# It Finally Over



## AtMyEnd

So it's actually been a pretty long time since I've posted on here or updated things on my situation. Some of you may remember my story but maybe not. Long story short, there have been problems with my marriage for the last 5 years or so which began because of how much my wife worked and always put work in front of our marriage and at times our family. Any time I tried to talk about things it always ended in a fight and over time we both began to withdraw ourselves from each other. 

Three years ago I found myself in an EA with someone I met online but never in person, my wife was suspicious, she hacked into my phone, and found out about it. When she confronted me I came clean about everything, apologized and worked to do everything I could to try and fix our problems. Roughly 6 months after that I found her texting another man from the time she woke up to the time she went to sleep. I confronted her, she denied everything, told me it was just a colleague that she became friendly with, and it wasn't what I thought. Being that I had no real concrete proof of an affair because all I had seen was her text log and not the actual texts, and considering that I had done what I did previously, I let it slide. I told her I didn't approve of her texting other men and how the amount of times she had been texting him was more then just a working relationship. We continued to (or I continued to) try and work on our problems for the sake of our young son.

Then last year once again I caught her texting with a different man through Whatsapp. This time I did see one of the texts between them, and as much as his text was very explicit and direct towards her, her response was very vague. But given the nature of his text and knowing that no man would send something like that to another woman unless they knew it would be accepted, I knew something was going on. I confronted her about it and again she denied any wrong doing and said that his text was "unsolicited" and she didn't know why he would send something like that. After that things became very tense between us, I went full CSI investigation on her for months but found nothing else. I did find out about lies she had told me and a lot of other suspicious activity but still found nothing concrete that there was a physical affair. Again I decided that for the sake of our young son I would continue to try and work on things and keep my eyes open wider then ever.

After a few months things leveled off and actually did improve. We were spending more time together and getting along well. As much as I still had that feeling that something was still off, there were no real signs of anything like there had been in the past. Things got better but it still didn't feel like a marriage, and the last couple months that feeling that something was going on again came back. One night last week I had a chance again to look through her phone, it wasn't that I really wanted to but that feeling was there and I felt I needed to. I looked for the usual names and numbers and found nothing, then started to look through her pictures. There I found a picture of her holding a card that had come with flowers sent to her office, I saw the name and knew it. I went back into her texts and looked at the texts between them. What I found was the two of them talking about their feelings for each other, how often they saw each other and more. After seeing all that I confronted her and got the typical response of "It's just a friend and nothing happened" but after seeing what I saw I knew without a doubt that it was BS. And to make matters worse, this time the other guy was a friend of mine and someone I have known for almost 30 years.

The next morning I contacted the other mans wife and found out that they were actually only a few days from signing their divorce papers because she had found out that he was having an affair with someone else. After going back and forth with my friends wife and hearing what he ended up confessing to was that it had been going on for over a year but had pretty much stopped when my wife had gotten injured a few months ago and couldn't get around much, which was when he started seeing the woman he got caught with. So now we have this whole tangled web between them which has now ruined 2 marriages, is going to effect the lives of 3 children, and has now had major impacts on countless friendships that date back to high school.

I am now in the process of working with an attorney to finally end my nightmare and just hoping that she doesn't try to fight me too much on what I want and am entitled to, although I know she's going to fight a little. Personally I was an idiot, I always jumped the gun on confronting her before I had anything truly concrete proving anything. I tried to do my best to work on things because I thought it would be better for my son. And I thought that maybe, if I stuck it out that things would actually improve and go back to the way they were. I should've trusted my gut and not my heart. Being that so much as gone on over the years and I've had to deal with so much, what's happening now doesn't really have too much effect on me mentally which is good. Hopefully things go smoothly from this point and I can start my new, happier life sooner then later.


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## Tobyboy

Wow. I remember reading your threads here about a year ago. Back then you were snooping pretty hard. How did you miss this affair with your friend? Did your WW ever come clean with the “others”?


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## Volunteer86

Sorry to hear....Did she ever fess up? Hang in there, I know it may hurt and suck right now but time heals....


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## Lostinthought61

i love how your wife was such a hypocrite to you but she maintain i level of dignity in everything she did...what a load of crap she is...frankly i am glad you can move on knowing her behavior. I will this i am troubled that as a parent that her character flaw is something that the kids will see. I question her ability to properly parent. 

I am glad you went to the OM wife, and that you blew the doors on this...i truly wish you the best


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## Marc878

Sounds like a serial cheat. No option. Get out ASAP


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## sokillme

AtMyEnd said:


> So it's actually been a pretty long time since I've posted on here or updated things on my situation. Some of you may remember my story but maybe not. Long story short, there have been problems with my marriage for the last 5 years or so which began because of how much my wife worked and always put work in front of our marriage and at times our family. Any time I tried to talk about things it always ended in a fight and over time we both began to withdraw ourselves from each other.
> 
> Three years ago I found myself in an EA with someone I met online but never in person, my wife was suspicious, she hacked into my phone, and found out about it. When she confronted me I came clean about everything, apologized and worked to do everything I could to try and fix our problems. Roughly 6 months after that I found her texting another man from the time she woke up to the time she went to sleep. I confronted her, she denied everything, told me it was just a colleague that she became friendly with, and it wasn't what I thought. Being that I had no real concrete proof of an affair because all I had seen was her text log and not the actual texts, and considering that I had done what I did previously, I let it slide. I told her I didn't approve of her texting other men and how the amount of times she had been texting him was more then just a working relationship. We continued to (or I continued to) try and work on our problems for the sake of our young son.
> 
> Then last year once again I caught her texting with a different man through Whatsapp. This time I did see one of the texts between them, and as much as his text was very explicit and direct towards her, her response was very vague. But given the nature of his text and knowing that no man would send something like that to another woman unless they knew it would be accepted, I knew something was going on. I confronted her about it and again she denied any wrong doing and said that his text was "unsolicited" and she didn't know why he would send something like that. After that things became very tense between us, I went full CSI investigation on her for months but found nothing else. I did find out about lies she had told me and a lot of other suspicious activity but still found nothing concrete that there was a physical affair. Again I decided that for the sake of our young son I would continue to try and work on things and keep my eyes open wider then ever.
> 
> After a few months things leveled off and actually did improve. We were spending more time together and getting along well. As much as I still had that feeling that something was still off, there were no real signs of anything like there had been in the past. Things got better but it still didn't feel like a marriage, and the last couple months that feeling that something was going on again came back. One night last week I had a chance again to look through her phone, it wasn't that I really wanted to but that feeling was there and I felt I needed to. I looked for the usual names and numbers and found nothing, then started to look through her pictures. There I found a picture of her holding a card that had come with flowers sent to her office, I saw the name and knew it. I went back into her texts and looked at the texts between them. What I found was the two of them talking about their feelings for each other, how often they saw each other and more. After seeing all that I confronted her and got the typical response of "It's just a friend and nothing happened" but after seeing what I saw I knew without a doubt that it was BS. And to make matters worse, this time the other guy was a friend of mine and someone I have known for almost 30 years.
> 
> The next morning I contacted the other mans wife and found out that they were actually only a few days from signing their divorce papers because she had found out that he was having an affair with someone else. After going back and forth with my friends wife and hearing what he ended up confessing to was that it had been going on for over a year but had pretty much stopped when my wife had gotten injured a few months ago and couldn't get around much, which was when he started seeing the woman he got caught with. So now we have this whole tangled web between them which has now ruined 2 marriages, is going to effect the lives of 3 children, and has now had major impacts on countless friendships that date back to high school.
> 
> I am now in the process of working with an attorney to finally end my nightmare and just hoping that she doesn't try to fight me too much on what I want and am entitled to, although I know she's going to fight a little. Personally I was an idiot, I always jumped the gun on confronting her before I had anything truly concrete proving anything. I tried to do my best to work on things because I thought it would be better for my son. And I thought that maybe, if I stuck it out that things would actually improve and go back to the way they were. I should've trusted my gut and not my heart. Being that so much as gone on over the years and I've had to deal with so much, what's happening now doesn't really have too much effect on me mentally which is good. Hopefully things go smoothly from this point and I can start my new, happier life sooner then later.


Use your knowledge and keeping is secret to get the best deal in divorce, then after it's finalized tell the whole world. That is what I would do, also tell on your so called friend.


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## Beach123

Your wife is the worst kind of cheater! Pointing the discretionary finger at you while cheating behind your back and never admitting to it!

She is an attention *****... she will sacrifice anyone's feelings to gain attention from a man or men!

Be glad you can get a life that's separate from her - she will never be satisfied and there will never be enough men to pay attention to her needs.

She's broken! You can't fix her! 

Let her go and move forward being happy on your own knowing she's not stabbing you in the back anymore.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Ditto to the snooping pretty hard a year ago. You used all the standard tools. How did she manage to hide the affair?


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## AtMyEnd

sokillme said:


> Use your knowledge and keeping is secret to get the best deal in divorce, then after it's finalized tell the whole world. That is what I would do, also tell on your so called friend.


Oh, the news about what happened and with who is already out. The affair happened with someone in the group of about 15 close friends who have all known each other since middle school. And after catching my almost ex-wife telling people that we are getting divorced this past weekend and hearing her tell a few that I was the cause of it, that was it for me. After driving her and my son home, I went back to the bbq we were at and told my friends what happened and with who. Everyone was shocked about what happened and also couldn't believe how it had gone on for over a year without any of us finding out about it.


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## AtMyEnd

Tobyboy said:


> Wow. I remember reading your threads here about a year ago. Back then you were snooping pretty hard. How did you miss this affair with your friend? Did your WW ever come clean with the “others”?


No, she never came clean about any of them and still insists that this recent one was only a friendship. She described it as how they were both having problems with their marriages and would vent to each other and just became good friends. I told her that becoming friends or helping or talking to a friend who needs it is one thing, but lying to me about where she's going and sneaking around behind my back is an affair any way you look at it. And honestly, back then when I was snooping really hard, I never in a million years thought to look at the texts between him and her. Being that this group of friends is so close, it's not uncommon for the husbands and wives to text or call each other to make play dates for the kids or other plans to get together. And because we've all known each other for so long and have been through a lot together over the past 30 years, the trust level within the crowd has always been high. But this just goes to show that anything can happen, and it really can be the person you least expect it to be.


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## AtMyEnd

Volunteer86 said:


> Sorry to hear....Did she ever fess up? Hang in there, I know it may hurt and suck right now but time heals....


Honestly, it doesn't even hurt. With everything else that has gone on over the years, I knew that eventually we would divorce. But like I said a year ago, because of my son and the effect a divorce will have on him, I needed 100% concrete proof that there was more then just texting with other men, and this time I got that. As much as both of them deny ever having sex together, they have admitted to kissing and how their "friendship" has been going on over a year. The texts I saw were both of them talking about their feelings for each other, how often they used to see each other before my wife got hurt, and how "great" they were together. Along with that, there were a few other things I found that just shows without a doubt that there was more then they admit to. But like I said, I'm not hurt, I knew I was going to find something again. I was just a little in shock about who it was with.


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## AtMyEnd

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Ditto to the snooping pretty hard a year ago. You used all the standard tools. How did she manage to hide the affair?


I think that this one was just a matter of hiding it in plain site. This happened within a close group of friends who all went to middle school and high school together. When we were younger we all played sports together, we fought together, we partied together, and everything else. As we got older we were all in each others wedding parties, god parents to each others kids, we were all always doing things together and helping each other out. The trust level within the group was the highest and no one ever had a reason to doubt that, and I think that's what made it so easy to hide this. It wasn't uncommon for the husbands and wives to talk each other, call each other or text. Whether it was personal problems, setting up play dates or just planning a night out, it was totally normal for any one in the group to talk or help another spouse.

What I've come to find out was that over the past year at times when I suspected she was going to meet someone else, she was really going to meet with him. When she told me she was going to get her nails done and run some errands, she was going to meet with him. Any time I got suspicious of something and had a chance to look through her phone or phone records, I'd look for the usual suspects or other numbers that I didn't know. There was never a reason to even think it was this person, even after telling all my friends about all this, everyone was in shock that not only that it happened within the group, but how no one else ever picked up on it either.

It really is like the old saying goes "the best way to really hide something, is in plain sight"


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## AtMyEnd

Lostinthought61 said:


> i love how your wife was such a hypocrite to you but she maintain i level of dignity in everything she did...what a load of crap she is...frankly i am glad you can move on knowing her behavior. I will this i am troubled that as a parent that her character flaw is something that the kids will see. I question her ability to properly parent.
> 
> I am glad you went to the OM wife, and that you blew the doors on this...i truly wish you the best


And this is exactly what I was talking about a year ago when I said that I couldn't leave her and effect my son with a divorce without knowing 100%. A year ago, even with everything I saw, there was never anything that was 100% yes there was an affair. Even with everything I did see and find back then, if I had left then there would've always been that thought in the back of my head about whether I was right or not and if I really did do the right thing. After what I recently saw, found and found out from the OM's wife, there is not a doubt in my mind about what happened, and I really can move on with my life separate from her knowing that I did do the right thing. I know it may sound stupid to some, but we've been together now for 17 years, and married close to 15. For me to just call it quits after investing 17 years of my life into something, I needed to know for myself that without a doubt it's the right thing to do. The odd thing is that I don't feel hurt by any of it this time other then just being in shock a little because of who it was with, but I'm good. For the first time in a long time I can honestly say I feel good and I can't wait to just get the divorce finalized and be able able to move on with my life. Clean slate, no doubts, just move on.


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## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> And this is exactly what I was talking about a year ago when I said that I couldn't leave her and effect my son with a divorce without knowing 100%. A year ago, even with everything I saw, there was never anything that was 100% yes there was an affair. Even with everything I did see and find back then, if I had left then there would've always been that thought in the back of my head about whether I was right or not and if I really did do the right thing. After what I recently saw, found and found out from the OM's wife, there is not a doubt in my mind about what happened, and I really can move on with my life separate from her knowing that I did do the right thing. I know it may sound stupid to some, but we've been together now for 17 years, and married close to 15. For me to just call it quits after investing 17 years of my life into something, I needed to know for myself that without a doubt it's the right thing to do. The odd thing is that I don't feel hurt by any of it this time other then just being in shock a little because of who it was with, but I'm good. For the first time in a long time I can honestly say I feel good and I can't wait to just get the divorce finalized and be able able to move on with my life. Clean slate, no doubts, just move on.


What is the status of the OM and his wife? How are the group of friends going to handle these two people. 

I am glad you got proof. Just be glad you got out when you did, trust me it could have been worse...


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## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> What is the status of the OM and his wife? How are the group of friends going to handle these two people.
> 
> I am glad you got proof. Just be glad you got out when you did, trust me it could have been worse...


Well that's the funny thing about the OM and my wife. When I found what I found, the next morning I texted his wife and told her that she should take a look at his phone, especially the texts between him and my wife. She called me about 5 minutes later asking what was going on and I told her what I had found. She asked that I forward the screenshots of the texts to her and then told me that they were only a few days away from finalizing their own divorce, lol. Now this is where it gets good, lol.

So the OM's wife had found out that he had been seeing another woman, other than my wife. He got caught having an affair with a coworker of his, he confessed to it so they filed for divorce. After talking to the OM's wife about him and my wife, and comparing notes on both affairs, we figured out some very interesting and funny things about all of it. So the OM and my wife had been having an affair for a little over a year according to what the OM confessed. From what my wife told me, it was nothing more than a "friendship" but that they really hadn't seen each other since February. Now this is where things get interesting. The beginning of March my wife went on a ski trip, a trip she takes every year with a large group. On that trip she got hurt pretty bad, tore pretty much every ligament in her ankle. So when she got back she really couldn't get around at all. So what myself and the OM's wife realized from what she had found, was that since my wife was injured and couldn't get around, he went out and started dating this other woman, the one he got caught with. The OM also confessed to his wife how he had been trying to get rid of my wife for a while because he wanted to be with this other woman but my wife kept "stalking" him. So talk about karma biting you in the arse right? LOL So now the OM is divorced and is apparently dating this other woman who he claims to want a relationship with, and my wife is left with nothing. No affair partner, no husband anymore, and once the divorce is finalized, she'll only have half of everything else, LOL

As far as our group of friends, everyone has cut ties and contact with both of them. They're all as shocked and sickened by all of it as I am. Now I know that over time some of those friendships will most likely rekindle, but I know that they won't be the same as they once were. I also told all of them that because of the kids that they may have to see her from time to time because of the kids birthday parties or whatever else. I told them that during those times to not outcast her but not be overly friendly with her either, basically if they could just suck it up for the hour or two for the sake of the kids that I'd appreciate it. The last thing I want in all this is it to cause more effect on my son then there needs to be.


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## hinterdir

Sorry to hear that. If she's had an affair than screw her. You take care of you and your future and you go get the help and support and healing services you need. 

It sounds like you never set good boundaries for your marriage from the start if work was taking priority over marriage/family and she was given the freedom by you to just text other men all the time. 

It sounds like you needed to set some good boundaries at the start of the marriage and then stand fast by them before things got this bad to where she only cared about her career and was texting endless men around the clock with you just whimpering like a puppy in the corner about it. You were probably too weak, too passive. 

Too late now. If she's had someone else's **** in her than who'd want her anymore, this is dead and buried. God speed with your healing and getting through the divorce and getting on with your life.


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## hinterdir

ps - I've heard you never want to move out of the house because that gives her 100% access to all of each others assets. Remind mature and civil face to face and on social media, courts are more lenient to the party who acts reasonable and seems to be making an effort. If you end up having to move out make a narrated video of you with all the assets and property of the house and household.


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## AtMyEnd

hinterdir said:


> ps - I've heard you never want to move out of the house because that gives her 100% access to all of each others assets. Remind mature and civil face to face and on social media, courts are more lenient to the party who acts reasonable and seems to be making an effort. If you end up having to move out make a narrated video of you with all the assets and property of the house and household.


At the beginning the boundaries were there. If she was out with friends somewhere and someone hit on her or whatever she always told me about it when she got home. Things changed when she finished law school and got her first job as an attorney. Even then we spoke about it and I understood what she was saying. She was a young female attorney in a very male dominant industry and she was trying to prove herself and make a name for herself. And even then if something was said to her by another man or whatever she would tell me about it. The problem was that slowly she got pulled more and more into work and networking. When I tried to talk to her about how much time she was spending working and at networking events, as a way to reinforce and remind her of the boundaries we once had, she took it as me "hating her career". The more I tried to talk to her about it, the more it caused fights and pushed us apart which ultimately led to the beginning of our problems.

As far as moving out, I'm still in the house and I've told her a few times that I'm not leaving until everything is settled and signed. Legally, I have every right to stay at the house, and for the most part we are civil and do get along, especially when our son is around. She knows that when it all comes down to it that she has no leg to stand on. She knows I have screenshots of all the texts I've found over the years, I have all the texts between her and I talking about our problems as well as all the emails. She knows I have the emails and texts of me talking about counseling, me finding a counselor, and her saying she didn't want to go anymore after 3 sessions, along with all the times that she admitted to "checking out of the marriage a long time ago" and me continually saying how I didn't feel that all the years together and all the memories we've made were worth giving up because of a couple rough years, without at least putting in an honest effort to try and work things out.


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## Tobyboy

Your stbxw sounds very disordered. Her personal life in disarray. How’s she doing professionally? Excelling probably, right?


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## Lostinthought61

Does she have any remorse...i realize lying is second nature to many lawyers, but some where in there she must still have some self respect.


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## AtMyEnd

Tobyboy said:


> Your stbxw sounds very disordered. Her personal life in disarray. How’s she doing professionally? Excelling probably, right?


As far as her career she's doing great, and I actually am very proud of her. She recently became a partner in a new firm and her career really has taken off. She's worked hard to get where she is and she does deserve it. Unfortunately she pushed aside her marriage and now has lost that in order to get where she is. Her personal life is a complete train wreck, which is something I still don't understand. Like how is it that someone who is so on point with their professional life, such an absolute mess in their personal life? All of the problems we've had over the years, her drinking and how it's gotten worse, friends hearing things here and there, and whatever else, has caused her to lose friends and for some of her friendships to decline. And know with all of this she's lost even more friends, and may lose even more as the news starts to spread, but none of that seems to matter to her. Since I confronted her and told her we were done, she's passed comments to me about how she still what's her, myself and our son to do things together to make memories for him. How she still wants to go on family trips that we had planned together with other friends and families this summer. Like in her head, she honestly doesn't think any of this is going to effect anything in her life. It's just bizarre.


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## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> Well that's the funny thing about the OM and my wife. When I found what I found, the next morning I texted his wife and told her that she should take a look at his phone, especially the texts between him and my wife. She called me about 5 minutes later asking what was going on and I told her what I had found. She asked that I forward the screenshots of the texts to her and then told me that they were only a few days away from finalizing their own divorce, lol. Now this is where it gets good, lol.
> 
> So the OM's wife had found out that he had been seeing another woman, other than my wife. He got caught having an affair with a coworker of his, he confessed to it so they filed for divorce. After talking to the OM's wife about him and my wife, and comparing notes on both affairs, we figured out some very interesting and funny things about all of it. So the OM and my wife had been having an affair for a little over a year according to what the OM confessed. From what my wife told me, it was nothing more than a "friendship" but that they really hadn't seen each other since February. Now this is where things get interesting. The beginning of March my wife went on a ski trip, a trip she takes every year with a large group. On that trip she got hurt pretty bad, tore pretty much every ligament in her ankle. So when she got back she really couldn't get around at all. So what myself and the OM's wife realized from what she had found, was that since my wife was injured and couldn't get around, he went out and started dating this other woman, the one he got caught with. The OM also confessed to his wife how he had been trying to get rid of my wife for a while because he wanted to be with this other woman but my wife kept "stalking" him. So talk about karma biting you in the arse right? LOL So now the OM is divorced and is apparently dating this other woman who he claims to want a relationship with, and my wife is left with nothing. No affair partner, no husband anymore, and once the divorce is finalized, she'll only have half of everything else, LOL
> 
> As far as our group of friends, everyone has cut ties and contact with both of them. They're all as shocked and sickened by all of it as I am. Now I know that over time some of those friendships will most likely rekindle, but I know that they won't be the same as they once were. I also told all of them that because of the kids that they may have to see her from time to time because of the kids birthday parties or whatever else. I told them that during those times to not outcast her but not be overly friendly with her either, basically if they could just suck it up for the hour or two for the sake of the kids that I'd appreciate it. The last thing I want in all this is it to cause more effect on my son then there needs to be.


