# Is getting to ILYBINILWY a conscious decision?



## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Just wanted to get some opinions. I feel it is. I feel at some point a spouse focuses on negative to much. They maybe see the spouse as hindering them from some fantasy life. They focus on the bad and stop trying to see the good. Eventually, with all the negativity, the "in love" feeling goes away.

Now I'm sure there are relationships where one spouse is just a complete ass and its deserved. I'm talking about those that just became complacent.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree it can be a conscious decision. You absolutely know when you're starting to drift into the red zone with fantasizing and only focusing on the negative. I start shutting down and losing that "in love" feeling when I focus solely on negative things and get lost in my little fantasy world where things are perfect.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I think spouses have disappointments in life and need to put a face on all of the stresses in life and sometimes put their spouses face on all of their problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

They don't realize they are falling out of love. It's one Love Buster at a time that gets someone to stop seeing their partner as the one they want to be with. 

Of course that doesn't count what they themselves are doing, if anything, to doom the relationship.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

i love you but im not in love with you


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> hawx20 please help me...what does ILYBINILWY stand for...uggg I can't figure these letters out!


I love you but I am not in love with you.

I don't think it is always a conscious choice. Some folks drift into it for different reasons. Sometimes because of their own issues, sometimes because of what their partner has done, sometimes a combination, sometimes due to cheating, or poor boundaries or whatever. In cheating, I suspect it is a defense mechanism to justify the terrible behavior. 

I think a lot of stuff people do is instinctual and then justified after the fact.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's the ONE statement that nearly every single cheater gives his/her spouse once they start cheating. It's how they justify cheating. Well, I don't love you, so I had no choice, right?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I personally don't believe in ILYBINILWY. ILYBINILWY is a feeling.
feelings come and go. Marriage is a life commitment. I know usually the persons come to this conclusion after a long time. Probably lots of times after meeting someone and becoming infatuated with their non-spouse. 

I hate to say this, but I think ILYBINILWY is borne of selfishness and immaturity. I know one cannot deny their feelings, but feelings is not marriage, only one component. I never changed by commitment in any of my serious relationships. Once I told them 'I love you', I meant it for life. I never left them. They left me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrs. Adams, what it really means is that you have love for the person, but you want more. You want passion ('in love with you') and that's why the other person entered the picture.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I love you but I am not in love with you.
> 
> *In cheating, I suspect it is a defense mechanism to justify the terrible behavior.
> 
> I think a lot of stuff people do is instinctual and then justified after the fact.*


*And to aptly prove this point, let me call my skanky XW to the stand as my first witness!*


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

A conscious justification, a way of solving the "can you love more than one person at the same time" dilemma. You can, but you can only have one "main passion" at a time. This is almost by definition the AP. For ONS or other one-off encounters this will not apply.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I agree with you hawx20, but I think it comes about slowly because most young people don't know how to communicate with the opposite sex, they don't know each others love language, perhaps one or both of them don't understand the power of apologies, they get into the LD vrs HD sex circle, etc.

And, I am not sure I agree with the ILYBINILWY term. I think people use this to soften the blow because what they really mean is I am not in love with you anymore.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> No excuses, no reasons...selfish...sinfully selfish.


All humans are selfish. Even Mother Teresa and Gandhi.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I see...thank you for explaining that....
> 
> *I remember saying I love you.*..I don't know why I did this...
> 
> thirty years later...I still do not have an answer other than I was selfish....period. No excuses, no reasons...selfish...sinfully selfish.


Saying this to OM?


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I have been thinking about this one...and for the life of me...I do not remember ever saying this to my husband. He may correct me later and if he does I will correct my post...


No Mrs. Adams you never said this to me You did say you loved me but did not like me.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. Adams Philat is asking if you said I love you to the OM.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

johnAdams said:


> You did say you loved me but did not like me.


Hell, we can ALL say that about our spouse from time to time, lol.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> OH GOD!!!!!NOOOOOOOOOO! I am sorry...I misread that...so embarrassed!
> 
> Philat no I never said I love you to the POS...I said to him if you are not careful you will fall in love me with me. He said...I don't have time for that sh*t.
> 
> and there you go...another trigger for today.:banghead:


*I, for one, am so very sorry for all that you endured in your situation! Try to lose those triggers, Sweetheart! You have asked for and have been summarily granted forgiveness!

