# A Long Roller Coaster Ride - You've Been Forwarned



## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

Where to even begin? This is long, and I understand if some opt out of reading, but if I'm going to receive the advice I want, I need to be completely transparent with all of you. I've been lurking on the site for the past 3 months, and finally feel like I need to share and get some advice.

Relationship: My wife and I met in high school. We began our relationship as friends and it progressed into something more than I ever expected. After a year and a half of being friends, we began to spend more time together outside of our group of friends, excluding them from our weekend getaways which allowed our friendship to strengthen. While we were friends, we became sexually involved, but chalked it up to nothing more than "just friends". I was fine with this relationship, but was clueless that she had fallen in love with me. The spring of 2009, we had a discussion about the upcoming summer and what my intentions were on a relationship. I told her that I wasn't sure that a relationship was in the cards for me. Then she went out on a date with some guy our friends set her up with, he tried to kiss her at the end of the date, which she refused. After she told me about the date, I became jealous and my feelings for her hit me like a ton of bricks. Several days later I asked her to be in a relationship with me, to which, with no hesitation said yes. 

Over the few couple of years, we remained together ever since, moving in with roommates in various places. In 2011, the relationship became stagnant, I grew weary of living with roommates, and maybe I was looking for a way out. I felt like she cared more about friends and roommates than growing our relationship and focusing on us. Thanksgiving of 2011, she found a message between someone and I that indicated our desires to engage in sexual activities, but nothing ever happened. I stopped myself dead in my tracks, and never messaged the person, and never met with them. I refused to cheat. Part of the pain that exist in our current relationship is that her grandmother had died 3 weeks before my attempted infidelity. That pain is very real to this day. She felt abandoned by me and like I was being selfish when she needed me the most. I completely understand this.

After a long discussion, I expressed my desire to be with her, addressed my issues with the relationship, and requested for a change in the dynamic we had been living in. So once the lease was up, we decided to get an apartment of our own. We fixed it up very nicely and continued to work on our relationship. I was in love with us. It was everything I wanted. We took a trip to Las Vegas with two of our friends in summer of 2011 and I proposed, she said yes. Months before the marriage, I brought my attempted cheating up, it was weighing heavy on my conscience. I expressed that I felt she may have been holding back, or that she might have been holding on to it. I reassured her that I wanted nothing more than to spend the rest of my life with her. She let go of everything after that conversation and fully immersed herself with no doubts, and said that the conversation made her feel like she would be safe with me.

Marriage (2013): It was the best day of my life. Our wedding was beautiful, she was beautiful. Unlike most typical husbands, I was invested in the wedding and helped her plan. We did a ton of DIY projects for the wedding which allowed us to bond even more prior to the big day. After the wedding, we were high on each other as most couples are. We couldn't get enough of each other. We stayed in our apartment for two years. We both had good jobs and made enough income to support ourselves. 

2015: We found a house relatively close to both of our jobs. Her sister later became a roommate. I figured since it had been a couple of years, maybe things would have changed and I could deal with the idea of living with a roommate, and it made our bills a little less expensive. My wife and I stopped using contraceptives/birth control. We were in a monogamous relationship, and if we were blessed with the start of a family, we would love the idea of welcoming a baby into our relationship. Shortly after, my wife conceived shortly after our anniversary and we found out in late April that she was pregnant. She would wake up every morning throwing up so she took a pregnancy test while I was at work. She called me immediately after the test read positive. I rushed home and wrapped her in my arms. I was going to be a DAD! From that day forward, I tried to get home before her, meet her at the door, hug and kiss her as she walked through the door. She had a feeling that something was wrong, but I kept it cool and tried to tell her to relax. It was a nerve wracking time...I was 25, she was 24...this was our first time being pregnant, and yes, it was scary. The lease was up in the rental home and as we were getting used to the idea of being parents, decided we didn't need to be living with roommates, or her sister for that matter. We moved in with my parents for a few weeks until we could find a place. While living at my parents, at 7 weeks into the pregnancy, she began to spot. We rushed to the hospital where it was confirmed that her HCG levels were dropping and she was in fact, having a miscarriage. My knees hit the floor in that room, I bawled like a baby. In the matter of 3 short weeks of finding out, I had already come to terms the fact that I would have a mini me in less than a year. After being released from the hospital, we sat in the hospital parking lot, held each other and just bawled. The next days and weeks were spent talking, communicating, embracing each other, and remaining connected. We were there for each other. We were both empty, but relied on each other to get through this tough time, praying that God would eventually bless us with our desired baby.

We moved to a completely new part of town, and really enjoyed going out and having fun. She had gotten a new job while we were at the last house and we lived nearby, so it was pretty convenient for her not to have to drive in traffic for an hour there and back. 