That is just so great, I just makes me feel good that the bus hit her so quickly...

Not to make like of your situation in any way, it sucks. 

But if it had to suck, she might as wall suffer in the mean time...

Good luck to you.


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## threelittlestars

I am sorry she screwed your family and friends over along with the OM. 

But... I may have a bit of a wayward inside me...Im a BS, and If if connect with another guy that wants an EA I could rationalize having one. Even a full blown PA... I know revenge affairs are not right, I don't exactly condone them but sometimes in the BS like your wife the love and respect gets broken and all that is left is comfort and duty. (It is no excuse to cheat but one can convince themselves of anything if you try hard enough) 

Comfort and Duty: This is roughly the terrain I trod for a long time. Love is there, but buried deep in my memories. But that love angers me because it is a mere shadow of the love I once had for my spouse. This emotional climate I am in is rife with temptation to escape the lonlieness I feel. 

Anyway, I blab on and on. I see why your wife had an affair of her own, i think she too felt much how I feel right now. But she chose to act on that emotion in the wrong way. 

Maybe she felt stuck... Maybe she didn't want to do the right thing. Maybe she wanted to hurt you... I don't know, but I can Identify with some things about her actions. 

I am sad/sorry to see that you do not wish Reconcile, but totally understand. Your wife took things very far in her actions and a years worth of lies. She likely does not want to Reconcile either, just does not want to suffer the backlash she will receive in divorcing you. 

I am sorry about the last few years, I hope the next one will be better and wish you luck.


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## AtMyEnd

threelittlestars said:


> I am sorry she screwed your family and friends over along with the OM.
> 
> But... I may have a bit of a wayward inside me...Im a BS, and If if connect with another guy that wants an EA I could rationalize having one. Even a full blown PA... I know revenge affairs are not right, I don't exactly condone them but sometimes in the BS like your wife the love and respect gets broken and all that is left is comfort and duty. (It is no excuse to cheat but one can convince themselves of anything if you try hard enough)
> 
> Comfort and Duty: This is roughly the terrain I trod for a long time. Love is there, but buried deep in my memories. But that love angers me because it is a mere shadow of the love I once had for my spouse. This emotional climate I am in is rife with temptation to escape the lonlieness I feel.
> 
> Anyway, I blab on and on. I see why your wife had an affair of her own, i think she too felt much how I feel right now. But she chose to act on that emotion in the wrong way.
> 
> Maybe she felt stuck... Maybe she didn't want to do the right thing. Maybe she wanted to hurt you... I don't know, but I can Identify with some things about her actions.
> 
> I am sad/sorry to see that you do not wish Reconcile, but totally understand. Your wife took things very far in her actions and a years worth of lies. She likely does not want to Reconcile either, just does not want to suffer the backlash she will receive in divorcing you.
> 
> I am sorry about the last few years, I hope the next one will be better and wish you luck.


Reading your post leads me to believe that you either read my posts from last year or remember the whole story. Yes I had an EA via texting with a woman 1000 miles away about 3 1/2-4 years ago now. Not to get back into all of that but my EA was caused by her initial disconnect and failure to want to talk and work on our problems prior to the EA. When she found out about that I came completely clean about it, right down to giving her my phone so she could look at the texts and even gave her the woman's contact information. It was a few months after that, that I caught her in her first affair with another man. I never knew if her first was an EA or PA, I knew that it had stopped and I too had the attitude that "well I guess it's payback for mine"

But then not long after that was when I caught her in another one, one which I'm 95% sure was a PA. I knew that they saw each other in social settings at least once a week and had every opportunity to make it a PA. After that one I caught her at a BBQ, upstairs away from everyone else, sitting on another mans lap with his arms around her and her head back on his shoulder. After that I found out that she had apparently let some guy "pick her up" at the driving range, while my son was there, and every time her and my son went to the range I always heard from my son that they saw him there. And now even with this recent one, I also found flirty conversations on her phone between her and some other guy and yet another text thread between her and yes another man that were while not that direct, definitely implied that she was up for anything.

So yes, I was wrong 3 1/2-4 years for having an EA, I've admitted that, apologized for that, and have done everything I could to try and make up for that. Her on the other hand has done nothing over the last 3 years to work on anything except for her relationships with multiple other men.


----------



## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> That is just so great, I just makes me feel good that the bus hit her so quickly...
> 
> Not to make like of your situation in any way, it sucks.
> 
> But if it had to suck, she might as wall suffer in the mean time...
> 
> Good luck to you.


The funny thing is that I don't even know if she knows how many of our friends know about all this. The way she's reacted to things smaller than this, I would've thought that she would've just went off on me like she's done in the past, but I haven't seen that yet. And yes it sucks, but at the same time after everything else I've seen and found over the last few years, I knew it was going to happen again. And like I told her, because her behavioral pattern was always the same in the past when I found out about something, I knew something was going on and that's why when I had an opportunity to look through her phone I did. She thought she was so slick, and yes I will give her a little credit for hiding a year long affair with a friend right under my nose, but I knew it was only a matter of time before she slipped up again. The difference this time was I was waiting for it and I wasn't going to let her know that I knew until I had all the proof I needed to prove it once and for all. You live and you learn, I do feel embarrassed about how things unfolded being that it happened right under my nose with a close friend for so long, but at the same time it felt even better to finally come out and tell my friends what happened and everything that's happened in the past that's now finally causing the divorce


----------



## threelittlestars

AtMyEnd said:


> Reading your post leads me to believe that you either read my posts from last year or remember the whole story. Yes I had an EA via texting with a woman 1000 miles away about 3 1/2-4 years ago now. Not to get back into all of that but my EA was caused by her initial disconnect and failure to want to talk and work on our problems prior to the EA. When she found out about that I came completely clean about it, right down to giving her my phone so she could look at the texts and even gave her the woman's contact information. It was a few months after that, that I caught her in her first affair with another man. I never knew if her first was an EA or PA, I knew that it had stopped and I too had the attitude that "well I guess it's payback for mine"
> 
> But then not long after that was when I caught her in another one, one which I'm 95% sure was a PA. I knew that they saw each other in social settings at least once a week and had every opportunity to make it a PA. After that one I caught her at a BBQ, upstairs away from everyone else, sitting on another mans lap with his arms around her and her head back on his shoulder. After that I found out that she had apparently let some guy "pick her up" at the driving range, while my son was there, and every time her and my son went to the range I always heard from my son that they saw him there. And now even with this recent one, I also found flirty conversations on her phone between her and some other guy and yet another text thread between her and yes another man that were while not that direct, definitely implied that she was up for anything.
> 
> So yes, I was wrong 3 1/2-4 years for having an EA, I've admitted that, apologized for that, and have done everything I could to try and make up for that. Her on the other hand has done nothing over the last 3 years to work on anything except for her relationships with multiple other men.



My husband did much the same as you and I am sure if you asked his opinion he would reiterate much as you have on why you had your own affair in the beginning. Much like my own husband (ONLINE cheating) his attempts at reconciliation and apology may have not been enough. Maybe there never would be enough you could have done. She must have issues with talking about her feelings constructively. 

Im not excusing her behavior, Im only connecting it to my own. My husband did what you have done and i am nearly 4 years post D-day and really has not been enough to win back my devotion. And it pains me because I want him to be able to earn it back. 

I wonder if your wife had the same problems with wanting to come back to the marriage but just never forgave you and she perhaps stewed on it so long conflicted in what she wanted.... 

I digress. Im not blaming you for doing things wrong perse just trying to decipher more of your situation because it is so similar to my own, minus me cheating.


----------



## AtMyEnd

threelittlestars said:


> My husband did much the same as you and I am sure if you asked his opinion he would reiterate much as you have on why you had your own affair in the beginning. Much like my own husband (ONLINE cheating) his attempts at reconciliation and apology may have not been enough. Maybe there never would be enough you could have done. She must have issues with talking about her feelings constructively.
> 
> Im not excusing her behavior, Im only connecting it to my own. My husband did what you have done and i am nearly 4 years post D-day and really has not been enough to win back my devotion. And it pains me because I want him to be able to earn it back.
> 
> I wonder if your wife had the same problems with wanting to come back to the marriage but just never forgave you and she perhaps stewed on it so long conflicted in what she wanted....
> 
> I digress. Im not blaming you for doing things wrong perse just trying to decipher more of your situation because it is so similar to my own, minus me cheating.


Since day one of our problems she never wanted to talk about it. The few times we started to, even in counseling, the second she got proven wrong or felt that someone was against her thinking she withdrew completely. And when she withdrew, then she'd avoid, which only led to more problems, which is what led me to eventually give up and withdraw. Then when things blew up and I explained how and what led to my EA happening, she got defensive and felt I was blaming my EA on her when I wasn't. It was like anything I ever said to explain myself and my actions about anything, she took as a personal attack on her. I just couldn't win, or at least that's how I felt. 

After I realized I wasn't getting anywhere with her I decided to try and change my ways and how I acted or reacted to certain things. All that did was cause me to lose who I was. Then I finally got back to me being me and decided that I was just going to let things play out and see what happened. She still always either refused talking about things or avoided it, and now here we are. I've put a lot of work into myself and my marriage the last few years and saw nothing from her except dismissal, refusal and deceit. Looking back on all of it now, I was a complete fool. The only thing I can tell myself is that I tried my best and my hardest to work on things and myself, and at least now I'm a better person for all of it.


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## farsidejunky

OP, you would do well to not make excuses regarding your EA.

Your disconnect with your wife did not cause your EA any more than your EA caused her PA.

Own it. You will be better for it. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

One of the big red flags for a wife’s having an affair is a change in the couples sex life. I didn’t see you mention that in any of your threads I read. Generally, if the wife cuts her husband off or way back, it’s a sure sign she is in love with someone else. It is being faithful to their affair partner. 

If they increase and/or get more adventurous with their husband, it generally means they are having a fling/clings just for the kicks and giggles. Did you see any of these signs? Unfortunately, you didn’t post in the infidelity section and you would have gotten more appropriate advice there.

Regarding your friend she cheated with, was his philandering nature known to any of you. He sounds like a player that has been doing this quite awhile. Were you close to him?


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## AtMyEnd

Chaparral said:


> One of the big red flags for a wife’s having an affair is a change in the couples sex life. I didn’t see you mention that in any of your threads I read. Generally, if the wife cuts her husband off or way back, it’s a sure sign she is in love with someone else. It is being faithful to their affair partner.
> 
> If they increase and/or get more adventurous with their husband, it generally means they are having a fling/clings just for the kicks and giggles. Did you see any of these signs? Unfortunately, you didn’t post in the infidelity section and you would have gotten more appropriate advice there.
> 
> Regarding your friend she cheated with, was his philandering nature known to any of you. He sounds like a player that has been doing this quite awhile. Were you close to him?


After our son was born our sex life died down quite a bit and stayed that way. There were up ticks from time to time but there was nothing really changed in the last 7 years. In the 30 years that I've known the OM he's never been a player, he's a complete homebody with zero drive to do much of anything. When the rest of our group of friends found out they were all as shocked as I was. Like I said in a previous post, they hid the affair in the best place possible, in plain site. No one ever noticed anything out of the ordinary


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## AtMyEnd

farsidejunky said:


> OP, you would do well to not make excuses regarding your EA.
> 
> Your disconnect with your wife did not cause your EA any more than your EA caused her PA.
> 
> Own it. You will be better for it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I'm not making excuses for my EA, I do own it and I have owned it. But yes, her initial disconnect led to my depression, that led to my insomnia, that led me to finding things to do in the middle of the night when I couldn't sleep, and that led me to start playing the online game where I met the woman I had the EA with. That relationship started because her past situation and marriage was almost the mirror image of mine. I used her originally as a way to get a female perspective on the problems in my marriage and eventually found myself in an EA. I never set out to do it or meant to do it, it just happened. But yes, I've always owned it.


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## threelittlestars

It is the chain reaction that you link to her pulling from you. What many will refer to you NOT owning it is that you always need to include that bit of info and many see it as rationalization and blame. I see it too in my husband. He does the same thing, but often in my situation I was ignorant of the issue. Anyway I digress, it's how you are saying it happened that people believe you are blaming her, and i imagine she felt as well. Im again not taking her side but if you say she did blank which led to blank... she can as well. You see? 

Anyways it's kinda not important anymore because you are not in the marriage any longer and neither is she.


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## Marc878

AtMyEnd said:


> As far as her career she's doing great, and I actually am very proud of her. She recently became a partner in a new firm and her career really has taken off. She's worked hard to get where she is and she does deserve it. Unfortunately she pushed aside her marriage and now has lost that in order to get where she is. Her personal life is a complete train wreck, which is something I still don't understand. Like how is it that someone who is so on point with their professional life, such an absolute mess in their personal life? All of the problems we've had over the years, her drinking and how it's gotten worse, friends hearing things here and there, and whatever else, has caused her to lose friends and for some of her friendships to decline. And know with all of this she's lost even more friends, and may lose even more as the news starts to spread, but none of that seems to matter to her. *Since I confronted her and told her we were done, she's passed comments to me about how she still what's her, myself and our son to do things together to make memories for him. How she still wants to go on family trips that we had planned together with other friends and families this summer. Like in her head, she honestly doesn't think any of this is going to effect anything in her life. It's just bizarre.*
> 
> 
> 
> All cheaters want to be friends but it's for them not you. A really bad idea for you. Move on and cut her off except text or emails kid only.
Click to expand...


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

AtMyEnd said:


> As far as her career she's doing great, and I actually am very proud of her. She recently became a partner in a new firm and her career really has taken off. She's worked hard to get where she is and she does deserve it. Unfortunately she pushed aside her marriage and now has lost that in order to get where she is. Her personal life is a complete train wreck, which is something I still don't understand. Like how is it that someone who is so on point with their professional life, such an absolute mess in their personal life? All of the problems we've had over the years, her drinking and how it's gotten worse, friends hearing things here and there, and whatever else, has caused her to lose friends and for some of her friendships to decline. And know with all of this she's lost even more friends, and may lose even more as the news starts to spread, but none of that seems to matter to her. Since I confronted her and told her we were done, *she's passed comments to me about how she still what's her, myself and our son to do things together to make memories for him. How she still wants to go on family trips that we had planned together with other friends and families this summer. Like in her head, she honestly doesn't think any of this is going to effect anything in her life. It's just bizarre.*


I would tell her in no uncertain terms in very plain english:

Women, you are absolutely DELUDED if you think I am going to carry on as a family unit with you. I will make memories will my son as I expect you to. But I have zero interest in making them together with you. You cheated on me for years though out marriage culminating in carrying on with my old friend. You lied repeatedly to my face, making me question my sanity with evidence staring me in my face. Nonetheless I trusted you. You betrayed that trust, wasting years of my life. I want nothing to do with you. Zero events, holidays, picnics, friends outings, etc. You made your bed. Go sleep in it.


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## Beach123

After my divorce I worked with a therapist who highly encouraged me to show with actions that my life was separate from my exH and every decision I made needed to be for my kids and that I could show them NEW traditions that we created together as Mom and the kids together.

Many things changed over the years but we have solid traditions that look nothing like our life while I was married for 23 years.

Change is good! You can be clear in your choices that you no longer wish to be connected to her unless absolutely necessary.

Im always clear that my life is separate from his. I'm always neutral. Neutral has saved my emotional well being on many ocassions.


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## Chaparral

AtMyEnd said:


> After our son was born our sex life died down quite a bit and stayed that way. There were up ticks from time to time but there was nothing really changed in the last 7 years. In the 30 years that I've known the OM he's never been a player, he's a complete homebody with zero drive to do much of anything. When the rest of our group of friends found out they were all as shocked as I was. Like I said in a previous post, they hid the affair in the best place possible, in plain site. No one ever noticed anything out of the ordinary


Reading this it reminded me that in the infidelity section, when it turns out the person suspected of being the AP is proven not guilty, almost always someone suggest there may be some one else.

Strangely, folks over there catch a lot of grief for jumping on the he’s/she’s cheating bandwagon but they are right a shockingly 99% of the time.


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## AtMyEnd

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I would tell her in no uncertain terms in very plain english:
> 
> Women, you are absolutely DELUDED if you think I am going to carry on as a family unit with you. I will make memories will my son as I expect you to. But I have zero interest in making them together with you. You cheated on me for years though out marriage culminating in carrying on with my old friend. You lied repeatedly to my face, making me question my sanity with evidence staring me in my face. Nonetheless I trusted you. You betrayed that trust, wasting years of my life. I want nothing to do with you. Zero events, holidays, picnics, friends outings, etc. You made your bed. Go sleep in it.


And that's what I did tell her. If it's something that has to do with our son, I'll be there. Other then that, there is no "us" and no "family" anymore. I told her that if he calls me or texts me and wants me to do something with them when it's not my week that I most likely will, because he wants me to. One thing we always did together as a family was golf together, at 7 years old my son is surprisingly an amazing golfer. If he were to ask me to play a round with them, which for him is usually only 9 holes, I would play. I would play for him, and for me because I enjoy playing and enjoy playing with him.

I also told her that if she is really truly in a bind she can call me for help and I'll see what I can do. She is the mother of my son, we will be sharing custody, and because he's only 7 we will have to be in each other's lives for at least another 11 years. I want things to be as civil as possible for him, not for her, and I don't need her talking badly about me to him. He's still too young to really understand all of this and I don't need her trying to turn him against me.


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## AtMyEnd

Beach123 said:


> After my divorce I worked with a therapist who highly encouraged me to show with actions that my life was separate from my exH and every decision I made needed to be for my kids and that I could show them NEW traditions that we created together as Mom and the kids together.
> 
> Many things changed over the years but we have solid traditions that look nothing like our life while I was married for 23 years.
> 
> Change is good! You can be clear in your choices that you no longer wish to be connected to her unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> Im always clear that my life is separate from his. I'm always neutral. Neutral has saved my emotional well being on many ocassions.


That's what I plan to do and my son and I already have started a few of our own little traditions and things we do without mommy. Those will always continue and more will be added, but like I said in a previous post, the one thing that my son has really enjoyed since last summer is golf. For a 7 year old he's actually really good at it and loves playing. If he were to call me or text me asking to go play with them, I would. I would do it for him and for me because I enjoy playing and enjoy watching him play. Luckily he only likes to play 9 hole courses so I'd only have to suck it up for an hour or two, lol. But if that makes him happy and puts a smile on his face, I'll do it.


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## Chaparral

AtMyEnd said:


> After our son was born our sex life died down quite a bit and stayed that way. There were up ticks from time to time but there was nothing really changed in the last 7 years. In the 30 years that I've known the OM he's never been a player, he's a complete homebody with zero drive to do much of anything. When the rest of our group of friends found out they were all as shocked as I was. Like I said in a previous post, they hid the affair in the best place possible, in plain site. No one ever noticed anything out of the ordinary


She lost her love at least as far back as after your son was born. She may have been having sex with you to get pregnant and then withdrew. That she didn’t have another child is telling that at some point she just wasn’t into family except maybe for looks. 

The fact she had an affair with the person/persons she did says she liked sex. Her behavior of avoiding conflict and blameshifting is learned at home when young. Btdt. I doubt she will ever have a real relationship.

As far as your EA, being rejected definitely opens the door for affairs. That’s the slippery slope that becomes visible after it’s too late. Most women are hurt more by an emotional affair while most men are hurt more by a physical affair.

As far as her actions go now she is no doubt in denial. Thinking you’re still going to be buddies and have family time says she is delusional and maybe seen to many movies. 

How would you rate her as a mother? Your new wife, whenever that happens, won’t tolerate her family ideas anyway. I doubt you will have much to even say to her. Too much water under that bridge.

Has she made any attempt to explain why she chased these men?


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## Chaparral

What s your attorney situation? Check out dadsdivorce.com. Some states are evil when it comes to fathers in divorce. And you’re divorcing an attorney.


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## AtMyEnd

Chaparral said:


> She lost her love at least as far back as after your son was born. She may have been having sex with you to get pregnant and then withdrew. That she didn’t have another child is telling that at some point she just wasn’t into family except maybe for looks.
> 
> The fact she had an affair with the person/persons she did says she liked sex. Her behavior of avoiding conflict and blameshifting is learned at home when young. Btdt. I doubt she will ever have a real relationship.
> 
> As far as your EA, being rejected definitely opens the door for affairs. That’s the slippery slope that becomes visible after it’s too late. Most women are hurt more by an emotional affair while most men are hurt more by a physical affair.
> 
> As far as her actions go now she is no doubt in denial. Thinking you’re still going to be buddies and have family time says she is delusional and maybe seen to many movies.
> 
> How would you rate her as a mother? Your new wife, whenever that happens, won’t tolerate her family ideas anyway. I doubt you will have much to even say to her. Too much water under that bridge.
> 
> Has she made any attempt to explain why she chased these men?


Her pregnancy was a rough one and she had been on bed rest for 10 weeks prior to the birth, and she did have issues with depression after our son was born. What the doctors said and what I read at the time all said that this was normal so I didn't think much of it. Then gradually things kind of went back to normal and has pretty much been level ever since. See is a good mother, not a great mother but a good one. She works a lot, even when she's home, but she does try to make up for that by planning special things to do that our son enjoys. The issue with that is that because she plans these things, at times she then holds them over my head saying how I never plan anything. Meanwhile, I'm the one who spends the majority of the time with our son, playing games, taking him to all his sports, bike riding, golfing, picking him up from school, and pretty much everything else.

