# Joint Account not working for us



## Fishman (Jan 12, 2012)

I have married for abut 4 years and we have differences when it comes to our finances. She is a spender and I'm the saver. When I first met her she had about $30k in debt and over the 4 years we paid it off. We have our own accounts and we have a joint account. We each have the same amount of mad money and she makes about 55% of our income and I make 45%. We share the bills so that all the money except for our mad money goes towards bills, savings, etc. I pay certain bills and she does the same. However, there are certain purchases that we both make on our own credit cards each month (ie. groceries) and then we pay off our credit card using the funds that we both pay into the joint account. She deposits more money in the joint account as most of my money goes towards the mortgage and she does make more. The issue is that I believe she is paying some of her own expenses (expenses that she should pay with her mad money) with the funds in the joint account. I buy most of the groceries but whenever she pays her credit card each month the amount she charges the joint account for groceries seems unrealisticlly high. Also, this past month when she paid off the family/friends christmas gifts that were on her credit card with the joint account the amount was a lot higher than what I expected. I asked her for a breakdown of these expenses but would not. She just gets her back up and accuses me of not respecting her, not trusting her and implying that she is irresponsible with money. If I push it anymore it will lead to a major argument. My visa is always left on the countertop each month for her to view if she wants to whereas her visa is kept at work. 

I would like to close the joint account as it is not working for me but not sure how to go about paying the bills without a lot of extra work. I thought about keeping the joint account and having to place all receipts for the joint account in one location. This will work but if I mention this idea to her she will say that I am doing it because I don't trust her. 

Any suggestions or comments?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I've not been in this situation, so I'm not sure how helpful I will be. My H and I have everything combined as we met young and built together. We each have a credit card but it's the same account.

What am I wondering is, could you not have a combined credit card account that can be used by both of you for groceries and joint expenses? :scratchhead: That way it's very clear, open and manageable? Or am I missing something here?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tell you that in marriage the idea is trust, but verify. 

If she were not over spending, she would most likely show you her credit card bills. She could show you quickly that you were wrong if indeed you were wrong. She's over spending and does not want to to have the data to verify it.

One way to do it is to put all of the money needed to pay bills (Utilities) , debt (mortgage, car loans) , etc in the joint account. Pay those bills from the joint account. (Why are you paying the mortgage from your own account and not the joint account?)

For groceries and other monthly expenses that are spent at stores that each of you want reimbursed from the joint account… have a box/jar/whatever into which each of you put the receipts. Then you are each reimbursed from the joint account based on those receipts. Then it’s not based on the credit card bills. You have the right to know where your money is going. And if she wants reimbursement she has to show you what it’s for, just as she has to be able to see your receipts as well.

People can be very weird with money. Some are honest and thrifty and save. Some over spend. Some skim it.

I recently did some forensic accounting from 2006 to 2010 for a man going through a divorce. He, like you, would not push his wife to get full financial openness from her. He worked to support the family. She was a SAHM and managed the family finances. If he asked for any insight into the finances she’d act like your wife or worse. He did not want to cause trouble and trusted her. 

She just complained constantly about the cost of everything. Groceries were too high, etc etc. And he was busy supporting the family and trusted her. Stupidly trusted her.

Fortunately, his wife keeps receipts for years and he found he receipt stash. What I turned up is that she has been moving money out of their joint account… a reverse laundering of money for years. She spent an inordinate amount on groceries, at Target, gas station convenience stores. You know the kind of places where a person can buy a $2 item and get $40 in cash out.

I found over $72,000 that she took out this way in a 5 year period from grocery stores alone. From other paperwork he was able to come up with, it looks like she has done this for the entire 23 years of their marriage.

This money skimming thing of hers was only one of the tricks she was using to move money around and eventually into her own secret account. But it was pretty ingenious. It took a lot of effort.. all those trips to the store.

Another thing I found, on just one paper among receipts is a bank account that he never knew about. Now in the divorce proceedings she is refusing to give full disclosure on her finances. She does not know that he knows of her ‘secret’ account… the one with a couple of hundred thousand. So he’s not letting it go. If he has to he will get a court order to get the records from this account. The amount it is it pretty sizable from her years of skimming money out of their joint account.

