# Girl doesn't know how many lovers?



## rep

Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue. 
She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count. 
I was blown away. I know my number.
I always thought females def kept count?
This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


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## ButtPunch

No...I wouldn't ask her anything more. She told you she was promiscuous. Either move on or accept it.


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## Jellybeans

I don't see what good "asking her figure it out" will do if you already see it as a "huge red flag."

Just don't go out with her again if you're not into her.

So many fish in the sea! (no pun intended. Lol).


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## ChristianGrey

Maybe arithmetic is not her forte.

Or maybe she thought it was a nuisance question to ask a lady.


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## 2ntnuf

Figure 1,000,000 or everyone you meet when you are with her. Would you be okay with that number? If not, find someone else. 

What I am saying is, it's not the number, it's what you believe to be okay. I don't think you are wrong, nor she. It's preference and opinion. We can't all be the same. We just want to avoid forcing someone to conform to our ideas or breaking a firm boundary. 

I can tell, this has shaken your respect for her. Time to move on and/or change how you see things, maybe? Don't know how you could change that in yourself? I guess by sleeping with a million women? That's ridiculous. I don't know.


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## toonaive

No clue? but, then she could figure it out? She have her gaslight answer. You either accept that she was promiscuous, or move along.


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## tonedef

I am thinking she does know, but it is a large number and she is insecure about it OR she genuinely doesnt remember because of the above. Regardless, both or any reason is bad imo. Kinda makes you wonder what else she could conveniently forget?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChristianGrey

Or atleast she didn't try to lie about it.


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## Jellybeans

tascam said:


> RUN RUN RUN. This is what women are doing today. So many are sexing with every TOM, D.ICK AND HAIRY. *By the time they get to you, they have hidden or not hidden STDs and 100K miles on them. Make sure you strap up with these skanks*


Yes!!!! Womenz are wh-0-rez!!!


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## ConanHub

Run. She knows and will probably lie to make you like her more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChristianGrey

You guys need to relax a bit and not jump to conclusions.

If someone asked me "how many women I have forked" the first time we met, I would have said the same thing or something even more silly.

Wouldn't mean anything but just a nice way to say the metaphorical, _fork you too_.


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## richie33

tascam said:


> RUN RUN RUN. This is what women are doing today. So many are sexing with every TOM, D.ICK AND HAIRY. By the time they get to you, they have hidden or not hidden STDs and 100K miles on them. Make sure you strap up with these skanks


Wow.


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## Observer

I would not worry about to be honest. Having a high number of partners does not mean you cannot be faithful...


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## ConanHub

I actually am not one that cares. I just don't like BS and lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> *I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?*
> *This seems to be a huge red flag to me.*
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


What was the red flag? That she didn't keep count?

You know she was single a long time, and that she had lovers during that time. Not everyone feels a need to know the exact number at all times in their head, and they don't keep every lover over the past 10-20 years top of mind, so they would need to give it some thought to determine the exact number.

I don't see why it's a red flag that she didn't keep count. Unless the red flag is that she has had multiple lovers?


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## happy as a clam

Some people sleep around with lots of different partners -- first dates, one night stands, it's been a week and they're h*rny, etc. And they don't make apologies about it or see a thing wrong with it.

It doesn't sound like you are one of those people, but she is.

You won't be a good match with this glaring difference of values, so I think it's time to pack it up, move along.

For the record, I don't think this automatically makes her a sk*nk, a wh*re, a potential cheater, etc.  If she was practicing safe sex with her partners, who are we to judge what her "number" is?

Just decide whether or not it's a number you can live with. (Personally, I wouldn't even want to KNOW the number and I doubt the topic would have ever come up.)


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## Jellybeans

richie33 said:


> Wow.


You should read his other posts about womenz. Here since 2008, and only 7 posts.


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## ChristianGrey

Or maybe she is a virgin but didn't want to say it as many guys don't like inexperienced girls.


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## richie33

Jellybeans said:


> You should read his other posts about women folk. Here since 2008, and only 7 posts.


Can't wait to read the gem he grants us in 2015.


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## Jellybeans

happy as a clam said:


> You won't be a good match with this glaring difference of values, so I think it's time to pack it up, move along.


Word. And that is what this comes down to.

Dating is a time to find out if you're compatible. 

He isn't into it so he should bail now. Why waste more time/money on dates?

There are billions of people on this beautiful planet!


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## Jellybeans

ChristianGrey said:


> Or maybe she is a virgin but didn't want to say it as many guys don't like inexperienced girls.


That would be the ultimate twist! 

I do love that Christian Grey has joined TAM! Who knew?! Welcome!


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## ConanHub

happy as a clam said:


> Some people sleep around with lots of different partners -- first dates, one night stands, it's been a week and they're h*rny, etc. And they don't make apologies about it or see a thing wrong with it.
> 
> It doesn't sound like you are one of those people, but she is.
> 
> You won't be a good match with this glaring difference of values, so I think it's time to pack it up, move along.


Pretty much. I think she is probably embarrassed. Just because your single doesn't mean you have to fill up at many men's pumps.

Like I said. People just need to be honest about this sh!T. A lot of people care about numbers. I only care about honesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustTired

rep,

It seems like you are taking issue with that. Cut your losses & move on. This lady is not your GF only a person you hung out with, you don't ever have to call her again or hang out with her again. At date 3, I would not discuss how many sexual partners I had with another man or even give him a number. It doesn't mean that I have mounted 100s of men, it just means that at this particular moment it is none of your business. 

Since you have already judged this woman it has tainted whatever chaste image you have of her. Let her go so that she can find another man who will fully accept her for who she is. Don't bother with finding out her number, just move on.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening rep
She is sexually experienced - I don't see how the exact number makes any difference. If she doesn't know, its probably more than 10, maybe a lot more. 

Its entirely up to you if this is OK. If it isn't, or if you are going to keep stressing about it, then find someone else. You are doing yourself and her no favor at all if this will be lurking in the back of your mind.


Personally I wouldn't care. If I thought my partner had recently been very active, I might suggest that we both get tested for STDs, but otherwise is not a problem. I'd even consider it a plus - I very much like the idea of a woman who enthusiastically enjoys sex, and that is more likely with someone who has been very active.


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## Eagle3

Well she cant be out of control. This was your 3rd date and she didnt try to jump your bones.

Curious how did this come up on the date? Was it part of a discussion or did you just come out and ask her? Everyone is different and like others have said if that is a red flag its early just cut loose so you are not always thinking of it. At least she didnt lie which if you found out later would really have made it worse.

I think people with low numbers get freaked out with people with more partners than them. One is not better than the other. I dont think women that have decent amount of partners are sl*ts or that men who do are dogs. Just people with a variety.


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## rep

It will bug me. I'm a little old fashioned. I believe in chivalry and I believe on needing some sense of purity in a women to place them on a pedestal. 
I just feel that asking her will cause un-repairable damage???
I don't wznt to be with her for 6 months and find out the number is 40 or so.
Personally, I couldn't handle it.
At least I don't think I could.
She is wonderful and the best I've found in a long long time but it would nag me forever


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## JustTired

Eagle3 said:


> I think people with low numbers get freaked out with people with more partners than them. One is not better than the other. I dont think women that have decent amount of partners are sl*ts or that men who do are dogs. Just people with a variety.


:iagree:

This is exactly how I view it too.


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## JustTired

rep said:


> It will bug me. I'm a little old fashioned. I believe in chivalry and I believe on needing some sense of purity in a women to place them on a pedestal.
> I just feel that asking her will cause un-repairable damage???
> I don't wznt to be with her for 6 months and find out the number is 40 or so.
> Personally, I couldn't handle it.
> At least I don't think I could.
> She is wonderful and the best I've found in a long long time but it would nag me forever


Let her go. You will never fully accept her no matter what her number is at this point.


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## ReidWright

maybe a better question would be about 'major' relationships, based on length of time.

If she's never dated anyone longer than a few months, that'd be a better indication of issues. 

Did she tell you her basic history (# of marriages, engagements, kids, etc)?


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## ButtPunch

rep said:


> It will bug me. I'm a little old fashioned. I believe in chivalry and I believe on needing some sense of purity in a women to place them on a pedestal.
> I just feel that asking her will cause un-repairable damage???
> I don't wznt to be with her for 6 months and find out the number is 40 or so.
> Personally, I couldn't handle it.
> At least I don't think I could.
> She is wonderful and the best I've found in a long long time but it would nag me forever


She has given you your answer. Time to move on.


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## ConanHub

I think the point is just be honest. I wouldn't have a problem unless her number was in the triple digits. I have some limits. 

I also get pissed when self righteous posters come on these threads acting like OP has a problem for having this standard. Some men don't care if she has serviced more men than a restroom but some do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hubbydude

I think some of the comments in this thread are really quite harsh and dare I say sexist.

If you're someone who is particularly discerning in who you sleep with then it's reasonable to look for that quality in your partner. If you're someone who happily slept around then you can look for a discerning partner if you like, but you have no right to complain about someone who put it around a lot. If, like most guys, you're someone who was 'discerning' only because few girls wanted to have sex with you....pfff, do whatever feels right to you.

But don't ask her to come up with a number, because whatever she tells you it won't be the truth. I'm sure she's already worked out that you're uncomfortable at the though of her having lots of previous partners so she won't be inclined to be entirely open with you.


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## 2ntnuf

Or, throw a raincoat on and give it to her good a few times while you are looking. Just make sure you let her know you are looking to just date at this time. It will up your numbers so you can maybe have a little change of heart, you'll get a little and so will she, and you can search for a long-term partner that's suitable.


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## ConanHub

2ntnuf said:


> Or, throw a raincoat on and give it to her good a few times while you are looking. Just make sure you let her know you are looking to just date at this time. It will up your numbers so you can maybe have a little change of heart, you'll get a little and so will she, and you can search for a long-term partner that's suitable.


Errkk!? LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ConanHub said:


> I think the point is just be honest.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She was honest. She has no clue. She's been single a long time and doesn't keep count. That's honesty. 

A while ago I was reading another # of partners thread and had to think for a bit to figure mine out, then a while later add a person I had forgotten about, and my number is fairly average. Some people just don't care to keep a tally and be able to list it off the top of their head when asked. 

H would have no clue how many. That's him being honest.


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## ConanHub

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She was honest. She has no clue. She's been single a long time and doesn't keep count. That's honesty.
> 
> A while ago I was reading another # of partners thread and had to think for a bit to figure mine out, then a while later add a person I had forgotten about, and my number is fairly average. Some people just don't care to keep a tally and be able to list it off the top of their head when asked.
> 
> H would have no clue how many. That's him being honest.


Everyone knows their ballpark. I would definitely run from someone that truly could nit even come close to remembering how many human beings had been in them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rep

She was married 9 years and had a 3 year relationship. Been divorced since 2006
We had sex on 2nd date. On 3rd date we erred watching Spartacus and a sex scene. I asked if she has ever had threesome. She said yes, twice. She explained them.
It promoted the numbers question. 
She said,,, I don't know, I never kept count. She is an extremely honest person.
I feel that the number is high and I need to know. Guess it's best to just text and ask and get it over with. If it's high,, I need too move on. 
It's a shame bc I I really do like her


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## 2ntnuf

If you like her that much and she has been good to you, give her some respect man. I think, with this last bit of info, she is being honest. Just be honest with her and let the chips fall as they may. If she wants just a sexual relationship, do it if you can. Look for someone who is more compatible. I know my post read like a joke and I thought it was humorous, too. It's truth. It's what happens. So, join the club. I'm sure you will find there are lots of women out there. This one, if you treat her well, will likely speak well of you. You then are in. You'll have plenty of her friends vying for your attention. It's your choice. Some of her friends will be like her. Others, won't be. See?


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## GusPolinski

ButtPunch said:


> No...I wouldn't ask her anything more. She told you she was promiscuous. Either move on or accept it.


Or both!


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## Jellybeans

rep said:


> It will bug me.
> 
> I just feel that asking her will cause un-repairable damage???
> 
> I don't wznt to be with her for 6 months and find out the number is 40 or so.
> Personally, I couldn't handle it.


I guess I don't see the point of you asking again? She told you she "Doesn't know." That translates to she doesn't want to share (or maybe she really just doesn't know). You are not ok with that. Why continue dating if it's going to bug you? Three dates isn't that long of an investment.


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## D.H Mosquito

On the positive side she didn't lie and say just two, everyone has a past if you like her see her again and take it from there and enjoy what you have for the moment, it's time to stop putting women on a pedestal and realise they get as horny as we do and not hold it against anyone male or female who has a few more sexual encounters than we do


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## Fozzy

If you had sex with her on the second date, why would you think you were the first person that had?

If you had sex with her on the second date, what should she infer about YOUR character?


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## 2ntnuf

She's horny. He's horny. I don't see the issue. Not everyone s/he slept with is compatible for a long-term relationship.


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## ConanHub

Mr Useless said:


> On the positive side she didn't lie and say just two, everyone has a past if you like her see her again and take it from there and enjoy what you have for the moment, it's time to stop putting women on a pedestal and realise they get as horny as we do and not hold it against anyone male or female who has a few more sexual encounters than we do


I mostly agree with you but who are you to tell anyone what their standards should be? Does anyone get this? People have a right to have preferences in partners. Number of past partners, sexual acts performed, with how many at once, etc....

Honestly, everyone posting here has SOMETHING that they will not stomach about a partners past. That is their business. Every one of us has some criteria.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

ConanHub said:


> I mostly agree with you but who are you to tell anyone what their standards should be? Does anyone get this? People have a right to have preferences in partners. Number of past partners, sexual acts performed, with how many at once, etc....
> 
> Honestly, everyone posting here has SOMETHING that they will not stomach about a partners past. That is their business. Every one of us has some criteria.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


^^^-------This!


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## ConanHub

Fozzy said:


> If you had sex with her on the second date, why would you think you were the first person that had?
> 
> If you had sex with her on the second date, what should she infer about YOUR character?


Okay. Now I am morbidly curious. OP, what is your number? It is a fair question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ButtPunch

I will say it again....she has already given you your answer. You are still refusing to accept that answer.


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## rep

I've had 12
I didn't see how she had given me her number. She said that she would sit down snd figure it out if I need get to.
It's a red flag but I really like her. 
Most men would sgree, I tin k, mileage does matter.


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## NobodySpecial

Jellybeans said:


> Yes!!!! Womenz are wh-0-rez!!!


That made me literally laugh out loud.


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## ConanHub

rep said:


> I've had 12
> I didn't see how she had given me her number. She said that she would sit down snd figure it out if I need get to.
> It's a red flag but I really like her.
> Most men would sgree, I tin k, mileage does matter.


Just so you know. I respect your preferences but if she was really great and totally devoted to me, I would go for it. Loyalty is awesome!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> That made me literally laugh out loud.


I'm still giggling!&#55357;&#56836;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane

rep said:


> I've had 12
> I didn't see how she had given me her number. She said that she would sit down snd figure it out if I need get to.
> It's a red flag but I really like her.
> Most men would sgree, I tin k, mileage does matter.


Well, if you dump her because you think she's had too many partners even though you've already slept with her, then you've added another number to your list. If you do that with the next woman, you'll add another number, and so on. If you're single for a long time, imagine how high your number will be. You will become that which is giving you pause with her history, someone with, as you say, mileage.

If numbers are important, maybe you should discuss them before you have sex with someone.


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## ConanHub

norajane said:


> Well, if you dump her because you think she's had too many partners even though you've already slept with her, then you've added another number to your list. If you do that with the next woman, you'll add another number, and so on. If you're single for a long time, imagine how high your number will be. You will become that which is giving you pause with her history, someone with, as you say, mileage.
> 
> If numbers are important, maybe you should discuss them before you have sex with someone.


Actually can't agree more. OP. You really should adopt this if you move passed this lady.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rep

Yes ibshouod have. I don't have a lot of dating expierence. Will certaintly inquire in the future. Since I'm going to ask. How would you guys ask ??


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

rep said:


> Yes ibshouod have. I don't have a lot of dating expierence. Will certaintly inquire in the future. Since I'm going to ask. How would you guys ask ??


Understand that you asking and needing to know will be a deal breaker for some women, even those with a lower number than you. 

But just be honest and say that # of partners is a deal breaker for you and you need to know her number before you can decide if you want to date her.


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## PBear

I would guess she knows her number, or at least her "ballpark". And she didn't really want to share it, because she's either scared guys off before or she feels you'll get scared off. 

You could always ask her... Is it more than xxx? Whatever your personal "ewwww" threshold is, and not ask for specifics. She should be able to tell you that without taking out a calculator. And you can go from there. 

Do you have other "No go" zones? The threesome or moresomes? If you feel you may be squeamish about some of her history, either ask early or don't ask at all.

C


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## Fozzy

rep said:


> Yes ibshouod have. I don't have a lot of dating expierence. Will certaintly inquire in the future. Since I'm going to ask. How would you guys ask ??


I wouldn't. Like Conan said--if she's awesome and you like her, put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala"


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## ConanHub

I would do it face to face and be caring. Let her know you screwed up by going physical before finding out about each other. Let her know she is wonderful but you have a hang up,yes say it that way, about past numbers. Be honest and super humble. This woman did love you with her body and you are almost dishonoring her with your limits now. 

You should also assure her that there are many hunky studs that would love to be with her.

I am a hunky stud so I would know.&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zackie

rep said:


> I've had 12
> I didn't see how she had given me her number. She said that she would sit down snd figure it out if I need get to.
> It's a red flag but I really like her.
> Most men would sgree, I tin k, mileage does matter.


Above what number would be unacceptable to you?


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## ConanHub

Fozzy said:


> I wouldn't. Like Conan said--if she's awesome and you like her, put your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala"


I seriously wish he would. Good women are worth everything. But RJ and other issues can suck bad later on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy

What if it was only one guy, but it was millions of times doing obscene things and he was totally the best she would ever experience and you could NEVER compare?

But it was just one guy?


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## ConanHub

Fozzy said:


> What if it was only one guy, but it was millions of times doing obscene things and he was totally the best she would ever experience and you could NEVER compare?
> 
> But it was just one guy?


Hey! That guy was me.&#55357;&#56840;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brandy905

You slept with her on your second date and NOW after that you are concerned about her number?? Maybe she should find out how many 2nd dates you had.


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## Wolf1974

norajane said:


> Well, if you dump her because you think she's had too many partners even though you've already slept with her, then you've added another number to your list. If you do that with the next woman, you'll add another number, and so on. If you're single for a long time, imagine how high your number will be. You will become that which is giving you pause with her history, someone with, as you say, mileage.
> 
> *If numbers are important, maybe you should discuss them before you have sex with someone*.


Well this exactly. OP I don't treat sex causually and don't have a high number. If I asked a woman how many partners she had and she said I don't know then either she is being evasive or its so high she honestly doesn't know. Either case not a match for me. 

That being said Nora is right if this is a deal breaker for you this needs to be flushed out PRIOR to sex not after the fact. While I am inline with your philosophy about not treating sex casually you slept with her on the second date and then want to hold it against her it seems. Not cool.


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## EleGirl

tascam said:


> RUN RUN RUN. This is what women are doing today. So many are sexing with every TOM, D.ICK AND HAIRY. By the time they get to you, they have hidden or not hidden STDs and 100K miles on them. Make sure you strap up with these skanks


Apparently every TOM, D!CK and HAIRY is doing a lot of sexing as well and hiding STDs and 100K miles on them. 

After all, who do you think women are sexing with?


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## EleGirl

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?
> This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


How old are the two of you?


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## rep

Not sure to answer your question
Ex wife had 12
Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
Gf of 3 months had 4
We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


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## rep

Ex wife 42 age
Both gf are 36
I'm 43
This girl is 43


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## 2ntnuf

Brandy905 said:


> You slept with her on your second date and NOW after that you are concerned about her number?? Maybe she should find out how many 2nd dates you had.


12, or by TAM calculations, 6.  

He made a mistake in my book. You don't do that and then decide. You ask only if you have to, and then decide. Not really very respectful to ask, but better than this. A few more dates and maybe a bit of conversation and just paying attention would bring out some things he might question. So many times though, it's easy to hide this stuff from a novice(like me) and then marry the guy and he finds out later that what was represented was not what was. Better to know sooner than later, even if it's not so nice, it isn't the end of the world. Plenty of men will be more willing to compromise. He doesn't have to, if he doesn't want to. And after knowing the truth of how he feels, would she really want to be with him? That's another red flag. She doesn't value herself enough to be with someone that respects her for who she is? 

We all make mistakes.


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## GusPolinski

Fozzy said:


> If you had sex with her on the second date, why would you think you were the first person that had?
> 
> If you had sex with her on the second date, what should she infer about YOUR character?


Wocka wocka!


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## PBear

*Re: Re: Girl doesn't know how many lovers?*



rep said:


> Not sure to answer your question
> Ex wife had 12
> Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
> Gf of 3 months had 4
> We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


Then dating someone who puts out on a second date may not work so well for you... 

My SO's number is about 10x mine, and it doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong, but it just might make you incompatible. Better to find out now rather than be trickletruthed later. Stick by your principles, no matter what they are. 

C


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## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> Pretty much. I think she is probably embarrassed. Just because your single doesn't mean you have to fill up at many men's pumps.
> 
> Like I said. People just need to be honest about this sh!T. A lot of people care about numbers. I only care about honesty.


If I was asked to give a number right now, I couldn't. Not because I'm embarrassed, not because it's some high number, not because I'm a tramp. It's because I have never counted. No one has ever asked me. I've never asked a guy that question either. It's not important to me because I'm quite ok with myself.

I did not even know that some guys ask that question until I started posting on TAM in 2011.


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## Jellybeans

GusPolinski said:


> Wocka wocka!


I love that you said this.


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## ConanHub

rep said:


> Not sure to answer your question
> Ex wife had 12
> Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
> Gf of 3 months had 4
> We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


You should keep the tone respectful after all you already enjoyed yourself with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rep

I don't get the impression that she feels they are not mistakes!!


----------



## devotion

Whenever I read these threads there seems to be a polar divide between people on this issue. I don't get it. Either it matters to you or it doesn't. People who it doesn't matter to should get along with other people who it doesn't matter to. Same for the other way. 

