# how do/will I know



## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Had a great Saturday with children. Sunday, woke up and remained in a funk the entire day, even though I was with the children.

No "family time" this weekend. Still, broken after the exchange in the late afternoon.

Am I on the road to recovery? What are signs that I'll know? Because, I am desperate.

All of the thoughts, wonders, etc. All of the what ifs, etc. I am fine one day, or part of the day, and then miserable the next. A few tears one day and then breakdown sobbing the next. 

Day after day. After day. In the meantime, there are other commitments.

Thanks for any feedback!


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## sadwithouthim (Dec 8, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Had a great Saturday with children. Sunday, woke up and remained in a funk the entire day, even though I was with the children.
> 
> No "family time" this weekend. Still, broken after the exchange in the late afternoon.
> 
> ...


If you don't mind me throwing a Christian perspective at you then I will share a piece that was sent to me from divorce care. I think it really sums up the recovery process.

Anytime you do not feel anger, blame, self-pity, bitterness, or resentment, then you are experiencing recovery. If you think of your former spouse less often than you used to, this is a sign of recovery. If you are living in the present more than you are dwelling in the past, you are recovering. When you look back and see where you have been, that means you are in a position of recovery. The peace of Christ indicates recovery.

"I look back and think, 'Wow, I'm not in that hole anymore. I'm almost to the rim. I'm peeping over the edge here,'" says Howard.

"You have peace," says Dr. Robert Abarno. "That's the way you know you are in the center of God's directive will. God's peace passes all understanding."

Gary Richmond shares a story that a friend told him: "Gary, last night I was watching television, and I laughed right out loud. I said to myself, How can I be laughing? I'm being divorced." Gary's response to his friend was "This is a sign that you're healing. Let it happen."

Recovery does not mean you will not feel pain again. Painful moments will occur unexpectedly for several years. Be aware that this will happen, and when those painful moments hit you, be prepared to deal with them by countering them with prayer, Scripture, positive memories, or reaffirming statements. You can always look back and see how far you've come.




"Then maidens will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow" (Jeremiah 31:13).

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

It is a sign of recovery.... but these bipolar cycles are little bit psychological and a little bit chemical. You will see things that remind you of the pain just as you will find emotional triggrs for happiness. The best thing you can do is distract yourself and find something to be happy about instead.... you're choosing to not let yourself hurt. On the other hand you'll find it hard to be emotionally well the day after you've been in one emotional extreme or the other. This is do to endorphins being taxed and replenished..... whenever you're extremely apathetic this is usually the case. 

If you start getting into an extreme funk you can't shake then don't hesitate to see a doctor, but usually there is a 48-72hr time frame where you can work through things that are bothering you at which times it actually benifits you to stay up and get every last bit worked through so you can sleep better. Depression does not stop the moment you go to sleep and taxes your brain even more. Unresolved issues can ruin a good night of sleep.

I know when I found out about my wife's motives to D were from a long stranding EA I was an emotional wreck and suicidal. BUT now I can look at her with great pitty for what a quitter she was and how she will one day regret this decision when her plans don't work out. It may not look like it now by simply working through your issues here instead of talking to no nothing friends or hitting the bottle you will come out better in the end. And don't forget you're not the only one in your relationship that's hurting. Your W has to tell herself her decision was the right thing to do and deal with her children's grief daily.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> It is a sign of recovery.... but these bipolar cycles are little bit psychological and a little bit chemical. You will see things that remind you of the pain just as you will find emotional triggrs for happiness. The best thing you can do is distract yourself and find something to be happy about instead.... you're choosing to not let yourself hurt. On the other hand you'll find it hard to be emotionally well the day after you've been in one emotional extreme or the other. This is do to endorphins being taxed and replenished..... whenever you're extremely apathetic this is usually the case.
> 
> If you start getting into an extreme funk you can't shake then don't hesitate to see a doctor, but usually there is a 48-72hr time frame where you can work through things that are bothering you at which times it actually benifits you to stay up and get every last bit worked through so you can sleep better. Depression does not stop the moment you go to sleep and taxes your brain even more. Unresolved issues can ruin a good night of sleep.
> 
> I know when I found out about my wife's motives to D were from a long stranding EA I was an emotional wreck and suicidal. BUT now I can look at her with great pitty for what a quitter she was and how she will one day regret this decision when her plans don't work out. It may not look like it now by simply working through your issues here instead of talking to no nothing friends or hitting the bottle you will come out better in the end. And don't forget you're not the only one in your relationship that's hurting. Your W has to tell herself her decision was the right thing to do and deal with her children's grief daily.