And please don't let anybody ever try to tell you anything different!*


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Philat no I never said I love you to the POS...I said to him if you are not careful you will fall in love me with me. He said...I don't have time for that sh*t.
> 
> and there you go...another trigger for today.:banghead:


Whew.


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

JustHer said:


> And, I am not sure I agree with the ILYBINILWY term. I think people use this to soften the blow because what they really mean is I am not in love with you anymore.


I agree. And the reason they want to soften the blow is . . . they still love you, despite not being in love with you. The Greeks had different words to cover these situations --

pragma (or something like that) would refer to a deep understanding that comes from being together for a long time, or at least a lot of time

philia was friendship-type love, certainly it covers bro-mances.

Eros was the passionate side of things. 

"I'm fond of you, I have no desire to see you in pain, but I no longer passionately desire to spend my time with you and you alone."

If my wife finally gets around to either saying ILYBINILWY, I'll know that's what she means.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Simply put, ILYBINILWY is nothing more than self-serving "Cheaterspeak" for formal notification from the WS (wayward spouse) to the BS(betrayed spouse), that they are getting their ashes summarily hauled over in some other bedroom somewhere! And no longer have any kind of an emotional or a sexual need for them! Other than being their Plan B meal-ticket, perhaps!

Plain and simple!*


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Note to all who get this speech: Do not beg or guilt the other party to stay. Let them know you will be ok either way. Work on improving yourself. Detach emotionally. No talking about the relationship, no being needy, dont be clingy.

I wished I knew this 12 years ago. We are still together, but its not the same. If I had employed this strategy at the beggining I would have been in a better place one way or another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I am very interested why you think this...can you explain?


Which part in particular?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

I Liked Your Big Income, Nevertheless I'm Leaving While Young. (and taking it with me.)


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> All of it...if it is not an imposition. I just found it interesting and am trying to understand why you feel that way. I don't mean to pry.


Well here you go. 12 years ago my wife told me she didn't know if she had the right kind of love for me. Just a different way of saying ILYBNILWY.

We talked about separating and I cried like a little b!tch Begging her to stay. I even threatened to harm myself. She stayed, but she was cold and detached. She had built an ice castle around herself.

A year or so ago I read MMSLP and NMMG and started applying most of the principles discussed in the books. I started working out, I detached emotionally, I started taking care of the things that needed to be done without expecting anything in return.

It wasn't until I started changing myself that she started moving towards me. She now will initiate sex. Still pretty much duty sex, but hey I will take it

If I had applied this at the beginning things may have turned around quicker or maybe we would have divorced, but I wouldn't have wasted 12 years Persuing a memory.

I hope this is what you were looking for.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Thank you


Thoughts?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Did I mess up this thread? Lots of posts missing. If I messed up my apologies.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

:iagree:


Thound said:


> Note to all who get this speech: Do not beg or guilt the other party to stay. Let them know you will be ok either way. Work on improving yourself. Detach emotionally. No talking about the relationship, no being needy, dont be clingy.
> 
> I wished I knew this 12 years ago. We are still together, but its not the same. If I had employed this strategy at the beggining I would have been in a better place one way or another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
I have read many of the stories on here where this term has come up, that or the "I'm just not attracted to you anymore." I think the proper response to either speech should be a simple "well, F you then, I'll find someone who is."


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> 
> :iagree:
> I have read many of the stories on here where this term has come up, that or the "I'm just not attracted to you anymore." I think the proper response to either speech should be a simple "well, F you then, I'll find someone who is."


It would Cut to the chase that's for sure.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I don't think you messed up this thread....so stop! lol
> 
> My thoughts are...I go back to my own story....and I hear my husband 's voice...he thinks he begged me to stay...but my reaction was not like your wifes. So I am trying to relate. I don't understand her reaction of coldness.
> 
> ...


I think she wanted a man and not another child.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Mrs. A 
I like the way you think.
If any one around here can think differently its me.....hell I think so far out side the box it's almost oblong! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> It would sure be easier if marriage came with a how to book wouldn't it.


