# Can she still love me?



## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

D


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Wake up! Her affair isn't over!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She is under delusion. It is referred to as fog.

He treated a wife and mother like a cheap piece of ass and she thinks that is a good trait?

Only way to snap her out of it is to do a 180. Look it up.

Expose to family and friends. She needs to quit her job now. Confront OM. Maybe he will leave the job.

File divorce papers and ask her to leave. Send the kids to family and go out with friends.

Go cold and dark on her.

She gets to have her home life undisturbed because you are enabling it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If they are still in contact in any form the affair is ongoing. Nothing you can do until he's completely gone. Period. She's a classic cake eater.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

"Should I just keep being nice and give her time, or should I get out now so I can start to get over it and move on?" 

Well it all depends, if you lost your testicles in a bad accident then keep being nice and give her some time (and lots of cake), otherwise man up because soon as the OM decides he wants her back, she's gone. Like it or not, you're plan B, maybe even Plan C. Can you you handle that? If not, get over it and move on.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Once a cheater, always a cheater is true more than false. She has already indicated that she does not like how you treat her. Even if she comes back to you, you already know that the first time she feels neglected, she will jump into the arms of another man instead of talking to you. A person's past actions are a very good indicator of their future behavior. Cut her loose. The two women who cheated on me went on to cheat on the next guy or two. How can you ever trust her when she is out of your sight. She is a proven liar and cheat. You now know this and it will gnaw away at you for the rest of the time you are with her. I know the feeling and it is best to find someone who thinks you do treat her right. 

Know this, many wives, when caught will put the blame on you. It is your fault and they know you love them so they can get away with it. You drove her into the arms of another man and she screwed him because of you, yes you. It is all your fault. Please, don't let her play you this way. Don't be the love struck cuckold. I have seen too many husbands who keep forgiving their wives and letting them know that nothing bad will happen when they cheat again. You will see.


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## sam59 (Apr 16, 2014)

Is the OM married ? If so tell his BS. Does the company she works for have a policy about no fraternization ? If so expose to the HR department. Stop letting her call the shots ! Stick up for yourself and your family !


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You can't nice your way out of this.

You will never know how bad your old lady really wants this marriage if she doesn't pay the consequences of dealing with the possibility that you will let her go.

Beside why in the hell are you rewarding her by being nice?

See folks cherish what they have to work for and if your old lady can't do the heavy lifting then does she really want this to work out or is it more convenient to stay in a loves less marriage.

In short you need to make her work for it. Folks seem to value the things they have to work for.

I'm guessing here but I have a feeling when push comes to shove your old lady may show her true feeling by bailing and not put in the effort to help you heal and deal with the consequences. I could be wrong.

But the point remains will she do this again knowing you aren't going any were no matter how she treats you? Will she do this again know you will just treat her nicer?

Remember bad behavior continues with out consequences!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The question isn't "does she still love me" the question should be does she love me enough to have the submission to face all the consequences you have to offer.

Are you guys still banging or has she iced you out?

Is she willing to face any exposure you have to offer?

Has she given up her toxic friends?

Does she still go out with out you?

Do you have access to her cell and computer?


Again she may just want to keep you out of convenience and if thats the case .....dude it's just a matter of time before she phucks around again....no matter how much you reward her by being nice!


I mean she can tell you she want's to work it out, but is she willing to be an open book who stays home and will take a hard spanking if you so choose? Again talk is cheap is she willing to put into action the hard shyt that needs to be done to help you heal. Cuz face it if she is sticking around for the kids.....well the kids aren't going to prevent her from phucking around....they didn't the 1st time they won't the next time around.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like she wants to keep you and him, for as long as she can. The tangled webs some people weave, eh? Sorry you are stuck in this...please look after yourself. You matter. She has no respect for you or the marriage...or even herself, at this point. My advice would be to seek the advice of an attorney and be ready to choose another path. Praying for you to have peace and courage through this.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

you need to let the OMs wife know ASAP. Dont tell your wife you are goimg to do this. bet his marriage isnt as bad as he told your wife it is.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

"Too bad that you've been betrayed and are hurt and sad. Too bad that the kids may suffer with a broken home because of her betrayal. Too bad about the possible end of your marriage and all the bitterness and major upheaval that entails. All that really matters is that the OM isn't sad!" That is exactly what she is saying to you. Tell her to get a grip on reality and that she can't have it both ways.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

brian6173 said:


> We talked last night, and she says she still cares abou the guy and doesn't want him to be sad, but she also knows I care about her and she wants to make the marriage work for the kids and because its the right thing to do.


Do you need me to translate that from womanese to what's she really means?


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Do you need me to translate that from womanese to what's she really means?


Please do.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

brian6173 said:


> Should I just keep being nice and give her time,


No


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You will know for sure if she still loves you if she excepts the consequences when you tell the OMW (other man's wife).

Your your old lady will truly love you when you tell her lovers wife about the affair and your old lady excepts that reality and under stands why it had to be done. If your old lady can face this consequences then you guys have something to work with.

But....If she gets pissed you told OMW... your next step is talk to a divorce lawyer.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

The questions not if she can love you. The question is can you love the person she has chose to be. 

This is one of the hardest things in the world...but she is no longer the same woman you fell in love with. That woman is gone and in her place is someone very different. You've got some great advice here. And I know that on an emotional level it doesn't make sense. But that's because you haven't come to terms with the loss of your wife. 

Unless you want to live a life where you can never trust your spouse you need to set some hard boundaries. 

Don't keep the affair a secret. Tell people what is happening. Put it all out in the open. 
Talk to a lawyer. Doesn't mean you are getting a divorce but it does mean you are protecting your self and your family. Right now you have to consider your wife a threat to your family. 
Get counseling. No matter what happens with your wife you will need help grieving the loss of the woman you loved. 

You can't control what she does, but you can control what you do. Take that control and make choices with what you have. Right now, you don't have a loving wife. So don't make choices that include a loving wife in the picture. You don't have that right now. 

And more importantly, you need to accept that she is the only one who can save the marriage and she might choose not too. 

Anyway, I'm sorry this is happening to you. Outside of the concrete advice that you should take, all anyone of you can say is that you won't feel this awful forever. This is one of the most painful things in your life that you will face, but the pain doesn't last forever. It does last a long time, but it's not forever. 

I'm at the 18 month mark of my divorce. And 12 months ago I discovered that my husband actually said he was done with the marriage because he was "in love" with someone else. But today, I'm actually happy. It took me a long time to get here. Longer than I wanted. And I know I'm not done with the process. But the overwhelming grief that took over my every waking moments is over. I am moving on with life and I'm looking forward to what's down the road. 

So hang in there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

brian6173 said:


> I have been dating my wife since she was 17 and we are both in our early 30's now. I was her first love, kiss, sex, boyfriend and everything. We have had a rocky relationship, but never stayed mad at eachother for more than a day before. I just learned she was having an affair about a week ago. It is a guy she works with. They have been friends about 3 years, and she said she started having feelings for him about a year ago. She said he treated her the way she always wanted me to treat her. She ended the sexual part of the affair a few months ago, and told the guy she wanted to make her marriage work. But they stayed close friends. We eventually had a fight and she told me everything about a week ago. She agreed for us both to go to therapy, and to stop talking to the guy, find a new job, and start treating me better. During the past week though, I have been trying really hard and she is pulling away again. We talked last night, and she says she still cares abou the guy and doesn't want him to be sad, but she also knows I care about her and she wants to make the marriage work for the kids and because its the right thing to do. I told her she needs to figure out if she really like him, or if it was just the product of both of them being in unhappy marriages. She says he is just completely different than me and treats her right and was her best friend. She said she wants to stay together, and I just need to give her time to get over him and start loving me better.
> 
> Does it sound like we can make it work, or is she just afraid of losing her lover and her married life? Should I just keep being nice and give her time, or should I get out now so I can start to get over it and move on?


Well... yes, it is possible. But! So long as her affair really is over.

He treated her well? Of course he did. Because he wanted to have sex with her.

And it worked for him.

Because, of course, his wife didn't understand him and he was in a loveless marriage and so forth. 

And he would still respect your wife after they had sex together.

His problem was an inability to respect your wife's marriage and his own marriage.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Women respect men who are decisive. She lost respect for you after she started her affair. The only way to regain her respect and have any hope of saving your marriage is to haul her up to the brink of the cliff and let her see how far the fall is....

File for divorce, separate your incomes, and close all your joint credit cards. Have her served at work. Notify her family and yours as to what she has done. Write a letter to her boss telling him you are considering legal action against his company for allowing an affair to occur between his employees. 

Blow her fantasy to kingdom come. She may hate you initially, but she will eventually respect that you stood up for yourself and the marriage.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Does she still love you? No. She's more concerned about not hurting the feelings of her best friend. Her husband of 15 years and the father of her kids doesn't rate much on her heart's scale. When a woman gives herself sexually to a man, she is replacing her husband. I'm sure she cut you off sexually because she wants to be loyal to her man. The thought of being sexual with you repulses her because her body belongs to POS.

Go to Loveshack and read the threads on the OW section. You'll see the same story over and over. WWs who are obsessed with their OM, with nary a thought about their husband or their kids lives she's destroying. 

Personally, once a PA goes sexual, I think the husband should divorce and have a relationship(s). After the divorce and at least a STR, you can maybe date if she earns your love and remained chaste. To try to go straight to R after she's had sex with another man is a recipe for pain. Especially when she's talking about POS being her best friend.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Oh my ****ing GOD! this is so pathetic it's not even funny. Yes, your marriage had problems, but you didn't go and fall in love with someone else, did you? let me tell you, man. She doesn't give a **** about you. She just wants the comfort of living with you and seeing her kids every day, as well as making sure she's taken care of financially.

Stop being her plan B, grow a pair and get a divorce. The title of your thread made it look like YOU were the cheating husband LOL. Can't believe you're bothered about whether SHE can love YOU, not the other way around.

Honestly, if you're this weak, she's better off with the other guy. It's primitive, man. She needs a strong man to take care of her and her children, not a codependent one.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

[QUOTis whats=brian6173;15127385]I have been dating my wife since she was 17 and we are both in our early 30's now. I was her first love, kiss, sex, boyfriend and everything. We have had a rocky relationship, but never stayed mad at eachother for more than a day before. I just learned she was having an affair about a week ago. It is a guy she works with. They have been friends about 3 years, and she said she started having feelings for him about a year ago. She said he treated her the way she always wanted me to treat her. She ended the sexual part of the affair a few months ago, and told the guy she wanted to make her marriage work. But they stayed close friends. We eventually had a fight and she told me everything about a week ago. She agreed for us both to go to therapy, and to stop talking to the guy, find a new job, and start treating me better. During the past week though, I have been trying really hard and she is pulling away again. We talked last night, and she says she still cares abou the guy and doesn't want him to be sad, but she also knows I care about her and she wants to make the marriage work for the kids and because its the right thing to do. I told her she needs to figure out if she really like him, or if it was just the product of both of them being in unhappy marriages. She says he is just completely different than me and treats her right and was her best friend. She said she wants to stay together, and I just need to give her time to get over him and start loving me better.

Does it sound like we can make it work, or is she just afraid of losing her lover and her married life? Should I just keep being nice and give her time, or should I get out now so I can start to get over it and move on?[/QUOTE]

This Is what happens when people completely lose their sense of shame.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

brian6173 said:


> I have been dating my wife since she was 17 and we are both in our early 30's now. I was her first love, kiss, sex, boyfriend and everything. We have had a rocky relationship, but never stayed mad at eachother for more than a day before. I just learned she was having an affair about a week ago. It is a guy she works with. They have been friends about 3 years, and she said she started having feelings for him about a year ago. She said he treated her the way she always wanted me to treat her. She ended the sexual part of the affair a few months ago, and told the guy she wanted to make her marriage work. But they stayed close friends. We eventually had a fight and she told me everything about a week ago. She agreed for us both to go to therapy, and to stop talking to the guy, find a new job, and start treating me better. During the past week though, I have been trying really hard and she is pulling away again. We talked last night, and she says she still cares abou the guy and doesn't want him to be sad, but she also knows I care about her and she wants to make the marriage work for the kids and because its the right thing to do. I told her she needs to figure out if she really like him, or if it was just the product of both of them being in unhappy marriages. She says he is just completely different than me and treats her right and was her best friend. She said she wants to stay together, and I just need to give her time to get over him and start loving me better.
> 
> Does it sound like we can make it work, or is she just afraid of losing her lover and her married life? Should I just keep being nice and give her time, or should I get out now so I can start to get over it and move on?


She did not have admit to the affair. They have been having the affair for at least a year. Why admit it now?

