# Its Over, I cannot begin to even cry...



## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, I have followed all of the helpful advice here that I can. Had a long talk with the wife today. Her A has definately ended and we were on the edge of starting to rebuild. Discussion of the A with friends and family came up and I told her I had been in contact about it with her mom, sister and my family as well as certain friends. She blew up...I mean really blew up like I have never seen her do. Threw things at me. Said I had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to me, that she would never forgive me and that we were done. She left. I guess we are over.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Give her time. If the A is truly over, she will process emotionally your actions and may return still.

Just like your initial relation upon knowing her A, she's reacting to your taken aggressive action to save the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You betrayed her more by exposing her affair than by her cheating on you?............Oh Please. What is wrong with this picture?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

I wouldn't give her time, just file and let her do all the hard work. Now you're gonna have to get on your knees and grovel for her to come back again, trust me on this. You're gonna have to be sorry and apologize for telling her parents and family, you're gonna have to make it up her to prove that she can trust you again to even try.

Give it time, and this is what you're gonna go through. You can win her back, but you're gonna have to do the hard work now from her point of view.

She just left the A, so she already did her hard work, giving that up for you, hahahahaha, what a joke because I have to laugh at myself. I'm back and the A is over and you know how hard that was, DO YOU, you better appreciate what I did to come back to you, what a sick bastard I was back then.

You didn't betray her, you told the truth.

And I keep telling everyone, the only way my wife got through to me was to just finally let me go, give up and tell me to get the hell out. Until that point, everything was still her fault, I never saw it as my fault until I finally came face to face with what I could be throwing away.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I agree with Shaggy. Having to face the music of what you've done is tough. You surprised her with the fact that she is now humiliated in front of her family and yours and just lashed out. I confessed myself to both my family and my wife's the day after D Day - it was tough to do but it was part of taking ownership of my actions. Had the fact the I had been outed to everyone been sprung on me it would have really jarred me emotionally. I don't like the comparison of what you did to her betrayal of you but it was likely just emotional overload. 

The other option is that the affair is actually still going on and you just made it more difficult for her. Hopefully you're certain that it's over and are comfortable this is not a possibility.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm a cheater (EA), so forgive me for asking what may seem like a stupid question to the BS group.

If you were interested in R, why the need to tell others? Isn't it a personal issue between the H and W?

It would stop me in my tracks of R because of the added shame that comes with it. I'd have to leave the marriage and town.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Listen good mate, the advice here is sound.
If you let her make you feel guilty, she will own your life for ever.
File for D, NEVER apologise for exposing her, once reality sets in and slaps her hard in the face, you will be seen as the strongest of the two of you and she will know it. It may make her come back at you with a genuine respect and desire to grow as a couple again.
If you want it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

This is normal. Anyone who finds out their dirty secret is no longer a secret will be mad. If she is worried about what people thunk of her, all she has to do is express true remorse and contrition, make positive steps in the right direction, and people can and will usually forgive.

She's not really mad at you, in my opinion. She's mad at herself for the person she'd become and that others now know it. All she has to do is no longer be that person. 

I wouldn't think twice about her anger. As previously posted, her emotions a raw right now. It'll pass once she really starts thinking rationally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

HerToo said:


> I'm a cheater (EA), so forgive me for asking what may seem like a stupid question to the BS group.
> 
> If you were interested in R, why the need to tell others? Isn't it a personal issue between the H and W?
> 
> It would stop me in my tracks of R because of the added shame that comes with it. I'd have to leave the marriage and town.


Because it shows that you can own up to your mistake. That is one of the biggest points you can make to a BS that you can look them in the face and admit to them you screwed up and are willing to not have it happen again.

And that in turns will show the BS that you truly are sorry for what happened. If you can't face others because of what you did then you have no backbone to face yourself as to why you did it. Rug sweep it and nobody has to know.

The DS has no say in the consequences we face for our actions, all we can do is make sure it doesn't happen again to prove to others that you have changed.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Because it shows that you can own up to your mistake. That is one of the biggest points you can make to a BS that you can look them in the face and admit to them you screwed up and are willing to not have it happen again.
> 
> And that in turns will show the BS that you truly are sorry for what happened. If you can't face others because of what you did then you have no backbone to face yourself as to why you did it. Rug sweep it and nobody has to know.
> 
> The DS has no say in the consequences we face for our actions, all we can do is make sure it doesn't happen again to prove to others that you have changed.


Yup - Exactly why I confessed to both families myself with my wife in the room - I knew she needed to see me do it. Still wasn't fun though.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Let her throw a tantrum , she caused this . You can survive her anger you cannot survive the ongoing affair. Have no doubt you have done right by exposing her affair and don't believe her is she blames your exposure for her leaving, her adultery is the reason and all her family and friends know it.

Bide your time , get legal advice and prepare for separation . Run the 180 and stick to your guns , if she does leave it says she would have done so anyway , if she return be firm and unapologetic , don't beg, grovel or be a doormat . If she persists assuming your children are old enough tell them the truth as to why she left.

I have seen many a wayward return to the marriage even after the anger and moving out of the home. Sit tight this may still work out ok
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Because it shows that you can own up to your mistake. That is one of the biggest points you can make to a BS that you can look them in the face and admit to them you screwed up and are willing to not have it happen again.
> 
> And that in turns will show the BS that you truly are sorry for what happened. * If you can't face others because of what you did then you have no backbone to face yourself as to why you did it. * Rug sweep it and nobody has to know.
> 
> The DS has no say in the consequences we face for our actions, all we can do is make sure it doesn't happen again to prove to others that you have changed.


It's not enough to face your betrayed spouse? I'm seriously asking because I was curious about this as well as HerToo.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

My wife wants no one else to know. I'm guessing it will shame her for others to know that she is married to a cheater.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I actually think it would show great strength when people know you lovingly want to work things out with a spouse who did the worst thing any spouse could do to the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm sorry, but this is exactly why I shake my head when I read advice to BS's to tell everyone about what their WS did. And I am a BS. I certainly FELT like telling the whole world what a scumbag he was, but I didn't. Not right away, certainly. I did tell people that we had split up because of infidelity, but that was it, and that was only because there had to be an explanation as to why we weren't living together. I didn't specify who had cheated on whom. It never even crossed my mind to call up his family and tell them what he'd done or to discuss it with them once they found out, because he did tell them himself.

Sure, she caused the problem by lying and cheating, but to turn around and basically betray the person who betrayed you doesn't solve anything. Unless you really do not care about them any more. If you really want to try and make things work, want to truly try and reconcile, I believe that who to tell and when is something that should be a part of that process, and not done indiscriminately by the betrayed partner out of spite and/or in the anger stage.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> It's not enough to face your betrayed spouse? I'm seriously asking because I was curious about this as well as HerToo.