It does. People just ignore it


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

johnAdams said:


> It does. People just ignore it


Ain't that the truth!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> No Mrs. Adams you never said this to me You did say you loved me but did not like me.


Oh my god you two are exact duplicates of me and my wife. Its uncanny how similar our stories are. This is exactly what my wife told me.

At some point, she made a decision to de-prioritize me. She did it to the kids to a certain extent also. I couldnt compete with the excitement of her new social life and younger friends. I was the burden that kept her from being young again. Reality sucks, what can I say?

Anyways, by the time dday arrived, I dont think I was in love with her anymore. I still loved her, but it was covered in anger and resentment. I know I made a conscious decision to withdraw from her at some point. She had shut me out of her heart which eventually led me to do the same. 

We have opened our hearts to each other and I feel like I am in love with my wife again. Her actions suggest the same. Obviously I am still hurt and extremely angry with her due to her infidelity, but I can honestly say if she continues on with life being the woman she is now, we will have a successful R.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Thound said:


> Note to all who get this speech: Do not beg or guilt the other party to stay. Let them know you will be ok either way. Work on improving yourself. Detach emotionally. No talking about the relationship, no being needy, dont be clingy.
> 
> I wished I knew this 12 years ago. We are still together, but its not the same. If I had employed this strategy at the beggining I would have been in a better place one way or another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I never begged her to stay and even though dday was in November, I dont police her actions. I told her from day one of R that she was free to do whatever she wanted. I wasnt going to watch her like a hawk. She knows the kind of man she has and she knows she will never find someone like me. 

I see no point in watching her like shes in prison. If shes going to cheat again, I say go for it. She knows she will not get a third chance. She knows I will be the one who comes out for the better if we divorce. I try not to detach emotionally to much because our R is going very well. However, whenever she displays unjustified attitude, I detach immediately. I quite simply do not put up with the slightest hint of her old ways. She realizes real quick that things arent the same and ends up apologizing the whole night.

I made it perfectly clear to her that her old husband is gone. The old husband had become very beta because I thought thats what made a good husband. Apparently it doesnt.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I never begged her to stay and even though dday was in November, I dont police her actions. I told her from day one of R that she was free to do whatever she wanted. I wasnt going to watch her like a hawk. She knows the kind of man she has and she knows she will never find someone like me.
> 
> ...


You have to do what works for you. Glad to hear R is going well. I hope everything works out for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Where the hell did this idea come from that you're supposed to be "in love" with your spouse all the time? Hopefully you are in love with them at some point, and then throughout your relationship your feelings wax and wane. I think of marriage partly as an agreement to keep striving to make it work at those times when you DON'T feel "in love."


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I see no point in watching her like shes in prison. If shes going to cheat again, I say go for it.


Not in prison, but on parole, maybe? You are assuming, I gather, that if she does cheat again it will be revealed even if you are not watching out for it.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

All the context here is cheating. Are we to think ILYBINILWY isn't also said when there has been no cheating?

I'd think this would be a common prelude to counseling or a divorce even when cheating is not involved.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

John Lee said:


> I think of marriage partly as an agreement to keep striving to make it work at those times when you DON'T feel "in love."


At what point do you think people should call it quits if that feeling never returns? Should people go years and decades without feeling "in love"?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

John Lee said:


> Where the hell did this idea come from that you're supposed to be "in love" with your spouse all the time? Hopefully you are in love with them at some point, and then throughout your relationship your feelings wax and wane. I think of marriage partly as an agreement to keep striving to make it work at those times when you DON'T feel "in love."


This was the point i was trying to make. John Lee says it better.
Passion and deep feelings for each other are wonderful and bring the two people together (or should) in the first place. But they are not the end all. I believe there are legitimate reasons to divorce (infidelity, extreme abuse), but ILYBINILWY is not one of them in my opinion. You commit to the person even when the feelings are gone. everyone has things to love about them. you have to seek them out in your partner.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> All the context here is cheating. Are we to think ILYBINILWY isn't also said when there has been no cheating?
> 
> I'd think this would be a common prelude to counseling or a divorce even when cheating is not involved.


