# Sex is my biggest problem...



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Backstory... Wife's depressed. She's SAHM, but is very frustrated with SAHM life. Anytime, I suggest a job, she gets defensive. Either way, things have been ****ty for a while. Basically, over the last few years, I've tried, realized it was all futile, and kind of withdrew from the relationship. A few weeks ago, she was criticizing me for not giving her emotional support. Her father committed suicide last summer. I felt like I gave her support, but definable cannot fulfill all of her emotional needs, and I feel bad about it, but her needs are too much for me. So I had already begun withdrawing from the relationship when her father killed himself. Because she needed me, I supported her at the time, but now were back to our typical life. 

When she accused me of not being there for her with her father, I got defensive. I was as supportive as I could be. Her mother has dementia, and I took care of her mother for the few days she lived with us. Basically, put her in bed, fed her, etc... My wife was mostly out at the bar with her family grieving (Irish funeral). So after that, I was still being supportive. I'm not an *******. Or at least intentionally. So I feel like I stepped up. But I had also made the determination that I'd withdraw from the relationship before that. 

Alright, here's where the unintentional ******* comes out. I've been trying to ignore sex over the last year or so. But I can't completely. So I'm failing at the withdrawing thing. A couple weeks ago, I guess she decided to step it up for some reason, and we had sex 3 nights in a row. One of those nights, she thought it was taking too long, so she ended it. Then the sex stopped again. I guess I got distracted by the shiny object. Although, I've said for a while, if the sex was better, then I'd be able to put up with a lot more. Another ******* thing to say, I guess. Only thought this, didn't say it out loud. 

At about the same time, I let it slip that I had been intentionally withdrawing for over a year. She thought we were doing better. Maybe because I wasn't asking for sex. So, last week, she suggested we have sex. Or maybe I did. Whatever it was, I figured after the kids went to bed we'd have some intimate time. Bedtime came around, and I was offered a rain-check. Then the next night, I was offered a rain-check. The next night, same. Skip to last night, with 8 rainchecks in hand, she got her period. I know, not her fault, but it makes all of those rainchecks seem a bit more ill advised. And I'm frustrated.

So, here's where I am. I feel like an *******. Basically, she's all stressed and all I want is sex. I guess I'm not tough enough to fully withdraw. I'm not sure I want to leave. I know I'm not strong enough to. I want our kids grow up in a household with our family. But, I can prevent myself from getting resentful over sex. There's other stuf, but the sex is what really gets to me. I guess I deserve it because I can't give her adequate emotional support. 

OK. That's my ****. Don't know what I'm looking for. Guess I'm just venting. Tell me I'm right, tell me I'm an *******. Whatever.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Sex is YOUR biggest problem. What is hers? What does adequate emotional support look like?


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Problems can build on each other. Stress and other issues can affect your sex life. A bad sex life can increase stress and cause other issues. You end up with this big pile of feedbacks each making other things worse. 

Do you think you can have a non-threatening talk with her about how all these problems are combining and whether there is a way to try to do an overall fix?

Marriage counseling might be a way to get that started.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Sex is YOUR biggest problem. What is hers? What does adequate emotional support look like?



Sometimes, I think it's a product of her depression. Basically that we're not connecting. But, sometimes it's the kids mess when she wakes up. She's mad I didn't clean up before she woke up. She's complained that we haven't gone out in a while, but it's been a bad time. My brother had a baby, and my parents had some medical issues, so our typical baby sitter was unavailable. We did go out on a date night the other night. That's basically what she asks for. I was hopeful, but not optimistic about my chances for sex on our date night. This one was no different. She had too much to drink and passed out as soon as we got home. 

But in regards to her depression. THat's what I cannot support. It just seems lose-lose. Everything is a fight and nothing worth fighting over.


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

There's an easy solution to this problem, but you aren't going to like it...pull the plug and get out. Just look your wife in the eye and say "this isn't the type of relationship I signed up for and you aren't the type of person I imagined I'd be married to when we made our vows. I'm done with these games, bye." 

People are going to recommend counseling and trying to meet each other's needs. But in all honesty, does it make sense to fix a relationship that probably never had a strong foundation to begin with?


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Problems can build on each other. Stress and other issues can affect your sex life. A bad sex life can increase stress and cause other issues. You end up with this big pile of feedbacks each making other things worse.
> 
> Do you think you can have a non-threatening talk with her about how all these problems are combining and whether there is a way to try to do an overall fix?
> 
> Marriage counseling might be a way to get that started.


I feel like we tried that talk many times before. She knows I'm disappointed in our sex life. I've stepped up to fill her other needs without getting anything in return. Try or not, the results are the same. And we did counseling. She refused to talk about sex due to past sexual abuse issues. That leaves me little opening.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> There's an easy solution to this problem, but you aren't going to like it...pull the plug and get out. Just look your wife in the eye and say "this isn't the type of relationship I signed up for and you aren't the type of person I imagined I'd be married to when we made our vows. I'm done with these games, bye."
> 
> People are going to recommend counseling and trying to meet each other's needs. But in all honesty, does it make sense to fix a relationship that probably never had a strong foundation to begin with?


