# Defrauding a person into having a child



## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

This has to be grounds for divorce, right? My wife has been pregnant three times, and each time she intentionally sabotaged her birth control after I explicitly said I did not want her to be pregnant. She has admitted as much, of course, after we got married. 

She doesn't see any issue with this behavior, always implying "well you love the kids, don't you? So what's the problem?" Like I was in the wrong to say I didn't want to have children, and she was correcting my error for me.

And before people say "oh you should have not had sex then" well I would be fine if she took her damn birth control as intended and the (very long-shot) odds spit out a child. I knew the risk of that and was willing to accept it. I didn't know the risk so I was not able to make an informed decision.

She begged and pleaded for a baby. I always countered with a firm NO and several reasons why not. But my opinion on whether or not my life would be handed over to another person for eighteen plus years was not important, I guess.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Snip, snip...........no more worries!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The two of you should not have married in the first place. 

It is cruel to deny a woman babies when that's what she wants. 

And it's just wrong to purposely get pregnant when the husband does not want children.

When did she admit that she did this? Did you know before you had he second child? (How many children do you have?)


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

rockon said:


> Snip, snip...........no more worries!


Yes, but do not tell her about the snipping.

Tell her three on a match is unlucky.

That way she will eff your socks off trying to get preggy.
...................................................................................................

I know how to get even. Next time YOU get pregnant.


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## Hopeful Heart (Apr 23, 2017)

I can't help but think, you should have taken your own precautions, after the fist un-planned child.

I agree with Ele, you should not have gotten married


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> This has to be grounds for divorce, right? My wife has been pregnant three times, and each time she intentionally sabotaged her birth control after I explicitly said I did not want her to be pregnant. She has admitted as much, of course, after we got married.
> 
> She doesn't see any issue with this behavior, always implying "well you love the kids, don't you? So what's the problem?" Like I was in the wrong to say I didn't want to have children, and she was correcting my error for me.
> 
> ...


Ah, cut the crap!

When that little pumpkin pops out and looks at Daddy, you will eat your words. 

Piss on the money gripe. Now you will have another child to look after you when you get old and piss 'your' pants.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

My first thought after reading your post was "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". Knowing that your wife was capable of sabotaging her birth control to get pregnant, you should have taken on the responsibility of birth control after the first child. Condoms are not full proof but they are better than nothing at all. Vasectomy was also an option. What are you doing now to prevent #4?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Did she explicitly acknowledge your desire to not have kids before the marriage or was it just an offhand comment on your part with no response?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The two of you should not have married in the first place.
> 
> It is cruel to deny a woman babies when that's what she wants.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely true. This is a foundational difference of what each wants from the marriage and you two are diametrically opposed. This marriage will by its nature deny one person happiness, turns out it is you that shall not get his way. I would carefully consider how you would explain the D to your children.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> This marriage will by its nature deny one person happiness


Which inevitably leads to denying both people happiness:frown2:



NoChoice said:


> I would carefully consider how you would explain the D to your children.


No kidding! 
"Hey kids, I ditched your ma cuz' I never wanted you in the first place!" 
Even if you don't say it overtly, it's gonna' be hard to keep that from coming out in some form. No good way for a kid to take that.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Sounds like she lied to you and got pregnant to trap you, after knowing how you felt. But then you should of never married knowing she wanted kids and you didn't at the time.

Grounds for divorce, well that is up to you and if you feel like it is then it is. But you will still be paying for the kids until they reach 18 something to keep in mind.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

you state nothing other than irreconcilable differences as a grounds for divorce.

Your decision to procreate or not was always in your hands, so to speak.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

In my house, we ended up with one more than I initially wanted (my pref was to stop at 2), but once #3 was conceived, I got with the program right quick. And the marriage returned quickly to original strength. 

He is now about to graduate high school and I'm really going to miss him when he heads to college.

OP--please don't let the spite you feel towards your spouse drive you to deny yourself the joy that is possible. You're responsible either way, so you may as well enjoy the fatherhood rather than just being a reluctant child support check.

And you can hardly play the victim at this point. After the first one, maybe, but 3? You knew what the score was. 

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me!

(fool me three times? nobody's come up with a line for that one yet, but at that point, the responsibility is squarely on the fool!)


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You should have taken responsibility for your own reproductive safety.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> When did she admit that she did this? Did you know before you had he second child? (How many children do you have?)