Good point here. What's the difference between being "in love" and simply "loving" when there's no third party involved? And does not being "in love" mean you are not fulfilled by "loving"? Rhetorical questions--every couple probably has their own take.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> I believe there are legitimate reasons to divorce (infidelity, extreme abuse), but ILYBINILWY is not one of them in my opinion. You commit to the person even when the feelings are gone. everyone has things to love about them. you have to seek them out in your partner.


So someone who stays because of their commitment, and does not feel "in love" in spite of "trying" - and this lack of ever feeling "in love" makes them unhappy, should just stay unhappy?

To my thinking, highs and lows are good - and your commitment will get you through the lows for the highs. Forever mediocre is essentially a flatline though - a dead marriage - even if its not completely dysfunctional. ILYBINILWY seems legitimate there.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> At what point do you think people should call it quits if that feeling never returns? Should people go years and decades without feeling "in love"?


I'd like to have hope in people and believe they know in their gut when it's time to move on from someone. I think if you've tried every thing within your means to bring back the in love feelings yet they still don't come back...you have to make your choice after that.

We have 'not in love' moments once in a while. We've been on a not in love kick for about a month now. It's slowing returning now that we've recognized it and discussed the problems causing it to happen.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

It seems like the kind of thing people say when they miss that "butterflies" feeling. I guess I'm perfectly happy to not have that feeling most of the time. I like the calmer, mellower kind of love that develops over time.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

I was always good with the ups and downs. In fact, they reminded me that the passion was still there. I think my marriage effectively ended in my mind when I realized that there were no ups and downs. No fights. No make up sex. No passion whatsoever. Just dead. Roomates. Coworkers. You still want them to do well, but you don't want them. ILYBINILWY right?

Regardless of whether cheating is involved, the underlying feeling is likely the same. "I love you like family, but we're not lovers anymore." Something like that. I always thought that dead feeling was worse than fighting. The lack of fighting only shows that nobody cared enough to fight.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

It's the Disney effect. Every relationship needs to have this constant "spark" or it isn't meant to be.

BS.

It's an immature view of relationships that contributes to that tired old refrain.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I was always good with the ups and downs. In fact, they reminded me that the passion was still there. I think my marriage effectively ended in my mind when I realized that there were no ups and downs. No fights. No make up sex. No passion whatsoever. Just dead. Roomates. Coworkers. You still want them to do well, but you don't want them. ILYBINILWY right?
> 
> Regardless of whether cheating is involved, the underlying feeling is likely the same. "I love you like family, but we're not lovers anymore." Something like that. I always thought that dead feeling was worse than fighting. The lack of fighting only shows that nobody cared enough to fight.


To me what you've described is not ILYBNILWY.

It's I don't love you anymore.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

sinnister said:


> To me what you've described is not ILYBNILWY.
> 
> It's I don't love you anymore.


Hmm... so you don't see that a relationship could devolve into loving like siblings as opposed to lovers?

What differentiates the two emotions?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hawx20 said:


> Just wanted to get some opinions. I feel it is. I feel at some point a spouse focuses on negative to much. They maybe see the spouse as hindering them from some fantasy life. They focus on the bad and stop trying to see the good. Eventually, with all the negativity, the "in love" feeling goes away.
> 
> Now I'm sure there are relationships where one spouse is just a complete ass and its deserved. I'm talking about those that just became complacent.


I think that this assumes that a person's arriving at the point that they are no longer "in love" with their spouse is their own fault and that their spouse had nothing to do with it.

There are many reasons that cause people to arrive at this point.

Sometimes it's the person who is no longer in love who neglected the marriage or who only looks at things through their selfish lens.

But very often it's both parties or the other party who is neglecting the marriage.

Have been through this.... and no I have never cheated. Not all people who fall out of love with their spouse cheat. Not by a long shot.

In my first marriage it was his emotional/physical abuse and refusal to spend and quality time with me after about the 5th year of marriage.

In my more resent marriage (divorced in 3/2012) it was because he became more interested in computer games and surfing the net. He would not work. Would not spend any time together. 

I'm not perfect. But a person cannot work on a marital relationship if the other part is absent emotionally and/or abusive.