It's part of the healing process , honesty within the marriage and honesty with family and close friends as to why the marriage was in trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> It's part of the healing process , honesty within the marriage and honesty with family and close friends as to why the marriage was in trouble.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't you allow the spouse who had the affair to do that on their own? Why does the BS have to do it?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> I'm sorry, but this is exactly why I shake my head when I read advice to BS's to tell everyone about what their WS did. And I am a BS. I certainly FELT like telling the whole world what a scumbag he was, but I didn't. Not right away, certainly. I did tell people that we had split up because of infidelity, but that was it, and that was only because there had to be an explanation as to why we weren't living together. I didn't specify who had cheated on whom. It never even crossed my mind to call up his family and tell them what he'd done or to discuss it with them once they found out, because he did tell them himself.
> 
> Sure, she caused the problem by lying and cheating, but to turn around and basically betray the person who betrayed you doesn't solve anything. Unless you really do not care about them any more. If you really want to try and make things work, want to truly try and reconcile, I believe that who to tell and when is something that should be a part of that process, and not done indiscriminately by the betrayed partner out of spite and/or in the anger stage.


How do you betray someone by telling the truth? I believe that "telling" is an integral part of the process for a BS who is willing to reconcile. If you don't, then its done with bad intentions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

If the BS feels it's necessary then it's necessary. The CS has no right to be upset or try to tell the BS what is and isn't needed to reconcile. If the BS wants to take out a bill board and advertise it as the CS guess what? If you want to reconcile that's part of the price the spouse you betrayed demands. Cheating sucks, paying the prices is part of price of being stupid. Accepting those prices is part of taking ownership of what you did.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Would you feel betrayed if your spouse told your mother that you think she's a *****, if you really do think she's a *****? That would be the truth.

The truth is not always the best option.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

I can see both sides of the argument - to expose or not to expose. at the same time, i think that it really depends on how deep the wayward is on what is appropriate exposure.

IMHO, if the cheater confesses and comes clean, the exposure can be performed by the cheater, in order to have those closest to the marriage help. 

In this case, she WAS totally wrapped up in self-righteousness, he didn't have much of a choice. Having loved ones aware and supportive of the marriage sure doesn't hurt, in the long term. it also is necessary for the BS to find out who's toxic and who isn't, as some family dynamics facilitate the affairs.

So I guess I'm gonna call BS on those who are enraged about the family exposure in this particular case.

My two centimes - for what its worth.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

HerToo said:


> My wife wants no one else to know. I'm guessing it will shame her for others to know that she is married to a cheater.


This was one of the things I was thinking. In shaming you, she'd be shaming herself, which doesn't help anything.

The affair happened to the two of you in your marriage. I see nothing wrong with keeping it there.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Read hopeeternal's original thread , his wayward wife is far from remorseful and I suspect still in the full throws of the affair . She was angry with him before she knew he exposed . This is part of her manipulating and trying to divert attention from her affair .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> If the BS feels it's necessary then it's necessary. The CS has no right to be upset or try to tell the BS what is and isn't needed to reconcile. If the BS wants to take out a bill board and advertise it as the CS guess what? If you want to reconcile that's part of the price the spouse you betrayed demands. Cheating sucks, paying the prices is part of price of being stupid. Accepting those prices is part of taking ownership of what you did.


I think this is totally wrong. The fact of the cheating is 100% on the WS. But reconciling has GOT to be a joint effort. Whatever is going on in the marriage is a product of BOTH people. Two separate things are happening, and if you throw the WS under a bus, your chances of reconciling are going to be pretty slim.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

No mean to hijack this thread, BTW, anyone who has input as to new functionality for this board - how about subscriptions not just on threads, but on the user. I really hate subscribing to a thread to find out way later that a new thread was opened with the rest of the story playing out. Doesn't keep me efficient and able to use this forum with minimal time.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Dadof3 said:


> I can see both sides of the argument - to expose or not to expose. at the same time, i think that it really depends on how deep the wayward is on what is appropriate exposure.
> 
> IMHO, if the cheater confesses and comes clean, the exposure can be performed by the cheater, in order to have those closest to the marriage help.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. In my case, her family either just turned a blind eye to it or supported her. It doesn't make me feel good to know that our daughter will likely get this type of support when she makes bad choices, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Read hope's original thread , his wayward wife is far from remorseful and I suspect still in the full throws of the affair . She was angry with him before she knew he exposed . This is part of her manipulating and trying to divert attention from her affair .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I still think you need to belay the exposure and give them a chance to do it themselves once they come out of the fog. In most cases anyway. I think that taking out a billboard should be something that is only done if you are prepared to accept that it may be the death blow to the relationship.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> No mean to hijack this thread, BTW, anyone who has input as to new functionality for this board - how about subscriptions not just on threads, but on the user. I really hate subscribing to a thread to find out way later that a new thread was opened with the rest of the story playing out. Doesn't keep me efficient and able to use this forum with minimal time.


Totally agree!!


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Two separate things are happening, and if you throw the WS under a bus, your chances of reconciling are going to be pretty slim.


That's certainly true. Conversely if the BS feels it's necessary then the odds of reconciling without it are also very slim. I would make the distinction here that there is a difference in what is necessary to reconcile and simple punishment. What the BS needs to reconcile they are entitled to and the CS has no right to tell them they are right or wrong. However, if the BS is simply humiliating the CS as punishment then that's wrong and is certainly counter productive to reconciliation.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> I think this is totally wrong. The fact of the cheating is 100% on the WS. But reconciling has GOT to be a joint effort. Whatever is going on in the marriage is a product of BOTH people. Two separate things are happening, and if you throw the WS under a bus, your chances of reconciling are going to be pretty slim.


You seem to confuse the two things. The marital problems are both spouses responsibility. The cheating is all on the ws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Most of the advice given on this board essentially amounts to assuming the marriage is dead and moving on, unless the WW decides to resurrect the marriage through the proper steps, so don't know how it should play out in any other fashion. Each person will only do what they consider to be acceptable in their situation. Notice how many posters have been given the advice and have left because they couldn't follow the advice?

To me that says it all.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> That's certainly true. Conversely if the BS feels it's necessary then the odds of reconciling without it are also very slim. I* would make the distinction here that there is a difference in what is necessary to reconcile and simple punishment.* What the BS needs to reconcile they are entitled to and the CS has no right to tell them they are right or wrong. However, if the BS is simply humiliating the CS as punishment then that's wrong and is certainly counter productive to reconciliation.


Maybe the CS in the OP's situation looks at what he did as just that? How is the CS to know it wasn't retaliation? Or does their opinion even matter at this point? I would think it would if the BS wants a reconciliation and not alienation.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Maybe the CS in the OP's situation looks at what he did as just that? How is the CS to know it wasn't retaliation? Or does their opinion even matter at this point? I would think it would if the BS wants a reconciliation and not alienation.


