# Another porn and lying post



## SadHeart000

New to the site and hoping to hear from others…

Met my husband 10 years ago. Been married 5. Couple little kids and sweet life. Our relationship has been a solid 9/10. He’s a good, loving partner.

As most couples do, we set some ground rules early on after we started dating. Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it. He agreed no problem. It was a very clear rule in our relationship. For the next 7 years he did not view porn and I believe that. We would have talks a few times a year… sort of a pulse check on how things are going in the bedroom. Making sure everything was being sexually fulfilled and there were no desire to view sexual content. He always reported he was good and “didnt watch that stuff”.

Flash forward to one morning a few weeks ago. The alarm goes off. He rolls over to my side of the bed for a quick snuggle then I’m up and getting ready for the day. He stays in bed, I give him a kiss as I leave the bedroom to wake up the kids. 10 mins later me and the kids make our way downstairs to the living room. The bedroom is on the other side of the living room. I walk in and he is jacking off to a girl on TikTok.

That day I learn while he hasn’t been accessing porn sites he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s not full nudity.

It sounds SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.

But this was the man who I believed had no problem respecting this boundary and would not lie to my face about it. But he did, for 2 years. Every few months or so I’d awkwardly saddle up next to him in bed while it was a commercial break and ask how he was doing and if he was feeling the need to view any sexual content. This topic, in part, was brought up due to the fact that the last couple of years we’ve been in baby mode. There’s been some times during and after the pregnancy I was out of commission.
It hurts.. to know this all started during the pregnancy of our last child. But it hurts the most to realized he has literally lied to me for 2 years.

And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.

So where are we now?

Right after this happened he saw the hurt it caused. He didn’t try to argue or downplay anything. He was very remorseful and deleted the app. 
He has a therapist. Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.

All of that sounds great right? And everyone makes mistakes.

But does this really qualify as a mistake. He admitted to doing this for the last 2 years and knew I’d be hurt it. Lied to me about it multiple times. When this was possibly the biggest and longest standing ground rule we’d set.

Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.

But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


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## jlg07

I think that he justified it to himself because it TECHNICALLY wasn't porn. But that is just a way to tell himself that it was ok to do.
Are you opposed to him masterbating? Sometimes (for both sexes), it just a quick relief. That does NOT minimize the fact that he violated your boundary at all.
YOU may want to talk with a counselor to see if you can forgive and move forward with him on this.....


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## SadHeart000

jlg07 said:


> I think that he justified it to himself because it TECHNICALLY wasn't porn. But that is just a way to do himself that it was ok to do.
> Are you opposed to him masterbating? Sometimes (for both sexes), it just a quick relief. That does NOT minimize the fact that he violated your boundary at all.
> YOU may want to talk with a counselor to see if you can forgive and move forward with him on this.....


Masterbating is def OK by me… just not to the visual of another person. And to add more, he has pics of me. But yea maybe I’m the one needing a therapist. He got one after this happened.


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## DownByTheRiver

SadHeart000 said:


> New to the site and hoping to hear from others…
> 
> Met my husband 10 years ago. Been married 5. Couple little kids and sweet life. Our relationship has been a solid 9/10. He’s a good, loving partner.
> 
> As most couples do, we set some ground rules early on after we started dating. Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it. He agreed no problem. It was a very clear rule in our relationship. For the next 7 years he did not view porn and I believe that. We would have talks a few times a year… sort of a pulse check on how things are going in the bedroom. Making sure everything was being sexually fulfilled and there were no desire to view sexual content. He always reported he was good and “didnt watch that stuff”.
> 
> Flash forward to one morning a few weeks ago. The alarm goes off. He rolls over to my side of the bed for a quick snuggle then I’m up and getting ready for the day. He stays in bed, I give him a kiss as I leave the bedroom to wake up the kids. 10 mins later me and the kids make our way downstairs to the living room. The bedroom is on the other side of the living room. I walk in and he is jacking off to a girl on TikTok.
> 
> That day I learn while he hasn’t been accessing porn sites he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s not full nudity.
> 
> It sounds SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.
> 
> But this was the man who I believed had no problem respecting this boundary and would not lie to my face about it. But he did, for 2 years. Every few months or so I’d awkwardly saddle up next to him in bed while it was a commercial break and ask how he was doing and if he was feeling the need to view any sexual content. This topic, in part, was brought up due to the fact that the last couple of years we’ve been in baby mode. There’s been some times during and after the pregnancy I was out of commission.
> It hurts.. to know this all started during the pregnancy of our last child. But it hurts the most to realized he has literally lied to me for 2 years.
> 
> And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.
> 
> So where are we now?
> 
> Right after this happened he saw the hurt it caused. He didn’t try to argue or downplay anything. He was very remorseful and deleted the app.
> He has a therapist. Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.
> 
> All of that sounds great right? And everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> But does this really qualify as a mistake. He admitted to doing this for the last 2 years and knew I’d be hurt it. Lied to me about it multiple times. When this was possibly the biggest and longest standing ground rule we’d set.
> 
> Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.
> 
> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


Yeah, you lost your attraction because he didn't respect the marriage rules and because now you don't respect him anymore because of that. This may be the beginning of the end, but give him a chance to get a grip through therapy before you decide -- unless you just feel you will never enjoy making love to him again, in which case, game over, because then he won't stay.


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## jlg07

SadHeart000 said:


> Masterbating is def OK by me… just not to the visual of another person. And to add more, he has pics of me. But yea maybe I’m the one needing a therapist. He got one after this happened.


Sorry, I'm not saying you NEED a therapist. I didn't mean it comes across like that. I meant that a therapist may help you figure out how to move past this and forgive him (or not...)


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## Rob_1

Mind as well become single or get into a lesbian relationship (not even that is guarantee, since lesbians also watch porn), because Not all BUT most men in this world watch porn. Those that tell you that they don't are lying to you to keep the relationship. 

Like I said, there are some men that don't watch porn. To find one, you'd have better chances at the race track putting bets.


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## ThatDarnGuy!

I am trying to say this in a tactful and respectful way without trying to be blunt and harsh sounding. But I believe that you are in denial if you don't think he has watched porn during the marriage. Not all, but most guys watch porn to some degree. Some are seriously addicted and watch it multiple times a day and others watch it on occasion when they have some fun time while alone.

You mentioned that this might come from some insecurities. May I suggest some couples counseling or even individual counseling for these issues? These insecurities may be affecting other areas of your marriage without even realizing it.

I know many people are against it. But watching porn together and adding sex toys to the mix can really spice things up in the bedroom. I know for us, it heightens the mood and gives us new ideas to try from time to time. You can also view videos that are more instructional which cover oral, bdsm, pleasure zones for her and him, etc. Also by opening up and exploring, you might find the two of you become closer and feel pleasure unlike anything experienced before.


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## BigDaddyNY

It is really tough to avoid porn, let alone the vast amount of sexually charged images everywhere, especially on social media. Not making excuses for his lying, but try to understand the difficulty in staying away from this stuff. My wife has never asked me to stop viewing porn, but I've imposed it on myself, and it has been very challenging to say the least. It is just so easily accessible. I looked at a site that sells bras for my wife and next thing I know I'm bombarded by lingerie ads. I click on one of them and now I get what looks like a mundane ad ends up taking me to an ED site that is full of hard core porn GIFs. I'm not kidding.

As @Rob_1 said, you really will be hard pressed to find a man than never looks at any kind of pornography or sexually charged content like what you find on social media. Also, realize that using an image to help him achieve orgasm doesn't mean he doesn't desire you. I'm sure this is little solace for you as I know many women can't fathom how that could be true, but it is.

My point of all that is you are better off trying to work something out with the husband you love than giving up on him. You can try to move on to someone new, but even if they say they don't use porn there is a very high likelihood they are just lying too. I hate to sound so cynical, but I feel this is just how it is. Your husband was weak and he lied because he was embarrassed. You need to work together as a team to figure this out. If you continue to have no sexual interest in sex with him he will eventually resort to porn or leave you.


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## TexasMom1216

SadHeart000 said:


> Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.


This is understandable. Once you've had a couple of children or passed a certain age, you can never compete with those women. I'm so sorry this has happened, and in such a shocking way.



SadHeart000 said:


> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


Also understandable. I'm really sorry. It's been a month, that's enough time for the initial shock to wane. 

Only you know what you can live with. Kids are perceptive, moreso than people realize. They're going to sense something is going on. I'm so sorry you're having to struggle with this, I really feel for you. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to settle for anything. You know what's important to you, and you have every right to have standards.


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## minimalME

Rob_1 said:


> Mind as well become single or get into a lesbian relationship (not even that is guarantee, since lesbians also watch porn), because Not all BUT most men in this world watch porn. Those that tell you that they don't are lying to you to keep the relationship.
> 
> Like I said, there are some men that don't watch porn. To find one, you'd have better chances at the race track putting bets.





BigDaddyNY said:


> I hate to sound so cynical, but I feel this is just how it is.


It just wasn't that long ago that men would've said the exact same thing about having a mistress or having sex with someone else while married.

Pornography is a choice, so basically, you're both telling this woman that finding a faithful man is an almost impossible task - so get over it.


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## BigDaddyNY

minimalME said:


> It just wasn't that long ago that men would've said the exact same thing about having a mistress or having sex with someone else while married.
> 
> Pornography is a choice, so basically, you're both telling this woman that finding a faithful man is an almost impossible task - so get over it.


It absolutely is a choice. The difference is a man has access to literally millions of porn scenes while sitting in front of a computer or on his phone. Now we're lumping in non-nude social media too. That's on par with masturbating to a Frederick's Of Hollywood lingerie catalog. Would people really get divorced over that? The availability really does make a difference. If all guys, while sitting alone, had a constant stream of hot women walking by 24/7 asking if they want to get laid NSA the rate of infidelity would be 1000x worse than it is now.

I'm not saying she should just get over it. I'm saying that she will struggle to find a man that has zero porn use in his past or his future in this day and age.


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## *Deidre*

minimalME said:


> It just wasn't that long ago that men would've said the exact same thing about having a mistress or having sex with someone else while married.
> 
> Pornography is a choice, so basically, you're both telling this woman that finding a faithful man is an almost impossible task - so get over it.


This.

The same could be said about alcohol addiction - that too is very easy to access, but no one here would tell the OP to accept alcoholism because it’s easily accessible. Lol


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## ThatDarnGuy!

If you find a guy who doesn't watch porn, you are going to find that he doesn't have a sex drive either.

It also seems to be a common belief that it's primarily men who watch porn. A really large percentage of women also watch porn.


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## Anastasia6

SadHeart000 said:


> Masterbating is def OK by me… just not to the visual of another person. And to add more, he has pics of me. But yea maybe I’m the one needing a therapist. He got one after this happened.


You do not need a therapist because your partner lied to you and crossed a boundary he knew you had while dating and continue to have. Many men minimize porn and think it's ok for everyone. 

Here's the thing he knew, he lied, he crossed boundaries. I can see and appreciate why you are upset.

Its important to figure out where do you go from here? How do you get your appreciation for your husband back? Do you want it back? Is he earning your trust back?

I would assume you want it back. Try each day making a mental list of things you appreciate about your husband. Actions, words and qualities he exhibited that day.


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## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> If you find a guy who doesn't watch porn, you are going to find that he doesn't have a sex drive either.
> 
> It also seems to be a common belief that it's primarily men who watch porn. A really large percentage of women also watch porn.


Absolutely false.

My husband doesn't watch porn and has a sex drive. Try speaking of only the things you know instead of trying to tell this poor woman that breaking trust and lying and masturbating to other womens images is ok. 

Why is every other boundary allowed in a marriage except this one according to 'men'. What is it ok to lie and break trust on this issue. If it was drugs, alcohol, putting the seat down, talking to women or spending saturday night with the boys people would say. Oh he's crossed a clear boundary that he agreed to that's not good. But with porn it's oh that's ok.


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## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> This.
> 
> The same could be said about alcohol addiction - that too is very easy to access, but no one here would tell the OP to accept alcoholism because it’s easily accessible. Lol


and it negates the fact that even if porn popped up on your phone (which has never happened to me it happens because people search porn). Even if it popped up that doesn't mean you have to whip out your **** and masturbate to it.


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## TexasMom1216

Is it me, but aren't there threads about low sex drive or ED for men and some men post that stopping porn use helped with those issues?


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## minimalME

BigDaddyNY said:


> It absolutely is a choice. The difference is a man has access to literally millions of porn scenes while sitting in front of a computer or on his phone. Now we're lumping in non-nude social media too. That's on par with masturbating to a Frederick's Of Hollywood lingerie catalog. *Would people really get divorced over that?* The availability really does make a difference. If all guys, while sitting alone, had a constant stream of hot women walking by 24/7 asking if they want to get laid NSA the rate of infidelity would be 1000x worse than it is now.


This is a heart issue. It's a sacrifice that you're (global you - not you you 😬) not willing to make. _Your wife isn't worth it. _

That's what you're saying.

_And_ giving me tons of excuses to go along with it. Poor modern men. 😂

As I said, less than 100 years ago, adultery was pretty much accepted* - in that people lived with it.

Would folks really get divorced over that? Not for thousands of years.

But now we have the internet, and all of you can be unfaithful in secret and not risk any sort of public humiliation at all, cause it's seen as normal and just fine.

But the heart issue is exactly the same. It's an attitude of entitlement.

*Edited to add: Society quietly put up with adultery _from men_. Women, not so much. 😒


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## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I am trying to say this in a tactful and respectful way without trying to be blunt and harsh sounding. But I believe that you are in denial if you don't think he has watched porn during the marriage. Not all, but most guys watch porn to some degree. Some are seriously addicted and watch it multiple times a day and others watch it on occasion when they have some fun time while alone.
> 
> You mentioned that this might come from some insecurities. May I suggest some couples counseling or even individual counseling for these issues? These insecurities may be affecting other areas of your marriage without even realizing it.
> 
> I know many people are against it. But watching porn together and adding sex toys to the mix can really spice things up in the bedroom. I know for us, it heightens the mood and gives us new ideas to try from time to time. You can also view videos that are more instructional which cover oral, bdsm, pleasure zones for her and him, etc. Also by opening up and exploring, you might find the two of you become closer and feel pleasure unlike anything experienced before.


How is it helpful to tell someone who objects to watching porn to watch porn?


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## TexasMom1216

minimalME said:


> But the heart issue is exactly the same. It's an attitude of entitlement.


Truth.


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## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> It absolutely is a choice. The difference is a man has access to literally millions of porn scenes while sitting in front of a computer or on his phone. Now we're lumping in non-nude social media too. That's on par with masturbating to a Frederick's Of Hollywood lingerie catalog. Would people really get divorced over that? The availability really does make a difference. If all guys, while sitting alone, had a constant stream of hot women walking by 24/7 asking if they want to get laid NSA the rate of infidelity would be 1000x worse than it is now.
> 
> I'm not saying she should just get over it. I'm saying that she will struggle to find a man that has zero porn use in his past or his future in this day and age.


Access doesn't matter. They don't just jump off the screen at you. I don't have porn show up on my computer because I don't go looking for it.

What you are saying is his wife's feelings and his agreement to not watch porn doesn't matter because there is lots of it.

By this reasoning all good looking women should have affairs because we get propositioned all the time. I mean there are literally offers everyday to sleep with us by men?

Access doesn't mean a person has to act on it.


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## Anastasia6

Let's take this to another crazy conclusion. All fat people can't help it because there is so much food in the world. So their spouses shouldn't be upset or expect them to not weigh 400 pounds.


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## DownByTheRiver

Rob_1 said:


> Mind as well become single or get into a lesbian relationship (not even that is guarantee, since lesbians also watch porn), because Not all BUT most men in this world watch porn. Those that tell you that they don't are lying to you to keep the relationship.
> 
> Like I said, there are some men that don't watch porn. To find one, you'd have better chances at the race track putting bets.


Doesn't mean you have to marry one.


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## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Let's take this to another crazy conclusion. All fat people can't help it because there is so much food in the world. So their spouses shouldn't be upset or expect them to not weigh 400 pounds.


If you're quiet, you can hear the Oreos in the pantry calling to me... 😂


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Wwith 


minimalME said:


> It just wasn't that long ago that men would've said the exact same thing about having a mistress or having sex with someone else while married.
> 
> Pornography is a choice, so basically, you're both telling this woman that finding a faithful man is an almost impossible task - so get over it.


With or without porn, sadly but realistically it's hard to find a forever faithful man. Or woman for that matter.


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## *Deidre*

That doesn’t mean you set the bar low in your marriage.


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## TexasMom1216

*Deidre* said:


> That doesn’t mean you set the bar low in your marriage.


He lied to her for two years. Do you lie to someone you love and respect? Or do you lie to someone you're using so they'll do what you want?

What else is he lying about?


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## minimalME

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> With or without porn, sadly but realistically it's hard to find a forever faithful man. Or woman for that matter.


I agree. 

We all struggle with something. 

But the overt/in your face/I'm gonna do it _no matter what_ porn usage is nonsense.


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## *Deidre*

TexasMom1216 said:


> He lied to her for two years. Do you lie to someone you love and respect? Or do you lie to someone you're using so they'll do what you want?


And it goes beyond marriage - if he was doing this at work, most likely he’d be fired. Maybe employers should allow for it though because it’s so accessible.


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## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> Absolutely false.
> 
> My husband doesn't watch porn and has a sex drive. Try speaking of only the things you know instead of trying to tell this poor woman that breaking trust and lying and masturbating to other womens images is ok.
> 
> Why is every other boundary allowed in a marriage except this one according to 'men'. What is it ok to lie and break trust on this issue. If it was drugs, alcohol, putting the seat down, talking to women or spending saturday night with the boys people would say. Oh he's crossed a clear boundary that he agreed to that's not good. But with porn it's oh that's ok.


You are absolutely kidding yourself if you don't believe he looks at the occasional picture or video. Whether it's incognito mode on the electronic device, hidden stash, those cheesy softcore movies streaming, or male friends passing around some kind of material whether in a group or at work saying check this out 😂. I don't think anyone will argue that men are visual creatures and sex sells.

In this day and age of streaming content and extremely easy access to porn or even non nude sexy content like pictures on a lingerie website. It is absolutely beyond laughable that anyone thinks their spouse whether male or female doesn't look to some degree at some point. The porn industry did not become a multi billion dollar a year industry from just a small group of people looking. But it's funny how everyone says my husband or wife would never look at anything like that.

I am not saying it's right or wrong. But sexual content is everywhere. Both men and women are sexual creatures with a biological urge. You might be driving down the road and he is looking at that model in a skimpy bikini on a billboard. Or she is looking at that underwear model on the billboard. Heck, even the way some people are dressing is sexual content to look at. But looking does not mean your spouse doesn't desire you or will cheat on you. But again, do not live in some kind of denial that your spouse will never look


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## TexasMom1216

*Deidre* said:


> And it goes beyond marriage - if he was doing this at work, most likely he’d be fired. Maybe employers should allow for it though because it’s so accessible.


It's certainly not as though someone can say no to it, right? 😂


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## TexasMom1216

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> But again, do not live in some kind of denial that your spouse will never look


You're not seriously comparing seeing a woman on a billboard to seeking out and masturbating to a TikTok video?


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## *Deidre*

As far as sexual content being everywhere, that’s not untrue but we’re not talking about inadvertently seeing a billboard lol The OP’s husband made a choice to lie to her for two years, his escape into another room to seek it out. It’s the seeking it out and lying about it that is the issue.


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## TexasMom1216

*Deidre* said:


> As far as sexual content being everywhere, that’s not untrue but we’re not talking about inadvertently seeing a billboard lol The OP’s husband made a choice to lie to her for two years, his escape into another room to seek it out. It’s the seeking it out and lying about it that is the issue.


It's kinda ridiculous, to be honest. "I saw a billboard ad for a beach vacation that had a woman in a bikini on it and that's the same as porn." 

Not everyone has the same boundaries and some boundaries may seem silly to some people. Bottom line, he deliberately lied to her, which means he tricked her into thinking he was someone else in order to get something from her. That is a huge problem and if a woman were lying for 2 years about say, excessive credit card debt, there would be a very different reaction than, "Hey, women like to shop, suck it up." 

And before you say "debt endangers their financial security," apparently this endangered their marital security.


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## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You are absolutely kidding yourself if you don't believe he looks at the occasional picture or video. Whether it's incognito mode on the electronic device, hidden stash, those cheesy softcore movies streaming, or male friends passing around some kind of material whether in a group or at work saying check this out 😂. I don't think anyone will argue that men are visual creatures and sex sells.
> 
> In this day and age of streaming content and extremely easy access to porn or even non nude sexy content like pictures on a lingerie website. It is absolutely beyond laughable that anyone thinks their spouse whether male or female doesn't look to some degree at some point. The porn industry did not become a multi billion dollar a year industry from just a small group of people looking. But it's funny how everyone says my husband or wife would never look at anything like that.
> 
> I am not saying it's right or wrong. But sexual content is everywhere. Both men and women are sexual creatures with a biological urge. You might be driving down the road and he is looking at that model in a skimpy bikini on a billboard. Or she is looking at that underwear model on the billboard. Heck, even the way some people are dressing is sexual content to look at. But looking does not mean your spouse doesn't desire you or will cheat on you. But again, do not live in some kind of denial that your spouse will never look


It's interesting to me that you think you know my husband better than I do. He does not seek out porn. He doesn't share photos or videos with other men. Period. I find it insulting that you think all men do this all the time.

Has he ever in his life looked at porn sure, yes. Has he in the last 10 years or more, no. You can do whatever you want. You can look at it, you can lie to your wife about it, you can shout it to the world. 

You can not however talk about my husband when you don't know **** about him.


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## MattMatt

@SadHeart000 Your husband did two wrong things. 1) He looked a porn. 2) He lied to you.

Personally for me, I think the lying is the worst. 

Unlike some members I think therapy would help you, to help you deal with his lies.


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## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kinda ridiculous, to be honest. "I saw a billboard ad for a beach vacation that had a woman in a bikini on it and that's the same as porn."
> 
> Not everyone has the same boundaries and some boundaries may seem silly to some people. Bottom line, he deliberately lied to her, which means he tricked her into thinking he was someone else in order to get something from her. That is a huge problem and if a woman were lying for 2 years about say, excessive credit card debt, there would be a very different reaction than, "Hey, women like to shop, suck it up."
> 
> And before you say "debt endangers their financial security," apparently this endangered their marital security.


This apparently put their emotional marriage in danger. Which is super important. I too would have attraction issues if I found out my husband was lying to me for 2 years specifically when asked.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

minimalME said:


> This is a heart issue. It's a sacrifice that you're (global you - not you you 😬) not willing to make. _Your wife isn't worth it. _
> 
> That's what you're saying.
> 
> _And_ giving me tons of excuses to go along with it. Poor modern men. 😂
> 
> As I said, less than 100 years ago, adultery was pretty much accepted - in that people lived with it.
> 
> Would folks really get divorced over that? Not for thousands of years.
> 
> But now we have the internet, and all of you can be unfaithful in secret and not risk any sort of public humiliation at all, cause it's seen as normal and just fine.
> 
> But the heart issue is exactly the same. It's an attitude of entitlement.


Unless you're in the House or govt job, or school board, hell, then you whip it out on virtual Zoom meetings.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## *Deidre*

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kinda ridiculous, to be honest. "I saw a billboard ad for a beach vacation that had a woman in a bikini on it and that's the same as porn."
> 
> Not everyone has the same boundaries and some boundaries may seem silly to some people. Bottom line, he deliberately lied to her, which means he tricked her into thinking he was someone else in order to get something from her. That is a huge problem and if a woman were lying for 2 years about say, excessive credit card debt, there would be a very different reaction than, "Hey, women like to shop, suck it up."
> 
> And before you say "debt endangers their financial security," apparently this endangered their marital security.


/drops mic 😂


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

TexasMom1216 said:


> You're not seriously comparing seeing a woman on a billboard to seeking out and masturbating to a TikTok video?


Whether it's a woman in her underwear on a billboard, dancing in a video on TikTok, in a movie, or any platform.

It is unrealistic to expect or believe that your spouse will not look whether intentionally or discreetly at some kind of content at some point. But so many people want to just blindly believe not my spouse, he wouldn't even look at a half naked woman in a beer commercial, or she would never look at the chiseled guy in the movie and think anything.


----------



## The Narcissist's Wife

SadHeart000 said:


> New to the site and hoping to hear from others…
> 
> Met my husband 10 years ago. Been married 5. Couple little kids and sweet life. Our relationship has been a solid 9/10. He’s a good, loving partner.
> 
> As most couples do, we set some ground rules early on after we started dating. Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it. He agreed no problem. It was a very clear rule in our relationship. For the next 7 years he did not view porn and I believe that. We would have talks a few times a year… sort of a pulse check on how things are going in the bedroom. Making sure everything was being sexually fulfilled and there were no desire to view sexual content. He always reported he was good and “didnt watch that stuff”.
> 
> Flash forward to one morning a few weeks ago. The alarm goes off. He rolls over to my side of the bed for a quick snuggle then I’m up and getting ready for the day. He stays in bed, I give him a kiss as I leave the bedroom to wake up the kids. 10 mins later me and the kids make our way downstairs to the living room. The bedroom is on the other side of the living room. I walk in and he is jacking off to a girl on TikTok.
> 
> That day I learn while he hasn’t been accessing porn sites he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s not full nudity.
> 
> It sounds SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.
> 
> But this was the man who I believed had no problem respecting this boundary and would not lie to my face about it. But he did, for 2 years. Every few months or so I’d awkwardly saddle up next to him in bed while it was a commercial break and ask how he was doing and if he was feeling the need to view any sexual content. This topic, in part, was brought up due to the fact that the last couple of years we’ve been in baby mode. There’s been some times during and after the pregnancy I was out of commission.
> It hurts.. to know this all started during the pregnancy of our last child. But it hurts the most to realized he has literally lied to me for 2 years.
> 
> And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.
> 
> So where are we now?
> 
> Right after this happened he saw the hurt it caused. He didn’t try to argue or downplay anything. He was very remorseful and deleted the app.
> He has a therapist. Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.
> 
> All of that sounds great right? And everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> But does this really qualify as a mistake. He admitted to doing this for the last 2 years and knew I’d be hurt it. Lied to me about it multiple times. When this was possibly the biggest and longest standing ground rule we’d set.
> 
> Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.
> 
> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


I can relate to how you feel about viewing porn and masturbating to other women. I have always felt that was a violation in the relationship as well. It is incredibly hard today because there is porn and or nudity everywhere. My husband is addicted to tiktok and lied to me for 6 months about even having an account. I have suspected what u said you found out is going on with my DH as well. He won't allow me to use his phone or access his tiktok..he will only hold his phone and show me a video. Recently i have seen him getting messages thru tiktok and when i asked he played dumb and said he doesnt even know where messages are. If I still had strong feelings for my DH, I would press the issue..but he has damaged our relationship so much from other issues I won't even waste my time asking or snooping. 
Anyways, I am sorry that u have found all this out and I am even more sorry about how it is and will continue to affect how u feel about him. Once I lost the "love" for my husband, I was never able to feel the same about him again..back when I wanted to..I just couldn't. That may not be the case for you..this may be something you can get past and move forward with. I would try therapy..for your own good, but it won't change how betrayal plants a toxic seed in any marriage.


----------



## TexasMom1216

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Whether it's a woman in her underwear on a billboard, dancing in a video on TikTok, in a movie, or any platform.
> 
> It is unrealistic to expect or believe that your spouse will not look whether intentionally or discreetly at some kind of content at some point. But so many people want to just blindly believe not my spouse, he wouldn't even look at a half naked woman in a beer commercial, or she would never look at the chiseled guy in the movie and think anything.


No one is arguing that sexual content exists. There is a HUGE difference between seeing a woman in a beer commercial and seeking out pornography on TikTok. The two things are not the same. At all. Even a little bit.

Even if they were, the issue is that she is married to a liar who lied about who he was in order to trick her into giving him what he wanted from her. He isn't trustworthy.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> Mind as well become single or get into a lesbian relationship (not even that is guarantee, since lesbians also watch porn), because Not all BUT most men in this world watch porn. Those that tell you that they don't are lying to you to keep the relationship.
> 
> Like I said, there are some men that don't watch porn. To find one, you'd have better chances at the race track putting bets.


Lots of men don't watch porn, and this guy promised not to. He decieved her and betrayed her. He broke her trust.


----------



## The Narcissist's Wife

Anastasia6 said:


> Absolutely false.
> 
> My husband doesn't watch porn and has a sex drive. Try speaking of only the things you know instead of trying to tell this poor woman that breaking trust and lying and masturbating to other womens images is ok.
> 
> Why is every other boundary allowed in a marriage except this one according to 'men'. What is it ok to lie and break trust on this issue. If it was drugs, alcohol, putting the seat down, talking to women or spending saturday night with the boys people would say. Oh he's crossed a clear boundary that he agreed to that's not good. But with porn it's oh that's ok.


Well said!!! A lie is a lie is a lie..and to make things worse..it's not just some magazine..these are internet sites or apps where they can talk privately to the women they jerk off to.


----------



## Diana7

This is a total no no for me and if this happened in my marriage I would feel very betrayed. 
I doubt counselling will help, he just has to want to stop. It wasn't a mistake, it was a decision. Many times he choose to do this and lied to you. To be honest it's unlikely he only started it 2 years ago.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well said!!! A lie is a lie is a lie..and to make things worse..it's not just some magazine..these are internet sites or apps where they can talk privately to the women they jerk off to.


In advance, I'm not pro or con on this, but if a guy is talking to porn women that is a different ball game, assuredly a no.


----------



## Anastasia6

Diana7 said:


> Lots of men don't watch porn, and this guy promised not to. He deceived her and betrayed her. He broke her trust.


And it wasn't like he did it once. She asked him specifically and this went on for 2 years.

Men like to say we have to accept this or be alone but she gave him that boundary before they married he accepted it and now he's crossed it. I would never have married a man if I knew he regularly jerked off to other women and intended to continue.