She loves this guy more than you. She does not have the courage to leave you on her own. She wants you to throw her out. Problem solved. 

Oh yeah, she feels guilty. But her moral fiber went limp a year ago. She willingly fell naked into his arms.

Let her go


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Here's my opinion. 
Once a woman loses her love for you, it's gone. It won't come back.

She is telling you to your face that she is in love, has had sex, and is still in live with him and worries he is sad.
If she respected you, she'd be worried he was going to be in the hospital after telling you he had sex with her.
She doesn't respect or love you.

However, since you are her first love, and has kids with you, here's what I'm thinking:

If you are stupid enough to want this woman who has shown you how much she values your marriage, here's what I would do, and why:

The why: because she shows resistance to leaving, and because you are her first love.

What to do:

Expose to OM's wife only, or possibly her folks.
Act cold as ice.
File for divorce.
No calls or texts of any kind except with kids, preferably none at all.
Separate all accounts.
Act as if you are truly leaving.
Do it.

How it would work out:

She would second guess herself.
She wouldn't get the power of seeing you grovel and beg. 
She would have to take care of herself with no help from you.
OM's wife would crack down on him, and he'd sell your wife out. 
It would crush your wife and blow up the fantasy--- that's all it is, but it's real in her mind.
Or--- she will run to him, and he'll have to take care of her. He will get the bad along with the good. He's already shown he's a selfish pos by doing a married woman. She will see him for what he is, and maybe he won't treat her so great after all. He's already banging her so what's to lose.
You'll be separated and can have a little fun on the side,too, if you want.
If she is happier with him and doesn't want you, it would happen thT way either way.
You'll get to see after detaching if you really care that much for her, or just the idea of your family.

My guess is if you screw up her fantasy land, and at the same time you show her that you don't tolerate cheating, she will likely come back and this problem will be history.

If you stick your head in the sand you'll be letting this get to you for years to come. 
Don't rugsweep it and go on. She'll just do this again, because you showed her she can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

EunuchMonk said:


> Please do.


Notice during "their talk" she said nothing about how much she cares about her husband. The best he got was that she wanted to start loving him better once she gets over the other guy. (while telling him she's in an unhappy marriage and the other guy is what she wants) He's at the bottom of the totem pole and after keeping him around a while for shyts a giggles, he's history.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Well I did everything wrong when my wife had an affair. Wish I had been in your shoes to have a chance to do it the right way. 

First, stop talking to her about the marriage. Disconnect and get an attorney and have her served. This woman just betrayed you in the worst way possible. 

Have her served. Inform OM wife. Be a man. 

The nice guy route is an option but guess what, she ended the marriage when she cheated on you. Time to watch out for yourself. 

Or be a complete doormat and put yourself through hell for the next 6 to 12 months.

Every piece of advice posted thus far is spot on. For your sake I hope you follow it. Stay on TAM, people with experience are here to guide you through it. 

She broke the marriage. She needs to be the one to fix it. Right now she is choosing another man over you. Act accordingly while you still can.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It amazes me how these cheaters say how their affair partner treats them so well. Of course they do. They're getting no strings attached, free, sex. The real husband gets the day to day grind, the end of the month craziness, the blame for all that goes wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

The main question a betrayed/mistreated/disrespected spouse should ask themselves is, "when the whole marriage, and what you'll be having to live with, is exposed to the harsh light of day, are you really going to be better off staying in the marriage?".


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

How long has/had the affair been going and how did you find out ?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> It amazes me how these cheaters say how their affair partner treats them so well. Of course they do. They're getting no strings attached, free, sex. The real husband gets the day to day grind, the end of the month craziness, the blame for all that goes wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, exactly. They see the treatment that comes devoid of having to put up with another human being's [email protected] in close quarters. It's the kind of treatment you give /get when you're on your best behavior with limited personal time to spend. It's not realistic.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

No, she will never love you again. I chose to stay with my wife after I found out she had left the marriage emotionally. By the time I found out, I had already been on these websites long enough to have the realization almost immediately upon finding out that she wasn't coming back. It didn't take long to confirm it. 

I almost immediately fixed all of the things that drove her away. NO WAY was I going to be the kind of person that could do that to someone I love. But she was gone. We are still together. We are friends. We laugh together sometimes. But she will never love me again. 

This is my issue. I seek out these threads. Women fall out of love. They RARELY come back. Go ahead. Blow up her world. Do all of the alpha-male bull crap all of these well intentioned posters will recommend. End of the day, she still won't love you. All of that **** may even make it worse. 

Lick your wounds and come out a better man because of it. Stay with her or not, your choice. Just know the love is gone for good.

Time to work on YOU my friend. Read up on the 180. Make it your friend. Just ignore the parts about her seeing the new and improved "you" and coming back. It doesn't work that way.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Macho that's pretty tragic man. 

Why?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Had she told me when it first happened, it would be different. I was still young. Kids weren't entering college. Our family unit wouldn't have had the history it has now. But since I learned 15 or so years later, it was too late. I chose to NOT break up our entire family just because I wasn't loved. I didn't really see too much happiness for me holed up in my little batchelor apartment as a 50 year old divorce. 

My family is still in tact. We are close. We spend time together. We laugh. Plus, I live in a western society. 80% of the worlds population would switch places with me sight unseen. The next 10% would if they looked at it closely enough. I won life's lottery. I'm good. Not perfect, but good.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Your wife was "friends" with this guy for 3 years and started sexual affair a year ago. Where the h3ll were you? Did you not notice the pulling away and check on her before it got this deep? Or were you one of those I don't want to invade her privacy or be controlling guys? 

She's your wife and if you suspect something is up, you have the right to dig to find out if she's betraying the marriage and family. It is not controlling to tell your spouse that you won't tolerate the disrespect of betrayal.

Here is what you need to know. Woman do not respect weak men. In her mind, the fact that she was able to sneak around and have a sexual affair, makes you weak. The fact that you want to work things out without her having any consequences is showing her how weak you are and further repelling her. 

Face it, right now POS is out manning you. The mother of your kids has allowed herself to become this guys free prostitute. By spending time with her and whispering sweet NOTHING in her ear, he gets her to give him porn star sex. You being her first everything and father of her kids. Being there through life's problems all these years, she's come to be repulsed by your touch. This woman deserves nothing short of divorce.


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## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

Sh


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Brian, you are coming at this from the wrong perspective. As others have said, you are asking completely the wrong question. The right question is "CAN YOU LOVE HER ?"

And if the answer to this is yes, therein is your real problem that you need to work on. How could you possibly love her when she has lied, cheated and been disrespectful to you and is now trying to ensure that you do not leave her because she needs you hanging around. 

Your problem is not her anymore. She cheated and it is clear to most here that she should be dumped as fast as you can. Your real problem is YOU! You need to really work on yourself so that the question you asked doesn't even come into your mind.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

180 time. Protect yourself. 

She is still in the affair.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

I am not sure the 180 does any good here other than for himself. In this case, being served divorce papers is would I would do. It cuts the BS and let's the skank know you mean business.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Brian

*She can't really quit her job because neither of us earn enough to be jobless. She showed showed me the text where she told the guy to stop talking to her and she blocked his number. She comes straight home from work now and invites me anytime she wants to leave home. 
The guy was in the process of divorcing his wife during all this, so he is single and living alone now. 
She says she just needs time to get over him because she was in love, and she needs to get over the loss of her after-work hobbies, because he goes to those same activities so she can't anymore.
Posted via Mobile Device*

Do you realize what you have written here. So her OM is single and available, works with her every day, and you think some sill letter or text ( which she probably told him she had to send) is going to make her stop. What the hell are the "activities" that she had to stop that he was at. ??? Do you really think they can't go off during lunch or before work??

Notice that virtually everyone here, who do not know each other from Adam, has told you the same thing in different words

(1) she does not want to give him up but wants to stay married to you
(2) his feelings are hurt, but yours do not matter as much
(3) she has only done the bare minimum to keep you around begging her to love you again

Now, you need to do the following my friend BEFORE you make any decisions about anything

(1) get a damm VAR in her car and find out if she is still talking to him
(2) put a GPS on her car and make 
DO NOT TELL HER ABOUT # 1 & #2
(3) tell her you want her locator on on her cell phone
(40 order the cell phone records so you can see call numbers and duration of calls

Stop the crap with she loves him and needs time. The more time you give her the more space she gets to string you along.

My guess is she is still banging him and is going to continue to do so until you make it real for her.

*And if they are going to continue to work together, you need to tell her she is going to at some point meet a polygraph examiner face to face and the first question is going to be "have you had sex or met with OM since whatever date you put in there"*

my guess is she will turn as white as Casper The Ghost at the suggestion or refuse to take the test. That will tell you what you want to know.

You other option is to play the "pick me dance' game you are playing now, and let her have the two of you chasing her. That dance normally ends up with the BH ( that be you my friend) getting **** on.

You choice. Either eat the **** sandwich or do something to make her believe the "fun" is over.


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## itbeme (May 2, 2015)

One more bit of advice, STD CHECK for both of you. For the amount of time the affair lasted I'm sure raincoats came off after a while.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> This is my issue. I seek out these threads. Women fall out of love. They RARELY come back.


That pretty much sums it up. (the reason you read a number of post titled something like, "we reconciled but things are not right".)


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> She can't really quit her job because neither of us earn enough to be jobless. She showed showed me the text where she told the guy to stop talking to her and she blocked his number. She comes straight home from work now and invites me anytime she wants to leave home. *
> 
> The guy was in the process of divorcing his wife during all this, so he is single and living alone now. *
> 
> ...



can you detail the steps with how you have verified this? I'm assuming you have not.

DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE DOING THIS BUT YOU MUST TALK TO HER BOYFRIENDS WIFE. It's likely not an ex

As an added bonus, after you do this you will see if she is really maintaining No Contact.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I bet OM's wife was told it was a trial separation so he could get his head together and be the kind of husband she deserved.

At times like this I miss my vomiting penguin animation. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

A couple of thoughts for you OP,

What is more important to you; her job or your marriage? She has to quit that job immediately. Non negotiable. The fact that you haven't insisted she do it, makes her disrespect you all the more.

In regards to her pining for the POSOM; that's not unusual. But, if she is remorseful and wants to save her marriage, she damn well better "fake it til she makes it". She doesn't talk to you about her feelings for him and she does her best impression of a loving, dutiful wife until she gets out of her fog. Don't accept anything less.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Augusto said:


> I am not sure the 180 does any good here other than for himself.


Who else WOULD he do the 180 for?

:scratchhead:


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

badmemory said:


> ...if she is remorseful and wants to save her marriage, she damn well better "fake it til she makes it". She doesn't talk to you about her feelings for him and she does her best impression of a loving, dutiful wife until she gets out of her fog. Don't accept anything less.


Sorry. I'm still confused over this hard-ass approach. Not to single out BM for this, because you all have it.

Brian has 2 total posts on this entire FORUM, both on this thread. So it should be EASY to find the part where it seems even REMOTELY possible she will react positively to this.

She never apologized, she never grovelled. She never even asked for forgiveness. Her affair partner didn't throw her under the bus. She's not waiting on Plan A's decision while she waits it out with her plan B. She knows what she's doing. He needs to either buy into HER agenda (no love but we stay together for the family) or leave. I'm guessing she's good either way. She's got her backup plan ready and waiting.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Augusto said:


> I am not sure the 180 does any good here other than for himself. In this case, being served divorce papers is would I would do. It cuts the BS and let's the skank know you mean business.


The 180 would be totally for him, not to save the marriage. He needs to begin emotionally detaching, which is what a hard 180 is the best course of action right now.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Sorry. I'm still confused over this hard-ass approach. Not to single out BM for this, because you all have it.
> 
> Brian has 2 total posts on this entire FORUM, both on this thread. So it should be EASY to find the part where it seems even REMOTELY possible she will react positively to this.


You call it hard-ass; I call it keeping his self respect, testing her remorse and holding her accountable for cheating. It's not his job to be her shoulder to cry on. He's the one that was betrayed.

In regards to whether she reacts positively; she may not. That's always a strong possibility when dealing with a remorseless spouse. So be it.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

What a ****ing ***** lol. Guys, is this what a beta male looks like?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

metallicaluvr said:


> What a ****ing ***** lol. Guys, is this what a beta male looks like?