One more and then I'm stepping out of the thread jack...

The way the CS gets to understand the BS motivations is by communicating with and listening to the BS. The CS opinion about the BS motivations really doesn't matter other than how it factors into how much the CS is willing to take before they decide they have had enough. Regardless the BS always gets the benefit of the doubt here - After all the CS did draw first blood.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Back to the original post.

I hope you two can get back together and continue the R.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> You seem to confuse the two things. The marital problems are both spouses responsibility. The cheating is all on the ws.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's exactly what I meant - sorry if I wasn't clear.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

HerToo said:


> If you were interested in R, why the need to tell others? Isn't it a personal issue between the H and W?.


WTF?

NO. 

The marriage was a personal issue between H and W before one of them chose to bring a 3rd person into it.




HerToo said:


> It would stop me in my tracks of R because of the added shame that comes with it. I'd have to leave the marriage and town.


[captain obvious] That would just be verification of your cowardice and unwillingness to face the consequences of your own actions (affair).[/captain obvious] 

Do you know how f*cking hard it is for most BS's to expose? That is NOT something anyone wants to do. Its' scary, humiliating and puts you in a very vulnerable place. A place no one wants to revisit or go near after having your self esteem and all sense of security DESTROYED by your cheating spouses decision to betray your love and trust. 

Exposure is the single most effective chance you have of saving a marriage the other person put into a terminal crisis. It is an act of love and desperation and takes tremendous courage.

Don't you have a f*cking clue yet?. You have been here long enough, haven't you listened to anything? open your ears, get your head out of your a$$. The clock's ticking bro.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Pit - shoulda used [john tesh] [/john tesh] in place of [captain obvious]. Other than that - you are spot on!


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

It just seems like like you would be pushing you personal problems onto people that have no role in fixing the problem if both the H and W want to fix the problem. If there is no interest in fixing things, do whatever you want then. 

I just see it as a lose/lose situation when R is the goal. I think the original post implies the possibility of what I would be concerned about.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> WTF?
> 
> NO.
> 
> The marriage was a personal issue between H and W before one of them chose to bring a 3rd person into it.


Gotta disagree with this. Suggesting an open marriage would be bringing in a 3rd person. Cheating is not bringing anything into the marriage, it's sucking stuff OUT of the marriage. And the marriage and the cheating quite often have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Do you know how f*cking hard it is for most BS's to expose? That is NOT something anyone wants to do. Its' scary, humiliating and puts you in a very vulnerable place. A place no one wants to revisit or go near after having your self esteem and all sense of security DESTROYED by your cheating spouses decision to betray your love and trust.


I think that for most BS's, exposure would be a very easy thing to do. It's giving in to your fantasies yourself, a form of payback. I have seen MANY BS's talk of what they wanted to do after D day - plastering what their spouse did on a billboard ranks right up there. Sure, some are ashamed, but most eventually hit the anger stage and harbour such desires.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Exposure is the single most effective chance you have of saving a marriage the other person put into a terminal crisis. It is an act of love and desperation and takes tremendous courage..


IMO the single most effective thing you can do is figure out what you really want, for yourself. Exposure isn't an act of courage except perhaps in the case of those who are total doormats. Desperation, sure, but not courage. 

Like I illustrated earlier, truth is not always all it's cracked up to be. It has it's time and place, but after outing a cheating spouse should be a time for making THEM tell the truth. Not taking it upon yourself to do so, if you really want to reconcile.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> The marriage was a personal issue between H and W before one of them chose to bring a 3rd person into it.


Agreed.

A marriage is supposed to be between 2. When a spouse brings a third person into the marriage, any expectation of privacy of the adultery between the 2 is gone. 

There's also nothing to prevent the affair partner from spreading it.


If the BS feels shame, then the WS should own that.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> Gotta disagree with this. Suggesting an open marriage would be bringing in a 3rd person. Cheating is not bringing anything into the marriage, it's sucking stuff OUT of the marriage. And the marriage and the cheating quite often have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't want revenge. I just wanted my ww to get her head out of the clouds. It took me a LONG time to expose. I didn't want to. I tried to do everything I could without it. I figured that if nothing else worked, then why not. What was the worst that could happen? Divorce?

I knew what I wanted. I still know what I want although everyday that passes so does that desire, it seems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

She is so remorseful that she follows up her shameful dishonesty by throwing things at you? The decision to disclose or not, is up to the betrayed spouse I think. Besides the possibility of shame and embarrassment is the price one pays for deception. 

You did not put her at risk, she did it to herself. You actions did not cause your wife to walk away. She cheated and she knew she was wrong and wants to hide. The fact that she was found out is bad luck for her. If she kept her self-control and honor she would have no worries. She should be throwing things at herself. 

I dont think you should take the blame for this nor should you let any words of remorse or sorry cross your lips. If she cannot face the full impact of what she has done and take full responsibility for it, R may not be possible. You should not seek her forgiveness she should seek yours for putting you in a position to have to discuss this with anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Well, I have followed all of the helpful advice here that I can. Had a long talk with the wife today. Her A has definately ended and we were on the edge of starting to rebuild. Discussion of the A with friends and family came up and I told her I had been in contact about it with her mom, sister and my family as well as certain friends. She blew up...I mean really blew up like I have never seen her do. Threw things at me. Said I had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to me, that she would never forgive me and that we were done. She left. I guess we are over.


Call the cops on her and have her charged with battery or assault. She is violent and abusive. Get a restraining order. Who knows what she is capable of.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Can't you allow the spouse who had the affair to do that on their own? Why does the BS have to do it?


99% of the time, the exposure is done while the cheater is actively engaged in the affair. It is pretty widely recognized that exposure to anyone that potentially has influence over the cheater is the most effective tool for halting the cheating. So, it is the loving thing to do. 
Guess that explains why I told our plumber, the cashier at our grocery store, and the barista at Starbucks Just a loving husband trying to save her from herself


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Guess that explains why I told our plumber, the cashier at our grocery store, and the barista at Starbucks Just a loving husband trying to save her from herself


:rofl: That made me laugh!!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> You seem to confuse the two things. The marital problems are both spouses responsibility. The cheating is all on the ws.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not always. Studies have shown that typically , it is the cheater who was responsible for most of the pre-affair problems and was less invested in the marriage. makes sense to me, as, the cheating shows that the person lacked integrity, has poor boundaries and communication skills,and poor problem solving skill. Not exactly the qualities one finds in an ideal partner.
It only takes one party to destroy a marriage. The 50/50 rule is a cliche and lacks specific analysis.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I could see telling others, family, etc., of the affair if it was still going on as an effort to get it to end. But if the affair ended on D-Day for example, and verified that it has in fact ended a short time after, then there is no reason to involve others in the personal matter (my opinion). If the affair starts back up, then all options are on the table.

