# So ladies... Help! Please interpret this text from my wife from a ladies standpoint.



## Trying2figureitout

Some of you know my story.

So tonight I got the "truth" out on my wife keep in mind this is now over TWO years from her original disconnect and ILYNILWYA speech. No cheating I'm aware of and yes I've snooped a lot. Last two months she seemed much closer to me but then I guess I pushed her a little too far last night by leaving her a gift bag with items and a "nice" note.

This was after I gave her items to help with libido...after that she seemed short with me so I pressed her on a reason tonight via text an hour later this was her response....

....*I need time to fall in love with you again. That is my problem*... (not a libido issue take the items back)

Keep in mind her and I had sex last time in July. Only 7 times in two years since ILYNILWY. Lately I had been pressuring her at bit at the two year point to make a decision of which way this was going... she seemed to be moving closer. Until tonight. At least I got clarity evidently its not her libido (Although I do believe she has a low libido... we only averaged 15-20 times per year before married (18 years ) she is now 45)

Keep in mind I've "fixed" all my behaviors already even gave up drinking cold turkey that night. She along time ago said you have done great..its me.

So what is the prognosis... dire? or Just wait her out? I'm getting tired of waiting for her to figure this out, I need sex this is sort of crazy!

Need advice. How should I proceed?
I still love her and we have two teenage boys.


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## EleGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Some of you know my story.
> 
> So tonight I got the "truth" out on my wife keep in mind this is now over TWO years from her original disconnect and ILYNILWYA speech. No cheating I'm aware of and yes I've snooped a lot. Last two months she seemed much closer to me but then I guess I pushed her a little too far last night by leaving her a gift bag with items and a "nice" note.
> 
> This was after I gave her items to help with libido...after that she seemed short with me so I pressed her on a reason tonight via text an hour later this was her response....
> 
> ....*I need time to fall in love with you again. That is my problem*... (not a libido issue take the items back)
> 
> Keep in mind her and I had sex last time in July. Only 7 times in two years since ILYNILWY. Lately I had been pressuring her at bit at the two year point to make a decision of which way this was going... she seemed to be moving closer. Until tonight. At least I got clarity evidently its not her libido (Although I do believe she has a low libido... we only averaged 15-20 times per year before married 18 she is 45)
> 
> Keep in mind I've "fixed" all my behaviors already even gave up drinking cold turkey that night. She along time ago said you have done great..its me.
> 
> So what is the prognosis... dire? or Just wait her out? I'm getting tired of waiting for her to figure this out, I need sex this is sort of crazy!
> 
> Need advice. How should I proceed?
> I still love her and we have two teenage boys.


She still does not feel the passion, probably the passion that was there when you dated and married.

Her needs are not being met.

Have the two of you worked out your needs?


How much time a week do you spend together doing date type things?


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## Darkhorse

I don't know how you do it. I would have left while she "found" whatever she was looking for. She knows she has the upper hand and it doesn't bother her to use it.

I have no answers to help you...I just think 2 years is a long time to hope the spark comes back. Life is short...however, in a situation like this, it can seem so very, very long.


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## COGypsy

So if I remember right, two years ago she loved you, but wasn't 'in love' with you. And now, two years later, it's not that she doesn't get horny, her libido is just fine, thank you. It's really just that she needs more than these last two years you've spent bending over backwards in order to fall back 'in love' with you again. 

What's confusing about that?

Nothing's changed. She still gets everything she's always had and you're spending Friday night with Rosie and her five sisters. What could be wrong with that when it's already worked for years, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout

EleGirl said:


> She still does not feel the passion, probably the passion that was there when you dated and married.
> 
> Her needs are not being met.
> 
> Have the two of you worked out your needs?
> 
> 
> How much time a week do you spend together doing date type things?



Lately we have "dated" quite often she was moving closer in fact she asked me twice to go out with her and some friends.

My needs are quality time and physical touch... hers ???
I'd like to find out if she'd let me. She says what i do is great that's its all her. Like that helps.


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## Trying2figureitout

COGypsy said:


> So if I remember right, two years ago she loved you, but wasn't 'in love' with you. And now, two years later, it's not that she doesn't get horny, her libido is just fine, thank you. It's really just that she needs more than these last two years you've spent bending over backwards in order to fall back 'in love' with you again.
> 
> What's confusing about that?
> 
> Nothing's changed. She still gets everything she's always had and you're spending Friday night with Rosie and her five sisters. What could be wrong with that when it's already worked for years, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sad but true.


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## Trying2figureitout

Darkhorse said:


> I don't know how you do it. I would have left while she "found" whatever she was looking for. She knows she has the upper hand and it doesn't bother her to use it.
> 
> I have no answers to help you...I just think 2 years is a long time to hope the spark comes back. Life is short...however, in a situation like this, it can seem so very, very long.



Thanks I'm old school I believe in "For better and for worse" you have nothing if you lose your integrity.


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## charlene

It seems like time has stopped for her/ having in mind that 2 year period you all are talking about/


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## marriageconseling

*Family Therapy Cary NC*

IF there is any problem or misunderstanding between husband and wife in this they need to talk with each other without wasting any time or creating any issue. But in case they can't talk properly with each other so they need to contact any helpful and friendly Marriages Counselor. They can understand Your problems and solve it. 

Family Therapy Cary NC


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## surfergirl

Trying2figureitout.....in the last two years, what steps has your wife taken toward making this situation better? 

What is she doing to allow herself to fall in love with you again?


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## Trying2figureitout

wifeofhusband said:


> How would I interpret it:
> 1. "I want you to revive my passion for you".
> 2. "I don't feel like it right now, I want to feel that way and I'm sure with time it will come back, I don't know how much time it will take". (Probably a statement of it will take as long as it takes).
> Honestly though, I'm not your wife so I may be off base as far as her meaning.
> Have you asked her how much time she needs?


Thanks your view on this makes me feel a little better.
No, I have not asked her "How much time do you need"

Two years ago we has a long hug the night of ILYNILWY and she stated "I just need some time"

I didn't know then she was talking geologic time scales! I was thinking months NOT years or decades. Maybe next time we talk I will ask her. Thanks so much for your take on this it helps.


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## Trying2figureitout

charlene said:


> It seems like time has stopped for her/ having in mind that 2 year period you all are talking about/


I agree... some of the stuff she mentioned in the past as an "issue" goes all the way back to our wedding 18 years ago... crazy. Thanks.


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## Trying2figureitout

*Re: Family Therapy Cary NC*



marriageconseling said:


> IF there is any problem or misunderstanding between husband and wife in this they need to talk with each other without wasting any time or creating any issue. But in case they can't talk properly with each other so they need to contact any helpful and friendly Marriages Counselor. They can understand Your problems and solve it.
> 
> Family Therapy Cary NC


I recommended to her IC for her.... then if needed we can do MC. At this point she has some deep seated emotional personal issues to address before MC would be effective IMO. The last thing I need is for her to keep on re-hashing the past to a MC before she gets a grip individually. Thanks.


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## Trying2figureitout

surfergirl said:


> Trying2figureitout.....in the last two years, what steps has your wife taken toward making this situation better?
> 
> What is she doing to allow herself to fall in love with you again?



My wife by most accounts is a great wife and mom... lately she's been nicer to me. She even asked me out twice in the last 30 days to go out with her and her friends once dancing another time to a comedy show. She talks about our future and has never mentioned not wanting to be married to me. 

But she never seems to touch me, hasn't allowed kissing, won't write ILY only hearts, and sex is virtually non-existent.

She spends a lot of time at the gym 2hrs / day. No she isn't cheating! I keep a close eye on that aspect.

Thanks.


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## charlene

I 'm the one to understand someone who can be resentful for things in the past ,but also i know that in order to move on together you should really completely let go and start from scratch.
Recently i read most of what you''ve posted, and i really don't get it. IF everything you said is true i don't see how things hasn't evolved by now. I'm sorry for what happened with you two.
P.S. i agree with the post of wifeofhusband for the interpretation


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## Trying2figureitout

charlene said:


> I 'm the one to understand someone who can be resentful for things in the past ,but also i know that in order to move on together you should really completely let go and start from scratch.
> Recently i read most of what you''ve posted, and i really don't get it. IF everything you said is true i don't see how things hasn't evolved by now. I'm sorry for what happened with you two.
> P.S. i agree with the post of wifeofhusband for the interpretation


Thanks,

Of course you are only getting one side. But I'm trying to be as honest and transparent as possible. I made mistakes over two years ago... I drank too much(not an alcoholic by any means as I quit that night cold turkey), I yelled at my two boys when they screwed up, I was probably not attentive enough, appeared at times self-centered etc. BUT I was and still am a dedicated loving husband.

I listened to EVERYTHING she has ever said and ACTED on it. So much so she has said you are great, thanks..." its all me nothing more you can do."

The "worst" I've done over the past two years is to "remind" her of our situation on average every few months.

Trust me its her... I've done everything I can think of.

Thanks for your concern.


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## Trying2figureitout

mommy22 said:


> Does she battle depression?


Not that I'm aware of... she is pretty upbeat and very social with everyone. Not usually signs of depression IMO. Thanks for asking though.

If its anything other than past emotional trauma (involving me or her past)... the only other things physically are she is likely Peri-menopausal as evidenced by kicking off covers when I'm covered (I'm the warm one) Her mom mentioned when she was my wifes age she had to get on the right hormone until she could even stand her husband in the same room. My wife seems to refuse to see doctors. She is overdue by at least a couple months for a physical etc. My wife disowned her own sister as did her mom and dad and she fought with her violently when growing up (some allegations of sexual abuse from my wifes father allegations coming from the older sister.. not sure if they are real allegations...she is dead now died at 35) My wife is very fond of her parents so i'm not sure what went on there... but where there is smoke there certainly can be fire. I just don't know.

She also likes sleep... typically in bed by 8pm (Gets up at 4am)


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## Trying2figureitout

Fantastic morning update..

She and I had a great text exchange... seems like we hashed many basic things out. Feels really good...she stated it reaching out to me and thanking me for lots of stuff I do for her!

I told her life is too short, she needs to think new loving and sexy thoughts about me and leave the old thoughts behind... she agreed 

So I'm very happy seems like she had a revelation of sorts! Finally.

Maybe I will get lots of good sex soon??:smthumbup:

Must have been my e-mail to her last night... pretty much laid a bunch of stuff out for her to think about in terms of Sex, Love and marriage and the time its been since her disconnect. Also that she probably need counseling to get over past hurt....

Must have worked! That was fast. Thanks ladies... my wife thanks you indirectly for all the great advice! TAM is great.


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## Zzyzx

I can't tell you how many times my ex had those moments of lucidity that had me thinking "she finally gets it, hallelujah!!!" Only to be disappointed within days. Sometimes within hours.

There is something in her that is refusing to accommodate you; while she likes your company she is somehow repelled by the thought of sharing her body with you. Well yes she is right, it's her problem, not yours. You cannot control her thoughts, you can only control yourself. You need to let her know you feel disrespected, you've taken all kinds of actions to improve yourself, but you've had nothing but words from her for two years now. Time to stop paying attention to them. She needs to know words don't do it for you, only actions will and you are judging her by her actions or lack of. Further, tell her that her lack of action is a gong in your ear drowning out her words.

Your unwillingness to consider divorce is not helping you; it's telling her she'll always have a get-out-of-jail-free card. Remember she will continue these moments of lucidity that will fool you, but they mean NOTHING without your sausage in her sandwich on some regular basis. You are being played... If the sex and the emotional connection to your wife that you get through it is truly important to you, perhaps it's time to consider a walk ... out the door.


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## tacoma

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks I'm old school I believe in "For better and for worse" you have nothing if you lose your integrity.


Staying in a marriage with a woman who has no love for you is giving up your integrity...and self respect ..and chance at love,, happiness,, mutual intimacy...and..etc...

Leaving is what keeps your integrity intact.


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## ryansdad

I certainly admire the patience and length of time you have been able to stick this out. I also believe that you should do everything to work a marriage out. But, I have no interest in being a martyr. If my wife and I only had sex an average of once a month during the best of times, and I still did everything in my power to meet her needs and she just couldn't let the past go and show me the same courtesy of addressing my needs of physical touch and having sex 3-5x a week to feel connected with her, then I would tell her I love you but my needs are not being met. Here are your 3 choices: 1.My needs will be addressed starting today. 2.You allow me to get my needs met outside the marriage. Or 3.We are getting a divorce. Your needs are equally as important as hers and it is her duty as your wife to fulfill those needs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout

Zzyzx said:


> I can't tell you how many times my ex had those moments of lucidity that had me thinking "she finally gets it, hallelujah!!!" Only to be disappointed within days. Sometimes within hours.
> 
> There is something in her that is refusing to accommodate you; while she likes your company she is somehow repelled by the thought of sharing her body with you. Well yes she is right, it's her problem, not yours. You cannot control her thoughts, you can only control yourself. You need to let her know you feel disrespected, you've taken all kinds of actions to improve yourself, but you've had nothing but words from her for two years now. Time to stop paying attention to them. She needs to know words don't do it for you, only actions will and you are judging her by her actions or lack of. Further, tell her that her lack of action is a gong in your ear drowning out her words.
> 
> Your unwillingness to consider divorce is not helping you; it's telling her she'll always have a get-out-of-jail-free card. Remember she will continue these moments of lucidity that will fool you, but they mean NOTHING without your sausage in her sandwich on some regular basis. You are being played... If the sex and the emotional connection to your wife that you get through it is truly important to you, perhaps it's time to consider a walk ... out the door.


I have considered divorce...it's on the table. She knows that. I do like the "disrespected" advice I will use that in the future with regards to action vs words if this continues...thanks! Believe me walking is certainly on the table if things don't improve. I am however willing to give her more time. I believe in wedding vows.


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## Trying2figureitout

tacoma said:


> Staying in a marriage with a woman who has no love for you is giving up your integrity...and self respect ..and chance at love,, happiness,, mutual intimacy...and..etc...
> 
> Leaving is what keeps your integrity intact.


Thanks agree


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## Trying2figureitout

ryansdad said:


> I certainly admire the patience and length of time you have been able to stick this out. I also believe that you should do everything to work a marriage out. But, I have no interest in being a martyr. If my wife and I only had sex an average of once a month during the best of times, and I still did everything in my power to meet her needs and she just couldn't let the past go and show me the same courtesy of addressing my needs of physical touch and having sex 3-5x a week to feel connected with her, then I would tell her I love you but my needs are not being met. Here are your 3 choices: 1.My needs will be addressed starting today. 2.You allow me to get my needs met outside the marriage. Or 3.We are getting a divorce. Your needs are equally as important as hers and it is her duty as your wife to fulfill those needs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree it may come to the point of walking out...I won't cheat. My wife is on borrowed time right now. I believe she is aware of that. We'll see the above text exchange is definitely atypical of her. Something got her to reach out... she never does that typically. I believe she is changing... so guess we'll see what happens this month. My goal is 1x per week based on our work life. That would be huge for me.


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## Dadof3

tacoma said:


> Staying in a marriage with a woman who has no love for you is giving up your integrity...and self respect ..and chance at love,, happiness,, mutual intimacy...and..etc...
> 
> Leaving is what keeps your integrity intact.


Precisely!

AMEN!

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## ryansdad

My wife and I have been married 12 years, together 15, and thankfully we both do try and meet in the middle taking care of each others emotional and physical needs. My dad was married to my mom for 27 years when he finally left her for basically things similar to your story, as well as her being a hypochondriac. She has m.s and instead of being thankful that she can still walk after having m.s for 23years, to her no one on earth has it worse. She also would ask my dad whats for dinner every night after he got home from working 15hrs a day so he could pay her medical bills and he always came home to a dirty house. But not 1 person in his or her family blamed him. And that was his biggest fear. He is a deacon/associate pastor at his church and he stayed miserable in a marriage for 10 years because he too thought it would tarnish his integrity. That being said, every person at his church and family said we were surprised you stayed that long. He is now happily married and has a partner who fulfills all of his needs. You deserve no less.


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## Darkhorse

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks I'm old school I believe in "For better and for worse" you have nothing if you lose your integrity.


Well, I believe in it too, but your wife doesn't...at least she doesn't care about her vows which didn't insinuate she gets to call all the shots about sex.

And if you believed in "for better or worse" then why post here about what her text meant? That's your worse or part of it. Nothing to question. Just accept. For your integrity, of course. You better protect your integrity because your wife sure doesn't care about it.

After TWO YEARS you can bet she knows if she'll fall in love with you again. What happened that caused her to fall out? Did you cheat? because if not, then 2 years is way too long.


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## Zzyzx

Just remember it's December, we've been following you awhile here on this board. You've been willing to give her more time since the beginning of time (to a man looking at a sexual desert, well it just feels that way). When does that stop?

I agree with the sentiment expressed by tacoma and dadof3, walking out for me was about getting back my integrity as a man. Or to put it bluntly: I got my balls back.


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## Darkhorse

You keep talking about wedding vows. While I admire your commitment to them, as I also value my vows, I don't understand why you can't see that your wife doesn't care about the vows. Love, honor, respect...those words were in my vows...don't know about yours, but...she has broken a lot of the "vows" that you hold tightly to. She knows you have this thing about vows, so she's not too quick to change. Why should she? For better or worse...how bad can it get?

I am happy that you see this as her reaching out (the text) but I don't think it is. Although, you know her and I do not.


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## myelw316

How I would interpret it: (I am a 41 year old wife who has felt that way about my sex drive/interest sometimes)
I would say she knows she HAS felt that way with you
She knows it will come back
She knows libido isn't the problem (so she may know what is...my GUESS...what is was for me was 2 things: romance...leading to nowhere. I didn't like feeling like my husband didn't just want to kiss ...there was ALWAYS an end in mind and it was lets get to the good stuff. Makes a wife feel like, well, like anyone could fill the bill. Also my husband would often stay on the computer or phone or psp and I felt ignored and was resentful.)
SO......what are you doing that she could feel resentful of?
And could you just tell her you want to kiss and hold her. Just a thought. Even if you do that already, a wife can feel an agenda.
Definitely not hopeless at all.
Also, is she on an antidepressant? Those can ELIMINATE a sex drive. So can hormone problems


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## Trying2figureitout

ryansdad said:


> My wife and I have been married 12 years, together 15, and thankfully we both do try and meet in the middle taking care of each others emotional and physical needs. My dad was married to my mom for 27 years when he finally left her for basically things similar to your story, as well as her being a hypochondriac. She has m.s and instead of being thankful that she can still walk after having m.s for 23years, to her no one on earth has it worse. She also would ask my dad whats for dinner every night after he got home from working 15hrs a day so he could pay her medical bills and he always came home to a dirty house. But not 1 person in his or her family blamed him. And that was his biggest fear. He is a deacon/associate pastor at his church and he stayed miserable in a marriage for 10 years because he too thought it would tarnish his integrity. That being said, every person at his church and family said we were surprised you stayed that long. He is now happily married and has a partner who fulfills all of his needs. You deserve no less.


Thanks.


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## Trying2figureitout

Darkhorse said:


> You keep talking about wedding vows. While I admire your commitment to them, as I also value my vows, I don't understand why you can't see that your wife doesn't care about the vows. Love, honor, respect...those words were in my vows...don't know about yours, but...she has broken a lot of the "vows" that you hold tightly to. She knows you have this thing about vows, so she's not too quick to change. Why should she? For better or worse...how bad can it get?
> 
> I am happy that you see this as her reaching out (the text) but I don't think it is. Although, you know her and I do not.


Believe me that is a huge step for her and her agreeing with me another huge step. My wife is a tough cookie to crack. Thanks for pointing out she has already broken several vows... I never looked at it that way to be honest.


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## Trying2figureitout

myelw316 said:


> How I would interpret it: (I am a 41 year old wife who has felt that way about my sex drive/interest sometimes)
> I would say she knows she HAS felt that way with you
> She knows it will come back
> She knows libido isn't the problem (so she may know what is...my GUESS...what is was for me was 2 things: romance...leading to nowhere. I didn't like feeling like my husband didn't just want to kiss ...there was ALWAYS an end in mind and it was lets get to the good stuff. Makes a wife feel like, well, like anyone could fill the bill. Also my husband would often stay on the computer or phone or psp and I felt ignored and was resentful.)
> SO......what are you doing that she could feel resentful of?
> And could you just tell her you want to kiss and hold her. Just a thought. Even if you do that already, a wife can feel an agenda.
> Definitely not hopeless at all.
> Also, is she on an antidepressant? Those can ELIMINATE a sex drive. So can hormone problems


Well I'm ashamed to say we haven't kissed much in fact we never really kissed outside of sex much ever. She is not much of a hand holder she moves fast. Most of the outside contact is me either rubbing her feet/legs or hugging her or touching her. She almost never does the same. She is a great cook and always makes sure I have a meal when I get home late. She is fun and nice. Just not ever real touchy feely. She enjoys family time we eat dinner together etc whenever possible. Her and I see each other mainly on F,Sat,Sun because of work scheds.

Most of our kissing etc was during sex then before the disconnect we would kiss passionately during sex etc.

She sits on her own couch so it's even hard to sit next to her. i don't think she enjoys cuddling etc. She isn't the typical girl she is actually more of a tomboy. A really sexy one.

What she really enjoyed before were the foot rubs often they would be a precursor to sex. Those along with backrubs etc.
She would request one everynight just about...no longer the case.

Honestly right now the only "resentful" thing I do is remind her over the past two months that this needs to be solved. i've been doing a lot of talking/listening and non sexual touch. I have stopped a lot of the over the top romantic gestures,... don't feel them appropriate considering the situation.. I already told her no xmas gift which she was ok with (even though she bought me some already) whatever she isn't getting anything this year. I told her I don't want anything from HER gift wise. So that'll be interesting on the 25th. (She missed out on a nice gift..oh well)

No antidepressants...she is overdue for dr visit.

Thanks for the "not hopeless at all" I want to do the right thing for my family.


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## LimboGirl

Was she sexually abused? Is she a lesbian? I have been in a rough marriage for a long time. The sex never got this bad. It was getting to the point that even I was bothered. My husband has a higher drive than me.

None of this makes sense to me. She disowned a sister because the sister said her father sexually abused her. Maybe she disowned her sister because she didn't want to face something.

She sounds like she desperately needs IC.

I hope you are right and you and her have great sex tonight.


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## Trying2figureitout

Zzyzx said:


> Just remember it's December, we've been following you awhile here on this board. You've been willing to give her more time since the beginning of time (to a man looking at a sexual desert, well it just feels that way). When does that stop?
> 
> I agree with the sentiment expressed by tacoma and dadof3, walking out for me was about getting back my integrity as a man. Or to put it bluntly: I got my balls back.


I know that is my issue... I don't want to break up our family and I believe she will come around. I am however nearing the end of my patience... she is aware. Most significant change in her for the better has happened over the past two months.

This is not an everlasting situation that is why I've pressured her much harder consistently at year 2. I won't let her get comfortable again with sexless.


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## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> Was she sexually abused? Is she a lesbian? I have been in a rough marriage for a long time. The sex never got this bad. It was getting to the point that even I was bothered. My husband has a higher drive than me.
> 
> None of this makes sense to me. She disowned a sister because the sister said her father sexually abused her. Maybe she disowned her sister because she didn't want to face something.
> 
> She sounds like she desperately needs IC.
> 
> I hope you are right and you and her have great sex tonight.


She may be bi but doubt a full on lesbain. She may have been abused i don't know for sure but seems like it may be a reason. She does kiss other girls on lips etc that are her friends... kinda hot.

She does need IC bad..she need a DR. visit bad.

We probably won't have sex tonite I work late...maybe Fri at the earliest..she is on period still.
At this point any sex is good.


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## Havesomethingtosay

Are you ever going to be honest with people on TAM? You wrote a list of demands a while back and deleted that thread. You've deleted a number of other threads you started, where you have told differennt stories for people to comment on. Yesterday you wrote her another very scary letter (imo) and included some "gifts" you've alluded too, but have not admitted to on this thread, while asking for advice.

And within one day you think sex is on the horizon and she has in texts (not face to face) indicated it "may" happen.... Now she is having a period, which I am sure she was also having 2 weeks ago, the last time sex was going to happen. Or maybe she'll be too tired again? Weren't you away at an inn a few weeks ago too?

Really I hope you get what you want, but I can't for the life of me believe your wife is going to be the woman you've demanded her to be in your letters.

What bothers me is you are on here and ask for opinions, yet change your story or leave out crucial parts all the time and pretend no one notices.


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## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Are you ever going to be honest with people on TAM? You wrote a list of demands a while back and deleted that thread. You've deleted a number of other threads you started, where you have told differennt stories for people to comment on. Yesterday you wrote her another very scary letter (imo) and included some "gifts" you've alluded too, but have not admitted to on this thread, while asking for advice.
> 
> And within one day you think sex is on the horizon and she has in texts (not face to face) indicated it "may" happen.... Now she is having a period, which I am sure she was also having 2 weeks ago, the last time sex was going to happen. Or maybe she'll be too tired again? Weren't you away at an inn a few weeks ago too?
> 
> Really I hope you get what you want, but I can't for the life of me believe your wife is going to be the woman you've demanded her to be in your letters.
> 
> What bothers me is you are on here and ask for opinions, yet change your story or leave out crucial parts all the time and pretend no one notices.


HaveSomething.... 

Good evening.... I don't think I've changed my story that much sometimes when threads become abusive yes I delete them. Whatever deal with it. 

Thanks for hoping I get what I want I'm human I deserve a sex life with my wife. Especially after two years of straight effort. 

What did I leave out?

Here is the cliff notes:
ILYNILWY Nov 09 (I stopped drinking, made all changes permanent)
First talk about how she is doing lets have fresh start for new year (feelings)
First talk about my needs Mar 10 (She felt lectured)
Go with the flow another talk at 6 mo (feelings)
Go with the flow another talk at 6mo now 2011 (Threatened if she was really going to lead us to divorce over sex)
Go with the flow 6mo (another talk "feelings")

Now at about year two another talk (feelings)

Here is where I come at her from every direction (Lots of positive change in her...besides sex)

Letter stating we were done talking about past (Either closer or further apart all the way to divorce)
Celibacy olive branch (Slated to go to 1/12)
She punked me at party (Reality check letter... fix by Nov celibacy over)
NO xmas gift exchange text (she still getting me presents, me none for her)
Dec 1st... we need to talk make a time this weekend... "ok"
never happenned.
Dec 5th... Gift bag with book + libido supplements and nice note saying we don't need to talk if she is on track.
Dec 6th... She gave ne a "short" attitude... Texted her whats up (She said what is on page one of THIS thread)
E-mailed lots of stuff about love+marriage+ counseling
Today..She makes nice texting
Tonight... E mailed her saying talk is falling on deaf ears time for action I expect her to start sex again this weekend her choice. Reaffirmed I'm at end of my patience after two years. Weekly thereafter.
Also asked her for her NEEDS list so its a win/win scenario where she is happy and satisfied.

So there you go..happy?

Whatever... Do I think I'm going to get sex this weekend YES!
She is just as ready to move forward as I she just needs a push or a strong suggestion.

So stay tuned. I'm happy with where my marriage is going.
Sexlessness requires unique approaches to solve. Lots going on.

All I "suggested" was weekly sex... that is a lot better than 15x per year or every 4 months!
This is a strong suggestion to her.... could be a deal breaker if she balks.

Hey she started this...I'm ending it with a "fixed" marriage.

I didn't go through two years sexless for nothing. Weekly is in the middle of drives and within my 10 day max where I start to miss it.


----------



## MEM2020

Trying,
I think I speak for everyone following your thread when I say I very much want you to succeed. 

