# My husband just filed :(



## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I’d love to hear some advice. My husband just filed for divorce last week. Prior to that he was getting frustrated and sad that I kept complaining about his work schedule. I said some pretty harsh things including you should move out of the bedroom because we don’t have much of a relationship. I said it in anger to move him to work on things with me. It was childish and selfish. He didn’t think we had as much of a problem and that much of the complaints were in my head. He was very hurt by that. We had been fighting a lot the past few months more than before. Neither of us handle conflict well at all. Just the day prior we were planning our the logistics of updating my son’s room . How could he pull the trigger in a week. Was he faking it?

I have so many many regrets . He said be careful what you wish for , you may just get it days before leaving. He said people keep telling me to leave. I did all the things people say can push the spouse away the day he told me he had filed. I cried, I begged, I promised I’d do anything to make things better. To let me show him I could be better. He cried and said he loves me, which makes this so hard. He told me to think about myself and the things that have happened. I asked for marriage counseling which we haven’t tried, and he said I never wanted it, which was not true. I had asked him to start with each of us getting our own therapist and we could get the marriage counselor after.
I asked for a separation instead, and he said we’ll be separated for at least 6 months until it’s final and said who knows, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I kept making promises. He said he was sticking to his decision.
A week went by. I only talked to his father. I apologized for how they must be feeling and expressed my regret that I didn’t learn from my mistakes before the end. I just saw him yesterday, when he came to pick up my son. He tried very hard not to cry. I asked if he’s still considering counseling during separation..he said yes. We both were polite, but clearly in pain. He didn’t wear his wedding ring...... I was devastated.
It’s only been one week, but I just hope he rethinks this. Anyone have thoughts. I want to apologize for my part in the marriage. I just don’t know what to do. The legal moves have started. Just one month ago he was telling me was devoted to me and loved me intensely. He said he thought about me constantly. Just 1 month ago.....I was a good


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's a good sign that he's agreeing to counseling. A fair number of people file for divorce and then end up canceling the divorce.

I have some questions...

What is his work schedule that it had you so upset? 
How much control does he have over his work schedule?
Has the number of hours he's work increased more recently? If so why?

There are two books that I think would help you. These are in addition to any counseling: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order and do the work that they suggest. At some point, if your husband comes around get him to read the books with you and then do the work together.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you for your reply and boom suggestions. I will read those for sure!

He hasn’t decided counseling. The day after he filed and said he’s firm on his decision, he said I’d like to _consider _counseling during separation. When I asked yesterday if he’s still considering what we talked about. He very quickly said yes. Other than that he still hasn’t tried reaching out to me. It’s only been a week, but I get very anxious and scared with uncertainty. It makes me worry. I have to see him again Wed Am to get my son back, and I don’t know how to approach him or talk to him. I don’t know if it’s a good idea yet to apologize or wait until he does the therapy. Would it hurt my chances of doing therapy with him if I apologize?

He has always had long hours. He always said you knew that when we go married. He leaves at 5:30-6 and returns by 7pm.There are so many errands that we don’t always have time to hang out. I always would complain, but not that much prior to Covid. When Covid happened it became significantly worse. I felt lonely and sad that all my plans for the year as a family were axed. I put the pressure to make me feel less lonely on him without recognizing the issue was lack of socializing. I kept telling him I have nothing to look forward to. Give me something to look forward to together. The 2weeks prior to his filing he was very busy. Coming home around 10. I felt like I was left with all errands on my own and no companionship. It wasn’t his fault at all. I would say are you really working? (I’m an idiot who allowed my moms toxic paranoia get to me). He’d FaceTime me from work with other people working nearby.

I think my last statement really hurt him and that’s when he pursued divorce. I’m just hoping this is not a hopeless situation . I feel so stupid for focusing on the wrong things. I didn’t focus on how tired and stressed he was. He kept saying it’s not like I want to be there. I’d much rather be here. I hate this too.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also he loves his job and has some control over his schedule, but not much control over the past 2 weeks.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you have a job? Or at least did you have one before COVID19?

How long have the two of you been together and married?

Does he have weekends off? If so were the two of you spending time together when he was off?

Do you know where he moved to? 

An apology might be ok. But if you do it keep it brief. A sentence or two. Marital problems are seldom the fault of just one spouse.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

We both have jobs still. I work part-time. He is full-time. We've been together for 4 years, but married 2.5 years. He has weekends off and those are our times together with our two year old...so it feels more like parenting together and then in the evenings we try to spend it in some way together. To me it was unsatisfying because all we did was watch movies together. There wasn't much romance. He isn't a romantic guy and told me that it's just not in his nature. I was always the planner who came up with activities. In the past few months i pressured him to do the planning and try to do something weekly. He had a hard time with it and I continued to act angry that he never put in an effort. Again I'm a fool. He kept saying you need to give a little too it would go a long way, but i kept focusing on him than myself . So so stupid! The weekend prior to last he worked the whole weekend. So it just made me feel like I was alone for 2 weeks. He wasn't lying about his whereabouts. His father confirmed. 

He is currently staying with a family member nearby, but per the lawyer is looking into apartments. I'm so sad about that. I wish he'd just come home.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I'd just like some advice on how to not push him away. Any thoughts about whether this situation looks hopeless. Any recommendations on how to act on Wed, so that he is more open to reconciling or trying therapy. One thing he was very surprised about yesterday was that I had removed my mother from nannying. He always wanted her gone and felt she created a lot of tension, judgement and stress. He had started to hate her in the end and said on Friday that was one of the reasons this marriage had ended. That I brought a toxic person into our marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sorry about all the questions but they help in understanding what's going on and to give good input. 

Is this the first marriage for both of you?

From what you have said so far, this is hardly all your fault. You might have gone off on him about not spending enough time together, but it sounds like he has not been willing to put any effort into your relationship. Spending time together watching TV is basically not spending time together.

One of the major point of those books is that a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you, focused on each other. This is the minimum it takes to maintain a strong, passionate relationship.

I think that it would be ok for you to apologize to him for attempting to get him to address the issue with you by being harsh with him. It's ok for you to apologize to him for you not handling being isolated well. 

He's been very wrong not put a priority on spending quality time with you. So don't apologize for you wanting to spend time with him. You are justified in that.

Now you 'fired' your mother as nanny. Was your mother taking care of your child when your husband was at home? Or was she only there during the day when he's at work? How much exposure did your husband have to your mother? 

Do you have other family members? If so, is your husband ok with you having a relationship with them?

Do you have friends who you do things with? Is your husband ok with you doing that?

Your situation does not look hopeless. As I said earlier, a fair number of people file for divorce but stop the divorce and get back together. 

Now, how do you act when you pick up your son? At this point I'd suggest that you keep it to the business of picking up your son. Don't use this as an opportunity to talk about your feelings with your husband. Instead, why not ask him to set up a time when you two can meet to talk? You could do that now. Send him an email or text asking him to meet you somewhere to do that. Then you can focus on your relationship issues and not also have to be concerned with taking care of your son at the same time.

I think you also would benefit from writing down what you want to tell your husband so that you can think it through. Right now your thoughts seem very scattered. You need to really think this through.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The dude is working his butt off. You think you could cut him some slack? Oh wait.... your bored so the world should stop.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I should have cut him some slack. I should have been more loving when he was tired, but I felt so lonely. There was this deep yearning for closeness, that I couldn't satisfy. I didn't realize it was my approach and perspective on our relationship that was the roadblock. I agree, I wish I had behaved differently


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also he doesn't mind me spending time with other family members. All our other friends are keeping distance due to cover. My mom rarely saw him for more than a few minutes on weekdays, but a lot more on Sundays. She is a very critical person and that really bothered him. She also occasionally would force her way into our fights even when I told her to stay away. She would lash out and blame him for the fight without thinking about my part in it. He hated that and it really really ate away at him. One thing he said was she was so hurtful to me and you wanted me to apologize to her, the day he told me he wanted a divorce. So getting her out was very surprising to him yesterday.

Also, yes I have been jumping around a lot. I'm sorry for being so scattered. I can write down my thoughts in a nice letter and talk to him at some point when he's ready. I just don't want to push him to talk because he's said he's not ready to talk and needs space to think and reflect. I told him yesterday whenever you're ready, I'm here to talk and he said ok. That's it so far. I really hope he reaches out and then i can have this important discussion and apologize for the things I've done. 

I also hope that he's opening to reading the books you suggested and doing marriage counseling.

A part of me is tempted to do some grand gesture like getting on my knee and proposing to start a new marriage together or something else silly. I think man don't respond as warmly to that as women, so that could backfire. :0)


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

From a mans perspective I would say the best thing you can do is give him the space he is asking for. For me if I got more than a few simple text I would get irritated. I would hate any kind of huge drawn out discussion..... at least until I was ready for it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Having a mother-in-law involved is HUGELY disrespectful to a man. He married you.....not your mother.

I’m not saying he is a blameless angel but you definitely didn’t help yourself


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you Mr.Married! I think you give a very nice perspective from a man's point of view! I appreciate any insight from anyone and all on here. It's a very scary time. I could lose the love of my life because of such stupid things. things I firmly believe can be fixed. His still needing time to consider counseling makes me think he's not sure if it'll help.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Yes I know.... She was a disaster! I always thought the he was only feeling a small portion of her harassment. That i was protecting him from the majority of it because I dealt with so much negativity and criticism from her. I was again very foolish. I wanted her gone, but my son loves her....so I always caved when she apologized. I didn't even know how to find a nanny, and at least it forced me to look a lot harder. I'm proud of myself for setting up a daycare so fast. He was pretty surprised too! I'm nervous about him going (my son). He's always had his granny. So Wednesday will be a very scary day, but he loves other children...super hopeful he adapts to it easily.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also yes first marriage for both of us.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Nothing like the threat of divorce to make a person regret everything they ever did/said/felt/thought. What a poweful tool divorce is.

Look, you felt the way you felt. And you are hardly the only woman who has ever felt that way. My first experience with it was when I was around 13 years old and heard my mom on the phone with her nephew's wife. The wife was saying she was going to divorce her husband because he worked all the time and was never at home. My mother told her, "Oh honey, don't you know how lucky you are to have a hard-working husband?" Since I was so young, I didn't know what to think, but I did notice how uncomfortable my mother's remark made me. I can only imagine how badly that woman probably wanted to reach for my mother's throat through the phone lines. LOL

As an adult, I've heard many such complaints from women. I, myself, was once in a relationship where I felt pretty much the same way. I felt so lonely and then I remembered - yes, I actually remembered - that I had a boyfriend. HAHAHAHA Imagine hardly ever seeing your guy to the point that you actually FORGOT that you were supposedly in a relationship. He worked ALL-THE-TIME in his restaurant. I could call hm or go see him, and he was always there, so I knew where he was. I called him one day and said to him "I actually just remembered that I have a boyfriend." He came a-running then. But nothing was ever the same to add to the other problems we already had. He had a key to my house, so at night when he closed the restaurant was the only time I saw him. And that was for only for a minute because he was a minute-man, which I couldn't stand.

And I'll tell you this:





Why Women Leave Men : Marriage Builders, Inc.


'I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned.' 'My husband is no longer my friend.' 'The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex.' 'He is never there for me when I need...




www.marriagebuilders.com




In his article "Why Women Leave Men," Dr. Harley notes that women's most common reason is mental cruelty. But when women describe what they termed as "mental cruelty," it was better understood more as being their husbands were neglectful. The second reason women gave for leaving/filing for divorce was "neglect," which those women were able to more accurately term. So what do the most common and secondly most common reasons that women file for divorce add up to?

Neglect.

So understand that your feelings were legitimate. That you regret them now that he has filed for divorce doesn't negate how you felt about being alone and lonely while married to him. Yours was an extremely common complaint. And honestly, as much as you regret complaining now, it doesn't change the fact that he could have done something all that time you were complaining, but he did nothing. I know your husband loves his job, but looking into getting a different job could have been - and should have been - a consideration for him, but he didn't even try. You weren't the only inconsiderate person in your marriage. He not only neglected you by working so much, but he ignored your complaints the whole while. He minimized your concerns because they meant nothing to him. And what do you think that boils down to??? He could tell you all the time that he loved you, but words mean nothing without action.

Your husband didn't make his marriage a priority. He ignored and minimized his wife and then filed for divorce to place all the blame on you. And you're taking it! You are taking on all of the blame and making yourself feel like you did so much wrong to HIM that you drove him away and lost your marriage. You regret how you felt and regret not being more of an understanding wife of a man who neglected her.

The needs of men and women are entirely different. Women need their man around. They need loving attention outside the bedroom. If men can get by without seeing their woman the entire day and then come home wanting sex, then I guess that's the way men are. But women are NOT like that, and you have nothing to be ashamed of. You have nothing to regret.

And also think about the fact that had he not filed for divorce, you would be just as lonely today as ever and for the exact same reasons. Him filing for divorce only changed your reasons.

Stop regretting and start understanding this was not your doing but his.

And don't let anyone's biased remarks make you feel bad. They don't know what they are talking about. They don't know what you went through. They don't know how you felt. They have no idea that how you felt was the way you were supposed to feel because you are not like them/men.

You DID NOT owe that man any slack.

Now stop crying!
Stop regretting!
Go call a lawyer tomorrow morning and get mad.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> I should have cut him some slack. I should have been more loving when he was tired, but I felt so lonely. There was this deep yearning for closeness, that I couldn't satisfy. I didn't realize it was my approach and perspective on our relationship that was the roadblock. I agree, I wish I had behaved differently


So...you're desperate to hold onto a marriage that was deeply *unsatisfying* for you because your husband had no interest in any type of romance with you and you constantly felt lonely and alone.

Makes sense.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

In fact, him filing for divorce only shows and proves how neglectful, selfish, and inconsiderate he is.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

It was unsatisfying to me because instead of seeing it from his perspective and actively trying to put my end in, I just blamed him. He always said you could be more affectionate too or give some on your end. It would make a huge difference. I can't read minds. I never did that. So i feel like i can only own up to my end. He has his faults too. Don't get me wrong. He does, but he always made attempts, they just didn't work for me. We both weren't able to communicate how very well and I think it's because we weren't very self reflective. You can only change yourself not your partner.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Personally i feel him filing for divorce was a desperate act by him. Someone who was being crushed all around by work stress, exhaustion, feeling's of inadequacy, like he'd never make he happy, and resentment. It was selfish to a degree, but I can see him trying to escape a mentally difficult situation for him. Idk what to think anymore. All I know is there are many different ways I could have approached things. Many different things I could have done to create intimacy myself that I never did. That's why I'm angry at myself


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> A part of me is tempted to do some grand gesture like getting on my knee and proposing to start a new marriage together or something else silly.


HAHAHAAH HAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA 
Oh, please excuse me. I can't stop laughing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Oh my STARS!
Oh my STARFIRES!
I'm trying very hard to regain composure.

If you do this, then I declare.......

You're just desperate because you had no expectation that you would lose your marriage. You might have come down hard on him. You might have said some thingsthat were harsh. But your reasons for all of that were perfectly reasonable. He was the unreasonable one. Not you.

And what do your "new marriage" idea look like in your mind? NOT complaining about his neglect? ACCEPTING his inconsideration? ACCEPTING that he ignores you and minimizes your concerns? Oh wait, I guess this new marriage would mean you wouldn't complain or express your concerns about anything.

Girl, get a grip.

if you stayed out of his face and stopped begging, you'll make this whole thing easier on yourself. And he might change his mind.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Ok ok fine won’t do that. I know that would move me, but figured it would look kinda nuts in this situation. Thanks for knocking some sense into Starfire!
No by new marriage, I mean through counseling each of us working on our own issues to come out of stronger as a couple. I by no means want to be a doormat. I know it would be unsustainable and eventually we’d be right back here. I mean we both put in the effort to rebuild a new and improved relationship with therapy. Let go of past hurts. Communicate better. Negotiate through conflict instead of making demands. Like that.

so Star Fire- your suggestion is to give him space and stop begging. If he wants to come back he will.

this I already know....but waiting is hard when you love and miss someone. I just do know what he’s thinking and whether the things he’s said so far or his reactions are promising or ....well who knows. Sorry, basically was hoping for insight and direction. I get the direction, but I’m starting to see that insight...well it’s hard to give in this situation.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thanks Star Fire! I appreciate your perspective. I shouldn’t put myself down too much. I have feelings too. I like that you’re on my side


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@Crs2918 - You got married 2.5 years ago and have a 2 year old child. I think you said you've been together (living together?) 4 years. Do you think you would have gotten married had you not become pregnant? What were the things that held you together before the kid? Had both of you discussed children and that's something you wanted? I'm not suggesting that there's any animosity or lack of love whatsoever towards your kid from either one of you! Just trying to see where the kid fits into everything. You also early on referred to "my child" not ours. I assume nothing to read into that? Long way of wondering if your husband thought, with his work schedule, that a kid was a good idea at this time?

And might as well ask the question. How has intimacy been? You say he's not very "romantic" and my wife used to say that about me, but it was basically a way to deflect from my wife's inability to flirt and make me feel special. 

Unfortunately nobody here can tell you the odds of things working out because nobody here can get inside your husband's head. We can only get a glimpse of things from your perspective. What's encouraging is that you do sound open to understanding other perspectives. Keep in mind the importance of "understanding" vs doing anything & everything you can think of to "keep" him. You can't "keep" him; he's his own person with his own agenda and his own needs & desires. But understanding him may help you to see what he feels he's been missing. Have you both read the 5 Love Languages?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi! Yes I read it literally the week he chose to leave. I told him it was very good and he should read it, too. Of course that never happened.
Also damn, casual observer...that was amazingly observant of you. We got pregnant the day after the wedding. It’s a little over 2.5 years. I just rounded down.
Yes we had discussed children, but he was definitely not ready for that. He took it ok and was overall conflicted by it. I felt blamed for getting pregnant, but once our son arrived he was soo happy. He said he was a blessing and he has no regrets. He said he was sorry for making me feel like it was a bad thing, he just wasn’t ready for it at the time.
Yes I should just try to be understanding I know....it’s so hard but I need to let go. I just have this hope he’ll reconsider, and I don’t want to prevent that from happening by saying or doing anything dumb.

Any tips on future in person interactions when we meet to transition time with our son? Next up is Wednesday.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Communication is the cornerstone of any relationship. 
Sounds like there was minimal on both parties. 
Give him space but keep the lines of communication open. Let him know you are there, doing IC etc and that you have taken steps do the toxic persons don’t have much input. Work is work life is life they should run together but Hinder the other. One day at a time
Buffer


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you! I’ll try my best! It’s been a very rough week.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I will say this. It is hard as hell to come up with something to do working 60 plus hours a week. Then to come home and catching it for not doing it.

We have three kids. Moms have a full time job with them, especially if the husband doesn’t help. Parenting is a 24/7 job. You have complained that parenting is all you do, well it is true. That is what having a kid means.

Did you try to get family to watch the boy so the two of you could spend time together? Or was that your husbands job......

You knew your husband before the two of you got married. Yet you are demanding things that you know he didn’t do.

Did he do the things with you that you planned?

Then you tell him he might as well move out of the bedroom bla bla bla. Well he is doing what you suggested, he is just changing his residence to do it.

He obviously still loves you. I hope the two of you can learn from this and move forward together as husband and wife. There are several relationships that have been saved before and after the divorce. You just have to believe and work to that end.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The danger with separations is that he may find a new gal.
A lady who is easy-going and comforting.

In marriage, we need not add to each other's woes and to create additional pressure.

Life is hard enough without making those close to you....miserable.
Or, more miserable.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi! Yes I agree I shouldn't have added more pressure. I didn't complain to him about parenting, I just wished he would spend a tiny bit of his time when he came home talking to me, but that's not what happened. I actually tried to take care of all the errands, so he wouldn't have anything extra to do when he got home. He was always tired and didn't really know what to do to connect. I should have been more understanding yes! I agree I was selfish, but I missed him. I missed spending time with him. 

He did go along with my plans, but never tried to make any himself. I should have just planned things on my own. I always enjoyed it, but a part of me started to feel like i was being taken for granted. That's when things started going south. I wish i had handled things different. 

Do you think i should apologize? will that help?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also I always figured out care for my son when I planned things. I did all the parenting stuff until we split custody this past week. This is his first time buying clothes and making child care decisions on his own. I told him to reach out if he had questions. I think he'll do ok, but I miss my son terribly. I miss my husband terribly


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Crs2918 said:


> Hi! Yes I read it literally the week he chose to leave. I told him it was very good and he should read it, too. Of course that never happened.
> Also damn, casual observer...that was amazingly observant of you. We got pregnant the day after the wedding. It’s a little over 2.5 years. I just rounded down.
> Yes we had discussed children, but he was definitely not ready for that. He took it ok and was overall conflicted by it. I felt blamed for getting pregnant, but once our son arrived he was soo happy. He said he was a blessing and he has no regrets. He said he was sorry for making me feel like it was a bad thing, he just wasn’t ready for it at the time.
> Yes I should just try to be understanding I know....it’s so hard but I need to let go. I just have this hope he’ll reconsider, and I don’t want to prevent that from happening by saying or doing anything dumb.
> ...


I have no idea if this would work or not, but you can tell your husband that you know of someone who's been married 41 years, and for 43 years has had major issues dealing with trust and sex that had been tearing the husband apart, leaving him feeling unwanted, frustrated, rejected... and finally, a year and a half ago, the reasons for his wife's issues suddenly crashed down upon them. Things rooted in time before they even met each other. And he and his wife are involved in individual counseling, marriage counseling and even a sex therapist.

He’s making an investment knowing how much easier it would have been in the early years of his marriage, but his wife was in denial. You can tell him you’re here and ready to go to work on your relationship. That you still can’t imagine growing old in anybody’s arms but his.

maybe. Your mileage may vary.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Wow that's amazing. Very committed! I hope my husband is as committed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> Thank you Mr.Married! I think you give a very nice perspective from a man's point of view! I appreciate any insight from anyone and all on here. It's a very scary time. I could lose the love of my life because of such stupid things. things I firmly believe can be fixed. His still needing time to consider counseling makes me think he's not sure if it'll help.


If he does not want to talk yet, then give him the space he wants. For your own sake write down your thoughts and then keep editing them to make it as short and concise as you can. One paragraph. Then hang on to it for a while.

At this point you should turn your focus on yourself and your child. Give your husband the room that he wants.

So what are you doing for yourself? What can you do for yourself? Are you doing any kind of exercise on a regular basis? Start working on getting active and building your social life up. Maybe even get into individual counseling.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I just started individual therapy the day after he left. I told him very excitedly 2-3 days before he left that I finally found someone and that he should look too. I otherwise haven't done much all week. I'm getting less hyperemotional which is good. I think today is the first day of not being super emotional. This forum has really helped. I really appreciate everyone's insight and advice both positive and negative.

I'll write everything down as you said. I'll try to take more walks as exercise. 

I'm trying hard to have a positive outlook on life, but it's very hard when all I want is to see him and hear his voice. I know he needs space, but how long will he avoid me? Is he avoiding me because he doesn't want to be with me? Those are the questions that constantly run around my head.

One positive is that I can't wait to see my son again on Wed and spend the rest of the week and weekend with him. He's a sassy little guy who always keeps me on my toes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> Ok ok fine won’t do that. I know that would move me, but figured it would look kinda nuts in this situation. Thanks for knocking some sense into Starfire!
> No by new marriage, I mean through counseling each of us working on our own issues to come out of stronger as a couple. I by no means want to be a doormat. I know it would be unsustainable and eventually we’d be right back here. I mean we both put in the effort to rebuild a new and improved relationship with therapy. Let go of past hurts. Communicate better. Negotiate through conflict instead of making demands. Like that.
> 
> so Star Fire- your suggestion is to give him space and stop begging. If he wants to come back he will.
> ...