In the end, the cheater is at the mercy of the BS.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

HE, don't buy into your wife's melodrama of blame shifting for one second. This is a very common reaction from unremorseful, unfaithful spouses. BUT if she again gets to the point of physically attacking and wounding you, DO NOT for one second hesitate calling the police to haul her a$$ to jail for domestic violence. 

Consider also implementing the 180 degrees rules. They are for your emotional empowerment and well being, NOT to manipulate your WW to get religion and committ to do the heavy lifting of marital reconciliation.

Take care of yourself physically and surround yourself with people who truly care for your well being.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

HerToo said:


> I could see telling others, family, etc., of the affair if it was still going on as an effort to get it to end. But if the affair ended on D-Day for example, and verified that it has in fact ended a short time after, then there is no reason to involve others in the personal matter (my opinion). If the affair starts back up, then all options are on the table.
> 
> In the end, the cheater is at the mercy of the BS.


The situation here is , however, that affair was going on when he exposed.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

That part was a little unclear to me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Well, I have followed all of the helpful advice here that I can. Had a long talk with the wife today. Her A has definately ended and we were on the edge of starting to rebuild. Discussion of the A with friends and family came up and I told her I had been in contact about it with her mom, sister and my family as well as certain friends. She blew up...I mean really blew up like I have never seen her do. Threw things at me. Said I had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to me, that she would never forgive me and that we were done. She left. I guess we are over.


How did she convince you the affair was over. I thought it might be, but after this show, it looks like a load of bu!! sh!t.

Man up and let her do most of the talking. Rmember you don't have to tell her everything you know. It looks like you keep talking yourself into trouble.

Its ridiculus to think you wouldn't be talking to the people you were talking to anyway. 

Get strong. Be the rock for your familiies sake. You were warned this was going to be a roller coaster ride.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

HerToo said:


> I could see telling others, family, etc., of the affair if it was still going on as an effort to get it to end. But if the affair ended on D-Day for example, and verified that it has in fact ended a short time after, then there is no reason to involve others in the personal matter (my opinion). If the affair starts back up, then all options are on the table.
> 
> In the end, the cheater is at the mercy of the BS.


What you're overlooking is that these affairs often start right back up when the "heat" is off. When the BS is focused on working through it, the WS goes underground and resumes the affair.

This forum is slopping over with threads in false recovery and underground affair continuation, so exposure often slows or keeps that from happening. 

Also, with exposure, one of the 2 waywards will often choose to work on their marriage and throw their affair partner under the bus. This helps to wake the other wayward up to reality.

If it is kept all secret, the om or ow's spouse may not know what was going on and they deserve to know and have the option to consider std testing for the safety of their OWN LIFE.

Their own spouse chose to put their family in that position, not the person who eventually exposes, so any pain, suffering or fallout is the fault of and should fall upon their own wayward spouse.

Q~


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Discussion of the A with friends and family came up and I told her I had been in contact about it with her mom, sister and my family as well as certain friends. She blew up...I mean really blew up like I have never seen her do. Threw things at me. Said I had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to me, that she would never forgive me and that we were done.


I call bull. You telling other people is your right. You were put in an emotionally hard position by her where you needed the support of others that you could not go to her for. It is her fault and she is blame shifting. 

For her to actually say that by doing this you "had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to" you shows that she has no remorse for her affair. The R she was offering was a false R. She actually expected you to forgive her for the affair as if it was no big deal, but you telling others was unforgivable by her. Wow she is really an unbelievable piece of work. You are right that it is over but not because you told others, but because she is not remorseful.


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## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

Clearly, if your SO is in an affair that lasts for more than a day, the ONLY reason he or she is interested in "R" is purely financial.
The OP has been dangling on her rope for the duration and his only chance for sanity is to let his WS swing in the wind.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

TRy said:


> I call bull. You telling other people is your right. For her to actually say that by doing this you "had betrayed her worse than anything she had done to" you shows that she has no remorse for her affair. The R she was offering was a false R. She actually expected you to forgive her for the affair as if it was no big deal but you telling others was unforgivable by her.
> 
> You are right that it is over but not because you told others, but because she is not remorseful.


I totally agree with it not ending because of his actions. I read an interesting post awhile back about real remorse and what it is and isn't. Its not '"I'm sorry I hurt you", its "I'm sorry I did it". One takes responsibility. One doesnt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

I am a cheater - so feel free to discount my opinion if you chose.

I think it is the BS right to do with the affair information as they please. 

I can tell you as a WS, it really doesn't help. You can tell everyone or not, but the issues we have in my marriage would need to be addressed between us. Whether my mother, father, siblings know or not is irrelevant. You can tell them all what a piece of sh*t I am for this terrible decision - then what - they'll ask why? Now granted there is no justification but will probable lead into a conversation about other marital problems that precipitated an affair. I just don't see what benefit it serves. 

My wife and I haven't had sex in 4 years.....should I tell her dad that? Her sister.... Alert my mom?

We've had a number of challenges in our marriage, some are resolved, and others (obviously) are not. The last thing I need is the involvement and opinions of my crazy a$$ relatives. Please NO.

Do whatever you want, but I am of the mind that spouses have to find their way back home together. We can hang a banner in the lawn about my infidelity, but I don't see it doing anything more than complicating what is already a near insurmountable road to recovery for most.

Obviously the BS can do as they please......but I'd suggest considering your desired outcome and whether your actions help or hurt. Filing first, 180, etc. I see the value i that - this.......nope.


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

Find the other mans wife and expose the affair.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

For one thing exposure often occurs and helps to end the affair so it is not always an after the fact thing. It can help the affair from being restarted. It is part of stamping out the embers of an affair. Others can assist in making sure they do not re-enable the affair. Affairs die in the light.

It takes time to go through withdrawal. Other people knowing can be very helpful. yes it is embarrassing, but the focus of the WS should be on doing th ehavy lifting to mend the relationship. This is really a very good step towards that.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm so sorry HE that your wife reacted the way she did, her reaction seems to show she is not truly remorseful and serious about R. Like other posters have suggested, it's doubtful she ended the affair or at least had not planned to end it permanently.

As far as exposing, I do feel it should be up to the BS. On d-day my world turned inside out and upside down, I was suddenly married to a stranger. I felt lost and needed support. I told one girlfriend I trusted, then a few more, and finally my mother-in-law. My husband wanted to R and had told me the decision to expose was mine. If I wanted a billboard, I could have one. I didn't want revenge, I just needed help. 

I was very careful with who I told, because If we did R I didn't want the world to know. It is embarassing and makes the BS feel like $#!t to expose. Everytime I told someone, I had to relive d-day through their shock and sadness. It sucks. To question the BS's motives in exposure is to not understand what it feels like to live through this kind of betrayal IMHO.

