# The psychology of being a giver



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Okay, this is probably rather convoluted, so bear with me! (and although I am using my wife and ex wife as examples, I'm not looking for advice on either, I'm just curious as to what others think on the subject).

Okay, so neither my ex wife nor my current wife fall into the category of providing sexual acts unless it's part of actual sex. ie. no bj's outside of sex, and vice versa. With either of them, any sexual act had/has to be part of mutual sex.

I got/get bj's, and returned the favor, however 99.9% of the time, it's part of piv sex as a whole (which is fine!)

I'm wondering what the psychology behind this is, as women.

I have chatted with my current wife about this, but not gleaned any hard information as to why she isn't into "just" a bj, or for me to give her "just" oral sex (which I am more than happy to do). To her, these things are PART of actual sex.

Both my ex wife and current wife are what you call highly independent women - now. Both of them had similar past sexual experiences (ons, casual sex, etc. and I learned from my ex wife early on that she had a number of partners that she blew and nothing else.) 

It seems as though by the time I came along, they each had decided that this was degrading to them, and they felt that they were being used. My ex wife never hinted at that, but it seemed apparent.

My current wife never said that directly, but her words (and subsequent actions!), as well as body language when speaking about this topic indicated this as well. Not only that, but she intimated that her previous ex, right before me, was a selfish lover, and that it generally was over before she even got going. She was lucky if she was able to get off even once before he was done. And when he was done... he was done. He wouldn't do anything to get her off. So of course she felt rather used.

So in both cases, it is extremely rare for me to receive anything without reciprocation being expected. ie. bj as only foreplay. I am fine with this, I really am. But of course, like any man, I would be thrilled to just be given one for no reason, without asking, hinting, or knowing that I have to return the favor immediately.

I have told my wife that I would be more than happy to provide her the same if she ever wants it. I have tried to just do it for her, but she resists, or if I manage to get that far in the first place, I'm practically forced to have piv, which sometimes I'm just not in the mood for, or energetic enough to do. I've told her point blank, this is all I want to do, you don't have to return the favor, just relax and enjoy. But the few times I've got to that point, it's too late, and it's clear she's not going to enjoy it. ONCE, I finished her off, then tried to go to bed. She made a move to return the favor, and I told her straight up that wasn't necessary. I appreciate it, but I just want to go to bed. She was having none of it, and I got mine - but I felt she was doing it because she thought she had to. The score had to be evened. Therefore, it didn't exactly blow my mind...

So the psychology aspect:

What makes unreciprocated oral sex such a turn off for some women, and why do some of you feel "used" by it?

As a man, I have heard the vulnerability argument from some women before. But, I've always thought that it's we guys who in the vulnerable position - our most prized possession is in your mouth!  We, at that moment, have very little control of what's going on. YOU are in control!

Does past history have THAT much of an impact on whether or not one is comfortable with this or not? And why?

I can sort of understand how if, say, my ex wife had a number of guys in her past who were the type to say "hey baby, blow me" or whatever, how that can be made into a turn off. But if your current partner is not that type of person, why are the feelings the same as if they were?

As far as my current wife is concerned (just to give some more details), I am confident that our sex life is not at all what she's ever had in the past. She has had more partners than I, but she's made it clear (without saying so directly), that she is having the best sex of her life with me. She has told me that it was rare to have more than one O during sex. She has said that on occasions (esp. with her last partner) she wouldn't even have one. With me, she's multi orgasmic every time. She's said she's never had a partner who gave her oral sex long enough to O, if she even got it at all. She's never squirted before me.

I also get the impression that her past sex has always been quick, as she is still not used to anything longer than 20-30 minutes. I tire her out. She's been conditioned for 5-10 minutes, it appears, lol!

Thoughts?

(not on MY situation, I'm happy! I mean in general, in regards to women who find this type of thing degrading or a form of servicing).


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Wow, you raise some really interesting questions here. 

I think you'll find that women are going to come at this from several different angles. 

I'll answer for myself. I do give and receive oral from my husband as stand alone acts. I enjoy it. I did not always feel this way. 

During the period of time when our intimacy was poor, I was very uncomfortable with sex acts that were not part of regular, full-session sex. The reasons usually had to do with

1. My not feeling valued by him as a person. We had ongoing unresolved issues, so I felt that a BJ was more about his sexual release than about intimacy between us. If he didn't like me, why else would he want sexual contact with me. At the very least, I was unsure about how he felt about me, so it was difficult to be a "giver."

