# Marriage heading south



## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hey all, First Post so go easy on me...
My wife (32) and i (33) have been married for 8 years now, we have two kids (7 & 5). About 4 years ago we went through a bad patch as she had been confiding in another guy no physical affair emotional only. It was deep, im talking creating seperate social media accounts, email addresses etc. I came across the affair on her phone as a text and i confronted her about it and spoke to the OM and basically told him i would break his neck if he interfered again.
Coming out of that bad spell i obviously had trust issues and i asked her to be totally transparent with phones, emails, social media accounts but that never really happened to the degree i had hoped, from then until now we have grown apart.
So fast track to today, i still dont trust her fully and we had a talk last night about our marriage and we both agreed that something needs to change. We havent had sex in 3 years, we sleep in seperate rooms (originally due to problems with youngest one sleeping but has just become the norm), we no longer Kiss, cuddle, hold hands when out or even communicate unless we need to. When we are in company we are like best friends and we can still have a laugh and we act like there is nothing wrong.

I asked her if she would consider Counselling as i said i would happily lay whatever money it was going to take to try and improve our marriage. She doesnt want to speak to anyone else about it but seems to have got it into her head that we will end up seperating anyways.
I was quite firm but cool with her last night and said that for the kids sake i would try anything, cannot imagine life without the kids daily.

We have spoken today and both agreed that for once that the conversation we had last night is the most we have spoke without conflict.

Problem is where to go from here?? Please Help


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Does she want to try to make it work?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Right now, if you have a bad marriage, she has no reason to be a trustworthy, transparent wife.


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

I believe she does want to make things better but doesn't want toake the effort and probably knows it's going to be a long haul....


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

It's the easiest think to sit back and do nothing, and watch the marriage gradually deteriorate.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

There are things you could explore and participate in. Books, programs, MC, and the last ditch relationship programs. If you want I could list them. You could use the knowledge you find there to help yourselves and see where it goes, even on your own. But in the end you need professional help and her cooperation. You might phrase it to her by saying let's do this one last time, before we call it quits. At least say you tried to yourselves and your children. Thoughts?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If you want your marriage back, you can't really focus on the lack of trust or the affair.

You should focus on making the marriage something she would want to return to.

The answer to your question is to start courting her, start meeting her needs, start doing things together, start planning fun things...


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, we identified we need to communicate more, we've been leading seperate lives under the same roof for years and the ways have stuck. I take on board all you said Hick, starting dating again is something we need to work on, it's going to be strange at first! Thanks


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

TheLongOne said:


> ...My wife (32)...no physical affair emotional only. ...i asked her to be totally transparent with phones, emails, social media accounts but that never really happened to the degree i had hoped, from then until now we have grown apart....She doesnt want to speak to anyone else about it but seems to have got it into her head that we will end up seperating anyways....


She had an EA and was hardly forth coming about it. You had to shut the guy down, and she never really gave you any hope after that.

It doesn't sound like she's into you at all. No sex for years? Separate beds? Your marriage is on life support, and when she says she's not interested in getting help, she means she no longer cares if the marriage survives.

Unfortunately, you CANNOT save a marriage on your own. You have to do it as a team or it just don't work. Listen to what anchorwatch suggested about, because that would be a good way to approach it.

Still, you have to think this over long and hard for your own sake. If you are going to be dragging her feet the whole way, is it worth saving? Judge her efforts to salvage this relationship, but also know when she's not helping with the repairs.

It sounds like there was possibly some rug-sweeping of her past affair, and this created a huge rift. If she didn't try to help you heal, she probably checked out 4 years ago.

Good luck, buddy. It's not looking that good, but more details would help. How much exposure occurred after her affair?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it's going to work then both of you have to want it to work and if she's not on board and doesn't want to give it her best shot, then IMO it's a waste of time and money.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't agree that she has to be on board for you to try.
You may not be successful, but there are many things in life you can try with no guarantees of success. If her life improves becuase of your actions, the likelihood of her getting on board increases dramatically.