With the divorce now happening I'm both curious and worried about how his home life is going to be when he is with her. I know that he will be safe, but with her schedule and how she always seems to be working, I feel like his weeks with her are going to be spent either with babysitters or at friends houses more then actually with her.

As far as her explaining anything to me, every time anything has happened it's always the same story. "They're just a friend", "It was an unsolicited text", "I did nothing wrong" and "I'm allowed to have friends". This recent one when I found the texts of them both talking about their feelings and how much they saw each other she still claimed it was just a "friendship" and that all they did was talk and talk about the problems in their marriages. When I asked her why in one text when he asked her to talk dirty to him, and her response was to tell him to download Whatsapp and she would, she told me she was joking around, lol. She really is delusional or for whatever reason thinks I'm just a complete idiot. Either way, I'm done, the divorce is moving forward, and I'll be better off when everything's finally over and done with.


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## AtMyEnd

Chaparral said:


> What s your attorney situation? Check out dadsdivorce.com. Some states are evil when it comes to fathers in divorce. And you’re divorcing an attorney.


She wants to go through mediation, but I don't think that's going to work since both sides need to be in agreement on everything for mediation to work. I've already met with a few attorney's and discussed my options and they've all said the same thing that it's should be no problem getting 50/50 split custody of our son. And how that since she makes more then I do that I'd received child support from her, as well as alimony for about 4-5 years. They also all said that since she wants to keep the house that she would need to buy me out of it for half the current sell value, and that I'm also entitled to half of her 401k.

I know she's going to fight me on some things, but at the same time she knows that I have screenshots of all the texts messages, emails, text logs, and everything else I've found over the years. I also have a journal I've been keeping for the last two years where I've documented everything, good and bad, that's happened. That she doesn't know about, but after speaking with the attorney's, if it ever came down to having to use all of that in court, a judge would have no problem awarding me everything I'm entitled to under law.


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## AtMyEnd

Lostinthought61 said:


> Does she have any remorse...i realize lying is second nature to many lawyers, but some where in there she must still have some self respect.


So far she has shown zero remorse to anything that's happened over the years. The only thing that I've gotten was the day after confronting her we were texting and I told her how if she had an affair with some random guy it's one thing, but she did it with one of my long time friends. For the first time in all of this, she finally told me she was sorry, but that was it, and then she kept trying to defend herself and tell me that it was never physical. That day she also worked from home because she just didn't feel like going into her office, when I got home I found a lot of used tissues in almost every room in house. But still, no real sign of remorse, no face to face apology for anything, just a simple "sorry" in a text.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Sorry she was caught. She is a piece of work.


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## AtMyEnd

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Sorry she was caught. She is a piece of work.


Oh I'm not sorry she was caught, lol. After everything else that happened in the past, I knew it was going to happen again. I've had the feeling that something was going on again for a while, I was just waiting and watching for her to slip up. Like I said in a previous post, I needed that 100% concrete proof of an affair for my own piece of mind, and I got it. The one thing I do hope for in all of this is that between the divorce, the separation of all our assets, and helping our son get through all this, that something clicks in her and causes her to just take a good hard look at herself and who she's become. Yes people change over time through marriage and their careers, but the changes in her have just been bizarre. Anyone that I've spoken about all this with over the years, people who know her and us as a couple, they've all said the same thing. They've all said how irrational she's become and how self absorbed she is now. It's not who she is, or ever has been. And even though things are ending the way they are and I know that I'll be better off without her, there is still that part of me that's sad for her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

AtMyEnd said:


> And that's what I did tell her. If it's something that has to do with our son, I'll be there. Other then that, there is no "us" and no "family" anymore. *I told her that if he calls me or texts me and wants me to do something with them when it's not my week that I most likely will, because he wants me to.* One thing we always did together as a family was golf together, at 7 years old my son is surprisingly an amazing golfer. If he were to ask me to play a round with them, which for him is usually only 9 holes, I would play. I would play for him, and for me because I enjoy playing and enjoy playing with him.


Be careful that you're not keeping your son in limbo by continuing to associate with his mother in a family setting. The quicker he accepts his new family situation the happier and more stable he'll be, so don't be giving him false hope.



AtMyEnd said:


> *I also told her that if she is really truly in a bind she can call me for help and I'll see what I can do.* She is the mother of my son, we will be sharing custody, and because he's only 7 we will have to be in each other's lives for at least another 11 years. I want things to be as civil as possible for him, not for her, and I don't need her talking badly about me to him. He's still too young to really understand all of this and I don't need her trying to turn him against me.


If she gets into a bind while your son is with her the extent of your help should be taking him off her hands until she's corrected her situation. Let her boyfriends help her with everything else. If he's already with you her problems are none of your business.


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## AtMyEnd

Nucking Futs said:


> Be careful that you're not keeping your son in limbo by continuing to associate with his mother in a family setting. The quicker he accepts his new family situation the happier and more stable he'll be, so don't be giving him false hope.
> 
> 
> 
> If she gets into a bind while your son is with her the extent of your help should be taking him off her hands until she's corrected her situation. Let her boyfriends help her with everything else. If he's already with you her problems are none of your business.


Well yes, I've told her that the 3 of us doing things together from time to time is not something that's going to happen right away, but over time I'm sure it will. I know that once things really get rolling with the divorce there will be some bad blood between us for a while, but at the same time I do want to make all of this as easy on my son as possible. And yes, helping her when she's in a bind would be things like picking him up from school during her week if she's stuck or taking him during her week if she has to go away for work. But even those things I know I need to be careful of because I don't want them to become habit.


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## AtMyEnd

Ok, so really just need to vent here for a minute. Since the night I found the texts on my wife's phone confirming the affair just shy of 2 weeks ago now, I've been good, upset and angry but good. I even wasn't really that upset or even upset for that long, and the anger faded as well. I was able to tell and talk to friends about what happened with no issue and meet with an attorney with no issue. I've really been 100% solid with myself. But now she texted a little while ago about how she spoke with the mediator and is setting up an appointment for a consultation. We had talked about using a mediator because the process seems much easier, faster, and cheaper then getting individual attorney's involved. I figure I spoke with an attorney for myself so I could better understand what I'm entitled to and what my rights are, and I will sit and talk with the mediator to do the same, and make my decision on how to proceed from there.

But now it all seems to be hitting me. I don't know if it's because this is the first time since I found out about the affair that she's actually finally acknowledging everything or what, but it feels like someone just knocked the wind out me. I have no want to reconcile with her at all, she's shown me time and time again that she can't be trusted and has no respect for me or our marriage. But there's still this feeling right now of like "wow, this really is happening". As I think back over everything that's happened over the past few years, I knew that it was only a matter of time before it happened again and how from past experience I knew not to say anything or take any action until I knew 100% and had solid proof of an affair, which I did. But I guess that as much as I knew this day was going to come, there was still that small piece of me that still hoped that by some miracle, we were going to somehow work things out. I guess her finally acknowledging all of it as finally made it all real and that's what and where this feeling is coming from. I know it will pass, we'll both move on with our lives, our son will eventually adjust to everything and be fine, and that I will not only be fine, but become a better person because of all this.

I know I'll be ok, but this all just really f'ing sucks, LOL


----------



## jlg07

"The issue with that is that because she plans these things, at times she then holds them over my head saying how I never plan anything. Meanwhile, I'm the one who spends the majority of the time with our son, playing games, taking him to all his sports, bike riding, golfing, picking him up from school, and pretty much everything else."

If she tries this again, just tell her "I don't HAVE to PLAN anything -- I don't have to schedule time for my son -- I'm always there for him"

Sorry you are going through this, but sounds like you are going to have a MUCH better life once the D is done.


----------



## AtMyEnd

jlg07 said:


> "The issue with that is that because she plans these things, at times she then holds them over my head saying how I never plan anything. Meanwhile, I'm the one who spends the majority of the time with our son, playing games, taking him to all his sports, bike riding, golfing, picking him up from school, and pretty much everything else."
> 
> If she tries this again, just tell her "I don't HAVE to PLAN anything -- I don't have to schedule time for my son -- I'm always there for him"
> 
> Sorry you are going through this, but sounds like you are going to have a MUCH better life once the D is done.


I know my life will be much better once the divorce is done. But there's still that feeling and thought of how much time I've put into our marriage and all of our problems in the hopes of fixing things, and how now even though my life will be better, it just feels like I wasted so much time.


----------



## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> Ok, so really just need to vent here for a minute. Since the night I found the texts on my wife's phone confirming the affair just shy of 2 weeks ago now, I've been good, upset and angry but good. I even wasn't really that upset or even upset for that long, and the anger faded as well. I was able to tell and talk to friends about what happened with no issue and meet with an attorney with no issue. I've really been 100% solid with myself. But now she texted a little while ago about how she spoke with the mediator and is setting up an appointment for a consultation. We had talked about using a mediator because the process seems much easier, faster, and cheaper then getting individual attorney's involved. I figure I spoke with an attorney for myself so I could better understand what I'm entitled to and what my rights are, and I will sit and talk with the mediator to do the same, and make my decision on how to proceed from there.
> 
> But now it all seems to be hitting me. I don't know if it's because this is the first time since I found out about the affair that she's actually finally acknowledging everything or what, but it feels like someone just knocked the wind out me. I have no want to reconcile with her at all, she's shown me time and time again that she can't be trusted and has no respect for me or our marriage. But there's still this feeling right now of like "wow, this really is happening". As I think back over everything that's happened over the past few years, I knew that it was only a matter of time before it happened again and how from past experience I knew not to say anything or take any action until I knew 100% and had solid proof of an affair, which I did. But I guess that as much as I knew this day was going to come, there was still that small piece of me that still hoped that by some miracle, we were going to somehow work things out. I guess her finally acknowledging all of it as finally made it all real and that's what and where this feeling is coming from. I know it will pass, we'll both move on with our lives, our son will eventually adjust to everything and be fine, and that I will not only be fine, but become a better person because of all this.
> 
> I know I'll be ok, but this all just really f'ing sucks, LOL


Yeah I wondered when this was going to hit you, frankly I hoped it would not. 

Here is what is going on... There is still love that you have for her, even after everything. I get it, I had that once. I felt sad for my wife once, like you said a post or two back. 

So now it is real, but you just have to hold on tight. When you get close to this stuff, and it gets real, there is really now way to understand how you will feel. 

You feel like a fool for staying with her when you knew what had been going on. In your heart you knew she did not love you, and had zero respect for you, you knew it. But you had to be sure, you had to know that it was all real. And now it is. 

No matter what, when someone cheats on you, it hurts, it hurts everyone and it hurts a lot of people.

And you start to worry about starting over, will you find someone, bla, bla, bla...

All of this is completely normal in every way. It would be strange if you did not feel something. 

But let me assure you, when this is done and she is officially your EX, the feeling of relief that you will have is almost indescribable. It is like the world has been lifted off of your shoulders.

Just stand tall, and know that you are doing the right thing, the future is yours. 

And let me tell you from experience that when you find a woman that actually loves you, a woman that wants to be with you and truly deeply loves you... Man this is nothing better than that in the whole world...


----------



## jlg07

EVERYTHING you are feeling is normal. Don't be so hard on yourself. First, you got a great son out of the marriage, so you didn't waste all of that time. The work you put into your marriage will make sure that YOU know how to have a great relationship when you are ready to move forward, so it helped you grow. YOU are not to blame for trusting a woman you loved. SHE is to blame for taking advantage of it. She is not the woman you thought you knew -- your "image" in your head and who she really is are very different (and I can tell you know this). You WILL get better, but you will have to go through the grief and healing process. You sound like you have yourself pretty together, all things considered, and with your son, it sounds like your healing will be faster than you think...


----------



## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> Yeah I wondered when this was going to hit you, frankly I hoped it would not.
> 
> Here is what is going on... There is still love that you have for her, even after everything. I get it, I had that once. I felt sad for my wife once, like you said a post or two back.
> 
> So now it is real, but you just have to hold on tight. When you get close to this stuff, and it gets real, there is really now way to understand how you will feel.
> 
> You feel like a fool for staying with her when you knew what had been going on. In your heart you knew she did not love you, and had zero respect for you, you knew it. But you had to be sure, you had to know that it was all real. And now it is.
> 
> No matter what, when someone cheats on you, it hurts, it hurts everyone and it hurts a lot of people.
> 
> And you start to worry about starting over, will you find someone, bla, bla, bla...
> 
> All of this is completely normal in every way. It would be strange if you did not feel something.
> 
> But let me assure you, when this is done and she is officially your EX, the feeling of relief that you will have is almost indescribable. It is like the world has been lifted off of your shoulders.
> 
> Just stand tall, and know that you are doing the right thing, the future is yours.
> 
> *And let me tell you from experience that when you find a woman that actually loves you, a woman that wants to be with you and truly deeply loves you... Man this is nothing better than that in the whole world*...


And it's the part I highlighted that I think about most right now and over the past year. She too once loved me, she did for a long time, and I had no doubt in my mind that she did.


----------



## AtMyEnd

jlg07 said:


> EVERYTHING you are feeling is normal. Don't be so hard on yourself. First, you got a great son out of the marriage, so you didn't waste all of that time. The work you put into your marriage will make sure that YOU know how to have a great relationship when you are ready to move forward, so it helped you grow. YOU are not to blame for trusting a woman you loved. SHE is to blame for taking advantage of it. She is not the woman you thought you knew -- your "image" in your head and who she really is are very different (and I can tell you know this). You WILL get better, but you will have to go through the grief and healing process. You sound like you have yourself pretty together, all things considered, and with your son, it sounds like your healing will be faster than you think...


I know, and thank you. I know everything will be ok at the end, I really was just venting. It's just hard to believe that it all happened and that it's ending the way it is


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## threelittlestars

It's all water under the bridge now. I know it is not easy to invest so much but it is wise to walk now. It really is. 

Though I (think) i can see what happened and can identify with your wife a lot, I think she made some TERRIBLE decisions and hurt a goodly amount of people in the process. 

I wish you well in overcoming the shock and finality of your choice to divorce, but i agree with the others. Things will be better than they have been in a very long time. One year from now you will be a new man. And im sure you will love how things turned out.


----------



## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> And it's the part I highlighted that I think about most right now and over the past year. She too once loved me, she did for a long time, and I had no doubt in my mind that she did.


Yeah, don't hold on to that too hard. For my money, I think when this is all over and you really have time to process, you will FINALLY realize that she has not loved you for at least half of the last years of your marriage. 

And, don't get me wrong, what I am saying may hurt, but you will get over it. 

After processing my marriage, I am not sure that my Ex ever loved me. I think she saw me as good breeding stock and a good provider. 

It is obvious that you wife has not really loved you for a while, her affairs are evidence of that. When the love stopped, who knows. 

But when you are done with this, you are going to understand a great many things. Just hang in there with all of it...


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## Marc878

You can't control your kids time with her. You would be wise to let that go. You have your time and she has hers.

What you will find out is any contact will set you back and keep you bound up in this.

It's best to limit communications to text or email. Never answer phone calls. Anything not kid, D or business ignore.

Pickup/drop offs should be a 3 minute exercise with no engagement. Never allow her in your home nor go into hers.

Any relationships you have no woman is gonna want an X in the mix in any way.


----------



## ABHale

AtMyEnd said:


> As far as her career she's doing great, and I actually am very proud of her. She recently became a partner in a new firm and her career really has taken off. She's worked hard to get where she is and she does deserve it. Unfortunately she pushed aside her marriage and now has lost that in order to get where she is. Her personal life is a complete train wreck, which is something I still don't understand. Like how is it that someone who is so on point with their professional life, such an absolute mess in their personal life? All of the problems we've had over the years, her drinking and how it's gotten worse, friends hearing things here and there, and whatever else, has caused her to lose friends and for some of her friendships to decline. And know with all of this she's lost even more friends, and may lose even more as the news starts to spread, but none of that seems to matter to her. *Since I confronted her and told her we were done, she's passed comments to me about how she still what's her, myself and our son to do things together to make memories for him. How she still wants to go on family trips that we had planned together with other friends and families this summer. Like in her head, she honestly doesn't think any of this is going to effect anything in her life. It's just bizarre.*




I hope you have told her it would be a cold day in hell about this. Just plan a trip with your son tell her the morning of and go. Let her know the other families involved in the group trips don’t want her around. That the wives think she with go after their husbands next.


----------



## ABHale

AtMyEnd said:


> Her pregnancy was a rough one and she had been on bed rest for 10 weeks prior to the birth, and she did have issues with depression after our son was born. What the doctors said and what I read at the time all said that this was normal so I didn't think much of it. Then gradually things kind of went back to normal and has pretty much been level ever since. See is a good mother, not a great mother but a good one. She works a lot, even when she's home, but she does try to make up for that by planning special things to do that our son enjoys. The issue with that is that because she plans these things, at times she then holds them over my head saying how I never plan anything. Meanwhile, I'm the one who spends the majority of the time with our son, playing games, taking him to all his sports, bike riding, golfing, picking him up from school, and pretty much everything else.
> 
> With the divorce now happening I'm both curious and worried about how his home life is going to be when he is with her. I know that he will be safe, but with her schedule and how she always seems to be working, I feel like his weeks with her are going to be spent either with babysitters or at friends houses more then actually with her.
> 
> As far as her explaining anything to me, every time anything has happened it's always the same story. "They're just a friend", "It was an unsolicited text", "I did nothing wrong" and "I'm allowed to have friends". This recent one when I found the texts of them both talking about their feelings and how much they saw each other she still claimed it was just a "friendship" and that all they did was talk and talk about the problems in their marriages. When I asked her why in one text when he asked her to talk dirty to him, and her response was to tell him to download Whatsapp and she would, she told me she was joking around, lol. She really is delusional or for whatever reason thinks I'm just a complete idiot. Either way, I'm done, the divorce is moving forward, and I'll be better off when everything's finally over and done with.


Make sure you are the first one called if she needs a baby sitter in her weeks. Then keep track of it. After a period of time take her back to court for more custody of your son. 

On another note. My parents divorced when I was younger then 5. My mom ripped my dad apart every chance she got. My dad never said a harsh word about her. I went the live with my dad when I was 12.


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## DjDjani

Why don't you tell her this: I know that you banged my friend and other guys. If you want to prove to me that you didn't, do a polygraph test. Do it 3 times, so when you fail all 3 times you can't say that the test is not correct. And when she refuses, tell her that that is just a confirmation for her cheating. Go with the divorce and find some wife to be happy with.


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## AtMyEnd

Marc878 said:


> You can't control your kids time with her. You would be wise to let that go. You have your time and she has hers.
> 
> What you will find out is any contact will set you back and keep you bound up in this.
> 
> It's best to limit communications to text or email. Never answer phone calls. Anything not kid, D or business ignore.
> 
> Pickup/drop offs should be a 3 minute exercise with no engagement. Never allow her in your home nor go into hers.
> 
> Any relationships you have no woman is gonna want an X in the mix in any way.


Well that's the funny part, it's her that wants to still have time together with the 3 of us as a "family". One of the first things she said to me after I confronted her and told her it was over was how she still wanted to make memories together of the 3 of us for the sake of our son. That was when I told her that in time yes, we may get together to play a round of golf together or even go to dinner together every now and then, but that for right now, the days of us doing things as a "family" are over


----------



## AtMyEnd

ABHale said:


> [/B]
> 
> I hope you have told her it would be a cold day in hell about this. Just plan a trip with your son tell her the morning of and go. Let her know the other families involved in the group trips don’t want her around. That the wives think she with go after their husbands next.


Funny you say that. We had a camping trip planned in August with all of our friends and their families. After I confronted her and told her it was over she texted me saying that she still wanted the camping trip to happen so our son could be with his friends and have fun. I told her that I still planned on taking him camping but that I didn't think it would be a good idea if she came. When she asked me why, I told her that I don't know how comfortable she would be being around everyone for 4 days after what happened. Her response was "What, you plan on airing our dirty laundry to everyone?". I told her how what she did, she did within a close group of long time friends and that whether I said anything or not that eventually people will find out. I told her that she's still more then welcome to go but I still don't think it's a good idea. She honestly thinks in her warped little mind that nothing is going to change with how the group of friends think of her.


----------



## AtMyEnd

ABHale said:


> Make sure you are the first one called if she needs a baby sitter in her weeks. Then keep track of it. After a period of time take her back to court for more custody of your son.
> 
> On another note. My parents divorced when I was younger then 5. My mom ripped my dad apart every chance she got. My dad never said a harsh word about her. I went the live with my dad when I was 12.


Well I have been documenting everything over the last 2 years. I've been documenting more of the little things since I've confronted her, like all the times she shows up late or leaves early from our sons sports games, or all the times she's not home after work, or comes home late smelling like alcohol, things like that. All the little things that I can use as leverage


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> ABHale said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you are the first one called if she needs a baby sitter in her weeks. Then keep track of it. After a period of time take her back to court for more custody of your son.
> 
> On another note. My parents divorced when I was younger then 5. My mom ripped my dad apart every chance she got. My dad never said a harsh word about her. I went the live with my dad when I was 12.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have been documenting everything over the last 2 years. I've been documenting more of the little things since I've confronted her, like all the times she shows up late or leaves early from our sons sports games, or all the times she's not home after work, or comes home late smelling like alcohol, things like that. All the little things that I can use as leverage
Click to expand...

I documented everything like a hawk. Handed over to the Friend of the Court and the response was oh that's nice. Now tell us why should really have more than 50%? I found out if the answer was anything short of stbxw sticking a needle in their arms or f'ng other man in front of them ... It was going to be 50/50 no matter what. 

You'll need to measure what you are willing to exhaust in money, time and mental strength in order to go to war with stbxw over custody. In a lot of cases it may be better to get things moving quickly and do 50/50 and wait for her to fail in her own. If she doesn't then it's not actually a bad thing as it would mean they have a good mom. Crappy person and wife but good mom. 