OP the porn brigade always shows up to defend porn. Please don't take it personal.

The real question is he appears to have quit and he wants to rebuild your relationship. Have you had any frank conversations lately about how you are feeling. 

Yes I would also work to address your insecurities but not because it's ok to view porn. because we need to grow as people. I have tons of my own insecurities as do most people in general. Regaining attraction for a spouse can be tough. I do know that when it is gone it feels like it is gone forever. But I think it is more like seasons unless it is a dealbreaker which for you it maybe.

Are you two dating. Having time to reconnect just you two and not with the child tagging along?


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You are absolutely kidding yourself if you don't believe he looks at the occasional picture or video. Whether it's incognito mode on the electronic device, hidden stash, those cheesy softcore movies streaming, or male friends passing around some kind of material whether in a group or at work saying check this out 😂. I don't think anyone will argue that men are visual creatures and sex sells.
> 
> In this day and age of streaming content and extremely easy access to porn or even non nude sexy content like pictures on a lingerie website. It is absolutely beyond laughable that anyone thinks their spouse whether male or female doesn't look to some degree at some point. The porn industry did not become a multi billion dollar a year industry from just a small group of people looking. But it's funny how everyone says my husband or wife would never look at anything like that.
> 
> I am not saying it's right or wrong. But sexual content is everywhere. Both men and women are sexual creatures with a biological urge. You might be driving down the road and he is looking at that model in a skimpy bikini on a billboard. Or she is looking at that underwear model on the billboard. Heck, even the way some people are dressing is sexual content to look at. But looking does not mean your spouse doesn't desire you or will cheat on you. But again, do not live in some kind of denial that your spouse will never look


It's interesting that you can't believe that there are still some good men out there who don't look at porn. Just because you do you assume that all men must be the same. Maybe it makes guys feel better if they think that all men do it.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> It's interesting to me that you think you know my husband better than I do. He does not seek out porn. He doesn't share photos or videos with other men. Period. I find it insulting that you think all men do this all the time.
> 
> Has he ever in his life looked at porn sure, yes. Has he in the last 10 years or more, no. You can do whatever you want. You can look at it, you can lie to your wife about it, you can shout it to the world.
> 
> You can not however talk about my husband when you don't know **** about him.


I am not attacking you or your husband. I am sorry you are taking it like that. But from the numerous posts here where porn usage was discovered, from working around a lot of guys over the years, ease of access, and even you saying he looked at porn that you know of at one point. I would be really surprised if he did not look at anything for years.

I am simply saying that porn and sexual content is so widespread and ingrained into our society that it affects most of society to some degree and it continues to become more accessible along with more content.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> You're not seriously comparing seeing a woman on a billboard to seeking out and masturbating to a TikTok video?


I think he is.🤔😲Same old excuses as to why porn is ok.


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I am not attacking you or your husband. I am sorry you are taking it like that. But from the numerous posts here where porn usage was discovered, from working around a lot of guys over the years, ease of access, and even you saying he looked at porn that you know of at one point. I would be really surprised if he did not look at anything for years.
> 
> I am simply saying that porn and sexual content is so widespread and ingrained into our society that it affects most of society to some degree and it continues to become more accessible along with more content.


Yet there are still a large number of us who stay away from it. We aren't helpless to do the right thing.


----------



## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I am not attacking you or your husband. I am sorry you are taking it like that. But from the numerous posts here where porn usage was discovered, from working around a lot of guys over the years, ease of access, and even you saying he looked at porn that you know of at one point. I would be really surprised if he did not look at anything for years.
> 
> I am simply saying that porn and sexual content is so widespread and ingrained into our society that it affects most of society to some degree and it continues to become more accessible along with more content.





ThatDarnGuy! said:


> *You are absolutely kidding yourself if you don't believe he looks *at the occasional picture or video. Whether it's
> 
> * It is absolutely beyond laughable that anyone thinks their spouse whether male or female doesn't look to some degree at some point. *
> 
> But again, *do not live in some kind of denial that your spouse will never look*


Really you aren't sure why when quoting my post that I might think you are talking about me and my husband 

smh

I did notice you backed off porn and switched to 'pictures'


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is really tough to avoid porn, let alone the vast amount of sexually charged images everywhere, especially on social media. Not making excuses for his lying, but try to understand the difficulty in staying away from this stuff. My wife has never asked me to stop viewing porn, but I've imposed it on myself, and it has been very challenging to say the least. It is just so easily accessible. I looked at a site that sells bras for my wife and next thing I know I'm bombarded by lingerie ads. I click on one of them and now I get what looks like a mundane ad ends up taking me to an ED site that is full of hard core porn GIFs. I'm not kidding.
> 
> As @Rob_1 said, you really will be hard pressed to find a man than never looks at any kind of pornography or sexually charged content like what you find on social media. Also, realize that using an image to help him achieve orgasm doesn't mean he doesn't desire you. I'm sure this is little solace for you as I know many women can't fathom how that could be true, but it is.
> 
> My point of all that is you are better off trying to work something out with the husband you love than giving up on him. You can try to move on to someone new, but even if they say they don't use porn there is a very high likelihood they are just lying too. I hate to sound so cynical, but I feel this is just how it is. Your husband was weak and he lied because he was embarrassed. You need to work together as a team to figure this out. If you continue to have no sexual interest in sex with him he will eventually resort to porn or leave you.


Get porn blockers on your computer. There are ways to avoid this stuff.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Anastasia6 said:


> Really you aren't sure why when quoting my post that I might think you are talking about me and my husband
> 
> smh
> 
> I did notice you backed off porn and switched to 'pictures'


Pornography does include pictures 🤣


----------



## Diana7

R


ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Whether it's a woman in her underwear on a billboard, dancing in a video on TikTok, in a movie, or any platform.
> 
> It is unrealistic to expect or believe that your spouse will not look whether intentionally or discreetly at some kind of content at some point. But so many people want to just blindly believe not my spouse, he wouldn't even look at a half naked woman in a beer commercial, or she would never look at the chiseled guy in the movie and think anything.


There is a difference between seeing something on a bill board and seeking something out. One isn't a choice and one is.


----------



## ccpowerslave

You sound like a complete unit OP. My wife seemed to blow me off this morning and it would have been all too easy to crank one out but I had belief and she came back and literally curled my toes back.

The fact you’re checking with him and saying, “everything ok?” Literally a man’s dream.

With that said, on some days even at a semi advanced age I would go. 4-5x a day. It just isn’t a reality for my wife. Although if she asked I would tell her the truth.

Oh I am at 61d without porn now.


----------



## Diana7

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I can relate to how you feel about viewing porn and masturbating to other women. I have always felt that was a violation in the relationship as well. It is incredibly hard today because there is porn and or nudity everywhere. My husband is addicted to tiktok and lied to me for 6 months about even having an account. I have suspected what u said you found out is going on with my DH as well. He won't allow me to use his phone or access his tiktok..he will only hold his phone and show me a video. Recently i have seen him getting messages thru tiktok and when i asked he played dumb and said he doesnt even know where messages are. If I still had strong feelings for my DH, I would press the issue..but he has damaged our relationship so much from other issues I won't even waste my time asking or snooping.
> Anyways, I am sorry that u have found all this out and I am even more sorry about how it is and will continue to affect how u feel about him. Once I lost the "love" for my husband, I was never able to feel the same about him again..back when I wanted to..I just couldn't. That may not be the case for you..this may be something you can get past and move forward with. I would try therapy..for your own good, but it won't change how betrayal plants a toxic seed in any marriage.


That's really sad. Why do you stay?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

All the chit chat aside, I don't see what tiktok is for or why it makes folks nuts, but then again I've never been interested in it or know much about it. 
Seems like just another thing to put bloatware on someone's phone or PC.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> All the chit chat aside, I don't see what tiktok is for or why it makes folks nuts, but then again I've never been interested in it or know much about it.
> Seems like just another thing to put bloatware on someone's phone or PC.


It's one of the most useless things I have seen online. Even my teenage daughter says it's dumb.


----------



## MattMatt

_Moderator note:- Let's talk about tiktok in a new thread in the Social Spot please, OK?_


----------



## Music4Life

Another person prefaced their comment the same way I'll preface mine. "I am trying to say this in a tactful and respectful way without trying to be blunt and harsh sounding". It sounds a bit like a controlling thing on your end. And the fact that he's "allowed" to masturbate, but not with visuals is kinda wild. BUT....what I'm saying really doesn't matter for you guys' marriage. You 2 have the agreement and that's that. What I would say as an outsider is to look a little deeper into the male psyche and male nature and just know that we think about sex all the time. It also sounds like he's doing it all wrong. It should always be done in private with a door lock, especially if there are children or the spouse is really not OK walking in on it. A lot of women truly do no understand men and our sexual wiring. They truly don't. Try to understand it. I wouldn't leave him for natural urges. Tell him to keep it private and use it sparingly and don't worry about it. If he's a great husband and father, is it really worth all the trouble? You have to understand that he'll never stop being a man. It's better to get more on his page sexually and there will be more freedom in sex for the both of you. Watch a little something with him sometimes, see what he likes, open up to each other sexually, and you'll see that for most men, it's really not a big deal. He would probably love your willingness to be open to it. I go back to the control thing, and say that it would be worth figuring out the true source of the need to control that and see if it's worth changing that need to control at the core.


----------



## Anastasia6

FloridaGuy1 said:


> REDACTED


You are missing the whole point. It isn't if you are for or against porn. There is a wife. Who let her spouse know BEFORE they got married an expectation. He agree got married and when asked for 2 years LIED to his spouse about a known boundary. That really shouldn't have anything to do with the fact the boundary is porn. But no.... the porn defenders think it is ok because it's porn.

Do you think it's ok to cross a known agreed upon boundary and lie about it?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> You are missing the whole point. It isn't if you are for or against porn. There is a wife. Who let her spouse know BEFORE they got married an expectation. He agree go married and when asked for 2 years LIED to his spouse about a known boundary. That really shouldn't have anything to do with the fact the boundary is porn. But no.... the porn defenders think it is ok because it's porn.
> 
> Do you think it's ok to cross a known agreed upon boundary and lie about it?


EXACTLY. This isn't about porn. It's about lying. If a woman lied to a man for 2 years about _anything at all_, the answers here wouldn't be "suck it up, you just don't understand women, if she's good otherwise just let it go and accept that she's going to lie." He lied to her and used her. She doesn't feel attracted to him because he is not who he told her he was.


----------



## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> EXACTLY. This isn't about porn. It's about lying. If a woman lied to a man for 2 years about _anything at all_, the answers here wouldn't be "suck it up, you just don't understand women, if she's good otherwise just let it go and accept that she's going to lie." He lied to her and used her. She doesn't feel attracted to him because he is not who he told her he was.


Well it's a little about porn but mostly it's a bait and switch. Get her to marry you, have a kid then change into the one thing you knew would bother her. AND lie about it to boot. breaking trust in two directions.

I don't have the guts but I wish we could have a woman only thread (which you know would be posted on by men more than women if you even tried) that discussed the damage porn use does to how we feel about the porn user. If I knew my husband was watching porn on a regular basis my attraction would go down if not cease to exist. Some women may put up with it but I'd love to know how many it effects their relationship. We've seen plenty of threads from women who are effected. My guess is you'd just have all the porn users show up and say my wife doesn't care.. but do they I'm think there is a larger portion than not, over 50% of women that it effects their body consciousness, their self esteem, and their desire to have sex.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Some women may put up with it but I'd love to know how many it effects their relationship.


The words you use here are important. It isn't that they "don't care." It's that they've decided they don't want to deal with a divorce and are just "putting up with it," they're settling for less emotional connection to their husband.

It's funny that this is labeled "porn-bashing" whenever women point out how hurtful porn is. Look at all the ED threads and men will say "lay off the porn, that helped my ED problems" and we're supposed to buy some silly story that they aren't comparing us to porn stars? They literally can't function sexually with us because we don't look like porn stars.


----------



## *Deidre*

Anastasia6 said:


> Well it's a little about porn but mostly it's a bait and switch. Get her to marry you, have a kid then change into the one thing you knew would bother her. AND lie about it to boot. breaking trust in two directions.
> 
> I don't have the guts but I wish we could have a woman only thread (which you know would be posted on by men more than women if you even tried) that discussed the damage porn use does to how we feel about the porn user. If I knew my husband was watching porn on a regular basis my attraction would go down if not cease to exist. Some women may put up with it but I'd love to know how many it effects their relationship. We've seen plenty of threads from women who are effected. My guess is you'd just have all the porn users show up and say my wife doesn't care.. but do they I'm think there is a larger portion than not, over 50% of women that it effects their body consciousness, their self esteem, and their desire to have sex.


I think if my husband were doing this as well, like a guy who needs his drug fix, I wouldn’t stay in that marriage. We don’t have kids so it would be easier to leave for me but I can somewhat see women staying who have kids, which is a terrible situation to be in.

There was another thread recently where men were defending strip clubs as well. I just find the whole mindset sleazy.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator note:- *Folks, this is NOT a general thread about pornography. It is specifically for helping the OP to talk about specific issues that are affecting her marriage.

Anything else is off topic.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Accidental threadjack.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

My late husband too showed no desire to watch pornography and swore up and down he never masterbated. That he felt it was gross. 

Lies. Loads and loads of lies. Now I’m not one to be jealous, I would have loved to watch him masterbate. TMI? So sorry. But in all honesty, it was a turn on for me for whatever reason but he wouldn’t do it and would never cop to doing. 

My husband was three times satisfied compared to the average sexual relationship of a married couple. Well, he should have been but anyway.. if he were out of town, he’d go to town so to speak.

Even with proof he lied until blue in the face. That was the turn off of it all. It just made me feel I could never be enough no matter how much I did. 

It sucks he lied. What it boils down to though is what your willing to forgive and if you’re willing to move forward which means not throwing this in his face each chance you get. That’s the make it or break it.

Anyway that’s what I believe. My husband never stopped entirely but I gave up that fight. Once I realized it had nothing to do with me, becuase it didn’t, it was easier to move on.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

This isn't the man you hoped he was. No one wants a liar they can't trust. No one wants a man trying to make you into his porn star either.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Bulfrog1987 said:


> My late husband too showed no desire to watch pornography and swore up and down he never masterbated. That he felt it was gross.
> 
> Lies. Loads and loads of lies. Now I’m not one to be jealous, I would have loved to watch him masterbate. TMI? So sorry. But in all honesty, it was a turn on for me for whatever reason but he wouldn’t do it and would never cop to doing.
> 
> My husband was three times satisfied compared to the average sexual relationship of a married couple. Well, he should have been but anyway.. if he were out of town, he’d go to town so to speak.
> 
> Even with proof he lied until blue in the face. That was the turn off of it all. It just made me feel I could never be enough no matter how much I did.
> 
> It sucks he lied. What it boils down to though is what your willing to forgive and if you’re willing to move forward which means not throwing this in his face each chance you get. That’s the make it or break it.
> 
> Anyway that’s what I believe. My husband never stopped entirely but I gave up that fight. Once I realized it had nothing to do with me, becuase it didn’t, it was easier to move on.


The problem is it can change their expectations. I'm glad it didn't with your husband.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

DownByTheRiver said:


> The problem is it can change their expectations. I'm glad it didn't with your husband.


not sure if im reading your response right. It definitely changed his fantasies. He went to being careless about my own desires or feelings to being consumed with trying me up, wanted to control me or feel like he was having all control over me and hurting me. 

This is all hindsight now since his passed away that I can see the changes. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Bulfrog1987 said:


> not sure if im reading your response right. It definitely changed his fantasies. He went to being careless about my own desires or feelings to being consumed with trying me up, wanted to control me or feel like he was having all control over me and hurting me.
> 
> This is all hindsight now since his passed away that I can see the changes. 🤷🏼‍♀️


It has certainly never been about meeting the women's needs and very often is just humiliating women. Sorry you had to go through that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> Access doesn't matter. They don't just jump off the screen at you. I don't have porn show up on my computer because I don't go looking for it.
> 
> What you are saying is his wife's feelings and his agreement to not watch porn doesn't matter because there is lots of it.
> 
> By this reasoning all good looking women should have affairs because we get propositioned all the time. I mean there are literally offers everyday to sleep with us by men?
> 
> Access doesn't mean a person has to act on it.


No, I'm not saying her feelings and the agreement don't matter. They absolutely do. If you agree with your spouse that you won't do something you are completely wrong for breaking a promise.

I'm only pointing out that the accessibility is going to make it very difficult. Sending a recovering alcoholic into a liquor store every day is going to result in a lot of them that are genuinely trying stay sober to fail. I love to eat junk food. If there isn't any in the house I really don't miss it, but this time of year when the closet is full of Girl Scout cookies the temptation can be overwhelming. I think that is just human nature. We SHOULD be able to not act on those urges, but fact is many do.

And again, in this day and age with such free and plentiful access it is hard to find someone who hasn't used porn. Now, here the OP is also including non-nude social media posts under the umbrella of porn/sexual content. She increased the available by probably 100x. It strikes me as a bit much.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

*Deidre* said:


> And it goes beyond marriage - if he was doing this at work, most likely he’d be fired. Maybe employers should allow for it though because it’s so accessible.


He would be fired at work for masturbating, lol. I seriously doubt he would be fired for looking at non-nude tik tok videos.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ccpowerslave said:


> You sound like a complete unit OP. My wife seemed to blow me off this morning and it would have been all too easy to crank one out but I had belief and she came back and literally curled my toes back.
> 
> The fact you’re checking with him and saying, “everything ok?” Literally a man’s dream.
> 
> With that said, on some days even at a semi advanced age I would go. 4-5x a day. It just isn’t a reality for my wife. Although if she asked I would tell her the truth.
> 
> Oh I am at 61d without porn now.


51 for me.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> No, I'm not saying her feelings and the agreement don't matter. They absolutely do. If you agree with your spouse that you won't do something you are completely wrong for breaking a promise.
> 
> I'm only pointing out that the accessibility is going to make it very difficult. Sending a recovering alcoholic into a liquor store every day is going to result in a lot of them that are genuinely trying stay sober to fail. I love to eat junk food. If there isn't any in the house I really don't miss it, but this time of year when the closet is full of Girl Scout cookies the temptation can be overwhelming. I think that is just human nature. We SHOULD be able to not act on those urges, but fact is many do.
> 
> And again, in this day and age with such free and plentiful access it is hard to find someone who hasn't used porn. Now, here the OP is also including non-nude social media posts under the umbrella of porn/sexual content. She increased the available by probably 100x. It strikes me as a bit much.


They are many ways of avoiding it if he chooses to. At the moment he chooses not to and has lied and deceived her.


----------



## Rob_1

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh he's crossed a clear boundary that he agreed to that's not good. But with porn it's oh that's ok.


NO ONE is saying that porn is OK, or that their broken promises are to be looked over, Only that if she's looking for a man that doesn't watch porn, then is going to be a difficult task. BECAUSE most men in this planet watch porn and that is an irrefutable fact.

The most likely scenario for her will be a man that will tell her what she wants to hear, not what he will do.
Of course, there are some men that are not interested in watching porn, nor they will watch it at all BUT, we're talking about a small percentage of the male population in this planet.

If that's a deal breaker to her, then what's she doing being a coparent and a house roommate? That shows to me that she has no self respect and has weak boundaries, because if she were that serious with her porn convictions and boundaries she should by now be divorcing and getting over with, rather than mopping, lamenting, and being meh about it. 

I wish her good luck trying to find a new mate that won't watch porn, not impossible, but unlikely, unless she once again believes that her man is not watching porn, hah, with that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

To at @Rob_1 point. From Psychology today:

_In terms of basic results, they found that 73 percent of women and *98 percent of men reported internet porn use in the last six months*, for a total of 85 percent of respondents. For porn use *within the last week, the numbers were lower: 80 percent of men* and 26 percent of women._

So OP is looking for the 2%. Can be done, but not easy. 









When Is Porn Use a Problem?


Research explores the link between pornography and sexuality.




www.psychologytoday.com




.


----------



## Jimmysgirl

Sorry is a hard word for me to hear. In my experience in my first marriage sorry was a bandaid time and time again for a repeat situation. The rules you agreed on in your marriage are yours alone and they should be respected. Most men do watch porn, that's true, it does not constitute cheating in my book. But your rules don't cone from my book. The problem is if you put it behind you what are the odds he's going to think "boy I really hurt her, I'm going to give her my complete honesty from now until forever" and not "well, I did it and she's still here soooo...". It's tough. He made a choice, he crossed a clearly marked boundary that was simple to avoid since he has pictures of you on his phone. People don't get how important it is in a relationship to have complete honesty and to never ever ever break trust.


----------



## jlg07

OP, to try and help what you are (I think) asking, -- your H is going to counseling to see why he did this to you (yes?).
YOU are having a hard time forgiving and forgetting, and worried that you cannot get past this (yes?).

So -- you just found this out and are kind of in shock. Take some time for yourself. Don't make any decisions right now one way or the other. Get to a counselor yourself if you think it will help you process this.

WATCH what your H does (not what he says -- what actions he does) and see if those actions can help YOU feel that he won't do this again. Will that be enough for you? Maybe, maybe not. That is entirely up to you.
VERY sorry that you are in this situation.


----------



## Music4Life

From my experience and knowledge from female friends over the years, many of the women who want to control their men sexually are the same women who don't give their man enough sexual satisfaction and frequency to begin with. Instead of worrying about his personal time, she should take care of him. He won't have the time or desire for anything else. But many woman simply cannot and will not handle that task. It's a tall task because it's long term and they can't handle it over the long term. I've had this frank discussion with my wife. She had to admit that a lot of the issue fell on her. Fellas, THEY KNOW. Call it out. They hate being the one needing to do the work and hold the accountability. And yes ladies, a wife's focus should be on her husband and vice versa. The problem is a lot of wives will cut off the sex, but expect the man to still be Mr. Knightly. I think this person should get over the need to control her husband through sex and watch everything get so much better.


----------



## oldshirt

SadHeart000 said:


> . Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it.
> 
> And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.


I have not read any of the follow up replies or the 5 pages of dialogue yet. I am going off of the original post at the moment. 

So what you need to ask yourself here is if his behavior is inappropriate and out of line - or if your insecurities are what is behind a lot of your angst. 

By your description he sounds like he is a good, loving, faithful and caring husband and father. You state you have a good sex life. And up until he was dumb enough to grab a spank while you were still walking around the house and walked in on him, it didn't sound like he had any kind of porn or masturbation issues where he was spanking to porn all the time and not leaving anything in the tank for you. 

In other words life was good. He wasn't out chasing other chicks, he wasn't molesting kids, he wasn't kicking puppies or a drunk/druggie, he wasn't ever rejecting you or denying you love and affection, he never implies you look fat in any given outfit, he is nice to your mother and life was grand. 

..... until you caught him spanking to some stupid tik toc. 

So let me ask you a question, if he wasn't dumb enough to do this in broad daylight when you could walk in at any moment and you never caught him,,,,,,, what harm would have come from his little spank session???????? 

Would he have rejected you or denied you love and affection? Would he have quit his job, started drinking and gotten fat on the couch? would he have hooked up with other chicks? Would he have molested kids? Would he have kicked the dog? 

What harm would have come from a grown man relieving some of his own pressure in private? 

Do you own his penis? Did he some how damage or harm anything of yours? did he hurt anyone or break any laws or violate any 10 commandments? Did he do anything fattening? 

Does he demand that you never double-click the mouse? If he were to catch you, would he lose all respect and affection and desire for you??

Who are you to tell a grown man he can't touch himself or look at some stupid tic tok video? 

If you are going to lose all desire and respect and affection for him because you walked in at the wrong moment because of your own insecurities and fears about Lord knows what,, then is this really about HIM or is it really about YOU? 

If I told you that I walked in on my wife and caught her looking at some picture or vid of some Chippendale in a G-string and it triggered my insecurities and I could no longer touch her or feel warmth or affection or desire for her and lost respect for her - What would you think of me????

What kinds of names would you call me? 

Can we say double standard here? 

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but guys spank. They've done it since they were 12 years old. And they will do it until they die at 90. 

You need us to spank. That tank is filling 24/7, rain or shine. If you really want us to never drain that tank on our own now and then. You better be prepared setting aside a part of your day every day to do it for us or you'll have way more problems than walking in at the wrong time. 

He sounds like a good guy and you sound like someone who has let your own insecurities and fears turn you into a Karen in your home and have browbeat this poor guy into an emasculated little boy that can't even play with his winkie on his own.


----------



## oldshirt

Now that being said, if there are some real world problems taking place, that is a different story. If he is pulling up porn on the work computer at work and risking his employment - that's a problem. 

If he is spanking all the time and is denying you or can't perform with you because he's drained his own tank so much there's nothing left for you - that's a problem. 

If he isn't taking care of the kids or letting the dog crap all over the house because he's busy spanking to porn the whole time you aren't home - that's a problem. 

If he's going down some porn-driven kink rabbit hole to where he is getting with prostitutes or shelling out family money on sex dungeons or dominatrix's etc - that's a problem. 

But a grown man, having a little private time now where no problems have ever came from it and you were none-the-wiser until you happened to walk in at the wrong time and now you are all bent out of shape because it's making YOU feel fat or somehow insecure when he has otherwise been the perfect husband and father..... 

That's kind of on you and if it him taking care of his own business when it is not hurting you or anyone else and is not causing any problems,, then what he does with his own body is his business just as what you do with your genitalia when he's not around that doesn't hurt him any or cause any problems is your business. 

People have a right to masturbate. 

And if you are getting the love and affection and attention you want and need from him, then whatever he does on his own time is his business.


----------



## TexasMom1216

OP, I encourage you to remember this is a forum for people with damaged marriages. Some of the responses you’re getting from those who say you’re trying to control your husband with sex would also roundly condemn you for lying to him and ignoring his feelings. They’re telling you that you have no right to any boundaries and that having standards in your marriage make you insecure. That as long as he isn’t molesting children that’s as much as you can ask. 🙄

Please don’t let them convince you that you have no worth and no right to happiness. Many of us realize this is about lying to you, using you and humiliating you, not about “controlling his sex life.” Unless you yourself are a porn star, you’ll never be able to nor is it right these men expect you to look and behave like one. You’re a whole person, and a mother, and you’ve been a good, loyal and honest wife. You were betrayed and I'm so so sorry that you’re hurt. I hope you’re able to find some helpful advice here.


----------



## oldshirt

Now for those that are going to say, "Yeah but he said he wouldn't look at pictures or videos of sexy women.."

OK, and I've got some great ocean-front property in Arizona I make you a great deal on. Just transfer me the money to my offshore account and I'll mail you the deed to a charming beach house. It even has some nice cactus in the yard and you won't even have to worry about hurricanes. 

He was a simp for even saying he'd never peek at some girly pics. 

It was an irrational and null and void agreement from the get go. It's like agreeing to never age or get wrinkles or ever get diarrhea and smell up the bathroom or something. 

If you want to dump this guy or never touch him again because he saw some gal dancing around in her underwear, that's your perogative. You have that option. 

But know that it is choice based on YOUR own insecurities and issues and not because he did anything wrong or sinister and that you are turning away a decent and normal guy because of your own issues and not any wrong doing on his part.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

oldshirt said:


> Now for those that are going to say, "Yeah but he said he wouldn't look at pictures or videos of sexy women.."
> 
> OK, and I've got some great ocean-front property in Arizona I make you a great deal on. Just transfer me the money to my offshore account and I'll mail you the deed to a charming beach house. It even has some nice cactus in the yard and you won't even have to worry about hurricanes.
> 
> He was a simp for even saying he'd never peek at some girly pics.
> 
> It was an irrational and null and void agreement from the get go. It's like agreeing to never age or get wrinkles or ever get diarrhea and smell up the bathroom or something.
> 
> If you want to dump this guy or never touch him again because he saw some gal dancing around in her underwear, that's your perogative. You have that option.
> 
> But know that it is choice based on YOUR own insecurities and issues and not because he did anything wrong or sinister and that you are turning away a decent and normal guy because of your own issues and not any wrong doing on his part.


Oh sure, just keep right on blaming it on the woman. Why should today be any different.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> NO ONE is saying that porn is OK, or that their broken promises are to be looked over, Only that if she's looking for a man that doesn't watch porn, then is going to be a difficult task. BECAUSE most men in this planet watch porn and that is an irrefutable fact.
> 
> The most likely scenario for her will be a man that will tell her what she wants to hear, not what he will do.
> Of course, there are some men that are not interested in watching porn, nor they will watch it at all BUT, we're talking about a small percentage of the male population in this planet.
> 
> If that's a deal breaker to her, then what's she doing being a coparent and a house roommate? That shows to me that she has no self respect and has weak boundaries, because if she were that serious with her porn convictions and boundaries she should by now be divorcing and getting over with, rather than mopping, lamenting, and being meh about it.
> 
> I wish her good luck trying to find a new mate that won't watch porn, not impossible, but unlikely, unless she once again believes that her man is not watching porn, hah, with that.


It's irrelevant whether most men look at porn (many actually don't), it's also about him lying and deceiving her about it. Just because most people do something doesn't make it right or that we should accept it and do nothing about it. 
She rightly doesn't want it in her marriage, and why should she, but he has decieved her.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Now for those that are going to say, "Yeah but he said he wouldn't look at pictures or videos of sexy women.."
> 
> OK, and I've got some great ocean-front property in Arizona I make you a great deal on. Just transfer me the money to my offshore account and I'll mail you the deed to a charming beach house. It even has some nice cactus in the yard and you won't even have to worry about hurricanes.
> 
> He was a simp for even saying he'd never peek at some girly pics.
> 
> It was an irrational and null and void agreement from the get go. It's like agreeing to never age or get wrinkles or ever get diarrhea and smell up the bathroom or something.
> 
> If you want to dump this guy or never touch him again because he saw some gal dancing around in her underwear, that's your perogative. You have that option.
> 
> But know that it is choice based on YOUR own insecurities and issues and not because he did anything wrong or sinister and that you are turning away a decent and normal guy because of your own issues and not any wrong doing on his part.


