# Wife is going to leave because of my daughter



## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Well the title says a lot of this story but there is more to it than that, but some brief background.

I met my wife in Turkey, she is Turkish, on business. At the time I was in a dead marriage with two girls aged 2 and 5. As soon as I saw her I was hooked and really felt like taking it further but I was married, she was thousands of miles away etc. Then she came to see me ostensibly to talk about business but really because she liked me. She didn't know I was married at the time. To cut a long story short I knew that I loved this woman, almost love at first sight and vice versa. Within a year I was divorced and then married and my new wife came to live with me in the UK. Our courting period was the stuff of fairly tales, I flew to Turkey 15 times in 6 months to be with her. Once back in the UK though it all started to go wrong.

Although she speaks fluent English she had huge difficulties in making herself understood or understanding others. She couldn't get a job for a while and was very homesick. She used to come with me on business everywhere and we still had a great time but I knew she wasn't happy. She found my mum and dad emotionally cold (compared to her Turkish family at least), she had difficulties keeping her jobs, didn't make any English friends and only a few Turkish ones. She got on brilliantly with my two daughters and treated them like her own and they loved her too.

There were many arguments over the years, many of them were down to missunderstandings due to the language problem, cultural differences etc. For my part I don't think I took her seriously enough, she was well eductated with an engineering degree from the top university in Turkey and couldn't understand why all the big companies weren't begging her to come and work for them.

This went on until our son was born in 2004. He was fantastic, a brilliant beautiful little boy. However it wasn't long before we argued about him, I believe that children should follow routines, for meal times, bed times, etc. She however believed that he could do want he wanted, go to bed when he felt like it. Even today at 6 years old he often doesn't go to bed until 10pm, sometimes later. 

Then about 4 years ago she persuded me to give up my fantastic job as international sales manager £40K + and in line for a promotion to director, in order to start our own business. I can't say what we do but it is something we both enjoy. unfortunately my wife had the idea only, she has none of the technical or IT skilss required to develop the business and because of the language issue she is not comfortable speaking on the phone, so basically I built it up and she did some work. She wanted me to teach her how to build the website but I told her that to do that would delay our business startup for months and I could not do both jobs at the same time, basically she felt rejected by me and I didn't handle that well.

Then a couple of years ago I noticed that we were having sex far less frequently, maybe only once a month and we often fighting. This should have been a clue but I ignored it. Early in 2009 we got a neighbour to come and help part time. This was my wife's idea but she soon decided she disliked the neighbour because in her words "she is coming on to you" meaning she is attracted to you and wants you. This was absurd, we were very chatty that's all but I am like that with everyone, my wife however will work in silence for hours. In the end she fired this woman after lots of arguments between us about it. 

Then things were starting to improve and we were making a real effort when last November my ex-wife decided she could no longer tolerate my 14 year old daughter and she was dumped on our doorstep without warning one Sunday evening.

I told my wife we'd work out a way to cope but she was in shock. Her first reaction was to throw away her contraceptive pills. She then could no longer tell me that she loved me. She blamed my daughter being dumped on us as my fault because apparently I had told her to stick up for herself and not be pushed around by her mothers's useless boyfriend (no job for 20 years, benefit scrounger). I utterly rejected this argument and I was pleased that my daughter had not been walked all over by this idiot. 

Things went from bad to worse, we have a small two bedroom house and so now our son has to share with my daughter. My wife at first did make an effort to help my daughter with homework, taking her out to meet her boyfriend and for shopping but this was not very often and eventually it would end in a fight usually because my daughter will tend to answer back all the time despite my warnings. 

In the meantime my wife found Facebook and became good friends with a painter from Belgium. He is 14 years her senior and I thought they were just friends. After some time I discovered that she was speaking to him all the time and although it was never emotional or personal it was very spiritual and they obviously have a close link. I knew all this because suspecting something was going on I installed a keylogger to the computer and although I felt very guilty intruding on her privacy I had to know what was going on, my family's future depended on it. At one point she wrote to him "I have to see you as soon as possible, can we meet?". His reply was something enigmatic like
"We will meet, but not yet". She recently had a portrait done at a photography studio, ostensibly for her new business she wishes to start, but it immediatly got uploaded as her profile picture, this I believe was to impress this painter. Everytime she goes on Facebook the first thing she does is go to his wall or read her messages from him. If we go out immediatly on comiing home, often even before she takes off her coat she will check if she has any messages from him. To me this activity is far more than just a casual friend on Facebook and borders on the obsessive or of course love, which is perhaps the ultimate obsession. I have confonted her with this and of course she totally denies it.

