# I need some advice... think i'm at the end of my rope :(



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Ok, I'm not sure where to start... 

My wife and I have been together for 6 years this saturday, and we dated for about a year before that, so all total, 7 years...

we married young, which i think is causing a lot of our issues, i was 22 and she was 18. She is an only child, (also a foreigner now with citizenship - we met at college out here) and I am the youngest of 5 in my family. these details are important i think, because of how each of us have differing views on our problems. 

the skinny of the problem is that I put A LOT of effort into making her happy, making sure she gets what she wants, and that she feels safe and comfortable. It's just the way I am. I loved her, and as such, her happiness became my happiness. I would do anything for her to make sure she was happy, i think that's what love is. 

however, over the years, i have run dry and resentful that she doesn't put me first as well. i put her ahead of my interests and needs, and so should she. but she doesn't. so a lot of the time, she gets what she wants, and i'm left wanting. there is an extreme unbalance, and it's continued to fester. 

i don't have a problem with sharing my feelings, like most guys, but she does. I have brought this issue up with some frequency within the last couple of years. She never understands why i feel the way i do, and it always turns into an argument. She almost always finds a way to turn the argument around on me, to where instead of trying to understand why i hurt, she is attacking me telling me why i hurt her. I always catch her in this, which causes yet another argument. 

It always comes down to her statement "i just don't think about it like that"...

so, let's see.. what do i expect? 

well, i expect that if someone receives, then they should give back. equally. it's not always going to be 50/50 split, but it should be darn close in my eyes. 

i don't fault her 100%, i think some of this has to do with how she was raised. as an only child, i'm not sure she ever learned to share. she always got what she wanted from her parents, and they probably didn't expect much in return - that's just not how a parent/child relationship is. there are, i'm sure some cultural differences at play here, but i don't think they are as significant as her age and the way she was raised. 

so, i've talked to her multiple times about this issue. she says she wants to work on it, says she'll try harder to make me her #1, but the next day it's always back to square one. 

she doesn't initiate intimacy. she won't surprise me with stuff. she just doesn't think "what would my husband want... what would make him happy if i did something today." what she DOES say, is that she shows me love by "letting" me do things... to me, that's worthless. I want her to be proactive in showing love... is that too much to ask? 

it got to the point the other day where i decided that i was going to leave. i was just going to drop her and move on, but my sister suggested letting her know how i feel (again...) so I can give her one more chance to address my needs. 

i did, and told her that i had made up my mind, but thought better of it, and that i would give her a final opportunity to address it. she cried, i cried, we talked. we addressed some issues, and agreed to go to MC. Some of her frustration was not know what I "needed" so i told her and she wrote those things down, so she could make them a priority. 

two weeks later, nothing has been done. i stepped up my game, and did more to make myself more desirable in her eyes. i took her on our first real date in a while, a total surprise for her. she promised to get on the MC thing, getting a list of "in network" counselors that we could go to (my insurance won't cover, but hers will)... She promised to do it the next day. It didn't happen, said she got busy, said sorry and promised that was going to happen the next day. this happened repeatedly for the last two weeks. 

she now has a list of things that i "need", none of which she has done, and i'd be surprised if she has even looked at it. she has never once explored how to be a better relationship person, never done any asking on how she can do better without me first bringing things up. 

i get angry, because she is really dedicated and works really hard for things that she cares about.... just doesn't work nearly as hard for our marriage. 

she is super independent, and i feel like she is just using me, taking me for granted. it's enough to get me to want to leave. i think she's comfortable, and doesn't have any reason to change. 

don't give me the "you can't change someone" part... because i'm not trying to change her. i'm trying to get her to be a part of this so called relationship. i can't do anything, and she has to want to... which is why this is so frsutrating. because outside of the words she say's "i love you" "i want things to get better" ... i don't see the actions. 

i don't understand, when you see the facts... whether you feel the same way or not, that if your significant other tells you they need something different than they are getting, why you wouldn't care enough to just do it. you don't have to understand, it's nice if you do... but it's not necessary. all you have to understand is that it's needed to make your SO happier. 

i think i'm on a full on ramble/rant now.. so i'm going to cut it short. 

i think we have grown apart as we've grown up. she's selfish and cares about her own self interests. i'm caring, and need something back, or i'm going to pull my care for her, and reallocate those efforts to myself - which would effectively end our relationship. 

