# Is PIV the only "real" sex?



## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Curious to hear from the ladies on this...

My wife seems to often feel that PIV sex is the "real" sex, and everything else no so much. She does enjoy other types of sex (oral on occasion, manual stimulation on occasion), but seems to really feel that those things on their own are "less than" PIV sex. She does enjoy a few different positions for PIV, but discounts sexual experiences that do not include PIV.

She has said only PIV makes her feel close and other types of sex dont have the same "value" (not exactly her words, but best way I can sum it up). 

I enjoy PIV, so it is not like I do not want that, but I also enjoy many other types of sex equally. I do not put higher value on a PIV experience than I would on any other sexual experience. I sometimes feel that she thinks other types of sex are immature in some way.

Do other ladies feel similar?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

No lady here (don't call me Loretta...)

That is my wife. Not only are the other things not sex, they're disgusting, uninteresting, and pretty much off-limits. No manual touching, oral is right out, and PIV requires face-to-face contact. 

So yeah, 3 sigma left of the mean, but they are out there.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Curious to hear from the ladies on this...
> 
> My wife seems to often feel that PIV sex is the "real" sex, and everything else no so much. She does enjoy other types of sex (oral on occasion, manual stimulation on occasion), but seems to really feel that those things on their own are "less than" PIV sex. She does enjoy a few different positions for PIV, but discounts sexual experiences that do not include PIV.
> 
> ...


Doesn't really matter how we feel your wife is communicating with you and you should listen. 

I enjoy lots of sex but I do feel PIV or PIA is more connecting than mutual masterbation or oral. In general I don't participate in one sided sex but I am also fortunate nobody asks me to.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Doesn't really matter how we feel your wife is communicating with you and you should listen.
> 
> I enjoy lots of sex but I do feel PIV or PIA is more connecting than mutual masterbation or oral. In general I don't participate in one sided sex but I am also fortunate nobody asks me to.


I agree that my wife is communicating with me and I need to listen, but I also value the option of TAM as a sounding board to help get "reality checked" for myself and get a better understanding of how other marriages are. Much of the sex topic is not conversation I have with many others, and even when I/we do, I question if their in-person responses are more about what they think I/we want to hear in stead of maybe the truth. TAM gives an option to get fairly unbiased feedback from others. Most of the time I post here, I get a lot of value on the experiences and advise from other TAM members.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I feel like a session that includes PIV is more about connecting and emotion and less about raw sex. Some days I want one thing and some days I want a different thing. If PIV was off the table forever though, I'd have a really hard time emotionally connecting to my partner.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

Anastasia6's term "one-sided sex" sums up the way I feel about it too. With PIV (or PIA, if you do that) you are actually physically connected and can both reach a physically-induced climax.

The others are perfectly fine but one partner is doing it for (or to) the other. Nothing wrong with that, but if she is giving you oral she is doing it for your pleasure. She might enjoy doing it, but her mouth isn't going to have an orgasm, so what's in it for her? Obviously bringing YOU pleasure, but if she just doesn't like it then, she just doesn't like it. Same with manual stimulation.

Now you might get really turned on by "giving", but if she doesn't then you just have to find what works for both of you. All my previous GF's and 1st wife enjoyed me giving oral and manual stimulation. But my now-and-forever wife really doesn't care for foreplay. She wants to get right into PIV, no messing around beforehand. 

For a long time this made me sad, because I thought SHE was missing out and I wanted to show her how good it could feel. But, she _Always _orgasms, either clitorally or vaginally (or both if multiples), and previous lovers were hit or miss, so...

find what you both like and get good at that. Practice makes perfect!


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

notmyjamie said:


> I feel like a session that includes PIV is more about connecting and emotion and less about raw sex. Some days I want one thing and some days I want a different thing. If PIV was off the table forever though, I'd have a really hard time emotionally connecting to my partner.


I would never suggest taking PIV off the table, but would be curious if you could have a sexual experience that did not include PIV, and walk away from it feeling it was still a good experience, was bringing you close to your partner, and was something you could say was a "good experience"


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Curious to hear from the ladies on this...
> 
> My wife seems to often feel that PIV sex is the "real" sex, and everything else no so much. She does enjoy other types of sex (oral on occasion, manual stimulation on occasion), but seems to really feel that those things on their own are "less than" PIV sex. She does enjoy a few different positions for PIV, but discounts sexual experiences that do not include PIV.
> 
> ...


