# How do you move past self-guilt and regret?



## Ribbit

After a nearly 20 year marriage with two kids (now teenagers), my now ex-wife completely surprised me around six months ago by telling me she wanted to leave. She really did not give me any specific reason (just general vague things like, "I think you need me more than you want me").

We got divorced roughly a month later (I know, that sounds strange, in my state when the parties agree on the terms of everything, it can go very quickly). She made it very clear that while she would go to counseling with me (which we did), that it was not going to help and she wanted out. Said she was done.

Somewhere during this process, I also realized she was having at least an emotional affair, and almost certainly a physical affair with a co-worker, that had started at least 2-3 months by her own admission (and possibly more) old. She denies it was physical before the divorce, but that seems very unlikely just based on the evidence I found (thousands of text messages to the guy over a few months, knowledge that they met each other at a particular coffee shop a bunch of times, knowledge of a weekend they were going to take (and likely did) together away, etc.). In any event, she claims that the affair was basically just her getting the timing wrong, that she should have told me she wanted to leave a year ago.

She lied about the affair the entire time, only revealing the portions I specifically told her I knew about. Even those she tried to downplay. The entire time, she portrayed the divorce as her needing to be on her own, and needing to have space.

My ex-wife objectively had a lot of issues. She did not work (other than the very limited, part time job where she met the affair partner co-worker) for pretty much the entire marriage - even the limited part-time job she had only been in for the prior 2-3 years. Basically, she did not work at all for many years even after both kids were in school all day, and she did not get a "serious" job even at the end.

Even though she was home all day, she did not keep the house. Worse than that (because I can accept that the housekeeping was not all her responsibility even as a stay-at-home wife), she lived a near "hoarders" level existence, in that she was incredibly sloppy. She never put anything back. She would get up at 10:00 in the morning, shuffle around, drink a cup of tea, work on some "for fun" craft project, leave that sitting wherever she was working on it (and wherever could literally mean sprawled out over the living room floor), go meet some friends for lunch, basically just bum around all day.

On top of all of this, she was really bad with spending money. She did not spend more than we made, but she basically made it so we spent low six-figures every year without anything to really show for it.

She is now very clearly seeing (and having sex with) the co-worker (though my kids do not know that). When I was moving out, I had the great fortune of looking in a bag that was in our shared closet (she knew I would be in there) and pulling out a lingerie that was clearly suitable only for intended sex. I admit, I showed it to her, and she admitted that she was now having sex with the guy. Her lovely phrasing: "Yeah, I figured, why grind it out?" (I assume she was trying to say, what's the point in waiting/pretending to wait.)

Bear in mind, she and I were each other's first - to my knowledge, each of us had only slept with the other one.

I'm now about 5.5 months following her saying she wanted to leave, and 4 months following the final divorce.

And it almost feels like it is getting worse instead of better on the psychological front for me.

The issue lately is, for all that she has done, all I feel is this incredible sense of self-guilt and regret that I lost this marriage. Specifically, in that I look back through all my memories and think about the relationship, and tell myself that I really was not emotionally there for her.

You read these articles on the internet, and they talk about how relationships fall apart because people stop having conversations, one person stops fulfilling the other person's emotional needs, a person gets into a rut and does not realize it.

The funny thing is, I always told her I loved her. Sex was always good - she was always willing, and often initiated. She alternates back and forth between saying that she tried to tell me early on but I "didn't listen," and then saying that she intentionally kept everything hidden, so that I had no way of knowing. (I saw a chat message to the affair partner where she literally said this, "I feel bad in a way, because I always pretended to be happy, and did not let him know how unhappy I was, so all he has are happy memories and now he is confused.")

When I asked her for examples about how she "tried to tell me," she would refuse, and say that it was in the past and she was not going to think about it any more.

Throughout the relationship (probably once every 3-4 months), I would directly ask her, "Are you happy? Is everything okay? Are we good in the marriage?" She would always respond with, "Of course, don't be silly, I love you" or something similar.

She admitted to me that she did this to intentionally reassure me, even though she was not happy.

For the first while after the divorce, I was stunned. I felt completely blindsided. I was upset (and still am) over the affair, that she did not communicate with me, did not try to talk with me, did not try to fix anything.

But now, in the last few months, I am having this incredible self-guilt. Telling myself, "Why should she have to tell you directly what should have been obvious to you, that you were neglecting her, growing apart, etc.?" I have guilt that I did not go out and do things with her (another odd thing - she knew I was kind of a homebody, and she would specifically tell me she was fine with me staying home, that I should stay in and watch a movie or something). I have guilt that I played computer games (I would worry aloud with her from time to time that maybe I played too much - probably about 10 hours a week if I'm being honest - and she would expressly tell me I needed to stop worrying about things like that and just be comfortable with who I am and what my hobbies were).

Basically, I am feeling absolutely miserable, guilty, and regretful that I should have seen obvious signs (even to the extent my ex-wife reassured me that everything was fine), or less than obvious signs, that I should have been ****ing smart enough to realize that even though your wife says she has no problem with you staying at home while she goes out to a play with friends, that you should not be ****ing dumb enough to believe that - people want to be together, and relationships work when people are together.

Then I feel this tremendous regret that she has essentially cut things off forever by having this affair with the other guy. If she had talked to me, even if she had asked for a divorce (or we had actually divorced) and she had actually given some space and room, as opposed to hopping on this other guy's ****, we might have been able to figure things out. God knows I certainly would have tried. But she made that impossible. Just leaving a nearly 20 year marriage, and not even being able to allow enough space to even have a chance to fix anything. Instead, taking an affirmative action that would essentially guarantee that we could not be back together ever (I cannot imagine ever being with her and not thinking of her with the other guy).

I am having a really difficult time moving past this constructively. I know that the standard answer is to not look to the past and fixate on it with regret, but to take the lessons you want from the past and try to apply them to your relationships in the future. I have been unable to do that - I cannot get over these feelings of regret and guilt.

Oh yes, before it is asked, I am seeing a therapist. I have not found it to be of much help in this area, and I have tried others as well. I have also been doing the common recommended steps - no contact, trying to 180, have been going to the gym regularly, drinking lots of water, eating better, trying to sleep as well as possible (though the recurring bad dreams about the divorce I've been having in the last few months haven't helped that), etc.


----------



## happy as a clam

Ribbit...

You are grieving the loss of a 20-year relationship; specifically, one that you did not want to give up. On top of that, you are still reeling from her betrayal and infidelity. The end of a marriage is like a death and you have to go through all the stages of grief which are:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Making it through all 5 stages takes time, often a lot of time. And you don't move clearly from one step to the next. You know the old saying, "One step forward, two steps back."

It sounds like you are doing many things already that will help -- therapy, working out, eating well, sleeping.

Have you thought about taking up a new sport or hobby, or joining a new group for socializing? Or doing some fun activities with your kids? Having places to go and people to meet might help you along.

For example, I am planning a one-month hiking trip with my kids in the summer of 2016. Even more than a year out, we are already having a lot of fun planning our itinerary, collecting travel brochures, thinking about what kind of equipment to purchase, etc. You need something bright and happy to think about.

I'm sorry you're here. I wish you the very best


----------



## Ribbit

happy as a clam said:


> Making it through all 5 stages takes time, often a lot of time.


I've read that. One thing I don't understand though, is how do you know what is just taking time, versus what is unhealthy rumination or getting stuck? Because I just keep feeling this pain and guilt day after day, and I'm worried.



happy as a clam said:


> Have you thought about taking up a new sport or hobby, or joining a new group for socializing? Or doing some fun activities with your kids? Having places to go and people to meet might help you along.


