# Hello TAM



## Faithful Wife

Hi everyone. I thought I'd stop by with an update...

I'm divorced now from my second husband (the one I talked about at TAM when I was frequently posting here). The divorce was final in December 2015. It was the most difficult decision either of us have ever had to make. We still love each other...but we had to get to the point where we loved each other enough to set each other free. 

I struggled a lot with the emotional impact of that decision, for quite a few months (both before and after the divorce was actually final).

Now he and I have emerged from all of that and are good friends. We see each other and talk frequently and have helped each other through this to the other side. It feels really good to be healthy enough now to cherish his friendship yet not want to be married to him or be with him romantically any longer.

In June, I started seeing a new guy. Things have been very nice with him, we are having a lot of fun, getting to know each other, and getting to experience that warm, fuzzy new boyfriend/girlfriend vibe. 

The new boyfriend senses a threat from the ex-husband, so I have minimized my interactions with the ex-husband....because I totally get why the new boyfriend would have a problem with us hanging out together anymore. 

I do not ever want to be legally married again (because then I can never be divorced again  ) but I do think the new boyfriend might want that. I'm discussing things like this with him now so as not to lead him down any path with me that doesn't head to where he wants to go.

I did have quite a fun ride in dating before I met this guy...that helped me along also. I always enjoyed dating, and this go-round was no exception.

Anyway, just thought I'd stop in and say hello.....hello, TAM.


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## lifeistooshort

Hey girl, glad to hear you're doing well!

So sorry about your divorce, I'm sure it was a tough decision. 

Might I recommend you not completely close the door on remarriage? Never is a long time and it's not been that long since your divorce. 

Maybe you'll still feel like that down the road, I'm only my suggesting you keep an open mind. If you ever get to the point where you're ready you'll know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife

Thanks Life. That was my 2nd marriage, however. So I already took that gamble you are speaking of, and it ended in D. I can't do that a 3rd time. The stats on 3rd marriages ending in divorce are so ridiculously high, I can't believe anyone does it.

However...I still believe in marriage and respect everyone who is married...it is not the institution of marriage that caused me to be divorced twice. It is/was my own choices.

Having learned this finally, clearly no one should ever marry me! 

The fact that anyone would even want to is sort of perplexing to me. I really just have no need to merge like that. But it is a sweet romantic notion for many people. Including my boyfriend. 

Nice to hear from you, Life.


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## EllisRedding

Hey, one of my TAM arch nemesis'  

J/K ... sorry to hear about things with your H. Glad to hear you found someone else and are enjoying the new relationship aspect of things.

Best wishes with everything.


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## Lila

Hey FW

Glad to see you back. So sorry things didn't work out with your h but it sounds like you picked yourself right up, dusted yourself off, and got right back in that saddle. Yeehaw!  

Hope you stick around for a while. You're missed. 

Sent from mobile using Tapatalk


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## MrsHolland

Hello Sweetheart

great to see you here but I'm sorry to hear of the rough ride.

Don't get too tangled in thoughts of marriage or not, it is way too soon. Live your life, enjoy your new man and give it a few years before making any decisions. Marriage is not the be all and end all anyway. MrH and I are at around the 5 year mark and not legally married (defacto so under the law it is the same as married). We will marry in a couple of years when most of the kids are finished Secondary College. If we get to that point and don't want to put pen to paper then we won't.

Now get in there and kick some arse on the TAM threads >


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## Fozzy

Welcome back FW! Sorry to hear things didn't work out, but I'm glad you were able to get through it amicably. That's a blessing in itself. I hope you stick around for a while--your insight has been missed!


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## Faithful Wife

Thanks everyone! :x

Holland, you are 100% correct that it is too soon to Talk About Marriage (he he, see what I did there?). He's the one who brought it up by making it clear that is ultimately what he wants in a relationship eventually...so I had to respond to this right upfront so he would not be misled.

Not sure about kicking ass on any threads...I just feel so mellow and peaceful these days that I don't seem to have the energy to pursue those topics anymore. Though I did leave a snark bomb on the latest RP thread...I mean, obvi I had to do that one. 

Thanks again everyone.


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## EleGirl

Hi FW,

You have been missed. I'm sorry about the divorce. I'm actually shocked about it. I know that you really love him. It must be hard.

Just take it slow with this new guy.


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## Faithful Wife

I do really love him, still.


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## Emerging Buddhist

lifeistooshort said:


> Might I recommend you not completely close the door on remarriage? Never is a long time and it's not been that long since your divorce.
> 
> Maybe you'll still feel like that down the road, I'm only my suggesting you keep an open mind. If you ever get to the point where you're ready you'll know.


I agree... took me three to get it right.


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## Personal

...


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## Ikaika

Sorry to hear, yet sounds like you are in a better place. I guess this came as surprise to me, maybe I'm just clueless me and was not paying attention. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyrealname4

This is a shock to me.

IIRC you tried living in separate homes for a while? Did this work? Or did it make drifting apart more inevitable?

Is it because of your bisexuality? He knew about this; but maybe wasn't completely comfortable.....is that right?

Whenever I would see a post from you, I would think, "this is from a person who knows how to make marriage work."

I'm not holding you to a higher standard than anyone else who can have an ultimate breakdown in their marriage. But I'm as disappointed as I can be, over the relationship status of an internet stranger.

How can you still love him, and get divorced? I don't understand. My husband and I used to say to each other; "if we ever split up, let's do it before we completely hate each other" Is is like that? Did you guys get out before things got much, much worse? Remember that old Rita Coolidge song, "I'd Rather Leave When I'm In Love", that expresses it pretty well.

Maybe you don't want to share the nitty-gritty details; I ask because you put it out there. But I understand if it's too private (we can't delete posts anymore, btw).

I'm a little embarrassed to say the thought of you has crossed my mind every once in a great while when I'm not on TAM; like maybe watching _Portlandia_ 

I am glad you are back and hope the best for your future.

And you will always have to beat men off with sticks when you *genuinely* put out an, "I'm not interested in marriage" vibe.


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## jld

I'm really sorry to hear this. I can only imagine how painful this has been for both of you. 

What you said about loving each other enough to free each other is beautiful, and true, and a very courageous thing to do. 

I hope your boyfriend can find a way to honor the relationship you and your ex have built, while also building a new relationship with you. His understanding and patience could ease the transition.

Again, just so sorry. You are right to have ended it, but it has all had to have been very painful, very challenging. So very, very sorry, FW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

I've certainly wondered from time to time.. where is that FW ? You've certainly challenged my thinking in some areas over the years...I know we come from 2 different sides of the tracks..but still...you've always been Kind to me, which I appreciate... and I respect your knowledge, and sharing it.....

I can understand why the new guy wouldn't be very comfortable with your being close friends with the EX ...especially if he knew the name of your Blog !! I googled it just now... can't find it.. I assume you've taken it down..

Have you shared with him your popularity on the internet in this area of expertise? Does he know who he is dating ?? 

I know how badly you wanted this marriage to last, this to be it... all the work you put into it with scouring the Marriage Builders website.. you were the 1st who got me clicking on a "Dr Harley" link even... I was impressed with your determination -despite some of the things you & he struggled with...

With the dust settling... would you say it was just a case of "Incompatibility" on too many fronts then ? 

I am one who feels that's often just too difficult to overcome, even with the best of intentions.. how we are wired just gets in the way. Happiness is important.. so here's to your happiness..







...

I like that you said you "still believe in marriage" -respecting it, even if it's not something you can see yourself doing again....

So the new guy cares to be married.. making it official when he's in love.. awe...sounds like a catch! (I would say that, right!)... hoping this won't be the deal breaker if you are compatible in the ways that matter the most.. It's so early though ... take it slow...

And Welcome back !


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## Faithful Wife

Thank you for the support and well wishes everyone. I'm on my phone and can't quote and respond to everyone but I hope to circle back and do that soon.

Personal...thank you for inquiring about my ex-h and his well being. He is doing well in the big picture, but is/was devastated by our divorce, as was I. Everyone who knows us well has been shocked and saddened by our break up and they knew how in love we are and were. But we are doing ok now...our support of each other has been the reason we are ok now.

SA...those are good questions...about my blog and my online presence...and what my boyfriend knows or thinks about all of that. I have been telling him things as opportunity allows and when it seems appropriate to do so. It's a work in progress....so far he hasn't been too freaked out. He has some interesting and colorful stories too so we are a decent match for each other. 

FF...boy do I have some good dating stories...whoooo wheee!!! Not a good place to share them at TAM though, I'll hit you up some other way. 

Notmyrealname...I do want to respond to you as well...I will try to do that tomorrow but it might be via PM if that is ok.

Thanks again everyone!


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## *Deidre*

Sounds like things turned out positive for you, nice to hear!  That's really great to read when people divorce and can stay amicable.


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## heartsbeating

Wow that's a fair amount of change in a relatively short period of time. It sounds like you are feeling upbeat which is good. You can't keep a good girl down! Keeping things simple and easing into this new relationship sounds wise.

I remember your mom was going to move in with you, how is she going? 

It's good to see you back here.


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## Faithful Wife

notmyrealname4 said:


> This is a shock to me.
> 
> IIRC you tried living in separate homes for a while? Did this work? Or did it make drifting apart more inevitable?
> 
> Is it because of your bisexuality? He knew about this; but maybe wasn't completely comfortable.....is that right?
> 
> Whenever I would see a post from you, I would think, "this is from a person who knows how to make marriage work."
> 
> I'm not holding you to a higher standard than anyone else who can have an ultimate breakdown in their marriage. But I'm as disappointed as I can be, over the relationship status of an internet stranger.
> 
> How can you still love him, and get divorced? I don't understand. My husband and I used to say to each other; "if we ever split up, let's do it before we completely hate each other" Is is like that? Did you guys get out before things got much, much worse? Remember that old Rita Coolidge song, "I'd Rather Leave When I'm In Love", that expresses it pretty well.
> 
> Maybe you don't want to share the nitty-gritty details; I ask because you put it out there. But I understand if it's too private (we can't delete posts anymore, btw).
> 
> I'm a little embarrassed to say the thought of you has crossed my mind every once in a great while when I'm not on TAM; like maybe watching _Portlandia_
> 
> I am glad you are back and hope the best for your future.
> 
> And you will always have to beat men off with sticks when you *genuinely* put out an, "I'm not interested in marriage" vibe.


Notmyname...your post really touched me. I really wanted to respond...though it is very difficult (because it still hurts very much).

Basically the reason we finally threw in the towel was because we knew we both need and deserve more than we can give to each other. We had tried for over a decade to smooth out the bumps in the fabric of our relationship, and there were just some core personality traits that we each have that cannot and will not ever mesh well with each other. While we could side step the issues caused by our personality mismatch most of the time, the times we couldn't would simply bring out the worst of each of us and put us in conflict every time. After finally admitting to ourselves that this is not something we can change...we finally agreed to split for "reals" (ie: divorce).

For about a year, we tried living separately to see if this would solve our core personality conflict problem. It did work to some extent, and I actually think he could have continued to live that way and stay married...but ultimately, I wanted more contact, the kind that only comes by being physically present with each other.

It was an agonizing decision, but we knew it had to be done in order for us to seek our happiness. We still struggle emotionally when we see each other, and we have to be very diligent to not fall into each other's arms...because we both know that will just hurt even more. We are pretty good at this though, and up until I met my new guy, we would see each other fairly frequently, eat and drink, laugh and talk, and even went away together to the beach for a weekend (in a 2 bedroom condo). 

None of the decision had anything to do with my bisexuality.

Now that I've met someone new...I can say I don't feel "in love" with my ex anymore, though I do still love him dearly. Up until I started seeing my boyfriend, if my ex had said "let's try one more time!" I probably would have. But I know it would not have worked and would have simply led to even more pain. So I'm glad we just did what we needed to do and are moving on now as best we can.

My new guy would not like it for my ex and I to hang out together anymore...so I have to have that conversation with my ex. He will totally understand and as my friend will take a step back. My new guy will and does trust me, but he can sense the deep bond my ex and I have and it makes him uncomfortable (of course, and I am not asking him to feel otherwise, I will do the right thing and be a good girlfriend).

Heartsbeating asked about my mom....she has been living with me for a little over a year now. She is doing ok, but her health is declining, as was expected. We are having a good time, we know time is short and precious, and we celebrate every moment of it we can. She likes my new boyfriend, which is good because that is very important to me.

We are now moving into a larger place so that my boyfriend and I can have a little more privacy when he comes over.

Oddly enough, my bf also has his mother living with him...plus 2 teenaged kids. (My kids are adults, they both live in Portland near me and I have 2 grandkids by one of them).

The teenaged kids are self-sufficient pretty much, so when he and I are discussing our plans and dates, we have to figure out "what to do with our moms" rather than "what to do with our kids". Its kind of cute. But also...kind of daunting, because our moms are both going to continue to decline and become more dependent on us, not less. 

But I would not have her anywhere but with me, and he feels the same about his mom.

Oh and the last thing I wanted to comment on...so true that when you genuinely don't want to get married, the ones who do want to be married find you like there is a target on your head! So odd!

Thank you again for your kind thoughts and words, notmyname.


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## Vorlon2.0

FW, 

So glad you checked in with an update. I don't visit here very often anymore but have often wondered how you were doing. As you know I really enjoyed our virtual interactions. I too feel a heavy heart for you and your Ex. Your happiness was infectious when it was going well. 

I did see your update when you decided to live separately and I thought maybe you two were the couple that could make that work. You have always been very pragmatic in matters of the heart and no matter how difficult the choice, you end up doing the right thing for yourself and others. 

Me.. I'm still plugging along. Life is good. Some of the issues have smoothed out and I now just try to target the 80/20 rule as a marker for success. Oldest daughter recently married, 3 of 4 kids live near us now. Job is going well. Marriage overall is good. I'm that little bit older than you so all parents on both sides have passed. 

I wish you every happiness in your journey. 

