# I need a man's opinion



## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?

I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.

I am suspicious now because I found out not from my husband but from someone else.

I asked 5 of my husband's co-workers what they thought and they all said to me it was strictly "professional". They said I was being crazy. They said that they know 100% that they are both people with good character and they would never jeopardize their family.

So what do you think? Is is okay to go out to dinner alone with a female co-worker? I have always told my husband that I don't feel comfortable with this. Maybe this is why he didn't tell me about it.

:frown2:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Yes, many times. Nothing to it.

Travel with married female coworker. Likewise.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

It would not be ok with me. A better thank you gift would to buy him a restaurant card so that he can take the two of you to dinner.... not her and him. I would not trust intentions. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a professional level, but the biggest red flag for me would be his non disclosure.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

So basically they went on a date ... his lack of disclosure is really the part I would be concerned over ...


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Me too, on occasion. My job requires some overnight travel, sometimes with female colleagues although I try to avoid that since I know it makes my wife uncomfortable. But if the situation is unavoidable then yes, I'll typically have dinner with her. All strictly professional and above-board.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

When something like this has happened to me, the W knows about it before it happens. Lack of disclosure makes it seem like a date, though it could be your H is just not thinking about how you may react. So it could be something or it could be nothing. Since you went to his co-workers, they probably already told him you were asking about it, so confronting won't do much good. If he is having an affair, it will likely go underground now. And if he isn't, you won't be able to prove either way....


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

When traveling, sure. But when I'm in the city as my wife, no.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I agree, when traveling, yes. But strictly professional. No hanky-panky ever. It can be done.

A lunch with coworkers, yes, pretty routine and on the straight and narrow. Some people know how to do this.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

GTdad said:


> Me too, on occasion. My job requires some overnight travel, sometimes with female colleagues although I try to avoid that since I know it makes my wife uncomfortable. But if the situation is unavoidable then yes, I'll typically have dinner with her. All strictly professional and above-board.





CharlieParker said:


> When traveling, sure. But when I'm in the city as my wife, no.


Agreed, I did quite a bit of traveling earlier on and it was unavoidable that I would have to get something to eat with a female co worker. That to me feels much different then going out to dinner with a female co worker twice when you are in a position to complete avoid this (such as the case with the OPs H). Add in the non disclosure ...


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

The unspoken problem here is the lack of trust and communication in the relationship.

You don't trust him, and he isn't forthcoming with you.

This will cause problems if it's not addressed. 

Actually, it's already causing problems. It will lead to far GREATER problems if it's not addressed.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Susie42 said:


> I asked 5 of my husband's co-workers what they thought and they all said to me it was strictly "professional".


I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate concerns about the non-disclosure, but there's something I want to explore "just in case."

The above seems a little unusual to me, and makes me wonder whether there's a *possibility* that this was all on the up-and-up, but your husband didn't tell you about the dinner because he didn't want to deal with jealousy that might be, perhaps, a little over the top.

That doesn't make what he did right, but do you think what I outlined above could be a reasonable explanation?

ETA: From your posts I see that your H has taken multiple polygraphs with mixed results, and there was an issue with strip clubs and lap dances. Has he engaged in other shady behavior or even cheated on you?


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Mclane said:


> The unspoken problem here is the lack of trust and communication in the relationship.
> 
> You don't trust him, and he isn't forthcoming with you.
> 
> ...


Agreed, the lack of communication is the major problem in our relationship. I am very upset about what happened. I am upset that he didn't tell me about it. Now it looks like he went on a date or that their is an affair going on.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


I've done it, but I didn't feel good about it, and neither did my wife.

So I haven't done it again.

Technically it's OK I guess. But it doesn't make either of us feel good. So why do it?


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

If it was me I would certainly disclose, in form of b!tching about having to fücking go to a work related thing in the evening.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

GTdad said:


> I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate concerns about the non-disclosure, but there's something I want to explore "just in case."
> 
> The above seems a little unusual to me, and makes me wonder whether there's a *possibility* that this was all on the up-and-up, but your husband didn't tell you about the dinner because he didn't want to deal with jealousy that might be, perhaps, a little over the top.
> 
> ...


Understandable. But we are all friends. I am friends with his co-workers.

My trust has eroded with my husband over the years because he has lied about other things mainly (Strip Clubs/Money/Gambling).


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> Agreed, the lack of communication is the major problem in our relationship. I am very upset about what happened. I am upset that he didn't tell me about it. Now it looks like he went on a date or that their is an affair going on.


Well, one way you might want to handle this is to calmly approach him about what you have learned about his "dates". Don't show strong emotion or come across as attacking, or it will put him on the defensive and shut him right down. You need to create an atmosphere in which he feels safe talking about these sorts of things with you, without repurcussion.

I didn't say it was going to be easy...


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Blossom Leigh said:


> but the biggest red flag for me would be his non disclosure.


