# My H failed to come to my rescue



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

My H is too kind and sometimes I feel he throws me under the bus to protect other people's feelings. I have posted a few times here how he protects his exGF's; we've mostly worked that out in accordance with standard advice here--no more exes are invited into our marriage. For which, thank you all.

But now something else has come up.

A few months ago, I had a falling out with a volunteer medical organization we both work for. In fact we are among the original founders. Due to personality differences, two others in the group basically decided to get rid of me. Power stuff, whatever. They held a secret meeting in which they made things up and trashed me. They invited everyone but me and my H. Later, the others who were roped into this unfortunate gathering called me privately to apologize. But the damage had been done. I was devastated by the injustice and the need for inventing supposed "bad things" I had done which, if you knew me, you would know right away those things were totally out of character. Hence the apologies from others who know me well. 

When I found out who the gangleaders were I called them personally to work things out. Yeah, right. One of them (a man) said quite nastily that "the group" had "decided" I was planning to steal all the medical supplies. In reality, my H & I store the supplies. When other volunteers don't show up, we always do, 100% of the time, so of course we had the supplies. To be accused of stealing the supplies is laughable. Sadly, my own H was implicated in this as well, which really burned me up.

When I told H that this had happened his attitude was "they're dysfunctional, don't let it get to you" and that he would continue to work with the group although if I was uncomfortable, I should leave. 

I said, "Do you realize what they said about me? the lies they made up?" I went into a terrible depression and spent a month unable to eat, and lost weight, and when I tried to eat I would get sick. That's how hurt I was. (The pain was so bad I considered checking into a hospital.)

And H would go off to the meetings and functions anyway. 

I would say, "How can you be around people who have deliberately trashed me?" He said, "It was about you, not me."

Finally, after a month of that, I convinced him that being accused of stealing the supplies implicated him. Somehow I got my point across and he confronted the man who had said that to me, and that man then apologized to me personally, saying he knew it wasn't true, blaming his past drug use for making him impulsive and lowering his self-control. He also apologized to H. 

I was intensely grateful to H for forcing that apology. It was very healing. I liked knowing that H had had a man-to-man talk with that jerk who had then been forced to recant his nonsense. I felt protected at last, at least on that count.

Meanwhile, however, the other damage continued. I was ostracized because other volunteers were so intimidated by the gangleaders who ousted me. In private, I continued to receive apologies and several volunteers left the group in disgust, but NO ONE would stand up to those two "gangleaders." The group became very small and those two got more and more power. I remained sick to my stomach at this development.

And H did nothing. He acted as if it was perfectly okay for our fledgling organization to have been intimidated by two people into spreading lies about me and shutting me out of a group that H and I were instrumental in founding. We have put a lot of money and hard work in the group too. 

H goes to the meetings and to our events as if everything is hunky-dory. I feel unprotected by him. He hangs out with those people as if it's perfectly okay for them to have done such damage. Neither of the gangleaders has apologized to me (beyond that specific item) although every other person at that original meeting has done so and/or left the group as a reaction.

It seems that my H is okay with me simply giving up and leaving a group I helped start "if I can't stand the stress," while he continues to hang out with people who have been intentionally cruel to me. 

What do I want him to do? I am bewildered that he did not confront those people immediately: "You said WHAT about my wife???" He actually has a lot of pull in the group, he just can't always make it to meetings and mostly just does a lot of the "real work." So he thinks he's somehow separate from the petty relations within the group. How can he continue to work side by side with people who were "drinking and laughing while they joked about" getting rid of me with lies, which is what one witness told me?

I have spent the past five months getting counseling for this and although I feel much clearer and stronger about why these people did what they did, the part I can't get over is how H did not come to my defense. He was willing to let me twist in the wind and pretend nothing had happened. I had to deal with a lot of fear as a result of having gone to him and gotten no response, no defense, no protection. I felt abandoned by him. I felt he was a wimp. It looked to me as if he had silently given the group permission to spread lies about me and who I am. 

FYI, I am more or less back working with the group but now I see them for what they are (counseling has been very helpful). My H, besides exacting that one specific apology, did nothing to help me through this most painful episode in my life. It has affected my interest in him sexually. I no longer feel safe with him the way I did before. I feel betrayed. Does that make sense?


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

This really sucks, and I'm sorry you went through so much with these people. 

I'm sorry that I don't have any advice, but you do have my sympathy. My husband is like this, but my issue was sleep. Our younger daughter was an awful sleeper, and she had me up hourly all night long until she was almost 4. I felt like I was dying. Like you, I lost weight (I'm 5'5" and I weigh barely 110 lbs now. It's ridiculous.) I thought I might have a nervous breakdown. And every day, he'd wake me up in the morning instead of taking the girls out of the house.

Anyway, just sharing that because though it's very different, I totally identify with how you feel. I have even used the word "betrayed" before too. It's awful, and it's undermined my security. I feel like to move forward with him, I have to re-define what marriage means to me. That's huge, and feels like a loss. 