I've been doing my best on these fronts. I have a health/wellness/coping class one night a week for two hours. A divorce support group (group of recently divorced people) another night for two hours. A book club (that also meets and does stuff like bar trivia nights). I've volunteered and packed food for the hungry, gone to board game nights.

With regard to the kids, I'm doing everything I can to stay active and involved with them. Every time they are over, I tried to make sure we do a "real" activity that gets us out of the house (so far, driving downtown to the museum and spending the afternoon there, taking them to a science and engineering demonstration for kids, even going out to a (child-friendly) bar to watch the big football games on a big screen with all the other cheering people around). I have tried to make sure I am literally with them when ever I have them - we're not doing things separately in the house, I'm watching movies with them, etc.

With all that said, I am also trying to keep a balance with the kids so that they do not become props for my support. I'm making sure that they are out doing things with friends on their own, etc. I recognize that the divorce and my pain is mine to deal with. I need them doing healthy teenage activities to keep growing themselves, not to become Dad's source of consolation and support. So, for example, for the Super Bowl, I made sure that one of my kids who had an invitation to a friend's party went there, instead of making him stay with me and watch it.


----------



## happy as a clam

Ribbit, you've *got* this!! :smthumbup:

You're already doing everything right, including setting and keeping healthy boundaries for your kids throughout this very trying time.

You asked the following question:



Ribbit said:


> One thing I don't understand though, is how do you know what is just taking time, versus what is unhealthy rumination or getting stuck? Because I just keep feeling this pain and guilt day after day, and I'm worried.


I can't answer that, because I truly don't know. Even three-and-a-half years post-divorce from a very unhappy marriage, AND despite being in a very happy relationship now, I am still sad about the "ending" of my family from time to time. I think it's only normal.

I can tell you this with certainty though -- 6 months is not very long to make such a big adjustment in your life. I know it sounds cliche, but time really does heal wounds. I think you will need more time. Perhaps your therapist can help you determine whether you're "stuck" or moving forward.

Others will be along here shortly to offer helpful insight.


----------



## Pluto2

Ribbit, you are not dragging this out. This is still an extremely fresh wound that you are trying to heal, although I understand why you may not believe that right now.

Don't rush it. Somebody on here said its not uncommon to take one year of healing for every 4 years of marriage. That's terribly arbitrary and obviously doesn't apply to lots of people. But it shows that when you are in a long-term marriage it isn't something you get over in a few months.
And definitely not when you are also dealing with a betrayal by your ex. You question everything. 
You have to give it time.


----------



## ConanHub

You do realize that your WWs shytty behavior was her low character and choices? You are both responsible for the issues in your marriage but she owns her wh0ring all to herself.

Are you taking blame for her cheating? She had many other options. Don't heap so much on yourself. None of us are perfect partners but we somehow keep our pants on! 

Hope you cheer up soon. Sorry life dealt you this hand. Have you thought about dating a little? Sorry if you already answered that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GTdad

Ribbit, I think you could use a little self-righteous anger.

You were in the same marriage she was. F*ck her and her f*cked up choices.


----------



## ConanHub

GTdad said:


> Ribbit, I think you could use a little self-righteous anger.
> 
> You were in the same marriage she was. F*ck her and her f*cked up choices.


This is actually what I wanted to say! LOL! &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

This is still very new for you, six months is NOT a long time, especially after a 20 year marriage. Realize the things that YOU could have done better, and apply them next time around. That's really all you can do, because you cant go back and change the past. 

In my opinion, you are bound to have a happier life than what you did with her. She sounds like a life-suck. Hoarding? Laziness? Staying at home instead of getting a real job? You deserve a real partner, I hate to say it but she did you a favor, here. (Honestly I am surprised she managed to even FIND an AP, who wants someone like this??) 

You are actually doing really great, keep at it.


----------



## SamuraiJack

I will echo the other sentiments. She sounds like she was really "playing wife" rather than participating in the marriage.

Just remember SHE chose to cheat and you will have to tale a LOT of what she said in the past year or so with a big phucking grain of salt because her brain is bathing in all those love chemicals.
Her world is all rainbows, puppy dogs and Unicorns who poop jelly beans.

But if there is one thing you can take to the bank, its that her affair wont last. You can almost correlate how much of the failure was your fault by the level of phucked-upedness they display during their honeymoon period. The screwier they are, the less likely you were the direct result.
"Why grind it out?" Thats so callous it's not funny...and its effed up.

Maybe we can call this the SJ Effect."...;P
Its those darn chemicals! 

I think you are darn lucky to have her leave. 
Think about what she would have been like in another ten years!  Imagine yourself surrounded by years of clutter, no money and nothing to show for your efforts...meanwhile its 11AM, she's just getting out of bed to get some coffee and watch soap operas all day.
Sorry. You dont need to live in THAT castle.

In the meantime you ARE doing the right things.
Just dont expect the world to suddenly become bright and sunny.
These things take time.
Winter is here now and things look bleak...but Springtime is coming.

NOTHING can stop that.


----------



## Ribbit

See, I worry that I point out these issues with her because I want to deflect my own guilt. When I look at her faults, this little voice tells me, "You're doing what everyone does - putting the blame on the other person to avoid your own culpability." 

I mean, I'm not lying about or making up the things she did or character traits that she has. But at the same time, I was critical about things. I was (and am) depressed and anxious. While I worked (and still do work) a high paying, high stress job for the entire marriage, I certainly had my own emotional struggles with work. (E.g. I took a three month sabbatical five years ago as I didn't sleep more than a couple of hours a night from job stress/general anxiety before the sabbatical, though I then did return to work).

So I feel like she could sit there as well, talking about all of my issues, my being too critical of her, my being too distant, etc.


----------



## SamuraiJack

You need to get above all this and look at it from the big picture...50, 000 feet up as they say.
You will get there.

The hurt is fresh right now, but you will gain some perspective if you work on yourself.
Nobdoy is saying its all her fault.
We are saying that cheaters tend to tip the scales in their direction...with good reason.

As you become more honest with yourself you will see what you need to own and what you dont.

Go easy on yourself.
There is nothing to be gained by holding the world on your shoulders.


----------



## GTdad

Ribbit said:


> See, I worry that I point out these issues with her because I want to deflect my own group. When I look at her faults, this little voice tells me, "You're doing what everyone does - putting the blame on the other person to avoid your own culpability."
> 
> I mean, I'm not lying about or making up the things she did or character traits that she has. But at the same time, I was critical about things. I was (and am) depressed and anxious. While I worked (and still do work) a high paying, high stress job for the entire marriage, I certainly had my own emotional struggles with work. (E.g. I took a three month sabbatical five years ago as I didn't sleep more than a couple of hours a night from job stress/general anxiety before the sabbatical, though I then did return to work).
> 
> So I feel like she could sit there as well, talking about all of my issues, my being too critical of her, my being too distant, etc.


You have your issues and shortcomings. Welcome to humanity. We are flawed and tiresome and sometimes a pain in the ass to be around. That DOESN'T mean that we give our spouses carte blanche to screw around on the side.

The best thing you can do with your flaws, once you recognize them, is do what you can to improve them. Stress and anxiety? Work out. Meds and counseling past a certain point. Critical? Sounds like you had a few things to be critical about. 

You can handle this, brother.


----------



## Ribbit

GTdad said:


> You have your issues and shortcomings. Welcome to humanity. We are flawed and tiresome and sometimes a pain in the ass to be around. That DOESN'T mean that we give our spouses carte blanche to screw around on the side.


I get this. I know that the affair was wrong. But I also wonder, what if there wasn't the affair? Was I a bad enough person to justify her leaving me? Or was I bad enough that even if the affair wasn't justifiable (because they never are), it was perhaps in some way understandable?