She admitted sometime before she conceived the third time (which is shortly going to emerge as our second child).



SunCMars said:


> When that little pumpkin pops out and looks at Daddy, you will eat your words.
> 
> Piss on the money gripe. Now you will have another child to look after you when you get old and piss 'your' pants.


I already have one and of course I love him with every fiber of my being. I never said I didn't love him.

And I didn't mention money.



Lila said:


> My first thought after reading your post was "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". Knowing that your wife was capable of sabotaging her birth control to get pregnant, you should have taken on the responsibility of birth control after the first child. Condoms are not full proof but they are better than nothing at all. Vasectomy was also an option. What are you doing now to prevent #4?


I am not going to use a condom. You can barely tell you're having sex at all, let alone have an orgasm.

Asking a man to control his sexual urges when a woman is enticing him is like asking a dog to ignore a field full of steaks. Evolution has designated woman as the gatekeeper of human sexuality. The man has little control over the situation once he is aroused.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Did she explicitly acknowledge your desire to not have kids before the marriage or was it just an offhand comment on your part with no response?


She begged and pleaded for like a month straight and every time I said NO and laid out a variety of different reasons why it was a bad idea at that time, but that I wouldn't be opposed in the future. For example, I had one more year to finish my college degree which would add a great deal of financial security to the family. 

Four years later, and any hope of earning that degree will have to wait until I no longer have to work three minimum wage jobs just to keep a roof over our heads.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> OP--please don't let the spite you feel towards your spouse drive you to deny yourself the joy that is possible. You're responsible either way, so you may as well enjoy the fatherhood rather than just being a reluctant child support check.


I never said otherwise. Being a father is the greatest happiness I could ever imagine. My son makes me proud to be his dad every single day.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So i guess you're entitled to risk free, unprotected sex as a man..... that's what I'm getting from you. 

Don't want more kids? Get snipped.

Even if she wasn't sabotaging her birth control why should she have to pump herself full of hormones because you can't take responsibility for your own fertility?

It takes two.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> So i guess you're entitled to risk free, unprotected sex as a man..... that's what I'm getting from you.


Low risk. If used correctly, the chance of becoming pregnant while on birth control pills is very low. I accept that risk. Just like if I go outside when it is storming. I know I COULD get hit by lightning. But it's a small chance.

However, if I found my wife had filled my backpack with iron to make it much more likely I'd be hit, I would be angry. Would you?



> Don't want more kids? Get snipped.


While I haven't looked into it, I assume such a procedure costs money. As a person who has nearly died twice because I didn't have the money to seek out treatment, I can assure you that any procedure that costs money is not an option.



> Even if she wasn't sabotaging her birth control why should she have to pump herself full of hormones because you can't take responsibility for your own fertility?
> 
> It takes two.


As I said earlier, the woman is the gatekeeper. I have no interest in having sex with her, she can just not try to get me to have sex with her and the problem is solved. However, she entices me and I have no choice. She is the one behaving badly.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> This has to be grounds for divorce, right? My wife has been pregnant three times, and each time she intentionally sabotaged her birth control after I explicitly said I did not want her to be pregnant. She has admitted as much, of course, after we got married.
> 
> She doesn't see any issue with this behavior, always implying "well you love the kids, don't you? So what's the problem?" Like I was in the wrong to say I didn't want to have children, and she was correcting my error for me.
> 
> ...


In the United States, the grounds for divorce are "I want one". I am unaware of any state that views fault.

In any courtroom I've been a party to, if this were an actual admissible case, her culpability in the first child would probably be accepted. But on the second and third, you'd receive quite the grilling on your awareness of, and use of, birth control methods that do not depend on the woman's choices.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> Low risk. If used correctly, the chance of becoming pregnant while on birth control pills is very low. I accept that risk. Just like if I go outside when it is storming. I know I COULD get hit by lightning. But it's a small chance.
> 
> While I haven't looked into it, I assume such a procedure costs money. As a person who has nearly died twice because I didn't have the money to seek out treatment, I can assure you that any procedure that costs money is not an option.
> 
> As I said earlier, the woman is the gatekeeper. I have no interest in having sex with her, she can just not try to get me to have sex with her and the problem is solved. However, *she entices me and I have no choice*. She is the one behaving badly.


