# Kids and divorce



## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

For those who went through a divorce with young kids - what am I to expect?

Our kid will be 4 in a few months, and while I haven't filed yet, I have given my WH until January 1st to come completely clean about his affairs (DDay was a year ago. He says EAs only, but the circumstantial evidence suggest otherwise. I have no proof of actual sexual activity, but looking at what I DO have, I cannot believe that these long-term EAs with women he worked with only stayed there. Too much opportunity.)

He is still sticking to his story, so it looks like January 2nd, I will be at the courthouse filing my papers.

My only heartache now is our child. We have been able to keep things very much amicable. As far as I can tell, all affair activity has stopped. He has also given up drinking (this is HUGE as he was the kind of alcoholic who could rack up a $200-$300 bar tab in one night), so he has made some steps toward improvement.

Even though, the nagging feeling that there is more will not leave. Hence the ultimatum. 

So.... how do I deal with the effects on our child (who has not been mistreated by my WH, even in the days if alcoholism)? Children love their parents, and ours is no different. It just guts me to have to try to explain to a 4 year old why Daddy doesn't come home anymore.

I'm just so torn!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I am really sorry you are going through this. Its good you are at least giving yourself a timeline and researching what to expect. 

I went through this in 2007. I do have custody of my kids. 

The thing that is most important is keeping the kid free from any of this turmoil as much as possible. If you feel alcohol is going to play a roll then you have the right to make visitations supervised. 

Things I would do is make a visitation schedule. I know this will be hard but try to be reasonable. It is so much better if you have everything all written out. 

The things your going to tell your child is really everything and sets the tone for how things will go in the future. Never talk down about your child's father. Give your child reinsurance that daddy does love them. This does not mean you have to buy gifts and put his name on them at birthdays. Let your child discover daddy with their own eyes. 

I know this will be hard. It sure does kill me at times. My xW did cheat on me throughout our marriage and went straight to the OM once I threw her out and filed for D. 

Have you considered asking for a Poly to help sort out the facts of his EA?

Clay


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## hopeful101 (Nov 6, 2013)

I (so far, although probably soon will go through it as an adult) haven't gone through it as an adult. I have as a child. I was 9 and remember everything, knew a lot at the time. My sister was 3. She doesn't remember anything about the divorce or much about my parents being together.

Our issues were later with the step family situation. My dad was great. He did not talk bad about my mom in front of us. NOW as adults will, but did not as children. My mom didn't either, but our step father was horrid. Not only was he nasty about my dad, but was extremely verbally abusive and we were never protected. 

My advice would be to do the best you can to coparent politely and respectfully. I would have appreciated my parents being able to do things like birthdays and holidays together once in awhile. That might be unrealistic, but I was always envious of friends whose parents could do that.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Have you considered asking for a Poly to help sort out the facts of his EA?
> 
> Clay


I have, but am torn about that too. Far too much contradicting information about their accuracy (I have frequently posted in the CWI forum and read the stories of those who have done it). Plus there are ways to "beat" the test, so will I really have the truth? 

I have brought it up with him, and his responses vary depending on the day. He says that even if he beats it, I will just accuse him of learning to do so (probably will). Then on other days he says ok, but when I did some research and found someone that seemed to have excellent credentials (ex-FBI, 30 years experience, etc.), I told my WH. He asked where/when and I told him that I would rather keep that to myself until the day of because I did not want to give him time to find a way cheat the test. His response - "I never said I'd do it".

The OWs I know of deny anything physical happened - OW1 denies even the EA, despite the phone records and emails I have seen. Everyone just denies, denies, denies. Even though I have naked pics of OW2, she denies it was ever physical. 
I guess sending naked pics of yourself to people "just because" is the thing to do these days.

I'm not so much concerned about the future, because now I am in the driver's seat, but I cannot reconcile what I know about the past with the story he has given, and we can't really discuss it without it blowing up into a fight. That being the case, even if I wanted to R (and I have tried for the past 12 months), if I can't bring stuff up without World War III, I don't see how we can move forward. I think, all things considered, we have done a good job, but I know that our child knows something is wrong. I stopped going to church with them, I seldom leave the house. For weeks I just stayed in bed depressed, and the poor thing just thought mommy was "sick".

I just don't want to make a decision that ruins my child's life. Daddy already did that. "Thankfully" the years of cheating happened during the baby/toddler stage, so I'm pretty sure there is no memory on our child's part. But now?

I just wish I was emotionally strong enough to stay but separate - but then, do I want my child to grow up thinking that parents don't share a bed, don't say "I love you", act more like roommates and friends than lovers and spouses?