With that said I believe you need to prepare yourself mentally for the upcoming weekend. I have a tomboy wife so I speak from experience here. If you wish to maximize your odds of success:
- stay "low affect" calm no matter what. She may try to make you angry. Not saying she will but she MAY. No matter what you stay calm and low key. 
- Do NOT talk about how you feel. She already knows ad nauseum. Repetition at this point will look weak and frankly will be weak. 
- Do NOT talk much at all and if you do do NOT make statements. instead if need be ask carefully thought out questions such as: what are you willing to commit to in terms of sexual frequency?

I think it likely she is going to try hard to avoid your questions. I think she will be very non committal. And when that happens instead of arguing or getting angry you should ask a question that is almost 20 years overdue. Which is simply this: are you planning to tell me why you don't really like sex with me, or are you going to let our marriage continue to die instead of sharing that?

If she is evasive there I think you just shrug and ask her "if you won't commit to sex because you dont like sex with me and you won't tell me why, how do you actually ever see this working out well for either of us?

On a separate note, I would gently tell my W that I cannot accept any Christmas gifts from a wife who is refusing normal intimacy. I would say it with a neutral tone but I would be firm about it. 

I think you are currently way, way to optimistic. Unless you handle the situation very carefully she is going to get you to do all the talking, she is going go avoid saying or doing much and you are goi to get angry and likely make mistakes. 

The best way to arouse a tomboy is to show strength. But strength is not bluster. Bluster is an expression of fear. And while I feel bad for your situation I have to tell you that you have demonstrated a very high bluster factor in your threads. Tomboys love results and dislike bluster. 

Sincerely I wish you luck. 





E=Trying2figureitout;506494]HaveSomething.... 

Good evening.... I don't think I've changed my story that much sometimes when threads become abusive yes I delete them. Whatever deal with it. 

Thanks for hoping I get what I want I'm human I deserve a sex life with my wife. Especially after two years of straight effort. 

What did I leave out?

Here is the cliff notes:
ILYNILWY Nov 09 (I stopped drinking, made all changes permanent)
First talk about how she is doing lets have fresh start for new year (feelings)
First talk about my needs Mar 10 (She felt lectured)
Go with the flow another talk at 6 mo (feelings)
Go with the flow another talk at 6mo now 2011 (Threatened if she was really going to lead us to divorce over sex)
Go with the flow 6mo (another talk "feelings")

Now at about year two another talk (feelings)

Here is where I come at her from every direction (Lots of positive change in her...besides sex)

Letter stating we were done talking about past (Either closer or further apart all the way to divorce)
Celibacy olive branch (Slated to go to 1/12)
She punked me at party (Reality check letter... fix by Nov celibacy over)
NO xmas gift exchange text (she still getting me presents, me none for her)
Dec 1st... we need to talk make a time this weekend... "ok"
never happenned.
Dec 5th... Gift bag with book + libido supplements and nice note saying we don't need to talk if she is on track.
Dec 6th... She gave ne a "short" attitude... Texted her whats up (She said what is on page one of THIS thread)
E-mailed lots of stuff about love+marriage+ counseling
Today..She makes nice texting
Tonight... E mailed her saying talk is falling on deaf ears time for action I expect her to start sex again this weekend her choice. Reaffirmed I'm at end of my patience after two years. Weekly thereafter.
Also asked her for her NEEDS list so its a win/win scenario where she is happy and satisfied.

So there you go..happy?

Whatever... Do I think I'm going to get sex this weekend YES!
She is just as ready to move forward as I she just needs a push or a strong suggestion.

So stay tuned. I'm happy with where my marriage is going.
Sexlessness requires unique approaches to solve. Lots going on.

All I "suggested" was weekly sex... that is a lot better than 15x per year or every 4 months!
This is a strong suggestion to her.... could be a deal breaker if she balks.

Hey she started this...I'm ending it with a "fixed" marriage.

I didn't go through two years sexless for nothing. Weekly is in the middle of drives and within my 10 day max where I start to miss it.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

Trying2figureitout, your wife actually kisses women on the lips and goes to the gym for two hours everyday, is in bed by eight and up by four and you think she has a low libido. That’s a pretty highly driven, sexual woman! Sounds to me her libido is reserved for women, men (including yourself) may even repulse her in some ways. I think you are being used and abused. Plus your own sex drive is very low, otherwise you’d never tolerate the situation, not even in your “good” times. You might want to look into why your libido is so low.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

T2FIO,

Really I am not sure whether to cheer for you, laugh or cry. I basically signed up on TAM first to respond to your threads and shaking my head in incredulity at what you wrote.

If you are as good, decent, nice, loving, attractive, smart and intelligent a person as you consider yourself to be, I suggest you separate from your wife and start living your life. You have so much to offer someone (in your words) and you have WASTED so much time and effort on someone, who still refuses sex and prior to that was a nasty awful woman to you, treating you as a cuckold and insignificant. 

And the reward, you have begged for sex, which was always infrequent (15-20X's/yr), and now have given her a list of demands where you expect her to have an epiphany and all will be well.

Please see a counselor and hash this out. Yes she needs one as do you (and MC too).


----------



## Halien

Trying2figureitout said:


> I told her life is too short, she needs to think new loving and sexy thoughts about me and leave the old thoughts behind... she agreed


Please tell me you didn't really say/text this to her in any way that resembles how it is written here? I'm sorry, but I have to say that your wife has helped you get into a place where it must feel impossible to succeed in mutual sexual satisfaction. It seems to make you desperate to pick up pieces and try to put them into some semblance of normalcy. I am very sorry for the pain this causes you. 

I'm trying to be helpful here, so please take this from this point of view. People here want to see you suceed. A few people have tried to make a point that you seem to gloss over without noticing. I know its not intentional. Maybe you're dealing with something that just seems to overwhelm. But glossing over these comments from female posters makes it seem like you really don't want to do anything but to make the intimacy harder to achieve, when some people read the replies. I don't mean this in a critical way.

You have an agenda in almost every conversation that I read where you talk about sex with your wife. Yes, you were forced into it, but I know you just want a way out of a tough situation. If I take this to the extreme a bit, to her, it just seems like it must sound like you are saying, "I want you to spread your legs and lets do our thing. Look, see how I rubbed your feet for ten minutes. Why can't you spread 'em?"

It is possible, I believe, to get so heartbroken over what is missing from your life that you lose objectivity. Maybe you grab hold of the fact that sex must be like an exchange for her, where she'll want to do it because you are doing something for her. 

I'm no expert, but I'd like to mention at least one alternate way of looking at things.

Please step back, and accept that it doesn't work this way. After 24 years of a healthy sex life, I'd say that there is one thing that definately holds true. If you want sex more, then you talk about it less. You fixate on it less, to get more. Replace all of this obsession on sex with a passion to take her breath away, in her way, and genuine expressions of the way you care for her, and respect her. (I stole this from a very successful mentor when I was young, so feel free to read it again).

I'd encurage you to try a couple of things to see if she begins looking at you differently. Just a test, if you will. See if her smile becomes genuine. First, decide that since sex ain't happenin' in the next few days, scrap the sex agenda. Scrap the foot rubbing agenda. That's too Tryingtofigureitout. In your own way, let her know that you are beginning to look at some things differently, and you want her to give you a chance to try to explain it over the next few days. Latch on to a new agenda: Find times where sex is just not possible. Maybe she's leaving for work or the gym soon. Stop her for a moment and tell her something about her that really means alot to you. Tell her about how that if you want to cheer yourself up, you think about the way she puts on those goofy slippers in the afternoon, sits crosslegged, and makes that really wierd expression when she's reading new posts on her laptop. Tell her that you'd never trade that memory for anything. When she wakes in the morning, talk about how beautiful her unkempt hair is, or the way you love breathing her smell during the night when your face is close to her. Find examples like this at least once a day, but don't overdo it.

Okay, here's the punchline: This isn't a test, and it isn't even suggested in order to make her jump you for sex. The point is that you describe her as a beautiful, sexual creature, but all of your efforts have revolved around this elaborate, super ingenious plan to get more sex. Please throw the inane plan and the sex agenda out the window, and practice making her the goal. The agenda. That other plan was achieved in desperation - accept it as that, and focus on your new agenda. On the one side, you have this mountain of mental energy and thought poured into a sex agenda. Practice studying her. Quit exhanging actions, because this is obviously not her love language - do them, but you don't have to pretend like they bring you joy. Let her reveal herself to you, where even her small, inintentional actions fill you with a real desire for her. But don't let her know that this is your agenda. Keep it to yourself. She'll figure it out if you make those occasional comments when it is clear to her that you can't be doing it for sex. And if she reveals herself, you'll see that there are things that she dreams of doing for an incredible sex life. Maybe it will involve you needing to take some risks, and learn new things. But now that you've abandoned this sex plan, you have loads of time to learn how to do them. Fill all of your time with touching her with the frequency she desires, without obsessing, and letting her know that the actions stands on its own, without the expectation of more. 

Gee, I forgot to mention where sex fits into this. My friend, if you don't sweat it, but focus on these other things with alpha confidence, you'll wake up one day and realize that you have more sex than you know what to do with. You might be a great dancer, too, or have travelled to some really cool places, and had sex in some really unique locales. Ever had sex under a waterfall at 2:00 AM in a national park? Or on a small, secluded island? That's what I'm talking about.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Halien said:


> Please tell me you didn't really say/text this to her in any way that resembles how it is written here? I'm sorry, but I have to say that your wife has helped you get into a place where it must feel impossible to succeed in mutual sexual satisfaction. It seems to make you desperate to pick up pieces and try to put them into some semblance of normalcy. I am very sorry for the pain this causes you.
> 
> I'm trying to be helpful here, so please take this from this point of view. People here want to see you suceed. A few people have tried to make a point that you seem to gloss over without noticing. I know its not intentional. Maybe you're dealing with something that just seems to overwhelm. But glossing over these comments from female posters makes it seem like you really don't want to do anything but to make the intimacy harder to achieve, when some people read the replies. I don't mean this in a critical way.
> 
> You have an agenda in almost every conversation that I read where you talk about sex with your wife. Yes, you were forced into it, but I know you just want a way out of a tough situation. If I take this to the extreme a bit, to her, it just seems like it must sound like you are saying, "I want you to spread your legs and lets do our thing. Look, see how I rubbed your feet for ten minutes. Why can't you spread 'em?"
> 
> It is possible, I believe, to get so heartbroken over what is missing from your life that you lose objectivity. Maybe you grab hold of the fact that sex must be like an exchange for her, where she'll want to do it because you are doing something for her.
> 
> I'm no expert, but I'd like to mention at least one alternate way of looking at things.
> 
> Please step back, and accept that it doesn't work this way. After 24 years of a healthy sex life, I'd say that there is one thing that definately holds true. If you want sex more, then you talk about it less. You fixate on it less, to get more. Replace all of this obsession on sex with a passion to take her breath away, in her way, and genuine expressions of the way you care for her, and respect her. (I stole this from a very successful mentor when I was young, so feel free to read it again).
> 
> I'd encurage you to try a couple of things to see if she begins looking at you differently. Just a test, if you will. See if her smile becomes genuine. First, decide that since sex ain't happenin' in the next few days, scrap the sex agenda. Scrap the foot rubbing agenda. That's too Tryingtofigureitout. In your own way, let her know that you are beginning to look at some things differently, and you want her to give you a chance to try to explain it over the next few days. Latch on to a new agenda: Find times where sex is just not possible. Maybe she's leaving for work or the gym soon. Stop her for a moment and tell her something about her that really means alot to you. Tell her about how that if you want to cheer yourself up, you think about the way she puts on those goofy slippers in the afternoon, sits crosslegged, and makes that really wierd expression when she's reading new posts on her laptop. Tell her that you'd never trade that memory for anything. When she wakes in the morning, talk about how beautiful her unkempt hair is, or the way you love breathing her smell during the night when your face is close to her. Find examples like this at least once a day, but don't overdo it.
> 
> Okay, here's the punchline: This isn't a test, and it isn't even suggested in order to make her jump you for sex. The point is that you describe her as a beautiful, sexual creature, but all of your efforts have revolved around this elaborate, super ingenious plan to get more sex. Please throw the inane plan and the sex agenda out the window, and practice making her the goal. The agenda. That other plan was achieved in desperation - accept it as that, and focus on your new agenda. On the one side, you have this mountain of mental energy and thought poured into a sex agenda. Practice studying her. Quit exhanging actions, because this is obviously not her love language - do them, but you don't have to pretend like they bring you joy. Let her reveal herself to you, where even her small, inintentional actions fill you with a real desire for her. But don't let her know that this is your agenda. Keep it to yourself. She'll figure it out if you make those occasional comments when it is clear to her that you can't be doing it for sex. And if she reveals herself, you'll see that there are things that she dreams of doing for an incredible sex life. Maybe it will involve you needing to take some risks, and learn new things. But now that you've abandoned this sex plan, you have loads of time to learn how to do them. Fill all of your time with touching her with the frequency she desires, without obsessing, and letting her know that the actions stands on its own, without the expectation of more.
> 
> Gee, I forgot to mention where sex fits into this. My friend, if you don't sweat it, but focus on these other things with alpha confidence, you'll wake up one day and realize that you have more sex than you know what to do with. You might be a great dancer, too, or have travelled to some really cool places, and had sex in some really unique locales. Ever had sex under a waterfall at 2:00 AM in a national park? Or on a small, secluded island? That's what I'm talking about.


Wow... what an awesome post. Thanks.

I know half or maybe more of you think I have lost touch of reality. I haven't. My plan IS working.... my wife and I will have sex on Saturday and next Saturday...and ....

I have chosen my path.... I understand all of what you say above. The deal with MY wife is that as a main effort would not work... however in the future it may very well enhance our sex life. So I realy do appreciate it all.

This plan of mine WILL work. My wife has come around it's just pushing her over the edge... already done. We will have sex on Saturday. We will have sex next Saturday...

It has taken halfway into December rather than November but my weird convoluted plan worked on MY wife. She is very happy she needed to be led out of sexlessness.

I appreciate all the support its been a roller coaster... her and I are heading towards a healthy sexual marriage.:smthumbup:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> T2FIO,
> 
> Really I am not sure whether to cheer for you, laugh or cry. I basically signed up on TAM first to respond to your threads and shaking my head in incredulity at what you wrote.
> 
> If you are as good, decent, nice, loving, attractive, smart and intelligent a person as you consider yourself to be, I suggest you separate from your wife and start living your life. You have so much to offer someone (in your words) and you have WASTED so much time and effort on someone, who still refuses sex and prior to that was a nasty awful woman to you, treating you as a cuckold and insignificant.
> 
> And the reward, you have begged for sex, which was always infrequent (15-20X's/yr), and now have given her a list of demands where you expect her to have an epiphany and all will be well.
> 
> Please see a counselor and hash this out. Yes she needs one as do you (and MC too).


I have never 'begged" for sex... I have told her what I need from my spouse. Yes she has free will. She will choose to listen to my suggestions because it is the way for her to feel love again. Thanks.

I'm happy my wife is happy... not sure why that seems to be a bad thing to most of you. We actually communicate now about everything.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> Trying,
> I think I speak for everyone following your thread when I say I very much want you to succeed.
> 
> With that said I believe you need to prepare yourself mentally for the upcoming weekend. I have a tomboy wife so I speak from experience here. If you wish to maximize your odds of success:
> - stay "low affect" calm no matter what. She may try to make you angry. Not saying she will but she MAY. No matter what you stay calm and low key.
> - Do NOT talk about how you feel. She already knows ad nauseum. Repetition at this point will look weak and frankly will be weak.
> - Do NOT talk much at all and if you do do NOT make statements. instead if need be ask carefully thought out questions such as: what are you willing to commit to in terms of sexual frequency?
> 
> I think it likely she is going to try hard to avoid your questions. I think she will be very non committal. And when that happens instead of arguing or getting angry you should ask a question that is almost 20 years overdue. Which is simply this: are you planning to tell me why you don't really like sex with me, or are you going to let our marriage continue to die instead of sharing that?
> 
> If she is evasive there I think you just shrug and ask her "if you won't commit to sex because you dont like sex with me and you won't tell me why, how do you actually ever see this working out well for either of us?
> 
> On a separate note, I would gently tell my W that I cannot accept any Christmas gifts from a wife who is refusing normal intimacy. I would say it with a neutral tone but I would be firm about it.
> 
> I think you are currently way, way to optimistic. Unless you handle the situation very carefully she is going to get you to do all the talking, she is going go avoid saying or doing much and you are goi to get angry and likely make mistakes.
> 
> The best way to arouse a tomboy is to show strength. But strength is not bluster. Bluster is an expression of fear. And while I feel bad for your situation I have to tell you that you have demonstrated a very high bluster factor in your threads. Tomboys love results and dislike bluster.
> 
> Sincerely I wish you luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E=Trying2figureitout;506494]HaveSomething....
> 
> Good evening.... I don't think I've changed my story that much sometimes when threads become abusive yes I delete them. Whatever deal with it.
> 
> Thanks for hoping I get what I want I'm human I deserve a sex life with my wife. Especially after two years of straight effort.
> 
> What did I leave out?
> 
> Here is the cliff notes:
> ILYNILWY Nov 09 (I stopped drinking, made all changes permanent)
> First talk about how she is doing lets have fresh start for new year (feelings)
> First talk about my needs Mar 10 (She felt lectured)
> Go with the flow another talk at 6 mo (feelings)
> Go with the flow another talk at 6mo now 2011 (Threatened if she was really going to lead us to divorce over sex)
> Go with the flow 6mo (another talk "feelings")
> 
> Now at about year two another talk (feelings)
> 
> Here is where I come at her from every direction (Lots of positive change in her...besides sex)
> 
> Letter stating we were done talking about past (Either closer or further apart all the way to divorce)
> Celibacy olive branch (Slated to go to 1/12)
> She punked me at party (Reality check letter... fix by Nov celibacy over)
> NO xmas gift exchange text (she still getting me presents, me none for her)
> Dec 1st... we need to talk make a time this weekend... "ok"
> never happenned.
> Dec 5th... Gift bag with book + libido supplements and nice note saying we don't need to talk if she is on track.
> Dec 6th... She gave ne a "short" attitude... Texted her whats up (She said what is on page one of THIS thread)
> E-mailed lots of stuff about love+marriage+ counseling
> Today..She makes nice texting
> Tonight... E mailed her saying talk is falling on deaf ears time for action I expect her to start sex again this weekend her choice. Reaffirmed I'm at end of my patience after two years. Weekly thereafter.
> Also asked her for her NEEDS list so its a win/win scenario where she is happy and satisfied.
> 
> So there you go..happy?
> 
> Whatever... Do I think I'm going to get sex this weekend YES!
> She is just as ready to move forward as I she just needs a push or a strong suggestion.
> 
> So stay tuned. I'm happy with where my marriage is going.
> Sexlessness requires unique approaches to solve. Lots going on.
> 
> All I "suggested" was weekly sex... that is a lot better than 15x per year or every 4 months!
> This is a strong suggestion to her.... could be a deal breaker if she balks.
> 
> Hey she started this...I'm ending it with a "fixed" marriage.
> 
> I didn't go through two years sexless for nothing. Weekly is in the middle of drives and within my 10 day max where I start to miss it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Mem..Thanks you are one of my favorite posters I really appreciate your advice:smthumbup:

I am mentally prepared... I've for two months been prepared for anything including her leaving me, cheating on me whatever. That mental reality has allowed me to use these different approaches with her... I am breaking down her wall and leading her out of sexless. Her and I are going to have a fantastic and sexual marriage.

Honestly I believe most all the talking about "lack of sex" is over. She knows all I want to see is action from her and/or serious communication of how we are heading towards that from her or her describing exactly what she needs from me. 

She is just as ready to move on as I... it took me leading her out of this two year mess into a BETTER future. I know all of you are like "NO WAY" did his way work... 

It did and it will at least on MY wife.

Thanks for the advice this weekend I will look at it and memorize it by Friday morning... truth is I don't think I'll need it at all. We are approaching the end of a sexless marriage.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

AFEH said:


> Trying2figureitout, your wife actually kisses women on the lips and goes to the gym for two hours everyday, is in bed by eight and up by four and you think she has a low libido. That’s a pretty highly driven, sexual woman! Sounds to me her libido is reserved for women, men (including yourself) may even repulse her in some ways. I think you are being used and abused. Plus your own sex drive is very low, otherwise you’d never tolerate the situation, not even in your “good” times. You might want to look into why your libido is so low.


I do think she inside is a sexual dynamo...her need to feel "in love" with me has been the issue. I have changed into a better me more alpha...she is slowly falling in love with the new me. i am leading her she is responding. I think she likes fun...she is probably bi-curious. She growing up liked guys as friends rather than girls. So she likes guys but is a tomboy at heart and seems to like girls to at least in a casual flirt way. Its all good.

I guess I do have a "low' sex drive as I put up with scraps for years...that is why i am not budging on "weekly" we need to meet in the middle of our drives from here on out. I would be ecstatic with weekly...so yes I guess I'm low drive or at least a drive I can control so I don't overload my wife with bugging her for sex always (I do care for her and take her lifestyle into account part of my love for her). In reality I would like to have sex everyday if it were "If you could change one thing" so maybe I'm not low drive but rather just able to "control" my drive if that makes sense....that being said I do really need sex about weekly to function at the highest level.

What I'm excited about is I have been "high level" without sex in life at work and such. Its going to be awesome having a sex life tailored towards my drive.. I will be that much more productive there are so many things I put off because I've been working on this for two years...I'm excited for myself and my family.

This is one big Do-over...i love do-overs!


----------



## RDJ

Trying2figureitout,

I'm not going to give you a hard time for hanging in there. I was you, my wife was the same as yours.

I had the same agenda, problem was, she too knew my agenda. As long as I had an agenda, she would not budge.

It took me close to three years to finally "let go" of that agenda.

I gave up, I was finally ready to "let go" of her too. Only when she knew that to be true, did she have to come back and fight to keep me.

I'm a firm believer in "leading" my wife. But the truth is, you may be fooling yourself in believing that you can lead her without her submitting to your marriage and your mutual needs first.

I know you believe that she is almost there, I truly hope that you are right. But if not, you may have to "let it go" to have a chance of getting it back. That "letting it go" will have to be real for her and you both.

Just my opinion, I truly do wish you the best!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

RDJ said:


> Trying2figureitout,
> 
> I'm not going to give you a hard time for hanging in there. I was you, my wife was the same as yours.
> 
> I had the same agenda, problem was, she too knew my agenda. As long as I had an agenda, she would not budge.
> 
> It took me close to three years to finally "let go" of that agenda.
> 
> I gave up, I was finally ready to "let go" of her too. Only when she knew that to be true, did she have to come back and fight to keep me.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in "leading" my wife. But the truth is, you may be fooling yourself in believing that you can lead her without her submitting to your marriage and your mutual needs first.
> 
> I know you believe that she is almost there, I truly hope that you are right. But if not, you may have to "let it go" to have a chance of getting it back. That "letting it go" will have to be real for her and you both.
> 
> Just my opinion, I truly do wish you the best!


Thanks RDJ,

I'm at about 98% sure that my wife and I are on the same page now. There has not been a peep out of her saying...this is crazy. She knows as well as I know... we need to have sex frequently and consistently to better our marriage. She is on board it took me redefining for her what love really is about in a long-term marriage. She finally had the light bulb go off. 'you know he's right!". 

You and I in essence did the same thing just a slightly different approach... either way both of us got what we wanted in the end... a decent sex life with the wives we love. My wife KNOWS this is the way out. She doesn't want to go down the other road. Shes happy I'm happy.

You keep on pushing sooner or later they come around. Just like a river carving a canyon takes a lot of time and then a catastrophic flood finishes the work of the river. The end is in sight...two more days.

I'm going to beat you by a year...in your face...just kidding thanks.


----------



## uphillbattle

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks RDJ,
> 
> I'm at about 98% sure that my wife and I are on the same page now. There has not been a peep out of her saying...this is crazy. She knows as well as I know... we need to have sex frequently and consistently to better our marriage. She is on board it took me redefining for her what love really is about in a long-term marriage. She finally had the light bulb go off. 'you know he's right!".
> 
> You and I in essence did the same thing just a slightly different approach... either way both of us got what we wanted in the end... a decent sex life with the wives we love. My wife KNOWS this is the way out. She doesn't want to go down the other road. Shes happy I'm happy.
> 
> You keep on pushing sooner or later they come around. Just like a river carving a canyon takes a lot of time and then a catastrophic flood finishes the work of the river. The end is in sight...two more days.
> 
> I'm going to beat you by a year...in your face...just kidding thanks.


I think I have had atleast 50 "lightbulb" moments with my wife. Not a single one changed anything. I told her the other day, I am done at the end of Feburary when our lease is up on the house. I get the impression she is just brushing it off but either I see change or I will stick with it.


----------



## Zzyzx

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks RDJ,
> 
> I'm at about 98% sure that my wife and I are on the same page now. There has not been a peep out of her saying...this is crazy. She knows as well as I know... we need to have sex frequently and consistently to better our marriage. She is on board it took me redefining for her what love really is about in a long-term marriage. She finally had the light bulb go off. 'you know he's right!".
> 
> You and I in essence did the same thing just a slightly different approach... either way both of us got what we wanted in the end... a decent sex life with the wives we love. My wife KNOWS this is the way out. She doesn't want to go down the other road. Shes happy I'm happy.
> 
> You keep on pushing sooner or later they come around. Just like a river carving a canyon takes a lot of time and then a catastrophic flood finishes the work of the river. The end is in sight...two more days.
> 
> I'm going to beat you by a year...in your face...just kidding thanks.


Suppose you don't have sex this weekend and next weekend. How soon are you ready to have that conversation as outlined by Halien? How soon are you going to bring out the divorce paperwork? You may have to put her in the position of having to fight for the marriage.


----------



## Darkhorse

Yea, I just think the OP should stop working for it and see if his wife picks up the slack.

Then he'd know how she really feels. It's scary to do, because maybe he already knows she wouldn't care...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Zzyzx said:


> Suppose you don't have sex this weekend and next weekend. How soon are you ready to have that conversation as outlined by Halien? How soon are you going to bring out the divorce paperwork? You may have to put her in the position of having to fight for the marriage.


Honestly I'm done and she knows that. I already leveled with both boys that I have done my best and that whatever happens it will be fine. Both of them understand and both of them have seen what lengths I've gone over the past two years. Believe me I wouldn't have "burdened" them with the info if I wasn't there. I felt it better to be honest so they weren't "wondering". They know things haven't been right for a while.

So this all translates in my attitude, resolve and tone to my wife that she fully understands this is a "critical" time frame.

So she has a way forward...its all on her.

She knows when I've reached my limit...she knows I'm there.


----------



## Darkhorse

Trying2figureitout said:


> Honestly I'm done and she knows that. I already leveled with both boys that I have done my best and that whatever happens it will be fine. Both of them understand and both of them have seen what lengths I've gone over the past two years. Believe me I wouldn't have "burdened" them with the info is I wasn't there.
> 
> So this all translates in my attitude, resolve and tone to my wife that she fully understands this is a "critical" time frame.
> 
> So she has a way forward...its all on her.
> 
> She knows when I've reached my limit...she knows I'm there.


Excellent. Now...just sit back and see what happens.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

uphillbattle said:


> I think I have had atleast 50 "lightbulb" moments with my wife. Not a single one changed anything. I told her the other day, I am done at the end of Feburary when our lease is up on the house. I get the impression she is just brushing it off but either I see change or I will stick with it.


My wife is different... she has always been 100% into this marriage and she knows her lack of action is making it crumble in front of her eyes. She IS responding last two and a half months have been eye opening in the change in her.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Darkhorse said:


> Excellent. Now...just sit back and see what happens.


That is exactly my plan...I'm OK whichever way this goes. If I have to start divorce proceedings bring it. Because I know that would work and if it didn't I'd be free. But I'd rather let her wrap her mind around what "love" really means first. Let her move forward without being forced.

