# Girls' Night Out



## EleGirl

For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?

What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


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## bandit.45

Aw sh!t EleGirl....

You're not going to stir up this hornets nest again are you? How many fvcking threads about this subject have led to cross gender warfare on TAM? 

Rabble rouser.


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## Idyit

I'll bite. She lied in order to cross a known boundary placing herself in a high temptation environment and continued to hide the truth (you said found out, not that she admitted). This combined with an assumed shaky relationship (communication / desire for 'single' activities / lying?) spells trouble at the very least brewing.

What would I say? Very little. I would tell her what I know and how, repeating some of the above statements. If she's remorseful and it's something we can work through, great. If not we get a third party to help us figure out how to fly the same plane instead of dogfighting. 

~ Passio


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## Mostlycontent

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


How would you feel if the reverse were true and it was the husband making the request or being deceitful? I'm not sure why the response or reaction would be any different.


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## hambone

If a wife want's go to go out with a friend, go to lunch.


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## Wolf1974

Could care less about the GNO. But the lying is a deal breaker


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## EleGirl

Idyit said:


> I'll bite. She lied in order to cross a known boundary placing herself in a high temptation environment and continued to hide the truth (you said found out, not that she admitted). This combined with an assumed shaky relationship (communication / desire for 'single' activities / lying?) spells trouble at the very least brewing.
> 
> What would I say? Very little. I would tell her what I know and how, repeating some of the above statements. If she's remorseful and it's something we can work through, great. If not we get a third party to help us figure out how to fly the same plane instead of dogfighting.
> 
> ~ Passio


Why do you think that going out with her female friends is a single's activity. Can't a married women go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of her friends and a few drinks?


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## Mostlycontent

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that going out with her female friends is a single's activity. Can't a married women go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of her friends and a few drinks?


No, at least not IMO.

Women get hit on and flirted with when they go out to the bars because men are still the aggressor's 99% of the time. To me, this is akin to a guys night out where the guys, all married, go hit on every girl in the joint. See the difference?

No wife would approve of a guy's behavior if he were hitting on and flirting with every attractive girl in the bar but for some reason they think they should be able to go out with the girls and this is the very thing that happens. It's apples and oranges.

I told my wife years ago that she doesn't get to go out and play "pretend single" unless she wants me to do likewise. You know what I did when I was single? That's right, I hit on the attractive girls I wanted and had a fairly high rate of success. She didn't want me doing that so I think I made my point to her.


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## EleGirl

Mostlycontent said:


> No, at least not IMO.
> 
> Women get hit on and flirted with when they go out to the bars because men are still the aggressor's 99% of the time. To me, this is akin to a guys night out where the guys, all married, go hit on every girl in the joint. See the difference?
> 
> No wife would approve of a guy's behavior if he were hitting on and flirting with every attractive girl in the bar but for some reason they think they should be able to go out with the girls and this is the very thing that happens. It's apples and oranges.
> 
> I told my wife years ago that she doesn't get to go out and play "pretend single" unless she wants me to do likewise. You know what I did when I was single? That's right, I hit on the attractive girls I wanted and had a fairly high rate of success. She didn't want me doing that so I think I made my point to her.


Ah, so married men can got out on guy's night out.

But married women should not?

I've done a lot of girls' nights out when I was single and married. Mostly all the men do not hit on all the women. I think it's a fantasy that if a group of women walk into a club or club/bar/restaurant they well be hit on by swarms of men.


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## johny1989

Well if wife wants to go out with her friends and if the friends are female then I think no need to worry about that because after she is a human being and she likes some enjoyment in her life so sometimes I think its okay to give her space nothing wrong with that. If you have trust on your wife and she is also loyal wife for you then I think no need to worry about that..


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## Mostlycontent

EleGirl said:


> Ah, so married men can got out on guy's night out.
> 
> But married women should not?
> 
> I've done a lot of girls' nights out when I was single and married. Mostly all the men do not hit on all the women. I think it's a fantasy that if a group of women walk into a club or club/bar/restaurant they well be hit on by swarms of men.



First off, where did I say that married men could and should go out. You seem to be itching for an argument that doesn't exist.

Secondly, you may not have the experience of getting hit on a lot when you go out but I can tell you that my wife does. She has been hit on numerous times any time she has gone out with the girls. I suppose it depends on what you look like.

As I stated before, men are still the aggressors and oftentimes, men can go out with the guys and people watch, trade war stories and get a little buzz and absolutely nothing happens because they don't initiate anything.

Now women may have the same intent but they end up getting approached by men, flirted with, asked to dance, and hit on throughout the night. Of course, the degree of this occurrence usually depends on how attractive the women are. Again, it's apples and oranges.

If the women were the aggressors, I'm sure you would not approve of the men folk going out on their own and being approached and otherwise tempted unnecessarily.


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## EleGirl

Mostlycontent said:


> First off, where did I say that married men could and should go out. You seem to be itching for an argument that doesn't exist.
> 
> Secondly, you may not have the experience of getting hit on a lot when you go out but I can tell you that my wife does. She has been hit on numerous times any time she has gone out with the girls. *I suppose it depends on what you look like*.
> 
> As I stated before, men are still the aggressors and oftentimes, men can go out with the guys and people watch, trade war stories and get a little buzz and absolutely nothing happens because they don't initiate anything.
> 
> Now women may have the same intent but they end up getting approached by men, flirted with, asked to dance, and hit on throughout the night. Of course, the degree of this occurrence usually depends on how *attractive the women are*. Again, it's apples and oranges.
> 
> If the women were the aggressors, I'm sure you would not approve of the men folk going out on their own and being approached and otherwise tempted unnecessarily.


Ah I love the little comments about being attractive. I look a lot like Meg Ryan with longer hair. When I was younger I had no problem in the looks department or attracting men.

A lot of whether or not women are hit on depends on the vibes a woman puts out. And of course there is always the word "no".

My sons and their friends talk about what tis' like these days when they go out partying. They het hit on by women all the time. Of course they are putting out the vibes that they are open to it.


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## Cooper

The first question I have is why did she need to lie about it? If there is a history of deceit or cheating then she shouldn't be putting herself in those environments, and I can understand why her husband wouldn't want her out like that. 

In a good marriage....I see nothing wrong with a woman or a man going out and having some fun with friends within reasonable boundaries. 

But the second you lie about it everything changes, I would guess there is some missing history to this story.


""Ah I love the little comments about being attractive. I look a lot like Meg Ryan with longer hair."" EleGirl I would hit on you


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## frusdil

I don't care at all about the bno, but the lying is not on.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## frusdil

I just saw that bno is totally irrelevant to this thread as it's about gno. Oops, lol. Carry on 

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## over20

frusdil said:


> I just saw that bno is totally irrelevant to this thread as it's about gno. Oops, lol. Carry on
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


There is no BNO, cause the wives of those men got it going on!!


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## MaritimeGuy

Wolf1974 said:


> Could care less about the GNO. But the lying is a deal breaker


I'm 100% in agreement with this. 

GNO doesn't bother me at all. If I thought for a second my partner could be tempted to cheat on me by some guy at a bar I wouldn't be with her. I credit her with more intelligence than to somehow be "fooled" into it. 

If she made a point of lying about it I would assume it's because she has a guilty conscience and figure she is up to no good.


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## committed4ever

Well here's my take on it as a woman who use to do GNO at the scene described on a regular basis with 5 of my girlfriends, only one of whom was married.

We were constantly hit on in such places. Out of all of us I was the only one who did not even TALK to men. At first I would just tell them no thanks, I don't drink (I dont) and that I didn't want to dance. That didn't stop the advances. Then I would tell them I was married and that seemed to be more of an attraction somehow. So then I started just flashing my rings and wouldn't even make eye contact. I got plenty of comments like "b!tch you aint _that_ fine." That didn't stop the action at our table one bit, my single friends got plenty of free drinks and dances. My married friend did too actually but she never took it any further. 

Things began to get a little out of hand and my husband asked me to stop going ... okay, well TOLD me, but not in an angry way. It's all in one of my early threads. Most men took his side and a few women too. He thought I was susceptible to cheating in that environment. He also thinks its always ok for us to check each other. 

One thing I can say for sure is it didn't matter that I was only there for the atmosphere and not to hook up with anybody, didn't even make eye contact with men, and would not even talk to men who were trying to hook up with one of my single friends. I totally ignored them, but it never stopped the advances.


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## MaritimeGuy

committed4ever said:


> One thing I can say for sure is it didn't matter that I was only there for the atmosphere and not to hook up with anybody, didn't even make eye contact with men, and would not even talk to men who were trying to hook up with one of my single friends. I totally ignored them, but it never stopped the advances.


So what was your husband afraid of?


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## ReformedHubby

The lying part would be a huge issue for me. If you're lying to me about where you are going and with whom, then obviously you're hiding something.

Generally speaking I've got no issues with GNOs, but my wife doesn't do GNOs at night clubs. When we were younger if she wanted to go to the club with friends I really would not have cared. Most of our friends were clubbers. But now we've slowed down a bit. We're out of the city and in burbs. We just don't do the club thing anymore. 

TAM has me a bit confused. Are you people referring to a club or more a bar/lounge setting? Because most of the married forty somethings I know that were hard core clubbers have outgrown it for the most part.


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## DoF

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where *drinks and partying* were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?


Umm, NO

Whenever alcohol is involved we are talking loss of control.....and for most, carelessness is involved as well.

Add party type of atmosphere and other people........it takes a strong individual to not be tempted or blinded....amongst other things.

IMO it's simply inappropriate/disrespectful situation to be in while while in LTR.

If wife wants to go out party and drink, I will go with her.

It would also depend on her friends. 

Why does it have to be "girls" night out. Are the friends single/married? Are their relationships healthy? Are their friends of our marriage?



EleGirl said:


> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


Even worse than above, lying is a huge red flag.


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## Wolf1974

I guess in thinking of it alittle more this morning I wouldn't be ok with this GNO as defined. My GF goes to dinner often with her Girl friends and they catch up. I have no issues with that. By if she wanted to go to night club that's outside my comfort zone. You don't go to a club to catch up you go to party and hook up. If she wanted that she could have stayed and would find herself single. That's not the type of relationship I would have. So between that and lying not the type of woman I will be with


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## Convection

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


As others have said, lying if the issue, not the GNO. Lady Convection doesn't have to lie; if she wants to go out, she goes out. I would be upset about her lying, when I have never tried to stop her from doing this. Honestly, she does it so rarely (in 18 yrs together, I can count on one hand the number of bars she's been to with her girlfriends without me) it's not much of an issue.

If I did bust her in a lie like this, obviously my trust would be very damaged.

Also, I make it a point to observe how her friends handle her in social situations. Where we live now, her friends are not much for drinking and carousing. Even better, they are all in long-term marriages and I believe they would intercede if they saw Lady C getting in some kind of extra-marital trouble while she was partying. I know at least one has (in a non-GNO situation) shooed a flirt away from my wife. When your spouse has good friends to the marriage, these kind of worries tend to minimize.


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## committed4ever

MaritimeGuy said:


> So what was your husband afraid of?


In case you are not being sarcastic, I think my post was pretty clear.


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## DoF

committed4ever said:


> Well here's my take on it as a woman who use to do GNO at the scene described on a regular basis with 5 of my girlfriends, only one of whom was married.
> 
> We were constantly hit on in such places. Out of all of us I was the only one who did not even TALK to men. At first I would just tell them no thanks, I don't drink (I dont) and that I didn't want to dance. That didn't stop the advances. Then I would tell them I was married and that seemed to be more of an attraction somehow. So then I started just flashing my rings and wouldn't even make eye contact. I got plenty of comments like "b!tch you aint _that_ fine." That didn't stop the action at our table one bit, my single friends got plenty of free drinks and dances. My married friend did too actually but she never took it any further.
> 
> Things began to get a little out of hand and my husband asked me to stop going ... okay, well TOLD me, but not in an angry way. It's all in one of my early threads. Most men took his side and a few women too. He thought I was susceptible to cheating in that environment. He also thinks its always ok for us to check each other.
> 
> One thing I can say for sure is it didn't matter that I was only there for the atmosphere and not to hook up with anybody, didn't even make eye contact with men, and would not even talk to men who were trying to hook up with one of my single friends. I totally ignored them, but it never stopped the advances.


Here is my take on it.

There are 2 kinds of people in this world (they say)......followers and leaders. 

TO ME, EVERYONE will become a follower and part of an environment they are in.........in time, when put in certain situation over and over again.

Truth is, we go thru lot of stuff during marriage. There might be a day when you WILL feel like your husband/wife are crappy (no one is perfect) and then you add a certain environment and the chance of something happening is 10 fold.

I think it's a person's responsibility to put themselves into healthy environments and atmosphere while in a long term relationship. 

And when drinking/drugs are involved, it's THAT much more important to have loved one there to back you up/watch over you.

I simply don't recommend it. And if it's important for someone to party/drink etc, go nuts, just do it with your loved one (applies to men/women).

Better yet, stay away from bars/party type of places, and don't drink/do drugs.


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## DoF

committed4ever said:


> In case you are not being sarcastic, I think my post was pretty clear.


I think your husband was right and I'm glad you listened. 

Ask your girls to bring their SO's and take your husband out with them.


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## SunnyT

Circular argument. We'll all have to agree to disagree.

One side thinks if/when women get hit on, they are too vulnerable to resist.... due to alcohol, as far as I can tell.

The other side thinks if/when women get hit on, they just reject advances and remain true to themselves and their marriage. 

There is no compromising on this issue. Just an endless argument.

Lying is the issue.


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## Caribbean Man

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


Well i'd say that she's probably lost her mind and try to find out what's happening.

My wife was NEVER a party girl nor did she ever like clubbing. [ but she likes slow dancing with me in the nude , so we can only do that at home..]
In fact I was the one who even after marriage continued clubbing.
But I stopped because she was never comfortable with the idea of me in that type of environment , and also I was constantly being hit on by women and encouraged by my guy friends to respond.


It all comes down to the relationship dynamic in the marriage.

Nobody is entitled to anything out of a marriage except what they put into it.


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## DoF

Caribbean Man said:


> Well i'd say that she's probably lost her mind and try to find out what's happening.
> 
> My wife was NEVER a party girl nor id she ever like clubbing.
> In fact I was the one who even after marriage continued clubbing.
> But I stopped because she was never comfortable with the idea of me in that type of environment , and also I was constantly being hit on by women and encouraged by my guy friends to respond.
> 
> 
> It all comes down to the relationship dynamic in the marriage.
> 
> Nobody is entitled to anything out of a marriage except what they put into it.


Agreed :smthumbup:


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## committed4ever

Caribbean Man said:


> Well i'd say that she's probably lost her mind and try to find out what's happening.
> 
> My wife was NEVER a party girl nor did she ever like clubbing. [ but she likes slow dancing with me in the nude , so we can only do that at home..]
> In fact I was the one who even after marriage continued clubbing.
> But I stopped because she was never comfortable with the idea of me in that type of environment , and also I was constantly being hit on by women and encouraged by my guy friends to respond.
> 
> 
> It all comes down to the relationship dynamic in the marriage.
> 
> Nobody is entitled to anything out of a marriage except what they put into it.


Welcome back CM. How was the bus ride home?


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## Wolf1974

SunnyT said:


> Circular argument. We'll all have to agree to disagree.
> 
> One side thinks if/when women get hit on, they are too vulnerable to resist.... due to alcohol, as far as I can tell.
> 
> The other side thinks if/when women get hit on, they just reject advances and remain true to themselves and their marriage.
> 
> There is no compromising on this issue. Just an endless argument.


Some think this way. Others like myself just call into question a partner who would even consider this type of activity a good time. GNO no problem but clubbing is a specific environment for partying I wouldn't want my partner around. I don't date 18 year olds so this hasn't been as issue for me which is probably why I glossed over the activity Elle stated at first and had to think on it some more.


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## ReformedHubby

DoF said:


> Here is my take on it.
> 
> There are 2 kinds of people in this world (they say)......followers and leaders.
> 
> TO ME, EVERYONE will become a follower and part of an environment they are in.........in time, when put in certain situation over and over again.
> 
> Truth is, we go thru lot of stuff during marriage. There might be a day when you WILL feel like your husband/wife are crappy (no one is perfect) and then you add a certain environment and the chance of something happening is 10 fold.
> 
> I think it's a person's responsibility to put themselves into healthy environments and atmosphere while in a long term relationship.
> 
> And when drinking/drugs are involved, it's THAT much more important to have loved one there to back you up/watch over you.
> 
> I simply don't recommend it. And if it's important for someone to party/drink etc, go nuts, just do it with your loved one (applies to men/women).
> 
> Better yet, stay away from bars/party type of places, and don't drink/do drugs.


