# Our thoughts on this, Could all the problems be natural



## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Do men want sex more than women?


The driving force behind the sex strike




unherd.com





This article says it has evidence that men naturally like to have sex more than women. The logical end of the argument is the number of marital sex problems that are posted here by men more than by women. 

Is there a cure if these assertions are correct?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

The article fails to explain the phenomenon that sexual tendencies in women fade as the relationship goes on. Some completely fall off a cliff. From a man’s POV, it’s better to stay out of LTR’s and marriages if you are interested in sex.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I was thinking of this the other day...

It seems to me that in the beginning of a relationship, you get the "best" version of a person, where they try really hard to BE what they think their new partner wants (and maybe they even do it unconsciously).

So maybe women don't nag or whine, they want lots of kinky sex, they act more kind or gentle than they normally are, or aren't as critical, etc.
Maybe guys will spend money more freely and won't watch as much TV, listen and share more, won't watch porn and will take more time with sex and make it more loving, etc. 
Those are just stereotypes off the top of my head as examples.

Anyway, after a certain amount of time, the REAL person comes out. So if the sex goes away, it's because you've picked a person who doesn't really like sex - they just PRETENDED to so they could impress you. If they don't really like spending money, THAT will change too...just like being selfish with sex will start to be the norm if a person is really like that too.

Any attempts to change that person back into their new relationship self with all the "Red Pill" / MMGTW-whatever stuff you guys talk about on here, or counseling or threatening to leave, etc etc -- ALL those methods are MANIPULATIONS that only offer a temporary fix, because what you are dealing with is a mismatch between what makes you both happy as your REAL selves.

Also, as manipulation methods, don't they actually block any true connection that you create with that person...? Because you cannot be real with them about what you need and trust that they CARE about that need out of love for you...is it even worth it to play all those games for someone who, at their core, is so selfish and doesn't really care about your feelings?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I was thinking of this the other day...
> 
> It seems to me that in the beginning of a relationship, you get the "best" version of a person, where they try really hard to BE what they think their new partner wants (and maybe they even do it unconsciously).
> 
> ...


RP teaches you to get out before the inevitable turn, not to manipulate anyone during the relationship. Also, it teaches you to spot the red flags before you enter the relationship. The best part of any relationship is the beginning, so have lots of beginnings and be aware when she changes. Because she will _always_ change.

I’m sure the reverse is true for a woman using the examples you pointed out. Yes, people fake who they are in the beginning to a certain extent. We all do. That’s the real manipulation going on.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> RP teaches you to get out before the inevitable turn, not to manipulate anyone during the relationship. Also, it teaches you to spot the red flags before you enter the relationship. The best part of any relationship is the beginning, so have lots of beginnings and be aware when she changes. Because she will _always_ change.
> 
> I’m sure the reverse is true for a woman using the examples you pointed out. Yes, people fake who they are in the beginning to a certain extent. We all do. That’s the real manipulation going on.


Ok, but you didn't address the other part I mentioned - if you are having lots of "beginnings", you aren't forming any real connection with the person you are with...isn't that where true satisfaction really is in having a relationship? 

I mean, ANY relationship is supposed to be about the connection we form with that person, romantic or not...that's the POINT...isn't it?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, but you didn't address the other part I mentioned - if you are having lots of "beginnings", you aren't forming any real connection with the person you are with...isn't that where true satisfaction really is in having a relationship?
> 
> I mean, ANY relationship is supposed to be about the connection we form with that person, romantic or not...that's the POINT...isn't it?


It depends on what sort of “connection” you are looking for? I think this is where the genders split. I don’t need to be with someone for years or even months to build a connection. I think it’s pretty damn easy to spot when things start to turn, and that’s where a hard exit is needed, “connection” established or not. Im not longer hanging around thinking the person will change, or that’s it’s just some phase they’re going through. People will eventually show you their true colors, and if you can’t tolerate it, you don’t.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, but you didn't address the other part I mentioned - if you are having lots of "beginnings", you aren't forming any real connection with the person you are with...isn't that where true satisfaction really is in having a relationship?
> 
> I mean, ANY relationship is supposed to be about the connection we form with that person, romantic or not...that's the POINT...isn't it?


It is with women, not so much with men. We have friends and dogs for that.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> It depends on what sort of “connection” you are looking for? I think this is where the genders split. I don’t need to be with someone for years or even months to build a connection. I think it’s pretty damn easy to spot when things start to turn, and that’s where a hard exit is needed, “connection” established or not. Im not longer hanging around thinking the person will change, or that’s it’s just some phase they’re going through. People will eventually show you their true colors, and if you can’t tolerate it, you don’t.


I suppose you are probably right...maybe...

I don't like that you might be right, though. And I don't know what the alternative would be.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I suppose you are probably right...maybe...
> 
> I don't like that you might be right, though. And I don't know what the alternative would be.


Between the two of us, we have four failed marriages. So at least we know marriage isn’t the answer. 

You may be the first female to ever tell me I was right...sorry, “maybe” right...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Between the two of us, we have four failed marriages. So at least we know marriage isn’t the answer.
> 
> You may be the first female to ever tell me I was right...sorry, “maybe” right...


See...? You can think of women in a new way!!! YAY, You! 

