# Probably a common problem but I just have to write about it



## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

First off, from reading these forums, I believe this problem of mine is not uncommon.

My wife and I have been married for slightly over 3 years now, and we've known each other for 8. We seriously dated each other for 2 before making our vows. I am 30 this year, and she is 28.

Anyhow, she was never interested in sex. And by never, I literally mean *never* - not in any of the 8 years we knew each other. She was brought up in a traditional family who (according to her) taught her that sex was "dirty". Before we made our vows, we had some talk about this, but she just shrugged it off and said it would come "naturally". Me being the naive Joe that I was in my mid twenties, just took that as a matter-of-fact.

So now 3 years into our marriage, the number of times we actually _attempted_ sex can be counted on one hand. Of which all of them, she did it very reluctantly, so it was never really truly making love for me.

She was a home maker during the 3 years, but recently, she started doing her second degree, and things have just gotten way worse. Previously, at least she would hold hands, and we would hug each other. But now she's not even keen on those.

We've had several heart-to-heart talks (not in an argumentative manner) on this issue, and I proposed visiting a marriage counsellor and/or sex therapist, but she refuses to do so because she thinks it's a "waste of time" and is "happy with the way things are". Yesterday, she suggested that why not I go out and look for a "f*ck-buddy", to which I just calmly replied: "The point of sex in a marriage is for emotional bonding, and a f*ck buddy does nothing in that aspect".

One thing for sure is that she is definitely not having an extra-marital affair. This I am absolutely sure of. 

I really love, care and respect her, so I'm deeply disturbed by this, to the fact that it is affecting my daily emotional well being at work. Have I married a nun? Am I truly boned and should get out of this while I am still (relatively) young? Would visiting a counsellor by myself be of any use?

Any advice would be helpful...

Thanks.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Ugh--she told you to get a f*ck buddy? Here are some things you can try;

Give her a slow, sensual massage with scented oil. Do this again a day or two later and then zero in on the private parts once she is relaxed.

Suggest she learn about her body. If she has never masturbated, she does not know the pleasure of an orgasm.

Take a bath with her. Touch her gently to arouse her.

Explain that men show their love to their wife through sex. You are offering her one of the greatest gifts of life: a man who desires her.

Tell her that you will not live with her as a roommate; she must participate in the marriage as a wife.

Show her this website:

Your Husband's Sex Drive Is God's Gift to You - Focus on the Family

You need to change the dynamic of your marriage; do not let this continue. You should consider divorce if she continues to reject you.


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## Brian. (Aug 5, 2011)

Not only is your problem not uncommon. It's _the_ norm. And in most cases I don't think there is a solution. I've never seen a man write about having a wife with zero intrest in sex turn into a wife who likes sex.

I have heard though that women might get slightly more sexual in their late thirties/early forties... So maybe if you wait 10 years, _maybe_ she'll develop some intrest in it.

Women in general in their 20's don't seem to be very intrested in sex. So the first few years in a marriage will probably be sexless.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, you did willingly go in to the marriage knowing her attitude, yes? Moral upbringing or religious oppressions regarding sex can be difficult to get over.

Is she willing to work on this if she gets an ultimatum? Would you be at the point where you could give that ultimatum? I'm assuming you don't have kids so there wouldn't be that to worry about. Because if she is willing to work on it, I think you WILL need industrial-strength help from a professional versed in just this kind of thing. And yes, visitng a counselor just on your own may well be worthwhile because they can help you work your issues so you can make a decision about how to proceed.

And don't go outside the bounds of your marriage. That won't help anything at all and will just make everything worse.

Best wishes.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

@lovesherman

I've tried variations of what you suggested. Not even close. She refuses (very firmly) on massages, or baths together. I've even tried to persuade her to look at various articles similar to the one you linked.

No dice.  And it wouldn't be so bad if it weren't due to the fact that she refuses to see a counsellor.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I couldn't live in a sex-less-affection-less marriage/relationship.

I hope you don't keep living in one either. I hope things can work out.