GTdad said:


> The best thing you can do with your flaws, once you recognize them, is do what you can to improve them. Stress and anxiety? Work out. Meds and counseling past a certain point. Critical? Sounds like you had a few things to be critical about.
> 
> You can handle this, brother.


Yeah, I did try to do those things (and still do). I did counseling for the job stress, for example. I worked on figuring out ways to get more sleep, and stop waking up every hour through the middle of the night. I did try to do what I was supposed to do.

The counselor I am seeing now actually saw both of us together for a few times back when I was unable to sleep and needed to take the sabbatical. It's funny - the thing he says he remembers about my ex-wife is that I was desperate, unable to sleep, trying to figure things out and hold on, and begging her to at least find some type of employment or job to help balance things out, take off the pressure of my being the sole breadwinner with a job that I was struggling with (just from the number of hours worked, type of work, inability to sleep, etc.), let me change jobs to something less stressful by having her have a job that would provide some additional income. He said he remembers that while she was supportive on the surface (e.g. she said that I could quit the job and we would figure out a way to make it work), that she was very disconnected and unwilling to actually take any affirmative steps to go get a job herself, to do something concrete to help out.

I don't know - it's a mess. That's part of what makes it so difficult. She was never one of those wives who nagged, berated me for being insufficient, etc. Probably too much information here, but I hear about so many spouses that withhold sex or have dead bedrooms - she had no issues there (she was always game). It is so hard to wrap in that person, who I thought was at least emotionally supportive of me, but had all of these major issues that I previously mentioned, with the person who then tore out my heart by leaving and having an affair.

Honestly, I stayed married to her because while she had these major character defects and flaws (here is weird example of being a bit lazy - when I was last at her house in mid-February, she still hadn't taken the Christmas tree down), she was intelligent, and I really thought she was a fundamentally good person (basically unfocused and a bit lazy, but with a very kind heart). Now it is hard for me to say, "She left me, she was not fundamentally a good person," and so I again look for things I must have done to sour her.

I know I'm rambling a bit now, I'll give it a rest for a little bit.


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife didn't work and was shxtty at keeping up your home. You played video games 10 hours a week. So you both let each other down. It is very common for WAW and WW to be checked out and not say anything explicit until it is too late.

It's good to go over everything in therapy. Your going to have to put this behind you.

Did the divorce award her lifetime alimony?


----------



## maincourse99

I went through something very similar. Blindsided, had no idea she was unhappy. It's on her that she failed to communicate her feelings to you. It's very hard when someone is constantly reassuring you everything is fine. Seems like you gave her the opportunity to tell you. 

Bottom line, there was nothing you could have done. She didn't tell you because she didn't want to try and fix it. She wanted something else, and my guess is she doesn't even know what that is. 
I'm 3 years out and I'm still not 100% past it, but I'm so much better than I was. 6 months isn't long, just try not to drag yourself down with these negative thoughts and time will heal. I wish you the best.


----------



## Ribbit

LongWalk said:


> Your wife didn't work and was shxtty at keeping up your home. You played video games 10 hours a week. So you both let each other down. It is very common for WAW and WW to be checked out and not say anything explicit until it is too late.


See, this is where I get scrambled up in guilt. I try to tell myself, "If you watched television a couple hours a night three nights a week, then four hours total on the weekend, few people would say that is terrible." In addition, the gaming got worse (moved toward the ten hours) as I got further and further in the relationship. I was so disgusted with the house, with her being late and always needing "just 30 minutes" to do anything, I just found a way to retreat and start doing something myself. I basically stopped waiting on her to do things. 

But that would also be a convenient rationalization for someone who does not want to feel guilty. 




LongWalk said:


> It's good to go over everything in therapy. Your going to have to put this behind you.


That's what worries me. I'm going over it in therapy, but I don't feel like I'm making a dent. If anything, I feel worse now than I did a month or so ago. (Still better than during and after the divorce, but these last weeks/month, I feel like I'm going backward/feeling more guilty).




LongWalk said:


> Did the divorce award her lifetime alimony?



No. It was a mutually agreed to divorce. She asked for very little (comparatively to our assets/my income). She got the house, (completely paid off) and a chunk of cash but that was not a high value asset compared to retirement and other cash accounts, which I kept. She waived alimony - all I have to pay is basic child support, and even that she has not cared about so far. 

I always feel hesitant to talk about that, because I know so many people get economically destroyed by divorce, and I do not want to sound ungrateful that I came out relatively well off from what it could have been economically. But just being honest, the good economic deal I got has not helped me process the emotional side.



LongWalk said:


> Your wife didn't work and was shxtty at keeping up your home. You played video games 10 hours a week. So you both let each other down. It is very common for WAW and WW to be checked out and not say anything explicit until it is too late.


See, this is where I get scrambled up in guilt. I try to tell myself, "If you watched television a couple hours a night three nights a week, then four hours total on the weekend, few people would say that is terrible." In addition, the gaming got worse (moved toward the ten hours) as I got further and further in the relationship. I was so disgusted with the house, with her being late and always needing "just 30 minutes" to do anything, I just found a way to retreat and start doing something myself. I basically stopped waiting on her to do things. 

But that would also be a convenient rationalization for someone who does not want to feel guilty. 




LongWalk said:


> It's good to go over everything in therapy. Your going to have to put this behind you.


That's what worries me. I'm going over it in therapy, but I don't feel like I'm making a dent. If anything, I feel worse now than I did a month or so ago. (Still better than during and after the divorce, but these last weeks/month, I feel like I'm going backward/feeling more guilty).




LongWalk said:


> Did the divorce award her lifetime alimony?



No. It was a mutually agreed to divorce. She asked for very little (comparatively to our assets/my income). She got the house, (completely paid off) and a chunk of cash but that was not a high value asset compared to retirement and other cash accounts, which I kept. She waived alimony - all I have to pay is basic child support, and even that she has not cared about so far. 

I always feel hesitant to talk about that, because I know so many people get economically destroyed by divorce, and I do not want to sound ungrateful that I came out relatively well off from what it could have been economically. But just being honest, the good economic deal I got has not helped me process the emotional side.



ConanHub said:


> You do realize that your WWs shytty behavior was her low character and choices? You are both responsible for the issues in your marriage but she owns her wh0ring all to herself.
> 
> Are you taking blame for her cheating? She had many other options. Don't heap so much on yourself. None of us are perfect partners but we somehow keep our pants on!
> 
> Hope you cheer up soon. Sorry life dealt you this hand. Have you thought about dating a little? Sorry if you already answered that.


Regarding blame, it is a mix. I am trying not to take blame for her cheating. Probably more for the situation that led to the end of the marriage/combined with her cheating.

I have not dated yet. I am on a few online sites, but I've mostly just poked around and looked, as opposed to messaging anyone. I'm trying to follow the advise of not dating (certainly not dating seriously) for a good amount of time after the divorce, so that I can find out what I want to be as a person alone, and also not fall into the same mistakes in a rebound relationship.



GTdad said:


> Ribbit, I think you could use a little self-righteous anger.
> 
> You were in the same marriage she was. F*ck her and her f*cked up choices.


That's one of the funny things. There is part of me that knows (rationally) that I'm really overthinking this. That she just did terrible things, that she did not honestly try to fix anything, and that her complaints to at least a large degree are a rationalization (and a rewrite of history) because she could not handle the guilt of admitting she just ran away and had an affair.

Basically, the type of history rewriting that SamuraiJack said when he said this:



SamuraiJack said:


> Just remember SHE chose to cheat and you will have to tale a LOT of what she said in the past year or so with a big phucking grain of salt because her brain is bathing in all those love chemicals.
> Her world is all rainbows, puppy dogs and Unicorns who poop jelly beans.


But then I keep going back to the notion of thinking that she must have walked away for a reason - people do not leave great relationships.