I wish I could help you more! One positive thing that has come from it is that I survived it, and I did it by myself. I try to remember that and draw strength from it. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

A lot of drama there. Some people like drama. I'm not saying YOU do. Just that SOME people do.

Just sayin'.


----------



## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Wow What A knight in shining armor you have? Sorry that was mean, but there's truth in it. 

The one person we're supposed to be to count on to 'have our back', save the day, is our SP/SO. When they miss the mark and don't meet our expectations, it is devastating. I haven't experienced anything quite as 'public' as you but the betrayal no matter how minute is HUGE!!! I'm so sorry! 

You mentioned counseling......have you discussed this particular issue with them?


----------



## Bonbons (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow I can't believe your husband would go and listen to that, then come home to you like nothing happened. You're suppose to be one. What affects one, should affect the other. I'll jump in with heavensangel with the counseling question.


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

First if all, what a lousy group of people you work(ed) with. What are they, sheep? I can't say I'm that surprised though. Volunteer organizations attract some real creeps (usually looking to embezzle money somehow) and regular people who really aren't up for any type of confrontation. So bullies can often have their way in those organizations because people would rather leave than stand up to them. 

Secondly, your husband should have made a stink when they pulled that garbage. Wasn't there some kind of charter or management committee? I can't believe he still works with them. 

As an aside, my wife volunteered in several parent run school organizations in the past and there was malfeasance in two of them. In one, people in the organization refused to believe that a local 'pillar of the community' had embezzled $30K from it over the years and didn't want to raise a stink over it. My wife was one of the few who wanted to report the thefts to the police. Thankfully they did, but it's amazing how those people didn't want to be involved with it. The other group was ruled by a bully. People just left the organization rather than deal with her. But she was misappropriating funds as well. 

I guess my point is why does someone want to rule a volunteer organization if not for some financial gain?


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

MrK said:


> A lot of drama there. Some people like drama. I'm not saying YOU do. Just that SOME people do.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Yup. 
Counseling has helped me distance myself from this ridiculous "grownup" behavior. Mostly I was in shock that people did this stuff outside of high school. 
I needed a hero to confront them with me.
I don't think H realized how lost at sea I felt. 
As for those who have mentioned the dysfunction of volunteer groups? Yeah, learned my lesson. 
But I still think that, had H stood up to them with me/for me, I would not have spent over five months feeling sick and betrayed and left all alone in a bizarre, creepy world that he casually wrote off as "not his problem." 
But maybe he just didn't want to be part of the drama.
I'm guessing that was his way of dealing with it... leaving me alone in Crazyland.
The good part is that I found some true friends in the midst of it, the ones who apologized and/or left the group. I also learned a lot about myself, and it wasn't bad. 
I am left though with less of a sense of reliance on the guy who should've had my back, and that is my concern now. I feel stronger, but more alone in my marriage. :scratchhead:


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Bonbons said:


> Wow I can't believe your husband would go and listen to that, then come home to you like nothing happened. You're suppose to be one. What affects one, should affect the other. I'll jump in with heavensangel with the counseling question.


Other than this, I didn't need counseling!:lol:
Seriously--the counseling was ONLY about this but of course a good counselor has to say, "This isn't about them, it's about you." Okay, I'm good with that. Turns out I'm an okay person and I really am stronger for this experience. (She also thought I must come from a very sheltered background. Maybe so.)

I just felt so disgusted living in a world in which other people refuse to stand up publicly to injustice--all those people apologized to me privately, but not one of them would talk to the ringleaders. I know that at least one participant/witness to the "mob meeting" remains traumatized and terrified. 

The counselor also said she thought my concerns pointed to "Reluctant Bystander" syndrome, where "good people do nothing when bad things happen." 
And one of those good people was my H. 
If we can't even stick up for those nearest to us, how can we expect strangers or mere acquaintances to come to our rescue? 
What I'm saying is, the world became an uglier place for me the day this happened, and when I sought support & solace in my marriage, it wasn't there. 
In a way, the details don't matter. so what if it's "drama"? so what if it's "just" a sleepless child? (My heart goes out to you!) What matters is that you feel someone else cares and knows how awful you feel. I couldn't even cry on my H's shoulder. He is normally such a kind person. I think he didn't want to make more waves. But I was drowning. Some things leave a scar across a marriage and this might be one.... How do we fix that? 
I will not let anyone trash my H whether he is there or not. I will look you in the eye and make you want to wash your own mouth out with lye soap. You don't diss my man.
But what about me? do I have to gird my loins myself? 
Anyway thanks to all for the sympathy, I guess I was just wondering if it's unrealistic to expect one's spouse to speak up in these situations. Maybe I'm being unfair. I just don't know. He is my hero but maybe he needs to eat his Wheaties.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

I just remembered something else the counselor said. That most people simply lack the skills to rise above the personality they have and they assume (therefore) that everyone sees the world the same way they do. She said, At least I am now learning some skills. Oh, right, I suppose I am.