Here's an article that might help you some...*The Walk-away Wife Syndrome*

*@StarFires *talked about something similar. You are not yet at the walk-away stage, but you were on your way there. I'm posting the article so you get a glimpse into where things in your relationship were going.

Yes your husband was working long hours. But, having been in the same situation as he myself, I have an understanding of what working long hours like that do to a person and a relationship. Working long hours does not excuse a person from the responsibility to their spouse and their family. If you do get back with your husband, he needs to come to realize that he cannot just come home and plop himself in front of the TV... just as you will need to find a better way to communicate your needs to him. Those books I suggested for you address this.

You are right that you are the only person you can change. You are the only person you are responsible for. So work on yourself. Love yourself.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> I just started individual therapy the day after he left. I told him very excitedly 2-3 days before he left that I finally found someone and that he should look too. I otherwise haven't done much all week. I'm getting less hyperemotional which is good. I think today is the first day of not being super emotional. This forum has really helped. I really appreciate everyone's insight and advice both positive and negative.


That's what we are here for. None of us are professionals at this. Just think of us as friends who are here when you need us.



Crs2918 said:


> I'll write everything down as you said. I'll try to take more walks as exercise.


Remember that a good walk often as good as an antidepressant to controlling depression. Plus its just very good for your physical health too.



Crs2918 said:


> I'm trying hard to have a positive outlook on life, but it's very hard when all I want is to see him and hear his voice. I know he needs space, but how long will he avoid me? Is he avoiding me because he doesn't want to be with me? Those are the questions that constantly run around my head.


No one knows how long he will want this space he's talking about. This is why you have to put your focus on yourself and your son. Maybe give it a week and then evaluate your position.

Do you have an attorney? You say that he filed for divorce. Have you been served?



Crs2918 said:


> One positive is that I can't wait to see my son again on Wed and spend the rest of the week and weekend with him. He's a sassy little guy who always keeps me on my toes.


Yea, love that little boy. I feel badly for him that his family is ripped apart. 

Another issue is that if your husband is working from 5/6 AM until 10PM he is clearly not the person taking care of your son. Are his parents taking care of him? If not who is? If I were you, I'd talk to an attorney about this and that your son should be with you on the days that your husband works. The idea of child custody is not that his parents get to raise your child.

How many hours a day is your son in childcare when he's with you? Does it make sense to have your son in childcare with covid19? Are you concerned about that risk? If your husband is not around, why can't your mother watch your son for you? If the two of you get back together, after covid19 is more under control you could put your son back in some daycare facility.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I have already been served. They work fast here these lawyers.He usually isn't home by 10pm. Usually 645, but does occasionally get stuck working till 10pm. My mom was watching him while we both worked mon-wed, and then i watched him the last 2 weekdays. I always made it home by 6pm or earlier and did the getting ready for bed routine. He would occasionally make it for a 10-15 min play session then off to bed. 

We are going to give joint custody a try since my son loves his father, but if he can't manage to care for him this will have to be revisited in 6 months. I am absolutely concerned about covid, but have no options. No nanny for 1 day, and my mom really does create a very toxic environment. My husband was on board for daycare. He is staying home the 2 days a week he has him until he finds childcare, while I already have that arranged for my day. 

He just messaged me an update about my son. That was nice. I don't know how to respond or if it's just to show he's being a good parent for custody purposes?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> I have already been served. They work fast here these lawyers.He usually isn't home by 10pm. Usually 645, but does occasionally get stuck working till 10pm. My mom was watching him while we both worked mon-wed, and then i watched him the last 2 weekdays. I always made it home by 6pm or earlier and did the getting ready for bed routine. He would occasionally make it for a 10-15 min play session then off to bed.
> 
> We are going to give joint custody a try since my son loves his father, but if he can't manage to care for him this will have to be revisited in 6 months. I am absolutely concerned about covid, but have no options. No nanny for 1 day, and my mom really does create a very toxic environment. My husband was on board for daycare. He is staying home the 2 days a week he has him until he finds childcare, while I already have that arranged for my day.
> 
> He just messaged me an update about my son. That was nice. I don't know how to respond or if it's just to show he's being a good parent for custody purposes?


Just respond with something like "Thanks for letting me know." Keep it simple.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

ok thank you


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I miss my son, so I'm happy to hear from him about him....but that's all he will message about. Like he is doing it out of duty, but not because of anything else


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> I'm trying hard to have a positive outlook on life, but it's very hard when all I want is to see him and hear his voice.


I missed this post before and even though I said I would leave you alone, I do want to help if I can.

Those breakup feelings are very common. You can't stop thinking of him. You need to hear his voice. you desperately need to hear him say he still loves you. Even when you are the one who broke up the relationship, you still go through all these emotions of missing him.

I remember going through this when I was young. I felt so desperate, but I also knew I didn't want us to get back together. I just wanted to get him out of my head, so I thought I had to find a way to stop thinking about him. I considered going to the movies, but that would only last a couple hours. So then I wondered what could occupy my mind like a movie but for a much longer period of time. And then I thought about reading a book. Yeah, that's the ticket....but I only had textbooks at my house because I was in school.

So, I went to my mom's and told her "I need a good book to read." I knew she'd have some good suggestions because she was a voracious reader. She had boxes of books that she traded back and forth with various bookstores. She told me "Read the Bible. The Bible is THE Good Book." I retorted, "C'mon Ma, you know what I mean." So she handed me "Rage of Angels" by Sydney Sheldon (1983, that's how long ago this was LOL). 

She was right, it was really good and engrossing. Totally occupied my mind so that I couldn't think of anything else. I even sat in the Student Union Hall and skipped a class because I couldn't put it down LOL. When I emerged from that book a couple days later, ex boyfriend was a distant memory. My feelings of missing him weren't nearly so intense as they had been. The desperation was completely gone, and I was able to deal with the breakup much more rationally.

Incidentally, I surprisingly learned later that mom was also right about the Good Book, which I read cover to cover when I was in my 40s. So, if you're a religious woman, I highly recommend reading the Bible from chapter 1, verse 1, and continue on. It's good and engrossing and contains all the exciting and absorbing elements of any good novel. Much more, actually.

I also tried to read "Rage of Angels" again when I was in my 40s, but it wasn't nearly as good then. I guess our tastes in our 20s change drastically over time as we mature, but I sure did appreciate that book when I needed it.

Find a good book to read to clear your head. It will make all the difference.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

thank you for the suggestions!! I know I should move on and definitely should try to focus long enough to read something. I should try to forget him, but a part of me doesn't want to forget and wonders if he'll forget me. If we both forget each other I guess that means it wasn't meant to last.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I really appreciate your advice though!!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

The suggestion isn't meant for you to forget him. It's only meant to relieve the intensity and desperation of missing him.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

oh that's a good way to look at it. I feel like that just started today after talking to all of you guys on here!  
It really helps to hear so many perspectives. i haven't felt this calm all week


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

I am sorry you're going through this. Please bear with me here, a perspective from someone who did the "long hours, long absences" thing to provide for my family.

My first marriage was 30 yrs. We were a military family, my wife knew this going in, and the long hours and deployments we would face. But being told about the hardships and saying "I know" and actually trying to make a relationship work when you're living it are two different things.

During our first four years, I was actually gone for over two. We got married and six months later I was overseas without her for a year. Then when we were together I'd have these crazy schedules. One duty station I worked an eight-day week, so my "weekends" shifted a day every week while my wife got Sat/Sun off from her job. There were times I'd have to go home at lunch to have some time together because I was also on call all of the time. Of course, if I had known she was screwing her boss at the time I would've been out much earlier.

My point is having a spouse who works long crazy hours to provide for their family often gets the brunt of anger from their significant other over things they have no control over. I didn't choose my duty nights, I didn't choose the dates of the deployment, and I didn't "choose" to go on that trip. I got a lot of blame. We had our bouts about long hours and being away, but then my family was very well provided for and wanted for nothing. Of course, I could've just left and gone into the civilian world, but I worked so hard for my commission, from getting the scholarship to getting an MA degree, and really didn't want to give it up, and neither did my wife. When I retired I got a senior executive position that paid crazy well, but it was no different. Long hours, trips away from the family, carrying two phones around, having to respond to email after work, etc. So I gave it up for good. But all that sacrifice provided well for my family, our three kids get out of college debt-free, we were able to retire in my early 50's to enjoy life, all because of the early long hours and time apart. Unfortunately, she adapted by sleeping with other men. She couldn't handle it, I just wished I'd known much earlier and it would have been better for both of us. If you can't handle it, it might be best for both of you to look to a different future.

I hope things work out the best for you and your family.

ETA: A long time, experienced military wife once told my new wife: "Remember, there are going to be days when he walks in the door and has gone through the wringer. Sometimes we just need to dust him off and give him the support face another gruesome day. That's what a Marine wife does." That may be controversial to some, but sometimes I just didn't want to be yelled at because I had duty tonight.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> I miss my son, so I'm happy to hear from him about him....but that's all he will message about. Like he is doing it out of duty, but not because of anything else


Actually it's decent of him to let you know. My ex never, ever let me know anything about how my son was doing when he was with his dad.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi cromer, I’m Sorry about what happened with your wife. It’s not that I couldn’t handle it. I got so much worse in isolation and put more and more pressure on him. I used to handle his absences fairly well prior to that. I also wish I had been more forgiving and more empathetic. I was stupid and I don’t think I would make those same mistakes again. I truly feel I can do better and I feel he can too. If he had just come home and given me a hug and said this sucks I’m sorry. Would have felt nice, but he just wanted to be more accepting. I understand he shouldn’t have to apologize for something he can’t control. At the time, it made me mad. After thinking about it....I feel a but embarrassed for being selfish.

I just hope giving him space allows him to see me as a better person than he has in his mind right now. I hope it makes him want to fight for the marriage with therapy. I just worry he’ll get more convinced he’s doing the right thing, but I guess that’s what it means to let him go. You just don’t worry too much because if he comes back...he’s a keeper. If not, then maybe it’s for the best.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He definitely could have been more considerate of my feelings for sure Star fires. I agree on that. It should have gone both ways. Me being more accepting and empathetic, with him being considerate of my feelings as well.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> I got so much worse in isolation and put more and more pressure on him. I used to handle his absences fairly well prior to that.


That's definitely the wild card. I guess what I'm getting at is that each person must have the right partner in the right living situation to make it work. Now with the plague, your mother's influence, and other issues, it was the perfect storm of toxicity. Don't think I'm blaming you for anything. I remember days when I walked into the house and my XWW would hand the kids over and say "I'm out to dinner with some friends.". I respected her need to get away from being isolated with kids all day and wanting adult time. One thing that the military provides is a great spouse support and social systems.

Don't beat yourself up over this, because things generally find balance in the end. My guess is you didn't have the kind of support you needed available, and as we often do we lash out. Any time I see a story like this I remember back to how much I had to deal with both external (work) and internal (wife) generated stress. I didn't know how to find balance. I always hated that my career choice, made before we met and she agreed to it, but so much stress on our family and relationship. Frankly, I wasn't thinking about anything but getting myself out of a poor black hole of a family when I looked to a military career and having a wife never really crossed my mind at that time. But I did want to be a family man, but I was always afraid of not be able to provide. That fear drove me to work hard over the years. I guess a byproduct of growing up very poor in a broken home. Providing for my family was the most important thing in my life. I can't say it was the right decision, but I don't regret it.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> He definitely could have been more considerate of my feelings for sure Star fires. I agree on that. It should have gone both ways. Me being more accepting and empathetic, with him being considerate of my feelings as well.


When I got married, I had no idea what a healthy relationship looked like (my mother was married seven times). So we had a lot of discovery learning. I've always been empathetic and really tried to see things from her perspective. So when there were things I could do to make her life easier or showed that I was thinking about her, I did it. But some days I'd get home at 7 or 8 and be so tired I'd skip eating and be crashed by 9, only to get up at 4:30 am to do it all over again. When you hear "sacrifice" when it comes to the military lifestyle, especially that made by our spouses, it's no joke.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> He definitely could have been more considerate of my feelings for sure Star fires. I agree on that. It should have gone both ways. Me being more accepting and empathetic, with him being considerate of my feelings as well.


Good, it sounds like you are getting a better perspective on things. This is a two way street as it usually is in a relationship.

If he is going to work those long hours, then not only do you need to get more empathetic, but you need to get involved with things that keeps you from feeling isolated. This could be visiting with friends and family. Or get a hobby or two. Or join a gym and work out. Once the COVID19 lockdown is lifted there is a good website that has a LOT of things you could get involved in. It's Meetup - We are what we do One thing that comes to mind are meetups for moms and their children. The moms socialize and the children play.

Then, if you two do get back together, he needs to find some energy to put time into your relationship.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@Crs2918 i think there are always two sides to every story and you seem to be very hard on yourself here and giving your husband alot of leeway.
The reality is your H is not marriage material. Marriage is not about the H going out to work (you work too) and coming home and not engaging with his wife or making an effort to plan things, take care of other things apart from his job. He has neglected you. He may work hard (you work two jobs, a part time one and appear to do all the household stuff too) so I wouldn't be so quick to say its all your fault.
There was no effort to communicate, no effort to find out why you felt the way you did and do something about it. You kept telling him that you needed to do something for the relationship he goes out and files. I believe that he has something else up his sleeve.
How do you know he doesn't have another woman in the wings? It seems too sudden for a very short marriage.
You have to pull up your big girl panties and stop chasing after him, he is no leader of his household that is for sure and sounds very immature.
Do a hard 180 on him, take him at his word, no communication, nothing. Get counselling for yourself as I assume you have some issues with such a critical mother (maybe some of that has rubbed off on you). You need to live a life depending on yourself, join clubs, take up a sport, etc. Noone else can make you happy although he sounds like he did nothing for the marriage at all, choose more wisely the next time.

Do not leave any doors open for him. When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time, he has burnt his boats, you do not need a man who can take such extreme action not just affecting you but also his kid. In fact what he has done is a form of emotional abuse. He basically said through his actions, you either put up or shut up or he will file. Not the actions of a man worth being married to.
Not someone you can depend upon in hard times, you sound young and I suspect you will be better off in the long run. Do not go to counselling with him.
I guarantee he will have another woman lined up in the blink of an eye ( he may have already got one, i suspect he does, hence the fights, the neglect and his excuses). You will find out it may have little to do with you, it was all just a smokescreen.

Move on with your life, he is not worth keeping.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

StarFires said:


> Crs2918, this is how inconsiderate your husband is. This should help you to see what I was saying in my first post.
> 
> Unbelievable.


You don't understand the pressure of being a provider. So what is your story?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Cromer said:


> You don't understand the pressure of being a provider. So what is your story?


Bullseye!!!!!!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> Thanks Star Fire! I appreciate your perspective. I shouldn’t put myself down too much. I have feelings too. I like that you’re on my side


Just so you know, I am on the side of your relationship and marriage. You both need to give and understand more. Then when life gets hard, not to tear into each other.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> thank you for the suggestions!! I know I should move on and definitely should try to focus long enough to read something. I should try to forget him, but a part of me doesn't want to forget and wonders if he'll forget me. If we both forget each other I guess that means it wasn't meant to last.


Do you love your husband?

Are you going to fight?

Are you just going to give up?

What do YOU want?

Figure that out then fight for it?

This isn’t where either of you cheated on the other. There is no reason this can’t be fixed when the hurt starts to heal. If that is what you want. This post doesn’t sound like you really want the relationship to be fixed.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I love him very much. I have told him I want to fight for the marriage. I want to stop fighting. I have started therapy, reading books on marriage, and got my mom out.....all he said on Sat is he’s still considering marriage counseling....
no yes let’s do counseling. He’s still barely talking to me unless about our son.
How do I fight for a marriage if doesn’t want to?
Any suggestions on what to do?

Anything I can say on Wed? Or just as Mr.Marriage says give space?

I just don’t know what to do?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I’m just worried that he’s going to decide he’s better off without me. I don’t want to get hurt.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He’s been buying all these things and preparing his new location for my son. Sounds like there are zero plans to come back anytime soon. It doesn’t sound promising (


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he will be back and maybe he won’t. It’s obviously his choice to make and he might not be sure what he wants to do right now. So, yes, give him space.

My husband had a demanding career. So did I. But we chose to have a child and someone had to be the involved parent for the next 18 years so I didn’t ever put in the very long hours that my husband did. Plus he travelled a fair amount and could be gone for days, weeks or sometimes months at a time. It was not an easy life. I felt like a single mom and my choice to only have one child was primarily because of my situation. Did I wish things were more equal? Definitely. Did I want my husband home more than he was? Absolutely. But they weren’t equal and never would be.

If your husband comes back, then you both need to figure out how to make your marriage work. Counseling is a start but a lot of work goes into that and many aren’t willing to do the necessary work. If the opportunity is there, hopefully you both will take it.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you. I pray he does come back, but so far it will not be happening anytime soon or at all based on current responses. He really wants to he separate for now and only wants to consider counseling while separate. I understand counseling isn’t a magical fix and requires lots of effort. I just hope he is willing to do that. If not or he does it and doesn’t put in effort....we will fail.  

I should have handled things between us soo differently.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> I love him very much. I have told him I want to fight for the marriage. I want to stop fighting. I have started therapy, reading books on marriage, and got my mom out.....all he said on Sat is he’s still considering marriage counseling....
> no yes let’s do counseling. He’s still barely talking to me unless about our son.
> How do I fight for a marriage if doesn’t want to?
> Any suggestions on what to do?
> ...


Just show him by your actions. He will see it.

Call and set up MC yourself and let him know when it is.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Cromer said:


> You don't understand the pressure of being a provider. So what is your story?


Okay guys, put your hackles down. Great jeepers.

You've no idea if I know what it's like or not. But I've posted enough about what being neglected is like for a woman and neglect being the #1 thing that ends marriages, so there's no favor in boasting about neglecting your wife and ignoring her concerns. It didn't even seem necessary to share your story since it didn't fit the context. If anything, you couldn't be blamed in your situation since you had no choice in the matter. But the OP's husband did have options he didn't bother to explore, so it just seemed like an opportunity to slag your wife and boast of your own financial success at her expense. That woman pleaded with you, but you didn't give a darn, yet the whole world now knows what a terrible person she was. You made sure of that, while not offering any better an outcome or food for thought the OP could glean from except to ignore her own needs and think only of her hard-working husband. That's what neglectful inconsideration looks like. All we need is your picture, not the innocent bear.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In counseling you can say everything you want to say.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Thank you. I pray he does come back, but so far it will not be happening anytime soon or at all based on current responses. He really wants to he separate for now and only wants to consider counseling while separate. I understand counseling isn’t a magical fix and requires lots of effort. I just hope he is willing to do that. If not or he does it and doesn’t put in effort....we will fail.
> 
> I should have handled things between us soo differently.


I want to tell you something but deeply fear it may be too hurtful and you might not be able to bear it. Do you think you can, or should I refrain? You know your frame of mind, so be honest, okay?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I think I can handle it starfires. I made too many mistakes. I was so mean sometimes  I feel horrible and hope he has some faith in me to get better. He has been mean as well, but man I truly feel we could be better. How do you know without trying?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

He may have just realized that you two are not compatible. He works too much for your needs. You need a partner that doesn't work 12-13 hours a day, and he needs a partner that is more independent.

It's hard because you have a son together but my guess is you both can find more suitable partners in the future.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I'm a little worried. Not about you two reconciling, but the aftermath of reconciliation. The bottom line is, there are things you're not happy with regarding your relationship. Do you truly think you were being selfish and not understanding of him? I feel like you might be saying that to salvage the relationship, and hope you aren't willing to put your feelings aside just for the sake of that purpose. I'm not saying everything you did is ok, nor is the way he handled it...but the problems you mentioned will always be there, even if you do reconcile... so you should make sure you aren't setting aside your own happiness as well as his.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I truly feel I was being selfish. I also think Covid made my loneliness worse. I know deep inside how I could do better. I don’t think it’ll be an ongoing issue. Resentment from the past and anger just kept piling up. I want to let all that go.  I don’t believe in incompatibility. I truly believe as a couple you learn to adapt towards each other over time. We’ve just had a hard time with it.

I’m so sad about all this


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Here is my problem starfires, what about jobs that take a spouse away for work, say being deployed in the military. There are several things that can happen through life that takes spouse away for periods of time for work and not just in the military.

And for most men that work the backside off to provide for their family and then to be told Maybe you should just move out of the bedroom. Sorry that’s just a kick in the nuts, a big F you.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know it was so stupid 
I want to tell him how sorry I am


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Guys, please help me here.

I am feeling that if OP here was a man, and he was saying the he was stupid, neglectful, critical and disrespectful of his wife.... SO the male OP said the above...

Most everyone here would be saying you are an asshat, and a fool. You deserve for your wife to divorce you. In fact, if she has a new man already, you deserve that.

What is going on here. FROM WHAT the OP herself wrote, she was horrible to a hard working husband, and because he is not a doormat, and actually has balls, he is wrong and she is some kind of snowflake.

This is what this thread says to me... Have I lot the ability to comprehend English some how??????


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know I was horrible. He had said and did some bad things himself. Please don’t think it’s all me. I just know that I can change. I’m so sorry for what I’ve said and done. I just wish we could try to make it better and not give up so soon.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Does anyone think him still _considering_ marriage counseling during separation is a good sign or is it just something to appease me? Also starfire definitely don’t hesitate to be honest. I appreciate honesty.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You have every right to fight for your marriage. But if your H decides he wants a fresh start then you'll have to let him go. So fight now, but be prepared to give up that fight if he isn't wanting to change.

You honestly don't know what all his reasons are. It might be that one thing you said, but guessing it's more than that. He's probably been thinking about it for some time now, and finally pulled the trigger. His crying and pain is likely due to how much hurt you are expressing. Even wanting to divorce someone it would be pretty hard seeing how much pain the other person is in. But your pain can't be the reason for him to take you back. He'd have to reverse a very hard decision and think it could be different long term.

Most men I know are pretty set once they make a decision. But who knows.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Does anyone think him still _considering_ marriage counseling during separation is a good sign or is it just something to appease me? Also starfire definitely don’t hesitate to be honest. I appreciate honesty.


Look at your responses since I asked you the question. There was no way I was going to say what I was thinking. You gave me every indication that you couldn't handle it.

But now that you said it yourself, I will concur. Marriage counseling is often a welcomed tool for people who want out of the marriage. They can use the sessions to break the news gently but unequivocally and express their reasons while also knowing their spouse has a buffer in the person of the therapist to soften the blow. It's a safe place for both parties, and they use it as such.

Please don't take that to make yourself scared or anxious about meeting him in counseling. Just be prepared that it could go either way. Or, you can ask him if that's what he intends or if he's serious about working on the marriage in counseling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> Does anyone think him still _considering_ marriage counseling during separation is a good sign or is it just something to appease me?


Saying that he's considering marriage counseling could be a good sign. Or it could be him just saying it to shut you up. We don't know. If he is considering it and decides to do it, he'll let you know. Stop putting all your effort into something you have no control over. You have control over yourself. So work with your counselor and fix your own issues.

The best thing you can do for your marriage (and for yourself) is for you to work on yourself. Become a better version of yourself. Let him see the new, improved you. If there is any chance at all for your marriage to reconcile, it will be because you have worked on the things that led to your acting out.

You seem to be looking for a way to get him to do what you want him to do - work on your marriage. You cannot force that. Show him that you are worth taking another chance with.

Saying that, I'm not implying that you are 100% at fault. He has a lot of fault in this too. But you are the only person who you can work on and change. So do that.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

My background. Decided to divorce my wife (mid 30s for both, no kids) early in the decade. 