I know this contradicts slightly with what I said in this thread but I'm okay with people going to the club sans spouse because for the most part. Its not like they've never been out before. It also wouldn't be the first time they've been hit on either. Most ladies know how to handle themselves in this type of environment. They actually look out for each other.

In general (assuming things are still the same in the club) you can tell which women that want attention and which ones are out just to hang out and dance with each other.


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## Almostrecovered

couldn't you have just started another BJ thread?


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## Plan 9 from OS

My wife does not go on GNO's as described in the OP, and I don't go on BNO's that are similar in nature. I would say that if my wife wanted to go on a GNO with close friends where she's going to a nightclub, then I'd be cool with it given the current state of our marriage. But in reality, the answer will always be "it depends".


Strong marriage, spouses put each other first and a lot of quality time is spent together - an occasional BNO/GNO to a bar is OK
Strong marriage overall, but one spouse has started a new pattern to go out on GNO/BNO's regularly, then I would not tolerate it if it starts to escalate in frequency - especially if it cuts into our time. I'd tell her it must drop to a lower frequency.
Rocky marriage, and GNO's to nightclubs are a new wrinkle that started up - would not tolerate it. Even worse if the GNO's were of a high frequency.
Woman went on regular GNO's as a single, continued to do it while dating and expected to go weekly (or more) after marriage - then I would never marry her in the first place.

Those are my thoughts off the top of my head. Depending on marital circumstances plus knowing what type of boundaries your spouse has is the determinant - for me - on whether GNO's to nightclubs are OK or not. 

Even in my first bullet where the marriage is strong and the quality time is there, I would not allow my wife to go if she had a history of poor boundaries when drinking. We've seen these types of people before - great to be around and spouse of the year until alcohol is introduced and - inhibitions fall by the wayside.

ETA: Lying about going out would be unacceptable - period.


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## DoF

SunnyT said:


> Circular argument. We'll all have to agree to disagree.
> 
> One side thinks if/when women get hit on, they are too vulnerable to resist.... due to alcohol, as far as I can tell.
> 
> The other side thinks if/when women get hit on, they just reject advances and remain true to themselves and their marriage.
> 
> There is no compromising on this issue. Just an endless argument.


Not really

When women get hit on, they will cave in time (for some it can take 5 nights out....for others 100s......and some will never cave). That's because even the smartest and most responsible are STILL not perfect. 

Life is a roller coaster, being in such places when you are at the bottom is even more dangerous.

Bars/Club is simply not a healthy or appropriate environment for someone that's in a LTR.


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## Dad&Hubby

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that going out with her female friends is a single's activity. Can't a married women go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of her friends and a few drinks?


Of course she can, and if this is all innocent, then why the need to lie.

Plus there's a difference between going out dancing and meeting friends for drinks at a local pub/bar type place. 

ALL of my issues would revolve around why she needed to lie. I'm not hard on my wife or controlling. I try to maintain an environment where noone feels judged or controlled beyond boundaries that we both agree upon. So the fact that she lied indicates to me she's doing something BEYOND just meeting up with friends for drinks.


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## Plan 9 from OS

DoF said:


> Not really
> 
> *When women get hit on, they will cave in time* (for some it can take 5 nights out....for others 100s......and some will never cave). That's because even the smartest and most responsible are STILL not perfect.
> 
> Life is a roller coaster, being in such places when you are at the bottom is even more dangerous.
> 
> Bars/Club is simply not a healthy or appropriate environment for someone that's in a LTR.


When PEOPLE are subjected to temptation of any sort over an extended period of time and with a high frequency, MOST will fall to the temptation if given time. You can take a guy on a BNO and if he's doing this weekly (or more) and women keep coming up to him trying to get him to cheat - there is a high probability that the guy could be worn down over time. 

This is why in my response, I'd have no issue with my wife going on a GNO to a nightclub to have fun with friends if it's an occasional event - like once a month or less. I'm probably not a good one to answer this because neither of us are into this type of scene anymore unless we're going together.


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## Acorn

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that going out with her female friends is a single's activity. Can't a married women go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of her friends and a few drinks?


I can think of some guy's night activities that could fall under "go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of his friends and a few drinks" that most women would find highly objectionable.


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## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> Welcome back CM. How was the bus ride home?


Thanks C4E!

Everything's ok , as you can plainly see!


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## DoF

Plan 9 from OS said:


> When PEOPLE are subjected to temptation of any sort over an extended period of time and with a high frequency, MOST will fall to the temptation if given time. You can take a guy on a BNO and if he's doing this weekly (or more) and women keep coming up to him trying to get him to cheat - there is a high probability that the guy could be worn down over time.
> 
> This is why in my response, I'd have no issue with my wife going on a GNO to a nightclub to have fun with friends if it's an occasional event - like once a month or less. I'm probably not a good one to answer this because neither of us are into this type of scene anymore unless we're going together.


sounds good

Well, around my way (which is mostly NYC spillage).....club is not the type of place either me or my wife would even remotely enjoy being in.

Quite the opposite actually, it's probably the last place we would like to go....but that's just us.

We don't dance and we don't like crowds/places with a lot of people. Peace and quiet please.


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## DoF

Lila said:


> I'm one of those wives who goes clubbing every couple of months with girlfriends. We live in a metropolitan area with dance venues that cater to all age groups. The higher end places tend to attract the 35+ crowd on Saturday nights.
> 
> Anyways, I love dancing and get a kick out of club dance scene - the music, people, and vibe. This isn't an activity that hubby enjoys but he knows it makes me happy, so he's okay with my occasional GNO's to clubs. Aside from the obvious (no cheating), the only thing he asks is that I limit my alcoholic beverages to 2 drinks, which I gladly do.
> 
> Strong relationship aside, we both know that temptation is everywhere. Trying to control each other's behavior is not in the cards for us. All we can do is establish boundaries and hope that there's enough love and respect built up in the marriage to prevent us from making hurtful decisions.


Nothing wrong with above/sounds good to me. I think you 2 made a great compromise.


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## 6301

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that going out with her female friends is a single's activity. Can't a married women go to a place where there are drinks served and just enjoy the company of her friends and a few drinks?


 EleGirl. Sure they could. Why not. The only thing is before she goes she has to put her chastity belt on, no makeup and a old house dress and hair in curlers. (just kidding.

Going out for a night with her friends is one thing but be up front about it and don't lie. There's where the problem is, lying about it.

Same thing holds true for guys. Man tells his wife that he's going to his buddy's house but instead goes out with a bunch of guys bar hoping. It's the lie that causes all the trouble.


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## Revamped

DoF said:


> sounds good
> 
> Well, around my way (which is mostly NYC spillage).....club is not the type of place either me or my wife would even remotely enjoy being in.
> 
> Quite the opposite actually, it's probably the last place we would like to go....but that's just us.
> 
> We don't dance and we don't like crowds/places with a lot of people. Peace and quiet please.


We just had a conversation about music styles. My 17 yr old boy comes in and I ask him what's the number one on the billboard this week. He rattled off some band I never even heard of. My husband looked up the Top 40 and between the two of us, we knew about four songs total. The boy knew every one!

We don't go out clubbing. Too noisy for us! But that doesn't mean that if one of us had GNO or BNO, we'd forbid the outing. We have a "go do" mentality.

With that being said, we' rather sit out on the deck with a ****tail listening to Van Morrison.


----------



## Married but Happy

If she wants to go out, no problem. I trust her. And vice versa. Besides, we're not interested in the night club scene, but will - very rarely - go with friends if asked. Occasionally doing something different keeps us from getting stuck in a rut.

There has never been an issue - and won't be - unless lying or deception is involved.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

committed4ever said:


> In case you are not being sarcastic, I think my post was pretty clear.


My question was not intended to be sarcastic. Obviously I'm obtuse as I don't see what your husband has to be afraid of. You clearly did not entertain any advances from men. You went to be in the company of your female friends. It would appear to me he should be able to trust you 100%. 

There are a lot of places a person can make a connection and potentially hook-up. Two adults could connect while watching their children play sports, at a cooking class, at church...pretty much anywhere. We can't avoid all those places.

Is it not possible some people may actually enjoy the music and environment of a club and have absolutely no intention of hooking up with a stranger?


----------



## Wolf1974

Lila said:


> I'm one of those wives who goes clubbing every couple of months with girlfriends. We live in a metropolitan area with dance venues that cater to all age groups. The higher end places tend to attract the 35+ crowd on Saturday nights.
> 
> Anyways, I love dancing and get a kick out of club dance scene - the music, people, and vibe. This isn't an activity that hubby enjoys but he knows it makes me happy, so he's okay with my occasional GNO's to clubs. Aside from the obvious (no cheating), the only thing he asks is that I limit my alcoholic beverages to 2 drinks, which I gladly do.
> 
> Strong relationship aside, we both know that temptation is everywhere. Trying to control each other's behavior is not in the cards for us. All we can do is establish boundaries and hope that there's enough love and respect built up in the marriage to prevent us from making hurtful decisions.



I think that's awesome you and your husband have this kinda compromise. See nothing wrong with it.

Club scene isn't for me and just not into girls who like that kinda stuff. Luckily at my age this hasn't become an issue but I'm glad I'm not 20 again for sure


----------



## committed4ever

MaritimeGuy said:


> There are a lot of places a person can make a connection and potentially hook-up. Two adults could connect while watching their children play sports, at a cooking class, at church...pretty much anywhere. We can't avoid all those places.
> 
> Is it not possible some people may actually enjoy the music and environment of a club and have absolutely no intention of hooking up with a stranger?


Yes I agree *generally *with what you say, both paragraphs. I guess my H didn't feel that way. But I didn't/don't have a problem with respecting his request on this. So that was the end of that scene for me. It caused too much drama and wasn’t worth it.


----------



## jaharthur

EleGirl said:


> Ah I love the little comments about being attractive. I look a lot like Meg Ryan with longer hair.


Before she went for the fish lips look, I hope. I always had a big-time crush on her until that.


----------



## DoF

Ele, I really hope this thread is not about you.

You continue to seek advice from us, many have given it to you. 

Yet, from your last 2 threads it seems like you are simply accepting your marriage for what it is and just doing your own thing on the side now?

I'm here to tell you that you are digging a deeper hole underneath your feet.....and it will end in a worse situation than the one you were in when you first joined.


----------



## DoF

committed4ever said:


> Yes I agree *generally *with what you say, both paragraphs. I guess my H didn't feel that way. But I didn't/don't have a problem with respecting his request on this. So that was the end of that scene for me. It caused too much drama and wasn’t worth it.


I didn't even get that far with all I posted, but that is correct. In the end, if taken to even medium (or extreme) this will cause issues in ANY relationship.

It simply becomes a whole lot of risk and drama, for very little fun (if any).

Not worth it. There is 1 million better places to go to anyways.....

Around here, clubs are simply places for people to go and do drugs/drink and hook up.

If you are married or in LTR, going to such place = asking for trouble/high risk situation.


----------



## EleGirl

DoF said:


> Ele, I really hope this thread is not about you.
> 
> You continue to seek advice from us, many have given it to you.
> 
> Yet, from your last 2 threads it seems like you are simply accepting your marriage for what it is and just doing your own thing on the side now?
> 
> I'm here to tell you that you are digging a deeper hole underneath your feet.....and it will end in a worse situation than the one you were in when you first joined.


No it's not about me.

Accepting my marriage and doing my own thing on the side? I've been divorced since 3/2012. :scratchhead:


.


----------



## EleGirl

jaharthur said:


> Before she went for the fish lips look, I hope. I always had a big-time crush on her until that.


Yea before the fish lips. Gads I hate it when women do that.


----------



## DoF

EleGirl said:


> No it's not about me.
> 
> Accepting my marriage and doing my own thing on the side? I've been divorced since 3/2012. :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> .


Sorry, I mixed you up with another member, my bad


----------



## ReformedHubby

MaritimeGuy said:


> There are a lot of places a person can make a connection and potentially hook-up. Two adults could connect while watching their children play sports, at a cooking class, at church...pretty much anywhere. We can't avoid all those places.


Ehhh....kind of... You're going to be hit on a lot more in a club setting. Guys are literally always checking women out, but there are certain places/events where men will do more approaching. A night club is one of these places. I'm not against GNOs in the club but at the same time I don't think we should compare it to church.


----------



## Jung_admirer

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)? I'd say have a nice time.
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you? I'd file the next day.


----------



## Satya

My girls nights out amount to one or two of my women friends and I going out to a place with live music. I am the youngest in the "group." We sit together and have conversation, listen to music, or we share appetizers while having a few drinks. Sometimes men strike up a bit of chat with us and we have an unspoken rule that we are always polite but make it known that we're there to spend time with our women friends and give them support if they need it (i.e having a bad day, didn't ace the job interview, going through personal hardship). We politely decline drinks from other men and we never stay out past 10PM because we are all early risers. When we get home we text each other to say that we're back safe and sound. Seems pretty tame in comparison to what some other describe but that to me, is what a "girls night out" is.

I understand that men wouldn't want their woman going bonkers and getting dead drunk and blacked out after dancing on tables. My experiences are much more low key and I really, REALLY look forward to them during my week.


----------



## Mostlycontent

committed4ever said:


> Well here's my take on it as a woman who use to do GNO at the scene described on a regular basis with 5 of my girlfriends, only one of whom was married.
> 
> We were constantly hit on in such places. Out of all of us I was the only one who did not even TALK to men. At first I would just tell them no thanks, I don't drink (I dont) and that I didn't want to dance. That didn't stop the advances. Then I would tell them I was married and that seemed to be more of an attraction somehow. So then I started just flashing my rings and wouldn't even make eye contact. I got plenty of comments like "b!tch you aint _that_ fine." That didn't stop the action at our table one bit, my single friends got plenty of free drinks and dances. My married friend did too actually but she never took it any further.
> 
> Things began to get a little out of hand and my husband asked me to stop going ... okay, well TOLD me, but not in an angry way. It's all in one of my early threads. Most men took his side and a few women too. He thought I was susceptible to cheating in that environment. He also thinks its always ok for us to check each other.
> 
> One thing I can say for sure is it didn't matter that I was only there for the atmosphere and not to hook up with anybody, didn't even make eye contact with men, and would not even talk to men who were trying to hook up with one of my single friends. I totally ignored them, but it never stopped the advances.


Thank you for your perspective as this is exactly what my wife experienced. She's very stunning looking and was hit on constantly whether she was minding her own business or not.

I also "asked" and well as you said, "told" her to no longer go as I didn't approve. I suppose if she looked like your typical frumpy and dumpy middle-aged wife, I wouldn't be concerned but that is definitely not the case.

Contrary to what Ele may think, she was not putting out any vibes either. Guys hit on attractive women and have for centuries.


----------



## Mostlycontent

DoF said:


> I didn't even get that far with all I posted, but that is correct. In the end, if taken to even medium (or extreme) this will cause issues in ANY relationship.
> 
> It simply becomes a whole lot of risk and drama, for very little fun (if any).
> 
> Not worth it. There is 1 million better places to go to anyways.....
> 
> Around here, clubs are simply places for people to go and do drugs/drink and hook up.
> 
> If you are married or in LTR, going to such place = asking for trouble/high risk situation.


This is my take as well. If the girls want to get together and catch up, why go to a night club to do it? It's not like you can carry on a conversation in those places anyway.

Go to lunch or even just a plain ole lounge of some kind in the evening. The environment makes all the difference in the world. Why would a married woman want to go to a "meat market" of some kind when she's in a committed relationship.


----------



## DoF

Mostlycontent said:


> Thank you for your perspective as this is exactly what my wife experienced. She's very stunning looking and was hit on constantly whether she was minding her own business or not.
> 
> I also "asked" and well as you said, "told" her to no longer go as I didn't approve. I suppose if she looked like your typical frumpy and dumpy middle-aged wife, I wouldn't be concerned but that is definitely not the case.
> 
> Contrary to what Ele may think, she was not putting out any vibes either. Guys hit on attractive women and have for centuries.


Agreed

And it's also VERY hard on us men to even think about all of it or relate as well.

Chances are, the amount of attention/hitting on a decent looking women gets in a week or a month....is probably the amount of "hitting on" most good looking guys will get IN A LIFETIME.



