# This is a part of my story as told by me in a metaphorical style.



## Emptyshelldad

After my wifes affair partner kinda ended it, she immediatly went full bore the other direction. this is what i call "old chevy" syndrome. your spouse sees a new car on the lot, and says "ooohhh, that looks so nice". 

Then she begins to really "notice" all the "faults" and "problems" that her old chevy has given her. the way it leaks a little oil, The way it can be hard to start on cold mornings without using the special start sequence (pump twice slowly, then start and slowly give it gas until engine is above 2000 rpms, then lower it slowly to idle and let it warm up a bit, for those who actually have an old chevy  

Then the way the seats are a little worn. The way the carpet isn't as clean as the new ones. The way the ac isn't customizable to passenger and driver like the new car is. The old Chevy is a little louder when going down the road, that new one sure looks quiet. 
And that new car promises to be better with the kids than the old Chevy by using its built in DVD players. And all her friends tell her how she deserves that new car, how the old Chevy has always been a disappointment to her and to them. So after seeing all this abuse, no wonder she has to buy that new car....so she does. And she is sooooooo happy with it. It's better in every way than her old Chevy which now sits in the driveway.....it's former spot in the garage, now being taken up by the "new car".

She is not seeing that the old Chevy has faithfully performed for her and the family for many years, despite the neglect. And when it did break down, it was only thirty bucks in parts and thirty mins in labor to get it back up and running. That it never complained about not getting taken care of the way she is taking care of the new car. That it put up with the bumps of the road without complaining and throwing in a check engine light for every little thing. 

But as a few months go by, the wife gets that bill every month and says "damn, that car is nice, but it sure is expensive.....my old Chevy never required such a payment.....in fact, I never gave much money to my old Chevy at all.........Then her cell phone rings, its her insurance agent and he tells her what her new monthly premium will be since the new car requires full coverage.....she starts to see that this car is going to be a great expense. 

Then they take their first road trip, and she has been looking forward to getting that new car out on the open road. She is comfy, in these new seats, but the angle isn't quite what she likes. And she is annoyed at how cramped this new car is. But she is still very excited, because she loves family road trips.....the games the kids and parents play as they drive, the abc sign game, the license plate game, slug bug......but withba sigh, she notices the kids pop in a DVD as soon as they get in.....and when they put on the bluetooth headphones that came as part of the "back seat entertainment package", it becomes clear to her that the new car treats the kids as a distraction.......she has her first fond memory of longing for her old Chevy, now sitting covered in dust and leaves in the driveway back home. 

Meanwhile, Back home, a young woman who just moved to the neighborhood is out jogging like she does every evening. And she passes by this "classic Chevy" sitting in the driveway. And each day she comes to appreciate it more and more.....it's striking lines mixed with gentle curves, roomy interior, and.....it'ssubtle way it unmistakably conveys its strength......the way cars were back when they were real cars. Made of steel, and pride, not just plastic and profit like the new ones today. One day she goes up to the classic, shocked at its current state of neglect. As she rubs the dirt off the window to peer inside, she sees a for sale note....it explains "current owner found something better, and now just wants this old hunk out of her driveway, it starts, it runs, and its free to whoever wants it. The keys are in the ignition and a signed title is in the glove compartment." The young woman can't believe her luck.....that someone would give away a classic like this! She gets in, turns the key, and the car roars to life with a new found passion. She heads straight the the DMV, and then the car wash. 

While on this trip, wife gets a call from the finance company. there has been a mistake; she doesn't actually qualify for the new car. Her payments will all be returned to her, and the new car will removed from her possession in 48 hours. 

She is devastated, she loved this new car. And now it's gone just like that.....this was so unfair. She felt betrayed. How could the new car do this to her. She is in a panic, she needs a car! Then she remembers the old Chevy......"it's just sitting there.....waiting for me to drive it again" 

she's not excited but she is relieved to know that she still has at least her chevy to fall back on. As she drives on the long route home, the car filled silence as the kids are watching another movie with headphones......she has time to think. " ya know, if I take even half the money i was happily spending on this new car every month and spent it on the old Chevy, she could have the best of both worlds" 

"i could get new seats, and new carpet installed, and have new seals put in the engine to stop the oil leaks. I could have a block heater put in to keep the car engine warm for easy cold weather starts." She begins to look forward to the looks she used to get from people about her Chevy. And the roomy interior, because despite the great mileage this car got, it was very cramped and felt kinda cheaply made. She gets excited about getting the Chevy buffed up and beautiful once again. But she will still miss this new car smell. 

So now your wife starts with "fixing the old Chevy" in her mind. 

But when she pulls up to the driveway, she is in a panic. "What happened to the Chevy?.....where is my car!! ". The kids pile out and a man from the dealership pulls up, he needs the keys, cause he's there to drive the new car back to the dealer. She gives them to him, and he drives away. As fast as the new car came into her life, so was its departure. 

Now she really needed to find her old Chevy. Then she remembers, with a feeling of a arctic ice suddenly forming in her stomach, the note.......the note she wrote...the week she got the new car. And she begins desperately walking the neighborhood, frantically asking neighbors, who all say they've seen it around, but don't know where it is. 

She keeps walking and after an hour or so she sees up ahead, a young woman waxing a beautiful classic car. She has seen this woman jogging by, and up close she is just as pretty as she appeared to be while running. 

And she thinks "wow, I've got to find my car, cause if I can't have my new one, then id love to make my old one look like that". But as she gets closer, she realizes, that is her car. She walks up and notices the license plate says "MINE" and she gets nervous. but she says "there has been a mistake, I need this car back. My main plan for a new car didn't work out so I have to make do with this still". 

Then she notices the new seats, and the new interior, and new paint job. And she says inquisitively " Why would you put this kind of money and care into this car when it's so old". 

To this, the young beautiful woman, replies in shock "this car is not old......it's classic." " and Im sorry about your new car, but this car is mine now, and there is no way I'm letting it go". The wife is outraged by this and says " but this is my car! I've had it since the first day it rolled off the lot! Now, I can see you've put some money into it, so I'm willing to pay you for it. How much?" The young woman replies "' the way you treated this car, it might be in the scrap pile with you as it's owner, and that would have been a shame.......because a car like this is worth more than money.......and I'm sorry you don't see it that way. I wish you the best of luck in finding another car." 

Walking home, she begins to cry.



Your just the old classic Chevy in great shape,....but lacking that new car smell....and she went and test drove the new car.....plastic and cheap with no real soul....but she wanted it.....and only when she was told that she didn't qualify for the new one, did she seek to make do with her old faithful classic.......


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## MattMatt

Emptyshelldad said:


> After my wifes affair partner kinda ended it, she immediatly went full bore the other direction. this is what i call "old chevy" syndrome. your spouse sees a new car on the lot, and says "ooohhh, that looks so nice".
> 
> Then she begins to really "notice" all the "faults" and "problems" that her old chevy has given her. the way it leaks a little oil, The way it can be hard to start on cold mornings without using the special start sequence (pump twice slowly, then start and slowly give it gas until engine is above 2000 rpms, then lower it slowly to idle and let it warm up a bit, for those who actually have an old chevy
> 
> Then the way the seats are a little worn. The way the carpet isn't as clean as the new ones. The way the ac isn't customizable to passenger and driver like the new car is. The old Chevy is a little louder when going down the road, that new one sure looks quiet.
> And that new car promises to be better with the kids than the old Chevy by using its built in DVD players. And all her friends tell her how she deserves that new car, how the old Chevy has always been a disappointment to her and to them. So after seeing all this abuse, no wonder she has to buy that new car....so she does. And she is sooooooo happy with it. It's better in every way than her old Chevy which now sits in the driveway.....it's former spot in the garage, now being taken up by the "new car".
> 
> She is not seeing that the old Chevy has faithfully performed for her and the family for many years, despite the neglect. And when it did break down, it was only thirty bucks in parts and thirty mins in labor to get it back up and running. That it never complained about not getting taken care of the way she is taking care of the new car. That it put up with the bumps of the road without complaining and throwing in a check engine light for every little thing.
> 
> But as a few months go by, the wife gets that bill every month and says "damn, that car is nice, but it sure is expensive.....my old Chevy never required such a payment.....in fact, I never gave much money to my old Chevy at all.........Then her cell phone rings, its her insurance agent and he tells her what her new monthly premium will be since the new car requires full coverage.....she starts to see that this car is going to be a great expense.
> 
> Then they take their first road trip, and she has been looking forward to getting that new car out on the open road. She is comfy, in these new seats, but the angle isn't quite what she likes. And she is annoyed at how cramped this new car is. But she is still very excited, because she loves family road trips.....the games the kids and parents play as they drive, the abc sign game, the license plate game, slug bug......but withba sigh, she notices the kids pop in a DVD as soon as they get in.....and when they put on the bluetooth headphones that came as part of the "back seat entertainment package", it becomes clear to her that the new car treats the kids as a distraction.......she has her first fond memory of longing for her old Chevy, now sitting covered in dust and leaves in the driveway back home.
> 
> Meanwhile, Back home, a young woman who just moved to the neighborhood is out jogging like she does every evening. And she passes by this "classic Chevy" sitting in the driveway. And each day she comes to appreciate it more and more.....it's striking lines mixed with gentle curves, roomy interior, and.....it'ssubtle way it unmistakably conveys its strength......the way cars were back when they were real cars. Made of steel, and pride, not just plastic and profit like the new ones today. One day she goes up to the classic, shocked at its current state of neglect. As she rubs the dirt off the window to peer inside, she sees a for sale note....it explains "current owner found something better, and now just wants this old hunk out of her driveway, it starts, it runs, and its free to whoever wants it. The keys are in the ignition and a signed title is in the glove compartment." The young woman can't believe her luck.....that someone would give away a classic like this! She gets in, turns the key, and the car roars to life with a new found passion. She heads straight the the DMV, and then the car wash.
> 
> While on this trip, wife gets a call from the finance company. there has been a mistake; she doesn't actually qualify for the new car. Her payments will all be returned to her, and the new car will removed from her possession in 48 hours.
> 
> She is devastated, she loved this new car. And now it's gone just like that.....this was so unfair. She felt betrayed. How could the new car do this to her. She is in a panic, she needs a car! Then she remembers the old Chevy......"it's just sitting there.....waiting for me to drive it again"
> 
> she's not excited but she is relieved to know that she still has at least her chevy to fall back on. As she drives on the long route home, the car filled silence as the kids are watching another movie with headphones......she has time to think. " ya know, if I take even half the money i was happily spending on this new car every month and spent it on the old Chevy, she could have the best of both worlds"
> 
> "i could get new seats, and new carpet installed, and have new seals put in the engine to stop the oil leaks. I could have a block heater put in to keep the car engine warm for easy cold weather starts." She begins to look forward to the looks she used to get from people about her Chevy. And the roomy interior, because despite the great mileage this car got, it was very cramped and felt kinda cheaply made. She gets excited about getting the Chevy buffed up and beautiful once again. But she will still miss this new car smell.
> 
> So now your wife starts with "fixing the old Chevy" in her mind.
> 
> But when she pulls up to the driveway, she is in a panic. "What happened to the Chevy?.....where is my car!! ". The kids pile out and a man from the dealership pulls up, he needs the keys, cause he's there to drive the new car back to the dealer. She gives them to him, and he drives away. As fast as the new car came into her life, so was its departure.
> 
> Now she really needed to find her old Chevy. Then she remembers, with a feeling of a arctic ice suddenly forming in her stomach, the note.......the note she wrote...the week she got the new car. And she begins desperately walking the neighborhood, frantically asking neighbors, who all say they've seen it around, but don't know where it is.
> 
> She keeps walking and after an hour or so she sees up ahead, a young woman waxing a beautiful classic car. She has seen this woman jogging by, and up close she is just as pretty as she appeared to be while running.
> 
> And she thinks "wow, I've got to find my car, cause if I can't have my new one, then id love to make my old one look like that". But as she gets closer, she realizes, that is her car. She walks up and notices the license plate says "MINE" and she gets nervous. but she says "there has been a mistake, I need this car back. My main plan for a new car didn't work out so I have to make do with this still".
> 
> Then she notices the new seats, and the new interior, and new paint job. And she says inquisitively " Why would you put this kind of money and care into this car when it's so old".
> 
> To this, the young beautiful woman, replies in shock "this car is not old......it's classic." " and Im sorry about your new car, but this car is mine now, and there is no way I'm letting it go". The wife is outraged by this and says " but this is my car! I've had it since the first day it rolled off the lot! Now, I can see you've put some money into it, so I'm willing to pay you for it. How much?" The young woman replies "' the way you treated this car, it might be in the scrap pile with you as it's owner, and that would have been a shame.......because a car like this is worth more than money.......and I'm sorry you don't see it that way. I wish you the best of luck in finding another car."
> 
> Walking home, she begins to cry.
> 
> 
> 
> Your just the old classic Chevy in great shape,....but lacking that new car smell....and she went and test drove the new car.....plastic and cheap with no real soul....but she wanted it.....and only when she was told that she didn't qualify for the new one, did she seek to make do with her old faithful classic.......


:iagree:

Could this be a sticky? It's good!:smthumbup:


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## aug

So, what's she doing now without a car to drive?

Is she looking at a Honda or a Toyota?


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## alte Dame

Sounds like the beautiful young woman is still in the picture. So, no more 'empty shell'?


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## Emptyshelldad

No unfortunately the empty shell remains. The very idea that you can now never know for sure. You may always be the blind fool yet again. And i should clarify that this is the story as I see it, I'm sure my ww would disagree wholeheartedly. But it's also meant as a general metaphor of hope for all betrayed spouses out there, but men in particular since the style I wrote it in was for men specifically. 

It's really sad but this is what i feel happens in a lot of wayward wife scenarios.


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## azteca1986

> Made of steel, and pride, not just plastic and profit like the new ones today.


What a wonderful line. 

A tip of the hat from a fellow appreciator of classic cars.


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## LongWalk

Is your thread beginning at last. Good start. How many years did the woman in the story drive the old Chevy?


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## davecarter

Thing is, how many old Chevys (or old cars, _period_) do you see out on the road now?


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## harrybrown

Makes me wish I was a Chevy.

Mine is a Lincoln town car with less than 60,000 miles on it.
(from the 80s)

However, I still keep it in the garage. I like it, but my wife does not.


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## davecarter

harrybrown said:


> Makes me wish I was a Chevy.
> 
> Mine is a Lincoln town car with less than 60,000 miles on it.
> (from the 80s)
> 
> However, I still keep it in the garage. I like it, but my wife does not.


Currently got a black BMW 320-series M Sport...my separated wife does not like the fact I have it!


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## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> Is your thread beginning at last. Good start. How many years did the woman in the story drive the old Chevy?


She drove the old Chevy for 10 years 10 months and 27 days. 

Also notice the way I had the wife calling it the old Chevy, but she changed at times to calling it just Chevy, those are meant to express the way women start to realize that what they had isn't really all that bad. 

Even now she begs me to come back and I fight against it, but the guilt tripping of everyone involved is killing my resolve. Mostly for my girls sake. They want their daddy home so bad. Just thinking of it brings tears to my eyes.


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## life101

dood, you are my hero!


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## Thorburn

Man, I had a 1964 Pontiac LeMans, SS.

Very nice way of putting things in perspective for us old motor heads.


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## redamzcy

Sounds like the beautiful young woman is still in the picture.


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## Headspin

I'm 58

I kinda feel I should qualify for the 'classic' !

:smthumbup:


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## the guy

I take my hat off to your post,Esd and I don't take my hat off very often.

I wish a lot more waywards could really understand the regret that always comes before they start to go down that slippery slope.

I mean if a wayward only knew of the great risk that infidelity had with regards to the regret it may have saved some from straying.


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## Emptyshelldad

Yeah it's very rare indeed that a person who strays doesn't look back on it with real regret. Unless they are a narcissistic sosciopath.....which seems to go hand in hand with a lot of cheater type personalities. 

She never stops telling me how that space in her "garage" will always be mine and she will never let anyone else park there again. 
But this life on the open road is pretty appealing. She probably didn't realize at the time but by giving me reason to question being with her, the females come out in droves, and it made me realize just how hot a commodity good men are. Those of us in rare form are, indeed, in rare supply. 
I'm 30 and have the open highway of life before me......it's my choice where I drive to now.


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## manticore

dude, you are pretty young, I was wondering how old were you, but 30, you have a lot to look forward.

Are you still dating the young chick?, or just enjoying your freedom.


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## manticore

Emptyshelldad said:


> So now your wife starts with "fixing the old Chevy"
> 
> I flew her all expenses and luxuries paid to San Diego and she spent a week there alone just to visit her father who was terminal with cancer. Of course she was most excited to see her lover and finally be able to consummate their love. The day after she did the deed, she called him and told him how she was really falling for him etc. and he told her about how they both have families and need to keep that in mind blah blah. Aka....thanks for free side pu!?y but this is just side action for me. And she was at the airport at this time and called her sister and cried about it. Then went to the bookstore on the airport and picked up a copy of "his her needs, how to affair proof your marriage". And I was so excited when she got home thinking to myself "even when she is away from me she is thinking of ways to improve our already great marriage....what a lucky guy I am". Then I bragged about it to my many other friends about how she got it and how great she was. So biggest tool of the century award goes to.........meeeeee!


I found your post in other thread and sucks what she did to you man, and using her father as excuse make me have 0 emphaty for her (for not calling her all the names in the book).

some questions and observations if you don't mind.

- How did you find?. She obviously was playing as if she was improving the marriage and not fixing it for her affair.

- Did you burn the OM with his wife?, if not you should.

- so her sister knew about the affair? if yes, that sucks, you should cut her complety from you life and your kids life, and tell your kids in the future how his aunt was a facilitator for her mom's affair.

- For what I understand OM was in a different city, what was she expecting?, for both of them to divorce and then move a and left with your kids?, if yes, no man you should never consider reconciliation with her (just my opinion).

- what you and her family said about the whole thing?. I mean he used her dying father as excuse to f*ck another man.

IS good that you are in a better place now. wish you the best man.


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## Mr Blunt

Dear old classic Chevy

I am sorry to hear that your previous driver (Wife) drove you into the mud ditch then mad because she got stuck tried to get out by floor boarding your engine until she blew a rod through your block. Scape-goating you for being the reason that she is full of mud she jumped into a passing BMW and left you in the ditch.

Now that she found out that the BMW will not allow her to drive it into the mud ditch and ruin the motor she is without a car. Your wife is desperate and wants her classic Chevy back but the classic Chevy is in the garage and getting the motor repaired. *After the motor is repaired the classic Chevy is leery of the driver that drove it into the mud ditch then ditched the Chevy for a foreign car the BMW*.

However, the old driver (wife) has those precious children that the classic Chevy so loved to take them for rides to all the places that they enjoyed and were bonded together so the classic Chevy is in a dilemma. 

*Perhaps the classic Chevy will consider getting the upholstery and engine in even better shape than it was before going to the mud ditch. *While the Chevy is getting in better shape the Chevy can take those children for a ride as often as possible. Perhaps getting a legal schedule to take those children for those bonding rides.

