# 10 years...why's it going to end this way?



## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

hello all i am new here and i am in desperate need of some advice... really i just need to know if this is my fault... 

my wife and i met in collage and we were inseparable... she stayed at work with me and moved in with me in under 2 weeks of knowing eachother. a few months later we shared an appartment with her friend to save money (a woman who i disliked) and she got pregnant, we where both excited. we decided to move our wedding plans up to before she started to show and had a small ceremony with friends and immediate family only. it was beutifull and wonderfull and i was the happiest man on earth.

my oldest son was born in march of the next year and things started to concern me.... she went in to a deep depression and stopped caring about any thing... there were always rays of hope that shined through though... we moved a few times had two more children (2 boys and a girl... awsome wonderful kids) and the dression just kept getting worse... she stopped taking care of the kids all together and stopped taking care of her self... i have been trying to help her find herself ever since and she refused to go to a consoler.. she was demanding abusive and controlling. she had to have me there every second of the day or have constant contact with me in some way to feel secure at all... 

now she is telling me that she hasn't needed that for years and never told me... she says to me i have been smothering and controlling... how was i supposed to know she was beyond needing me to do things for her when she never told me.. and to make matters worse, she pretended that every thing was fine and told me constantly how much she loved me right up untill she decided to tell me she was sick of every.... what a bomb shell to drop on a man who has changed whoo he is and beaten off CPS with a stick for the last ten years of taking caare of her and the kids... 

oh...cps...they were called becouse she didn't take care of the kids before getting them on the bus for school or just wouldn't bother to get them on at all... i had to work, how was i to know that my kids were going to school in shorts in december in michigan???

any ways, i couldn't get her to do much of any thing except play on the computer, watch tv, and read... now she is telling me i have been controlling and manipulative and mentally abusive and clingy....WHAT!?!?! 

the problem is... she was starting to get better a while back, then she slipped back...or so i thought... cuz now she is telling me she's just found it really hard to do any thing for me... sinse i am so much of a prick... 

i tried doing the whole "Mort Fertel" thing but the only thing i can see is that i have been the perfect husband and the problem is with her... but she won't do any thing... and to be honest.. i am still madly inlove with her...

she cheated on me with my best friend, had an online lover and continues to berate me for cleaning up the messes she gets her self in to.... but god help me, i love her to death... 

how do you get a person to see their own flaws with out making matters worse and how do you over come 7 years of hatred built up by her not being open and honest with me? 

please help me.. i can see the woman i love... but i can't seem to reach her...

maybe i'm an idiot... maybe the little voice that is telling me to dump the ***** on the curb is right... perhaps i should take my kids and tell her to make it on her own for a while... perhaps i should just let her destroy her self the way she will without me as a safty net to her.. but i just can't give up on her.... 

thanks for listening...

sincerely,


heart broken


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

honestly, any advice, any help, any coments...they would all be appreciated....this is my first post about this problem and a cry for help and/or guidance...i need and want both.. i am adrift on a sea of pain and loneliness.


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

I get the feeling from your post that maybe you are codependent on her. You should go see a counselor and find out what is going with you. It seems that for 10 years you have put up with alot and she keeps stepping on you. Don't you think you deserve better? I am not saying someone else but at least better treatment from her. She seems to know that no matter what she does, your always there and forgiving. Just the affair alone with your best friend would have done most people in. Do you have other activities or hobbies that you do outside the home? She is obviously taking you for granted, maybe she would wake up if she saw that you can do just fine without her.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

you are right...i do have issues that i have been working on latly. the problem is the more i think about it the more i realise that i should leave her, and i don't want to.... asisde from the obvious issues that i am dealing with on codependentsies.. we have 3 children that she won't care for and i wor full time and have given up most if not all of my friends and family over the years...i have no support group. i can't leave the kids with her and i can't afford to take them with me if i go...... 

ultimatly though..i want us to work. and i am trying to figure out how to get her to try a little with out having to resort to threats and intimidation using the kids as leverage.. her friends tel her she is lucky to have me and she needs to open her eyes and treat me right but it seanms like no one can get through to her... and she won't go to counseling....


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

If all this is accurate and she won't go to counciling? It is done as far as I can see. So sorry for your pain.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I think you realize that even if she GOT custody of the kids, given the history with CPS you would get them back quickly if she was not caring for them. 

Usually to change a behavior pattern this deep that has gone on this long requires a serious CHANGE of some sort. Could be a divorce. What is cannot be is you continuing to let her continue to do what she has been. 






Atholk said:


> What medications is she on? She sounds really really off balance.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

thank you... every one... 

Believe, 

Thank you for pointing out that i may have co-dependancy issues. since you wrote that i have realised that you ARE right, and i have taken that that out of the equasion and tryed to look at it more openly (that is a hard thing to do) and can see just how badly she treats me... of course just writing it down helped to see it and that was just the tip of the ice berg.... 