It's not about insecurities in anyway, it's about wanting a marriage where neither watches porn. It's about mutual respect and focusing all of our sexual energies in each other and not on other people.
She wants that, as do many of us, and if he can't possibly not watch porn he should have been upfront and honest and not sneaked around behind her back. Then she could have made a decision based on the truth and not lies and deception.
Btw a decent guy doesnt deceive his wife. He doesn't lie. He doesn't watch porn when he has told her he doesn't.
Standing up against porn in marriage is because it's damaging and wrong. The more you are secure in yourself, the more you want to stand up against it. 
Op has every right to expect complete faithfulness, mental as well. He also has a right to watch porn, but he needs to know that he may loose his marriage over it.


----------



## Diana7

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh sure, just keep right on blaming it on the woman. Why should today be any different.


Yep. Apparently he is a 'decent' guy. She however is 'insecure'. ☹🤮


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> OP, I encourage you to remember this is a forum for people with damaged marriages. Some of the responses you’re getting from those who say you’re trying to control your husband with sex would also roundly condemn you for lying to him and ignoring his feelings. They’re telling you that you have no right to any boundaries and that having standards in your marriage make you insecure. That as long as he isn’t molesting children that’s as much as you can ask. 🙄
> 
> Please don’t let them convince you that you have no worth and no right to happiness. Many of us realize this is about lying to you, using you and humiliating you, not about “controlling his sex life.” Unless you yourself are a porn star, you’ll never be able to nor is it right these men expect you to look and behave like one. You’re a whole person, and a mother, and you’ve been a good, loyal and honest wife. You were betrayed and I'm so so sorry that you’re hurt. I hope you’re able to find some helpful advice here.


I don't see where anyone trying to convince her she has no worth and no right to happiness.

Sincerely, did I miss that?


----------



## Diana7

Music4Life said:


> From my experience and knowledge from female friends over the years, many of the women who want to control their men sexually are the same women who don't give their man enough sexual satisfaction and frequency to begin with. Instead of worrying about his personal time, she should take care of him. He won't have the time or desire for anything else. But many woman simply cannot and will not handle that task. It's a tall task because it's long term and they can't handle it over the long term. I've had this frank discussion with my wife. She had to admit that a lot of the issue fell on her. Fellas, THEY KNOW. Call it out. They hate being the one needing to do the work and hold the accountability. And yes ladies, a wife's focus should be on her husband and vice versa. The problem is a lot of wives will cut off the sex, but expect the man to still be Mr. Knightly. I think this person should get over the need to control her husband through sex and watch everything get so much better.


Dont know whether to laugh or cry at this post. So men watching porn is ALL the women's fault. By the same token its ok for the guy to go and cheat if his wife wont let him do certain things in sex?????If something is wrong its wrong. Its ok for us to act badly just because someone else is acting badly? Okey dokey. 

Plus you are wrong. Many women who have come here have said they do whatever their husband wants in sex but they still go to porn. Its just not true.
Regardless of this, all women (and men) have the right to expect their spouse not to bring others into their marriage through porn but to focus solely on each other. Has it occurred to you that some women may not want sex with their spouse BECAUSE they watch porn? That the porn watching may take all their attraction and respect away from their spouse? It would definitely be the case with me and others have said the same.

OP has every right to expect her husband not to do this and not to lie and deceive. He has already married her under false pretenses and that was bad enough. I hope she stands strong over this.


----------



## oldshirt

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh sure, just keep right on blaming it on the woman. Why should today be any different.


No, actually I am blaming HIM for ever saying that he'd never look at any girly pics in the first place. He was a fool and a simp for ever saying he'd go along with that in the first place. 

This would be like my wife agreeing to never watch any of the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows or any of the 50 Shades material because it triggers my insecurity because I'm not a rich and handsome millionaire. 

He set himself up for failure by agreeing to it in the first place.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I don't see where anyone trying to convince her she has no worth and no right to happiness.
> 
> Sincerely, did I miss that?


You did miss it, it’s conveyed in the harsh and spiteful tone of posts telling her she can’t set boundaries in her own marriage and expect not to be lied to.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> No, actually I am blaming HIM for ever saying that he'd never look at any girly pics in the first place. He was a fool and a simp for ever saying he'd go along with that in the first place.
> 
> This would be like my wife agreeing to never watch any of the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows or any of the 50 Shades material because it triggers my insecurity because I'm not a rich and handsome millionaire.
> 
> He set himself up for failure by agreeing to it in the first place.


For most of us it's nothing to do with insecurities but self respect and refusing to be treated a certain way. It's the opposite of being insecure.

I just don't understand why anyone who truly loves and respects their spouse would do something that they KNOW is hurtful to them. Then to lie as well.
She has every right not to let that stuff into her marriage. If he refuses to stop then he knows what the result may be.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> It's not about insecurities in anyway, it's about wanting a marriage where neither watches porn. It's about mutual respect and focusing all of our sexual energies in each other and not on other people.
> She wants that, as do many of us, and if he can't possibly not watch porn he should have been upfront and honest and not sneaked around behind her back. Then she could have made a decision based on the truth and not lies and deception.
> Btw a decent guy doesnt deceive his wife. He doesn't lie. He doesn't watch porn when he has told her he doesn't.
> Standing up against porn in marriage is because it's damaging and wrong. The more you are secure in yourself, the more you want to stand up against it.
> Op has every right to expect complete faithfulness, mental as well. He also has a right to watch porn, but he needs to know that he may loose his marriage over it.


You can't sit there and say that this is not about insecurities when the OP herself said a number of times that it is. 

By her own statements he is a good man and good husband and good father and that they had a good marriage. She was suffering no ramifications from him sneaking in a spank now and then. 

If she was one of these women where she was being neglected and denied and she was trying to ask when why he doesn't want to be intimate with her and he's saying it's stress or that he is tired and then she finds out he is spanking every day and draining the tank and leaving nothing for her - the she would have a legitimate greivance and you yourself have heard me say here many times that neglecting and denying your partner due to one's own porn/spanking is the same as an affair IMHO so it's not like I am a "porn defender"

And you have also read on here me telling guys that are having sex issues in their relationship that the first thing to do is knock off the porn. So it's not like i am a porn advocate where there are issues taking place. 

But there were no issues taking place here. By her own statements he was a good guy and they had a good marriage and a good sex life. 

And also by her own statements that she had underlying insecurities and this triggered her insecurities.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> For most of us it's nothing to do with insecurities but self respect and refusing to be treated a certain way. It's the opposite of being insecure.
> 
> I just don't understand why anyone who truly loves and respects their spouse would do something that they KNOW is hurtful to them. Then to lie as well.
> She has every right not to let that stuff into her marriage. If he refuses to stop then he knows what the result may be.


In this case, it’s about the lying. She told him how it made her feel and he agreed not to do it. He lied about who he was and tricked her, and now she’s stuck with a child with a man she doesn’t know. That’s where the attraction went; she loved a lie and now that it’s exposed she doesn’t know who he is. If he couldn’t give up other women he should have told her that. If a woman lied for 2 years, no one would tell her husband to shut up and be grateful for what he has and let it go. And as far as insecurities go, again, men with ED with recommend giving up porn to help with performance. Why does that work? Because women in real life can’t compete with porn stars and the men can’t perform with their wives because their wives aren’t as attractive to them as porn stars.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> He also has a right to watch porn, but he needs to know that he may loose his marriage over it.


And the OP has the right to divorce him if she simply can not live with the knowledge that he looked at some bimbo on tic tok dancing around in her underwear when he said he would never look at any kind of sexually oriented material. 

If that is something she absolutely cannot handle and she has to break up the family and be a single mother because she walked in at the wrong moment and caught him with his junk is his hand, that is her right and her perogative. 

But she needs to do that will the knowledge that it is based out of her own insecurities and hang ups and not out of any high crimes or wrong doings on his part. 

Man or woman, people have the right to their own sexuality and the right to take care of themselves provided they are also taking care of their responsibilities to their home, family, workplace, partner etc. what they do above and beyond that in their own privacy with their own genitalia is their business. 

She can also continue to reject and deny him of any intimacy and affection now but expect him to continue to pay bills and help take care of the home and children. 

But she needs to do that with the knowledge that in time he will become resentful and detached and lose love and affection and esteem for her and will either turn to real porn for real, or will get with another woman(s) in real life, or will leave and divorce her. 

Again, not due to high crimes and wrong doings on his part in the first place but do to her insecurities over seeing some gal in a bikini or whatever on a stupid tik tok video.


----------



## oldshirt

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I don't see where anyone trying to convince her she has no worth and no right to happiness.
> 
> Sincerely, did I miss that?


No, you did not miss anything. The usual suspects are making that up and putting those words into other people's mouths. 
No one has said a single word about any of that other than the ones that pull those things out of their own behinds all the time.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Yep. Apparently he is a 'decent' guy. She however is 'insecure'. ☹🤮


It’s hardly insecure to believe that you are worth giving up other women. If her husband didn’t want to give up porn he should have told her BEFORE they married. If she wasn’t worth that to him, the manly thing to do is be honest and let her decide, not lie to her and trick her. He doesn’t sound “decent” to me, he sounds dishonest and selfish. She gave him “porn” of her to use and he doesn’t want that, he wants other women. He's lied and humiliated her. He should have told her he wasn’t a one woman guy so she could make an informed choice.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I'm amazed that all this angst over something that isn't even porn. It was a stupid non-nude tiktok. Would everyone feel he was out of line if he was masturbating to an episode of something like Bay Watch? Because that is about the same level of sexuality and nudity we are talking about, a TV show.


----------



## oldshirt

Now I do have to say, the guy is a dumbazz. 

Even 12 year olds that are starting to play with their winkies know enough to not do it in broad daylight while their mom is running around the house getting everyone up and at'em in the morning and could come walking in at any moment. 

If you're gonna do that during the day while the family is all running around, at least lock the bathroom door and take a few extra minutes in the shower. 

Part of me wonders if OP is really a Karen that just can't handle other people having their own agency or whether she is simply disgusted at him that couldn't take the extra minute to take it into the bathroom and lock the door like even a 12 year old with a rip-roaring morning woodie would have the sense to do.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm amazed that all this angst over something that isn't even porn. It was a stupid non-nude tiktok. Would everyone feel he was out of line if he was masturbating to an episode of something like Bay Watch? Because that is about the same level of sexuality and nudity we are talking about, a TV show.


You’re missing the point.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm amazed that all this angst over something that isn't even porn. It was a stupid non-nude tiktok. Would everyone feel he was out of line if he was masturbating to an episode of something like Bay Watch? Because that is about the same level of sexuality and nudity we are talking about, a TV show.


The way I am seeing this thread go is the OP is a Karen that can't handle that the world and his sexuality doesn't revolve 100% around her and her worldview and now she has Karen II and Karen III all riled up that he didn't honor some asinine and fantastical agreement based on her insecurity that he would never look at any female skin for the next 60 years. 

This whole thing is crazy and off the rails. 

This could have all been avoided if he had simply locked the bathroom door and done his private business in privacy.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> Dont know whether to laugh or cry at this post. So men watching porn is ALL the women's fault. By the same token its ok for the guy to go and cheat if his wife wont let him do certain things in sex?????If something is wrong its wrong. Its ok for us to act badly just because someone else is acting badly? Okey dokey.
> 
> Plus you are wrong. Many women who have come here have said they do whatever their husband wants in sex but they still go to porn. Its just not true.
> Regardless of this, all women (and men) have the right to expect their spouse not to bring others into their marriage through porn but to focus solely on each other. Has it occurred to you that some women may not want sex with their spouse BECAUSE they watch porn? That the porn watching may take all their attraction and respect away from their spouse? It would definitely be the case with me and others have said the same.
> 
> OP has every right to expect her husband not to do this and not to lie and deceive. He has already married her under false pretenses and that was bad enough. I hope she stands strong over this.


Where did I miss someone saying porn is her fault or as you said always the Ws fault?


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> You’re missing the point.


No he gets the point perfectly.


----------



## oldshirt

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Where did I miss someone saying porn is her fault or as you said always the Ws fault?


You didn't miss it. 

No one said that that it was her fault.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> You did miss it, it’s conveyed in the harsh and spiteful tone of posts telling her she can’t set boundaries in her own marriage and expect not to be lied to.


So she really factually hasn't been told that here by anyone responding to her thread.


----------



## In Absentia

MattMatt said:


> @SadHeart000 Your husband did two wrong things. 1) He looked a porn. 2) He lied to you.


No... he made one mistake: agreeing not to watch porn when to him was, obviously, an unreasonable request.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So she really factually hasn't been told that here by anyone responding to her thread.


No. 🙄 No one said those exact words. They said all the other words that mean that, but not those precise words. 🙄 Semantics don’t change the overall message.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> No... he made one mistake: agreeing not to watch porn when to him was, obviously, an unreasonable request.


🎯


----------



## The Narcissist's Wife

TexasMom1216 said:


> No one is arguing that sexual content exists. There is a HUGE difference between seeing a woman in a beer commercial and seeking out pornography on TikTok. The two things are not the same. At all. Even a little bit.
> 
> Even if they were, the issue is that she is married to a liar who lied about who he was in order to trick her into giving him what he wanted from her. He isn't trustworthy.


Well said and great, valid points made. This man lied..no different than if a woman lied about something to trick someone to be with her or love her. The only difference is this huge sense of entitlement men think they have to justify why its okay and acceptable for them to watch porn, cheat or look and masturbate to other women. Ya know because we women have let ourselves go after having children, or we dont dress sexy enough or act how they want or cater to them enough or fulfill enough of their fantasies..and even better yet the long standing claims that "men are made that way, men are designed to spread seed, men weren'tmade to be monogamous..bla bla bla" all that idiotic bullcrap said to justify poor behaviors and choices. If you have to be compared to an ape or other wild animal's behavior to justify yourelf as a human..that should say enough. Lol 😆


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> You’re missing the point.


I think the point is he made a promise and broke it. Breaking a promise is wrong, period.

At this point though I'm not even sure he broke the promise. Or it was an unrealistic expectation on the part of the OP. It was to be no porn/sexual content, the OP"s words. What is sexual content? Is it anything a guy can get off too? If he gets off to women in business suits and was masturbating to the Macy's catalog, did he break the promise?

I get the no porn, no watching other people engage in sex, but I get the impression that the OP wouldn't even want him thinking about certain things. I think the husband signed up to an unrealistic expectation. But he did, so he was in the wrong.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> You can't sit there and say that this is not about insecurities when the OP herself said a number of times that it is.
> 
> By her own statements he is a good man and good husband and good father and that they had a good marriage. She was suffering no ramifications from him sneaking in a spank now and then.
> 
> If she was one of these women where she was being neglected and denied and she was trying to ask when why he doesn't want to be intimate with her and he's saying it's stress or that he is tired and then she finds out he is spanking every day and draining the tank and leaving nothing for her - the she would have a legitimate greivance and you yourself have heard me say here many times that neglecting and denying your partner due to one's own porn/spanking is the same as an affair IMHO so it's not like I am a "porn defender"
> 
> And you have also read on here me telling guys that are having sex issues in their relationship that the first thing to do is knock off the porn. So it's not like i am a porn advocate where there are issues taking place.
> 
> But there were no issues taking place here. By her own statements he was a good guy and they had a good marriage and a good sex life.
> 
> And also by her own statements that she had underlying insecurities and this triggered her insecurities.


She probably wonders if her being upset is due to insecurities. It's not though, it's normal to feel upset when a spouse is bringing others into the marriage.


----------



## *Deidre*

Why would you knowingly keep doing something that hurts your spouse, though? I think that’s where the OP is coming from - that her husband has been lying for two years and she is hurt by _that_ betrayal.


----------



## oldshirt

The guy here has made some mistakes. He's not completely off the hook here. 

His first mistake was saying he'd never look at some kind of girly picture to appease her insecurity for the rest of his life. That's just plain dumb. It's one thing to not be getting into actual pornography and circus midgets in vats of Ramen Noodles or Brazilian oil orgies etc, but to sit and say that you will never look at an image of woman showing some skin and cleavage is just plain dumb. It's one thing to be respectful and make an honest attempt to not knowingly trigger someone's insecurity, but to agree to something as unrealistic as to never see an image of another female for the next 60 years is silly. 
His second mistake was not locking the damn door. I mean c'mon dude, at least have a little common sense if not some class. Every 12 year old knows better than that. 

And his 3rd mistake was acting like the 12 year old caught by his catholic mommy and acting all shameful and guilty. So now he's going to THERAPY FOR A SPANK??? I really do worry about world today. If I had to do it all over again I'd go to therapy college because the therapists are going to be the next big thing and they will be making Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos look like paupers here in a few years. 

But anyway, when she walked in, he either should have told her he was sorry for leaving the door open and giving her a shock but then either give her the option to excuse herself and lock the door behind her on the way out. Or invite her to join him and they can give each other a little morning love'ns together. 

This whole thing should have never happened from Day One and it never should have gotten to where he is in therapy for something everyone does (or at least should at appropriate times and places) and she wouldn't be contemplating divorce in what she describes as a very good marriage with a good man. 

This is nuts.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s hardly insecure to believe that you are worth giving up other women. If her husband didn’t want to give up porn he should have told her BEFORE they married. If she wasn’t worth that to him, the manly thing to do is be honest and let her decide, not lie to her and trick her. He doesn’t sound “decent” to me, he sounds dishonest and selfish. She gave him “porn” of her to use and he doesn’t want that, he wants other women. He's lied and humiliated her. He should have told her he wasn’t a one woman guy so she could make an informed choice.


Yes I agree. It's something that people should be honest about before marriage. How can you make an informed decision when such things are hidden? It's just wrong to lie and deceive and a decent man doesn't do that. 
People are free to watch porn. Others are free not to marry a person who watches porn. If it's hidden you dont have that choice.


----------



## In Absentia

*Deidre* said:


> Why would you knowingly keep doing something that hurts your spouse, though?


Unfortunately, he was stupid and got found out...


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> At this point though I'm not even sure he broke the promise. Or it was an unrealistic expectation on the part of the OP.


Come on now. He did break a promise, playing games with the definition of what constitutes "porn" doesn't change what he did. He sought out a naked woman not his wife on the internet and watched videos of her, despite promising his wife he wouldn't and her giving him porn of herself to use.

If it was unrealistic, he should have TOLD her that before she agreed to marry him or at least before she got pregnant so she wasn't trapped and was able to make a decision. Now she has to end her marriage or deal with the fact that her husband is going to seek out other women. And I suppose she doesn't have the right to tell him she doesn't want him using her body when she knows he prefers others?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Deidre* said:


> Why would you knowingly keep doing something that hurts your spouse, though? I think that’s where the OP is coming from - that her husband has been lying for two years and she is hurt by _that_ betrayal.


I like to fish. I fished when we met. If DW told me she never wanted me to fish again, it would be a huge issue.


----------



## Diana7

It's nuts to you because you don't think that porn is a big deal. It's far from nuts for those who do. He didn't make mistakes, he made choices to lie and deceive and watch porn, despite knowing that it really hurt his wife. A good husband doesn't act that way.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> I get the impression that the OP wouldn't even want him thinking about certain things.


This is on YOU, not the OP. You're taking it to an extreme to justify telling her she has no right to this standard. Others may have standards or boundaries that you disagree with or that seem silly to you, but her husband agreed to this and lied to her. Now she's trapped in a marriage with a man she can't trust.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm amazed that all this angst over something that isn't even porn. It was a stupid non-nude tiktok. Would everyone feel he was out of line if he was masturbating to an episode of something like Bay Watch? Because that is about the same level of sexuality and nudity we are talking about, a TV show.


It's still masturbating to porn even if it's not hard core porn.


----------



## *Deidre*

In Absentia said:


> Unfortunately, he was stupid and got found out...


The thing is, there are things that hurt men in marriages. Suppose the OP refused to change and kept doing those very things, that hurt her husband. Y’all would be like “kick her to the curb, she’s a liar!”

Porn is something they discussed and the fact that he lied likely changes how she sees her husband now, and the marriage feels like it’s not what she thought. That’s really the point, that it changes how you see your spouse if they lie to you.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> She probably wonders if her being upset is due to insecurities. It's not though, it's normal to feel upset when a spouse is bringing others into the marriage.


He's not bringing others into the marriage. 

He had a spank and didn't lock the door and she walked in at an inopportune time and is now having a snit.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I like to fish. I fished when we met. If DW told me she never wanted me to fish again, it would be a huge issue.


Did you lie about fishing? Did your wife marry you knowing you like to fish? Or did you wait until 2 years into the marriage to tell her and lie about going fishing?

You guys are missing the point on purpose. I don't have the issue with porn the OP does, but he LIED to her. What else is he lying about? You say it's "just" porn, you don't know that. Neither does the OP, because her husband lies to her.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> It's still masturbating to porn even if it's not hard core porn.


Gasp!!!!!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

In Absentia said:


> Unfortunately, he was stupid and got found out...


See that to me is a situation that is tragic. As a grown man in my house if I have a very mutually happy sex life with SO, but decide to wank one here and there it isn't hidden to W. So there's no denying, no chance of being accused of lying, or accused of hiding anything. 

Some partners create their own problems.


----------



## *Deidre*

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I like to fish. I fished when we met. If DW told me she never wanted me to fish again, it would be a huge issue.


If you agreed to it though, and then lied through the marriage about it, you’d be in the wrong. Because you would have the choice to not marry that person. But yea, it doesn’t have to be about porn - it can be about things you discussed before marriage. If you asked your wife to not have Facebook for example, and she created an account unbeknownst to you for years, you might be upset that she lied about it. 

Goes without saying, porn and fishing are like comparing apples to laptops.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did you lie about fishing? Did your wife marry you knowing you like to fish? Or did you wait until 2 years into the marriage to tell her and lie about going fishing?
> 
> You guys are missing the point on purpose. I don't have the issue with porn the OP does, but he LIED to her. What else is he lying about? You say it's "just" porn, you don't know that. Neither does the OP, because her husband lies to her.


This is another of my replies regarding lying. Yes, lying is bad, but here's the answer. 

See that to me is a situation that is tragic. As a grown man in my house if I have a very mutually happy sex life with SO, but decide to wank one here and there it isn't hidden to W. So there's no denying, no chance of being accused of lying, or accused of hiding anything.

Some partners create their own problems.


----------



## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Some partners create their own problems.


I agree... as I said before, he shouldn't have agreed to not watching porn, because he obviously liked doing it and probably did throughout his marriage... then, he got found out...


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So there's no denying, no chance of being accused of lying, or accused of hiding anything


1. He wasn't "accused" of lying. He LIED.
2. Your response is spot on. If giving up porn was unrealistic for him, he shouldn't have agreed to it. He should have been honest and had a conversation with her about porn and what it meant to him. Then she could have decided how she felt about it and everything could be in the open like it's supposed to be. The issue isn't the porn, it's the lying. 

Now she can never know. When he says, "I'm going for drinks with my guy friends" she has no idea if that's true or not. He lied to her and tricked her for two years. Everything he says is suspect. "I'm not sleeping with that woman from work." How can she know? 

You guys would be on a completely different page if he'd lied about ANYTHING else.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Deidre* said:


> If you agreed to it though, and then lied through the marriage about it, you’d be in the wrong. Because you would have the choice to not marry that person.
> 
> Goes without saying, porn and fishing are like comparing apples to laptops.


Not to some wives. Sadly I hear other wives in fishing group doing nothing but complaining their Hs dont spend time with them the Ws because they fish a lot. Which factually isn't true but certain Ws want their Hs to feel guilty about having a hobby. That parts the same.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> He's not bringing others into the marriage.
> 
> He had a spank and didn't lock the door and she walked in at an inopportune time and is now having a snit.


He is. He is looking at other women while masturbating. He is lusting after other women while masturbating. 
Unless it's pictures of his wife he definitely is bringing other women into the marriage.


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not to some wives. Sadly I hear other wives in fishing group doing nothing but complaining their Hs dont spend time with them the Ws because they fish a lot. Which factually isn't true but certain Ws want their Hs to feel guilty about having a hobby. That parts the same.


Its very different.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> 1. He wasn't "accused" of lying. He LIED.
> 2. Your response is spot on. If giving up porn was unrealistic for him, he shouldn't have agreed to it. He should have been honest and had a conversation with her about porn and what it meant to him. Then she could have decided how she felt about it and everything could be in the open like it's supposed to be. The issue isn't the porn, it's the lying.
> 
> Now she can never know. When he says, "I'm going for drinks with my guy friends" she has no idea if that's true or not. He lied to her and tricked her for two years. Everything he says is suspect. "I'm not sleeping with that woman from work." How can she know?
> 
> You guys would be on a completely different page if he'd lied about ANYTHING else.


No, the lying is bad. Totally agree there.
Not making it clear to W that she doesn't control him is a situation of his own making.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> It's nuts to you because you don't think that porn is a big deal. It's far from nuts for those who do. He didn't make mistakes, he made choices to lie and deceive and watch porn, despite knowing that it really hurt his wife. A good husband doesn't act that way.


It's not even porn. 

And until he didn't have the wherewithal to lock the door, there were no issues or problems in their marriage due to porn. 

Porn is a non issue here.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> He's not bringing others into the marriage.
> 
> He had a spank and didn't lock the door and she walked in at an inopportune time and is now having a snit.


If she walked in, and didn't freak out in response to a normal sexual situation, she wouldn't be having these issues.

She could have folded the situation into an afternoon delight win win. Just by not freaking out. I'd bet she's masturbated some in her married life. Guaranteed.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, the lying is bad. Totally agree there.
> Not making it clear to W that she doesn't control him is a situation of his own making.


Oh for the love. Honestly. "Control." ANY other thing and you'd have a different opinion.

The OP didn't come here and say, "My husband is looking at porn, should I be upset?" She said "my husband has been lying to me for two years about who he is and I don't trust him or want to be with him any more." Whether or not you think "no porn" is a silly boundary isn't the point.


----------



## *Deidre*

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not to some wives. Sadly I hear other wives in fishing group doing nothing but complaining their Hs dont spend time with them the Ws because they fish a lot. Which factually isn't true but certain Ws want their Hs to feel guilty about having a hobby. That parts the same.


True, but men expect not to be lied to in a marriage as much as women do. I think it’s healthy to have hobbies away from each other but some women don’t feel that way and there can be a zillion reasons as to why that is.

But, the OP and her husband discussed this and he betrayed her trust. Telling her that she shouldn’t have made the agreement in the first place is irrelevant at this point - and the thing is, when someone lies, you start questioning if they lie about other things.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.😌


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If she walked in, and didn't freak out in response to a normal sexual situation, she wouldn't be having these issues.
> 
> She could have folded the situation into an afternoon delight win win. Just by not freaking out. I'd bet she's masturbated some in her married life. Guaranteed.


She knows he masturbates, she gave him naked pictures of herself to use while he does.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh for the love. Honestly. "Control." ANY other thing and you'd have a different opinion.


I'm in earnest to have a friendly conversation on this, so pls don't think I'm being purposefully obstinate or mean spirited, I'm really not. I am interested in differing povs in human nature. 

So, pls state any other thing as you say, and let's see if I'd have a different opinion. I'll certainly provide an honest answer.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> It's not even porn.
> 
> And until he didn't have the wherewithal to lock the door, there were no issues or problems in their marriage due to porn.
> 
> Porn is a non issue here.


So it's ok as long as he locks the door. Righteo. 🤦‍♀️


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm in earnest to have a friendly conversation on this, so pls don't think I'm being purposefully obstinate or mean spirited, I'm really not. I am interested in differing povs in human nature.
> 
> So, pls state any other thing as you say, and let's see if I'd have a different opinion. I'll certainly provide an honest answer.


That's fair. Sorry for being snarky. 

My opinion on this is, she told him prior to marriage she didn't think porn should be a part of their marriage. She provided him with pictures of herself (she should really get those back as quickly as she can) so that he could masturbate. She's been accommodating and available in the bedroom. He agreed to this arrangement and married her. They made a deal, and she has kept her side of it. 

He has not kept his part of the deal. He lied when he said he wouldn't use porn and hid it from her for 2 years. It's not the porn that's upsetting. It's the fact that he lied to her face for 2 years. Now she can't trust him, and THAT is why she doesn't want to be intimate with him. She can't believe anything he says. "Oh you're so beautiful." "I love you." "I'm so happy I'm married to you." Nothing he says can be trusted. He lied to her for two years and she cannot trust him any more. What else is he lying about? Maybe nothing. Maybe everything. She doesn't know any more.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Come on now. He did break a promise, playing games with the definition of what constitutes "porn" doesn't change what he did. He sought out a naked woman not his wife on the internet and watched videos of her, despite promising his wife he wouldn't and her giving him porn of herself to use.
> 
> If it was unrealistic, he should have TOLD her that before she agreed to marry him or at least before she got pregnant so she wasn't trapped and was able to make a decision. Now she has to end her marriage or deal with the fact that her husband is going to seek out other women. And I suppose she doesn't have the right to tell him she doesn't want him using her body when she knows he prefers others?


The woman on TikTok wasn't nude. There is no nudity allowed on TikTok. That is my point. There are no nude women on TikTok. There is more nudity in Times Square NYC than on TikTok. There is no pornography on TikTok. That is unless you consider a TV show like Bay Watch pornography. Maybe the OP does, but that is a ridiculously liberal definition on porn.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> She knows he masturbates, she gave him naked pictures of herself to use while he does.


That's a positive I'd say. So what's the big deal. Most women don't do that and want the H to tell her he never masturbates. Which is the on-ramp for the future lying accusations. So, really who then set the stage for inevitable lying? If she's very happy to marry and they love each other, the guy will agree to anything she says at certain times as a habit. As the guy matures he realizes that's not always the best thing.

There's no upside for letting the W control the narrative. That's all we're hearing here, too, just one side. That we have to remember. 

