# What would you do?



## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Some of you know my background in that I'm seeing another guy and I'm not yet divorced. We've hashed that over and I'm not asking for opinions on that please. I'm separated, that's good enough for me.

I need advice on how to deal with the following situation. I like this new guy alot, there is so many great qualities about our relationship but there is one common theme that keeps driving a wedge between us. His EXW is an alcoholic. This was the reason for the breakdown in their marriage. They have 2 sons, 4 and 9. He has primary custody of them due to not being able to trust her to remain sober enough around them.

As a result of years of her behaviour, he's understandably sensitive to the subject of alcohol. He tells me he doesn't mind having a couple, and although he rarely does, he did when he last visited me (it's an LDR). He tells me he doesn't mind when I have some as he understands that I don't have children or the commitments. I have the odd glass of wine during the week, and on occasions with friends or family it can be more, and yes sometimes I wake up with a thick head and regret drinking too much, but that's once every couple of months or so. He tells me he doesn't see my drinking as the same as hers. But his actions tell me otherwise.

Last week, his EXW went on a major bender. It resulted in her being taken to hospital. Her family tried to have her taken into rehab but it seems that's not possible without her consent. She ended up not having the boys on her weekend. They were understandably upset although he made excuses as to why not. We made the time as fun for them as possible to distract them from it.

Anyway, every time I go to see my family, it usually results in one too many drinks. My Dad is ex military, I guess it's just a way of life. They don't do it all the time either, but usually when there's a gathering. I've been to see my family 3 times since I have been seeing this new guy (I live far away from family & friends), and each time we've ended up having a major conversation and conflict over the fact drinking is happening. We talk it through and I feel we move forward. The last time I went to my family, after we talked, I told him I feel he's ruining all of those occasions for me, that it's not fair. I socialise so infrequently as I live alone and know no one here that it's not right that he takes that away from me with his behaviour during those times. I've told him I will not become tee total, I will not be something I am not because he is overly sensitive, but I will talk to him and I will try to help him through this. Again he tells me he doesn't see what I do as anything in comparison and he knows it's his issue to work through.

My best friend is coming to stay tomorrow for one night as she is having some relationship issues. She needs to get away. It will most likely result in having one too many glasses of wine, tears and putting the world to rights. I've just received a message from him telling me he's already struggling with it. Straight away that's put me on edge. I don't want to upset him, but I feel he's already taking that away from me. 

What would you do? If this was the only issue between you and someone having a great relationship, how would you handle it? Am I being unfair for refusing to become tee total to support him through this? I feel like I need to be honest to who I am, and that I would fail if I made him those promises, and that I don't feel I should for the occasional heavier session.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MarmiteC said:


> What would you do?


I would only drink when he is not there. If you are planning to go on a "bender", make sure you do it in his absence. It's matter of respect. You can do that, surely?


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I would only drink when he is not there. If you are planning to go on a "bender", make sure you do it in his absence. It's matter of respect. You can do that, surely?


I don't go on 'benders' unless you call occasionally having one glass too many a bender? However, it is only done when he's not there. And then he will call me, ask why I'm not messaging with him. He's so insecure about it all. So yes, I agree I can and am respectful with him, then he still wants my attention during that time. We're talking one evening here, we're not talking days.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MarmiteC said:


> I don't go on 'benders' unless you call occasionally having one glass too many a bender?


Yes, the occasional "bender"...  But it doesn't matter what they are.

Can you explain to him what you told us here? If he is so unreasonable about it, I don't see a future in your relationship. Relationships are all about compromising. He can't be so needy.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

I have. We have discussed it and he tells me he knows he doesn't handle it well, he tells me he knows he takes it out on me unfairly. He says he will leave be when he knows these occasions are happening. It's not even happened yet and again I get a message.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MarmiteC said:


> I have. We have discussed it and he tells me he knows he doesn't handle it well, he tells me he knows he takes it out on me unfairly. He says he will leave be when he knows these occasions are happening. It's not even happened yet and again I get a message.


mmm.... not great. To be honest, I don't know what to suggest. Very tricky stuff. But maybe you will have to upset him a bit, in order for him to "get it"...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You talk about having "one too many" a lot.

