# in hell



## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

So.... There is a lot going on right now. Am pregnant, husband's father dying and living with us, recently found out H (a sex addict in long term recovery) has been looking at porn for several months.

We bought and moved into this house at the end of last year, and since then it just feels like so much has happened that has left me feeling unsettled and like my boundaries are just walked all over and my feelings are unimportant. 

Tonight the FIL just started making calls inviting a bunch of people over. He was in a panic and thinking he was going to not last through the night. He is toward the end but not that close yet. So I called H to let him know to put his plans on hold while I ran around like an idiot organizing food for God knows how many people, I could only guess, who were about to turn up on my doorstep. It's Friday night and I'm tired but trying to show grace. If this was a one off then it is what it is. But it's not. There have been so many times when he will turn up unannounced, or not turn up when he said he will, or organize a dinner that he knows we will pay for and he sure as hell isn't offering to pay for anything. He's a severe gambler and has been freeloading this whole time. He doesn't think of anyone. He doesn't consider our position, or ask, or offer, he just wants to be king of his life and expect everyone to drop everything and suit him. I know this seems harsh in context of tonight but it's been a pattern of behaviour and i have nowhere to get my feelings out in the open because I'm not allowed to have any negative emotions or thoughts about my H's dad because he's dying. 

I have just gone on maternity leave, but have a little while before baby is due. Have been mostly at home caring for FIL and making sure he's OK. I got my pay in lump sum. 2/3 of it is going toward a property related tax bill, I was hoping the remaining 3rd could cover the next six months of mortgage payments. But it won't because we have other things we will need to cover which my husband's income can't cover. Like $7K toward a funeral bill.

So tonight I was having my feelings but fulfilling my duty and cleaning and making all this food. While I was eating, the "fun" started. One of H's uncles mentioned a particular race but i knew it was far from over. It turned onto a racist exchange. I chose to remove myself from his presence and sit with someone else because it was the last thing I needed right now. 

About 10 minutes later it all came up again, and this time it was a conversation involving the whole room of people, about 4 people making really racist comments. I am capable of standing up for myself, I am not afraid of his family, but H doesn't like making waves. To his credit, he tried to speak up twice, mentioning that I happen to be part-X, about my grandmother and stuff and the conversation still continued so i went into the kitchen and busied myself to get away from it. I could have spoke up I guess but I felt like it would be one against 10 or 15 and I was trying to remind myself that tonight was for FIL to have quality time with his family. I have heard comments from them before but I think it really got to me that this was my house, my roof, my food, I was serving them all dinner, it just hurt more somehow. 

I had a bit of a cry but calmed down and I reappeared later and was going through some photos with H's sister. Then I came across some of his ex in her underwear. So.... Yeah. You know how women remember everything? We had had very specific convos about photos of exes before we got married and moved in. I had gotten rid of mine. He took a while but he said he got rid of them one day and said it was hard to do, gave me this speech about it, but that he had done it. Then tonight the photos he apparently got rid of are making an appearance in my living room while I am pregnant with our first child and his family are slinging racist **** against certain people. (OK so I am white but part aboriginal, and in this country, Australia, everyone seems to have a ****ing opinion on how they are all lazy criminals with no jobs who get free stuff and the rest). My nan lived through the stolen generation and still lives in terror. Sorry but they can all get ****ed saying that **** in my house.

Since we have lived here (and during the time FIL stayed with us), my H's wedding ring and my pearl necklace i wore on my wedding day have disappeared. Last time he stayed with is in our old place, my wedding ring went missing. H won't let me bring it up with FIL or ask him about it. 

H was unemployed for seven months. Some of that time it was because we were doing major renovations to the house we bought. But when he tried to get work again he had some challenge . During that time we got some things done but honestly we should have been so much further ahead. We are now stuck with a bathroom with no door because the tradie who renovated it left no room for a door swing, and is avoiding coming back to fix it or finish the job after we gave him a part payment. 