She has now said she is going to leave and take my son with her. She wants to remain friends and I have complete access to him. We will also remain business partners. She says that she cannot live in the same house as my daughter and will only come back when she has gone to university in about 3 years. She believes that we may be able to regain our affection for each other this way otherwise there will be no chance for us. The problem is we don't have any money and she can't leave without money so it has to remain like this for the next 5 -7 months at least. In the meantime she is buying little things for her new home which i find hurtful. I really wanted to resolve this, to work together to find a solution. I have changed, i work from 9 am until 2 am most days, I do most of the housework and take the kids to school. My wife will hardly even acknowledge my daughter's presence and is completely cold and indifferent to me, I am sure she would not care if I were dead. She will not allow my daughter to bring her boyfriend to the house or even the garden which causes huge resentment from my daughter. She has no real reasons for this, she just doesn't want her to bring any teenage boy to the house.

I wonder then if any of you think this situation is retrievable? My wife does not want to go to councelling.Her favourite phrase is "you gave me 9 years of hell". This also does not make sense because up until 2 years ago we wrote a diary together, she would tell me how much she loved me and that she was so sorry she hadn't made me happy over the years but how she was married to the most fantastic husband on the planet etc etc. Now apparently everything was my fault, I confronted her with the diary and said "how can you say 9 years of hell when in your own words it was you who was hurting me?", she has no answer for this.

I am wondering if she has a pyschological illness? I just don't know what to do now. Should I just let her go easily and try to be friends together or is there another way around this in the time we have left together? Does she need medical help? Any ideas or comments would be helpful. 

Sorry, it turned out to be a lot longer than I envisaged.

Thanks for reading.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

WOW! Does anything make your wife happy? She needs counseling. It sounds as though your daughter is a convenient excuse for your wife to leave. I know this is a dilemma; you can't exactly turn your back on your daughter either.

Hope you find a workable solution.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Thank you for your reply, I agree she needs counselling but she won't go. Apparently she believes she is absolutely in the right and everyone else is wrong. She has managed to convince her mother of the same, unfortunately her mum does not speak English and my Turkish is too poor to explain the problems from my point of view, so the one person who could have been my champion is unreachable, I get on very well with her mum and sister (her dad died many years ago) and consider them my family and I know they are both very upset by everything too.

I am trying the 180 approach but toned down a bit because she has not been adulterous. So for example I am trying to make myself an interesting person to be around, I've joined an astronomy society and she does ask me about it, it is an area we are both interested in. I try not to be too enthusiastic and never mention the future unless she does. It is very difficult to judge what to do or say so I guess I will try to be myself and hope that's enough.

After a year of no intimacy, 13 months actually, I already feel we have separated and just share work and a place to sleep. I just hope she comes to her senses. She is pre-menopausal and there are signs this could be beginning (early at 44 but not uncommon), I have read that this can change a woman's psychological make up to some extent.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

It sounds like she has emotionally left the marriage quite some time ago. I agree, it's not the daughter. She is unhappy with herself and thinks this painter guy is the answer. Which of course, it isn't. The running to facebook thing is a huge red flag.

You might want to check out the marriage builder site for suggestions. They have lots of info on infidelity. Although she hasn't been physically unfaithful, she is having an emotional affair with someone else. 

I'm so sorry. This is not fair to you or your son or your daughter. This is pure selfishness on her part.

My suggestion is to find a a good bible believing fellowship and get plugged in. Prayer and following God's lead in regard to marriage will be a powerful resource for you and your mental well being. It will also help your daughter to learn that she is loved by the Creator, it will give her purpose and direction. You need strength and support. Learning how to be a spouse with God's direction will give you answers.

Your wife has basically deserted you. I don't know if you can interest her back at this point but if she were to learn how getting involved in sin, you become a slave to it and it will only lead to misery. It might sink in.

It might not but at least you will have something, solid rock to to stand on and to guide you. I would be a wreck right now without the support I get by leaning on Jesus. Praying for you and your family.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Quantumfilament, if you are doing the 180 did you look at Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce ?

Based on Applepies response, if you don’t mind me asking is your wife Muslim and what is your religion? Not saying religion has anything to do with where you are at and although Turkey is a country of 100 million Muslims they do have Christians as well.

