# open marriage during separation?



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

My husband and I are splitting with no plan to reconcile. We agreed we should each be able to see and have sex with other people. As you may recall, I had that chance recently but didn't take it. I'm still wondering about the agreement, however. Not so much for me--it appears I've made my decision not to have sex during our pre-divorce period of separation.

What about the rest of you, if you are separated/separating, with no plans to reconcile? Would you be willing to have sex with someone else, or willing to agree to an open marriage? Is it "cheating" if you have such an agreement? Cheating, to me, involves deception and lies, and a marriage is over when two people agree to divorce. The rest is just paperwork. I think a friend might have the right idea when he says we should have to renew our marriage licenses every four years, just like a driver's license. Maybe it would keep us all communicating better and listening better if we knew we had to "pass the test" every four years.

I definitely would not consider it cheating by my husband now if he slept with someone, and didn't think of it that way for myself, but something held me back. What do you think?


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Technically, maybe legally...I think it would be a bad idea. It opens the idea of alienation of affection, "cheating", etc. 

I'd wait until there's at least a formal separation agreement (which specifies "dating"). 

If you need "satisfaction...go get a toy.  

Just hang on a little bit more, girl. We're here for you!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Legally, i would think it was cheating. but emotionally if you both are ok with it, then i guess its not cheating. It just depends on how you both feel about it. but saying one is ok with it, and then actually being ok with it after it happens is a whole other story. 

I personally would not sleep with anyone else. I really dont know how people are so casual about those things.


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## diazis here (Jul 6, 2009)

I don't quite understand. if you don't have a plan to reconcile, why don't you just divorce? what are you waiting for. Open marriage or open relationship is not an ideal situation. Even it looks like your relationship is what so called 'open', there is no freedom if you are not selfish enough.


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

If you are still married, whether separated or not, agreeing to divorce or just waiting on the judge to sign the paperwork, and you have sex with someone who isn't your spouse...you are cheating. It matters not if you both agreed, blah, blah blah...it's still cheating.

Are you looking for approval, sympathy or encouragement? Seems like you keep asking the same question, just phrased a little differently...

Feels like I'm taking a psych test...

Preacher


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

'Cheating' by definition in my mind is something done without permission/knowledge by the other. If you both consent to it it's not cheating because you both are knowing. In every cheating situation the other does not know. Even the idea of being unfaithful comes with secrecy.

There is a lot you can find on open marriages in general. Plus where in law does it say open marriages is illegal? Not commonly accepted by tradition but not against the law unless they use the cheating card but unless you two are playing dirty in the courts it shouldn't be an issue.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

sisters359 said:


> My husband and I are splitting with no plan to reconcile. We agreed we should each be able to see and have sex with other people. As you may recall, I had that chance recently but didn't take it. I'm still wondering about the agreement, however. Not so much for me--it appears I've made my decision not to have sex during our pre-divorce period of separation.
> 
> What about the rest of you, if you are separated/separating, with no plans to reconcile? Would you be willing to have sex with someone else, or willing to agree to an open marriage? Is it "cheating" if you have such an agreement? Cheating, to me, involves deception and lies, and a marriage is over when two people agree to divorce. The rest is just paperwork. I think a friend might have the right idea when he says we should have to renew our marriage licenses every four years, just like a driver's license. Maybe it would keep us all communicating better and listening better if we knew we had to "pass the test" every four years.
> 
> I definitely would not consider it cheating by my husband now if he slept with someone, and didn't think of it that way for myself, but something held me back. What do you think?



I have to agree with you in that my feelings are that cheating involves lies... but legally it may not be that way.
Personally if I were seperated with no intention or reunion, I'd sleep with whoever I wanted to but I'd keep a low profile about it.... more so if there were any possibility of STBX becoming jealous.
The thing about divorce is, it can take awhile if there are substainial assets or any problems in dividing them. Hope your divorce is speedy so you can have a sigh of relief its over.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Preacher (and others), I made my decision. I'm just wondering how others define it, or how the period before divorce unfolds for others. In my state, any agreement between the two parties is accepted until a legal end to the divorce is granted. That includes dating, finances, custody and placement arrangements--if the two of you agree, the court considers that the legal standing of the relationship pending final judgment. It does not even have to be put in writing or filed with the court; the language is simply, "if the parties have reached any other agreement . . ." Pretty loose but then, you can always ask for a temporary order if you can't reach an agreement. 