2. Insecurity about myself. If the BJ was he only thing on the menu, I felt my performance was more likely to be scrutinized than if other acts were going to be included. I rarely felt sexually aroused if I was just giving oral, making it even harder to be into it and do it well.

3. I had a ton of resentment for him that was rooted in old hurts, old patterns of behavior. Getting on your knees for someone you don't like and respect can be damn near impossible.

I am not saying any of these reasons are your wife's reasons. However, I would guess that she us unable to relax and just do it for SOME REASON other than just thinking that all sex acts must be part of full blown, reciprocal sex. I would also guess that it has to do with the level of intimacy and trust she feels for you and with you. 

I don't know how worth your while it would be to try and ferret it out if all else is going well in your marriage, though. In my case, we were having pretty severe intimacy problems. Fixing those made me very much return to the state of wanting to please my husband. I get SO MUCH out of just giving him pleasure and allowing him to enjoy it selfishly. Why? Because I feel valued by him as a person again, not just as a sexual partner.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

My wife has also never offered a stand alone BJ although she will give one as part of mutual foreplay. 

I can't say I know why. I guess that this has as much to do with her fairly low interest in sex overall. She does not think about it that much whereas a person who is interested in sex is going to think much more about how they can please their partner. I also think many women feel it is humiliating but then again I think that is tied to their lower sex drive.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I hate to simplify it, but I think in some cases people just "get it in their heads" that they don't like this or that, and they don't consider that their feelings on the matter might be a bit more fluid than that.

But having said that...I can't think of any reason to try to change someone's mind. I think we can change our own minds at any time we want...but someone else even daring to try to change our minds feels invasive.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Couple of reasons why I don't like stand alone BJ's.

1. MARITAL history of spending years with no orgasms. Although I will give my H a stand along BJ on rare occasions because I spent so many years wondering why he didn't care that I wasn't orgasming, I'm not sure that resentment is totally gone.

2. The problem is, I have a high sex drive (actually I think it's a normal sex drive but it is a tad higher than my H) so I HATE to see that lovely erection NOT go where I really want it to go!

3. If I could give him a stand alone BJ and still have MY needs seen to, it might be easier for me to give them. As it stands now, after a BJ, he typically is done for the day and I am left with an arousal that's going no where. Not cool!

On the female side, he has never gone down on my and not also had PIV, however, he has many times played with me in secret hiding places and gotten me off. Then nothing for him due to the circumstances at the moment. But as soon as the coast is clear enough, he will also get his.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I hate to simplify it, but I think in some cases people just "get it in their heads" that they don't like this or that, and they don't consider that their feelings on the matter might be a bit more fluid than that.
> 
> But having said that...I can't think of any reason to try to change someone's mind. I think we can change our own minds at any time we want...but someone else even daring to try to change our minds feels invasive.


I see where you are coming from on this FW, but where is the line drawn between "changing someone's mind" vs trying to open them up to new possibilities? Speaking for myself, there have been things that I hadn't really considered doing, not because I had something against them, but because I hadn't really been exposed to them enough to form an opinion. I later found that I'd been missing out on a lot of fun.

I guess if a woman had made this decision because of previous negative experiences, that's understandable. But isn't it possible that dynamics behind this would sometimes change with new partners? Is it wrong to ask her to reconsider the matter?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I see where you are coming from on this FW, but where is the line drawn between "changing someone's mind" vs trying to open them up to new possibilities? Speaking for myself, there have been things that I hadn't really considered doing, not because I had something against them, but because I hadn't really been exposed to them enough to form an opinion. I later found that I'd been missing out on a lot of fun.
> 
> I guess if a woman had made this decision because of previous negative experiences, that's understandable. But isn't it possible that dynamics behind this would sometimes change with new partners? Is it wrong to ask her to reconsider the matter?


I do think we all should try with our own partners, to let them know how to meet our needs. Definitely try. This is essential for good marriages!

But if you have tried and your partner has made it clear to you they have no intention of seeing any certain issue a different way...well, sure...try AGAIN. Try a million times.

In the end though...they can either change their own mind, or not. In some cases, they may be willing to let you walk out the door rather than change. In other cases, you walking out the door might actually cause the spark of change that is necessary.

What I'm really getting at is that sometimes, there really isn't a "reason" behind things we decide we do or don't like. People tend to hold on very tight to the things they believe about themselves, thinking this is what makes them "who they are".


