# Lies and pornography



## TroubledGuy (Jul 15, 2011)

I guess this is the part where I tell my story and ask for feedback.

I've lost my ways, lost sight of who I was and who I wanted and still want to be. I have no idea what's going on with me, but I need some real advice from people who know the context. So here goes.


I've been dating my current girlfriend for almost three years now. When we started we had a wonderful relationship. We outlined the gaps and weaknesses quickly and reviewed it and it looked great. And we were so incredibly happy together, and very much in love. We could spend ages just enjoying each others' presence and attention. All the lovey-dovey stuff and what-have-you-not. We promised to always be open and honest with each other, and that became the cornerstone of our relationship.

And that's where I ****ed up.

There are a few things I have to outline here, otherwise this will turn into a book. I used to be or want to be honest to a fault. It was my single greatest value, and integrity is extremely important to me. I'm not sure now whether that was how I saw myself, how I used to be, or just wishful thinking, but the fact remains that this is who I've always wanted to be. I normally consider myself a very moral person.

My girlfriend is just as irascible as I am on this one. Furthermore, and this is where the title comes in, she considers pornography to be akin to cheating. Specifically, if it's hidden from her. She's made this point very clear from the start and I didn't mind. She's also very sensitive emotionally, and has issues with depression, anxiety, and the like.

As for myself, I have to say I'm an amazing liar. I can lie about anything with a poker face and have it make perfect, even verifiable sense. I could theorize about how it started, developed, why, etc., but the fact is I have it, it's there, and I'm proficient at using it. As for my relationship with pornography, it just became something I do on occasion. I get bored, open a browser, find videos... You know the drill.

Except that I hadn't done it, out of choice, when we were dating. Not at first. I thought it was something I could just switch off, and that's partially true. But one day when she was on an errand, I calmly pulled up the computer and went about my business, and then covered it up. She casually asked and I lied to her face about it.

I still don't know what happened. I knew how hurt she would be, not only by my actions but mostly and chiefly by the fact that I've lied to her. And immediately after the fact I felt horrible about it, and about myself, and I protected myself afterwards by doing the very thing I despise most and I should never have done. I love my girlfriend deeply and completely, and I never meant to hurt her, but I did.

And it's not the end of it. This has happened a few times, and I've been caught. Immediately arguments and accusations flew, but she went on in a very mature way, though deeply hurt, and we drew up an action plan to ensure this doesn't happen again, and to strengthen our relationship. I was terribly ashamed and I vowed to be better and to make things better, with her help, and we did just that.

For about a week.

We became accustomed to each other, and drifted apart a little. I thought I was over my problem. It's not something I'm compulsed to do every time she has her back turned. Since then I've done this a few times, in full knowledge of what I was doing, lied again, and recently got caught again.

You can imagine how hurt she is, how shattered her trust is, how horrible I feel, and what this has done to our relationship. We went back to a plan, we've outlined the issues with us, we've fixed a few things, we're completely open and honest with each other, and we've found things that we didn't know were issues. We're working to change all that.

But it doesn't change the fact of what I've done, and I'm not even sure why I've done it. I had so much to lose, and I could have come clean at any point, and everything would have been much smoother. But I didn't. It's not that I didn't feel ashamed or felt (and still feel) that I'm a bad person, or that I didn't feel or don't feel guilt over it. I swore never to do it again and I've seen what this behavior has already done to us, and I've tried to change and thought I had changed. Then it happened just as easily as before. I just hid it better this time around.

So I'm troubled and confused and I'm racked with guilt and I've thought this over and over and still haven't figured it out.

My girlfriend, on the other end, has been a saint all this time. As per our original promise, she hasn't lied or treated me poorly in our almost three years together. I have no reason to hurt her, but she has every reason to leave and never look back.

We've taken precautions, I'm trying to follow our action plan and do my part, and I'm working to be the person I want to be, and I'm committed, but I still feel like a ticking time bomb, and I'm confused as to how I could ever do this to her when it has devastated her the first time.

I'm not sure if anything could make up for this level of violation of her trust, but I love her and don't want to lose her, and I know we can go back to how we were at first, if only I can figure this thing out and stop it, and really follow through with the promises and commitments I make, like she does (something else I have a problem with).

