# Too soon to propose?



## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

I’m 48 and my late wife and I met when we were 22 and go married when we were 27. We had an ok marriage and she was a good wife and mother but there wasn’t much love between us. Intimacy died pretty quickly as did affection. I loved her as a person but wasn’t in love with her for a long time. We had kids and she was the best mother to them. Honestly, if I could have picked my mom, I would have picked someone like her. She was a nice person, a good wife, but there were never an sparks or chemistry between us. She was a great friend. I stuck by her and never ever let her know how I felt about our marriage or that I wasn’t in love with her. I stood by her side three years ago when she got sick and died two years ago. Took months off work to help take care of her. She eventually l passed away and mourned the loss of a friend but especially the mother of my children. Even though I hadn’t been in love with her I never stopped doing things to make her feel like I was. I think she died thinking I was still in love with her - and that’s ok. She never knew I wasn’t and I don’t feel bad because she never knew any different. 

About ten years ago I got a job in a new ER (I’m a nurse). One of my coworkers and I became very close friends (this isn’t a story of adultery, calm down). She had a boyfriend and we talked about our relationships, problems, and how to fix them. Shes a great girl - beautiful, kind, funny, smart, and very sweet. We considered each other close friends, but she always send signals she was interested in me - spending down time with me, asking me to come chat with her whenever I’d walk by, finding little excuses to touch me, give me deep looks, her eyes would light up when I’d walk into work, etc... I ignored them but slowly began to fall for her - this was long after my romantic feelings for my wife had faded.

I kept these feelings bottled up, never told anyone. Never changed how I treated or took care of my wife. Took care of my family. My friend married her boyfriend, but we still remained close. We never did anything romantic, just talked, the four of us hung out as a couple once in a while. Her and I never hung out alone outside of work. Sometimes we’d have our lunch breaks together but they were spent in the break room. Even when she was married she never changed how she interacted with me. I was sad for myself but very happy for her. She’s Indian and married her boyfriend because she has been with him for a few years and “had to.” She always complained about him - stupid little things that I didn’t feel were worth complaining about and I’d call her out on it and try to help her. When my wife died, she comforted me more than anyone else other than my kids did. Like I said, she was always a very good friend.

About a year and a half ago she called me upset because she had caught her husband with someone else. Apparently he had only married her because he was expected to - like I said they’re both Indian and didn’t want to disappoint their respective families. She filed for divorce and I was there for her like she had been for me.

My kids are older (teenagers) so childcare was different than when they were younger. I have some time to be able to reconnect with friends, etc... About a year ago, my coworker and I began to hang out more often. We’d go hiking, to movies, to the beach, etc... More often than not, we’d just hang out at my house talking or watching a movie -  nothing ever happened. A few months ago we were talking and I got incredibly quiet and sad. She asked me what was wrong. I showed her a poem by Rumi (I Choose to Love You In Silence). She looked confused and asked if that was how I felt about her. I couldn’t speak and just nodded my head “yes.”

She sat silently for a few minutes then began to cry. She started telling me she’d been in love with me for years, since a few months after we met but that she had kept it in because I was married and she had a boyfriend. She had no idea I’d felt the same way - I told her even if she had nothing would have happened and likely our friendship would have ended because I didn’t want an affair. We ended up talking for a few hours that night and eventually just decided that it had been too long and too painful and we should just give a relationship a shot.

We’ve been together a few months now. My kids and her get along quite well. They’ve asked me if we’re going to get married and I told them we had talked about it and that in all likelihood we would be. They were happy about that. In April her and I are going away for a few nights to Hawaii. It’s our first trip together. She’s never been and I’ve been there a few times. I’ve booked us a private catamaran dinner cruise and plan to propose to her on the cruise. She knows I plan on proposing but doesn’t know when and thinks it’s still a year away. 

In terms of my kids, they both know about my plan to propose. They are both supportive and like her very much. 
The kids are 16 and 17. The days of my actively raising them are coming to an end. They've been raised to be independent and take care of themselves. They work, get good grades and will be going away to college - one plans on following in my footsteps to become a nurse, the other is joining the Navy to become a medic with the eventual goal of becoming a doctor.

I’m so happy. I don’t consider myself overly emotional but I’ve caught myself tearing up a few times about how happy I am. I’ve found someone who I feel is my other half. Someone who instinctually knows me and how I feel without me saying anything. I’m the same way in terms of her I can instantly tell if something is bothering her.