I had to put maybe because I don't believe in absolutes very much, and also because I really really want you to be WRONG...Lol!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One trip to deadbedrooms on Reddit to look at all the women on there with LL SO and it’s clear the issue doesn’t have gender boundaries.

I can only say I fit the stereotype of male who desires sex usually twice a day and have done since I was a teenager. I never grew out of it or had my desire reduce over time. As such it can be quite frustrating to have a wife you find hot who just doesn’t give a crap about sex and rarely if ever thanks about it.

Even though we have made tremendous progress and I don’t get bent out of shape by setbacks it is still frustrating.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In general, "The man has higher libido in two-thirds of cases, according to sex therapists." I think both sexes truly want a strong emotional connection, but that does not necessarily mean that sex follows from that. In fact the lower libido person often avoids emotional connection and affection as they don't want it to proceed to sex. A downward spiral develops. When that happens, it's time to get out, IMO. Any yes, it is easier to get out if you're not married. Marriage can certainly be great (my second truly is, while my first was a sexless disaster), but it's a risk. There are upsides (most of which can be achieved by other legal agreements), but many downsides that may not appear until you want out.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

MaiChi said:


> Do men want sex more than women?
> 
> 
> The driving force behind the sex strike
> ...


I wonder if this is some what linked to the fact that men pretty much always guaranteed to orgasm with sex, where as women that usually more dependent on the guy. Would guys be as interested in sex if the situation was reversed?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MaiChi said:


> Is there a cure if these assertions are correct?


I believe they are correct - there have been enough studies (and a huge amount of anecdotal evidence) to support it. There's nothing to "cure," but relationships can be structured to compensate. However, that would require unconventional structures such as polyamory which is growing in acceptance, but it will be a very long time - if ever - before it's mainstream.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> RP teaches you to get out before the inevitable turn, not to manipulate anyone during the relationship. Also, it teaches you to spot the red flags before you enter the relationship. The best part of any relationship is the beginning, so have lots of beginnings and be aware when she changes. Because she will _always_ change.
> 
> I’m sure the reverse is true for a woman using the examples you pointed out. Yes, people fake who they are in the beginning to a certain extent. We all do. That’s the real manipulation going on.


Are there any statistics on any of this stuff that RP based on? I ask that because of the inevitable turn comment. I'm thinking about my wife and I and our group of close friends. All having been together for 20 plus years I don't think anyone has ever changed dramatically like this statement would assume.

I know I'm lucky but after 25+ years my wife is more into sex now than she was at 19. And I know a lot of women who have said they became more sexual in their late 30s and early 40s. 

But from what I have seen there is nothing in the RP teachings the lends itself to building good LTRs. I think it's better used or meant to ensure you never have a LTR.

I wonder if people were never fake at all in relationships fewer marriages would fail. And probably fewer would ever happen.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MaiChi said:


> Do men want sex more than women?
> 
> 
> The driving force behind the sex strike
> ...


My take is that both men and women can and do love sex, but for men it's a biological impulse, a lot like having a baby is for many women. 

Flame me all you want now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I wonder if this is some what linked to the fact that men pretty much always guaranteed to orgasm with sex, where as women that usually more dependent on the guy. Would guys be as interested in sex if the situation was reversed?


Orgasm does seem to come easier for men.

To add to this, it seems it's harder to turn women on. For men doesn't take much. Just some skin. Lots of women need more then that, particually with long term partners. So it's a lot more work on both the man and the women's part. 

On top of that there has been no attention paid to what does turn a women on. Frankly women's sexual nature has historically been not only avoided but seen as something shameful to discuss. This hurts both women and men.

Most of the time young men (which biologically is the point where most people are at there most sexual) are just clueless. So you often have relationships that for long periods of time, the sex isn't great. I think this can contribute to many women being disinterested.

Then there is the whole meat-head frat boy culture that the media likes to laugh at and celebrate. Let's just say there isn't an emphasis on understanding women's sexual nature.

It also leads to women harshly judging men's.

This is depressing.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> But from what I have seen there is nothing in the RP teachings the lends itself to building good LTRs. I think it's better used or meant to ensure you never have a LTR.


EXACTLY.

Look at all the threads where dudes are on here looking for sex...from their wives. Not a gf, but a wife. They can’t get laid. Some have gone weeks, if not months. Someone on here now doing dishes, vacuuming and cleaning toilets just to get himself some...from his wife. They turn, brother, they all turn.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

I don't know if we're fake in the beginning or we just have a higher desire to please and do for the other. After awhile you get comfortable and the desire fades. Isn't this true in most areas of life? When you start a new job you show up early but after a year you clock in to the minute. Buy a new house and you're excited to clean and paint but after awhile things break and you put it off until later. I think we can change this by seeing love as a verb. I know I feel a much deeper love for my guy when I'm giving him a massage or trying to find the perfect little "for no reason" present when I'm at the store. I always go to sleep feeling more in love when I've done ubexpected extras for him.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> Look at all the threads where dudes are on here looking for sex...from their wives. Not a gf, but a wife. They can’t get laid. Some have gone weeks, if not months. Someone on here now doing dishes, vacuuming and cleaning toilets just to get himself some...from his wife. They turn, brother, they all turn.