4 months later, she was pregnant again! We were elated, we were scared, but we clung to each other and hoped for the best. 5 weeks into the pregnancy, she had a miscarriage again. We were both devastated and heartbroken again. Why couldn't this go the right way? After several tests and blood work, it was identified that my wife's progesterone levels remained low and that her uterus never strengthened for the egg so efficiently become implanted. This time was slightly different, we were still grieving heavily from our first miscarriage, and this one drained a ton of our energy and happiness with each other....not the way it was supposed to be. 

2016: I began to question whether or not it was meant to be...was God showing us that we were not meant to have children? Was he showing us that we were completely wrong in being together by allowing her to miscarry? What was the universe trying to tell us? I began to sink into my own depression at the multiple attempts at having a baby and it failing. I began to question our relationship, why were things not going as expected. I was contacted by an ex, who became overly flirtatious, I reciprocated. She falls pregnant again. This one is shortly lived and as you can guess, she had another miscarriage. A month after the miscarriage, my wife found the messages between said ex and I...another perceived attempt to be unfaithful. She was finding porn on my phone which, along with the miscarriages, made her feel like she wasn't desireable in my eyes. She felt like a failure and like our she couldn't make me happy anymore. Instead of leaning into each other during these hard times, I failed to be there for her. We failed to be there for each other. We had a conversation and brought everything to the table about why I had engaged in the conversation, why I said the things I had to my ex. I told her my feelings about us and how I felt like I was questioning our relationship, if our miscarriages were signs that we were completely wrong together and that I wasn't too sure about our future. She broke down in my arms, I had completely broken her with this information and my feelings. Everything she thought was concrete, I turned to mush. I told her I needed some time to think things through. We spent the next week talking about the issue, holding each other, and discussing the future. After about a week, I determined that I was in it for the long haul. I was done being foolish, I was done taking her love for granted, I wanted to be with her for the rest of my life. We discussed marriage counseling to allow us to heal from the miscarriages and the emotional affair I had become involved in. We discussed our strong desire to still have children in the future and that one day we would go to a doctor to assist us in trying to actually carry a baby. I told her that I wanted us to get healthy to increase our chances of accomplishing this on our own. I was 311lbs, she was 230lbs, and we could both stand to become more physically healthy. 

We began our weight loss journey. We began to meal prep and really lead healthy lives, we were both experiencing weight loss together and I was feeling like it was strengthening our bond. We got so tangled up in fitness and becoming healthy, I had completely forgotten about marriage counseling (a huge mistake on my part), but showed her with my efforts every day that I was there for her and wanted to be with her. We had good times and bad times...times where sh*t hit the fan and we blew up at each other which I'm assuming came from the underlying resentment, hurt, and anger she had for me. We kept going with the fitness journey, I remained committed and never looked back into delving in an outside relationship, and still haven't to this day. Even with this, I may have failed to show my wife signs that I loved her. I failed to truly show her that I was willing to put in the work to restore our marriage. My wife got on birth control during this time, and we determined that we would eventually have a talk about attempting to have a baby again.

Fast Forward to 2017: Still no marriage counseling. My wife and I were doing great with fitness, we were in a routine and had it down. I had lost 108lbs and began studying to become a group fitness instructor. My wife lost about 50lbs. We both had a newfound confidence in ourselves, and I believed we were doing great since the beginning of last year when I made my decision to be with her. It was a new life for us, we had never been "thin", and I thought we were on the same page. My wife started started a new job at the end of 2016, and shortly made new friends at her job. Around March she began to go out for happy hours with her coworkers which I was completely fine with. I was fine with it until one night, she stayed out until well after midnight and got completely wasted at a coworkers house. She called me at 1 in the morning, saying she was drunk. As she woke me up out of my sleep, I had to teach a class in the morning, I told her "figure it out, you said you would be home by 11". In hindsight, that was another moment where I could have showed my concern and love for her, but failed to be a man and caring husband. She continued to go to happy hours on Fridays, and would come home around 7/8. We would go to her coworkers homes for small events and would drink. Occasionally, I would opt out as I was teaching classes on Sunday mornings and didn't feel like drinking until 2 am on a Saturday night, so there were times my wife would sacrifice having fun to stay home...which built some resentment. 


The BOMB: She kept up with the happy hours on Friday evenings, we would go out to dinner when she got home. We had been planning a trip to the Dominican Republic and I had a growing itch in me. I was ready to try for another baby. My wife hadn't been on birth control for several months, but failed to get pregnant. So I asked her the question via text, "Honey, when we get back from vacation, do you think it would be an option to go see a doctor about getting pregnant again?"...huge mistake to send this question in a text. She immediately responded with "I'm not sure, I'll have to get back to you." The next week went by without any physical intimacy.

