "i dont need to run things by you, im not your assistant. Ill do whatever i want." i would never say that to her. ever. i cant believe she said those words to me. how can someones personality go bad so fast and them not be aware???


Something comes to mind that I feel fits here. 

She has developed an addiction. Not to drugs, alcohol. But to the adrenaline of what she is pursuing.

I believe you will find some of your answers in researching addiction behavior and how to not enable an addiction. 

View her as an addict. This is your key to this.

Find resources that help those who love addicts. Counselors (for you), books (there are some in my link below, especially Codependency No More), Al-Anon, Narc-Anon, ACOA Adult Children of Alcoholics

This is where you will find the solutions you are looking for. 

I had to view my H as an addict to anger.

I followed the advice on how to handle an addict.

and for us it worked.

It may not affect a thing, but I feel it is your best bet for answers whether you stay or not.

ETA: The most loving thing I ever did was choosing not to leave my H in the state of mind he was in. He was restored to us.


----------



## statuscomforts

I am sorry that you are so sad. That's really all I have to say. I know that's not super helpful but I know what it feels like to just want somebody you love to love you back and they don't, not in the way you'd like anyways. Especially because you were once in a good place. I hope no matter what happens, things turn out good for you.


----------



## cinnabomb

statuscomforts said:


> I am sorry that you are so sad. That's really all I have to say. I know that's not super helpful but I know what it feels like to just want somebody you love to love you back and they don't, not in the way you'd like anyways. Especially because you were once in a good place. I hope no matter what happens, things turn out good for you.


i appreciate this sentiment nevertheless. we started therapy but it hasnt gone that well because she is very charming and has manipulated the therapist into liking her. he has no clue about her other side, aside from what i tell her and somehow I am made out to be the bad guy because she was crying, almost right on cue, in the session. keep in mind she hasnt cried once in 5 years at home and has become really cold. sigh this is so hard. people keep telling me not to be so nice and dependable and available to her but i dont know how. i dont have single friends. i dont want to hang out at a bar. i want to be home with her (the old her).


----------



## turnera

If she cries again in the next session, just say what you said here: "Wife, you haven't cried once in five years. How is it that you can cry on cue here? Trying to make an impression?"

You know, just in case the MC doesn't catch it.


----------



## cinnabomb

turnera said:


> If she cries again in the next session, just say what you said here: "Wife, you haven't cried once in five years. How is it that you can cry on cue here? Trying to make an impression?"
> 
> You know, just in case the MC doesn't catch it.


the counselour is already on her side. he was completely sold on her crying in there. im not saying all the tears are fake. i genuinely think my wife wants to make this work, but the reality is that she wants ME to conform completely to HER and doesnt want to do the hard changes herself. 

im starting to think maybe i should be in the counselor forum....what do you think?


----------



## GusPolinski

chunderbunder said:


> the counselour is already on her side. he was completely sold on her crying in there. im not saying all the tears are fake. i genuinely think my wife wants to make this work, but the reality is that she wants ME to conform completely to HER and doesnt want to do the hard changes herself.
> 
> im starting to think maybe i should be in the counselor forum....what do you think?


Having just browsed through your thread, if you're looking to have it moved, I'd recommend moving it from the "Considering Divorce or Separation" forum to the "Going Through Divorce or Separation" forum.

Seriously, you're a doormat and your wife is terrible.


----------



## Lostinthought61

record her at home. video or audio and the next time bring it to the counselor...then just press play.


----------



## GusPolinski

Xenote said:


> record her at home. video or audio and the next time bring it to the counselor...then just press play.


It's worth noting that Commiefornia is an "all-party consent" state.


----------



## turnera

chunderbunder said:


> the counselour is already on her side. he was completely sold on her crying in there. im not saying all the tears are fake. i genuinely think my wife wants to make this work, but the reality is that she wants ME to conform completely to HER and doesnt want to do the hard changes herself.
> 
> im starting to think maybe i should be in the counselor forum....what do you think?


I think you're being a doormat in counseling just like in real life. Every time she whips out the tears in MC, just whip out a FACT about what she's done, which refutes the tears. "Oh, you're crying? Funny, that's not what was happening two nights ago when you told me you thought it was funny that I was hurting, that you intend to hurt me as much as you can."

If you can't stand up to her in MC, how do you expect to do it in real life?

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


----------



## turnera

GusPolinski said:


> It's worth noting that Commiefornia is an "all-party consent" state.