Thanks for the reply. 

Maybe it is normal, but a lot of times I don't know if I'll make it through this. The constant hurting seems to always be there.

I learned about my wife hurting as well. It was something I never thought about. It may be different in that she has to constantly assure herself that leaving me, or to stop loving me is in her best interests and will benefit her, our children, me, etc. 

What affects me the most is routine. I'm a planner and constantly rely on plans to keep me steady and calm. Any sudden change or deviation throws me, especially at this time. And, the time to settle down after an extended period with the children is rough because I have to reprocess me being alone, separated, not having access to my wife or children for a few days, etc. On my own. 

It's a matter of processing the transitions from when I have the children to when I don't, intermixed with my emotions for my wife, our situation, the uncertain future, all the while being alone.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Your wife had more time to get over the hurt while she was pulling away and preparing for divorce, but as they all soon find out it hurts just as much going into a D as it does leaving one. But this doesn't mean she has stopped lovng you.... just in a different show of affection. As I like to point out, it is the absence of hate that shows she still cares. The fact that she didn't make some BS claims to keep your kids away from you, and I'm betting she still talks to you about the children, shows she still cares to some extent. So long as there isn't a restraining order you still have another chance in a few years.

For now you have to show her, your kids, and yourself you are mature enough to accept her decision to divorce and actually become better because of it. Think about it.... you've broken the bonds of codpndency and no longer need her to feel happy (for the most part), and you're free to be with other people without seeking her approval. If you're lonely then start getting out there and platonically dating other women. You've got the mental training from years of marriage that saves women the hassle, you already know every game women can play, and you're both willing to commit and great with children. If you ask me a divorced woman with her own history looking to just be treated well, and not be used for sex, is just what you're looking for.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Your wife had more time to get over the hurt while she was pulling away and preparing for divorce, but as they all soon find out it hurts just as much going into a D as it does leaving one. But this doesn't mean she has stopped lovng you.... just in a different show of affection. As I like to point out, it is the absence of hate that shows she still cares. The fact that she didn't make some BS claims to keep your kids away from you, and I'm betting she still talks to you about the children, shows she still cares to some extent. So long as there isn't a restraining order you still have another chance in a few years.
> 
> For now you have to show her, your kids, and yourself you are mature enough to accept her decision to divorce and actually become better because of it. Think about it.... you've broken the bonds of codpndency and no longer need her to feel happy (for the most part), and you're free to be with other people without seeking her approval. If you're lonely then start getting out there and platonically dating other women. You've got the mental training from years of marriage that saves women the hassle, you already know every game women can play, and you're both willing to commit and great with children. If you ask me a divorced woman with her own history looking to just be treated well, and not be used for sex, is just what you're looking for.



This is a very positive reply. I agree. I have to heal and grow personally, away from it all, rather than making any type of reconciliation my sole purpose.

In the meantime, I do appreciate the love we still have for each other. We communicate often and are around the children a lot. And, neither of us are playing games or intentionally doing things to provoke the other. We both want the best for each other (although my definition differs from hers).

I'm not ready to date, but do know that I would want to date divorced women with children as I can relate and place so much importance on family.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

You're not the only betrayed man wanting to reconcile. I too want to have another chance with my wife in the future, but that won't happen over night or any time soon. At least you now know you have more time to improve and earn her respect before you get any closer. 

What she needs to see over the next few years is that your change is consistant and you're not chasing her anymore.... you accept her decision like a man and won't pressure her anymore. I've taught dozens of guys that very same lesson in dating. You neither want her or need her but you're just happy to talk to her once in a while..... when she deserves the attention that is. If you need time an space from her then let her know without being rude and don't back out on it. She will unerstand but it sounds like that's not what either of you really want. 

