# Frustrated...



## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help? 
Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while. 
Any advice is appreciated.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Have the tough talk with her. Both of you need to be 100% honest. Get an action plan. Do you plan to live like this forever? What's your time frame? Give yourself a time frame. She needs to see a doctor and get a full check up. She also needs to see a therapist. Once a month is pathetic. 

You can fix this. She either gets onboard, you accept it and live an unfulfilling life, or you move on and find someone that wants our d!ck everyday. You control your destiny. I wish you luck.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rasputin said:


> Any advice is appreciated.


How does nonsexual intimacy look like in your marriage? Do you and your wife hug, hold hands, give each other back rubs, etc? Or do you avoid this because you know it will lead to desiring her and subsequent rejection of her not being in the mood?


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> She needs to see a doctor and get a full check up. .


She's seen a doctor a few times. Hormones are ok, apparently. She did have issues with depression but not for quite a while as far as I know. Regardless during those time and now, nothing is different. We've has the tough talk where I laid it out and things improved...briefly. They only improve when I get angry. Waiting until I'm angry is such an awful tactic(and I've told her this). 
My timeline? I would have told you we crossed it years ago. I just refuse to be without my kids. We all know fathers lose out. Even part-time parenting doesn't work for me. My kids are my raison d'etre, my everything. However, being this frustrated and miserable doesn't set a good example for them.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Rasputin said:
> 
> 
> > Any advice is appreciated.
> ...


I initiate 99% of the nonsexual intimacy. I'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring. She's so non-intimate that I feel like the nurturing female of the relationship, whether it be with her or the kids. She will at times initiate but it's because I've reminded her that we relate like roommates and I refuse to be married to a roommate. 
I continue to do all those things you mentioned.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Rasputin said:


> I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
> Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
> Any advice is appreciated.


Depression is a libado killer. 
It completely kills my drive, I found out that I have to treat the depression first and then my drive comes back. 

Your wife perhaps needs to find something to help her depression first and then her drive will return. 

Does she go to the gym with you? 

Exercise is a great way to help with symptoms, plus you can bond with each other while helping her do weights or something else. 

Medications that are used for depression can also affect sex drive, she should discuss that with her doctor though, to see what's the best treatment for her. 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

MrsAldi said:


> Your wife perhaps needs to find something to help her depression first and then her drive will return.
> 
> Does she go to the gym with you?


She's tried several different meds. All failed to help long term. We relocated to a climate with lots of warmth and sunshine and that helped dramatically. 
She does not work out with me. I try but she won't. I've lifted for many years but if I try coaching her she views it as an attack. It's just how she is. Someone else could say what I said verbatim and magically it's gospel. Annoying, but us working out together just doesn't work unless it's her workout, which has been ineffective for her and frustrates her. I do think her body image issues have been a factor in all this. She has even commented that my desire for her has never changed, thick and thin. It's undeniable that I'm attracted to her.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rasputin said:


> I initiate 99% of the nonsexual intimacy. I'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring. *She's so non-intimate that I feel like the nurturing female of the relationship*, whether it be with her or the kids. She will at times initiate but it's because I've reminded her that we relate like roommates and I refuse to be married to a roommate.
> I continue to do all those things you mentioned.


OK, nonsexual intimacy can be both good and bad. Sometimes people also need personal space in order to decompress and not feel everyone in life trying to cling to them and compete for more attention. So in addition to making sure there is nonsexual intimacy, also make sure that there are appropriate boundaries and respect for her personal space if she needs it.

Let her see you having a good time all on your own, and encourage her to do the same. Then "share" that with one another later during nonsexual intimacy.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Rasputin said:
> 
> 
> > OK, nonsexual intimacy can be both good and bad. Sometimes people also need personal space in order to decompress and not feel everyone in life trying to cling to them and compete for more attention. So in addition to making sure there is nonsexual intimacy, also make sure that there are appropriate boundaries and respect for her personal space if she needs.
> ...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Rasputin said:


> .....I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
> Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful.
> 
> ....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
> Any advice is appreciated.


OK I am the HD in an HD/LD relationship. With the help of a great sex therapist my wife and I have negotiated a frequency of sex that works for us. I desire sex to feel emotionally close to my wife. I had to learn how to not be clingy or make her feel smothered. I also had to learn to not want to become codependent upon my wife's emotional sexual support/validation.

A really good book that discusses these issues is Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy. A much different perspective on the same problem can be found in just about any of David Schnarchs books like the Passionate Marriage or the Crucible. Schnarch would say that you haven't self-differentiated and self-soothed sufficiently. Both basically tell you to take responsibility for your own happiness and find other things besides sex with your W that give you the emotional support pleasure you are really craving.

After all, how do celibate monks deal with no sexual outlet. How did you as a teenager deal with no sexual outlet when your T-levels were even higher. 

Something that the Sex Therapist who helped save our marriage suggested was that if I needed to have sex and my wife just wasn't into it at the time, to masturbate and ask her to hold me while I did. 

Talk to you wife tell her that you want to explore with her ways you can both emotionally bond that don't involve PIV sex that she might feel comfortable with. The point is not to change her, but to find out what she might enjoy (if anything) doing with you that will make you feel good and loved. 