Two years was my limit. Looking back I think I could have done it in one had I not "screwed" up in the beginning knowing what I know now. Either way I needed to FIX this marriage once and for all.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Darkhorse said:


> Yea, I just think the OP should stop working for it and see if his wife picks up the slack.
> 
> Then he'd know how she really feels. It's scary to do, because maybe he already knows she wouldn't care...


She might eventually but only when butterflies return if left to her.
She didn't understand that sex is critical for that to happen . She learned that recently I straightened her thought process out on what a long-term marriage needs for that to happen. She was lost..I had to change her thought process. Glad it's not libido!..I used that to my advantage also when I informed her of what needs to happen soon.

This was one big selfish period on her part. She realizes she is the issue. She wants to move on too.

We are both wanting to be fully happy again.


----------



## AFEH

Most don’t change unless actually dangling over the cliff face hanging onto a skimpy bit of rope. By then it’s usually too late and the other person holding the rope lets go.


----------



## Darkhorse

AFEH said:


> Most don’t change unless actually dangling over the cliff face hanging onto a skimpy bit of rope. By then it’s usually too late and the other person holding the rope lets go.


THANKFULLY my husband didn't let go. He let me dangle for a while until I got my shet together and then he pulled me up and life has been good since


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Trying2figureitout said:


> Wow... what an awesome post. Thanks.
> 
> I know half or maybe more of you think I have lost touch of reality. I haven't. My plan IS working.... my wife and I will have sex on Saturday and next Saturday...and ....
> 
> I have chosen my path.... I understand all of what you say above. The deal with MY wife is that as a main effort would not work... however in the future it may very well enhance our sex life. So I realy do appreciate it all.
> 
> This plan of mine WILL work. My wife has come around it's just pushing her over the edge... already done. We will have sex on Saturday. We will have sex next Saturday...
> 
> It has taken halfway into December rather than November but my weird convoluted plan worked on MY wife. She is very happy she needed to be led out of sexlessness.
> 
> I appreciate all the support its been a roller coaster... her and I are heading towards a healthy sexual marriage.:smthumbup:


He's back!!!!!! And Monday even if he says they had mindblowing sex all night, I won't believe it. She hasn't shown you any affection whatsoever since you started posting. Even when you do have sex you admit there doesn't seem to be too much passion or excitement either. 

For those who have given advise as to how to have more sex I always wonder if they truly have ever been in sexless marriages. Sure the advise seems sound and makes sense. However I seldom believe they actually work.


----------



## I'm me

Trying2figureitout said:


> She knows when I've reached my limit...she knows I'm there.


I wouldn't throw in the towel if she turns you down this weekend. If I were you, I would re-read Halien's post as well as the RDJ's thread which I believe is is aimed at you. Man I feel for you. We all do. Like everyone else, I hope you are right. I think your extremely overly optimistic. You are setting yourself for disappointment that way. Your focus is all anout sex when it should be about loving your wife. I know you do love her but your putting too much emphasis and pressure on her about sex. I'm sure she thinks that that's all you want from her. I could be wrong. 

Also, along with Halien's advice, I would suggest you nix the not giving Christmas gifts to your wife. I know that the 180 says to not give gifts but I believe that means to try to buy your spouse's favor. With Christmas gifts, you're not doing that. To me it seems like a punishment and spiteful. Surprise her and have something for her. Just my opinion. Just know that we all are pulling for you.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> He's back!!!!!! And Monday even if he says they had mindblowing sex all night, I won't believe it. She hasn't shown you any affection whatsoever since you started posting. Even when you do have sex you admit there doesn't seem to be too much passion or excitement either.
> 
> For those who have given advise as to how to have more sex I always wonder if they truly have ever been in sexless marriages. Sure the advise seems sound and makes sense. However I seldom believe they actually work.


Since the disconnect correct not much "passion" before there was passion... so this weekend who knows.

I won't lie to you about this that is not in my nature... overly optimistic maybe.


Don't you think I would have claimed victory already? No one wants to look lame which I have in the past here. But if this works... its all worth it.

Think of it...reality is stranger than fiction...no way would anyone waste their time making this stuff up.
Remember this is my therapy and also a way to help others in the same situation. Not sure if what I do translates
well to others but it does give a different approach I have not seen. If I can remedy sexless in two years plus one month I do believe my plan is among the fastest working. Its similar to RDJ's. Just tweaked a bit and I had no idea of his up until a few weeks ago. It seems that this overall approach does tend to work on certain spouses. Mine was a tough and independent spouse with extreme sexlessness long term. So if it works for me it may actually translate well to less extreme situations.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I'm me said:


> I wouldn't throw in the towel if she turns you down this weekend. If I were you, I would re-read Halien's post as well as the RDJ's thread which I believe is is aimed at you. Man I feel for you. We all do. Like everyone else, I hope you are right. I think your extremely overly optimistic. You are setting yourself for disappointment that way. Your focus is all anout sex when it should be about loving your wife. I know you do love her but your putting too much emphasis and pressure on her about sex. I'm sure she thinks that that's all you want from her. I could be wrong.
> 
> Also, along with Halien's advice, I would suggest you nix the not giving Christmas gifts to your wife. I know that the 180 says to not give gifts but I believe that means to try to buy your spouse's favor. With Christmas gifts, you're not doing that. To me it seems like a punishment and spiteful. Surprise her and have something for her. Just my opinion. Just know that we all are pulling for you.


I disagree with focus all about sex , multiple six month periods I just "went with the flow" I offered Celibacy for goodness sakes. I have done nothing but love my wife for two years without jack regularly from her! That is the purest form of love.

I will have sex on Saturday.

As for the XMas gift (it was a way to get her to see the seriousness and that all wasn't well)..I may surprise her like you said especially if she starts up sex again.

Thanks for pulling for me.


----------



## Laurae1967

COGypsy said:


> So if I remember right, two years ago she loved you, but wasn't 'in love' with you. And now, two years later, it's not that she doesn't get horny, her libido is just fine, thank you. It's really just that she needs more than these last two years you've spent bending over backwards in order to fall back 'in love' with you again.
> 
> What's confusing about that?
> 
> Nothing's changed. She still gets everything she's always had and you're spending Friday night with Rosie and her five sisters. What could be wrong with that when it's already worked for years, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS

She has zero incentive to get with the program because she knows she's got you by the balls. And when a woman has a guy by the balls, she rarely respects him. And if she doesn't respect him, she sure as hell isn't getting wet thinking about him.

TTFIO - My heart breaks for you because you don't seem truly willing change the dynamic in your relationship. You are so afraid of losing her that you keep on doing the same thing, hoping for a different outcome. You ask the same questions over and over, just in slighly different ways, hoping to hear something other than what we all keep telling you. You are not ready to deal with the truth - that you might have to get tough, and risk losing her, to save your marriage. Without risk there is no reward, though.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Laurae1967 said:


> THIS
> 
> She has zero incentive to get with the program because she knows she's got you by the balls. And when a woman has a guy by the balls, she rarely respects him. And if she doesn't respect him, she sure as hell isn't getting wet thinking about him.
> 
> TTFIO - My heart breaks for you because you don't seem truly willing change the dynamic in your relationship. You are so afraid of losing her that you keep on doing the same thing, hoping for a different outcome. You ask the same questions over and over, just in slighly different ways, hoping to hear something other than what we all keep telling you. You are not ready to deal with the truth - that you might have to get tough, and risk losing her, to save your marriage. Without risk there is no reward, though.


Laurae,

I'm not afraid of losing her , I don't want to but I'm not afraid at all.. I may have to leave or have her leave if things don't improve I realize that. Am I there yet... mentally yes in the near future. She is doing enough to show positive movement that I'm in wait and see mode over the next two weeks. She doesn't have me by the balls anymore...she did no longer.

Don't weep for me I'm good with where I'm at. I have gotten tougher with her as time has progressed. That will continue pending on her actions.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Trying2figureitout said:


> Laurae,
> 
> I'm not afraid of losing her , I don't want to but I'm not afraid at all.. I may have to leave or have her leave if things don't improve I realize that. Am I there yet... mentally yes in the near future. She is doing enough to show positive movement that I'm in wait and see mode over the next two weeks. She doesn't have me by the balls anymore...she did no longer.
> 
> Don't weep for me I'm good with where I'm at.


We know you have it all figured out.... Maybe time to change your screen name to Ihaveitallfiguredout..... But you've said the same things over and over for the past month and something get's in the way.

Really she has done absolutely nothing to address the situation except not be as terrible to you. How you put up with what you claimed you did for two years I don't know.


----------



## Darkhorse

Havesomethingtosay said:


> We know you have it all figured out.... Maybe time to change your screen name to Ihaveitallfiguredout..... But you've said the same things over and over for the past month and something get's in the way.
> 
> Really she has done absolutely nothing to address the situation except not be as terrible to you. How you put up with what you claimed you did for two years I don't know.


:smthumbup:


----------



## uphillbattle

Havesomethingtosay said:


> He's back!!!!!! And Monday even if he says they had mindblowing sex all night, I won't believe it.
> 
> I have to disagree with this. I may not agree with 99% of what he says but after the insane **** he was saying a couple of months ago, for it to flame and then for him to keep on truckin the way he has on here, he atleast seems to be honest. Maybe a bit delusional, but honest none the less.
> Keep on keepin on Trying. I still have my popcorn.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> We know you have it all figured out.... Maybe time to change your screen name to Ihaveitallfiguredout..... But you've said the same things over and over for the past month and something get's in the way.
> 
> Really she has done absolutely nothing to address the situation except not be as terrible to you. How you put up with what you claimed you did for two years I don't know.


I put up with it because I love my wife, I love my kids and I would not feel comfortable leaving them until I gave it my absolute best shot at rectifying what might just be a just "lull for a couple years period" in our marriage. I'm not sure whats wrong with that. In my opinion too many marriages fail when had a spouse stuck it out a little longer they might have turned around and ended up in a better marriage because they stuck it out. 

I'm a big things happen for a reason guy. I believe this happened so we can have a better marriage afterwards.

I want my kids to grow up in a loving healthy household... my wife and I need to be good role models so that when they grow up and have families they can emulate that. That's why I stay.

My wife has her issues obviously she is trying to overcome, I care for her in what I do for her and the family. I can put aside my needs for a period of time while she heals and I have. Now I will not do this forever if the love is gone its gone..but I don't think her or I feel that way at all...love is there just not in-love on her part she claims she just needs time, heck even I don't know if I'm "in-love" based on what has transpired.... I think all that is overrated. So Thats why I try. Not to mention the financial hit a divorce always causes. Everything else is great. Plus my in-laws are great. That alone is a plus.

So in a nutshell that's why I gave it my best for two years and continue to do so until I have no more to give. She knows this. BTW many sexless marriages take 3-4 years to turn around I'm at 2 years I want it turned around faster.

You all know this "recovery" is not on any schedule...when it happens it happens. All I know is that everyday I'm getting closer to the solution. I won't consider it a success until her and I are back to regular sex at an approximate weekly schedule over a six month period.

At least I feel normal and sex is not on my mind... so there is no urgency from that perspective. The longer this drags out that will change. I think it's about 75% that we will survive this to my satisfaction based on current events.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

uphillbattle said:


> Havesomethingtosay said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's back!!!!!! And Monday even if he says they had mindblowing sex all night, I won't believe it.
> 
> I have to disagree with this. I may not agree with 99% of what he says but after the insane **** he was saying a couple of months ago, for it to flame and then for him to keep on truckin the way he has on here, he atleast seems to be honest. Maybe a bit delusional, but honest none the less.
> Keep on keepin on Trying. I still have my popcorn.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you are enjoying the ride. Nice to have "fans" maybe I can make money selling T-shirts.
Click to expand...


----------



## Laurae1967

See, it's really NOT about the sex. The lack of sex is a symptom of the problem

So tell us what your WIFE has done to improve things over the last year?

Nobody is doubting your love for your wife and kids. What I am challenging is your method of trying to get your marriage back on track....and what you are NOT doing.


----------



## MEM2020

This is very sad. The longer this goes the lower your odds of success. Your wife has basically told you that she simply isn't going to meet your primary emotional need. And your response is to start talking about how you may just have to wait another year or two. 

Go to the experience project and you will find ten thousand plus withered souls who invested their lives in people who simply didn't love them back. Your W loves what you do for her. But that is very different than loving you. If she loved you, she would make an effort to please you one hour a week. Unless you are wired unlike a normal male, this is. Slowly destroying your self esteem. 

You talk tough. She faces you down. You flinch, she is hugely turned off by that fear response. And the cycle repeats.




Trying2figureitout said:


> I put up with it because I love my wife, I love my kids and I would not feel comfortable leaving them until I gave it my absolute best shot at rectifying what might just be a just "lull for a couple years period" in our marriage. I'm not sure whats wrong with that. In my opinion too many marriages fail when had a spouse stuck it out a little longer they might have turned around and ended up in a better marriage because they stuck it out.
> 
> I'm a big things happen for a reason guy. I believe this happened so we can have a better marriage afterwards.
> 
> I want my kids to grow up in a loving healthy household... my wife and I need to be good role models so that when they grow up and have families they can emulate that. That's why I stay.
> 
> My wife has her issues obviously she is trying to overcome, I care for her in what I do for her and the family. I can put aside my needs for a period of time while she heals and I have. Now I will not do this forever if the love is gone its gone..but I don't think her or I feel that way at all...love is there just not in-love on her part she claims she just needs time, heck even I don't know if I'm "in-love" based on what has transpired.... I think all that is overrated. So Thats why I try. Not to mention the financial hit a divorce always causes. Everything else is great. Plus my in-laws are great. That alone is a plus.
> 
> So in a nutshell that's why I gave it my best for two years and continue to do so until I have no more to give. She knows this. BTW many sexless marriages take 3-4 years to turn around I'm at 2 years I want it turned around faster.
> 
> You all know this "recovery" is not on any schedule...when it happens it happens. All I know is that everyday I'm getting closer to the solution. I won't consider it a success until her and I are back to regular sex at an approximate weekly schedule over a six month period.
> 
> At least I feel normal and sex is not on my mind... so there is no urgency from that perspective. The longer this drags out that will change. I think it's about 75% that we will survive this to my satisfaction based on current events.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

A high testosterone tomboy/female is typically aroused by a certain edge. That edge is not present in this marriage. And every time he takes a stand and then folds her respect diminishes. 


TE=Laurae1967;507794]See, it's really NOT about the sex. The lack of sex is a symptom of the problem

So tell us what your WIFE has done to improve things over the last year?

Nobody is doubting your love for your wife and kids. What I am challenging is your method of trying to get your marriage back on track....and what you are NOT doing.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> This is very sad. The longer this goes the lower your odds of success. Your wife has basically told you that she simply isn't going to meet your primary emotional need. And your response is to start talking about how you may just have to wait another year or two.
> 
> Go to the experience project and you will find ten thousand plus withered souls who invested their lives in people who simply didn't love them back. Your W loves what you do for her. But that is very different than loving you. If she loved you, she would make an effort to please you one hour a week. Unless you are wired unlike a normal male, this is. Slowly destroying your self esteem.
> 
> You talk tough. She faces you down. You flinch, she is hugely turned off by that fear response. And the cycle repeats.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not waiting another year or two. This needs solved in the short term. I'm not accepting the 3-4 years.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> A high testosterone tomboy/female is typically aroused by a certain edge. That edge is not present in this marriage. And every time he takes a stand and then folds her respect diminishes.


She has only experienced the "edge" over the past two months...I haven't folded at all its a continuation of the same "edge". I have a feeling that's why she has responded. I'm not letting her "settle in" again its all about constant "pressure".

As for the past year... not much up until two and a half months ago. She's been a good wife if you take the sex out of it all during her disconnect. We get along great apart from sex.


----------



## Halien

MEM11363 said:


> A high testosterone tomboy/female is typically aroused by a certain edge. That edge is not present in this marriage. And every time he takes a stand and then folds her respect diminishes.


I've always been very impressed by MEM's advice. Keep in mind, though, that you might think you have initiated a certain edge into the way you relate to your wife, but it might not be THE type of edge that works for your wife.

Someone commented about how some of us have not been ina situation where sex was absent. That's a really good point. But what I want to point out is that it does seem like you are building a strategy and adenda that you learned from men and women here, but may be missing a step, which is what I was trying to say in the last post. You have to know your wife, and what communicates your desire for her in a way that she responds to. Yes, she should've done her part, but you are doing a good job of trying to deal with what you have. Just appears that you are developing this plan with input from everyone except the silent language of your wife.

Lots of people think I'm alpha. I've apparently rubbed some posters wrong in the way I respond because of this. Would it surprise you to know that my wife can't stand alpha types - you know, the generic types out there? She definately likes a mix of beta traits, but needs an edge. When she was younger, she was very much pursued, but not interested in many types.

I've learned how my wife's idea of what excited her sexually matured as she grew up. I can tell you the first guy she had sexual thoughts about, and why. I know that my business voice turns her off, but she likes it when I talk like I do when I'm dreaming of 'what if'. If I do very specific nurturing activities with her children (our children), she will go from 0 to 60 mph by the time we get upstairs. Far from figuring her out, but she is very aware that I study her, but not in the creepy, obsessive way. More like learning the tilt of her head when I say or do something that makes her think about sex with me. Learning that she likes boldness, but would detest me with passion if it came across as a calculated series of events to get sex.

The goal and agenda should be to learn her, and how to move her in subtle ways. If you put this genuine effort into it, and she doesn't reciprocate, that's a whole different discussion.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Halien said:


> I've always been very impressed by MEM's advice. Keep in mind, though, that you might think you have initiated a certain edge into the way you relate to your wife, but it might not be THE type of edge that works for your wife.
> 
> Someone commented about how some of us have not been ina situation where sex was absent. That's a really good point. But what I want to point out is that it does seem like you are building a strategy and adenda that you learned from men and women here, but may be missing a step, which is what I was trying to say in the last post. You have to know your wife, and what communicates your desire for her in a way that she responds to. Yes, she should've done her part, but you are doing a good job of trying to deal with what you have. Just appears that you are developing this plan with input from everyone except the silent language of your wife. I want to do this right this time for both of us.
> 
> Lots of people think I'm alpha. I've apparently rubbed some posters wrong in the way I respond because of this. Would it surprise you to know that my wife can't stand alpha types - you know, the generic types out there? She definately likes a mix of beta traits, but needs an edge. When she was younger, she was very much pursued, but not interested in many types.
> 
> I've learned how my wife's idea of what excited her sexually matured as she grew up. I can tell you the first guy she had sexual thoughts about, and why. I know that my business voice turns her off, but she likes it when I talk like I do when I'm dreaming of 'what if'. If I do very specific nurturing activities with her children (our children), she will go from 0 to 60 mph by the time we get upstairs. Far from figuring her out, but she is very aware that I study her, but not in the creepy, obsessive way. More like learning the tilt of her head when I say or do something that makes her think about sex with me. Learning that she likes boldness, but would detest me with passion if it came across as a calculated series of events to get sex.
> 
> The goal and agenda should be to learn her, and how to move her in subtle ways. If you put this genuine effort into it, and she doesn't reciprocate, that's a whole different discussion.


Halien,

Great points.. I have thought of studying my wife and I think now that she is almost back to her normal self it ay be very worthwhile. Its tough to study when they aren't receptive but her and I have a good interaction going that I think she is starting to exhibit subtle quirks I can study. My wife is trying to rebuild what we had . One good thing that has come out of this is I do feel we will be much more able to talk about anything. I plan to talk to her about sex often in order to learn what makes her tick. I really believe she underneath has a strong libido...it's almost like we are starting over so it's exciting to think we can start fresh.I'm encouraging her to talk about any desire she has or need she has... I want this win/win.

Thanks for saying I was doing a good job.


----------



## Enginerd

Trying2figureitout said:


> Laurae,
> 
> I'm not afraid of losing her , I don't want to but I'm not afraid at all.. I may have to leave or have her leave if things don't improve I realize that. Am I there yet... mentally yes in the near future. She is doing enough to show positive movement that I'm in wait and see mode over the next two weeks. She doesn't have me by the balls anymore...she did no longer.
> 
> Don't weep for me I'm good with where I'm at. I have gotten tougher with her as time has progressed. That will continue pending on her actions.



You are all talk my man. You keep talking and waiting and talking and waiting and then say its up to her. She is the man and you are the women in your relationship. 

Peace


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Enginerd said:


> You are all talk my man. You keep talking and waiting and talking and waiting and then say its up to her. She is the man and you are the women in your relationship.
> 
> Peace


It is up to her..if she wants to continue sexless then I have my answer.


Look there is no reason to be rash here.,,, its not like you throw away a good marriage in every other aspect.. like that and break up an intact home for the kids. It may have to happen but I've really only been giving her the full court press for a couple months..chill.


You people crack me up sometimes. I'd like to see what you tough guys do. A lot of you are all talk too.

If you think I'm a women in the relationship... whatever.

Out


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

You've pretty much been sexless your entire marriage. You have said it is usually 15-20X's/yr. Many hear lament sexless marriages, however did have sex regularly for a number of years.

You never have. The best to expect is the 15-20X's/yr and the positions and foreplay you once had. Didn't you say you do all the work and she doesn't show affection, hugs or kisses. Heck you haven't had those in 2 years!!!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> You've pretty much been sexless your entire marriage. You have said it is usually 15-20X's/yr. Many hear lament sexless marriages, however did have sex regularly for a number of years.
> 
> You never have. The best to expect is the 15-20X's/yr and the positions and foreplay you once had. Didn't you say you do all the work and she doesn't show affection, hugs or kisses. Heck you haven't had those in 2 years!!!!!


That was mainly my fault, I was too accepting and nice... now I'm fixing it. It was like clockwork and that helped because I was expecting it...problems started when that expectation wasn't met at all.

I was actually OK with sex every 21-30 days (latter part of our marriage before it was more) because we had a lot of non-sexual contact and occasional finger play etc. I did this because I wanted to not press her on sex and that was about her normal desire level plus she sleeps so damn early. Now I'm correcting that because when that faltered thats when I acted out and she did ILYNILWY. We are not going back to that ever again.

I need a safety net built in that is why I'm insisting on weekly now. Time for my drive to be taken into account after she pulled this stunt. We have to find a middle frequency...weekly works.

Lately she has shown no affection (physically apart from the sex we managed after the disconnect)

My wife used to show more affection..but neither of us have been overly lovey duby. So in time we should get back to what we had earlier. I need to get a hot tub that was fun way back. Most of our 
intimacy though has been bedroom sex all along.


----------



## MEM2020

Halien,
There is a reason you have a wife who loves you and that is you "listen" with your ears and eyes and other senses. You know what works and does not. 

I freely agree there are many types of edge and individual women prefer some and dislike others. 

I do however believe that almost all women respond badly to a man who loudly states a boundary and then does not enforce it firmly.


QUOTE=Halien;507943]I've always been very impressed by MEM's advice. Keep in mind, though, that you might think you have initiated a certain edge into the way you relate to your wife, but it might not be THE type of edge that works for your wife.

Someone commented about how some of us have not been ina situation where sex was absent. That's a really good point. But what I want to point out is that it does seem like you are building a strategy and adenda that you learned from men and women here, but may be missing a step, which is what I was trying to say in the last post. You have to know your wife, and what communicates your desire for her in a way that she responds to. Yes, she should've done her part, but you are doing a good job of trying to deal with what you have. Just appears that you are developing this plan with input from everyone except the silent language of your wife.

Lots of people think I'm alpha. I've apparently rubbed some posters wrong in the way I respond because of this. Would it surprise you to know that my wife can't stand alpha types - you know, the generic types out there? She definately likes a mix of beta traits, but needs an edge. When she was younger, she was very much pursued, but not interested in many types.

I've learned how my wife's idea of what excited her sexually matured as she grew up. I can tell you the first guy she had sexual thoughts about, and why. I know that my business voice turns her off, but she likes it when I talk like I do when I'm dreaming of 'what if'. If I do very specific nurturing activities with her children (our children), she will go from 0 to 60 mph by the time we get upstairs. Far from figuring her out, but she is very aware that I study her, but not in the creepy, obsessive way. More like learning the tilt of her head when I say or do something that makes her think about sex with me. Learning that she likes boldness, but would detest me with passion if it came across as a calculated series of events to get sex.

The goal and agenda should be to learn her, and how to move her in subtle ways. If you put this genuine effort into it, and she doesn't reciprocate, that's a whole different discussion.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> Halien,
> There is a reason you have a wife who loves you and that is you "listen" with your ears and eyes and other senses. You know what works and does not.
> 
> I freely agree there are many types of edge and individual women prefer some and dislike others.
> 
> I do however believe that almost all women respond badly to a man who loudly states a boundary and then does not enforce it firmly.
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Halien;507943]I've always been very impressed by MEM's advice. Keep in mind, though, that you might think you have initiated a certain edge into the way you relate to your wife, but it might not be THE type of edge that works for your wife.
> 
> Someone commented about how some of us have not been ina situation where sex was absent. That's a really good point. But what I want to point out is that it does seem like you are building a strategy and adenda that you learned from men and women here, but may be missing a step, which is what I was trying to say in the last post. You have to know your wife, and what communicates your desire for her in a way that she responds to. Yes, she should've done her part, but you are doing a good job of trying to deal with what you have. Just appears that you are developing this plan with input from everyone except the silent language of your wife.
> 
> Lots of people think I'm alpha. I've apparently rubbed some posters wrong in the way I respond because of this. Would it surprise you to know that my wife can't stand alpha types - you know, the generic types out there? She definately likes a mix of beta traits, but needs an edge. When she was younger, she was very much pursued, but not interested in many types.
> 
> I've learned how my wife's idea of what excited her sexually matured as she grew up. I can tell you the first guy she had sexual thoughts about, and why. I know that my business voice turns her off, but she likes it when I talk like I do when I'm dreaming of 'what if'. If I do very specific nurturing activities with her children (our children), she will go from 0 to 60 mph by the time we get upstairs. Far from figuring her out, but she is very aware that I study her, but not in the creepy, obsessive way. More like learning the tilt of her head when I say or do something that makes her think about sex with me. Learning that she likes boldness, but would detest me with passion if it came across as a calculated series of events to get sex.
> 
> The goal and agenda should be to learn her, and how to move her in subtle ways. If you put this genuine effort into it, and she doesn't reciprocate, that's a whole different discussion.


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

I agree with the boundary statement that's why I plan to see this through to whatever end it takes me. I have not started to state any boundaries until about a month ago. She knows full well what its going to take. Her clock starts ticking from the point we have sex the first time.

I think that is part of the reason we didn't have sex in November...i let that slide albeit with an immediate response on Dec1... she wont get the same leeway this month. Boundaries do need to be enforced. This marriage is either getting fixed or heading to divorce. No in-between limbo junk. Two years was my limit. I will study my wife more... now that her and I are moving forward together.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
Please don't be offended by what I am about to say. If it were me I would invest in a voice activated recorder, a GPS system you can hide in her car AND a private investigator to observe her movements for a week or two. Something feels wrong to me. She keeps herself in incredible shape, tells you she DOES have a sex drive and yet has been in shut down mode with you for 2 years. 

I would give it a 50/50 on the affair front. And this is not a critique of you. If she is doing that - it is about her. But unless you have the GPS/VAR/Private investigator - I don't see how you could be so certain she isn't quietly slipping away for an hour or two a few times a week. 

I also think the fact she strongly prefers to sit on her own couch is a very, very bad sign. Not connected to adultery. But definitely connected to her emotional link to you. Sorry man. 

And my last thought for you is this. It is NOT your responsibility to figure this sex thing out. You have done what she asked for 2 years. The ball is in her court. If it were ME, I would calmly tell her that she is responsible for initiating and needs to do so at least once a week. Of course I would frame it as a question - "are you committed enough to the marriage to do ...."? 