As much as it pains you, you'll need to start dating again to help you stop placing her on a pedistal high above you. She is a quitter and she is no better than you. In fact you are better than her for not playing the same games and dealing with her in kindness instead of selfish honesty. If you can agree with her and "act as if" you're fine without her she'll start showing you more affection. I know my wife and I divorced hand in hand, most of that time she kept her head on my shoulder, and right after we went out on dates.... drove the pathetic OM crazy btw. I knew she was divorcing me for that idiot and I think I even saw a hickey, but time with her was better spent getting along instead of interrigating and criticizing.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> You're not the only betrayed man wanting to reconcile. I too want to have another chance with my wife in the future, but that won't happen over night or any time soon. At least you now know you have more time to improve and earn her respect before you get any closer.
> 
> What she needs to see over the next few years is that your change is consistant and you're not chasing her anymore.... you accept her decision like a man and won't pressure her anymore. I've taught dozens of guys that very same lesson in dating. You neither want her or need her but you're just happy to talk to her once in a while..... when she deserves the attention that is. If you need time an space from her then let her know without being rude and don't back out on it. She will unerstand but it sounds like that's not what either of you really want.
> 
> As much as it pains you, you'll need to start dating again to help you stop placing her on a pedistal high above you. She is a quitter and she is no better than you. In fact you are better than her for not playing the same games and dealing with her in kindness instead of selfish honesty. If you can agree with her and "act as if" you're fine without her she'll start showing you more affection. I know my wife and I divorced hand in hand, most of that time she kept her head on my shoulder, and right after we went out on dates.... drove the pathetic OM crazy btw. I knew she was divorcing me for that idiot and I think I even saw a hickey, but *time with her was better spent getting along instead of interrigating and criticizing*.


I have said it before, but I may be more in love with being married with a family, than actually in love with my wife. At least, my wife how she is today.

I took for granted the security and trust of a marriage. I didn't put an effort into it, especially the past 4 years.

Now, living alone, with responsibilities and limited resources, I've come to appreciate what we had. And, I miss all of that, along with my wife. But the home atmosphere, access to our children at any time, going home to a family, making plans, etc. is what I miss. It's what pains me. Knowing that that dynamic has changed and will change.

Getting through this is difficult enough. But, I don't need to act out of revenge or bitterness.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Jayb I'm in the same boat. One day I'm feeling good (like a new man) and with positive thoughts and then I'm feeling down especially those days I don't have my son. I've come to the realization that it will take patience to get through this. Patience with ourselves. Healing is a slow process. I suggest staying away from thing that remind you of STBXW, romantic songs are no good right now for me. Just breath, read, listen, talk, think positive.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Jayb I'm in the same boat. *One day I'm feeling good (like a new man) and with positive thoughts and then I'm feeling down especially those days I don't have my son*. I've come to the realization that it will take patience to get through this. Patience with ourselves. Healing is a slow process. I suggest staying away from thing that remind you of STBXW, romantic songs are no good right now for me. Just breath, read, listen, talk, think positive.



I do stay away from things that remind me of her. It's just the steady thoughts of how did this happen, I'm living seperatley from my wife, I can't pick up the children today, we won't be doing such and such this weekend, etc. and then realizing that I, alone want to fix me, us, our marriage, when she doesn't want to.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

I deal with similar things. In your case there was no OM, right? So in a weird way this makes it difficult for you because you don't see a very strong clear reason for her not wanting to fix things. I deal with resentment towards her for putting her relationship with family/friends of OM before our marriage and things she did during her fog right after D Day that showed me very clearly I was way down her list of priorities. 

In the end, Jayb I strongly believe nothing can erase the sour taste of a love dying than the birth of a new love. After divorce, we may find ourselves with new women who will turn our world upside down with the added tip of respect, admiration, but most importantly LOYALTY.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> I deal with similar things. In your case there was no OM, right? So in a weird way this makes it difficult for you because you don't see a very strong clear reason for her not wanting to fix things. I deal with resentment towards her for putting her relationship with family/friends of OM before our marriage and things she did during her fog right after D Day that showed me very clearly I was way down her list of priorities.
> 
> In the end, Jayb I strongly believe nothing can erase the sour taste of a love dying than the birth of a new love. After divorce, we may find ourselves with new women who will turn our world upside down with the added tip of respect, admiration, but most importantly LOYALTY.



