# She suggested separation



## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

My wife and I have been married for just over 12 years and have two kids. We lived together for a few years before we got married, so all told we've been an exclusive couple for about 16 years.

I don't know how everything came to this, except for two big issues. 

A) We fight about sex. It's exactly the same as so many other posts here. I want to have more sex and felt for a long time like she wasn't attracted to me. She has a low drive and says it's not about me at all.

B) Two years ago, a guy at her workplace began pursuing her and she loved the attention. They didn't have sex, but did go as far as kissing (I've seen conversations they had online where this as confirmed). True to what she said in point #1 above, she said she wasn't really turned on by him--it was just a huge ego boost.

With (A) already on the table, (B) hit me like a ton of self-esteem crushing bricks. I talked her almost to death about the EA at work, to the point where we'd fight about just talking about it! I also started questioning her relationships with other men, one or two in particular who I thought she was "too interested" in.

I came on to TAM and started putting together the pieces. I ended up with the conclusion that my wife wasn't really sexually attracted to me because she didn't respect me enough. Typical MMSL stuff. I've never been an alpha male, so I tried to bring that side out more. I started noticing how my wife would sometimes speak to me in condescending ways, how she would lose her temper with me and make me feel stupid for screwing something up or forgetting, etc. I decided I needed point these things out, to call her on it when I felt disrespected.

Somehow it backfired. Instead of becoming the cool alpha who commands respect, I apparently turned into an overly sensitive and angry person with a short temper of his own. 

Whatever the case, my wife now says she's tired of it. She's tired of being a disappointment about sex and about how she treats me, tired of me being jealous and worried that she is looking for an affair. 

After a ridiculous argument last night, where I had too much to drink and once again played up the "disrespect" card, she says she thinks we should separate.

How did this happen? More importantly, can I fix it, and how?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Think longer about why you want to fix it ... with this woman.

The more you chase her the further away she will run.

You truly need to back off, and stop even thinking about having a sexual relationship with this woman, until you have a much better idea of where you stand, and where she stands. You are afraid and angry because you fear losing her. Point being, the more you express those emotions, the more likely it is you will manifest the result you don't want. 

Your emotional state cannot help you or your circumstances at all.

Don't say another word about separation. Don't bring it up. If she does, or gets courageous enough to inquire or suggest that you move out ... make it clear that if she wants to separate, she's free to go look for a place. 

Most importantly for you right now? STOP TALKING. You simply must stop engaging your wife. That doesn't mean go silent. It just means you need to stop insisting on talking about the relationship or insisting on a resolution.

Communication is very important. It is also very important to recognize when you you AREN'T communicating. And you aren't, you can't ... not now.

Back off, chill out. Get a hold of yourself and your emotions.


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks Deejo. That's actually really helpful. I think you're right about me shutting up. Me talking about the relationship so much and focusing on it so much has made me hypersensitive to all of it.

I do know the separation is going to come up tonight when we're both together again. Once she makes a decision, she's usually pretty quick to act on it. It's hard to just let her go when I don't want to just let her go.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Unless she tells you she's moving out, it ain't 'her' decision.

If she insists you be the one to move out, simply say "No."
And don't say another word. Do not engage her. Start practicing reduced communication.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Who,

While I agree with EVERYTHING Deejo says, I also can't help but wonder what effect her EA is having/had on her.

I'd guess that she sees herself as having her next meal ticket lined up and she enjoying all the attention she's getting from him.

What ever happened with this work EA? Is the guy still there and could it have started up again?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

WhoIsIt said:


> Thanks Deejo. That's actually really helpful. I think you're right about me shutting up. Me talking about the relationship so much and focusing on it so much has made me hypersensitive to all of it.
> 
> I do know the separation is going to come up tonight when we're both together again. Once she makes a decision, she's usually pretty quick to act on it. It's hard to just let her go when I don't want to just let her go.


A big part of the improvement journey you began, whether you call it being more alpha, or just more of an equal in the relationship, is learning how to manage arguments that arise from unrealistic demands. 

As others said, the choice to move out should be completely on her. But there is an element of handling arguments that I don't see discussed very often. Usually, in a situation like yours, your wife has managed to define the debate in her terms, and effectively has the higher ground. You just find yourself reeling, and trying to react to the new "truths" that are established as legitimate along the way. Now "the truth" has become that the two of you will seperate, and likely it includes the implication that you are the one going away.

Being more alpha includes growth in this instinctive ability to set the ground rules, or the narrative, for any new argument that arises out of unfair demands. It takes time, and more importantly, confidence in yourself, and the fact that you are only expecting what is right and fair.

Keep in mind that there are many subtle tools used to manage conflict in situations like this. Deejo recommended silence. Keep in mind - bringing up new demands or issues without having a clear understanding of how the message should be delivered, when the other person already owns the narrative, is only asking for the situation to become worse. I'm only suggesting that it may be possible that your attempts to be more alpha in your previous attempts might have backfired because of not effectively managing the underlying conflict within the discussion.

