# Give me some thoughts



## destroyd

Sorry this is long. Looking for some thoughts here- especially from the ladies. Wife and I have been married 12 years. I am 47, my wife 38. We have two children, 6 & 10 years old. Wife has historically had a bit higher desire than I have, but we had a reasonable sex life. Wife wanted a third child, but I felt we had all we could handle, but never said no- just not right now. Found out 11 months ago wife was in an affair with her boss. 

Much has happened in the last few years- my elderly mother became terminally ill and passed away. We had a unplanned pregnancy and miscarriage. My professional career of 18 years became jepardized- company I worked for was failing- caused me a lot of stress and ended up with me being layed off due to downsizing. Shortly after being layed off I discovered by reading text messages that my wife was involved with her boss at her workplace, and had been in a physical affair for much of the preceding year. The affair was primarily conducted in Hotels during business travel, but also in the office where they worked. She trickle truthed me for about a week- then finally admitted to the affair, gave me details, complete transparency, does not travel with OM any more, does not work late, does not spend any time alone with him anymore. 

But, since I am out of work, and we must have her salary to survive, she still works at the same job. She is in administration and makes a good salary. I did not expose the affair to our families or her workplace, as we need her job and insurance. We went through a period of hysterical bonding after the affair- sometimes having sex multiple times day for a couple of months. Now, a few more months down the road sex has fallen off again. She swears that the affair is over. I see no evidence suggesting the affair is continuing, however she still works in close contact with her AP and they must communicate on business matters. 

She claims when pressed on the matter, that she is just not in a place mentally where sex is a priority. She is close to finishing getting her MBA. She claims that I have not been searching for a job, and that is showing her that she and our family's future does not matter to me. That could not be farther from the truth. I literally feel her pulling back away from me. She has now cut off intimacy and gives me every excuse in the book to avoid sex, but claims she wants to save the marriage, and that she still loves me and wants us to make it. 

I have had depression with all that's happened, and been taking meds for depression and occasionally sleep aids as I have had much trouble sleeping since D-day. Now, 11 months out, I am feeling much better, but my esteem has taken a helluva beating and I still have bad days. I'm just doing the best I can. 

I worked and commuted for 18 years straight at a stressful engineering career in a specialized field. There is no other opportunity to find work in this field within several states of where we live. I am basically looking at starting completely over in a career in a different field of work when I do find something I am suited for. We live in a small town- we do not live in an area of the country where engineering jobs become available often. I have friends and aquaintances watching all the likely places where a job may come available, and check into leads on jobs that sound suitable. So far, after a year nothing has appeared that I am a good fit for. 

My family owns timber land and we have cut a substantial amount of timber this year, so we are comfortable right now with money- not 'wife quit your job' comfortable- but we could go a couple of years like we are, supplementing my wife's salary with the timber proceeds. All of our debt is payed off now, except for the mortgage. 

I have been taking care of our children, handling all school duties for them, keeping them fulltime right now, all of the shopping, doctor & dentist appts, all of the cooking, cleaning, much of the laundry, keeping an acre yard, all of the maintenance, keeping up a rental property that we own, and taking care of many animals that our family has- 9 cats, 3 dogs, rabbits, turtles, and several fish aquariums, and also taking care of my wife's elderly mother at times- buying her groceries, Dr appointments, ER visits in the middle of the night, helping her keep her living area clean. My wife studys for her degree much of the time, and I have to keep the kids entertained and give her peace and quiet. She is also trying to lose weight, and spends a large amount of time on the treadmill. I swear that I am doing all I can, but its more than one person can manage- its a large house, and its a ton of work to keep things straight with the kids and animals constantly making messes. Her attitude is since I am not working a job, the house should be spotless. Wife complains about everything I do. Seems I can do nothing right. If I try to do one thing for myself, hobbies, interests, friends, she attacks me with 'why aren't you looking for a job instead?'. 

My wife claims I am not "holding up my end of the marriage" because I haven't taken just any old job to try to help ends meet. I have brought into our household this year around double what my yearly salary was between my mothers inheritance, and the timber cutting. She claims I'm not trying to find a job, and its embaressing to her. How the hell can I, doing what I'm doing? It's not that simple, because if I'm not doing all this stuff I'm doing, it has to get done somehow. If we put the kids in daycare, and I take a lower paying job, then much of what I make will go straight to paying daycare, and everything else I am doing will still have to be done somehow, and strangers will be raising our kids. I do not intend for this situation to be long term. Doing what I'm doing until I can find a GOOD job just makes the most sense to me. I AM looking for a job, just haven't found one yet. 

Before I was layed off, we both commuted, logistics with getting the kids to school were strained, we argued about housework, we were living paycheck to paycheck- lots of debt, lots of stress- lots of issues that contributed to us drifting apart and making her affair possible. The affair was with a new younger boss that was transferred in from another location. They worked long hours together, lunched together and traveled together. She was literally spending more time with him than me because of work. She made bad choices and they fell into an affair. Never in the fifteen years I have known my wife have we ever had any of these kind of problems. She's the last person I ever would have expected this from. By the time I started noticing signs, it had been going on about 8 months. She claimed she felt like I didn't love her anymore. Uh, no, I was busy while life was beating the **** out of me, and she decides the answer is to bang another man. The OM was feeding her his line of **** and she fell hard for it. He is single, and much younger than me. There is no other spouse for me to expose the affair to. He lives over an hour away. As much as I wanted to, I never confronted the guy. 

Now, when we are supposed to be reconciling, 11 months after D-day, she has cut me off emotionally and sexually, claiming its because I have not taken a job yet, and she's just acting squirrelly about our future- just will not have meaningful conversations about our issues. All she wants to do is turn anything I say around to talking about me not having a job yet. Yes, she wants to rugsweep. Much of our problem now is because I check up on her and refuse to let her rugsweep. She refuses any type of counseling- doesn't believe in it. 

My question- is my not finding a job by now, given our situation, something that she has a right to feel is a marriage dealbreaker? Or does it point more towards her and OM starting the affair back up underground? Or maybe she just wants out, but can't say so? I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on because of how she views the job situation. I am struggling with feeling she is not 'all in' the reconciliation- especially lately since she is more distant. Any thoughts?


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## GusPolinski

They're still f*cking.

Get a job and file for divorce.


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## bandit.45

You have an unrepentant, entitled wife who has done nothing to heal the marriage or make you feel safe as a husband. My take is she most likely tried to up her social standing by having an affair with her boss. I would suspect she was doing her best to get him to take her so she could dump you and marry him but it did not turn out the way she wanted. What it boils down to is she is greedy, ambitious and cares nothing about your needs or feelings. You have become an inconvenience to her. 

She continues to work at the same place of employment, with her affair partner, and now that she is the primary breadwinner, what smidgen of respect she may have had for you is gone, dead, finito... 

She is fine having you as a housekeeper, babysitter, employee.........b!tch........

I can keep going. Would you like me to keep going? Do you see how wrong this is on all levels? 

Me? I would rather leave her and live in a cardboard box under a bridge than continue to be disrespected the way she has disrespected you. 

Your only hope to even have a shot at saving this marriage and returning to full status as an equal partner is to get a job that pays equal to or more than hers, for her to go to marriage counseling with you, quit her present job and start showing some real, honest remorse for cheating on you. I see maybe a 5% chance of that happening. 

Borrow some money and file for divorce, get a job that will allow you to get your own place, hit her up for alimony, fight for 50% custody of your kids, and get out of this nightmare with what little self-respect you have left. The marriage is a farce my friend.


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## Buddy400

destroyd said:


> My question- is my not finding a job by now, given our situation, something that she has a right to feel is a marriage dealbreaker?


Whether or not she "has a right" to feel that not getting a job is a dealbreaker doesn't matter.

She *does* think it's a dealbreaker. So it matters.

As liberated as most women think they are, most still don't feel attracted to men that don't provide (monetarily).

Whether or not she's still banging the boss is almost beside the point.


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## badmemory

You seem to be the classic case of a BS finding this site too late. You made a lot of the same mistakes many BS's do. The good news, is that you can make a plan for correcting them; if you have the intestinal fortitude to do so.

First, you should not have accepted them continuing to work together. At worst, you should have given her a short deadline to find another job. That's the first thing that needs correcting.

Second, you're not finding a job during this time has not helped, but it pales in comparison to her having an A and continuing to work with the AP. And it certainly gives her no privilege to act toward you as she has. If she ever was remorseful, she no longer is. You can either accept that or not. I'd suggest you don't, and tell her as much.

Expand your job search area. You may have to relocate. Create an exit strategy and stop accepting her non-remorse. Give her a deadline for finding another job. If she doesn't comply, and I doubt she will, implement the 180 to detach. An immediate divorce may not be practical until you find a job, but once you do, you can put yourself back in control.

Sorry you're here.


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## tryingpatience

The affair probably went underground. They still work together. The baby that was lost could have been his btw. Just something to thing about.

If you don't believe that she still isn't cheating then get a VAR and find out.


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## Happilymarried25

Your wife still might be seeing the OM, or after being with him she isn't content to be with you and you not having a job just another reason to complain. I think you not working is working best for your family especially your children. Your children need you especially with her studying so much. It's not like you can't pay your bills and are behind. A lot of men stay home while their wives work.

She has a bad attitude for someone who has cheated on her husband. She should be grateful that you have stayed and forgiven her and that she still has an intact family. Complaining about you not having a job, not keeping the house clean enough and withholding emotional and physical affection is not a way to keep the marriage together. Is she trying to drive you away so she can be with the OM? I don't know. I think how you are handling this is great for your family. 

I think most people here will tell you to divorce her because of the affair but I believe in giving people second chances especially when children are in the picture but she doesn't seem to be remorseful for her affair so that will make it tough to reconcile.


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## kristin2349

bandit.45 said:


> You have an unrepentant, entitled wife who has done nothing to heal the marriage or make you feel safe as a husband. My take is she most likely tried to up her social standing by having an affair with her boss. I would suspect she was doing her best to get him to take her so she could dump you and marry him but it did not turn out the way she wanted. What it boils down to is she is greedy, ambitious and cares nothing about your needs or feelings. You have become an inconvenience to her.
> 
> She continues to work at the same place of employment, with her affair partner, and now that she is the primary breadwinner, what smidgen of respect she may have had for you is gone, dead, finito...
> 
> She is fine having you as a housekeeper, babysitter, employee.........b!tch........
> 
> I can keep going. Would you like me to keep going? Do you see how wrong this is on all levels?
> 
> Me? I would rather leave her and live in a cardboard box under a bridge than continue to be disrespected the way she has disrespected you.
> 
> Your only hope to even have a shot at saving this marriage and returning to full status as an equal partner is to get a job that pays equal to or more than hers, for her to go to marriage counseling with you, quit her present job and start showing some real, honest remorse for cheating on you. I see maybe a 5% chance of that happening.
> 
> Borrow some money and file for divorce, get a job that will allow you to get your own place, hit her up for alimony, fight for 50% custody of your kids, and get out of this nightmare with what little self-respect you have left. The marriage is a farce my friend.



You asked to hear from females so I will say I agree with Bandit. 

This situation is a mess and your WW is letting you circle the drain. You need to get yourself out of this mess and fast. Start by finding a job, anything for now. Get in contact with some headhunters or recruiters, do something. You managed with daycare and housework when you were working before, you can do so again.

Your wife is still in her affair. There is no way you can reconcile doing what you are doing. Her working with the POSOM and still banging him (with 99% certainty), and you playing her housekeeper and nanny. Ugh, wake up! 

I know your self esteem took a beating but the only peson who can turn this thing around is you. It is still taking a beating because you are waiting for your WW to act like a loving spouse and partner. That is not happening. So what are you going to do?


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## GusPolinski

Happilymarried25 said:


> I think how you are handling this is great for your family.


Eh... not really.



Happilymarried25 said:


> I think most people here will tell you to divorce her because of the affair...


Actually it's the affair combined w/ her complete lack of remorse that will prompt most to recommend that he opt for divorce.

And rightly so, I might add.



Happilymarried25 said:


> ...but I believe in giving people second chances...


So do most of the rest of us, but only when the WS indicates and displays (a) true remorse for his or her betrayal and (b) a desire for a "second chance".



Happilymarried25 said:


> ...especially when children are in the picture...


I'd argue that children can learn much, much more from a BS unwilling to continue in a marriage w/ a disrespectful, adulterous spouse than they can from a simpering doormat.



Happilymarried25 said:


> ...but she doesn't seem to be remorseful for her affair so that will make it tough to reconcile.


A lack of remorse -- not to mention a _complete_ lack of remorse -- will make an actual, proper reconciliation _*IMPOSSIBLE*_.


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## Vulcan2013

You could threaten to expose in the workplace to encourage the boss to transfer. 

Sounds like she has no respect for you at all. Common with a SAHD. Have you considered relocating? It doesn't sound like you're in an area with jobs in your field. 

You may want to reconsider being married to such a toxic woman. You're down, and she doesn't have your back.


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## bandit.45

There have been many repentant waywards who have come on this site and who have gotten support from us. Many. The only time we bring out the 2x4s or recommend that their BSs divorce them is when they refuse to own their sh!t, show empathy, or refuse to take responsibility for their poor decisions. 

If destroyd's WW came on here we would all recommend that she apologize to her husband, show some empathy and remorse, own her decision to cheat, come clean about the paternity of the child and quit her job. 

If she refused any of these it would be batting cage time....


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## bandit.45

Vulcan2013 said:


> You could threaten to expose in the workplace to encourage the boss to transfer.
> 
> Sounds like she has no respect for you at all. Common with a SAHD. Have you considered relocating? It doesn't sound like you're in an area with jobs in your field.
> 
> You may want to reconsider being married to such a toxic woman. You're down, and she doesn't have your back.


He could tell her *"I'm filing for divorce. I will ask for what is equitably mine and 50% custody of the kids. I want it to be a quiet, fair, amicable divorce. If you fight me, talk smack about me in public, or try to lay the blame for the failure of our marriage on my back...if I even here the smallest bit of gossip that you are talking trash about me...I will go full nuclear on your azz. I will inform you employer of what you and your boss did on company time with company assets, I will out you to our friends and family and make sure the entire community knows what a mean, cheating, nasty piece of work you are. I will tell everyone that you conceived another man's child and then conveniently miscarried.... I will make it my life's ambition to destroy you and lay waste your good reputation. You doubt? Try me....... Now, if you will just sign here please. "*


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## jorgegene

she is looking for a way out and using you as an excuse.


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## kristin2349

This is a perfect setup for the WW transitioning right to serial cheater. She faced no consequences for her affair, she is still in contact with the POSOM and her life continues on as before...Heck it is easier than before, when he was working she had to deal with her share of daycare and housework and elder care hassles. Now her SAH-BH is doing all of it and getting a verbal beat down that he isn't doing enough...

So are you going to keep putting up with this OP or are you going to take control of this situation (AKA: your life)?


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## convert

GusPolinski said:


> They're still f*cking.
> 
> *Get a job* and file for divorce.


or get a job after Divorce.

He could possibly get alimony from her


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## destroyd

Thanks for the replies. I'm reasonably sure the miscarriage was mine as it happened over a year before the OM was transferred to her workplace. The OM was nowhere near until transferred- then after knowing him 6 months she was intimate with him on a business trip. 
The affair could definitely be underground, but I keep track of her whereabouts very tightly now. If she is still intimate with him, its in an office environment. 

I would like nothing better than to sink OM's career- but my wife's would likely go down with him. I'm almost to the point of not giving a damn. 

If I expose to my family, they will run her out of town on a rail. Her family probably wouldn't care if we divorced- her sister has gone through one, and my wife's mom and dad divorced due to infidelity years ago. 

After D-day, I bought online copies of "how to help your spouse" & "not just friends" and had her read them. She read them, and showed some remorse for a period of time but she seems incapable of sustaining it. Since time has gone by and I'm still not employed, her remorse has gone away. It's like a Mexican standoff where I'm like "you aren't doing what you ought to be" and she's like "why should I, when you won't get a job". I feel like I'm going nuts with her working with the guy still, but she works in a tech industry where there aren't many jobs locally either. She's 15 years into a career that's going great. She has said if I found a job and we needed to relocate that she would. I don't want to try that unless we get our relationship back on track first. My main goal seems to be repairing our relationship at any cost, hers seems to be securing financial security.


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## kristin2349

You summed it all up in your last sentence, YOU are trying to save the relationship alone, SHE is worried about $ and HER future. You are no longer in a marriage, your wife nuked that and has shown no real interest in rebuilding it.

Sorry you are in this spot, you won't get out of it without doing something drastic.


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## bandit.45

convert said:


> or get a job after Divorce.
> 
> He could possibly get alimony from her


Yep. She wants to be a badass middle manager making the same bread as a man? Then she can take on the same risks a man does when he divorces: alimony out the wazoo and a greater share of CS.


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## Buddy400

destroyd said:


> My main goal seems to be repairing our relationship at any cost


There's the rub. You can't accomplish you goal without getting a job first.


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## Nomorebeans

Woman, here. The fastest way to stop her side of the Mexican standoff is to go get a job. Just do it. As quickly a possible. Then, if she still can't muster any true remorse and puts up some other hurdle for you, file.


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## scatty

She doesn't respect you. Without that, what kind of marriage do you have? What are you teaching your kids? You won't take any advice given to save your marriage, and just make excuses. Why are you here? What do you hope to accomplish, and what are the steps you need to to take to get there? Hope and blind faith aren't going to do you any good in this situation. I wish you the best, but if you keep doing what you're doing, you should be prepared to expect the worst. Sorry.


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> He could tell her *"I'm filing for divorce. I will ask for what is equitably mine and 50% custody of the kids. I want it to be a quiet, fair, amicable divorce. If you fight me, talk smack about me in public, or try to lay the blame for the failure of our marriage on my back...if I even here the smallest bit of gossip that you are talking trash about me...I will go full nuclear on your azz. I will inform you employer of what you and your boss did on company time with company assets, I will out you to our friends and family and make sure the entire community knows what a mean, cheating, nasty piece of work you are. I will tell everyone that you conceived another man's child and then conveniently miscarried.... I will make it my life's ambition to destroy you and lay waste your good reputation. You doubt? Try me....... Now, if you will just sign here please. "*


Compared to what she did, couldnt you think of something nasty to say to her?


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## Chaparral

Didnt you originally say they used the office for sex?

Cutting a husband off is so a cheating wife can be loyal to her lover.

Starting arguements is to relieve the cheating spouse of guilt.

Same for insisting you get a job as a reason to be a bit!ch.

Refusing to do anything around the house and b!tching about how you do it is more gaslighting.


Im not saying shes cheating but i know she is. Her actions should have gotten her thrown out since shes already proven shes a cheater on top of that.


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## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> Compared to what she did, couldnt you think of something nasty to say to her?


"You wh0re!!!!! You filthy stinking wh0re!!!!:cussing:


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## Vulcan2013

You need to get a job. 

For you, not her. Find it and relo if necessary. 

Make a plan and work it. In the early stages, the D plan is the same as the R plan. 

Implement the 180 and don't talk to her about the relationship, affair or anything else. Go as dark as you can. Document everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedDude

bandit.45 said:


> He could tell her *"I'm filing for divorce. I will ask for what is equitably mine and 50% custody of the kids. I want it to be a quiet, fair, amicable divorce. If you fight me, talk smack about me in public, or try to lay the blame for the failure of our marriage on my back...if I even here the smallest bit of gossip that you are talking trash about me...I will go full nuclear on your azz. I will inform you employer of what you and your boss did on company time with company assets, I will out you to our friends and family and make sure the entire community knows what a mean, cheating, nasty piece of work you are. I will tell everyone that you conceived another man's child and then conveniently miscarried.... I will make it my life's ambition to destroy you and lay waste your good reputation. You doubt? Try me....... Now, if you will just sign here please. "*


Quit reading my mind


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## MarriedDude

destroyd said:


> Thanks for the replies. I'm reasonably sure the miscarriage was mine as it happened over a year before the OM was transferred to her workplace. The OM was nowhere near until transferred- then after knowing him 6 months she was intimate with him on a business trip.
> The affair could definitely be underground, but I keep track of her whereabouts very tightly now. If she is still intimate with him, its in an office environment.
> 
> I would like nothing better than to sink OM's career- but my wife's would likely go down with him. I'm almost to the point of not giving a damn.
> 
> If I expose to my family, they will run her out of town on a rail. Her family probably wouldn't care if we divorced- her sister has gone through one, and my wife's mom and dad divorced due to infidelity years ago.
> 
> After D-day, I bought online copies of "how to help your spouse" & "not just friends" and had her read them. She read them, and showed some remorse for a period of time but she seems incapable of sustaining it. Since time has gone by and I'm still not employed, her remorse has gone away. It's like a Mexican standoff where I'm like "you aren't doing what you ought to be" and she's like "why should I, when you won't get a job". I feel like I'm going nuts with her working with the guy still, but she works in a tech industry where there aren't many jobs locally either. She's 15 years into a career that's going great.* She has said if I found a job and we needed to relocate that she would.* I don't want to try that unless we get our relationship back on track first. My main goal seems to be repairing our relationship at any cost, hers seems to be securing financial security.



Then accept one of those jobs several states away...Call her bluff. 

You don't have to sign the contract -just tell her that you accepted a job and the family is moving....what she does next will tell you what you need to know


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## destroyd

The truth of it is, I know that just about all I can do is just take steps to get out of this insanity. Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up their contented world. My wife and I operate well together. When we are getting along it is truly truly good. We do not let the kids witness any of our troubles. 

She says the affair was just a fantasy- she was thrown together with this guy, spent a lot of time with him, and just made a bad choice 1000 miles from home. Then, once she was in it, could not make it stop. But I have to deal with knowing she would call me from her hotel, with me sitting on the sofa at home with our kids, and then spend the night with this *******. At least five trips of a 4-5 day duration. Then, in between the trips they would stay late after work hours in the office and do it- then she would come home and kiss me on the lips and sit down and eat the supper I cooked and ***** about how bad her day was. The affair started before I lost my job. It wasnt like she became dissatisfied and went off the deep end after I became unemployed. 

After D-day, I was just a mess- like a puddle on the floor- if I'd had a job then, I probably would have lost it. Was all I could do to take care of necessities. I lay awake at night just wide awake with my heart ripping out, and she lay beside me sleeping like a puppy. When the Dr. prescribed me some AD medicine, her response was "do you really think you need that"? Like I was faking it or something. She must exist in a different reality than I do. Gone is the woman I married. This entity I live with now is cold, hard, and mean. 

I told her on D-day that she was going to have to quit her job. Her response? "OK, I'll quit, just as soon as you get a job that will support us so I can look for something else". The truth is, I had about as good a job as I'll ever get in this area we live in. I had worked my way into a good spot after 18 years and was making good money. I always made the most money since we met. This guy she was banging is young, single, lives modestly, and makes approximately twice what I did. No job I'm gonna get is gonna trump that. I'm 9 years older than my wife, and this ******* is 5 years younger. I probably can't compete with that either. I'm not overweight, but I have lost 15 lbs on the infidelity diet, and have been exercising, taking care of myself and eating better. I'm in better shape now than anytime in the last 10 years. But she's taken the best from me and turned me into a damn mess.


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## bandit.45

Quit using your kids as an excuse to stay in a miserable situation. As this progresses, you will loose more and more of what little self esteem you have. The self loathing will build and build until it poisons your soul. That rage and anger will either be directed inward, causing you illness, high blood pressure, substance abuse, depression, AD, etc... or outwards...You will begin snapping at your kids, losing your temper over little things, nihilism, you name it. You will become a dad your kids want nothing to do with and have little respect for. Is that really being a good father? 

A good father does what is best for his kids. I don't think staying in a miserable situation with a mean, unrepentant wife is the best situation. She will cheat on you again my friend, because you have demonstrated you will take whatever she dishes out and just roll over. This is why she has no respect for you. 

Read _No More Mister Nice Guy._ You can get it online.

Read _Married Man's Sex Life Primer_, also available online. 