A week since I had asked, she went out to happy hour, by this time I was tired of eating dinner at 8:30, and we began to argue about it. We were at dinner on a Friday in July, we had argued before we got to the restaurant about my feelings of her being inconsiderate to my wishes. At dinner, the conversation became more heated, we had both stonewalled each other. When we returned to the car, she said "I think we should separate". My world came tumbling down....and by down, I mean down. I wanted to vomit the meal I had just consumed. I immediately hopped out of the car, told her that she needed to drive home, and that I was going to walk the 2.5 miles back home and would see her there later.

I finally arrived home where I begged her not to do this to us. Told her that I was sorry for the conversation being as heated as it was. Told her that this wasn't the route I was interested in going. It was a month before we left for vacation. We spent the month talking about the issues, getting to the core depths of why she wanted to leave. She mentioned all the pain I had caused (as mentioned up above, everything on me), how she had been unhappy in the relationship for quite some time, didn't feel safe with me, and when I asked her about having children, she felt like God told her "no, this is not right". I spent the month before vacation waking up every morning hugging her, kissing her, showing her affection, and connecting emotionally with her. We continued to go on dates, be intimate. She continued to go to happy hours, we fought tremendously less. She stayed in the home, and I felt like I was really trying to show her how much she meant to me. All she kept giving me was that she might move in with our mutual friends after vacation to get some space and clear her head. Everything I had been doing and the way I was behaving was making her have second thoughts. She said she could tell that I was in love with her, that I loved her, but at times throughout our relationship, she could look into my eyes and see that I wasn't.

We went on vacation and had an amazing night. I planned a romantic dinner on the beach for our first night, we talked and enjoyed it. She was thoroughly surprised that I pulled this stunt and expressed her gratitude. The first night, we went to a bar and had more than a few drinks. We were both a little drunk and I accidentally spilled some of my drink on her dress so we decided to return to the hotel room and finish out our evening. We sat on the balcony and talked for over two hours about our relationship and the past and how we saw the future if we were to stay together. I also packed a box full of sticky notes to help us engage in intimate conversation throughout random periods during the vacation (on the beach, at dinner, at the bar, etc.). This helped us to reconnect tremendously, it felt good. On the last day of our vacation, we went on an excursion. On our way to the excursion, I could tell she was thinking heavily about something, but I remained silent and just observed. About ten minutes later she asked me what I thought about some townhomes about 20 minutes from where we currently lived (our lease just ended in September). I told her that I thought they were nice, that we could afford to live there, and that I thought it would be a great "new" start for us without all of the triggers (we lived in a similar area as our last place, and driving by there was a trigger for her of the events that took place in 2016). She said "okay", and went silent. We had an amazing time ziplining over the forest and it was a thrill. At the end, I told her that I couldn't dream of experiencing this vacation with anyone else but her, and thanked her for being my wife and best friend. When we arrived back at the resort, we walked to go have lunch at a nearby restaurant. She told me at lunch that she had been talking to our mutual friend and told her that she didn't think that she was going to separate for now, that she felt like she could remain in the house, and allow us to work on the marriage. She said that wouldn't feel completely right throwing something away that God may have intended for the rest of our lives. I was happy, but still uneasy about her commitment to work on this. After all, she had been hiding the fact that she was unhappy for over a year. We got drunk that night and slept in each others arms - no intimacy as it was that time of the month.

We returned home, and that same evening, she began to look at the town homes we discussed on vacation. She began looking at new decorations to make this house a home...all on her own. So I felt like this was going in a great direction. The weekend went by, we spent time together. Our weekend consisted of shopping on Saturday and then going to brunch and meal prep on Sunday. 

The week began to go by, and I started to get our budget file together so that we could see what our money situation really looked like. I had been the one to monitor our finances and paying our bills for the past two years. I told her that I had the budget together and that finances looked great for the upcoming months. On Tuesday evening, I could tell she was thinking. I questioned what was wrong, to which she replied "nothing". I woke up Wednesday morning and still felt like something was completely off. I stopped her in the bathroom as she was getting ready and questioned her again. I told her that I could feel something was off, to which she was adamant that everything was fine. Prior to vacation, I started looking into counseling. If she wasn't willing to go, I was willing to go on my own, I know that she needed to see a true change in me, and I was committed to getting it right...if not for her, for myself. So that same Wednesday, I had my counseling session. I called her on my way home to tell her how great it went and asked if I should pick up dinner on the way home, which I did. When I got home, we ate and were watching TV. I asked her what was wrong again. She said that she had been feeling anxious ever since I told her about the budget and that she was feeling like she really did need to take the time and space to think through this. It was like deja vu all over again. I spent the next few days talking to her, begging her not to leave and tried to regain the confidence she expressed the last day of our vacation. She ended up leaving that Sunday with a few clothes packed, a book shelf, and some pictures of us from our wedding, and some more recent pictures of us. 