I always see these posts and wonder if she just stopped giving up sex or if he stopped treating her in a way that makes her crave him. The stories are always so vague - I've never cheated .and she wont sleep with me. There's just more to it than that. It's that whole comfortable thing again, don't get that comfortable. It's kind of a pretend every date is the first date kinda thing.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Imagirl said:


> I always see these posts and wonder if she just stopped giving up sex or if he stopped treating her in a way that makes her crave him. The stories are always so vague - I've never cheated .and she wont sleep with me. There's just more to it than that. It's that whole comfortable thing again, don't get that comfortable. It's kind of a pretend every date is the first date kinda thing.


I think there is a lot of truth to this. I think a lot of people get complacent and take their SO for granted. Then they wonder where the spark went. It's easier to say they changed than to say I stopped adding fuel to the fire.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

As you can probably imagine, it's of little comfort what statistics say when you are a woman who this keeps happening to. But that is certainly an interesting question to ponder. Thanks for sharing!


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> Look at all the threads where dudes are on here looking for sex...from their wives. Not a gf, but a wife. They can’t get laid. Some have gone weeks, if not months. Someone on here now doing dishes, vacuuming and cleaning toilets just to get himself some...from his wife. They turn, brother, they all turn.


I would love to see a study of some kind that shows info on the guys who buy into the RP stuff. I would guess a very large percentage of them have either 1. Been burned by a wife or girlfriend. or 2. Have never been able to attract women. I think every RP content guy I have seen seems to have their stories of how something bad happened to them.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

What is RP?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Red Pill, What I have been told is it teaches about "the true nature of women". But I have yet to have any follower of the philosophy explain to me what the teachings say that is.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Red Pill, What I have been told is it teaches about "the true nature of women". But I have yet to have any follower of the philosophy explain to me what the teachings say that is.


And these would be the exact people who know the "true" nature of women that's for sure.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> And these would be the exact people who know the "true" nature of women that's for sure.


I'm pretty sure there is a rule that they're not supposed to tell. I have asked point blank and the answer I got is "not what you think it is". Maybe one of the keys to attracting women is being mysterious and they were practicing on me.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

MaiChi said:


> Do men want sex more than women?
> 
> 
> The driving force behind the sex strike
> ...


To answer your question, absolutely there is a cure -- it's called making the needs and desires of your special person, who you've promised to love and care for above all others (even yourself), IMPORTANT to you...enough so that you see it as an honor that they are asking YOU to meet their needs. You CARE about what makes them happy...and it makes YOU happy to give it to them. 

I will never understand why this can be so difficult for some partners in monogamous relationships.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I'm pretty sure there is a rule that they're not supposed to tell. I have asked point blank and the answer I got is "not what you think it is". Maybe one of the keys to attracting women is being mysterious and they were practicing on me.


Hate all you want. It’s been explained enough times on here. The beta simps just can’t understand.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Hate all you want. It’s been explained enough times on here. The beta simps just can’t understand.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Hate all you want. It’s been explained enough times on here. The beta simps just can’t understand.


And one of the more ironic things in the RP culture is a group of guys who found their way into the group by either not being able to get women or were unable to keep a woman run around calling guys who have been able to successfully do both beta simps.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> And one of the more ironic things in the RP culture is a group of guys who found their way into the group by either not being able to get women or were unable to keep a woman run around calling guys who have been able to successfully do both beta simps.


I don’t know about that. I’ve been married twice and currently dating so I don’t have that problem. Like everything, everyone can find a person to fit their argument.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I would love to see a study of some kind that shows info on the guys who buy into the RP stuff. I would guess a very large percentage of them have either 1. Been burned by a wife or girlfriend. or 2. Have never been able to attract women. I think every RP content guy I have seen seems to have their stories of how something bad happened to them.


Oh, definitely. I became RP after my divorce, like lots of men. Even the awkwardest guy can hit the gym, learn some game and attract women. You view women as nothing more than stupid playthings. Eventually in my case, my anger left me, all the RP BS lost meaning and interest and I moved on to greener pastures.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Oh, definitely. I became RP after my divorce, like lots of men. Even the awkwardest guy can hit the gym, learn some game and attract women. You view women as nothing more than stupid playthings. Eventually in my case, my anger left me, all the RP BS lost meaning and interest and I moved on to greener pastures.


I can actually see where after a divorce it would be appealing, and maybe even somewhat healthy if it was a rough situation you need to get over. What concerns me is the fact that young guys are consuming this stuff and it will become the base of their values.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Oh, definitely. I became RP after my divorce, like lots of men. Even the awkwardest guy can hit the gym, learn some game and attract women. You view women as nothing more than stupid playthings. Eventually in my case, my anger left me, all the RP BS lost meaning and interest and I moved on to greener pastures.


I'm going to be an angry divorced WOMAN...is that Pink Pill...??


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I can actually see where after a divorce it would be appealing, and maybe even somewhat healthy if it was a rough situation you need to get over. What concerns me is the fact that young guys are consuming this stuff and it will become the base of their values.


They are consuming this so they DON’T become a divorce statistic.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm going to be an angry divorced WOMAN...is that Pink Pill...??


