# Self righteous resentment



## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

In another thread, the discussion began to turn on resentment in the marriage.

Usually in troubled marriages one, often both, of the spouses are nursing resentment against the other. There is, minimally, the perception by one that the other is shirking in one way or another. Often the marriage descends into a state where each is accusing the other.

In the other thread, the issue was the lack of sex in marriage, usually a complaint by the husband against the wife. The husband resents the wife's lack of interest in sex.

I pointed out that very often the wife doesn't want to be intimate with the husband because she, herself, is resentful, usually because the husband is not pulling his weight around the house. Add to that the conviction, among many wives, that "times have changed" and so any man who doesn't carry his weight is a male chauvinist pig undeserving of any warmth or compassion.

While the above represent the most common examples, there are many more. What they all have in common is the human tendency to blame the other for our troubles. We are right, they are wrong, and anything we do is justified including having an affair or filing for divorce or just checking out and waiting for the other to take that step.

And feelings are lost ("I'm not in love anymore") then it hardly seems worth it to give up self righteousness. At least I have my dignity, people will say to themselves as they walk into the divorce attorney's office.

The antidote to self righteous resentment is to set aside pride and treat the marriage as a work in progress. Of course, it helps to recognize your own faults and to concentrate on them first. But very often spouses fail to take the initiative preferring, instead, a passive position until things fall to pieces and divorce seems inevitable.

Have I got that about right?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

This is why I like His Needs Her Needs as it gets the couple talking and they get to decide where it goes form there. 

No book is perfect. And indeed both spouses have to want to work it out.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think you've got it about right, for many or most couples who experience this. Some of these relationships are fixable if dealt with in time, and some may not be fixable or even worth the attempt - I guess that depends on many things.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

The problem is that it requires the participation of both people. Very often one isn't willing to work on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> The problem is that it requires the participation of both people. Very often one isn't willing to work on it.


I disagree. Often when one spouse makes an effort on their own end it sets a tone for the other to follow. And since nobody is ever innocent, there is always room to improve yourself and your own attitude toward the marriage.

Waiting for a mutual agreement to set aside resentment is almost certainly destined to fail. Which, I suppose, is why I see so many here jumping straight to recommending divorce.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

Lol...I didn't say that one person can't "start" working on the issue but solving problems in marriage at whatever point you feel like conviently describing it requires BOTH people... Period.


And there are people who will literally never participate...sometimes due to outside factors...religion, their family, personality disorders, drug/alcohol dependence.

I get that this is the normal way you "debate" (and I use the term lightly) because you're trying to pimp your book and website and have every woman with her capon husband being unemployed in a gimp mask. But its complete bull crap to suggest one person can fix a marriage if the other person doesn't cooperate.

Why do I bother to respond to your stupid threads???? (Kicking myself)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> Lol...I didn't say that one person can't "start" working on the issue but solving problems in marriage at whatever point you feel like conviently describing it requires BOTH people... Period.
> 
> And there are people who will literally never participate...sometimes due to outside factors...religion, their family, personality disorders, drug/alcohol dependence.


So we agree, one person can start. And that may lead to the other joining.

And, yes, there will be those who refuse to do their part no matter what.

The problem I have seen here is that so many are very quick to assume a lost cause that they refuse even to recommend trying. I see phrases like "people don't change that much" which indicate no desire even to try.

Much easier to just nurse your self righteousness.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

It's a shame we don't have a dislike button to push.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> So we agree, one person can start. And that may lead to the other joining.
> 
> And, yes, there will be those who refuse to do their part no matter what.
> 
> ...


No we don't agree on your premise at all.

As I said, it takes two people to fix a broken relationship and even then, some aren't fixable.

I don't think anyone recommends divorce lightly here. Nor do I know anyone who's gotten divorce that didn't agonize over the decision.

Again your motivations are...as usual...very evident. And you referring to other people's advice as self-righteous is laughable. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ladymisato said:


> So we agree, one person can start. And that may lead to the other joining.
> 
> And, yes, there will be those who refuse to do their part no matter what.
> 
> ...


Those people are speaking from experience with a spouse who refuses to do their part. 

Why do you assume they haven't already tried everything under the sun to get their spouse to hear them? 

Resentments don't develop after a day or two of trying. It's usually been years of what some people like to call communicating and those who don't listen like to call nagging.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

norajane said:


> Those people are speaking from experience with a spouse who refuses to do their part.


I assume everyone her is speaking based on their own experience. As am I.



> Why do you assume they haven't already tried everything under the sun to get their spouse to hear them?


I think you misunderstood. What I'm referring to are those who respond to an OP with advice to divorce. Maybe they tried everything in their own marriage. Maybe not. But they are certainly not telling the OP what to try.



> Resentments don't develop after a day or two of trying. It's usually been years of what some people like to call communicating and those who don't listen like to call nagging.


Resentment builds over time. It takes time to restore trust and repair the marriage. Communication is certainly part of that but nagging, assuming that the problem is the spouse, is the worst sort.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> I don't think anyone recommends divorce lightly here. Nor do I know anyone who's gotten divorce that didn't agonize over the decision.


Lightly? Perhaps not. Quickly? Most definitely.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Nikita2270 said:


> Lol...I didn't say that one person can't "start" working on the issue but solving problems in marriage at whatever point you feel like conviently describing it requires BOTH people... Period.
> 
> 
> And there are people who will literally never participate...sometimes due to outside factors...religion, their family, personality disorders, drug/alcohol dependence.
> ...