----------



## daddymikey1975

Ribbit, your marriage sounded like mine. I made much less money and had many more children though. 

After evaluating things in my marriage, because I too felt guilty, what I realized is this (for me) :

My ex wife's character traits were very similar to your ex wife's , very similar. 

Because of my ex wife's laziness, I too eventually (slowly over time) immersed myself into my hobbies. By doing so, I ignored and neglected her. This pushes women away. The reason I immersed in hobbies was because I didn't want to put forth any effort to try and fix things between us (to be read, we went to MC but she was too disconnected for me to give a sh!t about continuing). So, since we didn't like each other (much) I inadvertently distanced myself from her and she chose to seek attention elsewhere. 

I have owned my part, but I recognize her part. 

I'm much happier living solo. My house is as clean as I want it. I don't have anyone to answer to. I don't have to be tied down. If I want to drink beer and pass out on the couch, I don't get yelled at. I have money saved (finally) and an in a very good path with my life and my children. 

I was married almost 12 years BTW. 

So, my advice to you is look honestly at your faults. Don't be too hard on yourself about placing blame. In fact, do the blame game. Play out an argument about everything that bothered you. 

You (to ex wife) "you're so lazy, i hate that you never clean the house" 

Her (to you) "I only do that because......" 

Play out the argument honestly. You will find your faults. 

Things do get better. It's like a dance. Couple steps forward and a couple back. 

Also don't get so wrapped up with activities and being social that you become so distracted that you won't allow yourself the time to feel, experience all the grief, and finally let it all go. I think you're doing the right things, but don't get so busy that you don't take some time for yourself.


----------



## Ribbit

daddymikey1975 said:


> Because of my ex wife's laziness, I too eventually (slowly over time) immersed myself into my hobbies. By doing so, I ignored and neglected her. This pushes women away. The reason I immersed in hobbies was because I didn't want to put forth any effort to try and fix things between us (to be read, we went to MC but she was too disconnected for me to give a sh!t about continuing). So, since we didn't like each other (much) I inadvertently distanced myself from her and she chose to seek attention elsewhere.
> 
> I have owned my part, but I recognize her part.


So if you do that, how do you get over the just searing regret as to your part, and the role it played in the loss of your marriage? I'm not trying to make things more painful for you, but that is a big part of my problem. I look at the things I did wrong, and if I acknowledge them fully, I just feel this horrible pain that does not go away that I irreparably lost the love of my life.

And I do not know how to deal with that.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ribbit said:


> So if you do that, how do you get over the just searing regret as to your part, and the role it played in the loss of your marriage? I'm not trying to make things more painful for you, but that is a big part of my problem. I look at the things I did wrong, and if I acknowledge them fully,* I just feel this horrible pain that does not go away that I irreparably lost the love of my life.*
> 
> And I do not know how to deal with that.


Perspective, here...was she REALLY the love of your life? Or was she just the old familiar and comfortable? Were you really happy? Were you really fulfilled? Would you really have wanted to live the next 40 years of your life in that relationship exactly as it was before you split? Also, keep in mind that the woman cheated on you.


----------



## Ribbit

3Xnocharm said:


> Perspective, here...was she REALLY the love of your life? Or was she just the old familiar and comfortable? Were you really happy? Were you really fulfilled? Would you really have wanted to live the next 40 years of your life in that relationship exactly as it was before you split? Also, keep in mind that the woman cheated on you.


That's really difficult. Does it make sense to say that the things about her that were negatives were generally "physical" types of things (I don't mean physical as in her body, I mean as opposed to mental/emotional) - spending way too much money, being late all the time, never actually getting a job, kind of lazing about all day, being completely slobby and making the house a terrible place to live, etc.

But emotionally, she always felt like she was there. She never complained about me (at least to me - I later found out she certainly did to others). Never nagged me. Never talked about how I was failing to live up to what she "needed." Never told me I should work harder. With my depression/anxiety, she always told me she understood, and that she was there for me. (Again, as my therapist said, I know part of the "reality" was that while she said she was there for me, she did not take the actual physical steps to help, such as making the house less nightmarish, getting a job herself to reduce my stress, etc.)

Again, the sex was great as well. (For me at least - she said it was for her, but again, she lied about so many other things, so how do I know?) I read so many stories about wives withholding sex as part of relationship gamesmanship, being uninterested and having sex only once a month, etc. This is important for me as well, because while I am the appropriate weight and height, I was very overweight when I was younger (I lost around 140 pounds over 15 years ago, and have kept it off ever since). Having that kind of weight into your early-to-mid 20s does things to your body that losing the weight won't undo. So while I'm technically in decent physical shape (6'2", 185 lbs) and was for almost all of the marriage (I lost the weight around three years into the marriage), I have definite body issues. They are not things that I can resolve in a gym (e.g. you cannot make loose skin from losing 140 pounds go away by working out - I've tried, and doctors have told me that it is not going to work).

I don't want to make it sound like I'm the Elephant Man or something, but she seemed accepting of those things as well, which is something I worry about with other women. (Hell, her having an affair has jacked up the typical "am I big enough" issues that I assume a lot of men have, that I also think about far too often. Way too much disclosure, I know, but I'm just throwing it out there.)

Basically, she seemed like an incredibly sweet, caring person, emotionally at least. She was bright, intelligent, and I felt like she really understood me, and did not judge me. I loved what I thought was her spirit - her creative side, her quirky nature, her playfulness. (I think she did not believe that, because I had criticized some of those aspects of her, but I tried to make clear my problem was not with those aspects, but that she spent tons of money on art stuff that she would just pack away in a closet and never use, that part of the quirkiness and playfulness came at the expense of actually "doing" things like a job, housework, etc.)

It is really hard to answer. Basically, I told myself some years ago that she was not going to change those qualities that were problematic (not working, spending too much, etc.), and that I could either let those qualities drive me nuts or I could stop complaining about them and live with them, because I thought the person and her base goodness and spirit were worth it. That's what I did. But I wonder if I did that by somehow becoming more withdrawn. I don't know.


----------



## Regretf

Ribbit said:


> That's really difficult. Does it make sense to say that the things about her that were negatives were generally "physical" types of things (I don't mean physical as in her body, I mean as opposed to mental/emotional) - spending way too much money, being late all the time, never actually getting a job, kind of lazing about all day, being completely slobby and making the house a terrible place to live, etc.
> 
> But emotionally, she always felt like she was there. She never complained about me (at least to me - I later found out she certainly did to others). Never nagged me. Never talked about how I was failing to live up to what she "needed." Never told me I should work harder. With my depression/anxiety, she always told me she understood, and that she was there for me. (Again, as my therapist said, I know part of the "reality" was that while she said she was there for me, she did not take the actual physical steps to help, such as making the house less nightmarish, getting a job herself to reduce my stress, etc.)
> 
> Again, the sex was great as well. (For me at least - she said it was for her, but again, she lied about so many other things, so how do I know?) I read so many stories about wives withholding sex as part of relationship gamesmanship, being uninterested and having sex only once a month, etc. This is important for me as well, because while I am the appropriate weight and height, I was very overweight when I was younger (I lost around 140 pounds over 15 years ago, and have kept it off ever since). Having that kind of weight into your early-to-mid 20s does things to your body that losing the weight won't undo. So while I'm technically in decent physical shape (6'2", 185 lbs) and was for almost all of the marriage (I lost the weight around three years into the marriage), I have definite body issues. They are not things that I can resolve in a gym (e.g. you cannot make loose skin from losing 140 pounds go away by working out - I've tried, and doctors have told me that it is not going to work).
> 
> I don't want to make it sound like I'm the Elephant Man or something, but she seemed accepting of those things as well, which is something I worry about with other women. (Hell, her having an affair has jacked up the typical "am I big enough" issues that I assume a lot of men have, that I also think about far too often. Way too much disclosure, I know, but I'm just throwing it out there.)
> 
> Basically, she seemed like an incredibly sweet, caring person, emotionally at least. She was bright, intelligent, and I felt like she really understood me, and did not judge me. I loved what I thought was her spirit - her creative side, her quirky nature, her playfulness. (I think she did not believe that, because I had criticized some of those aspects of her, but I tried to make clear my problem was not with those aspects, but that she spent tons of money on art stuff that she would just pack away in a closet and never use, that part of the quirkiness and playfulness came at the expense of actually "doing" things like a job, housework, etc.)
> 
> It is really hard to answer. Basically, I told myself some years ago that she was not going to change those qualities that were problematic (not working, spending too much, etc.), and that I could either let those qualities drive me nuts or I could stop complaining about them and live with them, because I thought the person and her base goodness and spirit were worth it. That's what I did. But I wonder if I did that by somehow becoming more withdrawn. I don't know.


