# Should I be concerned??



## MB2010 (Jul 5, 2010)

I need some opinions on a situation between my fiancee and myself. She is a Dr. that works in sales and deals with a lot of different doctors on a daily basis.
a lot of times the dr.'s will flirt with her and usually its innocent flirting and since everyone knows "sex sales" she has to play along to a certain degree.

well, just recently a dr. she met at a seminar was being really foreward and she played along, but after a day it started going to far. she still played along for another 2 days and realized that he was taking it way to far and that it wasnt innocent teasing or flirting anymore. at this point she came to me and told me all about it and showed me the text log. i was upset that she participated to the degree that she did and she immediatly sent this dr a text letting him know that she wouldnt be able to service his account and that another rep would be calling on him.

i trust her 100% as far as her not cheating on me but im not sure how much i trust her judgement in understanding what the other persons intentions may be.

i attached the text log below. please read through it and give some feedback!!

thanks in advance.

http://www.box.net/shared/k2189ht3zc


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Unbelievable! I think you should be proud of your fiancee though. She was completely honest with you. While she didn't encourage the solicitation from the other doctor, she didn't make him angry either. Then she passed the account off to another sales rep. As long as you and your fiancee keep everything open and honest, you should be fine.


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## MB2010 (Jul 5, 2010)

i agree with you 100% and this event has actually made us closer, but i wonder if you read the chat log. the thing i had the problem with was wheh he would ask questions like what kind of panties she was wearing that it was obviously inappropriate at that point and she didnt end it. she would reply with a smiley face or someother type of response that made it unclear to to him how she actually felt.


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

She was certainly enjoying the thrill of it. If I were you, I would completely forgive her because she came to you and was totally upfront and honest about it. She knew what she was doing was wrong, felt bad about it, and admitted it to you and appear to know it needs to end. It was probably a lapse in her judgement at the time and she let it carry on a little too far. You should be on top of the world right now, believe me. This is a good sign, IMO.


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## MB2010 (Jul 5, 2010)

MrRomantic said:


> She was certainly enjoying the thrill of it. If I were you, I would completely forgive her because she came to you and was totally upfront and honest about it. She knew what she was doing was wrong, felt bad about it, and admitted it to you and appear to know it needs to end. It was probably a lapse in her judgement at the time and she let it carry on a little too far. You should be on top of the world right now, believe me. This is a good sign, IMO.


oh i have. i have forgiven her completly we are actually to the point to where we can laugh and joke about it.

and like i said earlier i never thought that she would actually meet the guy. but at some point it has to stop, im not exactly comfortable with a guy sending nude pics to my fiancee, and texting her at all hours of the night. 

honestly my only real concern was that what if it had gone this far with somone the wasnt a, "stupid little kid" as she put it. what if it was somenone who she might actually have been interested in?? would it have gone farther then?? i guess my point is that if you leave the door open for opportunities like was happening here, one day there is going to be a problem.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I did read the log, and I did see where she responded with smiley faces. I took the smiley faces as a polite way of saying nothing and not making the customer mad. When working in sales it is sometimes best to say nothing at all--because even though that guy is a pig, he is still a customer. I know others may disagree and say that HER behavior was inappropriate, but I don't see it that way. In my line of work, I've seen all of this go on before. The drug companies really like to hire good looking guys and gals to call on doctors' office. And the good ones are extremely flirty too. Although it is sad, unfortunately that's what sells now. As long as your fiancee can see all of this as "a day at the office" and not start living it, I see nothing wrong. Just don't turn into a jealous husband.