^^^^
He knew you wouldn't be happy with it and he did it anyway. Poor judgement and a lack of respect for you and the marriage in my book.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Shoto1984 said:


> ^^^^
> He knew you wouldn't be happy with it and he did it anyway. Poor judgement and a lack of respect for you and the marriage in my book.


Agree!


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> _Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?_
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. *She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.*
> 
> ...


You've got two questions here. For the underlined part, yes, it is 2016 and the workplace is filled with men AND women. There can be reasons to have a meal with a coworker, coworkers can be of the opposite sex. Oh well, that's the way it is, shouldn't be a secret. 

And, thinking a little more. I suppose dinner is slightly different, I can't imagine having dinner with any coworker and not letting my wife know I was not coming home and would be eating out with so and so. On the other hand, I do have lunch with coworkers all the time and many of those times it'll be one of the opposite sex. I feel NO need to review my lunch partners in detail with my wife although of course from time to time a discussion at lunch will come up in conversation with her (wife) and the identity of the other conversant will come up - nothing to hide. 

The bolded things are a different issue I think. You are obviously at least somewhat suspicious and maybe rightly so, why is he "carrying" another coworker. Is that a fair observation on your part? Driven by some insecurity? You tracked down 5 coworkers to grill them about this? Really? 

It may be that your suspicions are correct but that is about your relationship not whether or not is is OK to share a meal with a coworker or not. I'd be horrified if my wife was grilling coworkers like this. Horrified that she was doing it and horrified that something I did led her to be that suspicious...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have gone a few times with a female co-worker. I was in a management position and she worked sales. We made joint sales calls. We needed lunch so we ate lunch. Totally professional. I felt a bit awkward to honest. Just used to conversation with my W will eating. My W did know about the joint sales calls and lunch.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

If he did it once and didn't tell you about it, I would have a problem with it. One on one contact like this is the kind of thing that leads to emotional affairs that can lead to physical affairs. I am not saying they are at the EM stage, but it may be leading there if he didn't tell you about it. I try not to have one on one dinners with females other than my wife to avoid any risk or temptation. Particularly coworkers. There is already some bond with female coworkers because you spend a lot of time together. Office affairs are not at all uncommon. Not saying that is what it is, but it could become one. My wife would not be ok with not being told or invited.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> Yes, I have gone a few times with a female co-worker. I was in a management position and she worked sales. We made joint sales calls. We needed lunch so we ate lunch. Totally professional. I felt a bit awkward to honest. Just used to conversation with my W will eating. My W did know about the joint sales calls and lunch.



It was dinner not lunch. Dinner after work.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Susie42 said:


> It was dinner not lunch. Dinner after work.


So taking time away from being with you / your family, correct?


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

anonmd said:


> You've got two questions here. For the underlined part, yes, it is 2016 and the workplace is filled with men AND women. There can be reasons to have a meal with a coworker, coworkers can be of the opposite sex. Oh well, that's the way it is, shouldn't be a secret.
> 
> And, thinking a little more. I suppose dinner is slightly different, I can't imagine having dinner with any coworker and not letting my wife know I was not coming home and would be eating out with so and so. On the other hand, I do have lunch with coworkers all the time and many of those times it'll be one of the opposite sex. I feel NO need to review my lunch partners in detail with my wife although of course from time to time a discussion at lunch will come up in conversation with her (wife) and the identity of the other conversant will come up - nothing to hide.
> 
> ...


There is reason for me to be suspicious. There is background here that I didn't write down because it is too lengthy. However, my husband has lied to me about going to strip clubs, getting lap dances, spending thousands of dollars on gambling etc... He has lied to me about where he was at and who he was with. Because if this, I was fed up. And yes, I did contact 5 co-workers because I couldn't get the truth from him. 

I am very upset because I now feel that something happened between him and this female co-worker but I can't prove it.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Then there is no reason to ask strangers if dinner with a coworker is OK or not. 

It's not OK to you because of all this other stuff and any attempt by him to say it is OK is just smoke. Carry on sweety!


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

That history makes a big difference. He has already proven that you can't trust him. His coworkers may not know what is going on. Or, they may hide it for him. Offices can be loyal places. I think you may have bigger issues on your hands. Time to do a little research. Check cell records, etc. And decide what you are going to do if he is having an affair.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Someone needs to call all of our good evidence gathering guys in here... I know the list is longer than I can recall these days. A few off the top of my head are ..
@GusPolinski @weightlifter @JohnA

We need a standard running list, like a calling tree... lol


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


*No, it is not OK to go out to dinner privately with her, even if done in the mantra of "business!"

If dinner is in order, it ought to be done with either mixed company work colleagues or with family members, like a spouse being in attendance!

Dining or meeting an opposite sex worker in private is tantamount to deception!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manchild (Nov 9, 2009)

Susie42 said:


> Agreed, the lack of communication is the major problem in our relationship. I am very upset about what happened. I am upset that he didn't tell me about it. Now it looks like he went on a date or that their is an affair going on.