My question is, since we've only been together a few months, is it too soon to propose? Knowing her, she wouldn't think it was too soon. I'm not having any doubts about the relationship, just about the timing of the proposal.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*As long as both of you are on the same emotional level and have sufficiently grieved your prior relationships, then I would see no real reason for not popping the question in the near future.

And to supplant that, I'd also strongly recommend that after you do propose, that you have a long, solid engagement of at least a year!*


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

Ya. Long engagement. 
You could be an excuse.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I'd suggest some reflection on how intimacy died in your first marriage, so you can make sure it doesn't happen again. You don't really mention sparks or chemistry with this new woman. You really want to get beyond the limerence phase of a new relationship and be sure that love and attraction will last this time before jumping to marriage. She seems to have been forbidden fruit for a long time for you, so you need to be sure your attraction is built on more than just a fantasy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with the others about a long engagement of at least 1 year. 

The reason is that the relationship that you are entering into with her is completely different than the one you two have had for years. It takes 12 to 18 months for that infatuation feeling to fade away and for reality to set in. Once that happens, people start acting differently and treating each other differently then they did when they were all "in love" when the relationship started. That heady in-love feeling is a natural reaction that humans have, it's nature's trick to get a couple to come to form a relationship and have a child. The way it works is that the brain makes and uptakes feel-good hormones like oxytocin, dopamine, etc. Basically you both are high on hormones right now. 

So give it time. Get to know each other very well before you marry.

Also, you say that you fell out of love with your wife. This is an indication that you do not know how to maintain the love and passion in a long term marriage. There are a couple of books that can help you learn that: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order. You probably should ask your friend to read them as well.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think you should put the brakes on, you are on a high in love right now due to dopamine. It does not last. 
YOu need to ensure this relationship can last for the long haul and is not based on hormones, memories from yore or wishful thinking. Slow down and enjoy the moments and memory building.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

FinallyHappy1970 said:


> I’m 48 and my late wife and I met when we were 22 and go married when we were 27. We had an ok marriage and she was a good wife and mother but there wasn’t much love between us. Intimacy died pretty quickly as did affection. I loved her as a person but wasn’t in love with her for a long time. We had kids and she was the best mother to them. Honestly, if I could have picked my mom, I would have picked someone like her. She was a nice person, a good wife, but there were never an sparks or chemistry between us. She was a great friend. I stuck by her and never ever let her know how I felt about our marriage or that I wasn’t in love with her. I stood by her side three years ago when she got sick and died two years ago. Took months off work to help take care of her. She eventually l passed away and mourned the loss of a friend but especially the mother of my children. Even though I hadn’t been in love with her I never stopped doing things to make her feel like I was. I think she died thinking I was still in love with her - and that’s ok. She never knew I wasn’t and I don’t feel bad because she never knew any different.
> 
> About ten years ago I got a job in a new ER (I’m a nurse). One of my coworkers and I became very close friends (this isn’t a story of adultery, calm down).* She had a boyfriend and we talked about our relationships, problems, and how to fix them.* Shes a great girl - beautiful, kind, funny, smart, and very sweet. We considered each other close friends, but *she always send signals she was interested in me - spending down time with me, asking me to come chat with her whenever I’d walk by, finding little excuses to touch me, give me deep looks, her eyes would light up when I’d walk into work*, etc... I ignored them but slowly began to fall for her - this was long after my romantic feelings for my wife had faded.
> 
> ...


The bolded parts of your post are what you need to worry about. 

You paint of a picture of an unrequited emotional affair with you being upstanding and loyal to your wife and the poor damsel in distress being forced into a marriage against her wishes.

What you have is two people who were engaging inappropriately on the job and jeopardizing their marriages. What will happen when you two marry and it isn't all sunshine and roses when cultures and expectations clash? Will she seek out another man to complain to about you?

So, you and your emotional affair partner hung out with your respective spouses and you think your wife never suspected you weren't in love with her?

I'm sorry; but, I don't see this as a sweet, uplifting story of love finally coming to fruition. I see it as a tawdry example of not setting boundaries with other people when in a relationship.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

a_new_me said:


> Ya. Long engagement.
> You could be an excuse.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think we'd get married for at least a year after the proposal.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I'd suggest some reflection on how intimacy died in your first marriage, so you can make sure it doesn't happen again.