If I keep asking the same question, maybe I'll get an answer I like more.  I know. That's been the most consistent suggestion. I'm not strong enough for that.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Get the books _Lovebusters_ and _His Needs, Her Needs_, both by Willard Harley. Read them and do what they tell you to do. Figure out how to stop doing things that destroy love in your marriage and how to meet her top emotional needs on a consistent basis. Her needs will likely be different from your own, but they are just as important and valid, even if you don't share them. Be the absolute best husband you can be, one that any woman would love to have. Give this a few months, say 4-6. If she responds, continue working the program with her. If she doesn't, then you'll know you've done what you can to make your marriage better, and will be in great shape to be a fantastic partner in your next relationship. 

Is your wife being treated for her depression? Is it clinical depression, or is situational and being caused by unhappiness with her current life?


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> I feel like we tried that talk many times before. She knows I'm disappointed in our sex life. I've stepped up to fill her other needs without getting anything in return. Try or not, the results are the same. And we did counseling. She refused to talk about sex due to *past sexual abuse issues*. That leaves me little opening.


Jeeze, way to bury the lead! Your wife is a survivor of sexual abuse? That's a whole 'nother ball of wax and will require specialized help. Your garden variety MC isn't really equipped to handle that. Is your wife in IC for her issues related to the prior abuse? If not, or if she refuses to address it, then there may be very little you can do to help either her or the marriage. She needs to want to get better for there to be any chance of her getting better.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> Get the books _Lovebusters_ and _His Needs, Her Needs_, both by Willard Harley. Read them and do what they tell you to do. Figure out how to stop doing things that destroy love in your marriage and how to meet her top emotional needs on a consistent basis. Her needs will likely be different from your own, but they are just as important and valid, even if you don't share them. Be the absolute best husband you can be, one that any woman would love to have. Give this a few months, say 4-6. If she responds, continue working the program with her. If she doesn't, then you'll know you've done what you can to make your marriage better, and will be in great shape to be a fantastic partner in your next relationship.
> 
> Is your wife being treated for her depression? Is it clinical depression, or is situational and being caused by unhappiness with her current life?


OK. So I'll download the book. I'm kinda a sponge when it comes to reading. And I'm a book learner. But, in the past, I've read books and tried to share them with her and it made me resentful. It either took her too long to read it (8 months), or she got something out of it that I thought was counter to the point. Or maybe it was just uncomfortable. IDK. But hey, everytime I read a book, I get optimistic for a hot second. Until reality sinks in. 

So two weeks ago, I made a comment about her depression. She got very defensive and said she wasn't depressed. I pointed out that she takes antidepressants. She said they were working, thus, she wasn't depressed. She called her sister who agreed that she was depressed. But I was kinda shocked. If you are going to a doctor who is treating you for depression with anti depressants, shouldn't it be easy to acknowledge that you're depressed. But, yes. struggled with depression for 30 years plus.


----------



## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Read "married man sex life primer" by athol in addition to the books above.
You need some insight from them.

*
Its the ultimate "what came first, chicken or the egg" dilemma*
She is lacking the emotional connection she needs to give you sex
You are missing the sex you need to give her emotional connection


Someone is going to have to 'man up' and provide to get. Its going to have to be you


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> Jeeze, way to bury the lead! Your wife is a survivor of sexual abuse? That's a whole 'nother ball of wax and will require specialized help. Your garden variety MC isn't really equipped to handle that. Is your wife in IC for her issues related to the prior abuse? If not, or if she refuses to address it, then there may be very little you can do to help either her or the marriage. She needs to want to get better for there to be any chance of her getting better.


We had a decent sexual relationship before kids. Sexual abuse was never an issue then. Now it just seems like a convenient excuse to not work on it. And I don't say that lightly. I know sexual abuse isn't something to treat lightly. I'm just not 100% convinced it happened, or is the true issue. Her sister was apparently abused alongside her and her sister is skeptical as well.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Steve2.0 said:


> Read "married man sex life primer" by athol in addition to the books above.
> You need some insight from them.
> 
> *
> ...


Read it. I guess it could help some, but I wasn't a big fan of the book. I did try/apply it, but got to the point where I give up. I wasn't ready to leave. This was about 4 years ago.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

The beauty of the Willard Harley books is that you don't have to get her to read them with you. You read them yourself. Do what they say for a while. See if it makes any difference. If it does, then you may try to get her to read them too. If it doesn't, then you've done no harm and likely helped better yourself. 

It's clear just from your posts that you don't respect your wife and likely don't like her very much. If she's cognizant at all of the world around her, she's aware of it. That's not a turn-on and isn't doing anything to improve your sex life. Previous posters are quite correct, you two are in a spiral of unmet needs building resentment, leading to unmet needs, leading to more resentment. You can put a stop to that negative feedback loop, but it's going to take real work. Start by cutting out the disrespectful judgments - such as, for instance, your view that the CSA shouldn't be impacting your wife, or shouldn't impact her differently than her sister. Oh, and stop over-sharing about your sex life with your wife's sister - it's disrespectful and kinda creepy. Insist on IC for your wife and MC for the both of you, with someone who has experience with adult childhood sexual abuse victims. 