Vorlon


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## Faithful Wife

Vorlon2.0 said:


> FW,
> 
> So glad you checked in with an update. I don't visit here very often anymore but have often wondered how you were doing. As you know I really enjoyed our virtual interactions. I too feel a heavy heart for you and your Ex. *Your happiness was infectious when it was going well. *
> 
> I did see your update when you decided to live separately and I thought maybe you two were the couple that could make that work. You have always been very pragmatic in matters of the heart and no matter how difficult the choice, you end up doing the right thing for yourself and others.
> 
> Me.. I'm still plugging along. Life is good. Some of the issues have smoothed out and I now just try to target the 80/20 rule as a marker for success. Oldest daughter recently married, 3 of 4 kids live near us now. Job is going well. Marriage overall is good. I'm that little bit older than you so all parents on both sides have passed.
> 
> I wish you every happiness in your journey.
> 
> Vorlon


Thank you Vorlon....I have appreciated our support of each other over the years....I am happy you are doing well overall...thank you for the sweet compliment I bolded...I do love to spread happiness, and I have some to spare again now.


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## Anon Pink

Welcome Back FW!!!! I have missed you so much! I have even tried to mention you in several threads over the last several months, but for some reason TAM changes your name to faithfulwife (no caps no space) every damn time! So I give up and just write your name. 

I'm so sad to hear your marriage ended but I'm very glad to know you're having fun with a new boyfriend.

Taking care of your Mom and him taking care of his Mom....this will be a new scenario for TAM. I'm sure it will be very tricky.

I want to hear all the dating stories too!


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## Faithful Wife

I missed you too Anon....when are you coming out here again?!?!


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## Anon Pink

Faithful Wife said:


> I missed you too Anon....when are you coming out here again?!?!


I was just there! We rented an RV and took a tour of Oregon. Just got back last week. Loved it! I want to move to Bend. I want to live in the redwood forest. I do not want to live on the Oregon coast but think it is stunning and untamed and I want to become a forest ranger!


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## Faithful Wife

You'll be the sexiest ranger ever.


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## Anon Pink

I would rock that hat!


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> I missed you too Anon....when are you coming out here again?!?!





Anon Pink said:


> I was just there! We rented an RV and took a tour of Oregon. Just got back last week. Loved it! I want to move to Bend. I want to live in the redwood forest. I do not want to live on the Oregon coast but think it is stunning and untamed and I want to become a forest ranger!





Faithful Wife said:


> You'll be the sexiest ranger ever.





Anon Pink said:


> I would rock that hat!













@Anon Pink you walk up to @Faithful Wife and tell her that she needs to step out of the the backseat of her car! She gets upset for you harassing her and her boyfriend at first, but once she sees your gorgeous blonde hair in that ranger hat .... (extremely cheesy porno grove music starts playing!)

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife

Actually that's pretty close to how I imagined it! Minus the boyfriend.


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## john117

Anon Pink said:


> I was just there! We rented an RV and took a tour of Oregon. Just got back last week. Loved it! I want to move to Bend. I want to live in the redwood forest. I do not want to live on the Oregon coast but think it is stunning and untamed and I want to become a forest ranger!


Watch Faithful Wife move to Idaho in the likely event I start traveling to Oregon again... U Oregon is in the short list for DD1's PhD degree schools 

Seriously, thanks for the update. Its amazing to see how people evolve and adapt, and above all, it's a delight to see reflection and honesty come thru when important decisions need to be made.


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Watch Faithful Wife move to Idaho in the likely event I start traveling to Oregon again... U Oregon is in the short list for DD1's PhD degree schools
> 
> Seriously, thanks for the update. Its amazing to see how people evolve and adapt, and above all, it's a delight to see reflection and honesty come thru when important decisions need to be made.


Really no chance in hell I will move to Idaho...there is a slim chance I would visit there, though! 

Good luck to your girls. UofO is a great school.


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> In June, I started seeing a new guy. Things have been very nice with him, we are having a lot of fun, getting to know each other, and getting to experience that warm, fuzzy new boyfriend/girlfriend vibe.


 @Faithful Wife Your story haunted me in my sleep last night! I dreamed I was no longer with my wife and that I had a new girlfriend that was very into me with a fuzzy new girlfriend/boyfriend vibe. Fortunately I woke up before Anon Pink stepped into the scene rocking her park ranger hat and stole her away from me! It was probably headed that way because in my dream we were hiking outdoors!

OMG, I will probably dream about it again tonight... Perhaps I do need to let this dream play out and see where it goes!










Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife

Park rangers are hot, that's all I gotta say. 

Happy warm fuzzies to you, Bad Santa.


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## mitchell

I'm quite happy you have returned.

Thanks for the updates!


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## Richle

I don’t know is it good or not to start my chatting here with this topic, but I’ve read the story of Faithful Wife and feel like it is little similar with mine. Similar, but different. I’ve been married with my first husband for 7 years. Divorce was hard but best solution. Now I’m engaged with another guy. We are dating already 5 years, and I love him. But I’m so much afraid to get married again. And… every day I think about my first husband. Sometimes only one minute, but every day.


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## notmyrealname4

Richle said:


> I don’t know is it good or not to start my chatting here with this topic, but I’ve read the story of Faithful Wife and feel like it is little similar with mine. Similar, but different. I’ve been married with my first husband for 7 years. Divorce was hard but best solution. Now I’m engaged with another guy. We are dating already 5 years, and I love him. But I’m so much afraid to get married again.* And… every day I think about my first husband. Sometimes only one minute, but every day.*




Doesn't sound like you're ready to get married to anyone else, if you still think about your first husband for at least a minute every day.... 5 years later!

You might want to start your own thread, and maybe others could share some insights with you on this topic.:|


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## alexm

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks Life. That was my 2nd marriage, however. So I already took that gamble you are speaking of, and it ended in D. I can't do that a 3rd time. The stats on 3rd marriages ending in divorce are so ridiculously high, I can't believe anyone does it.
> 
> However...I still believe in marriage and respect everyone who is married...it is not the institution of marriage that caused me to be divorced twice. It is/was my own choices.
> 
> Having learned this finally, clearly no one should ever marry me!
> 
> The fact that anyone would even want to is sort of perplexing to me. I really just have no need to merge like that. But it is a sweet romantic notion for many people. Including my boyfriend.
> 
> Nice to hear from you, Life.


I'm with you on that! If I were ever to get divorced again, I likely wouldn't remarry for a third time. Been there, done that. There's just something about saying "my third husband/wife" that doesn't sound right!

Welcome back. I missed your feistiness!


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## Faithful Wife

alexm said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Life. That was my 2nd marriage, however. So I already took that gamble you are speaking of, and it ended in D. I can't do that a 3rd time. The stats on 3rd marriages ending in divorce are so ridiculously high, I can't believe anyone does it.
> 
> However...I still believe in marriage and respect everyone who is married...it is not the institution of marriage that caused me to be divorced twice. It is/was my own choices.
> 
> Having learned this finally, clearly no one should ever marry me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that anyone would even want to is sort of perplexing to me. I really just have no need to merge like that. But it is a sweet romantic notion for many people. Including my boyfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to hear from you, Life.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you on that! If I were ever to get divorced again, I likely wouldn't remarry for a third time. Been there, done that. There's just something about saying "my third husband/wife" that doesn't sound right!
> 
> Welcome back. I missed your feistiness!
Click to expand...

Thanks alexm. I think I'm a little less feisty these days....but I'm snapping out of it.


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## arbitrator

badsanta said:


> @Faithful Wife Your story haunted me in my sleep last night! I dreamed I was no longer with my wife and that I had a new girlfriend that was very into me with a fuzzy new girlfriend/boyfriend vibe. Fortunately I woke up before Anon Pink stepped into the scene rocking her park ranger hat and stole her away from me! It was probably headed that way because in my dream we were hiking outdoors!
> 
> OMG, I will probably dream about it again tonight... Perhaps I do need to let this dream play out and see where it goes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Badsanta


*Hell, let's just say what an absolute pleasure it would be for someone as good looking as that ravishing park ranger to slip a pair of handcuffs on, be they metal or fuzzy!

And I'd gladly confess to any crime that she charged me with!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Richle

notmyrealname4 said:


> Doesn't sound like you're ready to get married to anyone else, if you still think about your first husband for at least a minute every day.... 5 years later!
> 
> You might want to start your own thread, and maybe others could share some insights with you on this topic.:|


Thank you for support, usually I prefer not to discuss even with close friends. It seems to be only second time when I share, don’t know why here :smile2: But maybe later I’ll start my own thread.


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## Faithful Wife

Update to my update....I broke up with the boyfriend. 

It's a bummer, but it had to happen. 

On the plus side...now I can hang out with my ex again, which I'm doing tonight.


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## Tiggy!

Hey faithfull :x


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## Faithful Wife

Tiggy!!!!!!!!! :grin2:


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Update to my update....I broke up with the boyfriend.
> 
> It's a bummer, but it had to happen.
> 
> On the plus side...now I can hang out with my ex again, which I'm doing tonight.


Question for you... If your ex started dating and his new girlfriend asked him to cut off virtually all contact with you, and he made an effort to do that, would you want him to come running to you to "hang out" right after breaking up?

In my opinion if you know for yourself that maintaining a close relationship with your ex makes it difficult to move on with new relationships, that running back to him to hang out could be making it difficult for him. Particularly if you both really enjoy each other's company more so than trying to move on and form new relationships.

I'm no expert in breakups but I did have some tough ones in college. One in particular I would think about often and still wanted to be a part of her life as a friend. But when I met my wife, it took me a year to even realize that I had completely forgotten about my ex girlfriends. I think you started to experience this effect with your new boyfriend. While we naturally don't want to forget our past sexual relationships, you can't be with someone new completely until you let go.

In my opinion, and I am no expert.

Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> Question for you... If your ex started dating and his new girlfriend asked him to cut off virtually all contact with you, and he made an effort to do that, would you want him to come running to you to "hang out" right after breaking up?


Yes, I would want him to. And he was happy when I contacted him right away once I was free to see him again. He knows the only reason I wasn't seeing him was because I was being a good girlfriend to someone else and that now that I'm not with that person, then there's no reason for us not to hang out with each other.

Us hanging out together is not holding me back from moving on. I've been dating and having a lot of fun in the past 6 months or so. He doesn't know how many dates or with whom or any details of any of that, it is irrelevant to him. When I finally had a guy who turned into a boyfriend that's when I finally said I couldn't hang out anymore and he totally understood that. 

If he meets a girl and has to stop seeing me I will understand the same way.

When he and I first met, he was still friends with one of his exes and I even met her, too. She met another guy and got close to him, and that guy didn't want those two to hang out anymore and my ex honored that and he and his ex stopped seeing each other at all. She married the guy and moved out of state and they never spoke again. He was kind of sad about the loss of her friendship but just happy for her to be married to someone who loves her. 

I was (and still am) also friends with an ex when he and I met. So I guess being friends with exes is just something that isn't that big of a deal to me. Of course, in both of these cases, these were exes who we were sure we would never get back together with and we believed each other when we said this.

Keep in mind, my ex and I don't kiss or have sex or anything even close. We don't discuss things that lovers or even ex-lovers discuss. We really are just supportive friends or more like close family.


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Keep in mind, my ex and I don't kiss or have sex or anything even close. We don't discuss things that lovers or even ex-lovers discuss. We really are just supportive friends or more like close family.


OK, you do not kiss or have sex but the following are your words and not mine:



Faithful Wife said:


> We still struggle emotionally when we see each other, and *we have to be very diligent to not fall into each other's arms*...because we both know that will just hurt even more.
> 
> Now that I've met someone new...I can say I don't feel "in love" with my ex anymore, though I do still love him dearly. Up until I started seeing my boyfriend, if my ex had said "let's try one more time!" I probably would have.


...and now that "someone new" and you have ended it causing somewhat of a bummed out situation in your life. While I may be wrong, seeing how your ex is still there for you when you need him could add fuel for those "in love" feelings to come back and begin tugging at you. Although having discovered you can be happy with other people will likely help. 

The whole purpose of my last post and this one are that there is some guy out there (also friends with a very cute female forrest ranger) with your exact same struggles waiting to meet you. That will not happen unless you pick yourself up and get back out there!

**swift kick in the butt!** :grin2:

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> OK, you do not kiss or have sex but the following are your words and not mine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...and now that "someone new" and you have ended it causing somewhat of a bummed out situation in your life. While I may be wrong, seeing how your ex is still there for you when you need him could add fuel for those "in love" feelings to come back and begin tugging at you. Although having discovered you can be happy with other people will likely help.
> 
> The whole purpose of my last post and this one are that there is some guy out there (also friends with a very cute female forrest ranger) with your exact same struggles waiting to meet you. That will not happen unless you pick yourself up and get back out there!
> 
> **swift kick in the butt!** :grin2:
> 
> Badsanta


No worries @badsanta trust me, I will easily and happily get back in the saddle and date again...I just broke up with the boyfriend on Monday...it is now Saturday. I'm taking the week off. 

In the interim, I did a whole lot of things I needed to do that I had been neglecting due to spending all of my spare time with a boyfriend. I am so behind on regular things in my life after the 3 months we dated! Phew! I have spent all of this week catching up on those things.

I'm hanging out with my ex-h tonight again (after also seeing him last night)...and contrary to what you may think, this doesn't hold me back or make me fear falling back into his arms. When I said we both have to be very diligent not to do that, I should have also added that we ARE very diligent and we respect each other too much to "try anything" at this stage of the game. It is simply not on the table anymore....we know we can't go back.

We can, however, still be supportive and loving to each other, like true friends are. However tonight...being supportive of each other is going to take the form of him letting me come over to use the hot tub. Woot!

:noel: Cheers Santa...our forum fun man.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> However tonight...being supportive of each other is going to take the form of *him letting me come over to use the hot tub. * Woot!


*NOOOoooooo!!!*


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## Faithful Wife

:lol:

I'm all good. Back from ex's house, had a hot tub, and absolutely no laws of nature were broken.


----------



## DayOne

I'm kinda with badsanta on this one. You clearly make posts describing the deep connection you have with each other, and the tightrope you're both walking with no safety net. 