Intimacy died because she slowly shut it down and as unwilling to change. If we hadn't had kids so soon after marriage I likely would have divorced. It wasn't a terrible marriage, we didn't fight much and we did get along well as friends and parented our children well. They are now well adjusted, smart, and great young adults.



Hopeful Cynic said:


> You don't really mention sparks or chemistry with this new woman. You really want to get beyond the limerence phase of a new relationship and be sure that love and attraction will last this time before jumping to marriage. She seems to have been forbidden fruit for a long time for you, so you need to be sure your attraction is built on more than just a fantasy.


Therein lies the problem with posting things online, there is only a finite amount of information that can be provided. So, to answer your post - yes we have a lot of sparks and chemistry together. Always have. Its really very hard for me to put into words. I'm usually a pretty high-strung, Type-A personality and around her I feel an inner calm. I still get butterflies whenever we kiss and her eyes still light up whenever I come into work. 

I've reflected a lot about whther this is just infatuation or whether I she was the "forbidden fruit" as you said. It is neither of those. This is built on a very close friendship and we've both talked about how close we've been for a long time.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

FinallyHappy1970 said:


> .
> 
> My question is, since we've only been together a few months, is it too soon to propose? Knowing her, she wouldn't think it was too soon. I'm not having any doubts about the relationship, just about the timing of the proposal.


No, but why do you need the security of other opinions? You of the type to stick through thick and thin, but for the insecurity of not taking a stand in your life is unnerving of sorts. Quit following the plan, jump off the wagon do your own walking don't just sit in the wagon motionless get out and see where your legs take you.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Long post. I'm not sure how old she is. 
Do you guys plan to have kids?

Are you two equal in terms of income?

Whether you decide to marry today or next year, I suggest a prenup. One, to protect your kids. Two, because you both know 'things' can go South.

Finally, find out what she thinks about a prenup prior to asking her to marry you. That way it's not so anti romantic to draw up a prenup prior to the wedding.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The bolded parts of your post are what you need to worry about.
> 
> You paint of a picture of an unrequited emotional affair with you being upstanding and loyal to your wife and the poor damsel in distress being forced into a marriage against her wishes.
> 
> ...


I agree...
Lipstick on a pig.....


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Robert22205 said:


> Long post. I'm not sure how old she is.
> Do you guys plan to have kids?


She's 35. When she was younger she wanted kids, now she is unsure if she does due to her age. If she did, I would be totally onboard with it.



Robert22205 said:


> Are you two equal in terms of income?


Yes. We live in California and nurses are unionized here. We've both been nurses for about the same amount of time (it's a second career for me) and are on the same "step" at our employer. I make a little bit more than she does as I work night shift and have a night shift differential and she works evenings so has a smaller evening differential but the difference is not significant.



Robert22205 said:


> Whether you decide to marry today or next year, I suggest a prenup. One, to protect your kids. Two, because you both know 'things' can go South.
> 
> Finally, find out what she thinks about a prenup prior to asking her to marry you. That way it's not so anti romantic to draw up a prenup prior to the wedding.



This is one aspect I hadn't thought about, but will definitely bring up. I don't think she'd be opposed to it as she has her own assets that she'd likely want to protect as well.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> The bolded parts of your post are what you need to worry about.
> 
> You paint of a picture of an unrequited emotional affair with you being upstanding and loyal to your wife and the poor damsel in distress being forced into a marriage against her wishes.
> 
> ...


I am in agreement with this post. This has been an emotional affair all these years, whether you want to call it that or not. It is what it is. I would suggest you learn from this that a relationship such as this is completely inappropriate when you are married.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Because of your ages and position in life, I say go for it. Jump into the adventure. But realize that it is a crazy step and there are inherent risks because it's been a short time, so structure things so that it won't be super messy if it doesn't work out. Ideally, you guys would walk away friends if it didn't work out rather than getting into a contentious divorce battle. Talk to lawyers and such so that each of your assets stay pretty much separate and there's nothing really to split. But hopefully it works out.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

I'm going to address a couple of common remarks/questions in this thread that should be clarified.