Whatever, the OP is where they are in this mess but if it's that puts her panties in too much of a twist she can end the relationship. She can live her beliefs even if extreme. Just be responsible for herself and create her own life.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> That's fair. Sorry for being snarky.
> 
> My opinion on this is, she told him prior to marriage she didn't think porn should be a part of their marriage. She provided him with pictures of herself (she should really get those back as quickly as she can) so that he could masturbate. She's been accommodating and available in the bedroom. He agreed to this arrangement and married her. They made a deal, and she has kept her side of it.
> 
> He has not kept his part of the deal. He lied when he said he wouldn't use porn and hid it from her for 2 years. It's not the porn that's upsetting. It's the fact that he lied to her face for 2 years. Now she can't trust him, and THAT is why she doesn't want to be intimate with him. She can't believe anything he says. "Oh you're so beautiful." "I love you." "I'm so happy I'm married to you." Nothing he says can be trusted. He lied to her for two years and she cannot trust him any more. What else is he lying about? Maybe nothing. Maybe everything. She doesn't know any more.


Yes, I agree the problem is his lying, but if she's very gung ho on him and the M, and I do hope they have a great M and it sounds like they have good sex between them, this is a window for both to give a bit, call it compromise, because as years pass, things change. 

If they both gave in a bit, problem over.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's a positive I'd say. So what's the big deal. Most women don't do that and want the H to tell her he never masturbates. Which is the on-ramp for the future lying accusations. So, really who then set the stage for inevitable lying? There's no upside for letting the W control the narrative.
> 
> Whatever, the OP is where they are in this mess but if it's that puts her panties in too much of a twist she can end the relationship. She can live her beliefs even if extreme. Just be responsible for herself and create her own life.


Now use this argument for anything other than porn. Other women, out of control spending, drugs, shady business dealings. Anything else and I bet your argument changes.


----------



## jlg07

@SadHeart000, what has your H been doing once you've discussed this. IS he going to counseling? IS he trying to do the work to show you he is remorseful for breaking your agreement?

AFTER the IC, maybe MC would help you both?


----------



## oldshirt

Let me come back down to earth and get serious for a moment. Y'all can feel free to come back down and join me on Terra Firma if you'd like. 

We need to have a little allowance and grace for good ol' human imperfection and fallibility here for BOTH the OP and her H as they are both human beings that have their own set of imperfections and challenges just like the rest of us. 

The best annalogy that I can think of to describe this is let's say that someone grew up with or was somehow involved with a real bad alcoholic and they were traumatized by their experience with alcoholism to where they wanted nothing to do with someone involved with alcohol. 

So let's say they meet someone and hit it off and are getting serious about having a future together and are discussing their parameters and goals as well as boundaries and deal breakers etc for a relationship. 

Our person says that they have a big issue with alcoholism and will not tolerate any alcohol issues and has a hard boundary on drinking and drunkeness and alcohol abuse etc etc. 

The other person says that that is fine because they aren't really a drinker and not a drunk and have never had any alcohol issues and alcohol is not really a component of their life and they see it as kind of a non issue. 

So years go by. They have a healthy and happy marriage and all is going well and there have not been any problems with drunkeness or drinking or alcoholism etc. No one has came home drunk and tore up the house or been an A-hole. No one has gotten any OWI's or in any trouble for showing up drunk at work and basically for many years, it's simply been a non issue. 

During this time our person has even asked if the other has missed drinking or is doing OK abstaining from drinking, and the other is like, "well yeah, I'm not an alcoholic so it doesn't bother me to not drink or be drunk or whatever" and life goes on without any issues. 

Then one night at a little get together at a friends house, our person walks in and finds their partner with a drink in his/her hand taking a sip......

And the sht hits the fan! That person is triggered and all of those traumas and memories and insecurities and existential fears come flooding in in an instant. 

They loose their sht and come down on the other and saying how could they do something like this and how long have you been a drunk and how long has this being going on and how could you lie to me like this etc etc etc 

And upon fierce interrogation, it turns out that over the years this person has had a glass of wine here, and tried a sip of a cocktail there and a shot of premium whiskey that one time at their cousin Joey's house that Joey brought back from Germany. 

Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc

But to the other person it is an actual existential crisis. 

Is the spouse a drunk or an alcoholic or was that cocktail at the party cause a real world problem??? No, but to our person with the prior trauma, it was an Extinction Level Event that now has them contemplating divorce and falling out of love etc etc etc. 

But to the rest of the world,, it was just a sip of a cocktail at a friends house, people do it all the time and it's a normal part of life. 

This couple needs MC. The OP needs therapy, not because she's crazy but because whatever her prior trauma and insecurities are, they are causing her to flame out over a normal part of human life. People masturbate. She likely masturbates. Men often spank at images of women because men are highly visual in their sexualities. That's simply a reality. 

Just like the spouse of the alcoholic, The OP's H agreed to not be into porn because he really wasn't into porn, but it is completely unrealistic that he will never be aroused at the sight of female images ever. 

This is about HER trauma and insecurity and not that he is any kind of porn abuser or cheater or anything other than a normal, healthy guy living in the real world. 

He may have failed to recognize the depths of her issue with porn. But at the same time, she also has to learn to live in the real world where men are aroused at images of the female and they do masturbate at times. 

They have to come together and he needs to learn about how to keep from unreasonably triggering her porn aversion,  but she also has to learn to differentiate between when he is engaging in inappropriate and toxic behaviour vs when her insecurities and traumas are running amok.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> The woman on TikTok wasn't nude. There is no nudity allowed on TikTok. That is my point. There are no nude women on TikTok. There is more nudity in Times Square NYC than on TikTok. There is no pornography on TikTok. That is unless you consider a TV show like Bay Watch pornography. Maybe the OP does, but that is a ridiculously liberal definition on porn.


Perhaps. But it’s her marriage and she gave him porn of herself. He wants other women. And he lied to her so there could be many other women.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps. But it’s her marriage and she gave him porn of herself. He wants other women. And he lied to her so there could be many other women.


She never said the pictures of her were nude.



SadHeart000 said:


> Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. *Maybe I just carry some old insecurities *but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it.





SadHeart000 said:


> he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s *not full nudity.*





SadHeart000 said:


> It sounds *SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.*
> Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but* told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.*





SadHeart000 said:


> Masterbating is def OK by me… just not to the visual of another person. And to add more, *he has pics of me.* But yea maybe I’m the one needing a therapist. He got one after this happened.


Maybe it is implied, but she never explicitly said they were nudes of her. And given this level of insecurity I would be really surprised if they were full nudes. She definitely didn't call what she gave him porn.


----------



## Lovingwife71

*Deidre* said:


> This.
> 
> The same could be said about alcohol addiction - that too is very easy to access, but no one here would tell the OP to accept alcoholism because it’s easily accessible. Lol


I read a lot of content here but I reply very rarely. I felt I had to reply to this, not to cause problems, but seriously, OP said he was J/O to non nudity on Tik Tok which can hardly be compared to Alcoholism. I would compare that to having a drink every once in a while. Watching hardcore P*rn every day, to the point where he didn't have sex with her at all would be the same as being an alcoholic. He had a sip. He didn't drink the bottle, or even the whole glass for that matter. IMO. So, while I don't condone his lying at ALL, he may have felt (for some reason) he couldn't be honest with her. He is working on it now. It's been a while now, she needs to work it out with him. If she can't, she needs to move on and let him move on. There's plenty of things that are divorce worthy. Personally, I feel this marriage is worth saving. If she doesn't, time to get off the pot.

@oldshirt thanks for the laugh. You make a good point. This exactly:
"Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc

But to the other person it is an actual existential crisis."


----------



## DownByTheRiver

oldshirt said:


> No, actually I am blaming HIM for ever saying that he'd never look at any girly pics in the first place. He was a fool and a simp for ever saying he'd go along with that in the first place.
> 
> This would be like my wife agreeing to never watch any of the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows or any of the 50 Shades material because it triggers my insecurity because I'm not a rich and handsome millionaire.
> 
> He set himself up for failure by agreeing to it in the first place.


He's just a simple liar so that he could get what he wanted.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> Its very different.


TMI, maybe but using myself as an example many non hostile Ms and mutually - we have a frequent and mutually satisfying sex life but started completely honest yes we both may masturbate time to time, not as issues. Hell, I like to watch and help. 

But we were honest from day one. Neither virgins when met. We're just honest and mature. No guaranteed to get caught lying eventually. We are secure in our lives, and in marriage.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> She never said the pictures of her were nude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it is implied, but she never explicitly said they were nudes of her. And given this level of insecurity I would be really surprised if they were full nudes. She definitely didn't call what she gave him porn.


Expecting fidelity and honesty is not insecurity.

She needs to get those pictures back. Now. It may be too late. He doesn’t want them anyway.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Lovingwife71 said:


> I read a lot of content here but I reply very rarely. I felt I had to reply to this, not to cause problems, but seriously, OP said he was J/O to non nudity on Tik Tok which can hardly be compared to Alcoholism. I would compare that to having a drink every once in a while. Watching hardcore P*rn every day, to the point where he didn't have sex with her at all would be the same as being an alcoholic. He had a sip. He didn't drink the bottle, or even the whole glass for that matter. IMO. So, while I don't condone his lying at ALL, he may have felt (for some reason) he couldn't be honest with her. He is working on it now. It's been a while now, she needs to work it out with him. If she can't, she needs to move on and let him move on. There's plenty of things that are divorce worthy. Personally, I feel this marriage is worth saving. If she doesn't, time to get off the pot.
> 
> @oldshirt thanks for the laugh. You make a good point. This exactly:
> "Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc
> 
> But to the other person it is an actual existential crisis."


Sh!t, I'd like that a hundred times.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I really would like to understand what @SadHeart000 considers sexual content and what on TikTok she calls "very graphic sexual content" when there is no sex, no nudity. There are some scantly clad women dancing. That is about it. 

It is hers and her husbands marriage and they can define their boundaries. But even he mentally justified it because they weren't nude, so was it really clear. At the same time I'm sure he fully understands her insecurities, which is why he hid it from her. Again, wrong thing to do. Just me, but the fact that a wife asks her husband a couple times a year if he looked at porn is a sign of an unhealthy level of insecurity. I mean do people ask their spouse on a bi-annual basis if the had sex with someone else?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Expecting fidelity and honesty is not insecurity.


100% agree


----------



## The Narcissist's Wife

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> In advance, I'm not pro or con on this, but if a guy is talking to porn women that is a different ball game, assuredly a no.


Well..its good u think so..but too many dont understand that there is a difference. With such easy access to not only viewing these women but speaking with them via text or talk..the temptation to take it further gets the best of many men.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

TexasMom1216 said:


> _*She knows he masturbates, she gave him naked pictures of herself to use while he does.*_



You know I always love your answers and "like" them, but I had to laugh out loud when I read this.

I'm just being honest when I say this, but I find it laughable that women actually think they can *control* what a man fantasizes about or what he looks at. Maybe in Unicorn World men only desire their wives and don't DARE look at anyone else and ONLY jerk off to their wive's pictures, but in Reality World, the OP isn't being very realistic. I agree the guy is a pig for jerking off when one of his kids could have come in the room and saw him acting the fool, but her expecting him to ONLY look at her pictures is a bit of a stretch. Just sayin'.


----------



## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> The woman on TikTok wasn't nude. There is no nudity allowed on TikTok. That is my point. There are no nude women on TikTok. There is more nudity in Times Square NYC than on TikTok. There is no pornography on TikTok. That is unless you consider a TV show like Bay Watch pornography. Maybe the OP does, but that is a ridiculously liberal definition on porn.


I don't think it matters that she wasn't nude.

Masturbating to other women is a line for some people.

I know it is for me.

Men talk about how important sex is then when they masturbate to women not their wife they say oh it's not big deal.

Newsflash for lots of women it is a big deal.

You say we have to accept it. We say we don't.


----------



## oldshirt

@Diana7 @TexasMom1216 @Ragnar Ragnasson @BigDaddyNY et al

See my post #150. It's a long read and it's one of my analogies, but if this story is true, we are likely dealing with some kind of past trauma or something in the OP where she is highly and probably dispropotionately triggered by anything even resembling porn use. 

Like the child of the alcoholic that they would get beaten and abused by as a child and then have to pick up from the county jail as a teen, she may carry some trauma that triggers her disproportionately to anything that even resembles porn. 

That is a cross that she bears and that she is challenged by and for which causes her angst and distress. 

The OP's H, just like the spouse of the alcoholic's child, he is now walking a fine line between living a normal life where imagery of women, just like alcoholic drinks are part of the fabric of real life. 

And just like it is not realistic for a normal, nonalcoholic person to live an 80 year lifespan and never touch a drop of alcohol to their lips in effort to appease their spouse,,,, so to is not realistic to never enjoy the imagery of the female form. 

Let's all come back down to earth here. He is not a porn abuser. He's not a cheater. He's not neglecting her or denying her love and affection. He is not a park pervert. 

His cross to bear is he is going to have to mind his Ps and Qs a lot more than the typical man in effort to not trigger her insecurities or provoke her past traumas. 

But they are both human. They both have challenges as do we all. She needs to work on healing her trauma and learning constructive ways to deal with her insecurities and being able to differentiate whether he is actually doing something toxic and harmful vs whether it is her own demons that are haunting her. 

And he needs to be more aware and mindful of how deep her wounds are and how to be more careful that he doesn't inadvertently reopen them. 

He doesn't need therapy for porn addiction or to stop masturbating as a grown man. He needs MC so that he is more aware of her trauma and her triggers. And like the 12 year old, he needs to learn to do his business in private so others don't have to be impacted by it. 

And she needs therapy to address her traumas and insecurities and learn more constructive way of dealing with them rather than losing all love and respect and breaking up a family over him doing something that normal, healthy dudes do. 

They are each human and each have their own challenges and imperfections and if they are to remain together in a happy and healthy marriage, they each need to learn to adapt and work together within the realities of their world.


----------



## *Deidre*

Lovingwife71 said:


> I read a lot of content here but I reply very rarely. I felt I had to reply to this, not to cause problems, but seriously, OP said he was J/O to non nudity on Tik Tok which can hardly be compared to Alcoholism. I would compare that to having a drink every once in a while. Watching hardcore P*rn every day, to the point where he didn't have sex with her at all would be the same as being an alcoholic. He had a sip. He didn't drink the bottle, or even the whole glass for that matter. IMO. So, while I don't condone his lying at ALL, he may have felt (for some reason) he couldn't be honest with her. He is working on it now. It's been a while now, she needs to work it out with him. If she can't, she needs to move on and let him move on. There's plenty of things that are divorce worthy. Personally, I feel this marriage is worth saving. If she doesn't, time to get off the pot.
> 
> @oldshirt thanks for the laugh. You make a good point. This exactly:
> "Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc
> 
> But to the other person it is an actual existential crisis."


I would agree but I think the OP commented that she found out he has been lying to her for two years about porn use. I think she just happened to “catch him” in this instance, watching tik tok.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> You say we have to accept it. We say we don't.


Marriage should be between two people. If the man defines what fidelity is, and that definition is elastic so he can make it fit whatever situation in which he finds himself, then it isn't a marriage. If the woman doesn't matter, it's not a marriage. IMO.

She has the right to decide what is acceptable to her in marriage. Whether it's acceptable to US isn't the point. What we know is that he has lied to her face for two years. If he'd lied about ANYTHING other than porn or other women, the answers would be different. 

Now she knows two things: he prefers other women, and he has no problem lying to her. What she does with that information is up to her.


----------



## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> I would agree but I think the OP commented that she found out he has been lying to her for two years about porn use. I think she just happened to “catch him” in this instance, watching tik tok.


Difference is the quote you quoted. Yes he did wreck the car. Her trust and image in her husband is broken. Her desire for him is broken. I'm sure if she stops having sex with him everyone would freak out and say what how can you do that. But he cause her to lose attraction by the lying and having sexual actions with another woman.

So is it divorce worthy? Depends on if she can find attraction again. I don't think telling her to get over it is going to help her find her attraction. So do you have any constructive ways for her to find her husband attractive?


----------



## TexasMom1216

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You know I always love your answers and "like" them, but I had to laugh out loud when I read this.
> 
> I'm just being honest when I say this, but I find it laughable that women actually think they can *control* what a man fantasizes about or what he looks at. Maybe in Unicorn World men only desire their wives and don't DARE look at anyone else and ONLY jerk off to their wive's pictures, but in Reality World, the OP isn't being very realistic. I agree the guy is a pig for jerking off when one of his kids could have come in the room and saw him acting the fool, but her expecting him to ONLY look at her pictures is a bit of a stretch. Just sayin'.


I don't disagree that "no porn" is unrealistic. I wouldn't have set that boundary in my own marriage (and didn't) because I don't think that's a hill to die on. For me, the deal here is that the husband agreed to those terms.

He shouldn't have agreed to them if he wasn't going to respect them. What I'm not buying on here is that it's ok to lie if it's about porn. I don't think it's ok to lie. He wasn't lying to protect her, he was lying to protect himself. It speaks to his character that he has so little respect for her that when she says "no porn and only masturbate to me" he didn't react as you did and laugh and say, that's not going to happen. Then she could process and deal with that answer.

Perhaps being with a man who doesn't want other women IS unrealistic. But she thought she'd found a man who would do that for her.


----------



## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> Marriage should be between two people. If the man defines what fidelity is, and that definition is elastic so he can make it fit whatever situation in which he finds himself, then it isn't a marriage. If the woman doesn't matter, it's not a marriage. IMO.
> 
> She has the right to decide what is acceptable to her in marriage. Whether it's acceptable to US isn't the point. What we know is that he has lied to her face for two years. If he'd lied about ANYTHING other than porn or other women, the answers would be different.
> 
> Now she knows two things: he prefers other women, and he has no problem lying to her. What she does with that information is up to her.


You are 100% correct that we don't matter. 

I should have said.... Some say she has to get over it and accept it... Some of us say she doesn't that masturbating to other women and LYING about it for 2 years isn't something she has to just accept.

I do think it would be more constructive for people to give ideas on how to rebuild the relationship / trust without just saying oh get over it. They would never tell someone whose wife hasn't had sex in 2 years to just get over it. Or someone whose wife blew up to 400 pounds to just get over it. Or an alcholic's wife to just get over it.

I've posted a few suggestions.

@SadHeart000 have you thought about what you want to do? Are you open to working to regain the attraction?
What attracted you to your husband in the first place?
Don't let the endless droning about porn versus not porn get you down. 

If you put some more thoughts out there MOST of us will be respectful and turn the conversation in a direction you are interested in.... There are always a few that will not.


----------



## TexasMom1216

@SadHeart000, only you know how to move forward with this. If you ignore all the "porn is life" posts, it seems the real issue is trust. You trusted him and now you don't know if you can any more.

I would get your pictures back FIRST. No matter what you decide to do about the marriage, don't give him compromising pictures of you. 

If you decide to move forward, you will have to redefine the parameters of your relationship. It is not true that you don't get a say, you DO get a say. I agree that therapy, for you and for the both of you, is really important. 

Most of all, let us know how you're doing.


----------



## *Deidre*

Anastasia6 said:


> Difference is the quote you quoted. Yes he did wreck the car. Her trust and image in her husband is broken. Her desire for him is broken. I'm sure if she stops having sex with him everyone would freak out and say what how can you do that. But he cause her to lose attraction by the lying and having sexual actions with another woman.
> 
> So is it divorce worthy? Depends on if she can find attraction again. I don't think telling her to get over it is going to help her find her attraction. So do you have any constructive ways for her to find her husband attractive?


I looked back at the quote - I was agreeing with the post I quoted but went into a separate thought in the same post. Yea, that’s confusing; I should have posted it in a stand alone post. My comment was based on knowing the lying went on for two years, etc

I’m not telling her to “get over it,” so is that quote to the group?


----------



## In Absentia

*Deidre* said:


> The thing is, there are things that hurt men in marriages. Suppose the OP refused to change and kept doing those very things, that hurt her husband. Y’all would be like “kick her to the curb, she’s a liar!”
> 
> Porn is something they discussed and the fact that he lied likely changes how she sees her husband now, and the marriage feels like it’s not what she thought. That’s really the point, that it changes how you see your spouse if they lie to you.


I agree... as I said before, he shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. Now, of course, he lied, so it changes everything. Personally, I would forgive the husband, but that's just me...


----------



## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> I looked back at the quote - I was agreeing with the post I quoted but went into a separate thought in the same post. Yea, that’s confusing; I should have posted it in a stand alone post. My comment was based on knowing the lying went on for two years, etc
> 
> I’m not telling her to “get over it,” so is that quote to the group?


No you were quoting someone who was quoting old shirt

@oldshirt thanks for the laugh. You make a good point. This exactly:
"Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc

ETA: doesn't matter... what matters is the rest where I think as a group we should concentrate on helping the OP. Telling her to get over it isn't going to change her attraction to her husband.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> I agree... as I said before, he shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. Now, of course, he lied, so it changes everything. Personally, I would forgive the husband, but that's just me...


You're the husband, of course you'd forgive the husband... 😂 😉😁

I'm of course not implying you'd lie like the husband did, I'm making a joke about dudes supporting other dudes. Trying to keep it light. Bros before hos and all that. Not that anyone here is a ho. I'm digging a hole here, aren't I? 🙄 😂


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

In Absentia said:


> I agree... as I said before, he shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. Now, of course, he lied, so it changes everything. Personally, I would forgive the husband, but that's just me...


That's the most logical. But the better answer is honey, I haven't done anything I need to be forgiven for.


----------



## *Deidre*

In Absentia said:


> I agree... as I said before, he shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. Now, of course, he lied, so it changes everything. Personally, I would forgive the husband, but that's just me...


Yea, definitely be careful what you agree to. lol 

I don’t consider porn use infidelity really, but some women do. If this is a dealbreaker for the OP, only she can decide where she goes next. That said, we tend to read threads where the issues are very surface level and there may be many layers to this problem beyond what we’re reading about. Counseling usually can unpack all those issues but on here, we have little to go on.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's the most logical. But the better answer is honey, I haven't done anything I need to be forgiven for.


Yes he should invalidate her feelings........


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> You're the husband, of course you'd forgive the husband... 😂 😉😁
> 
> I'm of course not implying you'd lie like the husband did, I'm making a joke about dudes supporting other dudes. Trying to keep it light. Bros before hos and all that. Not that anyone here is a ho. I'm digging a hole here, aren't I? 🙄 😂


But you're doing it honestly and sincerely contributing to an important topic for the OP.
👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's the most logical. But the better answer is honey, I haven't done anything I need to be forgiven for.


This is actually a good idea. If he's going to be the only one who defines the parameters in their relationship, she needs to know that. If her feelings don't matter to him, she needs to know that. They can't move forward until she knows how he really feels about her, and dismissing her concerns and telling her to suck it up would let her know really quickly where he stands.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is actually a good idea. If he's going to be the only one who defines the parameters in their relationship, she needs to know that. If her feelings don't matter to him, she needs to know that. They can't move forward until she knows how he really feels about her, and dismissing her concerns and telling her to suck it up would let her know really quickly where he stands.


Now, he never said her feelings don't matter ever to him. I very much doubt that's true. And he has told her many times how he feels about her, that he loves her, and the fact he devotes most of his efforts, time and money to her well being and family well being are actons he SHOWS his love for her is real, very observable demonstrations of his love.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now, he never said her feelings don't matter ever to him. I very much doubt that's true.


Actions speak pretty loudly. But that's for her to decide. I hope she comes back and tells us how she's doing.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> You're the husband, of course you'd forgive the husband... 😂 😉😁
> 
> I'm of course not implying you'd lie like the husband did, I'm making a joke about dudes supporting other dudes. Trying to keep it light. Bros before hos and all that. Not that anyone here is a ho. I'm digging a hole here, aren't I? 🙄 😂


I wouldn't have got into that position in the first place. And I wouldn't have married a woman who controlled my use of porn, by banning it from my life. I like a bit a tolerance and laissez-faire in a marriage.


----------



## In Absentia

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's the most logical. But the better answer is honey, I haven't done anything I need to be forgiven for.


He lied, unfortunately.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Actions speak pretty loudly. But that's for her to decide. I hope she comes back and tells us how she's doing.


You've got to quote my entire post for context so I'm not being represented incorrectly.

My entire response that you edited like a CNN journalist is this:

Now, he never said her feelings don't matter ever to him. I very much doubt that's true. And he has told her many times how he feels about her, that he loves her, and the fact he devotes most of his efforts, time and money to her well being and family well being are actons he SHOWS his love for her is real, very observable demonstrations of his love.


----------



## oldshirt

Anastasia6 said:


> No you were quoting someone who was quoting old shirt
> 
> @oldshirt thanks for the laugh. You make a good point. This exactly:
> "Now our person is in a tizzy and feel that they have been lied to and decieved and manipulated all these years..... and there spouse is sitting there not knowing their head from their azz over what the problem is, yeah he/she had a drink here or there but they didn't get drunk, they didn't wreck the car, they didn't come home and kick the dog or get an OWI etc
> 
> ETA: doesn't matter... what matters is the rest where I think as a group we should concentrate on helping the OP. Telling her to get over it isn't going to change her attraction to her husband.


I've never said she should just get over it. 

I've said she needs to address whatever her trauma is and address her insecurities so that she can make an informed decision based on realities and not assumptions and her own insecurities. 

In other words is he actually doing something harmful and bad, or she she having a disproportional reaction to some past trauma or irrational fear? That's something that she and a professional therapist may need to determine. 

It's kind of like you walk into the bathroom and you see a big scary spider in the bathtub. If you start screaming and running through the house in a panic looking for a flamethrower or calling your husband home from work to deal with it, that is probably an irrational fear and insecurity over something that you could literally walk over and step on or take a wad of toilet paper and smash it and throw it in the trash. 

Where as if you feel a sting on your arm in the night and you turn on the light and there is a black widow biting you, you have cause to smack it and jump out of bed and seek medical attention. 

Therapy is to help differentiate between that which is a legit threat vs that which is an disproportional response to past trauma. 

In this case is he going down the rabbit hole porn abuse and transferring his attentions and focus onto an electronic screen and neglecting her needs and depriving her of attention and affection and neglecting his responsibilities in the home and family?

Or did she walk in on him catching a quick spank and it flooding her with triggers and baggage from a past trauma? 

As she is posting this in the considering divorce section, that probably means she is considering divorce over this. If she is going to break up a family with young children over this, it would behoove her to explore whether this is a bona fide problem with him and withing their marriage, or whether it is a disproportional response to something that happened to her in her past. 

So I am NOT saying she should just get over it. 

I am actually saying the exact opposite and that she needs to address this seriously and professionally.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You've got to quote my entire post for context so I'm not being represented incorrectly.
> 
> My entire response that you edited like a CNN journalist is this:
> 
> Now, he never said her feelings don't matter ever to him. I very much doubt that's true. And he has told her many times how he feels about her, that he loves her, and the fact he devotes most of his efforts, time and money to her well being and family well being are actons he SHOWS his love for her is real, very observable demonstrations of his love.


Did you post just the first line and then go back and edit it? Because when I quoted it, it only had the one line. That happens to me too and it's fair that the entire post should be there for context, but I truly didn't do that. Wow, CNN? Low blow, dude. 😉😂

I don't disagree that there is a big picture to look at. But can you see her side too? Why did he agree to this rule if he wasn't going to keep his word? Why didn't he talk to her about her expectations being unrealistic if that's how he felt?

You're also making the argument that if he pays the bills and comes home at night, that's all she can ask. I disagree that the definition of fidelity should be a fluid definition set only by the man. She gets a say. Now, if her expectation is unrealistic, he should tell her that. I think you are the one who said this is basically a mess of his own making. That's very true. Her "no porn" expectation is unrealistic. I mean, even 22 year old porn stars are only 22 for one year, and most of them don't have children. We can't stay young and perfect forever, no matter how hard we try. But she should have a conversation with him about it, like she did before they married, and explain how she feels, and then he should tell her HONESTLY how he feels. If he needs other women, then she can take that information and deal with it as she chooses. But she deserves the truth. I hope she gets it.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did you post just the first line and then go back and edit it? Because when I quoted it, it only had the one line. That happens to me too and it's fair that the entire post should be there for context, but I truly didn't do that. Wow, CNN? Low blow, dude. 😉😂
> 
> I don't disagree that there is a big picture to look at. But can you see her side too? Why did he agree to this rule if he wasn't going to keep his word? Why didn't he talk to her about her expectations being unrealistic if that's how he felt?
> 
> You're also making the argument that if he pays the bills and comes home at night, that's all she can ask. I disagree that the definition of fidelity should be a fluid definition set only by the man. She gets a say. Now, if her expectation is unrealistic, he should tell her that. I think you are the one who said this is basically a mess of his own making. That's very true. Her "no porn" expectation is unrealistic. I mean, even 22 year old porn stars are only 22 for one year, and most of them don't have children. We can't stay young and perfect forever, no matter how hard we try. But she should have a conversation with him about it, like she did before they married, and explain how she feels, and then he should tell her HONESTLY how he feels. If he needs other women, then she can take that information and deal with it as she chooses. But she deserves the truth. I hope she gets it.


No I didn't edit the post other than a bonehead typo, unless another edited it in a different post. 

I don't disagree with any of your responses here, in fact I agree with your points. Well said.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did you post just the first line and then go back and edit it? Because when I quoted it, it only had the one line. That happens to me too and it's fair that the entire post should be there for context, but I truly didn't do that. Wow, CNN? Low blow, dude. 😉😂
> 
> I don't disagree that there is a big picture to look at. But can you see her side too? Why did he agree to this rule if he wasn't going to keep his word? Why didn't he talk to her about her expectations being unrealistic if that's how he felt?
> 
> You're also making the argument that if he pays the bills and comes home at night, that's all she can ask. I disagree that the definition of fidelity should be a fluid definition set only by the man. She gets a say. Now, if her expectation is unrealistic, he should tell her that. I think you are the one who said this is basically a mess of his own making. That's very true. Her "no porn" expectation is unrealistic. I mean, even 22 year old porn stars are only 22 for one year, and most of them don't have children. We can't stay young and perfect forever, no matter how hard we try. But she should have a conversation with him about it, like she did before they married, and explain how she feels, and then he should tell her HONESTLY how he feels. If he needs other women, then she can take that information and deal with it as she chooses. But she deserves the truth. I hope she gets it.