The next 3 years I spent working on myself. Work, gym, health, etc. I’m going to be real honest, coming home (After a long day at work) and not hearing your wife ***** was music to my ears. God, that time after divorce was so sweet.

What about sex and intimacy? For me, the juice was not worth the squeeze. I would rather forgo sex and embrace the peacefulness than be shackled to a woman who enjoyed some tension as soon as I walked in through the door.

And yes, she did want to get back together after a while. But then I asked myself, “did I, all of sudden become hotter, more attractive?” The answer was no. She just wanted The punching bag back.

Going to be honest, it’s not looking good for you in regards to reconciliation. I’m not implying it’s all your fault. But I can guarantee, your husband has been reading and watching videos online about the marriage. But doubt its material you would want to watch.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Sorry this post is long, hope you get some benefit from it. If none applies please disregard.
I used to work construction and it was 12 hr shifts. Sometimes 7 days a week. Up at 4:30 and work 6a-6p. It sucked but not having a roof over my families head would be worse in my book.

You want to be home with your wife and child soo much, then your wife starts acting mean spirited against you. She is stressed too but there is nothing you can do, you have to pay the mortgage and bills. So since you catch it at work and now home, you start avoiding it where you can...at home. You are stressed and soo tired from work and now you start building a wall to limit the attacks from the one who is supposed to love and support you. The one who used to make everything better. That wall is resentment and detatching from your spouse so it does not hurt soo bad.

When they start throwing the D word or L(Leave) word or S(seperate) that just adds more concrete reinforcement to that wall of protection. My wife used get mad about something and make comments that she thinks she just needed to leave. WFor a time we were looking and talking about buying a home...when she would say things like that it was a big stop sign for me. She was upset we were living in property owned by my parents at the time. She did not like living there and neither did I. When i would really get serious about owning a home, she would drop that word and i would throw on the breaks on searching for our own place. She was upset where we were, but her threatening behavior was reason we were still stuck where we were.

Only thing i can say would be to keep showing him a difference. Make his interactions with you be his happy and safe place. When he interacts with you it should be something he looks forward to doing. If he starts feeling safer with you he can start tearing down that wall.

I understand you are stressed about the situation with his hours. But it was not like he could set them himself. Coming against your spouse for something they can not change makes home more stressful than being at work, so then hes start withdrawing and becoming avoidant.

Just some aspect from my POV.
My wife come from a 10 yr marriage to a serial cheater that she endured alot to stay for that long and try to make the marriage work. Done things im sure she felt degraded for. I endured much from her. I would still like to beat his azz, time i had to tell her "I am not your damn ex-husband!" Then for her to talk about leaving when she was mad about clutter in the floor or on a chair, to me it was a was a BIG "I dont love you as much as i did my cheating ex-husband" since she tollerated all his crap and stayed for 10 yrs. And now she wants to leave over something like this? WTH. People can say the cruelist things out of anger. I would bite my lip off and not retaliate knowing she is going to be back to apologize...but there was more bricks layed in my wall. People need to realize you can't un-cut your spouse with that razor you had when angry.

I detatched from her somewhat as i had her on a pedestal. It hurt me to no longer see her up there. It was for the best, i lost 50 lbs in 2 months and it scared the crap out of her as i was somewhat checked out and almost back to wedding weight when i was 24yrs old. In my mind i was doing something drastic and she will change or i will be ready for the next marriage. I bought a house and i quit taking her crap and she changed a lot.

I hope and pray yall can right the ship. My marriage now has been the best it has ever been since i took command of my ship and put her in her place as my 1st Officer.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

That’s why I feel like a moron. I hope he can see I’m willing to right the ship. I hope that a part of him is doing this for the same reason. To get me to see what I’m doing. I just hope he hasn’t given up completely.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Guys, please help me here.
> 
> I am feeling that if OP here was a man, and he was saying the he was stupid, neglectful, critical and disrespectful of his wife.... SO the male OP said the above...
> 
> ...


LOL No BluesPower, it is doubtful that you've lost the ability to comprehend. I don't know what others would say if the situation were reversed. I only know what I would say, which are the same things I have stated here because they are not just my opinions but are based in fact, including the fact that his neglect is the main reason women end their marriage. The only difference is I did not and would not call her a snowflake. While I did acknowledge that she said some harsh things to her husband, I also said she needn't be ashamed of her needs and shouldn't regret them. That does not exempt her actions toward him though.

Honestly, you guys are the ones being biased. How many times has "a hard working man/husband" been bandied? And each time by a guy in pursuit of condemning her with no consideration for how many times you read a woman's needs mentioned and that his "hard working" is neglectful, particularly when he ignores her complaints and doesn't do anything to try to change the working circumstances. All you guys keep crying is "hard working man." I even recalled and related about my first time hearing of this when I was 13 years old. Good grief, I'm 60 now, so this is hardly anything new. I mentioned I knew of various other women who complained of the same thing and included my own personal experience. I linked to the article that notes women's number #1 reason for filing for divorce is this kind of neglect, as well as explained that a woman needs her man around and needs loving attention outside of the bedroom. But not just me, others have commented similarly in this thread.The Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome was introduced into the discussion, which is caused by neglect and being ignored. To boot, one guy related his own situation (who didn't at all intend for his post to prove the point for women) and showed how his wife poorly handled his neglect because she couldn't endure it. All totally ignored by some of the guys such as yourself. I suppose you won't appreciate me identifying your own neglect as inconsiderate. To ignore ALL this information, the statistical data, the various comments, the explanations, and the first-hand proof by one of your own is inconsiderate and biased only to subjectively jump to the man's side of the equation while accusing the respondents of being biased in her favor as if women do not and should not have a voice because their needs don't matter one iota. Only the "hard working man" matters.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> I’d love to hear some advice. My husband just filed for divorce last week. Prior to that he was getting frustrated and sad that I kept complaining about his work schedule. I said some pretty harsh things including you should move out of the bedroom because we don’t have much of a relationship.


I think it would help to know a bit more about how you handled your anger at him and details relating to it.

What was your sex life like? How often were the two of you having sex? Who initiated most often? I'm asking this because you said that he should move out of the bedroom.



Crs2918 said:


> I said it in anger to move him to work on things with me.


How many times a week did you say things in anger about all this? Did you go after him as soon as he walked in the door? Or was it later, after he'd had some time to unwind from work?

Could you give us an example of what you would say to him besides moving out of the bedroom? Were you yell? throwing things? What sort of hateful things did you say? Did you ever hit him or throw things at him? How long did you go on in these verbal attacks?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

StarFires said:


> LOL No BluesPower, it is doubtful that you've lost the ability to comprehend. I don't know what others would say if the situation were reversed. I only know what I would say, which are the same things I have stated here because they are not just my opinions but are based in fact, including the fact that his neglect is the main reason women end their marriage. The only difference is I did not and would not call her a snowflake. While I did acknowledge that she said some harsh things to her husband, I also said she needn't be ashamed of her needs and shouldn't regret them. That does not exempt her actions toward him though.
> 
> Honestly, you guys are the ones being biased. How many times has "a hard working man/husband" been bandied?And each time by a guy in pursuit of condemning her with no consideration for how many times you read a woman's needs mentioned and that his "hard working" is neglectful, particularly when he ignores her complaints and doesn't do anything to try to change the working circumstances. All you guys keep crying is "hard working man." I even recalled and related about my first time hearing of this when I was 13 years old. Good grief, I'm 60 now, so this is hardly anything new. I mentioned I knew of various other women who complained of the same thing and included my own personal experience. I linked to the article that notes women's number #1 reason for filing for divorce is this kind of neglect, as well as explained that a woman needs her man around and needs loving attention outside of the bedroom. The Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome to introduced, which is caused by neglect and being ignored. But not just me, others have commented similarly in this thread. To boot, one guy related his own situation and showed how his wife poorly handled his neglect because she couldn't endure it. All totally ignored by some of the guys such as yourself. I suppose you won't appreciate me identifying your own neglect as inconsiderate. To ignore ALL this information, the statistical data, the various comments, the explanations, and the first-hand proof by one of your own (who didn't at all intend for his post to prove the point for women) is inconsiderate and biased only to subjectively jump to the man's side of the equation while accusing the respondents of being biased in her favor as if women do not and should not have a voice because their needs don't matter one iota. Only the "hard working man" matters.


Which is exactly why Men are stupid (or more exact, ignorant) for marrying in the first place. I'm convinced you are never going to satisfy a woman completely (if sexually, not emotionally....if by providing, not by quality time). So, men go their own way.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

No for the past few weeks I kept saying this is abnormal. How is this possible? How are the hours so weirdly long? He said yeah idk it’s just bad timing and July is usually had. I never started yelling right away, but he could tell I was upset when he came home. I never threw things at him. I just sent angry texts saying I feel lonely like I’m a single parent. You could just try to be nice......which is dumb because I could have done the exact same thing . I should have thought about him first and then he would have reciprocated. He said that himself. I’m my own worst enemy.
As for sex he always initiated, but I did too occasionally. It was great premarriage, but we got pregnant so fast mine dropped. He felt insecure and I tried to reassure him. Then he started getting depressed in April. We had sex last in mid May. He started antidepressants a few weeks prior. I started getting paranoid that he hadn’t initiated and asked him about it after it had been 1 month without. He said idk why I just don’t have a libido. After 2 months I asked again. He said the same thing. Idk why. Maybe it’s because of our problems. That was hurtful. I said are you sure it’s not because of the meds. He went to brush his teeth and said yes I have wondered that too. I would love to have sex I just don’t know what’s wrong. Then I said can you make an appointment with your doctor. Maybe the meds need to be adjusted or changed. This is weird. He made an appt for the wed before leaving but “missed it”. Then made it for the Friday he left and said he planned to adjust meds. This was 1-2 hours before calling me to say he was done.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

StarFires said:


> LOL No BluesPower, it is doubtful that you've lost the ability to comprehend. I don't know what others would say if the situation were reversed. I only know what I would say, which are the same things I have stated here because they are not just my opinions but are based in fact, including the fact that his neglect is the main reason women end their marriage. The only difference is I did not and would not call her a snowflake. While I did acknowledge that she said some harsh things to her husband, I also said she needn't be ashamed of her needs and shouldn't regret them. That does not exempt her actions toward him though.
> 
> Honestly, you guys are the ones being biased. How many times has "a hard working man/husband" been bandied?And each time by a guy in pursuit of condemning her with no consideration for how many times you read a woman's needs mentioned and that his "hard working" is neglectful, particularly when he ignores her complaints and doesn't do anything to try to change the working circumstances. All you guys keep crying is "hard working man." I even recalled and related about my first time hearing of this when I was 13 years old. Good grief, I'm 60 now, so this is hardly anything new. I mentioned I knew of various other women who complained of the same thing and included my own personal experience. I linked to the article that notes women's number #1 reason for filing for divorce is this kind of neglect, as well as explained that a woman needs her man around and needs loving attention outside of the bedroom. The Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome to introduced, which is caused by neglect and being ignored. But not just me, others have commented similarly in this thread. To boot, one guy related his own situation and showed how his wife poorly handled his neglect because she couldn't endure it. All totally ignored by some of the guys such as yourself. I suppose you won't appreciate me identifying your own neglect as inconsiderate. To ignore ALL this information, the statistical data, the various comments, the explanations, and the first-hand proof by one of your own (who didn't at all intend for his post to prove the point for women) is inconsiderate and biased only to subjectively jump to the man's side of the equation while accusing the respondents of being biased in her favor as if women do not and should not have a voice because their needs don't matter one iota. Only the "hard working man" matters.


Well, I just read it differently.

And I have read all your posts. Everyone has their opinion, and you have yours, mine is different.

I think people are treating her like a snowflake. And yes, a man writing the same thing would be crucified.

OP, (Original Poster)… I hope you can wake up and I hope you can work out your marriage.

But you have to realize that there STILL are a lot of men out there that don't put up with this kind of BS. They just don't.

And I am not saying that he is perfect, at all, but I am saying the he did not, does not, deserve what you have been giving him.

DID HE EVER TELL YOU he did not like the way that you were treating him? Did you ever REALLY TALK in a calm way about your needs.

And @StarFires, No disrespect, but until you have been in the man's position like this guys is maybe he is not that bad.

Because here is the deal for some of you lovey ladies, YOU WILL NEVER Know what it is like for a man. Society EXPEXTS him to provide NO MATTER WHAT and he is a loser and an failure if he does not.

Women do not and cannot experience this ever if they are the SOLE PROVIDER. Why ? Because a woman that does this is "a SINGLE MOM" or, "Oh bless her heart, she won't leave that lazy loser".

I have done it, I raised 3 kids, and took care of my "sick" (read drug addict) wife, and I NEVER once got a pat on the back for what I was supposed to do.

I never once has someone offer to help me.

AND I NEVER once, expected a pat on the back for taking care of my family.

AND ALMOST Died doing all of that when I had a stroke after 26 years.

So you may want to give some of us stupid men just a little break...


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I did try talking to him calmly. I did tell him multiple times that I just want to talk to him. He never said that I was being hurtful to him. He just kept saying ok I’ll try to do that for you. I feel like I’m trying my best and I’m a failure. I said you’re not a failure, it’s just something we need to work on......I should have just focused on myself. I did try towards the end to do that. I was like I’ll take up crocheting and call my friends up more something to keep my mind busy. I was excited about the therapist to help me with this issue. It got scheduled finally after trying so hard for the sat after he left. I told him isn’t this exciting, thinking he’d be happy I was getting some help coping. That all happened the week he left. He still left  I asked how long was he planning this on the phone. For months? He said no just this week.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Crs2918,

I think it would help to know what industry your husband works in. Some have very long hours because of the nature of the work.. for example oil field workers, military, police, etc. Is your husband a manager or supervisor?

I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of all that has gone on.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Well, I just read it differently.
> 
> And I have read all your posts. Everyone has their opinion, and you have yours, mine is different.
> 
> ...



Here is your hug, BluesPower. 👯‍♂️
Sincerely because you deserve it.
(I hope that's a hug, emoticons are no longer labeled and I can barely see that thing)

I always wish there was kind of school to teach men how to be husbands and what it means to have a wife, and to teach women how to be wives and what it means to have a husband.

Have you ever heard of the *Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome*? No doubt you have.
It's about this same kind of thing being discussed and how women most often respond, which is to leave/divorce. The man ends up surprised and confused when she leaves because he didn't realize that ignoring her complaining had an expiration date. There have been a few guys here on the board in the past who experienced this and spoke of their regret.

If only they knew. If only they attended a school to teach them, they never would have lost their marriage.

Alas, there is no such school. And life goes on as it always has because it's real.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Here is your hug, BluesPower. 👯‍♂️
> Sincerely because you deserve it.
> (I hope that's a hug, emoticons are no longer labeled and I can barely see that thing)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the hugs, but I fixed my problem. I divorced, and I went thorough a series of wonderful women before I settled on my Betrothed.... 

Regret for divorcing, if that is what you are saying..... well, there may be a few but sister, I have not for one second, not even a millisecond regretted divorcing. I have not really read of many that did, for the most part, I think people are stone cold happy as **** the they are out of those relationships....


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

My husband does love me. He said it everyday and even on the day he filed. He cried and said that’s why this is so hard. He is a surgeon. Listen I know it wasn’t his fault for being late. I know it! I’m so ashamed that I couldn’t just comfort him. Sometimes I did. Just a couple weeks prior i would massage the knots in his back nightly for about a week. He knows that I care and that it was a hard time for me.  I’m hoping he hasn’t given up completely or with time will see that I tried so hard to show him how much I love him...just not in the way he wanted.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s the only one who knows what weight he gives counseling. Some do use it as a way to get out of the marriage but obviously that’s not true for all.

Honestly? Who knows how long it will take for him to make a decision. You need to find something else to focus on so this isn’t rolling around in your brain every minute of every day or else you will drive yourself crazy.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

As for sex he always initiated, but I did too occasionally. 

How often prior to meds? 2-3x week or month? Do you know? Being physical is my main LL i get seriously out of sorts and start to feel disconnected from my wife after the 4 day mark if there are no reason like injuries/illness. Once made it to the 10 day mark and she said we just had sex the other day!....uhm no it was 10 days ago!!!. She had no clue it had been that long. Bult up alot of resentment and hurt from back then. That was also basis for dropping 50lb and hitting the weights....i was upset and getting in better shape...if she did not notice....didn't have to cross that bridge thank goodness.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

The good news for you is if he is a Surgeon, once he sees how much it will cost to get rid of you, he will likely be motivated to make it work!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

His career is a whole other story entirely.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Umm I guess that’s one way to look at it. Prior to that it was once every 1-2weeks. There were pauses sometimes when he was busy and tired I wouldn’t initiate. I was trying harder in April, but after mid May we got more disconnected and the meds? Or something else stopped his libido.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Openminded said:


> His career is a whole other story entirely.


What do you mean?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> My husband does love me. He said it everyday and even on the day he filed. He cried and said that’s why this is so hard. *He is a surgeon.* Listen I know it wasn’t his fault for being late. I know it! I’m so ashamed that I couldn’t just comfort him. Sometimes I did. Just a couple weeks prior i would massage the knots in his back nightly for about a week. He knows that I care and that it was a hard time for me.  I’m hoping he hasn’t given up completely or with time will see that I tried so hard to show him how much I love him...just not in the way he wanted.


You married man who you knew was a surgeon which requires very long hours. So you knew what you were getting into.

Why was he working longer hours in the last 2 months? Was he working on covid19 patients? From all I've heard very few surgeries have been going on during the pandemic.

I was married to an MD, my son's father. He worked nonstop, was almost never home. He was also a mean sob when he was home. It turned out that a lot of the reason for his long hours was that he was cheating.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Thank you! I’ll try my best! It’s been a very rough week.


So he works about 13 hours a day? 
Does he have both Saturday and Sunday off?
Was working 10 hours a day in his power to do if he chose to?
What is his job?
What was the long term plan? Was he going to work this many hours until age 65? Was he just doing this for a year or two to can a good financial start? Was the plan ever to decrease his hours or change jobs?
When he was home (assuming he had the weekends off) were you two together, bonding, having quality time or was he off alone or doing other things?
If he never worked fewer hours were you ok with this being your life for the next 30 years?

Just to flip things....if my wife worked this much I'd not be on board and if it had no end....I'd probably want to divorce.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

So in July there’s a transition in trainees. It wasn’t so bad last year, but due to crazy circumstances and Covid they have been trying to operate like crazy for the past 1-2 months. With new trainees it’s harder. Also his partner had a death in the family so he volunteered to work his shift. All of this was confirmed. I just worried maybe he was doing something else because it was so particularly bad. More so than normal.
I also did not ask him to come home earlier. Just that when he came home to show some empathy for me for feeling so lonely. Again I was seeking help for this problem. It was never this bad for me precovid because I had a busy social life. Right after i became so isolated and I told him it’s driving me nuts.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He worked 13+ hours and as an academic had homework. Never ending homework. I understood this but wanted something...just some time with me. He thought he was but I never guided him on how to do it. He never told me what he was going to do. He kept saying it’s hard to predict. I’m looking into other jobs but who knows. I could see him doing this forever. Despite it being hard on his body.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Thanks for the hugs, but I fixed my problem. I divorced, and I went thorough a series of wonderful women before I settled on my Betrothed....
> 
> Regret for divorcing, if that is what you are saying..... well, there may be a few but sister, I have not for one second, not even a millisecond regretted divorcing. I have not really read of many that did, for the most part, I think people are stone cold happy as **** the they are out of those relationships....


Nope, that's not what I was saying.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> I know it was so stupid
> I want to tell him how sorry I am


I really don’t think you meant for it to go as far as it did. I think circumstances just got carried away and thing were said that were never meant.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

StarFires said:


> LOL No BluesPower, it is doubtful that you've lost the ability to comprehend. I don't know what others would say if the situation were reversed. I only know what I would say, which are the same things I have stated here because they are not just my opinions but are based in fact, including the fact that his neglect is the main reason women end their marriage. The only difference is I did not and would not call her a snowflake. While I did acknowledge that she said some harsh things to her husband, I also said she needn't be ashamed of her needs and shouldn't regret them. That does not exempt her actions toward him though.
> 
> Honestly, you guys are the ones being biased. How many times has "a hard working man/husband" been bandied? And each time by a guy in pursuit of condemning her with no consideration for how many times you read a woman's needs mentioned and that his "hard working" is neglectful, particularly when he ignores her complaints and doesn't do anything to try to change the working circumstances. All you guys keep crying is "hard working man." I even recalled and related about my first time hearing of this when I was 13 years old. Good grief, I'm 60 now, so this is hardly anything new. I mentioned I knew of various other women who complained of the same thing and included my own personal experience. I linked to the article that notes women's number #1 reason for filing for divorce is this kind of neglect, as well as explained that a woman needs her man around and needs loving attention outside of the bedroom. But not just me, others have commented similarly in this thread.The Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome was introduced into the discussion, which is caused by neglect and being ignored. To boot, one guy related his own situation (who didn't at all intend for his post to prove the point for women) and showed how his wife poorly handled his neglect because she couldn't endure it. All totally ignored by some of the guys such as yourself. I suppose you won't appreciate me identifying your own neglect as inconsiderate. To ignore ALL this information, the statistical data, the various comments, the explanations, and the first-hand proof by one of your own is inconsiderate and biased only to subjectively jump to the man's side of the equation while accusing the respondents of being biased in her favor as if women do not and should not have a voice because their needs don't matter one iota. Only the "hard working man" matters.


It takes two to tango and the truth is more often than not somewhere in the middle. here we don't have the husband's side of the situation, just what the OP is saying, blaming a lot of it on herself (in an attempt to save the relationship it seems).
Is the husband working a lot due to economic constrains in their household? if that's the case, is him the main provider and the money he brings in is what's keeping them afloat? if so that could be a reason for him as a provider being under a lot of pressure in these times of COVID 19 and the state of the economy. Or it could be that he wasn't paying too much attention to her for real and she started to notice it and feel it, and her response was to nag. Nagging is the worse for many men, they just respond by tuning out, then getting passive/aggressive. Or, hey, there's always the probability that he has someone on the side and he is using her nagging as and excuse to pull the plug. Anyways, no matter what, she should verify that probability. Other than that, she should give the husband his space because, if in reality he is done nothing that OP does would matter.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you for the insight. We had no financial pressure during this time. He was even helping plan stuff for the immediate future together. Like with the house and my son the Sunday before leaving. No body on the side. He was just working because he had to.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Just talking to you guys makes me feel less lonely. I appreciate it so much. I feel calmer every time I talk to you all


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Does anyone think I should approach him again to apologize this Wednesday? I want to ask if he’s feeling ok and eating. Maybe sleeping better. I want to say if and when you ever choose to talk, I’d like to apologize. I have so so many regrets. Is it worth saying that or just wait until he comes to me like everyone keeps saying?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

it is my understanding that you already did that a few times. Please, do not start with the apology train over and over with him, most likely that will turn him off, and get him more upset. like I said, you were saying mean stuff to him but, it seems that he was also no giving you the time you need. Give him the space required. When the time comes for a sit-down, then you can re-iterate about how sorry you are for the part of the problem.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Ok much appreciated.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Cromer said:


> I am sorry you're going through this. Please bear with me here, a perspective from someone who did the "long hours, long absences" thing to provide for my family.
> 
> My first marriage was 30 yrs. We were a military family, my wife knew this going in, and the long hours and deployments we would face. But being told about the hardships and saying "I know" and actually trying to make a relationship work when you're living it are two different things.
> 
> ...


lol,
I would never date/marry anyone serving in the military. I'm surprised so many do. Gone 2 years? lol, I'm surprised she stuck around at all.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

The waiting is the worst. I’m so anxious. It comes in waves. I would be soo soo happy if he changes his mind. I would work extra hard to make myself better and I hope he does too


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> I’m just worried that he’s going to decide he’s better off without me. I don’t want to get hurt.