And to me any answer other than yes would be a clear answer of where I stood.



Trying2figureitout said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with the boundary statement that's why I plan to see this through to whatever end it takes me. I have not started to state any boundaries until about a month ago. She knows full well what its going to take. Her clock starts ticking from the point we have sex the first time.

I think that is part of the reason we didn't have sex in November...i let that slide albeit with an immediate response on Dec1... she wont get the same leeway this month. Boundaries do need to be enforced. This marriage is either getting fixed or heading to divorce. No in-between limbo junk. Two years was my limit. I will study my wife more... now that her and I are moving forward together.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> Please don't be offended by what I am about to say. If it were me I would invest in a voice activated recorder, a GPS system you can hide in her car AND a private investigator to observe her movements for a week or two. Something feels wrong to me. She keeps herself in incredible shape, tells you she DOES have a sex drive and yet has been in shut down mode with you for 2 years.
> 
> I would give it a 50/50 on the affair front. And this is not a critique of you. If she is doing that - it is about her. But unless you have the GPS/VAR/Private investigator - I don't see how you could be so certain she isn't quietly slipping away for an hour or two a few times a week.
> 
> I also think the fact she strongly prefers to sit on her own couch is a very, very bad sign. Not connected to adultery. But definitely connected to her emotional link to you. Sorry man.
> 
> And my last thought for you is this. It is NOT your responsibility to figure this sex thing out. You have done what she asked for 2 years. The ball is in her court. If it were ME, I would calmly tell her that she is responsible for initiating and needs to do so at least once a week. Of course I would frame it as a question - "are you committed enough to the marriage to do ...."?
> 
> And to me any answer other than yes would be a clear answer of where I stood.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the boundary statement that's why I plan to see this through to whatever end it takes me. I have not started to state any boundaries until about a month ago. She knows full well what its going to take. Her clock starts ticking from the point we have sex the first time.
> 
> I think that is part of the reason we didn't have sex in November...i let that slide albeit with an immediate response on Dec1... she wont get the same leeway this month. Boundaries do need to be enforced. This marriage is either getting fixed or heading to divorce. No in-between limbo junk. Two years was my limit. I will study my wife more... now that her and I are moving forward together.


[/QUOTE]

Mem..

Not offended at all, I can not in good conscious rule out cheating 100%. I have monitored her phone records daily and identified all numbers and have all real names displayed I know who she calls/texts..no red flag there. Unless she has another phone..doubt it. She has told me that the gym is for "stress" she enjoys it and yes she is a total workout nut. Partly to help with her back and she has vein issues in her legs they clot up if she doesn't work them out she has had multiple surgeries on her legs and treatments very painful clots if she doesn't manage it. For as good of shape as she is in she still has many more physical issues than I do. Also picks up colds more than I do. Something to be said for not overdoing the gym.

If we don't start having regular sex I will take your advice. So far I "trust" my wife but I see where you are coming from. My wife is very social and she is very hot looking for her age. I'm sure she gets attention everywhere she goes. Honestly I would give cheating only about a 20% possibility at some point. But that is still significant. That would be a deal breaker because she would have lied to me about it more than anything else. She has stated "I'm not like that" I asked her the night of the disconnect flat out "Are you cheating?".

The couch thing is she is more comfortable laying down and watching TV her back and sciatic hurt. That couch is situated better for that...plus she gets away from the kids. I think its that mainly that. If I go over she doesn't get annoyed but with her laying down its small its a loveseat size.

As to your third point I may use that if things don't progress I do need to see how far she is willing to go to save this marriage. I feel very positive about this Saturday and next weekend at the Inn on the beach.

Honestly I think most of it has nothing to do with me (Her "reasons" never added up IMO no way should she be this long term disconnected). I believe its childhood trauma considering the sexual molestation allegations of her older sister. Also my wife has TMJ another sign of "abuse" she has never liked BJ's much (smallmouth/jaw hurts). I think I'm paying for her rougher childhood and ex- abusive relationships. Plus Peri-menopausal symptoms. Keep in mind she latched on to me originally she picked me out of a crowd then we had sex on the first date... she wanted get an apartment together after three months and she asked me to marry her after 3 years. So at some point she was hot for me obviously probably because I was nice and not a loser like she dated before. We had our first kid three years in marriage.

Right now I do believe her and I are actually in many ways closer emotionally than ever before. She trusts me fully. She is "trying" now. That is nice to see finally. I feel she will get the hots again as I've really changed for the better. I've upped my sex rank too. I'm enjoying the "chase". It'll make sex that much more grand.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Maybe this is why she is at the gym..... From a Dan Savage letter.

*"I am a 30-year-old woman with a strange problem. I recently started lifting weights, and every time I use the arm machines, I have an orgasm. It is not obvious to anyone else (I think), and my sex life is great outside of the gym. I don't know if I should stop using the machines, because it's rude and kind of weird to have that happening, but it just seems to be a physical reaction to using those muscles. What should I do?

Fitness Freaking

Another 20 reps.

...I got a lot of mail from people who insisted that the letter had to be fake. And maybe it is. But this Savage Love reader isn't the only woman out there who claims to have experienced spontaneous orgasms during exercise. And now science—science!—is on the case:

Anecdotally, some women will talk about having experienced sexual pleasure or orgasm while performing physical exercise, such as sit-ups, weight lifting or other forms of exercise. However, there has been very little scientific research on the topic. Women who are at least 18 years of age are invited to participate in a study about their experiences related to sexual pleasure and/or orgasm during physical exercise. To learn more about this anonymous, online survey, please visit the study web site at:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/womenandexercise*

T2FIO really I do hope you find happiness if you are the decent, wonderful, loving person you are, but really is it not time for you to talk to a professional about your issues and why you have gone through this for years upon years with your wife?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Maybe this is why she is at the gym..... From a Dan Savage letter.
> 
> *"I am a 30-year-old woman with a strange problem. I recently started lifting weights, and every time I use the arm machines, I have an orgasm. It is not obvious to anyone else (I think), and my sex life is great outside of the gym. I don't know if I should stop using the machines, because it's rude and kind of weird to have that happening, but it just seems to be a physical reaction to using those muscles. What should I do?
> 
> Fitness Freaking
> 
> Another 20 reps.
> 
> ...I got a lot of mail from people who insisted that the letter had to be fake. And maybe it is. But this Savage Love reader isn't the only woman out there who claims to have experienced spontaneous orgasms during exercise. And now science—science!—is on the case:
> 
> Anecdotally, some women will talk about having experienced sexual pleasure or orgasm while performing physical exercise, such as sit-ups, weight lifting or other forms of exercise. However, there has been very little scientific research on the topic. Women who are at least 18 years of age are invited to participate in a study about their experiences related to sexual pleasure and/or orgasm during physical exercise. To learn more about this anonymous, online survey, please visit the study web site at:
> 
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/womenandexercise*
> 
> T2FIO really I do hope you find happiness if you are the decent, wonderful, loving person you are, but really is it not time for you to talk to a professional about your issues and why you have gone through this for years upon years with your wife?


For me its a big "whatever" I can know I did my best. I don't need a professional... i just need a resolution one way or another. I've enjoyed every day of my life even through this period so I'm good.


----------



## Halien

MEM11363 said:


> Halien,
> There is a reason you have a wife who loves you and that is you "listen" with your ears and eyes and other senses. You know what works and does not.
> 
> I freely agree there are many types of edge and individual women prefer some and dislike others.
> 
> I do however believe that almost all women respond badly to a man who loudly states a boundary and then does not enforce it firmly.


I do agree with you. In fact, I never verbalize a boundary without enforcing it with extreme predjudice. That's just me. What I was getting at was that the OP seems to be trying to treat this like a project. Well, I'm a certified 6 Sigma Black Belt. If my project involves making people want to buy the car my company builds, the very first step is DEFINE the problem. He did that. Buy my car. For him, its get more sex. The next step is MEASURE. Find out what subtle triggers make a person respond well to a particular car. Measure the tangible characteristics. His wife doesn't live in a nunnery. In the past, there have been things that make her think of sex, and want it. Sounds cold and sterile when its described that way, but I've seen very little description of what works for her. But you are absolutely right. If you say that you expect her to start responding in a way that supports the goal here, it has to start right now, here, with no hedging, or you will do XXXX. 

At first, I thought the OP would realize that behaving like Don Quixote would not accomplish anything, and he'd fade into the sunset. The guy is sticking around, and I think he's desperatly trying to fix a very bad situation. And, he's going out of his way to try to help other people who post here. That's commendable. Sometimes, the way to get a person who is very stubbornly committed to one path to take a step back is to adjust your advice to their own apparent way of thinking.

Me, I've always wondered if a person's padded butt actually makes a plodding noise when it hits the curb, followed by the whomp as air rushes out of the lungs on impact. I personally think it would be time to answer this intriguing question, if you get my drift. No disrespect intended, though. We're all different.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Halien said:


> I do agree with you. In fact, I never verbalize a boundary without enforcing it with extreme predjudice. That's just me. What I was getting at was that the OP seems to be trying to treat this like a project. Well, I'm a certified 6 Sigma Black Belt. If my project involves making people want to buy the car my company builds, the very first step is DEFINE the problem. He did that. Buy my car. For him, its get more sex. The next step is MEASURE. Find out what subtle triggers make a person respond well to a particular car. Measure the tangible characteristics. His wife doesn't live in a nunnery. In the past, there have been things that make her think of sex, and want it. Sounds cold and sterile when its described that way, but I've seen very little description of what works for her. But you are absolutely right. If you say that you expect her to start responding in a way that supports the goal here, it has to start right now, here, with no hedging, or you will do XXXX.
> 
> At first, I thought the OP would realize that behaving like Don Quixote would not accomplish anything, and he'd fade into the sunset. The guy is sticking around, and I think he's desperatly trying to fix a very bad situation. And, he's going out of his way to try to help other people who post here. That's commendable. Sometimes, the way to get a person who is very stubbornly committed to one path to take a step back is to adjust your advice to their own apparent way of thinking.
> 
> Me, I've always wondered if a person's padded butt actually makes a plodding noise when it hits the curb, followed by the whomp as air rushes out of the lungs on impact. I personally think it would be time to answer this intriguing question, if you get my drift. No disrespect intended, though. We're all different.


I agree this is it my last attempt at a fix... My plan is to give her until end of FEB. If still not where I need to be...then we start heading down the divorce path. I might insist on MC first or I might just file not sure yet. 

I already told her we are going one of two directions AND there was another decision point in the future (Which I hoped would go better than the last one... two months plus ago) In essence its a six month window. So I do have an exit plan. My "recovery" plan expires at six months. I am very "project" oriented in my thought process.


All you are right...I don't know my wifes sexual triggers enough. I can be a little obtuse sometimes. I will take the advice to study and probe more into what drives her sexually. For instance I was sure it was libido... I was clueless.

I will not accept a sexless marriage and she knows that. Its her fault at this point if this goes sour. Two years of sexless was my limit. Decision point 1 done heading to #2.


----------



## Halien

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree this is it my last attempt at a fix... My plan is to give her until end of FEB. If still not where I need to be...then we start heading down the divorce path. I might insist on MC first or I might just file not sure yet.
> 
> I already told her we are going one of two directions AND there was another decision point in the future (Which I hoped would go better than the last one... two months plus ago) In essence its a six month window. So I do have an exit plan. My "recovery" plan expires at six months. I am very "project" oriented in my thought process.
> 
> .


Sorry if it comes across as not being concerned about your situation - I do have a wierd sense of humor. I just don't think a person deserves to be in a situation where you love someone intensely, and have to put yourself in such a vulnerable position where it becomes like a frantic obsession at times. She has to understand how it affects you. If she thinks you are clueless about how to love her in a way that makes her feel valued, at least she could tell you, or leave. 

Maybe you have certain misconceptions about seeing a therapist, but a good one can help us see that we can walk under a cloud of paradigms that would seem completely alien to our wives. Just trying harder along a foreign paradigm will only push us away from the one we are trying to love. You could learn a lot by deconstructing the way you approach this, under the guidance of a therapist, and learning to think like your wife. It could also present you with the irrefutable evidence that your wife is broken beyond hope. The therapist is a guide, and going to one isn't admitting that you are faulty in some way. It might help you navigate this problem.


----------



## RDJ

Here is my thought of HER side of the story.

He was not a very good husband for some time, he was neglecting, yelling at her and the kids, used her for sex when he could, not understanding that his actions were what caused her to not want sex.

She hung in there for the sake of the family until she ended up completely disengaged.

He kept pushing for something that she did not feel until she finally came out and told him that she was no longer in love with him.
He freaked out, pushed even harder, and pushed her further away. He finally realized what he was doing, so he tried to play nice. He would do so for a length of time, then try to have sex with her, she would say no because she knew she was being manipulated. 

He would then loose it again, threatening, blaming, and expressing that there was something wrong with her for not wanting sex after he “changed”.

But the truth is. He never really changed. Every time she tests him, he fails miserably. He goes right back to manipulating, threatening, expressing that she is all effed up. She has a low libido, she has issues that need to be fixed, she is wrong for not wanting sex with such an awesome guy.

A guy that has tried to fix her in place of fixing himself, sure he acts like he has changed, yet he throws some kind of fit when enough time has passed (in his book) or he is tested. He always proves that he has not really matured, he is still trying every manipulative tactic that he can to tell her that she WILL have sex with him, OR ELSE!

I am starting to think that she wants the marriage, if not she would walk away. She just keeps waiting for him to quit brow beating, manipulating, threatening, and blaming her for the fact that his actions have always, and still are the underlying issue.

Things will change when he shuts up and starts creating a loving, passionate, she is free environment that she can trust!

Think about it, she was trying, she tried to let him give her massages, she tried to let her feeling come back, but every time she does, he wants sex. 

He kills it. 

Yes it’s been two years, but two years of constant pressure/manipulation of one form or another?

So ttfio, be honest. Is this the real truth? 

If so, I’m sorry, but if I were her, I would not be inspired to have sex with you either.

I’m not trying to put you down, how do I know this scenario?

I was this man; I had to change for real. Yes, I too had to get to the point of letting her go, but the reason that made an impact was because she knew that I really had change, she came back to the new man, not the old one.

Think about it, that’s all I ask.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

RDJ said:


> Here is my thought of HER side of the story.
> 
> He was not a very good husband for some time, he was neglecting, yelling at her and the kids, used her for sex when he could, not understanding that his actions were what caused her to not want sex.
> 
> She hung in there for the sake of the family until she ended up completely disengaged.
> 
> He kept pushing for something that she did not feel until she finally came out and told him that she was no longer in love with him.
> He freaked out, pushed even harder, and pushed her further away. He finally realized what he was doing, so he tried to play nice. He would do so for a length of time, then try to have sex with her, she would say no because she knew she was being manipulated.
> 
> He would then loose it again, threatening, blaming, and expressing that there was something wrong with her for not wanting sex after he “changed”.
> 
> But the truth is. He never really changed. Every time she tests him, he fails miserably. He goes right back to manipulating, threatening, expressing that she is all effed up. She has a low libido, she has issues that need to be fixed, she is wrong for not wanting sex with such an awesome guy.
> 
> A guy that has tried to fix her in place of fixing himself, sure he acts like he has changed, yet he throws some kind of fit when enough time has passed (in his book) or he is tested. He always proves that he has not really matured, he is still trying every manipulative tactic that he can to tell her that she WILL have sex with him, OR ELSE!
> 
> I am starting to think that she wants the marriage, if not she would walk away. She just keeps waiting for him to quit brow beating, manipulating, threatening, and blaming her for the fact that his actions have always, and still are the underlying issue.
> 
> Things will change when he shuts up and starts creating a loving, passionate, she is free environment that she can trust!
> 
> Think about it, she was trying, she tried to let him give her massages, she tried to let her feeling come back, but every time she does, he wants sex.
> 
> He kills it.
> 
> Yes it’s been two years, but two years of constant pressure/manipulation of one form or another?
> 
> So ttfio, be honest. Is this the real truth?
> 
> If so, I’m sorry, but if I were her, I would not be inspired to have sex with you either.
> 
> I’m not trying to put you down, how do I know this scenario?
> 
> I was this man; I had to change for real. Yes, I too had to get to the point of letting her go, but the reason that made an impact was because she knew that I really had change, she came back to the new man, not the old one.
> 
> Think about it, that’s all I ask.


RDJ... Point well taken. Perhaps it is me and my approach. I do believe my wife does want to stay married (She has stated if she didn't she'd be gone) I just don't know... I'm trying my best and multiple times I have "Gone with he flow" for up to 6 months... just loving on her and not saying a word or getting upset. Its hard when there is such sporadic sex to tolerate past six months without saying anything. 

Let me make a correction... I never have yelled at my wife.

So just shut off my sex drive is the answer then and just tolerate if forever right? 

I don't know.. guess I'll find out over the next few weeks and then decide what to do... maybe you are right RDJ.


its obviously some thing ...Perhaps it is me and my actions and I'm the reason she can't fall in love again yet. Boy this is hard so many angles to consider.

But at what point does she bear some responsibility.... positive reinforcement helps you know.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Halien said:


> Sorry if it comes across as not being concerned about your situation - I do have a wierd sense of humor. I just don't think a person deserves to be in a situation where you love someone intensely, and have to put yourself in such a vulnerable position where it becomes like a frantic obsession at times. She has to understand how it affects you. If she thinks you are clueless about how to love her in a way that makes her feel valued, at least she could tell you, or leave.
> 
> Maybe you have certain misconceptions about seeing a therapist, but a good one can help us see that we can walk under a cloud of paradigms that would seem completely alien to our wives. Just trying harder along a foreign paradigm will only push us away from the one we are trying to love. You could learn a lot by deconstructing the way you approach this, under the guidance of a therapist, and learning to think like your wife. It could also present you with the irrefutable evidence that your wife is broken beyond hope. The therapist is a guide, and going to one isn't admitting that you are faulty in some way. It might help you navigate this problem.


Maybe i could use therapy... I'll consider it thanks.


----------



## AFEH

T2, it takes two to tango, it really does. But you are negotiating in such a crap way! You give, give, give and get damn all in return! Shame on you lol. You must be the most terrible negotiator on the planet. All you will do is run your assets (emotional, spiritual, energy, finances, tolerance, patience, empathy) totally and utterly into the ground. Negative equity, you’ll have it in spades.


It could be that your wife is totally playing you and that she knows you far far better than you know yourself. And that you can’t see it because you are so focused on getting your end away. You are probably thinking with your penis, that’s all you can see, all you are ultimately focused on.

To see what’s really going on you have to take your “self” out of the equation. In that your point of view is massively subjective such that you simply will not see what is really there, what is really going on.

But how do you take yourself out of the equation such that you get not a subjective but an objective view of what’s going on? Buy and read the book Awareness (Anthony de Mello) and you will learn how to see yourself (and others) in the dynamics of your life in ways you’ve never seen before. Most typically don’t live more than an inch outside their own head, Anthony helps you take your very subjective blinkers off and see yourself and others in ways you never would have thought possible. The lessons he teaches will last you a life time.

There are a few here on TAM who have read the book and it’s made big positive changes to their lives.


----------



## RDJ

Trying2figureitout said:


> So just shut off my sex drive is the answer then and just tolerate if forever right?


Not all all, just don't make it your primary focus. You come off appearing that you are obsessed with it. You have to have the emotional connection nailed before you can nail the physical. 



> But at what point does she bear some responsibility.... positive reinforcement helps you know.


I believe that she has. Very small efforts indeed, but efforts that you may not recognise or appriciate, because your goal is sex. Your goal should be to simply love your wife.

Her efforts will come in baby steps, just being nice is an effort, a kiss (even a small one), a hug, a touch, a foot rub, a nice dinner, a Christmas gift, they are all efforts. When you recognise them, you appriciate them, you aknowledge and praise them, they just may increase over time. Not your time frame, hers. Appriciate it/her and it just may lead to *her wanting *more, not your pushing her too.

A quote that I very much believe in. "A MAN does not react to his woman, a woman reacts to HER MAN!" (Calle Zorro)


----------



## RDJ

Don't get me wrong here. I am a firm believer in setting and maintaining boundaries.

But boundaries when it comes to sex, hard to inforce, it's her body, she will only share it if she wants too, and rightly so.

You don't/can't force her to want you, you inspire her to want you.


----------



## AFEH

Here’s a question.

Does a guy have any chance on planet earth of getting the “knowledge” he needs for manliness, sex, comfort, stability and all the fine things he enjoys, by posting in a ladies forum?

My answer is NO. In that I learn from Men in how to be a Man.

T2 I reckon you are sucking up to women simply because you posted here. Forget that stuff and change your life.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

RDJ - Have you followed his posts from day 1? As usual I wonder when I read a woman speaking in tongues and expecting us stoopid men to understand what you are saying. I really am not sure what you are saying for him to do or act (and no need for clarification). He and all men do a million things (or so I hope) for the one's we love, and I'll let you in on a secret (as a male)...... We want sex!!!!! That is why we do all this for you..... Because somewhere in the back of our mind a small part of it is because we want to be "rewarded" with sex....

Of course if you have read T2FIO from day one he has done some heinous things to his wife (his letters and demands), but conversely if he has been honest been an incredible husband too since the ILYBNILWU conversation 2 years ago and his wife an unfeeling shrew.

As for AFEH, T2FIO is here in the Ladies' Lounge because of his threads in other sections were treated with such contempt and ridicule, he removed many and this is the safest refuge.


----------



## RDJ

Havesomethingtosay said:


> RDJ - Have you followed his posts from day 1? As usual I wonder when I read a woman speaking in tongues and expecting us stoopid men to understand what you are saying. I really am not sure what you are saying for him to do or act (and no need for clarification). He and all men do a million things (or so I hope) for the one's we love, and I'll let you in on a secret (as a male)...... We want sex!!!!! That is why we do all this for you..... Because somewhere in the back of our mind a small part of it is because we want to be "rewarded" with sex....
> 
> Of course if you have read T2FIO from day one he has done some heinous things to his wife (his letters and demands), but conversely if he has been honest been an incredible husband too since the ILYBNILWU conversation 2 years ago and his wife an unfeeling shrew.
> 
> As for AFEH, T2FIO is here in the Ladies' Lounge because of his threads in other sections were treated with such contempt and ridicule, he removed many and this is the safest refuge.


FYI, I am a MAN! I do enjoy sex, but my life, my happiness is not determind by my ****! I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

RDJ said:


> FYI, I am a MAN! I do enjoy sex, but my life, my happiness is not determind by my ****! I'll leave it at that.


Who would have guessed..... My bad.....:scratchhead:


----------



## Catherine602

Havesomethingtosay said:


> RDJ - Have you followed his posts from day 1? As usual I wonder when I read a woman speaking in tongues and expecting us stoopid men to understand what you are saying. I really am not sure what you are saying for him to do or act (and no need for clarification). He and all men do a million things (or so I hope) for the one's we love, and I'll let you in on a secret (as a male)...... We want sex!!!!! That is why we do all this for you..... Because somewhere in the back of our mind a small part of it is because we want to be "rewarded" with sex....
> 
> Of course if you have read T2FIO from day one he has done some heinous things to his wife (his letters and demands), but conversely if he has been honest been an incredible husband too since the ILYBNILWU conversation 2 years ago and his wife an unfeeling shrew.
> 
> As for AFEH, T2FIO is here in the Ladies' Lounge because of his threads in other sections were treated with such contempt and ridicule, he removed many and this is the safest refuge.


I wouldn't ask for assistance in the men's section if this were the general state of mind. 

I differ with AFEH who thinks he has nothing to learn about being a man from women. That would be fine if he were going to be a monk or was into men. The problem with advocating that men should ignore the input of women is that they do the same thing in their relationships. They call it a success when they ignore the wife for years and then they descend into bitterness and misogyny when their men only attitude makes her cut off sex, cheat or leave their azzzes. 

Women put up with the type of man who think women have no influence on the direction of their masculinity until they reach a tipping point and just suddenly stop. Comes as a complete surprise because he thought that the relationship was good because he successfully thwarted her attempt to tell him, a man, what to do. 

That 's what May have happened to Trying. Now he is playing catch up trying to learn the aspects of being a man that women can give him. His wife is not a selfish shrew, she is not forgiving him for depleting her in the past. I think she should be kind enough to tell him once and for all that she wants him to leave and not keep him dangling. Women who refuse their husbands are not shrews. 

To think that you must take the view that no matter what a man does, he is entitled to regular sex from his wife just because he wants it. Especially the manly men who eskew any female influence. The problem with that old fashioned view is it is obviously not working. If it were, sexless marriages would not be endemic. 

If you think getting the comfort of sex from a woman is something you learn from men you are sadly mistaken. Learning sex from men may get you laid. There are women who will settle for these men with no skills for a husband but I'll bet these are the men who fill out the ranks of the sex starved, have a cheating wives or be get dumped within 10 years. Male type sex works if you hook up and don't plan on coming back but it won't get you through a marriage. Accepting some direction from woman, especially about how to have and maintain a sexually satisfying relationship, will go a long way toward developing into a real men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trenton

AFEH said:


> Here’s a question.
> 
> Does a guy have any chance on planet earth of getting the “knowledge” he needs for manliness, sex, comfort, stability and all the fine things he enjoys, by posting in a ladies forum?
> 
> My answer is NO. In that I learn from Men in how to be a Man.
> 
> T2 I reckon you are sucking up to women simply because you posted here. Forget that stuff and change your life.


You can learn how to be a Man from a man but if you want to learn how to love a woman, you should ask a Woman. I get that many men feel women don't know what they need/want to be loved but that is actually just a flaw in some of what is taught in the teaching of Men in how to be a Man.


----------



## RDJ

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Who would have guessed..... My bad.....:scratchhead:


With all due respect, that attitude is most likely whats holding T2 back. When a MAN can understand a womans view, that is when he will connect with her. It does not have to strip his manhood, in fact, it enhances it.

If your lucky, someday you may understand that yourself. If you do, youll be a better man for it.

Just my opinion!


----------



## Trenton

Ironically, I thought Havesomethingtosay was a woman--A woman that was stalking Tryingtofigureitout. heh


----------



## uphillbattle

Trenton said:


> You can learn how to be a Man from a man but if you want to learn how to love a woman, you should ask a Woman. I get that many men feel women don't know what they need/want to be loved but that is actually just a flaw in some of what is taught in the teaching of Men in how to be a Man.


Before I came to this site I was getting advice from just women. It got my wife 4 years of me kissing her ass as she walked all over me. While I may still be with a wife who shows she loves me about as much as a pet rock, atleast I now have gained quite a bit of self respect back.
It is a mix between the two, not just a woman's point of view or a man's point of view that is the most helpful.


----------



## Trenton

uphillbattle said:


> Before I came to this site I was getting advice from just women. It got my wife 4 years of me kissing her ass as she walked all over me. While I may still be with a wife who shows she loves me about as much as a pet rock, atleast I now have gained quite a bit of self respect back.
> It is a mix between the two, not just a woman's point of view or a man's point of view that is the most helpful.