There was no OM per se. In her last effort to convince herself she was detached from me (e.g. detachment final exam), she and OM sent each other emails and texts and planned to meet up in a few months. However, I don't think that occurred. Even if it did, there hasn't been anyone for months.

Yeah, so with all of that, I'm not being given another chance. Because she dreads any possibility of backsliding and the misery she experienced. Divorcing is a better option.

I fear the future, but at the same time, you're right---I could always trade up! And those possibilities make me feel good. It's the how I get to that point from where I am now question that is challenging.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

So there was an OM situation for you. At least an external interest in someone else on her part. Well ... it is what it is. Sometimes it's best to just put it in God's hands. Take it one day at a time. Don't feel bad for having bad days but don't allow yourself to drown in them either.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

Jayb, as usual you and I are on the same track here. I really feel for you man. I go through this too and know exactly what you are feeling.
I would just encourage you to power through it the best you can for now and you will start having more good days than bad. Also man, go see a doc. Between my therapy and the temporary meds things have gotten significantly better. I spent all day Saturday with my stbxw as a family and felt alot of what you are talking about. We get along famously and i just cannot understand why on earth we can't be together. But, Nsweet really is on point with his comments. I'm committed to being the best father I can be and everything else will fall into place. My wife has zero idea of what she wants out of life right now other than she doesn't want to be married to me. The best I can do is show her I am the wonderful man she married and that I will always be that man and even better. 

Jayb, you and I must focus on getting ourselves better. We have to for us and for our kids. OM or not, it doesn't matter. Our wives are leaving and we cannot stop it. Hold your head high for not trashing her or being a jerk. It is not who you are. Show her by your actions that you are a fundamentally changed man and be one for yourself.

Also, you and I are going to have a beer in June when I come to your area!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Am I on the road to recovery? What are signs that I'll know? Because, I am desperate.
> 
> All of the thoughts, wonders, etc. All of the what ifs, etc. I am fine one day, or part of the day, and then miserable the next. A few tears one day and then breakdown sobbing the next.


The road to recovery is a long one, and there are rough patches, even after long, smooth days moving forward. Recovery is a process and not an event, as I'm sure you know.

Some signs for me were:

Catching myself not thinking about her for hours.
Laughing out loud watching someone funny on tv/internet/books.
Making real plans, even short-term like meeting some friends, and looking forward to them.
Realizing, albeit slowly, I was much more relaxed without her, more settled and developing a stronger sense of myself.
Thinking about dating other women (huge jump for me).
Slowly becoming indifferent.
Knowing that it's ok to feel like you're taking two steps forward and one step back because even
 then you're ahead by one step.

My ex and I have very little communication. I'm doing the 180 for my personal healing, and not because I want her back. She has moved on it seems, and it with a new group of movers and shakers. From what a mutual friend tells me, it's all surface stuff and they are not true friends. Essentially, she is chasing the appearances she so dearly needs, at least in my opinion.

Part of recovery is allowing yourself to be sad. I was today when I got him and the real estate agent was here taking outside photos now that the snow is gone and grass is green. That threw me off a bit. Although I know the house is for sale (has been for 3 months), it's still a reminder that it's over.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> The road to recovery is a long one, and there are rough patches, even after long, smooth days moving forward. Recovery is a process and not an event, as I'm sure you know.
> 
> Some signs for me were:
> 
> ...



OK, maybe I am making progress. Just that it'll take a long, long time.

My interaction with my wife when we do have it is almost robotic. I'm just so guarded around her because I don't want to be hurt again. I brace myself when I see texts or emails from her because I want to avoid the hurt.

Consequently, the love feelings aren't readily there. I'm in love with the stability marriage provided. I'm now facing life from a point I never have before. I'm consciously making decisions and aware of my settings more than I have ever been. It's scary. It's off-putting.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Jayb said:


> OK, maybe I am making progress. Just that it'll take a long, long time.
> 
> My interaction with my wife when we do have it is almost robotic. I'm just so guarded around her because I don't want to be hurt again. I brace myself when I see texts or emails from her because I want to avoid the hurt.
> 
> Consequently, the love feelings aren't readily there. I'm in love with the stability marriage provided. I'm now facing life from a point I never have before. I'm consciously making decisions and aware of my settings more than I have ever been. It's scary. It's off-putting.