As far as the previous driver (wife) getting back into the Chevy, perhaps the Chevy can tell the driver that her actions over the next few months or years will be considered. However, at this time the wife will not be allowed to take the wheel and be the driver, she has forfeited that privilege. Perhaps she can prove herself enough that she can be a passenger. The previous driver (wife) will have to take many actions in order to make up for the children missing out on the rides, the warm seats, the cool fresh air and the bonding that they missed with the calssic Chevy while the Classic Chevy was in the repair shop. *After the wife has taken those actions and making the payments for the repairs the Classic Chevy may consider allowing her to drive again someday. The wife must realize that she will never own the Classic Chevy again.*

If the wife fails to help repair the damages she has done then the classic Chevy will continue to improve the interior, motor, and paint and have all options free for the Chevy to take. *Being a Classic Chevy there are many drivers that know how to take care of a classic Chevy and would be very interested in sitting down in that fresh smelling upholstery seat and experiencing that powerful motor vibrate through her legs, up her thighs, tickling her butt, then upwards. VARRROOOM!!!!*
Nothing does it like a healthy small block Chevy with perfectly working rods!!!


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## aug

Emptyshelldad said:


> Yeah it's very rare indeed that a person who strays doesn't look back on it with real regret. Unless they are a narcissistic sosciopath.....which seems to go hand in hand with a lot of cheater type personalities.
> 
> She never stops telling me how that space in her "garage" will always be mine and she will never let anyone else park there again.
> But this life on the open road is pretty appealing. She probably didn't realize at the time but by giving me reason to question being with her, the females come out in droves, and it made me realize just how hot a commodity good men are. Those of us in rare form are, indeed, in rare supply.
> I'm 30 and have the open highway of life before me......it's my choice where I drive to now.



She probably has built a triple garage by now -- so lots of room for you too, I suppose.


You're only 30. This thing about the classic chevy had me thinking you are decades older.


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## Emptyshelldad

" Quote - Nothing does it like a healthy small block Chevy with perfectly working rods!!!"

Yes and my rod does work perfectly, so I'm actually looking forward to using it with many other women who've come round just as soon as they heard we were having problems rumored about my wife's infidelity. She is just broken up about the fact that I may go be with others and be single for a while. 
See I work out of state now, and she likes that I hang out all of us whenever I come back. It lets her pretend that I'm only not around because I'm working out of state. So she is very upset that I will nowmbe devoting some of rather limited time home to pursuing relationsn with younger women.


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## Emptyshelldad

Quote - "You're only 30. This thing about the classic chevy had me thinking you are decades older."

Yeah I'm one of those many hat kind of guys. So I have a thing for classic cars and classic rock. After all they are called classic for a reason. I mean no one is gonna be singing j-lo songs twenty years from now. In fact, I specifically chose j-lo so that some of you reading this would be like "oh yeah that's right she had a couple hits several years ago....I totally forgot."

But not many of my peers share my unique taste in classic cars. But the backseat of a classic is roomy, enough to really get acrobatic in the coital copluation.  So I think guys who think newer cars are better, are speaking to their lack of skills and confidence at getting a girl in the backseat at all.....they probably think the back seat is there in case you have to haul more than 2 people.....HA! Fools..


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## Emptyshelldad

Mr Blunt said:


> Dear old classic Chevy
> 
> I am sorry to hear that your previous driver (Wife) drove you into the mud ditch then mad because she got stuck tried to get out by floor boarding your engine until she blew a rod through your block. Scape-goating you for being the reason that she is full of mud she jumped into a passing BMW and left you in the ditch.
> 
> Now that she found out that the BMW will not allow her to drive it into the mud ditch and ruin the motor she is without a car. Your wife is desperate and wants her classic Chevy back but the classic Chevy is in the garage and getting the motor repaired. *After the motor is repaired the classic Chevy is leery of the driver that drove it into the mud ditch then ditched the Chevy for a foreign car the BMW*.
> 
> However, the old driver (wife) has those precious children that the classic Chevy so loved to take them for rides to all the places that they enjoyed and were bonded together so the classic Chevy is in a dilemma.
> 
> *Perhaps the classic Chevy will consider getting the upholstery and engine in even better shape than it was before going to the mud ditch. *While the Chevy is getting in better shape the Chevy can take those children for a ride as often as possible. Perhaps getting a legal schedule to take those children for those bonding rides.
> 
> As far as the previous driver (wife) getting back into the Chevy, perhaps the Chevy can tell the driver that her actions over the next few months or years will be considered. However, at this time the wife will not be allowed to take the wheel and be the driver, she has forfeited that privilege. Perhaps she can prove herself enough that she can be a passenger. The previous driver (wife) will have to take many actions in order to make up for the children missing out on the rides, the warm seats, the cool fresh air and the bonding that they missed with the calssic Chevy while the Classic Chevy was in the repair shop. *After the wife has taken those actions and making the payments for the repairs the Classic Chevy may consider allowing her to drive again someday. The wife must realize that she will never own the Classic Chevy again.*
> 
> If the wife fails to help repair the damages she has done then the classic Chevy will continue to improve the interior, motor, and paint and have all options free for the Chevy to take. *Being a Classic Chevy there are many drivers that know how to take care of a classic Chevy and would be very interested in sitting down in that fresh smelling upholstery seat and experiencing that powerful motor vibrate through her legs, up her thighs, tickling her butt, then upwards. VARRROOOM!!!!*
> Nothing does it like a healthy small block Chevy with perfectly working rods!!!



This is all exactly true. Shes claiming she is a different person now and doesn't recognize the person she was then (probably because she had lost 65 lbs for him, from 200 to 135 through diet discipline and exercise and now has gained lots of it back). So I'm telling her that her loyalty and trust account is severely over drawn so she can slowly build it back up by proving to me I'm her one and only forever....I don't have to be here waiting while she does that. In a few years if she has done as she professes she will do, then perhaps we can date again. But she will have to compete for my attention now. And I make great money and have every freedom of my schedule. So i plan on taking some of these young cute, sweet girls to the Caribbean and Hawaii and europe etc. 

But i still pay all of her bills cause she is the mother of my children and i still care for her deeply.


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## alte Dame

Emptyshelldad said:


> .... And I make great money and have every freedom of my schedule. So i plan on taking some of these young cute, sweet girls to the Caribbean and Hawaii and europe etc.
> 
> But i still pay all of her bills cause she is the mother of my children and i still care for her deeply.


Well, you sound very conflicted, which is understandable. She cheated, lied, and hurt you.

I hope you continue to detach. You are young and have lots of time and opportunity to find someone honest to share your life with.


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## aug

Emptyshelldad said:


> This is all exactly true. *Shes claiming she is a different person now and doesn't recognize the person she was then (probably because she had lost 65 lbs for him, from 200 to 135 through diet discipline and exercise and now has gained lots of it back).* *So I'm telling her that her loyalty and trust account is severely over drawn so she can slowly build it back up by proving to me I'm her one and only forever.*...I don't have to be here waiting while she does that. In a few years if she has done as she professes she will do, then perhaps we can date again. But she will have to compete for my attention now. And I make great money and have every freedom of my schedule. So i plan on taking some of these young cute, sweet girls to the Caribbean and Hawaii and europe etc.
> 
> But i still pay all of her bills cause she is the mother of my children and i still care for her deeply.


I dont think you should be paying all her bills. She should pull her own weight now.

Speaking of weight, she did a lot of hard work to lose the 65 lbs for the other man. But she did not do that for you before. And she not doing that now it seems if she gaining it all back. Shows you where her head is at.


----------



## aug

Emptyshelldad said:


> Quote - "You're only 30. This thing about the classic chevy had me thinking you are decades older."
> 
> Yeah I'm one of those many hat kind of guys. So I have a thing for classic cars and classic rock. After all they are called classic for a reason. I mean no one is gonna be singing j-lo songs twenty years from now. In fact, I specifically chose j-lo so that some of you reading this would be like "oh yeah that's right she had a couple hits several years ago....I totally forgot."
> 
> But not many of my peers share my unique taste in classic cars. But the backseat of a classic is roomy, enough to really get acrobatic in the coital copluation.  So I think guys who think newer cars are better, are speaking to their lack of skills and confidence at getting a girl in the backseat at all.....they probably think the back seat is there in case you have to haul more than 2 people.....HA! Fools..



Who's j-lo?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *
> So I have a thing for classic cars and classic rock. After all they are called classic for a reason.*



Some people say that today’s youth are goofy. However, we can see with Emptyshelldad that the youth can be as bright as or brighter than we old dogs.

I had a 57 Chevy (327-4speed) in the 1960s and a 1965 Chevy in the 1970s.

I love Elvis, Beach Boys, the Beatles, the Stones, Rod Stewart, Linda Ronstadt, and Bob Seger to name just a few.

Anyone that does not love chevs and the 50s, 60s, and 70s music does not know what classic is!

*Keep blowing the doors off those foreign cars with your chevy and Rock on Emptyshelldad !!!!!!!!*


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Conflicted to a point over the babies. She and the rest of my family are masters at using them to guilt me. They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family. They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true. But a mistaken with no consequences is one that is doomed to be repeated over and over. 

Hell even mistakes with consequences are scarcely learned from. So this is all about the fact that she will realize that she lost us, and it's important to end the old us completely and we can both decide if we want to pursue the new us free from obligation. But I'm sure ill see if she really wants me when she sees how easily I can move on. It's an extension of the 180 I guess. But it's for me to find whether or not I want to stay with her, or if I'm just staying cause I'm comfortable or afraid to leave.


----------



## alte Dame

Emptyshelldad said:


> Conflicted to a point over the babies. She and the rest of my family are masters at using them to guilt me. They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family. They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true. But a mistaken with no consequences is one that is doomed to be repeated over and over.
> 
> Hell even mistakes with consequences are scarcely learned from. So this is all about the fact that she will realize that she lost us, and it's important to end the old us completely and we can both decide if we want to pursue the new us free from obligation. But I'm sure ill see if she really wants me when she sees how easily I can move on. It's an extension of the 180 I guess. But it's for me to find whether or not I want to stay with her, or if I'm just staying cause I'm comfortable or afraid to leave.


This sounds very reasonable to me. I urge you to stick with your program.

You might want to read Rookie4's thread.


----------



## LongWalk

Are you divorced already?

How long was her affair?

Why does she over eat. There is special term in German for fat gained when you are collapsing emotionally.

Sounds like you still love her. I suspect that if you have sex with a few women your ability to recover affection for your WW will disappear.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Mr Blunt

Quick recap

Your wife has betrayed the family by choosing another man over you and her children.

The betrayal lasted months/years?

She has been desperate to get you back for about 6 months
You are hurt but still love your wife and children
You want to experience the single life for now
You are willing to consider R after your wife has shown for months/years that you are now number one
Some family members are trying to use the children to guilt you


Emptyshelldad
*Is this recap accurate?
What did I leave out*


----------



## Mr Blunt

> She’s claiming she is a different person now and doesn't recognize the person she was then (probably because she had lost 65 lbs for him, from 200 to 135 through diet discipline and exercise and now has gained lots of it back). So I'm telling her that her loyalty and trust account is severely over drawn so she can slowly build it back up by proving to me I'm her one and only forever....




She is lucky that you are willing to let her try to build back up the loyalty and trust. I have seen many spouses that have been betrayed not give any more chances at all.
Just because she claims she is a different person now does not mean that she will not experience the consequences. *I wonder if she is going to lose weight back down to 135 for you? *Another way that she could start convincing you that you are her one and only is for her to take actions NOW and in the next several years that PROVES her loyalty and trustworthiness’. Talk without action to back up the talk is just a bunch hot stinky air. *Trying to use words and not do the actions necessary is insulting.*

I do not know your whole story but unless you are Charles Manson and a child molester your wife has no excuse. If you were a terrible husband then she should have divorced you and then she could live her life the way she wants.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Conflicted to a point over the babies. *She and the rest of my family are masters at using them to guilt me. They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family.* They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true. But a mistaken with no consequences is one that is doomed to be repeated over and over.




Tell “the rest of the family” that your wife abandon you and the children to satisfy her selfishness. In addition you never abandoning the marriage vows; she did. *Tell them that not only did you NOT abandon the family but that you will be glad to sign the legal papers to make you 100% custodian of the children.* That is legal proof that you have no intension of abandoning the children the way that their mother did.



Now I am not promoting revenge and hatred but the truth has to be out in the open. I know you love your children and remember that the children will need their mom healthy. That is not to say that you have to fix her but so that you do not let revenge and hatred damage her even more than she has damaged herself.


----------



## 3putt

Love this post!!

As a former classic Chevy owner myself ('71 Camaro), simply well done. Great analogy.


----------



## LostViking

If you are a classic Chevy, she must be an AMC Gremlin.


----------



## Headspin

Emptyshelldad said:


> Conflicted to a point over the babies. She and the rest of my family are masters at using them to guilt me. *They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family.* They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true. But a mistaken with no consequences is one that is doomed to be repeated over and over.
> 
> Hell even mistakes with consequences are scarcely learned from. So this is all about the fact that she will realize that she lost us, and it's important to end the old us completely and we can both decide if we want to pursue the new us free from obligation. But I'm sure ill see if she really wants me when she sees how easily I can move on. It's an extension of the 180 I guess. But it's for me to find whether or not I want to stay with her, or if I'm just staying cause I'm comfortable or afraid to leave.


_They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family_

Beautiful -and yet what she did was.. er, not abandon her family then ?! No of course not

This is what never ceases to amaze me, the perception of all those around infidelity - they simply have not the slightest idea about what all this is, what it means 

You are "abandoning" her and your family 

FKSAKES :scratchhead:


----------



## Emptyshelldad

manticore said:


> I found your post in other thread and sucks what she did to you man, and using her father as excuse make me have 0 emphaty for her (for not calling her all the names in the book).
> 
> some questions and observations if you don't mind.
> 
> - How did you find?. She obviously was playing as if she was improving the marriage and not fixing it for her affair.
> 
> 
> I found out because I I had been thinking of additional things I could do to keep our very happy relationship going well. One of them was that I was trying to begin enjoying and participating in more hobbies and things she enjoys. One of them was Facebook. I never even did Facebook or myspace but she always wanted me to.
> 
> So one night when she had run to the bathroom to prepare the way women do for having sex, she was quite giddy about it too. We were really in a good place. This was may 22nd 2011. Around 11pm. I didn't know what Facebook was or what it was about and I picked up her phone because she was the Facebook expert and was on it all the time.
> 
> I spent the next few mins looking around her Facebook and saw that it was kinda like MySpace but less customizable, so I found it kinda lame. But I saw at the top of the screen some icons so with numbers on them so I clicked one and it was messages.........I'll post in more detail later, but I saw enough in there to make me see flirting that was way over the line. And some messages to friends talking about the way he made her feel seventeen again.
> 
> I got nervous and quickly out the phone down. When she returned to the bed I asked her about her Facebook and how it worked....etc. she was eager to show me, but sidestepped me when I asked her about the messages icon by saying she has to show the beginning stuff before I see the more advanced features so I don't get confused. Inlet her believe that I fell for this.
> 
> Then I went through her friends list and asked her if she thought any of the guy friends on there were hotter than me.....we then went through her list and she explained how she knew each one....then each time we hit a guy, ID ask she though he was cuter than me etc. this way it wouldn't seem off when I asked her about him. When we got to him,she was visibly nervous....at least visible to me. Then she told me a bit about him more than the others.
> 
> We finished the list, and I said I just get nervous because I've always loved her and found her attractive but now that she has lost a bunch of weight, other guys were taking notice of how good she looked......and she did look good. She is very very pretty and even heavier still looked beautiful but now, with her body rocking she was an absolute knockout. I told her that now other guys would start to pursue her because of her bod, and I worried that she may forget that I loved her always, and that we had been together since I was 17.
> 
> At this she began to cry. I asked why she was crying and she said she was just so hurt that I didn't obviously didn't trust her. This was the beginning if the poisoning and fire that would burn our beautiful love garden to the ash, and transform it from a wonderful place that friends and family used as a benchmark by which to measure all real love against, into a barren wasteland of ash and ember.....where only I would remain.
> 
> I spent the rest of the evening after she fell asleep scouring her phone and busting into her email which had the password changed on it. But she didn't change the backup reset email password so I reset the password and logged into gmail acct and used it to get new yahoo password reset to her old password (this way if she wondered why her password was changed, she would just try what it was before and assume that the system at yahoo had had some sort of fault and it reverted back to previous password. Which worked beautifully)
> 
> I found really I needed to prove at least EA but as most guys feel i could easily get over ea, but if it had gone physical........(insert sound of something beautiful innocent and pure dying a most gruesome and unjust death)
> 
> I knew that her sister had some knowledge so I text her and my ww lover in hopes of confirming physical. This was a mistake in hindsight. I regret it still. Because It showed my hand I could not go back now. I had made it obligatory that I had to confront before my ww talked to her sister which meant I had to now keep my wife's phone and blasé it's sudden disappearance on my four year old.
> 
> He was an old high school crush of hers and he had a crush on her too, and reconnected on Facebook.
> 
> I found out all I needed to know from her sister, and her om didn't reply or so I thought. Turns out she had a hidden message app made by a company called second phone apps. Which will effectively hide an incoming and outgoing text into an innocent looking program.
> 
> They have lots of options for the decoy....depending on what you are likely to be into as to now arouse suspicion from any prying eyes. In this case my ww had used a calorie counter program. This is why, when people say they check to phone and see nothing or just benign texts, it's so important that they go to the google play store or apple store from the device and look at the list of "my apps" in google and "purchases" in iPhone. This will clearly list most hidden text apps as they will be aptly named "hide my texts" or something similar.
> 
> Anyhow that's the "short" answer to how I began to find out. It is so much worse, I'll have to perhaps post it in my journal or something sometime but it will be long and detailed.
> 
> 
> - Did you burn the OM with his wife?, if not you should.
> 
> 
> You bet your ass I burned him and bad. I didn't go to his wife.....too many ways that could go easy for him....and I wanted him hurting bad......so the wife, he can sweep it up with an I'm sorry and she will be ashamed and embarrassed if it ever came out so she will have all that to consider when she thinks about leaving him.
> 1) First rule of war....know thine enemy
> 
> So I researched wifey for a while and got her maiden name which then led me to research and find the person I really wanted to inform. I found mother in law. The quintessential nemesis to the son in law. And she would tell the whole family ASAP about what. Piece of sh!t this guy really is.
> 
> There will be almost no chance wife will stay with him when the constant pressure and immediate divorce support of mom and dad come into it. They will have a war chest of money and attorneys already waiting to bash the guy who hurt their daughter. And with the details I would give mom in law, that hatred would burn with the fire of a thousand suns.
> 
> I arranged to meet mom in law in San Diego as this was where she and other man lived. Mom in law was heavily involved in the LDS Mormon church. In my experience, not a real forgiving bunch. She was in charge of some sort of LDS singles groups that put on dances and social events for LDS singles to mingle. Very smart this church, I've always been impressed with them on so many levels. I posed as a guy new to town, too shy to attend without meeting with her and asking lots of questions to be sure I would be ok with going.
> 
> Met with her apologized and started showing her the details and told her I came to her because she would know how to best handle and support her daughter during this tough time.
> 
> I do admit now that I was being pretty callous to the wife's feelings at this time. She would not get the choice to keep the humiliation quite and looking back, I feel bad for that aspect alone, but I can't say I wouldn't have done it the same way if I had to do it over again.
> 
> It proved very effective. Lets just say they were divorced within six months, and she got everything, house, kids, and support money......he now lives so meagerly that he now ain't got the money afford the water.......to create the piss.....so that he wouldn't have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of. And it devastated him, the loss of his family and boy......he is still shambles....and I doubt he thinks now, the juice was worth the squeeze. But when you fu(k with this bull, you get the horns rammed so far up your a$$ that they come out your mouth and you look like a little d!(k douche bag kabob.
> And for those wondering.......I don't regret that one bit. In fact the smile on my face is so large at this moment now, it's probably illegal in most states.
> 
> 
> - so her sister knew about the affair? if yes, that sucks, you should cut her complety from you life and your kids life, and tell your kids in the future how his aunt was a facilitator for her mom's affair.
> 
> 
> Yes she knew and actively helped ww hide it and pursue it. She was only 19 but she is dead to me and I don't allow her to have any contact with my children at all. I don't need them being corrupted by such sinister and morally bankrupt people.
> 
> 
> - For what I understand OM was in a different city, what was she expecting?, for both of them to divorce and then move a and left with your kids?, if yes, no man you should never consider reconciliation with her (just my opinion).
> 
> 
> Yes lived in another city, my ww hometown. And she claims and all communication supports no plans for future. But my ww deleted the text logs on her phones hidden app just as soon as she got access to it again on DDay. Or D-week really for me.
> 
> 
> - what you and her family said about the whole thing?. I mean he used her dying father as excuse to f*ck another man.
> 
> 
> I told only her mom and only because I knew she would turn to her mother for advice and support and it was necessary that mom knew what was. Going on so she could offer support in the appropriate way with all knowledge. Otherwise it would seem like I was being an ass for no good reason.
> 
> I however begged her not to tell her husband, my father in law, whom I loved so dearly, I'm crying as I write this. But I have a belief that a persons last times on this earth should be easy and happy, and they should get to do whatever they want. And I didn't want him leaving this earth looking at my wife, his beloved daughter....with anything but pride and admiration. And my mother in law agreed.
> 
> I also have regret over having told her to keep this from her husband. Because i do believe all relationships should be based on a foundation of honesty. If my mother in law had shown more maturity in how she treated me in relation to her daughter, this would not have been necessary. But she constantly stuck her nose into our great relationship and tried to find fault which was on all accounts, a sad thing to witness as we had a great life and it was such an obvious attempt to pick at strings, that no one ever took her seriously. It was quite transparent that my mother in law was projecting the feelings she clearly hadn't dealt with from her first marriage onto us, or rather me. Her first marriage was bad and she never forgave him because he cheated and left her. So this was not a crow samich, not a crow meal, but a crow feast for my mother in law.
> 
> The sister didn't know I knew. I let her hang her self badly so that I had no doubts whatsoever what kindnof core character she possessed. Turns out its largely rotten.
> 
> 
> IS good that you are in a better place now. wish you the best man.