i'm deathly scared of being alone... since being married, I haven't really ventured out to find or cultivate friends. i view the marriage committment as being with the person you want to spend all your time with, and that to spend time with anyone else wouldn't be as good or fun. 

so if i left, i would be alone. completely. and that scares the bejeebus out of me. i know i would be fine, but it's the fear of the unknown that's keeping me from doing anything. 

i need some help. thanks for anything you can provide, even if it's a "i know how you feel" post... i just feel like i need someone in my corner right now... 

ps. a quick note -- i don't believe that "manning" up will save anything... that would be changing who i am. in reference to this manning up as it applies on this forum, i see that nothing short of a manipulative game to play... i'm not in a marriage to play games. so if you suggest some iteration of this reference, please be preparred to show me why you think that's appropriate in this situation.


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## urnotme (Jun 1, 2012)

I can't offer any advice as I have a world of my own problems. I wish my husband was as interested in working on things as you are with your wife.
I think she is spoiled.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I think you need to man up.

I also think you got the concept of manning up all wrong. It has absolutely nothing to do with manipulation. It has everything to do with making YOU a better person.

In behavioral dynamics, affecting a change in yourself for the better has ripple affects in interactions with others. It's just how social interactions work. Your in no means manipulating people in the way that you think you would be. 

You see...from your post you put your wife on a pedestal. You give her things and make her your entire world. Also, when you do this, you indicate that you expect something in return. And if you dont, you start to harbour resentment. This is classic nice guy behavior. Nice guy behavior is a turn off to women. It's part of the grander scale of social dynamics in female behavior. You need to stop this.

Read a book called "no more mr. Nice guy". See if some of your behaviors are illustrated in that book. The more knowledge you have, the more prepared to fix your marriage you will be.
Also go to marriedmansexlife.com. Lots of good info there.

You see, manning up isn't about becoming a d!ck to women. It's about bettering yourself to become more desirable to women. In this case, your wife. And wouldn't you want to at least go and read those books and view that site if it gave you knowledge in ways to make your wife want to jump your bones and fulfill your needs in a marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ like i said, manning up has nothing to do with her actions. so, i'll become more awesome and more "manly" and she'll continue to be just the way she is. 

if i saw a correlation then i would do it. there is nothing about what i'm doing now that should make me less desirable. less wanting to jump my bones, if you will. 

i am who i am, and i need someone that would appreciate that. 

if my intent on manning up, was for her to change her behavior to match, then that in effect, is manipulating her. it's a game. 

and i can't see a lot of "manning" up saving marriages... mine for one, she would get pissed and withdraw even more. 9/10, it's probably not a solution.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

plus i think there is a big difference between a loss of respect/attractiveness and complete selfishness.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

I would humbly suggest that you and your wife attend a marriage education course together. Both of you seem to be holding some strong personal beliefs that will need some reevaluation for any kind of relationship to have long term success. Please don't take this the wrong way, a lot of people find themselves in this situation.

With regards to "manning up" it is my humble belief that the man is supposed to be the relationship leader. Reading your post, I get a picture of the stronger partner demanding from the weaker partner, judging the results, finding lack and assigning blame. Not a good program for leadership.


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ^ and i can't see a lot of "manning" up saving marriages... mine for one, she would get pissed and withdraw even more. 9/10, it's probably not a solution.


I was in the same boat and thought the same thing. Thought there is no way in hell this will help and it will actually make things worse. 

I WAS DEAD WRONG!!!!!!!!

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy".


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ so let me get this straight ... me becoming independent and indifferent towards her will somehow magically change who she is and her selfish behaviors? 

yes, i can see how that would affect my outlook, but its HER behaviors that i feel are unfair. i would still see her behaviors the same way, even after manning up. 

i just don't seem to get how this would do anything but make me feel better... but it wouldn't really address the issue. a bandaid, if you will, to a deeper, much farther down rooted issue


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ^ like i said, manning up has nothing to do with her actions. so, i'll become more awesome and more "manly" and she'll continue to be just the way she is.
> 
> if i saw a correlation then i would do it. there is nothing about what i'm doing now that should make me less desirable. less wanting to jump my bones, if you will.


I hate to tell you but I think your dead wrong. From what you posted, you are exactly being a nice guy, just like I was. (because we love them...) Yeah, doesnt work. She will loss respect for you, leave you and find another. 