It just pains me that the damage is done and I don't know how to fix it.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

hopeful101 said:


> My advice would be to do the best you can to coparent politely and respectfully. I would have appreciated my parents being able to do things like birthdays and holidays together once in awhile. That might be unrealistic, but I was always envious of friends whose parents could do that.


And we are for now. I know we have probably dropped the ball, but I think we have done well with restraint. But at 4, I know that a child's mind picks up on a lot. 

I regret not leaving sooner, but I had to give it a try. I don't want my child to be raised in two homes, but it's hard to share a roof with someone you cannot trust.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> "I never said I'd do it"


I think its clear he does not show any genuine remorse. I would like to think that if you hurt someone you dearly love you would feel some sense of guilt and remorse but as I found there are people out there that just don't care. 

I do understand not being able to R. The day I threw my xW out I knew in my heart I would never love her again. I don't think they even have a clue just how much damage they do when they cheat. Its amazing just how they say will if you would pay more attention to me I wouldn't have to look else where. Some how in there mind they equate cheating being equal to lack of attention. I do understand being upset in a relationship and feeling like you want to leave but to burn it all down in the process then act like nothing has really happened just amazes me. 


I understand you having doubts about leaving but in the end you have to do right by you and your child. The day I was finally divorced I felt relieved for the first time in a very long time. I knew I did the right thing. 

Don't beat yourself up over not leaving sooner. My xW cheated on me over and over for the full 10 years. I will never know to the full extent of her EA's and one PA. I honestly just don't care anymore about it or her. My life is better and my kids live a much better life. 

Clay 
Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> I think its clear he does not show any genuine remorse. I would like to think that if you hurt someone you dearly love you would feel some sense of guilt and remorse but as I found there are people out there that *just don't care*.


I can't say I get that feeling for sure. I definitely know there's a lot of self preservation going on, but for me to say he has done nothing in terms of change is not fair. He does not blame me, always maintains it was something "in him". 



Clay2013 said:


> I do understand not being able to R. The day I threw my xW out I knew in my heart I would never love her again. I don't think they even have a clue just how much damage they do when they cheat. Its amazing just how they say will if you would pay more attention to me I wouldn't have to look else where. Some how in there mind they equate cheating being equal to lack of attention. I do understand being upset in a relationship and feeling like you want to leave but to burn it all down in the process then act like nothing has really happened just amazes me.


No, they don't. At that point, we don't even matter. Nothing matters. My WH was in a strip club 10 days after I gave birth. Instead of being at home, doting on his newborn, he was out getting some eau-de-skank "put" on him. When I asked WTF was that all about, his answer was "I just wanted to see naked women", and unfortunately, being an addict, that's what they do. They get their fix any way they can, and nothing will interfere with that. 




Clay2013 said:


> I understand you having doubts about leaving but in the end you have to do right by you and your child. The day I was finally divorced I felt relieved for the first time in a very long time. I knew I did the right thing.
> 
> Don't beat yourself up over not leaving sooner. My xW cheated on me over and over for the full 10 years. I will never know to the full extent of her EA's and one PA. I honestly just don't care anymore about it or her. My life is better and my kids live a much better life.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I'm not so sure I am. I'm stuck on the past, and it's ruining the present. I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that he is a different person sober. But I can't get past the guy that was, or if "that" guy will make a comeback. I always wonder what the next trigger will be. I always wonder what new, young little blond will come his way, and all this would be for naught. Then I have to think about the fact there are no guarantees that any new guy I meet won't do that same thing and I'm back at square one. Actually worse! Then I'll feel like a double a-hole! 

I just feel so weak, and it's a position I hate being in. Things would be so much more clear cut if not for a child, but here we are. 

I've tried to understand it from his perspective, but in all my reading (TAM and other sites), talking to guys I know, even posting on "Ask a guy" type forums, about the possibility of a man being able to just contain his activities to a non-physical level when opportunity and time was plentiful, and I have yet to have any guy say "Oh yeah, I was just messing with this chick for years but had no desire to have sex with her", which is basically my WH's claim. That it was all a mind-game with no intention of going all the way. That it was some ego trip of "How far can I get this girl to go?"

Even though I have every right to leave, I don't want to ruin my child's family structure for stupid little sexting games. But I cannot believe that's where it ended. Like I said, I have yet to speak to or meet a guy who says that this sort of thing is normal. And as for me, I wouldn't send nude pics of myself to someone I did not have an intimate involvement with, especially a married man!