Get you hair died blue and become a feminist


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I can actually see where after a divorce it would be appealing, and maybe even somewhat healthy if it was a rough situation you need to get over. What concerns me is the fact that young guys are consuming this stuff and it will become the base of their values.


It helped me through a difficult time. I got a gym membership, bought all the Rational Male books and they clicked. Getting women seemed easy. Then after some soul searching, the anger left me and it didn't resonate anymore. I probably held onto the anger past its expiration date.

I don't know about it being bad for young guys. It's always been around in some form or another. I think lots of young guys try to be RP but they aren't angry enough from lack of experience, so they are RP until 'the one' comes along. Then its game over.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> They are consuming this so they DON’T become a divorce statistic.


I think RP is kind of hypocritical. RP is flocked to because men want to get laid. So they learn game. They lift weights. They peacock. All of this in the attempt to get more notches on their belt. But they are doing this all for women. So, is it really RP?

I think MGTOW is the most red pill. You are basically saying FU to all women and checking out of the game. This I think is truly RP.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think RP is kind of hypocritical. RP is flocked to because men want to get laid. So they learn game. They lift weights. They peacock. All of this in the attempt to get more notches on their belt. But they are doing this all for women. So, is it really RP?
> 
> I think MGTOW is the most red pill. You are basically saying FU to all women and checking out of the game. This I think is truly RP.


You’re missing an entire part of the RP doctrine that also teaches men to pursue excellence in their personal and professional lives. It’s not all about chasing skirts, as others here would have you believe.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think RP is kind of hypocritical. RP is flocked to because men want to get laid. So they learn game. They lift weights. They peacock. All of this in the attempt to get more notches on their belt. But they are doing this all for women. So, is it really RP?
> 
> I think MGTOW is the most red pill. You are basically saying FU to all women and checking out of the game. This I think is truly RP.


The way you describe it based on the anger makes it make so much more sense.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’re missing an entire part of the RP doctrine that also teaches men to pursue excellence in their personal and professional lives. It’s not all about chasing skirts, as others here would have you believe.


I think that stuff (pursuing excellence) is very good and can be infinitely valuable but thats not an exclusively RP thing that kind of self help has been around forever and some people have it simply baked into them.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Imagirl said:


> What is RP?


If I 'm not mistaken RP- Red Pill google it.

If there is something that I have learned in life is that human behavior is basically two dimensional as far as sex is involved (or tri-dimensional when mental illness is involved).
1. Biological. At its basis, the most powerful instinctive push that all living thing experience is "survival of the species". It doesn't matter if you believe or not, because is not a matter of belief, it's a biological fact, just like 1+1=2. 
2. your particular (unique) set of hormonal development/levels (per your DNA) as you growth and get older, inhibited or not to various degrees by your cultural development.
3. And the effect (low/high and drugs) of mental illness on the libido. This is a third dimension that is not within the "normal" biological/cultural human responses, but it fluctuates, depending on the type/degree of mental illness.

Having said that. Biologically/culturally, women are the ones the bear the brunt (physically/hormonally/emotionally) of producing progeny. Always been, always will be in average. But, you've all read above where the male is the one that carry the brunt, but is not by a large the majority. 

If you were to seriously study the major anthropological studies on today's and previous 100 to 300 years of so called "primitive societies", e.g., Amazon indigenous tribes, and you see their division of labor by sex (all geared to survival of the individual (first), and the insurance of survival and continuation of the species (second), you'll find out that overall, these societies, have so many less couple/partner problems that any so called "civilized" societies. Why is that, when they are more at risk during childbirth, or surviving long enough to get to be old enough to procreate?

The answer is simply enough: "what really matters is" survival ", both sexes perform instinctively, logically, and individually to ensure that the harmony needed for the couple to survive and procreate successfully until the progeny is old enough to defend by themselves. Regardless of how primitive their ways might seen to us "civilized" folks. That's because their way of life is harsh, much, much, harsher than most of all are used to, or care to know.

Which brings to the OP original question :*Could all the problems be natural?*
Well, this is a loaded gun to face because there is not one single answer to it. The permutations in today's "primitive" or modern societies is a mixed bag of who you mate with, how willing you were to mate with this individual, how physically (visual), chemically (pheromones), culturally (what's acceptable within your social group), psychologically (how high/low you think of yourself), how high/low, economically/socially you are, your hormonal make up, etc., and finally, after all these components/investments that got you into this relationship over time, how the relationship develops. This in average will tell you how successful the union will be (No wonder why the rate of divorce). 

Folks, please, get it in your heads, WE as a species are not monogamous, if we were, we wouldn't be talking about humans cheating. It is a biological drive to mate with as many as possible in order to produce a diverse gene pool as possible. All of these refrained with societal/cultural constrains. Its a continual struggle that only a percentage of the population achieve. Most human cheat, period.