Do t*he 180* in earnest so that you can begin detaching emotionally. Once you detach, you will have a clearer more objective view of her and her motives, your choices will become clearer.


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## kristin2349

She can only keep taking the best of you, and robbing you of the chance to get better if you let her from here out.

I get you don't want to turn the life of your children upside down, but that is on her not you.

I'm sorry you are in this situation, it sucks. Living with a remorseless narcissistic cheater will continue to suck, it sucks the life out of you along with any joy. It will destroy your health and your sanity. What you have experienced is pretty much just the start. 

It is your life and your choice, you have been given some pretty solid advice. None of it will be easy, I don't think anyone said it will be.


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## MarriedDude

destroyd said:


> The truth of it is, I know that just about all I can do is just take steps to get out of this insanity. *Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up their contented world.* My wife and I operate well together. When we are getting along it is truly truly good. We do not let the kids witness any of our troubles.
> 
> She says the affair was just a fantasy- she was thrown together with this guy, spent a lot of time with him, and just made a bad choice 1000 miles from home. Then, once she was in it, could not make it stop. But I have to deal with knowing she would call me from her hotel, with me sitting on the sofa at home with our kids, and then spend the night with this *******. At least five trips of a 4-5 day duration. Then, in between the trips they would stay late after work hours in the office and do it- then she would come home and kiss me on the lips and sit down and eat the supper I cooked and ***** about how bad her day was. The affair started before I lost my job. It wasnt like she became dissatisfied and went off the deep end after I became unemployed.
> 
> After D-day, I was just a mess- like a puddle on the floor- if I'd had a job then, I probably would have lost it. Was all I could do to take care of necessities. I lay awake at night just wide awake with my heart ripping out, and she lay beside me sleeping like a puppy. When the Dr. prescribed me some AD medicine, her response was "do you really think you need that"? Like I was faking it or something. She must exist in a different reality than I do. Gone is the woman I married. This entity I live with now is cold, hard, and mean.
> 
> I told her on D-day that she was going to have to quit her job. Her response? "OK, I'll quit, just as soon as you get a job that will support us so I can look for something else". The truth is, I had about as good a job as I'll ever get in this area we live in. I had worked my way into a good spot after 18 years and was making good money. I always made the most money since we met. This guy she was banging is young, single, lives modestly, and makes approximately twice what I did. No job I'm gonna get is gonna trump that. I'm 9 years older than my wife, and this ******* is 5 years younger. I probably can't compete with that either. I'm not overweight, but I have lost 15 lbs on the infidelity diet, and have been exercising, taking care of myself and eating better. I'm in better shape now than anytime in the last 10 years. But she's taken the best from me and turned me into a damn mess.


"Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up the illusion of their contented world."
FIFY

If this exact same scenario was happening to one of your kids what would you do? You'd tell them to drop that person like a bad habit. 

You would be right too.


----------



## MattMatt

Either she is still having an affair or she isn't.

But! She is a rubbish wife and a rubbish mother, yes, she *is* a rubbish mother, as she is cheating you and your children out of a good marriage/family.

She needs to grow up. She's supposed to be Mrs Wife, not Suzie Teen! She needs to get a grip and grow up, damn fast!

PS, has she found AP number 2?

You need to monitor her.


----------



## alte Dame

You need to start thinking outside of your marital box right now.

You have been looking for solutions for yourself within the boundaries of your marital life as you know it. How is this working for you? You have an unremorseful WW who is most likely still cheating, and who has devalued you and put you on the defensive about something as primary as your basic manhood.

You should redefine what is right and possible for you. Cast a very wide net for a new job, accepting the possibility that you could relocate. (I think, given her disrespect, that you should actually embrace the possibility.)

If your marriage is to survive after this, she needs to quit her job no matter what. Either she relocates with you or she finds a new job where you live now. She should have been doing a job search from the time she supposedly went NC with her OM in any case.

You are tying your own hands here & there is no need to do that. Start to realize that you are a proud, honorable man who deserves far better than the contempt she has been dishing out. And it is contempt. Pure and simple. Why would you accept that for yourself? (And please get past the 'for the children' rationale. It doesn't wash for many reasons, in my opinion.)

Tell her you are done being her whipping boy. Detach from her and stand up for yourself.


----------



## bandit.45

*The 180*


1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away
.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


----------



## MattMatt

Follow-up question, how much genuine remorse did you wife show?


----------



## bfree

destroyd said:


> The truth of it is, I know that just about all I can do is just take steps to get out of this insanity. Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up their contented world. My wife and I operate well together. When we are getting along it is truly truly good. We do not let the kids witness any of our troubles.
> 
> She says the affair was just a fantasy- she was thrown together with this guy, spent a lot of time with him, and just made a bad choice 1000 miles from home. Then, once she was in it, could not make it stop. But I have to deal with knowing she would call me from her hotel, with me sitting on the sofa at home with our kids, and then spend the night with this *******. At least five trips of a 4-5 day duration. Then, in between the trips they would stay late after work hours in the office and do it- then she would come home and kiss me on the lips and sit down and eat the supper I cooked and ***** about how bad her day was. The affair started before I lost my job. It wasnt like she became dissatisfied and went off the deep end after I became unemployed.
> 
> After D-day, I was just a mess- like a puddle on the floor- if I'd had a job then, I probably would have lost it. Was all I could do to take care of necessities. I lay awake at night just wide awake with my heart ripping out, and she lay beside me sleeping like a puppy. When the Dr. prescribed me some AD medicine, her response was "do you really think you need that"? Like I was faking it or something. She must exist in a different reality than I do. Gone is the woman I married. This entity I live with now is cold, hard, and mean.
> 
> I told her on D-day that she was going to have to quit her job. Her response? "OK, I'll quit, just as soon as you get a job that will support us so I can look for something else". The truth is, I had about as good a job as I'll ever get in this area we live in. I had worked my way into a good spot after 18 years and was making good money. I always made the most money since we met. This guy she was banging is young, single, lives modestly, and makes approximately twice what I did. No job I'm gonna get is gonna trump that. I'm 9 years older than my wife, and this ******* is 5 years younger. I probably can't compete with that either. I'm not overweight, but I have lost 15 lbs on the infidelity diet, and have been exercising, taking care of myself and eating better. I'm in better shape now than anytime in the last 10 years. But she's taken the best from me and turned me into a damn mess.


So she was unabashedly remorseless even on d-day? You aren't in R, you are treading water until one of you has had enough.


----------



## G.J.

Chaparral said:


> Didnt you originally say *they used the office for sex?*
> 
> *Cutting a husband off is so a cheating wife* can be loyal to her lover.
> 
> *Starting arguements* is to relieve the cheating spouse of guilt.
> 
> *Same for insisting you get a job *as a reason to be a bit!ch.
> 
> *Refusing to do anything around the house and b!tching* about how you do it is more gaslighting.
> 
> 
> Im not saying shes cheating but i know she is. Her actions should have gotten her thrown out since shes already proven shes a cheater on top of that.


If she isn't still in the affair I will be amazed

You need to do anything and everything to find the truth
*Tell her to quit her job *(which she should have done immediately no matter how hard you found things for a couple of years) SHE WONT AS SHE IS STILL SEEING HIM more than likely as its her fantasy oh sorry it was fact

I would file for D as she isn't into you and expose to everyone as she is just using you as a fall back, hoping all the while POS will want more than sex from her....soon as he does you will be toast
Her mind set is with him


----------



## destroyd

She gave me several greeting cards over the course of a few weeks, answered my questions what I believe was honestly, vowed that she ****ed up and would spend the rest of her life fixing it. When I mentioned counseling, she balked. When I mentioned her quitting her job, she said she would if I got a job and made that possible. I asked her to write a no contact email and send it, she ignored that request. I told her no contact outside of work with OM, she continues to talk to him ocasionally outside of work hrs and says it is strictly business. I asked her to let me know by text anytime she was around him, she has broken that a few times and was caught only because I asked who was she with (this is in the office with others present). She has quit traveling with him altogether. She does not work late, and if she does, we leave the phone on so I can hear what's going on. 

There's a lot she does, but there's a lot she will not do. That's a far cry from what she promised me- that she would do whatever I needed her to do. 

Yes, I should have done things much differently. It's one of those things you don't think about much until you wake up and find yourself eating a **** sandwich.


----------



## kristin2349

Well you might wake up and get served a sh!t sandwich BUT you don't have to eat it!!!

She is not remorseful. Again, sorry you find yourself here. We have been there. My 20+ year marriage is done because he cheated, served up the sh!t sandwich and I passed.


----------



## G.J.

destroyd said:


> She gave me several greeting cards over the course of a few weeks, answered my questions what I believe was honestly, vowed that she ****ed up and would spend the rest of her life fixing it.
> 
> *read a lot of posts on hear what wife's do to calm things down for the short time (same as what you have posted here)*
> 
> When I mentioned counseling, she balked.
> 
> *Why ? too many questions. maybe being tripped up etc*
> 
> When I mentioned her quitting her job, she said she would if I got a job and made that possible.
> 
> *The goal post would have changed to "well now you have a job its been months so what's the point we don't talk only about business etc"*
> 
> I asked her to write a no contact email and send it, she ignored that request.
> 
> *How could she do that he might think she was serious*
> 
> I told her no contact outside of work with OM, she continues to talk to him ocasionally outside of work hrs and says it is strictly business.
> 
> *Oh come on read what you typed and tell me it doesn't seem a little naive*
> 
> I asked her to let me know by text anytime she was around him, she has broken that a few times and was caught only because I asked who was she with (this is in the office with others present).
> 
> *She only tells you when cornered...its still going on i.m.o.
> Ridicules she even sees him and is at the place of work*
> 
> She has quit traveling with him altogether. She does not work late, and if she does, we leave the phone on so I can hear what's going on.
> 
> *They had sex at work you said before....erm what's changed...only the choices of venue*
> 
> There's a lot she does, but there's a lot she will not do. That's a far cry from what she promised me- that she would do whatever I needed her to do.
> *
> You are the fall back *
> 
> Yes, I should have done things much differently. It's one of those things you don't think about much until you wake up and find yourself eating a **** sandwich.


----------



## G.J.

Work related affairs are very hard to crack and now it has possibly gone underground...well doubly hard

Hanging around outside car park to see if they sneak off during work hours would be an idea in between looking for a job

Gps her car only trouble if they go in his and of course we all know its naughty/illegal to do it to some ones else's vehicle

Var in her car to catch conversations on phone 

There are a lot of pro active things you can do to make sure you are right and I am wrong if your carrying on with your wife


----------



## ThePheonix

Destroyed my man, you asked for "thought", you've got them, and they are right on target. I'm on the same page as Bandit, Chappy, Matt, et al. A couple of things in your post I want to elaborate on. 
First, I believe the reason you don't have a job is because you want to stay close and bird dog your wife. You likely fear if you took a job out of town, she'll be carte blanche back in the saddle with this guy so fast it would make your head swim.
(I'd bet they still do a lot inter-office meetings)
Second, she's keeping you around for maid service. When she gets her MBA, she's going to jettison you. You're going to be out on the street with no job and your hat in your hand. Be thankful you're family got the timber land. You'll need those resources. 
You've got land, rental property, and inheritance. Try being in a situation that some guys here are in with little more than the change in their pocket. You need get off feeling sorry for your situation and deal with job and, my guess, future ex wife.


----------



## OldWolf57

D, of all the replies, I think Chap hit the nail on the head.

Also, you said it plainly, the woman you married is gone. So here's what you are not seeing. She KILLED your marriage.
This marriage cannot be rebuilt. You have to build a new one.

As for my thinking on this. D her as. 
As sure as God made little green apples, she is screwing him again.
All the job talk is just noise because they are laughing at you not getting any, and getting *****ed at for not cleaning the toilet.
How do I know? She was screwing him before you lost your job, and you have made double this year. 
I worked when I wanted when I was able, and never had a woman worry. I made it legal, and well.
People would be surprised at how easy it is to make damn good money with a lil short term hard work, or hardly any work at all.

Now that we have settled that, let's do you.
DON"T get a job !!!!! Can't stress this enough. Do, get a VAR and record her abusing you.
You say you taking meds, so you already have documented proof of what her affair has done to you.
What you are going to do now is go stealth and nuke her, him, and the company.
You find you the meanest D lawyer in your area or outside it. You ask him for the name of a VICIOUS PERSONAL INJURY lawyer, and you hit the the nuke button after documenting.

She knows you won't leave the area, and she knows you won't be finding work soon. BUT, if money was her real concern, you bringing in double should have quieted that. No, it's not money. It's her and his power trip.
Do you REALLY think they have not noticed your weak response?? She has told him of your meds. She has told him of you falling apart. The double income you bought in may have worried them, so she ramped up the home attacks to keep you off balance.
Listening if working late ?? How much can you really hear if he giving her one and the phone is across the damn room???

Your weak response to quitting, the NC letter, not exposing, MC, taking verbal abuse, and NOW being cut off, solidified your status in their eyes.
It's things like that that's getting there motor revving now man. They think they really got you over a barrel.

It's a damn good thing you got us man. 
Some will say, bringing in money is not a job, I say bit#ches be crazy LOL. I was self/employed most of my life.
I say this is to the point that after she gets that masters, she will have you letting her travel again.

You can take me serious, or just keep using the kids as an excuse, but your wife is grooming you for the **** life dude.
What gives me a lil hope in you is the statement you made of being about at "NOT GIVING A DAMN".
The thing is, you don't have to let the chips fall where they may.
You file civil suits against her, him and the damn company. The media threat still works my man.
So lawyer up now.


----------



## just got it 55

destroyd said:


> The truth of it is, I know that just about all I can do is just take steps to get out of this insanity. Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up their contented world. My wife and I operate well together. When we are getting along it is truly truly good. We do not let the kids witness any of our troubles.
> 
> She says the affair was just a fantasy- she was thrown together with this guy, spent a lot of time with him, and just made a bad choice 1000 miles from home. Then, once she was in it, could not make it stop. But I have to deal with knowing she would call me from her hotel, with me sitting on the sofa at home with our kids, and then spend the night with this *******. At least five trips of a 4-5 day duration. Then, in between the trips they would stay late after work hours in the office and do it- then she would come home and kiss me on the lips and sit down and eat the supper I cooked and ***** about how bad her day was. The affair started before I lost my job. It wasnt like she became dissatisfied and went off the deep end after I became unemployed.
> 
> After D-day, I was just a mess- like a puddle on the floor- if I'd had a job then, I probably would have lost it. Was all I could do to take care of necessities. I lay awake at night just wide awake with my heart ripping out, and she lay beside me sleeping like a puppy. When the Dr. prescribed me some AD medicine, her response was "do you really think you need that"? Like I was faking it or something. She must exist in a different reality than I do. Gone is the woman I married. This entity I live with now is cold, hard, and mean.
> 
> *I told her on D-day that she was going to have to quit her job. Her response? "OK, I'll quit, just as soon as you get a job that will support us so I can look for something else".* The truth is, I had about as good a job as I'll ever get in this area we live in. I had worked my way into a good spot after 18 years and was making good money. I always made the most money since we met. This guy she was banging is young, single, lives modestly, and makes approximately twice what I did. No job I'm gonna get is gonna trump that. I'm 9 years older than my wife, and this ******* is 5 years younger. I probably can't compete with that either. I'm not overweight, but I have lost 15 lbs on the infidelity diet, and have been exercising, taking care of myself and eating better. I'm in better shape now than anytime in the last 10 years. But she's taken the best from me and turned me into a damn mess.


She thinks she has you by the [email protected]

Frankly so do I

Sorry OP

Take them back

55


----------



## tom67

File and serve her AT WORK.:wink2:


----------



## GusPolinski

destroyd said:


> She gave me several greeting cards over the course of a few weeks, answered my questions what I believe was honestly, vowed that she ****ed up and would spend the rest of her life fixing it. When I mentioned counseling, she balked. When I mentioned her quitting her job, she said she would if I got a job and made that possible. I asked her to write a no contact email and send it, she ignored that request. I told her no contact outside of work with OM, she continues to talk to him ocasionally outside of work hrs and says it is strictly business. I asked her to let me know by text anytime she was around him, she has broken that a few times and was caught only because I asked who was she with (this is in the office with others present). She has quit traveling with him altogether. She does not work late, and if she does, we leave the phone on so I can hear what's going on.
> 
> There's a lot she does, but there's a lot she will not do. That's a far cry from what she promised me- that she would do whatever I needed her to do.
> 
> Yes, I should have done things much differently. It's one of those things you don't think about much until you wake up and find yourself eating a **** sandwich.





GusPolinski said:


> They're still f*cking.
> 
> Get a job and file for divorce.


Is the picture getting any clearer yet?


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> finally admitted to the affair, gave me details, complete transparency, does not travel with OM any more, does not work late, *does not spend any time alone with him* anymore.
> 
> But, since I am out of work, and we must have her salary to survive, she still works at the same job.
> 
> I did not expose the affair *to our families* or her workplace, *as we need her job and insurance*.


This is where I stopped reading. 

No betrayed husband refrains from telling his wife's family SO SHE CAN KEEP HER JOB.

To keep her from getting pissed off at him and choosing OM? Sure.

But to save her job? 

Nope.

You're just another chicken husband with a strong wife who's afraid she will dump you.


----------



## bandit.45

Turnera stop mincing words and tell us what you really mean.


----------



## Sports Fan

I would bet my bottom dollar she is sleeping with him again. Your weak response the first time round has got you here.

Time to do a 180 on her. Buy a VAR and strap it under her car seat.

Visit a Good Divorce Lawyer and file for custody, and ailomony child support. You being unemployed should work wonders for you with Child Support.

You harden up and play hard ball. Expose to her family, workplace, friends etc. 

Why you would want to reconcile with her is your choice but if Reconciliation is your true goal than your missus must be fully aware that you are prepared to destroy her cosy little world and will no longer tolerate her garbage.

At present she is laughing at you. Deep down you know it has nothing to do with you getting a job and everything to do that she has suffered no consquences the first time round.

Sorry you are going through this.


----------



## WorkingWife

Buddy400 said:


> ...As liberated as most women think they are, most still don't feel attracted to men that don't provide (monetarily)...


I think this is true.


----------



## WorkingWife

Due to her prior affair and current attitude, I think it's highly likely she's screwing *someone*. If so, you not having a job probably does bother her, but she may be focusing on it, making it out to be a bigger problem in her mind than it actually is, to justify her behavior.

IMO, Nothing justifies an affair. Ever. 

However... the lack of job really could be the issue, and it could be killing her romantic attraction to you.

Women often have a need for financial support from their husband. Even if they make money. * Working and providing financially is just part of what makes a man a man in a woman's eyes. *

The inheritance is a one time thing, and not something you "earned" so while yes that's helpful this year, it does nothing to ensure future financial security. If you purchased the timber land together that would not be something she would see as being provided by you. Also, how many years worth of timber are there? She may be worried about what happens when that runs out?

All the domestic things you are doing to keep the household running and help her mom are worth a lot of money and a hell of a lot of work, but they are not something she will assign a $ value to in her mind, and in fact, they may actually diminish her respect for you on some level. As someone else so crudely put it ...you're being her B!tch.

I think you both need new jobs: I think your wife should be looking for a job away from the other man! Like yesterday. I'm on your side in this scenario but your attitude of finding "the right job" that "your well suited for" would be very scary to a lot of women knowing that could take years plus the longer you are unemployed the harder it is to find work.


----------



## Dyokemm

Sounds like you are trying to 'nice' back a rugsweeping, unremorseful cheat.....knock that sh*t off....IT DOESN'T WORK.

And I agree with the other posters.....not exposing to family/friends has NOTHING to do with her job....it is your fear that she will leave you.

The fact is though, the way she is right now and the way you are floundering around in misery, that would actually be doing you a favor.

You are no where near saving your M on the path you are on, playing the stupid 'pick me' dance with a disgusting cheat.

And her cutting you off is almost certainly because this POS is back to screwing your WW...since you never gave him or her ANY reason to stop it.

Wake up or you will lose any chance of saving your M....you say you don't want your kids to lose their family....but the choices you are making right now are almost assuring that this will be the end result.

Wake up.


----------



## OldWolf57

Dude, I'm going to say this as plain as I know how.

The ONLY reason you are being put through this, she has lost all respect for you, and continued with the affair.

Dont let the noise from the other crap cloud you on this.
I KNOW bit#ches !!! And I don't care if they church every Sunday or gno every friday.
There is no evil a creature as a woman that has lost all respect for her dream man.
You, who was to be her foundation, is shown to have clay feet, and she don't accept that she could have been so wrong.
I really didn't want to take it to this level, but I see bs noise that I don't like.

You have 1 chance to gain back a little of that respect. You have to DESTROY this woman, and you been here long enough to know this.
What woman screws around, get caught, say she will do ANYTHING to keep the MARRIAGE, then turn around and try to destroy every fiber of your manhood by cutting you off, cutting you down, and continuing the affair.???
The kind that is so mad at you, and have lost ALL respect for you.

The only place I see she was truthful, is her saying she wants to keep the marriage.
So what you are going thru is just her training you to have it her way.
After all, she's got young studs making double what you made chasing her. She on her way career wise, and her plan to keep you as housekeeper and babysitter is working just fine.
Hell, she don't even have to pretend to be civil anymore, and she damn sure don't have to put out.

So listen to the noise if you want, and make all the excuses you need, if losing your core self is not as important as keeping a skank.


----------



## OldWolf57

You say your family would run her out of town. Well please PM me their contact so I can be the one to help save you.
Cause from your join date to now, you are progressively losing to this sl#t and her stud.


----------



## aine

You are going against all the advice here about exposure, why?

Your wife has absolutely no respect for you, a woman will not change her behavior for any man she has no respect for and I wonder why. 
You need to put on your 'big man pants' and take control of this situation by following the advice here:

1. interrupt the affair - she is still engaged in it, don't listen to a word or promise coming from her mouth
2. by exposing to all who will listen, family, friends, work, etc - let the chips fall where they may, she needs to feel the consequences
3. get a job and get someone to help with the house chores
4. do the 180 on her and go dark, take care of kids and yourself


----------



## cgiles

Read this book, follow its exercices.

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

You should get "Married man sex life primer 2011" by Athol Kay. You can find it over internet easily.

"When I say No, I feel guilty" by manuel J. Smith can be useful for you too, and if you missed them :

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## destroyd

Thanks for the replies. I'm monitoring her very closely. If she's still in it, then they are reduced to chatting in the office at work. Yes, they were able to be intimate at the office- but that was after everyone else had gone home and she and him stayed late. She doesn't stay late like that now. The once or twice she has, it has not been long and we were in touch. If she has a burner phone, she doesn't use it in the car, and it never comes home with her. Trust me, I have read this and several other forums since I first started suspecting problems. I am familiar with tech as I am experienced in electronics and computers. I am on top of most anything she could get away with. I'm not saying I KNOW 100% she's not doing anything- but I have not caught her doing anything except taking a few calls outside of work hours which some I know were business because I was there & heard them. I cannot realistically expect her to carry out her job and have zero contact with him. 

She doesn't go anywhere, or do anything outside of going to work where she could ever come in contact with him. They were able to do what they did because I allowed her to travel alone with another man & trusted her completely and was totally unsuspecting. I imagine It got real for OM when I busted her with texts that could blow him out of the water. He knows I have the evidence and could sink his ass.

I am very aware that I have not done what the forums advise in this matter. There is never an excuse for cheating. I firmly believe that, and I do not take blame for her bad decisions. I laid the blame totally on her for betraying me and she took it and awknowledged it. However, I do take blame for some of our problems that made it possible for this to happen. 

My problem stems from her attitude, which is very much passive aggressive and resentful towards me. There are things that happened in our marriage over the years that affected the way she feels about me. I felt she was wrong to feel the way she did, and ran roughshod over her feelings for years on end and did cause her a lot of hurt. Her anger and resentment, whether justified or not, was what allowed her to fall and do what she did. What I have come to realize is that whether she was right or wrong about the things previously in our marriage, her feelings mattered to her- and I ignored them. However, I didn't deserve to be cheated on. Under those circumstances expecting total and complete submission from her, while ideal, is not the way the world works. It is realistic to expect her to end the affair, and it stay ended. That's non-negotiable. She is totally aware of that. 

