# I want to head butt a concrete wall!!!!



## jaghf221 (Jul 15, 2014)

For several years now I have been trying to get my wife to work with me to follow a Dave Ramsey type budget in efforts to create a windfall and prepare for retirement. We are 38 and 37 years old and are parents of three daughters 15,13,7. Our average income is just over $160k and we have barely have enough money saved to survive for one month if we had to! I have begged her to sit down with me to develop an operating budget that we can both live with that will be long term sustainable. I recently changed my withholdings to single and 0 dependents and started putting the max amount in my 401k. This is sort of a forced savings plan. This decision angered her but she will never sit down to discuss finances so I am forced to do it on my own. She never wants to talk about it or gets instantly defensive when I suggest ways to cut spending and then it turns into a fight. She calls me controlling but in my mind, I have to take control of our finances because she won't participate. My wife hates being controlled. She grew up watching her father have the final say on everything in their house and her mother always complied. I tell her that we need to pick apart our expenditures line by line and think of ways to save money. For our family of five I have budgeted 900 per month for groceries and 200 per month for misc. We went over by 550 last month. I suggested making more things from scratch and she said that she never has time due to work and always cleaning the house. She only works 3 days per week and we share cooking, grocery shopping, dishes, and taking care of the kids. I work an average of 50-60 hours per week so in my mind she has 20-30 hours that I don't, yet I seem to find time to make healthy snacks from scratch. When I try to tell her that she has plenty of free time and offer examples, she takes it the wrong way. Here is an example.
Me:Rather than buy all of these expensive snacks at the store, maybe we could make some healthy snacks at home?

Her:All I do is clean and pickup, I don't have time for myself like you do.

Me:You went to the pool with the kids two days this week, went to the mall once, you worked out 5 times, met a friend for lunch on thursday, spent at least a half hour a day on Facebook and 1-1/2 hours getting ready in the morning, and besides that you worked 20 less than I did.

Her:So, I guess I won't spend time with the kids anymore since you are going to throw it up in my face. I guess I need to get a second job so you can't throw that at me anymore either. 

Me:That's not what I am saying! I am simply stating a fact. I want you to spend time with the kids and you don't need to work full time but don't tell me that all you do is clean when that is simply not true.

How do I deal with this? She can't stand being questioned or approached about anything that might unveil fault on her part. She says that all I want is a puppet instead of a wife and gets instantly angry. The only thing I try to control in our lives is the finances. She decides most other things and I am fine with that. All I want is for her to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Your problems are about much more than a budget. She is uncooperative, defensive, and not a "team-player." For that, you need marriage counseling.

As for the budgeting, get rid of the joint account. Earmark certain bills to be paid from her account; the rest is hers to spend. When it's gone, it's gone. You pay the rest of the bills from your own new (non-joint) account. If she doesn't want to be on the "team," she forfeits the rights to the "team account."

Have you ever tried the "Envelope" budgeting system? You literally take the cash for things like gas, groceries, entertainment, and put it into envelopes. When the envelope is empty guess what? Nothing left to spend!

And I would cut up the credit cards so she can't jack those up. You can lock the accounts for future transactions while you pay off the balances (if there are any balances.)

Sorry for your troubles. Money problems are one of the top causes for strife in marriage.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I just want to add, her excuses for not having time to prepare healthy snacks are really flimsy.

How long does it take to cut up an apple and plop some peanut butter alongside? How long does it take to pour some almonds and raisins in a bowl? How long does it take to hand a kid a bowl of grapes?

I'm completely with you on cutting out the expensive, junky, pre-packaged snacks. They are full of additives and preservatives and are incredibly unhealthy to boot.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree with happy as a clam. Don't even bother asking for her cooperation, just do what you need to do with anything over which you can exercise sole discretion. And definitely close joint credit cards/accounts or put limits on them, open separate bank accounts, and don't cosign any future loans. Then let the savings grow while you spend your free time with your kids.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In addition to the above recommendations, get all 3 children involved in cleaning the house. At 15 & 13, my sister and I did all the cleaning and laundry and washed the cars. The 7 year old can help with dusting and folding the laundry and keeping her room up.

Your wife has it easy with all you chip in chore wise. She likely doesn't want her lifestyle to change. Ask her if she's going to enjoy working when she's 65 or 70 years old. That's the path you're on.