I know from my perspective I would have told you though I must admit it may have come to my mind after I went though the following course of action....first I'd have deduced that the easiest/most convenient action would be to simply go to dinner and not share that with you.......then I'd feel guilty about it and angry that you would be putting me in this box where I was 'forced' to be less than forthcoming.......and then I'd just deal with it and have told you and dealt with the fallout

since you are asking for a man's perspective I assume you don't mind me being frank and perhaps a little harsh in telling you everything that I feel

Jealousy is a rather significant turn off for me as I think of it as a form of control and I don't like being controlled, that is who I am and I don't make excuses for it...........I don't get jealous of my significant others engagements with the opposite sex, I remind myself that my sig-o is a charming a lovely woman who I am attracted to and she's learned to use this charms in her process of getting through life, also the whole reason I am with her is bc of those same charms so to deny her the use of them with the world is to deny the very existence of our own relationship

I trust her that she is faithful towards me and I'll continue to trust her until she shows me otherwise

Remember the reason your husbands female colleague wishes to reward him with dinner is because he is a good person and helped her, why can't you celebrate that? Isn't this why you love him to begin with? I assume you don't want him to stop being this way.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Only while traveling. I was dating someone, he was married. We both were at a trade show so we ate together. 

If both spouses are in town I find it odd and suspect.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Yes many times.... but details matter.

The times I have had lunch or dinner with a coworker, either my wife has been invited, or the situation has made that impractical - say on travel on a different continent. 

I would never take a coworker out for dinner as a reward unless I was taking several people. Its just too easy for that to be misunderstood.

I'm not saying that there was any problem in your husbands situation, I don't know. Its just that I try to be very careful





Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

DallasCowboyFan said:


> That history makes a big difference. He has already proven that you can't trust him. His coworkers may not know what is going on. Or, they may hide it for him. Offices can be loyal places. I think you may have bigger issues on your hands. Time to do a little research. Check cell records, etc. And decide what you are going to do if he is having an affair.


To clarify because I didn't have much time to type my first post...

I found out about the dinner outings a few months ago. However, this took place 20 years ago! I know it has been a long time. However, I recently found out about this. 

*More background information: *I confronted my husband a few years ago about the other stuff he lied about to me (Strip Clubs, Lap Dances, Gambling, Lying about where he was at..) etc... He has stopped going to those places. He has been transparent ever since I found out about his lying. 

I did check phone records/bank statements/credit card statements back 7 years. That is all that I could gather. I wasn't able to check anything past the 7 year mark. I didn't find anything unusual with phone records, or credit cards... However, he was taking a lot of cash withdrawls out of our checking account. 

I did make him take 3 Polygraph Tests. The first one he bombed! He failed it. He failed 4 out of 5 questions. I made him take it again. Then he passed. I made him take it one more time and he past again. However, I feel that he paid the polygraph examiner off. I think I bothered the polygraph examiner too much with my phone calls and emails. I think that the guy just said my husband passed the polygraph to get me off his back. I don't want to ask him to take another one and we are low on money right now.

This dinner thing is really bugging me. In addition to all of this, I found out that this woman has been living 2 blocks away from my home for the past 17 years and my husband never mentioned it to me. We have past her house multiple times. I have seen her outside gardening and they never even waved at each other. Odd. Very odd. They worked together for 7 years.

I confronted this woman. Letters/Emails/Phone Calls. She hasn't responded to me. She is ignoring me which makes me feel that she has something to hide.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> So taking time away from being with you / your family, correct?


Yes, you are correct. Took time away from me and his daughter. And he didn't tell me about it. I know that this happened at least 2 times.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

To be fair, he was in his late 20's at the time. Do you think immaturity played a role in his bad decision making?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


Your husband jeopardized his marriage by not telling you about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Susie42 said:


> There is reason for me to be suspicious. There is background here that I didn't write down because it is too lengthy. However, my husband has lied to me about going to strip clubs, getting lap dances, spending thousands of dollars on gambling etc... He has lied to me about where he was at and who he was with. Because if this, I was fed up. And yes, I did contact 5 co-workers because I couldn't get the truth from him.
> 
> I am very upset because I now feel that something happened between him and this female co-worker but I can't prove it.


Given this, I believe your husband is a cheater. Regardless if he has sealed the deal yet, he is a cheater.

If you want evidence, go into spy mode. There are some great threads about evidence gathering here.

Your actions, while understandable, have tipped your hand and if they are up to no good, they have taken it underground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

How in the world did you find out about dinners from 20 years ago?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

You are trending back towards whacko here. Maybe it's justified, maybe not. I'd not want to deal with this...

In other words, you may need to just decide if you can live with what you think happened or not.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi @Blossom Leigh, 

Actually I stopped being "tech smart" a decade ago. What iI am good at is timelines, thanks to unsuccessful trying lie to my mother. Facts tend to stick and a narrative forms in my mind. Years later someone makes a statement and the thought pops up in my mind "Huh, that doesn't fit what I know". 

