# I am really hurting, need some direction



## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Hi All,

I am new here and wanted to share my situation and get some feedback.

I have been married for 6 years now and was with my wife for about 8 years before that. Been a while.

5 years ago we met a family who we became close friends with. They were great and the husband and I became close buddies. There was an incident approx 18 months later where the wife accused my wife of trying to flirt with her husband. My wife told me it was a mistake as they were drunk.

Its now been 5 years and my marriage has been broken since, that's what I feel. I have tried to ask my wife several times what is happening and why we do not have a connection anymore, she has no answer and gets very defensive. 

We now have a beautiful daughter, long story how that happened. 

I have always had a niggling feeling something is not right and somehow she always manages to dismiss what I say. Her communication skills are far superior to mine and I get intimidated when she is defensive, I just end up stepping back.

I recently found evidence depicting she has been having an affair with the husband from 5 years ago, who was supposed to be my friend. The evidence I discovered, is both emotional and sexual in nature and I feel soooo broken, I just dont know what to do.

I really love my wife, which is why I have stuck beside her for this long (( I made a promise of my wedding day which I intend to live by.

I am afraid to confront her as she is still getting over the loss of her parents. She is unstable and I am afraid to push her over the edge.

The hurt of betrayal is so deep ... I just feel like running away, but I have my lovely daughter who needs both mom n dad.

((

Justcomplicated.


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

You sure she's YOUR daughter???

If i were you, I'd be pissed as hell for the deception as well as the affair.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

why are you protecting her? She hasn't protected her family has she? Part of the problem when you put someone up on a pedestal like you've done with your wife is that you create a little monster. Well how do you like your creation?

make sure that your evidence is solid and that you have copies of it put in several different places. Then exposed her to her family your family exposed the other man. 

if your wife is in any mental health danger then get her in to see someone. 

can you see that lying to you and cheating is part of her mental downfall? By holding her to a moral standard you are going to be helping her and help your family.

if you are a wussy about this then you will lose everything. 

there's a time in life to stand up and be a man. This is that time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

I am very upset and disappointed. Im sure she is my daughter, no way to prove it, just a bond... I am aspiring to her coming up to me at some point, admitting to the problem, and asking for help. 

I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


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## brendanoco (Aug 6, 2014)

how old is your daughter?


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## brendanoco (Aug 6, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> I am very upset and disappointed. Im sure she is my daughter, *no way to prove it*, just a bond... I am aspiring to her coming up to me at some point, admitting to the problem, and asking for help.
> 
> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


yeah there is DNA test


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks clipclop, I understand what you are saying, there was a point I got to where I was going to confront both of them together, show the evidence, and tell them both to f off 

I know have my daughter to think about which is why I am just holding back.

I am very inclined to confront her, just afraid of the outcome. 

I definitely take your comment onboard, thank you


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

2, brendanoco


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

what evidence do you have? Is it solid?

if not do not confront yet.

Is the affair still going on?


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## brendanoco (Aug 6, 2014)

are ye still friends with that couple?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

justcomplicated said:


> I am very upset and disappointed. Im sure she is my daughter, no way to prove it, just a bond... I am aspiring to her coming up to me at some point, admitting to the problem, and asking for help.
> 
> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


Don't feel ashamed as it is not your shortcoming and character that caused her to stray, that is completely hers to own. As for no way to prove, there is and it is called a DNA test.

Seek out counseling if you need someone to talk to about this that will maintain confidentiality and have your best interest at heart (and you can talk to you Dr as well if medication will temporarily help your situation and you to deal with it).

I would gather evidence and contact a lawyer to secure yourself against her should she become vengeful.

If she has issues then she needs to seek medical assistance and you should not have to shoulder all the burden or feel that you are responsible if she acts rashly. 

Good luck and I am sorry you are experiencing this. Stay strong for you and your daughter. If it is your WW's decision to not continue the marriage, nothing you can do will change this and it is not your fault.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

First make sure an independent third party would assess the evidence the same way you do. If she indeed has the hots for this other guy, rest assured there a big imbalance in the love you have for each other and you have little to lose by confronting her.
The fact that you've purportedly "do not have a connection anymore" give credence that her romantic interest in you is down. 
(usually that means your sex life is on the skids)
Honestly, its disturbing that you get intimidated by her. That indicative of beta tendencies. Would Bill Gates be intimidated by his wife?


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

First thing, secure your evidence of her affair. Brace yourself, you are about to take a heck of a ride. Many of us have been there and done that, so you are about to get some good advise to help you through this. 