I doubt that your wife is doing this. My point of telling this is that both spouses absolutely need to know what the other is doing with their finances. Over spending is a very common thing and can put you in horrible debt.


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

She may be resentful that she is contributing more than you yet still have same mad money and be 'making up the difference'. Why not both contribute to bills and keep mad money proportionate to your incomes? She pays more but gets to keep more 'mad money'? It's not a matter or much in the grand scheme of things but some people are funny that way. That would be a way of broaching a change in the system that would make her listen and be receptive to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Okay I have to ask, what is 'mad' money?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> Okay I have to ask, what is 'mad' money?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's money to spend however you wish with no accountability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fishman (Jan 12, 2012)

I am acceptable to her having more mad money based on earnings. If so I will want to see receipts or her visa for charges going through joint account. 

Should I have a general idea how much she has or doesn't have in her own account. I am afraid that she could be incurring debt and I don't know about it. Like I said in my first posting, she had $30k in debt when I meet her and she carried balances on her visas.


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Fishman said:


> I am acceptable to her having more mad money based on earnings. If so I will want to see receipts or her visa for charges going through joint account.
> 
> Should I have a general idea how much she has or doesn't have in her own account. I am afraid that she could be incurring debt and I don't know about it. Like I said in my first posting, she had $30k in debt when I meet her and she carried balances on her visas.


I'm just saying it's a start to opening the conversation which wouldn't put her on the defensive.

'hey honey, I was thinking, let's redo the budget. It's not really fair, you contribute more than I do yet we have same amount of discretionary funds.'

Sounds like a better opening than, 'you're taking more than your fair share! Spill it!'

I too would be annoyed with the lack of transparency on her end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fishman (Jan 12, 2012)

I like your approach and I will try it but I am almost certain that she will accuse me of not trusting her. However I need to get this resolved as it is hurting our marriage. I revised our budget based on your suggestion and she will get an extra $80 and I will get $80 less. I can live with this if we can agree to more transparency. 

Let me ask you this. I recently took a trip with some friends and managed to pay for it with savings from my mad money (approx $2,000). My wife is taking a trip this summer with her friends but wants to use money that we will receive from our taxes. She spends all her mad money and probably more. Is this fair?


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Fishman said:


> I like your approach and I will try it but I am almost certain that she will accuse me of not trusting her. However I need to get this resolved as it is hurting our marriage. I revised our budget based on your suggestion and she will get an extra $80 and I will get $80 less. I can live with this if we can agree to more transparency.
> 
> Let me ask you this. I recently took a trip with some friends and managed to pay for it with savings from my mad money (approx $2,000). My wife is taking a trip this summer with her friends but wants to use money that we will receive from our taxes. She spends all her mad money and probably more. Is this fair?


If you get same fun money from taxes too. If that is earmarked for joint savings she needs to find new way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fishman (Jan 12, 2012)

When revising the budget I split all the expenditures based on a percentage of what we take home, approx. 45% to 55%. We both contribute a little to our own saving account that we used to buy gifts for each other or buy clothes when we go on a trip. Also, we contribute a little to our own retirement fund. Should these amounts be split based on the percentages or not?


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

The difference in percentage is small..... so I'd do everything 50/50. BUT, since she is weird about it, I'd offer her the 55% which is more than fair. As far as the income tax return, I'd take off the top any monies for the house, or specific joint items (like paying off a recent joint purchase).... and give her 55% of the leftover, and you take 45%. It just depends on whether you two have agreed that the tax return money will be divided as mad money.


----------



## Fishman (Jan 12, 2012)

Even though we have separate bank accounts should I have some idea how much she does or does not have? How do I know if she is carrying debt. I am certain that each month she has to go into her overdraft on her account and this is an extra cost to her. She doesn't understand that she would have more discretionary income if she stopped incurring overdraft charges. Also, she refuses to bring home her credit card statement, leaves it at work, so I can't see it. She tells me that she pays it off each month but I am not convinced. Last several months her due date on the statement changed each month and not by a day or 2. It went from the 6th, 12, 7, 13 and 5th. Is this normal? My due date is the same each month. 

This lack of transparency is driving me crazy. I am second guessing almost everything she does or buy and it isn't good for our marriage. 

She is a well educated person and thinks she is responsible with her money so this causes a conflict between us.


----------