First of all, you need to become more mature. Mature people understand that THEY are responsible for their own choices. They also understand that anytime you have sex EVEN WITH BIRTH CONTROL, you are BOTH taking a chance that the woman will become pregnant. You might think that chance is low-risk, but compared to what can happen if she DOES become pregnant, I think the risk is magnified. 

You say that your wife "entices" you and that you have "no choice". Uhhh....how about a cold shower? How about masturbation? How about using a condom? How about JUST SAYING 'NO'???? If you SERIOUSLY tried to use this excuse on a judge in court, you'd be laughed out of the courtroom. Judges don't have much respect for people who blame others and don't want to take responsibility for themselves. 

If you don't want anymore children, it's up to YOU to protect YOURSELF. PERIOD. End. Of. Story. 

Even if you divorce, at some point, you'll probably start dating. You'll be in the same position regarding sex no matter WHO you have sex with. If a woman tells you she's on birth control (that is, IF you're responsible to ASK her), that doesn't mean she IS or that her method is 'reliable'.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> As I said earlier, the woman is the gatekeeper.* I have no interest in having sex with her*, she can just not try to get me to have sex with her and the problem is solved. However, she entices me and I have no choice. She is the one behaving badly.


Oh you poor thing. Your wife is abusing you, making you have sex with her. If you do not want sex with her, why are you married to her?


I'm confused. At first you said that you did not want children. Then later you said that you told your wife that you might want children later. Please clarify.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you live in the USA? Do you have health insurance?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DustyDog said:


> In the United States, the grounds for divorce are "I want one". I am unaware of any state that views fault.
> 
> In any courtroom I've been a party to, if this were an actual admissible case, her culpability in the first child would probably be accepted. But on the second and third, you'd receive quite the grilling on your awareness of, and use of, birth control methods that do not depend on the woman's choices.


I think that the point was to not use her getting pregnant against his will as the reason for a divorce. While most states have no fault statues, most still allow filing based on fault.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the point was to not use her getting pregnant against his will as the reason for a divorce. While most states have no fault statues, most still allow filing based on fault.


In the OP's case, he wouldn't have 'grounds'. Plus, even if he told her FLAT OUT that he didn't want children at all, EVER, the judge would ask him why he didn't take responsibility for birth control, especially since it's so obvious that his wife DID want children.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

If you want marginal legal advice you should call Handel on the Law. 

1. No reason is necessary to divorce. 

2. Check to see if there is even such a thing as parental entrapment in your state. Dollars to donuts say there isn't. Even if there is you still retain all rights and obligations as a parent. 

3. Blame avoidance isn't usually helpful.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> Low risk. If used correctly, the chance of becoming pregnant while on birth control pills is very low. I accept that risk. Sorry mate but it is not your risk ot accept, it would be totally your wife's and its her bodyJust like if I go outside when it is storming. I know I COULD get hit by lightning. But it's a small chance. Imagine, if you wore condoms,
> no risk to your health and only less 1% chance of pregnancy, oh I forgot, it wasn't helping you get your rocks off
> 
> However, if I found my wife had filled my backpack with iron to make it much more likely I'd be hit, I would be angry. Would you? we are hardly comparing like with like
> ...


 So it is all her fault....geez, you sound immature enough not to have children


I am not saying your wife was right, she was wrong, but it is also your responsibility.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

To me, conceiving a child by deliberate deception (by either a man or woman's actions) is an appalling thing to do. Maybe its my perspective as an (obviously) unwanted child, but doing that to a child, or the other parent is terrible. I classify it with rape as a potentially life ruining action. 

I would instantly leave any relationship where that was attempted. I'd pay required child support, but cut all other contact with the other person. It most certainly would not happen a second time. 

Here by deception, I mean taking some covert action to conceive when fully aware that your partner didn't want a child.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm becoming more and more of the red pill type. My wife claimed she was on birth control and gee it must of failed because magically she got pregnant. Anyway, I had zero desire to have babies and having sex isn't my my idea of giving "silent consent". To ensure this never happens again, I got snipped. 

Best freaking decision I ever made. And I also did it without her permission, zero f's given.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm of the firm opinion that if you do not want to be a parent, then you should take measures to ensure that you do not become one. Whether the "you" in question is male or female. If you don't want a baby, take responsibility for seeing that you don't have one! Particularly if the person you'd foolishly left it up to the first time around let you down in that regard.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Should someone really expect so little trust in a marriage? That is so sad. 