1. In terms of culture, my late wife was also Indian. So, for me it's nothing new. It's a little bit easier with my girlfriend as she is Catholic like myself, whereas my late wife was Sikh. Her family has met me and her parents like me a lot, as do her brother and sister. They've been in the US for a long time (40 years) and are pretty "Americanized." She has also indicated that she wouldn't want a huge typically Indian wedding since this will be both of our second marriages. Which is fine by me.

2. In terms of protecting my assets, she knows that everything I have will go to the kids and she's fine with it. She knows the kids are my priority. We are pretty much equal when it comes to income and assets - we each own our respective houses, have pretty similar savings and retirements, etc... I'm going to broach the topic of a prenup and see what she thinks/says about it.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

wilson said:


> But realize that it is a crazy step and there are inherent risks because it's been a short time, so structure things so that it won't be super messy if it doesn't work out.


We wouldn't get married right away. We'd have an engagement period of at least a year to two years prior to the wedding.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I'd suggest some reflection on how intimacy died in your first marriage, so you can make sure it doesn't happen again. You don't really mention sparks or chemistry with this new woman. You really want to get beyond the limerence phase of a new relationship and be sure that love and attraction will last this time before jumping to marriage. She seems to have been forbidden fruit for a long time for you, so you need to be sure your attraction is built on more than just a fantasy.


I agree with this. The forbidden fruit thing is real. I think it is often what leads to affairs. Not saying it was an emotional affair but this intense relationship with a women could have contributed to the emotional distance from his wife. Depending on the timeline. This is why intense relationships with potential mates is not good when you are married even when you have the best of intentions. Something to think about OP as you move forward with this women. 

OP you need to make sure you were not chasing the feelings with this women because after the intensity dies down and it will you don't want to allow that to happen with someone else. The forbidden or restrictive nature of the relationship has a tendency to heighten the intensity. This is why dating for a while might be a good thing. You know what it is to be stuck in an emotionally dead marriage, you don't want that again. 

When I was a teenager just out of high school I had cause to be around this women in her early 20s almost every day. She was much further along in her life then me. There was a very pretty girl who liked me and this older women basically told me in a kind of (you two young people are so cute). I think I was kind of insulted to be talked down but also I was really attracted to this 20 year old. I let it slip that I didn't care about the girl my age but I wanted her. She quickly dismissed it told me I was cute and she was flattered but there was no way she would date someone so young. After that the intensity of my attraction was more then I had ever felt before and rarely since. So I pursued this girl more intensely then I have ever done in my entire life. Poems, tapes left with songs on them. Sulking and flirting. After about 3 months of this she "gave in". I use that word for a purpose. We had a very intense relationship for about another 3 months then one day I just didn't feel that way anymore. I broke up with her. What I learned was a lot of that attraction for me was the challenge, the forbidden nature of it (it wasn't an affair) but she was much to old for me. She was right I was too immature, and she went against her better sense and got burned for it. To my shame what I wanted was to get her to "give in". Years later when I started reading about affairs I started to remember how I felt back then and even though my situation wasn't an affair I realized that it operated similarly. It's the wanting what you can't have that makes you feel the feelings so intense. 

Anyway I say all that to say right now you are enjoying the release of finally being able to have what you wanted. This may be the same stage I had the 3 months we had a relationship. But you would be wise to wait until the intensity of that wears down, as I am sure you know marriage is so much more then just those feelings. Even love as great as that is. Why not enjoy dating and courting this women. If things work out this may be the last time you will court a women who isn't your wife. Don't rush through it. If you are meant to be married it will happen. The proposal doesn't have to be around a new exciting place, it can be just as romantic if you do it around something that is very personal. That doesn't have to be some vacation spot it can be around the corner, which means you don't have to rush.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Honestly, moving in together would be a first step for me before any engagement. Do you even HAVE to get engaged anymore?? An engagement to me just seems like words..... Just start planning on the wedding...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

So my take on this is a bit different from others. I'm concerned about how you let the passion die out in your first marriage without making the effort required to get things on track. Even if it wouldn't have worked, still, you didn't make the effort. One could read that as a sign that you left the marriage even sooner than your late wife. Or worse; that your late wife never had the opportunity to fix something she didn't know about. 

OK, so now this does in fact run parallel to the "forbidden fruit" model, hadn't thought of that until now. It may not be coincidence that you didn't work on fixing your marriage issues at about the same time the new woman came into your life.

This plays out in two ways. First, as an issue of conscience. Did you do all that you should have done (in your first marriage), and if you later come around to thinking maybe not... how is this going to affect you? Second, is it an indication of how things might fare the next time around? 

