# Is it really over?



## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Huge immense story told short. November 28 was DD for me. Daughter of the OM a former pastor of ours informed me of her dad and my wife's close friendship she thought was an affair. Wife denied it at first and then admitted to it being and EA only, which turned out to be a lie. They met up in Vegas last year and spent two nights together. She chose to stay with me, but I found out in April the affair had only gone underground. Did not realize how close to divorcing me my wife was. I gave her my ring back and told her it was over. She begged me for another chance, and wrote the NC letter, and then promptly emailed the OM to tell him she loved him, her heart was breaking, and I made her write it. We have been in counseling the whole time. My wife suffered excruciating pain the last several years from degenerative discs in her back. Lots of pain killers, anti-depressants, pre-menopause, empty nest syndrome. Her perfect storm I suppose, but I make no excuses for her actions. For my part I have been an obsessed work-a-holic for years now, and a pretty negative distant husband at times. She now leaves the phone where I can see it, has given me access to her Facebook and email accounts, our sex life is slowing rekindling as much as she can after her spinal fusion in February. She tells me things I have not heard in years about how much she needs me, sends me songs at work and we chat during the day on FB and text. This guy, our former pastor, had his hooks in deep. Had my wife almost convinced to leave me to join him in our old home town, as if that was going to work out with no problems. That may seem a little scattered and I can fill in relevant details for any questions asked, but to get to the point, here is my question.

My wife is very good with computers, and knows at least in the past I am not. I have become quite adept at them over the last 6 months. I have seen many emails she thought were deleted, and many video's and pictures she thought the same about. But in the end, how do I know he's gone and will stay gone? I would contact his wife, but she is terminal with alzheimer's. Contacting his kids, even though they are in their 30's seems rash to me if it is over, but they have been lied to as well. I don't want revenge, except possibly to tell him of the other online affair my wife had going at the same time with an ex-boyfriend of hers (Skype sex, and sexting back and forth). My thought process is that it would terminate any romantic link he has for her. I just want my marriage back and him gone...forever.

It occurs to me that with all the lies and cover ups my wife has thrown at me that I may just be stuck in "discovery mode". I want that to be over, but how can I be sure? Ever?


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## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

You should expose the affair far and wide and all at once. Affairs only survive in secret. Step 2, no contact for life must be established. You may have to move to accomplish this. Step 3, total transparency with all passwords etc etc.

Keylogger on the computer. Spyware on the phone. GPS on the car. Voice activated recorder in her car.

Good luck! You can do this.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm sorry that you're here. She sounds like a serial cheater from what you have described. She might be able to cover her tracks since she's better with computer than you are. Schedule a polygraph for her to find out the truth.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Some details that might helps, he lives over 1200 miles away. So moving really doesn't seem needed. Will key loggers and spyware show up on her virus scans? I can't seem to get a definitive answer. I am really trying to be a Christian here and forgive. Our counselor in private has told me perhaps I should expose the affair details to his kids, but in the end she told me that it had many risks for and against. 

It hurts to realize the truth that my wife has lied to me all this time, and even after I found out. I hear the axiom used over and over "once a Cheater, always a cheater" but I really think through all my research my wife just got caught up in something attractive and secret and couldn't stop. She has always had many "guy" friends and what I term an "adiction" to online gaming and the internet in general. With the new smartphones (Nokia 900) how am I supposed to keep tabs on it all? In the end it's her choice, I just want to know so I can leave if it strikes up again. I am fully committed to saving my marriage, but not being taken for a ride again.

Thanks for the reply, I truly appreciate the advice.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Allow me to be blunt.

Why not divorce her? With her back problem, it only gets worse. If she didnt show any loyalty to you, why should you be weighted down by her? When you looked after her, you always see a cheating wife. And the burden of looking after a crippled cheating wife is heavy.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Not sure about serial, but I cannot rule it out. There are multitudes of affairs in her family, seems she grew up with that as her example. I am sure exposing the former pastor to the truth about her doings with the former boyfriend would grenade him, but it also might make him contact her. I should add that DD ver 2 was April 27, so things are still fresh and raw for me. She says it is over, and I know my wife is a good and giving person. I think she needed to be needed and the kids leaving the house, and me engrossed in work and night school left her without that feeling of being needed. The pastor was our friend, and he needed someone, and so the affair evolved.

I really want to believe her after 10 years of marriage. We are making plans to renew our vows this summer on our 10 year anniversary. But part of me looks at all the times she has lied right to me and I never knew, and tells me it may have just went deeper underground or it may be over. I'm so up and down from day to day it's unreal.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Link182 said:


> Some details that might helps, *he lives over 1200 miles away.* So moving really doesn't seem needed. Will key loggers and spyware show up on her virus scans? I can't seem to get a definitive answer. I am really trying to be a Christian here and forgive. Our counselor in private has told me *perhaps I should expose the affair details to his kids*, but in the end she told me that it had many risks for and against.



He lives 1200 miles away and they arranged a tryst in Vegas? There must be some deep history between them.


and I thought his daughter told you of the possible affair. So his kids already knew. You should update his daughter who had the decency to tell you.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Link182 said:


> I know my wife is a good and giving person.



Apparently too giving! She gave away something that was not hers to give.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

I reached the point of divorce in April when I discovered it was still going on. I have always taken my vows seriously and I am a man of faith. I have never so much as looked at another woman, much less allowed anything in our marriage to lead my wife to believe there was another woman. After many hours of discussion, mostly heated on my part, I made the choice to stay. I knew full well then that it would take a lot for me to trust her again, but in my eyes she is worth the effort. 

Her back surgery did not leave her crippled. In fact she is out of pain most days, and in physical therapy to return range of motion and strength. She is at home mowing the lawn right now, so her prospects of being 90-ish percent healed post-operation are good.

I guess more along the lines of advice I was looking for were methods to trust, but also methods and ideas to check. I hate to say this is the life I have chosen, but it is and I accept that.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

aug said:


> He lives 1200 miles away and they arranged a tryst in Vegas? There must be some deep history between them.
> 
> 
> and I thought his daughter told you of the possible affair. So his kids already knew. You should update his daughter who had the decency to tell you.


He used to be her boss when we lived there for about 4 years. His wife was a friend of my wife's and when she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, my wife's family has had many members with this disease. I think it pair bonded the two of them.

I do owe his daughter a debt I cannot repay. She helped derail the affair before my wife moved out. However she has a tenancy to run off at the mouth at church and in the community. My entire family lives in the same small town, people talk, see where I am going? I have a copy of the lie filled letter he wrote them before Christmas when they banned him from Christmas dinner. I feel like red lining it and sending it to them, just so that they can know the truth. He ends the letter saying he has done nothing wrong, and they should respect him as their father and a loving husband to his dying wife. I almost vomited when I read it.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

aug said:


> Apparently too giving! She gave away something that was not hers to give.


I agree, but the past is the past. It can't hurt us if we deal with it, and we have. It's the present that concerns me, and the future. I hate to sound like I don't trust her, because I have always blindly trusted her. But the reality is I don't for now, and we are working on it for both our parts. I just don't know how to live a life checking on her, as I never have. 

Jeez that sounds bad, but the reality is for me I am here as long as it is just her and I. If the relationship rekindles I am gone, and I have told her that. She seems very convinced it will not, I have never asked why she seems so convinced of that.


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## Voiceofreason (Mar 6, 2011)

Why are you renewing your vows? You already gave your vows and lived by them. She did not. She should renew her vows to you but not vice versa.

As for monitoring, there are many things you can do, including putting a voice activated tape recorder where she might make calls to him, especially in the car. Key loggers can also work, and some phones can have texts, including some deleted texts, downloaded off of them. You can also see the phone numbers for calls and texts on the phone bills. Others here are expert and will likely weigh in with specifics...


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Voiceofreason said:


> Why are you renewing your vows? You already gave your vows and lived by them. She did not. She should renew her vows to you but not vice versa.


Wow, that's difficult to process, but I appreciate your point of view. I guess, without taking ownership of my wife's actions because they are her's not mine, I will tell a bit about me. I come from a long line of over obsessive work-a-holics. I am often called to travel, and there are nights I have answered emails and calls at home until bedtime. I have run off more of my daughters boyfriends than I care to mention, and not always in a nice way. In short, without going much further, while claiming to be a man of faith, I do not believe I was truly "honoring" my wife, nor seeking her in a romantic way as I should have. 

I am not responsible for her affair, but I am charged with being the spiritual leader of our house, a father for my kids to come to instead of a judgmental ogre to be feared, and foremost a best friend to my wife. Which we were in the beginning, but in the last two years...not so much. 

I can own that part of it, it happened, I was that man. And for that I am lead to believe that there needs to be a renewal from my perspective on those grounds. 

I hear what yu are saying, and it makes sense for me taken only in the light of the affair, but I am not a perfect man, I have just never cheated on her except perhaps with my career.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The betrayal runs deep. She took it underground after the first time. Then she sent him a mail that NC was something that you forced it on her? How can you trust this person ever again? She knows what you have access to and your snooping methods. Like you said, she will find a way if she wants to.(and she most likely is). Smartphones have a lot of chat applications that you will never know and won't be recorded on the bill. There are ways to hide appliactions on the phone too.

My suggestion would be to put the marriage on probation. Take your time and decide if living with her is worth it. Expose the affair to all the relevant people. 

How does your wife view the OM now?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

You say she knows computers well. Do you have your own computer? Is it passworded? You dont want her to know what you are doing.