This whole thing is so messed up and I hate it with all my being that my child will pay the price. I know that we will all move on eventually, but it's not what I envisioned for any of us.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I am glad to hear he does not blame you. It was not that way for me. My xW and her family blamed me. I remember talking to her mom on the phone when she first said it was my fault. I laughed at her and said your just as messed up as your daughter. In truth her mother was messed up. She was cheating on her husband through the whole time as well. I brought this up and you would think I just set fire to everything. We did not talk to much after that point. 

I think you going to just have to decide if you can let go of the past and trust him. If you can't and you still stay with him your child's life will be ruined more than if you had left. 

I think trust is a serious part of the relationship. I think if you knew more about the things he did and he was a more forthcoming you might be able to fix this and move forward but if you can not get this out of him you might not be able to ever fully heal. Watching everything he does from here on out will change you into someone else as well. I hated myself for what I was becoming. 

Have you tried to tell him that if he comes clean you want to save the marriage? I am sure you have but I just am trying to fully understand his thinking. He knows you will leave right? Your not swaying on this are you? To like where he feels you will never leave and he has one over on you. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I have wavered for the past year, so he probably takes comfort in that, but I just don't want to do it anymore. 

I got my forms online, but I think I will also go to an attorney after the New Year just to make sure it's all correct.

He is sticking to his story, so it's a no win situation for me. If I stay I live with the nagging feeling he's lying still, and if I leave, I will have a small piece of guilt that maybe, BIG "maybe", he was telling the truth.

But you are right. If I cannot move forward, it will be worse for our child. No one should grow up in a loveless home.

*sigh* Happy New Year (?)


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

I was married for 14 years and throughout all those years I did drink and party. I'd go to strip clubs. I had female "friends". I knew which girls liked me, and if I was out in a party, I would heavily flirt with them and they would flirt back.

But I'll tell you what, not once did I have sex with any woman while I was with my wife. It felt like I needed the attention to reinforce that I was still attractive to women even as I grew older. 

So while you may think every guy who flirts with women stick their you know what into you know where, its not always true.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Now I also have two young children in those 14 years. And I'll tell you what, it sucks for them not having their parents around full time, but if done correctly, they should adjust. My two children are doing fine.... they enjoy time with their mother and they enjoy time with their father as well.

Just make sure you have some ground rules in place and that both of you respect each other and follow them.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Alpha said:


> I was married for 14 years and throughout all those years I did drink and party. I'd go to strip clubs. I had female "friends". I knew which girls liked me, and if I was out in a party, I would heavily flirt with them and they would flirt back.
> 
> But I'll tell you what, not once did I have sex with any woman while I was with my wife. It felt like I needed the attention to reinforce that I was still attractive to women even as I grew older.
> 
> So while you may think every guy who flirts with women stick their you know what into you know where, its not always true.


Flirting and having full-blown EAs that went on for years, are two different things. Did you sext with your female "friends"? Did they know you were married and still send you nude pics? Were they texting/calling you at ALL hours of the day and night? If not, it's not really a fair comparison.

But I thank you for your input


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I know this is hard for you but try to look at this from a better perspective. Its a new year. This is a chance for you to start all over with your husband and build a fresh start or its a chance for you to take time for you and your child. 

Don't be hard on yourself your doing the best you can with what you have been given. You are probably doing better than most have. I read a lot of threads and its clear some peoples lives were really difficult. I look back at my own past and it was extremely difficult for me. I do regret staying with my xW for so long the most. I was stuck on what my grandparents raised me thinking. Things have changed so much since their time. I think had they been alive when I went through this my grand father would have told me to leave. 

What ever you decide to do make your life better for you. Its your time to take control of your life. 

Happy New Year.

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah, I know. It's just hard. My family lives thousands of miles away, so I feel very alone. I couldn't move because there is no way on earth my stbxh would allow it (taking our child with me), and I think that is what is the scariest. Doing this alone.

My child is quite attached to me (as evidenced by the tears and tantrums whenever we are separated), so it may not be so bad in that regard (although I am not surprised - Daddy missed those early bonding years because he was too busy running after strippers and other women. How sad. You don't even love your child enough to act right!)

I think I just need to breathe, talk to my mom (my folks still don't know - I'm pretty convinced they would've talked me into divorce ages ago and funded the whole venture, which is why I said nothing in case R was successful. His parents know and of course his mom wants us to stay together, and wants me to "give it to God". She grew up in a household with a cheating father so I guess she thinks it's normal for a woman to just put up with it), and seek out my legal options.

I can do this! (repeat, breathe, repeat LOL)


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Calls, sexting, nude hooters with the iPhone? All cheating.

You should push forward with D. However, I would praise him for quitting drinking. 