It matters to me, I asked the question, got a number that was under my personal limit. I gave my GF the same info; I'm not sure if it meant as much to her, but she did tell me there was a number that was too high, but I wasn't close to that so it wasn't an issue. If we are at each other's limits then we'd have to work through it or decide if it was a dealbreaker. Thankfully, we have plenty of other issues to work through, not that one. LOL 

There is nothing wrong with someone who's had sex with so many partners they can't remember. There's also nothing wrong with you if that is not acceptable to you. You're just another notch in their bedpost, but just remember, you just got aged one more for the next lady that might think your number is now too high


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> If I was asked to give a number right now, I couldn't. Not because I'm embarrassed, not because it's some high number, not because I'm a tramp. It's because I have never counted. No one has ever asked me. I've never asked a guy that question either. It's not important to me because I'm quite ok with myself.
> 
> I did not even know that some guys ask that question until I started posting on TAM in 2011.


No offense Eli. Most people know a ballpark figure. A while ago I actually seriously underestimated my number until I counted. You and the others are right. Some people might not keep an idea of a number.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolf1974

devotion said:


> Whenever I read these threads there seems to be a polar divide between people on this issue. I don't get it. *Either it matters to you or it doesn't. People who it doesn't matter to should get along with other people who it doesn't matter to. Same for the other way. *
> 
> It matters to me, I asked the question, got a number that was under my personal limit. I gave my GF the same info; I'm not sure if it meant as much to her, but she did tell me there was a number that was too high, but I wasn't close to that so it wasn't an issue. If we are at each other's limits then we'd have to work through it or decide if it was a dealbreaker. Thankfully, we have plenty of other issues to work through, not that one. LOL
> 
> There is nothing wrong with someone who's had sex with so many partners they can't remember. There's also nothing wrong with you if that is not acceptable to you. You're just another notch in their bedpost, but just remember, you just got aged one more for the next lady that might think your number is now too high


 I agree but that doesn't seem to be the TAM way. But I do agree with you


----------



## 2ntnuf

If you are here to get folks to talk you into having a relationship with her, you are making a mistake. This one is done. You need to find another. It will be tough to let this number thing go completely with this woman. There are other women out there. What's that saying? "Live to fight another day"?


----------



## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> Everyone knows their ballpark. I would definitely run from someone that truly could nit even come close to remembering how many human beings had been in them.


If someone asks what your number is, giving a ballpark figure will backfire.

Let's say 10 is your ballpark. But later you realize you forgot about one person... so 11 is your real number. Down the line the topic comes up and you tell your partner 11. Now you will accused of lying, withholding, info, ext.

If you say less than 20 just to be safe... well then you are judged as having 20 when the real number is 11.


----------



## norajane

rep said:


> Not sure to answer your question
> Ex wife had 12
> Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
> Gf of 3 months had 4
> We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


It didn't feel gross to you when you were having sex with her, did it? But now it does?


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> If someone asks what your number is, giving a ballpark figure will backfire.
> 
> Let's say 10 is your ballpark. But later you realize you forgot about one person... so 11 is your real number. Down the line the topic comes up and you tell your partner 11. Now you will accused of lying, withholding, info, ext.
> 
> If you say less than 20 just to be safe... well then you are judged as having 20 when the real number is 11.


If it backfires the person isn't right for you. 

My wife doesn't care and neither do I so maybe that is why I was off on my count.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Steve1000

rep said:


> I don't wznt to be with her for 6 months and find out the number is 40 or so.
> Personally, I couldn't handle it.
> At least I don't think I could.
> She is wonderful and the best I've found in a long long time but it would nag me forever


This lady may have slept with 40 others previously, but the next lady you meet may very well tell you that she slept with 2 previously but actually had 45. You asked this lady a difficult question on a 3rd date and she didn't attempt to lie to you. To me, that's much more valuable. Of course a better liar would allow you to live in blissful ignorance. Truth is, you'll never know someone's exact number of previous partners.


----------



## norajane

devotion said:


> Whenever I read these threads there seems to be a polar divide between people on this issue. I don't get it. Either it matters to you or it doesn't. *People who it doesn't matter to should get along with other people who it doesn't matter to. Same for the other way. *


I agree with you. It just seems that a guy who has sex on the second date is not conveying the message with his own behavior that numbers matter, especially when they don't even ask until after they've had sex. That sounds like only her numbers matter even though he's being just as casual about sex. I think that's an ugly mindset: it's ok for me to have sex on the second date, but if you do it, it's gross.


----------



## EleGirl

norajane said:


> Well, if you dump her because you think she's had too many partners even though you've already slept with her, then you've added another number to your list. If you do that with the next woman, you'll add another number, and so on. If you're single for a long time, imagine how high your number will be. You will become that which is giving you pause with her history, someone with, as you say, mileage.
> 
> *If numbers are important, maybe you should discuss them before you have sex with someone*.


:iagree: THIS


Several of the guys here have a 3 date rule. If she does not have sex by the 3rd date, move on. But those same guys don't want women with a high number (what constitutes a high number is individual. Usually it's some number less than his number.)

If her number is important to you, then don't use her for sex and then ask her. Let her know up front, before sex what matters to you. Let her know so that she too has a choice before being used.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

rep said:


> I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


I'm a respectable person with a respectable number but would not be with someone who cared about that number. If asked I would say if it's important to you, we are not compatible. Not because my number is high but because we don't see sex the same way and I don't want issues later on. 

So you need to find someone who IS compatible with you are your need to know.


----------



## EleGirl

rep said:


> I don't get the impression that she feels they are not mistakes!!


Why should she think that they are mistakes? Was her having sex with you a mistake?


----------



## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> No offense Eli. Most people know a ballpark figure. A while ago I actually seriously underestimated my number until I counted. You and the others are right. Some people might not keep an idea of a number.


The OP did not ask for a ballpark figure. He asked for an exact number. So my reply was about an exact number, not a ballpark figure.

With my 2 marriages I was with them for 35 years. During that time it was just those two men respectively in those relationships. 

I would have to sit down and think about relationships from more than 35 years ago. I have a ballpark in my mind, it's not high. But I certainly could not come up with an exact number off the top of my head. 

(of course maybe I'm suffering from Oldsheimers and just going senile  )


----------



## EleGirl

2ntnuf said:


> If you are here to get folks to talk you into having a relationship with her, you are making a mistake. This one is done. You need to find another. It will be tough to let this number thing go completely with this woman. There are other women out there. What's that saying? "Live to fight another day"?


:iagree:

There is no coming back from this, even if she gives you number lower than your own (and it's the correct number). You will never believe her.

Next time let the woman know up front about the things that matter to you... before you have sex with her.


----------



## EleGirl

ConanHub said:


> If it backfires the person isn't right for you.
> 
> My wife doesn't care and neither do I so maybe that is why I was off on my count.


I agree that's what it means. Unfortunately, that second conversation when it turns out that the given ballpark figure is one too low can come years into the relationship. That's a bit too late to find out that your spouse will be calling you a liar because the ballpark figure was off by one.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

ConanHub said:


> I mostly agree with you but who are you to tell anyone what their standards should be? Does anyone get this? People have a right to have preferences in partners. Number of past partners, sexual acts performed, with how many at once, etc....
> 
> Honestly, everyone posting here has SOMETHING that they will not stomach about a partners past. That is their business. Every one of us has some criteria.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes i do get it and i'm not telling him what his standards should be either, he asked for opinions and got mine if i came across as telling him what his standards should be then fair enough but that's not what i intended, if it is in reference to the pedestal then that was just about how we see women/spouses in general as most of us are here because of how we see our relationships and the pedsetal we can put our partners on


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> I agree that's what it means. Unfortunately, that second conversation when it turns out that the given ballpark figure is one too low can come years into the relationship. That's a bit too late to find out that your spouse will be calling you a liar because the ballpark figure was off by one.


Yeah. I wouldn't commit to someone that finicky anyway. I don't even have your stretch, 23 years, and I was off at first. Counted earlier this year. My actual number was about 5x my original guess.

Maybe I'm getting some oldtimmers.&#55357;&#56844;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waylan

tascam said:


> RUN RUN RUN. This is what women are doing today. So many are sexing with every TOM, D.ICK AND HAIRY. By the time they get to you, they have hidden or not hidden STDs and 100K miles on them. Make sure you strap up with these skanks


So much wrong.

Would you want a surgeon operating on you that has never performed a surgery before (or just done a couple) or a surgeon that has completed a hundred? Look at the bright side - she is women that *likes* have sex - that probably means you'll have an active sex life with her. Plus she is probably pretty good at it.

Better question is - Have you ever had *unprotected sex* and if that is a yes how does she know she is std free?


----------



## ConanHub

Mr Useless said:


> Yes i do get it and i'm not telling him what his standards should be either, he asked for opinions and got mine if i came across as telling him what his standards should be then fair enough but that's not what i intended


Cool. I usually see a lot of "just get over it, OP is wrong" kind of advice on "numbers" threads. Guess I mistook ya.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## D.H Mosquito

ConanHub said:


> Cool. I usually see a lot of "just get over it, OP is wrong" kind of advice on "numbers" threads. Guess I mistook ya.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheers bud, sometimes with me the coherent thought and what happens when keyboard and fingers meet are at odds with each other


----------



## Holland

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> * I always thought females def kept count?*
> This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


What made you think that? 

Men complain about women that don't enjoy sex and they complain about women that do 

Have to say though this "numbers" thing seems very prevalent on TAM, not an issue that I have ever heard about IRL. It seems very possessive and immature.


----------



## 2ntnuf

waylan said:


> So much wrong.
> 
> Would you want a surgeon operating on you that has never performed a surgery before (or just done a couple) or a surgeon that has completed a hundred? Look at the bright side - she is women that *likes* have sex - that probably means you'll have an active sex life with her. Plus she is probably pretty good at it.
> 
> Better question is - Have you ever had *unprotected sex* and if that is a yes how does she know she is std free?


Yes, she likes men. That doesn't mean she likes commitment. Something like a woman who was in longer term relationships seems like someone who is committed to one man and likes sex. 

Numbers do not equate with ability. In my experience, they only equated to someone who had tried or done things that I never did. This is dependent upon the individual. Just like, I used to play basketball all the time. I was pretty good in the little circle of friends I had, but not when I left the area and played against others. I was not even in the same universe as an NBA player, but I enjoyed playing as often as I could. I played H O R S E, one on one, three on three, long and short, around the world, and a couple others I can't remember.


----------



## ButtPunch

I remember my wife asking me how many and I gave the same lame answer rep's gf did? I told her I didn't know.

I guess I could ballpark it but let's just say I was in double digits before I left high school. 

OP.....If numbers matter, you need to move along.


----------



## ConanHub

Holland said:


> What made you think that?
> 
> Men complain about women that don't enjoy sex and they complain about women that do
> 
> Have to say though this "numbers" thing seems very prevalent on TAM, not an issue that I have ever heard about IRL. It seems very possessive and immature.


It's not about liking sex, it's about liking it with a gazillion people! There is a difference.

It also does not follow gender but I do see a higher number of men.

Preferences are not immature. If I had gone all the way with a man my wife would actually be someone else's right now. It might have been my past but it was her preference. See?&#55357;&#56842;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch

It took me 8 years to get out of college so that really padded my stats.


----------



## ConanHub

ButtPunch said:


> It took me 8 years to get out of college so that really padded my stats.


What happens in college does skeeve me out! There are many college girls that I would have a problem with their past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ikaika

happy as a clam said:


> Some people sleep around with lots of different partners -- first dates, one night stands, it's been a week and they're h*rny, etc. And they don't make apologies about it or see a thing wrong with it.
> 
> It doesn't sound like you are one of those people, but she is.
> 
> You won't be a good match with this glaring difference of values, so I think it's time to pack it up, move along.
> 
> For the record, I don't think this automatically makes her a sk*nk, a wh*re, a potential cheater, etc.  If she was practicing safe sex with her partners, who are we to judge what her "number" is?
> 
> Just decide whether or not it's a number you can live with. (Personally, I wouldn't even want to KNOW the number and I doubt the topic would have ever come up.)



Best advice and non-judgmental.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

2ntnuf said:


> She's horny. He's horny. I don't see the issue. Not everyone s/he slept with is compatible for a long-term relationship.


The issue that Fozzy is bringing up is the fact that many men take a stance when it comes to the # of partners issue that they want/wanted a partner who didn't have a disproportionate number to their own. For instance, my attitude is based around how someone views sex (act of love for me) I wanted my wife to have a similar mentality as my own. I've only had 4 partners in my life, my wife has had approx 10, but our attitude and approach was similar, she was in less LTR than I was so that's why her number was higher.

There are other guys who are just insecure. If you put a premium on your woman not being promiscuous...why are YOU being promiscuous? It's hypocritical. The OP is completely in his right to have standards...but those standards should start from within and THEN get projected onto any potential partners.


----------



## lenzi

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?


My count is about 25 and I wouldn't even know it if I didn't go to the trouble to make an Excel spread sheet.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

rep said:


> Not sure to answer your question
> Ex wife had 12
> Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
> Gf of 3 months had 4
> We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross


She's 43...do some math. Married 9 years....say sexually started at 17...that's 17 years of single living....If she had a new partner every 9 months...while being single....that's 23. Make two of those episodes 3 somes...that's 25 (or DOZENS). 

Sorry but at 43, a woman's number, who has been single for a while, is going to be high if she's a sexual person (assuming you want to be with someone who is sexual?)


----------



## waylan

2ntnuf said:


> Yes, she likes men. That doesn't mean she likes commitment. Something like a woman who was in longer term relationships seems like someone who is committed to one man and likes sex.
> 
> Numbers do not equate with ability. In my experience, they only equated to someone who had tried or done things that I never did. This is dependent upon the individual. Just like, I used to play basketball all the time. I was pretty good in the little circle of friends I had, but not when I left the area and played against others. I was not even in the same universe as an NBA player, but I enjoyed playing as often as I could. I played H O R S E, one on one, three on three, long and short, around the world, and a couple others I can't remember.


If you are trying to figure out if she likes commitment - isn't it more appropriate to ask how many long term relationships she has been in and what was her longest relationship?

Experience (numbers) leads to expertise. NBA players have practiced for thousands and thousands of hours to get to the level they are out. Of course natural ability comes into play as well. You will struggle on the court once you reach a certain level if you are 5'2. You will struggle in the bedroom if you a 1 inch "tool". Those are a given. 

Michael Jordan didn't make the varsity high school team his first try and I'm willing to bet that 99.9 of folks aren't very good the first time they do the deed.


----------



## waylan

The problems with numbers is they are so subjective. Say you set a number that you will only find a person acceptable if they have had less then 15 partners. Is there really a difference between a person that has had 14 versus 16:scratchhead:? If you are the 15th - have you just ruined that person?



Dad&Hubby said:


> The issue that Fozzy is bringing up is the fact that many men take a stance when it comes to the # of partners issue that they want/wanted a partner who didn't have a disproportionate number to their own. For instance, my attitude is based around how someone views sex (act of love for me) I wanted my wife to have a similar mentality as my own. I've only had 4 partners in my life, my wife has had approx 10, but our attitude and approach was similar, she was in less LTR than I was so that's why her number was higher.
> 
> There are other guys who are just insecure. If you put a premium on your woman not being promiscuous...why are YOU being promiscuous? It's hypocritical. The OP is completely in his right to have standards...but those standards should start from within and THEN get projected onto any potential partners.


----------



## 2ntnuf

waylan said:


> *If you are trying to figure out if she likes commitment - isn't it more appropriate to ask how many long term relationships she has been in and what was her longest relationship?*
> 
> Experience (numbers) leads to expertise. NBA players have practiced for thousands and thousands of hours to get to the level they are out. Of course natural ability comes into play as well. You will struggle on the court once you reach a certain level if you are 5'2. You will struggle in the bedroom if you a 1 inch "tool". Those are a given.
> 
> Michael Jordan didn't make the varsity high school team his first try and I'm willing to bet that 99.9 of folks aren't very good the first time they do the deed.


Absolutely.(for what is in bold) 


Experience only leads to expertise if you have the education and ability. I agree.


----------



## unbelievable

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?
> This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


Three possibilities come to mind.

1. Her number is ridiculously and disgustingly high.
2. Whatever the number is, she is afraid you will find it disgustingly high.
3. She isn't close enough to you yet to be discussing such things and she considers the information none of your business. You've been out three times?


----------



## Fozzy

:lol::rofl:


----------



## 2ntnuf

Dad&Hubby said:


> The issue that Fozzy is bringing up is the fact that many men take a stance when it comes to the # of partners issue that they want/wanted a partner who didn't have a disproportionate number to their own. For instance, my attitude is based around how someone views sex (act of love for me) I wanted my wife to have a similar mentality as my own. I've only had 4 partners in my life, my wife has had approx 10, but our attitude and approach was similar, she was in less LTR than I was so that's why her number was higher.
> 
> There are other guys who are just insecure. If you put a premium on your woman not being promiscuous...why are YOU being promiscuous? It's hypocritical. The OP is completely in his right to have standards...but those standards should start from within and THEN get projected onto any potential partners.


Huh? My comment you quoted, had nothing to do with Fozzy's comment. I was just giving a general opinion of my own. I don't even remember what he posted. 

I understand what you are saying in the second paragraph. I think I answered that in a couple of ways here in this thread. I think I pretty much stated and even liked a few posts that were similar to my thinking. It was a kind of, "live and let live", attitude. Each of us is different in what we want. I though ConanHub said it pretty well in one post. I even quoted it. Do you take issue with that? Maybe you aren't taking issue with anything I posted? Not sure to tell the truth. Onward.



> There are other guys who are just insecure. If you put a premium on your woman not being promiscuous...why are YOU being promiscuous? It's hypocritical. The OP is completely in his right to have standards...but those standards should start from within and THEN get projected onto any potential partners.


So, how can you tell if someone is insecure or would rather not sleep with a woman with high numbers? How can you tell if he made a mistake and slept with someone before asking her what kind of relationships she was in before and how long they were/how many? 

When did I say I was promiscuous? Not in this thread. I don't think I've ever written that. You may have read something into a post of mine. I've never been promiscuous. I have tried to be respectful of those with high numbers, within my posts here. 

I've only been in what I considered were potential relationships. The shortest one, whose time limit was placed there by the woman, was eight weeks. I broke up with her in six, since I realized at that point what she actually wanted and knew I could not give it to her. I then told her that and she cried, and I cried. We hugged and kissed. We went our ways. What a woman, by the way. Damn good woman. Don't know her numbers. Never asked. Fact of the matter is, don't think I asked any woman what her numbers were, not even second wife. Well, her, I did ask if she dated alot. Then I asked if they were long-term. She said there weren't that many and I wondered, but I had no proof and thought she was treating me well, as was discussed here. So, I didn't care. Oops. 

I did ask if there were many or something like that in just a general way, after I was confronted by some guys in public, she used to know, by surprise, too. Yeah, I asked if it was true, then told her I didn't want to know the details or anything. Just generally if it was true. That's the only time I've done that. Unless maybe I was an immature teen or something, but I can't remember back that far. 

I can't remember defending OP for what he did, however, I did not chastise him either, in the way the women did. I don't think. What I was trying to do, and Conan caught it, was to say with a few posts, what Conan said in that one. I am less straight-forward when I see a controversial subject. 

I actually agree with what you are trying to say. I guess you didn't get that. Check it out again. You'll see what I mean.

Anyway, I first thought you were, "coming at me bro". haha I'm going to leave my personal info up there for a little while. Then I'll take it down. Maybe. Who cares?


----------



## EleGirl

waylan said:


> If you are trying to figure out if she likes commitment - isn't it more appropriate to ask how many long term relationships she has been in and what was her longest relationship?
> 
> Experience (numbers) leads to expertise. NBA players have practiced for thousands and thousands of hours to get to the level they are out. Of course natural ability comes into play as well. You will struggle on the court once you reach a certain level if you are 5'2. You will struggle in the bedroom if you a 1 inch "tool". Those are a given.
> 
> Michael Jordan didn't make the varsity high school team his first try and I'm willing to bet that 99.9 of folks aren't very good the first time they do the deed.



Being married should lead to even more sexual experience. If a married couple has sex daily for 9 years. that's 3,285 times, if it's "just" 2 times a week for 9 years, that's 936 times. 

Or if it's like a lot of marriages we hear about here.. they might have had sex once in 9 years.

A woman who had sex with 100 men in 9 years might have only had sex 100 times.

The number of people someone has had sex with only tells us the number of people she/he had sex with. It does not tell us how experienced they are..

Having been married also does not tell us how experienced the person is.


----------



## EleGirl

waylan said:


> The problems with numbers is they are so subjective. Say you set a number that you will only find a person acceptable if they have had less then 15 partners. Is there really a difference between a person that has had 14 versus 16:scratchhead:? *If you are the 15th - have you just ruined that person*?


It depends on the manufacturer's warranty on that person(model). Perhaps they need to check her model and serial number to find out what the warranty is. :rofl:


----------



## EleGirl

Lila said:


> I was talking to my youngest sister just now and brought up OP's question. She's 30, unmarried, and recently back in the dating scene after ending her LTR. She's also bat sh!t crazy. Funny as heck, but nuts. (I can say that....she's my sister and I love her). She only gets away with the stuff she does because she's drop dead gorgeous. She told me that she's only had two guys, in 14 years of dating, who asked her this question.
> 
> The first one caught her off guard and it took a second for the question to register in her brain. She answered honestly, but the question didn't sit well with her even though her numbers were apparently acceptable to the guy. She finished her drink, picked up her purse, told the guy she had to make a quick phone call, texted him from outside that it wasn't going to work out, and took a cab home.
> 
> Now for the second one, she was much better prepared. When he asked her how many lovers she'd had, she took a moment to "reach for her inner Meryl Streep". Then she eagerly asked him "You first?". When he replied, she gave him the most shocked look she could muster, and kept saying "Really?? OMG, REALLY??" She then made her dramatic exit. She says the guy was soooo confused. She says he didn't know if she was upset because his number was too high or too low. I couldn't help but laugh. Poor guy.
> 
> I guess the moral of the story is know your audience......and be ready for anything, LMAO :rofl:


:rofl: Tell your sister that I'd love to buy her a drink..


----------



## SadSamIAm

How old is she? I am 50 and I am not sure about my number. I am pretty sure it is between 10 and 15. It has been 1 for the last 30 years.


----------



## ntamph

The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk

The higher a woman's number is before marriage the more likely it is that the marriage will fail.