There are lots of people who don't wake up feeling like crap because they had "one too many" once again. I think he is better suited to be with one of them instead.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You and your guy are not compatible. Unless you stop drinking to excess, even occasionally, then this will always be an issue. Essentially, he just doesn't trust you when you're drinking more than he thinks is okay. He's got baggage from his experience with his ex-wife. His baggage means he's just fundamentally not okay with what seems to be a permanent facet of your lifestyle. That doesn't make either of you wrong, it just makes you incompatible.

By the way, spouses of addicts are notorious for being codependent. And his behavior definitely has the vibe of codependency. That's something he'll need to fix if he wants to be in healthy relationships going forward. But it's not something you can fix for him. And you shouldn't try.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MarmiteC said:


> I have. We have discussed it and he tells me he knows he doesn't handle it well, he tells me he knows he takes it out on me unfairly. He says he will leave be when he knows these occasions are happening. It's not even happened yet and again I get a message.


What type of message? Is he reminding you to not get wasted?


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

No. This morning's was: 'Maybe it's best I don't know how Wednesday night ends. I can already tell I am going to struggle with it'. 

Last time I was with my family, I didn't message for about an hour as we were chatting, he called me. I asked him why as he doesn't like to be involved on those occasions, he said because I wasn't messaging. 

Rowan gave some helpful insight above I think. I've said before I think this is an issue and will always be an issue and one I don't think we can overcome, he doesn't want to believe it. The insight into codependency above is new for me. Looks like I have some thinking and reading to do


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MarmiteC said:


> Last time I was with my family, I didn't message for about an hour as we were chatting, he called me.


A whole hour??? Good grief, that is ridiculous. Do you guys text constantly throughout the day? Are you good with that (asking because that would not fly with me at all)?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

MarmiteC said:


> Some of you know my background in that I'm seeing another guy and I'm not yet divorced. We've hashed that over and I'm not asking for opinions on that please. I'm separated, that's good enough for me.
> 
> I need advice on how to deal with the following situation. I like this new guy alot, there is so many great qualities about our relationship but there is one common theme that keeps driving a wedge between us. His EXW is an alcoholic. This was the reason for the breakdown in their marriage. They have 2 sons, 4 and 9. He has primary custody of them due to not being able to trust her to remain sober enough around them.
> 
> ...


EASY.

You two just aren't compatible. 

You may not be a drunk but it is obvious you like to drink and you mentioned several times in your comments "a few too many", "waking up with a thick head" so you are obviously by your own words sort of a heavy drinker. Both of you should just realize that you guys aren't really a good fit. This issue should be big enough for one of you to be logical and say "this really isn't gonna work".....call it a day and move on.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

He needs to go to al-anon or something like that. He needs help. It sounds stupid, but he's been abused too and has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. His complete and utter aversion to it is also an unhealthy model for his children. They need to know it CAN be problematic, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

I'm the child of a massive abusive alcoholic. I completely avoided drinking most of the way through college and I got overprotective and annoyed when my GF went out drinking. It cost me that relationship. Not her, and her drinking. Me, and my inability to handle it in a healthy way. Totally my fault. He needs help. You don't need to change your behavior for him. 

He needs to develop a healthy relationship with alcohol and the fact that not everyone will have an inability to control themselves and abuse it.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

He's got control issues & booze is a real trigger. He needs to know where you are all the time which is not healthy but it comes from his EX-W being out of control. He sees all alcohol as bad. 

You can't fix this unless you are willing to quit drinking all together. 

He might have been a fun transition man while your divorce is pending but IMO it is too impractical to make this work so let it go. 

Go glue your friend back together. You can use her being at your house as a place / reason to drown your own sorrows, safely & responsibly, after this break up


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> What type of message? Is he reminding you to not get wasted?