So MOST of the temptation management is really on women's side..........we are talking titanic vs a sailboat.

:rofl:


----------



## Mostlycontent

Lila said:


> Don't assume that only the pretty girls get hit on at clubs. The guys I see at the clubs who are strictly there to get laid, will start at the top and work their way down. They'll get to the point where they won't care what the woman looks like just as long as she's got a vagina. Just saying.



Haha, yes, I suppose that's true but only some of the guys will go down that path. The attractive women will always get hit on whereas the less attractive ones only later at night once the booze has kicked in or perhaps not at all.


----------



## Mostlycontent

DoF said:


> Agreed
> 
> And it's also VERY hard on us men to even think about all of it or relate as well.
> 
> Chances are, the amount of attention/hitting on a decent looking women gets in a week or a month....is probably the amount of "hitting on" most good looking guys will get IN A LIFETIME.
> 
> 
> 
> So MOST of the temptation management is really on women's side..........we are talking titanic vs a sailboat.
> 
> :rofl:


Ain't that the truth. I remember a situation about 4 years ago when one of my wife's friends wanted to go out with her. Her son and my youngest son played ball together and my W and her became friends.

Well this woman, a few years younger than my W was equally stunning with a body to match. I think both women were quasi interested in going out and not being the only really attractive woman in the group. They both were accustomed to that role.

Well, as you might expect, I was totally against it. Seems my W got more than enough attention for my liking as the lone "stunner" in the group let alone pairing her with another "10". I said the only way this happens is if the husbands go to.

No man in his right mind is going to be happy about his W going to a night club and getting hit on double digit times, which I guarantee you would happen when both women are really attractive.


----------



## DoF

Mostlycontent said:


> No man in his right mind is going to be happy about his W going to a night club and getting hit on double digit times, which I guarantee you would happen when both women are really attractive.


There is man that won't mind, but from what I've seen those man don't have the level of care or love for their wives.

I used to know a guy that would go clubbing and wife would go clubbing on her own......to the worst/city/part of town around too.

Seemed like neither really gave a crap about each other.

We are not even talking about alcohol/drugs or carelessness here, we are talking violence and gunshots as a daily occurrence.

Weird. But not all relationships are created equal I guess.


----------



## DoF

Lila said:


> Don't assume that only the pretty girls get hit on at clubs. The guys I see at the clubs who are strictly there to get laid, will start at the top and work their way down. They'll get to the point where they won't care what the woman looks like just as long as she's got a vagina. Just saying.


Mostly and I are men, we have seen this more than you....trust me.


----------



## BradWesley

My wife and her friends don't do GNO's anymore. About every 4-6 weeks they have a girls getaway weekend. 

Most times they head to Atlantic City, and get pampered at the Borgata Spa, catch a show, couple nice dinners, some gambling and come home.

The last one, I gassed up the Gulfstream for them, and they went for an extended weekend in London. They really had a great time!


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Mostlycontent said:


> Haha, yes, I suppose that's true but only some of the guys will go down that path. The attractive women will always get hit on whereas the less attractive ones only later at night once the booze has kicked in or perhaps not at all.


I've often heard the opposite. The really attractive women don't get hit on because they're perceived to be high maintenance, probably aready taken, unattainable etc. 

Personally, it's my observation that it's the vibe being put out by the particular woman that draws the men. The b!tchy looking hot ones get a pass.


----------



## richie33

Lying is wrong. Wanting to socialize with friends is healthy. My wife would never need to lie to me about this subject. I trust her completely since she has never given me a reason not to.


----------



## krismimo

I think the real question is weather or not people trust their SO's to go out in settings like that. In my opnion to me if you ask your spouse to not go anywhere you don't trust them. I mean it's not really about the woman or the man hitting on them it's what your spouse does.


----------



## krismimo

Now you shouldn't lie. But if the boundaries are so strict sometimes people lie to their spouse wouldn't be so upset that they really went some place else. Not saying it's right but I could see that happening as well. And Not everytime women go out we get hit on, to me it's more about having the self constraint to just say I'm flattered but no thank you. That is not hard to do. Now if someone falls victim to that is a whole other issue altogether.The truth is there is the "illusion" of what is going on vs Reality of what really happens. People have a choice we all have free will if someone is going to cheat, they are just going to cheat, weather if it be at the bar, the club, a book store or at work. The irony is the work place is where majority of affairs derive from.


----------



## Mostlycontent

krismimo said:


> I think the real question is weather or not people trust their SO's to go out in settings like that. In my opnion to me if you ask your spouse to not go anywhere you don't trust them. I mean it's not really about the woman or the man hitting on them it's what your spouse does.



While I don't completely disagree, I think this is only partly true. To place yourself (guy or girl) in harm's way on any kind of regular basis just isn't a good idea.

Other posters have made the comment, and I agree, that being faced with repeated temptation plus the introduction of alcohol is not a good scenario. Why would you purposely put yourself in that position and why would you willingly be happy to allow your spouse to put themselves in that position.

My wife has had 2 occasions in the last 20 or so years where guys tried to kiss her in bars with absolutely no invitation or provocation. They were drunk and she is pretty and that seems to be the only formula needed in some of these night clubs.

It's not so much that I don't trust my W but more that I don't trust the other people in the bar to behave correctly. Additionally, I don't know what the motives or relationship situations are with some of her girlfriends. 

She had a particular girlfriend who was recently divorced that I specifically objected to her running with because all she was trying to do was hook up. That's nobody for a married woman to be hanging out in a club with IMO.


----------



## The Middleman

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?


I would let her know in no uncertain terms that I prefer that she not go. If she went anyway, the odds are high that I would at the same place that night; with or without her OK. These GNOs at clubs would be a deal breaker for me.





EleGirl said:


> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


At that point she has put the marriage at risk because I would never trust her again. I may not want to stay married. And right after we had that discussion, the story would be on my Facebook page.


----------



## Miss Independent

The Middleman said:


> And right after we had that discussion, the story would be on my Facebook page.



Why?


----------



## The Middleman

spinsterdurga said:


> Why?


Why not? I know it would be embarrassing for all of our friends and family to know about that kind of lying behavior, but shouldn't embarrassment be a consequence of that kind of behavior?


----------



## Miss Independent

The Middleman said:


> Why not? I know it would be embarrassing for all of our friends and family to know about that kind of lying behavior, but shouldn't embarrassment be a consequence of that kind of behavior?




I'm curious why do you need to inform your friends of what's happening in your marriage?

I personally think that it is immature to try to embarrass her. But I like to keep my life private and don't post every single details or important events of my life on fb...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Plan 9 from OS said:


> *When PEOPLE are subjected to temptation of any sort over an extended period of time and with a high frequency, MOST will fall to the temptation if given time. *You can take a guy on a BNO and if he's doing this weekly (or more) and women keep coming up to him trying to get him to cheat - there is a high probability that the guy could be worn down over time.


 This is exactly what happened to a close family relative of ours who was married for 19 yrs, 3 kids...she wanted to go out dancing with friends, then again.. and again.. she and a drummer got chummy-she fell into an affair.. led to a divorce, everyone was shocked.. the Drummer didn't last.. 



> This is why in my response, I'd have no issue with my wife going on a GNO to a nightclub to have fun with friends if it's an occasional event - like once a month or less. * I'm probably not a good one to answer this because neither of us are into this type of scene anymore unless we're going together.*


 We also would only go places like this together.. my GF's know I take my husband to any place that has booze, dancing, singles, that sort of atmosphere (it's not something I am comfortable in, I don't even drink)..... we did this a couple weeks ago, we walked in together, we left together..a friend asked that I/we come join her, as her BF is in a Band, and it was his opening night..

All of the "Girls only" type things I have ever done were eating out at Restaurants, celebrating a B-day ....or some event....or just some type of get together at their house... The wildest was going to see the Chippendales.(It was a knock off group though)...that was pretty fun!.. It was eye opening though, I never seen women get so CRAZY in my life when they came out into the audience.... I think I was the calmest one there. I'd do that again though! 










My H would trust me .....he's never been one to forbid things... I've always felt the freedom to enjoy my life and if I wanted to do something with friends..he'd just tell me to be careful...he'd want to know the when, where, when to expect me home (He can't sleep until I get home)....he knows I'd fill him in on every blessid detail ... that's just how I am.. his biggest concern is always .. what atmosphere would I be in.. what type of people hang there.. *basically my safety*... A strangers Intentions, one might say..

But since I have never wanted to go to these sorts of places...I guess this has been easy for him..

Obviously from the opening post... THE LYING / hiding is the real issue here...about anything... this destroys trust in a marriage -generally a downhill spiral from there.. it's like this saying...


----------



## The Middleman

spinsterdurga said:


> I personally think that it is immature to try to embarrass her. But I like to keep my life private and don't post every single details or important events of my life on fb...


Perhaps it's immature, but the lying about crossing a boundary is something that shouldn't be tolerated and needs to be blown up in a spectacular fashion. I believe that GNOs/BNOs lead to nothing but trouble. If you can lie to a spouse about this than you can lie about anything. Why shouldn't people know they are dealing with a dishonest person. For me this is pretty close to a deal breaker, so I would have no issue with letting a wider audience know the person she (or he) has devolved into.

Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Revamped

Lol! That would be some interesting reading! I just love Facebook drama! And maybe some actual footage video clip of you telling her to go home as she swanks to the bar!

Just as long as I'm not involved in any of it....


----------



## Jellybeans

spinsterdurga said:


> But I like to keep my life private and don't post every single details or important events of my life on fb...


Me, too. I don't understand people who post every single second of their life. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> THE LYING / hiding is the real issue here...about anything... this destroys trust in a marriage


:iagree:


----------



## ScarletBegonias

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


I wouldn't do either of these things and neither would DH.

I can't judge anyone who chooses to drink and party bc I mean,it can be really fun.If they have to lie about it then they shouldn't be doing it. 

Dh and I choose not to party without each other.It's more fun that way for us.

I don't think either person would be upset about the other one going out for the evening but lying about it would cause major issues.


----------



## DoF

spinsterdurga said:


> I'm curious why do you need to inform your friends of what's happening in your marriage?
> 
> I personally think that it is immature to try to embarrass her. But I like to keep my life private and don't post every single details or important events of my life on fb...


Over the years I have come to a conclusion that the more closest people know about your private life, worse off you are.

Now you see why I love this type of forum.....


----------



## COguy

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


I'd say....."Had fun while it lasted, good luck to you in life, wish you the best."


----------



## EleGirl

I find the responses in this thread to be contradictory to the responses give to a woman here just a few days ago. She realized that her husband was lying to her about going out to a biker rally where there would be drinking and partying. in the past he'd told her that thing types of things he and his friends did at the rallies were to lick shots off the bodies of naked women.

So she caught him in the lie and objected to him going. This is one of the typical kinds of responses she got... with a lot of people "liking" it....




> How about stop acting like his mother so that he can let you know that he wants to go to a bike rally and not have to hide it from you cause you'll micromanage his life.
> 
> Honestly, if its something that he enjoys...and presumably that's what he's planning to do...why not let him do it? Clearly its something he did before he was with you.
> 
> You, in turn, can negotiate something that you'd like to do.
> 
> I don't understand women that stifle their partner's entire lives and turn it into a chore and then wonder why their partner hides stuff from them.
> 
> The guy sounds like a hard worker...let him relax once in a while in his own way without nagging him half to death. Maybe he'll want to come home to you more if you're not such a ball buster.



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/208673-am-i-wrong.html


----------



## Tall Average Guy

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?


Define "drinks and partying"? If you mean to a bar, then probably not a big deal. If to a club known for hook ups and the like, I would definitely ask why there.



> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


That tells me she is doing something she knows she should not be doing.


----------



## EleGirl

Tall Average Guy said:


> Define "drinks and partying"? If you mean to a bar, then probably not a big deal. If to a club known for hook ups and the like, I would definitely ask why there.


I love this. You are about the only one who made this distinction. It's a very important one.



Tall Average Guy said:


> That tells me she is doing something she knows she should not be doing.


I agree.

But apparently some people think that she would be justified to lie because if you object to her going it's because you are unfairly micro managing her. Therefore it would be your fault that she lied.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

EleGirl said:


> I agree.
> 
> But apparently some people think that she would be justified to lie because if you object to her going it's because you are unfairly micro managing her. Therefore it would be your fault that she lied.


Well, I did not see the other thread (and still have not), but even if there was a problem with micro managing, it does not excuse the lie. People need to own their actions.


----------



## EleGirl

Tall Average Guy said:


> Well, I did not see the other thread (and still have not), but even if there was a problem with micro managing, it does not excuse the lie. People need to own their actions.


I agree with this and thus was rather surprised at the responses she got.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

EleGirl said:


> I love this. You are about the only one who made this distinction. It's a very important one.


My wife has a "book club" (which I think is really just an excuse to drink wine) once a month and then a GNO once a month where they go to one of the local places (so they can all walk) to talk and have fun. None are big party places, but they have a good time. Not much different than what I do with my guy friends (though my wife watches less sports when she is out).

But as Plan-9 noted, my marriage is very good. We connect well and do a lot together. So these sorts of outings are pretty tame.


----------



## naiveonedave

My $0.02 on gno's or bno's. Going to hook up places while married should be frowned upon. The best that will happen is nothing happens. That should end after "I do".


----------



## Acorn

EleGirl said:


> I find the responses in this thread to be contradictory to the responses give to a woman here just a few days ago. She realized that her husband was lying to her about going out to a biker rally where there would be drinking and partying. in the past he'd told her that thing types of things he and his friends did at the rallies were to lick shots off the bodies of naked women.


I found the responses in that other thread to be inconsistent too, but I think you have two different audiences. The folks over there seem to be saying that they are comfortable with both GNOs and this biker rally. Here, you asked a loaded question involving GNOs and you are predictably getting some responses from people (like me) that feel like GNOs had a hand in destroying their marriage, and (like me) they are probably ok with neither one.

I still stand by the idea of asking your spouse how they feel about these types of things and act accordingly. The lying is just awful.


----------



## COguy

EleGirl said:


> I find the responses in this thread to be contradictory to the responses give to a woman here just a few days ago. She realized that her husband was lying to her about going out to a biker rally where there would be drinking and partying. in the past he'd told her that thing types of things he and his friends did at the rallies were to lick shots off the bodies of naked women.
> 
> So she caught him in the lie and objected to him going. This is one of the typical kinds of responses she got... with a lot of people "liking" it....


I don't find it contradictory at all. Every time a girl posts about a GNO and people get upset about it, there are a bevy of people that say things like, "No one's telling me what I can do. You go girl!" or "that's too controlling for me!" etc etc.

GNOs and BNOs to risky environments have no place in a committed relationship of mine.

With my current GF we have an agreement. If she wants to have a GNO for drinks, she can go to a restaurant and get a table. Any "bar" type situation where it's acceptable for single guys to come up and mingle, is outside of something that I'm comfortable with. It goes both ways, I don't go out to bars with my guy friends, if I want to go out with guys, we go to someone's house or go grab a bite to eat at a table in a place that primarly serves food.

If either of us wants to go clubbing or to a bar, the other person needs to be there.

Not everyone will be OK with this, I don't really want to be in a relationship with someone that can't handle it. It's not worth it for me.


----------



## EleGirl

Acorn said:


> I found the responses in that other thread to be inconsistent too, but I think you have two different audiences. The folks over there seem to be saying that they are comfortable with both GNOs and this biker rally. Here, you asked a loaded question involving GNOs and you are predictably getting some responses from people (like me) that feel like GNOs had a hand in destroying their marriage, and (like me) they are probably ok with neither one.
> 
> I still stand by the idea of asking your spouse how they feel about these types of things and act accordingly. The lying is just awful.


Two things

1. Her husband lied to her saying that he had to work till 11pm to cover his intent to party. There is no acceptable excuse for lying. But most of those who replied chastised the op for even questioning her husband as though she was acting like his mother. The consensus was that he is an adult and so dhe has no right question his lyjng and partying. 