----------



## ConanHub

EleGirl said:


> Being married should lead to even more sexual experience. If a married couple has sex daily for 9 years. that's 3,285 times, if it's "just" 2 times a week for 9 years, that's 936 times.
> 
> Or if it's like a lot of marriages we hear about here.. they might have had sex once in 9 years.
> 
> A woman who had sex with 100 men in 9 years might have only had sex 100 times.
> 
> The number of people someone has had sex with only tells us the number of people she/he had sex with. It does not tell us how experienced they are..
> 
> Having been married also does not tell us how experienced the person is.


Truth. I had high numbers? But after a few years with my wife was when I really started getting good at sex. After 23 years with the same woman, I might even have a PHD in sex!&#55357;&#56841;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

ntamph said:


> The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
> 
> The higher a woman's number is before marriage the more likely it is that the marriage will fail.


Interesting. Have to look into that. Might have a generality that is true. Probably people that never change or adapt their views on promiscuity and commitment. My wife and I had high numbers I guess but when we met we just wanted to make it work with us. So far so good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

ntamph said:


> The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
> 
> The higher a woman's number is before marriage the more likely it is that the marriage will fail.


I'd really want to see that actual study instead of a blog interpreting what someone else concluded about a third party's 1995 study. 

This second-hand conclusion, for example, screams of BS to me:



> The most salient finding from this analysis is that women whose intimate premarital relationships are limited to their husbands—either premarital sex alone or premarital cohabitation—do not experience an increased risk of divorce. *It is only women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship who have an elevated risk of marital disruption*.


And I'd like to know what impact the number of partners the husbands had on this divorce situation. 

That blog seems highly skewed to me.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
> 
> The higher a woman's number is before marriage the more likely it is that the marriage will fail.


That link it to older studies conducted before today's trends of over 2/3's of people living togerther before marriage. Society has changed a lot in the last 20 years.

New studies are finding something very different.

"In the last 50 years, the percentage of men and women who cohabit before marriage – “living in sin” as it was still called in the 1960s – has increased by almost 900 percent. Today 70 percent of women aged 30 to 34 have cohabited with a male partner, and two-thirds of new marriages take place between couples who have already lived together for an average of 31 months.

These trends are troubling to some because nearly a dozen studies from the 1970s into the early 2000s showed that men and women who lived together before marriage were far more likely to divorce than couples who moved directly from dating to marriage. In fact, on average, researchers found that couples who cohabited before marriage had a 33 percent higher chance of divorcing than couples who moved in together after the wedding ceremony. In light of those findings, some commentators have argued that reducing the stigma attached to living together outside marriage has been a mistake, leading many young couples to make decisions that put their future marriage at risk.

In the last two years, newer research has suggested that the risk associated with premarital cohabitation may be receding. Sociologists Wendy Manning and Jessica Cohen found that for marriages formed since the mid-1990s, living together before marriage did not raise the risk of divorce. In fact, for a minority of women with higher than average risks of divorce – women with a premarital birth, women raised in single or stepparent families, or women who had had more than the median number of sex partners – living together while engaged was actually more protective against divorce than moving directly into marriage.

My new research, forthcoming in April in the Journal of Marriage and Family, suggests studies have consistently overstated the risk of premarital cohabitation, and continue to do so even for marriages formed since the mid-1990s. This is because they have been comparing couples by their age at marriage rather than by their age when they moved in together. On average, cohabitors move in together and start trying to “act married” at a younger age than couples who marry directly. My study finds that when couples are compared by the age at which they move in together and start taking on the roles associated with marriage, there is no difference in divorce rates between couples that lived together before marriage and those that didn’t."

https://contemporaryfamilies.org/cohabitation-divorce-brief-report/


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## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
> 
> The higher a woman's number is before marriage the more likely it is that the marriage will fail.


An interesting thing is that these sorts of studies are done exclusively on women. Why not look at the impact of a man having high numbers? I'll be it would be about the same.

The higher a person's number of sex partners, the more likely that they are more liberal about marriage. They know that they have options and don't need to stay in a bad marriage. So they are more likely to end the marriage.


----------



## EleGirl

tascam said:


> I forget about this forum until today. Second, everything I say about women is true. Many, not all women in the USA have become scandalous, cheat as much or more than men, and in most cases are cold and heartless. They secretly hate men and want to make us all pay. Most claim to be independent and still expect the man to pay for everything. That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


I see that you know what all or most women think. That's hilarious... :rofl:


----------



## GusPolinski

Jellybeans said:


> I love that you said this.


:smthumbup:


----------



## Cletus

tascam said:


> that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


Fortunately for you, there's little risk.


----------



## lifeistooshort

tascam said:


> I forget about this forum until today. Second, everything I say about women is true. Many, not all women in the USA have become scandalous, cheat as much or more than men, and in most cases are cold and heartless. They secretly hate men and want to make us all pay. Most claim to be independent and still expect the man to pay for everything. That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


Gotta love the inherent implication that American women would be interested, so I'll speak for them and say that it's no great loss.


----------



## ConanHub

tascam said:


> I forget about this forum until today. Second, everything I say about women is true. Many, not all women in the USA have become scandalous, cheat as much or more than men, and in most cases are cold and heartless. They secretly hate men and want to make us all pay. Most claim to be independent and still expect the man to pay for everything. That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


Dude! I can't help it. You seriously crack me up!:lol::rofl:


----------



## GusPolinski

tascam said:


> I forget about this forum until today. Second, everything I say about women is true. Many, not all women in the USA have become scandalous, cheat as much or more than men, and in most cases are cold and heartless. They secretly hate men and want to make us all pay. Most claim to be independent and still expect the man to pay for everything. That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


You should stick around.


----------



## soccermom2three

tascam said:


> That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


Thank god!

ETA: Sorry rest of the world


----------



## ConanHub

Why? Why does he bring such a grin to my face? Must be the devil inside.


----------



## lenzi

GusPolinski said:


> You should stick around.


That is not going to happen.


----------



## Fozzy

tascam said:


> I forget about this forum until today. Second, everything I say about women is true. Many, not all women in the USA have become scandalous, cheat as much or more than men, and in most cases are cold and heartless. They secretly hate men and want to make us all pay. Most claim to be independent and still expect the man to pay for everything. That's what's out there and that's why I would NEVER marry an American woman


Teach us, o sage.


----------



## happy as a clam

rep said:


> Guess it's best to just text and ask and get it over with. If it's high,, I need too move on.
> It's a shame bc I I really do like her


:wtf: 

If you *texted* me that question, I would tell you to go jump off a bridge and then you'd never have to worry about the number again, ummm, because you would likely never see me again. IMHO, that's an immature, avoidant way to find out the info you are seeking.

At least have the decency to have an in-person conversation before you dump her over her HONESTY.

Too bad. You say she's "the best"...


----------



## happy as a clam

rep said:


> Not sure to answer your question
> Ex wife had 12
> Gf of 3 yesrs had 7
> Gf of 3 months had 4
> We are all the same age. I would think that a respectable person can answer the damn question. *I do not want to be with someone that has had sex with dozens of men,, it's just gross*


But the *dozen* women you had is NOT gross?

Many people might think YOUR being with 12 different people is a lot, and kind of gross.

Anyway, why in the world are you asking all these people how many past lovers they had?

If I were being asked by you on the second date (especially AFTER sleeping together) I would tell you it's really none of your d*mn business.

She will be better off without you, in my opinion. If you find out she's had 12 partners (your magic number) or less, will she suddenly be redeemed in your eyes? What's if it's 13? Or 20? What's the cutoff number?

After reading through your TWENTY-FOUR other threads, I think you could probably benefit from counseling. Not to deal with sexual hangups, but to learn how to be less judgmental. Your values are one thing, but your apparent condescension is another.

Sheesh...


----------



## pidge70

happy as a clam said:


> But the *dozen* women you had is NOT gross?
> 
> Many people might think YOUR being with 12 different people is a lot, and kind of gross.
> 
> Anyway, why in the world are you asking all these people how many past lovers they had?
> 
> If I were being asked by you on the second date (especially AFTER sleeping together) I would tell you it's really none of your d*mn business.
> 
> She will be better off without you, in my opinion. If you find out she's had 12 partners (your magic number) or less, will she suddenly be redeemed in your eyes? What's if it's 13? Or 20? What's the cutoff number?
> 
> After reading through your TWENTY-FOUR other threads, I think you could probably benefit from counseling. Not to deal with sexual hangups, but to learn how to be less judgmental. Your values are one thing, but your apparent condescension is another.
> 
> Sheesh...


:allhail:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SpinDaddy

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?
> This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


Now hold on Rep, just how old is this gal? I mean in all honesty I’d have to sit down and think about it myself. But then again, in actuarial terms I’m on the downside of the bell curve in terms of life expectancy so it may be alzheimers.


----------



## EleGirl

SpinDaddy said:


> Now hold on Rep, just how old is this gal? I mean in all honesty I’d have to sit down and think about it myself. But then again, in actuarial terms I’m on the downside of the bell curve in terms of life expectancy so it may be alzheimers.


The "girl" is 42.


----------



## SpinDaddy

EleGirl said:


> The "girl" is 42.


For the love of Pete Rep., this is the gal that you bought the fancy Porsche motorcar to impress? 

The car that you are afraid your ex-wife and estranged daughter are going to hit the roof about re. your ability/willingness to pay support and alimony about?

Dude, you need to get your head straight because you are off in the weeds on so many accounts in your life right now.

No offense my Brother, I say this is all sincerity . . . . man-to-man. Life is too short and the road you are barreling down will leave you bitter and all alone in a dozen years.

- Spin


----------



## Jasel

If you think this is something you can't get past you need to end the relationship. If you do like her as much as you say and want the relationship to continue I'd recommend you drop the matter of how many partners she's had. Especially seeing how it didn't seem to bother you until after you already slept with her on the 2nd date.


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## Divinely Favored

Just as 2ntnuf put it.

I did ask if there were many or something like that in just a general way, after I was confronted by some guys in public, she used to know, by surprise, too. Yeah, I asked if it was true, then told her I didn't want to know the details or anything. Just generally if it was true. That's the only time I've done that. 

That used to be my fear....if I ever had some guy confront me with the fact he had f***end my wife in the past or how my wife liked this or that....I would be the only one to walk away from the encounter. 

If her count was high enough I could deal with it but did not like it we would have to move away...I would not want the above to happen or for her to constantly be crossing paths with old f***buddies and those memories being kept alive. 2nd to me a higher count would lead me to believe to her sex is only that and not an emotional action. I'm one of those who sex means more than just sex. 

I tried to find the one...kind of why I did not have sex till I was 22. Fell for 34 yrs old divorce at 23 who I practically lived with for 4 mo. before I caught her with another guy. I should have known her values when she tried to "loan" me to her 35 yrs old best friend for a night. I should have known where o stood when the long brunette came into the room in a black teddy and tried to get me to stay in her room for the night and my gf was im agreement. 

I was always looking for relationship and something would rear its head with the girl that I could not get past. I can see OPs deal that he got cozy with an easy girl and he is thinking maybe commitment....but questioning if she is commitment material..how easy was she with others....how easy would she be to cheat... To me if partner count was high..
Moving away from the area would be a requirement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

Divinely Favored said:


> Just as 2ntnuf put it.
> 
> I did ask if there were many or something like that in just a general way, after I was confronted by some guys in public, she used to know, by surprise, too. Yeah, I asked if it was true, then told her I didn't want to know the details or anything. Just generally if it was true. That's the only time I've done that.
> 
> That used to be my fear....if I ever had some guy confront me with the fact he had f***end my wife in the past or how my wife liked this or that....I would be the only one to walk away from the encounter.
> 
> If her count was high enough I could deal with it but did not like it we would have to move away...I would not want the above to happen or for her to constantly be crossing paths with old f***buddies and those memories being kept alive. 2nd to me a higher count would lead me to believe to her sex is only that and not an emotional action. I'm one of those who sex means more than just sex.
> 
> I tried to find the one...kind of why I did not have sex till I was 22. Fell for 34 yrs old divorce at 23 who I practically lived with for 4 mo. before I caught her with another guy. I should have known her values when she tried to "loan" me to her 35 yrs old best friend for a night. I should have known where o stood when the long brunette came into the room in a black teddy and tried to get me to stay in her room for the night and my gf was im agreement.
> 
> I was always looking for relationship and something would rear its head with the girl that I could not get past. I can see OPs deal that he got cozy with an easy girl and he is thinking maybe commitment....but questioning if she is commitment material..how easy was she with others....how easy would she be to cheat... To me if partner count was high..
> Moving away from the area would be a requirement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, that's the direction I was going with that. I didn't want to offend anyone. I don't know if or believe that everyone is like that man or woman. It's just concerning. 

It was in a bar and the locals who lived in the area and grew up there, knew her. I figured there would be men who knew her. I mean, come on, I'm not a complete idiot. I just know that when I guy I knew before I knew her and thought of as a friend, tells me in front of her, that if he knew I was marrying her, he would have told me not to, it's shocking. I didn't know what tho say. I wanted to defend her reputation, but there were one or two others who agreed with him, who also grew up in the area and knew her years before I did. They didn't tell me what she did. They just told me in general, she was...how do I put this delicately...was friendly with many of the guys in high school and broke a lot of hearts. They said it was why she dropped out of high school. 

I was concerned that she maybe had been abused in high school by the bully guys and so I didn't come on strong and ask her all kinds of questions. I just wanted to know enough to be able to make some decision about continuing the marriage, moving away from the area, forgiveness, whether those guys were just *******s and jerking my chain and so how to handle them, or just what was going on. She didn't give me much to work with. 

She pretty much told me it was true. Now, that was in the past, and I told her that, but because it was brough into the present, I needed to know if we should move or whatever. She said she didn't think so, and I told her I didn't want to run into a bunch of men she was with who were going to think they could take advantage of her or that I didn't care about her and would try something because, you know how these guys think. They figure she isn't worth much and neither am I, if I'm with her. They would not respect me thinking I didn't respect myself and they would just go for it, not giving a crap about our marriage. They may know how she is and that she would cheat, as long as I knew nothing. I don't know. These are all the thoughts that went through my mind. 

Obviously, I didn't know how to handle it. I told her that in so many words. I think I said, I don't know if I can handle this. She said, there's nothing to handle. Well, it is what happened. She had lots of guys hitting on her. Word spread. She talked with men she used to know. Now, that's fine, but it was more than talk. The one guy's mother and her used to talk about her son right in front of me and I told her that was disrespectful to talk about his personal life and how he was doing and who he was seeing in front of me. At least, I thought so. 

There was something about the conversations that seemed to be suggesting my wife leave me for him. I saw this guy one day in 2011 when I was out with a friend who knew I was hurting. This guy's eyes went wide when he saw me and he left the area. I was so messed up at the time, I did not even put two and two together. I was so hurt by this divorce....

Don't know if this makes any sense at all. I had a train of thought and then lost it. Can't remember my point. I'm sorry. I guess it's a bit of ptsd still. 

Please know that I'm not lumping all women or men in the same category. I can't. I don't have that kind of experience or knowledge. I don't know about that study. I know statistics can be skewed to look like whatever is intended. I would think that a person who has been with lots of partners doesn't hold the same thoughts about sexuality as someone like me who has only had 4 and those were in longer or long-term relationships. I'm 52, so, that tells you I don't sleep around. It may also tell you I don't like sex. I do, but I do have some hangups surrounding sex and who it's with. I've had opportunities as a teen which I turned down. The women were a bit older, but decent looking. I just could not expose myself to them without knowing them. I'm not a ons type of guy. I'm too embarrassed. So, it's not the women as much as it's me.


----------



## Divinely Favored

A lot of the girls of today are just loose byy stamdards. Sex and hookups are no different than smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer. The sexual immorality is destroying the US. It is starting to be like Sodom and Gomorrah and we are going to pay the price for it too. God help us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## devotion

norajane said:


> I agree with you. It just seems that a guy who has sex on the second date is not conveying the message with his own behavior that numbers matter, especially when they don't even ask until after they've had sex. That sounds like only her numbers matter even though he's being just as casual about sex. I think that's an ugly mindset: it's ok for me to have sex on the second date, but if you do it, it's gross.


So I respectfully disagree with that reasoning. It may seem a bit hypocritical (and it is true your OWN number just went up once by having sex early) but let's say your number is very low, and it goes up one with the person you met on a second date. It then turns out her number is also low, acceptable to you. Great. 

If the number is too 'high' (whatever that is) then you either adjust your expectations or you decide to be a hypocrite. It is definitely a little harder to defend those who want to sleep around with all women but then only want virgin women, but it happens. 

I guess in the end my thought is being in a relationship is a choice for whatever reason. I do not believe in **** (or virgin) shaming, but considering that as important is just as valid as any other reason, like eating peas individually might disqualify someone (a Seinfeld moment)


----------



## Revamped

Divinely Favored said:


> A lot of the girls of today are just loose byy stamdards. Sex and hookups are no different than smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer. The sexual immorality is destroying the US. It is starting to be like Sodom and Gomorrah and we are going to pay the price for it too. God help us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This kinda got my blood pressure moving...

And just WHO are these ladies having sex and hooking up with?

That's right, MEN. But you don't call THEM out as being "loose".


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Girl doesn't know how many lovers?*



ConanHub said:


> It's not about liking sex, it's about liking it with a gazillion people! There is a difference.
> 
> It also does not follow gender but I do see a higher number of men.
> 
> Preferences are not immature. If I had gone all the way with a man my wife would actually be someone else's right now. It might have been my past but it was her preference. See?&#55357;&#56842;
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Didn't you have a story that you were close to going all the way?


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## jaquen

rep said:


> I always thought females def kept count?


People would find all manner of issues a lot less head scratching if they stop thinking in universal terms.

Why would you assume ALL females do anything the same?


----------



## rep

I know life isn't easy or fair for genders/race, etc...
Guy has high numbers, he's a stud,, women is a ****. Just life I guess. 
Why do women get in bars free??
Why are men expected to pay the bill??
Don't know why or how all this started.
I do know for me and some men I talk with,,, to fall in love (men),, we seem to need to place a women in white,, sound familiar??
What's the obvious difference between Angelina Jolie and Jen Anniston??
Pretty obvious there!!!!
Most men IMO want to marry or fall in love with a Jen Anniston,, not a Angelina Jolie,,, we want some sort of sexual purity.
It's just life. It's always been that way and it always will. 
If a women wants to spread her legs for a ton of men,,, good luck finding a good man to love you PERIOD!!


----------



## Revamped

Rep,

Now that you are divorced, are you looking to get married again?


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## TiggyBlue

Sounds like you need to drop this woman and find a woman who agrees with you.
Good luck


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## rep

Yes I love being married


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

So then why do so many men complain when a woman wants to marry Mr. Nice guy who has a good job, does the dishes and treats her right but is really attracted to Mr. Bad boy? If they are doing the same thing, it's only fair. 

But the definition of a good man is different for everyone. A good man for me wouldn't have the thought that " If a women wants to spread her legs for a ton of men,,, good luck finding a good man to love you PERIOD!!" so I'm good. I don't want that guy anyway. 

I want the good man who knows that women are sexual beings. Is confident enough in himself not to compare or worry about previous partners, to not assume a woman is loose or moral-less if she has slept with many people. Who don't buy into the "women are sl*ts, men are players" BS. 

But do make your opinion known right away so that women can decide if you are a good man for them before sleeping with you or wasting time on dates that will go nowhere.


----------



## Revamped

rep said:


> Yes I love being married


So I'd have to presume then, when you go out on these dates, you really are assessing a woman for a long term potential mate. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But when you have sex with them on a second date, you decide that they aren't as "pure" as you'd like them to be and drop them.

It's like you are purposely pushing them away, by pursuing a sexual relationship first. I think if marriage is your optimal goal, you'd exercise some self control in that area.

JMHO.


----------



## 2ntnuf

One thing I've learned from this site rep, is this. Both women and men have stereotypes about the opposite sex. Both women and men assume a whole bunch of stuff based on what they believe about themselves and society. Both men and women don't Ask before concluding things. That's where the problem lies, in my humble opinion.


----------



## rep

As for the sleeping with on the 2nd date,,, we spoke on the phone for weeks,, and hit it off. I suppose that bc she is educated, earns good money, dresses well,,, I didn't think she would have had loose sexual morals. I was surprised!!!
I get plenty of girls in there 20's,, very good looking wanting FWB. I'm not interested. Yes,, I should have asked before sex and I'm sorry. After she told me,, she is still confused as to why the amount of sex partners matters so I'm sure it won't work. I feel sex is special and not meant to be abused. Lesson learned.
I like the girl next door,, June Clever out if bed and good in bed but a women and man can masterbated until the real deal comes along,, god knows I've shown restraint. I've asked many men and most care if the women they want to marry had a vagina like a rotating door.


----------



## Revamped

You are a very confusing person...

If you feel that sex is sacred, why did YOU have sex on the second date? Kinda contradictory, don't Ya think? You are holding all the cards but changing the rules as you see fit so no woman will ever be able to win your heart.

And calling attention to "her loose morals" because she slept with you on the second date, maybe she felt it didn't seem to her like that was a second date. From all the conversations she had with you prior to actually meeting, she felt comfortable enough with you to share intimacy.


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## rep

Exactly,, I also am not holding the sex on second date against anyone. 
Your not listening. I did not expect her sex morals to be loose based on our conversation a couple days after. 
She even openly admitted to having 2 threesomes!!!!
I guess you can't tell a book by its cover.
I find today's morals are groin down the tubes!!!!!!


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## soccermom2three

rep said:


> I find today's morals are groin down the tubes!!!!!!



Hahaha!


----------



## Revamped

Damn you, Autocorrect!

Some funny stuff right there!


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## lenzi

rep said:


> Exactly,, I also am not holding the sex on second date against anyone.
> Your not listening. I did not expect her sex morals to be loose based on our conversation a couple days after.
> She even openly admitted to having 2 threesomes!!!!
> I guess you can't tell a book by its cover.
> I find today's morals are groin down the tubes!!!!!!


What does having a lot of sex have to do with morals?


----------



## 2ntnuf

rep, do you really believe, I mean believe that sex is sacred, in the sense that it is holy and saintly, on it's own? Do you believe that it is something to be cherished, on it's own? 

Or, do you believe that it is the holding, cuddling, kissing, respect in the other parts of life together and the communication on a deeper level than acquaintances have, that are the love in a relationship? And when you get those, you want the sex from that one woman in a most loving, enjoyable, sometimes naughty way, and it then becomes part of the deeper love you feel for her, cementing the bonds between you, created by the other nonsexual communication, and therefore becomes the icing on the cake of love, which then becomes a more complete experience?