I braced myself as well at first. Not I am slowly moving toward indifference, with the occasional backslide. Not worrying about this and am just accepting it as part of the process.

Another sign I was moving on was the realization I was missing the better parts of the relationship but not the day-to-day. The companionship, familiarity, the dozens of endearing things about my ex... but hey, I still vividly remember feeling alone in the same room with her.

I miss the highlight reel and not the main attraction. 

Moving forward is definitely a jarring feeling, but haven't you noticed your progress week-to-week and especially month-to-month? That's a sign a lof of good things are happening for you... you're getting into touch with yourself again, finding out what makes you tick, and getting stronger. That's the point anyway, no matter what happens down the road with your stbxw. If you're stronger you'll be better off no matter what the outcome.


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## gear1903 (Apr 2, 2012)

jayb, 

i'm right there with you again. i'll go through spells of not really thinking about her and looking forward to certain plans w/ friends, but after hanging out w/ folks, i come back to an empty home and it's back to reality. 

yesterday, i had a dream where she told me she wanted to stay with me and she was sorry for all the hurt. waking up from that set me back a bit... everyday is a couple steps forward, a couple steps back...canguy, i wouldn't say i'm 2 forward, 1 back yet, but at least not 1 forward, 2 back either... progress is progress i guess.

are you guys physically separated, legally separated, divorced?


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I am both physically and legally separated from my ex (4.5 months now). At the beginning of March I asked if she was still unsure about us. She said, "don't know - still undecided". 

I never asked her again.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

physically separated almost 10 months.

I am curious how she (wife) handles this on her end. Because, it eats at me. But, how does she get through this knowing that she quit, she won't work with me, she just wants out? 

How can our spouses be so cool, calm, collected when telling us they don't love us, don't want to be married to us, or even, run to some other man's arms?

Meanwhile, we self-reflect and talk about taking steps forward and backward.


Sometimes I feel like I am taking one step forward, and then one step back. Over and over.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

> I am curious how she (wife) handles this on her end. Because, it eats at me. But, how does she get through this knowing that she quit, she won't work with me, she just wants out?


After 10 months, maybe she has nothing left to handle. If she's like my ex, she's done. _Fini._



> How can our spouses be so cool, calm, collected when telling us they don't love us, don't want to be married to us, or even, run to some other man's arms?


I've read on TAM and elsewhere that most women will leave a marriage only after long and careful consideration, and/or if another man is in the picture. Maybe she has slowly fallen out of love where nothing is left, but your pain. 

I write this not to dig at your wound, but to awaken you to the possibility you're pining over something that simply cannot and will never be. Make sense?

We might never know if our exes have regret, wonder about us, wish to reconcile, etc. On my journey, I still have my moments when I wish she would come back. There are moments when it hurts... but it passes. 



> Meanwhile, we self-reflect and talk about taking steps forward and backward.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I am taking one step forward, and then one step back. Over and over.


In that case you need to do something to break the cycle. Are you exercising and working on yourself? Taking up hobbies? Meeting new people and/or renewing friendships? Taking a step out of your comfort zone? It's all part of it. If you really feel that frozen after 10 months, then you need to shake things up.


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## gear1903 (Apr 2, 2012)

that's exactly it. they're calm/collected because they've had a couple years to cope with it without being by themselves and convinced themselves so clearly that this is not what they want that by the time they hit us w/ the news, they have gone through the full cycle that we are now trying to get through (alone) in a compressed time period.

now i'm not saying that what they went through was easy or belittling that in any way, i'm just trying to explain why it may seem the leaving spouse is 'fine'. 

are they really 'fine'? i'm sure there is hurt and pain on their side as well.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

gear1903 said:


> are they really 'fine'? i'm sure there is hurt and pain on their side as well.


Mine claimed she felt hurt seeing me hurt, but that was it. I don't believe she is allowing herself to feel pain, as she is caught up in the whirlwind of appearances, the right people and her career. I wish her the very best in her unauthentic life.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

gear1903 said:


> that's exactly it. *they're calm/collected because they've had a couple years to cope with it without being by themselves and convinced themselves so clearly that this is not what they want that by the time they hit us w/ the news, they have gone through the full cycle that we are now trying to get through (alone) in a compressed time period.*
> now i'm not saying that what they went through was easy or belittling that in any way, i'm just trying to explain why it may seem the leaving spouse is 'fine'.
> 
> are they really 'fine'? i'm sure there is hurt and pain on their side as well.