Good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Rasputin said:


> badsanta said:
> 
> 
> > ....She felt that something like me putting my arms around her was a sexual advance. She has trouble separating the two. In turn, I backed way off. There's very little contact now and things got no better. I go out and do my own thing. I take kids myself to do fun things(always have) without inviting her. Things have not changed. This has all been the culmination of many years. She's made efforts to meet me in the middle but it falls well short and without sincerity.
> ...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> *How does nonsexual intimacy look like in your marriage*? Do you and your wife hug, hold hands, give each other back rubs, etc? Or do you avoid this because you know it will lead to desiring her and subsequent rejection of her not being in the mood?


Not only non-sexual touching, but non-sexual _conversation_. 

Do you ask her questions about her day and REALLY LISTEN to her? Do you know how she feels (not what she THINKS but what she FEELS) about seeing those sad t.v. commercials about abandoned dogs? Do you TELL her how much you appreciate the things she does for you, without using the word "appreciate"? Are you being SINCERE when you say these things?


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> After all, how do celibate monks deal with no sexual outlet. How did you as a teenager deal with no sexual outlet when your T-levels were even higher.


At 37, I find my T levels are higher now than my teens and twenties. I appreciate the feminine form and female sexuality so much more now. I grew up very religious and have thrown those bonds. I refuse to be celibate in any form.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Vega said:


> Not only non-sexual touching, but non-sexual _conversation_.
> 
> Do you ask her questions about her day and REALLY LISTEN to her? Do you know how she feels (not what she THINKS but what she FEELS) about seeing those sad t.v. commercials about abandoned dogs? Do you TELL her how much you appreciate the things she does for you, without using the word "appreciate"? Are you being SINCERE when you say these things?


We talk all the time with her doing the vast majority of the talking. Interesting about not saying the word appreciate. I'll look at how I verbalize my appreciation.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I understand about being desired by other women. Our solution is far out there but my wife and I agree that if we tried to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. My wife knew of my reputation for having multiple girlfriends at the same time and that after being cheated on by my ex fiancee, my one attempt at monogamy failed. My wife took the lead and started to ask her visiting girlfriends to join us in bed. At the time I did not know that my wife was fantasizing about women. Eventually we ended up in a 30 year poly triad with her best friend who we both loved.

We also did a little bit of groups sex and wife swapping so that my wife could experience sex with someone other than me since she was a virgin when we married. I involvement in group sex was an eye opener to how many of our neighbors and friends were into it. Mothers of three, scientist and even a doctor living in our development. However, after seeing then divorce one by one we stopped playing with others and stuck to just the three of us. Six years ago we became monogamous and it took a few years to adjust to it.

I had two women at home so that one was always up for sex on any given night and the threesomes were much better than sex with one person. What we normally did was a threesome for some wild sex and then one on one for more quality time and making love. When I was a kid and my aunts and uncles asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said that I wanted to be a playboy. I was into girls in first grade and by the time I was 11, I had to steady girlfriends at the same time and was making our with them. At 14 I had a 17 year old girlfriend who took me to her prom. I was into girls from an early age. Surprisingly enough, I never mentioned group sex or threesomes. It was my wife who accepted an invitation to our first wife swap. It was my wife who asked her girlfriends to join us in bed and it was my wife who set me up with her girlfriend to take off some of the sex load from her. 

Sounds crazy. I know because while it was happening it was just my normal life. When we became monogamous it hit me that what we had was amazing but very different than most folk. Another fun fact that I did not realize until just last year is that all four of my relationships since the age of 15 are bisexual and I did not know that at the time we started the relationship. Seems that my poly ways attracted women who also liked women. It is a curse I had to bear. 

Seriously though, explore options with your wife. I do not like open relationships because one or both of the spouses usually end up leaving to marry someone else. Just try to find an old and long time married couple in an open relationship. They are as rare as hen's teeth. What we did was stick to friends and others that we knew and were comfortable with. A threesome with ground rules may work. We did some soft swinging which is foreplay with someone else but the main event is with your spouse. That really strokes the ego and yet is in a gray area as far as not being monogamous. I can tell you one thing. Sex with my wife was very intense for weeks after we had sex with others. It was like throwing fuel on the fire. Not for the jealous or insecure though. That will kill a marriage quickly. Our girlfriend got married after living with us for 7 years and found a husband who was OK with her continuing her relationships with us. She split her time between her husband and us. It was good for her because she had a beta husband at home who cleaned the house and made money and she was free to have sex with alpha males. The bet of both worlds. Most never see the other world of marriage that colors outside the lines. Once aware of it we found it every place we moved to and were always surprised at who was into it. I am in a retirement community and they have a wife swap and swingers club here where 60-80 year olds play. Do whatever you and your wife can work out. Start off slowly and carefully. Some are thinking that is terrible but when the other choice is cheating, playing with others with your wife is a better option. Of course you can end up as one of the 50% of married couples who divorce. Most of those who did not agree with our lifestyle are divorced with some more than once or twice. We just celebrated our 44th wedding anniversary so obviously we chose a marriage that worked for us. It does not work for most though and is seen as immoral by many. Yet I am not posting about a cheating wife or husband as so many do online.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> I understand about being desired by other women. Our solution is far out there but my wife and I agree that if we tried to be monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. My wife knew of my reputation for having multiple girlfriends at the same time and that after being cheated on by my ex fiancee, my one attempt at monogamy failed. My wife took the lead and started to ask her visiting girlfriends to join us in bed. At the time I did not know that my wife was fantasizing about women. Eventually we ended up in a 30 year poly triad with her best friend who we both loved.
> 
> We also did a little bit of groups sex and wife swapping so that my wife could experience sex with someone other than me since she was a virgin when we married. I involvement in group sex was an eye opener to how many of our neighbors and friends were into it. Mothers of three, scientist and even a doctor living in our development. However, after seeing then divorce one by one we stopped playing with others and stuck to just the three of us. Six years ago we became monogamous and it took a few years to adjust to it.
> 
> ...