Maybe you believe something else? I would like to read your thoughts.


----------



## 2ntnuf

mor·al
ˈmôrəl/Submit
noun
plural noun: morals
1.
a lesson, especially one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has"
synonyms:	lesson, message, meaning, significance, signification, import, point, teaching
"the moral of the story"
2.
a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.
"the corruption of public morals"
synonyms:	moral code, code of ethics, (moral) values, principles, standards, (sense of) morality, scruples
"he has no morals"

Seems like everything we do might be based on morals of our own? Maybe I am wrong?


----------



## SpinDaddy

rep said:


> Exactly,, I also am not holding the sex on second date against anyone.
> Your not listening. I did not expect her sex morals to be loose based on our conversation a couple days after.
> She even openly admitted to having 2 threesomes!!!!
> I guess you can't tell a book by its cover.
> I find today's morals are groin down the tubes!!!!!!


ROTFLMAO – OK so Rep. by your own account sex on the second date is still within the parameters of a June Cleaver ideal.

You seem to be a numbers man, I’m taking it you’re a Registered Representative no? So think about this . . . .

The 43 year old woman you’re talking about. Let’s say she theoretically started dating at age 15. And let’s be pragmatic, she sounds desirable so meeting and dating 4 new men each year is not out of the question. That gives her 3-months to meet a new man, get to know him, go out on a second date and sleep with him. And you’re good with that!

So by my accounts – 4 second dates a year for 33 years and we’re talking maybe a 112 people she’s had sex with over the years and that’s June Clever in your book!

And I’ll give her the two threesomes because, I don’t know, do women count or were they strictly MMF? But anyways, at 112 and I started her off at the arbitrary age of 15, there has to be some margin for error!

Crazy huh?

I’ll tell ya’ Rep., the more you post the more I empathize with your ex-wife and I don’t even know her!


----------



## lenzi

Please refer to the graph below:










This represents the quality of the sex, especially BJs- as it relates to the number of sex partners.

That's what matters to me.


----------



## Revamped

rep said:


> I did not expect her sex morals to be loose based on our conversation a couple days after. She even openly admitted to having 2 threesomes!!!!!


So for you, kink sex goes against your sense of moral dignity. But many people feel 3somes are not a sexual deviancy, it's more of an enhancement of a sexual experience. I personally have not embibed in such a sexual pleasure as that but I don't feel it's wrong in any way.

And I wouldn't throw away a perfectly good person over experiences they had in their past...


----------



## 2ntnuf

rep, did you sort of take the online correspondence to be like getting to know her in real life? Did you then allow yourself to have feelings for a faceless or near faceless personality? So, then, if I read you right, you believed what you read and thought it was okay, then, to have sex with her because with this thinking, it would be withing your boundaries? Seems to me, that's the only way you could meet your goals and do this in two dates. In that sense, you don't seem like a numbers guy, you just seem like a guy who started a thread where you got jumped on because others see the word numbers and start to stereotype you. What seems to be occurring is that you are actually living up to your boundaries, you just forgot to, were vulnerable and overlooked or justified your thinking that you didn't need to, ask her about this most important boundary in your life. Then, you got confused because you believed what you concluded in your own mind, without ever asking, and found out she wasn't in real life a match for the woman you conceived in your imagination, caused by the correspondence and two dates?


----------



## lenzi

GusPolinski said:


> You [tascam]should stick around.
> 
> 
> lenzi said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not going to happen.
Click to expand...

I hate being right all the time.

For a good example of trolling, see the remaining posts of the now banned member in question.


----------



## rep

I think at this point,, it's bashing.
I have spoken to enough men that agree that they don't want a women that has had a ton of partners. Common sense really regardless of your math. 
WhT female here would be so proud to tell there father that they've had 20 men have had threesomes. 
This is fairly ridiculous to suggest that a women who is promiscuous is more desirable than a women with self dignity and control. So some of you like to debate regardless of what we are talking about. 
Thank you for those that genuinely see my conundrum and care to help


----------



## lenzi

rep said:


> This is fairly ridiculous to suggest that a women who is promiscuous is more desirable than a women with self dignity and control.


You're suggesting that a woman who has had many sex partners lacks self dignity and control.

Nice.


----------



## MysticTeenager

Kinda agree with Rep.


----------



## Kylie84

I don't even understand why this is still being discussed.
Every single person is going to have a different opinion on this subject, and the only opinion that matters in this case is the OP's.
Clearly Rep you screwed this one up (pun intended) as you should have asked this obviously very important (to you) question PRIOR to having sex with her. 
Cut your losses and move on.
Just keep in mind next time you are interviewing your potential next wife to ask that question before sticking it in, so you can judge her accordingly.
Good luck finding a woman your own age who has a very low number, I suggest seeking someone recently divorced after over 20 years of marriage who was faithful the whole time and was a virgin when they dated their ex.


----------



## EleGirl

Divinely Favored said:


> A lot of the girls of today are just loose byy stamdards. Sex and hookups are no different than smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer. The sexual immorality is destroying the US. It is starting to be like Sodom and Gomorrah and we are going to pay the price for it too. God help us.


A lot of men are like this as well... it's been far more common for men to have loose standards. Interesting that suddenly it's horrible now only because some women (not all) sleep around.

In the past, when men are cheating like it was their privilege and single men always had hookups.. who exactly were they having sex with? :scratchhead:


----------



## ConanHub

farsidejunky said:


> Didn't you have a story that you were close to going all the way?


I was a very wild man in my youth.


----------



## ConanHub

rep said:


> I know life isn't easy or fair for genders/race, etc...
> Guy has high numbers, he's a stud,, women is a ****. Just life I guess.
> Why do women get in bars free??
> Why are men expected to pay the bill??
> Don't know why or how all this started.
> I do know for me and some men I talk with,,, to fall in love (men),, we seem to need to place a women in white,, sound familiar??
> What's the obvious difference between Angelina Jolie and Jen Anniston??
> Pretty obvious there!!!!
> Most men IMO want to marry or fall in love with a Jen Anniston,, not a Angelina Jolie,,, we want some sort of sexual purity.
> It's just life. It's always been that way and it always will.
> If a women wants to spread her legs for a ton of men,,, good luck finding a good man to love you PERIOD!!


Jennifer Anniston in white?:rofl:


----------



## Divinely Favored

Revamped said:


> This kinda got my blood pressure moving...
> 
> And just WHO are these ladies having sex and hooking up with?
> 
> That's right, MEN. But you don't call THEM out as being "loose".


Their called ***** mongers...I believe this is the term my momma used to call them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

rep said:


> As for the sleeping with on the 2nd date,,, we spoke on the phone for weeks,, and hit it off. I suppose that bc she is educated, earns good money, dresses well,,, I didn't think she would have had loose sexual morals. I was surprised!!!
> I get plenty of girls in there 20's,, very good looking wanting FWB. I'm not interested. Yes,, I should have asked before sex and I'm sorry. After she told me,, she is still confused as to why the amount of sex partners matters so I'm sure it won't work. I feel sex is special and not meant to be abused. Lesson learned.
> I like the girl next door,, June Clever out if bed and good in bed but a women and man can masterbated until the real deal comes along,, god knows I've shown restraint. I've asked many men and most care if the women they want to marry had a vagina like a rotating door.


She honestly sounds like a great woman. What is your opinion about people who totally commit and are 100% loyal? How about people who change their behavior?

My wife may have fit your description before I met her but she is 100% loyal and a wonderful mate with me.

Just out of curiosity, how confident are you? How do you think you appear to women?


----------



## norajane

> What's the obvious difference between Angelina Jolie and Jen Anniston??
> Pretty obvious there!!!!
> Most men IMO want to marry or fall in love with a Jen Anniston,, not a Angelina Jolie,,, we want some sort of sexual purity.
> It's just life. It's always been that way and it always will.


This example is hilarious to me. Brad divorced Jen FOR Angelina Jolie. Angelina and Brad are still going strong as a married couple. Jen still isn't married after her divorce. 

So how does that fit with what you are saying about these women?

And do you consider Jen impure now, since she's had multiple relationships after her divorce? Do you consider Angelina a bad risk since she and Brad seem happily married despite your opinion that she was a ho before?

I'm just asking you to THINK about what you really think. Because you are a mass of contradictions and hypocrisy and assumptions.


----------



## EleGirl

rep said:


> I know life isn't easy or fair for genders/race, etc...
> 
> Guy has high numbers, he's a stud,, women is a ****. Just life I guess.


Nope, not just life. It’s a learned attitude. It can be unlearned.


rep said:


> Why do women get in bars free??


Women get into some (not all) bars for free for two reasons: 1) Women used to not be able to earn anywhere near what men earn, so they did not have the money to spend on bar cover charges. 2) Owners want lots of patrons at their bars. Men are more likely to frequent bars that are frequented by a large number of women. So some bars let women in free to attract more patrons.


rep said:


> Why are men expected to pay the bill??


It used to be the norm for married women to be SAHM/W.. so their husbands paid.

Men used to be expected to pay the bill because women could not earn as much as men. And most women could not work because it was discouraged and there were fewer jobs that would hire women. Today it’s much more likely for women to go Dutch or for a dating couple to take turns paying. Society has changed in case you did not notice.


rep said:


> Don't know why or how all this started.


Really? Now you do. :scratchhead:


rep said:


> I do know for me and some men I talk with,,, to fall in love (men),, we seem to need to place a women in white,, sound familiar??


Well that’s your hangup. If you have this hangup, don’t have sex with a woman and then discard her like she’s trash after you use her. That’s a horrible way to treat any human.


rep said:


> What's the obvious difference between Angelina Jolie and Jen Anniston??
> Pretty obvious there!!!!


Not obvious at all. What do you think it the difference is?
And what does it matter to you? You will never get the chance to sleep with either of them.


rep said:


> Most men IMO want to marry or fall in love with a Jen Anniston,, not a Angelina Jolie,,, we want some sort of sexual purity.


But you don’t offer sexual offer sexual purity yourself. 
You can have whatever standards you want. But slvt shaming, coming from a guy who sleeps around is hypocritical.


rep said:


> It's just life. It's always been that way and it always will.


Not it’s not just life. It’s your choice to hang on to whatever ‘standards’ you have.


rep said:


> If a women wants to spread her legs for a ton of men,,, good luck finding a good man to love you PERIOD!!


But you don't mind jumping into a strange pair of legs do you? You are just fine with using women. Men who use women and then judge her for doing exactly what they are doing... .good luck finding a good woman to love you... PERIOD!!!


----------



## EleGirl

TiggyBlue said:


> Sounds like you need to drop this woman and find a woman who agrees with you.
> Good luck


:iagree:


----------



## Jellybeans

rep said:


> A*s for the sleeping with on the 2nd date*,,, we spoke on the phone for weeks,, and hit it off. I suppose that bc she is educated, earns good money, dresses well,,, I didn't think she would have had loose sexual morals. I was surprised!!!
> 
> After she told me,, she is still confused as to why the amount of sex partners matters so I'm sure it won't work. *I feel sex is special and not meant to be abused.* Lesson learned.
> I like the girl next door,, June Clever out if bed and good in bed but a women and man can masterbated until the real deal comes along,, *god knows I've shown restraint. *I've asked many men and most care if the women they want to marry had a vagina like a rotating door.


So wait... you slept with her on the second date and then say you think sex is something that's "special?"

That is a pretty ironic statement to make when you had no qualms about sleeping with her vagina that's like a "rotating door" on your second outing. So people could just as easily say you have a d!ck like a "rotating door." 



rep said:


> I find today's morals are *groin* down the tubes!!!!!!


Funny Freudian slip.

I don't know whether to post this smiley  or this one :rofl:

But perhaps this one is most appropriate: :scratchhead:


----------



## Revamped

rep said:


> I think at this point,, it's bashing.
> I have spoken to enough men that agree that they don't want a women that has had a ton of partners. Common sense really regardless of your math.
> WhT female here would be so proud to tell there father that they've had 20 men have had threesomes.
> This is fairly ridiculous to suggest that a women who is promiscuous is more desirable than a women with self dignity and control. So some of you like to debate regardless of what we are talking about.
> Thank you for those that genuinely see my conundrum and care to help


But you're not looking at the logistics though. Having sex with 25 men in a 30 year period could mean each relationship lasted a year or longer. But you call that promiscuous...

And sorry, who discusses their sex life with their FATHER? Ew.


----------



## Divinely Favored

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men are like this as well... it's been far more common for men to have loose standards. Interesting that suddenly it's horrible now only because some women (not all) sleep around.
> 
> In the past, when men are cheating like it was their privilege and single men always had hookups.. who exactly were they having sex with? :scratchhead:


Yeah. The reason I spoke about women is because OPs conundrum Is about a female. I was a good guy who was over looked by the girls wanting to get with the bad boy jock wh*re monger guys. After they have been used and abused then they start looking for the nice guy. I'm like "Ya didn't want me when I though you were respectable...I damn sure don't want you now!" 

I had one happen that way...i kinda liked a girl that we were friends with. She had a baby and i told the girl exactly how the guy(my HS BF was A PLAYER) was gonna do her. I told her she could date me or him. She chose him, he hit it and exited stage right...then she comes to me wanting to go out! I declined. I would not touch any woman he has been with! 

My views are slanted against women because I was the nice guy that was mistreated 

by them....The parents all loved me. That's the death nell in a relationship for teens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

rep said:


> I think at this point,, it's bashing.
> I have spoken to enough men that agree that they don't want a women that has had a ton of partners. Common sense really regardless of your math.
> WhT female here would be so proud to tell there father that they've had 20 men have had threesomes.
> This is fairly ridiculous to suggest that a women who is promiscuous is more desirable than a women with self dignity and control. So some of you like to debate regardless of what we are talking about.
> Thank you for those that genuinely see my conundrum and care to help


While I believe promiscuity is not a trait to boast on, there are a lot of hurting people in this world that have seen their fair share of hell.

I do know some hopelessly promiscuous people but I know many more who were simply lost and hurting and alone. Not everyone starts or ends as strong as they would like. My wife and I and many of the girls I knew growing up did not have a really great shot at life. Not a lot of support from homes as children and even worse when we got out in the big bad world.

We do live in a big bad world rep. If everything was a little rosier and nicer out there, maybe it would be easier to be strong from the start.

I started strong on sexual restraint and was worn down by the environment I found myself in. I saw many young women, who just wanted to be treated good by someone, trust the wrong people time and again until they became bitter and gave up hope.

Some, like me, made it out the other side, found someone they could finally trust and made a good life with kids and the whole nine yards.

Your preferences are yours but we live in a crappy world. Not everyone comes out squeaky clean.

My preference is that when I become involved with a woman, it is important to me where she is now.

Will she commit to me? Is she faithful? Is she responsible?
Does she take us seriously?

I have had one marriage. I got it right the first time. Maybe I was looking for the right things?

My wife was not honored or respected or loved before she met me.

When I offered what she had never before received, she clung to me like life.

She had two previous marriages, was a single mom and had a promiscuous history.

She is now a lady that younger women look up to, a wonderfully faithful wife and a true joy to my mother and extended family.

Love transforms. Whatever your fate, whatever number or criteria you apply, I hope you are someone who can love and be loved. Nothing else really works honestly.


----------



## SpinDaddy

rep said:


> I think at this point,, it's bashing.
> I have spoken to enough men that agree that they don't want a women that has had a ton of partners. Common sense really regardless of your math.
> WhT female here would be so proud to tell there father that they've had 20 men have had threesomes.
> This is fairly ridiculous to suggest that a women who is promiscuous is more desirable than a women with self dignity and control. So some of you like to debate regardless of what we are talking about.
> Thank you for those that genuinely see my conundrum and care to help


Rep. my Brother I don’t think it’s so much bashing as it is you don’t want to hear what you’re being told.

Clearly, and I’ve thrown you some numbers to demonstrate it, you are holding up potential partners to a standard of review that you yourself are not willing to abide by.

And if her “count”, is indeed important to you, you didn’t conduct sufficient due diligence before you bedded this woman.

In some ways, I’d say you’d be better off with a 20-year-old co-ed but I’m pretty certain you’d be hem-hawing that she was a gold digger.

Myself, I’ve always disrespected somewhat, my middle-aged male colleagues that have hooked-up with the 20-year old trophy wife. But if you’re looking for a middle-aged, financially independent, accomplished, educated, professional single woman - you need to expect some baggage. 

I’d seriously be more concerned about a 43-year-old virgin – just sayin’

That said, I do appreciate where you are, because I see it every day in my firm with a number of my contemporaries and seniors.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Here's a hand grenade for ya, since rep is done. 

I was just thinking this crazy thought. If sex is not that big of a deal and you have higher numbers than a spouse/SO, and they are a good match for you and compatible in other ways except numbers, would you be willing to let them bring their numbers up? I'm thinking, the sex with others they don't love wouldn't mean that much. They love you, you love them. 

Yeah, it's loaded. I just want to see some intelligent responses. 

Bang!


----------



## Holland

This really is on you OP. In all you weeks of conversation with her you didn't have the guts to have an open dialogue about your requirement for a low number. Learn to communicate.

A well dressed, educated woman that earns good money is not good enough for you, she also has to have a low number. Well speak up before sleeping with someone. 

And a woman of 42 is not a girl, show some respect.


----------



## SpinDaddy

SpinDaddy said:


> . . . . That said, I do appreciate where you are, because I see it every day in my firm with a number of my contemporaries and seniors.


. . . . and from what I’ve seen with them, you are headed down a path of emotional emptiness if you do not wake up and smell the coffee.

Seriously, I’m not here to bust your chops.


----------



## ConanHub

2ntnuf said:


> Here's a hand grenade for ya, since rep is done.
> 
> I was just thinking this crazy thought. If sex is not that big of a deal and you have higher numbers than a spouse/SO, and they are a good match for you and compatible in other ways except numbers, would you be willing to let them bring their numbers up? I'm thinking, the sex with others they don't love wouldn't mean that much. They love you, you love them.
> 
> Yeah, it's loaded. I just want to see some intelligent responses.
> 
> Bang!


No matter what anyone says, sex is important. I would not be with anyone that committed to me and then wanted to "up" their numbers or experiences.

Commitment and devotion and love are what is important to me.


----------



## 2ntnuf

ConanHub said:


> No matter what anyone says, sex is important. I would not be with anyone that committed to me and then wanted to "up" their numbers or experiences.
> 
> Commitment and devotion and love are what is important to me.


And that's exactly what I think when I read someone's post that says sex is just sex or some variation. So, all of this parrying is really bullcrap. If rep wants someone with lower numbers, he has a right to that. So does anyone else. He's no more rotten than someone who has high numbers and wants to be with someone with low numbers. In fact, in my opinion, he is less rotten. I think he just made a mistake due to needing affection. He just didn't ask the right questions at the right time. 

Of course it's rotten to sleep with someone under the pretense that you want a relationship when you actually don't. I think that happens with younger adults more than older. Inexperience is the culprit. If that's why it's such a big deal, that's wrong in itself. 

If that woman has higher numbers, and with her age and as others have stated in detail about that likelihood, she likely knows the score. She takes as much chance in the dating world as he does. I think it comes down to a matter of no one asking the right questions, neither him nor her.


----------



## ConanHub

2ntnuf said:


> And that's exactly what I think when I read someone's post that says sex is just sex or some variation. So, all of this parrying is really bullcrap. If rep wants someone with lower numbers, he has a right to that. So does anyone else. He's no more rotten than someone who has high numbers and wants to be with someone with low numbers. In fact, in my opinion, he is less rotten. I think he just made a mistake due to needing affection. He just didn't ask the right questions at the right time.
> 
> Of course it's rotten to sleep with someone under the pretense that you want a relationship when you actually don't. I think that happens with younger adults more than older. Inexperience is the culprit. If that's why it's such a big deal, that's wrong in itself.
> 
> If that woman has higher numbers, and with her age and as others have stated in detail about that likelihood, she likely knows the score. She takes as much chance in the dating world as he does. I think it comes down to a matter of no one asking the right questions, neither him nor her.


I don't think rep is rotten for his preferences, but I think he is rotten for sleeping with someone and then judging them afterwards. Gotta say, I am pretty pissed about his treatment of her.

I also think that he will not find a good relationship looking the way he is looking and acting the way he is.

To be worthy of love you must at least be lovable.

I think he needs to do some serious work on himself. He got himself into this situation with what sounds like a very good woman. She did nothing wrong here but he certainly did.


----------



## 2ntnuf

ConanHub said:


> I don't think rep is rotten for his preferences, but I think he is rotten for sleeping with someone and then judging them afterwards. Gotta say, I am pretty pissed about his treatment of her.
> 
> I also think that he will not find a good relationship looking the way he is looking and acting the way he is.
> 
> To be worthy of love you must at least be lovable.
> 
> I think he needs to do some serious work on himself. He got himself into this situation with what sounds like a very good woman. She did nothing wrong here but he certainly did.


Yeah, if he is looking for a relationship like he posted, this won't get him one. I agree.


----------



## EleGirl

Divinely Favored said:


> Yeah. The reason I spoke about women is because OPs conundrum Is about a female. I was a good guy who was over looked by the girls wanting to get with the bad boy jock wh*re monger guys. After they have been used and abused then they start looking for the nice guy. I'm like "Ya didn't want me when I though you were respectable...I damn sure don't want you now!"
> 
> I had one happen that way...i kinda liked a girl that we were friends with. She had a baby and i told the girl exactly how the guy(my HS BF was A PLAYER) was gonna do her. I told her she could date me or him. She chose him, he hit it and exited stage right...then she comes to me wanting to go out! I declined. I would not touch any woman he has been with!
> 
> My views are slanted against women because I was the nice guy that was mistreated
> 
> by them....The parents all loved me. That's the death nell in a relationship for teens.


A lot of men to this to women who are not 10’s….

They ignore more average women. They chase the "hot" ones. Then suddenly when the guy wants to get married, he decides he's too good for the women he's been sleeping with and he discovers the more average looking woman. Then after he marries her complains that she’s not hot enough and does not romance her and maintain the relationship well because he does not view a more average women worthy of this.


----------



## larry.gray

ChristianGrey said:


> Or maybe she is a virgin but didn't want to say it as many guys don't like inexperienced girls.