Accept it, or not, but that inability to make a clean break with your ex can come back to bite you. Your most recent 'ex' (the boyfriend) could see it, as clearly as you can't. You recognised he felt threatened by it, but not the reasons why. 

Essentially you're in 'the fog' with your ex.


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## Faithful Wife

DayOne said:


> I'm kinda with badsanta on this one. You clearly make posts describing the deep connection you have with each other, and the tightrope you're both walking with no safety net.
> 
> Accept it, or not, but that inability to make a clean break with your ex can come back to bite you. Your most recent 'ex' (the boyfriend) could see it, as clearly as you can't. You recognised he felt threatened by it, but not the reasons why.
> 
> Essentially you're in 'the fog' with your ex.


Where did I ever say I didn't understand why the boyfriend felt threatened by my ex? The fact that he did feel threatened by him is why I stopped hanging out with the ex, and my ex understood this perfectly and willingly took a step back when I discussed it with him. And the boyfriend was fine with that. I didn't give him any argument about it and he knew I wasn't going to do anything to harm our budding relationship.

It should be understood that I'm not ready for a deep commitment right now anyway. I am and was just looking for a boyfriend/companion/lover....not a new husband or life partner. Any relationships that form for me right now are not going to last for a lifetime, I'm just not there yet. My divorce was only final in December 2015, and I do not want to be in that deep of a relationship again at this time, I just can't do it right now.

There are many people dating who are in my position, it has not been hard to find guys to date who also aren't necessarily ready for a long term commitment. 

The boyfriend guy was ready for a more committed relationship and asked me to be open to that possibility with him. Because I liked him so much and there was a good overall match between us, I did let myself be open to it but I still wasn't really ready for it. I gave it a chance anyway, and I'm not sorry I did....we had a lot of fun together and he was really close to being the type of person I could see myself with for a longer relationship.

But...when we came to a crossroads and had minor misunderstanding that turned into a disagreement, he got extremely volatile and could not handle the conflict in a calm and loving manner.

That was it and I was out. I cannot be with someone who can't stay calm and loving. And although the boyfriend was very hurt by this, he does understand it. He has a high tolerance for drama laden conflict and I don't...so he agreed we aren't a match that way and this fact would not allow us to continue in a relationship together.

Once I got over the shock, I felt a lot better right away after breaking up, because again, I really am not ready for the level of commitment he wanted and I was happy to be free again.

And soon I will be happily dating again and getting out to do things with some lovely men.

It is only a matter of time before I will want to be in a more committed relationship again, because ultimately that is what I want. I just don't want it yet.

In the meantime....my ex-h is truly my friend and wants nothing but the best for me. If it looked to him like our relationship was holding me back, he would lovingly tell me he wanted to back out of my life so that I could move on. But he knows I have moved on. He knows we simply care about each other so much that we still want to be in each other's lives at this time and for as long as we can. 

I don't expect other people to agree with this nor choose this for themselves if they get divorced. But I know for us, it is a good thing we have (our friendship) and we cherish it because it is the evidence that our love has truly become unconditional. There is no longer anything we must do to prove our love to each other. It just is.


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## jld

I could not be with anyone not calm and loving, either. Very smart to get out right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayOne

Not judging, FW, though I can see it might be read that way. Simply expressing concern, as someone on the outside looking in.


----------



## Faithful Wife

jld said:


> I could not be with anyone not calm and loving, either. Very smart to get out right away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


jld...I can't imagine any situation where you and Dug would be divorced...but let's say for some reason it happened (not due to cheating or violence or addiction...just throwing those parameters in there because if it was for one of those reasons, things might be different).

After the divorce and the dust settled....wouldn't you still want to remain friends with Dug? In your case you have children together, so there would be even more reason to want to be friends. But let's say all the kids were grown and moved out. Would you still be friends and still love each other?


----------



## Faithful Wife

DayOne said:


> Not judging, FW, though I can see it might be read that way. Simply expressing concern, as someone on the outside looking in.


No worries, I didn't think you were judging. I get it that from the outside it appears that my relationship with my ex could be holding me back.

And yes if that was true and I couldn't see it myself...I would want people to point it out to me.

My friends, mother, and kids are close to me and know about my relationship with my ex (and my kids and mom still have a relationship with him, too). They would tell me if I didn't have my head on straight and I trust their guidance. They have been so wonderful to me and my ex too, as we went through this divorce, moving, etc. They've got my back. :smthumbup:


----------



## jld

Faithful Wife said:


> jld...I can't imagine any situation where you and Dug would be divorced...but let's say for some reason it happened (not due to cheating or violence or addiction...just throwing those parameters in there because if it was for one of those reasons, things might be different).
> 
> After the divorce and the dust settled....wouldn't you still want to remain friends with Dug? In your case you have children together, so there would be even more reason to want to be friends. But let's say all the kids were grown and moved out. Would you still be friends and still love each other?


Of course. I have now spent more years of my life with Dug than without him. We're family. Like two vines that have grown up all tangled up in each other. No separating that.

No matter what would ever happen to Dug, I can't ever imagine not loving him. Moreover, I can't imagine his ever not loving me! I was his first child! His love for me is unconditional, like breathing. I don't think he could ever stop loving me.

I did not want to say anything a few weeks ago, but I thought that boyfriend was pretty controlling, FW. Someone mature and understanding would not have made demands on you. He would have understood your attachment and let you detach, if necessary, at your own pace.

I really hope you meet someone who really loves you, really nurtures you and accepts you just the way you are. You have so much to offer. You need someone worthy of that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

jld said:


> I did not want to say anything a few weeks ago, but I thought that boyfriend was pretty controlling, FW. Someone mature and understanding would not have made demands on you. He would have understood your attachment and let you detach, if necessary, at your own pace.
> 
> I really hope you meet someone who really loves you, really nurtures you and accepts you just the way you are. You have so much to offer. You need someone worthy of that.


Thank you jld...I know I will meet someone when I am ready.

I agree with you that the boyfriend could have been more mature about my relationship with my ex....however, I also understood his position because of the circumstances and because *most* people would feel threatened like he was. It is just normal in our society to feel this way and people are conditioned to it so they feel justified. Or they may have been cheated on or left by someone who went back to their ex so they have a wound there associated with that.

And as I go forward, just dating people but not trying to have a deeper committed relationship, I wouldn't make any changes to my life for them with regards to my ex-h. It is really none of their business, and their relationships with others is none of my business either.

In the end it didn't matter anyway because he can't handle conflict lovingly so...game over.

I really love being able to look back on it and just smile about the good times and fun and great sex we had, without wishing for anything to be any different. It is a sign of maturity for ME to be able to have a fun short term relationship and then a break up without sadness, regret or drama. Keep the best, forget the rest.


----------



## Duguesclin

Faithful Wife said:


> jld...I can't imagine any situation where you and Dug would be divorced...but let's say for some reason it happened (not due to cheating or violence or addiction...just throwing those parameters in there because if it was for one of those reasons, things might be different).
> 
> After the divorce and the dust settled....wouldn't you still want to remain friends with Dug? In your case you have children together, so there would be even more reason to want to be friends. But let's say all the kids were grown and moved out. Would you still be friends and still love each other?


The problem with being friends with JLD is that I would still want to have sex with her, and I am sure she would feel the same way. So it would be very hard to date other people.

Divorce would really be a bad idea for us. I just can't see it. 

Divorce is definitely not in my plans.


----------



## tech-novelist

So are you going to be changing your user name to "Faithful Ex-Wife"? >


----------



## Faithful Wife

tech-novelist said:


> So are you going to be changing your user name to "Faithful Ex-Wife"? >


Ha! No, but cute idea.

To be really accurate though, I would change my name to Faithful Friend, if it was referring to my ex-h...because I do believe we will always have a true and loving friendship, above and beyond being each other's ex.

I ended up seeing him every night this weekend, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. He is helping me at my new place, getting things in place, pictures hung, etc.

My new place is very swanky with beautiful high ceilings and huge windows and an awesome view. It has a great wide open floor plan and feels very fresh and modern, and the beautiful view from the windows makes it seem like you are in a resort somewhere.

So I told my ex the next time my mom goes to spend the weekend with my brother, I'd like to have him over for the weekend and we could party like the old days and he could stay over and we'd cook and have mimosas in the morning. He said he'd love to do that. And we both know this wouldn't lead to sex yet we still want to do it! :grin2:

Oh and also...he bought a motorcycle after we split up. When I saw it in his garage this weekend, I said "hey....if I get a helmet maybe you can take me for a ride sometime?" He said "really, you'd do that??" (because he knows I am afraid of bikes and have never ridden on them with anyone). I said "sure, with you...I trust you and would feel safe with you, I can't imagine doing it with anyone else". So I look forward to that, too. The ex-boyfriend had a bike and wanted me to ride on the back of it, but I stalled and put him off on that...I never really felt enough trust to do that. Plus he has a small fast bike while my ex-h got a Road King so, the bike itself is safer.

We do have a unique relationship...I cherish it.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks Life. That was my 2nd marriage, however. So I already took that gamble you are speaking of, and it ended in D. I can't do that a 3rd time. The stats on 3rd marriages ending in divorce are so ridiculously high, I can't believe anyone does it.
> 
> However...I still believe in marriage and respect everyone who is married...it is not the institution of marriage that caused me to be divorced twice. It is/was my own choices.
> 
> Having learned this finally, clearly no one should ever marry me!
> 
> The fact that anyone would even want to is sort of perplexing to me. I really just have no need to merge like that. But it is a sweet romantic notion for many people. Including my boyfriend.
> 
> Nice to hear from you, Life.


Sort of the old "I'd never get married to someone who'd marry me"


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## manfromlamancha

Just so that I am clear - this is the husband that you stayed married to but lived in different houses ? If I understand it correct everything was great apart from living together. Great sex. Great friendship. Loved each other. Helped each other, etc.

So what happened ? Why did you get divorced in the end, when that seemed to be working for you ?


The reason I ask is that I believe that you are still in love with him and this friends only thing is you lying to yourself. You love him and are in love with him - clearly. You enjoyed sex with him too.

So again, why did you two get divorced ?


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## Faithful Wife

manfromlamancha said:


> Just so that I am clear - this is the husband that you stayed married to but lived in different houses ? If I understand it correct everything was great apart from living together. Great sex. Great friendship. Loved each other. Helped each other, etc.
> 
> So what happened ? Why did you get divorced in the end, when that seemed to be working for you ?
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is that I believe that you are still in love with him and this friends only thing is you lying to yourself. You love him and are in love with him - clearly. You enjoyed sex with him too.
> 
> So again, why did you two get divorced ?


It is too complicated to explain why we finally had to get divorced...it is not a straight forward answer. But the shortest version possible is that I eventually wanted more sex, companionship and affection than we could have while living apart...but we were not happy living together, so that was out already and we knew better than to try it again.

When we first decided to get the divorce, I was devastated for months and yes was still in love with him. He was still in love with me, too. We very slowly and deliberately helped each other through this process of accepting our break up and eventually...slowly...we were able to really let go, lovingly but not "in love" anymore. 

We now love each other in a much deeper and more meaningful way than "romantic love". We now feel an unconditional love...which is truly incredible and is something I've never experienced before.

Yep, we loved having sex with each other. 

But I love having sex with any compatible partner....compatible for me would include a deep capacity for intimacy and extreme fondness for each other so it isn't like my ex was the only person in the world I will enjoy having sex with.

I understand that many may not understand my story, and that's ok. We were never a conventional couple or individuals so I'm used to people not getting me.


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## manfromlamancha

Faithful Wife said:


> It is too complicated to explain why we finally had to get divorced...it is not a straight forward answer. But the shortest version possible is that I eventually wanted more sex, companionship and affection than we could have while living apart...but we were not happy living together, so that was out already and we knew better than to try it again.
> 
> When we first decided to get the divorce, I was devastated for months and yes was still in love with him. He was still in love with me, too. We very slowly and deliberately helped each other through this process of accepting our break up and eventually...slowly...we were able to really let go, lovingly but not "in love" anymore.
> 
> We now love each other in a much deeper and more meaningful way than "romantic love". We now feel an unconditional love...which is truly incredible and is something I've never experienced before.
> 
> Yep, we loved having sex with each other.
> 
> But I love having sex with any compatible partner....compatible for me would include a deep capacity for intimacy and extreme fondness for each other so it isn't like my ex was the only person in the world I will enjoy having sex with.
> 
> I understand that many may not understand my story, and that's ok. We were never a conventional couple or individuals so I'm used to people not getting me.



You're right I don't fully understand it but I guess, to each his own. You are saying that it worked really well to start with (in your previous thread) but now it seems that you wanted more sex etc and it didn't matter with who as one as they were loving and intimate. So the bond with your (ex)husband was not strong enough to overcome this need for more sex. Like I said, I see it differently and as you said, don't understand why you just wouldn't call a spade a spade - you want more and maybe different sex but still want him around for help and support.

I also agree with others that the moniker "FaithfulWife" is not the right one but for different reasons.


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## Faithful Wife

manfromlamancha said:


> You're right I don't fully understand it but I guess, to each his own. You are saying that it worked really well to start with (in your previous thread) but now it seems that you wanted more sex etc and it didn't matter with who as one as they were loving and intimate. So the bond with your (ex)husband was not strong enough to overcome this need for more sex. Like I said, I see it differently and as you said, don't understand why you just wouldn't call a spade a spade - you want more and maybe different sex but still want him around for help and support.
> 
> I also agree with others that the moniker "FaithfulWife" is not the right one but for different reasons.


Exactly how much help and support do you think I'm getting from my ex-h? You must think I'm just zapping him dry of all of his energy, meanwhile screwing other men? Gee, that's nice of you to project into my story something which you must assume about me or women in general or whatever you are projecting.

And as your for jab at the end....I don't know you, you don't know me (regardless of what you think you know of my story)...but sure, go ahead and say mean things to me on my thread, that's very sweet of you, thanks, stranger.