Friend of the court didn't care about affair, her distractions or that I was the primary parent. They just wanted to know if stbxw could out roof over their head, food on the table and clothes on their backs.


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## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> I documented everything like a hawk. Handed over to the Friend of the Court and the response was oh that's nice. Now tell us why should really have more than 50%? I found out if the answer was anything short of stbxw sticking a needle in their arms or f'ng other man in front of them ... It was going to be 50/50 no matter what.
> 
> You'll need to measure what you are willing to exhaust in money, time and mental strength in order to go to war with stbxw over custody. In a lot of cases it may be better to get things moving quickly and do 50/50 and wait for her to fail in her own. If she doesn't then it's not actually a bad thing as it would mean they have a good mom. Crappy person and wife but good mom.
> 
> Friend of the court didn't care about affair, her distractions or that I was the primary parent. They just wanted to know if stbxw could out roof over their head, food on the table and clothes on their backs.


The documentation is more for leverage then anything else, for two reasons. One, all the times she's late coming home from work, or has a work event, out with friends during the week, or late for or completely misses one of our sons events, will make a difference if she tries to go for full custody which she has already mentioned. Even with split custody she would need to radically change how she lives with me not being around to pick up the slack. The second reason is pretty simple, since we are getting divorced and because of what happened to cause that, she has now lost my entire family and probably 90% of her friends. All she has is her parents and one uncle, who all live in another country. Through all of our problems over the years she has still not told them about any of it. If her parents were to find out the truth, and the whole story leading up to our divorce and what ultimately caused our divorce, their relationship would be much different for a while as well. If she wants to fight me on things I'll tell her straight out that I'm going to email them everything I have, journals, texts, pictures and whatever else.


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## Beach123

Being together as a family - when you're not actually together - send very confusing and mixed messages to the kids. 

If the marriage is over then act as if it's over!


----------



## Marc878

AtMyEnd said:


> Well that's the funny part, it's her that wants to still have time together with the 3 of us as a "family". One of the first things she said to me after I confronted her and told her it was over was how she still wanted to make memories together of the 3 of us for the sake of our son. That was when I told her that in time yes, we may get together to play a round of golf together or even go to dinner together every now and then, but that for right now, the days of us doing things as a "family" are over


Cake eating 101. All cheaters want this. It's up to you whether you feed her or not.


----------



## Marc878

AtMyEnd said:


> Funny you say that. We had a camping trip planned in August with all of our friends and their families. After I confronted her and told her it was over she texted me saying that she still wanted the camping trip to happen so our son could be with his friends and have fun. I told her that I still planned on taking him camping but that I didn't think it would be a good idea if she came. When she asked me why, I told her that I don't know how comfortable she would be being around everyone for 4 days after what happened. Her response was "What, you plan on airing our dirty laundry to everyone?". I told her how what she did, she did within a close group of long time friends and that whether I said anything or not that eventually people will find out. *I told her that she's still more then welcome to go but I still don't think it's a good idea. * She honestly thinks in her warped little mind that nothing is going to change with how the group of friends think of her.


Cheater script. Help hide my affair? 

You had better get used to saying no and meaning it. If you can't you'll just give her control over you.

Better wake up to reality


----------



## Beach123

She wants you to go along with this so SHE feels less guilty.

Don't help her. Besides it's very unhealthy for kids to pretend to be married when you're actually divorced.

Being reasonable and steadfast for your kids benefit - yes. Acting as if you're married - no.


----------



## jlg07

"When she asked me why, I told her that I don't know how comfortable she would be being around everyone for 4 days after what happened. Her response was "What, you plan on airing our dirty laundry to everyone?". I told her how what she did, she did within a close group of long time friends and that whether I said anything or not that eventually people will find out. I told her that she's still more then welcome to go but I still don't think it's a good idea. She honestly thinks in her warped little mind that nothing is going to change with how the group of friends think of her."

WHY haven't you exposed them? The others SHOULD be made aware of this, if for nothing more than to set the record straight when she tries to re-write your marriage history. You want the truth out there. You should tell family, friends, whatever. NO reason to keep it quiet just because she wants you to...


----------



## AtMyEnd

Beach123 said:


> Being together as a family - when you're not actually together - send very confusing and mixed messages to the kids.
> 
> If the marriage is over then act as if it's over!


That's exactly what I told her. She still seems to think that nothing is going to change. I honestly just can't wait until everything is signed and I'm out of the house and reality kicks in for her


----------



## AtMyEnd

jlg07 said:


> "When she asked me why, I told her that I don't know how comfortable she would be being around everyone for 4 days after what happened. Her response was "What, you plan on airing our dirty laundry to everyone?". I told her how what she did, she did within a close group of long time friends and that whether I said anything or not that eventually people will find out. I told her that she's still more then welcome to go but I still don't think it's a good idea. She honestly thinks in her warped little mind that nothing is going to change with how the group of friends think of her."
> 
> WHY haven't you exposed them? The others SHOULD be made aware of this, if for nothing more than to set the record straight when she tries to re-write your marriage history. You want the truth out there. You should tell family, friends, whatever. NO reason to keep it quiet just because she wants you to...


That conversation was from 2 days after I found out about the affair. Everyone in our group of friends, and then some, know what happened and with who now, and the 2 of have pretty much been outcast by everyone. It's made things a little rougher on me because of having to live with her constant attitude, but hopefully things go quick so I won't have to any longer then I need to


----------



## Beach123

Why do you think you have to be nice to her?

Why do you even listen to anything she says/asks?


Stop being so nice to her! She cheated on you! She ruined you're whole world! And now she expects you to be all happy about that? No way!!! Just stop it! 

Start being mean! I mean that sincerely!

Why haven't you packed her bag and changed the locks? Seriously, she might get the idea that you're NOT going along with her every request when you stop being so understanding of the crappy way she acts!


----------



## oldtruck

AtMyEnd said:


> As far as her career she's doing great, and I actually am very proud of her. She recently became a partner in a new firm and her career really has taken off. She's worked hard to get where she is and she does deserve it. Unfortunately she pushed aside her marriage and now has lost that in order to get where she is. Her personal life is a complete train wreck, which is something I still don't understand. Like how is it that someone who is so on point with their professional life, such an absolute mess in their personal life? All of the problems we've had over the years, her drinking and how it's gotten worse, friends hearing things here and there, and whatever else, has caused her to lose friends and for some of her friendships to decline. And know with all of this she's lost even more friends, and may lose even more as the news starts to spread, but none of that seems to matter to her. Since I confronted her and told her we were done, she's passed comments to me about how she still what's her, myself and our son to do things together to make memories for him. How she still wants to go on family trips that we had planned together with other friends and families this summer. Like in her head, she honestly doesn't think any of this is going to effect anything in her life. It's just bizarre.


I would not be doing any thing with her. She wants to be single so
let her go on all the vacations and day trips she wants, without you.


----------



## oldtruck

AtMyEnd said:


> Funny you say that. We had a camping trip planned in August with all of our friends and their families. After I confronted her and told her it was over she texted me saying that she still wanted the camping trip to happen so our son could be with his friends and have fun. I told her that I still planned on taking him camping but that I didn't think it would be a good idea if she came. When she asked me why, I told her that I don't know how comfortable she would be being around everyone for 4 days after what happened. Her response was "What, you plan on airing our dirty laundry to everyone?". I told her how what she did, she did within a close group of long time friends and that whether I said anything or not that eventually people will find out. I told her that she's still more then welcome to go but I still don't think it's a good idea. She honestly thinks in her warped little mind that nothing is going to change with how the group of friends think of her.


You should of told your WW that the planning stages are past.
The group knows about her PA and with who.


----------



## AtMyEnd

Beach123 said:


> Why do you think you have to be nice to her?
> 
> Why do you even listen to anything she says/asks?
> 
> 
> Stop being so nice to her! She cheated on you! She ruined you're whole world! And now she expects you to be all happy about that? No way!!! Just stop it!
> 
> Start being mean! I mean that sincerely!
> 
> Why haven't you packed her bag and changed the locks? Seriously, she might get the idea that you're NOT going along with her every request when you stop being so understanding of the crappy way she acts!


It's not that I'm being nice to her. Things are civil between us and I am still living in the house. Our young son doesn't know anything about all of this yet since there's no reason to upset him until things are done and I'm moving out. In my state, unless there has been some sort of physical abuse which there hasn't been, neither spouse can legally make the other one leave. I cannot afford to stay in the house myself and live comfortably and she has already said that she wants the house, which is fine with me. She will need to buy me out of my half of the house or we'll have to sell it and split the profits. I would much rather her buy me out because I would benefit much more financially then if we sold it and split the profit.

Going back to me being "nice", like I said, I'm remaining civil. I'm doing so because of our son. It's important to me that he at least sees from me that I'm not the one being mean or nasty about anything. In the past when I've said or done something that would be considered mean, she has always trying to turn it against me by telling him that "daddy's mean". So I'm not being mean, or nice, I'm just doing what I need to do to be a father. When my son isn't around it's an entirely different ballgame. I'm still not mean or nasty, but I also don't do anything to help make her life easier. It's only when my son is around or if it's something involving my son that I'll go easier and be the bigger person in all this. He's only 7, when he finally finds out what's happening, I want him to know and to have seen that daddy was not mean to mommy and that even though all this is happening that mommy and daddy do still get along, even if the reality of it is that we really don't. And besides, me doing the right thing in front of our son, and then basically ignoring her and not helping with anything when he's not around is driving her crazy and pissing her off. And I love it, LOL


----------



## AtMyEnd

oldtruck said:


> You should of told your WW that the planning stages are past.
> The group knows about her PA and with who.


Oh she knows that the "family" days are over, as soon as things are finalized. Because of our son, I will continue to do my best to do things as a family until the actual split. He doesn't know anything about all of this yet, and until things are finalized and I'm moving out, he doesn't need to know. When I told her that she was still more then welcome to come camping if she really wanted to, I knew she's not going to go. It was more to be sarcastic to the fact that she seems like she thinks nothing is going to change because of all this. Even last night, she asked me about going to some hot air balloon festival in July. I just kind of laughed at her and told her that let's see where we're at with everything by then. If for whatever reason I am still in the house then I may go, just to be with my son and have a good time with him. Hopefully by then everything is finalized and I'm out of the house, that's when the sense of "family" will be officially cut off and over.


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## Lostinthought61

have both agreed until after the divorce not to get involved with anyone ? or has that shipped left with her already.


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## Beach123

She is asking you to different things because YOU haven't sent her a clear message that it's over!

Notice you didn't just respond NO!

Tell her No to everything.


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## AtMyEnd

Beach123 said:


> She is asking you to different things because YOU haven't sent her a clear message that it's over!
> 
> Notice you didn't just respond NO!
> 
> Tell her No to everything.


She knows it's over, I have told her that, and that we are getting divorced. Every time she brings up doing something together, I tell her that we'll see where we are with everything then. If things aren't finalized yet and I am still in the house, then I look bad to my son by not doing things because he has no idea any of this is happening. Then that becomes another crutch that she can use with him how "daddy doesn't want to do things with us" I know her, and I know she would bring him into the equation if it made me look bad and her good. She's done it before, and I know she'll do it even more after the divorce.


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## AtMyEnd

Lostinthought61 said:


> have both agreed until after the divorce not to get involved with anyone ? or has that shipped left with her already.


I have told her that, but I also know that she's still texting with him, and probably others. I really don't care at this point what she does, if I catch her with him again or with someone else it's just more ammunition that I have against her to use in the divorce, with her family, and her friends.


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## Beach123

AtMyEnd said:


> She knows it's over, I have told her that, and that we are getting divorced. Every time she brings up doing something together, I tell her that we'll see where we are with everything then. If things aren't finalized yet and I am still in the house, then I look bad to my son by not doing things because he has no idea any of this is happening. Then that becomes another crutch that she can use with him how "daddy doesn't want to do things with us" I know her, and I know she would bring him into the equation if it made me look bad and her good. She's done it before, and I know she'll do it even more after the divorce.


You're doing it to yourself - ONLY because you don't simply say NO every single time!

If you're divorcing her say NO!



Your cruel - sending those mixed signals is mean of you!


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## AtMyEnd

Beach123 said:


> You're doing it to yourself - ONLY because you don't simply say NO every single time!
> 
> If you're divorcing her say NO!
> 
> 
> 
> Your cruel - sending those mixed signals is mean of you!


But I'm not sending mixed signals. I've told her we're done, that we're getting divorced, that I will not help her with anything, I rarely speak to her or even stay in the same room with her, she knows it's over.

It's common sense that when you get a divorce that the "family" element is now gone. If she's that delusional after what she did, that she thinks nothing is going to change between us or our friends, she has more issues then I thought


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## Marc878

All cheaters push the friends thing. You'll get it just like everyone else.

Then you'll get the "do it for the kids" thing. She will try and guilt trip you.


You cover your end and let her cover hers. Separately


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## AtMyEnd

Marc878 said:


> All cheaters push the friends thing. You'll get it just like everyone else.
> 
> Then you'll get the "do it for the kids" thing. She will try and guilt trip you.
> 
> 
> You cover your end and let her cover hers. Separately


That's exactly what's been going on. First she tried to play the friends card, but has now realized that since I've told my friends what happened, she's finally starting to see that she no longer has those friends. She's played the kid card by telling me how she still wants to do things together even after the divorce so that our son has memories of the 3 of us. When I told her that that wasn't going to happen it turned into how I don't care about our son. As much as I'm set in my understanding of what and how things are going to happen and be like moving forward, she still seems to think that other then me not living there anymore that not much will change. Although even that attitude I'm starting to see change from her. No matter how many times I tell her no to things that she wants me to help with or do for her, it just still seems like she just doesn't get it yet. We have an appointment with a mediator next week together, I think after that meeting everything might finally hit her, and unfortunately I think things may take a radical turn after that meeting as well. Things for the most part have been civil between us and around the house, but I believe that once she hears that I am going after everything that I'm entitled to under the law that she's going to become very angry and start to make things difficult. The couple times that things have come up since I told her we were getting divorced, she's seemed to have the attitude that I'm going to go easy on things because of our son. I'm still not going to be difficult or ask for anything unreasonable, but I am going for every last thing that I am entitled to, which will be a major hit on her.


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## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> That's exactly what's been going on. First she tried to play the friends card, but has now realized that since I've told my friends what happened, she's finally starting to see that she no longer has those friends. She's played the kid card by telling me how she still wants to do things together even after the divorce so that our son has memories of the 3 of us. When I told her that that wasn't going to happen it turned into how I don't care about our son. As much as I'm set in my understanding of what and how things are going to happen and be like moving forward, she still seems to think that other then me not living there anymore that not much will change. Although even that attitude I'm starting to see change from her. No matter how many times I tell her no to things that she wants me to help with or do for her, it just still seems like she just doesn't get it yet. We have an appointment with a mediator next week together, I think after that meeting everything might finally hit her, and unfortunately I think things may take a radical turn after that meeting as well. Things for the most part have been civil between us and around the house, but I believe that once she hears that I am going after everything that I'm entitled to under the law that she's going to become very angry and start to make things difficult. The couple times that things have come up since I told her we were getting divorced, she's seemed to have the attitude that I'm going to go easy on things because of our son. I'm still not going to be difficult or ask for anything unreasonable, but I am going for every last thing that I am entitled to, which will be a major hit on her.


In my experience I think there may be going after what your entitled to and what's fair and will help you get through this as quickly and painless as possible. 

Once I realized how cunning and at times nasty my STBXW was going to be about things, I had it in my head that I was going to go for every little thing I was entitled to but still wrote down a list of my absolute musts and deal-breakers. Then my outlier stuff. I quickly learned that the more you entrench yourself over the outlier stuff the more difficult it makes for everyone involved and the more guarded both parties will be. I knew I couldn't trust my STBXW (13 days and I won't have to type the STB anymore) but I made the decision about 2 months into the divorce that I need to figure out what's really important to me and that was, outside of at least 50/50 custody .... keeping the house and getting her out of it as quickly as possible to start my own healing. In order to do that, I would have to make sacrifices on things I kind of wanted to keep. As I laid of the gas on those things, the process started to move a lot faster.

I was also in an internal struggle on how to go on emotionally through all of this as it was still extremely difficult but I eventually found my groove there too. It wasn't being angry, it was being myself, it was even talking to her sometimes when I didn't want to talk to her at all to get agreements done and being cordial. I began to become more at peace with myself. I was the man I wanted to be, a nice guy, not Mr. Nice Guy but a good dude. I was going out with Peace, something that my kids and myself could look back on and be proud of and I did it also knowing that as soon as she is gone, I could go dark on her (not mean but dark in terms of no contact, immediately). I put everything I had into making a calendar that maps out the rest of the year so we don't have to have many conversations about the kids. It's almost summer vacation for them so I will see her for some of the dropoffs but keep my distance, it will get a lot easier when next school year starts when the pickups will be at school or at after school care.

Got off on a tangent there but the point I wanted to get it, was be honest with yourself on what you want to go for. Make your list of MUST haves but be willing to give up on minor things so that you can make the process easier on yourself.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> In my experience I think there may be going after what your entitled to and what's fair and will help you get through this as quickly and painless as possible.
> 
> Once I realized how cunning and at times nasty my STBXW was going to be about things, I had it in my head that I was going to go for every little thing I was entitled to but still wrote down a list of my absolute musts and deal-breakers. Then my outlier stuff. I quickly learned that the more you entrench yourself over the outlier stuff the more difficult it makes for everyone involved and the more guarded both parties will be. I knew I couldn't trust my STBXW (13 days and I won't have to type the STB anymore) but I made the decision about 2 months into the divorce that I need to figure out what's really important to me and that was, outside of at least 50/50 custody .... keeping the house and getting her out of it as quickly as possible to start my own healing. In order to do that, I would have to make sacrifices on things I kind of wanted to keep. As I laid of the gas on those things, the process started to move a lot faster.
> 
> I was also in an internal struggle on how to go on emotionally through all of this as it was still extremely difficult but I eventually found my groove there too. It wasn't being angry, it was being myself, it was even talking to her sometimes when I didn't want to talk to her at all to get agreements done and being cordial. I began to become more at peace with myself. I was the man I wanted to be, a nice guy, not Mr. Nice Guy but a good dude. I was going out with Peace, something that my kids and myself could look back on and be proud of and I did it also knowing that as soon as she is gone, I could go dark on her (not mean but dark in terms of no contact, immediately). I put everything I had into making a calendar that maps out the rest of the year so we don't have to have many conversations about the kids. It's almost summer vacation for them so I will see her for some of the dropoffs but keep my distance, it will get a lot easier when next school year starts when the pickups will be at school or at after school care.
> 
> Got off on a tangent there but the point I wanted to get it, was be honest with yourself on what you want to go for. Make your list of MUST haves but be willing to give up on minor things so that you can make the process easier on yourself.


Well my list is actually quite simple and nothing more then what I'm entitled to. She wants to keep the house and has said so in past arguments, so by law I'm entitled to half of the sell value as a buyout. She has passed comments in the past how I'm only entitled to half the equity, which is only true if we were to sell the house. For some reason she seems to think, or is trying to make me think, that she can buy me out of a half million dollar house for about $75,000, lol. I also want 50/50 split custody of our son, which she has already said she doesn't think is fair or healthy for him. She's trying to play that card because if we do split custody then she would need to pay me child support since she makes more money then I do. As far as custody goes, I could go for full custody if I wanted to and most likely get it because of work schedule, drinking habits, and just inappropriate behavior in general. I'm not going for full custody because I know that my son loves his mom and I don't feel it would be fair to him to be pulled away from her like that. Then there's the alimony, or maintenance. As much as I really don't need that, I will need to furnish a new apartment and the extra cash would be helpful. In my state, she would only need to pay me alimony for about 2 1/2 years, and that is something that would be very helpful to get me back on my feet again after basically leaving everything behind because of her affair. One of the big problems here is that for a long time she handled our finances and managed them extremely poorly. She ran us into some significant debt which I have since stabilized and gotten on the right track to get rid of. But because of her mismanagement of our money we don't have much savings at all.

I have invested a lot of money into our home over the 13 years we've lived there, and even more of my time maintaining it and fixing things myself as a way to save us money. If she thinks that I'm just going to say F it and basically walk away from my life for next to nothing, she has another thing coming. Everything I'm asking for is nothing more then a 50/50 split of everything, and I really don't think that's too much to ask considering that it's been her the last few years who has been caught doing what she's been doing that was ultimately the cause of our marriage ending.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> Well my list is actually quite simple and nothing more then what I'm entitled to. She wants to keep the house and has said so in past arguments, *so by law I'm entitled to half of the sell value as a buyout*. She has passed comments in the past how I'm only entitled to half the equity, which is only true if we were to sell the house. For some reason she seems to think, or is trying to make me think, that she can buy me out of a half million dollar house for about $75,000, lol. I also want 50/50 split custody of our son, which she has already said she doesn't think is fair or healthy for him. She's trying to play that card because if we do split custody then she would need to pay me child support since she makes more money then I do. As far as custody goes, I could go for full custody if I wanted to and most likely get it because of work schedule, drinking habits, and just inappropriate behavior in general. I'm not going for full custody because I know that my son loves his mom and I don't feel it would be fair to him to be pulled away from her like that. Then there's the alimony, or maintenance. As much as I really don't need that, I will need to furnish a new apartment and the extra cash would be helpful. In my state, she would only need to pay me alimony for about 2 1/2 years, and that is something that would be very helpful to get me back on my feet again after basically leaving everything behind because of her affair. One of the big problems here is that for a long time she handled our finances and managed them extremely poorly. She ran us into some significant debt which I have since stabilized and gotten on the right track to get rid of. But because of her mismanagement of our money we don't have much savings at all.
> 
> I have invested a lot of money into our home over the 13 years we've lived there, and even more of my time maintaining it and fixing things myself as a way to save us money. If she thinks that I'm just going to say F it and basically walk away from my life for next to nothing, she has another thing coming. Everything I'm asking for is nothing more then a 50/50 split of everything, and I really don't think that's too much to ask considering that it's been her the last few years who has been caught doing what she's been doing that was ultimately the cause of our marriage ending.