So that's it. I need your help and advice, suggestions, theories, anything you've got that could help me out. I want to make this right and I can only hope I'm not too late.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

You should have been honest with her right from the start and let her know, like my husband did me, that you enjoy it, you've always enjoyed it, it doesn't mean you don't love her, it doesn't mean that you are going to go out and screw another woman, it doesn't mean you don't like sex with her...it's just that men like to be excited. Then if you wanted, you could also lie (or tell the truth...I don't know if my husband lied or not, or just said this to make me feel better...but I prefer to stay in the dark about it) and tell her when you watch that stuff, you imagine you are doing these things to her. My husband never hid that on me, he was always honest about the male sex drive (some have more than others), and that he wasn't going to be ashamed about it. He does it because it feels good. Maybe you could watch some together. Maybe she isn't as innocent as she seems...maybe she's just shy about it. Who knows? But if you like that sort of thing, and you don't feel you want to stop or should stop doing it, then you need to convince her that it isn't as abnormal and horrible as she is thinking. 

Otherwise, if not...You'll really have to stop. :scratchhead:


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

Hi,

I am the girlfriend, obviously right now I'm being a little bit overzealous about keeping an eye on what goes on with the computer, so I was aware he wrote this and here I am I guess.

I would like to point out that it is not porn in general that I had a problem with at first, it was WHAT porn he was looking at. Essentially, this "ban" on it (unless he came up and asked if he could watch something with me, but he isn't comfortable with me knowing what he looks at apparently) came about after I found out he was searching for his _ex girlfriend_ on a prominent porn video site, looking at escort ads with her name while I was sending him apartment listings to look at, and add to that the fact that besides that, it was mostly anime porn, and the vast majority of it was sibling incest (he has sisters, it weirded me out). There were also other dubious, gross things in his history that made me nervous. (lying*****s.com, secret my-wife-doesn't-know-I-posted-this websites, severely obese women, etc)


I had never been uptight about porn, ever. He knew that. I had looked at porn with not one but two of my previous boyfriends, I have done nude modelling, and he had access to all those pictures whenever he wanted.

I told him I was uncomfortable with him looking at porn after seeing the _subjects_ he was perusing. He then proceeded to keep doing it, but deleting the history. I found out anyways because one day he hid the evidence poorly. That was just over 2 years ago.

"About six months" after I fell into a deep depression because my fiance had lied to me, he reverted back to looking at it, and I have apparently more than once asked "Did you behave yourself" when getting home, and he always said yes. During the time that he was frequently doing what I had told him amounted to cheating on me, he almost left me for "not trusting him".


This time, when I caught him, I had installed a keylogger BECAUSE I felt guilty about asking all the time. Because he always insisted he had done nothing wrong, and acted as if my accusations were painful. I figured I wouldn't need to hurt him by asking if I could just check.

The very first day he was left alone at all, he did it. I came home, checked the logger, found out, asked if he had behaved himself, got told "yes, of course!", and told him he was lying.

He denied it for fifteen minutes, made me show him the log, and told me we "must have been hacked, I swear I would NEVER do this to you!" before finally admitting he had never really stopped.

That is the problem at hand. The lying, the break of trust, the fact that he has been hiding things from me for more than half our relationship when the whole reason we started dating was because he swore up and down that he was unfalteringly honest.


My sex drive is almost always higher than his. I very rarely deny attempts to initiate, I initiate when I feel like it (not infrequently), and prior to this happening, I had almost had to force him to do anything with me, asking for a week before I got any result. Twice (as in, I told him I missed doing things with him, after at least a week with nothing, he obliged, and then we went another week with nothing, me trying all the while)
I have offered to make photos and videos of me for if he gets urges while I am not around, and he has been uncomfortable with the idea.


I have been asking almost non-stop questions to try to find out what went wrong. One of the more recent ones was whether he looked at porn because he was aroused, or if he became aroused because he looked at porn. He said he was not aroused before deciding to look at porn. It is really not a matter of sex drive, because we had...."interacted?" the night before. 


My problem is with the fact that he knowingly chose to do something that would hurt me. Knowingly did something that put me in a very bad place.