So, I just realized that I need to extend that grace to my H: I think he just lacks the skills to deal with a wife going through social drama. I ended up suffering in secret, hiding it from him, for nearly half a year after it became clear he wanted no part of it. 
I guess I lack the skills to know how exactly to share my pain with him in such a way that it does not overwhelm him.
I am going to work on that. 
Thank you all so much for being my listening ear. I have spent months crying off and on. Now that I am feeling genuinely better, it felt okay to share this weird chapter in public and get feedback.
I don't know why, but talking helps, no matter how dumb i sound about my own part in this "drama," and now i have a sense of what I need to take back to my marriage.
Thank you!


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Wow, so your post brought back some bad memories for me. I didn't go through exactly the same thing as you did, but I definitely remember having that level of a painful awakening experience during my first year of marraige with H.

For us, it was money related. All during our relationship (dated for four years before marraige, including living together) H would chide me about my spending habits and my money. I always made sure my bills were paid and never had a credit card balance, but I wasn't the best at putting money into savings and had a spending habit. H made me feel like a child. And I was young and had no idea what I was doing, and he seemed so much more responsible than me and sure of his ability to manage finances. So when we got married, we combine all finances and I let him handle the money blindly. For as much as he talked the talk, I figured he had it all figured out and I was too stupid to help. Until one day I started getting late notices in the mail - bills were going unpaid. It was a shock to my system. I had never thought to keep tabs on what he was doing. I still don't really understand how it happened, but he claims he just "forgot" (how do you forget to pay three seperate bills for 3-4 months in a row, to the point that they threaten collections?) and he still to this day doesnt think it was that big of a deal. This is the guy that I essentially let bully me into thinking I was money-stupid. We took a big hit on our credit score for those unpaid bills, BTW. And since two of them were credit cards, our interest rates shot through the roof for non-payment. Maybe to the average person missing a few payments isn't such a big deal, but I have always been very straight-laced about that sort of thing and NEVER missed a payment for anything, ever, in my life prior to that.

Anyway - the point is that it really shook me to my core that he failed to protect us from money trouble. I really trusted him 100% and that was a big thing for me, having never gone that far with any other guy before to allow him total control over my money. For a long time I lost my trust in him in a lot of other areas too. I just kept thinking - if I thought he was taking care of our money, what else do I trust him with that I shouldn't? I felt unsafe and leery of everything for awhile after that. 

I eventually got over it. I realized that I was comparing my husband to an IDEAL I had in my head of who he should be - who I imagined him to be - NOT who he really was. In real life he is a human being capable of mistakes. In my head I had made him out to be infallable. The truth is, he is good about making us keep a savings account and helping me to justify purchases before I just go swipe my debit card. He's helped me learn the value of a dollar and not be such a spend-thrift. But, he's not so good at organization and tracking budgets, and when things are due. He needed my help to track calendars and dates and to get our money flowing to a point where we can plan ahead for bill payments that are coming up and manage our money flow over the whole month/year, instead of week to week. And, he was too proud to ask for my help! So he was obviously overwhelmed with the responsibility but refused to tell me or ask me to help him. But at first all I could see was - how could he do this? how could he make such a critical mistake? WHO IS THIS GUY? 

Likely, your husband is not the type to stand up in the face of opposition, especially an entire group of people who seem to be against him. He probably doesn't like to make waves. Despite that we all have the ideal that our husband should be our knight in shining armor, he might not even understand how much this affected you. He might not even know HOW to stand up to a group of people like you imagined him to do, maybe he can't even imagine what to say, or why he should have to? I know my H is almost immune to the type of drama you speak of. He truly does not think it matters what other people think about him, or what they might say about him. He might choose to miss a couple of meetings to let the drama blow over, then show up and start working just like nothing had ever happened - because that is just how he is, he would prefer to rugsweep than to confront. He is not wired to take things personally or to put that much stock in the bickerings of others. He would expect me to be the same way, and would be shocked to find out that I wasn't that way. I would have to hit my H over the head with a frying pan to make him see how hurt I was, and even then he would need to be told what I want him to do - please stand up for me, or say ____, if that's what I wanted.

My H is a very timid person in that regard, and yes, I do fight most of my own battles. (Honestly, I fight most of his battles too. Anytime there is an issue where I need to battle about it - recieving bad service, getting into a car accident, etc. I have to be the one to put the pants on and stand my ground against the enemy.) But I dont hold it against him because I know that's just who he is. There are things that will happen to me that he cannot understand. He can listen to me, he can provide sympathy (if I ask him to) but he cannot empathize. And sometimes you need empathy - and you can't find that in your H.

I struggle with that to this day, but I am slowly learning that it's OK to fight my own battles and to have certain things that I need to deal with outside of my marraige. Some things are too much for my H, and despite how much I want him to help me, I know he can't.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

nicyoupoi said:


> I'm not saying YOU do. Just that SOME people do.