----------



## LongWalk

So what happened after Dday? Did your wife move out? Or you?

By the way, it was very clever the way you got her to review her FB males friends.

Was your FIL ill with cancer or something?



> They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family





> Beautiful -and yet what she did was.. er, not abandon her family then ?! No of course not
> 
> This is what never ceases to amaze me, the perception of all those around infidelity - they simply have not the slightest idea about what all this is, what it means


I guess it would be fair to say you abandoned the shell and walls that remained once she destroyed the contract between husband and wife. So the BS who divorces is deserting the children. Of course the WS was the first to desert. What they did to the children is rug swept because they are willing to reconcile.

Did you marry in a church? Did you pay attention to the vows? Before the infidelity did it ever puzzle you that the vows have no legal meaning?


----------



## CH

Same story like the one posted by Imadeamistake, instead you just used a Chevy to tell the story from the BS side. But still a great read.


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> So what happened after Dday? Did your wife move out? Or you?
> 
> By the way, it was very clever the way you got her to review her FB males friends.
> 
> Was your FIL ill with cancer or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it would be fair to say you abandoned the shell and walls that remained once she destroyed the contract between husband and wife. So the BS who divorces is deserting the children. Of course the WS was the first to desert. What they did to the children is rug swept because they are willing to reconcile.
> 
> Did you marry in a church? Did you pay attention to the vows? Before the infidelity did it ever puzzle you that the vows have no legal meaning?


Maybe you could put your vows in a prenup witnessed by the minister.


----------



## just got it 55

Headspin said:


> I'm 58
> 
> I kinda feel I should qualify for the 'classic' !
> 
> :smthumbup:


I am 58 as well but my wife would say I qualify as an antique


----------



## hope4family

From an empathy standpoint. Let me say the following. 

As a near 30 year old man. Married 2 years, divorced with 1 kid. I did get majority shared time with our son. To this day, i'm not sure if that helps my pride, or hurts it more. 

I relate to the Chevy story. I drive a 10 Camaro, but its my fourth Camaro. Something fun about those 3rd gens, even though, they are still not my favorite (1st gen). 

I relate to the feeling of emptiness. I am semi-experiencing single life. But not really as I have my son most days, and i'm finding a hit or miss on the buffet of female options. 

As a man with a son full time. I crave a female partner. But I understand, that anything I do, has to start from square 1. So, because I have a son, I do not want to compromise either. I've turned down offers, and recently even got rejected by a female I had a pinning to. 

It's a journey friend. You aren't alone.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> So what happened after Dday? Did your wife move out? Or you?
> 
> 
> Well i wanted to keep this from my children until i really decided and had time to know that was what was happening. and also i feel the older they are when they find out the better off for them. I took a job working in North dakota that would require me to be gone for a month to two months at atime and only home for a week when i did get time off. so I would basically be gone right away. but it isnt the same as being fully seperated. because i still pay almost everything but this is because she is willing to move here to minot about 50 miles from where i work and that would mean my babies are near their daddy. and that would be a great thing for me and them. so im a very giving and flexible guy so long as she is being the same in return. this is in stark contrast to those who become doormats and their wives treat them horribly and they still give. all in all my ex treats me and our relationship very well. she is feeling like she wants no other man so she is not even been dating or talking with anyone like that. but then again thats what she was supposed to be doing while we were together.
> 
> 
> Yes her father was ill with cancer....small cell carcenoma and stage 4 when diagnosed...only 57.....and non smoker......worked construction though all his life commercially so it likely had something to do with that. i miss him daily, we were very close. i mean i knew him closely since i was 17
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, it was very clever the way you got her to review her FB males friends.
> 
> Was your FIL ill with cancer or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it would be fair to say you abandoned the shell and walls that remained once she destroyed the contract between husband and wife. So the BS who divorces is deserting the children. Of course the WS was the first to desert. What they did to the children is rug swept because they are willing to reconcile.
> 
> Did you marry in a church? Did you pay attention to the vows? Before the infidelity did it ever puzzle you that the vows have no legal meaning?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

hope4family said:


> From an empathy standpoint. Let me say the following.
> 
> As a near 30 year old man. Married 2 years, divorced with 1 kid. I did get majority shared time with our son. To this day, i'm not sure if that helps my pride, or hurts it more.
> 
> I relate to the Chevy story. I drive a 10 Camaro, but its my fourth Camaro. Something fun about those 3rd gens, even though, they are still not my favorite (1st gen).
> 
> I relate to the feeling of emptiness. I am semi-experiencing single life. But not really as I have my son most days, and i'm finding a hit or miss on the buffet of female options.
> 
> As a man with a son full time. I crave a female partner. But I understand, that anything I do, has to start from square 1. So, because I have a son, I do not want to compromise either. I've turned down offers, and recently even got rejected by a female I had a pinning to.
> 
> It's a journey friend. You aren't alone.


*Im sorry to hear this bro. I have always been a ladies man, but much to the many attempts of employees, waitresses, friends of my sisters, and other women.......i was faithfil fully......one time even an attractive female employee of mine stayed late with me at the mall where i owned some stores. one of which was a christmas ornament personilization store and this girl was the hardest worker id ever hired. and we talked and worked together regularly. but i wanted to decorate the stand and she wanted to hours and loved christmas too so she volunteered to stay after closing and help. it was nearing midnight when she went to the ipod and selected "santa baby" by eartha kitt. and she procedded to do dance around very provocativly and it only then occurred to me.....that all her behaviors in the past few weeeks......might have been geared in another way........i was so i love with my wife and our life that I didnt even notice her outwardly obvious advances......i asked her "what are you doing?" and she just kept up eye contact and came closer still dancing, trying to get me to engage her....and I was like "um brittney......while im obviously flattered, i uh.....am very much in love with my wife.....and hope you understand i would never do anything to hurt her." she kinda coyly played it off and finished her dance as though that wasnt at all what she had in mind......but i noticed an abrupt coolness in her behavior in the weeks thereafter..........

So I had then lots of opportunites and have even more now. but I admit women are problems mostly and I plan to "forget chicks, stack cash" thats my motto as of late. but i still plan to have much fun eventually....perhaps take some really beauties to belize and hawaii or maybe thailand or new zealand.....but id dont think ill let anyone as close as my wife was to my heart....after all it nearly killed me....
But i think if you work out and practive really social and very flirty, then the female buffet will open up for unlimited servings for you my friend. 

Ave tyou read the married man sexual primer book yet.....i think it will help as everyone whom has read it is saying its must read material. *


----------



## MovingAhead

I loved your analogy. I actually enjoy the whole single dad thing. I am much closer to my sons.


----------



## BobSimmons

Emptyshelldad said:


> Yeah it's very rare indeed that a person who strays doesn't look back on it with real regret. Unless they are a narcissistic sosciopath.....which seems to go hand in hand with a lot of cheater type personalities.
> 
> She never stops telling me how that space in her "garage" will always be mine and she will never let anyone else park there again.
> But this life on the open road is pretty appealing. She probably didn't realize at the time but by giving me reason to question being with her, the females come out in droves, and it made me realize just how hot a commodity good men are. Those of us in rare form are, indeed, in rare supply.
> *I'm 30* and have the open highway of life before me......it's my choice where I drive to now.


At 30 it's not even the prime of your life. If you have your own house..let's just say heaven would not be a promise, it would be a reality.


----------



## BobSimmons

Emptyshelldad said:


> Conflicted to a point over the babies. She and the rest of my family are masters at using them to guilt me. They tell me they can't believe I would "abandon" my family. They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true. But* a mistaken with no consequences is one that is doomed to be repeated over and over.*
> 
> Hell even mistakes with consequences are scarcely learned from. So this is all about the fact that she will realize that she lost us, and it's important to end the old us completely and we can both decide if we want to pursue the new us free from obligation. But I'm sure ill see if she really wants me when she sees how easily I can move on. It's an extension of the 180 I guess. But it's for me to find whether or not I want to stay with her, or if I'm just staying cause I'm comfortable or afraid to leave.


One of the truest words ever spoken. But most pertinently the fact there is rug sweeping and guilt tripping going on without having the respect to let you make whatever decision you need to make, as is your right, alone, shows that the mistake has not been learned, more that she saw what she had to lose, a good man who would pay for her lifestyle and she'll do anything to keep that.

I think also what you wrote about the weight is telling. It may seem misogynistic and it shouldn't matter that she gained the weight back but it does. You, are the comfortable old shoe, she doesn't have seduce you or as sexy inside as she does outside. With OM, with that weight off, she felt sexy, it added to the potency of the excitement. Now she doesn't have the motivation to keep fit because it's just you. Her comfortable old shoe.


----------



## LongWalk

She is probably putting on _kummerspeck_, German for grief fat, resulting from emotional over eating.

She may also feel that she does not want to be sexy because she got into trouble by being hotter. But she may not have it figured out in her own head.

If you were to reconcile, she might lose weight without trying too hard. You wouldn't have to say much. A lot of women like sex with ankles over their heads. When they look down the extra rolls show. Should motivate diet and exercise.

What happened when you exposed the affair? Did you go dark except for your kids?

Seems like you still love your ex quite a bit. Maybe writing here is helping you flush the residue of her out. Good if she an unremorseful woman. 

Does she tell you that she is not dating and is waiting and hoping for a second chance? Seems like the move to follow you is good.

Have you ever even hugged her since you broke up?

If she is dying inside when is the right time to bring her in from the cold?

Have you read JustGrinding's letter to his wife?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> She is probably putting on _kummerspeck_, German for grief fat, resulting from emotional over eating.
> 
> She may also feel that she does not want to be sexy because she got into trouble by being hotter. But she may not have it figured out in her own head.
> 
> If you were to reconcile, she might lose weight without trying too hard. You wouldn't have to say much. A lot of women like sex with ankles over their heads. When they look down the extra rolls show. Should motivate diet and exercise.
> 
> What happened when you exposed the affair? Did you go dark except for your kids?
> 
> -------This is a long detailed question or answer at least. I took a job in north dakota that would require me to be gone for one to three or more months at a time. so in effect it helped us to separate. but I still dont hang her out to dry financially. this is a big part of the reason she is willing to move here.
> 
> I didnt go dark, we still talk regularly and truthfully my wife is very remorseful and not at all really like a lot of these other guys wifes. a lot of stories i read on here, im like "bro, you lack confidence big time......your wife treats you like a unich an you accept that role. I run the show in my house and my wife may have forgotten that for a while but let me tell you....she sure knows it now.
> 
> 
> Seems like you still love your ex quite a bit. Maybe writing here is helping you flush the residue of her out. Good if she an unremorseful woman.
> 
> -------on the contrary, she is very much remorseful but that doesnt always equal guaranteed reconcile. I get the choice to decide freely if i want to build a new relationship because i considered our marriage dead as soon as I found out or as soon as she consumated her relationship with other man. There is no "continue the marriage or work on the marraige, because the old marriage is dead by default......though you can choose to build another one, but thats a choice for both parties to make.....however i feel that the betrayed spouse should get an ability to live alone and so should the ws so they can both decide if they really want the other person, or if they are just staying out of fear or feeling of responsibility or obligation.
> 
> 
> Does she tell you that she is not dating and is waiting and hoping for a second chance? Seems like the move to follow you is good.
> 
> -----yes she is telling me she wont date anyone else ever. partly because she knows im not fully decided on not being with her. but i want to know if i want to build a new life with her, or just continue on my own. and I believe the bs is entitled to that choice.
> Have you ever even hugged her since you broke up?
> 
> ----yes we have done waaayyy more than that since we broke up......its like we are dating but each has his and her choice how the relationship goes, and for me she is still a great friend and I still care for her deeply. but thats not enough to build a marriage on a cracked and broken foundation of trust.
> 
> 
> If she is dying inside when is the right time to bring her in from the cold?
> 
> -----she put herslef in the cold, and im afraid i cant bring her back in, only she can do that. i dont treat her coldly and she mostly is dissapointed in her choices and the regret of losing "us" due to those decisions. but she didnt do a lot of what i asked her to do to help with recovery....no tex logg, no timeline, and she hasnt really even read much about affairs. she even bought a book right after her affari partner cooled it down with her by letting her know that they both have families and this is a just a side thing for him....not his words but basically his meaning. she bought "his needs, her needs how to affair proof your marriage" and read about ten pages and since then hasnt read any more of it. nor any other info about affairs or marriages. pretty dissapointing.
> 
> 
> Have you read JustGrinding's letter to his wife?


---no i havent if you link it somehow id love to read it though.


----------



## azteca1986

Emptyshelldad said:


> ---no i havent if you link it somehow id love to read it though.


Here you go mate

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74737-you-re-sorry.html


----------



## Headspin

hope4family said:


> From an empathy standpoint. Let me say the following.
> 
> As a near 30 year old man. Married 2 years, divorced with 1 kid. I did get majority shared time with our son. To this day, i'm not sure if that helps my pride, or hurts it more.
> 
> I relate to the Chevy story. I drive a 10 Camaro, but its my fourth Camaro. Something fun about those 3rd gens, even though, they are still not my favorite (1st gen).
> 
> I relate to the feeling of emptiness. I am semi-experiencing single life. But not really as I have my son most days, and i'm finding a hit or miss on the buffet of female options.
> 
> As a man with a son full time. I crave a female partner. But I understand, that anything I do, has to start from square 1. So, because I have a son, I do not want to compromise either. I've turned down offers, and recently even got rejected by a female I had a pinning to.
> 
> It's a journey friend. You aren't alone.


Listen up man, one of the greatest attractions females have is seeing men being natural and cool with their kids especially if you are taking on what historically, they are meant to be best at - child rearing 

Don't try too hard and they will appear :smthumbup:


----------



## LongWalk

You can have sex with your ex, but not want marriage. Makes sense given that she thought OM was a new marriage while she was just tail to him. So now she is just tail to you... Perhaps a little more, but you just learned from the other man how you could treat her.

If you have other women, do you plan to tell your wife?

It feels like you want to really drive the lesson home to her, so that she feels the pain you felt.

What were the consequences for OM?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Yes I plan to tell her that I am seeing other people. She will have to work and compete for my attention the same way she had me competing (albeit without knowing it) for her attention when she was trying to sneak away with other man during our family vacation to San Diego three weeks before DDay. 

As far as other man goes: a quick repost from my earlier response:

You bet your ass I burned him and bad. I didn't go to his wife.....too many ways that could go easy for him....and I wanted him hurting bad......so the wife, he can sweep it up with an I'm sorry and she will be ashamed and embarrassed if it ever came out so she will have all that to consider when she thinks about leaving him. 
1) First rule of war....know thine enemy

So I researched wifey for a while and got her maiden name which then led me to research and find the person I really wanted to inform. I found mother in law. The quintessential nemesis to the son in law. And she would tell the whole family ASAP about what. Piece of sh!t this guy really is. 

There will be almost no chance wife will stay with him when the constant pressure and immediate divorce support of mom and dad come into it. They will have a war chest of money and attorneys already waiting to bash the guy who hurt their daughter. And with the details I would give mom in law, that hatred would burn with the fire of a thousand suns. 

I arranged to meet mom in law in San Diego as this was where she and other man lived. Mom in law was heavily involved in the LDS Mormon church. In my experience, not a real forgiving bunch. She was in charge of some sort of LDS singles groups that put on dances and social events for LDS singles to mingle. Very smart this church, I've always been impressed with them on so many levels. I posed as a guy new to town, too shy to attend without meeting with her and asking lots of questions to be sure I would be ok with going. 

Met with her apologized and started showing her the details and told her I came to her because she would know how to best handle and support her daughter during this tough time. 

I do admit now that I was being pretty callous to the wife's feelings at this time. She would not get the choice to keep the humiliation quite and looking back, I feel bad for that aspect alone, but I can't say I wouldn't have done it the same way if I had to do it over again. 

It proved very effective. Lets just say they were divorced within six months, and she got everything, house, kids, and support money......he now lives so meagerly that he now ain't got the money afford the water.......to create the piss.....so that he wouldn't have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of. And it devastated him, the loss of his family and boy......he is still shambles....and I doubt he thinks now, the juice was worth the squeeze. But when you fu(k with this bull, you get the horns rammed so far up your a$$ that they come out your mouth and you look like a little d!(k douche bag kabob.
And for those wondering.......I don't regret that one bit. In fact the smile on my face is so large at this moment now, it's probably illegal in most states.


----------



## warlock07

Emptyshelldad said:


> This is all exactly true. Shes claiming she is a different person now and doesn't recognize the person she was then (probably because she had lost 65 lbs for him, from 200 to 135 through diet discipline and exercise and now has gained lots of it back). So I'm telling her that her loyalty and trust account is severely over drawn so she can slowly build it back up by proving to me I'm her one and only forever....I don't have to be here waiting while she does that. In a few years if she has done as she professes she will do, then perhaps we can date again. But she will have to compete for my attention now. And I make great money and have every freedom of my schedule. So i plan on taking some of these young cute, sweet girls to the Caribbean and Hawaii and europe etc.
> 
> But i still pay all of her bills cause she is the mother of my children and i still care for her deeply.


Did you go through the divorce ?


----------



## warlock07

Emptyshelldad said:


> This is all exactly true. Shes claiming she is a different person now and doesn't recognize the person she was then (probably because she had lost 65 lbs for him, from 200 to 135 through diet discipline and exercise and now has gained lots of it back). So I'm telling her that her loyalty and trust account is severely over drawn so she can slowly build it back up by proving to me I'm her one and only forever....I don't have to be here waiting while she does that. In a few years if she has done as she professes she will do, then perhaps we can date again. But she will have to compete for my attention now. And I make great money and have every freedom of my schedule. So i plan on taking some of these young cute, sweet girls to the Caribbean and Hawaii and europe etc.
> 
> But i still pay all of her bills cause she is the mother of my children and i still care for her deeply.