It sounds like he is married to his career/job. 
He needs a wife who likes the title of being married to a surgeon and then spends all her time doing her own thing and hanging out with other wives or friends but doesn't really need much time with the husband.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

That’s pretty much what I did before Covid. I worked around his schedule. I had a life. I have a great job. We both were ok until this happened. It’s the worst position to be in.....especially when you know you are able to change.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> Umm I guess that’s one way to look at it. Prior to that it was once every 1-2weeks. There were pauses sometimes when he was busy and tired I wouldn’t initiate. I was trying harder in April, but after mid May we got more disconnected and the meds? Or something else stopped his libido.


I domt know his mind, but at that point i would have so much reesentment toward my wife. How often did he ever initiat and you shut him down?
Another thing to be aware of....i used to do it was when the wife was complaining about being stressed, tired or headache in the evening was to not initiate and it kept adding up. I then started seeing her complaining and her griping as her way of telling me she was not interrested. It caused me to feel neglected amd turned down when it was not always that at all. It was me taking a complaint she had about her day or something i did as her not wanting to be with me. 
As i said i do not know him, but if it is anything like that with him and he is frustrated as well as being surrounded by nurses who may be trying to flirt awould jump at the chance to catch a surgeon, he could have resentment through the roof.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also I know you guys think I’m a bit of a sad sop....idk what a snowflake is tbh... but from a guys point of view. If I made him his favorite dish and gave it to him on Wed would that be weird? Would that be off putting. I’d tell him i just me want to do a nice gesture and that I know it doesn’t make up for all the things I’ve done wrong....besides he needs his lunch bag anyway.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

So I was initiating in April, and he himself was sometimes exhausted. Slept only a few hours or had deadlines. I always told him there were days I wanted to and he was busy. There were days he wanted to and I wasn’t in the mood. I only said no once in the past 8 months. Prior to that once at his parents house because that’s weird. When I was pregnant. It was actually really uncomfortable to have sex. I still did once a week but I told him it was the pregnancy. Our kid clearly didn’t want his daddy in there. I tried to make a joke out of it so he knew it was the only reason. I told him multiple times. My libido didn’t return until another 13 months of breastfeeding to prepregnancy state.

I then wanted it more but it still was only 1 time per 1-2 weeks. After April he said his libido was dropping. He was depressed. He started ssri’s in late April. My suspicion was it was the meds which can do that, but I was paranoid it was me . I asked and he said he didn’t know either. Maybe it was age. I mean he only just turned 40 so I doubted that


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Sorry this post is long, hope you get some benefit from it. If none applies please disregard.
> I used to work construction and it was 12 hr shifts. Sometimes 7 days a week. Up at 4:30 and work 6a-6p. It sucked but not having a roof over my families head would be worse in my book.
> 
> You want to be home with your wife and child soo much, then your wife starts acting mean spirited against you. She is stressed too but there is nothing you can do, you have to pay the mortgage and bills. So since you catch it at work and now home, you start avoiding it where you can...at home. You are stressed and soo tired from work and now you start building a wall to limit the attacks from the one who is supposed to love and support you. The one who used to make everything better. That wall is resentment and detatching from your spouse so it does not hurt soo bad.
> ...


This is going to extremes. I do not buy it. 
Many keep speaking as if they HAVE to work this one super, complete time absorbing job.....out of the MILLIONS of jobs in the USA this is the one and only job they must do.......or else they'll all be cast into the street homeless and starve to death. Those are the only 2 options. 
Please. 
I get, to a point what you are saying, but I think things are taken to the extremes too much. Work too many hours to have a happy family, get a different job. Can't afford your house? Sell it and get a smaller house. Things aren't as dramatic as they are being framed. 2 options......70 hour work weeks, never see your family, never see your wife, they resent you.....tired all the time. OR starvation, homeless in the streets.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He is super specialized and with Covid it’s hard to find another job for his specialty. I’ve looked . He had originally wanted to look elsewhere and then Covid happened. We were just happy we both had secure jobs.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

You would think he would know people miss him. That it makes sense his wife is angry but to not take it personally. He does take many things so personally though. He’s very sensitive


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I had Low T and started injections at 37.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Anyway I’d just like to know from a mans perspective....what would you think if I made him food on Wednesday. His dad said he’s in a lot of pain and extremely hurt. That he’d been crying a lot since leaving. Idk if I should just keep it simple. Does it send the wrong message?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Ask him to please come for dinner. Dont be critical or nagging but be a safe person je can open up to, even if he has some issues to air. Crying...i bet the stress from work and everything is doing a number on him. Low T can cause a man to be more emotional.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Anyway I’d just like to know from a mans perspective....what would you think if I made him food on Wednesday. His dad said he’s in a lot of pain and extremely hurt. That he’d been crying a lot since leaving. Idk if I should just keep it simple. Does it send the wrong message?


Personally, I think he is making this decision, you need to give him some complete alone time to wrestle with his decision. That means just leave him alone. Do not try to contact him at all. Let him be. 
Try to keep yourself busy for a while, visit with friends, visit with family, go out and explore some of your hobbies or take some up. Get busy, get your mind off of this for a while. 
I think the worst thing you can do, when just blindsided with divorce because you complained about him never being home is to start begging and pleading for another shot. If he brings up divorce, that is serious.....let him fester with that choice for a bit. Just let him be, do not call, text or reach out, just disappear for a bit.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I do no contact at all times except when we have to transition with my son. He gives me daily updates on my son. So you’re saying just leave him be even on Wednesday’s and weekends in person?


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

I would not waste my time on dinner Wednesday. Let that one go.

I was married to an MD in a specialized field. So I know how it is. You’re trained in the special field and if sh*t hits the fan you are screwed. It’s like going from being a 5 star chef to a lunch lady at the Local middle school. Plus their is Pride, Loans, etc.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Crs2918 said:


> Anyway I’d just like to know from a mans perspective....what would you think if I made him food on Wednesday. His dad said he’s in a lot of pain and extremely hurt. That he’d been crying a lot since leaving. Idk if I should just keep it simple. Does it send the wrong message?


I'm interested in knowing why the TAM response will be not to offer dinner. It would seem relatively harmless, to me, to say "I'm having leftovers tonight; there's plenty for you if you'd like." The key here is you're not fixing anything special. It's just food. If he wants company, he'll accept. If he doesn't, no biggie, right?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

It's been only a week since separation. My brother has been harsh and says he's done, which is so horrible. How could someone I always thought was a strong man who would always be there and who loved me leave? How could he not even try to make things better?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> It's been only a week since separation. My brother has been harsh and says he's done, which is so horrible. How could someone I always thought was a strong man who would always be there and who loved me leave? How could he not even try to make things better?


What do you mean your brother is done? Done with your husband, as in he wants nothing to do with your husband ever again?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

No my brother said my husband is done. He thinks it's 100% over.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He's even telling people we're separated. It's so weird now.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Crs2918 said:


> He's even telling people we're separated. It's so weird now.


Your brother is telling people this, or your husband? If your husband, he could be looking for help, someone to talk to about it.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

My husband is telling people we're separated. I just had a mutual friend reach out. It was a bit sad to hear from her.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The good news for you is if he is a Surgeon, once he sees how much it will cost to get rid of you, he will likely be motivated to make it work!


I don't want to dwell on this too much, since I don't want it to evolve into a tangential thread jack. But your comment emphasized two issues to me:
1. It's a horrible reality that the current state of marriage laws is that the fear of financial ruin will force a man like the OP's husband to often stay in an otherwise unfulfilling or demeaning marriage. Your comment appears to underscore that fact.
2. The post-divorce alimony situation that UpsideDown paints also highlights an inherent hypocrisy in the situation-- The OP complained about the lack of time her husband had for her, yet she still enjoyed the financial rewards and social benefits that being married to an academic surgeon brought her. Indeed, should the divorce go forward, then, if as UpsideDown predicts, the OP is awarded an outsized alimony, then in a sense she would be in a somewhat hypocritical position of reaping a financial windfall made possible only the the excessive work hours of her former husband, which she castigated him for, and which was the seed of the divorce in the first place. To add to this, her ex-husband would be caught in a Kafkaesque Catch-22---should the shock of losing his marriage lead him to the realization that he must reduce his workload and aim for a better work/life balance, he likely would be UNABLE to make such changes, because the crushing alimony burden would prevent him from any slowdown that would reduce his income. Indeed, any "voluntary underemployment" typically results in no reduction in the alimony burden, as even with a reduced salary, the judge would typically assign an "imputed income" from which to calculate any alimony obligation, making any hope to reduce his work hours impossible. 

In a separate posting, I will elaborate how I think that the hypocrisy I mentioned in point #2 resulted in the reaction the OP received to her complaints about her husband's working hours.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I don't want to dwell on this too much, since I don't want it to evolve into a tangential thread jack. But your comment emphasized two issues to me:
> 1. It's a horrible reality that the current state of marriage laws is that the fear of financial ruin will force a man like the OP's husband to often stay in an otherwise unfulfilling or demeaning marriage. Your comment appears to underscore that fact.
> 2. The post-divorce alimony situation that UpsideDown paints also highlights an inherent hypocrisy in the situation--
> ............................


Before you go on a band wagon trying to make the OP the poster child for alimony, you might want to take a look at what she actually said. 



Crs2918 said:


> We've been together for 4 years, but married 2.5 years.


She will get at most 1 year of alimony. But because she has a job and can support herself she'll most likely not get any at all. Now she'll likely get child support from him.

I was married to a guy who was an MD for 14 years. I supported him through medical school and residency. Once he joined a practice we divorced because of his infidelity and his emotional and physical abuse. I got ZERO for alimony. I got ZERO for supporting him all those years. You claim that any woman married to an MD will make out like a fat cat is beyond ridiculous. 

Stop the stereo typing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> My husband is telling people we're separated. I just had a mutual friend reach out. It was a bit sad to hear from her.


What did you tell your friend? You need to come up with a pat response to use with people who approach you with this. It's in your best interest to say as little as possible because whatever you say will most likely end up in the gossip mill. It's highly likely that some version of whatever you say will make it's way to your husband.

For example you could say something as simple as "Yes, he's filed for divorce. I'm shocked and trying to deal with it as best as I can."


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> Does anyone think him still _considering_ marriage counseling during separation is a good sign or is it just something to appease me? Also starfire definitely don’t hesitate to be honest. I appreciate honesty.


I think it is a good sign. I think he is waiting to see if you follow through with setting it up.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

hinterdir said:


> lol,
> I would never date/marry anyone serving in the military. I'm surprised so many do. Gone 2 years? lol, I'm surprised she stuck around at all.


I'm glad you found it all funny.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> My husband does love me. He said it everyday and even on the day he filed. He cried and said that’s why this is so hard. He is a surgeon. Listen I know it wasn’t his fault for being late. I know it! I’m so ashamed that I couldn’t just comfort him. Sometimes I did. Just a couple weeks prior i would massage the knots in his back nightly for about a week. He knows that I care and that it was a hard time for me.  I’m hoping he hasn’t given up completely or with time will see that I tried so hard to show him how much I love him...just not in the way he wanted.


OP, I am going to give you my perspective on this. It may help you going forward. It may help you in your interactions with your husband. 

First of all, I am very familiar with the lives of physicians. I work EVERY DAY with doctors and nurses, am intimately involved with their lives and interact with them routinely on a personal level as well. I have physicians in my family. I have a deep knowledge of the work, family and social stressors that affect physicians, and so even though I don't know your husband, I would bet I can understand most of the issues involved.

I am not going to disagree with the issue that you wanted more of your husband's time. You need more time to create more intimacy.
At the same time, the hours he put in were extremely long, and, frankly, except for certain "shift work" specialties like Emergency Room physicians, are all too typical of physicians. And these hours typically come at the expense of the families, for most physicians. It's a reality of life for most doctors, and it has been that way for generations. Furthermore, it is getting worse. Thanks to changes in things like reimbursement, administrative issues, and mandated changes like Electronic Records, doctors are working harder, longer, and for less. Since the reimbursement by payors has been steadily declining, doctors work longer hours seeing more patients to compensate. The physician has more and more administrative paperwork to do, all of which is unpaid, such as appealing insurance denials of patient tests/procedures, filling out forms for patients (such as Family Medical Leave Act--FMLA--for their work, etc.). Electronic Records has changed documentation from straightforward quick dictations of patient visits into unreadable megillahs of auto populated/cut-and-pasted garbage, which provide limited insight into the actual patient encounter, exist just to capture data to satisfy box-checking federal requirements like MIPS, MACRA, and Meaningful Use, yet takes orders of magnitudes longer to generate on the increasingly burdensome computers.

I don't know if you currently or formerly work in medicine yourself, but if you do/did you likely would recognize the truth of these statements. Furthermore, as an academic surgeon, he will have additional time requirements for the duties demanded of that---writing/publishing papers, preparing lectures for trainees, etc. Increasingly, such physicians must do these tasks on their OWN time, as their institutions fill the doctors' days with clinical duties that generate patient revenues, leaving no paid time during the day to accomplish the academic tasks. You seemed to refer to this when you mentioned his "homework" that he had to do.

What all this means is that the time he devotes to his work is largely NOT something he can control without significant sacrifices. He may need to take a different job that paid significantly less because he is seeing fewer patients. He may need to essentially destroy his academic career by no longer devoting the needed time to it. And so on. These would lead to loss of income, profession stature, academic position, or may all of these.

As the wife of a surgeon, you have a number of benefits derived from your husband---significant income, stability, social standing, etc. Are you willing to sacrifice these in order to have more time with your husband? Is HE willing to sacrifice his career in order to have more time with you? These really are the key issues. Because, quite frankly, in my personal interaction with many physician families, I have heard complaints of physicians' spouses over the time demands of the physician careers. Yet, in my own personal experience, very rarely would the spouse (typically a wife) be willing to take a drop in the income, reduction in lifestyle etc. It has always seemed to me to be a demand of wanting to "have their cake and eat it too." Furthermore, your husband feels a responsibility to provide for his family, and frankly, despite all the lip service society pays to the equality of the sexes, for the most part society expects HIM to be the one doing the providing. So if your husband DID cut back resulting in a loss of income or stature, he would be seen negatively by much of your social circle, and he likely would internalize that as well.

So, as I look at your posts, and I see the kinds of things you have said to your husband, I have to side with your husband on this. I think posters like @StarFires are way off base, and @BluesPower are more correct. I think you have been extraordinarily disrespectful and demeaning to your husband (based on what you have posted). 
For example, look at how you describe your interaction with your husband at the start of this thread. You tell him he ought to go move to a different bedroom. That is incredibly insulting and demeaning. I suspect this was not the only such incident, although possibly one of the egregious. But I would tell you that every time you just complain about him not spending enough time, you are in essence telling him he is failing as a husband, and that his soul-draining work hours to provide for you are just not enough.
A more supportive and loving way of telling him you need more of his time is to recognize what he goes through, why he does it, and to acknowledge that is it necessary to have the income, stature and situation you enjoy---and to tell him that you are willing to give all that up to have more time with him. So, if you wanted more of his time, the way to say it is to say, "Honey, it is so important to me that we have more time together that I am willing to live on a reduced income and a simpler lifestyle just to have you with me." That is MUCH more supportive than to say, "If you don't have time for me, then you'd better just go sleep in a different bedroom." The former acknowledges what he does, and also shows that you are willing give up the material and social comforts to have more of him because he is so important to you. He might not be willing to give up those things---after all, that is how he measures his self-worth as a man and a husband and father---but at least he will feel you are on his side rather than against him.

Likewise, your dealings with your mother have been unsupportive of your husband as well. You know how much her behavior hurts him, yet you tolerate it because of the benefits you receive for yourself from her as well as what you receive indirectly from your child's interaction with her. In essence, you have made an unsaid choice that she is more important to you than your husband is. You probably don't realize you have made that choice, and you may even deny that's how it is; but I'm willing to bet that's how it feels to your husband. In my view an action truly supportive of your husband would have been for you to tell your mother, "What you say and how you act to my husband is inappropriate, and it not only hurts him, but it hurts ME by hurting him. If you do not stop that immediately, then neither I nor my child will be able to have any further interaction with you." And follow through if she doesn't change. That would show her that you actually MEAN it; indeed, she has no real motivation to change her ways because there are no consequences for her in being demeaning toward your husband. But giving her an ultimatum like that--and following through--WOULD give consequences to her actions.

Posters like @StarFires are fixated on your neglect, but I think the issue here is that, emotionally, I think YOU have been the one who have been neglecting your husband through lack of support and lack of appreciation of the sacrifices he makes for you and your family. And you may THINK you appreciate it, but demeaning comments like, "go to another bedroom" send him the message that you really don't. That's why I don't think bribes like making him his favorite meal or dramatic gestures like getting down on your knee to propose is going to change things. Instead, he would have to believe that you understand deep down what his situation is like and that he believes he is sacrificing himself to make life better for you and your child. And I mean that you REALLY understand it, that you have internalized it to the point that it is reflected in your actions and your words. That's going to be a difficult task for you to convince him. And sadly, it may be too late; given the type of person your husband it professionally, I am inclined to think that he has thought this through and made a decision that will not be easily changed. I think this may be a "Walk Away Husband", brought about by a type of neglect as well; in this case a neglect of emotional support of a husband who believe he works hard and sacrifices for wife who is thankless and demeaning.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Before you go on a band wagon trying to make the OP the poster child for alimony, you might want to take a look at what she actually said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, you misread my post. I am NOT "making the OP a poster child for alimony." I am responding to UpsideDown's prediction that because the husband is a surgeon, he would likely be motivated to make the marriage work because of the financial consequences. Hence, I am addressing UpsideDown's stereotype, not generating a new one of my own (although I concede his stereotype is likely true, I'm not convinced of his conclusion of the husband's future motivations).

I am also fully aware that the short marriage will likely result in limited alimony. I was going to include that fact, including that I wouldn't actually expect the OP actually to receive any alimony. However, I wanted to use her theoretical example of the inconsistency between enjoying the financial rewards of an overworking spouse while at the same time complaining about the hours that provide those rewards as a bridge to my separate subsequent post directly addressing her situation. I used that concept as a bridge, although I concede I do not anticipate alimony to actually happen in the OP's case

And your own divorce situation notwithstanding, I think it is also important to point out that your situation is NOT typical, and that UpsideDown's prediction, although a stereotype, would be statistically far, far more likely than your situation. Sometimes a stereotype reflects the most commonly expected outcome. We see that all the time when in the "Coping With Infidelity" section when posters diagnose a situation as a "typical cheater script" even when the thread starter is not yet convinced without incontrovertible physical evidence---yet no one tells those calling out "typical cheater script" to "stop stereotyping" because, indeed, in those situations the most common outcome is that infidelity is occurring. Exceptions always exist, but the existence of those exceptions doesn't mean it's not valid to comment on the more likely scenarios.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I think posters like @StarFires are way off base


You're right, I was really off base about him not bothering to try to do anything about his job or long hours. Like military personnel, a doctor/surgeon can't very well be expected to change jobs or professions. It was late in the thread that EleGirl asked and we found out what he does. I should have asked sooner. My responses would have been tailored.

However, I wasn't wrong about her being neglected, and I don't buy into the "hard working man" mantra that has become syndrome in this thread because she was neglected, she felt neglected, and everything I cited as support and proof of wives being neglected remain because it has always been a problem and will continue to be. 

The difference being that, just like the wives of people in the military, wives of doctors/surgeons know what they are getting into. OP knew and had no major problems with it until recent other circumstances permeated. So just like you cataloged his every concern and second of his workday to show her how inconsiderate and neglectful she was for not appreciating a husband who was hard working and never there for her, I think he was inconsiderate and neglectful for not cutting his long-suffering wife who only very recently became overwhelmed some slack. She came down hard on him and said some indisputably unkind things over the course of just a couple or three months. What did he do? He cut bait and ran, effectively abandoning his wife and toddler, and filed for divorce. It's a joke comparing their individual inconsideration and neglect. He wins hands down. His actions were so glaringly severe and excessive that, although I have refrained from mentioning, I can't help thinking he had other reasons.

I understand your empathy for the man and l truly, truly, truly gained some for him too after learning his profession, but I never got past his response being so immature and excessive. There was nothing to stop him from leaving to take a break for a few days or even weeks if he couldn't take her nagging and harshness. That could have provided time to talk or work things out or arrange for counseling. But nope, he wanted permanence. He wanted his marriage over immediately. I wonder why..


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

StarFires said:


> . But nope, he wanted permanence. He wanted his marriage over immediately. I wonder why..


Well, although I stand by my nonsupport post, I am not discounting the possibility he MIGHT be having an affair. No specific reason to think so. Just always a possibility. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Listen I made many mistakes and so did he. It made us pretty resentful. I even told him it’s not his fault that he has to work so much, but couldn’t he just try to be nice and sweet when he got home. I get he was too tired. I get that I was selfish. I know eventually he would have. I truly believe he was unhappy for some time but pulled the trigger after I said to move downstairs on Monday. On Sunday afternoon we had planned our sons’s bedroom changes and a vacation and had a relaxing evening together.

i really hope that he gives me a change toshow him I’m sorry and that I’m working on improving myself. He even said the day he filed. You take the week to think about yourself. Reflect on why we’re here.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Wolf man - is there anything I can do? Anything to make things right?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I fully believe he was only doing what he needed to do and was always helping and working for the family. I do. I just never showed it. I have to also be less childish and less reactive. I said things impulsively without thinking. I have a therapist I just started seeing to help me with that. He knows I’ve done that and I’ve removed my mom from nannying (although a little too late).

how do I show him in actions and words that I truly appreciate him. He is a man who puts a lot of weight on words alone, but everyone says not to say anything. I’m so confused. How can I show him this with such little interaction.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whoa! now we know why he spend so much time working. I am not a Dr.in medicine, but I have worked most of my life in the medical field as a Medical technologist and Clinical Microbiologist and I can tell you that along with the armed forces, police, fire rescue, and first respondents, people in the medical field are subjected to some of the most demanding of their time and life, specially nurses and doctors. It is very hard. I'm with Wolfman 1968 on this. 

As far as OP asking for anything else to make this right: you've already been told: is his decision = the ball is in his court. All you can do is give time time and it will all reveal/unravel. in the meantime be there, be supportive, but also don't give your dignity away trying to get him back.

Also let me reiterate: YOU must verify that there is not someone else. The medical field is one of the worse in respect to affairs due to the high tension, life involvement decisions, very close proximity, and highly charged emotions that bring people together. Please, do not make the mistake like so many do: No, Not him/her ever, that's not possible. Let me tell you is not only possible but highly likely. In not saying he is, but the possibility is always there in this type of situations.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

If you do have a discussion, you have to own your baggage. No “we need to work” or “you need to fix”. Write a simple outline how you’re going to work on your shortcomings.

If your husband is not having an affair, he’s most likely just worn out. His way of thinking, “I provide, I protect, and yet I’m still getting crap from my wife”.

You’re in a catch 22. You are being extra nice to him, and he’s probably questioning it why. He’s getting the wife he wanted only when he took a stand and walked away.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

That’s what I want. I want to talk to him to show him I know what I did wrong and these are things I’m actively working on in therapy to improve. I made a list of things that are my own flaws/faults. I just have to wait and hope he’ll be willing to talk to me. He may not be ready for 1-2 weeks. I’m trying to be positive everytime he comes (Which has been once so far). I try dressing nice so he can see I’m making an effort for him. 