Or, if all that just sounds like too much, then man up and file for divorce. There really are only a few options here. You can stay and accept the status quo. You can stay and take actual concrete steps to drive improvement in your marital dynamic. Or, you can leave and work with your wife towards as amicable a divorce and custody/financial settlement as possible. But if you're going to do the first, then you'll need to figure out a way to be happy with that choice. Because it _will_ have been your _choice_.


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

One of the reasons I'm not really in favor of trying to do a better job supporting her needs is she is a SAHM, so you are already subsidizing her needs in the relationship. How old are your kids and how many do you have? Are they infants that need constant care and getting up in the middle of the night? If not, then she's not carrying her weight in the relationship because if you were to divorce her she'd still have the child care AND have to work full time. Think about that and then ask yourself what is missing in your self-esteem to allow you to accept anything less than porn star type sex several times a week as being normal in your relationship? 

Regarding her depression issues. Look, if she really has that then it's her job to make sure she gets treatment so that she is able to be a good partner to your. If she isn't then that is another reason to get rid of her, and in the future never date someone that is a project. 

While you're doing your reading check up Corey Wayne's book called how to be a 3% man, because you need to step up your game and improve yourself. If you feel like you need a good 'ol kick in the keister, then call up Tom Leykis when he's on the air and tell him your problems. He's very misogynistic but good at helping you understand a strong male perspective and sticking up for yourself.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> The beauty of the Willard Harley books is that you don't have to get her to read them with you. You read them yourself. Do what they say for a while. See if it makes any difference. If it does, then you may try to get her to read them too. If it doesn't, then you've done no harm and likely helped better yourself.
> 
> It's clear just from your posts that you don't respect your wife and likely don't like her very much. If she's cognizant at all of the world around her, she's aware of it. That's not a turn-on and isn't doing anything to improve your sex life. Previous posters are quite correct, you two are in a spiral of unmet needs building resentment, leading to unmet needs, leading to more resentment. You can put a stop to that negative feedback loop, but it's going to take real work. Start by cutting out the disrespectful judgments - such as, for instance, your view that the CSA shouldn't be impacting your wife, or shouldn't impact her differently than her sister. Oh, and stop over-sharing about your sex life with your wife's sister - it's disrespectful and kinda creepy. Insist on IC for your wife and MC for the both of you, with someone who has experience with adult childhood sexual abuse victims.
> 
> Or, if all that just sounds like too much, then man up and file for divorce. There really are only a few options here. You can stay and accept the status quo. You can stay and take actual concrete steps to drive improvement in your marital dynamic. Or, you can leave and work with your wife towards as amicable a divorce and custody/financial settlement as possible. But if you're going to do the first, then you'll need to figure out a way to be happy with that choice. Because it _will_ have been your _choice_.


I did read his first book. The title sounded familiar. Up to page 32 in this one. 

I can appreciate the negative feedback loop. But if what reaffirms for me is sex and I'm not getting it, then what? 

I didn't share my sex life with her sister. She called her sister and told her I said she was depressed. Her sister agreed with me. 

The conversation I had with her sister about sexual abuse was because she was supposedly there. My wife was involved in the conversation. I spoke very little. My sister in law doesn't remember and displayed skepticism. The way my wife talked about it wasn't so detailed. My wife said, "Something weird was going on, but I didn't know what". Her sister offered that maybe this wasn't eating away at her and causing all of these problems, but just that it was a convenient excuse. 

Her therapist gave her a book to read on sexual abuse. I read it, and thought it could be helpful. My wife refused to pick it up for 3 months and then finally did and took another 4 months to read. Shortly after reading it, I was ready to discuss. She surprised me 8 months later when she said she had finished the book. But I had already pulled back and sex wasn't really on the table at the time.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> One of the reasons I'm not really in favor of trying to do a better job supporting her needs is she is a SAHM, so you are already subsidizing her needs in the relationship. How old are your kids and how many do you have? Are they infants that need constant care and getting up in the middle of the night? If not, then she's not carrying her weight in the relationship because if you were to divorce her she'd still have the child care AND have to work full time. Think about that and then ask yourself what is missing in your self-esteem to allow you to accept anything less than porn star type sex several times a week as being normal in your relationship?
> 
> Regarding her depression issues. Look, if she really has that then it's her job to make sure she gets treatment so that she is able to be a good partner to your. If she isn't then that is another reason to get rid of her, and in the future never date someone that is a project.
> 
> While you're doing your reading check up Corey Wayne's book called how to be a 3% man, because you need to step up your game and improve yourself. If you feel like you need a good 'ol kick in the keister, then call up Tom Leykis when he's on the air and tell him your problems. He's very misogynistic but good at helping you understand a strong male perspective and sticking up for yourself.


Kids are 5 and 7. It's been suggested shes using me for lifestyle support. 

Porn star sex, I can only dream. One time, though I'd like her to make good on a raincheck. I typically get reset sex. Just enough to keep me interested. And most of the time, she's watching tv during it. A slight bit of effort on her part would go a long way imo.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

To throw a bucket of cold water at this, I don't think anyone can emotionally support a person treating their depression with alcohol.
#2 This situation is putting an unusually high level of stress on you. Are you seeing any physical symptoms? have you consulted with your physician?
#3 Stop counting rainchecks. Who keeps eight? if she offers another one tell her "no thanks, I already have one". It is not helping either of you to keep count.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> If I keep asking the same question, maybe I'll get an answer I like more.  I know. That's been the most consistent suggestion. I'm not strong enough for that.