Mem,
thank you for pointing that out...i think i knew that but it helps to hear it.

Atholk,
she is on paxil.. she has recently been told that she might have MPD and ran with that... she uses it for an excuse for EVERY THING.. now i know it is tough, but it is not a reason to be the way she is.. the same counselor that told her that also told me that i have a "mild" case of it...as in mine all function as a whole... (not exactly sure what that means) but she also told me that i seem normal...

i have started to actually make expectations of her and hold her t her promises... may be if i just stop enabling her to be this way she will turn a corner..if not....then i hate to say it but she will have to go... not me HER... she can expain to her dad how she has to move in with him becouse i couldn't stand the way she treated me any longer... (i actually like her family so i hate to loose them but...)

i have also decided that i am going to take the internet out of my home so she can't get lost in it any more... perhaps just removing her addiction will get her motivated? 

i may be doing all the wrong things... but one thing is for sure, i CAN NOT live like this any longer, and neither can my kids... they need their mother... not this person...

any feed back would be appreciated please... i am unsure about if i am doing the right things or not and i am in need of support or guidance, what ever it is you think i need... i am open to any and all coments.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I think shutting down the internet will only reinforce her belief that you are controlling. 

I think you are at the brink of needing things to change, no matter what that means for your marriage. I would tell her what you will no longer put up with...the verbal abuse, neglect of the kids, etc. and that you are willing to put serious work into the marriage, listen to her issues and work on things yourself but if she has no interest in doing the same, then you will be taking steps to ensure your kids and you are okay...you will need to cut back in order to make sure the kids are cared for...cut back on extras like the internet, so you can afford after school daycare for them.

She does sound off-balance so I'm not really sure how that comes into the picture, but you are right...your kids need their mother and if she cannot be there, you need someone that will care for them when you are at work.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

exactly.. i am planning on having that discussion with her tonigh, as for the internet... well that is already shut off.. it was not planned to be but i had to let a few bills slide to make sure we have the essentials...

i am past the brink actually, now that i have opened my eyes and can see what is really going on, i am not sure i can last even days of it any more.... now that i see it i am just angry with her, i still love her, i probably always will, but i need a better home, my kids need a better home... i do not plan on yelling, screaming or talking down to her just setting the ground rules... and if she can not or will not follow them, then she can go, but the kids will stay... i am actually reluctant to tell her that though becouse i don't want to use them as pawns in our relationship...they are kids and need to be left out of it and allowed to be kids...

the only one i think will really be to upset is our daughter, she is the only one she really pays any attention to.. the boys haven't had a mother for some time now....

i will be checking this a few more times before i leave work, and any thoughts would be appreciated... if nothing else, i will let you know how it goes or if i chickened out... be couse in all honesty... i do still love her and i DON'T want to hurt her...  but i know that this has to happen... it is the only way left.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I would take care in how you approach her. I'm glad you've already decided to talk calmly and not down to her, that will make a huge difference. 

The thing is, you want her to get a wake-up call that her behavior is unacceptable as a wife & mother. Laying down ground rules almost sounds like talking down to her...like you are saying how things will go...just be careful here...what you really want (I think) is to have a talk where it's not pointing fingers and bickering back and forth, but a real serious conversation about what is working and what isn't...the type of conversation where she doesn't feel attacked, that you are 'blaming' her for all of the problems...but rather that x, y and z are not working for our family...not you need to do this or that or you are doing this or that wrong...but more of a gentle approach...I feel that by the way you speak to me, you must be really annoyed with me or not like me very much...I would rather talk about how we can work on that because I don't think the way we relate to each other is healthy for the kids...

And, don't use the kids as pawns...but if you can actually get a positive response from her (this will have a lot to do with how you approach her...don't put her on the defensive)...you can also discuss the kids...and say if we can't make this work with us, lets agree to at least do right by our children so the impact is minimal.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

actually, i just found out that the internet at home was NOT shut off yet  and she is now in the "oh whoo is me" frame of mind and has decided that she fails at every thing.. "being a wife and mother most of all" <--- her words

and i tried to tell her that she doesn't fail... "she just has a few issues, we all do" my exact words... she said she would never be perfect, and i tiold her she didn't have to be perfect and that no one expected her to be perfect... she completely shut down and wouldn't hear any more, i asked her this morning (politly mind you) to fold the laundry, do the dishes and change the kitty litter.. (i am allergic to the litter and cats in general actually.. but i love them and she refused to live without them, and i wanted the dishes doen so i wouldn't need to do them before I cook dinner tonight) we ended the conversation by me asking if she was going to have time to get to them since she woke up at noon missed my daughters bus had to go get her from the bus garage and was now playing another [email protected]#$ing pc game and playing on the web... i told her i lved her and i would see her later...

what the hell...... i hope she does SOMETHING ANY THING i really don't want to have to be an ass to her but i am begining to think the only way left to comunicate with her is to yell at her for a change (i never yell at her NEVER) i think she needs to see that i am fed up with her being this way and that she needs to be a responsible adult.. ilove her to death but i think i may need to start treating her like a child and yes, lay down the law.. as bad as that is, the civil discusions only seem to work for a week, i think i need to show her that i REALLY MEEN IT this time...

am i wrong?