As long as I feel she is not still cheating, I feel like it is worth it to try and work through some of our problems and see where it goes. If I find she is still a in it, in any way, its straight out nuclear fusion time. Until then, I'm still working with her. I mainly wanted input on my job situation, and her feelings towards it as it relates to me. I know the feelings women in general have for SAHD husbands and never intended to find myself in that situation- I knew going into it that it was not a good thing- but it seemed right for me and our family at the time. If I had found a job, I don't believe she would be pulling back away from me. The problem is since we came into some money, it made it not mandatory that I find a job quickly. It has been too long now, and she's lost faith in me. That is my fault, and she cant help the way she feels regarding it. This is not something I can fix quickly. I can't just run out and "get a job". I can however lower my expectations on finding a great job, and take what I can.

I have read those books, by the way. I dont totally agree with everything in them, but they have opened my eyes to some things I never considered and I'm implementing some of the advice from them.


----------



## convert

Destroyd, when you found out did you expose to anyone?

I see a lot of cases where exposure is not done or not done enough and it really promotes rug sweeping and makes it too easy for the affair to start back up.


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## RWB

D,

Dirty little secret in marriage... The Balance of Power.

When it shifts far to the Left, everything else in a marriage shifts with it... Attitude, Sex, Arguments, Privacy, Entitlement, just about every aspect of the union. 

The scales have shifted 99 to 1 in your wife's favor. It fairly apparent in her mind, she is peaking and she feels you are in steep decline. She is younger, more educated, moving up, desired... All indifference to her affair. Which by the way she has justified as acceptable in her own mind. She feels you want/need her much more than she requires. 

Bottom Line... D, you are being played. You are just a place holder, Plan B. 

Whether R or D, get a job, put your foot down, and find out for real if you marriage is worth it. Do not attempt this "forever confrontation" from a Balance of Power so heavily shifted.


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## destroyd

When I first found out, I thought it was completely emotional and just a friendship that had crossed the line, I was caught so off guard that I just didn't know what to do. Then I found out it was physical and she was such a wreck and so devastated that I just didn't expose. I felt like possibly getting her fired from her job was mean and vindictive. I should have done it then. I know that now. Now, 11 months out from D-day, with no hard evidence the affair continues since D-day, I can't justify exposure unless I catch her up to something. Now, she would definitely see it as an act of revenge if she truly has quit the affair.


----------



## convert

RWB said:


> D,
> 
> *Dirty little secret in marriage... The Balance of Power.
> 
> When it shifts far to the Left, everything else in a marriage shifts with it... Attitude, Sex, Arguments, Privacy, Entitlement, just about every aspect of the union. *
> 
> The scales have shifted 99 to 1 in your wife's favor. It fairly apparent in her mind, she is peaking and she feels you are in steep decline. She is younger, more educated, moving up, desired... All indifference to her affair. Which by the way she has justified as acceptable in her own mind. She feels you want/need her much more than she requires.
> 
> Bottom Line... D, you are being played. You are just a place holder, Plan B.
> 
> Whether R or D, get a job, put your foot down, and find out for real if you marriage is worth it. Do not attempt this "forever confrontation" from a Balance of Power so heavily shifted.


Yep, That is one of the many reason exposure is so so so important as close to day as possible.


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## convert

D, keep in mind the inheritance in some states is not considered marital assets and is not split in divorce and possibly even the Timber money if the timber was acquired before the marriage.

at least consult with an attorney so you know your rights.

being a SAHD you may get alimony and child support


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## Blacksmith01

destroyd said:


> The truth of it is, I know that just about all I can do is just take steps to get out of this insanity. Then I look at my healthy, happy kids, and I cannot bear to break up their contented world. .


Here is the rub. You are not the one laying waste to their world. Your Cheating wife did that months ago. Never take the blame for another persons actions. Never!


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## turnera

destroyd said:


> I found out it was physical and she was such a wreck and so devastated that I just didn't expose. I felt like possibly getting her fired from her job was mean and vindictive. I should have done it then. I know that now. Now, 11 months out from D-day, with no hard evidence the affair continues since D-day, I can't justify exposure unless I catch her up to something. Now, she would definitely see it as an act of revenge if she truly has quit the affair.


Well, she's not a wreck NOW, is she? Because you acted like a scared man afraid to lose his wife so she instantly turned from devastated to disgusted.

And why CAN'T you just go out and get a job? When my H lost his job, he went out and took crap jobs just to help pay the bills. SOMEthing! You should be spending 8 hours a day doing SOMEthing to bring in income, whether it's sending out resumes, 8 hours of computer training or class training, buying and selling stuff for a profit, walking dogs, I don't care. Just DO something.

And now, 11 months out, sure don't expose IF she is following through with what you SHOULD have demanded 11 months ago - total transparency, access to her electronics, spot checks, consistent therapy, and WORKING on the marriage. If she's not doing these things, do what you should have done then - tell her that you're not satisfied with the progress of the marriage and you need to consider whether it should be continued. That you DON'T like her attitude and, frankly, you can do better. Ask her to explain to you why she thinks you should stay married because, honestly, you're pretty miserable after what she did. Take back your side of the marriage.


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## destroyd

Well, she is peaking. No doubt about it. I was positioned very well in my career also and made more money than her until the company was bought out and took a turn for the worst. Her company restructured also, but she ended up with a new boss who had the hots for her and her career took off and she was promoted. Things went badly for me, and I failed to rise to the challenge of finding another good job. It's not like I haven't tried to.


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## badmemory

destroyd said:


> Under those circumstances expecting total and complete submission from her, while ideal,* is not the way the world works.* It is realistic to expect her to end the affair, and it stay ended.


Okay, you asked for our thoughts.

Expecting a reasonable amount of contrition and remorse does not equate to her being completely submissive. Even if she is not continuing to cheat with the OM, a big IF; her lack of remorse and your fear of divorce has led you to where you are - a false R. Unfortunately for you; that *is* the way the world works.

You've convinced yourself that she's no longer cheating and that's good enough. We're telling you that's *not* good enough; and at some point you will realize this.


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## Blacksmith01

destroyd said:


> Well, she is peaking. No doubt about it. I was positioned very well in my career also and made more money than her until the company was bought out and took a turn for the worst. Her company restructured also, but she ended up with a new boss who had the hots for her and her career took off and she was promoted. Things went badly for me, and I failed to rise to the challenge of finding another good job. It's not like I haven't tried to.


You need to quit feeling sorry for yourself. I mean like right now. Start doing things that you like to do that do NOT involve her. It would be a good thing if you could include the kids in it too. Go pitch black on her while you do it. Start living your life for you. Don't do this halfazz go balls to the wall. Let her come home to an empty house while you and the kids are off having fun. Better yet better yet just matter of factly let her know that tomorrow she needs to take care of the kids as you have plans for the next few days. Wake up before her and head out. I don't care what you do. Go on a road trip. Go fishing. Just pack your kit and leave her holding the bag for a day or so. The key is that once you tell her that you are heading out don't talk about it any more. It is not up for discussion. You do not need her consent. Then go have fun and do something that you have always wanted to do. Start acting like you have a pair and take back control of you and your family. Not her. Also don't put up with her bs about not having a job. You are still bringing in money. 

If she still wants to act all uppity take all your money out of the bank and get a place of your own and take the kids with you. let her come home to an empty house with D papers on the table. You are a man Start acting like it.


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## jb02157

I think she's using your supposed not looking for a job as an exuse to gt out of the marriage. My wife actied simialrly to me when I lost my job years back and we had to move. She not supporting you the way she should while you try to find a job. My wife did the same, made cracks about being married to a bum. I know how much that hurts. Maybe it might be best for you to just let her go.


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## alte Dame

People are not just playing the odds when they say that she is probably still in her A.

We are all reading what you are writing about her behavior and noting that she is behaving the way an unfaithful wife behaves. There is consistency and commonality to this behavior. This is why so many of us are sure that the A is continuing.

The BS's are always sure that there isn't any time they could cheat, or there is no opportunity, but, believe me, the cheaters always (always!) manage it. Your WW could be rendezvousing with her OM in the john at work, or in a car or park at lunch. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Independent of her opportunity, however, her behavior toward you indicates that she is still in her A.

No matter what, I think you need to wake up. Either you stiffen your spine, truly bust the affair & give her consequences, or you find a new, great job somewhere else and have her served.

In either case, you absolutely need to shed your fear. It is driving you to make decisions that virtually assure your misery.


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## TRy

destroyd said:


> Well, she is peaking. No doubt about it. I was positioned very well in my career also and made more money than her until the company was bought out and took a turn for the worst. Her company restructured also, but she ended up with a new boss who had the hots for her and her career took off and she was promoted. Things went badly for me, and I failed to rise to the challenge of finding another good job. It's not like I haven't tried to.


 So as long as you make more money than her she will not cheat on you, but if she makes more money than you (never mind your inheritance and lumber money) she gets to have sex with other men? Does that mean that when you made more money than her that you had the green light to cheat? Do you see how silly she sounds? She is a cheater that was looking for a reason to blame you for her cheating. If you had not lost your job and continued to make more money than her, she would have said that she cheated because you were so focused on work that you did not give her enough attention. 

With the inheritance and lumber money I call bull to her saying that you have not held up your end of the marriage. Only a cheater would see it that way.


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## happy as a clam

The fact that she's constantly hoofing it on the treadmill and trying to lose weight is a HUGE red flag.

Who is she interested in losing all this weight for?


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## turnera

badmemory said:


> Okay, you asked for our thoughts.
> 
> Expecting a reasonable amount of contrition and remorse does not equate to her being completely submissive.


You are misreading if you think we are telling you she has to become submissive to you.

We are telling you she has to be REMORSEFUL to you. And WILLING to MAKE UP for what she did to you.

Big difference.

The thing is, you have to be willing to LEAVE her if she doesn't want to do the things you NEED to feel safe in your marriage after her betrayal. She has to SEE that you can take her or leave her, depending on HER actions. She doesn't wanna hand over her electronics for you to check so you can assure yourself that she's no longer cheater? Fine. Don't. You'll make plans to move out. TOTALLY her choice. No submission involved - only acceptance that she hurt you and owes you something.

See how that works?


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## OldWolf57

TRy, the A started before he lost his job. He was still working but they was having problems. Translation-hot new younger boss and being able to travel with him.

Ok D, you say you on top of this, I bow to your boots on the ground.
Heck, won't even say I told you so.

I just remind you that you did ask for thoughts, and we giving it to you like we see it.

Good Luck and God bless.


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## destroyd

Hey, I totally appreciate all advice. 

I was just addressing the 'power balance' posts. I'm just saying when her affair started I still had my job, and was making more money than her. That is exactly what she did, was try to blame me for lack of attention. I was dealing with a terminally ill parent for several years, we were percolating in debt, my job was up in the air for several years as the company struggled with round after round of layoffs. Yes, I was focused on other things. Yes, I expected her to understand, and BE THERE for me. Instead, she found new young affluent bossman who had the hots for her to be more interesting. If I hadn't lost my job, and had time to look around me at what was going on I probably would not have become suspicious and checked her texts. Yes, there were problems in the marriage before the cheating. The problem was dealing with real life and her inability to communicate. 
Sure she probably gets along with OM pretty well- she's never done anything to him to make him mad. I took those excuses of hers, rolled em' up, and shoved them up her ass after D-day. 

The running and treadmilling. The treadmilling has been a yearly thing for her as she fights age coming on, and the propensity of women in her family to be overweight. She was athletic when younger, and she has expressed the desire for years to become fit enough to run in like 5k runs and such. Interestingly enough, the year she was in the affair, she did not treadmill at all. She had gained more weight while in the affair than in the last few years combined. So, that red flag was not seen at all. She got serious about it this year, about the same time of year she always does. She has really stuck with it this time and we have both run in some races this year as a family. She is treating it as a hobby, and we have been doing it together. She is more serious with it than I am however. Is it a red flag now? I don't know. The doctor put her on high blood pressure medicine, and I think she may have gotten a wake up call from Dr. on her family history and the need to exercise and manage her weight. So I just don't know. I don't think it's for OM's benefit because she was heavier than she ever had been when he was chasing her. Hes a heavier kind of guy himself, so she wouldn't need to do that to keep his attention. After considering it pretty hard, I think she's just trying to better herself and relieve stress. I'm in better shape than I have been in many years too. One thing, she saw me lose a bunch of weight in a hurry on the infidelity diet plan.


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## ArmyofJuan

You are in trouble buddy, don't be shocked if she leaves you the second she gets her MBA.

She is no more happy about her marriage situation than you are but instead of fixing it I'm guessing she is planning her exit strategy, hell she may even run off with the OM (they can easily continue the A at work without you finding out).

You need to get your affairs in order because whether you like it or not I see a D in your future.


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## Chaparral

Getbthe vars and e pen var for her purse. The only thing you have to lose is insecurity.


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## G.J.

Being in the 'Fog' should be the WW...... not you


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## destroyd

Ouch- damn that's harsh. Yes, that's what I have had in the back of my mind this whole time. Adds up to her getting her degree, and wanting to put some time between the affair and her leaving. Really makes me think she was already planning her exit from the marriage and two things happened- I actually lost my job, and she got busted before she was ready to leave. She probably intended to pop up with a miracle romance with OM after a suitable amount of time. They were already having to hide it from all the other coworkers. With me having some evidence, and holding it up over her and OM's jobs, she had to back off and try R. Now she thinks she can show her ass again because I did not expose and I have not found a job.


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## bandit.45

destroyd said:


> Ouch- damn that's harsh. Yes, that's what I have had in the back of my mind this whole time. Adds up to her getting her degree, and wanting to put some time between the affair and her leaving. Really makes me think she was already planning her exit from the marriage and two things happened- I actually lost my job, and she got busted before she was ready to leave. She probably intended to pop up with a miracle romance with OM after a suitable amount of time. They were already having to hide it from all the other coworkers. With me having some evidence, and holding it up over her and OM's jobs, she had to back off and try R. Now she thinks she can show her ass again because I did not expose and I have not found a job.


Now.....

You are beginning to use your head. 

It is time you take those rose colored love-goggles off and see her for the conniving person she really is. We do.


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## Marduk

Here's the deal, dude.

You f'd up big time in becoming a 'puddle' and then you stayed a 'puddle' to be walked over by trading your wife's fidelity for money by accepting an R but having her stay in contact with this chump.

Here's what's going down. If they're not bumping uglies, then they are certainly commiserating about it, and have spent months rationalizing the affair. And you're seeing the outcome of her no longer feeling guilty about it.

Here's what I think you should do.

I think it starts with realizing that your wife left you long ago, and just still happens to be sharing your bed. 

You need to talk to a lawyer. Sort yourself out. And then you need to leave. Get a job (talk to the lawyer first) but then yes -- any old job. To support yourself and your kids.

If she comes begging for you to take her back and she offers a TRUE reconciliation, maybe you can make a go of it.

But I doubt it. She'll go back to having sex with mr MBA until he gets bored of her, and dumps her. And then she'll go through a crisis... one that you don't really want to be around to pick the pieces up of. Because if you do, she'll just do it again.

This is a road she needs to walk alone.

And you need to get your head on straight.


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## Chaparral

If she were remorseful and interested in you, she would not have cut you off. Not having a job is the worst excuse I've seen here yet used by a cheating wife to cut her husband off. That one red flag is enough to go into full detective mode. Almost every woman that has ut her husband off has stayed in the affair to be loyal to their affair partner. A few, that actually are just in it for thrills, will actually increase sex with their husbands. Thats why we always ask if a spouse that suspects cheating if their sex life has changed.

Another possibility is that she is trying to lure him back with weight reduction.

Where do the people where she works eat their lunch? How long is their breaks.

Ade you tracking her phone with "find my phone?"


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## destroyd

There's a group of five that eat lunch together regularly.


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## turnera

How are you verifying that?


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## destroyd

Everyone, that's what brought me here to ask- she has cut me off, and I'm trying to make it make sense. Somethings happened, and I don't know for sure what.


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## OldWolf57

I see you really do have a handle and is ready to jet her butt, after reading post #78.
So a little VAR plant should be interesting.


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## Chaparral

destroyd said:


> There's a group of five that eat lunch together regularly.


Whos in the group? How do you know? Where do they eat? How do you know?


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## destroyd

I don't have 100% on the lunches- she tells me when, where, and with who every day. The times I have verified, she has been truthful. That's a hole I can't plug 100%.


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## turnera

destroyd said:


> Everyone, that's what brought me here to ask- she has cut me off, and I'm trying to make it make sense. Somethings happened, and I don't know for sure what.


We already told you what.

Women have to RESPECT their man to be able to DESIRE him.

She doesn't respect you because you LET HER CHEAT without filing for divorce.

Period.

If she saw you LEAVING her for what she did, suddenly YOU would look good again.

But since you proved you're a doormat, you instantly turned into what she DOESN'T want.

Women want men they have to fight for, men who TAKE what they want, men who take their breath away. This is basic psychology, it's in nearly all of us, and it works out the same way every time. Goes back to caveman days - women crave strong men, who protect them (physically, financially).

You've shown her the exact opposite. So nobody but you is surprised she dismissed you.


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## turnera

destroyd said:


> I don't have 100% on the lunches- *she tells me* when, where, and with who every day. The times I have verified, she has been truthful. That's a hole I can't plug 100%.


:rofl:


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## Chaparral

destroyd said:


> I don't have 100% on the lunches- she tells me when, where, and with who every day. The times I have verified, she has been truthful. That's a hole I can't plug 100%.


Like you said, somethings happened, somethings changed. Get the vars especially for her car. Cheaters love to talk in the car because of the privacy. She may also confide in someone else whats up.


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## happyman64

Destroyd


Listen to the gang. We are all very experienced when it comes to infidelity.

Get the VARs planted and find out what your wife is really thinking and planning.

Because from our view it dos not include you.

And if that comes to light don't get upset or mad.

Stay calm. Stay cool. And plan your own strategy so that you and your kids come out ahead.

Your wife does not respect you. Ad in the past your wife has proven to be a liar and a cheater.

So stop trusting her and trust yourself.

Did you ever make her get tested for STD's?

HM


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## turnera

The VAR under the seat of her car will tell you what she is REALLY doing.


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## badmemory

destroyd,

Honestly where is your anger? Do you not have any urge for the POSOM to regret f**king *YOUR* wife; for not giving a rat's ass about destroying your marriage?

There's another reason she needs to quit her job besides keeping them apart. So you can go full throttle on making his life miserable - when she's away from company crossfire.


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## Marduk

destroyd said:


> Everyone, that's what brought me here to ask- she has cut me off, and I'm trying to make it make sense. Somethings happened, and I don't know for sure what.


You know what's happened. 

She's detached and you're in a false reconciliation. 

Everything else is details.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vulcan2013

destroyd said:


> Everyone, that's what brought me here to ask- she has cut me off, and I'm trying to make it make sense. Somethings happened, and I don't know for sure what.


She's being faithful to someone else. Even if she's not currently in a PA. Sorry.


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## scatty

If you want to save your marriage she has to quit her job and take a job where travel isn't required. With your non action, hands-off approach to this, she knows she can do whatever she wants. Giving you greeting cards to make it up to you? You're kidding, I hope.

If you are hell bent on saving the marriage, get a VAR, GPS, no travel for her, MC, IC, marriage retreat, spyware on phone, shut her off from social media, and live like a warden in a prison for months or years before you can (somewhat) trust her.


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## WorkingWife

destroyd said:


> When I first found out, I thought it was completely emotional and just a friendship that had crossed the line, I was caught so off guard that I just didn't know what to do. Then I found out it was physical and she was such a wreck and so devastated that I just didn't expose. I felt like possibly getting her fired from her job was mean and vindictive. I should have done it then. I know that now. Now, 11 months out from D-day, with no hard evidence the affair continues since D-day, I can't justify exposure unless I catch her up to something. Now, she would definitely see it as an act of revenge if she truly has quit the affair.


Have you read "Surviving an Affair" by Willard Harley? I would read that book and insist that she follow its guidelines to restoring trust because it will not "punish" her, but it also will not let her off the hook where the affair can be repeated.

Other books by him that are great and will help with the resentment she has toward you for your past behavior are Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. But the first thing is to deal with the affair properly or you probably can't restore the balance in your marriage.

It really does sound like something is going on with her, if not a physical affair then maybe an emotional affair using a work email account or burner phone...

Regarding you and Work -- Have you looked outside your area? Remote work is gaining popularity. Maybe contracting or subcontracting? If you can get steady income coming in you are in a better position to tell her to find another job too. Your marriage is in danger every day that she goes to work with her former (or current) screw buddy. If for no reason other than the fact that her husband is putting up with that.


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## destroyd

Thanks everyone. It's a messed up situation for sure. We got a lot going on right now. Vacation coming up, wedding to go to. 

Don't get me wrong everyone. She's got a lot of stress on her. When I say she's cut me off, I don't mean like fighting about it, and her declaring it. More like "I'm just not in the mood". We have gone long periods in the past when things have not been right between us. While there's a good chance its true, knowing my particular wife, it does not certainly mean she's back to the affair. When the affair was on, and I didnt know, she was screwing me too. Enthusiastically.


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## destroyd

How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


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## Marduk

destroyd said:


> Thanks everyone. It's a messed up situation for sure. We got a lot going on right now. Vacation coming up, wedding to go to.


Why would you be going on vacation together?

At least get separate hotel rooms. Share the kids.

Don't discuss this. Declare it.



> Don't get me wrong everyone. She's got a lot of stress on her. When I say she's cut me off, I don't mean like fighting about it, and her declaring it. More like "I'm just not in the mood". We have gone long periods in the past when things have not been right between us. While there's a good chance its true, knowing my particular wife, it does not certainly mean she's back to the affair. When the affair was on, and I didnt know, she was screwing me too. Enthusiastically.


The problem isn't the affair or the other guy. That is the symptom of the problem.

Instead of dealing with the symptom, you allowed her to go back to the lion's den. Keeping in contact with the affair partner is verboten for a reason.

You folded. Accept that, and accept the reasons why she had the affair, and accept what you letting her still be in contact with him have done.

It doesn't matter any more if she's still having a PA.

You are in a false reconciliation that you have allowed. 

The only person you can control is you, and it's time you start acting from a place of reason instead of fear.


----------



## Blacksmith01

destroyd said:


> How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


Don't tell him or her anything. JUST DO IT!


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## happy as a clam

Woman here. I think you should have DEFINITELY confronted him. Told his sorry azz to leave your wife alone. And let him know that you have ALL the texts and emails between them, so his career is in jeopardy. Basically, make him sweat bullets wondering when you are going to blow the lid off their sordid affair.


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## Marduk

destroyd said:


> How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


Fear, fear, fear...

You're afraid of him. And coming up with reasons why you won't confront him.

I sure as hell would have. And no way would I try to reconcile with her still working there with him.

It's OK if you don't confront him.

Just please confront your fear about this situation. 

You can do this.


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## convert

D, you said the OM was single, How did you know this?

because if it was you ww I am not so sure I would believe this.

A lot of Wayward spouse say this to derail any exposure to the affair partner's significant other.


----------



## badmemory

destroyd said:


> How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


You don't threaten him or confront him at all. You don't tell him what you're going to do, you don't tell your wife, and you definitely don't use exposure to bargain with him to stay away from your wife. That is beyond weak.

You just exact payback where it hurts him the most; systematically, thoughtfully and surgically.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

Is he married, or would you be able to jeopardize him financially? If he isn't married, exposure seems kind of ridiculous to me. Employers, if they are making money, aren't going to care as much as we might hope they do.


----------



## ConanHub

Your marriage was dead 11 months ago.

Letting her continue to work with the guy that had been fvcking her for the better part of a year made damn sure your marriage stayed dead.

Marduk gave you some very good instructions.