Divorce here takes a minimum of 6 months from date of filing. Then there must be another 6 months before any remarriage "anywhere in the world." I loved that line! I'm guessing it has a lot more to do with potential problems over paternity, if a woman remarries and discovers she got pg sometime late in the old marriage/early in the new one. DNA testing should obviate the need for that. But, since i'm not looking to remarry, I don't care so much about that.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i think when the time is right for you personally. you wil meet someone and might want sex with them. u never know when that is. so go out and enjoy yourself .
im getin divorced and were living separate. i cant say that its illegal to sleep with someone. at the end of the day, the relationship broke down. your moving on. your not having an affair and if you are or are not reconciling - i cant see where is it in the rules that you cant have a life.


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## wonder (Jun 30, 2008)

i wouldn't have sex w/ someone else until i'm legally divorced. but the again, i don't plan on having sex w/ anyone else ever again. to me it's overrated anyway


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

This is a touchy subject, not knowing your situation (which is probably completely different from mine) getting another person involved could legally bite you in the ass.

I'm already seeing someone but its very casual and its not booty calling. My H doesn't consider it cheating as he gave me his blessing and I have done the same for him. Again, my situation is different from yours.

Sex isn't worth all the hassle, I agree with dcrim...get a toy!


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

sisters359 said:


> Preacher (and others), I made my decision. I'm just wondering how others define it, or how the period before divorce unfolds for others. In my state, any agreement between the two parties is accepted until a legal end to the divorce is granted. That includes dating, finances, custody and placement arrangements--if the two of you agree, the court considers that the legal standing of the relationship pending final judgment. It does not even have to be put in writing or filed with the court; the language is simply, "if the parties have reached any other agreement . . ." Pretty loose but then, you can always ask for a temporary order if you can't reach an agreement.
> 
> Divorce here takes a minimum of 6 months from date of filing. Then there must be another 6 months before any remarriage "anywhere in the world." I loved that line! I'm guessing it has a lot more to do with potential problems over paternity, if a woman remarries and discovers she got pg sometime late in the old marriage/early in the new one. DNA testing should obviate the need for that. But, since i'm not looking to remarry, I don't care so much about that.


I believe there is marriage, divorce and seperation, seperation being seperate from the two.
I don't think seperation can be an open marriage as seperation is seperation and no longer a marriage.
I think it's ... it's own entity.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

Preso, I like your thinking. Sisters, I am wondering about this statement "but something held me back. What do you think?"

What is holding you back? Preso hit the nail onthe head when pointing out the difference between and "open-marriage" and "separation."

People who have an open marriage are still married but are seeing other people on the side.

I wonder why you would think its an open marriage?


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

I just want to know WTF "seperation" is?

Preacher


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## melancholyman (Jun 1, 2009)

Sisters, I'm in a similar situation, though it wasn't exactly my choice.

My stbx was already cheating on me, so I offered separation to "try to figure out what we really wanted". Of course, she was only too eager to agree to it because it meant she could now see her two men on the side and not have to worry about feeling guilty about it or getting caught.

So, since she was obviously going to continue "exploring her freedom", I felt I had to, as well. So, we're both dating other people.

We eventually came into speaking terms, and eventually even starting dating each other and sleeping with each other again! But she doesn't want me back as her man or her husband. Just someone to have a good time with. Sex was never one of our marital problems.

I asked her once how she felt about being in this open marriage, and she said we're not living as a married couple, so she doesn't consider this an open marriage or even cheating.

So, I'm kinda figuring this is your line of thinking on the matter. No matter how the other spouse feels about it, they can't stop you from doing what you want to do. 

I only wonder how the courts feel about it. I mean, technically, you're still married, so can either of you claim infidelity as grounds for divorce? I think XiaSuLin's answer makes sense in that if both parties know what's happening, condone it and even engage in it themselves, can it really be considered cheating?


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

Yes, legally and morally it's still cheating regardless of if it's agreed upon or not...

Just because someone commits a crime and it's forgiven, doesn't make it less of a crime...

Preacher


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/family_law/legal_separation.html

http://www.nhbar.org/pdfs/2LsvDiv01.pdf

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/F00974A1-B66D-4120-84C4AABE327D0E91/118/246/222/ART/

http://www.life123.com/relationships/divorce/divorce-process/legal-separation-v-divorce.shtml


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

MizSmith said:


> You are seperated. It is not cheating. Nor is it an open marriage. Cheating is done behind the others back. It comes with lies, deceit and hurt.
> 
> You have both agreed you are ending the marriage with no intent of getting back together. You basically are no longer a couple. If your'e living in seperate homes now then you have nothing to worry about. You can do what you want when you're ready to do so. Right now you obviously aren't ready to date other people and you don't feel okay with it. That is understandable. When you're ready you will know.