Maybe. But it can also be what an ALPHA male turns into when he is suddenly faced with the reality that his life partner doesn't love him anymore. It's a horrible thing to go through. I know.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It isn't hard ass. You can calmly and deliberately set your boundaries and clearly define to the WS what you intend to do, what you don't intend to do, and what they can expect from you from that point onwards without being mean, nasty or rude about it. In fact, the more emotionally neutral you come across, the more scared they get, because they see you have detached emotionally and you are all business now.... that they no longer have any emotional control over you. That will unnerve them worse than yelling or posturing.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> In fact, the more emotionally neutral you come across, the more scared they get, because they see you have detached emotionally and you are all business now.... that they no longer have any emotional control over you. That will unnerve them worse than yelling or posturing.


All of this hard-ass/being firm/laying down the law/alpha male stuff or whatever you want to call it is perfect advice...

...FOR A WIFE THAT GIVES A ****!!!

She doesn't care. How is it going to unnerve her? 

Anyhow, let's look at the big picture. His marriage is over either way. If it makes him feel better by being the one that "laid down the law" before it ended, great. Who am I to argue? The end result is the same anyhow.

Just don't think the alpha male thing is going to win her back Brian. She holds the cards here and there is nothing you can do about it. You're going all in on a bluff while she's holding a full boat. Aces high (In case you don't know poker, barring a miracle she wins and she knows it). You are invested in the emotional side of this arrangement. She is not. You have everything to lose. She has little. PLUS her parachute all in place.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

brian6173 said:


> She says she just needs time to get over him because she was in love, and she needs to get over the loss of her after-work hobbies, because he goes to those same activities so she can't anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Friend your wants to have it both ways and as long as you let her then this will never go away. 

She says she needs time to get over it? Fine tell her to take as much time as she needs just as long as she's not under the same roof with you but let her know that time is not on her side and if she can't make her mind up then you'll do it for her. 

You also let her know that if she wants the marriage to work then she better be prepared to carry the load of making it work. She started this mess, she bought it, she owns it and it's all up to her but do not give her any wiggle room to draw it out. That happens and you lose. 

As far as both of you working to make ends meet? Get a second job if need be and have a clearer mind rather than waiting for her to come to her senses. You let her know that she's not the only one who needs time. Her telling you that should tell you that the only one she's thinking about is herself and your not counting for squat.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> All of this hard-ass/being firm/laying down the law/alpha male stuff or whatever you want to call it is perfect advice...
> 
> ...FOR A WIFE THAT GIVES A ****!!!
> 
> ...


Look, OP could dump her today and it wouldn't be a bad decision; if that's what he wants. But I'm under the assumption he may want to consider R. And if he does, this "hard-ass" approach is what most of us here would recommend - for the reasons already given.Test her remorse and make her earn her second chance. 

Nobody is assuring the OP that this approach will turn her around. If she's not truly remorseful, or at least wanting to try to be, it won't. But at least he can say he gave her the chance to demonstrate she was before he moved on. Even if the odds are she won't - what's to lose? As long as he sticks to his guns.

As for as giving in to her "agenda" for the family and kids. That's called living in limbo and would be the absolute worst scenario for him.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

Do you know why yor wife told you about LONG TIME AFFAIR ? She told you because OMs wife found about them and she was going to inform you,so your wife got scared for her lover boy and decided to punch you in the face with lies and more lies.

First thing you need to know - this Affair never stopped. It is now in open and they are laughing at you right now. People know about them,co-workers,OMs wife and some of your friends. You dont have to belive me,but you will find out soon,sorry.

Second thing- get tested for STDs 

Expose her Affair to family and close friends.

Dont give her space like she told you. You need to act as soon as possible.

Talk with your lawyer and see your options about custody,money,house ...

Divorce her my friend because she is gone. You are only Plan B and she will hurt you even more in the future. She is only staying with you becasue OM is getting Divorced and probably losing his money,house so she cant go there.

Stay strong.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

MachoMcCoy said:


> All of this hard-ass/being firm/laying down the law/alpha male stuff or whatever you want to call it is perfect advice...
> 
> ...FOR A WIFE THAT GIVES A ****!!!
> 
> ...



The 180 is not about being Alpha male. It is not about being hard azz to win her back.
It is about detachment and this will sometimes make the WW see that they are losing something valuable. Normally they don't give a rats azz and they leave anyway. 

In the grand scheme of things this does not matter because in the process of doing the 180 which you regain your self respect and begin to see the world as a single person with solid boundaries.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

badmemory said:


> Look, OP could dump her today and it wouldn't be a bad decision; if that's what he wants. But I'm under the assumption he may want to consider R. And if he does, this "hard-ass" approach is what most of us here would recommend - for the reasons already given.Test her remorse and make her earn her second chance.
> 
> Nobody is assuring the OP that this approach will turn her around. If she's not truly remorseful, or at least wanting to try to be, it won't. But at least he can say he gave her the chance to demonstrate she was before he moved on. Even if the odds are she won't - what's to lose? As long as he sticks to his guns.
> 
> As for as giving in to her "agenda" for the family and kids. That's called living in limbo and would be the absolute worst scenario for him.


 are you kidding me? Why encourage him to R? If he wanted to jump off a bridge, would you give him advice as to how he can do that, too? 

Men like him are the reason why women think they can treat us like dirt. He needs to stand up for himself and tell this woman to GTFO after what she's done instead of manipulating her into "loving" him again. Have you no shame?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

metallicaluvr said:


> are you kidding me? Why encourage him to R? If he wanted to jump off a bridge, would you give him advice as to how he can do that, too?
> 
> Men like him are the reason why women think they can treat us like dirt. He needs to stand up for himself and tell this woman to GTFO after what she's done instead of manipulating her into "loving" him again. Have you no shame?


I'm not encouraging him to R. I'm simply telling him that if he wants to consider it, what he should be looking for from her. My advice is centered on what the best outcome is for him, whether he "attempts" R or divorces. Unlike you, I don't presume that I have the divine wisdom to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that true R is impossible - even if I think it is unlikely.

Funny. In one post I'm accused of being a hard ass, and in the next being too pro R.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Brian,
Hows it going?

Please tell us you are reconciling so we can see metallicaluvr shyt him self.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> All of this hard-ass/being firm/laying down the law/alpha male stuff or whatever you want to call it is perfect advice...
> 
> ...FOR A WIFE THAT GIVES A ****!!!
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with you. The 180 approach is just that...an approach to detaching and getting to a place of emotional independence. 

I encourage him to let her go with enthusiasm. He should pack her stuff on boxes and put them in storage for her. He should initiate divorce and send her on her way to the happiness she thinks is waiting for her. 

He can be strong and confident while doing so. This is for him, not her. This way he can look back and say to himself "Self, I did everything I could to talk sense into her hand save the marriage. I have done my due diligence, and now I can divorce her and move on to a better life without her dysfunction mucking things up." 

That is strength. It's not being Mike Hammer, hard-ass mo-fo. It is simply him valuing himself more than her for the first time in their relationship. That is how he gets back the power. 

And no, she does not hold all the cards. He is just allowing her to do so through his own vacillation. He can take the cards back by filing for divorce, claiming abandonment and asking the court for as much as he can get.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ing said:


> The 180 is not about being Alpha male. It is not about being hard azz to win her back.
> It is about detachment and this will sometimes make the WW see that they are losing something valuable. Normally they don't give a rats azz and they leave anyway.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things this does not matter because in the process of doing the 180 which you regain your self respect and begin to see the world as a single person with solid boundaries.


This.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I felt helpless for a long time. Then it dawned on me - yes, there are millions of other dudes if she wants to ride the carousel. But as hard as she might work to replace me, she cannot. There is only 1 father to my kids, 1 husband. Me. If some other idiot wants to play a part in her fantasy then more power to him.

I stopped communicating with her, period. Kids, finances yes, otherwise I have given her nothing. I am not mean to her at all but I don't accept that low-life treatment from anyone in my life. So I cut her out like a wart and moved on.

Every few months she tries coming up with a scheme or asking to reconcile now. She still has never issued a single apology to me. The funny thing is now it doesn't matter to me anymore, I have no interest in her whatsoever. 

Brian - keep your dignity. Throw the trash out and protect yourself and be a man for your kids. She's a proven loony bin so why leave her in control of the direction of your family?

Unless you want to star in a new reality show on the CW called "Crazy At The Helm."


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Augusto said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure the 180 does any good here other than for himself.
> ...


Some think of it as a way to send the wife a message. I know some spouses that have it done to them would finally say "about damn time" "see he treats me bad" and really the sending a message part should only be a bi-product of the 180 not part of it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

cbnero said:


> I felt helpless for a long time. *Then it dawned on me - yes, there are millions of other dudes if she wants to ride the carousel. But as hard as she might work to replace me, she cannot. There is only 1 father to my kids, 1 husband. Me. If some other idiot wants to play a part in her fantasy then more power to him.*
> 
> I stopped communicating with her, period. Kids, finances yes, otherwise I have given her nothing. I am not mean to her at all but I don't accept that low-life treatment from anyone in my life. So I cut her out like a wart and moved on.
> 
> ...


I like this thought and believe that it's true. No other man will be her original husband and father of her kids. She can remarry some thirsty guy who's desperate enough to marry a cheating divorcee with kids but it was being with you that could have brought her the most honor and rehabilitation. No one else can give her that.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Sorry you are here my friend.
> 
> Do you know why yor wife told you about LONG TIME AFFAIR ? *She told you because OMs wife found about them and she was going to inform you,so your wife got scared for her lover boy and decided to punch you in the face with lies and more lies.*
> 
> ...


This sound VERY plausible. Your wife of 15 years and mother of your children is no longer the same person. Adultery is treason to the family. She's like a spy for a terrorist outfit doing the bidding of her man. She does not have your or even your children's best interest. 

Could POS have been kicked out by his wife because they were busted? Possibly. He could have told her lets lay low for a while and advised her to confess because his wife may exposed so she reluctantly comes back to you confesses a PG13 version of the truth. Another possibility and more likely is that she's was hoping to leave you for him but he squashed that or told her he needs more time. So she comes back but is not ready to do anything with you, she's only able to feign but so much.

I recently read a post on a thread of a WW who's MM told her to take one for the team and continue having sex with her husband to not arouse suspicion. She was not able to. She has not had sex with her husband for 3 years. This is a man that has been with her for nearly 30 years and they have 2 older kids, including a special needs teen. Think about that. She sees her POS as the team and the husband of 30 year and father of her 2 kids as the outsider. That is your wife's mindset.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

B, sorry you in this mess, but do this for yourself.

Go James Bond. All your info seem to come from the very one who betrayed you.

Get that VAR, and plant it under her seat. Secured with heavy duty velcro.

I say this because you for some reason still think this is the same woman you married.

Was you her best girl friend growing up??
What woman that respect her husband, would tell him she needs time, and she is worried her pos is sad.

These are things they tell their gf's.

It's time for you to be the father and leader of your family.
It's time for you to verify EVERYTHING she has told you.

Someone said she showed you the no contact text or email, but we bet she had already told him to expect it.
Hell, he may have helped her write it at work.

It's James Bond time dude.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Brian,

While I understand no man wants to break up his family I think giving your wife no consequences for her bad decisions is not a good trend.

Why not put a time limit on her feelings coming back for you.

Hand her D papers and tell her the divorce will not be final for 3-6 months.

She has that time to decide if she wants to be in the marriage 100%.

When she asks why the D papers? Just tell her that is for lying to you, cheating on you and forsaking her vows.....

I think you will know in a few weeks what her intentions are for your marriage.

Be strong. Love yourself. Love your kids. And watch your wife from 50,000 feet to see what she intends to do.

But knock her off the fence and set your own time limit.

Some decision can still be yours.

HM


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Sorry Brian With your present inaction this won't end well.

Hit her hard with shock and awe

Clear and present detachment and full exposure

It's not over The A that is 

55


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

This woman's thinking is so warped. She's concerned that her "best friend" is sad. You were supposed to be her best friend. She should be concerned that she broke the father of her kids heart. How can I make this right? No, she wants time to grieve for a home wrecking POS. 

You guys are tight for funds and you have children but she's hanging out after work playing with POS. Sounds like the kids are very low priority. That is par for the course once a spouse goes wayward. 

Now is the time to pull away. The 180 is for you to detach. Right now you're way to needy and co-dependent on this woman. I recommend that you start putting your and your kids needs first. Don't concern yourself with her. If you've read as many threads from WWs as I have, you'd know that she is thinking about POS 24/7. Everything is getting neglected. I'd bet her work performance is way down, your kids are probably wondering why mommy is so distant. Everyone notices it but the person in the fog.

Like the others have suggested, you need to confirm the info on POS. Don't take your wife's word. Most waywards are coached by POS. Speaking of POS. I strongly recommend that you confront POS in person. But him on notice that she's off limits. I know most on TAM are not for confronting but if you want to R with this woman, YOU MUST CONFRONT. Your wife has to see you as the more savage. Reach down deep and just think about this guy breaking into your home and stealing your wife. That's pretty much what he did.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Amazing. Why do I still come here?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Amazing. Why do I still come here?