I suggest you follow them. Dump this dead weight. You will get child support even for partial custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

destroyd said:


> Instead, she found new young affluent bossman who had the hots for her to be more interesting.


 If she is still working for the man that she had an affair with, then the affair is almost for sure still going on.


----------



## happyman64

destroyd said:


> How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


I would have made him fear not only for his life but also his livelihood.

And I would not have said a word to my wife.

I would have waited for her to come back all angry at me for going after her boss.

Then I would have held up my hand and said to her "If you are not careful, if you are not respectful and if you are not remorseful then you should be careful. Because you will be next.

Your wife has not had one consequence for her lies, cheating and damage to your marriage/family.

Sure she is under a lot of stress. That did not give her the right to have an affair.

And just remember Destroyd she went back for seconds and thirds.

While still doing you. 

You should really find out any way you can what is going through her mind. Start with a VAR and if you hear nothing then go to her parents. 

Before she ends up like them...

HM


----------



## badmemory

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> Is he married, or would you be able to jeopardize him financially? If he isn't married, exposure seems kind of ridiculous to me. Employers, if they are making money, aren't going to care as much as we might hope they do.


Were it me, I'd start doing some research on him personally, and the company he works for.


----------



## destroyd

I made finding out about him a priority. I probably know more about OM than she does. Seriously. Not kidding about that.


----------



## Chaparral

Whether she consciously realizes it or not, she is aware you picked keeping her job with her lover more important than your marriage. You basically rewarded them both and sat home, in her mind and reaped the rewards of her job. You let her stay near her lover. How do you think a love affair is going to stop with two horney people around each other all the time. You rationalization hamster must be worn out by now.


----------



## Nucking Futs

destroyd said:


> Thanks everyone. It's a messed up situation for sure. We got a lot going on right now. Vacation coming up, wedding to go to.
> 
> Don't get me wrong everyone. She's got a lot of stress on her. When I say she's cut me off, I don't mean like fighting about it, and her declaring it. More like "I'm just not in the mood". We have gone long periods in the past when things have not been right between us. While there's a good chance its true, knowing my particular wife, it does not certainly mean she's back to the affair. When the affair was on, and I didnt know, she was screwing me too. Enthusiastically.


----------



## kristin2349

destroyd said:


> I made finding out about him a priority. I probably know more about OM than she does. Seriously. Not kidding about that.



Well what good is that? You haven't done anything with it. This situation is a slow motion train wreck. We are all screaming at you to get off the tracks and you are not hearing it.


----------



## destroyd

Unlike the world I worked in, their business is not really about making money per se. More like a public institution. The fallout from them being discovered could be entire career ending severe. I could not care less about OM. **** him. But even though my wife destroyed me on several levels, I have not up to this point wanted to see her career ended.


----------



## Marduk

destroyd said:


> Unlike the world I worked in, their business is not really about making money per se. More like a public institution. The fallout from them being discovered could be entire career ending severe. I could not care less about OM. **** him. But even though my wife destroyed me on several levels, I have not up to this point wanted to see her career ended.


How sweet.

What do you think she cared about while sleeping with her boss?

And coming home and doing the same with you?

And now, not doing the same with you?


----------



## destroyd

I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


----------



## kristin2349

In most of corporate America affairs between co-workers especially when one is senior to another (especially if they are a direct report) are pretty much job loss/career ending.

I used that to my advantage to secure a great divorce settlement. It was not in my interest to expose and blow his job up when I was entitled to lifetime alimony and half of his pension. I let him keep his career and reputation there and took him to the cleaners. You should consider doing the same.


----------



## Marduk

destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


Walking away from a false reconciliation isn't going nuclear.

It's getting up off the ground and standing up for yourself.

Lawyer. Job. Place of your own.

Dust is settled, expose far and wide.


----------



## GusPolinski

destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


You're looking at this all wrong. It's not about what you can or can't find or prove, it's about what her attitude and stance is SHOWING YOU.

For as long as she refuses to cut contact w/ OM and get another job, you have to assume -- and REGARDLESS of what you can or can't prove -- that they're still involved. Period.

Additionally... well, I'll just say it: HOLY CRAP you need to man up.


----------



## kristin2349

destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?



Her attitude is wrong for any type of reconciliation. If you are OK living with a false R knowing that the other shoe is going to drop probably sooner rather than later, OK. There is really not much need to keep discussing things.

BUT if you don't even have a VAR in place you aren't monitoring her anywhere near close to 7 ways from Sunday, get real on that.


----------



## KanDo

Whenever I read one of these stories, i cringe. It is so difficult to listen to a BS who has no self-respect and is unwilling to take control of their own life. You have been given excellent advise already; but, I will reiterate a few points.

1) FILE FOR DIVORCE. You may not need to follow through, but you need to man up and show your wife that actions have consequences and that you are worthy of better.

2) If alimony is possible, I would not push too hard to find a job at this poin See what your attorney recommends

3) Initiate to full 180. No whining or pleading. 

4) Start working on yourself.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

It seems to me that your wife has lost respect for you some time ago.

It also seems to me that you, yourself, do not have that high of a level of respect, or regard for yourself, either.

Instead of spending all your time trying to figure your wife out, I think you'd be better served trying to figure YOU out.

From what I've read of your posts so far, it seems to me that she was well on her way to replacing you and moving on when you caught her. She back peddled for a while after the confrontation, but the pain of it's sting has faded, along with her attitude towards you, in the time that has since passed.

I would start by living my life like she's not going to be there in a few years. At worst case, you'll end up better prepared for if/when this day does finally come.

At best case, she'll see you getting better and growing stronger with each passing week and it just may the nudge that brings her back around.


"Be the water my friend."


----------



## alte Dame

destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


Yes, you should go nuclear. All that means is that you stop rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic and save yourself.

If that's 'nuclear,' then so be it.

There has been a lot of good advice on this thread, in my opinion. There is general agreement on what you should do.

Start the 180. Get a VAR. Start applying for good jobs for you outside of your geographical area. Get in gear to file for divorce.

Grab the damned lifeboat and get going!


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


Another woman here. Given the timeframe, given her lack of 100% into you, given the no sex, IIWY, I would simply tell her you're not feeling it, this is a false reconciliation because she OBVIOUSLY isn't remorseful enough to even have sex with you, while she was all too happy to give it up for him, so you're going to start looking into your options.

Put her on notice that you're not happy. That you need to see something from her to prove that she understands she has to make this up to you. That you only have a limited timeframe left before you'll have no choice but to move on.

Then watch her actions, not words.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Your wife is fortunate to have you as a husband. It's rare to see someone go to the lengths that you have to shield their adulterous spouse from any consequences for their affair. It's no surprise that she feels no remorse and is unwilling to put in any effort needed to help you and the marriage recover. Your whole attitude and how you've handled this has been docile and weak.

Respect and attraction are important in a relationship. Your wife has little (if any) respect towards you and whatever attraction she vanishes with how you're allowing her treat and talk to you. You've pretty much let her own you.

How do you feel about yourself over how you've handled this?. I believe that you are a strong and capable man, but you haven't demonstrated this. Your wife casually and blatanlty dismisses and disrespects you and you do... nothing.

You write as though all of her resentment, blame and attitude towards you are due to you being unemployed and that's not the case. It seems that it has been an issue through the marriage, even while you were taking care of your sick elderly mother you wrote:



destroyd said:


> She had refused to offer help with my mother's situation and actually resented me doing anything for my sick parent.


That's horrible, who behaves like this?



destroyd said:


> I'm 11 months into a reconciliation. Yes, It's turning out to look a whole lot like false reconciliation. But seriously people, I'm monitoring her seven ways from Sunday and there is no more evidence of wrongdoing. So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


False reconciliation doesn't necessarily refer to any evidence of wrongdoing or an ongoing underground affair. It's that your spouse isn't true and genuine in their intention to work on the relationship, and if you haven't read your own posts recentlty, she isn't.

However, if this isn't indicative of a false reconciliation to you:



destroyd said:


> I asked her to write a no contact email and send it, she ignored that request. I told her no contact outside of work with OM, she continues to talk to him ocasionally outside of work hrs and says it is strictly business. I asked her to let me know by text anytime she was around him, she has broken that a few times and was caught only because I asked who was she with (this is in the office with others present).


Then I don't know what is.

She has no remorse and basically doesn't care to repair the marriage, it's only you that wants to. It's likely that she'll either take up with the affair again, or a different one sometime in the not too distant future or leave the marriage when the right circumstances present themselves.

Start taking control of your life. You should tell your friends and relatives about her affair, at the very least so that you have someone to talk to and people to support you, and no, you do not need any justification to do so or permission from your wife.

Stop running after, don't implore her to please do this or that, it's sad. Have your own life, be confident and self-assured. If you haven't already, read up on the *The 180* and follow it for several weeks to help you be in a better space.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

marduk said:


> Here's the deal, dude.
> 
> You f'd up big time in becoming a 'puddle' and then you stayed a 'puddle' to be walked over by trading your wife's fidelity for money by accepting an R but having her stay in contact with this chump.
> 
> Here's what's going down. If they're not bumping uglies, then they are certainly commiserating about it, and have spent months rationalizing the affair. And you're seeing the outcome of her no longer feeling guilty about it.
> 
> Here's what I think you should do.
> 
> I think it starts with realizing that your wife left you long ago, and just still happens to be sharing your bed.
> 
> You need to talk to a lawyer. Sort yourself out. And then you need to leave. Get a job (talk to the lawyer first) but then yes -- any old job. To support yourself and your kids.
> 
> If she comes begging for you to take her back and she offers a TRUE reconciliation, maybe you can make a go of it.
> 
> But I doubt it. She'll go back to having sex with mr MBA until he gets bored of her, and dumps her. And then she'll go through a crisis... one that you don't really want to be around to pick the pieces up of. Because if you do, she'll just do it again.
> 
> This is a road she needs to walk alone.
> 
> And you need to get your head on straight.


What he said..


----------



## dental

Cringing as well here. I've read this thread with interest and looking at OP's situation. From a distance, the only plausible conclusion I come up with is that there is no 'togetherness' here. One of the spouses has stopped giving. Stopped putting energy in this union. Is looking outside. This is a dead marriage. OP, find peace with this fact, stop supplicating and start making a life for yourself. Good luck!


----------



## destroyd

Turnera, your suggestion has been on my mind- almost verbatim what you said. I'm just going to have a calm conversation and tell her that.


----------



## sparrow555

OP, you are one dense mofo


----------



## bandit.45

Folks, I'm pretty sure we have here what they call a consensus...


----------



## kristin2349

bandit.45 said:


> Folks, I'm pretty sure we have here what they call a consensus...


Yep, I'm just going to beat my head against the wall at this point. It is less painful than seeing where this is going.


----------



## destroyd

All right, the consensus has been heard. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> Turnera, your suggestion has been on my mind- almost verbatim what you said. I'm just going to have a calm conversation and tell her that.


So you're ready to divorce? 

Don't say it if you don't mean it.


----------



## G.J.

destroyd said:


> Turnera, your suggestion has been on my mind- almost verbatim what you said. I'm just going to have a calm conversation and tell her that.


calm...calm...
I do hope you let some emotion come through if your going to read her the riot act


----------



## destroyd

That's rich. Half of what she claims our problem is me saying mean things to her, yelling at her, and having a bad attitude. Well, how about not **** me over and maybe I'd be more pleasant.


----------



## G.J.

destroyd said:


> That's rich. Half of what she claims our problem is me saying mean things to her, yelling at her, and having a bad attitude. Well, how about not **** me over and maybe I'd be more pleasant.


Not yelling either........


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> That's rich. Half of what she claims our problem is me saying mean things to her, yelling at her, and having a bad attitude.


Do you?


----------



## ThePheonix

destroyd said:


> So, I should go nuclear because her attitude isn't what I require?


What are we going to do with you D. Have you even noticed the beating you're taking from this woman. Notwithstanding her cheating, she a master intimidatory, keeps you on the defense and you want to address it in a "calm manner". Are you a masochist or what?
I'm going to let you in on a secret about women. They operate only according to their own self-interest when it comes to a relationship with a man. Why do you think women file for divorce or otherwise end the relationship, 80% of the time? So if she gave a damn about you or the marriage, she'd be making it easy for you, care about your peace of mind, and wouldn't be giving you the old, "gee, I'm just not in the mood". The so called "R" may have appeared to start out well, but she's grown tried of putting her efforts in something her heart is not into.
I think what's going on with you is that you married a chick 9 years younger than you and your mesmerized by it and willing to roll over and play dead, always give in, and "calmly talk about" anything she dishes out, hoping she'll recognize what a wonderful, easygoing, loving guy you are, and come back into the fold.
The only thing is women find the classic wimped out, doormat, male boring and even offensive. They end up ditching those type males and settle down with passion and desire for a guy that demands respect, not needy, draws lines in the sand and can live without them. And for the record, I'm married to a women 9 years younger that thinks I hung the moon. I recommend the right women 6-10 years younger., with 10 being the max.


----------



## MarriedDude

turnera said:


> Another woman here. Given the timeframe, given her lack of 100% into you, given the no sex, IIWY, I would *simply tell her you're not feeling it*, this is a false reconciliation because she OBVIOUSLY isn't remorseful enough to even have sex with you, while she was all too happy to give it up for him, so you're going to start looking into your options.
> 
> Put her on notice that you're not happy. That you need to see something from her to prove that she understands she has to make this up to you. That you only have a limited timeframe left before you'll have no choice but to move on.
> 
> Then watch her actions, not words.


That right there OP is all you really need to say.


----------



## ButtPunch

destroyd said:


> That's rich. Half of what she claims our problem is me saying mean things to her, yelling at her, and having a bad attitude. Well, how about not **** me over and maybe I'd be more pleasant.


Typical cheater talk.

Quit trying to put your marriage back together by yourself and man up. Once you accept it's over the better chance you'll have of saving it. Hopefully, by then you won't want her back.


----------



## jsmart

destroyd said:


> Well, she is peaking. No doubt about it. I was positioned very well in my career also and made more money than her until the company was bought out and took a turn for the worst. Her company restructured also, but she ended up with a new boss who had the hots for her and her career took off and she was promoted. Things went badly for me, and *I failed to rise to the challenge *of finding another good job. It's not like I haven't tried to.


I agree with the others here that reason she cut you off is to stay loyal to her man. I would bet she wanted to leave you for him but I'm sure he put the kibosh on that. I mean, come on, unless this guy is a loser, he's not looking for an older divorcee with baggage. Sure he'll bang her but he ain't looking to buy the cow. She's still trying to win him though. That's why she cut you off and that's what the work outs are for. She wants to get hotter looking for him. 

All of this doesn't mean all of her complaints are not valid. Even though you're doing a lot of things around the house and used a lot of family money to get you through financially during your unemployment. No woman wants to support a man. It's not in their DNA.

Unless you can turn the lumber business into a full-time gig, you need to get a job, which in your case means relocating. You HAVE to do it. If you don't, she is going to leave you the day after she gets her MBA. 

And yes you should have confronted POS in person and reported to them to the HR. So what if she looses her job. That job has her thinking she's stronger and mightier than you. It's long past the time for you to rise to the challenge for yourself and your kids.


----------



## bfree

D, the simple fact is SHE has to convince YOU to stay in the marriage. She has to convince you 100%. Has she? Based on your thread and the fact that you're here at all I would have to say no. Why do you care about her job? She obviously doesn't or she wouldn't have had an affair with her boss. Whether she is still having sex with him isn't the point. In her mind he took her and by letting her continue to work there you shook his hand and congratulated him. He looks like the hero and you look like the zero. Now, why don't you set them both straight and reclaim your honor.


----------



## OldWolf57

D, we know all are not the same, but you know from being here that a VAR was your first tools to keep an eye on her, and you never used it.
Yeah she maybe looking to be a WWW, but your actions show her the job is more important than the marriage. In other words, you pimping her out. that may be causing her resentment also.

What would happen if you go talk with their boss, and ask that the guy be fired ?? Saying your wife was sexual harassed into an affair cause you guys are having financial trouble. 
Yeah its a bunch of crap, but a boss sexually harassing and conducting an affair with a married co-worker will have them covering their butts. Done right, she may even be able to keep her job. She certainly won't advance, but that's a fallout of her actions.

Then again, you might just want to expose to just family. Yeah, it going to add to the stress, but you guys was stressed before your job loss and the affair.

What I'm getting at, is you can tailor the exposure.


----------



## Sports Fan

destroyd said:


> How many would have confronted the OM? Everything I read at the time told me not to. Would telling him I didnt give a damn and that I was going to expose him if I caught a whiff of anything be considered a threat in a court of law?


Definately would have confronted the other man. There are ways of making your point without risking going to jail. You just have to be smart about it.

I think men who use i dont want to be arrested use it as an excuse to rugsweep and avoid confrontation.

Im not saying to bash him sensless in front of witnesses but what goes on without a witness is your word against his. Also it signals to him that perhaps she is more trouble than she is worth and dealing with an irate partner with balls aint worth it for him.

From where he is standing he is dealing with a gutless mouse who's wife he got to fu...ck and no consequences of whatsoever have come of it.

Sorry to be harsh i do feel for you but you need to man up


----------



## Sports Fan

Also its not about whether you can or cannot prove she is seeing him again. 

Its about when she got caught there are certain goals she had to commit to and see through.

She is not committing to any of it and yes not ****in...g you and the rest of the attitude that comes from her is damn good cause to go nuclear on her.


----------



## sparrow555

What do you think will happen if you have an affair and she finds out ?


----------



## GusPolinski

destroyd said:


> That's rich. Half of what she claims our problem is me saying mean things to her, yelling at her, and having a bad attitude. Well, how about not **** me over and maybe I'd be more pleasant.


First off, don't yell, say mean, hurtful, or sh*tty things to her, or stomp around in a bad attitude. All of that is pointlessly passive-aggressive (i.e. unlike the 180) and weak.

Second, if you're still tempted to do ^these things^ at 11 months into a reconciliation, then you're in a FALSE reconciliation.

Third (and, while this is little more than another way to make my previous point), if her behavior, attitude, and general stance toward you is such that you're tempted to do ^these things^, then you need to shift gears and take a new approach, which can be one of the following...

1. A new, no-more-bullsh*t, these-are-my-terms-for-reconciliation-going-forward-you-can-either-comply-or-GTFO methodology

2. Divorce

Also, you should find a job either way.


----------



## jsmart

Sports Fan said:


> Definately would have confronted the other man. There are ways of making your point without risking going to jail. You just have to be smart about it.
> 
> I think men who use i dont want to be arrested use it as an excuse to rugsweep and avoid confrontation.
> 
> Im not saying to bash him sensless in front of witnesses but what goes on without a witness is your word against his. Also it signals to him that perhaps she is more trouble than she is worth and dealing with an irate partner with balls aint worth it for him.
> 
> *From where he is standing he is dealing with a gutless mouse who's wife he got to fu...ck and no consequences* of whatsoever have come of it.
> 
> Sorry to be harsh i do feel for you but you need to man up


By getting off scott free, this POS definitely thinks you're less than nothing. This is the guy that blew up your family and you did nothing but research him? He should have felt your righteous anger. The fact that you did nothing and let her continue working there, just lowers your value further in your wife's eyes. Because I bet he's talked $hit about you. Questioning why she stays with a loser.

There is a SLIGHT chance that they've stopped PA,I don't think so, but you not working, when she's the breadwinner AND she's going to school to better herself makes her tolerance for your inaction on the job front a deal breaker for her. 

We're talking 11 months of not being the main breadwinner? You need to read up on responsive desire. Being a SAHD has the opposite effect on a woman's libido. Like I said earlier, if you need to relocate for a job, so be it.


----------



## jsmart

bfree said:


> D, the simple fact is SHE has to convince YOU to stay in the marriage. She has to convince you 100%. Has she? Based on your thread and the fact that you're here at all I would have to say no. Why do you care about her job? She obviously doesn't or she wouldn't have had an affair with her boss. Whether she is still having sex with him isn't the point. *In her mind he took her and by letting her continue to work there you shook his hand and congratulated him.* *He looks like the hero and you look like the zero. *Now, why don't you set them both straight and reclaim your honor.


Losing your mom, your job and then finding out that your wife and the mother of your children was shamelessly giving herself up on top of a desk at the office to a much younger man has really taken a toll on you. 

It's time for some action. All of it on rebuilding yourself up. You really have to hit the gym HARD. Lift heavy. It'll boost testosterone levels. which will boost your confidence and mood. 

As much as is financially possible, improve your fashion, hair, and hygiene. Being at home with kids and animals, it's easy to let yourself go. 

Think about what goes on in her head. She spending the day with a younger dynamic POS, who's probably looking dapper at the office, then comes home to frumpy Mr Mom. That will dry up any woman's vajajay in no time.


----------



## destroyd

I definately should have confronted the guy as soon as I found out. Now, after 11 months, do I still do it?


----------



## convert

destroyd said:


> I definately should have confronted the guy as soon as I found out. Now, after 11 months, do I still do it?


11 months is not that long in the scheme of things, It takes 2 to 5 years to recover with the right WS and BS working hard.

Well, if you do confront, have a VAR or two in place before you do so you can hear any fallout after the confront.

It would be nice to have one in her office if you could, maybe a pen VAR?

or have spy software on her phone to listen in.
there is software that you can turn the microphone on and listen from the phone.
I believe Devastateddad did this.


----------



## drifting on

destroyd said:


> I definately should have confronted the guy as soon as I found out. Now, after 11 months, do I still do it?




I confronted my WW OM twice at his work. TWICE. Now this is me and may be not who you are, but if you want to show your wife what a 
b---h he is then go to their workplace. Your wife never should have stayed there anyway. I know this first hand. I will tell you how I did and then you can decide what you feel is necessary. 

I showed up at their workplace at the end of the day. I confronted OM in front of my WW. Surprisingly (eye roll) he wanted nothing to do with me, but that wasn't his choice. After saying two sentences to OM he threw my WW under the bus, he tucked his tail between his legs. What my WW thought he was he wasn't, fact is he is a coward amongst other things. My WW couldn't stand the thought of him after three minutes of me standing in front of him. 

I called OM's wife and exposed the affair, I threatened to expose at work also. This was very scary to him as he knew how damaging this would be, both personally and career wise. I thought I could handle my WW and him to work together, clearly I was wrong. I met with OM again and within days he put in his notice. I found TAM to late, however, I was smart enough that once I did find TAM I used the advice people wrote in threads. Destryd, as gently as I can say this, you need to do the same as I did, pull your head from your a$$ and stand up.

If I were you, go to OM's work TODAY, threaten to expose him at work, tell him to never communicate with your WW unless its business. Also tell him business ends at five, he never contacts her out of work again, whatever he needs waits until tomorrow. Then go home and wait for your WW. When she comes home angry over what you did put your hand up indicating stop. Them tell her this is how your reconciliation is going to work. After you have told her your plan for reconciliation, ask if she agrees. If she doesn't tell her to leave. Then 180 hard. 

This is what I did and what I would do if I were you. You can do whatever you feel is necessary, but I can assure you she is still having her affair. Her coming home angry will show you the affair is alive and well. 

Now I will tell you I don't fully agree with the 2X4 approach, but workplace affairs trigger me hard as that is what happened to me. 

One little hint destryd, mention sexual harassment to OM and watch how fast he dumps your wife. Being her direct boss you may be able to sue this company, fill him in on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## destroyd

I have been trying to find a response to those of you telling me to just cut n run. 
This quoted passage below from another poster pretty much sums it up. I have plenty of self respect. Thats why it hurts so badly. I have had much the same experience as this guy has with my kids. My wife and I co-parent well together. We live for our kids- the both of us. 
The quote: 

For the younger folks, one thing you wont get until you have kids is that these little people are two things I would kill myself for without a second thought. I kicked her out of the house for 2 months and as much as I hated her for those two months, watching the affect it had on these two kids was devastating. "Where's mommy" "When is mommy coming home" Their personalities changed and it made me so sick to see them acting different. They would stay with her at her parents and then stay with me and sometimes they didn't want to come home to me they wanted to stay with her.