I didn't say if he pays the bills he alone sets the rules, far from it in a good M.

I truly believe he agreed in the beginning years ago because that's what she wanted to hear and as a guy he answered ok.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

If a person thinks that they will be offended to the point of divorcing the other over the use of porn. I suggest you might not want to get married. It's not my opinion, but a fact that more and more people are watching porn in this digital age. 

I can understand the OP is offended by it and that is fine. I encourage talking about it, and to see a sex therapist. The extreme remedy would be medication to eliminate sexual drive, but I think that is a silly idea. But finding a spouse who you are compatible with and also truly has no interest in porn ever, will be like finding a needle in a wide open pasture..... Again, not my opinion. But from years of working with guys at every level from laborer to executive levels, porn is a reality to some level. Most all spouses who claim their spouse never watched just haven't caught them. If they really took the time to monitor over time, they would find out about it. Also the interest in porn typically drops the older you get. I remember back in my teens I viewed it far more than now. The wife and I occasionally watch it together to get the mood really going. When we were in mid 20s, we would watch a couple of times a week. Now that we are closer to 40, it might be once every couple of months.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No I didn't edit the post other than a bonehead typo, unless another edited it in a different post.
> 
> I don't disagree with any of your responses here, in fact I agree with your points. Well said.


Weird, I thought I'd gotten the whole post. Maybe I didn't, I'm doing a lot of things at once. I apologize though, the LAST thing I want to be is like someone from CNN. 😉


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Weird, I thought I'd gotten the whole post. Maybe I didn't, I'm doing a lot of things at once. I apologize though, the LAST thing I want to be is like someone from CNN. 😉


And I'm just kidding good naturedly there on the CNN thing. I know truly you're not a man hater or grouchy person. You make a lot of good points in many threads and I enjoy reading them.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Actions speak pretty loudly. But that's for her to decide. I hope she comes back and tells us how she's doing.


His actions are that he went to therapy. 

So I would call that way above and beyond for getting caught trying to have a quick spank in the morning. 

But that's fine. This whole thing does need to be addressed including her addressing her insecurities and why she is contemplating divorcing what she describes as a good man and a good marriage or him sneaking a peek at some stupid tik tok video. 

She needs therapy to address her past trauma and extreme insecurity and they both need MC so they can have better understanding of each other and can each find common ground and deal with each other's temperments and individual idiosyncracies.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> His actions are that he went to therapy.
> 
> So I would call that way above and beyond for getting caught trying to have a quick spank in the morning.
> 
> But that's fine. This whole thing does need to be addressed including her addressing her insecurities and why she is contemplating divorcing what she describes as a good man and a good marriage or him sneaking a peek at some stupid tik tok video.
> 
> She needs therapy to address her past trauma and extreme insecurity and they both need MC so they can have better understanding of each other and can each find common ground and deal with each other's temperments and individual idiosyncracies.


Let him turn into a truly bad, mean, a$$h0le, irresponsible and uncaring H for a few weeks.

That would show the real difference to her.
I'm not saying he should but without something to demonstrate true difference the good isn't always appreciated.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't think it matters that she wasn't nude.
> 
> *Masturbating to other women is a line for some people.*
> 
> I know it is for me.
> 
> Men talk about how important sex is then when they masturbate to women not their wife they say oh it's not big deal.
> 
> Newsflash for lots of women it is a big deal.
> 
> You say we have to accept it. We say we don't.


That wasn't the line that @SadHeart000 said they agreed to. It was no porn/sexual content. Did they ever actually define what that meant? Porn is pretty clear. Sexual content, I'm not so sure Apparently the OP thinks non-nude TikToks are sexual content, but the husband was at least justifying it to himself because they women weren't nude, so certainly not porn. 

If during these "check-ins" what did she actually ask him? Did she ask him if he viewed any porn? Did she ask him if he viewed any "sexual content"? Did she ask him if he looked at any other women? It really seems kind of absurd to me. I think @oldshirt is on to something. There has to something in her past to make her this sensitive. Which is also why I doubt she actually gave him nude pictures of herself. She never said they were nude. There is a lack of clarity and many are filling in the blanks. 

Why is she only asking him about this? Why not worse offenses? Why not ask him if he hired a hooker or had a ONS? She has every right to not want her husband to watch porn. But to be asking a couple times a year for a decade about whether or not he masturbated to a non-nude pic or video of a woman sounds truly unhealthy. I really do think she does need some type of therapy to deal with this astronomical level of insecurity.


----------



## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> Weird, I thought I'd gotten the whole post. Maybe I didn't, I'm doing a lot of things at once. I apologize though, the LAST thing I want to be is like someone from CNN. 😉


you did he went back and edited it. I say the one line then your post then the paragraph


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> I've never said she should just get over it.
> 
> I've said she needs to address whatever her trauma is and address her insecurities so that she can make an informed decision based on realities and not assumptions and her own insecurities.
> 
> In other words is he actually doing something harmful and bad, or she she having a disproportional reaction to some past trauma or irrational fear? That's something that she and a professional therapist may need to determine.
> 
> It's kind of like you walk into the bathroom and you see a big scary spider in the bathtub. If you start screaming and running through the house in a panic looking for a flamethrower or calling your husband home from work to deal with it, that is probably an irrational fear and insecurity over something that you could literally walk over and step on or take a wad of toilet paper and smash it and throw it in the trash.
> 
> Where as if you feel a sting on your arm in the night and you turn on the light and there is a black widow biting you, you have cause to smack it and jump out of bed and seek medical attention.
> 
> Therapy is to help differentiate between that which is a legit threat vs that which is an disproportional response to past trauma.
> 
> In this case is he going down the rabbit hole porn abuse and transferring his attentions and focus onto an electronic screen and neglecting her needs and depriving her of attention and affection and neglecting his responsibilities in the home and family?
> 
> Or did she walk in on him catching a quick spank and it flooding her with triggers and baggage from a past trauma?
> 
> As she is posting this in the considering divorce section, that probably means she is considering divorce over this. If she is going to break up a family with young children over this, it would behoove her to explore whether this is a bona fide problem with him and withing their marriage, or whether it is a disproportional response to something that happened to her in her past.
> 
> So I am NOT saying she should just get over it.
> 
> I am actually saying the exact opposite and that she needs to address this seriously and professionally.


I do think D here would be going overboard, too. 

I mean she's never said she's never masturbated at all the entire M. That's a relevant question.


----------



## TexasMom1216

I’m worried she won’t come back. I’m afraid all the vitriol about “how dare she think she has a say in her husbands sex life” ran her off.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I truly believe he agreed in the beginning years ago because that's what she wanted to hear and as a guy he answered ok.


We call this "lying." Just saying. What else is he lying about? What else has he unilaterally decided is acceptable in marriage that he didn't bother to communicate to her?

She needs to find out. And get her pictures back.


----------



## oldshirt

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I truly believe he agreed in the beginning years ago because that's what she wanted to hear and as a guy he answered ok.


Yeah, it's just like my alcoholic analogy.

If someone said to me that they will not tolerate any drunkeness or alcoholism or any alcohol issues, I am going to say that is fine as I am a non drinker. I don't go to bars. I'd rather stick sharp objects in my eyes rather than go to some kind of drinking party. I would never get behind the wheel after drinking. I never gotten mean or impulsive or irresponsible if I've had something to drink. And alcohol plays virtually no role in my life. 

But the part that may go over my head is that the person with previous trauma from alcohol is being LITERAL. They literally mean they would not have any tolerance for a drop of alcohol on my lips - EVER. 

What would be going through my head and what I would be agreeing to would be to not become a drunk, not come home drunk and stupid and stumble around the house, not get any OWIs or alcohol related police events, not miss work due to hangovers etc etc 

I would never knowingly agree to NEVER touch a drop of alcohol for the 50-60 years regardless of any circumstances. 

That is where this whole "He Lied!!" thing is coming from. 

It's not so much that he lied or deceived her or pulled one over on her. It's that he did not understand the depth and literal and extreme nature of what he was unknowlingly agreeing to. 

It's one thing to say that you won't engage in actual hardcore pornography to any problematic degree. Heck even I of all people ascribe to that and very frequently urge people to knock off the porn here. 

But to take it to the nth to where he can never look at a clothed female image with appreciation is wholly unrealistic and just plain nutty. 

And it is maladaptive and likely due to some kind of unresolved trauma or phobia that needs addressing.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Let him turn into a truly bad, mean, a$$h0le, irresponsible and uncaring H for a few weeks.
> 
> That would show the real difference to her.
> I'm not saying he should but without something to demonstrate true difference the good isn't always appreciated.


This is horrible advice. I mean, I guess a guy who uses porn is better than a guy who beats her, but is that really the line? I realize that's not what you're saying, but that whole "give me what I want or I'll give you something to cry about" nonsense is just destructive and bullying, whether the man OR the woman does it. That's not marriage, that's a hostage situation.


----------



## Anastasia6

TexasMom1216 said:


> We call this "lying." Just saying. What else is he lying about? What else has he unilaterally decided is acceptable in marriage that he didn't bother to communicate to her?
> 
> She needs to find out. And get her pictures back.


Also how is it controlling to believe you married someone with your same values and find out they don't have those same values?

As a side note the husband realized he had hurt her and has stopped again (supposedly). So he isn't just asking her to accept it or deflect or change the values in their marriage. So the men arguing for porn aren't really representing the husband who hasn't said he has a problem abstaining from such things.


----------



## In Absentia

All this bother for a little wank...


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Also how is it controlling to believe you married someone with your same values and find out they don't have those same values?
> 
> As a side note the husband realized he had hurt her and has stopped again (supposedly). So he isn't just asking her to accept it or deflect or change the values in their marriage. So the men arguing for porn aren't really representing the husband who hasn't said he has a problem abstaining from such things.


I just hope they're getting counselling. If he needs other women, she needs to know that. It would be worse if moving forward he's just really careful to lie and cover up. Untreated STDs are dangerous, she needs to know if her health is in danger.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> you did he went back and edited it. I say the one line then your post then the paragraph


I don't believe I edited beyond said typo within a few seconds of reading the autocorrect in the post. But believe whatever you want, ok with me.


----------



## Rob_1

Diana7 said:


> It's irrelevant whether most men look at porn (many actually don't), it's also about him lying and deceiving her about it. Just because most people do something doesn't make it right or that we should accept it and do nothing about it.
> She rightly doesn't want it in her marriage, and why should she, but he has decieved her.



re read what I wrote. Where am I saying anything on the contrary? show me where.

My point to her has been that what she's looking for in a man although not impossible it will be very difficult to achieve.

Any way, if she has such strong moral values and boundaries with respect to porn, my question is; why is she still in this marriage? why is she just being, a co parent roommate to the husband? why hasn't she already served him with divorce papers? isn't this the correct logical step for a person whose partner broke their boundaries? In my opinion that's lack of self respect and weak boundaries.

If those porn boundaries were so strong to me, then I would have divorced already, Not?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is horrible advice. I mean, I guess a guy who uses porn is better than a guy who beats her, but is that really the line? I realize that's not what you're saying, but that whole "give me what I want or I'll give you something to cry about" nonsense is just destructive and bullying, whether the man OR the woman does it. That's not marriage, that's a hostage situation.


The point is in some circumstances, if living within their limited experiences no one appreciates the good unless they have a truthful opposing bad situation to compare it to.

Like someone who lives in a warm climate and in winter complains outrageously and on and on being miserably at 68degF, but has never ever been in a truly cold region like New York or Maine, pick any snow and ice area.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The point is in some circumstances, if living within their limited experiences no one appreciates the good unless they have a truthful opposing bad situation to compare it to.
> 
> Like someone who lives in a warm climate and in winter complains outrageously and on and on being miserably at 68degF, but has never ever been in a truly cold region like New York or Maine, pick any snow and ice area.


So he’s broken her heart and shaken up her world by lying to her for years and the next step is the “180” where he refuses to speak to her or participate in the marriage or family until she gives him whatever he wants, whenever he wants, without question. I’m sure that will make her super appreciative.


----------



## SadHeart000

I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.

Couple things I wanted to throw out first:

1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist. 
2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...

But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku. 

2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.

Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.

Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.

Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.

I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.

The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.

My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life. 
But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that. 

So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.

We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
We've had a couple dates without the babies.

I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.

@Anastasia6 @TexasMom1216 @*Deidre* @MattMatt @Diana7 @BigDaddyNY @Ragnar Ragnasson @oldshirt 
I'm sure I missed some folks but thank you engaging in this topic. Even though I don't agree with everything that has been said I like to have other people's view to ponder. Realizing that they only have the sparknotes version of whats happening and filling in the blanks with their own ideologies and beliefs.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> We call this "lying." Just saying. What else is he lying about? What else has he unilaterally decided is acceptable in marriage that he didn't bother to communicate to her?
> 
> She needs to find out. And get her pictures back.


Y'all are getting way too fast and loose with the words 'lying' and 'porn' etc. 

Nothing in her posts indicate he is a bad man or a lier or park pervert or anything so let's all sit down and really challenge ourselves and let's make a concerted effort to try to use a little common sense and discernment here and try to look at how the world really works in practical application. 

If he has been a good father and good husband and a good marriage for the past decade, then let's put our thinking caps on and consider that he may have been acting in good faith when he agreed to not be pulling up Brazilian oil orgies and Anal Slvts in Heat #9. 

When he agreed to not be indulging in porn, he was most likely agreeing in good faith to not be indulging in actual porn and actual sexually explicit content. Tik Tok wasn't even a thing at that time. 

So it is a big stretch to say that he was lying about porn because he looked at some gal wiggling her clothed behind infront of a mirror on tik tok 10 years later. 

Let's please for the love of puppies and butterflies try to have a little common sense here. 

He may not have grasped the depth of her issue with porn and may not have grasped the extreme literal nature of what she was asking of him. I will give her (and you and Texas) that. He failed to understand the lengths and depths of her aversion. I will concede that and I will concede that he was acting in a immature and sophomoric manner when he was playing with his junk in broad daylight when anyone could have come walking in. 

But he could not have understood the extreme nature of her request and not understood that it meant not looking at ANY woman and would have applied to clothed women on a media platform that did not even exist at that time. 

Let's at least try to be a little bit realistic and use some common sense here.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

In Absentia said:


> All this bother for a little wank...


I agree..... I believe much of what is being said is extreme. About as extreme as suggesting a person being admitted to the psych ward for breaking down and crying. The level of rigid rules and zero flexibility ever during a marriage is a huge cause for divorce down the road.

I believe we need to look at the bigger picture here. If a person becomes this upset to the brink of divorce over some porn. I would question their ability to handle more serious issues with marriage down the road.


----------



## Anastasia6

SadHeart000 said:


> I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.
> 
> Couple things I wanted to throw out first:
> 
> 1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist.
> 2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
> 3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...
> 
> But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku.
> 
> 2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.
> 
> Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.
> 
> Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.
> 
> Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.
> 
> I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.
> 
> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.
> 
> @Anastasia6 @TexasMom1216 @*Deidre* @MattMatt @Diana7 @BigDaddyNY @Ragnar Ragnasson @oldshirt
> I'm sure I missed some folks but thank you engaging in this topic. Even though I don't agree with everything that has been said I like to have other people's view to ponder. Realizing that they only have the sparknotes version of whats happening and filling in the blanks with their own ideologies and beliefs.


I'm glad he's trying to right the ship and that you are too. You are not naïve. He probably wasn't using before the pandemic. My husband doesn't use. also doesn't have a tiktok account and I have full access to his facebook which he also really doesn't use.

Can I suggest continuing to write appreciation. It sounds like you have talked enough. Maybe try getting back so some routine things as well. Also tantric sex exploration may help build some bonds as well.


----------



## oldshirt

SadHeart000 said:


> I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.
> 
> Couple things I wanted to throw out first:
> 
> 1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist.
> 2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
> 3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...
> 
> But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku.
> 
> 2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.
> 
> Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.
> 
> Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.
> 
> Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.
> 
> I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.
> 
> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.
> 
> @Anastasia6 @TexasMom1216 @*Deidre* @MattMatt @Diana7 @BigDaddyNY @Ragnar Ragnasson @oldshirt
> I'm sure I missed some folks but thank you engaging in this topic. Even though I don't agree with everything that has been said I like to have other people's view to ponder. Realizing that they only have the sparknotes version of whats happening and filling in the blanks with their own ideologies and beliefs.


I'm glad you came back and didn't run for the hills over our bickering. 

We all have some very different perspectives and insights on things and we often disagree and bicker amongst ourselves, but please don't let that deter you. We all want to help and we all want things to work out well for you in the end. We just have different thoughts and outlooks and perspectives on the matter. 

None of us are professionals. We are just people who's hobby is talking about other people's relationship problems. 

But many of us have been there and done that and came out the other side, so some of this may be helpful and some not so much. 

Don't be scared off or take anything as a personal attack on you. We all want the best for you. 

If nothing else, stick around and enjoy the show and find some amusement in watching some of us act like monkeys throwing poop at each other LOL


----------



## Anastasia6

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I agree..... I believe much of what is being said is extreme. About as extreme as suggesting a person being admitted to the psych ward for breaking down and crying. The level of rigid rules and zero flexibility ever during a marriage is a huge cause for divorce down the road.
> 
> I believe we need to look at the bigger picture here. If a person becomes this upset to the brink of divorce over some porn. I would question their ability to handle more serious issues with marriage down the road.


you do know each marriage sets their own rules and boundaries. I happen to have a very strong healthy marriage. We don't do porn and yes if I found my husband watching porn and masturbating there would be some discussions and heartbreak. However, if a person is in a marriage they talk to each other and work to not hurt the other person. Most marriage is there is a misstep then there is discussion and change. So it doesn't mean divorce over one thing though that depends on the thing. 

However if my husband was watching porn and masturbating and then refused to address the situation then yes divorce would most likely follow. BUT her husband realizes the damage it has done. So looks like their marriage may make it if she can regain her attraction.


----------



## Blondilocks

Since he thinks he may have a problem with being addicted to the internet, he can always go back to a flip phone and shut down that attraction.


----------



## *Deidre*

SadHeart000 said:


> I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.
> 
> Couple things I wanted to throw out first:
> 
> 1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist.
> 2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
> 3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...
> 
> But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku.
> 
> 2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.
> 
> Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.
> 
> Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.
> 
> Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.
> 
> I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.
> 
> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.
> 
> @Anastasia6 @TexasMom1216 @*Deidre* @MattMatt @Diana7 @BigDaddyNY @Ragnar Ragnasson @oldshirt
> I'm sure I missed some folks but thank you engaging in this topic. Even though I don't agree with everything that has been said I like to have other people's view to ponder. Realizing that they only have the sparknotes version of whats happening and filling in the blanks with their own ideologies and beliefs.


I’m happy to see you are both trying to work on things and your point of view on it, as well. It’s a really refreshing post to see how well you both communicate and that it’s entirely possible to be very hurt over something but still value the other person/relationship. And much respect to your husband for listening and respecting how hurt you have been over this. Best of luck to you!


----------



## Music4Life

Diana7 said:


> Dont know whether to laugh or cry at this post. So men watching porn is ALL the women's fault. By the same token its ok for the guy to go and cheat if his wife wont let him do certain things in sex?????If something is wrong its wrong. Its ok for us to act badly just because someone else is acting badly? Okey dokey.
> 
> Plus you are wrong. Many women who have come here have said they do whatever their husband wants in sex but they still go to porn. Its just not true.
> Regardless of this, all women (and men) have the right to expect their spouse not to bring others into their marriage through porn but to focus solely on each other. Has it occurred to you that some women may not want sex with their spouse BECAUSE they watch porn? That the porn watching may take all their attraction and respect away from their spouse? It would definitely be the case with me and others have said the same.
> 
> OP has every right to expect her husband not to do this and not to lie and deceive. He has already married her under false pretenses and that was bad enough. I hope she stands strong over this.


You're taking what I said and taking it to the extreme. What I'm saying is a big picture concept. Freak out about this or relax about sexuality from a mental standpoint? So often sex in marriage becomes a battle of wills, instead of a union of wills. And no I'm not wrong - just because women say they do whatever their husband wants, does not mean they actually do. Husbands go by what their wife actually does, not what they say. What it boils down to, again, is a desire for too much control. If my wife told me that she masturbates, I'd be like hmmm....maybe I'll watch or we'll add that to our bedroom fun. That's why men and women are so very different. What I'm saying is that when the roles are reversed, men are more apt to be cool. about it. Not sex with another person cool - but if she liked certain visuals sometimes or she has that toy that she really likes (ya'll don't wanna talk about that tho) - then go for it. I'm not gonna police every second of her private time. It's similar to why I don't go through my wife's phone or emails. It's just not healthy and at some point maturing in relationships, we should reach the understanding that it's really no helpful to be controlling or keeping tabs on a person - especially your spouse. Been there done that - there's more freedom on my side of things. An actual physical encounter would be totally different.


----------



## LisaDiane

SadHeart000 said:


> I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.
> 
> Couple things I wanted to throw out first:
> 
> 1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist.
> 2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
> 3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...
> 
> But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku.
> 
> 2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.
> 
> Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.
> 
> Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.
> 
> Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.
> 
> I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.
> 
> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.


I think you do need more time to get over your surprise and DISAPPOINTMENT...but don't take too much longer.

That is really what you are dealing with as the biggest block to restoring your feelings of love and connection -- disappointment. You are having to come to terms with the fact that you didn't get what you wanted and hoped for...your husband isn't "perfect" in this area, he has flaws and weaknesses, just like everyone...just like YOU do.

You aren't entitled to control over his sexuality, he gave that to you as a GIFT. So you have been able to hide from the reality that he is probably very turned on by alot of women he sees every day. You haven't learned to cope with his real sexuality, and to see that it's not a threat. So what happened feels very threatening to you, and I definitely understand why.

But the thing is, his arousal is not an emotional response at all, it's biological. It's meaningless to him, except as a brief body function. His arousal and desire for YOU are both biological AND emotional, and full of meaning for him. Images on a screen have no real value to him, except like scratching an itch or sneezing. He got carried away with it, but it sounds like he betrayed HIMSELF and HIS values, he didn't betray you.

Yes, he lied. But he was ashamed. Shame is very toxic and most humans WILL lie when they feel shame, because of fear. He didn't lie so he could trick you and take advantage of your trust. That is what MY ex-husband did, and believe me, there is an enormous difference.

What you need to be careful of now is allowing your disappointment with his "imperfection" to remain in your heart and mind. You both need to move past this as quickly as possible, so it doesn't become bigger than it is, and changes both of your feelings for eachother. Like I said, shame is a terrible, destructive force for ourselves and our relationships, and nurturing it is a dangerous mistake. 

You need to FORGIVE him, and it might help you to try to just RELEASE your feelings of unhappiness and loving the man you have. You have a wonderful opportunity right now to see him (and him to see you) as the not-perfect, REAL humans that you are, and to CHOOSE to love eachother anyway. You aren't perfect either, you have disappointed him at times too, I'm sure. The goal is to deepen your knowledge of eachother from this, and to make the choice to come together with acceptance and love eachother in spite of that.

If I were you, I would take another day or two to feel bad for myself and what happened, and then I would drop it like a sack of bricks and purposefully walk away from it and start loving him again.


----------



## Rob_1

SadHeart000 said:


> Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.
> 
> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


You need to understand that a lot of the the replies are based not just in the breaking of your boundaries, but what you also wrote at the end. see above.

Now, with your latest post, it paints a different scenario for replays. To me, now it reads as a broken boundary that you can be willing to engage in repairing. That's what I read now, when before your message conveyed a sense of finality.


----------



## Rob_1

DownByTheRiver said:


> Doesn't mean you have to marry one.


and I never say so. That's why my opening was "mind as well become single".


----------



## Music4Life

@oldshirt, good points


----------



## Anastasia6

Music4Life said:


> Exactly! This is why guys have to stop lying to women. Tell the truth. My wife knew early on that I like women. That's why I wanted her. Even as we got more serious and eventually married, she needed to know that I am a man. I notice boobs and butts and beautiful women. I show her things I like. Have a crush on our local weather woman - she knows it! I have never cheated and never will. But just to know that she can't control my sexual nature, I think made her respect me more gave her a chance to see that even though I am definitely hot blooded male, that I'm responsible with her heart and her feelings. So many of the women get so caught up in their own idealism, that the man never gets a chance to write and rules. And most of that is the men's fault for allowing it.


Is this supposed to be helpful to the OP or some generic conversation about men and rules? She is already married....


----------



## oldshirt

SadHeart000 said:


> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him.


Reconciling the head and the heart is what therapy is for.

We feel what we feel in our hearts whether our head agrees with it or not.

Therapy can help bring the two together.

You seem as a perfectly intelligent, articulate and self aware person, so even you yourself realize in an intellectual basis that your emotional response to this is way out of proportion to the actual stimulus.

Yet your heart still hurts nonetheless. 

The punishment in your heart does not for the crime. 

As I have said in some posts above, his role and failing in this is not grasping the depth of your issue with imagery.

And your role is the disproportionate response to him trying to grab a quick yank.

Both of those are treatable with therapy and marital counseling (MC).

The fact that both of you want to work things out and be good with each other again is highly encouraging.

I see no reason that this can’t be worked out with a little professional refereeing and coaching on constructive conflict resolution skills and addressing your underlying insecurities and doing a little coaching with him on how to beat avoid any unnecessary triggering. 

I’m probably one of the harshest people on this board to tell people to kick their abusive or manipulative partner to the curb, but I think this is entirely fixable provided the things I mentioned above are addressed appropriately.


----------



## SadHeart000

Rob_1 said:


> You need to understand that a lot of the the replies are based not just in the breaking of your boundaries, but what you also wrote at the end. see above.
> 
> Now, with your latest post, it paints a different scenario for replays. To me, now it reads as a broken boundary that you can be willing to engage in repairing. That's what I read now, when before your message conveyed a sense of finality.


A quote from my first post at the end: _"Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad. But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate."_

And from my post an hour ago: "_I wish this wasn't such a tough pill for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that."_

In both posts I'm saying I don't feel the same way towards him anymore and I hate that. I was hoping for suggestions to work around that.


----------



## minimalME

SadHeart000 said:


> I was hoping for suggestions to work around that.


Forgiveness is a wonderful place to start. 😊


----------



## TexasMom1216

minimalME said:


> Forgiveness is a wonderful place to start. 😊


I concur. Protect your heart, but he seems to honestly care that he hurt you and wants to be who you thought he was.


----------



## Music4Life

Anastasia6 said:


> Is this supposed to be helpful to the OP or some generic conversation about men and rules? She is already married....


It will only be helpful to women who can truly hear men. And I'm not being snarky - I mean that statement.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> So he’s broken her heart and shaken up her world by lying to her for years and the next step is the “180” where he refuses to speak to her or participate in the marriage or family until she gives him whatever he wants, whenever he wants, without question. I’m sure that will make her super appreciative.


No, just an option he may or may not have thought about while he's being flogged over this silly item. Because she still wants all but he's supposed to suffer on her behalf. If she thinks he's a horrible husband she may not know the difference. Only he knows what's best. And that, ONLY if he acts like a simpering servant to get her to tell him. That's ridiculous. This has to end soon or he indeed will rebel on his own.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I'd say he already has.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

SadHeart000 said:


> A quote from my first post at the end: _"Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad. But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate."_
> 
> And from my post an hour ago: "_I wish this wasn't such a tough pill for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that."_
> 
> In both posts I'm saying I don't feel the same way towards him anymore and I hate that. I was hoping for suggestions to work around that.


So leave him. Act upon your convictions. Because right now, at some point he will indeed have had enough flogging and remove that choice from your hands.

It's like you've been looking for a chance or reason to distance yourself from him.


----------



## Rob_1

SadHeart000 said:


> In both posts I'm saying I don't feel the same way towards him anymore and I hate that. I was hoping for suggestions to work around that.


Only you can determine if you can change your heart, but if you are tilting toward eventually working it out with him, them true forgiveness must be achieved, otherwise, if you said I forgive you , but keep a rancor inside you, and bring it out every time you feel ill predispose toward him, then, that's not forgiveness, mind as well ended now, otherwise it will fester in the relationship until one of you say "enough, I'm out". It takes time, so give time, time. You just can't say I forgive you, and all is kosher now.


----------



## oldshirt

SadHeart000 said:


> In both posts I'm saying I don't feel the same way towards him anymore and I hate that. I was hoping for suggestions to work around that.


Therapy for you and MC for the two of you.

And that is not a “work around.” It is actually addressing the foundations of the problems.


And although they meant well, I disagree with simply forgiving and moving along. 

You haven’t come out and said it, but me suspects that there are some deeper issues and possible traumas that are at the root of this and if not addressed and dealt with, it will simply keep happening or it will fester and manifest in other ways. 

This goes way deeper than a guy grabbing a spank and you being miffed at it. 

I’ll be blunt - you’re either a Karen that simply wants him to be your little lackey and not have any persona or agency or life of his own. 

Or you have some kind of past wounds or trauma that need to addressed and dealt with by both of you in order to keep your marriage and family from imploding.


----------



## SadHeart000

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So leave him. Act upon your convictions. Because right now, at some point he will indeed have had enough flogging and remove that choice from your hands.
> 
> It's like you've been looking for a chance or reason to distance yourself from him.





Rob_1 said:


> Only you can determine if you can change your heart, but if you are tilting toward eventually working it out with him, them true forgiveness must be achieved, otherwise, if you said I forgive you , but keep a rancorn inside you, and bring it out every time you feel ill predispose toward him, then, that's not forgiveness, mind as well ended now, otherwise it will fester in the relationship until one of you say "enough, I'm out". It takes time, so give time, time. You just can't say I forgive you, and all is kosher now.


I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have. 

I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him. 

I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

SadHeart000 said:


> I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have.
> 
> I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him.
> 
> I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.