Speak for yourself. I'd be digging at why though. I sure as heck wouldn't want to be hitched to a no drive lady. If she had normallish drive but had strong morals about premarital sex, teaching her would be fun.


----------



## larry.gray

Fozzy said:


> What if it was only one guy, but it was millions of times doing obscene things and he was totally the best she would ever experience and you could NEVER compare?
> 
> But it was just one guy?


Well if I die some dude is going to be living that scenario with my wife :rofl:


----------



## 2ntnuf

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men to this to women who are not 10’s….
> 
> They ignore more average women. They chase the "hot" ones. Then suddenly when the guy wants to get married, he decides he's too good for the women he's been sleeping with and he discovers the more average looking woman. Then after he marries her complains that she’s not hot enough and does not romance her and maintain the relationship well because he does not view a more average women worthy of this.


I know a guy like this. He married the average because he thought she would not cheat on him. That was what I heard from a few men. 

Some will wait and marry the virgin bride. They are out with many women and find religion. Then want the prettiest virgin they can find. I think it's a little revolting, but they are both adults. 

I think there is a sense that the virgin will be less likely to cheat, especially if she is religious. Kinda makes me feel a little queasy. 

Truly, I think compatibility is key. Similarity in thinking and life in all things gives the best chance for success in a long-term relationship, imo. Nothing will be perfect. All will take work. How much, I think depends on how compatible the two are.


----------



## larry.gray

EleGirl said:


> Being married should lead to even more sexual experience. If a married couple has sex daily for 9 years. that's 3,285 times, if it's "just" 2 times a week for 9 years, that's 936 times.
> 
> Or if it's like a lot of marriages we hear about here.. they might have had sex once in 9 years.
> 
> A woman who had sex with 100 men in 9 years might have only had sex 100 times.
> 
> The number of people someone has had sex with only tells us the number of people she/he had sex with. It does not tell us how experienced they are..
> 
> Having been married also does not tell us how experienced the person is.


That's what I think about making cracks about promiscuous women being "loose" because of all of the sex. I'm betting VERY FEW promiscuous women have had as much sex as my wife who's only ever been with one man. We're both insane drive, and went from 20ish times a week to 7-10 times per week after 20 years. 

The exception might be a woman who keeps 3 or more men on tap at all times for a FWB relationship and beds at least one of them daily.


----------



## ConanHub

larry.gray said:


> That's what I think about making cracks about promiscuous women being "loose" because of all of the sex. I'm betting VERY FEW promiscuous women have had as much sex as my wife who's only ever been with one man. We're both insane drive, and went from 20ish times a week to 7-10 times per week after 20 years.
> 
> The exception might be a woman who keeps 3 or more men on tap at all times for a FWB relationship and beds at least one of them daily.


Could you bottle some of whatever your wife is using for blood. I have that high of a drive but I thought I was weird.

My wife is probably normal. Satisfying but 2-3 times a day would be heaven!

Very happy for you and a little envious!


----------



## 2ntnuf

I knew a guy who said he did it with his wife fifty times a week. That would be seven times a day plus one extra, once a week. Yeah, he had 52 kids and his wife died at age 27. She left all her money to her husband. He gave it to the other two women he was screwing. He was a real dog, not a wimp.


----------



## larry.gray

ConanHub said:


> Could you bottle some of whatever your wife is using for blood. I have that high of a drive but I thought I was weird.
> 
> My wife is probably normal. Satisfying but 2-3 times a day would be heaven!
> 
> Very happy for you and a little envious!


2-3 times a day was a long time ago. My problem is my mind still is revved up to that level but I just can't anymore. No ED issues, but I just won't orgasm again. So rather than being sore and frustrated we just do it less.


----------



## larry.gray

I'm also reminded why I rarely mention this online or IRL. Inevitably there are those that call me a liar.


----------



## ConanHub

larry.gray said:


> I'm also reminded why I rarely mention this online or IRL. Inevitably there are those that call me a liar.


Nope. I am revved up that high too. My lovely wife just isn't.

Some people just are I guess and it makes me feel better knowing there are others.


----------



## sidney2718

Revamped said:


> This kinda got my blood pressure moving...
> 
> And just WHO are these ladies having sex and hooking up with?
> 
> That's right, MEN. But you don't call THEM out as being "loose".


BINGO!

The double standard lives!


----------



## rep

please allow me to clear a couple things up.
The sleeping with was my mistake. I don't have a lot of dating exp.
I was married 17 years and then had a 3 year relationship followed by a 3-4 moth relationship, that it. Ive been with 12 women. 
This women is a lttitle bit of a mystery, very classy etc. She was married for 9 years and had a 3 year relationship. She has been divorced since 2006 and then had the 3 year relationship.
Everything seemed great. We were watching Spartacus and started making out,,yes we slept together,,after sex,,,still watching Spartacus DVD, I asked bc she was really into the sex,,more so than Im used to. Very expeiernced. When she didn't know her number, I was shocked. My previous women had low numbers and Im not used to a women that has had threesomes and treats sex as men do.
Certaintly that's the reason I came on here,,,to find out what the hell is going on with todays society,,I feel like Ive been in a vacuum.
I didn't mean to hurt her or be dis-respectful. I do like to have a women that me, I feel that I can place on a pedestal. I don't think im truly in the minority here. Most men,,I feel prefer a women to not have slept around a lot.
Thankls


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

You don't even know if her number is high. It could be 12 like yours but since some of them would be years or decades ago, she'd need some time to think about it and come up with a number. 

Is it a bad thing for women to treat sex "as men do"? Are you looking for someone who does not want sex as much as you? Because those guys often end up over in SIM. Maybe read though there a while, you might appreciate this type of woman more.


----------



## Openminded

Plenty of women treat sex in the same casual way that plenty of men do. And down the road there's always the possibility that they will be judged for it in a way that men aren't. The old double standard is still around and will be for a long time, I'm guessing. I just don't see where discussing numbers is a good idea.


----------



## FatherofTwo

My ex didnt know how many lovers she had in the past either and I foolishly didnt think it was a big deal.

I later found out it would be a big deal since a leopard apparently doesnt change it's spots ..... or something like that ??


----------



## ConanHub

OP. She sounds wonderful in all honesty. You sound like a lucky man to have her eye.

You have been sheltered but I don't disrespect your preference.

You might just be kicking yourself in a few years for passing her up if she is all that but her history is not perfect.

Best of luck.


----------



## Holland

larry.gray said:


> I'm also reminded why I rarely mention this online or IRL. Inevitably there are those that call me a liar.


Won't be hearing me call you a liar. Sure we have spoken about this before but Mr H is almost mid 50's and twice a day is what he likes. If we had time for a third (sometimes on the weekend) then he is all for it.


----------



## rep

Her. Number is 20, not including the 2 threesomes.


----------



## 2ntnuf

rep said:


> Her. Number is 20, not including the 2 threesomes.


So that's 24. By TAM rules, which I usually tend to agree with, that's actually 3 X 24 = 72. 

Truthfully, it's tough to believe that rule. I can understand under and overestimating. Not sure about this. I have my doubts.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

So you did ask her for that number? Did you do it by text? Then dump her after cause it was more than your 12?


----------



## abe7333

ConanHub said:


> Run. She knows and will probably lie to make you like her more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Some women dont want to disclose things like that early on in their relationship. Me and wife had been together for 10 years and I asked once but she didnt Want to disclose. So ok never asked. Everybody has different perceptions of what would be ok. For some maybe just one but for others it wont matter. But women in general dont like to reveal their past partners.


----------



## Vega

Rep,

You mentioned that you knew the numbers for 3 of the 12 women you've slept with. 

Did you know the numbers of the _*other*_ 9 women?


----------



## rep

When I was young, it didn't cross my mind. I got married around 24. 
So no, I didn't ask the other 9.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Mr.Fisty said:


> Eh, my first gf was 6 years older and of course she had more experience. I learned a lot from her. My last gf only had one partner before me. Tbh, I really don't think about it half the time. My second gf was a recovering drug addict, and she had over 30 partners when I met her, and she was my second. Only reason why we broke up is because she was so broken. She was only 17. I guess for some it bothers them and others it does not. For me at least, it depends on the person they are now. I think the number for some brings insecurity. Like they won't measure up to past partners. My mindset is as long as the sex is good, f it. I don't put myself in competition with anyone. Whats the point when there is always someone better out there.


Some thoughts on this. 

-do you think she was broken from men using her since she was on drugs? Maybe I am thinking she was into drugs deeply.

-I'm also wondering if you would consider that the chances of women being treated badly increase exponentially the more psrtners they have had. So, would you then have some trepidation concerning dating another woman who has had many partners? There don't have to be drugs involved for women to be treated badly or abused.

-I agree, for both men and women, there is always someone more compatible. Do you think this leads men and women to consider divorce more quickly? Do you think the fact that someone has had more partners makes them more aware that it's just a marriage? Is commitment and fidelity dead? Should we give up on fidelity? And, why bother committing to anyone? In fact, who does anyone bother dating if not to procreate? The pleasure gained can be gotten in other ways. Each person can deal with their won issues and not find themselves responsible for the infidelity of their cheating spouse, and there will not be any infidelity in their lives, of this type.

-So, would someone tend to look for someone who understands them better? Would the chance of that be more likely if the two had similar numbers of partners, types of relationships, and commitments?

Hey, not picking on you. I'm not saying you or anyone else is dong something wrong. It may be different than what I think or do, but it's not wrong for them. I just got this idea and thought I'd run with it to see what folks think and add to this discussion.


----------



## Stillasamountain

I don't think it's the high number per se, as much as the reasons why. A bunch of failed LTR attempts or even affectionate casual hookups are, I'm my mind, qualitatively different from attention seeking, dopamine addiction, BSC, daddy issues or other forms of broken behavior likely to persist into a new realationship.

If you're completely risk averse, then an absolute number can serve as a rough litmus test. Maybe that's all you need. But that seems a bit shortsighted to me. It would behoove the more thoughtful person to investigate further and dig for the WHY. At least for someone who appears to bring as much to the table as Rep's lady.

And this absolutely applies to men as well. They can be subject to the same poor behavioral drivers as women. A dyed in the wool pvssy hound is probably going to fall under the umbrella of poor mate selection.

I understand personal preference comes into play and some have hard lines, regardless of context, but to bait and switch her like that? Bad juju.


----------



## JennB

My husband and I have been married for almost 6 years and gave never had the sexual partners number talk. 

If he had sex with 3 people before we met or 300 people it wouldn't change my feelings for him. His past doesn't affect our marriage.


----------



## Jellybeans

rep said:


> Her. Number is 20, not including the 2 threesomes.


So you're going to dump her, right?


----------



## ChristianGrey

Jellybeans said:


> So you're going to dump her, right?


That would depend on if the 3somes were MMF or FFM.


----------



## chillymorn

If a woman is experienced and has had a lot of lovers isn't your cup of tea just walk away.

I will say her being evasive about it points to it being a large number.

maybe she doesn't feel comfortable with you enough to be totally honest with you.

I wouldn't mind a woman who has a checkered past so to speak. But I would mind a woman who would lie to my face. If she said this topic should be revisited when were more comfortable with each other. That would be different than lying about it and saying I don't remember.


----------



## chillymorn

wrap it up before you stick it in.........better safe than sorry!


----------



## Jellybeans

He already stuck it in on the second date.


----------



## ChristianGrey

Jellybeans said:


> He already stuck it in on the second date.


Oh nos.

Now there is one additional guy she has slept with. She will also need to go and get checked for STDs.

The next guy she meets would be even more confused by her _sex count_.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

rep said:


> She was married 9 years and had a 3 year relationship. Been divorced since 2006
> We had sex on 2nd date. On 3rd date we erred watching Spartacus and a sex scene. I asked if she has ever had threesome. She said yes, twice. She explained them.
> It promoted the numbers question.
> She said,,, I don't know, I never kept count. She is an extremely honest person.
> I feel that the number is high and I need to know. Guess it's best to just text and ask and get it over with. If it's high,, I need too move on.
> It's a shame bc I I really do like her


I haven't read past this, but if you had sex on the second date but profess to be "old fashioned" and want purer women... LOL

You sir, are a hypocrite! Honesty my ass...


----------



## 2ntnuf

Just bang her and move on. Tell her you just want some fun. She'll understand.


----------



## BuddyL33

rep said:


> Went out on 3rd date and previous lovers came up. She said she has no clue.
> She said that she has been single a long time and didn't keep count.
> I was blown away. I know my number.
> I always thought females def kept count?
> This seems to be a huge red flag to me.
> She said that she could figure it out if it's important to me,, but I think that asking her to figure it out will cause tension??


I don't really have a clue either. I'd guess it to be between 60-70 but I'm really not sure. There comes a point when you stop keeping track. For me it was an age thing, that caused me to quit. It wasn't that once I reached a certain number I stopped tracking it. 

My current GF doesn't know her exact number either. I think she told me 15ish or something like that when it came up.

I've never understood why having a lot of partners is a big deal for either sex. I mean, human beings have sex for pleasure as well as procreation. So what's the big deal? Is she clean? If yes then move on to the relationship. Not like you were a factor in her past sexual partners so why make it about you?


----------



## Jellybeans

2ntnuf said:


> Just bang her and move on. Tell her you just want some fun. She'll understand.


"I just want to have sex with you but don't see anything happening between us beyond that because I don't like your number it turns me off."

Carry on.


----------



## DoF

This is a red flag to YOU OP.

Never EVER ask the lady about her past. What's in the past is completely irrelevant to your current relationship.

She is smart enough to know that sharing these #s will ONLY do damage.

Your only concerns are the following:
STD
Porn or Nudes

I would apologize to her for asking and tell her not to share that info with you in the future.


----------



## devotion

I guess I'm still not seeing a problem here that others are that the OP had sex but then wants to know his partner is in the same ballpark as him. His count is 12 (now 13?) her count was 20 (now 21?). Maybe that's the same ballpark in his determination, maybe not. 

If this relationship doesn't work out and he runs into a woman who thinks his # of 12 or 13 is too high, then she has every right to end it, just like he does if her number of 20 or 21 is too high. 

Yes maybe its a bit hypocritical that he asks this question after both their numbers have increased one, but maybe he's just looking for someone in the same league, not necessarily a virgin or someone way below his own number. 

Just saying it can be important to someone, just like hair color can be important. I couldn't care less about the latter, but I'm honest and will say the former is important to me.


----------



## ChristianGrey

devotion said:


> I guess I'm still not seeing a problem here that others are that the OP had sex but then wants to know his partner is in the same ballpark as him. His count is 12 (now 13?) her count was 20 (now 21?). Maybe that's the same ballpark in his determination, maybe not.
> 
> If this relationship doesn't work out and he runs into a woman who thinks his # of 12 or 13 is too high, then she has every right to end it, just like he does if her number of 20 or 21 is too high.
> 
> Yes maybe its a bit hypocritical that he asks this question after both their numbers have increased one, but maybe he's just looking for someone in the same league, not necessarily a virgin or someone way below his own number.
> 
> Just saying it can be important to someone, just like hair color can be important. I couldn't care less about the latter, but I'm honest and will say the former is important to me.


Its advisable to stop counting after 3.

Your _first_, and then they guy/girl you went out with because you were heartbroken and depressed, the _mistake_ and then the guy/girl whom you were stable with and had long term plans but it never worked out unfortunately, the _last one_ or the _Ex_.


----------



## 2ntnuf

BuddyL33 said:


> I don't really have a clue either. I'd guess it to be between 60-70 but I'm really not sure. There comes a point when you stop keeping track. For me it was an age thing, that caused me to quit. It wasn't that once I reached a certain number I stopped tracking it.
> 
> My current GF doesn't know her exact number either. I think she told me 15ish or something like that when it came up.
> 
> I've never understood why having a lot of partners is a big deal for either sex. I mean, human beings have sex for pleasure as well as procreation. So what's the big deal? Is she clean? If yes then move on to the relationship. Not like you were a factor in her past sexual partners so why make it about you?


For me, it has to do with the attitude that has to go along with having lots of partners. One has to think sex is just sex and not a special act given to another person. It's a part of me that not everyone can have. It's part of me that only a few will ever know. Of course, that value drops as the amount of partners increases. So, sex is valued less by some. Therefore, commitment and fidelity has to mean less. it has to. Fidelity is all about sex. Yes, it's about emotional fidelity, too. How many women say they need to feel safe and secure to even want to have sex? So, by those types of statements, sex is more important than the emotions, because they have to first have an emotional connection. So, when men or women have plenty of partners, although, I think women tend to think a bit differently than men, they are saying that sex is not as important as the emotional side of the relationship. So, sex just means a way to get an orgasm without masturbating alone. So, they will more easily have sex with some acquaintance than with someone they love. Because, it's just sex. 

Isn't the definition of infidelity for most men, having sex with someone other than the person they are in a relationship with and committed to? Women tend to naturally think that EA's are a huge deal. Men do too, but in a slightly different sense. Men know it's how to get through panties. If a woman considers sex as such a non-issue, won't she need less emotional attachment to have sex? I don't claim to know. This all makes sense to me, though. 

I think, from what I have been told by women, they don't want their SO having an EA because they know when a man's heart is touched through his emotions, he tends to find himself devoted to that woman, doing things for her and getting sex in return. He takes care of the other woman instead of her. 

This may or may not make sense at all. I tried to explain how I think about this. So, there is your good enough for sex, but not good enough for marriage. It's a hell of a thing and hurtful too. I don't mean to be hurtful, but you asked. 

I guess I see this line of thinking as logical. It may not be, but it does seem like it. I bet I'm one of few men who have the guts to really think about it and post what they actually think. Sometimes, when a woman really connects with a man, in a chemical, emotional, experiential, and physical way, the numbers don't matter. My second wife had much higher numbers, but I felt closer to her than any other woman I've known...Any. 

So, now I wonder. Did she just know how to treat men in general to show the things that look like love to them, while never really being in love herself? That, I believe, would also be a product of having been in a decent amount of relationships, dating experiences, or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, I personaly, can easily believe that I am loved. I've proven that I have a flaw in myself and will settle for much less than others. At least, that's what my counselor suggests. We will have to explore that more to know with more certainty. And, I suppose that is because of my beliefs surrounding the importance of sex and how it's like giving a part of me. I would then set myself up to believe that a woman who has sex with me, actually loves me, or at least is pretty close to love, because I need to feel something akin to love to have sex. Now, that has waned, but it is still a factor. For me, it's not the woman I put on a pedestal, but the sex, I suppose. 

The only way I know to get rid of that is to sleep with women just to have a sexual release. That would degrade a woman, as has been stated here, although, I have read many posts that lead me to believe this may not be true for many women. They just seem to hide behind that when they are looking to settle down with someone. So, I may be confused, but I'm trying to be honest.


----------



## Vega

Rep,

This is not just a one-time “mistake” you made with this woman; this is a _pattern_ with you. You have made this same ‘mistake’ with several other women. Luckily, their numbers seemed to be acceptable to you at the time, but the point is that you inquired about their number AFTER you already started sleeping with them. 

You said that when you were young, it didn’t cross your mind. Yet even as you have aged, it doesn’t seem to cross your mind either…

…until AFTER you’ve already had sex with them, and start to see them in a more ‘serious’ light. 

It’s perfectly o.k. to want to be with someone with a relatively low number, whether you want a serious relationship with them or not. What’s NOT perfectly fine is to start thinking about this and inquiring about it _AFTER_ you’ve already had sex with them. 

If you take sex as ‘seriously’ as you say you do, then I would think a woman’s number would matter to you BEFORE you start sleeping with her. 

To consider her number _after_ the fact is what makes you deplorable. 

My advice to you is this: Start thinking with the head _above_ your neck _*BEFORE *_engaging the one _below_ your waist!


----------



## Vega

devotion said:


> I guess I'm still not seeing a problem here that others are that the OP had sex but then wants to know his partner is in the same ballpark as his.


Why couldn't he have inquired about her number BEFORE having sex? 

How would he feel if he was treated the same way by a woman?


----------



## Openminded

You also need to accept that some women will not tell the truth about their number -- because they feel it's none of your business or now they wish their number weren't so high or whatever the reason is -- and so you can't really rely on what you are being told.


----------



## devotion

Vega said:


> Why couldn't he have inquired about her number BEFORE having sex?
> 
> How would he feel if he was treated the same way by a woman?


Because maybe he felt his number was low enough so one more is OK (practice makes perfect!), but for a long term partner, he wanted still someone in the same ballpark? 

I would agree he should be OK if he received the same treatment from a future woman! While its definitely a cultural double standard I think a MAN with a high number can be a problem for some women too, and that's their right.


----------



## Wolf1974

Vega said:


> Why couldn't he have inquired about her number BEFORE having sex?
> 
> How would he feel if he was treated the same way by a woman?


I agree. I think the reasonable people here are saying he can have any criteria for a relationship he wants. But he is holding that criteria against her after the fact. Now maybe he doesn't have a lot of realtionship experience and he will flush this out from now on. Least we hope


----------



## 2ntnuf

Jellybeans said:


> "I just want to have sex with you but don't see anything happening between us beyond that because I don't like your number it turns me off."
> 
> Carry on.


Nah, I didn't write that. It's what you are thinking I might be thinking. Not true. I don't think he has yet given her any big clues as to what he thinks. He can still have fun and so can she. They both like sex, right? Win - win.


----------



## minimalME

A few years ago, I believed in transparency and full disclosure, but I no longer do.

For me, I no longer ask/answer this question (how many) because I no longer believe it's helpful or relevant.

Although not all people are promiscuous, we live in a promiscuous society.

The only questions I believe I have a right to ask are - _Do you have an STI?_ and _When was the last time you were tested?_ And I accept that even these might be lied about. 

Relationships are a risk. No one is 100% forthcoming or honest, no matter how strong their desire to be. 

Many men will readily acknowledge that they'll lie about their intentions to have sex with a woman, and they'll also admit that even if a woman answers their questions, they often doubt her and raise whatever number she offers.

It's all become somewhat ridiculous, and I don't feel any need to satisfy a person's morbid curiosity. If a man wants to imagine what my past has been like, he'll have to do it without my input.

And just as a side note - a woman being good at sex has little to do with her number of partners.

I consider myself a very good lover - not because of my count, but because I have a strong desire to please my partner. I also read a lot of articles, and I've watched a lot of pornography, specifically to learn a variety of techniques.