Enter lonely nights of binge drinking and sobbing (35 year old man btw) on my floor for hours.

There is no amount of hate toward her that is worth taking the kids' mommy from them or causing them any instability. That is my opinion. But I guess people divorce all the time and kids deal / adjust so who knows?

Still, seeing the effect it had on them is why I eventually invited her back to the house. Some nights we are in the same bed, the last few nights, I have been on the couch because I don't want to be near her. But the kids are very normal and happy now. Being a dad, you always (or should) think in sacrifice mode. I would be willing to be in a sub par marriage if it meant my kids would be better off.

Now if she and I were fighting all the time and the kids were seeing it, that would be a different story. But she and I agree to be mom and dad at all times when the kids are around and we talk almost every night. We talk a lot. sometimes they are good talks, sometimes they are not.

Just trying to add a bit of perspective on what my age and kids make me have to do.


----------



## destroyd

Thank you, drifting on- that seems to be some solid advice. I do not fear the guy. The main consideration is that they work in an office where there is on-site security. Hell, I think the doors stay locked to the damn place and you have to have a key to get in at all. I could wait in the parking lot for him.


----------



## G.J.

destroyd said:


> Thank you, drifting on- that seems to be some solid advice. I do not fear the guy. The main consideration is that they work in an office where there is on-site security. Hell, I think the doors stay locked to the damn place and you have to have a key to get in at all. I could wait in the parking lot for him.


Well if you wait in the parking lot I bet both will come out together so at least it saves you waiting on your wife to show

And ref the kids
If a loving couple bring up children its great

If a fractured couple bring up children they are deluded if they think its the best for the kids (just an excuse to stay together i.m.o.)

And please VAR her car


----------



## drifting on

destroyd said:


> Thank you, drifting on- that seems to be some solid advice. I do not fear the guy. The main consideration is that they work in an office where there is on-site security. Hell, I think the doors stay locked to the damn place and you have to have a key to get in at all. I could wait in the parking lot for him.



Destryd,

I'm sure I'll get blasted here but to me that makes it even more perfect. This is what I would do, again you decide what you want to do. I would go to security, have them call OM and ask him to come to that entrance. If he tells security he won't come ask to speak with him on the phone, tell security it is an urgent matter that you think would be best discussed privately. If he refuses ask security to call OM's boss, tell security you have vital private information to give his boss. If he won't come tell him you will distribute the vital information to the customers of this business. You will get a response from them! Just my opinion. 

Whatever happens OM will begin to feel pressure from you, so will your WW, which may just wake her up. I've been in your shoes, I know what you feel, I have twin boys, and I can dispute your entire previous post about staying and being miserable. Was counseling given to those kids? Is his wife still cheating? Staying for the kids is completely wrong, it's not easy on them either. But you need to decide what is best for the kids, and sometimes it's not what they want but it's the best for them in the long run. Yes as a father I make sacrifices, many of them, but I won't make a sacrifice now if it brings harm in the future. Kids are much more observant then we give them credit for, they will notice the bad relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

D, many of us has been pretty hard line, and I think realistic, in our advice to you. You've made a solid argument in respect to your kids and looks like you've come to terms with your acceptable options. You've got to do what you've got to do big Dawg. Clint Eastwood (Dirty Harry) said it best, "A Man's Got To Know His Limitations."


----------



## Hoosier

I sit here in awe, waiting for the guy who is to scared to find out the truth and VAR his wife, go to her office and call out the POS other man. Aint going to happen.

I don't really think it needs to actually, as having a run in with him is not going to have any affect on your marriage. 

I was where you are, except I was married 30 years, my kids were grown. My XW did not even try to save our marriage, which I think actually was a good thing for me, as I was not stuck in limbo for very long. (divorced in 82 days!) 

I get that you love her, you don't want to disrupt your kids. But the truth is, your kids are already disrupted, if you think for a second that they don't know something is going on, you are mistaken. Now you can decide if you want them to see a man doing what a man needs to do, even if its hard. Or, try to present to them a screwed up mess of a relationship as normal....yep that will really send them on lifes way.

D... so sorry you are here, very sorry. Tough place to be, you need time to figure it out, totally get that. In the mean time, stand up for yourself....get a job.....be an adult.


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> I definately should have confronted the guy as soon as I found out. Now, after 11 months, do I still do it?


Why bother?

You're not willing to confront your wife about her lackadaisical approach to your marriage.

Confronting him without confronting her just proves how weak you are being. And will convince her you're a doormat.

If you MUST confront him, don't do it until AFTER you tell HER you're not satisfied and you want to know what she's doing to do about it to keep you.

Otherwise, you'll be divorced as soon as your state allows it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

destroyd said:


> I have been trying to find a response to those of you telling me to just cut n run.
> This quoted passage below from another poster pretty much sums it up. I have plenty of self respect. Thats why it hurts so badly. I have had much the same experience as this guy has with my kids. My wife and I co-parent well together. We live for our kids- the both of us.
> The quote:
> 
> For the younger folks, one thing you wont get until you have kids is that these little people are two things I would kill myself for without a second thought. I kicked her out of the house for 2 months and as much as I hated her for those two months, watching the affect it had on these two kids was devastating. "Where's mommy" "When is mommy coming home" Their personalities changed and it made me so sick to see them acting different. They would stay with her at her parents and then stay with me and sometimes they didn't want to come home to me they wanted to stay with her.
> 
> Enter lonely nights of binge drinking and sobbing (35 year old man btw) on my floor for hours.
> 
> There is no amount of hate toward her that is worth taking the kids' mommy from them or causing them any instability. That is my opinion. But I guess people divorce all the time and kids deal / adjust so who knows?
> 
> Still, seeing the effect it had on them is why I eventually invited her back to the house. Some nights we are in the same bed, the last few nights, I have been on the couch because I don't want to be near her. But the kids are very normal and happy now. Being a dad, you always (or should) think in sacrifice mode. I would be willing to be in a sub par marriage if it meant my kids would be better off.
> 
> Now if she and I were fighting all the time and the kids were seeing it, that would be a different story. But she and I agree to be mom and dad at all times when the kids are around and we talk almost every night. We talk a lot. sometimes they are good talks, sometimes they are not.
> 
> Just trying to add a bit of perspective on what my age and kids make me have to do.


So wait, let me get this straight. You won't do anything to save your marriage because you don't want your kids to feel the effects? Really? :scratchhead:

This has been pointed out to you before, and you pay it lip service but it's clear that you haven't internalized it. You are in false R. Your wife is biding her time until she gets her MBA, or shortly after, then she's going to kick you to the curb. If you don't fight for your marriage you're going to lose it, and if you passively wait for you wife to make the first move you'll end up getting screwed in the divorce. _Do not allow her to set the agenda. _

Here's a scenario: She gets her MBA, secretly gets a new job somewhere half way across the country, sets everything up with you none the wiser and takes the kids and disappears. Since you haven't done anything to protect yourself or kids she has every right to move across the country with them, and suddenly it's you fighting for as much visitation as you can get, _after_ you've spent every dime you have on PI's just to find them.

Can't happen to you? She wouldn't do that? Sit there passively waiting for the other shoe to drop and see what happens.


----------



## GusPolinski

destroyd said:


> I have been trying to find a response to those of you telling me to just cut n run.
> This quoted passage below from another poster pretty much sums it up. I have plenty of self respect. Thats why it hurts so badly. I have had much the same experience as this guy has with my kids. My wife and I co-parent well together. We live for our kids- the both of us.
> The quote:
> 
> For the younger folks, one thing you wont get until you have kids is that these little people are two things I would kill myself for without a second thought. I kicked her out of the house for 2 months and as much as I hated her for those two months, watching the affect it had on these two kids was devastating. "Where's mommy" "When is mommy coming home" Their personalities changed and it made me so sick to see them acting different. They would stay with her at her parents and then stay with me and sometimes they didn't want to come home to me they wanted to stay with her.
> 
> Enter lonely nights of binge drinking and sobbing (35 year old man btw) on my floor for hours.
> 
> There is no amount of hate toward her that is worth taking the kids' mommy from them or causing them any instability. That is my opinion. But I guess people divorce all the time and kids deal / adjust so who knows?
> 
> Still, seeing the effect it had on them is why I eventually invited her back to the house. Some nights we are in the same bed, the last few nights, I have been on the couch because I don't want to be near her. But the kids are very normal and happy now. Being a dad, you always (or should) think in sacrifice mode. I would be willing to be in a sub par marriage if it meant my kids would be better off.
> 
> Now if she and I were fighting all the time and the kids were seeing it, that would be a different story. But she and I agree to be mom and dad at all times when the kids are around and we talk almost every night. We talk a lot. sometimes they are good talks, sometimes they are not.
> 
> Just trying to add a bit of perspective on what my age and kids make me have to do.


Regardless of your statements to the contrary, the lack of a more authoritative approach from you thus far indicates anything BUT "plenty of self respect".

Look, we get it. You have kids. You love your kids. You'd kill for your kids. You'd die for your kids. You'd suffer for your kids. But why suffer needlessly? That's what you're doing.

It's worth nothing that the author of that post (DevastatedDad) took a completely different approach w/ respect to the reconciliation of his marriage than you have to date... at least initially, anyway. The last time that he posted on the matter, he and his wife had more or less settled into a friends/roommate type of relationship. Sounds pretty miserable, IMO. Young children may be happy living under the same roof w/ parents in such a relationship, but it's little more than a Band-Aid, isn't it? After all, as they get older, and start to learn a bit more about the dynamics of their parents' marriage, they're going to gain some pretty crappy insight into what a marriage should look like.

Take it from someone whose parents separated when he was 8, reconciled, and then wound up divorcing when he was in his early 30's... I'd have handled it a lot better at 8.

To be clear, we're not necessarily saying that you need to or should file for divorce. What we ARE saying is that you should either (a) _improve your marriage by *TAKING CHARGE* of the reconciliation of your marriage_ (and we've more or less outlined all the steps that you should be taking toward that end) or (b) file for divorce.


----------



## Graywolf2

destroyd said:


> But, since I am out of work, and we must have her salary to survive, she still works at the same job. She is in administration and makes a good salary. I did not expose the affair to our families or her workplace, as we need her job and insurance.


As long as the above is true you’re in a very weak position. It’s like playing poker and having no good cards. I would have a hard time if I was in your position because I don’t like to bluff. You need to get some better cards. 

You’re probably limiting your job search to your immediate area which greatly restricts your opportunities. The longer you’re unemployed the more rusty your skills become and the harder it will be to find a job ever. 

My advice is to look for jobs even if they will require you to get an apartment and come home on weekends. Once you get a foot in the door you have no idea what other doors may open. Right now you’re Mr. Mom and your wife takes for granted all that you do. If she has to take up the slack she will appreciate what you do more.

Or stay Mr. Mom, divorce her, get the kids and alamony. The only cards you have now are that you're the primary caretaker of the kids. 

*What I’m saying is deal with this from a position of strength and quit whining.*


----------



## MarriedDude

destroyd said:


> I have been trying to find a response to those of you telling me to just cut n run.
> This quoted passage below from another poster pretty much sums it up. I have plenty of self respect. Thats why it hurts so badly. I have had much the same experience as this guy has with my kids. My wife and I co-parent well together. We live for our kids- the both of us.
> The quote:
> 
> For the younger folks, one thing you wont get until you have kids is that these little people are two things I would kill myself for without a second thought. I kicked her out of the house for 2 months and as much as I hated her for those two months, watching the affect it had on these two kids was devastating. "Where's mommy" "When is mommy coming home" Their personalities changed and it made me so sick to see them acting different. They would stay with her at her parents and then stay with me and sometimes they didn't want to come home to me they wanted to stay with her.
> 
> Enter lonely nights of binge drinking and sobbing (35 year old man btw) on my floor for hours. Stop that right now. You own your life...not her...not her actions.
> 
> There is no amount of hate toward her that is worth taking the kids' mommy from them or causing them any instability. That is my opinion. But I guess people divorce all the time and kids deal / adjust so who knows? Do you really think that the tension in your house is invisible to them? Wake up. No matter how you try to hide it -they see it and/or feel it...I know this...my father has been married and divorced almost as much as elizabeth taylor. THEY KNOW.
> 
> Still, seeing the effect it had on them is why I eventually invited her back to the house. Some nights we are in the same bed, the last few nights, I have been on the couch because I don't want to be near her. But the kids are very normal and happy now. Being a dad, you always (or should) think in sacrifice mode. I would be willing to be in a sub par marriage if it meant my kids would be better off. In what way, really do you think being in a subpar marriage is helping them? Do you have a son? What are you teaching him by your inaction?
> 
> Now if she and I were fighting all the time and the kids were seeing it, that would be a different story. But she and I agree to be mom and dad at all times when the kids are around and we talk almost every night. We talk a lot. sometimes they are good talks, sometimes they are not. So you have negotiated how you and her are going to present the lie to your kids. THEY KNOW. Every minute you guys put on the show...they are getting more and more confused.
> 
> J*ust trying to add a bit of perspective on what my age and kids make me have to do.*


*You get to choose everyday...what you are going to do and what you are not going to do. Face it...you are currently living the life you want to live. 

Until you decide to get off your knees and stop begging for scraps from this woman you will remain tormented...living this roller coaster life. 

It all stops when you decide it stops. I hope you decide soon.*


----------



## bandit.45

She shows all the signs of a woman still in her affair. 

The very fact that she slept peacefully through the night while letting you sleep on the couch tells me everything I need to know about your wife. 

A truly repentant wife would have come down to the living room and begged you to come to bed with her, and if you would not, she would have brought down a pillow and blanket and slept in the chair next to you, or on the floor beneath you...anything to be close to you. 

She's not afraid of losing you because she knows she has you by the throat. 

You're not in reconciliation. You are in hell my friend. Are you happy there?


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## G.J.

VAR
VAR
VAR

Oh ....did we say
VAR


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## OldWolf57

Let's not pile on please, he GOT this an really justed wanted thoughts on the cutting off and stuff.

TAM vets know what's what.


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## G.J.

You mentioned a few pages ago that you are tech savvy

What exactly have you done so far to bring you to your current/previous conclusion she has stopped ?


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## ArmyofJuan

To echo what everyone is saying...

Your marriage is all but over, all the excuses you are using to not leave is not going to stop her from leaving you. The question will be if it's going to be on your terms or hers?

You are in deep denial about your situation, she is showing all the signs of someone getting ready to jump ship, it's just a matter of when. You can try to beat her to the punch and maybe get her off guard enough where she might actually try to R or just wait until she serves you papers.

You won't get a trophy for being a martyr in your marriage, you'll just regret not taking action sooner. Nobody ever says they wished they had given their cheating spouse a second chance but many have said they regret they did.


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## Vulcan2013

I know the advice is counterintuitive, but no one is telling you to cut and run. They are telling you that you are being incredibly weak. Which costs you any respect she once had. And that makes you extremely unattractive. 

Everyone's instinct is to "nice them back", but that doesn't work with a cheater. Are you attracted to pathetic women? She's working with her confident, in-charge affair partner. You valued her income so much that you let her continue to work there. Inside, she views you as not standing up for the marriage or yourself. 

She is working her (secret) agenda. You will get dumped in due time. 

You see it here again and again: those who are willing to leave the marriage do better than those who don't take action. If you stand up to her, she will begin to respect more even if she isn't nice. 

Filing for D won't end the marriage, it takes time and can be stopped. 

I'd suggest not confronting the OM unless it is to tell him to transfer or be exposed. Begging him not to F your wife is pathetic.

*Women are coaching you to man up, and you are making excuses. *

Be a man of action, not words. Stop talking with her about non-business stuff. Go cold. Work the 180. For God's sake don't talk about R, your feelings or the relationship. Action plan:

1. Expose to her family. Do it as asking for their support, not as "telling on her". Don't tell her beforehand. Expose to her close friends that she looks up to. You are keeping her secrets, and that makes you weak. She'll be furious and tell you there's no chance now for R. It's in the script. Smile and give an insincere DGAF "apology". This step is critical. 

2. Meet with a couple of divorce attorneys. (I'd recommend you file, and ask for alimony, majority custody, and child support). 

3. If she orders you to sleep on the couch, take the damn bed. Stop bending to her. She left the marriage, she leaves the bed. 

4. Ramp up the job search. Nationwide. Use your contacts. I'd suggest LinkedIn and Dice. If you find something, have separation or D papers filed so you have some control. 

5. Document to build a case for custody. 

Godspeed. I believe in you!


----------



## happyman64

Destroyed

When you do confront him and you should please keep the VAR on you at all times.

Make his life hell.

And if your wife comes and gives you hell then you know who to take care of next?

Her.

HM


----------



## turnera

> Enter lonely nights of binge drinking and sobbing (35 year old man btw) on my floor for hours.


Are you saying that this is what YOU will be if your wife divorces you? That it's what you did when she left?

So you let her come back - ON HER TERMS - just so you wouldn't be alone at night? And now, instead of telling HER that you're not happy, you want to be puff your chest up at the OM? Because HIM, you're not afraid of. SHE has all the power cos you're terrified if you speak to her, she'll leave again.

That's sad. So sad.

You need a therapist. Like today.


----------



## destroyd

No Turnera, I never did that- I did have a few stiff drinks and contemplate though. 

My wife has been told exactly how I feel- she is the one who avoids communication. That has been a problem our entire marriage- she cannot/will not communicate. She holds it all in until something breaks. I suggested counseling many times before her affair. She will not see any counselor. 

I mainly referenced that quote because my kids are very important to me. I was fortunate that my parents were only separated by death. I have witnessed friends growing up in divorced families, seen firsthand the drama between children and parents who were got remarried, and kept two children of a relative of mine for a time when their parents were separated/divorcing. It was heartrending the sadness those kids had for their family unit. My wife is a damn good mother to our children. Whats so damn crazy is my wife comes from a divorced family where her father cheated- she has huge issues herself with her own mom and dad over it here 20 years later. That she could cheat, herself, after what she has seen it can do is just beyond screwed up. I was working, commuting, working long hours myself. She realized she could get away with it, never thought there was any way she would ever get caught, so she did it. She only got caught because she fell asleep and didnt count on the guy unexpectedly blowing up her phone when she didnt have it in her hand.


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## turnera

None of that changes the fact that she has NO REASON to step up. She knows you aren't going anywhere.


----------



## MarriedDude

destroyd said:


> No Turnera, I never did that- I did have a few stiff drinks and contemplate though.
> 
> My wife has been told exactly how I feel- she is the one who avoids communication. That has been a problem our entire marriage- she cannot/will not communicate. She holds it all in until something breaks. I suggested counseling many times before her affair. She will not see any counselor.
> 
> I mainly referenced that quote because my kids are very important to me. I was fortunate that my parents were only separated by death. I have witnessed friends growing up in divorced families, seen firsthand the drama between children and parents who were got remarried, and kept two children of a relative of mine for a time when their parents were separated/divorcing. It was heartrending the sadness those kids had for their family unit. My wife is a damn good mother to our children. Whats so damn crazy is my wife comes from a divorced family where her father cheated- she has huge issues herself with her own mom and dad over it here 20 years later. That she could cheat, herself, after what she has seen it can do is just beyond screwed up. I was working, commuting, working long hours myself. She realized she could get away with it, never thought there was any way she would ever get caught, so she did it. *She only got caught because she fell asleep and didnt count on the guy unexpectedly blowing up her phone when she didnt have it in her hand*.


I would venture she only got caught because she had no fear


----------



## destroyd

She got careless- she had plenty of fear when I confronted her. 


Yes, my intentions were not to go anywhere. I was raised to not be a quitter and to stick by your partner- cant help that was the way I viewed things. Now, after all that has happened I'm not afraid to admit that having that attitude was ineffective. I thought my wife was infatuated, that she was fogged up, and would come to her senses. She did display some remorse and seemed to re-engage me for a few months. In reality, she has had a paradigm shift in the way she views me and our life together. The guy she married and had kids with aint good enough any more. Thats what I'm dealing with.


----------



## bandit.45

destroyd said:


> No Turnera, I never did that- I did have a few stiff drinks and contemplate though.
> 
> My wife has been told exactly how I feel- she is the one who avoids communication. That has been a problem our entire marriage- she cannot/will not communicate. She holds it all in until something breaks. I suggested counseling many times before her affair. She will not see any counselor.
> 
> *** This is a very common trait with waywards. Then, when they get busted, they always use the excuse that the BS never listened to them and didn't care about their feelings.
> *
> 
> I mainly referenced that quote because my kids are very important to me. I was fortunate that my parents were only separated by death. I have witnessed friends growing up in divorced families, seen firsthand the drama between children and parents who were got remarried, and kept two children of a relative of mine for a time when their parents were separated/divorcing. It was heartrending the sadness those kids had for their family unit.
> 
> *We ALL have seen this. So what? What makes it so special in your case? *
> 
> 
> My wife is a damn good mother to our children.
> 
> *No. She's not. A good mother does not cheat on her husband and put the stability of the family unit at risk. She is a selfish mother. She is far from good. Not even in the same ballpark as good.
> *
> 
> Whats so damn crazy is my wife comes from a divorced family where her father cheated- she has huge issues herself with her own mom and dad over it here 20 years later. That she could cheat, herself, after what she has seen it can do is just beyond screwed up.
> 
> *It is very common for waywards to pick up bad coping skills from their parents. Again, nothing special here. Next... *
> 
> I was working, commuting, working long hours myself.
> 
> *Oh...but now you're a slouch!! A no good deadbeat. Back before you got laid off she didn't complain. But now that you are unemployed your entire moral character just suddenly went from hardworking man to deadbeat. My...how insightful she is... It must be such a burden to be as perfect as she is. *
> 
> 
> She realized she could get away with it, never thought there was any way she would ever get caught, so she did it. She only got caught because she fell asleep and didnt count on the guy unexpectedly blowing up her phone when she didnt have it in her hand.
> 
> *And she would have kept on fvcking him and betraying you up until she got that degree and the big promotion and then left you. She didn't stop out of remorse, empathy or guilt for what she was doing to you. She would have never stopped had she not screwed up.*


You seem to think your wife is somehow special... that your situation with her and the kids is special. 

Well, it is not. 

Your wife is pathetically average and common for a cheater. There is absolutely nothing about your story that stands out in any way from the hundreds of other stories we see here on TAM. This is why it is very easy for us to predict how all this will pan out if you do not gird your loins, find your man-sack, take some of the power back and protect yourself legally.


----------



## bandit.45

destroyd said:


> She got careless- she had plenty of fear when I confronted her.
> 
> 
> Yes, my intentions were not to go anywhere.* I was raised to not be a quitter *and to stick by your partner- cant help that was the way I viewed things. Now, after all that has happened I'm not afraid to admit that having that attitude was ineffective. I thought my wife was infatuated, that she was fogged up, and would come to her senses. She did display some remorse and seemed to re-engage me for a few months. In reality, she has had a paradigm shift in the way she views me and our life together. The guy she married and had kids with aint good enough any more. Thats what I'm dealing with.


You are not a quitter. She is. You are a good man faced with some tough choices that she has thrust in your lap. But you have to get your head out of the sand, look up and see things for what they really are. 

Your wife changed. People change...often for the worse, and often because of buried character flaws that the BS never sees until life's circumstances bring them to the surface. 

Your wife bailed on the marriage when things got rough. When you lost your job, she jumped on to the nearest man who she thought would give her the stability she needed. 

Why would you want to spend your life with a woman like this who is 

1) A coward.

2) Has no sense of loyalty or fidelity. 

3) Blames all the problems in the marriage on you.

4) Takes no responsibility for her bad behavior. 

5) Lies....?


----------



## jsmart

destroyd said:


> She got careless- she had plenty of fear when I confronted her.
> 
> 
> Yes, my intentions were not to go anywhere. I was raised to not be a quitter and to stick by your partner- cant help that was the way I viewed things. Now, after all that has happened I'm not afraid to admit that having that attitude was ineffective. I thought my wife was infatuated, that she was fogged up, and would come to her senses. She did display some remorse and seemed to re-engage me for a few months. In reality, *she has had a paradigm shift in the way she views me and our life together. The guy she married and had kids with aint good enough any more. *Thats what I'm dealing with.