I'm not implying negative judgment on that, I just don't know if that's for me. I mean, yes, I want passionate, intense sex, but I want it from the person I'm emotionally bonded to. Sex for the sake of sex becomes shallow and doesn't scratch my itch. It's similar to using my hand to some extent. Sure, I have the physical release but there was no emotional connection. I'm after the emotional with the physical. Now, could I achieve that by adding new partners? Possibly at some point, but knowing my wife it would severely mess with her head eventually. I'm just at such a loss. I have so much to be thankful for in life. People even say they'd kill for my life(especially for my wife's), yet here I sit feeling cheated. I'm not after a pity party. Just maybe venting a bit.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your wife feel that she lacks passion? Or is this your interpretation that does not match her's??


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence* by Esther Perel

"A New York City therapist examines the paradoxical relationship between domesticity and sexual desire and explains what it takes to bring lust home.
One of the world’s most respected voices on erotic intelligence, Esther Perel offers a bold, provocative new take on intimacy and sex. Mating in Captivity invites us to explore the paradoxical union of domesticity and sexual desire, and explains what it takes to bring lust home.
Drawing on more than twenty years of experience as a couples therapist, Perel examines the complexities of sustaining desire. Through case studies and lively discussion, Perel demonstrates how more exciting, playful, and even poetic sex is possible in long-term relationships. Wise, witty, and as revelatory as it is straightforward, Mating in Captivity is a sensational book that will transform the way you live and love."


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife feel that she lacks passion? Or is this your interpretation that does not match her's??


Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rasputin said:


> Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.


None of us here know exact what's going on. It could be many things.

I could be that her normal state is passionless. Or it could be that you completely do not understand her and/or look at her through your own critical lens. You need to do some work to figure this out.

Most people who appear to be low drive, are not. The problem is that their spouse and/or the relationship does not inspire passion in them. Add to that, that many women have responsive sex drives. It sounds like your wife might. They respond to their partner's desire for them. It's not something that they can change really. If your wife is like that, your complaining over and over to her that she's not like what you want her to be like is only going to drive her to have even less sex drive.

That's why I suggested the book. I think, from what you have written here, that it's what you need.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Rasputin said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.
> ...


I'll check it out. Thanks.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rasputin said:


> I'll check it out. Thanks.


There is more that you can do. Since you are here, you are the one who will need to lead the inspiration in your relationship. After all, we cannot suggest anything to your wife.

Let up know how it goes.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rasputin said:


> It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.


OK @Rasputin assume this is true and that she is using sex as a weapon and that she has determined that it is the ultimate way to control/punish you.

Think of initiating sex like being an elite member of a bomb squad that must defuse an intricate bomb with "booby" traps. The bomb can be triggered in many unknown ways. The payload is that she releases a lifeless starfish. How do you defuse it?

STEP 1: Designate a safe place to detonate this bomb, generally speaking you anticipate the outcome and emotionally brace yourself to stay in a good mood.

STEP 2: DO NOT allow the lifeless starfish to control or punish you. Instead reverse roles and make it fun by putting some "sprinkles" onto your situation!










...an example might be dressing your wife up in something super sexy! 

STEP 3: Have a playful tickle fight (get her smiling, laughing, and moving).

STEP 4: Defend yourself with whip cream hidden under your pillow when she tries to tickle you back!










..OK, you still with me?

STEP 5: (most critical step) Buy some googly eyes and eyebomb your privates, her butt, her boobs and whatever you want!



















STEP 6: ENJOY the most freaky sex you could ever imagine!

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## doheryourway (Mar 13, 2017)

Of course, one of the problems could be medication - antidepressants or tranquilizers, but there are additional factors that can seriously decrease her sexual drive.

The problem could be that your wife isn’t aroused by the type of sex you both have.

1) Your aren’t doing to her the things what you really want. By example, maybe you deep inside of you want to have rough sex with her, but in reality you act like nice guy and subconsciously she feels it I know, for most men, it is difficult to act roughly to woman he loves (or is in brand new relationships), but if those are your real sexual desires, you should follow them to have great sex.

or 

2) You are not doing to her the things that she really likes, but at the same time, she is too shy to tell you what she really wants. By example, maybe you are one of those guys who doesn't do cunnilingus, but she is too shy to ask for it. Or she fantasizes about rough sex, but thinks if she will ask for it, then you will perceive her as a w***e.

All these are the first guesses, but in context of above mentioned point Nr.2, I really invite you to deeply analyze the following two your own phrases - "I 'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring..”…….……… “We've has the tough talk where I laid it out and things improved...briefly. They only improve when I get angry. Waiting until I'm angry is such an awful tactic (and I've told her this)”. 

If I understand correctly, you are a nice guy, who loves his wife, who respects her etc. And it seems that your main mistake is that you are trying to be romantic also during sex. But “nice sex” usually is synonym to “boring sex”, because all the romantic things must be before and after sex, not during it. Love & sex are two completely different concepts and energies. Unfortunately, due to the massive brainwashing in our culture, many people use both these concepts together, and then wonder why their sexual life is deeply unsatisfying.