One of the great advantages of marriage is having someone you can trust. It allows you to share chores and responsibilities. 

Should I review the tax forms my wife fills out in detail? Should she cross check all of my day to day accounting to see that I'm not stealing money? Should we track each others locations? Check each other's medicine. Check that she isn't drugging me?

Should a wife insist on seeing medial records if her husband has a vasectomy? 

BTW, vasectomies are good if you are sure you never want kids, but they are not always reversible. Its possible to not want kids *now* but leave open the possibility in the future. 

Why should I not be able to trust her if she says that she is using birth control. Why isn't a failure to do as she said not a horrible betrayal? 

(to be clear, MY wife hasn't done this, or committed any other betrayal of me). 




Vega said:


> First of all, you need to become more mature. Mature people understand that THEY are responsible for their own choices. They also understand that anytime you have sex EVEN WITH BIRTH CONTROL, you are BOTH taking a chance that the woman will become pregnant. You might think that chance is low-risk, but compared to what can happen if she DOES become pregnant, I think the risk is magnified.
> 
> You say that your wife "entices" you and that you have "no choice". Uhhh....how about a cold shower? How about masturbation? How about using a condom? How about JUST SAYING 'NO'???? If you SERIOUSLY tried to use this excuse on a judge in court, you'd be laughed out of the courtroom. Judges don't have much respect for people who blame others and don't want to take responsibility for themselves.
> 
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mistakes happen, and it sounds like OP accepts that. However, if she deliberately sabotaged her birth control regimen because he wasn't yet ready for children, she is a conniving, duplicitous, lying PoS and he should divorce her if that's his inclination. I certainly wouldn't trust her to be honest in the future about birth control - or anything else.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I think that the point was to not use her getting pregnant against his will as the reason for a divorce. While most states have no fault statues, most still allow filing based on fault.


According to an acquaintance who's been a family law attorney in a dozen states (been following his wife's career around the country), even those states who do allow filing based on fault strongly discourage it because it ties up the court systems badly. Apparently it has to be pretty extreme, such as physical abuse.


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## Puny_T-Rex_Arms (Apr 20, 2017)

From what you have written, you (or both of you) are not fit to be married, much less bring a life into the world. I feel sorry for you, your wife, and (maybe) a child.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Should someone really expect so little trust in a marriage? That is so sad.
> 
> One of the great advantages of marriage is having someone you can trust. It allows you to share chores and responsibilities.
> 
> ...


Of course it's a horrible betrayal! But, do you keep trusting someone to handle the birth control after the first betrayal of this sort? How about after the second? These folks are on their THIRD round of "she said she was on the pill". Who keeps blindly trusting their partner regarding birth control after they know about the first non-accidental pregnancy, much less after the second?!? 

Yes, his wife is a horrible person who should not be married. But I'm not sure a guy who says he can't be expected to control himself when it comes to sex, and refuses to take any responsibility for three unplanned pregnancies with the same woman - who he knew was not above lying about contraception in order to get pregnant - is really much in the way of marriage material either.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Should someone really expect so little trust in a marriage? That is so sad.
> 
> One of the great advantages of marriage is having someone you can trust. It allows you to share chores and responsibilities.
> 
> ...



It's not so much about 'trust' but _responsibility_ for ourselves. 

To expect ONE party to a couple to be solely responsible for birth control puts a huge burden on the other. After all, even with the best of intentions, birth control _can_ and does fail. How would the OP have felt/what would he have thought if he KNEW that he didn't want children NOW, and 'her' birth control failed? Would he have secretly believed that she sabotaged it? 

The point is, that if *you* don't want children--whether married or unmarried, 'now' or NEVER-- it's up to *you* to do something about it...and not leave your decision in someone else's hands. 

The OP has choices. He can abstain from having sex (regardless of what he says...)...he can masturbate...he can use a condom...he can get a vasectomy. All of those are options for_ him _to do, since _he_ is the one who doesn't want children. 

What I don't like about the OP's posts is that he puts ALL of the responsibility for birth control on his partner even though HE'S the one who doesn't want children. To me, that's unfair.

And after being involved with enough court room scenarios, I've seen judges rule the same way.


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## Todd Haberdasher (Apr 23, 2017)

If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex. 