This is it! Now, she hurts at seeing me hurt, but reassures me that there are far better women who deserve me. I'm like, wtf? Still shocked. She wants to help me get through unloving her. Again, I'm ?????????

Though it's been almost 10 months, 6 of those was under daily drinking and constantly mad or hurt. Now, I'm going through the actual processing.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

She's disqualifying herself hoping you'll get the message and push her away so she can feel like none of this is her fault. Again it's her avoiding responsibility. You wanna mess her plans up? Just agree with her 100% and say "yeah, you're right..." and then go on about some of the women you've met who treat you better and act like it's no big deal. BTW the same psychology works for basically everything she could throw at you. Just say "You're right" in one way or another and put a good spin on things.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> She's disqualifying herself hoping you'll get the message and push her away so she can feel like none of this is her fault. Again it's her avoiding responsibility. You wanna mess her plans up? Just agree with her 100% and say "yeah, you're right..." and then go on about some of the women you've met who treat you better and act like it's no big deal. BTW the same psychology works for basically everything she could throw at you. Just say "You're right" in one way or another and put a good spin on things.


Soon after we separated, she told me she just wished I'd find someone to be happy with. I said it was her and the look on her face was memorable.

A month later (I think, it's all a blur), she said she noticed on my fb profile that I was interested in women and found out that I had joined match.com. I told her I was just doing what she wanted.

That was before I filed for D. Before things got contentious. Back when I had a better chance than I do now.


It will be an ultra shock to either as soon as one of us announces "another partner," aka dating, etc.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

My wife did the same thing..... EXACT same behavior.

She is just trying to manipulate you to keep you as a back up option when things don't work out with the OM. Reject her and find someone that makes you happy..... if you reassure her that you'll always be there for her she will lose respect for you and keep coming back and leaving multiple times. Also chances are things aren't great with the OM or else she woudn't care if you dated or dropped dead. Keep agreeing with her that divorce is the best option for both of you to be happy, and act as if you're happier she's gone..... she'll call you up crying in no time. This active-disinterest and mental judo NEVER fail!


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> My wife did the same thing..... EXACT same behavior.
> 
> She is just trying to manipulate you to keep you as a back up option when things don't work out with the OM. Reject her and find someone that makes you happy..... if you reassure her that you'll always be there for her she will lose respect for you and keep coming back and leaving multiple times. Also chances are things aren't great with the OM or else she woudn't care if you dated or dropped dead. Keep agreeing with her that divorce is the best option for both of you to be happy, and act as if you're happier she's gone..... she'll call you up crying in no time. This active-disinterest and mental judo NEVER fail!



Only thing is, there is no OM! That was a one-time EA last summer. I have done all of the verifications several times. I just haven't posted the whole story here.

Right now, she said she wants to be by herself and enjoy her independence, without the associated misery of the past 3 years of our marriage. 

Her reaction with me at the time was shock in that I was so willing, so quickly to move on (even though most of it was "acting if").

I'm not strong enough to do the full-on act as if (and really not mean it). Also, I just don't want to play any games if there is no chance at reconciliation. We interact with each other and the children too much to fool around with any mental-judo.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Unhappy2011 said:


> as someone who ended it, I can attest it was no easy deal. There was lots of sleepless nights leading up to it, lots of pain after and tears on my part.
> 
> It hurt to do it.
> 
> ...



I'm sure. My wife's hair was falling out for months. I had no clue what was actually going on until later. 

Can I ask?

If you were going through this agony and your spouse was up to changing, improving, or doing anything to work on the marriage, would you push away faster (out of guilt, regret, etc.) or would you be willing to give another chance (especially if young children were involved)?

My wife said she fears what would happen in a year or 2 if things improved and then something happened that would cause us/her/me to return to the way things were in the height of the misery. She just couldn't provide enough spark to get over this even though she said she'd be willing to try again if those feelings returned to her.


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## njdad (Mar 29, 2012)

Jayb said:


> My wife said she fears what would happen in a year or 2 if things improved and then something happened that would cause us/her/me to return to the way things were in the height of the misery. She just couldn't provide enough spark to get over this even though she said she'd be willing to try again if those feelings returned to her.