Over the last month in the apartment, we continued to talk to each other. I stayed there and cried every single day at my broken life. I was miserable when she wasn't there. I didn't have friends close by to visit to take my mind off things. Sometimes I just sat in the bath for an hour. I was sinking into a deep and dark place. In this month, I started to dig deep in what I needed to do to show her I was willing to change for myself, for her, and for us. I read Naked Marriage, How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It, How to Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair, His Needs/Her Needs, and am now reading 5 love languages.

I took her out on dates, we remained physically intimate with each other. I decorated the balcony with christmas lights and had a bottle of wine, and flowers waiting for us at the return of our first date since she had left. She cried and asked "why have we never done this before?"...I couldn't give an answer. We spent that night playing card games and talking. We continued to go on dates and see each other 2-3 times a week. Several times she would call me crying saying she missed me so much and was having trouble sleeping at night. We bought a photo album on vacation, I filled it with pictures from our vacation (we looked so happy together), and snuck it into her room at our friends. She called me the next day crying and saying how sweet it was. I've been giving this all I have with surprises and dates, and just giving it all I have by applying the things I've learned in my reading.

I asked her if she had given the thought of coming back home..she said she just felt anxious about us as a couple and wasn't sure, but that all of the dates and me showing her affection and love was really making her second guess. She felt like when she told me we needed to separate, that I was going to react with anger, and that she felt like she was for sure done with the relationship, but now she's stuck and doesn't know how to move forward. She said everything I am doing is making her see that I'm committed and that I am truly in love with her. It came to the end of our lease last week, I spent my time alone packing up the rest of her stuff, packing up my own stuff...pretty much packing everything by myself. I have gone through multiple stages in grief...sadness, depression, anger...it's a revolving cycle. When I'm with her, it feels great, but as soon as she leaves, I'm stuck in the reality of the situation.

We text every single day, we talk on the phone every single morning and every evening. She says that she can't say that we are over because she still has strong feelings for me and that she's in love with me, but not in love with what our relationship had become. She also brought back up marriage counseling two weeks ago, but has yet to commit to a time - I told her I was willing to pay for it (unbeknownst to me, she got her own bank account two weeks ago). I even decided to "help" her pay part of her responsibilities in our bills because she didn't have enough money (our mutual friends that she lives with are getting married next month and she was having to pay for some stuff for the bachelorette party), so I decided to help her even though her choosing to get her own bank account. She tells me she loves me every single day. 

To this day, we are still intimate, about 1-2 times a week, sometime several times in a day. The physical intimacy is the ultimate connection between spouses. I've sent numerous texts expressing how I feel about her, our relationship, and my love for her. I've also addressed the fact that I was not willing to allow her to date or get involved with other people and that if that's what she wanted, she needed to divorce me and completely call it quits. She continues to tell me that we aren't "broken up" and that we are not "over", so this keeps hope alive in my head and heart that at some point, she will be ready to come home...additionally, our friends get married next month and she probably won't want to live there afterwards as they are seeking to buy a home in the near future.

I even have plans later this month to take her to an "Adult Prom" - neither of us went to our senior proms, so I feel like this will help get us back to when we were young.
I have also ordered her a peacock hairclip as the anniversary of her grandmother's death is coming up next Friday. Her grandmother loved peacocks, and I felt it would be a nice gesture to show her that although I wasn't there for her when she needed me to be, it hasn't left my mind, and that I am here...is this bad?

I've moved in with my grandma and uncle to get on my feet and save some money. At the end of November, I will have a significant amount of money saved and will be ready to move into a new place. I expressed this to my wife and told her that we could get completely new things, new decor for the house, and that we didn't have to put anything that we've had in our previous apartments in the new place...we could trash it all and get completely new stuff, we didn't even have to put up pictures from our wedding, and that we could have a fresh start. She said that if we had a fresh start, she wanted to ensure that she had no resentment towards me, and that she wasn't sure that was completely possible. I've also started to look into how I would want to set the new place up if it's just me living there and things don't pan out the way I wish...that has been really hard and painful to imagine a space without her. 

My wife doesn't know, but if she tells me "IDK" at the end of November, I am planning on going dark as night on her. I will tell her that I'm only giving her until the end of this year, and that hopefully within the last month of this year, I hope that she can decide. If she has not been able to make a complete decision in the 6 months since this all started, I will ask her to divorce me. I will ask her to file for the divorce because a) I was not the one to separate, or separate our finances b) she was the one who thought she wanted out c) I cannot continue to be dangled on a string while she tries to find out what makes her "feel good" again if she will never "feel good" again in our relationship, D) I will not allow her to continue to be a cake eater while I am stuck in limbo.