I am telling you, as I am sure others here will as well, THATS the problem. 

Read the damn book and do it! I promise you will see things get better! (after the intial pushback of course)


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

oh, and i'm not a complete nice guy either... it's like many of you on this forum see things black and white... there is lots of gray.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

IMO manning up is, at least in part, a journey to discover yourself, respect yourself, and expect more from yourself.

You eventually get to a point where you admit to yourself that you can expect more out of a relationship than being taken for granted.

You also become confident in yourself... confident enough to say things to other people like, "This marriage as is does not work for me. Here is why...".

And, ultimately, manning up will give you the confidence to see that a fear of being alone is a lousy reason to stay in a relationship that is not what you want.

And notice, your wife has not fit into this at all yet. There is no manipulation here.


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

My wife has done a 180

She wanted a man not me running around "in love" with her, like they tell us they want. 
Look up book. You can get it free in PDF online. IT WORKS because its the way its suppose to be!! Not the way we have been told by women for years. Get that crap out of your head.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> oh, and i'm not a complete nice guy either... it's like many of you on this forum see things black and white... there is lots of gray.


Change is hard. My advice is anything you do even if its hard or rough make sure she knows you love her. Go the extra mile when changing its tough and hard...just make sure that its done out of love than anger or any other negative emotion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> oh, and i'm not a complete nice guy either... it's like many of you on this forum see things black and white... there is lots of gray.


I agree and believe me, my wife has lots of other issues as well that screw things up but me"loving" her so much, only made it worse. 


They lose respect. Lose interest and move on to another. 

If you wont stand up to her, then she knows you wont stand up for her! It not even soemthing she realizes she is doing.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> don't give me the "you can't change someone" part... because i'm not trying to change her. i'm trying to get her to be a part of this so called relationship. i can't do anything, and she has to want to... which is why this is so frsutrating. because outside of the words she say's "i love you" "i want things to get better" ... i don't see the actions.


You are trying to change things and that involves changes from her. You want more intimacy and more involvement from her in the relationship. You want her to show her love for you in ways you can see. And maybe more than anything else, if you threaten to leave, you want it taken seriously. 

Be honest about it. Those are very reasonable requests.

Once you know what you need from her, you can try to figure out what changes you can make to yourself to get the responses you are looking for.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ i've been very open about it. and still no change. this is why i'm at the point that i am... is it really that important to her? does she want to do something for me. 

i'm not a tit for tat kind of guy, so i do a lot of giving without expecting anything back... i do, however, expect some sort of reciprocity which never comes in any form unless it's asked for. 

again, i don't see manning up as the solution. i honestly don't think there is a solution...


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> i'm not a tit for tat kind of guy, so i do a lot of giving without expecting anything back... i do, however, expect some sort of reciprocity which never comes in any form unless it's asked for.


Matty: I give you this backrub and expect nothing in return!
Wife: Thanks. You're sweet.
Matty: Wait, I expect some sort of reciprocity.
Wife: WTF?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

lol...no, not like that at all.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

it's more like i do x, y, z, day after day, and sometime within the next week i want her to communicate to me, one way or another, something that says "i value you and appreciate all you do". if i don't get that, why keep giving. eff that.

hell, if i even remotely thought that she actually cared two sh*ts for me, i wouldn't even be here. if she does, she doesn't communicate it. that's what bothers me.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> it's more like i do x, y, z, day after day, and sometime within the next week i want her to communicate to me, one way or another, something that says "i value you and appreciate all you do". if i don't get that, why keep giving. eff that.
> 
> hell, if i even remotely thought that she actually cared two sh*ts for me, i wouldn't even be here. if she does, she doesn't communicate it. that's what bothers me.


But see, you do want something in return. Which is, also perfectly normal. So let's be honest about it. 

And I think you are on to something.

You can't make her appreciate you, but you can stop doing x,y,z day after day.

And if you take that one step further, you can't make her care, but it is your choice whether you want to be in the marriage.

You want her to communicate, or your needs aren't getting met in the marriage and you'll have to leave.