The other thing you could do - is to invite your wife to take real sexual initiative in sex – you can both agree that she can do what she really wants and ask from you everything that really arouses her, but you have to promise her that you won’t condemn none of her desires….


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape.
> Well, that's good.
> 
> I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hyper stability is the enemy of passion. 

Being too present - too predictable etc. while nice - is not appealing. 





Rasputin said:


> I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
> Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
> Any advice is appreciated.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Rasputin said:


> Well, I remember her commenting once about how "no one wants to make love to a dead fish. That's awful" and I wanted to say "that's how you are." So I'd say maybe she's a bit unaware of the extent? That would have been completely unhelpful but she knows and admits she lacks passion. However, there was one period where I was very seriously pushing divorce and suddenly she "found" it. The kissing, grabbing...just passionate sexual movement in general. I'll admit, this has been thrown in her face. She can't tell me she doesn't have it when she demonstrated it repeatedly when she wanted me to stay. It's as if she chooses to use sex as a weapon.


She may have really had it during that time or she may have been faking it because she thought you would divorce her (and it went away once she felt you wouldn't). Did she say it was real and, if so, why did she say it didn't last? Or does she not discuss it at all?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> I am in a retirement community and they have a wife swap and swingers club here where 60-80 year olds play.


That is just 14 layers of wrong.

And unfortunately for me, there isn't enough brain bleach in my state to now erase this image. Thanks a lot.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> I'd consider myself to have an average sex drive. By average, I mean twice a week would be great, normally. However, whenever I'm weightlifting, my T skyrockets. This compounds the misery of my wife having low to no drive. She's tried to fix it and I've tried to take the edge off myself but this has gone on for many years. I appreciate her effort but even without the elevated T levels I was unhappy. It's about once a month, which is better than nothing, but it completely lacks passion and feels forced when it does happen. I am SOOO not into something that feels like rape. She gets off, several times, but it's so void of passion. I feel like we've tried everything over the course of many years but it's just not improving. I'm at such a loss. She's not choosing this but neither am I. I really don't know what my specific question is other than....help?
> Call me what you will but I'm honestly concerned about being unfaithful. Telling her this would be incredibly unhelpful for obvious reasons. I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone. The situation has arisen in the most unlikely ways and I've always shut it down. I try not to put myself in such a predicament. However, to be desired and then go home to someone who makes you feel like you're hideous....it's painfully frustrating. I don't get my self-esteem from the acceptance of others, but you have to admit this would mess with your head after a while.
> Any advice is appreciated.


What was your sexual relationship like at the very beginning?


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That is just 14 layers of wrong.
> 
> And unfortunately for me, there isn't enough brain bleach in my state to now erase this image. Thanks a lot.


Wait till you get old and are without a partner before you judge.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> She's seen a doctor a few times. Hormones are ok, apparently. She did have issues with depression but not for quite a while as far as I know. Regardless during those time and now, nothing is different. We've has the tough talk where I laid it out and things improved...briefly. They only improve when I get angry. Waiting until I'm angry is such an awful tactic(and I've told her this).
> My timeline? I would have told you we crossed it years ago. I just refuse to be without my kids. We all know fathers lose out. Even part-time parenting doesn't work for me. My kids are my raison d'etre, my everything. However, being this frustrated and miserable doesn't set a good example for them.


How old are your children?


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> I initiate 99% of the nonsexual intimacy. I'm very much a loving person and touch is my love language. Closeness. Caring. She's so non-intimate that I feel like the nurturing female of the relationship, whether it be with her or the kids. She will at times initiate but it's because I've reminded her that we relate like roommates and I refuse to be married to a roommate.
> I continue to do all those things you mentioned.


I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Be honest about it.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> I'm not seeking it out but it's intoxicating to be desired by someone.
> By whom? Another woman at the gym? Red flag.....
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

So I’ve been away for some time. 

Jessica...You should know that my home is big enough to where I have the gym...at home. I’m sorry I can’t stop going to the grocery store, the park, my job, or out in public in general so I can “shut this down” properly like you say I’m not doing. I HAVE taken steps that I can control. For many years now I’ve made it a rule that I pretty much do not associate with neighbor wives or wives of friends in anything but the most unapproachable manner. Off-putting and cold. I feel like such a d!ck but I have to. It’s not the person I am but I’ve had to do it because in the past I had a rash of these wives make open, blatant sexual advances. I’m talking being flashed, groped, told in graphic detail what they want to do to me, asking to come over when they knew my wife was gone, etc. To say I’m jaded about the fidelity of females in marriage would be an understatement. I had to tell them to stop and I had to hide. Only to then sit at home in my sex-deprived marriage. Tell me how that wouldn’t be utterly frustrating. Tell me how it wouldn’t be intoxicating to feel wanted, to feel raw passion, when the only person you’re allowed to be intimate with makes you feel repulsive. I appreciate your attempt to help but it feels like you’re blaming me for attracting the attention. #metoo, I guess. 