So, my ability to give an amazing blow job doesn't mean I've given one to every other man I've met. It means I enjoy learning and being the best I can be.


----------



## ConanHub

DoF said:


> This is a red flag to YOU OP.
> 
> Never EVER ask the lady about her past. What's in the past is completely irrelevant to your current relationship.
> 
> She is smart enough to know that sharing these #s will ONLY do damage.
> 
> Your only concerns are the following:
> STD
> Porn or Nudes
> 
> I would apologize to her for asking and tell her not to share that info with you in the future.


Disagree. A partners past is relevant but if you have standards you better live by them. OP has standards that he does not exactly hold himself to when it comes to "sexual purity ".

I needed a little info on my wife's past before getting serious.
Numbers were not MY concern but I had other criteria.

I walked the walk though. Did not sleep with my future wife and then say she was unacceptable because of anything to do with sexuality. Although, I could understand reservations in extreme circumstances like ex porn star or prostitute.


----------



## DoF

ConanHub said:


> Disagree. A partners past is relevant but if you have standards you better live by them. OP has standards that he does not exactly hold himself to when it comes to "sexual purity ".
> 
> I needed a little info on my wife's past before getting serious.
> Numbers were not MY concern but I had other criteria.
> 
> I walked the walk though. Did not sleep with my future wife and then say she was unacceptable because of anything to do with sexuality. Although, I could understand reservations in extreme circumstances like ex porn star or prostitute.


We will agree to disagree.

I just don't see how someone's past sexual experiences can do ANYTHING but damage. There is NEVER any good that could come of the answer to "how many" or "past sexual experiences" question.

If you like or love the person....it will hurt (even if the number is low).

I don't recommend for women to ever answer those questions.....or for men to ask them......unless you want pain.

Porn/Nudes or STD should be the only concern and something that does matter. Rest.....leave where it belongs, in the past.


----------



## michzz

The lady in question could have answered:

1. None of your business

2. Dozens

3. Hundreds

4. Thousands

5. Exactly 6,544

6. Two

Or, she could have evaded your question as she did.


----------



## FOB

I'm not sure if someone else has mentioned this as I haven't read every response, but you've said a few times that you want to be able to put the woman you're with "on a pedestal." In my opinion, that's not very fair for the person you're with (I say this from experience, as I did the same thing to my wife early in our marriage). 

Doing that doesn't allow your SO to feel free to be human - make mistakes, disappoint you, fall short in your eyes. Instead, it breeds fear, because they're worried about shattering your image of them. Not real healthy.

If her number bothers you, so be it. Move on. But I would look at this as an incredible example of someone being really honest. As someone else said earlier, I'll take honesty every time.


----------



## EleGirl

2ntnuf said:


> Nah, I didn't write that. It's what you are thinking I might be thinking. Not true. I don't think he has yet given her any big clues as to what he thinks. He can still have fun and so can she. They both like sex, right? Win - win.


They both like sex. But it's not a win-win if he is not honest with her about his intentions.


----------



## EleGirl

michzz said:


> The lady in question could have answered:
> 
> 1. None of your business
> 
> 2. Dozens
> 
> 3. Hundreds
> 
> 4. Thousands
> 
> 5. Exactly 6,544
> 
> 6. Two
> 
> Or, she could have evaded your question as she did.


Or she cold have been completely honest in saying that she does not know but can figure it out if it's important to her.


----------



## DoF

EleGirl said:


> Or she cold have been completely honest in saying that she does not know but can figure it out if it's important to her.


Approach she took is wrong.

Say NO, don't beat around the bush. And by all means NEVER EVER share that info.

Middle one is dangerous, as now the guy is assuming "worst case scenarios".....I guarantee it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

EleGirl said:


> They both like sex. But it's not a win-win if he is not honest with her about his intentions.


I agree to an extent. We don't know how she feels. She's never posted a thing about it.


----------



## DoF

FOB said:


> If her number bothers you, so be it. Move on. But I would look at this as an incredible example of someone being really honest. As someone else said earlier, I'll take honesty every time.


I will take you up on this.

The number is 243. 

Or better yet, some of these guys had a penis you can never EVER even compete with.

Hey, do you want to go on another date? 

Honesty I tell ya


----------



## 2ntnuf

One thing about the penis comment. Either you do it for her most of the time in bed or you don't. That's all there is to it. One of the issues with a woman having a brain that is her biggest sexual organ is, she can and will have a better or worse experience due to things other than size, to an extent. So, you can never really know except by being with her for a while. And if she says it is to small or big, you can not truly know for sure.


----------



## FOB

DoF said:


> I will take you up on this.
> 
> The number is 243.
> 
> Or better yet, some of these guys had a penis you can never EVER even compete with.
> 
> Hey, do you want to go on another date?
> 
> Honesty I tell ya


DoF, I get what you're saying, and I'm not saying numbers didn't matter to me when I met my future wife. But in my opinion, an experienced (that definition will vary for each person) honest woman is a much better find than a lying, conniving virgin. 

The penis sentence is funny. Unless a guy is a 1 percenter, most likely the woman he's with has had bigger (if she had previous partners). If that was one of my criteria for finding the right person, I would have died a lonely man - or married a dishonest woman!

Life, it's so damn messy.


----------



## ConanHub

DoF said:


> I will take you up on this.
> 
> The number is 243.
> 
> Or better yet, some of these guys had a penis you can never EVER even compete with.
> 
> Hey, do you want to go on another date?
> 
> Honesty I tell ya


Everyone has a right to their own criteria regarding past sexuality of a partner. Your hang ups or preferences are yours but you really should not try to impose your standards on everyone.

I did not care about numbers or, LOL!, size of previous partners. But finding out does not bother me either. My wife and I are getting more sexual with each other all the time and this topic has come up through conversation.

We are finding out about our histories to better understand each other and grow closer.

I didn't ask but found out through conversation that my wife's first husband was something of a freak in the size department and we are still working on numbers. I am not affected by this or insecure in anyway. Her first marriage lasted two years and was really over in one. She has been with me for 23 and it is only getting better.

Your advice should be followed by you. My only problem with rep is he has standards of "sexual purity" that he does not seem to follow. He should never have bedded the woman with the standards he has in place without first seeing if she was like minded.

I am fine with my wife and am certainly not leaving her. You want to tell me that finding out about her sexual past is not right for me?

I already know a lot and love her more every day. I am going to continue to find out because I want to know all of her and become even more intimate through greater understanding of her. I want her to do likewise.

Your advice is not good for a guy like me. Only for men with RJ or insecurity issues. I want to be very open with my wife and know her better than anyone.

I am very confident with her in and out of the bedroom and continue to get more confident as time goes by.

Can you see how your advice is not good for everyone or at least me?


----------



## 2ntnuf

What is the correct number of dates before it's okay to have sex with a woman? I mean, who makes this stuff up? I had sex with x2 on the, well, I think it was the third date. I told her I was interested in having fun. She said she was looking for a relationship. If you truly don't count the time we had lunch together at my asking as a date, it was only about 45 minutes at most, then we had sex after the second date. 

So, love and purity gurus, which I find a little off putting when so many profess to be experienced, what does that say about us? Am I also a "bad" guy, or would I only have been if I did not stay with her?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

2ntnuf said:


> What is the correct number of dates before it's okay to have sex with a woman? I mean, who makes this stuff up? I had sex with x2 on the, well, I think it was the third date. I told her I was interested in having fun. She said she was looking for a relationship. If you truly don't count the time we had lunch together at my asking as a date, it was only about 45 minutes at most, then we had sex after the second date.
> 
> So, love and purity gurus, which I find a little off putting when so many profess to be experienced, what does that say about us? Am I also a "bad" guy, or would I only have been if I did not stay with her?


Nothing about you at all. More about someone who profess to be into chaste women but will screw on the 1st or 2nd date.


----------



## ConanHub

2ntnuf said:


> What is the correct number of dates before it's okay to have sex with a woman? I mean, who makes this stuff up? I had sex with x2 on the, well, I think it was the third date. I told her I was interested in having fun. She said she was looking for a relationship. If you truly don't count the time we had lunch together at my asking as a date, it was only about 45 minutes at most, then we had sex after the second date.
> 
> So, love and purity gurus, which I find a little off putting when so many profess to be experienced, what does that say about us? Am I also a "bad" guy, or would I only have been if I did not stay with her?


Everybody has to have their own standards. You did not sleep with her and then think to ask if she was disgusting to you.

Most women I have been with got naked with me within the first few hours of meeting me and none of them took longer than 24 hours including my wife.

I did not judge any of them poorly or wonder about their numbers but that is just me.

Some men would not approve of the women I have been with and that is their right to have standards for their life.

I was only with a couple gals that cheesed me out, for non sexual reasons, and one that I became totally disgusted with on every level, the belly dancer, and that was my bad for jumping before looking. She shed no tears at my leaving though, she was a true maneater!


----------



## minimalME

Two reasons my thinking on this has changed - the first is being on this site and seeing how people obsess - whether they're told or not.

And two, I got tired of feeling interrogated. 

The last man I tried to have an open dialogue with about this topic -  it was never enough. He spent more time asking questions about other men from my past than he did about anything else. It became annoying and unattractive, and I told him as much. But he didn't seem to care about the effects of his behavior, so I just stopped answering.

After that experience, I chose to shut down these sorts of questions. 

Later, another man I dated basically did the same thing. His main three topics of conversation were his ex-wife, his most recent ex-girlfriend and pressing to know how 'experienced' I was.

It just gets old very quickly when it seems like some would rather spend more time in the past than living in the present. And it doesn't come off like genuine interest or concern about me or us. These aren't heart to heart talks. In the moment, these questions feel like nothing more than collecting data.


----------



## sidney2718

JennB said:


> My husband and I have been married for almost 6 years and gave never had the sexual partners number talk.
> 
> If he had sex with 3 people before we met or 300 people it wouldn't change my feelings for him. His past doesn't affect our marriage.


Well it actually does. It made him the man you fell in love with...


----------



## DoF

ConanHub said:


> Everyone has a right to their own criteria regarding past sexuality of a partner. Your hang ups or preferences are yours but you really should not try to impose your standards on everyone.
> 
> I did not care about numbers or, LOL!, size of previous partners. But finding out does not bother me either. My wife and I are getting more sexual with each other all the time and this topic has come up through conversation.
> 
> We are finding out about our histories to better understand each other and grow closer.
> 
> I didn't ask but found out through conversation that my wife's first husband was something of a freak in the size department and we are still working on numbers. I am not affected by this or insecure in anyway. Her first marriage lasted two years and was really over in one. She has been with me for 23 and it is only getting better.
> 
> Your advice should be followed by you. My only problem with rep is he has standards of "sexual purity" that he does not seem to follow. He should never have bedded the woman with the standards he has in place without first seeing if she was like minded.
> 
> I am fine with my wife and am certainly not leaving her. You want to tell me that finding out about her sexual past is not right for me?
> 
> I already know a lot and love her more every day. I am going to continue to find out because I want to know all of her and become even more intimate through greater understanding of her. I want her to do likewise.
> 
> Your advice is not good for a guy like me. Only for men with RJ or insecurity issues. I want to be very open with my wife and know her better than anyone.
> 
> I am very confident with her in and out of the bedroom and continue to get more confident as time goes by.
> 
> Can you see how your advice is not good for everyone or at least me?


That's common sense. Of course one advice can never EVER apply to everyone.

There is ALWAYS an exception to the rule.

I still don't see how a freak size of her ex husband makes you "know here more or closer". That is just bizarre....I'm sorry.

But I still think it's a sound advice for most men. Most struggle with this (we see it here all the time). Once upon a time, I struggled with it as well.

Now I don't really care, but I'm not really interested in finding out these details about my wife's prior partners either (just don't really care to know etc).

I still think it's safe to say that this sort of information can only do damage to the relationship and doesn't really improve anything or make anything better.

If it does/did for you, I'm happy for you. As I like to say, whatever floats your boat.

To me, what you don't know can't hurt you.


----------



## DoF

minimalME said:


> Two reasons my thinking on this has changed - the first is being on this site and seeing how people obsess - whether they're told or not.
> 
> And two, I got tired of feeling interrogated.
> 
> The last man I tried to have an open dialogue with about this topic - it was never enough. He spent more time asking questions about other men from my past than he did about anything else. It became annoying and unattractive, and I told him as much. But he didn't seem to care about the effects of his behavior, so I just stopped answering.
> 
> After this experience, I chose to shut down these shorts of questions. And I will continue to recommend to men to NOT ask these questions.
> 
> Later, another man I dated basically did the same thing. His main three topics of conversation were his ex-wife, his most recent ex-girlfriend and pressing to know how 'experienced' I was.
> 
> It just gets old very quickly when it seems like some would rather spend more time in the past than living in the present. And it doesn't come off like genuine interest or concern about me or us. These aren't heart to heart talks. In the moment, these questions feel like nothing more than collecting data.


Smart

I would highly recommend for any women to keep this information confidential.

Past relationships have absolutely no place in future relationships and are completely irrelevant to current relationship. The only thing you should share is STD and Porn/Nudes for moral reasons of course.


----------



## sidney2718

Vega said:


> Rep,
> 
> This is not just a one-time “mistake” you made with this woman; this is a _pattern_ with you. You have made this same ‘mistake’ with several other women. Luckily, their numbers seemed to be acceptable to you at the time, but the point is that you inquired about their number AFTER you already started sleeping with them.
> 
> You said that when you were young, it didn’t cross your mind. Yet even as you have aged, it doesn’t seem to cross your mind either…
> 
> …until AFTER you’ve already had sex with them, and start to see them in a more ‘serious’ light.
> 
> It’s perfectly o.k. to want to be with someone with a relatively low number, whether you want a serious relationship with them or not. What’s NOT perfectly fine is to start thinking about this and inquiring about it _AFTER_ you’ve already had sex with them.
> 
> If you take sex as ‘seriously’ as you say you do, then I would think a woman’s number would matter to you BEFORE you start sleeping with her.
> 
> To consider her number _after_ the fact is what makes you deplorable.
> 
> My advice to you is this: Start thinking with the head _above_ your neck _*BEFORE *_engaging the one _below_ your waist!


I agree.

What is important to me is not the total number of folks a woman has had sex with. It is her age when she first had sex.

If it was early in her life, she's probably just a sex hound and she should be booted to the curb (after sleeping with her, of course). If it was later in her life, there's clearly something wrong with her and she should be booted to the curb (after sleeping with her, of course).

For me this comes down to the simple fact that a woman who wants a relationship with me had better have had her first episode of sexual intercourse on the second Thursday after turning 18 -- preferably around 11 PM in the evening.

Sooner is too early, later is too late.

And if anyone thinks there is a bit of sarcasm in the above, may your love life be blessed.


----------



## Vega

> Originally Posted by Vega View Post
> Why couldn't he have inquired about her number BEFORE having sex?
> 
> How would he feel if he was treated the same way by a woman?





devotion said:


> Because maybe he felt his number was low enough so one more is OK (practice makes perfect!), but for a long term partner, he wanted still someone in the same ballpark?


But the point is, that he should have thought about--and inquired about--all of this BEFORE sleeping with someone. 

It's like having intercourse, having the orgasm and THEN asking the woman if she's on birth control. If you are a man who doesn't NOT want children (right now), the question of birth control should be raised BEFORE you start sleeping with someone. 

Likewise, if the OP is so concerned about a woman's 'number', and whether or not it's within acceptable 'standards' for him, it's something he should inquire about BEFORE he starts having sex with her. 

Not after the fact.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> Two reasons my thinking on this has changed - the first is being on this site and seeing how people obsess - whether they're told or not.
> 
> And two, I got tired of feeling interrogated.
> 
> The last man I tried to have an open dialogue with about this topic - it was never enough. He spent more time asking questions about other men from my past than he did about anything else. It became annoying and unattractive, and I told him as much. But he didn't seem to care about the effects of his behavior, so I just stopped answering.
> 
> After this experience, I chose to shut down these shorts of questions.
> 
> Later, another man I dated basically did the same thing. His main three topics of conversation were his ex-wife, his most recent ex-girlfriend and pressing to know how 'experienced' I was.
> 
> It just gets old very quickly when it seems like some would rather spend more time in the past than living in the present. And it doesn't come off like genuine interest or concern about me or us. These aren't heart to heart talks. In the moment, these questions feel like nothing more than collecting data.


Are those men even attractive to you? Why would you want to have to hide, sort of, to be with someone like that? Seems like sort of compromising your values to even be with them.


----------



## ConanHub

DoF said:


> That's common sense. Of course one advice can never EVER apply to everyone.
> 
> There is ALWAYS an exception to the rule.
> 
> I still don't see how a freak size of her ex husband makes you "know here more or closer". That is just bizarre....I'm sorry.
> 
> But I still think it's a sound advice for most men. Most struggle with this (we see it here all the time). Once upon a time, I struggled with it as well.
> 
> Now I don't really care, but I'm not really interested in finding out these details about my wife's prior partners either (just don't really care to know etc).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually do not ask about size of previous partners, LOL! It just came up and it does not bother me.
> 
> I get you. There are probably a lot of men who don't want to know or can't handle it. I guess it just comes down to knowing yourself.


----------



## DoF

ConanHub said:


> I actually do not ask about size of previous partners, LOL! It just came up and it does not bother me.


You are a better man than me I guess. What can I say?





ConanHub said:


> I get you. There are probably a lot of men who don't want to know or can't handle it. I guess it just comes down to knowing yourself.


I don't want to know or handle it. I know myself.

Anything involving my loved one and <insert any guy> is rather hurtful......and although I'm mature enough to handle and accept these things now days, I would rather not.

Again, what my wife has done prior to our relationship has 0 effect or baring on our relationship. It matters none, thus I don't really care.


----------



## sidney2718

DoF said:


> Smart
> 
> I would highly recommend for any women to keep this information confidential.
> 
> Past relationships have absolutely no place in future relationships and are completely irrelevant to current relationship. The only thing you should share is STD and Porn/Nudes for moral reasons of course.


Several have said this last. I'm not sure I agree. Info on STD's has to come out, mainly because some are incurable and may be passed on. Genital warts are one example.

But the porn/nudes bit worries me. If the guy really cares, he needs to ask but in a considerate way. Some otherwise innocent folks have sex movies out there because a former husband or BF took them secretly or promised that they would not be shared. Others have had nude photos taken for totally innocent reasons.

So it isn't just the fact of porn/nudes that matters, it is also how they came to be as well.

One of the most beautiful photos I've ever seen was of a woman's breast. She is lying down on sand, probably at a beach. The image was taken from a straight forward ground view. It shows her left side and breast and that's all. The nipple is erect and in sharp focus.

The person is totally unidentifiable except possibly to a very observant lover.

Having such a picture out there carries no shame, at least in my opinion. Others may differ.


----------



## Jellybeans

Maybe it's just me but I find it an odd question to ask how many people someone has slept with on the second or third date, especially after we've already banged.


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> We will agree to disagree.
> 
> I just don't see how someone's past sexual experiences can do ANYTHING but damage. There is NEVER any good that could come of the answer to "how many" or "past sexual experiences" question.
> 
> If you like or love the person....it will hurt (even if the number is low).
> 
> I don't recommend for women to ever answer those questions.....or for men to ask them......unless you want pain.
> 
> Porn/Nudes or STD should be the only concern and something that does matter. Rest.....leave where it belongs, in the past.


It doesn't have to. I knew my x wives past, I know my GF past and I knew the GF before that. Never was an issue and it never made me feel anything but informed which is what I require of anyone I am sharing my life with.

That said its not for everyone. I have a good friend, a woman, who has a high number. She is married to a great guy, I marreid them, but he has no idea about her past. She is embarrassed by it and he never asked so she never volunteered. It seems CRAzY to me that I know something more intimate about his wife than he does but he obviously comfortable with it and that works for them. So long as all couples are on the same page it's all good.


----------



## ConanHub

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe it's just me but I find it an odd question to ask how many people someone has slept with on the second or third date, especially after we've already banged.


Same here. I tried to put myself in the situation and just could not imagine doing it.

When I meet and like someone enough to date I am thinking about exploring their personality and having some fun. Honestly I was thinking about getting in their pants too but all my dating years were from 14 to 20.


----------



## Wolf1974

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe it's just me but I find it an *odd* question to ask how many people someone has slept with on the second or third date, especially after we've already banged.


Well that IS on the second date and after the fact. But if you truly are someone who has a conservative view of sex, like waiting till I a defined relationship, then you aren't doing this on the second date or talking about it after the fact.


----------



## devotion

I've been messaging my girlfriend about this and she told me that if I hadn't brought it up she wouldn't have asked about my past sexual history. I volunteered the information after asking her (and yes, assuming she's telling the truth). 

So I guess what I'm reading is I am actually wrong for asking and caring. Its a flaw. I don't do drugs or overdo alcohol. I have a version of RJ that causes me to obsess about this. Luckily I found a woman that fits my RJ. 

Something I can at least try to teach my kid don't be like daddy in the future!


----------



## ConanHub

Wolf1974 said:


> It doesn't have to. I knew my x wives past, I know my GF past and I knew the GF before that. Never was an issue and it never made me feel anything but informed which is what I require of anyone I am sharing my life with.
> 
> That said its not for everyone. I have a good friend, a woman, who has a high number. She is married to a great guy, I marreid them, but he has no idea about her past. She is embarrassed by it and he never asked so she never volunteered. It seems CRAzY to me that I know something more intimate about his wife than he does but he obviously comfortable with it and that works for them. So long as all couples are on the same page it's all good.


You officiate too? Cool! I have done 3 and have another coming up in April. Sorry for thread jack.


----------



## Jellybeans

Well if there's ever a TAM wedding, we know both Wolf and Conan can officiate. LOL


----------



## ConanHub

devotion said:


> I've been messaging my girlfriend about this and she told me that if I hadn't brought it up she wouldn't have asked about my past sexual history. I volunteered the information after asking her (and yes, assuming she's telling the truth).
> 
> So I guess what I'm reading is I am actually wrong for asking and caring. Its a flaw. I don't do drugs or overdo alcohol. I have a version of RJ that causes me to obsess about this. Luckily I found a woman that fits my RJ.
> 
> Something I can at least try to teach my kid don't be like daddy in the future!


RJ sucks but you sound fine. You were up front and your GF is apparently fine with you. There is nothing wrong with your standards. They are yours.