I also have learned to live with doubt and view it as an ally. When an issue pops up I approach it with the view point of always living an "out" if I am wrong. From there I build a what if I am wrong, and what if I am right scenarios. 

A decades ago a "pop up book" was published about how to protect yourself from unemployment titled "who moved my cheese". I quickly realized it is not just your job you might need to change overnight. Did you read Values thread. It seemed to me right from the start the real issue was "empty nest" neither he or his wife had considered in any real fashion. 

If I could get every BS that comes here to first create and establish a frame work for the "if we divorce scenario" right of the bat I would feel my input had value. Again not because I am saying divorce first and figure out a later. Rather I am saying minimize uncertainty.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi @Susie42, 

You are right to be concerned. Put aside the question of did or didn't he. Step back and ask yourself if he did what do I need to move forward. Consider if this concern is rooted in your concern about his lifetime of piss poor boundaries. His behavior has thrown you into a loop. Do not define yourself in terms of what he did, define yourself by your reaction to his behavior. Start by considering how people you admire and respect would do. Build a narrative of there reaction, build one for yourself. Then do it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> It was dinner not lunch. Dinner after work.


What is the difference?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> There is reason for me to be suspicious. There is background here that I didn't write down because it is too lengthy. However, my husband has lied to me about going to strip clubs, getting lap dances, spending thousands of dollars on gambling etc... He has lied to me about where he was at and who he was with. Because if this, I was fed up. And yes, I did contact 5 co-workers because I couldn't get the truth from him.
> 
> I am very upset because I now feel that something happened between him and this female co-worker but I can't prove it.


You know, little tid bits of information like this are helpful. The 5 coworkers did not spill the beans?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> So basically they went on a date ... his lack of disclosure is really the part I would be concerned over ...



Oh come on.
That does not have to be a date (though it could be).
Maybe he didn't tell because he was afraid his wife will go psycho when there was nothing going on.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

nirvana said:


> Oh come on.
> That does not have to be a date (though it could be).
> Maybe he didn't tell because he was afraid his wife will go psycho when there was nothing going on.


Sorry, taking a female coworker out to dinner after work twice ... spidey senses would be tingling ...

If he is concerned his wife will go psycho that means she is probably not comfortable with, maybe take that into consideration as part of your marriage first instead of doing and then hiding


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

^-- ok, maybe I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know the details, but just going to lunch with a coworker does not mean a date.

Some 13 years ago, as I was leaving a job, a female coworker I had helped with something called me for coffee to the cafe. I told my wife and she went ballistic. After that experience, I stopped telling her things. I have gone to lunch with female coworkers and friends during work hours, but I don't tell her. Those were non-romantic lunches.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi @nirvana, 

You are digging a grave for yourself, not unlike a car driver who is right, dead right. Your wife has an issue. You are married so guess what, her issues are your issues. Look at it like this: Her handicaps are yours and your handicaps are her's. Fix them or abide by them. Yea, sometimes it really is that simple.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

JohnA said:


> Hi @nirvana,
> 
> You are digging a grave for yourself, not unlike a car driver who is right, dead right. Your wife has an issue. You are married so guess what, her issues are your issues. Look at it like this: Her handicaps are yours and your handicaps are her's. Fix them or abide by them. Yea, sometimes it really is that simple.


Hi John,
Her handicaps are mine for sure but I cannot dance to her tunes. And then what if her tune changes? Women don't respect a doormat husband either. I'll have to be true to myself and do the right thing always. I have had to make many unpopular financial decisions and we see the good results now, after many years. If I had listened to her (who was trying to copy some free-spending friend who is now in debt), we would be drowning as well.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

He didn't tell you about it, huh?

He wants to **** her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. I have NO CLUE what she's up to. But I know men and I know what he wants.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

My annual chime on this topic: Until recently I worked in female dominated industries. I have had many female mentors. There are about ten that I consider dear friends. I love and respect them and their families deeply. I have been out to lunch and dinner with all of them ..........alone. Never have they implied anything romantic to me nor I to them. It would be like hitting on my sister. 

I will add my wife always knows when I am going with them and has never asked me not to. She trusts me with all of them because she knows they would deliver my nutz on a platter to her if I ever got out of line.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Yes, a few times. Usually it is at a conference or when travelling. It's only an issue if there is flirting. That's never been an issue with me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Everyone read the post that the dinners with a co-worker happened 20 years ago, right?

You asked 5 people at your husband's place of employment about dinners he went on 20 years ago??


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## ryan2022 (May 2, 2016)

I am a man, and have just been down this road with a colleague from a volunteer agency.

I made my wife aware when we went to lunch, but at the same time I chose to cut ties with this woman shortly after. It's very difficult to execute this properly, but I'm sure there are guys out there that can...I just made the decision out of safety.

I would say that the lack of disclosure doesn't necessarily mean that there is anything going on, but may point to a deeper issue.

-Are there trust/ jealousy issues on your end that would make it hard for him to tell you, regardless of the innocence of the dinner? 

-Are there issues in the marriage that need addressing?