So yeah, I’m back because this rollercoaster ride is at a low again. I just took her on an amazing vacation that extremely few get to experience...and I didn’t even get a hug. I’ve taken all the steps and advice here and, well, she’s simply dead inside if you ask me. I’ve spoiled her from the beginning and I feel that’s simply created an ungrateful monster. I think my giving has trained her to believe that I don’t respect myself, which in turn has lost all her respect for me and, in turn, killed what remained of her low sex drive. What a sick, cruel world.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Openminded said:


> She may have really had it during that time or she may have been faking it because she thought you would divorce her (and it went away once she felt you wouldn't). Did she say it was real and, if so, why did she say it didn't last? Or does she not discuss it at all?


Each time she’s refused to even address it. I’m met with silence.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

urf said:


> How old are your children?


They’re not toddlers, if that’s what you’re getting at. The youngest is just shy of double digits.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

urf said:


> I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Be honest about it.


This almost feels confrontational or accusatory. If so, you should know there’s not a one-size-fits-all for peoples’ behavior. Sometimes people are just sh!tty people. I know enough good people getting a raw deal in their relationship. Do you wait for the other shoe to drop when a loving wife is cheated on by her pig of a husband? Be honest.


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## Gallop77 (Dec 6, 2017)

Do not cheat. I have been in the same situation with my husband. He had supposedly only online affairs. I have chosen to stay in the relationship but am seriously debating divorce now. Have that talk. Talk about how you feel and why. Tell her that you need to feel desired and that it is causing you to think of leaving your marriage. I would rather my husband had told me he was going to cheat. I would have some resentment for him saying maybe but it would have been a wakeup call


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## Gallop77 (Dec 6, 2017)

OK after reading the latest responses. Think about what brought you to together to begin with. Was she always this hands off and "cold". Something has changed somewhere if she was not. You need to find out what that is. For me it was loneliness and starting to lack self esteem. Therapy for her. Demand it. It helped us out until now when we have reversedecided roles


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Gallop77 said:


> OK after reading the latest responses. Think about what brought you to together to begin with. Was she always this hands off and "cold". Something has changed somewhere if she was not. You need to find out what that is. For me it was loneliness and starting to lack self esteem. Therapy for her. Demand it. It helped us out until now when we have reversedecided roles


She changed the day we said “I do”. I’ve had glimpses of the person I married, but it’s rare. I have demanded counseling but she’d change for a bit and I’d back off on the demand. Now I’ve decided I’ll be going by myself. 

I’ve never cheated. I know myself and know the guilt alone would crush me, no matter how “justified” I’d feel in it.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You are being used for your money. You can pay a bunch now to get rid of her or pay a bit every year for the rest of your life. Your choice how long you allow this to continue. The longer the marriage, the more she gets in alimony / maintenance. The sooner you act, the shorter the period of time you pay after she is gone.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

There’s nothing that kills a woman’s attraction to her husband more than not feeling safe in her marriage. 

Sorry, I’m not buying that any husband is so irresistible that other women are continually propositioning him everywhere he goes, including the grocery store, without some invitation/attention from him. 

Maybe your wife has had enough of the flirting with other women and is shutting down emotionally to protect herself?


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> There’s nothing that kills a woman’s attraction to her husband more than not feeling safe in her marriage.
> 
> Sorry, I’m not buying that any husband is so irresistible that other women are continually propositioning him everywhere he goes, including the grocery store, without some invitation/attention from him.
> 
> Maybe your wife has had enough of the flirting with other women and is shutting down emotionally to protect herself?


You're looking at life through your own prism and assuming everyone is just like you. I'm not flirting and I wouldn't say I'm _continually_ propositioned. What I am saying is it has happened in various locations that are generally not places people go to meet others. So hiding from women or taking my wife everywhere is not realistic. That's what I'm saying. 

I will say though...I have worked with a guy who was a very good looking guy. We're talking tall, ripped, perfectly coiffed hair, style, money, etc. Yes, I witnessed ladies obsessively proposition him so I firmly believe there are men that get propositioned exactly the way you say isn't possible. It's just that YOU don't do that, and that's fine. That's the thing. We're all different. You CANNOT apply a one-size-fits-all viewpoint to how people behave. You just can't.


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## Gallop77 (Dec 6, 2017)

She changed the day we said “I do”. I’ve had glimpses of the person I married, but it’s rare. I have demanded counseling but she’d change for a bit and I’d back off on the demand. Now I’ve decided I’ll be going by myself. 
I’ve never cheated. I know myself and know the guilt alone would crush me, no matter how “justified” I’d feel in it.


It's good that you go. Seriously it's so nice to talk with out being judged and it can help you find the best answer.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

[/QUOTE]I’m sorry I can’t stop going to the grocery store, the park, my job, or out in public in general so I can “shut this down” properly like you say I’m not doing. I HAVE taken steps that I can control. For many years now I’ve made it a rule that I pretty much do not associate with neighbor wives or wives of friends in anything but the most unapproachable manner. Off-putting and cold. I feel like such a d!ck but I have to. It’s not the person I am but I’ve had to do it because in the past I had a rash of these wives make open, blatant sexual advances. I’m talking being flashed, groped, told in graphic detail what they want to do to me, asking to come over when they knew my wife was gone, etc.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying you still see these women who obviously have no respect for your marriage? Out of respect for your wife, I’d recommend eliminating all contact with people who sound pretty low class to be behaving this way toward a married man.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sincere question here - does your wife actually care what you do as long as you pay the bills and put food on the table?

I'm not saying that gives you licence to cheat, but if all she cares about is the money and support and help with the kids. Then it really doesn't matter what you do because even if you divorce you will still have a child custodial arrangment and possibly child support and spousal support anyway if she doesn't work outside the home.