You can get some innocuous recording/monitoring devices from those "spy stores" to keep track of her.

This lack of trust will take years (?) to dissipate, if ever.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Smartphones have a lot of chat applications that you will never know and won't be recorded on the bill. There are ways to hide appliactions on the phone too.
> 
> How does your wife view the OM now?


The smart phone definitely gives me anxiety. I know very little about them. I carry a Blackberry for work, but I am not a phone obsessed person. It's a tool for me, not a lifestyle. I have had daydreams about me using a hammer on it, that and every other computer in the house. 

Her stories have been confusing to say the least. I know him, he's not a friend, but I saw him at church for 4 years. She wants me to believe that he is suicidal, and she was pursuing him even after I discovered. But the reality I have gotten from the emails I read she thought she deleted is that she did try to break it off after I discovered, but he just poured on the coals to the fire. He threatened to kill himself, he talked about how he was throwing out or deleting all the things she shared with him, every little comment was something to leverage her. It's very sickening to read. 

I say all that to say this. She wants me to believe that she led him astray, that he is a good and caring man, and that I should forgive him. Yeah...that's not going to happen anytime soon. In fact the greatest blessing is that he lives so far away, and out of my reach.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Link182 said:


> I say all that to say this. She wants me to believe that she led him astray, that he is a good and caring man, and that I should forgive him. Yeah...that's not going to happen anytime soon. In fact the greatest blessing is that he lives so far away, and out of my reach.


WOW, she's still in love with him. You only protect the people you are in love with.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't think you have any choice but to expose this man to his "flock".


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope you have been tested for STD's. You are in such major denial. Her actions show she has no respect for you whatsoever and sees you as a fool easy to manipulate. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

Renewing your vows is ludicrous. She clearly had no problem breaking her vows previously so what is the point in making new vows since they are meaningless to her? You really need to see a lawyer to understand all of your options. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be such a doormat as you have become. I do wish you luck because you will need it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposé his cheating with a married woman to his church growers and to friends and family. 

It's not revenge you are doing this for. It is exposing his lying and the affair. It is you telling the truth.

He is no man of god, he is showing that through his actions. Heis counting on you being a doormat and not ending him. How many other married women is he also doing thswith? You will be helping more marriages.

As for your wife. I bet the plan in her head is to continue to lie to you until she is better, and your insurance has paid for her healing, and you have provided a warm safe home, and once she is better she will dump you and run off to be with him.

She has done nothing but le and use you, and you keep uncovering it, and forgiving. You see the pattern here?

Your one chance is to expose her cheating and her OM and make the affairs see the light of day which will help stop them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

He isn't out of your reach.

Post him on cheaterville.com and notify his flock of the manipulative Devil they've let inside their families
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I agree with Shaggy, expose his adultery to his congregation so that he can realize his sin, find grace in that Jesus took up the punishment for this sin and help him along his path to repentence. If he is a Christian, and had made leading others to Christ his calling then he will be grateful for your courage to do the right thing and put him on back on the righteous path.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I am sorry you find yourself here.

My thoughts on renewing your vows--tell her you want to put it off until next summer. Say you are still very much in shock, wounded, needing to heal, and this summer is much too soon for you to experience such a ceremony without some pain. The truth is, renewing your vows will always be something bittersweet now, but there is no rush to do this.

As others said, verify. Someone who lied and lied and lied some more--well, your gut instinct isn't to believe them, and there's a very good reason for that. Her affair was a powerful fantasy, and she wasn't going to give it up without a good dose of reality.

I had a similar experience, except that for me DD#1 and DD#2 were three years apart. Same woman, same emotional affair, they only broke it off for a few weeks after DD#1. I just didn't know (as you clearly have learned) that the compulsion to stay in contact is very, very strong and overrides all sense of logic.

I agree with what has been said--keylogger for the computer, GPS and VAR on the car, spyware and GPS on her phone. This is NOT a long term solution. The reason you're even asking is you know you can't live this way indefinitely. That if ultimately she just can't resist the lure of that creepy pastor with zero morality, you will have to let her go.

But in the meantime, if you want to R, and she seems willing to comply, verify. I will tell you what it's done for me (I'm 3 mos. out from DD#2, in February)--greatly reduced my anxiety. Given my husband the chance to prove his loyalty to me. I still check, but I surprised myself by going 14 days without looking at the cell phone bill, and seeing as how I was checking nearly every hour on the hour back in March, I'd say that's progress.

Eventually you will have to step out on a limb and trust her again. But with a DD less than a month ago, now is waaaaay too soon to be even contemplating that.

Someone else probably mentioned this, but she needs to be giving you total transparency. She's accounting for her time, she's checking in with you throughout the day, she gives you all her passwords to everything (facebook, email accounts, chat accounts, etc.). The keylogger on the computer will verify that she doesn't have secret accounts she's withholding from you.

I also was able to read emails that my husband thought was deleted. While some of them revealed some terrible things (like the fact that he was in his affair during our 6+ mos of MC back in 2008), they also aligned with a lot of my husband's story. Since these were emails I discovered myself, it helped me a lot in restoring my trust.

It's early days for you yet. I didn't discover that the affair continued after DD#1 through those 6 mos of MC until 2 or 3 weeks after DD#2. Cheaters, down to the man or woman, employ "trickle truth": they are so accustomed to lying to you about the affair, that after discovery the just keep right on lying. They prefer to tell you stuff only on a 'need to know basis' and they lie to themselves that they are 'protecting you.' So just realize that there may be a bombshell or two left, although maybe not, you've had enough for a lifetime.

I have totally have walked / am walking in your shoes, have faith that you will sort out the right choices.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Your marriage will never be the same as it was.

Here are your choices:

1) Have a good marriage, where your wife loves you and is faithful to you. (THIS WILL REQUIRE YOU TO SET BOUNDARIES AND CONDITIONS FOR YOUR WIFE TO FOLLOW IF SHE WANTS YOU NOT TO DIVORCE HER, THEN TO MONITOR THOSE CONDITIONS, AND INITIATE DIVORCE IF SHE DOESN'T FOLLOW THEM).

or

2) Have a marriage that is tolerable to you, where your wife cheats on you behind your back, but you remain mostly unaware of it, catching her every so often, with her swearing to end the affair, and then have it start up again, probably with the same other man, but maybe with a new one. (THIS WILL REQUIRE YOU TO DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW).

If your wife loved you, she would be actively trying to do everything in her power to help you heal from her betrayal and forgive her; her still defending the other man now as good and honorable (after how dis-honorably he acted after the temporary no contact) shows that she still has very strong feelings for him - she does not see what a lowlife he really is - she is still in the fog and very likely still is in contact with him.

Given the situation you describe and how uncomfortable you are, why does your wife still have access to a cell phone and computer? If you gave her a choice, give up the cell phone or computer until you rebuild trust, or accept a divorce, which do you think she would choose?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

If I read your posts correctly, you are not interested in doing the things that are necessary to save your marriage - namely exposing the affair and imposing conditions that make you feel safe the affair is over (like her giving up access to the devices until your trust is rebuilt).

I think you stated that you just want the truth of whether your wife is continuing to cheat on you, so you can leave her if she is.

In that case, simply ask your wife to take a lie detector test. Given the fact that she cheated on you again even after being caught the first time, she should understand your need for this. Any reasonable person would understand how you feel - might not like it, but would understand it. If you were in your wife's shoes, and you weren't cheating now, but had already been caught twice, wouldn't you agree to it? I don't know how accurate polygraphs are, but just her reaction and her willingness or unwillingness to take one should tell you a lot. If she does agree to it, schedule it and go through with it. She may be counting on you not going through with it if she agrees. Some cheaters wait to confess their affairs until they are on their way to the polygraph.

Also, do the spy stuff the others recommend. Voice-activated recorders in the car, house, gps on the car, keyloggers, etc. With those things secretly in place, he or she will slip up and you will discover the truth.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> She wants me to believe that she led him astray





> WOW, she's still in love with him. You only protect the people you are in love with.


Partially, she's clearly delusional about her KISA. Expose her second affair to him and expose him to the congregation, with hard - undeniable - evidence.
Still, as she was also cibersexing OM2 - HSBFF simultaneously it's no wonder she could believe she's the succubus who led this mad of good sin.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You talk briefly about her conducting 2 A's at the same time----What is your wife really all about???? What was the 2nd A., all about???????

You seem to be probably in your late 40's or 50's----so you lived in a time when there were no cellphones, and there were no computers---there was just the landline

In your situation, and if your wife is serious about NC, with her lovers, and you really wanna stay with her, and make this work---then you give her the following ultimatum

She does not get to have a cellphone OF ANY KIND---if she needs to make a call she uses your landline---otherwise she has no need of a phone.---She is not to go anywhere near a computer----if she violates these boundaries---she is gone

It is obvious she depends on you for support---so you can make these boundaries stick----if she doesn't get to call her friends/lovers/children/family on a cellphone---to bad----guess what a landline works very nicely, and you can trace each and every call that was made---she can't delete them.

You make her sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS CLAUSE---make it strongly in your favor, so she will think twice before violating her boundaries

She MUST DO ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING TO STAY IN THIS MGE----the main problems, seem to be her need to be with other men via her electronics, so that has to be taken away from her

By demanding these boundaries, you will really find out where she stands in re: YOU

If she agrees to your boundaries, and there do need to be others, which you should be able to work out from reading and listening---then you need to change your work situation so you can and will spend more time with her----

As to your vow renewal, at this time, that is just phony sentiment---you have no vows to renew---what you need to do, is to try to start a new mge., from the ashes of the dead mge-------but as to vows---she knows not, and cares not, what they mean, so why renew!!!!!!