*shrug*

Then just have a full house of cameras installed and inform her that the house is now being 100% monitored and filmed - 'for safety.'

And THEN take it to the MC.


----------



## GusPolinski

To be clear, I don't necessarily disagree w/ recording her. Given what I've read thus far, though, it seems like things could get awfully litigious should OP go that route.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

chunderbunder said:


> if we lost it all and lived on an island, she would eventually change back. im sure of it.


You are way deep in denial.

She will NEVER go back to the way she was, she is forever changed and you just don't want to accept that. You are still living in the past and think she'll just snap out of it one day. That's not going to happen, she is who she is now. You can't fix this and you continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. The advice you have been given is sound. As they say, you can lead a horse to water...

What are you getting out of this marriage? Its not going to get better and it will end in divorce no matter what you do. Will it be on her terms or yours? Right now you are just a babysitter for her but one day she will get tired of your whining and replace you with an actually babysitter and a man that's not afraid of her. You created this monster by turning into a doormat. Women do not want to be married to "yes men" or men they feel are beneath them. 

You are your own worse enemy, you have to fix yourself before you do anything. You are co-dependent so that's needs to be the first thing that you address.


----------



## 3Xnocharm




----------



## synthetic

chunderbunder said:


> i genuinely think my wife wants to make this work


How wonderful. What's the problem then?

Oh yeah I forgot (actually YOU forgot): she's a manipulative, disordered, abusive and overall sh1tty person.

You're only digging yourself a deeper hole. Keep doing it and you will regret every single 'extra' day you spent being married to this woman for the rest of your life. 

Not having a family or friends is not an excuse for what you're doing. In fact, every stranger passing you by on the street is a more friendly and compassionate candidate than your crappy wife. 

Get angry. Anger is your best friend. You need it.


----------



## cinnabomb

the issue now is that the therapist is COMPLETELY biased against me and he is now being overly critical of everything I say and not even allowing me to speak freely (saying im speaking critical and to start every sentence with a "soft start"), to the point where I cant even talk. i feel manipulated and duped and frustrated. it hurts me to see her being fake like that. i dont believe in lying and i refuse to play this game. being nice is a good thing but insincerity is awful. so i sit there in therapy basically emotionless because it hurts so much to see my wife lying and making her own spin on things in a way that didnt happen and then appease to the therapist with tears and appeasing and charming him. it is so uncomfortable for me to watch it that i shut down, further convincing my therapist that I am the problem, not her. literally everything is say he defends her for her, and when she says something hurtful or whatever, he looks at me and then tells me to change. 

i tried to write the therapist an email voicing my concern but it didnt help and it seems like he thinks suddenly im the bad guy, when it was me that found him to help us out and to help my wife see that she has all of this anger and behavior issues. even in session she says things that are totally inaccurate or misconstrued and i dont want to fight back and make up lies. i dont have the energy for this.

Guys....I dont want to get a divorce. You asked me what im getting from this marriage. These days, not a lot, but we have the most wonderful precious baby and I cant bear the thought of her asking for papa and Im not around. so much so that I might stick through a painful marriage just for our babys sake. I dont know what to do. I dont want to start over. we have 15 years of memories, tens of thousands of beautiful photos....i dont want to start over. but I cant live like this. i want this to work but im not sure how. i am reading "no more mr. nice guy" and its pretty eye opening. but i dont think that implementing that technique will work with the timing of the therapist because then she will tell the therapist the selfish things i did if i try the books recommendations. 

I feel like i made a mistake with this therapist. i called probably 20 and thought this guy was the one but he is totally on her side and she is SO impressionable that she takes everything he says almost as a license. i feel like we are in an even worse place now because he has given her license to do as she pleases and give very little back to me and i have to make all the changes. the only answer would be to find another therapist but at this stage i dont even know if she would go. we have seen this guy like 5 times already and she likes him a lot (obviously). 

please help....im so lost and in so much pain. so much pain that my blood pressure and sugar have shot up and lost clumps of hair.


----------



## GusPolinski

Find another counselor.


----------



## MEM2020

CB,

I might be able to help you. That said, I have some conditions and they are completely non negotiable. 

1. You are a very angry person right now. As such you have lashed out at many of the folks trying to help you. That's a total 'no go' with me. If you want my help, you WILL be polite and respectful. If you don't understand something I say, ask for a clarification. If you disagree, do so without being disagreeable. 

2. To make progress, you don't need to threaten divorce, however you need to be willing to accept her threats to divorce you. And she IS going to threaten to divorce you. She's a bully because you have rewarded that behavior for a long time. 