He sounds like a troubled individual.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

He is. I feel a little guilt, in that I have addict family members, and whenever they do crazy sh*t, my first reaction is "Well, you're not dealing with the person, you're dealing with the addiction". Not as an excuse, but as an explanation.

For some reason, I cannot extend that level of compassion to my stbxh.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I have been reading the other thread you have in CWI it sure does not seem like your husband is all that remorseful. You really should stop and take note of this. If you stay with him imagine what things will be like the next time you catch him. 

The thing about him being willing to let you take your child. I can tell you most states lean towards the woman having the children. I think you will find this wont be much of a argument if it goes to court. The bigger issue will be how much child support he has to pay. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah, his brand of remorse is weird. His "steps" were "correct" (passwords, access to phone, quitting drinking, being home every night, NC, etc.) but then there's the defiant attitude. I feel like he thinks I should be over it already (he's never said it, but you can just tell when the topic comes up and it's automatically fight time). Granted, I have not been all that kind to him during the past year (we've had up and downs) and I think we're just both done, but no one wants to make the first move. 

It's just a very hard thing to do. As a Christian, I am loathe to divorce. I know I am supposed to forgive and move on, and I am not at spiritual peace with this at all. As a parent, I don't want to break up my child's home. As for me? I don't know. It's highly unlikely I will ever embark on a new relationship. Not "never", but highly unlikely. I am very much a "once bitten, twice shy" type of person. The past year has pretty much been a FWB situation, with no B as of late. 

I just don't understand why it is so hard to just admit the truth. It's not like things are going to get any worse! I really don't understand the logic in that at all!


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Flirting and having full-blown EAs that went on for years, are two different things. Did you sext with your female "friends"? Did they know you were married and still send you nude pics? Were they texting/calling you at ALL hours of the day and night? If not, it's not really a fair comparison.
> 
> But I thank you for your input


I never had any EA's, sexting, nude pics, like you said. So no, they are not the same, and yes, really great chance that he did / is having something on the side.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

If you want to stay with him your going to have to figure out how to get him to open up and be honest and decent to you. You feelings do count. Your being able to heal all depends on how he treats you. Its not just about forgiveness is about accepting what he has done wrong and coming to terms with it. If he does not do that you will not be able to trust him. He has to be willing in his mind and heart to stay faithful to you. It will not work if he feels you are just forcing him to not do it. 

I really get the wanting to stay married not only for religious purposes but for honoring our commitment we make when we get married. I was raised by my grand parents and they drilled this into me. I however do not think they would have agree with someone cheating on them over and over. I think a line would have been drawn at that. I experienced this myself and felt a lot of the same things you are feeling now. 

If do stay it had to be for you not your child. It has to be because you want to be with your husband. 

On the other side of this I can tell you it does get better. You do learn to open your heart up and there are wonderful people out there. Not everyone is horrible like this. Sure you will have to take your time to heal but I do think you will see it does get better. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> On the other side of this I can tell you it does get better. You do learn to open your heart up and there are wonderful people out there. Not everyone is horrible like this. Sure you will have to take your time to heal but I do think you will see it does get better.
> 
> Clay


In time, perhaps. I'm pretty much devoting everything to my child and I think any new relationship would be confusing, especially at such a young age. I've seen with other family members the negative effects of "relationship jumping" that has happened after their parent's divorce. I definitely do NOT want that for my kid, and wouldn't let it happen anyway. Can't speak for stbxh though. For all his posturing, I feel that he would jump into the next relationship right away (if marriage didn't stop him...), but no one can ever replace mommy, so I'm good LOL!

I think it's just a very sad realization for me that my stbxh loves himself more than his family. I mean, that was evident with him having affairs, but now that there is a chance to fix it, he's choosing not to. Sometimes you hope against hope, but I guess the need to save face, or whatever he is doing, is much stronger. 

I don't get it.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I don't think you will ever get it. I never got any real reason from my xW other than it was all my fault she cheated. 

I think your just going to have to figure out what you are willing to put up with. I know its really difficult to leave but in the end you are the only one that can make that choice. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

True. I had forms ordered and want an attorney to go over them. I called today to ask some questions about what I have (just for clarification). Us both being unemployed makes the whole alimony/child support things a little tricky. I am content to live in the same house 'til either of us is financially stable (hey, I've done it thus far), but it seems that the law is a little more precise on things? Getting into the nitty gritty of separating every piece of anything valuable is just stupid to me. We're not at each others throats or anything. I will have to ask the attorney if the courts will just let us sort out the small stuff. Can you do that?