----------



## Wolf1974

Jellybeans said:


> Well if there's ever a TAM wedding, we know both Wolf and Conan can officiate. LOL


Count me in I love performing weddings especially the non religious types :smthumbup:


----------



## DoF

sidney2718 said:


> Several have said this last. I'm not sure I agree. Info on STD's has to come out, mainly because some are incurable and may be passed on. Genital warts are one example.
> 
> But the porn/nudes bit worries me. If the guy really cares, he needs to ask but in a considerate way. Some otherwise innocent folks have sex movies out there because a former husband or BF took them secretly or promised that they would not be shared. Others have had nude photos taken for totally innocent reasons.
> 
> So it isn't just the fact of porn/nudes that matters, it is also how they came to be as well.
> 
> One of the most beautiful photos I've ever seen was of a woman's breast. She is lying down on sand, probably at a beach. The image was taken from a straight forward ground view. It shows her left side and breast and that's all. The nipple is erect and in sharp focus.
> 
> The person is totally unidentifiable except possibly to a very observant lover.
> 
> Having such a picture out there carries no shame, at least in my opinion. Others may differ.


I see no issues with porn or nudes......but it's something that should not be a surprise down the road.

That's all.


----------



## DoF

Wolf1974 said:


> It doesn't have to. I knew my x wives past, I know my GF past and I knew the GF before that. Never was an issue and it never made me feel anything but informed which is what I require of anyone I am sharing my life with.
> 
> That said its not for everyone. I have a good friend, a woman, who has a high number. She is married to a great guy, I marreid them, but he has no idea about her past. She is embarrassed by it and he never asked so she never volunteered. It seems CRAzY to me that I know something more intimate about his wife than he does but he obviously comfortable with it and that works for them. So long as all couples are on the same page it's all good.


It's better to not ask......and share the info.

I found out the hard way. Again, nothing good can EVER come from the question....or answer. Regardless of the #s etc.


----------



## I Don't Know

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So then why do so many men complain when a woman wants to marry Mr. Nice guy who has a good job, does the dishes and treats her right but is really attracted to Mr. Bad boy? If they are doing the same thing, it's only fair.
> 
> But the definition of a good man is different for everyone. A good man for me wouldn't have the thought that " If a women wants to spread her legs for a ton of men,,, good luck finding a good man to love you PERIOD!!" so I'm good. I don't want that guy anyway.
> 
> I want the good man who knows that women are sexual beings. *Is confident enough in himself not to compare or worry about previous partners*, to not assume a woman is loose or moral-less if she has slept with many people. Who don't buy into the "women are sl*ts, men are players" BS.
> 
> But do make your opinion known right away so that women can decide if you are a good man for them before sleeping with you or wasting time on dates that will go nowhere.


But isn't that confidence misplaced if the guy isn't really all that great? How is one to be confident if they don't really know how good they are, relative to her previous experience? He could be the best for one partner and the worst for another.


----------



## PBear

*Re: Re: Girl doesn't know how many lovers?*



DoF said:


> It's better to not ask......and share the info.
> 
> I found out the hard way. Again, nothing good can EVER come from the question....or answer. Regardless of the #s etc.


Poppyc0ck, imho. My SO and I have shared our sexual history in significant details, and not only has there been no ill effects, we have used it to spice up our sex life. I won't say that everyone should do the same, but I will say that blanket statements like this are not true. 

C


----------



## ConanHub

I Don't Know said:


> But isn't that confidence misplaced if the guy isn't really all that great? How is one to be confident if they don't really know how good they are, relative to her previous experience? He could be the best for one partner and the worst for another.


I am a fantastically good man and my wife had a lot of promiscuity and two marriages before me. I am probably more confident than is safe and I don't try and compare myself to anyone in her past because I KNOW I am better.

We have been together 23 years. If she did have a better lover than I when we first got together, I can 100% guarantee that I am the best she has ever had now.

Practice makes perfect.


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> It's better to not ask......and share the info.
> 
> I found out the hard way. Again, nothing good can EVER come from the question....or answer. Regardless of the #s etc.


For you but I have done so Several times and all with no bad results. 

When I love someone I want to know everything about them this is just all part of that process. Again if you don't want to know then no issue with that for you. I would never be with a woman who couldn't talk about sex past, present and future. It's part of who and what we are and that level of communication = intimacy for me.


----------



## Kylie84

Rep is awfully quiet... I for one am interested in how things have worked out (or not)


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> Are those men even attractive to you? Why would you want to have to hide, sort of, to be with someone like that? Seems like sort of compromising your values to even be with them.


Initially, yes, I found them physically attractive. But over time, these two particular men became unattractive because of their personalities.

I don't consider it 'hiding' - I consider it privacy. To me, as I said before, I don't find discussing past sexual partners/experiences to be helpful or relevant. I have no desire to ask other people about their sexual history, and now, I no longer share mine.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm an introvert. I tend to keep to myself in all areas, not just this.

To me, we live in an age of information entitlement - or as Malcolm Muggeridge said, 'educating ourselves into imbecility'. Many think they deserve to know this or that on demand, and if every single detail isn't handed over, we start labeling people dishonest, manipulative, etc.

I think our expectations are unrealistic - and scary. It's just kind of Borg.

And in terms of 'hiding', we all do. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves. It's part of who we are.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> Initially, yes, I found them physically attractive. But over time, these two particular men became unattractive because of their personalities.
> 
> I don't consider it 'hiding' - I consider it privacy. To me, as I said before, I don't find discussing past sexual partners/experiences to be helpful or relevant. I have no desire to ask other people about their sexual history, and now, I no longer share mine.
> 
> I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm an introvert. I tend to keep to myself in all areas, not just this.
> 
> To me, we live in an age of information entitlement - or as Malcolm Muggeridge said, 'educating ourselves into imbecility'. Many think they deserve to know this or that on demand, and if every single detail isn't handed over, we start labeling people dishonest, manipulative, etc.
> 
> I think our expectations are unrealistic - and scary. It's just kind of Borg.
> 
> And in terms of 'hiding', we all do. We hide from God, we hide from others, and we hide from ourselves. It's part of who we are.


OK. Makes sense. I don't hide though. Yes many run away scared. Their loss.


----------



## jaquen

rep said:


> please allow me to clear a couple things up.
> The sleeping with was my mistake. I don't have a lot of dating exp.
> I was married 17 years and then had a 3 year relationship followed by a 3-4 moth relationship, that it. Ive been with 12 women.
> This women is a lttitle bit of a mystery, very classy etc. She was married for 9 years and had a 3 year relationship. She has been divorced since 2006 and then had the 3 year relationship.
> Everything seemed great. We were watching Spartacus and started making out,,yes we slept together,,after sex,,,still watching Spartacus DVD, I asked bc she was really into the sex,,more so than Im used to. Very expeiernced. When she didn't know her number, I was shocked. My previous women had low numbers and Im not used to a women that has had threesomes and treats sex as men do.
> Certaintly that's the reason I came on here,,,to find out what the hell is going on with todays society,,I feel like Ive been in a vacuum.
> I didn't mean to hurt her or be dis-respectful. I do like to have a women that me, I feel that I can place on a pedestal. I don't think im truly in the minority here. Most men,,I feel prefer a women to not have slept around a lot.
> Thankls


Classy, attractive, and rocks in bed?! Dude cut her loose. I'm sure if you manage to locate your middle aged-child virginal wife, she'll come with all the concomitant baggage such women often do. Sexless marriage for the win!

Meanwhile I'm sure plenty of guys with LD/ND wives on TAM alone would be lining up to be with a woman like this. She's going to do just fine.


----------



## alexm

rep said:


> She was married 9 years and had a 3 year relationship. Been divorced since 2006
> We had sex on 2nd date. On 3rd date we erred watching Spartacus and a sex scene. I asked if she has ever had threesome. She said yes, twice. She explained them.
> It promoted the numbers question.
> She said,,, I don't know, I never kept count. She is an extremely honest person.
> I feel that the number is high and I need to know. Guess it's best to just text and ask and get it over with. If it's high,, I need too move on.
> It's a shame bc I I really do like her


As usual, I am WAY behind, but this post struck me, as well as the many who have said "run!"

I had a similar experience with my wife when we first started dating (not the sex on the second date, though!). The topic came up probably a good 2 months into our relationship, and I got the same general answer "I don't know, mumble mumble mumble"

It bugged me BIG time. Why? Not because it was obviously high, but because she wasn't being honest. I didn't press the issue as hard as one may think, but I did make it very clear to her that I didn't care, at least in the way she thought I might have. Which is mostly true - let me explain:

Had she said something like 7, or 10, right off the bat without thinking, then great. If she said 50, without thinking, then... maybe not so great, but at least honest. If she hmmd and hawed and seemingly pulled a number out of her butt... different story. Same with how she answered this.

It's like playing detective - it's not necessarily the response that matters, it' HOW the response is given.

Frankly, if my wife blurted out "50!", I may have laughed, then perhaps cried, but I don't think it would have made any difference in our relationship, believe it or not. I would not like the answer, but meh, who am I to judge?

The fact that she basically avoided the question irked me to no end. We've been together over 6 years now, and it still bugs me from time to time (RJ, triggers), but not to the extent that I obsess. BUT, yes it does (or has) made me see her in a different, not-so-flattering light. I still have the utmost respect for my wife, and this isn't a marriage-threatening issue in the least.

Point is, if you really like her, don't sweat this. Had I made the snap decision at that time to cut her loose because I didn't like her answer (to which she probably didn't like the question...) who knows where I'd be right now?

It's not an indication of much of anything other than she may have really enjoyed sex in the past, she may have needed the ego boost, she may have had lower self esteem than she does now, whatever. I'm in the 1% of TAMers who don't see past promiscuity as an increased likelihood of cheating. My ex wife had 4 partners before me and cheated all over the place. I didn't see it coming.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Wolf1974 said:


> *For you but I have done so Several times and all with no bad results.
> 
> When I love someone I want to know everything about them this is just all part of that process. Again if you don't want to know then no issue with that for you. I would never be with a woman who couldn't talk about sex past, present and future. It's part of who and what we are and that level of communication = intimacy for me.*


:iagree:

I feel strongly on this too.. just as you described it here.....

Not everyone feels as Dof.. he feels strongly it's always WRONG for anyone to go there......others feel JUST AS STRONGLY it's a part of the getting to KNOW someone process...and finding that true acceptance...it's something we need.. others may not understand it.. but I would hope they can *respect *it none the less...

Although myself & H feel the same about choosing partners who care deeply about the emotional attachment/ long term ideals in intimacy....

We are different in our approach to this....having talked about many scenarios I read here..I have learned *HE is one who WOULDN'T ASK*.....though he probably [email protected]#$.... because had he learned down the line a woman has had One night stands or 3 somes, etc.. he has said he wouldn't then look at her the same way... something would be irrevocably lost. (I understand others will judge this...but again, that's just how he feels, he would not engage in those things, so he would hope his woman felt the same)

His response is...he feels TIME spent, experiences shared would bring these things to light, red flags along the way to how she views sex, her attitudes.. I say that could or could not always be the case!... 

I'm not like him at all... I would need to grace this subject openly.. honesty... if I was to continue in a relationship with someone... I need to feel they can be vulnerable with me.... and I with them.. I feel we can all learn from our experiences, depending and come to a different place..and still be compatible in this moment in time....I would not want to live in "ignorance is bliss"... but rather have the RAW TRUTH of the matter...and work it from there.. no blind siding later on...


----------



## Wolf1974

SimplyAmorous said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I feel strongly on this too.. just as you described it here.....
> 
> Not everyone feels as Dof.. he feels strongly it's always WRONG for anyone to go there......others feel JUST AS STRONGLY it's a part of the getting to KNOW someone process...and finding that true acceptance...it's something we need.. others may not understand it.. but I would hope they can *respect *it none the less...
> 
> Although myself & H feel the same about choosing partners who care deeply about the emotional attachment/ long term ideals in intimacy....
> 
> We are different in our approach to this....having talked about many scenarios I read here..I have learned *HE is one who WOULDN'T ASK*.....though he probably [email protected]#$.... because had he learned down the line a woman has had One night stands or 3 somes, etc.. he has said he wouldn't then look at her the same way... something would be irrevocably lost. (I understand others will judge this...but again, that's just how he feels, he would not engage in those things, so he would hope his woman felt the same)
> 
> His response is...he feels TIME spent, experiences shared would bring these things to light, red flags along the way to how she views sex, her attitudes.. I say that could or could not always be the case!...
> 
> I'm not like him at all... I would need to grace this subject openly.. honesty... if I was to continue in a relationship with someone... I need to feel they can be vulnerable with me.... and I with them.. I feel we can all learn from our experiences, depending and come to a different place..and still be compatible in this moment in time....I would not want to live in "ignorance is bliss"... but rather have the RAW TRUTH of the matter...and work it from there.. no blind siding later on...


While I respect that some people don't want to know about thier partners past I always do find myself curious as to why they don't want to know. Just because you don't know that something happend doesn't erase the fact that it did. It's like living a lie though omission. 

So for a pure example let's suppose that a woman once was involved in the porn industry. Got out, got religion, meets a religious man and then gets married. No talk of the past other than they both had one. Years later, kids, house with fence and two dogs later he finds out and all hell breaks loose. Sexless marriage, both divorce or stay and make each other miserable. 

I look at that as a life wasted. They weren't really compatable but the didnt have open and honest communication in the beginning and now have to pull lives part because of this omission. 

Dunno like I said I can respect people who don't want to know but I couldn't live it.


----------



## EleGirl

Wolf1974 said:


> While I respect that some people don't want to know about thier partners past I always do find myself curious as to why they don't want to know. Just because you don't know that something happend doesn't erase the fact that it did. It's like living a lie though omission.
> 
> So for a pure example let's suppose that a woman once was involved in the porn industry. Got out, got religion, meets a religious man and then gets married. No talk of the past other than they both had one. Years later, kids, house with fence and two dogs later he finds out and all hell breaks loose. Sexless marriage, both divorce or stay and make each other miserable.
> 
> I look at that as a life wasted. They weren't really compatable but the didnt have open and honest communication in the beginning and now have to pull lives part because of this omission.
> 
> Dunno like I said I can respect people who don't want to know but I couldn't live it.


Being in the porn industry is very different than a normal sex life.

I think that things like criminal history, if a person has been in the porn or sex trade / prostitution, CSA are things that absolutely needs to be disclosed. Maybe even if the person was a victim of rape. But by the time a person if 42, like the OP's new gf and married, had a lived in bf, etc they are going to have a few past sex partners.

To ask a person like that how many sex partners they have had makes little sense to some people. So they have had sex. Ok. next question.


----------



## jaquen

What is RJ?


----------



## DoF

SimplyAmorous said:


> We are different in our approach to this....having talked about many scenarios I read here..I have learned *HE is one who WOULDN'T ASK*.....though he probably [email protected]#$.... because had he learned down the line a woman has had One night stands or 3 somes, etc.. he has said he wouldn't then look at her the same way... something would be irrevocably lost. (I understand others will judge this...but again, that's just how he feels, he would not engage in those things, so he would hope his woman felt the same)


I look at above as the validation of level of love he has for you. It's not easy to talk/think about your loved one's sexual past/acts.

Some of you will say that not asking or engaging in such conversations is not healthy aka "I want to know it all". But how exactly does "knowing everything" make your relationship better or stronger? Seriously, I'm not sure I understand how prior sex acts tighten the bond or make the relationship stronger. I find it to be quite opposite.

That hasn't happened in my case at all.

Knowing EVERYTHING about your loved one is a bit of an extreme IMO. 

Again, if some of you like it/don't mind it, I see no problem/whatever floats the boat.


----------



## DoF

Wolf1974 said:


> While I respect that some people don't want to know about thier partners past I always do find myself curious as to why they don't want to know. Just because you don't know that something happend doesn't erase the fact that it did. It's like living a lie though omission.


Because I love my wife so much that it hurts me to think that she has been sexual or intimate with other people.



Wolf1974 said:


> So for a pure example let's suppose that a woman once was involved in the porn industry. Got out, got religion, meets a religious man and then gets married. No talk of the past other than they both had one. Years later, kids, house with fence and two dogs later he finds out and all hell breaks loose. Sexless marriage, both divorce or stay and make each other miserable.


Again, porn/nudes is something that should be shared. Just like STD.



Wolf1974 said:


> Dunno like I said I can respect people who don't want to know but I couldn't live it.


Back when I was a puppy and ignorant, I've asked....and my wife was honest. It made me feel like ****, but I got exactly what I wanted. 

Did it effect my love for her? Maybe a little, but in general not really. Did it make me feel closer or improve our relationship? Absolutely NOT.

IT has only brought pain, to me, but I deserved it.......I should've never asked.


----------



## PBear

*Re: Re: Girl doesn't know how many lovers?*



DoF said:


> Because I love my wife so much that it hurts me to think that she has been sexual or intimate with other people.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, porn/nudes is something that should be shared. Just like STD.
> 
> 
> 
> Back when I was a puppy and ignorant, I've asked....and my wife was honest. It made me feel like ****, but I got exactly what I wanted.
> 
> Did it effect my love for her? Maybe a little, but in general not really. Did it make me feel closer or improve our relationship? Absolutely NOT.
> 
> IT has only brought pain, to me, but I deserved it.......I should've never asked.


You're entitled to your opinion, and it's perfectly valid. FOR YOU. But you make it sound like taking to your partner about their past sex life is the equivalent of signing the divorce papers before getting married. 

C


----------



## DoF

PBear said:


> You're entitled to your opinion, and it's perfectly valid. FOR YOU. But you make it sound like taking to your partner about their past sex life is the equivalent of signing the divorce papers before getting married.
> 
> C


I make it sound = what you perceive it/take it.

That's on you, not me. 

Perhaps it's the communication gap over the internet, but no, I don't feel that way at all. Quite opposite actually.

I know my opinion is strong at times, but I don't believe anything I say is "my way or the highway".

Take it how you want it.


----------



## jaquen

DoF said:


> I make it sound = what you perceive it/take it.
> 
> That's on you, not me.
> 
> Perhaps it's the communication gap over the internet, but no, I don't feel that way at all. Quite opposite actually.
> 
> I know my opinion is strong at times, but I don't believe anything I say is "my way or the highway".
> 
> Take it how you want it.


You do have a tendency to speak in absolutes on TAM. To some extent many of us slip into that talk here and there, but you do couch your advice pretty heavily in absolutist language. And seem genuinely baffled when people have conflicting, but still successful, approaches. 

I don't think it was PBear reading too much into anything.


----------



## devotion

To defend both sides here, we are allowed to have strong opinions and we're on a message forum to share our opinions. I still lean towards the full disclosure option even though it does lead to uncomfortable situations where person did something with an ex but didn't like it and won't do it with you, but you want to do it. (Another long discussion about this on TAM in the past). 

So I'm conflicted. Is ignorance truly bliss though?

PS, RJ is retroactive jealousy. Focusing on past partners (especially thinking of them having sex with your SO) is obviously tough for some people to handle. I am admittedly one of them, too.


----------



## Wolf1974

EleGirl said:


> Being in the porn industry is very different than a normal sex life.
> 
> I think that things like criminal history, if a person has been in the porn or sex trade / prostitution, CSA are things that absolutely needs to be disclosed. Maybe even if the person was a victim of rape. But by the time a person if 42, like the OP's new gf and married, had a lived in bf, etc they are going to have a few past sex partners.
> 
> To ask a person like that how many sex partners they have had makes little sense to some people. So they have had sex. Ok. next question.


For you that may seem way outside the norm but we all have different things we hold as criteria. I wouldn't date someone with prior porn history, criminal records, former cheater, or someone with a high number. Those are my criteria . feel free to date anyone you want with the criteria you hold. You state a NORMAL sex life. Problem is everyone defines normal in thier own way. Someone in the porn industry isn't going to have objections to someone else who also is in the same industry. That would be normal to them. 

Again IF I'm going to spend my life with someone I want to know everything about them. This is just one more thing.


----------



## DoF

jaquen said:


> You do have a tendency to speak in absolutes on TAM. To some extent many of us slip into that talk here and there, but you do couch your advice pretty heavily in absolutist language. And seem genuinely baffled when people have conflicting, but still successful, approaches.
> 
> I don't think it was PBear reading too much into anything.


In that case, I'm sorry, I'm flawed.


----------



## DoF

Wolf1974 said:


> For you that may seem way outside the norm but we all have different things we hold as criteria. I wouldn't date someone with prior porn history, criminal records, former cheater, or someone with a high number. Those are my criteria . feel free to date anyone you want with the criteria you hold. You state a NORMAL sex life. Problem is everyone defines normal in thier own way. Someone in the porn industry isn't going to have objections to someone else who also is in the same industry. That would be normal to them.
> 
> Again IF I'm going to spend my life with someone I want to know everything about them. This is just one more thing.


That's all great.

Thing is, what if the lady simply lies to you about high #? Many know this works against them and prevents them from getting the man they want.



Your marriage can still turn out just fine.


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> I look at above as the validation of level of love he has for you. It's not easy to talk/think about your loved one's sexual past/acts.
> 
> Some of you will say that not asking or engaging in such conversations is not healthy aka "I want to know it all". But how exactly does "knowing everything" make your relationship better or stronger? *Seriously, I'm not sure I understand how prior sex acts tighten the bond or make the relationship stronger. I* find it to be quite opposite.
> 
> That hasn't happened in my case at all.
> 
> Knowing EVERYTHING about your loved one is a bit of an extreme IMO.
> 
> Again, if some of you like it/don't mind it, I see no problem/whatever floats the boat.


Well this is a good question and probably where we have the divide of opinion. To me I establish intimacy by knowing everything about a person I can. If I am to marry and share my life with someone I want to be the person who knows my spouse better than anyone on the planet. Can't do that if thier are things we cant/don't talk about. For me communication is a huge thing in relationships. Having a subject too taboo to talk about wont work for me. Having knowledge that thier are aspects of my spouse I don't know about doesn't work for me either.

I also feel the same in reverse. If for example If was with a woman who would answer these questions but then had no interest in talking about my past, to include sexual, that wouldn't interest me either. 

To me the relevance is less about someone's sexual past and more about establishment of intimacy and open lines of commincation.