I've really been trying guys...I just don't know what to do, where to go from here and all the advice from friends and family (grandma, uncle, and dad) that knows about it and the history doesn't seem to really help the situation much. I guess my main questions are: 


1) Do I tell my wife that the physical intimacy needs to stop so that we can focus on each other and ourselves mentally and emotionally?
2) Are my expectations for the end of the year realistic? I feel like the longer I am living without her the easier it will become to be without her in the future.
3) I've seen a lot about the 180, but I fear that will not get me the results I'm seeking. Some more advice here would be appreciated.
4) How the F did asking for a baby lead to all of this?
5) Are my efforts at repairing my marriage in vain? Do I continue to re-read the books I've purchased? Do I continue to go on with pursuing her?
6) When do I need to realize she isn't coming back and let go of it all?
7) She has said that sometimes by talking about the past issues, it makes her feel worse about the situation. How are we supposed to repair things if we can't talk about them?

I'm terribly sorry for the long post, but do feel that all of the backstory is completely necessary to receive the best advise from fellow users. Thank you for lending an ear and sharing your opinions. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. As you can see, I've been an open book in my post and will gladly answer questions. Thanks!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

It looks like she has been depressed for a while (probably since the two miscarriages). Found solace in her nights out with friends or something else, and nothing has taken away her depression. She is now blaming you and the marriage for how miserable she feels. You made mistakes and her depression has magnified those mistakes. Only through counseling can she get the help she needs to get healthy again. This is bigger than you and her. You need professional big guns to help both of you out.

If she is receptive, you may suggest that she needs Individual therapy with a good psychologist that works with a whole group of physicians. It will take several sessions, but once the diagnosis for depression is official, a psychiatrist from the group will prescribe meds for her. She will continue with therapy and see the psychiatrist a couple of times a year too. Her main counselor will be the psychologist. Believe me, she desperately needs it or her life and yours will go down the drain.

Good luck with this because you can't help her see the route she needs to recover. She needs to see that she needs help and therapy. It is the best and quickest route to healing her illness and then your marriage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*To take it a step further, I cannot help but feel that you need to cut to the quick and schedule joint sessions with a good proven marriage counselor!*


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## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

Thank you for the responses. I've mentioned marriage counseling several times prior to the actual separation. She said that she wasn't willing to attend while we were living together. Now that we are separated, she did bring it up and said that she needed to start "digging" in order to find what will make her want to live with me again. She said if she comes back, she wants to have no resentment or anger towards me when we attempt our "fresh start". However, here we are, separated, and still no commitment to attend...although I haven't asked again.

I'm currently living with family and am pinching every penny I can. Towards the end of next month, I will have almost 7K saved and will be ready to begin living elsewhere. I would like to believe that at this time, my wife would be willing to come back to the marriage and allow this "fresh start". A new place, completely new things in our home...I'm willing to forgo putting up our wedding pictures in this new place if we are to start a new marriage, with new intentions, and with new purpose.

Just an update on the events that occurred since the original post: 

We are still communicating daily, but no talks on what needs to happen in order for her to want to come back. I mentioned that I feel I'm the only one who talks about the problems in our marriage and am the only one putting forth the effort to figure out this issue. She still continues to tell me that she loves me and that she's in love with me. 

We spent time together on Saturday. We went out to a local event and went to dinner. She even stayed the night with me as my family was out of town. Our time was spent cuddling on the couch, kissing, and watching our normal TV shows (we have a pretty good line up). We were intimate that night. 

Sunday morning, I teach a class, so I woke up and left to go teach while she stayed in the bed asleep. I returned, kissed her on the forehead, took a shower, and crawled back into bed next to her. We held each other, and were intimate again. We both showered and headed out for breakfast (brunch, really). She mentioned at breakfast that she was considering going back to her doctor to get back on her anxiety medicine because she thought it would help.

We returned back to the house to watch some more TV. Before she left, I gave her the gift (hair clip). But before I gave it to her, I stood in front of her, cupped her face with my hands and said "Babe, there isn't a single day that goes by that I don't think about the mistakes I have made, and how badly I've hurt you. I know there have been times where I haven't taken care of you and wasn't there when you needed me most. I don't want to be that man ever again. I know that one of those times was 6 years ago on this upcoming Friday, and I know that is the anniversary of your grandmother's passing. I wanted to give you something special to show you how much I love you and that I haven't forgotten." I went and dug the hair clip out of my drawer, made her close her eyes, placed it in her hand. When she opened her eyes, she immediately started bawling and gave me a huge hug and a kiss. She said it was the most thoughtful thing I've ever done and that she knew it was because I wanted to do it. Said she had never mentioned the anniversary of her grandmother's passing, and questioned how I remembered. I simply said "I haven't forgotten the times I've failed to be there for you honey."