Even in marriages were there is no cheating, a wife doesn't want to be the main bread winner but when she's the only one forget about it. Your situation is exacerbated by the fact that she got a taste of a go getter and she seems to one to be one herself. 

With that mindset, she is going to be repulsed by you sitting at home eating Bon Bons. I know you do a lot but only manly support is respected and rewarded by fraking. Studies have shown that despite woman saying they would sex up their husbands more if they helped around the house, Husbands that did provide the extra help were getting less sex than the men that help only a little.

The bottom line, to restore the balance of power, you need to get your career going again. She married and had children with a engineer but is now stuck with a sahd. Yes, she F'ed up truly deserves to be kicked to the curb but since you seem to one to R, then you have get your $hit in order. Priority 1 is bring home the bacon.


----------



## destroyd

Shes not gonna get any big promotion, the job she already holds unofficially requires the degree. They are paying for the degree. But, yes, point taken.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

*destroyd*, this is a summary of all your posts.. "She".

I don't want you to be back here months ｢or most likely years｣ from now saying that you should've listened to the advice you've received here but it appears that that's where you're headed. If the advice hasn't reached or resonated with you by now then I doubt it will until your life has been thoroughly devastated. When that happens no will think 'Told him so'. There'll just be a general sentiment that so much was wasted and it could all have been so different, so much better.

The excuses you make, the rationalizing, the denial, the fear, the inability to act is unbelievably immense in you. It's compulsive, pathalogical actually. You want so hard to reject your reality. I want so much to be you right now so that I could help you do what you have to because you seem incapable and unwilling, but the only one that can help you is _you_.

I wish you the best, I'll follow your thread but will no longer comment since there's really nothing more to add. You have all that you need.


----------



## TRy

destroyd said:


> My wife has been told exactly how I feel- she is the one who avoids communication. That has been a problem our entire marriage- she cannot/will not communicate. She holds it all in until something breaks. I suggested counseling many times before her affair. She will not see any counselor.


 She is holding it in, because she does not want to be transparent with you and tell you the truth about her cheating. She does not want counseling because you do not both have the same goals in this marriage. Your goal is to have a better marriage where there is communication and no cheating. Her goal is to have a better marriage in which she has all the advantages of you being a faithful husband and the father of her children, while also having the advantages of her having a secret lover on the side.


----------



## G.J.

destroyd said:


> *If she has a burner phone, she doesn't use it in the car,* and it never comes home with her. Trust me, I have read this and several other forums since I first started suspecting problems. I am familiar with tech as I am experienced in electronics and computers. I am on top of most anything she could get away with..


Asked before exactly what tech you have used also I interpreted the above with YOU HAVE used a VAR ?


----------



## Marduk

Listen, man. You're taking on guilt and accountability for your kids upset about mommy not being home.

The thing is, this is on her, not on you. She is the one that blew up your marriage. She is the one that carried on an affair. And likely still is, or is at least still in contact with this guy.

What you should feel guilt for is condoning it and dragging this thing out.

What are you teaching your children? That a husband should stay at home and roll out the red carpet for his cheating wife?

Or that a husband and father is strong for his kids, and will stand up for himself -- and them -- when it's needed?

Lawyer. Job. Kick her out.

How many times do we all have to say the same thing?


----------



## Vulcan2013

_My wife has been told exactly how I feel- she is the one who avoids communication. That has been a problem our entire marriage- she cannot/will not communicate. She holds it all in until something breaks. I suggested counseling many times before her affair. She will not see any counselor._

Stop talking about your feelings. She heard and she doesn't care, because she doesn't respect you. 

_She got careless- she had plenty of fear when I confronted her. 
_

Didn't last, did it? Once you took her back with no consequences, she lost her respect and cut you off. That initial fear was of you, expecting you would blow her world up for destroying the marriage. You've disappointed her, believe it or not.


----------



## bfree

destroyd said:


> Shes not gonna get any big promotion, the job she already holds unofficially requires the degree. They are paying for the degree. But, yes, point taken.


She IS going to get her degree. She IS going to get a promotion and a fat raise. Then she IS going to kick you to the curb like so much unwanted garbage. These things WILL happen because you have let them and continue to let them. You have not forced her to face any consequences for her behavior. She continues to work at the place that was and is the site of her affair. She is still working with her lover and their relationship has been approved and sanctified by you. All the while you sit at home bemoaning your situation and looking for excuses to do absolutely nothing. Here's a clue for you. Your wife can't stand you. She has no respect for you. And since you are passively standing by allowing her to advance her career, her social standing and control the narrative she will make sure your kids won't respect you either. This is what happens to a doormat. It's past time to change that don't you think?


----------



## ButtPunch

I sense much fear in this OP......


----------



## Hoosier

It is not fear, more like despair. He wants so much to go back to the time where he did not know what was going on, have his little dream back. In the mean time, he is trying to put off processing what has happened to him, so he is just spinning in the mud. I know these things because I was there one time. The only difference between him and I, is I forced myself to try and process the affair (likened it to a computer trying to process a bad file, all is good until it hits that file then it spins and spins, exactly how it was for me) and eventually I was able to get past the bad "file" and start processing again.....all it takes is time. The OP has a bit of a bigger problem, in that he is more interested in sitting around moaning about his problems, where I demanded action and in fact the only relief I was able to get for the first six months is when I was working out hard. (I had my best time ever in the 500 freestyle during this time) We have given him the advice, up to him to follow.... I am still hopeful for him.


----------



## destroyd

Folks, you dont know me, nor my wife, nor all our history. I'm not saying you all are wrong- I'm starting to see the light now. Damn you can be a hard bunch- but I can take it. I appreciate the candor. 

Until about the 8 month mark, my wife was actively engaging me, and we went through HB, had settled to a more normal sex routine. I had, and still have total transparency in all her devices. She had me thinking while not an ideal R, we were trying to R. And she did try what I thought was a show of real effort. That combined with my tech and checking up had me satisfied that she was out of the A. Only now, after I have shared with you all, and gotten the responses I have do I have a clearer perspective on what has happened. 

She had already lost her respect for me when she ****ed the OM. Now I see that she HAD to suffer the consequences to have any hope of that respect ever coming back. Thats the part I missed in all my reading. While I thought I was being the bigger person by accepting her back, after a while, and still working with OM, she saw it as weakness and desperation. My job situation is a negative factor also, now, shes using it as an excuse to give up on the R, which her heart was never in to start with. 

Yes, I should have made her quit the job, I should have exposed her to family and her work, I should have confronted OM, I should have not accepted no on the counseling. That is my fault- I ****ed things up. Doing those things would have knocked her ass off the fence one way or the other and I'd be in a better spot, and retained my self respect. I get that NOW 11 months out.


----------



## bandit.45

ButtPunch said:


> I sense much fear in this OP......


Wise you are Master Butt.


----------



## MyTurn

So,
start the 180 and do things you like to do ,
start going out with friends,
go to the gym or better yet start dance classes.

The point is to start enjoying your life without her.
That's how you start to move on.

If she truly wants to R, then she will feel you drifting away
and she will have to step up her game to win you back.
If not,you will have already started to detach.
It's a win win for you.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you been reading any of the other threads? You are right we don't know you or your wife. But your story and your wife's actions are run of the mill here. I would say you still have a shot at saving your marriage. The problem is neither of you are doing anything to save it. There is another poster here with what seems to be a similar problem. You simply can't wrap your head around the information you are given. I am wondering if this is the problem with both of your marriages. For example, yousay your wife can't communicate with you. I'm beginning to think she has just given up trying to talk to you. Is English your first language?


----------



## bfree

destroyd said:


> Folks, you dont know me, nor my wife, nor all our history. I'm not saying you all are wrong- I'm starting to see the light now. Damn you can be a hard bunch- but I can take it. I appreciate the candor.
> 
> Until about the 8 month mark, my wife was actively engaging me, and we went through HB, had settled to a more normal sex routine. I had, and still have total transparency in all her devices. She had me thinking while not an ideal R, we were trying to R. And she did try what I thought was a show of real effort. That combined with my tech and checking up had me satisfied that she was out of the A. Only now, after I have shared with you all, and gotten the responses I have do I have a clearer perspective on what has happened.
> 
> She had already lost her respect for me when she ****ed the OM. Now I see that she HAD to suffer the consequences to have any hope of that respect ever coming back. Thats the part I missed in all my reading. While I thought I was being the bigger person by accepting her back, after a while, and still working with OM, she saw it as weakness and desperation. My job situation is a negative factor also, now, shes using it as an excuse to give up on the R, which her heart was never in to start with.
> 
> Yes, I should have made her quit the job, I should have exposed her to family and her work, I should have confronted OM, I should have not accepted no on the counseling. That is my fault- I ****ed things up. Doing those things would have knocked her ass off the fence one way or the other and I'd be in a better spot, and retained my self respect. I get that NOW 11 months out.


Correct. Now, what are you going to do about it?


----------



## bfree

D, the simple fact is if you want to attempt a real reconciliation she quits her job TODAY!. Anything less and you move straight to divorce. Either the marriage is the most important thing in BOTH your lives or it isn't. There is no other options.


----------



## Vulcan2013

bfree said:


> Correct. Now, what are you going to do about it?


Work out a plan of action in this thread. 

No one handles it right at first. You know you should have done this differently, but you can't go back. What is your plan to move forward? 

What is your desired outcome?


----------



## tryingpatience

destroyd said:


> I mainly referenced that quote because my kids are very important to me. I was fortunate that my parents were only separated by death. I have witnessed friends growing up in divorced families, seen firsthand the drama between children and parents who were got remarried, and kept two children of a relative of mine for a time when their parents were separated/divorcing. It was heartrending the sadness those kids had for their family unit. My wife is a damn good mother to our children.


If she is a good mother than you should have no problems letting her be their mother. She can be their mom but she doesn't have to be your wife. You don't have to be with her to make this work. We've seen situation where the cheating spouse is an unfit parent.

I'm currently co-parenting with my ex and there isn't any drama. You want to know why? It's because I don't get involved and I've let go. I live my own life and she lives her own. And guess what. My kids love my gf and she loves them. My kids are happy that they have two moms.


----------



## leon1

I might have missed it but does she still go away on business trips ,just not with the om.


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## Marduk

You have one shot if for some strange reason you still want this woman. Exactly one. And it's low probability; but it's not zero.

Lawyer. Job. Kick her out.


----------



## turnera

I've been out of work for 4 months. I've been doing side work to put food on the table. You could be doing that, too. Don't make this about you don't have a job. That's a copout.

Peel this back to the bare bones. You have a wife who won't have sex with you. You have kids WATCHING you have a wife who doesn't respect you and who uses you.

Guess what kind of marriage THEY are going to look for when they grow up, unless they see something different? Unless they see you valuing yourself enough to say 'I deserve more' and leaving to find it.

And the side benefit to that is that she MIGHT suddenly get her head out of her butt and realize she really DOES want you, once she has to pursue you. 

You have nothing to lose at this point by moving on. And by at the very least, following the 180 so she can SEE you having a great life without her. "You don't think I'm worth having sex with? Fine. I'll fill my life up with other stuff. I don't need you."


----------



## destroyd

Turnera, lets say you were layed off your primary job of 18 years, but your spouse was working, but you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage. You're telling me you would be taking the first ****ty job that came up- just so you'd be 'working'? And that your spouse ought not to respect that as income? I also brought a rental property into the marriage that we get payed rent on every month. I have been generating income. Actually more than twice what hers is. And there's more timber where that came from. Our bills arent going unpaid. We could live several years comfortably without missing a beat, but I'm getting the third and forth degree about not finding a job.


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## GusPolinski

destroyd said:


> Turnera, lets say you were layed off your primary job of 18 years, but your spouse was working, but you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage. You're telling me you would be taking the first ****ty job that came up- just so you'd be 'working'? And that your spouse ought not to respect that as income? I also brought a rental property into the marriage that we get payed rent on every month. I have been generating income. Actually more than twice what hers is. And there's more timber where that came from. Our bills arent going unpaid. We could live several years comfortably without missing a beat, but I'm getting the third and forth degree about not finding a job.


And yet you're still at home playing Mr. Mom while she's at work f*cking her boss.

Yeah, nevermind us. You've got this sh*t down pat.


----------



## ThePheonix

D, my man, youre the one putting up with the horse shyt she's putting on you. I said before with your assets, income, rental property, etc., I'd be damned if I let her jerk me around like you do. You're too easy to rationalize why you have to continue going down this road. Ain't no magic words or potions that's going to make her think of you as anything but a jerk off. Her riding your azz about a job is a ruse. If it wasn't that, it would be something else. She using it to pull your strings because she's made it your Achilles heal and you go for it. It a perfect excuse for her to keep you at bay.
Dawg, I said before every man should know his limitations. You don't appear to see how co-dependent you are. We are trying to at least give of a glimpse of the way this thing is eventually going down. In the end, I predict she's going to cast you aside like a used rubber and the phony loving home you think youre providing for your kids is going south anyway.


----------



## bfree

destroyd said:


> Turnera, lets say you were layed off your primary job of 18 years, but your spouse was working, but you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage. You're telling me you would be taking the first ****ty job that came up- just so you'd be 'working'? And that your spouse ought not to respect that as income? I also brought a rental property into the marriage that we get payed rent on every month. I have been generating income. Actually more than twice what hers is. And there's more timber where that came from. Our bills arent going unpaid. We could live several years comfortably without missing a beat, but I'm getting the third and forth degree about not finding a job.


So if money isn't an issue why is she still working there?


----------



## aine

The issue right now is not the job, the money, who is earning what. The issue is your wife had/still cheated/cheating on you. You have to deal with that issue first and foremost, everything else is peripheral and an excuse. YOu have to follow the advice here about dealing with a WW or you will continue to go around in circles. Do not let her use any excuse to mitigate, minimize, justify what she is doing right now, those are separate issues. You have to see that too because she is throwing up a big smoke screen and you are falling for it, hook line and sinker.


----------



## farsidejunky

Maybe if you focus on all of the things other than your wife you can somehow continue to convince yourself that everything is okay... Argue with a few folks in here... After all, we really have no skin in the game...

Which as it turns out is incredibly helpful in this situation because we are not seeing your situation through rose-colored glasses.

1. Your wife is not having sex with you. 
2. She is still working with her AP.

Those two facts alone are enough to warrant a full freaking stop.


----------



## jsmart

destroyd said:


> Turnera, lets say you were layed off your primary job of 18 years, but your spouse was working, but you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage. You're telling me you would be taking the first ****ty job that came up- just so you'd be 'working'? And that your spouse ought not to respect that as income? I also brought a rental property into the marriage that we get payed rent on every month. I have been generating income. Actually more than twice what hers is. And there's more timber where that came from. Our bills arent going unpaid. We could live several years comfortably without missing a beat, but I'm getting the third and forth degree about not finding a job.


If money isn't the problem, then she should have quit on d day. She obviously sees the financial picture differently than you do. Besides it sounds like she wants more of a go-getter. She see you coasting on family money. At least before you were and engineer. But being Mr Mom is too much of a status hit for her. 

If you're able to turn the lumber into your new gig, then you need to own it. From here on out, you're in lumber biz. Embrace it and go whole hog. Let her see that you're a dynamic lumber entrepreneur that is running his own biz. No longer should you approach it as an unemployed engineer that is liquidating the family property to avoid getting a job. If not, she'll continue to be around POS and will drop you soon as she finishes her MBA.


----------



## OldWolf57

As I said, it's not about the job. Most women I know don't freaking care how, as long as it's legal and enough.
And from the sound of it, not knowing your debts, you are doing damn good financially.

My wife is bedridden, but don't worry as long as the rentals bring it in.

It's about her respect for you for the way you handled this.

Hell, just tell her you are not getting a job from now on. Your'e going to invest in more rentals, so she can stop using the job as an excuse to be a bit#h, cause you are self/employed from now on.
Heck, she may even be resentful of you doing so well financially but not forcing her to quit.

But are we ever going to know what really goes on in cheaters heads, or care ??


----------



## ThePheonix

OldWolf57 said:


> Hell, just tell her you are not getting a job from now on. Your'e going to invest in more rentals, so she can stop using the job as an excuse to be a bit#h, cause you are self/employed from now on.


What's she going to do? Cut you off?


----------



## Graywolf2

jsmart said:


> If you're able to turn the lumber into your new gig, then you need to own it. From here on out, you're in lumber biz. Embrace it and go whole hog. Let her see that you're a dynamic lumber entrepreneur that is running his own biz. No longer should you approach it as an unemployed engineer that is liquidating the family property to avoid getting a job. If not, she'll continue to be around POS and will drop you soon as she finishes her MBA.





OldWolf57 said:


> Hell, just tell her you are not getting a job from now on. Your'e going to invest in more rentals, so she can stop using the job as an excuse to be a bit#h, cause you are self/employed from now on.


These are good ideas. Your wife thinks of the rental and lumber income as a given that has nothing to do with you. Because the money rolls in with little effort it doesn’t count. It’s like the marriage came with a dowry or an oil well in the back yard. If she becomes unemployed too she will gain respect for this income.



destroyd said:


> She had already lost her respect for me when she ****ed the OM. Now I see that she HAD to suffer the consequences to have any hope of that respect ever coming back. Thats the part I missed in all my reading. While I thought I was being the bigger person by accepting her back, after a while, and still working with OM, she saw it as weakness and desperation. My job situation is a negative factor also, now, shes using it as an excuse to give up on the R, which her heart was never in to start with.
> 
> Yes, I should have made her quit the job, I should have exposed her to family and her work, I should have confronted OM, I should have not accepted no on the counseling. That is my fault- I ****ed things up. Doing those things would have knocked her ass off the fence one way or the other and I'd be in a better spot, and retained my self respect. * I get that NOW 11 months out*.


What happened to the smart guy that wrote the above? It’s not too late. The only thing that would have held me back is money and now you say that it’s not a factor. Rock their world. The way things are you have nothing to lose and might gain a great deal.

I felt sorry for you because I thought you were in an impossible situation. Now that I know that money isn’t an issue I can understand your wife’s opinion of you. If you don’t take care of business you deserve the life you have.


----------



## happyman64

DESTROYED

If you read here long enough and listen to what people have to say you will realize a few things.

Logic does not apply to infidelity.

Common sense has no place here due to a WS's fog and selfishness.
Common sense does not apply here due to a BS being in shock and emotional strife.

Your selfish wife does not care how many trees you cut down nor how much income you brought in.

She only knows what her selfish thinking allows her to think.

Her husband is lazy.
Her husband is milking the unemployment and stay at home dad lifestyle.

She is justifying her affair because you are letting her.

Stop being a nice guy.

Before you can ever get your wife back, the one you love and married you have to be willing to lose her.

You have to break her selfish thinking. You have to make her see and feel what she is going to lose if you divorce her.

And she has to feel in her heart and head that you are serious.

That is why we say expose the affair to family.
That is why we say set your boundaries on your marriage and let her know the consequences if she breaks them.
That is why we say make her leave the marital home if she is not willing to agree to the mutual boundaries.

See an attorney to understand your rights and those of your kids.

Until you get serious, show your wife conditions on the marriage she will not take you seriously.

Now your wife might jump at this change and say you are right lets get divorced. 

You have to be strong enough to see this mess all the way through.

Right now you have a wife that has lied, cheated and does not respect you.

Why not show your wife what a man/husband looks like that respects himself.

No matter what happens to your marriage you and your kids will come out better for it.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

A job is just one of the things you need to do. Assuming you can't parlay what you have into a permanent source of income.

The fact is, she was porking porky before you lost your job.

Off hand, I can't think of one piece of advise you have accepted from this forum. Maybe your wife doesn't see you as something she can work with.

Did you read the MMSLP book linked to below? Have you read any of the books recommended?

Do you understand the reason ex affair partners have to go no contact, can't work together or be friends?

Many engineers have a problem interacting with people, do you?


----------



## Nucking Futs

OldWolf57 said:


> As I said, it's not about the job. Most women I know don't freaking care how, as long as it's legal and enough.
> And from the sound of it, not knowing your debts, you are doing damn good financially.
> 
> My wife is bedridden, but don't worry as long as the rentals bring it in.
> 
> It's about her respect for you for the way you handled this.
> 
> Hell, just tell her you are not getting a job from now on.* Your'e going to invest in more rentals, so she can stop using the job as an excuse to be a bit#h, cause you are self/employed from now on.*
> Heck, she may even be resentful of you doing so well financially but not forcing her to quit.
> 
> But are we ever going to know what really goes on in cheaters heads, or care ??


From one aspect, I agree with the bolded. If this marriage was healthy I'd say that's a great idea, jump on it. But it's not a healthy marriage, it's swirling around the drain. Using pre-marital assets like this will convert them to marital assets. He might as well just write her a check for half the value and be done with it.


----------



## G.J.

Hmmmm

Must have misread that Poster was going to sit down and lay it out with his wife


----------



## ArmyofJuan

destroyd said:


> Folks, you dont know me, nor my wife, nor all our history. I'm not saying you all are wrong- I'm starting to see the light now. Damn you can be a hard bunch- but I can take it. I appreciate the candor.


The names change but the story is always the same. So many have said exactly this when they hear things they don't like (I said it myself back in the day). 

How you and your WS are acting is textbook behavior. We know what works and what doesn't. The problem isn't getting her to change her behavior, it's to get you to change your's.

You will naturally do the right things once you change your attitude towards your W. The secret is getting your confidence back, knowing that you will be fine without her and taking control back of your life regardless of what she does. Stop caring about what she does and work on getting your sense of self back. When you've been with someone for so long your personality gets tied to the relationship so you have to get some emotional distance first before you can start seeing thing objectively without your feelings clouding your judgment.

If it doesn't work out with your W you will find someone else and you won't have any regrets. Most people that move on from a cheating spouse (at least that post here) end up much better for it.


----------



## turnera

destroyd said:


> Turnera, lets say you were layed off your primary job of 18 years, but your spouse was working, but you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage. You're telling me you would be taking the first ****ty job that came up- just so you'd be 'working'? And that your spouse ought not to respect that as income? I also brought a rental property into the marriage that we get payed rent on every month. I have been generating income. Actually more than twice what hers is. And there's more timber where that came from. Our bills arent going unpaid. We could live several years comfortably without missing a beat, but I'm getting the third and forth degree about not finding a job.


Well, there are two things going on here. One is that you're too scared to stand up to her and tell her you don't give a flip if she's uncomfortable with you sitting on your butt. No matter WHAT way you're getting income.

Two is that you are sitting on your butt. That is NEVER attractive in a man. It's in women's DNA to want a man who ACCOMPLISHES. Weekly, if not daily.

So, assuming you can over come your fear in #1, you can remove the problem in #2 by DOING something, even if it's not bringing in money. If you're making that much money, you could be doing any of a thousand things. First thing that comes to mind is taking some of that great money you're making and investing it in a second rental property. I know several people who have an incredible career buying/renting/selling properties. Which, of course, do require some work to maintain, do legal stuff, etc. A second thing that comes to mind is volunteering. Few people have the luxury to be able to volunteer more than one weekend a month - you could have a profound impact on some needy organization. And if you have kids with you, it's a phenomenal impact on them to see the benefit of volunteering, something they'll live with for the rest of their lives.


----------



## turnera

bfree said:


> So if money isn't an issue why is she still working there?


Yeah. I thought you said you HAD to let her stay there because she was the only one working and you couldn't do without the money.

Sounds like you're just scared to stand up to her.


----------



## OldWolf57

D, pay attention to what Nucking Futs said. You dont want to hand her pre-marital assets with this cloud over your marriage. But if the timber was still in the trust, and she is not, what's to stop the TRUST from getting an equity line on the next harvest. NOT the whole, just the harvest, and acquiring more R.E. ???

Not knowing your state trusts laws, but in my state, a trust can act and conduct business, thereby buying medical and dental plans in the conduct of said business.