It is a profound mystery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

jsmart said:


> I know most on TAM are not for confronting but if you want to R with this woman, YOU MUST CONFRONT.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Where's Waldo?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

brian6173 said:


> I have been dating my wife since she was 17 and we are both in our early 30's now. I was her first love, kiss, sex, boyfriend and everything. We have had a rocky relationship, but never stayed mad at eachother for more than a day before. I just learned she was having an affair about a week ago. It is a guy she works with. They have been friends about 3 years, and she said she started having feelings for him about a year ago. She said he treated her the way she always wanted me to treat her. She ended the sexual part of the affair a few months ago, and told the guy she wanted to make her marriage work. But they stayed close friends. We eventually had a fight and she told me everything about a week ago. She agreed for us both to go to therapy, and to stop talking to the guy, find a new job, and start treating me better. During the past week though, I have been trying really hard and she is pulling away again. We talked last night, and she says she still cares abou the guy and doesn't want him to be sad, but she also knows I care about her and she wants to make the marriage work for the kids and because its the right thing to do. I told her she needs to figure out if she really like him, or if it was just the product of both of them being in unhappy marriages. She says he is just completely different than me and treats her right and was her best friend. She said she wants to stay together, and I just need to give her time to get over him and start loving me better.
> 
> Does it sound like we can make it work, or is she just afraid of losing her lover and her married life? Should I just keep being nice and give her time, or should I get out now so I can start to get over it and move on?


Your story is a mirror-image of what happened in my first marriage (minus the kids, though). Also, I didn't know about OM until it was too late. But the story is the same - met somebody else, was friends with him for a while (2 years in my case). One thing led to another, and she found herself torn between two people. Not wanting to leave me, but desperately wanting to be with the OM.

Short answer - no, there's nothing YOU can do to make this work, in terms of being nice, begging, grovelling, whining, crying, talking. Especially talking. I learned the hard way.

In my case, my ex wife was already checked out. She already knew what she wanted to do, BUT, she had a hard time doing it right away because of some sense of loyalty to me. She didn't want to hurt me, she felt sorry for me, she felt bad for me.

And that's almost always exactly what's going on in those peoples minds. BUT, don't mistake that for them being selfless and worrying about you, or being conflicted - it's entirely about them.

My ex wife, I know now, felt sorry for me, and was therefore conflicted about what the "right" thing to do was. She already knew what she WANTED to do. And make no mistake, she was also concerned about how it would have made HER look.

The inner conflict these people go through is about them, not about us, not about you.

And the worst thing about it? The longer this drags on, the better SHE'LL feel about it, and the worse YOU'LL feel when it's all over.

If I could do it over, I would have ended it myself, rather than trying to hang on and ultimately allowing her to get more and more comfortable with her decision.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

intheory said:


> I am female.
> 
> Why oh why would you want to reconcile with this person?
> 
> ...


I had almost the exact same words said to me. I imagine that with this comes the smiles and far away looks when she is talking about the other guy. She probably wants to be friends too.

I Divorced her after 25 years. My life is better.


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## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm conflicted because I was always a piece of **** in this marriage and she was the good one. I never cheated, but I lied about drinking and tried to avoid her. I had all the power in the relationship until the kids were born and I settled down and started being a good father and tried to be a better husband. By then though, she was beginning the emotional part of the affair. So she didn't notice I changed. She cut the guy off several months ago and told him she wanted to work on her marriage, but they remained friends. He ended up leaving his wife a while back to be with my wife, but she was trying to work on us and be his friend at the same time. So now he is the one single and wanting her.
I just feel bad because she really should have left me a long time ago, but she didn't. She was the one making the marriage work for years until she did this. So in a way, I feel I should give her a chance for giving me so many chances. 
I did threaten POS but he just said he will call the cops. So I don't want to look like an idiot getting arrested and make him look like the sane one. 
It's just hard, because every fight in the past I would threaten to leave and she would take me back. So maybe she did never love me and was always just afraid of losing me. I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

brian6173 said:


> I'm conflicted because I was always a piece of **** in this marriage and she was the good one. I never cheated, but I lied about drinking and tried to avoid her. I had all the power in the relationship until the kids were born and I settled down and started being a good father and tried to be a better husband. By then though, she was beginning the emotional part of the affair. So she didn't notice I changed. She cut the guy off several months ago and told him she wanted to work on her marriage, but they remained friends. He ended up leaving his wife a while back to be with my wife, but she was trying to work on us and be his friend at the same time. So now he is the one single and wanting her.
> I just feel bad because she really should have left me a long time ago, but she didn't. She was the one making the marriage work for years until she did this. So in a way, I feel I should give her a chance for giving me so many chances.
> I did threaten POS but he just said he will call the cops. So I don't want to look like an idiot getting arrested and make him look like the sane one.
> It's just hard, because every fight in the past I would threaten to leave and she would take me back. So maybe she did never love me and was always just afraid of losing me. I don't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen man, if you want to reconcile, you need to work on yourself, too.

You guys need a good marriage counsellor. 

But I will say that you can't really reconcile with her still being friends with the guy, either. You both need a clean break -- you from your past actions and her from hers. And that includes the OM.

Clear the decks.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Damaging a marriage is a lot different than nuking one. You may have damaged your marriage, but she nuked it. You owe her nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

I had this same question, once I found out my wife had cheated. Finally, after a lot of agonizing and research, I came up with what I think is the most reasonable and logical answer: If someone is in love with another person and has acted on it, that is pretty much prime facie evidence that she no longer loves you.
Is she capable of loving you again? Perhaps. But, I do not feel she will ever fully respect you if you allow yourself to be treated so poorly. 
My now XW has made overtures re getting back together, and one of the main reasons ( and there are many) I do not accept is that I know I would no longer respect myself and I know she would not fully respect me if I accepted the treatment she doled out during her affair.
I should mention that I no longer have any respect for her, either, having seen her for what she truly is.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

brian6173 said:


> I just feel bad because she really should have left me a long time ago, but she didn't. She was the one making the marriage work for years until she did this. So in a way, I feel I should give her a chance for giving me so many chances.


You're rationalizing to accept blame for her cheating. That's a mistake I made (at first) and a lot of other BS's make.

Perhaps your wife should have left you. She could have "talked or walked". But she didn't. Instead she made the cowardly and dishonorable choice to cheat; and her cheating is at whole different level than your part of the marital issues. She crossed a line. You should never minimize what she did.

Don't get sucked in to accepting blame for her breaking her marriage vows. If you want to attempt R, she needs to accept consequences and demonstrate remorse *FIRST*. In the unlikely event she does, *THEN* you can work on being a better husband.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I can't wait to see how the hard ass approach works out for you. Please update us. I can't fathom how becoming her father will suddenly make her see you were the one for her all along.

You people truly do not understand the dynamic of the walk-away-wife, do you? You understand infidelity, all right. You scream it everywhere. But if it's not cheating, it's boring. So the strategy is either MAKE IT cheating or find a thread that will.

She has a boyfriend ready to take her any time. She's ADMITTED that. She's admitted she still loves him. She admitted that she is staying in the marriage soley for the kids. She's going to admit to ALL OF THAT, to hide an ongoing affair?

Incredible.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

badmemory said:


> *You're rationalizing to accept blame for her cheating.* That's a mistake I made (at first) and a lot of other BS's make.
> 
> Perhaps your wife should have left you. She could have "talked or walked". But she didn't. Instead she made the cowardly and dishonorable choice to cheat; and her cheating is at whole different level than your part of the marital issues. She crossed a line. You should never minimize what she did.
> 
> *Don't get sucked in to accepting blame for her breaking her marriage vows. *If you want to attempt R, she needs to accept consequences and demonstrate remorse *FIRST*. In the unlikely event she does, *THEN* you can work on being a better husband.


That's a trend I've notice on TAM. BH after BH posting about their WW, then basically going into why they brought this on themselves. Pretty much doing the WW's rationalization for her.

If there are problems in the marriage, you either divorce or fight to save it, you don't open your legs for another man, while cutting off your husband. Same goes for men.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> *I'm conflicted because I was always a piece of **** in this marriage and she was the good one. I never cheated, but I lied about drinking and tried to avoid her.* I had all the power in the relationship until the kids were born and I settled down and started being a good father and tried to be a better husband. By then though, she was beginning the emotional part of the affair. So she didn't notice I changed. *She cut the guy off several months ago and told him she wanted to work on her marriage, but they remained friends. He ended up leaving his wife a while back to be with my wife, but she was trying to work on us and be his friend at the same time.* So now he is the one single and wanting her.
> I just feel bad because she really should have left me a long time ago, but she didn't. She was the one making the marriage work for years until she did this. So in a way, I feel I should give her a chance for giving me so many chances.
> *I did threaten POS but he just said he will call the cops. So I don't want to look like an idiot getting arrested and make him look like the sane one. *
> It's just hard, because every fight in the past I would threaten to leave and she would take me back. So maybe she did never love me and was always just afraid of losing me. I don't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please don't equate problems you've had in the pass with being equal to or deserving of adultery. Society is already going to place the blame on the husband in this situation. Don't pile more on yourself.

You honestly don't know that they're not still having sex. If it's true that he left his marriage for your wife and she's pulling back from you, that would point to her still being his girl. Woman can usually only give themselves to one man. She recoils from you because emotionally she's still his.

I personally think you should divorce because it will take way more effort to win her heart back than it would to get a new woman to love and respect you. But if you're determined to reconcile, the POS MUST BE OUT OF THE PICTURE COMPLETELY. This has to be confirmed because you will just be spinning your wheels if she's still sneaking around with him (very common by the way). She can't be "friends" with this guy. EVER.

You also must confront this POS in person. Make it clear that she's off limits. Don't give him a heads up call. Just show up at his place. Give a simple but firm warning, stay away from my wife. Let him call the cops. For me, If there is anything in life worth spending a few nights in jail for. Busting open the head of the man that fvcked the mother of your children is one of them.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

jsmart said:


> That's a trend I've notice on TAM. BH after BH posting about their WW, then basically going into why they brought this on themselves. Pretty much doing the WW's rationalization for her.


Yep, it's very common. I went through that stinkin thinkin for weeks. I don't want to get all Freudian, but I believe that often this blame accepting is not so much out of guilt, but out of the need to preserve a sense of self worth. 

The thought process may be "Surely I wasn't rejected because another man was more desirable, it has to be because of my past behavior - that I can change."

But at some point, reality finally hits. You understand that there is no one other to blame than the WS. They cheated because they chose to.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Esther


badmemory said:


> Yep, it's very common. I went through that stinkin thinkin for weeks. I don't want to get all Freudian, but I believe that often this blame accepting is not so much out of guilt, but out of the need to preserve a sense of self worth.
> 
> The thought process may be "Surely I wasn't rejected because another man was more desirable, it has to be because of my past behavior - that I can change."
> 
> But at some point, reality finally hits. You understand that there is no one other to blame than the WS. They cheated because they chose to.


I think many BSs do their own version of revisionist history and accept blame for merely being less than perfect. Many studies, at least according to what I have read, have found that the cheating spouse was,in reality, less invested in the marriage all along and caused the majority of pre-affair problems.
Makes sense. By cheating they demonstrate huge deficiencies in integrity, commitment, empathy, communication skills and problem solving abilities. Think a person with those deficiencies was an ideal spouse pre-affair?
In time, once out of the relationship, with a more normalized perspective, many BSs can see this about the cheater.
But, in the middle of the abuse and trauma from the affair, initially, this is not as evident to the BS.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I can't wait to see how the hard ass approach works out for you. Please update us. I can't fathom how becoming her father will suddenly make her see you were the one for her all along.
> 
> You people truly do not understand the dynamic of the walk-away-wife, do you? You understand infidelity, all right. You scream it everywhere. But if it's not cheating, it's boring. So the strategy is either MAKE IT cheating or find a thread that will.
> 
> ...



I understand and appreciate your approach to the WAW. I have one and do understand. She's not coming back.

The hard azz approach sometimes give the BS a final chance at some control and self respect. Kinda go out swinging.

I'm still torn. I have so much resentment towards my WAW but our lives are so intertwined because of our son and the very small place we live. I am not a mean person and holding a grudge is never good.

Right now I doing the 180 (actually about 165) and giving in sometimes. It's so difficult.