Honestly it does feel intense, so this is why the codependency thing is insightful.



hinterdir said:


> EASY.
> 
> You two just aren't compatible.
> 
> You may not be a drunk but it is obvious you like to drink and you mentioned several times in your comments "a few too many", "waking up with a thick head" so you are obviously by your own words sort of a heavy drinker. Both of you should just realize that you guys aren't really a good fit. This issue should be big enough for one of you to be logical and say "this really isn't gonna work".....call it a day and move on.


I see this. I would like to change this (to a point) for me. But I don't want it to be a never thing either.



Zedd said:


> I'm the child of a massive abusive alcoholic. I completely avoided drinking most of the way through college and I got overprotective and annoyed when my GF went out drinking. It cost me that relationship. Not her, and her drinking. Me, and my inability to handle it in a healthy way. Totally my fault. He needs help. You don't need to change your behavior for him.
> 
> He needs to develop a healthy relationship with alcohol and the fact that not everyone will have an inability to control themselves and abuse it.


This is an interesting alternative perspective.

I guess this is how I feel: can I find a way to reduce my consumption and also find a way that he can accept some level of it? Not as a 'compromise', but a new way we can both be naturally ok with everything and avoid the conflict it causes. A healthy relationship with it on both sides.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> can I find a way to reduce my consumption and also find a way that he can accept some level of it? Not as a 'compromise', but a new way we can both be naturally ok with everything and avoid the conflict it causes.


No. YOU can't do that because HE won't accept anything having to do with alcohol. He's too damaged from his EX who remains an on-going problem. This is not within your control.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

I would come to the realization that we aren't a good fit. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship if I knew one of my favorite past times was triggering my partner to that degree.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MarmiteC said:


> Not as a 'compromise', but a new way we can both be naturally ok with everything and avoid the conflict it causes. A healthy relationship with it on both sides.


it would be a "compromise". But it won't work unless he accepts something which is quite normal... having a couple of drinks occasionally. So, you need to make it clear and maybe he needs more therapy to deal with his alcohol-phobia, which impacts negatively on your relationship. Of course, the alternative would be for you to ditch alcohol completely. Maybe he is not worth it?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, your guy is in to policing your behavior. It's what he's used to doing with a partner, like he had - and, it sounds like, _still _has - to do with his ex-wife. It's why he freaks when he doesn't hear from you for a whole hour. He doesn't trust you not to have done something stupid/inappropriate during that hour. Because his ex-wife would have. He, viscerally, doesn't think you can take care of, control, yourself. Because his ex-wife couldn't, and still doesn't. 

Do you really want a relationship based on you paying for the sins of his ex-wife? One where your partner doesn't really trust you to manage your own behavior? One where your partner is perpetually trying to control you into behaving in ways he finds acceptable?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I guess I don't see the real problem here. You boyfriend has had trauma in his life involving alcohol. 
If you like him and want the relationship to progress you need to prove to him you are a safe partner for him. You say you don't drink that much but it seems you've had a few benders since you been dating. If you want a relationship, you should give up alcohol. I don't know why that would be hard. You can be around people drinking without drinking. If you can't then that's a problem.

If you don't like him enough to give up alcohol then please give him up. He's obviously had a real bad time with the EXW and doesn't need this stress in his life. Would it be nice if he could 'get over it' sure. But that isn't the nature of people who have lived through this kind of thing and is still living it.

It's like tell a vet with PSTD that fireworks are just noise and to get over it. A rape victim to just accept it. It would be great if they could but harder to do than to say.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Since some age or, pehaps, some stage of life, we all come with our baggage. 
Some of them heavier ones.
And from all of them, few are harder than the ones that harm our kids, specially if from the other one parent (I trully know about).
This may entail to develope an almost reflex warning us what would be safe or not so much, both for the kids and us in a conjectural future with the one we are dating. And very specially for the "single" parent with complete custody.
Believe me, I know, it´s not easy to overcome such a thing, when the previous experience was bold.
So, you both may find wise to consider if you have a future together, besides good dating times.