H started drinking and hiding alcohol but would deny it when I called him out. He also bought cigars for a mate's bucks to but ended up smoking then all. Also, he was looking at porn for months til I found 2 weeks ago. 

We went for a pre-baby holiday, and although we don't have a ton of sex at the moment, we did 3 or 4 times and he tried to influence me to do anal stuff, like was doing stuff down there that I had stopped him 3 times and asked him not to and he already knew i didn't want to go there. Then when I got upset he blamed my abuse issues as the reason we don't have sex and for kind of wrecking whatever was in progress that night.

We have had a few things go on with our house as well. I caught 3 young guys trying to break into our property a few weeks ago. Weeks before that H saw a guy walk out of our side gate (from our side passage) and into a house across the road. There has been other creepy stuff like that. 

I am feeling so second rate right now. In 2 months we are having a baby. We have no $. We will need to take out a second mortgage to cover funeral costs and possibly a new car (we currently have a 2 door). I'm not allowed to say or think or feel or express anything negative about his dad's behaviour, not even in my own house.

I said to H last week that I feel like I need a break, that maybe i will try to go to mum's at least one night a week. 

I feel so second rate in every way. I am developing depression and feel like no could be on for a pretty hard time when it's born.

No idea what to do or where to turn right now. 

I thought of separating for a short time bit it couldn't be a worse time than right now.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Oko, your response is really harsh, judgmental and unhelpful. I am in a really vulnerable place right now. All you did was pick apart every thing I said and find some way to criticize me. Please read the forum rules before responding to other posts.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

The advice came across kind of harsh.... but they were just trying to point out that you are not sticking up for yourself or enforcing any boundries. 

Your H ignored your boundries at least 3 times in that post alone, and probably more in real life. While you can't control what he does, you can give him hell when he does it. 

Take some control. It's the only thing that is going to help you. Get strong. SAY WHAT YOU FEEL. Don't be afraid to hurt feelings when people are being rude, ignorant or dismissive. Tell your FIL you expect a minimum amount of "rent".

Start a journal so you can vent. Makes lists of what you need, what you want, what you wish for, what you CAN control. 

And YES, go to your mom's at least one night a week. And if your husband is crappy about you really standing up for yourself, then go to your mom's for longer!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why not pack up your valuables and move to Mum's until FIL kicks the bucket? You don't need this stress. Let your husband babysit his racist father & relatives.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP - I'm an Aussie too 

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

You don't need to pay for your FIL's funeral, if you really can't afford it, the state will pay for it. Or, you can get it out of your superannuation (my dad died 3 years ago, that's how we paid for his funeral as mum couldn't afford it). Do not use your maternity leave payout for that - you need it for your mortgage and baby.

I don't have much time now but I'll come back later ok?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

QuietSoul said:


> Oko, your response is really harsh, judgmental and unhelpful. I am in a really vulnerable place right now. All you did was pick apart every thing I said and find some way to criticize me. Please read the forum rules before responding to other posts.


Unfortunately, part of every marriage's problems belong to EACH partner. You kind of sort of admit that you could be doing things differently, but when someone agrees that you could be doing things differently, you don't want to hear it.

But here's what it took me YEARS to understand. You can hate what your husband does, what your FIL does, all you want. But it doesn't make ANY difference, because you cannot control another person's actions. You can't make someone else change. The best you can do is make them WANT to change, by meeting your husband's emotional needs and not making them unhappy. And, of course, by having your boundaries and enforcing strong consequences if he oversteps your boundaries.

We can help with those, if you're interested in looking at what YOU are doing and can be done differently.

And btw, DO NOT take out a mortgage for your FIL's funeral. That was HIS job to set up money for that. If he didn't, that's his consequence. Let the government give him a funeral.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So what is it you want? Do you want advice or do you need to vent? Because either one is ok but if it's advice you want then you have to be prepared to hear it.