Please know that what we tell you might be counter intuitive, but affairs have a script and what you and your wife do is predictable. TAM is the closest thing to a crystal ball that you will get. Take advantage of our insight and experience.

Right now your emotions are playing havoc with your thinking ability and confusion rules the day. Breath deep, take care of your health, see a doctor about some temporary anti anxiety medication. 

You must, MUST, wrap your heart and mind around the new reality that your wife is not your ally any more. In fact, she has formed a new alliance with the other guy to destroy you and your children. Therefore, you must treat her as a deadly adversary. 

It's time to Lawyer up. Do it now. And for heavens sake, do NOT tell your wife anything of how you plan to deal with her. 

Your gut has been telling you all along that something was off. We have learned that you should trust your gut, not your altruistic emotions. From here on out you need to be cerebral, cold and cunning in how you deal with wife. Again, you've got to truly understand she is your adversary, not the woman you loved. Good luck.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks squeakr, evidence is solid albeit dated, chat history which had references to emotional as well as physical attachment. For now I am staying put.

Yes she is still having the affair, a few months ago she came home drunk, phone was unlocked and I saw a chat window with the same guy, exchange of photos etc 

Very disturbing, just proved they are still on.

I totally see what you are saying, thank you for your feedback


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

No Brendanoco, not friends since the last incident, I was really good friends with the wife, she was really nice, was disappointed to see it all go astray


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

justcomplicated said:


> I am very upset and disappointed. Im sure *she is my daughter, no way to prove it,* just a bond... I am aspiring to her coming up to me at some point, admitting to the problem, and asking for help.
> 
> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


Of course you can prove she's your daughter. You can buy DNA kits at Walmart for $100. That's exactly what you should do.

Let me prepare you for something friend. You're not going to like the advice you receive here - at first. But if you will heed it, you'll have the best chance to save your marriage.

You come off as a complete beta male; a door mat. If you have solid evidence that she had a sexual affair with your friend; your mind set should be you are heading straight to divorce - and will keep heading in that direction unless and until your wife comes cleans, owns what she did, accepts consequences, demonstrates unconditional remorse, and is absolutely desperate to save her marriage.

She has to know what if feels like to lose her husband for cheating on him and you have to be willing to end your marriage to have the best chance of saving it.

Talk to an attorney to start the divorce process. Get your finances separated. Expose the A to her family, your family, and his wife. Then confront her.

After that, implement the 180 to detach from her and see how she reacts. Anything short of complete remorse is *unacceptable.*

Time to stop being nice.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thank you commonsenseisnt, great feedback, I will look into getting some help


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What is your evidence and how did you get it?

The odds are, your wife is just a piece to him. How long has this been going on?

If you have rock solid evidence, the first thing you need to do is break up the affair. You do this by calling and personally telling his wife. Men rarely want to break up their family for a woman that cheats on her husband.

Then wait for your wife to call you. She will probably be extremely pi$$ed and blame you for everything. She ill say she was going to stay with you but not now. She will say you broke up their family. All this bull is just part of the cheaters common script.

Also, immediately put the OM on cheaterville.com.

If you try to nice your way out of this, all is lost. Look at the thousands of threads here. The only way to save your family is to jump on this with every weapon you can muster.

Call his wife, your wife's parents, her brothers and sisters and your family and tell them whats going on and you need their help to save your family.

Affairs love the darkness, shine light on them and most fail quickly. They scurry like roaches.

Good luck and stay strong.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So sorry for your pain.

1. Is the affair in the past, or is it still ongoing?

2. Can you explain the type of evidence you have, letters, email, text, FB? More information on this could aid other posters in suggesting what else you may/should need to discover.

3. Go to an MD, NOW. Ask to be put on anti-depressants and ask for an STD test. Sounds dreadful, I know, but you need both-regardless of what you do, or don't do. You have to take care of yourself.

4. The advice about seeing an attorney is not an assumption of divorce, but another tool for you to use. Discover your rights and your liabilities, this is all part of the evidence gathering process.

5. I would suggest you not make a decision (reconcile or divorce) now, the pain is still to fresh. You have to allow yourself time to process everything.

6. No matter what, and this is the most important-nothing, absolutely nothing you did or didn't do, said or didn't say justifies her infidelity. This is 100% on her, it was her choice. So how and when you heal is completely up to you.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

well if the affair is still going on tell the OM wife ASAP.