2. Most of those who replied ignored that the husband is the one who told his wife that the rallies were basically drunken wild events complete with naked women. The ones he and his friends attend are not the pg 13 biker rallies that other posters described. I do not see much difference between the x rated rallies her husband described and I gno at see some party club
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acorn

EleGirl said:


> Two things
> 
> 1. Her husband lied to her saying that he had to work till 11pm to cover his intent to party. There is no acceptable excuse for lying. But most of those who replied chastised the op for even questioning her husband as though she was acting like his mother. The consensus was that he is an adult and so dhe has no right question his lyjng and partying.
> 
> 2. Most of those who replied ignored that the husband is the one who told his wife that the rallies were basically drunken wild events complete with naked women. The ones he and his friends attend are not the pg 13 biker rallies that other posters described. I do not see much difference between the x rated rallies her husband described and I gno at see some party club
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am in total agreement with everything you are saying.

The posters over there have admitted that they are perfectly OK with the biker rally and would be totally ok with a similar GNO for their wives.

The posters here are gravitating toward being OK with neither one. Personally, after the way my wife thought it was ok to deceive me whenever she felt like it, I have very little patience for the lying that is happening in both threads.

I think most posters are actually very consistent with themselves. The answers are inconsistent because you have different people answering.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

This comment from the other thread.. Am I wrong?...

*remember it was talking about "LICKING SHOTS OFF THE BODIES OF NAKED WOMEN".. keep this in mind.*.



> How about stop acting like his mother so that he can let you know that he wants to go to a bike rally and not have to hide it from you cause you'll micromanage his life.
> 
> *Honestly, if its something that he enjoys...and presumably that's what he's planning to do...why not let him do it? Clearly its something he did before he was with you.*
> 
> You, in turn, can negotiate something that you'd like to do.
> 
> I don't understand women that stifle their partner's entire lives and turn it into a chore and then wonder why their partner hides stuff from them.
> 
> The guy sounds like a hard worker...let him relax once in a while in his own way without nagging him half to death. Maybe he'll want to come home to you more if you're not such a ball buster.


 This post doesn't surprise me at all...

This is why , at least I would advise...we should be very careful to assess what someone's brand of "FUN" is ...how they live/ who they hang with..before we hook up with them and call it a relationship..if this was part of their enjoyment & habitual lifestyle.. I'm going to say...a good 75% of the time, they will want so much of that to continue... that's just common sense. 

OH they will hopefully tone it down some out of respect for their wife....but just hanging in the same circles.. it can also escalate at various phases of the marriage, especially if one starts getting a little bored or other issues crop up....

To expect someone to do an "about face" of what they called their "Best years" or partying with friends... just cause they put a ring on their finger .... it just doesn't always work out that way..

One greatly reduces their risk of these issues by marrying someone like minded who also would not find this type of FUN enjoyable..

I would Nag & bi*ch if I married to this sort of man .... but I already knew that would not be working for me.. a long long time ago. 



> *The Middleman said: *Perhaps it's immature, but the lying about crossing a boundary is something that shouldn't be tolerated and needs to be blown up in a spectacular fashion. I believe that GNOs/BNOs lead to nothing but trouble. If you can lie to a spouse about this than you can lie about anything. Why shouldn't people know they are dealing with a dishonest person. For me this is pretty close to a deal breaker, *so I would have no issue with letting a wider audience know the person she (or he) has devolved into.*
> 
> Just my humble opinion.


Here is my view on this.. I would NEVER expose like that.. I would keep it at home.. share with a trusted friend (maybe 2) on how to handle.. needing that support -since it could be the end of the marriage..we all need someone to talk to...to vent.....

I've seen people MUD sling on Facebook...airing all of their dirty laundry.... what people may not realize is.. the person doing it.. often comes off as looking pretty bad too.. for going there... 

I have pmed people I knew to please reconsider airing some of the things they were laying out there...of course they HURT... they want revenge....and what they may get for this.. is HELL in return- depending on what sort of NUt you are dealing with.. people like to fight fire with fire...it's just not the way to go... this will only satisfy in the moment..

In contrast...Consequences, Leaving.. moving on with your life... Yes.. 




Caribbean Man said:


> *My wife was NEVER a party girl nor did she ever like clubbing. [ but she likes slow dancing with me in the nude , so we can only do that at home..]*
> In fact I was the one who even after marriage continued clubbing.
> But* I stopped because she was never comfortable with the idea of me in that type of environment *, and also I was constantly being hit on by women and encouraged by my guy friends to respond.
> 
> 
> *It all comes down to the relationship dynamic in the marriage*.
> 
> Nobody is entitled to anything out of a marriage except what they put into it.


I'm a lot like your wife.. I'd find slow dancing in some sexy lingerie in the privacy of our own home (have the kids spend the night at Grams, a friends)... so HE can take it off.. and we can take each other to the other side... far more enjoyable & exciting...over shaking it with a bunch of women friends any day....But that's just me.


----------



## TiggyBlue

EleGirl said:


> I find the responses in this thread to be contradictory to the responses give to a woman here just a few days ago. She realized that her husband was lying to her about going out to a biker rally where there would be drinking and partying. in the past he'd told her that thing types of things he and his friends did at the rallies were to lick shots off the bodies of naked women.
> 
> So she caught him in the lie and objected to him going. This is one of the typical kinds of responses she got... with a lot of people "liking" it....
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9694849


----------



## Brafdor

Generally, if you have to lie - you are doing the wrong thing.


----------



## krismimo

Going out for drinks and going to a biker rally are two completely different things that is a different animal altogther.


----------



## krismimo

I just find it extreme that people can't go out at all with their friends have a few and go home (Humble opinion). If someone does not have self control that is on them, don't blame the alcohol blame the person. And if you can't trust her friends? That is weird too. Sure you might have one or two friends that might be a little wild but people have a mind of their own if they are going to do something they are not supposed to that is on them. Are there bad influences for friends? Sure they are but it's also up to that person to acertain what is right what is wrong. You are a adult not a child and if you do something stupid you can't blame anyone else but yourself.

The two things I have noticed is this is it's more easily accepted for men to go out have a few no one bats an eye, but if a woman wants to go out with her friends have a few then it is a problem. Now it's where are you going to be who your with where is it going to be at that is not fair at all.


----------



## soccermom2three

I guess this isn't the place to talk about my Girl's Weekend Away from a couple of weeks ago?


----------



## krismimo

soccermom2three said:


> I guess this isn't the place to talk about my Girl's Weekend Away from a couple of weeks ago?


Maybe you shouldn't we went to vegas (For SHAME) where did you go?


----------



## soccermom2three

krismimo said:


> Maybe you shouldn't we went to vegas (For SHAME) where did you go?


We went to a resort and spa in La Quinta but we did go to a bar on Friday night and hung out at the resort bar on Saturday night.


----------



## bjchristian

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


GNO, whatever floats her boat. I could care less.

the deception is a result of some other issue(s) that need to be explored. either the couple can explore it or if they cannot find the reason get the help of a mc


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Acorn said:


> I found the responses in that other thread to be inconsistent too, but I think you have two different audiences. The folks over there seem to be saying that they are comfortable with both GNOs and this biker rally. Here, you asked a loaded question involving GNOs and you are predictably getting some responses from people (like me) that feel like GNOs had a hand in destroying their marriage, and (like me) they are probably ok with neither one.
> 
> I still stand by the idea of asking your spouse how they feel about these types of things and act accordingly. The lying is just awful.


:iagree:

And I would like to add that the context of the night out is what matters most.

If your wife is regularly going out with sexy girlfriends, dressed like party girls, goes to bars late at night on a friday or a saturday, stay's out until three or four, comes home a little bit drunk...

Then a husband is right to be concerned, and wise to discuss boundaries. 

I am very soft here, because we have had threads enough with the above description...

I would not be able to deal with that. Like in many other discussions on gender issues, there is a huge difference between what a woman is legally allowed to do within marriage and the psychological effects of these acts on a man. Who's feelings are equally valid. Many posters try to take a black or white stance on these issues. But it's all about the context where things take place.

I think marriage means that both partners find together a likable solution for their needs and security. And keep communicating about it, and loving eachother should mean something in regards with these GNO's or BNO's.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

My thoughts are if your spouse is regularly going out to singles bars and appears to be on the prowl it's no longer about boundaries. It's about your relationship. I would suspect they're testing the waters. Simply agreeing they stop frequenting those places doesn't change the fact they interested in seeing what else is out there. You have some work to do on your relationship.

I can't get my head around the concept that simply being in those places somehow puts a person "in danger" though. That somehow an otherwise loyal spouse when confronted by alcohol and loud music will succumb to the dark side. I think you're either looking to cheat or you aren't. 

So I would agree it's not a black and white situation. You have to consider the context of the GNO or BNO. Is it a rare occasion to let off steam with friends or is it a regular occurrence that you suspect is really a spouse on the prowl's night out masked as a GNO or BNO.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

EleGirl said:


> I find the responses in this thread to be contradictory to the responses give to a woman here just a few days ago. She realized that her husband was lying to her about going out to a biker rally where there would be drinking and partying. in the past he'd told her that thing types of things he and his friends did at the rallies were to lick shots off the bodies of naked women.
> 
> So she caught him in the lie and objected to him going. This is one of the typical kinds of responses she got... with a lot of people "liking" it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9694849


Can you post a link to that thread?


----------



## DoF

Lila said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/208673-am-i-wrong.html


Didn't you just say in this thread that you like to go out to clubs and dance?

Club atmosphere is 10x worse than ANY "bike ralley" or party atmosphere.

Fact that you are a woman and he is a man makes it THAT much worse as well.....

(sorry if I confused you with another poster on club/dance thing).


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Lila said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/208673-am-i-wrong.html


Thanks, I did eventually find it. The earlier links just pulled up a reply post.

That thread is definitely odd. There seems to be a big focus about her being controlling and not enough about the lieing.


----------



## jld

Dad&Hubby said:


> Thanks, I did eventually find it. The earlier links just pulled up a reply post.
> 
> That thread is definitely odd. There seems to be a big focus about her being controlling and not enough about the lieing.


The lying is a problem, just like the controlling. They kind of walk hand-in-hand.


----------



## DoF

jld said:


> The lying is a problem, just like the controlling. They kind of walk hand-in-hand.


Agreed, by controlling, you force your partner to lie.

Lily, how would you feel if your husband said "you can't go to a club/dancing"?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

DoF said:


> Agreed, by controlling, you force your partner to lie.


Nope. No one forces someone to lie (absent the gun to the head scenarios).


----------



## jld

DoF said:


> Agreed, by controlling, you force your partner to lie.


I don't think you force it. It's still a choice. He could tell the truth, and still insist on doing what he wants, with her full knowledge.

I think that's what he should've done.


----------



## DoF

jld said:


> I don't think you force it. It's still a choice. He could tell the truth, and still insist on doing what he wants, with her full knowledge.
> 
> I think that's what he should've done.


That's true and what a decent person SHOULD do.

The reason I stated that is because MOST people won't do that and will simply ignore/do their own thing.


----------



## Theseus

EleGirl said:


> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


This wouldn't happen in our home because I would never have a problem with my wife on a GNO. She can go whenever she wants, so she would have no reason to lie about it. If she did tell me she was working late, but instead went out to party, it would only be because her plans changed at the last moment.


----------



## EleGirl

Dad&Hubby said:


> Can you post a link to that thread?


Guess I had posted the wrong link before.... Here's the right one. I'll update my previous post. 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/208673-am-i-wrong.html


----------



## jld

Theseus said:


> This wouldn't happen in our home because I would never have a problem with my wife on a GNO. She can go whenever she wants, so she would have no reason to lie about it. If she did tell me she was working late, but instead went out to party, it would only be because her plans changed at the last moment.


There is total trust in your marriage. And that has surely been earned.


----------



## EleGirl

jld said:


> I don't think you force it. It's still a choice. He could tell the truth, and still insist on doing what he wants, with her full knowledge.
> 
> I think that's what he should've done.


People who cheat lie to their spouse about cheating because they know that their spouse would object. So yes a person can feel 'forced' to lie because they know what their spouse will object to what they are doing.


The husband in the rally thread lied because he knew that his wife would object to him going to an event that HE, HIMSELF, had described as a rather hedonistic event. He knew that it went against the agreements that he had made with his wife. He wanted to break at least one of those agreements. So he felt forced to lie so that he could do something that they had agreed neither of them would do.

I'm sorry but he's an adult. Adults don't get a pass for lying about something like this. He lied for a reason... because he had something to hide from her.



.


----------



## jld

EleGirl said:


> People who cheat lie to their spouse about cheating because they know that their spouse would object. So yes a person can feel 'forced' to lie because they know what their spouse will object to what they are doing.
> 
> 
> The husband in the rally thread lied because he knew that his wife would object to him going to an event that HE, HIMSELF, had described as a rather hedonistic event. He knew that it went against the agreements that he had made with his wife. He wanted to break at least one of those agreements. So he felt forced to lie so that he could do something that they had agreed neither of them would do.
> 
> I'm sorry but he's an adult. Adults don't get a pass for lying about something like this. He lied for a reason... because he had something to hide from her.


I don't disagree, Ele. He should not have lied to her. He should've been open and honest about what he was going to do.

And she could have taken her own decision about what she needed to do.


----------



## EleGirl

DoF said:


> Agreed, by controlling, you force your partner to lie.
> 
> Lily, how would you feel if your husband said "you can't go to a club/dancing"?


You would not be ok with your wife going out on a GNO that included drinking and events like naked shots.


----------



## EleGirl

jld said:


> I don't disagree, Ele. He should not have lied to her. He should've been open and honest about what he was going to do.
> 
> And she could have taken her own decision about what she needed to do.


She did make her own decision based on his behavior.

First she determined that he lied. He was not going to tell her that he lied so she had to do something to make sure it was a lie and then to let him know she was aware.

Then she told him that she did not approve of him going based on his own description of what he and his friends do at those rallies. Letting him know that she disapproved is one of the things that she needed to do.

I just don't get why she was beat up for getting to the truth. It seems that she was told by many people that she was controlling because she did not just accept his lie and rug sweep.

Do you really believe that it's controlling for a spouse to express their disapproval of something the other is doing.. especially when they are lying to cover for it?


.


----------



## jld

EleGirl said:


> She did make her own decision based on his behavior.
> 
> First she determined that he lied. He was not going to tell her that he lied so she had to do something to make sure it was a lie and then to let him know she was aware.
> 
> Then she told him that she did not approve of him going based on his own description of what he and his friends do at those rallies. Letting him know that she disapproved is one of the things that she needed to do.
> 
> I just don't get why she was beat up for getting to the truth. It seems that she was told by many people that she was controlling because she did not just accept his lie and rug sweep.
> 
> Do you really believe that it's controlling for a spouse to express their disapproval of something the other is doing.. especially when they are lying to cover for it?


Ele, I have to go and get my son from swimming and do some shopping. I will be back later.

But I will say that I did think her behavior was controlling. I don't remember the details, but I remember some testing, rather than open and honest confrontation, was involved.

I just cannot get on board with controlling behavior. Open and honest, to me, is the way to go. And if you don't get open and honest back, or even if you suspect you're not getting open and honest back, then I think you have to end it. 

Maybe I'm just really picky. I want openness and honesty in my marriage. I could not have trust without it. And I'm just way too lazy to run around verifying the truth.


----------



## Theseus

EleGirl said:


> I just don't get why she was beat up for getting to the truth. It seems that she was told by many people that she was controlling because she did not just accept his lie and rug sweep.


Not really, she was criticized for putting him in that situation in the first place. Most people don't see anything wrong with him going to a bike rally, and so they felt (as do I) that she's putting unreasonable boundaries on him. That's why I said it was wrong for him to lie, but at the same time, she shouldn't have trapped him in a corner like that in the first place. 

Even if "hedonistic" things go on there, the motorcycles are the main point of the event. A lot of hedonistic things happen during gay pride events or Octoberfest celebrations too, but that's not the main reason people go. 

Of course, this is better discussed in the original thread.


----------



## Mostlycontent

Theseus said:


> Not really, she was criticized for putting him in that situation in the first place. Most people don't see anything wrong with him going to a bike rally, and so they felt (as do I) that she's putting unreasonable boundaries on him. That's why I said it was wrong for him to lie, but at the same time, she shouldn't have trapped him in a corner like that in the first place.
> 
> Even if "hedonistic" things go on there, the motorcycles are the main point of the event. A lot of hedonistic things happen during gay pride events or Octoberfest celebrations too, but that's not the main reason people go.
> 
> Of course, this is better discussed in the original thread.



A friend of mine, married for many years, would go to Bike Week every year and his wife never objected. Sure, wild stuff happens but for the most part, it's not as bad as perhaps its reputation might suggest.

I will say though that if you're looking to get into trouble and fool around, you can find it there and I knew my friend well and knew he could find it if he wanted to.