----------



## lewmin (Nov 5, 2012)

You made a great decision to max your 401K at 38 years old. It may not anger her so much if you show her how maxing it now, getting the company match if there is one, then increasing the max when you are over 50(catch-up an additional 5K per year), and assuming a very conservative 6% return (you should have most of yours in equities). Take it out for 27 years until you are 65, and I bet it comes out to a few million. 

Maybe if you show her results, she will get it. She is very immature with money and lives in a "live for the moment". If you follow your plan you will be in the top 5% in the U.S. net worth. Also, she should take out an Roth IRA for her job. Take the max she can put in and also figure out the future value of her IRA. It's going to be amazing.

Listen, I have friends in their 50's who always need to have the best cars, vacations, etc. Now they are scared because they were not disciplined and have very little to show for it. I have followed a program that I am preaching and have a net worth of nearly $2 million. 

I'm still not sure why she would be upset with doing a 401K max. Maybe she just does not get it. Good luck..you are doing the right thing. (Maybe she should watch Suze Ormann..it may hit home).


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

OP, please tell me you aren't carrying balances on your credit cards?

I've learned the hard way that some people are simply incapable or unwilling to understand budgets, interest, investments, etc. In my wife's case, she remembers her childhood when her parents had no money and would argue about the budget and what they couldn't afford. It's such a bad memory for her that she gets angry when I bring the budget up. 

She sees acquaintances with similar jobs and homes who are able to afford nice new cars and vacations. She asks me how they can afford it? I say they lived within their means and managed to save and invest money rather than accruing debt the way we did. More denial and anger on her part. She thinks they all hit the lottery. 

You really have to take the bull by the horns and do what is necessary for your future. Show her a plan. I don't know where you live, how expensive your house and cars are, and whether you pay for private schools, but snack savings versus 160k per year is a drop in the bucket. There has to be other areas that have more potential for savings. 

Good luck!


----------



## n'needofhope (Sep 4, 2013)

I hate to say it, but maybe your wife feels you are being controlling because you are trying to control her. From you post your wife sounds like she is suffering from the pampered princess syndrome, in which she expects to be able to have what ever she wants because she wants it. You seam to have adopted the role of controlling parent instead of the loving husband and healthy relationship partner. The difference is not much from the actions you described taking already, the healthy relationship partner would set boundary for themselves, such as, I can contribute X dollars for such and such expense. Once that money is gone the loving husband would sympathize with the disappointed wife, he would reassure her that there would be more money for that expense but it would come at a later day, such as saying “Honey I am sorry the money ran out before you had every thing you wanted to buy, that happens to me a lot too, but don't worry there will be more money for this when I get paid again next week.” By doing this you will protect yourself from resenting your wife's over spending and at the same time empower yourself to build up the savings you want to have, though your wife will likely still get mad at you.


----------



## CoralReef (Jul 1, 2014)

Why isn't your wife working full-time? It sounds like you are trying to hard to appease her. All three girls are in school all day and you do most the chores so why does she DESERVE to be a pampered princess?


----------



## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Sounds like you haven's had the beginning conversation yet. You already have the solution sorted out, but she doesn't even know what the problem was.You're not discussing the same thing.

Take it back 3 steps and see if you can work together on this.

Do you agree on your goals, financial and non financial? Get that bit sorted and then think about HOW to do it.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I wanted to echo the comment that she seems to "live in the moment". With the kids, etc I imagine she is just rolling with the flow, knowing that they won't be at home forever. Got to have fun now, etc. I have a BIL in the same situation. His wife is perfectly content to spend money on the kids, do nothing around the house, and watch him work for the rest of his life.

The problem is this is not actually a healthy and safe long term attitude. Its a very new, very American-type problem. She is not prepared for any type of economic adversity, and is training your kids in the same fashion. You've been lucky thus far, but your retirement will suffer horribly.

Its hard to get thru to people like this. Ask her if she really wants to work until she's in her 70's. Living off social security won't cut it.
When the kids are gone, you'll be looking at working, because you have no other plan. Work every day. Even when the kids are gone, you might find yourself working to support them too, at this rate.

Does she want her kids to learn to support themselves? They need to work at home. They can handle plenty of those chores that seem to demand you wife's time. They should be involved in everything from fixing meals, to cleaning and laundry. With 3 kids, it is a must to plan meals wisely, and not waste money on pre-prepared items.

It all boils down to how long do you want to work into the future to support the lifestyle you enjoy now?