OK.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

kag123 That is quite a saga and yes it touches the same nerve. 
REading someone else's version made me realize how we probably overgeneralize and make assumptions about our partners, and I see that it is kind of unfair, so that is helpful to notice.
What made my situation excruciating was its public nature. It was as if these people were testing not just me but my marriage and I felt embarrassed that my own H did not come to my defense, which further empowered the evil that was going on. Like, Hey, if even her own husband won't stick up for her, it's OPEN SEASON!! That's how I felt. 
And it's funny you mention money. We were just traveling and my H was robbed while on public transportation. Stupidly, he had put everything of value in one fat wallet. All our cash, all of his credit/debit cards, a few other things and even the house key (after telling me I didn't need to bring mine; he had his). It took about 24 hrs of holding up as the Strong Woman In A Crisis before I collapsed in a kind of cold shock. I lost my ability to speak. I just sat there frozen. I felt naked, alone, exposed, and unsafe. And we were on vacation in part to relieve me of this horrible depression I had been in because of the other thing going on! 
Social status + money = security in a lot of ways and my sense of safety has been severely dinged of late. 
Marriage is supposed to provide a sense of mutual protection and I guess it's easy to be disappointed when you realize you've married a fallible human being....


----------



## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

questar1 - I feel for you. 

To me marriage means being a team, watching each others back, being each others best cheerleader.

Even if it was aimed at and about you...why is he not angry at the hurt they caused you. I'd be breathing fire if anyone upset my man in that way.

I do hope you can find a way to make him understand what you needed from him during this time... and how short of that mark he has fallen.
Does he even realize this?


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

waiwera said:


> questar1 - I feel for you.
> 
> To me marriage means being a team, watching each others back, being each others best cheerleader.
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

"Realize." Define. 

I believe that my H has heard me out enough to know how I felt, and he still does not have the skills to deal with this degree of hurt in his wife.

I do know that my H has a limited capacity to interpret social signals and emotional signs in general. This stuff just does not compute for him no matter how articulately I try to explain or how hurt I am. He has made strange choices in other situations like the times he has put his exGFs' feelings above mine and said things like "I know you're strong and SHE would feel more hurt" or "I'm more afraid of HER anger than of yours" and "I can't stop seeing her quite yet because she was abused as a child." (????)

MC only helped in the short term... he never seemed to remember the lesson. (We just don't bring up exes any more and have "agreed to disagree" on the principle.) 

I think I have to practice not viewing his strange choices as "betrayal" and rather as his own way of maintaining peace or a lack of conflict in a difficult situation. I'm working on respecting that.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I am glad you sought counseling for the matter. I can't help but wonder what he'd have done if you decided to defend yourself instead of waiting around for him. 

"Honey, I'm filing a discrimination and slander lawsuit against the organization we founded together." I have a feeling that would've lit a fire under his butt because it would have given him something tangible and unmessy to deal with. (Emotions are intangible and quite messy.)


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I am glad you sought counseling for the matter. I can't help but wonder what he'd have done if you decided to defend yourself instead of waiting around for him.
> 
> "Honey, I'm filing a discrimination and slander lawsuit against the organization we founded together." I have a feeling that would've lit a fire under his butt because it would have given him something tangible and unmessy to deal with. (Emotions are intangible and quite messy.)


He should of had your back!


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

questar1 said:


> I think I have to practice not viewing his strange choices as "betrayal" and rather as his own way of maintaining peace or a lack of conflict in a difficult situation. I'm working on respecting that.


Life has conflict, others in our lives will make certain of that & there's no dodging it. Maintaining peace whilst offering our partner as the sacraficial lamb to avoid conflict is extremely hurtful, are you not worth his words of defence, he should have your back simple as that, not fraternizing with the enemy. His behaviour will cause you resentment, waining respect & give you a sense of lonliness creating a lack of solidarity within your marriage. 

Nothing worse than feeling your going it alone in your marriage.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Needpeace said:


> Life has conflict, others in our lives will make certain of that & there's no dodging it. Maintaining peace whilst offering our partner as the sacraficial lamb to avoid conflict is extremely hurtful, are you not worth his words of defence, he should have your back simple as that, not fraternizing with the enemy. His behaviour will cause you resentment, waining respect & give you a sense of lonliness creating a lack of solidarity within your marriage.
> 
> Nothing worse than feeling your going it alone in your marriage.


Wow. You describe this in the form of predicting the future, when in reality I already feel like this and you are SOOOO accurate, this is exactly how I already feel. Right on target. Bingo.

I'm mystified at his choice and also I ask myself, Would I have done this to him were the roles reversed. I like to think not but then again I wonder, How courageous am I to stand up to a group when I can brainwash myself into thinking "Oh, it's not my problem, it's just drama, it's not such a big deal, he will get over it, I may as well keep cooperating w/ the group." Maybe I would. maybe if I were a guy, I would think that way, and say, Oh, women just get like that, they're so sensitive, it's not really a big deal. IT WAS A VERY VERY BIG DEAL. It was devastating to me. And to others who witnessed it. There is SO much fear in the group now. 

I am very upset when people just stand by and do nothing when bad things are being done to people. .... My question is this: Does a spouse have an EXTRA obligation to come to one's defense? Or can a spouse opt out, just like anyone else? Does a spouse get to say, It's YOUR problem, not mine? Does marriage mean we share problems like this? or is that an unfair request? Is it maybe healthier for a spouse to stand back and not get involved? 

