# Variable desire with menstrual cycle: men, did you figure it out?



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Based on a side conversation in another thread, I thought I'd start a new one to ask this question: 

Men, do you keep track of your wife's menstrual cycle and adjust your approach to her sexually based on where she is? 

If you do, how did you figure it out? Did you ask her for input, or was it just based on your observations over the years?

I ask because I'm trying to work with the fact that the intensity of my desire and the type of sex I want changes dramatically depending on where I am. I've known for years that I'm climbing the walls horny when I ovulate, and that used to be the only time I'd have sex with my husband when we were in our ten-year "dry spell."

Our intimacy is so much better these days, but keeping my desire high and keeping sex flowing can be a challenge when I have PMS or when I'm not walking around horny 24/7. I think I have it pretty well figured out, but I know my husband is frustrated because he can't read my mind and what works with me one week will result in me shutting down towards him the next. For example, sometimes I love long drawn out foreplay, other times I just want pounded, and not touched much. 

Yes, I could direct and guide him all the time, but I'm the sort of person that loves it when HE takes charge; it makes me feel so wanted, which is a huge turn on for me. He has been excellent about figuring me out physically--he's a wonderful, talented, giving lover. But I think he is frustrated because he can't "figure me out" when it comes to my desire. I know he's connected my insatiable desire with my ovulation week . . . why hasn't he connected my cranky week with the days right before my period? I've told him that my days of rejecting him are over, and he is working to accept that and make it the new norm, but as soon as my desire seems less that enthusiastic, he gives up so easily. At some times during my cycle, my drive is completely responsive. I need him to initiate and persist. 

Men, did you get help from your wives in decoding their desire and their cycles? I don't have a problem with talking to him and helping him out, but nor do I want him to feel like I'm scrutinizing his technique. I'd just like him to be more confident in his approach to me . . . especially when he assumes that I am unapproachable, when really these are the times I need him the most.

Women, I'd love advice from you, too. Do your husbands approach sex with you with your cycle in mind, or do they use a one size fits all approach and get frustrated when it doesn't always work?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I figured it out totally on my own. My first observation back when things were good was that she got particularly excited when she would be fertile. 

I was already in tune with where she was in her cycle because every third or fourth cycle she went nuts when she got PMS. It wasn't every time, she would be just have the physical discomfort but be OK mentally. Then one of the bad ones would hit and she'd become like the stereotype of the crazy PMS woman, where everything I did was solely to make her mad. The worst is when I hurt myself and she informed me that I did it only to gain sympathy. Uh, yeah.... 

I also noticed that she went hyper-sexual a bit earlier on those same cycles. Obviously her hormones were all over the map during those. 

Later on when we were not in as good of a place what stood out was the times where she wasn't interested. At first I resented it. Mainly because it seemed that she was just looking for any reason whatsoever to reject me. What didn't help was that at the time I was loaded with resentment, and partially I was just fulfilling a sexual urge without the emotional connection. I presumed that she was doing the same; that she was so aroused in the middle she resisted the urge to always turn me down.

As things improved and her drive picked up, I really got into tune where she was and how that affected her desire and response. As I posted on the other thread, she is looking for a lot of physical comfort away from ovulation. Where it wasn't working before is that she wasn't seeking emotional comfort from me during those times because of other issues in our marriage. Without that, we just went nowhere.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I do keep track. Oddly enough I'm more aware of it than my wife is--sometimes I'll have to give her a reminder to make sure she's got her "items" in her purse when her period is approaching. 

I've tried to use that to tailor my approach, but unfortunately it hasn't really made much difference. For a while it was pretty obvious that she was MUCH more agreeable to sex just before and during her period, then pretty much non-existent the rest of her cycle. Lately, it's just been dead all month long. Ovulation has never really been a factor for her.

What makes it even trickier is that her cycle is less than reliable. Periods come a week sooner sometimes and sometimes a week late, and normally last a full week. This makes it sometimes a little difficult to gauge exactly where she is in her cycle.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Getting,
Are you saying that: At ovulation you want him to be aggressive and go 'light' on foreplay? At that time You don't like 'touch' so much?

The week before your period you want long, slow foreplay? 







GettingIt said:


> Based on a side conversation in another thread, I thought I'd start a new one to ask this question:
> 
> Men, do you keep track of your wife's menstrual cycle and adjust your approach to her sexually based on where she is?
> 
> ...


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## hjones1971 (Dec 1, 2012)

From a mans perspective(mine in particular) I've been struggling with this for 29yrs with my woman and am about at my wits end with it...She has the whole take charge thing as well and makes her feel wanted, which is great and all. The problem occurs in specific with my woman, I cant say that this is you. She doesn't reciprocate, she doesn't do anything in my own opinion to make me want her. I don't mind taking charge a lot, even most of the time. Occasionally I want her to be the little vixen, to tell me what she wants, to actually show that she wants. Guessing games are fun but you get tired of them after awhile. It doesn't make me love her any less, it just keeps me frustrated and I admit to giving up easily now and days just because 20 years of this has worn down on me and to put it plain and simple, im just to tired to fight now. So as much as I love having sex with my wife its become unimportant and if I get it then fine and if I don't then that's fine as well. Of course she doesn't understand it, the past years have pretty much trained and conditioned me. She seems to think its because I find her unattractive and don't desire her any more. Oddly enough communication between men and women vary so much. I have told her SEVERAL times word for word straight out EXACTLY what my issue is until finally I have given up and just live day to day...
I say all that to say this. Your situation is your situation and you know it FAR better than I ever could. My suggestion is that "want" and "desire" you have to be wanted and desired, reciprocate it and show it to him once in awhile. It may make a world of difference. I take my woman out to dinner a movie came home and ran a bubble bath and gave her gifts of lingerie waiting on the bed for her and gave her a message with oils and such and it was a nice evening and everything worked out.
the only time in my mind I can remember her wanting sex was when she elbowed me in the bed one night when I was trying to go to sleep and her asking me what was wrong, which turned into an argument because she refused to believe nothing was wrong...Later on I found out it was her twisted way of telling me she wanted sex.