For information's sake, I think I need to clarify that I have an undiagnosed medical issue that makes me unable to have vaginal sex. So much as a pinky finger is highly uncomfortable, and the last time we tried, I lost consciousness from pain. I do my best despite this hurdle that every doctor brushes off with either "tell him to be more careful" or "have you thought of using lubrication", and I miss being able to do it just as much as he does. Because of this, if he had brought up that he at least needed to see it happening to be satisfied, I would have accepted that and made it a part of what we did. He never indicated that he was at all unhappy with what was happening, aside from occasionally saying he missed it, which I fully understand because so do I. 
I have been seeking medical help and not getting it for essentially our entire relationship, and I have attempted to try, despite the dangers involved.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Wow...I really didn't need to read any further than the "looking for ex-girlfriend on a porn site" bit. But I did out of respect. 

This is a lot to handle for you both. Probably going to take a lot more than this website to fix, if it is fixable at all. Goodluck!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Porn is highly, highly addictive, it changes mens brains, the way they view women, how they become aroused, is likely to make them less attracted to their wives or girlfriends (hence they often choose porn over real sex :scratchhead.

He is putting porn before your relation ship, he is showing you that he is like a child, has poor impulse control, and cannot be trusted. these things are not sexy at all, they will lead to you feeling resentment and not feeling attracted to him. No woman wants a man child.

The fact that this involved his ex girlfriend is even worse, double betrayal.

Just because society deems porn as a norm and OK doesn't mean it is, I will never understand why women are expected to be complacent about men adding an element to their sex lives, that gets them off on other young women, who usually look nothing like most of us, having sex in positions that are often painful and they are usually degraded. It is saying to women, you as you are are not enough for me, you never will be, I need other women to get me off, and I prefer fake sex on a computer screen to investing real time in our real loving relation ship. 

Here is some good info on how porn changes mens brains etc and how harmful it is.

Norman Doidge on pornography and neuroplasticity - worthwhile reading | Reuniting


> 102 The current porn epidemic gives a graphic demonstration that sexual tastes can be acquired. Pornography, delivered by high-speed Internet connections, satisfies every one of the prerequisites for neuroplastic change [forming new neural circuitry- a key piece in addiction].
> 
> Pornography seems, at first glance, to be a purely instinctual matter: sexually explicit pictures trigger instinctual responses, which are the product of millions of years of evolution. But if that were true, pornography would be unchanging. The same triggers, bodily parts and their proportions, that appealed to our ancestors would excite us. This is what pornographers would have us believe, for they claim they are battling sexual repression, taboo, and fear and that their goal is to liberate the natural, pent-up sexual instincts.
> 
> ...


I really don't know how you can trust him again. Is he willing to completely give up the internet, and go to counseling etc?

I would just feel so hurt and betrayed. 

Does he have empathy and understanding about this? Can he understand what it's like for you? How would he feel if you were looking up an ex boyfriend secretly and masturbating to him and then lying about it and turning him down for sex?

I also don't think he has a low drive, he just has a huge problem.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

There's nothing harmful about porn unless, like anything else, you become addicted to it.

This thread, however, has got to be a joke, someone trolling for a reaction.


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't know how to use quotes yet so I will just make your text smaller?

I really don't know how you can trust him again. Is he willing to completely give up the internet, and go to counseling etc?
We discussed ways to prevent this from happening again, and as long as he is truly being honest, than we can probably make sure this never happens again, my main concern is that one day he will get tired of all the precautions I want to set up, and I won't be ready or willing to give them up yet.
For example, I can easily put a new password on our computers when I am planning on leaving him at home alone. As long as it is 100% a Porn Habit/Desire, that should work. 

As far as counseling goes, I am having a lot of difficulty finding any help for just myself, the trip to the only place I can find online is just too far for me to make on foot. I am looking around, but it is difficult to find free services, and our income is too low due to a lot of factors to be able to pay anything for counseling.



I would just feel so hurt and betrayed.

Does he have empathy and understanding about this? Can he understand what it's like for you? How would he feel if you were looking up an ex boyfriend secretly and masturbating to him and then lying about it and turning him down for sex?
As far as I know, nothing was ever found on her, it wasn't something that I found in his normal history, just in the search history from that site, meaning it may have been before we even met. It still made me uncomfortable that he ever tried, due to the circumstances of their breakup. 
I mean, this was his post to start with. I think he understands, he says he understands, it is just a matter of how to really believe anything at this point.