I understand perfectly what you are feeling. I'm going thru the same, not quite the long marriage but still. i have my moments of regrets where i go back and think of how could have done things differently and if i had loved her more, showed her more, been there more, been the man she wanted me to be or saw in me when we got married, but i can't i can't and right now i do feel like i lost everything in my life (imagine what you are going thru but with a small child). Days are long sometimes but all i can do is work on myself and correct my mistakes and learn from them so i won't get trapped like in my M.

Shure i wish i had another chance to do things differently, but God only knows why things happen, to learn from them.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you did the best you could with what you had, nobody teaches us to be good spouses or parents, we learn along the way. Some people can learn to be happy with themselves, have hobbies or interests that fullfill them therefore need less of a partner to "complete" them or fullfill them, i don't know if it makes sense, but it was not your duty to make your ex happy, shure you should have been an integral part of that but not the guardian of her happiness.

She's not a happy fullfilled person, she's looking around for influences to make her happy, hence the affair, that won't last, until she finds her true self and learns to live with that she won't be happy or in a fullfill relationship.

Let her crash and burn, one day, and it will be late, you will meet a wonderfull lady who will make your days better and who will love you for who you are, you would have learn from your past shortcomings and your ex will look at you with sadness because of her actions, you will be happy and she will see that she helped you become a better person but it won't be for her but for somebody else.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ribbit said:


> But then I keep going back to the notion of thinking that she must have walked away for a reason - people do not leave great relationships.



Go over to the coping with infidelty section and read up on some of the strange goings on there. People in great marriages, not so great, and mild to mediocre get cheated on. 

It cant be ALL you.


----------



## Regretf

Ribbit said:


> But then I keep going back to the notion of thinking that she must have walked away for a reason - people do not leave great relationships.


Problem is that you saw the M as great while she didn't. People cheat for all sorts of reasons, yeah it's low and degrating.

Always remember that she chose this, she chose to cheat, you might have been an Ok or so-so husband but nothing you did deserved to be cheated on.

That's on HER. I don't undertsand how people with kids can cheat. I mean when they get caught what are they going to say to justify it to them?


----------



## daddymikey1975

3Xnocharm said:


> Perspective, here...was she REALLY the love of your life? Or was she just the old familiar and comfortable? Were you really happy? Were you really fulfilled? Would you really have wanted to live the next 40 years of your life in that relationship exactly as it was before you split? Also, keep in mind that the woman cheated on you.


This is exactly how OP.


----------



## Ribbit

She of course said the cheating (well, again, she denied a physical affair and heavily downplayed the emotional affair) really had nothing to do with it. That she wanted to leave for a long time, and tried to stay to keep me happy. She basically apologized for getting the order wrong, and said she was going to leave and did not expect to find the other person as part of that.


----------



## Acoa

Ribbit said:


> She of course said the cheating (well, again, she denied a physical affair and heavily downplayed the emotional affair) really had nothing to do with it. That she wanted to leave for a long time, and tried to stay to keep me happy. She basically apologized for getting the order wrong, and said she was going to leave and did not expect to find the other person as part of that.


She is full of sh1t. She may believe that, but that still doesn't make it true. It's classic blame shifting that all cheaters do during affairs. The feel good hormones are a drug, and like addicts they say, do and even believe things that are ludicrous just to justify themselves. 

So, first and foremost, do not accept the blame and shame for her affair that she is trying to heap on you!

There are 3 problems in every marriage, his, hers and theirs. Own yours and your half of theirs. But her choice to cheat was her problem, and it spoiled any chance to work on the relationship. 

So, to move on, look at your actions, yes. But don't connect them to her reason to have an affair and leave. And don't buy into her BS that she was going to leave anyway. If that were true, when you asked if everything was okay, she owed it to you to tell you NO. When she said yes, everything is great, she took away your chance to work on the relationship by pretending there were no problems. 

My ex was a lot like yours. And I bought her crap for a long time, because she was so good at serving it up. It's time for you to see it for what it is and get pissed about it. And be glad that crazy element is removed from your life.


----------



## Ribbit

Acoa said:


> She is full of sh1t. She may believe that, but that still doesn't make it true. It's classic blame shifting that all cheaters do during affairs. The feel good hormones are a drug, and like addicts they say, do and even believe things that are ludicrous just to justify themselves.
> 
> So, first and foremost, do not accept the blame and shame for her affair that she is trying to heap on you!
> 
> There are 3 problems in every marriage, his, hers and theirs. Own yours and your half of theirs. But her choice to cheat was her problem, and it spoiled any chance to work on the relationship.
> 
> So, to move on, look at your actions, yes. But don't connect them to her reason to have an affair and leave. And don't buy into her BS that she was going to leave anyway. If that were true, when you asked if everything was okay, she owed it to you to tell you NO. When she said yes, everything is great, she took away your chance to work on the relationship by pretending there were no problems.
> 
> My ex was a lot like yours. And I bought her crap for a long time, because she was so good at serving it up. It's time for you to see it for what it is and get pissed about it. And be glad that crazy element is removed from your life.


That's what I try to say to myself rationally.

But another thing I do is take the affair out of the equation. I ask myself, okay, what if there was no affair? Say she really had just told you she was done, burnt-out, and leaving. Would you be guilty of causing the marriage to fail?

Ultimately, I do think that she should have told me she was unhappy. I do question whether her "unhappiness" was reasonable (I could argue that she got to live a life where she did not work, and had the ability to explore whatever interests and hobbies she wanted, because she had so much more free-time and money than most people).

I do not want to feel guilty, and I can make arguments (she should have said something, most marriages are not going to involve the couple doing everything together, marriages do "settle down" into mundane things like watching television, etc.). I can believe that if she had said something directly, like, "Ribbit, I really feel like we are growing apart, and I'm worried about the marriage, can we do more things together," that I would have genuinely tried.

But again, that voice then comes up and says, "Maybe she did try to say that in her own way, and you missed it." Or, "Why should someone have to tell you something so freaking obvious like 'spend more time with your wife.'"

Hell, then I also begin to question whether I am overstating how "absent" I was. I also know fully well that I may be excessively critical on myself, and portraying what was just me being an introvert and homebody into some type of Howard Hughs like neglectful recluse.


----------



## WasDecimated

Ribbit, our XWW’s sound like the same person, from the laziness to the communication issues. 

My XWW never told me she was unhappy either. I tried talking to her about “us” countless times and I always got the same response from her…everything is fine…we’re fine, don’t be silly…I’m happy…I love you. I am not a mind reader so I trusted her...that's my fault.

