# Emotional Affar is destroying me, help...



## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Hello,

I am a new poster here. I need some advice for my situation with my wife. I am very sorry this is so long, I should have posted here much sooner. I fear I have screwed this up too much now and I need to give as much detail as possible for good advice.

We got married young, she was 22 and I was 27. I am the only guy she has been with sexually as she is very strict on the no sex before marriage thing. We were engaged for 5 years before we got married. We have been married for 7 years this upcoming August 22nd.

Our marriage has been a blast. We are each others best friend. We barely fight and always enjoy each others company most of the time. We have a lot of the same hobbies. There has never been any abuse emotionally, no cheating, no nothing.

About a month ago now my wife was acting very distant one night. I asked her what was wrong and she was very nervous I could tell. She was shaking and almost crying. She said there have been issues in our marriage and she has become completely disconnected from my emotionally. She said she is always worried about my health (I have gained some weight over the years), she said she has NEVER been attracted to me physically, she said she has NEVER had butterflies in her stomach for me, she said she has NEVER enjoyed sex with me and have NEVER had an orgasm and she apologized for saying all this after so many years and that she has been a good actress which is why I didn't know. She said some of this was her fault definitely for not communicating and for not doing her part in the marriage.

I was shattered, it was a feeling I cannot describe, I have been depressed before but this was something else. I had no idea hurt could be this terrible. I was a wet noodle of a man. I wept in front of her that night a little. She held me and then we watched a movie together and I told her I would start working on these issues.

For the next three days I went around in shock blaming myself. On the 3rd day I wrote a letter with all my thoughts saying that I loved her and that I meant every word I said when I married her. I accepted responsibility for the issues she brought up and promised to work on them and that I am not giving up on her or our marriage.

That night she read the letter and came over to me crying and wanted to go for a walk. During the walk she dropped the bomb....."I shouldn't be having crushes on other men when I am a married woman and I am.....well with one guy in particular"

I just kind of listened to her talk during this. She said she had been chatting with this guy over instant messenger and they would bump into each other at the vending machines. There was some flirting and she even barrowed him some of our DVDs from our home (that hurts). Things ended up going to far and they told each other they think the other I cute and that they are falling for each other and they agreed they needed to cut contact because my wife wanted to work on her marriage. She told me she has feelings for this guy that she has never felt before for anyone and that she thinks about him all the time every day and cannot get him out of her head. 

I was shattered before, now I was borderline destroyed. I cried harder that night than I ever have my entire life combined. I kept saying I am sorry. She was actually worried because she had never seen me that destroyed before, like she didn't realize how much this would hurt me at all. I asked if she wanted to try marriage counseling which she said yes to.

That night we held each other in bed, mostly her holding me as I cried my damn eyes out for hours. A day later while in bed I told her out of the blue I thought she was being very selfish in her actions. She got very angry and said she cant help how she feels but I told her we do indeed control how much energy we put into entertaining those feelings. She left the bedroom after a few minutes and slept on the couch. That night she texted me and said "I think we should plan for a separation, I don't want us to fight."

One day later we had our first MC session. It went ok but not good. She said "what really scares me is I can see myself having kids with this other guy but not with my husband" I was like "Do you know how crazy that sounds? You are talking about a guy you have known for 2-3 weeks" she said "I know! I know! I know its crazy." The therapist asked "We need two people that want to work together on this for it to actually work" she also mentioned that we have all the building blocks for a long lasting strong marriage statistically, whatever that means (friendship, common hobbies, a lot of respect for one another...or so I thought). The therapist asked my wife what attracted her to me. My wife started listing off how funny I was and how great my personality was and then she started balling uncontrollably. The therapist asked her what she was feeling at that moment and my wife looked up and said "guilt...a lot of guilt and sadness"

At the end of the session she asked if we both wanted to work on this. I said yes 100%. My wife said she wasn't sure. We scheduled another session for the next week. That night I moved out......yeah...you heard that right, I moved out. Her friend from out of town was staying with us as she just got a new job here so I figured it would be less awkward if I left instead of making my wife leave and her friend is still staying there with me. My wife was really sorry about this and cried and offered to leave and go stay with her dad or something like that even though he has no room. I took the damn nice guy approach and left. She said she wanted to date other people (of course the other guy) while separated. I was opposed. She said she thought that maybe if she hung out with other guys it would make her realize how much she loves me. I told her I will not be married to a woman that has a boyfriend. If that's the route you want to go divorce me first. Two days later she called me at work to tell me she wanted a divorce as she feels nothing for me anymore. I got mad and said fine, she is making a mistake, I will move on, take care of yourself. She texted me back three times after that conversation. "Maybe I need more time I don't know..is there any coming back from this?" then 2 hours later "Should we try one more time and work on our issues better?" then 2 hours later "well I guess that's it then, sorry I ruined your life. Good bye." I let her know back that I didn't want any of this. She agreed to go see a therapist on her own and wanted to put everything on pause for now and not make any irrational decisions.

Over the next couple weeks things were rough. She invited me out to dinner and movie where she was completely disconnected the entire time. No reciprocation of affection at all except a hug or two at the end of the night, no kisses, just buddies yay!

The next Friday she invited me out again and I told her no but that I hope she has a good night.

Two night later she told me that Friday I didn't come over she texted the other guy again all night out of a moment of weakness. This is after I asked her to never contact him again if she wants to work on our marriage he needs to be out of the picture. I was angry, I told her she is taking a crap on our wedding vows and that my plan was to move back in in three weeks to MY apartment and if she needs space then she can leave. She agreed and was crying the and scared.

Fast forward a couple weeks, I am still at my friends. my wife and I had a couple weeks of no contact. she came over the other night and we had a great time. We laughed like the old days, she was still disconnected but was still a good time. She really wants me to move back in after her friend moves out soon because "I want to see if it helps me make a decision one way or another, maybe having you there will remind me of why I love and married you" I told her "so I am auditioning for the husband role" she got made but then I said it back to her what she wants me to do and she understood a bit.

I was planning on doing that until yesterday. I drove over there and spoke with her for 5 minutes. I asked her "when you say that you don't know if you want to work on our marriage, are you just saying you don't know because you are scared to hurt my feelings and what you really mean is no"

She said "one minute I feel like I don't want to be in this marriage anymore and I have checked out, then the next minute I think 'no, he is my husband and I love him very much and we have been together for so long'" I told her she knows where I stand. I love her and meant every word of our wedding vows but that I am backing off now because there is nothing more I can do. I told her I am going to give her two weeks maybe three and then I am going to ask her again "do you want our marriage to work" and I will want a yes or no answer. I told her if it is still an "I don't know" then we will make plans. If she says yes, then I will move back in and we will work on everything. She agreed and almost started crying, I kissed her on the cheek and got up and walked out.

Found out later that day she called her friend (her friend is my friend as well) and was crying for about five minutes while on the phone with her. She was REALLY counting on me moving back in to see if that did anything for her. She is truly split between me and our marriage with its issues and this other guy and the possibility of a new life with more stability financially, kids etc.

I am crushed, I feel like my wife died, she became a different person over night to me.

My plan is to cut contact at this point but I am in soo much damn pain every day missing her it is near unbearable any longer.

Please help!!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry about your situation; You do need to cut contact as she is in the fog, you should be nobody's second choice. Are you sure an EA and not a PA?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

You have handled this better than most. 

Read the 180 and start using it.

She has lost respect for you and you need it back.

The only way to get it back is to cut her off emotionally and to make it apparent that you absolutely do not need her.

I know this sounds counter intuitive but it is what I believe in. 

You need to turn into John Wayne. Cool Calm Dispassionate

Don't talk to her until she is begging. If she doesn't, it was doomed to start with. 

Read other threads and you will see yours is similar to oh so many others. 

Sorry you are here and good luck.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes I am positive there has been no physical affair. She has been incredibly brutally honest and she has promised and made it very clear to me that nothing else has happened at all. She is just very infatuated with him it seems and she feels very guilty. 

I feel like I can feel my wife in there somewhere but she is just not coming around after a month. Do you think giving two weeks to ask that question is a stupid idea? Should I just cut contact completely for a long time? Not sure I can take that. We have to sign a new lease and crap coming up but I guess I can keep staying at my friends place. I know she loves me but half of her is very confused right now. I am out of cards to play on this and having issues dealing with the loss. Crying like a little boy every day about this, im angry, sad, depressed, hurt, hopeful all over the place. Never knew pain and depression could do this....never have I felt physical pain every day from depression.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

"Don't talk to her until she is begging. If she doesn't, it was doomed to start with. "

It is so hard to do this. I miss her so badly every day. I feel like my happiness depends on her loving me and that sounds pathetic and codependent.

I am trying now, but not sure if two weeks is being unreasonable to ask for an answer or maybe you are right, I should just ignore her texts and calls until she is begging and crying to have me back, if that ever happens. How long should I wait...that's the hard question.

Thanks for the replies. Some great human being on this site


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Yes I am positive there has been no physical affair. She has been incredibly brutally honest and she has promised and made it very clear to me that nothing else has happened at all. She is just very infatuated with him it seems and she feels very guilty.


Everything coming out of that woman's mouth is a lie.

The quicker you get that, the better.

DON'T DISCUSS THE RELATIONSHIP EVER AGAIN.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Yeah I'm sorry but look up trickle truth, only friend = affair 
Just kissed= full blown sex 
And on and on. Cheaters will swear on their children, god, grandma ect..

Most cheaters become masters of lying and the whole look me in the eyes thing is also mastered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Oh and when a cheater cries its not guilt it's the fact that they got caught and they are scared the fun may be over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Everything coming out of that woman's mouth is a lie.
> 
> The quicker you get that, the better.
> 
> DON'T DISCUSS THE RELATIONSHIP EVER AGAIN.



She is not lying about this being a physical affair. She has been so brutal so far I really doubt she would hold that back. She has been very adamant about this as I have asked her a few times to just tell me the truth if anything further happened. She said it was just chatting at work over instant messenger and teasing each other back and forth at work.

But maybe you are right....hurts too much to think about it..


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

she says whats really 50-50 with her is more so the issues we have which seem minor to me and that she just doesn't see me as someone she will be able to have kids with or a house someday etc. She has lost respect for me no doubt. I am so crushed.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry, I know you think you know all if it but, I will insist there is more. It's like they all go to cheaters training and ace it. Think about this, she is willing to leave you for him. The connection is very very strong. The fact that she mentioned seeing her self having kids with him should clue you in as well. She has not lost respect for you yet unless you bend to her demand an wait for her to decided. The loss respect is cheated scrip for her comparing him to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79, 

My mentor gave me this a few months back...

I want you to read it. 

Your wife has lost all attraction towards you.

Understanding the dynamics of a relationship is key ... read it: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> she says whats really 50-50 with her is more so the issues we have which seem minor to me and that she just doesn't see me as someone she will be able to have kids with or a house someday etc. She has lost respect for me no doubt. I am so crushed.


That's why you cut all contact.

You need to APPEAR as a strong confident man without her.

Neediness from you will push her away.

Read self-help books, hit the gym and lose the weight, Focus on yourself is key here. It sounds as you may have lost yourself a little bit.

DO NOT TALK RELATIONSHIP! 

Ask us when it is ok, got it!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm sorry if I'm hurting you with this, I just want you to see clearly and not make the same mistakes lots of people make. I will leave you with two thoughts :
To save a marriage you must be wiling to lose it 
You deserve more than this. You wife is in a fog and you probably don't recognize her anymore. To snap her out of it you need to expose the affair, go dark, take care of yourself as in eating sleeping and exercising. If you need to seek medical or mental health that's ok. Your doctor can even help you request FMlA which is protected leave from work and if they offer short term disability pay I would suggest you take it.

Make you your only priority.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

You are going to get peppered with a lot of advice very quickly so listen to all of it and carefully choose the direction you feel will best serve you.

My wife and I are 6 years post discovery of her EA. We successfully managed the recovery and are very happy now, being married for 25+ years. 

The Short list

You have a retreating spouse that is showing signs of being in flux. She does not know what she wants to do. Read Dobson's Love Must be Tough to learn how to deal with her. In short, be cool, confident and unemotional. Let her know that you are ready to commit to R but if she's not into it, you'll be fine and will be ready fo move on. (Even if you are not)

Give her a date and time as to when you will be at the door with your stuff to be in your house. The friend staying there should understand that your marriage is more important and should find other arrangements. If you wife elects to leave, fine!

If this is an EA only, your wife is not in love with him. She is living a fantasy and is infatuated only.

Recognize her "I never loved you..." is bull. She is rewriting history to justify her actions. She's in the fog and operating in an emotional state that you cannot understand at this point and neither can she.

All contact with TOM must end. She needs to understand this is non-negotiable. You won't get anywhere with him in the picture.

Work on your issues, not for her but for yourself. Start with your weight. My guess is you've already lost some but not in the right manner. Work out away from home and get on a decent diet. If you have other legitimate issues damaging to the marriage work on those also. Don't tell her or discuss these with her, just do it. Your words mean little to her. Action speaks.

People are going to bring up VARs and keyloggers. Get to know the legality of these devices in your state. Use of them could get you arrested and her the upper hand.

Continue counselling. 

Sit down, strap in and hang on to your ass. This is going to get worse before it ever gets any better. Our recovery took three and a half years and the first year was the most emotionally devastating of my life.

Finally: As a newly betrayed you are in the self loathing, lost, grabbing for any signs of hope and about as broken as you could have ever imagined. Remember this. You have a lot more control over this than you think you have. You've just go to understand the sage advice of our members, apply it where it fits and follow through. Good luck.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

So at this point should I get together with her and really ask her to tell me the truth about this other guy? I would really love to know that truth because then I would be completely done with her. But she has always been the most honest person I have ever known.

God I feel like texting her right now and asking her to meet up after she gets off work tonight to bring this other guy up and ask for the truth!!!!

But maybe that's not a good play right now. However now you have me scared that there was something more. She even told the marriage counselor that there was nothing physical at all. The therapist said "I really need you to tell the truth about this other guy, what else happened?" and she said absolutely nothing outside of work and no physical contact. 

Now I don't know what I should do. I want to talk to her now more than ever and ask about this guy more


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> So at this point should I get together with her and really ask her to tell me the truth about this other guy? I would really love to know that truth because then I would be completely done with her. But she has always been the most honest person I have ever known.
> 
> God I feel like texting her right now and asking her to meet up after she gets off work tonight to bring this other guy up and ask for the truth!!!!
> 
> ...


Let me put it to you this way - The more you contact her, ie... phone calls, hangouts, text and emails - the more you'll drive her away faster. 

*YOU WILL NOT NICE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS*


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Awesome advice Ampelxor, 

OP, the only one who gets to decided what to do is you, she cheated once she is out of the fog she will be begging you. At the same time you will be debating if her cheating butt is worth it. You and only you have the control don't give it away. You were wronged if that happens in a business, a customer does not tell them to decide of they want to fix it or not. They demand their money back (no more chances) or they demand the problem gets fixed to their satisfaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

"You have a retreating spouse that is showing signs of being in flux. She does not know what she wants to do. Read Dobson's Love Must be Tough to learn how to deal with her. In short, be cool, confident and unemotional. Let her know that you are ready to commit to R but if she's not into it, you'll be fine and will be ready fo move on. (Even if you are not)

Give her a date and time as to when you will be at the door with your stuff to be in your house. The friend staying there should understand that your marriage is more important and should find other arrangements.

If this is an EA only, your wife is not in love with him. She is living a fantasy and is infatuated only.

Recognize her "I never loved you..." is bull. She is rewriting history to justify her actions. She's in the fog and operating in an emotional state that you cannot understand at this point and neither can she.

All contact with TOM must end. She needs to understand this is non-negotiable. You won't get anywhere with him in the picture.

Work on your issues, not for her but for yourself. Start with your weight. My guess is you've already lost some but not in the right manner. Work out away from home and get on a decent diet. If you have other legitimate issues damaging to the marriage work on those also. Don't tell her or discuss these with her, just do it. Your words mean little to her. Action speaks."

Thank you for the post. She has since cut all contact with the other guy, She changed shifts at work as well so she never sees him now. She has said that she doesn't love him and realizes she is infatuated with him and that it is "crazy."

The part I am needing help sorting out is....do I move in knowing she is still not sure about working on the marriage (she wants me to, to see if it sparks anything for her to make a decision one way or another to speed things up) or do I do what I said and ask her in two weeks "do you want to work on our marriage" and if she says "I don't know" then its a pretty good sign its over? or maybe she needs more time?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> so at this point should i get together with her and really ask her to tell me the truth about this other guy? I would really love to know that truth because then i would be completely done with her. But she has always been the most honest person i have ever known.
> 
> God i feel like texting her right now and asking her to meet up after she gets off work tonight to bring this other guy up and ask for the truth!!!!
> 
> ...


you will not get the truth from her so don't bother


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

sadman79 said:


> The part I am needing help sorting out is....do I move in knowing she is still not sure about working on the marriage (she wants me to, to see if it sparks anything for her to make a decision one way or another to speed things up) or do I do what I said and ask her in two weeks "do you want to work on our marriage" and if she says "I don't know" then its a pretty good sign its over? or maybe she needs more time?


It's not about her having space. It's about you taking control of the situation. She's the one in flux, not you. If she really wants space she can go find it. This needs to be stated cooly and confidently. No anger no emotion. You can both actively be living under the same roof and still practice LMBT.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> It's not about her having space. It's about you taking control of the situation. She's the one in flux, not you. If she really wants space she can go find it. This needs to be stated cooly and confidently. No anger no emotion. You can both actively be living under the same roof and still practice LMBT.



Im sorry but what does LMBT stand for?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Also the thing I hate about moving back in is that she is not ready to reciprocate my emotions but maybe that is what you are saying Amp...move back in but stay cool and emotionless with her. Is that so? My trouble is really trying to understand how to act around her once I move back in.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Treat her as someone who has betrayed you, she has. It's hard to separate from treating her like a spouse, but you need to think and act very cold. Otherwise this will be the first of many affairs. Don't beat yourself up if you slip, just focus on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

you are right, I need to take control. I need to move back into my apartment NOW. She is going to be confused if I call her today and tell her I am moving back in, in two weeks after I told her yesterday a different plan. But oh well....I guess I need to start worrying about myself.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

sadman79 said:


> Also the thing I hate about moving back in is that she is not ready to reciprocate my emotions but maybe that is what you are saying Amp...move back in but stay cool and emotionless with her. Is that so? My trouble is really trying to understand how to act around her once I move back in.


LMBT = Love Must be Tough

Do not expect her to reciprocate your emotions. Do not initiate any intimacy. 1. She won't accept it. 2. You don't need to deal with the rejection. 3. It shows your power position of I'm ready to deal with these issues but you've got to get skin in the game too.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Treat her as someone who has betrayed you, she has. It's hard to separate from treating her like a spouse, but you need to think and act very cold. Otherwise this will be the first of many affairs. Don't beat yourself up if you slip, just focus on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the reply. So you are saying just be very cold and do not initiate any contact or conversations? Make myself scarce and out all the time and not outwardly mean towards her.

Basically I need to act like I am living with a woman who betrayed me...boy that hits me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> LMBT = Love Must be Tough
> 
> Do not expect her to reciprocate your emotions. Do not initiate any intimacy. 1. She won't accept it. 2. You don't need to deal with the rejection. 3. It shows your power position of I'm ready to deal with these issues but you've got to get skin in the game too.



What do you mean by "you've got to get skin in the game too."


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks again for all the replies. I really appreciate the help on this. I really feel like a pile of pathetic right now. I guess I will call her tonight and tell her I am moving back in, in two weeks and I want her friend to make other arrangements to leave by then. She is going to be very confused lol considering I told her yesterday that I was not going to move in until she wants to work on the marriage but oh well.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

sadman79 said:


> What do you mean by "you've got to get skin in the game too."


She's got to get skin in the game. She can't sit on the fence. She needs to commit to counselling, commit to an honest effort in recovery of the marriage. If she wants your love, emotional support, intimacy.... she needs to get involved. Until you see signs from her of this you are calm, cool and confident.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> So at this point should I get together with her and really ask her to tell me the truth about this other guy? I would really love to know that truth because then I would be completely done with her. But she has always been the most honest person I have ever known.
> 
> God I feel like texting her right now and asking her to meet up after she gets off work tonight to bring this other guy up and ask for the truth!!!!
> 
> ...


Sorry, but its pretty much a given that she is lying. You guys went a couple of weeks without contact, its a safe bet that she hooked up with this guy during that time. Do you have access to her cell phone records? What about her email? Get in to spy mode and flush her out. 

Its time you made the decision for her, what freaking nerve she has to sit there and tell you she "needs to decide", wtf is that, eeny meeny miney mo??? Its either YOU...NOW...or tell her its over.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks again for all the replies. I really appreciate the help on this. I really feel like a pile of pathetic right now. I guess I will call her tonight and tell her I am moving back in, in two weeks and I want her friend to make other arrangements to leave by then. She is going to be very confused lol considering I told her yesterday that I was not going to move in until she wants to work on the marriage but oh well.


Are you asking permission to move back into your own home?

If you are going to do it, just do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Are you asking permission to move back into your own home?
> 
> If you are going to do it, just do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I would like her friend that is staying there to get out first. I don't like her and she is pretty anti me and anti our marriage. She tries to talk my wife into this other guy I have heard through my wifes friend that is also my friend. That's why I was thinking of giving her a two week notice.

Are you saying I should move in without even calling my wife to let her know and then tell her friend she needs to leave immediately or get a hotel or something like that?

I can do that it just seems to me like kicking her friend out on the street might make my wife distance herself from me even more.

Then again maybe I am being a wuss.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Besides, I may tell her friend to find somewhere to go and my wife may get mad and say she can stay for another couple weeks. So yeah might create some anger there.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

You are in a state of shock and have been emasculated.

I have been there.

You need to take charge. It's your home and not that of her friends.

You have lost respect in the eyes of your wife- you need to start gaining it back.

Who cares whether she gets mad.

Remember: It's Your House.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Its just funny, the other night when she stopped by to talk. She said it would be good if I moved back in and we had some time together to do stuff now that she works a normal shift. But what I am getting from you all is that I move in and do not hang out with her or only if she initiates it. Correct? Thanks for the help.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> You are in a state of shock and have been emasculated.
> 
> I have been there.
> 
> ...




Thanks Regroup. Yeah I am in shock. I am so scared that if I make her angry she will just leave me completely. Im a mess.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Its just funny, the other night when she stopped by to talk. She said it would be good if I moved back in and we had some time together to do stuff now that she works a normal shift. But what I am getting from you all is that I move in and do not hang out with her or only if she initiates it. Correct? Thanks for the help.


Correct


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Regroup. Yeah I am in shock. I am so scared that if I make her angry she will just leave me completely. Im a mess.


Well she just about already has.

You have no control over what she does. Accept it and let go.

Let her and do not chase beg or plead.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Let her and do not chase beg or plead.


This is so key.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Correct


Thanks Gut,

That's my plan then. I am going to do it tonight which will confuse her. I will talk to her friend and tell her she needs to make plans to stay at a hotel or motel or something very soon if not tonight because our marriage is important to me and we need to have our home to ourselves. I'm hoping she will understand.

I will then just live there. I will pay no attention to my wife. I will just leave without telling her where I am going etc. Not talk to her unless she initiates conversation. Not initiate any plans of any kind unless she initiates it. Not initiate physical contact, basically ignore that she is there and act happy until she comes around if ever.

Thanks!


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Gut,
> 
> That's my plan then. I am going to do it tonight which will confuse her. I will talk to her friend and tell her she needs to make plans to stay at a hotel or motel or something very soon if not tonight because our marriage is important to me and we need to have our home to ourselves. I'm hoping she will understand.
> 
> ...


You will not explain anything to her friend. She goes and that's that. Remember, she is an enemy of your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> You will not explain anything to her friend. She goes and that's that. Remember, she is an enemy of your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that is very true. Its just hard for me to say "can you pack your stuff and leave our apartment tonight" when its going to be around 8pm and she will have nowhere to go besides maybe a hotel or motel. Plus this may anger the crap out of my wife. My wife has been telling me I can move back in whenever I want but I don't think she is counting on me kicking her friend out immediately. My wife may resent me for doing that.

Maybe I need her to get a little mad at me for once lol.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

My friend is talking with her tonight and they (the friends I am living with, one of them is my wife's friend as well) would like me to wait until they talk to her to see if she is coming around at all. If not then I am moving back in the next day.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Is this friend toxic to your marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Is this friend toxic to your marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The friends I am staying with are pro-marriage in this case. The friend staying with my wife is toxic. She wants my wife to be with the other guy. My wife has even told me this and my wifes friend has told me when all three of them have been out together that my wife defends me against this chick telling her she doesn't know me. This friend of hers I agreed to let stay with us doesn't know me at all whatsoever, just my wife knows her.

My friend is going to talk to my wife tonight as she texted him and asked to talk to him about this situation (they talked once last week as well) then my friend will come home and let me know if I should go ahead with the moving back into my home plan or if my wife is completely a lost cause which at that point I may just call it quits, get off the lease, the phones, and sign up for a one bedroom lol.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I guess one thing that confuses me is that a lot of the advice I am getting to move back in is opposite of the 180 rules which is basically no contact.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

OK move back in and don't say a word.

Tell friend she needs to find somewhere else to stay.

Then walkaway and do your own thing.

Be aloof and content. Fake it if you have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

A couple days ago I was thinking of giving her a more space. Her friend is moving out soon (couple weeks to 3 weeks) and I thought it would be good for her to live completely alone in our place for a bit. Maybe she will start to miss me when she is completely alone in the apartment for a bit maybe not.

thought I would run it by you all. I think I have just messed this up too much already. I have cried in front of her too many times now. She told me I can come home whenever and I told her I don't want to come home just to audition for husband role. She didn't like that but she understood that's basically what she is asking. I told her I will come home when she wants to work on the marriage.

Even if I move in and play the cold and cool card, I am basically doing the same thing. I am trying to manipulate the situation by acting differently (180) towards her in hopes that she will come around. Is that much different from staying separated and giving her space in hopes she comes around?

I'm so confused on what to do. I keep looking inside myself on what I, myself, right now want to do. But I know that you should not make decisions sometimes when your emotions are high. Which mine are right now. I do want to move back in however. I need to start taking charge. Its just going to be very hard to act like I don't care about her when I do move in.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She is not lying about this being a physical affair. She has been so brutal so far I really doubt she would hold that back.


Sure she'd hold that back!

Look up "trickle truth" either here on this forum or do a Google search. It makes perfect sense that she won't tell you everything despite how "brutally forthcoming" she may appear.

She's been in the guys house giving him DVDs, right? She has a crush on him, right? She wants to have babies with him, right? She's ready to leave the marriage for this guy, right? Continue this line of reasoning up to it's inevitable conclusion.

Also it's been more than a few weeks.

A LOT more.

So if she told you otherwise, guess what? She's lying. No surprise there.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Talk less and do more.

The 180 isn't to win her back.

The 180 is to help you detach in a way similar to
the way tour wife has detached.

She clearly does not respect you.

The I can see having kids with om but 
Not with you made me shiver.

You need to take control of this situation. 

Get back in the house if you want to
save the marriage. 

Read the book Ample or suggested.

These two also
Married Man's Sex Life Primer.

No More Mr. Nice Guy 

All 3 books should be read before any talks with the wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Sure she'd hold that back!
> 
> Look up "trickle truth" either here on this forum or do a Google search. It makes perfect sense that she won't tell you everything despite how "brutally forthcoming" she may appear.
> 
> ...



No she has not been in the guys house. She just gave him a couple DVDs at work. She swears nothing physically has happened at all with this guy. But I definitely wonder....guess its pointless wondering though since I can never find out. She told me the other night she has had no contact whatsoever with him for 2 and a half weeks now since the last time they texted each other.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> My friend is going to talk to my wife tonight as she texted him and asked to talk to him about this situation (they talked once last week as well) then my friend will come home and let me know if I should go ahead with the moving back into my home plan or if my wife is completely a lost cause which at that point I may just call it quits, get off the lease, the phones, and sign up for a one bedroom lol.





sadman79 said:


> A couple days ago I was thinking of giving her a more space. Her friend is moving out soon (couple weeks to 3 weeks) and I thought it would be good for her to live completely alone in our place for a bit. Maybe she will start to miss me when she is completely alone in the apartment for a bit maybe not.
> 
> thought I would run it by you all. I think I have just messed this up too much already. I have cried in front of her too many times now. She told me I can come home whenever and I told her I don't want to come home just to audition for husband role. She didn't like that but she understood that's basically what she is asking. I told her I will come home when she wants to work on the marriage.
> 
> ...


WHY are you allowing the cheater to call the shots here?? :scratchhead: She wants you to audition for your OWN ROLE as HUSBAND? FVCK THAT! Get back in your house and kick her ass out. She can "make her choice" while she tries to figure out where the hell she is going to sleep every night! (probably with the OM) Right now she has you dangling from a string on her little finger, and you are dancing like her puppet! She is in the wrong here, so why should she get to stay in her comfy home, where nothing has really changed? STOP DANCING!!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

UPDATE: The girl that is living in our place is moving out very soon (week or two). She signed paperwork the other day for her own place. So I am not going to move in until she is out. I don't want to be around her so I will wait a little longer.

My wife keeps speaking in absolutes to her friend, things like "I have never had butterflies for him". Its hard to hear. When the day before she was saying stuff like "I miss him and love him ..." could she be coming out of the fog slowly? Wish it didn't take so long.

I feel such great pain every day. I woke up crying today....never had that happen in my life. Was probably dreaming about the situation or something, but I could not stop crying until after I showered and got dressed then I was able to pull myself together a bit. I keep praying to god to bring my wife back and make her snap out of this.

If anyone that has been through their husband or wife walking out on them in this way could give me some tips on how to help with the intense pain of missing them every day I would really appreciate it.

She said she is not sure she wants to work on the marriage yet she wants me to move in once this other girl is gone so we have the place to ourselves and can spend more time with just each other. That kinda sounds like she wants to work on things but she just cant say it. She also mentioned to my friend that she might swap with me right away, I would move back in and she would go stay on the futon with our friends just to see what I went through and get a different perspective but she wasn't sure.

I just really need help with the depression of missing her every day. I have not talked to her now for 4 days, no texts, phone calls, nothing. Every day that goes by makes me more depressed. In my mind its like "there is another day that my wife didn't wake the hell up."

Thank you all for your help, I really do appreciate it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am sorry you are having such a hard time. You are giving all your energy to someone who "isnt sure" she wants to be with you or not. Why is that? Why are you allowing her this control? You are sitting there like a dog, begging, waiting for her to pet you. Do you not think that you deserve better than this? She is doing this because you are allowing it. Its a GOOD thing that you havent talked to her, you can use that to work on moving yourself forward without leaning on her. You need to work the 180 and get yourself some strength and some self respect, so that you can move on with or without her. Give her an ultimatum, its either she stops all contact with the OM and works on your marriage, or you are filing for divorce. She needs consequences, or she is going to continue to sit there with you dangling from her finger while she eats cake.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I am sorry you are having such a hard time. You are giving all your energy to someone who "isnt sure" she wants to be with you or not. Why is that? Why are you allowing her this control? You are sitting there like a dog, begging, waiting for her to pet you. Do you not think that you deserve better than this? She is doing this because you are allowing it. Its a GOOD thing that you havent talked to her, you can use that to work on moving yourself forward without leaning on her. You need to work the 180 and get yourself some strength and some self respect, so that you can move on with or without her. Give her an ultimatum, its either she stops all contact with the OM and works on your marriage, or you are filing for divorce. She needs consequences, or she is going to continue to sit there with you dangling from her finger while she eats cake.


Why am I allowing her this control? I guess the most obvious is because I am in love with her. She is my best friend. It is soo damn hard to be with someone for 12 years and then poof...

She has not spoken with the other guy for 3 and half weeks now (when she cut it off with him finally). She works a different shift now at work so she doesn't see him (learned this through her friend I am living with).

You are right, I need to move forward but holy crap I just keep missing her every day. I try to get out and go do things with friends but it is VERY hard to take my mind off this. I guess there is no short cut through this situation.

My plan is to leave her alone completely 100% until I move back in. Then I will act and not speak. I will keep working out, trying to better myself etc. I will be nice but not needy and hopefully she will see all these changes in me and will come around. If not then I guess I made myself a better person for the wonderful woman that comes along that wont do this to me.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She has not spoken with the other guy for 3 and half weeks now (when she cut it off with him finally). She works a different shift now at work so she doesn't see him (learned this through her friend I am living with).


How do you know she hasn't spoken to him in 3 1/2 weeks?

Because she told you this and/or her friend told you this?

That doesn't mean it's true.



sadman79 said:


> My plan is to leave her alone completely 100% until I move back in. Then I will act and not speak. I will keep working out, trying to better myself etc. I will be nice but not needy and *hopefully she will see all these changes in me and will come around.* If not then I guess I made myself a better person for the wonderful woman that comes along that wont do this to me.


I was with you right up until I hit the part I bolded. That's a common mistake. You're going to act a certain way and basically manipulate her into thinking you are this new and changed person and hopefully she will become more attracted to this new and changed person and realize she made a big mistake by leaving you and she will come back to you and all will be well.

Work on making positive changes in yourself and your life, over time, and months and years down the line you will be smarter, more experienced, and more in touch with yourself and be able to have more healthy relationships.

But don't act a certain way to get a certain response from another person- that will never work.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> How do you know she hasn't spoken to him in 3 1/2 weeks?
> 
> Because she told you this and/or her friend told you this?
> 
> ...


You are right but I am also doing it for myself as well. My wife is so 50/50 right now. I just wish there was some secret to get rid of the missing her feelings haha, I know that sounds ridiculous but it would help. 

Yeah I heard it from her best friend. she has not talked or seen the guy in 3 and a half weeks at all. My wife is taking this very seriously now. On Sunday I stopped by our apartment to pick up something and was able to talk to her for a minute. I told her "im going to give you two weeks and then I am going to ask you if you want to work on this marriage and I want a yes or no answer" and then I said "If you have to stay home on the weekends instead of going out with your girlfriends drinking and wallow in your self hatred and loathing then maybe that's what you need to do but I need to man-up and put a time frame on this for my own well being at this point"

Later that day she texted me telling me I was completely right that she has been trying to drown her sorrows and going out with her girlfriends was just a way to distract herself from thinking about this situation. She apologized for beating around the bush and being so disrespectful about the whole situation. I told her I was glad she realized this stuff. We have not spoken since.

My plan is to check in with her in another week (that will be two) and see where she is at. If I don't go crazy by then hah.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I told her "im going to give you two weeks and then I am going to ask you if you want to work on this marriage and I want a yes or no answer"


Ultimatums don't work. Give yourself an internal time frame and if she doesn't show definite signs of trying to work things out, then walk away. 



sadman79 said:


> I need to man-up and put a time frame on this for my own well being at this point"


You want to win her back by being tough and strong? I get it, and like I said that doesn't usually work because it's an act but if you're going to go that route, telling her you need to man-up and do whatever for your own well being is weak and unattractive.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Ultimatums don't work. Give yourself an internal time frame and if she doesn't show definite signs of trying to work things out, then walk away.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to win her back by being tough and strong? I get it, and like I said that doesn't usually work because it's an act but if you're going to go that route, telling her you need to man-up and do whatever for your own well being is weak and unattractive.



Yeah I have since realized ultimatums don't work and are not useful at all. My plan now is to work on myself, not talk to my wife about our relationship at all unless she initiates it, move back in to my home and continue to work on myself, she can stay if she wants, if not whatever. The problem I have is figuring out my internal time clock on when I just say "well its done" and just leave without notice to her. I cant afford the place we have on my own so I would basically be forced to move out but whatever.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> I am sorry you are having such a hard time. You are giving all your energy to someone who "isnt sure" she wants to be with you or not. Why is that? Why are you allowing her this control? You are sitting there like a dog, begging, waiting for her to pet you. Do you not think that you deserve better than this? She is doing this because you are allowing it. Its a GOOD thing that you havent talked to her, you can use that to work on moving yourself forward without leaning on her. You need to work the 180 and get yourself some strength and some self respect, so that you can move on with or without her. Give her an ultimatum, its either she stops all contact with the OM and works on your marriage, or you are filing for divorce. She needs consequences, or she is going to continue to sit there with you dangling from her finger while she eats cake.


:iagree: Sadman, I know the pain is incredible, but somehow, you have to leave the 'sadman' stuff behind you. Women aren't attracted to weak, sulking, sad men. 