Many see PIV as more intimate and feelings of being close( being one). My wife sees any activity as real sex. Each provide a different type of orgasm as well.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I guess I should have been clearer. I do not orgasm from PIV alone. I enjoy oral, manual stimulation and such it is part of my orgasm. But it is part of an overall experience that includes PIV. So connectedness and other things to orgasm.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I would never suggest taking PIV off the table, but would be curious if you could have a sexual experience that did not include PIV, and walk away from it feeling it was still a good experience, was bringing you close to your partner, and was something you could say was a "good experience"


Okay, if intercourse didn't happen, could I have a sexual experience and walk away from it feeling it was still a good experience, that brought me to close to my man, and was something I could say was a 'good experience'... 

well, kind of... but I'd consider what I've experienced with _receiving_ as 'ecstatic' rather than 'good'. Various interactions aside from intercourse can leave me feeling holy-eff-that-was-hot/fun/sexy. Or in other words, replenishing and connecting. If he's making it just about me, mrreeow. And to answer your question, I'm thinking more about pleasure received. I'm a fan of oral; although it's been a while since we've simultaneously given to one another... mostly as I find receiving too distracting to concentrate on what I gotta do. Yet, there are other ways we simultaneously take one another there (or perhaps almost, before switching things up). However, it's not to suggest that I'd want a regular replacement of our bodies syncing as one. Cue the 90's rnb with that sentence.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Maxwedge 413 said:


> The others are perfectly fine but one partner is doing it for (or to) the other. Nothing wrong with that, but if she is giving you oral she is doing it for your pleasure. She might enjoy doing it, but *her mouth isn't going to have an orgasm, so what's in it for her*? Obviously bringing YOU pleasure, but if she just doesn't like it then, she just doesn't like it. Same with manual stimulation.


I hesitated about whether to post this.. just one method is for her to be laying with her neck off the edge of the bed to give oral to him standing over her, while he manually stimulates her and/or include a toy. He can access her supine body laid before him from that position. Anyway..... just a thought. I shall now exit stage left!


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Post menopause, while not 100% off the table, PiV has become really painful. If that was the only definition of sex we’d be sexless. It wasn’t easy but we eventually adjusted. It’s different now, not better but not really worse, just different. What used to be effortless now takes some effort. We both agree not having “sex” is not an option and just ain’t happening.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I would never suggest taking PIV off the table, but would be curious if you could have a sexual experience that did not include PIV, and walk away from it feeling it was still a good experience, was bringing you close to your partner, and was something you could say was a "good experience"


Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear. Yes, I can have a non PIV experience and still think it was a good experience. What makes an experience good for me is his satisfaction and then secondary, whether I enjoy that particular type of sex. If all we ever did was stuff he liked and wanted and never what I liked, well, that would be a problem but it doesn't sound like that's what you're after. I think of sex as a give and take...sometimes it's what you want, sometimes it's what she wants and sometimes you both are in the mood for the same thing which is spectacular. 

Without getting into too many details, I spent many years with my exH unable to have PIV because he couldn't perform in that way. It was less than satisfying for sure. Eventually I gave up and we stopped having any type of sex altogether. Now, I'm sure some of why I couldn't adapt was that I knew the reason was that he just wasn't attracted to me and that colored things for sure. If my BF now started to have issues and worked at fixing them and we needed to take PIV off the menu for a while I'd be sad but I'd work with him and still find a way to feel close to him. But that's very different from just wanting to spice up your sex life every now and again. That I'm totally up for!! Variety is the spice of life after all.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Why don't you just do oral and PIV all in one shot, no pun intended lol. Problem solved!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> *She has said only PIV makes her feel close...*
> 
> Do other ladies feel similar?


So your wife tells you something about herself, and after some thought you decide to take up a debate her on the topic. But first you plan to arm yourself with opinions from how women feel to make sure your stance is fully defended...

...*how about you listen to your wife when she tells you something about how SHE feels* and avoid comparing that with the feelings from other women!

I have a double doctorate degree in NOT listening my wife and doing research to get my way. She sent me back to school because those degrees of mine have proven useless over the years!