This is what kills me -- not trying for fear of the future. That's just b.s. You could get hit by a car this afternoon, contract cancer, choke on a grape, someone else could die or get seriously ill, lose your job, etc. Either you want to try or you don't. Period. All of this other nonsense is a crutch.


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## sadwithouthim (Dec 8, 2011)

njdad said:


> This is what kills me -- not trying for fear of the future. That's just b.s. You could get hit by a car this afternoon, contract cancer, choke on a grape, someone else could die or get seriously ill, lose your job, etc. Either you want to try or you don't. Period. All of this other nonsense is a crutch.


I agree. Its taking the easy way out. Just a bunch of BS. I do believe this is my husbands thought process. Its just the coward way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

AS far as not being willing to try out of fear, our MC said that when we decided to get married, neither thought that we would get divorced several years later. We just committed and did it.

And for every reason there is to fear a particular outcome, there is an opposite reason. What if things become so much better, we forge an even stronger relationship, we get closer, etc.

It's just an excuse to avoid facing the hard decision and assuming responsibility.


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## gear1903 (Apr 2, 2012)

agree. there is so much unknown whether they decide to stay and see if you can change or whether they go on their own. why not give a shot to a relationship that had so much going for it (i don't know if that was the case for all the situations on this thread, but my stbxw admitted that there were alot of things that worked for us and she was definitely happy much of the time)?? it is a coward's way out and a way to ease my stbxw's guilt, thinking she is 'saving' me from potential greater hurt in the future. but what greater hurt is there than ending something w/o giving it every chance to succeed??


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## njdad (Mar 29, 2012)

Relationships are some of the most complicated things in life, but you know what? Sometimes we make them complicated. It really just comes down to a choice -- yes or no? try or don't try? hope or fear? That's it. A single step at a time. It really is just like any other choice -- do I get up and exercise this morning? should I quit smoking? do I eat that donut? spend that money that I don't have? be kind to those around me? Whatever it is. 

You may have setbacks. You may have to force yourself to do it. It is going to be hard. And life will certainly throw us more curveballs along the way. But that is the price of hope and success and happiness and love. 

That's what all of this has shown me. I'm mad at my wife for what she has done and continues to do. But I won't give up on hope. If not with and for her, then for me.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Jayb said:


> I'm sure. My wife's hair was falling out for months. I had no clue what was actually going on until later.
> 
> 
> My wife said she fears what would happen i*n a year or 2 if things improved and then something happened that would cause us/her/me to return to the way things were in the height of the misery. * She just couldn't provide enough spark to get over this even though she said she'd be willing to try again if those feelings returned to her.


My stbxh had said the same thing. But I am at the point where if he came begging back to me I wouldn't take him. I would have 2 months ago, but I no longer respect or trust him.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

njdad said:


> Relationships are some of the most complicated things in life, but you know what? Sometimes we make them complicated. It really just comes down to a choice -- yes or no? try or don't try? hope or fear? That's it. A single step at a time. It really is just like any other choice -- do I get up and exercise this morning? should I quit smoking? do I eat that donut? spend that money that I don't have? be kind to those around me? Whatever it is.
> 
> You may have setbacks. You may have to force yourself to do it. It is going to be hard. And life will certainly throw us more curveballs along the way. But that is the price of hope and success and happiness and love.
> 
> That's what all of this has shown me. I'm mad at my wife for what she has done and continues to do. But I won't give up on hope. If not with and for her, then for me.


Jay your counselor is so right. 

NJdad,
you are dead on here too... It's a choice. We can choose to be happy. We can choose to move on. We may not have had control of the situation for months but we can take control of our feelings and what we do with them/how and who we spend it on.Thanks for reminding me of this. I was down from Sunday night (because I had such a good Saturday night) I guess I needed to come down.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> My stbxh had said the same thing. But I am at the point where if he came begging back to me I wouldn't take him. I would have 2 months ago, but I no longer respect or trust him.


Mama, I am glad you realize that now. You have made such tremendous progress.

The big difference between our spouses is that mine is still around often, due to children and making it tolerable for them. In addition, both of us aren't playing any kind of games with money, time, other people, etc.