every once in awhile, surprise him with his fav dinner and a movie, dress in some lingerie you went and picked out somewhere, make him lie back and relax while you take advantage of him. Pick some crazy place to have spontaneous sex.

I don't know that you don't do this already, just from reading your post it tells me that you rely on him to make a move and if its the right move hes rewarded and if its the wrong move...well we know the end to that


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I noticed the pattern quite a while ago (I think I mentioned this in my thread). Of course my problem is knowing what to do about it. Coming up with the magic combination that will work. In other parts of my life I'm always looking for the one method or one tool that will work in all situations. If you're into skiing then you'll know what I mean when I say I'm the skier who is always looking for the "one quiver" ski.

Problem is, that doesn't work with the wife! Based on a post on this website about 14 months ago, I downloaded a cycle app for my iphone. It's called period diary pro and I guess it's for people trying to get pregnant. She knows I track her cycle. I downloaded it to track how often we have sex. I know that rubs some people the wrong way, but I just needed to see it visually and I needed to know I had a warning system in place to alert me that we were slipping. This app has a calender and it designates days as menstrating, fertile, ovulating and "normal". Funny that the last few days of "normal" are her pms days. Anyway, at this point I know her cycle better than she does.

Using the app is how I figured out that her responsiveness and hornyness seemed to track her cycle. She'll do it, but she's not really hot on her "normal" days. She's hottest from the last 2 days of her period through ovulation. She's not as hot on ovulation day as she is 2 days after her period ends. It's weird that I know all this stuff, I know.

But I don't know what to do with it.

How do you approach differently on one day vs the other. The app has a comments section where I could note the initiation technique and the result so that I could figure out what works over time. Maybe I should do that. But TBH, even I think that's a little over the top.

Still looking for the one-quiver ski even though I know it probably doesn't exist. If it floats in the powder, it's going to rattle on the ice.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Getting,
> Are you saying that: At ovulation you want him to be aggressive and go 'light' on foreplay? At that time You don't like 'touch' so much?
> 
> The week before your period you want long, slow foreplay?


In general, yes. I don't need much of a warm up during ovulation so the whole soft and slow approach can make me impatient. On the other hand, when I'm PMS'ing in the days leading up to my period, I want the comfort and the loving and need the body massage and the cuddling and the talking to get me going. Jump right in by squeezing my boob or putting your hand down my pants and I get irritated. When I get irritated, he can tell, and gives up, and then I'm frustrated and sad because I need him so much.

I don't want it to sound like I'm a high maintenance b*tch and that he has to read my mind. It's just that we have such a fraught history with sex that we both have issues that make us gun shy. Taking the guess work out of how to approach me would help him. He's an engineer. Once he figures out how I work, he'll be on it. It's just the figuring out part . . .


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I figured it out totally on my own. My first observation back when things were good was that she got particularly excited when she would be fertile.
> 
> I was already in tune with where she was in her cycle because every third or fourth cycle she went nuts when she got PMS. It wasn't every time, she would be just have the physical discomfort but be OK mentally. Then one of the bad ones would hit and she'd become like the stereotype of the crazy PMS woman, where everything I did was solely to make her mad. The worst is when I hurt myself and she informed me that I did it only to gain sympathy. Uh, yeah....


Was she always like this? I ask because I've noticed my PMS is much worse lately. I don't know if its my age (43) or because I went of BC pills last year, but sometimes I am so incredibly irritable that I start to avoid my husband because everything he does annoys me. He notices the avoidance, assumes he's done something wrong, and starts to dog me about it. He'll follow me around and just sort of BE THERE waiting for me to say something. Or he'll check with me incessantly to see if "anything is wrong." He can't seem to accept that I can be in a sh*tty mood and it has nothing to do with him. Honestly, I just need to be left entirely alone for those two or three days because, yes, if he hurt himself I'd probably be annoyed at his "bid for attention." 



larry.gray said:


> I also noticed that she went hyper-sexual a bit earlier on those same cycles. Obviously her hormones were all over the map during those.


THIS I find super interesting. My PMS this cycle was terrible, I have my period now and feel normal and happy. When ovulation rolls around next week, I'll have to see if my desire is even more intense that usual. I hope it is so I can really make up for my crappy mood this past week. 



larry.gray said:


> Later on when we were not in as good of a place what stood out was the times where she wasn't interested. At first I resented it. Mainly because it seemed that she was just looking for any reason whatsoever to reject me. What didn't help was that at the time I was loaded with resentment, and partially I was just fulfilling a sexual urge without the emotional connection. I presumed that she was doing the same; that she was so aroused in the middle she resisted the urge to always turn me down.
> 
> As things improved and her drive picked up, I really got into tune where she was and how that affected her desire and response. As I posted on the other thread, she is looking for a lot of physical comfort away from ovulation. Where it wasn't working before is that she wasn't seeking emotional comfort from me during those times because of other issues in our marriage. Without that, we just went nowhere.