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## MB2010 (Jul 5, 2010)

827Aug said:


> I did read the log, and I did see where she responded with smiley faces. I took the smiley faces as a polite way of saying nothing and not making the customer mad. When working in sales it is sometimes best to say nothing at all--because even though that guy is a pig, he is still a customer. I know others may disagree and say that HER behavior was inappropriate, but I don't see it that way. In my line of work, I've seen all of this go on before. The drug companies really like to hire good looking guys and gals to call on doctors' office. And the good ones are extremely flirty too. Although it is sad, unfortunately that's what sells now. As long as your fiancee can see all of this as "a day at the office" and not start living it, I see nothing wrong. Just don't turn into a jealous husband.



i agree with everything your saying and i really appreciate your input. maybe im just uncomfortable becasue it went on for three days and nights, from the first thing in the morning till well after 11 pm. we live in seperate town and when we met up for the evening he was texting her while she was with me. i guess she was feeling bad about how far it went and she was a little concerned that he was going to text her while i was there so she told me everything and showed me the texts.

i did ask her if she still planned on going to his office the next day and she said yes, but that she wouldnt go now since i wasnt happy with the entire situation.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm not sure if these texts went on after work hours. But, that would be another "rule" she should institute. She should only text clients during work hours for the most part. She needs to be able to separate work from family/home life.


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

Bull****. I have to disagree with anyone who says this is appropriate. I only had to read a little bit of it to know that both of them were WAAAAAAAAAY out of line. She may not have known, but she was leading him on and flirting with him the whole time. I'm sure he thought she was hot to trot and that he was definately going to score. 

I hope she learned her lesson. At least she came to you concerned. If she was in her boring mid life crisis 40's she would have been totally swept up in the great feeling it was giving her and would have never come to you and it woul dhave turned in an EA or PA. That is unless she was mature and respectable, in which case she would have known how to shut it down pretty quickly. There is absolutely NO reason to be talking like this to a client or co-worker. NONE!

Guys like this are pigs and could care less if the woman is married or whatever. They just want to go around dipping their wick where ever they can. Give me his personal info and I will personally make his life hell. I deal with women in my work all the time and I don't pull this crap or go around trying to have sex with them.


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

827Aug said:


> I did read the log, and I did see where she responded with smiley faces. I took the smiley faces as a polite way of saying nothing and not making the customer mad. When working in sales it is sometimes best to say nothing at all--because even though that guy is a pig, he is still a customer. I know others may disagree and say that HER behavior was inappropriate, but I don't see it that way. In my line of work, I've seen all of this go on before. The drug companies really like to hire good looking guys and gals to call on doctors' office. And the good ones are extremely flirty too. Although it is sad, unfortunately that's what sells now. As long as your fiancee can see all of this as "a day at the office" and not start living it, I see nothing wrong. Just don't turn into a jealous husband.


Smiley faces mean ......... that I am smiling or that I like. If he says something that is too personal then don't respond. Day at the office? What about having a little respect for their spouse?????? WTF? Don't turn into a jealous husband? Then tell her not to be chatting and flirting like this. It's not even my wife and I want to go kick his ass.


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## MB2010 (Jul 5, 2010)

827Aug said:


> I'm not sure if these texts went on after work hours. But, that would be another "rule" she should institute. She should only text clients during work hours for the most part. She needs to be able to separate work from family/home life.


yes, untill 10 or eleven for three nights in a row. thats sort of my point, i guess i feel like that time was for me and instead he was telling her "sweetdreams" at 11 oclock at night, and asking her if she was playing with herself the next night and on the third night the emotional connection was there and he was asking her "if she was alright" because he hadnt heard back from her. sh ewas with me and couldnt text him back, at this point she told me everyhting.

maybe im just being insecure and being to jelous.


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

You're not being insecure. I went back and read more. Those texts went too far. Your fiance was really allowing a lot of stuff to go on that she shouldn't have. Well, I say that from a husband/wife perspective, but still. 

Sometimes women (or men) will say that they didn't realize that they went too far. BS. You GF is a DR. Is that correct? Maybe she is just dumb when it comes to guys or people in general and didn't realize that flirting, while it may sometimes get you things, can also bring a lot of bad things too. I doubt it though. She knew she was taking it too far IMO. 

Did you find the texts or did she just come clean on her own? Any digging on your part? The fact that she told you is pretty amazing. Most spouses hide, hide, hide and deny, deny, deny. And if you have the proof they say stuff like "Oh, he's just a friend" or "Why can't you just trust me" or "I didn't really mean it like that". 