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> For our family of five I have budgeted 900 per month for groceries and 200 per month for misc. We went over by 550 last month. I suggested making more things from scratch and she said that she never has time due to work and always cleaning the house.


Okay - but, you are making $13,000 -a month-. The groceries isn't what's wrecking the budget, let's be honest. What's your mortgage, what kind of cars are you both driving? There's way, way more going on here besides the groceries. 



> How long does it take to cut up an apple and plop some peanut butter alongside? How long does it take to pour some almonds and raisins in a bowl? How long does it take to hand a kid a bowl of grapes?


A snack being healthy doesn't neccessarily mean it's cheaper. Apples are 75 cents a piece these days. And almonds, are what $8, $9 a bag? What's the issue here, the snacks being healthy and "from scratch" or simply costing less than what is being bought now? What's being bought instead? Fast food?


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

I understand your frustration, but "healthy snacks" aren't going to help your budget very much. I recommend marriage counseling; your wife is being extremely defensive and you both need to learn a better strategy for communicating with each other.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> For our family of five I have budgeted 900 per month for groceries and 200 per month for misc.


What falls under "miscellaneous" is that - everything besides food?

I'd like to see the rest of the budget. How much is being spent on rent/mortgage? Insurance? Car payments? Gas? Any student loans? Cable? Child care? 

Are all the kids school ages, or are they going to daycare sometimes when you are both at work? If so - is your wife's part time job actually helping that much?

We need a lot more info on the full financial situation before agreeing that "health snacks" are the budget crisis.


----------



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Okay - but, you are making $13,000 -a month-. The groceries isn't what's wrecking the budget, let's be honest. What's your mortgage, what kind of cars are you both driving? There's way, way more going on here besides the groceries.


THIS. :iagree:

There's something rotten in Denmark.

(getting out my Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and saying, "It looks like we have a mystery, Scoob)


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Scannerguard said:


> THIS. :iagree:
> 
> There's something rotten in Denmark.
> 
> (getting out my Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and saying, "It looks like we have a mystery, Scoob)


Sherlock and Scoob in one image! Rrats Rrreat!


----------



## frustratedhubby73 (Dec 12, 2014)

CoralReef said:


> Why isn't your wife working full-time? It sounds like you are trying to hard to appease her. All three girls are in school all day and you do most the chores so why does she DESERVE to be a pampered princess?


I'm right there with you. My wife hasn't worked full-time in 16 years. All 3 of our kids have been in school fulltime for the past six years. She's let her teaching credentials lapse and for some bizarre reason has not taken any steps to get re-certified, despite me all but begging her to do so! While I'm tired of being the sole breadwinner all these years, what's even scarier for me is the prospect of college expenses, which will hit us x2 in 2.5 years (twins)! We have virtually nothing saved and our (my) income covers the basics now and that's about it. So, I'll likely (short of a miracle - which I pray for daily) be working till I'm 75 if I live that long, in order to pay off parent loans. 

I have found (me, not her, mind you) numerous jobs that she could do with universities, businesses, etc. (secretarial, etc.). She's convinced those are "beneath" her. However, working part-time at a local fitness center isn't?? Still can't figure out that one! 

Whenever we try to discuss it, she gets mad, yet doesn't have any good reasons why she won't look for full-time work. I think she thinks the college funding fairy is going to drop $200k in our laps the day our kids start college or something. Very discouraging...


----------



## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

If you don't have the $$ saved to send your kids to a private university, please don't burden yourself with loans to do so. They can take out federal loans at a lower interest rate. To save money, I'd strongly recommend considering community college for the first 2 years, then transferring to a university of their choice. If they get good grades at the community college level, they may be inducted into phi theta kappa, an academic honor society, which will give them access to a seriously huge database of scholarships.

At the very least, send them to your local state university at least for the first 1 or 2 years, and have them take as many CLEP exams as possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

frustratedhubby73,

This is a zombie thread from July. If you want support here, starting your own thread is the way to get it.


----------



## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

I am in same situation and find myself asking why, and I get the reply" I like pretty things we never had much when we were kids"
But I think there is something else going on and I think it is the HIGH that is experienced when something NICE is bought 
In my efforts to understand I have asked people who should know and TAM whether women can become shopaholics and the answer was a definite YES 
another thought,I have no idea about the sex side of your relationship but mine has diminished as the spending habit increased and we all enjoy a natural HIGH ,it makes life interesting
Hope you sort it all out and enjoy a rewarding retirement


----------