Yeah, our sex was the same for those ten years. My husband would get mad at himself, I think, for giving in when my desire kicked in once a month. He always said it would be easier to have none at all than have sex twice a month.  But he also said that the fact that I still felt desire and could enjoy sex gave him hope. I will be eternally grateful that he stuck those years out. We're not without our scars from that time, but we are working on it and seeing definite progress.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I do keep track. Oddly enough I'm more aware of it than my wife is--sometimes I'll have to give her a reminder to make sure she's got her "items" in her purse when her period is approaching.
> 
> I've tried to use that to tailor my approach, but unfortunately it hasn't really made much difference. For a while it was pretty obvious that she was MUCH more agreeable to sex just before and during her period, then pretty much non-existent the rest of her cycle. Lately, it's just been dead all month long. Ovulation has never really been a factor for her.
> 
> What makes it even trickier is that her cycle is less than reliable. Periods come a week sooner sometimes and sometimes a week late, and normally last a full week. This makes it sometimes a little difficult to gauge exactly where she is in her cycle.


My cycle, too, is becoming a "moving target." Still, I think there are cues my husband could pick upon. When I'm in a bad mood, he just always assumes it's because he did something to make me mad. If he could know when to chalk it up to my cycle, maybe we could avoid the sort of self-fulfilling prophesy that results from him assuming I'm mad at him and acting accordingly. 

How old is your wife. Is she in or nearing menopause?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

hjones1971 said:


> From a mans perspective(mine in particular) I've been struggling with this for 29yrs with my woman and am about at my wits end with it...She has the whole take charge thing as well and makes her feel wanted, which is great and all. The problem occurs in specific with my woman, I cant say that this is you. She doesn't reciprocate, she doesn't do anything in my own opinion to make me want her.


I'm assuming you've told her this, and that you've expressed what your needs are here? I'm sort of in the opposite boat--I've jumped through hoops and moved mountains to get my high drive back, and I'm enjoying all the sex, but I really, really need his help. I've talked to him many and multiple times about how to make me feel wanted so that I can keep my desire high . . .but so far, he doesn't seem to get it. We have zero in the romance department going on. No flowers, no dates, no anniversary, birthday or holiday dinners or gifts. He's great with showing physical affection and wanting to spend time with me watching a movie on the couch, but that's about it. I need to feel like he considers me sometimes as a person with an intellect and a distinct personality, and not just as a sexual partner, a wife, and a mother. 

I wish I was more I could do for him. He loves the sex and the emotional intimacy, but doesn't need much except regular physical expressions of love to feel wanted. 



hjones1971 said:


> I don't mind taking charge a lot, even most of the time. Occasionally I want her to be the little vixen, to tell me what she wants, to actually show that she wants. Guessing games are fun but you get tired of them after awhile. It doesn't make me love her any less, it just keeps me frustrated and I admit to giving up easily now and days just because 20 years of this has worn down on me and to put it plain and simple, im just to tired to fight now. So as much as I love having sex with my wife its become unimportant and if I get it then fine and if I don't then that's fine as well. Of course she doesn't understand it, the past years have pretty much trained and conditioned me. She seems to think its because I find her unattractive and don't desire her any more. Oddly enough communication between men and women vary so much. I have told her SEVERAL times word for word straight out EXACTLY what my issue is until finally I have given up and just live day to day...


This is pretty much what happened to us, too. My husband spent years telling me how he felt about our lack of sex, but it wasn't until I came here to TAM and heard it from a slew of other men that I finally understood it. 

When I read what you write about losing desire for your wife, it gives me chills, because that was where we were headed. It was exactly stories like yours that made me realize what my husband was going through. I really, really, hope that your wife can come to understand, too. 




hjones1971 said:


> I say all that to say this. Your situation is your situation and you know it FAR better than I ever could. My suggestion is that "want" and "desire" you have to be wanted and desired, reciprocate it and show it to him once in awhile. It may make a world of difference. I take my woman out to dinner a movie came home and ran a bubble bath and gave her gifts of lingerie waiting on the bed for her and gave her a message with oils and such and it was a nice evening and everything worked out.


Does she seem to want sex after you show her this sort of attention? More important, does she ENJOY it? Is the problem just that she never initiates on her own, leaving you feeling undesired? Or does she often reject you, no matter what you do?



hjones1971 said:


> the only time in my mind I can remember her wanting sex was when she elbowed me in the bed one night when I was trying to go to sleep and her asking me what was wrong, which turned into an argument because she refused to believe nothing was wrong...Later on I found out it was her twisted way of telling me she wanted sex.


Some women have trouble initiating outright. I've done similar things to try and prod HIM into initiating. 



hjones1971 said:


> every once in awhile, surprise him with his fav dinner and a movie, dress in some lingerie you went and picked out somewhere, make him lie back and relax while you take advantage of him. Pick some crazy place to have spontaneous sex.
> 
> I don't know that you don't do this already, just from reading your post it tells me that you rely on him to make a move and if its the right move hes rewarded and if its the wrong move...well we know the end to that


It's good to be reminded to focus on letting him know I desire him. This is something else I'm learning on TAM--and he does seem to really respond.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> My cycle, too, is becoming a "moving target." Still, I think there are cues my husband could pick upon. When I'm in a bad mood, he just always assumes it's because he did something to make me mad. If he could know when to chalk it up to my cycle, maybe we could avoid the sort of self-fulfilling prophesy that results from him assuming I'm mad at him and acting accordingly.
> 
> How old is your wife. Is she in or nearing menopause?