This assumes that you had a good reason to marry your late wife, a reason other than "having to", and I suspect you did have some spark or chemistry because you made a point that your current partner's marriage was in the "have to" scenario. So... what happened to that spark/chemistry? When and how did it die? 

You're here because you're seeking validation for how you feel. Having others soul-search for you isn't nearly as important as doing so yourself. Take some time and really think about what's been brought up. Your new partner may be the best move forward for both of you. But let's take some time and examine what you're bringing to the table.

All the best-


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FinallyHappy1970 said:


> I showed her a poem by Rumi (I Choose to Love You In Silence).


(Nods with approval) My man...

If you read my other post, I get the desperation of dreaming dreams never hoped for and having it suddenly become real. Enjoy the HELL out of this moment for however long it last. 

_Man this post brought up a lot of very good memories that I had forgotten._


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> So my take on this is a bit different from others. I'm concerned about how you let the passion die out in your first marriage without making the effort required to get things on track. Even if it wouldn't have worked, still, you didn't make the effort. One could read that as a sign that you left the marriage even sooner than your late wife. Or worse; that your late wife never had the opportunity to fix something she didn't know about.
> 
> OK, so now this does in fact run parallel to the "forbidden fruit" model, hadn't thought of that until now. It may not be coincidence that you didn't work on fixing your marriage issues at about the same time the new woman came into your life.
> 
> ...


This is true and why I also mentioned it. It should also be said that if his wife abandoned him first and he chose to keep his promise, was attracted to someone but kept it professional to maintain his honor. If his wife abandoned him intimately and he honored his promise sacrificing love for half his life that is quite a big sacrifice and I can't fault a man for finding some moments to talk, if all it was was talk. 

The one thing that I would also point out is there may have been some cultural differences that contributed to that in his first marriage. 

But on that note OP are you sure you didn't also pick your first wife because that was forbidden, in the sense that her parents were not cool with you and there was probably also a desperation in the relationship that like I said in my other post heightens the intensity.

Before you get married make sure this is not a pattern. That the attraction is the forbidden nature of the relationship. The challenge.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Give'r. You're both adults and have been down the marriage path before, so you know what you're doing. I knew I wanted to marry my wife a few weeks into dating her.

Long engagements are good engagements though. Have fun with it.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

sokillme said:


> This is true and why I also mentioned it. It should also be said that if his wife abandoned him first and he chose to keep his promise, was attracted to someone but kept it professional to maintain his honor. If his wife abandoned him intimately and he honored his promise sacrificing love for half his life that is quite a big sacrifice and I can't fault a man for finding some moments to talk, if all it was was talk.


I wouldn't call what my wife did "abandonment" but she did tone down and eventually stop the intimacy pretty quickly. We were together 20 years, intimacy gradually slowed down until we had kids (they are 17 and 16). I didn't meet this coworker until we had been married for 10 years. Had we not had children, I would have divorced my wife. It was hard, but I hid my unhappiness from everyone very well. No one ever knew how unhappy I was and no one ever will. At this point, it's pretty useless. Had my wife lived, I probably would have divorced her after my youngest moved out when she's 18. Both my kids are choosing to go away to college; both want to join the military.



sokillme said:


> The one thing that I would also point out is there may have been some cultural differences that contributed to that in his first marriage.
> 
> But on that note OP are you sure you didn't also pick your first wife because that was forbidden, in the sense that her parents were not cool with you and there was probably also a desperation in the relationship that like I said in my other post heightens the intensity.


Even though my wife's family was Indian and Sikh, there was never any problem from her family about being with me. Her parents both immigrated to the US when they were very young (her dad was a baby, her mom was 2). So they were basically Americanized but still held onto some cultural practices - such as our days long wedding, going to temple, etc...


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

In addition to a prenup, I think you guys should consider 'couples' counseling.

I'm not talking about the basic one size fits all pre marriage counseling - but rather therapy designed for you two (with lots of input from each of you based on your prior marriage experiences as to what topics to cover). 

And at some point discuss your 'friendship' and how it influenced each of you while married to another.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> The bolded parts of your post are what you need to worry about.
> 
> You paint of a picture of an unrequited emotional affair with you being upstanding and loyal to your wife and the poor damsel in distress being forced into a marriage against her wishes.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly. 