20 minutes after she left, she called me crying. She said that it truly touched her heart, and that she was so appreciative of the thoughtfulness and kindness of that action towards her. She also texted me twice yesterday afternoon (about 3 hours apart), thanking me again for picking something so special and that it was the most genuinely thoughtful, perfect example of love and that she loved me. She also said she felt so lucky to have someone who loves her as much as I do.

I guess this is the hard part of limbo...I feel like I'm continuously making deposits into her "love bank", and attempting to create a positive experience with every encounter we have. 

We have the adult prom next weekend, which I've rented us a hotel room at the location of the event in case we get too drunk. I'm hoping to make this special and memorable as well.

Is this the normal process of attempting reconciliation or being stuck in limbo? 
Other posts indicate that the harder you chase, the harder the WAW runs. How long do I keep up the chase? 


As you can tell, I'm crazy about my wife...I'm truly in love with her. 

Thanks again for reading and sharing your thoughts...


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Two words for you.

STAND UP

Men with strong boundaries are attractive

Men that are needy appear weak.

You won't win this being weak.

Do this...

Make the marriage counseling appointment - message her with the date and time.

If she doesn't show up, you simply go without her.

It's time.

Time to lead.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

God, please forgive me for I'm being an ass**** man you have been such a weak, pus*y whipped guy that is not wonder you are in the situation you are, and keep playing the pathetic "pick me" losing game and probably will continue to do so.

Be a man. Cut the weak pathetic play and start acting like a man. Do not beg, stop asking her to comeback to you. You only look weak and pathetic. Women do not care nor are attracted to men acting this way. She will continue to play you as she sees it fit, because there are no consequences to her. 

Why can't you be on your own? Are you lacking so much self-confidence that you think that she's the only one? Why are you so afraid to let her go? I hate when time after time I See men proclaiming: oh God I love her so much, she is my soulmate, we belong together; well obviously not according to the wayward spouse/girlfriend. 

You need to act once and for all in a decisive, confident manner and issue an ultimatum and follow through, otherwise just stop winning and let her do what she wants while you wait like a puppy.


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## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> God, please forgive me for I'm being an ass**** man you have been such a weak, pus*y whipped guy that is not wonder you are in the situation you are, and keep playing the pathetic "pick me" losing game and probably will continue to do so.
> 
> Be a man. Cut the weak pathetic play and start acting like a man. Do not beg, stop asking her to comeback to you. You only look weak and pathetic. Women do not care nor are attracted to men acting this way. She will continue to play you as she sees it fit, because there are no consequences to her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. Maybe you failed to read the end of the original post. Or maybe you did and believe I should just do it sooner than the end of November. I haven't begged her to come home in quite some time, or mentioned her coming home to her as I know that she doesn't want that kind of pressure right now, but have expressed my love to her in various ways.

I wouldn't agree with you in that I'm afraid to be on my own, or that I'm lacking "so much self-confidence"...I make plenty of money with my two jobs to support myself. Maybe I lacked self confidence when I was 311lbs, but definitely not now. I definitely have a ton more self confidence than I did 2 years ago. And to be frank, I do love my wife so much, I never proclaimed that she was my soulmate or that we "belong" together, so I apologize for your misconception and twisting of my words... I'm simply making a concerted effort to make amends with my wife in order to reconcile.

As stated in the original post, I'm already looking at places to live on my own, and am willing to. I've also already started thinking about what I want in "my own place" should things not pan out.

I'm going to let this week and next week play out and see how the date goes next Friday. Honestly, I've provided the ultimatum in the past, and it got responded to with "If you make me choose right now, it's a no. I have to see a change in you and see you through a new pair of eyes."

I've already written down things I want to say to her when the time is right that I believe will definitely show her that I'm no longer willing to allow her to walk all over me, have her cake and eat it too, or to toy with my emotions and drag me through the mud any longer if she is not willing to return.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Java.. yes you might not be begging anymore, but what I tried to convey to you is that your passive responses (waiting for her to make up her mind, your continuous attempts to show her has much you love her) is what you've been doing wrong. You look weak. This does nothing to women's attraction and interest toward a male or partner. 

Although you are determined to end things at the end of the year, this is showing your wife that she still can string you along, because there are so far, no consequences. Why are you allowing this? A strong confident man, an alpha man if you would want to call it, does not wait, does not gets strung along. He makes a determination and gives an ultimatum immediately, and follows through, being able to move ahead with the outcome of the ultimatum, one way or another.