3. You need to start seeing a therapist by yourself - IC - individual counseling. You desperately need help. The most obvious sign of your need for help is the way that you catastrophize the idea of a divorce. You talk about being destroyed. This is a major sign of mental illness. 

4. You need to stop acting like a helpless victim. Stop it. 

If you fully accept these conditions I will attempt to help you. 

If not, I wish you luck. 





chunderbunder said:


> the issue now is that the therapist is COMPLETELY biased against me and he is now being overly critical of everything I say and not even allowing me to speak freely (saying im speaking critical and to start every sentence with a "soft start"), to the point where I cant even talk. i feel manipulated and duped and frustrated. it hurts me to see her being fake like that. i dont believe in lying and i refuse to play this game. being nice is a good thing but insincerity is awful. so i sit there in therapy basically emotionless because it hurts so much to see my wife lying and making her own spin on things in a way that didnt happen and then appease to the therapist with tears and appeasing and charming him. it is so uncomfortable for me to watch it that i shut down, further convincing my therapist that I am the problem, not her. literally everything is say he defends her for her, and when she says something hurtful or whatever, he looks at me and then tells me to change.
> 
> i tried to write the therapist an email voicing my concern but it didnt help and it seems like he thinks suddenly im the bad guy, when it was me that found him to help us out and to help my wife see that she has all of this anger and behavior issues. even in session she says things that are totally inaccurate or misconstrued and i dont want to fight back and make up lies. i dont have the energy for this.
> 
> Guys....I dont want to get a divorce. You asked me what im getting from this marriage. These days, not a lot, but we have the most wonderful precious baby and I cant bear the thought of her asking for papa and Im not around. so much so that I might stick through a painful marriage just for our babys sake. I dont know what to do. I dont want to start over. we have 15 years of memories, tens of thousands of beautiful photos....i dont want to start over. but I cant live like this. i want this to work but im not sure how. i am reading "no more mr. nice guy" and its pretty eye opening. but i dont think that implementing that technique will work with the timing of the therapist because then she will tell the therapist the selfish things i did if i try the books recommendations.
> 
> I feel like i made a mistake with this therapist. i called probably 20 and thought this guy was the one but he is totally on her side and she is SO impressionable that she takes everything he says almost as a license. i feel like we are in an even worse place now because he has given her license to do as she pleases and give very little back to me and i have to make all the changes. the only answer would be to find another therapist but at this stage i dont even know if she would go. we have seen this guy like 5 times already and she likes him a lot (obviously).
> 
> please help....im so lost and in so much pain. so much pain that my blood pressure and sugar have shot up and lost clumps of hair.


----------



## cinnabomb

GusPolinski said:


> Find another counselor.


i honestly am so worn out from all this. and the money we have spent....sigh, its hard to even think about. we have already seen 3 therapists. i feel like most of it a waste of ****ing time. sorry about the language im just so fed up. i dont know if i can start again from scratch with another therapist that i dont know a single thing about until 5 sessions in. it took me forever to find a guy that would work with us together and seperately, halfway between my wife and mine office, etc etc. I jsut cant do this all over again. 

my option #1 is to give up and things will get MUCH worse, because ive noticed that at the very least, her behavior is better overall BECAUSE she wants to please the therapist, so she tries harder now because she can then report back to the therapist that "i even helped him with dishes" or whatever it is. so if i give up things will go back to how they were. 

option #2 is to continue this path and hope for the best. she has moments that are kind. i dont want you to think its all bad. and i certainly take some blame in all this. but i feel like its really unfair what ive been through and that no one knows about it. and that even know with a therpist he says "well i dont see her being arrogant or rude" in our session. he has no idea what she is capable of. deep down i dont think she is a bad person, i really dont. she was brainwashed by this ******* partner and this hollywood industry. now i dont know if anything will ever make her realize how good she had it...how kind and loving and supportive i was and how i was ALWAYS reliable and there for her when she needed me. but what about my needs? ive been sexually frustrated for 10 years. ive been neglected and ignored and snapped at and demanded to do things in a rude tone. its not fair. 

sometimes i pray to god at night. god, why are you testing me like this? did i do something to deserve it? did i do something wrong? i miss her so much. the old her. i miss her so much. i wish i knew. i wish i knew.