But in your situation, I would leave.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

prototypev said:


> First off, from reading these forums, I believe this problem of mine is not uncommon.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for slightly over 3 years now, and we've known each other for 8. We seriously dated each other for 2 before making our vows. I am 30 this year, and she is 28.
> 
> ...


It seems everytime someone says she definatly not having an affair they come back and say . Oh my god she was having an affair.

hope I'm wrong.


and yes get out while your still young. as soon as you say your out of there she will start opening her leggs I would vote for to little to late.and down the road I would go.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

You are still young; if she continues to refuse to work on the marriage, get out. It will only get worse, and you will get angry and bitter. I just want to shake these cold women! I do not understand why they reject loving men.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Well, you did willingly go in to the marriage knowing her attitude, yes? Moral upbringing or religious oppressions regarding sex can be difficult to get over.
> 
> Is she willing to work on this if she gets an ultimatum? Would you be at the point where you could give that ultimatum? I'm assuming you don't have kids so there wouldn't be that to worry about. Because if she is willing to work on it, I think you WILL need industrial-strength help from a professional versed in just this kind of thing. And yes, visitng a counselor just on your own may well be worthwhile because they can help you work your issues so you can make a decision about how to proceed.
> 
> ...


Thanks Enchantment. Yes, unfortunately I did commit myself knowing her attitude, but I just did not expect it to be that extreme. Naiveness like I said.

I have not given her an ultimatum, but we both acknowledged that this is a problem, and she said she would be "willing to be best friends still if the inevitable happens". It was probably implicitly implied that she wasn't willing to work on it. So I don't know.

I really don't want to kill our marriage just because of a lack of sexual well being, but I can't imagine living the next few decades in total celibacy.

I'll try to visit a counsellor by myself to see if there is anything that can be done though...


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Divorce her. Seriously, this is not going to change. She's happy with how things are meaning, she doesn't value you in any way. Counselling is just easy way of rationalizing suffering.


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## Brian. (Aug 5, 2011)

prototypev said:


> Thanks Enchantment. Yes, unfortunately I did commit myself knowing her attitude, but I just did not expect it to be that extreme. Naiveness like I said.
> 
> I have not given her an ultimatum, but we both acknowledged that this is a problem, and she said she would be "willing to be best friends still if the inevitable happens". It was probably implicitly implied that she wasn't willing to work on it. So I don't know.
> 
> ...


Why do you want to stay with someone who obviously doesn't love you as much as you love her?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dead end man, i dont like ultimatums because if it resulted in her bending and giving you what you need i couldnt help but think she wasnt liking it, so whats the point. time to make a break or live with it


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Brian. said:


> Not only is your problem not uncommon. It's _the_ norm. And in most cases I don't think there is a solution. I've never seen a man write about having a wife with zero intrest in sex turn into a wife who likes sex.
> 
> I have heard though that women might get slightly more sexual in their late thirties/early forties... So maybe if you wait 10 years, _maybe_ she'll develop some intrest in it.
> 
> Women in general in their 20's don't seem to be very intrested in sex. So the first few years in a marriage will probably be sexless.


Stop with your "norm" about women bullshet.

It is NOT NORMAL for people to hate sex and not want to express themselves to their partners that way--- no matter their gender.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Brian. said:


> Why do you want to stay with someone who obviously doesn't love you as much as you love her?


Because I'm probably too emotionally attached? I mean why else would I have married her in the first place.

Unfortunately this is something that my head and heart and not in sync with each other. :scratchhead:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

prototypev said:


> Any advice would be helpful...
> 
> Thanks.


Don`t marry a woman who has no interest in sex.

Really man what were you thinking?

Personally with no kids in the picture I`d simply divorce her but I`m totally unable to have a nonsexual relationship and would have divorced her within the first year if I had been foolish enough to marry her in the first place (Which I wouldn`t have)

You seem to have gotten exactly what you asked for.


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## StGeorge (Sep 12, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Stop with your "norm" about women bullshet.
> 
> It is NOT NORMAL for people to hate sex and not want to express themselves to their partners that way--- no matter their gender.