This might seem unnecessary cruel, but I would ask her to lose the weight if I were you...

Gaining the weight back after her lover dumped her is kinda insulting to the BS


----------



## LongWalk

Women, even sane ones, can go berserk if you talk about their weight. OP is too smart to do that.

She has moved far from home and is probably isolated. Her choice to stay close to ESD. Loneliness is making her eat.

Shell Dad, is she making friends?

Instead of criticizing shortcomings, it is usually good to praise people for what they do right.

The Chevy analogy shows that ESD is thoughtful person. Is his ex thoughtful? She hasn't read the book about cheating.

ESD did you ever ask her what she thought of it? Does she ever ask what she can do for you? You have every right in the world to date and bed other women. However, the more you do it, the less likely you are ever want LTR with your wife. The sex with other women will appear in the channel of your consciousness, relegating your ex to a compartment.

When she has to deal with the thought of you with others she will lose self confidence. Depressed people evoke pity more than lust.

Maybe Christmas with children and her will help clarify the future.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Emptyshelldad

warlock07 said:


> Did you go through the divorce ?


yes its done. it was very important to me that she knows no matter what, old marriage is done. and whether i choose to try to even date her in the future is completely up to me. also favorable terms aka whatever i asked for in the divororce was a requirement of me even being open to trying again. if she fought me on anything, id never give her another second of my time nor thoughts. and she agreed. really, she is one of the more remorseful spouses you could have. i read of some evil disgusting troglodite women on here that are much worse than mine was. :smthumbup:


----------



## Emptyshelldad

warlock07 said:


> This might seem unnecessary cruel, but I would ask her to lose the weight if I were you...
> 
> Gaining the weight back after her lover dumped her is kinda insulting to the BS


I have asked her, and she claims that she lost the weight then because like it or not, she was happy then and felt motivated to lose it. So I have told her that either she loses it and maintains a healthy eating and workout regimine, or she gets no chance because all the women ive dated so far, and some have had kids, are all with great bodies and healthy habits. so I know it can be done, my ww proved it to me. as far as im concerned, all future relationships will be with the understanding that we both stay in great shape for one another, though ive not had a problem at all in this area. but i feel like its unfair of anyone in the relationship to let themselves go once they are in the relationship, very disrespectful to their spouse.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> Women, even sane ones, can go berserk if you talk about their weight. OP is too smart to do that.
> 
> She has moved far from home and is probably isolated. Her choice to stay close to ESD. Loneliness is making her eat.
> 
> Shell Dad, is she making friends?
> 
> Instead of criticizing shortcomings, it is usually good to praise people for what they do right.
> 
> The Chevy analogy shows that ESD is thoughtful person. Is his ex thoughtful? She hasn't read the book about cheating.
> 
> ESD did you ever ask her what she thought of it? Does she ever ask what she can do for you? You have every right in the world to date and bed other women. However, the more you do it, the less likely you are ever want LTR with your wife. The sex with other women will appear in the channel of your consciousness, relegating your ex to a compartment.
> 
> When she has to deal with the thought of you with others she will lose self confidence. Depressed people evoke pity more than lust.
> 
> Maybe Christmas with children and her will help clarify the future.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


these are all intersting points. but i figure that she got to go try her hand and having other relationship, and you are right, it may never work between us in future. but I wanted to know, that i was staying with her out of real love and not some sense of obligation or fear of being single and "alone". After what she did, this is the only way I can see a reconciliation being a healthy choice for me. it must be made free of any other emotions or thought other than desire to be with her. and it lets her realize that I have lots of options and she should never again give me reason to doubt her absolute loyality and devotion to our love, lest i be looking fondly to being single again.....remember that I have only ever been with my wife sexually up until recently of course. 

I met her when i was seventeen and she was my first, and yes, i had lots of opportunity to lose it before then...i even had a woman with her wetness touching the head of my.....well you know......and begging for me to let her put it in, but I told her that I was saving that for someone i really loved. and she know we had just met so it was far too early for any love to be established. But i got my wife pregnant first time, but i loved her dearly so it didnt matter to me. she was 21 at the time. 

I wish i had known then what i know now, or i wish i had waited or not gotten her pregnant at that young age as I would have learned a great deal more before getting into a marriage. 

well i wont make that mistake twice. and really, im ok if my ww and i dont get back together. i look at it as though she will really to have to prove to me she is one in a million for me to be intersted and want to deal with the shame of staying with a woman who sought ought another man.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Headspin said:


> Listen up man, one of the greatest attractions females have is seeing men being natural and cool with their kids especially if you are taking on what historically, they are meant to be best at - child rearing
> 
> Don't try too hard and they will appear :smthumbup:


i do hear ya on this because im already a great and very loving father to both my two girls. and i always take them everywhere.


----------



## hope4family

Emptyshelldad said:


> *Im sorry to hear this bro. I have always been a ladies man, but much to the many attempts of employees, waitresses, friends of my sisters, and other women.......i was faithfil fully......one time even an attractive female employee of mine stayed late with me at the mall where i owned some stores. one of which was a christmas ornament personilization store and this girl was the hardest worker id ever hired. and we talked and worked together regularly. but i wanted to decorate the stand and she wanted to hours and loved christmas too so she volunteered to stay after closing and help. it was nearing midnight when she went to the ipod and selected "santa baby" by eartha kitt. and she procedded to do dance around very provocativly and it only then occurred to me.....that all her behaviors in the past few weeeks......might have been geared in another way........i was so i love with my wife and our life that I didnt even notice her outwardly obvious advances......i asked her "what are you doing?" and she just kept up eye contact and came closer still dancing, trying to get me to engage her....and I was like "um brittney......while im obviously flattered, i uh.....am very much in love with my wife.....and hope you understand i would never do anything to hurt her." she kinda coyly played it off and finished her dance as though that wasnt at all what she had in mind......but i noticed an abrupt coolness in her behavior in the weeks thereafter..........
> 
> So I had then lots of opportunites and have even more now. but I admit women are problems mostly and I plan to "forget chicks, stack cash" thats my motto as of late. but i still plan to have much fun eventually....perhaps take some really beauties to belize and hawaii or maybe thailand or new zealand.....but id dont think ill let anyone as close as my wife was to my heart....after all it nearly killed me....
> But i think if you work out and practive really social and very flirty, then the female buffet will open up for unlimited servings for you my friend.
> 
> Ave tyou read the married man sexual primer book yet.....i think it will help as everyone whom has read it is saying its must read material. *


Thinking I will buy the primer now. 

Just got through a weekend where I was kissed by two separate women, talked sex with another woman, she offered it, but i'm looking for something more monogamous. 

Talked with my brother about it. It's kinda hard on me because I have my son full time and don't really want another woman around unless they are 100% trusted. That's very hard for me to give.


----------



## LongWalk

Emptyshelldad said:


> yes its done. it was very important to me that she knows no matter what, old marriage is done. and *whether i choose to try to even date her in the future is completely up to me. also favorable terms aka whatever i asked for in the divororce was a requirement of me even being open to trying again. if she fought me on anything, id never give her another second of my time nor thoughts. and she agreed. *really, she is one of the more remorseful spouses you could have. i read of some evil disgusting troglodite women on here that are much worse than mine was. :smthumbup:


That's quite amazing that she took a hit like that financially just for the opportunity to maybe have a chance at reconciliation. Basically, got no alimony then?

There was poster around before, Machiavelli, who had the human reproductive cycles patterns well studied. Women get the itch for strange at certain points. You and your wife married young.

Did she feel that curiosity about strange was underlying drive in her urge to cheat?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

she never said anything like that. I getnthe f2eling she just wanted to fulfill this old high school crush fantasy. 

it actually angers me now to hear her cry and say how stupid it was and that it meant nothing etc etc. i get pissed because I tell her "so you poisened and destroyed our purest of loves for something stupid? that really makes this the worst betrayal. to know that you traded what we had for something that wasnt even that important to you". 

but now as she has made inquiry into some of my plans for my time off, she is getting hurt/pissed that I plan on taking one of the three other women im seeing currently to either belize, bora bora, new zealand, or thailand. she is mad that I never did this for her, and I said I treated you so well and you went and fu(ked another guy, somi had taken you someplace realy nice, then bynthe same logic, you probaly would have fu(ked ten guys. " but she is just hurt I think that I am being so heavily pursued by these three, the oldest of which is 5 years younger than her and the other two are ages 20 and 21 compared to my wifes 33.


----------



## kenmoore14217

"They all believe she made a one time mistake and that may very well be true."

One time mistake, maybe, Life Time Mistake, absolutely!


----------



## LongWalk

So how will you spend Christmas?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Unfortunately I work in the oils fields in North Dakota and I have to stay and work over Christmas. A lot of guys are taking Christmas off but I just can't do it due to some financial goals I must hit very soon. She needs a newer car and so do I. I can't very well have her move over here and not have a car that is in unquestionably good order. It was minus 15 last night when my trusted 97 Subaru overheated and I thought......man....this could be bad. 

But I'm seriously saddened to have to miss Christmas. I've never missed it with my girls before. This is a first. And I'm so sad about it.


----------



## LongWalk

Sounds like a lot of lonely driving in beautiful countryside. But if you car breaks down and you don't have warm clothes and food you have to burn tires.


----------



## LongWalk

How long do you think she'll hang on to the dream or reconciliation?


----------



## Clay2013

Emptyshelldad said:


> Unfortunately I work in the oils fields in North Dakota and I have to stay and work over Christmas. A lot of guys are taking Christmas off but I just can't do it due to some financial goals I must hit very soon. She needs a newer car and so do I. I can't very well have her move over here and not have a car that is in unquestionably good order. It was minus 15 last night when my trusted 97 Subaru overheated and I thought......man....this could be bad.
> 
> But I'm seriously saddened to have to miss Christmas. I've never missed it with my girls before. This is a first. And I'm so sad about it.


You live close to me. I have thought of going up there and working but um its to damn cold. lol Good money I am sure. I don't do bad in the field im working in now. 

Its a good idea to get a newer car. I have thought about it a lot this last year. 

Clay


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Yes the money is good and time off is in larger blocks so you can do a great bit of travel to some cool places with good money in your pocket. 

But you're right clay it's colder than I've ever thought possible. 

I just finished Christmas here alone. I have to admit it made me think hard about my situation and really regret that my wife made all those choices to destroy what we had. And what we had was truly great. But it's amazing how you can build something up for so long then in a few months time raze it all to the ground. 

I did do Christmas morning via video chat from my tablet. So I kinda got to be with my girls this morning. 


As far as how long she will nurse the dream of reconciliation. 
Firstly, I can't say that the term dream really applies. I have thought there is a real possibility that her and I might date again in the future and have some sort of relationship in the future. I doubt marriage for me in the future though.....probably not to anyone. 

I have been listening to Paul Janka (a male empowerment guru) and he preaches that a man gives up so much to go exclusive with one woman. And he believes that most men do it because most women want it and most men don't have an attitude of abundance when it comes to beautiful women. He believes that they act often out of fear that this may be the only beautiful woman that might be interested in them. And I believe as i always have, that people are more motivated by the fear of loss than the prospect for gain. 

Think about it.....if every man had ten beautiful women willing to see him casually and he had the complete confidence that he go out in a single night and get number to ten more, how likely would he be to go into an exclusive relationship. 

It's about the balance of power, the other male guru Dr. Paul who wrote The Man OS, and his a psychologist specializing in male psychology. Which is a field he finds is almost completely lacking in representation and discussion in our feminine dominant western society. Dr Paul teaches that the balance of power is about men only control their resources, and that's their core value biologically. Women on the other hand control whether or not sex happens. So that's core value biologically speaking. So when a man enters into marriage, he has agreed to give most of his resources to the woman and their offspring, and a woman still controls whether or not sex happens. 

So he teaches an entirely different idea of balance, and keeping balance. Because as he sees it, as a man today in the us, it is a female balanced and dominated society. Hence the reason a man feels so wronged in many divorce proceedings. He often still has to give of his resources and yet gets nothing in return. So biologically speaking, according to dr Paul, a man feels violated very similar to if a women was required to still have sex with her ex husband by law, and would face jail if she did not comply. So is a man forced to give his resources or face jail and he has no say in the matter. 

Anywho, I'm sure this will likely lead to me getting hanged here soon from any number of members here on the board, but I hope they can appreciate that I have my own opinions as do they and it's ok if we don't all universally agree.


----------



## LongWalk

There is nothing wrong with exploring human behavior.

The biggest problem I see for you is the effect that this will have on your daughters. If you keep going like this, your ex will end up broken in spirit and that will not make her a good mom.

They may engage in self destructive behavior when they get older, trying to compensate for the insecurity that experienced and witnessed.

If you reconcile without remarrying, you will be able to end it any day that you discover she is disloyal.


----------



## warlock07

> So he teaches an entirely different idea of balance, and keeping balance. Because as he sees it, as a man today in the us, it is a female balanced and dominated society. Hence the reason a man feels so wronged in many divorce proceedings. He often still has to give of his resources and yet gets nothing in return. So biologically speaking, according to dr Paul, a man feels violated very similar to if a women was required to still have sex with her ex husband by law, and would face jail if she did not comply. So is a man forced to give his resources or face jail and he has no say in the matter.


That is an interesting point. Seems fair enough in a situation in which the spouse(male or female) request alimony(not child support) to keep up with the standard of living she had during the marriage


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## LongWalk

Also, when divorce takes place a SAHM gets alimony but the husband gets nothing from her to employee someone to takeover the work she did at home. In other words, he loses one hundred percent of her contribution.

People have to be careful about marriage. It's real crap shoot.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

I am truthfully struggling to see how there are benefits to the man? He could do almost all things outside of the shackles of marriage. In fact I believe that women often look at marriage as something important to them far more so than to the man. Also I believe that women might treat their men differently if they knew he could essily leave at any time. 

In fact I know of so many men that feel trapped in marriage not because they want to stay. It because they fear the financial consequences of divorcing. Whereas if they never married but perhaps live with a woman, then he can leave much more at will. 

And perhaps knowing this would cause each person to be on their best behavior in the relationship if it was truly voluntary. 

I can't say that I would enter into another relationship where I felt like I couldn't leave if I thought it was best for me.


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## LongWalk

I think that all of this true. Why does marriage exist since it is bad for men in many ways? There are reasons that it is good, too. If marriage did not exist and men and women were constantly drifting around. There would be a lot of violence. The men who were alpha would have several women and the beta guys would be jealous and angry.

People would be fighting rivals physically much more often. If people were just shacked up for a child. Then there would be no such thing a cheating. A guy could come home and find another man there and not be do anything except fight.

Sounds crazy but try and imagine a world without the claims of husbands and wives. I am not trying to say marriage really works anymore, but it came into existence for reasons.

Still hope your wife can can get her old car back if she figures out how to take care of it properly. Regular oil change, etc.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> I think that all of this true. Why does marriage exist since it is bad for men in many ways? There are reasons that it is good, too. If marriage did not exist and men and women were constantly drifting around. There would be a lot of violence. The men who were alpha would have several women and the beta guys would be jealous and angry.
> 
> People would be fighting rivals physically much more often. If people were just shacked up for a child. Then there would be no such thing a cheating. A guy could come home and find another man there and not be do anything except fight.
> 
> Sounds crazy but try and imagine a world without the claims of husbands and wives. I am not trying to say marriage really works anymore, but it came into existence for reasons.
> 
> Still hope your wife can can get her old car back if she figures out how to take care of it properly. Regular oil change, etc.


I agree that marriage came about for reasons, but I believe that marriage as it existed before has been corrupted by the injustice of law and government.

It's now a situation when men and women both are often made to feel shackled to their marriage, not for fear of. to having the bond of marriage any longer but for fear of the legal and life changing consequences that are brought on by the government being involved in your choice to live together as husband and wife. and I am not even opposed to making a solid commitment before god in a marriage ceremony.

I am however very against marrying with a legal license and the government involved in my vows to my wife. Forcing unfair and unjust sanctions in those who choose to marry. 

The marriage of old has gone by the wayside and now we have is marriage as a contract. Hence why the divorce courts do not even care about infidelity any more, they don't care about the wife using the child support money for her own getting her hair and nails done with no recourse from dad about how the kids are being brought up or clothed. They care nothing about what is fair and right and who is responsible for the destruction of the marital home. 

I mean look at the stats on children from divorced homes and yet they will not even consider in most cases a man or women who continually made selfish choices that would likely end most marriages ie multiple cheating with no real remorse of any kind. They will say that has no bearing in whether nor not that qualifies them as a bad parent or good parent. No bearing whatsoever. So while all experts agree divorce is very traumatic on children and the stats support a much harder life and woes life circumstances for children of a divorced home, the courts will not connect that selfishness to parenting in any way. 

I probably should slow my roll before I go on a rant and end up saying something controversial :rant:


----------



## Emptyshelldad

I do want to say thank you to those whom have responded thus far to my various thoughts. It does truly help in the healing. Longwalk I appreciate your thought out responses and that you take the time to impart what is really on your mind. Thank you


----------



## hope4family

Can't say I disagree with anything you guys are saying. 

From a mans standpoint, I honestly am trying to figure out what the purpose marriage even is anymore. The promise of living with a like minded person, is to me shattered. It was an unfair standard that doesn't exist in anything but my imagination.

But if it did exist, why are there people here whose idea of marriage are shattered? Why is it so prevalent? Why are so many men & women hurt that their spouses left them for their own various and often selfish reasons? 

We're we all naive? I personally think I was. But, am still trying to figure out if there is purpose in marriage at all. I want a family, Marriage is the best way to accomplish that. But Marriage is no longer permanent to me. So for now, I am at an impasse. I want a family, maybe a couple more kids, Marriage gives the best benefits for growing a family. But, now, it's a contract, that doesn't last as long as you both live.

Why do I feel like the naive one for saying Marriage was supposed to be as long as you both live? Reality is so different.


----------



## LongWalk

Emptyshelldad said:


> I do want to say thank you to those whom have responded thus far to my various thoughts. It does truly help in the healing. Longwalk I appreciate your thought out responses and that you take the time to impart what is really on your mind. Thank you


Thanks, ESD. I like your posts.

I suspect that your want to R with your ex. If she is working on fixing herself, don't be afraid to explore the idea. If you were really 100% done with her, you wouldn't be thinking about the meaning of marriage. Of course, if she can never be the person she wishes she were, then you should let her go to figure out her life without hanging on.

I think you will be able to explain relationships to your children some day.


----------



## bandit.45

I for one will never marry again. I agree with most of the OP's points. 

I'm moving on 46 and I need to start socking money away for retirement. I can't do that constantly dating and wasting my resources on female relationships that will most likely go nowhere. I have plenty of friends and hobbies to keep me from getting lonely. That's why I no longer date, and it will be a long long time before I ever consider having a girlfriend again.