Ugh! Like I don't have enough to think about. Makes our "roommate" scenario seem like a better deal the further I delve into it!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It really depends how you file. If you are going to go for custody of your child then he will be ordered to pay child support. The amount will depend on your state. They will push him to find a job and then you can have the child support enforcement reassess his support. I highly recommend you do this. Its not about punishing your H it is about making sure you child is cared for. 

As far as splitting your assets up you really don't have to right everything down unless he disputes them. That is the part I would focus on. If you can sit down with him and talk to him about how to divide the assets it would be best. 

I am sorry to hear you are not able to get him to work with you. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Actually, he has agreed to pretty much everything I've asked. A 50/50 split on everything except debts in our own names. Now whether or not when the time actually comes he will play ball is another story, but we shall see. For now there are no disputes.

I would prefer he be employed, in all honesty. I don't know if they garnish unemployment benefits but even if they did, it's so pitiful in my state that I'd be absolute poverty and it wouldn't even be worth it. There is his 401k, but if I took the cash value of half of it, they'd hit me with the highest tax rate plus 10%, which would be a kick in the butt. 

LOL No wonder lawyers make a mint with divorces. You don't realize how much you have intertwined until it comes time to undo it all (which pisses me off on another level - that he threw away everything WE worked for for sleazy, bleach-blond bimbos).

Yeah, I probably should've started with an lawyer to begin with. 

Argh!!!!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It is good you can at least talk to him about it and actually draw some lines down. I would write these thing down. You actually can do most of the leg work on your own without a lawyer.. I have had to do this myself so I understand how intimidating it all can be. There are lawyers out there that will give a lot of really good advice for very little money. 

The courts and the system has really changed over the years about child support and the Other Parents role in the child's life.
They will push your husband to get a job and if it is only unemployment benefits they will garnish them. My xW was fired from her job and she decided since she would just take some time off anyhow. I did not push it and just kept quiet for about 6 months. I asked her one day if she did intend on going back to work she said she didn't know. I talked to Child support enforcement and while they were a little slow to deal with it 5 months later my xW was in court explaining why she is not paying her child support. The courts stated if she does not pay she goes to jail. She amazingly found a job within a month and we are back on track. 

I don't think you were really ever understand why someone throws there marriage away. My xW is with a guy that is like the worst of the worst. This guy has been to jail several times. Can't hold a job to save his life. He cheated on his xW to be with mine. I think my xW is actually cheating on him now but I really don't have to much proof. To be honest I really don't eve care about her at all anymore. I think I have found myself at a point in where I look at her as someone I just spend some time with. Its actually strange. When you have kids with someone there is like a bond that you would share for all your life. I have heard people talk about this and explain this to me. I really do not feel that for her at all. I think all the cheating she did really killed all my feelings for her. 

I hope yours goes better.

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I think I can get all this done for about $1000-$2000, which I have (well in credit lines anyway - I have about $1000 cash socked away too) - well, assuming it stays uncontested. I told him that until he is willing to come completely clean, we have nothing to talk about other than things regarding our child and practical matters like the divorce, bill paying, etc. That being said... we hardly talk. At all. It hurts to see that he pretty much doesn't care to work on this by being honest, but you can't make someone talk and you can't make someone love you enough to give you the truth.

*sigh* Now to tell the family about what's going on. Hardest phone call to make, ever!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I am really sorry you are even experiencing this. It never is easy. I know we all live different lives and experience love and relationships different but somehow the pain all feels the same. I would push the issue that you will have the kids so the more money you are able to keep to help take care of them the better. 

It really sounds like you have a lot going for you. You have already looked at this from different sides and even tried to be reasonable with him. This shows show more for the type of person you are. It sounds like you are very smart and do have a really good heart. 
I think if you do divorce him your going to do just fine. 

Telling family members is always hard but stick to your core beliefs. You tried to save this and that is more than most people can say. If you do file the papers on your own it probably will cost less than 1k unless he decides to try to fight you on some things. I would keep one thing in mind he might be holding out to see if your threat is real. I would not be surprised at all if he tries to save the marriage when you put the papers down. It really brings things to light. 

I never understood my xW. She had no problem moving on to the OM but for some reason she felt she needed to write me horrible letters for six months. I was really thinking It should have been the other way around. You would have thought I was the one that cheated and she was the betrayed spouse. 

Clay


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

If you're interested, I've posted the latest developments in my saga on the CWI thread 'WS's, how long did it take before you admitted the WHOLE truth, if ever?'

Things are starting to make a little more sense...


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

And thanks for being a great sounding board!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> And thanks for being a great sounding board!


Any time  Wished I would have found this place when it all went to hell for me. I had to do it all on my own. 

Clay


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