-Has there been a history of this type of thing before?

I'm just playing devils advocate. I would cut to the core regardless and ask about the lack of disclosure. I have a huge guilt mechanism and would fell slightly badly about not telling my wife about this...regardless of the innocence of it.

Again...that doesn't mean that anything is going on....as time goes by it gets more an more awkard to say..."oh by the way" Even if our instincts tell us to, it then becomes an issue that was never there.

If he missed his window...he may have just let it go.


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## ryan2022 (May 2, 2016)

MachoMcCoy said:


> He didn't tell you about it, huh?
> 
> He wants to **** her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. I have NO CLUE what she's up to. But I know men and I know what he wants.



That a bit drastic I'd think...no need to raise fear where it may not be needed.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> He didn't tell you about it, huh?
> 
> He wants to **** her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. I have NO CLUE what she's up to. But I know men and I know what he wants.


Why assume that he wants to F her?
Maybe he wants to take her out as a date, and just enjoy her company and conversation. Some women are nice company because of common topics. Maybe he has a crush on her. But that does not mean he has no control and will F her.


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## ryan2022 (May 2, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> To clarify because I didn't have much time to type my first post...
> 
> I found out about the dinner outings a few months ago. However, this took place 20 years ago! I know it has been a long time. However, I recently found out about this.
> 
> ...



I just red this....this changes a few things. First of all, we're all still learning boundaries, and almost everything there is to learn about marriage in our 20's.

I would have handled many things differently when I was younger as apposed to in my late 30;s

My wife failed to mention that my EX is on her best friends facebook page....a strange dynamic, and a different situation, but sometimes it's easier to omit these details to make things easier!

It wouldn't have done anything positive for your husband to mention the woman lived down the street....and on the flip side to your argument....it probably made no difference to him where she lived, especially if there was no past history between them.

Also, FYI, my wife has taken poly's for her position, and I have several friends in law enforcement. There is very good reason why theyre not held highly in court cases anymore. They are at best 60% accurate....far less with some people.

I'm just trying to put you at ease.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I have been out with colleagues in groups, one on one, whatever. I don't work in an environment where it would occur to anyone that hanky pank would occur over a business meal. Or I am just oblivious. The tech lead of my team took each team member out to learn what they professional goals were so as to position himself to help us achieve them. It would have looked sort of odd taking out the guys but not me. His wife told him that that was terribly sexist and kind of insulting.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> He didn't tell you about it, huh?
> 
> He wants to **** her. Of that I have ZERO doubt. I have NO CLUE what she's up to. But I know men and I know what he wants.


I confess that I have not read the entire thread. But this is patently absurd. My male colleagues want me to do a fantastic job on my team to produce a super high quality product on time so that the business succeeds and we continue to get paid. Because they are not douche bags who only see value in females below the waist.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> My male colleagues want me to do a fantastic job on my team to produce a super high quality product on time so that the business succeeds and we continue to get paid.


Colleagues, plural. Wow. You must go out often all the time for dinner, one-on one, with all the married ones. And none of them tell their wives.

Sorry, I'm bad at sarcasm. Not an apples to apples comparison NS.

Oh, and unless you're a co...

...sorry. If you could be considered attractive, I can guarantee a couple of these BFF's want to get into those tight jeans you wear sometimes on casual Friday. 

I can GUARANTEE it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

ryan2022 said:


> That a bit drastic I'd think...no need to raise fear where it may not be needed.


You think it's drastic, Mr. 11 posts? 

Strip clubs? Cash withdrawls? Never told his psychotic wife about any of it? Failed polygraphs?

And you think me suggesting that he may have a sexual interest in her is "raising fear"? 

If so, great. There needs to be fear creeping into this marriage.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Why assume that he wants to F her?
> Maybe he wants to take her out as a date, and just enjoy her company and conversation. Some women are nice company because of common topics. Maybe he has a crush on her. But that does not mean he has no control and will F her.


This is kind of odd. I don't think you're being sarcastic. You are implying that dating her is OK as long as they don't swap fluids. 

Interesting.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

This thread is fun on many levels. One last hit then I'm gone. 




Susie42 said:


> She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.


Did her job for her. What a sweetheart.




Susie42 said:


> I confronted this woman. Letters/Emails/Phone Calls. She hasn't responded to me. She is ignoring me which makes me feel that she has something to hide.



I'm guessing she hasn't responded because all of a sudden this psycho starts confronting her with letters/emails/phone calls about a dinner she had with her husband 20 years ago. Not only that, but she's searching out old colleagues and grilling them too.

Not responding to you? She should get a restraining order against you.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Colleagues, plural. Wow. You must go out often all the time for dinner, one-on one, with all the married ones. And none of them tell their wives.
> 
> Sorry, I'm bad at sarcasm. Not an apples to apples comparison NS.
> 
> ...


Where do you work, Walmart?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Work, hours and travel meant I have been in that position a few times. Recently, I was unmarried and she was married. There was nothing to it, indeed they made me welcome in California and I bought him a rather nice pair of cufflinks to demonstrate good faith.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Where do you work, Walmart?