Are you strong enough to live the rest of your life in a sexless marriage?

You can try to bury this part of your life. You can try to ignore your own sexual needs. It can be done. In fact it is done way too often. It probably the #1 reason why many married people are secretly unhappy. 

But everyone deserves to be happy and you are the only person who can truly make your self happy.

So you can try to mask your unhappiness with all the other stuff, but even there it sounds like you can't win for losing. 

Your argument that you want your children to grow up in a household with your family is flawed. But many people stay together for the kids without realizing that all they are doing is teaching their kids to live in a dysfunctional household. When they get older, they will mimic what they know. Do you really want your children to be in sexless marriages?

For your own sake, especially since it appears that you have tried, you now owe it to yourself, your children and quite frankly your wife, to move on with your life and leave that one behind.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> To throw a bucket of cold water at this, I don't think anyone can emotionally support a person treating their depression with alcohol.
> #2 This situation is putting an unusually high level of stress on you. Are you seeing any physical symptoms? have you consulted with your physician?
> #3 Stop counting rainchecks. Who keeps eight? if she offers another one tell her "no thanks, I already have one". It is not helping either of you to keep count.


I've always thought I was good at managing stress. I think I'm mostly fine. Maybe just looking for some reassurances. 

Lol. The 8 rainchecks are just what I kept on hand from the last two weeks. I have shoe boxes full of them under my bed. No cash value and apparently expired.


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

lessthennone said:


> Kids are 5 and 7. It's been suggested shes using me for lifestyle support.
> 
> Porn star sex, I can only dream. One time, though I'd like her to make good on a raincheck. I typically get reset sex. Just enough to keep me interested. And most of the time, she's watching tv during it. A slight bit of effort on her part would go a long way imo.


So let me just point this out. She's not just a SAHM...she's a SAHM with the kids in school! She's living the life of luxury and is not pulling her weight in the relationship. What do you get out of being married to her??? You can literally do better than her with ANYONE!

I don't care if you stay married or divorce her, but just know that the longer you wait before divorce the more it will cost you. Also know that if you divorce AND take the time to improve yourself, you will be much better off than before. You'll find younger hotter women that are better in bed and freely willing to do oral, anal, three ways, bondage, or whatever you're wanting. The guys that flounder after divorce are the ones that don't fix themselves or their problems that contributed to the dissatisfaction that their wives had with them. Also know that she knows that if you divorce her that her life is going to get much harder, so she's only playing you because she knows you won't stand up for yourself. I can tell from what you posted that you have no confidence or assertiveness. That needs to be fixed, whether it is for your relationship with your wife or future women.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

She isn't going to change.

Accept her the way she is or make it a deal breaker.

Its ok to end a marriage because your married to someone who doesn't want sex.

Good luck


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Anti-depressants are well known to cause sexual dysfunction ranging from killing the libido to ED, to causing inability to orgasm. Did the drop in sex happen around the time she started taking medication?


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

In light of my recent discussions with other posters regarding selfishness, I would just like to point out that the issue the OP is having is a result of actually being selfless not selfish. It is only because he selflessly accepted this situation, rather than selfishly advocating for his needs that he finds himself in the state he is. That is not to say that his wife would have become some sexual dynamo, but if he advocated for himself (ie acted selfishly)several things may have taken place:
#1 he would be getting his needs met
#2 he would not be getting his needs met with this woman but more probably from a different one
I would imagine a third option would be that he would not be getting his needs met and still be living a miserable life of unhappiness (but then that would be his choice and would actually represent a real sacrifice unlike doing the dishes to take the load off while your needs are getting met)


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Anti-depressants are well known to cause sexual dysfunction ranging from killing the libido to ED, to causing inability to orgasm. Did the drop in sex happen around the time she started taking medication?


She's been on antidepressants for the last 30 years. She's switched her prescription to help address the lack of libido, but nothing changed. 

Sex was never great, but it was good. It mostly dropped when we had kids. Having the kids stay at the grandparents hasn't increased the quantity of sex. If anything, it makes the excuse that much more hurtful.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Ynot said:


> In light of my recent discussions with other posters regarding selfishness, I would just like to point out that the issue the OP is having is a result of actually being selfless not selfish. It is only because he selflessly accepted this situation, rather than selfishly advocating for his needs that he finds himself in the state he is. That is not to say that his wife would have become some sexual dynamo, but if he advocated for himself (ie acted selfishly)several things may have taken place:
> #1 he would be getting his needs met
> #2 he would not be getting his needs met with this woman but more probably from a different one
> I would imagine a third option would be that he would not be getting his needs met and still be living a miserable life of unhappiness (but then that would be his choice and would actually represent a real sacrifice unlike doing the dishes to take the load off while your needs are getting met)



I can't tell if I'm being selfless or selfish. She says I'm selfish. I honestly don't know. Part of me thinks I'm gas lighting her. It's just sex, right? 

After reading the MMSLP, I did spend a few days specifically asking for sexual stuff. Not demanding, but forceful in a way I thought might turn her on. It didn't. I mean, once she declined, I was basically done. There was no plan b.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Do you guys like each other?