He will be home in a few hours, I'm sure he'll be very interested in that article, a lot more than I am honestly, because he is pretty fascinated with neuroplasticity etc. Maybe that will help him, since it is discussing an area he knows a lot about and explaining it a lot more in depth than most places or people can.
Thank you.
(I couldn't care one way or another - It is an action that hurts me, so regardless of if it is "normal" or "harmful", I don't want it done. Especially in secret!)


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

BigToe said:


> There's nothing harmful about porn unless, like anything else, you become addicted to it.
> 
> This thread, however, has got to be a joke, someone trolling for a reaction.



Oh, I found the quote button. Thanks for calling our relationship falling apart Trolling. Super respectful.


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## TroubledGuy (Jul 15, 2011)

The article about neuroplasticity was interesting, and explains how I might be hooked on it, but there's a passage here I'd like to pull out of it:



> During the mid- to late 1990s, when the Internet was growing rapidly and pornography was exploding on it, I treated or assessed a number of men who all had essentially the same story. Each had acquired a taste for a kind of pornography that, to a greater or lesser degree, troubled or even disgusted him, had a disturbing effect on the pattern of his sexual excitement, and ultimately affected his relationships and sexual potency.
> 
> None of these men were fundamentally immature, socially awkward, or withdrawn from the world into a massive pornography collection that was a substitute for relationships with real women. These were pleasant, generally thoughtful men, in reasonably successful relationships or marriages.


There have been some hurtful comments, and I certainly don't deserve any less, but I'd like to point out that I'm a human being with a heart and a soul, not some kind of monster. I'm certainly not proud of what I've done over and over, and the result, but I'm absolutely disgusted by myself.

I've come here for ideas, though, and the goal is still:
A) To stop this completely
B) To become the person I want to be instead of some hurtful SOB
C) To keep this relationship together and rebuild it

There's no need to call for a witch hunt here. I realize that I have a problem and, to some extent, that I AM the problem. And it's not for lack of willingness to try my damnedest. What I need right now is ideas and that's why I've come here.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

TG

You can stop if you really want to.

Then

You need to ask your self, what do I really want?

Say the answer is a future with my girl friend and a good loving trusting relationship (for example).

Then you do whatever is necessary to to achieve that.

These may be never having unmonitored internet time. Going to counseling faithfully. Spending a lot of time focusing on your GF and what is sexy and wonderful about her and so forth.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You might want to get a book like this to help you overcome it Amazon.com: Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time (The Every Man Series) (9781578563685): Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker, Mike Yorkey: Books ....

and a book like this for you both to read together as a couple so she can understand your battle with this as a man and for you to understand her deep feelings as a woman on it. http://www.amazon.com/Love-Pornogra...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310816984&sr=1-1

This couple vowed to stay together and work through this, this book is the result. I believe he gave it up in the end, it explores both sides of the issue.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

quarters, he hides it from you and keeps it a secret because he is ashamed. When he is alone and there is nobody around to judge that shame temporarily diminishes, and he figures "what harm is there in looking, nobody will know etc." Just like most cheaters, they don't do it because it will hurt you, they do it because they think they can get away with it and it brings them gratification.

Not long after I met my stbxw I moved into a house of my own and got my very first computer/internet connection. On somewhat frequent occasions I'd lose myself in pornography.... I kept it secret until I got caught about a year into our M, when my wife found out she was devasted, possibly as much as I was when I found out she was recently cheating on me.

When she found the evidence there was nothing to kinky (though I'd sometimes go to the darkside of the web) just lots and lots of nudie girls - she couldn't fathom how many pics I;d looked at in just a short time, that was the kick I was getting from it that day, seeing how many physically attractive nude girls made themselves available to men (for money I'm sure, not that there was any need to bother with the pay sites). It was shock and betrayal to her. I felt more ashamed that I couldn't control this impulse and did that to her than the shame I had for hiding it and that I'd wasted hours and days of my life that I could have used for something healthy... I made a real effort to regain her trust and I did change my view and use of porn... didn't touch the stuff for over a year, had a few slips afterwards (occasionally follow a tempting link or check out the "hot or not" sites) but generally stayed away from porn and she acknowledges it. Though afterwards the sex diminished, she thinks it is because I need porn to get aroused, but it is more the shame I have about the whole thing, and also the fact she lost a trust in me, she closed up a little.