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I do think we all should try with our own partners, to let them know how to meet our needs. Definitely try. This is essential for good marriages!
> 
> But if you have tried and your partner has made it clear to you they have no intention of seeing any certain issue a different way...well, sure...try AGAIN. Try a million times.
> 
> ...


Totally! Like I said, I tried to convince my wife that she really shouldn't feel like she's being used, but at the end of the day - who am I to tell her how she "should" feel about something? So I don't go down that road anymore. I get that as part of sex, so it's not like it doesn't happen.

I used to have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a) she knows what she's doing and is very good at it, and b) she's into it. It's not being done because she feels she has to.

So putting A and B together, I couldn't understand why it wouldn't happen as a solo act.

I gave up long ago!

I'm just curious as to why, and how many, women tend to feel some sort of degradation or subservience from it vs. those that love to please their husbands. (OR... don't mind being subservient on occasion).

And as an aside, if one feels being on your knees is an issue, there are many other positions it can be done in, which aren't so obviously subservient from that perspective.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

alexm said:


> And as an aside, if one feels being on your knees is an issue, there are many other positions it can be done in, which aren't so obviously subservient from that perspective.


Although I did use the phrase "on your knees" it wasn't meant to mean literally, at least not all the time. When I was having issues with giving stand alone BJ's, much of my discomfort came from the perceived power differential. I felt like he had all the power, and I had none. I was a wet mouth, not a person.

One of the ways I came to not only agree to provide stand alone BJ's, but to LOVE giving them was the realization that *I* actually had all the power. The act means so, so much to my husband. He is HD, he loves oral sex, he loves it in different places, at different times of the day. Once we reconciled and our sex life ramped into overdrive, I had him show me EXACTLY what he liked. I did research, I asked him questions, I learned to give killer head. I could bring HIM to his knees with pleasure. It was a very, very powerful feeling. That's what I'm going for when I offer him BJ's now. That feeling of power. I get aroused just thinking about taking him in my mouth. 

As FW said, you can change your mindset; but someone else really can't change it for you.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I still have hopes for my wife. I have been trying to chip away at that for a few years and agree with Faithful Wife that the goal has to be to get them to want to change themselves. 

My strategy has been to respond to oral and PiV sex in the most positive way possible. She always gets an orgasm first which puts her in a better frame of mind. Then when it is my turn I am not at all shy about making noise or saying how good it is. We usually finish with PiV and I tell her how good that is also and again re-enforce how much the foreplay turned me on. 

Whereas my previous SO liked to exchange oral all the time and I tended just to lay back relax and enjoy. 

I can't say if this strategy will work because ultimately I believe that she just does not think about it. Maybe the best I could hope for is to be able to ask for one and get it without it being duty BJ. 

I asked for one about 10 years ago and it was so bad I have never tried that again but then she has shown much more enthusiasm over the last few years.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

Anon - I agree about the "wasted" erection! 

I LOVE giving BJs. I love to please my man and let him drift off to sleep. I think it's one of the most awesome things a woman can do for her man. 

It gets tough when things aren't reciprocated as often or maybe even never. 

But it does make me sad to see that beautiful thing in all of it's erect glory, enjoy caressing it in so many ways, and it feels like it just ain't right! I want it even more after that. 

Why must these things be so frustrating?


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

I will occasionally give a stand alone BJ, but not often. And it's not because it leaves me feeling used or degraded. 

I enjoy giving one when I am aroused. And it is so much better for my H when this is the case. I really don't enjoy giving one when I am not aroused. But I do it occasionally because I know my H likes it. This might explain why for some women BJs are generally woven somewhere into the sex act. The need for arousal.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I think this is a fascinating topic.

In my marriage, my wife has no issues whatsoever about providing me with "standalone" BJ's. She knows I love them, she is generally very skilled and enthusiastic, she says that giving me head is a turn-on for her most of the time, and they are an alternative to PIV sex when she is tired, or just not in the mood for an all-out fvcking.

She likes to get oral from me as well, but almost always in the context of it leading to PIV sex. I can count the times on one hand in 34 years when she has allowed me to give her oral sex to orgasm(s) without her insisting/begging/physically moving around in order to have me give her PIV sex.

For whatever reason, my giving her standalone (non-foreplay)oral is a problem for her. I can use my hands on her, or even use a vibe on her, give her orgasms, and she won't necessarily insist that I give her PIV. But not oral.