Mr McCoy is not at home to the sanity fairy.


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## llahti (May 4, 2016)

Well, that's a tough one. I guess it is based off of trust to began with. Even if the trust was there I am not sure that it would be a good situation to be in. Hence my one rule in life. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 
I would look at it as how would I feel if my wife (you) did it? 

I guess my response is no I don't think it would be ok.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I would not do this in most cases and I see a red flag. I take females to lunch all the time. They are business lunches. I would not be choose a dinner as that takes time from the family. I would do a working lunch, but if I wanted to thank a female associate then I would make it a couple event. And I have done this. 

I would also tell my wife if I exercised the poor judgment to do something that appeared to be a dinner date (and she would say no).


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

So now, Susie, you appear to be irrational. 20 years ago? 

Leave the lady alone. When 20 years age he exercised poor judgment) and maybe nothing happened), to dredge it up and start harassing people about it makes you look bad and serves no good purpose. 


Susie42 said:


> To clarify because I didn't have much time to type my first post...
> 
> I found out about the dinner outings a few months ago. However, this took place 20 years ago! I know it has been a long time. However, I recently found out about this.
> 
> ...


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## dan13732 (May 5, 2016)

I think things smell a little bad, especially because it happened twice.

If he knows you don't like it AND he didn't tell you, that doesn't mean they are headed to an affair... but it does indicate some level of affection between them OR some level of disregard for your feelings. The latter is the more important thing to address first. Why not talk to him about it?

I guess I recommend: "assume he is being insensitive, not contemplating an affair". Try to discuss it. If he continues to brush off your feelings or is dismissive... that is it's own problem.

As for this:



Susie42 said:


> I asked 5 of my husband's co-workers what they thought and they all said to me it was strictly "professional".


That sounds to me like a MONUMENTALLY bad idea. Why go to go workers? You are involving too many people. Plus, the coworkers are much more likely to "have his back" (or hers) than to be direct with you. Not saying they are "covering for obvious hanky-panky", but they will almost certainly be predisposed to support him short of bad blood in the office.

Again I suggest: talk to your husband.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...




If you had previously talked with your hubby that going out with other women on business "dinner" is a no no, then he should of respected that boundary.

The fact he didn't tell you, went out with this other woman and you found out through his co workers isn't cool in my books.

If a female co worker of mine wanted to take me out to dinner and I didn't tell Mrs.CuddleBug, my wife would flip.

I would of told this other woman, no thanks but maybe we can have our lunch break together.

Would I like it if my wife went out with a male co worker for dinner a few times, never told me and I found out through her co workers, I would be wondering, what's going on?
*
"I would say you don't do something like this, unless you let your other half know and they're cool with it."*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your mistake was in asking his coworkers. Do you think they're going to throw him to the wolves? They are his coworkers. Yes, they're your friends, too (only because you're married to him). Whatever they said is suspect unless they worked with the two of them 20 years ago.

Next time, ask your own coworkers - their opinions are just as relevant.

Have you separated your finances so his extra curricular activities don't affect you financially?

He may have been immature 20 years ago - he's twenty years older now and should know how to conduct himself in a professional and ethical manner. If he doesn't, don't look for it.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

This is easy

1. You obviously aren't comfortable with it and men who care about their partners that is more than enough reason not to play the 1:1

2. Twice he's done this and never told you a word. Huge ass red flag.

Now start taking to hubby about it.

His date nights should end. It's not typical for people to be at dinner alone with the opposite sec despite what people may try to convince you of.



Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I have done so because it's fairly common in my field of work to travel with other married people. I have never considered it cheating because it isn't.


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## TiredHubby2791 (Aug 26, 2015)

If he knew it bothered you, then he should have turned down the invite. This doesn't mean he is cheating on you and it doesn't mean she is interested in him. This was a poor choice on her part to "repay a debt" and his for not turning her down. Just get it out in the open that it bothers you and you are not comfortable with it and leave it at that. If he apologizes and complies, then problem solved. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.


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## affaircoach (Jun 4, 2016)

I think you are beginning to see a pattern...lack of trust.....If it wasn't a big deal, then why was he not transparent up front regarding the dinner...when you throw in other things like strip clubs, money, gambling, my guess is that other things are going on as well.

I would suggest that you confront him about this and put into place some boundaries that both of you agree upon....for instance, okay to go to dinner; however, needs to let you know ahead of time with whom, date, time and of course, he should check in periodically.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Susie42 said:


> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.


Lunch in the cafeteria at the office is fine, lunch offsite is borderline, dinner together after work is unacceptable.