THIS :iagree:

*DO NOT! I REPEAT, DO NOT! ACCEPT THIS AS NORMAL!! *

I am dealing with the same issue 15 years down the line. I've got a lot to clean up on my end, I've made quite a mess, but you have to get this dealt with ASAP.

It happened for us about the same time it is happening for you. 

And I'm pretty sure for the same reasons. 

(although mine never told me to get a **** buddy.)

Deal with it NOW before it's too late.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

prototypev said:


> I really don't want to kill our marriage just because of a lack of sexual well being, .....


A marriage without sex isn`t a marriage it`s a room mate situation.

No scratch that.

At least with a room mate you can still have another sexual partner

Even if she was "willing to work on it" it`s not going to be worth the ridiculous amount of time,effort, and heartache for something as simple, basic, and easily accessible as sex.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Brian. said:


> Not only is your problem not uncommon. It's _the_ norm. And in most cases I don't think there is a solution. I've never seen a man write about having a wife with zero intrest in sex turn into a wife who likes sex.
> 
> I have heard though that women might get slightly more sexual in their late thirties/early forties... So maybe if you wait 10 years, _maybe_ she'll develop some intrest in it.
> 
> Women in general in their 20's don't seem to be very intrested in sex. So the first few years in a marriage will probably be sexless.


I have never met a human being as absolutely clueless as you Brian.

Totally lost.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

The only part that would be a deal breaker for me was her telling you to get a **** buddy. That shows very little respect for your marriage.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

it-guy said:


> The only part that would be a deal breaker for me was her telling you to get a **** buddy. That shows very little respect for your marriage.


Yes, that was when I was seriously contemplating calling it quits.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> And don't go outside the bounds of your marriage. That won't help anything at all and will just make everything worse.


I forgot to ask: when you mentioned "outside the bounds of my marriage", what do you mean?

Thanks!


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Enchantment meant do not cheat on your wife. No revenge affairs.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Your wife clearly has no interest in being sexual with her husband.

You cannot live with this, nor should you.

Leave. Only a cold and foolish wife would tell her husband to go find a F buddy.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Enchantment meant do not cheat on your wife. No revenge affairs.


Ah ok. Nah that's not even on my mind, nor in my list of considerations. I'm not a spiteful person.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Would y'all quit beating up on the OP with this "you asked for it" stuff? She's from a pretty strict religious family and assured the man that it would "come naturally" after the wedding. Some folks don't believe in premarital sex and the OP could have assumed that was the case. Perhaps she believed so, too. Some folks don't actually have sex before they are married. The dude has a real problem and rather than pick up a hooker or turn to porn, or throw his wife out like last week's newspaper, he finally pops in here for a little support.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Brian. said:


> Not only is your problem not uncommon. It's _the_ norm. And in most cases I don't think there is a solution. I've never seen a man write about having a wife with zero intrest in sex turn into a wife who likes sex.
> 
> I have heard though that women might get slightly more sexual in their late thirties/early forties... So maybe if you wait 10 years, _maybe_ she'll develop some intrest in it.
> 
> Women in general in their 20's don't seem to be very intrested in sex. So the first few years in a marriage will probably be sexless.


Oh, Brian. Stick around. If you read enough threads here, you'll see lots of them from men and women whose spouses were sexual in the beginning and then it cratered and practically every other conceivable permutation. 

There's one open right now that's this exact same problem as this thread with just the sexes reversed. Yah - it's the dude who has been programmed to think sex is bad. Go check it out so you can balance your perspective.

Maybe if you stick around long enough we can cram enough knowledge into your head to knock out the stereotypes and assumptions.

Here's my quote for you:

"_Assumptions are the termites of relationships_." ~Henry Winkler

Seriously, shake the stereotypes and assumptions so your head isn't full of holes in your thinking. You want a good relationship someday? Here's a start:
1 Everybody is different and that is okay.
2 Both sexes are sexual.