Sounds like a fair list of things to go for but the house things sounds odd. Where do you live? In Michigan, it's half the equity and I thought that was the norm or what made sense because if you sold the house and paid off the bank, you would be left with the difference (essentially the equity) and you would split that. So since the house is not being sold, you would still split the theoretical equity. I bought out my STBXW with this equation.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> Sounds like a fair list of things to go for but the house things sounds odd. Where do you live? In Michigan, it's half the equity and I thought that was the norm or what made sense because if you sold the house and paid off the bank, you would be left with the difference (essentially the equity) and you would split that. So since the house is not being sold, you would still split the theoretical equity. I bought out my STBXW with this equation.


I'm in New York. From the research I've done and the two attorney's I've spoken to, the split of the house works one of two ways. First, if one spouse wants to keep the house and the other spouse agrees to that, then the spouse who will be keeping the house needs to buy the other spouse out for half the value of the home. The second is that if neither spouse wants or can afford the home on their own, then the house must be sold. If the house is sold, then both spouses then split the profit of the sale.

If the buyout was only half the equity it would not be a fair split since the one spouse, in my case me, would only get $75,000 from the buyout, and she would still own a half million dollar house and the remaining half of the equity in the home.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> I'm in New York. From the research I've done and the two attorney's I've spoken to, the split of the house works one of two ways. First, if one spouse wants to keep the house and the other spouse agrees to that, then the spouse who will be keeping the house needs to buy the other spouse out for half the value of the home. The second is that if neither spouse wants or can afford the home on their own, then the house must be sold. If the house is sold, then both spouses then split the profit of the sale.
> 
> If the buyout was only half the equity it would not be a fair split since the one spouse, in my case me, would only get $75,000 from the buyout, and she would still own a half million dollar house and the remaining half of the equity in the home.


Gotcha. I guess what it comes down to is if you really want the home or not, what it means to you. For me it was the line in the sand but turns out STBXW wanted a fixer upper anyway because she was bored with a house that was only 3 years old and nothing really to do with it. She needs to stay busy or she starts getting depressed, lifelong issue.

If it comes down to the equity thing and she keeps the house I guess I would look at it less that she may own a 500K home but rather a home that the bank owns 350K of.


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## Thor

AtMyEnd said:


> I'm in New York. From the research I've done and the two attorney's I've spoken to, the split of the house works one of two ways. First, if one spouse wants to keep the house and the other spouse agrees to that, then the spouse who will be keeping the house needs to buy the other spouse out for half the value of the home. The second is that if neither spouse wants or can afford the home on their own, then the house must be sold. If the house is sold, then both spouses then split the profit of the sale.
> 
> If the buyout was only half the equity it would not be a fair split since the one spouse, in my case me, would only get $75,000 from the buyout, and she would still own a half million dollar house and the remaining half of the equity in the home.


But, in that case the old mortgage still needs to be paid somehow. You are liable for half the mortgage still. So in essence you get half the *equity* either way. However, if she buys you out then there is no realtor fee, which on a $500k house is $30k! That saves you $15k. Using your numbers it sounds like you have $150k equity in the house, so that is all you are entitled to regardless if she stays in it or if you sell the house. The numbers may shift a little bit depending on whether you want to include the costs of selling/buying in all the calculations.

I recommend you get several appraisals and have an agreement on how you reconcile the differences between them. Take the average, the middle of 3 appraisals, or something like that. Or get one appraisal and if you are both happy with it, go with it, but if one of you isn't happy, you then revert to getting 2 more and averaging them. Don't agree up front to only one appraisal.

Mediation is great for the things you agree upon. Then you let the lawyers argue about the remaining things. Don't sign anything though without your lawyer's approval, and consider waiting to sign any mediated agreement until the entire package is completed. For example you may trade off some equity in the house for more alimony (which she might like because it makes it easier for her to keep the house). Just don't be hasty to sign things!

As to her 401k, yes you are entitled to half. Now here is the complication - how do you value it? If you just take a cash payment from it into your own tax deferred account then it is a simple 50% based on some specific date (probably the date of legal separation or the filing of D papers with the court). But you can also trade this off against something else. If she wants to keep her 401k intact then you could take more value from something else, like the house. But then you have to calculate all the tax and future value implications. If you don't do the simple 50% transferred directly to your own tax deferred account (and do this carefully to be sure you don't end up taxed!!) then you will need to have a professional involved in figuring out how to valuate everything.

Her partnership may or may not be worth something to you. My guess is the lawyers have locked it up so it isn't. This is one of those things where your contributions made her success possible, so you are entitled to some of the future profits, much as if one of you owned a business then the other would be entitled to some of its value.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> Gotcha. I guess what it comes down to is if you really want the home or not, what it means to you. For me it was the line in the sand but turns out STBXW wanted a fixer upper anyway because she was bored with a house that was only 3 years old and nothing really to do with it. She needs to stay busy or she starts getting depressed, lifelong issue.
> 
> If it comes down to the equity thing and she keeps the house I guess I would look at it less that she may own a 500K home but rather a home that the bank owns 350K of.


See her big thing with the house is that we bought the house from her parents, and she basically grew up in the house. There's also the issue of all "her" dogs, lol. We had and have always had 2-3 dogs since before we even got married. As our first two started getting older and one of them started going downhill, we rescued a third, and then after the one had passed we rescued another one so we had 3. Then my oldest passed away and she felt that we needed a female in the mix to calm down the two males so we bought a female and it did calm the two males down. Then 2 days before the one male was going in to be fixed, he knocked up the female, lol.

We had agreed at the time to keep one of the pups and then one of my older dogs had to be put down because of kidney failure so I agreed we'd keep two of the pups. Now the puppies were born, there were 6 of them, and they can't be separated from the mother for 8-10 weeks so we were stuck with them for a little while. We had all the people lined up to adopt them, and it was all people we've both known for years upon years so we knew they were going to good homes. But then one day she started talking about how she couldn't give up any of them and we were now going to keep all 6 puppies, on top of already having the other two. I told her we were not keeping all of them, that I never agreed to that, and I do not want 8 dogs, but she insisted and will not get rid of any of them. My son wants nothing to do with them, and even she doesn't do much to actually take care of them, but she still insists that she's keeping all of them. 

So at this point it's fine, she can keep all of them. I'm leaving and I want nothing to do with the puppies, but because of them, she needs the house. So it'll be real easy if she really wants to fight me over the house since I'll just throw at her "Well what will you do with all your dogs if you have to move?" Honestly, she's such a trainwreck right know and everyone thinks she's crazy for wanting to keep all those dogs. But again, I don't really care since I don't and never have wanted them, and now I'm leaving, lol


----------



## BluesPower

You overall seem well prepared for all of this. 

You are way too nice but that will change when you see the real her. 

When will that happen? During the first mediation and when you give her your list. 

Then you will finally understand the woman that she is, and how actually she never really loved you the way that you think she did. 

Hold on to your hat because I assure you that you have not seen anything yet, and as much as you think you have prepared yourself, you will till be surprised...


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## Thor

Insist on getting what is rightfully yours. Be willing to let unimportant things go, but don't give stuff away for free or to avoid confrontation.

Keep all your preparations secure from her. If you have been working on spreadsheets or making notes about what the law provides for, keep those where she can't see them. I discovered my wife was snooping into all my financial calculations to see what I was going to ask for and how I was figuring those numbers.

Do the right thing. Don't be a vindictive ******* even though nobody would blame you under the circumstances. My wife had some very valuable items she inherited which could easily have been claimed was now community property, but they were family heirlooms from the last 150 years so I didn't make any claims on it. I had some tools which had been her Dad's, so I gave those back to her even though I found them useful.

Play hardball in the negotiations, because if you roll over quickly on something she will push for more and more.

Expect to be surprised at some point at how angry or emotional you get over something in the division of assets/stuff. It won't be something you can even predict ahead of time. She'll say something or do something and you'll feel your blood pressure going sky high. Maybe she'll say something about you as a father, or she'll say she wants a particular piece of furniture. Something is going to happen, so be aware it is going to happen unexpectedly, and decide now you are going to walk away to calm down.


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## Thor

Make sure when the D is finalized that you are completely off of the house. Off of the title and the old mortgage paid off. If you don't, you are still legally on the hook. If some kid falls on the ice and is permanently paralyzed, you'll be part of the lawsuit. If she stops paying the mortgage, you'll have to pay it or you'll have to declare bankruptcy. My xw refinanced the house to buy me out, and I signed off the old deed. This is something you want a lawyer to help with even if you do everything else through mediation. You want that deed to be done exactly correct. You don't want problems down the road when she is selling the house or if she gets sued for something. It is worth a few hundred $ to have a lawyer prepare the quit claim deed or whatever form is used where you live. Don't do an online legal form! You are paying the lawyer for their expertise which keeps you out of future problems, and it is well worth it.


----------



## AtMyEnd

Thor said:


> But, in that case the old mortgage still needs to be paid somehow. You are liable for half the mortgage still. So in essence you get half the *equity* either way. However, if she buys you out then there is no realtor fee, which on a $500k house is $30k! That saves you $15k. Using your numbers it sounds like you have $150k equity in the house, so that is all you are entitled to regardless if she stays in it or if you sell the house. The numbers may shift a little bit depending on whether you want to include the costs of selling/buying in all the calculations.
> 
> I recommend you get several appraisals and have an agreement on how you reconcile the differences between them. Take the average, the middle of 3 appraisals, or something like that. Or get one appraisal and if you are both happy with it, go with it, but if one of you isn't happy, you then revert to getting 2 more and averaging them. Don't agree up front to only one appraisal.
> 
> Mediation is great for the things you agree upon. Then you let the lawyers argue about the remaining things. Don't sign anything though without your lawyer's approval, and consider waiting to sign any mediated agreement until the entire package is completed. For example you may trade off some equity in the house for more alimony (which she might like because it makes it easier for her to keep the house). Just don't be hasty to sign things!
> 
> As to her 401k, yes you are entitled to half. Now here is the complication - how do you value it? If you just take a cash payment from it into your own tax deferred account then it is a simple 50% based on some specific date (probably the date of legal separation or the filing of D papers with the court). But you can also trade this off against something else. If she wants to keep her 401k intact then you could take more value from something else, like the house. But then you have to calculate all the tax and future value implications. If you don't do the simple 50% transferred directly to your own tax deferred account (and do this carefully to be sure you don't end up taxed!!) then you will need to have a professional involved in figuring out how to valuate everything.
> 
> Her partnership may or may not be worth something to you. My guess is the lawyers have locked it up so it isn't. This is one of those things where your contributions made her success possible, so you are entitled to some of the future profits, much as if one of you owned a business then the other would be entitled to some of its value.


Well the way the lawyers explained it is that if she wants to keep the house, which she does, she needs to buy me out of the house outright. Meaning that she can refinance the house for the full value taking my name off the mortgage and deed, and she would own me half the sell value. They also explained that if she does not want to buy me out then she has no choice but to sell it, and then we would split the equity after the mortgage is settled. The buy out doesn't get handled the same as a sale since she is staying.

As far as her 401k, I haven't made up my mind on that one just yet. It really depends on how everything else goes. If I get split custody with her paying child support, the 2 1/2 years of maintenance and half the value of the house, or at least a substantial settlement from the house, then I may leave the 401k alone and just use it as a leverage point. The other leverage I have on her is that all of her father's money and investments are in a joint account with her. From what the lawyers have told me, since she is named on the accounts, that half of a half of those are also something I could go after as well. Now I would never actually do that because I know it's her fathers money and he has helped us out over the years if we needed it, but it's definitely a big leverage point.

With her partnership, that's an interesting point you brought up that I hadn't thought of. One thing the lawyers brought up was how she didn't start law school until after we got married, and how I not only was the primary financial supporter while she was in law school, but I've also been paying back all of the loans as well, which is also another bargaining chip. At the end of the day if I end up with 50/50 custody with child support, alimony for the 2 1/2 years and even just the full equity in the house, I'd be happy. I'm not looking to kill her financially in all this as I know that would just end up affecting my son since he will be with her 50% of the time. We have an appointment with the mediator next week and I'll just have to see what happens there and go from there.


----------



## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> You overall seem well prepared for all of this.
> 
> You are way too nice but that will change when you see the real her.
> 
> When will that happen? During the first mediation and when you give her your list.
> 
> Then you will finally understand the woman that she is, and how actually she never really loved you the way that you think she did.
> 
> Hold on to your hat because I assure you that you have not seen anything yet, and as much as you think you have prepared yourself, you will till be surprised...


This has all been going on for so long now that yes, I have definitely done my homework, I've met with 2 separate lawyers for consultations on this so I know what I really am legally entitled to, and I met with two so I could compare what both said to see if they both said the same thing which they did. I know the real her and I know she will put up a fight, she's already gotten upset when I told her I wanted 50/50 custody of our son. But since she is a lawyer, and one of her close friends used to be a divorce mediator, she also knows legally how things work. She knows that I have physical evidence of all the affairs and then some. I know she's going to try and pull some tricks, but when I start pulling out some of the leverage points I know I have, hopefully she backs off and just makes things easy, for her own behalf. If she doesn't, then I'll get rid of the mediator, get the lawyers involved and just go after every last thing that I can.


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## Thor

Is there a mortgage on the house? Is your name on it? If so, you owe half of that amount. I think you misunderstand how much you are entitled to from the house if this is a normal situation where you two purchased the house together and both of your names are on the mortgage and title.

As far as her 401k is concerned, this is a good place to point out that she will have some big emotional attachments to certain things. Her 401k may be one of them. She may really feel it is hers, not joint. If you have your own retirement account, or if you've been lazy about saving (and especially if it has been a marital issue), she may doubly feel you have little to no moral justification to any of her 401k. Maybe it won't be the 401k, it could be the house. Be flexible and use this to your advantage. If you know the bottom line you are entitled to, that is your goal. Let her keep the 401k if she'll give more on the house. Or let her have the house if she'll give a bunch more alimony. If she feels strongly attached to something she will be likely to give up even more somewhere else.


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## AtMyEnd

Thor said:


> Is there a mortgage on the house? Is your name on it? If so, you owe half of that amount. I think you misunderstand how much you are entitled to from the house if this is a normal situation where you two purchased the house together and both of your names are on the mortgage and title.
> 
> As far as her 401k is concerned, this is a good place to point out that she will have some big emotional attachments to certain things. Her 401k may be one of them. She may really feel it is hers, not joint. If you have your own retirement account, or if you've been lazy about saving (and especially if it has been a marital issue), she may doubly feel you have little to no moral justification to any of her 401k. Maybe it won't be the 401k, it could be the house. Be flexible and use this to your advantage. If you know the bottom line you are entitled to, that is your goal. Let her keep the 401k if she'll give more on the house. Or let her have the house if she'll give a bunch more alimony. If she feels strongly attached to something she will be likely to give up even more somewhere else.


That's been my exact thinking, knowing what I'm legally entitled to and what I can also use as leverage in case she doesn't want to budge on something. Like I had said, at the end of the day I'd be happy with just the equity already in the house. I'll take that, take my name off everything and over time she'll regain the equity in the house. My biggest bargaining chips with the house is that it was her parents house and she did grow up there so there is that emotional connection to it, and she also needs the house because of the 8 dogs she now has and refuses to part with. I mean where else can she go with 8 friggin' dogs? LOL. Our yard is already completely set up for them with a pen, a run, and a new fence. She would never be able to rent a place with them if we were to sell the house, and even the expense of having to set up a yard properly at a new house would be costly. But again, our consultation appointment with the mediator is next week, I'll see what happens with that and go from there. I already have everything in place with my choice of two good divorce attorney's that I've already had consultations with, I have my financing for an attorney in place if I need it, and I have everything else in place already in case things get ugly and I just can't stand to be in the house anymore. As well as apartment complexes that I have already looked at and looked into that are within my budget now, without any of the support payments from the divorce. I'm ready for whatever gets thrown at me right now, and I just have to see how it goes moving forward.


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## dubsey

yeah, you've misunderstood what you'll be getting out of the house. If you sell, or she buys you out, you'll get whatever the value of the house is, minus the outstanding mortgage, cut in half. no more, no less.

If your home is 500k, and you have 350k remaining on the mortgage, in any scenario, you'll be splitting the 150k that you have in equity. You're not going to see 250k just because the house is valued at 500k. You only own 150k worth of the home right now. The bank owns the rest.


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## SentHereForAReason

dubsey said:


> yeah, you've misunderstood what you'll be getting out of the house. If you sell, or she buys you out, you'll get whatever the value of the house is, minus the outstanding mortgage, cut in half. no more, no less.
> 
> If your home is 500k, and you have 350k remaining on the mortgage, in any scenario, you'll be splitting the 150k that you have in equity. You're not going to see 250k just because the house is valued at 500k. You only own 150k worth of the home right now. The bank owns the rest.


There may be some odd New York law that entitles him to the 250K in terms of what's on the books for law but I think what we are all getting at, is that I highly doubt that stands up in court and in NO way will her legal team agree to that.


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## dubsey

The only way there can be a law like that, is if he agreed to continue to be responsible for half of the mortgage, otherwise, they'd be intentionally putting someone underwater. the bank holding the note would never agree to let him off of the note.


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## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> Gotcha. I guess what it comes down to is if you really want the home or not, what it means to you. For me it was the line in the sand but turns out STBXW wanted a fixer upper anyway because she was bored with a house that was only 3 years old and nothing really to do with it. She needs to stay busy or she starts getting depressed, lifelong issue.
> 
> If it comes down to the equity thing and she keeps the house I guess I would look at it less that she may own a 500K home but rather a home that the bank owns 350K of.


That's the thing, and something that she doesn't really know, that I don't want the house. I didn't want this house in the first place, but it was her parents house and her dad did make us a deal that no one could've refused. It was an outright sale, but at a very good price. The only reason we have as big of a mortgage as we do right now is because years ago we refinanced and took money out of the house to pay off some of her school loans. I had originally looked at the deal as because of the deal we got on the house, we could use that to our advantage to save, and eventually get a house that we really liked. But then between her school loans and all the debt she got us into when she was "managing" our finances, that idea pretty much died. Now I have our debt under control and almost paid off but there isn't much savings. She's always insisted on having our son go to private school, even though we live in one of the top school districts in the country, and with all the extras that she spends on each month that she feels entitled to, there isn't much left for savings. At this point I really just want to get enough out of the whole deal to start over with as little stress as possible financially.


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## AtMyEnd

dubsey said:


> The only way there can be a law like that, is if he agreed to continue to be responsible for half of the mortgage, otherwise, they'd be intentionally putting someone underwater. the bank holding the note would never agree to let him off of the note.


Our neighbor just did the same thing a few years ago when he got divorced. The whole thing goes through as a simple refinance only the other spouses name gets taken off the mortgage and the deed. His ex-wife took the full equity in the house plus another $70k that he has to pay her over a period of time, but he was able to refinance for enough to pay her off right away. The only problem that could come up is if she doesn't qualify for the mortgage on her own.


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## dubsey

I don't really want to argue this, but I'd think there was a lot more at play there than just the house.

My only purpose here is to give you some perspective - I'd be shocked if you got half of the value of a home that you don't actually own. You'll end up with half of the value of the part of the home that you do own, unless other agreements are made - like, she gives you full value of current equity of the home assuming she can refi, in lieu of touching her 401K to avoid penalties, or some such like that.


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## BluesPower

dubsey said:


> I don't really want to argue this, but I'd think there was a lot more at play there than just the house.
> 
> My only purpose here is to give you some perspective - I'd be shocked if you got half of the value of a home that you don't actually own. You'll end up with half of the value of the part of the home that you do own, unless other agreements are made - like, she gives you full value of current equity of the home assuming she can refi, in lieu of touching her 401K to avoid penalties, or some such like that.


I don't think that you are thinking about this correctly. @dubsey, let's say the house was bought for 500K. They owe 350K on it. 

Now that looks like 75K to him for his half of the house. But, if an appraiser look at the house and said that it is worth 600K then his half would be 100K. 

Now they can argue the value in court, but one way for sure to find out the value is to sell it, pay off the mortgage and each take half of the profits. 

Or maybe she will just pay him out. The VALUE of the house at the time of the divorce is what determines the about of equity that he is entitled to.


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## dubsey

no, I agree, if the house appraises for more, he's due half of the equity of the home, which is exactly what I said. He's due half of what they actually own. If the home appraises for 600k, he's not due 300k, which I believe is what he was implying. He's due half of whatever equity he has in the home.


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## AtMyEnd

dubsey said:


> no, I agree, if the house appraises for more, he's due half of the equity of the home, which is exactly what I said. He's due half of what they actually own. If the home appraises for 600k, he's not due 300k, which I believe is what he was implying. He's due half of whatever equity he has in the home.


Well basically what the situation is, is this. Because of the deal I got on the house when we bought it from her parents, my mortgage is for roughly $150k less then what the house is currently worth, on the low end. We have around $150k in equity in our current mortgage, which is what my wife keeps insisting is what I'm entitled to half of. Additionally, both lawyers I've spoken to have told me that because we were already married when she started law school and I have essentially been paying all those loans, that I can push for even more then my half because of that. I've done some research and I have found that there have been cases where one spouse got more then their half because of the other spouses career, and the fact that if they had stayed married, the one spouse would've benefited much more over time because of that. Now of course that all comes down to the decision of the judge, but the possibility is there. And being how our original problems started years ago because of how much she worked and how she always put work in front of everything else, always claiming that she was doing it for us and to benefit our future. Well now for me that future she kept claiming she was building for us is over because of her affair, lies, and multiple other inappropriate relationships with other men. So yes, if I can fight a little bit and use some of the leverage points I have to get a little more from her, I will.