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Hoping you sound like how I was for years. Expecting all this to get done. Facts are she is hurting inside and might not be capable now of doing the things you would like. It will only get wors if you continue to breath over her. You have to relax and do the things that got to get done without taking it out on her. If you continue down this road it will get a lot worse for her. If you care you'll do whatever you can with no expectations.. Took a while for me to learn that but once I did my wife is slowly starting to see herself not doing anything and at times she helps me. Its a start..


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

i have been stepping back and giving her time...she took it and cheated on me... i have tried to be there for her and i have tried to help her and i have tried to just comfort her... i know she's hurting inside but she has to try and get over it eventually... now i am not planning on being a prick to her, i don't want to be a prick, i love her.. and actually i have just had yet another discussion with her...it is like she has been reading this hole thread??? 

she told me she wants to get better and asked me for help... how do i do that if i have been trying for so long and she has been refusing to accept help... does she really want it this time?? does she want to get better?? i don't know, but what the hell one more try... potentially one more heart ache.. but i have to keep trying if there is any hope... i promised her that 10 years ago... and i will not be the one to walk out the door on some one i love... but i also will not stand in her way the next time... i won't ask her to stay.. i will only let her know that she will allways be in my heart...

i hope (hense... "hoping") that she meens it this time


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Have you asked her what kind of help she is looking for?? What does she want you to do.. not what you want to do to help her. obvously she sees a problem with what you want and how you are going about it.. Trust me I know the feeling. I have done this to my wife also. If she is weak and can't ake any negative feedback it will only make her crawl into a ball more. Then one day she will have enough and just snap.. Not saying be a doormat just don't push what you want done when you want it done.. I hope you understand what I am saying..


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

i have.. and we are going to discuss it tonight so i can know what she needs and how to approach it... pray for me? i need them.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

I wish you well.. Just remember it takes LONG time and consistant love for it to work. If you sway at all she will know your only putting on a show...


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

i am goiing home tonight and i am going to ask her that very thing, and she is going to set all the rules... she took a step.. that's more then i have seen in years from her so the least i can do is let her follow through with it... may be then she will be able to stick with it.... pray for us... we need it.

i will give an update tomorrow and let you all know how it turned out.

oh and by the way... there is know show.. i do have constant love for her... even when she frustrates the hell out of me i still love her... i tried to tell her that serveral time and tried again today....


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Is she currently undergoing counseling?

I'm sure her depression is linked to having children (postpartum)...in the meantime..don't have anymore. 

I know it must be ovewhelming for you to deal with. Remember, she needs to do the work. You can assist but you can't do it for her.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

yes i understand... she asked for help yesterday and i am taking that as a very positive step... now i am just letting her lead the show, she wants to change, she is not happy with herself and it needs to be her decision on how she changes, if i want us to work she need to do it for her, not me, not the kids.. i only hope that what she wants to change about her self is not us (me and our kids) but if it is then i will survive... 

we talked last night a little, i let her pick the topics of discusion and we talked a little about how she wants to change and she asked me to try and keep her on track... my problem is that obviously my way of "keeping her on track" is obvioulsy not what she needs....... so now i am going to try a gentler less invasive way... not sure how yet but i will figure it out... (any suggestions would be nice) 

any how it went well.. she appoligised for the ways she has wronged me and the kids and wants to change... she did the dishes and folded the laundry yesterday.. she also shut off the computer and played with the kids...( i think they were shocked... it took them a few minutes to figure out what was going on) and she seemed to genuinly enjoy herself last night for the first time in years...

as my screen name states.. i am forever hoping, i do love her and i do not want to see her go.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

Corp, 

i am not going to put up with it any longer, this is her last chance and she knows it.. i have not said this to her but i have changed my aditude in the way we discuss it. i am no lionger making excuses for her.. but i refuse to reprimand her, she is an adult and i should not have to, and i don't want to...

yes, she did see some one about the depression.. she is currently on paxil that is supposed to be handling all her symptoms. but, no it is more then the postpartum, she has several other problems but her doctors (she has seen several over the years) said that the paxil was all she needed for it... i want her to go back but she hates pills and does't want to go on to any more.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

ok... so far so good.. she seems to be making an effort... and she seems to be doing it for her self (this is good i think) but she genuinly seemed to be happier yesterday.. 