Best of luck.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

StGeorge said:


> THIS :iagree:
> 
> *DO NOT! I REPEAT, DO NOT! ACCEPT THIS AS NORMAL!! *
> 
> ...


By the way, what did you do to fix issues on your end when it happened to you, as you said around the same time it is happening for me?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Would y'all quit beating up on the OP with this "you asked for it" stuff? She's from a pretty strict religious family and assured the man that it would "come naturally" after the wedding. Some folks don't believe in premarital sex and the OP could have assumed that was the case. Perhaps she believed so, too. Some folks don't actually have sex before they are married. The dude has a real problem and rather than pick up a hooker or turn to porn, or throw his wife out like last week's newspaper, he finally pops in here for a little support.


100% agree. It's easy to say "you asked for it" or "you should have seen the signs". If we ALL had a crystal ball, none of us would be here as we would all have known our married future....so cut the crap. 

OP, would she be up for religious based counseling? You didn't mention what religion she is but if she is Christian, it clearly states in the Bible that sex between husband and wife is normal and natural. Actually ALL religions state that. The "dirty" part is fornicating prior to marriage, which nearly all religions discourage. Is is possible that she isn't able to get over that part or could it be something physical? You mentioned "attempted" sex so that leads me to believe that maybe there is something physical preventing her from actually having sex and those attempts perhaps hurt and thus her not wanting it anymore. Am I on to something? :scratchhead:


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I thinnk it is time for an ulitmatum, and they only work if your willing. Tell her straight up that this is not a marriage, nor how God intended a spouse to be treated. She needs to start therapy and engage or it is or you will find someoen who will. She is being as selfish as a cheater.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> 100% agree. It's easy to say "you asked for it" or "you should have seen the signs". If we ALL had a crystal ball, none of us would be here as we would all have known our married future....so cut the crap.
> 
> OP, would she be up for religious based counseling? You didn't mention what religion she is but if she is Christian, it clearly states in the Bible that sex between husband and wife is normal and natural. Actually ALL religions state that. The "dirty" part is fornicating prior to marriage, which nearly all religions discourage. Is is possible that she isn't able to get over that part or could it be something physical? You mentioned "attempted" sex so that leads me to believe that maybe there is something physical preventing her from actually having sex and those attempts perhaps hurt and thus her not wanting it anymore. Am I on to something? :scratchhead:


She was brought up in a Catholic environment actually. But she became non-practicing when she started high school I believe.

Well by attempted I mean that she was basically emotionless, a wooden block. And it's pretty much the same for the first time, as well as the most recent one (which was months ago). 2-3 hours of foreplay, and cuddling did not turn her on at all (maybe it's me?). Fingering, oral, massage, you name it, I've done it. I do not believe there was physical hurt. She's adverse to pain so I wouldn't have gotten anywhere if she was hurting in the first place.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

prototypev said:


> She was brought up in a Catholic environment actually. But she became non-practicing when she started high school I believe.
> 
> Well by attempted I mean that she was basically emotionless, a wooden block. And it's pretty much the same for the first time, as well as the most recent one (which was months ago). 2-3 hours of foreplay, and cuddling did not turn her on at all (maybe it's me?). Fingering, oral, massage, you name it, I've done it. I do not believe there was physical hurt. She's adverse to pain so I wouldn't have gotten anywhere if she was hurting in the first place.


Does she masturbate? Is she self conscience about her body as in she thinks nakedness is disgusting?


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Does she masturbate? Is she self conscience about her body as in she thinks nakedness is disgusting?


No she does not masturbate. I'm no Catholic, but I believe (please correct me if I am wrong), that masturbation in Catholic teaching was taught to be morally wrong.

Interestingly, she does not think nakedness is disgusting. I mean, she's perfectly ok with stripping down to her birthday suit at home on a hot day, or even before stepping into the bathroom for a shower.

Wierd huh.