If there is one thing that makes a wife feel close to her husband, just ONE THING... that is a husband that actually listens to her when she tries to tell you how she feels.

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

badsanta said:


> So your wife tells you something about herself, and after some thought you decide to take up a debate her on the topic. But first you plan to arm yourself with opinions from how women feel to make sure your stance is fully defended...
> 
> ...*how about you listen to your wife when she tells you something about how SHE feels* and avoid comparing that with the feelings from other women!
> 
> ...


I fully understand what you are saying and why that can be applicable. In my case, I am NOT trying to research before confronting her. I have no intention of it being a topic of discussion with her. For me, it is more about feeling that I understand better and can stop the dialog running through my head about it. 

I also realized as I read back through my OP and the responses, I may have misrepresented the situation. We DO have other types of sex. My inquiry is not about wanting variety or wishing she would do something different, it was more about feeling a bit confused on why she places so much MORE value on PIV than any other type of sex. It is almost like PIV is the ONLY way she feels sexually connected, and other types of sexual acts are only good for the orgasm. 

My intentions when I post on TAM are not always (or even often) about getting armed to go back and win a discussion with my wife, it is more about a sounding board to better understand and sort out my own feelings.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I personally think you are over thinking this. Do a bunch of sexual "stuff" to make each other feel good and have a intimate experience. Call it what you want, rinse and repeat.

Don't worry about what you classify it as.

If she needs POV sex give it to her. Hopefully she will give you what you need too.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Curious to hear from the ladies on this...
> 
> My wife seems to often feel that PIV sex is the "real" sex, and everything else no so much. She does enjoy other types of sex (oral on occasion, manual stimulation on occasion), but seems to really feel that those things on their own are "less than" PIV sex. She does enjoy a few different positions for PIV, but discounts sexual experiences that do not include PIV.
> 
> ...


My BF has the same view point as you. He really enjoys variety and is always looking for something new to try. He's very much into my pleasure, says he can't get off unless he knows I am so he always has my pleasure in mind. Before I met him I would've agreed with your wife. PIV, for me, has always been the most intimate form of sex. But....

Now that I've explored with my BF I view sex, in all it's various forms, differently. Some ways may seem more animalistic than intimate but really any form of sharing each others bodies with one another is bond forming. I'm trusting him, being vulnerable and giving myself to him in ways I have never given myself to another so he's receiving something from me that no one else has and that means something.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Not said:


> My BF has the same view point as you. He really enjoys variety and is always looking for something new to try. He's very much into my pleasure, says he can't get off unless he knows I am so he always has my pleasure in mind. Before I met him I would've agreed with your wife. PIV, for me, has always been the most intimate form of sex. But....
> 
> Now that I've explored with my BF I view sex, in all it's various forms, differently. Some ways may seem more animalistic than intimate but really any form of sharing each others bodies with one another is bond forming. I'm trusting him, being vulnerable and giving myself to him in ways I have never given myself to another so he's receiving something from me that no one else has and that means something.


This is a great answer!

It doesn't sound like your W is saying she ONLY wants PIV sex, but sharing with you that particular act does hold a unique meaning to her.

And that's good!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> ....more about feeling a bit confused on why she places so much MORE value on PIV than any other type of sex. It is almost like PIV is the ONLY way she feels sexually connected, and other types of sexual acts are only good for the orgasm.



In my opinion from everything I have read is that the drive and compelling desire to orgasm is VERY DIFFERENT between men and women. For men it is an evolutionary requirement for procreation. For women it is likely an inherited side effect from our sexual evolution. Women have orgasms for the same reasons men have nipples. Us men do not use our nipples in the same ways that women do. Same goes for orgasms in that women do not use their orgasms for the same as men. 

My point that I am trying to make here is that an orgasm for a woman is something different than an orgasm for a man. Most often women are more interested in a strong emotional connection during sex and an orgasm is perhaps an enjoyable side effect. Meanwhile men are sometimes more focused on orgasms and achieving an emotional connection as an enjoyable side effect. This is perhaps somewhat of a stereotype, but nonetheless a useful model to help look at how mirrored roles during intimacy can produce certain dynamics. 