She's 37. Her cycle has always been that way since i've known her at 18


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I noticed the pattern quite a while ago (I think I mentioned this in my thread). Of course my problem is knowing what to do about it. Coming up with the magic combination that will work. In other parts of my life I'm always looking for the one method or one tool that will work in all situations. If you're into skiing then you'll know what I mean when I say I'm the skier who is always looking for the "one quiver" ski.
> 
> Problem is, that doesn't work with the wife! Based on a post on this website about 14 months ago, I downloaded a cycle app for my iphone. It's called period diary pro and I guess it's for people trying to get pregnant. She knows I track her cycle. I downloaded it to track how often we have sex. I know that rubs some people the wrong way, but I just needed to see it visually and I needed to know I had a warning system in place to alert me that we were slipping. This app has a calender and it designates days as menstrating, fertile, ovulating and "normal". Funny that the last few days of "normal" are her pms days. Anyway, at this point I know her cycle better than she does.
> 
> ...


I think I'd love it if my husband took it upon himself to try and track my cycles so he could better understand my fluctuations in desire. It would show an interest, an effort to try and understand me with the intent of helping us. It would make me feel like he was willfully engaged beyond his own desire. 

I know my husband tracked our sex when we were in our dry spell; I think that's how he started to make a connection with my high drive days and my cycle. I recently decided to start to track my desire and mood on the same calender as I track my cycle and our sex. Maybe it is over the top, but if I can figure out what works sexually when I'm feeling a certain way, I can let him in on the secret and hopefully he can learn to take over from there. 

Going back to having sex twice a month isn't an option, and if every time my PMS is raging or I'm not obviously horny he gives up, then we're going to backslide, I just know it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> She's 37. Her cycle has always been that way since i've known her at 18


Having an unpredictable cycle can suck, I know from experience. Has she been to her gyn about this? It seems like she should have some ebb and flow of desire with her hormones each month. I know when I was bummed out about my unpredictable period, it was just another libido killer. 37 seems to young for peri menopause. 

Of course, when I talked to my gyn about my lack of sexual desire, she waved me off and told me, "for women, it's all in their heads." Well, yes, some of it, but hormones are HUGELY important, too.


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## easy_e (Sep 11, 2013)

OP, honestly. If you want him to take charge, let him. Expecting him to read your mind and know exactly the right thing to do for you at a certain time is impossible and not realistic, it's also (when it really comes down to it)not "taking charge" is it? Taking charge would be him doing what he wants when he wants.....like you submitting to him.

Communicate with him. When you're in the mood to just get rocked.....tell him, "H, I'm really in the mood to just get rocked, no foreplay, just nail me!" And when you want lovin'.....tell him you want it soft and slow. Otherwise he has no other way of knowing how you're feeling and thinking. After you let him know, then he can lead the way and you submit, like you're requesting him to do.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've made the conscious decision to be open to sex and I communicate either verbally or nonverbally what I need depending on where I am in my cycle. 

If I want to be taken I tease and taunt. If I'm feeling dry there are positions that work better than others. He knows if I pull out the lube I'm tired and don't want to put forth the effort. If I don't feel like being touched I take control and do most of the touching. If I'm game for anything I relax almost immediately and my body is unguarded.

I control the amount of foreplay and the pace. No two nights are the same and I can never truly predict how it's going to go so I don't. Today we had some afternoon lovin and at first I wanted a nap but then I thought better of it so I undressed and let him do what he wanted. He totally rocked my world AND I'm pms'ing.

For me it's mental. I don't care if I orgasm or not. I focus instead on the act of loving my husband. Sure sometimes the first 5-10 minutes I might not be into it but I always get into it eventually. I trust the process. I trust him. I allow him to enjoy me. I am a gift here for him to enjoy.


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## DaveWalters (Aug 26, 2013)

I look forward to ovulation day. It's the only day of the month that I have any chance of being accosted, or having any type of initiation made upon me. I circle it on the calendar, because it's the one day of the month that we have a great sex life.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband would likely refrain from initiating if he felt I was less interested during certain parts of my cycle, that would be a real downer on him....I know him all too well....he wouldn't try to figure it out either... he'd just wait for me to grab him and say "you're taking me tonight".. . 

I guess I am really weird.... PMS doesn't slow me down at all....I want wanted all the darn time....He knows this...it got to the point, the only thing that kept me from having a PMS moodiness spell was HIM coming on to me ! It was dangerous for him to not give me lots of attention. I might start a fight... and he'd tell me... "I know what you need....You need laid!"... 

Though It's true, around ovulation time, the orgasms are more "over the top" exhilarating... the pleasure more intense, so that's a great time of the month.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Why does it all have to be so difficult? I wonder if people just over think all of this. I am mid 40's in peri menopause and my cycle is all over the place, where abouts in my cycle has never much impacted my desire. The only time I don't want to have sex is the first 3 days of my period and that is due to the mess, not lack of desire. On those days I do get extra enjoyment out of giving him a BJ, it turns me on but I especially like that it is just for him.