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## Thor

So that is a bit different. You aren't entitled to more than half the equity, but you are entitled to perhaps more than half your total net worth because there is some implied future value in her career which you helped finance.

Here in the USA, student loans belong to the individual, not the couple. So if there is a divorce then each person's student loans go with them and it is outside of the calculations of division of assets. Since you've been paying her loans it could be complicated but you might recoup some of that in division of assets.

In my state they usually assign alimony to offset having put someone through college. This would be for shorter term marriages, less than 10 years typically. The loans would go with the person but then they'd pay substantial alimony to the other so they could get career training for a number of years.

And the other compensation would be some portion of the value of any private practice or business built upon the education the person obtained during the marriage. These days most professionals have smart lawyers who create solid firewalls to prevent raiding the company in a divorce, so probably you won't be able to claim some value of her partnership.

What you're looking for is a bottom line number what the total net value is, and then half of that is yours. It doesn't matter where that money comes from. It could be the house, her 401k, alimony, motor vehicles, valuable jewelry, etc.


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## naiveonedave

the fact that they took a mortgage to pay off her student loans could be relevant IF that debt came into the marriage and not while being married.


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## AtMyEnd

naiveonedave said:


> the fact that they took a mortgage to pay off her student loans could be relevant IF that debt came into the marriage and not while being married.


That's exactly what the lawyer said. If she had started law school before we got married then I was coming into the marriage knowing the situation. The fact that she took a year off to decide if she really did want to go to law school, and got married before that decision was made, works to my benefit. When I refinanced the house years ago in order to pay off her high interest loans, I essentially almost doubled what my mortgage payment had been. And again, I'm not looking for or thinking I'm going to get that money back, but after all of the money I've spent or basically invested in her future and career, I do think I deserve a little more out of things, as do the attorney's. If I hadn't refinanced the house to do all of that, it would probably have been close to being paid off at this point and there would've been double if not more then double the equity in the house.


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## Thor

Just be careful to keep a clear distinction in your mind between what you feel you deserve and what the court is likely to say you deserve! Divorce laws have nothing to do with justice, logic, or what is moral.


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## AtMyEnd

Thor said:


> Just be careful to keep a clear distinction in your mind between what you feel you deserve and what the court is likely to say you deserve! Divorce laws have nothing to do with justice, logic, or what is moral.


Oh I know that, lol. The one thing that I kind of have going for me is that she wants to go through a mediator so we don't have to go through attorneys and court. The other thing I have in favor is everything I know about and have physical proof of, that her friends and family don't know about. Being the mediator is only there to advise us and handle the paperwork, I can try to use what I have against her as leverage to get more of what I want. If she doesn't want to agree, fine, then everyone that doesn't already know the real story finds out that she's been lying to them for years, especially her parents. To this day she has still not told her parents about anything, and I know that she will help from them through all of this, so she'll either tell them that things just haven't been working out or that I did something to cause the divorce. She knows that I have screenshots of all the texts, emails, and pics from her phone, if she wants to cause problems, all those things will find their way to her friends and parents. She'll have no one left if that happens and we'll end up having to go to court and spend more money that she really doesn't have. I'm really at a point with her that I don't care anymore. It's either she plays nice or everything comes out into the open.


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## Chaparral

You do have your evidence where there is no possibility she can search it out and find it , right? As in a bank lock box?


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## AtMyEnd

Chaparral said:


> You do have your evidence where there is no possibility she can search it out and find it , right? As in a bank lock box?


Of course I do, lol. I do still have all the screen shots on my phone, but they are also on my cloud, and backed up on 2 different zip drives that are kept at a different location other then the house. I have journals documenting everything that's gone on over the years, thing's she's done, said, everything. Those too are on separate zip drives as well, also kept away from the house.


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## 3Xnocharm

If I were you, I would for sure fight against any maintenance for her. She broke your marriage with her infidelity. I realize laws vary from state to state, but alimony isn't nearly as common any more like it used to be, especially when she can support herself financially. Screw that....


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## AtMyEnd

3Xnocharm said:


> If I were you, I would for sure fight against any maintenance for her. She broke your marriage with her infidelity. I realize laws vary from state to state, but alimony isn't nearly as common any more like it used to be, especially when she can support herself financially. Screw that....


Well in NY alimony is now considered "maintenance". It's pretty much automatically awarded to the spouse who makes less money (which is me) unless that person says they don't want it. It's also only paid out for a prescribed amount of time depending on the length of the marriage, somewhere between 15%-30% of the years married. I do plan on taking that money as well as the child support support money. I'm going for 50/50 split custody and with that, again the child support is awarded to the spouse that makes less. I think she thinks that one, I don't really know what I'm entitled to by law, but I do. And two, I think she thinks that I'm going to easy on everything, which I am not. As much as I have done things in the past that have led to some of our problems, I have been the one making an effort to try and work on things the past few years while she has done nothing except continually get caught texting with other men, being caught in lie after lie, and now getting caught actually having an affair which is the cause of the divorce. In all honesty if she had told me she wanted a divorce a year and a half ago when I had asked straight out if that's what she wanted to do, I probably would've gone as easy as I could while still looking out for my best interests. But now, after all of this, I'm going after every last thing I can get.


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## AtMyEnd

Ok so now I have a question, lol. Anyone who has been following my past threads and have read this one knows everything that's been going on over the years and that the divorce is finally happening. About a week after I found out about my wife's affair and told her our marriage was over, one of the things that kind of scared me a little was "what now?". I've been married for close to 15 years and with her for almost 18, I've been out of the dating world for a long time, lol.

When I found out about the affair and saw the texts between the two of them, I also saw texts between her and 2 other men. There have also been other things that have happened or have been said since then that point to the fact that she is currently seeing other people, which I kind of don't doubt. Now I know she's not seeing the man she got caught in the affair with since I text with his wife pretty regularly since all this happened and know that he never leaves the house and has been doing nothing except coming home from work, watching TV in the basement and falling asleep. But it is fairly clear that the chances of her seeing someone else right now are pretty good. Now granted I don't really care all that much at this point but I still think it's kind of messed up that she would be continuing this behavior during the time period between getting caught and at least our "official" separation.

Now here's the thing, I started an account on an online dating site recently. Basically I started it because I haven't been in the dating pool for so long and wanted to see what's out there, what to expect, and if I still got it, lol. Needless to say it's been fairly interesting so far with some of the women I've chatted with on the site, some good, some just outright bizarre. But two days ago I started chatting with someone, one of the first women that I initiated the conversation with, and actually really hit it off with her. As we went back and forth we both realized that we actually have a lot in common and our views on things are very similar, and I really have been enjoying chatting with her. So yesterday after noon we were talking about our plans for the night and again, she was doing something with her kids that I do do with mine and that I used to do as kid myself. When she told me, I told her how I take my son to the same place and have been going there since I was kid and I joked about how we're like the same people. She agreed and thought it was funny too, I had to go so I told her that I'd talk to her soon and left my number for her. I didn't say to call me or text me, I just left the number and figured I'd see what happened.

Well later last night she texted me. We went back and forth about how our nights were and what we were doing and it was really nice. Earlier when she had told me where she was going, I told her she should stop in somewhere because that's where I always went and I loved the place. While we were texting she told me how they didn't go there because her kids wanted to go somewhere else. So I responded to something else she had said and then told her that since she didn't end up going to the one place, that maybe I'd have to take her there sometime. I honestly couldn't believe I said that but it actually felt really good, and what made it feel even better was that she said that would be fun. Now I never said when we would go or set anything up but we chatted a little longer about other things and said goodnight.

So now the question is, am I really wrong for any of of this? Is it too soon to start dating considering I'm not officially divorced yet? I really have mixed feelings about all this since I didn't expect to meet someone and hit things off so well almost right away. I set up the account kind of as a way to prep myself for when everything with my divorce was done and I was ready to start my new life. Now I have no expectations of what will happen with this woman but we really did hit it off, and I really do want to meet her and see what happens. I guess with everything else going on this really has just taken me by surprise, but in a good way. And now I'm just rambling so I'll stop, but I would like a little feed back on all this.


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## 3Xnocharm

No, you're not wrong. I don't necessarily think its a good idea just yet, but you are not wrong. You are getting divorced, it would be different if the two of you were working toward reconciliation, of course.


----------



## Nucking Futs

AtMyEnd said:


> Ok so now I have a question, lol. Anyone who has been following my past threads and have read this one knows everything that's been going on over the years and that the divorce is finally happening. About a week after I found out about my wife's affair and told her our marriage was over, one of the things that kind of scared me a little was "what now?". I've been married for close to 15 years and with her for almost 18, I've been out of the dating world for a long time, lol.
> 
> When I found out about the affair and saw the texts between the two of them, I also saw texts between her and 2 other men. There have also been other things that have happened or have been said since then that point to the fact that she is currently seeing other people, which I kind of don't doubt. Now I know she's not seeing the man she got caught in the affair with since I text with his wife pretty regularly since all this happened and know that he never leaves the house and has been doing nothing except coming home from work, watching TV in the basement and falling asleep. But it is fairly clear that the chances of her seeing someone else right now are pretty good. Now granted I don't really care all that much at this point but I still think it's kind of messed up that she would be continuing this behavior during the time period between getting caught and at least our "official" separation.
> 
> Now here's the thing, I started an account on an online dating site recently. Basically I started it because I haven't been in the dating pool for so long and wanted to see what's out there, what to expect, and if I still got it, lol. Needless to say it's been fairly interesting so far with some of the women I've chatted with on the site, some good, some just outright bizarre. But two days ago I started chatting with someone, one of the first women that I initiated the conversation with, and actually really hit it off with her. As we went back and forth we both realized that we actually have a lot in common and our views on things are very similar, and I really have been enjoying chatting with her. So yesterday after noon we were talking about our plans for the night and again, she was doing something with her kids that I do do with mine and that I used to do as kid myself. When she told me, I told her how I take my son to the same place and have been going there since I was kid and I joked about how we're like the same people. She agreed and thought it was funny too, I had to go so I told her that I'd talk to her soon and left my number for her. I didn't say to call me or text me, I just left the number and figured I'd see what happened.
> 
> Well later last night she texted me. We went back and forth about how our nights were and what we were doing and it was really nice. Earlier when she had told me where she was going, I told her she should stop in somewhere because that's where I always went and I loved the place. While we were texting she told me how they didn't go there because her kids wanted to go somewhere else. So I responded to something else she had said and then told her that since she didn't end up going to the one place, that maybe I'd have to take her there sometime. I honestly couldn't believe I said that but it actually felt really good, and what made it feel even better was that she said that would be fun. Now I never said when we would go or set anything up but we chatted a little longer about other things and said goodnight.
> 
> So now the question is, am I really wrong for any of of this? Is it too soon to start dating considering I'm not officially divorced yet? I really have mixed feelings about all this since I didn't expect to meet someone and hit things off so well almost right away. I set up the account kind of as a way to prep myself for when everything with my divorce was done and I was ready to start my new life. Now I have no expectations of what will happen with this woman but we really did hit it off, and I really do want to meet her and see what happens. I guess with everything else going on this really has just taken me by surprise, but in a good way. And now I'm just rambling so I'll stop, but I would like a little feed back on all this.


Not wrong to date once the divorce is filed. Probably not a good idea to do it so soon but not immoral in my opinion. And of course, my opinion is the one that counts.


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## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> Ok so now I have a question, lol. Anyone who has been following my past threads and have read this one knows everything that's been going on over the years and that the divorce is finally happening. About a week after I found out about my wife's affair and told her our marriage was over, one of the things that kind of scared me a little was "what now?". I've been married for close to 15 years and with her for almost 18, I've been out of the dating world for a long time, lol.
> .
> .
> .
> 
> So now the question is, am I really wrong for any of of this? Is it too soon to start dating considering I'm not officially divorced yet? I really have mixed feelings about all this since I didn't expect to meet someone and hit things off so well almost right away. I set up the account kind of as a way to prep myself for when everything with my divorce was done and I was ready to start my new life. Now I have no expectations of what will happen with this woman but we really did hit it off, and I really do want to meet her and see what happens. I guess with everything else going on this really has just taken me by surprise, but in a good way. And now I'm just rambling so I'll stop, but I would like a little feed back on all this.


OMG you are just so cute...

OK here are the basics: 

1) So understand that it is a brave new world out there. 
2) Do not, I repeat, Do not get serious too soon. 
3) Of course it is OK to date before you divorce is final, your wife has been doing it for years. 
4) You are not the white knight for the female population of your city, and I mean it.
5) This time is about you, your needs, it is ok to be a little selfish, more in a self protective way.
6) Any woman, with any amount of drama, gets dumped immediately. 
7) It really is OK to have sex out of marriage. 
8) Many women that you meet will be leaving sexless marriages, just eat your Wheaties and take some V along, just in case...
9) If you are not feeling it, it is ok to say so. They if they are smart will do the same. 
10) You are a hot commodity, good guy, has a job, not bad looking and not crazy. 
11) Be yourself, (But not weak in any way, like some of the crap you have let go on with your STBXW.

That is about it...


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## Thor

3Xnocharm said:


> No, you're not wrong. I don't necessarily think its a good idea just yet, but you are not wrong. You are getting divorced, it would be different if the two of you were working toward reconciliation, of course.


Agreed.

Generally I think it is a bad idea to romantically date soon after a divorce. It is too easy to get into a rebound relationship. Also, during the divorce process there are risks, too. Your stbxw could potentially use your dating against you, perhaps in the child custody or maintenance issues.

On the other hand, it is good for the ego to at least have friendly interactions with new women. Just little flirty comments traded with a stranger in line at the coffee shop. Or chatting with another parent at your kids' sports event. That kind of stuff is really helpful to keep your spirits up. It is too easy to feel like a failure or to start thinking you will never meet another great partner again. You're still young, but a lot of people start thinking they're over the hill. So, just having some of these fun interactions will help keep you feeling good.

As far as online profiles, I would get rid of those until the divorce is finished.


----------



## AtMyEnd

3Xnocharm said:


> No, you're not wrong. I don't necessarily think its a good idea just yet, but you are not wrong. You are getting divorced, it would be different if the two of you were working toward reconciliation, of course.


That's been my thinking on it, that I'm not wrong but that it may not be the best of ideas just yet. My problem is that we really did hit it off really well and have a lot in common. I've told myself through all of this that I know I don't need to rush into anything and I'm not going to get into a relationship just to be in a relationship. But at the same time I do want to at least meet this woman, talk and see what happens.


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## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> OMG you are just so cute...
> 
> OK here are the basics:
> 
> 1) So understand that it is a brave new world out there.
> 2) Do not, I repeat, Do not get serious too soon.
> 3) Of course it is OK to date before you divorce is final, your wife has been doing it for years.
> 4) You are not the white knight for the female population of your city, and I mean it.
> 5) This time is about you, your needs, it is ok to be a little selfish, more in a self protective way.
> 6) Any woman, with any amount of drama, gets dumped immediately.
> 7) It really is OK to have sex out of marriage.
> 8) Many women that you meet will be leaving sexless marriages, just eat your Wheaties and take some V along, just in case...
> 9) If you are not feeling it, it is ok to say so. They if they are smart will do the same.
> 10) You are a hot commodity, good guy, has a job, not bad looking and not crazy.
> 11) Be yourself, (But not weak in any way, like some of the crap you have let go on with your STBXW.
> 
> That is about it...


Thank you, I know I'm cute, lol. I get what you're saying and it's pretty much everything I've been telling myself even before meeting this woman. I don't want to jump into anything just yet, let alone anything serious, but at the same time I feel like if there's some kind of connection somewhere with someone that I should at least explore that. If something comes of it great, if it doesn't then maybe I make a new friend out of it or just move on. I think at the very least I am going to get together with her within the next week or so and just see what happens.


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## 3Xnocharm

AtMyEnd said:


> That's been my thinking on it, that I'm not wrong but that it may not be the best of ideas just yet. My problem is that we really did hit it off really well and have a lot in common. I've told myself through all of this that I know I don't need to rush into anything and I'm not going to get into a relationship just to be in a relationship. But at the same time I do want to at least meet this woman, talk and see what happens.


Yes, its nice to have some validation that you are still a person and that there are other people out there willing to have interaction with you, lol... One thing I learned about online dating, you can hit it off with someone like crazy through messaging and even phone calls, but then meet in person and find there is zero connection. So going forward my advice would be to meet up as soon as possible... its frustrating as hell to waste three weeks or whatever of your time.


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## AtMyEnd

Thor said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Generally I think it is a bad idea to romantically date soon after a divorce. It is too easy to get into a rebound relationship. Also, during the divorce process there are risks, too. Your stbxw could potentially use your dating against you, perhaps in the child custody or maintenance issues.
> 
> On the other hand, it is good for the ego to at least have friendly interactions with new women. Just little flirty comments traded with a stranger in line at the coffee shop. Or chatting with another parent at your kids' sports event. That kind of stuff is really helpful to keep your spirits up. It is too easy to feel like a failure or to start thinking you will never meet another great partner again. You're still young, but a lot of people start thinking they're over the hill. So, just having some of these fun interactions will help keep you feeling good.
> 
> As far as online profiles, I would get rid of those until the divorce is finished.


I agree and disagree. I know that she has been seeing other people since I found out about the affair. The night I found out about the affair I also found messages with to other men as well. I know for a fact that she hasn't seen the man she had the affair with, but her behavior of being out during the week and giving the same BS excuses as to where she's been or going have been the same as before. Even last night, she was flying back from her parents house after dropping our son off to them on his break between school and camp. I talked to him yesterday and he told me they were taking her to the airport around 3, which means she probably had a 6:00 flight. The flight is an hour to an hour and a half and then figure another hour and a half after she landed to get home. I kind of expected her to be home around 10pm or so the latest, but she didn't get home until after 1am. But regardless, I don't even really care about all that anymore other then holding that information as more leverage in case I need it. I don't plan on getting romantically involved with this woman I met yet, and after talking with her, she doesn't have any plan of that either. But I do want to see what happens, it's been a long time since I've gone out with another woman, and if nothing else comes out of it, it will be a learning experience and a confidence builder.


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## AtMyEnd

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes, its nice to have some validation that you are still a person and that there are other people out there willing to have interaction with you, lol... One thing I learned about online dating, you can hit it off with someone like crazy through messaging and even phone calls, but then meet in person and find there is zero connection. So going forward my advice would be to meet up as soon as possible... its frustrating as hell to waste three weeks or whatever of your time.


I've wasted the last year and a half trying to fix my marriage, another 3 weeks wouldn't kill me, lol, but I get what you're saying. I have a lot going on already until the beginning of next week so I wouldn't be able to meet with her until then anyway, and I have to see what her schedule is with her kids too. So I'll see what happens. I'm not expecting anything, but honestly right now I feel pretty damn good.


----------



## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> I've wasted the last year and a half trying to fix my marriage, another 3 weeks wouldn't kill me, lol, but I get what you're saying. I have a lot going on already until the beginning of next week so I wouldn't be able to meet with her until then anyway, and I have to see what her schedule is with her kids too. So I'll see what happens. I'm not expecting anything, but honestly right now I feel pretty damn good.


Look, just so you keep your thinking straight, brother, you wasted more than a year and a half. 

Yeah, I know you never had CONCRETE proof, but you had enough and more than a lot of people have and they just divorce straight away. 

And, not trying to make you feel bad, but you should have been gone years ago. Just be glad you did not waste 26 years like I did...


----------



## jlg07

AtMyEnd said:


> That's been my thinking on it, that I'm not wrong but that it may not be the best of ideas just yet. My problem is that we really did hit it off really well and have a lot in common. I've told myself through all of this that I know I don't need to rush into anything and I'm not going to get into a relationship just to be in a relationship. But at the same time I do want to at least meet this woman, talk and see what happens.


I don't think there would be any harm with meeting, maybe over coffee (nothing major/romantic yet), just to see how things go, BUT you should be clear with her that you are still married/going to divorce, and things are NOT conducive to a true LTR right now. You just have to manage expectations so that she doesn't get hurt in all of this. GO and have fun -- you need it.


----------



## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> Look, just so you keep your thinking straight, brother, you wasted more than a year and a half.
> 
> Yeah, I know you never had CONCRETE proof, but you had enough and more than a lot of people have and they just divorce straight away.
> 
> And, not trying to make you feel bad, but you should have been gone years ago. Just be glad you did not waste 26 years like I did...


I know I should've been gone years ago but like I've said, I had to at least try to work things out because of our son. I knew the first time I caught her texting another man that there was more then what she said, I'm not an idiot. With that first one I kind of looked passed it because it wasn't long after she found out about my EA. I've known she's been screwing around ever since then, she's not as slick as she thinks she is, but at the same time I could never find that proof that I needed for myself. Other then just for my own piece of mind, she's very good at manipulating people. Since I found out about the affair, I've already caught her a few times and found out from friends that she's telling people that we either just drifted apart, tried to work on things but still decided to get divorced, or that she's telling people about my EA from almost 4 years ago and making it seem that it was recent and that's why we're divorcing. Every person I've heard that from I laugh and tell them the real story and even offer to show them some of the texts I have that prove it if they really don't believe me. The people who tell me that they heard it was my fault, I tell them about my EA and then everything she's done since then.

Surprisingly I think my thinking is straighter then it's been in a long time, lol. It's time for me and to make me happy again, and that's it.


----------



## AtMyEnd

jlg07 said:


> I don't think there would be any harm with meeting, maybe over coffee (nothing major/romantic yet), just to see how things go, BUT you should be clear with her that you are still married/going to divorce, and things are NOT conducive to a true LTR right now. You just have to manage expectations so that she doesn't get hurt in all of this. GO and have fun -- you need it.


That was the plan, just a couple drinks at an outside place by the water, nothing fancy at all, and then literally a walk in a park by the water. The park is always crowded so it's nothing romantic or secluded or anything like that, just two people walking and talking, that's it. She already knows my current situation and hasn't said anything about it so we'll see.