I also felt horribly guilty about everything. She actually had me believing that it was all my fault…classic blame-shifting. That’s where the guilt came from…not from me…but from her. When I would ask her why? The answers were lame…made no sense. They were just excuses and mindless crap to justify her choices…not based in reality. I replayed our entire 16 year marriage in my mind for years looking for anything that I may have done to drive her to cheating. In the end, I could find nothing significant that I could have changed in my love, affection, attention or the way I treated her that would have changed the outcome. However, looking back, I did realize that She was very selfish, secretive, dishonest, lazy, ungrateful, emotionally immature, horrible coping skills and had major communication issues. 

The truth is, her actions were probably inevitable. Sooner or later she would have done this. It didn’t matter what kind of husband you were. It didn’t matter how good your marriage was. It didn’t matter what kind of life you provided her…opportunity presented itself and with her lack of integrity, she pursued it. It also didn’t matter who OM he was. Anyone that showed her attention…was in. My XWW’s boyfriend dumped her right before our divorce was final. That say's it all. I’m betting that your XWW’s fling will end fiery crash as well.

When someone betrays you in this way and then blames you, or allows you to blame yourself, it strips away all of your confidence, dignity, self-esteem, sense of trust and security. It makes you question and doubt everything you were and are. The truth is she was the one lacking all of these things. What she did says everything about her…not you.

Think about this. Those who have the least amount invested in the relationship...have the least amount to lose. She put in little, so it meant little to her.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Ribbit just read my thread so you can see where it goes from here.. I had similar issues.. 

I gamed much more..

Keep searching for a good therapist.. It helped me out TONS... 

I'm not gonna lie.. Dating helped me out.. Losing weight helped me out.. 

You eventually get to a point where you realize that you can find a woman 10 years younger than your ex wife that makes 10x more money than her and is 10x better looking..

You truly wonder what the fvck was I so upset about ?.. 

But before you get there, you need to go through TONS of Bullsh!t emotions.. 

I am telling you, you will see.. Now I notice more and more, there are tons of women here in NYC that are in my same shoes and are looking for a good man.. 

But again you have to go through all that stuff before getting to a good place.. I wish there was a magic potion or a spell I could tell you to speed this up.. Sadly there isn't.. 

But I can tell you in the end you come out stronger, smarter and more of an adult.. At 46 ( now 48) I grew up.. 

As far as your Ex wife.. She played you.. My Ex wife was looking to do the same but I caught her.. But she still pretended to want to fix this and dragged me along for another 4 months and then another 3 months openly leaving home to go fvck this guy and then coming back home... Oddly enough I think you are lucky you found out after and didn't catch her and she faked reconciling and doing that sh!t to you..

By what it sounds from what she has said to you, it seems she would not have any issues crushing you even more if you caught her.. So you're lucky in that respects..

Keep posting.. 

My story is labeled my mistake in my signature..


----------



## toolforgrowth

I made similar mistakes in my marriage. My xWW was a total shrew who dominated me, and I let her. Instead of standing up for myself and establishing (and enforcing) boundaries, I withdrew into gaming myself. There were a lot of things wrong I did in my marriage.

But there were also many things I did _right_. Things that I could be proud of, that any man can be proud of. She chose to focus solely on the negative and none on the positive. Because of that, she is one of those people who can never truly find happiness.

I faced the same guilt as you are facing now for quite a while. But what really got me through it was me knowing I did everything I could to save my marriage and family. I set up MC sessions before I found out about her affair; she chose to only go to two.

But I kept going on my own. For a year and a half.

When I found out about her affair, I was done with her. I basically employed scorched earth tactics and she began to really face the consequences of what she did. After we settled in court (but before my attorney drafted the papers to sign) her AP dumped her and she threw her lure back into my pond.

I basically told her there was no chance in hell. And proceeded with the divorce full steam ahead. It was the best decision I ever made.

I sleep soundly at night, three years later, knowing I did everything I could and that I tried my best. I realized that I was able to move forward with no regrets because of that. And I've done exactly that. My life couldn't be better; I have a great new career, a relationship with my daughter that has become stronger as the years passed, a lovely lady in my life who treats me with respect and dignity (and who loves playing the naked fun game with me!), and a wonderful circle of friends. I've traveled to places I've never been. I'm making more money than I've ever made. 

She just got remarried to a young guy, who seems nice and is a good guy. He treats my daughter well, and for that I'm very grateful. But she doesn't look happy. I ran into her at the store a couple weeks ago, and she looked b!tchy. I immediately felt pity for her new H. My daughter says that she yells at the other kids pretty frequently (the other kids being her step-kids). It doesn't surprise me in the least.

I'm not trying to threadjack. I just want to paint a picture of what it can be like for you a few short years out. It seems like such a long time, but really it's not. You can come out the other side of this so much better, and stronger, and happier. Let your WW go. It's honestly the best thing you can do. And then live life for _yourself_.

And most importantly, never let the woman in your life define who you are or determine your value. Only you can do that.


----------



## sammy3

toolforgrowth said:


> I made similar mistakes in my marriage. My xWW was a total shrew who dominated me, and I let her. Instead of standing up for myself and establishing (and enforcing) boundaries, I withdrew into gaming myself. There were a lot of things wrong I did in my marriage.
> 
> But there were also many things I did _right_. Things that I could be proud of, that any man can be proud of. She chose to focus solely on the negative and none on the positive. Because of that, she is one of those people who can never truly find happiness.
> 
> I faced the same guilt as you are facing now for quite a while. But what really got me through it was me knowing I did everything I could to save my marriage and family. I set up MC sessions before I found out about her affair; she chose to only go to two.
> 
> But I kept going on my own. For a year and a half.
> 
> When I found out about her affair, I was done with her. I basically employed scorched earth tactics and she began to really face the consequences of what she did. After we settled in court (but before my attorney drafted the papers to sign) her AP dumped her and she threw her lure back into my pond.
> 
> I basically told her there was no chance in hell. And proceeded with the divorce full steam ahead. It was the best decision I ever made.
> 
> I sleep soundly at night, three years later, knowing I did everything I could and that I tried my best. I realized that I was able to move forward with no regrets because of that. And I've done exactly that. My life couldn't be better; I have a great new career, a relationship with my daughter that has become stronger as the years passed, a lovely lady in my life who treats me with respect and dignity (and who loves playing the naked fun game with me!), and a wonderful circle of friends. I've traveled to places I've never been. I'm making more money than I've ever made.
> 
> She just got remarried to a young guy, who seems nice and is a good guy. He treats my daughter well, and for that I'm very grateful. But she doesn't look happy. I ran into her at the store a couple weeks ago, and she looked b!tchy. I immediately felt pity for her new H. My daughter says that she yells at the other kids pretty frequently (the other kids being her step-kids). It doesn't surprise me in the least.
> 
> I'm not trying to threadjack. I just want to paint a picture of what it can be like for you a few short years out. It seems like such a long time, but really it's not. You can come out the other side of this so much better, and stronger, and happier. Let your WW go. It's honestly the best thing you can do. And then live life for _yourself_.
> 
> And most importantly, never let the woman in your life define who you are or determine your value. Only you can do that.


Very Interesting...do you think if R happened, you'd be this happy, or because R didnt happen, your this happy? 