My mood doesn't fluctuate much due to my cycle, what is happening in my life at the time is what impacts my mood, nothing to do with hormones. 

I do think much of it is a conscious thing, I enjoy sex and make the effort to put it as the top priority, my hormones may well be going gaga but my mind is much more powerful than my cycle consequently we have sex daily, so where i am in my cycle is irrelevant.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Holland said:


> Why does it all have to be so difficult? I wonder if people just over think all of this. I am mid 40's in peri menopause and my cycle is all over the place, where abouts in my cycle has never much impacted my desire. The only time I don't want to have sex is the first 3 days of my period and that is due to the mess, not lack of desire. On those days I do get extra enjoyment out of giving him a BJ, it turns me on but I especially like that it is just for him.
> 
> My mood doesn't fluctuate much due to my cycle, what is happening in my life at the time is what impacts my mood, nothing to do with hormones.
> 
> I do think much of it is a conscious thing, I enjoy sex and make the effort to put it as the top priority, my hormones may well be going gaga but my mind is much more powerful than my cycle consequently we have sex daily, so where i am in my cycle is irrelevant.


I envy you, then. My hormones affect my mood, and therefore my desire, deeply. I swear I can feel them coursing through my veins on certain days. Makes the hot very, very hot and the cold, very very cold. But, like you, I believe in the power of the conscious mind. My efforts toward trying to decode my desire vis a vis my hormones are conscious, and geared toward keeping sex frequent and good for both of us. I can either let my hormones rule me, or step into what you term "over thinking," and try to alter my behavior despite how my hormones are making me feel.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Was she always like this? I ask because I've noticed my PMS is much worse lately. I don't know if its my age (43) or because I went of BC pills last year, but sometimes I am so incredibly irritable that I start to avoid my husband because everything he does annoys me.


I would say it was the worst in her early 30's. She wasn't on hormonal BC at the time. She's 39 now, and it isn't as bad.



GettingIt said:


> He notices the avoidance, assumes he's done something wrong, and starts to dog me about it. He'll follow me around and just sort of BE THERE waiting for me to say something. Or he'll check with me incessantly to see if "anything is wrong." He can't seem to accept that I can be in a sh*tty mood and it has nothing to do with him.


After the really bad incident I figured out that it wasn't me, it wasn't something that I did. Before it was borderline and I could think that there was some blame. But once it's sooo over the top, it changes my thinking.

The good part is that with every 3rd or 4th cycle, we're talking 3 or 4 times a year. I can live with that, and giver her some distance when it hits. I couldn't imagine dealing with this every cycle.




GettingIt said:


> Honestly, I just need to be left entirely alone for those two or three days because, yes, if he hurt himself I'd probably be annoyed at his "bid for attention."


I was just dumbfounded by this. I was in the worst pain of my life and I really was trying not to be a wimp. I can take a lot of pain and not complain, but at times it would take my breath away. She told me that my gasping was annoying her. 



GettingIt said:


> He always said it would be easier to have none at all than have sex twice a month.  But he also said that the fact that I still felt desire and could enjoy sex gave him hope. I will be eternally grateful that he stuck those years out. We're not without our scars from that time, but we are working on it and seeing definite progress.


Yeah, I understand that thinking. In some ways celibate is easier than way too little. Week two of no sex is the worst torture of all. You're working on shutting down the drive, not getting turned on and then a cute little number walks by and BAM, you're reminded its still there and alive.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Holland said:


> Why does it all have to be so difficult? I wonder if people just over think all of this. I am mid 40's in peri menopause and my cycle is all over the place, where abouts in my cycle has never much impacted my desire.


Unless I'm presented with a bunch of evidence that this is some game she's playing, I don't think this is anything but natural biological processes going on in her body. I certainly don't ascribe to this being some conscious tactic to mess with me. 

The fact that I've noticed it, friends have noticed the exact same thing in their wives, and I read about it here makes me think this is very real. 

I also think it makes biological sense. Of course a woman wants sex during ovulation - it gets sperm to her waiting egg. Sex is driven by hormones, and those hormones change over her cycle. That's what causes the buildup of the uterine lining, they ovulation of an egg and the shedding of the lining if she's not pregnant. Those same hormones that do that also affect the brain.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> *Unless I'm presented with a bunch of evidence that this is some game she's playing, I don't think this is anything but natural biological processes going on in her body. I certainly don't ascribe to this being some conscious tactic to mess with me. *
> 
> The fact that I've noticed it, friends have noticed the exact same thing in their wives, and I read about it here makes me think this is very real.
> 
> I also think it makes biological sense. Of course a woman wants sex during ovulation - it gets sperm to her waiting egg. Sex is driven by hormones, and those hormones change over her cycle. That's what causes the buildup of the uterine lining, they ovulation of an egg and the shedding of the lining if she's not pregnant. Those same hormones that do that also affect the brain.


I have been a female for some time now, yes I understand the physical process involved. I also did not say that your wife (or anyone) is playing a tactical game with you. You have read way too much into my post.

Simply saying that women do not have to be at the mercy of their cycle. TBH lifestyle and diet has more impact on my mood than where I am in a cycle. Poor diet, junk food, preservatives etc can make me very grumpy as they do with many people. 
A healthy diet full of fresh fruit and veges, Vit B, D and E, water etc will go a long way to ridding a woman of such big swings in her monthly cycle.