So your wife wants to feel "connected!" PIV is perhaps the most physical expression that is equivalent to what she desires emotionally during intimacy. As others have pointed out that it is also one of the few intimate scenarios that is usually a two-sided experience in that you can both receive pleasure this way. 

So working from there, how would one improve or enhance your emotional connection with one another when exploring things other than PIV? Aside from forms of physical touch, what other forms of communication are there during intimacy? Not something you have to answer, but just things to think about. 

An example might be that you receive a great deal of pleasure by giving pleasure to your wife in the form of a one-sided experience. She may however be unaware and disconnected from how and why you are receiving this indirect form of pleasure. So you may find it helpful to whisper your feelings into her ears as they happen to share with your wife what you feel and why you feel as it happens. This may help her feel more connected with you during a one-sided experience and help enhance other ways of being together. 

There was a book I once read and I honestly felt that the guy who wrote it was an idiot. He claimed that simultaneous orgasms were not that great and should be avoided. I laughed and thought, "well OK I guess this guy has never managed to do that!" But he later pointed to the pleasure of fully allowing yourself to observe your partner's orgasm and vice versa being something that potentially doubles the pleasure. Now the question becomes the notion of embracing that while also trying to double the emotional connection as well. Given that women are multi-orgasmic there is also even more potential there as well. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

I think any activity that causes orgasm or arousal is sex. Certainly cybersex is sex and their is no contact, yet it appears to be very intense.

My W has never orgasmed from me using my hand or oral and I've always felt cheated, like I only got 33% from her.


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## Maxwedge 413 (Apr 16, 2014)

Tamat I feel the same way, which I commented earlier. My wife is the only woman (of about 9 total) that didn't enjoy my hand or mouth on her. All others asked for it, but she doesn't seem to like it. I feel slighted and under utilized, because it has been greedily taken by all others.

The trade-off however, is that she cums easily from PIV, looks great above or below me, and is a fantastic life partner. I don't mind the trade anymore, and if I _were _a selfish lover (which Im not) I'd be living like a king. Actually I am living like a king. I think I'll ask her to call me King this weekend.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

I like it all. And find it all very satisfying.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

It's mostly the only sex we have. Everytime we have sex, her expectation is for me to finish in her that way.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

badsanta said:


> My point that I am trying to make here is that an orgasm for a woman is something different than an orgasm for a man. Most often women are more interested in a strong emotional connection during sex and an orgasm is perhaps an enjoyable side effect. Meanwhile men are sometimes more focused on orgasms and achieving an emotional connection as an enjoyable side effect. This is perhaps somewhat of a stereotype, but nonetheless a useful model to help look at how mirrored roles during intimacy can produce certain dynamics.


Instead of that kind of thinking, which reads like a poor excuse for not being able to rub a woman the right way. Perhaps you should think of a woman clitoris as a giant four pronged penis.










*Time for a rethink on the clitoris*  - BBC News



> *The clitoris rivals the penis in size*.
> 
> "*The vaginal wall is, in fact, the clitoris*," said Dr O'Connell, who is based in Melbourne.
> 
> "If you lift the skin off the vagina on the side walls, you get the bulbs of the clitoris - triangular, crescental masses of erectile tissue."





> "There's nothing quite like the shape of a clitoris," she said.
> 
> "The glans are dense with nerve endings and receptors - all the vibration and sensation is there."
> 
> ...


If you rub a mans penis the right way presuming it is functional, the man will orgasm. Likewise if you rub a woman clitoris (which is a large organ which lines the vagina and extends elsewhere) the right way, the woman will also orgasm presuming it is functional.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Curious to hear from the ladies on this...
> 
> My wife seems to often feel that PIV sex is the "real" sex, and everything else no so much. She does enjoy other types of sex (oral on occasion, manual stimulation on occasion), but seems to really feel that those things on their own are "less than" PIV sex. She does enjoy a few different positions for PIV, but discounts sexual experiences that do not include PIV.
> 
> ...


Considering the fact that part of a woman clitoris is actually her vaginal wall, you shouldn't be surprised by your wife feeling the way she does about penetrative sex.