~sammy


----------



## toolforgrowth

sammy3 said:


> toolforgrowth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I made similar mistakes in my marriage. My xWW was a total shrew who dominated me, and I let her. Instead of standing up for myself and establishing (and enforcing) boundaries, I withdrew into gaming myself. There were a lot of things wrong I did in my marriage.
> 
> But there were also many things I did _right_. Things that I could be proud of, that any man can be proud of. She chose to focus solely on the negative and none on the positive. Because of that, she is one of those people who can never truly find happiness.
> 
> I faced the same guilt as you are facing now for quite a while. But what really got me through it was me knowing I did everything I could to save my marriage and family. I set up MC sessions before I found out about her affair; she chose to only go to two.
> 
> But I kept going on my own. For a year and a half.
> 
> When I found out about her affair, I was done with her. I basically employed scorched earth tactics and she began to really face the consequences of what she did. After we settled in court (but before my attorney drafted the papers to sign) her AP dumped her and she threw her lure back into my pond.
> 
> I basically told her there was no chance in hell. And proceeded with the divorce full steam ahead. It was the best decision I ever made.
> 
> I sleep soundly at night, three years later, knowing I did everything I could and that I tried my best. I realized that I was able to move forward with no regrets because of that. And I've done exactly that. My life couldn't be better; I have a great new career, a relationship with my daughter that has become stronger as the years passed, a lovely lady in my life who treats me with respect and dignity (and who loves playing the naked fun game with me!), and a wonderful circle of friends. I've traveled to places I've never been. I'm making more money than I've ever made.
> 
> She just got remarried to a young guy, who seems nice and is a good guy. He treats my daughter well, and for that I'm very grateful. But she doesn't look happy. I ran into her at the store a couple weeks ago, and she looked b!tchy. I immediately felt pity for her new H. My daughter says that she yells at the other kids pretty frequently (the other kids being her step-kids). It doesn't surprise me in the least.
> 
> I'm not trying to threadjack. I just want to paint a picture of what it can be like for you a few short years out. It seems like such a long time, but really it's not. You can come out the other side of this so much better, and stronger, and happier. Let your WW go. It's honestly the best thing you can do. And then live life for _yourself_.
> 
> And most importantly, never let the woman in your life define who you are or determine your value. Only you can do that.
> 
> 
> 
> Very Interesting...do you think if R happened, you'd be this happy, or because R didnt happen, your this happy?
> 
> ~sammy
Click to expand...

I'm this happy because R didn't happen. My xWW is a classic narcissist whom I believe is incapable of change. She will continue living her life in relative chaos, destroying the lives of others around her in the process. I have no faith that she would ever get better. Not having to go through what I know would have been false R saved be and my daughter precious time and future heartache.

She failed to show me true remorse. That's the bottom line. And I became so much stronger without her that I was fully aware of that fact and moved on happily.


----------



## Chuck71

If you know in your heart you gave 110%.... hold your head high.

When I ended things with my ex gf, I did feel a touch of guilt.

She followed me around like a lost puppy for two days. I was more

than open to listening. She wanted to work things out so I flipped the tables

and bounced the ball in her court. She thought just showing up was all

that was needed. And we were living together. Had I bowed to Co-D and just

accepted thing as they were.... where do you think I would be now?

Yeah...... not good huh?


----------



## Jellybeans

Ribbit, 

Your feelings are normal if that is where your headspace is at. Realize, nobody on this green earth is perfect. She isn't a saint and neither are you. You guys had a marriage, two children and now a new chapter in your life has begun. 

Keep doing you counseling/therapy and get out with old friends/get exercise/sunlight.

Eventually those guilt/regret feelings will disappear more and more. You may always have a sadness over it/about it, but realize, that was then and this is now. 

In time, you will start to feel a little better, little by little, til one day it isn't going to hurt as bad.


----------



## 2ntnuf

> "I think you need me more than you want me"


Translation: I feel like your mother, not your lover. I don't feel the animalistic sexual desire for me that I need to be in a relationship/marriage. Sometimes this means that she didn't feel it for you. She felt like your mother through no fault of your own. 

So, depending on the two involved, it can mean one or the other. Then, you get into things like, did she ever? Did I never? All kinds of mind bending crapola. Best to hash this stuff out with a counselor where you can dig deep into it and then into whatever you find out from there. Otherwise, you will be suffering until your mind tells you it's okay. One day it could blind-side you and you'll have to work through a bigger pile of stuff. 

Whatever the excuse, it's all justification for the one leaving to allow themselves to hurt the one they loved and who they know loves them. Unless there were some extenuating circumstances, you can be certain that no one is free from their own issues. Admitting that, and/or knowing they have them, is something else.


----------



## Ribbit

Ahead of all of this, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who posted. I feel in a better place right now. I know from past experience that it might not last, that I might be back into those heavy feelings of self-guilt in a few days. Who knows. I know from my experience so far that these things go in cycles, and you can feel like you're making progress and then lapse back.

But that is part of the path following divorce (and infidelity), I know, and this type of thing has helped me process things and keep crawling forward.



Decimated said:


> The truth is, her actions were probably inevitable. Sooner or later she would have done this. It didn’t matter what kind of husband you were. It didn’t matter how good your marriage was. It didn’t matter what kind of life you provided her…opportunity presented itself and with her lack of integrity, she pursued it. It also didn’t matter who OM he was. Anyone that showed her attention…was in. My XWW’s boyfriend dumped her right before our divorce was final. That say's it all. I’m betting that your XWW’s fling will end fiery crash as well.


That makes sense. You are right about the OM - he does not seem like much of a "catch" (mutual friends have agreed - obviously they're going to be biased, but he does not particularly seem like a winner). Of course, I do not think my ex-wife particularly cares about that. She is an odd person in a lot of ways (some of those ways are what I originally found charming).

That being said, one thing that I do think I'm doing a decent job about is not particularly caring what happens to her relationship with him going forward. Can I say I would love to see it succeed? Well, no, not really. But I'm also not wrapped up emotionally in seeing it fail.

I realize that if my focus is on that relationship failing, then (i) I'm going to be let down if it does succeed; and (ii) I'm going to be focusing on them and their relationship, instead of me, which is where my focus belongs.



Decimated said:


> When someone betrays you in this way and then blames you, or allows you to blame yourself, it strips away all of your confidence, dignity, self-esteem, sense of trust and security. It makes you question and doubt everything you were and are. The truth is she was the one lacking all of these things. What she did says everything about her…not you.
> 
> Think about this. Those who have the least amount invested in the relationship...have the least amount to lose. She put in little, so it meant little to her.


That makes sense. I never really thought about it that way (with respect to her not having put herself into the relationship, and therefore having less difficulty walking away).



Hardtohandle said:


> I'm not gonna lie.. Dating helped me out.. Losing weight helped me out..
> 
> You eventually get to a point where you realize that you can find a woman 10 years younger than your ex wife that makes 10x more money than her and is 10x better looking..


Yes, I have just started (as in one date) dating a woman. She seems nice. Concerned that there could be a few red flags (not sure yet, they also could be perfectly ok), but I think in some ways that is good. I need to learn to protect myself better, and not go into things and end up in the same place as I was with my wife.

What I need to do is understand that I can date people and be in relationships without throwing all of myself into it right away. That I can be casual (but fair, letting the other person know where we are, and where I am). That I do not have to overlook and accept bad behavior because the other person says they care about me (or because I care about them).



Hardtohandle said:


> As far as your Ex wife.. She played you.. My Ex wife was looking to do the same but I caught her.. But she still pretended to want to fix this and dragged me along for another 4 months and then another 3 months openly leaving home to go fvck this guy and then coming back home... Oddly enough I think you are lucky you found out after and didn't catch her and she faked reconciling and doing that sh!t to you..


She definitely did play me, you're right. She took so much out of the relationship from a standpoint of being taken care of, not working, not really doing anything. 



toolforgrowth said:


> I made similar mistakes in my marriage. My xWW was a total shrew who dominated me, and I let her. Instead of standing up for myself and establishing (and enforcing) boundaries, I withdrew into gaming myself. There were a lot of things wrong I did in my marriage.