:iagree:

if a couple decides they are no longer married then they are no longer married in every truly meaningful way.

the legal filing to me is no more important than filing a tax form.

and there is nothing to forgive because no crime has been committed.

sister, stop doubting yourself. you know what you're doing.


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## Heidiw (Jul 2, 2009)

i am separated as of Sunday!!!!  He is going to be having his internet "girlfriend" in our home for a month in Sept. So he already knows that I am not waiting for him unless he decides not to go thru with it. If thats the case then he's got to work to get me back. Also I am thinking that I may not want him back. 

I chat with guys now but that is it. No sex talk or phone sex. I can keep myself plenty busy. lol


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Really, this was just a question!! I'm not doubting myself, just truly curious about what other people have done/thought on the subject, b/c frankly, I never thought about it until recently. I am comfortable with the idea of spouses AGREEING to see other people (and have sex with them, if it comes to that) on both moral and legal grounds (in my state and county). I do not agree with Preacher that it is "cheating" because two people are legally bound to one another by a civil contract (marriage). Right now, I'm not comfortable acting on this belief, probably b/c it's just too damn soon for me. 

I think the concept of marriage is and has changed so much over time that who knows what the future of "marriage" will hold? This type of discussion helps me see how others define marriage. I don't see any real consensus emerging, in part b/c people are recognizing a moral and legal difference, with the legal framework presenting more difficulties than the moral framework seems to. I think it's an interesting discussion and am glad so many have shared their point of view. 

I am thinking about writing a book on the history of marriage. Or maybe not; sounds like a lot of work


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

There are many books on the history of marriage  what would yours be about?


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Well, I'd say once not sleeping with each other and not living under the same roof, and are getting divorced, it isn't "cheating".

My dh dragged me through THREE solid years of divorce court....I was only "married" because of the paper.


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

and you won't find concensus anywhere in america because the definition of the nuclear family is in a state of flux.

it's been in such a state since the industrial revolution and the evolution of the nuclear family has accelerated post industrial revolution.

it's a rare event by definition that our courts herald such social change before societal acceptance.

and if i may respectfully observe, you are adroit at relegating issues of emotion to erudition.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

XiaSulin said:


> There are many books on the history of marriage  what would yours be about?


It would be the 2nd in a series beginning with "Gender Inequality: A Myth for Modern Times," and the working title is, "The End of Marriage." Can't decide if I'm going for the academic or popular audience, however. . . 

So many ideas, so little time.


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## Veronica Jackson (Jul 2, 2008)

recent cloud and MizSmith hit the nail on the head. We are living in a new generation and definitely not in the 50's anymore. You do what you have to do within your own comfort zone.


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## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree that sleeping with other men while a divorce is pending is not “cheating” but like many who have posted already, the legal ramifications make me weary and for myself I think I’d wait regardless of any agreement with my STBX because people can change their mind/opinions at the drop of a hat. You can never be 100% sure of someone else’s intentions. They might say they’re okay with it and it’s a different story when it really happens.

On that note, I would put myself in the shoes of the person you’re not married to but are sleeping with. If it’s just sex and both parties agree on that principal that’s one thing but it’s not really fair to them if they expect a relationship out of it. For the same reason as I wouldn’t take my STBX’s word that it’s okay, people can change their minds at the drop of a hat. People have been known to get all the way to divorce court and decide to reconcile. Even if you know beyond a reasonable doubt that’s not going to happen, you never know. Never say never is one of my mottos 

I do agree with Veronica though also, to each their own, lol.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

i've seen similar debate with regard to gun control. bear with me.

people who were against ownership of automatic weapons tried to enact laws banning ownership. the constitution (arguably, as are most things constitutional) clearly enumerates the right to keep and bear arms.

the best response contitutional scholars had to anti-2nd amendment folks was: "change the constitution if you don't like what it says." easier said than done. for good reason.

as for the separated/married/adultery debate...apply the same thought process.

yes, it is "just a piece of paper." much like a diploma. the diploma doesn't "make" you smarter. it just says you've "done the drill." being intelligent is it's own acheivement. but the piece of paper say that you "did the drill" and accepted the tenants of marriage.

if you don't like that, well, change the law. but married IS married. sex outside of marriage is adultery. i didn't make up the terms. they are clear in blacks law.


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## BadKarma (Jun 27, 2009)

I think when my W finally leaves, she is open to dateing other people. What can I say, I would prefer she didn't, but I believe its the reason she is leaving in the 1st place. Legal grounds or not, it all depends if you want a contested or uncontested divorce.


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