There is no manipulation there, and also it has nothing to do with you giving x,y,z day after day.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Acorn said:


> But see, you do want something in return. Which is, also perfectly normal. So let's be honest about it.
> 
> And I think you are on to something.
> 
> ...


okay, well I don't see that as manning up as it's typically defined here. the challenge is I don't want to stop doing x,y,z... it's who i am. so i'd rather just cut to the chase and say, either you communicate your love to me, or our relationship ends all together. it's like taking or chipping pieces of your love away from the other person until they realize they don't have what they once thought they had. getting a new car at the price piont you need sometimes requires chipping away features and add ons ... 

honestly, i don't want to do that. for me, it's all or nothing. is that wrong?


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Yes. All or nothing is not a marriage.

You keep fighting the obvious advice you are getting.

It is for your good and what is good for the goose......


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

This is me said:


> Yes. All or nothing is not a marriage.
> 
> You keep fighting the obvious advice you are getting.
> 
> It is for your good and what is good for the goose......


not fighting, but challenging... there is a difference.

and i think your taking the all or nothing out of context... it's not like i'm not willing to make compromises on stuff, which would accurately be what a marriage is not. 

however, what I'm saying is I don't understand why "chipping" pieces of you away is necessary. i mean i get it, and understand the implications, but what does that say about the person that you are doing that for? you should never have to do that. 

is there a relationship out there that exists in harmony where this isn't necessary?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> so i'd rather just cut to the chase and say, either you communicate your love to me, or our relationship ends all together.


Well why are you here talking to us then? DO IT.

Chances are, the reason you are here is because deep down you know you won't do it and actually leave when she fails.

Chances are, you don't really want to leave.

And that's why you are stuck.

There are a lot of us that were like that. I'm one of them.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I agree with you. There's not much you can do except leave. You married a child and now she's starting to have a mind of her own. Her "adult self" may not really want to be married to you. However, there's one thing you don't seem to understand. Some women get bored with a man who fawns all over them. You can still be a gentleman and not act desperate. Women hate desperation and men who lack confidence. If you are a push over in any aspect of your life she will lose respect for you even if she doesn't express it in words. They rarely do it. You said you were terrified to live alone and that's one form of desperation. She knows it and doesn't think you're serious. Your marriage has little chance to surivive (25% or less according to national stats). You might as well start acting like a guy that the next women will want. Trust me, that guy is not a nice guy.


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> However, there's one thing you don't seem to understand. Some women get bored with a man who fawns all over them. You can still be a gentleman and not act desperate. Women hate desperation and men who lack confidence. If you are a push over in any aspect of your life she will lose respect for you even if she doesn't express it in words. They rarely do it. You said you were terrified to live alone and that's one form of desperation. She knows it and doesn't think you're serious. Your marriage has little chance to surivive.



You nailed it. 

He doesnt see it and I didnt either once.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

ok, let me add a couple of other "doosies" in...

her goals and my goals - about the future don't line up. at all. not one bit. and it seems like there isn't going to be much compromise either. would "manning" up change that?


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't think "manning up" will help the OP either. He's so resistant to the overall concept that the execution would be flawed.

The other reason is because his wife is just not the type of person he wants to be married to and thats OK. It is different when you have this wonderful wife in the beginning and then things end up this way. Manning up is definately helpful there. But if I'm not missing anything it sounds like she never was like that.

The OP expresses continually how he won't change who he is but he is knocking his head against the wall trying to change the person she is.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Paulination said:


> The OP expresses continually how he won't change who he is but he is knocking his head against the wall trying to change the person she is.


oh contrare.... I'll do whatever it takes. but i'm starting to question why. we had a great beginning. I oftentimes wonder what the trigger was that started causing these issues. but now, your right, i'm not sure if she is the person i want to be with. i say i love her, and then i question what it is about her that makes me say "i love her". i truthfully don't know.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

it's all my perception isn't it... you guys are making me think that my way of things is all sorts of effed up...


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

i certainly don't know it all, thats for sure. but like i said, i'll challenge the manning up thing, because i don't get it. i understand why it works, and how to implement it. i guess i have to decide if the future relationship that would be caused by this process would be / is worth it to me ... because that's what it is... a relationship changer.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> i certainly don't know it all, thats for sure. but like i said, i'll challenge the manning up thing, because i don't get it. i understand why it works, and how to implement it. i guess i have to decide if the future relationship that would be caused by this process would be / is worth it to me ... because that's what it is... a relationship changer.



Your relationship has already changed, but she didn't notify you. She may not be able to put it into words but she's feeling it.