Women in average, historically, has always have the most to lose in a relationship; even in today's standards where the woman is the bread winner, it stills fall on her to care and provide more than her male counterpart (within averages, exceptions are always there). Physiologically, mentally, culturally, regardless of the woman status, the woman looks up to her male as the one that is suppose to be strong, to provide, to show her that "he's the man". We see it here all the time: men coming here to complain about their wife wanting or leaving them when they (males) are the SAHM); man, so many times the first thing I can guess out these posters before they even mentioned it, is that they are SAHM). Not to say that there are actually women that are not OK with that in the long run, but most of then in the long run do not. They lose respect for their man; henceforth (cheating, wanting to be with another more attractive male, etc.). Moreover females more than males in average suffer more drastic hormonal changes than males do, specially after childbearing, or childbearing years weans as menopause onsets.
Since in today's world females don't have to worry as much as females in the past as a result as birth control, women have more and more control of their destiny. And when in a relationship, as all of the previous mentioned three dimensional roles manifest in a more individualistic manifestation: *they do chose sexually how to respond to their partner. * 
Males in the other hand, due to women in today's societies being economically equal, or making more than the male, or less (it doesn't matter in average). Males not being as exposed to females since childhood, a big percentage of males being raise in a female only household (no father or male role), schools feminist propaganda, males not being challenge or sufficiently exposed to circumstances to teach them to be assertive, strong, confident, shows in the end a product of new batches of males that don't know how to interact, and maintain their appeal to their partner. Here is where all this myriad of biological, emotional, hormonal factors play their role within the sexes with today's increasing percentage of males (and females) not doing what it requires to maintain the relationship in today's modern societies where the survival of the individual or the progeny is not much of a factor. What you want is what drives. Sad, but that's the true, screw everything else. Of course is not everybody, but there's more and more people like that as times goes by. 
And yes, some of the original question is natural biology, but conflagrated with societal tendencies for females to withhold, if that's what they feel/want, and males not being able to maintain their attractiveness to females. Remember: the male pursuits, the female choose (most of the time). Females are a lot more discriminating/critical than males in average when selecting a partner for marriage/union,(but not for raw sex drive), take that to your grave.

Well sorry, I went to far, I think, for the purpose of the OP question/forum.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think that stuff (pursuing excellence) is very good and can be infinitely valuable but thats not an exclusively RP thing that kind of self help has been around forever and some people have it simply baked into them.


Okay, so you don’t give any credit to RP for anything but producing incels that hate women. The self help and motivation for young men to focus on their careers and well being personally and professionally are quickly dismissed by you. I think I understand. Got it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> Hate all you want. It’s been explained enough times on here. The beta simps just can’t understand.


Ha, guess I am a beta cause I don't understand, or choose to ignore.

You know what, who cares.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> Okay, so you don’t give any credit to RP for anything but producing incels that hate women. The self help and motivation for young men to focus on their careers and well being personally and professionally are quickly dismissed by you. I think I understand. Got it.


The problem is most guys (true alpha's) don't need some group like red pill to figure out the small amount of positive stuff that RP points out.

I mean, how much credit do they get for saying, get in shape and dress nice, be assertive, care about your career and getting **** done. That isn't anything that my parents didn't say to me thousands of times. Once I chose to listen, guess what it helped me. Lift weights (that is another good one.) funny I figured that out on my own. 

There take on women and relationships is silly. And it ain't gonna lead to a good and happy one that's for sure. The ironic thing is, follow the rp rules and you are sure to attract the very kind of women rp complains about.

You want to meet women, do all the things I listed in the above paragraph, and then focus on becoming emotionally intelligent. Broaden your interest and be generally inquisitive about life so you are interesting and have something to talk about. Learn how to carry a conversation and be natural with it. Be strong yet empathetic. 

To me it's a bunch of guys who were clueless about women who made a club where they gave clueless advice to each other.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

sokillme said:


> The problem is most guys (true alpha's) don't need some group like red pill to figure out the small amount of positive stuff that RP points out.
> 
> I mean, how much credit do they get for saying, get in shape and dress nice, be assertive, care about your career and getting **** done. Lift weights (that is another good one.) funny I figured that out on my own. That isn't anything that my parents didn't say to me thousands of times. Once I chose to listen, guess what it helped me.
> 
> ...


I’ve been cheated on twice in two marriages. I divorced in both cases. I was a doormat. I lot of what I have read with the RP has made sense to me. I think absolutely clearer when it comes to relationships and women. It helps me not to make the same mistakes again. For me, it’s been very important.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ve been cheated on twice in two marriages. I divorced in both cases. I was a doormat. I lot of what I have read with the RP has made sense to me. I think absolutely clearer when it comes to relationships and women. It helps me not to make the same mistakes again. For me, it’s been very important.


Aren't you currently in the midst of the 2nd divorce (it sounds like a doozy)? After the dust has settled, you may have a change of opinion. 

As for having connections with friends and dogs, they have their limits. I have yet to see a friend or a dog see a person through a serious illness 24/7 or dying. You can't even teach a dog to dial 911.

Please stop saying 'all' women. It immediately discounts your input and there are enough female members on this forum who can prove you wrong.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion the problem is that everyone uses an unrealistic model of human sexual response in order to identify and troubleshoot marital problems. Everyone is different and there should be no comparison to any model of sexual response as doing so creates problems that do not exist. 

So what is the solution? Well, first it would be to understand that there is not a problem. Then folks can begin adjusting their perspectives and learn how to love each other and stop comparing them to other people.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ve been cheated on twice in two marriages. I divorced in both cases. I was a doormat. I lot of what I have read with the RP has made sense to me. I think absolutely clearer when it comes to relationships and women. It helps me not to make the same mistakes again. For me, it’s been very important.