About the begining context of your post (permanent separation vs divorce), I have no reason to make critics.
I´ve been there and so was the lady that once was the love of my life.

Wish and hope the best for you both.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> This is an interesting alternative perspective.
> 
> I guess this is how I feel: can I find a way to reduce my consumption and also find a way that he can accept some level of it? Not as a 'compromise', but a new way we can both be naturally ok with everything and avoid the conflict it causes. A healthy relationship with it on both sides.


You can and should do what you feel comfortable with to help. It shows you care.

But, at the end of the day, he needs to get his own help too. His approach isn't good for himself long term. He's going to have massive problems if/when his kids become teenagers and head off to college or whatever and they're out of his control. His issues are far greater than how you use alcohol.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Everything everyone is writing are thoughts I have been internalising. On all sides. I've told him I think this is too big for us. I've suggested we should split, not cruelly, but because neither of us are ready to have this relationship, and I'm not sure either of us will ever be. He doesn't want that. We talk constructively about it.

If he had zero tolerance to it, I don't understand why HE would be the one to open a beer and pour me a glass of wine with dinner when he last visited, without me asking. I've questioned whether he is also trying too hard to not upset me. I don't want to trigger him either. 
He seems ok with me drinking when I'm facetiming him, or with him, it's when I won't be available it's an issue. But those are also usually the heavier drinking times also.



Rowan said:


> OP, your guy is in to policing your behavior. It's what he's used to doing with a partner, like he had - and, it sounds like, _still _has - to do with his ex-wife. It's why he freaks when he doesn't hear from you for a whole hour. He doesn't trust you not to have done something stupid/inappropriate during that hour. Because his ex-wife would have. He, viscerally, doesn't think you can take care of, control, yourself. Because his ex-wife couldn't, and still doesn't.


I feel like I identify with this the most from everything written. And I compromised too much of myself in my marriage, I allowed behaviours to continue that weren't acceptable to me, with a view that they'd get better. Look how that worked out for me 

I do want to reduce my consumption, but for ME, not for anyone else, as I don't want to end up resenting someone else. I don't want to force him to accept something he is unhappy with either.

Thanks everyone for the insights and input. I guess there will be a very honest conversation happening later.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

MarmiteC said:


> His EXW is an alcoholic. This was the reason for the breakdown in their marriage. They have 2 sons, 4 and 9. He has primary custody of them due to not being able to trust her to remain sober enough around them.


Being married to an alcoholic is a mind and soul destroying experience. It damages you. Deeply. You can heal, but you will never be the same. This man has literally been traumatized.



MarmiteC said:


> Honestly it does feel intense, so this is why the codependency thing is insightful.


He seems very codependent. I have my damage, my husband has his. We're both codependent. We actually like it. From our point of view all close relationships such as between spouses are a bit codependent. But, for us, being spouses literally means halves of a whole. The kind of relationship we have and our day to day habits with each other would not work for a LOT of people. If a codependent relationship doesn't work for you then you need to talk to him about therapy to make him less codependent (if he wants that) or break up.



MarmiteC said:


> I see this. I would like to change this (to a point) for me. But I don't want it to be a never thing either.


Make rules. 

For example, I only drink on Saturday nights unless there is an...event. Someone dies or gets divorced or finds out their 15 year old daughter is pregnant and they want a shoulder and a drink, I'm their gal. That said, I will limit how much I drink in said scenarios because I am there to help friend, not get toasted. A drink to help the nerves, to relax and break the ice so the story can be told and feelings processed is fine. If the wounded/angry party wants more, ok. I'll just sip mine, be a pal, and make sure we get home safe. And these scenarios don't happen often. Couple or few times a year.

On Saturdays I have a set amount I drink. No more.

I only day drink on very special occasions. A niece's graduation, a wedding, a something shower, a holiday, and extreme stress and duress. Again, these things don't happen often and I limit my intake. 1-2 drinks, max, depending on the length of the occasion.