By the way, I wasn't trying to put words that you didn't say; when I mentioned the phrases: soulmate, I'm so in love with you, etc., it was a generalization of the frame of mind that is seem in this type of forums, where the abandoned partner, can stop calling the wayward partner with those words, like that would make a difference; the wayward partner might, or might not care, but it shows the abandoned partner as a weak individual, looking rather pathetic. That's what I meant by it.

My advice to you is to not continue waiting. Just give the ultimatum now, be damned with the consequences, but at least you show her that she is not longer in control. YOU ARE.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

First of all you should know that a WAW can look a lot like a wife that was having a secret affair and hasn't decided yet if she's going to go with her new guy or her husband. Now that we got that out of the way let's move on to your issue. 

It looks to me like you are doing all of the work (i.e. beta male behavior). While she is being appreciative of your gestures she isn't reciprocating them (because you are a beta male). You would do a lot better by deciding what it is you want, communicating that directly with her, and then letting her have the space to decide what she wants (i.e. alpha male behavior). Basically, that means you stop dating a woman that isn't sure she wants to be with you (i.e. alpha male behavior). Instead you only give the gift of romance/dates to your wife if she wants to be in a committed relationship with you. 

If you aren't familiar with alpha/beta behavior. Beta males act like they need to earn the woman's approval by doing all the romantic/caring things you've been doing to get their attention. Alpha males are confident and don't tolerate an imbalance in a relationship and will handle it decisively by making a plan and letting the woman have the space to make her own decision. Basically, it's the attitude that says I'd love to be in a relationship with you but you have to meet my standards too or I'm not interested. 

You're behavior does have some assertiveness/alpha qualities in it, like when you plan dates and activities. So keep that up. 

Your past abhorrent behavior of chasing other women will not instill her confidence in you so you need to figure out how to fix that on your own regardless of what happens. Go to counseling and work through your issues regardless of whether you stay with her or not. That is about your self improvement and improving your character.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

Maybe she can't get over the bits where she felt you betrayed her at her most vulnerable. She shouldn't be stringing you along. It's not fair to either of you. The intimacy will confuse the both of you, so really think about whether you want that to continue. 

You sound like you're overcompensating for past behaviour with the things you are doing. She seems depressed and would benefit from counseling and perhaps meds. From what you've said, you've both made mistakes, but I have a hankering that if she were the one to come on here and tell her side of the story we'd probably tell her to start the divorce engines... so you think about doing the same. 

You do what you think is right, but, people only deserve your caring if they're willing to meet you half way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

IT looks to me as if its you making all the effort and apologies, and she isn't doing much at all. 
Also you mention God a lot for you and her, so I wonder what she thinks you have done to Biblically justify a separation? Or possible divorce?
The set up is strange, having sex and such when she refuses to come home seems wrong to me. 
You may need to show her a little of what she will be missing and play it cool. Cut down the contact and be a little mysterious. Stop the sex and dates and set some boundaries. 
Give her a set time to make her decision but stop enabling her behaviour.


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## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> First of all you should know that a WAW can look a lot like a wife that was having a secret affair and hasn't decided yet if she's going to go with her new guy or her husband. Now that we got that out of the way let's move on to your issue.
> 
> It looks to me like you are doing all of the work (i.e. beta male behavior). While she is being appreciative of your gestures she isn't reciprocating them (because you are a beta male). You would do a lot better by deciding what it is you want, communicating that directly with her, and then letting her have the space to decide what she wants (i.e. alpha male behavior). Basically, that means you stop dating a woman that isn't sure she wants to be with you (i.e. alpha male behavior). Instead you only give the gift of romance/dates to your wife if she wants to be in a committed relationship with you.
> 
> ...


I've thought about your first line, did some digging into our cell phone bill within the first month of the separation, and fortunately, nothing. I honestly think it's my actions in the past, along with the miscarriages, and the constant arguing prior to the bomb of "let's separate" that brought back all of the resentment...I'll admit, during our arguments, I would say some pretty harsh words like "if you're this unhappy, why are you still with me"....so I guess in a way, I kind of brought it on myself?

I would like to believe that in the relationship, I was typically alpha...always doing what I wanted, when I wanted, chasing after my own dreams/hobbies (playing piano, becoming a fitness instructor, etc.). During that time, I feel like my hobbies took more of my time, and I stopped focusing on meeting her emotional needs. After the issues at the beginning of 2016, we went straight into working out, and I never revisited the issues or brought them up...never made a concerted effort to heal the hurt and pain I caused.

I completely understand what you're saying towards the end of your second paragraph...however, the local event this past weekend was her doing. She asked me if she could take me out, and she actually paid for everything.