she spent time with the kids, and did a few chores. she decided to let me relax a little after a long day of work and cooked diner (she wanted me to stay in the kitchen with her but she cooked) i was completly blown away.. i told her what a wonderfull job she did with the chores she did and how great it was to see her playing witht the kids.. positive reinforcement... (it's failed in the past but she wants to change this time so here's to hoping.. right) 

i am praying that this time she truely wants to change... i am expecting a slip.. we all stumble.. i wil be there to offer her help back up and support to help build her up but ultimatly it is in her hands...

what does she want?
what does she need?
what is she going to do?

all questions that se needs to SHOW the answers to.. and i am not sure she knows the answers yet...

untill later i am praying for her and us and i would like for any one else who is will ing to lend us a prayer.. we need it...

i will be back on monday to let you all know how the weekend went.. then i think i wil try to taper off a little but i will definitely be coming back here... the comments and support i've found here have saved me.. and hope fully set me on the right path to saving my marriage... 

oh and i wil be checking back before i leave work today if any one responds by then


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

No expectations.. Just love her and thank her. Even if she slips she needs to be her if what she is doing isnt her then it will go back but how you respond is key..


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

that is my plan... i have no expectations... i will be here for her, i will give her love and support... and i will help in what ever ways she asks me to... and i will make sure that if she asks for a "nudge" or reminders, that i am not coming off as badgering (no, i have not badgered her before)... other than that.. it is all in her hands, just as i said. i will be here for her but, it is all her, sha has to do it, and she has to want to do it...

now that being said.. the only real changes i NEED to see is her respecting me and taking care of the kids.. the rest... well let me deal with that.. i love her for who she is not what she does around the house


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

hoping,

I am so glad to hear she is stepping up on her own...and your positive reinforcement is also great...hopefully she will begin to see what a great impact she has on your children when she's there for them.


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

thank you... i am out for the week end now.. i will be back on monday and hopefully i will have good news... it may not sound like it but i am very optimistic  i will not push her.. this has to be her.. if it's not then there is nothing i can do.

please, contiue to pray for us and i will see you all later... have a good weekend


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## hoping (Sep 28, 2009)

ok.. the week end went well.  she was a bit more afectionate then usual and she spent more time with the kids then she has in months... we even cooked diner together  it was wonderful she did not make any drastic changes but she did do a few things around the house and she seemed genuinely happy the hole time... i know it is very early on but i think i may be on the right track finally.

i decided that instead of trying to get her to be responsible i would make the house run weather she does any thing or not, with out actually removing her from it... just removed the pressure for her to do any thing in the hope that she will want to do some of it and perhaps enjoy doing some of it... she will never be a super wife/mom but she is all i need so long as our kids are happy and feel loved and taken care of, then i am happy... and hopfully she will be too.. if she is not happy then i have tried all that i can and she will leave... but it is all up to her.. weather she stays, goes, works, doe nothing.. it is all up to her.. i will not force and i will not tell her to go unless i have no other option... we will see.. at this point she doesn't have to raise a finger for the house to be kept up and the kids to be cared for (other than getting them out the door after i am gone for work and picking up our yungest after her half day kindergarten... so, she doesn't have to be a wife or a mother... she just has to let it work, let the kids know she loves them and not stray... i don't think that is asking to much?

i will allways love her and i will allways have hope for her. i pray she finds piece and see the love she has at home... but, if she does not then i will not stand in her way iether  i will miss her i will want her to stay, i will probably feel like it's my fault... but i atleast will know that i have tried all i could and done all i could... the ball is in her court and she knows it... not becouse i told her but i think she can feel that i have finally grown enough to seee that i do not NEED her to survive, although i do feel as though i need her, i know now that i can survive with out her.. and just knowing that give me a strength i think i was lacking before and a confidense that i am fairly certain that she actually find attractive in me lol so perhaps the new more confident me is waht SHE wanted.. i don't know and i don't think i care at this point to be honest... i am done trying to be what she wants me to be i am going to be waht i want to be and take care of my family (praying the hole time that she wants to be a part of it) and show her love and respect and no expectations...

any feed back, good or bad is appreciated. i will be back on before 5 to check and see what if any thing you all have to say.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm glad the weekend went well. I do think small positive steps on her part are a good sign.

Confidence is attractive and even moreso that you are doing it for yourself. She may sense that you have had it and it's up to her how she will respond from here but so far sounds like she's stepping up, even if only a little.

I am glad you seem to have a stronger sense of yourself and what you need to do regardless...you've been through the ringer and deserve to know that you will be fine no matter what she ends up doing.

I hope the rest of your week goes well!


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