If you just need to vent then make that clear. This is a good place to do that.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When you put your story out on a public forum to a bunch of strangers then you obviously get all sorts of opinions. I don't think what the poster said to you was that harsh since I've read your other threads and I think you continue to allow people to take advantage of you. If you don't stand up for yourself, it will just be more of the same and all the sympathy in the world won't make any difference. That's no way to live.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

oko said:


> You're in a bad situation and while much of this isn't your fault, you are at least partially to blame for letting it get to this point.


Ok. Maybe if you could specify examples, and take into consideration the delicate nature of the situation, maybe you could tell me where the line should be here. In my other posts, i have discussed some of the things that have come up during this difficult season in our lives (mostly around the FIL situation and H's responses to the stress). 

I feel there is alot here that I don't actually have control over, that has nothing to do with me standing up for myself or not. Eg, FIL is dying, H is a sex addict, H was acting out in his addiction for months without my knowledge, I am pregnant and struggling with clinical depression. 

As far as me and my body and mind go, well ok, yeah i could go give myself a backyard abortion, but that's not what i'm wanting in this situation. The depression? I am taking meds and seeing a psychologist and trying to stay on top of basic things. I guess this could be considered "standing up for myself" in me taking initiative, but when you make comments like...



oko said:


> May I suggest that this is somewhat of an over reaction? Are you always so quick to tears?


...in a situation where, actually, i think it was a very valid response, depression or not, it's not a constructive comment and just comes across like you're having a dig and not actually expressing concern.



oko said:


> In this part of your post, you say you're not afraid of his family and you are capable of standing up for yourself:
> 
> But it's clear from other parts of your post that you have absolutely no idea what it means to stand up for yourself. People who stand up for themselves don't let people walk all over them, disrespect them and their boundaries, and people who stand up for themselves don't take orders from other people...
> 
> ...


Why? Because i made a judgment in this particular situation to hold back? Because my house is filled with racist f*ckwits who at the end of the day are there to spend some last moments with their dear family member who is quickly losing his ability to be present? Racist or not, i in that moment chose to remove myself from the room rather than take issue over this, because i felt that if i did, i would have lost control and told them to **** off out of my house if they were going to continue saying that ****, which would have caused drama whilst achieving little in reality, but i chose to show restraint out of respect that as messed up as that is, their last moments with FIL are important to FIL, H and them.

After my house being filled with guests at a moments notice after an emotionally exhausting week of caring for FIL, i was feeling vulnerable already and not that i need your approval here but i think that retreating to the kitchen and having a cry and then recomposing myself was a pretty good effort, all things considered.

In other parts of this particular post, i may not have given an abundance of examples of times i stood up for myself. I have in other posts i have made in this forum. One of those examples did involve H's extended family, who were about to make life hell for my MIL (who is divorced from FIL and they hate her because FIL put stuff in their heads), and I cut them down to size pretty quickly before MIL walked into the room because I was not going to let them gang up on her. 

The situation with FIL and H's needs is delicate and complex and is very difficult for anyone to navigate, so its' hard to know where to draw the line when my husband is grappling with seeing his dad disintegrate before his eyes. 

If i could draw you to an example in this post where I DID stick up for myself, it was when my husband was being pushy during sex and trying to influence me to do things he knew i did not want to do. I said that I had stopped him and spoken up three times and told him i didn't want this. I think this is an assertive and mature thing to do. But you said...



oko said:


> You don't want your husband to do something, and you have told him as much yet he keeps on trying to do it until you "get upset". Honey that's not standing up for yourself, that's tolerating abuse. Did it ever occur to you that you could immediately take his hand and shove it away from your ass and tell him to "F%ck off and start respecting your boundaries or you're through"?