Admittedly, I didn't read the other thread but perhaps the wife doesn't have a real comfort for what goes on there. She may be comparing it to going to a Strip Club and most wives that I know strongly object to that kind of environment.


----------



## EleGirl

Mostlycontent said:


> A friend of mine, married for many years, would go to Bike Week every year and his wife never objected. Sure, wild stuff happens but for the most part, it's not as bad as perhaps its reputation might suggest.
> 
> I will say though that if you're looking to get into trouble and fool around, you can find it there and I knew my friend well and knew he could find it if he wanted to.
> 
> Admittedly, I didn't read the other thread but perhaps the wife doesn't have a real comfort for what goes on there. She may be comparing it to going to a Strip Club and most wives that I know strongly object to that kind of environment.


He told his wife what he and his friends do at the rallies. So why would she expect him to do anything other than what he said that he and his friends do at them?

It's like a woman tells her husband that when she goes to bars she dances with men and makes out with them. So what will he expect her to do when she goes to a bar on GNO? He'll expect that she will dance and make out. If he objects to that.. would anyone be surprised? If she lied to go to bars in secret.. would anyone blame him for being upset and not wanting her to go?


----------



## EleGirl

Theseus said:


> Not really, she was criticized for putting him in that situation in the first place.


What position did she put him in, in the first place? He never talked to her about going. He just lied.

He goes out with friends other times and she says she had no problem with it.





Theseus said:


> Most people don't see anything wrong with him going to a bike rally, and so they felt (as do I) that she's putting unreasonable boundaries on him. That's why I said it was wrong for him to lie, but at the same time, she shouldn't have trapped him in a corner like that in the first place.


Again what corner? No where did she describe anything that was her trapping him in a corner.



Theseus said:


> Even if "hedonistic" things go on there, the motorcycles are the main point of the event. A lot of hedonistic things happen during gay pride events or Octoberfest celebrations too, but that's not the main reason people go.
> 
> Of course, this is better discussed in the original thread.


He told her that he engages in those hedonistic things. That's why she's concerned.


----------



## Mostlycontent

EleGirl said:


> He told his wife what he and his friends do at the rallies. So why would she expect him to do anything other than what he said that he and his friends do at them?
> 
> It's like a woman tells her husband that when she goes to bars she dances with men and makes out with them. So what will he expect her to do when she goes to a bar on GNO? He'll expect that she will dance and make out. If he objects to that.. would anyone be surprised? If she lied to go to bars in secret.. would anyone blame him for being upset and not wanting her to go?


Well if he told her that they get wild and naked with other women then of course she should object. She has every right to. By the way, this guy is supremely stupid if he told his wife things like that and then expects to have her blessing the next time he wants to go. Sounds like he has chit for brains.


----------



## EleGirl

Mostlycontent said:


> Well if he told her that they get wild and naked with other women then of course she should object. She has every right to. By the way, this guy is supremely stupid if he told his wife things like that and then expects to have her blessing the next time he wants to go. Sounds like he has chit for brains.


You got it. He told her this stuff and then lies so that he can work late and go without her knowledge. He's not very bright.


----------



## Theseus

EleGirl said:


> What position did she put him in, in the first place? He never talked to her about going. He just lied.
> 
> Again what corner? No where did she describe anything that was her trapping him in a corner.


He felt trapped, because his only choices were to lie, or to not go to the bike rally. I'm not making excuses for him, I'm just saying this isn't a healthy situation from either end.

It's the same problem with some of these GNOs, from the other side of the coin. If a husband forbids it, a wife might think that if she wants to go out, her only choice would be to lie about it.


----------



## clipclop2

understanding why he lied doesn't make it right. 

is what he did right or wrong?


----------



## BuddyL33

*Re: Re: Girls' Night Out*



EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


I wouldn't car if she wanted to go out to a bar or dance club. I trust her and she's coming home to me. I have nothing to worry about. 

Now of she lied about the whole ordeal I'd be furious and she would have broken my trust in a major way. I wouldn't trust her to go out from then on. 

Honesty is always the best policy.


----------



## jld

clipclop2 said:


> understanding why he lied doesn't make it right.
> 
> is what he did right or wrong?


I think it is wrong. Lying is not going to bring a clear conscience.

I don't think controlling behavior feels very peaceful, either. All that monitoring and testing takes some effort. And it is basically insisting on getting what you want, no matter what. It can cause resentment in the watched partner and puts too much responsibility on the controller. Not sustainable, imo.


----------



## EleGirl

jld said:


> I think it is wrong. Lying is not going to bring a clear conscience.
> 
> I don't think controlling behavior feels very peaceful, either. All that monitoring and testing takes some effort. And it is basically insisting on getting what you want, no matter what. It can cause resentment in the watched partner and puts too much responsibility on the controller. Not sustainable, imo.


Monitoring means that she was snooping in his stuff, listing to his phone calls or tracking them, and so forth. Why do you think that she was monitoring him and watching him? That's not what she said happened.


----------



## jld

EleGirl said:


> Monitoring means that she was snooping in his stuff, listing to his phone calls or tracking them, and so forth. Why do you think that she was monitoring him and watching him? That's not what she said happened.


She said she was testing him, right, to see what answer he would give? I don't think that is open and honest. It is treating him as a suspect.

Did she tell him he could not go? I don't remember. I think that would be controlling, too. I think you can say what you feel, but the other person makes their own choices. And certainly there may be consequences for those choices.

What I said on my post was more a general description of controlling behavior. I think it would be exhausting to do it. You never really trust the partner. And I think a marriage not based on trust is unsustainable.


----------



## EleGirl

jld said:


> She said she was testing him, right, to see what answer he would give? I don't think that is open and honest.


She used two words, “test” and “confront”. What she described was more of “confronting” him.

He is working out of town for the week. He never works late.

Then he tells that that one night he has to work until about 11pm. It happens to be the night of the big rally party. She realized this so she asked him if he was really working late or if he was going to the rally/party.

His response was that he had forgotten that the rally was that night. But now that she brought it up he’s going to spite her. With that it’s pretty clear that he did not need to work late. It was a cover for him going to the rally and to party.


jld said:


> It is treating him as a suspect.


What you are suggesting is that a person has no right to confront their spouse when they catch the spouse in a significant lie. There are few people who would agree that a spouse has to shut up and pretend to believe the lies that their spouse tells.


jld said:


> Did she tell him he could not go? I don't remember. I think that would be controlling, too.


So all the guys here who said that they were not ok with their wife going on a GNO have no right to voice that to their wives? 

From what she wrote, she did not tell him not to go. She told her boundary. “I told him if he goes and treats me like this that I am leaving and he told me to go ahead.” Now if she was not going to leave, she should have held that part back. But she told him that she is not staying in a marriage where her husband lies and goes out with his friends to the kind of even that he has described to her. He’s free to go. She’s free to object and to even leave him over it. 


jld said:


> I think you can say what you feel, but the other person makes their own choices. And certainly there may be consequences for those choices.


She did not prevent him from going. She did not lock him in a room, chain him down or otherwise prevent him from going. She did clearly state that she’s not ok with being lied to and with her husband partying like that.


jld said:


> What I said on my post was more a general description of controlling behavior. I think it would be exhausting to do it. You never really trust the partner. And I think a marriage not based on trust is unsustainable.


Nowhere in her posts did she describe that she engages in general controlling behavior. She’s a woman whose husband told her a significant lie. She was trying to figure out where to go from there. The spouses she got told her to shut up and just accept his lie, not question him. And that she had no right to express a concern about, or even set her own boundaries, about that she would accept in her marriage.


----------



## jld

Well, I thought she said she was testing him to see if he would give a truthful answer. I think it's better to be honest and open and just confront right off.

She certainly has the right to her own boundaries. Nothing wrong with telling him she's going to leave him if that is what she wants to do, if he goes after she's told him she's not comfortable with it. And it sounds like he is open to her leaving.

And really, she is welcome to tell him he cannot go. But the reality is he does not have to obey her. I'm not saying she said that, btw.

Different spouses are going to have different latitudes on what they feel comfortable with. Obviously, everyone is welcome to their own. But sometimes hearing that everybody else is comfortable with something can make you realize that maybe your fears are unfounded. You don't have to give up your fears, though. You're welcome to do whatever you want to do. But sometimes getting some outside opinions can be helpful.

I could not be with a man who lied to me. I give honesty and I expect honesty. I give trust and I expect trust. I also think controlling is too much work in marriage. And no fun.


----------



## Entropy3000

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


That sounds like a dealbreaker to me.


Inapparoprite Behavior --> Unfailthfulness --> Cheating

The unfaithfulness is the deceit. The GNO is the bait for this thread of course. For her to lie then would be agreeing that she was crossing a boundary and she did so anyway risking her marriage. So a choice here. A value judgement.

F that.

I would say stepping back at this that if this was more important to her then she should go. She should go be single. Obviously I am in her way of her pursuit of happiness.

Some folks mentioned clubbing. My wife would not be ok with me and a wingman going out dancing. Yes, I enjoy dancing. That sounds like fun actually. 

I would have to reread the biker thread. Not likely at this point. Lying is wrong in either case. But really if you have to lie to do these things and they are more important than your marriage ... then move on. The complication is when someone starts rewriting the rules on their own and there are children involved. The children become leverage. Messed up.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

EleGirl said:


> Ah I love the little comments about being attractive. I look a lot like Meg Ryan with longer hair. When I was younger I had no problem in the looks department or attracting men.
> 
> A lot of whether or not women are hit on depends on the vibes a woman puts out. And of course there is always the word "no".
> 
> My sons and their friends talk about what tis' like these days when they go out partying. They het hit on by women all the time. Of course they are putting out the vibes that they are open to it.


:iagree: with your middle paragraph 200%
Way too many people posting for husbands to beware the "playa"!
Makes more sense to beware the player you're married to.....guys.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

EleGirl said:


> Ah I love the little comments about being attractive. I look a lot like Meg Ryan with longer hair. When I was younger I had no problem in the looks department or attracting men.
> 
> A lot of whether or not women are hit on depends on the vibes a woman puts out. And of course there is always the word "no".
> 
> My sons and their friends talk about what tis' like these days when they go out partying. They het hit on by women all the time. Of course they are putting out the vibes that they are open to it.


I hope you had a longer career than Meg Ryan.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Lila said:


> I'd ask him why? :scratchhead:
> 
> DoF, every relationship has it's own dynamics. What works for you and your wife, may or may not work for others. Doesn't make others lifestyles better or worse, just different.
> 
> P.S. I'm not the one that started that Biker Ralley Thread. You might have me confused with Lily2345 (or whatever her number was). I do go out clubbing/dancing with my husband's blessings.


Who do you dance with when you go? Or is it dancing solo more or less?


----------



## The Middleman

Lila said:


> I typically go with 3 or 4 other girlfriends, but the regulars consist of my neighbor and her sister. It's a GNO in a dancing venue, that's it. No more, no less. We have a few drinks, we laugh, we dance, we people watch, enjoy the vibe, and come home to our husbands.


Just out of curiosity, if you husband said he wasn't comfortable with the GNOs and asked you not to go, what do you think you might do? Would you stop or continue? Do you think it would affect your marriage if he did make that request?


----------



## The Middleman

Lila said:


> I'd first ask him why he felt uncomfortable with the GNOs? There has to be a reason, right? Is this a symptom of his unhappiness with our marriage in general? Does he lack confidence in my ability to make the right decisions? People don't just say "No" without legitimate reasons.
> 
> I guess that would depend on his response to my question of "why?". .


First, I want to thank you for the honest reply. 

I guess where I was going with my question is this: If your husband said something like *"I'm not comfortable with you going to a place where liquor is being served, there is dancing and there are guys around without my being there. It's not that I don't trust you, I'm just not comfortable with it ... anything can happen."* This is one of the boundaries in my marriage where BNOs / GNOs are limited to restaurants and reasonable hours and over the years, we have rarely gone out socially without one another. It's not a spoken boundary, but it's understood.

I'm guessing I'm a bit older (maybe more than a bit older) than you and your husband .... and I come from an Italian American background (you know the old barefoot and pregnant stereotype). I'm sure that my age (mid 50's) and cultural background has shaped my very traditional view of the relationship between a husband and a wife, along with my childhood being ripped apart by infidelity. For me GNOs (or BNOs) at bars/clubs and close opposite sex friends are deal breakers that would get very ugly. I'm very curious how younger women would react if their husbands shared my boundaries.

So, could you predict your reaction if your husband said the above?


----------



## Mostlycontent

nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree: with your middle paragraph 200%
> Way too many people posting for husbands to beware the "playa"!
> Makes more sense to beware the player you're married to.....guys.



While I definitely agree with you in a general sense, it's not always the case. My W is a nice, polite person. She always gets hit on when she used to go out with her girlfriends and I mean always. Of course, it doesn't help that she was virtually always the prettiest girl in any room.

Suffice it to say, my W and her friends were not giving off the "come and get it" vibe. 

I have actually reversed my stance on the whole GNO thing over the years as well. At first, I was completely okay with it but once some of her friends, particularly her newly divorced friend, wanted to start going to the "meat market" club environments, I began to object. 

I told my W that if she wanted to go out dancing, then we should get a baby sitter and go together. I have never been a fan of placing yourself in temptation's way. Some people might think that's a trust issue but I think it's just common sense. As a previous poster said, I wouldn't leave something I value or cherish out in the rain either. I value my marriage and have high interest in protecting it.


----------



## bravenewworld

Mostlycontent said:


> First off, where did I say that married men could and should go out. You seem to be itching for an argument that doesn't exist.
> *
> Secondly, you may not have the experience of getting hit on a lot when you go out but I can tell you that my wife does. She has been hit on numerous times any time she has gone out with the girls. I suppose it depends on what you look like.*
> 
> As I stated before, men are still the aggressors and oftentimes, men can go out with the guys and people watch, trade war stories and get a little buzz and absolutely nothing happens because they don't initiate anything.
> 
> Now women may have the same intent but they end up getting approached by men, flirted with, asked to dance, and hit on throughout the night. Of course, the degree of this occurrence usually depends on how attractive the women are. Again, it's apples and oranges.
> 
> If the women were the aggressors, I'm sure you would not approve of the men folk going out on their own and being approached and otherwise tempted unnecessarily.


One of my best friends is a professional lingerie model - seriously from 1-10 this girl is a 12. Not only in the body department, she is classically beautiful as well. 

Sometimes when we go out, she gets hit on nonstop. Sometimes, not at all. I asked her why that is - her response? 

"10% is probably what I look like, you know, if I did my hair that day or am wearing provocative clothing. The rest is the vibe I put out. Sometimes I put up the ***** wall, other times I have hungry eyes." 

The more I thought about it, the more she is right. As a woman how much I am hit on def depends on body language and the vibe I am sending out. Sure, there are always anomalies, like the guy who tried to dance with me at a bar where I was in baseball cap/book mode, but overall if you are getting hit on nonstop every time you got out, you got them hungry eyes. 

Think about it - pretty rare the hottest girl at the bar is the one with the most suitors. If you've ever watched HBO's Cathouse, Airforce Amy is the highest booked escort of all time and she is not what I would consider a looker.


----------



## ladybird

If they are going to cheat they are going to regardless of where they are.. or who they are with


----------



## Mostlycontent

bravenewworld said:


> One of my best friends is a professional lingerie model - seriously from 1-10 this girl is a 12. Not only in the body department, she is classically beautiful as well.
> 
> Sometimes when we go out, she gets hit on nonstop. Sometimes, not at all. I asked her why that is - her response?
> 
> "10% is probably what I look like, you know, if I did my hair that day or am wearing provocative clothing. The rest is the vibe I put out. Sometimes I put up the ***** wall, other times I have hungry eyes."
> 
> The more I thought about it, the more she is right. As a woman how much I am hit on def depends on body language and the vibe I am sending out. Sure, there are always anomalies, like the guy who tried to dance with me at a bar where I was in baseball cap/book mode, but overall if you are getting hit on nonstop every time you got out, you got them hungry eyes.
> 
> Think about it - pretty rare the hottest girl at the bar is the one with the most suitors. If you've ever watched HBO's Cathouse, Airforce Amy is the highest booked escort of all time and she is not what I would consider a looker.



I actually think it's about 60% to 80% what you look like and the other percentage is on how approachable you are. I can tell you as a man that a more approachable woman, particularly one that is attractive, will get hit on 100% of the time. It's got nothing to do with "hungry eyes" necessarily and everything to do with how you appear. Do you look like a b*tch or do you have some kind of wall up and a snarl or frown on your face. 