The reality of my story is completely heartbreaking to me, has nothing to do with infidelity, includes years of painful trying and yearning which ultimately still could not change the trajectory, and has much more detail than I have ever included here at TAM....but yeah, you know more about my story than even I do, because that makes total sense that an internet stranger would know more about me than I do.

Thanks for your "interest".


----------



## EllisRedding

Just to add regarding FWs username. At least to my knowledge from reading her threads, there is no indication that infidelity occurred within their marriage. If anything, it appears they both recognized there were incompatibilities that led to needs being unmet, so the right thing to do was to go the D route (as opposed to going the infidelity route which someone else may have chosen).

If terms of the "Wife" part of her username, guess what, I am not actually Ellis Redding (although ironically I am wearing a Shawshank Penitentiary shirt at work today lol).

I will add though, and maybe where it comes across as different or confusing to some, you would always refer to your ex as "Sex God" (which if I am being completely honest, got old quick and came across rather "braggy" at times, I am not trying to take a pot shot at you on this so hopefully you don't take as such), but in one of your last posts here you comment that you love having sex with any compatible partner. Not in any way knocking you in that regard, but you can hopefully understand why it is confusing to some extent to reconcile between the two.


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## manfromlamancha

EllisRedding said:


> Just to add regarding FWs username. At least to my knowledge from reading her threads, there is no indication that infidelity occurred within their marriage. If anything, it appears they both recognized there were incompatibilities that led to needs being unmet, so the right thing to do was to go the D route (as opposed to going the infidelity route which someone else may have chosen).
> 
> If terms of the "Wife" part of her username, guess what, I am not actually Ellis Redding (although ironically I am wearing a Shawshank Penitentiary shirt at work today lol).
> 
> *I will add though, and maybe where it comes across as different or confusing to some, you would always refer to your ex as "Sex God" (which if I am being completely honest, got old quick and came across rather "braggy" at times, I am not trying to take a pot shot at you on this so hopefully you don't take as such), but in one of your last posts here you comment that you love having sex with any compatible partner. Not in any way knocking you in that regard, but you can hopefully understand why it is confusing to some extent to reconcile between the two.*


This is exactly what I am referring to. Seems kind of cold that suddenly any body could take the place of sex-god hubby who as it turns out wasn't providing enough sex. This turnaround suggests that living apart gave you the opportunity to find someone new - and if you are honestly saying that you did not find someone new before your divorce came through then I stand corrected on the "fidelity" front.

Furthermore, I am not saying that you are getting a lot of help from your ex but you do seem to keep him hanging on and around you as "a good friend" who supports you. As you said (and I agreed) I don't really understand you and even less your ex - why would he stay around someone that dumped him for more sex ????

Take it as you well but I am calling it as I see it from your various posts and threads. As for projecting, yes I am kind of tired of hearing from spouses that have left their marriages due to wanting more and different sex after having said that the sex they were getting was great! You need to hear what you are saying from a third party point of view especially when there are so many entitled cheating spouses around.


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## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> I will add though, and maybe where it comes across as different or confusing to some, you would always refer to your ex as "Sex God" (which if I am being completely honest, got old quick and came across rather "braggy" at times, I am not trying to take a pot shot at you on this so hopefully you don't take as such), but in one of your last posts here you comment that you love having sex with any compatible partner. Not in any way knocking you in that regard, but you can hopefully understand why it is confusing to some extent to reconcile between the two.


My ex is most certainly a Sex God...and I understand why when I was here before I sounded braggy about that fact. The fact is that I was so in love with him that I could not help myself from bragging about him. I know that was off putting to some people, and I apologize for being so over the top crazy for him that I came off as arrogant. 

There are also things about my ex-h which I never shared here and never will, because those things would have hurt his feelings if I shared them since they are so personal and would have put him in a negative light without him even being here to defend himself or give his side of the story. But those things I did not share are a large part of the reason we eventually had to divorce. I will never put him in a negative light for those things, because they are not something he has any control over and they are things he will personally struggle with forever. I loved him too much to ever share the full story...it would not be fair or kind to him.

As for loving to have sex with any compatible partner, that is just normal for highly sexual people, I believe. My ex-h loved having sex with me, but he also loved having sex with his previous partners. We both loved having sex with each other more than anyone before (or anyone after for me, I don't think he's been with anyone since), because we loved each other so deeply and because we had over a decade to learn each other and become better and better lovers to each other.

When we first discussed actual divorce, at that time I could not even picture kissing anyone else. I did not want anyone else and had not wanted anyone else for the whole time we were together. I was devastated and literally had to force myself to accept that we would no longer be lovers...my heart, mind, body and soul belonged to him...so I felt completely lost without him and did not even want to consider moving on with anyone else. It was an agonizing journey for me to try to get my mind around a new life, a new sex life, and a the loss of him.

But I knew I could not go back and that this is where I am now. I spent a long time getting to a better place, through some spiritual practices I had been studying (and still do)...and finally I got to where I could move on. Though at first I still felt conflicted because my body did not want to be with anyone else and I had a feeling in my heart that I was not supposed to be with anyone else, that this was all a big mistake, that somehow maybe somehow we could still find our way back...

I got over this by will power and those spiritual practices...and then I got ok with it. Later, I got even better than ok with it and now I am doing well. I am truly moving on now, at least with dating and new partners, and the knowledge that eventually I will want a deep, committed relationship again. And I can now even see that I will be happier in the long run, because although I loved my ex more than I can possibly explain...I also know that we simply can't be happy together and we both want each other's happiness above all. 

My ex was strong, loving and wonderful to me throughout my process. He helped me emotionally by being truly my friend. When I would get weak again and try to be with him or suggest maybe couldn't we just....he would be strong and love me and would never lead me on, was just my friend and my rock. He knew that if we tried to go back it would hurt all over again to let go. So he would never hurt me that way. He was much stronger than I was. He was true to me in that way, because my overall well being so important to him, and he would not allow us to temporarily have a set back no matter how nice it would have been in the short run.

When we see each other now, we feel different. We don't feel that longing to be together, we don't feel "in love". We feel a much deeper love, something neither of us knew we had in us at all for each other or anyone else. And now I no longer wish and pray that things could be different. I love him exactly as he is...exactly where he is...which is no longer with me.


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## manfromlamancha

And to add to my last post, fyi, I started out actually believing that you were still in love with him, but you shot that down in your last post.


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## Tiggy!

I think FW meant there wasn't enough sex whilst living apart, not when they were living together.


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## Faithful Wife

manfromlamancha said:


> This is exactly what I am referring to. Seems kind of cold that suddenly any body could take the place of sex-god hubby who as it turns out wasn't providing enough sex. This turnaround suggests that living apart gave you the opportunity to find someone new - and if you are honestly saying that you did not find someone new before your divorce came through then I stand corrected on the "fidelity" front.


There was never anyone else. I would have preferred to stay married to him forever. I would have preferred to have not been separated, but we tried that as a way to save our marriage. When I say I wanted more sex and affection than I was getting while separated, I meant I wanted it from him...and yet we knew we could not go back to living together. I would have tried living together again, but he would not, because he knew it would ultimately cause more pain because we could not work it out.

I did not speak to any other man at all until after the divorce was final, and even then, I still wished I didn't have to move on.


----------



## karole

I must admit, I really don't understand the whole relationship either, but to each their own and I do wish you the best!


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## EllisRedding

Appreciate the feedback FW


----------



## john117

Let's play doctor, FW. (not THAT kind of doctor  )

On a scale of 0-100, how would you rate your intimate life with ex? Your emotional life? Your everyday life?

Now, run these 3 numbers for the ex-bf, and for your current, unattached state.

This here doctor thinks that while you were not at 100% on your metrics with ex, you aren't at 100% now as single, and will take a fair amount of work to get there. Don't include your ex in the single metrics (no double dipping).

Your choice, based on the information available, is not rational in my view. It's the old I'll give you $90 or you can flip a coin @ 50/50 odds to get $100. How many people do you think will go for the second choice?

Just curious...


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> *Your choice,* *based on the information available, is not rational in my view*.


John, I must be daft. You are saying "my choice isn't rational in your view". This implies a choice I have already made. What choice?


----------



## UMP

Faithful Wife said:


> I do not ever want to be legally married again (because then I can never be divorced again  ) but I do think the new boyfriend might want that. I'm discussing things like this with him now so as not to lead him down any path with me that doesn't head to where he wants to go.


That's EXACTLY what I told my girlfriend after my first marriage.
I said "I will never get married again", "I never want kids", "I do not want to have a large property", "no dogs", "no pool" and definitely no "farm animals."

Been married to her for 25 years, have 3 children, 3 dogs, a pool, 24 acres, 2 donkeys and 2 goats. 

Man am I pusssy whipped!

Actually, I love every minute of it....well, most anyway.

I did draw the line at no chickens. I hate those dirty creatures even though they make eggs. A man must have his boundaries. LOL!


----------



## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> What choice?


$90 without any effort or a 50% chance at $100. What would most people choose?


----------



## Faithful Wife

UMP said:


> That's EXACTLY what I told my girlfriend after my first marriage.
> I said "I will never get married again", "I never want kids", "I do not want to have a large property", "no dogs", "no pool" and definitely no "farm animals."
> 
> Been married to her for 25 years, have 3 children, 3 dogs, a pool, 24 acres, 2 donkeys and 2 goats.
> 
> Man am I pusssy whipped!
> 
> Actually, I love every minute of it....well, most anyway.
> 
> I did draw the line at no chickens. I hate those dirty creatures even though they make eggs. A man must have his boundaries. LOL!


But this was my second marriage @UMP ...if you got divorced a second time, from your second wife who you love so much, do you think you'd ever get married a third time? Let's say the second divorce also emotionally devastated you because she was the love of your life. Still think you'd be ready to marry again one day?

Ever checked the stats on the likelihood of a 3rd marriage ending in divorce? It is something like 80%.

Trust me...I've had enough divorces to know better. I've used up my quota. I can love as much and be as committed as I ever was when I was married (because to me that was always an emotional decision, not a legal one)...and I know I will have love like that again one day.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> $90 without any effort or a 50% chance at $100. What would most people choose?


I edited post # 66...will you please read it again?


----------



## john117

I re-read it. But it seems to me you felt you were not attaining 100% with ex under the best of circumstances, so you decided to end that type of relationship.

The ex - and I'm assigning number values arbitrarily - was the $90. You get 90% of what you want, no additional effort needed. Steady state.

Today you're at a point where you have a chance at 100%, but nothing is certain. 50-50 again is a number. 

Most people would go for the safe choice, especially given the practical limitations of age, time, geography, money, and many other factors that play into our decisions. 

Unless the extra value added is the search process itself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> I re-read it. But it seems to me you felt you were not attaining 100% with ex under the best of circumstances, so you decided to end that type of relationship.
> 
> The ex - and I'm assigning number values arbitrarily - was the $90. You get 90% of what you want, no additional effort needed. Steady state.
> 
> Today you're at a point where you have a chance at 100%, but nothing is certain. 50-50 again is a number.
> 
> Most people would go for the safe choice, especially given the practical limitations of age, time, geography, money, and many other factors that play into our decisions.
> 
> Unless the extra value added is the search process itself.


You haven't factored in numbers for the down side of things...the things that feel bad, not good. With him, even when separated, there were things that felt bad (angst and anxiety about our future, sadness about not being able to just have a normal marriage, disagreements about various things, endless talks trying to fix things that never got fixed because they were unfixable all along). 

I don't have those things making me unhappy or feel bad now. And I do have many things back (things that any single person has but most married people don't) that add to my happiness (the ability to travel where and when I want, to make financial decisions without any input from anyone, to take risks that you can't take if someone else depends on you).

I don't know how to make a scale for those things...but I can say I am happier now simply because I no longer have angst about my future, nor about having to make that difficult decision (it is already behind us now).

Funny though...I have said before that 90% was good and 10% was really bad and that the 10% is what did us in...and most people have responded like "wow, seems like the 90% would have made it worth it". But that's only people who did not know us personally. The people who did know us personally, get it. They saw it. They understand why the 10% killed us (though they were all heartbroken for us and had always assumed we would make it).

Please understand John...if my ex had not been the strong one...I would still be trying and trying and beating my head against the same wall. He basically was the one to be strong enough to not let either of us do that anymore. I was not that strong....as apparently I had brain damage by then from the head beating, and I was always wanting to try again, until the very last moment and beyond.

But now I'm grateful for his strength. It was exactly what had to happen. And he handled it with such kindness and class and true love.


----------



## john117

Understood... But you have such down issues with any relationship regardless of quality. 

I have no doubt that the 10% would cause issues. That's how it usually works I suppose. Coupled with an emotionally intense personality or two it could mess with the 90% pretty quickly.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Understood... But you have such down issues with any relationship regardless of quality.
> 
> I have no doubt that the 10% would cause issues. That's how it usually works I suppose. Coupled with an emotionally intense personality or two it could mess with the 90% pretty quickly.


It is true there will be issues with any relationship. I don't think they will be the same kind of issues (I would know how to avoid that now). Who knows, maybe I'm just doomed and all relationships will be like this for me....but keep in mind, in the end I had no choice. So there's that.


----------



## jld

Faithful Wife said:


> It is true there will be issues with any relationship. I don't think they will be the same kind of issues (I would know how to avoid that now). Who knows, maybe I'm just doomed and all relationships will be like this for me....but keep in mind, *in the end I had no choice. So there's that.*


That had to have been so painful.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> He basically was the one to be strong enough to not let either of us do that anymore....
> 
> But now I'm grateful for his strength. It was exactly what had to happen. And he handled it with such kindness and class and true love.


Ah, OK! Now things are starting to make sense...

@Faithful Wife let me play devil's advocate for a moment as it may help me learn something about myself. If he had to be strong and end it, "something" rather harsh was happening that he could see was hurting both him and yourself. I have not read all your posts, but you vaguely post that you wanted more and he did not. You also broke up with a recent boyfriend upon your first lover's quarrel. 

If you HAD to choose between one of the following which would it be:

A) Awesome lover with a fiery temper.
B) Less than adequate lover with the patience of a saint.