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Wow, some of that was tough to read. I will try to fill in all the blanks I left as obvious by the questions. Let me say this, I appreciate and understand all you have said. I apologize for being a rookie, but this is my first time dealing with this. 

The other affair was with the last boyfriend she had before we met. They reconnected in 2010 (before the affair with the pastor), and again in the Fall of 2011 (during the affair with the pastor). From the limited amount of info I have it seems to have been "Skype-sex" mutual masturbation, and sexting of naked pictures back and forth. This amazes me as my wife has never before even alluded to an interest in these types of things. The pastor doesn't know about it, only she and I do. I have located the man's wife's work address and am only too tempted to send her the Facebook chat log I forwarded to myself while logged on to her account. I also have the idea that sending it to the pastor isn't too shabby of an idea.

I am in my early 40's my wife is in her late 40's, to answer the age debate.

Here is my only hang up with exposing the affair. If my wife has truly severed all contact and is working to rebuild our marriage, exposing the truth means it will get out in our little home town. This man was one of the pastors of our church and has recently started going back there. His oldest daughter also attends there. He is now working as a used car salesman, he is no longer pastoring. 

It's not that I fear losing my wife and our 10 years of marriage, although it would break my heart (again). It's that I really don't know what the truth is. I have already prepared packets of emails, video's, pictures of cards they sent each other, sex toys, etc. for mailing to his kids should I ever find them in contact again. It's that my wife is smart enough and I am now also to realize that the internet is wide open. She can create an alternate email address and Facebook or Skype in minutes and be back up and running. So I suppose the key logger/spyware idea is the only route to go. Can that also be done on a smartphone? She has volunteered to get a phone that does phone and text only with no internet access, and I believe that is where we are going next. I simply can't live this life of high anxiety.

I look in her eyes, and she says the things she used to say to me and I want desperately to believe. I want this to go away and never to have to introduce my children to this reality I live in. But the reality is and some have said it here, she lied to me for over 1.5 years and I had not one clue. I look back and all the signs were there, but I thought "no, not my wife". But she could lie to me now and I would still have no idea at all. I want too much to trust her, and the reality is I don't and I shouldn't.

Thanks for the comments, I apologize for disappearing like that, we took some time off this weekend down at the lake. Everybody needed to get away. I should mention since January we have experienced the death of my wife's best friend, and a tornado destroyed our house. That's what exposed to me the affair was still going on, when cleaning out the house, there was no place to hide things anymore. I found the cards, the second cell phone she had purchased, the sex toys, etc all within a matter of days. 

What a mess....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A Pastor who has affairs? Isn't that rather like a police officer who robs banks?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*Here is my only hang up with exposing the affair. If my wife has truly severed all contact and is working to rebuild our marriage, exposing the truth means it will get out in our little home town.*

I normally don't recommend exposing the affair initially, only after the cheater has shown they are willing to lie and hide things to continue the affair. Your wife has done this.

You had D-Day #1 in November. #2 in April, with another NC message that was a lie before it even happened because your wife immediately emailed other man that she didn't mean any of it.

Exposure really is the most effective weapon because the other man's wife/family help you monitor by keeping an eye on him. It also clears up your wife's foggy thinking when the other man throws her under the bus and she sees him for what he really is, that he is not willing to fight for her like you have.

Affairs thrive in secrecy and exposure ends the secrecy. A lot of the excitement of the affair comes from the hiding of it. When it's all out in the open, and the cheaters' families and friends are showing their disapproval, the affair loses much of its lustre.

If your wife had broken down in a sobbing, crying, wailing, blubbering, snot-running mess after D-Day #1, exposure probably would not be necessary. Your wife coldly lied and took it further underground, then undermined a subsequent no contact message. She carried this affair on for a long time despite thinking she might lose you over it, even after you caught her twice. Using common sense, do you think she really is now out of the fog and committed to you? Or will she relapse into the affair the first time the other man goes fishing for contact? Or will she wait a while and then go fishing for contact?

If you want to kill this affair once and for all, then expose it now. You don't have to show all of the evidence and documentation to everyone you expose to. Offer it to the other man's wife or family, if they refuse to believe what you are telling them. With your family and her family and friends, just tell them that she had an affair, tell them with whom, and tell them you would like their support as you try to rebuild your marriage.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

The OM's wife is in hospice care right now. She has been terminal with Alzheimer's for years now. But I have the email address's for his 3 kids and many of his family. I really don't see the need to go beyond his kids for exposure. I had thought to send him a package with the pictures of the materials included to show him what they would receive, but blackmail just stains my hands too. Exposure to his kids seems the only way.

Thanks for the advice and reassurance. Seems as if we needed to have a talk tonight, can't sustain this level of anxiety much longer. Just makes me tired and sick most days.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> The OM's wife is in hospice care right now. She has been terminal with Alzheimer's for years now. But I have the email address's for his 3 kids and many of his family. I really don't see the need to go beyond his kids for exposure. I had thought to send him a package with the pictures of the materials included to show him what they would receive, but blackmail just stains my hands too. Exposure to his kids seems the only way.
> 
> Thanks for the advice and reassurance. Seems as if we needed to have a talk tonight, can't sustain this level of anxiety much longer. Just makes me tired and sick most days.


Giving the OM advance warning may be a form of blackmail, but really what it does is give him lots of time to get his ducks in a row. He gets to paint you as the crazy stalker with a screw loose. Do you really think you can scare someone like that sober? He's already helped your wife violate her marriage vows. This man clearly believes that morality applies to everyone EXCEPT for him. I am glad you realized that wasn't a good idea.

You can start with his kids, but realize that sometimes an AP's family members also have a vested interest in hiding the affair. If you find that's the case--well, you know the next step you'll need to take.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

I just finished emailing back and forth with his oldest son. Turns out he was also cheated on by his wife, and so he sympathizes with me. He did say he and his sisters have a few questions, and while realizing that they were being lied to, they had no hope for the truth. He did ask me as a fellow Christian what were my motives. I am thinking hard about this, as my first answer would be to sever the link once and for all and drag the affair out into the light. But overall beyond the fantasy about creating a hell for this man the likes of which he and my wife dumped on me, the answer should be...closure. I am OK if our marriage fails because we couldn't work it out, but I am not OK if he is still working behind the scenes to destroy it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You're wringing your hands debating on exposure like it's a betrayal.

The betrayal has already happened repeatedly by your wife.

You are just telling people the truth.

As for your marriage and wife. I'm sorry but I do not see that recovering because frankly your wife won't stop and won't tell the truth. 

she's played you for a fool and has lied and taken it underground. If she's not with this looser, then she has likely found some new looser to give her love and passion too. 

Look at her track record. If she was in fiance, no bank would lend her a dime. 

Exposing the affair is the only way to truly see if she is working on R. It will force her to face what she has chosen to be: A lying cheat who tossed aside her husband and vows for crappy sex with a couple of losers.

If she is serious about choosing you, then she will face the humiliation of the truth being known in your town and your church. She will face it, admit what she chose to do, but follow it up with that she has chosen to work hard at earning back the change to be called your wife.

IF however, she refuses to exposure. It she gets angry at it, and fights you. You then know the real truth. That her pleas to stay with you are false, and just a game to get you to give her a home and a nurse to care for her, and that she fully totally intends to keep cheating on you, and laughing behind you back with her lovers.

So exposure isn't about revenge, it's about taking the high road and living with the truth. It's about refusing to join in the conspiracy of silence that permitted the affair, and refusing to help her cover up the choice she made to betray you.

It's also a test to see if she is actually telling the truth this time, unlike the other times.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Link182 said:


> I just finished emailing back and forth with his oldest son. Turns out he was also cheated on by his wife, and so he sympathizes with me. He did say he and his sisters have a few questions, and while realizing that they were being lied to, they had no hope for the truth. He did ask me as a fellow Christian what were my motives. I am thinking hard about this, as my first answer would be to sever the link once and for all and drag the affair out into the light. But overall beyond the fantasy about creating a hell for this man the likes of which he and my wife dumped on me, the answer should be...closure. I am OK if our marriage fails because we couldn't work it out, but I am not OK if he is still working behind the scenes to destroy it.


Tell him you want revenge for his father destroying your marriage. But that it's OK, as you can repent afterwards, but that you are also giving his father a chance to repent.

Pastor's marriage was changed by his wife having Alzheimer's. Whilst that is sad, it did NOT give him the right to take your marriage in its place.

That is like a child losing its Sweets/candy and stealing some candy from another child because of some feeling of entitlement.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I want too much to trust her, and the reality is I don't and I shouldn't.


This will be your undoing. You just have to be prepared to leave at some point. Her betrayal is deep and very disgusting. Contacting him immediately after the NC that she was forced to do it? She wasn't into R for even one second. Not one tiny speck of integrity. There are cheating wives that go back into the affairs after a while due to the addictive nature of an affair. But she did not even try. How much of a idiot should she think you are to do it immediately. Can you imagine yourself doing this to your wife. Pretty disgusting, isn't it? Why do you think it is different this time? She has absolutely no respect for you. Where did it come from all of a sudden?



> I should mention since January we have experienced the death of my wife's best friend, and a tornado destroyed our house. That's what exposed to me the affair was still going on, when cleaning out the house, there was no place to hide things anymore. I found the cards, the second cell phone she had purchased, the sex toys, etc all within a matter of days.