I'm sorry that you feel the need to tell me how i didn't do enough to prevent this from happening. I'm sorry that you don't consider me telling him THREE TIMES was me standing up for myself. I would hope that anyone who would look to you for advice concerning a partner who is pushy during sex would not incur your judgment because it could be very damaging.



oko said:


> You're not "allowed"..? What does this even mean? Anyone who tells you that you are not permitted to have negative emotions or thoughts about his dad can go to hell. Yes, it's really that easy to tell someone to F%ck off. Especially someone who "knows how to stand up for themselves"...
> 
> ...Here we go again. Your husband wont "let you" bring it up. How is he preventing you..do you have a gag over your mouth, are you restrained in some physical way?...
> 
> ...Yes, we know, you're not "allowed". You oughta post all the rules you're given so you don't accidentally break one of them.


I was not intending to be taken so literally, but it's my way of expressing the rules that are unspoken but very present. Every family has their rules. My family has certain rules, his family has his, and H has his flaws, mostly revolving around avoiding any potential conflict, especially between me and his family. Not that there have been some huge amount of conflicts. It's just one of those things about being the "in law", or "the outlaw" more like it. One has to pick their battles. This involves restraint. A litlte different from not sticking up for ones self.

So in me saying it not be taken overly literally, no there is no gag over my mouth, no i am not being restrained physically, and am not told that I am "not allowed". But there are certain things that need to be done jointly and would be more appropriate if done by H if it's his dad and not mine. Eg, saying "no" when his dad asks him for $, asking him to contribute financially, asking him about the missing jewellery and his suspicious behaviour with going through our mail and personal papers, calling him out when he lies (which is most times he opens his mouth). H's sister has been wanting the FIL to put $ aside for his own funeral and there was a huge blow up between them over that, and that's how FIL ended up at our place most recently because he didn't want to know about it or talk about $. H tried to bring it up with him here and he got really angry.

So i tell H that, for eg, i would like to ask FIL about the jewellery but H says that his dad is dying and it won't do any good, that even if he did take it he would lie anyway (which is all true). I guess i could go over his head and ask him myself. It would p*ss H off big time and make him really uncomfortable and probably hurt him. But I have to look at what it will achieve, and again, it would probably achieve very little, considering the valid points H made. 

It's not that i'm "not allowed" to have negative feelings or thoughts toward his dad. But when i express them to H and vent to H, H gets angry and keeps saying that his dad is dying. It's not that i'm not allowed, it's just that in H's mind, the fact FIL is dying overshadows his dad's flaws, money, and any other issue. He wants to make FIL as comfortable as possible. FIL is losing his ability to walk now, he is asleep almost all the time. It's a really serious situation and i understand H's needs right now, and it's one of those things, do i jump up and down and demand we talk about money or jewellery or his dad (of all people) being critical of our house where he stays for free or critical of our financial decisions when he is leaving us in debt, or do i do my best to allow H to spend his final days with his dying dad in peace?

There are valid arguments from both sides but it's difficult to navigate and to know when to concede. TAM is one of the few places I feel I can get support around this as I can't solely lean on H or constantly vent to him about my frustrations with FIL while he is in need of support as he comes to terms with FIL dying.

So in your mind, sticking up for myself is as simple as telling H or FIL or both to "**** off" or "go to hell". Given the context and full circumstances here, tell me how that would be constructive. Tell me that is the only valid way to "stick up for myself". Because that's the message i get from what you wrote.



oko said:


> How can a bathroom be renovated in such a way that there is no room for a door to swing. That makes no sense. Do you know that the door can be reversed left to right or so that it swings outward, or you can get a pocket door in many situations.


Would you like a personal diagram? Would you like me to do a google search for you on why doors to internal rooms must swing in rather than out? Would you like a copy of the report we received from a building inspector about the issue, and detailing why neither a bifold nor a sliding door can be installed? I am here for support, not to be nitpicked to death on side issues.



oko said:


> You have no money, you can't pay all your bills, and yet you decide to have a baby? Do you know the average estimated cost to raise a child to adulthood is about $200,000 nowadays? Where is that money going to come from?