To expect a BS to carry the burden of betrayal alone is asking too much, because on d-day I felt totally alone. Whether the CS is remorseful or not, the affair strips the BS of all trust they had in their spouse and their own judgement. The vulnerability you feel is indescribable. Having a support system outside of my marriage is what I needed to move forward and start healing. Even while focused on surviving day to day, I kept the possible future in mind. I only told people I trusted to support me and whatever decision I made regarding R. I didn't want my H to become an outcast, regardless of what happened to our marriage. He's the father of my children and I want more for my children than a pariah for a Dad.

So my advice when it comes to exposure, is to take a deep breath and think of the future. Consider the mindset of the CS and what type of exposure is needed. Do what you feel is right for you and your marriage. A truly remorseful spouse should understand the BS's needs regarding exposure. My H was willing to tell the world, I was the one that said no. But his willingness to do that for me helped show he was sincere in his desire to R.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

What your wife is experiencing is what kept people in society from cheating on each other (at least to some degree).....SHAME. Good. There should be more of it. Like the lady who got drunk at the football game and banged some stranger in the bathroom and got arrested. That was shameful. And so was what your wife did. It removed all outside trappings and exposed her character. If she doesn't get over it, it only shows her self centered view of things. You wouldn't want to be married to someone like that anyways. Just relax, 180, keep a good attitude, don't beg plead or apologize. If she brings it up. Tell her your sorry she feels that way. Choices have consequences.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

There are a couple of good reasons to expose. For starters, you found out that you WS isn't really that into making you R work. Why get all emotionally invested just to be gaslighted? That said, don't be suprised when she slinks back. 

Her reaction is most likely due to her realization that she can't just start up the R with dirtbag as soon as she gets a seret phone, email, whatever after the heat is off. You have shone the light on it for all to see. 

Exposure takes away to the option of your wayward starting up the fantasy again if attemps at R don't work. 

Marriage vows are taken in public, not sure why anyone has a problem with a victim of infidelity telling the very same people who stood with you on your wedding day that those public vows have been broken.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm guessing the first person she got in contact with was the other man. She may be in denial that they were even having an affair since ,as far as we know, they have not consumated the affair. BUT they had plans to meet.

The other mans wife needs to be told........That way the other man can effectively be taken out of the picture since his little plan has gone haywire. The only one who doesn't know what he was really after is your wife.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

OK, here is the update:

She returned like fifteen minutes later and laid into me...you know finger in the face stuff. But then it mellowed down and we began to talk about it. Did I cave and fall off the 180 bus...a little bit yes. Here is the thing. SHE is so confused right now that she really has no idea what to do. She has feelings for the guy but wrote to him, exposed the feelings and said she needed to ends the affair for HER because she needs to get her s$%t together. What she got back (and this is all according to her remember, but I can TELL when my wife is being sincere) was that he was not leaving his marriage, he had no feelings for her so adios. She was humiliated by her own lover!
She does NOT feel remorse for this A and indeed told me she wished it could have gone PA just once because she would have known if her feelings were real, lust, or if she could have even gone through with it. OK, that HURTS but you know what I can understand what she is saying. She was NOT getting what she needed in our marriage, and I am happy to talk about that more because it will clarify WHY the A started in the first place.
How did I cave? Well, let me be clear about something first. By contacting these folks I was following advise from here and articles I have been reading. It did not FEEL right to do it but since I have been doing all the WRONG things I thought contacting them was one of the right things. So what I did was this: I offered to call her family and say I was wrong, that it was not an A. I did this, but worded it so carefully that both Mom and Sister were able to read between my lines. They understood clearly that I said I would call about it and tell them I was wrong, it was not an A but something else. Both of them said "OK, got ya, not an A but we all know it was..." OK, not rock solid but it was a compromise. Wife's point (and one well taken) was that if I had waited just one more day to call them I would have known that the A had ended and would not have had to call them as part of an intervention. Fair enough.
What now? Ground rules. We have to stay in the same house for financial reasons but we will live separate lives (not unlike we have been doing for a long time) while she decides if R is even possible. No sex, her choice. We keep up appearances for the kids, especially the youngest. We go out when we want, but no "dating" or "hooking up." I told her I want R and will work hard for it but understand that the chances are paper thin. The main thing we BOTH need is time (which is hard for me because I want this pain to STOP) to figure things out. I think she is still planning on seeing the councilor. I will also keep my appt. She does not want MC right now.
I did ask her what happens if OM writes and expresses his undying love or wants to start the A again. She said he wouldn't and even if writes she will not answer. She wants time to think for herself with no men in her life. I truly believe that. So, we will see where this goes.
Am I weak and a doormat for all this? Maybe, but I know my wife and if I put too much pressure on she will end the M. Since that is the LAST thing I want I will have to be a bit giving where I feel it is necessary. Afterall, that IS what M is about. Will it crush me again when she says she can't stay married? Probably but at least I know that I gave it one last shot.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Make sure you ask your wife, the one that cheated, if it is okay for you to use the bathroom, too.
I've seen beta males, but this takes the cake.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Arnold, you always know the right things to say =)

Bottom line here is that time is what we need. I agree with her that we both have issues to figure out on our own before we can even think about US. The deal here is that I will continue on. There are complexities here that cannot be rushed. It gives us both time to get past the A. It gives me time to figure out what to do with a failing business and a career that is in the toilet as well. Sometimes it is better to go Beta IN SOME things. I have to follow my own gut instincts and know when to be 180 and when that will only make matters worse. I cannot force my wife to do anything she is not ready to do. Nor can I force her to love me. I understand these things, I have lived with her for 18 years. She has to come to her own conclusions and she always takes time to analyze. Forcing things to be done immediately is really only making matters worse. Time and only time will tell where we go from here.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I have no problem with you taking time to decide whether to divorce. But, WTF, you allow a cheater to throw things at you and stick her finger in your face, then dictate what is to be done.

I am telling you, and I am no Don Juan by any means, probably more beta than a lot of guys. But, you allow your wife to treat you like dirt, and that will never make you attractive to her.