OP you said this 'We considered each other close friends, but she always send signals she was interested in me - spending down time with me, asking me to come chat with her whenever I’d walk by, finding little excuses to touch me, give me deep looks, her eyes would light up when I’d walk into work, etc... I ignored them but slowly began to fall for her - this was long after my romantic feelings for my wife had faded'

Are you ok being with a woman who thinks nothing of acting this way with a married man when she too is married? Of flirting and making it clear that she fancies you? So much so that you seemed to fall in love with her? Of risking 2 marriages ending? Basically you both had a long standing emotional affair behind your respective spouses backs. Not the sort of person I would risk marrying at all. Clearly has few boundaries. 
If she did it to her first husband she can do to you.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

So you had an ongoing emotional affair with this woman for over a decade, which caused you to fall out of love with your wife.

Your wife has passed away and your "friend" is getting divorced.

Now you are free to be with your friend. However, in order to assure you don't create future problems for yourself, I agree with those who believe you need to date her in your new, open, no holds barred, singleness for at least 18 months.

If you are still mad about her after 18 months of no secrecy, being on your best behavior, etc, by all means propose to her and have a short engagement.


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## kettle (Oct 28, 2016)

Do it! Sounds very romantic.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Are you ok being with a woman who thinks nothing of acting this way with a married man when she too is married? Of flirting and making it clear that she fancies you?


I got this response a couple times somewhere else I think it's ridiculous. She has not acted this way with anyone else and made it clear that she's had feelings for me for years. At this point in time, I've come to peace with the fact she acted like this with me while I was married and don't have a problem with it.




Diana7 said:


> So much so that you seemed to fall in love with her? Of risking 2 marriages ending? Basically you both had a long standing emotional affair behind your respective spouses backs. Not the sort of person I would risk marrying at all. Clearly has few boundaries.
> If she did it to her first husband she can do to you.


You can try in spin it however you want to make yourself feel better; however, this was not an affair. Neither of us expressed our feelings towards each other until we were single and we certainly didn't act on those feelings until we were single. That is not an affair in any sense of the imagination.

Unfortunately, sometimes people get married to the wrong person. I stayed with my wife because of the kids. She never knew this was why I stayed with her. She never had any idea of how I felt about my friend. I treated her well and gave her the life she wanted. She died happy. No one can know this but myself and the kids, so posters can Monday-morning quarter back this all they want to try to spin it otherwise but they weren't there and they don't know. Period and end of discussion.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Adelais said:


> So you had an ongoing emotional affair with this woman for over a decade, which caused you to fall out of love with your wife.


No, re-read the post. There was no affair involved. We never expressed or acted on our feelings until we were both single, that is not an affair. No matter what mental gymnastics you try to play to spin it that way. 

Additionally, if you had read and understood my entire post, I fell out of love with my wife years before I met my coworker. If you can't read the post and understand what is posted and respond with how you *think* something happened rather than how it did, don't bother responding in the future. Sorry if that's abbrassive, but lack of comprehension and reading into things too much where you create a fantasy that doesn't exist is a huge pet peeve of mine.

As I mentioned to other posters. I stayed with my wife for the kids. She had a good life and was happy. She was well-taken care of and had the life she wanted. She died happy. She had absolutely no idea of how I felt about my friend. 




Adelais said:


> Your wife has passed away and your "friend" is getting divorced.


No, the divorce has been finalized.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

FinallyHappy1970 said:


> Additionally, if you had read and understood my entire post, I fell out of love with my wife years before I met my coworker.


This is being called out because it's often a pattern we see here. All marriages are hard and have tough spots. Even though you say you fell out of love years before, having the friendship and emotional support with this coworker made it much easier to continue along the same path in your marriage. If you had not had that outside connection, you may have been more motivated to find a solution to your marriage problems, even if that solution was divorce.

You may want to be aware of this pattern in future relationships. It's understandable why it happened, but it can also make it easy to not deal with relationship problems. And this pattern often does lead to physical affairs. You personally may not go down that path, but it's definitely one of the first steps on the path. Emotional talks lead to lunches, then happy hours, then supportive hugs, then pecks on the cheek goodbye and so on and so on. If you're married, you really shouldn't be leaning on opposite sex people for emotional support for lots of reasons.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

wilson said:


> having the friendship and emotional support with this coworker made it much easier to continue along the same path in your marriage.