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> In light of my recent discussions with other posters regarding selfishness, I would just like to point out that the issue the OP is having is a result of actually being selfless not selfish. It is only because he selflessly accepted this situation, rather than selfishly advocating for his needs that he finds himself in the state he is. That is not to say that his wife would have become some sexual dynamo, but if he advocated for himself (ie acted selfishly)several things may have taken place:
> #1 he would be getting his needs met
> #2 he would not be getting his needs met with this woman but more probably from a different one
> I would imagine a third option would be that he would not be getting his needs met and still be living a miserable life of unhappiness (but then that would be his choice and would actually represent a real sacrifice unlike doing the dishes to take the load off while your needs are getting met)


Your definition of selfish is different than mine.

Leaving a relationship because your not compatible isn't selfish.

Selfish is never compromising always having to get things your way no matter what the cost to others.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> Your definition of selfish is different than mine.
> 
> Leaving a relationship because your not compatible isn't selfish.
> 
> Selfish is never compromising always having to get things your way no matter what the cost to others.


Being selfish is rational self interest. So yes, leaving a relationship because you aren't compatible is selfish. But being selfish is good, despite what all the "selfless" people say. You get into a relationship because there is something in it for you. Your needs are being met. When they stop being met, it is time to move on.

Never compromising is greed, which is NOT the same as selfishness, regardless of what the nay-sayers say. The fact is that you do compromise in a relationship, but you do so on the basis of YOUR priorities. So if it your priority to remain in a relationship you compromise on some lesser priority. Greed is the opposite of that, you want it all no matter what.


----------



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Do you guys like each other?


I love her, she loves me.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> I can't tell if I'm being selfless or selfish. She says I'm selfish. I honestly don't know. Part of me thinks I'm gas lighting her. It's just sex, right?
> 
> After reading the MMSLP, I did spend a few days specifically asking for sexual stuff. Not demanding, but forceful in a way I thought might turn her on. It didn't. I mean, once she declined, I was basically done. There was no plan b.


There is nothing wrong with being selfish. No one will advocate for your needs better than you will. No one can do it better than you can. It is called being assertive.
She may very well consider you selfish. But I think what she probably considers you is greedy and that is her problem, not yours. She is actually the one being greedy and if you accept that, it becomes your problem.
You have tried to talk to her, you have tried to improve your self, she still is not interested for whatever reason. So you have to make the choice - happiness or unhappiness. Because as others have said, once you get out of a bad relationship, you will find out that there are literally millions of options available to you. There is no good reason to stay stuck and unhappy.
You teach people how you want to be treated. She is teaching you how she wants to be treated. You get to decide if you are willing to accept that or not. Your inaction is teaching her that the way she is acting is OK


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Being selfish is rational self interest. So yes, leaving a relationship because you aren't compatible is selfish. But being selfish is good, despite what all the "selfless" people say. You get into a relationship because there is something in it for you. Your needs are being met. When they stop being met, it is time to move on.
> 
> Never compromising is greed, which is NOT the same as selfishness, regardless of what the nay-sayers say. The fact is that you do compromise in a relationship, but you do so on the basis of YOUR priorities. So if it your priority to remain in a relationship you compromise on some lesser priority. Greed is the opposite of that, you want it all no matter what.


So if the husband wants sex everyday and the wifecwants sex.... only when the sun moon and stars align plus 9 rain checks and the husband would compromise for maybe once a week but the wife still wants the perfect alignment and 8 rain checks is it still being selfish to say to ones self this woman does not want to compromise fairly so I think I will move along.

You definitions are an over simplification of shelfish and greed there are other factors such as are thet compromising fairly or not.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> So if the husband wants sex everyday and the wifecwants sex.... only when the sun moon and stars align plus 9 rain checks and the husband would compromise for maybe once a week but the wife still wants the perfect alignment and 8 rain checks is it still being selfish to say to ones self this woman does not want to compromise fairly so I think I will move along.
> 
> You definitions are an over simplification of shelfish and greed there are other factors such as are thet compromising fairly or not.


Yes, it is being selfish. And there is absotively posilutley NOTHING wrong with that! If more people really understood that they are only in a relationship because they themselves are being selfish, as is their partner, I think relationships would be stronger. Instead we create this illusion of selflessness and then when things fall apart we can't or don't understand why. So we blame the other as being selfish.
So if you go into a relationship KNOWING that you are both acting selfishly in getting into it, then IF the relationship is a high priority for you, you will act accordingly. Because I guarantee you, that as soon as your needs aren't being met you will start to have issues and vice versa.
And there is no such thing as "fair". So how one compromises "fairly" is always in the eyes of the beholder. In the example you gave in your post. The wife may very well feel she is being "fair" and so might the husband. But so what, neither of them are happy. Why? Because their needs are not being met therefore what the other wants isn't "fair". "Fair" is whatever we are willing to accept our selves.
As I said before greed is uncompromising and irrational. Rational self interest is not greed. The OP may decide that his marriage is more important than whatever pleasure he might gain from sex and decide to compromise his needs in favor of remaining married. That is his choice and it to would be a selfish one.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Yes, it is being selfish. And there is absotively posilutley NOTHING wrong with that! If more people really understood that they are only in a relationship because they themselves are being selfish, as is their partner, I think relationships would be stronger. Instead we create this illusion of selflessness and then when things fall apart we can't or don't understand why. So we blame the other as being selfish.
> So if you go into a relationship KNOWING that you are both acting selfishly in getting into it, then IF the relationship is a high priority for you, you will act accordingly. Because I guarantee you, that as soon as your needs aren't being met you will start to have issues and vice versa.
> And there is no such thing as "fair". So how one compromises "fairly" is always in the eyes of the beholder. In the example you gave in your post. The wife may very well feel she is being "fair" and so might the husband. But so what, neither of them are happy. Why? Because their needs are not being met therefore what the other wants isn't "fair". "Fair" is whatever we are willing to accept our selves.
> As I said before greed is uncompromising and irrational. Rational self interest is not greed. The OP may decide that his marriage is more important than whatever pleasure he might gain from sex and decide to compromise his needs in favor of remaining married. That is his choice and it to would be a selfish one.