In the past year or so my marriage has been a bit of a sham, and while the porn was a problem for me early on it didn't really consume me, it didn't overtake my life except when she found out that I had been into it and kept it secret for a two year duration at the beginning of our relationship. I don't know how much the porn played a part in my failed relationship, I though it was past history, thought it was all behind us, but she still had no problem using it as a weapon against me when she was trying to blame me for all the failures in our M and her A. The annoying thing is how much she has changed herself these past few years, has opened up sexually, does sex toy parties, has male clients she does hair removal on (including the junk), and has turned into a party girl - even found out that she's been looking at porn for some time - I honestly don't know if it relates to my earlier addiction to porn...

Anyways, advice for your H, give the porn a rest and start using your imagination, if your W lets you use her as your object of pleasure. Now I'm single again I've found that using my imagination instead of porn is giving my libido a big boost, I need to stop feeding pointless images into my brain and start conjuring sexy ones myself.


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## TroubledGuy (Jul 15, 2011)

Hi,

I just wanted to say I'm glad we're getting all this feedback. It's good to read about your experiences and suggestions. It's food for thought and I'm glad to have different viewpoints to go on.

That's all I wanted to say. If people have more, keep it coming!

Thanks, everyone.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Hi *TGuy*. My H suffers from a porn addiction, too. I demonized him in the beginning of it and he hated himself. He hasn't looked at porn (that I know of) for a year or so. I don't talk to him too much about how he's dealing with it but here are some things we both do:

- don't watch TV, at all

- dont watch any movies that have sexual explicit material. we usually don't watch anything over PG

- he has site blockers on his phone and computer

- he goes to counseling bi-weekly

And about the lying. You know you cannot be truthful so acknowledge your limits and learn to work with them instead of fight them. You cannot promise you wont watch. Its that simple. Don't promise you wont watch because you don't have control over that right now. What do you have control over? Can you go to counseling? Can you put site blockers on your computer? These are things you can control. 

I never ask my H if he's looked at porn because that would be counterproductive on my part. I would be putting him in a situation that is like cornering him and a catch-22. If your wife asks you if you've been looking you have absolutely no obligation to answer. You are not cornered. You can say, "im not comfortable talking about this." if she gets really angry you can leave, but of course emphasis that you do love her and you're not doing this to hurt her, but you have a problem and don't understand how to handle your love for her and this problem.


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

I honestly can't agree that refusing to answer is a valid way to act, nor is lying to say he hasn't.



The problem, I think, is that any sort of hidden porn viewing is counted as "addiction".

I'm sorry, but I KNOW men who have had porn addictions. This is NOT the situation here at all.
If you drink once a month, you are not an alcoholic, and if you look at porn only very occasionally (assuming I am being told the truth) and not having urges to do so any more frequently than about once a month, is NOT an addiction. It is poor judgement, or poor self control, or some other issue, but certainly not an addiction. 
(Porn addiction self test: "When you have child care responsibilities, do you put a higher priority on masturbating or being sexual than you do on the welfare of the child(ren) in your care? " "Do you drive around unfamiliar neighborhoods (cruise) hoping to find places where pornography is available?", calling something an addiction when it is nowhere near that level of a problem minimizes real problems that other people actually have)



I don't think that being allowed to hide any relapse is a valid idea, because the entire point of my hurt is that I have been lied to, things have been kept from me. Allowing the option of refusing to answer means that I WILL be lied to again.
In all honesty, if he had told me immediately or even after a month or two, I would not have been nearly as devastated as I am right now. The dishonesty is the real issue here, as looking at naked ladies isn't inherently wrong, but lying to your partner to protect yourself most definitely is.

I also doubt that any professional would tell your husband to refuse to answer that question, since if the goal is to break an addiction, you need to be honest about relapses and have a support system in place to try to prevent another one.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

:iagree: I liken it to cheating, if you cheated and your spouse asked if you had cheated, they would expect an honest answer, and no one would say - don't ask just in case he has and then he will have to lie.