You have to take steps towards self-respect and strength. Maybe work up some anger over what your wife has done to you. Instead of crying in front of her when you first encountered her actions, a better plan would've been to file for divorce immediately. That's a strong decisive move, and it might have shaken your wife from her affair fog. It certainly would've made you more attractive to her.

A strong, confident man would never tolerate his wife considering him as another option. I know, easier said than done, when you're devastated and dying inside. But I hope you get the idea that your mindset should be "I'm nobody's Plan B." That's confidence, and women find it attractive.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Cubby said:


> :iagree: Sadman, I know the pain is incredible, but somehow, you have to leave the 'sadman' stuff behind you. Women aren't attracted to weak, sulking, sad men.
> 
> You have to take steps towards self-respect and strength. Maybe work up some anger over what your wife has done to you. Instead of crying in front of her when you first encountered her actions, a better plan would've been to file for divorce immediately. That's a strong decisive move, and it might have shaken your wife from her affair fog. It certainly would've made you more attractive to her.
> 
> A strong, confident man would never tolerate his wife considering him as another option. I know, easier said than done, when you're devastated and dying inside. But I hope you get the idea that your mindset should be "I'm nobody's Plan B." That's confidence, and women find it attractive.


Yeah I wish I would have done things differently but its a bit too late now to go back. I could file for divorce now I guess, it could also go the other way by doing that. Given more time she could come out of the fog. Divorcing her right now could make her say "ok fine I guess, I'm too confused to figure this out right now anyways" since she is emotionally screwed up right now. I am just not sure that is a rational decision or an emotional one.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman

I rarely give this advice.

Bend over, make a fist and punch yourself right in your balls.

Feel the pain. ARe your eyes watering yet?

Good.

God gave men balls for a reason.

To use them!

I understand your hurt. I understand your confusion.

But what you need to realize is that your wifes feelings/emotions/cheating have so little to do with you.

You need to step up and take control of you! Not her. You!

You do not call her in advance, you move back home now.

You throw the toxic GF right out of the apt. She is hurting your marriage.

And if your wife gets angry and threatens to leave you then just show her the door.

Tell her not to come back until she is ready to tell you the truth and work on the marriage.

Or to tell you where to send her the D papers.

You deserve better Sadman. So stop pleading, begging, crying and get tough.

Take back what is yours or at least try.

No matter what happens leave no regrets behind you. That is what defines us as men.

HM64


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Sadman
> 
> I rarely give this advice.
> 
> ...



Thank you Happy. I don't know why I am so scared to move back in immediately (non-confrontational I guess, so is my wife). The girl that is staying there signed papers for her new place and she will be out soon after background check crap and whatever. Its just going to be a fkin mess if I charge in there and tell her to start packing all her stuff...she wont be there anyways, she works overnights right now. My wife will get pissed off at me for kicking her friend out with no place to go I'm sure even though my wife wants her to leave as well.

Also like I said, I cannot afford this place on my own, so I would have to move out eventually anyways if my wife decides not to stay. Wouldn't this all be easier if I just told her:

"I am getting off the lease and moving into my own place and moving on with my life, take care. Oh and by the way here are the divorce papers." 

instead of moving in, having her leave, then I have to leave anyways.

My wife wants this friend of hers to leave very badly as well from what she has told her friend I am living with. There are just some little complications here and there that will suck if I kick her friend out right now.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

just got word about 15 minutes ago that my father had a massive heart attack and is being flown to the Mayo clinic or whatever in Minnesota.

wow....my life is just done, feel like I am losing everyone I love.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> just got word about 15 minutes ago that my father had a massive heart attack and is being flown to the Mayo clinic or whatever in Minnesota.
> 
> wow....my life is just done, feel like I am losing everyone I love.


sadman...I'm so sorry...I don't know what to tell you other than you don't deserve this crap. But your life is not done....hang in there.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Sadman
> 
> Bend over, make a fist and punch yourself right in your balls.


Might want to save this bit of advice for another time.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sadman, I hope your dad is ok.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Update:

My wife came by suddenly last night. She heard about my dad from her friend. I was not expecting her to come so it was a surprise.

She motioned for me to go with her into my room. We went in there and she started crying and hugged me saying she was so sorry to hear about my dad. She kept hugging me and I just sat there, didn't even know what to feel at this point. Is she hugging me as my wife or as a friend type of thoughts rushed through my head.

She told me she has been having huge ups and downs lately. She said the other night she was convinced it was over and just trying to figure out how to break it to me. Then the very next morning (yesterday) even before she knew about my dad, she could not get me out of her head, she said it was the first day since we separated that she really missed me and that she really wanted to see me right then and there and hug me.

So she is going up and down a lot. I told her I am moving back in soon and at this point there is nothing I can do for her. If she wants to stay and work on things, great. I am just going to work on myself now.

We then took a short drive to the place we first met. We sat there and stared at the place we first said hello to each other. My wife said it seems like such a long time ago. I told her it was a long time ago. Then I noticed she wasn't wearing her wedding band but was wearing the ring (which confuses me) she said she doesn't feel right wearing it because she doesn't feel like she deserves it and it feels weird. She asked me why I am still wearing mine. I asked her why I would ever take it off. Then she said "because everything I have done to you". I told her I love her and that I am willing to work on things and put everything behind us. She shook her head yes.

So the night went ok. I was pretty stressed out the entire time thinking about my dad. He is now stable today but in a coma 

My wife told me "even though we are going through hard times right now, I still care about you deeply and if you ever need me during this hard time, I will be here immediately."

I told her I didn't need a friend, I needed my wife. Then she asked me if she shouldn't come over anymore like this. I told her I really appreciate it but I need my wife to reciprocate emotions. I told her if she is ever actually missing me as a husband then by all means feel free to come by or call.

I tried to act as "do whatever you want, im going to work on myself" as I could given how difficult of a day it was for me. I was VERY venerable with her there. It was even worse at the hospital, I basically crashed 100%. Everything came flowing in and she wasn't there for me anymore. It made the entire situation terrible. They took my dad away to fly him to the Mayo clinic and I sat in a room and fell apart completely for 2 hours.

Is it a good sign that yesterday was the first day she "couldn't get me out of her head" and "missed me very badly"? Could she be coming out of the fog?

My plan at this point is to still cut contact with her unless she initiates it. Maybe not being available will make her miss me more and more and maybe not being around her will help me get over her, even though I miss her ALOT right now given what has happened.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She asked me why I am still wearing mine. I asked her why I would ever take it off. Then she said "because everything I have done to you". I told her I love her and that I am willing to work on things and put everything behind us.
> 
> I told her I didn't need a friend, I needed my wife. Then she asked me if she shouldn't come over anymore like this. I told her I really appreciate it but I need my wife to reciprocate emotions. I told her if she is ever actually missing me as a husband then by all means feel free to come by or call.


I was with you and cheering you on right until you started saying things like "why would I take off my ring" and "I need a wife" and "I love you and I want to work on things and put this all behind us. This is incredibly prosterously WEAK. 

She needs to see that you are strong and moving on without her and you don't need her in your life! Only then "maybe" will she realize she's losing the best thing she ever had and she might start nosing around again at which point "maybe" you will reconsider taking her back "if" she bends over backwards to do everything necessary to win you back to her.

Not "I love you and I want to work on things!"

I get it, you're having a tough time and I'm sorry. But stop being your own worst enemy.

Just imagine how she might have responded if you were distant and aloof and didn't say all those things to her. She'd be thinking "wow, he must really be hurt and he's maybe going to leave me for good! I better get my act together fast" compared to "he's still pining away for me despite everything I did, I can think about maybe going back to him, maybe not, it's totally up to me because he's a doormat and he'll do whatever I want".

BIG difference.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

Sadman, so sorry to hear about everything going on in your life right now,
Keep coming to TAM, we are all pulling you.

Hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I was with you and cheering you on right until you started saying things like "why would I take off my ring" and "I need a wife" and I love you and I want to work on things and put this all behind you" this is incredibly prosterously WEAK.
> 
> She needs to see that you are strong and moving on without her and you don't need her in your life! Only then "maybe" will she realize she's losing the best thing she ever had and she might start nosing around again at which point "maybe" you will reconsider taking her back "if" she bends over backwards to do everything necessary to win you back to her.
> 
> ...


So what should I do now then?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> So what should I do now then?


The 180. 

You can read about it all over this forum. 

Basically it means moving on, working on yourself, getting out there and having some fun with your life or at least pretending to do so until it actually happens. Live your life as if she doesn't exist and plan to move on without her, never expecting her to return. 

If and when she shows signs of maybe coming around, play it cool, don't make it easy for her, she's got to win you back.

Don't even go there and say "but if she thinks I'm moving on she'll give up!" because it doesn't happen that way. If she really wants back in she'll put in the effort, you want her to put in the effort because otherwise, if you just throw your hands in the air and say "ok come back" it won't last because she'll see you as a proverbial doormat. 

So read about the 180 but again it means pulling back, do not contact her AT ALL and don't ask her questions or tell her you love her and that you want to work things out. 

That can happen later. MUCH later.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

sadman, it's hard to give you a full education about what women are attracted to, but here's a few things: Don't put her on a pedestal. Act like you have options in life, including women. Have hobbies, interests, etc. Do stuff. Act confident. Those are things women are drawn to.

What they don't like: crying, weakness, neediness, lots of analytical talk about the relationship.

It's just the way it is. It's all evolutionary hard-wiredness stuff.

Of course you're devastated, but you have to stop being your own worst enemy. Yeah, she might never come back, but the chances are better if you appear to be moving on. It's counter-intuitive, but it's true.

(Someone needs to post that great advice from, I think his name is "marduk." Maybe I'll look for that.)


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

So quick update. My dad took a turn for the worse. They had to resuscitate him once this morning and he is in a full blown coma now. My wife once again found out through the friends I am staying with and called me.

I was pretty sad about my dad so I didn't say much, I feel like giving up on my wife right about now. She asked me "do you want me to leave you alone right now?" I said "what do you mean" and she said "do you want me to leave you alone for the time being" I was just silent and fed up. I was just spent emotionally and said "do whatever you want, I gotta go, bye" She sounded really sad and said ok then I hung up.

180 time for me. My dad is about to die most likely and this is a wakeup call. We all die someday. I'm done wasting my fkin time with this woman as of right now. She is going to have to earn me back. I am going to drive down to the clinic to hopefully see some family and my dad over the next day or two. I cant believe I have let myself feel soo terrible through all this because of **** she did. I am done.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Your attitude is right where it needs to be now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chazmataz3 (May 29, 2013)

my thoughts and prayers are also with you.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks all.

One thing I still need help with ideas on how to handle. Sorry cannot think straight right now:

1.) She is going to contact me soon about rent for this next month (the 1st it is due). She is going to ask if I am still going to move in and if so am I paying rent. Not sure in my mind how to handle that situation now at all. Should I keep staying at my friends and tell her I am not moving in. Or should I still move in. 180 will be much harder staying there. I guess ultimately its what I want to do. Right now I am pissed and don't want to move back in at all until she is begging me to come back.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> One thing I still need help with ideas on how to handle. Sorry cannot think straight right now:
> 
> 1.) She is going to contact me soon about rent for this next month (the 1st it is due). She is going to ask if I am still going to move in and if so am I paying rent. Not sure in my mind how to handle that situation now at all. Should I keep staying at my friends and tell her I am not moving in. Or should I still move in. 180 will be much harder staying there. I guess ultimately its what I want to do. Right now I am pissed and don't want to move back in at all until she is begging me to come back.


My suggestion would be to stay where you are. I think especially right now that it would help your mental health to be away from her and the environment around her.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> One thing I still need help with ideas on how to handle. Sorry cannot think straight right now:
> 
> 1.) She is going to contact me soon about rent for this next month (the 1st it is due). She is going to ask if I am still going to move in and if so am I paying rent. Not sure in my mind how to handle that situation now at all. Should I keep staying at my friends and tell her I am not moving in. Or should I still move in. 180 will be much harder staying there. I guess ultimately its what I want to do. Right now I am pissed and don't want to move back in at all until she is begging me to come back.


I second the suggestion to stay put, dude. So sorry for what you're dealing with. I know how tough it is to lose a father. 

From what I've read, your wife really doesn't deserve you. I think if you stay strong, and do the 180, you may find in a couple weeks or a couple months that you don't actually want to be with this woman. Honestly, you can be so much happier.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks 3xnocharm and BK23.

That's my plan then. Feels more comfortable at this point. I don't feel like dealing with her or our "marriage" right now anyways.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman

Sorry about your dad and as far as your wife goes, right at this moment you want nothing to do with her but you are far from done with her. So, since you are still looking for advice I will offer the following.



sadman79 said:


> She asked me "do you want me to leave you alone right now?" I said "what do you mean" and she said "do you want me to leave you alone for the time being" I was just silent and fed up. I was just spent emotionally and said "do whatever you want, I gotta go, bye"


Next time be more affirmative and decisive no matter how difficult it may be. Remember you have goals here and how you act NOW matters more than how you may act in 2 weeks or a month or whatever. You don't have unlimited time to get your act together so despite the present dire circumstances, you need to get a grip.

Next time, say "yes, please leave me alone" and YOU hang up without waiting for her to say anything. 

Not "what do you mean" and "whatever you want". Stop asking her questions and stop leaving the decisions up to her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> sadman
> 
> Sorry about your dad and as far as your wife goes, right at this moment you want nothing to do with her but you are far from done with her. So, since you are still looking for advice I will offer the following.
> 
> ...



I think I got that across when we spoke. I barely said a word to her and the "what do you mean" was more out of confusion. The "whatever you want" was because I just don't care anymore but you are right....I actually do NOT want her around me right now at all because I feel very weak after all that's happened and its not going to help. Next time she texts or calls me I will let her know to leave me alone.

Thanks


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry about your dad, take time to be with your family. If your wife cared about you at all, no matter how many times you pushed her away she would still be there for you.I'm glad you are sounding more lucid. Hang in there.

One question that's burning in my mind, why in the world did her friend move in when you left?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Sorry about your dad, take time to be with your family. If your wife cared about you at all, no matter how many times you pushed her away she would still be there for you.I'm glad you are sounding more lucid. Hang in there.
> 
> One question that's burning in my mind, why in the world did her friend move in when you left?


Well she offered to be there for me whenever I want the other day but I don't want her there right now.

The friend moved in about two weeks before this all went down. She got a job up here but had no place to live. She was already friends with my wife (online games, talking, vent etc.) so we both agreed she could move in for a bit to help her get on her feet with the new job.

Wife told me the other day the friend is leaving next week for her new place.


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

I am very sorry about your dad.

Your wife is not marriage material.

I think moving back in is a bad idea. 

Things will get better, and I am sorry about the difficulties in your life right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman

I said a prayer for your Dad.

You are seeing very clearly now.

It is time to focus on you and your future.

Stay tough.

And Lenzi is right. Make your own decisions for you.

HM64


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Update:

Day 2 of the 180.

I went over to some friends to grill after work yesterday to try and relax, it was fun.

I got back my friends place I am staying with and my wife was constantly texting her friend that I stay with for status updates on me. My wife was worried about the fact that I didn't want to talk to her about it earlier when she called me. Her friend said she is done telling my wife anything about how I am doing so she just kept texting back stuff like "I don't know how he is doing." 

I had a talk with the friends I am living with and told them no more passing information between us. I don't want to know anything and I don't want her to know anything.

Also got a job offer yesterday evening lol. Awesome timing. The job is in another state as well. Too much stuff happening at once.

I will keep updating what happens over the course of the next week or two while trying to stay with the 180.

Thanks!


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Update:
> 
> Day 2 of the 180.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the sun is starting to peek through the clouds. Stay strong, man, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but it honestly can't and won't get any worse. Upward and onward!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> Sounds like the sun is starting to peek through the clouds. Stay strong, man, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but it honestly can't and won't get any worse. Upward and onward!


Amen to that. Right now I am just trying to decide how ....abrupt? to be when she texts me asking how my dad is or how I am doing.

Thinking of just ignoring her completely but honestly I am just too nice of a guy, I have trouble just ignoring someone, being rude or hurting someone else, even if they have hurt me. I do want to ignore any texts unless they have to do with her saying "I want to work on our marriage". But that will probably never happen now.

its amazing, this all just seems like a dream. I still cant believe this happened to me. I never would have thought that my wife would flip out like this. I guess no one thinks it will happen to them, everything going great and then one day BAM! "I'm into another guy and I have all these issues with our marriage"

After going through this and if it ends in divorce, its going to take a long time for me to trust anyone. I don't feel like I can trust anyone right now at all and definitely feel like marriage vows don't mean crap to people now. I get that its an old antiquated practice but I still meant the words I said regardless. Too bad my wife was not the same.

I have a lot of respect for anyone that has gone through this type of stuff. I never knew pain and suffering like this before in my life.

I will keep you all updated.

Thanks!


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thinking of just ignoring her completely but honestly I am just too nice of a guy, I have trouble just ignoring someone, being rude or hurting someone else, even if they have hurt me.


You know what they say about nice guys. Especially in a situation like this. Stop labeling yourself as "being too nice" and get tough and ignore her without feeling guilty about it. Or, be nice just like you always were but don't expect things to improve.



sadman79 said:


> I do want to ignore any texts unless they have to do with her saying "I want to work on our marriage". But that will probably never happen now.


Probably not. But there's still a chance. Don't do anything to make things worse- but I'm being repetitive.



sadman79 said:


> its amazing, this all just seems like a dream. I still cant believe this happened to me. I never would have thought that my wife would flip out like this. I guess no one thinks it will happen to them, everything going great and then one day BAM! "I'm into another guy and I have all these issues with our marriage"


Yes, been there. My marriage crashed in a span of less than a year, things went from good, to bad to much worse to downright ugly. You get this feeling that it's unreal because that's good old "human denial" trying to protect you from the shock. In some ways it's good in other ways it's bad because it can freeze you and stop you from taking the proper actions when you need to move quickly.



sadman79 said:


> After going through this and if it ends in divorce, its going to take a long time for me to trust anyone. I don't feel like I can trust anyone right now at all and definitely feel like marriage vows don't mean crap to people now. I get that its an old antiquated practice but I still meant the words I said regardless.


I don't know that I'd ever trust anyone ever again and I'd never get married again. As you said, you meant those words but she didn't. You never know what someone else is thinking, you never know what they're capable of doing, why put yourself in that situation again? Yes marriage is an old antiquated practice prone to failure and it can be rather expensive to break what is nothing more than a financial contract. 



sadman79 said:


> I have a lot of respect for anyone that has gone through this type of stuff. I never knew pain and suffering like this before in my life.


It gets better.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks Lenzi,

One thing I know is that she will eventually text me and say "hi" I will ignore it then she will text again asking how I or my dad is doing and I will ignore it. Then she will probably text again asking why I am ignoring her and I will once again ignore it.

Then she will text again saying mean crap like "ok I guess its over finally since you don't want to talk or respond to me"

At this point is where my wimpy nice guy starts to break down because her statement is just bullcrap and mean. I want to just ignore things like that as well correct? I want to say something like "I don't want to talk or see you until you want to be in this marriage" but not sure there is any use, I am finished talking to her about us.

Basically you are saying to ignore her completely until she is begging to come back to the marriage? Sorry I know this is repetitive but man it is hard to keep ignoring someone who will keep texting you and then throw out hurtful things like "I guess its over then" threats etc. and I know her, I don't see her begging, I see her getting angry and leaving for good.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I want to say something like "I don't want to talk or see you until you want to be in this marriage" but not sure there is any use, I am finished talking to her about us.


If you say something like that, what you are basically saying is that you want her to decide to be in this marriage. You are saying that you are ready, willing and able to talk to her and try to work things out "if" she agrees to it. I am paraphrasing here. You are saying right now that you are finished talking to her only "if" she isn't willing to work on things.

That goes against everything I told you about being strong, tough, and not asking questions and not leaving the decisions up to her.

Just freaking IGNORE HER TEXTS unless they're about something "business related" that you have to deal with, do not talk to her about anything personal or anything about the relationship or anything about fixing the marriage.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> If you say something like that, what you are basically saying is that you want her to decide to be in this marriage. You are saying that you are ready, willing and able to work things out "if" she agrees to it.
> 
> That goes against everything I told you about being strong, tough, and not asking questions and not leaving the decisions up to her.
> 
> Just freaking IGNORE HER TEXTS unless they're about something "business related" that you have to deal with, do not talk to her about anything personal or anything about the relationship or anything about fixing the marriage.


Thanks Lenzi,

yes that's what I am going to do, my question is for how long do I ignore her....forever?


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

The point is, answering her text gains you nothing, and in fact might hurt your chances. It sounds to me like she was headed for the door either way. At least this way, you (a) maintain a small chance of getting her back (though I don't see why you would want her); (b) maintain some dignity; and (c) this will help you start to detach a bit--something that will be useful to whether you R or not. 

I would ignore her until YOU start to feel less desperate to win her back, and are looking at things from a more detached, objective view. If she uses this as an excuse to call it quits, trust me, she was going to anyway.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> The point is, answering her text gains you nothing, and in fact might hurt your chances. It sounds to me like she was headed for the door either way. At least this way, you (a) maintain a small chance of getting her back (though I don't see why you would want her); (b) maintain some dignity; and (c) this will help you start to detach a bit--something that will be useful to whether you R or not.
> 
> I would ignore her until YOU start to feel less desperate to win her back, and are looking at things from a more detached, objective view. If she uses this as an excuse to call it quits, trust me, she was going to anyway.


Good point....


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Lenzi,
> 
> yes that's what I am going to do, my question is for how long do I ignore her....forever?


Until and unless she shows REAL POSITIVE EFFORTS towards fixing what she broke, including but not limited begging you for reconsideration, agreeing to do anything you ask of her, doing anything you say even if it involved some sort of personal sacrifice. At which point you can then break the no contact and slowly let her show you how she's going to make things right, but while doing so never ever show that you are weak by staying the course I advised above. 

If you want a rough time frame.. let's say in 2 weeks she says she'll do anything if you will take her back. You could then respond "Ok, I'm listening". See what she has to offer. 

We'll go from there.

There are tons of threads here about what is required of the cheating partner to make things right such as writing a letter to the OM to never contact her again. Go read some and make your own custom list and don't settle for anything less.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Hey Sandman new to this thread sorry but I usually stay in the infidelity section. You seem like you got a handle on the 180 understand that when she texts you if you need to respond or feel it is going in a bad direction just do it monosyllable. Simple Yes or No maybe a Good. Keep it simple and closed do not leave any open ends for her to talk into. Right now you are at your most vulnerable and when you should be able to depend on your wife she is to busy trying to figure out if she even wants to be with you. When you get that I will be still be friends crap be honest with her, tell her your friends do not betray you, your friends do not take your heart and shyte on it. Also I think more may be going on here than you know so keep the 180. 

1. You working out?

2. Spend time with friends go out and DO stuff even if it is just hitting the movies or hiking or whatever but GET THE HELL out of the apartment.

3. When looking at the future look at what is best for YOU anticipate that she will NOT be part of it and plan accordingly. This is YOUR life YOU are the number 1 priority.

4. Keep posting I lost my father when I was young as well and tho we had a brutal past it still hurt like hell. Stay with your friends and limit your time along. The wolves of the mind always attack when you are alone.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks Cel. Yes I am working out and trying to get out a lot.

UPDATE:

Wife just texted me tonight: "I know you don't want to hear from me but I am praying for you and your dad and I hope you are ok "

and then another text 1 minute later: "And I will let you know ASAP when Jenna (her friend) moves out so you can move back into your home."

I have not responded and am not. Very hard for me but im not going to.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Hey Sandman "love the name by the way" I wanted to suggest somethings for you just to help you figure your way through this.


1. Start a journal of what you want from her this should include her commitment to you and a due date on when you will move on you can add to this as you go along or even take away from it. This is for you to understand YOU and what you need in the relationship. It is also to make you give yourself a date on when you will be done being left in the wind which is for you self esteem. Right now you probably feel a low as a snail back end I know I would your wife is unsure if she wants to be with you and your dad is in bad condition. I can guess where you are right now and although I have not had them happen at once I have had them happen separately so your self esteem and getting you feeling good about yourself. This journal will help you be positive also add any things you think you might want to change about yourself.


2. Everyday do something good just for YOURSELF it can be anything eating, drinking or whatever just do it with the idea that you love yourself and are doing in a spirit of love for yourself. Remember that even if no one likes you or loves you YOU can love you. I did this for years as I was growing up.

3. Sounds like you have good friends don't be afraid to open up to them and let them see you. Talk to them about your doubts let them help you I bet they want to be there for you and one of my fondest memories is of my best friend coming around and being there for me when I was going through some shyte.

4. I am unsure if this has been suggested but I would recommend the books HIs Needs Her Needs and Love Busters these are good books to read because they will help YOU understand not only what to give your partner but what YOU are looking for and more importantly NEED. If you have the kindle app and are strapped for cash let me know I will see if I can loan them to you.

5. Don't dwell on the relationship I know this is probably impossible but when you start thinking of her and get depressed think of the things that YOU have to offer in a relationship. Are you funny? Generous lover? Compassionate? Good cleaner? Love to do romantic things? Make a list of the GOOD things you do in a relationship so that you can remind yourself of them. And change it around it is not YOUR loss if she decides to move on It is HER loss to lose you.

6. Don't be afraid to be angry or to feel betrayed these are both valid emotions just be careful how you act on them.


We are all here for you so don't think for a moment you are alone.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks Cel,

I am going to try the journal thing for a while. I don't see much hope right now at all but from what I heard of other stories, sometimes it seems absolutely gone and them it turns around. I have been reading a few books lately on this like, "Love yourself like your life depends on it" and "The married man sex life primer 2011". The first one being much more helpful to me with exercises to help your mind to love yourself again.

Human beings are complicated no doubt. I really need to focus on loving myself which seems just impossible right now. I have to keep at it and hopefully therapy will help with that as well. I am realizing I put our marriage ahead of myself in every way. I even put her opinions and feelings towards me above my own opinions and feelings for myself. Co-dependent? not sure, probably.

This is day 3 of the 180. I did not respond to her texts from last night. I am feeling pretty down right now thinking about her a lot. It the part of me that's afraid to let go. The part of me that's scared to ignore her for my own good. The part of me that's afraid she will leave because of me ignoring her but as BK23 said, if she uses this as a reason to leave then it was never going to work anyways as her level of remorse and commitment will not be enough.

I am hopeful and am sticking to the 180 all the way. I told my friend I will probably need help in the coming days when my wife starts texting mean lashing out texts saying its over since I am not talking to her and crap like that. I let him know I will really need him to help me during that time when it comes. He understood completely and agreed this is the only card I have left to play in this situation.

I will keep updating. Thanks again Cel and everyone. I really appreciate the support. It really helps the situation to know there are other awesome human being out there that have gone through this and made it out alive just fine


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Update: Tonight has been very hard for some reason. After ignoring her texts last night I find I am missing her tonight. She has not texted me again. I wonder if she is out partying with her wonderful influence of a friend. But I guess that's no longer my concern.

Just a hard night I guess. Could use some inspiration.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Update:

Day 4 of the 180, I wake up every day from a nightmare. Sometimes I remember them sometimes I don't. Every time I remember them it is my wife doing something to emotionally destroy me, its so painful that I wake up from it. So every morning I am depressed from this and missing her.

I have to pep talk myself and remind myself what has gone down to get a grip again. I hope this goes away soon.

My mind is my own worst enemy right now. I keep thinking about our anniversary which is coming up near the end of august and how I will handle that if we are divorced. 4th of july is coming up, we used to always cuddle and watch the fireworks, probably not now. Christmas etc...there are all these events during the year that will just be a constant damn reminder of her. Has anyone any advice on how they dealt with those times?

I am going to hit the gym today but other than that I have no idea what to do to keep myself busy today. I did start drawing again so maybe I will do that. Still thinking about her and what she did this weekend.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Are you close to the hospital where your father is an inpatient?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Are you close to the hospital where your father is an inpatient?


No not anymore. They flew him away. He is now stable but in a full blown coma.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> No not anymore. They flew him away. He is now stable but in a full blown coma.


I was going to say that visiting him would be a great option.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Update:
> 
> Day 4 of the 180, I wake up every day from a nightmare. Sometimes I remember them sometimes I don't. Every time I remember them it is my wife doing something to emotionally destroy me, its so painful that I wake up from it. So every morning I am depressed from this and missing her.
> 
> ...


You mind is your enemy you got that spot on. So lets take it from the top on that alone. You have some very negative thoughts that are going to be going around your mind.

1. What is she doing?

2. Is she cheating?

3. How come she does not love?

4. Am I unattractive?

5. No one will want me if she does not want me.

6. Why is my love not good enough?

Sound about right? Yeah I been there man here is how you deal with it. She is worried the same way about YOU. I she can't get her head out of her butt to know that you are a great guy and she is screwing up then some other lucky girl will be happy to have you. Easy for me to say huh? So you are maybe a shade doubtful the next time you are out I want you to look every girl in the eye when you talk to them. Just for a day make the effort you will see interest in their eyes no doubt. Part of the problem is her loving you have somehow equated out to YOU loving YOU. If she does not love you then you think you are not worth loving you know and recognize this so when it comes up tell yourself OUT LOUD that it is untrue. Then reflect on your friends they love you and could care less if she does.

Now holidays stop thinking of them. If you must I want you to make plans with your friends TODAY to be with them and go party. Yep do not even think that for one second you will be with her instead COUNT on her not being part of those plans. So make some awesome July 4th plans as for anniversary same thing make plans to go out with friends do bar, club or movie something fun.

If you don't have anything to do at home take your sketch pad to the park or a coffee shop and sit down. Take a book and start reading at the shop and just chill let the world go by. You go no worries you got a job, a car and a place to stay you have great friends who support you. You are doing just fine. When the date comes for the toxic friend to move out THEN decide on what you want to do until that day you just chill with life for now.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> You mind is your enemy you got that spot on. So lets take it from the top on that alone. You have some very negative thoughts that are going to be going around your mind.
> 
> 1. What is she doing?
> 
> ...


Exactly right on the thoughts CEL. I keep feeling despair. I am very down on myself no doubt. I am 34 years old, 80 pounds over weight. Women do not even look me in the eye right now. I am working on that but it is a long process to lose that much weight. Not much else I can do I guess. I have anxiety to even try to approach a random woman and say anything to her. Don't know what to say and I bet a lot of women get freaked out when a fat guy comes up to them and tries to talk to them.

I honestly just don't think I am ready for women right now. No confidence in my physical form. I know I am a kind and compassionate person but a lot of women just can't get past the initial physical assessment it seems, so I have to work on that no doubt. Also, it is good for me. It will take a while to lose that much weight but oh well, I have time I guess. I need to be comfortable in own skin.

Right now I just keep wanting her to text or call me in an explosion of tears saying how sorry she is that she screwed up and begging for forgiveness. However the realistic side of me knows this is probably not going to happen and if it does, it is not going to happen on day 4 haha. There is no way I can text or call her at this point as well. 

I still have hope for our marriage. Hope is a good thing but sometimes I wish I could shut it off because it is currently driving me insane.

Anyways, I have to figure out soon how to break it to her that I am not moving back in at the end of this month. She will probably ask if I am still going to pay rent then since she thinks I will be moving back in for July. I plan on telling her I am not paying rent since I am not moving back in after all (if we have not reconciled by this point which I am thinking we will not be this soon). At this point she could get mad and demand I pay rent since I am on the lease but I doubt it. Not sure what's going to happen there. She has been pretty nice as far as that stuff goes through this. She has mentioned that she would not make me pay rent etc. last month since I was the ones that moved out when she should have so not sure she would even get mad.

Right now I am just trying to disconnect but holy crap is it hard to. So far, so good on day 4 but it feels like it is getting harder and harder each day when she doesn't come around and I don't get that text or call. I just have to stay strong and keep busy and hopefully my mind will detach over more time.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Okay you have some things hanging in the air here that you need to address. The 180 does not cover financial stuff. So I would call her and get this housing situation settled once and for all. Some points to address.

1. You don't want to live with her if she will not commit to working on the relationship this means reading the books and actually being in the relationship to be with you. This is your point if she says she is not ready then say okay I am staying away then and then tell her that this limbo is no good for you and hurts you. That you are coming to a place where you will need to move on. This is not an ultimatum and don't make it sound like one this is a statement of intent.

2. Inform her you are under a lot of stress and need to work on you that this continued back and forth with her is not good for you. That if she wants to recommit great but if not then to leave you alone as it only drains you. Be honest tell her you needed your WIFE during this time not a friend with conditions if she cannot be that WIFE then you would appreciate not having the friend thing as it is unfair to you.

3. Divorce is an option let her know that given the current way of things if she feels she cannot be with you then divorce is an option but also be upfront with her that you will NOT be friends.


My girl the first time I met her friend zoned me and I told her upfront I was not that guy she could date me or not but I would not be her friend. So we did not talk for a year then I met her again and asked her out we have been together ever since. A wife that suddenly wants to be your friend is a shyte friend that you do not need. These are all boundaries that you need to set up for YOU. All of these have very little to do with her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Wife just texted me again:

"I am worried about you & if it is ok with you maybe we can see each other this week?"

My plan is to ignore completely, makes me feel like crap but not sure what else to do. I don't want to see her until she wants to be in the marriage again. No point in talking about anything relationship wise until then. I am sure she is genuinely concerned for me with my dad situation but she has got to have some consequences for what has gone down.

Everyone agree that I should not respond at all? If so I'm sure the mean hurtful "Well I guess it is over then since you wont talk to me" texts will be on their way soon.

God I hate ignoring someone I love, it hurts me to ignore her....I feel like an azzhole when I really shouldn't.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

If your instincts got you what you wanted, why are you in this forum?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If your instincts got you what you wanted, why are you in this forum?


Very true. Don't know why it is so damn hard for me to be "mean" to her after everything she has said and her emotional affair. I really need to stop being a super nice guy all the damn time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Very true. Don't know why it is so damn hard for me to be "mean" to her after everything she has said and her emotional affair. I really need to stop being a super nice guy all the damn time.


It's not being "mean" to her.

It's being "good" to you.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Wife just texted me again:
> 
> "I am worried about you & if it is ok with you maybe we can see each other this week?"
> 
> ...



This will get me flamed but I think this is actually a reach out. I would set it up for time that works for you and you do have to talk about your living arrangements and what you are looking for. What is the break through you are waiting for her to call you up and tell you that she is willing to work on the marriage? I would go out with her but keep distant and make sure for her to understand that if the marriage is over than you no longer want her as a friend.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

I'd respond to the effect of "I need some time and space and as far as I can tell, we don't have anything to discuss at this point".

See what she comes back with. 

Keep your distance, and keep her off balance.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Update:

Well I officially screwed everything up last night. I finally decided that I would call her quick and tell her I am fine and my dad is fine since she seems truly concerned. I planned it out that it would be short and sweet. I should have known there was no way she would let it be short and sweet.

I called and told her "Yeah I just wanted to let you know I am fine and my dad is stable."

She said that's great and was really happy for me. Then I said "well ok just wanted to let you know, you have a good night"....no sound on the other line. I say "Hello?" she says yeah in a crying voice.

I ask what's wrong she says nothing so I say ok and am about to say goodbye again when she says "I just really miss you" and she starts crying. We talk a bit about the living arrangements (she does not want me to pay rent if I don't want to and am not living there). We got off the phone soon after. I then screwed the dog with this next part:

I texted her saying "If I wanted to come over tonight to sleep with you, would you object?"

She replied no, I told her I would be there in a little while. I was hopefull and stupid. For the first time I heard my wife say "I really miss you" while crying, it gave me hope and so I wanted to be with her. How stupid I was.

I got there and immediately she was the opposite. We cuddled but she started crying tremendously, like out loud baby crying. She said she thought she would be more touchy feely but she just doesn't feel romantic towards me anymore. She says "it sucks, you caress me and hold me but I don't feel the same towards you" She said a lot of "im so sorry I am not a better wife to you" while balling her eyes out. "I'm so sorry for everything I have done to you, you have only been a great, loving husband for the entire time we have been together."

I told her that maybe I should leave, now realizing what I got myself into. She didn't want me to so we kept talking (mostly me listening). She really has convinced herself that she is not romantically intimate with me and has not been for years and years but has been faking it for me.

I told her that I would release her from this marriage if it was truly causing her this much pain. She replied with "I don't think you could release me and I don't think I could live without you" crying the entire time she said it (she was crying about 100% of the time I was there.)