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## blondebombshell (May 2, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> 100% agree. It's easy to say "you asked for it" or "you should have seen the signs". If we ALL had a crystal ball, none of us would be here as we would all have known our married future....so cut the crap.
> 
> OP, would she be up for religious based counseling? You didn't mention what religion she is but if she is Christian, it clearly states in the Bible that sex between husband and wife is normal and natural. Actually ALL religions state that. The "dirty" part is fornicating prior to marriage, which nearly all religions discourage. Is is possible that she isn't able to get over that part or could it be something physical? You mentioned "attempted" sex so that leads me to believe that maybe there is something physical preventing her from actually having sex and those attempts perhaps hurt and thus her not wanting it anymore. Am I on to something? :scratchhead:



I agree with this. If she won't go to a science based counselor, maybe she will be more open to seeing someone that's based within her faith. 

OP, I am confused, have you guys ever had sex? I know you said you attempted it a few times within your three year marriage but I am not sure if you guys were ever successful.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

blondebombshell said:


> I agree with this. If she won't go to a science based counselor, maybe she will be more open to seeing someone that's based within her faith.
> 
> OP, I am confused, have you guys ever had sex? I know you said you attempted it a few times within your three year marriage but I am not sure if you guys were ever successful.


We did successfully penetrate, sorry for the confusion. 

When I meant attempt, what I really meant was that it was "meaningless".


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

prototypev said:


> She was a home maker during the 3 years, but recently, she started doing her second degree, and things have just gotten way worse. Previously, at least she would hold hands, and we would hug each other. But now she's not even keen on those.


No sex and you pay for her to live at home and do what exactly?

There's no kids right? So this was just early retirement?


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Atholk said:


> No sex and you pay for her to live at home and do what exactly?
> 
> There's no kids right? So this was just early retirement?


Yes no kids. Well she's back to school now so...


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## blondebombshell (May 2, 2011)

prototypev said:


> We did successfully penetrate, sorry for the confusion.
> 
> When I meant attempt, what I really meant was that it was "meaningless".



I was sitting here scratching my head and wondering whether you'd gone 3 years in a marriage with absolutely no sex. Is she open to maybe speaking with the priest of her church? My husband and I did a few counseling sessions with the priest of our old church and it helped quite a bit although I was still interested in science based marriage counseling as well.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

A second degree right? Why would it be any better than the first one? You are paying for it one way or another I would think, why??


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

blondebombshell said:


> I was sitting here scratching my head and wondering whether you'd gone 3 years in a marriage with absolutely no sex. Is she open to maybe speaking with the priest of her church? My husband and I did a few counseling sessions with the priest of our old church and it helped quite a bit although I was still interested in science based marriage counseling as well.


She doesn't practice anymore so she's no longer really affiliated with her faith really. And because she's technically "religious-less" now, I find it difficult to understand why she does not want to overcome her initial programming by going to a science based counsellor.

She's not easy to understand. :scratchhead:


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Locard said:


> A second degree right? Why would it be any better than the first one? You are paying for it one way or another I would think, why??


Taking a second degree isn't all that uncommon I think? She got her parents to agree to pay for it anyway. As for why, she messed up her first degree choice and did not really have interest in it I guess.


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## HappyWife40 (Aug 23, 2011)

Is she on any kind of birth control? I ask this, because I was on one and it destroyed my libido. Then again, I was aware of my sex drive, so I noticed it and had the doctor change it quickly.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

HappyWife40 said:


> Is she on any kind of birth control? I ask this, because I was on one and it destroyed my libido. Then again, I was aware of my sex drive, so I noticed it and had the doctor change it quickly.


Nope no birth control pills at all.