If she is telling you no matter what it can't work out, no way no how, etc. That is a different story. If she is ambivelant, and you are living together, you have an opportunity to try. 

If it's going to be, it starts with me.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree with Hicks. You can do something on your own to jump start this.

Here, take a look at these to get an idea how.

His Needs, Her Needs by Willard F. Jr. Harley

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html

"Married Man Sex Life Primer" by A. Kay


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Ok guys thanks, she claims that before the EA she was unhappy, I kinda dismissed that as we were still close then and if that was the case she certainly didn't make it known she was unhappy.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Firstly you can't fix the relationship by yourself, trust me I tried for several years. However, you stated communication as an issue, this is something you can work on now. This will be helpful to you regardless if you stay married or move on to another relationship, good communication skills are a must. The list of reading material that Anchorwatched recommended is a great place to start. You need to look very hard at your short comings and fix them. This makes a better you, no matter what happens to the relationship.

I have concerns that the EA never ended, but went underground, especially if you don't have access to media, devices and passwords. Her refusal to attend counseling is another red flag that concerns me. What have you done to ensure that it really stopped? Finally, contempt breads contempt. Since the EA was swept under the rug and not dealt with to mend both of you, the relationship has been on a slow downward spiral. I believe that most relationships can be fixed, if both parties put in the work to fix the problems.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

VFW said:


> I have concerns that the EA never ended, but went underground, especially if you don't have access to media, devices and passwords. Her refusal to attend counseling is another red flag that concerns me. What have you done to ensure that it really stopped?


Was my first reaction, too, given her attitude. Either old EA still lingers, or a new one has popped up and is in her way to feeling good about trying to rekindle the marriage.

No way do I agree that working on it by yourself is worthwhile, not after putting it all on the table and jointly acknowledging something's gotta change. Her interpretation: YOU have to change, I am just fine like I am. Not good enough, especially after she had an A. You cannot nice your way into her caring again or respecting you. from the little you described, she seems to have neither.

You made it clear you do not want to split? And she flipped you the proverbial bird in response?

Go directly to The 180, and file for D and start the ball rolling, only stopping the process if she makes a commitment to trying -- and acts on it. She either will wake up and see her life about to change drastically, or she will just allow it to happen. And if she allows it, you should then carry on through and not look back.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

People, with all due respect, we are talking MMSLP and NMMNG and the like to a couple who haven't slept on the same bed for 3 years? 

It's like being stuck in a life raft in the middle of the ocean with a crate of canned food and no opener, and all of a sudden you get an opener. Awesome - but you're still in the middle of the ocean.

First ascertain whether you're still dealing with an EA or worse. Key logger , VAR, PI... Cell phone detectors, vehicle trackers... Home monitoring systems... 

If you're not, then offer heavy duty long term counseling or else.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You and your old lady need to think about what kind of example you are showing the kids. I mean these two kids actually think this how it works and will bring it with them as young adults. 

My point....sh1t or get off the pot.....maybe daddy can find someone that wants to be with him and maybe witness a healthy relationship. And I hope its your current wife, but she has to be on board. 

That's my $0.02


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Of course they need the guidance of a good MC/IC, John. Reading a few books won't cure their ailments, but the insight they may gain from reading might open their eyes to what can be. We all have to start somewhere.


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks again folks, this is all great info and guidance and somewhat gives me strength and direction.

It has been months since I checked or snooped at her phone/ emails. I do not have access to them at all, iPhone 5s with finger scanner. We no longer use laptops only for my work so how can I really check if the EA is still an issue or active?

I don't want to approach her about it as I don't want to rock the boat even further unless I was absolutely sure and had hard evidence something was going on.

We spoke all night last night on the couch and ended up with a hug and kiss. Felt reassuring but we've been here before whilst everything is still smoking hot!

So apart from attempting to get into her emails or tracking the car (which seems a bit too far) what can I do?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You currently don't have a marriage. Proving "cheating" is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. If you have no romantic or sexual connection with your wife, you should assume that she is getting her romantic and sexual needs met somehow.