----------



## GusPolinski

Option #3 - Divorce


----------



## cinnabomb

GusPolinski said:


> Option #3 - Divorce


as of now i said i dont really want this. im not ready for it. 

on a side note, is there any way to get the therapist to better understand my side? im not as charming as my wife so i dont know how to charm him, and today he says in session "im a feminist", which im not sure what that means but sounds sort of biased already. kind of unfair to me.


----------



## life_huppens

I just came across this post and somewhat can relate. I do not have a such extreme situation. Based on your description I would say that I am done taking abuse from my wife that would amounts to be perhaps 15% of what you have. 

Said that, I see that people here gave you very good advice on how to proceed. It is up to you to take it. Another thing, it will not get better with time. Now, if you think that she is manipulating therapist, answer me this question: WHY? Why does she doing it? Also, did you actually find out what is your wife want you to change about yourself? You are saying that D is not an option, then what do you think should be a solution to your problem? Do not tell us that she needs to change, as it is not going to happen, as it obvious from results of your MC sessions. I also believe changing therapist is not going to help. Are you going to fish around for therapist until one will take your side?

It boils down to this: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? What is your plan of attack? Are you formulating strategy?
Please do let us know.


----------



## turnera

chunderbunder said:


> on a side note, is there any way to get the therapist to better understand my side? im not as charming as my wife so i dont know how to charm him, and today he says in session "im a feminist", which im not sure what that means but sounds sort of biased already. kind of unfair to me.


IIWY, I would call your state's guiding organization over therapists and file a report on her. Make an appointment to meet with them via phone or in person, and inform them what he's done AND include that he said "I'm a feminist." Tell them that you are considering your options about what to do about this person who is railroading your marriage to the woman's side. Tell them that you don't want to 'win' or anything but you are tired of being told in every single session that you are a bad person and should be silent or whatever it is he's saying. Tell them that you want him to be investigated.

See what happens.

Either that or stop being a victim and start speaking your piece anyway.


----------



## GusPolinski

chunderbunder said:


> as of now i said i dont really want this. im not ready for it.
> 
> on a side note, is there any way to get the therapist to better understand my side? im not as charming as my wife so i dont know how to charm him, and today he says in session "im a feminist", which im not sure what that means but sounds sort of biased already. kind of unfair to me.


Geez. Your well-founded concerns regarding his wherewithal aside, the therapist isn't your problem. He may be a flake, a hack, and a pathetically gullible, pretentious d**chebag, but he's not your problem. _Your *wife* is your problem_, and her unwillingness to participate in the counseling sessions in a truthful and even-handed manner speaks VOLUMES in terms of her disrespect for you, your marriage, and your family.

But hey, since you're just not going to let it go, just straight up the guy that your wife is putting up a false front and selling him a false bill of goods. Additionally, refuse to participate or even attend additional counseling until he calls her out on her bullsh*t.

I mean... why waste your time and money on something that your wife won't even take seriously?!?

Then kindly suggest that the jackass incorporate some animal protein into his diet.

What a f*cking moron.


----------



## MEM2020

T,

I vehemently disagree with this advice. The OP is a guy who has acted like a total doormat for a long long time. He agreed to have a baby with a woman who by his account is massively abusive and agreed to that with full knowledge of what she is like. 

He is not good at taking ownership of his life and you are now encouraging him to blameshift to the therapist? 

Why? 





turnera said:


> IIWY, I would call your state's guiding organization over therapists and file a report on her. Make an appointment to meet with them via phone or in person, and inform them what he's done AND include that he said "I'm a feminist." Tell them that you are considering your options about what to do about this person who is railroading your marriage to the woman's side. Tell them that you don't want to 'win' or anything but you are tired of being told in every single session that you are a bad person and should be silent or whatever it is he's saying. Tell them that you want him to be investigated.
> 
> See what happens.
> 
> Either that or stop being a victim and start speaking your piece anyway.


----------



## MEM2020

Gus,

The therapist only sees what you show them. 




GusPolinski said:


> Geez. Your well-founded concerns regarding his wherewithal aside, the therapist isn't your problem. He may be a flake, a hack, and a pathetically gullible, pretentious d**chebag, but he's not your problem. _Your *wife* is your problem_, and her unwillingness to participate in the counseling sessions in a truthful and even-handed manner speaks VOLUMES in terms of her disrespect for you, your marriage, and your family.
> 
> But hey, since you're just not going to let it go, just straight up the guy that your wife is putting up a false front and selling him a false bill of goods. Additionally, refuse to participate or even attend additional counseling until he calls her out on her bullsh*t.
> 
> I mean... why waste your time and money on something that your wife won't even take seriously?!?
> 
> Then kindly suggest that the jackass incorporate some animal protein into his diet.
> 
> What a f*cking moron.