While I see your point and can agree with the gist of it. I also think compromise is considered meeting in the middle ground.

And rational compromise is the goal. With a rational compromise each party would feel like its a good deal to keep both as happy as possible.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I love her, she loves me.


That's kinda hard to grok from this thread. You think she is using you for cha ching and all you seem to want of her is sex.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> While I see your point and can agree with the gist of it. I also think compromise is considered meeting in the middle ground.
> 
> And rational compromise is the goal. With a rational compromise each party would feel like its a good deal to keep both as happy as possible.


Dude, I have already discussed compromise. In great detail. 
You compromise a lesser priorities because you have a greater priority. But even compromise is selfish. Especially in a relationship. You don't just give up something unless you get something in return. That something may just be the continuation of the relationship, but you still get something return. Even in compromise you are protecting your own best interests.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you say that you love her and she loves you, but love is not the same as like - and it's fairly apparent that you two don't actually like one another all that much. You also seem to be saying that you've tried everything possible and that your wife is completely unwilling to compromise. So, I guess I'm not sure what it is that you're looking for. Were you hoping we'd have some ideas on how to magically make your wife do what you want? We don't. You can't. Because you cannot control another person. And continuing to try is not only foolish, it's controlling and damaging to both of you. 

So, in light of all that, I think the only responsible thing you can do is separate and file for divorce. You are unhappy. She is unhappy. You two are clearly not compatible, on a myriad of fronts. So, if you're sure you've given this relationship your best try, what else is left? You can stay, but you aren't going to get any happier. So, man up and file for divorce. Go find someone who is actually what you want in a partner.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Dude, I have already discussed compromise. In great detail.
> You compromise a lesser priorities because you have a greater priority. But even compromise is selfish. Especially in a relationship. You don't just give up something unless you get something in return. That something may just be the continuation of the relationship, but you still get something return. Even in compromise you are protecting your own best interests.


Hmm,

Ok if you say so.


Selfish all the way .thats the way to go! Let me know how that works out for you

All relationships require compromise .every one.
Even freingships require compromise.

But whatever works for you.....Dude!


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hmm,
> 
> Ok if you say so.
> 
> ...


And, did you not freaking read all of the times I have discussed compromise! Lie to yourself and tell your self you are being selfless and let me know how that works for you...Dude!
If you really don't think at the end of the day you aren't being selfish you are going to have the same problems as the OP


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ynot said:


> And, did you not freaking read all of the times I have discussed compromise! Lie to yourself and tell your self you are being selfless and let me know how that works for you...Dude!
> If you really don't think at the end of the day you aren't being selfish you are going to have the same problems as the OP


Name a place were I said compromise was selfless!


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

chillymorn69 said:


> Name a place were I said compromise was selfless!


Your previous post. You seem to have an issue with the fact that even compromise is a selfish choice. We all should be acting out of our own self interests (which is selfishness in itself). When we don't that is when we end up feeling like the OP. You seem to want to argue against something that is self-evident.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

lessthennone said:


> Porn star sex, I can only dream. One time, though I'd like her to make good on a raincheck. I typically get reset sex. Just enough to keep me interested. And most of the time, she's watching tv during it. A slight bit of effort on her part would go a long way imo.


When the sex kinda sucks, I've been known to mentally make out my grocery list - but I'm a fantastic multi-tasker.

I'm guessing the sex kinda sucks for her if she's watching TV. :frown2:


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> Backstory... Wife's depressed. She's SAHM, but is very frustrated with SAHM life. Anytime, I suggest a job, she gets defensive. Either way, things have been ****ty for a while. Basically, over the last few years, I've tried, realized it was all futile, and kind of withdrew from the relationship. A few weeks ago, she was criticizing me for not giving her emotional support. Her father committed suicide last summer. I felt like I gave her support, but definable cannot fulfill all of her emotional needs, and I feel bad about it, but her needs are too much for me. So I had already begun withdrawing from the relationship when her father killed himself. Because she needed me, I supported her at the time, but now were back to our typical life.
> 
> When she accused me of not being there for her with her father, I got defensive. I was as supportive as I could be. Her mother has dementia, and I took care of her mother for the few days she lived with us. Basically, put her in bed, fed her, etc... My wife was mostly out at the bar with her family grieving (Irish funeral). So after that, I was still being supportive. I'm not an *******. Or at least intentionally. So I feel like I stepped up. But I had also made the determination that I'd withdraw from the relationship before that.
> 
> ...