You cannot trust a tornado to expose her affair every time. Even the first time, his daughter exposed him. You cannot get luckier than that. If you are religious or not, you cannot get anymore obvious signs than that. Reminds me of the story where the priest gets trapped in a flood and refuses help.

Edit:
You should visit some pro affair forums to see how disgusting, unrepentant and selfish the cheaters can be. Some are so deluded and out of the loop that you wouldn't even believe what they are saying to justify the affair. Some increase the sex frequency to blindside the H to the affair. They idealize the OM> Your wife likely belongs to one of these crowds.

Do you have kids?


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Yes we have three grown kids 21,24,26. The two youngest live with us still although our middle child is getting married in October and will obviously move out then. He was home on DD#1 and I wasn't exactly quiet about things. I think he has some idea what is going on, but he has never asked and I don't want to troll this out in front of the kids unless things don't work out. At that point they will need to be told the truth.

To avoid the confusion they are all my step children. Their Dad never seemed to want the job and I did, so we have always acted as if I was the dad and they have always treated me that way. I love them as much as any parent can, but yes for the length of time we have been married, they are too old to be mine. Sorry that question comes up a lot so I thought I would head it off directly.

I am and was prepared to leave on DD#2. I had already told my wife I would stay and work things out with her as long as it was her and I. When I found the emails on her phone that morning, I walked into her room and dropped my ring and the phone on her night stand and told her she must not have known how serious I was. She broke down and pleaded with me to stay. I forced her to open up her computer and we went through all of her accounts and wiped him from everywhere. I went through her phone and Skype account and recorded all the user names and ID's I could find, that is how I discovered the online fling with the former boyfriend. 

I realize in many eyes, and perhaps my own at times I appear like a chump. But there is a rational brain behind these sad eyes. I want to believe in her brain somewhere, confused by the drugs in the past year and the depression, and the menopause hormonal spikes that there is something left of the life we have built inside my wife's heart. But I am prepared emotionally like I wasn't 3 months ago. I have been up, down, angry, depressed, suicidal, sad, remorseful, blamed myself, etc, etc, etc. But in the end I have come through most all of that to place where I just want to know for sure "is it over?". And I know that answer for now at least can't come from my wife, because she has lied to me for so long even after discovery that her word means nothing to me until confirmed.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> Yes we have three grown kids 21,24,26. The two youngest live with us still although our middle child is getting married in October and will obviously move out then. He was home on DD#1 and I wasn't exactly quiet about things. I think he has some idea what is going on, but he has never asked and I don't want to troll this out in front of the kids unless things don't work out. At that point they will need to be told the truth.
> 
> To avoid the confusion they are all my step children. Their Dad never seemed to want the job and I did, so we have always acted as if I was the dad and they have always treated me that way. I love them as much as any parent can, but yes for the length of time we have been married, they are too old to be mine. Sorry that question comes up a lot so I thought I would head it off directly.


This information is sobering because another pattern that you will see on the forums is the mother who found a dad for her children, and then, when the children reach the age of majority and no longer require the same level of care, the wife is 'done' with the marriage because it's served its purpose. I know how mean and harsh that sounds but I just want you to know that this is something that we see.



> I realize in many eyes, and perhaps my own at times I appear like a chump. But there is a rational brain behind these sad eyes. I want to believe in her brain somewhere, confused by the drugs in the past year and the depression, and the menopause hormonal spikes that there is something left of the life we have built inside my wife's heart. But I am prepared emotionally like I wasn't 3 months ago. I have been up, down, angry, depressed, suicidal, sad, remorseful, blamed myself, etc, etc, etc. But in the end I have come through most all of that to place where I just want to know for sure "is it over?". And I know that answer for now at least can't come from my wife, because she has lied to me for so long even after discovery that her word means nothing to me until confirmed.


I am reconciled with my husband who had a 4.5 year emotional affair. I am sure (although no one has dared say much to me) that there are plenty of people who question that choice.

As long as you understand what you are going into in trying to reconcile with a cheater who has done what she has done, you don't have to justify your choices.

People get very confused about exposure, as Shaggy said so well. I suppose good people see that in their hearts they have anger toward the OM and they fear that exposure is playing to that anger and, because they are good people, they worry that now the affair has taken them over and is rotting their soul, too.

This is just twisted and backwards. Affairs are rotting, stinking, disgusting betrayals that grow in caves. Affair partners COUNT ON THE GOOD PEOPLE STAYING SILENT. That is how affairs work! It's just like ANY OTHER EVIL! The good people cower and stay silent and this allows the evil doers free reign.

As Shaggy says, if you are simply telling the truth, the hurt has already happened. They are the ones who did the shameful thing. Helping them hide their shame is complicity.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You know she fears her lovers dumping her and leaving. That's why she was so quick to followup the NC letter with the email.

Doing the exposure, will prompt a similar response from her which you can watch for since only you will know when its happening. Since you won't be giving her any warning about the exposure.

btw - sending the skype log to the OM pastor/car sales man(perfect career transition for that that guy for sure!) about her cheating on him is a actually quite nice since it will cause him to be really angry at her along with the exposure.

--

Has she shown any signs of going through withdrawl? If her behavior is addiction/fog driven then shouldn't she go through withdrawl if it was over? If you haven't seen any it doesn't look good for her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My money is still on her planning on leaving you. It's either when her body is healed and she no longer needs your medical insurance, or it's when the pastor's wife dies. 

She knows if you dump her, that her meal ticket is gone. Pastor guy can't pay for her insurance and medical costs on top of his wife's, so she's milking you until she's healthy.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Ok well, since we are dumping might as well put the whole truckload out here. My wife's family has a history of bi-polar disorder, her half brother has been diagnosed with schizophrenia (?), my wife has been on Lexapro for mood swings for at least 5 years now. So what is normal for her? Who knows... She's post-op 3 months now with a spinal fusion and has mostly stopped taking the muscle relaxers and pain killers. But up until the surgery in February had been taking all her meds, and drinking for over a year while dealing some pretty severe back pain. Throw in the 6 week periods due to pre-menopause, and the kids leaving, a tornado hitting our house, discovery of the affair, and her best friend dieing, normal is such a hard target to hit. 

Not trying to be sarcastic or even whining about our lot in life, it's just our life. But if I couldn't tell she was having an affair with all that in the mix, how can I tell if she is in withdrawals?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Link182 said:


> Ok well, since we are dumping might as well put the whole truckload out here. My wife's family has a history of bi-polar disorder, her half brother has been diagnosed with schizophrenia (?), my wife has been on Lexapro for mood swings for at least 5 years now. So what is normal for her? Who knows... She's post-op 3 months now with a spinal fusion and has mostly stopped taking the muscle relaxers and pain killers. But up until the surgery in February had been taking all her meds, and drinking for over a year while dealing some pretty severe back pain. Throw in the 6 week periods due to pre-menopause, and the kids leaving, a tornado hitting our house, discovery of the affair, and her best friend dieing, normal is such a hard target to hit.
> 
> Not trying to be sarcastic or even whining about our lot in life, it's just our life. But if I couldn't tell she was having an affair with all that in the mix, how can I tell if she is in withdrawals?


Wow. What a mix. Something that I find amazing is that with all that going on, especially the meds+menopause+surgery that she was up for cheating, sex toys, and the rest.

I would have thought she would have been in such physical pain that sex would have been practically impossible.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> My money is still on her planning on leaving you. It's either when her body is healed and she no longer needs your medical insurance, or it's when the pastor's wife dies.
> 
> She knows if you dump her, that her meal ticket is gone. Pastor guy can't pay for her insurance and medical costs on top of his wife's, so she's milking you until she's healthy.


I have considered this. But I honestly don't think my wife has this level of committment in her. There is a book called "Jan's Story" about a man loosing his wife to Alzheimer's and finds new love with another woman...blah...blah...blah. I found this e-book on the wife's old iphone, and letter/email the pastor wrote to the author explaining how his wife was dieing and he had found a new love. They were simply looking for a way to break the news to his kids, and then when she divorced her husband (me) and his wife finally died, they would be married and move away together.

But when confronted with reality, I could see the fantasy crumble in her eyes. I have seen the emails that she wrote to him in early January 2012 where she tried to break it off with him, and he threw everything at her from suicide, to revealing the affair to keep the contact going. I have seen enough emails from my wife to him to know she recognizes reality, I just think she wants things to quiet down, get swept under the rug, and then we both pretend this never happened. Sorry babe, it can't work that way for me.

I really do believe that my wife got involved in something with someone she trusted, it got out of control, and for whatever reason she could not or would not stop it. Not making excuses for her, but I have made some bad mistakes in my life and in this marriage and there has been a path of redemption for me. I have to at least leave the door open a crack, or what hope is there for recovery?


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Wow. What a mix. Something that I find amazing is that with all that going on, especially the meds+menopause+surgery that she was up for cheating, sex toys, and the rest.
> 
> I would have thought she would have been in such physical pain that sex would have been practically impossible.


<insert chuckle> Well at least with me it was, but apparently not with others. I find this confusing as well, at least from a physical stand point, but certainly not an emotional one. She started sleeping with pajamas on for the first time in 10 years last summer, after the Vegas tryst. I guess that should have tipped me off, but it didn't. She also began sleeping way over on her side of the King bed, where before she would always snuggle up against me. I hate to admit it, but we probably were only intimate in 2011 perhaps...5-6 times. Which before that was definitely not normal. I look back at it and it seems so clear, but I really had thought that perhaps this is the way marriages go after 10 years when you are both in your 40's.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> I just think she wants things to quiet down, get swept under the rug, and then we both pretend this never happened. Sorry babe, it can't work that way for me.