If she really doesn't care what you do with yourself, then you need to sit down with a lawyer and find out what your rights and responsibilities are if you split and what would happen legally/financially if you did get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> Are you saying you still see these women who obviously have no respect for your marriage? Out of respect for your wife, I’d recommend eliminating all contact with people who sound pretty low class to be behaving this way toward a married man.


It’s not the same women since I’ve set large barriers for women that I see often. Just as men hit on women, women hit on men. Invited or not. Ring or not, my hand or theirs. I think you’re being naive to just how “low class” some people are these days. I’m not saying that to insult you. I feel either women have become more assertive or my staying fit is separating me from the rest of my age group. I believe it’s the former.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Sincere question here - does your wife actually care what you do as long as you pay the bills and put food on the table?
> 
> I'm not saying that gives you licence to cheat, but if all she cares about is the money and support and help with the kids. Then it really doesn't matter what you do because even if you divorce you will still have a child custodial arrangment and possibly child support and spousal support anyway if she doesn't work outside the home.
> 
> If she really doesn't care what you do with yourself, then you need to sit down with a lawyer and find out what your rights and responsibilities are if you split and what would happen legally/financially if you did get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.


I feel like she sees me as a bank account but she says she doesn’t. I won’t cheat though. As fun as the temporary physical pleasure would be, the long term agony of guilt would destroy me. Even if she permitted it, I couldn’t.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

I can related somewhat to what you are going through and it does feel bad.

Of course your wife won't tell you that you are only a bank account, even if she could admit it to herself.

Her actions are speaking louder than words though.

Here is a hypothetical question for you. If for some reason you could not work and the dollars did not roll in like it used to BUT your wife could have it all back by snuggling up to some other guy....could/would she?

I mean not cheating but if she could regain the lifestyle to which she is used to and it only cost her some physical interactions with "anybody" can she turn it on or is it really an issue to deal with.


Good luck.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> It’s not the same women since I’ve set large barriers for women that I see often. Just as men hit on women, women hit on men. Invited or not. Ring or not, my hand or theirs. I think you’re being naive to just how “low class” some people are these days. I’m not saying that to insult you. I feel either women have become more assertive or my staying fit is separating me from the rest of my age group. I believe it’s the former.


Still not buying it. My husband and I both workout daily, are very physically fit, and spend time with many other couples who are into athletics and sports and no one has ever groped, flashed, or aggressively tried to proposition either of us. 

I’d find that hugely insulting and I’d stop contact with those people immediately.

It’s insulting to your wife to have friends who disrespect your marriage and for you to brush it off as a symptom of being “fit.” 

Something you’re doing is upsetting your wife. You can be naive and assume you have no control over this, but reading above I can see where she likely feels disrespected by the people you surround yourself with, who do seem very low class to me.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Noble1 said:


> Here is a hypothetical question for you. If for some reason you could not work and the dollars did not roll in like it used to BUT your wife could have it all back by snuggling up to some other guy....could/would she?


Edit: No, I don't think she would. If anything, the money wouldn't be the draw. When I'm stressed out I'm hard to love so it'd be me driving her away.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> Still not buying it. My husband and I both workout daily, are very physically fit, and spend time with many other couples who are into athletics and sports and no one has ever groped, flashed, or aggressively tried to proposition either of us.
> 
> I’d find that hugely insulting and I’d stop contact with those people immediately.
> 
> ...


Holy canoly... I pity your husband. You can be told the same story 100 times but you keep hearing your version of reality and you keep fighting. Ugh. I told them(as in the women I/we knew) to stop and basically hid. As in I cut off all contact with them and avoided any interaction whatsoever. If they came over to another neighbor’s home, I left. I can’t pick my neighbors. In subsequent neighborhoods, I preemptively avoided the females because of past problems. No friend requests, no allowing them my number to coordinate the kids, etc. I stayed 100% out of anything that could open the door. Pretty disrespectful huh?!? The others that have hit on me were people I didn’t know, didn’t associate with, didn’t mingle, whatever. In public for Christ sake. Just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Edit: I just looked over my responses to you again. You fail miserably at reading comprehension. I won't respond to another victim blaming-esque post from you. Read slowly.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> I feel like she sees me as a bank account but she says she doesn’t. I won’t cheat though. As fun as the temporary physical pleasure would be, the long term agony of guilt would destroy me. Even if she permitted it, I couldn’t.


It's not really about cheating and that's not what I am talking about. 

I am saying if she really doesn't have any feelings for you other than financial security, child care assistance and status quo, then it really doesn't matter what you do, it's all going to come out in the wash anyway. 

If you were to divorce, I am assuming you would still be an active and involved father. 

You would still be legally bound to provide your fair share of child rearing and support whether that be through equal, joint custody or through child support. 

And if she doesn't currently have an outside source of income and no formal job training, you may have to provide a certain amount of spousal support for certain period of time. 

In other words, if you are bank account to her, you are still a bank account whether in marriage or in divorce - ergo, do whatever you want and whatever works out the best for you. She gets hers either way. 

It boils down to what do you want out of life. Are you cool with living as roommates and coparents and spanking to porn and dreaming "what if" every time one of these women bats her eyes at you or hits on you? 

Or is the pain of living in a loveless, passionless, sexless marriage outweighing your fear of the unknown and your fear of rocking the boat?