Well I never said that some of the stuff is good advice, particularly about being assertive and all that. Hell I give that advice all the time on here.

If you read my post on here I suspect you can tell I am no wilting flower right? Here is the thing, the relationship stuff reads like bad advice to me. In my mind it's almost like setting up a self fulfilling prophecy.

What you are doing by assuming all women play games and are "monkey branching", are using hegemony theory to pick and move on from mates and all the rest is not leaving yourself open to having an authentic relationship built on trust and loyalty. The women (of whom there are more of then not) you could have an authentic relationship with will be able to see you don't trust them, you don't believe in them and will NOT be attracted to you. So you are then in fact left with the small pool who are the kind that you have to game to have any kind of relationship with. If that is your thing, so be it. To me it seems like the shallowest kind, and way too much work. The kind that don't last.

Look I don't want to presume to be an authority on Women's nature, but I do know enough to know that RP's take is the most cynical. I mean if you are dating a social influencer or New York Times reporter then yeah she is probably exactly like that. But if you are dating your normal everyday girl next door, which 99% of us will , then It's like the extreme feminist take on men where they say stuff like all sex is rape. It's just ********.

Here is the thing, if you were a doormat (your words not mine) then that probably accounts for the type of women you attracted. Ones who knew they could dominate you. But that is how this stuff works. That kind of women isn't going to pursue a strong assertive man because first of all those kind of men don't put up with their ********, but also they can't handle men like that for that reason.

I believe being a doormat in a relationship is done mostly out of fear, it's a fear of not being worthy of love without being one. I believe the way to correct this is not to do the opposite and start to be "uber-asserive", it's to see the problem in a different way. One of the things that being a doormat does is it cheats you out of being authentic. Meaning there is no truth in your relationship. So a very healthy way to correct being a doormat is not to turn around but be aggressive or dismissive, but to be authentic in your next relationship. Meaning if you are unhappy or you don't agree, say so. If she starts to test you, and that is a thing, you can say "um no, not cool with that, if that is what it is I am not sticking around" or just plain "No". But you have to learn to be confident enough that you can say so without being defensive. This takes practice but it's also a good way to live your life, it doesn't just have to be in your romantic relationships. You can learn to be assertive and really authentic and come across as confident, not dismissive or defensive.

Besides the assertive thing, which is a lesson all people need to learn. Lot's of men have trouble with women because they are not empathetic. They are also not raised to make emotional intelligence a priority. They see them as "other" and incomprehensible without even trying. They don't understand or care to take the time to learn their wives sexual nature. Lots of things like that. And lots of people are just straight up assholes and are just to selfish to have good marriages period. All of these things can be worked on though, and all of them will lead to a better life besides your romantic one. 95% of good marriages happen because of who you pick. Pick the right person who is willing to work and change and you will have a much greater success.

My other problem is that RP seems dismissive of women, and that is a problem and again not truly operating out of strength. To automatically assume a nefarious motive for someones actions that you don't agree with or don't understand is a dangerous way to do relationships. Even besides that, so much of the take comes from this "other" idea. The "nice guy" type man see women as "other" whom they have to genuflect to, and the RP type man sees women as this "other" who they have to game to have any kind of relationship with. This is not being assertive or operating out of strength. Maybe human being just have different priorities, a big part of marriage is negotiating that, but you need to have the right partner. Well you are not going to do that if your relationship is built on fear. You also have to be strong enough to negotiation out of altruism, not fear.

Are women different then us. Yes. And when you learn to appreciate that, to not be afraid of it, it's wonderful. But the difference doesn't give them any more or less value. It's just a nice part of the human condition.

One of my big problems with RP is that so much of the dogma is operating out of fear. I have a hard time believing anyone is an "alpha" when that is where they are coming from. The most principle tenets seems to be that people operate out of there most primal instinct. That is just not what evidence shows. Hell people run into burning buildings and risk being set on fire to rescue others. 

I don't know how deeply you are into this but, maybe it's not that women are not to be trusted, maybe it's just your picker was broken, and instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you should work on that issue. I just hope you are not trading one extreme behavior for another. Be careful that you don't pivot from one extreme to another. Like one of the great philosophers said - "Balance Daniel-Son".


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

MaiChi said:


> Do men want sex more than women?
> 
> 
> The driving force behind the sex strike
> ...


I used to believe that when I was a teenager. When I started getting older, I noticed women like sex just as much or more than men. I've never been with a woman that didn't like sex at least as much as me.

In fact, a lot of common myths around sex are simply not true, at least in my experience. For example, myth is women like sex to feel connected, which is BS. I've always been more connected through sex than my partners. For the most part, I feel women like to just let loose, have fun and get off. I feel a deep connection through sex and I very rarely get off through sex


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Red Pill, What I have been told is it teaches about "the true nature of women". But I have yet to have any follower of the philosophy explain to me what the teachings say that is.


I thought red pill was from the Matrix movie ? I admittedly never saw the movie but thought it was sci-fi, not about womens behavior?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I thought red pill was from the Matrix movie ? I admittedly never saw the movie but thought it was sci-fi, not about womens behavior?