Yes, that does sound very similar. Basically, I know there are things that I will try to fix in the next relationship (if that happens).



toolforgrowth said:


> I faced the same guilt as you are facing now for quite a while. But what really got me through it was me knowing I did everything I could to save my marriage and family. I set up MC sessions before I found out about her affair; she chose to only go to two.


Thanks. You are right. I can say this as well. I wanted marital counseling. I offered to go to individual counseling. I offered for us both to go to individual counseling and/or marital counseling. Basically, anything that we could have done to work things out, to try to communicate and change things.

She wanted nothing to do with it, and that is on her. I tried my best to fix things.


----------



## Regretf

Ribbit said:


> She wanted nothing to do with it, and that is on her. I tried my best to fix things.


And like you said that is all on her. Her loss. Looking back if she doesn't end up being in a better place/relationship/position in life in the future she will look back and see that she didn't give it all and will wonder the famous what if? Specially if you are doing better and with somebody else. Most people do this.

I go thru days were i put the blame on myself and the fail M what if?, what if i did this, what if i didn't do that, what if i paid more attention to what she was feeling. You know what?, IDK if it would have made any difference at this point. She wanted out, that's on her. She wasn't happy, M wasn't what she expected, that's on her also, she had grand expectations that were not fullfilled, also on her.

You can walk proud that you did the best that you could, you tried everything. Your W is a selfish person, bad person, she tought shyte of your kids, and that's what you should always remembered, she cheated on you, your M and your kids. Whenever you have those feelings of self-guilt and regret (and you will, same as me and a lot of goodhearted people) remember that she quit on the M, not you.


----------



## 2ntnuf

:iagree:


----------



## toolforgrowth

Ribbit said:


> She wanted nothing to do with it, and that is on her. I tried my best to fix things.


Yup. That's it exactly.

I think this is what eats at my xWW today, three years later. I tried, she didn't. So when I walked away, I really walked away. And I can't imagine that she hasn't looked at me once during that entire time and thought to herself:

1) He's lost weight, got new clothes, and looks really good
2) He's gotten a much better job in a career he's always wanted making a lot more money
3) He's a much better father to our daughter
4) Other women are desiring him

Could you look at that and not think to yourself, "Damn, I really wish I'd have tried harder."

Over the years she's done little things that show me she's thinking about me. She'll send a video to my phone of our daughter out of the blue unsolicited (I never do this), she put some of our wedding photos in our daughter's school backpack for almost a year, and she was super nice to me for quite a while. And every time she showed up at my front door, she'd look so unhappy; her face was drawn, she could barely look me in the eye, and she was very very quiet.

She flat out told me that she didn't have any faith I was going to change when we separated. I'm certain she used that to justify her affair.

Well, she was wrong. And she gets to live with that fact for the rest of her life, while I sleep comfortably knowing I did everything I could.

It _really_ is on her. She made her choice, and she gets to live with it.


----------



## Chuck71

When our D was waiting to become final, I went through a phase where I

felt guilty for being a failure. But you have to keep in mind... what ever 

bothered my XW was something inside her. She never tried to share this

with me.....and chose to attempt to get us to a "do your own thing marriage."

I chose no and dropped the D on her. Funny she was the one who wanted to

works things out as the final date approached.... and several times since then.

When I walked into the light.... NFW I would turn back


----------



## SamuraiJack

When my divorce was in process, I was feeling all kinds of things.
Turns out the final date was very near my birthday which is a touchy subject to begin with.
A few days there were really dark…but if you allow the days to pass they do.

Fast forward three years…

I’m doing great! My kids are finally getting that their mother is a workaholic and forgets all kinds of stuff that is important. She looks like she has aged ten more years since she left while I was mistaken for someone in their mid-30’s a few weeks ago. I’m 49. I’m working slowly on my house and in the Spring it will be time to start flushing out the garage as a wood shop.
My GF and I have been together for nearly three years. The kids slip up and call her Mom all the time and we simply laugh. Her son and the girls get along great. Every other weekend is weird as we all get together and goof off. 
Every other weekend besides those are special weekends for GF and I.

Meanwhile the ex…who may or may not have cheated ( must start a thread about that someday…) but probably did is alone and too busy to have any relationships except with her toxic friend she made at the gym. She had a guy she leaped onto just days after the gavel hit the table, but he disappeared after 8 months. She has an entangled mother who she HAS to have around all the time when holidays are near so she is going broke paying for her plane tickets…and the final straw?

After being warned by her doctor and shown scans of interstitial scarring on her lungs…she has taken up smoking again.

She has also rewritten history to the point where she recently declared me to be “two faced and insincere”…this coming from a woman who lied to me for nearly a year and then spent the next year teasing me about reconciliation..

Use the pain and doubt you have now to improve yourself…just you…not her. That work will make you much more ready and available for the better woman who is INEVITABLY coming down the road.

She will be here in a while…you want to be ready for her.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Ribbit said:


> I look at the things I did wrong, and if I acknowledge them fully, I just feel this horrible pain that does not go away that I irreparably lost the love of my life.


Remorseless cheater, lazy slob and this is the love of your life???

This woman has mind f*cked you and warped your sense of reality. She literally served you a sh!t sandwich and now you're mad at yourself because you don't like the way it tastes. You got it backwards buddy.

You need to accept a few facts:

1) She USED you. You were better than nothing but because SHE didn't want to be alone. Once she found her replacement security blanket you were done. You never had a chance.

2) She does not love you and nothing you did was going to change that. You are in so much pain because you loved her but you're in love with an illusion. She was pretending to care about you and exploited you for her benefit.

3) She is a selfish POS. Accept that. Her loverboy will tire of her eventually. When ugly people get together eventually they turn on each other. Regardless, that's not your concern anymore but be weary she may try to come crawling back. Don't be the fool she thinks you are. 

4) Your ONLY goal in life should be to live as successfully as you can. Get a hot new girl, advance your career, workout and enjoy life to the fullest. Only talk to her with a sh!t eating grin on your face like she did you the biggest favor of your life because she has. She set you free.


----------



## sammy3

What I am having issues with, I'm the BS and I wonder about me not trying all I could after my hub begged to repair the marriage, did all he could, and still trying. We went to MC & IC, but the moment he confessed, in my heart the very next second, I knew for me the marriage was over. 

I feel I never tried to work on it at all. I just stood here in this marriage trying to recover, grow myself, take care of myself, and put myself back together again. I couldnt even think to add loving him into that mix. 

I wonder so often why did I not try? This was a good marriage, a long term marriage... we were good with each other... talk about guilt, & I dont know about the regret yet, other than how he changed us. 

~sammy


----------



## Chuck71

sammy3 said:


> What I am having issues with, I'm the BS and I wonder about me not trying all I could after my hub begged to repair the marriage, did all he could, and still trying. We went to MC & IC, but the moment he confessed, in my heart the very next second, I knew for me the marriage was over.
> 
> I feel I never tried to work on it at all. I just stood here in this marriage trying to recover, grow myself, take care of myself, and put myself back together again. I cant even think to add loving him into that mix.
> 
> I wonder so often why did I not try? This was a good marriage, a long term marriage... we were good with each other... talk about guilt, & I dont know about the regret yet, other than how he changed us.
> 
> ~sammy


Keep in mind..... he cheated on you. You can not love if you have no trust


----------



## Holland

Give yourself more time, feel the feelings but don't let them weigh you down.

Your ex is a cheater, she has lost all rights, do not get caught up in feelings of regret or guilt over a relationship that was not honest.

Wishing you all the best for your future, there can be a fantastic life after divorce, it is up to you.


----------



## sammy3

Holland said:


> Wishing you all the best for your future, there can be a fantastic life after divorce, it is up to you.


I know you are so right, it's just getting there that's such a challenge, to own ones own beliefs, looking at it all and changing ones life as one has know it. 

~sammy


----------