I told her I cant do this to myself anymore and that I was not sure what to do. She said she was pretty sure the only thing we could do at this point is divorce.

We slept on it and in the morn she felt the same. She feels that intimacy and romantic feelings are something that cannot be worked on at all. I told her fine, I got pissed and said "thanks for holding all this shyte in for 12 years and faking being romantic for me, Jesus Christ that's amazing" I was also crying at this point. She started crying again and all of a sudden I became calm. Completely calm because I knew it was over finally. I told her "ok, ok, I do not want to file for divorce because I do not want it, so you will have to be the one to do it."

Then she got mad and said "well no we are back at square one, I don't know what to do at all." She said she just doesn't think intimacy can be fixed. I said ok fine. Told her I would talk to her later this week.

She texted me back saying "Im going to at least finish my homework assignment from therapy. Lets just agree we had an awful night & take a couple days to reflect on it & cool off. I know we still have a bit of time before u need to make a decision on the lease. Does that sound ok?"

I replied: "Sounds fine. I agree we had a bad night no doubt."

She replied: "Ok, im going to take this week to really think about things. Especially on my two extra days off this week. I'm not promising anything, but maybe u are right & I need more time."

I said "ok have a good week, I will leave you alone."

I have talked to a few friends on how to repair this absolute mistake and they all recommend that at this point I should go completely 100% dark on her and not reply to anything whatsoever if there is still a chance.

Have I screwed this up too much at this point to repair? I am planning on leaving her alone and just working on myself like I have been. I am trying to read some stuff to realize my own self worth because right now it is crap.

I really need some hope, my heart is just shattered.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I know that people slip up when doing the 180 but I really feel like I just screwed myself completely.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Update:
> 
> Well I officially screwed everything up last night. I finally decided that I would call her quick and tell her I am fine and my dad is fine since she seems truly concerned. I planned it out that it would be short and sweet. I should have known there was no way she would let it be short and sweet.
> 
> ...


This is insanity. She knows exactly what she wants and how she feels, but isnt willing to be the "bad guy" and pull the trigger to actually end it. She is screwing with you big time. So, MY suggestion in addition to going dark on her, YOU go and file for divorce. If she truly is on the fence about the marriage, which I for one dont think she is, that will wake her up. (you can stop a divorce at any point) If she really is done then it will get things over with for you. She is being cruel to you with her current tactic...if she really cared about your feelings, she would put an end to this, and stop creating false hopes. Take control of the situation away from her.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Honestly, Dude, you messed up, but it probably not in the way you think. In terms of diminishing your chance of happily reconciling with her, I'm sorry to say I don't think you hurt your chances, because your chances were already essentially nil. You need to start coming to terms with this reality, and finding a way to move on and be happy. 

That is how you actually screwed up, you set yourself back emotionally, and opened yourself up to this woman only to get burned again. Are you noticing a pattern? This woman is not capable of understanding or caring about what you feel. She is operating on a very basic, selfish level, only concerned for how she feels and what she needs moment to moment.

One way or another you're going to get through this. If you want to do it as gracefully, as fast as possible, and with minimum pain. You will go dark and start the divorce.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> This is insanity. She knows exactly what she wants and how she feels, but isnt willing to be the "bad guy" and pull the trigger to actually end it. She is screwing with you big time. So, MY suggestion in addition to going dark on her, YOU go and file for divorce. If she truly is on the fence about the marriage, which I for one dont think she is, that will wake her up. (you can stop a divorce at any point) If she really is done then it will get things over with for you. She is being cruel to you with her current tactic...if she really cared about your feelings, she would put an end to this, and stop creating false hopes. Take control of the situation away from her.


:iagree: This post says it all. File.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Can someone tell me the process of filing? I have no idea where to do to start it off or how much it costs etc. I hate that I would have to pay for it when its something she wants but I cant keep doing this forever.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Can someone tell me the process of filing? I have no idea where to do to start it off or how much it costs etc. I hate that I would have to pay for it when its something she wants but I cant keep doing this forever.


Do you want to file?


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Can someone tell me the process of filing? I have no idea where to do to start it off or how much it costs etc. I hate that I would have to pay for it when its something she wants but I cant keep doing this forever.


You're better off doing this with a lawyer, but if you can't afford one, and she won't put up a fight--no kids and no big assets means not much to fight over--then you can file on your own. 

I'm a lawyer, not family law, but this is what I'd tell someone to do. Find the phone number for the clerk at your local family courthouse--depending on the state and city, this might be stand alone or part of the state court. Google is your friend.

The clerk can give you the information you need to file for divorce "Pro Se" (lawyer talk for on your own). He or she will give you the forms, and in bigger cities the clerk often has someone there to answer your questions and talk you through the process. Even if you go this route, make sure you pay a family law attorney for a couple hours to make sure you crossed your Ts and dotted your Is. 

Costs can vary. With lawyers and a protracted court battle, a divorce can hit six-figures. Uncontested with no or minimal lawyer intervention and not kids or property to divide, you could possibly keep it under a grand.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do you want to file?



No I do not want to file. I want to try everything else before doing that. But a big part of me is starting to realize that a lot more than likely she is not going to come around. I can try not talking to her for a much longer period of time I guess, not sure that will do anything now. She does start to really miss me maybe I should have stayed away much longer.

My friends think I should not file yet. They think I should just go dark completely for a month or until late September when the lease is up. If she doesn't come around by then, then there was no chance and then get off the lease and file.

I have heard of people separating for months and months. This has only been slightly over a month now. So I try to put things into perspective a little and realize that it can take a while for the other to come around when this kind of thing happens.

This is insanity. Its so hard to enjoy the things I enjoyed when I was married. Every damn thing reminds me of her because we always did everything together. I need to get out and meet some new friends where I live but I have no idea how to do that. Meeting women (when I'm ready again) is even more of a mystery to me.

Just gotta keep working on myself. I hope I can get through this. The pain is just really bad right now.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Legally separaate, at least. That protects you in case she piles up some bills, which could easily happen (happened to me). And stay dark for at least a month. 

The night with her was a wreck, don't you think? It has to be a two way street, and right now you're really the only one even in a car...


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

So filing on your own does she still have to sign something? Im sure she does but I guess I will just check it out.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Legally separaate, at least. That protects you in case she piles up some bills, which could easily happen (happened to me). And stay dark for at least a month.
> 
> The night with her was a wreck, don't you think? It has to be a two way street, and right now you're really the only one even in a car...



I like this plan more. I will check into legal separation and then go completely dark


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

If you want to be back with your wife, shag her really well.

I'm not trying to be flippant, especially during this difficult time of yours. I'm just saying you need to show her that you are no boring old dud compared to her OM.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

staystrong said:


> If you want to be back with your wife, shag her really well.
> 
> I'm not trying to be flippant, especially during this difficult time of yours. I'm just saying you need to show her that you are no boring old dud compared to her OM.



Unfortunately she will not be up for that right now and I am not going to force myself on her. She said she is going to think about everything a lot this week. My plan is to go completely dark now. I could try to do something with her but that is pointless now.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Have I screwed this up too much at this point to repair?


Probably. Maybe. Maybe not. No way to really know, but it's fair to say that you did a lot of damage.

She was missing you, it appeared that by you pulling back and at least "acting" like you were moving on, she was having second thoughts, but once she had you "back in her lap" so to speak, you lost all of that new "perceived value" you developed by appearing somewhat strong (for once).

It's like an alcoholic saying 'I didn't drink for a month and I just drank a case of beer, did I fry my liver this time"?

I bet if you had stayed strong and tough and distant for a couple of months- like I've been urging you to do- and then gradually allowed her to prove to you she really wanted to make it right and then slowly resuming contact with her, it wouldn't have burned out quite so fast. All you can do is get back on the wagon and stop beating yourself up because it won't do you any good.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Probably. Maybe. Maybe not. No way to really know, but it's fair to say that you did a lot of damage.
> 
> She was missing you, it appeared that by you pulling back and at least "acting" like you were moving on, she was having second thoughts, but once she had you "back in her lap" so to speak, you lost all of that new "perceived value" you developed by appearing somewhat strong (for once).
> 
> ...


Another opportunity may arise in the future.

Now you know what Not to do.

Reset and do what's needed to get to a point where you are not reacting to her every twitch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Pretty depressed today about everything. Feel like I have lost her completely and there is zero hope for us.

I have been trying to do things to not think about it but it seems like no matter what I do I am reminded of her and us. I hope this starts to go away soon. I am going to the gym after work and then might hit the bowling alley (by myself) after that.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> No I do not want to file. I want to try everything else before doing that. But a big part of me is starting to realize that a lot more than likely she is not going to come around. I can try not talking to her for a much longer period of time I guess, not sure that will do anything now. She does start to really miss me maybe I should have stayed away much longer.
> 
> My friends think I should not file yet. They think I should just go dark completely for a month or until late September when the lease is up. If she doesn't come around by then, then there was no chance and then get off the lease and file.
> 
> ...



Go dark and follow your friends advice you really have nothing to lose. So give it time until you are ready and going dark may change her mind, I don't know.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Go dark and follow your friends advice you really have nothing to lose. So give it time until you are ready and going dark may change her mind, I don't know.


Thanks CEL. That's my plan. I talked to some random women today which improved my spirits. Going to go out tonight and bowl my ass off!


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks CEL. That's my plan. I talked to some random women today which improved my spirits. Going to go out tonight and bowl my ass off!


Look into getting in a bowling league if you like it something with a group or start a group bowling night with your friends. The best thing you can do is just move on with your life. She was a part of your life a big part but she was NOT you whole life this is a learning experience for you. Either way once you see the other side of this you will be forever changed you will be a better man for the self introspection you are doing.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Day two of no contact...again.

Feeling pretty bad again today. Had thoughts of looking on a dating site to try and meet some women. Got mad at myself for thinking about it, then got sad. Now I am missing who I thought my wife was. I pray to God she comes around but I feel pretty hopeless.

Anyone have any inspirational books to make me feel better about being crapped on constantly?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Day two of no contact...again.
> 
> Feeling pretty bad again today. Had thoughts of looking on a dating site to try and meet some women. Got mad at myself for thinking about it, then got sad. Now I am missing who I thought my wife was. I pray to God she comes around but I feel pretty hopeless.
> 
> Anyone have any inspirational books to make me feel better about being crapped on constantly?


Have you read the one I linked for you in the PM?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Have you read the one I linked for you in the PM?


oh jeez! forgot about that. Thanks! Yeah going to read through it tonight then. Thanks for the reminder.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Day two of no contact...again.
> 
> Feeling pretty bad again today. Had thoughts of looking on a dating site to try and meet some women. Got mad at myself for thinking about it, then got sad. Now I am missing who I thought my wife was. I pray to God she comes around but I feel pretty hopeless.
> 
> Anyone have any inspirational books to make me feel better about being crapped on constantly?



No dating sites just yet. You aren't ready. Get happy and then hit single circuit. If you go fishing while bleeding you will attract nothing but sharks.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> No dating sites just yet. You aren't ready. Get happy and then hit single circuit. If you go fishing while bleeding you will attract nothing but sharks.


Yeah I can just feel that I am not ready right now. I actually think about spending time with another woman and it just hurts so I know it wouldn't be fair to me or her so I guess I will play some video games tonight and dork out hah!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Its a strange feeling. part of me wants to get my own place but my friends I am living with are asking me to stay with them and go dark longer on my wife before completely giving up and moving on.

Guess I will just save my money and get ready. I HATE being in limbo like this. Its like, I love her and I honor our marriage (even though she really hasn't) so I want to make sure that after all is said and done that I have a clear conscience that I tried everything I could and was the best person I could be through it.

I hate the fact that our friends are all mutual as well. This is kinda awkward. I have strange thoughts still like: what if she gets with another guy and they are serious or get married and then all my friends will get invited because they are her friends and it will hurt me....etc.etc. 

Maybe I need to make some new friends. Who wants to go bowling and play video games? hah


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey, if your friends are encouraging you to stay with them, do so as long as you can to save your money. That is an awesome opportunity. I was actually able to buy a house after my divorce because my sister allowed me to stay with them right after when I had no place to go. Yeah, you feel in limbo, but in the long run, it would be beneficial. 

I'd love to go bowling, I could use new friends too!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Hey, if your friends are encouraging you to stay with them, do so as long as you can to save your money. That is an awesome opportunity. I was actually able to buy a house after my divorce because my sister allowed me to stay with them right after when I had no place to go. Yeah, you feel in limbo, but in the long run, it would be beneficial.
> 
> I'd love to go bowling, I could use new friends too!



Don't happen to live in North Dakota do you? hah!


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## Isuck (Jul 1, 2012)

Way too early and you're over analyzing everything.

Take time now for YOU. Be selfish and stop worrying about her. I read that you keep saying "I honor my marriage vows, not like her" multiple times. I used to say that too, but in reality it doesn't matter at all. I was angry with her for leaving, (like you are now). She had an EA that turned into a PA. I saw the signs and I didn't do anything until it was WAY too late.

I know this old saying is corny as hell, but "if you love something let it go, if it comes back to you, it's yours, if it doesn't it never was." That is very true. The best part is when it does come back, you have to option now of saying "no thanks".

Your wife is a mess right now. She doesn't know if she's coming or going and can't seem to make or stick to a decision to save her life. Let her flounder. Let her go see if the grass is greener, (it rarely is). Odds are she's already taken it to the next level with the other guy anyway.

Work on you. Go get in shape. Don't date yet, you're not ready. Get your body and mind in shape first. Control what you can control and do not let things you can't, (ie HER), make you sick to your stomach. It's hard right now for you because it's so new. The wound is new and it's hurting bad. I know I've been there. The good part is no matter how bleak it looks right now, the sun will come up tomorrow, the birds will chirp and most importantly life will go on. Life goes on with or without her.

Time really does heal. Take advantage of that fact.

You're on a long journey and you're only at the beginning right now. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, trust me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Isuck said:


> Way too early and you're over analyzing everything.
> 
> Take time now for YOU. Be selfish and stop worrying about her. I read that you keep saying "I honor my marriage vows, not like her" multiple times. I used to say that too, but in reality it doesn't matter at all. I was angry with her for leaving, (like you are now). She had an EA that turned into a PA. I saw the signs and I didn't do anything until it was WAY too late.
> 
> ...




Thanks Isuck, I really appreciate the words of encouragement. That is my current plan. She said she wants to take this week to think about things so I am leaving her alone completely. Not even going to answer her texts or calls for a month. Which may be annoying for her if she decides she wants a divorce hah.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Have had some strange thoughts/fears last night that maybe some of you that have gone through this can relate to.

I started thinking about how she is easily going to be able to move on with her love life much sooner than I am and since we have many mutual friends I'm sure I will get to hear about it. I keep thinking about situations where I will call a friend to hang out and they will say "No sorry we were invited to your ex wife's new wedding" or just invited to go out with her and her new boyfriend or whatever.

I know I will not move on as fast as her. I'm not the one that wanted out of this marriage so I'm sure with as cute as she is she will have no problem moving on.

These situations scare me and hurt just to think about. I try blocking them out but its hard.

Anyone else had these type of thoughts when going through this? They normal? Am I insane?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Have had some strange thoughts/fears last night that maybe some of you that have gone through this can relate to.
> 
> I started thinking about how she is easily going to be able to move on with her love life much sooner than I am and since we have many mutual friends I'm sure I will get to hear about it. I keep thinking about situations where I will call a friend to hang out and they will say "No sorry we were invited to your ex wife's new wedding" or just invited to go out with her and her new boyfriend or whatever.
> 
> ...


Not insane.

Just too focused on her.

What are you doing for you today?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Not insane.
> 
> Just too focused on her.
> 
> What are you doing for you today?


Well, I am volunteering at the hospital with some kids, might be depressing hah.

Then I have therapy after work. Then going to the gym.

Just scared at what's coming. I'm sure she is going to call or text me saying she wants a divorce at the end of this week and I am not looking forward to a "fun" weekend. I mean I am prepared for those words but I don't want to hear them. 

I am also planning on going to a bonfire out of town over the weekend but depending on my state of mind and what happens with my wife and I, I am not sure I will go. Was planning on going with the friends I am living with. But everyone there is a couple or married so I will be the 5th wheel lol oh well. If I hear some bad news from my wife I don't really want to go all depressed and put that onto other people. But maybe I will just go anyways to try and get out.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

This helps me: operate under the assumption that the worst has already occurred. 

Assume you are 100% getting divorced, and start grieving and doing what you need to do to work past it. If you don't end up getting divorced, you'll be in a much better mental state to move forward either way. 

Whatever she says, you need to get out and have fun. FORCE yourself to go to that bonfire. It's harder to be a sad sack in public, and you might accidentally enjoy yourself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well, I am volunteering at the hospital with some kids, might be depressing hah.
> 
> Then I have therapy after work. Then going to the gym.
> 
> ...


I got two sentences about you and 2 paragraphs about her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I got two sentences about you and 2 paragraphs about her.


There are three sentences about me :smthumbup:

Haha. I am trying my best right now to get my mind in a better place. I am contemplating the human condition and the intricacies of existence....and boobs.

I have also lost 29 pounds now in 5 weeks.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> There are three sentences about me :smthumbup:
> 
> Haha. I am trying my best right now to get my mind in a better place. I am contemplating the human condition and the intricacies of existence....and boobs.
> 
> I have also lost 29 pounds now in 5 weeks.


Concentrate on boobs! :smthumbup:


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well about two weeks ago I was offered a high paying job in another state. I brought it up to my wife the night I went over there (Sunday) and she said it sounded great but that she was not going to move. She said she has moved a lot in her childhood and while growing up and lost her friends every time she did it. She has family here and friends here and does not want to move.

So now this job is getting pretty serious about me. Not sure I can afford to relocate. They do not want to help with relocation. Also I'm afraid that in my current mental state, being completely isolated and not knowing a single person may be a horrible experience.

I also feel like if I left it is basically over with my wife and I. I know that's not necessarily true but it would be a pretty big separation.

Everything is just amazing timing. My wife, my dad, new job....I feel overwhelmed completely. I don't have the money to relocate to Illinois but they would give me a month to save up to move down there. But rent is ALOT more expensive there than it is here.

Also my credit is not amazing with my student loans and car loans and credit cards on it. Not sure I could even get a place that's somewhat nice.

When it rains it pours I guess. I gotta figure out what to do here soon I guess.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Well about two weeks ago I was offered a high paying job in another state. I brought it up to my wife the night I went over there (Sunday) and she said it sounded great but that she was not going to move. She said she has moved a lot in her childhood and while growing up and lost her friends every time she did it. She has family here and friends here and does not want to move.
> 
> So now this job is getting pretty serious about me. Not sure I can afford to relocate. They do not want to help with relocation. Also I'm afraid that in my current mental state, being completely isolated and not knowing a single person may be a horrible experience.
> 
> ...


Sad,

Do you have kids? If you don't I'd be on the next bus out of there. High paying job, that's a good foundation for to starting over. 

That's where you are right now, isn't it. You need to start over. Don't wait for her to come around. Live your life.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Sad,
> 
> Do you have kids? If you don't I'd be on the next bus out of there. High paying job, that's a good foundation for to starting over.
> 
> That's where you are right now, isn't it. You need to start over. Don't wait for her to come around. Live your life.


Gut, I would love to and at the same time the isolation is terrifying with how depressed I am lately. But money is a problem. They want me there by the end of the month (July). Rent out there is expensive as well. We don't have kids or anything thank god. 

I don't have a bed or anything. I suppose I could get a blow up bed to take out there for the time being until I get paid for the first time. I am also worried that certain places will not accept me due to credit and loans I am currently paying. I'm sure some will work with me though.

Just a big step and its hard to do when you love and want your wife to come around. Weird timing I guess. I know I have to do what's right for me but who knows exactly.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Just terrified of being alone right now. Moving away would force me to live in it and I am not sure if it would break me or if it would be good for me. I really just miss my wife right now.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Just terrified of being alone right now. Moving away would force me to live in it and I am not sure if it would break me or if it would be good for me. I really just miss my wife right now.


The road to recovery begins with supporting yourself. 

You may live in a dump for a while but if you stay employed and do a good job things will begin to get positive. Your credit will repair itself. It just takes time and a JOB! Waiting on her should not be an option for you.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

For what it's worth, I say go for it. It may turn things upside down for a bit, but I bet a year from now you'll be glad you did. You said your currently in North Dakota? Wherever this new job is, I bet the singles scene and nightlife is better than North Dakota...


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> For what it's worth, I say go for it. It may turn things upside down for a bit, but I bet a year from now you'll be glad you did. You said your currently in North Dakota? Wherever this new job is, I bet the singles scene and nightlife is better than North Dakota...


Yeah, the new job is in Illinois. I don't even know what the singles scene is haha. I am 34 years old, hate bars, clubs are full of kids it seems. I have no idea how to get out there and have fun at this point. However, I think I am going to just close my eyes and leap.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

I think the move would do you good.

Sleep on the floor and live out of boxes for a few months if you have to.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I think the move would do you good.
> 
> Sleep on the floor and live out of boxes for a few months if you have to.


Yeah just trying to figure out what to say to my wife if I get this job. They just called me about 5 minutes ago and told me I am their number one candidate right now by far. We have some Skype interviews setup for next week. The stuff they want me to do is so easy its just amazing, basically 101 stuff in my field.

I am planning on telling my wife that I am leaving for this job and that maybe some true time apart will help us both realize what we want in life. If its not being with each other then we can make a decision when we come to that bridge.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Take your wife out of the equation--10 years from now, will you be happy you took this job, would you regret not taking it? I think you know the answer...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Passing on this opportunity would look extra weak.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> Take your wife out of the equation--10 years from now, will you be happy you took this job, would you regret not taking it? I think you know the answer...


Yeah with how crazy my wife is right now, I would regret not taking it. However, I also regret leaving my good friends behind as well. The friends I lived with are supportive of me doing whatever I want but they would be sad to see me go. 

I'm not a very outgoing person so I don't make new friends very fast at all. Have very few. But I told this new job I am interested and am willing to do anything to get out there. If they cant help with relocation assistance I will find a way. The lady really liked that I said this.

So I am saving every cent starting now until an offer is made. I am closing my eyes and just going for it. The logical side is saying hell yes! the emotional side is still wanting to be back home with my wife (if she came around).

However I am starting to feel better every day and truly feel like I will make it through this now.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah, the new job is in Illinois. I don't even know what the singles scene is haha. I am 34 years old...


Out of curiosity, and if you mind me asking, what part of Illinois?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Pbartender said:


> Out of curiosity, and if you mind me asking, what part of Illinois?


Lake Forest


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

From my looking online and looking at crime rates and stuff like that, looks like a decent area.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> From my looking online and looking at crime rates and stuff like that, looks like a decent area.


Are they building new Starbucks' there?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> From my looking online and looking at crime rates and stuff like that, looks like a decent area.


It's a very nice area. You could do much, much worse.

It's too bad I'm way out in the far western suburbs, though... You're always welcome to drop me a line when you arrive. There's a few other Chi-towners around here, as well.

Good Luck with the job.

:smthumbup:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Remember when Mr. T had a house there and started chopping down all his trees? They made a big stink about that.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> You have handled this better than most.
> 
> Read the 180 and start using it.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%. You have handled it well, but she has lost respect for you and the only way to get it back is to be strong.

There is no such thing as someone being 100% truthful about affairs. The only reason someone would want to separate is to be able to be physical with someone else. What she has done is mean. She isn't a bad person, or stupid and probably knows that it might not work out with this guy, but she has allowed herself to to be consumed in lust. The devil's attacked, deep down she knows it, and she is a willing to do it anyway. She thinks you will always be there, and rationalizes thinking she can't help herself. What she really needs to understand that actions have consequences, and that happens with experience. 

Tell her that although you feel very sorry for her, that it hurts you to see the person she has become, and how much she will suffer. Since she has already made her decision, and she is no longer the person you fell in love with, you understand you need to find someone else as well. DO NOT LET her string you along.

The best thing you can do is walk away. No need to be her friend. She has disrespected you relationship as well as your friendship. If a friend totally screwed you over, how would you act?

You really do need to take care of yourself. I don't know why people let themselves go. Not taking care of yourself is simply a very negative visual statement about yourself. Lose weight. Buy a new wardrobe. Healthy is attractive. 

Take care of yourself mentally, spiritually, and physically. Work towards getting your head in a good place, work out, run, and go to church. 

I have seen very good women fall victim to adultery. Your wife is under spiritual attack. This rarely happens when the husband is an honestly spiritually strong person. Husbands really should consistently pray for their wives and families. The temptations and attacks are as bad for women, as they are for men.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Take the job you have nothing to lose but your fear if being alone.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Michelleinmichigan said:


> I agree with this 100%. You have handled it well, but she has lost respect for you and the only way to get it back is to be strong.
> 
> There is no such thing as someone being 100% truthful about affairs. The only reason someone would want to separate is to be able to be physical with someone else. What she has done is mean. She isn't a bad person, or stupid and probably knows that it might not work out with this guy, but she has allowed herself to to be consumed in lust. The devil's attacked, deep down she knows it, and she is a willing to do it anyway. She thinks you will always be there, and rationalizes thinking she can't help herself. What she really needs to understand that actions have consequences, and that happens with experience.
> 
> ...



Thanks Michelle,

So would you suggest divorcing her before leaving for this new job?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Michelle,
> 
> So would you suggest divorcing her before leaving for this new job?


Only if you want to.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Michelle,
> 
> So would you suggest divorcing her before leaving for this new job?


Show her you have moved on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Only if you want to.


Well I absolutely do not want to....but there has to come a point, especially if I end up moving away, where one of us has to call it quits and by the looks of it she wont ever do it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well I absolutely do not want to....but there has to come a point, especially if I end up moving away, where one of us has to call it quits and by the looks of it she wont ever do it.


Move - wait 6 months with minimal contact - if she does nothing, then file.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Move - wait 6 months with minimal contact - if she does nothing, then file.


Yeah that's exactly what I am going to do. Thanks Conrad.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Any tips on how to tell a wife "hey im leaving for this job but don't want a divorce....um...cya later"

?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Any tips on how to tell a wife "hey im leaving for this job but don't want a divorce....um...cya later"
> 
> ?


You don't say nothing. You just go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Any tips on how to tell a wife "hey im leaving for this job but don't want a divorce....um...cya later"
> 
> ?



I wouldn't tell her a freaking thing.

Just go.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lenzi said:


> I wouldn't tell her a freaking thing.
> 
> Just go.


Leaving the area is strong emotional communication.

Just the type sadman needs to master.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

lenzi said:


> I wouldn't tell her a freaking thing.
> 
> Just go.


Isn't that just passive aggressive.

I think honesty is the best policy.

you have lost 29 pounds. Have you bought any new clothes? Get Some. Get a new haircut style. Clean up, grow a beard,goattee, cut one off.

Meet your wife, show complete confidence. 

I have seen many things you have done that are not in the 180. For example being cold. You are not cold to someone you are trying to reconcile with, you do not ignore them. The 180 says specifically to be cheerful around the wayward wife. The fact is, the 180 is specifically meant to prepare for divorce and tends to drive the spouse away more often than it will save the marriage. The whole point of the 180 is to help you heal from the trauma you are going through and get over your marriage, not save it. Occasionally, the 180 will make one more attractive to the wayward spouse simply because she admires the strength it shows you have.

You have separated, no one mentioned to you that separation leads to divorce 80% of the time.

Your wife told you many times she wanted to work on the marriage, she told you several times she wanted you to come home. Instead you left her there with someone who can't stand you, daily putting you down.

If you have been offered a job in Illinois and you take it, your marriage has virtually no chance.

Have you checked phone records, emails, texts to see if she has been contacting the Other Man?

She was in an awfully deep fog to get over him so quickly. However, if she did stop contact, change shifts, etc. you had what everyone wants to start reconciliation. If you had posted in the infidelity section you would have gotten a lot of different advice than you have here.

Did you not read Married Man Sex Life Primer? I thought I read that you did.

I believe in marriage. I think plenty of jobs will come along even if your marriage fails. Describing the new job as easy as 101 sounds weak anyway. 

Is your wife saying she finds you unattractive because of your weight?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Isn't that just passive aggressive.
> 
> I think honesty is the best policy.
> 
> ...


Ok, yes if he's still looking to reconcile he might want to consider doing it your way, IF he can show complete confidence and say to her "I've been given a job opportunity in another state and I'm going to take it' and pretty much leave it at that. 

I don't know he's capable of dealing with her in a confident and businesslike sort of way in which case he's better offnot telling her anything and just making decisions about his own life without including her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Isn't that just passive aggressive.
> 
> I think honesty is the best policy.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the replies. Well she didn't really want me to move back in to work on our marriage. She told me that she just wanted to see if that sparked anything for her to help her make the decision faster...which is kind of ridiculous since I was living there not 3 weeks earlier when she first asked this, so how would that help. Also it just felt like I was trying out for the husband role with her. But I also understand that maybe that was just her way of saying "I want to work on it".

Also my wife has never actually said she wanted to work on it. Exactly opposite, not sure where you are getting that as I have explained that I have asked her if she wanted to work on our marriage before and she replied with "I don't know".

I decided to call her tonight because I agree with you that passive aggressive just isn't going to help reconcile anything. We had a good talk and I kept it light and made her laugh a little. When we started talking about us she basically said she still doesn't know and has some therapy to do. She asked me what my thoughts are. I told her with the job, everything in life is kind of up in the air at the moment. She told me "it sounds like a great opportunity for you" in a sad tone and I told her I agreed and was excited. Yet at the same time I made sure she knows that I would rather be with her here and that its hard to put money above someone you love which she agreed. We are both still great people and sometimes shyte happens in life.

I told her "I am sick of taking conflicting advice from people (she has been talking to a lot of people as well and said before that she gets annoyed at how conflicting the advice is) and am just going to do what I think is A, the RIGHT thing to do and B, is the Mature thing to do, this is regardless if we reconcile or not." She sounded kind of shocked at that. I will ask myself these two questions before I do anything regarding her.

Then she asked that once this friend of hers moves out this week, am I moving in? I told her we will see where we are at when that time comes. She said if I move in "we will have to set up some compromises" or ground rules I think she meant. I didn't dig into that and just told her "well ok but I don't want to talk about all that right now (could tell she really didn't either), I just called to see how you were doing since I have not heard from you for over a week, I miss you and have a good night." She said she misses me to and to have a good night as well and almost started crying. We hung up.

So I left it really open and basically laid it out that if I get this job I am leaving unless we are in a good place with each other (which I really doubt we will be by then). I think she saw a different me tonight, a more mature, confident me. A me that can and will move on without her. Unfortunately I think at this point she would rather I just move on. That's the feeling I got from her. She is in complete turmoil within herself. She has no idea what she wants actually. She loves who I am as a person and doesn't want to let go of that. At the same time she also sees this opportunity and doesn't want to hold me back when she is so messed up. That's kinda what I got from her tone and everything.

Otherwise I am in a good place now mentally, I hope (changes a little day to day). I am working my ass off to get this new job. If she doesn't at least express a serious commitment to me and our marriage and I am offered this job, I will leave. Will there be other opportunities...maybe...this good? probably not. But I cannot turn down this opportunity and move back in with her just because she wants to (her words weeks ago) "possibly see if it sparks something in me to make a decision faster one way or the other". I am pro marriage as well, hell I love her to death but I just cant do that to myself. A great career with great pay will be a base to a better life and possibly meeting someone I deserve later on in life. My wife has made it clear she will not move with me so that's that I guess.

Yeah I lost 29 pounds, now 31. Got a hair cut, new clothes the whole works. She noticed and was pleased but that's about it. 

I am out of ideas at this point with her and am starting to emotionally check out as well. I am getting more depressed about the possibility of leaving my friends behind than I am about leaving her behind if I were to get this job. 

If I don't get this job then I will have to, at that time, question myself, A, what's the RIGHT thing to do at this point for myself, for her, etc. and B, what's the MATURE thing to do. By mature I mean no hidden agendas or proving points with anger etc. 

Sorry this is long. I just got back from getting drunk for 24 hours straight at a bonfire and so this might all sound and look terrible.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Sad, she is doing what she is doing for her own interests, she is a lot more selfish than you want to admit. Even her concern for your well being an your dad's, is laced with her wanting attention. She is wanting to eat her cake and have it too. 

She wants you back as a roommate to help with things, with only a token display of emotion from her. You are clearly plan B in her mind and this will last until she finds her new special friend. She has given herself an out as she really has not made an actual commitment to the marriage. Also she wants special arrangements, which means you can look, but don't touch. This will most likely include you finding a room in the house. You deserve more from life than this. Unless she is committed to reconciliation or other legal matters, than I don't really see what there is to talk about with her. All you do is inflict more wounds on yourself....not good.

I congratulate you for your weight loss, not to get her back or even to get other women, but to become a healthier you. I know lots of big fella's that have no problem getting women .... good women ... but what they do have that you don't is confidence. That is one characteristic that is attractive to most people. You may not naturally be a confident guy and is probably a reason you don't meet people easily. This is something that you need to work on for yourself. You need to learn that you are a person of value and someone other want to be round. Spend your time working on you and let her worry about her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

VFW said:


> Sad, she is doing what she is doing for her own interests, she is a lot more selfish than you want to admit. Even her concern for your well being an your dad's, is laced with her wanting attention. She is wanting to eat her cake and have it too.
> 
> She wants you back as a roommate to help with things, with only a token display of emotion from her. You are clearly plan B in her mind and this will last until she finds her new special friend. She has given herself an out as she really has not made an actual commitment to the marriage. Also she wants special arrangements, which means you can look, but don't touch. This will most likely include you finding a room in the house. You deserve more from life than this. Unless she is committed to reconciliation or other legal matters, than I don't really see what there is to talk about with her. All you do is inflict more wounds on yourself....not good.
> 
> I congratulate you for your weight loss, not to get her back or even to get other women, but to become a healthier you. I know lots of big fella's that have no problem getting women .... good women ... but what they do have that you don't is confidence. That is one characteristic that is attractive to most people. You may not naturally be a confident guy and is probably a reason you don't meet people easily. This is something that you need to work on for yourself. You need to learn that you are a person of value and someone other want to be round. Spend your time working on you and let her worry about her.


She doesn't want me back as a roommate to help with things. She can afford everything on her own with no issues. I had confidence, after this type of situation it is easy for people to tell me I lack confidence. Of course I do right now, who wouldn't really. I ACT confident but deep down my confidence and self esteem have been destroyed by someone I thought would never do that. I know it will take time to build them back up. I know there will be a time in the future when I look back on this whole experience and giggle to myself as I contemplate intricacies and end results of every path I have taken in life. Sometimes it really does feel like things happen for a reason and I'm hoping someday I feel the same about this situation whether I get divorced or not.

Yeah, like I said, I am still not sure about moving back in which is why I didn't want to talk about it with her much since it could be weeks away, depending on where I am mentally or if I am even staying. Half of me says its over and the other half wants to keep trying....kind of like her haha. I'm hoping this job hires me and that alone will smash this damn teeter-totter since neither her or I can do it, it seems.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Keep "trying" what exactly?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Keep "trying" what exactly?


Trying to work things out with my marriage of course.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Trying to work things out with my marriage of course.


I asked for a specific reason.

As long as the focus is on "the marriage", it has a much lower probability of working out.

Bettering yourself through exercise, your - new - job, and pursuing your own interests... will result in a better you.

That may even be a you she re-discovers that she wants.

Don't put the cart before the horse.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I asked for a specific reason.
> 
> As long as the focus is on "the marriage", it has a much lower probability of working out.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's what I have been doing, losing weight, hanging out with friends etc. just focusing on myself. It has had no effect on her, I have spoken with her twice in the span of like almost 3 weeks. 

But there is still part of me that wants her back which I think is normal given the situation (this was not something we both wanted to begin with). I would have to agree with a poster earlier who said if I move to Lake Forest, Chicago, my marriage is most likely over. Right now, half of me is willing to accept that and force the other half to go after the job. That's the whole point, to better myself, just feels like I am saying goodbye to one dream to try for a new dream. One is familiar but broken, the new one (job) is unfamiliar and scary. But I have the strength to do it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sad,

Trust me when I tell you, we've been down this road with - literally - dozens of guys.

When what you are looking for (so hard) happens, it happens in an eyeblink. The same way the separation (from you) happened in an eye blink.

Conviction builds over time.

Living an interesting life filled with zest and bounty makes a man attractive. And, if you're not attractive to this particular woman, will you be allowing her opinion to define you?

She likely has her own baggage.