Like I said, as long as you aren't in denial, aren't having the wool pulled over your eyes, and understand what you are in for, you don't need to justify a choice to try for R.

But this is why I am insisting my husband attend individual counseling even though he is otherwise mentally doing great. He needs to sort out how to deal with conflict in our marriage which led to him confiding in someone else when we had problems rather than confronting me. (We are already in MC with someone trained in infidelity.)

As long as you see that there truly ARE no excuses for marital infidelity, then you will successfully avoid rug-sweeping.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

> But this is why I am insisting my husband attend individual counseling even though he is otherwise mentally doing great. He needs to sort out how to deal with conflict in our marriage which led to him confiding in someone else when we had problems rather than confronting me. (We are already in MC with someone trained in infidelity.)
> 
> As long as you see that there truly ARE no excuses for marital infidelity, then you will successfully avoid rug-sweeping.


I know from the intense reading I have done over the last 6 months that the wife and both have issues with conflict. I internalize and blow up, she runs away. I think in many ways we are the picture of co-dependency. It did shock me a little when the MC told us last week that she thought the hard work was over and we could scale back to one visit every month. I went to counseling first on my own. After 4 trips, my wife decided she would go with me. We have only been 4 times together over the last two months, and one time all we talked about was the tragedy of the tornado. Wife was leary of talking to the MC that day because it was after DD#2 and she had already told the MC that she had no more contact with the OM and did not want to have to admit she had lied to the MC. So she monopolized the entire hour with discussion of the tornado. 

I know my wife dealt with a lot of crud growing up. Step-father attempted or did molest her, parents both had affairs and divorced, she wound up a ward of the court. She gave away a child at 18 for adoption, first son's father physically abused her, first husband was emotionally abusive to her and the kids. So taken together she deals with a lot of baggage, but she doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to pretend everything is fine, and she is tough, but inside I see her crying as I haven't in 10 years. It's not an excuse, but perhaps the beginnings of empathy inside me where it hasn't been before.

I should also add we live in a small town (12k) in the Midwest. There are two counselors in our town, the next nearest town of any size is an hour away. Nearest big city is 3 hours away. Mental health professionals are not abundant here, to say the least.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

White knight syndrome?


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> White knight syndrome?


Call me a noob, but I am not sure what you mean beyond the obvious referral to what a White Knight in Shining Armor is?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> Wife was leary of talking to the MC that day because it was after DD#2 and she had already told the MC that she had no more contact with the OM and did not want to have to admit she had lied to the MC. So she monopolized the entire hour with discussion of the tornado.


I hope this was eventually rectified? Having the MC hold her feet to the fire is an essential part of MC after an affair.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> In legends and folklore, the white knight rescues the damsel in distress, falls in love, and saves the day. Real-life white knights are men and women who enter into romantic relationships with damaged and vulnerable partners, hoping that love will transform their partner's behavior or life; a relationship pattern that seldom leads to a storybook ending.
> Though most white knights feel that they are selfless and sacrificing, their rescuing behavior is often misguided. Problems arise when white knights care for their partners at the expense of their own needs, encounter abusive or self-destructive behavior in their partners, or try to control and make decisions for their partners.
> 
> The White Knight Syndrome explains the origins of this behavior, presents three subtypes of white knights, and explores the concept of balanced rescuing.






> White Knight Syndrome
> n. A personality characteristic found in most males that lead them to:
> 1. rush to the aid of any female they see who appears in any form of distress.
> 2. Become attracted to said damsel in distress.
> 3. Follow the dying code of chivalry and generally act like a nice guy.




Found it on the internet


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I hope this was eventually rectified? Having the MC hold her feet to the fire is an essential part of MC after an affair.


It was in the next session where the MC asked her if she had had any contact with the OM, she said no. At this point I brought up what she had never told the MC about the email after the NC letter. The MC asked her why she did that, she responded that she was mad at me for making her end it the way I did without even being able to explain it to the OM. 

She did cry a bit when the MC told her that she hoped the OM could find someone AVAILABLE to be with and move on with his life once his wife had died. Little things like this make me curious...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Link182 said:


> She did cry a bit when the MC told her that she hoped the OM could find someone AVAILABLE to be with and move on with his life once his wife had died.


:slap::slap::slap:


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Found it on the internet


lol...I often say the most important thing I know how to do with a computer is buying them. This is the most time I have spent on a computer doing other than work ever. I am more the outdoor work in the garden, hunt and fish type of time spender. My first reaction is never to go look it up, it is to ask a question and open a dialogue. It makes my whole family roll their eyes too.

That is one of the things that makes me a bit leery. I have one work laptop and a personal one at home. Wife has 3 laptops and one PC. Don't hate me, I love to give the family what it is they need, and they always seem to need new computers. I have the income to do it, and up until the affair I saw no reason they could not have them. The PC is packed after the tornado, and one laptop needs a new battery so it is out of commission for now. It will become a new laptop for middle son when a new battery gets ordered, but for now it sits. She has one large laptop for gaming and pictures which are here two great loves besides being on the internet all the time. The small laptop is very small and gets taken on trips for convenience.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

keko said:


> :slap::slap::slap:


To be fair to the situation I may have mis-characterized it a bit. She already was upset and had tears on her face when I broke the news to the counselor about the email after the NC letter. But it did continue through the discussion about having no more contact and the OM finding someone available to be with and move on. Not sure which had more or less affect on her crying, but it did not hit me until a few days later.

Call me a lunk head, I deserve it. Not the sharpest tool in the shed to be sure in all things relationship wise.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

I also want to say again how much I appreciate all of the perspectives offered here. It's tough to know what is the right thing to do, when you have very few people you trust to ask for advice. I like the MC we are seeing, but I had the impression that we would be at this for months at least and perhaps years. Her statement last session seems to say to me that the bad stuff is behind us, I need to learn to trust my wife again, and we are able to work the rest of this out on our own. Not really the route I thought this would take 30 days post DD#2.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Link182 said:


> To be fair to the situation I may have mis-characterized it a bit. She already was upset and had tears on her face when I broke the news to the counselor about the email after the NC letter. But it did continue through the discussion about having no more contact and the OM finding someone available to be with and move on. Not sure which had more or less affect on her crying, but it did not hit me until a few days later.
> 
> Call me a lunk head, I deserve it. Not the sharpest tool in the shed to be sure in all things relationship wise.


No, Im not trying to belittle you or call you names. Most of us have been in your shoes or worse so we have a very good idea when a cheating spouse is trying to fake the R and/or rugsweeping.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

No, you don't need to learn to trust your wife again. Same way you don't need to touch hot stove with bare hands again. There is absolutely no reason for trust.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

@Keko

I would be alright if you did. I know I may not be handling this the way I should be, but at some point I have to let my gut and my heart run a little. The mind sees demons in every corner, and if she is back on the path and working towards recovery, constantly accusing her does us no good.

That being said, what is the normal process a WS goes through if they have gone so far as to "fall in love" with another person and consider divorce of their spouse (me)? How long will that feeling of fantasy / infatuation last for her? What signs tell me that she still sees him in that light of "affair love" and not as the scheming low life that he is? It seems like it can't be me that shows her how awful what he did was, using his training as a pastor to influence her, praying with her daily that God would end our marriage so they could be together. How can her faith / intelligence have fallen so low as to believe that God would hear and honor that prayer?

I wish I could be inside her head for an hour to snoop around. I am really never sure if what she is telling me is what she thinks I want to hear or the actual truth. It keeps me up at night o be sure.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Link182 said:


> I know from the intense reading I have done over the last 6 months that the wife and both have issues with conflict. I internalize and blow up, she runs away. I think in many ways we are the picture of co-dependency. It did shock me a little when the MC told us last week that she thought the hard work was over and we could scale back to one visit every month. I went to counseling first on my own. After 4 trips, my wife decided she would go with me. We have only been 4 times together over the last two months, and one time all we talked about was the tragedy of the tornado. Wife was leary of talking to the MC that day because it was after DD#2 and she had already told the MC that she had no more contact with the OM and did not want to have to admit she had lied to the MC. So she monopolized the entire hour with discussion of the tornado.
> 
> I know my wife dealt with a lot of crud growing up. Step-father attempted or did molest her, parents both had affairs and divorced, she wound up a ward of the court. She gave away a child at 18 for adoption, first son's father physically abused her, first husband was emotionally abusive to her and the kids. So taken together she deals with a lot of baggage, but she doesn't want to talk about it. She wants to pretend everything is fine, and she is tough, but inside I see her crying as I haven't in 10 years. It's not an excuse, but perhaps the beginnings of empathy inside me where it hasn't been before.
> 
> I should also add we live in a small town (12k) in the Midwest. There are two counselors in our town, the next nearest town of any size is an hour away. Nearest big city is 3 hours away. Mental health professionals are not abundant here, to say the least.


I just caught up on all of this and must be missing something. In one post you said he lives 1200 miles away, and yet, he was/is a pastor/car salesman in your small home town. Can you clarify this?

I am with the others that talking to the original daughter that outted this to you is a good idea, even for exposure. She felt it was needed to tell you something was up, then she'll feel the need to tell others what you've uncovered.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> I also want to say again how much I appreciate all of the perspectives offered here. It's tough to know what is the right thing to do, when you have very few people you trust to ask for advice. I like the MC we are seeing, but I had the impression that we would be at this for months at least and perhaps years. Her statement last session seems to say to me that the bad stuff is behind us, I need to learn to trust my wife again, and we are able to work the rest of this out on our own. Not really the route I thought this would take 30 days post DD#2.