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> Ah, OK! Now things are starting to make sense...
> 
> @Faithful Wife let me play devil's advocate for a moment as it may help me learn something about myself. If he had to be strong and end it, "something" rather harsh was happening that he could see was hurting both him and yourself. I have not read all your posts, but you vaguely post that you wanted more and he did not. You also broke up with a recent boyfriend upon your first lover's quarrel.
> 
> If you HAD to choose between one of the following which would it be:
> 
> A) Awesome lover with a fiery temper.
> B) Less than adequate lover with the patience of a saint.
> 
> Badsanta


I would choose A, of course...but the fiery temper isn't really a problem to me, as long as a person knows how to self-soothe. I can be fiery, too. I'm not so much anymore as I've been focusing on being calm lately (for over a year now that has been my focus). But I still got that fire in mah soul.


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> You also broke up with a recent boyfriend upon your first lover's quarrel.


Oh and...update....I'm seeing boyfriend again.


----------



## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh and...update....I'm seeing boyfriend again.


Is this mutual or more like a stalking type of relationship :wink2::grin2:


----------



## john117

At the risk of asking the obvious, can you self-soothe to the extent of not seeing anyone for a while? Maybe you're emotionally overloading yourself.


----------



## badsanta

EllisRedding said:


> Is this mutual or more like a stalking type of relationship :wink2::grin2:


He is not a stalker if she is OK with it!


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> EllisRedding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this mutual or more like a stalking type of relationship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is not a stalker if she is OK with it!
Click to expand...

I think he means I am the stalker, if I'm "seeing him"...such as seeing him across a parking lot with binoculars. 

But no, he's seeing me, too.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> At the risk of asking the obvious, can you self-soothe to the extent of not seeing anyone for a while? Maybe you're emotionally overloading yourself.


Is really a fair question but...I haven't been in a regular sexual relationship for well over a year...and have only dated a handful of guys in the past 6 months...none of whom were a "relationship ". So it isn't like I've been man hopping for the past year. There's a timeline here that is healthier than that.

While we were broken up for the past couple of weeks I got to use all my chill zen practices. When we talked again about what went wrong, I knew we were going to be ok to see each other again.

I'm a grown up.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> I would choose A, of course...but the fiery temper isn't really a problem to me, as long as a person knows how to self-soothe. *I can be fiery, too. I'm not so much anymore as I've been focusing on being calm lately (for over a year now that has been my focus).* But I still got that fire in mah soul.


OK, so you admit along with fiery passion also comes a struggle to self sooth, a struggle for which you have been focusing on now for a year. 

You and I BOTH know that choosing (A) while more exciting is going to be like mixing gasoline and matches. Don't try and fool yourself! But knowing that you still choose (A) over (B) because you fear a boring relationship. 

Did you know my wife often accuses me of being the most boring person on the planet? Seriously, and after 20 years she should know me by now. But yet she still loves me and puts up with me. I'll even admit myself that I can be a boring person to be around because I do not like crowds of people. Personally I enjoy nothing more than alone time and having the house all to myself. When my wife travels over seas with the kids to spend time with her family, I'm often a hermit for up to two months out of the year. I enjoy that time alone. 

If you had to be home alone for two months, could you enjoy spending that time just with yourself? Or would you be desperate to find someone or do something?

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> *OK, so you admit along with fiery passion also comes a struggle to self sooth, a struggle for which you have been focusing on now for a year*.
> 
> You and I BOTH know that choosing (A) while more exciting is going to be like mixing gasoline and matches. Don't try and fool yourself! But knowing that you still choose (A) over (B) because you fear a boring relationship.
> 
> Did you know my wife often accuses me of being the most boring person on the planet? Seriously, and after 20 years she should know me by now. But yet she still loves me and puts up with me. I'll even admit myself that I can be a boring person to be around because I do not like crowds of people. Personally I enjoy nothing more than alone time and having the house all to myself. When my wife travels over seas with the kids to spend time with her family, I'm often a hermit for up to two months out of the year. I enjoy that time alone.
> 
> *If you had to be home alone for two months, could you enjoy spending that time just with yourself? Or would you be desperate to find someone or do something?*
> 
> Badsanta


I don't know if you are understanding the full story here, my friend.

First of all, I was home alone every night for much longer than two months. Between the time while I was separated and we were verging on the point of deciding to divorce, until sometime after my divorce when I could finally pull my head off of a pillow....was more like 8 or 9 months. Before that, there had been another several months of confusion and trying to figure things out...and technically most of that time I was alone. 

Then after the divorce, there were the many many nights that I was still home alone, actually enjoying my own company, even while I was technically "on the market"...because there are just times when you are dating or open to dating, but nothing is going on (no matches are showing up, or you just don't get asked out for a couple of weeks, or you are just too busy to accept a date for a time period, or whatever).

Then there was the week vacation I took to Hawaii with my family in March of this year, and the other week vacation I took to Florida with my (cougar) sister in May of this year. Both of these weeks were exclusively spent with myself or with my family or with my sister....no boys on my radar (except one lovely man I made out with while I was in Florida...just a nice make out, that was it, never saw him again).

Then there are the countless nights I've spent helping others (usually family members or close friends) with various things....and the built in time I spend with my family every week (my adult kids and grandkids all get a piece of me every week...which I love). I also work full time.

So it may appear from the little I have shared of my story that I'm just out man hunting every night but that is not even close to my reality. I'm plenty happy with my own company and have been so for a long time now. There was a time when I was completely devastated...but that's pretty normal for post divorce emotions. The rest of the time I have been just working on myself (and really enjoying that).

As for fiery passion and self-soothing....no, I'm not saying there is always a direct correlation. You only gave me two choices, A. or B....one was fiery and one was a lousy lover....so I picked A.

I know lots of people who have passion but who are also able to self soothe. I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that it is impossible or anything like that. I also know people who have a fiery temper but don't have passion, and people who have passion who don't have a fiery temper. Remember I just answered your limited question, I did not describe my own experience or tastes.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Oh and PS....I am also somewhat boring...I'm naturally introverted (even though I can be very extroverted at times...my nature is an introvert). That means I love going home to my own place and curling up in my cozy nest...sometimes I even resent that my mother is there because I truly want to soak up my alone time but it is impossible to be completely alone when you literally aren't completely alone. (My mom hardly needs any help from me, but still, her being there means I rarely have my own apartment to myself).

I don't talk to my neighbors, or any strangers, really. I can't stand being pushed into talking to strangers actually...when I am out with extroverted people who talk to everyone, I'm always trying to hide or run away.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> As for fiery passion and self-soothing....no, I'm not saying there is always a direct correlation. You only gave me two choices, A. or B....one was fiery and one was a lousy lover....so I picked A.


Me personally I would choose B. Perhaps that is a product of being married for so long. The other day my wife was complaining in a doctor's appointment that she had ZERO libido. I was surprised to feel myself react to her words. My first response was that I did not want her to try anything stupid, because I understand her libido and I'm also confident that I can work with that. The second thing I felt was to know that she actually cares about that and actually brought it up on her own, and just that meant a lot to me. 

It can be easy to love someone that is easy to love, but it means more when you actually have to put some effort into it. You also have to appreciate that for our partners (my wife and your ex), that we are not exactly easy to love either. 

You choose that you will never remarry, but I choose B and to stay married. I'm not bragging, as perhaps my wife is just not as strong as you ex to be the one to end things. But in light of that I'll gather up my strength to continue learning how to be patient for her as she is for me.

Badsanta


----------



## john117

Ultimately it's a matter of finding inner peace whether you choose A, B, or Z. 

It's like product design. You make your choices based on the information and requirements you have today, design the thing, and off the door it goes. You can't really second guess yourself too much. You have to have inner strength to believe that you've done your best and if the consumer hates it, live and learn. 

But you don't get obsessed over having the perfect design because it'll never happen. There's always compromises, hidden requirements, and surprises and how you and your team deal with them defines you as a designer and leader...


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for fiery passion and self-soothing....no, I'm not saying there is always a direct correlation. You only gave me two choices, A. or B....one was fiery and one was a lousy lover....so I picked A.
> 
> 
> 
> Me personally I would choose B. Perhaps that is a product of being married for so long. The other day my wife was complaining in a doctor's appointment that she had ZERO libido. I was surprised to feel myself react to her words. My first response was that I did not want her to try anything stupid, because I understand her libido and I'm also confident that I can work with that. The second thing I felt was to know that she actually cares about that and actually brought it up on her own, and just that meant a lot to me.
> 
> It can be easy to love someone that is easy to love, but it means more when you actually have to put some effort into it. You also have to appreciate that for our partners (my wife and your ex), that we are not exactly easy to love either.
> 
> You choose that you will never remarry, but I choose B and to stay married. I'm not bragging, as perhaps my wife is just not as strong as you ex to be the one to end things. But in light of that I'll gather up my strength to continue learning how to be patient for her as she is for me.
> 
> Badsanta
Click to expand...

I understand @badsanta of course. 

But you gave me two hypothetical options, neither of which was a spouse I am in love with. I only chose between the options given, not from the position you are in. I love that your choice is your wife.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> I understand @badsanta of course.
> 
> But you gave me two hypothetical options, neither of which was a spouse I am in love with. I only chose between the options given, not from the position you are in. I love that your choice is your wife.


But you already admitted that your ex was strong and in a very loving way stopped you from hurting each other, and that you would have never had the strength to do that. You also admitted he was an incredible lover. He was neither A nor B. 

The purpose of that question was that along with a fiery temper in my opinion also comes rejection within the relationship. You have to fight through that rejection in order to get what is felt to be love. 

You are a fighter! You have to be! I admire that you are willing to fight for what you want. Nothing wrong with that choice. It was not right or wrong, but just A or B.


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> But you already admitted that your ex was strong and in a very loving way stopped you from hurting each other, and that you would have never had the strength to do that. You also admitted he was an incredible lover. He was neither A nor B.
> 
> The purpose of that question was that along with a fiery temper in my opinion also comes rejection within the relationship. You have to fight through that rejection in order to get what is felt to be love.
> 
> You are a fighter! You have to be! I admire that you are willing to fight for what you want. Nothing wrong with that choice. It was not right or wrong, but just A or B.


Bad Santa...your post really doesn't work...because no one here has all the information. 

I wanted my marriage to work. He wanted it to work, too. We tried for over 12 years. We could not have made it work no matter how long we tried. When he finally came to that realization (which was before I did), he made the decision to end our trying. The end.

9 months after the D is final, I am now rising from the ashes.

There's no other outcome here, it is a done deal.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Bad Santa...*your post really doesn't work..*.because no one here has all the information.
> 
> I wanted my marriage to work. He wanted it to work, too. We tried for over 12 years. We could not have made it work no matter how long we tried. When he finally came to that realization (which was before I did), he made the decision to end our trying. The end.
> 
> 9 months after the D is final, I am now rising from the ashes.
> 
> There's no other outcome here, it is a done deal.


Mt post was only meant to be thought provoking in an attempt to learn. It was never meant to try and solve a problem or help improve a situation for you or me, other than to perhaps talk about things in a hypothetical situation. Let me ask again so you can see exactly what I was thinking when I asked:

You mentioned you just broke up with your boyfriend over an argument. Regardless what the argument was about, at that moment you felt like it justified ending the relationship and moving on to something else. I often feel that way in my own marriage and I am appalled at myself when I feel that way. I also have a very active and healthy libido which my wife finds to be problematic for her to avoid hurting me since she rarely has any desire. So my question was more about:

A) Would you choose more sex if it also meant having to fight and argue with your partner often and struggle to get along on a day to day basis. 
B) Would you choose less sex if it meant having a peaceful relationship in which you get along much better with your partner on a day to day basis.

OK, now neither one of those choices paint the whole picture, but it is an exercise to make you think about a decision point that most people deal with on a daily basis. I probably did not ask this question in the best way, as I wanted to be a little vague and explore the topic. It was never meant to be a question about what it takes to have a successful marriage. Obviously if you want something that your partner is unwilling to give you, A) nor B) will create success. In my own marriage, if I were to be candid tends to be a balancing act between A) & B). 

Thanks for engaging me in the discussion. If I were to ask a question for solving problems I'd probably ask. 

A) Do you know that Costco has a job opening for someone to help sell more bulk coconut oil, but it rarely comes open?










B) Have you not figured that this position does not really exist, but people just go in and set up shop next to the coconut oil to meet like minded folks?












Coconut oil customer said:


> I buy it for my beard because it feels good in my face!





Faithful Wife said:


> You do know that.... ???





Coconut oil customer said:


> What time do you get off work?





Faithful Wife said:


> Right now!!!


Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## john117

I'll switch to using WD-40 if I ever see that dude next to the Costco coconut oil pallets...


----------



## badsanta

john117 said:


> *I'll switch to using WD-40* if I ever see that dude next to the Costco coconut oil pallets...


 @john117 I think I just discovered what activated your wife's reptilian brain. 

At first she thought the cats were hissing from the spare bedroom while the door was shut, so she went to try and rescue them from whatever it was that had them so scared.... Things have never been the same sense. 

As for @Faithful Wife if she happens to run across an interesting person while shopping in Costco for coconut oil. For all we know she might meet a sexy female forrest ranger and get into a very interesting discussion!










...you know, a really good conversation on how to best catch a wild man!

Badsanta


----------



## john117

The reptilian brain is activated when the cat gallops across the ground floor family room and leaps onto the window because an insect is there... 22 lb worth of cat jumping is enough to scare anyone...


----------



## badsanta

john117 said:


> The reptilian brain is activated when the cat gallops across the ground floor family room and leaps onto the window because an insect is there... 22 lb worth of cat jumping is enough to scare anyone...


Sorry @Faithful Wife, I'll try and catch John and get him and myself out of your thread!
@john117 here kitty kitty!


----------



## Faithful Wife

No worries you guys...I'm glad you are keeping me company on my thread.

Ok boyfriend is back to boyfriend...we will see how this goes.

I really just want a drama free fun and sexual relationship right now. If he can keep his balance, that's what we have. Here's hoping and fingers crossed.