Rather than deal with it, she's chosen to run.

That, my friend, isn't about you.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> sad,
> 
> Trust me when I tell you, we've been down this road with - literally - dozens of guys.
> 
> ...


Exactly. When I talked to her yesterday it was the first time that her indecisiveness and her emotionless demeanor with me had no affect on me. Weeks ago it would have hurt me to listen to her, but I found myself feeling stronger and in my mind I KNOW that this has nothing to do with me and I feel great about that. So no, I think I am finally at a place where if she came up to me tomorrow and said "yeah I want a divorce" I would say "I don't agree with it but get me the papers and I will sign them for you" and I would not be destroyed over it....actually would feel relieved that a conclusion has come. 

I have done a lot to improve myself lately, down 31 pounds now and still going for example, got a new wardrobe, hair style and have started hanging out with friends ALOT more. I have addressed every "issue" she had with me except the "intimacy issues" which honestly I think are HER issues, not mine. I have no problem being intimate, she does.

All the people posting on here helping me have been great. That along with reading and thinking about who I am as a person have made me realize I don't deserve what happened to me at all. I deserve better and will someday receive better. Right now I am trying to re-learn how to be happy and love myself like I once did long ago when I was single and had a blast. Yeah I was lonely when I was single but I was not unhappy what so ever. That's really the key I think, learning to be comfortable in your own skin and love yourself. Once you get there everything else kinda just falls into place. So I will continue to work out, go out with friends and have fun with my hobbies. I am not religious but I am spiritual and I found a passage in the bible that I really like and wanted to share as it really makes me feel comfortable for some reason:

"To give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, and to guide us to the path of peace."

Luke 1:79


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah that's what I have been doing, losing weight, hanging out with friends etc. just focusing on myself. It has had no effect on her, I have spoken with her twice in the span of like almost 3 weeks.


If it happens at all, it's going to take a lot longer than that.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

> I have addressed every "issue" she had with me except the "intimacy issues" which honestly I think are HER issues, not mine.



Please tell me you didn't address these deficiencies with her.

Three weeks is very little time. This stuff takes months. She probably spent years disconnecting.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Please tell me you didn't address these deficiencies with her.
> 
> Three weeks is very little time. This stuff takes months. She probably spent years disconnecting.


Punch is right.

Sad, my wife and I are separated and it's going on 2 years in November.

She just renewed her lease on her apartment.

We inch closer all the time, but the pace is glacial in some areas.

AND... she says she wants it fixed


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

She spent years disconnecting.

But it is up to you to decide if she is willing to spend months or years fixing???

You know where your heart lies.

But do you really know where her heart lies?

HM


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Please tell me you didn't address these deficiencies with her.
> 
> Three weeks is very little time. This stuff takes months. She probably spent years disconnecting.



No, the only thing I did was to tell her that I recognize that some of these issues she has with me do indeed have some truth to them (the weight gain, the finances etc.). We talked when this all went down and all I said about the intimacy was that "I bet my weight gain has not helped with that either" when she was also saying that the intimacy issues are mostly her fault because of her self esteem problems. I didn't agree with any of the "absolutes" she said as from what I have read that is pretty common behavior when a spouse cheats or has an affair.

I understand it could very well take months to sort this out. However with this new job opp, I might not have it now unfortunately. I cant really pass up this job and stay here working on myself and the hope she comes around. Taking this job is an act of loving myself so I gotta do it.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> She spent years disconnecting.
> 
> But it is up to you to decide if she is willing to spend months or years fixing???
> 
> ...



This is what I am fighting with. If I don't get this job and I stay here. I am not sure if moving back in is the best bet at this point. I think I may get my own place, just stay separated and work on myself. However who the hell knows where her heart is. Even her friends don't understand her anymore. You are right, it will most likely be up to me to decide.

Honestly I am not sure if she is willing to spend months fixing. So far right at this moment she is not on board with even trying to fix anything. She is still decided IF she wants to try and fix things.

But I get stronger every day. I feel myself becoming more emotionless every day about her.


----------



## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Punch is right.
> 
> Sad, my wife and I are separated and it's going on 2 years in November.
> 
> ...



Two years separated... I don't understand how people can stay separated that long. Whens the point where you just say "ok time to move on"


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> No, the only thing I did was to tell her that I recognize that some of these issues she has with me do indeed have some truth to them (the weight gain, the finances etc.). We talked when this all went down and all I said about the intimacy was that "I bet my weight gain has not helped with that either" when she was also saying that the intimacy issues are mostly her fault because of her self esteem problems. I didn't agree with any of the "absolutes" she said as from what I have read that is pretty common behavior when a spouse cheats or has an affair.
> 
> I understand it could very well take months to sort this out. However with this new job opp, I might not have it now unfortunately. I cant really pass up this job and stay here working on myself and the hope she comes around. Taking this job is an act of loving myself so I gotta do it.


Yes. You do have to do it.

Her loss.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Two years separated... I don't understand how people can stay separated that long. Whens the point where you just say "ok time to move on"


We're seeing each other every other day. Our physical connection is as strong as ever.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Conrad said:


> We're seeing each other every other day. Our physical connection is as strong as ever.


Sadman

It is the goal that matters. How you get there is not what truly matters. It is if different for many couples.

That both people share the same goal and make it clear to each other is what counts.

I hope you find out if your wife shares the same goal as you....

HM64


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Sadman
> 
> It is the goal that matters. How you get there is not what truly matters. It is if different for many couples.
> 
> ...


Well considering she has told me she doesn't know if she wants to work on our marriage, I would think it is not her goal unfortunately. but maybe I don't know.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well considering she has told me she doesn't know if she wants to work on our marriage, I would think it is not her goal unfortunately. but maybe I don't know.


What was the temperature in your bedroom?


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Two years separated... I don't understand how people can stay separated that long. Whens the point where you just say "ok time to move on"


That is the thing, every situation is different, so there are no absolutes. For some one act of cheating is a die on the sword issue, while others may be able to forgive. I tried for a long to make my marriage work, but you can't do it by yourself. If both parties are willing to make it work, there are few things that can't be fixed. As you are obviously aware your wife has not made a commitment, just a hope. Hope is not a plan, so I think you need to live your life as you have planned and she has the opportunity to be part of it or not.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

VFW said:


> That is the thing, every situation is different, so there are absolutes. For some one act of cheating is a die on the sword issue, while others may be able to forgive. I tried for a long to make my marriage work, but you can't do it by yourself. If both parties are willing to make it work, there are few things that can't be fixed. As you are obviously aware your wife has not made a commitment, just a hope. Hope is not a plan, so I think you need to live your life as you have planned and she has the opportunity to be part of it or not.


VFW is spot on. Take the good job. Live your life. Make new friends. Find new hobbies. Time for you starts today!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> VFW is spot on. Take the good job. Live your life. Make new friends. Find new hobbies. Time for you starts today!


I agree with everyone on here. It's just so damn hard to say goodbye when there is even an ounce of hope in her. Its hard to say goodbye when you love someone with all your heart, even if they do not love you back the way you want.

I have decided that I am not going to move in with her now though. Not while she "just wants to see what happens" as there is no commitment there at all.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I just want to say as well, a big thank you to everyone who has offered their time and feelings to help me through this hard time. I am so happy that I found this site.

I was really doubting my hope in humanity when this all went down and you all have proven to me that there are good people out there that care and are willing to help. Its pretty awesome to know that there are awesome, good people out there still.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I agree with everyone on here. It's just so damn hard to say goodbye when there is even an ounce of hope in her. Its hard to say goodbye when you love someone with all your heart, even if they do not love you back the way you want.
> 
> I have decided that I am not going to move in with her now though. Not while she "just wants to see what happens" as there is no commitment there at all.


Nobody said it would be easy. My wife cheated on me when I had a six year old son and a three year old daughter. The pain is immeasurable. Let me tell you that hope is not your friend. Hope will only hurt you and push your wife further away. "Take it slow" and "Just see what happens" are things you should be telling her and not the other way around. 

Once you realize that you cannot fix your marriage, you will be at a better place. FIX YOURSELF! That is the only thing you have control over. Better your life with or with out her. 

You must be willing to lose the marriage for any chance at saving it. Now is the time for you to make the selfish decisions. Pack your sh*t and go make some money. Don't tell her a fricken thing and just do it.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Nobody said it would be easy. My wife cheated on me when I had a six year old son and a three year old daughter. The pain is immeasurable. Let me tell you that hope is not your friend. Hope will only hurt you and push your wife further away. "Take it slow" and "Just see what happens" are things you should be telling her and not the other way around.
> 
> Once you realize that you cannot fix your marriage, you will be at a better place. FIX YOURSELF! That is the only thing you have control over. Better your life with or with out her.
> 
> You must be willing to lose the marriage for any chance at saving it. Now is the time for you to make the selfish decisions. Pack your sh*t and go make some money. Don't tell her a fricken thing and just do it.


Oh jeez Gut, sorry to hear that....I cant imagine being in that situation, I bet nothing can hurt you now that you overcame that situation eh? 

Yeah, I think you are right. I think when we finally talk again...who knows when the hell that will be, I will tell her I am not moving in and that I want to take it slow and just see what happens. Then get my own place and keep working on myself and getting back to having fun again. This is of course if I do not end up getting this job. However so far it looks very promising and they want me to work for them pretty bad it seems.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Oh jeez Gut, sorry to hear that....I cant imagine being in that situation, I bet nothing can hurt you now that you overcame that situation eh?
> 
> Yeah, I think you are right. I think when we finally talk again...who knows when the hell that will be, I will tell her I am not moving in and that I want to take it slow and just see what happens. Then get my own place and keep working on myself and getting back to having fun again. This is of course if I do not end up getting this job. However so far it looks very promising and they want me to work for them pretty bad it seems.


If you follow through with what you just said, you will slowly grow more attractive to her. Do not be satisfied with love crumbs she throws your way. You deserve better and if you continue forward you will be better. True remorse and crying with snot bubbles then you take a listen. Don't fall for the "I miss you" "How are you" BS. The measure of a man is how strong you are when hit with adversity....and women like strong men. You can do this. Put yourself first.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> If you follow through with what you just said, you will slowly grow more attractive to her. Do not be satisfied with love crumbs she throws your way. You deserve better and if you continue forward you will be better. True remorse and crying with snot bubbles then you take a listen. Don't fall for the "I miss you" "How are you" BS. The measure of a man is how strong you are when hit with adversity....and women like strong men. You can do this. Put yourself first.



Thanks Gut. We will see what happened this next week when my Skype interviews start with this new job. I will update here if something happens.

Thanks again.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

I can't recommend enough that you need to address your health...try the Paleo diet for a month and see what kind of results you have. 

If you can afford it join a CrossFit Gym (or simply do some jogging & body weight workouts)

No matter what happens - Reconciliation or Divorce, you'll be much better off if you're fit & trim.

Reading Athol Kays MMSL and Mindful Attraction would be a positive step as well.

Good Luck.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Iver said:


> I can't recommend enough that you need to address your health...try the Paleo diet for a month and see what kind of results you have.
> 
> If you can afford it join a CrossFit Gym (or simply do some jogging & body weight workouts)
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yeah I have been working out about 2-3 days per week. I also walk about 1-3 miles per day. I eat baked fish and broccoli and drink whey protein and water. I did eat a burger today and our company lunch though haha. Gotta eat some fat once in a while. Going cold turkey never works.

But yeah I am slimming down. Its just going to take a while to lose 60 more pounds. I will get there.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Iver said:


> I can't recommend enough that you need to address your health...try the Paleo diet for a month and see what kind of results you have.
> 
> If you can afford it join a CrossFit Gym (or simply do some jogging & body weight workouts)
> 
> ...



Just purchased The Mindful Attraction Plan as well.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Another down day for me. I keep thinking about her and all the fun we had throughout the years and in the span of a few weeks she doesn't give a f*ck about me or our marriage. Still have some denial if ya cant tell haha. Its all just so unbelievable I doubt I will ever trust or get married again.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Another down day for me. I keep thinking about her and all the fun we had throughout the years and in the span of a few weeks she doesn't give a f*ck about me or our marriage.


Her feelings didn't change in a few weeks.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Her feelings didn't change in a few weeks.


I know that, what I am saying is its amazing how quick it goes down when they finally decide to open their mouths and communicate they are unhappy about something.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

from what I have read though, that's pretty common for women. They can be content with very little for a long time in a marriage until it finally boils over.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> from what I have read though, that's pretty common for women. They can be content with very little for a long time in a marriage until it finally boils over.


Don't confuse strategy with contentment.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> from what I have read though, that's pretty common for women. They can be content with very little for a long time in a marriage until it finally boils over.


I'm not thinking they're sitting there all content and then it suddenly boils over, I'm thinking that the unhappiness, resentment, frustration, etc.. gradually builds, and then there are some thoughts of leaving the marriage, and then as Conrad suggested, they decide they're probably going to get out so they start working on an exit strategy. Doesn't always include finding an affair partner first, but often times it does.


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## nishi_25 (Jun 30, 2013)

*Re: I know youre upset, but here is realistic suggestion...*



sadman79 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a new poster here. I need some advice for my situation with my wife. I am very sorry this is so long, I should have posted here much sooner. I fear I have screwed this up too much now and I need to give as much detail as possible for good advice.
> 
> ...


Your wife has been horrible to you from day one, she never aws even attracted to you, or loved you, she just married for the thrill of it. You dont deserve that, how can you love someone who doesnt love you back? Solution: DIVORCE HER. Dont let her take anything of yours, money, cars, house, etc, she doesnt deserve anything you gave her. If she wants you to go out, make her pay. Give her nothing, because thats what she gave you... nothing. Have your parents or friends, set you up with a beautiful girl (tip: many beautiful muslim/sikh/hindu/christian girls looking for marriage to good man will accept), marry a good girl who will cook, clean, give you children, and respect you, and NEVER dream of cheating. You deserve better. Go find your new love of your life.  Hope this helps! :smthumbup:

reasons for divorce: 
a woman was married before and she did not tell her husband
a woman marries man and he is impotent, and she finds out after marriage.
cruelty
a man's inability or refusal to support his wife
a wife's refusal to live with her husband or be with him.
if one of the spouses is unable to have conjugal relations
one spouse feels repulsion towards the other.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I'm not thinking they're sitting there all content and then it suddenly boils over, I'm thinking that the unhappiness, resentment, frustration, etc.. gradually builds, and then there are some thoughts of leaving the marriage, and then as Conrad suggested, they decide they're probably going to get out so they start working on an exit strategy. Doesn't always include finding an affair partner first, but often times it does.


Yeah, I'm guessing my wife has been lying her little ass off for years. She needs to get into an acting career because her contentment and happiness fooled everybody, our friends, our family, me. She deserves the golden globe award for this long ass performance.

I think I'm done with relationships.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

*Re: I know youre upset, but here is realistic suggestion...*



nishi_25 said:


> Your wife has been horrible to you from day one, she never aws even attracted to you, or loved you, she just married for the thrill of it. You dont deserve that, how can you love someone who doesnt love you back? Solution: DIVORCE HER. Dont let her take anything of yours, money, cars, house, etc, she doesnt deserve anything you gave her. If she wants you to go out, make her pay. Give her nothing, because thats what she gave you... nothing. Have your parents or friends, set you up with a beautiful girl (tip: many beautiful muslim/sikh/hindu/christian girls looking for marriage to good man will accept), marry a good girl who will cook, clean, give you children, and respect you, and NEVER dream of cheating. You deserve better. Go find your new love of your life.  Hope this helps! :smthumbup:
> 
> reasons for divorce:
> a woman was married before and she did not tell her husband
> ...


Thanks Nishi, I am starting to believe this more and more each day. I mean I do believe she is full of it by saying she was never attracted to me but if that is truly the case....then just wow...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah, I'm guessing my wife has been lying her little ass off for years. She needs to get into an acting career because her contentment and happiness fooled everybody, our friends, our family, me. She deserves the golden globe award for this long ass performance.
> 
> I think I'm done with relationships.


This is quite the overreaction, don't you think?

First learn to see through yourself. At that point, seeing through others becomes easy.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> This is quite the overreaction, don't you think?
> 
> First learn to see through yourself. At that point, seeing through others becomes easy.


What do you mean by "see through myself."


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> This is quite the overreaction, don't you think?
> 
> First learn to see through yourself. At that point, seeing through others becomes easy.


It just pisses me off to think that she acted like she was happy for years and years or even from the time we got married. If so then I don't think it is an overreaction.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> It just pisses me off to think that she acted like she was happy for years and years or even from the time we got married. If so then I don't think it is an overreaction.


So, it would be appropriate to let one person's deficiencies sour you on the entire human race?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Hope you all had a good 4th.

Mine was strange. I know my wife had to work overnight on the 4th so I texted her just saying "Happy 4th!" she eventually texted back with "you to Daniel" which is strange to me. She has never called me Daniel (the name my mom calls me when she is mad haha) in the 12 years I have known her. I noticed in each of our text conversation over the past month and half she uses my name all the time. Something most people don't do. Not sure what that's about but oh well.

I had fun, grilled with a couple friends, a friend came down from the twin cities to grill with us as well. I also had a co-worker call me out of the blue which was strange. a girl I work with but have never interacted with at all. I usually get calls or texts from my co-workers as I am a senior engineer and they may need help at all times of the day so they are able to contact us senior engineers for assistance. I thought it was work related. It wasn't. We just talked a bit, she was not flirty at all really, just talking about her dogs and her business she is trying to start up. The fact that she called me just to talk felt pretty good. After we got off the phone she texted me and said "feel free to call or text me if you wanna chat or meet up sometime. You seem like a cool guy" and gave me her number.

Is it pathetic that I would feel guilty about he possibility of hanging out with this woman while still married even if my wife has no interest in me? But then again, maybe this woman just likes me as a friend and wants to hang out plain and simple and I should be open to it.

I think I will text or call her this Saturday and see if she wants to meet up somewhere for a drink or something, maybe I can tell if she is interested in me which then unfortunately I will have to tell her I am married hah.

Hope every is having a good Friday!!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Hope you all had a good 4th.
> 
> Mine was strange. I know my wife had to work overnight on the 4th so I texted her just saying "Happy 4th!" she eventually texted back with "you to Daniel" which is strange to me. She has never called me Daniel (the name my mom calls me when she is mad haha) in the 12 years I have known her. I noticed in each of our text conversation over the past month and half she uses my name all the time. Something most people don't do. Not sure what that's about but oh well.
> 
> ...


She good looking?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> She good looking?


Yeah she is not bad looking at all. Not as good looking as my wife by any means but I know I cant just compare people like that or I will be disappointed. 

She is good looking though yes. A little bigger than my wife....however my wife is 105 pounds (and short) so kinda hard to beat that hah!

We did have a nice chat though.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah she is not bad looking at all. Not as good looking as my wife by any means but I know I cant just compare people like that or I will be disappointed.
> 
> She is good looking though yes. A little bigger than my wife....however my wife is 105 pounds (and short) so kinda hard to beat that hah!
> 
> We did have a nice chat though.


She start touching your arm and things like that?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> She start touching your arm and things like that?


No she just called me yesterday. We have not actually met up yet. After her text though I am seriously considering meeting up with her just to get out and meet some new people. I know deep down I am not ready for a relationship and I am still technically married. But it would be nice to meet someone new.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> No she just called me yesterday. We have not actually met up yet. After her text though I am seriously considering meeting up with her just to get out and meet some new people. I know deep down I am not ready for a relationship and I am still technically married. But it would be nice to meet someone new.


Do it.

Make sure the pictures get on Facebook.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do it.
> 
> Make sure the pictures get on Facebook.


Well doubt there will be pictures taken from going and having a drink and talking. Also my wife doesn't have Facebook so that wouldn't matter. I wouldn't do that anyways, even if my wife would see it, I doubt she would even care at this point, would probably just make her reinforce the divorce side of her.

I am an honorable man probably to a fault. Just having trouble not thinking about my wife still. I guess it has only been a little more than a month since this all went down. Who knows maybe spending time with another woman would help me to stop thinking about my wife as much.

Anyways, I'm getting my own phone today. My wife and I are on the same phone account so I am getting my own today and then I will text her in a few days and let her know she can cancel my line (the account is under her name). I called our apartment complex and let them know I will not be signing the lease again for our two bedroom.

So at this point I am just waiting to do my Skype interviews with this new job next week. I checked into some apartments in Lake Forest and boy do they like to charge fees. Gotta pay $50 app fee, $200 admin fee and then a $300 security deposit fee....all just when I apply. If I am not approved they refund only the security deposit so I'm out 250 dollars...most places there do this. Plus they also have to verify I make 3 times the amount of rent so they will need my offer letter. The job pays 88K the first year with the signing bonus so no worries there hah.

Everything goes well, I am leaving and pretty sure my marriage is over at that point. If I don't get the job well then I will get my own place and start life over I guess.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Set the date man come in you don't have to fvck just go out and go out and have fun. You were talking here how you have self esteem issues well shyte go on the damn date. Also I am seeing in your last posts a lot that I like you are doing good.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

CEL said:


> Set the date man come in you don't have to fvck just go out and go out and have fun. You were talking here how you have self esteem issues well shyte go on the damn date. Also I am seeing in your last posts a lot that I like you are doing good.


Other people have Facebook.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sad, I was very happy to read your post. I got a really good feeling from it for you.  You are making awesome progress, whether it seems like it to you or not.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Set the date man come in you don't have to fvck just go out and go out and have fun. You were talking here how you have self esteem issues well shyte go on the damn date. Also I am seeing in your last posts a lot that I like you are doing good.


Thanks CEL,

Yeah I am getting better each day. I still have moments of extreme sadness of missing her that happen every day (especially right when I wake up in the morning). But my I am starting to realize more and more that it is hopeless and I am starting to detach emotionally because of that feeling as well. It is just going to take time for me. I get really attached to people in general so this is not going to be a short ordeal.

I plan on texting her back tomorrow night to see if she wants to get a drink or something. I guess I have nothing to lose and do not feel nervous or anything so probably the best time to go have fun. I might be moving away so I don't feel pressured or anything.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your missing the point, being with another girl (just to talk shop or have a drink) raises your sex rank in your wifes mind...and that can be very powerful in fighting for your marriage.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Sad, I was very happy to read your post. I got a really good feeling from it for you.  You are making awesome progress, whether it seems like it to you or not.


Thanks 3X, yeah its hard for me to place where I am right now emotionally. Like I just posted, there are moments in each day still where I experience extreme sadness, just terrible downs. Then parts of the day I experience extreme highs. I really hope those go away or at least mellow out soon. Its really bad right in the morning which could be from dreaming I guess.

I'm trying whatever I can, I have read everything suggested to me at this point and it has all been helpful in some ways at least. Trying to hang out with the few friends I have left here (two moved away). I have also started reaching out on Facebook more and talking to old friends which has been pretty fun to see how their lives have gone over the 10 or so years its been since we have talked to each other.

I do think this experience has hardened me a bit however. I don't think I will ever give so much of myself to someone else again. I gave ALL of myself to my wife and in the process I lost my self respect and self love. Self esteem and everything was perfect so long as she loved me. Border line co-dependency no doubt which I know some is normal in a long term relationship but I most likely let too much of myself be swept away within her. Its still hard to imagine what life is going to be like without her, but I hope deep down in my heart that in 40 years I will look back and smile about it all. Sometimes things happen for a reason.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

the guy said:


> Your missing the point, being with another girl (just to talk shop or have a drink) raises your sex rank in your wifes mind...and that can be very powerful in fighting for your marriage.


No I get the point, trust me. However my wife would not find out by me posting anything on Facebook and I'm not taking pictures of me being out talking, having a drink with some girl I barely know (haha that would freak her out "hey let me take a picture of us"). Nor am I going to call or text my wife just to let her know I was out with another woman. It would actually have the opposite effect right now.

I know my wife (not as well as I thought obviously) but I think she would actually want me to find someone else at this point in time. She would be happy for me more than likely. That's how dis-attached she has become in my eyes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> No I get the point, trust me. However my wife would not find out by me posting anything on Facebook and I'm not taking pictures of me being out talking, having a drink with some girl I barely know (haha that would freak her out "hey let me take a picture of us"). Nor am I going to call or text my wife just to let her know I was out with another woman. It would actually have the opposite effect right now.
> 
> I know my wife (not as well as I thought obviously) but I think she would actually want me to find someone else at this point in time. She would be happy for me more than likely. That's how dis-attached she has become in my eyes.


Horses and water come to mind.

Your wife is "different" than the other waywards, I'm sure.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Horses and water come to mind.
> 
> Your wife is "different" than the other waywards, I'm sure.


not much I can do at this point. I have not been talking to her or anything for two weeks besides the short little text yesterday and the quick phone call last Sunday. She has made no attempt at contacting me so that says a lot.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> not much I can do at this point. I have not been talking to her or anything for two weeks besides the short little text yesterday and the quick phone call last Sunday. She has made no attempt at contacting me so that says a lot.


It actually doesn't tell you a thing.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It actually doesn't tell you a thing.


I guess that's is true but on the flip side I feel like the more time goes by where we don't speak at all or she doesn't show any initiative what so ever just means we are going to grow apart even more. Like I said, I am out of ideas at this point and have lost all hope in our marriage being fixed with both of us not talking or doing anything. I know at this point it really has nothing to do with me so I just gotta move on.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Haha this co-worker girl that wanted to go out tonight just asked me if I was married. I told her I was. She doesn't want to go out now. Understandable she was wanting more haha.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I guess that's is true but on the flip side I feel like the more time goes by where we don't speak at all or she doesn't show any initiative what so ever just means we are going to grow apart even more. Like I said, I am out of ideas at this point and have lost all hope in our marriage being fixed with both of us not talking or doing anything. I know at this point it really has nothing to do with me so I just gotta move on.


That last part is true.

The rest of it is hogwash.

For your own sanity, you need to remove your focus from her.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> That last part is true.
> 
> The rest of it is hogwash.
> 
> For your own sanity, you need to remove your focus from her.


yeah, I know you are right. It is just hard to remove her from my focus 100% of the time. I think today is just one of those days.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Haha this co-worker girl that wanted to go out tonight just asked me if I was married. I told her I was. She doesn't want to go out now. Understandable she was wanting more haha.


This is actually a plus as in she does not want to date a married man so that is AWESOME. And you know she wanted to DATE you so that is great for you self esteem. I would compliment her and tell her what her offer meant to you. Besides a friendship is not a bad thing to have just be careful.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I know my wife (not as well as I thought obviously) but I think she would actually want me to find someone else at this point in time. She would be happy for me more than likely. That's how dis-attached she has become in my eyes.


You having someone else, would take the onus off of her. It would then become a mutual decision, even if it were ex post facto. It just takes time to get past all of this and there is are no short cuts. We are actually doing better than most. Keep your head high cowboy.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well wish me luck. I called my wife today to see how she is doing since we have not seen or spoken to each other much in two weeks. She said she was about to call me as well to see if I wanted to talk. I told her I am not busy today much so she is coming by to talk tonight.

Later in the conversation I told her I missed her. She did not reply except with a "yeah...."

so pretty sure its over. Scared to have this talk now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well wish me luck. I called my wife today to see how she is doing since we have not seen or spoken to each other much in two weeks. She said she was about to call me as well to see if I wanted to talk. I told her I am not busy today much so she is coming by to talk tonight.
> 
> Later in the conversation I told her I missed her. She did not reply except with a "yeah...."
> 
> so pretty sure its over. Scared to have this talk now.


Why did you call?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Why did you call?


To see how she was doing. I don't have a lot of time here to stay silent with her and disconnected. Honestly I think the time apart has worsened the situation. It seems like it has disconnected her even more. Maybe not but for some people spending time together does help in reconciling the marriage.

Either way I guess I will be glad a conclusion has come. I'm sure I will be hurting pretty bad tonight and I'm nervous. I'm sure she is going to tell me its over and she really has no interest in working on our marriage. My response is just going to be "ok, I don't agree with it but if you get the paperwork ready, I will sign it. Also you will need to remove me from the lease and off the phone bill. Have a nice life" and then walk away. Not sure what else to say at that point really.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Keep the conversation short and brief. 

You cannot have a marriage of one. 

No begging. And if she is walking,,, you go have an awesome life!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Michelle,
> 
> So would you suggest divorcing her before leaving for this new job?


No, I would let her go and be strong about it. It seems she is stringing you along, and you're following. She probably feels guilty, but that will only make her dislike you more. Which will make her want to divorce you.

Walk away with dignity, chin up, and stay strong. Let the chips fall where they may. But if you really want to keep her, or at least remember you fondly, you need to respect yourself. Which means not letting her trample all over you like a doormat. Don't look for her, don't say nice things to her unless she makes efforts to deserve it, and at least act like you have your own interesting life with much to look forward to.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> To see how she was doing. I don't have a lot of time here to stay silent with her and disconnected. Honestly I think the time apart has worsened the situation. It seems like it has disconnected her even more. Maybe not but for some people spending time together does help in reconciling the marriage.
> 
> Either way I guess I will be glad a conclusion has come. I'm sure I will be hurting pretty bad tonight and I'm nervous. I'm sure she is going to tell me its over and she really has no interest in working on our marriage. My response is just going to be "ok, I don't agree with it but if you get the paperwork ready, I will sign it. Also you will need to remove me from the lease and off the phone bill. Have a nice life" and then walk away. Not sure what else to say at that point really.


For future reference, this is what you need to change. Your wife cheated, and you are hanging around waiting for her like a child for his mother. Women don't like needy men. it may be nice at first, but that will NOT last. 

Don't have to be a jerk. Just be more of a leader than the women. Leadership makes women feel secure. Neediness makes us feel insecure, and bored, it's actually selfish. Needy people have no idea what is going on with the other person because they are caught up in their own emotions. You should have realized your wife wasn't happy at some point long ago and Dealt with it early on. Once she disrespected you, you should have been willing to walk away, or at least act like it.

If she talks to you about divorce, tell her to prepare the paper work and you'll sign it. That's it. Good luck.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well its over, she stopped by just to give me paper work for the divorce. I sat there silent and just said "ok" she got emotional and started crying a couple times. I kept strong and did not cry or look sad.

She asked me if I was ok and I told her yes. I told her to leave the paperwork so I can look over it and fill out all the crap on it (holy crap they need to know a lot of information for some reason). She asked me if I would work with her on a irreconcilable differences divorce or if I am going to try and get more money or take everything from her. I told her again, I would sign the paperwork after looking through it.

I kinda just sat their silent the whole time. She said she really wanted to get this handled so both of us could move on....fvcking ****..

She said she wants to be on her own for a long time as she has never been on her own. (again bullshyte)

So I just sat there confident and completely ok with it. I feel good that it is finally over. This woman is not marriage material and not the person I thought I was married to, sucks but its true.

I wasn't needy in our marriage, I did lead most everything in our lives. I was not needy towards her at all, until this all went down of course.

What I have learned: You cannot get lazy in a marriage, I did. I let myself go and gained weight over 7 years. The big thing my wife mentioned was the romantic intimacy. However, I realize that it doesn't excuse what she did, just mentioning the one thing I learned from this relationship. I need to always work on myself regardless of my situation in life.

I feel better knowing it is finally over now and I can move on.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman
Good that you can move on. Your wife is full of crap. 

Lose weight do you are happy with yourself 

Now go find a real woman. 

And fill out that paperwork ASAP. 

You have a life to live.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm sure you are feeling lost and I'm sorry. I also feel confident you will look back on this as a good thing. You have your whole future ahead of you. Read MMSLP so you will be better prepared.

Good luck.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Sorry man. Here is the deal look over the stuff then sign. Then cut her off, no calls, no texts, no I love you, no helping her, no nothing you will NOT be friends. This is to help YOU. Keep posting we are still her for you.


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## Disneyme (Jan 7, 2013)

I am sorry to hear this. I too feel the same way. I not only found out my husband the I have been separated from for 2 years now, has a girlfriend and they are sleeping together. I thought I would never be able to get over that and it would be the end of me. I have been crying for days. I feel like I have the flu like I did the day he left and said he did not love me. I do not know what your religious stand is, but seeing how you waited for you wife I guess you believe in God. Do not let people tell you to move on. God does not like divorce. this web site rejoiceministries.org gave me hope. I have decided to Stand for my marriage even though he has someone else and been with someone else and I have to live with that for the rest of my life. Read the testimonies, and listen to the stop divorce things. It helped me a lot to feel love instead of anger.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

1) This has happened to me Three times. The first time my wife had an affair (it started with the emotions then got physical). The second time, I caught her in the act of sexting and I called the guy up (that stopped it). And now the third time (she admitted to me) two months ago that she liked a coworker. I knew she liked him because she wouldn't shut up about him. Luckily that "emotional affair" didn't last long because the guy is married with children and he didn't feel the same way about my wife. When she told him how she felt, he rejected her and that humiliation ended that relationship.


2) It's up to you to make the decision on what to do. But the only reason I'm STILL married is because I have two small children, my parents divorced when I was 12 and I know how it destroyed me. I couldn't do that to my children at 7 and 4 years old. So if I WASN'T a parent, I would have filled for divorce the day after she told me about her affair (3 months after it ended).

3) The moral is, "Once a cheater always a cheater". But truth be told, you'll ALWAYS be attracted to someone else. It's human nature to be attracted to a coworker. But you CAN'T act on it. I've been attracted to plenty of female coworkers, flirted with them, even touched some boobs and booty, but "I kept it in my pants". And I was very open about how I'm married and I "can't" do anything with them. They always found my honesty a turn on, because they knew I was attracted to them too, but things never got sexual. And yes, I even informed my wife of all my flirty coworkers. She used to come to my job to see the women first hand. That type of competition for me made my wife "step her game up" She started coming to my job dress to kill. Maybe you need to turn the tables on her.


It does help to be open about things like this. It's hard for some to understand how can telling your spouse that you're starting to love or like someone, be beneficial, but it does help keep things in the open. The two of you can walk on egg shells together. But like I said, I've had 3 instances of this emotional affair.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Elliott said:


> 1) This has happened to me Three times. The first time my wife had an affair (it started with the emotions then got physical). The second time, I caught her in the act of sexting and I called the guy up (that stopped it). And now the third time (she admitted to me) two months ago that she liked a coworker. I knew she liked him because she wouldn't shut up about him. Luckily that "emotional affair" didn't last long because the guy is married with children and he didn't feel the same way about my wife. When she told him how she felt, he rejected her and that humiliation ended that relationship.
> 
> 
> 2) It's up to you to make the decision on what to do. But the only reason I'm STILL married is because I have two small children, my parents divorced when I was 12 and I know how it destroyed me. I couldn't do that to my children at 7 and 4 years old. So if I WASN'T a parent, I would have filled for divorce the day after she told me about her affair (3 months after it ended).
> ...



At this point it is over. There is no turning the tables on her. She has made up her mind once and for all. She said she wants to be alone for a while and live on her own which she never has before. That is more than likely bullshyt but whatever. It is over, the papers are sitting in my room ready to be filled out. I'm not going to beg her to stay with me and work things out. Nothing more I can do at this point except move on in my own life. Part of me is excited at this next chapter, part of me is sad and lonely and doesn't think I will meet anyone ever again. I'm sure that second half will go away a little bit each day.

I am sick of waiting and fighting for her and am glad in a way that it is over. I have done everything I can think of with her. I was respectful to her more than I should have been even. I took the high road during all this and I can honestly say everything I did, I did because I wanted to and felt it was the right thing to do at the time. I have no regrets really except that I didn't kick her out of our place when this first went down. 

I want to thank everyone on here for helping me through this. Its a bummer her and I were not able to work things out. 12 years of emotions and dreams down the drain....at least that's how it feels right now.


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## Disneyme (Jan 7, 2013)

I've been waiting 2 years. Just now I started my stand for my marriage. I am praying. I too thought things would get better. I dated, flirted, and looked for someone else. That was going against my stand. In the mean time he found someone else the devil sent him from another state right into his work place. i have to believe this is not what God wants. There are many restored stories and I am praying I can be one. I know I will be totally different if he comes back, but God will make us the right person for one another. 
rejoiceministries.org


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Elliott said:


> But truth be told, you'll ALWAYS be attracted to someone else. It's human nature to be attracted to a coworker. But you CAN'T act on it. I've been attracted to plenty of female coworkers, flirted with them, even touched some boobs and booty, but "I kept it in my pants". And I was very open about how I'm married and I "can't" do anything with them.


Truth be told: You DID do something with them. As you describe it, you did plenty. And it appears that you see nothing wrong with doing it since you "kept it in your pants".