----------



## GusPolinski

MEM11363 said:


> Gus,
> 
> The therapist only sees what you show them.


I get that, hence my advice...



GusPolinski said:


> Geez. Your well-founded concerns regarding his wherewithal aside, *the therapist isn't your problem.* He may be a flake, a hack, and a pathetically gullible, pretentious d**chebag, but he's not your problem. *Your wife is your problem, and her unwillingness to participate in the counseling sessions in a truthful and even-handed manner speaks VOLUMES in terms of her disrespect for you, your marriage, and your family.*
> 
> *But hey, since you're just not going to let it go*, just straight up the guy that your wife is putting up a false front and selling him a false bill of goods. Additionally, refuse to participate or even attend additional counseling until he calls her out on her bullsh*t.
> 
> I mean... why waste your time and money on something that your wife won't even take seriously?!?
> 
> Then kindly suggest that the jackass incorporate some animal protein into his diet.
> 
> What a f*cking moron.


----------



## MEM2020

Gus,

Sorry - my reading comprehension temporarily turned off. 



GusPolinski said:


> I get that, hence my advice...


----------



## GusPolinski

MEM11363 said:


> Gus,
> 
> Sorry - my reading comprehension temporarily turned off.


No worries, sir. Tuesday is, after all, little more than Monday 2.0.


----------



## MEM2020

lMAO




GusPolinski said:


> No worries, sir. Tuesday is, after all, little more than Monday 2.0.


----------



## turnera

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> 
> I vehemently disagree with this advice. The OP is a guy who has acted like a total doormat for a long long time. He agreed to have a baby with a woman who by his account is massively abusive and agreed to that with full knowledge of what she is like.
> 
> He is not good at taking ownership of his life and you are now encouraging him to blameshift to the therapist?
> 
> Why?


Because when he calls the agency, they are going to hand him his cajones and tell him he's ridiculous. And he's going to hear it from professionals, even if they're just bureaucrats and maybe then he'll start questioning his version of what's going on.

You'll note I also told him he could stop being a victim and stand his ground.


----------



## MEM2020

T,

Ok - now this makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining. 

BTW: I'm not suggesting the therapist is good. It's just that I see a LOT of cases where a spouse wants the MC to be a virtual pair of balls. That isn't a fair position to put a therapist in. 





turnera said:


> Because when he calls the agency, they are going to hand him his cajones and tell him he's ridiculous. And he's going to hear it from professionals, even if they're just bureaucrats and maybe then he'll start questioning his version of what's going on.
> 
> You'll note I also told him he could stop being a victim and stand his ground.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Divorce


chunderbunder said:


> as of now i said i dont really want this. im not ready for it.


Then you will stay in limbo until you are. You are holding yourself back and sabotaging any chance at R by taking this off the table. You can't R while you are weak like this.



> on a side note, is there any way to get the therapist to better understand my side? im not as charming as my wife so i dont know how to charm him, and today he says in session "im a feminist", which im not sure what that means but sounds sort of biased already. kind of unfair to me.


Go to IC, not MC, this is pointless as all it does is give the illusion that she is "working on the marriage" without actually doing any real work or taking responsibility.

You are just going to continue to spin your wheels until you start taking the advice people are giving you. It seems the hardest part isn't getting the WS back but getting the BS to listen.


----------



## cinnabomb

hi guys a follow up. i hear what you are all saying. to be honest, i wouldnt say she hasnt made ANY improvements since starting counseling. that wouldnt be fair to say. she has made more of an effort to notice and acknowledge all that I do for us, and has made more of an effort to be a little more affectionate (little hug or hand touching, no sex in months though), and seemed to curb her temper a bit. there are still moments where she treats me like a servant or is demanding or her tone is rude or dismissive, and also can be very neglecting. 