Was your father around when you grew up?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Matty, I think to us you sound like a football team that likes to run up the middle on 1st down, run off tackle on 2nd down, and run a short post pattern on 3rd. And you wonder why, after a while, it doesn't work as well.

It's not like your plan is a bad plan, you just need to understand that after a while the defense adapts and so must you adapt with your relationship.

Unless you find an gal that can't ever cover the run on first and second down, nor the pass on 3rd down. That's the other option.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> ^ so let me get this straight ... me becoming independent and indifferent towards her will somehow magically change who she is and her selfish behaviors?


Uh yeah, I think that's more or less what people here are saying. It's not exactly magic but it is counter-intuitive.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> i'd rather just cut to the chase and say, either you communicate your love to me, or our relationship ends all together.
> 
> for me, it's all or nothing. is that wrong?


Unfortunately it is. All or nothing thinking is not likely to work


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Was your father around when you grew up?


why is this important? yes, mom and dad still together. he worked a lot, and my mom was stay at home. he wasn't a bad dad by any means however.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> why is this important? yes, mom and dad still together. he worked a lot, and my mom was stay at home. he wasn't a bad dad by any means however.


Let's continue with 20 questions...

Are you, by chance, an engineer?

Do women hit on you often?


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## lotsoflove (Jun 11, 2012)

I am in your position as well, except I am Mrs. Nice Girl apparently. I am actually trying to be more independent now, I think my husband feels this pressure, like I put all of my happiness in him. That's a lot of responsibility. Hopefully, as I gain independence he will be more drawn to that. I have tried withdrawing before though or just not doing all the things I normally do and he just seemed to withdraw more. Maybe it just doesn't work the same for males and females, this whole "manning up" thing. I hope we both figure it out!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

So...you don't want to take our advise and don't want to change because that won't work.

Well....how is the current you working out in the relationship corner right now?

Look. People need to change and adapt. That's what we do. At work, when you come across a problem, do you change your tactics to suit the situation or do you just keeping hitting the problem with the same hammer hoping it just may work eventually?

Go read those books. What? Two evenings out of your life for some knowledge. A small price to pay for some education. Or, toss them after you read them. That's fine. Just go read them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> it's more like i do x, y, z, day after day, and sometime within the next week i want her to communicate to me, one way or another, something that says "i value you and appreciate all you do". if i don't get that, why keep giving. eff that.
> 
> hell, if i even remotely thought that she actually cared two sh*ts for me, i wouldn't even be here. if she does, she doesn't communicate it. that's what bothers me.


There are two good books (well 3) that many on the forum recommend to deal with precisely the issue you describe above.

These are:
His Needs / Her Needs by Dr. Harley (free website questionnaire)
Love Busters (ditto)
5 Love Languages (free website quiz)


Based on 5 Love Languages, it sounds like you feel love when she expresses words of affirmation. That's what you described above.

However, she probably doesn't need words of affirmation from you. Not that she never needs them, but they aren't as important.

If you don't get them, you feel unloved.

She on the other hand, values some other ways of expressing love more--maybe acts of service, or gifts, or physical touch, or affection. Or a mix of a couple of these.

His Needs / Her Needs is similar, but much more in depth. Think of the 5 Love Languages is a quick jump start to tie you over while you get into His Needs / Her Needs for a broader approach (10 core needs that you rank).

Love Busters is also important, that book covers how despite giving love with one hand you may be taking it away with annoying or frustrating actions.

All of this is a two-way street, win/win, none of this is intended for you to do all the hard work and she does none. Or vice versa.

I am far from alone in really liking these books, they are very practical.

I will say, though, you should consider No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life (I believe others have recommended them). I'm a woman by the way, but many men have seen turnarounds in their marriages from these books.

I know it's a lot of books, but you're looking for advice, and these books have really proven themselves to many people here.


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## marriedglad (Dec 5, 2011)

Your problem is you're turning into a nagging wife. Yeah, it seems like in your marriage the roles have been reversed. However, your solution lies in giving her the space to breath, and moving away from her for a while.

The more you do something for her and express it, the more she'll feel that you did it expecting something in return. The best thing you can do is take a break. Go away for a month. Go on a vacation, catch up with old friends, read some nice books, go on some adventure. Just distance yourself from your darling for a month, and when you return, act like you don't give a rat's ass about this marriage. 