OP say goodbye to your fWW for good. Getting back together with her would be selling yourself short. You can do so much better. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sandfly

hope4family said:


> Can't say I disagree with anything you guys are saying.
> 
> From a mans standpoint, I honestly am trying to figure out what the purpose marriage even is anymore. The promise of living with a like minded person, is to me shattered. It was an unfair standard that doesn't exist in anything but my imagination.
> 
> But if it did exist, why are there people here whose idea of marriage are shattered? Why is it so prevalent? Why are so many men & women hurt that their spouses left them for their own various and often selfish reasons?
> 
> We're we all naive? I personally think I was. But, am still trying to figure out if there is purpose in marriage at all. I want a family, Marriage is the best way to accomplish that. But Marriage is no longer permanent to me. So for now, I am at an impasse. I want a family, maybe a couple more kids, Marriage gives the best benefits for growing a family. But, now, it's a contract, that doesn't last as long as you both live.
> 
> Why do I feel like the naive one for saying Marriage was supposed to be as long as you both live? Reality is so different.


I agree. There is no reason anymore to get married, and thanks to a recent change in the law in England which recognises co-habitation as 'marriage' in terms of property (something your average Brit doesn't know) there is an absolute imperative not to even move in with someone.

Children are automatically awarded to mothers up to the age of 6, and continued custody is presumed up to 18.

Furthermore, the state is quick to collect child payments from fathers, but will literally never intervene to enforce visitation - it's practically voluntary on the mother's part, the judge can order, but the order is never enforced. One man has been getting court orders in his favour for 12 years to see his kids, so far none have been enforced.

You'd have to be a complete SUCKER to marry an Englishwoman nowadays. Such terrible entitlement and daddy issues.

Marriage for men carries no benefits whatsoever.

And the chances of finding a woman who wants an equal payer and not someone who has more money? Nil.

The sooner real equality comes, and stops favouring delinquent females, the better.


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## Emptyshelldad

Yes you can have all the benefits of married life, and just choose not to marry. You can even do a commitment ceremony in front of god and witnesses but never actually marry in the eyes of the government. And if asked why, simply explain that you believe marriage and more so divorce are not a fair game and that you don't desire to play any game where you start and end at a significant disadvantage.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

I will admit desire to r with my wife at times, but it's always on the basis that I wish this had never happened, and that I dream at night that this never happened and I have this great dream life. But what she did was truly not something i can get over. So while I desire it, I also know I can not do it. Not unless I wanted to lose myself in the process. But who knows.


----------



## LongWalk

Only you can decide. 

You place high value on individuality. You may also see your ex as a great classic car that should be appreciated.

Someone stole that car for awhile. Now it is in your garage. You drive it from time to time and you like the feel, but you have it up on ebay. Sooner or later someone will take it.

By the way how are they doing after moving to br closer to you?

Is she making friends?

Are your kids adjusting?

Does her new home feel like yours?


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> You place high value on individuality. You may also see your ex as a great classic car that should be appreciated.
> 
> *She's a mint condition AMC Gremlin. All original but well-used condition.... but who would want her? *
> 
> Someone stole that car for awhile. Now it is in your garage. You drive it from time to time and you like the feel, but you have it up on ebay. Sooner or later someone will take it.
> 
> *Some guy who likes obscure classics that no-one else would want. *


----------



## hope4family

Emptyshelldad said:


> I will admit desire to r with my wife at times, but it's always on the basis that I wish this had never happened, and that I dream at night that this never happened and I have this great dream life. But what she did was truly not something i can get over. So while I desire it, I also know I can not do it. Not unless I wanted to lose myself in the process. But who knows.


Sounds to me like you need more time to yourself. You need to get to the point where you feel good enough by yourself that the pain no longer hurts you. 

The mind movies do eventually stop. The grief, does eventually fade, and when all of it is over, you can make a decision that requires you to ask yourself and say. "Would you tell a friend to give her another chance?" 

However, if she wants to be with you, and is patiently waiting and forsaking others. You my friend, are potentially ahead of the game. While some fight to be in the drivers seat of that car. You have a chance to be in your own car by your own choice.

The only problem, is that the fantasy side of love. Really doesn't exist. Only the truly passionate, and dedicated, find that way to make it always work. 

But to me, you sound like the consequences haven't completed running their course for you in your mind and emotional well being. Good luck.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

I'm not the type who would go after her just to avoid someone else getting her. I mean she is beautiful.....absolutely drop dead gorgeous, but for me I already get all the offers I care for from young beautiful women so I'm not too worried. I guess I still date my wife from time to time but we are not exclusive and she knows I see several other women as well. But she is worried she will lose me forever. And I tell her that is a distinct possibility. 

But I will always always love her deeply. My ex or not she is still as close to me as a family member. And I think that's why we still get along so well. 

It's just the in love aspect that we suffer with since there was so much hurt for me. But we don't know what the future holds.


----------



## LongWalk

It's completely reasonable that you are undecided. You divorced and are single. Your exWW has applied to get her old position back. She lost it because she violated the rule – no OM in her heart or between her legs. She accepted D terms that were economically disadvantageous because you said that if she went after you according to the formula in the law books, you would never consider R.

She accepted this offer. You moved away for work and she followed so that you could be with your children. You have had sex with her, giving additional hope to the R idea. Moreover, you are honest with her, explaining that you are dating other women. She says she will not date other men. 

Have you actually discussed it? Do you say I am going to date other women to which she replies I am going to remain true to you?

How long should this undecided state continue? Have you discussed a time limit?

Are you punishing her or is this just a matter of exploring your choice of a new mate? Does she ask you to wear condoms when you have sex with her? Does she make you promise to wear them with other women?

Could also be that you intend to have new girlfriends as it suits you while have some relationship with your wife on the side.

Regardless of how long the limbo situation continues, it will probably not continue indefinitely because it relies on two people agreeing to be in limbo. Usually someone will end it sooner or later.

Shell Dad, I think you have life which is both tough and good. You are making a decent living but it must be hard. Do you have to live in a trailer while on the job? When work ends you either want home and where is that now?

When you go traveling with other women, you'll be enjoying the dating part of couple life but it won't really tell you what living these new girlfriends will be like. You'll have to invest time in that, don't you think? What if they want marriage and kids?


----------



## LongWalk

How's life treating you Shell Dad?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> It's completely reasonable that you are undecided. You divorced and are single. Your exWW has applied to get her old position back. She lost it because she violated the rule – no OM in her heart or between her legs. She accepted D terms that were economically disadvantageous because you said that if she went after you according to the formula in the law books, you would never consider R.
> 
> She accepted this offer. You moved away for work and she followed so that you could be with your children. You have had sex with her, giving additional hope to the R idea. Moreover, you are honest with her, explaining that you are dating other women. She says she will not date other men.
> 
> Have you actually discussed it? Do you say I am going to date other women to which she replies I am going to remain true to you?
> 
> How long should this undecided state continue? Have you discussed a time limit?
> 
> Are you punishing her or is this just a matter of exploring your choice of a new mate? Does she ask you to wear condoms when you have sex with her? Does she make you promise to wear them with other women?
> 
> I don't know how long it should continue really. I'm just taking it a day at a time and trying to keep a level head with regards to all matters of life.
> She is always free at any time to do as she pleases and we talk daily several times in fact.
> 
> But I'm open and honest with her about what I think I would feel if she went with other men. I didn't end our old, she did. So there will be no real "heavy lifting" going on from my end. I mean any more than a regular relationship would once we are back there in that position. By choice.
> 
> She got to test the waters and sample the markets available products, and made a clear choice she in all ways wants me and only me for all that I am. It was made clear to her when she tried to be with this other guy, all the the things she took for granted. And she regrets it big time.
> 
> So it's not so much that she is keeping herself off the shelf for only my benefit, but rather she doesn't like her options when compared to me. (Blushing a little). So there has been no discussion of timeframe or anything like that because that really wouldn't apply. She has never even hinted or asked about it.
> I don't wear them with her, but I do with all others. And she didn't have to ask me to do that, I prefer my d!(k non burny non drippy.
> 
> Plus unlike when i was a boy, (met her at 17) I think out my life now and i am the master of my own destiny (within the bounds of being respectful to my lord). But I don't let my desires over run my knowledge that ID never participate in an abortion in any way, so for me avoiding conception is the only way to avoid unplanned miracles.
> 
> 
> Could also be that you intend to have new girlfriends as it suits you while have some relationship with your wife on the side?
> 
> 
> ID like to think this is not true and as I have significantly less to no real emotions after our love died. So it's not like I'm loving to tom catting around. Because I'm not. I've ended our relationship, and chose to be a free man, free to make my own choices and that includes whom I spend my time with and how I spend it.
> 
> But truthfully, I'm madly in love with two girls right now. I love them both. And I sleep with them as often as I can......I've even slept with both of them in the same bed many times. I've held them when they cried, I've replenished my soul by breathing in the smell of their hair. They will be all I ever need so I'm taking everything else very carefully. My daughters are now seven and twelve. And I continue my existence almost solely for them.
> 
> 
> Regardless of how long the limbo situation continues, it will probably not continue indefinitely because it relies on two people agreeing to be in limbo. Usually someone will end it sooner or later.
> 
> Shell Dad, I think you have life which is both tough and good. You are making a decent living but it must be hard. Do you have to live in a trailer while on the job? When work ends you either want home and where is that?
> 
> 
> I live in forty sq ft for three to five months at a time and it's bitterly cold here. So yeah, it's pretty miserable which is why they pay you. To endure the torture. But I maintain my serenity by using the brain god gave me. And making solutions out of challenges that present themselves.
> 
> 
> When you go traveling with other women, you'll be enjoying the dating part of couple life but it won't really tell you what living these new girlfriends will be like. You'll have to invest time in that, don't you think? What if they want marriage and kids?




If they want marriage, they will have to find someone else. I will never marry again. For the reasons i lined out above. Even my cohabitation will be very even where I will feel free to walk at any time, and they will feel that way as well. This also helps to keep both parties of a relationship on their best behavior. I believe marriage traps you by forcing you to decide whether or not to continue a relationship, not based on the merit of the relationship alone, but rather many factors including assets, finances and future resources. All of these factors to be decided upon by the government. So no.......no more marriage for me ever. 

Thank you for your replies long walk as they present to me many opportunities for me to consider my actions from a varying circle of perspectives.


----------



## LongWalk

I think you have thought things out. In a sense you are now in new phase of life. You ex accepts and I guess you are pretty good to her, so she is not complaining.

I have two daughters, too.


----------



## LongWalk

I noticed you posted on another thread. How are you doing?

It occurred to me that your situation might work just as well as marriage in providing happiness to you, your ex and daughters. As long as you are able to meet your ex's needs, i.e., she feels protected by you economically and emotionally within the relationship you have, she may be hungry for marriage but largely satisfied.

You have to spend enough of you off time with her and your daughters to make that relationhip click. In some sense you are permanently dating your ex. As long as she is happy to see you and visa versa, then you are better off than some folks who are married.

Of course, there is an inequality in your relationship. You get to have strange on the side, but if she did, your love for her would whither, you would consider that infidelity again. But if this is "unfair", it is the arrangement that she created by cheating to begin with. If it is unacceptable to her, then she has to say. If she is working on herself in IC, something that you wanted, then she may one day get the strength to feel differently.

I know you don't want to marry again and I think that you may have found the truth that many others don't want to face: marriage is not what we are taught it is. It breaks dämn easily.

If your wife becomes happier and more secure, she may one day change again, but she should have the courage to talk about it, whatever that might mean. When I say change, I don't mean she stops loving you or has an affair necessarily but grows so that you want to spend more time with her. The opposite could also happen. You might find yourselves drifting apart.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Longwalk,

Good t hear from you again. But I agree with a lot of what your saying. There is an inequality in that I get to roam and while she could as well, it would likely end our ability to play house. 

But that apparent inequality, in is in my opinion, made equal by the fact that I was faithful while we were together, and she chose to cheat. So I have that lopsiding. My balance sheet as it were. So for now, she realizes that her actions caused this and we are very open that this may always be this way. 

Though between you and I, I don't think it will continue this way forever. But I'm like a tiger once caged,albeit I agreed to enter the cage. But once I was in the cage I was abused and mistreated because it wasn't like I could go anywhere. I was in the cage. Now, there is no cage of any sort whatsoever. The only thing that keeps me around, is her being desirable enough and me being happy enough, to choose to stay. 

But also, vice versa. She has no cage either. I support her financially and take care of her and my babies either way. So she chooses to be with me purely for the sake of being with me. Not because she needs my resources, or because she needs something from me. 

It is truly the most pure relationship type to be in. But I can see how if you are not both way more committed to quality relationships (great communication, lots of maturity, lack of reactivity and anger etc) this would make this style of relationship hard. 

Many people I think need the cage so that they can't just run when things get hard. But for me, I don't run anyhow, so this style is what i prefer. 

I mean think of DDay. Many people ,ws, report that now, just now.....their bs starts to really try hard for them. 

And many bs report that when they are ready to leave, the ws really tries hard for them. Things start getting done in a manner that hasn't been seen since the days of early courtship. 

So i conclude that people always keep their relationships on top priority when it appears the other person is free to leave. With one foot out the door, the whole heart goes into the relationship. 

Thoughts everybody? 

On this or on the original topics?


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## LongWalk

I guess the question is does your ex love you now more than ever. And do you feel the same way?

Is this love worth more than love in a marriage?

Is going to last longer?

Is it going to weather periods of being less intense and then come back, as is might in a marriage or die without the structure?

I guess the two of you decide.

Has she managed to make friends in the new town?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Emptyshelldad said:


> Longwalk,
> 
> Good t hear from you again. But I agree with a lot of what your saying. There is an inequality in that I get to roam and while she could as well, it would likely end our ability to play house.
> 
> But that apparent inequality, in is in my opinion, made equal by the fact that I was faithful while we were together, and she chose to cheat. So I have that lopsiding. My balance sheet as it were. So for now, she realizes that her actions caused this and we are very open that this may always be this way.
> 
> Though between you and I, I don't think it will continue this way forever. But I'm like a tiger once caged,albeit I agreed to enter the cage. But once I was in the cage I was abused and mistreated because it wasn't like I could go anywhere. I was in the cage. Now, there is no cage of any sort whatsoever. The only thing that keeps me around, is her being desirable enough and me being happy enough, to choose to stay.
> 
> But also, vice versa. She has no cage either. I support her financially and take care of her and my babies either way. So she chooses to be with me purely for the sake of being with me. Not because she needs my resources, or because she needs something from me.
> 
> It is truly the most pure relationship type to be in. But I can see how if you are not both way more committed to quality relationships (great communication, lots of maturity, lack of reactivity and anger etc) this would make this style of relationship hard.
> 
> Many people I think need the cage so that they can't just run when things get hard. But for me, I don't run anyhow, so this style is what i prefer.
> 
> I mean think of DDay. Many people ,ws, report that now, just now.....their bs starts to really try hard for them.
> 
> And many bs report that when they are ready to leave, the ws really tries hard for them. Things start getting done in a manner that hasn't been seen since the days of early courtship.
> 
> So i conclude that people always keep their relationships on top priority when it appears the other person is free to leave. With one foot out the door, the whole heart goes into the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts everybody?
> 
> On this or on the original topics?



While I fully understand the way you feel and why you are doing what you are doing, my thoughts are that this state of affairs is not emotionally healthy longer term and will lead to pain further down the line. So IMHO you will need to commit to one woman sooner or later in order to find peace with yourself.


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## Graywolf2

Emptyshelldad said:


> Anyhow that's the "short" answer to how I began to find out. It is so much worse, I'll have to perhaps post it in my journal or something sometime but it will be long and detailed.


You are quite the man. Did you ever write your journal?


----------



## Emptyshelldad

I've been gone a while.... But things are going well for me. My ex still wants us to be together desperately so. But I have a new lady whom is knockout gorgeous and very much a perfect fit for me. We love the same things, have the same little quirks, and the sex is nothing short of the best I've ever had in my life.....her body is amazing..... And our connection is so intense that I can't believe where I was emotionally 6months ago vs today. 

So to those reading this...... If you're miserable staying, then just remember that you have earned the right to leave the minute they stepped out on you..... And trust me, if you dedicate yourself to being thought kind of man, then the dating world is ripe for a man like you and you will not suffer from lack of female company .

In fact.... When I met this girl now whom I adore..... I was seeing 6 different woman all of whom wanted commitments but I had a firm rule that I don't commit exclusively to just one woman for at least 6 months..... And they all were ok with that. 

Now I'm not saying that every woman I met was ok with it, but if they weren't ok with it.... I just told them about my reasoning and if they still had ego issues, then we parted ways,.... Much easier to do when you know that you have several other woman whom are wanting to go on dates with you on the nights you were dating this woman..... 

An attitude of abundance made all the difference instead of the usual attitude of scarcity that most of us men feel when we pursue a new woman. 

Wow I can't believe how quickly I can get going again on here..... 
I should stop there for now.


----------



## DayOne

Thanks for sharing ESD, just been reading through the story, and liking the analogies.

Perhaps it's a sign (for me) that my co-driver has still not got round to getting her license... 



LostViking said:


> If you are a classic Chevy, she must be an AMC Gremlin.



That must make mine a Pinto. Has a history of exploding into flames over the smallest accident!


----------



## LongWalk

Given how good the connection you have with the new GF, can you initiate sex with your ex at all?

How often do you go back to spend time with your daughters?

Does your ex sense your disconnection?

You might check out dadof2's thread. He is trying to decide whether to reconcile with his WW.


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## Ripper

Awesome update. Glad to see you doing well.

Hopefully your story will inspire others to at least try to move forward. It seems that very few betrayed spouses go back once they go out and meet others. A wayward spouse is certainly no "prize" especially when their price tag also now includes a hefty sum of grief and resentment.



Emptyshelldad said:


> In fact.... When I met this girl now whom I adore..... I was seeing 6 different woman all of whom wanted commitments but I had a firm rule that I don't commit exclusively to just one woman for at least 6 months.....


FYI
Our resident "easily offend, morally self-righteous feminist" will be along shortly to sort you out. Prepare yourself for being told you aren't a moral person and no longer respectable.


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## bandit.45

I endorse this thread.


----------



## NoChoice

Is it just me or does anyone else feel a certain "emptiness" to this story? ESD, I understand you hurt, believe me I do but I'm not sure what your doing now isn't going to be more painful in the end. You are relatively young and viral and sex means a great deal to you but youth is fleeting. There will come a time when companionship and shared life experiences may mean more than a roll in the hay. Marriage isn't about being caged and trapped and living in fear of divorce, it's about building a complex, interwoven tapestry of life that will carry you into old age. A time when sex and chicks won't have much meaning. All things in life have a price. The price of giving your heart away is that it can be crushed but I believe it's worth the price in the long run. My WW and I have been working on R for several years now and she has indeed been a different woman. I can't say it will ever be the same but it's getting better each day as my trust grows. In the process, we are building that tapestry I spoke about earlier. Your girls will grow up too and you may one day stare into the face of your grandchild, as I have done several times now. At that stage of life will you want someone by your side that has shared life to that moment with you and has the same feeling in their heart that you have in yours or someone who says "yeah, nice kid...can we go now"?

What your wife did was wrong on every level and in every way and there is no excuse for it. However, there is a reason she did it, stupidity. Lack of forethought, inability to project the consequences of her actions, whatever you want to call it, it was stupid and irresponsible. I have tried for years now to put another reason to it but I cannot. It was just stupid and in that instance, the best you can hope for is for her to see that and realize how stupid it was and to learn and grow from the experience. 

Based on what you've posted so far she seems truly remorseful for what she did even to the point of moving away to be with you. Even allowing you to bang other women and still be with her. I can't imagine what that is doing to her self respect or the pain she now feels but she deems it worth it to keep you around. I know I'll get blasted by some here for suggesting that she has any self respect after what she did to you and I get that but again, a stupid one time mistake doesn't make her a serial cheater. It makes her stupid but if she learned it also made her smarter. I don't know why people do stupid things, I wish I did. Maybe I could understand my situation better but the fact is they do.