I truly don’t think he’s having an affair. He doesn’t have much time for that tbh.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> I fully believe he was only doing what he needed to do and was always helping and working for the family. I do. I just never showed it. I have to also be less childish and less reactive. I said things impulsively without thinking. I have a therapist I just started seeing to help me with that. He knows I’ve done that and I’ve removed my mom from nannying (although a little too late).
> 
> how do I show him in actions and words that I truly appreciate him. He is a man who puts a lot of weight on words alone, but everyone says not to say anything. I’m so confused. How can I show him this with such little interaction.


Listen, I really understand that you are hurting and scared. Anyone would be. 

I am going to try and help if it will, and I am sure that @StarFires will shoot this down because it deals with the hard working hubby, which is a myth in her mind. 

Your posts, and I know you do not realize it, are selfish, childish, and kind of silly at one level. And again I don't say this to be mean, I am trying to help. I don't know if this is really true in your case but what you write sounds like it.

What I suspect is that your father and mother spoiled you, and you were a princess, and your entire life you were told you were the most wonderful person in the world. Just because you are you. 

But, you are a grown woman with children of your own, and you need to start acting like it. You are married to a man that is a high income earner, highly educated, and on and on. He needs a wife that puts HIM first. 

You probably never have to worry about money, because your HUSBAND IS AN MD. So part of the trade off for that is that he works a lot, and sometimes you don't get the attention you need. OK.

So what are your choices? Divorce him, and find another high income earner that can spend time with you, or BECOME A DIFFERENT PERSON. 

What you can do now is go to therapy and understand what YOUR Problems are and how you got here, and leave him alone, and let him get his head together. 

I hope you understand that this is meant to help you, and maybe help your marriage.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Listen I made many mistakes and so did he. It made us pretty resentful. I even told him it’s not his fault that he has to work so much, but couldn’t he just try to be nice and sweet when he got home. I get he was too tired. I get that I was selfish. I know eventually he would have. I truly believe he was unhappy for some time but *pulled the trigger after I said to move downstairs on Monday*. On Sunday afternoon we had planned our sons’s bedroom changes and a vacation and had a relaxing evening together.
> 
> i really hope that he gives me a change toshow him I’m sorry and that I’m working on improving myself. He even said the day he filed. You take the week to think about yourself. Reflect on why we’re here.



You actually told him to move downstairs, as in move out of the marriage bedroom/bed to a different room?

I'm all for this working out to what makes you both happy. But if this was said to him, it doesn't bode well.

It sounds harsh to say out loud but just meant to reiterate to you that to hear a W say that immediately generates harsh feelings. Harder to combat.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Not to be a Debbie downer but my ex wife (MD), 5 affairs in 8 years. MDs males are super Alpha to some women.

My ex wife’s affairs were affiliated with work and work conferences.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I was married to a guy who was an MD for 14 years. I supported him through medical school and residency. Once he joined a practice we divorced because of his infidelity and his emotional and physical abuse. I got ZERO for alimony. I got ZERO for supporting him all those years. You claim that any woman married to an MD will make out like a fat cat is beyond ridiculous.


Now THAT sucks and amazingly unfair. Just goes to show that courts/legal system are really NOT about justice.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I’m sorry for being childish. I was and honestly I should have been more understanding. I’m a physician too. We used to be equal on income until I went part time for my son. He supported this decision. I don’t even care about alimony. I am secure financially. My hours are standard 8-5. I’m in a field that’s lifestyle friendly. 

Yes I was spoiled so to speak. I had a crappy childhood because my parents fought all the time and I could see myself mimicking my moms patterns which I told myself I would never do.

there are just soooo many mistakes here. Soo many. I will do what you all have said. I will focus on improving my flaws and working on my inner demons. I miss my husband so much. I was always faithful. We made great decisions as a team. We just had a hard time showing and receiving love. I was harsh and demeaning towards the end when I should have been extra supportive. I replay those days over and over again ashamed of myself.

I’m making active steps to make things better. At least concretely.....I found a new care situation for my son (that surprised him) and I’ve had 4 therapy sessions in 1.5 weeks. I’m trying you guys.  

I just hope he sees that.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

also the day after I told him to go downstairs. I apologized and said I never meant that. He said be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. I told him I never ever wanted that and not to move downstairs because he was going to. I said I just keep feeling you’re half out the door so it makes me more paranoid and more anxious. He didn’t deny that. Instead on Tuesday he said he’s committed. I think just to appease me.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@Crs2918,

You’ve asked what it is you can be doing now to increase your chances. I don’t buy the advice you should just sit back, give him space, and wait for his decision.

If I were you, I’d be consuming books by Michelle Weiner-Davis (DivorceBusting), finding a good therapist for yourself by looking on psychologytoday.com and goodtherapy.com and setting up and going to appointments.

Acquaint yourself with the 180 (Michelle Werner-Davis), and the potential for unintended consequences of too much pursuit. But, maybe there is a time and place to put all your cards on the table, be vulnerable and own your part, and give him some reason to believe your eyes are newly opened, you are seeking to understand you both and to have empathy for him, and your mind is aggressively seeking inward change.

Another relationship, either existing already or budding in his new circumstances, would be problematic. If it were me, I’d want to get to MC as soon as possible and try to find a way to assess and establish limits on involving others at this point.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Cromer said:


> I'm glad you found it all funny.


I did not.
Like I clearly said...I do not know why anyone would marry into that.
You literally sign up for an LDR.
I am surprised anyone dates and marries military people and that any of rhe marriages last.
Actually being together is actually important.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Here’s my plan for tomorrow. One to keep things together and hopefully not push him away.
I'll just smile. Ask how the past few days went. Tell him thanks for doing such an great job with with our son. I appreciate it. I'll ask how he's doing. Give him his favorite lunch box with a bar and candy inside. (I’m sure he could use his lunch box. Idk how he’s eating tbh). Then tell him I'll send him intro photos from the first day in daycare.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Here’s my plan for tomorrow. One to keep things together and hopefully not push him away.
> I'll just smile. Ask how the past few days went. Tell him thanks for doing such an great job with with our son. I appreciate it. I'll ask how he's doing. Give him his favorite lunch box with a bar and candy inside. (I’m sure he could use his lunch box. Idk how he’s eating tbh). Then tell him I'll send him intro photos from the first day in daycare.


This sounds reasonable, not too pushy and in general. Esp the part about how he is doing with your son, praise it always a good thing. 

Just keep reading, learning, and going to therapy. 

Further, just remember, not to scare you, but you seem to be OUT OF CHANCES with him. So if you have a chance at all you have to be consistent and you have to change YOU. I really hope you can do that... 

Good luck...


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know I’m out of chances. He did some horrible things himself and I always gave him chances. When you love someone, I feel like you always believe they can do better......idk I think he just snapped with everything going on and needed to step away from it all to get perspective on life.  I just hope he’d prefer to have me in it than not 

My husband loves cards. He saves all the cards he gets from anyone forever. They mean a lot to him. Is it too soon to give him cards saying sorry? It’s something I’d like to do in the future. Regular love notes and cards, which for him mean a lot. His love language is clearly words. Which he didn’t hear a lot from me when he needed them.

I want to make myself better with everything I have. In general, in life it’s important to do that I know.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I don't think it would be any problem for you to give him a card to explain that you are sorry, especially since you know that he relates well to that. Just don't expect miracles from a card or two.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> Now THAT sucks and amazingly unfair. Just goes to show that courts/legal system are really NOT about justice.


Well, I do not believe in alimony.
I think that is just.
2 free adults responsible for themselves not 1 adult paying another to live.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Crs2918,

I would encourage you to NOT send or give him a card right now, and here's why: at this point, I believe your husband has filed because he lost hope. He's heard it all before and yet nothing ever changed. He's heard promises. He's heard complaints. He's heard...heard...heard until the cows come home, and he hoped it would be better and then you said "you might as well move to the other bedroom" and he gave up. So sending a card right now would just be more empty words that have no backing. 

If it were me, I would be silent and let your ACTIONS do the talking. Namely, don't "tell him" you're going to be more grateful--just live it and do it. Don't promise that you're going to change--just LIVE AND BE DIFFERENT. Continue with the therapy/counseling and do the hard work of figuring out why were do not feel gratitude. Do the hard work of figuring out where you are messed up and practice changing your behavior. Words mean very little when someone has given up and has no hope, but consistent ACTIONS could make a difference. If he sees you BEING A NEW PERSON he may notice that and like it. 

So no more "should I get down on one knee?" "should I make him his favorite meal?" "should I send him a card saying I'm sorry?"... Stop grasping at straws. Start changing your inner being. Start developing recognition, thankfulness, appreciation...and for your own self, learn how to soothe yourself and be okay with just yourself. You are good company! Learn to love your own self enough to be with yourself.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> I know I’m out of chances. He did some horrible things himself and I always gave him chances. When you love someone, I feel like you always believe they can do better......idk I think he just snapped with everything going on and needed to step away from it all to get perspective on life.  I just hope he’d prefer to have me in it than not
> 
> My husband loves cards. He saves all the cards he gets from anyone forever. They mean a lot to him. Is it too soon to give him cards saying sorry? It’s something I’d like to do in the future. Regular love notes and cards, which for him mean a lot. His love language is clearly words. Which he didn’t hear a lot from me when he needed them.
> 
> I want to make myself better with everything I have. In general, in life it’s important to do that I know.


Look, I think in some ways you get it for a second and then you write something like this....



> He did some horrible things himself and I always gave him chances.


See THIS IS CHILDISH and defensive... it is like "Well he is not perfect either", or "Nany nany boo boo, you did this" or however you want to put it. 

Look, no one is saying that he is perfect, nobody... I am sure not. But here is the deal, Right now he is done, and he has at least some level of reason to feel that way, you have said and done some horrible stuff to him, he is tired of it. 

So you have a choice, you can change, lose the defensiveness, loose the attitude, and show him that HE means more to you than you mean to yourself. 

This statement in your post JUST SHOWS that you don't get it. Either, you learn quick or I think your marriage may be done.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> I know I’m out of chances. He did some horrible things himself and I always gave him chances. When you love someone, I feel like you always believe they can do better......idk I think he just snapped with everything going on and needed to step away from it all to get perspective on life.  I just hope he’d prefer to have me in it than not
> 
> My husband loves cards. He saves all the cards he gets from anyone forever. They mean a lot to him. Is it too soon to give him cards saying sorry? It’s something I’d like to do in the future. Regular love notes and cards, which for him mean a lot. His love language is clearly words. Which he didn’t hear a lot from me when he needed them.
> 
> I want to make myself better with everything I have. In general, in life it’s important to do that I know.


I've read your thread, @Crs2918 and I wonder too if there's something else going on with your H. From what you've described, his decision to immediately seek divorce seems extreme given the circumstances. Whether he's burnt out from work, depressed, or having an affair, it doesn't change your situation. As others have advised, working on yourself is the best course right now. I think it's fine to send an apology card as long as you keep it simple but have no expectations that it will change anything. Then give him space and do not contact him again unless it has to do with your son or practical issues that require his imput. You've apologized many times now and are taking steps to change yourself for the better. No one is perfect, it sounds like he's got his own issues. You need to summon up courage now and your pride. You are still young, you have a successful career as well, and if he goes through with the divorce then you move on. Even if you get back together, unless there is serious work on both sides, there will always be the threat that if you get irritated or upset and say something then he will leave again. You'll be walking on eggshells all the time.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

It’s not that. I do get it. I can only focus on myself. I am just grasping at straws and hope he reconsiders. All I want is something to give me hope. I get that it’s not about what he did. I get he’s out and that’s it. What he did doesn’t matter. He left because of what I did and how I behaved. I’m sorry you guys. I know there’s nothing I can do at this point but focus on me.

Also it is very sudden. I do believe the stress and exhaustion and tension from the past 2 weeks made him snap. He’s also depressed. He couldn’t handle it anymore. He gave up. I don’t believe he’s cheating at all. He also said I need to reflect on this for the next week when he told me. He also said absence makes the heart grow fonder. I believe he’s still deciding what he wants. In his mind he has 6 months to figure it out. He said twice absence makes the heart grow fonder. I just have to hope it truly does 

I’m going to stop pointing fingers and let go of the past.
I’m going to focus on me and write those cards for myself. Maybe one day he’ll get them.
Maybe never. I’ll be positive and nice every time and give him all the space he needs.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> I’m sorry for being childish. I was and honestly I should have been more understanding. I’m a physician too. We used to be equal on income until I went part time for my son. He supported this decision. I don’t even care about alimony. I am secure financially. My hours are standard 8-5. I’m in a field that’s lifestyle friendly.
> 
> Yes I was spoiled so to speak. I had a crappy childhood because my parents fought all the time and I could see myself mimicking my moms patterns which I told myself I would never do.
> 
> ...


You are doing what you can. Keep it up, you are doing well.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you! It’s been a little over a week and I fluctuate with anxiety panic and then I feel calm. I’m always looking for anything that can give me hope .
I should just keep my mind busy as you all have said and focus on my own self improvement.
I do appreciate everyone’s input both positive and negative. It makes me feel I have some direction and guidance when i feel so lost .
You all make me feel so much calmer regardless of whether you’re saying I’m an idiot or giving me support!


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Affaircare said:


> @Crs2918,
> 
> I would encourage you to NOT send or give him a card right now, and here's why: at this point, I believe your husband has filed because he lost hope. He's heard it all before and yet nothing ever changed. He's heard promises. He's heard complaints. He's heard...heard...heard until the cows come home, and he hoped it would be better and then you said "you might as well move to the other bedroom" and he gave up. So sending a card right now would just be more empty words that have no backing.
> 
> ...


This x 1000!!! Excellent advice. Talk is cheap. Your only hope is true change that he may notice. That is my plan...no more begging and pleading. I'm taking steps to become a better person and I'm doing it for ME. If my STBX notices, even better. You didn't beg him to marry you, so don't beg him to stay married.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Instead on Tuesday he said he’s committed. I think just to appease me.


You spoke of other times that he misled you like this. It wasn't to appease. It was to deceive. The various things he said, telling you every day that he loves you, making future plans, etc. I don't remember all the specific things you told us over these 9 pages. I only know they amount to you being duped. And to tell you "You might get what you ask for" was his smartazz way of telling you his plan knowing full well it revealed nothing because his deliberate and premeditaed decision was to shock you. He WANTED to hurt you as badly as he possibly could. It was unkind, superior, and condescending, and you need to accept that your husband had his reasons. You need to start looking into his reasons, instead of saying ridiculous things like he doesn't have time to cheat. You can't know that. You're thinking things and saying things and deciding everything in his favor because you're hurt and scared and desperate. 

And you keep on blaming yourself for everything instead of recognizing how malicious he has been to you. You do acknowledge other things he's done or said in terms of you both having made mistakes, but you're not recognizing he's been nothing but cruel surrounding his decision to end the marriage. Even to keep on telling you "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is heartless - downright ruthless because he doesn't mean it for himself. He means it for you to "F" your mind up. You keep talking about him being so sensitive, but he's not. He's malicious and calculating, and he's been that way all the long. "I love you" every day was saying "I screwed a nurse in the supply closet this morning, but hey I love you." You're not getting all his veiled remarks or the true disguised meaning behind them. You just keep listening to all the "hard working man" brigade making you feel guiltier than the ton of bricks you already buried yourself under.

Working on yourself, improving yourself, becoming a better person are not for him. They are for you, so stop trying to impress him with all your effort. Stop thinking that any amount of exhaustive endeavor toward improving yourself will mean anything because it won't. What you wear doesn't matter because you can't get pretty enough to lure him back. He will recognize your intentions and know the effect of his spiteful plan to make you suffer as much as possible is working. So don't say anything at all to him tomorrow short of "Hello." Just be cordial if he engages you, but don't try to engage him. Don't try to nice your way into his good graces because he doesn't have any. He only has disdain and ill will for your mental and emotional state. If you fell into a lump of suffering sorrow, he would be happy.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

hinterdir said:


> Well, I do not believe in alimony.
> I think that is just.
> 2 free adults responsible for themselves not 1 adult paying another to live.


I'm not talking about Alimony so that the other doesn't have to work.
The fact that SHE paid for his education and supported him while HE couldn't help financially -- and then SHE got screwed out of being repaid for that. So, no alimony, but I think a fair judgement would have been that he had to repay a bunch of that.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

blahfridge said:


> Even if you get back together, unless there is serious work on both sides, there will always be the threat that if you get irritated or upset and say something then he will leave again. You'll be walking on eggshells all the time.


This makes so much sense and is exactly what will happen. And it won't matter how much work you put into yourself or the marriage, you will be too afraid to breathe normally for the rest of your days.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Oh man. Maybe he was being deceptive? I thought it was just for the past 1 week but I think it started 2-3 weeks ago after my mom came out like a crazy person and lashed out at him. He asked where I had put his love notes a few days later and then asked how much they had contributed to helping out with a car we bought a couple years ago. I thought that was weird. I think that’s when he started thinking about leaving. He made up his mind on the day I yelled at him about moving to the other room because that’s listed as the day of separation.... when I asked him how long he’d been planning it he said just this week.
That’s definitely not the man I knew. He is not a cheater...unless this is a midlife crisis thing. Idk why would he cry so much if he was trying to deliberately hurt me. How does me having hope serve him in anyway? Wouldn’t it be better to say no and let me move on? 

it doesn’t sound like him. If we did get back together we’d have to do therapy for at least a year to keep rebuilding trust and communication. Maybe that’s not worth it to him. Idk I’m so confused 

all I know is I miss the man I love.
I see him tomorrow. Will be cordial. Will keep you guys updated.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He took the love notes btw.  I only have a few. That speaks of an angry man to me.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Maybe this is hopeless . Maybe he was deliberately planning and ready to leave. He had zero apartment or baby proofing or day care set up. it makes no sense. Once he left he scrambled to set things up at his cousins place. Makes no sense if planning for so long. I think he thought that one of us would be pulling the trigger and he has to be ready. My mom is nuts and kept saying things like leave him or just plain crazy things. He may have heard her idk.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> He took the love notes btw.  I only have a few. That speaks of an angry man to me.


How so? I think you are letting your mind run away from you. 

Look, if you want to have any chance, then you need to stay the course. 

Didn't you say that he was crying as well? Does that sound like her DOES NOT LOVE YOU. 

You have to get YOU together or you don't have any chance.

How could you let your mother act that way? Were you not there?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I was there. I told her to go back in her room and stop. I got so mad at her and told her to leave. She is nuts and can’t be stopped. That’s why regardless of outcome I can’t keep letting the things she does go. She has to keep her distance. She has always done that with me and all my friendships but I never realized it till now


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> Not to be a Debbie downer but my ex wife (MD), 5 affairs in 8 years. MDs males are super Alpha to some women.
> 
> My ex wife’s affairs were affiliated with work and work conferences.


It was the same with my MD husband... as well as several others who worked with him.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> The fact that SHE paid for his education and supported him while HE couldn't help financially.


hahahahaha Laughing at myself so hard to realize how the mind plays tricks on us. I so hated reading this when you told us about all that you have done for him and found it so hard to accept that I pushed it away. Because I didn't want to judge you, I threw it completely out of my mind.

But here it is again.
And explains so very, very much.

Your husband has been an imposter the whole while. He milked you for all he could get. He doesn't need you anymore, doesn't need your money anymore, so the moment you became an annoyance - even in the slightest, even for a VERY short period of time - he booked. Just up and left.

I was sooooo uncomfortable with you telling us his reaction to the pregnancy. I mean, "How the hell selfish and barbaric can a man be?" is how I felt. It niggled the back of my mind so much, but I wasn't able to put it together because, remember, I'd totally forgotten about this disquieting information.

Girl, your husband never wanted that kind of attachment because he didn't plan to have to stick around. He knew he was going to get out and, although he accepted and fell in love with his son after he was born, as does happen with men sometimes, this is the reason he dealt with the news so deplorably.

Cold. Calculating. Snake. User. SOB.
That's who you are married to.
That's who you want to come back home so desperately.

I honestly don't know why you felt you had to jump through hoops to get and keep a man or why you continue with the hoops to get him back. But I sure do hope you see why you HAVE to work on yourself in counseling. I'm still trying very hard not to judge you. I know how judgmental I can be with women. So I don't want you to take what I'm saying the wrong way because I mean this from my heart. I just want you to get the help you need.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> How so? I think you are letting your mind run away from you.


why would he write these incredibly sweet intense loving notes a month ago. Get mad nothing is making a big impact on our marriage and then take them away. I think he’s angry. Very very angry about everything. My mom and me and nothing getting better despite him “trying his best”.

I think you’re right bluespower. I will stay the course.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jlg07 said:


> I'm not talking about Alimony so that the other doesn't have to work.
> The fact that SHE paid for his education and supported him while HE couldn't help financially -- and then SHE got screwed out of being repaid for that. So, no alimony, but I think a fair judgement would have been that he had to repay a bunch of that.


I learn something very important from this experience and pass it along to people when I get a chance. I paid dearly for the lesson. No one should ever support their spouse financially through their education. Instead the spouse should take out student loans to pay the tuition, books, etc. and their own living expenses. That way if they end up divorced, the student loans are sole debt.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> I learn something very important from this experience and pass it along to people when I get a chance. I paid dearly for the lesson. No one should ever support their spouse financially through their education. Instead the spouse should take out student loans to pay the tuition, books, etc. and their own living expenses. That way if they end up divorced, the student loans are sole debt.


Another good option is finding someone who is at about the same place in life, where your assets/debts are about the same.

Who Is Responsible for a Student Loan in Case of Divorce?


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

By the way, I think you mentioned that you are an MD and he is a surgeon. That should amount to an upper 6-figure income. Spend some of that money!!! In particular, have cleaners come in (at least) once per week. Get good child care that isn't your mother. Some strategic planning to reduce stress on both sides would be very valuable. You are in a good position to remove stresses that many folks wouldn't be able to afford. Use that position (it will be much cheaper than a divorce).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> Here’s my plan for tomorrow. One to keep things together and hopefully not push him away.
> I'll just smile. Ask how the past few days went. Tell him thanks for doing such an great job with with our son. I appreciate it. I'll ask how he's doing. Give him his favorite lunch box with a bar and candy inside. (I’m sure he could use his lunch box. Idk how he’s eating tbh). Then tell him I'll send him intro photos from the first day in daycare.


My take on this is to just say hello, at most ask him how he's doing. 

Don't give him his lunch box. He did not ask for it. Putting candy in the lunch box is treating him like a child. Apparently he does not need it.

Don't thank him for doing such a great job with your son. It's his responsibility to do a great job. He's not doing it for you.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

We were reluctant to do daycare because of Covid, and finding a nanny was proving to be a challenge. But I had only looked for 2 weeks. I mentioned a house cleaner 3-4 weeks prior and he said I don’t mind my tasks. We don’t need to do that just yet I don’t think :/.

we do have the power to reduce stressors. I think he thought he was trying so hard. He said once I know you think I’m a failure and I said no I don’t at all. I also told his dad we could reduce stress with a house cleaner. So he knows that option is out there. He knows my kid is going to daycare now which he hasn’t been able to arrange. He was suprised and didn’t seem to believe that I already had.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Also he said how are you going to get a nanny? Isn’t your mom your best friend...super weird comment that came after she did that. I told him no why would you say something so weird. He’s like how would you handle her not being here, she’s like your best friend. I think that’s when he started lumping us as two crazies together.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> Also he said how are you going to get a nanny? Isn’t your mom your best friend...super weird comment that came after she did that. I told him no why would you say something so weird. He’s like how would you handle her not being here, she’s like your best friend. I think that’s when he started lumping us as two crazies together.


Yes, I think that is party of the irrationality that I mentioned early. He seems to have a lot of things jumbled up in his head and he seems angry. You can help him to fix all that.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Question: my previous post seems to have been deleted. I'm not sure why. Please let me know if I violated any rules so that I can avoid those violations in the future. Thanks!