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Disneyme said:


> I've been waiting 2 years. Just now I started my stand for my marriage. I am praying. I too thought things would get better. I dated, flirted, and looked for someone else. That was going against my stand. In the mean time he found someone else the devil sent him from another state right into his work place. i have to believe this is not what God wants. There are many restored stories and I am praying I can be one. I know I will be totally different if he comes back, but God will make us the right person for one another.
> rejoiceministries.org



So he gave you divorce papers? You just ignored them? My wife just gave me divorce papers and wants me to get them completed as soon as possible. I am not going to tell her I am not signing them because I believe God wants our marriage to work. I also don't believe in divorce but she is not incredibly religious so that will most likely just irritate her or make her think I am a crazy. Also, I may be moving out of the state for this new job. I do not want to wait around for years in divorce limbo with her while she dates other people and moves on with her life.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Even if I told her "I am not signing these papers, I am not giving up on our marriage" im sure that would just push her away even more.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Even if I told her "I am not signing these papers, I am not giving up on our marriage" im sure that would just push her away even more.


Why stay married to a person that doesn't want to be married to you?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Why stay married to a person that doesn't want to be married to you?


Thanks Lenzi, exactly. Doing that would cause too much pain on myself. Hell I don't even like the idea of being in the same town as her right now just in the off chance I run into her with another guy or hear about stuff through our mutual friends.

It hurts, but there are no shortcuts to healing. It is a natural long process that may very well take me the better part of a couple years to heal fully from this. Today is day one for me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

The wife just texted me saying "I wish we worked on things a long time ago.. I will always care for you. For me, the worst part of it is losing my best friend for the past 12 years. Just wanted you to know that. Thank you for respecting my wishes though and being civil about all this."

Should I even reply to that crap?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> The wife just texted me saying "I wish we worked on things a long time ago.. I will always care for you. For me, the worst part of it is losing my best friend for the past 12 years. Just wanted you to know that. Thank you for respecting my wishes though and being civil about all this."
> 
> Should I even reply to that crap?


"I really don't like where this conversation is heading"


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I have not managed to read all the posts since I have just come back on. 

May I ask you a few questions. 

Why dont you have any kids.

This 'other' who your wife is perhaps seeing. What kind of a person is he. Is he married, the same age, does he have kids etc.

i think I can understand exactly where youre coming from and dont believe what the posters are telling you about your wife. The only way forward really is for her to somehow 'forget' him. It has nothing to do with you, meaning you have done nothing wrong. I would suggest you get her to come on here and talk to us. 

This has happened before with a good outcome. I dont think therapy or anything else will help. If she speaks here to other people meaning other women with similar problems and I am sure there are many here, they are the best able to tell her how to solve them. 

Is it very hard to forget someone, it is not easy for her and therefore dont be too hard on her. Be happy she is still faithful to you. Many people go through such a phase and get out of it which I am sure she will. 

In the meantime dont do anything to upset her. Dont follow that kind of advice on here and think again about children. I wish you well.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

accept said:


> I have not managed to read all the posts since I have just come back on.
> 
> May I ask you a few questions.
> 
> ...


Well we liked our free time mostly is why we didn't have kids. I don't know much about this other guy. Except that he is more physically fit. He is a recovering drug and alcohol addict. Is not married and has no kids. My wife still maintains nothing ever happened physically between them at all and that she does not love him. He was more of a catalyst that made her look at her life in general and what she actually wanted and thought about me. Something like that...

Anyways as far as this being a phase, its a pretty final phase. She brought me the paperwork and is happy that I am respecting her wishes to sign it. I'm pretty sure she wont come out of that phase haha but ya never know. Either way I will be filling out the paperwork over the next week and having an attorney take a look at it to double check it.

I did not reply to her last text as there is no point to anything with her anymore.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> The wife just texted me saying "I wish we worked on things a long time ago.. I will always care for you. For me, the worst part of it is losing my best friend for the past 12 years. Just wanted you to know that. Thank you for respecting my wishes though and being civil about all this."
> 
> Should I even reply to that crap?


I know you already decided to not respond but u want to add some stuff. This is no longer about her thus is all you. So when she calls or texts and you are wondering of you should answer ask yourself would I cut my face? 

She wants to break your heart but still be friends. This is bs you are worth more than that. You being friends means SHE gets what she wants and you get to be hurt. Don't feed the beast. 

To heal you need to move on every day you don't talk or text her is a day if healing every time you respond you lose that healing. We got your back when you are feeling weak just post.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks for your reply.

BTW is she also reading all these posts.

If things are already final that means I am too late. This 'other' doesnt seem to be much of a 'catch' and one wonders what your wife could see in him. Being fit is not everything.

If it is really final and I am not that sure its best not to make it 'messy' at all. A clean break is always the best and staying friends although not perhaps 'good' ones.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

accept said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> BTW is she also reading all these posts.
> 
> ...


No she is not reading these posts. No this other guy is not a catch. But unfortunately my wife is so caught up in the butterflies in her stomach, romantic movie-like intimacy that she is now gone in the head. She acts and talks like a completely different person. I will not remain friends with her at all. Not after what she has done to me, I just cant do that. She messed up and minimalized me to help herself deal with guilt and to justify her fantasy life and in the process ruined our marriage and hurt me pretty deep.


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## stuck in los angeles (Feb 15, 2013)

Sadman, sorry to hear about this situation of yours. I didn't have the time today to read through all the pages. Personally, I would take that job and move. A brand new fresh start would probably do you well. I would get the divorce done first though. Good luck to you.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Honestly, the best thing to happen to you is being divorced to this woman. She has told you that you don't do anything for her in a sexual nature, never attracted to you, never had those butterflies for you, in other words you were nothing except another person living there. I don't know how you could even want to speak to her after that. She did nothing but give you one lie after another. No matter how hard you try, you cannot force someone to love you and have feelings for you if there not there. her total dishonesty is truly low and she also screwed her own life up as well. Who would want to be with someone for 12 years if there is no love or feelings? Would you?

This new job your getting is going to be the best thing to happen to you. You get a chance to start over in a new city and meet new people and get away from a poisonous woman. You were in a no win situation with her. Yes. She is at big time fault for stringing you along for that length of time but if someone doesn't love you or has those feeling, you can jump through hoops and barrels till your blue in the face but that won't do any good. Either it's there or it isn't.


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## ohbrother (Jan 10, 2012)

Sadman, I really feel for you and what you've gone through.

Would strongly suggest that you block her from texting and emailing you. 

Rip off the bandaid.....it will get better the busier you are so do whatever you need to do to fill the time. Have you thought about volunteering? Also, Louise Hay writes great books on gratitude and how faking it in the beginning can lead to authentic gratitude and a more positive, happy life.

Take care!


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## ohbrother (Jan 10, 2012)

Forgot to add - her texting you and calling you to discuss how she feels about all of this are immature games. She is constantly testing you to get a reaction out of you to feel good about herself. Stop reacting and she'll get the picture.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah pretty sad today. Its all sinking in and still can't believe this all happened. I got a new phone yesterday and changed my address with the post office. 

She texted me last night and said she will be dropping some of my stuff off at my friends where I am living today. I wont be there at that time but my friend will be to get it all.

I'm trying to be strong but the last couple days it is really starting to sink in that this is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it. I find myself desperately thinking of joining a dating site to try and find someone else but I know it is just trying to use someone to fill a hole that I need to fill myself somehow.

I am having those thoughts again that I will never meet someone and that I will see my wife with another man etc.

I am also a little bit excited deep down about what this next chapter of my life will be but I don't have a lot of hope for it right now in my current situation. Its easy to say things will get better when they are this bad, the question I ask myself is will they get better than when we were married and happy (she said she was happy but who knows).

its really like losing someone you love.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

My emotions are bouncing up and down much more these past two days. I find encouragement helps calm them down a bit for a little while but then start jumping all over the place from "oh my god I want my wife back I need to beg" to "fvck her, she shattered my life and was acting like she loved me for years what a fake piece of shyt"

I know that I will keep moving on in life and I just hope I can find a woman as cool as my wife was (we had a ton in common and our personalities were so similar) that actually IS into me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

6301 said:


> Honestly, the best thing to happen to you is being divorced to this woman. She has told you that you don't do anything for her in a sexual nature, never attracted to you, never had those butterflies for you, in other words you were nothing except another person living there. I don't know how you could even want to speak to her after that. She did nothing but give you one lie after another. No matter how hard you try, you cannot force someone to love you and have feelings for you if there not there. her total dishonesty is truly low and she also screwed her own life up as well. Who would want to be with someone for 12 years if there is no love or feelings? Would you?
> 
> This new job your getting is going to be the best thing to happen to you. You get a chance to start over in a new city and meet new people and get away from a poisonous woman. You were in a no win situation with her. Yes. She is at big time fault for stringing you along for that length of time but if someone doesn't love you or has those feeling, you can jump through hoops and barrels till your blue in the face but that won't do any good. Either it's there or it isn't.


Thanks  Yeah its so unbelievable that could have faked it for years and years. I still don't believe it as there were times we shared that were very loving. But she could have been faking it I guess. I just cant believe I was fooled for year and years and wasted a great many years of my life with her. I am not sure how to deal with that part of my emotions right now.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ohbrother said:


> Sadman, I really feel for you and what you've gone through.
> 
> Would strongly suggest that you block her from texting and emailing you.
> 
> ...


Thanks, she does not have my email now. She has my new phone simply because we have to be able to contact each other until the divorce is final but after that I may just block her on my phone so she cannot contact me at all. Or change the number again.

I have tried volunteering. I went through the interview process and shots to spend time with children at the children's hospital that have cancer or life threatening illnesses. I have only gone to one session so far and played a video game with a little kid who has cancer. We laughed together a little. I have to get another shot I guess to do more volunteering there however. Kind of depressing volunteering though. I will definitely check into Louise Hay.

Thanks!


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## zappy (Jun 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah pretty sad today. Its all sinking in and still can't believe this all happened. I got a new phone yesterday and changed my address with the post office.
> 
> She texted me last night and said she will be dropping some of my stuff off at my friends where I am living today. I wont be there at that time but my friend will be to get it all.
> 
> ...


I can't believe two different people (you and I) can have the exact same feelings and thought process.

Sadman - I ask myself this question without fail every second that, would I be able to find another woman as cool as my wife was or would I be compatible with someone else or would I be ever happy with anyone else as I was with my wife.

She used to love me so much that she would sit right outside the restroom door of our house and wait for me to get out.

I felt so comfortable with her in every aspect of life. But,

Then she changed for ever.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

zappy said:


> I can't believe two different people (you and I) can have the exact same feelings and thought process.
> 
> Sadman - I ask myself this question without fail every second that, would I be able to find another woman as cool as my wife was or would I be compatible with someone else or would I be ever happy with anyone else as I was with my wife.
> 
> ...


Thanks Zappy, yeah that's how we were as well. She loved me so much at times, just seems impossible that she was "acting" but alas...

Did you ever meet someone new?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Today is just agony. I have never experienced this kind of up and down before ever. One minute I am crushed, the next minute I am hopeful and somewhat happy. Got a call from the new job opp, she told me I am still their top choice and they want to continue with me this Thursday so I am excited for that. I am going to be so depressed if I don't get this job. The thought of running away and starting fresh sounds pretty good right now. If I stay here it is going to be rough as everything here reminds me of her.


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## zappy (Jun 7, 2013)

Sadman - I'm going to pray for you to get this job so you could star fresh and to answer your question No, I haven't started looking out for anyone. The reason is every other girl I see, it reminds me of Deepti, no matter how pretty a woman is, I still see my wife in her. Therefore not for now but I'll start looking soon once I am completely over her and I don't know when is that going to happen.

My intestines and veins were intertwined with her and the the way she ripped my heart, it will take time before I'll move on.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well just great...so my wife just texts me:

"when will you be home today?"
"I would like to talk to you if that's ok"

I told her I get off at 6:30 same as always. She said "ok I will stop by when you get home"

I asked her why and what does she need to talk to me about at this point.

She said the following:

"To be honest, it was just an excuse to see u. I feel like holding you & crying. I know it's ****ty & a bad idea.. But I'm a broken human being too, as much as u don't believe it, I feel destroyed. A lot of it is self-detruction & I know that. I'm just rly fked up."

Then 15 minutes later:

"I just can't stop crying & while I'm like this, u are the only one I want to see. I can't explain it..I was so sure about my decision & now im just fked up."

I responded back with: "I don't want a divorce and I don't think you do either deep down. Do you want to talk about our marriage tonight?"

She responded quickly with "Yes I want to only if you are ok with it."

I told her I will see her later then.

I know this is a bad idea right off the bat. She will come over get a load off then leave and I will still have the divorce papers staring me in the face.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

It was a bad idea because you were finally being strong and as soon as she showed signs of remorse you crumbled.

I'll tell you right now what's going to happen.

The SAME freaking thing that happened last time.

She'll be sorry but she just isn't feeling it and she was 'having a weak moment and nothing's changed. 

You continue to be your own worst enemy.

Break the cycle. It's bad for your continued emotional healing and obliterates any chance however slim that this thing might turn around.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> It was a bad idea because you were finally being strong and as soon as she showed signs of remorse you crumbled.
> 
> I'll tell you right now what's going to happen.
> 
> ...


Is there no possibility that she will change her mind? People have changed their minds before on this kind of thing. Trust me when I say I am very protected right now. I have little to no hope for this meeting and I feel its going to go down the same way you just explained it. However, this time I know before hand and I am more interested in what she wants to say because at this point I don't have much to say. If she comes over and is not apologizing or actually telling me she made a mistake and wants to work on things now, I will tell her to leave. I am done putting myself through the ringer. This is basically the last chance I am giving her before I am out completely. 

So you are saying that I should text her back and tell her its a bad idea. This is what she wanted etc. and see what happens? What if this is truly her coming around? I mean people do reconcile their marriages, surely this could end up the same? I know its a small hope but if I flatten that hope then there is no hope at all.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Is there no possibility that she will change her mind? People have changed their minds before on this kind of thing. Trust me when I say I am very protected right now. I have little to no hope for this meeting and I feel its going to go down the same way you just explained it. However, this time I know before hand and I am more interested in what she wants to say because at this point I don't have much to say. If she comes over and is not apologizing or actually telling me she made a mistake and wants to work on things now, I will tell her to leave. I am done putting myself through the ringer. This is basically the last chance I am giving her before I am out completely.
> 
> So you are saying that I should text her back and tell her its a bad idea. This is what she wanted etc. and see what happens? What if this is truly her coming around? I mean people do reconcile their marriages, surely this could end up the same? I know its a small hope but if I flatten that hope then there is no hope at all.


BAD IDEA!! Tell her too bad, fvck off. Would you REALLY want this woman back?? You are asking for the same exact thing to happen six months down the road. Dont do it, tell her no.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Dude. I know it would have been impossible for you to say no to her, but when you look back at tonight 6 months from now, I predict you will regret this decision. More pain on the horizon. Stop hurting yourself and start getting better.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Is there no possibility that she will change her mind? People have changed their minds before on this kind of thing. Trust me when I say I am very protected right now. I have little to no hope for this meeting and I feel its going to go down the same way you just explained it. However, this time I know before hand and I am more interested in what she wants to say because at this point I don't have much to say. If she comes over and is not apologizing or actually telling me she made a mistake and wants to work on things now, I will tell her to leave. I am done putting myself through the ringer. This is basically the last chance I am giving her before I am out completely.
> 
> So you are saying that I should text her back and tell her its a bad idea. This is what she wanted etc. and see what happens? What if this is truly her coming around? I mean people do reconcile their marriages, surely this could end up the same? I know its a small hope but if I flatten that hope then there is no hope at all.



You have nothing to lose by talking about it you are only one day out from the divorce so the detachment has not even started. Give it a shot and let us pick it over for gaps just be honest with her and with us. We can be the cynical pessimistic bastards so you don't have to be  So good luck and let us know. My hopes are with ya :smthumbup:


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> Dude. I know it would have been impossible for you to say no to her, but when you look back at tonight 6 months from now, I predict you will regret this decision. More pain on the horizon. Stop hurting yourself and start getting better.


Thanks BK, yes it was near to impossible to say no to this. However, I know we are not going to reconcile, I just want to see what she has to say. If she actually does want to reconcile which I highly doubt I would have some serious questions for her because I will not go through this again. I know we are finished at this point, I am more curious since she seems so incredibly confused and almost like she wants to get back together more so than ever before.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Since you already told her to come over, then you might as well follow through.

Don't be weak, clingy, emotional, and don't ask her questions or tell her you really want to work on things.

Just listen to what she has to say and if she's leaning towards wanting to give things another chance tell her you'll consider it and you'll get back to her.

Do not get physical with her, not even a kiss. Stay cool and detached the entire time.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> You have nothing to lose by talking about it you are only one day out from the divorce so the detachment has not even started. Give it a shot and let us pick it over for gaps just be honest with her and with us. We can be the cynical pessimistic bastards so you don't have to be  So good luck and let us know. My hopes are with ya :smthumbup:


Thanks CEL, I still have a sliver of hope but something inside me just feels like this will be the last time we see each other. I cant do this dance with her. If she wants to reconcile and comes over and is truly sorry about everything and says she wants to commit and go to marriage counseling I will listen to her. If she wants to come over and just hold me....no way in hell. It might make her feel better but after she leaves I still have the divorce papers staring me in the face.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks CEL, I still have a sliver of hope but something inside me just feels like this will be the last time we see each other. I cant do this dance with her. If she wants to reconcile and comes over and is truly sorry about everything and says she wants to commit and go to marriage counseling I will listen to her. If she wants to come over and just hold me....no way in hell. It might make her feel better but after she leaves I still have the divorce papers staring me in the face.


That is right place to be you are doing great.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It seems like if she wanted to stop the divorce, she would have asked you to come home.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks BK, yes it was near to impossible to say no to this.


That's very unfortunate. Despite some signs that you are coping well, you need to get to the place where it's possible to say no to her. 



sadman79 said:


> However, I know we are not going to reconcile


No you don't, you're hoping you are going to reconcile. You can lie to yourself but not to us. 



sadman79 said:


> I just want to see what she has to say.


Of course you do. 



sadman79 said:


> If she actually does want to reconcile which I highly doubt


See, I told you that you were hoping she's going to want to reconcile. You doubt it but you're hoping that's what she's going to say. I can't blame you but as I said earlier you are shooting yourself in the foot- yet again by letting her be the puppetmaster who pulls the strings and watches you jump and then she quickly remembers that a puppet gets boring FAST.



sadman79 said:


> I would have some serious questions for her


STOP ASKING HER QUESTIONS. 

I really don't think you're that thick, it's the emotions messing with your head. Did I mention that you are not the one to be asking questions here because 1) it gives her all the power and 2) her answers are meaningless



sadman79 said:


> because I will not go through this again.


Yes you will. You sir, are on a merry-go-round of your own making. It's time to get off. 



sadman79 said:


> I know we are finished at this point


No you don't, you are hoping she will want to reconcile. You continue to give her all the power, all the decisionmaking, and you are the puppet. And you will be the puppet until and unless you back off and stop playing her game. 



sadman79 said:


> since she seems so incredibly confused


She's waffling a bit, probably because she's a bit horny, a bit scared, a bit lonely, nothing more. It's going to pass, rather quickly and you'll be back to square one. With more damage done and you asking everyone if you've totally messed up.



sadman79 said:


> and almost like she wants to get back together more so than ever before.


That's you hoping and looking for any possible signs that your nightmare will end. It will end but not the way you want it to right now, and it's going to take awhile especially given that you cannot control your emotions and urges right now.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Sorry tonights no good. Got plans with the fellows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Sorry tonights no good. Got plans with the fellows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. 

If it's not too late he should call her back and tell her he forgot he made plans with the guys and lets do it another time WITHOUT actually suggesting another specific time.

But I doubt he can do it, he's eagerly anticipating the visit. 

It's not going to end well.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

She wants a friend right now. Do you want to be her friend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Sounds like a free ride on the emotional pain train.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

So she came over last night. She came into the room I was in. I walked over and sat down on the bed. She came over and sat down and started crying and then went to hug me. I grabbed the divorce papers and told her I would love to hold her and console her but these damned papers just seem to be in the way of things.

I told her if she rips them up then maybe I will console/hug/cuddle her. She just stared for a while and started crying again very hard. I sat there emotionless the entire time just holding the papers.

She said she was so sure of her decision to divorce but then today everything in her world just felt completely off and wrong. She was packing up some of my stuff to bring over and she said she just lost it. She tried to watch a movie to calm down but every movie reminded her of me. She said she couldn't make herself pack all my stuff, she just couldn't bring it over.

I asked her what's it going to be, me or this and I held up the divorce papers again. I said if you don't know then maybe it was a bad idea for you to come over here at all.

She just kinda stared at me and started crying again saying she doesn't know what she is doing there and that she doesn't know if she wants a divorce anymore and doesn't want to fill out the paperwork now.

She said she wants to talk again this upcoming weekend since she will be alone again for the next 3-4 days to think about stuff. I told her I believe it is pointless at this point. It's either there or it isn't, you want to work on it or you don't.

At this point though I am so emotionally numb so I tell her fine, we can talk next weekend. 

She was incredibly devastated.....it seems very strange to me and honestly I am more concerned for her than about our marriage. She looked TERRIBLE...she even told me that, that day was the first day she had suicidal thoughts. Im confused....usually isn't the person being broken up with supposed to be devastated? Why is she this devastated to the point of suicidal thoughts????

I looked at her and asked her if she is serious and I told her she better be fvcking kidding. I asked her if she is going to do anything crazy and she shook her head no. I made her promise.

As we were walking out she turned to me and grabbed me and put her head on my chest. She looked up and said "I'm so sorry for everything."
I told her I forgive her (mainly because I am concerned about her at this point killing herself).

She walked out. I felt fine. I did however call her mother and let her know that she should call her daughter because she is not doing too well right now. I didn't mention the suicidal thoughts but just told her mom that she did not seem ok to me at all.

Does anyone have any idea as to why she would be more emotionally devastated than me in this situation?? I am starting to think something actually happened to her mind at this point.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> So she came over last night. She came into the room I was in. I walked over and sat down on the bed. She came over and sat down and started crying and then went to hug me. I grabbed the divorce papers and told her I would love to hold her and console her but these damned papers just seem to be in the way of things.
> 
> I told her if she rips them up then maybe I will console/hug/cuddle her. She just stared for a while and started crying again very hard. I sat there emotionless the entire time just holding the papers.
> 
> ...


She's relieving her guilt.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman,

Stop calling people.

Stop fixing.

Give her what she says she wants.

And, no more "I don't knows"


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Just like we said.

She came over and dumped on you.

Now she's gone and probably feels better.

Next time....YOU got plans.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> She's relieving her guilt.


Of course she is....but like...man...she is REALLY devastated...suicidal thoughts???

I don't even know what to think at this point except that there is no way in the nine hells I can take this person back. It hurts me to say that but after last night...holy crap she is really broken. Which makes no sense to me because this is what she CHOSE to do...

I mean usually you divorce or break up with someone because you believe your life will be better without them and yeah going through with it might be depressing but I wouldn't think to the point where the person initiating the break up would get this depressed.

I was strong though, I did not console her, did not cuddle her, did not kiss her. I sat there disconnected and emotionless. Hell I even told a couple jokes (which she did laugh at).


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Just like we said.
> 
> She came over and dumped on you.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree but man, I am concerned now that she might do something crazy.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Sounds like borderline personality behavior to me. The whole I hate you, don't leave me or I will kill myself. I've felt with it many times with my mother. She is a very sick woman and there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. You can't fix crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

She's not going to do anything crazy. You stopped--well you toned down--your pining and begging for her, and she missed the drama and attention. Now she's reeling you in for yet another round, and you're happy to come running. 

Tell her you're not interested in talking this weekend.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

She is trying to make you her emotional hostage. watch out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Ms. GP said:


> Sounds like borderline personality behavior to me. The whole I hate you, don't leave me or I will kill myself. I've felt with it many times with my mother. She is a very sick woman and there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. You can't fix crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I mean our marriage issues aside I am actually concerned that she is going crazy or something.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Don't forget she fired you. she can look elsewhere for emotional support.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman

She is using you.

Let her feel what it will be like not to have you in her life.

And enjoy the peace for a change.

HM


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> Sadman
> 
> She is using you.
> 
> ...


Perhaps she can talk to some other men where she can visualize herself having children with them.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Sadman
> 
> She is using you.
> 
> ...


Yeah this upcoming weekend I may tell her I have plans. I might be flying to Chicago for all I know for this new job. I am still going to fill out the divorce papers as well even though she said she doesn't want me to anymore.

I just cant go through this anymore with her. I am worried about her but I just cant do this anymore. I am so numb right now, I cant feel anything, I feel dead.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Perhaps she can talk to some other men where she can visualize herself having children with them.


Ouch! I forgot about that. Reality check. Remember it every time she comes blubbering. Focus on you!


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Sadman I'm going to bow out of your thread because you refuse to listen to some of the best advice I've ever seen on this board from several experienced posters and I'm including myself in that group. The last dozen or so posts sum it up perfectly. She dumped you and you keep running back for more, only to be dumped yet again, and the cycle will perpetuate probably until she tires of the game and has relieved enough of her own guilt that she can move on with her life. She's not concerned about you, that's obvious to everyone, except..well.. you.

I've got nothing else to add to what I've already suggested and even if I did it would be pointless because it falls on deaf ears.

Good luck man, I hope you find a way to work things out to your satisfaction one way or another.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

lenzi said:


> Sadman I'm going to bow out of your thread because you refuse to listen to some of the best advice I've ever seen on this board from several experienced posters and I'm including myself in that group. The last dozen or so posts sum it up perfectly. She dumped you and you keep running back for more, only to be dumped yet again, and the cycle will perpetuate probably until she tires of the game and has relieved enough of her own guilt that she can move on with her life. She's not concerned about you, that's obvious to everyone, except..well.. you.
> 
> I've got nothing else to add to what I've already suggested and even if I did it would be pointless because it falls on deaf ears.
> 
> Good luck man, I hope you find a way to work things out to your satisfaction one way or another.


OP's first post was less than a month ago. Give the guy some slack, geez. 

When your world is torn upside down, it can take more than 20 days to rebuild it and get to the point where you can accept advice at all, let alone from anonymous folks on an internet message board!


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

I think you are being a little tough Lenzi. Everyone's journey is different and some people are sicker than others. I think he deserves our continued support. It takes what it takes man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Sadman I'm going to bow out of your thread because you refuse to listen to some of the best advice I've ever seen on this board from several experienced posters and I'm including myself in that group. The last dozen or so posts sum it up perfectly. She dumped you and you keep running back for more, only to be dumped yet again, and the cycle will perpetuate probably until she tires of the game and has relieved enough of her own guilt that she can move on with her life. She's not concerned about you, that's obvious to everyone, except..well.. you.
> 
> I've got nothing else to add to what I've already suggested and even if I did it would be pointless because it falls on deaf ears.
> 
> Good luck man, I hope you find a way to work things out to your satisfaction one way or another.



I understand Lenzi. Thanks for your advice. I'm sorry if it feels like I am ignoring advice, I really take it all to heart unless it just goes against who I am as a person. I am not going to lie, I am still confused, still have some denial and emotionally I am completely numb right now which is a horrible feeling. One thing I know from past experience with family and friends is that is is very easy to give advice about something when you have gone through it but much much harder to put it into practice when you have never gone through it and are right in the middle of it. I am trying to do my best and I think I am doing ok right now.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

In the fear of having you all come toy house and steal my tea. I think you did GREAT here it is you spent years with this person yes she has put you through the ringer for a while now but you still had some good years. You are only 1 DAY out from getting the papers the real detachment has not even started yet. If there is a time to be talking to her THIS would be it. Now you were strong and resolute and I think you handled it great.

The suicidal thought could be nothing or she could do it. Where would any of you stand? And yeah I have read your threads many of you still cared for the ex after and if she was in the hospital would go see her or take care if her. So yeah 90% she is just making noise the other 10 is she could do it. You don't screw with your loved ones lives. Again I think you handled it right. 

Meet up this weekend and have the same approach like I s said if you are going to have these discussions better now then later when you have some real detachment to lose. 

Good job Sandman


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> In the fear of having you all come toy house and steal my tea. I think you did GREAT here it is you spent years with this person yes she has put you through the ringer for a while now but you still had some good years. You are only 1 DAY out from getting the papers the real detachment has not even started yet. If there is a time to be talking to her THIS would be it. Now you were strong and resolute and I think you handled it great.
> 
> The suicidal thought could be nothing or she could do it. Where would any of you stand? And yeah I have read your threads many of you still cared for the ex after and if she was in the hospital would go see her or take care if her. So yeah 90% she is just making noise the other 10 is she could do it. You don't screw with your loved ones lives. Again I think you handled it right.
> 
> ...


Thanks CEL!!

I am doing my best. I feel my heart closing off to her lately. It has changed from me pining over wanting her to (especially after yesterday) more concern that she will be ok without me (even though this was her choice.....). 

I still love her but I feel like things are coming to a close emotionally for me finally and I cant control it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks CEL!!
> 
> I am doing my best. I feel my heart closing off to her lately. It has changed from me pining over wanting her to (especially after yesterday) more concern that she will be ok without me (even though this was her choice.....).
> 
> I still love her but I feel like things are coming to a close emotionally for me finally and I cant control it.


I wouldn't bother with this weekend.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I wouldn't bother with this weekend.


Well that's the hard part, I talk with this job tomorrow and if things go really well, then I may need to talk to her to get my stuff/make plans etc.

Disregard the job, if she texts me and asks to get together to talk you are recommending that I tell her I don't want to talk or that some plans have come up and I cannot get together with her? 

Shouldn't I at least hear what she has to say? Do you believe that me telling her no is going to have any positive effect on our marriage? Or are you recommending it more for me. If so then yes I understand but right now I am numb to her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well that's the hard part, I talk with this job tomorrow and if things go really well, then I may need to talk to her to get my stuff/make plans etc.
> 
> Disregard the job, if she texts me and asks to get together to talk you are recommending that I tell her I don't want to talk or that some plans have come up and I cannot get together with her?
> 
> Shouldn't I at least hear what she has to say? Do you believe that me telling her no is going to have any positive effect on our marriage? Or are you recommending it more for me. If so then yes I understand but right now I am numb to her.


If you are numb to her, then it's a waste of time anyway, no?


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

I think, from where we are sitting, your marriage is dead, and it is not coming back. Your stbxw doesn't want to reconcile, she wants to vent, alleviate her guilt, and lean on you for emotional support. None of this means she wants to be married to you.

If you humor her, you'll just prolong your agony.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Exactly. She wants to use you to help her feel better. Her. Not you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Well that's the hard part, I talk with this job tomorrow and if things go really well, then I may need to talk to her to get my stuff/make plans etc.
> 
> Disregard the job, if she texts me and asks to get together to talk you are recommending that I tell her I don't want to talk or that some plans have come up and I cannot get together with her?
> 
> Shouldn't I at least hear what she has to say? Do you believe that me telling her no is going to have any positive effect on our marriage? Or are you recommending it more for me. If so then yes I understand but right now I am numb to her.


She wont have anything constructive to say. Save yourself the agony, and only speak with her if you need to get things to go see about the job. 

The whole suicide thing...bullsh!t. Its manipulation to get your attention and garner your sympathy. I have seen it in action. So dont let that get to your head too much. You have been doing pretty great, in my opinion. Feel free to PM me if you need any additional support.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks all,

I think you are all correct. At this point I feel like running away, from her, this town, everything related to her. At the same time I still have that damned sliver of hope but I know that you are all correct, she is just alleviating her guilt and trying to get emotional support from me.

I guess I should finally just let go 100% and tell her I am not up to meeting and talking this weekend and that I will head over there with my friend to pick up the remainder of my stuff.


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey sadman, are you doing ok?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Hell all,

Well it was an eventful weekend. I went out to eat with my two friends im living with. While we were out eating my wife texted me saying she misses her husband and she is sorry for everything and wants me home now, she said she understand if I don't want to come back right away with how fickle she has been lately.

I texted back asking "does this mean you want to work on things?"

She said yes. She said she understand we have a lot of work to do and that she is willing to do anything to make things right again between us. She said she will go to marriage counseling as well. 

So she came over that night (Saturday) and came into my room. Started crying and hugged me. She said she understand there is a lot of work to do on her behalf and that she betrayed me and my trust for her and she realizes that. She grabbed the divorce papers and ripped them up one by one and then asked if we can burn them hah. It was nice to see her take that action without any mention from me, she just walked in hugged me, said a few words and started ripping them up. We then hugged for a while and she cried a little. She was smiling the whole time, tears of joy.

I am still pretty numb and didn't cry or get emotional at all. I'm sure it was a little disappointing for her haha. Anyways, she stayed over pretty late that night and we all had a few drinks and played a board game, we laughed a lot and she was touchy feely with me. She came up to me in private and we both poured a drink and she said "to the long road ahead" smiling as we cheers each other. Then later I went into my room to put my keys on my table, she followed me and came up behind me and hugged me. She said "this just feels right doesn't it" and kissed me. I was pretty silent the whole night...I didn't really say anything back, I couldn't for some reason.

She also invited me to go to the fair the next day which I agreed to. That turned out ok except we both felt very pressured socially since we went with 6 people that seems to be watching us a lot. My wife was pretty distant from me at the beginning and one of her friends (the one I am staying with) even asked her if she is flip flopping on her decision, my wife told her no and asked her why she is asking that. Her friend told her its because she was not being affectionate towards me at all. Probably not her place to say anything like that at this time. Since she made her decision to work on things we have not had much alone time together at all to talk about stuff.

So a lot of pressure there, probably a bad idea to go. The rest of the night got a lot better though, we went on rides together and we laughed and had a blast. I also told her I will move back in next Saturday as I am not comfortable moving back in right away. She agreed completely and understood. She grabbed my hand and arm and laid her head on my shoulder. It was a good feeling again.

I talked to my wife on the phone after we all went our separate ways before bed time. I told her there was a lot of pressure and I felt pretty awkward, she agreed and suggested that we hang out this week sometime just the two of us to enjoy each others company without any social pressure. She said she was wierded out when her friend told her she wasn't being affectionate. She said she just felt a lot of pressure with all those people there studying her every move.

I told her that this is going to take time to fix for BOTH of us and one night is not going to make everything go back to normal and I realize that. She also agreed and sounded happy. She told me she loves me and I said it back.


The problem now is that I still feel devastated....it didn't go away at all. I thought after she came over and ripped up the papers and said all the great things she said, things that are exactly what you want to hear in this situation, that I would feel better. But I do not.

I talked with my friend I am living with last night about it and I started to cry. I realize now that this whole situation has taken a toll on me emotionally and it has changed me as a person for the time being anyways. I think I feel bad still because I don't trust a word she says at all. I really want to be happy as all the things she said are what you would want to hear from a wayward spouse. Its just really depressing even more that I don't. I feel like I have been killed inside and I might not ever go back to being normal again. I know that time heals these wounds but its still not a great feeling.

So yeah, things sound good for our marriage. I will move in, keep working on myself. I have upped my workout routine to twice a day (morning & night) 6 days a week, and eating mostly protein (fish, powder, vegatables, chicken). I never feel starved but I know it not many calories (I am trying to shed a lot of fat). I have noticed my strength has already increased over this last month by around 50 pounds on every lift exercise which is HUGE gains.

I just really hope she is down for the leg work it is going to take to do this. She really sounds like she wants this now. The night she came over and ripped up the papers she kept telling me how much she missed being with me and laughing and holding each other.

My friend told me later that the day she gave me the divorce papers my wife went and talked with the other guy for the first time in a month. She told him she was getting a divorce but that she didn't want to be with him either. She told him she wanted to live alone for a while. I guess the other guy started pressuring her and telling her that he can make her truly happy and blah blah blah blah I want to get in your pants blah blah blah type stuff and supposedly it really pushed her away from him. 

so one of the things I will need her to do to earn back my trust is to prove to me that, that bridge is burned, that it is destroyed with this other guy. I am not quit sure how to go about that since she will probably say she already called it off with him. But at this point I need proof.

So all in all everything is a step in the right direction. She looks and sounds truly genuine and sincere. She realizes what she has done and said she is willing to do anything and everything to make things right again. I am just starting to realize how much work this is going to take for ME to feel ok again.

I will update more later. We are meeting up this week to talk and hang out.

My mind is racing all over the place right now so sorry if the above seems confusing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Get the No Contact Letter from the CWI forum.