Did you find them or did she come to you unprovoked?


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## Red_Riding_Hood (Apr 28, 2010)

Well, it is very commendable of your fiance' to come and tell you the truth.. she didn't have to, she wanted to. I think the texts were WAYYY inappropriate and she should have told that guy sooner that she had a fiance' (even though she actually said boyfriend). And her comment, "Marry your best friend, someone who you want to share naughty pictures with", was a bad idea considering thats what he was trying to do with her, it seemed a little misleading. I think you can trust her though, she was honest with you, and in the end, honest with him. Perhaps she just needs to stop trying to be too buddy buddy with her clients and keep it more professional.


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## misunderstood :( (Jul 6, 2010)

HI Everyone 

Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to help my fiance and I hash this out... I really appreciate all the feedback.
I had thought that my fiance understood me and my intentions... but from reading what he had to say in response to your feedback... I can see that there is still a lot of anger and resentment in his statements...

I agreed to allow him to post this with an understanding that he tells the whole truth... but I feel that he is being misleading and trying to throw me under the bus to make himself feel better about the situation.

So... here I am... 1 o'clock in the morning... pleading my case...

First off... I am a doctor... and would like to consider myself not totally incompetent when it comes to reading people and men...
I never said I did not know what was going on... or denied that the whole situation got out of hand. What I have been trying to explain to him.. is that the text log was not as it looked to be...

He keeps on trying to say that the texting went on for three days... and the only reason I told him was because I was with him and was afraid the guy was going to text me and he would find out...

What he fails to see is that I could have easily just turned my phone off and he would have never found out.

Although I might not have handled the situation in the best manner... I did not do it out of any disrespect for him... nor did I continue it to stroke my ego in any way... If asked... I am sure my fiance will have to be the first one to admit that I have many respectable suiters to stroke my ego... enough so that I do not need this snot nose kid of a doctor talking disrespectfully to me in order for me to get kicks...

Here's how it went down...

In my line of work... I always answer my phone... not matter what time of night it is... Im kind of always on call... that's not what my fiance has a problem with... his problem is that the doctor was hitting on me after hours...

From the beginning... I really did not think much about it... because... another thing that my fiance failed to mention is... although I had just met this doctor... he and I graduated from the same school and knew some of the same people.. so from the start... there was kind of a friendship of sort... I looked at him more like a collegue than a client... so when he was being overly friendly... I really did not think much of it... not because I was stupid... but because I just did not think it was that big of a deal.... not sure if this matters... but I live in Texas... where men call women sweetheart on a daily basis... and are overly friendly and flirtacious... 

When he first told me about going to the gym... I was just curious if we went to the same gym because we lived in the same area... when he asked me to go... I declined... my fiance busted me on saying that I would take a raincheck... 

At this point I still did not feel there was a need to say he was being inappropriate... I felt that I declined in a way that would not make the guy uncomfortable or me look like an idiot if his intentions were innocent.

The next day... he text me in the morning... I tried to keep it to business... he took it to the next level... I think there were several places where I tried to let him know that I was not interested in anything but a working relationship. I said some things to smooth over the fact that yes you were inappropriate but it's cool... we are cool... let's try to stay focused on work... I am sure those statements could have been misunderstood by some as... me trying to continue the conversation... or even egging on his bad behavior...

By the middle of the second day when things got really out of hand... at some point I realized that there was no saving the professional relationship with this guy... I just thought to myself... eff it... this kid wants to play... okay lets play.... 

Probably not the best decision on my part... but never did I have the intentions of flirting with this douche bag or was I enjoying it like it was turning me on and I was flattered by him talking to me in a demeaning manner...

When I smiled at him.... it did not mean that I liked it or that I was happy... It was simply... your question is so ridiculous that I have no intentions of answering you.. dumb a**!!! when I said whatever you want it to mean.. I meant... what ever you want it to mean....