Bob


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Thank you both for your replies.

To answer the question, no she is not Muslim, neither of us are religious although she is spiritual, always looking for answers to what happens in the next life, is there a next life etc.

I know in the past I could have been more helpful around the house, I could have been more understanding of her home sickness, I tend to be a bit arrogant and a know it all, but I always loved her, always enjoyed doing things for her. When we went on holidays it was always to Turkey so that she could also see her family, I dreamed of taking her all over the world to see the sights I have been fortunate enough to see, but with limited holidays and finances it was almost always Turkey once a year, I felt that she could never really leave her family behind and start enjoying life with her new family, we were always tied to Turkey and I understood that although it depressed me somewhat. It doesn't matter what I do or say she is always right and when we have argued in the past it was almost always me that apologised and made up, I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times she said sorry to me over the years.

Last few days there have been no arguments and I am just following the 180, it isn't easy but perhaps because I've had a year to get used to the lack of intimacy it is easier for me than if I had just found out yesterday that she was having an real affair.

I sent a message to the painter on Facebook. I said to him that I wanted to send him an email but needed to know if I could trust him not to speak to my wife. So far after three days I have had no reply. I noticed as well that he is no longer sending many messages to her, simply answering her messages if she sends one but with nowhere near as much detail as previously, do think I may have scared him off?

Thanks again for your time to reply.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

I like the contacting the painter, good for you! Sounds like it had an affect. If she loses that source of self esteem, she may start involving herself in the marriage.

What is the 180?


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Applepies! 

Yes, definitely less being communicated now, that was my hope too that she would start to wake up and clear away the fog. Today we agreed to sort out finances so she can leave. This will happen in a few months time so still plenty of time to recover it if she wants. However I am now so tired of this after 1 year of misery that to be honest I am starting to look forward to her going. I still love her but I don't like her very much at the moment. I feel we do need time apart but not as long as she says, she is talking about years and still says that she won't come back until my daughter has gone to uni or got her own place. I told her today that she is no longer my main priority (my wife), my daughters and son are now number one and if she is honestly saying that she won't come back until my daughter has left then I told her, in that case you will not come back because my daughter is staying here for as long as she wants. Also I told her that as we are now effectively single there is always the chance that I could meet someone new in the next year and then the whole picture could change, i may not want her back even if she so desires it. 

So basically I have now shifted the decision making process completely over to her. She is no longer waiting for me to accept it, I have done that, it is now up to her to put up or shut up, leave or stay. I am hoping with the lack of attention from the painter, and the enormity of the situation she is getting herself into she will have second thoughts. But, if she does decide to stay in the next few months then she will be in for a shock. At that time I expect I will tell her something like, "well I'm sorry, I had gotten used to the idea of you leaving and I do not want to live in a loveless relationship. If you want to stay then that means you have to work at rebuilding our marriage, otherwise you may as well be a lodger here." 

That's how I feel at the moment anyway.

The 180, here is a link and there's lots more online.

Marriage Builders® Discussion Forums: Divorce busting 180 degree list


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Wow! I can imagine her confusion at your 180 along with the lack of interest from the facebook guy. I would be thinking why am I doing all this? All of a sudden neither is acting too interested in what I want...I'm praying that she realizes what she is thinking of throwing away. 

I think it's cool that you are sticking up for your daughter.  Sort of the same thing happened to us, his exwife dumped their daughters on us. They were 15 and 16 at the time. She left town and all of a sudden, they were here full time. I did everything I could to make them feel welcome. I felt so bad for them at what their Mother had done. That has got to be hard on a kid. I can't imagine ever deserting my daughter, I love her to pieces. I get along well with the younger one. The older one...some issues but I accepted she doesn't like me and don't try to push it. Just let her have her space and be supportive when the opportunity came up.

A teen girl can be difficult, they can be sassy and whatnot. I got the book Stepmonster to help me understand my role as stepmother and it helped me be ok if my stepdaughter didn't like me and how to deal with conflicts.