I think I know the answer because I am living in it. It really hurts. I want my spouse to strap on the armor and go after the dragon that breathed fire on me. It's nice for him to say, "Oh, you're strong, I know you can handle it" but I want my hero by my side with his sword at the ready. :2gunsfiring_v1:


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

tom67 said:


> He should of had your back!


Yeah, but "how?" In the same situation, another person might have felt empowered that their husband thinks they're strong and capable of handling the matter.

I think he possibly felt like a deer in the headlights and was afraid of the group leaders turning on him, so he might have tried to keep his standing so he could remain in a position to do something when the time was right. Would that make him a bad guy?

I think it's unfair if I complain about my husband not doing something I refused to do for myself. I'm sad that the OP had such trouble with these cruel people, but she didn't defend herself, so how is he supposed to know how important it is to her?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Professionalism and marriage can be a very difficult thing, trust me

I'll have to agree and voice what others have adviced me:
DONT work in the same place as your spouse


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Yeah, but "how?" In the same situation, another person might have felt empowered that their husband thinks they're strong and capable of handling the matter.
> 
> I think he possibly felt like a deer in the headlights and was afraid of the group leaders turning on him, so he might have tried to keep his standing so he could remain in a position to do something when the time was right. Would that make him a bad guy?
> 
> I think it's unfair if I complain about my husband not doing something I refused to do for myself. I'm sad that the OP had such trouble with these cruel people, but she didn't defend herself, so how is he supposed to know how important it is to her?


When a husband doesn't have his wife's back & she clearly needs the support & he is outwardly displaying that lack of support to the people who wronged her, they are the only empowered.

Why would a husband want to remain attached to such a group of people after the display of disrespect to his partner? He hasn't acted & the more time that passes it's unlikely he will act, therefore yes, his lack of action is definitely questionable.

OP called the offenders to discuss the issue & was met with accusations, therefore OP attempted to defend herself but was met with a pack bullying mentality, this is when the H should have stepped up to the plate.

I would say ending up in counselling, sick & depressed over the whole issue is grounds enough for a husband to realize the extent of damage being done to one’s partner.


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

questar1 said:


> Wow. You describe this in the form of predicting the future, when in reality I already feel like this and you are SOOOO accurate, this is exactly how I already feel. Right on target. Bingo.
> 
> I'm mystified at his choice and also I ask myself, Would I have done this to him were the roles reversed. I like to think not but then again I wonder, How courageous am I to stand up to a group when I can brainwash myself into thinking "Oh, it's not my problem, it's just drama, it's not such a big deal, he will get over it, I may as well keep cooperating w/ the group." Maybe I would. maybe if I were a guy, I would think that way, and say, Oh, women just get like that, they're so sensitive, it's not really a big deal. IT WAS A VERY VERY BIG DEAL. It was devastating to me. And to others who witnessed it. There is SO much fear in the group now.
> 
> ...


Many years of experience tolerating this exact issue.

It depends on the situation, some can be handled solely but there are situations arising where the defence mechanism requires teamwork.

Such as your situation, your husband should'nt have sat back watching you be bullied.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Yeah, but "how?" In the same situation, another person might have felt empowered that their husband thinks they're strong and capable of handling the matter.
> 
> I think he possibly felt like a deer in the headlights and was afraid of the group leaders turning on him, so he might have tried to keep his standing so he could remain in a position to do something when the time was right. Would that make him a bad guy?
> 
> I think it's unfair if I complain about my husband not doing something I refused to do for myself. I'm sad that the OP had such trouble with these cruel people, but she didn't defend herself, so how is he supposed to know how important it is to her?


I did defend myself.
Please don't make assumptions~


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

NO ONE SHOULD STAND BY WHILE SOMEONE ELSE IS BEING BULLIED.

My H should have known that a whole lot could go bad if this could happen to his own wife!

I have been seeing a new counselor for 3 weeks now and today she delivered her assessment. (Well, first let me say, she does not think I am the crazy one here.) She thinks that I need to stop having anything to do with the group, even my efforts to smooth things over or support it from the sides. Further, both my H and I should make a clear and obvious and absolute departure from the group; and file a legal document of severance absolving us of any future mistakes or negative consequences from the behavior of the organization. From what I have reported to her, she predicts that there may be lawsuits, etc., from internal mismanagement, esp. since this is a medical organization, and it's time to jump ship before someone gets hurt. Given the past performance of the main actors, she's convinced that these people are not only fools but dangerous. 

It has taken five months and I finally feel somewhat vindicated!

Looking back I think that if my H had really listened to what I was trying to tell him, what these people did to me, he would have said the same thing--let's get out of here. 

And then I would have had to listen to HIM and followed his lead. Instead, we were both wimps, trying to stick around and work things out while I got blackballed anyway.

Tomorrow I talk with my lawyer.


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

That is great news, and can pick up on your new found confidence in your words!