I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


This has been a common defense used by cheaters, rapists, cads and unsavory louts throughout history.

"I'm not responsible for my own actions because she turned me on".

If you are a man, you should have been made aware at some point in your life of a little thing called self control.


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## hylton7 (Jan 24, 2017)

does she want to have a baby though?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

No I wouldn't keep trusting, I'd divorce immediately. I don't want to spend my life with someone I can't trust on something so important. 



Rowan said:


> Of course it's a horrible betrayal! But, do you keep trusting someone to handle the birth control after the first betrayal of this sort? How about after the second? These folks are on their THIRD round of "she said she was on the pill". Who keeps blindly trusting their partner regarding birth control after they know about the first non-accidental pregnancy, much less after the second?!?
> 
> Yes, his wife is a horrible person who should not be married. But I'm not sure a guy who says he can't be expected to control himself when it comes to sex, and refuses to take any responsibility for three unplanned pregnancies with the same woman - who he knew was not above lying about contraception in order to get pregnant - is really much in the way of marriage material either.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Birth control should be discussed and agreed upon. Once that agreement is reached it is a betrayal to violate it, whether its a woman skipping birth control she agreed to use, or a man removing a condom he agreed to use. 

If you never want children, then I agree that a vasectomy is a good idea. I do think there is room though for someone who doesn't want children, but wants to leave open the possibility of a change in mind. 

Birth control does fail, and if it does, then there is the risk of unwaranted suspicion. In this case I don't know if the OP had more certain information. 






Vega said:


> It's not so much about 'trust' but _responsibility_ for ourselves.
> 
> To expect ONE party to a couple to be solely responsible for birth control puts a huge burden on the other. After all, even with the best of intentions, birth control _can_ and does fail. How would the OP have felt/what would he have thought if he KNEW that he didn't want children NOW, and 'her' birth control failed? Would he have secretly believed that she sabotaged it?
> 
> ...


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


OP,
I am a man and have never experienced what you describe. Perhaps a cranial MRI would help clarify the cause of this phenomenon. It may also shed some light on your showing no self control nor willingness to take responsibility for your reproductive capabilities.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think "no higher mental function" is an exaggeration, but I think men (and probably women) do become less careful and long-term thinking when they are aroused. 






Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Vega said:


> It's not so much about 'trust' but _responsibility_ for ourselves.
> 
> To expect ONE party to a couple to be solely responsible for birth control puts a huge burden on the other. After all, even with the best of intentions, birth control _can_ and does fail. How would the OP have felt/what would he have thought if he KNEW that he didn't want children NOW, and 'her' birth control failed? Would he have secretly believed that she sabotaged it?
> 
> ...


Would you say the same if you turn the situation around? What if she didn't want kids, he did, she couldn't use birth control because of side effects, and he sabotaged the condoms? She should be taking more responsibility, or she can abstain and masturbate and forego sexual intercourse, or have her tubes tied. IT WOULD BE HER FAULT THAT SHE GOT PREGNANT, IN THAT CASE.

If you AGREE how birth control is handled in your relationship, then it is the responsibility of the person actually using it to do so properly. Accidents can happen, but deliberately misusing or sabotaging birth control is entirely on the person doing that.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Would you say the same if you turn the situation around? What if she didn't want kids, he did, she couldn't use birth control because of side effects, and he sabotaged the condoms? She should be taking more responsibility, or she can abstain and masturbate and forego sexual intercourse, or have her tubes tied. IT WOULD BE HER FAULT THAT SHE GOT PREGNANT, IN THAT CASE.
> 
> If you AGREE how birth control is handled in your relationship, then it is the responsibility of the person actually using it to do so properly. Accidents can happen, but deliberately misusing or sabotaging birth control is entirely on the person doing that.


Yes, I WOULD say the same thing if the situation was turned around. But the chances of her not being able to use ANY kind of birth control because of side effects is pretty slim. She DOES have similar options: She can masturbate, have her tubes tied and abstain. 

You keep on looking for "fault". The OP has to take responsibility for what HE did/failed to do BEFORE pointing any fingers at her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Vega said:


> Yes, *I WOULD say the same thing* if the situation was turned around. But the chances of her not being able to use ANY kind of birth control because of side effects is pretty slim. She DOES have similar options: She can masturbate, have her tubes tied and abstain.
> 
> You keep on looking for "fault". The OP has to take responsibility for what HE did/failed to do BEFORE pointing any fingers at her.