How would you like it if sex for you, only involved the very tip of your penis and no other part of it?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I consider all forms of foreplay sex, and most women I've known like foreplay as well or better than PIV as long as they're on the receiving end. It's actually a little bit rare for someone to get off just PIV but there are some who do and it just depends on how you fit together and what else is going on. It's true that a lot of women like to be close and face to face, I think, or at least a lot of parts of the body touching. Otherwise they can come to feel like they're just disconnected and not much different than, say, trimming somebody's toenails.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Cletus said:


> No lady here (don't call me Loretta...)


Surely you don't mean that.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I would never suggest taking PIV off the table, but would be curious if you could have a sexual experience that did not include PIV, and walk away from it feeling it was still a good experience, was bringing you close to your partner, and was something you could say was a "good experience"


That can be a "good experience" without it being "real sex". Both of these labels are going to be subjective. So while your current wife might only see PIV as real sex, a future wife might consider anything (assuming done well) as real sex.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> It is almost like PIV is the ONLY way she feels sexually connected, and other types of sexual acts are only good for the orgasm.


For your wife that may indeed be the case. Each person connects differently. 

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I personally have never been in a relationship where the guy really wants to experience “non PIV sex, or PIA sex”. 

I would love to do other things but just haven’t had the experience of it. And by that I mean, I’ve done everything as foreplay, not the final act.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

There are so many things to do besides PIV that can be very satisfying


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

GutShot7 said:


> It's mostly the only sex we have. Everytime we have sex, her expectation is for me to finish in her that way.


Or she just finds the clean up and lack of "messy stuff" the most convenient to her. 

Sometimes it's the "this way is easiest, less exertive for her" that a woman goes for. It actually may have very little or nothing at all to do with "that's her favorite cause it feels the best" .

Just easier for her, less effort. 

Or I certainly could be mistaken in this case. 

Just be aware women can sometimes tell a bf or H one thing, when it's totally another. With sex too.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Or she just finds the clean up and lack of "messy stuff" the most convenient to her.
> 
> Sometimes it's the "this way is easiest, less exertive for her" that a woman goes for. It actually may have very little or nothing at all to do with "that's her favorite cause it feels the best" .
> 
> ...


I agree with this. One person can be very lazy during intercourse, whether it’s the man or women (usually women). Also, both parties are getting pleasure at the same time. 

Performing foreplay is often times but not always about one persons pleasure. And once one person orgasms, it take the fun out of it after that. Doing oral to completion or giving a hand job to completion sucks after I orgasm.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> And once one person orgasms, it take the fun out of it after that. Doing oral to completion or giving a hand job to completion sucks after I orgasm.


I don’t know about that. IME the fun doesn’t stop until everybody is grinning.

My wife can no longer O from PiV but when she could we’d simul-cum most of the time. She’d encourage me to cum even if she wasn’t there yet, as that would usually put her over the edge (if not I’d of course still take care of her).


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CharlieParker said:


> I don’t know about that. IME the fun doesn’t stop until everybody is grinning.
> 
> My wife can no longer O from PiV but when she could we’d simul-cum most of the time. She’d encourage me to cum even if she wasn’t there yet, as that would usually put her over the edge (if not I’d of course still take care of her).


Yea I agree with that. Once I cum, I do get tired but I can still muster a few minutes. I mean I can keep my legs open indefinitely after I cum. But riding on top after I cum, I can probably last 5 more minutes and it’s a struggle. Then I am down for the count exhausted. 

I am talking about I orgasmed and it was amazing.... then it’s my turn to give my partner the 15-30 minute foreplay to completion; and to do it well and enthusiastically is difficult.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Yea I agree with that. Once I cum, I do get tired but I can still muster a few minutes. I mean I can keep my legs open indefinitely after I cum. But riding on top after I cum, I can probably last 5 more minutes and it’s a struggle. Then I am down for the count exhausted.
> 
> I am talking about I orgasmed and it was amazing.... then it’s my turn to give my partner the 15-30 minute foreplay to completion; and to do it well and enthusiastically is difficult.


Fair enough. I guess I was looking at it in that the guy can usually cum more/fairly easily.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CharlieParker said:


> Post menopause, while not 100% off the table, PiV has become really painful. If that was the only definition of sex we’d be sexless. It wasn’t easy but we eventually adjusted. It’s different now, not better but not really worse, just different. What used to be effortless now takes some effort. We both agree not having “sex” is not an option and just ain’t happening.


Sounds like she needs HRT.


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