Have her fill it out and sign it - and send it with signature required on delivery, so you know he got it.

I know this has been difficult on you.

But, those things you feel hanging between your legs are important - don't lose track of them again.

Congratulations.

I know it wasn't an easy road.

And, a new road is just beginning.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

What about the new job?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BK23 said:


> What about the new job?


She can come with him if she loves him so much.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

The new job is a no go. They decided to go with someone local because they needed someone in a little less than 2 weeks which is not enough time (and I don't have enough money) to get a place or anything.

The company decided they are not willing to assist with relocation either. Even though I told them I would not need it if I had more time, maybe a couple more weeks. I also would want to put in a two week notice at my current job, so the time frame thing just didn't work out for them.

"Get the No Contact Letter from the CWI forum."

I looked on that forum, not sure if I am just missing it, but I do not see the thread this letter is in. Maybe I am just blind hah.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

oh found it never mind.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Do you think it is a good idea to have her read the whole page that contains the letter? Or how do you bring that up? I could print out the letter and just have her read it and sign it. Or should I have her write one up of her own with me there?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Also, do you think I should have her do this after I move in or during this week before I move in.
EDIT: stupid question. Doing it this week.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Do you think it is a good idea to have her read the whole page that contains the letter? Or how do you bring that up? I could print out the letter and just have her read it and sign it. Or should I have her write one up of her own with me there?


Print it and hand it to her.

No reason to raise her antennae.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Print it and hand it to her.
> 
> No reason to raise her antennae.


Yep the only hang up with this letter is that she is not going to know his home address most likely. I tried looking it up but no go. Any other ideas on how to handle this so I have proof that he got it in case we cannot find his personal address?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Honestly at this point I really don't even think sending this letter to the guy will help me at all. I know its a way for her to prove that she has burned that bridge once and for all but not sure what it means for me. I can imagine us sending it and it doesn't change anything for me emotionally but I guess its just something that has to be done for the marriage.

I am still going to do it but just don't think it will do anything for me. Maybe it will do something for her though.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Honestly at this point I really don't even think sending this letter to the guy will help me at all. I know its a way for her to prove that she has burned that bridge once and for all but not sure what it means for me. I can imagine us sending it and it doesn't change anything for me emotionally but I guess its just something that has to be done for the marriage.
> 
> I am still going to do it but just don't think it will do anything for me. Maybe it will do something for her though.


It won't hurt you to have her send it.

It's an alpha-like move.

Do it.

You can always dump the relationship later if it's not what you want.

I do have a serious question for you.

Remember how you felt when you got here?

You did a decent job with the advice and it worked.

Why go wobbly now?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It won't hurt you to have her send it.
> 
> It's an alpha-like move.
> 
> ...



Don't worry, I am not going wobbly at all. Just more thinking about stuff out loud. I will sit down with her and talk about this letter when we meet up, get it sent out right away.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well I had a discussion with my wife last night over the phone. Things are still pretty shaky in my opinion. She said the feelings have lessened in the last couple days as far as her being so gung ho about reconciliation but that she still wants to work on things. She said she has not flip flopped on that but maybe we should take another week before you move in just to protect both of us.

I got pissed. I asked her if she was serious and that it sounds like she Is flip flopping. She said she isn't but that she is afraid of herself with how fickle she has been lately.

I told her to look at the chain of event from my point of view. First you come over gung ho about reconciling and that you are willing to do anything and everything to make things right. Then the next day at the fair you are distant, then the next day you didn't text or call at all. Just seems like strange behavior for someone wanting to work on things is all I am saying. I then asked her to tell me everything that happened with this other guy.

She said "as far as what?" I told her to just tell me everything, did anything else happen. She said yes, she said the day after she gave me the divorce papers, she was sure about the decision so she went to see him and they cuddled and groped each other only on the outside of the clothes. She says she couldn't kiss him and there was no under the clothes at all. I got furious and told her "wow took you no time to get over me, guess all that talk about divorcing to be alone was bullsh!t." She said she is just trying to be honest with me and that nothing more happened and that she cried for 3 days after being with him. She said "you are the only one using the affair word" and I got mad again and told her IT IS AN AFFAIR....emotional affairs are a real thing I told her and now its gone a bit physical. I asked her "do you really think everything that has gone down with this guy is just fine and no big deal? Do you really not accept any responsibility that things were taken too far?" She said "no, I agree with you, I do......I'm a loser, a sluut and I cheated on you." I said "You are not a loser or a sluut..."

I brought up the no contact letter, she was a bit confused by it but agreed to write and send it out with me. She said she didn't know how this would work since this guy's department will call their department and she has to answer and it might be him calling to tell them work related information. She said she really cannot help that part. I said well maybe we could put a part in the letter saying you will not talk to me as a friend and you will never be anything more than a co-worker. She agreed and said she would write the letter and agreed we should send it certified mail.

She then told me that she hadn't told her mom that we are working on things yet but that she is going to. I asked her if she had told her dad, she said yeah but that she doesn't want to talk about it. I asked her why? and so she told me that "he was actually looking forward to me starting new with someone else, but he only saw the negatives I was going through and honestly it doesn't matter what he thinks" I was hurt, I love her dad....I said "wow....what the fvck did I do to him? holy sh!t"

At this point I was done, I had tears of fury in my eyes and my head felt like it was about to explode. I told her I don't know even know what to think anymore and to just fvck everything, I gotta go. She started crying a bit and begged me not to hang up. She kept saying I love you, and that she wanted to work on things. She said she is taking this Thursday off work to spend time with me and I should come over after work. She said "Maybe I can do something that will cheer you up on Thursday" whatever that means. I agreed to talk more on Thursday.

Honestly at this point there is a whole new issue for me.....can I get past the fact that she and this guy put their hands all over each other and possibly more (she swears to high heaven that nothing else happened). I don't know how to get past that in my mind. I want to find and kill this guy, I am so furious and angry about this. I don't know how to get past it. She sounds like she is willing to work past it, willing to sign and send the letter and still work on things but she sounds like she is still in flux a bit to me.

I am so confused and hurt right now I just feel like walking into oncoming traffic.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

She's lying to you!

Get tougher.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I KNEW it! She is trickle truthing you! She is telling you that they groped over clothes with no kissing? Who does that?? They had sex. Guarantee you. Probably on multiple occasions. 

She is already mind-fvcking you. Not only does she need to agree to the letter, she needs to offer to look for another job, since they work for the same place. You know, YOU can make the decision to end things, this is your marriage too, and it does NOT have to be up to her. I am so angry that she is pulling this stuff on you already.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> She's lying to you!
> 
> Get tougher.


I would really love to get tougher but I cant do that magically right now. I am too confused and hurt right now. She sounds like she wants to work on things now but now that I know she actually did meet up with this guy....I just don't know. She is willing to write and send the no contact letter with me. She is willing to work on things. But I just don't know how people can get over infidelity..

Can anyone give me any tips for getting over it? Or how to move on when it has happened? This feels impossible..


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Dude. This woman is not ready to have a healthy R with you. She obviously has no idea what she wants, she is lying to you, she is still manipulating you. 

If you're going to keep trying, which I wouldn't in your shoes, you've got to stop letting her call the shots. Tell her what she must do if she wants you back--complete honesty, transparency, etc.--If she doesn't do those things, walk. She will continue to string you along and treat you like plan B--maybe for years--if you let her.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I would really love to get tougher but I cant do that magically right now.


Then fake it.

Hard 180.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Can anyone give me any tips for getting over it? Or how to move on when it has happened?


Love yourself....that's how.

Let her go!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She banged him.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I am hurting so bad, I cant stop crying now...I was numb for the past few days and then BAM....I am so angry, I am in a whirlwind of emotion and I cant get out.

I want to go see her face to face and ask her if they had sex. I know she probably wouldn't tell me but I might be able to tell from her facial expressions etc. If she could admit that, I think it would be easier for me to let go of her.

I am so hurt I don't even know what I am saying right now. Part of me wants to tell her its over but that's so hard to do when she said she is now wanting to work on things. I am raging with anger while crying, while typing on this forum....I feel like such a broken lost destroyed dead individual. I just want this to end now.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I want to go see her face to face and ask her if they had sex. I know she probably wouldn't tell me but I might be able to tell from her facial expressions etc. If she could admit that, I think it would be easier for me to let go of her.


Don't ask her sh!t. She'll probably trickle a little more truth out.
It won't get easier by her admitting anything. This will take a long time to heal from but you will heal. Let her go!

Cut all contact. Start the divorce process. You are in competition with the OM. Don't play the game. Start the D.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Don't ask her sh!t. She'll probably trickle a little more truth out.
> It won't get easier by her admitting anything. This will take a long time to heal from but you will heal. Let her go!
> 
> Cut all contact. Start the divorce process. You are in competition with the OM. Don't play the game. Start the D.


She's likely using you to make him jealous.

He got the goods and dumped her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Don't ask her sh!t. She'll probably trickle a little more truth out.
> It won't get easier by her admitting anything. This will take a long time to heal from but you will heal. Let her go!
> 
> Cut all contact. Start the divorce process. You are in competition with the OM. Don't play the game. Start the D.


Tell her you found someone and she is pressuring you to divorce then walk away.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Sadman I had posted earlier that I would not offer you any more advice but I've been following your thread and I'd like to make a few observations.

You actually sounded like you were in a somewhat better place a few days or so ago, when you had accepted that it was over, and you were getting a grip on your emotions. That's part of the grieving process and you were moving rather well towards the next stage and you were beginning to effectively detach. You reminded me of what I went through with my own divorce.. long story short we were fighting a lot, she started throwing out the "D" word, she ultimately had me kicked out of the house with a bogus restraining order, then she fell apart, recanted, I moved back in again in a final attempt to reconcile but emotionally and otherwise, I was done, and I eventually moved out and filed for divorce against her wishes. It sounded like you were almost there yourself.

Then.. BAM. Here she comes waltzing back into your life, you jump all over it and then she decides that she's maybe not so sure that she wants back in, she's still involved with the other guy to some extent, and here you are taking a whole bunch of steps backwards and feeling more pain than you've had in weeks, isn't that right?

I get that you're somewhat powerless to control your emotions and it's only been a month or so, and it's a lot to expect for you to be able to resist the impulse to try to fix everything and live happily ever after, but at some point you're going to have to pull back and get a grip because no one is strong enough to go through this back and forth emotional roller coaster for an indefinite period of time.

Realize that she's not all that concerned about your needs and the damage she's doing to you, she's only concerned about what she wants at any given time. 

Note that I'm not giving you any advice here, just giving you some things to think about.

Hang in there man.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman

Your wife is all over the place. And yes, she is most likely still lying. 

Do not walk into oncoming traffic. She does not deserve that. Neither do you. 

Take a few steps back. Think. Calm down. 

And stop letting her dictate whether you R or D. The choice is yours. 

Frankly you can do so much better. 

But for now cool, calm and dispassionate will leave you in a better place. 

HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I am destroyed. I am sorry if the below does not make sense I am trying to type this out the best I can.

So I called her an hour and a half ago. I asked her to tell me the truth did anything else happen with this guy that night. She said yes, she said he fingered her and she "kissed his penis". I dropped the phone and was shaking uncontrollably. She called back and I said "so you gave him oral sex" she said no, and that she understands it sounds weird but she didn't. She said they did not have sex though, just those things were done and some caressing. She said she felt horrible immediately and it made her realize how much she misses me and loves me as horrible as that sounds.

She said last night after we talked she actually called him and told him she can never see him again. She said he was devastated and started crying. I told her "good". She says she still feels bad for him because this is all her fault. She then said she does not want to do the letter as she already devastated him and already told him is it completely over. I told her it is non-negotiable and she really fought it. I told her it is for me as well....I don't know what you told him over the phone, this is for me and us and our marriage.

Anyways I was too devastated and my boss told me to take the day off. I am home now, devastated and sad. She texted me again telling me to please say something, do you want to still work on things and that she is so sorry she hurt me so bad. Then she also said something that pissed me off, she said he is going through the same pain you are and even though you don't give two sh!its about it, I do because I am partly responsible.

She called a little bit ago and re-iterated that she wanted to work on things, I told her I do as well but after hearing all this stuff it would take some major work on her end and this letter is the first step. I also asked her if she truly thinks he is having the same pain I am....I asked her was he married to you for 7 years? Was he in love with you for 12 years? NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BALLPARK. She said, yeah no exactly the same, and I told her not the same what so ever.

She really fought the letter again so I said, "well this is something we need to do but you continue to put this guys feelings over mine and our marriage so.."

She was just silent to that comment, she just kept saying "its just a piece of paper though, I already told him it is truly over" and I told her well I don't know that, I don't know what was said.

Anyways she had to go because she was at work.

I texted her a bit later saying "I am willing to work on things with you but you are going to have to prove to me that you are truly sorry and want to work on things. Can you do that?"

She responded with "I feel like it's kicking someone while they are down...Making one person feel more miserable just to make the other person happy. I don't know if I can do that."

I responded with "okay."

Not sure what else to say at this point. Its like this happened and now she realizes she wants to work on things but is scared I wont be able to trust her (DUH!!) ever and she doesn't want to do the letter now.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

She just texted again saying "Is that it then? R u not going to move back in just because I don't want to do this one thing?"


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I am destroyed. I am sorry if the below does not make sense I am trying to type this out the best I can.
> 
> So I called her an hour and a half ago. I asked her to tell me the truth did anything else happen with this guy that night. She said yes, she said he fingered her and she "kissed his penis". I dropped the phone and was shaking uncontrollably. She called back and I said "so you gave him oral sex" she said no, and that she understands it sounds weird but she didn't. She said they did not have sex though, just those things were done and some caressing. She said she felt horrible immediately and it made her realize how much she misses me and loves me as horrible as that sounds.
> 
> ...


Please... Really?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

hah I have still not responded and she just texted again "Do you want to come over to the apartment when i'm off work? Maybe work out together then talk?"

I feel like I am about to fking go insane.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

I know you're in so much pain right now, it's hard to see straight, but take some time and just let the emotions recede. Once you're feeling calmer, ask yourself if you even want to reconcile with someone that puts her affair partner's feelings ahead of yours. 

This woman does not give two sh!ts about your happiness, man.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> hah I have still not responded and she just texted again "Do you want to come over to the apartment when i'm off work? Maybe work out together then talk?"
> 
> I feel like I am about to fking go insane.


S-Man,

She's having trouble with posOM.

So, the first time she tells you the "truth", it was a heavy make out session.

Now, her lips have been on his member.

That isn't the only place his member has been.

So, trouble with posOM means, "Let's shore up Plan B"

That'd be you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sadman

Sadly she has proven that when her lips are moving she is lying.

Stand back now.

See what actions she makes. 

Because if she really wanted you and was convinced of that she would have already written the No COntact letter.

Time is on your side.

Stop talking to her and watch her actions.

Hm


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sadman,

"She doesn't want to do the letter now"

What else do you need to know?

You've already been told (emasculated) that she sees herself having children with this posOM that she now doesn't wish to send a letter of No Contact.

I wonder why she won't send it?

Now you know why we recommend you get her to do it.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Please go no contact with her. 

You are shooting yourself in the foot.

She's lying thru her teeth. 

Do not engage with her for at least a week. You cannot think
straight atm.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sweetie...no letter, no R. Period. Personally, I think that you should end things, she is making it VERY clear that she cares WAY more about the POSOM's feelings than yours! She is STILL LYING. We are all grownups here, we know what really happens when the pants are down, come on. She has been lying this entire time. Take the power away from her and end it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> Sweetie...no letter, no R. Period. Personally, I think that you should end things, she is making it VERY clear that she cares WAY more about the POSOM's feelings than yours! She is STILL LYING. We are all grownups here, we know what really happens when the pants are down, come on. She has been lying this entire time. Take the power away from her and end it.


People say all sorts of things.

When the letter is in front of them for signature, they either have to own it or get off the pot.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I agreed to meet up with her at our apartment at 8:30 tonight. I am first going to try and get the truth from her about this guy (since every time I ask she gives me more and more) and then give her the no contact letter to read. If she will not agree to writing it out and sending it then I am going to walk out. If she agrees and we start talking about the truth a bit then we will see what happens.

I cant stop thinking about her with this other guy. It is driving me nuts and eating me alive.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I agreed to meet up with her at our apartment at 8:30 tonight.


Have you ever not agreed to anything she's asked of you?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lenzi said:


> Have you ever not agreed to anything she's asked of you?


To ask the question is to answer it.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Have you ever not agreed to anything she's asked of you?


I have to go do this for myself honestly. I am being eaten alive by thoughts and we have not had much time to talk in person about everything. I have to go do this I feel.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I have to go do this for myself honestly. I am being eaten alive by thoughts and we have not had much time to talk in person about everything. I have to go do this I feel.


Cool and calm tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Cool and calm tonight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will try. I really want to find out if they actually had sex and I think at this point she will tell me if I ask again and pry. I feel like it will make it easier to let her go....but maybe not. 

Its like she is saying, well I had to do what I had to do to realize that I love and miss you and want to work on our marriage...hope you can forgive me.

I honestly don't know that I can. How the hell do people stay together after one of them has done this...just seems impossible.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Meeting her is a bad idea.

We all know what happened.

Stay cool and calm when you meet.

She puts up any resistance then gtfo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Meeting her is a bad idea.
> 
> We all know what happened.
> 
> ...


Yeah I am not going to ask about the other guy. I am going to walk in say hello etc. Sit down with her see if she has anything to say right off, if not I have the print out and will give it to her to read. If she makes one excuse about writing it, I am getting up and just walking out. DIVORCE TIME after that. I cant handle this anymore emotionally.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah I am not going to ask about the other guy. I am going to walk in say hello etc. Sit down with her see if she has anything to say right off, if not I have the print out and will give it to her to read. If she makes one excuse about writing it, I am getting up and just walking out. DIVORCE TIME after that. I cant handle this anymore emotionally.


Stick to your guns.

It's called emotional communication.

It will earn you some respect points.

Have you read the 180 yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Stick to your guns.
> 
> It's called emotional communication.
> 
> ...


Hi Gut, yes I have read it. That's the plan, if she fights the letter, I will leave and look into filing for divorce tomorrow. I guess that's all I can do at that point.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Hi Gut, yes I have read it. That's the plan, if she fights the letter, I will leave and look into filing for divorce tomorrow. I guess that's all I can do at that point.


Look your best tonight.

Don't forget to bring your balls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah I am not going to ask about the other guy. I am going to walk in say hello etc. Sit down with her see if she has anything to say right off, if not I have the print out and will give it to her to read. If she makes one excuse about writing it, I am getting up and just walking out. DIVORCE TIME after that. I cant handle this anymore emotionally.


She starts to squawk, you rise silently and leave.

No emotional appeals for the victim chair.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

How did the meeting go?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

The meeting went bad. I went in, said hello got that out of the way. She was already devastated when I got there. She immediately told me she is not doing good. I sat down beside her and she put her head down. I put my hand on her shoulder and she backed away and started crying saying "I don't deserve to be touched right now"

I let her cry for a bit and just sat there silent. She turned back to me and said "How can you still love me after what I have done."

I didn't respond. She looked over to the folder that contained the letter and asked what it was. I told her it was the letter we discussed. I told her if she is able to do this and write this letter, I will be willing to forgive and move forward with working on stuff with her.

So she sat and read it over for a bit. Then she finished and just sat there. I said "well what do you think?" She said "so how does this work? I just give it to him or his boss or something at work?" I told her no, we mail it to him certified mail so he has to sign for it. 

She immediately said "Oh no, I am not doing that, I am not doing that."

So I said, thinking about her text earlier where she said giving this guy a letter is like kicking someone when they are down since she already told him it was over, "what's funny about your comment earlier that its like kicking someone when they are down is that you were willing to kick me when I was down and give me papers and now you are not willing to do this one thing for me, us and our marriage and give this guy his papers. This is telling me that you put this guy's feeling above mine and above our marriage."

She just looked depressed. I got up and slowly walked out, when I got to the door she yelled to stop and come here, I kept walking and closed the door.

I was devastated. I got in my car and started driving. She ran out of the apartment and ran after my car. I stopped the car and she opened the door and was crying and grabbed the folder with the letter in off the chair. We didn't say a word to each other for 5 minutes or so. She just kept reading over the letter. She then asked if she could have a few minutes and asked if I would just pull back into the lot just for a few minutes. We pulled back in and sat there.

She started talking about how she has no idea how she became so infatuated with this other guy and that she was so sure she wanted to work on things just like she was when she wanted the divorce but now she doesn't know. She said "all I know is I have feelings for this other guy and I don't want to send this letter."

I said "then what are you still doing in my car?"

She said depressingly "yeah, your'e right, you're right, I cant keep pulling you in and then doing this to you" and grabbed the door handle but didn't open it. She sat back in the chair instead and cried a bit. Out of nowhere she asked me if I want kids, I told her I do someday definitely....weird question. I asked her why she is asking and she said she was just wondering...ok...

I told her I cant do this dance with her anymore, I wont. I told her I will be over to get the rest of my stuff in a few days with my friend and that I will proceed with the divorce on my end.

She looked very sad the whole time and kept reading over the papers again and again. Finally I told her..."well...its getting hot out here and I need to leave soon to get to bed"

She said "can I sit on this letter for a day or two? I just want to think about it by myself"

I said "you can do whatever you want, I am still proceeding with getting my stuff and the divorce." 

At this point I already had my answer and it is over. She took the folder with her to "think" about it on her own but the level of dishonesty and disrespect towards me is just.......no other guy would have put up with this I really don't think. I have tried to be as understanding and patient as I can...even to a fault of hurting myself emotionally. I did not want to give up on my sweetheart but now I have to. I am in soo much pain right now while typing this and I am crying. I feel like part of me is happy the other has suffered a great loss and will never heal.

Today my wife texted me and said she loves me and that her friend will be completely moved out tomorrow and that maybe her spending some time alone in the apartment will be good for her. I told her "I love you to. Ok, I can understand why you would want more time. I am still planning on coming over with Nate (my friend) on Saturday to get the rest of my stuff."

She replied later "ok"

So unfortunately my marriage is actually over completely. There is no coming back from this or what she has done, I just don't see it anymore. My sweetheart that I loved and who loved me is dead or never actually existed in the first place. Like being stuck in a bad dream, I feel like the last 12 years have been a waste and a constant betrayal. I have no idea how to recover from this. I do know I am done with this person.

Anyone have any tips for dealing with the massive chest pain that feels like my heart is going to explode? The crying? The depression? The thinking about her with this guy in my apartment?

I am going to play some video games with a friend tonight after work and try to eat something and just relax. I could not eat anything yesterday. I have dropped 34 pounds now probably not the healthy way but I am working on eating better and working out.

I just cant get rid of the thoughts above. The betrayal is just horrible feeling. I'm such a mess right now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I was worried reading this until I saw this:

>>I said "then what are you still doing in my car?"<<

That was absolutely perfect.

And, you are absolutely right.

She is prioritizing posOM over you.

If she wants your relationship, there is nothing to think about.

Her stalling is an invitation for you to cave in (again).

I know it hurts, but you did a great job.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I was worried reading this until I saw this:
> 
> >>I said "then what are you still doing in my car?"<<
> 
> ...


Nice job Sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> The meeting went bad. I went in, said hello got that out of the way. She was already devastated when I got there. She immediately told me she is not doing good. I sat down beside her and she put her head down. I put my hand on her shoulder and she backed away and started crying saying "I don't deserve to be touched right now"
> 
> I let her cry for a bit and just sat there silent. She turned back to me and said "How can you still love me after what I have done."
> 
> ...


I'm available to chat tonight if you want.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thank you Conrad and Tom67. Its good to have someone cheering me on. I am really shaky right now and need strength. In fact I might watch Conan the Barbarian right now and then go punch a camel...if I can find one.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Thank you Conrad and Tom67. Its good to have someone cheering me on. I am really shaky right now and need strength. In fact I might watch Conan the Barbarian right now and then go punch a camel...if I can find one.


If you want to feel better, think about how you "would" feel were you pretending to be waiting for her to "decide" your future.

That, my man, would make you Plan B

She'd be free to use your loyalty to bargain with posOM.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thank you Conrad and Tom67. Its good to have someone cheering me on. I am really shaky right now and need strength. In fact I might watch Conan the Barbarian right now and then go punch a camel...if I can find one.


Watch the new Conan too, it's more like the Howard stories!


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Holy Shyt Batman!

Way to go Sadman.

Excellent job!.....but stop the I Love Yous.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

angstire said:


> Watch the new Conan too, it's more like the Howard stories!


I'm sorry you feel that way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Holy Shyt Batman!
> 
> Way to go Sadman.
> 
> Excellent job!.....but stop the I Love Yous.


Never say it again.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

yeah the I love you was just me being honest, but I really shouldn't do that anymore, no doubt. Thanks guys I will keep you posted up to the very end here.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

and gals


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Pbartender said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way.


I'm not.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> yeah the I love you was just me being honest, but I really shouldn't do that anymore, no doubt. Thanks guys I will keep you posted up to the very end here.


It's not the end.

It's your beginning.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Hang in there, man. You really should be proud of yourself for staying strong and maintaining your dignity during what must have been one of the worst evenings of your life. That was likely bottom. From here, things are going to get better and better--it may take some time, and a whole lot of effort on your part, but they will.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

It was definitely the worst evening of my life. My wife basically told me she cares for another man she barely knows a couple months, more than me. hard to stomach but I did just find a camel....oh and I also just printed out the divorce papers and am filling them out right now.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> It was definitely the worst evening of my life. My wife basically told me she cares for another man she barely knows a couple months, more than me. hard to stomach but I did just find a camel....oh and I also just printed out the divorce papers and am filling them out right now.


It's almost time to change that user name of yours.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

You handled it well, and I won't even beat you up over the lame "I love you too".

Best way to handle stress is exercise, not so sure about videogames.

Do you have a bicycle? Go out and ride, it's a great to blow off steam, it will do wonders for your anxiety.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

angstire said:


> I'm not.


Robert E. Howard is sorry you feel that way.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> You handled it well, and I won't even beat you up over the lame "I love you too".
> 
> Best way to handle stress is exercise, not so sure about videogames.
> 
> Do you have a bicycle? Go out and ride, it's a great to blow off steam, it will do wonders for your anxiety.


Yeah I was thinking of getting a bicycle but currently I do not have the money as I need to save for my own place soon since I am divorcing. 

So I have to find something else to deal with the pain right now. Spending time with friends helps a little. Working out helps a bit as well. Just trying to keep doing something each day no matter what it is, a lot of things remind me of her so it is very hard sometimes.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Sandman I am so very very sorry you are in this spot. I know it hurts like hell right now and you know what I am going to give you some stuff that will make it better.


1. Delete her number, delete any pictures you have of her, delete her text history. Turn off you phone. Then give it to your friend and tell him to give it back tomorrow.

2. You used to write if I remember correctly. I want you to sit down and write a letter to your wife "no you are never going to send it" I want you to put in all your hate, anger and vengeance go as far as you want rip her up one side and down the other. Spend some time on it go through you whole relationship. Let is all out.

3. Now I want you to set up an online profile at Plenty of Fish or Match.com just spend sometime setting it up. No you are not going to do anything but spend sometime doing it any way. Look around at the profiles and dream of your NEW future.

4. Now I want you to sit down again and start writing go through 10 things you are going to start doing. Then set one month, two month and three month goals. Yeah and one of these better be go on one date.


This is not the end for you my friend this is a rebirth for you. You are looking at this as an end of a marriage instead I want you to look at this as a necessary step in a rebirth of your LIFE. Look at how much you have learned look at the issues you have already faced and are dealing with. LOOK AT YOUR GROWTH. Imagine where you will be in 3 months.....You are an amazing man you will be an incredible man in 3 months and when you look back on this day and your relationship with her you will be astonished at yourself. My hopes are with you


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sad,

Look how fat you got.

Food is comfort when other emotional needs (for pleasure mainly) aren't met.

You'll be able to be honest (to yourself) about all of this in the near term.

ANY woman willing to tell her man she can see herself having kids with another man - but not him - isn't worth keeping.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sad,
> 
> Look how fat you got.
> 
> ...


Oh CMON I only got up to 289 lbs....... down to 255 now. Long ways to go before women start to look though.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Sandman I am so very very sorry you are in this spot. I know it hurts like hell right now and you know what I am going to give you some stuff that will make it better.
> 
> 
> 1. Delete her number, delete any pictures you have of her, delete her text history. Turn off you phone. Then give it to your friend and tell him to give it back tomorrow.
> ...


Thanks CEL, I appreciate the kind words and the support. I really need it right now. I keep trying to cheer myself on inside my head and then I get a thought of her and this other guy and how could she have done this to me etc and then I spiral for a bit...im sure that will be normal for a while.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I will try the writing a letter to her but not sending it thing and see what that does for me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I will try the writing a letter to her but not sending it thing and see what that does for me.


It's bound to provoke a wide range of emotions


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Once your write it keep it and add to it as you go. Be free to let it all out don't hold back you are feeling alot right now and a good part of you is waring with your continued love for her. So let the anger and yes hatred out call her names demean her get to FEEL those emotions let them flow from you to the paper you are allowed to feel these things and should have an outlet to express them. By suppressing it you are doing YOURSELF more damage emotions need to be released but in constructive ways. Remember NO ONE will ever see it so let it be ugly.


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

have you read this thread sadman?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/43925-i-should-just-divorce-her.html


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Hey all. I need help.

My wife just texted me:

"Thank you for coming over yesterday. I had a nice chat with my mom last night. I'm feeling better today."

Then:

"I love u"

Then:

"I was in disbelief with how much pain I was causing everyone. I wasn't thinking very clearly because of it. So sorry for me being so unstable yesterday."

I have not yet responded because well none of that sounds like anything I want to really hear and at this point words mean two things, jack and sh!t...and jack left town.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Don't respond. Fitness test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Don't respond. Fitness test.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will be sorry if you respond.

This is simply fishing to see if "Plan B" is in place.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Like clockwork.

Woman is needy as Hell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Like clockwork.
> 
> Woman is needy as Hell.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She will regret this time in her life like no other, BUT ONLY IF HE LETS HER.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I am not responding until she says "I wrote the letter" basically otherwise we are done.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Don't respond until she tells you she has the returned receipt with his signature.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> I am not responding until she says "I wrote the letter" basically otherwise we are done.


Turn off your phone right now she is playing you. Turn it off she will not die tonight and neither will you. Anything that can be said can be said tomorrow. One night is not going to kill this or make it better but staying connected all the time is draining you. Cut the damn cord for tonight.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah I am fine. I am just not responding to anything tonight. ABout to chill with a friend and leave my phone at the computer.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I am not responding until she says "I wrote the letter" basically otherwise we are done.


Sounds like a man who's ready for the otherside.

Congrats brother. I am a believer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have to send the letter so you know she sent the right letter. Her worried about how much pain he's in ? Seems awfully attached for such a short term affair with no sex. She is still lying but I do not understand why she is ping ponging.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sandman

Can I give you some advice.

Divorce her. Let her know its your way or the highway.

Then show her you mean it.

Do not let her pull you like a yoyo. That is what causes you so much pain.

HM


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Hey all. I need help.
> 
> My wife just texted me:
> 
> ...




Ok woke up this morning, she had texted again at 1:28am:

"Please remember me for how I was on Saturday. That is the real me. Your wife who loves u. I'm still here & I want to work on things"

So far I have not responded but I would be fibbing if I said I am not tempted to tell her something along the lines of "actions speak louder than words." not sure what to do here. My logical side says, nope, do not respond unless she is begging and saying she will write the letter. My logical side is also saying, are you sure you will be able to forgive her for what has happened anyways months down the road. She also works at a job where she may have contact with this guy once in a while and I doubt she will want to look for a new job as this is the job she always wanted as a kid, her dream job I guess. I know people will say you should put your marriage before the job but I don't see her looking or accepting that I would want her to find a new job.

Anyways, do you all think I should reply to that text or ignore it completely?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Again...Do not respond.

This is on her. You are not her backup plan.

You will not wait for her to "find herself"

It's way too soon for you to react to anything.

Sit back and watch what she does and not what she says.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> Again...Do not respond.
> 
> This is on her. You are not her backup plan.
> 
> ...



I am not going to respond. Its just all words so far.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

My logical side says not to respond. My emotional side says to respond so that she doesn't think you just gave up and are no longer interested in her at all because then she might give up.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You could reply later that actions speak louder than words- then go cold.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> My logical side says not to respond. My emotional side says to respond so that she doesn't think you just gave up and are no longer interested in her at all because then she might give up.


That's called placing lower value on yourself.

That's exactly how she would see it.

"Hey Great... he's still interested, so I can continue with Plan A with no risk of being alone"


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> That's called placing lower value on yourself.
> 
> That's exactly how she would see it.
> 
> "Hey Great... he's still interested, so I can continue with Plan A with no risk of being alone"


So you think texting something like "actions speak louder than words" and leaving it at that would be pointless?


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> So you think texting something like "actions speak louder than words" and leaving it at that would be pointless?


Let it sit until you wake up tomorrow and see how you feel. If you still want to respond, then send your actions louder than words message.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> So you think texting something like "actions speak louder than words" and leaving it at that would be pointless?


That is what I think - and here's why.

You have already told her your boundary.

She is to have "No Contact" with Mr. Alpha I Want to Have His Baby and Not Yours.

Do you think you need to repeat yourself?

OR... would repeating yourself register with her emotional centers as needy and controlling?

Like.. you "really" want her to do it, so it becomes optional because you "really" wanting her to do it means you're still so attached she can do whatever she wants.

Yes, this is how emotions work.


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## hard2function (Jan 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> That is what I think - and here's why.
> 
> You have already told her your boundary.
> 
> ...


So how about sending this back - " does this mean you have sent the letter? "
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do you think you need to repeat yourself?
> 
> OR... would repeating yourself register with her emotional centers as needy and controlling?


And, not contacting her gives you a chance to work on dealing with what's in your head, without having her emotions added to it. Dealing with the uncertainty and staying true to the boundary you set. She'll come back to you with her decision, based on that last thing you told her was non-negotiable.

By tomorrow morning, you'll feel better about no contact, after having worked thru the thoughts and emotions of what you really want (your boundary) and realizing you've told her that. She doesn't need a reminder from you. Your last contact told her what you wanted and she's looking for an update, contact or weakness on your part for your dedication to that boundary.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hard2function said:


> So how about sending this back - " does this mean you have sent the letter? "
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That one is good, but likely can wait until she contacts him again.

And, she will.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That is what I think - and here's why.
> 
> You have already told her your boundary.
> 
> ...


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> That one is good, but likely can wait until she contacts him again.
> 
> And, she will.


Also I would want to see the letter and mail it out with her. I don't want her to write it, send it and then I have no idea what she wrote.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That one is good, but likely can wait until she contacts him again.
> 
> And, she will.


He can wait till saturday when he moves the rest of his stuff out.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Also I would want to see the letter and mail it out with her. I don't want her to write it, send it and then I have no idea what she wrote.


If she's got something with his signature on it, it's likely she complied.

Her maneuvering now is an attempt to get you to cave in and tell her it's ok not to do it.

Like you have so many other times - on so many other things - your entire relationship.

Make this time different.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If she's got something with his signature on it, it's likely she complied.
> 
> Her maneuvering now is an attempt to get you to cave in and tell her it's ok not to do it.
> 
> ...


Yep, I am holding strong, ignoring her texts. It is hard but I know I have to do it now for my own good as much as it hurts.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yep, I am holding strong, ignoring her texts. It is hard but I know I have to do it now for my own good as much as it hurts.


I had a similar stand-off on our anniversary.

The codependent "hoper" inside of me wanted to have a nice day and observation of the date.

The man inside told that "hoper" that if you ever want to have a Truly Happy Anniversary, this one must be sacrificed.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I had a similar stand-off on our anniversary.
> 
> The codependent "hoper" inside of me wanted to have a nice day and observation of the date.
> 
> The man inside told that "hoper" that if you ever want to have a Truly Happy Anniversary, this one must be sacrificed.


And what Sadman needs to realize.

This isn't about getting his wife back.

This is about him becoming the Man that he is destined to become.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I just had a break down in the bathroom...started thinking about her inviting this other guy over to OUR place and what they did and the details...I cant live with I don't think, I want to know all the details and at the same time I don't. I cant believe she did this to me...I just cant believe it


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I just had a break down in the bathroom...started thinking about her inviting this other guy over to OUR place and what they did and the details...I cant live with I don't think, I want to know all the details and at the same time I don't. I cant believe she did this to me...I just cant believe it


Hang in there sweetie, I know how hard this is. Turn your phone off for a while, let yourself have some time.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I just had a break down in the bathroom...started thinking about her inviting this other guy over to OUR place and what they did and the details...I cant live with I don't think, I want to know all the details and at the same time I don't. I cant believe she did this to me...I just cant believe it


Listen up brother.