Well, that's something. However, there IS fault: *hers*, for deliberately breaking her vows and agreements, lying about her intentions, and hiding what she did until she got what she wanted. Her transgression is equivalent to cheating. The OPs only failure here was to trust in his wife's integrity - he couldn't know she was duplicitous until it was too late.

My example of being unable to use birth control isn't really the issue - what if she didn't want to use birth control, and relied on him? That would be the more accurate mirror scenario.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> he couldn't know she was duplicitous until it was too late.


Sure. The first time. Maybe the second if you're real generous. But the third? Not a chance. The more I contemplate this one, the more I think the OP deliberately walks into traffic and then complains that he got hit by a car.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

@Todd Haberdasher, in your post in the thread about the sweet "boring" girl, you say, "I married "safe". I know my wife will never leave me or cheat on me. She will always have a reasonably tasty meal waiting for me. She will be a good mother. But there is nothing remotely interesting about her and every conversation is a giant chore."

Ha!Ha! Maybe your wife isn't so sweet and boring afterall!


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> Asking a man to control his sexual urges when a woman is enticing him is like asking a dog to ignore a field full of steaks. Evolution has designated woman as the gatekeeper of human sexuality. The man has little control over the situation once he is aroused.





Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.












The Pervocracy: The Myth of the Boner Werewolf.

I feel sad for you, with having less self-control than a dog.



Todd Haberdasher said:


> Low risk. If used correctly, the chance of becoming pregnant while on birth control pills is very low. I accept that risk. Just like if I go outside when it is storming. I know I COULD get hit by lightning. But it's a small chance.
> 
> However, if I found my wife had filled my backpack with iron to make it much more likely I'd be hit, I would be angry. Would you?


Yep. I'd be so angry the FIRST time it happened, that I would be packing my own backpack after that. There would not be a second time, or third.

So, by leaving birth control to your proven manipulative wife, you are taking a less than small risk that she will get pregnant. Which is more cost-effective for you, the snip, or child #4?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Well HERE'S a crazy thought.

Instead of selfishly demanding that SHE inject chemicals into _her_ body over and over and over again because you don't want any more kids, how about *YOU* actually taking responsibility for contraception?

Yes, I know it's a whole *new* concept for you, isn't it? It always *is* for selfish schmucks who just want the fun without the responsibility.

Go to your doctor and get a damned vasectomy. You don't want kids? Then take responsibility for it and stop your selfish, cowardly whining.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> As I said earlier, the woman is the gatekeeper. I have no interest in having sex with her, she can just not try to get me to have sex with her and the problem is solved. However, she entices me and I have no choice. She is the one behaving badly.


You really are some piece of work. You're just a victim, is that it? 

A fool whose SO damned selfish he refuses to use a condom and doesn't want to do a DAMNED thing to prevent pregnancy except piss and moan that it's all his wife's fault.


> While I haven't looked into it, I assume such a procedure costs money. As a person who has nearly died twice because I didn't have the money to seek out treatment, I can assure you that any procedure that costs money is not an option.


Well of COURSE it's not. Because you'd actually have to DO something other than demand your WIFE do something. And besides, it's MUCH cheaper to continually have babies than it is to pay for a vasectomy. Good lord.

I can't imagine how ignorant one must be to actually allow their genitals to do their thinking FOR them. Truly pitiful.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


LMAO. You just appear more and more pitiful every time you post.

But since you seemingly weren't given the control that even your average dung beetle possesses, I would have to imagine you'll continue to be* 'victimized' *sexually and will STILL be whining even after kids #5, #6 and #7 are born.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LMAO. You just appear more and more pitiful every time you post.
> 
> But since you seemingly weren't given the control that even your average dung beetle possesses, I would have to imagine you'll continue to be* 'victimized' *sexually and will STILL be whining even after kids #5, #6 and #7 are born.


It's the same mentality as in countries where men can't be expected control themselves around 8 year old girls.

Because said 8 year old girl "seduced" them and they can't be expected to consider anything beyond their erection. 

What a sad, juvenile way to live.

I'm glad I married a man who behaves like an actual adult.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> I am not going to use a condom. You can barely tell you're having sex at all, let alone have an orgasm.



LOL, then let me be the first to congratulate you on #4.....and #5.......and #6.......and....you get the picture. 