Do this if you want to D or R


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## brendanoco (Aug 6, 2014)

yeah i would dna test your kid ASAP


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

justcomplicated said:


> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


Would you still ? Is that something you take pride in ?

Then divorce her and make her a better person.


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## brendanoco (Aug 6, 2014)

what has your sex life been like for the last 5 years?

what was your sex life like when your daughter was conceived?

Was she planned?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new here and wanted to share my situation and get some feedback.
> 
> ...


Uhhhhh...

DNA your kid.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thanks Pluto, 

1. Strongly believe it is still going on
2. Evidence is CSV files of bbm messages between them depicting minute by minute conversation, then the conversation gets physical with reference to their encounters the previous day
3. I will go to an MD 
4. Will talk to legal for some advice
5. Not making any decisions, I definitely not of a straight mind to make any
6. Thank you, I always felt I drive her off the rails, it is good to hear this

Thank you very much


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

7. tell the OM's (other Man's) wife
8. DNA test
9. back up evidence in at least 2 places one off site.
10. get ready to expose to family and friends. (putting the spot light on the affair helps kill it)

other posters will add more


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her


Sometimes a line needs to drawn. This is one of those times.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> First make sure an independent third party would assess the evidence the same way you do. If she indeed has the hots for this other guy, rest assured there a big imbalance in the love you have for each other and you have little to lose by confronting her.
> The fact that you've purportedly "do not have a connection anymore" give credence that her romantic interest in you is down.
> (usually that means your sex life is on the skids)
> Honestly, its disturbing that you get intimidated by her. That indicative of beta tendencies. *Would Bill Gates be intimidated by his wife?*


:iagree: with most except the bolded.

Not a good example as we have no idea how he would behave in a relationship setting. We can't exactly equate wealth and success in the business world due to type A behavior. Several people in technology are not type A personalities, but have the ingenuity to develop the widgets that drive growth and obtain success that way and in fact their behavior in interpersonal settings and relationships is mediocre at best and exhibit lots of beta traits.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"Its now been 5 years and my marriage has been *broken since,* that's what I feel. I have tried to ask my wife several times what is happening and why we do not have a connection anymore, she has no answer and* gets very defensive*."

"I have always had a *niggling feeling something* is not right and somehow she *always manages to dismiss* what I say. Her c*ommunication skills are far superior to mine* and I get intimidated when she is defensive, I just end up stepping back."

"I feel* soooo broken,* I just dont know what to do."

"I really love my wife, which is why I have stuck beside her for this long (( I made a promise of my wedding day* which I intend to live by."*

"I am *afraid to confront her* as she is still getting over the loss of her parents. She is unstable and I am afraid to push her over the edge."

"The hurt of *betrayal is so deep* ... I just feel like *running away*, but I have my lovely daughter who needs both mom n dad."

These are all RED FLAGS to me about your behavior. You don't seem to have a grasp of what is expected of you and therefore your spouse will use that to your disadvantage. You have to fix yourself first.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

justcomplicated said:


> Not making any decisions, I definitely not of a straight mind to make any


There is only one decision you need to make right now. *If* she doesn't stop contact with the OM and *if* she doesn't demonstrate total remorse - you will divorce her.

Whether or not you ultimately decide to reconcile is the decision that you can take your time with.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> Thanks Pluto,
> 
> 1. Strongly believe it is still going on
> 2. Evidence is CSV files of bbm messages between them depicting minute by minute conversation, then the conversation gets physical with reference to their encounters the previous day
> ...


Plan your work and work your plan. Be mindful your W currently is not who you thought she is/was.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

justcomplicated said:


> I know have my daughter to think about which is why I am just holding back.
> 
> I am very inclined to confront her, just afraid of the outcome.


All this and a nice guy to that would do anything for her. 

Dawg you sound like a real chump. I'm beginning to understand why your old lady thinks she can jerk you around and has little, if any respect for you. Accidentally left her phone unlocked my azz. She just didn't give a damn if you saw it. 
Thinking about your daughter that's holding you back? Give us a break. You're thinking about the position you're going to be in if she uses those "superior" communication skills and tells you that she doesn't care if you found out, just doesn't feel the same about you and you need to consider splitting up. (While you're standing there with your hat in your hand)


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Tell the wife of OM today right now she might help you

telling the Om's wife could help in several ways.
It helps expose the affair
it could give you much needed support from her
It could help stop the affair
It gives another set of eyes and ears to watch what is going on
it does NOT mean you could break up another family the Om and your wife are to blame for that