I believe it is, although I understand the movie idea more than the Male/Female Relationship idea that I've heard (admittedly) only bits and pieces of.

The Red Pill disconnects someone from the collective brain-washing dream state that most people are in, and awakens you to reality.

The Blue Pill puts you back to sleep into that dream, and allows you to remain oblivious to reality.

The movie was fantastic and SO original!!!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> If I 'm not mistaken RP- Red Pill google it.
> 
> If there is something that I have learned in life is that human behavior is basically two dimensional as far as sex is involved (or tri-dimensional when mental illness is involved).
> 1. Biological. At its basis, the most powerful instinctive push that all living thing experience is "survival of the species". It doesn't matter if you believe or not, because is not a matter of belief, it's a biological fact, just like 1+1=2.
> ...


We as a species are not monogamous... that's a loaded gun. I would agree that instinctively, animals are programmed to spread their seed and produce as many possibile progeny for the survival of their race. 

But humans are a curious case. In the past, humans have not been particularly monogamous. But we developed society, religion, social constructs that drive human nature more than biological urges. All of a sudden there is far more men producing offspring than a select few. We have couples as a norm, not harems.

From a monetary standpoint, why would any man in modern society want 100s of kids if he has to pay for them? 

From a spiritual/ethical standpoint, why can't a man choose not to cheat because he knows it goes against his religion and/or ethics. He may see a beautiful woman, he may gawk, he may think dirty thoughts, but in the end he walks away.

From a societal standpoint, why doesn't a woman let every tom, **** and harry park his sausage inside her? What would others say?

From a pair bonding standpoint, there are chemicals that are released which in turn cause love. Why on earth would a non monogamous species have any need for such nonsense as love?

I see this as a nature vs nurture pull where other species largely rely on instincts.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Why does RP seems to invade everything on this forum?
Like, this topic doesn't seem relevant. But whatever.


happyhusband0005 said:


> I wonder if this is some what linked to the fact that men pretty much always guaranteed to orgasm with sex, where as women that usually more dependent on the guy. Would guys be as interested in sex if the situation was reversed?


Well, I can think of a reason that I guess...life, or sex in general has evolved this way? 

Now, if a girl can't bring a guy to orgasm, they generally have a problem with it. It has happened to me a few times, or you can always look on Reddit for stories. Reddit usually blames the guys for porn habits, or just other problems because it's always the guy's fault. Based on reddit, it affects the relationship, how they view themselves, how they feel, etc., 

As for my personal experience with this, I did have a girl I dated briefly that I encountered this problem with. I have no idea why, she was cute, but I just had difficultly with her. We'd go for hour-long sessions before exhaustion hit me. I assume she wasn't lying about her orgasms during those times but can't know for sure. Though she knew I wasn't always finishing, and it did affect things. I was accused of seeing other women, she wanted a lot of recognition that I found her attractive, and the always awkward times that she would occasionally cry after sex when I didn't finish. 
Never figured out why I couldn't with her.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

badsanta said:


> In my opinion the problem is that everyone uses an unrealistic model of human sexual response in order to identify and troubleshoot marital problems. Everyone is different and there should be no comparison to any model of sexual response as doing so creates problems that do not exist.
> 
> So what is the solution? Well, first it would be to understand that there is not a problem. Then folks can begin adjusting their perspectives and learn how to love each other and stop comparing them to other people.


Yes, everyone is different, but still within the boundaries that define human sexuality. You can avoid comparison, but you can still be incompatible. Why adjust to the unacceptable - for you? Problems exist - to think otherwise is delusional thinking.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Okay, so you don’t give any credit to RP for anything but producing incels that hate women. The self help and motivation for young men to focus on their careers and well being personally and professionally are quickly dismissed by you. I think I understand. Got it.


Did you really get that from what I said or are you being sarcastic. I literally said the self improvement stuff (pursuing excellence) was "infinitely invaluable". 

The point I was really making was that stuff is not uniquely RP. The uniquely RP stuff is the stuff about women and relationships. So if you can get the other stuff from an abundance of different sources then thats not the purpose of the RP stuff and not the real reason guys are seeking out the RP ideologies. And I don't know if RP produces incels, thats a group with far deeper issues than any of the RP. 

I think the problem I have with the RP stuff is not what a mature man does with it but the fact that some young guys are picking it up, believing that lying to women about their lifestyle, their future plans etc. etc. just to get laid is OK. For me lying to get sex from a woman is a rung below sexual assault. Might sound extreme but if it's likely the woman would have made a different choice knowing the truth I feel like it is similar to slipping a girl a date rate drug. I have to believe that it is not great for self respect in the long run. I don't think I could feel good about myself knowing I had to lie to women to get laid. I know not every guy who is into RP lies as a general rule but I've seen enough stuff from guys talking about RP and talking about what women want to hear and how to build a believable story to believe the lying to women to get them into bed and RP is linked. 

Knowing that you have had 2 marriages and been cheated on both times I can actually understand why it appeals to you. If I had been through what you have I seriously would doubt my picker and I would not have any interest in ever getting married again.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> For me lying to get sex from a woman is a rung below sexual assault. Might sound extreme but if it's likely the woman would have made a different choice knowing the truth I feel like it is similar to slipping a girl a date rate drug. I have to believe that it is not great for self respect in the long run.