The 180 list sounds good, I don't suppose begging and pleading are ever good ways to go about things. lol


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Quantumfilament said:


> Thanks Applepies!
> 
> Yes, definitely less being communicated now, that was my hope too that she would start to wake up and clear away the fog. Today we agreed to sort out finances so she can leave. This will happen in a few months time so still plenty of time to recover it if she wants. However I am now so tired of this after 1 year of misery that to be honest I am starting to look forward to her going. I still love her but I don't like her very much at the moment. I feel we do need time apart but not as long as she says, she is talking about years and still says that she won't come back until my daughter has gone to uni or got her own place. I told her today that she is no longer my main priority (my wife), my daughters and son are now number one and if she is honestly saying that she won't come back until my daughter has left then I told her, in that case you will not come back because my daughter is staying here for as long as she wants. Also I told her that as we are now effectively single there is always the chance that I could meet someone new in the next year and then the whole picture could change, i may not want her back even if she so desires it.
> 
> ...


I find it absolutely amazing how a DS plans to keep the LS as a backup in case things go wrong. Absolutely jaw dropping amazing. Yours is planning years ahead. “I’ll come back in 5 years time when your daughters left home”.

I wonder how these DSs think of themselves?

What on earth is in their mind about what marriage, a life partnership is all about?

Something they can willy-nilly, at a whim hop out of and back into?

A base with all home comforts from which to have affairs?

Do they truly see the LS as a person to be “used”.

Sounds to me Quantumfilament that you are going the right way about things. There’s a thread on the http://talkaboutmarriage.com/self-help-marriage-relationship-programs/18671-180.html.

Bob


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Applepies said:


> Wow! I can imagine her confusion at your 180 along with the lack of interest from the facebook guy. I would be thinking why am I doing all this? All of a sudden neither is acting too interested in what I want...I'm praying that she realizes what she is thinking of throwing away.
> 
> I think it's cool that you are sticking up for your daughter.  Sort of the same thing happened to us, his exwife dumped their daughters on us. They were 15 and 16 at the time. She left town and all of a sudden, they were here full time. I did everything I could to make them feel welcome. I felt so bad for them at what their Mother had done. That has got to be hard on a kid. I can't imagine ever deserting my daughter, I love her to pieces. I get along well with the younger one. The older one...some issues but I accepted she doesn't like me and don't try to push it. Just let her have her space and be supportive when the opportunity came up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Applepies, interesting that you had a similar experience but handled it in a far more mature and adult way, shame my wife is not a little bit more like you instead of the selfish person she has turned out to be. I tried to talk to her today about something my daughter had done well and she told me she is not interested in anything to do with her, I said to her "how can you be like that? You helped raise her for the last 9 years and now you just turn your back on her!" Then she says it is because of the backchat and disrespect she has shown her, I tell her that is irrelevant, she is a teenage girl and they are all like it, my daughter is no different to any of the rest of them. Anyhow it made no difference and I didn't want an argument. I just thought it was interesting to see how she is slowly but surely shutting out everyone in her life, first it was our neighbour, then her Turkish friend, then me and my mum and dad, now my daughter, soon the only people she will have left are her mum and sister and our son. She is going to grow old alone and miserable with only Facebook for company, it is staring her in the face but she is too blind to see the obvious reality and I am too far past caring to mention it to her.

She wrote to the painter today, the usual stuff, nothing too personal, his reply was completely flat, no emotion whatsoever. I don't think he wants to lose contact with her but my guess is he knows he is being monitored and doesn't want any trouble. The ironic think is I really don't care any more, they can talk all they like, I am already planning my own future with my children without her, as I said before she is no longer my priority or concern unless she does a 180 and comes to her senses.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I find it absolutely amazing how a DS plans to keep the LS as a backup in case things go wrong. Absolutely jaw dropping amazing. Yours is planning years ahead. “I’ll come back in 5 years time when your daughters left home”.
> 
> I wonder how these DSs think of themselves?
> 
> ...


Thanks Bob for the support, it is amazing isn't it, almost like they are living in some sort of personal fantasy, unfortunately by the time they snap out of it, it's too late. Thanks for the link.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

We are all familiar with the old saying which goes something like this......"Be careful what you wish for because it just might come true". I guess your wife is getting what she wished for. lol I'm glad you are handling this situation so well. I really think you and the children will greatly benefit from your actions.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Not to be a nag, lol, but I still think getting plugged into a bible believing church would be such a blessing to all of you. Your wife has this huge hole in her heart she is trying to fill with all sorts of nonsense. She is so lost. We spend our lives trying to fill up the emptiness in us with so many distractions, some healthy, some not so much. 

You have a little boy together, I think it would be worth it, for him, to try to pull this together somehow...I've seen miraculous things done for families on the brink. You're hurting, she's hurting, why not take a chance and let God in? 