You know you can't put a number on it. Only you can figure that one out.

Is there something in particular that drives you to have such strong feelings about this?


----------



## Rob_1

SadHeart000 said:


> I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have.
> 
> I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him.
> 
> *I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.*


We all are different. No one can throw a number and everything will magically be OK. It takes time. How much time? is different for all of us. To me it could be tomorrow, for someone else, a month, a year, or that person can be trying for years and never being able to forgive, least of all to forget, because you never forget.


----------



## TexasMom1216

SadHeart000 said:


> I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have.
> 
> I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him.
> 
> I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.


He’s not the person he told you he was. You have to give yourself time to get to know this new person.


----------



## Rob_1

All I can tell you is that if, after some period of time that you feel is sufficient, and you haven't resolve your feelings, anger, and disappointments toward him, then the most likely resolve for you is to end it.


----------



## Rob_1

TexasMom1216 said:


> He’s not the person he told you he was. You have to give yourself time to get to know this new person.


Actually, you definitely don't know that. At the time he made the commitment he probably was and meant what he said. Time, pressure and experiences make people change for the better or worse, but we all change as time marches on. That's a fact. Our core beliefs can also be changed and erased. New core beliefs can and do supplant those core beliefs. Even our character modifies and change as time passes. Our core inner selves, might not change, but yet it gets modified to most humans. We are not static beings.


----------



## TexasMom1216

SadHeart000 said:


> I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have.
> 
> I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him.
> 
> I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.


Also, please get those pictures back. If things get to the point where you need to get a job, you don’t want questionable pictures floating around.


----------



## SadHeart000

oldshirt said:


> Therapy for you and MC for the two of you.
> 
> And that is not a “work around.” It is actually addressing the foundations of the problems.
> 
> 
> And although they meant well, I disagree with simply forgiving and moving along.
> 
> You haven’t come out and said it, but me suspects that there are some deeper issues and possible traumas that are at the root of this and if not addressed and dealt with, it will simply keep happening or it will fester and manifest in other ways.
> 
> This goes way deeper than a guy grabbing a spank and you being miffed at it.
> 
> I’ll be blunt - you’re either a Karen that simply wants him to be your little lackey and not have any persona or agency or life of his own.
> 
> Or you have some kind of past wounds or trauma that need to addressed and dealt with by both of you in order to keep your marriage and family from imploding.


I feel like you are projecting what you believe to be "the way" on me, as far as the topic of porn goes. Its not outlandish to think a man would give up viewing sexual content in a marriage and be happy to do so. Many husbands don't and no judgment here. 

My past traumas are nill mostly due to not having a large dating life before meeting my husband. I dated a few guys. He never dated or even kissed anyone before me. I feel like my slate is pretty clean on the trauma front.

I think have some body insecurities that don't bode well for something like this happening.. 

We've had an amazing past 10 years, hence why he is trying to make this work for us. I know how this sounds. I'm being the difficult one. Getting lied to is really a mindfuck.


----------



## Rob_1

SadHeart000 said:


> Many husbands don't


This is where you are completely mistaken. whether you believe it to be false or not. The fact is "MOST" husbands watch porn, and "FEW" husbands don't.


----------



## SadHeart000

Rob_1 said:


> This is where you are completely mistaken. whether you believe it to be false or not. The fact is "MOST" husbands watch porn, and "FEW" husbands don't.


Ok yes


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rob_1 said:


> This is where you are completely mistaken. whether you believe it to be false or not. The fact is "MOST" husbands watch porn, and "FEW" husbands don't.


Just look at the Psychology Today article I posted. 98% of men said they looked at internet porn in the last 6 months and 80% in the last week. That was a survey of men in a relationship.


----------



## Anastasia6

@SadHeart000 it only matters what you and your husband do.

Let's try to get back to you. The lying is very hard to take. I do agree that I would be thrown for a loop if I found out my husband was lying to me for 2 years. We have a very open and honest relationship.

So you said you made list of how you appreciated him. What are some of the qualities he has that make him a great husband?


----------



## Anastasia6

Also let's do some math. 330 million people in America 165 million men 20% is still 31 million men who didn't look at porn in the last week.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@SadHeart000 I am curious if you do these 6 months check ins with all of you boundaries or just this one? If, so, why just this one? Why not ask if he has been faithful since you last discussed?


----------



## *Deidre*

@SadHeart000 - It may just take some time for you to overcome the pain that you feel right now. But, your husband’s humility in this moment with you, is very encouraging. He didn’t mean to hurt you and hopefully, you can both repair things.

One day at a time. If you both want to move forward, you will. There’s really no magic elixir to bring you back to before you found this out. Maybe that’s a good thing because this will grow you both, in different ways.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> Also let's do some math. 330 million people in America 165 million men 20% is still 31 million men who didn't look at porn in the last week.


And 134 million that did.

ETA: that is in the last week..Go out to 6 months and you are at 98%. Imagine when you go out to a year.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Some thoughts:

TikTok is not porn. It’s like maybe 30% of Instagram in terms of racy content and even less than YouTube (I heard…). I’d say it’s even tamer than a Victoria’s Secret catalogue which I think would be a real stretch to call porn.

As a thought experiment, the OP’s husband can see a woman IRL. If he goes home and then commits the thought crime of wanking to that using his own mental images of it; does that also violate the deal?


----------



## Rob_1

Anastasia6 said:


> 31 million men who didn't look at porn in the last week.


But they probably did watch porn the previous week.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> Also let's do some math. 330 million people in America 165 million men 20% is still 31 million men who didn't look at porn in the last week.


Well and do the same math for infidelity or abuse or anything else. Just because other people do it doesn’t make it ok. There are 2 people in her marriage, what these 134 million men are doing is neither her problem nor her business. I’m not sure trying to convince her that she has no right to set boundaries is really helpful information.


----------



## Rob_1

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well and do the same math for infidelity or abuse or anything else. Just because other people do it doesn’t make it ok. There are 2 people in her marriage, what these 134 million men are doing is neither her problem nor her business. I’m not sure trying to convince her that she has no right to set boundaries is really helpful information.


And no one is saying that she can't or shouldn't set her boundaries. She is entitled to whatever she feels is her right to demand.

From my part I keep repeating that she needs to understand that although not impossible is difficult for a woman to have a relationship where the man is forbidden to watch porn as basis for the relationship to move forward. Its just that difficult. Many men will say whatever you want you hear, but that's that. There's not guarantee for anything in life. She can try another relationship with another partner and again the most likely scenario is that eventually she will catch the new partner watching porn. That's reality.

That's why in my first reply, I said,"mind as well remain single" because the odds are not stocked towards her main goal: A partner that doesn't watch porn. Hey, they do exist, though. Not too many, but they do exist.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Rob_1 said:


> : A partner that doesn't watch porn. Hey, they do exist, though. Not too many, but they do exist.


The problem is her husband told her he WAS that guy. He lied to her, no matter how you spin it, and he chose to lie to her.

If what you say is true, all women should stay single. If “infidelity” is whatever the man says at any particular moment then it’s crazy to ever get married. Why bother?


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Yes, I agree the problem is his lying, but if she's very gung ho on him and the M, and I do hope they have a great M and it sounds like they have good sex between them, this is a window for both to give a bit, call it compromise, because as years pass, things change.
> 
> If they both gave in a bit, problem over.


 If we have boundaries we feel strongly about we should never compromise on those boundaries.


----------



## Diana7

Ita 


TexasMom1216 said:


> Expecting fidelity and honesty is not insecurity.
> 
> She needs to get those pictures back. Now. It may be too late. He doesn’t want them anyway.


It actually takes a strong and secure person to have boundaries and stick to them regardless. 
It's the insecure who put up with sloppy behaviour from their spouse and do nothing.


----------



## Rob_1

TexasMom1216 said:


> The problem is her husband told her he WAS that guy. He lied to her, no matter how you spin it, and he chose to lie to her.
> 
> If what you say is true, all women should stay single. If “infidelity” is whatever the man says at any particular moment then it’s crazy to ever get married. Why bother?


How do you know that he lied? where you there when he made the promise, and new that he lied?
I already said it: the most likely scenario is that when they got together he believe it to be true. and he was true to it, until he wasn't. That doesn't mean the he lied to her when they made their covenant. It only means that he broke it at some point.

Why would ":ALL" women stay single? Not all women have your same set of boundaries toward porn as you and OP do. Women watch porn also (in case you didn't know) specially young women. Around this world countless of men and women watch porn together. Countless of women don't care one bit if their partner watches porn or not. So, "most" women don't need to stay single because they watch porn also.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> And no one is saying that she can't or shouldn't set her boundaries. She is entitled to whatever she feels is her right to demand.
> 
> From my part I keep repeating that she needs to understand that although not impossible is difficult for a woman to have a relationship where the man is forbidden to watch porn as basis for the relationship to move forward. Its just that difficult. Many men will say whatever you want you hear, but that's that. There's not guarantee for anything in life. She can try another relationship with another partner and again the most likely scenario is that eventually she will catch the new partner watching porn. That's reality.
> 
> That's why in my first reply, I said,"mind as well remain single" because the odds are not stocked towards her main goal: A partner that doesn't watch porn. Hey, they do exist, though. Not too many, but they do exist.


Thank goodness quite a few do still go against the flow.


----------



## *Deidre*

I believe couples (most) have the best intentions when they’re engaged to be transparent and honest in their marriages but sometimes, people eff up. Sometimes people make mistakes or have habits that aren’t healthy for themselves or their marriages. And together, you decide what you can deal with. I don’t think anyone can foresee every detour a marriage will take, sometimes it’s truly a leap of faith.

Marriage will have trials. The trials will be different for each of us but everyone here I bet has faced challenges in their marriages. My husband had jealousy issues for example, and we worked through them.

I think that the OP and her husband seem to be on the right track, hearing each other. That’s a good start.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> But they probably did watch porn the previous week.


You have no way if knowing that.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> It actually takes a strong and secure person to have boundaries and stick to them regardless.
> It's the insecure who put up with sloppy behaviour from their spouse and do nothing.


I had a therapist tell me the same thing. Everyone was telling me that if I let my boyfriend (eventual husband) cheat then “he’ll never leave you.” Well of course. What man wouldn’t want a live-in housekeeper and convenient plan b?


----------



## In Absentia

Let’s face it… without the OP’s insecurities, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. That said, if I really felt so strongly about being betrayed, the only solution would be divorce. There is no coming back from this if there is no flexibility and the beliefs are so rigid.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> Let’s face it… without the OP’s insecurities, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. That said, if I really felt so strongly about being betrayed, the only solution would be divorce. There is no coming back from this if there is no flexibility and the beliefs are so rigid.


You make it sound like standards are a bad thing.

We’re off track, but compare/contrast to the “duty sex” thread. Women should gratefully accept whatever crumbs they’re thrown but men can make demands.

Back to the original topic. It does sound like there’s hope for them and I’m glad.


----------



## Rob_1

The chorus here 


Diana7 said:


> You have no way if knowing that.


Diana: statistically speaking I am 100% sure that I am correct and that you are completely wrong. And that's that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

SadHeart000 said:


> I do and have said I forgive him. Because I can truly see how this all got conjured up to what it is now. But that didn't do some big "magic" thing to mending my heart and reigniting the passion. Like I wish it would have.
> 
> I also am not "flogging" him. In the begging there was some "how could you"s.. but now I'm more in house mate mode. I'm not unfriendly to him.
> 
> I guess no one knows how much time to give things but if anyone wants to throw out a number I'll hear it.


What's house-mate mode, like a roomie? Not FWBs?
He's probably been flogged enough. It sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders and everyone and the M will survive, that's great to hear. It really should. You sound like a good person and he doesn't sound like a horrible husband. I do believe your M will grow in a positive way as this is worked through. 

That's the thing about ltr good Ms they grow and mature over time. I hope for the best for both of you and marriage. May it be stronger and closer than ever. It looks like it will be.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> You make it sound like standards are a bad thing.


I think it depends on the standards…  I get the upset about the lying, but all this bother about the husband wanking over a TikTok girl who wasn’t even naked? The OP hates it also because she probably thinks she is not good enough for him now. Which is totally untrue. Men wank over porn and it means nothing. It’s just a release. The rest is insecurities, which is nonsense…


----------



## Rob_1

This has devolved into Men vs women. Men saying and agreeing to the fact that most men watch porn and the immediately sanctimonious replies of the men bashing hordes that is not right.

OP will make up her mind one way or another, regardless if we condon or not porn. 

She already stated that she posted to get opinions/help on how to move forward. Two ways. Either she doesn't get over it and divorce, or find a way to forgive her husband. That takes time. Time, communication, and enforcement of those boundaries will define in the end if she can get over it. OP take the time needed for you. Eventually you'll find out your answer.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> I think it depends on the standards…  I get the upset about the lying, but all this bother about the husband wanking over a TikTok girl who wasn’t even naked? The OP hates it also because she probably thinks she is not good enough for him now. Which is totally untrue. Men wank over porn and it means nothing. It’s just a release. The rest is insecurities, which is nonsense…


To me, it's all about the lying. And of course, you can't be serious, of course it doesn't "mean nothing" and she can't possibly measure up to the Tik-Tok girl. (Well, maybe she can, I don't know her, it's too late for me but I'm projecting that on her, she could be uber hot) In 10 years, the Tik-Tok girl won't measure up to the Tik-Tok girl. 

I think if these were unrealistic standards, he should have said so from the beginning. It's not that they didn't talk about it and this just came up, if you'll pardon the phrasing. This is something they talked about, that he agreed to, and he lied to her for 2 years. If she'd lied to him for 2 years, you'd have an issue with her lying. This is no different than if she'd run up a secret credit card or had an old boyfriend on Facebook that she was talking to. 

I just hope she's ok, no matter what she decides. It's sad that women are expected to just accept infidelity. I deliberately don't look for problems like this, because once I know, I promised myself I wouldn't be someone's plan B, something someone settles for. If I find out, I have to do something and it's going to end with my son having a broken family. I'm considering getting ahead of it and just changing the parameters of our marriage, since apparently infidelity is inevitable.


----------



## minimalME

Rob_1 said:


> ...and the immediately sanctimonious replies of the men bashing hordes that is not right.


😂


----------



## *Deidre*

Do you consider viewing porn to be infidelity, @TexasMom1216?


----------



## minimalME

*Deidre* said:


> Do you consider viewing porn to be infidelity, @TexasMom1216?


Jesus does. So, that's what I'll go by. 😬


----------



## TexasMom1216

*Deidre* said:


> Do you consider viewing porn to be infidelity, @TexasMom1216?


This is kind of off topic, but no. I realize that women age, we have children, our bodies change. Even the most careful woman who never gains any weight will still age. I can't compete with the women in porn, so I close my eyes to it. 

I do have a static definition for what infidelity is, though, and if it's crossed I won't waver. I think the OP's line is a little stringent and unrealistic, given that women age and we can't compete with women with perfect bodies and faces, but it's HER line and it's up to her what she does. Once you say, "Ok, but no farther," that's a clear signal to push farther.


----------



## In Absentia

@TexasMom1216 

You know, I agree with you. He lied. Is it bad enough to destroy the marriage? Probably. To me, it’s silly because that’s what men do and the OP needs to get in touch with reality and forget about her insecurities which play a big part in this. My marriage was partly destroyed by body issues, despite all the promises and discussions we had. But we all have standards and I don’t think there is any way they can recover from this if standards are set at a certain level and there is absolutely no flexibility.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> If we have boundaries we feel strongly about we should never compromise on those boundaries.


So, honestly, you'd tell OP seriously to D hubby here?


----------



## *Deidre*

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is kind of off topic, but no. I realize that women age, we have children, our bodies change. Even the most careful woman who never gains any weight will still age. I can't compete with the women in porn, so I close my eyes to it.
> 
> I do have a static definition for what infidelity is, though, and if it's crossed I won't waver. I think the OP's line is a little stringent and unrealistic, given that women age and we can't compete with women with perfect bodies and faces, but it's HER line and it's up to her what she does. Once you say, "Ok, but no farther," that's a clear signal to push farther.


I just wondered because that came up elsewhere in the thread, I don’t remember who posted it, but porn could be in that category for the OP, as well. I’m not sure.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is kind of off topic, but no. I realize that women age, we have children, our bodies change. Even the most careful woman who never gains any weight will still age. I can't compete with the women in porn, so I close my eyes to it.
> 
> I do have a static definition for what infidelity is, though, and if it's crossed I won't waver. I think the OP's line is a little stringent and unrealistic, given that women age and we can't compete with women with perfect bodies and faces, but it's HER line and it's up to her what she does. Once you say, "Ok, but no farther," that's a clear signal to push farther.


Most guys love their Ws and love their Ws bodies through all the years and changes, and just love to see their W naked getting ready for sex with them. It's still wonderful to have W run around naked. 
In a loving M, Hs aren't constantly comparing their Ws to bikini models.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> The chorus here
> 
> 
> Diana: statistically speaking I am 100% sure that I am correct and that you are completely wrong. And that's that.


Interesting that men who watch porn assume that it's universal or nearly universal.
There are a lot of good guys out there who dont.


----------



## minimalME

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> So, honestly, you'd tell OP seriously to D hubby here?


I wouldn't. People lie all the time. And people lie for different reasons. Is it a one off? Or is it a way of life?

We have the gift of being able to mend relationships through confession and repentence with one another.

To me, pride and self-righteousness are the primary problems, with porn being secondary.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Most guys love their Ws and love their Ws bodies through all the years and changes, and just love to see their W naked getting ready for sex with them. It's still wonderful to have W run around naked.
> In a loving M, Hs aren't constantly comparing their Ws to bikini models.


It's true. A woman may frequently worry about her body issues but to the guy, he's only thinking ahhh, got my W naked again, happy times.

I still have the same lust for her and her body today as I did when I first met her, even more, because of our shared life experiences and how we've matured, together.


----------



## minimalME

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's true. A woman may frequently worry about her body issues but to the guy, he's only thinking ahhh, got my W naked again, happy times.
> 
> I still have the same lust for her and her body today as I did when I first met her, even more, because of our shared life experiences and how we've matured, together.


So sweet. 🥰


----------



## ccpowerslave

I don’t think OP is unreasonable here and I know the husband feels bad about it. TBH he’s lucky his wife gave him a customized spank bank and he kind of blew it.

FWIW I wish I had a customized spank bank but I am too scared of having images like that exist.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

minimalME said:


> So sweet. 🥰


Pshaw, just don't let others know, or my secrets out.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's true. A woman may frequently worry about her body issues but to the guy, he's only thinking ahhh, got my W naked again, happy times.
> 
> I still have the same lust for her and her body today as I did when I first met her, even more, because of our shared life experiences and how we've matured, together.


Sure, sure. Not the topic here though.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sure, sure. Not the topic here though.


You mentioned that all guys are constantly comparing their Ws to bikini models, I didn't bring it up. I'm just saying that's not the case in many many many Ms.


----------



## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> So sweet. 🥰


And true!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

SadHeart000 said:


> I made this post 24 hours ago and have been reading (and re reading) everyone's comments. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was not expecting 9 whole pages of people responses to my situation.
> 
> Couple things I wanted to throw out first:
> 
> 1) He has a somewhat stressful job and has been talking about anxiety and possible depression for a few months. He is an over achiever/perfectionist type. Toss in a little OCD. His doctor has previously offered depression meds and he declined saying he would prefer talk therapy. This happening made him call his doctor back and ask for Zoloft script and make an appointment with a therapist.
> 2) I have no problems with masterbation. At all. I also realize sexy images are thrown up all over media and don't expect him to completely advert his eyes to it. I also did provide nudes over the past decade we've been together. I just don't appreciate masterbation to the visual of another women. Porn or otherwise. That was the clear boundary and it was mutually agreed upon multiple times.
> 3) Which leads me to this last point... and I know this is going to sound really rich coming from me so lay it on if you want...
> 
> But I do really believe for the first 7 years of our marriage he didn't cross the line in the sand, I honestly think he was masterbating without the visual content of other women. I'm not saying he didn't think about it or something popped up in a group text or email chain but I don't think he sought out anything that even resembled sexual content with the thought to touch himself to it. Also, before a couple years ago he was rarely on his laptop or cellphone. If he was on his phone it was for sports related apps or playing chess or sudoku.
> 
> 2 years ago is when the pandemic started. It was literally April 2020 that he downloaded TikTok to his phone. It was a stressful time.. we were pregnant with our 2nd baby and the world was in a standstill. He couldn't come to any of my prenatal appointments, never got to see ultrasounds and hear the baby's heartbeat in real time. His work was also being cautious with what jobs they took on and overtime was halted. Our toddler's daycare shut down. Every now and again one of us got exposed and we'd do the quarantine thing. We had 2 family members pass.
> 
> Call it an excuse or maybe root cause... but all of that going on _plus_ his internet habits changing PLUS him being a man who strives to be the best partner, father and employee. He is a people pleaser and can't stand to disappointment. Like to his _very_ core. He wants to be helpful and needed on maybe a higher level than the average person. Given that personality trait with everthing else I can see how good it must felt to unplug and mindlessly scroll through TikTok watching videos. Masterbating to release some steam.
> 
> Every day for the past 3 weeks I've seen that he is not proud of this situation.. not just how it was discovered but about it hurting me. He said he knew he'd been breaking a ground rule and so many times tried to stop.
> 
> Some of the men on this thread are of the opinion he needs to get real with himself and deal with this head on with me. That viewing sexual content is a biological need so why fight about it.
> 
> I couldn't get him to get on that page even if I wanted to and tried my very hardest. He does not want to do it. He wants to put things in place so this doesn't happen again. Maybe he is kidding himself or saying that to placate me... I don't _think _it is either of those, but what do I know.
> 
> The point of this post is mostly about my head and heart wanting different things.
> 
> My heads acknowledges that he is a good fit in my life.
> But the fact that he hasn't been truthful about something for 2 years. The fact that I've seen him jacking off to another women in our bed. My heart hurts over that. It was such a huge shock to the system because before 3 weeks ago it was rainbows and sunshine in my eyes. I wish this wasn't such a tough pull for me to swallow, I fear it has fundamentally changed how I view him... and I don't want that.
> 
> So I was just looking for any pointers on how to mend the broken heart. The age old question right.
> 
> We talk every day about this. Its generally not a shouting match either.
> He is remorseful to his very bones and is trying to save things.
> I have written a laundry list of positive attributes and things he has done to stay grounded.
> We've had a couple dates without the babies.
> 
> I just want to jumpstart my own heart and regain all those warm and gooey feelings I used to have for him. Its been a loong 3 friggin' weeks. And maybe I'm doing everything I can at this point and just need to give it more time.
> 
> @Anastasia6 @TexasMom1216 @*Deidre* @MattMatt @Diana7 @BigDaddyNY @Ragnar Ragnasson @oldshirt
> I'm sure I missed some folks but thank you engaging in this topic. Even though I don't agree with everything that has been said I like to have other people's view to ponder. Realizing that they only have the sparknotes version of whats happening and filling in the blanks with their own ideologies and beliefs.


I think the key to working things out is going to be when he understands that no woman wants her man slobbering over other women. 

Do you think for a moment that he would not be upset if he found out you were masturbating to photos of other guys or webcams of other guys or whatever the case may be on a regular basis?


----------



## lifeistooshort

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think the key to working things out is going to be when he understands that no woman wants her man slobbering over other women.
> 
> Do you think for a moment that he would not be upset if he found out you were masturbating to photos of other guys or webcams of other guys or whatever the case may be on a regular basis?


I agree. Let him see you taking care of yourself to another guy with a lot bigger package and see if he's cool with that.

I don't care what any guy says about "controlling their sexuality" ( insert eye roll here) or "all men do it".

If I catch you getting off to other women...especially videos of actual live women, I an absolutely going to lose respect for you and you will not appeal to me on the same level. Argue as you will...won't change anything....life is about trade offs. 

One could argue that a ban on porn is unenforceable because you have to end up grilling him about it and you create a parent child relationship. And I believe that people always revert to who they are, so if he doesn't make the decision to avoid porn himself he's going to sneak it in when you're not looking.

I think the key to getting past this is in him understanding how this affects his wife's desire and respect for him. If he does I think you may be able to let it go, but right now it's not clear if he really understands or he just knows you're upset.

It's a decision he'll have to make with the knowledge of what it will cost him in his wife's eyes. He really should've at least been discreet....what the hell was he thinking to basically do it in the next room? Not smart.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> Interesting that men who watch porn assume that it's universal or nearly universal.
> There are a lot of good guys out there who dont.


But statistically it is almost universal. That study may not the be all end all, but it showed that within a 6 month period 98% of all men in a relationship looked at internet porn. Yes there are good guys that don't. There are also good guys that do.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree. Let him see you taking care of yourself to another guy with a lot bigger package and see if he's cool with that.
> 
> I don't care what any guy says about "controlling their sexuality" ( insert eye roll here) or "all men do it".
> 
> If I catch you getting off to other women...especially videos of actual live women, I an absolutely going to lose respect for you and you will not appeal to me on the same level. Argue as you will...won't change anything....life is about trade offs.
> 
> One could argue that a ban on porn is unenforceable because you have to end up grilling him about it and you create a parent child relationship. And I believe that people always revert to who they are, so if he doesn't make the decision to avoid porn himself he's going to sneak it in when you're not looking.
> 
> I think the key to getting past this is in him understanding how this affects his wife's desire and respect for him. If he does I think you may be able to let it go, but right now it's not clear if he really understands or he just knows you're upset.
> 
> It's a decision he'll have to make with the knowledge of what it will cost him in his wife's eyes. He really should've at least been discreet....what the hell was he thinking to basically do it in the next room? Not smart.


You hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Anastasia6

BigDaddyNY said:


> But statistically it is almost universal. That study may not the be all end all, but it showed that within a 6 month period 98% of all men in a relationship looked at internet porn. Yes there are good guys that don't. There are also good guys that do.  There are guys that think they are good that have women lose attraction and desire for them because then do and they wonder why girls aren't attracted to good guys.....


There fixed it for you.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

I don't mind my husband watching porn, as long as he's not watching it sitting or laying next to me. Also as long as it doesn't interfere with our life. He will watch the porn when travelling to work away from home for a few days. He also has very sexy and risky photos of me to look at while away lol and some videos  I can ignore his porn use because he works so bloody hard for the family etc. My hubby isn't addicted and can go without the porn. He says my photos are enough


----------



## Diana7

That was one study. I am sure they all vary. Not disputing that the majority of men look at porn, but a) that doesn't mean it's ok and b) that still leaves millions who don't.

It's sad that the majority do, it takes a man with strong values and self control to go against the flow. I have great admiration for those who do. 
It's easy to just let the world's values sweep you along and claim it must be ok because so many people do it.


----------



## Blondilocks

He lied for 2 years and enjoyed the benefit of having a wife who thought he hung the moon. The cat is out of the bag and, now, he has a wife who looks at him differently and it is his own fault. This isn't about control or her insecurities - it is about relationship dynamics.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

BigDaddyNY said:


> But statistically it is almost universal. That study may not the be all end all, but it showed that within a 6 month period 98% of all men in a relationship looked at internet porn. Yes there are good guys that don't. There are also good guys that do.


You can put facts right in front of people and it makes no difference at times. Some people are in such a state of denial they are blinded..... Most all guys watch porn to some extent. It's not a replacement anymore than a woman's vibrator for the real thing. But everyone yells my spouse never watched it.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You can put facts right in front of people and it makes no difference at times. Some people are in such a state of denial they are blinded..... Most all guys watch porn to some extent. It's not a replacement anymore than a woman's vibrator for the real thing. But everyone yells my spouse never watched it.


Not that it matters but my opinion long before internet porn has always been that nearly everyone watches p*** at some point just out of curiosity when they are teens or young adults. I don't think most of them used to make a lifestyle out of it until the last couple of generations.


----------



## red oak

.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You can put facts right in front of people and it makes no difference at times. Some people are in such a state of denial they are blinded..... Most all guys watch porn to some extent. It's not a replacement anymore than a woman's vibrator for the real thing. But everyone yells my spouse never watched it.


Maybe so, but denial works both ways.

These facts also apply to your wife’s reaction to it, so unless your wife is ok with it then it will affect how she sees you. My impression is that many men are in a state of denial about this....you can claim all you want that it's not a substitute and for most men I think that's true but you don't control how she sees it.

Quoting statistics about all men doing it doesn't change anything about her reaction. Life is about trade offs and everything comes with a price, and we all decide what price we're willing to pay for the things we want. You should know what that price is.

My guy may well be looking at porn, but I hope he's smart enough not to let me see him jerking off to another woman. Some things you keep discreet.


----------



## RandomDude

SadHeart000 said:


> New to the site and hoping to hear from others…
> 
> Met my husband 10 years ago. Been married 5. Couple little kids and sweet life. Our relationship has been a solid 9/10. He’s a good, loving partner.
> 
> As most couples do, we set some ground rules early on after we started dating. Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it. He agreed no problem. It was a very clear rule in our relationship. For the next 7 years he did not view porn and I believe that. We would have talks a few times a year… sort of a pulse check on how things are going in the bedroom. Making sure everything was being sexually fulfilled and there were no desire to view sexual content. He always reported he was good and “didnt watch that stuff”.
> 
> Flash forward to one morning a few weeks ago. The alarm goes off. He rolls over to my side of the bed for a quick snuggle then I’m up and getting ready for the day. He stays in bed, I give him a kiss as I leave the bedroom to wake up the kids. 10 mins later me and the kids make our way downstairs to the living room. The bedroom is on the other side of the living room. I walk in and he is jacking off to a girl on TikTok.
> 
> That day I learn while he hasn’t been accessing porn sites he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s not full nudity.
> 
> It sounds SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.
> 
> But this was the man who I believed had no problem respecting this boundary and would not lie to my face about it. But he did, for 2 years. Every few months or so I’d awkwardly saddle up next to him in bed while it was a commercial break and ask how he was doing and if he was feeling the need to view any sexual content. This topic, in part, was brought up due to the fact that the last couple of years we’ve been in baby mode. There’s been some times during and after the pregnancy I was out of commission.
> It hurts.. to know this all started during the pregnancy of our last child. But it hurts the most to realized he has literally lied to me for 2 years.
> 
> And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.
> 
> So where are we now?
> 
> Right after this happened he saw the hurt it caused. He didn’t try to argue or downplay anything. He was very remorseful and deleted the app.
> He has a therapist. Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.
> 
> All of that sounds great right? And everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> But does this really qualify as a mistake. He admitted to doing this for the last 2 years and knew I’d be hurt it. Lied to me about it multiple times. When this was possibly the biggest and longest standing ground rule we’d set.
> 
> Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.
> 
> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


Well this thread really hit close to home...