Trust your gut if you feel that the MC is rugsweeping. TRUST YOUR GUT.

We went to MC for 6+ months while my husband continued in his emotional affair, tra la la la la. The MC never bothered to ask if my husband was still in contact. Never really discussed the affair much at all. That was in the past, you see. I was ignorant about infidelity and didn't bother to question the MC--I mean he was the one with the credentials!

We have a new MC now who is terrific when it comes to dealing with infidelity. I know you don't have lots of options for a real-life MC, but if you can find someone with this training, this is what you need.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> I just caught up on all of this and must be missing something. In one post you said he lives 1200 miles away, and yet, he was/is a pastor/car salesman in your small home town. Can you clarify this?
> 
> I am with the others that talking to the original daughter that outted this to you is a good idea, even for exposure. She felt it was needed to tell you something was up, then she'll feel the need to tell others what you've uncovered.


We left our home town for my work 7 years ago. It is my home town to be clear, but the kids graduate high school there and we attended church there, in short we had a life. It's actually 1586 miles by Yahoo maps. My whole family save a few live there, and some go to our church. 

He lives there and is a used car salesman in my home town, but we do not live there anymore. We had been planning a visit there in December until DD#1. Needless to say the trip was cancelled, and we have not been back there since.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Link182 said:


> lol...I often say the most important thing I know how to do with a computer is buying them. This is the most time I have spent on a computer doing other than work ever. I am more the outdoor work in the garden, hunt and fish type of time spender. My first reaction is never to go look it up, it is to ask a question and open a dialogue. It makes my whole family roll their eyes too.
> 
> That is one of the things that makes me a bit leery. I have one work laptop and a personal one at home. Wife has 3 laptops and one PC. Don't hate me, I love to give the family what it is they need, and they always seem to need new computers. I have the income to do it, and up until the affair I saw no reason they could not have them. The PC is packed after the tornado, and one laptop needs a new battery so it is out of commission for now. It will become a new laptop for middle son when a new battery gets ordered, but for now it sits. She has one large laptop for gaming and pictures which are here two great loves besides being on the internet all the time. The small laptop is very small and gets taken on trips for convenience.


I put the found it on the internet as a disclaimer since I copied it from the website directly. Nothing against you.

But you haven't answered the question yet. Are you a white knight? Do you see yourself as your wife's fixer? many men fall into this trap

One month after such an enormous betrayal and your MC asks to move on and trust your wife?Maybe you should get one that is specialized in infidelity.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to but at least two VARs. One you need to put under her drivers seat and one where she is most likely to phone the OM in your house. Buy some heavy duty velcro and put one VAR under her front seat in her car. Cheaters love to use the phone while in the car and they feel they have the ultimate in privacy. This will help you if she has bought another burner phone.

Search for keyloggers on this website to find a good one. 

Don't see the purpose of a GPS unless you think she might hookup with someone in the area you now live in.

You were looking for ways to verify trust but so far I don't see that you have done anything suggested.

Good luck and prayers
Chap


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

If you let OM know about cibersex gay he might lash out at your wife, you can monitor it and leave her in the dark and later use it wisely which may let you wife drop the red colored glasses. It's risky anyway. Just and idea, probably horrible.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> But you haven't answered the question yet. Are you a white knight? Do you see yourself as your wife's fixer? many men fall into this trap


To answer honestly I would say yes, I fit that description. When we met she was struggling to support her three kids after her divorce from husband #1. He refused to pay child support and she would not go after him for it. I stepped in, and we created a life together. I often go without so that those that I care for can have what they desire. I don't do it out of nobility, just following the example of my own father I suppose.

I like a simple existence, I don't need much to be happy. In many ways I look around me and see poverty everywhere. I am not rich by any means, but as long as we have "enough", that is enough for me.

I hope that makes sense, just off the cuff.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> You were looking for ways to verify trust but so far I don't see that you have done anything suggested.
> 
> Good luck and prayers
> Chap



Thanks Chap, I haven't made any purchases yet as I came here looking for just that kind of advice. When I say I don't know much about technology, I am not exaggerating. I am the definition of a tech moron. I really wouldn't know that these things even existed except perhaps for coming here. I am doing research now.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

OK, so I received responses from the OM's two kids. I know them both from the days back in my home town church. The eldest the brother has experienced an affair is his own marriage and was skeptical but we had a pleasant dialogue. He wants a few questions answered and wants the experience to be a healing for their family as well. I respect that, with the impending death of their mother and their father's affair and subsequent denial, it has torn their family apart.

I started to exchange with the daughter who had notified me in November of the affair, but it went screwy pretty quick. She told me that she did not feel right having a dialogue about the affair, but I could send her all the materials I had and she would find the answers herself. I don't see any reason to release these things out into the world unless I am forced to. Like Pandora's box, once open it can never be shut. The materials I have can only be used to harm them both, not heal the situation. Then her husband emailed me and accused me of trying to hurt the OM and use his kids to do it. Which seems pretty silly to me, if I wanted to hurt him I can send these things to his work, his church, and dozen family members in a day or two. That line thinking really confused me. I told them both I would answer any questions that they had, but I would not send them these things.

Makes me wonder if contacting them at all was a good thing. They obviously know, perhaps it was pride to contact them at all.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The more you tell about your wife the more gloomy the situation looks. Could she be using you all this time for the money and settled for you?.

What would her financial state be if you leave her?


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> The more you tell about your wife, the likelihood what Shaggy was described the scenario to be is increasing.
> 
> What would her financial state be if you leave her?


1) I read what Shaggy wrote, but I am confused by your comment about it. I guess I am a little dense. Can you be more clear?

2) She is currently out of work after the surgery. She has worked as an admin assistant at many of the church's we attend, and is an incredibly talented cake decorator. My waistline is evidence of what this woman can do with sugar. But she would be penniless for the most part.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The sentence even confused me. I don't know how I typed that  I edited it out of shame immediately. 

What I meant was that the scenario Shaggy described is more likely after hearing some more details of your marriage.



> As for your wife. I bet the plan in her head is to continue to lie to you until she is better, and your insurance has paid for her healing, and you have provided a warm safe home, and once she is better she will dump you and run off to be with him.
> 
> She has done nothing but le and use you, and you keep uncovering it, and forgiving. You see the pattern here?


After the divorce, she was struggling financially. She had 3 kids. Enter you. Even though she wasn't into you that much, she found a good provider in you. You were even paying for your step kids while sacrificing stuff for yourself. Once the kids are gone, she no longer needed you that much, so she showed her true colors engaging in two affairs.In the mean time, you are the one taking care of her through bad health, surgeries and paying through your insurance. I am assuming that she will have little money once you divorce her and hence begs and pleads every time you threaten to divorce her.

There was another poster whose wife had 4-5 stepkids. She too was in a bad financial shape when the poster met her. She waited until he adopted the kids and started cheating on him. Now he has to pay the alimony and child support even if he divorces her.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Link182 said:


> OK, so I received responses from the OM's two kids. I know them both from the days back in my home town church. The eldest the brother has experienced an affair is his own marriage and was skeptical but we had a pleasant dialogue. He wants a few questions answered and wants the experience to be a healing for their family as well. I respect that, with the impending death of their mother and their father's affair and subsequent denial, it has torn their family apart.
> 
> I started to exchange with the daughter who had notified me in November of the affair, but it went screwy pretty quick. She told me that she did not feel right having a dialogue about the affair, but I could send her all the materials I had and she would find the answers herself. I don't see any reason to release these things out into the world unless I am forced to. Like Pandora's box, once open it can never be shut. The materials I have can only be used to harm them both, not heal the situation. Then her husband emailed me and accused me of trying to hurt the OM and use his kids to do it. Which seems pretty silly to me, if I wanted to hurt him I can send these things to his work, his church, and dozen family members in a day or two. That line thinking really confused me. I told them both I would answer any questions that they had, but I would not send them these things.
> 
> Makes me wonder if contacting them at all was a good thing. They obviously know, perhaps it was pride to contact them at all.


They sound like they're in denial. It's strange that the person who first told you about the affair doesn't believe that they are still in contact. Bizarre, actually. It sounds like because of their mother's condition, they are in a lot of pain and grief?

One possibility would be to send them just one thing to prove contact since they thought it had broken off. Not sure what that would be--one printed email, something. But I agree, do not release all the materials to them. That wouldn't persuade them and who knows what they would do with the information.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Link182 said:


> OK, so I received responses from the OM's two kids. I know them both from the days back in my home town church. The eldest the brother has experienced an affair is his own marriage and was skeptical but we had a pleasant dialogue. He wants a few questions answered and wants the experience to be a healing for their family as well. I respect that, with the impending death of their mother and their father's affair and subsequent denial, it has torn their family apart.
> 
> I started to exchange with the daughter who had notified me in November of the affair, but it went screwy pretty quick. She told me that she did not feel right having a dialogue about the affair, but I could send her all the materials I had and she would find the answers herself. I don't see any reason to release these things out into the world unless I am forced to. Like Pandora's box, once open it can never be shut. The materials I have can only be used to harm them both, not heal the situation. Then her husband emailed me and accused me of trying to hurt the OM and use his kids to do it. Which seems pretty silly to me, if I wanted to hurt him I can send these things to his work, his church, and dozen family members in a day or two. That line thinking really confused me. I told them both I would answer any questions that they had, but I would not send them these things.
> 
> Makes me wonder if contacting them at all was a good thing. They obviously know, perhaps it was pride to contact them at all.