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

Maxo said:


> Esther
> 
> I think many BSs do their own version of revisionist history and accept blame for merely being less than perfect. Many studies, at least according to what I have read, have found that the cheating spouse was,in reality, less invested in the marriage all along and caused the majority of pre-affair problems.
> Makes sense. *By cheating they demonstrate huge deficiencies in integrity, commitment, empathy, communication skills and problem solving abilities. Think a person with those deficiencies was an ideal spouse pre-affair?*
> ...


Excellent analysis!




MachoMcCoy said:


> I didn't really see too much happiness for me holed up in my little batchelor apartment as a 50 year old divorce.


Tell that to my buddy who owns a business in South America and is the local rich white ******. Talk about having pull. :grin2: And he has the pics to prove it!


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Once I divorced and got my own place, my life , gradually, became much more fulfilling and peaceful.
The vast majority of cheaters seem to me to me to fit the criteria for one of the cluster B personality disorders. Getting out and away from such a person allows one to heal.
I was 52 when this all went down and my life, including romance, has been wonderful.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

philreag said:


> The hard azz approach sometimes give the BS a final chance at some control and self respect. Kinda go out swinging.


I either speculated that in my head or even wrote it in this thread. That's fine, as long as the OP agrees.



philreag said:


> Right now I doing the 180 (actually about 165) and giving in sometimes. It's so difficult.


I would have never guessed it could be so hard. I started mine about three years ago. I was just thinking about this. It's been a month or more since her coming to bed after me and immediately turning her back to me with a half-hearted "good night" hasn't tortured me. For the past two plus years every single night. It tested my strength.

I'm not going to say I'm "cured", but it's been a long time since I've cared.

OP. I will not say that she does not love you, nor CAN I say she willnever love you again. I obviously don't know. Nobody does. The title of your thread: Can she still love me? Of course she can. It's possible. 

But you are not struggling with that. EVERYBODY knows broken marriages can be fixed. What YOU are struggling with is the back end of that question: "Is it possible that my life partner doesn't love me any more?". 

Yes, it is possible. It happens ALL THE TIME. Some women keep it to themselves and live with it (my wife's chosen route until I figured it out). Some will admit it and stay for the family (sound familiar?). Others will find a man (men cheat for sex, women cheat to replace the man that left their hearts empty, ergo a WAW).

Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. Men say F--- this SH-- and leave). Women leave emotionaly first. They walk away. 

Maybe it's MY definition of WAW that is off and I'm wrong. So be it. Then let's scrap WAW and name my thing. It's what's killing 80%+ of marriages today. Let's give it a name and a concrete definition. Define the problem so we can fix it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

She was a walk-away wife before she cheated. Don't read anything into that statement other than it's intent to point out the timeline and be sure you understand it's significance in looking for a root cause to your problem. Go ahead and deal with the cheating (symptom) the way these cowboys tell you to. It will make you feel better and can't hurt. But to deal with why she walked (problem) be sure you look at the timeline first.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I either speculated that in my head or even wrote it in this thread. That's fine, as long as the OP agrees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that sounds like torture. Are you saying that you reconciled to a sexless marriage? That sounds awful and heart breaking. Why does she gets everything that woman expect in marriage while you don't? You've sacrificed so much for so little. 

Is it fear of not finding another woman? I believe that every person can improve themselves to win love. Doing the 180 until you're numb is not the answer. 180 is to detach, so you can then move on. It's not a permanent solution to a roommate marriage.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I did threaten POS but he just said he will call the cops."

Typical POSOM p*ssy.

They f*ck with another man's life and family, but when it looks like they might get called on the carpet for it, they go running for the authorities to protect themselves.

Pathetic excuses for men.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> I can't wait to see how the hard ass approach works out for you. Please update us. I can't fathom how becoming her father will suddenly make her see you were the one for her all along.
> 
> You people truly do not understand the dynamic of the walk-away-wife, do you? You understand infidelity, all right. You scream it everywhere. But if it's not cheating, it's boring. So the strategy is either MAKE IT cheating or find a thread that will.
> 
> ...



Why is that so incredible? Waywards really are that delusional. 




> She was a walk-away wife before she cheated. Don't read anything into that statement other than it's intent to point out the timeline and be sure you understand it's significance in looking for a root cause to your problem. *Go ahead and deal with the cheating (symptom) the way these cowboys tell you to.* It will make you feel better and can't hurt. But to deal with why she walked (problem) be sure you look at the timeline first


Wow man. You got some hostility....


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> She was a walk-away wife before she cheated. Don't read anything into that statement other than it's intent to point out the timeline and be sure you understand it's significance in looking for a root cause to your problem. Go ahead and deal with the cheating (symptom) the way these cowboys tell you to. It will make you feel better and can't hurt. But to deal with why she walked (problem) be sure you look at the timeline first.


So macho man,
You describe yourself as a man that treats his wife like a Queen and now she doesn't love you and you get no sex. Is this true or am I mistaken?

That's not the ideal situation, obviously. You feel you mistreated your wife and she lost her love for you (the "root" of the problem... Now you treat her well but still no love.

I don't get the logic. If the wayward wife was made vulnerable or pushed or whatever by op's bad behavior or whatever, what can you offer as a suggestion as far as advice pertaining to his wife?

Apparently you feel once it's gone, it's gone. I agree.
But what is your advice if the best he can get is your deal.

I'm suggesting divorcing her and moving on, trying to do his best to fix his troubles and at the same time, look only for long term relationships with loyal women. Is that cow-boyish?
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Btw, not trying to be a jerk, just don't fully understand what you're saying he should do


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> She was a walk-away wife before she cheated. Don't read anything into that statement other than it's intent to point out the timeline and be sure you understand it's significance in looking for a root cause to your problem. Go ahead and deal with the cheating (symptom) the way these cowboys tell you to. It will make you feel better and can't hurt. But to deal with why she walked (problem) be sure you look at the timeline first.


Not sure I get your point. An affair is surrounded by lies and any info relayed by the wayward spouse is nothing more than a justification in their own mind of why they did it. The mental change during an affair can be pretty extreme. What his wife might believe now might not be totally different a year from now.

I have seen my ex Ping-Pong all over the place. That's pretty accurate with a lot of wayward spouses from the posts on TAM. We just aren't claiming to "know it all" like you are. And I think you could be wrong just as easily as you might be right. If you want to diminish other people to feel better about yourself, maybe find another site. You sound extremely bitter.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

MachoMcCoy said:


> She was a walk-away wife before she cheated. Don't read anything into that statement other than it's intent to point out the timeline and be sure you understand it's significance in looking for a root cause to your problem. Go ahead and deal with the cheating (symptom) the way these cowboys tell you to. It will make you feel better and can't hurt. But to deal with why she walked (problem) be sure you look at the timeline first.


I agree, she may well have left the marriage prior to cheating. But, is that relevant? Fact is, regardless of the timing or her " reasons" ( and the vast majority of the time these seem to me to be merely manifestations of selfishness, unrealistic expectations, and boundless" needs", that can never be realistically met), she has cheated and broken her contract.
IMO, in general, it is unwise to cotract again with someone who has already breached the same K in the past.


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## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yesterday evening I texted and she didn't respond for 30 minutes. I knew something was up so I called and she sounded sad. I got her to confess she was said because POS put in his 2 weeks notice and was leaving because he couldn't be around her and not have her.

So I told her I am no longer trying to fix this. I told her to go stay at her mom's while I get the divorce stuff straightened out. She texted and said she was sorry and I deserve better. I said I know. Later she texted and asked if I was going to fight her on the divorce. I responded to not talk to me anymore and just be at the house at 5am to get the kids for school. She came this morning and left for work without even looking at her. 

Now I am trying to decide if I want to be mean or civil in handling the divorce. I don't know if I want to try to get as much as I can for myself, even if it leaves her in ruins, or be fair. I also don't know if I should tell everyone of her friends about the affair, because she is very afraid of that ruining her reputation. I also don't know wether to tell POS wife who he is in the middle of divorce with. I know she will make their relationship really hard, but I kind of want it to fail naturally just so I can one day have the satisfaction of knowing I was right. Basically, I'm just trying to do whatever makes me look like the better person and not someone out for revenge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Leverage exposure to get a fair settlement. She still has to be the mother of your kids after you split, so leaving her destitute will ultimately affect your children.

Do so amicably. You don't need to get justice for yourself; her downward spiral is already beginning. 

In six months, you will be moving on and living well while she will be living in a hell of her own making.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> Yesterday evening I texted and she didn't respond for 30 minutes. I knew something was up so I called and she sounded sad. I got her to confess she was said because POS put in his 2 weeks notice and was leaving because he couldn't be around her and not have her.
> 
> So I told her I am no longer trying to fix this. I told her to go stay at her mom's while I get the divorce stuff straightened out. She texted and said she was sorry and I deserve better. I said I know. Later she texted and asked if I was going to fight her on the divorce. I responded to not talk to me anymore and just be at the house at 5am to get the kids for school. She came this morning and left for work without even looking at her.
> 
> ...


Brian, please stop with the nice guy stuff. It is making things worse for you. Do not making anything easier for her. Trust me she will not bat an eye about destroying you. I knew she was still fvcking this guy. This may have been stopped if you would've confronted POS in a strong manner as soon as you found out. The bold man gets the girl. He's boldly busting the move while you were probably groveling. Woman reward boldness and punish weakness. 

Too late, for now. Expose to everyone. She's a cheating wh0re. Let everyone know it. File D and start separating the finances. Look up the 180 and implement it so you can detach. Work on yourself. You've taken an emotional beating. It's time to work on Brian. Go to the gym or start you're own workout. Do something very strenuous that will give you a goal to work toward. Start a hobby and reconnect with some male friends. DO NOT ENABLE HER FORNICATION BY BECOMING A FREE BABY SITTER.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Brian, I suspect you have been a nice guy so long that you confuse acting mean with acting in your own self interest. But friend acting in their own self interest are what adults do when it comes to important decisions. Bet you dollar to donuts your wife won't have to engage in any mental gymnastics to act in her self interests. That's all she is showing now anyway. You being "fair" in the divorce only punishes you and your kids and fuels her continued narcissistic behavior. Don't do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> It amazes me how these cheaters say how their affair partner treats them so well. Of course they do. They're getting no strings attached, free, sex. The real husband gets the day to day grind, the end of the month craziness, the blame for all that goes wrong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After being caught the wife sometimes freaks out and suddenly discovers how very much they love their husband and will do anything to R. 

I always wanted the husband to say: “If you love me so much why don’t you give me the same deal that you gave the other man. We can get a divorce and I will get no strings attached sex. He can mow the lawn. “


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

brian6173 said:


> Later she texted and asked if I was going to fight her on the divorce.
> 
> Now I am trying to decide if I want to be mean or civil in handling the divorce. I don't know if I want to try to get as much as I can for myself, even if it leaves her in ruins, or be fair. I also don't know if I should tell everyone of her friends about the affair, because she is very afraid of that ruining her reputation.


*If you want a divorce *the smart thing to do is play nice and speed things up. Now she’s in the fog and looking forward to her new life with her OM. She doesn’t care all that much about the terms of the divorce because the OM will help her pay her bills. Plus she’s in love.

Don’t mention spilling the beans about her affair. If she asks you directly say that you haven’t made up your mind. Don’t come out and say it but keep it as a veiled threat since she cares about her reputation. When you’re negotiating the divorce terms that will be in the background. She will think if I don’t give a little on this he may tell everyone. Also she will be concerned that you could make the OM’s divorce very difficult.

Move fast before she comes out of the fog and get the best terms you can.

After the divorce is final, expose.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Double post


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Men get screwed in divorce. Go to dads divorce.com and get a lawyer. 

Go hard and hope things settle in the middle. Believe nothing a cheating back stabbed tells you. Many here have had the rug pulled out from other them by their "nice" wife.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

brian6173 said:


> I'm conflicted because I was always a piece of **** in this marriage and she was the good one. I never cheated, but I lied about drinking and tried to avoid her.


Brian seems to clearly understand how his actions contributed to his wife's loss of interest and likely the ultimate end of his marriage. You guys can continue to beat the drum that, "don't accept any of the blame for her affair" if you like. But if you believe you can treat a wife anyway you please and she won't loss interest in staying with you, and will continue to love you despite your treatment, you're playing a fools game. 
There's a very big difference between being an alpha male and a challenge and just being a SOB. When women are married to SOBs, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs, she his three options; stay, leave, or cheat. Some will choose cheating to seek comfort in the arms of a lover, while letting the SOB, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs maintain the home front. She's thinking, "sure it would disappoint him, but what the hell, he's disappointed me with his shyt. Like my neighbor said, "for years he neglected me and the family and treated us like we were dogs. After I kicked his azz to the curb and started dating, he wants to be lovey dovey and become the perfect husband. He can go F himself."