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

brendanoco said:


> yeah i would dna test your kid ASAP


I have a different view on this point than many others. I acknowledge it is the minority view on TAM. 
Don't DNA.
The only reason to get the DNA is to avoid child support payments and he is nowhere close to considering that yet. And in many jurisdictions he might not be able to avoid child support. Look up "paternity by estoppel"

This guy is the only father the D has known and he clearly loves her. If you want to continue being her father don't DNA. Should the results come back that the OM is the biological father then he might get rights to visitation, and destroy your parental bond. 
Just my thoughts on this.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I have a different view on this point than many others. I acknowledge it is the minority view on TAM.
> Don't DNA.
> The only reason to get the DNA is to avoid child support payments and he is nowhere close to considering that yet. And in many jurisdictions he might not be able to avoid child support. Look up "paternity by estoppel"
> 
> ...


I somewhat agree with this point. Avoiding child support is not the only reason to get a DNA test. Piece of mind can be one, and another would be wanting to know in case something medical ever arises, it would be nice to know the "try" medical history of your child (as if it is not his DNA, then the history changes for the paternal background).

He can still be a dad to the daughter and not the bio father. He has been there and raised the child and they will know this and nothing can change that fact.

Also you would only know if you were or were not the father. This doesn't immediately mean that the ex-friend is the father, as we never know how deep the well runs until we start for bottom (she could have been with many OMs throughout the marriage, worst case scenario). Unless you have a DNA test done for the ex-friend you would never know for sure.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I have a different view on this point than many others. I acknowledge it is the minority view on TAM.
> Don't DNA.
> The only reason to get the DNA is to avoid child support payments and he is nowhere close to considering that yet. And in many jurisdictions he might not be able to avoid child support. Look up "paternity by estoppel"
> 
> ...


very good point to consider
I like doing the DNA test to show the WW that you can not be sure to trust anything from the whole marriage, but yes very important point to consider


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> I am very upset and disappointed. Im sure she is my daughter, no way to prove it, just a bond... I am aspiring to her coming up to me at some point, admitting to the problem, and asking for help.
> 
> I am a nice guy, I guess she has abused that, but I would do anything for her



There is a way to prove it, it's called a DNA test


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Avoiding child support is not the only reason to get a DNA test. Piece of mind can be one, and another would be wanting to know in case something medical ever arises, it would be nice to know the "try" medical history of your child (as if it is not his DNA, then the history changes for the paternal background).


I would suggest there is one other reason. Additional evidence of *CHEATING*.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> Thanks Pluto,
> 
> 1. Strongly believe it is still going on
> 2. Evidence is CSV files of bbm messages between them depicting minute by minute conversation, then the conversation gets physical with reference to their encounters the previous day
> ...


make backup copies of evidence and keep in mind that you may never have a clear mind so if 'having a clear mind' is required to take action, you may never take action. You need to act now and stop rugsweeping. You've had along time to do this and I have little confidence that you will act decisively


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

badmemory said:


> There is only one decision you need to make right now. *If* she doesn't stop contact with the OM and *if* she doesn't demonstrate total remorse - you will divorce her.
> 
> Whether or not you ultimately decide to reconcile is the decision that you can take your time with.


:iagree:

Yep, if you sweep this under the rug and ignore the implications of her actions, there is nothing anyone on this forum or any others can do to help you along your journey through infidelity. The only chance for you to continue maintaining your marital committment to her, is if she chooses to do the same - marriage is a mutual agreement that can only work when both spouses are devoted to the same principles.

You have known for several months now, and have enough time to process what you need to do. And since this affair is still ongoing, you have a clear #1 objective before you can get anywhere with this, and that is to destroy the affair and get your W back into reality - that means gathering hard evidence and exploding her world by showing that evidence to everyone whom it makes a difference, her family, friends, coworkers, employer, and on and on. She has to face the consequence of her betrayal.

Put any thoughts of saving the marriage aside, that is not a useful thought to hold onto until the dust settles.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone, this has really been good and insightful.

Next steps for me are to discreetly get a paternity test and talk to legal. 

I will keep this that updated as I progress.