YES I am a somewhat emotionally needy person. I dont deny it. I like love. i like being touched. I dont like being alone. thats a fact. Im trying to make an effort too, in terms of acknowledging her as well, because at this point, it doesnt hurt to just try. there are moments of hope. moments where things feel like they are on the right track. but then a single simple thing brings it all crashing to the ground in an instant. like her snapping at me for no good reason. i dont sit around doing nothing, playing videogames, etc. im literally constantly working, helping, cleaning, cooking, and trying to play with our child and help out where i can. i could understand being snapped at if i was drunk playin HALO. I think she doesnt even realize how she snaps at me because she is so used to talking like that in her hollywood world. 

also, there are some other things really bothering me. she has sort of become unhealthier in the last couple years too. we were always healthy, eating right, and exercising, and since she became the "boss" at her company, its as if she decided "i can now do what i want because my husband wont say ****. Im the boss now." So she has taken to eating unhealthier, and has also gained weight with a belly. its hard to see and not be able to say anything, and truth is, saying something wouldnt do a damn thing except make her furious and lash out, then neglect me, and then use it as ammo with our therapist to show him what a total **** I am to her. Which Im not. Im a caring and kind and honest and loyal person. But imagine having your needs unmet and being sexually frustrated for 5+ years. Its hard. 

So my question to you guys now, is WHAT do i do? lets forget about the D for a second. the consensus with you is that I need to fix myself somehow. the way i am? But how? Please be specific. I honestly am tired of this game of trying to win over the therapist. its stupid and i dont care. I care about me and her and us. i want to try something different. the two theories i keep hearing are:

1. be nicer. compliment her more. acknowledge her verbally. be playful. smile. and that will give "life" back into the relationship and she will then want to be in a better mood, more happy, playful, affectionate, sexual even. (I will admit I have seen some proof that she responds to this, but I will also admit that after all my hurt and pain, its hard for me to put myself out there like this. really hard. I think I fear that I will put myself out there and she will reject me or something).

2. Be a dik. I don't even know what this means really but people here seem to say that "not being a nice guy" will make her like me??? Please enlighten me. this doesn't make a lick of sense to me. please give me some specifics of things to do, things to say, etc. i don't wanna be an a$$ but I'm willing to try different methods to get what I want, which is a wife who cares, who helps, who appreciates, and genuinely is concerned about me and my life and my needs. also, maybe trumping all those, if I don't start getting regular sex im gonna lose my **** and end up ****ing a fire hydrant. How do i make her frisky?

thanks all...


----------



## synthetic

> So my question to you guys now, is WHAT do i do?


Divorce her

The rest of your post is completely irrelevant to the ultimate outcome.


----------



## GusPolinski

chunderbunder said:


> ...no sex in months though...


Well... none for YOU, anyway.


----------



## turnera

chunderbunder said:


> the two theories i keep hearing are:
> 
> 1. be nicer. compliment her more. acknowledge her verbally. be playful. smile. and that will give "life" back into the relationship and she will then want to be in a better mood, more happy, playful, affectionate, sexual even. (I will admit I have seen some proof that she responds to this, but I will also admit that after all my hurt and pain, its hard for me to put myself out there like this. really hard. I think I fear that I will put myself out there and she will reject me or something).
> 
> 2. Be a dik. I don't even know what this means really but people here seem to say that "*not being a nice guy" will make her like me*??? Please enlighten me.


How many times, how many ways, do we have to keep saying this over and over and over until you actually listen?

NOBODY here has told you to be nicer to her, to compliment her more, to smile more. Nobody. You must be getting that from another forum I won't mention for its stupidity.

And we ARE NOT SAYING that you have to be a ****. All you Nice Guys, you hear us stay stop being a Nice Guy, and the ONLY thing you can understand is it means we want you to turn into a chest-beating, hair-dragging Neanderthal who beats his women into submission.

NOT being a Nice Guy is NOTHING like that. 

To NOT be a Nice Guy means nothing more than to VALUE yourself as her equal and - when she treats you like crap - to NOT PUT UP WITH IT.

To look her in the eyes, get up, walk out of the room, and go do something else.

That's it! It means nothing about being mean or rude or a ****.

All it means is to NOT ALLOW her to do what you just described.

Is that so hard?

btw, HERE is what I recommend for you: Go to this website, click on the link for signing up for therapy with Dr. Glover, PAY for as many sessions as you can afford, and start letting him help you. He's even having a 'sale' - pay for two sessions, get one free:
http://www.drglover.com/

And you can take this assessment to see if it fits:
http://www.drglover.com/site/drglover/files/pdfs//nice-guy-quiz.pdf


----------



## JohnA

Have you read any other threads besides your own? You have not posted on anyone else's thread. I've noticed that when a poster does it does tend to indicate they beginning to reach a measure of resolution. 

I suggest you read @sixty-eight posts. Your wife seems to have a lot in common with her husband. In paticular look into the concept of grey rocking to use on your wife.


----------