This woman sounds like a tyrant and you should , probably, stop putting up with this crap.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

I agree Arnold. But my description of her on this forum is only about the bad things. She is not a one dimensional character. She is also very kind, she is fun, she is intelligent, and she is a good mother. Yes she has a temper but usually her anger IS justified. Yes she cheated, twice. Yes it was a poor decision on her part. In reality though this latest A may have been good for her...I believe it scared the hell out of her because SHE developed feelings that she did not expect. She had no control over it. She believed that there was one true love for each person until this...because she was falling in love with this guy (or thought she was). She has been disillusioned and needs time to figure it out. Maybe, if the cards are played right, she will realize that even though things were FAR from great with us that I am really the one man who can understand her, that I am solid, that I am a good father...because I am. For my part I intend to make HUGE changes in my behavior...not for her but for me. I do not like the guy I was for the past 14 years. Trying to figure out if it was a mid-life crisis for me, or if it is some core behavior that needs more work. And in reality she needs to do the same thing. She is not sure if this mid-life crisis for her either. In the end of course after we change our behavior we still may not like the other person. That is fine and again, I have lost nothing in becoming a better person.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Who cares what the wayward spouse thinks. Tough sh!t. If they want to leave let them. That's the whole thing. You got to be able to let go. She brought this on your marriage. She doesn't want to deal, move on.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

HE, do yourself a favor, click on the link below *No More Mr Nice Guy* and download a free copy of the book. It is not a woman bashing book by any stretch of the imagination but an empowerment manual for all men. Read it and you may be surprised how some of your bad behavior can be attributed to you being a 'Nice Guy'. Good luck.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Kobo, yes she did bring this on. I can tell you though that this was a symptom of the marriage. Yep, she has to own it 100% and I have laid that law down. But I really don't think she wants D. She as told that to her mother. I am actually sitting in a good place, believe it or not. Yep its painful, no doubt about that. We will see where it goes from here. I am not going to give up on this marriage until she is clear whether she wants to work on it or not. If she decides its over, she is the failure, not me. If she decides to work on it and it still falls apart, then we tried. Neither of us know where our heads are at right now. Maybe, a few weeks or months from now I will decide its not worth it and file. BUT I am not doing any of that right now. I am going to wait and see because my marriage is worth it to ME. I can afford to give it time. So, I HAVE let it go in the sense that it will be what it is. I also understand that WE don't know what it is and until we do no knee jerk reactions are going to help. Yep, more than anything else in the world I want this to work out but I understand that in all likelihood it won't. But I am Hope Eternal.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Morituri, I will have a look at it. Yes, I already know that much of my own bad behavior is due to being the Nice Guy. I am a pleaser, never want to rock the boat. The problem is that when I don't PERCEIVE that I am getting what I need back for nice deeds, I get resentful and angry. When that builds long enough it comes out in inappropriate ways. But I look forward to reading the book.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Hope, part of the problem with the terms you let her set, is that you have given up any ability to make sure this one stays dead, and the ability to stop the next one.

What I mean is you have not gotten full transparency from her. All you got was her saying she won't continue wth hom, and then her living a parallel yet separate life including secrets. She already has shown she will lie to have him, and she is so deep that she actually thought it is ok to tell her husband that she regrets not sleeping with him. She has no remorse for the affair, only not having cheated evebpn more.

So what you have achieved s some exposure, which you recanted, and her now having the freedom to do what she wants. Oh, and she now has you warned off from taking any more action against the affair.

So how will you know if she hooks up with him? What will you do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

Each of us need to handle our problems in our own way. There's a myriad of different approaches in this thread, alone, but I have read nothing that would make me think that I should find out whatever bridge my ex and her stud may be living under and offer a helping hand.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> OK, here is the update:
> 
> She returned like fifteen minutes later and laid into me...you know finger in the face stuff. But then it mellowed down and we began to talk about it. Did I cave and fall off the 180 bus...a little bit yes. Here is the thing. SHE is so confused right now that she really has no idea what to do. She has feelings for the guy but wrote to him, exposed the feelings and said she needed to ends the affair for HER because she needs to get her s$%t together. What she got back (and this is all according to her *remember, but I can TELL when my wife is being sincere*) was that he was not leaving his marriage, he had no feelings for her so adios. She was humiliated by her own lover!


Do you honestly believe this, or is it just something you want to believe to help you sleep at night?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

By your own admission the odds of R were paper thin. Sorry to say but your actions here lowered those odds. As much as backing down when you were in the right prevents a fight in the here and now, it also prevents her form respecting you as a person. Without this respect, you will loser her in the end.

She wants the other man because he was willing to tell her to get lost. She wants the other man because he has earned her respect. You needed to stand up to her. You needed to be willing to tell her to get lost just like the other man did. You needed to lay down the law, but you let her do that instead.

She told you that the affair was over, but you have no proof of this. With the new rules in place, you cannot verify that it is over. With the new rules in place, she did not even do anything wrong. With the new rules in place, she has no remorse for her affair because you were in the wrong. This weakness is why you were losing her to the OM in the first place. You have gone back to doing the same old things that lost her in the first place. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. 

You just blew it bigger than you can imagine.


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## At wits end (Aug 10, 2011)

TRy said:


> By your own admission the odds of R were paper thin. Sorry to say but your actions here lowered those odds. As much as backing down when you were in the right prevents a fight in the here and now, it also prevents her form respecting you as a person. Without this respect, you will loser her in the end.
> 
> She wants the other man because he was willing to tell her to get lost. She wants the other man because he has earned her respect. You needed to stand up to her. You needed to be willing to tell her to get lost just like the other man did. You needed to lay down the law, but you let her do that instead.
> 
> ...


Totally agree!!!!! I am a recently recovering nice guy and am not in a great position to be commenting on this but you might as well put a big a$& Welcome sign on your chest and lay down at the front door!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Oh boy.......I'm going to refrain from saying what I probably should..


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

Do u behave like doormat while doing business also.Come on be a leader not a follower for success in both your personal life and professional life.

Be a man who has self respect and ready to face problems in life.U really need to MAN UP.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It is clear that she has no respect for you whatsoever and she feeds off of this. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Be vigilant and careful. At this moment in time, your wife prefers the OM to you. He could reel her back in so easily, especially if the OMW does not know of the A. Fishing is common after an affair ends, by either AP. 

I'm surprised you say you can tell when your wife is being sincere. If someone can look you in the face and boldly lie, then they can feign sincerity. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're in a little of your own fog about the affair situation. Speaking as a BS, and almost a year since d-day, I would not be able to make the statement that I can tell when my spouse is being sincere. I think he's being sincere and hope he is, but there's doubt. There's doubt because the reality of his betrayal hit me like a mack truck. It left no room for denial of the situation and what he was capable of doing. He knows this and is doing the heavy lifting to prove to me that he's sincere, but it's going to take time. Honestly, I don't think I'll ever be able to comfortably say "I can TELL when my H is being sincere" because I believed it once and was fooled.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but worry you're setting yourself up to be hurt over and over again. You still trust your wife, because you believe what she's telling you. She doesn't deserve trust, but she's getting it anyway. She knows she doesn't deserve trust and now knows how to wield it. Your wife is in a prime position to abuse her power, because you've given her that too.