- Your wife has the option to be a stay at home mom. Very fortunate.

- She is bored and depressed, so you suggest a job.

- She gets mad about getting a job.....ridiculous.

- Us guys are more stoic than women, so we aren't the greatest at giving emotional support. She has female friends to talk with?

- Women who aren't into sex much, will always say, everything is great when their men drastically stop initiating for sex......really?!

- A woman is to take care of her man's needs as her own. That means physically and sexually. So when you're in the mood, she is there for you.

- A man is to also take care of his woman's needs as his own. That means more emotional support, listening, strong shoulder to cry on, etc.

- It simple. This is HER PROBLEM and she needs to get help in regards of her family. She needs to meet female friends and family to talk with and maybe even get counseling.

- When a man has a healthy sex drive, its his problem and never his woman's. WRONG.

- A loving and caring wife would take care of her man's needs so your situation wouldn't be happening.

- You must find ways to support her more emotionally, listen and don't offer suggestions or solutions (that's how the ladies work), a shoulder to cry on and be her rock.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hmm,
> 
> Ok if you say so.
> 
> ...



- Exactly.:smthumbup:

- I know of couples were the woman got married because she wanted the house and kids, the lifestyle or being wealthy.....that is selfish of her.

- But I also know many couples were just wanted love and companionship. They do not have huge houses, money to burn or the lifestyle.

- Some people are in it for themselves, while others are not.

- But to say everyone is selfish is not true at all and nonsense. That's a personal and biased view from their life experiences and nothing more.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> - Exactly.:smthumbup:
> 
> - I know of couples were the woman got married because she wanted the house and kids, the lifestyle or being wealthy.....that is selfish of her.
> Perhaps, so. I am sure the H married for the same reasons. Who are you to judge?
> ...


Actually it is absolutely true. How long you would remain with Mrs Cuddlebug if YOUR needs stopped getting met? Spare me the crap about how she is supposed to look after your own needs as her own. She looks after your needs because she (selfishly) wants to remain in a relationship with you


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Ynot said:


> Actually it is absolutely true. How long you would remain with Mrs Cuddlebug if YOUR needs stopped getting met? Spare me the crap about how she is supposed to look after your own needs as her own. She looks after your needs because she (selfishly) wants to remain in a relationship with you



- You are not the champion of selfishness but you are obsessed with it.


- Your opinion is not the correct and only one, even though you think it is.


- Your advice is based on your experiences and being divorced.


- How is that going to help a married couple? It's not.


- I bought myself sex toys to get it out of my system. This way I don't go out and meet other ladies who want a friend with benefits. It's not ideal but its better than cheating.


- Yes, a woman is to take care of her man's needs as her own and vise versa. Out of love, companionship, yes, there is some self sacrificing but its because you want each other to be happy. No other reason.


- If you talked to Mrs.CuddleBug about how we both are selfish, etc. she would freak on you and she's a bigger and strong woman, taking after her dad. Try talking that way to most women and see how they deal with you.....


- A person who is divorced and negative will never see this and only give advice to get separated / divorced and everyone is selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish, etc......


- Try giving positive advice and that actually helps keep marriages together.......but you aren't doing this. Why not?


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> - You are not the champion of selfishness but you are obsessed with it.
> 
> 
> - Your opinion is not the correct and only one, even though you think it is.
> ...


I am divorced because I was SELFLESS. I did not advocate for myself properly. I am sorry that you are unable to. I am sorry that you think sex toys and masturbation are a substitute for reality. But those are your choices. Choices that you selfishly made on your own because for whatever reason you have decided that your needs are less important than being married is. Again that is your selfish choice and you are entitled to it. Unlike you, I realize that I cannot think or act for anyone else. 
Speaking of giving advice, I do so from the basis of my won experience. I realize that had I been more willing to advocate for my own needs, that I may have saved myself from years of frustration, anger, resentment and hurt. OTOH, you keep saying:

- When a man has a healthy sex drive, its his problem and never his woman's. WRONG.

- A loving and caring wife would take care of her man's needs so your situation wouldn't be happening.

Yet here you admit that you bought your self sex toys and masturbate to satisfy YOUR own needs.
So I really think if either of us should not be giving marital advice to someone complaining about the lack of sex in their marriage, that it would be you. 
You are all about telling someone how their spouse should be acting, all the while yours apparently isn't following your script.
Now having said that, I would like to point out that you are in fact being selfish, and again I could not care any less that Mrs Cuddlebug would freak out on me or that she is a big woman. Apparently you are so selfishly committed to your relationship with her that you quake in fear of her reaction. But again that is your SELFISH choice.
So please stop with the inanity and stop trying to act as though a divorced person has no sage advice to give others. Especially when you can't even follow your own.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Any chance of this thread jack ending soon?


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> Any chance of this thread jack ending soon?