Yes, a divorce will cost you some lawyer fees, court costs and you'll have to divvy up the furniture and such - but you are already paying for child rearing and for supporting a spouse if she doesn't work etc anyway. 

It's all in what you are wanting to do with your life vs what you are willing to endure. 

My suggestion is see a lawyer and have him/her lay out exactly what your rights and responsibilities are in a divorce and exactly what the costs of staying vs the costs of leaving really are.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Jessica38 said:


> Still not buying it. My husband and I both workout daily, are very physically fit, and spend time with many other couples who are into athletics and sports and no one has ever groped, flashed, or aggressively tried to proposition either of us.
> 
> I’d find that hugely insulting and I’d stop contact with those people immediately.
> 
> ...


Next time you are in line at a buffet, take a look at the other people standing in line to waiting to get in and get their food. 

I betcha a whole dollar that you will be able to tell which ones are starving and which ones ate fairly recently but are either there will friends or are just stopping off there because it's quick and they weren't in the mood for McDonald's. 

I'll bet you a whole other dollar that if you go there when you are starving and haven't eaten all day, you will be better able to pick out the starving people even better. 

You will be able to see who is really hungry and who is really anxious to through the line and get their food even though they are still waiting in line and aren't doing anything impolite or inappropriate and even though they are minding their manners in the restaurant. 

Hungry people can pick another hungry person out of the crowd. That doesn't mean that that person is doing anything inappropriate or intentionally doing anything to draw attention to their hunger. 

Maybe he does have some kind of hungry look or giving off some kind of hungry vibe or something. That doesn't mean his is flirting with these chicks or hitting on them or unzipping his fly or anything. If they are perceptive enough to pick up on his hunger and they are choosing to act on it and take a shot at it, that is on them. It's not necessarily anything he is intentionally doing to draw attention to himself. 

And some people just naturally appear more inviting and welcoming than others. 

All we have is his word to go on and perhaps he is simply lying through his teeth, but until we can show otherwise, let's believe his steadfast assertion that he is not intentionally flirting these chicks up and trying to get them into bed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

....And just FYI, I am 54 years old, shaved bald, a bit of a pot belly, dress in very casual and comfortable clothes, and am not all that outgoing and sociable...... and I have been flirted with and given the eye and had some pretty blatant innuendos thrown my way. 

Not every day and not every woman, but it does happen. People flirt with each other. Sometimes chicks flirt and even c'mon pretty strong just to stoke their own egos and get attention for themselves even if they have no intention of taking things any further than getting a reaction out of some guy.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> It's not really about cheating and that's not what I am talking about.
> 
> I am saying if she really doesn't have any feelings for you other than financial security, child care assistance and status quo, then it really doesn't matter what you do, it's all going to come out in the wash anyway.
> 
> ...


I see what you’re saying now. My problem right now is that I have to tell myself she won’t change. That we will keep coming right back to the misery like we do every time. I have more options to pursue(not other women, Jessica), so I’m not giving up just yet. I’m just not hopeful. Maybe that’s the best place to be because if you’re too hopeful and it doesn’t meet your expectations, it hurts a lot.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> ....And just FYI, I am 54 years old, shaved bald, a bit of a pot belly, dress in very casual and comfortable clothes, and am not all that outgoing and sociable...... and I have been flirted with and given the eye and had some pretty blatant innuendos thrown my way.
> 
> Not every day and not every woman, but it does happen. People flirt with each other. Sometimes chicks flirt and even c'mon pretty strong just to stoke their own egos and get attention for themselves even if they have no intention of taking things any further than getting a reaction out of some guy.


If by flirting you mean groping and flashing you in the buffet line while whispering in your ear about the sexual things she’d like to do to you later, I’d suggest finding a new Olive Garden to frequent...


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Next time you are in line at a buffet, take a look at the other people standing in line to waiting to get in and get their food.
> 
> I betcha a whole dollar that you will be able to tell which ones are starving and which ones ate fairly recently but are either there will friends or are just stopping off there because it's quick and they weren't in the mood for McDonald's.
> 
> ...


Nope, I’m pretty sure he’s lying through his teeth. I don’t believe for a second that he’s innocently picking up groceries and women are throwing themselves at him everywhere he goes. And I’ll repeat: It’s very low class for a woman to behave the way he’s describing toward a married man unless he’s giving clear signs that he’s open for business. 

I can fully understand why his wife isn’t into having sex with him.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> Nope, I’m pretty sure he’s lying through his teeth. I don’t believe for a second that he’s innocently picking up groceries and women are throwing themselves at him everywhere he goes.
> 
> I can fully understand why his wife isn’t into having sex with him.


Lmao. Now it’s just funny. I’m sorry you’ve never been hit on by a stranger in public. No amount of working out fixes that problem. 

I never once said people are falling all over me everywhere. I made comment that it happens and that it’s frustrating when it does. Why would I lie about this? Holy thread drift to interject your absurd judgment. Quick question, how involved are you with your church?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

We can definitely see these women making sexual advances toward you everywhere you go isn’t for your personality!

My point- YES some women are thirsty. But most women do not run up to married men and make sexual advances unless those men are advertising that they’re open for business. 

Of course it feels great to get compliments, but what you’re describing are inappropriate sexual advances that are extremely disrespectful to your wife and marriage. 