If you keep persisting in saving your marriage and begging her to be with you and please you then, trust me, she won't. She has already taken you for granted, and knows it firmly in her heart that the marriage will always survive somehow, because you can't let go of her. Let her know that you've discovered life beyond her, and are open to living it. Perhaps, you will really find a new passion on your vacation. That'll knock some sense into her head, and she might start taking the initiative to save the marriage as you've stopped working on it. 

Many people are scared of this kind of behavior for saving their wedlock because they feel that their "hell may care" attitude might actually give their spouse the opportunity to finally break away from this marriage. Those junkies don't trust their life partners; I don't expect that from you. If you love her so much, you gotta trust her. Let her do things on her own in this marriage without you hovering over her head ordering each action. Give her the chance to take the responsibility of the marriage all by herself. 

_"If you love someone, let them go. If they come back; they are yours, and if they don't; they never were."_

Let loose bro.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Ok guys... (and gals)... thanks for the thgouths. i read through a good bit of nmmng last night (about 2/3rds) and i saw it very insightful to say the least. got my mind racing on a few things, and a lot of the behaviors i carry through my marriage I also do at work, so there is definitely some opportunity for improvement. I never said there wasn't either, but I just didn't see how my changing would fix her. 

in the end, honestly, i don't think it will. in fact, if i really asked myself what i really wanted, without and "judgemental" issues from others, i would say that i really don't love her. i honestly have no idea why i put soo much effort into this relationship at all. i think reading the book was insightful in a lot of ways, but instead of making me want to try really hard to save the marriage, i think in some way it helped me realize it's over. is that possible, or is my mind playing tricks on me?

some of the things that she did caused a trigger as well, so in full disclosure, here is ome additional information. 

this weekend is our 6 year anniversary. despite all the crap going on, i thought it would be rude to recognize it and not do anything. so i planned a trip to sedona for the weekend, so we could get away, do some biking and hiking, horseback riding, etc....

i haven't told her what's the plan yet, but yesterday she tells me that she wants to do this a different weekend because she has some homework to complete this weekend. she's taking a spanish class as an elective in her masters program, and she's intently trying to get better, which i can honor. however, is that more important than recognizing another year and doing something to celebrate? 

so we aren't going, and i don't want to do anything for this now. nothing. no flowers, no card, no i love you, no dinner, no nothing. this isn't resentful feelings, trying to inflict some pain, but i simply just don't care. 

i think i'm going to head up north this weekend to spend some time with family and get away... i need my head cleared and being around her isn't helping. 

can someone help me understand what i'm feeling. i'm a little confused at how concrete my mind is made up on leaving her. 

regardless of that decision, i have some things to do for myself and to improve. but i deserve better. don't i?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

anyone?


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ok, let me add a couple of other "doosies" in...
> 
> her goals and my goals - about the future don't line up. at all. not one bit. and it seems like there isn't going to be much compromise either. would "manning" up change that?


Yeah because manning up has nothing to do with her actually. She will either get on board or you will see yourve been wasting your time all along.

You focus on being a better you and your future. If she wants to be part of it, fine. If she doesnt, thats just as fine. That cut and dry actually. 


We tend to think that because we "love" them sooo much and we give sooo much, that they should too. Problem is, the more we try the less attracted to us they are and less respect for us they have and they will lose interest, period. 


You focus on being true to you and your future, and stop worrying about her or even if he matches up with your plans. 
If it does, great, if it doesnt, well thats great too! No more wasting time or being upset or bitter. 


Like my dad would say; "Son, no matter how beautiful a woman is, there is someone, somewhere thats sick of her ass!"


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i certainly don't know it all, thats for sure. but like i said, i'll challenge the manning up thing, because i don't get it. i understand why it works, and how to implement it. i* guess i have to decide if the future relationship that would be caused by this process would be / is worth it to me ... because that's what it is... a relationship changer*.


Its sad but true. 

Problem is, it will always be true regardless the woman. 

Being sweet may get her, but being real will keep them.

I always wanted my wife and I to have that "all in" lovey dovey relationship with no games. Problem is, most women wont stick around for that even though they say they want it. 

The DNA in women demand us to be men that lead and are not emotional, but rather rocks that stand no matter what they do or say. They are attracted long term to that and its hard wired into them with no conscience thought. 


Sucks but true..