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## blondebombshell (May 2, 2011)

prototypev said:


> She doesn't practice anymore so she's no longer really affiliated with her faith really. And because she's technically "religious-less" now, I find it difficult to understand why she does not want to overcome her initial programming by going to a science based counsellor.
> 
> She's not easy to understand. :scratchhead:


Whoops, I just went back and read your posts thoroughly instead of just skimming. That is really odd. If it's not her religion then there has to be some sort of underlying issue if you are certain that she is faithful.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What's her mother's relationship with her father like? The reason I ask is that most of what we "know" about marriage, we get from our parents. Also, my wife treats me almost exactly like her dad gets treated and I've noticed her two sisters treat their men about the same way. If she's developed negative notions about sex, she picked them up somewhere. Any possibility of child sexual abuse? Sex feels good. Intimacy between loving people just feels natural and good. There has to be a pretty significant reason when it doesn't. She is comfortable with the way things are and that would be disturbing to me. It's another way of saying your pain isn't important to her. This is a concept I don't understand. If you love someone, how could you be content with seeing them suffer? Doesn't compute with me. I wonder if the mechanism she uses to protect her from the guilt of hurting you is to pretend things are ok?


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What's her mother's relationship with her father like? The reason I ask is that most of what we "know" about marriage, we get from our parents. Also, my wife treats me almost exactly like her dad gets treated and I've noticed her two sisters treat their men about the same way. If she's developed negative notions about sex, she picked them up somewhere. Any possibility of child sexual abuse? Sex feels good. Intimacy between loving people just feels natural and good. There has to be a pretty significant reason when it doesn't. She is comfortable with the way things are and that would be disturbing to me. It's another way of saying your pain isn't important to her. This is a concept I don't understand. If you love someone, how could you be content with seeing them suffer? Doesn't compute with me. I wonder if the mechanism she uses to protect her from the guilt of hurting you is to pretend things are ok?


Actually now that you bring it up, I'm pretty close to her dad, not her mum though. And indeed the both of them seem more like house/room mates more than a couple. My own grandparents, are more loving than her parents are!

I strongly suspect it's the mum that's the issue (no offense to the women here). As far as I know at least, I don't know of any child sex abuse history.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You brought your view of what a "normal" marriage looks like to the relationship and so did she. Trouble is, these are two very different views.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Do you draw any parallels with the fact she has degree but never went anywhere with it, just like your relationship? And no, getting a second degree if completely unrelated in this economy is not something most people do. Good for her parents paying, but she could be working!! She is a cake eater and has zero motivation or reason to change. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the sex will not change as I don't think you have the stomach for what needs to be done. That is not to put blame on you, you did nothing wrong but take vows. I wish you luck.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

Locard said:


> Do you draw any parallels with the fact she has degree but never went anywhere with it, just like your relationship? And no, getting a second degree if completely unrelated in this economy is not something most people do. Good for her parents paying, but she could be working!! She is a cake eater and has zero motivation or reason to change.
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the sex will not change as I don't think you have the stomach for what needs to be done. That is not to put blame on you, you did nothing wrong but take vows. I wish you luck.


Yeah I guess you could call her a cake eater. Her parents paid for her first degree too. 

I can't really draw parallels with the fact that she has a degree but did nothing with it to our relationship though.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

prototypev said:


> Yeah I guess you could call her a cake eater. Her parents paid for her first degree too.
> 
> I can't really draw parallels with the fact that she has a degree but did nothing with it to our relationship though.


It'd be related to a sense of entitlement. She gets what she wants without corresponding responsibility.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Number one, do not have a child. If she decides she wants children and becomes sexual all of a sudden, don't think you hit the jackpot... realize that once the baby comes she will go right back the way she is now, but then you will be more intertwined.

You have to convince yourself that you are worthy of a loving, affectionate and sexual marriage. You have to convince yourself that a marriage is sexual and the behavior you describe is cruel. Then think about whether you can be emotionally bonded to someone so cruel and work on having the full faith of the image of the affectionate and sexual marriage you deserve will be yours in life.

Now, the catholic religion teaches that a loving, emotional and sexual bond between a husband and wife is sacred and to be pursued in life. So anyone who says they were "raised catholic" and therefore they hate sex is distorting the teachings of the church for their own selfish purpose.

Since she said you should get a f* buddy the one thing I would do is speak in an philosophical way about the purpose of sex in marriage as an emotional bond like none other in life, and the sacred nature of a sexual bond in marriage. It's clear her perception of the need for sex is very far out of whack if she tells you to get f* buddy. This is not the solution to your problem but it sure is a starting point.