So maybe ask yourself if you’re giving off those signals and if that could be hurting your wife? Or, like I said, it could just be that the women groping, flashing, and sex-talking are doing so unprovoked, in which case they’re not just thirsty- they’re desperate. No matter how fit a guy is.


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## Rasputin (Jul 26, 2015)

Jessica38 said:


> We can definitely see these women making sexual advances toward you everywhere you go isn’t for your personality!
> 
> My point- YES some women are thirsty. But most women do not run up to married men and make sexual advances unless those men are advertising that they’re open for business.
> 
> So maybe ask yourself if you’re giving off those signals and if that could be hurting your wife? Or, like I said, it could just be that the women groping, flashing, and sex-talking are doing so unprovoked, in which case they’re not just thirsty- they’re desperate. No matter how fit a guy is.


Right, you insinuate my situation is because I’m a habitual philanderer, call me a liar(for reasons I can’t explain), all because of a comprehension failure that you refuse to admit, and I’m the one with the sh!tty personality. 

I never said ALL women do anything. You did. I never said this happens every time I step out of my door. You did. You’re reading sh!t that isn’t even there. I never denied these women may simply be thirsty and would mount a street pole if they could. It’s possible. What I DID say is they HAVE made advances on me and having someone show interest in me is difficult to deal with with a LD wife. What I DID say is I cut off contact with the ones that I knew. What I DID say is I was more cautious later on to avoid these problems. All the things I DID say, you didn’t bother to read. That’s on you and you’re just embarrassing yourself with this little crusade.

Your one valid statement...could I be giving off signals? I don’t believe I am but it’s possible I’m misunderstood. I have a warm, friendly personality(shocker, I know). That could maybe be mistaken for flirtation but that’s their problem, not mine. I refuse to be yet another a$$hole on this planet. If I can brighten one person’s day with a joke or a simple acknowledgment of their existence...great. This behavior is not gender specific. Btw, the come ons were generally not started by me doing anything. Actually, I’ve found the less attention you pay to women, the more they pay to you. Except my wife. Haha

Now that I think of it, it was just the other day a male was hitting on me quite hard while he was working. I mean he laid it on thick. I thanked him for his compliments, gave my marital status, and joked with him while I waited(because why crush a human with feelings by being a jerk?) I most certainly am not gay so what signal was I giving there? What disrespect was I showing my wife by...wait for it...standing there looking at my phone before he made a pass? This stuff happens.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> I see what you’re saying now. My problem right now is that I have to tell myself she won’t change. That we will keep coming right back to the misery like we do every time. I have more options to pursue(not other women, Jessica), so I’m not giving up just yet. I’m just not hopeful. Maybe that’s the best place to be because if you’re too hopeful and it doesn’t meet your expectations, it hurts a lot.


If you think there are some stones left unturned that may help, then go ahead and try it to the best of your ability. 

Something may be the key that unlocks it. And even if it doesn't, that may let you sleep at night knowing that you did everything you could. 

If you do everything humanly possible to fix it and it doesn't do anything, then you know it's on her and there simply isn't anything else that you can do.


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## Kammy (Dec 5, 2017)

Rasputin said:


> Right, you insinuate my situation is because I’m a habitual philanderer, call me a liar(for reasons I can’t explain), all because of a comprehension failure that you refuse to admit, and I’m the one with the sh!tty personality.
> 
> I never said ALL women do anything. You did. I never said this happens every time I step out of my door. You did. You’re reading sh!t that isn’t even there. I never denied these women may simply be thirsty and would mount a street pole if they could. It’s possible. What I DID say is they HAVE made advances on me and having someone show interest in me is difficult to deal with with a LD wife. What I DID say is I cut off contact with the ones that I knew. What I DID say is I was more cautious later on to avoid these problems. All the things I DID say, you didn’t bother to read. That’s on you and you’re just embarrassing yourself with this little crusade.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bother replying to someone who is obviously bitter about some things that have happened to her in the past. Her posts are dripping with venom for no reason, just ignore!

Reading this forum has opened my eyes to how bad some men have it and I can't imagine being in your shoes. I am a woman who is very much into pleasing my partner and I was once with someone who had a porn addiction (unbeknownst to me) and barely touched me in a physical way after the first 2 years. The feeling of rejection from your partner can be debilitating to your ego. I know being in a marriage is different than being in long term relationship so you don't want to give up but you don't want to live the rest of your life in a sexless marriage. I would tell her that you guys need to go to counseling or you're considering divorce. She's withholding physical contact from you, not just sex, which in my opinion is emotional abuse. I'm sorry that you're going through this!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Move out of the bedroom. And let her know that when she wants to connect - she can come to your bed. 

You’ve allowed this situation to develop - by making the choice over and over to try to nice your way to the outcome you want.

And yes - this is a self respect issue more than a wife’s respect issue. That said - it isn’t really clear what your dynamic is. At least not from this thread. 

As to how to approach this - you can be tactical - by moving out the bedroom
Or
Strategic by reworking your finances to produce a good outcome for you when your youngest turns 18 and you leave the marriage. 

That said - be transparent about what you are doing. 




Rasputin said:


> I see what you’re saying now. My problem right now is that I have to tell myself she won’t change. That we will keep coming right back to the misery like we do every time. I have more options to pursue(not other women, Jessica), so I’m not giving up just yet. I’m just not hopeful. Maybe that’s the best place to be because if you’re too hopeful and it doesn’t meet your expectations, it hurts a lot.


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