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## phazari (Jun 5, 2016)

I haven't gone out to dinner like that, but I do go out to lunch with a lady I work with a few times a week just to unwind a bit. We stay on-campus and just talk about non-work stuff. No big deal.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

affaircoach said:


> I think you are beginning to see a pattern...lack of trust.....If it wasn't a big deal, then why was he not transparent up front regarding the dinner...when you throw in other things like strip clubs, money, gambling, my guess is that other things are going on as well.
> 
> I would suggest that you confront him about this and put into place some boundaries that both of you agree upon....for instance, okay to go to dinner; however, needs to let you know ahead of time with whom, date, time and of course, he should check in periodically.


I apologize for not responding to my post for a long time. I have been consumed with things at home.

I read everyone's post. I appreciate the advice. Basically it boils down to a huge trust issue with my husband which has devastated our marriage. I handled things poorly. I should of never contacted the co-workers. 

I am leaning towards divorce more and more. The trust issue isn't just over this situation of hiding dinners from me. The lies about the strip clubs, gambling, late nights, coming home drunk, not telling me that he was at a bar with several female co-workers. Yeah, it doesn't look good at all. In addition to all of this I found out he had "private" lap dances. This included one on one in a PRIVATE room with a naked stripper for 20 minutes. Touching happened between him and the stripper. In my book this is cheating. There was no sex, but still.... Sexual intent was there. He touched her breasts. She grinded his crotch until he had a happy ending. She touched his **** with her hand. Yep, this is cheating. This is why I am leaning towards a divorce. 

I am devastated and feel betrayed.

:frown2:


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


No, sh¡tty for you.
I'm a man (33) and would be like wtf if a co worker asked me to meet her for dinner 1:1… and I would be like WTF if my SO did the same.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeah, I have learned that for the past 25 years of marriage...lunches, dinners, bars, and strip clubs were hidden from me. Now for anyone to say it was because I was a controlling wife this is not true. I never said NO to my husband when he did tell me he was going somewhere with his guy friends. He has been all over the country. He has taken trips (on a plane) to multiple areas of the Country for his "Guy Trips" with his friends. At least once a week for the past 25 years, I knew he was out with his guy friends.... He wouldn't come home till late. (2am). What I am pissed about is the fact that he has hidden information from me such as: Strip Clubs, Lap Dances, Drinking at Bars with Female Co-Workers, out for dinner with Female Co-Workers. I found out that this happened a lot. He also knew how I felt about strip clubs. He promised me that he would not go to any. This is why I am devastated. I am not the jealous, psycho wife who is controlling. Not at all! I was taken advantage of and betrayed. When husbands hide what they are doing and who they are with this becomes a problem. At the very least, it raises doubt in your wife's head and destroys trust. Once trust is destroyed it is hard to get back.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I go to lunch routinely 1:1 with two different female friends from my office. I also went to happy hour a couple times a month with my female boss when I worked in the city. I never had an interest in any of them other than friends and mentors.

It can be innocent, it can be a cause for concern, it depends on a lot of different factors.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> I go to lunch routinely 1:1 with two different female friends from my office. I also went to happy hour a couple times a month with my female boss when I worked in the city. I never had an interest in any of them other than friends and mentors.
> 
> It can be innocent, it can be a cause for concern, it depends on a lot of different factors.


Please read the entry immediately above this one and feel free to edit this response.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


No this is unacceptable. I would not tolerate it. What about all of you going? Prized idiot if you ask me.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I apologize for not responding to my post for a long time. I have been consumed with things at home.

I read everyone's post. I appreciate the advice. Basically it boils down to a huge trust issue with my husband which has devastated our marriage. I handled things poorly. I should of never contacted the co-workers.

I am leaning towards divorce more and more. The trust issue isn't just over this situation of hiding dinners from me. The lies about the strip clubs, gambling, late nights, coming home drunk, not telling me that he was at a bar with several female co-workers. Yeah, it doesn't look good at all. In addition to all of this I found out he had "private" lap dances. This included one on one in a PRIVATE room with a naked stripper for 20 minutes. Touching happened between him and the stripper. In my book this is cheating. There was no sex, but still.... Sexual intent was there. He touched her breasts. She grinded his crotch until he had a happy ending. She touched his **** with her hand. Yep, this is cheating. This is why I am leaning towards a divorce.

I am devastated and feel betrayed.

I would also like to add that these particular female Co-Worker is 8 years older than my husband, has 3 children and had an unhappy marriage. I am pretty sure she was the one who encouraged my husband to go to dinner with her and meet her at the bar with other co-workers. This particular incident did happen 20 years. However, I just learned about it recently. I am concerned about this incident as well as everything else. I do believe that they had an emotional affair with possible PA.

Of course my husband denies everything. He even denies getting a lap dance. Even when I show him proof (everything but the kitchen sink minus a videotape) he still denies everything. He has denied everything and has gaslighted me. This is why I am closer to filing for divorce. IF he came clean with everything then there would be a chance of forgiveness. 

It just sucks. I am completely devastated. I don't know how other people can be so ignorant and not care about other people's feelings.

I have been the faithful one. I have taken care of the kids. I have saved money only to find out he was blowing it on strippers. 

So sad...