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Which post? I didn’t delete anything.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> Question: my previous post seems to have been deleted. I'm not sure why. Please let me know if I violated any rules so that I can avoid those violations in the future. Thanks!


honestly that’s weird because you’re a very positive encouraging person. I have no clue why it would be deleted.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> Which post? I didn’t delete anything.


Hi Csr. No, you wouldn't be able to delete posts. 

Either it was a fluke/bug or the Administrator didn't like my post. You liked it. So, I think you read it (my advice for dealing with your husband).


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Also he said how are you going to get a nanny? Isn’t your mom your best friend...super weird comment that came after she did that. I told him no why would you say something so weird. He’s like how would you handle her not being here, she’s like your best friend. I think that’s when he started lumping us as two crazies together.


He wasn't saying something weird. He was being sarcastic.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Galabar01 said:


> Another good option is finding someone who is at about the same place in life, where your assets/debts are about the same.
> 
> Who Is Responsible for a Student Loan in Case of Divorce?


It depends on some things. Federal student loans are only the responsibility of the student who signed them.

Private student loans very often require the spouse to co-sign.

My divorce was in NM, a community property state. I've worked on divorces in California, Maryland and other states and in every one of them the person who got the education was held solely responsible for the student debt. 

As always a person should consult with an attorney before making major financial decisions.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Galabar01 said:


> Another good option is finding someone who is at about the same place in life, where your assets/debts are about the same.


In my case I did. We both had our MSs in engineering. Then after we were married for a couple of years he decided unilaterally to go to medical school.

However, this thread is not about me. This is turning into a thread jack.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> He did some horrible things himself and I always gave him chances.





Crs2918 said:


> I get that it’s not about what he did. I get he’s out and that’s it.


I agree for the most part that his actions are not the issue right now. However, due to your choice of words I'm wondering what the 'horrible things' are that he did. Depending on what they are, it could change how you should be handling this.

What are two or three of the most 'horrible things' that he did?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

StarFires said:


> hahahahaha Laughing at myself so hard to realize how the mind plays tricks on us. I so hated reading this when you told us about all that you have done for him and found it so hard to accept that I pushed it away. Because I didn't want to judge you, I threw it completely out of my mind.
> 
> But here it is again.
> And explains so very, very much.
> ...




I think there is confusion here between @EleGirl’s ex and @Crs2918’s husband, and it is being used improperly to support judgements about @Crs2918’s husband.

The quote @StarFires seems to be reacting to above is from a side-discussion about alimony and how @EleGirl got screwed after putting her XH through med school.

I don’t recall @Crs2918 saying she put her own husband through med school. Maybe I missed it.


In any case, a fuller excerpt of the side-discussion about alimony paid or not paid (past tense) is here:

“I'm not talking about Alimony so that the other doesn't have to work.
The fact that SHE paid for his education and supported him while HE couldn't help financially -- and then SHE got screwed out of being repaid for that. So, no alimony, but I think a fair judgement would have been that he had to repay a bunch of that.”


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> I'm not talking about Alimony so that the other doesn't have to work.
> The fact that SHE paid for his education and supported him while HE couldn't help financially -- and then SHE got screwed out of being repaid for that. So, no alimony, but I think a fair judgement would have been that he had to repay a bunch of that.


Nope. 
If she wants to be paid like a doctor....go be a doctor. 
Marriage ends....their access to each other's incomes ends.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> He worked 13+ hours and as an academic had homework. Never ending homework. I understood this but wanted something...just some time with me. He thought he was but I never guided him on how to do it. He never told me what he was going to do. He kept saying it’s hard to predict. I’m looking into other jobs but who knows. I could see him doing this forever. Despite it being hard on his body.


This post is confusing.

You say that he had homework because he is/was an academic. What do you mean by homework? Was he a student?

Just trying to understand....


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

hinterdir said:


> Nope.
> If she wants to be paid like a doctor....go be a doctor.
> Marriage ends....their access to each other's incomes ends.


This has nothing to do with this thread, the OP, and her husband — does it?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I’d rather not talk about what he did. I already forgave him. You’re going to think badly of him and then I’ll have to explain why I think it happened.
I’m trying to move forward. Self reflection and only think positive. I’ll go over all the past hurts that brought me here (built up resentment) with a marriage counselor we ever even get there making a point to say ...I’m over it.

As for homework - basically what wolf man said. Research, paper reviews, resident guidance, always behind on chart notes, emails (you get a ton as an academic)

on a positive note, I got another update from him on my son. Seems like a nice gesture.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Csr,

I think you are taking the correct approach. Don't let folks install hate for your husband inside you. Do your best to fix this and then you can work on your problems together.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

also yes I never paid for his schooling. i don’t care about alimony. I’m financially secure. so yes 2 separate conversation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> I’d rather not talk about what he did. I already forgave him. You’re going to think badly of him and then I’ll have to explain why I think it happened.
> 
> I’m trying to move forward. Self reflection and only think positive. I’ll go over all the past hurts that brought me here (built up resentment) with a marriage counselor we ever even get there making a point to say ...I’m over it.


I asked for examples of the 'horrible things' he has done because it was unclear if your use of that term was just silly hyperbole. Apparently it's not. Apparently he has done 'horrible things'. With that, the only reasonable stance to take when a spouse has done 'horrible' things is to advise them to accept that he's divorcing you, work on yourself, and move on with your life.

You say that you are in individual counseling. You would be well served to tell that counselor about these 'horrible things' to get perspective on them and how they impact what you are going through now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> why would he write these incredibly sweet intense loving notes a month ago. Get mad nothing is making a big impact on our marriage and then take them away. I think he’s angry. Very very angry about everything. My mom and me and nothing getting better despite him “trying his best”.
> 
> I think you’re right bluespower. I will stay the course.


Most likely, he took them back because his lawyer told him to. There is something in them that he's concerned about.

Does he make any claims in the divorce filing to support his reason for divorce?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

No just irreconcilable differences. He’s saying we’re incompatible....

you think love letters would work against him? We’re in a no fault state. Per my lawyer whether he wants counseling or not or had nice letters a month ago or not should not delay divorce.

Also I firmly believe people can work through marital problems. I don’t think they have to divorce for past mistakes. My friends have said some horrible things to their spouses and vice versa. They made it through ok.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

PieceOfSky said:


> I think there is confusion here between @EleGirl’s ex and @Crs2918’s husband, and it is being used improperly to support judgements about @Crs2918’s husband.
> 
> The quote @StarFires seems to be reacting to above is from a side-discussion about alimony and how @EleGirl got screwed after putting her XH through med school.
> 
> ...


I got lost in there somewhere, huh? Sorry about that. I think I confused it with much earlier posts by OP. In one of them saying she'd done things for him that most people would judge her for. In the other, she enumerated the things she'd done. I only glossed over both posts because I found them hard to read and then threw them out of my mind. So, I guess I thought jlg was talking about her since I hadn't read EleGirls's post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crs2918 said:


> No just irreconcilable differences. He’s saying we’re incompatible....
> 
> you think love letters would work against him? We’re in a no fault state. Per my lawyer whether he wants counseling or not or had nice letters a month ago or not should not delay divorce.


Delaying the divorce is not what I was talking about.
No fault divorce means that a person does not have to prove fault to get a divorce. In the 'old days' for example a person had to prove that their spouse cheated, or was violent. If they could not prove it, then they could not get a divorce.

However, even in a no fault state, to include yours, there are things that can be considered when it comes to splitting assets, calculating spousal support, etc. For example one of my sisters found receipts for thousands of dollars that her husband spent on his affair partner. It's called wasting marital assets. She was awarded the amount he spent on his affair out of is half of marital assets. 

That said, either your husband just wanted to take back what he said in those letters or he had good reason to take them back probably related to the divorce. You may never know.



Crs2918 said:


> Also I firmly believe people can work through marital problems. I don’t think they have to divorce for past mistakes. My friends have said some horrible things to their spouses and vice versa. They made it through ok.


I agree. Apparently your husband does not, at least not at this time.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

hinterdir said:


> Nope.
> If she wants to be paid like a doctor....go be a doctor.
> Marriage ends....their access to each other's incomes ends.


I didn't say be paid like a Dr. I said REPAID for the debt that SHE incurred while putting HIM through med school. BIG difference.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PieceOfSky said:


> I think there is confusion here between @EleGirl’s ex and @Crs2918’s husband, and it is being used improperly to support judgements about @Crs2918’s husband.
> 
> The quote @StarFires seems to be reacting to above is from a side-discussion about alimony and how @EleGirl got screwed after putting her XH through med school.
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct -- my quote was in reference to @EleGirl. Sorry for any confusion (I DID quote her though, so...)


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Cromer said:


> You don't understand the pressure of being a provider. So what is your story?


Yes being a provider is one thing but is that all a husband is supposed to be? There has to be balance. Many wives work too, take care of 90% of household/kids/schooling, etc too but they have to get on with it. Emotional neglect is a marriage killer (esp for the wife). 
I used to get that story line from my husband, who worked overseas a lot but he had time to go play golf and drink with his buddies on his return, so to me its about priorities.
You spend time on the priorities in your life. Most women don't need bankers they need husbands who are full engaged in family life and the marriage. I say most cause some just need the bling bling and don't care about a relationship with the husband.
My H said he didn't like to be considered as only a provider, well duh, don't act like that is your only role in this marriage and family. I gave him lots of leeway, now I do my own thing. We get on well because I will never invest all of myself in him or the marriage, the way I did before. In my list of priorities, I am top of the list and I learnt that the hard way. 
In the OP's case there is definitely more going on, I suspect there is another woman and he is using work pressure and her nagging as an excuse to flee.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> Does anyone think I should approach him again to apologize this Wednesday? I want to ask if he’s feeling ok and eating. Maybe sleeping better. I want to say if and when you ever choose to talk, I’d like to apologize. I have so so many regrets. Is it worth saying that or just wait until he comes to me like everyone keeps saying?


Leave him be and take him at his word, stop pushing. You sound very very insecure. You need to get a life apart from your STBXH and become a complete person first


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> why would he write these incredibly sweet intense loving notes a month ago. Get mad nothing is making a big impact on our marriage and then take them away. I think he’s angry. Very very angry about everything. My mom and me and nothing getting better despite him “trying his best”.
> 
> I think you’re right bluespower. I will stay the course.


Maybe he is a vulnerable narcissist (many doctors are!)


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I'm insecure because my husband who i love left me. I don't think that's weird. I'm losing someone I thought I'd grow old with. I just don't want that to happen, but i do know it's not up to me. I have plenty of other great things going for me like my son and a good job. 
Also my husband has always had the tendency to flee situations when they get tough. I asked him and he said absolutely no one else and his family has verified. I don't believe there is anyone else.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Plus it's only been 1.5 weeks. I think i'm getting a bit better since he left.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> Plus it's only been 1.5 weeks. I think i'm getting a bit better since he left.


Csr,

If you follow some of the passive-aggressive/man-hating advice on this thread, you aren't going to get your husband back. Take what you need from this thread and leave the rest.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I think men and women are wired differently. Very clear based on the opinions on here. Makes sense why partners don’t always understand each other and fight over things. We just see things very differently. I still appreciate the advice. Thank you all! I’m learning a lot  

It’s also very nice of you to give me advice at such a difficult time. You guys are awesome!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Galabar01 said:


> Csr,
> 
> If you follow some of the passive-aggressive/man-hating advice on this thread, you aren't going to get your husband back. Take what you need from this thread and leave the rest.


Your previous post was deleted because you took the opportunity to attack the women posting on this thread. It is against forum rules to attack other posters.

No one here is trying to get her to hate her husband. No one here is man-hating.

Surely you can state your point of view whiteout attacking others.

This is a warning.

{Speaking as a moderator/admin}


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

I would say that the vitriol against your husband has been over the top. Again, don't let these comments ruin your marriage. I disagree firmly with the quotes below.



She'sStillGotIt said:


> So...you're desperate to hold onto a marriage that was deeply *unsatisfying* for you because your husband had no interest in any type of romance with you and you constantly felt lonely and alone.





StarFires said:


> In fact, him filing for divorce only shows and proves how neglectful, selfish, and inconsiderate he is.





StarFires said:


> I'm going to leave you alone but not without lastly saying that if he changes his mind and the two of you get back together, he will have accomplished his goal of creating the perfect stepford wife....exactly what every man wants, isn't it?





aine said:


> @Crs2918'
> The reality is your H is not marriage material.
> ...
> I believe that he has something else up his sleeve.
> ...





hinterdir said:


> It sounds like he is married to his career/job.
> He needs a wife who likes the title of being married to a surgeon and then spends all her time doing her own thing and hanging out with other wives or friends but doesn't really need much time with the husband.





StarFires said:


> Your husband has been an imposter the whole while. He milked you for all he could get. He doesn't need you anymore, doesn't need your money anymore, so the moment you became an annoyance - even in the slightest, even for a VERY short period of time - he booked. Just up and left.
> ...
> Girl, your husband never wanted that kind of attachment because he didn't plan to have to stick around. He knew he was going to get out and, although he accepted and fell in love with his son after he was born, as does happen with men sometimes, this is the reason he dealt with the news so deplorably.
> ...
> ...


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> Your previous post was deleted because you took the opportunity to attack the women posting on this thread. It is against forum rules to attack other posters.
> 
> No one here is trying to get her to hate her husband. No one here is man-hating.
> 
> ...


EleGirl,

To be specific, are you talking about the quoted post or the post that was deleted (the quoted post seems to still be there)?

On a side note, I think the following quote is man-hating:



StarFires said:


> perfect stepford wife....exactly what *every man* wants, isn't it?


Would it be possible to have this one deleted?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Galabar01 said:


> EleGirl,
> 
> To be specific, are you talking about the quoted post or the post that was deleted (the quoted post seems to still be there)?


Both.



Galabar01 said:


> On a side note, I think the following quote is man-hating:


Yes, I agree that the remark is over the top and unacceptable. They way to handle a post that you find objectional is to report it and a moderator will take a look at it and take the necessary a action.



Galabar01 said:


> Would it be possible to have this one deleted?


The moderator team is working on the issue. Its much bigger than one post.

Moderators do not read every post on the the forum. We are all volunteers with no set schedule on the site. We do not read every post. I have not read every post on this thread. We rely heavily on posters reporting posts that they feel break forum rules or are otherwise an issue. Please feel free to report any post that you believe is a problem.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> Both.
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree that the remark is over the top and unacceptable. They way to handle a post that you find objectional is to report it and a moderator will take a look at it and take the necessary a action.
> ...


From the posts I've shown, would you agree with my original conclusion that there are both (a) people on this thread that are writing hateful comments about the husband and (b) man-hating comments?

Also, I felt that you were fairly deeply engaged in this thread. Did someone report my posts (that were deleted) or did you simply read them and delete them directly? I ask because I want to feel like everyone is given equal treatment in this forum regardless of sex. However, none of the anti-male posts were flagged or removed.

Also please note that I never attacked women, rather I attacked a brand of radical feminism that seems to be in fashion nowadays.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Keep doing weekly therapy. You need the strength to get through this tough time. It will help you gain some balance... no matter the outcome.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Galabar01 said:


> I would say that the vitriol against your husband has been over the top. Again, don't let these comments ruin your marriage. I disagree firmly with the quotes below.


@Galabar01 what marriage exactly? These comments have not ruined the marriage, it is already ruined due to his neglect and her anger. He has filed for divorce, has been explicit he wants out, she is chasing after him, which is no way to go, even if she wanted to 'save the marriage'. What do you mean by 'vitriol' exactly. Any man who neglects his wife (regardless of his long working hrs) can still sit down for 5-10 mins and talk it out with his wife, not simply leave and file. 
The OP needs to build her self esteem and stop taking full responsibility for this scenario. Would you have her not see how he is in the wrong also? Yes maybe she ran after him to get him to realize that with all his neglect and priority on working that their marriage was sinking fast, yet you want her to take all of the responsibility and try and save something that he doesn't want. Seriously?
And lastly, everyone here is entitled to their opinion, it does not mean any OP has to accept them, they are opinions that is all.
I would appreciate it in future if you do not pick out my quotes to denigrate and stick to your side of the road, your opinion on what I say is not needed nor appreciated. You stick to communicating with the OP please and butt out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Galabar01 said:


> From the posts I've shown, would you agree with my original conclusion that there are both (a) people on this thread that are writing hateful comments about the husband and (b) man-hating comments?
> 
> Also, I felt that you were fairly deeply engaged in this thread. Did someone report my posts (that were deleted) or did you simply read them and delete them directly? I ask because I want to feel like everyone is given equal treatment in this forum regardless of sex. However, none of the anti-male posts were flagged or removed.
> 
> Also please note that I never attacked women, rather I attacked a brand of radical feminism that seems to be in fashion nowadays.


Who are you, the thread police? This is a forum with many opinions, some you will like some you wont. It is not up to you to decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, that is the job of the moderator. YOU are out of line and your wording says it all "I attacked a brand of radical feminism" There is no need to attack anyone, stay on your side of the road. This is a public forum, if you don't like peoples belief systems/politics/ideologies , then don't come on here.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

aine said:


> @Galabar01
> I would appreciate it in future if you do not pick out my quotes to denigrate and stick to your side of the road, your opinion on what I say is not needed nor appreciated. You stick to communicating with the OP please and butt out.


I picked out your quote because it proved my point. There, I did it again, and, if one of your posts is needed to prove a point in the future, I'll quote it again. You can do the same.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

aine said:


> Who are you, the thread police? This is a forum with many opinions, some you will like some you wont. It is not up to you to decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, that is the job of the moderator. YOU are out of line and your wording says it all "I attacked a brand of radical feminism" There is no need to attack anyone, stay on your side of the road. This is a public forum, if you don't like peoples belief systems/politics/ideologies , then don't come on here.


Straw man argument. I pointed out a particular post that was clearly over the line. I was showing that what I original said was correct (and it was).

I'm not the thread police, but just like you, I can point out inappropriate posts.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

aine said:


> @Crs2918
> ...
> Do not leave any doors open for him. When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time, he has burnt his boats, you do not need a man who can take such extreme action not just affecting you but also his kid. In fact what he has done is a form of emotional abuse. He basically said through his actions, you either put up or shut up or he will file. Not the actions of a man worth being married to.
> Not someone you can depend upon in hard times, you sound young and I suspect you will be better off in the long run. Do not go to counselling with him.
> ...


OP, don't do this. I think you still may have a marriage yet. Keep working at it. I think you've gotten a lot of good, positive advice on this thread. If you take things like the above to heart, it's over. Don't listen and don't do it.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> Also he said how are you going to get a nanny? Isn’t your mom your best friend...super weird comment that came after she did that. I told him no why would you say something so weird. He’s like how would you handle her not being here, she’s like your best friend. I think that’s when he started lumping us as two crazies together.


Sounds to me he was saying that it seems to him that you two are always together, he can't be around his wife with out your mother being there also in the midst of everything.
Can't have time with his wife with out her butting in. My mother also acted more critical towards my dad when her sister came to visit. Aunt had a very bad attitude toward men in general. I dont know why my uncle stays married to her. Did your mom's presence change the way you interact toward your husband? Some people just stoke the fire if dissent.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I went back to your original post and i stand by what i have said

My husband just filed for divorce last week. Trigger reaction with no consideration of consequences or damage to marriage and OP. Immature.
He was getting frustrated and sad that I kept complaining about his work schedule.
Yes, no one likes complaining but don’t you have a say in how your relationship is conducted also, and how much time you need?
I said some pretty harsh things including you should move out of the bedroom because we don’t have much of a relationship. You are not mature either, but I can see you felt neglected whereas your H is putting everything into work at the expense of his marriage (it happens and then spouses wonder why the marriage is failing, marriage requires quality time and effort).
I said it in anger to move him to work on things with me. Exactly, probably not the most mature way to get him to notice, but I think he would not have changed anyway based on his ‘take it or leave it’ response.
He didn’t think we had as much of a problem and that much of the complaints were in my head. Of course because his needs were being met (probably for sex and companionship) but your needs were not being met, there is only so long that can go on until a marriage implodes, this is what has happened. Your harsh response and his reaction shows exactly what he thinks, shut up or put up.
He was very hurt by that. Because the status quo suited him fine.
We had been fighting a lot the past few months more than before. Because you were trying to get your needs met. Not communicated well but it sounds like your H wants his needs met but yours are not a priority, hence the extreme reaction of filing for divorce. Neither of us handle conflict well at all. That is pretty obvious but it is something you can learn for yourself, you cannot change him. Get IC.
Just the day prior we were planning our the logistics of updating my son’s room . How could he pull the trigger in a week. Was he faking it? Your guess is as good as anyone’s he is either immature, selfish, wants to shut your down and teach you a lesson or really reached the limit.
He said be careful what you wish for , you may just get it days before leaving. Not the response a man should give to his wife who is trying to get his attention to the neglect in his marriage. it is immature and self-serving. Weren't there any discussions about the state of your marriage?
He said people keep telling me to leave. I did all the things people say can push the spouse away the day he told me he had filed. I cried, I begged, I promised I’d do anything to make things better. To let me show him I could be better. And you will do all of that and end up at square one when you are not doing something else he likes. You are in a lose-lose scenario. Sure you are both young, have lots of learning to do, but when one partner goes out and files for divorce without any discussion, any consideration of the damage they have done, then they are no longer a safe partner, period. I don’t care what the “you can work it out’ brigade on here are telling you. What about his culpability, so you shut up and put up with the lack of engagement or attention in the marriage and woo him back? Believe me it will happen again when Mr Entitled finds something else he is not happy with. Let him have his way, give him his freedom and you live your life. Get counselling, get a life and make friends and learn that no one can make you happy, husbands, friends, etc. Only you can make yourself happy by being a complete person. I suspect once you grow and achieve that you will not want a man like your H. 
He cried and said he loves me, which makes this so hard. He told me to think about myself and the things that have happened. I asked for marriage counseling which we haven’t tried, and he said I never wanted it, which was not true. I had asked him to start with each of us getting our own therapist and we could get the marriage counselor after.
I asked for a separation instead, and he said we’ll be separated for at least 6 months until it’s final and said who knows, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I kept making promises. He said he was sticking to his decision. Let him stick to his decision and if you are wise you will work on yourself. He expects you to do all the changing, what will he do? At the expense of being slandered as a radical feminist which I am not but isn’t it about time that others stopped asking women to keep it all together, keep your man, keep your family together, etc etc. What about a man fulfilling his vows, to love and cherish till death do us part? Not to work and be a provider and let you get on with things till whenever the going is too tough, or you demand for your needs to be met and I decide to file for divorce. He is weak.
A week went by. I only talked to his father. I apologized for how they must be feeling and expressed my regret that I didn’t learn from my mistakes before the end. You are taking on too much of this burden, yes you should have sat him down and explained how you were feeling but I suspect you tried that and he fobbed you off and complained about your nagging. And the keep it together at all costs crew on here will tell you, you can save it if you just bend yourself into a pretzel and to hell with your needs. Advice like that causes women to spend years in marriages where their needs are never met, when they are told it is up to them to keep marriages together because 'he is a good man' etc etc. Good men are not just providers, wives do not need bankers!
Just let him go and do whatever he needs to do to make himself be a better man cause he has a lot of work to do too. As much as you.