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Men get screwed in divorce. Go to dads divorce.com and get a lawyer.
> 
> Go hard and hope things settle in the middle. Believe nothing a cheating back stabbed tells you. Many here have had the rug pulled out from other them by their "nice" wife.


I agree^^^^. 

Your wife is lying. Do really think that the the OM would quit his job in the middle of a divorce??? 

You really need to expose this affair!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Divorce as fast as possible and to your advantage. You can take care of her however you want, but don't be legally bound to.
She is a cheater. As Phoenix said so eloquently: "I kicked his ass to the curb and he wants to be all lovey dovey. F him."
I do agree that's exactly how she feels. Treat her accordingly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Take her for everything you can get, but don't forget she will still have to take care of your children. Either way, assume she will fight, so get the best lawyer you can afford.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Brian seems to clearly understand how his actions contributed to his wife's loss of interest and likely the ultimate end of his marriage. You guys can continue to beat the drum that, "don't accept any of the blame for her affair" if you like. But if you believe you can treat a wife anyway you please and she won't loss interest in staying with you, and will continue to love you despite your treatment, you're playing a fools game.
> There's a very big difference between being an alpha male and a challenge and just being a SOB. When women are married to SOBs, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs, she his three options; stay, leave, or cheat. Some will choose cheating to seek comfort in the arms of a lover, while letting the SOB, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs maintain the home front. She's thinking, "sure it would disappoint him, but what the hell, he's disappointed me with his shyt. Like my neighbor said, "for years he neglected me and the family and treated us like we were dogs. After I kicked his azz to the curb and started dating, he wants to be lovey dovey and become the perfect husband. He can go F himself."


If the OP was that bad, she should have divorced him period!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Don't construe what I said a somehow justifying an affair. I'm saying its the road some will take rather than divorce. In any case a man can't knowingly treat their wife badly (and that is based on perspective) and become a innocent victim if she rises up against him in a manner that he didn't expect.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Don't construe what I said a somehow justifying an affair. I'm saying its the road some will take rather than divorce. In any case a man can't knowingly treat their wife badly (and that is based on perspective) and become a innocent victim if she rises up against him in a manner that he didn't expect.


I knew what you meant; he may have had a divorce coming, but cheating he did not earn.
If you were the recipient of a betrayal, you'd understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Graywolf2 said:


> *If you want a divorce *the smart thing to do is play nice and speed things up. Now she’s in the fog and looking forward to her new life with her OM. She doesn’t care all that much about the terms of the divorce because the OM will help her pay her bills. Plus she’s in love.
> 
> Don’t mention spilling the beans about her affair. If she asks you directly say that you haven’t made up your mind. Don’t come out and say it but keep it as a veiled threat since she cares about her reputation. When you’re negotiating the divorce terms that will be in the background. She will think if I don’t give a little on this he may tell everyone. Also she will be concerned that you could make the OM’s divorce very difficult.
> 
> ...


Just make sure the "veiled threat" is never made explicit or even made with any type of language that could be used to accuse you of extortion.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Brian seems to clearly understand how his actions contributed to his wife's loss of interest and likely the ultimate end of his marriage. You guys can continue to beat the drum that, "don't accept any of the blame for her affair" if you like. But if you believe you can treat a wife anyway you please and she won't loss interest in staying with you, and will continue to love you despite your treatment, you're playing a fools game.
> There's a very big difference between being an alpha male and a challenge and just being a SOB. When women are married to SOBs, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs, she his three options; stay, leave, or cheat. Some will choose cheating to seek comfort in the arms of a lover, while letting the SOB, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs maintain the home front. She's thinking, "sure it would disappoint him, but what the hell, he's disappointed me with his shyt. Like my neighbor said, "for years he neglected me and the family and treated us like we were dogs. After I kicked his azz to the curb and started dating, he wants to be lovey dovey and become the perfect husband. He can go F himself."


The vast majority of cheating spouses are treated just fine by their partners. Yet, they cheat regardless.
If there is neglect or abuse( which is often fictitious)as the above poster mentions there are honorable options.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Don't construe what I said a somehow justifying an affair. I'm saying its the road some will take rather than divorce. In any case a man can't knowingly treat their wife badly (and that is based on perspective) and become a innocent victim if she rises up against him in a manner that he didn't expect.


One need not be perfect to expect another to stick to the vows. I would never, ever trust a cheater re the representations made about the betrayed spouse.
And, in the aftermath of cheating, a betrayed spouse very often exaggerates any imperfection he or she may have had in an effort to understand the cheating or get a feeling of control.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You can learn what you did wrong in this marriage to be better.

For your next one. Not this one.

And be careful to accept too much blame for her cheating. You contributed to the conditions that helped her to want to cheat, but she alone made that decision.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Perhaps you can try to change into the great, loving, concerned and genuine best friend that she told you she was craving. Be a better partner than the OM and win back her attention!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> B, sorry you in this mess, but do this for yourself.
> 
> Go James Bond. All your info seem to come from the very one who betrayed you.
> 
> ...


Lookit, Brian. You ALREADY KNOW all you need to know, to make the decisions you need to make.
1. She had a sexual affair.
2. She still has feelings for the OM.
3. She is putting the OM and his feelings ahead of your interests.
4. She is not remorseful, nor repentant.
What more do you need to know? Do you REALLY need to know how many times they f**ked, or talked to each other? What earthly good would a VAR or any other spying do? She works with the OM, for Chrissakes, she doesn't NEED to call him or text him, when all she needs to do is walk across the hall and talk to him, in person.
Women desire and respect decisive , confident men. They DO NOT respect or desire Beta men who use underhanded and sneaking methods like this. You have your info, now you need to act upon it for your own benefit and your kids. Time to show her what you are made of, be up front about your requirements, and what you expect of her. Don't ask, DEMAND. My advice is to politely and maturely divorce her butt and for both of you to try to be good co-parents.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps you can try to change into the great, loving, concerned and genuine best friend that she told you she was craving. Be a better partner than the OM and win back her attention!



Sarcasm? I hope.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps you can try to change into the great, loving, concerned and genuine best friend that she told you she was craving. Be a better partner than the OM and win back her attention!


Yes, reward her for cheating, as I am sure, as a cheater, she was just perfect prior top cheating and you owe that to her:nerd:


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Ruin her reputation? You can't do that. She has already done it. What reason do you think she will give everyone for the reason for your divorce? She WILL make you the bad guy. Tell the truth. Tell everyone the truth. Her parents, the pastor of your church, her boss, and for God's sake tell OM's wife! Separated or not, she deserves to know as well, especially since many an OM has only claimed he was separated.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I knew what you meant; he may have had a divorce coming, but cheating he did not earn.
> If you were the recipient of a betrayal, you'd understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think I'd ever phrase it as, "they earned it" (except I think a BS has earned to right to a hall pass if they desire it). I'm saying if you put your spouse (male or female) on ignore, you may get a dose of medicine that goes down really hard. 
I'm just taking a face value what Brian fessed up to. It it were that bad, she could have stayed, left, or cheated. She, like many more, chose door three. Now he has the same choice.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Good for you for having the balls to divorce her. Bad for you that you were a ****ty husband. Do better next time


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Maxo said:


> Yes, reward her for cheating, as I am sure, as a cheater, she was just perfect prior top cheating and you owe that to her:nerd:


Yeah....this is one of my favorite pieces of WS bullsh*t too.

They act as if they have been living with some monster while themselves being paragons of virtue and self-sacrifice for so long.

My bet is that PRIOR to the A, the cheater was the more flawed and selfish of the partners even then....it's this selfishness that allowed them to turn into a f*cking traitor in the first place.

No one's perfect, but this idea that the flaws of a BS is what 'created' the dynamic for an A is all self-justifying horsesh*t.

IMO, in most infidelity cases, the A is usually the cherry on top of a huge pile of selfish, entitled, and neglectful behavior that the BS has been tolerating from their eventual WS for years prior, because of their love and loyalty to the WS.

There are exceptions of course, but I don't buy this suffering sainthood to reluctant sinner dynamic that most WS's seem to immediately throw out after being caught.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> So macho man,
> You describe yourself as a man that treats his wife like a Queen and now she doesn't love you and you get no sex. Is this true or am I mistaken?


Close. I am a man that didn't treat his wife as well as he should have so she walked away from the marriage. The part where you are correct is that she does not love me. She is a walk-away wife.

Sex is touchy. Supposedly, I can "have it" whenever I want. But, to make a long story short, it appears a little too much like sex slavery to be enjoyable. I know she would I prefer that I never touch her sexually again, so I try not to..



Evinrude58 said:


> You feel you mistreated your wife and she lost her love for you (the "root" of the problem... Now you treat her well but still no love.


Exactly. There will never be again. 



Evinrude58 said:


> I'm suggesting divorcing her and moving on, trying to do his best to fix his troubles and at the same time, look only for long term relationships with loyal women. Is that cow-boyish?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




There are two trains of thought for what you do in a situation like this.: 1- Divorce. 2- Stay together for the family, living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I took that one. It was made easier in that my wife and I like each other and get along. And she will offer up at least mechanical sex. I'll take it. 

You are suggesting option 1. That is fine if it's what he wants to do.

Yes, I do feel once it's gone it's gone. And IF one is to get over nearly insurmountable odds to reconcile, it doesn't start as far down in the pit as this one. This chick is GONE.

The "cowboy" thing is the "crash her world and tell everyone in order to cut off the affair and get her back. Women leave whimps!". I don't understands what it will accomplish. But I'm backing off of that. If he wants to do it, great. I just REALLY hope he does it WITHOUT the intent on Alpha-ing his way back into her heart. She's gone.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Wow that sounds like torture.


My choice was based on the fact that my kids are with me every day. My grandkids will not have to swap between two families so I will see them more. I still like my wife. She likes me. And I can do pretty much anything I want. And I know that if I need to push the envelope I can.

I'm happy. I wouldn't WANT to find a new woman. I like what I have.

OP has two options. She offered up number 2. Doesn't matter which one he takes. And I don't care how much time he wastes spying and outing the affair. That's on him. It won;t get better. He can see it either now or after a long drawn out ordeal.

I don't care.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> Yeah....this is one of my favorite pieces of WS bullsh*t too.
> 
> They act as if they have been living with some monster while themselves being paragons of virtue and self-sacrifice for so long.
> 
> ...


Precisely


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Close. I am a man that didn't treat his wife as well as he should have so she walked away from the marriage. The part where you are correct is that she does not love me. She is a walk-away wife.
> 
> Sex is touchy. Supposedly, I can "have it" whenever I want. But, to make a long story short, it appears a little too much like sex slavery to be enjoyable. I know she would I prefer that I never touch her sexually again, so I try not to..
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> My choice was based on the fact that my kids are with me every day. My grandkids will not have to swap between two families so I will see them more. I still like my wife. She likes me. And I can do pretty much anything I want. And I know that if I need to push the envelope I can.
> 
> I'm happy. I wouldn't WANT to find a new woman. I like what I have.
> 
> ...


If don't mind me asking, how old was she when the crap hit the fan?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

MachoMcCoy said:


> My choice was based on the fact that my kids are with me every day. My grandkids will not have to swap between two families so I will see them more. I still like my wife. She likes me. And I can do pretty much anything I want. And I know that if I need to push the envelope I can.
> 
> I'm happy. I wouldn't WANT to find a new woman. I like what I have.
> 
> ...


I'm a believer that things can be changed and improved with effort. Have you tried to win her heart? Date nights? Are you taking care of your appearance? Lighting the fire will take effort, but it could be worth it. 

Please don't take my comments or questions as a put down. As a family first man, I can empathize with your desire to keep the family together. I just think numbing your heart through a 180 is the answer.


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## wizernow (Dec 31, 2015)

Hi. I really feel for you. 

Marriage builders web site isn't perfect, but there are lot's of good articles. One talks about the wayward spouse going through a period of withdrawal where they will be grumpy, etc. It can take a month or two to get past the immediate withdrawal symptoms.

I have a little bit of experience with it as i was in kind of an EA. I was pretty smitten with one of my neighbors. She saw me as a good friend. When I realized how inappropriate my thoughts toward her were, I cut off all ties with her for a few months. Feelings can subside.

But your wife must be committed to no contact, transparency, etc. Marriage builders calls it "taking extraordinary precautions". Among those, 

your wife or OM change jobs
wife changes phone number
wife changes her email
no contact with OM for life
exposure


Several more. You were not perfect. I'm sure your wife wasn't either. But do you remember in your marriage vows "for better or worse?" 