I can't help but feel that you're still extremely apprehensive about exposing the affair publicly. Why? By allowing your wife's actions to remain underground, I fear you're enabling her to maintain or reconnect with her affair partner.

Yes, the other man's children seem to be in denial. Particularly the daughter. Give the son (whom you said you had a pleasant conversation with) the information that you have of the affair. Tell him it isn't your intent to break up their family, but to clear the air and expose what their father and your wife have done. Have him break the news to his sister. The other man needs to be honest with them and not hide behind lies if he wants to reconnect with his kids.

And no, it is not at all like Pandora's Box. Exposing the affair publicly to your wife's friends and family (and your own) are vitally important to moving forward and reconciling. From what you have described, it seems like your wife is still pining for her lover. You have not shut the door to her affair - you're ignoring it.

She doesn't seem very remorseful, judging by her reactions whenever the other man is brought-up during marriage counseling. She hasn't yet been hit with consequences for her actions. She hasn't been forced to acknowledge the damage she has done by her peers - only you and the marriage counselor. She can go right on living as she has done in the past, with everyone she knows oblivious to her infidelity and betrayal. I feel this creates a very dangerous environment for your marriage and reconciliation - she may very well feel empowered or unchallenged if no one meets her with criticism.

Personally, I feel that she still is deeply in love with the other man. She is not emotionally ready to let him go and devote herself to you. In order to clean the slate, you need to force her to acknowledge the affair publicly, so that she cannot hide from her actions _anywhere_. I fear that hiding is exactly what she's doing at the moment.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Who does your wife respect in her life? Who does she look up to?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Link182 said:


> Thanks Chap, I haven't made any purchases yet as I came here looking for just that kind of advice. When I say I don't know much about technology, I am not exaggerating. I am the definition of a tech moron. I really wouldn't know that these things even existed except perhaps for coming here. I am doing research now.


One poster said they bought VARs from bestbuy, Olympus for $99 and that they were excellent. Heavy duty velcro from Walmart. Hopefully, you will find out how much she regrets her behavior and how much she loves you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Link182 said:


> OK, so I received responses from the OM's two kids. I know them both from the days back in my home town church. The eldest the brother has experienced an affair is his own marriage and was skeptical but we had a pleasant dialogue. He wants a few questions answered and wants the experience to be a healing for their family as well. I respect that, with the impending death of their mother and their father's affair and subsequent denial, it has torn their family apart.
> 
> I started to exchange with the daughter who had notified me in November of the affair, but it went screwy pretty quick. She told me that she did not feel right having a dialogue about the affair, but I could send her all the materials I had and she would find the answers herself. I don't see any reason to release these things out into the world unless I am forced to. Like Pandora's box, once open it can never be shut. The materials I have can only be used to harm them both, not heal the situation. Then her husband emailed me and accused me of trying to hurt the OM and use his kids to do it. Which seems pretty silly to me, if I wanted to hurt him I can send these things to his work, his church, and dozen family members in a day or two. That line thinking really confused me. I told them both I would answer any questions that they had, but I would not send them these things.
> 
> Makes me wonder if contacting them at all was a good thing. They obviously know, perhaps it was pride to contact them at all.


Give them time to digest what is going on. Did she not tell you, in the first place, about the affair?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think exposure is a one size fits all answer. In a small town, it could be counter productive to OP.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Update: I received emails back from both the daughter and the son. The daughter who has a long history of trying to destroy her father by various means requested I send her all of the evidence I collected. I told her I would not (knowing how she would love to use it) but told her I would answer any question she asked me truthfully. I know this may seem a bit lame on my part but that stuff can only harm my wife's reputation back home, and if we are truly reconciling I don't want to harm the process. I will however spread it far and wide if I find her in contact with the OM even one more time. But at present I am holding it in reserve in case of reconnect or divorce. I may owe this gal for exposing the affair, but knowing her and all of the problems she has caused in our town and church, my feeling is she would just like another opportunity to stick one to daddy, and I don't want any part of that.

The son baffled me with his response. At first he wrote me back and said he had some questions he would like answered, and empathized with me a great deal as he had went through infidelity with his own wife. He said he would think about it for a few days and get back to me. His comment was that he was disappointed that his Dad had lied to him, but it was not unexpected in his knowledge of how affair exposures go. Two days later he emailed me back and said he had changed his mind and did not want to know anything, he was more focused on his mother's impending passing from Alzheimer's and did not think he wanted to add to that.

I spoke to my wife last week regarding my low trust level with her and the internet. We discussed the phone and the computers at length. She handed over her two old iphones, and the non-functional laptop. She agreed to stay off the computer unless she was in my presence or informed me that she would be online. Whenever she is on the phone she tells me and shows me who she is texting. Whenever she leaves my presence and has the phone with her, she leaves the phone right in front of me before she goes.

I have Spectresoft software downloaded to a jump drive and waiting on opportunity to install it on her laptop(s). I have been researching the same for her windows smart phone, as well as monitoring her email and Facebook. She has another Facebook under her name on her original Facebook friends list but it has been deactivated and I cannot find an email address that will open it. That with the drop phone she purchased in December shows me how far into the fog she was, and makes me wonder right now if she is out of it totally.

She isn't hiding the phone from me anymore and has committed to leaving it in the bedroom unless she needs to use it. And for a week it has gone well. She is no longer tied to it as she was before, although truthfully since DD#2 her use of the phone had dropped off to almost nothing as well as her computer time. 

Taken together it all makes me a little confused and wondering. It seems like everyone who's life was affected by this affair just seems to want to sweep it under the rug and say let's move on and forget it even happened. I don't need it dragged out into the street, but it baffles me how his kids who were brought into this by his choice and lied to, don't seem to have any questions.

Or is it just me?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I can understand the son's outlook. He doesn't care about his father. His only concern is his mother and her illness. He might be thinking that nothing good will come out of pursuing the matter and will only add more stress.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

What I told them in my email was this. All throughout this process I have run into nothing but lies and deceit. I wished for someone all along that would just tell me the truth. Instead I had to drag the truth kicking and screaming out into the light (twice). I offered to be that person for them, nothing more. I am sure I don't know the whole truth, but I would bet I have 80% of it. I offered to share it with them and was surprised by their responses.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Sorry... 2x4. While I know this is overwhelming to you, they are watching their mother die. They have their own major trauma going on that is a lot more personal to them than your troubles. I think it is kind of heartless to try and push your infidelity agenda on them WHILE their mother dies in her bed. You’ve said enough already... let it go.

I’m actually more curious about how your wife is taking it. She betrayed that woman who is dying. That man of cloth betrayed his dying wife... What a winner. How does she see all this? Watch her carefully.... a remorseful response is she should be feeling horrible about all it and even maybe a bit pissed that this woman will die never knowing what a prick her husband was for betraying her. I know my WW would be showing very deep signs of depression at a minimum.

But watch out... She may use it as an opportunity to express condolences and start it up again too.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Racer said:


> You’ve said enough already... let it go.
> 
> But watch out... She may use it as an opportunity to express condolences and start it up again too.


@Racer, yeah I get that. The only reason I reached out to them is that I did promise the daughter that if I ever got to the bottom of it I would let them know. Meanwhile she was in and out of jail and then got married. She has a very troubled past, but none the less I figured I would keep my word. She offered her brother a person more able to see my perspective, because of his experiences in his own life.

I did know the OM wife was terminal, and because that was the hinge pin for when they were to be able to be together from all of their emails and texts I read, it did create in me a panic. But you are right, it was bad timing and little senseless on my part. I let it be as it was, I left them knowing that I know, and if they would like to I am always here.

I am watching my wife very carefully right now. It's hard to gauge since my wife has always been 1) a little closed off emotionally as is most of her family 2) pretty cut and dried once she has made her mind up on things. I know her well enough even after this to know that even though she engaged in things that are widely inappropriate and hurtful, she still operates fundamentally the same way. When I say she wants to rug sweep, I don't just mean about the affair, I mean it's a way of life for her. She will rant and rave about a thing, and then once her mind is made up...boom. She doesn't want to discuss it or relive it again. I hold grudges, but my wife is better than even I can aspire to. So in seeing that her behavior is returning to normal, her daily happiness level is going back up, her efforts to contact me daily to tell me things and share things with me are up, it seems to me in the old manner I had of trusting her that it is over. But my trust level with her is at an all time low. I have told her that our marriage and my trust of her in it should be her highest priority, and that if she wants them she must take it as a priority to rebuild them, not wait for me to lead but take charge of it herself. She seems to be, but the ideas and experiences shared here make me wary of how typical her actions were before DD, after, and up until DD 2.


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

Update:

I know there is at least part of this story that will rankle a few, but I have received valued advice here and have taken or not taken it as my head and my heart led me to do.

July 4th was our 10 year anniversary. Being a little over 60-ish days after DD#2, as you can imagine I had mixed emotions, and more than a bit of painting on a happy face. As suggested I killed the idea of renewing our wedding vows, wife was not unhappy but seemed a bit confused about it. I told her it was too soon after the affair and that from my point of view my vows were intact. So I told her what I wanted was a private time for the two of us, where we could share more about what our marriage meant to us now, and where we were going in the future.