I agree. I think that is the healthiest way to go. You never know who you will learn from so it's best to be open to learning in general.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Catherine602 said:


> I wouldn't ask for assistance in the men's section if this were the general state of mind.
> 
> I differ with AFEH who thinks he has nothing to learn about being a man from women. That would be fine if he were going to be a monk or was into men. The problem with advocating that men should ignore the input of women is that they do the same thing in their relationships. They call it a success when they ignore the wife for years and then they descend into bitterness and misogyny when their men only attitude makes her cut off sex, cheat or leave their azzzes.
> 
> Women put up with the type of man who think women have no influence on the direction of their masculinity until they reach a tipping point and just suddenly stop. Comes as a complete surprise because he thought that the relationship was good because he successfully thwarted her attempt to tell him, a man, what to do.
> 
> That 's what May have happened to Trying. Now he is playing catch up trying to learn the aspects of being a man that women can give him. His wife is not a selfish shrew, she is not forgiving him for depleting her in the past. I think she should be kind enough to tell him once and for all that she wants him to leave and not keep him dangling. Women who refuse their husbands are not shrews.
> 
> To think that you must take the view that no matter what a man does, he is entitled to regular sex from his wife just because he wants it. Especially the manly men who eskew any female influence. The problem with that old fashioned view is it is obviously not working. If it were, sexless marriages would not be endemic.
> 
> If you think getting the comfort of sex from a woman is something you learn from men you are sadly mistaken. Learning sex from men may get you laid. There are women who will settle for these men with no skills for a husband but I'll bet these are the men who fill out the ranks of the sex starved, have a cheating wives or be get dumped within 10 years. Male type sex works if you hook up and don't plan on coming back but it won't get you through a marriage. Accepting some direction from woman, especially about how to have and maintain a sexually satisfying relationship, will go a long way toward developing into a real men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?

Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.

If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.


----------



## RDJ

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?
> 
> Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.
> 
> If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.


Havesomethingtosay,

I don't disagree with you. There is no question that she is mis-treating T2, she appears, at minimum, bitter.

The point I was trying to express was could she be bitter due to built up resentment towards T2. Resentment that she clearly needs to let go of. But could he be making it harder for her through his continued actions?

The letter, the comments about no presents, expressing she has a low labido issue, expressing that they will have sex on his terms or the marriage will end.

If she was already bitter when she expressed the ILYBNILWY, have his actions inspired her to love him, or given her more reasons to continue resenting him?

Assuming this may be the case, would his treating her better for x amount of months remove that bitterness? Unlikely when he gets frustrated and comes back with more of the same.

Not to throw T2 under the bus here, but to think that during those months of backing down, there were not attitudes, little digs, subtle comments, looks, or behaviors that did not express his unhappiness and frustration (perfectly norman on his part) with her. To me, is most likely unrealistic. In other words, has he been throwing gas on the fire?

Again, if this is the case, she needs to learn to let go of the past. She needs to invest in the marriage as much as him. But he would first need to quit throwing gas on the fire long enough for her to think possitive of him.

He no doubt has to set some serious boundaries, but she is not going to listen to any of them if she is continually pi$$ed off at him. No woman wants to have sex with a man she is pi$$ed off at! I'm sure there are many here that would agree?

Is this the case for T2? He would know better than I, I simply asked that he consider it.

Wheather you agree or not, does that help clear up my thoughts?


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
Let me be the first to say that right now it must be difficult for you to read through all this conflicting advice and figure out what makes sense and what doesn't. 

I am going to try to give you a few things to think about. The first is that a regular sex life (loosely at minimum once a week) is a "normal" part of a healthy marriage. You shouldn't have to be perfect or a world class chess player/genius puzzle solver to figure out how to get your W to have sex with you. She has directly told you that in the basic day to day stuff you are doing everything she asked. 

At a glance, if she cared about how YOU felt, she would WANT to please you. But I think somehow you have created a very bad dynamic where she doesn't really respect you and is very turned off by some of your behaviors. 

While I think you are factually honest, your perceptions of subjective situations seem quite inaccurate. For example, you have aggressively claimed victory several times and boasted about how your clever approach "solved" your intimacy problems. Totally separate from this sex problem, if you generally behave in that manner in daily life your W does not like it. In fact is likely very turned off by it. A confident man has no need to loudly declare victory prematurely. 

And without meaning to, I think you send her a LOT of mixed messages. For instance you describe a period of time during which you stopped saying "ILY" to her. This was the beginning of you "lowering the temperature". And yet during that same time you were getting up at 5 AM and making her breakfast every day which is a serious act of service/demonstration of love. 

After all this time I also think the way you talk about the expected outcome is not consistent with enforcing boundaries. It is consistent with believing you are entitled to tell your W what to do. 

You were a bit angry at one of the posters here the other day and made a sarcastic comment about what all the "tough guys" here would really do if they were in your shoes. 

Let me give you an example of boundary enforcement vs. trying to tell a spouse what to do. But ultimately ALL boundary enforcement is predicated on a single foundational concept: The willingness to walk away if your partner can't respect your boundaries. 

One of my boundaries is that I will not stay with a spouse who does not love me and prioritize my needs. My W has the same boundary. Generally neither of us even gets near that boundary line with the other. 

You have had about 20 years to figure your W out. What is it you think you are going to learn between now and February? Have you really/truly thought about what it will take for her to respect you? 

Instead of tolerating sex 15 times a year, did you ever try to figure out why she didn't especially like sex? Because that frequency was the minimum she knew you would tolerate without tension/conflict. It wasn't something she particularly liked. And I say that because if she HAD liked it, it would have been a LOT more frequent than that. 





Trying2figureitout said:


> RDJ... Point well taken. Perhaps it is me and my approach. I do believe my wife does want to stay married (She has stated if she didn't she'd be gone) I just don't know... I'm trying my best and multiple times I have "Gone with he flow" for up to 6 months... just loving on her and not saying a word or getting upset. Its hard when there is such sporadic sex to tolerate past six months without saying anything.
> 
> Let me make a correction... I never have yelled at my wife.
> 
> So just shut off my sex drive is the answer then and just tolerate if forever right?
> 
> I don't know.. guess I'll find out over the next few weeks and then decide what to do... maybe you are right RDJ.
> 
> 
> its obviously some thing ...Perhaps it is me and my actions and I'm the reason she can't fall in love again yet. Boy this is hard so many angles to consider.
> 
> But at what point does she bear some responsibility.... positive reinforcement helps you know.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

RDJ said:


> Havesomethingtosay,
> 
> I don't disagree with you. There is no question that she is mis-treating T2, she appears, at minimum, bitter.
> 
> The point I was trying to express was could she be bitter due to built up resentment towards T2. Resentment that she clearly needs to let go of. But could he be making it harder for her through his continued actions?
> 
> The letter, the comments about no presents, expressing she has a low labido issue, expressing that they will have sex on his terms or the marriage will end.
> 
> If she was already bitter when she expressed the ILYBNILWY, have his actions inspired her to love him, or given her more reasons to continue resenting him?
> 
> Assuming this may be the case, would his treating her better for x amount of months remove that bitterness? Unlikely when he gets frustrated and comes back with more of the same.
> 
> Not to throw T2 under the bus here, but to think that during those months of backing down, there were not attitudes, little digs, subtle comments, looks, or behaviors that did not express his unhappiness and frustration (perfectly norman on his part) with her. To me, is most likely unrealistic. In other words, has he been throwing gas on the fire?
> 
> Again, if this is the case, she needs to learn to let go of the past. She needs to invest in the marriage as much as him. But he would first need to quit throwing gas on the fire long enough for her to think possitive of him.
> 
> He no doubt has to set some serious boundaries, but she is not going to listen to any of them if she is continually pi$$ed off at him. No woman wants to have sex with a man she is pi$$ed off at! I'm sure there are many here that would agree?
> 
> Is this the case for T2? He would know better than I, I simply asked that he consider it.
> 
> Wheather you agree or not, does that help clear up my thoughts?


You are absolutely right. I have been sarcastic in my comments and the back and forths with T2FIO. The two of them currently if we are to believe what has been written live in as toxic, cruel and nasty relationship as can be, with T2FIO treated as rubbish and him retaliating with ridiculous statements, notes and expectation. They don't even talk face to face (usually only texts and his letters). Forget her complete lack of intimacy, hugs, kisses..... And don't for a second think that I don't think he has brought it on himself. 

Poor T2FIO, thinks he has solved a rubics cube, while his wife has treated him with such derision for years on end.

The two need intense psychological counseling.


----------



## Catherine602

HSTS I have read Trying's post for some time. I have commented in many of the threads he started. My response was mostly in response to AFEH's criticism of him for posting in the Ladies section and accusation that he was sucking up to women. To me, it is a shaming tactic and sophomoric . He is troubled enough - he does not need useless coments like a grade school boy telling him "yooouu play with girls na na na na naaaaa na". 

He has gotten some of the cruelest and most spiteful responses from men that I have ever read on TAM. Why? He is desperate for any help. He does not listen to man nor woman and that may be a clue to the problems between hIm e and his wife. 

They are not comprehending each other; they are each on a parallel track with a two- way radio for communication - each talking at each other at the same time and thinking the other is not listening. It is a complex problem that needs major intervention . 

I happen to think she is cheating. Call me paranoid but 2 hrs at a gym is strange for a woman who has no time for her husband. 

I don't think that demonizing his wife or dismissing a womans input is helpful. Trying's troubled marriage is not a tableau of the battle between the sexes. It is unique to those two people and as intractable as it seems to be, the solution is not to shoot the beotch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

I think she is cheating as well. 




Catherine602 said:


> HSTS I have read Trying's post for some time. I have commented in many of the threads he started. My response was mostly in response to AFEH's criticism of him for posting in the Ladies section and accusation that he was sucking up to women. To me, it is a shaming tactic and sophomoric . He is troubled enough - he does not need useless coments like a grade school boy telling him "yooouu play with girls na na na na naaaaa na".
> 
> He has gotten some of the cruelest and most spiteful responses from men that I have ever read on TAM. Why? He is desperate for any help. He does not listen to man nor woman and that may be a clue to the problems between hIm e and his wife.
> 
> They are not comprehending each other; they are each on a parallel track with a two- way radio for communication - each talking at each other at the same time and thinking the other is not listening. It is a complex problem that needs major intervention .
> 
> I happen to think she is cheating. Call me paranoid but 2 hrs at a gym is strange for a woman who has no time for her husband.
> 
> I don't think that demonizing his wife or dismissing a womans input is helpful. Trying's troubled marriage is not a tableau of the battle between the sexes. It is unique to those two people and as intractable as it seems to be, the solution is not to shoot the beotch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Wow... lots to consider you all are great.

Let me just say RDJ.. you are the man I really took your advice to heart today.

I don't want to jinx anything so I'm going to wait and see BUT i think what I did today will be the final step to resolving sexlessness in my marriage.

Stay tuned. I'll give you all an update after the weekend. I have to concentrate to tomorrow etc.

:smthumbup:


I like the ladies lounge..there is good advice here and the best of the male posters follow me over here anyhow. I'm one of those people follow no matter where I post. Thanks.

I think a lot of you have the wrong picture of me and my wife's internal relationship that's probably my fault for being a little extreme posting. 

She is not cheating. We are getting along great. Likely to have sex tomorrow.
My wife had issues they are melting away everyday.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Trying2figureitout said:


> Wow... lots to consider you all are great.
> 
> Let me just say RDJ.. you are the man I really took your advice to heart today.
> 
> I don't want to jinx anything so I'm going to wait and see BUT i think what I did today will be the final step to resolving sexlessness in my marriage.
> 
> Stay tuned. I'll give you all an update after the weekend. I have to concentrate to tomorrow etc.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> I like the ladies lounge..there is good advice here and the best of the male posters follow me over here anyhow. I'm one of those people follow no matter where I post. Thanks.
> 
> I think a lot of you have the wrong picture of me and my wife's internal relationship that's probably my fault for being a little extreme posting.
> 
> She is not cheating. We are getting along great. Likely to have sex tomorrow.
> My wife had issues they are melting away everyday.


But you don't even talk directly to each other (texts, email & letters). I really am at a lost, and while transfixed at your posts (the reason I signed up on TAM), you still have not had a true conversation with her. Whether you are an egotistical, blind sob or a pathetic wimp of a husband, I really can not decide.

Maybe you two deserve each other.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> But you don't even talk directly to each other (texts, email & letters). I really am at a lost, and while transfixed at your posts (the reason I signed up on TAM), you still have not had a true conversation with her. Whether you are an egotistical, blind sob or a pathetic wimp of a husband, I really can not decide.
> 
> Maybe you two deserve each other.


We talk all the time. Yes I have talked to her about our situation the issue is she will be ok for a while then she shuts down. My wife saves every letter and e-mail... for me that works to get through to her. Its working so chill. She re-reads the letters and the e-mails...they sink in without the emotions involved. I've seen her cry at a letter never in conversation. Letters speak to her heart.

If this "pathetic wimp" turns his sex life around in about two years and creates a great marriage again.. then what am I?

I don't think I'm any of what you call me... I'm simply a dedicated husband trying his best to keep the family together and to have a decent normal sex life with my wife. My methods have been questionable by some... for me though they will be a solution.

It is working... we will have a decent sex life soon and it will be the best ever for us. You all need to chill out. I know what I'm doing... yes I've made mistakes but who hasn't. Also if you are not or haven't been through a sexless marriage you have NO IDEA what it is like. So understand that also. My wife is very lucky it's me I'm very patient and committed to this marriage. She WILL come around soon. I give her another 30 days if I were basing it on what is happening... she is almost there.

You all will miss me once my marriage gets fixed so enjoy the drama now I enjoy all of you even the hecklers. I'll put the entire plan up before I leave for future benefit...lots I've left out. I will beat out RDJ in time of repair by many months... he has been invaluable to me lately as has Judith.

My wife was quite possibly the hardest nut to crack also. IMO.

I'm good have a nice day everyone. Even HaveSomething.

Please don't berate my wife. She has issues as anyone does. i don't have a problem with her so neither should any of you. Attack me if you want leave her out of it. Most of this is my fault I'm remedying it now.


----------



## Mrs. T

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all know this "recovery" is not on any schedule...when it happens it happens. All I know is that everyday I'm getting closer to the solution. I won't consider it a success until her and I are back to regular sex at an approximate weekly schedule over a six month period.
> 
> At least I feel normal and sex is not on my mind... so there is no urgency from that perspective. The longer this drags out that will change. I think it's about 75% that we will survive this to my satisfaction based on current events.


 Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Mrs. T said:


> Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.


Quit feeding the monster (yes I'm guilty too . Of course you make sense, but I have to say as a normal male, yes sex is always on our minds, so I can't laugh at T2FIO for that, just the way he expresses it like a maniac on TAM and has in letters to his wife.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Mrs. T said:


> Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.


Just so you know I adjusted that via two new emails that I have not disclosed here based partly on what RDJ said.

I don't know for sure if I'm going to have sex tonight... and I don't care. My latest emails take this in a slightly different direction but I don't want to jinx it. So I think there is a very high probability we still have sex tonight or next weekend at the beach inn and then fairly regularly afterwards eventually to a normal frequency in the middle of our drives plus more variety i may actually get a full BJ one day from her. I'm 99.98% certain in a fairly short period her and i will no longer be living in a 'sexless" marriage.... so stay tuned. I will explain everything later in detail. I am not a monster.


Let me give you a hint... money talks.












Just kidding.


----------



## RDJ

Mrs. T said:


> Sex is not on your mind?? I'd say that's really all your concerned with and it certainly does sound pretty scheduled...This Saturday...sex, and the Saturday after that...and the Saturday after that...I'm really curious how you managed to get her to miraculously change her willingness and outlook on sex from not wanting it at all to agreeing to perform every Saturday.


I have to agree!

T2,

The odds are that you did not just come up with a miracle that is going to get you sex on a weekly basis. If you went to her and expressed that you knew you were responsible for her actions, she may show some signs of relief. She may even feel so happy that you "get it" that she has sex with you???

But even if she does, what are you going to do next week, the week after, and every week from now on?

If you are baseing your happiness on weekly sex, the first time she she does not comply, you will be a wreck again, she will know it, and you will go right back to square one. 

You keep thinking that you have solved the problem, when you do, you set yourself up for failure. There is NO quick magic solution, your solution will come with your changing, your learning to become the man that inspires her sexual side on a consistant basis. That in itself is your best shot, but not a for sure thing, she also has some serious changes to make. That may come in time, but it wont if you don't make serious changes first.

Relax, your heading the right direction, but it's going to take time.


----------



## that_girl

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Again, have you followed T2FIO's saga from the beginning or just coming into the fray, not reading about what she has done to him, the lack of affection, no hugs, kisses, acknowledgement or intimacy (not sex) and at least one incident where he was treated as a cuckold for not just the 2 years since ILYBNILWY, but for many many years (if you believe him)?
> 
> Now I have been as vocal and nasty as anyone about his plan, his letters, his demands and actions as anyone. But this certainly sounds like a mutually destructive relationship.
> 
> If you haven't, then you could not begin to understand why and what I posted.


I do agree.

Nothing has worked for him.

She has the control, and knows it.

I don't know where the breaking point is...but dang...


----------



## Mrs. T

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Quit feeding the monster (yes I'm guilty too . Of course you make sense, but I have to say as a normal male, yes sex is always on our minds, so I can't laugh at T2FIO for that, just the way he expresses it like a maniac on TAM and has in letters to his wife.


 ok Something...I understand the male sex drive, really. I am a woman but my sex drive is basically on the same level as a man's (twice a day and I'm content). I also understand sex is a major part of a healthy marriage. My husband's sex drive has declined much in the last year and a half so I know the frustrations involved when you feel unfulfilled, unsatisfied. Taking all that into account I guess the thing that rubs me wrong here is T2FIO's talk of letters and texting and "plans"...like he has this all mapped out complete with timeline. I know we live in an age of texting and emails but in something as important as a marriage...whatever happened to good old take my hand and sit me down communication? If my husband used texting as a means of working out our sexual issues I'd flush his phone down the toilet.

T2FIO...perhaps I should apologise for being offensive but something about your tactics got under my skin and rubbed me wrong.


----------



## Mrs. T

Trying2figureitout said:


> Let me give you a hint... money talks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding.


LOL...can I retract my retraction???


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Mrs. T said:


> ok Something...I understand the male sex drive, really. I am a woman but my sex drive is basically on the same level as a man's (twice a day and I'm content). I also understand sex is a major part of a healthy marriage. My husband's sex drive has declined much in the last year and a half so I know the frustrations involved when you feel unfulfilled, unsatisfied. Taking all that into account I guess the thing that rubs me wrong here is T2FIO's talk of letters and testing and "plans"...like he has this all mapped out complete with timeline. I know we live in an age of texting and emails but in something as important as a marriage...whatever happened to good old take my hand and sit me down communication? If my husband used texting as a means of working out our sexual issues I'd flush his phone down the toilet.
> 
> T2FIO...perhaps I should apologise for being offensive but something about your tactics got under my skin and rubbed me wrong.


No offense I love all you posters... I enjoy the fact that my tatics get under your skin...and if they work..even better!

I'm the Tim Tebow of marriage repair. Ugly but works.

In the end a win is a win.

Aren't I loveable? My wife thinks so now


----------



## RDJ

Mrs. T said:


> ok Something...I understand the male sex drive, really. I am a woman but my sex drive is basically on the same level as a man's (twice a day and I'm content). I also understand sex is a major part of a healthy marriage. My husband's sex drive has declined much in the last year and a half so I know the frustrations involved when you feel unfulfilled, unsatisfied. Taking all that into account I guess the thing that rubs me wrong here is T2FIO's talk of letters and testing and "plans"...like he has this all mapped out complete with timeline. I know we live in an age of texting and emails but in something as important as a marriage...whatever happened to good old take my hand and sit me down communication? If my husband used texting as a means of working out our sexual issues I'd flush his phone down the toilet.
> 
> T2FIO...perhaps I should apologise for being offensive but something about your tactics got under my skin and rubbed me wrong.


Exactly! If it's a tactic, it's not going to work. Sincerity to change, yes! From Both!


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just so you know I adjusted that via two new emails that I have not disclosed here based partly on what RDJ said.
> 
> I don't know for sure if I'm going to have sex tonight... and I don't care. My latest emails take this in a slightly different direction but I don't want to jinx it. So I think there is a very high probability we still have sex tonight or next weekend at the beach inn and then fairly regularly afterwards eventually to a normal frequency *in the middle of our drives plus more variety i may actually get a full BJ one day* from her. I'm 99.98% certain in a fairly short period her and i will no longer be living in a 'sexless" marriage.... _so stay tuned_. I will explain everything later in detail. I am not a monster.
> 
> 
> Let me give you a hint... money talks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding.


I can hardly wait..... And eventually the Book and Hollywood treatment..... I'm so excited to find out......


----------



## RDJ

T2,

Hope you did not miss this one 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...t-my-wife-ladies-standpoint-8.html#post510303


----------



## Trying2figureitout

RDJ said:


> T2,
> 
> Hope you did not miss this one
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...t-my-wife-ladies-standpoint-8.html#post510303


RDJ...I got this thank you...I know full well it's a marathon NOT a sprint. Trust me now I am backing off and just letting my efforts ride.. there is NO MORE PLAN. It's all just loving her from here on out... she will come around. I won't get upset if there are backslides. But I did tweak your advice.. I'll let you know what I did after this gets repaired. I think my latest method is actually better than yours in terms of time. We'll see.

The only plan is to work on myself. Also keep lines of communication open.

You guys finally pounded that message through my thick skull.

Thanks

I like "T2" sounds cool.


----------



## RDJ

Trying2figureitout said:


> RDJ...I got this thank you...I know full well it's a marathon NOT a sprint. Trust me now I am backing off and just letting my efforts ride.. there is NO MORE PLAN. It's all just loving her from here on out... she will come around. I won't get upset if there are backslides. But I did tweak your advice.. I'll let you know what I did after this gets repaired. I think my latest method is actually better than yours in terms of time. We'll see.
> 
> The only plan is to work on myself. Also keep lines of communication open.
> 
> You guys finally pounded that message through my thick skull.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> I like "T2" sounds cool.


My opinion, Now your talking!


Side note: Welcome back ThatGirl, I for one missed the friskyness you bring to this board.


----------



## that_girl

RDJ said:


> My opinion, Now your talking!
> 
> 
> Side note: Welcome back ThatGirl, I for one missed the friskyness you bring to this board.


Heya ! Thanks


----------



## Laurae1967

TTFIO - I was your wife in my first marriage. I cheated. My husband jumped through hoops to try to change, took on all the responsibility of making the marriage work. Our psycho (in retrospect) MC also blamed my husband for MY infidelity!

My point is that not once did my first husband demand respect from me. Never once did he hold me accountable. I had all the power and I knew it. And you know what, I lost all respect for him and we divorced.

My husband never made ME work to get him back. After a year of trying to work things out (me just sitting back and doing nothing while my husband jumped through hoop after hoop after hoop to win me back), we divorced. It was only after that that I realized that I was the problem. I put my poor first husband through so much pain because I was not able to be accountable for my own part in the marriage and sadly, nobody else (my husband, our MC) held me accountable.

Trying to win over your cheating wife (I am convinced she has or is cheating) by killing her with kindness just doesn't work. And I'm sad for you because you think it does. 

If my husband had turned to me and said "You don't deserve me, you cheater" that would have gotten my attention. If he had told me that he wasn't sure if he could be with me anymore, I would have felt I had something worth working towards. But everyone around me indulged my dysfunction. Everyone pandered to me like the spoiled child I was acting like.

I finally got my **** together, but what a waste of a marriage. We have two sons together and are great coparents, but I still wonder "what if". But my first husband was too much of a nice guy like you. Who knows, maybe the marriage would have ended anyway, but I sure wish I had had someone tell my husband the things you are being told on this site.

We've been divorced 12 years and I'm happily remarried now, having done a lot of soul searching and a lot of personal growth. I am not a bad person, but I sure behaved like one the last year of my first marriage. 

Don't be like my first husband! Don't be afraid to make your wife work to win you back. Showering her with love, admiration, affection, and attention does NOT work in this situation (where she's just not into you and still pining for an affair partner).


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Laurae1967 said:


> TTFIO - I was your wife in my first marriage. I cheated. My husband jumped through hoops to try to change, took on all the responsibility of making the marriage work. Our psycho (in retrospect) MC also blamed my husband for MY infidelity!
> 
> My point is that not once did my first husband demand respect from me. Never once did he hold me accountable. I had all the power and I knew it. And you know what, I lost all respect for him and we divorced.
> 
> My husband never made ME work to get him back. After a year of trying to work things out (me just sitting back and doing nothing while my husband jumped through hoop after hoop after hoop to win me back), we divorced. It was only after that that I realized that I was the problem. I put my poor first husband through so much pain because I was not able to be accountable for my own part in the marriage and sadly, nobody else (my husband, our MC) held me accountable.
> 
> Trying to win over your cheating wife (I am convinced she has or is cheating) by killing her with kindness just doesn't work. And I'm sad for you because you think it does.
> 
> If my husband had turned to me and said "You don't deserve me, you cheater" that would have gotten my attention. If he had told me that he wasn't sure if he could be with me anymore, I would have felt I had something worth working towards. But everyone around me indulged my dysfunction. Everyone pandered to me like the spoiled child I was acting like.
> 
> I finally got my **** together, but what a waste of a marriage. We have two sons together and are great coparents, but I still wonder "what if". But my first husband was too much of a nice guy like you. Who knows, maybe the marriage would have ended anyway, but I sure wish I had had someone tell my husband the things you are being told on this site.
> 
> We've been divorced 12 years and I'm happily remarried now, having done a lot of soul searching and a lot of personal growth. I am not a bad person, but I sure behaved like one the last year of my first marriage.
> 
> Don't be like my first husband! Don't be afraid to make your wife work to win you back. Showering her with love, admiration, affection, and attention does NOT work in this situation (where she's just not into you and still pining for an affair partner).


Oh, oh...... Now you've done it.... T2FIO will now post his "I am not a nice guy anymore" thread explaining he told his wife she is not getting a Xmas present and one day he did not get up and make her breakfast to prove his point.....


----------



## Catherine602

^^^^ This T2^^^^^
Laurae1967 did you ever tell your ex what this? I bet it would make him feel much better about what happened.


----------



## MEM2020

Laurae,
In some way my W is similar to you. She has never cheated however every once in a while she does something fairly aggressive. And when called on it she escalates. And every few years she ramps that escalation right up to "I am not sure I can keep doing this". 

And my response to that has always been the same: "if you aren't happy and wish to part ways I accept that it is your right to do so". And her response to hearing that is totally cookie cutter:
1. Absolute fury - I mean "glad we don't own a handgun" type fury at me
2. A day of cool down
3. A sincere apology for being "crazy" - to which I respond "not crazy just upset, glad you feel better"
4. Saturation sex for a week or two 

fWIW I don't consider her behavior abusive. I honestly don't know what triggers it. She has acknowledged that she likes to "fight" now and then because it is "cathartic". 99 percent of the time we aren't fighting. And she is overall a great wife. But if I ever started trying to apologize when she was the aggressor, I believe we would quickly get to a bad place.





TE=Laurae1967;510354]TTFIO - I was your wife in my first marriage. I cheated. My husband jumped through hoops to try to change, took on all the responsibility of making the marriage work. Our psycho (in retrospect) MC also blamed my husband for MY infidelity!

My point is that not once did my first husband demand respect from me. Never once did he hold me accountable. I had all the power and I knew it. And you know what, I lost all respect for him and we divorced.

My husband never made ME work to get him back. After a year of trying to work things out (me just sitting back and doing nothing while my husband jumped through hoop after hoop after hoop to win me back), we divorced. It was only after that that I realized that I was the problem. I put my poor first husband through so much pain because I was not able to be accountable for my own part in the marriage and sadly, nobody else (my husband, our MC) held me accountable.

Trying to win over your cheating wife (I am convinced she has or is cheating) by killing her with kindness just doesn't work. And I'm sad for you because you think it does. 

If my husband had turned to me and said "You don't deserve me, you cheater" that would have gotten my attention. If he had told me that he wasn't sure if he could be with me anymore, I would have felt I had something worth working towards. But everyone around me indulged my dysfunction. Everyone pandered to me like the spoiled child I was acting like.

I finally got my **** together, but what a waste of a marriage. We have two sons together and are great coparents, but I still wonder "what if". But my first husband was too much of a nice guy like you. Who knows, maybe the marriage would have ended anyway, but I sure wish I had had someone tell my husband the things you are being told on this site.