Ok, I'll shut up now.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Applepies, you are very sweet. That was the nicest way I have ever been asked to let God into my life. Unfortunately I am a scientist and engineer and although raised as a Christian it wasn't long before my mum and dad were asked to not bring me to Sunday school any more because of all the awkward questions i would ask. I would not go so far as to say there is no God, but if there is, I can't see for a minute that he/she/it would take the slightest interest in an insignificant lifeform on an insignificant planet in the back edge of an average galaxy in the middle of an almost infinite universe. Let's face it there are millions of people far worse off than me with my little problems and they do believe in God but they don't get any help do they, I mean where was God during the holocaust?

Still I follow the Christian values and the morals are mostly spot on, if everyone could at least do that the world would be a better place IMO.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Thank you for sharing that. That's funny to think about you in Sunday school asking, but why? And how? No way, come on, how could that work. And the teachers going oy vey.

I can see that you are a very smart person.

Usually when someone is analytical and likes definite proof, I point the dead sea scrolls that are proven to be in existence as of 400 B.C. The book of Isaiah has prophecy after prophecy regarding the life of Christ, prophecies that happened 400 years later. It's freaky awesome how specific those prophecies are, especially Isaiah 52, I believe that's the chapter.

I have a group of friends that enjoy prophecy, especially things happening in the world and how it's lining up with Matthew 24, watching for Revelations and the 'mark' no man will buy or sell without it and it will be in the hand or the forehead, a chip perhaps? We also have Daniel and the AC prophecies, the 10 world nations, the resurgance of Rome (the EU was a big sign) and keeping an eye on Israel (all nations will turn against her, gog and magog prophecies). It's amazing to see it all falling into place.

Yes, I know. I'm weird.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

You're not weird, is it any more weird to believe that every particle in the universe is governed by probabilities as quantum physics describes? (now you know where my user name comes from). I am pleased that your beliefs give you strength, I gain my strength from a different set of beliefs, I believe everything in the universe is connected at the fundamental level and that time and space and the power of thought are all one in some as yet unexplained way, you could call that God I suppose, I am sure there must be a bigger picture and my method of investigation just happens to be science. I would imagine in years to come, perhaps not in our lifetimes, but sometime soon there will be a merging of mind, spirit and reality as the true nature of the universe is unveiled by the ceaseless probing of human curiosity. This gives me great strength, I feel small on the grandest of scales but I also feel a wonder that we have evolved to a point where our minds are beginning to comprehend something as vast and complex as the cosmos.

I hope your strength of belief helps you come through your other issues that we discussed, I am sure it will stand you in good stead and help you make the best decisions for your future.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

That's neat..."Imerging of mind, spirit and reality" think that is what will happen in heaven. 

I want to share this, it's pretty neat:

File:M51 whirlpool galaxy black hole.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Isn't that something? In the center of a black hole. 

My dh used to talk about how this earth was created, that it's a whole mish mash of stars mixed together. That gold was previously a separate star. I just think that is cool.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

This is another really cool event, as a scientist, you might find this pretty amazing...

Laminin – The Glue That Holds Us Together | There is Power in Prayer through Yeshua Ha’ Mashiach!

Sorry to bombard you, I just am so psyched over this sort of thing.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks for the links Applepies, that was nice of you.

Ironically a black hole is about as close to hell as you're likely to get. Temperatures in the accretion disc of over 100 million degrees, your body is spaghettified (really that is the technical term) as you approach the event horizon and once inside time stops as you hang over the edge of the black hole for all eternity.

I like to remember that famous line, the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine.

In the meantime things are nice and quiet here. I have finally accepted that she is going and she knows I have accepted it, this has defused the whole situation and strangely I quite suddenly feel much better about everything. I am starting to look forward to life being single again. I gave her my wedding ring and told her to give it me back if ever she wanted to try again or if not to sell it and put the money into our son's trust fund. I feel lighter now, and happier, if she starts an argument I just walk away and really don't care what she has to say. Her mum is still giving her grief about everything but that's about it. It's up to her now, as far as I'm concerned I am single, the marriage is merely a bit of paper that means nothing now, a simple formality waiting to be declared null and void when we're ready. 

I think if she changed back now into the loving caring wife she used to be I would be willing to give it another go, but i can clearly see as time goes by that I will feel less and less like it.