You exchanged vows with this woman and she shattered hers to bits. What are you doing with yours now. I know the government has given you amnesty but what of ESD? Have you given yourself amnesty on the grounds that you were betrayed? If your wife had indeed gone to be with this OM and made no effort to R then D is the only way to move forward but it didn't happen that way and what you're doing to her now IMHO is what she did to you. The difference is she deserves it and you have good reason, right? If you say so.

Look, ultimately what you do is up to you but as one poster has said eventually you may find this "playing the field" to be shallow and hollow and you need more, or she will. All I am saying is don't do like her and only think about the right now but consider the road you're on and see if you like the destination in ten, twenty, thirty years time. Don't still be an empty shell at the end of the journey. You don't see any classic chevys at rental lots being driven by many different drivers. They all have owners that have had them for years and love to drive them. Your wife tried what she thought would be a joyride but it turned out to be a nightmare. Maybe she now has a deep appreciation for that old chevy. Just something to consider. I wish the very best in whatever you end up doing.

P.S. 1970's muscle car I hope to restore someday.


----------



## Ripper

What did I just read?


----------



## NoChoice

Ripper said:


> What did I just read?


I know, I know but his posts just sound like he's lashing out. I know he's been hurt, I was too but he does have two young daughters to consider. I don't think being a "playboy" is the right way to go about giving them the family life they need. And I know that she initiated this and it's all on her but if she is truly deeply repentant shouldn't saving the family at least be a consideration? I know what he feels I wanted to kick my W to the curb and then down into the storm drain but would that have been best or would that make two wrongs. Just something to consider is all. I support whatever he does as she was dead wrong, I'm just saying consider all possibilities.

Edit: The video didn't play until after I responded. So I take it you weren't crazy about my response. Sorry about your computer. Did you know your dumpster is parked in a fire lane?

Edit 2: Thank you for your response, I haven't laughed like that in quite a while:rofl:


----------



## bandit.45

NoChoice said:


> I know, I know but his posts just sound like he's lashing out. I know he's been hurt, I was too but he does have two young daughters to consider. I don't think being a "playboy" is the right way to go about giving them the family life they need. And I know that she initiated this and it's all on her but if she is truly deeply repentant shouldn't saving the family at least be a consideration? I know what he feels I wanted to kick my W to the curb and then down into the storm drain but would that have been best or would that make two wrongs. Just something to consider is all. I support whatever he does as she was dead wrong, I'm just saying consider all possibilities.
> 
> Edit: The video didn't play until after I responded. So I take it you weren't crazy about my response. Sorry about your computer. Did you know your dumpster is parked in a fire lane?
> 
> Edit 2: Thank you for your response, I haven't laughed like that in quite a while:rofl:


He's not lashing out. Not the way I see it. I see him being honest. 

His XWW tossed him in the trash like dried out pasta, gave herself to another man....then when ESD moved on, he began playing the field and dating women to restore his smashed self esteem and shattered sense of masculinity. 

Sorry, but the XWW is just another woman he dates now. That's her choice to stay in this arrangement. 

Should he turn her away when she comes to him for sex? Well, why should he? She's his ex, they have a sexual history, she seems to want it enough to overlook the fact that he's spreading the love....

I don't see a big problem with what he's doing. She can either accept the status quo and continue being his occasional FB, knowing they are no longer exclusive, or she can say to herself "Hey, I blew it. There is nothing here to save anymore. He has a right to this, but I don't have to settle for being part of his harem. I'm outta here..."


----------



## wmn1

NoChoice said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else feel a certain "emptiness" to this story? ESD, I understand you hurt, believe me I do but I'm not sure what your doing now isn't going to be more painful in the end. You are relatively young and viral and sex means a great deal to you but youth is fleeting. There will come a time when companionship and shared life experiences may mean more than a roll in the hay. Marriage isn't about being caged and trapped and living in fear of divorce, it's about building a complex, interwoven tapestry of life that will carry you into old age. A time when sex and chicks won't have much meaning. All things in life have a price. The price of giving your heart away is that it can be crushed but I believe it's worth the price in the long run. My WW and I have been working on R for several years now and she has indeed been a different woman. I can't say it will ever be the same but it's getting better each day as my trust grows. In the process, we are building that tapestry I spoke about earlier. Your girls will grow up too and you may one day stare into the face of your grandchild, as I have done several times now. At that stage of life will you want someone by your side that has shared life to that moment with you and has the same feeling in their heart that you have in yours or someone who says "yeah, nice kid...can we go now"?
> 
> What your wife did was wrong on every level and in every way and there is no excuse for it. However, there is a reason she did it, stupidity. Lack of forethought, inability to project the consequences of her actions, whatever you want to call it, it was stupid and irresponsible. I have tried for years now to put another reason to it but I cannot. It was just stupid and in that instance, the best you can hope for is for her to see that and realize how stupid it was and to learn and grow from the experience.
> 
> Based on what you've posted so far she seems truly remorseful for what she did even to the point of moving away to be with you. Even allowing you to bang other women and still be with her. I can't imagine what that is doing to her self respect or the pain she now feels but she deems it worth it to keep you around. I know I'll get blasted by some here for suggesting that she has any self respect after what she did to you and I get that but again, a stupid one time mistake doesn't make her a serial cheater. It makes her stupid but if she learned it also made her smarter. I don't know why people do stupid things, I wish I did. Maybe I could understand my situation better but the fact is they do.
> 
> You exchanged vows with this woman and she shattered hers to bits. What are you doing with yours now. I know the government has given you amnesty but what of ESD? Have you given yourself amnesty on the grounds that you were betrayed? If your wife had indeed gone to be with this OM and made no effort to R then D is the only way to move forward but it didn't happen that way and what you're doing to her now IMHO is what she did to you. The difference is she deserves it and you have good reason, right? If you say so.
> 
> Look, ultimately what you do is up to you but as one poster has said eventually you may find this "playing the field" to be shallow and hollow and you need more, or she will. All I am saying is don't do like her and only think about the right now but consider the road you're on and see if you like the destination in ten, twenty, thirty years time. Don't still be an empty shell at the end of the journey. You don't see any classic chevys at rental lots being driven by many different drivers. They all have owners that have had them for years and love to drive them. Your wife tried what she thought would be a joyride but it turned out to be a nightmare. Maybe she now has a deep appreciation for that old chevy. Just something to consider. I wish the very best in whatever you end up doing.
> 
> P.S. 1970's muscle car I hope to restore someday.


I agree. Sounds like an after the divorce RA to string her along. She was wrong and got her arse handed to her but stringing her out is pretty lame IMO. He likes the new woman, let the old one go. If he's not sure, then his RA has been punishment enough. So make up his mind is probably the right thing to do for all involved.


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## NoChoice

bandit.45 said:


> He's not lashing out. Not the way I see it. I see him being honest.
> 
> His XWW tossed him in the trash like dried out pasta, gave herself to another man....then when ESD moved on, he began playing the field and dating women to restore his smashed self esteem and shattered sense of masculinity.
> 
> Sorry, but the XWW is just another woman he dates now. That's her choice to stay in this arrangement.
> 
> Should he turn her away when she comes to him for sex? Well, why should he? She's his ex, they have a sexual history, she seems to want it enough to overlook the fact that he's spreading the love....
> 
> I don't see a big problem with what he's doing. She can either accept the status quo and continue being his occasional FB, knowing they are no longer exclusive, or she can say to herself "Hey, I blew it. There is nothing here to save anymore. He has a right to this, but I don't have to settle for being part of his harem. I'm outta here..."


Do you see him as being selfless and caring to the needs of his daughters? Would they be better served by a stable, secure family life or a "playboy" Dad and an emotionally crippled Mom who's hanging around to be one of his "ladies"? I agree with you that he's being honest, honestly selfish. Look, there may be additional issues of which we are not aware so what I say I say based on what's in these posts. If it is as the posts indicate then this woman is down and too emotionally destroyed to leave. Is it right for him to kick her repeatedly while she is in this state. Does she deserve that? How much is too much? 

Maybe he wanted to be a playboy all along and that's why her emotional needs weren't being met, I don't know but I do know that if he was truly interested in providing a stable home life for his daughters then that is where he would be focusing his energy and finances instead of dating 7 women at once. Not exactly the behavior of a family man and remember he is a father.


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## Thinkitthrough

Don't know what its like in the States but up here in the Great White North if you live together for two years you may as well be married as most divorce laws will apply.


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> He's not lashing out. Not the way I see it. I see him being honest.
> 
> His XWW tossed him in the trash like dried out pasta, gave herself to another man....then when ESD moved on, he began playing the field and dating women to restore his smashed self esteem and shattered sense of masculinity.
> 
> Sorry, but the XWW is just another woman he dates now. That's her choice to stay in this arrangement.
> 
> Should he turn her away when she comes to him for sex? Well, why should he? She's his ex, they have a sexual history, she seems to want it enough to overlook the fact that he's spreading the love....
> 
> I don't see a big problem with what he's doing. She can either accept the status quo and continue being his occasional FB, knowing they are no longer exclusive, or she can say to herself "Hey, I blew it. There is nothing here to save anymore. He has a right to this, but I don't have to settle for being part of his harem. I'm outta here..."


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## LongWalk

bandit.45 said:


> He's not lashing out. Not the way I see it. I see him being honest.
> 
> His XWW tossed him in the trash like dried out pasta, gave herself to another man....then when ESD moved on, he began playing the field and dating women to restore his smashed self esteem and shattered sense of masculinity.
> 
> Sorry, but the XWW is just another woman he dates now. That's her choice to stay in this arrangement.
> 
> Should he turn her away when she comes to him for sex? Well, why should he? She's his ex, they have a sexual history, she seems to want it enough to overlook the fact that he's spreading the love....
> 
> I don't see a big problem with what he's doing. She can either accept the status quo and continue being his occasional FB, knowing they are no longer exclusive, or she can say to herself "Hey, I blew it. There is nothing here to save anymore. He has a right to this, but I don't have to settle for being part of his harem. I'm outta here..."


Usually I agree with you, Bandit. However, I am not certain that the status quo is right because it is not resistant change.

A woman can usually sense that her husband is not into her. Perhaps ESD's wife if committed to chasing him. And being sexually exclusive is part of her strategy. However, she may eventually despair. Does he want her to reach that point?

Do you want someone to feel dead inside?

Is she a better person? Can he become closer to her?

If he is really in love with another woman, does he enjoy spending time with his ex? Does he even want to have sex with her? Show affection? Does she seem pathetic? Even stupid?

ESD is a very thoughtful guy and he has values. He will think about these things on his own.


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## NoChoice

LongWalk said:


> Usually I agree with you, Bandit. However, I am not certain that the status quo is right because it is not resistant change.
> 
> A woman can usually sense that her husband is not into her. Perhaps ESD's wife if committed to chasing him. And being sexually exclusive is part of her strategy. However, she may eventually despair. Does he want her to reach that point?
> 
> Do you want someone to feel dead inside?
> 
> Is she a better person? Can he become closer to her?
> 
> *If he is really in love with another woman, does he enjoy spending time with his ex? Does he even want to have sex with her? Show affection? Does she seem pathetic? Even stupid?*
> 
> ESD is a very thoughtful guy and he has values. He will think about these things on his own.


:iagree:Where does he see his daughters in this scenario and what lesson are they learning from this?


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## drifting on

NoChoice said:


> :iagree:Where does he see his daughters in this scenario and what lesson are they learning from this?


I see his daughters as learning that you took vows in a ceremony in front of God and family. When you break these vows there are severe consequences. His now ex wife torched her marriage and again sees him as the prize. She only wants him. But his daughters are realizing what happens when you betray someone in horrible way. As intelligent as emptyshelldad comes across in his posts it doesn't sound like he is exposing his daughters to his dating. ESD has values, pride, and wisdom to not rush into anything that could prove harmful to his daughters. 

ESD was devastated by his ex wife's actions as I was, I also feel dead on the inside. Much of what he has posted I have felt myself, and it's horrible. Yesterday we celebrated my twin boys birthday by having a party and over fifty people to our home. The only person I wanted to initiate a conversation with (other than the boys of course) was my sister. I used to look forward to being with family, making people laugh, having fun with both family's. Now I can't wait until they all leave. 

That's a direct affect from WW's affair on me! I feel shame from her affair even though it's owned solely by her. I feel the humiliation! People recover at their own pace, events of the affair affect each person differently. Some people fear the emotional connection while others fear the physical connection. In my case both were equally damaging and devastating. 

ESD may not be handling this like you would, but he should live his life the way he sees fit. He will recover from infidelity the way he needs to, the way he wants to. Maybe the question should have been what are his daughters learning from their mothers actions? Maybe his daughters are learning strength by ESD's actions. Maybe ESD is teaching his daughters what values are, what commitment means in a marriage. At the end of the day if ESD is happy then that's all that matters.


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## bandit.45

I was under the impression that ESD is not currently living with his wife and daughters, but is still supporting her and them. If he is not living with her, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If he is living with them he just needs to be careful and discreet not to bring other women around, which is what I imagine he does anyway. I can't imagine he would be that dumb as to expose his girls to his FBs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice

I had thought he was staying with his WW since she moved to be near him, perhaps I misread, In any event though I just believe that when someone brings children into the world that they owe them something and even if he is smart enough not to expose his daughters,is he careful enough? Is his wife smart enough? How does she answer when they ask where is Daddy tonight? Or, if he isn't staying with them, where is Daddy? Why did Daddy come over last night and then leave? I know what she did was a nuclear bomb in his world and it will have fallout on his daughters without him turning into Hugh Hefner. That's all I'm saying.


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## Emptyshelldad

There seems to be a great deal of assumptions being made about how I am with my children... And while I understand the need to satisfy ones subconscious narcissism in affirming that your choice to stay with WW is in due service to your children.... It hardly means that I, nor others, will see it as such. 

I don't stay over like that.... We don't live in the same household.... She will go out with me on dates and if we have sex (who we kidding..... Our sex is great so we are definitely having sex). Then the sex happens at my place. 

It may be hard for some to understand that yes, there may be some women out there who are happy to have a man like me in their lives even if it means that they don't get exclusive access to my time. If you are finding it difficult to see how a woman could be healthy and well adjusted but still desire to be a part of my life, then...... Well..... Perhaps try being a better man.... (Just me making the same level of wild unsupported assumptions about you, as you are making about me).


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## tom67

Emptyshelldad said:


> There seems to be a great deal of assumptions being made about how I am with my children... And while I understand the need to satisfy ones subconscious narcissism in affirming that your choice to stay with WW is in due service to your children.... It hardly means that I, nor others, will see it as such.
> 
> I don't stay over like that.... We don't live in the same household.... She will go out with me on dates and if we have sex (who we kidding..... Our sex is great so we are definitely having sex). Then the sex happens at my place.
> 
> It may be hard for some to understand that yes, there may be some women out there who are happy to have a man like me in their lives even if it means that they don't get exclusive access to my time. If you are finding it difficult to see how a woman could be healthy and well adjusted but still desire to be a part of my life, then...... Well..... Perhaps try being a better man.... (Just me making the same level of wild unsupported assumptions about you, as you are making about me).


Okay I didn't judge as the both of you are on the same page.
Why not.


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## NoChoice

I have made no assumptions as to how you are with your children at all. Your parenting abilities have never come into question with the exception of what you have described as your new lifestyle and how it affects the family. You are very happy in your new life and your mind is set so I will wish you and your family every happiness. I will work on being a better man so that multiple women will want to have me in their lives, since a little piece of me will be better than a full time someone else.


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## convert

NoChoice said:


> *I have made no assumptions as to how you are with your children at all*. Your parenting abilities have never come into question with the exception of what you have described as your new lifestyle and how it affects the family. You are very happy in your new life and your mind is set so I will wish you and your family every happiness. I will work on being a better man so that multiple women will want to have me in their lives, since a little piece of me will be better than a full time someone else.


yes you have. right in you on post, just because you put them in the form of questions does not mean you are not insinuating his parenting abilities


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## bandit.45

ESD, does the arrangement go both ways? Is your ex allowed to date and sleep with other men?


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## LongWalk

I think he covered this before. She is allowed to date but ESD will not date her anymore if she does. 

Does ESD share his work schedule with his ex?

The risks are that ESD's ex will move on. Does he want that? It will only be clear to him if and when it happens.

Right now he gets to see his daughters whenever. That will end if she remarries.


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## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> I think he covered this before. She is allowed to date but ESD will not date her anymore if she does.
> 
> Does ESD share his work schedule with his ex?
> 
> The risks are that ESD's ex will move on. Does he want that? It will only be clear to him if and when it happens.
> 
> Right now he gets to see his daughters whenever. That will end if she remarries.


Hmm. Interesting.


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## Ripper

Emptyshelldad said:


> And while I understand the need to satisfy ones subconscious narcissism in affirming that your choice to stay with WW is in due service to your children.... It hardly means that I, nor others, will see it as such.


Bazinga! 



Emptyshelldad said:


> some women out there who are happy to have a man like me in their lives even if it means that they don't get exclusive access to my time. If you are finding it difficult to see how a woman could be healthy and well adjusted but still desire to be a part of my life, then...... Well..... Perhaps try being a better man.... (Just me making the same level of wild unsupported assumptions about you, as you are making about me).


The Redpill sayeth;
"Thy lady rather share thee "alpha" then be exclusive to thou "beta".


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## NoChoice

drifting on said:


> I see his daughters as learning that you took vows in a ceremony in front of God and family.


And if one person breaks those vows then the other party is under no obligation to adhere to his. Do the vows say WE promise to... or do they say I promise to...



> When you break these vows there are severe consequences.


Up to and including what? Death?



> His now ex wife torched her marriage and again sees him as the prize. She only wants him.


Why do you suppose that is? Why does ESD believe that is?



> But his daughters are realizing what happens when you betray someone in horrible way. As intelligent as emptyshelldad comes across in his posts it doesn't sound like he is exposing his daughters to his dating. ESD has values, pride, and wisdom to not rush into anything that could prove harmful to his daughters.


So you believe his daughters, in time, will not hear from their mother what a terrible mistake she made and how it forced their Dad to become a womanizer. They will understand that their Dad was an Alpha male. Maybe they can be so lucky as to find an Alpha male of similar values, pride and wisdom to share with 6 other women when they are old enough, as their mother did.



> ESD was devastated by his ex wife's actions as I was, I also feel dead on the inside. Much of what he has posted I have felt myself, and it's horrible. Yesterday we celebrated my twin boys birthday by having a party and over fifty people to our home. The only person I wanted to initiate a conversation with (other than the boys of course) was my sister. I used to look forward to being with family, making people laugh, having fun with both family's. Now I can't wait until they all leave.
> 
> That's a direct affect from WW's affair on me! I feel shame from her affair even though it's owned solely by her. I feel the humiliation! People recover at their own pace, events of the affair affect each person differently. Some people fear the emotional connection while others fear the physical connection. In my case both were equally damaging and devastating.


AGREED AGREED AGREED AGREED. I cannot agree more nor can I feel any more empathy for you and he. I know the pain and emptiness.



> ESD may not be handling this like you would, but he should live his life the way he sees fit. He will recover from infidelity the way he needs to, the way he wants to. Maybe the question should have been what are his daughters learning from their mothers actions? Maybe his daughters are learning strength by ESD's actions. Maybe ESD is teaching his daughters what values are, what commitment means in a marriage. At the end of the day if ESD is happy then that's all that matters.