If this is something you want, sometimes you have to take a chance and bet on yourself. In other words, step up and try to rebuild the connection with your wife. Look hard within yourself and decide that you are going to have a fulfilling marriage to a woman. And your current wife is getting the first shot. There are no guaranteed outcomes. Maybe you will find out she is cheating. Maybe she is in love with someone else. Mabye none of that is true but for some other reason she can never return to your fold. Point is, you should look at this as a process. And part of the process is for you to figure out whether if you improve YOUR side of the equation, does your wife respond by becoming more interested and involved in the marriage. And as you see that progressing, you can start attaching condtions to it such as I need to have access to your phone. If you put all the conditions on things now, she will not open her mind and heart to a rebuilding process.


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hicks thanks for your time and support, I hear what you are saying and obviously it would be counter productive if she is still having an EA with someone else. 
As much as I want to to demand she opens up her phone, emails etc I think at this point she would withdraw further.
The other night I got my point across and was firm about the affect on the kids and that we should at least try and make things better for their sake.
We have since had a night on the couch and had a casual chat so I feel somewhat hopeful.
As the days and weeks roll on I would like to put some more pressure on such as moving the kids into the same bed and she moved back into our room. That I think will bridge a massive gap where we apart on a daily basis.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

what is the risk if she withdraws further. You basically live separate lives now.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Do not pressure her.
Invite her. Let her choose. Don't get emtional if she rejects you. But be persistant.


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## TheLongOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Ok so a small development yesterday, spoke to her again about councilling and she agreed to goto councilling with me "to prove there isn't anything going on" I said that would be a waste of time and money and that the main objective should be to repair our marriage for the kids sake....we haven't really spoke since.

I'm willing to throw as much money on the table as it takes but do you think I am wasting my time here????

Regards


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Since you're not both living in a loving marriage, it's obvious there is something going on. What could it be? Is it that she has feelings for someone else? Did she lose those feelings for you back during the EA, and can't or won't get them back? Is no one else in the picture and she is just resentful towards you? Neither of you has been able to fix whatever it is so far. I would go to counseling, and just get all the issues out on the table. Then if even with guidance, if the two of you can't solve it and get to a place where you're both can be happy in the M, then consider the next step. That would ease my conscious more, to do what has to be done.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

TheLongOne said:


> Ok so a small development yesterday, spoke to her again about councilling and she agreed to goto councilling with me "to prove there isn't anything going on" I said that would be a waste of time and money and that the main objective should be to repair our marriage for the kids sake....we haven't really spoke since.
> 
> I'm willing to throw as much money on the table as it takes but do you think I am wasting my time here????
> 
> Regards


Three years with no sex when your old lady should be at her peak lifetime sex drive. How likely is that?

Does she work? 

Who was the OM?

Anyway they could get together for real?

The vast majority of guys never turn down offered sex. Is she very unattractive?

How about you? Do women hit on you often? Give you the eye? You should be at your maximum lifetime ability to pull women, right about now.

No need to spend any counseling money if you don't have access to her phone or PC. No phone access? 

Go to Divorce. Go directly to Divorce. Do not pass Go. Do not collect MC.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Number one you must sleep in the same bed. 

Fix that immediately.

Then transparency . Give her your passwords and require the same.

You need action, not talk.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Take some of that money and hire a PI.

If there is a 3rd party in this marraiage, all the counseling money can buy won't mean sh1t!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

If she's got nothing to hide, giving you access is no big deal. If she throws the "you don't trust me" line out, it's classic... and she,s earned it... and there's the reality if current state of this "marriage", so yeah, you don't trust her. 

If she does have something to hide, then yeah, proceed to her "withdrawing" (btw, withdraw from what? a sexless, bare-bones mariage of convenience?) and you withdraw, too. Completely and legally.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

How do you not have sex from 30 to 33?!! And her from 29-32?!! 

I don't believe her, and with all due respect, it's also hard to believe you in this context.

Did the 2 of you always have almost ZERO drive? This is not normal for your age.


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