I sometimes think getting hit by the Infidelity Mack Track on d-day was the best thing for me, because it made me stronger. I didn't believe my husband during the trickle truth and am so glad I was strong. Within 24 hours he confessed the PA portion of the affair and within 3 days he confessed to a previous affair from 10 years ago. I still believe it was my H's fear of losing me on d-day that made him snap out of the fog. If he didn't fear losing me or was ambivilant about divorce, then he would not have been worthy of keeping me. If you don't value yourself, than your spouse isn't going to either.


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

This is NOT your wife. It is a stranger and you need to treat her so. Business only and nothing about feelings you have for her. And man up. Do you take orders or let strangers speak and treat you the way she is doing? Somewhere in there feelings about yourself should start to take over and you no longer treat her as if you care about her. Act upon those. Stop giving in to her, about anything. You live for you now. She doesn't deserve for you to care about her, in anyway. You start acting like this and she in turn will change her tune as well. Almost guaranteed.

Edit: And if she doesn't begin to leave the fog and still hates you, then get the f*ck out of there. Why be with someone like that anyway?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

One thing to consider is that you are not getting this advice re being more assertive and standing up for yourself from a bunch of , historically, super alpha males. I used tothink that stuff was Bs about alpha/beta. I though being an alpha meant you needed to be some type of tryanical, juvenile badboy.
You do not have to be nasty or an a-hole. Just firmly stand your ground.

Hope, your wife has now cheated on you twice. She is not a good person, goodmom and all the other stuff youvsay about her, but you cannot see it. She is a dishonest, abusive, violent a-hole.
Hitler like his dogs. So, he was a good guy, right?


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

HE: You need to change your name to CuckEternal. Sorry man. I can see the POV you are sharing, but, this isn't gonna work!


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## ThinhMan (Oct 14, 2011)

I fear something very bad happen. HE is not even to come back here.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think he needs to hit his wife with a 2 x 4. Figuratively speaking.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes all that you folks say has truth in it and I do value what you are saying. Right now she and I both need to sort through things and see where we are as people and as a couple. I am going to let this be for a while. I do not have to resolve this today. I DO think I am in a fog and I also need time to clear my head.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You're not getting it. By not being proactive against her behavior you are in fact giving tacit approval to it. The longer she gets away with it the more entrenched in it she will be and the lower your odds of successfully changing her behavior. 

"On the plains of hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of decision, sat down to wait, and waiting died."
Sam Ewing

What is there really to think about??


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Hopeeternal said:


> We go out when we want, but no "dating" or "hooking up."


She will break this rule at the first opportunity. She agreed with it to keep you in line but rest assured, she already cheated once so she isn't going to pass on chance to do it again considering she isn't remorseful.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Yea, agreements are good, generally, but how are you going to verify with the agreement in place?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Yes all that you folks say has truth in it and I do value what you are saying. Right now she and I both need to sort through things and see where we are as people and as a couple. I am going to let this be for a while. I do not have to resolve this today. I DO think I am in a fog and I also need time to clear my head.


Take your time but stand up to this tyrant.

And, may I suggest a little aroma therapy, chanting, and petuly oil(shoud fit nicely in the man purse, which matches your beret).


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> You're not getting it. By not being proactive against her behavior you are in fact giving tacit approval to it. The longer she gets away with it the more entrenched in it she will be and the lower your odds of successfully changing her behavior.
> 
> "On the plains of hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of decision, sat down to wait, and waiting died."
> Sam Ewing
> ...


And, in the words of Sam's illegitimate son, J.R., "That woman is a biatch".


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> HE, do yourself a favor, click on the link below *No More Mr Nice Guy* and download a free copy of the book. It is not a woman bashing book by any stretch of the imagination but an empowerment manual for all men. Read it and you may be surprised how some of your bad behavior can be attributed to you being a 'Nice Guy'. Good luck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Also get "Love Busters" and its follow up "His Needs Her Needs"
Assuming your still speaking read these together. 

She told you youwere a doormat. Do you thjink she lookedat the other man as a doormat. You can pull this off but not as a nice little wuss.

Shes begging for leadership. If you don't get moving fast she will be checking other men to see if its just lust.

You ssid you had almost quit having sex with her because of the way she treated you. You need to get back in tha saddle as soon as possible. Hormones during sex binds partners together. Let her be in a fog over you. Start dating her. Most marriages fail when they let the romance evaporate.

You can do this because your smart and your family needs you.

I want to know when you get these books and start doing your homework. You've busted (I hope) the affair now get on with rebuilding your lives.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks Chaparral, I downloaded the book and will read it this weekend. I am currently reading "surviving the Affair" by Kevin Jackson. We actually had a another great talk. The way I worded things to her mother and sister worked well actually because they talked to her yesterday...and she was pretty angry that they did not "believe" me when i told them it was not an affair. None-the-less this whole thing will come down to whether she still loves me. She lost those feelings for me some time ago, but I think they are still there or she would have left a long time ago. She NOW admits she crossed the line and I am starting to see real remorse, not just "sorry I hurt you." It will take time folks. And, frankly, I don't think I have backed down at all. I won't cry in front of her, I am firm in my stance about the A and told her yesterday that if it starts again I am gone. I also told her that I need to figure out whether its worth my time to keep investing in a one-way marriage. THAT shocked her, at least by the look on her face. She is STILL concerned that I will contact OMW and for now I want to keep using that tool in that manner. Meanwhile, I am basically ignoring her. Short, but not nasty, responses to texts (mainly things like "do I need to get the kids?"). I am giving her all the space she wants, and as much as possible while we both have to be in the same house. We still sleep in the same bed to keep up appearance for the kids, but ground rule: NO touching.

Arnold, as for my Man Purse, I left it with my little black dress. C'mon man!


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## stupad (Jul 11, 2011)

HE . . . just reading through these posts I'm thinking either:

1. You just really like getting abused (from your wife, these guys on TAM or anyone else who may come by) . . . or

2. You're way tougher than you've come across so far and once you find both your nuts and set things straight in your marriage, your wife won't be able to keep her hands off you or you'll leave her and start enjoying your life.

This really is a decision you have to make. 

And I think doing the 'wait and see what happens route' will default you to Choice #1.

Good luck.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

You are a good guy, Hope. Just trying to get you pissed, as you should be.