Hate to suggest it, but I really think there is more to it than just refusing to talk about seperation, or making her own the work of moving out. It also includes body language and short replies that reinforces how incredibly wrong and immature her suggestion is, while also establishing your confidence that a good solution can be reached if she would only behave like a mature individual. You can do this while still being respectful of her as a person. Look, seperation was very likely thrown out there because she felt confident that (a)she could make it happen and (b) possibly because such a drastic response, one that would certainly make you feel vulnerable, would end these incessant challenges of yours.

The hesitance at even discussing the way people manage conflict is partly because many could construe it as manipulation. But you aren't asking for something selfish here. You've made it clear that you want a mutually satisfying marriage. 

Confidence is the key. Remind yourself that you are making the mature assumption here - that two married adults should be able to seek compromise and solution. She is responding in haste, possibly playing a control game - so perhaps its best to treat her this way without even saying it when she brings the topic up. Perhaps you can strive to own the narrative of this conflict, even if it is largely through dismissive signals when she brings up such an immature way of handling the situation.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

WhoIsIt said:


> After a ridiculous argument last night, where I had too much to drink and once again ...
> 
> How did this happen? More importantly, can I fix it, and how?


Drinking too much is your problem. When you get a handle on this, then you may have a chance of working out the other issues.


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies.

First, let me address Toffer. The EA ended about two years ago when he left the job then moved out of state. They had some limited contact a few months later, but I was on top of it and due to that and some other factors they stopped talking altogether. It's definitely over at this point.

Ten_year_hubby--you're partly right. I've realized that I lose my cool a lot more when I'm drinking, and while I don't think I depend on alcohol to self-medicate, I don't like the way I talk to her when I've had too much (sorry for the run-on). We both agreed that we've been drinking too much lately, so we're cutting back on my suggestion.

Halien, you couldn't have hit the nail on the head any better. 

Here's where I'm at right now...

We had a long, calm talk about it all last night. I explained to her all the stuff I noted in my first post above, and took responsibility for my poor communication and conflict skills. She explained that she was tired of feeling like she was the source of my unhappiness, and that she had suggested separation because I would be happier and she would feel less guilty. She took responsibility for the way she sometimes treats me and talks to me, but stressed that it's more about her personality and way less about her disrespecting me. Most importantly, she took the time to tell me how important I am to her. Also important--I felt really good about the way I handled this discussion. I set the terms, took the time to explain things, and I felt like she really listened. This is a good step for me.

We both talked about how we didn't used to be like this. We always said we were a great couple, because while she might be hot-headed, I was always the calm one to talk her down. The way she described me, I was already "cool alpha" when it came to conflict before all this stuff happened in the last two years. The key point she wanted to get across is that she is happy in our marriage, except for this new aspect. 

We're not going to separate right now. I won't bring it up again, and I'm going to try really hard to manage any arguments better. At the same time, I'm not going to take any crap from her. I just have to set those boundaries in a constructive way instead of browbeating her for being mean or disrespectful. 

All that said, if I continue to feel disrespected, I might be the one finally willing to separate. I'm actually more open to that possibility at this point, just because I feel like we've now laid all of our cards on the table.

Sorry for the long response.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

B) Two years ago, a guy at her workplace began pursuing her and she loved the attention. 

Don't shoot me.......just curious....... Are you still pursuing your W? Have you two ever discussed why the attentions of this guy lured her into an EA? Is it a possibility that what happens in most marriages happened in yours, ie: you stop doing what you did to attract each other and this is why the fights about sex/ EA occurred?


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

heavensangel said:


> B) Two years ago, a guy at her workplace began pursuing her and she loved the attention.
> 
> Don't shoot me.......just curious....... Are you still pursuing your W? Have you two ever discussed why the attentions of this guy lured her into an EA? Is it a possibility that what happens in most marriages happened in yours, ie: you stop doing what you did to attract each other and this is why the fights about sex/ EA occurred?


No worries--this is a great question. I think I probably had stopped pursuing her, but neither of us realized it. We were in the typical 10+-year rut with kids and work, etc. We have talked about it extensively (part of my problem, see above), and did discover some hidden resentments.

Since the EA it's been a big messy mishmash of intentions, attraction, affection and lack thereof. At this point I think I just want to start over again.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

I think I just want to start over again. 

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is a good sign; one of hope. That's encouraging. 

Might I suggest some books and/or dvd's that we've found helpful in understanding where each of us are coming from: 

Mark Gungor - Men's Brain Women's Brain - YouTube

This is a link to an excerpt from Mark Gungor's Men's Brains, Women's Brains - it's part of his dvd series "Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage'. After someone sending this link to us email, we bought the entire dvd series. He uses humor to get his points across....we were amazed at how right he has it! 

We've also read/completed several studies: His Needs, Her Needs; Love Busters; Love & Respect; For Men Only/For Women Only (links below for audio interviews with the husband/wife authors). We listened to these together and found them to a great addition to reading their books. 

For Men Only

For Women Only

You mentioned Starting Over: Rekindling the Romance by Dennis & Barbara Rainey is a good one for both of you to read as well. 

I hope you find these helpful. I truly wish you and your wife the best.


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