Really? F*ck off with your judgments already. At the time i fell pregnant (in December), we didn't know H was going to be unemployed for seven months. We had a budget set aside for renos but those blew out a little due to unforeseen issues that could not have been known before the works started. It wasn't until February when my job security was up in the air. Fortunately (within the last week) i have since been made permanent. And we weren't thinking about having to cover FIL's funeral bill as we thought he would have longer. He only got 6-12 months in February. Other than this we are both responsible adults, we do not piss our $ against the wind or live extravagantly. Sh*t happens. 

Were you in some perfect blissful financial bubble when you had children? Were you in that financial position throughout the entire course of raising them? I am sharing here for support, not to get judged like some knocked up teenager with no consideration for the future.



oko said:


> It's time to grow a set. Or at least be honest with yourself, you are letting your husband and his family walk all over you because you do NOT know how to stand up for yourself, you continue to enable this situation and while it's not all "your fault", you are doing nothing to fix this.


If you have any other suggestions to "fix this" than telling stressed H, dying FIL and grieving family to "f*ck off" then be my guest. I am here seeking constructive advice. You show no appreciation for the complexities of this situation and you have not tempered anything you have said with understanding or compassion.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

frusdil said:


> OP - I'm an Aussie too
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this.
> 
> ...


Frusedil, thanks heaps. I didn't realise the government could pay. The bill was basically going to be split three ways between us, H's sister and H's mother (who is not that wealthy herself). If you could inbox me with any info, that would be great. We are in NSW, wondering if this would fall under NSW Trustee & Guardian? I know they do certain things like administer estates when someone dies without a will but has assets etc. Anyway, inbox me when you have a moment


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

To all others, 

I do not have an issue with being challenged, or pointed out that i am not sticking up for myself or that i could stick up for myself more effectively. The issue i took with Oko is (aside from what I believe was unecessary harshness) was a lack of consideration for the complexity of my situation, and lack of constructive feedback. Oko's only advice on sticking up for myself is to tell people to "f*ck off" or "go to hell", and no consideration on navigating situations case-by-case or yielding to others' needs (where appropriate). My FIL is dying, my H is coming to terms with alot right now. FIL is in his last days, i wouldn't give him even 2 weeks now. H has no more leave (he is at a new job and still on probation anyway), and I am going to be around until FIL goes into a facility as soon as a bed becomes available. It's looking like it could be this week. 

If you have constructive feedback on how i could have done better in specific examples from my post, feel free to point these out to me, and demonstrate what i could have said or done, and maybe some guidance on where to draw the line given the complexity of this situation.

I have never taken issue with anyone in this forum responding to my posts, and have been on here since 2011. I come here to share things, may of which i haven't been able to get off my chest in real life. If I was wrong, tell me, but make your feedback constructive and something i can work with.

Peace

QS


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## lincolnave (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey QS,

I'm very thankful that I'm not in your shoes and appreciate you're asking for help. Your in a VERY humbling situation.

From your posts, I'm not exactly sure why you've come here, but will take it on face value (asking for help) and come from a place of respect and appreciation

May I respectfully make a suggestion? Treat this forum as you would your husband/FIL, this may give you some practice in "building a better person". I'm saying don't engage/respond with people that you find are not being helpful. The only reason for this forum is help. Think of them as not "right or wrong", but simply a different place (and you may disagree with them, strongly) but when you engage then you seem to be "wrapping yourself in the emotions", rather than seeing the post on the screen. Not engaging could be your most powerful tool, forget being "right". Who cares that you are right, only you. Live with the knowledge that you are right and don't engage unless it is worth your time.

With all due respect to the other posters, they are doing their "best" to give advice.

Please understand I'm not encouraging you to "stuff" you feelings, rather asses them. Engagement is not an obligation, it a decision.

Hopefully, you can then do the same with the people you live with and find a little comfort in having more control when/if you want to engage.