This week, I've changed from being the one to initiate conversations, i.e. calling her, texting her first, and have allowed her to initiate. This week, she has been the one to reach out to me first via texts/calls. I answer the calls and respond to her texts, but only if she initiates. 

Can you describe exactly what you mean my actions having "some" alpha qualities? I've looked up some stuff on how to become the alpha-male in the relationship, so I'd like to know further which of my specific actions exude those qualities in your opinion. Thanks!


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## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

growing_weary said:


> Maybe she can't get over the bits where she felt you betrayed her at her most vulnerable. She shouldn't be stringing you along. It's not fair to either of you. The intimacy will confuse the both of you, so really think about whether you want that to continue.
> 
> You sound like you're overcompensating for past behaviour with the things you are doing. She seems depressed and would benefit from counseling and perhaps meds. From what you've said, you've both made mistakes, but I have a hankering that if she were the one to come on here and tell her side of the story we'd probably tell her to start the divorce engines... so you think about doing the same.
> 
> You do what you think is right, but, people only deserve your caring if they're willing to meet you half way.


Completely agree about your first line. I was a selfish jacka$$ when I betrayed her when I promised to be faithful on my wedding day. I realize that seeking it out is just as worse as doing it. It really isn't fair that I'm being strung along, and I'm almost to my wit's end. However, with her being the one to initiate conversations this week, I'm thinking she's slowly coming around. The intimacy is really confusing and making the situation more complex. 

Overcompensating for past behavior, I can't argue that viewpoint...however, it isn't constant, and I feel like it shows her what we could have moving forward.

That last sentence really got the gears turning in my head. I'm going to remain cordial through the rest of this week and next week as we have the event coming up, and don't want to set a bad tone prior. However, I've begun to develop what I will say to her, once I have my head wrapped around what I need to get off my chest. I'm not willing to let the limbo go on too much longer as I need to figure out what I'm going to do for myself moving forward. I'll be honest, what I have so far is pretty direct, cut and dry, and to the point. It's almost time to start taking care of me. If I don't, who will?


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## javathehutt (Oct 4, 2017)

@Diana7



Diana7 said:


> IT looks to me as if its you making all the effort and apologies, and she isn't doing much at all.
> Also you mention God a lot for you and her, so I wonder what she thinks you have done to Biblically justify a separation? Or possible divorce?
> The set up is strange, having sex and such when she refuses to come home seems wrong to me.
> You may need to show her a little of what she will be missing and play it cool. Cut down the contact and be a little mysterious. Stop the sex and dates and set some boundaries.
> Give her a set time to make her decision but stop enabling her behaviour.


I am making most of the efforts. While she's returned some in kind, it isn't to the extent that I have been. Like I said above, she initiated the event this past weekend. While we were there, she would reach for my hand, hug me from behind and kiss my neck...small displays of affection. I've begun to allow her to initiate contact. I do my thing...work, go to the gym, if I have a class to teach, I do that...but I don't initiate the contact. If she texts me while I'm doing my own activities, I wait some time to respond. 

There have also been other times where she has texted me and I've allowed several hours to pass before responding. She follows up with texts like "why are you ignoring me? ", "do you not want to speak with me?". There have been several times where I have not responded to her via text immediately, and she follows up with a phone call to me. For example, I was at a training class on a Saturday to learn a new fitness format that I didn't tell her I would be attending. It was a 6 hour training class and my phone was in the locker room. She messaged me several times, with no response from me. Then called me, no answer, then she messaged me some more, which she received no response. Once I finally got a break from the training, I read all of her messages, and then called her. She answered the phone and was crying saying that she missed me a lot and she thought I didn't want to talk to her. 

My belief is that thinking about committing adultery is just as bad as doing it. To my wife, my intentions of committing adultery and unfaithful to her were just as bad as doing it. We both believe in God and are both christians...although we are not the perfect examples of this. God does justify adulterous acts as a way out of the marriage.

I completely agree with you about setting a time to make her decision and stop enabling behavior. That time is getting closer.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

javathehutt said:


> Can you describe exactly what you mean my actions having "some" alpha qualities? I've looked up some stuff on how to become the alpha-male in the relationship, so I'd like to know further which of my specific actions exude those qualities in your opinion. Thanks!


You are setting and planning dates, which is alpha. That's taking charge and is something you should have been doing your entire relationship (never stop dating your wife or someone else will fill in). You picked your career goal and went for it, which is also alpha. Alphas are men that lead, are driven and succeed, but they are also confident enough to know their self worth and don't put women on a pedestal. Instead they give them the space to move into the relationship at their own speed.

I'm going to send you a book recommendation or two via PM.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Whats the update?


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