It just seems some are living a harder life than need be. If men have to keep tabs and be anxious about how and when they approach their wife then there are some serious imbalances going on.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Holland said:


> Simply saying that women do not have to be at the mercy of their cycle. TBH lifestyle and diet has more impact on my mood than where I am in a cycle. Poor diet, junk food, preservatives etc can make me very grumpy as they do with many people.


I don't look at it being at the mercy of her cycle if we're both having great sex in sync with her cycle. What really turns her crank depends on where she is, and I roll with it. I embrace and enjoy the variety. 



Holland said:


> It just seems some are living a harder life than need be. If men have to keep tabs and be anxious about how and when they approach their wife then there are some serious imbalances going on.


I would see it as "living a harder life than need be" if we were having trouble from it. I don't look at it that way. I'm not looking at it as trouble at all.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> I don't look at it being at the mercy of her cycle if we're both having great sex in sync with her cycle. What really turns her crank depends on where she is, and I roll with it. I embrace and enjoy the variety.
> 
> 
> 
> I would see it as "living a harder life than need be" if we were having trouble from it. I don't look at it that way. I'm not looking at it as trouble at all.


Which means my reply was not in any way relevant to your life so this is why I am unsure of why you quoted and referred to what I was saying. If it doesn't apply then it is a moot point.

There are however many women that live a life that is not always necessary. Good health and lifestyle will alleviate many of the associated issues to do with pms and cycles. I don't get pms, I have no noticeable fluctuation in desire or mood at any particular point in the month which IMHO has much to do with taking particular care with living a certain way. A combination of healthy diet, lifestyle and a conscious effort in letting my mind rule life, not my hormones.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Sadly, I AM at the mercy of my cycle. I probably always have been, to a degree, but as I get older I'm better able to recognize how my hormones effect me. Also, My PMS is getting worse, and it is affecting my sex life. I've tried the isoloated "mind over matter" approach, and it was a fail.

However, as I said, that doesn't mean there isn't _anything_ I can do. My diet, exercise, and sleep are always the first three things I look at when I have any physical symptoms. (I live Primal, so those three things are usually in line). 

But I look at considering how my cycle affects my mood and desire as part of my overall health--not something that is a bother or a complication. Hormones are behind the healthy functioning of my body. I understand that, and I do my best to understand how they work. Including my husband in this knowledge seems productive. He's part of my cycle, after all, and I a part of his.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband would likely refrain from initiating if he felt I was less interested during certain parts of my cycle, that would be a real downer on him....I know him all too well....he wouldn't try to figure it out either... he'd just wait for me to grab him and say "you're taking me tonight".. .


Yes, this is exactly this dynamic I want to avoid. Before our "dry spell" my H was much more of a persistent initiator. Understandably, he became "gun shy" after years of rejection. In order to keep our frequency up, I need to somehow make him understand that persistence on his part is a turn on for me, that it makes me feel wanted, that when he gives up easily I feel, well, I guess rejected, and we start to spiral into that "emotional standoff" cycle that results in no sex until we have a big blow-up conversation about what's going on.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"In order to keep our frequency up, I need to somehow make him understand that persistence on his part is a turn on for me, that it makes me feel wanted, that when he gives up easily I feel, well, I guess rejected, and we start to spiral into that "emotional standoff" cycle that results in no."

GettingIt...you can communicate this to him. There are books that can help. "Just F*ck Me!" is a good one. You can read it first and then give it to him.

But...I think you are also going to have to do a bit more sincere make-up work for your part in the problems you've had in the past. You are maybe going to have to explain to him that you want him to express his real lust for you and keep persisting at it, as this is what will warm you up from cold to hot...but at the same time I think you should do some "groveling" so to speak, and explain to him that you remember him doing this in the past and you shot him down. Tell him that you deeply regret this now, even cry if you feel it genuinely. Tell him that he was right and you were wrong back then. Show him that it isn't all his fault to fix, that you helped create the problem and that you were a young fool.

Then encourage every dirty thought he has toward you. Be more assertive in what you want. I know you said it only feels good to you when it authentically comes from him first...not you telling him to do something, and I get that. But until you two get back the dynamic you are seeking, you can ramp up his true horny-ness for you by acting more sexual toward him in general. Be more seductive, more loving, and more assertive in getting your needs met.

You can do this. You've come so far.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Oh and as for the cycle thing...I'm very regular and I put it on the calendar for him. I also put our plans, dates, and everything else on the calendar. Cycle tracking is great because I know for upcoming trips, etc. if I will be on my period or not. We plan vacations around this. Sometimes I get off a few days but then I just reset the calendar beginning date.

We have been doing this for a long time now so I now have a good grasp on not only my desire fluctuating (from high to higher), but also my mood and physical symptoms in each of the 4 weeks. Week 1 is my best week, I feel calm and good. Week 2 I can start to feel edgy and sometimes bossy. Week 3 is PMS - mood varies but I sincerely don't feel well either. Week 4 is period - mood is good but pain sets in.

My husband is great about supporting me during the few days a month when pain is present, and knowing when I just sincerely don't feel well. I am less likely to be grumpy then because he is proactively being kind and gentle to me. I see his kindness and it disarms my grumpy-ness.