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## SentHereForAReason

AME, I see you posted the dating question on both threads but this one is the bigger one so I will put my response here.

When you look at just the single variable of dating before the marriage is legally ended, I don't see a major issue there, doesn't make you a bad guy. 

For me, my vows were to my wife but also before God. I'm not a bible thumper but in my own world between God and myself, I am very spiritual. I try to pass on the same thing to my kids, the lessons and the value, integrity, etc. Not such the bible verse stuff but the gist of how important it is to act and carry yourself a certain way.

Because of those things, even though my STBXW checked out a long time ago, had the affair, essentially leaving me for him, whether she denies that or not (she just wasn't happy/we weren't compatible after 18 years) .... I still hold my vows important before God. I still wear my ring as well. When the official day comes, which could be as early as this upcoming Monday, I will take my ring off at the end of the hearing and retire my vows as well. 

That's one aspect and my own and I don't expect anyone else to follow that but the aspect I would be careful about is this .... Being on solid footing, emotionally, physically, mentally, you name it. There will be no perfect time but there will be a good time to date. Maybe you start early and hit it off and it gets you to a good place and you are off and running. My fear would be that you set yourself up with this new interest, it falls through and because you haven't fully healed from your EX, it hurts doubly as bad and you are hesitant to get out there again. It may be too late now with the one woman (since there's already a connection there) but you may want to take things slow and give it some time before you go full bore, so you are rock solid and ready for everything that comes at you.

Once the divorce is final with me, I'll at least start to open my eyes a little more and then give it time before I dip my foot in the water, whether it be OLD, going out, etc.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> AME, I see you posted the dating question on both threads but this one is the bigger one so I will put my response here.
> 
> When you look at just the single variable of dating before the marriage is legally ended, I don't see a major issue there, doesn't make you a bad guy.
> 
> For me, my vows were to my wife but also before God. I'm not a bible thumper but in my own world between God and myself, I am very spiritual. I try to pass on the same thing to my kids, the lessons and the value, integrity, etc. Not such the bible verse stuff but the gist of how important it is to act and carry yourself a certain way.
> 
> Because of those things, even though my STBXW checked out a long time ago, had the affair, essentially leaving me for him, whether she denies that or not (she just wasn't happy/we weren't compatible after 18 years) .... I still hold my vows important before God. I still wear my ring as well. When the official day comes, which could be as early as this upcoming Monday, I will take my ring off at the end of the hearing and retire my vows as well.
> 
> That's one aspect and my own and I don't expect anyone else to follow that but the aspect I would be careful about is this .... Being on solid footing, emotionally, physically, mentally, you name it. There will be no perfect time but there will be a good time to date. Maybe you start early and hit it off and it gets you to a good place and you are off and running. My fear would be that you set yourself up with this new interest, it falls through and because you haven't fully healed from your EX, it hurts doubly as bad and you are hesitant to get out there again. It may be too late now with the one woman (since there's already a connection there) but you may want to take things slow and give it some time before you go full bore, so you are rock solid and ready for everything that comes at you.
> 
> Once the divorce is final with me, I'll at least start to open my eyes a little more and then give it time before I dip my foot in the water, whether it be OLD, going out, etc.


I do plan on taking things slow, and after talking with this other woman it's pretty clear that those are her intentions as well. I've put up with and dealt with a lot over the last few years and as much as for a while I was completely scatterbrained about pretty much everything, for the last few months I have been solid. Even when I found the texts on my wife's phone confirming the affair, I wasn't even really upset. I was shocked to see who the affair was with being that it was a friend of mine that I've known for close to 30 years, but I wasn't upset. When I confronted her about it and listened to all the lies, excuses and whatever else she told me, I never raised my voice or even tried to rationalize anything with her. As much as I never found concrete evidence of things in the past, I knew what happened, and I knew that it was only a matter of time before I did find the evidence I was looking for. And when I found what I found, I was actually a little happy about it, it was like finally finding the key to the lock that has kept me locked inside a loveless shell of a marriage to a disrespectful deceitful woman who only cares about herself.

I do appreciate you words and your outlook on things, for the longest time that was my outlook as well. I took a vow and I wanted to stick with that vow until the end because that's just the type of person I am. I may make mistakes and say the wrong things at times, but for the most part I am a man of my words and that's important to me. But after seeing everything she's done over the years, has never once shown remorse to any of it, has lied about all of it even after I showed her actual proof of things, and how seeing her behavior now and the things and patterns she still follows which all tell me that she is continuing to talk to and see other people, I'm just done. Like I said, I didn't mean to find someone, I was just testing the waters to see what was out there and to see if I still had it, and something just clicked. Whether it clicks when we actually meet, whether it lasts a day, a week, a month or longer, I have no expectation of anything.


----------



## oldshirt

From a moral and ethical standpoint, as far as I am concerned, once someone files for divorce and and the other party has been served, either once can screw the whole town or go to a Nevad brothl and party themselves into a coma like Lamar Odom. 

But from a practical, nuts and bolts standpoint, I tend to agree with the others - it is just a distraction and could potentially be used as ammunition against you. 

And you also need to keep in mind that OLD is a rough and tough world and this supposed perfect woman could be a 14 year old boy or some fat, greasy married woman with 3 screaming babies who's bored out of her mind because all of her baby daddies are out partying and chasing tail all day every day and leaving her alone at the trailer park to tend to these babies that all look different from each other. 

It's fine to get a little booster shot for the ego in the arm to let you know that there is a world out there and that you won't live the rest of your life in celibate isolation and die alone in a skid row apartment being eaten by your cats. 

But stay focused and on task here. You've said yourself she will fight you on some things. You can't afford to take your eyes off of your opponent here or you will get a sucker punch and you don't want to give the other side anything that can be used against you and don't think for one moment that they aren't looking for your dating profile online. It may not factor with the judge when push comes to shove, but she can dangle that over your head to show the kids or your circle of friends that you too have been out catting around. 

It's good for you to see that there are other women out there and that you won't be an untouchable. That may help ensure that your decisions aren't being made out of an irrational fear of dying alone. 

But you need to keep your head in the game and your eyes open and your better senses on high alert for now. 

You don't need any distractions or other complications muddying the waters any more than they already are.


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## AtMyEnd

oldshirt said:


> From a moral and ethical standpoint, as far as I am concerned, once someone files for divorce and and the other party has been served, either once can screw the whole town or go to a Nevad brothl and party themselves into a coma like Lamar Odom.
> 
> But from a practical, nuts and bolts standpoint, I tend to agree with the others - it is just a distraction and could potentially be used as ammunition against you.
> 
> And you also need to keep in mind that OLD is a rough and tough world and this supposed perfect woman could be a 14 year old boy or some fat, greasy married woman with 3 screaming babies who's bored out of her mind because all of her baby daddies are out partying and chasing tail all day every day and leaving her alone at the trailer park to tend to these babies that all look different from each other.
> 
> It's fine to get a little booster shot for the ego in the arm to let you know that there is a world out there and that you won't live the rest of your life in celibate isolation and die alone in a skid row apartment being eaten by your cats.
> 
> But stay focused and on task here. You've said yourself she will fight you on some things. You can't afford to take your eyes off of your opponent here or you will get a sucker punch and you don't want to give the other side anything that can be used against you and don't think for one moment that they aren't looking for your dating profile online. It may not factor with the judge when push comes to shove, but she can dangle that over your head to show the kids or your circle of friends that you too have been out catting around.
> 
> It's good for you to see that there are other women out there and that you won't be an untouchable. That may help ensure that your decisions aren't being made out of an irrational fear of dying alone.
> 
> But you need to keep your head in the game and your eyes open and your better senses on high alert for now.
> 
> You don't need any distractions or other complications muddying the waters any more than they already are.


I appreciate the words and advice. I do plan on keeping my head in my divorce as priority, that's what I need to do and focus on. I know and many friends have told me recently that I am a different man then I was a year ago, a much stronger one. Like I've said, I have no intention of going full bore on trying to start a relationship with anyone right now. One thing that you said that I was thinking about earlier how it may ensure my decisions aren't made out of an irrational fear, and that is a very good point. I'm not thinking of or using this woman I met as an ego booster even though it does, and I do think that that ego boost right now is a good thing considering everything I have to deal with on the flip side. And yes, she may very well be like you said, and if she is then that's it. I don't need no particularly want to be in a relationship right now. I've actually told myself that I was going to take some time and not even try to date after all this. But the reality of it is that if something happens and things click with someone, why not see where it goes? If it goes somewhere great, if it doesn't that's fine too. I've been repeatedly hurt, lied to, dismissed, disrespected, and emotionally abused for so long now that I don't even know if I have feelings anymore, lol. I mean I found out my wife was having an affair with someone I've been friends with for 27 years. Someone I've drank with, fought with and for, had countless "how are we still alive after that" moments with, he was like a brother. After everything over the years that I've dealt with, the ending of it all was that, and it never really even upset me. I didn't get mad, cry over it, throw a fit and yell, nothing. 

My focus right now is to get everything taken care of and get away from this woman once and for all, that's it. I know she's seeing someone else now, I just found out about that 30 minutes ago. She flew back from her parents last night. She wouldn't tell me her return itinerary, and I didn't really care, but I knew her parents were dropping her at the airport around 3pm yesterday. The flight home is an hour and half, and add in "airport" time, but she didn't get home until 1am. When I was home a little while ago I looked at the camera footage on my surveillance system. At 12;45am a car pulled in my driveway, her and the driver got out, he got her bag from the trunk, they met at the front of the car and talked for a few minutes, then he put his arms around her waist and they talked some more, and then they kissed goodnight, and not just a peck. So if she wants to try and hold me having a dating profile which was started 3 weeks after me catching her in another affair over my head....that's fine. She can do that all day long if she wants, because now I have the footage from last night, all the texts and messages from the affair, recent texts between her and 2 different men, the texts from her two previous "inappropriate" relationships, as well as video footage and audio recordings of several other incidents that have occurred over the years.

My head is finally straight and my focus is locked on what I need to do. But like I said, thank you for the words and advice, and trust me, if I lose focus and screw something up for myself I'll be the first one to come back here and admit that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> I appreciate the words and advice. I do plan on keeping my head in my divorce as priority, that's what I need to do and focus on. I know and many friends have told me recently that I am a different man then I was a year ago, a much stronger one. Like I've said, I have no intention of going full bore on trying to start a relationship with anyone right now. One thing that you said that I was thinking about earlier how it may ensure my decisions aren't made out of an irrational fear, and that is a very good point. I'm not thinking of or using this woman I met as an ego booster even though it does, and I do think that that ego boost right now is a good thing considering everything I have to deal with on the flip side. And yes, she may very well be like you said, and if she is then that's it. I don't need no particularly want to be in a relationship right now. I've actually told myself that I was going to take some time and not even try to date after all this. But the reality of it is that if something happens and things click with someone, why not see where it goes? If it goes somewhere great, if it doesn't that's fine too. I've been repeatedly hurt, lied to, dismissed, disrespected, and emotionally abused for so long now that I don't even know if I have feelings anymore, lol. I mean I found out my wife was having an affair with someone I've been friends with for 27 years. Someone I've drank with, fought with and for, had countless "how are we still alive after that" moments with, he was like a brother. After everything over the years that I've dealt with, the ending of it all was that, and it never really even upset me. I didn't get mad, cry over it, throw a fit and yell, nothing.
> 
> My focus right now is to get everything taken care of and get away from this woman once and for all, that's it. I know she's seeing someone else now, I just found out about that 30 minutes ago. She flew back from her parents last night. She wouldn't tell me her return itinerary, and I didn't really care, but I knew her parents were dropping her at the airport around 3pm yesterday. The flight home is an hour and half, and add in "airport" time, but she didn't get home until 1am. When I was home a little while ago I looked at the camera footage on my surveillance system. At 12;45am a car pulled in my driveway, her and the driver got out, he got her bag from the trunk, they met at the front of the car and talked for a few minutes, then he put his arms around her waist and they talked some more, and then they kissed goodnight, and not just a peck. So if she wants to try and hold me having a dating profile which was started 3 weeks after me catching her in another affair over my head....that's fine. She can do that all day long if she wants, because now I have the footage from last night, all the texts and messages from the affair, recent texts between her and 2 different men, the texts from her two previous "inappropriate" relationships, as well as video footage and audio recordings of several other incidents that have occurred over the years.
> 
> My head is finally straight and my focus is locked on what I need to do. But like I said, thank you for the words and advice, and trust me, if I lose focus and screw something up for myself I'll be the first one to come back here and admit that.


I don't think the dating profile is a big issue but this is just my opinion about myself. I wouldn't justify having a dating profile because she is doing all this Sh&&, I would stick to what is important to me and to be beyond reproach. To go out with held head high and that I was strong enough to keep my own vows til the end. She won't care and it won't matter much to others but to me, it's more or less staying true to myself. 

Guess what I'm trying to say, is that what you are doing is far from bad but I would stay away from the, well if she thinks this is bad, look at all the stuff she is doing because we all know how that works in the real world. People with high expectations for good grades, good work and integrity don't get very many pats on the back for doing those things but when they do something wrong or borderline, they sure as Hell get the 3rd Degree ... because it's about expectations. With your STBXW, she has already gone down the path of infamy, so doing additional things won't draw much (more if any) ire.


----------



## oldshirt

AtMyEnd said:


> . So if she wants to try and hold me having a dating profile which was started 3 weeks after me catching her in another affair over my head....that's fine. She can do that all day long if she wants, because now I have the footage from last night, all the texts and messages from the affair, recent texts between her and 2 different men, the texts from her two previous "inappropriate" relationships, as well as video footage and audio recordings of several other incidents that have occurred over the years.
> 
> .


Like I said, once the paperwork is filed, either party can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned. If either my wife or I ever file, I can name a number of women that I will ask out that upcoming sat night. Or I may order a pizza and sit on the couch and watch some old classic movie on TCM. 

Additionally, assuming you live in a no-fault state, it won't matter to the court one bit how many people either of you screwed and it won't effect the outcome or settlement one iota. 

But that being said, it is just one more piece of ammo to be used against you in the mudslinging campaign with friends, relatives and coworkers. 

Once you start getting into the "She Did vs He Did" mudslinging campaign, everyone comes out looking like Jerry Springer. You might as well start throwing shoes at each other. 

I don't care if you screw every legal-aged chick in town - all the power to ya actually. But just be aware that anything and everything can and will be used against you when push starts coming to shove.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> I don't think the dating profile is a big issue but this is just my opinion about myself. I wouldn't justify having a dating profile because she is doing all this Sh&&, I would stick to what is important to me and to be beyond reproach. To go out with held head high and that I was strong enough to keep my own vows til the end. She won't care and it won't matter much to others but to me, it's more or less staying true to myself.
> 
> Guess what I'm trying to say, is that what you are doing is far from bad but I would stay away from the, well if she thinks this is bad, look at all the stuff she is doing because we all know how that works in the real world. People with high expectations for good grades, good work and integrity don't get very many pats on the back for doing those things but when they do something wrong or borderline, they sure as Hell get the 3rd Degree ... because it's about expectations. With your STBXW, she has already gone down the path of infamy, so doing additional things won't draw much (more if any) ire.


Well as of right now all I'm doing is talking and texting with this woman I met. She knows my situation and knows that I'm just working my way out of the end of a bad marriage. She has told me, and I've said the same to her, about how neither one of us are really looking to get into a relationship but if something happens, it happens. I'm not one of those people who's ever just gone out looking to get laid because I need to, that's what my right hand's for, lol.

On another note, the wife and I met with the mediator yesterday. It was just the consultation meeting but the mediator went over all the basics, took all our information and discussed the options. It was actually pretty funny to watch my wife's attitude and demeanor change as more and more about the financials came up and she started to realize just how screwed she is. She even went as far as to tell the mediator that she made $20k less then she actually does (which I corrected of course) and told the mediator that she didn't have a 401k, which she does and I also corrected. When talking about the house she kept mentioning how it was her parents house and it means a lot to her to keep it and when asked about the approximate value, she actually went higher then what it's really worth. It was almost like every point that she tried to make yesterday in her favor, was actually digging herself deeper. Then when we left she asked me what my feelings on the house were and I told her that I had to think about it. She told me she had a plan for the house and I just told her that I didn't want to talk about everything right now. She had plans to go to a concert and I had other things to do myself. I told her to go have fun at the concert and we'll talk about all this on Friday. I saw how pissed she had been getting during the meeting and I don't want to start talking about all this when one of us is already in a pissed off mood, especially being that we were on a sidewalk in front of the attorney's office. It should be interesting how things play out from here, I've already discussed everything with a different attorney, I know everything that I'm entitled to by law, and I'm going to get just that.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

AtMyEnd said:


> Well as of right now all I'm doing is talking and texting with this woman I met. She knows my situation and knows that I'm just working my way out of the end of a bad marriage. She has told me, and I've said the same to her, about how neither one of us are really looking to get into a relationship but if something happens, it happens. I'm not one of those people who's ever just gone out looking to get laid because I need to, that's what my right hand's for, lol.
> 
> On another note, the wife and I met with the mediator yesterday. It was just the consultation meeting but the mediator went over all the basics, took all our information and discussed the options. It was actually pretty funny to watch my wife's attitude and demeanor change as more and more about the financials came up and she started to realize just how screwed she is. She even went as far as to tell the mediator that she made $20k less then she actually does (which I corrected of course) and told the mediator that she didn't have a 401k, which she does and I also corrected. When talking about the house she kept mentioning how it was her parents house and it means a lot to her to keep it and when asked about the approximate value, she actually went higher then what it's really worth. It was almost like every point that she tried to make yesterday in her favor, was actually digging herself deeper. Then when we left she asked me what my feelings on the house were and I told her that I had to think about it. She told me she had a plan for the house and I just told her that I didn't want to talk about everything right now. She had plans to go to a concert and I had other things to do myself. I told her to go have fun at the concert and we'll talk about all this on Friday. I saw how pissed she had been getting during the meeting and I don't want to start talking about all this when one of us is already in a pissed off mood, especially being that we were on a sidewalk in front of the attorney's office. It should be interesting how things play out from here, I've already discussed everything with a different attorney, I know everything that I'm entitled to by law, and I'm going to get just that.


On the watering down or exaggeration of financials, that's normal for almost anyone but especially those with a little less on the integrity side. 20K must be in the 'handbook', that was the same difference for my STBXW when we met with Friend of the Court. 

Even though I still have some unresolved legal issues before we wrap this thing up (in a week or so hopefully), I can tell you that it was made easy by discussing somethings between yourselves and somethings only between the lawyers. If there is going to be a big disagreement, that goes into the lawyer pile, if you can keep it civil, talk amongst yourselves. In my case.

We are able to decide between us;
- Parenting Schedule (Once I realized there was no way in Hell I was getting more than 50%)
- Retirement
- Split of Checking/Savings
- All of the possessions in the house
- House (This was made easy since she wanted a different house anyway, she actually was sick of our house since it was only 4 years old and she needs to stay busy with home improvement projects or else she gets bored)

Still Working on with Legal;
My side business
Child Support
Alimony

Child support should be minimal on her end. She makes a heck of a lot more than me but we have some things that even it out a bit more like my additional income from side business and her providing Healthcare for kids.

I'm hoping she keeps away from my business and we won't go after Alimony. I think that's a win/win, just because it makes it so much less messier. My business could be worth nothing next year, as it is a startup and you never know but Alimony is a sure thing.

In short, if you are in heavy disagreement, I would NOT talk about with STBXW. Keeps it more civil and it's not like talking through it as this point will help.


----------



## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> On the watering down or exaggeration of financials, that's normal for almost anyone but especially those with a little less on the integrity side. 20K must be in the 'handbook', that was the same difference for my STBXW when we met with Friend of the Court.
> 
> Even though I still have some unresolved legal issues before we wrap this thing up (in a week or so hopefully), I can tell you that it was made easy by discussing somethings between yourselves and somethings only between the lawyers. If there is going to be a big disagreement, that goes into the lawyer pile, if you can keep it civil, talk amongst yourselves. In my case.
> 
> We are able to decide between us;
> - Parenting Schedule (Once I realized there was no way in Hell I was getting more than 50%)
> - Retirement
> - Split of Checking/Savings
> - All of the possessions in the house
> - House (This was made easy since she wanted a different house anyway, she actually was sick of our house since it was only 4 years old and she needs to stay busy with home improvement projects or else she gets bored)
> 
> Still Working on with Legal;
> My side business
> Child Support
> Alimony
> 
> Child support should be minimal on her end. She makes a heck of a lot more than me but we have some things that even it out a bit more like my additional income from side business and her providing Healthcare for kids.
> 
> I'm hoping she keeps away from my business and we won't go after Alimony. I think that's a win/win, just because it makes it so much less messier. My business could be worth nothing next year, as it is a startup and you never know but Alimony is a sure thing.
> 
> In short, if you are in heavy disagreement, I would NOT talk about with STBXW. Keeps it more civil and it's not like talking through it as this point will help.


After yesterday I think that a lot of it will be fairly easy, she even seemed to agree to 50/50 custody more then she did a couple weeks ago. Two of the things I know she's not happy about is that she will need to pay me alimony and child support, even with the 50/50 split. Her big thing is the house, she wants it because it was her parents house and we bought it from them, which is fine because I don't want it. But she seems to have this attitude that because it was her parents house that I have less entitlement to it then her. I guess I'll just have to wait until we talk and see what her "plan" is, lol. I know what mine is and I'm not going to budge too much on that. I will take some little trade offs here and there depending on what they are, but at the end of the day I know how much I'm entitled to and whether it's getting more of the equity in the house instead of touching her 401k, that's fine. Any way the bottom line is divided I will still end up with the same number.


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## SentHereForAReason

"But she seems to have this attitude that because it was her parents house that I have less entitlement to it then her"

Too bad 

Judges care about sentiment as much as they care about affairs and $hitty behavior. It's all about facts and figures, especially when it comes to the house.