Great support network here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, my advice:
1) download evidence of the phone stuff; make copies; store a copy away from home; gather phone numbers for all of your wife's important people (siblings, best friend, pastor, etc. - anyone whose respect she craves); visit your lawyer to see what your rights are regarding custody, child support, etc.; buy a recorder that you keep in your pocket at all times

2) ask OM's W to meet you for coffee; share the evidence with her; come up with an agreed-upon time to confront

3) arrange for your daughter to be away at a friend's or family

4) using your recorder (and keep it recording any time you meet with her hereafter), confront your wife at the same time OMW is confronting him (leaving no time to 'get their stories straight')

5) depending on her reaction (regret or defiance), either (regret) set down rules for reconciliation or (defiance) expose to her siblings, pastor, best friend; expose to these people all within an hour or two, so she will not have time to figure out what you're doing and call them first to tell them 'look out, my crazy abusive husband is trying to ruin me' (we believe who we hear from first)

6) while you're waiting for the sh*tstorm of anger to hit once she realizes you exposed (that's good, you WANT her to be angry), tighten up access to bank accounts and any other avenue she has to run the bills up on you and move out leaving you with all the bills (it happens sometimes; better be safe than sorry)

7) if she rails at you for 'ruining her life' (we can give you all the other things she's going to hit you with; there's a script all cheaters use), just shrug and say 'are you done?'; wait for her to run out of steam as she scrambles to regain control and then realizes she can't; eventually, she'll have to make a decision

8) based on her decision (punish you by moving out or see what it takes to stay married), you can move forward with one goal - retaining your dignity and preserving your daughter's well-being; since you've already been to the lawyer, you'll know what she has the right to demand from you if she goes the punishment route

That's the gist of what works best. We've seen it all; most fall into this group. It keeps you in control, it keeps you from begging, it shows her she can't demand anything and she now has to reassess her cushy little life and make some hard decisions. Don't be mean, but don't be sappy, either. Keep emotion out of it; this is war; you can comfort her later, if she relents.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Thank you very much, that's a great summary, will definitely use those guidelines.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

JC, lets be honest here.. 

You can do all of that stuff that people mentioned, 

BUT

If you don't actually have the courage to act on it, then what is the point ?

You clearly said you're afraid of what can happen if you confront her. 

Sadly what everyone is going to tell you here. The ONLY, ONLY, ONLY way to save your marriage is to have the courage and balls to give it up.. Sadly the following sayings are very true when it comes to affairs and marriage.. 

1. You always want what you can't have..
2. If you love someone you have let them go and if they love you, they will come back..

Doesn't seem her parents passing hasn't prevented her from fvcking this other man.. 

Look I've been in your shoes, so I know.. 

What I can tell you is once you're ready to attack. You have to attack hard and swift.. You need to tell everyone ASAP. You need to have her world crumbling down around her and she needs to see you don't give a fvck that it is happening.. 

She will tell you that you ruined 2 families lives.. You will need to remind her that she did, fvcking that man.. 

You need to make sure that this other man has enough of his own problems that he can't be bothering with your wife.. You need to make sure his wife will have her under her thumb. Which seems so, since she accused your wife of flirting.. So at least you know she will not mess around with this nonsense as well. 

But you my friend will have to eventually grow a backbone to do all this stuff. 

And finally remember, I have NEVER, EVER, NEVER seen a single person here nice there way back into a relationship with their spouses.. Not one person was successful in sweet talking their way back into their spouses arms.. 

As crazy as this all sounds, you have to be the opposite. A hard a$$ tough guy who is ready and willing to toss his wife out the door at a moments notice.. 

Its true, women deep down like the bad boys and deep down the guys like the girls that do anything.. Even if they tell you they don't.. 

The nicer you are the more nastier you wife will become and the more she will resent you..

I tried this all and failed.. I was able to recover to save myself in my divorce.. But I failed at saving my marriage. Hindsight being 20/20 I will say it was the best thing for me.. 

Just remember, your daughter wasn't there when they were out drinking and fvcking.. Your daughter never came into their minds once during all of this.. 

Please don't use her as the excuse.. We have heard the lines I am doing this for my kids and I am keeping my wedding vows ad nauseum here. 

I have 2 boys and can tell you kids are resilient.. One boy hasn't seen his mother in over a year and I am practically being told he is a genius in school. He literally has been getting better grades every quarter that his mother is gone. 

Again I am very sorry this is happening to you.. Its very hard, trust me I know.. I've been to the point of seriously considering suicide.. You can't get darker than that.. Well beyond doing it I guess.. 

But it gets better, even when other people tell you this, you just don't see it.. NOW... 

But eventually you do.. You just have to be alive that long to see it get better. 