Now, I firmly believe that women can change and that something in life or something that you do could trigger your wife to be sexual with you. But, in your case given the sheer magnitude of your wife's resistance to sex with you, your age, and the fact that you have no children, I would personally recommend that you invite your wife to fix her hangups with sexuality by a certain date, or that you will be initiating a separation / divorce.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Proto:

See if these posts resonate with you:

By Lon:

Remy, like me your H sounds like he has lived his life trying to be the "nice guy". I don't think he is necessarily emulating what he saw growing up but he did learn very early on in his formative years that to be loved he had to avoid conflict and be good, that's his basic road map of life. By doing these deeds for others its not that he genuinely feels selfless, he does them because he believes that is the way to get his needs met, when this doesn't work it gets very frustrating and so he tries even harder to please others the way he thinks they need his service. And yeah, when it doesn't work out he displaces blame and anger onto you, your friends and family. It is a very common problem, one which requires completely redefining the road map of life... (even if he is more the "I'm so bad" nice guy).

This is all new to me too, I knew I fit the nice guy mold and took pride in it not even realizing it was the reason I have never been able to find fulfillment in life. And so I've been reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and it is shocking to me how accurate the author has described my life. The simple solution is when something doesn't work do it differently and that is the hardest thing in the world for a "nice guy" to do because we can't even comprehend how to go about doing something differently. 

By Catherine602:

As I said above, men appear to feel hurt, lonely and confused when sex is cut off. I leaned that they don't share the hur feelings and the feelings of loneliness.. That would go against maleness - men stuff emotions and keep going. Anger is a more acceptable reaction to reveal. My husband is high drive and he does not ask for sex and he does not tolerate going more than 4 days without. So I managed to decrease sex to a bare minimum by avoiding physical contact.

I read more books and forums and the description of the emotions of the men who were in sexless or sex starved relationdships sounded as if they were reading from the same scipt. It was deeply desturbing and difficult to read. It changed my whole notion of male sexuality. I finally asked my husband if he felt the same as the things I had read. It took some work to pry it out of him but, he admitted to feeling lonely and that I no longer loved him and lost my attraction to him. I asked him why he did not tell me. He said he thought I knew!

Why didn't I know? Why do so many woman not know? I learned that the pure pleasure seeking male sexuality is an immature phase in a man developement and probably in a wens development as well. Many men get stuck in this phase but the great majority pass through this phase and are able to merge love with sex. Many can still have emotionless sex but, sex with the one they love has emotions associated with it.

I think women in general don't understand. When I read post from some of the high drive women on TAM, they describ the same feelings of desperation when sex is too infrequent for them. So it has noting to do with gender but biology. For some reason reading women describe the same things as men made me more convinced. Every woman should experience high drive once in her life I think so that there is more understanding.

If this sounds like you, take action now to change the dynamic of your marriage.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> Proto:
> 
> See if these posts resonate with you:
> 
> ...


Thank you, and yes indeed this sounds more or less the same. My wife most probably does not understand.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What do you want?

And quite simply, what are you prepared to do if you cannot have what you want?

Right now, I think this is what you need to focus on. Not her, and what she is, or isn't doing ... you know already know what that is, cold.

What do you want for your life? What do you want out of your marriage? Do you, can you, get either of those things married to this woman?


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm working with a wife whose tendency and perceptions of a "natural" relationship MAY be similar to yours. I think your dilemma (and mine) are solvable. It is going to take work, research, thinking, and gaming on your part. It sounds like you BOTH "fell" into the relationship and marriage without her (especially) having to "do" much to create a bond. So, once it became legal, WTF?, 'Why should I have to do anything now? - especially since mom and dad only did it once for me." That may be unrealistically cynical, but past life experience and perception can be powerful in how we choose (consciously or unconsciously) to live. I think you have a good chance with positively shaking up the dynamics of the relationship and making positive progress. The f-buddy comment was just a "test" - a buff at worst. She probably wants to feel some fire and sexualiy, but has NO IDEA how it happens - based on her family experience or past NEED (lack of need) TO BE SEXUAL. Dont talk too much. Take action. Read MMSL, do the MAP, and worse come to worse - in due time, issue the ultimatum. Be warned however, in protecting her present comfort, she may "decide" (even unconsciously) to get pregnant, fatten you up, or have an affair to protect/continue the comfort of her status quo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Does she masturbate?