Hope you are feeling better too. Post on your thread how things are going.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

:smthumbup: Good, sometimes that waiting for the shoe to drop feeling can get old. It can be freeing to finally take control of the situation and say, it's done, resolved, now I can start planning again. You've been through a lot over the months, I don't think I could of stayed strong for that long.


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## enigmaguy (Nov 24, 2010)

Hello mate,

I'm a bit late to this,but a quick reply just in case.

You are doing the absolute right thing, IMO. I enduring the SAME trial. My wife was restless, cold, detached, and my personality seems very similar to yours. If I read you, you have a bit of impatience, maybe prone a moderate amount of hotheadedness from time to time. You have a guilt complex and a need to fix things, so you mostly take the blame for things and are always the one to approach her to apologize and try to smooth things over. If I have you wrong, I really do apologize in advance.
If I am remotely on target, however, you have to understand that this is not your fault. It is a natural human reaction to respond aggressively to this detached, negligent, cold woman who is supposed to love and nurture you. Doesn't mean it is RIGHT to respond in that way, but you nevertheless should give up on feeling like the bad guy just because you have a had a few weak moments. I think you already know all that, since you are behaving in such a productive way.
From my experience, the other guy was actually by best friend (not a painter on facebook). It was torture but I let go, finally. It was the best thing to ever happen to me. 10 years of marriage gone - that was a tough concept for me. But now I am with a woman who does love and respect and nurture me. When I have caveman moments of pigheadedness she calls me on it but understands it was harmless. 

In any case, your wife is ill and unhappy. You could make the choice to work with her and help her through it (if possible). But in this case your children need you, especially your 14 year old. You can't support them both emotionally right now.

Best of luck.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

enigmaguy said:


> Hello mate,
> 
> But in this case your children need you, especially your 14 year old. You can't support them both emotionally right now.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thank you Enigmaguy for your support, it is most welcome. I can be hot headed but generally I didn't feel guilty, I just wanted to smooth things over because life's too short. Anyway, your last point is very true, i cannot support them both and My daughter definitely takes priority.

I have now accepted the fact she is going and began distancing myself from her and her activities, moving on with my own life and starting to enjoy my time again. She still comes out with truly infantile statements to which I reply calmly and coldy being careful not to be provoked. An example was last Sunday, my daughters and my son and I were going out to the countryside for a drive and lunch out somewhere. My eldest daughter said she may not go because she wasn't feeling too well. My so called wife then said to me, if she isn't going then I'll come with you, to which I replied, oh no, it doesn't work like that, you can come if you like but not because my daughter isn't going, i won't accept any kind of black mail from you or anyone, I am going out for the day and there are 5 seats in the car, if anyone wants to go so be it but i intend to enjoy myself today. In the end my daughter did come and my wife stayed at home with my son who doesn't like going out without his mum, he's a bit of a mummy's boy but he's only 6 so no worries there yet.

Yesterday she started complaining that my daughter had made a bit of a mess, I said, oh dear what has she done this time? It was nothing much and I told my wife i didn't care and either she or I could clear it up or wait for my daughter to come home from school to do it, then she started going on about how she has paid into the mortgage on this house and now she has to leave because of my daughter, I simply told her, no, you are leaving because of your own stupidity and stubbornness and to be honest I'll be glad when you do go. I think this shocked her a bit as she shut up then and didn't complain any more.

Still, watch this space, as i said before whilst she still lives here I am willing to give it another go, but she has to change, not me, and if she does leave that's it, as far as I'm concerned it's game over man.

I'm through taking this crap for over a year and I don't care honestly what she does next, my only concern is my son's well being when she goes, and if she shows any signs of jeopardising that then she will have real problems on her hands in the form of a custody battle.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

I have to say 'oh brother' on the mess. Teens are messy, they are forgetful of leaving stuff around, but I've found they are pretty good about picking up when you ask them to get their stuff. I can remember getting annoyed if it was really bad but didn't think any more on it than, hey can you grab your things or clean up the kitchen? Not a big deal. It's nothing out of the ordinary.