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

marriedglad said:


> The more you do something for her and express it, the more she'll feel that you did it expecting something in return. The best thing you can do is take a break. Go away for a month. Go on a vacation, catch up with old friends, read some nice books, go on some adventure. Just distance yourself from your darling for a month, and when you return, act like you don't give a rat's ass about this marriage.
> 
> If you keep persisting in saving your marriage and begging her to be with you and please you then, trust me, she won't. She has already taken you for granted, and knows it firmly in her heart that the marriage will always survive somehow, because you can't let go of her. Let her know that you've discovered life beyond her, and are open to living it. Perhaps, you will really find a new passion on your vacation. That'll knock some sense into her head, and she might start taking the initiative to save the marriage as you've stopped working on it.
> .



Bingo! I was afraid to as well at one time, but as soon as I did, (after exhausting all other efforts) everything turned on a dime and I am pretty dang impressed with how well its working so far!! I AM SOLD!!! IT WORKS!!


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## Santa (May 31, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> Ok guys... (and gals)... thanks for the thgouths. i read through a good bit of nmmng last night (about 2/3rds) and i saw it very insightful to say the least. got my mind racing on a few things, and a lot of the behaviors i carry through my marriage I also do at work, so there is definitely some opportunity for improvement. I never said there wasn't either, but I just didn't see how my changing would fix her.
> 
> in the end, honestly, i don't think it will. in fact, if i really asked myself what i really wanted, without and "judgemental" issues from others, i would say that i really don't love her. i honestly have no idea why i put soo much effort into this relationship at all. i think reading the book was insightful in a lot of ways, but instead of making me want to try really hard to save the marriage, i think in some way it helped me realize it's over. is that possible, or is my mind playing tricks on me?
> 
> ...




Sorry buddy, just now getting to this post. 


I think you are on the right track. Maybe the effort you have been putting into it is more about not wanting to fail and not about her really. 


Either way, you need to get back to YOU to find out and I think you are doing the right thing and thinking the right way now. 

Make up your mind that YOUR life is going to be better with or without her! Do your thing and be true to yourself with no apoloigies for it!! 

:smthumbup:


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

well, i am awesome. someone would be stupid to let me go... just sayin' :O


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think if she actually has an itemized list of what you need and she just never did them that maybe your mind is made up for a good reason.

If it was important to her, she would change.
If it was important to her, she'd want to go out for your anniversary.

The bottom line is; it's not important to her.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> so we aren't going, and i don't want to do anything for this now. nothing. no flowers, no card, no i love you, no dinner, no nothing. this isn't resentful feelings, trying to inflict some pain, but i simply just don't care.


I find that a bit hard to believe. At a minimum you would acknowledge the best years and time together. So it has changed, no relationships are a constant. The anniversary is a date to recognize the forest, not the recent trees, and if you don't recoginze it, then it is really hard to believe you are not doing it because of resentment or sending a clear message. Pain.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

nope, i disagree whole heartedly. i did have plans. i did acknowledge our years and was planning, despite our issues, to have a good time. she is the one that denied that from happening. and im not going to adjust just because it's not convenient for her. 

manning up is about getting what i need, right. so not doing anything isn't out of spite, it's because i've done as much as i need to, and that's all i'm prepared to give in regards to me needs.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I think if she actually has an itemized list of what you need and she just never did them that maybe your mind is made up for a good reason.
> 
> If it was important to her, she would change.
> If it was important to her, she'd want to go out for your anniversary.
> ...


that's kinda what i was thinking... i guess if she wants to come along on my journey i'll have her, but i'm done serving her every wish and whim. 

when you look at the goals we both have, with a rationale eye, it just doesn't make sense to be together even if we were not having these issues

either way, i'm proceeding with "MY" vacation this weekend, and we'll see what happens. i'll change me. that's all i can do. if it doesn't work, well then, we've wasted enough time and it's time to move on.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

*** update***

ok, so i think i made a mistake... not sure. 

so this weekend was our anniversary. i told her i was going and she was welcome. I fully intended on leaving. she got mad at me, tried to twist the facts, to which i calmly replied and told her what the real issue was - was that she in fact didn't want to go this weekend, she was deprioritizing our marriage, and that her school work was more important... that there wasn't anything else going on except for that. she got upset as i was walking away, i calmly told her that i would see her when i got back, to which she replied "maybe not". instead of just leaving, i asked her if she wanted to talk about it... we argued a bit, and then she begrudgingly decided t o come. 

only a few hours into out trip, she totally flipped around and we had a stupendous time. 

did i mess this up? the manning up part...?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

i guess the point i'm trying to make, is that after everything we did this weekend, i still feel the same.

can anyone help me understand what's going on here?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Not a single reply... thanks people
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Matty, manning up is being comfortable in your own skin, knowing what you want, and being ok with being honest about it and going and getting it. It does not really sound like you got what you wanted this weekend.