I can tell you there are women like us out in the world just waiting for someone like one of us to come along and understand the pain they went through and to be with.. 

Keep posting and get stronger somehow because you will need it..


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

OK, you are getting some good advise here and I hope you listen to it. These guys are right. 

Your wife is absolutely the sole person for you to blame for all this. The other guy is just a distraction. You can't change the other guy and it would be folly to entertain such foolishness, though bad consequences for him is a worthy endeavor. 

Likewise, you can't do that much to change your wife and you should not waste your time doing so except for engaging her as an enemy. This means raining pure hell upon her in the form of consequences. Some guys are naturally good at this, others like you, are what we call beta and are not natural tough guys.

This is what I want to address with you. The single largest obstacle I see in your situation is toughening you up so that you can outdo your wife in the alpha department. This does not come easily or quickly, so get ready to change your mindset if you want to get through this intact.

You said your wife can outdo you in the communication arena. Fine, when you communicate with her don't engage her in verbal jousting. Doing so would be giving her the advantage. Instead, let actions do your speaking. Actions have a way of being more alpha than words anyway. 

A good example of using actions instead of words would be to not tell your wife you want a divorce or make demands upon her. Instead, you, being an alpha man of action would simply have your wife served divorce papers in the most unanticipated way possible. 

The goal is to totally blindside her and get her off balance by causing her to think she misjudged you all along. If done correctly it will plant the seeds of uncertainty and will rock her confidence. It also serves her notice that you are not a man to be trifled with. A mindset like this is what is needed to swing the balance of power to your favor. 

To take it to the next level you should go as dark on her as possible. Don't let yourself talk to her about anything but the kids. Don't listen to her. Tell her to tell it to a lawyer who will relay it to you. Do not let her use her superior verbal skills to manipulate you. Show her that the only thing you are interested in besides the kids, is to obtain a fast and hard divorce. 

If you later (unwisely) decide to reconcile you can always call off the divorce, but for now it will serve your needs best to ram a divorce down her throat in the most swift and ruthless manner you can. I'm sure this offends your beta sensibilities, but brother, it's exactly what you need. 

Also, realize that you need to alpha up, not only for your immediate sake, but also for future success with another woman. You can do it. Many of us here have had to do exactly this and we can coach you. Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

commonsenseisn't said:


> The single largest obstacle I see in your situation is toughening you up so that you can outdo your wife in the alpha department.
> 
> don't engage her in verbal jousting. Doing so would be giving her the advantage. Instead, let actions do your speaking. Actions have a way of being more alpha than words anyway.
> 
> ...


Worth repeating and re-reading. The WORST thing you can do is try to do this - and then back down and beg her forgiveness when she pulls out all the tears or screams obscenities at you. Or plays the my dead parents card.

HER choice to cheat FOR 5 YEARS. Your choice to divorce her cheating ass unless she gets this right. She NEEDS you to get this right, if she is to have any hope of coming out of this with any integrity left.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

By the way, you've demonstrated perfectly effective communication with your posts so far. Yes words are different spoken than written, but my point is that your W isn't a better communicator at all, just a better manipulator.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. We of course logon to read these stories but they are always sad and unfortunately familiar. 

Somewhere here, I have a thread about whether or not to tell the affair partner's wife about their spouse's affair. 

My friend is in a six year affair with a couple whom began as close friends. My friend is terrified of losing all friends (and would without question) if the affair is exposed. 

Yes, most of the above advice is spot-on and quickly done. 
Tell this guy's wife ASAP. Yesterday if possible. Don't give up any of YOUR sources, just tell her you know without a doubt and you need to protect your sources for divorce or custody issues if necessary. 

Tell her to start her own investigation if she doesn't believe you. She probably already has suspicions of her own. 

Make an appointment with an attorney and file for divorce. Do this quickly too. You can change your mind later but considering the length of the affair, you might want to continue with divorce. 

I'm a product of divorce and I watched my own father stand up for his principles and set an example of what he would not tolerate while remaining a stable parent and protecting myself and siblings. 

Kids don't like unhappy households and your daughter will one day gain strenght from the courage you will display now. 

My siblings and I are educated adults today and we were all happy when my parents were happy. 

Yes, you made a commitment in your vows, but so did your wife. Her betrayal is unconscionable and I see no reason to remain devoted to someone who spit in the face of your vows together. But that is a decision to be made by you or your wife. 

Take your time with some of the other things in life. You may not be sleeping well or eating well so eat small nutritious things like fruit or a yogurt. See your doctor if you need a sleeping aid or an STD test.