Men are the pursuers 99% of the time and even though we're persistent little devils, we're really not interested in being shot down and worse still, embarrassed. If you look like you're in a foul mood, men will avoid you no matter how attractive you are. We're not gluttons for punishment.

However, if you look like a reasonably nice person, you look approachable to men. That's always been my W's biggest problem. She's nice and polite and would practically have to be insulted to ever say anything rude to someone. So if you're a woman and you want to be approached by men, get the scowl off your face and look friendly. And if you're a married woman, just be prepared to be hit on a lot if you don't look threatening.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Mostlycontent said:


> While I definitely agree with you in a general sense, it's not always the case. My W is a nice, polite person. She always gets hit on when she used to go out with her girlfriends and I mean always. Of course, it doesn't help that she was virtually always the prettiest girl in any room.
> 
> Suffice it to say, my W and her friends were not giving off the "come and get it" vibe.
> 
> I have actually reversed my stance on the whole GNO thing over the years as well. At first, I was completely okay with it but once some of her friends, particularly her newly divorced friend, wanted to start going to the "meat market" club environments, I began to object.
> 
> I told my W that if she wanted to go out dancing, then we should get a baby sitter and go together. I have never been a fan of placing yourself in temptation's way. Some people might think that's a trust issue but I think it's just common sense. As a previous poster said, I wouldn't leave something I value or cherish out in the rain either. I value my marriage and have high interest in protecting it.


Sure. And it's a respect issue too. Her going out with single friends to meat markets shows you disrespect if you don't like. And yes it's just like a husband going to strip club over his wife's objections......

When you asked her to stop did she object?


----------



## bandit.45

If my hypothetical girlfriend or fiancée lied to me and went out on a hypothetical GNO to a known meat market with her hypothetical girlfriends, and I found out, the next time she came to my hypothetical house she would see a brand new hypothetical 2015 Harley Davidson Road Glide sitting in my driveway, paid for by the money I was going to spend for her hypothetical engagement ring.


----------



## over20

bandit.45 said:


> If my hypothetical girlfriend or fiancée lied to me and went out on a hypothetical GNO to a known meat market with her hypothetical girlfriends, and I found out, the next time she came to my hypothetical house she would see a brand new hypothetical 2015 Harley Davidson Road Glide sitting in my driveway, paid for by the money I was going to spend for her hypothetical engagement ring.


Bandit, you should also add a new hottie sitting on the bike ready to ride


----------



## jasmine9

I'm not very social so clubs for sure are out of the question for me. I would rather go out to lunch with a bunch of friends.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Lila

Still trying to get a clear picture. Sorry if you've already mentioned but do you get hit on at places you go? Let Guys buy you drinks or dance with you?


----------



## Thundarr

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


This is about trust and boundaries. If my wife wanted to go out with friends to a club and dance, drink, hang out, etc, I'd say 'I love you babe, have a good time' because she's earned this from me. She used to go out with the girls once ever few years.

That being said, going out but saying she was working late would be a huge disrespect. We would separate over it.


----------



## Mostlycontent

nuclearnightmare said:


> Sure. And it's a respect issue too. Her going out with single friends to meat markets shows you disrespect if you don't like. And yes it's just like a husband going to strip club over his wife's objections......
> 
> When you asked her to stop did she object?



She didn't consent right away but did eventually. I think she just really enjoyed the attention after raising 3 kids and not feeling like a woman, but just a mom, for a lot of those years.

This all happened about 5 or 6 years ago when our youngest got a bit older and she got her body back in a major way. I understood her enjoying not feeling invisible anymore, which she insists she did even though she was beautiful. Because of this, I gave her some latitude to enjoy herself even though I was never particularly comfortable about her getting all "dolled up" to go to a club where other men could notice her. That didn't sit well with me.

So I told her that I was going to start going out again as well since she seemed to enjoy it so much. Well after a couple or three times of that, she saw my perspective and decided that she didn't want to go out anymore unless I was with her. 

I thought I'd make her worry about what I may be up to and that got her attention. I couldn't force her to not want to go on GNOs again but I could change her perspective where she decided not to go because she didn't want me to go out with the guys.

Admittedly, I was kind of a d*ck about it in that I told her that if guys were going to flirt with you, come on to you and ask you to dance, that when I went out, I would do the same things with the girls. That meant that I had to do the pursuing. That really got her attention. In that way, in my mind, I could level the playing field.

As I've stated previously, men going out to these places is a bit different because men are the pursuers and unless the men are trying to pick up a woman, nothing is going to happen. Women have a different situation. They can just go somewhere to hang out and the guys pursue them. So in order to make my point to my W, I told her that I have to go with some single friends and we'll see how it shakes out. I was going to make my point and then some. It worked and my W now knows that what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

She hasn't been on a GNO in probably 4 plus years now. It's not that I object to her getting together with friends and having a drink at a bar it's that I object to certain kinds of bars, namely night clubs.

I really don't know what the deal is honestly. If I want a drink with my buddies, we can just go to someone's house and watch a ball game. A lot of women seem to want to go out and be noticed as though that validates them in some way. My W's even made mention of never wanting to feel "invisible, which is never something she worried about until she got in her 40s. That's not a need most of us guys relate to. It seems no matter how many times I told her she was gorgeous, it didn't seem to carry the same weight as her being leered at by other guys on the beach. Maybe she thinks because I'm her husband that I'm no longer capable of being objective. Who knows but that's just bizarre to me. 

I suppose I understand it, to a degree, but I don't feel the need to go to the night club and get noticed by other girls so I can feel good about myself. Perhaps us guys seek validation in other areas. It makes life interesting for sure.


----------



## over20

Mostlycontent said:


> She didn't consent right away but did eventually. I think she just really enjoyed the attention after raising 3 kids and not feeling like a woman, but just a mom, for a lot of those years.
> 
> This all happened about 5 or 6 years ago when our youngest got a bit older and she got her body back in a major way. I understood her enjoying not feeling invisible anymore, which she insists she did even though she was beautiful. Because of this, I gave her some latitude to enjoy herself even though I was never particularly comfortable about her getting all "dolled up" to go to a club where other men could notice her. That didn't sit well with me.
> 
> So I told her that I was going to start going out again as well since she seemed to enjoy it so much. Well after a couple or three times of that, she saw my perspective and decided that she didn't want to go out anymore unless I was with her.
> 
> I thought I'd make her worry about what I may be up to and that got her attention. I couldn't force her to not want to go on GNOs again but I could change her perspective where she decided not to go because she didn't want me to go out with the guys.
> 
> Admittedly, I was kind of a d*ck about it in that I told her that if guys were going to flirt with you, come on to you and ask you to dance, that when I went out, I would do the same things with the girls. That meant that I had to do the pursuing. That really got her attention. In that way, in my mind, I could level the playing field.
> 
> As I've stated previously, men going out to these places is a bit different because men are the pursuers and unless the men are trying to pick up a woman, nothing is going to happen. Women have a different situation. They can just go somewhere to hang out and the guys pursue them. So in order to make my point to my W, I told her that I have to go with some single friends and we'll see how it shakes out. I was going to make my point and then some. It worked and my W now knows that what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
> 
> She hasn't been on a GNO in probably 4 plus years now. It's not that I object to her getting together with friends and having a drink at a bar it's that I object to certain kinds of bars, namely night clubs.
> 
> I really don't know what the deal is honestly. If I want a drink with my buddies, we can just go to someone's house and watch a ball game. A lot of women seem to want to go out and be noticed as though that validates them in some way. My W's even made mention of never wanting to feel "invisible, which is never something she worried about until she got in her 40s. That's not a need most of us guys relate to. It seems no matter how many times I told her she was gorgeous, it didn't seem to carry the same weight as her being leered at by other guys on the beach. Maybe she thinks because I'm her husband that I'm no longer capable of being objective. Who knows but that's just bizarre to me.
> 
> I suppose I understand it, to a degree, but I don't feel the need to go to the night club and get noticed by other girls so I can feel good about myself. Perhaps us guys seek validation in other areas. It makes life interesting for sure.


I think you just made a great point, the fact as to why she needs to get validation from other men. Are there issues in her childhood that are unresolved? I don't want to be mean but could she just be selfish that she needs constant attention? I only ask because most married women love and crave for their one and only their husband, to compliment them and find them the most beautiful woman in the world, and that fills our heart so no other man can compete by giving a happily married women compliments from her own husband.


----------



## Mostlycontent

over20 said:


> I think you just made a great point, the fact as to why she needs to get validation from other men. Are there issues in her childhood that are unresolved? I don't want to be mean but could she just be selfish that she needs constant attention? I only ask because most married women love and crave for their one and only their husband, to compliment them and find them the most beautiful woman in the world, and that fills our heart so no other man can compete by giving a happily married women compliments from her own husband.



I think you're very perceptive and I don't find it mean at all. My W is a genuinely nice person. One of the nicest you'd likely ever meet IMO but her one struggle, if you could even call it that, is vanity.

I suppose she's just used to being the prettiest girl anywhere she goes. She was also the youngest of 4 children and her father's favorite. He just doted on her so I guess that could have something to do with it.

She is surprisingly very low maintenance though and not selfish in the least so it's an interesting dynamic. I find her fascinating even after almost 30 years together.

I was commenting that a lot of women seem to enjoy the attention of other men even though they are married. My W's GNOs were almost always with 2 or 3 other married women yet they preferred to go to the club scenes as opposed to the more serene wine bar type places. Of that group, only 2 of the women are still married. One of the girls, who usually organized the GNO, got divorced a few years back because her own husband was having an affair. Perhaps he was even encouraging her to go out because he had his own thing going on. Go figure.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lila said:


> I typically go with 3 or 4 other girlfriends, but the regulars consist of my neighbor and her sister. It's a GNO in a dancing venue, that's it. No more, no less. We have a few drinks, we laugh, we dance, we people watch, enjoy the vibe, and come home to our husbands.


So a girls night out sans husbands dancing with other men. --check

What kind of dancing? How much physical interaction? Is it look but no touch? Are we touching here?

Role switching here, how many women would be ok with their husbands going out dancing without them? 

I hang out with male and female colleagues on trips. Boundaries get challenged as it is. There is no way I would dance in that scenario. No matter how innocent the intentions might be. Not something my wife would be ok with. Dancing sans spouse seems very much like single behavior to me anyway. This is a very old topic here on TAM. 

And FWIW many Technical Consultants like to party and le their hair down when together. I have seen much behavior that would singe ones landing strip. Yes, married people. Some very hot grinding going on. So convenient t have a hotel room you know.


----------



## Entropy3000

Mostlycontent said:


> She didn't consent right away but did eventually. I think she just really enjoyed the attention after raising 3 kids and not feeling like a woman, but just a mom, for a lot of those years.
> 
> This all happened about 5 or 6 years ago when our youngest got a bit older and she got her body back in a major way. I understood her enjoying not feeling invisible anymore, which she insists she did even though she was beautiful. Because of this, I gave her some latitude to enjoy herself even though I was never particularly comfortable about her getting all "dolled up" to go to a club where other men could notice her. That didn't sit well with me.
> 
> So I told her that I was going to start going out again as well since she seemed to enjoy it so much. Well after a couple or three times of that, she saw my perspective and decided that she didn't want to go out anymore unless I was with her.
> 
> I thought I'd make her worry about what I may be up to and that got her attention. I couldn't force her to not want to go on GNOs again but I could change her perspective where she decided not to go because she didn't want me to go out with the guys.
> 
> Admittedly, I was kind of a d*ck about it in that I told her that if guys were going to flirt with you, come on to you and ask you to dance, that when I went out, I would do the same things with the girls. That meant that I had to do the pursuing. That really got her attention. In that way, in my mind, I could level the playing field.
> 
> As I've stated previously, men going out to these places is a bit different because men are the pursuers and unless the men are trying to pick up a woman, nothing is going to happen. Women have a different situation. They can just go somewhere to hang out and the guys pursue them. So in order to make my point to my W, I told her that I have to go with some single friends and we'll see how it shakes out. I was going to make my point and then some. It worked and my W now knows that what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
> 
> She hasn't been on a GNO in probably 4 plus years now. It's not that I object to her getting together with friends and having a drink at a bar it's that I object to certain kinds of bars, namely night clubs.
> 
> I really don't know what the deal is honestly. If I want a drink with my buddies, we can just go to someone's house and watch a ball game. A lot of women seem to want to go out and be noticed as though that validates them in some way. My W's even made mention of never wanting to feel "invisible, which is never something she worried about until she got in her 40s. That's not a need most of us guys relate to. It seems no matter how many times I told her she was gorgeous, it didn't seem to carry the same weight as her being leered at by other guys on the beach. Maybe she thinks because I'm her husband that I'm no longer capable of being objective. Who knows but that's just bizarre to me.
> 
> I suppose I understand it, to a degree, but I don't feel the need to go to the night club and get noticed by other girls so I can feel good about myself. Perhaps us guys seek validation in other areas. It makes life interesting for sure.


While a husband can tell his wife she looks hot and all the rest really it only goes so far. Many want to know they still have it with other men. In some ways they count for more I suppose. More complex than that.

But all in all you are correct. If this kind of a GNO is ok then it should be ok for the guys. Strip clubs are not the same. Neither is hanging out with other guys at a Sports Bar. 

No the equivalence is just as you have stated so well. To be equivalent you as the guy would need to pursue to be the same. Now you really do not have to pursue to behave unfaithfully. Just receptive. But I agree if we are going to equal out the sexual tension then you would need to play the role. The biggest issue here is that all of this can be playing just the tip. Dancing, if you do it right is a seduction. A mating ritual. Yeah really. Even the seemingly innocent stuff. It is at the least flirting. 

Dressing uber sexy sans pieces of under graments and showing skin sends a message. Look at me. If you want it. Come and get it. This is seductive enough dancing wthout bodies together but bring the bodies together and for many this is better than a lap dance. Perhaps a stolen kiss late in the evening. Oh is that a flashlight or do you think I am sexy. LOL.

Shades of gray in all of this. 50 maybe. But if she can get out and play just the tip ... so can hubby. Every "monogamous" marriage has some degree of openess. Boundaries and actions define this.


----------



## The Middleman

Lila said:


> Boundaries are specific to each individual relationship. As you mentioned, your life experiences shaped your rules for a relationship.
> 
> Assuming that my husband had told me about his life experiences before we married and I still married him, then by default I accepted his rules. GNOs would not be acceptable and that's that. End of story.


Fair enough. Can I assume the answer would be different if you husband had a recent change of heart about the GNOs and just felt it was no longer appropriate?



Lila said:


> I do go there to dance so yes, I do dance with other guys as well as my girlfriends. Hell, I once dragged this poor random guy to the dance floor when Michael Jackson's Off the Wall was played. It's _just_ dancing.


For me this wouldn't fly under any circumstances .... _just dancing_ or not.


----------



## jim123

Lila said:


> Nuclear -
> 
> I have a standing rule that I do not accept drinks from guys. In my experience, people tend to think that they are entitled to your time and attention when they by you a drink. That's not what I'm there for so I discourage that sort of behavior.
> 
> I do go there to dance so yes, I do dance with other guys as well as my girlfriends. Hell, I once dragged this poor random guy to the dance floor when Michael Jackson's Off the Wall was played. It's _just_ dancing.
> 
> As far as getting hit on, that one's a hard question for me to answer because I talk to everyone. I smile, crack jokes, and am generally a friendly, fun-loving person.
> 
> My husband says I get hit on all of the time but I beg to differ. Maybe it's because I don't consider sparking up a conversation and being polite as getting hit on, IMO.
> 
> There have been times where I recognized a guy was in fact hitting on me. But as a woman with a fully functioning adult brain, I used the most powerful words in my arsenal...."No, thanks". Simple really.


All it is going to take is the right guy on the right day. It is just a matter of time.


----------



## bandit.45

Women were better off when they had quilting parties and talked about pickle recipes.


----------



## treyvion

jim123 said:


> All it is going to take is the right guy on the right day. It is just a matter of time.


And enough drinks.


----------



## bandit.45

Lila said:


> If he told me he was uncomfortable with the GNOs now, after 16 years of marriage (20 years together), then I would seek out marriage counseling because there IS a bigger problem underlying his request. There is always a deeper "why" to every request, at least with us. It's never just "because I said so".
> 
> .