Glad you aren't taking the bait.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

That's exactly it, I am not taking the bait. In fact yesterday we had another bust up, it was like ground hog day, the same old problems and her blaming my daughter. Later I told her I was sorry if I said anything to hurt her, that was not my intention and she said likewise. I then told her that whilst she was still here there is a chance we can rebuild the marriage if she wants to, I would be willing to give it another go. She said no, she needs her space and time to find herself again and as previously mentioned would return perhaps if we can find our romance again and if my daughter was gone. So this time I laid it on the line for her. I told her this is not acceptable to me. I said you can't just leave and come back into a marriage when it is convenient for you and leave me hanging like a worm on a hook. If you leave, that's it, it's over and after the necessary waiting period (2 years in the UK) we can get divorced, the door only opens one way, I will not accept being left in a limbo waiting for you to decide what you want. I told her, so you need to think very carefully about your next steps, if you walk out of that door you walk out of my life, for good. Of course we can remain friends and perhaps continue to work together, but as a romantic concern it's over.

She seemed quite upset about this and went storming off into the house and up to the bedroom. She was lying on the bed looking very miserable when I came into the room and told me she didn't want to talk, i think she had been crying.

So now her "Get out of jail free card" has been revoked, I guess she always thought she could just waltz back here whenever she felt like it if things got too tough or if, major doubt, she discovered she still loved me. Her fantasy bubble has been popped and now she knows that when she goes that's it.

Next move is again hers.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

What is the relationship between your dd and dw? I mean, do they pretty much ignore each other?

The reason I ask is that kids don't have any say in a parent remarrying but they do hold a lot of power over the success or failure of the marriage. My two stepdaughters, one is very loving kind and easy going. The other is very self absorbed and tends to mirror her father.

I remember the troubled one talking to her dad out front, I listened in. Dad, I just hate her. I know but we just have to find a way for us to get along.

What she did was passive agressive actions around the house, like move things around in the kitchen. Pull up the blinds in every window in the house, everyday, and I'd have to pull them down at night. Annoying. Leave clothes constantly in the washer.

I'd put things back, pull blinds, throw clothes in the dryer but never addressed these things with her. Just sigh, and put things to right. But it was her way of expressing her anger at me.

I took Daddy away. She had gotten used to having him all to herself. We finally came up with an uneasy truce. Stayed out of each other's way. Occasional friendlyness towards each other but never comfortable. 

What is your daughter's behavior? Does she hear the things your wife says?


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

basically there is no relationship between them now. My dd was mortified when kicked out by her biological mum and that manifested itself in some odd behavoir which has since passed. Other than that she is a typical teenager, doing well at school, her teachers think she is a model student. OK so she's messy, a bit untidy, forgetful and sometimes has a bit of lip, but nothing major. My wife actually seriously dislikes her and she has more or less told her that. So they do not speak.

My wife has no ability to understand or comprehend how difficult it was for dd and also how difficult teenage years are in general. She acts like a self centred and narcissistic individual who cares about no-one except her son.

Since i told her that she would not be welcome back she has started being really quite nasty, comments about everything I do, e.g., I was tidying the house this morning whilst she was lying on the sofa with our son watching TV, it is very cold here at the moment, I tooke her coat into the porch to hang it and I couldn't find the hanger on the coat so it took me a little longer than it should have done. I heard her say to our son, see daddy only cares about his own comfort, doesn't care if we are all getting cold whilst he leaves the door open.

This is the kind of remark i am hearing from her all the time. I had it out with her, i asked her we she was being so sniping and vindictive, so agressive and horrible to me all the time, is it so you think i will help you leave quicker? The answer was so unintelligible I can't even remember it. So if that's what she wants then I will just ignore her from now on, I will not speak to her unless absolutely necessary.

Quite frankly she has turned into the ***** from hell. Afterwards I sat on the sofa cuddling our little boy and crying , he told me don't worry daddy it will be ok, just don't talk about it any more then mummy won't have to go and live in another house. Well that made me cry a lot more.

I wish she would just go, in the name of God, as soon as possible.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Oh crap. She really said that to him. I'm so sorry. That is truly evil. How dare she say that to hurt you and also throw her son under the bus?

Good night Marie, doesn't she understand that when we say a parent is 'bad' the kid takes it in as "I'm bad' because they are half you?

I've cried with my dd, too. She doesn't like seeing me so sad but sometimes I can't help it. The bond between parent and child is so special and they are so loving and forgiving. We have to be careful though to not project our feelings onto them. Draw out and validate their own feelings. This is more to me than to you. 

Well, we can only control our behavior, not someone else's. If she is going to be a cad, you can be their supporter and champion. You and your children do not deserve this treatment. She is being horrible. Praying for wisdom and discernment for you, strength and peace beyond all understanding.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Applepies for your kind wishes. I'll keep updating this thread as at least it helps me to put things into perspective and it's always nice to receive advice and support from others in similar situations.