I had to tell my doctor and although it was humiliating, he understood and said I was doing the sensible thing. 

Best of luck in these trying days for your family. 

Stay strong and it will get better.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The good news, if there is any, is that it doesn't look like one of them,.probably him, doesn't love the other. If they did they would have divorced so they could be together.

I say him because men usually have affairs for side action added to the way your wife treats you.

My advice is to blow this up and do not immediately go see a lawyer. Seeing lawyers first usually makes divorce certain and lengthens the whole process. At least that's what I have seen here over and over.

If you want a divorce though, just go see the best junk yard lawyer you can and have her served.

Also, check out father friendly dadsdivorce.com.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Ask anyone here who knows me. I am a strong believer in vows; However, when she chose to lie with another man those vows were broken. You are no longer obligated to remain with her unless you want to. It is totally up to you, and I won't judge you either way. Not that it matters.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

justcomplicated said:


> Next steps for me are to discreetly get a paternity test and talk to legal.


You can buy a DNA kit at WalMart, Amazon or about any drug store for $30. You swab a Q-tip on the inside of your cheek and the kids. You send the kit to a lab with $130 more.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

No offense as i feel for you but grow a back bone. You are now reaping the outcome for years of inaction on your behalf regarding her disrespectful and foul behavour.

You have sat back and allowed this affair to flourish hiding under the pretense that you dont want to break up your family.

Newsflash, your wife is doing that all on her own.

If you truly want to reconcile, you need to do a complete 180 on her. I mean go nuclear. You cannot nice your way out of this, cause if you confront, and have a bit of a sissy fit, she will promise to never do it again, but will only take the affair deeper underground.

1) Gather all the evidence you have.
2) Buy a partenity test and have your daughter tested.
3) Seek legal advice on how a Divorce will shake out for you
4) Make a plan based around that advice
5) Withdrawl all money from any joint accounts, and place it into your own personal account and cancell her access to any of your credit, debit cards.
6) Show the other mans wife the evidence
7) Confront your wife, if she hasn't confronted you already as you can bet the Other Man will call her once his wife is done yelling at him.
8) File for Divorce and let it be known that her crap wont be tolerated, and you are contesting for at least shared custody.
9) Do not under any circumstances support her financially, you are just paying for her affair. Any hardship she may encounter is the consequence for her actions.

If you really want to save your marriage only by taking a tough stance will you might have a chance. 

There is no nicing your way out of this, cause even if she does come back she will figure that she can do it again as she suffered no consequences to begin with.


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## Sola (Aug 28, 2014)

justcomplicated said:


> No Brendanoco, not friends since the last incident, I was really good friends with the wife, she was really nice, was disappointed to see it all go astray


It is very difficult to give advice on these matters. I was in your situation not that long ago. I can only tell you what I did and what helped me along the way. I was able to download a program to retrieved all deleted files from my husband's cell. There are many programs out there. I did save all the information and consulted a lawyer to get just an educated view as to my situation. I also consulted a therapist that helped me and guided me along the way. That was probably the most important thing I did for my self. 

Sorry for your pain


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

justcomplicated said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am new here and wanted to share my situation and get some feedback.
> 
> ...


no matter what??


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

your not gonna nice guy your way outa this...tell the om's wife...
I personally wouldnt bother with dna test...you ARE her dad, doesnt matter who the father/sperm donor is...imo

Im not sure how contracts work Down Under, but here in USA, if ONE party does NOT honor the agreement, the contract is null and void...no matter what you promised her to death do you part, she has broken her promises, shat all over them, and wiped her bum with them, that contract is NULL and VOID...you owe her nothing

show the proof to the om's wife
expose to ALL your friends and family...kill her support team and ability to spin it her way...possibly kill the affair as he wont want easy nookie if it aint easy any more
Do the 180 and file for d...have her served and tell her to move the fugg out

only then can she begin to try and win you back...if she doesnt want you and as I fear you are simply her financial support, she wont try hard enough to get over the obstacles...then u follow through with D and find someone better

she has lied decieved manipulated and tricked you...for 5 frickin years
you can NOT believe ONE thing she TELLS you...if you do you are a fool
You can only believe her ACTIONS...her word means nothing now she is a liar...and a cheater


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> no matter what??


 *"I made a promise of my wedding day which I intend to live by."*

Somebody need to explain to old Justy that martyrs never make the list of the ten sexiest men. Either that or print him a tee shirt that reads, "kick my azz baby, I'll still love you".