We've been divorced 12 years and I'm happily remarried now, having done a lot of soul searching and a lot of personal growth. I am not a bad person, but I sure behaved like one the last year of my first marriage. 

Don't be like my first husband! Don't be afraid to make your wife work to win you back. Showering her with love, admiration, affection, and attention does NOT work in this situation (where she's just not into you and still pining for an affair partner).[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Laurae1967

Catherine602 said:


> ^^^^ This T2^^^^^
> Laurae1967 did you ever tell your ex what this? I bet it would make him feel much better about what happened.


Yes, I told my ex as soon as I had my epiphany and for years after apologized to him often. Finally he just said "it's water under the bridge". It did take me many years to get forgive myself for being so destructive, though.


----------



## Laurae1967

MEM11363 said:


> Laurae,
> In some way my W is similar to you. She has never cheated however every once in a while she does something fairly aggressive. And when called on it she escalates. And every few years she ramps that escalation right up to "I am not sure I can keep doing this".
> 
> And my response to that has always been the same: "if you aren't happy and wish to part ways I accept that it is your right to do so". And her response to hearing that is totally cookie cutter:
> 1. Absolute fury - I mean "glad we don't own a handgun" type fury at me
> 2. A day of cool down
> 3. A sincere apology for being "crazy" - to which I respond "not crazy just upset, glad you feel better"
> 4. Saturation sex for a week or two
> 
> fWIW I don't consider her behavior abusive. I honestly don't know what triggers it. She has acknowledged that she likes to "fight" now and then because it is "cathartic". 99 percent of the time we aren't fighting. And she is overall a great wife. But if I ever started trying to apologize when she was the aggressor, I believe we would quickly get to a bad place.
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like the stable force she needs in her life. Did she have a dysfunctional childhood? Sounds like she pushes you away/tests you and then when you hold your ground, she feels safe. Not the most mature coping style, but hey, we are all works in progress. She is LUCKY to have you as her rock and you are incredibly insightful not to take it personally. You da man!:smthumbup:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

My wife has not cheated IMO even though all you say she has... I don't buy it for one second.

Yes I stood up to her. 
She has a decision to make. Yes I called her out on all she has put me through... Stay tuned. She has a lot to think about.

Laurea I called her out just like you wish your x did just without the "cheating" part. on. Back to work i'll check in later on.


----------



## MEM2020

She had a very nice childhood. Happy one. No abuse of any type. She is: playful, adventurous, risk taking, smart, mildly sadistic and very Tom boyish. She is just likes a good full blown emotional tussle every once in a while. Not my favorite thing but it is not frequent and in between she is fantastic. 

BUT: if I let her she would castrate me and then we would be celibate and both of us would be a lot less happy. I don't say that to bash her. I am just saying what I believe to be true. 

It is also true that this dynamic is part of e reason our marriage has so much passion and lately a lot of great sex.  




QUOTE=Laurae1967;510596]


MEM11363 said:


> Laurae,
> In some way my W is similar to you. She has never cheated however every once in a while she does something fairly aggressive. And when called on it she escalates. And every few years she ramps that escalation right up to "I am not sure I can keep doing this".
> 
> And my response to that has always been the same: "if you aren't happy and wish to part ways I accept that it is your right to do so". And her response to hearing that is totally cookie cutter:
> 1. Absolute fury - I mean "glad we don't own a handgun" type fury at me
> 2. A day of cool down
> 3. A sincere apology for being "crazy" - to which I respond "not crazy just upset, glad you feel better"
> 4. Saturation sex for a week or two
> 
> fWIW I don't consider her behavior abusive. I honestly don't know what triggers it. She has acknowledged that she likes to "fight" now and then because it is "cathartic". 99 percent of the time we aren't fighting. And she is overall a great wife. But if I ever started trying to apologize when she was the aggressor, I believe we would quickly get to a bad place.
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like the stable force she needs in her life. Did she have a dysfunctional childhood? Sounds like she pushes you away/tests you and then when you hold your ground, she feels safe. Not the most mature coping style, but hey, we are all works in progress. She is LUCKY to have you as her rock and you are incredibly insightful not to take it personally. You da man!:smthumbup:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Sunday afternoon and no update..... Like a soap opera, I need my fix..... Oh no!!!!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Sunday afternoon and no update..... Like a soap opera, I need my fix..... Oh no!!!!!!



I didn't try sex last night as my wife was simply too tired and so was I... our kids wore us both out psychologically yesterday. We had a great day though together, I did give her a nice non-sexual massage.... pretty sure either tonight or next Saturday will be the start of our new sex life. I'm laying low because I'm concentrating on my life right now. As soon as there are any major updates i will keep you posted. Sorry no drama for you.


----------



## Laurae1967

TTFIO - You don't owe ANYONE an update unless you need advice. Who cares what anyone on here thinks about you or your situation?

This is your life, not a game, not a soap opera. Kind of disappointing how some folks have reduced it to that, though. Don't buy into it, TTFIO!


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Absolutely right, he has no responsibility or need to answer anyone. I have followed his saga, and admit to being more then mildly curious as to the outcome.

If he is as decent a person, a great husband, provider, father as he claims to be (though I don't necessarily believe it), I want to see him happy. I however believe the only way to find happiness is to leave his wife and find a sexual woman who will give him all he has yearned for in his posts. His kids are in their teens, and I from what I've read think his wife has treated him deplorably for many many years (before the ILYBNILWY statement). He deserves to be happy IF he has been honest in his threads..... And it is a very big IF in my opinion.

But let me point out Saturday was yet another date he has trumpeted, where nothing happened.....

He f'ing can't even get a kiss, hug or a show of affection from her.....


----------



## LimboGirl

T2,

You really need to get IC. Your posts seem to say you are obsessed with making this work. You need someone who can help you take a step back and really look at yourself, your wife, and your relationship.

I can relate to your situation somewhat. Not in a sexless marriage, but for years I thought I could fix the relationship. You can't change her. I've been going to therapy for way over a year now. It has helped me tremendously. The biggest difference is letting go of obsessing about the relationship. You can only change you.

Please get some help. As far as staying in the relationship for your boys, here is something to think about. I did just that. My son is 20. My daughter is 17. Just the other day she said she doesn't really have any memories of us being happy. She commented on how angry her father used to be. She said it was scary and that she avoids conflict because of it. That is not healthy. Staying has its negative effects, also. I'm not saying to leave and that I know the answer. I'm saying go to IC and get some real answers for yourself.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Absolutely right, he has no responsibility or need to answer anyone. I have followed his saga, and admit to being more then mildly curious as to the outcome.
> 
> If he is as decent a person, a great husband, provider, father as he claims to be (though I don't necessarily believe it), I want to see him happy. I however believe the only way to find happiness is to leave his wife and find a sexual woman who will give him all he has yearned for in his posts. His kids are in their teens, and I from what I've read think his wife has treated him deplorably for many many years (before the ILYBNILWY statement). He deserves to be happy IF he has been honest in his threads..... And it is a very big IF in my opinion.
> 
> But let me point out Saturday was yet another date he has trumpeted, where nothing happened.....
> 
> He f'ing can't even get a kiss, hug or a show of affection from her.....


Thanks for the thoughts... I don't mind posting a little bit until something happens because I want you all to share my joy IF I am able to turn around a pretty severe sexless marriage.

Havesomethingtosay... For me it's not all about sex, yes its my favorite thing to do and yes my wife has hurt me by "withholding" it from me. We both caused this and we are both trying to rectify this the best way her and I can.

I did a little experiment a while back for an entire day I looked at all other women throughout the day, I asked myself is there "anyone" that if I was divorced I'd want to walk up to and start a conversation to meet them as a future sexual partner.... I could find no one. My wife is better than any random woman for me... that being said I'm not afraid to lose her.

My wife has NOT treated me "deplorably" over the years (well perhaps the last two maybe in terms of sex) BUT throughout my marriage up until the ILYNILWY I felt I was the luckiest man in the world... The "low" sex life was mostly my doing in order to make my wife's life easier. I didn't realize it would ever change so I was satisfied. When it did I acted out, so now I want to build in an expected "safety net" so her and I never get to that point again. When we have sex we will begin a NEW sex life and her and I are already so much more emotionally connected that our sex will mean more than anything when it does happen. 

I have been honest, I am a "good" husband who made some mistakes, never did I "intend" to hurt my wife in any fashion.. but obviously I did. All I'm trying to do is rectify our life together. My wife was also equally at fault... her taking and already low sex life all the way down to twice in 2011.... means she has some serious emotional trauma she needs to process. It likely isn't all about me. She IS coming around... this isn't the best time of year to attempt a "recovery" because of all she has going on. But her and I are trying and we will solve this together.. we have a night at a beach side Inn on Saturday... it's likely she is waiting for that night to restart our intimacy... if it leads to sex great, If not I got to enjoy my wife's company alone. 

As for the fact my wife won't kiss me, hug me or show affection. Again part my doing, we have never been overly affectionate, she is independent and a tomboy. Our sex life was our connection. I do believe we will start to be more affectionate though. I believe she needs more non-sexual affection from me so do plan to start kissing her again.. I have already started that process slowly. She is not a typical cuddling type female.. she is not a big kisser, she doesn't even like expensive jewelry etc. I have to treat her a little different that a typical girl... my wife is a little harder to figure out. I wish jewelry did the trick etc.

To all thanks for helping and the nice thoughts . My wife and I are getting there it won't be much longer I feel. We are moving together now not apart.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> T2,
> 
> You really need to get IC. Your posts seem to say you are obsessed with making this work. You need someone who can help you take a step back and really look at yourself, your wife, and your relationship.
> 
> I can relate to your situation somewhat. Not in a sexless marriage, but for years I thought I could fix the relationship. You can't change her. I've been going to therapy for way over a year now. It has helped me tremendously. The biggest difference is letting go of obsessing about the relationship. You can only change you.
> 
> Please get some help. As far as staying in the relationship for your boys, here is something to think about. I did just that. My son is 20. My daughter is 17. Just the other day she said she doesn't really have any memories of us being happy. She commented on how angry her father used to be. She said it was scary and that she avoids conflict because of it. That is not healthy. Staying has its negative effects, also. I'm not saying to leave and that I know the answer. I'm saying go to IC and get some real answers for yourself.


Thanks I may go to IC I already told my wife that was likely... like you said I am too connected to her based on how she has disrespected my needs... I told her that too.

My boys are happy... there is NO ANGER in our marriage. The boys know mom and dad are not as close though. So it does affect them although I talk to them and keep them updated so they are not in the dark wondering. They both fully understand what is going on... they are both OK with the situation. They are helping me by staying out of our bedroom and weening my wife off their emotional and physical support in our bedroom. They understand that Mom was using them for comfort. They both understand they need to back off so that she seeks comfort from me instead. THey still love her outside our bedroom.

Our family life is happy... our situation strictly affects my wife and I. To the boys its pretty much the same as always. I have stopped entirely trying to fix my wife... I am only fixing myself and raising my boys. I have a lot to teach them about life and women before they enter he world on their own.


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## LimboGirl

Trying2figureitout;512248 They are helping me by staying out of our bedroom and weening my wife off their emotional and physical support in our bedroom. They understand that Mom was using them for comfort. They both understand they need to back off so that she seeks comfort from me instead. THey still love her outside our bedroom.
[/QUOTE said:


> How old are your boys? Would you care to explain what you mean by staying out of your bedroom?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> How old are your boys? Would you care to explain what you mean by staying out of your bedroom?


Sure i have a few minutes...

My boys are 12 and 15.... the youngest is immature for his age and he tends to drive the whole family bonkers. He has a good heart though. He and the older one fight a lot.

I told both boys they were being a "barrier" to my wife and i restarting intimacy... our bedroom had become another family room with the youngest in bed with my wife watching TV. Hard for her and I to restart intimacy when her bedtime is before our boys bedtime. So I leveled with them they are old enough to understand. Stay out of our bedroom!

They both know dad and moms bedroom is off-limits for settling in watching TV or snugging with my wife in bed. My kids know NOT to give my wife any foot rubs or such SHE was using them as a replacement for me.

So they both understand and know that they are only allowed in temporarily to give mom a quick hug or goodnight kiss so no more extra family room in my bedroom ever unless I invite them in..which is very unlikely.

The kids understand completely they realize that their mom has used them for comfort in bed in lieu of me. They both want the family to survive and I told them both there were no guarantees so they are simply trying to help. They understand. They give mom plenty of love outside our bedroom still.

I feel the kids need to be in the loop... it's a learning experience for them too.
At least they know what is going on and are happy I'm trying so hard to keep the family together. They know I try hard. They know no matter what happens they will be cared for. They have seen their friend parents get divorced... so they know it can happen.

Guess what.... lately my wife has really enjoyed my company in the bedroom... she looks forward to the time her and I spend together now there. I even give her a massage to sleep and such its all good... she is coming around. I'm just course correcting our life together and teaching my kids about life at the same time. Its better for them to know.


----------



## LimboGirl

I think you are trying really hard. Sometimes we try so hard we don't see what we need to do. I'm not sure that the boys were getting in the way of your time with your wife. Sounds more like she may not be meeting their needs either. I know you are the one that is in the situation so you would know more if she meets their needs or not. Also when there are marriage problems, it always has an effect on kids. It may not be drastic but they can tell.

In an earlier post you said there was no anger in your marriage, I think this is one aspect you need to take up with an IC. All anger is not bad. Not having sex for two years must make you somewhat angry. You are human. Suppressing anger is not good either. Maybe you don't, but you do need to go to IC. You deserve to give yourself some help. If there is no possible way of affording it that is one thing, but T2 I'm telling you it will help you. Please go. It will help you and your sons. Truthfully when we are in an unhealthy relationship we sometimes don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

I'm not trying to be an a**hole, but I've asked over and over and generally you've excused her behaviour, but as the old saying goes "you have to walk before you can run", so I will ask again...

"Has your wife shown you any affection at all in terms of a hug, a kiss a caress?" The answer I am pretty sure is no (or you would have let us know).

I am particularly troubled at your state of mind when you said:

*I did a little experiment a while back for an entire day I looked at all other women throughout the day, I asked myself is there "anyone" that if I was divorced I'd want to walk up to and start a conversation to meet them as a future sexual partner.... I could find no one. My wife is better than any random woman for me...*

Everything is all about her being on a pedestal and just the fact she does not belittle you, you consider it a happy home now.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> I think you are trying really hard. Sometimes we try so hard we don't see what we need to do. I'm not sure that the boys were getting in the way of your time with your wife. Sounds more like she may not be meeting their needs either. I know you are the one that is in the situation so you would know more if she meets their needs or not. Also when there are marriage problems, it always has an effect on kids. It may not be drastic but they can tell.
> 
> In an earlier post you said there was no anger in your marriage, I think this is one aspect you need to take up with an IC. All anger is not bad. Not having sex for two years must make you somewhat angry. You are human. Suppressing anger is not good either. Maybe you don't, but you do need to go to IC. You deserve to give yourself some help. If there is no possible way of affording it that is one thing, but T2 I'm telling you it will help you. Please go. It will help you and your sons. Truthfully when we are in an unhealthy relationship we sometimes don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.


Thanks limboGirl,

Point well taken. it is not that i haven't had sex in two years we did actually manage 7 times over that period (5 in 2010 and 2 in 2011). She wasn't that into it however and I had stress induced ED to go along with it (I check out fine at Dr). Not a great period in my life from a sex standpoint.

The boys were making it really hard to have any alone time with my wife...when she is in bed by 7:30pm and asleep by 8:30pm (since she gets up at 4am) and the youngest bedtime is 8:30 or later on weekends. Him in bed with her when I'm home is a barrier. I only have until at best 9:00pm to put any moves on my wife. I'm not going to wake her up for sex. Yet.

I do stand up to her if my wife upsets me now. So she has stopped upsetting me and learned I now push back on her over everything. She is slowly learning my limits and through the consistency is earning a respect for me she didn't have before. She is always asking for my opinion on things. Also my approval for things. That was all from finally pointing out when she makes me upset... not anger just communication. This includes my statement several times to her "I am not acceptable to a sexless marriage" so she has in front of her two possible paths. Its up to her to choose. She WILL choose one soon.

I do think I could benefit from IC I will likely go....especially if this drags out another month or two.... I do believe I have solved my sexless marriage still. Its just a matter of time everyday we inch closer to a solution that will carry us both into our future together. We do have a "healthy" relationship outside the bedroom. My main concern is creating a home environment for my sons they need to see mom and dad exhibiting loving behaviors... they need good parental role models. Sex affects the entire family and I've hammered that point into my wife's head finally.

Our MAIN issue is my wife and i never really communicated about important aspects of our relationship...that is what caused our issue. Her and I will communicate from here until death do us part about EVERYTHING. Yes it is more likely we will have an angry outburst now...neither of us hold much in anymore.

Thank You.


----------



## sinnister

I haven't read the whole thread but I'll give it to you straight. Not likely to love you if she hasn't for the past two years.

I would be looking to move on. Staying with her at this point doesn't show integrity, it's masochism.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

sinnister said:


> I haven't read the whole thread but I'll give it to you straight. Not likely to love you if she hasn't for the past two years.
> 
> I would be looking to move on. Staying with her at this point doesn't show integrity, it's masochism.


Thanks,

I do know she loves just in her day to day actions with me. It's just for her she seems to need the "in-love" feeling to have sex with me... that's what her and I are working on. We will solve this one day sooner rather than later.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Trying2Figureitout - I keep looking at your thread hoping that you get lucky. It seems like you are working on your marriage by yourself.

I am sure sometime, you will get lucky, but I am positive that it won't be a sustained change. It will happen once, and then not again for a number of months.

I think you are going to have to show your wife that you won't live in a sexless marriage. And THE ONLY WAY SHE WILL BELIEVE YOU is if you actually leave her. No other way, as she has been conditioned to know that you will live with no sex.


----------



## eagleclaw

Wow man. You have set a boundry, she has blown threw it, over and over and over. She keeps dangling the carrot to keep you around, and you keep chasing it even though she will never let you catch it.

She has no fear of consequence, and no respect because you don't incite either.

I'm just being honest, direct, and keeping it real. I would seriously suspect an affair, but even if there is not - you need to make strong plays and write your own destiny. Quit giving her extensions and excuses.

Bottom line, this women is your wife and you have been treating her well. Continue to treat her well. Tell her you want her tonight, be suggestive and flirty. Tonight make a strong play for her. Initiate strong, and go for it. If she shoots you donw for some silly reason then say no problem, "I can wait until tomorrow night". Then try again. If you get 3 rejections in a row without an REAL reason that prohibits sex. Immediately disengage, set the emotional temp in the house to sub zero - and have separation papers drawn up.

Enough is enough. Show her you mean it and get on with it. This is no way to live... well unless your her in which case you get the best of both worlds.


----------



## I'm me

eagleclaw said:


> Wow man. You have set a boundry, she has blown threw it, over and over and over. She keeps dangling the carrot to keep you around, and you keep chasing it even though she will never let you catch it.
> 
> She has no fear of consequence, and no respect because you don't incite either.
> 
> I'm just being honest, direct, and keeping it real. I would seriously suspect an affair, but even if there is not - you need to make strong plays and write your own destiny. Quit giving her extensions and excuses.
> 
> Bottom line, this women is your wife and you have been treating her well. Continue to treat her well. Tell her you want her tonight, be suggestive and flirty. Tonight make a strong play for her. Initiate strong, and go for it. If she shoots you donw for some silly reason then say no problem, "I can wait until tomorrow night". Then try again. If you get 3 rejections in a row without an REAL reason that prohibits sex. Immediately disengage, set the emotional temp in the house to sub zero - and have separation papers drawn up.
> 
> Enough is enough. Show her you mean it and get on with it. This is no way to live... well unless your her in which case you get the best of both worlds.


:iagree: I am pulling for you T2 but like eagleclaw and SSIA have said, unless hse really wants to there is no real penalty if she doesn'tt I would love for you to be right but really, if you were to gauge her right now from a month ago, is she any warmer to you. What makes you so hopeful? Being optimistic is all well and good but you need to be realistic as well. I think you need to make the moves on her like eagleclaw said. I am against divorce but what she is doing is really torturous. And like SSIA points out, it's not guaranteed nor likely that a habit will be formed. Unless you do something drastic that gets her attention (like separation/divorce papers) you're going to be dealing with much of the same for some time. You want this to be resolved quickly. I would love that to be true for you. You deserve it. It just doesn't appear likely. Something has got to give.

Go put the moves on your woman. We're still pulling for you.


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## Havesomethingtosay

SadSamIAm said:


> Trying2Figureitout - I keep looking at your thread hoping that you get lucky. It seems like you are working on your marriage by yourself.
> 
> I am sure sometime, you will get lucky, but I am positive that it won't be a sustained change. It will happen once, and then not again for a number of months.
> 
> I think you are going to have to show your wife that you won't live in a sexless marriage. And THE ONLY WAY SHE WILL BELIEVE YOU is if you actually leave her. No other way, as she has been conditioned to know that you will live with no sex.


I agree that is the best case scenario..... They are off at an Inn alone this weekend. If he doesn't have "rock you world" sex, he will have another excuse Monday. 

He claims she loves him, and he hasn't had a kiss, hug, sign of affection or intimacy in months..... Frankly I think he is delusional, as he has been so beat the last 3-5 months it is verging on the ridiculous.

If she is not having an affair, she may just want an O to tide her over another 5 months. 

They haven't even once discussed his Letters/Demands to her, and he thinks it is perfectly normal.

The good news is she is not screaming at him as of late (or he is not saying anything).


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## eagleclaw

My wife and I have a complicated relationship. We fight way to often and way to meanly at times. She is a real fire cracker and intense. However, when things are REALLY bad, we might not have sex for 4 or on the outside 6 weeks. VERY unusual. All affection and/or touching has never gone beyone a week or two.

This two year crack, "isn't a rough patch", or a "phase", it's your current relationship. Either force change or leave a dysfunctional non viable relationship. Two weeks is a rough patch or a phase, two years is what you have. 

Turn it around. If you were having sex twice a week for 1 week would you say it is turn around. No, it's a freak thing. After 3 months of it you would say yes things are good, and stable now. Well the same is true of bad beheviour. 3 Months is a good enough yard stick to know where your at. 6 months if your not willing to accept it initially. At a year your lying to yourself. At two years your an ostrich with your head in the sand.


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## Jellybeans

This thread is still happening? Someone bring me up to speed.


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## Trying2figureitout

All well and good guys (and girls) I hear all of you...

This is my life and I'll do what I think is right. I know how my wife from the outside seems to you all. Just remember I live with her and can judge actions and attitude better than any of you can.

My wife and I will solve this its just a matter of time. Thanks for the kind thoughts all I do appreciate the support. BTW my wife has never yelled at me.

I know most of you don't believe it but I feel we are very close to a normal sexual marriage soon. I think part of the delay is she doesn't want to disappoint me when we start again... she is trying to set her mind right so that we can have a normal sexual relationship without months between.. I can wait for that to happen. It will soon. I want her to want to have sex with me... not forced. I've set the seeds to make that happen now I'm just waiting for the tree to grow.


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## Havesomethingtosay

Trying2figureitout said:


> *All well and good guys (and girls) I hear all of you...​*
> This is my life and I'll do what I think is right. I know how my wife from the outside seems to you all. Just remember I live with her and can judge actions and attitude better than any of you can.
> 
> My wife and I will solve this its just a matter of time. Thanks for the kind thoughts all I do appreciate the support. BTW my wife has never yelled at me.
> 
> I know most of you don't believe it but I feel we are very close to a normal sexual marriage soon. I think part of the delay is she doesn't want to disappoint me when we start again... she is trying to set her mind right so that we can have a normal sexual relationship without months between.. I can wait for that to happen. It will soon. I want her to want to have sex with me... not forced. I've set the seeds to make that happen now I'm just waiting for the tree to grow.


No you don't. Yes we don't know, you, your wife, what she's thinking and whether you are honest with us. 

It hasn't stopped many of us from hanging on your every post and comment on you odyssey. 

I bet vegas could post odds on this......


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## Yardman

Good luck T2!

At one time you were talking about doing the 180. Are you still doing it? Your timetable has moved a few times in the past, what is it now?


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## Trying2figureitout

Yardman said:


> Good luck T2!
> 
> At one time you were talking about doing the 180. Are you still doing it? Your timetable has moved a few times in the past, what is it now?


I've been convinced by posters (online friends) I trust...the 180 is wrong for my situation.

So there is no current timetable... what my wife has to decide is if she wants to stay married to me... her choice. I made it clear that sexless was not an option so I'm awaiting her decision through her actions. Everyday I inch closer to an ultimate solution. Thanks for the good luck thoughts..I need it. I'm just working on me I'm done trying to fix her. Thats her job now.


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## Yardman

Your Welcome,
What do you mean by ultimate solution? Moving on, divorce?

You've probably already checked into this, anything wrong with her medically?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Yardman said:


> Your Welcome,
> What do you mean by ultimate solution? Moving on, divorce?
> 
> You've probably already checked into this, anything wrong with her medically?


The ultimate solution is not being in a sexless marriage ever again. I've been pretty clear that I won't accept that outcome so she has a choice between a sexual marriage with me OR divorce. Her choice. No in-between.

So that is what I mean by an ultimate solution... that has been the plan all along to move us one way or another... I can not fathom much longer sexless and still married to her. I also recommended counseling and that she research on her own how love manifests itself in a long-term marriage and Men's needs. So it's in her court what to do... she started it so in reality only she can end it. I'm done it's all her decision. She knows her words now fall on deaf ears and that only actions count.

As for medically, I once again advised her before divorce that she get fully checked out for hormones, hot flashes, peri-menopause and the like. Its up to her to FIX her.... not me so thats the last advice I'll give her. I've moved on mentally to worry only about myself. I have stopped playing any games and my expectation is a sexual marriage so that's the way I'll act. At some point she will make a decision. So far it seems she is redecorating our nest.... so that may be her mentally preparing for an extension of our lon-term relationship.

I believe that point in time of our ultimate path will be sooner rather than later.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## that_girl

Why is it her choice? She won't make a choice so this will be your life. If you're cool with it, then ok.


----------



## MEM2020

There are two radically different approaches to your spouse:
1. Exerting the bare minimum effort you can put into the marriage without causing a divorce. 
2. Consistently bringing your A game to the marriage to ensure your partner knows they are your highest priority.

How do you intend to reverse 20 years of you being (2) and her being some flavor of (1)?




Trying2figureitout said:


> The ultimate solution is not being in a sexless marriage ever again. I've been pretty clear that I won't accept that outcome so she has a choice between a sexual marriage with me OR divorce. Her choice.
> 
> So that is what I mean by an ultimate solution... that has been the plan all along to move us one way or another... I can not fathom much longer sexless and still married to her. I also recommended counseling and that she research on her own how love manifests itself in a long-term marriage and Men's needs. So it's in her court what to do... she started it so in reality only she can end it. I'm done it's all her decision. She knows her words now fall on deaf ears and that only actions count.
> 
> As for medically, I once again advised her before divorce that she get fully checked out for hormones, hot flashes, peri-menopause and the like. Its up to her to FIX her.... not me so thats the last advice I'll give her. I've moved on mentally to worry only about myself. I have stopped playing any games and my expectation is a sexual marriage so that's the way I'll act. At some point she will make a decision.
> 
> I believe that point in time will be sooner rather than later.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

that_girl said:


> Why is it her choice? She won't make a choice so this will be your life. If you're cool with it, then ok.


It's her choice because I made it her choice. Believe me she will choose one or the other. Or don't... I know she will.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> There are two radically different approaches to your spouse:
> 1. Exerting the bare minimum effort you can put into the marriage without causing a divorce.
> 2. Consistently bringing your A game to the marriage to ensure your partner knows they are your highest priority.
> 
> How do you intend to reverse 20 years of you being (2) and her being some flavor of (1)?