What "emotional support" was that? Did you read the post? Particularly the part where I mentioned that I did not talk to my friend about the problems in my marriage or give any indication that I was unhappy in my marriage?

A lot of people here are responding with their own biased assumptions rather than the truth of what actually went down. You know what happens when you assume things....




wilson said:


> If you had not had that outside connection, you may have been more motivated to find a solution to your marriage problems, even if that solution was divorce.


The plan was to divorce my wife when the kids moved out of the house for college in a couple of years. 




wilson said:


> If you're married, you really shouldn't be leaning on opposite sex people for emotional support for lots of reasons.


See above.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@FinallyHappy1970:

You need to realize that there are people that post in these boards that for them, the moment you breathe the air that surrounds you and another woman/man that's ground for infidelity/improper behavior. So, just let those comments pass you by, and don't give them another thought. 
As for your original question: take your time. If after about a year it feels natural, and the relationship flows without resistance go for it.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> @FinallyHappy1970:
> 
> You need to realize that there are people that post in these boards that for them, the moment you breathe the air that surrounds you and another woman/man that's ground for infidelity/improper behavior. So, just let those comments pass you by, and don't give them another thought.
> As for your original question: take your time. If after about a year it feels natural, and the relationship flows without resistance go for it.


I agree with you completely that for some poor souls the threshold for infidelity is very very low. But what's happened after that is other posters tend to feed into those lies and fantasies and it eventually balloons out into something that's completely distorted from the truth that the comments are no longer helpful.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

FinallyHappy1970 said:


> What "emotional support" was that? Did you read the post? Particularly the part where I mentioned that I did not talk to my friend about the problems in my marriage or give any indication that I was unhappy in my marriage?


Even so, you likely got emotional support from having an opposite-sex friend to talk with. Regardless of whether you discussed marriage problems, having a woman as a close friend helped fill that part of you that needed female companionship. It sounds like your prior marriage had a well-known end date, so maybe it was okay there, but in a general sense in can be risky to have emotionally close relationships with opposite-sex people because emotions are unpredictable. Here on TAM we may be jaded, but it's only because we have seen so many affairs and marriages break up because situations like yours get out of hand. It's like how firefighters say how dangerous it is to play with fire. It's a situation which can easily get out of control.



FinallyHappy1970 said:


> She was a great friend. I stuck by her and never ever let her know how I felt about our marriage or that I wasn’t in love with her..





> The plan was to divorce my wife when the kids moved out of the house for college in a couple of years.


Did your wife know any of this? It sounds like it was all one-sided from you. If you had shared with her, she may have worked to make things better.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

I think some of you need to give him a break. In a long term relationship you are aware of other people that come through your life that you know instantly that you need to avoid for all the reasons others have already listed. 

If you have never experienced that then either you lack emotional intelligence about yourself or you are so new to your current relationship that you have yet to experience any friction.

I believe the OP is saying that:
1) he was aware of his feeling towards his now object of affections (perhaps idealized then)
2) he didn’t act on it then 
3) she was aware then as well (perhaps idealized)
4) she didn’t act on them
5) through life events that they didn’t orchestrate the “barriers” for acting were removed
6) action now on their mutual feelings seems weird given #2 and #4 in the past. 

My opinion is that you need to make sure that what is happening now is real vs idealized feelings of yesteryear. Date awhile (a year or more). If you still feel the same and she still feels the same after a year or more then engage. I don’t think the engagement has to be long. I would not suggesting engaging now just to keep from losing her. If you are playing that game I think you have your answer.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

pbj2016 said:


> I believe the OP is saying that:
> 1) he was aware of his feeling towards his now object of affections (perhaps idealized then)
> 2) he didn’t act on it then
> 3) she was aware then as well (perhaps idealized)
> ...


You are correct up through point number 5. Just because we each had feelings for each other, doesn't mean we acted on them. She was completely unaware of my feelings towards her, she didn't hide hers as well as I did, but I still never acted on them nor called her out on them.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by point six. Are you saying that for other posters it's weird? Because for me it's certainly not weird.



pbj2016 said:


> My opinion is that you need to make sure that what is happening now is real vs idealized feelings of yesteryear. Date awhile (a year or more). If you still feel the same and she still feels the same after a year or more then engage. I don’t think the engagement has to be long. I would not suggesting engaging now just to keep from losing her. If you are playing that game I think you have your answer.