P.S. Read about narcissism


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Update: I saw him this morning. It was cordial. I asked about whether he was considering what we talked about (he said he’s unsure - wondering if it affects the date of separation).

it didn’t sound good so I called him up and apologized for how he’d been feeling and making him feel he had to change himself. Making him feel unappreciated when he was working so hard. I told him why I loved him and that I know why we’re at the point in our lives. He said thank you for saying that. I said sorry if it made him uncomfortable and he said It didn’t. He said this time apart has been good for both of us to think and reflect. He said I was so mean (he got emotional here). And I said I don’t know why I was so often. It wasn’t him who needed to change but me. He said we could all improve. I told him have I’ve been to therapy 4 times in a week and I don’t want ppl to think I’m mean. He said ok thank you for saying these things. I appreciate it.
He said “i had to do this. I couldn’t handle it anymore.” I said I know it wasn’t good. I didn’t like how things were either. I said I’m willing to put in all the effort needed to make things better for us as a family and our son. I said he’s too important to me to not do this. I’m hoping you see the possibility of that. He said let’s just think about things. I said I don’t want to pressure you into doing something you don’t want to do. He said it’s not that. I’m not ready yet and need to think and see how it would affect the date of separation (?). I told him to have a good day at work and I’d tell him how our son does in daycare. He said i hope you have a good day too.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

aine said:


> I went back to your original post and i stand by what i have said
> 
> My husband just filed for divorce last week. Trigger reaction with no consideration of consequences or damage to marriage and OP. Immature.
> He was getting frustrated and sad that I kept complaining about his work schedule.
> ...


You are talking to yourself here. this is what suits you. Without knowing, or being there to really know what's in his mind (his wife, the OP doesn't know either) you are telling her exactly what he feels and the reasons why he's doing what he's doing. In these trying days medical doctors are living through some of the most demanding times they ever had in their life. Now if the OP husband is one of the ones going through it, be aware that their life is hell right now and some are faltering already due the constant pressures. The OP can corroborate on this if that's the case, and if that could be a factor or not. She's a medical doctor also and should know what's professionally going on with her husband. From her posts she's only part time, so most likely is not affecting her so much, and yes she is taking on this burden too much. She's been told numerous times to back off and let things develop one way or another, because at this stage that's all she can do.

I tell you, no matter what the situation, if my wife tells me to leave the marital bed, that's it, I also would not only leave the marital bed but, the marriage also.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> Update: I saw him this morning. It was cordial. I asked about whether he was considering what we talked about (he said he’s unsure - wondering if it affects the date of separation).
> 
> it didn’t sound good so I called him up and apologized for how he’d been feeling and making him feel he had to change himself. Making him feel unappreciated when he was working so hard. I told him why I loved him and that I know why we’re at the point in our lives. He said thank you for saying that. I said sorry if it made him uncomfortable and he said It didn’t. He said this time apart has been good for both of us to think and reflect. He said I was so mean (he got emotional here). And I said I don’t know why I was so often. It wasn’t him who needed to change but me. He said we could all improve. I told him have I’ve been to therapy 4 times in a week and I don’t want ppl to think I’m mean. He said ok thank you for saying these things. I appreciate it.
> He said “i had to do this. I couldn’t handle it anymore.” I said I know it wasn’t good. I didn’t like how things were either. I said I’m willing to put in all the effort needed to make things better for us as a family and our son. I said he’s too important to me to not do this. I’m hoping you see the possibility of that. He said let’s just think about things. I said I don’t want to pressure you into doing something you don’t want to do. He said it’s not that. I’m not ready yet and need to think and see how it would affect the date of separation (?). I told him to have a good day at work and I’d tell him how our son does in daycare. He said i hope you have a good day too.


 I wouldn't have said anything at this point personally..he asked for his space, and even now, with what you did here, you're definitely not giving him his space at all. If you keep this up, I'm not so sure it'll be good for your relationship. I think you should just mellow out, keep it professional and cordial; don't get personal unless he does.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know. He won’t even let me talk about anything. He said he appreciated it though and was glad I’ve been reflecting on myself.
Maybe I did mess up but at least he knows. I won’t approach him about it anymore.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

I know it's difficult to do...I'm struggling with it now...but please go no contact as much as possible. You may be surprised at the results.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

it felt like progress to me. That’s the most open he’s been since this happened and he seemed genuinely happy to hear some of those things. Idk I’ll just say hi and bye now


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

We tend to read into situations what we want to believe. My STBX sent me a text this AM and my first thought was "she misses me". But she really just wanted to ask a question. I'm no expert, but the key is to let the other person come to you. Sad to say, but it's a mind game....have the other person guessing why you aren't contacting them, what you're up to. They don't need to guess if you're constantly telling them. Not saying it's the right thing to do in every situation, but it worked for me before. Good luck!


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> it felt like progress to me. That’s the most open he’s been since this happened and he seemed genuinely happy to hear some of those things. Idk I’ll just say hi and bye now


Csr,

I found that conversation to be very positive. Stick with what you are doing. Maybe it's time for a hand written letter to the husband?


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> [In response to aine] You are talking to yourself here. this is what suits you. ...


Agreed. The OP has asked for help in saving her marriage. However, those comments are meant to destroy the marriage. The OP has stated, time and again, that they want to reconcile. Stop projecting.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> Agreed. The OP has asked for help in saving her marriage. However, those comments are meant to destroy the marriage. The OP has stated, time and again, that they want to reconcile. Stop projecting.


Good point. Not sure if your comment was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to destroy a marriage, but instead helping her win him back. That's what No Contact is about. Trust me, I would recommend anyone fight to the very end before divorcing. It's rarely the answer


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Dadto2 said:


> Good point. Not sure if your comment was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to destroy a marriage, but instead helping her win him back. That's what No Contact is about. Trust me, I would recommend anyone fight to the very end before divorcing. It's rarely the answer


I was agreeing with what you said to aine.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> I know. He won’t even let me talk about anything. He said he appreciated it though and was glad I’ve been reflecting on myself.
> Maybe I did mess up but at least he knows. I won’t approach him about it anymore.


If you are talking about the conversation that you had this morning with him... I think it was fine. 

You were not over bearing, not overly needy... It sounded like you owned your behavior in a responsible adult way. 

I think it was a good conversation. You will drive yourself crazy is you keep second guessing yourself. 

Give him space and see what happens. 

That is all you can really do...


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> I was agreeing with what you said to aine.


Ok, gotcha  I'm a mental mess right now....functioning on little sleep, so I thought I said something wrong. Just found the site and am enjoying reading and commenting...good for my soul.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> If you are talking about the conversation that you had this morning with him... I think it was fine.
> 
> You were not over bearing, not overly needy... It sounded like you owned your behavior in a responsible adult way.
> 
> ...


I am absolutely going nuts thinking I did the wrong thing, but he seemed to want to hear that to me. Thank you for your words


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Dadto2 said:


> Ok, gotcha  I'm a mental mess right now....functioning on little sleep, so I thought I said something wrong. Just found the site and am enjoying reading and commenting...good for my soul.


Very good for the soul. I feel calmest when I read these messages and post my thoughts.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> I am absolutely going nuts thinking I did the wrong thing, but he seemed to want to hear that to me. Thank you for your words


Don't doubt yourself. Actually I don't see any problem with what you did today. Us guys like to be encouraged like that. You've laid the groundwork, now sit back and wait. Resist the urge to call him again. Ball is in his court.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> I am absolutely going nuts thinking I did the wrong thing, but he seemed to want to hear that to me. Thank you for your words


You've got your son now, correct? Make sure you give your husband frequent updates, they way he did for you.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Yes it’s his first day of daycare ever today. I’ll definitely update him. 

I know I shouldn’t have my hopes up too much but I felt he listened and appreciated it. I think he just doesn’t want to have to pay more alimony if this gets dragged out more than necessary. I see that he still isn’t that hopeful but maybe saw something good in that discussion.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> Yes it’s his first day of daycare ever today. I’ll definitely update him.
> 
> I know I shouldn’t have my hopes up too much but I felt he listened and appreciated it. I think he just doesn’t want to have to pay more alimony if this gets dragged out more than necessary. I see that he still isn’t that hopeful but maybe saw something good in that discussion.


This is the last time I am going to remind you, you are probably tired of hearing it anyway... 

Give him space, WORK ON YOURSELF, KEEP LEARING ABOUT YOURSELF, FIX YOURSELF.... 

You cannot fix him, you cannot change him, you can only be there and be a new person if he comes back to you.

And understand this, he may not come back, it is entirely possible that he will not, but her might. 

Work for peace in your soul, let your god take your worries...

Relax, do your best and try and calm down... 

BREATH...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Crs2918 said:


> Update: I saw him this morning. It was cordial. I asked about whether he was considering what we talked about (he said he’s unsure - wondering if it affects the date of separation).


So @Crs2918 let's review this morning, okay? Bearing in mind that the long-term goal is to save the marriage and hopefully reconcile, and also remembering that you were paraphrasing and not necessarily giving a verbatim report, let's sort of take a look and see what went great and what might have been different or better (and different just means "not the same" whereas better means "an improved option").

The first thing you say is that it was cordial. YAY! I'm glad you two were able to see each other without it turning into a fight or avoiding each other or being hurtful. YAY!! Good job!!

Next, you say that you asked if he's thinking about the separation. Okay this is my own personal opinion, but that seems a little pushy to me, and I don't mean aggressive but rather like it's pressuring him. I know that in your head and heart you want this fixed YESTERDAY, and if it can't be done yesterday, at least quickly...as soon as possible!! But in an instance where a person felt like they just couldn't handle it anymore and they've given up and lost hope, that means they tried and tried (or felt like they did), and eventually just couldn't try any more! Pushing and pressuring a person who has given up or who feels hopeless will make them want to back up and protect themselves. Think of your own self: when you have had too much and need to catch your breath, how do you react when you are pushed then? It pushes you away, doesn't it?

So if you want him to feel like it's okay and you won't push him, one thing you can do is to let HIM be the one to lead when he's ready. Let HIM bring up the topic. Let HIM see that it's safe for him to bring it up. Let HIM see you acting in a new, different way. Your focus should be on learning new ways to express appreciation and gratitude...or learning new ways to act in kind ways instead of what he felt was "mean" ways. You focus on acting and showing him he is safe.

Finally, the date of separation is an important date to determine, because determines whether income is joint property or separate property...and it is used in determining alimony and child support. It's generally considered the date that spouses no longer live together as a married couple, but that's not always the obvious "the day a person moved out." His concern is whether or not trying to do counseling or other stuff might indicate that he moved out without the intent to divorce. If he muddies the waters by agreeing to XYZ, then the court will look for other evidence of when the couple intended to split, such as the date a spouse hires an attorney, communicates to the other spouse an intent to divorce, or actually files for divorce. So it isn't necessarily "good news" but it is wise for him to consider that too.



> it didn’t sound good so I called him up and apologized for how he’d been feeling and making him feel he had to change himself. Making him feel unappreciated when he was working so hard. I told him why I loved him and that I know why we’re at the point in our lives. He said thank you for saying that.


Okay... so you say that "it didn't sound good so you called him up." @Crs2918 you were afraid and your fear thought it sounded like he's thinking about divorce, so again YOU got in touch with HIM. That's another push. I want to ask you a favor. Take a moment and take a deep breath, and remind yourself that he is allowed to feel what he feels and it won't be the same as how you feel. HE feels like he can't take your meanness anymore, he has given up hope, and you keep pushing him. In my opinion, if you really want him to come back, you are going to have to show him with your actions that he is SAFE...and he's not safe if you are pushing him to do things in your speed when YOU want (rather than being okay letting him do things in his speed). Now, it is not cool for a spouse to move out and treat their spouse like he's treating you, but you yourself have said what you believe you've done to push him to this point, so I'm listening to what you have said is happening here.

I'm glad you got to apologize, but that apology was almost entirely for you to take the burden off of your heart. One of the things you're going to need to learn how to do is to do things FOR HIM and if you are a little uncomfortable, that you are able to endure it until it's good FOR HIM. I'm also glad that you were able to verbalize to him that you recognize you realize how much he was hurting and that he felt unappreciated. Just the fact that you can recognize that is a good, solid step forward!



> I said sorry if it made him uncomfortable and he said It didn’t. He said this time apart has been good for both of us to think and reflect. He said I was so mean (he got emotional here). And I said I don’t know why I was so often. It wasn’t him who needed to change but me. He said we could all improve. I told him have I’ve been to therapy 4 times in a week and I don’t want ppl to think I’m mean. He said ok thank you for saying these things. I appreciate it.


@Crs2918, do you see where he got emotional? That is the sore point. That is what REALLY hurt him. His words: "You were so mean." Now I don't know what his definition of "mean" is, but that might be a good thing for you to learn from him, and even if you completely 100% disagree with how he defines it or what he says, give him the space to talk (if he's willing). In addition, no matter what he says (his opinion may be vastly different from yours), tell him "Thank you for being honest with me. I won't lie that was hard to hear but I'm going to think about what you said" ... and then look at the man in the mirror and see if what he said rings true. Now, it may be that he's kind of searching for an excuse to behave poorly, but if there is even a grain of truth, then make the effort to work on yourself to be a better person. One way or another, though, it's clear that some things you either said or did deeply hurt him to the core, to the point that he finally couldn't take it any more and gave up hope.

My largest word of caution to you would be one thing--you said that you told him you've been to therapy 4 times this week, and you don't want to be mean. I would caution you: don't just "say" you're going to therapy or just physically sit there in the counselor's chair--actually do the hard work to look into your heart, into your past, into your fears and your current actions, and make the effort to learn to be different. Actually practice a new way of thinking and acting. Not always, but often a counselor will give a client what is essentially "homework" and the idea of the homework is to learn to think a new way and apply what you'd learning in their normal, day-to-day life. But if you don't do the homework, or if you are afraid to look at what you need to look at, then nothing will change and not only will your hubby not come home, but you won't be a better woman ready for a healthy relationship when the next guy comes along. So don't just "go to therapy"--actually do the work!



> He said “i had to do this. I couldn’t handle it anymore.” I said I know it wasn’t good. I didn’t like how things were either. I said I’m willing to put in all the effort needed to make things better for us as a family and our son. I said he’s too important to me to not do this. I’m hoping you see the possibility of that. He said let’s just think about things. I said I don’t want to pressure you into doing something you don’t want to do. He said it’s not that. I’m not ready yet and need to think and see how it would affect the date of separation (?). I told him to have a good day at work and I’d tell him how our son does in daycare. He said i hope you have a good day too.


So first, this is the third time that you actually did pressure him, and what's funny is that you say "I don't want to pressure you" and yet that's exactly what you're doing!! So truly think about that. If you really don't want to pressure him, then you need to act in a way that is not strongly trying to persuade him to *do* something he *does* not want to *do!*

Next you said "I’m willing to put in all the effort needed to make things better for us as a family and our son." That is you talking, saying something to give him grounds to expect it, and now, unless you actually deliver and make the effort to change and learn how to not be mean, you've broken a promise to him and essentially taught him that he can not trust your words. See, right now it is very important for you to do two things: a) actually look at yourself and put in the hard work to change yourself, and b) very consistently show him through your behavior that your WORDS and ACTIONS match. If you tell him one thing and do another, then he'll know he can't trust you! But if you tell him one thing and follow through and do it...slowly over some months, he'll begin to see that he is able to trust you. Right now, he has no reason to believe that you will put in all the effort needed, because you're only saying that so YOU won't hurt and much as you hurt him! So it is truly VITAL that you actually follow through now and keep up with your therapy and read books and do whatever you have to do to become a soft-hearted, kind, gentle, loving partner.

Finally, he said (more than once, I might add) "I’m not ready yet and need to think and see how it would affect the date of separation " so he is being very clear. HE IS NOT READY YET...and yet you keep pushing him. I would very politely suggest that you learn how to back off, give him some space, continue to be kind and gentle, and let him be the one to bring it up. Until he brings it up, you work on YOU. Let him work on him.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you for your insight. Maybe I shouldn’t have said those things. He seemed appreciative though, but maybe just being nice :/. I will stop discussing it completely with him. I wish I could tell him I don’t mind keeping the date of separation the same. I don’t mind losing alimony for the sake of giving us a try, but I guess I can’t say that. I will leave him be from now on.

it’s so hard to do. I wanted him to know that I do regret the things I’ve done. Not just for me, but so he knows I understand. So he knows I get where he’s coming from. I guess it’s out there now. Will hope for the best!


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> Thank you for your insight. Maybe I shouldn’t have said those things. He seemed appreciative though, but maybe just being nice :/. I will stop discussing it completely with him. I wish I could tell him I don’t mind keeping the date of separation the same. I don’t mind losing alimony for the sake of giving us a try, but I guess I can’t say that. I will leave him be from now on.
> 
> it’s so hard to do. I wanted him to know that I do regret the things I’ve done. Not just for me, but so he knows I understand. So he knows I get where he’s coming from. I guess it’s out there now. Will hope for the best!


I'm going to go in the other direction and suggest letting him know these things. He may be concerned about that and that may block him reaching out to you. It reminds me of the saying "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." Just be open and honest with him.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> it felt like progress to me. That’s the most open he’s been since this happened and he seemed genuinely happy to hear some of those things. Idk I’ll just say hi and bye now


I agree with some of the posters here, you have to back off, leave him be and just focus on yourself. Stop communicating with him about the relationship. You cannot help yourself it seems


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> You are talking to yourself here. this is what suits you. Without knowing, or being there to really know what's in his mind (his wife, the OP doesn't know either) you are telling her exactly what he feels and the reasons why he's doing what he's doing. In these trying days medical doctors are living through some of the most demanding times they ever had in their life. Now if the OP husband is one of the ones going through it, be aware that their life is hell right now and some are faltering already due the constant pressures. The OP can corroborate on this if that's the case, and if that could be a factor or not. She's a medical doctor also and should know what's professionally going on with her husband. From her posts she's only part time, so most likely is not affecting her so much, and yes she is taking on this burden too much. She's been told numerous times to back off and let things develop one way or another, because at this stage that's all she can do.
> 
> I *tell you, no matter what the situation, if my wife tells me to leave the marital bed, that's it, I also would not only leave the marital bed but, the marriage also.*


rather extreme response to file for divorce without finding out what is going on, no? Moving out of the bedroom or asking someone to leave the marital bed may be considered extreme but it is a warning shot and a call to stop and look at the marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Just wondering aloud, what was the 'terrible thing' he did to OP which she wont divulge. It may just change our opinion of this whole scenario.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

He’s a very conflict averse person. All the fighting was enough to make him implode, plus my mom, plus exhaustion, plus work sliding. That’s enough for him to snap.

I know I shouldn’t have according to most of you, but I’ve said what needed to be said. He never gave me a chance. Now I’ll let him stew on it. Idk if we’ll make it. I love him and it’ll require a lot of work to get through this ordeal. He’d have to want it himself. So we’ll see what happens. I’m going to give him space now. At least he knows I’m not sitting at home belligerent without any understanding for what I’ve done to contribute to this downfall. He knows I get it. He knows I get why he did it. Now he can focus on other aspects of the marriage instead of the guilt of ending it and anger at me for never understanding.
That’s my opinion but I’m probably wrong.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Crs2918 said:


> He’s a very conflict averse person. All the fighting was enough to make him implode, plus my mom, plus exhaustion, plus work sliding. That’s enough for him to snap.
> 
> I know I shouldn’t have according to most of you, but I’ve said what needed to be said. He never gave me a chance. Now I’ll let him stew on it. Idk if we’ll make it. I love him and it’ll require a lot of work to get through this ordeal. He’d have to want it himself. So we’ll see what happens. I’m going to give him space now. At least he knows I’m not sitting at home belligerent without any understanding for what I’ve done to contribute to this downfall. He knows I get it. He knows I get why he did it. Now he can focus on other aspects of the marriage instead of the guilt of ending it and anger at me for never understanding.
> That’s my opinion but I’m probably wrong.


I don't think you are wrong. I know lots of people have different opinions so it is hard to know what to do. 

But I also think that giving him space and letting him come to you to talk if he ever wants to, is a good call for now. 

Just work on yourself and see what happens...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think you laid it out and explained nicely, and now you can let HIM think about it, ruminate, and decide what HE feels and wants to do. I don't agree with NEVER talking with him -- that resolves NOTHING. You have told him what you need to. Now, work on yourself, stay healthy, get sleep, etc..


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> He’s a very conflict averse person. All the fighting was enough to make him implode, plus my mom, plus exhaustion, plus work sliding. That’s enough for him to snap.
> 
> I know I shouldn’t have according to most of you, but I’ve said what needed to be said. He never gave me a chance. Now I’ll let him stew on it. Idk if we’ll make it. I love him and it’ll require a lot of work to get through this ordeal. He’d have to want it himself. So we’ll see what happens. I’m going to give him space now. At least he knows I’m not sitting at home belligerent without any understanding for what I’ve done to contribute to this downfall. He knows I get it. He knows I get why he did it. Now he can focus on other aspects of the marriage instead of the guilt of ending it and anger at me for never understanding.
> That’s my opinion but I’m probably wrong.


Again, I think you’re doing great. You said the things you wanted to say and got it off your chest. Now sit back and see what happens. The hardest thing for us to do is to let the other person have their space, their time to process what is going on. We can’t control them ...can’t make them show us love, go to counseling, etc. I can’t guarantee you this approach will work, but I can guarantee begging and pleading will not. When my wife first left, I went no contact and she came back to me within a month. Unfortunately, we didn’t work out our differences and are split again. But I would have never gotten another chance otherwise.


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## UndecidedinNY (Jul 11, 2013)

I hope things work out for you, but you REALLY need to work on what comes out of your mouth, or else even if you work things out this time, this is likely going to happen again. No one wants to stay married to someone who is verbally nasty, and 



> Neither of us handle conflict well at all.


means you have some work to do (and whether or not he does the same work, because YOU want to save the marriage, at least do your part).


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## 911Beefs (Aug 13, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> I’d love to hear some advice. My husband just filed for divorce last week. Prior to that he was getting frustrated and sad that I kept complaining about his work schedule. I said some pretty harsh things including you should move out of the bedroom because we don’t have much of a relationship. I said it in anger to move him to work on things with me. It was childish and selfish. He didn’t think we had as much of a problem and that much of the complaints were in my head. He was very hurt by that. We had been fighting a lot the past few months more than before. Neither of us handle conflict well at all. Just the day prior we were planning our the logistics of updating my son’s room . How could he pull the trigger in a week. Was he faking it?
> 
> I have so many many regrets . He said be careful what you wish for , you may just get it days before leaving. He said people keep telling me to leave. I did all the things people say can push the spouse away the day he told me he had filed. I cried, I begged, I promised I’d do anything to make things better. To let me show him I could be better. He cried and said he loves me, which makes this so hard. He told me to think about myself and the things that have happened. I asked for marriage counseling which we haven’t tried, and he said I never wanted it, which was not true. I had asked him to start with each of us getting our own therapist and we could get the marriage counselor after.
> I asked for a separation instead, and he said we’ll be separated for at least 6 months until it’s final and said who knows, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I kept making promises. He said he was sticking to his decision.
> ...


We all have to be careful of our words because they will make a lasting affect good or bad on loved ones.
I was verbally abused and divorced my husband 8 years ago. 
Men need to feel APPRECIATED. If they feel they are doing everything wrong and can’t make you happy they feel like failures.
You seemed to be in tune more with your needs & wants. It takes understanding.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know :/. I have points/issues I’m actively trying to reflect on and work on with my therapist. I know I have a problem. I can’t fix his but I can certainly adapt and fix mine. I really want to do this not just for him, but to be better for everyone.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Sorry, all I can offer are good wishes and a cyber hug or two.
One day at a time 
Buffer


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> I’d love to hear some advice. My husband just filed for divorce last week. Prior to that he was getting frustrated and sad that *I kept complaining about his work schedule. I said some pretty harsh things including you should move out of the bedroom because we don’t have much of a relationship. I said it in anger *to move him to work on things with me. It was childish and selfish. He didn’t think we had as much of a problem and that much of the complaints were in my head. He was very hurt by that. We had been fighting a lot the past few months more than before. Neither of us handle conflict well at all. Just the day prior we were planning our the logistics of updating my son’s room . How could he pull the trigger in a week. Was he faking it?