Todd Haberdasher said:


> Asking a man to control his sexual urges when a woman is enticing him is like asking a dog to ignore a field full of steaks. Evolution has designated woman as the gatekeeper of human sexuality. The man has little control over the situation once he is aroused.


Uhm....Nope. If you want to admit you have little to no self-control then by all means, go ahead, but please do not assume you speak for all men. YOU are like a dog in a field full of steaks. YOU have no self control over your sexual urges. YOU are the irresponsible one who refuses to take control of birth control because "it doesn't feel as good, waaaahhhh". YOU are the one the problem. Don't go dragging good men down with you.


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## muiscq (Mar 19, 2013)

I agree with you partly on this. If a women tells me that she is on the pill then I believe that is she was not; that should be a crime. It's the same as asking if you have had a STD check and you say yes and I'm clean. But never went to check. This is a crime. True that he is a grow person and is responsible to a point. Bu if your doing your homework and asking the right questions and getting answers, well what else can you do.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

muiscq said:


> I agree with you partly on this. If a women tells me that she is on the pill then I believe that is she was not; that should be a crime. It's the same as asking if you have had a STD check and you say yes and I'm clean. But never went to check. This is a crime. True that he is a grow person and is responsible to a point. Bu if your doing your homework and asking the right questions and getting answers, *well what else can you do*.


Actually take responsibility over your own body? Take preventative measures until you have actual proof that what your partner is saying is true - you know - Trust but verify? And, most importantly, don't keep making the same mistakes over and over again expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well HERE'S a crazy thought.
> 
> Instead of selfishly demanding that SHE inject chemicals into _her_ body over and over and over again because you don't want any more kids, how about *YOU* actually taking responsibility for contraception?
> 
> ...


By this logic, I could have put holes in all my condoms and it would be HER fault if she got pregnant, because SHE should have taken responsibility for contraception. Too bad if we agreed that I'd take care of contraception when she's not on any, and too bad that she trusts me to be honest and responsible about using those condoms. Oh well, tough luck!

Believe me, I too think the OP is an ass-wipe and a can short of a six-pack, but he's not wrong about her lying, cheating behavior.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> By this logic, I could have put holes in all my condoms and it would be HER fault if she got pregnant, because SHE should have taken responsibility for contraception. Too bad if we agreed that I'd take care of contraception when she's not on any, and too bad that she trusts me to be honest and responsible about using those condoms. Oh well, tough luck!
> 
> Believe me, I too think the OP is an ass-wipe and a can short of a six-pack, but he's not wrong about her lying, cheating behavior.



If your partner found out you'd been poking holes in the condoms to trick her into a pregnancy, and kept trusting you with the sole responsibility for all contraception, she'd eventually lose the right to complain about another pregnancy. She knew you were a liar, she knew you'd deceive her to get her pregnant, so it's not like she was really blindsided. Especially not after the third such pregnancy. 

No doubt the OP's wife is a liar and has gravely betrayed him. But he knew she was a liar and would betray him, and kept sleeping with her without protecting himself even after he knew it. At some point, an adult has to take responsibility for themselves and the choices they make in their life. The OP in this case keeps choosing to believe a known liar. He keeps choosing to make his wife 100% responsible for contraception, even though he knows she's deceived him in order to get pregnant three times now. He could have chosen to leave his lying wife, or to manage his own contraception himself, or to resign himself to keep having babies he says he doesn't want with a woman who repeatedly betrays him. But if he picks option three, he doesn't really have the right to keep _complaining_ about choosing option three. That's the choice he's made and he can change it at any time. But, again, he's choosing not to. 

If someone keeps knowingly tolerating the same bad behavior from the same person, over and over, they are no longer a victim but a volunteer.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree, @Rowan. He learned of her deception AFTER the second pregnancy, so at that point it became his responsibility to deal with it. I did say that he does not sound like the brightest bulb on the tree, but I think his lack of action here is beyond dim.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

For the posters who keep telling the OP to run out and get a vasectomy, you are forgetting something. The Doctor's office will require the permission of the wife before any procedure will be scheduled. 

So if she wants children, the husband is restricted to condoms, pulling out, rhythm, or abstinence. Or in this case - trusting his W to tell the truth about her bc pills.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> For the posters who keep telling the OP to run out and get a vasectomy, you are forgetting something. The Doctor's office will require the permission of the wife before any procedure will be scheduled.
> 
> So if she wants children, the husband is restricted to condoms, pulling out, rhythm, or abstinence. Or in this case - trusting his W to tell the truth about her bc pills.