Hmm...this makes me wonder...does it then follow that you believe a woman doing the same (lying to trick a guy into sex - which DOES happen) is also her on the rung below sexually assaulting him?

I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious what your answer is.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Hmm...this makes me wonder...does it then follow that you believe a woman doing the same (lying to trick a guy into sex - which DOES happen) is also her on the rung below sexually assaulting him?
> 
> I'm not being snarky, I'm really curious what your answer is.


Yes, of course. If the guy wouldn't have made the same choice if presented with the truth then yes.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Did you really get that from what I said or are you being sarcastic. I literally said the self improvement stuff (pursuing excellence) was "infinitely invaluable".
> 
> The point I was really making was that stuff is not uniquely RP. The uniquely RP stuff is the stuff about women and relationships. So if you can get the other stuff from an abundance of different sources then thats not the purpose of the RP stuff and not the real reason guys are seeking out the RP ideologies. And I don't know if RP produces incels, thats a group with far deeper issues than any of the RP.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I’m sure that I’ll stop watching the videos and reading the books at some point. I’m not even through D number two yet. That’s an entire **** show since I told the ex I wasn’t agreeing to her making me be an “every other weekend dad”. Right now, the videos and books on RP offer me the insight I need to hear and a certain comfort level knowing that I’m not the only dad having to fight for equal time with my kids. I don’t lie to women, in fact I am probably far too honest right away. It’s probably costed me dates and sex, who knows? When I had an OLD profile, it had my true age, height, build, marital status and very recent pictures. By the time I would meet up in person with anyone, they knew I was going through a divorce and that I have kids.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I get the impression that there are few who think there is a cure to the assertions of the article. That being the case, we should then conclude that either we invent a pill for women in relationships to up their game to match that of their men or we invent a different pill for men in relationships to down their sexual game to match that of their women.

I am surprised that humans have tried to cure everything else but still there is no standard libido pill for women and you can buy over the counter just like we buy vitamin pills. Meantime the situation continues to cause untold unhappiness for millions of both men and women. 

I have watch people in my friendship groups over the years. I have heard women complaining that their men want it all the time and they are not sleeping well because of it. I have said "some would say you are boasting about your blessings." I have also seen some very happy women who think themselves lucky in life because their men are at it all the time. 

For those of you with money to invest, look into this area and make yourself a fortune. There are too many gaps that need pills to level off the plane.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, everyone is different, *but still within the boundaries that define human sexuality.* You can avoid comparison, but you can still be incompatible.


Generally speaking the biological instincts that drive a couple to be together in the first place should indicate that compatibility is possible. Unless something "artificial" was used to trigger that instinct, then things are likely incompatible but take a while to discover. 

An example of something artificial would be a person pretending to be someone other than themselves.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

MaiChi said:


> I get the impression that there are few who think there is a cure to the assertions of the article. That being the case, we should then conclude that either we invent a pill for women in relationships to up their game to match that of their men or we invent a different pill for men in relationships to down their sexual game to match that of their women.
> 
> I am surprised that humans have tried to cure everything else but still there is no standard libido pill for women and you can buy over the counter just like we buy vitamin pills. Meantime the situation continues to cause untold unhappiness for millions of both men and women.
> 
> ...


There has been some work on this --- It seemed to get quite a bit of push back from some women. I'm curious as to how pervasive the attitude is among women.





__





Bloomberg - Are you a robot?






www.bloomberg.com





<snip>
The counterattack against the drug has been furious, and in many instances led by women. These forces contend that one woman’s sexual abnormal is another woman’s normal, and it’s not uncommon for a woman’s desire to wax and wane throughout her life. They say it’s more typical for women to respond to their partners’ overtures rather than spontaneously feel desire for sex—and that these women shouldn’t be shamed by drugmakers into thinking there’s something wrong with them.

“It’s the story of disease mongering. The creation of a condition that’s really not a condition,” says Leonore Tiefer, a sex therapist and former co-director of the Sex and Gender Clinic in the department of psychiatry at New York’s Montefiore Medical Center. Tiefer has spent much of the past decade arguing at regulatory meetings and with op-ed pieces that there’s a wide spectrum of normal sexuality. A woman with a low libido, she argues, doesn’t need medication. “What’s been going on for the past 10 years is a campaign on the part of Big Pharma to recruit doctors as front people and spokespeople to promote a condition that doesn’t exist,” she says.

</snip>


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

attheend02 said:


> There has been some work on this --- It seemed to get quite a bit of push back from some women. I'm curious as to how pervasive the attitude is among women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is so hilariously hypocritical and sexist. 

So when men don't want sex, and their partners do, it's a problem and we fix it with Viagra and TRT shots. 

But when women don't want to have sex, why, it's not a problem! Its a made up problem! Why should she have to change to satisfy her partner's sexual needs?! 

It's so interesting to see how some groups of people are either unwilling or incapable to see things from the opposite point of view.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

attheend02 said:


> There has been some work on this --- It seemed to get quite a bit of push back from some women. I'm curious as to how pervasive the attitude is among women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps someone should somehow encourage the press to start promoting such drugs and let my lot think that it will be in our interest as our husbands, boyfriends, etc will not think outside the family box as all they need will be at home.


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