No there isn't. Why does there have to be an underlying problem? What's wrong with him just being uncomfortable with what you're doing? 

Oh yeah...his insecurity.


----------



## bandit.45

Lila said:


> The "right guy" can show up on the "right day" walking down the street, or at work, or at the gas station, or wherever.
> .


These are everyday, public domains where the normal safeguards with strangers are in full effect. 

Nightclubs serve one purpose: to provide a venue for strangers to consume alcohol, lower their boundaries, meet other like minded strangers, dance, flirt and possibly hook up for a night of naughty. 

Stop deluding yourself. Continue on this path and one day the "right" man will indeed come along and you will find yourself tempted. 

You are human just like the rest of us, and yes, you can be tempted. Don't think you are somehow stronger. Pride cometh before the fall.


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> So a girls night out sans husbands dancing with other men. --check
> 
> What kind of dancing? How much physical interaction? Is it look but no touch? Are we touching here?
> 
> Role switching here, how many women would be ok with their husbands going out dancing without them?
> 
> I hang out with male and female colleagues on trips. Boundaries get challenged as it is. There is no way I would dance in that scenario. No matter how innocent the intentions might be. Not something my wife would be ok with. Dancing sans spouse seems very much like single behavior to me anyway. This is a very old topic here on TAM.
> 
> And FWIW many Technical Consultants like to party and le their hair down when together. I have seen much behavior that would singe ones landing strip. Yes, married people. Some very hot grinding going on. So convenient t have a hotel room you know.


A 'girl's night out' versus a 'lifestyle of girl's night outs' is a big distinction. I have expectations of my wife that she can be respectful of her marriage, her self, and me whether I'm with her or not. That's really not too much to expect IMO. To me marriage is for adults with good boundaries. So yea I think frequent GNOs is in conflict to a healthy marriage. I also think forbidding a rare GNO is in conflict to a healthy marriage.


----------



## bandit.45

Lila said:


> There's ALWAYS a reason and if it's insecurity, then I need to ask why again. Why is he insecure?


I don't know Lila. Why is he insecure?

Maybe he's insecure because he has a wife who leaves him at home to go out and dance with other men.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lila said:


> Each individual relationship has it's own dynamics. What works for us may not work for you. It's not right or wrong, but different.
> 
> Our life experiences shape how we see the world. It's natural to fear activities where we've only seen negative outcomes.
> 
> I didn't post on this thread to try to push some sort of pro-GNO agenda on everyone. I shared my experiences to bring some balance to a topic that is mostly represented as negative on this forum.


As I said each marriage has its own level of openess.

It is one thing to go into marriage knowing what this level will be or evolve into. Few young couples are anything but naive about these things. They are so full of hormones and idealism which are both awesome I might add, that they do not look for possible issues down the road. Why would they afterall? 

So while in general I tell guys that if they marry a party girl ( taking this to the extreme as a test case ) then they should not be surprised if this continues. BUT, it does not have to continue if the couple set such boundaries as the start of their marriage. Some couples take time to transistion into being married. They have made a great change but still think single in many ways. More often than not there is an expection, an assumption that things will change. Without communicating such. For many this is worked out prior to the formality of marriage. 

What can happen however is that we all evolve. Boundaries can begin to loosen up. Seven year itch. It can work both eways but it is common enough for a woman to have a couple of kids and want to change the ground rules of the marriage. They basically want to interact with other men. Like it or not most men in those scenarios are looking for the fun of unteracting with women, but would like to knock off a piece. No doubt that acts as part of the excitement here. Being wanted sexually is a kick.

For some, not all certainly this is really dipping their toes into the single waters again. It is cn be quite risky. So many factors here.

Just dancing. Indeed. It could be. This gets even more risky if the group are comprosed of singles or those in not so awesome marriages. ALL marriges have rough times. Hence the reference to "at the right time". The venue itself is one layer of choice in boundaries. Drinking is another. And so on. You know the drill. 

The thing is no matter the woman's intentions she is putting herself into a place where most people are looking for more than just dancing. You dancing with a guy as mundane as you may feel is one level of acceptance and a level of yes.

In no way am I judging you. Many husbands and wives are not ok with this from their spouse. I think at any time in a marriage a spouse can challenge these things. They may just be maturing and start to realize the dangers. It may not be because their is any problem with them. They may just realize that the marriage is more important to them now that they have invested so much in it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Thundarr said:


> A 'girl's night out' versus a 'lifestyle of girl's night outs' is a big distinction. I have expectations of my wife that she can be respectful of her marriage, her self, and me whether I'm with her or not. That's really not too much to expect IMO. To me marriage is for adults with good boundaries. So yea I think frequent GNOs is in conflict to a healthy marriage. I also think forbidding a rare GNO is in conflict to a healthy marriage.


I see the difference of course. Again shades of gray. 

We throw around GNO like it is a defined thing. Like a GNO has to mean, drinking, flirting and dancing and being out until the wee hours.

I think as long as that is ok for the guy then wondermous. Hey babe. Yeah I am going to go out Friday night with Julio. Yeah the single guy you think is so hot. He knows this Salsa place and I want to go check it out. Don't wait up.


----------



## bandit.45

Lila said:


> Beat you to it.


Hope it didn't chafe too badly.....


----------



## Entropy3000

Lila said:


> There's ALWAYS a reason and if it's insecurity, then I need to ask why again. Why is he insecure?


I would be jealous of my wife wanting to do this with other men.

I would be insecure if my wife wanted to do this with other men.

I would be controlling in that this would not be acceptable to me. Now not really controlling because she could go do whatever she wants sans me. But I can control myself.

Jealousy and insecurity are not good or bad by themselves. They are feelings that we have important to our own survival. Whether they are irrational or not are a whole other thing.

While you can meet someone anywhere, there are venues that have extra risk. 

Few heterosexual men go dancing with women just because they love dancing only. They are going there to meet women and pursue them.


----------



## Entropy3000

So is it ok for husbands to do this too?

Again Sports Bars and even Strip Clubs are not the same.


----------



## bandit.45

Lila said:


> I agree with you on the jealousy and insecurity thing, and if that were ever to become an issue in our relationship then I'd have to address it at the time.
> 
> But the bolded part brings up an important question. Someone give up something they enjoy doing because of the "danger" perceived by their partner?


If you like to dance so much the why not just go take a dance class somewhere...like tap or jazz or even ballroom? Those places don't include booze and dark and DJs and horny men. They are safe environments overseen by an instructor. 

Why don't yo be honest? You like clubbing because you like letting loose and you like the attention of strange men...without your husband there to be annoyingly insecure.


----------



## Mostlycontent

Lila said:


> There's ALWAYS a reason and if it's insecurity, then I need to ask why again. Why is he insecure?



I would agree with Bandit in that it's not always about a spouse's insecurity. I really don't mind if my W wants to do a very occasional GNO. Back when my W's friend was organizing their GNOs, they were having them about every 6 to 8 weeks, which was too much for my liking.

As Bandit was implying, it's about guarding the relationship. I love and trust my teenage son but I also give him a curfew. It's not that he would misbehave without one but that he's much less likely to if he's got some accountability. The same is true, perhaps in a more general sense, with a spouse. Frequent GNO/BNO's and staying out at the clubs until the wee hours is a lack of accountability, which I believe isn't good for anyone - teenager or adult for that matter.

I hesitate to use the term, speaking for most men, but I think the real issue with more than the occasional GNO, is the fear that the woman may become tempted by someone else. I don't mean that I ever feared that my W would do something ultra stupid and foolish like go home with another guy. I was more concerned that on the right night and meeting the right guy that she would find someone else intriguing and that would plant a tiny seed of discontent or dissatisfaction with what she has at home. That would or could become a very dangerous thing in a marriage.

If I was going on frequent BNOs and was constantly seeing young, hot women, would it not be normal to begin to compare them to my W and to become less content with what I had and even entertain thoughts of a different, younger version of my wife? Not that this would happen, mind you, but it certainly could if I placed myself in that situation enough times.

I just think caution is the better route when it comes to these things and it's not necessarily indicative of some grave insecurity.


----------



## Decorum

Lila said:


> I didn't post on this thread to try to push some sort of pro-GNO agenda on everyone. I shared my experiences to bring some balance to a topic that is mostly represented as negative on this forum.


I can appreciate and respect a poster who has this as a motive.
You can sanely discuss and move on. That is helpful.



Lila said:


> I do go there to dance so yes, I do dance with other guys as well as my girlfriends. Hell, I once dragged this poor random guy to the dance floor when Michael Jackson's Off the Wall was played. It's _just_ dancing.
> 
> *Which means that it is, fun. Moving to the music, enjoying the activity etc. I will admit to taking aerobic classes when they (eh-hem!) first became popular (a few years ago I was a young married man, My wife and I just had our first child about 6 months old at the time, ha ha now he is 26.) I completely enjoyed the activity, especially the cool downs, all warmed up and moving well it was very enjoyable. I was in my own little endorphin high, the instructor noticed and tended to zone me in after that, I became uncomfortable with her after that, she was a very attractive woman. I was innocently enjoying the activity but her interest and attention, became something I had to "manage", awkard! wedding ring meant nothing to her I guess, it became clear to her I was not interested, and she went back into "obscure Instructor mode".
> 
> This was at a YMCA in a class, I was athletic but was trying to lose my recently gained several lbs of baby fat ha ha.
> 
> Lila, I understand that this may not have a sexual component for you, no temptation, arousal or fantasy's, but like the Aerobics Instructor the men who approach you may be looking for more then just fun, it's natural/normal so no bad on them BTW, and you are probably managing that well.
> *
> 
> As far as getting hit on, that one's a hard question for me to answer because I talk to everyone. I smile, crack jokes, and am generally a friendly, fun-loving person.
> 
> 
> 
> My husband says I get hit on all of the time but I beg to differ.
> 
> *Mating is a normal part of life, that's what many of these men would be interested in, if you beg to differ you are in denial, why would you doubt your husbands perspective, he is a man after all.*
> 
> But as a woman with a fully functioning adult brain, I used the most powerful words in my arsenal...."No, thanks". Simple really.
> 
> *Exactly, and this is what people mean that if you are connected to your partner that you have a natural emotional defense to would be suitors. Additionally some women/men keep their volitional commitments, others not so much. It sounds like you are one of those that does.
> 
> Many men do not care about marriage as they seek a sexual partner. I work with a man who typifies this he says "if your wife is ok with it so am I" and so he pursues. I think it is vile but a very natural perspective for the male animal.*
> 
> *There is a risk for an individual whose resolve or relationship is not as firm as your own. There is a heightened sexual aspect to a place like a YMCA because of the activity and clothing, it's not intense but it is heightened, same is true for some clubs. People have to respect their own limitations. Are those without those unmet needs/insecurities safe, IDK. What percentage of people are insecurity free? Again IDK I could only be in the control group for that one haha.*
> 
> *Regards.*
> 
> .


----------



## The Middleman

Lila said:


> But the bolded part brings up an important question. Should someone give up something they enjoy doing because of the "danger" perceived by their partner?


I think the answer depends on 

How serious the partner is about the perceived danger and insisting on the boundary. 
Will not adhering to the boundary change the dynamics of the relationship and how he feels about you? 
Is he willing to risk the relationship if you insist on continuing the activity?
How important is the activity to you? Is it something you strongly feel you can't give up or is it a matter of you not wanting to be told what you can or can not do?
Is the activity important enough to risk your relationship?
At some point these disputes devolve into a battle of wills and a strong examination of what each partner can and can not live with is needed.


----------



## The Middleman

Entropy3000 said:


> We throw around GNO like it is a defined thing. Like a GNO has to mean, drinking, flirting and dancing and being out until the wee hours.


I've never really had any issue with my wife going away for a weekend with her sisters (until her younger sister saw fit to re-connect my wife with one of her EX's) or going out to dinner with her friends from work, she's been doing it for years. I trust her, but I also verify. Any place where there are men, alcohol and dancing and the hours aren't 'reasonable' is a non starter.


----------



## jim123

Lila said:


> The "right guy" can show up on the "right day" walking down the street, or at work, or at the gas station, or wherever.
> 
> _Far more likely in a bar. It is a matter of time. You are one foot in already and have justified it well._
> 
> That's why it's important to limit alcohol consumption at any venue, not just a club/bar. I limit my drinking to 2 alcoholic beverages and I don't accept drinks from anyone.


----------



## retiredvet

I would let her indulge (In my particular situation, I have nothing to fear as she has never given me a reason to keep her on lock down). At the stage of life I am at, i dont want to have to baby sit...Ccan control what a grown person is going to do (I hope she would think of the consequence of her action if she strayed).


----------



## Decorum

FrenchFry said:


> This is fun, huh Lila?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...te-sex-friendship-am-i-being-unresonable.html

Here is an interesting thread on opposite sex friends. Now this thread has it all.


----------



## treyvion

Entropy3000 said:


> I would be jealous of my wife wanting to do this with other men.
> 
> I would be insecure if my wife wanted to do this with other men.
> 
> I would be controlling in that this would not be acceptable to me. Now not really controlling because she could go do whatever she wants sans me. But I can control myself.
> 
> Jealousy and insecurity are not good or bad by themselves. They are feelings that we have important to our own survival. Whether they are irrational or not are a whole other thing.
> 
> While you can meet someone anywhere, there are venues that have extra risk.
> 
> Few heterosexual men go dancing with women just because they love dancing only. They are going there to meet women and pursue them.


We do have fun dancing with women.


----------



## Thundarr

Lila said:


> Don't assume that only the pretty girls get hit on at clubs. The guys I see at the clubs who are strictly there to get laid, will start at the top and work their way down. They'll get to the point where they won't care what the woman looks like just as long as she's got a vagina. Just saying.


This isn't directed at you Lila. It's more a generalization (yes the dirty word). Pretty girls aren't the big targets at dance clubs. Girls who exude sex appeal though movement and flirtatious cues get the most attention. Clubs and dance can be an equalizer for girls who want to be more desired by men. For many bar and dance flies, that's a big dynamic of why they like it. Everyone likes to feel wanted. To get an ego boost and feel hot.

So can a married woman club every every chance she gets just for the love of dance, friendship, and relaxing? Sure why not. Is that usually the case? Not even close. The vast magority are there for the attention they get. It's a huge red flag and something most husbands don't like. Some like E3000 say don't do it ever. Other's like me say once in a blue moon because I think my wife avoids those pitfalls. Others like your husband are comfortable with 5-6 times a year. The bottom line is that environments of temptation with alcohol and sexuality (dance) is dangerous enough for a marriage. Then add self esteem, external validation, and ego dynamics. It's like jogging with a bottle of nitroglycerin.


----------



## Thundarr

Lila said:


> I agree with you on the jealousy and insecurity thing, and if that were ever to become an issue in our relationship then I'd have to address it at the time.
> 
> But the bolded part brings up an important question. Should someone give up something they enjoy doing because of the "danger" perceived by their partner?


Marriage is about compromise. I'm sure you both make sacrifices daily. If things are good then it's worth it. But people give up many things they enjoy. Think clubbing, strip clubs, alcohol, cigarettes, pornography, high risk employment, high risk hobbies, etc. I'm not saying you should change anything by the way. But your question is too simple in it's implication.


----------



## Thundarr

FrenchFry said:


> This is fun, huh Lila?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lila is the lone 'let momma dance' voice. It sounds like her and hubby have something that works and they trust and respect each other. That's a good thing.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Lila said:


> Like I said earlier, I didn't post my experiences as a rally to all married to demand their GNOs. It was only to bring some balance to the argument.
> 
> TBH, I did expect some backlash but I do greatly appreciate those TAM men who provided the level headed responses on GNOs and didn't just attack me for sharing my lifestyle.


I wonder if they attack you, I for instance believe you are sincere in your opinions and actions.

- right now where you are in your life -

If you are a little older you happen to notice the youthful enthusiasm of couples going to live life differently than the old boring people. And then....most of the women get fat, most of the guys become couch potatoes....

So, THEN the GNO and BNO dynamics in night club atmosphere, dancing with the other gender becomes something not so innocent. And your lifestyle has the perfect setup for this to go effortless in affair territory.

Maybe that's why people react to your story. Not personnally, but because the perfect image you display, really is paradise, until it isn't anymore.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> So is it ok for husbands to do this too?
> 
> Again Sports Bars and even *Strip Clubs* are not the same.


Oh boy. Ent3k I can honestly say you are one of my favorite posters on here, but.... I disagree with you. I'll agree that sports bars for the most part aren't a threat.