(setting aside for now the other moral and/or logical arguments about whether or not it is the man's responsibility to get snipped)
I believe that is a doctor's choice whether or not to requires spousal consent. It is not a law. if your doc requires this, go to another doc.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

When I had a vasectomy in my late 20s, the doctor said he could not perform the procedure without my W's signature on the consent form, because "it is required by law". 

It was what we both wanted at the time so she signed it, but I remember debating it with the Doctor's office. If my W wants a tubal ligation, an abortion, or even birth control pills is there a similar required consent form for husbands? No.

Imagine a lady trying to get bc pills and the Doctor says "unless you are married and get your husband's signed approval, I can't give you any". It seems women's reoroductive rights are much stronger than men's.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> When I had a vasectomy in my late 20s, the doctor said he could not perform the procedure without my W's signature on the consent form, because "it is required by law".
> 
> It was what we both wanted at the time so she signed it, but I remember debating it with the Doctor's office. If my W wants a tubal ligation, an abortion, or even birth control pills is there a similar required consent form for husbands? No.
> 
> Imagine a lady trying to get bc pills and the Doctor says "unless you are married and get your husband's signed approval, I can't give you any". It seems women's reoroductive rights are much stronger than men's.


I did some digging and could find no such requirement. Without a legal source, I'm going to have a hard time believing that.

If that was indeed true, however, I would agree with you 100% on the double standard.


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## MrRight (Apr 17, 2017)

Shouldnt have married her if she wants kids and you dont.

I do understand though.

Mine was taking BC or said she was for months when we first met - later I found that she was takking nothing at all - and after 6 months I was lulled into a false sense of security thinking she or me infertile.

But guess what - after 1 year she got pregnant.

Yep - I'm signed up to the 18 year prison term too. But I made damn sure she never got pregnant again - why didnt you start using condoms after the first child?

This is why guys who dont want kids should use condoms - they are remarkably effective.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Todd,
My vasectomy copay was $10. The average child in the US costs more than 200K (half that is college tuition). You do the math. 

Many clinics offer low cost vasectomies. 

It don't believe your aversion to a vasectomy is financial. If you were that broke, you would have had one after the first accidental pregnancy. 

And presenting yourself as a total victim - isn't just going to bring down the wrath of the crowd here - it WILL kill your wife's desire for you over time. 





Todd Haberdasher said:


> Low risk. If used correctly, the chance of becoming pregnant while on birth control pills is very low. I accept that risk. Just like if I go outside when it is storming. I know I COULD get hit by lightning. But it's a small chance.
> 
> However, if I found my wife had filled my backpack with iron to make it much more likely I'd be hit, I would be angry. Would you?
> 
> ...


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## Inquisitive1 (Feb 17, 2017)

LOL @ OP! Well, your kids are here now so there is no real point in complaining. If being childless was really that important to you then you would have done something about it. Clearly it wasn't or you're just really lazy. You shouldn't have married someone who wants kids. Now all you are is a cautionary tale. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What she did is the same as 'stealthing.' And that's considered sexual assault.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


:rofl: :lol: :wtf:


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> For the posters who keep telling the OP to run out and get a vasectomy, you are forgetting something. The Doctor's office will require the permission of the wife before any procedure will be scheduled.
> 
> So if she wants children, the husband is restricted to condoms, pulling out, rhythm, or abstinence. Or in this case - trusting his W to tell the truth about her bc pills.


Um no, I didn't have to sign a thing when my husband went in for a vasectomy.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Todd Haberdasher said:


> If you are a man, then you are familiar with the fact that, once a certain point of arousal has been reached, the animal instincts take over and there is no higher mental function until after the act is completed. If you ask the man his name he will not be able to tell you, as that is a brain function and those switch off during sex.
> 
> I didn't know women were unfamiliar with this fact.


It isn't a fact it is a lie told by those who do not want to accept responsibility for their actions. I just finished reading so, I understand why the thread is so short.

I nibbled, but you can have your bait back.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Um no, I didn't have to sign a thing when my husband went in for a vasectomy.


Mine was in the 90s, so maybe the laws have changed in my location.


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