At my age, 48, I'm sure about what I want in life and out of a partner, hence why some might think we're jumping into an engagement. It's not just the romantic feelings we've had all these years, it's also the close friendship we've had. I'm not looking for an engagement because I fear loosing her, she's not pressuring me at all to get engaged or married. She knows I want to marry her and I know she wants to marry me. But there has been no "I want to get married by x year" or "If you don't marry me soon we'll be over."


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OP I haven't had a chance to slog through the whole thread so I'm basing my response just from your initial post.

When I met my husband I knew after the first date he was the one. I had dated and been in a long term relationship. I had paid attention to those around me and I simply knew what I wanted. I found it. I decided to keep it.

Me and my husband married 5 weeks after the first date. We are together 26 years later. We don't fight, we don't have problems and it seems like a blink of an eye. I covet more time with him. I don't do girls night out because I don't want to miss a night with him.

The whole thing is too cheesy.

So you have kids. That makes making a good decision way more important. You have to know if you actually know what you want or you are just happy to not be in the **** hole situation that made you get divorced. You have to have a good judge of character. Is she just pretending to be what you want? Do you communicate? Have you both shown the willingness to bend for the other?

In the end one of my favorite movie lines is 'I figured out I want to spend the rest of my life with you and I want that to start right now'. 

So no I don't think it is too soon. But very few people look at the world as straight forward as I do, they often have hope and dream that they let color reality. 

On the flip side. I know many women whose men waited and waited and waited before proposing. Even had to give them an ultimatum. In the end even after they were married the still had lingering feelings of inadequacy and resentment because they felt their guy didn't love them enough to propose and they had to 'force' him into the marriage or they guy married them because of the children or what have you. If you are looking at forever don't start by waiting 5 years.


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## FinallyHappy1970 (Jan 9, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I covet more time with him. I don't do girls night out because I don't want to miss a night with him.


This is how we are as well. On our days off we are usually together although we do spend time alone a day or two during the week, usually when are days off are different. She doesn't do girls night out and I don't do guys night out. Our friends are pretty much our coworkers so if we do go out with friends it's together with a big group. Interestingly, there are a number couples (some married) who met at my work. So there are often a number of couples going out with us as well.





Anastasia6 said:


> So you have kids. That makes making a good decision way more important. You have to know if you actually know what you want or you are just happy to not be in the **** hole situation that made you get divorced. You have to have a good judge of character. Is she just pretending to be what you want? Do you communicate? Have you both shown the willingness to bend for the other?


To address the kids issue. My kids are older teens. They will be going away to college next year and the year after respectively. They won't be in the house for much longer. That being said, they've met my girlfriend on multiple occasions, they like her very much as does she. They've even gone on a few outings together just the three of them to get to know each other better. They both know we want to get married and are happy with that decision.

Just to correct a point: my wife and I didn't divorce, she passed away. My girlfriend and her ex divorce a couple of years ago because he cheated on her. There's was an Indian marriage, more for convenience and it was expected than anything else. Unfortunately a lot of my friends from that culture are in marriages like that.

After a decade of friendship, we know each other pretty well and I very much doubt that she's just pretending to be what I want. Remember, she had no idea that I felt this way about her. I never gave her any indication that I had feelings for her until my wife passed away.

I think we communicate quite well. We've gotten into little arguments, nothing serious, but it's never been anything that we can't work through. We spend quite a bit of time together. Remember, we met at work and continue to be coworkers and work almost the exact same schedule. So I see her three days per week at work as well as two or three other days during the week in which we do other things or spend time together just the two of us or do something together with my kids.





Anastasia6 said:


> In the end one of my favorite movie lines is 'I figured out I want to spend the rest of my life with you and I want that to start right now'.


That's pretty much the feeling we both have. We've been very close friends for so long and have had feelings for each other for so long we just both have the "lets just do it" attitude towards getting married. 

Maybe people here are being negative about our relationship because they're jealous that they've never experienced something like this before. I don't know.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well I think that they are worried that the majority of people don't look at life the way it is ignore red flags and get caught in relationships that they figure out later they can't live with the ..... that they overlooked in the beginning. Then people get divorced.

It is a valid concern. Only you know which is which. 

But I've never have regretted marrying my husband 'too soon'.


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