I do believe this is not an addiction, just that he is showing that he has poor impulse control and is makes very bad decisions. He is the only one that can really control what he is doing.

The bottom line is, -Does he value and respect you enough to treat you the way you deserve at all times, even if you would never know? I think that is the test of a really decent person.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

quarters said:


> I don't think that being allowed to hide any relapse is a valid idea, because the entire point of my hurt is that I have been lied to, things have been kept from me. Allowing the option of refusing to answer means that I WILL be lied to again.


How has this approach been working for you? 

When you didn't allow him to lie, was he honest? And this time if you absolutely insist, what do you think will happen? You know the definition of insanity, right?

You have no power in that area, so surrender to your helplessness and find an avenue that you do have power. 

I've been in your shoes. I've been lied to many times. I know how much it hurts. But trying to protect yourself from that hurt by insisting he not lie is creating a lot of dysfunction, and you're still getting hurt.

You do need to protect yourself but with strategies that produce decisive results without you having to get incredibly hurt. What can he do that you can judge out in the open without having to play detective? That is where you need to put your energy because it will give you results and you can make a clear decision without getting hurt and dwindling in insanity.


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

It isn't about how it has been working "for me".





> "*We promised to always be open and honest with each other, and that became the cornerstone of our relationship.*"



We both guaranteed each other that full and complete honesty would be given. We both agreed that any break in said honesty would be a complete breach of the "terms" of our relationship, and I was told it would be the end of any relationship whatsoever.

I didn't "not allow him to lie", we BOTH agreed (brought up first by him, I might add), before even meeting each other in person, that the only relationship we would ever consider would need to be fully honest.


If I am not promised _and given_ full honesty, then this is not a relationship I wish to be a part of. I do _not_ allow lies in relationships. I have attempted to work through this solely because I feel that in the end, if it does get resolved, it will be worthwhile. I will never agree to being lied to under any circumstances, and I know he would not tolerate as much dishonesty as he has given me.

If I cannot have an honest man, then I will have no man at all. That's all there is to it.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

quarters said:


> We both guaranteed each other that full and complete honesty would be given. We both agreed that any break in said honesty would be a complete breach of the "terms" of our relationship, and I was told it would be the end of any relationship whatsoever.


You have breached the terms of that agreement. You did not show trust when you installed the key logging software on the computer without his knowledge. You betrayed his trust in you by secretly going behind his back, and rationalize it by suggesting you felt guilty asking him "Did you behave yourself" all the time.

You are as guilty as you find him to be, but you are worse because you are torturing him over his mistakes. Your queries "Did you behave yourself" are insulting. You are looking for relationship perfection and it does not exist. You need a robot.

TroubledGuy, you ARE a human being and not a monster. Your partner is being irrational and has unrealistic expectations of both you and your relationship. A good start to getting your masculinity back would be to pack her bags and say ADIOS, Baby!


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

BigToe said:


> You have breached the terms of that agreement. You did not show trust when



We promised Honesty. 
Not trust.
I haven't trusted him since the LAST TIME he lied to me (for months). Not fully.

We both have trust issues, mine simply show up more because my trust has been violated and his has not in 3 years.


Maybe you should re-read through this. I never said I expected a "perfect" relationship. I understand that sometimes people make mistakes. My problem is with the fact that he chose not to own up to his mistake and work on correcting it, but to hide it and continue doing so at the exact same rate he would have had it never been agreed to stop (as it was essentially every single time I left the house while he was alone in it for more than an hour).


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

I deal with pornography addiction with marital relationships on a weekly basis in my office. With both TG and quarters, both are hurting in this relationship. Both would like things to improve but are at a loss as to how to move forward. Troubled Guy, I am really sorry that you are dealing with this. I think it takes a lot of courage to admit that you have a problem with this. Quarters, I am also sorry for you. You wanted a relationship built on trust and honesty, and that seems to have been destroyed.