It's not time for that yet.

Do your best to bracket it... and realize it's not about you.

If she comes to the table for R - and you'll have her - there's a process for that too, and it involves thrashing through all that stuff.

Don't get ahead of yourself.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

She just texted me:

"U & I were separated.... Meaning temporarily not together... That thing u want me to write out is for an AFFAIR while the couple is TOGETHER. An affair is something I did not commit & I still didn't have sex, even when I thought we were getting a divorce. Everyone including my mom thinks writing that out is absolutely unnecessary & adding fuel to the fire. I am sitting her telling u I want to work things out & go through therapy. I'm over the other guy & its done. U need to move on from this affair thing that I didn't even do. It scares me how loosely u throw the word around...Does this mean if I go to have drinks again with co-workers u will consider it "cheating"? 

Both of us will have to trust each other...I don't know that when we are back together u will give up on working on yourself..I don't know that u will go back to old habits & ask me for some money when you spent money on something stupid and then couldn't pay your bills. I don't know if u will not make payments on debts and I will get a call or court summon again (happened once for an old credit card). I don't know but I want to trust u & try again. A letter will not change that. And I also don't know if we will have a passionate romantic love that I've always craved, but I am willing to trust that we can work on it through therapy. U see...I am not the only person who needs to work on regaining trust here. I got a lot of broken promises from U over the years too."

I will update as they keep coming.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "U & I were separated.... Meaning temporarily not together... That thing u want me to write out is for an AFFAIR while the couple is TOGETHER. An affair is something I did not commit & I still didn't have sex, even when I thought we were getting a divorce. Everyone including my mom thinks writing that out is absolutely unnecessary & adding fuel to the fire. I am sitting her telling u I want to work things out & go through therapy. I'm over the other guy & its done. U need to move on from this affair thing that I didn't even do. It scares me how loosely u throw the word around...Does this mean if I go to have drinks again with co-workers u will consider it "cheating"?
> 
> ...


We're on this with you.

Now, she's attempting to blameshift.

Next thing you know, you'll be the guy that unzipped his fly so she could put her lips on it.

Ignore this message.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> We're on this with you.
> 
> Now, she's attempting to blameshift.
> 
> ...


Ok not responding. I cant believe she really thinks there was no affair just because it wasn't physical when we were together...its like she has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "U & I were separated.... Meaning temporarily not together... That thing u want me to write out is for an AFFAIR while the couple is TOGETHER. An affair is something I did not commit & I still didn't have sex, even when I thought we were getting a divorce. Everyone including my mom thinks writing that out is absolutely unnecessary & adding fuel to the fire. I am sitting her telling u I want to work things out & go through therapy. I'm over the other guy & its done. U need to move on from this affair thing that I didn't even do. It scares me how loosely u throw the word around...Does this mean if I go to have drinks again with co-workers u will consider it "cheating"?
> 
> ...


Blameshifting at its finest! 

This IS an affair, no matter HOW she wishes to color it! She was emotionally involved with this man BEFORE the whole seperation/divorce thing! How dare her, how FVCKING dare her. 

This is all you need, she has written the end here for you.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

She is sensing The Gladman is growing a back bone.

Now she's trying to shake him up emotionally to get the good old predictable Sadman to reappear.

I have seen this story playout somewhere.

Stay The Course... Always wanted to say that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

This is so painful to read...I feel like my wife is completely gone from whoever this person is texting me.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Stay strong man. Keep silent and don't respond from her last text you can see she is NOT ready to reconcile. If she can't get past this point you will have to divorce anyway do hold tight and stay silent. Oh and get out if that house go to a coffee shop or something.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Stay strong man. Keep silent and don't respond from her last text you can see she is NOT ready to reconcile. If she can't get past this point you will have to divorce anyway do hold tight and stay silent. Oh and get out if that house go to a coffee shop or something.


I am actually at work right now so just trying to keep busy buts its hard as hell.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> This is so painful to read...I feel like my wife is completely gone from whoever this person is texting me.


Your wife is going into survival mode right now.

Things are not working the way she had hoped.

The balance of power is shifting. 

Let it happen. 

Demonstrate your strength in these difficult times.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Your wife is going into survival mode right now.
> 
> Things are not working the way she had hoped.
> 
> ...


I will, I am not responding to these absolute falsehoods from this person.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I will, I am not responding to these absolute falsehoods from this person.


It's just starting.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "U & I were separated.... Meaning temporarily not together... That thing u want me to write out is for an AFFAIR while the couple is TOGETHER. An affair is something I did not commit & I still didn't have sex, even when I thought we were getting a divorce. Everyone including my mom thinks writing that out is absolutely unnecessary & adding fuel to the fire. I am sitting her telling u I want to work things out & go through therapy. I'm over the other guy & its done. U need to move on from this affair thing that I didn't even do. It scares me how loosely u throw the word around...Does this mean if I go to have drinks again with co-workers u will consider it "cheating"?
> 
> ...


Blame-shifting, lying, cheating, and not remorseful. 

You gotta 180 from this. I would block her number from your cell phone....you don't need this chit, and it's not making it possible for you to even start healing. You can't move on because she wants you there waiting for her to come around...that's why you've been plan "b" since this chit started with the OM.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I will, I am not responding to these absolute falsehoods from this person.


That is the right attitude.

Would you really want to get back together with someone that shifts blame back onto you?

That lies?

That tells half truths in order to save face?

That rewrites your marriage in order to justify her cheating?

That is who she is now. You see it. Do not fall for it.

Actions speak much louder than her words. 

And there has been no action.

HM64


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Do you guys think I should just go get the rest of my stuff from her VVhore house tonight? I just feel like ending it...its too painful to think about what happened...maybe therapy would help us like she says but I am out of juice now emotionally.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

I would let things cool down and go when she isn't there, if possible. If you really want to go, bring a buddy, so she'll have to act at least moderately sane.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Do you guys think I should just go get the rest of my stuff from her VVhore house tonight? I just feel like ending it...its too painful to think about what happened...maybe therapy would help us like she says but I am out of juice now emotionally.


Don't do anything.

You're not ready.

Emotions running way too high.

You'll merely invite an additional barrage of texts.

You don't need it.

Go out with friends instead.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Don't do anything.
> 
> You're not ready.
> 
> ...


Yeah no doubt. It has been pretty silent since that last big text she sent me. Going to go grilling with a couple friends tonight instead and watch some Seinfeld...


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Sandman I want you to take a breath you are getting great advice all you have to do is follow it. Leave your phone at home or if you are on call give it to a friend so that if work calls he can get it to you. Stop looking at her texts and thinking about them. This only drains you. This event is going to change you but when you come out the other side you are going to be so much MORE than you are now. You will be version 2.0. LOL. We got your back brother.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Sandman I want you to take a breath you are getting great advice all you have to do is follow it. Leave your phone at home or if you are on call give it to a friend so that if work calls he can get it to you. Stop looking at her texts and thinking about them. This only drains you. This event is going to change you but when you come out the other side you are going to be so much MORE than you are now. You will be version 2.0. LOL. We got your back brother.


Thanks CEL. The advice seems pretty simple to follow right now....ignore her...that's it. I am going to fill out the divorce papers today and tomorrow and just keep ignoring her. Then on Saturday I will go over with my friend and his truck to get the rest of my stuff and I will give her the papers, then leave. I really don't even want her to talk anymore at this point, I just want it over.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks CEL. The advice seems pretty simple to follow right now....ignore her...that's it. I am going to fill out the divorce papers today and tomorrow and just keep ignoring her. Then on Saturday I will go over with my friend and his truck to get the rest of my stuff and I will give her the papers, then leave. I really don't even want her to talk anymore at this point, I just want it over.


YES 100% YES this is EXACTLY what you do. Damn you the man do I hear some clanking when you walk....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks CEL. The advice seems pretty simple to follow right now....ignore her...that's it. I am going to fill out the divorce papers today and tomorrow and just keep ignoring her. Then on Saturday I will go over with my friend and his truck to get the rest of my stuff and I will give her the papers, then leave. I really don't even want her to talk anymore at this point, I just want it over.


Yes:smthumbup::smthumbup: You will recover from this!


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

How are you holding up, dude?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Last night was interesting. I'm sure you are all going to want to slap me... possibly.

Anyways I was at home last night with my two friends I am living with. Sitting in my room filling out the divorce papers and eating some broccoli.

The doorbell rings. Its my wife. She comes in with a balloon, and a card and she is crying.

She says she cant believe what she texted me earlier that day after she read it. She said she realizes what she did was so incredibly terrible and begged me on her knees if there was any chance I could ever take her back. She said she literally cannot say anything for what she has done because there are no words to describe or prove how sorry she truly is for everything that has happened. She said she admits to being unfaithful, she admits to blame shifting everything onto me because she felt so defensive and when I didn't respond to her texts it made her realize that I was in fact her man and it made her realize I was fine with leaving her (or something like that) and something snapped in her. She said she didn't want to do the letter because she doesn't know where he lives and she doesn't want anything to do with him at all, she doesn't want to even write his name as it makes her sick to her stomach, she doesn't want to look up his address (because he moved recently I guess). She said she doesn't want to think about him anymore at all, she is over him completely (seems quick to me) and looking up his address and writing this letter to him will put her back in a place she doesn't want to go. I really got the feeling from her that she felt incredibly disgusted at what she did with this guy to the point where she is not comfortable doing anything that concerns him. This still concerns me a little but the other stuff she said was convincing enough that I am willing to see what happens here.

She said she had talked with her friend (the one I live with) earlier that day, after she texted me all that horrible crap and her friend helped her think about things. I found out later from her friend, that she told my wife "you had better fvcking snap out of whatever fog you are in, you are going to lose him today, permanently. This is not a joke anymore if you don't want him fine but you better be prepared then to lose him forever, because I talked with him today and I can tell he is done with you, this great guy who has stood by your side for 12 years that has done nothing wrong is about to leave you."

Anyways my wife said that after she got off the phone with her friend that she read the texts she sent me again and she just lost complete control of herself and fell to the ground in the bathroom crying asking herself "what have I done?".

I sat next to her while she was telling me all this and read her card, it was very sweet. It was very mature (surprisingly). She admitted to everything and took responsibility. She said she wants to spend the rest of her life making it up to me and she just hopes its not too late for me to accept her back. She said she knows what she did was absolutely horrible as well as how she treated me.

The card contained my apartment key, a picture of her and I from years ago and a date night coupon (lol), It was all very sweet. She got on her knees and started balling again while I was reading it and she asked me if I could ever take her back after this.

I sat there reading the card and thinking about everything. I told her out right, you better promise me that the flip flopping is done. If you flip flop again, I am walking. She said she promised to god, on her mom, dad on everything.

I told her I would move back in and see how things go. I told her I am still hurt but we can work on it and that her coming over and actually admitting to everything and taking responsibility was a huge thing for me. She basically jumped on me and would not stop kissing me for about an 10 minutes while crying...it was very messy hah.

So it all felt pretty good. However, the letter. Part of me understands where she is coming from on this one. Part of me doesn't care and wants her to do it still. However she seems to be truly sorry for everything and doesn't want to revisit those thoughts. Rest assured we agreed we will talk about this further in therapy together. I am hoping the therapist can help her see my point of view on that.

So everything looks/feels pretty good now but part of me is still dead from this. I have a HUGE wall up right now and though I am moving in, I feel better about myself to the point where I am not kissing her ass anymore. I feel like I am the one in control and I will continue to work on myself after I move in. I know now that I can handle a lot and am stronger than I ever thought I was. I know that I have great friends in real life and on this site that will be there for me and that combined with the self confidence I am getting every day from getting in shape, even if things don't work out with her, I feel I will be fine.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She has to send the letter.

All of this foolishness is designed to deflect it.

She works with the bastard.

Go with her to work and have her hand it to him.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> She has to send the letter.
> 
> All of this foolishness is designed to deflect it.
> 
> ...


I will bring that option up to her.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I will bring that option up to her.


No, you will tell her that's what WILL happen BEFORE anything happens between the two of you.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She has to send the letter.
> 
> All of this foolishness is designed to deflect it.
> 
> ...



:iagree:

Conrad beat me to it.

She must send the letter.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

I was reading your long post and waiting for the part where you said to her "The part about you not wanting to send the letter because it will put you in a bad place that you don't want to go is not only ridiculous but unacceptable and is just more of your continued selfishness"

I'm not all that surprised that it never happened.

I won't slap you, no worries. But I did shake my head slowly from side to side a few times and maybe had a pained expression on my face for a moment.

What it comes down to is that she cheated on you, disrespected you, lied to you and even if she's being honest about not wanting to 'go back to that bad place', she's still selfishly thinking about what SHE wants and disregarding the one request you've made that you clearly felt was very important to you. She said no, you buckled (again), and nothing has been accomplished other than she knows she can continue to manipulate you and disregard your feelings in favor of her own and that yeah, maybe you're starting to grow a backbone and it's possible that the next time she cheats on you it might be the last.

Note that I am not providing any advice, as promised. Just observing.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I will bring that option up to her.


Sad this is NOT an option! Now about her job, she better be looking for another one imo.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> I will bring that option up to her.


Dislike


This is not an option.

You can tell we know what we are talking about.

She's played your emotions.

Now is the time to show that her attempts to play on your emotions are futile. Because you are a rock.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

GutPunch said:


> Dislike
> 
> 
> This is not an option.
> ...


Sadman,

She told you she could see having HIS children and not yours.

She put her lips (and other parts of her) around his penis.

I think she's out of "options" on this one.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sad did you notice everytime you show strength and resolve she comes running back to you? I would go to her workplace after she writes it and I would personally hand it to him. I wish you luck but you will have to be the enforcer for quite awhile sorry.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Remember actions not words I mean heck I could tell you a bunch of sweet nothings. If she is serious she has to look for another job.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

More action, less talking.

She can say she's sorry all she wants. It means nothing, if she doesn't send the letter and find a new job.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tom67 said:


> Sad did you notice everytime you show strength and resolve she comes running back to you? I would go to her workplace after she writes it and I would personally hand it to him. I wish you luck but you will have to be the enforcer for quite awhile sorry.


She's damned lucky you're not demanding she quit her job.

If she refuses to send the letter, that's the next step.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

im going to talk to her tonight before I moving back in about this. Thanks guys, I will update you on what happens.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Sandman well first off I think you are AMAZING you handled that with some real style. Let me get right down to the nitty gritty with the rest tho.

1. The No Contact letter is non negotiable she did have an EA with the guy while you were in the house. So it was an affair. As long as she writes it you can make sure he gets it. Tell her you will meet him after work if necessary, place it on his car, find his address. Whatever you can do it. Make it known this is not about her it is about YOU and what YOU need.

2. I hate to say this but she slept with him. I want you to be honest with yourself she went over there and she was really infatuated with him so they did sleep together. I would be honest with her and let her know that she needs to come up with a timeline on how her affair developed and what really went on and that you will be talking to the guy to verify. Let her know you can handle the infidelity but the continued lies have to stop otherwise you are gone. She has to write this down so that you can have it to go back to as you have questions. You want to rug sweep it now and are really questioning whether you want to know I can show you threads that have people who do the same thing and are back on her 12 or even 20 years later. You have to KNOW what you are forgiving. I cannot stress this enough.

3. You and her both need to read some books in this order
Not Just Friends "talks about EA's and how they start and why they are affairs"
Surviving an Affair "goes into details on how to recover and the affects of both an EA and a PA"
His Needs Her Needs "how to identify the needs of your spouse and how to talk in a relationship"
Love Busters "the behaviors that kill love in a marriage"
5 Steps to Romantic Love "workbook that goes with the above two"

I can let you borrow His Needs and Love Busters if you have a kindle account just PM me.

4. MC for both of you find one that specializes in infidelity because you are going to need it.

5. As you move through this the books are going to teach you a lot of good behaviors like transparency, enthusiastic agreement, recreational time, undivided attention time. All these are great and YOU NEED them in your marriage. 
Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Questions

1. Does your spouse read?

2. When you find out she had sex with him is it a deal breaker?


We are hear for you and if you ever need to talk to someone "PM me and I will send you my digits"


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Good luck tonight cool calm dispassionate and no wavering you are worth it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wtf2012 (Oct 22, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> She just texted me:
> 
> "U & I were separated.... Meaning temporarily not together... That thing u want me to write out is for an AFFAIR while the couple is TOGETHER. An affair is something I did not commit & I still didn't have sex, even when I thought we were getting a divorce. Everyone including my mom thinks writing that out is absolutely unnecessary & adding fuel to the fire. I am sitting her telling u I want to work things out & go through therapy. I'm over the other guy & its done. U need to move on from this affair thing that I didn't even do. It scares me how loosely u throw the word around...Does this mean if I go to have drinks again with co-workers u will consider it "cheating"?
> 
> ...


Hate to say this, but the bolded part tells you where you stand. It may not be true, but right now it is her reality. Currently, in her mind she was never that into you. Probably rewriting marital history, and I think it is a huge red flag. 

Machiavelli has a great line about how when women want crazy s3x with POSOM they call it passion. It is in her mind right now that she will probably never have that passion with you. You will always be plan B to her fantasy. 

Crocodile tears.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

How was the weekend Sad?


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

How are you holding up, Dude?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Things went "ok". She offered for me to call the other guy to prove it was over. She showed me the texts she sent to him and that he sent to her. Yeah it's over lol It was more harsh than the letter.

She said she knows she doesn't love him at all and she cant live without me. She gave me the honest play by play of what happened the night she thought we are 100% getting divorced. They actually did not have sex, I know it sounds ridiculous but they didn't, it actually got super awkward I guess, they had some heavy petting and she was about to go further (oral) but she kissed his penis a couple times (yes just kissed), he put his hand on her vagina and started to push his finger in her and that's when she told him "no" and started crying. He got pissed and started pressuring her. She got really turned off and he left. She said the next three days she cried her eyes out because she felt like trash for what she had done.

Anyways, the second night I am home we have a date night, go to a movie and cuddle, it gets intimate that night, I have not been with my wife for slightly over 2 months so I am horny of course. So we start doing it. It was too soon obviously, it was dark, couldn't see anything, a lot of pressure on me, it ended quick and bad, she went to the bathroom and cried, while I was just pissed that pressured her already the second day after moving back in. She came back to bed and we talked a bit. She said she just doesn't feel like SHE actually wants to have sex with me. I asked her if its because of the weight I have put on and she said yes. She said she just got horny talking with the other guy and it felt really good to feel those kinds of intense physical attraction emotions. She said "but I want to feel them for the person I love". I asked her "do you think me losing weight is honestly going to make you more attracted to me physically?" She said "I am willing to bet on it, I think it would be real tragic if you lost a ton of weight and got in shape and I still didn't feel attracted to you physically...but I guess I would just have to live without those feelings" then she started crying a little.

She then reiterated that she knows this is going to be hard on both of us, me more than her. She said she loves me so much and that she feels like she awoke from something (makes me wonder if this is that "fog" everyone talks about with affairs). She said she wants to work on things and we scheduled our marriage counseling session for next Tuesday the 30th.

I am hoping the counselor can help us.

So I am happy to be back, my wife is very happy I am back and excited at how much weight I have lost. I am just depressed that it may take over a year to lose all the weight and during that entire time my wife may not be interested in me at all physically. I am hoping the counselor can help bridge us together somehow as I feel like intimacy and emotional connection must be one of their more common issues they deal with.

I can tell my wife is very committed now and is very sorry for what she has done. We are just missing that physical connection. I can definitely see my weight being a key factor in that. We have started working out together as well. We worked out together the other night and she got to see the full routine I go through now. She told me later that night "wow, I have never seen you work out like that before, was like a different person" she also keeps telling me how good I look (which is strange to me since she doesn't find me attractive right now....maybe she should just say "you don't look as terrible" lol. sorry low self esteem came out a bit there.

So my plan is to just work on myself, masturbate a lot so I don't pressure her for sex all the time and make her uncomfortable. However, I am giving myself an internal time limit on this, if after 6 months she has made no changes towards me, this is with therapy and me still losing weight, then I think I might call it quits. I think six months is a good amount of time for some sort of progress to be made.

I am just depressed still and kind of skeptical that therapy can reconnect two people intimately and emotionally. However I guess that's what they say they do so we will see. The last couple days have been very nice, we spend time together, smiling, kissing and cuddling while watching movies or going out shopping, going to movies, had a drink one night etc. Its been very nice and she has been very honest about the other guy. For example....we were about to go work out and she stopped and said "so I just want to be honest with you about something, this armband that holds my phone when I am working out, the other guy gave it to me, do you want me to throw it out?" and she started heading for the garbage, I told her yes and that I will buy her a new one (which I did the next day).

It was strange to hear her basically say that it would be tragic if I lose a bunch of weight and get in shape and she still is not attracted to me physically but that she would live without it. She told me that her love for me is far more important than the physical attraction emotions she felt for this other guy. She basically said she would live unhappily with me if she still doesn't feel it with me....I was thinking to myself when she said that "yeah right....I will drop you like a bad habit if I get in shape and you still are not interested physically" lol.

We had a long talk that day about everything and I was able to get a lot off my chest as she could tell there was something wrong with me and kept asking if I am ok. 

Now I am still kinda split emotionally, I am worried, emasculated, happy, depressed, excited for the future. I have no idea what the future holds for me at this point. I just know that my wife is back to her old self again but we have major issues that I am not sure can be fixed. My wife says she is in love with me and really wants to work on things so that is a good thing. Like I said, I have set an internal time limit on this situation where if there is no improvements I will be leaving the marriage. 

I will keep you guys updated as much as I can with stuff that happens but might not be too much action now since there is less drama....at least until the therapy starts.

Thanks all.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks Conrad, reading all of those now.

My plan is to just do my own thing and build up my self esteem which I need and am excited for since I have been losing weight.

I made plans to go have some drinks with my buddy after I work out tomorrow and will continue to do stuff like that without her.

I am really working on loving myself right now and really coming to terms with WHO I AM as a person, by myself, not a married person but just by myself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Conrad, reading all of those now.
> 
> My plan is to just do my own thing and build up my self esteem which I need and am excited for since I have been losing weight.
> 
> ...


Brother,

Work on all those things, but keep this in mind.

After all this time, she's still upset by an advance by you?

Get to 50,000 feet and watch her reactions and yours.

Try to get a line on just what it is she's doing there.

What is her purpose?

What does she value?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brother,
> 
> Work on all those things, but keep this in mind.
> 
> ...



She said she was more upset that she just cant get as excited as I am about sex, she cant get to that same place emotionally.

When you say "Get to 50,000 feet and watch her reactions and yours.

Try to get a line on just what it is she's doing there."

Are you saying to take a step back and watch what she does? Sorry a little confused by that statement.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brother,
> 
> Work on all those things, but keep this in mind.
> 
> ...


Or are you saying keep working on myself and then see what she does? If so, then that's the plan right now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> She said she was more upset that she just cant get as excited as I am about sex, she cant get to that same place emotionally.
> 
> When you say "Get to 50,000 feet and watch her reactions and yours.
> 
> ...


I'm saying the following:

Your wife and you weren't intimate for 2 months.

You had your first time with her and she wasn't into it.

What else isn't she into?

Clearly things didn't work with posOM, so it's possible she's headed back just for security.

Keep your wits about you.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I'm saying the following:
> 
> Your wife and you weren't intimate for 2 months.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree that what you say above is a possibility. But isn't there a point where I just have to say "ok lets try this one last time" ? Everything she has done in this reconcile process so far the past few days is good and needed to happen (honesty, transparency etc.). 

I don't want to give up because she is not physically attracted to me. Especially since I want to get in shape for myself and she seems excited about my weight loss and has even said it is a major factor for her. I have to be honest here with you guys as well...this was a lot of weight I put on, when we first were together I was still kind of a big, chubby dude at slightly over 200 pounds at 5ft 9inch. Over the years I have gone up to 289 pounds.....89 pounds added...god that's alot, I guess if the tables were turned I would not be physically attracted to my wife either if she gained 89 pounds....

I am not trying to justify other stuff she has done, just more hoping and trusting that losing that weight will either help me get my self esteem back and be proud of myself again and maybe it will also have a good effect on our marriage.

I am definitely keeping my wits about me. I have a HUGE wall up right now and probably will for a long time. 

I will keep you posted!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ask yourself how much of the oral pleasure you got from food substituted for pleasure you weren't getting elsewhere.

Some self-medicate with food

Some with beer

Some with cigarettes

You get the idea.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Hey Sandman I am happy you got to where you ate at also I got some stuff to add.

1. You and your wife don't have the tools to make a great marriage. Kind of like a car you get one at 16 but don't know really how to make it work if it breaks down. You need those tools do some books. 
His Needs Her Needs "most affairs happen because some needs where not being met in the marriage, I am not placing blame but you need to know in a logical manner what her needs are. As much ad she needs to know your."
Love Busters " these are behaviors that cause a withdrawal from marriage these are problems in a marriage"
5 Steps to Romantic Love "workbook goes with the above books for both of you".

Start working on these with your wife and make a BETTER marriage than your last.

2. I work out heavy and also work with a national level competitive bodybuilder. So how about you go through your routine and your diet. Let's start getting you maximum results if you don't feel comfortable you can PM me.

You are doing good the problem is that one if her emotional needs is Physical Attractiveness you let this go and stopped meeting it. I am sure she stopped meeting some of yours as well. In the books you will realize what she wants and needs and how to fulfill them. Also it gives you steps on how to talk about problems and what binds marriages together. I would live to continue a dialogue with you once you start getting into them. 

You can have a better marriage with those books and some workout support you are going to be well on your way to a wonderful marriage. Don't forget we still got your back.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Losing the weight certainly won't be a tragedy even if things don't work out between you and the wife.

Lose the weight for yourself, not to try to win back her attraction.

It's the same goal, but a totally different attitude.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Losing the weight certainly won't be a tragedy even if things don't work out between you and the wife.
> 
> Lose the weight for yourself, not to try to win back her attraction.
> 
> It's the same goal, but a totally different attitude.


Yeah I agree and that's how I feel. I feel like I am tired of having sh!t self esteem to the point where I allow any woman to do whatever the hell she wants to me so long as she will stay with me and love me. Its pathetic and about to stop. I also think that doing so is also a key piece of the puzzle that has been missing from our marriage for a very long time and maybe since the beginning since I was heavy even then. So doing this might kill two birds with one stone.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Sandman,

Re. the diet - I've had good results with the Paleo diet...check it out and see what you think. There's lots of online resources to start with as well as library books you can check out.

If it hasn't been suggested already read Athol Kays two books MMSL and Mindful Attraction. Well worth the price of admission.

Good Luck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah I agree and that's how I feel. I feel like I am tired of having sh!t self esteem to the point where I allow any woman to do whatever the hell she wants to me so long as she will stay with me and love me. Its pathetic and about to stop. I also think that doing so is also a key piece of the puzzle that has been missing from our marriage for a very long time and maybe since the beginning since I was heavy even then. So doing this might kill two birds with one stone.


Are you continuing in IC?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks Iver I have read both actually  I will check out that diet but so far my diet and workout plan I am on have had amazing results.

Conrad: yeah I actually have my next session today after work.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Thanks Iver I have read both actually  I will check out that diet but so far my diet and workout plan I am on have had amazing results.
> 
> Conrad: yeah I actually have my next session today after work.


We'll need a full report.

Shoot us, we care.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> We'll need a full report.
> 
> Shoot us, we care.


I am honestly not too impressed with both therapists I have seen now. I have seen the guy twice now, today will be my 3rd with him. He is nice but he sort of just sits there and listens to me and then kind of repeats what I said.

He has not really offered any way of dealing with anything. Honestly I am not quite sure what to ask for help on. I went with "I need to get some self esteem" I told him about the entire situation and he understood. The only thing he recommended was something similar to what I have already done and read in the book "Love yourself like your life depended on it" I think it was called, where you tell yourself that you love yourself in the mirror each day for 5 minutes while staring into your left eye.

He recommended I put up sticky notes of good things about myself on the mirror and keep adding to it each day. My wife may think that is a little weird though...

I am hoping he has something valuable to add today.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I am honestly not too impressed with both therapists I have seen now. I have seen the guy twice now, today will be my 3rd with him. He is nice but he sort of just sits there and listens to me and then kind of repeats what I said.
> 
> He has not really offered any way of dealing with anything. Honestly I am not quite sure what to ask for help on. I went with "I need to get some self esteem" I told him about the entire situation and he understood. The only thing he recommended was something similar to what I have already done and read in the book "Love yourself like your life depended on it" I think it was called, where you tell yourself that you love yourself in the mirror each day for 5 minutes while staring into your left eye.
> 
> ...


If he doesn't challenge you, it's time to shop for a new one.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If he doesn't challenge you, it's time to shop for a new one.


Yep, if something doesn't happen today, I am calling and getting a new one.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

What has been your program diet and exercise-wise? I ask because I am also guilty of medicating with food. That combined with a job that keeps me tied to a desk 12 hours a day has not been good for my waistline...


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> What has been your program diet and exercise-wise? I ask because I am also guilty of medicating with food. That combined with a job that keeps me tied to a desk 12 hours a day has not been good for my waistline...


Ok this is what I did each day that has lost me 35 pounds so far. I like it because its easy for me. I have started working out much longer now though, around an hour and a half about 4 days a week or more.

I always have a box of those Quaker oats oatmeal bags at work. Every morning I eat one of those in a bowl or I eat watermelon. 

For lunch I eat a healthy choice soup. Doesn't matter what flavor, around 200 cals total for lunch.

I get off work and then I go and work out for 30 m. (now an hour and a half) on a high intensity circuit training. So basically its 30 minutes, one minute I am on a weight machine, then a 30 second break, the next minute is cardio, then 30 second break the next minute a weight machine, 30 break, etc. etc. until 30 minutes is up...this just destroys me as it is just constant.

I get home from working out and I cook baked fish and seasoned broccoli for dinner, around 440 cals total for dinner.

I also snack on fruit throughout the day.

I really like steamed broccoli so I get the green giant broccoli Tuscan flavor and I eat the entire bag. Its like 80 cals total but its so much food plus the two little flays of fish, I am STUFFED. I make sure to get the frozen fish that you don't have to de-thaw either. So basically the broccoli can just be heated up in the microwave and the fish bakes for 24 minutes or so in the even.

Its very quick. I like it as well but then again, I love fish and vegatables.

On the weekends I make stir fry, just made it this last weekend. I loved it, my wife loved it. I just get the frozen bags of stir fry veggies, and a pack of stir fry chicken already pre cut up, then just add a bit of stir fry sauce. Super low cal meal as well.

I am trying to eat foods that are big in mass but low in cals. So far it has been working. 

Oh...I also drink a glass of protein powder right when I get home from the gym.

Let me know if you have any specific questions. I know it looks like I am not eating much...and maybe I am not but I don't feel starved at all.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I also got two dumbells at home so when I am bored just sitting I will curl, shrug, etc. those. They are 30 lbs dumbells.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Drink lots of water.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah sorry forgot to mention that, I no longer drink anything but water (and a glass of whey protein). I actually don't even remember the last time I had a soda of any kind or fruit juice. I keep watrer in a jug in the fridge because I noticed if it in there nice and cold I will drink the living crap out of it. I then take a bottle to work as well.

I still do have the occasional beer or alcoholic drink but its maybe twice a month so that doesn't matter.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I like your progress Sad.

You keep the focus and working hard on you.

Let whatever happen relationship wise.

Either way you will be in a good place.

Remember No More Mr. Nice Guy!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> I like your progress Sad.
> 
> You keep the focus and working hard on you.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's what I am trying Gut, things are just strange for me around the house now. Like I just don't know how to act around her right now. 

So far my idea is that since she is not in to me that I should not really try to initiate anything. Just do my own thing, work on myself and if she starts coming around awesome, if after 6 months she doesn't then screw it.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah that's what I am trying Gut, things are just strange for me around the house now. Like I just don't know how to act around her right now.
> 
> So far my idea is that since she is not in to me that I should not really try to initiate anything. Just do my own thing, work on myself and if she starts coming around awesome, if after 6 months she doesn't then screw it.


Awesome plan! After about three months of lifting weights and dieting take her somewhere. Mini vacation....just the two of you. Let the intimacy come to you. When it does, this is your cue to take charge.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks, Dude! Some good food for thought... ha. I really have to get my act together. Ever since I started at this firm, the weight has been creeping up on me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Hey Sandman I am happy you got to where you ate at also I got some stuff to add.
> 
> 1. You and your wife don't have the tools to make a great marriage. Kind of like a car you get one at 16 but don't know really how to make it work if it breaks down. You need those tools do some books.
> His Needs Her Needs "most affairs happen because some needs where not being met in the marriage, I am not placing blame but you need to know in a logical manner what her needs are. As much ad she needs to know your."
> ...


Thanks Cel, I will look into those along with our therapy hopefully we can read them. If you have any pointers for losing fat other than what I have done let me know.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Well even if you did not respond to my post I am going to comment on your work outs...LOL. Looks like you are doing good but I do have some things for you to consider and think about. All of my suggestions are only that suggestions take what you can use and leave the rest.



sadman79 said:


> Ok this is what I did each day that has lost me 35 pounds so far. I like it because its easy for me. I have started working out much longer now though, around an hour and a half about 4 days a week or more.


Thats a good schedule so if you can keep that up you should be good. But given that much working out you should considers some supplementation as well as being open to upping your workout every few weeks. Be aware that after 3 months you will want to significantly change up your workout otherwise your body will adapt and you will plateau.



sadman79 said:


> I always have a box of those Quaker oats oatmeal bags at work. Every morning I eat one of those in a bowl or I eat watermelon.
> 
> For lunch I eat a healthy choice soup. Doesn't matter what flavor, around 200 cals total for lunch.
> 
> ...


Okay so your eating habits are going to account for 80% of reaching your goals so we are going to focus on 3 important things about eating for weight lifting. These three components are the essential ones for all weightlifting goals whether they be bulking, creating lean muscle, losing weight or getting ripped with 7% percent body fat. However the ratio that you will focus on them reflects your goals.

1. Protein you want 1 gram of protein per pound of your goal weight. Your body will not be able to process that much protein but as you go your body will adapt and start being able to use more and more of it. Making your body a more efficient muscle building machine. If you fail to get your necessary protein than the weight you are losing can easily be your lean muscle mass. What happens is that you lose weight but as you slack off on your eating habits you gain it back faster than before because you still have a lot of fat with less muscle mass. Muscle mass is what keeps the pounds off and raises your metabolism. Unfortunately this is why crash diets are a vicious cycle. Watching your protein intake will prevent you from losing your gain and will insure that you keep your lean muscle mass.

2. Caloric intake now if you are trying to lose weight you want to keep this low but not so low that you feel like you cannot work out. I would say around 1300 to 2000 is good go lower than that and you will not perform to you optimum level and higher than that and you are are in the range of building mass and muscle not losing weight. A great app is myfitnesspal it will keep track of your food and give you an accurate count for the day you also get to share with friends so you get the necessary support.

3. Carbohydrates now this includes that oat meal and those fruits frankly unless it is after a workout you should never have anything with the name oat in it. After a work out your body can actually use that mass of carbohydrates so you will not put on weight at any other time you are just putting on pounds by eating them. Same goes with the fruit the sugar converts right over and just adds to your problems. If you have to chose then go with the fruit but you should look here Jump Starting Weight Loss – Weight Loss Program | Atkins Official Site Look at the vegetable and substitute it for those fruits. With working out you are ripping your body of most vitamins the vegetable will help put them back and they will not add to your problems.

Now lets talk about what you should be eating you seem really concerned with calories and that is fine but you may be going to extreme with that. I would recommend you branch out you can do 1 pound of ground meat a day or even 2 chicken breast both are low in calories and they will give you 80 to 90 grams of protein. You can add taco seasoning to the meat or barbecue sauce if you want it will some calories but don't worry as the protein is the thing to watch. Good meals for the weekend are taco salad, hamburger or chicken breast fish is great as the oil in the fish will help with recovery but overall the protein profile is going to be different so you want a mix. You can add any vegetable you want from that table to supplement but eat the meat first your body HAS to have that protein that should always be your focus in meal



sadman79 said:


> Oh...I also drink a glass of protein powder right when I get home from the gym.
> 
> Let me know if you have any specific questions. I know it looks like I am not eating much...and maybe I am not but I don't feel starved at all.