We spent the week at her parents lake house, with the in-laws. Our kids are all in their 20's so their lives were too busy to go with us. My wife shocked me a bit, as she usually doesn't go this deep emotionally with me or anyone else. She bought me a new wedding band I had expressed interest in some time back. She took off my old band and asked me to accept this new one, as the promise she made with the original had been broken by her, and she wanted to make me a new promise with the new band when I was ready to accept it and believe her that she meant it. 

We spent lots of time doing things we both enjoy at the lake. But one subject that came up repeatedly was a "girls cruise" she takes every year with her mother (late 60's) and many of her canasta / bridge club friends. Not exactly the partying crowd as many of them are pushing 70's and 80's in age, but none the less travel away and without me. 

On the drive home I told her we should discuss it, because I was not inclined to let her go anywhere without me just yet, even though the trip is not until February. The discussion evolved into a lot of tears on her part, comments about the remorse and guilt she felt at betraying my trust, and having to be "babysat" constantly. She expressed to me that she was doing everything she could think of to let me know how much she loved me, how much she was sorry for betraying our life and our love, and how much having that trust back in our marriage meant to her. 

The discussion turned to the affair(s). I asked her if she wanted to fill me in on anything she had not told me or had previously omitted or glossed over, whether for fear of hurting me or simply to hide the truth from me. She started crying a lot and I could tell there was more, I just couldn't put my finger on it. I pulled out at a rest stop to smoke, and after much crying in the car she came out to talk. I continued to ask her some of the small things I had written off like a Facebook private message from a former boyfriend of her's the father of our oldest that was deleted two months ago. I noticed it, but at the time was leery about reading it. I also told her that I noticed he had left her a voice mail message on her old phone about the same time period, the week our house was hit in the tornado. I told her that I wasn't afraid of the truth, just afraid of living a lie with her, and that anymore lies would result in the divorce I promised her after DD2. She looked at me and told me that he had written her to let her know he still had feelings for her and that he wanted to know if she still had feelings for him. She told me that she had written back to him telling him we were together and that was it, and deleted the message. This is before the spyware went in on her computer so I have nothing more to go on. She says that they would talk sometimes, and that he had come to a big city 3 hours away years ago, but she had researched his hotel but never went to see him. He is married with children.

She assured me, and I have seen some of their old love letters from the 80's to confirm, that he physically abused her and she has no interest in him at all. He would never admit to being our son's father, even though they were in a long term monogamous relationship, and never paid child support after he found our she was pregnant and dumped her. She claims that it caught her by surprise and so she didn't really know if or how to discuss it with me. I imagine she was sending out the vibe and he picked up on it or something.

We rehashed some of the the things about her affair with the pastor and the online tryst she carried on a couple of times with another former boyfriend, nothing I didn't already know. Just trying to provide the atmosphere that at some point I would wish she could just paint the picture for me with no lies. I feel that she has made great strides there, but I know there is more. I am just not sure 1) if it is anything of any great importance 2) anything worth worrying about. I finished by telling her that now that I know, we will not survive if there is this place we cannot go in our relationship. We will not survive with secrets in our past or present. I have spent more time in prayer over this than I have care to admit, most ashamedly because i have never went to God with anything as much as this. That hurts to admit, living most of my life as a Christian. I feel like God put me here in this life to create a life for this woman and our three amazing kids. And as much as it hurts from time to time, this recovery thing is almost as hard as the discovery thing. 

I have stopped short of telling my wife about this place, mostly because I think she would be mortified to know that our life is out here on the internet and so is her big secret. But I have shared with her all of the insight I have gained here about truth, her stages of coming out of the fog, seeing the OM and the chances of success with him for what they truly are, and she has been in agreement with most all of it, some parts needed some discussion to break down the walls.

She seems truly happy here with me again, and we are spending more time together than anytime perhaps except just after we were married. I am watching her for any signs, email and Facebook are open to me. Nothing even remotely interesting in those or on the spyware reports. I have not had an opportunity to put the spyware on her smart phone, but she leaves it in the bedroom or in plain sight at all times, and no longer carried it anywhere if I am not going with her. 

Not sure there is much else, and here's hoping everyone had a great holiday week.

Peace


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

What kind of marriage do you really have if you keep her on a short chain. Sounds like your doing all the work, how many Ddays does she get? 
I'll bet you she is just being extra careful right now. I gave my wife enough rope so if she's gonna cheat again let her. I think caging an animal will make them turn on you, same thing goes for our WW's. Sorry for not telling you what you wanna hear but that's what alot of BS on this site do. There is some great advise but don't just listen to the ones that tell you what you wanna hear. Alot of us are in complete denial, at times I am too because I don't want to have to start over at my age. By the way this is just my opinion, I'm also a bit angry today because my WW didn't let me check her phone before leaving for work this morning, she said she was running late. Maybe she was but I know deep down the trust is gone and I don't think it can ever be fully restored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Link182 (May 25, 2012)

completely_lost said:


> What kind of marriage do you really have if you keep her on a short chain. Sounds like your doing all the work, how many Ddays does she get?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In reality, once a spouse has done this to you (me), that complete trust I had for her is gone and can never be regained. The marriage that we had is lost and can never be regained, for the most part what it had become I don't think either one of us want it. But where I came to was a choice, stay or go. Accept that my wife is imperfect and had made a tragic mistake and hurt me the way no one else could, or leave and try for a fresh start with someone else. I suppose the way I look at it is this, the past can't hurt us as long as it is pulled out into the light and exposed. As long as there is nothing more in the present and no contact is maintained I am willing to forgive and help her work through the remains of our marriage and build a new one with her. Rather than see the pattern of abuse and chaos that ruled her and the kids early life continue. But I believe in and have no problem with "trust but verify". Do I consider this latest revelation a "DD3"? No, I have found nothing to point me in that direction. I think she was sending out the vibe and this old boyfriend bit. But that was in the past, and she handled it, or so she says. 

Yes I may be doing the heavy lifting right now, and perhaps I am just fencing her in. But if her remorse for what she did is true remorse there will be nothing further. I have already set the bar for divorce if I see anything remotely suspicious and she knows it. The ball is in her court, and so far what I see is a person emerging from the fog and taking responsibility for her actions. It may not be in the way I would want her to, but she is doing it, and so I am not going to squash that effort. Did I think to get all the responses for the positive for what I am trying to lead us through? No, heck 6 months ago I would have called me a crazy fool. But this is that path I have chosen, sort of half way in between extremes I hope.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

So aside from you watching her like a hawk, which actually, doesn't work---CUZ YOU NEVER KNEW A THING ABOUT HER CONTACT WITH THE FATHER OF HER VERY FIRST CHILD, what else is new and exciting????

You slid the admission of contact with another male, under the rug----Didn't she have a boundary in place, I guess there was, but you are choosing to ignore her indescretions, again., and there seem to be no consequences.

Your wife seemingly has just moved right back into her lifestyle AS IF NOTHING EVER HAPPENED. I guess that's what you want, cuz she certainly seems to be suffering no accountability/consequences.

Look, this is your life, you obviously get to choose, what you will do with your life, you arn't that far away from your golden years, where you will spend, all of your time with your wife, cuz basically that's the way it is, is this who you wanna do that with???

Your wife is still being selfish, she did whatever she did with her X---you never knew ( recent e-mail contact)---she wants to go on a cruise----for her even to ask, just short months after having been "outed", is ludicrous----it may be next feb., but it is her alone, with other available men, for however long, in a highly charged, basically romantic atmosphere---Do you honestly think the 70/80 yr old ladies, are gonna care what she does, at night---for her to even ask, should have gotten a strong response from you

So she would come back and say you are controlling, not allowing her any fun----your answer---NOT WITH YOUR TRACK RECORD, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO FILE FOR D.

8 months from now, when this cruise comes up, you will be a lot calmer, things will have normalized, cuz they have basically been swept under the rug, and she will feel much easier, about what she does---if she has a penchant for other men, as she seems to, she will be looking around---alcohol will be flowing, there will be dancing, games, fun, and most of all OTHER MEN---and where will you be---oh, your home, letting her go----but then again--its your life, and your wife.

One last thing, why is she staying with you, is it cuz, she knows she can;t make it on her own, if she leaves, or you D., her, or is it truly cuz she loves you-----but that last statement can't be true, can it---for she has replaced you with at least 2 men, that you know of in the last couple of years alone----for her to say I love you, but tear up, when the lover she really wants, is mentioned, is pure BS.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Have you asked her if she will sign a postnuptial agreement?

Why not go see a lawyer and find out if such a document can protect you if she were to cheat again and you were forced to divorce her? Can't hurt.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Link,

I commend you for trying to reconcile with your wife. Its no secret that I am very pro-marriage. And I also don't have any problems with you maintaining the verification process for some time to come. The truth is that after R my wife and I still check each other's computers, phones etc regularly although since its been 20 years. Its not done with investigation in mind. Its more adhering to the philosophy that there really is no privacy in a marriage. I also don't see a problem with telling her you don't feel comfortable with her going on a trip without you. She has demonstrated that she cannot be trusted and until she earns back that privilege it should not be extended to her.

My issue with what you've posted is not that she was contacted by an ex. Not that she replied to that ex. My issue is that she hid that contact from you. Understand that affairs occur in secrecy. The WS does all they can to hide the affair from everyone of consequence. They develop a mindset of secrecy that can last beyond when the affair actually ends. It seems to me that your wife still has that need for secrecy. Until that is purged from her system I don't see how you can have a chance for long term successful reconciliation.


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