Thats one hell of a councillor you got there, I'd be sticking with her :smthumbup: she is on the ball.

:iagree: with everything she has advised, we have had to do the same in the past & it sure does the trick, I hope your husband has now seen the light.

All the best
Cheers


----------



## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Good for you!


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Needpeace said:


> That is great news, and can pick up on your new found confidence in your words!
> 
> Thats one hell of a councillor you got there, I'd be sticking with her :smthumbup: she is on the ball.
> 
> ...


I don't know if anyone is still keeping up with this but there is a Rest Of The Story.

Counselor pointed out to me that the guy who led the attack on me is a classic Borderline and his sidekick, a classic Narcissist. Right now the other people in the group are wising up & asking for me to come back and help change the leadership to something more "normal." (One of them said that unless I come back she is also quitting because she feels UNPROTECTED without me!) This is a big change and finally the H is really getting it, really seeing what was going on; the whole rest of the group just keeps saying they want this BPD guy OUT. It's like people can't apologize enough and are sick and tired of the crazy crap.

I am sorry I had to suffer so much to finally prevail but I am so relieved that there seems to be a waking-up process among everyone. Now that I know for sure that guy is the crazy one and makes others feel crazy, I don't feel crazy any more. 

The main thing remains--at least to me--that a husband or wife needs to get your back and keep the faith. My DH watched me do battle by myself and called it a personality difference. Turns out it's a personality DISORDER. Like, the dragon was real, honey. And I'm not nuts. 

You know, it's more than that. My H let me feel like I was the nut job. I don't like that. In the end I have demonstrated that I was quite sane all along but he chalked it up to my being sensitive or emotional. Objectively I had been attacked (raged at) by a BPD. Who has since done it to others. 

I just think spouses owe it to each other to believe. And care.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't trust counsellors who diagnose people they've never met.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Here is more of the Rest of the Story for what it's worth. 

It is now more than half a year later and a full year since the original events. The group itself is predictably disintegrating into mayhem. What both of my counselors predicted earlier has come to pass. Infighting, general realization of the insanity of the core of the group. Some group members have suggested that the woman who was the ringleader of the attack on me (mob bullying) should actually leave town. The jig is up. Her true self has been exposed and she is a phony and a bully. It's over. The group has at last turned against her en masse.The organization itself may disband; its fate is unclear. 

Despite my own efforts to heal myself and move on, and considering suing for slander (which some of the group members are now considering, separately from me), my emotions rode a real roller-coaster for the past year since that awful event, and I became suicidal late last year. I was diagnosed with PTSD and went into urgent counseling at the insistence of a close friend.

After successfully whittling away at my past traumas, etc., finally one single thing remained (in therapy) in explaining the lingering trauma: the simple fact that my own husband had not come to my defense. 

That is all that I am left with now.

I have just never gotten over that. 

And he still pushes me away when I try to talk about it, and tells me I'm making stuff up, that he thought I was a strong person & could handle it on my own, and so on..... My primary trail of evidence is this thread on this forum. 

I no longer think I'm crazy, or overly needy, or overly demanding. I think my husband has some issues of his own to confront. He preferred to "keep the peace" rather than defending me, AND THAT IS NOT OKAY WHEN YOU ARE MARRIED.

My current counselor--a trauma specialist--pointed out that John Gottman's recent focus in marriage is on trust and betrayal. Trust and loyalty are the essence of marriage; betrayal is the lack of loyalty. When your partner hangs you out to dry. It doesn't have to be active adultery. 

Our marriage, otherwise fairly positive, has come to a screeching halt at this point. I have spent the last year living in an absolute hell--because my intimate partner, my husband, was disloyal to me, and now I am willing to call it what it is, and I'm posting this in case someone else needs to know this and see this and realize this is the core of a marriage. The pain is similar to discovering adultery. Yes, in marriage your job is to have your partner's back. Period. Don't even debate that. If you have read my other threads here you will see that he has also subjected me to encounters with his exes, ignoring my requests not to. There is a theme here & I've had enough. I have no idea where things will go from here. My counselor loosely translated "betrayal" as: When you tell your spouse something really, really bothers you (goes against your ethics) and he or she does it anyway. 

PS Lyris, You are right about "diagnosing" people that one has never met. Who knows if those people are classic narcissists or have BPD? Let's just say they sure meet the criteria--even now, a full year after the events, it seems more obvious than ever. Bad luck to get involved with some pretty sick people, I guess, no matter what the "official" label.


----------



## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Thank you for coming in after 6 months and sharing with us your life lessons. 

For me you helped clear up what had been a murky situation that I did follow since you first wrote it and the lessons you learned will bring value to others.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Hey Questar, first of all, I LOVE your avatar picture. Just had to say that.



questar1 said:


> It is now more than half a year later and a full year since the original events. The group itself is predictably disintegrating into mayhem.


You know, the nice thing about volunteering is that you don't get paid for it. So the group disintegrates. You lose nothing. Sometimes the burning house is too far gone to be saved, and it's best just to let it burn down so you can rebuild from scratch.