Should not the question be, "Have you seen her masturbating?" Not to sidetrack this post, are there some women who don't EVER masturbate?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I would be suprised if my W did. She says she never has and is not much for touching unless she has had a bit to drink, just kind of shy.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

DanG said:


> Should not the question be, "Have you seen her masturbating?" Not to sidetrack this post, are there some women who don't EVER masturbate?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, definitely. According to this link: The Kinsey Institute - Sexuality Information Links - FAQ [Related Resources]

It states the following:



> • 5% of men and 11% of women have never masturbated


Everybody's different and unique.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

A little update: She has (reluctantly) agreed to visit a counsellor. Hopefully things would improve from there.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> I've never seen a man write about having a wife with zero intrest in sex turn into a wife who likes sex.


Proto,

This was written by Brian awhile back in the posts. . .but I am sorry to say, I have to agree with him here.

I mean, let's face it. . .there are women out there who are raised in a family where they are told sex is dirty and wrong. . .yet. . .these women are horny (let's use the prototypical Italian Catholic girl as an example - there are many other examples).

The point is. . .you can't contain libido if you have it. It's bursting to get out. Yes, when we are with a new partner, it takes a little while to establish rhythm. Rarely do newlyweds just jump each other's bones and everything is in sync.

Humans are designed this way because reproduction (the end result of sex) is very, VERY serious biological business. That's why Catholics end up with the same abortion/contraception rate as the rest of the population despite having it knocked into their heads that premarital sex is morally wrong.

Go ahead and do counseling. You are morally obligated to in fact. I would never just say to just leave as I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy. But IMHO, this doesn't bode well. 

If a woman (or man) is not interested in a sexual relationship, then in my opinion, they are not "called" to marriage. They should be called to a life of service or accumulation or whatever other thing in life they value.

You can't "counsel" a libido into a woman. In fact, I think most women get wind of a "lecture" and react the opposite to counseling.

All this advice is assuming in most respects you are a normal man - work a job or two, participate in childrearing and housework and are mostly not a dolt.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

prototypev said:


> we both acknowledged that this is a problem, and she said she would be "willing to be best friends still if the inevitable happens".


 Her saying that she was "willing to be best friends" when the "inevitable" divorce happens, coupled with her telling you to go find a "f*ck-buddy", is her telling you that she does not find any value in marriage to you. These are not the comments of a religious person btw, these are the comments of someone that has already checked out of the marriage. She may or may not love you, but she clearly is not in love with you. Your marriage is already over in all but the paperwork.



prototypev said:


> I really don't want to kill our marriage just because of a lack of sexual well being, but I can't imagine living the next few decades in total celibacy.


You do not have to worry about living the next few decades in total celibacy. If you do not leave her, she will leave you way before that, when she finds someone that she really is in love with.

I am very sorry that your marriage did not work out. I can tell that you are a good person and that you gave it your all. I cannot imagine the pain that this will cause you as you move forward with the "inevitable". But know that there is someone out their looking for someone like you.


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## prototypev (Sep 20, 2011)

It's been a while since I posted, but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who have given some form of advice or another.

Unfortunately, I have to say that it is over between the both of us. During our counselling session, we had agreed (with the counsellor) that in a marriage there should be give and take. To cut the long story short, she said she still loved me deeply, etc.

Less than a week after our visit, she's back to her old self, PLUS she started staying out late all night. I threw in the towel yesterday after 3 weeks of her consecutively staying out all weekend, as I totally could no longer bear to be merely a paycheck and maid to her (yes I do all, _every single_ household chore).

Needless to say, that decision left me with mixed feelings.


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