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## Nucking Futs

OldWolf57 said:


> D, pay attention to what Nucking Futs said. You dont want to hand her pre-marital assets with this cloud over your marriage. But if the timber was still in the trust, and she is not, what's to stop the TRUST from getting an equity line on the next harvest. NOT the whole, just the harvest, and acquiring more R.E. ???
> 
> Not knowing your state trusts laws, but in my state, a trust can act and conduct business, thereby buying medical and dental plans in the conduct of said business.


I like this idea. I'd run it by both a trust attorney and a divorce attorney first but it seems like a pretty slick idea. :smthumbup:


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## terrence4159

It is stories like this why I very rarely ever reply on threads.......this is a horror movie.....every one thinks their movie is so different so unique......... It is the same old crap we have seen here 1000 times.

We yell at the TV not to go into the basement and the person always does. Your story here is nothing we haven't seen before but you think it is.


Why are you here asking for help but not doing anything everyone is telling you to do? If you have all the answers and we are all wrong why ask?


----------



## VFW

I am not going to tell you to divorce, that is a decision that only you can make. However, you know you have made mistakes and there is a lot of experience in this forum. Many of us learned this the hard way as well and hope that you can benefit from our hard knocks. The job is more about respect than dollars and cents. I guarantee you that every time someone casually asks what your husband does and she says unemployed and then feels compelled to explain what has happened, it is like pouring salt into the wound. Additionally, going without working at something for a year is not good for your resume either. Look to expand your horizons, is there something educationally that you could do to help improve your situation? While you are looking for a job, look to improve yourself in other ways as well, physically, mentally, socially. Also improve your communication skills, I know you are frustrated, but yelling is almost always counter productive. Learn to get your point across to others, while maintaining your cool. You are not responsible for her affair, but you can still look to improve you as much as you can as well.


----------



## ThePheonix

Assuming old D is being honest about his "side-line" income, have you folks thought the reason she's nagging him about going back to work as an employee is to get him out of the picture and at a safe distance where he ain't bird dogging her moves?


----------



## weightlifter

bandit.45 said:


> He could tell her *"I'm filing for divorce. I will ask for what is equitably mine and 50% custody of the kids. I want it to be a quiet, fair, amicable divorce. If you fight me, talk smack about me in public, or try to lay the blame for the failure of our marriage on my back...if I even here the smallest bit of gossip that you are talking trash about me...I will go full nuclear on your azz. I will inform you employer of what you and your boss did on company time with company assets, I will out you to our friends and family and make sure the entire community knows what a mean, cheating, nasty piece of work you are. I will tell everyone that you conceived another man's child and then conveniently miscarried.... I will make it my life's ambition to destroy you and lay waste your good reputation. You doubt? Try me....... Now, if you will just sign here please. "*


#sniffle. BEAUTIFUL. Simply beautiful.


----------



## weightlifter

Sigh. Wish we still had the rdmu and rtbp threads as this smells like a combo of those two. Throw in a little southside irish to the recipe.


----------



## ThePheonix

I think several people know the score Weightlifter. A computer game ain't real but its still fun to play.


----------



## lostmyreligion

turnera said:


> Well, there are two things going on here. One is that you're too scared to stand up to her and tell her you don't give a flip if she's uncomfortable with you sitting on your butt. No matter WHAT way you're getting income.
> 
> Two is that you are sitting on your butt. That is NEVER attractive in a man. *It's in women's DNA to want a man who ACCOMPLISHES. Weekly, if not daily.*
> 
> So, assuming you can over come your fear in #1, you can remove the problem in #2 by DOING something, even if it's not bringing in money. If you're making that much money, you could be doing any of a thousand things. First thing that comes to mind is taking some of that great money you're making and investing it in a second rental property. I know several people who have an incredible career buying/renting/selling properties. Which, of course, do require some work to maintain, do legal stuff, etc. A second thing that comes to mind is volunteering. Few people have the luxury to be able to volunteer more than one weekend a month - you could have a profound impact on some needy organization. And if you have kids with you, it's a phenomenal impact on them to see the benefit of volunteering, something they'll live with for the rest of their lives.


*Nothing insults a woman like a male body at rest.*

My Dad, happily married to the same woman for 50yrs, told me this.


----------



## ThePheonix

lostmyreligion said:


> *Nothing insults a woman like a male body at rest.*


That's the profound truth. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## sparrow555

I am curious on how you know she gave you complete details of her affair. Could you verify it against something like phone records or actual text messages instead of something like her word


----------



## sparrow555

turnera said:


> Two is that you are sitting on your butt. That is NEVER attractive in a man. It's in women's DNA to want a man who ACCOMPLISHES. Weekly, if not daily.



Did you read the post where he mentioned his sources of income ? They are not traditional jobs but he is making money.

Anyway, if you meant that he needed a conventional job, that was a pretty rude way of saying it.. And people are changing. Some men also expect their partners to work and contribute to the family


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## Dyokemm

"Did you read the post where he mentioned his sources of income ? They are not traditional jobs but he is making money."

Exactly.

If I was earning enough income off of investments or rental properties that I could essentially retire early but still provide my family with a good standard of living....and my W decided to use the fact that I didn't wake up and go into a traditional job every day as an excuse to cheat....I would tell her to get the f*ck out of my life....she doesn't deserve the standard of living or benefits of living with me or being part of my life.

Such a woman is a useless and disgusting waste of air IMO....what a bullsh*t excuse.


----------



## Mostlycontent

sparrow555 said:


> Did you read the post where he mentioned his sources of income ? They are not traditional jobs but he is making money.
> 
> Anyway, if you meant that he needed a conventional job, that was a pretty rude way of saying it.. And people are changing. Some men also expect their partners to work and contribute to the family


That is a bit ridiculous, isn't it? So now making a good living isn't enough, you have to do what everybody else does and be gone all day, toil in the fields, as it were, in order for your spouse to be happy with you. That's such nonsense.

If you have no income, then I get it, but if you're providing a comfortable standard of living then WTF.

I did the daily grind for 25 years but now have an online sales business that doesn't require near the hours I worked "back in the day". It's a 24/7 365 day a year deal that doesn't require my continued supervision. Funny thing is that I make twice as much as I used to make while working about half the time. Imagine that.


----------



## bandit.45

lostmyreligion said:


> *Nothing insults a woman like a male body at rest.*
> 
> My Dad, happily married to the same woman for 50yrs, told me this.


I dunno. I've cut trees and processed timber....

That's pretty hardass work. Don't see how you could do anything much more masculine.

I think she is using his unemployment as an excuse to justify her emotional disconnect. It's convenient. It's a snow job. She's stonewalling him in the worst and most abusive way.


----------



## turnera

sparrow555 said:


> Did you read the post where he mentioned his sources of income ? They are not traditional jobs but he is making money.
> 
> Anyway, if you meant that he needed a conventional job, that was a pretty rude way of saying it.. And people are changing. Some men also expect their partners to work and contribute to the family


Did you read the part where I said he just needed to be DOING something, even if it's not earning income? I suggested volunteering, for one. 

If a woman's working a full time job, leaving home, and coming home and seeing her man sitting on the couch watching tv, surfing the web, or playing a video game, she WILL get fed up. Just like a husband would if all the woman does is sit at home all day or go shopping or the like. 

It's very likely not about the money, but about the leisure time, as some have alluded to.

Well, that and that he lets her harangue him, which quickly turns off women's respect for a man.


----------



## ThePheonix

Come on guys. This woman is riding his azz about a job to keep larger issue primed up and within reach: to ditch him when the time is right and to keep him feeling guilty in order to control of him in the meantime. She's de-balled old D already to the point he actually understands why she ain't giving him any. 
She knows no matter how much money he makes doing his own thing it ain't ever going to be enough because money ain't what its about to begin with. She keeping it set up so she can use her "anger and disappointment" later to bring up what's really she really wants; jettisoning him.. In the meantime, if she can nag him into getting a job, he won't be able to keep an eye on her like he can now. 
She's been his future ex-wife for a while now. It will be interesting to know how long after she gets her MBA before she pulls the plug.


----------



## sparrow555

Mostlycontent said:


> That is a bit ridiculous, isn't it? So now making a good living isn't enough, you have to do what everybody else does and be gone all day, toil in the fields, as it were, in order for your spouse to be happy with you. That's such nonsense.
> 
> If you have no income, then I get it, but if you're providing a comfortable standard of living then WTF.
> 
> I did the daily grind for 25 years but now have an online sales business that doesn't require near the hours I worked "back in the day". It's a 24/7 365 day a year deal that doesn't require my continued supervision. Funny thing is that I make twice as much as I used to make while working about half the time. Imagine that.



No, I just meant to ask if that is what she meant...


----------



## sparrow555

turnera said:


> Did you read the part where I said he just needed to be DOING something, even if it's not earning income? I suggested volunteering, for one.
> 
> If a woman's working a full time job, leaving home, and coming home and seeing her man sitting on the couch watching tv, surfing the web, or playing a video game, she WILL get fed up. Just like a husband would if all the woman does is sit at home all day or go shopping or the like.
> 
> It's very likely not about the money, but about the leisure time, as some have alluded to.
> 
> Well, that and that he lets her harangue him, which quickly turns off women's respect for a man.



That is not gender specific I believe. A lazy partner is unattractive. How is it relevant to the situation?

Where did OP mention he was not doing anything ? His first post



> I have been taking care of our children, handling all school duties for them, keeping them fulltime right now, all of the shopping, doctor & dentist appts, all of the cooking, cleaning, much of the laundry, keeping an acre yard, all of the maintenance, keeping up a rental property that we own, and taking care of many animals that our family has- 9 cats, 3 dogs, rabbits, turtles, and several fish aquariums, and also taking care of my wife's elderly mother at times- buying her groceries, Dr appointments, ER visits in the middle of the night, helping her keep her living area clean. My wife studys for her degree much of the time, and I have to keep the kids entertained and give her peace and quiet. She is also trying to lose weight, and spends a large amount of time on the treadmill. I swear that I am doing all I can, but its more than one person can manage- its a large house, and its a ton of work to keep things straight with the kids and animals constantly making messes. Her attitude is since I am not working a job, the house should be spotless. Wife complains about everything I do. Seems I can do nothing right. If I try to do one thing for myself, hobbies, interests, friends, she attacks me with 'why aren't you looking for a job instead?'.


----------



## Nucking Futs

bandit.45 said:


> I dunno. I've cut trees and processed timber....
> 
> That's pretty hardass work. Don't see how you could do anything much more masculine.
> 
> I think she is using his unemployment as an excuse to justify her emotional disconnect. It's convenient. It's a snow job. She's stonewalling him in the worst and most abusive way.


Agree with the first part, that is hardass work. But I'm pretty sure he didn't actually cut or process any of that timber. I'm pretty sure he sold it and a logging crew came in and cut and processed what he sold, so it's something he could mostly do on his couch, with maybe a couple of trips out to the property to mark the trees he wants cut or kept. If he didn't care to save certain trees he could have done the whole thing over the phone just giving them coordinates for a starting point and vectors from there.


----------



## bandit.45

Nucking Futs said:


> Agree with the first part, that is hardass work. But I'm pretty sure he didn't actually cut or process any of that timber. I'm pretty sure he sold it and a logging crew came in and cut and processed what he sold, so it's something he could mostly do on his couch, with maybe a couple of trips out to the property to mark the trees he wants cut or kept. If he didn't care to save certain trees he could have done the whole thing over the phone just giving them coordinates for a starting point and vectors from there.


He made it sound like he was the one who did it, or I read it wrong.


----------



## Archangel2

Destroyd - You've been given some great advice here. I hope you develop a game plan for the trying times ahead and stick to it. I hope you do not remain in analysis paralysis. 

I just wanted to add a few ideas. You had stated that you did not want to get "any old job" just to be employed. I agree. If, as I understand, you are in engineering (what field?), then I think you need to be willing to move to where the jobs are. You need to network. Are you using LinkedIn? Since that has become the tool of choice for headhunters, you can leverage your work experience and your timber and real estate management experience to your advantage. You could even set up your timber and real estate interests as LLC companies and name yourself as CEO (think how that would look on LinkedIn!). I know any potential separation from your wife would have a short term negative affect on your children, but consider the alternative: long term unemployment is soul crushing. It will only destroy your mental health. Better to have a happy, healthy dad who sees the kids up to 50% of the time than an unemployed, stay at home dad who will eventually need psychiatric care.

And just one more note. I retired from a Fortune 500 Corporation that had a strong ethics code that was constantly policed. Perhaps your wife works for a company that also has an ethics code (many mid-size and larger companies do). If you have any evidence, I would out her and her boss to the company's ethics watchdog. It would be interesting to see the fallout from that.

I wish you peace and justice.


----------



## happyman64

lostmyreligion said:


> *Nothing insults a woman like a male body at rest.*
> 
> My Dad, happily married to the same woman for 50yrs, told me this.


This is so true I wish I could like it a thousand times.


----------



## Nucking Futs

bandit.45 said:


> He made it sound like he was the one who did it, or I read it wrong.


I just re-read it and he said "we cut and processed" so I can see how you read it that way, it's pretty logical. Considering he made $150k from it I doubt he cut it himself. 

Here's what he said "...you cut timber on your timber land- land that was deeded to you by your grandmother when you were a kid that you've been managing for the last 25 years- and the payout was 150k in a lump sum. I didnt win the lottery, that is income by my hand, from assets I brought into the marriage."

Bottom line, either "by my hand" means his hand on the phone making the arrangements or he personally cut and processed enough lumber to bring in $150k. Considering the cerebral nature of his previous line of work I'm thinking that much logging would have put him in a hospital. Not to mention that if he was going out, felling and processing the lumber himself there would have been no chance of his wife pushing him to get a job. 

Unless we're talking about a lot full of veneer logs, that's a different ball game.


----------



## Vulcan2013

Archangel2 said:


> Destroyd - You've been given some great advice here. I hope you develop a game plan for the trying times ahead and stick to it. I hope you do not remain in analysis paralysis.
> 
> I just wanted to add a few ideas. You had stated that you did not want to get "any old job" just to be employed. I agree. If, as I understand, you are in engineering (what field?), then I think you need to be willing to move to where the jobs are. You need to network. Are you using LinkedIn? Since that has become the tool of choice for headhunters, you can leverage your work experience and your timber and real estate management experience to your advantage. *You could even set up your timber and real estate interests as LLC companies and name yourself as CEO (think how that would look on LinkedIn!).* I know any potential separation from your wife would have a short term negative affect on your children, but consider the alternative: long term unemployment is soul crushing. It will only destroy your mental health. Better to have a happy, healthy dad who sees the kids up to 50% of the time than an unemployed, stay at home dad who will eventually need psychiatric care.
> 
> And just one more note. I retired from a Fortune 500 Corporation that had a strong ethics code that was constantly policed. Perhaps your wife works for a company that also has an ethics code (many mid-size and larger companies do). If you have any evidence, I would out her and her boss to the company's ethics watchdog. It would be interesting to see the fallout from that.
> 
> I wish you peace and justice.


Agree with most of this, but it looks silly to list yourself as "CEO" of a one man LLC. "Owner" is more common, and accurate. 

D - what's your game plan?


----------



## Dyokemm

"Just like a husband would if all the woman does is sit at home all day or go shopping or the like."

Well...maybe women are different....but this NEVER bothered me.

If the sh*t around the house that she said she was taking care of was being done, it has never bothered me at all if she was enjoying her free time however she wanted....and yes a couple of my relationships have been with SAHM's who worked part time from home.

OP has said that he has been taking care of the kids and the home front since he has been laid off....WHILE providing income through the rental property and now the timber from his inherited land.

Sounds like pure jealousy if this bothers his WW.....and maybe THAT is the difference.

It never bothered me that I had to get up and go to work while my partner got to sleep in or worked more casually from home.

I was happy for her to have such an easy and relaxed way to get through life and still be comfortable.

OP's WW is full of sh*t....kick her traitorous, cheating a** to the curb OP...she doesn't deserve what you bring to the table, because regardless of what crap she throws out...you ARE providing for your family's well being.

F*ck her.


----------



## destroyd

Timber management is no different than finance or stocks. You manage it, grow trees, harvest, and sell. No, I dont physically cut and process like a lumberjack. It is a comany, and I am the owner. I dont have enough timber land to make it a full time job, but its not insignificant either. 

Wife knows she murdered the marriage. She knows that. Her attitude is sort of like, well, I ****ed that up so bad that he will never love or trust me again like I want to be loved or trusted so just **** it all. Yet, for whatever reason is in her head- probably her fear of exposure to her family, her fear of being fired from her job, and her not wanting to accept that she has done this to her family after growing up in a family that was destroyed by infidelity herself she will not actually leave the marriage. 

She truly respects no one. Not her dad, her mom, my mom, no one. She thinks she is smarter than everyone else. She possibly does respect OM, as he has ALL the power. He has all the power at her job. He calls the shots. She has to do what he says. He is single and doesnt have to put up with her ****. That probably is attractive to her, same as I was when I was single and had a good job before we were married. But she thinks she is smarter than him too. Let her try real life with him- tie him to a big mortgage, take all he earns and tie it up in a family, let her see him scratch his ass unshaven in his underwear, and slaving his ass off to do all the **** a family requires and he will lose his shine and she will eat him for lunch as well. There are some things she said that leads me to believe she had already figured out she didnt want a future with him- but the deal went down, she got caught, ****ed our marriage to hell and back for me. 

Enter the dynamic after he got what he wanted and ****ed her. Now, she has some power. She could cry harrassment and **** him over- and he knows it- so now HE has to handle her with kid gloves. He still has the power, but he knows hes got a situation there. Shes enjoying her power over him too. 

I dunno what happened, but after D-day, and some TT, she came around and wanted to fix things. My take is he was not willing to take her on full time, and that threw her. Maybe she is still trying to reel him in, with all the exercise and sharpening her looks. 

We were living in a situation where we were living for the kids and our jobs. We had lost our connection. A lot of **** came our way, and she couldnt hack it and checked out of the marriage. Hell, I wasnt having fun either, but when the chips are down, you hunker down and endure it- together. I thought thats what we were doing- until I discovered her alternate little life she was leading. 

As much as I wanted to hurt her like she hurt me after d-day, I'm not a vengeful person. No matter what else shes the mother of my kids and I'll be tied to her forever because of it. If she doesnt feel anything for me, then I'd rather split as amicably as possible instead of making it a war. Its not gonna make a whole lot of difference who files on who. That being said, I'd rather be in the drivers seat. I just havent reached that point where I dont wanna see my kids every day yet. I'm strong. I'll be allright without her. I'm just not one to act rashly. And, this **** hurts.


----------



## bfree

Do you think once she finishes her degree and/or gets a promotion she'll keep you around? Simple question. Honest answer.


----------



## jsmart

destroyd said:


> Timber management is no different than finance or stocks. You manage it, grow trees, harvest, and sell. No, I dont physically cut and process like a lumberjack. It is a comany, and I am the owner. *I dont have enough timber land to make it a full time job, but its not insignificant either*.
> 
> Wife knows she murdered the marriage. She knows that. Her attitude is sort of like, well, I ****ed that up so bad that he will never love or trust me again like I want to be loved or trusted so just **** it all. Yet, for whatever reason is in her head- probably her fear of exposure to her family, her fear of being fired from her job, and her not wanting to accept that she has done this to her family after growing up in a family that was destroyed by infidelity herself she will not actually leave the marriage.
> 
> She truly respects no one. Not her dad, her mom, my mom, no one. She thinks she is smarter than everyone else. She possibly does respect OM, as he has ALL the power. He has all the power at her job. He calls the shots. She has to do what he says. He is single and doesnt have to put up with her ****. That probably is attractive to her, same as I was when I was single and had a good job before we were married. But she thinks she is smarter than him too. Let her try real life with him- tie him to a big mortgage, take all he earns and tie it up in a family, let her see him scratch his ass unshaven in his underwear, and slaving his ass off to do all the **** a family requires and he will lose his shine and she will eat him for lunch as well. There are some things she said that leads me to believe she had already figured out she didnt want a future with him- but the deal went down, she got caught, ****ed our marriage to hell and back for me.
> 
> Enter the dynamic after he got what he wanted and ****ed her. Now, she has some power. She could cry harrassment and **** him over- and he knows it- so now HE has to handle her with kid gloves. He still has the power, but he knows hes got a situation there. Shes enjoying her power over him too.
> 
> I dunno what happened, but after D-day, and some TT, she came around and wanted to fix things. My take is he was not willing to take her on full time, and that threw her. Maybe she is still trying to reel him in, with all the exercise and sharpening her looks.
> 
> We were living in a situation where we were living for the kids and our jobs. We had lost our connection. A lot of **** came our way, and she couldnt hack it and checked out of the marriage. Hell, I wasnt having fun either, but when the chips are down, you hunker down and endure it- together. I thought thats what we were doing- until I discovered her alternate little life she was leading.
> 
> As much as I wanted to hurt her like she hurt me after d-day, I'm not a vengeful person. No matter what else shes the mother of my kids and I'll be tied to her forever because of it. If she doesnt feel anything for me, then I'd rather split as amicably as possible instead of making it a war. Its not gonna make a whole lot of difference who files on who. That being said, I'd rather be in the drivers seat. I just havent reached that point where I dont wanna see my kids every day yet. I'm strong. I'll be allright without her. I'm just not one to act rashly. And, this **** hurts.


This POS that she sees and must obey daily is a sharp contrast to Mr Mom. At work she she submits to a strong man then comes home to a lazy husband that she can talk down to. We know you do a lot but I've read of too many SAHD on here and other sites that loose their wives respect. Your situation is compounded by the fact that she's going to school to better and improve herself. She must loose more respect for you every time she has to struggle with work and school. 

If you don't want to relocate for a job or you're just done with engineering, then working the lumber income into another or several businesses. Are you sure you can't grow your lumber into something bigger. You have to be willing to take risk and think outside the box.

One thing is for sure, she has to quit that job if you want to save this marriage. You have to build yourself up to the point that she can trust that your still the rock of the family. You also need to give her a sliver of hope that she can be restored. Not talking rug sweeping but she has to see some hope that if she puts in the work, the marriage and family can be restored.


----------



## destroyd

Yes, I know that I have not been the model of a strong take charge husband. I have shown weakness since this all happened. Everything going down like it did overwhealmed me. I shut down for a period of time, and it was a chore to just get through the day. I most likely had a breakdown event- all by myself. I had significant severance pay, some inheritance, and also knew I had timber that could be cut. Yes, if a good job had become available, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. I looked, and have been looking. It has not materialized. You all are telling me if you had money stacked up in the bank, and everything else I have been dealing with, you would be out bagging groceries in order to say you have a job, and are being productive? Thats bull****- and the ones of you that are honest know it. Now, I have let the dynamic slide too far to that side and I'm seriously behind the 8 ball. Only thing that will begin to fix this is her away from OM, and me find a good job making more money than she does again. 

I'm telling you my wife is one of those kind of people who is never satisfied. Took 15 years to find that out, but its the truth. We had a good life going on. Nice house, good health, precious children- but it wasnt enough for her. We had difficulties yeah, but she decided she wasnt happy before she ****ed her boss. Her affair to her is the symptom of what happened, and she will not shoulder the entire blame for it. While the affair to me is the issue. She had unrealistic expectations of what marriage should be from the get-go. I worked my ass off making a good living and basically turned my paycheck over to her for the last 12 years. We did everything she wanted to do that our combined salaries could afford- my wishes were secondary. I drove 10 year old piece of **** cars while she drove the new one. I let go all my hobbies except for small things I could carry on with cause there was no money for me- everything went to the house and family. I worked all week long commuting to my job and then all weekend trying to keep our big lawn landscaped because we couldnt afford to have it done. We bit off more than we could chew with a large home and the bills that go along with it. We should have planned more for the future, and downsized our home. We were struggling with all that, and she couldnt see it. She wanted another kid, and a swimming pool, and more expensive vacations like some of her rich facebook friends. Damn facebook to hell. We were struggling with that when my mother fell ill, and died, then I lost my job, and then discovered her lengthy 'work spouse' affair. 