I knew exactly what I was doing... I was leading the guy on without ever directly answering any of his questions... and then I was going to nail the sale without ever sleeping with him.... or giving into anything that he wanted... I don't feel that I am guilty for saying anything inappropriate.... I never said that I was going to come to his office without my underwear... I never said that I was was going to sleep with him... I never said that I was going to send him a naked picture of myself...

The only thing that I am guilty for is... not ending it sooner...

And to be totally honest... I probably would not have ended it if it were not for the fact that the situation upset my fiance so much....

Not because I got off on the thrill of having a realtionship with the douche bag doctor.... but for me there would have been a satisfaction in him using him for a sale....

Ethical????? probably not... and that is not how I usually handle my business... but in his case... well deserved!

So in conclusion... What I did was wrong.... I get that... I came clean and was totally honest about the situation... not for fear that he was going to find out... but because it was the right thing to do... I have apologized to my fiance a million times over... When I realized how upset he was I immediately turned the account over to another rep. and severed all ties with the doctor...

I have taken every step to make things right for him...

I even let him post this blog up... 

My question is... when is it going to be enough???????

After reading his responses to your feedback... I can't help but feel he is trying to throw me under the bus to make himself feel better... 

Am I crazy?


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## misunderstood :( (Jul 6, 2010)

Sorry....

One more thing... just in case anyone might think that I am making any of this up to cover my butt.... 

I am sure my fiance will back me when I say... that I am probably honest to a fault... Good bad or indifferent... I always tell the truth.

Perfect... I am not... Truthful... I am...

Thanks again... and any feedback will be much appreciated...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I honestly think more damage is being done the more everyone posts. And clearly not everyone understands the business. Most clients will stick to simple flirting and not cross the line. Now, that that has been said.....quit dwelling on the past and looking at every detail of the incident under the microscope. Instead focus on your future and decide on boundaries. Figure out what is acceptable to both of you. I can already see it is going to be hard to separate work from home/family time.


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## El Guapo (Jun 11, 2010)

HI Everyone 

Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to help my fiance and I hash this out... I really appreciate all the feedback.
I had thought that my fiance understood me and my intentions... but from reading what he had to say in response to your feedback... I can see that there is still a lot of anger and resentment in his statements...

>> El Guapo says: I'm sure there is still some anger and resentment. Why wouldn't there be, unless your relationship is the type where both of you have a LOT of freedom.


I agreed to allow him to post this with an understanding that he tells the whole truth... but I feel that he is being misleading and trying to throw me under the bus to make himself feel better about the situation.

>> El Guapo says: He posted the log. How could he be misleading in that area?


So... here I am... 1 o'clock in the morning... pleading my case...

First off... I am a doctor... and would like to consider myself not totally incompetent when it comes to reading people and men...
I never said I did not know what was going on... or denied that the whole situation got out of hand. What I have been trying to explain to him.. is that the text log was not as it looked to be...

>> El Guapo says: How cold it be not as it looked? That is one of the textbook responses that spouses give, even when cuaght in very comprimising situations. How was it different?


He keeps on trying to say that the texting went on for three days... and the only reason I told him was because I was with him and was afraid the guy was going to text me and he would find out...

>> El Guapo says: Can you understand how he feels? Most people would feel the same way.


What he fails to see is that I could have easily just turned my phone off and he would have never found out.

Although I might not have handled the situation in the best manner... I did not do it out of any disrespect for him... nor did I continue it to stroke my ego in any way... If asked... I am sure my fiance will have to be the first one to admit that I have many respectable suiters to stroke my ego... enough so that I do not need this snot nose kid of a doctor talking disrespectfully to me in order for me to get kicks...


>> El Guapo says: It did appear that you liked this snot nosed kid doctor talking to you like that. It did appear that you were getting off on it. Only you know what was going on in you own mind, but the appearance is there.


Here's how it went down...

In my line of work... I always answer my phone... not matter what time of night it is... Im kind of always on call... that's not what my fiance has a problem with... his problem is that the doctor was hitting on me after hours...