I don't know if it means anything, but later i was making a coffee, after I had promised myself to ignore her from now on, she appeared at the kitchen door and said, can i say something? I thought, here we go.... I turned to look at her and she looked terrible, she said she was so sorry to be horrible, she said I am not a horrible or nasty person and I am sorry, I didn't mean it... she then began to cry, a lot, this was a first, she hardly ever cries about things, it's me that cries! Anyway, despite all my resentment and promises to myself as soon as I saw her crying I just melted and walked over to her and hugged her, she started to tell me why she was so upset, I just held her tight and said it doesn't matter, don't talk, just hug. We hugged for about 2 or three minutes and then I told her to go and lie down and rest which she did. So far since then she has been quiet but OK.

Maybe the whole thing has caught up with her, the enormity of her situation has just made sense, I really don't know but I will keep updating here.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Yes, this is very good sign. She cares that she hurt you, she feels bad for acting that way. The opposite of love is indifference, if she were indifferent, she wouldn't care how her actions affected you. I think this is awesome and you being big enought to comfort her, is just awesome. Love is the most powerful force in the universe and can surmount just about anything.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Applepies said:


> Yes, this is very good sign. She cares that she hurt you, she feels bad for acting that way. The opposite of love is indifference, if she were indifferent, she wouldn't care how her actions affected you. I think this is awesome and you being big enought to comfort her, is just awesome. Love is the most powerful force in the universe and can surmount just about anything.


Not sure if she cares that she hurt me or just trying to convince herself that she is not a nasty person, or perhaps cares a bit about what I think or may tell others. I suppose I will always care for her no matter how horrible she has been to me.

Yesterday she sent a funny picture to the painter but he has not replied. I think she was trying to show him her lighter side. What she doesn't know is that I have spoken to him.

He seems like a very nice guy and made it clear he has no intention of coming between any couple, married or otherwise. He is separated from hi wife who lives in France but they are still close and he spends time with her. He told me that nothing and nobody would ever be able to come between him and his beloved Rosalyn.

Since, he has only communicated with her on purely art related topics, I think he is trying to give her a message and she is too blind to see it. She is still living in this fantasy world unfortunately. After sending the funny picture to the painter she copied it to her best friend to see what she thought. They always discuss the things that she discusses with the painter but never mention his name just in case I find the messages i suppose. But I wasn't born yesterday and know exactly what they are discussing.

Still, the ball is in her court and we'll see what she does next. This could be a long drawn out process leading to one of two conclusions, she goes or she stays, I have no idea which it will be.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

So that puts an end to the painter situation, I don't suppose he will say anything leading or anything that could be construed as leading to her now. Rosalyn, what a pretty name. Good luck to them.

I know what you mean on long process. Sometimes it feels like it would be better to be settled even if it were for the worse.

Love is long suffering, patient and kind. Tough stuff in difficulties but always the best way to go.

I have this verse framed:

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 
8 Love never fails.


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Still praying for you and your family, Quantum.


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## Quantumfilament (Oct 30, 2010)

Well, a couple of months have gone by since my last post. She is going and will leave in about 2 weeks. The 180 didn't work, but probably because I wasn't able to follow it properly. There's nothing left to do, we will stay friends and both move on with our lives. Thanks to anyone who helped with advice and support, especially you Applepies.

Take Care


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## Applepies (Nov 14, 2010)

Quantumfilament said:


> Well, a couple of months have gone by since my last post. She is going and will leave in about 2 weeks. The 180 didn't work, but probably because I wasn't able to follow it properly. There's nothing left to do, we will stay friends and both move on with our lives. Thanks to anyone who helped with advice and support, especially you Applepies.
> 
> Take Care


There you are, I was wondering how you were doing.

What happened, what's her take? How do you feel about all this?

My H is in therapy, as am I. I don't know what is going to happen, his type of issues - takes a long time to address. I'm more grounded with being ok if it doesn't work out. 

We have been dating the last three Saturdays, we do like being together and they've been enjoyable, and then I have trouble regrounding for a couple days afterwards. I don't know if we'll continue doing this, I don't know anything on what the future holds for us.

It's all so bizarre.

I hope you and your son and daughter are well, I hope you are taking care of yourself. Prayers continue.


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