We have also observed that his moods do change throughout the month in a cycle, too. He used to think that he was just reacting to me, but we have realized that because we are a bonded mating pair of mammals, our hormones "talk to each other" and we affect each other on that level. When we let go of fighting these cyclical issues and just go with them naturally, we end up getting along a lot better.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "..But...I think you are also going to have to do a bit more sincere make-up work for your part in the problems you've had in the past. You are maybe going to have to explain to him that you want him to express his real lust for you and keep persisting at it, as this is what will warm you up from cold to hot...but at the same time I think you should do some "groveling" so to speak, and explain to him that you remember him doing this in the past and you shot him down. Tell him that you deeply regret this now, even cry if you feel it genuinely. Tell him that he was right and you were wrong back then. Show him that it isn't all his fault to fix, that you helped create the problem and that you were a young fool...


:iagree: uh, now you're inspired me to be more nicer to my wife. She endured my LDness for so long time, I think I must do something to make up with the lost time. Thank you for the inspiration.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "In order to keep our frequency up, I need to somehow make him understand that persistence on his part is a turn on for me, that it makes me feel wanted, that when he gives up easily I feel, well, I guess rejected, and we start to spiral into that "emotional standoff" cycle that results in no."
> 
> GettingIt...you can communicate this to him. There are books that can help. "Just F*ck Me!" is a good one. You can read it first and then give it to him.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your encouragement, FW. The summer was cathartic--long talks, many tears, and plenty of sex. We worked through so many off the issues you mention, and I spent so much time expressing my remorse, that my husband asked me to stop, and to simply give him a hard hug when I felt the need to say "I'm sorry" again. 

But at the end of the day (or I should say, the ten years) we are left with a new dynamic that I'm struggling with. I do plan to talk to him again about my cycle and how it fits into how we react to one another. I'm nervous that it will be too much to ask after what we've been through. Still, if I can show him it's part of what I need in order to keep giving him what he needs . . well, we will see.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

In my experience a woman is the gatekeeper of sex.

Most men know this to some extent.

My wife never initiates sex. She never gives me a sign she wants sex although when we have sex she definitely gets into it! 

The time of the month means very little except no sex will happen during the period which is fine with me.

I have found that sex at the beginning of PMS reduces the PMS tension and physical discomfort of her period.
It's a bit difficult to initiate with a ferocious irritable creature though lol.

I would prefer getting a sign that she desires sex. A subtle small sign would do. It is unusual for her to reject my advances.

A one sided initiation of sex leaves the initiator mildly concerned about the level of desire their partner feels towards them and might make them slightly insecure on bad days.

Men LOVE to be taken too. It should not only up to one of the partners.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> "In order to keep our frequency up, I need to somehow make him understand that persistence on his part is a turn on for me, that it makes me feel wanted, that when he gives up easily I feel, well, I guess rejected, and we start to spiral into that "emotional standoff" cycle that results in no."


The biggest thing you can do is make it "safe" for him to initiate. Getting turned down sucks. But getting turned down after 5-10 minutes of foreplay that results in getting even more turned on sucks 10X worse. 

That's what made me stop initiating for a while. My wife wouldn't say no to start with, but then never get going even though she wanted to. I was already horny, and 10 minutes of foreplay wound me up much farther. Getting shot down then was so unbearable I'd quit trying rather than having that happen again.

I'd make a promise to him and deliver on it - you're going to shoot him down at zero, or you're going to go through with it. If you let him initiate and let him continue, you won't shoot him down after a time, no matter what. If you can't get yourself going, finish him off with a BJ. Don't just leave him hanging after some foreplay EVER.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

soulseer said:


> In my experience a woman is the gatekeeper of sex.
> 
> Most men know this to some extent.


But that's not my view of many long term marriages. I don't know why my experience with friends and family is the way it is, but I know more HD wives with LD husbands than the other way around. 

It really sucked knowing many in that situation when I was the HD one in my marriage. It made me do a lot of "why me" questions.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> The biggest thing you can do is make it "safe" for him to initiate. Getting turned down sucks. But getting turned down after 5-10 minutes of foreplay that results in getting even more turned on sucks 10X worse.
> 
> That's what made me stop initiating for a while. My wife wouldn't say no to start with, but then never get going even though she wanted to. I was already horny, and 10 minutes of foreplay wound me up much farther. Getting shot down then was so unbearable I'd quit trying rather than having that happen again.
> 
> I'd make a promise to him and deliver on it - you're going to shoot him down at zero, or you're going to go through with it. If you let him initiate and let him continue, you won't shoot him down after a time, no matter what. If you can't get yourself going, finish him off with a BJ. Don't just leave him hanging after some foreplay EVER.


No, I'm pretty good at telling him up front if I can't deliver at all. I promised him back in April when I came to realize what lack of sex had meant to him all those years that I would never turn him down if he initiated. I've held to that, but he has always only wanted sex if I'm fully engaged, so if I let him know I can't be, then he won't initiate. 

If I've ever left him hanging after foreplay has started, it's only been a few times in our 24 year relationship. The thing is, I now almost always want sex straight up, or can be made to want it with a little effort. Getting him to put in the effort on the days I need him to is the hard part. Like I said, unless I seem in just the right mood, he is hesitant to put himself out there for rejection. (Luckily I've found a way around that . . . I just strip naked and crawl in bed beside him. Wait, does that count as initiating? )


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OK so you've done the groveling, check.