>> El Guapo says: Do yo not get to have work time and family time? Personal texts after hours is just asking for trouble. 


From the beginning... I really did not think much about it... because... another thing that my fiance failed to mention is... although I had just met this doctor... he and I graduated from the same school and knew some of the same people.. so from the start... there was kind of a friendship of sort... I looked at him more like a collegue than a client... so when he was being overly friendly... I really did not think much of it... not because I was stupid... but because I just did not think it was that big of a deal.... not sure if this matters... but I live in Texas... where men call women sweetheart on a daily basis... and are overly friendly and flirtacious... 

>> El Guapo says: I live in TX and I don't talk to women like that or flirt with another man's wife. You must live in Austin. Where I'm from talking to a man's wife like that is a sure ticket to an ass whippin. Collegue or not, went too far.


When he first told me about going to the gym... I was just curious if we went to the same gym because we lived in the same area... when he asked me to go... I declined... my fiance busted me on saying that I would take a raincheck... 

>> El Guapo says: Maybe a raincheck was your own way of saying no, only you know for sure. Try to see it from you finace's perspective. It could be taken as leaving the door open. I'm sure your fiance would like a more definate NO.


At this point I still did not feel there was a need to say he was being inappropriate... I felt that I declined in a way that would not make the guy uncomfortable or me look like an idiot if his intentions were innocent.

The next day... he text me in the morning... I tried to keep it to business... he took it to the next level... I think there were several places where I tried to let him know that I was not interested in anything but a working relationship. I said some things to smooth over the fact that yes you were inappropriate but it's cool... we are cool... let's try to stay focused on work... I am sure those statements could have been misunderstood by some as... me trying to continue the conversation... or even egging on his bad behavior...

>> El Guapo says: Don't ever be concerned about hurting a guy's feelers. He is a pig. I'm sure he gets smacked down all the time for being out of line. I'm also sure that he will probably wreck a few marriages in his career as a womanizer in his lifetime. Don't let him wreck yours.


By the middle of the second day when things got really out of hand... at some point I realized that there was no saving the professional relationship with this guy... I just thought to myself... eff it... this kid wants to play... okay lets play.... 

>> El Guapo says: Hhhhmmmmmm? Not sure I buy this playing with him thing. That's not a good idea even if its true. Is that respecting your husband? Would you like him to flirt up and talk dirty to some 18 year old hottie? Probably not. And see it from a practical standpoint. What if you are "playing with" some womanizer and his wife finds the texts? Then what? Will she complain to your boss? Will you get fired? Will she show up at your house and pop a cap in your ass? I've seen it happen. You're playing with fire doing that. Nothing good can come from it except for maybe a few extra sales. Are they worth it?


Probably not the best decision on my part... but never did I have the intentions of flirting with this douche bag or was I enjoying it like it was turning me on and I was flattered by him talking to me in a demeaning manner...

>> El Guapo says: It sure seemed like you were enjoying it. Only you know for sure. Now your fiance (can I just start calling him husband) has these crazy thoughts going round and round in his head wondering what is going on with you, wondering how excited and turned on you were. Whether you were or not he is now having to struggle with it.


When I smiled at him.... it did not mean that I liked it or that I was happy... It was simply... your question is so ridiculous that I have no intentions of answering you.. dumb a**!!! when I said whatever you want it to mean.. I meant... what ever you want it to mean....

>> El Guapo says: Again, only you know for sure. I'm sure the Dr didn't take it that way. I'm sure he took it as approval on your part and that you were available and still interested.


I knew exactly what I was doing... I was leading the guy on without ever directly answering any of his questions... and then I was going to nail the sale without ever sleeping with him.... or giving into anything that he wanted... I don't feel that I am guilty for saying anything inappropriate.... I never said that I was going to come to his office without my underwear... I never said that I was was going to sleep with him... I never said that I was going to send him a naked picture of myself...