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sigh...
Do the DNA test and let his wife know and please find your noots and show your daughter how a real man acts.
Your daughter needs a strong father.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Sigh...
> Do the DNA test and let his wife know and please find your noots and show your daughter how a real man acts.
> Your daughter needs a strong father.


I don't know the law in all states, but in NYC if you acknowledge the child as your own for 1 day, it is yours forever.. I know this because my brother did this twice and I paid 15k in child support for him on the 2nd time around.. 

So I agree with missthelove, it serves you no real purpose at this point.. You still want to love your wife through everything she is doing to you. I am positive you would not love this girl any less if you found it she wasn't your own.. For someone like yourself it wouldn't do anything beneficial for you honestly. 

Just stick with the affair issues and how you are going to address it and resolve it.. For now at least.. This girl isn't going anywhere so you can address this possible issue at any time.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> For someone like yourself it wouldn't do anything beneficial for you honestly.
> 
> Just stick with the affair issues and how you are going to address it and resolve it.. For now at least.. This girl isn't going anywhere so you can address this possible issue at any time.


Disagre as this IS an affair issue. No affair, no paternity doubt. You are looking at it from one direction only. Just like blind trust, once broken, unquestioned paternity can never be completely regained. That seed of doubt will exist FOREVER, no matter how much he loves his daughter. There are plenty of threads where the kid turns out to be the spouse's and every single one has the guy saying "phew, a huge WEIGHT has been lifted of my shoulders." This is one issue that can be rectified much quicker than starting reconciliation or divorce.


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## DaisyNewYork (Sep 3, 2014)

Gotta belief you ain't gonna love your daughter and less if she ain't yours but if you feel you gotta know then find out the biological answer. Reality is you the girls daddy and always will be, just remember that an good luck you get what you need in this to be moving on with or without partner


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> I don't know the law in all states, but in NYC if you acknowledge the child as your own for 1 day, it is yours forever.. I know this because my brother did this twice and I paid 15k in child support for him on the 2nd time around..
> 
> So I agree with missthelove, it serves you no real purpose at this point.. You still want to love your wife through everything she is doing to you. I am positive you would not love this girl any less if you found it she wasn't your own.. For someone like yourself it wouldn't do anything beneficial for you honestly.
> 
> Just stick with the affair issues and how you are going to address it and resolve it.. For now at least.. This girl isn't going anywhere so you can address this possible issue at any time.


I don't agree, as this is something that will eat at the BS for years until the truth is proven.
Although, I would do it on the sly, if you are attempting to gain custody, as I was instructed that it could be seen as reluctance to parent and possibly used to hurt in a vicious custody battle.

Things might have changed but what I researched about NY, showed to the opposite. If married it is presumed to be the spouses, but it can be challenged, although the time frame is short, 60 days to file this paperwork, and all things should be done within the 1st year, unless the signature was related to something like, duress, and other factors (I would imagine a good lawyer would be able to possibly challenge the validity of the law but it would cost).


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

OP's profile says he's from Australia. US laws likely have no relevance.


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## justcomplicated (Sep 23, 2014)

Hi all, seeing all the responses, I am now inclined towards a more assertive approach to resolving this. Thanks for all your blunt responses, looks like it is what I needed to start looking at this practically. Definitely gathering strength here.

Thank you all


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

1. Collect hard evidence and most recent evidence.
2. Stabalize your finances so she cant ruin you.
3. Contact the 10 best lawyers in your area. Just a quick reach out...that way she cant use them.
4. Tell OMW. Give evidence.
5. Wait patiently.

Plutonium? Meet Uranium! 

Put on your RAD suit and wait for the Fallout.

Its the surest way to make a lasting impression and shake her loose from the behavior.

Good Luck.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

justcomplicated said:


> Hi all, seeing all the responses, I am now inclined towards a more assertive approach to resolving this. Thanks for all your blunt responses, looks like it is what I needed to start looking at this practically. Definitely gathering strength here.
> 
> Thank you all



So glad you're taking in our advice. It can sound harsh and most betrayed spouses don't want to hear these things so they leave the forums here. 

People who stay and read through the threads here and take the reasonable approach that suits their situation the best, do pretty well and end up in a better place more quickly. 

It doesn't mean it's easy. It's terrible, terrible, head spinning, life altering stuff and it is too bad any of us are here. 

You are in pretty good hands though. Some find this forum way too late.


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