So, if you struggled so long with accepting the finalty of your situation, even though your spouse did many dumb things, imagine how I am struggling, with my wife who doesn't treat me terribly.

It's not as though I can lose respect for my wife and be done with her. I'm disappointed in the decisions she's making or has made, but, I'm also disappointed in myself.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a question about happiness. For few years in our marriage, I, personally wasn't happy.

Now, I'm not happy, due to this situation.

How do I obtain a personal happiness, while at the same time, go through this difficult ending of a marriage?

How can I be happy at a time like this?


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Personal development and fullfillment, Jayb? There must be things you hope to accomplish individually, work on gettting there. Time spent with STBXW because of children is a big problem. Yesterday I spend some time with son and STBXW because son was a little sick and it got me into a bad mental state, feeling sad, like I could have done more, thinking maybe she could change. God ... why so many doubts and self-inducing guilt, blame tendencies.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Personal development and fullfillment, Jayb? There must be things you hope to accomplish individually, work on gettting there. Time spent with STBXW because of children is a big problem. Yesterday I spend some time with son and STBXW because son was a little sick and it got me into a *bad mental state, feeling sad, like I could have done more, thinking maybe she could change. God ... why so many doubts and self-inducing guilt, blame tendencies*.


I don't know. At the moment, I'm looking at it like this: Say I were on a date and was asked what I like to do, what makes me happy, etc. All that's in my mind is my current mental state. I'm not happy. I'm not at the point where I'm positive and give off those vibes and energy.

I know I'm not at a place to date, but I was just thinking.

I have those same feelings, but, what I feel most, is missing those times when I thought the marriage was healthy and the future opportunities based off then. I compare where we were to where we are now and feel bad for all involved, especially our children.

It's not so much me missing my wife. I miss the way she used to be. I miss the way she respected me. Now, she is someone different.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Jayb said:


> Mama, I am glad you realize that now. You have made such tremendous progress.
> 
> The big difference between our spouses is that mine is still around often, due to children and making it tolerable for them. In addition, both of us aren't playing any kind of games with money, time, other people, etc.
> 
> ...


So true. It just doesn't seem right does it?


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Jayb said:


> I have a question about happiness. For few years in our marriage, I, personally wasn't happy.
> 
> Now, I'm not happy, due to this situation.
> 
> ...


I have been working on that too. I have started to find happiness in little things... smiles from men/women/strangers, quiet evening w/ the kids, just little things. I have noticed I am not as down as I have been. I don't know if I am always happy but I am more up then down these days. He has had way too much control over me and my emotions. I won't give him any more opportunities. Be happy w/ what you can do and accomplish. Be happy that you all are still having a decent/civil relationship (it takes two and you all are handling it well). 

I have tried to focus on the positives. I forgot that in the last 2 days and may have screwed up a new friendship  Happy is a much more attractive quality.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Jayb: Looks like we are stage now. After I was doing quite good and feeling positive about the future today I find myself missing what we had and feeling bad for my son that it has come to this. You are not ready to date right now (neither am I) because we have not healed yet. It's a slow process. You have to get up and do stuff though -- it will only help you heal faster.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> Jayb: Looks like we are stage now. After I was doing quite good and feeling positive about the future today I find myself missing what we had and feeling bad for my son that it has come to this. You are not ready to date right now (neither am I) because we have not healed yet. It's a slow process. You have to get up and do stuff though -- it will only help you heal faster.


Sometimes, I feel adrift. It's hard to focus at work, I come home and just don't know, etc.

Maybe I need to inventory where I am now and consider the little things. Maybe realizing that I'm at a different place than I was a year, 6 months ago, can make me happier. 

But, when you advise to get up and do stuff, what do you mean?

I work M-F. I exercise 3-4 times a week. I go out socially 1-2 times a week. I talk/email friends, family, acquaintances a lot. Actively looking at churches. Meeting someone for lunch tomorrow. 

Now, I have to focus on the boring stuff. Getting groceries today. Laundry needs put away. Have to clean up place. And, lately, I have avoided those mundane chores.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

You have a very active life right now. In your case then I suggest taking on a project, something you have been wanting to do for some time. Maybe a passion of yours writing, taking pictures, painting. Something that requires a lot of attention, commitment and is fun too.


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