MarmiteC said:


> This is an interesting alternative perspective.
> 
> I guess this is how I feel: can I find a way to reduce my consumption and also find a way that he can accept some level of it? Not as a 'compromise', but a new way we can both be naturally ok with everything and avoid the conflict it causes. A healthy relationship with it on both sides.


My mother's mother was an alcoholic. My mother couldn't stand to see a drink in my hand. It always upset her even if it was a rare thing. She knew I wasn't a heavy drinker or alcoholic, but that didn't matter. Logic was enough that she could refrain from commenting after the one time she said her piece, but she was never comfortable with me drinking in her presence and could only politely ignore references of me drinking elsewhere.

You may be able to come to some compromise he is comfortable with or he may never truly be comfortable with you drinking, but learn to feel what he feels and let it pass through him.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Truly if you don't want to compromise on alcohol. You are right to separate.
He may not want to but I just don't see how this is going to work long term. 

I mean you like alcohol more than him. That's not a good sign for either of you.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Truly if you don't want to compromise on alcohol. You are right to separate.
> He may not want to but I just don't see how this is going to work long term.
> 
> I mean you like alcohol more than him. That's not a good sign for either of you.


I think you're missing something in my messages. I have not said I will not compromise on alcohol, in fact I have said the opposite. But I do want the relationship with it to be healthy on both sides.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

MarmiteC said:


> I think you're missing something in my messages. I have not said I will not compromise on alcohol, in fact I have said the opposite. But I do want the relationship with it to be healthy on both sides.


Actually you said you don't want to compromise too much as you did that in your last marriage.

So don't compromise. Just as YOU said end the relationship for both of your sakes.

I'd never tell a rape victim to marry a man obsessed with bondage and forceable sex. I also wouldn't advise someone who liked that kind of sex to marry a traumatized rape victim.

I don't care if you drink. But this is a major trauma for him and it isn't something he's going to compromise on. He may want to. He may tell you it's ok. He may pour you a drink. But you can see by his actions this is bothersome to him. It will be a sticking point. He can't change his trauma. Only you have the ability to change but apparently drinking is more important to you. I don't understand it but it speaks volumes to your level of empathy and commitment to him.

And that's ok. You and he just aren't compatible. You don't have to be. There are other fish in the sea.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

If my BF were overly sensitive to things like that, I would only do it when he isn't around, and would make sure that I don't announce it to him either. However, if the relationship were great, and that was a serious point of contention, I would weight out my options and how important BF is to me versus drinking. I'm 43 and have never been drunk; tipsy, sure, but never drunk as a skunk. To me, alcohol and getting drunk would take a backseat to my BF, if he were that uncomfortable. 

I don't believe in changing oneself to be in a relationship, but there's nothing wrong with tweaking and compromise. And weighing pros and cons. Really, how important to you is drinking excessively? How important is this man and his kids? Is this someone you can see yourself building a life with? If so, how is your drinking going to work if/when you move in together? TBH, it just sounds to me like you guys aren't entirely compatible.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

As you can see from your boyfriend's behavior, alcoholism affects everyone who lives with an alcoholic in a profound manner. 

Al-Anon. It's for friends and family of an alcoholic who have been impacted by the disease. Your bf isn't going to change how he reacts to drinking until he decides he needs to seriously deal with the fallout from his wife's addiction. 

He's attempting to manage your drinking. That's what happens when someone isn't seeking recovery. And, believe me, your bf is in need of recovery.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If you ever get more serious and live together, this will really be a constant problem.

Couples that work share mutual desires on a lot of day to day type things, and he seems to be one that just isn't ok with someone drinking.

This ability to enforce his opinions and judgement won't just be with alcohol in the long run.

Chalk it up to finding a red flag early on... but time to move on. There are others out there that are not like this.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

So, I asked him last night about whether he really could cope with my drinking and the level of it. I told him again I didn't think this was something we'd overcome and I also shared the thought he is policing me, before it's even happened.