Okay so you got a shake after the workout that is good you also need a meal something heavy in protein with a good mix of carbohydrates not a lot but 25 or so as long as you are with in an hour threshold should do you. Now I use this protein shake as it has 50 grams of protein with only 250 calories only one other drink will give you that much protein for that little calories. Amazon.com: ABB Performance Protein Shake, 50 Gram, Milk Chocolate 14.5 oz (429 ml): Health & Personal Care now I have one of these in the morning and one at night along with a good plan for the day "hamburger or chicken" I get about 180 to 190 grams per day a little more than I need but good nonetheless.

Lets also look at your supplementation you need a good multivitamin as with a good workout you are ripping those vitamins out of your body. Regular multivitamins will not help as they are mostly for people with sedentary life styles. Try this one out Amazon.com: Universal Nutrition Animal Pak Sports Nutrition Supplement, 44-Count: Health & Personal Care you can use only one pak but I would recommend if you want to get the most you do what is suggested and use two packets this means you will need two cans a month. 

So that should do it any questions? Like I said all this is suggestions but I work with pro weightlifters and certified cross fit trainers so I get the benefit of their advice.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Well even if you did not respond to my post I am going to comment on your work outs...LOL. Looks like you are doing good but I do have some things for you to consider and think about. All of my suggestions are only that suggestions take what you can use and leave the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks CEL, just got some of the drinks. Gonna try them out. I am thinking of starting my workout in the morning before work so I can eat my breakfast and have it used efficiently.

I will keep you all updated tomorrow on what happens in therapy tonight.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Well therapy was basically useless again. The guy just said "well you are sounding better and your situation is sounding much better."

gee...thanks..

I told him I need to find a way to deal with the anger inside me. He didn't really give any idea at all.

Anyways the night went well, I worked out came home and took a shower. I was in a bad mood so I did not say much to my wife at all. She asked me "ok, what is wrong?" I told her I had a bad day and didn't want to talk about it.

We watched a movie together and after the movie I went straight to bed, didn't say anything. She turned off all the lights in the place and then came to bed as well and caressed my back for a long while. I woke up later and turned and started caressing her and she immediately got pretty horny so we ended up having sex. 

We sat there and talked for a bit. I told her I noticed she was very horny and asked her what she was thinking about during. She said she is not going to lie, she was fantasizing to get horny but that it felt good. I got a little angry again and told her "well I guess I should call the guy and thank him" and we had a bit of an angry conversation about the other guy, therapy, etc.. She said she wants to be with me 100% and that she doesn't know what else to do to get past this for me. She said she pleaded me to take her back and that she wants to be in this marriage with me and work on things. We went back and forth about many subjects, the letter, the other guy, therapy and a lot of it was pretty angry conversation. I also told her from now on, keep comments like "just thinking about or when I would talk to this guy I would get horny and wet" to herself. She said she was just being honest about how strong the physical attraction was. I told her yes and you can discuss that with your personal therapist but I do not need or want to hear that sh!t ever again. I told her these are very hurtful comments that she can never take back and I will have a hard time ever forgetting so she should keep them to herself when she is around me because I don't want to hear them. Then we started talking through everything, something switched and we were both more positive and hopeful about our marriage.

She talked about how much she loved me to death and that she really needs therapy to get through some stuff in her head and to get this other guy out of her head when we are being intimate. I told her earlier when the conversation was heated, in a pissed of way "do you really think I am going to live up to your fantasies?" She said no "but those are fantasies honey, I just want to be physically attracted to my husband." and then she said "I can tell you have been working extremely hard on yourself and I love you for that."

She said how excited she was that I am losing weight and at the same time she understand it is going to take time. We talked and laughed like we did before any of this happened and it felt really good. She even started crying a little and said "I love you so much, I miss this, I miss how comfortable we are with each other, I miss how much fun we have just talking and being with each other."

We talked and joked for another hour or so about random non-relationship stuff and what started as a heated angry night turned out very loving and happy night.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>I noticed she was very horny and asked her what she was thinking about during. She said she is not going to lie, she was fantasizing to get horny but that it felt good. I got a little angry again and told her "well I guess I should call the guy and thank him" and we had a bit of an angry conversation about the other guy, therapy, etc..<<

Why in the world are you initiating conversations like that?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> >>I noticed she was very horny and asked her what she was thinking about during. She said she is not going to lie, she was fantasizing to get horny but that it felt good. I got a little angry again and told her "well I guess I should call the guy and thank him" and we had a bit of an angry conversation about the other guy, therapy, etc..<<
> 
> Why in the world are you initiating conversations like that?


I didn't actually ask her what she was thinking. I told her that she seemed very horny tonight, sorry for the confusion, then she told me that rest.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I initiated that because it was just strange and I had a feeling she was fantasizing, but you are probably right, should not have even brought it up, but oh well, the night turned out very well.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

she is planning on going out with her friend (the one I lived with during all this) tonight after work. I am going to go have a drink with my friend and have some fun.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I initiated that because it was just strange and I had a feeling she was fantasizing, but you are probably right, should not have even brought it up, but oh well, the night turned out very well.


Stop doing things like that.

It's the quintessential needy approval-seeking niceguy.

You got laid.

You took care of your needs.

Who cares?

That's the attitude you need to have.

You can take or leave her.

That sort of discussion is a perfect way to put her in the position to elephant stomp you.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Stop doing things like that.
> 
> It's the quintessential needy approval-seeking niceguy.
> 
> ...



yeah you are right. Was just an emotional night. I am not going to bring that sort of thing up again with her ever.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sad, if you are going to ask the questions, then you have to be prepared for the answers. Flying off the handle when she tells you these things that YOU asked for is only going to make her afraid to be honest with you. The last thing you want is for her to start lying by omission. 

Personally I find it disgusting that she is still turned on by thoughts of the other man, and tells you that she is not attracted to you. Oh but she "loves you to death"...sorry but that doesnt sit right with me. She wants you for security, and I think that more infidelity is in her future if she is not sexually attracted to you. (which is HER issue, not YOURS, you are a great guy)


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Sad, if you are going to ask the questions, then you have to be prepared for the answers. Flying off the handle when she tells you these things that YOU asked for is only going to make her afraid to be honest with you. The last thing you want is for her to start lying by omission.
> 
> Personally I find it disgusting that she is still turned on by thoughts of the other man, and tells you that she is not attracted to you. Oh but she "loves you to death"...sorry but that doesnt sit right with me. She wants you for security, and I think that more infidelity is in her future if she is not sexually attracted to you. (which is HER issue, not YOURS, you are a great guy)


Thanks, what do you recommend I do? move back out and divorce her when she is telling me she is committed and wants to work on things and go to marriage counseling? Yeah I am still angry inside, those words still hurt me just thinking about them. I find it disgusting as well, but what else can I do at this point? She seems very sincere about working things out, I am just afraid nothing will make a difference but I feel like I at least have to try with her one more time.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Since you definitely want to make a go of it, I think the best thing to do is to focus on you. Keep improving yourself and try to uncouple your happiness and sense of well-being from your wife. Maybe her attraction will come back, maybe it won't. But once you find an internal source of validation and happiness, if the marriage flounders again, you will be much better equipped to deal with moving on.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

BK23 said:


> Since you definitely want to make a go of it, I think the best thing to do is to focus on you. Keep improving yourself and try to uncouple your happiness and sense of well-being from your wife. Maybe her attraction will come back, maybe it won't. But once you find an internal source of validation and happiness, if the marriage flounders again, you will be much better equipped to deal with moving on.


Yeah that's the plan. Like just a few minutes ago my wife texted me saying she is going to hang out with her girlfriend after work on Friday when she gets off at 1 am she said they are going to have a drink at the bar and hopes that's ok. bars close at 2 am here so I texted back and said "ok cool, so you will be home around 2 am then, if so I will wait up so we can chill out together?" she texted back "I don't know what time. Sometimes we go eat at the Frying Pan once the bars close. If u are still up sure tho "

I texted back "Never mind then....have fun" then she texted me "why don't u hang out with (my friend I was living with) on fri?"

That just makes me angry...its like our marriage has been through a terrible ordeal and trust has been broken and she is already going out to the bar with her single, promiscuous friend and then hang out afterwards for who knows how long all the while not invited me and then placating me by telling me to hang out with a friend of mine at 2am in the morn. What a great trust building exercise she is doing....Christ....

I don't even know what to say back besides "isn't it a little soon to be going out to the bar (even if it is only for an hour) and where ever afterwards with your single friend without inviting me after what we have been through? This is not a good way to build trust at all..."


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I mean I know I could be over reacting a bit on this but it just seems strange that she doesn't see anything wrong with it.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Next time, take a lesson from Steven Hyde...



sadman79 said:


> Like just a few minutes ago my wife texted me saying she is going to hang out with her girlfriend after work on Friday when she gets off at 1 am she said they are going to have a drink at the bar and hopes that's ok. bars close at 2 am here so I texted back and said...


"That's cool."



sadman79 said:


> she texted back "I don't know what time. Sometimes we go eat at the Frying Pan once the bars close. If u are still up sure tho "
> 
> I texted back...


"Whatever."



sadman79 said:


> then she texted me "why don't u hang out with (my friend I was living with) on fri?"


"That's cool."

Chillax.  You can't control her actions and decisions. You can only control your reaction to them.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Pbartender said:


> Next time, take a lesson from Steven Hyde...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but part of me says that she should know how I feel and that my feelings and opinions need to matter.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah but part of me says that she should know how I feel and that my feelings and opinions need to matter.


And, you feel the urge to explain that to her, don't you?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> ...and that my feelings and opinions need to matter.


To who?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> And, you feel the urge to explain that to her, don't you?


Honestly, I feel the urge to tell her that:

1.) I am not comfortable, at this point, with you going out to the bars without me given what has happened in our marriage recently.
2.) The fact that you don't think anything is wrong with this makes me think you really are not able to see things from my point of view at all and do not understand in the slightest that I need to build trust for you..
3.) The fact you didn't invite me, again makes me think you really are not able to see things from my point of view at all and do not understand in the slightest that I need to build trust for you.

What do you guys think....am I over reacting? Is it just nerves messing with me? Should I go smoke something?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I guess what you are all telling me is it doesn't matter what I feel to her at this point and to just not say anything at all?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Honestly, I feel the urge to tell her that:
> 
> 1.) I am not comfortable, at this point, with you going out to the bars without me given what has happened in our marriage recently.
> 2.) The fact that you don't think anything is wrong with this makes me think you really are not able to see things from my point of view at all and do not understand in the slightest that I need to build trust for you..
> ...


Then, "I am not okay with you going out to the bars without me," is all you need to say.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Why do you avoid conflict? This whole thing is pointless TELL your wife you are not okay with her going out. And when you have sex tell her that if she wants to fantasize about him then that is cool you will just imagine a porn star in HER place. What she said was disrespectful and hurtful I would of grabbed my stuff and left for the night. Have you started those books I recommended?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> Why do you avoid conflict? This whole thing is pointless TELL your wife you are not okay with her going out. And when you have sex tell her that if she wants to fantasize about him then that is cool you will just imagine a porn star in HER place. What she said was disrespectful and hurtful I would of grabbed my stuff and left for the night. Have you started those books I recommended?


Thanks CEL, I have noted down the books but have not had the time yet to go get them. Planning on it beginning of next week.

I told my wife last night that I was not comfortable with her going out with her friend to the bar. She did fight me on it a bit saying it was just for an hour and then they were going to go eat. We did end up having a discussion where she offered that I come out with them to eat. This conversation was strange, she was angry, warned that she was going to sleep on the futon, then went back and said fine she wont go out with her friend and then back to "you are watching my every move like a dog!" to "Wow if you don't trust me this much then we have MAJOR issues" to "I'm sorry I got so defensive and angry, if you don't want me to go, that sucks but I will get over it." She said she 

I realized that she really doesn't give two sh!ts about how I feel in all this. I told her she can go out with her friend and that I am not stopping her, just letting her know how I feel about it. She said something about wanting me to not make her my entire life. She said "You are a HUGE part of my life but you are not my entire life, we need to have time apart as well" Which I agreed. 

Unfortunately for me, her time apart involves going to the bars with a promiscuous single friend of hers. So yeah, things are not good at all I feel.

At this point I am going to pull the 180 on her again. She can go out and do whatever the hell she wants, obviously she doesn't care how I feel. I am going to start going out with co-workers every night as well. I have been turning them down to go get drinks or hang out all night because I was trying to be a responsible husband, but I guess that's just too beta of me.

I am going to just have fun with myself and my friends and co-workers. I am done making plans with my wife, I am done trying to fix things, I cant fix anything obviously. I am just going to act like we are two friends living together that might see each other once in a while. I hope therapy can help us bridge the gap between us right now but I am skeptical. Our first marriage counseling session is next Tuesday the 30th.

I will keep you all informed of what happens.

Thanks!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sadman,

This is a very bad sign.

She had her lips on the penis of another man.

And, she blames you for not "trusting her"


----------



## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

For what it's worth, I think going to bars when you guys are trying to repair your marriage is a bad idea. (especially for her) But, you did agreat job expressing your nneeds, and now the ball is in her court. I would definitely pull a 180 if she decides to go. If she goes, it shows a lack of remorse in my opinion and your right you can't control her. Her wavering in the decision sounds like she wants to test the single waters while you wait at home. It's not fair to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ms. GP said:


> For what it's worth, I think going to bars when you guys are trying to repair your marriage is a bad idea. (especially for her) But, you did agreat job expressing your nneeds, and now the ball is in her court. I would definitely pull a 180 if she decides to go. If she goes, it shows a lack of remorse in my opinion and your right you can't control her. Her wavering in the decision sounds like she wants to test the single waters while you wait at home. It's not fair to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her Plan A rejected her.

She now wants to interview for a new Plan A

As predictable as the sunrise.

(Of course, she wants the security of Plan B during the interview process)


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sadman,
> 
> This is a very bad sign.
> 
> ...


Yeah she did understand eventually last night. She argues that we were separated and she feels horrible about it all. She said she was confused during this time and she thought for sure we were divorcing. She said she feels guilty about it every day now and she wants to help me move past it. I told her that it will take time. She did own up to understanding that it is her fault the trust is gone. I think we have a long hard road ahead of us and a this point I am not sure we will make it. However, I do want to see what happens in marriage counseling next week.

I am just going to stick to the plan of working on my self


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Yeah she did understand eventually last night. She argues that we were separated and she feels horrible about it all. She said she was confused during this time and she thought for sure we were divorcing. She said she feels guilty about it every day now and she wants to help me move past it. I told her that it will take time. She did own up to understanding that it is her fault the trust is gone. I think we have a long hard road ahead of us and a this point I am not sure we will make it. However, I do want to see what happens in marriage counseling next week.
> 
> I am just going to stick to the plan of working on my self


You're still talking way too much to her.

It's a common issue.

Women respond much better to emotional communication.

Explaining why a certain behavior is defiant isn't in that mix.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Her Plan A rejected her.
> 
> She now wants to interview for a new Plan A
> 
> ...


Plan A didn't reject her though, she rejected him in favor of me an our marriage.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Plan A didn't reject her though, she rejected him in favor of me an our marriage.


That's what she says.

Same guy she did everything she could think of to avoid sending a "no contact" letter?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You're still talking way too much to her.
> 
> It's a common issue.
> 
> ...


I agree, she is planning on going out with her friend as I told her it was fine snice it is just for an hour and I was invited. I am planning on the 180 right now then. We can talk about it in counseling guess.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I agree, she is planning on going out with her friend as I told her it was fine snice it is just for an hour and I was invited. I am planning on the 180 right now then. We can talk about it in counseling guess.


You sound pretty down.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You sound pretty down.


man honestly I am down. I am feeling like this is hopeless even though she is telling me she is committed and loves me and wants to try counseling etc. I just feel bad right now.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I am starting to feel like I may not be able to get over what happened. Guess time and therapy will tell.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> I agree, she is planning on going out with her friend as I told her it was fine snice it is just for an hour and I was invited. I am planning on the 180 right now then. We can talk about it in counseling guess.


She knew you would cave.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

From everything you've described, she either has a huge disconnect and lack of empathy, or just doesn't really give a sh!t about how you feel. I don't want to pile on while you are feeling down, but I think going back to her was a mistake. This current "reconciliation" is beginning to sound like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I know you love her, and you two have a ton of history, but you could be so much happier with someone that wants and respects you.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> man honestly I am down. I am feeling like this is hopeless even though she is telling me she is committed and loves me and wants to try counseling etc. I just feel bad right now.


That's likely because what she's telling you is contradicting with how she's treating you.

Keep paying attention to what she _does_, not what she _says_.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> man honestly I am down. I am feeling like this is hopeless even though she is telling me she is committed and loves me and wants to try counseling etc. I just feel bad right now.


Stop listening to what she says.

Watch what she does.

I would invest right now in keylogging software for your computer and voice-activated recorders.

You're in the same house.

These tools will get you what you need to know for sure.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Stop listening to what she says.
> 
> Watch what she does.
> 
> ...


Out of luck there, she doesn't even start her computer anymore. Voice-activated recorders might work if I could plant it on her purse or something.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Out of luck there, she doesn't even start her computer anymore. Voice-activated recorders might work if I could plant it on her purse or something.


Under the seat of her car.

In other places where she expects privacy - and talks on her phone.

Are you in charge of the phone billing account?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Under the seat of her car.
> 
> In other places where she expects privacy - and talks on her phone.
> 
> Are you in charge of the phone billing account?


Nope, we have our own phones now.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Look, I haven't read much of this thread and I am late to the party by posting. I gleaned so far that 1) your wife had an EA that turned into a PA (at least a BJ for her OM), 2) she still has feelings for her OM and 3) her actions indicate she is not sure about reconciling.

Based on this info, I think it's too tepid to tell her "I don't like what you are doing, but it's up to you as to whether you want to go or not". JMHO, but you need to indicate that there will be obvious consequences to her decisions. Regarding the going out to the bars with a toxic friend who is promiscuous and given the fact that your wife has cheated already, she should know that this behavior is obviously caustic to a recovering marriage. "I'd say to her "I do not approve of you going out with this friend because she is a terrible influence on you. If you go out with her, do not expect me to stick around a whole lot longer because it clearly tells me that you go not care for my feelings nor respect. I refuse to stay with a woman that does not respect or love me".


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

sadman79 said:


> Nope, we have our own phones now.


WTF... Dude, if she did this with the express purpose of you not being able to monitor what she is doing, then what other evidence do you need? She does not want you long term and you are clearly her fallback plan until she can find something better or can figure out a way to be with this friend. Sorry to say this, but WAKE UP.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> WTF... Dude, if she did this with the express purpose of you not being able to monitor what she is doing, then what other evidence do you need? She does not want you long term and you are clearly her fallback plan until she can find something better or can figure out a way to be with this friend. Sorry to say this, but WAKE UP.


No, I did this when I thought we were done. Got my own phone.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

The books will help you set up a new way to communicate as well as rules for a good framework for a relationship. One of those rules being that if you go out you do it together. You should be your wife's main recreational companion. The work book is something for both of you and held yo facilitate the kinds if conversations that NEED to happen. 

Did you ever tell her about the girl who wanted to date you? Warm she brings up **** about the OM just say hey how about you get him and I will go for her. Just kidding but don't forget you got options. 

I would do the 180 and once you get the books I would get her on board if she balks then I would continue. You need a marriage PLAN many marriage counselors do not have that and can be a useless as your IC is. You are still dining great just keep standing up for yourself. Oh and if you want me to Liam you the books through Kindle PM me.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> The books will help you set up a new way to communicate as well as rules for a good framework for a relationship. One of those rules being that if you go out you do it together. You should be your wife's main recreational companion. The work book is something for both of you and held yo facilitate the kinds if conversations that NEED to happen.
> 
> Did you ever tell her about the girl who wanted to date you? Warm she brings up **** about the OM just say hey how about you get him and I will go for her. Just kidding but don't forget you got options.
> 
> I would do the 180 and once you get the books I would get her on board if she balks then I would continue. You need a marriage PLAN many marriage counselors do not have that and can be a useless as your IC is. You are still dining great just keep standing up for yourself. Oh and if you want me to Liam you the books through Kindle PM me.


Thanks CEL. I am going to get those books today. I don't have kindle and it doesn't work on my phone so I will just order them.

Yeah she said she wants to go out and do stuff with me mainly but that every once in a while she wants some space to just sit at home without me there to watch some chick flix or to go out with her friends without me, just once in a while, which I think is normal and reasonable in life. I am just really on edge right now. I hope the books will help us. Thanks again.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

It is reasonable to do that just not so soon. I think you are doing all the right things tho and I have my hopes for you. We do all got your back.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I have decided to start keeping a journal of what happens every day and how it makes me feel because the emotions are all over the fkin place.

She came home from work last night right after I got home from working out. No hug, no kiss, just a smile. She showered and we sat down and watched some shows on the TV, some had sex scenes that made me very sad and uncomfortable as they were talking about "chemistry" and "passion" I almost got up and went to bed haha it was very awkward for me.

She didn't cuddle up to me at all last night while watching the TV. She sat on the other couch (we have two couches placed together in front of the big screen). She did grab my hand at one point and said she loves me. We talked and stuff and it went ok. After the show I told her I was going to bed. She said she wanted to go to bed as well. We went to bed and she cuddled up to me for a while until we fell asleep. I woke up later spooning her somehow, so I turned the other way again. Woke up again later she was caressing my head and scratching my back (she knows I love my back being scratched). Fell back asleep, woke up finally to my alarm and hugged her and gave her a kiss on the cheek. She said "I love you" and I said it back and left to get ready and leave for work.

I really lack patience I think and I feel like it will be my downfall. I want her to be more physical with me now. I feel like I have been losing weight, she should be overjoyed and excited (she said she was excited) and initiating things already. But I know that's not true really and that this is going to take time and therapy and even then it might not work out and she may never initiate anything.

I am happy to be back in my apartment with her and talking with her and enjoying each others company again but I still feel, rejected, betrayed, belittled, disrespected and taken for granted when she doesn't physically show me otherwise....maybe I have a problem as well...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

As long as you continue this incessant focus on her, you'll drive yourself crazy.

Every twitch noted.

Must be exhausting.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> As long as you continue this incessant focus on her, you'll drive yourself crazy.
> 
> Every twitch noted.
> 
> Must be exhausting.


Well keeping a journal was something that my therapist recommended. He said to note down how I feel day to day, how certain things she does make me feel, so I can look for a pattern within myself I guess. 

Tonight I am focusing on myself. I am going out with a friend for drinks, then we are going back to his place for more drinks and grilling. Going to get drunk and have a great time. My wife asked me last night what I was doing today and I told her my plans....she seemed almost kind of interested. She said "oh...well maybe we can meet up with you guys later then?" I said sure if we are not passed out by then (she will be going to the bar for an hour with her friend and then to eat for an hour so it will be around 3am when she is done, not sure we will be up that late.)


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> As long as you continue this incessant focus on her, you'll drive yourself crazy.
> 
> Every twitch noted.
> 
> Must be exhausting.


And you are right, it is exhausting. I am really trying to not focus on her but it is really hard to do right now. I am trying though, trying to get out more with friends and go do stuff I normally would not do, all without my wife being there.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> And you are right, it is exhausting. I am really trying to not focus on her but it is really hard to do right now. I am trying though, trying to get out more with friends and go do stuff I normally would not do, all without my wife being there.


Follow your own drummer

She's welcome to follow, if she wishes.

But, she has to ask.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sadman,

Did she ever follow-through on the no contact letter?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sadman,
> 
> Did she ever follow-through on the no contact letter?


No, she showed me the texts she and he exchanged and offered to call the guy and let me talk to him to prove it is over.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> No, she showed me the texts she and he exchanged and offered to call the guy and let me talk to him to prove it is over.


Sigh


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sigh


Agreed, why would you clean up her mess?


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

I didn't call the guy, I saw the texts, its over between them. At this point we are reading through the books CEL recommended (started on His needs, Her needs last night) together every night. It was nice last night, we both read it in bed together and then talked a little about it afterwards. We are going to read a chapter or two a night with each other. Just reading the first two chapters have been a real eye opener for her. She even said afterwards that she was really impressed by the book as the author is spot on accurate with what happened and what she was feeling. So we are going to keep reading them and do the workbook as well.

The past few days she has been kinda distant and not initiating anything physical, no hugs or kisses really. However when I think about it this is what we were like before any of this went down. I brought it up to her a couple days ago that is it just strange she wanted me to take her back and move back home and how sorry she was, and how much she loves me etc. yet once I move back in I just feel like I am working on myself to make myself happy and I am also being supportive and affectionate towards her, I am also trying to make her happy because when you love someone you usually want to make them happy. I asked her - what are you doing to make me happy, what are you doing to work on this marriage? because so far I only see you working out, working on yourself but not wanting to make me happy.

She said she is trying and that's why she believes she needs therapy. She also thinks me losing weight will help a ton as well. She told me again how much she loves me and that she wants to read these books and go to therapy. We also set up a couple date nights a week and I am taking her to a stand up comic place this upcoming weekend. I am starting to realize that before all this happened, her and I didn't do anything...at all. We literally stayed at home 100% of the time, I sat and played video games and ate because I got lazy and comfortable. It feels good that she is reading the books with me and is being honest and impressed by how dead on they are to what happened. 

We have our marriage counseling session tomorrow night and then we are going to go see a movie afterwards. Depending of course if we don't kill each other during that session hah. We made a pact that no matter what happens in therapy that we will come out and hug/kiss and we both realize this is going to be hard and take time.

So I am really focusing on myself right now and getting into shape as I believe that is the core of my own issues. My self esteem is crap and has been since I can remember because I have always been kind of a big guy and I am tired of it. I also think more self esteem and confidence will also be MUCH more attractive to my wife in general and even if it is not, I will feel much better about myself and will have no issues with leaving the marriage at that point if she never comes around.

I will keep you guys updated on what happens tomorrow night in counseling.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Therapy went good I would say, as good as it could go in this situation.

The therapist kinda beat my wife up a bit, telling her that the emotions she felt for this other guy were purely physical and fantastical in nature and that eventually they would fade. She told my wife that she cheated and that she needs to be more understanding of my untrusting attitude towards her for the time being.

My wife said she really just isn't physically turned on by me at all, however she loves me with all her heart. She hopes that me losing weight will help that. I expressed concern that she wants me to live up to these same fantastical feelings she experienced with this other guy and that I don't believe even after losing weight that it will happen simply because we have known each other for so long. I will be more physically attractive yes, but I really doubt she will be crazy about me all of a sudden and I admitted that I could be wrong in that thought but there it is.

The therapist kinda took that and talked to my wife about her feelings for me. My wife said she loves me and that when the other guy got closer to her she could only think of me and wanting to be with me. She said she loves just being with me and loves everything about my personality but that she just wishes that when she gets horny it is because of me and not because she is making herself that way by thinking of other guys etc. The therapist told her what she feels for me is a "mature love", its the love you experience after the honeymoon phase of a relation, after the butterflies have gone away. The therapist said you will still get butterflies once in a while but after you are comfortable in the relationship those will be far and few between (her opinion I guess on that, some people disagree). 

I then told her that I am trying to be proactive about fixing our marriage (reading, working out, eating better, fixing all my finances etc.) yet I feel like my wife is just being reactive and not really doing anything besides working on herself. I asked the therapist if there is any way to bridge that gap.

She asked my wife what she has been doing to work on the marriage, and more importantly to work on getting that romantic love feeling back with your husband. My wife just sat there and said "honestly I have no idea what to do." 

I brought up the no contact letter and how she wouldn't write it out. The therapist asked me what the letter meant to me. I told her it was a way for me to trust again, a tool to prove to me that she holds me above this other guy and that her writing this out and mailing it to him would have really helped me. The therapist asked me "but isn't the letter really just a way for you to try and re-gain control of a situation you have no control over?" I told her she was partly right but that I just wanted to be involved as my wife had called it off with this guy 4 times now. The therapist said a letter is not going to stop or control someone from doing it again in the future but that she understand why I wanted it. She also understood and made my wife understand by grilling the sh!t out of her. She made my wife understand that my trust is gone and that she as a wife is currently doing nothing to rebuild it and that she needs to be making much more effort with meeting my needs and wants. My wife agreed.

The therapist thought it was great that we are reading together and having date nights. I talked about the physical disconnect between us and that physical contact is important to me as a communication of love. We compromised that, for now at least, I wont try to initiate anything sexual in the bedroom (suck) and that most of the physical contact will be saved for date nights. The therapist said she is going to get some exercises ready for us next week that will help build that romantic intimacy and to keep working on ourselves with each other. My wife grabbed my hand during this as well which was nice and unexpected of her.

The therapist said that she felt my wife was living a superficial life....yes she said that to her....I almost started laughing...
My wife just kept saying that she wants what she felt for this other guy only she wants to feel it with me and I kept saying that is unrealistic to a point. So the therapist says she has some ideas to help bridge that gap between us and that we should not focus on that because it is a useless emotion as these things change with time.

Anyways we did laugh a lot during the session just talking about the things that have happened during this whole time and funny things about ourselves in general. We left in our separate vehicles but before I got in my car my wife came over, hugged me and gave me a big kiss on the lips and told me she loves me.

I went home and worked out and talked with a few friends the rest of the night. She texted me later that night saying she loves me and asking if I will be up when she gets home. I told her I love her to and that I am not sure I will be up (she gets home early in the morning), Anyways, I went to bed but she did come cuddle me when she got home.

So not really sure what to think of things, just going to try and work on ourselves and keep going to marriage counseling, reading, having date nights etc. Things are looking up but there is a long unknown road before us.

At this point I am feeling pretty good about either direction we head, I have lost 40 pounds now and am feeling better and more confident every day. We are going to really work on this and I hope it all works out now. Thanks to everyone for helping me along in this. I will update this thread from time to time if I have any questions or I need some inspiration 

Thanks all.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

DAMN good sandman. You keep that MC no matter what she sounds like a good egg. You are doing everything you can do so just keep on trucking and you will have no doubt that no matter what happens it will not be because you did not do 100% on your part.

Hopes are with you brother


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

CEL said:


> DAMN good sandman. You keep that MC no matter what she sounds like a good egg. You are doing everything you can do so just keep on trucking and you will have no doubt that no matter what happens it will not be because you did not do 100% on your part.
> 
> Hopes are with you brother


Thanks CEL, I appreciate it !!


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Gladman, losing the weight and getting into better shape is going to help you build confidence.

And what do women love? A confident man.

Your going to want more of it. Next thing you know... You are dressing better, eating better, looking better.

Out of the corner of her eye - guess who's picking up on this? Not only that... But your options widen. And guess who is picking up on that? 

Chain of events that will put you in a better position no matter what the outcome is in your marriage.

Believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Gladman, losing the weight and getting into better shape is going to help you build confidence.
> 
> And what do women love? A confident man.
> 
> ...


Gladman,

We do hear that women really give the eye to cheap, balding, show stealers.

But, that's a topic for another thread.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Gladman,
> 
> We do hear that women really give the eye to cheap, balding, show stealers.
> 
> But, that's a topic for another thread.


You devil you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Haha thanks guys, I am on day 4 of a 70 day juice fast. Got the OK from the doc. Down 7 pounds already, 42 pounds lost so far (since all this went down).


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

My wife is starting to notice little things, last night she cuddled me when she came to bed and was caressing my stomach, she said it is so weird to be able to feel my ribs now.

Still not good enough to turn her on at all I guess but oh well hah.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

That's an amazing weight loss, congrats!!


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> That's an amazing weight loss, congrats!!


Thanks!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> My wife is starting to notice little things, last night she cuddled me when she came to bed and was caressing my stomach, she said it is so weird to be able to feel my ribs now.
> 
> Still not good enough to turn her on at all I guess but oh well hah.


Do it for you, or don't do it at all.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do it for you, or don't do it at all.


Absolutely man, was just saying she has not responded yet, but oh well. I am doing this for me no doubt.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Absolutely man, was just saying she has not responded yet, but oh well. I am doing this for me no doubt.


Tell me about how you feel about it.

Not how she does - or does not - respond.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Tell me about how you feel about it.
> 
> Not how she does - or does not - respond.


Well I feel great about it, excited. At the same time hopeful that my wife will eventually get excited as well lol. But if not I will be soo much better off without her if that ends up being the case.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Well I feel great about it, excited. At the same time hopeful that my wife will eventually get excited as well lol. But if not I will be soo much better off without her if that ends up being the case.


Couldn't make it past one sentence, eh


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Wife made a comment after we got done reading last night and I was laying on my back and she cuddled me. "It's so strange cuddling you now, its like holding a different person......I like it."

Then this morning I got a "you look good." I looked in the mirror and said "yeah....I'm kind of a big deal." she started laughing.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Planning on watching a movie tonight. I am trying to think of fun romantic things to do together, but I cant come up with a lot really. I thought of going out to a movie, going for a walk, staying in for a movie, going out to a bar (sucks I am juice fasting), going to the art museum. Fargo ND does not have tons of stuff to do really. Anyone know anything fun/romantic that they recommend?


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Go for a hike in a state park and have sex in the woods. My $.02.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sadman79 said:


> Planning on watching a movie tonight. I am trying to think of fun romantic things to do together, but I cant come up with a lot really. I thought of going out to a movie, going for a walk, staying in for a movie, going out to a bar (sucks I am juice fasting), going to the art museum. Fargo ND does not have tons of stuff to do really. Anyone know anything fun/romantic that they recommend?


Go to Meetup.com and look for activities you enjoy.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

angstire said:


> Go for a hike in a state park and have sex in the woods. My $.02.


well that would not work out too well right now..since our major issue has to do with physical attraction. Marriage counselor said not to push it (sex) right now at all, as well as the His Needs, Her Needs book saying the same thing basically. 

I need to find some stuff to do that doesn't involve sex but is still romantic.


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## sadman79 (Jun 17, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Go to Meetup.com and look for activities you enjoy.


ok thanks, I will give that a try here.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Picnic in the park? Then maybe there's some sex?


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Okay here is the list of date night things some cost money some do not. Remember when doing date night you don't tell her what you are doing. 

1. Comedy club

2. Live Band

3. State parks remember the ride there is a time to bond with good conversation.

4. Out of state drives are fun if you got something fun in a close state nearby.

5. Hiking go easy as you are on the juice fast remember do not work out or heavy physical exertion when fasting.

6. Date night at home. You get candles. You get flowers. You get a card. Cook dinner. You dress up. Set the table maybe put on some music. No tv. No phones. 

7. Hit dowtown for some window shopping and some walking around. Look at the shops go in to some art galleries sit at a cafe and have some tea.

8. In the morning go to have coffee at an outdoor cafe. Sit around maybe read the paper or do some puzzle or tivia together.

9. Picnic's are fun make a basket of treats a comfy blanket and have some good times.

10. Rocky Horror Picture show is playing have a date night and have a good time.

11. Plays are put on by a lot of amateur colleges look into it. You can have a good time on the cheap.

12. Concerts start looking at what is coming to your area.

13. Have her write down a list of all the restaurants she wants to go to. Then pick a random one and take her to dinner. Sometimes do fancy other times do weird.

14. Massage day. Buy yourself and her a massage or a pedicure they are not to much and you get a lot out of it. INSIST on her getting a female masseuse NO MATTER WHAT.

15. Take some dancing lessons.

16. Take an indoor rock climbing class. Again insist on a female trainer the guys at these places can be douche bags.

17. Go to your local pool and swim or just sit in the hot tub.

Okay so those are few things you can do. Keep posting if you need some others those are just off the top of my head.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

angstire said:


> Picnic in the park? Then maybe there's some sex?


Sadman, I'll give up this topic after this last post, but I know guys who are not that attractive, but super confident and they get the ladies. 

Now, you're working on making yourself thinner and you're probably handsome anyway, so you've already got a lot going for you in the looks department. But maybe your attractiveness would increase if you put the moves on her? 

I'm not saying lie and manipulate, but "hey baby, let's go for a hike in the woods, good for cardio." A nice little picnic and you look over and say, "you know what else is good for cardio? I bet you'd look really hot half naked in the sunshine." Or your own variation. Even if she turns you down, her interest will be sparked. All of a sudden you're naughty and you want her and you don't care if you get caught. Romance her and then initiate. It will build your confidence if nothing else.

Food for thought. 

Now, I'll shut up on this one.


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