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> Because I love my wife so much that it hurts me to think that she has been sexual or intimate with other people.
> 
> but why? You must have known she had been sexual. Did she get into to many details?
> 
> Again, porn/nudes is something that should be shared. Just like STD.
> 
> 
> 
> Back when I was a puppy and ignorant, I've asked....and my wife was honest. It made me feel like ****, but I got exactly what I wanted.
> 
> Did it effect my love for her? Maybe a little, but in general not really. Did it make me feel closer or improve our relationship? Absolutely NOT.
> 
> IT has only brought pain, to me, but I deserved it.......I should've never asked.


well this this about number or did she share with you things she did that troubled you?


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> That's all great.
> 
> Thing is, what if the lady simply lies to you about high #? Many know this works against them and prevents them from getting the man they want.
> 
> 
> 
> Your marriage can still turn out just fine.


But again in my example what happens if down the road the spouse finds out. Unless it's a huge lie like she said she had been with 2 and find out it was 200 then it's less about the number deviation and more of the fact that she willfully lied about it. Just no need for that. Seems like truth is one of those things that always eventually comes out


----------



## Wolf1974

devotion said:


> To defend both sides here, we are allowed to have strong opinions and we're on a message forum to share our opinions. I still lean towards the full disclosure option even though it does lead to uncomfortable situations where person did something with an ex but didn't like it and won't do it with you, but you want to do it. (Another long discussion about this on TAM in the past).
> 
> So I'm conflicted. Is ignorance truly bliss though?
> 
> PS, RJ is retroactive jealousy. Focusing on past partners (especially thinking of them having sex with your SO) is obviously tough for some people to handle. I am admittedly one of them, too.


I can agree with this, if you have RJ and are hurt with too much knowledge maybe it is better to never ask and never tell. Never thought of it that way cause I don't work that way. I don't dwell on my GFs past just needed an overview of what happened. She is the same with me and then we press forward.


----------



## I Don't Know

Porn isn't different than any other criteria it's just where more people would draw their line. Criminal history? If it's in the past, and I'm not going to do anything like it again, why does it matter if I shoplifted 22 years ago? Why is that line in the sand ok, but saying I don't want to be with someone who took on 2 or 3 guys at once is caveman thinking.? If the porn star had sex with 30 guys between on and off camera, is she worse than a woman who had sex with 30 guys she met at the club?


----------



## 2ntnuf

I Don't Know said:


> Porn isn't different than any other criteria it's just where more people would draw their line. Criminal history? If it's in the past, and I'm not going to do anything like it again, why does it matter if I shoplifted 22 years ago? Why is that line in the sand ok, but saying I don't want to be with someone who took on 2 or 3 guys at once is caveman thinking.? If the porn star had sex with 30 guys between on and off camera, is she worse than a woman who had sex with 30 guys she met at the club?


These are great questions. I don't want to speak for anyone. I will give my thoughts. Nothing is unimportant to the individual in the potential relationship. It's one of the criteria for considering that person a potential. If they ask too many questions and you don't like it, you know they aren't for you. Someone else will believe differently. These things that are left unsaid when one wants to know, are dangerous. If someone doesn't ask because it might offend someone, they end up with burning curiosity which easily could turn into a broken relationship when parts of these "secrets" come out in the future. And they will come out, in most cases. Someone will open their mouth. I think it's best to be prepared. I could have accepted what happened with us, and did for the most part. Because x2 did not trust me enough to tell me at least enough that I understood who she was, I felt betrayed, disrespected, and untrustworthy. Those led to a spiral of how I felt about her in all areas, and in our case, affected my sexual desire for her and finally our marriage. This is not the only thing. I don't claim it as the panacea to fix my marriage before we were divorced. I do consider it to be a huge obstacle. The numbers weren't as important as the trust and respect, and by default how much I believed she loved me, if she could not trust me.


----------



## ConanHub

I Don't Know said:


> Porn isn't different than any other criteria it's just where more people would draw their line. Criminal history? If it's in the past, and I'm not going to do anything like it again, why does it matter if I shoplifted 22 years ago? Why is that line in the sand ok, but saying I don't want to be with someone who took on 2 or 3 guys at once is caveman thinking.? If the porn star had sex with 30 guys between on and off camera, is she worse than a woman who had sex with 30 guys she met at the club?


Yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

The only scary part about the porn thing is, how broken is she to have done these things? Now, there may be good reason. It may even be similar to the reasons someone the same age would have the same numbers, assuming they are the same age. Did the woman/man in porn have counseling to understand and change their thinking? 

Worse? Better? That all depends on the reasons in each case. So, I guess, if one is really serious about considering someone for a long-term committed, monogamous relationship, some open and honest communication would be essential. Acceptance and an understanding that some issues might crop up from time to time would seem essential, as well. That's a tough one. In one sense, it seems like life could be lots 'o fun, but then most of life is about living it, not sex, so stability would be quite important.


----------



## DoF

Wolf1974 said:


> Well this is a good question and probably where we have the divide of opinion. To me I establish intimacy by knowing everything about a person I can. If I am to marry and share my life with someone I want to be the person who knows my spouse better than anyone on the planet.


Agreed, but you can still do that with TIME SPENT. Knowing every single detail about the person is a bit extreme IMO.

For example, are you going to ask her if she picked her nose when she was a kid....or how many times she crapped her pants etc?

Some details are better left unknown is what I'm trying to say.

If you invest time with someone, you WILL know them better than anyone by default.



Wolf1974 said:


> Can't do that if thier are things we cant/don't talk about.


There will ALWAYS be things you don't know about your loved one. There is no perfection.



Wolf1974 said:


> For me communication is a huge thing in relationships. Having a subject too taboo to talk about wont work for me. Having knowledge that thier are aspects of my spouse I don't know about doesn't work for me either.


It's safe to assume above will always be the case. But correct, communication is important. But to share every little detail and EVERYTHING? That's a bit extreme IMO.



Wolf1974 said:


> I also feel the same in reverse. If for example If was with a woman who would answer these questions but then had no interest in talking about my past, to include sexual, that wouldn't interest me either.


Nothing wrong with that, your requirements/desires are important.



Wolf1974 said:


> To me the relevance is less about someone's sexual past and more about establishment of intimacy and open lines of commincation.


That's important, I agree but Sexual past is a bit personal and counterproductive towards forming a bond.

Listening to someone tell me how much they got banged up does not form a deeper bond (to me).

If it does for you, more power to you.


----------



## I Don't Know

ConanHub said:


> Yes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she's worse?


----------



## I Don't Know

2ntnuf said:


> The only scary part about the porn thing is, how broken is she to have done these things? Now, there may be good reason. It may even be similar to the reasons someone the same age would have the same numbers, assuming they are the same age. Did the woman/man in porn have counseling to understand and change their thinking?
> 
> Worse? Better? That all depends on the reasons in each case. So, I guess, if one is really serious about considering someone for a long-term committed, monogamous relationship, some open and honest communication would be essential. Acceptance and an understanding that some issues might crop up from time to time would seem essential, as well. That's a tough one. In one sense, it seems like life could be lots 'o fun, but then most of life is about living it, not sex, so stability would be quite important.


Yes, having some psychological problems is (I would think) very likely for someone in the porn industry, but I also think the same types of problems lead to promiscuity in general. So, in my questions, I'm assuming like circumstances for each. Each will stop their prior behavior and be faithful, etc.

I just find it funny that "the past is the past, and it has nothing to do with you" only seems to extend to unpaid for sex. Prior porn, crimes, prostitution, drug use, alcohol use, and if you punched a girl in 3rd grade can all be a reflection on who you are as a person and should be brought forth at the first reasonable opportunity. But installing a revolving door on their college dorm room is "NOT YOUR BUSINESS!"

Also just want to add, because if I don't someone is going to freak out that I'm generalizing.... I'm not saying everyone who has a lot of sex with a lot of people is damaged, but with SOME people it does stem from somewhere.


----------



## PBear

*Re: Re: Girl doesn't know how many lovers?*



jaquen said:


> You do have a tendency to speak in absolutes on TAM. To some extent many of us slip into that talk here and there, but you do couch your advice pretty heavily in absolutist language. And seem genuinely baffled when people have conflicting, but still successful, approaches.
> 
> I don't think it was PBear reading too much into anything.


This is what I was referring to. I often agree with your opinions, but you often do speak in absolutes. No worries, carry on. 

C


----------



## 2ntnuf

I Don't Know said:


> Yes, having some psychological problems is (I would think) very likely for someone in the porn industry, but I also think the same types of problems lead to promiscuity in general. So, in my questions, I'm assuming like circumstances for each. Each will stop their prior behavior and be faithful, etc.
> 
> I just find it funny that "the past is the past, and it has nothing to do with you" only seems to extend to unpaid for sex. Prior porn, crimes, prostitution, drug use, alcohol use, and if you punched a girl in 3rd grade can all be a reflection on who you are as a person and should be brought forth at the first reasonable opportunity. But installing a revolving door on their college dorm room is "NOT YOUR BUSINESS!"
> 
> Also just want to add, because if I don't someone is going to freak out that I'm generalizing.... I'm not saying everyone who has a lot of sex with a lot of people is damaged, but with SOME people it does stem from somewhere.


Oh, I got it now.

ETA: What's weird is, it just occurred to me that those things you list seem to be a more modern way of looking at things. On the other hand, "a lady never talks about her conquests", seems to come into play here. It's sort of like the only difference between a lady and a tramp is whether or not her sex life is talked about? I suppose that is true, but it seems so old fashioned. I guess I don't really understand because the guys who don't talk about it with others all talk to each other and the only ones who know seem to be the women. So, it's okay if women talk about the men they have slept with, as long as they don't tell anyone outside of their circle of social status. The men remain ignorant. "Ignorance is bliss"?

ETA: Does that seem controlling? Something isn't settling well with me, about that.


----------



## Wolf1974

DoF said:


> Agreed, but you can still do that with TIME SPENT. Knowing every single detail about the person is a bit extreme IMO.
> 
> *For example, are you going to ask her if she picked her nose when she was a kid....or how many times she crapped her pants etc?
> *
> Some details are better left unknown is what I'm trying to say.
> 
> If you invest time with someone, you WILL know them better than anyone by default.
> 
> 
> There will ALWAYS be things you don't know about your loved one. There is no perfection.
> 
> 
> 
> It's safe to assume above will always be the case. But correct, communication is important. But to share every little detail and EVERYTHING? That's a bit extreme IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, your requirements/desires are important.
> 
> 
> 
> That's important, I agree but Sexual past is a bit personal and counterproductive towards forming a bond.
> 
> Listening to someone tell me how much they got banged up does not form a deeper bond (to me).
> 
> If it does for you, more power to you.


Well of course we use some common sense, we can't know every single detail. However we determine what things we do want to know about a person. I would like to Know about thier time in school. Was a big part of their life, but do I need to know what they wore on Thursday in 1985 ........no.

So a sexual history is relevant to me. My standard questions are: how many partners do you have, ever any STDs, any regrets or things off the table as far as sex goes and so on. Basic and simple questions. 

I don't want to know what was her favorite position with her first boyfriend. Those are details I don't need.


----------



## jaquen

devotion said:


> PS, RJ is retroactive jealousy. Focusing on past partners (especially thinking of them having sex with your SO) is obviously tough for some people to handle. I am admittedly one of them, too.



AH, ok. I don't have that, but my wife does. She cringes whenever a female from my past is mentioned, even though she's known me long before we got together. In fact my wife likes to think of us as having always been together, well since high school, which I find both wacko and incredibly endearing, and I tell her as much to her face. :rofl:


----------



## Openminded

For those who need to ask the question -- just remember that women know they often are judged. That doesn't bother some women but it does others. So while you can certainly ask the question, it isn't necessarily a good idea to rely on the answer.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

DoF said:


> I look at above as the validation of level of love he has for you. It's not easy to talk/think about your loved one's sexual past/acts.
> 
> Some of you will say that not asking or engaging in such conversations is not healthy aka "I want to know it all". But how exactly does "knowing everything" make your relationship better or stronger? Seriously, I'm not sure I understand how prior sex acts tighten the bond or make the relationship stronger. I find it to be quite opposite.
> 
> That hasn't happened in my case at all.
> 
> Knowing EVERYTHING about your loved one is a bit of an extreme IMO.
> 
> Again, if some of you like it/don't mind it, I see no problem/whatever floats the boat.


Yes...we're all a little extreme in some ways, that's what makes us unique.. that others feel as myself shows I am not crazy/out in left field ... but worthy of understanding... .. 

Husband may not be the type who would ask (similar to many here) but he's always entertained me with his honesty, he opens himself to all I seek.....he's not against sharing to the depths...if I caused grief over this... however....his attitude would be... YOU ASKED WOMAN [email protected]#$ 

God bless him.....now that I can deal with *From our end....we shouldn't ask what we can't handle.. this is something to work out 1st .*

I would be far more set off by someone's "*it's none of your business*" mantra thrown at me.. with a







glare....if the conversation went this direction... I'd feel shut down.."no access" road blocks put up....

Now I could understand someone being emotionally hesitant ...and on this end...we need to be sensitive.....but in doing so, I'd also HOPE they would be willing to open up more so once we got to know each other better.. is this not reasonable? 

I understand many people have had bad things happen in relationships.. which caused them, over the years to be more guarded... less vulnerable.....or maybe I don't understand.. but that doesn't mean I would be one of those people adding to their pain..... I would want the benefit of the doubt if we felt we had something... so long as you aren't a serial killer...I don't see the "mountain" this is...

If you know what you have to offer, confident in yourself...you are a viable loving honest person seeking something long term...it's a worthy discussion.. it also shows trust..and if they couldn't handle it /if the sexual views are just not in sync.... it's best to Learn this early on.. and go our separate ways...

People unload their guts HERE all the time...I just think that sort of sharing should be a given...with someone we seek connection with...


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## EleGirl

I Don't Know said:


> Porn isn't different than any other criteria it's just where more people would draw their line. *Criminal history?* If it's in the past, and I'm not going to do anything like it again, why does it matter if I shoplifted 22 years ago? Why is that line in the sand ok, but saying I don't want to be with someone who took on 2 or 3 guys at once is caveman thinking.? If the porn star had sex with 30 guys between on and off camera, is she worse than a woman who had sex with 30 guys she met at the club?


There are different levels of criminal history. Shoplifting once 20years ago.. meh... 


But there are serious crimes that can be a big issue. For example a women with children should know if she's with a guy who is a convicted child molester.

How about someone who spent 15 years for murder? rape? assaults. Some of us don't want to be involved with people who manufacture, sell and/or use illegal drugs.


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## EleGirl

I think that the bottom line is, don't lead someone on and make them think that you accept them as they are, no questions asked. Get into the relationship and start having sex with them.

And THEN pop your list of questions to find out if they are someone you actually want a relationship with.

Do it up front. Be honest with people you date.


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## Vega

EleGirl said:


> Do it up front. Be honest with people you *date*.


Lately I've been taking a different approach to this whole "dating" thing. I'm starting to develop the principle of getting to know someone well enough to decide *IF* I'd even want to date them. And I don't mean getting to know them for a few hours, days or even weeks. I'm talking about getting to know their character before agreeing to go on a date with them. 

There's a lot to be said about being 'friends first'. Seems that it would save a lot of heartache on BOTH sides of the equation.


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## EleGirl

Vega said:


> Lately I've been taking a different approach to this whole "dating" thing. I'm starting to develop the principle of getting to know someone well enough to decide *IF* I'd even want to date them. And I don't mean getting to know them for a few hours, days or even weeks. I'm talking about getting to know their character before agreeing to go on a date with them.
> 
> There's a lot to be said about being 'friends first'. Seems that it would save a lot of heartache on BOTH sides of the equation.


How do you meet people and then do this "screening"? Are these people you meet at work? socially?

I agree with your approach. While meeting people on line is ok for an introduction, it's not enough to know who the person is. At least that's my take on it.


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## larry.gray

sidney2718 said:


> But the porn/nudes bit worries me. If the guy really cares, he needs to ask but in a considerate way. Some otherwise innocent folks have sex movies out there because a former husband or BF took them secretly or promised that they would not be shared. Others have had nude photos taken for totally innocent reasons.


That's going to become irrelevant for two reasons:

Firstly is the fact that some level of partner porn is becoming the norm. If you talk to the college age crowd, more are doing than are refraining. Having it known by others is becoming less of a scandalous concern. 

Second is the sheer volume of armature work available. Between accidental releases, hacking, sharing by jerk sex partners and revenge porn, the images number in the multiple billions. There is just so much out there that even if a nude goes wild, the chances of seeing somebody you know is vanishingly small. This of course can be negated by a target release of revenge porn via social media to people known by the victim.


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## devotion

EleGirl said:


> I think that the bottom line is, don't lead someone on and make them think that you accept them as they are, no questions asked. Get into the relationship and start having sex with them.
> 
> And THEN pop your list of questions to find out if they are someone you actually want a relationship with.
> 
> Do it up front. Be honest with people you date.


Hmm, what if casual sex is OK and you don't care about the numbers for someone you want to just have sex with, but for a long term partner, you want someone with a 'low' number? 

Let's say for example you have a 'range' that's acceptable and adding 1 more doesn't affect, but if you find out its hundreds others, that changes your impression of the other person. 

You were fine being another notch in their bedpost (and correspondingly increasing your own count), but you don't want to be one of hundreds. 

What's wrong with that? What's wrong with deciding for a long term relationship that this is a deal breaker? You don't find out everything about a person up front, it takes time to develop and figure out.


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## I Don't Know

EleGirl said:


> There are different levels of criminal history. Shoplifting once 20years ago.. meh...
> 
> 
> But there are serious crimes that can be a big issue. For example a women with children should know if she's with a guy who is a convicted child molester.
> 
> How about someone who spent 15 years for murder? rape? assaults. Some of us don't want to be involved with people who manufacture, sell and/or use illegal drugs.


That's true and I have no love for a child molester or rapist, but the argument can still be "if it's in the past it doesn't matter. I'm not the same person now I was then." And there are different levels of "normal" sexual experience as well. And where every individual draws their line will be different. One person might not care that their partner was hooked on pain killers but draw the line at meth. Another might not even be ok with casual pot use. 



EleGirl said:


> I think that the bottom line is, don't lead someone on and make them think that you accept them as they are, no questions asked. Get into the relationship and start having sex with them.
> 
> And THEN pop your list of questions to find out if they are someone you actually want a relationship with.
> 
> Do it up front. Be honest with people you date.


Fair enough, but sometimes you don't know what your questions are. For example I have been in three serious relationships. before I met my wife. In each one although I had RJ it was minimal and I had no idea what it was even called. It was limited to one or two specific things and I didn't obsess or dwell, they just bothered me for a while and I got over it. I don't remember ever asking about numbers, details, or sizes of previous partners.

I had no idea things were going to bother me this bad. I think it's understandable that I didn't think it would be a big issue now either. 

1. I was in my early to mid 20's before. Looking back I thought it was just being young that caused me to be bothered by past sex acts. I'm 40 now. 38 when I met her. I really didn't think it was going to be an issue at this age.

2. I don't hold any moral judgments against people for their sex life. I don't think anyone is a "bad person" because they did this or that. I guess there is an exception and that would be a gang bang type situation, although I wouldn't say that makes them a bad person, I do feel bad for a girl that would do that.

3. It didn't bother me at first. When I first met my wife, I was turned on hearing about her sexual experiences. That she had squirted before. That she had used toys. That she could get so turned on she could cum as soon as she was penetrated. That she liked sex to hurt a little bit. All of that was all fun and exciting in the getting to know you phase. Later, AFTER I fell in love with her, these things started bothering me. Who did that? Why did that happen with him but not me? Why doesn't she want to use toys with me, but she did with him? Was she more attracted to so and so? How do I compare in size and skill?

It blind sided me. The intensity of the feelings were nothing I expected. The inability to let it roll off relatively quickly. The inability to not bring it up. The fact that it seems to be done and then pops up worse than before. That's all new to me.


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## EleGirl

I Don't Know said:


> That's true and I have no love for a child molester or rapist, but the argument can still be "if it's in the past it doesn't matter. I'm not the same person now I was then."


It's become pretty clear that child molesters and pedophiles don't change. They are very broken people. A small percentage can learn to control their urges and how they deal with them. 

Like all of this, it comes down to personal choice. I personally have no desire at all to deal with a person with these types of issues. I could not respect or love as a mate a person who has ever molested/assaulted a child. The same goes for a person who has raped an adult.



I Don't Know said:


> And there are different levels of "normal" sexual experience as well. And where every individual draws their line will be different. One person might not care that their partner was hooked on pain killers but draw the line at meth. Another might not even be ok with casual pot use.


That's the point, isn't it? Each person has their limits of what they will deal with. And they should be upfront about it pretty early on if they are looking for someone to have a relationship with. Don't lead someone to think that they are accepted as they are with no questions asked. Get them hooked into a relationship and then start the questioning.

The OP is looking for someone to marry. So what did he do? He had sex on the second date. Then on the 3rd date asked her how many men she's had sex with because it's important to him.


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## EleGirl

I Don't Know said:


> Fair enough, but sometimes you don't know what your questions are.


Yes, it takes all of us time to learn about what is important to us.

The OP is in his 40's. He knew going into this relationship what is important to him. That's the point.


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## 2ntnuf

So, tell me Ele. You write about what is happening here. He wants to be married and he is rushing it. Do you believe that once they had sex, there was a bond created that made it more difficult to make a clear decision about whether they were right for each other long-term?

And, who do you know that is a child-molester or rapist, that wants to date you? Are you going through turmoil over some guy you are interested in and you can't reconcile your attraction with your boundaries?


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## I Don't Know

EleGirl said:


> Yes, it takes all of us time to learn about what is important to us.
> 
> The OP is in his 40's. He knew going into this relationship what is important to him. That's the point.


I agree with that. And it doesn't sound like the OP is having RJ. It's all about the numbers and what he infers about this woman based on her number.

I got a bit off topic and broadened my reply to the past in general. Oops.

If number is important to him, he should bring it up early and then decide how to procede.


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## 2ntnuf

Is it normal for a child molester/rapist to want to date? Is it normal for them to have feelings of love for a woman? How can one tell that a person is a child molester/rapist? Do you do a background search? Do you talk with their previous partners? Do they say things that pique your interest and send up red flags all over? What are those flags? 

Seems like this would be extremely important to figuring out who is best to date and have a relationship with, long before sex.


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## 2ntnuf

Why did this thread go silent? You could hear a pin drop in here.


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## lenzi

That's because no one is actually speaking.


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## 2ntnuf

No kidding? Gee you're smart.


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