Actually 1. was a choice she has if she does neither of the choices I gave her.... I covered all my bases already.

I'm set the seeds just waiting for the tree to bloom.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Atta boy T2FIO, you're back..... Sure of the results without seeing any progress at all from her...... Again, have you had a hug, kiss, genuine show of affection in the last 5 months???? Has she talked to you earnestly and honestly about the letter and demands you have set out?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Atta boy T2FIO, you're back..... Sure of the results without seeing any progress at all from her...... Again, have you had a hug, kiss, genuine show of affection in the last 5 months???? Has she talked to you earnestly and honestly about the letter and demands you have set out?


Havesomethingtosay, 

I have had hugs not so much her hugging me but her returning my hug etc. We have never kissed much outside of sex so no on kissing. As far as affection... yes she has exhibited signs of affection not physically but in other ways. If she were not trying or checking out of the marriage a lot of the behaviors i see would likely be different. It's the little things that I have mentioned before now she does... if that makes sense. I look for even the smallest hints of love and I see them everywhere from her. She just has some emotional trauma that she is still processing before she will want sex with me. That's fine she has time.

Remember this is a sexless marriage... MOST never recover. Mine will.

She has not directly approached me about any of my letters except when I called her out on her behavior and that is what started this thread. She provided clarity.... so I decided to send her a series of e-mails which she has read. they pretty much lay out our path going forward. 

She is the type that doesn't like talking about sex. She is the type that when she is ready she will act. I have seen nothing from her to change my opinion that she really wants to fall in-love with me again and is trying a little bit more everyday. We will get there.

I know a lot of you think I'm disillusioned I would think the same honestly. I'm giving my wife some more time to respond she has a lot to consider. Thanks again for all the advice. If you all saw us together at a party or out we would seem perfectly normal... all of our friends believe we have a perfect marriage! That's whats scary... you never know. For us it's really just a sex thing.

I'm happy, she's happy that in itself will lend itself to sex one day.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I agree that it may lead to sex one day. It will be one day. Then a number of months of you waiting for the next 'one day'!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

SadSamIAm said:


> I agree that it may lead to sex one day. It will be one day. Then a number of months of you waiting for the next 'one day'!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately that is probably the best case scenario. Trust me T2FIO has provided some of the best entertainment on TAM with his threads (too bad he deleted the more delusional ones that included his self-aggrandizing, plans, notes, letters & emails).

I think most people who have followed him feel a mix of pity, sadness, incredulity and dislike for him, and certainly if they believe him and what he wrote think his wife is a cold, unfeeling person in need of counseling (as does he).

But T2FIO certainly is without a doubt highly fun to follow.


----------



## uphillbattle

Trying2figureitout said:


> The ultimate solution is not being in a sexless marriage ever again. I've been pretty clear that I won't accept that outcome so she has a choice between a sexual marriage with me OR divorce. Her choice. No in-between.
> 
> So that is what I mean by an ultimate solution... that has been the plan all along to move us one way or another... I can not fathom much longer sexless and still married to her. I also recommended counseling and that she research on her own how love manifests itself in a long-term marriage and Men's needs. So it's in her court what to do... she started it so in reality only she can end it. I'm done it's all her decision. She knows her words now fall on deaf ears and that only actions count.
> 
> As for medically, I once again advised her before divorce that she get fully checked out for hormones, hot flashes, peri-menopause and the like. Its up to her to FIX her.... not me so thats the last advice I'll give her. I've moved on mentally to worry only about myself. I have stopped playing any games and my expectation is a sexual marriage so that's the way I'll act. At some point she will make a decision. So far it seems she is redecorating our nest.... so that may be her mentally preparing for an extension of our lon-term relationship.
> 
> I believe that point in time of our ultimate path will be sooner rather than later.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


You say you hear the people here but I think you hear them about as well as Billy hears Jimi. 
I don't even think you hear your wife. She has told you flat out that it's not a lack of sex drive just a lack of drive for YOU. I am pretty sure that seeing a doctor would be usless for that issue.
At some point one of two things is going to happen. The first being, you will wake up and realize this just isn't going to happen and move on. The second is, you are going to go insane thinking it's just around the corner while she just continusly blocks you. Sadly I am of the belief that it will be the second one.
Did you ever stop to think she is nesting in the anticipation of you moving out and the person she WANTS to be ****ing to move in?
Sorry man, I just hope you wake up before you have fianally lost your last marble.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

uphillbattle said:


> You say you hear the people here but I think you hear them about as well as Billy hears Jimi.
> I don't even think you hear your wife. She has told you flat out that it's not a lack of sex drive just a lack of drive for YOU. I am pretty sure that seeing a doctor would be usless for that issue.
> At some point one of two things is going to happen. The first being, you will wake up and realize this just isn't going to happen and move on. The second is, you are going to go insane thinking it's just around the corner while she just continusly blocks you. Sadly I am of the belief that it will be the second one.
> Did you ever stop to think she is nesting in the anticipation of you moving out and the person she WANTS to be ****ing to move in?
> Sorry man, I just hope you wake up before you have fianally lost your last marble.



All of you provide entertainment for me also. You left out the most likely option at this point....

That my wife and I end up in a better more sexual marriage a little after two years from her disconnect. This based in part due to the outstanding efforts of her husband she doesn't want to leave for another woman. She does this because she fell back in love with him and wants her family to remain intact. She finally realizes what she has and how she treated him.

Ockham's razor, is a principle that generally recommends from among competing hypotheses selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions.

There is no new man.
I am not going crazy.
I'm not acceptable to sexlessness


----------



## uphillbattle

Trying2figureitout said:


> All of you provide entertainment for me also. You left out the most likely option at this point....
> 
> That my wife and I end up in a better more sexual marriage a little after two years from her disconnect. This based in part due to the outstanding efforts of her husband she doesn't want to leave for another woman. She does this because she fell back in love with him and wants her family to remain intact. She finally realizes what she has.
> 
> Ockham's razor, is a principle that generally recommends from among competing hypotheses selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions.
> 
> There is no new man.
> I am not going crazy.
> I'm not acceptable to sexlessness


Actually boss, Ockham's razor is more along the lines of simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. If we are wishing to go with someone who came up with this principal in the 1300s to apply to economic situations at the time then we can run with it. 
The simpler explanation here would be that your wife is getting filled by someone at the gym. I dont believe this to be the case but seeing as we are wishing to go with a principal that if used in correct form would assume that the Greeks where right in their mythology at the time as or maybe the Egyptians and anybody else who makes up gods, and just chose the simplest religon and it is correct. 
I don't wish you to be wrong but with the infomation you have given on these boards suggests you will flame out once agian.


----------



## eagleclaw

Wow, this is painful to watch.

Just to counter a few of your comments:
_I made it clear that sexless was not an option so I'm awaiting her decision through her actions_ - actually you have made it VERY clear that sexless is a viable option, for over 2 yrs. And AGAIN you are waiting on her.... still...... like a puppy who would like a treat..... She holds all the power.

_I've been pretty clear that I won't accept that outcome so she has a choice between a sexual marriage with me OR divorce. Her choice. No in-between._ - much like her your all words with no action. You set a date, she blows threw it, over and over. 

Seriously, I don't see how anyone can be this disillusioned, without being a troll. If she wanted to frak you she would have already. At least for herself. Even a LOW desire spouse wants sex more than 1 every 2 years.

You continue on your wordy path of inaction over and over and over and yet expect... no insist that each time is somehow different and things are improving. At this rate you might actually get her to initiate a hug withing 20 years. I've been following your story from the beginning but you refuse to help yourself or emply any of the advice that has been given to you... cuz you know your wife, and what works, and things have improved so much. Any new subscriber can read just the last 3 pages of this thread and know the whole story, cuz NOTHING has changed........
But maybe next saturday....... I'm sure that's the day...........


----------



## Trying2figureitout

eagleclaw said:


> Wow, this is painful to watch.
> 
> Just to counter a few of your comments:
> _I made it clear that sexless was not an option so I'm awaiting her decision through her actions_ - actually you have made it VERY clear that sexless is a viable option, for over 2 yrs. And AGAIN you are waiting on her.... still...... like a puppy who would like a treat..... She holds all the power.
> 
> _I've been pretty clear that I won't accept that outcome so she has a choice between a sexual marriage with me OR divorce. Her choice. No in-between._ - much like her your all words with no action. You set a date, she blows threw it, over and over.
> 
> Seriously, I don't see how anyone can be this disillusioned, without being a troll. If she wanted to frak you she would have already. At least for herself. Even a LOW desire spouse wants sex more than 1 every 2 years.
> 
> You continue on your wordy path of inaction over and over and over and yet expect... no insist that each time is somehow different and things are improving. At this rate you might actually get her to initiate a hug withing 20 years. I've been following your story from the beginning but you refuse to help yourself or emply any of the advice that has been given to you... cuz you know your wife, and what works, and things have improved so much. Any new subscriber can read just the last 3 pages of this thread and know the whole story, cuz NOTHING has changed........
> But maybe next saturday....... I'm sure that's the day...........


Lets get the facts straight my wife and I have had sex 7 times in the two years after her disconnect.... last time was July. By sexless I mean clinically sexless not totally sexless. 

Saturday is a high probability but at this point I don't expect it knowing her.

I'm pretty sure shes getting a bit horny by now too. It's been since Jul 17th. So soon is my best guess.


----------



## eagleclaw

Just take your wife man, just do it. Deploy the 3 strike rule. This needs not be this complicated. She either wants to frak you or she doesn't. 3 Attempts will tell you this.


----------



## uphillbattle

"....I need time to fall in love with you again. That is my problem... (not a libido issue take the items back)"

The problem has nothing to do with wanting to have sex. She has made this very clear. She just doesn't want sex with HIM.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

uphillbattle said:


> "....I need time to fall in love with you again. That is my problem... (not a libido issue take the items back)"
> 
> The problem has nothing to do with wanting to have sex. She has made this very clear. She just doesn't want sex with HIM.


..at that moment

Not a question of IF just WHEN. I'm happy it's not libido I can deal with her not feeling butterflies. That changes my whole approach.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

And Saturday, while away at an Inn is now off the table.

T2FIO, I am talking as the part of me that feels for you (as opposed to the other part of me that thinks you're a deranged, egotistical, laughable, pathetic human).

Please get some professional counseling. You deserve better.


----------



## Zzyzx

Hey T2FIO, It's really painful reading your threads, but I can't help watching this train wreck. You really have your head in the sand. She does not want sex with YOU, her trying to fall in love with YOU again doesn't seem to be happening. When will YOU get it?

I like eagleclaw's suggestion: initiate 3 times over the next week without asking her for it and if you get rejected every time, start pulling out the divorce paperwork. You think she's been put on the spot, I have to tell you no, it's just words coming out of her mouth, she doesn't feel like it's critical yet and won't feel it's critical until you take action on the D front.

The short version: she's calling your bluff!!! Why do you persist in trying the same thing over again and expecting different results?


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

Zzyzx said:


> Hey T2FIO, It's really painful reading your threads, but I can't help watching this train wreck. You really have your head in the sand. She does not want sex with YOU, her trying to fall in love with YOU again doesn't seem to be happening. When will YOU get it?
> 
> I like eagleclaw's suggestion: initiate 3 times over the next week without asking her for it and if you get rejected every time, start pulling out the divorce paperwork. You think she's been put on the spot, I have to tell you no, it's just words coming out of her mouth, she doesn't feel like it's critical yet and won't feel it's critical until you take action on the D front.
> 
> The short version: she's calling your bluff!!! Why do you persist in trying the same thing over again and expecting different results?


I would find it insulting if I was T2FIO. I've read his attempts to initiate like a subservient cuckold. Either do it or not. Don't start with that foot massage crap aor trying to feel her up and her telling you "NO". And don't accept a "one off", which if it does happen, will be just that.


----------



## LimboGirl

T2,

Have you decided to get counselling?


----------



## LimboGirl

Much like you my marriage became obsessive. I would have the same thought processes going on in my head over and over again. I think we can become stuck in the pain. The counselling would help you regardless of the outcome of your marriage. It would help your family also. Why do you think you don't try counselling?


----------



## LimboGirl

Regardless of the problem or who is at fault or how supportive you are, having the obsessive thoughts are not healthy. Counselling would give you needed ideas and some relief to the exhaustive nature that obsessing causes.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl said:


> T2,
> 
> Have you decided to get counselling?


I'm waiting to see what happens over the next few weeks...I'm not adverse to counseling I just feel I have enough in play right now i want to see where this thing goes. Lets just say if I'm still sexless come February or if the sex is lame. I WILL seek a counselor of my own.

Thanks for the suggestion again.


----------



## LimboGirl

It can be scary to face T2, but there is a reason you are stuck here. I really hope you will give it a try.


----------



## LimboGirl

The relief I have found is too good to wait until February. Why not try and find one today? It might take awhile to get an appointment.


----------



## LimboGirl

T2,
One thing I haven't read from you is how the obsessing affects you. Let me explain how it affected me. It causes a slow and gradual dying on the inside. It robs me of happiness in all other areas of my life. Going to counselling helps you to see how to let go and quit investing too much energy into to something. We can invest so much energy into to something that it becomes a problem in and of itself.


----------



## LimboGirl

I think that it would be safe to say you would have a hard time letting go of an unhealthy relationship. I'm the same way. I am working on an unhealthy relationship of 25 years. I know I can't fix it without professional help. There are things about myself that need fixing. It is scary but I have to do it. I deserve to be happy. I hope my marriage can be saved, but I have to be brave enough if it can't.

You deserve to be happy too.


----------



## eagleclaw

_Lets just say if I'm still sexless come February or if the sex is lame. I WILL seek a counselor of my own._

That's another couple months.... really.... your ok with that. And if it's still a problem you will work at fixing YOU... WTF. If I went to no intimacy or affection for two months, I'd be talking seperation. That's two months for me, right now with no history. You have already had ALMOST no sex for two years and your still patient?

You know I'd love nothing more for this to work out for you. Unfortunately you seen incapable of helping yourself, and incapable of taking advice or direction that may help you. You simply refuse to help yourself.

And unfortunately, your unwillingness to have any backbone, self respect, and ability to man up on any level - is probably the precise reason why your wife is not attracted to you at all.

I'm thinking your unhelpable.

Man down.... Man down.... Medic!!

Eagleclaw out.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

LimboGirl and EagleClaw....

Here is how I see it.. First since I have been without sex for quite long periods of time I no longer obsess over it like I did a while back. I feel normal and the only reason I post here is I do have a couple posters that are PMing with me so when I check for those I check threads like this one as I know some of you are interested or concerned about me. Otherwise I'd probably be off the boards. I do get valuable "counseling" style advice from the posters who have so kindly offered me on-on-one help. They know what they are talking about and help me a lot.

I'm ok with where I'm at...to me it feels like I've crossed a "turning point" in my life. I've turned the focus away from trying to fix my marriage and instead refocused the efforts to fixing me and fathering my sons. Its up to my wife if she eventually finds that sexually attractive. I'm ok with or without her.

So for those who think I'm torn up over this... you are wrong. The rest of my life is great and I feel like the cup half-full person I have always been. I'm starting a social hiking club in January for six weekends so I'll meet lots of new people who like hiking also. I don't need much to be happy.

My wife and I have gone through a "rough patch" times will get better eventually I believe. Thanks for the support... I will consider counseling but I already have that in a way online. 

I have to choose the path that I feel is right... this feels right to me. 

Thanks


----------



## LimboGirl

T2,

Good luck and have fun hiking. I like hiking,also.


----------



## KanDo

Zzyzx said:


> Hey T2FIO, It's really painful reading your threads, but I can't help watching this train wreck. You really have your head in the sand. She does not want sex with YOU, her trying to fall in love with YOU again doesn't seem to be happening. When will YOU get it?
> 
> I like eagleclaw's suggestion: initiate 3 times over the next week without asking her for it and if you get rejected every time, start pulling out the divorce paperwork. You think she's been put on the spot, I have to tell you no, it's just words coming out of her mouth, she doesn't feel like it's critical yet and won't feel it's critical until you take action on the D front.
> 
> The short version: she's calling your bluff!!! Why do you persist in trying the same thing over again and expecting different results?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sorry; but you are certifiable!! 
WAKE UP AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE


----------



## eagleclaw

Trying2figureitout said:


> LimboGirl and EagleClaw....
> 
> Here is how I see it.. First since I have been without sex for quite long periods of time I no longer obsess over it like I did a while back. I feel normal and the only reason I post here is I do have a couple posters that are PMing with me so when I check for those I check threads like this one as I know some of you are interested or concerned about me. Otherwise I'd probably be off the boards. I do get valuable "counseling" style advice from the posters who have so kindly offered me on-on-one help. They know what they are talking about and help me a lot.
> 
> I'm ok with where I'm at...to me it feels like I've crossed a "turning point" in my life. I've turned the focus away from trying to fix my marriage and instead refocused the efforts to fixing me and fathering my sons. Its up to my wife if she eventually finds that sexually attractive. I'm ok with or without her.
> 
> So for those who think I'm torn up over this... you are wrong. The rest of my life is great and I feel like the cup half-full person I have always been. I'm starting a social hiking club in January for six weekends so I'll meet lots of new people who like hiking also. I don't need much to be happy.
> 
> My wife and I have gone through a "rough patch" times will get better eventually I believe. Thanks for the support... I will consider counseling but I already have that in a way online.
> 
> I have to choose the path that I feel is right... this feels right to me.
> 
> Thanks


Actually, this post gives me more hope than anything else I have seen. This is great, sound advice you are following. You SHOULD focus on your own fulfillment, and your kids. And you should live the life you want to live and enjoy it. That makes you happier, and shows that you exist and live with or without your wife. I only hope you fail to keep HOPING for some change on her part toonly be disapointed over and over. You can do what your doing, and give it a SHORT time for her to turn around. I wish you well.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

eagleclaw said:


> Actually, this post gives me more hope than anything else I have seen. This is great, sound advice you are following. You SHOULD focus on your own fulfillment, and your kids. And you should live the life you want to live and enjoy it. That makes you happier, and shows that you exist and live with or without your wife. I only hope you fail to keep HOPING for some change on her part toonly be disapointed over and over. You can do what your doing, and give it a SHORT time for her to turn around. I wish you well.


I just want myself and my wife to be happy together whatever form that takes. Right now I am sure she is struggling with this situation more than I am at this point. I do expect her in fairly short order to process whatever she needs to process and come back to me sexually. In a way I'm preparing myself for any eventuality if somehow she can't.


----------



## Dahlia10

I have no wisdom for you, so many people on this forum do. But something about your story makes me have empathy for your situation. It is clear you are a very good man. I hope she realizes that very soon. I truly hope your situation works out.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Dahlia10 said:


> I have no wisdom for you, so many people on this forum do. But something about your story makes me have empathy for your situation. It is clear you are a very good man. I hope she realizes that very soon. I truly hope your situation works out.


Thanks I'm just one of many in similar situations. I am a good man I have nothing to be ashamed of. My wife is lucky to have me as her husband.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay

This is why you are delusional.....

In your last few posts you state.....

*Right now I am sure she is struggling with this situation more than I am at this point. I do expect her in fairly short order to process whatever she needs to process and come back to me sexually.*

*I am a good man I have nothing to be ashamed of. My wife is lucky to have me as her husband.*

*So for those who think I'm torn up over this... you are wrong. The rest of my life is great and I feel like the cup half-full person I have always been. I'm starting a social hiking club in January for six weekends so I'll meet lots of new people who like hiking also. I don't need much to be happy.*

You continually contradict yourself and you have to face the fact that everything you do and write has been based on getting to the point that your wife will have sex with you, not like the last 20 years (15X's/yr), but on your schedule and what you want to do..... But you have not done the one thing necessary.... You haven't sat your wife down and told her face to face that this is 100% unacceptable and that you won't put up with it and she has to TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT.....

You have to come to grips with the ILYBNILWY statement and that those words she said still are true 2 years later, because she has not TALKED TO YOU AND SID OTHERWISE.

You've even already said that this weekend will be a no go.

I am really feeling bad for you, because you are spinning out of control and refuse to take the most important advise offered here......

GET PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING!!!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Havesomethingtosay said:


> This is why you are delusional.....
> 
> In your last few posts you state.....
> 
> *Right now I am sure she is struggling with this situation more than I am at this point. I do expect her in fairly short order to process whatever she needs to process and come back to me sexually.*
> 
> *I am a good man I have nothing to be ashamed of. My wife is lucky to have me as her husband.*
> 
> *So for those who think I'm torn up over this... you are wrong. The rest of my life is great and I feel like the cup half-full person I have always been. I'm starting a social hiking club in January for six weekends so I'll meet lots of new people who like hiking also. I don't need much to be happy.*
> 
> You continually contradict yourself and you have to face the fact that everything you do and write has been based on getting to the point that your wife will have sex with you, not like the last 20 years (15X's/yr), but on your schedule and what you want to do..... But you have not done the one thing necessary.... You haven't sat your wife down and told her face to face that this is 100% unacceptable and that you won't put up with it and she has to TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT.....
> 
> You have to come to grips with the ILYBNILWY statement and that those words she said still are true 2 years later, because she has not TALKED TO YOU AND SID OTHERWISE.
> 
> You've even already said that this weekend will be a no go.
> 
> I am really feeling bad for you, because you are spinning out of control and refuse to take the most important advise offered here......
> 
> GET PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING!!!!!


Thanks for the input.... I never said this weekend was a no-go I still feel a high probability we have sex.

As for the rest you are absolutely right I have not sat her down and forced her to talk about it stating it as being unacceptable... perhaps I should have. Whatever I'm ok with where I'm at right now hindsight is 20/20. I still believe that my wife and I are on a path that will lead us to a sexual marriage soon. I really don't feel like I'm spinning out of control.

Have a nice evening.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
You continue to erode her respect for you by sending her texts/emails that sound like ultimatums - and then you fold. You roar like a lion but walk like a lamb. Very toxic to any relationship. You have been trumpeting your success on this board for quite some time now. And yet your dynamic at home is one of full fledged sexual aversion. Aversion is completely different than a low drive. You talk about how she is more affectionate even though you acknowledge she hasn't touched you. 

As for the suggestions regarding therapy, I am conflicted. MC would be a total waste of time. Your W and you understand each other perfectly. This is not a communication problem, it is a massively skewed power dynamic that has existed for most of your relationship. A MC cannot give you confidence or resolve. 






Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks for the input.... I never said this weekend was a no-go I still feel a high probability we have sex.
> 
> As for the rest you are absolutely right I have not sat her down and forced her to talk about it stating it as being unacceptable... perhaps I should have. Whatever I'm ok with where I'm at right now hindsight is 20/20. I still believe that my wife and I are on a path that will lead us to a sexual marriage soon. I really don't feel like I'm spinning out of control.
> 
> Have a nice evening.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You continue to erode her respect for you by sending her texts/emails that sound like ultimatums - and then you fold. You roar like a lion but walk like a lamb. Very toxic to any relationship. You have been trumpeting your success on this board for quite some time now. And yet your dynamic at home is one of full fledged sexual aversion. Aversion is completely different than a low drive. You talk about how she is more affectionate even though you acknowledge she hasn't touched you.
> 
> As for the suggestions regarding therapy, I am conflicted. MC would be a total waste of time. Your W and you understand each other perfectly. This is not a communication problem, it is a massively skewed power dynamic that has existed for most of your relationship. A MC cannot give you confidence or resolve.


Thanks Mem,

I am done sending texts or e-mails, I did so recently to set he stage for this period of time where everything is on her to decide what she wants to do now. They were effective at defining our issue and putting her in a state of mind to solve this. There are no ultimatums apart from the reality that sexlessness is not an acceptable outcome for our marriage, she has a choice to solve this and move us to a sexual marriage or to divorce me. I'm ok with either.... my wife loves and respects me enough to choose one of those paths. She knows that I'm at my limit. 

I agree in a way that the 'power dynamic' was skewed prior. I was the typical nice guy who always wanted to please my wife. She has always had a stronger personality than myself so for years I just tried to make her happy. Like I say i don't need much to be happy, I see all sorts of great stuff in everyday life, I'm not a guy who needs a man cave or anything like that. I just like my family and being laid back. My wife by contrast is go,go,go.

So I understood her tiredness and didn't want to burden her with sex requests constantly so we settled on monthly about mostly her drive and at the edge of my acceptable limit. 

I believe the reason I am still sexless is that I have decided to completely switch hat dynamic. I am much more alpha and i expect a normal sex life with my wife. She knows and sees this so it's her choice whether she wants the job. 

Thanks


----------



## Star

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks I'm just one of many in similar situations. I am a good man I have nothing to be ashamed of. My wife is lucky to have me as her husband.




Wooo there!!! "My wife is lucky to have me as her husband"

Question, does she feel the same way? That she is lucky to have you? I have a feeling that it might be no.


----------



## MrK

Trying2figureitout said:


> She says what i do is great that's its all her. Like that helps.


"It's not you it's me"? You can't use "it's not you it's me"! I INVENTED "It's not you it's me!" - George Castanza.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Star said:


> Wooo there!!! "My wife is lucky to have me as her husband"
> 
> Question, does she feel the same way? That she is lucky to have you? I have a feeling that it might be no.


If it were NO she would be gone. She has already said that. She knows I'm a "good catch" a great help and a great father, her parents treat me like their son. I also have the skills she doesn't we compliment each other with our differing skill set. We make a good parenting team.

She is "lucky" because many other guys would have not put up with her sexlessness for this long. So she would be divorced... my wife does not want to be divorced. She wants to stay married to ME. She has NEVER said anything to the contrary.

The issue with my wife is she is one of these typical women who feel that they need to put all there efforts into heir job, their kids and themselves... that their husbands aren't a primary concern. She doesn't like being told she is behaving badly (Cant take criticism well). She is immature for her age, wanting to stay young yet shes 45 the girls at her work are much younger and all are pretty. She is very talented, high energy, wanting to please everyone mainly to look good socially in her circle of "friends" that she flames out at night for sex... she is exhausted. Last two days up at 3am to set sales at work.

The I'm trying to fall back in love with you... is a cover story to cover the true issue

She loves me just fine (Now)... what she doesn't want to admit is that her lifestyle makes it nearly impossible to have any energy left for sex at night and her busy lifestyle doesn't allow for sex during any other times. Typical rock and hard place scenario. Also our disjointed work schedules only allow three nights together per week. Knock out her period and I'm let with 9 opportunities a month... shes tired all 9 nights typically. Friday tired from getting up at 3 or 4 am, Saturday (best chance yet still tired), Sunday needs to go to bed early to get up at 3 or 4am.
So in reality I have 3 possible nights... the three Saturdays. See my issue? Why do you think I picked a Satuday for our inn stay? Most sex happens only on Saturdays.

That will change or she will end up single. She needs to re-asses the priorities in her life.
I'm helping her with that. Shes lucky I'm willing to wait for her to figure out a solution "On her own" without being pushed into it. Its her decision now.

She will decide to be sexual with me as that is the only acceptable reality left for her.

Guess what! Shes getting her hair done for our big date tomorrow at the inn (She had it done just three weeks ago so this is sooner than normal for her)

This is not the "typical" sexless marriage at all. Her and I have no issues the rest of our life is completely normal. She simply needs to save some energy for sex. That she needs to realize sex and satisfying me will make her happier... i don't think she gets that yet. If anyone need therapy bad its her not me although I could use some too evidently. Don'y worry for me... I've got this all under control. Soon I will have a sexual marriage with my beautiful long-term wife.

Stay tuned.