11 months out, we are just beginning to be able to pick up the pieces from this tragic bunch of ****. I appreciate all your insights.


----------



## RClawson

Destoyd,

Just read this thread and I honestly cannot understand why you are still here. What is it that you are looking for at this point. I understand the plight of the unemployed engineer more than anyone can know but at this point why don't you quit wallowing in your self pity and go and find a job........................anywhere? That is about the most manly thing that you could do at this point. After you do this then see where the chips fall but for God's sake get on with it.


----------



## kristin2349

destroyd said:


> Yes, I know that I have not been the model of a strong take charge husband. *I have shown weakness since this all happened. Everything going down like it did overwhealmed me. I shut down for a period of time, and it was a chore to just get through the day. I most likely had a breakdown event- all by myself. I had significant severance pay, some inheritance, and also knew I had timber that could be cut. Yes, if a good job had become available, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. I looked, and have been looking. It has not materialized. You all are telling me if you had money stacked up in the bank, and everything else I have been dealing with, you would be out bagging groceries in order to say you have a job, and are being productive? Thats bull****- and the ones of you that are honest know it.* Now, I have let the dynamic slide too far to that side and I'm seriously behind the 8 ball. Only thing that will begin to fix this is her away from OM, and me find a good job making more money than she does again.
> 
> I'm telling you my wife is one of those kind of people who is never satisfied. Took 15 years to find that out, but its the truth. We had a good life going on. Nice house, good health, precious children- but it wasnt enough for her. We had difficulties yeah, but she decided she wasnt happy before she ****ed her boss. Her affair to her is the symptom of what happened, and she will not shoulder the entire blame for it. While the affair to me is the issue. She had unrealistic expectations of what marriage should be from the get-go. I worked my ass off making a good living and basically turned my paycheck over to her for the last 12 years. We did everything she wanted to do that our combined salaries could afford- my wishes were secondary. I drove 10 year old piece of **** cars while she drove the new one. I let go all my hobbies except for small things I could carry on with cause there was no money for me- everything went to the house and family. I worked all week long commuting to my job and then all weekend trying to keep our big lawn landscaped because we couldnt afford to have it done. We bit off more than we could chew with a large home and the bills that go along with it. We should have planned more for the future, and downsized our home. We were struggling with all that, and she couldnt see it. She wanted another kid, and a swimming pool, and more expensive vacations like some of her rich facebook friends. Damn facebook to hell. We were struggling with that when my mother fell ill, and died, then I lost my job, and then discovered her lengthy 'work spouse' affair.
> 
> 11 months out, we are just beginning to be able to pick up the pieces from this tragic bunch of ****. I appreciate all your insights.


Destroyd:

This is the first thing that you have posted that gives me hope that you at least get it. I bolded the part I can relate to personally. When I found out my Ex H cheated, I kind of checked out. I was fortunate to be able to. I had no financial concerns and plenty of passive income to rely on. I've never had to work a normal job. BUT, I am a female so no one has ever questioned it. So I was able to lick my wounds for as long as I wanted without having to get my crap together to go to work. It was a blessing and a curse. For the first month it was probably best that I was able to just not deal with the stress of work. The curse of it was I had the time to think about it way too much.

I ultimately decided to divorce. My situation was much cleaner than yours no children, no money issues, he cheated and I knew I'd never trust him again. I don't envy you your position. But I understand the dynamic a bit more now.

You have been doing things on her terms for her benefit for way too long. You have been jumping through hoops to keep her happy, that wasn't enough. With people like her nothing is ever enough, because in their eyes someone else has more. You sound like you have been a [email protected] good husband and she just crapped on that, and may still be doing so. I hope you are able to find a way to turn this around. You are at least sifting through it all and looking closely at it all so that is a good start.


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## jsmart

destroyd said:


> Yes, I know that I have not been the model of a strong take charge husband. I have shown weakness since this all happened. Everything going down like it did overwhealmed me. I shut down for a period of time, and it was a chore to just get through the day. I most likely had a breakdown event- all by myself. I had significant severance pay, some inheritance, and also knew I had timber that could be cut. Yes, if a good job had become available, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. I looked, and have been looking. It has not materialized. You all are telling me if you had money stacked up in the bank, and everything else I have been dealing with, you would be out bagging groceries in order to say you have a job, and are being productive? Thats bull****- and the ones of you that are honest know it. Now, I have let the dynamic slide too far to that side and I'm seriously behind the 8 ball. Only thing that will begin to fix this is her away from OM, and me find a good job making more money than she does again.
> 
> I'm telling you my wife is one of those kind of people who is never satisfied. Took 15 years to find that out, but its the truth. We had a good life going on. Nice house, good health, precious children- but it wasnt enough for her. We had difficulties yeah, but she decided she wasnt happy before she ****ed her boss. Her affair to her is the symptom of what happened, and she will not shoulder the entire blame for it. While the affair to me is the issue. She had unrealistic expectations of what marriage should be from the get-go. I worked my ass off making a good living and basically turned my paycheck over to her for the last 12 years. We did everything she wanted to do that our combined salaries could afford- my wishes were secondary. I drove 10 year old piece of **** cars while she drove the new one. I let go all my hobbies except for small things I could carry on with cause there was no money for me- everything went to the house and family. I worked all week long commuting to my job and then all weekend trying to keep our big lawn landscaped because we couldnt afford to have it done. We bit off more than we could chew with a large home and the bills that go along with it. We should have planned more for the future, and downsized our home. We were struggling with all that, and she couldnt see it. She wanted another kid, and a swimming pool, and more expensive vacations like some of her rich facebook friends. Damn facebook to hell. We were struggling with that when my mother fell ill, and died, then I lost my job, and then discovered her lengthy 'work spouse' affair.
> 
> 11 months out, we are just beginning to be able to pick up the pieces from this tragic bunch of ****. I appreciate all your insights.


The cards that you've been dealt in the past year suck. But if you want to some how make this work, you'll need to change the defeatist attitude. I imagine that the tone which with you write here is how you interact with your wife. 

Remember that, political correctness aside, women want a strong confident man that she can submit to. Right now she's spending 40 hours a week submitting to her hopefully former AP. She looks up to him. To her, he's a smart take charge guy. Not doing real life with him, she can let her imagination blow up this guy in her head to super husband material. Doesn't matter that he's not going to marry an older divorcee with another man's kids. Logic never seeped into a fogged up WW.

Now contrast that with you. Due to all you've gone through, you're a broken spirited man, spending the day doing woman's work. She thinks your lazy and that she has to do everything. I'm telling you, that is what she sees. A woman will over look things for a short time but the sympathy well runs dry quickly. It doesn't matter if she's a significant cause of your brokeness. 

Woman are emotional creatures that follow their feelings and right now her feelings are running hot for POS and she's disgusted of you. That's why she cut you off sexually. To change things you must first concentrate on fixing you. Once you get your mojo back, then you can win her back.


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## Dyokemm

"She possibly does respect OM, as he has ALL the power. He has all the power at her job. He calls the shots."

Well you could have blown this little image up and exposed POSOM for the disgusting worm he is....all you would have had to do is confront the scumbag and tell him he better never talk to your WW again or his career will be over when you deliver the A evidence to HR.....a boss f*cking a subordinate is almost always a termination.

I would bet money your WW's respectful image of this turd would have evaporated as he scurried away like the ****roach he is....and you would have looked like a BH who would not be putting up with any more crap from her as well.

Instead, you did nothing....he looks even more like a powerful champ to her....and you look like a doormat who can't even muster the strength to fight for his own M and family.

The thing is OP.....you can STILL confront the POS and sent him running...and at the same time send notice to your WW that you could blow her perfect little reputation and life to h*ll also.

That might get her attention enough to pull her head out of her a** and start really doing some work to save your M and family.

Put this POS on notice that he might want to start looking for a new job....and that he is better off doing it now while he has good references and a decent reputation then after you go to HR and wreck his career like he has wrecked your family.

And expose your WW to both your families and all friends ASAP....along with the message that you are no longer sure you want to stay in the M since she is unremorseful and doesn't seem to want to do what is necessary to save her family after all the damage she has caused.

Wake your WW and this POS up to the consequences of what they have done.


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## weightlifter

Destroyd. Been in your situation. Try the eng spec temp agencies. Got a month contract last summer. That led me to... Just finishing up a nine month contract. 3 of the pm's took my info as all want to take me to their next assignments cause they love my work. Not perfect but it's real pay for real work.


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## scatty

Women don't respect men who give them everything, do what they want to do and dictate the household. She wants you to take the initiative. Get any job, really! Also pick up "Surviving An Affair." I think I responded earlier in this thread, but that is my advice now. SAHDs don't get the respect they deserve, most women would be resentful. Not fair, but that's how I see it.


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## turnera

destroyd said:


> You all are telling me if you had money stacked up in the bank, and everything else I have been dealing with, you would be out bagging groceries in order to say you have a job, and are being productive? Thats bull****- and the ones of you that are honest know it.


FTR, that's not what I said. I said you need to get OFF THE COUCH and DO something, and then suggested either building a business on rentals (not particularly high intensity work) or else volunteering somewhere. If you're not willing to do that, then at LEAST start filling your day with SOMEthing other than sitting in front of a computer or a video game or a tv. I don't know what you do with your time, but it's pretty obvious SHE sees you doing nothing.

If you're intent of keeping this marriage, just understand that women will NOT respect a man who doesn't accomplish SOMEthing.


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## ThePheonix

What he needs to do Turnera is to stop all attempts to jump through hoops to please this spoiled, self-absorbed, cheating, harpy. Both you and I know that if she this little or no respect for him as a man, after all this time, ain't no job he's going to find that's going to change it. Like D said, she ain't got no respect of anybody. Her personality is carved in stone and he's going to be in hell as long as she's around. Trust me on this.


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## turnera

I agree, but she is who he seems to want. Therefore...


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## OldWolf57

You just gave a better insight D.
Forget all that job sh#t and everything else. Just forget it.
It's still all about her !!!!

Dude, PAY ATTENTION this time. You are a STAY AT HOME DAD !! The PRIMARY caregiver for your kids. Divorcing her should give you primary custody and child support. Hell, maybe even alimony.
Your hand couldn't be any stronger!

You lost her respect years ago when you let her make all the decisions. AND you already know she is NEVER satisfied, you sitting or working will make no difference.
This is the fallout maybe coming a little sooner than she wanted, but man it was coming.

We keep telling you and telling you.
So pay attention. 
1. You are the PRIMARY caregiver.
2. She lost respect and love for you long ago.
3. She had an affair on the job with her boss, on COMPANY time and property.
4. You have the evidence to support she had the affair and with who.
5. You have the power to destroy her and his career.
6. Your rationalization not taking action is fear of not seeing your kids everyday.

So OK, have I got that right?? I think so.
But what I don't see is where you would see not seeing your kids if you are the PRIMARY caregiver an a SAHD.
What I'm seeing is a man who KNOWS he would get custody if there is a D, but is still grasping at straws that he can keep her, and she is doing all she can trying to make him kick her out.

You know on here we say their actions not words, well she is not even giving you lip service or sex.
Her words are cutting, and the sex, well you know where that is.
So do you really see her changing and being a better wife than she's been for 15 years???
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with her running this marriage.
D, she is showing you RIGHT NOW, that she may stay, but she won't bend to you !!!
She is showing you that if you want sex and niceness, it goes back to the way it was before, with her as queen bee.

That's why we keep telling you to get out of limbo, by filing and making her sh#t or get off the pot.
YOU have the power to make or break this one way or the other, but this dragging it out never works.

On a side note. Remember as a kid, and feeling something wasn't right, well your kids feel these things to.
They may not know what, but it's there and they sense it.
And if it wasn't plain, in a D, you should be getting primary custody sitting where you are now.


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## OldWolf57

Forgot to mention. You don't sound too attached to the house, so telling her you guys are downsizing should be telling if that's what you want.


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## jsmart

turnera said:


> FTR, that's not what I said. I said you need to get OFF THE COUCH and DO something, and then suggested either building a business on rentals (not particularly high intensity work) or else volunteering somewhere. If you're not willing to do that, then at LEAST start filling your day with SOMEthing other than sitting in front of a computer or a video game or a tv. I don't know what you do with your time, but it's pretty obvious *SHE sees you doing nothing.
> *
> If you're intent of keeping this marriage, just understand that *women will NOT respect a man who doesn't accomplish* SOMEthing.


18 years at the same job has made D complacent. Now out of work for 11 months, he's taken on the role of SAHD. I'm sure he chose stability at same company over opportunity else where over the years for his family's sake but a wife like his just saw a boring complacent slug.

I'm sure when they first met, to a mid 20s girl, he came across as a smart, hard working man who had his **** together. Now as a late 30s wife and mother of 2, she is seeing OP through different eyes, especially after giving herself to a younger but in her eyes more dynamic man. Her expectations have changed. It's given her a hunger for something more. She's working full time while going for her MBA then comes home to SAHD. Very few women can tolerate that and she's obviously not one of them. 

Now the answer is NOT for D to take any job. I agree that's bull **** but he either parlays his lumber business into something bigger or invest some lumber money to start another business. He has to get himself out of this rut. Working 18 years in a specialized field, he has pigeonholed himself. Being out of the field for 11 months, especially at 48, it'll take herculean effort to get back in. He'll have more success putting that engineer's brain to use running his own business.

OP is not confident because he is not meeting his own standards of manliness, let alone his wife's. If he can reach deep inside to tap into what gave him the ability to get an engineering degree many decades ago, he can start something new that will ignite something in him. If she doesn't come along for the ride, so be it. He still have to rebuild himself for himself. I'm sure if he looks within himself, he'll see that being a SAHD is not who OP wants to be.


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## just got it 55

jsmart said:


> 18 years at the same job has made D complacent. Now out of work for 11 months, he's taken on the role of SAHD. I'm sure he chose stability at same company over opportunity else where over the years for his family's sake but a wife like his just saw a boring complacent slug.
> 
> I'm sure when they first met, to a mid 20s girl, he came across as a smart, hard working man who had his **** together. Now as a late 30s wife and mother of 2, she is seeing OP through different eyes, especially after giving herself to a younger but in her eyes more dynamic man. Her expectations have changed. It's given her a hunger for something more. She's working full time while going for her MBA then comes home to SAHD. Very few women can tolerate that and she's obviously not one of them.
> 
> Now the answer is NOT for D to take any job. I agree that's bull **** but he either parlays his lumber business into something bigger or invest some lumber money to start another business. He has to get himself out of this rut. Working 18 years in a specialized field, he has pigeonholed himself. Being out of the field for 11 months, especially at 48, it'll take herculean effort to get back in. He'll have more success putting that engineer's brain to use running his own business.
> 
> OP is not confident because he is not meeting his own standards of manliness, let alone his wife's. If he can reach deep inside to tap into what gave him the ability to get an engineering degree many decades ago, he can start something new that will ignite something in him. If she doesn't come along for the ride, so be it. He still have to rebuild himself for himself. I'm sure if he looks within himself, he'll see that being a SAHD is not who OP wants to be.


Perfect Post

55


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## destroyd

Yes, you ****ing nailed it. Thats exactly how I FEEL.


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## jsmart

destroyd said:


> Yes, you ****ing nailed it. Thats exactly how I FEEL.


We're not here to make you feel bad or to ridicule you. Many on this board have unfortunately been in situations that were similarly painful. We offer some insight that you in your fogged up state are not able to see. Yes, the betray suffer a similar clouded thinking state.

Change can be scary especially when you're older but it's necessary. You can and must renew yourself. The time of wallowing in self pity is over. 

1. Start working out. HARD. Resistance & cardio.
2. Improve your fashion. I'm not necessarily talking suits, but look well put together.
3. Get a good quality haircut and make sure your facial hair is a good match for your face.
4. Hygiene. Make sure you're clean and smell good.

These 4 steps will boost your confidence so you can start to see new possibilities for yourself. It will also instill a little dread on your wife's part as she starts to wonder, what's he up to. She has to see that you're not going to just lay on your back showing your belly in submission. She's tired of your words. She will only respond to action.

I also recommend you buy Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life. A great book that can help you.


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## Sports Fan

OldWolf57 said:


> You just gave a better insight D.
> Forget all that job sh#t and everything else. Just forget it.
> It's still all about her !!!!
> 
> Dude, PAY ATTENTION this time. You are a STAY AT HOME DAD !! The PRIMARY caregiver for your kids. Divorcing her should give you primary custody and child support. Hell, maybe even alimony.
> Your hand couldn't be any stronger!
> 
> You lost her respect years ago when you let her make all the decisions. AND you already know she is NEVER satisfied, you sitting or working will make no difference.
> This is the fallout maybe coming a little sooner than she wanted, but man it was coming.
> 
> We keep telling you and telling you.
> So pay attention.
> 1. You are the PRIMARY caregiver.
> 2. She lost respect and love for you long ago.
> 3. She had an affair on the job with her boss, on COMPANY time and property.
> 4. You have the evidence to support she had the affair and with who.
> 5. You have the power to destroy her and his career.
> 6. Your rationalization not taking action is fear of not seeing your kids everyday.
> 
> So OK, have I got that right?? I think so.
> But what I don't see is where you would see not seeing your kids if you are the PRIMARY caregiver an a SAHD.
> What I'm seeing is a man who KNOWS he would get custody if there is a D, but is still grasping at straws that he can keep her, and she is doing all she can trying to make him kick her out.
> 
> You know on here we say their actions not words, well she is not even giving you lip service or sex.
> Her words are cutting, and the sex, well you know where that is.
> So do you really see her changing and being a better wife than she's been for 15 years???
> Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with her running this marriage.
> D, she is showing you RIGHT NOW, that she may stay, but she won't bend to you !!!
> She is showing you that if you want sex and niceness, it goes back to the way it was before, with her as queen bee.
> 
> That's why we keep telling you to get out of limbo, by filing and making her sh#t or get off the pot.
> YOU have the power to make or break this one way or the other, but this dragging it out never works.
> 
> On a side note. Remember as a kid, and feeling something wasn't right, well your kids feel these things to.
> They may not know what, but it's there and they sense it.
> And if it wasn't plain, in a D, you should be getting primary custody sitting where you are now.


Couldn't agree more. I have been trying to tell him from the get go. He holds some real power here.

Stay at home dad equals possible custody, child support and alimony.

Wake up my friend. See a lawyer for some much needed advice file and snap her back into reality.

Then if she wants to reconcile sort out a new arrangement on your terms


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## Marduk

destroyd said:


> Yes, I know that I have not been the model of a strong take charge husband. I have shown weakness since this all happened. Everything going down like it did overwhealmed me. I shut down for a period of time, and it was a chore to just get through the day. I most likely had a breakdown event- all by myself. I had significant severance pay, some inheritance, and also knew I had timber that could be cut. Yes, if a good job had become available, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. I looked, and have been looking. It has not materialized. You all are telling me if you had money stacked up in the bank, and everything else I have been dealing with, you would be out bagging groceries in order to say you have a job, and are being productive? Thats bull****- and the ones of you that are honest know it. Now, I have let the dynamic slide too far to that side and I'm seriously behind the 8 ball. Only thing that will begin to fix this is her away from OM, and me find a good job making more money than she does again.


Here's the thing, man.

Just like work is theatre, sometimes marriage is theatre, too. Especially a marriage in crisis. Optics need to be managed very carefully.

And because you were in personal crisis, you didn't do that. And I get that.

By not having a job and throwing a bit of a pity party, you turfed what little attraction and respect your wife had for you. And now it's gone. 

If your lumber company takes you full-time, so be it. But you being mr mom at home while your wife works her high-powered job with mr high powered alpha dude... wrecked any chance you had at reconciliation.

And now it's not about her at all. It's about you and your kids. If you can sit there and honestly tell me that you're doing all you can, fine. If you're being a good role model for your kids and respecting yourself by not working "just any job," so be it.

But I see things differently. I see that you lost your wife to another man, and took the easy way out by sending her back to his den.

I see that you lost your job, and took the easy way out by using your severance, inheritance, and lumber job. Which, to be fair, seems relatively hands off and like you could be working full time on top of that. Or grow it into a larger business worthy of your time.

I see that you lost your marriage, and took the easy way out and have her still living there.

Nothing else matters now but you and your kids. And self-respect, self-reliance, and independence are at the root of both.

You know what you need to do.


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## happyman64

destroyd

Have you ever confronted OM? Does he know you know?

I'm just amazed that you never walked into his office handed him your kids and said if you want my wife then you have to take everything else that comes with her.

Then walk out the door.

Now a lot of people will say this is crazy. A lot of people including your wife will think your nuts.

But if the OM is young and aggressive and your wife is still working with him then I think he need to feel consequences for his actions.


I understand your kids are 10 & 6 and that you don't want to traumatize them or hurt them. Your wife's decision should not affect them.

But it did. It still does. 

WHat are you going to do about it?

All I see is you trying to come up with a plan to better your self and your position while your wife continues to work with OM, get her MBA and finalize her exit strategy while you still help pay for it.

I feel for your situation. After 911 I was in your shoes but my wife put on her big girl panties and went back to work to help out.

Yours took her panties off. 

You really need a plan.

HM


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## OldWolf57

D, we understand. Your life has been thrown for a loop, and holding things as close to normal is how any of us would mostly react.
The problem now is that you can't seem to muster the will to do things that needs doing.
Not just toward your marriage, but career wise also.

In your specialized field would it not be more attractive to a prospective employer if you was a contracted consultant ??
Most companies want younger people who they can train and keep longer.
I don't know if that's so in your field, but would think so.
Hell, your knowing this and the way the search has gone, must surely not doing you any good mentally.

So OK, you don't want to tackle the marriage at this time, at least start doing things professionally wise.
Be that filing an LLC or sending out inquiries concerning consulting work, just do something to build up yourself inwardly.


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## turnera

Agreed. Anyone over 45 should be considering going consultant or contract. There are thousands of staffing agencies who will add you to their rosters and let you know when a project comes up.

I'm 57 and of all the jobs I've been considered for the past 4 months, only 2 or 3 of them have been full-time regular employees; the rest are all contract. The agencies have told me that that's just the future.


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## RoseAglow

marduk said:


> If your lumber company takes you full-time, so be it. But you being mr mom at home while your wife works her high-powered job with mr high powered alpha dude... wrecked any chance you had at reconciliation.


I haven't read all the pages, so this might have been mentioned.

OP, how much have you researched affairs? I mean, obviously you lived it and you know about it, but did you know that affairs are very similar to addictions? They work on the same neural pathways, they involve the same pleasure neurotransmitters, etc.

I am saying this because it is nearly impossible to reconcile if the APs still work together. 

Basically, she is like an alcoholic who is working in a bar. She might be dry, but she is never going to get alcohol out her mind as long as she is working in that environment. Her life is still imbued in it, even if she isn't partaking. Her financial well-being still depends on it. 

No contact is the first rule for any significant break-up and it is especially important when it comes to busting up an affair.

No wonder she is pissed at you. I would be furious in her shoes. You've been totally willing to have her continue to work with this guy. She was willing but you didn't do what it took. Instead she has spent nearly a year in the same affair environment. It suggests that you care much more about the money. 

This is like a recovering porn addict putting a poster of Megan Fox on his ceiling over his bed. He might not touch but he's gonna be looking every morning. 

*She has got to get a different job.* She told you she would leave, if you got a job so that your family was OK. You're making some money but by your own admission early on in the thread, it's not "Wife Quit Her Job" money and she needs to work.

If you have any hopes of reconciling, step ONE has to be: she gets a new job. And this likely means YOU have to get a job. Work it out. Maybe she gets a different PT and you guys downsize, maybe it means you pick up PT, whatever it is- get it done.

This should be top priority IMO.


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## G.J.

How's it going destroyd

Got my fingers crossed you have made a plan of action


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## Chuck71

destroyd said:


> Yes, you ****ing nailed it. Thats exactly how I FEEL.


Saw you posting on a thread similar to yours. How are things with your situation?


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