----------



## badsanta

@Faithful Wife I thought I would mention to you that when my wife heard the news of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie getting divorced, she immediately assumed that Brad wanted way too much sex because of how attractive Angelina is, and that she finally could not take it anymore. 

My wife was not joking, she honestly believed this was the reason. 

I tried to explain that it could just as easily go the other way around and said that perhaps Brad was the one that could not keep up with Angelina's libido, or that Brad would sometimes suffer from ED and that she had no patience for when he could not immediately get it up for her.

Her response was, "your sick to try and even think of Brad Pitt as someone that would suffer from ED because that only serves to feed your ego!"

Apparently in my wife's mind Brad Pitt's libido is just as unrelenting as his tank in the movie Fury:










So in your quest for companionship in life, keep in mind that most average men are made to feel as if their libido is unstoppable by public opinion of those like my wife. 

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thought I would drop by with another update....

So I'm dating my boyfriend guy again. I decided to give things another chance after a few weeks went by and we talked.

So far, things are good, but I assume it is only a matter of time before he shows that side of himself again. He says it won't happen, but I know better. 

In the meantime, I'm just enjoying him and enjoying myself. I love not being married/fully committed (for right now) and just living my life, while knowing I have this person to do fun things with, travel with, have sex with, plan adventures with. We can't get in fights over the usual living together or married stuff and we are both on our best behavior. This is really the sweet spot of relationships.....ahhhh.

Though I am not saying I prefer this or think it is better than the deeper places we get to when we are married or fully committed...it really isn't better. It just has a different, light and airy feel to it. Very nice.

When we talked and resumed seeing each other, I told him this time "I'm still going to be friends with my ex". He said "ok, I get it" and that was it. I have not brought it up since, but I have hung out with my ex a couple of times. I did not offer that info to the boyfriend but eventually he will ask me what I'm doing on some night when I planned to hang out with ex and it will come up. I'll see how it gets handled then, I assume he is going to play it cool because he doesn't want to lose me....but honestly, if he wants to stay in my life, he's going to have to understand that ex and I are friends and are going to occasionally see each other. I'm just going to hold firm on my position with that. 

I know that's kind of a sore subject around here. But I have honestly always been ok with exes and my partner's exes, so to me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal (as long as we really are not being sneaky or whatever, which we aren't).

Meanwhile....I'm just happy to be getting lots of good sex again. Man it sucks when you ain't gettin' any!! (As dozens of TAM regulars groan "tell us about it").


----------



## Anon Pink

Yea for your sex life, and adventure life, and fun with exes life!


Glad things are working out all the way around.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thanks Anon....I hope you are doing well!


----------



## 2asdf2

Faithful Wife said:


> Thought I would drop by with another update....
> 
> So I'm dating my boyfriend guy again. I decided to give things another chance after a few weeks went by and we talked.
> 
> *So far, things are good, but I assume it is only a matter of time before he shows that side of himself again. He says it won't happen, but I know better.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm just enjoying him and enjoying myself. I love not being married/fully committed (for right now) and just living my life, while knowing I have this person to do fun things with, travel with, have sex with, plan adventures with.* We can't get in fights over the usual living together or married stuff and we are both on our best behavior. This is really the sweet spot of relationships.....ahhhh.
> 
> Though I am not saying I prefer this or think it is better than the deeper places we get to when we are married or fully committed...it really isn't better. It just has a different, light and airy feel to it. Very nice.
> 
> When we talked and resumed seeing each other, I told him this time "I'm still going to be friends with my ex". He said "ok, I get it" and that was it. I have not brought it up since, but I have hung out with my ex a couple of times. I did not offer that info to the boyfriend but eventually he will ask me what I'm doing on some night when I planned to hang out with ex and it will come up. I'll see how it gets handled then, I assume he is going to play it cool because he doesn't want to lose me....but honestly, if he wants to stay in my life, he's going to have to understand that ex and I are friends and are going to occasionally see each other. I'm just going to hold firm on my position with that.
> 
> I know that's kind of a sore subject around here. But I have honestly always been ok with exes and my partner's exes, so to me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal (as long as we really are not being sneaky or whatever, which we aren't).
> 
> Meanwhile....I'm just happy to be getting lots of good sex again. Man it sucks when you ain't gettin' any!! (As dozens of TAM regulars groan "tell us about it").


Since that is how you view the situation, you should do like you did with your husband and let the guy be free. 

You said he is hoping for marriage and such, so he is in for some rough times.


----------



## Faithful Wife

2asdf2 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thought I would drop by with another update....
> 
> So I'm dating my boyfriend guy again. I decided to give things another chance after a few weeks went by and we talked.
> 
> *So far, things are good, but I assume it is only a matter of time before he shows that side of himself again. He says it won't happen, but I know better.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm just enjoying him and enjoying myself. I love not being married/fully committed (for right now) and just living my life, while knowing I have this person to do fun things with, travel with, have sex with, plan adventures with.* We can't get in fights over the usual living together or married stuff and we are both on our best behavior. This is really the sweet spot of relationships.....ahhhh.
> 
> Though I am not saying I prefer this or think it is better than the deeper places we get to when we are married or fully committed...it really isn't better. It just has a different, light and airy feel to it. Very nice.
> 
> When we talked and resumed seeing each other, I told him this time "I'm still going to be friends with my ex". He said "ok, I get it" and that was it. I have not brought it up since, but I have hung out with my ex a couple of times. I did not offer that info to the boyfriend but eventually he will ask me what I'm doing on some night when I planned to hang out with ex and it will come up. I'll see how it gets handled then, I assume he is going to play it cool because he doesn't want to lose me....but honestly, if he wants to stay in my life, he's going to have to understand that ex and I are friends and are going to occasionally see each other. I'm just going to hold firm on my position with that.
> 
> I know that's kind of a sore subject around here. But I have honestly always been ok with exes and my partner's exes, so to me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal (as long as we really are not being sneaky or whatever, which we aren't).
> 
> Meanwhile....I'm just happy to be getting lots of good sex again. Man it sucks when you ain't gettin' any!! (As dozens of TAM regulars groan "tell us about it").
> 
> 
> 
> Since that is how you view the situation, you should do like you did with your husband and let the guy be free.
> 
> You said he is hoping for marriage and such, so he is in for some rough times.
Click to expand...

Well, I do keep trying to set him free and he keeps saying he wants to be with me as long as we can work it out. I've told him I don't want to be married again and then just a couple of days ago I told him I could never live with him because he's too OCD about some things. He just said "naw, it will be fine...you'll just have to learn how to fold towels properly" with a chuckle.

Trust me, the guy isn't unaware, and he doesn't want to be set free. 

But just to be extra extra sure... I will try to discuss it with him again this weekend. Being that he only recently begged me to get back with him under any relationship status I would allow, I'm pretty sure what his answer will be...but I'll try.


----------



## 2asdf2

He is about to be used. Probably does not appreciate what he is heading towards.

You do. 

So, do the right thing before you hurt him any more.

You can do it!!!:smile2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

2asdf2 said:


> He is about to be used. Probably does not appreciate what he is heading towards.
> 
> You do.
> 
> So, do the right thing before you hurt him any more.
> 
> You can do it!!!


I'm not sure what you mean. He knows the score...we have talked about it many times, even before we broke up.

I really dig him and he knows that. I'm not wanting a deeper commitment right now and he knows that too. He did not want to be set free. 

He wants to be with me as long as we can. He knows the future is hazy. He still would not entertain being set free when I tried to do that.

We both get a lot out of this relationship.

Relationships don't always have to last forever. In fact, most don't. Are they any less meaningful? Some maybe, but many relationships that don't last forever can still be cherished and remembered fondly forever.


----------



## 2asdf2

The fact that you understood that BF would not like your continued association with your EX, but now that you have your BF over a barrel you are imposing a new condition about continuing to see your EX, tell me that you are using your BF. 

Or planning to.

Let him go. 

It is the right thing to do.


----------



## Faithful Wife

2asdf2 said:


> The fact that you understood that BF would not like your continued association with your EX, but now that you have your BF over a barrel you are imposing a new condition about continuing to see your EX, tell me that you are using your BF.
> 
> Or planning to.
> 
> Let him go.
> 
> It is the right thing to do.


Yes I am using him. He knows it. He wants me to use him over and over. And I plan to.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I am using him. He knows it. He wants me to use him over and over. And I plan to.


In moments of low self esteem / kind of joking, my wife will ask me why it is that I love her. I'll reply that I do not love her in any way whatsoever, but that I keep her around just to use her because doing so makes me unreasonably happy. She then smiles and asks if the sex is really that good for me, and I am like, "meh... it probably has more to do with fact that she is just extremely good at bargain shopping!" 

Badsanta


----------



## caruso

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I am using him. He knows it. He wants me to use him over and over. And I plan to.


Why not kick things up a notch and invite your good friend and exhubby into the bedroom with you and your boyfriend?

It seems like the next natural step.


----------



## rockon

caruso said:


> Why not kick things up a notch and invite your good friend and exhubby into the bedroom with you and your boyfriend?
> 
> It seems like the next natural step.


Sorry caruso, but this is over the top. Why do you like to stir the pot with most of your posts?


----------



## caruso

rockon said:


> Sorry caruso, but this is over the top. Why do you like to stir the pot with most of your posts?


She's using him for sex. She's still into her ex husband. She has stated the boyfriends discomfort with the ex is of no concern to her. He's just a piece of meat to her, she has made this clear. 

People have threesomes. I'd like one myself if I could have the opportunity but the third participant would be a woman not a guy.

Not seeing the problem here.


----------



## Faithful Wife

caruso said:


> rockon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry caruso, but this is over the top. Why do you like to stir the pot with most of your posts?
> 
> 
> 
> She's using him for sex. She's still into her ex husband. She has stated the boyfriends discomfort with the ex is of no concern to her. He's just a piece of meat to her, she has made this clear.
> 
> People have threesomes. I'd like one myself if I could have the opportunity but the third participant would be a woman not a guy.
> 
> Not seeing the problem here.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that my thread seems to trigger you. I don't know your story. Did you get used or something?

My boyfriend is a beautiful hunky piece of man meat, absolutely. But he's so much more than that. I'm crazy about him. We love each other, in fact.

All I've been saying seems to go right past you as you stick to what you think is going on instead of what I'm saying, so I don't have any reason to try to "convince" you of what my real truth is. You're free to assume what you want. I'm good with where I'm at and the relationship I have.

I don't know why you feel the need to make nasty comments about having a threesome. That was weird. I guess for some reason you feel you know me and have assigned me with a Jezebel label.


----------



## lucy999

caruso said:


> She's using him for sex. She's still into her ex husband. She has stated the boyfriends discomfort with the ex is of no concern to her. He's just a piece of meat to her, she has made this clear.
> 
> .


Yes. She made it clear to him too. 

Who the fvck cares? She's given him full disclosure. He knows the score. They're both consenting adults. 



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre*

lucy999 said:


> Yes. She made it clear to him too.
> 
> Who the fvck cares? She's given him full disclosure. He knows the score. They're both consenting adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


This. 

You were up front with him, Faithful Wife and that's what matters. You're honest with him, and if he chooses to continue knowing that it may very well end and not lead to marriage, that is his choice. Hoping it works out for you both.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thank you @*Deidre* and @lucy999

Yes, no one is being played here. 

The bottom line is, he hopes that by sticking around and being a great boyfriend (versus taking the option to split now) will make me see that we do have a long term future together. He knows there's a risk that we won't have that, but he's willing to take that risk. He has been dating for 6 years after his divorce, and I've come along and touched his life like no one else. He is not going to give that up. He's going to take the risk because to him, I am worth that risk....and because he is no worse off if it doesn't pan out than he was before he met me.

There is a chance we can have a long term future together....I simply can't promise one right now. He gets that.

He is smart. I can see the logic behind what he is doing, and frankly, it might just work exactly like he hopes it will. We do have something very nice going on.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> There is a chance we can have a long term future together....I simply can't promise one right now. He gets that.


 @Faithful Wife when I met my wife she told me under no circumstances was she looking for a serious relationship and that she just wanted to be friends. If he is anything like me when I met my wife you best watch out! He is slowly and quietly attaching little web of strings all over the place and the next thing you know, you will be trapped in his matrimonial web of love!










Does he shoot streams of weblike gooeyness from parts of his body just like spiderman?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Oh @badsanta ... You can make anything seem naughty!! You crack me up.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Faithful Wife said:


> Relationships don't always have to last forever. In fact, most don't. Are they any less meaningful? Some maybe, but many relationships that don't last forever can still be cherished and remembered fondly forever.


I think depending on a person's make up & what they deeply desire.. how they see their life unfolding.. this can be more hurtful over looking back with fondness.. I know our son who was dumped by his 1st love (almost 4 yrs) would rather have never had that relationship, never met her.... maybe he will reach this state someday -when he moves on to another... but for now.. it wasn't worth the pain..

Maybe some of us are just too sensitive too.. but that's who we are.. I don't know that we can help it... If I knew a guy never wanted to have a deeper relationship - when I did, or craved it.... I wouldn't even go there.. I would feel I was setting myself up for a terrible fall.. 

But yeah.. you've been honest with him.. so it's *his risk*.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> He has been dating for 6 years after his divorce, and I've come along and touched his life like no one else.





SimplyAmorous said:


> But yeah.. you've been honest with him.. so it's *his risk*.


If Faithful Wife was enjoying the company of a younger man that had never been married before, and was looking to settle down in life, then yes it would be a risky situation. But these two have been around the block so to speak in understanding long term relationships and the need for companionship. So I think what they have going is great.

Meanwhile I am more concerned for the ex husband if Faithful Wife still wants to be friends and hang out some nights in his hot tub. I'm scratching my head over that one! But I do not have the whole picture and their lives at this point are likely inseparable, so why not stay friends if both parties agree. But that will not stop me for from seeing a few red flags as did the current boyfriend...

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think depending on a person's make up & what they deeply desire.. how they see their life unfolding.. this can be more hurtful over looking back with fondness.. I know our son who was dumped by his 1st love (almost 4 yrs) would rather have never had that relationship, never met her.... maybe he will reach this state someday -when he moves on to another... but for now.. it wasn't worth the pain...