I think honesty is the best policy here. TG, you have to be completely honest with quarters. You have to tell her if you slipped up or even if you are struggling with thoughts. Quarters, you need to provide an environment for honesty. This is his problem, it is not about you, but you can help. When he comes to you letting you know that he slipped up, say 'Thank you for telling me that. How can I help?' instead of reacting to the situation. TG, again it is complete honesty, all the time. That will help build the integrity again.


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> I deal with pornography addiction with marital relationships on a weekly basis in my office. With both TG and quarters, both are hurting in this relationship. Both would like things to improve but are at a loss as to how to move forward. Troubled Guy, I am really sorry that you are dealing with this. I think it takes a lot of courage to admit that you have a problem with this. Quarters, I am also sorry for you. You wanted a relationship built on trust and honesty, and that seems to have been destroyed.
> 
> I think honesty is the best policy here. TG, you have to be completely honest with quarters. You have to tell her if you slipped up or even if you are struggling with thoughts. Quarters, you need to provide an environment for honesty. This is his problem, it is not about you, but you can help. When he comes to you letting you know that he slipped up, say 'Thank you for telling me that. How can I help?' instead of reacting to the situation. TG, again it is complete honesty, all the time. That will help build the integrity again.


Thank you for your input. That is what we are trying to do, we have gone through some online "tests" and discussed things and I have learned a few things I did not know before, and I think (and he agreed when I asked) that I am doing a fairly good job of hearing unpleasant truths.
He did well at hearing mine as well. 


We decided to put parental filters on our computers today, since he thinks that merely getting the page saying You Can't See This should be enough to stop him even if he does slip up again. It's not quite enough to reassure me yet, but it is a good step.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

quarters said:


> If I am not promised _and given_ full honesty, then this is not a relationship I wish to be a part of.


Of course no one wants to be in a dishonest relationship. But what do you do when you are in one? Keep demanding honesty? Keep threatening to leave? Put key loggers on computers and monitor his every move, analyze everything he says and try to suck the truth out of him? You're not leaving at this moment, maybe not for awhile, so what are you going to do to change your situation while you're with him? Keep insisting he not lie? keep monitoring him and analyzing him, wondering if he's hiding something, wondering if you missed something? No one wants to live that way but you choose to live that way even though time and again it doesn't work. If you aren't going to leave at this moment you have to decide how you want to exist while you stay. 



quarters said:


> If I cannot have an honest man, then I will have no man at all. That's all there is to it.


There's gotta be more to it then that because you don't have an honest man but you still have a man. 

If you are serious about what you said above, then there would be no reason to say it at this point. But there's a lot more to it then that because you are still here. You have some hope so you're going to be around for awhile. While you are still in the relationship it is worth looking at the results of your actions and evaluating how you feel about yourself and your life. Is this how you want to feel and act even for one more day? Do you like being a constant snoop, wondering constantly if he's lying, or finding ways to track him down. Is there any room for love when you're acting that way? The poor guy couldn't even come on an anonymous forum for help without you right there on his heels divulging his personal affairs, which he obviously wished to keep to himself. What a horrible breech of trust on your part. I wonder if he will reach out for help again. If you don't try something new then there's no reason to expect anything about this dysfunction will change.


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## quarters (Jul 15, 2011)

Blanca said:


> The poor guy couldn't even come on an anonymous forum for help without you right there on his heels divulging his personal affairs, which he obviously wished to keep to himself.


He typed the entire post right next to me. He wasn't trying to hide anything. 

And I don't believe it counts as Personal Affairs when it is anonymous. None of you know who he or I am, therefore it benefits nobody if he leaves out rather crucial details. 
He wouldn't have gotten appropriate responses with only the details he provided, as often happens when we ask anyone for help. He downplays serious situations, and is aware of it but not quite able to get past it into saying exactly how things are.


It was suggested that his girlfriend was a prude about pornography, I posted here to say that that was not the case, as he had been seeking very inappropriate pornography which lead to the request to stop. It needed to be divulged that this was not due to an overall lack of stimulation or my being afraid of depictions of nude women.



And I most definitely resent the implication that his dishonesty was caused by me checking to verify what he told me. None of this checking would have been necessary if he had not previously lied.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

I recognize it has only been a few days, but where are you guys at in dealing with these things. How is Troubled Guy doing? How are you doing quarters?


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