Maybe you shouldn't when you have only this to offer?

I don't think the OP was suggesting that one person can fix a marriage. Only that maybe someone starts the process.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ladymisato said:


> I disagree. Often when one spouse makes an effort on their own end it sets a tone for the other to follow. And since nobody is ever innocent, there is always room to improve yourself and your own attitude toward the marriage.
> 
> Waiting for a mutual agreement to set aside resentment is almost certainly destined to fail. Which, I suppose, is why I see so many here jumping straight to recommending divorce.


I agree that one person can make unilateral changes in the marriage and thus positively change the other's behavior/outlook and thus the marriage.

In the scenarios you brought up, each is paying "uncle" waiting for the other to make the first move to give up the game. Usually neither does because they feel so righteous about their position. But it only takes one to change things.

The book "Divorce Busting" is very much about this topic. There is also a lot in the Marriage Builders material about one spouse just starting working on themselves and becoming a better spouse and the other will most likely give up their part of the no longer existent 'uncle' game. It takes 2 to play "uncle" after all.

At some point the idea of mutual agreement, discussing needs, etc can some into play. But it's best if the anger and resentment can first be defused.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Lightly? Perhaps not. Quickly? Most definitely.


Disagree. Almost every post first starts out with counselling suggestions if it hasn't been attempted.

I would describe "self-righteousness" as making the assumption that...with zero professional training... you think everyone else gets divorced without enough introspection and that you could fix their marriage.

People give advice here and if everyone else's is flawed...so is yours. You aren't in a superior position to make judgment calls about people recommending potential divorce because you've got your unemployed husband crawling around on the floor with clothespins on his nips calling you "mistress."

Divorce may sometimes be the most viable option to someone finding happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I tried to fix my first marriage for a very long time, and tired many things and many MCs to no avail. 

Looking back, I have to say now that I'm completely thrilled that my efforts failed! That meant I decided to divorce, which led to a new relationship that far exceeds anything the prior one ever was or could be. I learned from past mistakes and applied that knowledge. I could also see that my prior relationship never had the potential I expected going into it.

I would say that if you can't even envision or imagine a positive and fulfilling long term relationship with your current partner if enough issues are resolved satisfactorily, don't waste the time and effort trying to fix them.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> I tried to fix my first marriage for a very long time, and tired many things and many MCs to no avail.
> 
> Looking back, I have to say now that I'm completely thrilled that my efforts failed! That meant I decided to divorce, which led to a new relationship that far exceeds anything the prior one ever was or could be. I learned from past mistakes and applied that knowledge. I could also see that my prior relationship never had the potential I expected going into it.
> 
> I would say that if you can't even envision or imagine a positive and fulfilling long term relationship with your current partner if enough issues are resolved satisfactorily, don't waste the time and effort trying to fix them.


Excellent post and I thoroughly agree.

I think a lot of people end up regretting that they didn't divorce sooner given the parameters of their conflict. So what you get in this forum is posters who've been in similar disfunctional marriages with similar personality types who give the advice they do because they've already lived through it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Nikita2270 said:


> The problem is that it requires the participation of both people. Very often one isn't willing to work on it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So true!

Been there. You can try till you're blue in the face, but you simply can't save a marriage on your own.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Nikita2270 said:


> I think a lot of people end up regretting that they didn't divorce sooner given the parameters of their conflict. So what you get in this forum is posters who've been in similar disfunctional marriages with similar personality types who give the advice they do because they've already lived through it.


And there you have, in a nutshell, the very thing you previously denied. Thanks for being honest.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Yeah, I sometimes give that advise to divorce (not too many so far, as I am new here) - sometimes people give you engough details to see that this is going nowhere. Some people like it sugarcoated, some want to hear what you really think. 

What I've noticed, that you lightly and naively encourage people to stay in patological relationship (like Big Mama). Your advise to do that is not better than my advise for her to run as fast as she can.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> Yeah, I sometimes give that advise to divorce (not too many so far, as I am new here) - sometimes people give you engough details to see that this is going nowhere. Some people like it sugarcoated, some want to hear what you really think.
> 
> What I've noticed, that you lightly and naively encourage people to stay in patological relationship (like Big Mama). Your advise to do that is not better than my advise for her to run as fast as she can.


If you have not read ladymisato's original thread it would be a big eye opener. It explains a lot.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/211954-wife-led-marriage.html


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Yeah, I sometimes give that advise to divorce (not too many so far, as I am new here) - sometimes people give you engough details to see that this is going nowhere. Some people like it sugarcoated, some want to hear what you really think.
> 
> What I've noticed, that you lightly and naively encourage people to stay in patological relationship (like Big Mama). Your advise to do that is not better than my advise for her to run as fast as she can.


Here is the crucial difference, though: you can try an fix a marriage and then give up and get a divorce. You can't get a divorce and then try to fix a marriage. I'm sorry if that sounds blunt but sometimes people need to stop and think.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> If you have not read ladymisato's original thread it would be a big eye opener. It explains a lot.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/211954-wife-led-marriage.html


There are lots of ways to try to address problems in a marriage. Wife led marriage is, of course, my preferred approach but it's not for everyone.

But it's simply wrong for a wife to say she's tried everything to repair the marriage until she's tried taking the lead.


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