If you want to give her a chance, communicate that you expect her to do heavy lifting. And be prepared to move on if she doesn't. You can't control her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Graywolf2 said:


> After being caught the wife sometimes freaks out and suddenly discovers how very much they love their husband and will do anything to R.
> 
> I always wanted the husband to say: “If you love me so much why don’t you give me the same deal that you gave the other man. We can get a divorce and I will get no strings attached sex. He can mow the lawn. “



Gawd I love this!

OM has already beat around her +bush+es.

Now he should mow the grass. This is only fair, Eh?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jsmart said:


> Have you tried to win her heart? Date nights? Are you taking care of your appearance?


Of course. They don't come back.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Has she ever said whether or not she wishes it could come back? This is so troubling.

Based on your experience, would you always recommend divorce when no kids are involved and the wife has fallen out of love?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> She says she just needs time to get over him because she was in love, and she needs to get over the loss of her after-work hobbies, because he goes to those same activities so she can't anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Leave the affair, this in itself is divorce worthy. You absolutely seem to have no standards for yourself.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> Yesterday evening I texted and she didn't respond for 30 minutes. I knew something was up so I called and she sounded sad. I got her to confess she was said because POS put in his 2 weeks notice and was leaving because he couldn't be around her and not have her.
> 
> So I told her I am no longer trying to fix this. I told her to go stay at her mom's while I get the divorce stuff straightened out. She texted and said she was sorry and I deserve better. I said I know. Later she texted and asked if I was going to fight her on the divorce. I responded to not talk to me anymore and just be at the house at 5am to get the kids for school. She came this morning and left for work without even looking at her.
> 
> ...



She did not end the affair and was lying to you all this time about not talking to him and stuff. 

She went to him and probably spent the night there.

She was not even trying because she detached a long time back.


Do tell close mutual friends and family in an appropriate way. "She was having an affair for the last one year and she wouldn't end it even after I found out". You need to tell them to protect you own reputation and how she will spin the story back on to you(she might accuse you of alcoholism or even abuse

Definitely tell his wife. Imagine you being in her place and you in hers. Wouldn;t you want to know why your wife is suddenly divorcing you ?


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

Expose as to why you are divorcing and you are not being mean just acting in your best interests also if you do decide to work it out at a later date then you do so from a position of strength


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Brian seems to clearly understand how his actions contributed to his wife's loss of interest and likely the ultimate end of his marriage. You guys can continue to beat the drum that, "don't accept any of the blame for her affair" if you like. But if you believe you can treat a wife anyway you please and she won't loss interest in staying with you, and will continue to love you despite your treatment, you're playing a fools game.
> There's a very big difference between being an alpha male and a challenge and just being a SOB. When women are married to SOBs, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs, she his three options; stay, leave, or cheat. Some will choose cheating to seek comfort in the arms of a lover, while letting the SOB, weak mommy boys, and neglecting slugs maintain the home front. She's thinking, "sure it would disappoint him, but what the hell, he's disappointed me with his shyt. Like my neighbor said, "for years he neglected me and the family and treated us like we were dogs. After I kicked his azz to the curb and started dating, he wants to be lovey dovey and become the perfect husband. He can go F himself."


We dont expect a "wronged wife" to not react or even lash out - we do expect everyone to behave morally and cheating is immoral. She has now sunk lower than SOBs, weak mommy boys and neglecting slugs. She has become a cheating wh0re! She could have divorced him and left.



ThePheonix said:


> Don't construe what I said a somehow justifying an affair. I'm saying its the road some will take rather than divorce. In any case a man can't knowingly treat their wife badly (and that is based on perspective) and become a innocent victim if she rises up against him in a manner that he didn't expect.


She didn't rise up against her husband - she responded to a primal urge to fvck a new guy that tickled her fancy! As simple as that. Rising up might have involved divorcing him, taking him to the cleaners etc.


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> ....IMO, in most infidelity cases, the A is usually the cherry on top of a huge pile of selfish, entitled, and neglectful behavior that the BS has been tolerating from their eventual WS for years prior, because of their love and loyalty to the WS.
> 
> There are exceptions of course, but I don't buy this suffering sainthood to reluctant sinner dynamic that most WS's seem to immediately throw out after being caught.


"Reality has a way of intruding. Reality eventually intrudes on everything."

At one point in time, people will realize the truth and, hey, you probably will have well moved on by that time.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> Yesterday evening I texted and she didn't respond for 30 minutes. I knew something was up so I called and she sounded sad. I got her to confess she was said because POS put in his 2 weeks notice and was leaving because he couldn't be around her and not have her.
> 
> So I told her I am no longer trying to fix this. I told her to go stay at her mom's while I get the divorce stuff straightened out. She texted and said she was sorry and I deserve better. I said I know. Later she texted and asked if I was going to fight her on the divorce. I responded to not talk to me anymore and just be at the house at 5am to get the kids for school. She came this morning and left for work without even looking at her.
> 
> ...


Actions have consequences. Has nothing to do about revenge.

You are trying to look for ways to do nothing probably in the hopes of Nicing her back. That never works. She chose her own path. 

Be carefull you don't end up living under a bridge somewhere so she can be happy. You sound extremely weak and pathetic at this time. 

You need to wake up.


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## AKA Broken Arrow (Feb 19, 2016)

wizernow said:


> Hi. I really feel for you.
> 
> Marriage builders web site isn't perfect, but there are lot's of good articles. One talks about the wayward spouse going through a period of withdrawal where they will be grumpy, etc. It can take a month or two to get past the immediate withdrawal symptoms.
> 
> ...


I had an affair last year with a colleague, about 5 mo EA and 2 weeks PA. Things ended between us when she moved away. It was exposed to my wife about 6 months after it was over. I was already over my AP but we were still in contact via text/email as friends. Once I was exposed, I cut all contact with her for good, then I took the following "extraordinary precautions":

-Showed genuine remorse, even though it is difficult for her to see it. I understand why and I keep trying.

-Attending IC and MC. My wife picked a therapist for herself, went a few times on her own and I suggested it would be a good idea if I/we see her therapist together. It's working so far.

-Read several affair books as well as the Divorce Remedy, How to Win Friends and Influence People, 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families, Married Man Sex Life Primer, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, I Love You but I Don't Trust You, etc. 

-Traded my car. I bought a new car last Sept. that I ordered from the factory. My AP helped me pick the options/color. My wife found the email, now the car is gone after 4 months. Embarrasing.

-Threw all my clothes away and bought new ones. All of my clothes had memories of the OW attached to them, so they're gone. Bought new cologne. 

-I bought a $5k watch while out with my AP one day. The watch is now on consignment in a city thousands of miles from here. It'll make a nice gift for someone.

-Disabled all social media accounts. Friends are emailing me asking me if I'm ok. Not really!

If she is not doing anything that resembles this then recovery is going to be difficult if not impossible. Our reconciliation is going very slow but I think we're going to make it. If we do make it through this, we're going to be one of those couples whose new marriage is better than it has ever been.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> If she is not doing anything that resembles this then recovery is going to be difficult if not impossible.


This is like picking at that sore on your cheek with your tongue all day. I just can't stay away. But...I...MUST!!!

She has already said she has no interest in her husband. She has already said she is done. She has done ZERO to give ANY indication that she wants to reconcile.

So, recovery will be impossible. Right? Can we get past that?

He needs to stay for thei family in a loveless marriage (her choice) or divorce. That's all. Blowing up the "affair" that has already been blown up is secondary.

What am I missing? Can I just be banned from this thread before I blow a brain gasket?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Anyone that has been here a while, has seen BS NOT DO or believe what is before them.
@Rookie, you have been saying this all alone, but what you DON'T seem to be able to understand is this "some of us in REAL life will use anything, crawl thru maggots to get the job done."

The day I worry what someone who DON'T pay my bills thinks of me, is the day, I stop being a man.

Brian like most BS is gonna cherry pick the advice so my methods are to get him to confirm.
And yes, they still work together, but Brian, the pulling away is a sure sign the a is still on.
So she WILL be calling while driving.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> I had an affair last year with a colleague, about 5 mo EA and 2 weeks PA. Things ended between us when she moved away. It was exposed to my wife about 6 months after it was over. I was already over my AP but we were still in contact via text/email as friends. Once I was exposed, I cut all contact with her for good, then I took the following "extraordinary precautions":
> 
> -Showed genuine remorse, even though it is difficult for her to see it. I understand why and I keep trying.
> 
> ...


Made restitution?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> He needs to stay for thei family in a loveless marriage (her choice) or divorce. That's all. Blowing up the "affair" that has already been blown up is secondary.
> 
> What am I missing?


Naw Dawg, you ain't missing nothing. I'd rephrase this sentence a bit based on my perception.

"He has only two choices available, 1. to stay in a loveless marriage (her choice) or 2. divorce. That's all. "


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your wife is still lying to you and trying to protect her lover boy. 

She was only right when she told you "you deserve someone better".

You really have to expose her Affair to family and close friend. She is going to start telling bad things about you and at the end you will be the bad guy,abusive husband and father. You dont want this,am I right ???

Also tell this to OMs wife. She deserves to know the truth. They are Divorcing for right reasons. This OM is really a bad person and he clearly deserves a bad woman (your wife).

Talk with your lawyer and see you options about custody,money,house ...

Dont beg,dont cry and dont let her see you crushed. 

Stay strong




Dont tell her your next move,suprise her with it. Server her at the work with her lover boy there.


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## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

I kicked her to the curb the other day and told her I was moving out at the end of the week to go stay with my parents. So she stayed with her mom for 3 days and I ignored her unless it concerned the divorce. She texted me once or twice to ask what I was doing, but I just said "nothing" and ignored her. I thought she might have been getting scared (or I hoped). On day 3 she went to the lawyer and discussed things and talked to me about how we were going to divide things.

I went to my therapist and he gave me a little legal advice from his experiences. He told me not to leave the house, because she could claim abandonment. I didn't want to tell her that was my reason for not going home to mom and dad, because I didn't want her to do something hateful like send me a pic of her and her AP having sex or something. So I told her to just come home and let us try to fix things one last time. 

She reluctantly decided to come home. I wanted her to see that I been going to the gym and having more energy and I am no longer depressed. She has been really angry a lot, but I have been ignoring it and we've gone to do stuff together a lot. She has been acting jealous of me, like asking why I am on my phone so much or why did I have scratches on my back (definitely not from sex). 

I tried to ask about the AP a few times but she just angrily tells me bits and pieces. She said she did talk to him a little and told him we were getting divorced and then trying again. I asked her to text him and tell him not to talk to her anymore. She got mad and said I need to trust her that she isn't going to talk to him. I just left it alone until later when she was again angry at me, and I asked her why she wouldn't text him like I asked. We fought some more until finally she showed me where she did text him and tell him she couldn't talk to him anymore and blocked his number. She also showed me where he texted and said he is upset because he is fighting his wife over their upcoming divorce and he is also hurt because my wife keeps flip flopping between divorce and reconciling with me.

So as of now we are reconciling, while I keep a secret log of who does what with the children. The therapist told me to keep this log for when we go to divorce, to help me get custody. 

I have 4 thoughts going on right now: I'll keep up with the pretend reconciling while I try to set myself up for a better bargain in the divorce. Also, I know her AP wants her to get divorced--so I am preventing that for him. Thirdly, I am hoping she will see she was wrong and fall back in love with me, and i can hit her with the divorce then or have an affair and hurt her. And lastly, there is a fraction of a chance we could both change and fall back in love. 

I feel like the right thing to do would be to tell her we are getting divorced and that I am not leaving until I am forced to. But I am afraid of her just running to her AP that much faster. At least by sneaking around like I am and being a wimp, I have a few more options and advantages, and I get to let her see that I am getting in shape and being happier. I also get the occasional sex and get to see my kids everyday. 

But the disadvantages are that she is confusing the hell out of me by being happy a little while and then angry. My family, who have never experienced this, keep telling me that if she is home, then that means she is trying to reconcile And i should accept that and just treat her good. But from the advice in this thread and other posts, it doesn't look like she is trying very hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I would keep my cards close to the chest on this one, i agree that you want her to think you are in reconcile mode, while at that same time you are gather info, also I think that your right, limit her options with the AP, right now she is weighing her options, stay with you or go with him. I would tell her that you are getting a STD test and she should too..to remind her of her transgressions, plus that is a record that you can use in court. i would also let the OM wife know as well. and when she gets angry with you, this is when you remain clam and look her straight in the eyes and tell, between the two of us , who truly should be angry with the other, besides anger on her looks less remorseful, remind her of that.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> We dont expect a "wronged wife" to not react or even lash out - we do expect everyone to behave morally and cheating is immoral.