To assume that everyone who falls out of love with their spouse has made a conscious choice to do so out of selfish reasons is not reality.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I was always good with the ups and downs. In fact, they reminded me that the passion was still there. I think my marriage effectively ended in my mind when I realized that there were no ups and downs. No fights. No make up sex. No passion whatsoever. Just dead. Roomates. Coworkers. You still want them to do well, but you don't want them. ILYBINILWY right?
> 
> Regardless of whether cheating is involved, the underlying feeling is likely the same. "I love you like family, but we're not lovers anymore." Something like that. I always thought that dead feeling was worse than fighting. The lack of fighting only shows that nobody cared enough to fight.





sinnister said:


> To me what you've described is not ILYBNILWY.
> 
> It's I don't love you anymore.


What DvlsAdvc8 describes sounds like ILYBNILWY to me. The persons ends up feeling love for their spouse of the same type they would feel for a sibling. They care/love the person. But the passion and ‘IN LOVE” feelings are gone.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

ILYBINLWY can mean a number of different things:

In general I guess women say it more than men because men a less concerned with sexual exclusivity.

If a man says it to his wife, that mean he is bored in their relationship. If man doesn't even want to have sex with his SO anymore, then he does not love her period. He wants out. But if she is a good person and he does not want to hurt, he says that he still loves her. Cowardice really. For if a man dares to say I don't love youn and you're just not attractive as a woman, look out. Even a man of low social IQ instinctively knows this may unleash a fury.

Women who are in an EA and say this are actually challenging themselves morally to not take it physical without telling their SO. That is much better than the woman cheats to find out how the lover feels in bed.

ILYBINLWY may mean I want to hump someone else over and over, but I am grown up to know that this is going to be complicated because we have kids together and own a whole bunch of shxt that is really owned by the bank. Gee, I hope you are going to help clean up the mess of divorce. If you hate me, it will not be smooth so lets stay in love awhile longer. Hope you find someone else who wants to fvck you madly but to be honest I just don't see anyone wanting you at all. I've had you and I am all done.

ILYBINLWY can also mean I am telling you this now so that you can metaphorically female canine slap me and bring this nonsense of a love affair to an authoritative end. Please turn back into the man or woman you used to be or could have been.

ILYBINLWY can also mean I cannot stand the way you chew your food, snore, fart or laugh inappropriately. I am done with *fremdschämen* on your behalf (being embarrassed when say dumb shxt and don't even know people are laughing at you.

ILYBINLWY can also mean our children are beautiful and I love you for giving them to me and I am moved by all the beta moments you've given our relationship, but OM's cum is leaking into my panties and I don't want you to touch me, anywhere, but especially there.

ILYBINLWY could mean I have already read about divorce on the Internet for a month and half. I spoke with a lawyer last week.

ILYBINLWY could mean you don't have to do the dishes tonight. Go ahead and play that computer game you're addicted to.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Life for months prior to dday - No passion, no time for us, duty sex, frustration, kisses are nothing but pecks.....

First 5 years of marriage and now - Passion, we make time for each other, passionate sex, passionate kisses throughout the day, cant wait to go out together, not easily frustrated by each other....

Thats the difference between being in love and not, to me.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> ILYBINLWY can mean a number of different things:
> 
> In general I guess women say it more than men because men a less concerned with sexual exclusivity.
> 
> If a man says it to his wife, that mean he is bored in their relationship. If man doesn't even want to have sex with his SO anymore, then he does not love her period. He wants out. But if she is a good person and he does not want to hurt, he says that he still loves her. Cowardice really. For if a man dares to say I don't love youn and you're just not attractive as a woman, look out. Even a man of low social IQ instinctively knows this may unleash a fury.


I can't agree with this at all. If he doesn't have the passion to have sex with his SO anymore, he's likely not "IN LOVE" with her. He may still love her as much as ever as family. A close personal connection that no longer has passion.



LongWalk said:


> Women who are in an EA and say this are actually challenging themselves morally to not take it physical without telling their SO. That is much better than the woman cheats to find out how the lover feels in bed.


I think this one is even more off base. The notion that a woman cheats to find out how the lover feels in bed?? That doesn't sound like many women I know.

The expression from both parties is quite clear: I no longer feel the desire for intimacy with you. Not sex, cheating or no cheating... it is the desire for intimacy. There is no passion and the relationship has become the equivalent of brother and sister living together.

Is the only view of it you can accept a bitter one?


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