Yes....when you think of those loves that ended that crushed your heart it is hard to imagine being ok with it....but I think at our ages, things are a bit different....but it still hurts, usually for one more than the other one.

Is it worth it? I guess that is something everyone has to feel for themselves....

At this point in my life, I think every relationship I've ever had, no matter how big or small, from the tiniest crush to both of my marriages...were worth it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> Meanwhile I am more concerned for the ex husband if Faithful Wife still wants to be friends and hang out some nights in his hot tub. I'm scratching my head over that one! But I do not have the whole picture and their lives at this point are likely inseparable, so why not stay friends if both parties agree. But that will not stop me for from seeing a few red flags as did the current boyfriend...
> 
> Badsanta


Are you concerned that my ex-h is still in love with me, and will get hurt because I'll never go back to him but he secretly hopes I will? I am just curious how you envision this (based on not having all the details, as you said).

I do have to tell my ex-h that I am seeing the bf again, so that everything is fully disclosed to everyone. And I also can't do hot tubs with him anymore, which I won't bother to say, I just won't accept any invitations to do so (but my ex-h would likely not even invite me for one once he hears I am seeing the bf again...he "gets it"). I have not seen ex-h in person again since bf and I got back on.

Luckily...the boyfriend has a lovely huge tub for us to soak in...which is preferable to me over a hot tub. :laugh:


----------



## Personal

...


----------



## GuyInColorado

I used to be all about marriage but now I'm feeling sorry for just about every poor bastard that is married and miserable. It seems all expectations go out the window once you say vows and swear to each other until death due us part. I'm also not liking how the government/church regulate marriages. Just seems like a sham. 

Perhaps after the bitter taste of my recent divorce lessons, I'll change my mind. I have been seeing an amazing woman since February, who I could totally spend the rest of my life with as of today. I know she wants marriage, so if I want to keep her, I guess I'll take her to Vegas and do the deed. But if things go south, I'm divorcing quickly this time. No point of staying married just because you don't want another divorce.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

badsanta said:


> If Faithful Wife was enjoying the company of a younger man that had never been married before, and was looking to settle down in life, then yes it would be a risky situation. But these two have been around the block so to speak in understanding long term relationships and the need for companionship. So I think what they have going is great.


 I feel differently.. I just don't feel it's wise to date someone who wants very different things (no matter what those things are.. could be kids, our faith, the marriage ideal, whatever) .. but again.. it's his life.. (surely this is easier on men.. I feel they have a tremendous amount to loose anyway).. but if FW was the one who deeply desired marriage/ committed monogamy.....I would have a much stronger view.. that she was barking up the wrong tree.. 

I don't care what age we are.. many of us KNOW what we want... we simply want what we want...I know I am stubborn like that... Sure people change and adapt too.. but many times there is resentment with it...or a rough ride ahead..


----------



## wild jade

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel differently.. I just don't feel it's wise to date someone who wants very different things (no matter what those things are.. could be kids, our faith, the marriage ideal, whatever) .. but again.. it's his life.. (surely this is easier on men.. I feel they have a tremendous amount to loose anyway).. but if FW was the one who deeply desired marriage/ committed monogamy.....I would have a much stronger view.. that she was barking up the wrong tree..
> 
> I don't care what age we are.. many of us KNOW what we want... we simply want what we want...I know I am stubborn like that... Sure people change and adapt too.. but many times there is resentment with it...or a rough ride ahead..


In general, I agree that we're better off dating people who share our dreams, values, attitudes. But sometimes there is ever so much more to be gained and learned from the differences. 

Yes, there's a risk, and sometimes someone gets hurt. But there's always a risk, and no matter how great things are, someone could get hurt. As they say, better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

wild jade said:


> In general, I agree that we're better off dating people who share our dreams, values, attitudes. But sometimes there is ever so much more to be gained and learned from the differences.
> 
> Yes, there's a risk, and sometimes someone gets hurt. But there's always a risk, and no matter how great things are, someone could get hurt. As they say, better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.


 I think it would be better to learn those differences without sleeping with them. I am the type to get very attached if I go down that road, I will be building a future together... and I'd need him to understand how much these things mean to me. 

There is something I have noticed lately in the behaviors of those who end up broken up.. I was on FB earlier.. a guy friend of sons.. with GF for maybe a year & a half.. I know he had his struggles with her being jealous, not trusting him -he stood in our living room opening his heart up to me about all of it one day this past summer, how he just wants her to understand HOW MUCH he loves her , would never hurt her ...he is very good looking - a young Peter Frampton in the flesh... for a time all his posts were lovey dovey -very open on FB... how she is the best thing that ever happened to him, the light of his life, we're talking just weeks ago..... 


This was obviously "over compensating" ... I noticed this am.. he was single.. I asked son.. here he broke up with HER, has a new GF -she was waiting in the wings at college... just like my son's GF did this.. all this BS how much she loved him and he was her world.. then WHAM.. she was done with him & in the arms of his friend.

Why do people do this.... isn't it better to fight, call each other out , speak what is really wrong.. instead of BS when you're heart is not settled.. I can only imagine how blindsided this girl now feels -due to all those things he said to her. .that she'd never have to worry.. he's her man...he's faithful.. Would have been so much better for him to NOT offer that assurance.. I know some of the history of this girl.. similar to my own when I was younger, her mother messed up, leaving her... she probably has some abandonment issues.. this will be very very difficult for her.. her ability to trust was already shaky.. this will be a horrendous blow... 

I asked my husband last night.. due to the differences in opinion on this thread (as you feel more like FW on this).... if WE didn't work out.. would it have been better to have never met me... he said he would have been better off...because of piece of him would have pined after me.. a hole in his heart -forever.... that's how some of us feel.. 

On the other hand.. I agree..better to have loved & lost than to have never loved at all.. but still.. this is so much easier if you weren't the one dumped, rejected, left for another..... it's hard to not take this very very personal....but yes.. everyone has to move on.. 

Too much of that.. I can see how anyone would lose faith in relationships...


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Are you concerned that my ex-h is still in love with me, and will get hurt because I'll never go back to him but he secretly hopes I will? I am just curious how you envision this (based on not having all the details, as you said).


It is not about him being in love with you and hoping you will secretly rekindle the relationship. In my opinion it is more about the personal space he likely needs to rediscover himself without you and let go so that he too can move forwards with whatever that may be. 

Like you said, with your new boyfriend you are not visiting as much, so this may happen naturally. 

Badsanta


----------



## wild jade

SimplyAmorous said:


> Why do people do this.... isn't it better to fight, call each other out , speak what is really wrong.. instead of BS when you're heart is not settled.. I can only imagine how blindsided this girl now feels -due to all those things he said to her. .that she'd never have to worry.. he's her man...he's faithful.. Would have been so much better for him to NOT offer that assurance.. I know some of the history of this girl.. similar to my own when I was younger, her mother messed up, leaving her... she probably has some abandonment issues.. this will be very very difficult for her.. her ability to trust was already shaky.. this will be a horrendous blow...
> 
> I asked my husband last night.. due to the differences in opinion on this thread (as you feel more like FW on this).... if WE didn't work out.. would it have been better to have never met me... he said he would have been better off...because of piece of him would have pined after me.. a hole in his heart -forever.... that's how some of us feel..
> 
> On the other hand.. I agree..better to have loved & lost than to have never loved at all.. but still.. this is so much easier if you weren't the one dumped, rejected, left for another..... it's hard to not take this very very personal....but yes.. everyone has to move on..
> 
> Too much of that.. I can see how anyone would lose faith in relationships...


Oh, I absolutely agree that people shouldn't lie to each other, or tell them how much in love they are when they have someone else in the wings. That's just dishonest.

But sometimes, you know, you are just at different places in your life, but that doesn't mean you can't celebrate the time that you do have together. 

Yes, being dumped is hard. Being in love with someone who doesn't love you back quite as much is hard. Losing the one you love is hard. It's all hard. But it's life, and we end up having to deal with it whether we like it or not.


----------



## wild jade

badsanta said:


> @Faithful Wife when I met my wife she told me under no circumstances was she looking for a serious relationship and that she just wanted to be friends. If he is anything like me when I met my wife you best watch out! He is slowly and quietly attaching little web of strings all over the place and the next thing you know, you will be trapped in his matrimonial web of love!


This was my hubby too! I made it very, very clear that he shouldn't expect anything from me, that I'm commitment phobic, and really quite incapable of settling down and having a relationship. That he was bound to get hurt.

But he was very, very persistent. Still is. And we're 20 years in.

I would've never thought I could be domesticated like this!


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> It is not about him being in love with you and hoping you will secretly rekindle the relationship. In my opinion it is more about the personal space he likely needs to rediscover himself without you and let go so that he too can move forwards with whatever that may be.
> 
> Like you said, with your new boyfriend you are not visiting as much, so this may happen naturally.
> 
> Badsanta


You may have the wrong impression of how much and how often my ex-h and I hang out together.

At most it has been maybe twice a month that we get together, and then usually just for dinner. That one weekend when I moved and needed help around my new place and saw him on a Friday, Saturday and then a Sunday evening...that was only due to the circumstances and has never happened before (nor can I imagine it happening again). Then there was the one weekend we went to the beach (before I met boyfriend)....that has only happened once and that weekend was the only time I saw him in a 2 month span. He has owned his new house now for 5 months and I've only been inside of it once.

My ex-h is a solid guy. He knows himself well. He was as devastated by our divorce as I was, but he was always much more mature and gentle about the whole thing than I was. He has protected himself as much as he needs to. He is moving on nicely. In his case though, he does not want to date anyone right now, for his own reasons. He is focused on his friends and his new house.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> At this point in my life, I think every relationship I've ever had, no matter how big or small, from the tiniest crush to both of my marriages...were worth it.


If you don't mind me asking... you mentioned that in your searches for a partner that it is important to find someone capable of appreciating/enjoying your healthy libido to the fullest, and if not you quickly move on. Of all your relationships (excluding marriages), who ends up breaking up with who most of the time? You do not have to answer.

For me it seems like all my historical sexual relationships ended about 50/50. Half me getting dumped and the other half me doing the dumping. In my opinion I highly value having had the opportunity to feel what rejection is like from both sides of the fence. Would I be OK with repeating that a bunch of times for more life experiences, I do NOT think so and I can see why @SimplyAmorous gets rather upset at this thread. 

In my opinion, if your boyfriend stated he was looking for a long term commitment while you have also been up front with him about not wanting to get married again but want to enjoy the chemistry of a new relationship, don't let too much time pass without continuing to revisit that topic with him! Odds are he already has his drawer for his cloths in your bedroom, and a spare inhaler in the nightstand. He may feel the relationship growing, but meanwhile perhaps you are still no more invested than you were at the beginning of this relationship. 

Badsanta


----------



## Faithful Wife

@badsanta

Regarding being the dumper or dumpee...I'd have to say it is usually a mutual understanding. There isn't usually a "break up" discussion, but rather, it becomes obvious that we are not a match and we stop contacting each other. If it was an exclusive sexual relationship (meaning this was specifically discussed and agreed to) then of course there is a "break up" discussion, or else an event that makes the fact that we are broken up obvious. I guess it is usually me doing the dumping in that scenario, but sometimes I'm just the one formalizing it while the other party is the one who broke the agreement or started the fight or whatever (so in that case, who dumped who?)

Re: my boyfriend...when we got back together, I re-iterated that I cannot give him a commitment about the future at this time, and he accepted this. Though he clearly just plans to "be himself" and court me and hope for the best, with the underlying desire to make me into his wife or long term partner eventually. I'm fine with that, because I can see that even though this is his plan, there really is no pressure on me and he is accepting my position on the matter. He and I are just enjoying the moments we have together and not placing any expectations about the future (though we are sexually exclusive and not dating anyone else and we do still use the boyfriend/girlfriend descriptions for each other).

No, there's no drawer for each other in each other's bedrooms, but I would not be opposed to this. It just hasn't been necessary. 

We do talk about where we are and how we are feeling, but only end up saying "this is fun, we really enjoy each other, let's keep going". I know how he feels about me and he knows how I feel about him. There is plenty of feelings there on both sides.

Keep in mind, we both live with our aging and dependent mothers, with mostly bad news and worsening conditions ahead of us as they keep declining...and he has 2 kids in high school still. So at this time, there is no chance of us even considering a closer or more committed relationship with each other because our commitments to our dependents are far too time consuming and important to be put behind a romantic relationship.

It will be at least 2 years before we could move toward more commitment but more likely, 5 years (until one or both of our mother's pass away or must be moved into assisted living).

I believe that if he was ready and able to have a fuller commitment himself right now, he would not continue to date me. Since he needs time to work through his family commitments, he is hoping that if we stay together while we both meet our other commitments, we might still be together at the end of that cycle and then I may be ready for a deeper commitment to him.

In the meantime...he knows I am committed to him in the sense that I am not looking at anyone else, I am happy and satisfied with him (he also has high sexual needs and I am meeting them), and I am not saying "no it will never happen" but rather "I can't promise anything but we could end up together if all goes well". So far, this has been enough for him.


----------



## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> Keep in mind, we both live with our aging and dependent mothers, with mostly bad news and worsening conditions ahead of us as they keep declining...and he has 2 kids in high school still. So at this time, there is no chance of us even considering a closer or more committed relationship with each other because our commitments to our dependents are far too time consuming and important to be put behind a romantic relationship.


Ahhh... I actually wanted to ask about this but refrained due to it being a rather personal question involving family. I'm all too familiar with end-of-life care as I grew up with an opportunity to spend plenty of time getting to know two sets of great grandparents. I've now seen generations of my family pass and the respective impact that it takes on family members. 

You think it is best for you and your boyfriend to each have to deal with that independently and alone for each of your mother's end of life care? Holy cow, I'd argue the opposite! You each should hopefully want to give each other some serious support to one another for what is just around the corner. 