HE's not handling it like I did. I don't want HIM to. HE will recover, in time, I am just concerned that HE will do more harm on HIS current path because it's not HE, it's THEY. This kind of nightmare affects the whole family. I ask this in all sincerity with absolutely no malice intended whatsoever. Will his daughters see their mom as a tramp or as someone who made a mistake and tried to fix it? How would ESD want them to see her? Will they see their Dad as a man who fought to the end for his family or as a womanizer? How would ESD want them to see him? As to values, would you teach these values to your twin son's? And if this is what commitment means in marriage then God help us all. Finally, if the last line of your post is how you and ESD truly feel then you are absolutely right, nothing I've said here matters in the least, simply ignore it in its entirety.

I sincerely do not want to hurt ESD but I am concerned that ESD is hurting himself. And believe it or not I wish only the best for you, ESD and all the posters here that have had their world devastated by this uncaring, soulless beast of infidelity.


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## LongWalk

From an evolutionary point of view ESD is doing just fine. He is blocking other males from putting seed into the womb of the mate who is responsible for his offspring. At the same time he is still spreading his seed. Never mind that he is not having more children, he is gaining access to reproductive potential.

This is a good strategy. Moreover, he consciously chooses not to marry again. Marriage is not for him.

Does he want his daughters to believe this is the way men and women should live? We don't know from what he writes, other than that he loves them.


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## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> From an evolutionary point of view ESD is doing just fine. He is blocking other males from putting seed into the womb of the mate who is responsible for his offspring. At the same time he is still spreading his seed. Never mind that he is not having more children, he is gaining access to reproductive potential.
> 
> This is a good strategy. Moreover, he consciously chooses not to marry again. Marriage is not for him.
> 
> Does he want his daughters to believe this is the way men and women should live? We don't know from what he writes, other than that he loves them.


Prepare for an ass kicking over this post.


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## wmn1

Emptyshelldad said:


> There seems to be a great deal of assumptions being made about how I am with my children... And while I understand the need to satisfy ones subconscious narcissism in affirming that your choice to stay with WW is in due service to your children.... It hardly means that I, nor others, will see it as such.
> 
> I don't stay over like that.... We don't live in the same household.... She will go out with me on dates and if we have sex (who we kidding..... Our sex is great so we are definitely having sex). Then the sex happens at my place.
> 
> It may be hard for some to understand that yes, there may be some women out there who are happy to have a man like me in their lives even if it means that they don't get exclusive access to my time. If you are finding it difficult to see how a woman could be healthy and well adjusted but still desire to be a part of my life, then...... Well..... Perhaps try being a better man.... (Just me making the same level of wild unsupported assumptions about you, as you are making about me).


I don't think anyone is making assumptions about you. While your initial post made a lot of sense and most here liked it, you didn't give us the whole picture to understand the real facts outside of that. Sure, maybe you didn't want to reveal them but Nochoice had a lot of good points to make. I don't think you are going to get a lot of people to defend your former or current or whatever she is to you now and certainly not me. However, there are people here who feel you either are retaliating or stringing along or what have you. I really don't care so much and I am not one who suggests staying with a WW and never have. I personally wouldn't. I am a finite type of person. I need stability. If you're happy, fine. If she says 'enough of this', then fine. I really get the feeling you don't care either way and so be it. However, if this is your way or R, to me it's weak. If it's your way to get even, it's weaker. If it's your way to have fun, so be it but if I was her, (and I would never have put myself in the position she has), I would move on. 

Like the old saying, it is what it is. However, don't come onto an advice line and start trashing people for their opinions if you really don't care to hear them. I think you are here for self affirmation personally.


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## wmn1

wmn1 said:


> I don't think anyone is making assumptions about you. While your initial post made a lot of sense and most here liked it, you didn't give us the whole picture to understand the real facts outside of that. Sure, maybe you didn't want to reveal them but Nochoice had a lot of good points to make. I don't think you are going to get a lot of people to defend your former or current or whatever she is to you now and certainly not me. However, there are people here who feel you either are retaliating or stringing along or what have you. I really don't care so much and I am not one who suggests staying with a WW and never have. I personally wouldn't. I am a finite type of person. I need stability. If you're happy, fine. If she says 'enough of this', then fine. I really get the feeling you don't care either way and so be it. However, if this is your way or R, to me it's weak. If it's your way to get even, it's weaker. If it's your way to have fun, so be it but if I was her, (and I would never have put myself in the position she has), I would move on.
> 
> Like the old saying, it is what it is. However, don't come onto an advice line and start trashing people for their opinions if you really don't care to hear them. I think you are here for self affirmation personally.


and yes ESD, it's her fault that it has evolved to this. I agree with that


----------



## drifting on

Nochoice
And if one person breaks those vows then the other party is under no obligation to adhere to his. Do the vows say WE promise to... or do they say I promise to...

You are correct, and they are divorced. One person broke the vows and cheated, ESD being under no obligation divorced. As for the vows, when I say God and family, the vows are in front of God and family. I'll let you speculate as to I or we.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on

Nochoice

Up to and including what? Death?

Up to divorce. Clearly ESD's ex is horrified that they have divorced. She faces a very uncertain future most likely. She lost what she discovered she loved the most, ESD. Death? From every post in this thread did anyone mention anything about her death or dying? Some people do commit suicide over infidelity, so anything is possible. Hell, I was at my kitchen table with Prestone antifreeze in a glass three days before valentines day. I live my life according to God and suicide is, shall we say, frowned upon. My beliefs in God are why I am here today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on

Nochoice

So you believe his daughters, in time, will not hear from their mother what a terrible mistake she made and how it forced their Dad to become a womanizer. They will understand that their Dad was an Alpha male. Maybe they can be so lucky as to find an Alpha male of similar values, pride and wisdom to share with 6 other women when they are old enough, as their mother did.

To be honest I don't know ESD or his wife so to answer whether or not she tells her daughters is unclear to BOTH of us. As for a terrible mistake, a mistake is adding or subtracting wrong in your checkbook. Having sex while married to anyone other than your spouse is a bad choice. Dammit I hate that word mistake! As gently as I can say this to you ESD's ex wife knew what she was doing, did it regardless of the consequences and now seems sorry. How can call that a mistake???

ESD being a womanizer, ok, but he is not in an exclusive or committed relationship. From what ESD has said he is dating six women. Does not do it in front of his daughters. He is not exposing them to his "womanizer" ways as you put it. Do you know what these six females are looking for in a relationship? Maybe it's what they want! 

As for the alpha male, ok. He is an alpha male. Agreed.

Values, pride, and wisdom. Read his posts and you will see he has pride. His ex wife cheated and they divorced. A way to preserve his pride. Wisdom, he has kept everything from his kids. He is protecting them as any father would. He hasn't even told his daughters what a horrible "mistake" their mother has made.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on

Nochoice


AGREED AGREED AGREED AGREED. I cannot agree more nor can I feel any more empathy for you and he. I know the pain and emptiness.


Thank you for the kind words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

drifting on said:


> Nochoice
> 
> So you believe his daughters, in time, will not hear from their mother what a terrible mistake she made and how it forced their Dad to become a womanizer. They will understand that their Dad was an Alpha male. Maybe they can be so lucky as to find an Alpha male of similar values, pride and wisdom to share with 6 other women when they are old enough, as their mother did.
> 
> To be honest I don't know ESD or his wife so to answer whether or not she tells her daughters is unclear to BOTH of us. As for a terrible mistake, a mistake is adding or subtracting wrong in your checkbook. Having sex while married to anyone other than your spouse is a bad choice. Dammit I hate that word mistake! As gently as I can say this to you ESD's ex wife knew what she was doing, did it regardless of the consequences and now seems sorry. How can call that a mistake???
> 
> ESD being a womanizer, ok, but he is not in an exclusive or committed relationship. From what ESD has said he is dating six women. Does not do it in front of his daughters. He is not exposing them to his "womanizer" ways as you put it. Do you know what these six females are looking for in a relationship? Maybe it's what they want!
> 
> As for the alpha male, ok. He is an alpha male. Agreed.
> 
> Values, pride, and wisdom. Read his posts and you will see he has pride. His ex wife cheated and they divorced. A way to preserve his pride. Wisdom, he has kept everything from his kids. He is protecting them as any father would. He hasn't even told his daughters what a horrible "mistake" their mother has made.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This has to be oe of the worst statements I have seen on this board since joining, that his daughters would be lucky to share a guy with 6 other women ? WTF ???? Sounds like you need a moral compass somewhere 

Regarding his moving from his cheating wife, I understand and agree. However, Nochoice is right. His ex knows he's dating around, the daughters will eventually know and then what ? They will know about her infidelities as well. But you miss the point that is being made. Is he retaliating and is it going to affect the family in 15 years when Mom turns to the girls and says "I screwed up, tried to make amends, Dad led me on and then F'ed me over " ? Probably not. I also think he's retaliating by saying that he can F around all he wants and she can't touch anyone without his leaving. In other words, I "am king". I know she's the loser, I get it. But this is a case of revenge plain and simple. Just dump her or work on R. It's that simple.

Lord knows, maybe she's using him as a sex toy and screwing 5 guys behind his back and he doesn't know. So maybe they are both in loserville. She's worse. She F'ed up a good thing. He's trying to catch up.

But Nochoice has a good point which you, drifting on haven't refuted


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## wmn1

drifting on said:


> Nochoice
> And if one person breaks those vows then the other party is under no obligation to adhere to his. Do the vows say WE promise to... or do they say I promise to...
> 
> You are correct, and they are divorced. One person broke the vows and cheated, ESD being under no obligation divorced. As for the vows, when I say God and family, the vows are in front of God and family. I'll let you speculate as to I or we.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


strongly disagree. The other party can and should have the higher ground to D but saying the other party doesn't have to adhere to their vows is justifying RA's which many here disagree with and cause more damage. Don't get me wrong. If my wife cheated, I would be tempted to RA. But vows are vows and you are advocating swooping to the same level rather than just discharging the person. I disagree.

He is under no obligation divorced but no serious woman is going to look at him seriously after having to compete so heavily for him. They will remember how he played and he will again be played. 

You make it sound as though women are dolphins feeding at Seaworld


----------



## drifting on

Nochoice

HE's not handling it like I did. I don't want HIM to. HE will recover, in time, I am just concerned that HE will do more harm on HIS current path because it's not HE, it's THEY. This kind of nightmare affects the whole family. I ask this in all sincerity with absolutely no malice intended whatsoever. Will his daughters see their mom as a tramp or as someone who made a mistake and tried to fix it? How would ESD want them to see her? Will they see their Dad as a man who fought to the end for his family or as a womanizer? How would ESD want them to see him? As to values, would you teach these values to your twin son's? And if this is what commitment means in marriage then God help us all. Finally, if the last line of your post is how you and ESD truly feel then you are absolutely right, nothing I've said here matters in the least, simply ignore it in its entirety.

I sincerely do not want to hurt ESD but I am concerned that ESD is hurting himself. And believe it or not I wish only the best for you, ESD and all the posters here that have had their world devastated by this uncaring, soulless beast of infidelity.


I agree with part of what you have written. That said he is not married anymore. I and you don't know what kind of relationship these six women want. I can tell you I would not date a woman with five other boyfriends. But because I don't agree is irrelevant, ESD will live his life as he desires. I have no idea how his daughters will view their mother. I will only tell you again it was not a mistake. As I told my WW you had every opportunity NOT to cheat but made the DECISION to cheat. This was a very difficult aspect of her affair to accept for me personally. As for how he wants his daughters to see their mom, again he hasn't told them she nuked the family and killed their dad on the inside. That speaks volumes of how he feels for his daughters.

ESD's daughters will see him as strong, and not staying in a marriage where he just couldn't stay. He most likely will be a better dad for not staying. He is teaching his daughters about consequences. Let's face it, we don't know much about ESD, what values he teaches or even if they go to church. I will teach my son's what commitment means for marriage and everything else. I will raise my son's to be fine young men. That is my mission in life, that will be my defining moment. As for my last sentence, I believe each person should live their life to their own accord. I see life cut short, people waste their life with drugs, I have dealt with convicted murderers, bank robbers, rapists, child molesters and on and on. To each his own. I can't stop the next murder any more than you. I can't stop the next child abuse call I go on any more than you. I live my life my way, I don't project my beliefs on anyone. When I meet my maker I will say I lived my life fully. That's all I can do. Lately it hasn't been all that great but I have hope I will return to what I was. Maybe not fully but enough to say I have peace and happiness.

I appreciate you wish no ill will towards ESD or myself, and I say sincerely I wish peace and happiness to you. Infidelity is horrible for all involved and each poster will handle it in their own way. While we all have an opinion I spoke up about ESD as I felt many similarities. That doesn't mean I agree with divorce, reconciliation, who or how many you date. It means I had an opinion about what you posted. 

We may agree or disagree about each other's posts, it doesn't mean we are right or wrong. Good luck to you.


----------



## drifting on

wmn1 said:


> strongly disagree. The other party can and should have the higher ground to D but saying the other party doesn't have to adhere to their vows is justifying RA's which many here disagree with and cause more damage. Don't get me wrong. If my wife cheated, I would be tempted to RA. But vows are vows and you are advocating swooping to the same level rather than just discharging the person. I disagree.
> 
> He is under no obligation divorced but no serious woman is going to look at him seriously after having to compete so heavily for him. They will remember how he played and he will again be played.
> 
> You make it sound as though women are dolphins feeding at Seaworld


Wmn1

Let me say I don't believe in revenge affairs. If you think that's what I was stating I'm not. Having a revenge affair is like pouring gas on a fire to put it out. My vows are sacred to me should have been for my WW but they weren't. I wouldn't date more than one person at a time but that's me. However neither you nor I know how serious he is with any of the six women. If the ex wife wants to remain in that position that's her choice just like cheating was. Or was that a mistake? Do you know if she was sorry for being caught or if she is truly remorseful. If she wasn't caught would it still be happening today?


----------



## tom67

drifting on said:


> Wmn1
> 
> Let me say I don't believe in revenge affairs. If you think that's what I was stating I'm not. Having a revenge affair is like pouring gas on a fire to put it out. My vows are sacred to me should have been for my WW but they weren't. I wouldn't date more than one person at a time but that's me. However neither you nor I know how serious he is with any of the six women. If the ex wife wants to remain in that position that's her choice just like cheating was. Or was that a mistake? Do you know if she was sorry for being caught or if she is truly remorseful. If she wasn't caught would it still be happening today?


Good points.:iagree::iagree:


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## HobbesTheTiger

Have your kids been to see a therapist/family counsellor? I'd strongly recommend it!


----------



## NoChoice

wmn1 said:


> This has to be oe of the worst statements I have seen on this board since joining, that his daughters would be lucky to share a guy with 6 other women ? WTF ???? Sounds like you need a moral compass somewhere


Sorry, perhaps I should not have used such extreme sarcasm. I was trying to highlight the fact that the OP, from his posts, appears to consider those women he is seeing and his EWW, to be "lucky" to have him in their lives. An Alpha male with values, pride and wisdom and I was trying to point out the absurdity. I apologize for my ambiguity.


----------



## wmn1

NoChoice said:


> Sorry, perhaps I should not have used such extreme sarcasm. I was trying to highlight the fact that the OP, from his posts, appears to consider those women he is seeing and his EWW, to be "lucky" to have him in their lives. An Alpha male with values, pride and wisdom and I was trying to point out the absurdity. I apologize for my ambiguity.



No I agree with you. The response you paraphrased me on here was actually a post made by Drifting On, Not you if you go back and look.

You and I have been on the same page on this one


----------



## wmn1

drifting on said:


> Wmn1
> 
> Let me say I don't believe in revenge affairs. If you think that's what I was stating I'm not. Having a revenge affair is like pouring gas on a fire to put it out. My vows are sacred to me should have been for my WW but they weren't. I wouldn't date more than one person at a time but that's me. However neither you nor I know how serious he is with any of the six women. If the ex wife wants to remain in that position that's her choice just like cheating was. Or was that a mistake? Do you know if she was sorry for being caught or if she is truly remorseful. If she wasn't caught would it still be happening today?


No problem. I often agree with you and never believed that you believe in RAs. Your values seem to mirror mine or vice versa and I recognize you as a victim in everything because I remember your story clearly and noone should have to endure what you did. That's the problem in ESD's case, great metaphor but not many details and who only knows about his ex. I garee with you there


----------



## bandit.45

This isn't a revenge affair he is having with this new girlfriend. He is not married and can date whomever he wants. He is doing it out of his kids' line of sight. This girl is into him. 

As for him and his ex, they are two divorced people who get together once in a while to fvck. She enjoys spending time with him on occasion, and she and the kids are being supported by him. 

The ex has it made in the shade as far as I'm concerned. She gets to remain friends with the ex-husband she screwed over, gets to have sex with him when she wants, gets his support and gets him to pay for the house she's living in. She doesn't have to cook or clean for him anymore, doesn't have to worry about taking care of him...all she has to worry about is getting her girls to school and taking care of their needs. Together they seem to be co-parenting their girls well.

I'm trying really hard to see who is being used or taken advantage of here.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> This isn't a revenge affair he is having with this new girlfriend. He is not married and can date whomever he wants. He is doing it out of his kids' line of sight. This girl is into him.
> 
> As for him and his ex, they are two divorced people who get together once in a while to fvck. She enjoys spending time with him on occasion, and she and the kids are being supported by him.
> 
> The ex has it made in the shade as far as I'm concerned. She gets to remain friends with the ex-husband she screwed over, gets to have sex with him when she wants, gets his support and gets him to pay for the house she's living in. She doesn't have to cook or clean for him anymore, doesn't have to worry about taking care of him...all she has to worry about is getting her girls to school and taking care of their needs. Together they seem to be co-parenting their girls well.
> 
> I'm trying really hard to see who is being used or taken advantage of here.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

That is a subjective description of their lives, Bandit.

My understanding is that ESD works shifts in a tough industry. When he leaves the shifts he goes home and home is the house where his ex wife lives with his daughters. He is in no sense an occasional guest. He has his clothes and other possessions there. He sleeps with ex in the same home. I presume they do not go to a hotel, but he will clarify.

Ex knows he has other women because she roughly knows his schedule. She has attempted to rein him in but he told her that if she does not like it, he will end their LTR. Her choice. If she sees other men, he will also cancel the LTR.

This may be a good situation. Maybe she will chase him till the cows come home. But if ESD loves another woman much more than his ex, it is hard to believe he goes home as often. Does he have another house or apartment somewhere?

Does he spend some of his rest time in OW's home? Does his ex know his location?

ESD is a good guy. He has even forgiven his Ex but he has not forgotten. I'll bet that his Ex will eventually reject the current arrangement. It may take some time. If she accepts indefinitely, does that mean once the girls are well into high school ESD is going to dump his Ex. Once they go to college is he still going to stay with his Ex?


----------



## staystrong

ThePheonix said:


> Despite this being and old thread, here's the way I look at it:
> 
> One day your chevy sedan is stolen out of the driveway. Youre obviously upset but begin to accept the fact she's gone, To feel better and get your life back on track you decided to indulge yourself a bit and rent a new Corvette. She's beautiful, lean and every mans dream. She's built, fun to drive and the fastest thing in a five mile radius. Everywhere you go she's a real head turner.
> After several week of renting her, you are proposed a real deal to buy her and you decide she's for me, I'm going to make her mine.
> Just as you're going out the door to seal the deal, the cops show with your old sedan. Turns out the thief got tired of her, and abandoned her. Tell me what a great day its become.


Doesn't happen often enough. Nor so romantically.

And you'll never know where that sedan's really been. There are probably still some condoms in the glovebox, and your heart has still has the tire treads on it.


----------



## ThePheonix

Emptyshelldad said:


> this is what i call "old chevy" syndrome. your spouse sees a new car on the lot, and says "ooohhh, that looks so nice".