>> El Guapo says: Nail the sale without ever sleeping with him? Are you serious? Is the way you conduct business? You're every wife's worst nightmare. You're the one out there turning on their husbands at the trade shows and making them think they have a shot with you. think about it. You're playing a dangerous game, even if you were single. Now that you are about to get married I'm sure it would take a very special type of relationship for any husband to go along with this sales strategy. Very few husbands are going to like this. 


The only thing that I am guilty for is... not ending it sooner...
And to be totally honest... I probably would not have ended it if it were not for the fact that the situation upset my fiance so much....

>> El Guapo says: Playing with fire. I personally think it was too far. You need to show your husband some respect (and yourself too).


Not because I got off on the thrill of having a realtionship with the douche bag doctor.... but for me there would have been a satisfaction in him using him for a sale....

>> El Guapo says: See answer above.


Ethical????? probably not... and that is not how I usually handle my business... but in his case... well deserved!

So in conclusion... What I did was wrong.... I get that... I came clean and was totally honest about the situation... not for fear that he was going to find out... but because it was the right thing to do... I have apologized to my fiance a million times over... When I realized how upset he was I immediately turned the account over to another rep. and severed all ties with the doctor...

>> El Guapo says: Good.


I have taken every step to make things right for him...
I even let him post this blog up... 
My question is... when is it going to be enough???????

>> El Guapo says: Your husband's head is probably a little screwed up right now. This probably bothered him a lot. He may not admit it but he may be wondering deep down inside what else has been going on that he doesn't know about. He may not admit it, but his trust for you probably isn't as strong as it once was. 


After reading his responses to your feedback... I can't help but feel he is trying to throw me under the bus to make himself feel better... Am I crazy?

>> El Guapo says: How is he trying to do that? Read his first post. He just stated the bare fact and posted the log. It sounds like to me that he has been trying to get his point across to you and you are telling him that he has it all wrong. It appears thatthis is a bigger issue to him that he lets on in his posts. My guess is he came on here as a means to get a few unbiased opinions (if any of us here can be unbiased) so that it won't be just you against him in hopes that you will see it from his perspective. I'm sure he does want to feel better ..... feel better about your relationship. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure I'm buying your responses. I could be all wrong, but I think it was a big turn on to you to be pursued by a younger Dr. It's fine to feel good about being admired, but you could have nipped it in the bud in the very beginning. You could have had your cake and eat it too - you could have felt good knowing that he thinks your're hot AND you could have set the terms at a higher level and shown respect for your husband (and yourself). Don't let these slimeballs and womanizers ruin your happiness or wreck your relationship. You guys need to talk about it and set some boundaries that you both can live with.

You can be a very beautiful business woman and be nice but nip it in the bud very early. I know women who are like this. They have my utmost respect. They are beautiful, smart, sexy, everything, but they don't let other men go too far in crossing their boundaries. They just have this ability to know when the guy has his feelers out and they know exactly how and when to gracefully nip it in the bud. They are friendly but very professional. They are truly in charge of the whole situation. Its an amazing thing to watch. On the other hand there are the women that kind of fumble around with the situation and don't really know how to handle it or don't really understand what the guy is getting after so they just kind of muddle off into it thinking that they are in charge of the situation but they aren't. I'm not saying you are either one of these examples, just giving two. Remember Loni anderson on WKRP? Remember the guys that were always hitting on her in the office? She would slap their hands every time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My only comment is that this would be a good time to rededicate you two to keeping your relationship fresh. MB recommends spending 15 hours a week together doing 'fun' stuff, date stuff - sports, movies, dinner, walking and talking...so your relationship doesn't go stale. That way, if such things do come up, in the future, when you're married, there won't be a temptation to keep it going.

There's an awesome book called His Needs Her Needs that will also protect your marriage.

Sounds like you're on the right track. 

That said, I just want to make sure that you are truly understanding how your fiance felt upon reading the texts. Empathy is key, ok? (that and communication) And it doesn't sound like you were really dealing with this with any sense of empathy for your fiance. If there was anything to work on, IMO it would be that.


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## misunderstood :( (Jul 6, 2010)

Once again... thank you for all of your input... will take all of it into account


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