It ain't Burger King my man. You don't always get your way. (or what you expect)




brian6173 said:


> I have 4 thoughts going on right now: I'll keep up with the pretend reconciling while I try to set myself up for a better bargain in the divorce. Also, I know her AP wants her to get divorced--so I am preventing that for him. Thirdly, I am hoping she will see she was wrong and fall back in love with me, and i can hit her with the divorce then or have an affair and hurt her. And lastly, there is a fraction of a chance we could both change and fall back in love.


Are you in politics or a bureaucrat?


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

Don't try to nice her back.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

I think your wife sounds like an evil nutjob. I hope you can get out with semi favorable terms.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife has no remorse at all, and no respect for you. The anger says it all. She is angry that you've screwed up her fun with the AP.

I'd tell the OM's wife if it's the last thing I ever did.

I'd also keep the log like you're doing, and quietly plan the divorce as best I could. From what you describe, she is NEVER going to change her ways. After she's done with this guy, there will be others.

Please hire a lawyer and plan accordingly before she leaves you in your parent's basement seeing your kids every other weekend dhole you pay her to screw other dudes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> *It ain't Burger King my man. You don't always get your way. (or what you expect)
> *
> 
> 
> ...


No sh!t? Really? Into my book on pearls of wisdom this goes! Really, thanks for that!

On a separate note ...

Brian, you really seem to have gone from wanting her back to definitely not wanting her back. If this is so, block her, ignore any "photos of her fvcking the POSOM" she might send etc. This is unhealthy and you need to expedite this divorce efficiently and effectively as quick as you can. Lawyer up, and start the process. Do not abandon the house etc. Do the 180 i.e. focus on your well being and recovery. And blow up the [email protected]'s life by forming an alliance with his wife - share info etc. And carry on improving your health and fitness.

Sneaking around has its advantages in the discovery stage but once you have decided to divorce and evidence of adultery has no effect on the divorce, proceed full speed ahead - be the better person.


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## brian6173 (Mar 5, 2016)

I just found out about the A 2 weeks ago, so I am still going through an emotional Rollercoaster but trying to not let her see that. This would be a lot easier if I felt like I had been a perfect husband, but I lied about drinking constantly and pretty much ignored her for the 15 years we have been together. So I don't blame her at all for leaving the marriage emotionally about 2 years ago. But I do blame her for not leaving me and starting the A about a year ago. I quit drinking and joined the gym about the same time she started the A. But she wasn't noticing because the A had started at that point.

Before I found out about the A 2 weeks ago, she said she was leaving me and it was then that I decided to go all in and win her back. But she felt bad after about 3 days of me trying, and told me about the A. She said she wanted to make us work for the kids and because it was the right thing to do. But she keeps saying she feels nothing for me anymore. But she also says she will always love me as a friend and her first lover. 

I feel like she has to be messed up too, because I was her first boyfriend, first kiss, first sex partner and first everything. So in some ways I think she may be trying to push me away and make her AP seem like he cares more for her, just so in her head she can justify her betrayal and tell herself she is not a ***** and a bad mother. I tell her that what she and her AP had is not real because they have only seen eachother at work and on the phone as they both complained about their spouses to eachother. I told her that it was easy for him to say all the right things, because all he had to say was the opposite of whatever she complained she didn't like about me. I also told her they really don't know eachother and he can't love her like I do, because they have never had to share responsibilities, live together, share chores, or take care of kids together. She will agree with me one moment, but later she will be angry at me and say he really does care more for her. All these years I have known her better than anyone, so I know she is way smarter and more emotionally grounded and could never really believe that. But I also don't know if she is either really that delusional or just trying to justify things in her mind and deal with the guilt. In the past, I was always the bad one and she was good, but now for the first time she is the bad one. So I know she has to be feeling a lot of guilt.

Her AP is getting his divorce in a couple weeks, and I want to tell his wife about the affair so she will be mad and take him to the cleaners. But if I do tell his wife, she will get my wife and her AP fired from the job they work at together. Also, that will make it much easier for them to have a relationship once everything is out in the open. But I am also running out of time for telling his wife to have any effect, since they are filing for divorce in 2 weeks. 

I guess I will just keep up with the pretend reconciliation and keep preparing for my divorce. But it is painful seeing her everyday and knowing she has the power to resume the affair and hurt me even more. 

Does anyone know of a good article I can let her read to help her see that the affair is not real love? I want her to realize what she is losing in me, so the divorce will hurt her that much more, but also in case we both have a huge change of heart and learn to love eachother again and end up having a real reconciling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Resume? It never stopped.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Brian if you have an airplane write "Love me, not him" in the sky do you think that might help?

You cannot make someone love you. How she feels is how she feels. The more you pull the more she will push away, and the nastier she will become towards you.

Doing these things you suggest is natural reaction for a BS. Heck I tried them. It will only justify her feelings. She is trying to tell you how she feels and you, the big jerk, won't listen and respect her.

Start reading the threads on your post again from the beginning. Everyone told you what to do already. We all know how difficult it is to believe, but the more you do things your way the worse it will be for you. There are countless other posters here that don't listen either, I've never seen the marriage work for them.

Yes there is something wrong with her right now. But until she sees you disconnect, all she will see is some A-hole that is trying to pathetically tell her she is wrong while he acts like a spineless doormat.

This is a crucial time for you. Blow off the advice given here at your peril. You can be just like the rest of us who refused to step up only to figure it out when it's too late.

You won't listen to our advice, what makes you think she will listen to yours?


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Also why on earth would you live in fear of them and not tell the OM wife? Grow a pair!

At this point, you cannot worry about the 2 cheating idiots. I promise they do not worry about you at all. 

Do NOT discuss anything with your wife. Nuke the hell out of them and reclaim your life! Stop worrying!!!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

If the OBS knew she would make life for POSOM hell. He may loath the day he met your wife if OBS files for full everything. She can make him cring at the sound of your wife's name and avoid her. Which will blow up her little fantasy.....if only you were not scared of your wife....

Do you have proof of divorce from OBS or is that some **** your lying, cheating wife relayed to you. The OBS may put his ass in the poor house with info from you that he is cheating on her. 

You not playing hard ball, shows her you are WEAK which is very big turn off.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

been away for a looong while, but had to chime in.




> Her AP is getting his divorce in a couple weeks, and I want to tell his wife about the affair so she will be mad and take him to the cleaners. But if I do tell his wife, she will get my wife and her AP fired from the job they work at together. Also, that will make it much easier for them to have a relationship once everything is out in the open. But I am also running out of time for telling his wife to have any effect, since they are filing for divorce in 2 weeks.


are you ****tin' me... you mean to say that you haven't informed this woman's husband, nor exposed their workplace affair? they are still in the affair because you are so hesitant to do something that attaches some concrete ramifications. where are the consequences for their horrible behavior.

listen very carefully... you can't save your marriage unless you're willing to risk losing it. this is an attack on your marriage and your family that this man has thrust upon you. don't you think his wife has just as much right to know as you do?

you need to start playing hardball, because it looks like it's the bottom of the 9th and you're waaay behind. you might lose this because of your extreme "prudence" over this matter.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your wife IS NOT messed up,you are my Friend. 

She is doing anything she wants,walking all over you,rubing her Affair in front of yor nose and knowing there is no consequences for her actions.

If her life goes south and her plans dont work with this OM she will come back to you until she finds another suc..ker.

Take care


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Do yourself a favor and tell the OM wife, and i would not worry about the OM's wife going tot he company because she will also know that if the OM loses his job he will not be able to pay for alimony or child support...but at least your not the only one feeling the pain, also understand this, your wife is in a fog and one that she will not listen to you, nor does she really want too. so whether they are together or not in her mind they are already together. its time to shake things loose and see what happens, also i would remind your wife that you too could go to the company and burn both of them.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> I just found out about the A 2 weeks ago, so I am still going through an emotional Rollercoaster but trying to not let her see that. This would be a lot easier if I felt like I had been a perfect husband, but I lied about drinking constantly and pretty much ignored her for the 15 years we have been together. So I don't blame her at all for leaving the marriage emotionally about 2 years ago. But I do blame her for not leaving me and starting the A about a year ago. I quit drinking and joined the gym about the same time she started the A. But she wasn't noticing because the A had started at that point.
> 
> Before I found out about the A 2 weeks ago, she said she was leaving me and it was then that I decided to go all in and win her back. But she felt bad after about 3 days of me trying, and told me about the A. She said she wanted to make us work for the kids and because it was the right thing to do. But* she keeps saying she feels nothing for me anymore.* But she also says she will always love me as a friend and her first lover.
> 
> ...


Your wife's logical side is thinking I should work it out with my husband for the kids and our history but her heart & body belong to POS already. It's a tough battle because by the time a woman gives herself to another man, she's replaced her husband. Once replaced, it's hard to win her back. 

You have got to expose her affair to her family & friends. Not just as a punishment but as in help me fight for my family. You need to confirm that this POS is really getting a divorce. Many waywards will lie about their affair partner getting or already divorced as a preemptive move to protect their OM from their BH from bothering to expose.

I told you on several post earlier, you must confront this POS in person. This guy is fvcking the mother of your children but I'm not sensing any anger. Just timidness. The bold one gets the girl. If you want a chance at crushing this and winning her back, you must show your wife with actions that you're fighting for her and your family. This POS is just a horny loser douche that thinks he wants your wife. He'll want her without your kids but with your kids in the picture, she's not as attractive. Does this guy want to go to war. That's what you're in right now. WAR.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Xenote said:


> Do yourself a favor and tell the OM wife, and i would not worry about the OM's wife going tot he company because she will also know that if the OM loses his job he will not be able to pay for alimony or child support.....its time to shake things loose and see what happens, also i would remind your wife that you too could go to the company and burn both of them.


Agreed. He should tell OM wife tomorrow. But I don't think he should threaten anything. Keep completely quiet and do it all from the advantage of surprise. Never reveal to your wife what you think, what you might do, etc... tell her any questions should go to your lawyer.

Making decisions and acting on them, not threatening, will be 10x as effective (my opinion).

If you want to snap her out of this, if it's even possible, this is the only thing that might work.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

brian6173 said:


> I kicked her to the curb the other day and told her I was moving out at the end of the week to go stay with my parents. So she stayed with her mom for 3 days and I ignored her unless it concerned the divorce. She texted me once or twice to ask what I was doing, but I just said "nothing" and ignored her. I thought she might have been getting scared (or I hoped). On day 3 she went to the lawyer and discussed things and talked to me about how we were going to divide things.
> 
> I went to my therapist and he gave me a little legal advice from his experiences. He told me not to leave the house, because she could claim abandonment. I didn't want to tell her that was my reason for not going home to mom and dad, because I didn't want her to do something hateful like send me a pic of her and her AP having sex or something. So I told her to just come home and let us try to fix things one last time.
> 
> ...



The plan won't work. Your emotions and pain are making you take some not so rational decisions. You know in your heart that this plan has absolutely no chance of succeeding, don;t you ?

File for divorce. Detach and maybe even start dating. You are not going to win her back with your current approach. if at all, you will lose the last remains of self dignity you might have left


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

> Her AP is getting his divorce in a couple weeks, and I want to tell his wife about the affair so she will be mad and take him to the cleaners. But if I do tell his wife, she will get my wife and her AP fired from the job they work at together. Also, that will make it much easier for them to have a relationship once everything is out in the open. But I am also running out of time for telling his wife to have any effect, since they are filing for divorce in 2 weeks.



This is a defeatist way of thinking. Tell his wife. When he is busy putting out the fires in his backyard, you will have more time to make a point and it will also become more evident to your wife. Lets see if he can give her 100% attention whith him losing his job and his ex hot on his heels and his ass on fire.

Not telling his wife is the worst thing you are doing here. If at all you take one single advice from this forum, please tell his wife. She will also give you info about the OM from the other side that can be very useful to you.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

You cannot make your wife love you. You have got to grow some ba11s and expose her. We know that you're angry, hurt, confused etc... Pick yourself up and do the 180. You're not doing this to win her back, you're doing it for you to gain your confidence and self respect back. If she does come back then great (no idea why you would want her back after she's told you she doesn't love you anymore). Your wife needs to know that her actions have consequences and in order for her to feel the burn you must expose to the OBS. This is crucial!! File for D, this will let her know that you mean business and are willing to live without her. You can always stop the precedings later.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

look, even if you were the ****tiest husband on planet Earth, she should have just left you instead of humiliating you by cheating on you. so she isn't faultless either. stop blaming yourself, get rid of this ***** and start over.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

How do you know they are actually divorcing? That may just be a line he is feeding her to keep her on the line.


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