Now you need to find out what feminine sexual behaviors you can do that ignite the masculine sexual behaviors in him that you want. Again - you want him to do these things authentically, because he just wants you soooo bad. But a man who doesn't have an open permission slip to act authentically can't be expected to just start writing that type of check (that he thinks won't be cashed). It will take you awhile but the way to get back on track is to communicate...

Find out from HIM what you do that makes him so hot he wants to pounce on you. Maybe that would be something directly sexual, like hop on the bed and start twerking for him in just your panties, no warning, just do it? Or maybe it is something far less sexual that makes him want to pounce....like dirty words whispered in his ear, or sending him a naughty picture via text. What makes HIM burst with lust?

I had to learn how to get my needs met in this area, too. I found that meant I had to go through some discussions and behaviors that were uncomfortable, embarassing, and other words that do not equal "turn on". But those talks and awkward learning moments were exactly what I needed to learn. I didn't want to have these talks... I wanted him to read my mind. He laughed at that notion and made sure I understood that he would never "enable" me like that. He needed his sexual partner to be open and assertive enough to discuss *exactly* what I want.

When I am able to describe exactly what I want, then HE is able to tell me how I might behave to encourage him to behave that way.

An example....

We have a nice private back yard, we like to lay out on our lawn recliners with a drink and just enjoy the summer weather. But I will take this up a notch, by putting on high heels and a bikini, and serve him drinks on a platter like some Stepford wife. I feel HOT doing this, and he LOVES this kind of display of sexual play I am doing. 

At some point during this display, he will not be able to stop himself from grabbing me and pulling me down on him and groping me. Or he will wait until I go into the kitchen and run in from the back yard and push me over on the kitchen counter and pretend he is going to take me from behind.

These are authentic feelings he is acting on...and these are the type of behaviors I was hoping to get out of him...but they were motivated by *my* specific behaviors.

If I asked him to just be lusty toward me without me showing him the same level of lust, he would just say "no way, I'm not doing all the work, a great sex life is a joint effort".

Do you know what your husband's authentic responses to your body would be, if he had no restrictions? We have an agreement where I do not restrict him from groping and grabbing me. This agreement allows me to see how he really WANTS to touch me and when. It gives me a lot of information. I'm not saying you should have this policy, but if he isn't allowed to just grab and grope his wife, then he won't feel sure of himself enough to actually be authentic.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you know what your husband's authentic responses to your body would be, if he had no restrictions? We have an agreement where I do not restrict him from groping and grabbing me. This agreement allows me to see how he really WANTS to touch me and when. It gives me a lot of information. I'm not saying you should have this policy, but if he isn't allowed to just grab and grope his wife, then he won't feel sure of himself enough to actually be authentic.


QFT


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you know what your husband's authentic responses to your body would be, if he had no restrictions? We have an agreement where I do not restrict him from groping and grabbing me. This agreement allows me to see how he really WANTS to touch me and when. It gives me a lot of information. I'm not saying you should have this policy, but if he isn't allowed to just grab and grope his wife, then he won't feel sure of himself enough to actually be authentic.



I've lifted all restrictions, we had a helluva summer, but the last ten years did change his ability to act sexually towards me when I'm not dripping with desire. 

When I'm feeling it, when I've got desire, I'm all over his wildest fantasies. We talk about sex a lot, we've broken into some new territory with fantasies, etc. 

But the issue I'm having is with him being comfortable with approaching me without reservation even when I'm not dripping with desire, or at least in a very friendly mood where he can be assured high chance of success. 

We have three kids, he has a stressful job, things are chaotic more often than not, and my hormones are giving me the devil a few days each month. I'm not walking around in my metaphoric bikini all day every day. But that doesn't mean I don't want him. He assumes it does. Hence, we start down the "who's going to initiate" road. 

I think you are right--it is going to take time for him to start cashing that blank check. In the meantime, I know I have to find a way to get back on track after I've had a few bad days and he's begun to shut down. I just figured if I could show him how my cycle affected my mood he could understand that it's REALLY not him that's making me crabby. 

Truly, he's a bear after about day three without sex. But by then the dynamic between us sucks so bad it wouldn't matter if I did the naked twerk -- he'd still reject me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It all sounds good, you just need more time and work at this...overcoming 10 years in 6 months is nearly impossible, give it another 6 months and I bet you'll both be getting what you need and want.

But...have you read "Just F*ck Me?" and if yes, have you given it to him? That's a really good one for this issue and it addresses long sexless problems, too.

Also...Intimacy and Desire by Schnarch. He talks a lot about normal marital sadism, and a lot of the other issues you are dancing around.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> It all sounds good, you just need more time and work at this...overcoming 10 years in 6 months is nearly impossible, give it another 6 months and I bet you'll both be getting what you need and want.
> 
> But...have you read "Just F*ck Me?" and if yes, have you given it to him? That's a really good one for this issue and it addresses long sexless problems, too.
> 
> Also...Intimacy and Desire by Schnarch. He talks a lot about normal marital sadism, and a lot of the other issues you are dancing around.


No, I've not read any books on the matter--but I've been meaning to. Time for a trip to Amazon . . .


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## JoMarch (Sep 26, 2013)

I take a natural hormone supplement and it has changed my life. I hardly get pms now (I used to be Medusa once a month) and I feel sexy pretty much all month. Worth looking into I say.


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