Despite this being and old thread, here's the way I look at it:

One day your 12 year old chevy sedan is stolen out of the driveway. Youre obviously upset but begin to accept the fact she's gone, To feel better and get your life back on track you decided to indulge yourself a bit and rent a new Corvette. She's beautiful, lean and every mans dream. She's built, fun to drive and the fastest thing in a five mile radius. Everywhere you go she's a real head turner. You melt into those leather seats and her responsiveness is amazing.
After several weeks of renting her, you are proposed a real deal to buy her and you decide she's for me, I'm going to make her mine your say.
Just as you're going out the door to seal the deal, the cops show with your old sedan. Turns out the thief got tired of her, and abandoned her. Tell me what a great feelings come over you and how elated you are.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

NoChoice said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else feel a certain "emptiness" to this story? ESD, I understand you hurt, believe me I do but I'm not sure what your doing now isn't going to be more painful in the end. You are relatively young and viral and sex means a great deal to you but youth is fleeting. There will come a time when companionship and shared life experiences may mean more than a roll in the hay. Marriage isn't about being caged and trapped and living in fear of divorce, it's about building a complex, interwoven tapestry of life that will carry you into old age. A time when sex and chicks won't have much meaning. All things in life have a price. The price of giving your heart away is that it can be crushed but I believe it's worth the price in the long run. My WW and I have been working on R for several years now and she has indeed been a different woman. I can't say it will ever be the same but it's getting better each day as my trust grows. In the process, we are building that tapestry I spoke about earlier. Your girls will grow up too and you may one day stare into the face of your grandchild, as I have done several times now. At that stage of life will you want someone by your side that has shared life to that moment with you and has the same feeling in their heart that you have in yours or someone who says "yeah, nice kid...can we go now"?
> 
> What your wife did was wrong on every level and in every way and there is no excuse for it. However, there is a reason she did it, stupidity. Lack of forethought, inability to project the consequences of her actions, whatever you want to call it, it was stupid and irresponsible. I have tried for years now to put another reason to it but I cannot. It was just stupid and in that instance, the best you can hope for is for her to see that and realize how stupid it was and to learn and grow from the experience.
> 
> Based on what you've posted so far she seems truly remorseful for what she did even to the point of moving away to be with you. Even allowing you to bang other women and still be with her. I can't imagine what that is doing to her self respect or the pain she now feels but she deems it worth it to keep you around. I know I'll get blasted by some here for suggesting that she has any self respect after what she did to you and I get that but again, a stupid one time mistake doesn't make her a serial cheater. It makes her stupid but if she learned it also made her smarter. I don't know why people do stupid things, I wish I did. Maybe I could understand my situation better but the fact is they do.
> 
> You exchanged vows with this woman and she shattered hers to bits. What are you doing with yours now. I know the government has given you amnesty but what of ESD? Have you given yourself amnesty on the grounds that you were betrayed? If your wife had indeed gone to be with this OM and made no effort to R then D is the only way to move forward but it didn't happen that way and what you're doing to her now IMHO is what she did to you. The difference is she deserves it and you have good reason, right? If you say so.
> 
> Look, ultimately what you do is up to you but as one poster has said eventually you may find this "playing the field" to be shallow and hollow and you need more, or she will. All I am saying is don't do like her and only think about the right now but consider the road you're on and see if you like the destination in ten, twenty, thirty years time. Don't still be an empty shell at the end of the journey. You don't see any classic chevys at rental lots being driven by many different drivers. They all have owners that have had them for years and love to drive them. Your wife tried what she thought would be a joyride but it turned out to be a nightmare. Maybe she now has a deep appreciation for that old chevy. Just something to consider. I wish the very best in whatever you end up doing.
> 
> P.S. 1970's muscle car I hope to restore someday.


I remember his story. IMO when one spouse breaks their vows they break the marriage "contract." ALL spouses (that aren't in open M) understand that infidelity could trigger the end of the marriage. when they cheat anyway, they have no right to expect any other result. I think it is just that simple.

when ESD's wife cheated she soon became "one of the women he is seeing." if she is still interested in him then she has no right to expect anything more from him, unless or until he decides to give her another shot at marriage. 

as far as his daughters go..well....got to say that he is being a BETTER father to them than just about every other BH that is in R is being for their kids. He is setting the right example for them; teaching them exactly how they should handle betrayal and humiliation. sorry but most BS with children, trying to keep a marriage alive with a WS, are setting the WRONG example. teaching their kids a lesson that if followed will cause them more anguish when they grow up, not less. teaching them that it is forgivable to be devalued and humiliated by your marriage partner. children will be emotionally healtheir if they DO NOT consider adultery forgivable, at least not reconcilable. Whether he knows it or not, ESD is being exactly the kind of father his daughters need, under the circumstances his WW caused.


----------



## wmn1

bandit.45 said:


> This isn't a revenge affair he is having with this new girlfriend. He is not married and can date whomever he wants. He is doing it out of his kids' line of sight. This girl is into him.
> 
> As for him and his ex, they are two divorced people who get together once in a while to fvck. She enjoys spending time with him on occasion, and she and the kids are being supported by him.
> 
> The ex has it made in the shade as far as I'm concerned. She gets to remain friends with the ex-husband she screwed over, gets to have sex with him when she wants, gets his support and gets him to pay for the house she's living in. She doesn't have to cook or clean for him anymore, doesn't have to worry about taking care of him...all she has to worry about is getting her girls to school and taking care of their needs. Together they seem to be co-parenting their girls well.
> 
> I'm trying really hard to see who is being used or taken advantage of here.



This is an interesting perspective. She may have it better off than he does. Not sure. I wonder if the kids are confused by the situation. I know a couple who is going through divorce right now. They are 'swingers' who obviously couldn't handle their own jealousy. While that is not the case here, they have had so many different partners that the kids have grown up thinking this is acceptable and now the kids around 20 or so (2 of them) can't be in a committed relationship because they learned bad habits. 

Regardless, both of these two seem to be okay with things, who am I to give a sh5t.


----------



## wmn1

LongWalk said:


> That is a subjective description of their lives, Bandit.
> 
> My understanding is that ESD works shifts in a tough industry. When he leaves the shifts he goes home and home is the house where his ex wife lives with his daughters. He is in no sense an occasional guest. He has his clothes and other possessions there. He sleeps with ex in the same home. I presume they do not go to a hotel, but he will clarify.
> 
> Ex knows he has other women because she roughly knows his schedule. She has attempted to rein him in but he told her that if she does not like it, he will end their LTR. Her choice. If she sees other men, he will also cancel the LTR.
> 
> This may be a good situation. Maybe she will chase him till the cows come home. But if ESD loves another woman much more than his ex, it is hard to believe he goes home as often. Does he have another house or apartment somewhere?
> 
> Does he spend some of his rest time in OW's home? Does his ex know his location?
> 
> ESD is a good guy. He has even forgiven his Ex but he has not forgotten. I'll bet that his Ex will eventually reject the current arrangement. It may take some time. If she accepts indefinitely, does that mean once the girls are well into high school ESD is going to dump his Ex. Once they go to college is he still going to stay with his Ex?


all very good questions and as you mention, if I was a betting man, I agree with you that this LTR is dead.


----------



## NoChoice

I want to pose a hypothetical question. Is it possible to gain appreciation for something that you once found of little value? When I was young I didn't care for 57 Chevy's that much and if I had had one I would not have treated it very well. Now however, after maturing and growing wiser, I find the style, simplicity, solidness and elegance of design very appealing and now whenever I see one I have deep appreciation for it.

My point in this thread was that perhaps ESD's wife has gained a heretofore unrealized appreciation for her 57 Chevy. I can't know this of course but is it possible?


----------



## cpacan

*Sv: Re: This is a part of my story as told by me in a metaphorical style.*



NoChoice said:


> I want to pose a hypothetical question. Is it possible to gain appreciation for something that you once found of little value? When I was young I didn't care for 57 Chevy's that much and if I had had one I would not have treated it very well. Now however, after maturing and growing wiser, I find the style, simplicity, solidness and elegance of design very appealing and now whenever I see one I have deep appreciation for it.
> 
> My point in this thread was that perhaps ESD's wife has gained a heretofore unrealized appreciation for her 57 Chevy. I can't know this of course but is it possible?


I think it's possible that she's grown to value it... too. But probably hard to ditch dreams about a new car. Trouble is that these new cars come with a price tag.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

bandit.45 said:


> ESD, does the arrangement go both ways? Is your ex allowed to date and sleep with other men?


Yes bandit it does goes both ways. However she currently doesn't choose to see anyone else. And that is her choice. 
She is very responsible mother and woman in most regards. So I know she is not mentally disturbed somehow, and I know that she chooses to do what she feels is best for her and for our daughters. She has dated other men since our split, but usually this just makes her sad, as most men are pretty lame in many regards. Or if not lame, entirely unspectacular. And no.... This isn't just me talking about sex. 

I always did spend a good deal of my time and attention on focussing on sensual connection and sexual learning. As well as communication and relationship techniques. So I'm sure any other man would be just as good if he was focused as such. But in other areas I'm deficient as a result of my focus on those things. For example I know almost nothing about the current sports standings in any sport ....... I know the game, I know the teams.....i played many sports and still do. But spending a great deal of my time on things like that just doesn't appeal to me. So I choose to focus on things like those mentioned above. 
So I suppose of a woman was a huge sports fan..... She may not like the way I focus on making our connection strong and passionate more than I do on whether the steelers beat the bucs this weekend. 
So to each his own.


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks for the update.

Still curious, do you have two residences? Or when you get off work in your ex's place your home?

How does she deal with the disappointment of you not coming round?


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## Emptyshelldad

LongWalk said:


> That is a subjective description of their lives, Bandit.
> 
> My understanding is that ESD works shifts in a tough industry. When he leaves the shifts he goes home and home is the house where his ex wife lives with his daughters. He is in no sense an occasional guest. He has his clothes and other possessions there. He sleeps with ex in the same home. I presume they do not go to a hotel, but he will clarify.



Longwalk.....long time no see..... Couldn't resist 
You are correct I work varying shifts far from home currently. When at home it's not like we play house. The kids don't really see us dating or being abnormally affectionate to one another as I don't believe this would be healthy for them at this age to understand. They know us just as a mom and dad who aren't together anymore but still both love their children very much (like so many of their friends parents) .
I think a lot of these assumptions about what I am or who I am and how I "must" treat everyone in life including the women I see are based largely on the fact that, as many numerous cases on here seem to indicate, most BH are usually beta type males, or at least viewed as such by their ww. 

And often their ww chose (yes a choice, not a mistake) to have sex with an alpha type male....(never liked labels anyhow, I just a who I am, I'm not following some douche bag rule guide on how to be so others see me as a certain type....I am me....simple as that) 

So they in a way have to believe I'm all of these horrible things in life because otherwise it forces to them to confront the part of themselves that they really don't want to..... If they knew me at all they'd see that I am very much a caring and loving father, even though I choose to let women decide for themselves and not choose for them to avoid them "being taken advantage of" by me. No one is being led on in any of those cases. I was very honest and upfront with all of them including and most especially my ex. 

This is the same type of attitude that a "player" took advantage of your poor ww and seduced her by manipulation..... When in fact she is an adult and is perfectly responsible for her own choices.... This is not taking advantage of anyone. They make their own choices.... Like all real adults do. 





LongWalk said:


> Ex knows he has other women because she roughly knows his schedule. She has attempted to rein him in but he told her that if she does not like it, he will end their LTR. Her choice. If she sees other men, he will also cancel the LTR.
> 
> This may be a good situation. Maybe she will chase him till the cows come home. But if ESD loves another woman much more than his ex, it is hard to believe he goes home as often. Does he have another house or apartment somewhere?
> 
> Does he spend some of his rest time in OW's home? Does his ex know his location?
> 
> ESD is a good guy. He has even forgiven his Ex but he has not forgotten. I'll bet that his Ex will eventually reject the current arrangement. It may take some time. If she accepts indefinitely, does that mean once the girls are well into high school ESD is going to dump his Ex. Once they go to college is he still going to stay with his Ex?




I can't tell you about what the future holds for me and ww. I can tell you that I don't hate her. I do have another place I stay while I'm in town. And I usually just stay with the other girls when I'm not in my home town. Honestly the biggest threat right now to ww is that I may fall for a another girl and she will likely not feel my forgiving nature towards ww.... And as such is not likely to enjoy how much ww is still involved in my life.


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks for the clarification.

Has your ex managed to make friends in the new town? Do so share any friends there?

At the end of the day, you are done with your ex as the woman in your life. You are not sure if you want any woman to claim you, but sometimes you think you might enter an LTR with the one with whom you really enjoy spending time. And this woman might try to marginalize your ex and you recognize that you might have to do it to keep the new woman happy.

Who knows how long this undefined situation will last?


----------



## drifting on

Emptyshelldad

Good to see your update. I still see the pain you carry in your words. The disbelief that your marriage has been nuked and family torn apart. I too had difficulty that my marriage exploded, I'm hoping it can be reconciled. Your feelings and mine mirrored each closely, I feel dead on the inside. I hope you find peace and happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Well..... I am just checking in to say hi. And let all of my friends here know that I am happier now than I ever was ever with my ex. I have been with a woman now for about a year or so and I have never felt this kind of elation before. I am scarred up, but I am no longer bleeding.... And no longer an empty shell. 

So for those of you going through this right now...... It can get better.... Perhaps it's God plan for this to happen so you can meet the one you were truly destined for.... Wow.... I never thought I'd thank god for what happened....


Anyone out there still? Floating in hurt?


----------



## Chaparral

Emptyshelldad said:


> Well..... I am just checking in to say hi. And let all of my friends here know that I am happier now than I ever was ever with my ex. I have been with a woman now for about a year or so and I have never felt this kind of elation before. I am scarred up, but I am no longer bleeding.... And no longer an empty shell.
> 
> So for those of you going through this right now...... It can get better.... Perhaps it's God plan for this to happen so you can meet the one you were truly destined for.... Wow.... I never thought I'd thank god for what happened....
> 
> 
> Anyone out there still? Floating in hurt?


It really helps others when the old posters come back with their success stories.

Good luck


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## Chaparral

Btw, what's your ex up t these days?


----------



## ConanHub

Exceptionally glad to hear your update.

Good work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

You made moving on work for you. 

Your ex blew it. When did you realize she could never win you back?


----------



## LongWalk

Happy for you. You're decision to move on worked for you, even if it took time.

Sad for your ex. She isn't such a bad person but she blew it. The irony is that she really came to appreciate you after she strayed and got caught. She did not have the ability to win you back. But there are plenty of people for whom cheating is a deal killer.

Sounds like she tells you about her life and her disappointments. You can't ride in and save her. The connection is gone. 
Sounds like your desire for her is gone.


----------



## Emptyshelldad

Many years passed and so much has happened to land me back here again. It would seem God is trying to show me that I was on the right path before and that I am not meant for love after all. I just now was able to get back on this forum.


----------



## Casual Observer

Emptyshelldad said:


> Many years passed and so much has happened to land me back here again. It would seem God is trying to show me that I was on the right path before and that I am not meant for love after all. I just now was able to get back on this forum.


Am I misreading or are you saying things haven’t gone well for you? Not meant for love... ouch?


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## Dragan Jovanovic

What happened?


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## sokillme

Emptyshelldad said:


> Many years passed and so much has happened to land me back here again. It would seem God is trying to show me that I was on the right path before and that I am not meant for love after all. I just now was able to get back on this forum.


Not again!!! :surprise:


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## Emptyshelldad

Yes sadly, the woman I posted about just before my long hiatus has been cheating on me from the start it seems. I found out about some of them on Easter Sunday 2018. I have been in a really dark place at times..... man I thought the first time was bad....but I pray no one goes through this a second time. I've had a noose around my neck a few times and a revolver in my mouth once. But I always seem to pull out of it just barely. 

But this post......it brought me back to where my head was before I met her..... I was so much happier...... I felt kinda hollow still but it's nothing compared to the feeling I have now. I'm just.....man it's really bad. I'm sure I'll end up posting even more about what happened as time permits but it's so long and drawn out that I don't want to rush it and chance out in the chance that the thorough story will help someone else avoid my fate somehow.


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## oldtruck

Not to kick you when you are down. Sometimes men go and find another woman like the last one 
that they had before.

Its not you but the kind of woman that you want to date.

You pulled through and you will pull through again.


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## OnTheFly

Emptyshelldad said:


> I'm sure I'll end up posting even more about what happened as time permits but it's so long and drawn out that I don't want to rush it and chance out in the chance that the thorough story will help someone else avoid my fate somehow.


When the time comes, we'll be here to listen.


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## TDSC60

Hopefully you did not marry this "new girl".


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## Tell me more lies

I can relate ESD. I had the misfortune of picking two different cheaters. 

One I married and had 2 children with and spent 13 years with a serial cheater. Lots of pain with that one.

The next one I lived common law with for almost 4 years. It hurt just as bad. 

You know the drill, eat drink lots of water and get to the gym. See a lawyer, to understand where you are legally etc.

Like me, you will get through this **** storm.

Stay strong.


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## alte Dame

I'm so sorry to hear this. How are things now with your WW? Are you still living together? If so, is she still cheating?

Please, please, if you feel like you might harm yourself, call the suicide hotline or 911. Please.


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## VladDracul

Emptyshelldad said:


> the chance that the thorough story will help someone else avoid my fate somehow.


Put down the gun, get the rope from around your neck and your head out of your azz. Change you attitude about women. Where one cheats and fall by the wayside, there a many others that will fill her shoes. If you have to go through ten or twenty to before finding one committed to you, that's ten or twenty you've banged on a regular basis. You just don't need to marry the first rebound chick you run across. You may not ever find love, but you won't be short on your share of poon tang. You know what the three F club is, don't you Dawg. Until you get to the point where you need a woman that knows the signs of a stroke or heart attack, ask yourself if its really that bad to change models when the need arises. It may not be exactly what youre looking for, but that cloud does have a silver lining. 
Remember, too many men think loving a woman requires hanging around and letting her ruin you.


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## sokillme

VladDracul said:


> Put down the gun, get the rope from around your neck and your head out of your azz. Change you attitude about women. Where one cheats and fall by the wayside, there a many others that will fill her shoes. If you have to go through ten or twenty to before finding one committed to you, that's ten or twenty you've banged on a regular basis. You just don't need to marry the first rebound chick you run across. You may not ever find love, but you won't be short on your share of poon tang. You know what the three F club is, don't you Dawg. Until you get to the point where you need a woman that knows the signs of a stroke or heart attack, ask yourself if its really that bad to change models when the need arises. It may not be exactly what youre looking for, but that cloud does have a silver lining.
> Remember, too many men think loving a woman requires hanging around and letting her ruin you.


Yep, and I would add, judge the person you date on how they treat other people not you. How do they treat their parents, the neighbor who is annoying. Do the do what they say they are going to in small things that don't matter, with insignificant things. Do they show grace, do they believe in honor. Talk to them about loyalty, and not loyalty to you loyalty to there friends, themselves. But in passing, not in formal discussions. Pay attention to what they are really saying, and even if they say the right things verify that they act on them. Learn their history. Study their character in everything that has nothing to do with you, in everything that was hard in their life. That is what you judge them on. Not how much they are infatuated with you, because we all are infatuated in the beginning. 

Remember love is NOT that feeling of desperately wanting to be with someone.


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## VladDracul

Hopefully he'll remember that life is pretty good after you get through the hell. Or look at it like I try to do. Its better to have love and lost than to never have banged her.


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