----------



## AFEH

Watched an old John Wayne film the other night. His wife had been in a withdrawn huff for a year or so and he’d got to the end of his tether. She knew it from his anger so she ran and he chased her all around cowboy town and when he caught her put her across his knee, spanked her and said now I’ll divorce you. Walked away got on his wagon and rode away. His wife shouted out for him, ran fast and couldn’t wait to catch up with him to get him back. Magical stuff :rofl:


----------



## AFEH

Trying2figureitout said:


> If it were NO she would be gone. She has already said that. She knows I'm a "good catch"
> 
> She is "lucky" because many other guys would have not put up with her sexlessness for this long. So she would be divorced... my wife does not want to be divorced. She wants to stay married to ME. She has NEVER said anything to the contrary.
> 
> The issue with my wife is she is one of these typical women who feel that they need to put all there efforts into heir job, their kids and themselves... that their husbands aren't a primary concern. She doesn't like being told she is behaving badly (Cant take criticism well). She is immature for her age, wanting to stay young yet shes 45 the girls at her work are much younger and all are pretty. She is very talented, high energy, wanting to please everyone mainly to look good socially in her circle of "friends" that she flames out at night for sex,
> 
> The I'm trying to fall back in love with you... is a cover story.
> She loves me just fine... what she doesn't want to admit is that her lifestyle makes it nearly impossible to have any energy left for sex.
> 
> That will change or she will end up single.


I reckon you're massively in denial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial


----------



## Star

Trying2figureitout said:


> If it were NO she would be gone. She has already said that. She knows I'm a "good catch" a great help and a great father, her parents treat me like their son. I also have the skills she doesn't we compliment each other with our differing skill set. We make a good parenting team.
> 
> She is "lucky" because many other guys would have not put up with her sexlessness for this long. So she would be divorced... my wife does not want to be divorced. She wants to stay married to ME. She has NEVER said anything to the contrary.
> 
> The issue with my wife is she is one of these typical women who feel that they need to put all there efforts into heir job, their kids and themselves... that their husbands aren't a primary concern. She doesn't like being told she is behaving badly (Cant take criticism well). She is immature for her age, wanting to stay young yet shes 45 the girls at her work are much younger and all are pretty. She is very talented, high energy, wanting to please everyone mainly to look good socially in her circle of "friends" that she flames out at night for sex... she is exhausted. Last two days up at 3am to set sales at work.
> 
> The I'm trying to fall back in love with you... is a cover story to cover the true issue
> 
> She loves me just fine... what she doesn't want to admit is that her lifestyle makes it nearly impossible to have any energy left for sex at night and her busy lifestyle doesn't allow for sex during any other times. Typical rock and hard place scenario.
> 
> That will change or she will end up single. She needs to re-asses the priorities in her life.
> I'm helping her with that. Shes lucky I'm willing to wait for her to figure out a solution "On her own" without being pushed into it. Its her decision now.
> 
> She will decide to be sexual with me as that is the only acceptable reality left for her.
> 
> Guess what! Shes getting her hair done for our big date tomorrow at the inn.
> 
> This is not the "typical" sexless marriage at all. Her and I have no issues the rest of our life is completely normal. She simply needs to save some energy for sex.


Define "good catch"


----------



## Star

Trying2figureitout said:


> She will decide to be sexual with me as that is the only acceptable reality left for her.
> 
> Guess what! Shes getting her hair done for our big date tomorrow at the inn.
> 
> This is not the "typical" sexless marriage at all. Her and I have no issues the rest of our life is completely normal. She simply needs to save some energy for sex. That she needs to realize sex and satisfying me will make her happier... i don't think she gets that yet. If anyone need therapy bad its her not me although I could use some too evidently. Don'y worry for me... I've got this all under control.


Oh I'm not worried for you (more her) but I'm sure you have it all under control, seems like you've got this all figured out 

Btw I would of thought that a man would want his wife to be sexual with him because she wanted to and not because it was the only acceptable reality for her.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Star said:


> Oh I'm not worried for you (more her) but I'm sure you have it all under control, seems like you've got this all figured out
> 
> Btw I would of thought that a man would want his wife to be sexual with him because she wanted to and not because it was the only acceptable reality for her.


Whatever... I'm not the one who decided to go sexless for multiple months at a stretch. Multiple times.

Where on Earth do the women get grief over this situation?

Its easy to pin it on the husband but in reality its the disconnected women who decided to keep a roledex of every single slight you ever did and then blast you for it AND live their life without saving energy to have sex at night with their spouse.


I cannot fathom "shutting off my emotions for my wife" without first talking to her about her behaviors.... do wives get a free pass for making their husbands sex life play things? Seems like thats a-ok in all your books as women. I'd have sex no matter how tired I was.

Give me a freaking break.. but again your a woman. I expect that sort of attitude.

I'm trying to save my family...that's all.

BTW.. She IS married and frequent sex with her husband is her only acceptable reality... quit trying to twist the truth. Other choice if she wants DIVORCE. I'm done with a sexless marriage.


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## Star

Trying2figureitout said:


> Whatever... I'm not the one who decided to go sexless for multiple months at a stretch.
> 
> Where on Earth do the women get grief over this situation?
> 
> Its easy to pin it on the husband but i reality its the disconnected women!
> 
> 
> I cannot fathom "shutting off my emotions for my wife" without first talking to her about her behaviors.... do wives get a free pass for making their husbands sex life play things?
> 
> Give me a freaking break.. but again your a woman. I expect that sort of attitude.


Women disconnect for a reason and judging by your attitute in your posts I would not surprised as to probably her reasons why.


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## Trying2figureitout

Star said:


> Women disconnect for a reason and judging by your attitute in your posts I would not surprised as to probably her reasons why.


She disconnected before I developed this outlook. Two years ago.

Women have issues. Guys don't do this crap.

Disconnected women destroy marriages.

You try going sexless over two years and see how your attitude changes. Oops make that 40 years since you have 20x less testosterone coursing through your veins.


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## Star

Trying2figureitout said:


> She disconnected before I developed this outlook. Two years ago.
> 
> Women have issues. Guys don't do this crap.
> 
> Disconnected women destroy marriages.
> 
> You try going sexless over two years and see how your attitude changes. Oops make that 40 years since you have 20x less testosterone coursing through your veins.


Oh please don't give me the "You try going sexless over two years and see how your attitude changes" speech, I've been there done that for close to 3 years, So believe it or not I know what it feels like, it makes no difference whether you are a man or a woman on the receiving end of no sex, the principle is the exact same.

The difference is I actually turned things around for the better, you have have yet to do that. I could offer you advice that may help you but you come across so arrogant and self assured I think why bother? I don't think you'd listen to what I'd have to say afterall as you have already kinda insulted me with your comments about being me "a woman and you expect that kind of attitude"

So good luck.


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## Trying2figureitout

Star said:


> Oh please don't give me the "You try going sexless over two years and see how your attitude changes" speech, I've been there done that for close to 3 years, So believe it or not I know what it feels like, it makes no difference whether you are a man or a woman on the receiving end of no sex, the principle is the exact same.
> 
> The difference is I actually turned things around for the better, you have have yet to do that. I could offer you advice that may help you but you come across so arrogant and self assured I think why bother? I don't think you'd listen to what I'd have to say afterall as you have already kinda insulted me with your comments about being me "a woman and you expect that kind of attitude"
> 
> So good luck.


Sorry. I just didn't like the attitude you gave me either. I'm tired being persecuted for trying my best to turn my marriage around. I'm glad yours worked out. Really I am.

I just feel women (wives) have no idea what its like being a man (husband) who wants sex. There is no way possible. Thanks for the good luck. I would appreciate any advice but understand if you felt offended. Anyhow thanks.


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## Trying2figureitout

Thanks all this thread seems to have gotten off the original question I had so I'm done. Good luck to all and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.. I'll be back later on a different thread to update you all after things change for my marriage. Talk to you all sometime in 2012.

T2


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## Laurae1967

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Absolutely right, he has no responsibility or need to answer anyone. I have followed his saga, and admit to being more then mildly curious as to the outcome.
> 
> If he is as decent a person, a great husband, provider, father as he claims to be (though I don't necessarily believe it), I want to see him happy. I however believe the only way to find happiness is to leave his wife and find a sexual woman who will give him all he has yearned for in his posts. His kids are in their teens, and I from what I've read think his wife has treated him deplorably for many many years (before the ILYBNILWY statement). He deserves to be happy IF he has been honest in his threads..... And it is a very big IF in my opinion.
> 
> But let me point out Saturday was yet another date he has trumpeted, where nothing happened.....
> 
> He f'ing can't even get a kiss, hug or a show of affection from her.....


Wow. You have a god complex or something. Since when are YOU the arbiter of who deserves happiness and who doesn't? 

I just wonder what YOUR issues are that you feel the need to revel in someone else's pain as you sit on the sidelines with your "popcorn". Pretty lame, if you ask me.


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## deejov

Trying2figureitout said:


> She disconnected before I developed this outlook. Two years ago.
> 
> Women have issues. Guys don't do this crap.
> 
> Disconnected women destroy marriages.
> 
> You try going sexless over two years and see how your attitude changes. Oops make that 40 years since you have 20x less testosterone coursing through your veins.


 
Uh, yes. Guys do this crap too. Women and men have issues.

I think most people are saying it's unacceptable. And trying to help you with "how" you could show it is unacceptable. 

And some of us believe finding out why it happened is just as important, which brings in the comments on how resentment gets in there in the first place. 

Good luck, T2.


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## Laurae1967

eagleclaw said:


> Just take your wife man, just do it. Deploy the 3 strike rule. This needs not be this complicated. She either wants to frak you or she doesn't. 3 Attempts will tell you this.


Women want to have sex with their husbands when they are feeling emotionally good about them. This overly-simplistic response is exactly why many men are not getting the sex they want from their wives. It's not about the attempts. Its' about the RELATIONSHIP. If the relationship is truly good, there will be sex. If not, no sex.


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## AFEH

Laurae1967 said:


> Women want to have sex with their husbands when they are feeling emotionally good about them. This overly-simplistic response is exactly why many men are not getting the sex they want from their wives. It's not about the attempts. Its' about the RELATIONSHIP. If the relationship is truly good, there will be sex. If not, no sex.


That’s totally and absolutely wrong and what’s led to his situation in the first place. That’s akin to the husband saying I’ll not pay the mortgage or buy any more food unless you give me sex. It’s seriously childish and immature behaviour. Just exactly how is a wife withholding sex because she’s not feeling emotionally ready for it going to make an already bad situation better? That’s like pouring petrol on a fire to put it out. It’s for the wife to be a big girl and get her emotional problems sorted with her husband and be rid of her resentment rather than just playing dead and doing nothing about it. Of course if she’s living with a jerk she should leave him.


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## Laurae1967

You misunderstand me. What I meant is that the mere act of approaching a wife (or husband) for sex 3 times does not solve the problem of WHY the couple is not having sex (usually). Sex is not transactional like banking. It's relational. If the relationship is not good, the sex won't be good by and large.

I think TTFIO's wife has cheated on him and I think he's in denial. I think his wife does not respect him because she has all the power in the relationship and he is not truly willing to assert himself. He is doing the exact opposite of what he should be doing to make his wife want him. He should be doing the 180 and figuring out if he really wants to be with a woman who shows him no love or affection. He's clearly not emotionally there yet, but I hope he will be eventually.

But to liken a sexual relationship to a transactional obligation like banking is way off the mark. BOTH partners play into the sexual dynamic. If my husband is treating me like ****, I'm not going to want to have sex with him.....not because I'm "witholding", but because I don't feel emotionally safe with him, which hinders any sexual desire I would have for him. 

So, I'm not putting the blame on men to fix all marital problems to get sex. I'm just saying that a lot of guys who complain about lack of sex are not figuring out that it has to do with the emotional health of the marriage. But the emotional health of the marriage is the responsibility of BOTH partners.


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## AFEH

Of course sex is transactional (you said so yourself just in a different way) and it’s very much like banking. If as your husband I’d deposited enough in your account you’d give me sex anytime I wanted. That’s how it worked in my marriage, I haven’t a clue about other marriages. Thing is with me to ensure my supply I’d give you twice as much as you actually need and because of that you’d never hold yourself back.


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## Laurae1967

I agree....you don't have a clue.


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## AFEH

You have your price and you know it. Do your H a favour and tell him what it is. At least that way he can decide if you are worth it or not.


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## Havesomethingtosay

Laurae1967, have you read T2FIO's threads that HE DELETED, that I as a male found offensive to all women, where he outlined his demands and expectations in letters, emails, texts?

I have said in a # of posts that if what he has written is true I feel truly very sorry for him, and find his wife a nasty, deplorable despicable woman. However in every thread he then shows another side, where he is a ****sure, egotistical, maniacal narcissist.

I have urged him to get professional help, which i stand by. However another past of me has enjoyed this train wreck (as long as no one is physically hurt)....


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## SadSamIAm

Trying2figureitout said:


> She is "lucky" because many other guys would have not put up with her sexlessness for this long. So she would be divorced... my wife does not want to be divorced.


I don't think this is correct. 

I think that most other guys wouldn't put up with a sexless marriage. She would know that they wouldn't put up with it. She would respect them for standing up for themselves. This would make them more attractive to her and she would want to have sex with them.


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## sisters359

In your first post, you said you quit drinking. What have you done to deal with the damage your drinking did? I haven't read most of the thread but this really stuck out to me (and if you have addressed it elsewhere, sorry).

Also, please be careful. Having sex with you when she really does not want to will lead to greater unhappiness, all around. What I don't understand is why you would prefer that she "accept" this situation and have sex without wanting to be with you? Why don't you divorce? 

I think you might have said that you want to see if having a more sexual relationship will lead her to feel more "in love" with you. If that's the case, then you've answered the question. I'm just not clear on it, I guess. 

Do keep in mind, however, that she has not held you hostage for 2 years--you chose to remain in the marriage. When you reach your limit, you will go (assuming things don't change). Good luck, either way.


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## Yardman

T2, how did Saturday at the Inn go for the two of you?


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## FourtyPlus

You mention you stopped drinking. My husband was an abusive alcoholic the first 7 years of our marriage with sex taking place almost immediately after the abuse each time. At some point, I shut myself down emotionally, sex wasn't good anymore after that point. I thought something was wrong with me physically. Maybe too much stress, getting older, whatever. It took me another 7 years to realize that I had shut him out and the only way to open that door again was to re-open that old mental file and close it out for good. I did tell my husband at some point that I needed to fall in love with him again.
While I had forgiven him for his behavior when he was a mean drunk, I hadn't done anything to put it behind me and close it out for good. 
Might be that your wife has bad memories of you BEFORE you quit drinking and she has closed a door on you that needs re-opened.


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## Havesomethingtosay

No response unfortunately probably means the same. 

T2FIO said he wouldn't post until there is an update......

Again not sure how to feel about him and all the threads and posts he's made.

Actually am worried as he has not posted since Friday. Not sure if that is a good thing.


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## I'm me

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks all this thread seems to have gotten off the original question I had so I'm done. Good luck to all and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.. I'll be back later on a different thread to update you all after things change for my marriage. Talk to you all sometime in 2012.
> 
> T2


From this post, I don't think he intends to post for a while.

Can I trumpet my horn that I'm going to have sex for the first time in over 6 months on Wednesday?


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## Thruhellandback

I don't want to scare you. I know you think that you've checked whether or not she's having an affair. But sounds just like I did whilst I was in the middle of my affair. 

I knew I wouldn't leave him for the OM but couldn't give up the high of the affair ....it was like a drug.

So i infrequently had sex with him....wrote things to him like I need time.....give me space.....thinking of you instead of ily....

She might be getting her needs somewhere else....bear in mind it might be an emotional affair.....that intimacy that's cerebral from a woman even... In my humble opinion, if you continue like this you will just fade away in her eyes and heart.

She needs to commit to concrete activities on specific dates with you. Plan a foot rub night for her or back rub night....candles...nibbly food....nice music....casual comfortable clothes. Nothing sexual until you see she might let it go there. 

Don't let this go on much longer. I know it sounds old school but you can't neglect that side of you. A man's sexuality takes a much bigger part of his psyche than it does for women. For you, having sex is showing affection because you're taking care of a very important part of you. Us women can't relate because as much as we do like it, it's not as vital a part of our being.

As I grow older...I"m 43 now. I really enjoy it much more. I want it more often. I love seeing the affect I have on him when I talk in detail about that I like for him to do to me. Try words. We respond well to romantic words that show us that it's all about us.

Lastly, how about a frank: Honey, where are we going we this? I need, want to have sex with you and feel loved by you. If that's not going to happen why are you still here? It's been X time and we are in limbo. THis is cruel. Life is too F"ing short to settle for this.


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## Havesomethingtosay

I am concerned that T2FIO has disappeared. While I was very skeptical of his posts, his deleting of threads and his at times incredibly arrogant, delusional musings, I too worried about him and how this would all end.

I hope he has found peace (the part of me who thought of him as a decent person).


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## sirdano

Wow I read through all that and he said he was not obssed with sex but everytime I seem to remember that he would get sex that weekend??? It also seem that everything he tried to do evoled around trying to get sex??

He should have domeIC and MC to help but I am not sure he would have listen to them either.

I have been without sex for three months now but this is ue to MC trying to get us to reconnect on a physical and emotion plane first before we push it to sex. I fine with that in order to fix what was broken


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## Barefootsugar

I've read many different views and opinions on this thread. I found it simply because my fiance is "finally" beginning to come out of a nutshell and search for answers on his own. Unfortunately he hasn't come out far enough to go to a site where I speak personally with a marriage counselor I met at a seminar and have read his books & go to him directly any time I have a question. Maybe one day he will open up enough.

Until both parties in any relationship learn what their top 5 emotional needs are and learn to meet them on a consistent basis; learn what busts the points out in their "love banks" for each other; and learn to correct their behavior, a marriage may stay in force until you die, but it will not make you feel in love with each other. (The "passion" will not be there!!!)

There is so much to learn and it isn't accomplished overnight. It takes time, trial and error (with learning from each situation), a lot of "brainstorming" ideas, and a lot of hard work.

Independent behavior, angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, selfish demands, dishonesty, and annoying habits only work to push you apart. The only thing that will help is if a couple who wants to make the best of their marriage learns to sit down and learn about each other (honestly, openly but with respect); start doing the things that meet each others emotional needs and stop doing the things that kill the feeling of fondness. Learn to work together like you would have to do if you were trying to make a business successful - it's hard, but if a business is worth having then it's worth the effort -- it's the same with marriage.

My fiance and I have been together for seven months and he has totally destroyed any feeling of passion between us through many of the negatives I listed above, but I do know that deep down inside he truly wants the relationship to work and the only reason I haven't dumped him is because I can see that. He has to learn, and I have to adjust as he does. Love is not only a feeling but is also all about actions...and I don't mean sacrifice on either part. Short term sacrifice may have to be made to make long term solutions possible, but the ultimate goal is the "long term solution" that both parties are enthusiastic about. Never get stuck on "short term solutions" or doing things where either party has to sacrifice; that only builds resentment. Believe me, I've lived through it!! Things didn't work!! 

It sounds like in the initial post I read on page 7, the wife has come to a point of sexual aversion...the husband being the one who drove her to it. That is generally how it happens from all of my studies and guidance. In fact I was drove to that point myself and I know for a fact that I do have a high libido. But when that situation comes about, I can't even imagine great sex anymore!

Something for the husband to consider is the fact that she was driven to that point, and she has to have time to heal and learn to trust him again. In fact, my counselor said for the husband to ask himself, "why should we have sex?" If it can't be as much for her benefit and pleasure as it is for his, then there's a LOT of work to do on the relationship/marriage itself!

Barefootsugar

btw: If you don't have at least 15 hours per week of undivided attention to give to each other, then don't expect any positives to come from your efforts.


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## Barefootsugar

Just read a few more notes from other posters and found out it is ok to post books. The books I suggest are "buyers, renters & freeloaders - Turning Revolving-Door Romance into Lasting Love"; His Needs, Her Needs - Building an Affair-Proof Marriage; Love Busters - Overcoming Habits That Destroy Romantic Love; and "Fall In Love Stay In Love" all Written by Willard F. Harley, Jr. This man was has dedicated his whole life to his wife/marriage & marriage counseling. They work together as a team and if you read them you will find out that through failed dating and then failed marriage 'counseling' (even though he didn't know what he was doing "right" as he learned to do it) he was diligent enough in his dedication to marriage and his career that he actually found out what it really took to make a marriage work -with passion- the same way his is working even now. And they have been together since before I was even born almost 46 yrs ago- and their romance is still alive to this day!!!


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## Barefootsugar

:iagree:


Trying2figureitout said:


> All well and good guys (and girls) I hear all of you...
> 
> This is my life and I'll do what I think is right. I know how my wife from the outside seems to you all. Just remember I live with her and can judge actions and attitude better than any of you can.
> 
> My wife and I will solve this its just a matter of time. Thanks for the kind thoughts all I do appreciate the support. BTW my wife has never yelled at me.
> 
> I know most of you don't believe it but I feel we are very close to a normal sexual marriage soon. I think part of the delay is she doesn't want to disappoint me when we start again... she is trying to set her mind right so that we can have a normal sexual relationship without months between.. I can wait for that to happen. It will soon. I want her to want to have sex with me... not forced. I've set the seeds to make that happen now I'm just waiting for the tree to grow.


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## Barefootsugar

:iagree:


Trying2figureitout said:


> All well and good guys (and girls) I hear all of you...
> 
> This is my life and I'll do what I think is right. I know how my wife from the outside seems to you all. Just remember I live with her and can judge actions and attitude better than any of you can.
> 
> My wife and I will solve this its just a matter of time. Thanks for the kind thoughts all I do appreciate the support. BTW my wife has never yelled at me.
> 
> I know most of you don't believe it but I feel we are very close to a normal sexual marriage soon. I think part of the delay is she doesn't want to disappoint me when we start again... she is trying to set her mind right so that we can have a normal sexual relationship without months between.. I can wait for that to happen. It will soon. I want her to want to have sex with me... not forced. I've set the seeds to make that happen now I'm just waiting for the tree to grow.


____________________________________________

I couldn't agree more. Don't really know this blog; today is my first day even though this is not my first response. Don't really know where my response will end up, never done this before! 

But I hope things turn out for you the way you believe they will. If I could only get that feeling of being "in love" w my fiance, he'd have to take a rest just to start again!! 

I was raised in a very dysfunctional home & have been a tomboy much of my life. It wasn't until I got back out in the world in 2004 that I started learning how many "players" there are out there that just want a piece for a while and move on...

I never said no to my xh on sex. My mother told me it was my job when I was only 10yrs old (along w a few other things no 10 yr old should hear) so that's the way I took it. It wasn't until I went to counseling to make sure I didn't abuse my children the way I had been abused by my mother that the "inner me" came out. I was molested by a male member in my family from age 4...for some yrs. When I learned I was able to fight off a "drunk" it all stopped. But it wasn't until I went through counseling-seeking for my children but learning about me- that I discovered my drive actually existed! In fact, when I did finally marry again (waiting for sex til married) that my new h (now x) started putting me down & saying I wasn't doing it God's way!? I had waited...I didn't understand. Needless to say the best thing that came out of that marriage was finding out about the books I mentioned, going to a seminar by him, and having continual contact with him when I didn't understand what was going on or what to do. He never guided me wrong!! If it weren't for him, I wouldn't be typing here today!

Good luck with everything. In a way I hope you get to find out about the books I suggested, in a way I hope you already have figured out a lot, in spite of some of the negatives that have been thrown your way here.

Just remember: we all learn how to walk by falling down!!! and we all fumble through life-no matter what! It's not whether or not you fall down- just like an ice skater, it's how you get up and go on gracefully


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## Barefootsugar

I'm signing off now. Don't really know what is happening at this point but I do hope things are going better for you both by now. My fiance still has a lot to learn when holding his temper is involved-when I'm "pushed" I do too. Dr. Harley says an angry outburst is a moment of temporary insanity-I agree. That is why when he came in questioning me not long ago I simply said in a calm voice- "don't push me right now", he continued & I restated myself. He was angry & I wasn't willing to "fight". In a fight things end up bloody. I refuse to call blame on either party- and Dr. H says that until you both can do that and just work on the issues you have in front of you (stop placing "blame") it will go nowhere positive.... so if Trying 2 is still out there - please send back some response. I will check again tomorrow. Hope all is going well.

Barefootsugar


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## memyselfandi

I'm a bit new to this forum within the last few months. It sounds like your dilemma has been going on for the past two years and as I offer my advice, correct me if I've missed something.

First of all, I think your wife has some extreme growing up to do. From the sounds of it, you have two teenagers at home and in my opinion, being that she's a married woman...girl's nights out should be few and far between and most of her time should be spent with you..her husband. By no means should you feel lucky that she asked you out with her and her girlfriends as her so called "date".

You see her as a great wife and mom..and she probably is. That still doesn't excuse the fact that she is married and still finds the need to hang out with her girlfriends instead of spending time with you and your children. Being that they're teenagers tells me that she's old enough and should be mature enough to be spending time with the man she loves..and NOT out hanging with the girls whenever she pleases.

You are putting up with waay too much and it's time to set some boundaries. It sounds to me like she's playing you like a fiddle. Granted she's not having an affair (and something a husband should NOT have to do is make SURE she's not)..but she sure is having a grand ol' time out with her friends while you sit at home and put up with it.

You've posted that you haven't had sex since July and that you gave her a bag full of things regarding her libido. That was a little more than wrong (and I can't blame her for being a little put off by that..obviously you were trying to make a point in a passive aggressive way, which wasn't right..but I can't blame you for being angry either..you just expressed it in the wrong way..)

The bottom line is that you're being waay too nice to her and she's taking you for granted. She's getting everything she wants out of this relationship. You stay at home with the kids and let her go out without you time after time while once in awhile she asks you to come along and you feel all "lucky to be her date??"

Excuse my slang but, "That just ain't right!!"

The bottom line is that she's taking you for granted. She can do what she wants when she wants and you put up with it. You being so nice doesn't make her love you more..it just makes her feel like she doesn't have to work to keep all the comforts she has with you. She has a husband that loves her..stays home with the kids while she goes out..sets no boundaries, etc. What a great husband!!

The biggest and saddest part of it is...you demand no respect from her..she can run and play with her girlfriends..you're the best husband around..as she walks all over you and spends no quality time with you...because you don't make her work for your love. 

You need to again, get angry with all of this and set some boundaries. Quit being afraid that she's having an affair and if you don't put up with her crap, she'll leave. You sound like a nice guy, a great husband, and a wonderful dad. It's time she grows up and either acts married or isn't married anymore.

Hopefully it won't come to that as I know you love her dearly but somewhere along the line you need to find yourself in all this as it sounds like you've pretty much lost yourself in trying to keep her.

You can't make anyone love you, but in your situation, I think a little tough love is pretty much ALL you need. You know she loves you..make her work to keep that love!!

She knows you love her...that's all she needs. But she doesn't appreciate you and she loves you..but she's not in love with you.

Don't make it so easy. You need to set some definate boundaries and if she doesn't like it..let her go. You can't make someone love you by being overly nice all the time. In every relationship..irregardless how much us women love getting flowers, being treated like queens, etc., if our hubbies did that all the time without us having arguements and disagreements...our marriages wouldn't be half as fun. 

Nobody wants to be married to a doormat. Strap on a pair and tell her to either grow us or you're moving on.


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## EnjoliWoman

First, you guys are talking about a serious subject via TEXT? If she won't take a call or meet you somewhere neutral then she's shutting the door and doesn't really want to accept responsibility for her lack of action. 

If she hasn't figured out or shared with you what she needs to fall back in love, then you both need to consider counseling. If she won't then it's over but without an official ending date at this point.


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## turnera

The original poster left this thread back in December because he didn't like the advice he was getting.


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