To start, it sounds like is that you wanted to leave, which was a solid first step. You let your wife talk you into staying and arguing, which was not what you wanted, so you lost ground there. You argued until she decided to go, which flies in the face of the idea that you were going to go with or without her. Once she won and got what she wanted out of you, she had a fantastic time, and you came back to us wondering why you don't feel like you got what you wanted.

Next time, if you want to go, go. Ask her to come. If she starts in on her usual stuff, just say something like, "I would have loved your company, but I'm off. See you later." And go. Don't spout on post after post about how you are definitely going, and then let her take control and stop you until she decides it's ok to go. 

No offense but you sound desperate for approval. What do you want? Don't wait for us or your wife to tell you that you did good. Just do it. If it really is good and your wife really wants to go, she'll find a way to join you, and the first time it works the way it should, you will feel so good you'll know it worked.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

deparate for approval?? -- probably. i shouldn't be, because deep down I know what i think i need to do. 

however, with my religious upbringing, divorce is probably the worst thing anyone could ever do. that "option" out, is so bad, and is so ingrained in me, that despite me knowing what i need to do, i'm still not comfortable with it. even though i want to be...

this weekend was still fun, but coming home, i realized that nothing changed. 

yesterday, i wanted to go eat at Olive Garden, and she didn't. I told her i was going, and that she could come. she didn't and I left. eerily, it did feel good. not even 15 minutes into it, she called. she called again 20 minutes later and sent a text. i came back after an hour and a half, and she apologized. 

sincere apology? who knows. who cares. 

the weird thing, is when i'm at work I'm pretty resigned with what i need to do. when i get home, i'm so super confused it's ridiculous. 

i'm sure i'll figure it out. 

the fun thing though, is I'm finally starting to ask myself what i want from life, and what i want to do, and it's actually very invigorating. then i tell myself that i'm awesome, and that i deserve better. future life seems so much better, why is it so hard to make up my mind though?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> yesterday, i wanted to go eat at Olive Garden, and she didn't. I told her i was going, and that she could come. she didn't and I left.  eerily, it did feel good. not even 15 minutes into it, she called. she called again 20 minutes later and sent a text. i came back after an hour and a half, and she apologized.


:yay:

It felt good because you did what you wanted, and guess what, she noticed!


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

yeah, she did. she said she didn't like it. LOL. 

so this week, i'm going to happy hour with a buddy today, gonna hang out with a different friend on thursday, and I'm trying to figure out what i'm going to do this weekend. 

i think one of the challenges i'm going to face is how to do this without being a total jerk. seems like a really fine line being independant in a dependant relationship, and being a total as*


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> yesterday, i wanted to go eat at Olive Garden, and she didn't. I told her i was going, and that she could come. she didn't and I left. eerily, it did feel good. not even 15 minutes into it, she called. she called again 20 minutes later and sent a text. i came back after an hour and a half, and she apologized.
> 
> sincere apology? who knows. who cares.


Good move, right there. It looks like you're on the right track. Just keep in mind that you'll want to throw in a few options for both of you to spend time together. Again, ask, and if she finds an excuse not to go, then go yourself or find something else to do and go do it, just like you did with Olive Garden. No begging, no letting her drag you into an argument. Eventually, she will take more of a part in your relationship activities or you'll wind up going your separate ways.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

something just dawned on me the other day while i was in my solitary time ... 

if my wife is selfish and doesn't care about my needs, one solution would be because i'm a nice guy and smother her, yada yada yada....

now i didn't think about this for some reason until now, but she treats her friends the same way. she never calls them to hang out, but responds to their requests. she always is the opinionated one of the group and is always wanting to do what she wants. the only difference between how she treats me and her friends - she doesn't have sex with them 

i'm proceeding with the "manning up" process and i love it so far..., but doesn't this mean that the problem i'm having is more rooted in who she is, rather than just how she treats me because i'm a nice guy?


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