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

The way I see it, you aren't the one giving up on the marriage. He had given up many times behind your back and has since been leading you on. I'm sure that hurts you more than his actions.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

foolscotton3 said:


> The way I see it, you aren't the one giving up on the marriage. He had given up many times behind your back and has since been leading you on. I'm sure that hurts you more than his actions.
> 
> Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


Yes, his actions had killed all pleasure sensors in my entire body. I lost my spark, my happiness, my will to live. I wished he would just confess. I am not sure why that would help me feel better, but at least I would have a confession from him.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I don't understand why he won't confess to the lap dances or dinner with his female co-workers?


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## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> I don't understand why he won't confess to the lap dances or dinner with his female co-workers?


He wants this all to pass so that he can go back to his carefree marriage life. Disclosure will most certainly be met with much change, new boundaries, rules, coinciding with hard work to rebuild.

He isn't capable of living up to the façade of the marriage that you're going to expect to be rebuilt.

It's like a building having a false front that makes it look much more grandiose than it really is, if that building falls, people expect that the rebuilding be grandiose, though that was never a true representation of the actual building that had fallen, and the builders might not even be capable of constructing a grandiose building, but the people expect it because that is what they were familiar with, the lie.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

foolscotton3 said:


> He wants this all to pass so that he can go back to his carefree marriage life. Disclosure will most certainly be met with much change, new boundaries, rules, coinciding with hard work to rebuild.
> 
> He isn't capable of living up to the façade of the marriage that you're going to expect to be rebuilt.
> 
> ...


So true. I wish that he would realize that lies are so damaging. You can't build a new relationship on a cracked foundation. The crazy thing is that he knows I know. This is what I don't understand. I am a very honest person. I could never lie like this to anyone.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> So true. I wish that he would realize that lies are so damaging. You can't build a new relationship on a cracked foundation. The crazy thing is that he knows I know. This is what I don't understand. I am a very honest person. I could never lie like this to anyone.


Why do you need him to admit anything? His behavior through all of this shows exactly who he is, and you can't force honesty from someone who isn't honest. Aside from giving you a feeling of vindication, you already know everything you need to know.

As difficult as it is for some people, you need to work on coming to a place of acceptance and closure from within yourself, apart from him, as that is the only place it can ever truly come from.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

nirvana said:


> ^-- ok, maybe I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know the details, but just going to lunch with a coworker does not mean a date.
> 
> Some 13 years ago, as I was leaving a job, a female coworker I had helped with something called me for coffee to the cafe. I told my wife and she went ballistic. After that experience, I stopped telling her things. I have gone to lunch with female coworkers and friends during work hours, but I don't tell her. Those were non-romantic lunches.


If they are so above board and beyond reproach, why are you hiding them from your wife?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> I don't understand why he won't confess to the lap dances or dinner with his female co-workers?


As someone who has been where you are (albeit in a much shorter marriage), you will drive yourself crazy if you continue to think this way. You will flipflop from grief to anger and back again until you think you're going crazy. Look what he has already driven you to - trying to grill his coworkers about a dinner that happened years ago. Peppering a woman he probably, maybe, might have had an affair with with emails and phone calls. Do you really want to be this person? 

You've got all the evidence you need - he went to a strip club, lied about it, had dinner with a female coworker, lied about it, let another woman touch his c*%& and lied about it. What more evidence do you need to convince yourself that he can't be trusted?

He won't confess. He's turning you into a crazy person with your pushing for it. It's not going to happen. It would involve him knocking down the wall between his 2 spheres - home and shall we say recreational - that he has spent years building. One is respectable and involves you and his family. The other is one he wouldn't want others to know about as it appears to involve strippers, gambling, and dating other women. So *of course* he is trying everything he can to keep the wall up. The thing is...the marriage isn't worth it to him. It's not worth taking that risk of compromising his respectability. YOU'RE not worth it to him. 

I was in the same position with my EXH. I might have given him a second chance if he would have confessed. Maybe. I couldn't wrap my head around why a supposedly super-moral, religious person would be totally incapable of confessing to messing around with multiple women even when confronted with the evidence. It was deny, deny, deny. And then gaslight. Don't push for it. Because he is not a person of quality. No person of quality would do this to their SO. 

So the question is, why are you putting up with this behavior? Why are you letting yourself turn into a parody of a wronged, psychotic ex? You're better than this. You deserve better than this. Just file already.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Why is this conversation still going on? Am I the only one that see's that this is possibly the most horrible husband on the planet?

Just leave him. Go to the "Going through divorce and separation" section and get advice on how to do it.

PLEASE ignore the "I have female friends, this could be innocent" crap. He's a monster.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> Have you ever went to dinner alone with a female co-worker when you were married and she was married too?
> 
> I found out that my husband went to dinner twice with a female co-worker. She took him out to dinner because he helped her finish a design/project that was soon to be released for the company they work at. She wanted to thank him for helping her, because he really did her job for her.
> 
> ...


 If he didn't tell you about it then it might be suspect. Does he normally tell you about work related activities?


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