> Despite my own efforts to heal myself and move on, and considering suing for slander (which some of the group members are now considering, separately from me), my emotions rode a real roller-coaster for the past year since that awful event, and I became suicidal late last year. I was diagnosed with PTSD and went into urgent counseling at the insistence of a close friend.


An awful lot of pain and drama over a volunteer job. I'm in the military and been in combat, and I don't have PTSD. Maybe you should have left a long time ago, and taken your "sane" co-workers somewhere else instead of dragging this out for so long.



> After successfully whittling away at my past traumas, etc., finally one single thing remained (in therapy) in explaining the lingering trauma: the simple fact that my own husband had not come to my defense.
> 
> That is all that I am left with now.
> 
> ...


OK, have you TOLD him the things you told others on this forum? Not just told him that you thought he should stick up for you, but told him that it's causing you to lose interest in him sexually?? That might get his serious attention.

You know, this also might be a "he said/she said" situation, and I'm guessing that if he told his side of it, it would sound a lot different. Maybe he would say the infighting at your workplace wasn't nearly as bad as you make out, or maybe he would say he felt he stuck up for you but you don't see all the ways he does it, or maybe he would say you expect him to read your mind and respond to everything the same way you would, but he can't because he's not you. I don't know. Just sayin...

As someone mentioned before, you might have an ideal husband in your mind, and get upset when your RL husband doesn't act like this ideal. But no man will ever be your ideal; for one thing, they don't have a copy of your script, and for another, they won't always agree with you. And in this age where women are (theoretically) supposed to be able to stand up on their own two feet, maybe he felt you shouldn't need him to fight your battles for you. 

That doesn't mean I am taking his "side" over yours, far from it. But I'm just pointing out that there is a lot of gray area here, and no clear way to say if he really has a problem, or what it is.

Do appreciate you returning after so much later and updating everyone though. I wish more people would do that.


----------



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Hey Questar, first of all, I LOVE your avatar picture. Just had to say that.


 



> I'm in the military and been in combat, and I don't have PTSD.


My trauma therapist told me--as one of many examples of this--that a surprisingly large # of people directly impacted by 9/11 did NOT get PTSD. The reason? They had consistent compassionate social support. Apparently a huge factor in trauma is whether you are alone or have a sense of someone "having your back." 



> OK, have you TOLD him the things you told others on this forum? Not just told him that you thought he should stick up for you, but told him that it's causing you to lose interest in him sexually?? That might get his serious attention.
> 
> You know, this also might be a "he said/she said" situation, and I'm guessing that if he told his side of it, it would sound a lot different. Maybe he would say the infighting at your workplace wasn't nearly as bad as you make out, or maybe he would say he felt he stuck up for you but you don't see all the ways he does it, or maybe he would say you expect him to read your mind and respond to everything the same way you would, but he can't because he's not you. I don't know. Just sayin...
> 
> ...


My policy w/ H is that I do not say anything about him to someone else, like this forum, unless I have already exhausted myself presenting exactly the same information & concerns to him. Rereading this thread and my other ones gives me an accurate journal of my reality with him, not some secret complaining. 

He has consistently made it seem like I am alone with my problems and feelings. There simply is no discussion. He has literally walked away from me when I have asked for help. It is really clear to me that all I needed here was supportive listening as well as a kind of loyalty. My feeling of aloneness in the situation eventually led to me feeling paralytically abandoned, made worse by the fact that he continued to be involved with my attackers. (In dealing w/ this I learned a lot about workplace bullying, which is what this was; it does often lead to trauma and suicidal feelings. I am not unusual.)

You have to maybe also realize that I only recently moved across the country to be with him. I was the new kid in town, we got involved in this group, and this happened.... I had no one else to turn to. The true blessing in the mess was that several people not only followed me out of the group, but have become my amazingly wonderful best friends. 

It was one of them who practically dragged me to the trauma specialist after realizing that I wasn't recovering normally even after distancing myself from the volunteer group. And it was the male trauma specialist who began probing H's role in my inability to recover. I was putting a lot of energy into holding him blameless. 

He (therapist) told me that if he hypothetically continued offering volunteer hours to a group that had trashed his W, he would come home to an empty house. 

Frankly I think that's probably what most sane couples would discover too! I have been permitting my H to disrespect me, if you reread my threads here (like how he puts his exes' feelings before mine). I have put up with a lot. And the feedback in this forum has pointed that out! Something has to give. I have been lying to myself about what is acceptable. 

You make some good points and I appreciate hearing a guy's POV. My next move is to have him read this entire thread. It documents what he now completely denies ("he said, she said"). He has been adding to the "crazy-making" by saying that i am exaggerating, I didn't communicate, etc., etc. And that's what I'm talking about--minimizing, denying, brushing off, walking away, making it seem like I'm the one with some imaginary problem. And THAT IS THE PROBLEM.