But I completely disagree about strip clubs. Maybe I'm breaking man code here but most of the men on TAM swear up and down that nothing bad ever happens at strip clubs. I have found this not to be the case at all. There is _sex_ in the champagne room. I don't care what the Chris Rock song says (sorry Deejo, I know you're a fan of the song).


----------



## committed4ever

ReformedHubby said:


> Oh boy. Ent3k I can honestly say you are one of my favorite posters on here, but.... I disagree with you. I'll agree that sports bars for the most part aren't a threat.
> 
> But I completely disagree about strip clubs. Maybe I'm breaking man code here but most of the men on TAM swear up and down that nothing bad ever happens at strip clubs. I have found this not to be the case at all. There is _sex_ in the champagne room. I don't care what the Chris Rock song says (sorry Deejo, I know you're a fan of the song).


I WOULD NOT be ok with my H going to a strip club to look at women (isn't that the only reason for going?). If he want to look at a woman strip he can look at me. I'm not that hard on the eyes. LOL!


----------



## Marduk

ReformedHubby said:


> Oh boy. Ent3k I can honestly say you are one of my favorite posters on here, but.... I disagree with you. I'll agree that sports bars for the most part aren't a threat.
> 
> But I completely disagree about strip clubs. Maybe I'm breaking man code here but most of the men on TAM swear up and down that nothing bad ever happens at strip clubs. I have found this not to be the case at all. There is _sex_ in the champagne room. I don't care what the Chris Rock song says (sorry Deejo, I know you're a fan of the song).


I don't think the worry is that you'll screw around in a strip club, the worry is that:
#1 you're going somewhere specifically to look at hot naked women
#2 you're going to get turned on by hot naked women that aren't your wife

Honestly, I've gotten hit on a lot more at sports bars than in strip clubs. Strip clubs are usually full of dudes. Sports bars quite often contain tables full of women looking for dudes.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Lila:

it's me again with a couple more questions. BTW for your cooperation in answering my questions I've decided to grant you immunity from my judgement (mine, at least  )

I'm not a drinker and am a 100% non-dancer so I have practically no direct experience with these kinds of places:

-- does "dance" mean what it used to mean in that most songs are faster, stand at a distance stuff. But there a few "slow" dances??

-- hypothetical....say your husband had a good male friend that liked to go to the exact same type of place you go to, convinced your H to come along and this became a recurring thing your H did. your H has the same boundaries as you, limit alcohol and no buying women drinks. but otherwise he joins in - strikes up conversations with women, asks them to dance etc. 
how would you feel about that?


----------



## BashfulB

committed4ever said:


> I WOULD NOT be ok with my H going to a strip club to look at women (isn't that the only reason for going?). If he want to look at a woman strip he can look at me. I'm not that hard on the eyes. LOL!



Would you as a wife see any difference between a woman on a GNO doing the bump and grind with a strange man on the dance floor, and a husband getting a lap dance at a strip joint with his buddies?

The only difference I see is that the stripper is topless, but I have been to dance places where the women grind the crotches and buts on men's legs and groins.

In each case some part of the body is getting stimulated. 

In most strip clubs a patron is not allowed to touch the dancer with his hands. She does all the touching. But at a nightclub, hands of dance partners are going everywhere over each other's bodies.


----------



## bravenewworld

BashfulBull said:


> Would you as a wife see any difference between a woman on a GNO doing the bump and grind with a strange man on the dance floor, and a husband getting a lap dance at a strip joint with his buddies?
> 
> The only difference I see is that the stripper is topless, but I have been to dance places where the women grind the crotches and buts on men's legs and groins.
> 
> In each case some part of the body is getting stimulated.
> 
> In most strip clubs a patron is not allowed to touch the dancer with his hands. She does all the touching. But at a nightclub, hands of dance partners are going everywhere over each other's bodies.


The difference is a lot of strippers will def engage in sex acts for the right price. Dude, some guys wear sweatpants w/out underwear to the club so they can get their grind on. By the time they leave - they have a wet spot on their junk. 

Strip club is way more offensive to a marriage than GNO.....and I say this as a woman who had no prob with her husband going to strip clubs. We are now divorced.


----------



## ReformedHubby

bravenewworld said:


> The difference is a lot of strippers will def engage in sex acts for the right price. Dude, some guys wear sweatpants w/out underwear to the club so they can get their grind on. By the time they leave - they have a wet spot on their junk.
> 
> Strip club is way more offensive to a marriage than GNO.....and I say this as a woman who had no prob with her husband going to strip clubs. We are now divorced.


:iagree:


----------



## LostViking

bravenewworld said:


> The difference is a lot of strippers will def engage in sex acts for the right price. Dude, some guys wear sweatpants w/out underwear to the club so they can get their grind on. By the time they leave - they have a wet spot on their junk.
> 
> Strip club is way more offensive to a marriage than GNO.....and I say this as a woman who had no prob with her husband going to strip clubs. We are now divorced.


I agree, but I also see where BB is coming from. I've been to many many nightclubs here in LA and I have danced with married women on GNOs, and from my experience you would not know they were married except for their rings. They act and dress like tramps. They grab men's butts while they are dancing. Many don't wear underwear, they drink like hobos, and they cuss like sailors. I've had my butt grabbed many a time by women I've danced with, many of them married. 

I danced with a woman in her mid forties one night a few months back. She had a huge rock on her finger, she was obviously married wealthy, and she could not keep her hands off my chest, my butt and she also slipped her phone number next to my drink on her way out of the club. The whole time she danced with me she was flirting like mad. She was definitely the aggressor. I was shocked and admittedly turned off by her blatant behavior. Her girlfriends all acted similarly.


----------



## Thundarr

bravenewworld said:


> The difference is a lot of strippers will def engage in sex acts for the right price. Dude, some guys wear sweatpants w/out underwear to the club so they can get their grind on. By the time they leave - they have a wet spot on their junk.
> 
> Strip club is way more offensive to a marriage than GNO.....and I say this as a woman who had no prob with her husband going to strip clubs. We are now divorced.


Both environments are equally offensive to marriage in my opinion and are geared for singles. Some married men and women do just fine at either though.

At strip clubs, men see sexy women nude or almost nude and have these women act interested in them. It's a turn on for them because we are visually stimulated. And it's an ego boost for those who pretend or think the flirting isn't fake. At dance clubs, women move sexual to get men to want them. It's a turn on for them because being wanted is a turn on. And it's an ego boost.

Some women are fine with their husband looking at other women and knowing he gets turned on by it. Some men are fine with their wife dancing sexy and knowing she gets turned on by it. But the two environments are both sexual in nature and very similar in how it fits with a particular marriage. Again IMO.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> Oh boy. Ent3k I can honestly say you are one of my favorite posters on here, but.... I disagree with you. I'll agree that sports bars for the most part aren't a threat.
> 
> But I completely disagree about strip clubs. Maybe I'm breaking man code here but most of the men on TAM swear up and down that nothing bad ever happens at strip clubs. I have found this not to be the case at all. There is _sex_ in the champagne room. I don't care what the Chris Rock song says (sorry Deejo, I know you're a fan of the song).


I have seen guys drop $500 in the VIP room. But I see the club as a body exchange. Something as a greater risk. More possiblitiy for a follow up. A phone number. You start going to the same place and see the regulars. I also see it as more dangerous period.
The stripper wants your money. At a club there is more going on potentially.


----------



## Entropy3000

committed4ever said:


> I WOULD NOT be ok with my H going to a strip club to look at women (isn't that the only reason for going?). If he want to look at a woman strip he can look at me. I'm not that hard on the eyes. LOL!


I hate strip clubs. When I was a 19 y/o sailor they were fine. 

My boundary is look but don;t touch but I do not like strip clubs anyway. But no, these days guys go to strip clubs for lap dances.

If all people did was look at strip clubs they would not be so risky. This goes for both genders.

But you do not go to a strip club to pick up a woman. Yuck. You go to a club.


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## Entropy3000

Lila said:


> I'm probably an outlier on these forums so my answer is probably not the norm. But FWIW, my husband goes to bars to listen to live music occasionally on his BNO's. From what I've seen, the atmosphere is similar to that of a dance club but with different music and a different ambiance/crowd. He too limits his alcohol intake to 2 drinks. He's never given me a reason to doubt his actions. So long story short, I'm okay with him doing this.


So he dances with other women then? You are ok with this?

BTW, I think GNOs are awesome. But why does a GNO mean going to a club and dancing with other men? Just like a BNO does not have to mean going to the stirp club or going to the dance club to grope or pick up women. But I toally agree going out dancing with the opposite sex is a lot of fun.


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## See_Listen_Love

LostViking said:


> I agree, but I also see where BB is coming from. I've been to many many nightclubs here in LA and I have danced with married women on GNOs, and from my experience you would not know they were married except for their rings. They act and dress like tramps. They grab men's butts while they are dancing. Many don't wear underwear, they drink like hobos, and they cuss like sailors. I've had my butt grabbed many a time by women I've danced with, many of them married.
> 
> I danced with a woman in her mid forties one night a few months back. She had a huge rock on her finger, she was obviously married wealthy, and she could not keep her hands off my chest, my butt and she also slipped her phone number next to my drink on her way out of the club. The whole time she danced with me she was flirting like mad. She was definitely the aggressor. I was shocked and admittedly turned off by her blatant behavior. Her girlfriends all acted similarly.


Thanks for the clarity, I would say these observations form the end of the discussion. GNO's acceptability depends completely on the practical implementation.


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## Entropy3000

See_Listen_Love said:


> Thanks for the clarity, I would say these observations form the end of the discussion. GNO's acceptability depends completely on the practical implementation.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## samyeagar

Entropy3000 said:


> So he dances with other women then? You are ok with this?
> 
> BTW, I think GNOs are awesome. *But why does a GNO mean going to a club and dancing with other men?* Just like a BNO does not have to mean going to the stirp club or going to the dance club to grope or pick up women. But I toally agree going out dancing with the opposite sex is a lot of fun.


At the point the Girls Night Out involves men, it is no longer a Girls Night Out.


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## Marduk

LostViking said:


> I agree, but I also see where BB is coming from. I've been to many many nightclubs here in LA and I have danced with married women on GNOs, and from my experience you would not know they were married except for their rings. They act and dress like tramps. They grab men's butts while they are dancing. Many don't wear underwear, they drink like hobos, and they cuss like sailors. I've had my butt grabbed many a time by women I've danced with, many of them married.
> 
> I danced with a woman in her mid forties one night a few months back. She had a huge rock on her finger, she was obviously married wealthy, and she could not keep her hands off my chest, my butt and she also slipped her phone number next to my drink on her way out of the club. The whole time she danced with me she was flirting like mad. She was definitely the aggressor. I was shocked and admittedly turned off by her blatant behavior. Her girlfriends all acted similarly.


I've seen this, too. And it freaks the **** out of me.

However, last time we were away, both my wife and I saw other married women do this. We chatted about it. We watched it. We analyzed it.

What I realized is:
- Not one of the women we saw doing this was attractive. Not. A. One. I'm sure it might happen, but man, most of these women were some combination of out of shape, not aged well, and not dressed well.

- These women bounced from man to man to man until someone almost took pity on them and gave them the time of day. Even unattractive guys were pretty turned off by them. I mean, one woman just walked up to this overweight dude and said "I'm horny, take me up to your room" just like that. The guy laughed at her.

- These women clearly new what they were doing, and clearly this was a lifestyle choice. By which I mean that the husbands have to eventually know something is up. They weren't trying to hide anything AT ALL. I strongly suspect this type of personality doesn't cover their tracks well, and doesn't just go out on one GNO or girl's trip a year and screw around. This is clearly a common event.


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## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> I have seen guys drop $500 in the VIP room. But I see the club as a body exchange. Something as a greater risk. More possiblitiy for a follow up. A phone number. You start going to the same place and see the regulars. I also see it as more dangerous period.
> The stripper wants your money. At a club there is more going on potentially.


I probably should expand a bit on maybe why my experiences have been a bit different. I've seen a few guys mostly C-level execs/and or business owners at high end strip clubs bring man purses (stop laughing, nothing wrong with murses!) into the strip club with thousands of dollars. They get a lot of attention and often leave with the girls.

Also, it really depends on the type of strip club you're talking about. If you go to one in an area that many would describe as "sketchy" or "hood". The rules and what they are offering are completely different.


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## BashfulB

Lila said:


> I too agree with this statement. It's not about the venue, but about what one chooses to do at the venue that can make the experience positive or negative.


Until you run into that one man. That one man who you find so irresistible and with whom you have such an instant spark that you just melt into him. 

Do not think you are above such temptation. None of us are.


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## bravenewworld

Lila said:


> I know that neither hubby or I are above temptation but I also know that we can't live in fear of the what ifs.
> 
> I can only speak for myself, but my interest in going to clubs is strictly for dancing. Are there women looking to hook up? Absolutely. Am I one of them? No. Using a broad brush to paint all women who go to clubs as primed and ready for an affair is not fair.


Totally agree. Personally, I am so low risk I could be at an orgy and I wouldn't cheat. However, if I was at a cookie factory and told I couldn't eat anything, that would be a HUGE problem. As in, I would be sitting on my hands not to eat cookies. Notice the weight loss ticker. 

We all have our own vices. Going out dancing or having a GNO dinner does not even remotely tempt me to cheat, even with a Johnny Depp look-alike. Your mileage/comfort level may vary though, and I think it's great when couples together decide what's fair and BOTH abide by it. If she can't have a GNO at a nightclub, then he definitely should not be at a strip club. Double standard for sure. 

One thing I've noticed now that I am single (and it really irks me) is when a female friend won't go out at all without her husband. I would totally be understanding if she didn't want to go to bars/clubs but I'm talking daytime shopping, lunch, etc. Some women literally never leave the husbands at home! It's baffling. If I was a guy, I wouldn't want to slow walk with us through the mall eating frozen yogurt.


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## Thundarr

BashfulBull said:


> Until you run into that one man. That one man who you find so irresistible and with whom you have such an instant spark that you just melt into him.
> 
> Do not think you are above such temptation. None of us are.


Bashful, you're not giving women any credit at all. I understand the argument of avoiding temptation and all but eventually we will be tested.

Years back I consulted out of town for a six months and rented a place with a two co-workers. I'd been with my wife for a year or so. So one guy had a thing for call girls and once a week a young girl would be knocking on the door (he wasn't married so whatever). He offered to hook me and the other roommate up (his treat). My roommate took that offer and I did not. There was no way for us to get caught so why didn't I do it? Do unto others....

In short, character matters and it's not gender specific. Expect nothing less than loyalty and make sure it's known. Then give your partner freedom to prove it.


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## MaritimeGuy

LostViking said:


> I agree, but I also see where BB is coming from. I've been to many many nightclubs here in LA and I have danced with married women on GNOs, and from my experience you would not know they were married except for their rings. They act and dress like tramps. They grab men's butts while they are dancing. Many don't wear underwear, they drink like hobos, and they cuss like sailors. I've had my butt grabbed many a time by women I've danced with, many of them married.
> 
> I danced with a woman in her mid forties one night a few months back. She had a huge rock on her finger, she was obviously married wealthy, and she could not keep her hands off my chest, my butt and she also slipped her phone number next to my drink on her way out of the club. The whole time she danced with me she was flirting like mad. She was definitely the aggressor. I was shocked and admittedly turned off by her blatant behavior. Her girlfriends all acted similarly.


I really don't see this woman's husband barring her from going on GNO's stopping this woman from cheating...


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## bjchristian

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?
> 
> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


Need to find out the underlying reason why she is deceiving you. It is not the event that is a problem, but the hidden elements which caused this event to occur in the first place.

If it's just a misunderstanding, I don't care if my partner goes out to a gno. I don't even care what they do. She should have fun.


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## vellocet

EleGirl said:


> For the guys, what would you say if your wife wanted to go out for a girl's night out to a place where drinks and partying were going on (not a movie or dinner in a quiet restaurant)?


Been there, done that. Even when completely trusting them, it rarely ended well.

And because of my experiences, I wouldn't want a committed partner that parties.

I know a lot of people will say that hooking up isn't the main reason to party. But I don't buy it.




> What would you say if she told you that she was working late and instead went out partying with her friends? Then you find out about her attempt to deceive you?


Well, the marriage would be in definite turmoil. And no longer being married, IF I ended up in a committed relationship again and found this out, she'd be history.


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## vellocet




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