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## AtMyEnd

stillfightingforus said:


> "But she seems to have this attitude that because it was her parents house that I have less entitlement to it then her"
> 
> Too bad
> 
> Judges care about sentiment as much as they care about affairs and $hitty behavior. It's all about facts and figures, especially when it comes to the house.


That was exactly what I was saying to myself as she was talking about it. But at the same time by saying what she did about the house, she gave up some vital information of how badly she wants it, now it just makes using some of the other little bargaining chips that I don't really care about more valuable as a way to get more out of the house. That's the beautiful thing about mediation, we don't have to follow all of the "the law says this", everything is more of a negotiation then a legal battle. While she was sitting there yesterday getting madder and madder, and showing it, I stayed nice and cool. Anytime an opinion was asked about something, she would give her opinion and go through this whole explanation, while I sat there and simply said "well that's something I need to think about". I knew all those years of playing cards would pay off some day, lol


----------



## Tobyboy

AtMyEnd said:


> That was exactly what I was saying to myself as she was talking about it. But at the same time by saying what she did about the house, she gave up some vital information of how badly she wants it, now it just makes using some of the other little bargaining chips that I don't really care about more valuable as a way to get more out of the house. That's the beautiful thing about mediation, we don't have to follow all of the "the law says this", everything is more of a negotiation then a legal battle. While she was sitting there yesterday getting madder and madder, and showing it, I stayed nice and cool. Anytime an opinion was asked about something, she would give her opinion and go through this whole explanation, while I sat there and simply said "well that's something I need to think about". I knew all those years of playing cards would pay off some day, lol


Your dealing with a very accomplished liar and cheat!!! Do you really think there’s not a motive to her “MO”? Look, this woman deceived you for a long time, right under your nose. There’s no way she’s not playing you here now, at the end, where everything is at stake.


----------



## AtMyEnd

Tobyboy said:


> Your dealing with a very accomplished liar and cheat!!! Do you really think there’s not a motive to her “MO”? Look, this woman deceived you for a long time, right under your nose. There’s no way she’s not playing you here now, at the end, where everything is at stake.


Oh, I know she's trying to play me harder then ever right now. The difference is that I'm the one that handles all the financial's, I now what we have, what we owe, and the payments for everything. She even thought she'd play slick and told me that she couldn't find our tax return from last year so that she could use "estimated" numbers. Good thing our accountant is a really good friend of mine and emailed me a copy. Any financial question that came up last night with the mediator she either lied about or said she wasn't sure about, that's when I spoke up with the exact numbers to correct anything she said. By the second time I did that I could practically see the smoke coming out of her ears, lol


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## Tobyboy

Just keep your eyes peeled, is what I’m saying. She’s a layer....er...lawyer, so she knows how to get what she wants. Have you found out who the OM’s are? Cops? 
One accusation, is all it would take to make you irrelevant in how this divorce plays out. Just saying.


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## AtMyEnd

Tobyboy said:


> Just keep your eyes peeled, is what I’m saying. She’s a layer....er...lawyer, so she knows how to get what she wants. Have you found out who the OM’s are? Cops?
> One accusation, is all it would take to make you irrelevant in how this divorce plays out. Just saying.


I know all the OM's, I've spoken to the first 2 and the one she had the affair with was a friend of mine of almost 30 years. I still haven't spoken to him but I have spoken with his wife and we've compared notes, lol. The funny thing with her is is that she's book smart but not street smart, she has little common sense or reasoning. The other interesting thing that I've learned over the years is that her worst enemy is herself, there are a lot of things that she thinks she knows about but doesn't, and no one can tell her otherwise when she's wrong. Even yesterday at the mediator, when she said something that was either a lie or completely wrong and I called her out on it, she had no defense and just huffed and stayed quiet. Even with every time I caught her and confronted her, she never had any real defense. It was always the same answers, "I did nothing wrong", "That's your opinion", or she'd just deflect or stay silent. I find it weird how someone who claims to be such a great lawyer can never seem to defend herself and her own BS, LOL


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## AtMyEnd

So here we go on this wild roller coaster called divorce. Since we met with the mediator we haven't really seen each other, then she went up to see her parents again. It's actually been nice since she really hasn't been around the last 2 weeks. Then on Friday it all started.

Friday morning I got a call from her affair partners wife telling me that my wife is reading my text messages somehow. She told me how her husband had made comments about things her and I texted about that no one else would've known about and when she asked him how he knew all that, he told her that my wife had sent him an email telling him about all of it. The OM's wife and I talked about it for a while and how none of it really matters anyway but that it's really screwed up that she's doing it and I need to find out how she's doing it. We talked about it and the only reason we could think of, of why she's spying on my messages is to try and get some kind of dirt on me that she can use to show our friends to try and make it seem that she's not the bad guy in all this. So after spending half the day between the Verizon store and the Apple store we think we figured out how she was doing it. She either got into my icloud account somehow or she had gotten a hold of my old phone and was using that. When I got home I looked for my old phone so I could wipe it clean and it was gone. There are only 3 places I would've put the phone and it wasn't in any of them, so I knew that she had taken it. I called Apple support and we took the old phone off my icloud account, activated find my phone, and put the phone in lost mode so the next time it gets turned on it locks up. I never said anything to my wife about all of this and just left it alone.

On Saturday I called Verizon to have my phone taken off the account and start my own account but because technically I'm the "owner" of the account, she's the one that has to take her phone and start a new account. She was up at her parents house because her mother had been rushed to hospital Friday morning so it really wasn't the right time to get into all of this. All I did was change the account settings so that she has limited or no access to anything. Apparently when I did that, the system sent her a text about it because she texted me asking what was going on. I told her that I had changed it and that she needs to remove her phone from the account when she gets back, and then I told her how I'd also like my old put back where it was as well. She asked what phone and what I was talking about and I told her how I knew she was reading my texts, and how her "boyfriend" sold her out so stop denying it. She continued on with how she had no idea what I was talking about and then told me how she thinks it's time I start packing my things. I told her that legally I don't have to leave yet and I will once everything is settled and signed. Then she proceeded to go on a rant about how she wants me out, how I'm tying to take advantage of her parents and trying to get a windfall from them and all kinds of other BS. I didn't respond to any of it except to say how I couldn't believe she was accusing me of all this since her parents have nothing to do with anything, and we haven't even spoken about how we're splitting everything yet. She continued on about how she wanted me out of the house and I just responded again about how I still have every legal right to be in the house and how once we settle everything and sign the papers I will leave.

Later that night I was out at a dinner for a friends bachelor party and she texted me about how I didn't water the plants she bought and again how I should just leave. I ignored the text but guessed that since she saw I didn't water the plants she bought for the house I won't be living in much longer that she was back home. After dinner and a couple drinks I left the bachelor party to go by another friends house to shoot pool. I'm not really into strip clubs, and with everything that's been going on I wanted to be out, but didn't want to "out". Around 11:00 she started texting me again about how she didn't want me in our bed and to sleep in the guestroom and just basically a rant about everything, which I just ignored. Then a little after midnight she sent a group text to me and 5 of my friends who she knew were at the bachelor party. In the text she said how she's been texting me the same thing privately but I haven't responded, how she doesn't want be in the marital bedroom, how she knows I'm out drinking and feels uncomfortable and threaten, and how if I step foot in the bedroom she will call the police on me. I responded back saying how I'm not at a bachelor party and how everyone on the text should feel free to respond however they wish. People started responding back saying how I wasn't in fact at the bachelor party, how she and everyone else knows that I'm not a threat to anyone or anything and that it's her who's more of a threat, and how everyone knows she's just saying all this to cause problems for no other reason then to try and make me look bad as a way to save face in the divorce. She responded with more of the same BS telling people how they "don't know me" to which they responded how they've known me longer then she has, about 10 years longer. This all went on for like an hour, my only other response was telling her to just stop because she's just making herself look bad. She said again how if I try to walk into the bedroom that she'd call the police and that was it. Everyone who was on the text but not with me were all texting me asking what was wrong with her and all I could say was how this is what I've been living with, lol.

I got home and slept on the couch and all was good. In the morning nothing was said about it. I continued on with my Father's Day spending most of the day just me and my son, it was great. Later in the day when we were all home she sent me a text again about how she didn't want me in the bedroom and how she'd call the police if I came in. I just ignored it again and got the guest room set up. She can make all the threats she'd like but there's still nothing she can do to make me leave except go as fast as she can and get things settled. I went out before she got back and put a few more cameras around the house, hidden in key spots, and I carry a voice recorder on at all times when I'm in the house. If she tries to make any false claims, it's just make her situation worse. It's sad that it came to this as there was no reason for it, but now at least she's shown her truest colors. I can't wait to get all this done so I can finally get out.


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## 3Xnocharm

What a piece of work she is...

Remind me/us why YOU are the one leaving the home??


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## SentHereForAReason

3Xnocharm said:


> What a piece of work she is...
> 
> Remind me/us why YOU are the one leaving the home??


He doesn't want it (they bought from her family) and is happy to take the equity in it and live in his own place.


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## AtMyEnd

3Xnocharm said:


> What a piece of work she is...
> 
> Remind me/us why YOU are the one leaving the home??


I don't want the house for one, I never really liked it in the first place. We bought the house from her parents shortly after we were married. They gave us a really good deal on it and it's in a great neighborhood close to my family and a lot of my friends. I never really liked the layout of the house and figured we would start there and eventually move, but that never happened. It's not the end of the world, but I still don't like the layout, and because of the debt she got us into years ago we never had the opportunity to do any of the renovations we talked about, and because one of our dogs accidentally got knocked up and had a litter of 6 puppies, parts of the house smell like a kennel and the backyard now needs a lot of work because they've destroyed it. I never agreed to keep any of the puppies but she refuses to get rid of any of them. But whatever, I don't like the layout, it needs a lot of work to clean it up and get it to how I would want it, and it's just easier and cheaper for me to find a place with a better layout that's already been renovated. The second reason is that as much as I could afford the mortgage, bills and upkeep, it would make things tight for me. I don't need something as big, and I'd rather find a condo or townhouse where I don't really need to worry about the upkeep and that's just much more cost effective.

One of the other reasons is that being that it was her parents house and she did grow up there, she's said when we met with the mediator that she not only wants it but how much she wants it. She knows that she would need to to refinance the house to get my name off of everything, and the rates right now are lower then our current rate so she'll probably have a lower payment. The good thing for me is that typically when an appraiser does the appraisal, when it's done as a refinance appraisal it is usually valued higher then if it were for a sale. That means that my half of the equity will be more so it works to my benefit financially. I know that if I put up a fight over the house then we would most likely end up just having to sell it since she would never agree to give it up. If we were to sell, we would end up selling for probably $75k-$100k less then we would if it were just refinanced to her name. As a refi there is more value in the house then a sale since we've never really done any renovations or upgrades to the house.

The funny thing about it is that I know that even though she makes more then I do, affording the house along with her lifestyle and spending habits is going to be tight for her as well. The possibility of her having to sell the house within a few years of the finalization of the divorce is a very real possibility. And as much as I don't wish hardship on her, it would be kind of satisfying to get my payout from the house and then see her having to sell it after the fact.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Thank you both for clarifying for me, lol! I couldn't remember and didn't want to go through all the posts. I sometimes get my threads mixed up.


----------



## AtMyEnd

3Xnocharm said:


> Thank you both for clarifying for me, lol! I couldn't remember and didn't want to go through all the posts. I sometimes get my threads mixed up.


And again, even after all her BS this weekend, I do feel great, lol. Sure it's unneeded stress but I still feel good and just can't wait to get it all over and get out. Her behavior this weekend just really solidified who she really is as a person, and by her doing what she did with the group text, now even my friends have seen proof of what I've been talking about.


----------



## Marc878

Meh, just inform everyone who her boyfriend is if you haven’t


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## AtMyEnd

Marc878 said:


> Meh, just inform everyone who her boyfriend is if you haven’t


Oh, everyone knows. The OM was one of my friends, someone in a very close knit group of friends. I talked to his wife about all this the morning after I found out. The closest friends found out about a week later. My wife, the OM's wife and myself had all agreed that as much as we were going to try to keep things quiet until the divorce was close to being finalized, just because we knew that once things got out the tension and attitude from my wife would skyrocket, when I overheard her and found out from others that she had been telling people that we were getting divorced and that the cause of the divorce was because of things that I did, I said screw it and I told everyone everything, right down to how I had an EA 3 years ago which was one of the things that added to our problems. Since then I've found out that word has spread and a lot more people know about it and the whole story.


----------



## Thor

VAR. She could easily be the kind to make false allegations against you.


----------



## AtMyEnd

Thor said:


> VAR. She could easily be the kind to make false allegations against you.


LOL, funny you say that. Since she started with all the "if you come in the bedroom I'll call the police" BS, I have been walking around the house with a VAR in my pocket. She wants me out of the house but knows that legally there's no way to get me to leave. I know she's trying to set me up, or at least was. 

After her little tantrum on Saturday night, I did sleep on the couch when I got home. In the morning my son came downstairs, jumped on me and gave me a big hug. He asked me why I slept on the couch, so I told him that the bedroom door was closed when I got home, and he said "and mommy locked it to". I change topics and spent a great father's day, just me and my son doing what we do to have fun together. During the day she had sent me a text again telling me that she didn't want me in "her" bed or she'd call the police which I didn't respond to. After dinner the 3 of us were outside and my son said something about if I was going to sleep in my bed tonight and she spoke up and said "no, daddy's going to sleep in the guest room". Immediately my son looked at her and said "why are you being mean to daddy?" to which she responded how I was sleeping there because my back was bothering me and that bed is better for my back. He wasn't really buying that I don't think but he doesn't need to really know anything just yet, if he picks up on it fine, but he doesn't need to know anything until it gets closer to the time I'm leaving.

That night he said he wanted to sleep with me, she tried to get him to sleep with her but he said no and came into the guestroom with me. He's only 7 so you never know what's going to happen with him but after I turned the lights off he became afraid of the shadows in the room. I tried to calm him down but nothing was working so I finally told him to go sleep with mommy since I know he'd be more comfortable there. I walked him in and told her how he was afraid of the shadows, I tucked him in, said goodnight and went to go back to the guestroom. He then grabbed my arm, started crying and saying how he wants to sleep with mommy and daddy. She started in with how I can't because my back was bothering me and I needed to sleep on the other bed, I agreed and after a few minutes said goodnight again and went back to the other room.

Yesterday, after the whole sleeping incident with our son, she seems to be a completely different person. She's been friendly and her attitude towards me is completely gone. She still wants me sleeping in the guestroom and that's fine, but maybe after the other night she's realized that all of her BS is being picked up by our son and he's seeing it as something that she's doing wrong. Hopefully that is the case, because as much as I don't plan on going easy on her at all in the divorce, I do want it to all go as smoothly as possible and get out of there as soon as I can.


----------



## BluesPower

AtMyEnd said:


> LOL, funny you say that. Since she started with all the "if you come in the bedroom I'll call the police" BS, I have been walking around the house with a VAR in my pocket. She wants me out of the house but knows that legally there's no way to get me to leave. I know she's trying to set me up, or at least was.
> 
> After her little tantrum on Saturday night, I did sleep on the couch when I got home. In the morning my son came downstairs, jumped on me and gave me a big hug. He asked me why I slept on the couch, so I told him that the bedroom door was closed when I got home, and he said "and mommy locked it to". I change topics and spent a great father's day, just me and my son doing what we do to have fun together. During the day she had sent me a text again telling me that she didn't want me in "her" bed or she'd call the police which I didn't respond to. After dinner the 3 of us were outside and my son said something about if I was going to sleep in my bed tonight and she spoke up and said "no, daddy's going to sleep in the guest room". Immediately my son looked at her and said "why are you being mean to daddy?" to which she responded how I was sleeping there because my back was bothering me and that bed is better for my back. He wasn't really buying that I don't think but he doesn't need to really know anything just yet, if he picks up on it fine, but he doesn't need to know anything until it gets closer to the time I'm leaving.
> 
> That night he said he wanted to sleep with me, she tried to get him to sleep with her but he said no and came into the guestroom with me. He's only 7 so you never know what's going to happen with him but after I turned the lights off he became afraid of the shadows in the room. I tried to calm him down but nothing was working so I finally told him to go sleep with mommy since I know he'd be more comfortable there. I walked him in and told her how he was afraid of the shadows, I tucked him in, said goodnight and went to go back to the guestroom. He then grabbed my arm, started crying and saying how he wants to sleep with mommy and daddy. She started in with how I can't because my back was bothering me and I needed to sleep on the other bed, I agreed and after a few minutes said goodnight again and went back to the other room.
> 
> Yesterday, after the whole sleeping incident with our son, she seems to be a completely different person. She's been friendly and her attitude towards me is completely gone. She still wants me sleeping in the guestroom and that's fine, but maybe after the other night she's realized that all of her BS is being picked up by our son and he's seeing it as something that she's doing wrong. Hopefully that is the case, because as much as I don't plan on going easy on her at all in the divorce, I do want it to all go as smoothly as possible and get out of there as soon as I can.


I predict that your wife will never admit to you or anyone else what she has done. I think she will never admit it because she cannot handle people knowing the truth, even though they already know. 

My Ex could have made her life so much easier if she had just said that she was a pos and she was sorry and she just could not do it.

People like them just cannot admit to themselves what they are...


----------



## AtMyEnd

BluesPower said:


> I predict that your wife will never admit to you or anyone else what she has done. I think she will never admit it because she cannot handle people knowing the truth, even though they already know.
> 
> My Ex could have made her life so much easier if she had just said that she was a pos and she was sorry and she just could not do it.
> 
> People like them just cannot admit to themselves what they are...


That's exactly the problem. People know what she did, and even the few people who seemed to doubt it changed their thinking when I told them that I had screenshots of everything if they really wanted to see it. Then after group text she sent out out the other night to me and a few of my friends threatening to have me arrested if I stepped foot in the bedroom, she just solidified to everyone that she's full of it, lol. One of her biggest problems in recent years is that she really has become full of herself. Everything is always about her and she can never be wrong about anything. She seems to have this perception of herself that she's perfect and can do no wrong. 

Even with the last guy I found texts from before this latest one, the texts from him were sexual and direct. Her responses were vague and none descript but they were somewhat responsive. And even when she did admit to texting with him, and flirting with him, she still stood behind her statement of "they were just some silly stupid texts, I did nothing wrong" I knew that all her BS was going to catch up with her one day, and it's clear it finally is. But the worst part of it is as reality keeps hitting her and she sees more and more how she's losing friends, family, and everything else, the only thing she can seem to do is try to make me look bad. It's getting pretty pathetic.


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## Openminded

Why would the two of you want to sleep in the same bed when you're getting a divorce?


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## AtMyEnd

Openminded said:


> Why would the two of you want to sleep in the same bed when you're getting a divorce?


Exactly, lol. Now granted we have not told our son about anything that's going on yet and we've been trying to keep things around the house and around him as normal as they've always been. For the first 3 weeks I had been sleeping in the same bed basically because she pretty much uses our guest room as her closet and her things were everywhere. I had told her that I had no problem sleeping in there and that we'd come up with some excuse to tell our why I'm sleeping in there but that she needed to clean the room up as I didn't want to touch or move her things. And much like everything else with her, she took her sweet time cleaning it up.


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## Openminded

Children always see more than their parents think. Your son very likely knows something's off, even before the bedroom change happened, and the sooner he's told the better.


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## AtMyEnd

Openminded said:


> Children always see more than their parents think. Your son very likely knows something's off, even before the bedroom change happened, and the sooner he's told the better.


Well once things are agreed on we are going to tell him. She may have very well said something to him already, and I do know that he has seen that something's different because he has made comments here and there. Personally I don't want to tell him until we at least agree on some things because I know the way she is, and she will try to use him as a pawn in an attempt to get what she wants. If my son does know more then I or we think right now that's fine and he's handling it well, which will only make the situation better when things finally happen.


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## AtMyEnd

So it's been a little while so I thought I'd post an update. After months now of basically living in hell, I'm finally moving out. Mediation is close to being done and after months of her trying every little thing she could to force me out of the house, and my attorney and mediator telling me not to leave yet, I finally got her to sign an agreement excusing me from the mortgage and any expenses of the house, and how me leaving would not negatively effect the outcome of the equitable split of our finances, custody of our son or anything else. It honestly feels like I'm about to be paroled, lol.

Over the last few months she has just been borderline textbook psycho ex-wife. The attitude, mood swings, verbal abuse and everything else have just been hell. She's threatened to call the police on me as a way to force me from the house, she's tried to set me up multiple times to have a somewhat real excuse to call the police on me, and has just gone full force putting me down and calling me names and everything else as a way to get me to leave. My attorney told me to just hang in there and deal with it unless it got really bad to the point that I actually felt like I was in danger, and the mediator pretty much told me the same thing which is why I stayed as long as I did. Finally after one of her many texting rants to me about everything going on I told her that if she wanted me to leave so badly before all this is over, draft something up excusing me from the mortgage and all the other expenses of the house, and also have it say that me leaving will have no negative impact on any settlement or custody of our son. She drafted it up, the mediator made a few changes to it and it's signed, so I can finally really start to move on with my life.

Mediation is close to being done, all that's really left is the final agreement on how the equity in the house will be split, and the actual custody schedule. Everything else was included in the agreement we signed so I could move out. Custody is going to be 50/50, all our finances with the exclusion of the equity in the house have been split, as well as any property I wanted from the house. So far things have worked out the way I wanted them to and I'm happy. Hopefully only a couple more sessions with the mediator and everything will be settled.

For anyone still at the beginning of things or in the middle of it, yes it's tough, but there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. Do your research, know the laws in your state and what you're entitled to, and just hold your ground. In the past I have been one to lose my temper fairly easily but through all this I've been able to hold it together and be the coolest I've ever been. Never raise your voice, never yell, and if your spouse insists on arguing something outside of the mediators or attorney's office just walk away.


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