He made a promise he did not expect that he could not keep.

I was guilty of that as well with my ex-fiancee, and it's something that eats at me to this day the way I have betrayed her trust. Not proud of it but here's how it played out in my relationship, perhaps from my perspective you can understand his and decide how you wish to go forward. I don't know how much of this can relate to your marriage but...

My last ex was an absolute stunner, always willing to try anything in bed or elsewhere with me, had a high sex drive and I was so completely in love with her, so I thought it could never happen right? I was wrong. In the beginning we never had an anti-porn rule, but eventually she began to desire more sex than I could handle (_sigh_ 😑). So wait a minute, I had a hottie yet choked my own chicken instead? How does that work? Read on.

Reason #1 - Porn for me was just a masturbatory aid, nothing more, and masturbation was always easier than sex, I can rub one off and be done in minutes and get back to whatever I'm doing. It is a selfish act. Sex however involves another party, and whether it's pride/control/domination I don't know but if my partner doesn't have multiples and/or her legs are not shaking and shuddering I'm not done. I won't even stop at her pleas unless she uses our safe-word which she never did. Naturally, this means each session was realistically 20 minutes to an hour sometimes more and it does get tiring. I did enjoy it with her but there was always the pressure to perform by the standards I set for myself.

Reason #2 - Eventually she started complaining and starting more fights that she wanted more sex, up to three times a day. That brought back a lot of trauma from my ex-wife who also wanted sex three times a day. Of course we tried to work on solutions, when I brought up how my ex-wife used to force-feed me protein shots of tuna cans to get my engine going whenever she wanted I had hoped she would understand that and back off a bit instead she wanted to do the very same thing to me. 🤦‍♂️ Sexual experimentation she also complained about, but I don't really blame her though, there have been positions that I never bothered with her that I have done with others like my ex-wife, part of it was due to my prior fitness compared to later and ex was heavier than my ex-wife but that was something I could never have told her. Other positions I just didn't like and knew I didn't like, etc etc.

When she asked me about porn I told her about it so she banned it so all the sexual energy would go to her, logically right? Wrong. Of course we had also tried her taking the reins but overall she never really liked it on top, hence never pressured her but she did enjoy oral and over time she got so good at it I gave in to it and that helped a bit but in the end - again, pride/control/domination, I just never sat well for me to just be satisfied and her left hanging.

Reason #3 - She also accused me of cheating regularly, I always gave her full transparency yet we could end up with fights over a new female employee I didn't bother to tell her about, or her seat in the car being in a different position than she remembers she left it and if I didn't pick up my daughter on that day  (and seriously, it's only ever her who messed with it), and I get calls during the day who are not my immediate contacts yet when she checks my phone with nameless numbers and interrogates me who is this, who is that, and like how the hell am I supposed to remember? Call them yourself if you are so curious. Sometimes hours go by with her googling the numbers on my phone when I was even actually horny and wanted to F her brains out. All these fights sapped my attraction to her and I would rather just sleep and rub one off when she's gone.

So add all this together and yeah, sometimes YES - of course I just wanted to rub one off without her. So I did, started off just masturbating by myself, after a while decided oh why the hell not, look up porn and get it over and done with faster. I have always been a sh-t liar, I look away, I omit, I try to avoid it as much as I can to avoid a bald face lie and then when cornered I lie the dumbest way possible, and she knew for a long time, but never confronted me... until she did. And I lied to her. Trust is a sacred thing, I told my ex from the very beginning it's not who you trust it's what you trust them to do and at least she took that lesson to heart as she never trusted me in this and she was right. But for me to lie to her face like that really breached our trust.

I was going to break up with her there and then, out of guilt, shame and disgust at myself, ironically she was the one who forgave me and found compromises. But it was never the same again after that night. We kept hanging on, maybe we shouldn't have, as eventually we did split and this was one of several reasons why we did. This is a messed up issue because as you can see from above, there are reasons a man would rather rub one off than have sex with his partner, but at the same time, I also agree with you in regards to trust - once broken it can never really be regained. Perhaps 90%, but never 100% - ever or again.

You must decide whether you can forgive him and live with this breach of trust for the rest of the marriage. Can you two be stronger? I don't know, just sharing a perspective from a guy who also betrayed the trust of a woman he loved and was deeply in love with even though she was willing to have sex with him anytime anywhere.


----------



## TexasMom1216

RandomDude said:


> Well this thread really hit close to home...
> 
> He made a promise he did not expect that he could not keep.
> 
> I was guilty of that as well with my ex-fiancee, and it's something that eats at me to this day the way I have betrayed her trust. Not proud of it but here's how it played out in my relationship, perhaps from my perspective you can understand his and decide how you wish to go forward. I don't know how much of this can relate to your marriage but...
> 
> My last ex was an absolute stunner, always willing to try anything in bed or elsewhere with me, had a high sex drive and I was so completely in love with her, so I thought it could never happen right? I was wrong. In the beginning we never had an anti-porn rule, but eventually she began to desire more sex than I could handle (_sigh_ 😑). So wait a minute, I had a hottie yet choked my own chicken instead? How does that work? Read on.
> 
> Reason #1 - Porn for me was just a masturbatory aid, nothing more, and masturbation was always easier than sex, I can rub one off and be done in minutes and get back to whatever I'm doing. It is a selfish act. Sex however involves another party, and whether it's pride/control/domination I don't know but if my partner doesn't have multiples and/or her legs are not shaking and shuddering I'm not done. I won't even stop at her pleas unless she uses our safe-word which she never did. Naturally, this means each session was realistically 20 minutes to an hour sometimes more and it does get tiring. I did enjoy it with her but there was always the pressure to perform by the standards I set for myself.
> 
> Reason #2 - Eventually she started complaining and starting more fights that she wanted more sex, up to three times a day. That brought back a lot of trauma from my ex-wife who also wanted sex three times a day. Of course we tried to work on solutions, when I brought up how my ex-wife used to force-feed me protein shots of tuna cans to get my engine going whenever she wanted I had hoped she would understand that and back off a bit instead she wanted to do the very same thing to me. 🤦‍♂️ Sexual experimentation she also complained about, but I don't really blame her though, there have been positions that I never bothered with her that I have done with others like my ex-wife, part of it was due to my prior fitness compared to later and ex was heavier than my ex-wife but that was something I could never have told her. Other positions I just didn't like and knew I didn't like, etc etc.
> 
> When she asked me about porn I told her about it so she banned it so all the sexual energy would go to her, logically right? Wrong. Of course we had also tried her taking the reins but overall she never really liked it on top, hence never pressured her but she did enjoy oral and over time she got so good at it I gave in to it and that helped a bit but in the end - again, pride/control/domination, I just never sat well for me to just be satisfied and her left hanging.
> 
> Reason #3 - She also accused me of cheating regularly, I always gave her full transparency yet we could end up with fights over a new female employee I didn't bother to tell her about, or her seat in the car being in a different position than she remembers she left it and if I didn't pick up my daughter on that day  (and seriously, it's only ever her who messed with it), and I get calls during the day who are not my immediate contacts yet when she checks my phone with nameless numbers and interrogates me who is this, who is that, and like how the hell am I supposed to remember? Call them yourself if you are so curious. Sometimes hours go by with her googling the numbers on my phone when I was even actually horny and wanted to F her brains out. All these fights sapped my attraction to her and I would rather just sleep and rub one off when she's gone.
> 
> So add all this together and yeah, sometimes YES - of course I just wanted to rub one off without her. So I did, started off just masturbating by myself, after a while decided oh why the hell not, look up porn and get it over and done with faster. I have always been a sh-t liar, I look away, I omit, I try to avoid it as much as I can to avoid a bald face lie and then when cornered I lie the dumbest way possible, and she knew for a long time, but never confronted me... until she did. And I lied to her. Trust is a sacred thing, I told my ex from the very beginning it's not who you trust it's what you trust them to do and at least she took that lesson to heart as she never trusted me in this and she was right. But for me to lie to her face like that really breached our trust.
> 
> I was going to break up with her there and then, out of guilt, shame and disgust at myself, ironically she was the one who forgave me and found compromises. But it was never the same again after that night. We kept hanging on, maybe we shouldn't have, as eventually we did split and this was one of several reasons why we did. This is a messed up issue because as you can see from above, there are reasons a man would rather rub one off than have sex with his partner, but at the same time, I also agree with you in regards to trust - once broken it can never really be regained. Perhaps 90%, but never 100% - ever or again.
> 
> You must decide whether you can forgive him and live with this breach of trust for the rest of the marriage. Can you two be stronger? I don't know, just sharing a perspective from a guy who also betrayed the trust of a woman he loved and was deeply in love with even though she was willing to have sex with him anytime anywhere.


It was brave of you to share this. 🥰 Thank you for sharing this very personal story.


----------



## RandomDude

TexasMom1216 said:


> It was brave of you to share this. 🥰 Thank you for sharing this very personal story.


I got triggered 😑


----------



## TexasMom1216

RandomDude said:


> I got triggered 😑


I’m sorry honey. You’re sweet though.


----------



## Evinrude58

The guy jacked off to some tik Tok crap and the sky is falling and he feels the need to see a therapist???
I can see OP getting her feelings hurt. The guy is an idiot for doing it. If he was horny why not play with his wife? I don’t get that, BUT, is it really the end of the world? He may have felt the urge and knew you weren’t really in the mood, so didn’t want to bother you.

Sure, let him catch you looking at some big duck porn as suggested……… probably won’t get the reaction you’d want. Good chance he wouldn’t care and seeing OP getting turned on (before you say it, OP, I already know—- you’d never get turned on by that crap) would likely turn him on as well.

I’m thinking that this is a forgiveable offense…
Without having to get a freaking therapist.
But I’m not the injured party.

Either way, I’m sorry your husband hurt you and hope he flies right in the future.

.


----------



## Rob_1

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sorry honey. You’re sweet though.


Excuse me!!! Honey...sweet, how condescending, isn't that what women say when a man call a woman honey these days? And the response: an angry don't you honey me, Mr. I'm not your honey or anything. You're a condescending prick.

Just busting your chops. But it's true. This is what men has to experience these days with a fraction of the women population.


----------



## Jimmysgirl

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Let him turn into a truly bad, mean, a$$h0le, irresponsible and uncaring H for a few weeks.
> 
> That would show the real difference to her.
> I'm not saying he should but without something to demonstrate true difference the good isn't always appreciated.


Oh my. Hey, I hurt you and now I'm going to hurt you more so the first hurt doesn't hurt so bad. Maybe that works for some women but I'm admittedly a little broken and I'd be a lot more broken after that.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Jimmysgirl said:


> Oh my. Hey, I hurt you and now I'm going to hurt you more so the first hurt doesn't hurt so bad. Maybe that works for some women but I'm admittedly a little broken and I'd be a lot more broken after that.


Same. This kind of thing is why I kept my job and never quit. I would never tolerate being abused like that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Jimmysgirl said:


> Oh my. Hey, I hurt you and now I'm going to hurt you more so the first hurt doesn't hurt so bad. Maybe that works for some women but I'm admittedly a little broken and I'd be a lot more broken after that.


What first hurt?


----------



## ConanHub

SadHeart000 said:


> New to the site and hoping to hear from others…
> 
> Met my husband 10 years ago. Been married 5. Couple little kids and sweet life. Our relationship has been a solid 9/10. He’s a good, loving partner.
> 
> As most couples do, we set some ground rules early on after we started dating. Nothing too crazy but yes one of them was about viewing porn/sexual content. Maybe I just carry some old insecurities but I told him I viewed it has a sexual act and didn’t like the thought of him doing it. He agreed no problem. It was a very clear rule in our relationship. For the next 7 years he did not view porn and I believe that. We would have talks a few times a year… sort of a pulse check on how things are going in the bedroom. Making sure everything was being sexually fulfilled and there were no desire to view sexual content. He always reported he was good and “didnt watch that stuff”.
> 
> Flash forward to one morning a few weeks ago. The alarm goes off. He rolls over to my side of the bed for a quick snuggle then I’m up and getting ready for the day. He stays in bed, I give him a kiss as I leave the bedroom to wake up the kids. 10 mins later me and the kids make our way downstairs to the living room. The bedroom is on the other side of the living room. I walk in and he is jacking off to a girl on TikTok.
> 
> That day I learn while he hasn’t been accessing porn sites he has been looking at girls on social media for the past 2 years. And for those that don’t know, like I didn’t, there is some very graphic sexual content on that app even if it’s not full nudity.
> 
> It sounds SO SO incredibly DUMB typing that out.
> 
> But this was the man who I believed had no problem respecting this boundary and would not lie to my face about it. But he did, for 2 years. Every few months or so I’d awkwardly saddle up next to him in bed while it was a commercial break and ask how he was doing and if he was feeling the need to view any sexual content. This topic, in part, was brought up due to the fact that the last couple of years we’ve been in baby mode. There’s been some times during and after the pregnancy I was out of commission.
> It hurts.. to know this all started during the pregnancy of our last child. But it hurts the most to realized he has literally lied to me for 2 years.
> 
> And it hurts that he kept on with it. We have a good sex life. Seeing him touching himself while looking at another women really validates any insecurities.
> 
> So where are we now?
> 
> Right after this happened he saw the hurt it caused. He didn’t try to argue or downplay anything. He was very remorseful and deleted the app.
> He has a therapist. Says he thinks he actually had a bit of an addiction with his phone (also played games a lot) and sexual content was a byproduct to that. So because of that realization he doesn’t really keep his phone on him while home. He says he felt guilty every time he jacked off to another girl but told himself it wasn’t as bad because it wasn’t nudity or legit porn.
> 
> All of that sounds great right? And everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> But does this really qualify as a mistake. He admitted to doing this for the last 2 years and knew I’d be hurt it. Lied to me about it multiple times. When this was possibly the biggest and longest standing ground rule we’d set.
> 
> Almost a month out and my feelings for him remain empty. I used to feel so much love and gratitude that he was my person. I still care about him but it’s different. It’s just… meh. No attraction. No passion or fun times. He is still trying every day and I want those feelings back so bad.
> 
> But I just can’t bring myself to be anything more than a co parent / house mate.


I would suggest counseling and/or therapy for you individually and together as a couple if possible.

I'm very much anti porn or sex for sale at any level but I don't think that's the crux of your issue.

Trust and respect are more than likely the biggest factors combined with a feeling of betrayal of your intimacy. In other words, the crystal chamber inside you, the special place reserved only for the one you trusted with the key, feels violated.

It's too wonderful and precious of a place to allow that treatment so now it is closed and the lock has been changed. He didn't care for that chamber, brought filth inside and hurt you where you were most vulnerable and only in a way that your trusted one could, and never should.

The emotions you are feeling are similar to those experiencing infidelity.

The good news is that you both can heal and restore.

The bad news is that it's a lot of work and it's not fair to the person that's been hurt.

Treating this like a betrayal, what would you like to see happen?


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not that it matters but my opinion long before internet porn has
> 
> 
> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe so, but denial works both ways.
> 
> These facts also apply to your wife’s reaction to it, so unless your wife is ok with it then it will affect how she sees you. My impression is that many men are in a state of denial about this....you can claim all you want that it's not a substitute and for most men I think that's true but you don't control how she sees it.
> 
> Quoting statistics about all men doing it doesn't change anything about her reaction. Life is about trade offs and everything comes with a price, and we all decide what price we're willing to pay for the things we want. You should know what that price is.
> 
> My guy may well be looking at porn, but I hope he's smart enough not to let me see him jerking off to another woman. Some things you keep discreet.
> 
> 
> 
> I fully agree that everything comes with a price. But facts are facts whether I agree with them or not and I understand that some things are just what they are whether I agree, disagree, like, or dislike. Just because I state a fact, that doesn't mean I agree with it. For example, it's a fact that thousands will die from cancer this year. But stating that fact doesn't mean I agree with it or wish it, but I realize it's a reality no matter how much I wish it wasn't.
> 
> I agree that if one spouse does not like it, then the other needs to be completely discreet about it. But my wife watches the occasional porn video and I am 100% ok with it. There are some nights where I am just too tired. She will pull up one of the many sites and a sex toy of her choice and even ask if the volume is ok. She is also completely fine with me doing the same thing if she is on her period or whatever reason. And all of this is because we are sexually secure and mature enough to understand it's just a visual stimulation and not a replacement. Your not actually with those people, not going to meet them, and will forget their faces once done. I mean yeah, the guy in the video looks like he could rival a Pringles can 😂, but I know it's just a video.
> 
> As for the op, I wish her and her marriage the best. But if viewing some porn has brought it to the brink of divorcing, how are you going to handle the mental challenges and other scenarios in your marriage? I don't remember it exactly word for word. But the wife and I had it rough for the first 18 months of marriage to the point of nearly splitting. She had a friend I could not stand and my wife had some habits that I handled badly by starting to just pull away and ignore her. Our marriage counselor in a nutshell told me that I am going to have to realize that no two are perfect and I am going to have to learn how to accept some of those imperfections without shutting down towards her.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jimmysgirl

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What first hurt?


The one where she felt betrayed by his actions. Right or wrong she's hurting and he should (and did) acknowledge that. If someone in my life is hurting for any reason I'm sure as hell not going to cause them more pain to 'teach them a lesson'.


----------



## ConanHub

Jimmysgirl said:


> The one where she felt betrayed by his actions. Right or wrong she's hurting and he should (and did) acknowledge that. If someone in my life is hurting for any reason I'm sure as hell not going to cause them more pain to 'teach them a lesson'.


I believe he was more speaking I'm general terms about the state of the world and the quality of men and women.

OP has a very good man objectively.


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> You can put facts right in front of people and it makes no difference at times. Some people are in such a state of denial they are blinded..... Most all guys watch porn to some extent. It's not a replacement anymore than a woman's vibrator for the real thing. But everyone yells my spouse never watched it.


You don't seem to like the fact that many of us and many of our spouses DON'T watch it. 
It's true, we don't lie. There are actually many people around who choose not to let that crap into their minds or marriages. 
Besides that even if the majority do watch it so what? To me that shows how many people are doing something damaging for them and their marriages. How many are making very bad choices. Since when did the fact that a lot of people do something make it ok? Do we all have to follow the herd? Can't we go against the flow and put our spouse and marriage first?


----------



## ccpowerslave

What about computer generated porn where they’re not real performers, especially with no sound, and no motion capture? Probably yes for the anti crowd, but maybe no?

Is a sex toy ok if it is amorphous and doesn’t resemble anything anatomical, but if it does is that not ok?

Not really sure if it is OT for the original post but thought experiments I had reading the replies.


----------



## theloveofmylife

oldshirt said:


> Does he demand that you never double-click the mouse? If he were to catch you, would he lose all respect and affection and desire for you??


Seriously? 

I think lying to your wife is just the tiniest bit worse. Lusting after other women too, especially when he knew it would make her feel betrayed.



oldshirt said:


> People have a right to masturbate.


Certainly, but not while lusting after other women, when they promised not to do that (and repeatedly said they were keeping that promise, for years). 



oldshirt said:


> But know that it is choice based on YOUR own insecurities and issues and not because he did anything wrong or sinister and that you are turning away a decent and normal guy because of your own issues and not any wrong doing on his part.


Him hiding, lying, and betraying her is her fault? Really????



BigDaddyNY said:


> What is sexual content? Is it anything a guy can get off too? If he gets off to women in business suits and was masturbating to the Macy's catalog, did he break the promise?


Yes, if the promise was not to lust after other women and use his sexual energy on them. I get that you are trying to belittle the point, but no. It's not okay. 

Would it be okay if he jacked to a woman in a business suit in his living room? No? Of course not, but it's still another woman, even if there is a screen between them. 

Anyway, this is about trust. She feels betrayed.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy!

Diana7 said:


> You don't seem to like the fact that many of us and many of our spouses DON'T watch it.
> It's true, we don't lie. There are actually many people around who choose not to let that crap into their minds or marriages.
> Besides that even if the majority do watch it so what? To me that shows how many people are doing something damaging for them and their marriages. How many are making very bad choices. Since when did the fact that a lot of people do something make it ok? Do we all have to follow the herd? Can't we go against the flow and put our spouse and marriage first?


Facts don't care about my feelings or anyone else's feelings. The data is wide open on the growing use of porn. Just because I am stating it doesn't mean I support it. There are lots of statistics out there that are horrible, but whether I agree or like them doesn't change the reality. My main point is that people need to learn that some things are just going to be. And they can either live in a bubble of denial that will constantly affect them in a negative way or they can learn ways of adapting and adjusting. This applies to life in general.


----------



## Diana7

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Facts don't care about my feelings or anyone else's feelings. The data is wide open on the growing use of porn. Just because I am stating it doesn't mean I support it. There are lots of statistics out there that are horrible, but whether I agree or like them doesn't change the reality. My main point is that people need to learn that some things are just going to be. And they can either live in a bubble of denial that will constantly affect them in a negative way or they can learn ways of adapting and adjusting. This applies to life in general.


As I said I dont deny the majority watch this stuff, just as a majority do all sorts of damaging things, but thankfully there are many who go against the flow. A lot who go against the flow.


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> What about computer generated porn where they’re not real performers, especially with no sound, and no motion capture? Probably yes for the anti crowd, but maybe no?
> 
> Is a sex toy ok if it is amorphous and doesn’t resemble anything anatomical, but if it does is that not ok?
> 
> Not really sure if it is OT for the original post but thought experiments I had reading the replies.


Well for me I would stay away from porn period. Sex toys? Well its just the couple using them together. No one else is being bought into the equation.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Well for me I would stay away from porn period. Sex toys? Well its just the couple using them together. No one else is being bought into the equation.


Allegedly I heard there are toys that are modeled after the anatomy of adult performers.


----------



## Diana7

Wwll


ccpowerslave said:


> Allegedly I heard there are toys that are modeled after the anatomy of adult performers.


Well I guess there are sex toys and there are 'sex toys'.


----------



## LisaDiane

Jimmysgirl said:


> The one where she felt betrayed by his actions. Right or wrong she's hurting and he should (and did) acknowledge that. If someone in my life is hurting for any reason I'm sure as hell not going to cause them more pain to 'teach them a lesson'.


So you don't agree with the posters who say, let him catch her getting off to other men with bigger equipment to teach him a lesson then, either...?


----------



## FloridaGuy1

LisaDiane said:


> So you don't agree with the posters who say, let him catch her getting off to other men with bigger equipment to teach him a lesson then, either...?


The bad part in that thinking is there are guys (OK I am one of them) who would enjoy it if their wife were into watching ANYTHING sexual that might light her fire instead of being glued to videos on Youtube all day long.

Not trying to discount the situation of the OP but just stating the fact.


----------



## Evinrude58

As long as it was some goofy porn star that they’d never meet in reality, it wouldn’t bother me much. Especially if she got all fired up and ripped my clothes off.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> What about computer generated porn where they’re not real performers, especially with no sound, and no motion capture? Probably yes for the anti crowd, but maybe no?
> 
> Is a sex toy ok if it is amorphous and doesn’t resemble anything anatomical, but if it does is that not ok?
> 
> Not really sure if it is OT for the original post but thought experiments I had reading the replies.


Until I got on TAM and saw how many marriages it was destroying, my main objection to porn was that I was exposed to it young and that it objectifies and exploits women and often involves sex trafficking of enslaved women. Now that I see what it does to women, with men wanting to make their women and wives into porn stars, that is my new objection. 

Make it all cartoons and my remaining objections are 1) it's not good for kids to be exposed to, cartoons or not; 2) it still objectifies women (but it no longer enslaves and exploits them); 3) and even if it's cartoons, there will still be some husband out there who wants his wife to try that. So it gets rid of what was my main concern, the human sex trafficking, but only in that sector. They would still be trafficked for prostitution. At least if it was cartoons, you can tell your kids, It's not real. 

That was a good question, CCP.


----------



## Jimmysgirl

LisaDiane said:


> So you don't agree with the posters who say, let him catch her getting off to other men with bigger equipment to teach him a lesson then, either...?


Nope. 2 wrongs don't make a right.


----------



## damo7

Do you make him leave the room if a sex scene is on TV? Is he allowed to masturbate? Touch his own body? 
Single men view porn, it doesnt involve anyone else. To prevent someone masturbating is abuse as far as I'm concerned - his body, his choice. If you're insecure, that's your problem. 
Porn IS NOT sex, IS NOT cheating. Most men today look at porn. Either you accept it or find a better liar. 
I'd never date you.


----------



## SadHeart000

damo7 said:


> Do you make him leave the room if a sex scene is on TV? Is he allowed to masturbate? Touch his own body?
> Single men view porn, it doesnt involve anyone else. To prevent someone masturbating is abuse as far as I'm concerned - his body, his choice. If you're insecure, that's your problem.
> Porn IS NOT sex, IS NOT cheating. Most men today look at porn. Either you accept it or find a better liar.
> I'd never date you.


You haven’t read what all I’ve wrote on this thread but yes I know sex is everywhere and I don’t expect him to turn his head. He can masterbate as much as he wants, that’s very healthy and normal. I just don’t like it to the visual to another women. He was completely ok to go along with that and it was never even close to a disagreement between us anytime it was talked about. We have disagreements and compromised on other things… but this was never one of them. So he failed himself and me on that promise and it just hurts. 

Comments like yours really make me regret posting on here.


----------



## minimalME

SadHeart000 said:


> Comments like yours really make me regret posting on here.


I hope you'll stay. 🤗 

You're totally free to create any standard you'd like in your life. And no one else has to approve, and you _do not_ need to explain yourself. 

Your convictions are yours.


----------



## TexasMom1216

SadHeart000 said:


> You haven’t read what all I’ve wrote on this thread but yes I know sex is everywhere and I don’t expect him to turn his head. He can masterbate as much as he wants, that’s very healthy and normal. I just don’t like it to the visual to another women. He was completely ok to go along with that and it was never even close to a disagreement between us anytime it was talked about. We have disagreements and compromised on other things… but this was never one of them. So he failed himself and me on that promise and it just hurts.
> 
> Comments like yours really make me regret posting on here.


Sadly this is happening more and more on here. I’m sorry so many are SO unhelpful. I use the ignore function liberally to deal with the woman-hating on this forum. I hope you stay, there are a few people on here who actually want to help instead of just bashing women constantly.


----------



## ccpowerslave

DownByTheRiver said:


> it objectifies and exploits women…


That is what my mom said when she threw out my favorite porno mag in high school.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sadly this is happening more and more on here. I’m sorry so many are SO unhelpful. I use the ignore function liberally to deal with the woman-hating on this forum. I hope you stay, there are a few people on here who actually want to help instead of just bashing women constantly.


No, it's not. There are many people here and we all have different opinions. It's a public board and you have to accept you will get all sorts of advice. Good, bad and awful. Of course, it's going to be a shock at first and many posters will leave. It's the nature of these platforms.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> No, it's not. There are many people here and we all have different opinions. It's a public board and you have to accept you will get all sorts of advice. Good, bad and awful. Of course, it's going to be a shock at first and many posters will leave. It's the nature of these platforms.


I’m not the only one who sees it.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> That is what my mom said when she threw out my favorite porno mag in high school.


It's true. And as is evident on this forum it seems to have overtime created a culture who believe it's okay to think women are good for nothing but sex.


----------



## TexasMom1216

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. And has is evident on this forum it seems to have overtime created a culture who believe it's okay to think women are good for nothing but sex.


Wasn’t there a whole thread that basically said women are just sex objects that use men for money?


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not the only one who sees it.


I don't see it. TAM goes through phases. Haters get bored after a while and they leave, especially if don't engage with them...


----------



## In Absentia

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. And has is evident on this forum it seems to have overtime created a culture who believe it's okay to think women are good for nothing but sex.


There is a bit of that, but I believe it's just a reflection of society in general.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> I don't see it. TAM goes through phases. Haters get bored after a while and they leave, especially if don't engage with them...


Oh well if YOU don’t see it then I suppose the women need to hush. 🙄. You’re kinda making my point here. Regardless, I hope the OP doesn’t leave because of those posters. The ignore function makes all the difference.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh well if YOU don’t see it then I suppose the women need to hush. 🙄.


You really like jumping to conclusions...


----------



## ccpowerslave

I think I don’t see a lot of the nonsense because I have a lot of people on ignore.


----------



## TexasMom1216

ccpowerslave said:


> I think I don’t see a lot of the nonsense because I have a lot of people on ignore.


Sometimes I can’t follow the conversation because I have so many of the toxic people on ignore. 🤪😂😂😂. Threads like this one always swell the “ignore” rolls for me.


----------



## ConanHub

damo7 said:


> Do you make him leave the room if a sex scene is on TV? Is he allowed to masturbate? Touch his own body?
> Single men view porn, it doesnt involve anyone else. To prevent someone masturbating is abuse as far as I'm concerned - his body, his choice. If you're insecure, that's your problem.
> Porn IS NOT sex, IS NOT cheating. Most men today look at porn. Either you accept it or find a better liar.
> I'd never date you.


Well, they had established boundaries that he agreed to and violated.

My wife and I have similar boundaries and both of us take care of business when needed.

OP doesn't have a problem with masturbation either.

You should read the posts and you would understand that you are responding to a much different situation than is being presented here.