It is as if you are living in a hurricane warning zone. You look outside and it is nice and sunny with a few clouds in the distance, so are you enjoying a leisurely hike with a friend. Meanwhile you really should be bolting corrugated steel panels to your windows and finding someone very close to you willing to hunker down and help you weather a serious storm by staying right by your side.


----------



## Faithful Wife

badsanta said:


> Ahhh... I actually wanted to ask about this but refrained due to it being a rather personal question involving family. I'm all too familiar with end-of-life care as I grew up with an opportunity to spend plenty of time getting to know two sets of great grandparents. I've now seen generations of my family pass and the respective impact that it takes on family members.
> 
> You think it is best for you and your boyfriend to each have to deal with that independently and alone for each of your mother's end of life care? Holy cow, I'd argue the opposite! You each should hopefully want to give each other some serious support to one another for what is just around the corner.
> 
> It is as if you are living in a hurricane warning zone. You look outside and it is nice and sunny with a few clouds in the distance, so are you enjoying a leisurely hike with a friend. Meanwhile you really should be bolting corrugated steel panels to your windows and *finding someone very close to you willing to hunker down and help you weather a serious storm by staying right by your side*.


I'm not entirely sure what you mean. We do lean on each other emotionally, every day. 

"How's your mom?" 

"Ugh, not good...she hasn't gotten out of bed all day and wet her pants once yesterday". 

"Aw crap honey, I'm so sorry...did it ruin the mattress?" 

"No I caught it in time, thankfully. How's yours?" 

"Meh, not great either, she is getting mentally fuzzy more and more lately and yesterday she talked about seeing her doctor but referred to a doctor she hasn't seen since I was a baby". 

"Oh dear, that's not a good sign".

"I know, right?"

...and so on.

We both truly appreciate the fact that because we are both in this position, we are really able to support each other emotionally...we both GET IT.

If you mean that we should both be seeking a new spouse in order to weather this storm? I don't get that. I don't need his help to _physically_ help my mother...and my mother would never allow that anyway. When she gets to the point where she will need physical care, she will not allow anyone but me or a medical professional to do this (and she already has a directive about this). As for his mother, I would not dare to physically help there either (other than in the simplest ways) because if she needs more care than he can provide, he needs to get her a nurse or attendant or a live in assistant. 

But emotionally? We lean on each other constantly and our fun relationship is exactly the respite we both need. For instance, next weekend we are going out of town together for 3 days to a beautiful resort where we will eat, drink and have sex until we can't walk anymore (not necessarily in that order). We have others caring for our mothers for that weekend and his kids are with their mother. For a short while, we can pretend to be young and carefree and have no obligations as we huddle together in our hotel room and make a fort out of the sheets.


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## becareful2

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it would be better to learn those differences without sleeping with them. I am the type to get very attached if I go down that road, I will be building a future together... and I'd need him to understand how much these things mean to me.
> 
> There is something I have noticed lately in the behaviors of those who end up broken up.. I was on FB earlier.. a guy friend of sons.. with GF for maybe a year & a half.. I know he had his struggles with her being jealous, not trusting him -he stood in our living room opening his heart up to me about all of it one day this past summer, how he just wants her to understand HOW MUCH he loves her , would never hurt her ...he is very good looking - a young Peter Frampton in the flesh... for a time all his posts were lovey dovey -very open on FB... how she is the best thing that ever happened to him, the light of his life, we're talking just weeks ago.....
> 
> 
> This was obviously "over compensating" ... I noticed this am.. he was single.. I asked son.. here he broke up with HER, has a new GF -she was waiting in the wings at college... just like my son's GF did this.. all this BS how much she loved him and he was her world.. then WHAM.. she was done with him & in the arms of his friend.
> 
> Why do people do this.... isn't it better to fight, call each other out , speak what is really wrong.. instead of BS when you're heart is not settled.. I can only imagine how blindsided this girl now feels -due to all those things he said to her. .that she'd never have to worry.. he's her man...he's faithful.. Would have been so much better for him to NOT offer that assurance.. I know some of the history of this girl.. similar to my own when I was younger, her mother messed up, leaving her... she probably has some abandonment issues.. this will be very very difficult for her.. her ability to trust was already shaky.. this will be a horrendous blow...
> 
> I asked my husband last night.. due to the differences in opinion on this thread (as you feel more like FW on this).... if WE didn't work out.. would it have been better to have never met me... he said he would have been better off...because of piece of him would have pined after me.. a hole in his heart -forever.... that's how some of us feel..
> 
> On the other hand.. I agree..better to have loved & lost than to have never loved at all.. but still.. this is so much easier if you weren't the one dumped, rejected, left for another..... it's hard to not take this very very personal....but yes.. everyone has to move on..
> 
> Too much of that.. I can see how anyone would lose faith in relationships...


That poor girl. Maybe my views will change in the future but for now, I agree with your husband; that I would prefer that I had never met her at all. For the most part, I don't think people should marry young, because unless two people are fiercely loyal to one another and are willing to stay together through the rough patches, one or both of them will change. Many are being led by their emotions and their feelings nowadays, and that's especially threatening in a marriage or long term relationship. Imagine getting the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech can be absolutely soul crushing. To many, love is a feeling, and feelings come and go like the rolling tide. I would be terrified of being in a relationship with someone who doesn't know who they are and what kind of person they want to be. That would seem like a waste of time and a potential heartbreak.


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> *We both truly appreciate the fact that because we are both in this position, we are really able to support each other emotionally...we both GET IT.*


Interesting!

OK, I'm seeing the action play out a little more now... I never saw him shooting more gooey web off to the sides to completely surround you! This guy is a genius!


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## Faithful Wife

You are such a huge perv, @badsanta


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## NotEasy

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not entirely sure what you mean. We do lean on each other emotionally, every day. ...


I think what he meant is something I was considering posting: Why don't the two of you move in together, with both mothers and share the load? 

And the rest of your reply showed that wouldn't work. Your mother doesn't want anyone else helping and his mother has need of professional help.
Plus moving elderly people to new accommodation is often stressful to them.

I hope your mother at least knows he is your friend who is available and willing to help. If she changes her opinion he might help you on occasion or in an emergency. But if she has a directive it seems like a very firm opinion and unlikely to change.

It is great that you have someone to lean on emotionally. 

Keep building forts out of sheets. That is a fun game I haven't played in far too long.


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## Personal

...


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## NotEasy

I was assuming suitable sleeping arrangements, with a separate bedroom or bedrooms for their mothers. Personally for me it would be torture to be stuck at home all day with no company, some are happy with a life of day-time TV, for me that would be torture.

But my suggestion fails as her mother doesn't want any other helper.


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## Faithful Wife

@NotEasy ... At this time it is way too soon to consider living together at all ... I'm just divorced 9 months and cannot put myself out there that far into a commitment at this time. So even if it would be beneficial to both of us in some ways, it is simply too soon for that.

If in a few years I feel I can make a deeper commitment to him and his kids are out in college and we still have our moms...then it will be a consideration.

We both work full time right now outside our homes. My mom is fine at home during the day while I'm gone. His mom, he takes to an adult care center while he is working (like grandma day care). For now this works and our moms have not declined so much that we need to change our living arrangements just yet (even without considering moving in together)....but his mom is going to need more care soon. Within a year or so. We'll see what happens.


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## badsanta

Faithful Wife said:


> @NotEasy We both work full time right now outside our homes. My mom is fine at home during the day while I'm gone. His mom, he takes to an adult care center while he is working (like grandma day care). For now this works and our moms have not declined so much that we need to change our living arrangements just yet (even without considering moving in together)....but his mom is going to need more care soon. Within a year or so. We'll see what happens.


You should try getting your moms together for a play date. At first they will be grumpy, set in their ways, and god awfully awkward about this idea. Just give them a deck of playing cards, sum rum with diet cranberry juice, and put this in the DVD player:










Then tell them if they behave, you will take them to the fabric store:










Next thing you know the two of them will be just like "step sisters" and behave the exact same way as Will Ferrell and John Reilly did in this movie!


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## badsanta

...


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## badsanta

Muscle Fix Tape!










@Faithful Wife

Not to be confused with electrostatic sexual bondage tape that does not have any glue. This stuff on the other hand is ultra sticky and designed to help athletes heal by preventing them from overextending or exerting a muscle that has been stressed. 

I noticed this item was definitely NOT like the others for customers buying adult novelties. So hmmm, what are kinky people out there using this stuff for? 

Well, let me see... Athletes use this stuff to keep right on going after they perhaps pushed or stretched themselves a little too far...










OK so Olympians use this stuff big time and approximately 10,000 rolls were made available during the Beijing Olympics. 

Here a local news outlet discussing these tapes 




...but I'm still scratching my head a little as to how/why this tape would be used to enhance sex. My best guess is that some folks out there are using it to help stimulate/expose some of the more sensitive are harder to reach areas of one's body to various forms of play such as dripping wax. 

ENJOY!

>

Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife

Ha ha! You are a riot, @badsanta

Thanks for the tip. I can't think of any good uses for tape this sticky, either, to be honest! Other than taping someone's mouth shut.


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## EllaSuaveterre

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks Life. That was my 2nd marriage, however. So I already took that gamble you are speaking of, and it ended in D. I can't do that a 3rd time. The stats on 3rd marriages ending in divorce are so ridiculously high, I can't believe anyone does it.
> 
> However...I still believe in marriage and respect everyone who is married...it is not the institution of marriage that caused me to be divorced twice. It is/was my own choices.
> 
> Having learned this finally, clearly no one should ever marry me!
> 
> The fact that anyone would even want to is sort of perplexing to me. I really just have no need to merge like that. But it is a sweet romantic notion for many people. Including my boyfriend.
> 
> Nice to hear from you, Life.


My father's marriage to my mother was his FOURTH (or his third;I can't quite recall)... and his final. My mother's marriage to my father was her second. My dad was my mom's affair partner before she left her first husband to marry him. Statistically speaking, it was extremely unlikely they'd make it, but here they are. They've been married for close to 35 years now and it's truly a shining example of a loving, compassionate marriage. Would I recommend everyone go out and cheat on their spouse with someone who'd been married and divorced three times? Of course not; that would be ridiculous. But, defying statistics isn't utterly impossible. Just mostly impossible.


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## jld

EllaSuaveterre said:


> My father's marriage to my mother was his FOURTH (or his third;I can't quite recall)... and his final. My mother's marriage to my father was her second. My dad was my mom's affair partner before she left her first husband to marry him. Statistically speaking, it was extremely unlikely they'd make it, but here they are. They've been married for close to 35 years now and it's truly a shining example of a loving, compassionate marriage. Would I recommend everyone go out and cheat on their spouse with someone who'd been married and divorced three times? Of course not; that would be ridiculous. But, defying statistics isn't utterly impossible. Just mostly impossible.


Cheating is a bogeyman on TAM, Ella. Only bad boys and girls do it, and they all go to hell, forever, you know.


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## Faithful Wife

EllaSuaveterre said:


> My father's marriage to my mother was his FOURTH (or his third;I can't quite recall)... and his final. My mother's marriage to my father was her second. My dad was my mom's affair partner before she left her first husband to marry him. Statistically speaking, it was extremely unlikely they'd make it, but here they are. They've been married for close to 35 years now and it's truly a shining example of a loving, compassionate marriage. Would I recommend everyone go out and cheat on their spouse with someone who'd been married and divorced three times? Of course not; that would be ridiculous. But, defying statistics isn't utterly impossible. Just mostly impossible.


Ella, thank you for sharing this. 

It's funny, but I still believe in marriage and I think everyone should do as they please. Third, fourth, fifth marriages...though statistics may show they most likely won't last, this doesn't mean they can't last or be very happy marriages! I love weddings. I always cry when I see how the bride and groom look at each other with such innocent hope and love in their eyes. That moment is so precious.

For myself though...I'm just all married out. I told my boyfriend the other day that I was so sorry that I used up all my marriages before we met. Because if it weren't for that I am sure I would be thinking of the possibility of marriage with him. I know he would like to be married again someday. (Rookie! Only one previous marriage! ) He said he understands and I know he does.

I am simply unwilling to do the one and only thing I could do that would make my chances of being divorced a third time even possible. So it is less that I don't want to be married and more that I refuse to ever go through a divorce again.

In fact, I do wish to be a wife. That role was a wonderful one to me and I adored my husband being my husband. I love my new boyfriend and when we "play house" and do wifey and husbandy things together, it feels so good. That particular role play in a relationship is the best, most fun and most sexy to me. (Though boyfriend and girlfriend roles are great too!)

I would be willing to have a commitment ceremony, wear rings, and call each other husband and wife with the right person, and be married in all but legal documents and finances. But I can be just as committed without this, too.

I still believe in love and marriage


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## jld

Faithful Wife said:


> Ella, thank you for sharing this.
> 
> It's funny, but I still believe in marriage and I think everyone should do as they please. Third, fourth, fifth marriages...though statistics may show they most likely won't last, this doesn't mean they can't last or be very happy marriages! I love weddings. I always cry when I see how the bride and groom look at each other with such innocent hope and love in their eyes. That moment is so precious.
> 
> For myself though...I'm just all married out. I told my boyfriend the other day that I was so sorry that I used up all my marriages before we met. Because if it weren't for that I am sure I would be thinking of the possibility of marriage with him. I know he would like to be married again someday. (Rookie! Only one previous marriage! ) He said he understands and I know he does.
> 
> I am simply unwilling to do the one and only thing I could do that would make my chances of being divorced a third time even possible. So it is less that I don't want to be married and more that I refuse to ever go through a divorce again.
> 
> In fact, I do wish to be a wife. That role was a wonderful one to me and I adored my husband being my husband. I love my new boyfriend and when we "play house" and do wifey and husbandy things together, it feels so good. That particular role play in a relationship is the best, most fun and most sexy to me. (Though boyfriend and girlfriend roles are great too!)
> 
> I would be willing to have a commitment ceremony, wear rings, and call each other husband and wife with the right person, and be married in all but legal documents and finances. But I can be just as committed without this, too.
> 
> *I still believe in love and marriage *


Ha! You romantic you!


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