He asked me a few questions, he described some situations and asked me how I envisaged my drinking in those times. I was honest. I described: girls nights out, holidays, time with my family, bad day at work etc we went through it all. His main concern is about drinking around his children and his children seeing someone drunk. He says he has zero issue with them seeing drinking, but that's not the same as seeing someone drunk. I don't drink much around children anyway, and he's seen that, if we've been facetiming and I've been having a glass of wine. He's never once shown me a reaction to that even with his children around.

I asked him what he thought my evening with my friend looked like to him. He described what I also expect would happen, he knows we will be talking and that he will not be my priority unless there's an emergency. He knows that I will not be messaging, he knows we will be drinking. He claimed to be ok with this. I did tell him I'm yet to see it from him. I told him I didn't want to trigger him, and that he needed to be honest with me tomorrow about how he feels this evening.

He acknowledged what I said about him policing me, and being codependent and needing to know what I'm doing during those times, and he said that he never knowingly or consciously did it, but he conceded he most likely did and it was something he needed to reflect upon and how he can get help for this.

On the other side, we discussed why I drink, when I drink, how I drink. I've recently come to learn I mirror others in the environment. So if it's a high energy high drinking environment, I do. If it's a couple of drinks relaxing, I also do. If it's no drinking, I'm happy not to. The other times, is to manage my emotional state. The sooner my emotional state is managed then I stop. In my 'wiser' years, I'm coming to prefer only having a couple. Not waking up with a thick head, but I still have this mirroring behaviour and managing my emotional state. I am going to work on that aspect too.

So I don't really know how this will go, but it was a long, open and honest conversation. He didn't believe we couldn't overcome this. We agreed to reflect on the conversation and see if we really feel we can move forward on this, together.

Thank you for the advice all. There were some incredibly helpful insights.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I still believe it will be difficult if your man doesn't learn how to deal with his issues. I'm glad he is exploring ways of getting help. I do drink to manage my emotional state as well, I never drink to get drunk, even if people around me are really going for it. I just hate that feeling. I also like good wine, so I drink for the taste too.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I also like good wine, so I drink for the taste too.


Me too. I stopped buying the £5 cheap pinot years ago 😆 . In fact I walked out of Sainsbury's without any wine the other day as they had zero on the shelf I knowingly like. I'd rather go without.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

MarmiteC said:


> So, I asked him last night about whether he really could cope with my drinking and the level of it. I told him again I didn't think this was something we'd overcome and I also shared the thought he is policing me, before it's even happened.
> 
> He asked me a few questions, he described some situations and asked me how I envisaged my drinking in those times. I was honest. I described: girls nights out, holidays, time with my family, bad day at work etc we went through it all. His main concern is about drinking around his children and his children seeing someone drunk. He says he has zero issue with them seeing drinking, but that's not the same as seeing someone drunk. I don't drink much around children anyway, and he's seen that, if we've been facetiming and I've been having a glass of wine. He's never once shown me a reaction to that even with his children around.
> 
> ...


Regardless of what happens with you two.....being drunk is always bad news....even though film, entertainment, friends telling stories about "I got so wasted" and making it sound like it was a harmless blast..make it sound common, expected, normal and healthy it is not. People who get drunk when they drink would have always been a red flag deal breaker. That is when the bad stuff happens....inhibitions are lowered and their is a betrayal, there is some scene or fight, there is an accident, someone takes advantage of you....spikes your drink, you pass out, you get pulled over, you make a terrible decision that affects your life in a negative way. 

You didn't say if you get drunk sometimes or not. I don't understand why this entire issue would ever even come up unless you are drinking too much. Someone just having a glass of wine with dinner or one beer to chill after work wouldn't draw out this concern from someone with a radar for drinking. It sounds like you go beyond that. You maybe act differently when you drink too. If you drink enough to where some new personality appears.....you get loud, you get abrasive or you get ultra silly and giggly. He must be seeing something from you. One glass of wine from time to time wouldn't get this response.

Once again, you two just don't sound like a good fit.


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