----------



## rogergrant (Dec 7, 2011)

It's impossible for us to know your situation, but I think we need to atleast consider the following possibilities:

1. Someone badmouthed you and made some mean accusations that ultimately really did more damage to the group than you. Perhaps its some of the real trauma I've faced in my life, but frankly, your story just doesn't seem that bad. I can assure you that many of us have had very little support in very bad times in the past. Maybe he simply didn't perceive this as being all that bad. Maybe you over-reacted a bit.

2. Perhaps he didn't fight because he didn't think he would win. It does you little good for your knight to go marching off only to get his face figuratively knocked in. In fact, it sound like he did get you an apology, so he probably felt that he did his due diligence and maybe felt more would compromise his position.

3. If he's giving all of these hours to this organization, it is obviously also very important to him. He may be passionate about his work, and you may be trying to essentially destroy something very important to him because someone said mean things about you behind your back. Sticks and stones you know.

Your feelings are real, but they really do show a bit of a lack of coping skills. What if you weren't married? The way you describe your emotions is like someone who had her hometown wiped out by a storm or her family slaughtered in battle. Some people made up stories about you. Your husband said it was petty. You're mad at him, but perhaps it really was.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

questar1, marriage is "in for a penny, in for a pound".
If you husband can't support you when you are attacked verbally, he will NEVER be the guy to protect you if you are attacked physically.
It's up to you how you wish to handle it, but if the "group" threw me under the bus, both myself and MINE wouldn't be working in that snake pit again.


----------



## Needpeace (May 24, 2012)

hookares said:


> questar1, marriage is "in for a penny, in for a pound".
> If you husband can't support you when you are attacked verbally, he will NEVER be the guy to protect you if you are attacked physically.
> It's up to you how you wish to handle it, but if the "group" threw me under the bus, both myself and MINE wouldn't be working in that snake pit again.


 :iagree: This is the long & short of it

I also agree with your therapists evaluations, don't allow negative comments here undo his *professional* findings & sound advice. If your H were to attend sole therapy without your presence he would be capable of fooling the therapist, therefore you have taken the correct steps to get your feelings across without his chaotic warped way of thinking complicating the situation further. Now that your therapist has clear & precise understanding of the facts this would be the time to drag him along so the therapist can evaluate his responses to this situation, and I assure you his actions won't add to the therapist but only prove his thinking towards your union is distorted.
I have lived this type of union for 28 years & continue to live it, your H displays PA tendancies, not communicating, cowardess, walking away leaving you standing there talking to yourself, denial of actions or lack of etc..... be prepared to fly solo in your marriage, he will *never* have your back & he will *never* change.
Everything you have said in regards to PTSD is spot on, your therapist is spot on, keep talking to your therapist, you may chose to stay in your marriage & your H's continued bad behaviour will be a constant hurt bringing you back down to that terribly horrible place you have worked so hard to dig yourself out of...
When you feel strong enough & feel ready, you may act to escape him or you may develope a lifestyle & interests designed especially for you where he is not invited, I call it self preservation, one thing is for sure your H is toxic to you & he will *not* change.
Nice to hear from you, but sad for the grief you have endured, I truely do understand & clearly some here lack that understanding, keep your head proud & walk tall.


----------



## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

MrK said:


> A lot of drama there. Some people like drama. I'm not saying YOU do. Just that SOME people do.
> 
> Just sayin'.


El o el.


----------



## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

questar1 said:


> Trust and loyalty are the essence of marriage; betrayal is the lack of loyalty. When your partner hangs you out to dry.
> 
> The pain is similar to discovering adultery. Yes, in marriage your job is to have your partner's back. Period. Don't even debate that. If you have read my other threads here you will see that he has also subjected me to encounters with his exes, ignoring my requests not to. There is a theme here & I've had enough. I have no idea where things will go from here. My counselor loosely translated "betrayal" as: When you tell your spouse something really, really bothers you (goes against your ethics) and he or she does it anyway.


I agree _completely_.

My H did his best to ignore and humiliate me whenever his 'friends' were around. When confronted, he gaslighted and told me I was paranoid and that he couldn't help my incorrect 'perceptions' of what was going on. 

Someone posted that in a marriage, doing this to your spouse is treason, and that's exactly how it felt.

(The above was just one manifestation of his complete disregard for me as a human, but it's the example that is most like what you dealt with.)

I left, and now see him for what he really is- a man with NPD (not diagnosed by a psychologist but every move he made was right out of the playbook so I feel quite comfortable hanging that label on him) who was acting passive aggressively with one goal: to make me feel like I was nothing. It was deliberate, and it was not my imagination.

I'm sorry you are going through this, and that your H was not there for you when you needed him. I know how painful it is.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

rogergrant said:


> It's impossible for us to know your situation, but I think we need to atleast consider the following possibilities:
> 
> 1. Someone badmouthed you and made some mean accusations that ultimately really did more damage to the group than you. Perhaps its some of the real trauma I've faced in my life, but frankly, your story just doesn't seem that bad. I can assure you that many of us have had very little support in very bad times in the past. Maybe he simply didn't perceive this as being all that bad. Maybe you over-reacted a bit.
> 
> ...


Insensitive and flat out wrong.


----------