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Believe me, I am pissed. But I also realize that there were many things I did that put her in a position where she felt she needed to have the A. NO it was not my fault that she did it, that was her choice. But it takes two to tango folks. She is wanting R, but she has to make the decision to invest in the marriage. I told her that. I also told her I am not waiting forever for her to decide what she wants. This is really NOT about the A, this is about where our marriage is and is not. The A had to be gotten out of the way before we could address that issue. The A is over and I am taking steps to make sure it stays over so that she has time to start thinking clearly about whether our marriage is worth reinventing. I already KNOW that it is but the fact is I won't wait around forever. I have accepted the very likely possibility that it is over and I will have to let her go. She is not the only major issue in my life right now. I am also trying to save a dying business and resurrect a 25 year career with the likelihood that I won't be able to do that either and will end up with no family and looking for a job outside my field at 49 years old. Not a pleasant thought by any stretch of the imagination. So YES I am going to work to keep what I have until it is absolutely clear to me that it is not possible. THAT does not make me weak. It in fact goes to a strong character and one that will not simply give up the ship because there is a major leak and it is sinking. It makes me a stronger person than my wife. I was not the weak one who sought comfort and distraction from a bad marriage by finding someone else. So no more of this business of being weak and this will end in disaster. The disaster has already happened and has been building for many years. There is a chance, slim but a chance, to set it aright again and I am going to do that. I have accepted the fact that it probably won't work, but then so did the Wright Brothers and we are still flying today.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Hopeeternal said:


> The way I worded things to her mother and sister worked well actually because they talked to her yesterday...and she was pretty angry that they did not "believe" me when i told them it was not an affair.


I havent been able to read everything, is this a typo or did you tell them your W was NOT having an affair and they didnt believe you?




Hopeeternal said:


> None-the-less this whole thing will come down to whether she still loves me.


lol. No, it won't. It will come to does she respect you. Does she want to reconcile your relationship based on wanting to be with you. That has to be for the right reasons, not because shes scared, comfortable, or pieces parts of lots of other disfunctional reasons. She doesnt want to be with the guy you have been, she cheated on that guy and she felt like she had reasons. 



Hopeeternal said:


> She lost those feelings for me some time ago, but I think they are still there or she would have left a long time ago. She NOW admits she crossed the line and I am starting to see real remorse, not just "sorry I hurt you."


Sounds like your being managed bro.



Hopeeternal said:


> She is STILL concerned that I will contact OMW and for now I want to keep using that tool in that manner.


This is so F*CKED up on so many levels, I cant quite get my head round it... 

So your cohersing her using the threat of telling the OMW ??? and you think that will hold up? F*ck doing the 'right thing' BECAUSE it is the right thing.... Instead, you really think you are going to hold that over her head to "get/keep her in line" ? 

I'm not even going into the fact that if it does scare her so much that you think its a commodity you need to hold onto to manipulate the process... that would just be an indication of continued feelings for him and fear of hurting him... THOSE consequences actually scare her... Its like f*ck you, she betrayed you (her H) but the thought that the affair truth might hurt him, or this 'fantasy future' she's likely concocted in her head w/him that she is truly fearful of that ??

God, wait a minute I cant get my head around this at all... WTF are you serious dude?? Too early, Maybe I need more coffee... My head can't be working right... I'll check back in when my head clears... I must be misreading something...


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## Hopeeternal (Oct 28, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach, yes it is f%$#ed up in so many ways. I can't get MY head around it either. My deal here is that I came seeking advice and help. You all have given it the best way you know how. It is up to me to decide what advice to take and what not to take. No, I do NOT like being abused by anyone. I am an educated man, have lots of degrees hanging on my wall but the fact is that this is my first rodeo with this kind of thing and I do NOT know how to handle it nor do I know what advice is sound and what advice just won't work in my situation. Some of it has worked. Some of it has had the exact oposite effect. This is still fresh and hurting badly. So yes, you may be right. By the time she decides that R is what she wants I may tell her to go fck herself. The thing I do not want to do right now is make any more stupid decisions. Things are in limbo right now. Not because of the A but because she has to decide whether this can be worked on. This limbo will allow me some time to heal a bit and figure out what I want to do too. I simply am not going to move forward with anything right now. If that is wrong well it is wrong, it won't be the first mistake I have made that ended up coming back on me and it surely won't be the last.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

HE - from another thread running concurrent to yours... It just seemed appropriate...

I was in an EA to, and Entropy is 1000% correct in what he posted below.



Entropy3000 said:


> I was in an EA so I am telling you the straight deal. I know how it is. Until she goes through withdrawal she will not being able to think straight. It is chemical. It took me six weeks to withdraw and I was no where near doing what they are doing. So it may take her longer.
> 
> Do not be reflective right. be agressive. Kill the affair at all costs and then there will be time to reflect and mend. That takes time as well.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Hopeeternal said:


> None-the-less this whole thing will come down to whether she still loves me. She lost those feelings for me some time ago, but I think they are still there or she would have left a long time ago.


Don't be so sure, she may just be afraid to be alone.

I believe there's a saying: "A person who is their own lawyer has a fool for a client" or something like that. I know you want to do things your own way and on your own timescale but the advice most people are giving is spot on and you may end up wishing you took it later once the dust settles.

We've been there, done that and many are projecting what we wished we should have done on you. Personally, I was like you and did things my way instead of taking the advice. I'd hate for you to regret your decisions like I did mine.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

marksaysay said:


> This is normal. Anyone who finds out their dirty secret is no longer a secret will be mad. If she is worried about what people thunk of her, all she has to do is express true remorse and contrition, make positive steps in the right direction, and people can and will usually forgive.
> 
> She's not really mad at you, in my opinion. She's mad at herself for the person she'd become and that others now know it. All she has to do is no longer be that person.
> 
> ...


Absolutely 100 percent agreed! :iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Are you going to expose to OMW or are you waiting for next year to roll around and be another year older???


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopeeternal said:


> Thanks Chaparral, I downloaded the book and will read it this weekend. I am currently reading "surviving the Affair" by Kevin Jackson. We actually had a another great talk. The way I worded things to her mother and sister worked well actually because they talked to her yesterday...and she was pretty angry that they did not "believe" me when i told them it was not an affair. None-the-less this whole thing will come down to whether she still loves me. She lost those feelings for me some time ago, but I think they are still there or she would have left a long time ago. She NOW admits she crossed the line and I am starting to see real remorse, not just "sorry I hurt you." It will take time folks. And, frankly, I don't think I have backed down at all. I won't cry in front of her, I am firm in my stance about the A and told her yesterday that if it starts again I am gone. I also told her that I need to figure out whether its worth my time to keep investing in a one-way marriage. THAT shocked her, at least by the look on her face. She is STILL concerned that I will contact OMW and for now I want to keep using that tool in that manner. Meanwhile, I am basically ignoring her. Short, but not nasty, responses to texts (mainly things like "do I need to get the kids?"). I am giving her all the space she wants, and as much as possible while we both have to be in the same house. We still sleep in the same bed to keep up appearance for the kids, but ground rule: NO touching.
> 
> Arnold, as for my Man Purse, I left it with my little black dress. C'mon man!




Well I think you sound much stronger and more confident. Other posters do not seem to be impressed and I hope they are wrong.

One thing I'm sure of is you have to use every tool possible to verify no contact and any other wayward behavior (GNOs etc.)
Good luck on the marriage and the business. Be strong and don't falter.


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