One last thing, (statistically speaking) since you are crowd sourcing advice, remember the best way to use the power of the crowd comes from the strength found in the best answers, not in the average or cumulative answers. Only use and engage with the best. IMHO

Either way, I wish you all the best.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

It does help to know that FIL only has a short time left. Because in that case, a huge part of your problems will be gone soon. In that case... suck it up and just get through it. If the racists are present, go somewhere else. Protect your own mind and your baby. Look out for yourself. If it gets stupid and/or ugly.... go take a hot bath, go for a walk, just walk away. You don't have to tell people to f*ck off under this stressful situation. But you can choose not to deal with them. It is a stressful time for H too, but if his family is so ignorant and disrespectful you could bow out and tell him to figure out how to deal with them. Don't be there for them. 

And still yes, go to your mom's whenever you can. Go and de-stress.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

I would just excuse myself from the situation when you are feeling attacked or when his family are acting like jerks. Soon he will be gone and maybe that will get rid of that problem. Try not to stress out, as stress affects the baby too. Maybe make it a point to go to your friends or family's house when they visit. Or tell them you will be busy ion the other room preparing baby stuff. Good luckl!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

QuietSoul said:


> Ok. Maybe if you could specify examples, and take into consideration the delicate nature of the situation, maybe you could tell me where the line should be here.


What we're suggesting is considering yourself an equal and then acting as an equal. If YOUR mom decided to throw a party at your home, would you expect your H to take off work, clean the house, shop for party supplies, cook, entertain, and then clean up afterward? Of course not. So why are YOU expected to do so for your husband's dad?

Because you ACCEPTED that role.

It is, and has always been, in YOUR control.

Next time your FIL decides to bring people over, call your husband, say 'your dad's throwing a party tonight; I'm making plans to go somewhere; you'd better call him to see what you need to do, to help him.' And then YOU DO GO SOMEWHERE.

Do you see how, in that scenario, you treated yourself as your H's equal and did not take on undue burdens just because you're the woman?

THAT is the kind if thing you are going to have to start doing. And that is what standing up for yourself looks like. Not starting a fight. Not being the bad guy. Just not accepting roles that others try to put on you.

There's a great little book you should read, too. Often recommended by therapists, about how women can learn to say no, when society expects them to give up THEIR needs to ensure everyone else is taken care of. It's called The Dance Of Anger.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't think it's necessary to make a stand to stick up for yourself. If it is an option, you might consider moving to your mother's until this is over and do not put any of your money towards a funeral or expensive burial expenses. There should be some very cheap burial options. Why you would pay for a funeral for a man who is mean to you is beyond me, especially when the rest of the family is rude to you as well.
It is not your job to make meals for other people, or to throw a party for someone you don't want to throw a party for, especially when you do not even want them in your home. You are taking on things that do you belong to you. Just don't pick that kind of thing up. It's not your job or your problem.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Quiet Soul here's a link that will help you re your FIL's funeral. It's called a pauper's funeral, but they are very dignified and respectful services.

Next of Kin is not expected to pay for a funeral if they can't afford it, and as an inlaw you are not next of kin. DO NO USE YOUR MATERNITY LEAVE MONEY.

If the family are determined to pay for the funeral, your husband and his siblings can access their superannuation. As I said, that's how my brothers and I paid for our darling dad's funeral. This is not your responsibility.

As for your racist relatives, I nearly blew my stack when I read that. They WILL damn well be respectful to you in YOUR home, while eating food that YOU paid for and prepared, or they can get the fvck out. I am gobsmacked that you allowed them to stay, regardless of why they were there. What about you honey?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

frusdil said:


> As for your racist relatives, I nearly blew my stack when I read that. They WILL damn well be respectful to you in YOUR home, while eating food that YOU paid for and prepared, or they can get the fvck out. I am gobsmacked that you allowed them to stay, regardless of why they were there. What about you honey?


Really. If that's not the height of arrogance, I don't know what is. I don't think trying to throw them out would have worked, since it would be a group against one. That is why I said it doesn't have to be a big stand up for yourself. It is a simple issue of not lifting a finger for them. Not even answering the door. And if they start in, leave the premises and stay with your mom. Your husband can come begging you back.


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