It isn't actually a thread jack. It goes straight to the heart of the matter. I am sorry you don't understand that. A thread jack might be something like talking about a hockey game. But in this case the OP stated that his needs weren't getting met, and he was unhappy. So we have been discussing that the source of his unhappiness arises from not being selfish as opposed to simply having expectations. Some here like to believe that expectations removes the element of selfishness from our lives without realizing that those expectations themselves are based on selfish motives.


----------



## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Ynot said:


> It isn't actually a thread jack. It goes straight to the heart of the matter. I am sorry you don't understand that. A thread jack might be something like talking about a hockey game. But in this case the OP stated that his needs weren't getting met, and he was unhappy. So we have been discussing that the source of his unhappiness arises from not being selfish as opposed to simply having expectations. Some here like to believe that expectations removes the element of selfishness from our lives without realizing that those expectations themselves are based on selfish motives.


No, _you_ don't understand. It's a thread jack because you're arguing semantics with another poster rather than addressing the OP.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ynot said:


> It isn't actually a thread jack. It goes straight to the heart of the matter. I am sorry you don't understand that. A thread jack might be something like talking about a hockey game. But in this case the OP stated that his needs weren't getting met, and he was unhappy. So we have been discussing that the source of his unhappiness arises from not being selfish as opposed to simply having expectations. Some here like to believe that expectations removes the element of selfishness from our lives without realizing that those expectations themselves are based on selfish motives.


*MODERATOR MESSAGE:-*

Yes, it actually *is* a threadjack. You are drawing another member (not the OP) into a debate that, essentially, has nothing to do with the OP's situation.

If you wish to continue your discussion, please start a separate thread.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Reset.

You are in the classic vicious circle of you needing sex to feel emotionally connected, and her needing emotional connection before she wants sex. One of you needs to break the cycle, and since you're the one here seeking advice, it's got to be you.

Someone said above that she should seek female friends for her emotional support, and that it was her responsibility to provide for your sexual needs. That's bull. She needs strong emotional support from YOU before she'll feel connected enough for sex. What does emotional support look like to her? What kind of response was she expecting from you when her father died? You may think you were being supportive to the best of your ability, but obviously she felt it didn't measure up, since she mentioned it. Maybe she was hoping for different supportive measures, other than what you did. Find out what she actually wants, and do that, instead of guessing, or providing what you would want for yourself.

Sex is something that two people do when BOTH want it. Preferably enthusiastically. Your default setting (like most men) is to want sex. Her default setting (like many women) is to not want sex. You have been married for how long, and you still don't know what actions you can do to flip her switch? It's not going to occur to her to flip it herself. Her switch is stuck from lack of use and care.


----------



## Julie smith (Feb 4, 2018)

I have a similar situation. We had sex for the first time after we got married. On our honey moon my husband tells me that he isn’t sexually attracted to me. This DEVISTATED me!!! When the kids were younger Sex actually got better and we were happy for a good chunck of time. He owns his own business and works 100 hours a week! I have always been a stay at home mom and was always with my kids if they weren’t in school. Life has been very lonely for me because it’s only been about the kids for the past 20 years! Now both my kids are away at university and i’m more lonelier now then ever before. My husband never has taken time off from work except for a week a year and that doesn’t happen every year. He’s a workaholic!!! Now that it’s just us home I feel lost. I started having an affair but we never had sex. I am very attractive and constantly get comments on my looks. I just don’t get them from my husband. This is very hurtful to me. I want us to be able to have amazing sex now that my kids aren’t here anymore but we just seem to not even know who we are as a couple anymore because it’s always been about the kids. I never thought I’d be in this situation. Me having an affair gave me confidence and made me feel pretty and wanted all the things my husband never made me feel. I now don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like I can’t leave because i’m not financially able to but I am miserable with him. Please help! Any advice is appreciated!!!


----------



## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

Julie smith said:


> I have a similar situation. We had sex for the first time after we got married. On our honey moon my husband tells me that he isn’t sexually attracted to me. This DEVISTATED me!!! When the kids were younger Sex actually got better and we were happy for a good chunck of time. He owns his own business and works 100 hours a week! I have always been a stay at home mom and was always with my kids if they weren’t in school. Life has been very lonely for me because it’s only been about the kids for the past 20 years! Now both my kids are away at university and i’m more lonelier now then ever before. My husband never has taken time off from work except for a week a year and that doesn’t happen every year. He’s a workaholic!!! Now that it’s just us home I feel lost. I started having an affair but we never had sex. I am very attractive and constantly get comments on my looks. I just don’t get them from my husband. This is very hurtful to me. I want us to be able to have amazing sex now that my kids aren’t here anymore but we just seem to not even know who we are as a couple anymore because it’s always been about the kids. I never thought I’d be in this situation. Me having an affair gave me confidence and made me feel pretty and wanted all the things my husband never made me feel. I now don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like I can’t leave because i’m not financially able to but I am miserable with him. Please help! Any advice is appreciated!!!


Have you told him how you feel? You might want to bring it up gradually and gently maybe, but does he know there's a problem?


----------



## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Sorry man, you're screwed. Your wife has everything she wants from you without having to bother herself with sex. Accept the fact that she's probably never going to change or find a more satisfying relationship. 


I can totally relate to your situation and it sucks. Just stop expecting change because you want it. Chances are she doesn't give a rats ass about anything other than your paycheck and her status as SAHM.


----------