There was recent thread about this, I think the one idea from that thread that seemed to make sense was the idea of detachment. A few female posters said that they felt detached or isolated from sex when their SO goes down on them, like they are looking around for something to do, they couldn't just relax and let their partner have at it without eventually wanting the connection of PIV.

I have also heard that some females are self-conscious about their lady parts, and I also believe there is a self-worth issue with some women whereby they feel they don't deserve the unreciprocated pleasure or to be the focal point of their SO's attention in that manner.

I'm very interested in hearing what the ladies have to say about this. I would love to give my wife more oral sex without the expectation that it lead to reciprocation or PIV sex, but she is rarely comfortable with it.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Weird. As long as the guy is enthusiastic, I love giving or getting oral sex just on its own, without the expectation of reciprocity. It's hot.


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## heyheyitschrish (Jan 17, 2014)

Okay, so I have some thoughts on this from a womens perspective.

(Granted, I have no experience past the three years with my husband.)

BJ's are NOT degrading in my opinion...I do not see why other women can even think that they are. Your husband comes to you, with an erection and asks for pleasure? In my mind, doing things like HJ'S or BJ'S or anything of the sort is a very fun and unique way for my husband to have his needs met as a man. Sometimes, my husband will even PREFER a BJ to sex especially for the change up in sexual acts and it makes him feel like I truly love and care about him and want to give him the best. What is wrong with men wanting some variety or just a hott time? I like it. My opinions may change with age but I highly doubt it.  They can even be fun if you are just trying to have a no mess quicky, because you can swallow. And this can make for a passionate, fun time in forbidden places (public).


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## JKW1203 (Jan 26, 2014)

This is interesting!! I always hated the thought of giving a BJ. First marriage, honestly, my husband put me off for 2 reasons. Number 1, I only tried it a few times, but he complained that the skin on my tongue was 'too rough', and 2nd, I used to want to be sick because he had a terrible odour about him (probably had something to do with the tonne of powder he used to put there, and it mixed with body odour.....used to make me want to throw up).
2nd 'husband' demanded a lot of things, and had a very degrading view of women, watched A LOT of porn and raped me for 2yrs....enough said.
My last partner, who I now only see to give him oral.....well, he NEVER EVER asked for it, and even said he felt special that I would do it for him. I love it. I don't find it degrading, and in fact, I search for ways to make it even better for him (he is now at the stage he can't even masturbate because it just isn't the same anymore). When we started our new understanding of no relationship, but I would give him pleasure because I WANT to do it for him, he was very cautious, and felt as though he was degrading me because I asked for nothing in return. He is over that now and loves it when I turn up unannounced to his house and wake him up with a treat or two. 
I can definitely understand both sides, and I would not like my partner to do the same to me because I feel wrong about that.....but I will give to him anytime he wants


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband is such a Giver himself.... I mean it means everything that I "get mine" when we're together...he will even pass on my wanting to pleasure him with a BJ -if he thinks I could be ready for him that night or the next morning.....not that I am complaining about this.. as I want mine too! 

At his age, once a day is his limit.. I wish I could give him more BJ's and I'm sad with myself that in the past when he could have went 3 times a day, I wasn't there for him like that... so even trying to make it up..I really can't...  

But I so love to give him this pleasure... It makes ME feel on top of the world...right along with him. 

I remember this one conversation... he told me he felt "Selfish".. I am like "WHAT.. are you crazy.. you don't want this [email protected]#"... He'd , of course he did... and I'd tell him "Lay back baby, cause I selfishly want to Do you !".... He's gotten over this..and it didn't take too long... my enthusiasm was pretty high...

He's always said to me.. and has lived this in the bedroom.... that *>* "You're pleasure is my pleasure " ...we are one in the same on this....even though my libido has calmed... the spirit of giving has not at all left me.... they say sex starts in the mind...yeah I want to hold on to this...keeping him well satisfied.. as much as he can handle..


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't know that it's a "psychological" thing rather than a preference. 

Seems both of the women you mention just aren't into oral sex on its own. 

I personally consider myself an "independent woman" and would always randomly give Mr. Ex Jelly random BJs w/ no ulterior motives. Sometimes he'd want to play further and I'd say no, that it was all about him. It's funny. I loved loved loved to give them to him.

Just comes down to what each person is into.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I do think that it has very much to do with psychology. The only pleasure the giver gets is the empathy of giving pleasure.

My wife once referred to it as "servicing" me -which is degrading for her. Whereas women that like to give see it as giving their partner an extra treat I would guess.


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