You basically answered your own question about why he got the divorce. You were the one complained and started the whole thing instead of just shutting up and quietly working with him.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know why he filed, I was hoping for advice. That was all. Any words of advice are appreciated.


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

I've only read the first two pages, but a few things stand out...

You keep saying 'my' child/son and not 'our' child/son. This is his child as well it not??

You knew his work schedule/life prior to getting married. Why did you think he would automatically change?

You see men that are the 'breadwinners' for the most part aren't going to work because they want to, it's because they HAVE TO. You have viewed it previously as him 'escaping' home life, which basically demonstrates how little you understand him, and what he was trying to do.

In many cases I have heard women complaining that 'he' is always at work and never around, but then if the money drops off, they start complaining about that also. What person wants to be in that environment?

Some here may say you have done nothing wrong. I call BS. Your language in your initial post screams 'ME ME ME!', and it has taken the rug being pulled out from under you for you to get some REAL perspective.

The situation the world is in at present, means that if someone can get lots of work then they do it. I myself have just finished a 13 day straight stint and if my missus behaved the way you did, I would be giving her her marching orders.

You have started to see the light, but you need to change your belief system if you want this to work, and not find a 'band aid' approach. If you offered more support to him, perhaps he may do more with his schedule, or see if someone else can fill in. He certainly won't feel like it if all you do is project negativity with your words/actions.

Imagine if he was out of work (like so many are at present). How would it feel then?

Imagine if he came home after you have spent a whole day looking after your son, to say 'you aren't doing a great job looking after him'... I bet that would hit hard.

If someone is doing their best, and yet their partner doesn't feel it's enough, then don't be surprised if they look for greener pastures, even if it means going it alone for some peace.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

This thread is very, very sad and hard to read. 

OP - I can tell you are in the middle of turmoil. While I understand your regret, the things you felt are real. You aren't the only one at fault in this situation. I struggle with the same work-life balance issues within my marriage and it can be very difficult at times. It isn't okay saying things out of anger (but....who doesnt?), but you shouldn't be pushed to that out of desperation for a reaction. Ive seen a few male perspectives thrown out here referring to your issues as "complaints" for working hard, which are pretty ridiculous. Balance matters! It is great having a partner in life who loves his/her work, but at a certain point, your spouse should know when they are asking for too much sacrifice on your end. Your quality of life and day-to-day happiness matters as well.

Therapy to work on communication would be really great for both of you. My husband and I did a few sessions to work on our communication about this same exact issue! It isn't your husband's job to make sure you feel fulfilled, but he should be accountable for filling your cup up a little bit. Whether that is a specific date night or some quality time together in the evening, that needs to be a priority if the two of you decide to reconcile. If he isn't willing to give a little, you are signing up for the same continuous cycle. 

I wish the two of you the best of luck!


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi Csr,

Just keep hanging in there. It seems that your husband responded well to your initial contact. Continue to send him the kid updates. Also, I would suggest a letter expressing your feelings. Don't completely cut contact.

I'll give you one very important piece of advice: look through all the comments and pick out those that tell you to never speak to your husband again, to divorce him immediately, etc.. I would then ignore any advice that the owners of those comments made. You've stated you want to reconcile. They don't want you to.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> ...
> Balance matters! It is great having a partner in life who loves his/her work, but at a certain point, your spouse should know when they are asking for too much sacrifice on your end. Your quality of life and day-to-day happiness matters as well.
> ...


Absolutely! 

The house is currently on fire. You need to put that out first. However, if things can be mended with you and your husband, and you want things to work for the long term, you need to be "equally yoked." You need a partnership, give and take. Once the initial fire is out, therapy would be a great idea.


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## I.T. Guy (Oct 7, 2012)

AS a guy, I certainly have a perspective on this.

Long story short, you nagged and didn't appreciate him.

Why, oh why, would he WANT to stay?

At this point, if you want him back, what do you think from HIS perspective would be effective?

Time for some deep introspection.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

The OP has said many times that she gets it. I don't see how piling on is helpful to her. She made mistakes which she's acknowledged and she's committed to working on herself. She's demonstrated this to her H by distancing herself from her toxic mother, and seeing a therapist, among other actions. But her H has to do his part too if the marriage is to survive. Thus far, he hasn't shown any indication that he is willing to do so and his aversion to conflict doesn't bode well for this happening. 
@Crs2918, I know you don't want to post what big mistakes your H made. You say you've forgiven him, and that it doesn't have anything to do with the marriage issues now. But deep hurts in a marriage fester and reverberate unless they are dealt with head on and the work is done to repair the damage. I suspect that there is some resentment that built up in you over whatever your H did and that was a factor in your angry outburts at him, whether your aware of that or not. My H and I rug swept his infidelity for many years and when it finally exploded to the surface, I was the one who suffered the most. I acted out when I should have spoken up. Whatever happens with your H, learning to be more honest about what's really bothering you will help you going forward in all your relationships.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

blahfridge said:


> The OP has said many times that she gets it. I don't see how piling on is helpful to her. She made mistakes which she's acknowledged and she's committed to working on herself. She's demonstrated this to her H by distancing herself from her toxic mother, and seeing a therapist, among other actions. But her H has to do his part too if the marriage is to survive. Thus far, he hasn't shown any indication that he is willing to do so and his aversion to conflict doesn't bode well for this happening.
> @Crs2918, I know you don't want to post what big mistakes your H made. You say you've forgiven him, and that it doesn't have anything to do with the marriage issues now. But deep hurts in a marriage fester and reverberate unless they are dealt with head on and the work is done to repair the damage. I suspect that there is some resentment that built up in you over whatever your H did and that was a factor in your angry outburts at him, whether your aware of that or not. My H and I rug swept his infidelity for many years and when it finally exploded to the surface, I was the one who suffered the most. I acted out when I should have spoken up. Whatever happens with your H, learning to be more honest about what's really bothering you will help you going forward in all your relationships.


Amen to this, she has some work to do but she knows she is the main issue and has to work on herself. 

I think she is trying to be self aware and trying to grow. 

I for one hope it works out for her...


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

I.T. Guy said:


> AS a guy, I certainly have a perspective on this.
> 
> Long story short, you nagged and didn't appreciate him.
> 
> ...


Genuinely asking here from a wife's perspective, but at what point do you think the wife has the right to express feeling frustrated about not having relationship needs met? I get so irritated when my husband turns an open conversation into "oh you're just *****ing/looking for something to complain about", even though how I feel is real. This seems like a common marital argument due to difficulty communicating. OP didn't have issues appreciating her husband...she had issues with coping with their difficulties reconnecting as partners. 

How should OP have gone about expressing wanting to spend more time with her husband? Curious for myself as well. If the husband can request acts of service (laundry, child rearing, meal prep) from the wife...isn't it fair for the wife to request things for herself? 

Obviously we only have one side here, but it doesnt seem like OP's husband was very concerned with the quality of his wife's day.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Before this happened we did have arguments about this. I think what I’ve learned (all this talk about cups  ) and kind of what he occasionally said, too. If I showed understanding or showed him love and affection, it would have motivated to give back. I guess the whole give and you shall receive mindset. I admit I was doing all the chores and child rearing, but that’s not enough to “fill his cup.”
I think that’s what I should have done and it would have made him more affectionate/loving in return.


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## Lifeafter (Jul 28, 2020)

I am in a similar situation right now myself. The one thing I am seeing with all the reading I am doing is it’s both your faults. He could have been more open with you and you to him and not let it get to this point but that is in a perfect world. I feel like since you being the woman trying to save your marriage, that maybe you should do things based off logic and not emotion men aren’t good with emotion but are dumb and need it told to them in the most childish of ways sometimes. I am not sure this would work but maybe just mention to him and don’t push or add anything extra to the conversation other than, could you both write down your wants and desires for your marriage. Then give it to each other and see if there is something to work from. This is just an idea I had while reading your post. As for his job, I feel if this job makes him happy then that is just something that needs to be left alone. How many people do you know work in a job they love. Most do because it pays the bills. So as long as the job is not an excuse to have an affair then I see no reason he should quite. I am not sure if he makes enough for you to be a stay at home wife or if you would even want this but if so then that could give you time for the house business and then you could go take him lunch to his job some days. This would allow more time together. I am just throwing out ideas so please don’t think into them. I would love for my wife to be able to stay home and not work and I know she would love that but not in our cards financially or marriage wise at the moment. I will leave you with this that it is hard when this starts the separation the not knowing but crazy enough after about 2 or 3 weeks or so you should start to feel more at ease and not so scattered and off your rocker feeling. This was me anyway. Don’t get me wrong it is still all I think about but able to juggle it with everything else a little better. Also as mentioned before good for you to get your mother out of this. This is between the two of you only. Keep it that way for now. Try not to tell everyone about it and see if you can work together on this for now. Also I have heard nothing but negative stuff on going to a marriage counselor. Marriage retreats I have heard are better as they are trying to work to save the marriage and not the individual. Go look on YouTube for “marriage helpers” I really like what they say. They are not about mind games and stuff like that. Good luck to you both I hope it works out and this makes you both stronger than ever together. 
P.S. I am finding this out that it is not going to happen overnight. So be very patient. I have been talking with one coach and he told me I should hopefully start seeing some improvement in about 3 to 4 months. I hope yours is much less but wanted to tell you this so you don’t give up. It could take even longer but maybe you will see some good happening in this time frame. Sorry to go on and on.


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## Lifeafter (Jul 28, 2020)

moulinyx said:


> Genuinely asking here from a wife's perspective, but at what point do you think the wife has the right to express feeling frustrated about not having relationship needs met? I get so irritated when my husband turns an open conversation into "oh you're just *****ing/looking for something to complain about", even though how I feel is real. This seems like a common marital argument due to difficulty communicating. OP didn't have issues appreciating her husband...she had issues with coping with their difficulties reconnecting as partners.
> 
> How should OP have gone about expressing wanting to spend more time with her husband? Curious for myself as well. If the husband can request acts of service (laundry, child rearing, meal prep) from the wife...isn't it fair for the wife to request things for herself?
> 
> Obviously we only have one side here, but it doesnt seem like OP's husband was very concerned with the quality of his wife's day.


You have every right to what you are thinking. I am a man who is going through all this now and it is just as much my fault as hers. I suck at communicating and would do anything possible to get out of tough conversations. I am starting to think I am just a typical guy as I hear about all this more and more. We are dumb to emotion and need things told to us with kid gloves on. I am not trying to down men or myself but just having to face myself more and more everyday on my marriage journey.


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## I.T. Guy (Oct 7, 2012)

moulinyx said:


> Genuinely asking here from a wife's perspective, but at what point do you think the wife has the right to express feeling frustrated about not having relationship needs met?
> <snipped>


She gets to ask, for sure.

Anyone, and everyone, get to ask, give, do, not do, whatever they want.

Perhaps meeting him at the door with a smile and a hug, and simply saying, "Thank you for working for our family today. I love you, and appreciate you"!

Go fix him a glass of ice water, give it to him, then WALK AWAY. If he wants you there right then, then he will ask you to stay.

You mentioned the bedroom problem. Well, solve it. Initiate, do him every which way. See how he responds.

You are under no obligation to do any of this. I assure you it is a good start.

We aren't talking political correctness here, we are getting to the raw underlying desires of a man. I promise to be horrifyingly transparent and honest about base male nature.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

CRS2918

For a husband to leave his wife - and infidelity not part of the relationship - 
Your husband? He has been unhappy for quite some time - not just a few months

You are six days posting here and you need to take some of the words to you with a cube of salt.

For a husband to leave he has to consider what life will be like without his (un)happy home/house he has been working to support. He has to consider the extra $$$ setting up a 2nd residence - he has to consider the $$$ of spousal support.
He has to consider he now has to do his own laundry and grocery shopping

He is choosing loneliness - no wife, part-time being with his son (you say he loves son?) 

For a husband to leave - he has to be unhappy. - for a long time unless he is not an average male specimen.
(again - no infidelity)

Most men keep their emotions tamped down - social training: "Real MEN don' cry!" sort of thing.

You and he are tied together for a long time via your son so start thinking long term. Your husband has to sort out his pent-up dislike of coming home - even after a 12 hour day of work. Think what you know is in his mind? 
Not knowing what kind of work he does - thinking maybe there is a lot of frustration both with the hours and material and/or people issues. ??? Then he comes hope to more complaints and a toxic mother-in-law influenced wife?

He has been unhappy for a long time - 

Now that he has started divorce proceedings - you are not "set in stone" going to be a divorcee immediately (most state have quite a bit of time-wait for finalization) so don't quit working on the issues you both face.

He needs to be encouraged to talk to someone or multiple someones to work through his personal demons. Anger? Does he indicate he hates somethings? Sadness? Feeling like he is doing his best and it is not good enough? (not saying he is really doing his best in relationship to being a spouse with a son)

People change as they age and both husband and wife have to accomodate such changes and also keep from changing themself in a way that can break friendship. 

Are you or have you really been a friend with your husband? Have you both kept up your appearance and health?

a bit of perspective - my wife and I - 2nd time around - and she really dislikes my work - but she doesn't complain about always having a new car or up-to-date appliances in house - or never having to worry about buying whatever she wants and not having to work a job out of the house (kids are on their own) - she doesn't have to worry about anything in the way of house, yard, car maintenance. We do make an effort to spend a day every weekend together - something like a boat-ride/picnic or a drive somewhere to see a sight. 

You have to find some kind of way to meet and you start by sharing your thoughts in a non-confrontational way.
and then bargin for some changes 

With the restrictions on "social" activities - choices are limited but choices are available

Husband needs to get his demons (that caused him to seek divorce) out in the open - IC if no friends.

He has to find out what it takes for him to become happy again - and you don't paint him as selfish.
so what is his real issues? And then yours?

If months of trying and you find no way to "meet in the middle" - then try to seperate amicably for the sakes of 
your son. 

Good Luck


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## Blackrose22 (Aug 16, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Do you have a job? Or at least did you have one before COVID19?
> 
> How long have the two of you been together and married?
> 
> ...


Hello, I agree. The break down of a relationship is never one persons fault so while you may have said some things you regret. That probably did not cause this. Keep strong


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## Blackrose22 (Aug 16, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> Ok ok fine won’t do that. I know that would move me, but figured it would look kinda nuts in this situation. Thanks for knocking some sense into Starfire!
> No by new marriage, I mean through counseling each of us working on our own issues to come out of stronger as a couple. I by no means want to be a doormat. I know it would be unsustainable and eventually we’d be right back here. I mean we both put in the effort to rebuild a new and improved relationship with therapy. Let go of past hurts. Communicate better. Negotiate through conflict instead of making demands. Like that.
> 
> so Star Fire- your suggestion is to give him space and stop begging. If he wants to come back he will.
> ...


I know this is hard but give him space. You did not bring you to this point it takes two. Really think if his behavior is something you want to deal with right now. Take this time to think if he makes you happy. Take the time to see if you can make you happy. Begging him to come back wont make you happy. You will be tap dancing moving forward if he does. Stay strong. Try the counseling first. If he care about the marriage, he will go


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

BluesPower said:


> Well, I just read it differently.
> 
> And I have read all your posts. Everyone has their opinion, and you have yours, mine is different.
> 
> ...


Who was supposed to pat you on the back? And actually people admire men who take care of their family on their own. Being single parent is difficult, for man or woman. But nobody is gonna pat our back for taking care of our own family.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What is a little odd is that for a man in so much demand on his job that he sometimes doesn't get home 'til 10 pm is able to take 2 days off in a row on no notice.

The requesting the return of his love letters is also curious. Preparation for rewriting marital history?


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

Blondilocks might be on to something. If "he" was betrayed - could be the mental disorientation betrayal bestows upon the betrayed? But since he has initiated the proceedings - indeed there seems to be a fish somewhere in this situation


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hey guys, so he wants to get his premarital furniture and clothes in the next 2 weeks per the lawyer and we plan to put the house up for sale in the next couple months.
This has been so hard. It’s moving so fast. I don’t know why I still have a tiny shred of hope because it looks horrible. It’s been a little over 2 weeks since he left. 
I’m so crushed. My anxiety is slowly improving. Taking meds. I’m missing my son terribly and a future of not seeing him everyday is starting to weigh on me. He’s used to it going many days sometimes not seeing him. My therapist says these steps are logical steps in divorce proceedings, but it seems to fast. 
I am trying to give him space. I did apologize again on Sunday. He said he wants to focus on himself right now. Idk what to do


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

@Crs2918, I'm afraid you have to face the fact that your H is done. These are not the actions of someone how just decided a few weeks ago to divorce. He's obviously thought about it for a long time and the last argument was the clincher, but you may never know all the reasons behind his decision. Do not take all the blame on yourself. His reluctance to try to meet your needs more fully and to discuss and resolve issues are all part of the breakdown of your marriage. You and your son will be okay. You'll forge ways to connect when you're not with him. 
Stop apologizing. He's not willing to fight for you so don't fight for him. You're young enough to start over with some hard-earned self-awareness. Continue to focus on yourself and your own growth as an individual. That is how you become better. Without the same process, your H is going to make the same mistakes with someone else. You can change that script for yourself and for your son. I have faith in you!


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

You don’t think there’s anything I can say or do to help this? Talk to his father again or some of his friends?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Crs2918 said:


> He said he wants to focus on himself right now. Idk what to do


Yes, you do know what to do. Same thing as him. It’s time to focus on yourself.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Crs2918 said:


> You don’t think there’s anything I can say or do to help this? Talk to his father again or some of his friends?


It won't change anything except to make your H even less likely to reconcile. At this point, the 180 is your only hope. He'll respect you more for keeping your distance and it will allow you to begin to accept what's happened and move on - with or without him.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> Hey guys, so he wants to get his premarital furniture and clothes in the next 2 weeks per the lawyer and we plan to put the house up for sale in the next couple months.
> This has been so hard. It’s moving so fast. I don’t know why I still have a tiny shred of hope because it looks horrible. It’s been a little over 2 weeks since he left.
> I’m so crushed. My anxiety is slowly improving. Taking meds. I’m missing my son terribly and a future of not seeing him everyday is starting to weigh on me. He’s used to it going many days sometimes not seeing him. My therapist says these steps are logical steps in divorce proceedings, but it seems to fast.
> I am trying to give him space. I did apologize again on Sunday. He said he wants to focus on himself right now. Idk what to do


It's perfectly normal to hold onto hope. Hope wakes us up each day. But the key is keep that to yourself (180)  Remember, pursuing him at this time is most likely going to dash any real hope you may have. Tough I know, but print out the 180 and tape it to your bathroom mirror and carry a copy in your car. Look at it often. And start focusing on yourself! My wife and I officially split less than a month ago. I moped around, cried and threw a big pity party and then said enough! Allow yourself to grieve, but only for a short time. Then start taking care of yourself because that is the only thing you can control right now. I'm working out and getting my body (and mind) in the best shape I can. You are probably not eating and losing weight (divorce diet). Usually this isn't a good thing, but for me, it's allowing me to lose the 10 lbs I needed to. Stay positive! Go for a walk. Jam out to some music. Know it gets better everyday. .


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you for your advice. What is this 180 you’re talking about? I still have to see him for my son’s transfers. I have lost 5-6lbs in 2 weeks. I guess that’s kinda good.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> Thank you for your advice. What is this 180 you’re talking about? I still have to see him for my son’s transfers. I have lost 5-6lbs in 2 weeks. I guess that’s kinda good.


180 is a concept developed by Michelle Weiner-Davis of “Divorce Busters.” The 180 list goes:



> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
> ...


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> You don’t think there’s anything I can say or do to help this? Talk to his father again or some of his friends?


At this point, make sure that you consult with a lawyer. Do you both own the house? I wouldn't agree to a sale until you understand your rights.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

We both own and we both agreed that neither one of us would like to buy each other out. So in this case we have to sell it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If he feels he’s done then he’s done. Chasing him won’t help. Focus on creating a life for you and your son. There’s nothing easy about divorce but you _can_ get through it and rebuild.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

We both own and we both agreed that neither one of us would like to buy each other out. So in this case we have to sell it.  it’s scary to do it, but I don’t want to pay the mortgage on it anyway. I’m looking forward to my own place, but really wish he’d want to be with me there :/


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Crs2918 said:


> We both own and we both agreed that neither one of us would like to buy each other out. So in this case we have to sell it.  it’s scary to do it, but I don’t want to pay the mortgage on it anyway. I’m looking forward to my own place, but really wish he’d want to be with me there :/


Your husband has chosen a path he likely cannot/will not deviate from, even if part of him believes it makes sense to do so. This may not be the time or place for a line from Star Trek, but it seems appropriate- "What you want is irrelevant; what you have chosen is at hand." He set in motion a choice that is going to play itself out.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs2918 said:


> We both own and we both agreed that neither one of us would like to buy each other out. So in this case we have to sell it.  it’s scary to do it, but I don’t want to pay the mortgage on it anyway. I’m looking forward to my own place, but really wish he’d want to be with me there :/


Nothing says that you have to move ahead on his time table. Be respectful, but talk you your own lawyer and start to slow things down.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Crs, any update?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Nothing new. Still trying to divide assets and sell our house. I’ve narrowed down apartments and he’s looking for some still. I’m still sad about all this but less anxious.
He said he wants a clean slate several times the last we talked and only wants to focus on “regaining [him]self.” He said maybe after that he’d consider counseling but doesn’t make much sense to me.

I’m slowly losing hope. I wish I could say something to him, but I doubt it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Crs2918 said:


> Nothing new. Still trying to divide assets and sell our house. I’ve narrowed down apartments and he’s looking for some still. I’m still sad about all this but less anxious.
> He said he wants a clean slate several times the last we talked and only wants to focus on “regaining [him]self.” He said maybe after that he’d consider counseling but doesn’t make much sense to me.
> 
> I’m slowly losing hope. I wish I could say something to him, but I doubt it.


I'm happy you're feeling a bit better about this. 
But he's uprooting both of your lives by selling the home and dividing assets. I don't think that in your position I would consider counseling with him. For what? Sounds like he's just stringing you along with that nonsense. Find a way to move on, he is; you should have the right to also. Head up, and don't look back, unless he does backflips to get you back.


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi everyone, just to provide an update for anyone else going through this thing. We are working on getting back together. We’ve started couples therapy. I’m blaming myself less and recognize it’s a 50/50 problem. He is sorta working on his anger issues... ish. Divorce is on hold. We’re selling the house still (I don’t want to go back there anymore and neither does he) and still living separately. We spend several weekdays together and every weekend.
It’s progress. Slow progress, but something


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Cars, I am so glad to hear that,at least it is moving in the right direction. I hope the New Years brings you both together forever....is the therapy working ?


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## Crs2918 (Aug 9, 2020)

Thank you! We had our first session last week and the next one is tomorrow. So far the therapist is gentle, but very intuitive and insightful!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Good luck. I worry that you are with a man that doesn’t value you enough, but sounds like a lot of hurtful stuff occurred. 
Don’t chase. Prepare for a life without him. If he chooses to stay, I suggest you create a totally new life together and moving to a new home isn’t a bad idea.
Glad you’re feeling better.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Crs2918 said:


> Hi everyone, just to provide an update for anyone else going through this thing. We are working on getting back together. We’ve started couples therapy. I’m blaming myself less and recognize it’s a 50/50 problem. He is sorta working on his anger issues... ish. Divorce is on hold. We’re selling the house still (I don’t want to go back there anymore and neither does he) and still living separately. We spend several weekdays together and every weekend.
> It’s progress. Slow progress, but something


You guys are like a unicorn. I hope you both realize what a rare chance this is and both don't blow it.


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