----------



## ConanHub

SadHeart000 said:


> You haven’t read what all I’ve wrote on this thread but yes I know sex is everywhere and I don’t expect him to turn his head. He can masterbate as much as he wants, that’s very healthy and normal. I just don’t like it to the visual to another women. He was completely ok to go along with that and it was never even close to a disagreement between us anytime it was talked about. We have disagreements and compromised on other things… but this was never one of them. So he failed himself and me on that promise and it just hurts.
> 
> Comments like yours really make me regret posting on here.


Well I hope you hang around.

I corrected him and I'm even a man.😉

I'm obviously not enjoying your dilemma but I do believe your experience and sharing of your circumstances is enriching to this forum.

I also sincerely hope you and your husband grow your marriage and are able to make it stronger and even more satisfying over the years.


----------



## minimalME

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's true. And has is evident on this forum it seems to have overtime created a culture who believe it's okay to think women are good for nothing but sex.


On the one hand, I think what pisses a lot of men off is that women actually have a say now. Because before (the industrial revolution) we didn't control much of anything in our lives.

This thread reminds of the unreasonable dating demand that you have sex by date 3, or you're tossed. I was bullied over and over again - by strangers. I was consistently treated llike I was the problem by men who hardly even knew my name - and who could not have cared less about me. Because...that's just how modern dating is. 🙄

But on the other hand, women have to stop behaving like men. They have to be willing to step back and say, 'no' to sexual demands they disagree with. It's women who've lowered the standards. And if enough women raised the bar, I can guarantee you that things would change.


----------



## TexasMom1216

minimalME said:


> On the one hand, I think what pisses a lot of men off is that women actually have a say now. Because before (the industrial revolution) we didn't control much of anything in our lives.
> 
> This thread reminds of the unreasonable dating demand that you have sex by date 3, or you're tossed. I was bullied over and over again - by strangers. I was consistently treated llike I was the problem by men who hardly even knew my name - and who could not have cared less about me. Because...that's just how modern dating is. 🙄
> 
> But on the other hand, women have to stop behaving like men. They have to be willing to step back and say, 'no' to sexual demands they disagree with. It's women who've lowered the standards. And if enough women raised the bar, I can guarantee you that things would change.


Agreed. We have to have the self esteem and confidence to say “if asking you to treat me with respect and be faithful is too much, then I’d rather be alone.” We have the option of supporting ourselves now, we no longer need to humiliate ourselves for the amusement of men who don’t care about us for room and board.


----------



## minimalME

TexasMom1216 said:


> Agreed. We have to have the self esteem and confidence to say “if asking you to treat me with respect and be faithful is too much, then I’d rather be alone.”


And that's where I am, and I haven't missed 'dating' at all. Not even a little bit. 😊


----------



## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> On the one hand, I think what pisses a lot of men off is that women actually have a say now. Because before (the industrial revolution) we didn't control much of anything in our lives.


I don't think it pissed "a lot" of men. It pisses "some" men. Men that should be marginalised or sent to Jupiter, or whatever. Luckily, there are lots of men who live in this century and manage to have decent and respectful relationships with women. Like anything else, some behaviours are amplified by social media so we see a lot more of them. This board reflects this as well. Anybody can say anything here. But it's important not to generalise. Not that I think you were generalising.


----------



## ccpowerslave

minimalME said:


> This thread reminds of the unreasonable dating demand that you have sex by date 3, or you're tossed. I was bullied over and over again - by strangers. I was consistently treated llike I was the problem by men who hardly even knew my name - and who could not have cared less about me. Because...that's just how modern dating is. 🙄


Yeah that sucks.

I certainly was not that type of guy when I was younger which is fortunate otherwise I wouldn’t be married.

Now that I am older I know there are women who have the sexual patterns and behavior of men they literally fall from the sky.

I think for that subset of men who want to go out and have a lot of sex with random women if they’re decent looking and such and have some of the other “list items” there seem to be lots of willing participants on both sides.


----------



## TexasMom1216

minimalME said:


> And that's where I am, and I haven't missed 'dating' at all. Not even a little bit. 😊


It’s where I was when I met my now husband. We have to be independent. It is a mistake to rely on someone else financially.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> And that's where I am, and I haven't missed 'dating' at all. Not even a little bit. 😊


Your experience and those of good men as well, make me glad to not be single.

It seems like a real animal house all around.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

theloveofmylife said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I think lying to your wife is just the tiniest bit worse. Lusting after other women too, especially when he knew it would make her feel betrayed.
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, but not while lusting after other women, when they promised not to do that (and repeatedly said they were keeping that promise, for years).
> 
> 
> 
> Him hiding, lying, and betraying her is her fault? Really????
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, if the promise was not to lust after other women and use his sexual energy on them. I get that you are trying to belittle the point, but no. It's not okay.
> 
> Would it be okay if he jacked to a woman in a business suit in his living room? No? Of course not, but it's still another woman, even if there is a screen between them.
> 
> Anyway, this is about trust. She feels betrayed.


I really wasn't trying to belittle anything. The OP has since clarified that the agreement was any image of another woman. Prior she only said sexual content. Any woman regardless of what she is wearing or doing makes more sense, otherwise sexual content needs a definition.

As much as I'm baffled by her hangup over any image of another woman, it is her prerogative and he agreed, so it is all about trust. I agree.

I'm still curious as to why you would check in on this one explicitly a couple times a year, year after year and not other boundaries like straight up cheating.


----------



## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> And that's where I am, and I haven't missed 'dating' at all. Not even a little bit. 😊


And that's why I'm not dating and I have no intention. It's a jungle out there...


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> Well for me I would stay away from porn period. Sex toys? Well its just the couple using them together. No one else is being bought into the equation.


There are some that believe toys that look to similar to the real thing are bad too. There a Christian friendly adult toys stores online that specifically avoid dildos that look "too real" for that very reason.


----------



## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm still curious as to why you would check in on this one explicitly a couple times a year, year after year and not other boundaries like straight up cheating.


This piqued my curiosity as well.

There's a great chance we can't help with uncovering the root here but some good therapy could.


----------



## ConanHub

BigDaddyNY said:


> There are some that believe toys that look to similar to the real thing are bad too. There a Christian friendly adult toys stores online that specifically avoid dildos that look "too real" for that very reason.


As long as it's between the two, it's all good.😉


----------



## SadHeart000

ConanHub said:


> This piqued my curiosity as well.
> 
> There's a great chance we can't help with uncovering the root here but some good therapy could.


The question about viewing sexual content was asked in a larger discussion of “how are things going for us”. A periodic check in on our relationship. The last couple of years have included pregnancy (and complications) then a newborn. We have a good sex life normally but during the times where it was slow I was curious if he changed his stance on masterbating to the visual of other women.
Of any ground rules in our marriage I guess I saw this one as one that could be easily broken due to easy access to sexual content.. whether he looked for it or it fell into his lap.


----------



## Anastasia6

SadHeart000 said:


> The question about viewing sexual content was asked in a larger discussion of “how are things going for us”. A periodic check in on our relationship. The last couple of years have included pregnancy (and complications) then a newborn. We have a good sex life normally but during the times where it was slow I was curious if he changed his stance on masterbating to the visual of other women.
> Of any ground rules in our marriage I guess I saw this one as one that could be easily broken due to easy access to sexual content.. whether he looked for it or it fell into his lap.


It's so healthy for a marriage to have these check ins. Me and my husband do it frequently. It's also a great time to discuss topics that may need adjustment as it is usually not when anyone is currently experiencing a problem. Talking about things when there is an immediate issue can make it hard for people to hear each other.

Good job having such a healthy foundation.


----------



## ConanHub

SadHeart000 said:


> The question about viewing sexual content was asked in a larger discussion of “how are things going for us”. A periodic check in on our relationship. The last couple of years have included pregnancy (and complications) then a newborn. We have a good sex life normally but during the times where it was slow I was curious if he changed his stance on masterbating to the visual of other women.
> Of any ground rules in our marriage I guess I saw this one as one that could be easily broken due to easy access to sexual content.. whether he looked for it or it fell into his lap.


Thanks for elaborating.


----------



## Diana7

damo7 said:


> Do you make him leave the room if a sex scene is on TV? Is he allowed to masturbate? Touch his own body?
> Single men view porn, it doesnt involve anyone else. To prevent someone masturbating is abuse as far as I'm concerned - his body, his choice. If you're insecure, that's your problem.
> Porn IS NOT sex, IS NOT cheating. Most men today look at porn. Either you accept it or find a better liar.
> I'd never date you.


Masturbating and porn are different things. People have been doing one without the other throughout history. 

Most men doing something doesn't make it ok. 

Yes it does involve others. Many others. It's mentally cheating. 

It's nothing to do with insecurity . We are both very secure people, we both choose not to watch porn because we know its damaging and harmful to us and our marriage. We also dont want to support such an industry.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Yes it does involve others. Many others. It's mentally cheating.


Is it still mentally cheating if a guy (for example) sees a lady wearing yoga pants at the store, remembers it, then goes home and masturbates?

There was no media involved, I assume still bad though.

In this case I’d say it’s a nearly impossible standard if every time a person has a sexual impulse of any kind they immediately redirect it to their partner. 

For example I went out to get coffee and bring it back a few weeks ago and there was a lady working in the parking lot that had a 10/10 figure (for what I like). I still remember what she looks like almost exactly and it was weeks ago. She wasn’t even wearing suggestive clothes, just black jeans and a blouse. I wasn’t trying to be exposed to a hot lady wearing black jeans, but she was between my car and Starbucks.


----------



## TexasMom1216

ccpowerslave said:


> Is it still mentally cheating if a guy (for example) sees a lady wearing yoga pants at the store, remembers it, then goes home and masturbates?
> 
> There was no media involved, I assume still bad though.
> 
> In this case I’d say it’s a nearly impossible standard if every time a person has a sexual impulse of any kind they immediately redirect it to their partner.
> 
> For example I went out to get coffee and bring it back a few weeks ago and there was a lady working in the parking lot that had a 10/10 figure (for what I like). I still remember what she looks like almost exactly and it was weeks ago. She wasn’t even wearing suggestive clothes, just black jeans and a blouse. I wasn’t trying to be exposed to a hot lady wearing black jeans, but she was between my car and Starbucks.


You can do these things, but don’t be surprised when your wife pulls away from you emotionally and sexually. It’s a lot to ask that she be open when you clearly prefer other women to her.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ccpowerslave said:


> Is it still mentally cheating if a guy (for example) sees a lady wearing yoga pants at the store, remembers it, then goes home and masturbates?
> 
> There was no media involved, I assume still bad though.
> 
> In this case I’d say it’s a nearly impossible standard if every time a person has a sexual impulse of any kind they immediately redirect it to their partner.
> 
> For example I went out to get coffee and bring it back a few weeks ago and there was a lady working in the parking lot that had a 10/10 figure (for what I like). I still remember what she looks like almost exactly and it was weeks ago. She wasn’t even wearing suggestive clothes, just black jeans and a blouse. I wasn’t trying to be exposed to a hot lady wearing black jeans, but she was between my car and Starbucks.


I think a clear line is a deliberate act.

It's like you said....you weren't looking for another woman to masturbate to...you happened to run into one you found attractive. Totally normal. I see hot men that appeal to me too.

Seeking out live women online to get off to is a deliberate act.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can do these things, but don’t be surprised when your wife pulls away from you emotionally and sexually. It’s a lot to ask that she be open when you clearly prefer other women to her.


But @ccpowerslave didn't say he preferred other women to his W.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But @ccpowerslave didn't say he preferred other women to his W.


He also didn't say that he didn't.


----------



## ccpowerslave

TexasMom1216 said:


> He also didn't say that he didn't.


Perfectly happy with my wife and proud when I show up places with her, I think she’s great.


----------



## ConanHub

ccpowerslave said:


> Is it still mentally cheating if a guy (for example) sees a lady wearing yoga pants at the store, remembers it, then goes home and masturbates?
> 
> There was no media involved, I assume still bad though.
> 
> In this case I’d say it’s a nearly impossible standard if every time a person has a sexual impulse of any kind they immediately redirect it to their partner.
> 
> For example I went out to get coffee and bring it back a few weeks ago and there was a lady working in the parking lot that had a 10/10 figure (for what I like). I still remember what she looks like almost exactly and it was weeks ago. She wasn’t even wearing suggestive clothes, just black jeans and a blouse. I wasn’t trying to be exposed to a hot lady wearing black jeans, but she was between my car and Starbucks.


Christians, and others with similar boundaries, shouldn't be using real people in their minds to get off sexually.

I'm sure a lot of them do but don't confess BTW.😉

I think you're a pretty straight guy with a good marriage.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ConanHub said:


> Christians, and others with similar boundaries, shouldn't be using real people in their minds to get off sexually.
> 
> I'm sure a lot of them do but don't confess BTW.😉
> 
> I think you're a pretty straight guy with a good marriage.


BTW I didn’t use her for mental spank bank imagery I’m just saying that one could do this and how would you ever know? I guess you could ask and hope they tell the truth.

Even still I think it would be impossible to turn off the “this person is attractive” immediate thought.


----------



## ConanHub

ccpowerslave said:


> BTW I didn’t use her for mental spank bank imagery I’m just saying that one could do this and how would you ever know? I guess you could ask and hope they tell the truth.
> 
> Even still I think it would be impossible to turn off the “this person is attractive” immediate thought.


I agree with it being very unrealistic not to appreciate good looking people.

Someone's thoughts are their business and between them, their conscience and their diety if they have one.

I could probably be put in a dungeon for my thought life! LoL!

I have a friend who's divorced now but his wife became obsessed with him being attracted to other women and he had a history of porn use that she was also obsessed with.

He would come home from work and she would immediately start grilling him on every woman he might have seen that day that he might have thought was attractive. It was deranged and I would have had some fun with it myself. My buddy was too nice of a guy though and really tried to accommodate his wife's mental problems.

What's really ironic is his wife had actually cheated on him more than once and had no problems disrespecting him in front of others and saying how hot or attractive she found other men and celebrities in front of anyone who would listen.😵‍💫

He is a great father, provider and all around good guy who earned all the money and did all the chores and did 90% of the childcare during their marriage.

Mrs. Conan and I were witnesses for his custody hearing. He got primary custody because she decided to go out and start having sex with other men while expecting him to babysit.

She left on a trip to mess around and got served.

I only wanted to comment on the whole thought life issue but I didn't want my friend savaged here so I explained his situation.


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> Is it still mentally cheating if a guy (for example) sees a lady wearing yoga pants at the store, remembers it, then goes home and masturbates?
> 
> There was no media involved, I assume still bad though.
> 
> In this case I’d say it’s a nearly impossible standard if every time a person has a sexual impulse of any kind they immediately redirect it to their partner.
> 
> For example I went out to get coffee and bring it back a few weeks ago and there was a lady working in the parking lot that had a 10/10 figure (for what I like). I still remember what she looks like almost exactly and it was weeks ago. She wasn’t even wearing suggestive clothes, just black jeans and a blouse. I wasn’t trying to be exposed to a hot lady wearing black jeans, but she was between my car and Starbucks.


We can't help what we see of course, but we can help what we think about and dwell on.
Porn is very different in that it's a deliberate choice to watch it.


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I agree with it being very unrealistic not to appreciate good looking people.
> 
> Someone's thoughts are their business and between them, their conscience and their diety if they have one.
> 
> I could probably be put in a dungeon for my thought life! LoL!
> 
> I have a friend who's divorced now but his wife became obsessed with him being attracted to other women and he had a history of porn use that she was also obsessed with.
> 
> He would come home from work and she would immediately start grilling him on every woman he might have seen that day that he might have thought was attractive. It was deranged and I would have had some fun with it myself. My buddy was too nice of a guy though and really tried to accommodate his wife's mental problems.
> 
> What's really ironic is his wife had actually cheated on him more than once and had no problems disrespecting him in front of others and saying how hot or attractive she found other men and celebrities in front of anyone who would listen.😵‍💫
> 
> He is a great father, provider and all around good guy who earned all the money and did all the chores and did 90% of the childcare during their marriage.
> 
> Mrs. Conan and I were witnesses for his custody hearing. He got primary custody because she decided to go out and start having sex with other men while expecting him to babysit.
> 
> She left on a trip to mess around and got served.
> 
> I only wanted to comment on the whole thought life issue but I didn't want my friend savaged here so I explained his situation.


Have you heard that saying where the thoughts go the man follows? 
Our thought life is so important. Often it's a battle field.


----------



## ConanHub

Diana7 said:


> Have you heard that saying where the thoughts go the man follows?
> Our thought life is so important. Often it's a battle field.


You will find no argument here but my friend never cheated. Not once. His deranged ex should have kept track of her own thoughts instead of pestering him about his and maybe she wouldn't be divorced with visitation.😉


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> We can't help what we see of course, but we can help what we think about and dwell in.
> Porn is very different in that it's a deliberate choice to watch it.


Makes sense.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Our thought life is so important. Often it's a battle field.


I agree. Heartache to heartache we stand. No promises, no demands.

Thoughts are a battlefield.


----------



## ConanHub

ccpowerslave said:


> I agree. Heartache to heartache we stand. No promises, no demands.
> 
> Thoughts are a battlefield.


BENATAR!!! ⚡


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> You will find no argument here but my friend never cheated. Not once. His deranged ex should have kept track of her own thoughts instead of pestering him about his and maybe she wouldn't be divorced with visitation.😉


Yes I agree. She clearly has issues.


----------



## theloveofmylife

ccpowerslave said:


> BTW I didn’t use her for mental spank bank imagery I’m just saying that one could do this and how would you ever know? I guess you could ask and hope they tell the truth.


Maybe not all women can tell, but many of us just feel something "off" when being compared to others. It puts us on guard, makes us pull away.

Guys say they don't compare, but yes, they do. Even if it's subconsciously. I'm sure porn images stay etched in the mind for quite a while as well. Women can't make men stop seeing those images (or be aware of those) either, but we often sense something.

I wish we could all be 20 again, but alas, no.



ccpowerslave said:


> Even still I think it would be impossible to turn off the “this person is attractive” immediate thought.


Yeah, that's just unrealistic. I think you can appreciate beauty and move on though.


----------



## Diana7

theloveofmylife said:


> Maybe not all women can tell, but many of us just feel something "off" when being compared to others. It puts us on guard, makes us pull away.
> 
> Guys say they don't compare, but yes, they do. Even if it's subconsciously. I'm sure porn images stay etched in the mind for quite a while as well. Women can't make men stop seeing those images (or be aware of those) either, but we often sense something.
> 
> I wish we could all be 20 again, but alas, no.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's just unrealistic. I think you can appreciate beauty and move on though.


That's one of the problems with porn, the images remain even if you stop looking.


----------



## TexasMom1216

theloveofmylife said:


> I wish we could all be 20 again, but alas, no.


Exactly this. And it’s insulting when men claim they don’t compare their wives unfavorably. It’s a ridiculous claim.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Exactly this. And it’s insulting when men claim they don’t compare their wives unfavorably. It’s a ridiculous claim.


I have to tell you, it is not a ridiculous claim. You do not know what is in someone else's mind. You are making an assumption based on your point of view, and maybe some personal insecurities, and that is ok. It is who you are and you are entitled to your feelings, but so am I. I've stopped using porn, but I'm not oblivious to women around me, on TV, SM, etc. I can look and appreciate them, but what I never, ever do is think, "wow, if only my wife looked like her" or "man, she sure does have a better butt than my wife." Maybe some husbands do, I DO NOT and I truly believe most husbands don't. That thought has never crossed my mind, in fact it is usually the opposite reaction. My wife is the most beautiful, sexy and desirable woman in the world. She knows that is exactly how I feel because I tell her all the time and I physically let her know how attracted I am to her. I can confidently say I am attracted to her more than I was 35 years ago. It actually amazes me sometimes how I feel about her, but it is all true.

I mean this in the most constructive way possible. You are the one that is comparing unfavorably, not your husband and husbands in general. I don't blame you for it. It is human nature. I will sometimes unfavorably compare myself to some other guy in the gym. I just don't let it bother me, it may even motivate me.

Many wives feel that they are being compared to women they see as better looking or having some aesthetic about them that is superior. They feel their husbands lose desire for them when they look at these other women. They feel even worse knowing that their husband is pleasuring himself to orgasm while looking at these other women.

Many husbands look at other women with no emotion and without creating any negative impression of their wives. It creates a biological response that makes it easier to pleasure themselves and achieve orgasm. When they are done they are still madly in love with the most beautiful and sexy woman they've ever laid eyes one, their wife.

Both of those statements are completely true, whether you want to believe it or not. It is how the wives feel and it is how the husbands feel. Both feelings are valid. All that said, I look at this from the standpoint of what does the least harm to the individuals and to the marriage. If the wife doesn't feel threatened or disrespected by the husband looking at or masturbating to images of other women, then by all means, go for it. If the wife does feel as mentioned above, like @SadHeart000 , then the husband should agree to not use images of other women. He can still masturbate if he chooses, so least harm done. To me this is what a loving partner would do. Doing this does not invalidate the fact that the husband didn't lose desire for his wife by looking at images of other women, but he is doing it for the benefit of his wife's feelings. 

As I think we've all said, if you make a promise it is important for you to follow-through with that promise. I would like the women here to understand though, that if a man breaks this particular promise, like OP's husband, and all else is great, then trying to work it out would be the kind and loving thing do. He made a mistake. He may have even made a conscious choice to do it then lie. However, as @LisaDiane said this is a lie to cover up his shame, not to trick to wife. I know this may sound like splitting hairs, but it is different than lying about something like cheating. The husband didn't make an emotional connection with the image. He didn't have physical contact with the person in the image. Despite what you may believe, he is not wishing his wife looked like that person in the image. The image is a tool like a dildo or vibrator is for a woman. He screwed up by lying due to his embarrassment, but please don't throw out a good marriage because of something like this.


----------



## SadHeart000

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have to tell you, it is not a ridiculous claim. You do not know what is in someone else's mind. You are making an assumption based on your point of view, and maybe some personal insecurities, and that is ok. It is who you are and you are entitled to your feelings, but so am I. I've stopped using porn, but I'm not oblivious to women around me, on TV, SM, etc. I can look and appreciate them, but what I never, ever do is think, "wow, if only my wife looked like her" or "man, she sure does have a better butt than my wife." Maybe some husbands do, I DO NOT and I truly believe most husbands don't. That thought has never crossed my mind, in fact it is usually the opposite reaction. My wife is the most beautiful, sexy and desirable woman in the world. She knows that is exactly how I feel because I tell her all the time and I physically let her know how attracted I am to her. I can confidently say I am attracted to her more than I was 35 years ago. It actually amazes me sometimes how I feel about her, but it is all true.
> 
> I mean this in the most constructive way possible. You are the one that is comparing unfavorably, not your husband and husbands in general. I don't blame you for it. It is human nature. I will sometimes unfavorably compare myself to some other guy in the gym. I just don't let it bother me, it may even motivate me.
> 
> Many wives feel that they are being compared to women they see as better looking or having some aesthetic about them that is superior. They feel their husbands lose desire for them when they look at these other women. They feel even worse knowing that their husband is pleasuring himself to orgasm while looking at these other women.
> 
> Many husbands look at other women with no emotion and without creating any negative impression of their wives. It creates a biological response that makes it easier to pleasure themselves and achieve orgasm. When they are done they are still madly in love with the most beautiful and sexy woman they've ever laid eyes one, their wife.
> 
> Both of those statements are completely true, whether you want to believe it or not. It is how the wives feel and it is how the husbands feel. Both feelings are valid. All that said, I look at this from the standpoint of what does the least harm to the individuals and to the marriage. If the wife doesn't feel threatened or disrespected by the husband looking at or masturbating to images of other women, then by all means, go for it. If the wife does feel as mentioned above, like @SadHeart000 , then the husband should agree to not use images of other women. He can still masturbate if he chooses, so least harm done. To me this is what a loving partner would do. Doing this does not invalidate the fact that the husband didn't lose desire for his wife by looking at images of other women, but he is doing it for the benefit of his wife's feelings.
> 
> As I think we've all said, if you make a promise it is important for you to follow-through with that promise. I would like the women here to understand though, that if a man breaks this particular promise, like OP's husband, and all else is great, then trying to work it out would be the kind and loving thing do. He made a mistake. He may have even made a conscious choice to do it then lie. However, as @LisaDiane said this is a lie to cover up his shame, not to trick to wife. I know this may sound like splitting hairs, but it is different than lying about something like cheating. The husband didn't make an emotional connection with the image. He didn't have physical contact with the person in the image. Despite what you may believe, he is not wishing his wife looked like that person in the image. The image is a tool like a dildo or vibrator is for a woman. He screwed up by lying due to his embarrassment, but please don't throw out a good marriage because of something like this.


This was really well written. I appreciate your perspective.


----------



## In Absentia

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have to tell you, it is not a ridiculous claim.


I agree. Forgetting for a moment my present situation, I still prefer my wife's body to anything I see on the 'net. One of the many reasons I married her.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> I agree. Forgetting for a moment my present situation, I still prefer my wife's *body* to anything I see on the 'net. One of the many reasons I married her.


You’re gonna want to go back and edit your post, got a typo in there. 🤪

Congrats to you and @BigDaddyNY for being married to women with porn star bodies. I don’t have that so I will continue as I am.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> You’re gonna want to go back and edit your post, got a typo in there. 🤪


You lost me there...


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> You lost me there...


It says your “wife’s boy” and I think you wanted to put your wife’s body…


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> It says your “wife’s boy” and I think you wanted to put your wife’s body…


Ah yes, it does... lol...  corrected!


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> You’re gonna want to go back and edit your post, got a typo in there. 🤪
> 
> Congrats to you and @BigDaddyNY for being married to women with porn star bodies. I don’t have that so I will continue as I am.


It's nice to think that some men here see their wives in that way.


----------



## Diana7

She 


BigDaddyNY said:


> I have to tell you, it is not a ridiculous claim. You do not know what is in someone else's mind. You are making an assumption based on your point of view, and maybe some personal insecurities, and that is ok. It is who you are and you are entitled to your feelings, but so am I. I've stopped using porn, but I'm not oblivious to women around me, on TV, SM, etc. I can look and appreciate them, but what I never, ever do is think, "wow, if only my wife looked like her" or "man, she sure does have a better butt than my wife." Maybe some husbands do, I DO NOT and I truly believe most husbands don't. That thought has never crossed my mind, in fact it is usually the opposite reaction. My wife is the most beautiful, sexy and desirable woman in the world. She knows that is exactly how I feel because I tell her all the time and I physically let her know how attracted I am to her. I can confidently say I am attracted to her more than I was 35 years ago. It actually amazes me sometimes how I feel about her, but it is all true.
> 
> I mean this in the most constructive way possible. You are the one that is comparing unfavorably, not your husband and husbands in general. I don't blame you for it. It is human nature. I will sometimes unfavorably compare myself to some other guy in the gym. I just don't let it bother me, it may even motivate me.
> 
> Many wives feel that they are being compared to women they see as better looking or having some aesthetic about them that is superior. They feel their husbands lose desire for them when they look at these other women. They feel even worse knowing that their husband is pleasuring himself to orgasm while looking at these other women.
> 
> Many husbands look at other women with no emotion and without creating any negative impression of their wives. It creates a biological response that makes it easier to pleasure themselves and achieve orgasm. When they are done they are still madly in love with the most beautiful and sexy woman they've ever laid eyes one, their wife.
> 
> Both of those statements are completely true, whether you want to believe it or not. It is how the wives feel and it is how the husbands feel. Both feelings are valid. All that said, I look at this from the standpoint of what does the least harm to the individuals and to the marriage. If the wife doesn't feel threatened or disrespected by the husband looking at or masturbating to images of other women, then by all means, go for it. If the wife does feel as mentioned above, like @SadHeart000 , then the husband should agree to not use images of other women. He can still masturbate if he chooses, so least harm done. To me this is what a loving partner would do. Doing this does not invalidate the fact that the husband didn't lose desire for his wife by looking at images of other women, but he is doing it for the benefit of his wife's feelings.
> 
> As I think we've all said, if you make a promise it is important for you to follow-through with that promise. I would like the women here to understand though, that if a man breaks this particular promise, like OP's husband, and all else is great, then trying to work it out would be the kind and loving thing do. He made a mistake. He may have even made a conscious choice to do it then lie. However, as @LisaDiane said this is a lie to cover up his shame, not to trick to wife. I know this may sound like splitting hairs, but it is different than lying about something like cheating. The husband didn't make an emotional connection with the image. He didn't have physical contact with the person in the image. Despite what you may believe, he is not wishing his wife looked like that person in the image. The image is a tool like a dildo or vibrator is for a woman. He screwed up by lying due to his embarrassment, but please don't throw out a good marriage because of something like this.


She won't need to end the marriage if he stops the lies and porn.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In Absentia said:


> Ah yes, it does... lol...  corrected!


Nobody likes the grammar police but in that instance I feel like it's probably ok... 😉


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> It's nice to think that some men here see their wives in that way.


I believe a lot of husbands think of their wives the same way... despite of what happened between us, I still think my wife is beautiful.


----------



## In Absentia

TexasMom1216 said:


> Nobody likes the grammar police but in that instance I feel like it's probably ok... 😉


Absolutely...


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> You’re gonna want to go back and edit your post, got a typo in there. 🤪
> 
> Congrats to you and @BigDaddyNY for being *married to women with porn star bodies*. I don’t have that so I will continue as I am.


Wow, I've got multiple wives with porn star bodies, alright!! lol 

I think you are missing my point. YOUR husband has a wife with a "porn star" body too. Every man posting in this thread has a wife with a "porn star" body. I know you won't believe it, but I'm pretty sure that is how we all feel.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> She
> 
> She won't need to end the marriage if he stops the lies and porn.


I agree, but it seemed like that was a potential outcome even if he successfully stopped masturbating to images of other women.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> Wow, I've got multiple wives with porn star bodies, alright!! lol
> 
> I think you are missing my point. YOUR husband has a wife with a "porn star" body too. Every man posting in this thread has a wife with a "porn star" body. I know you won't believe it, but I'm pretty sure that is how we all feel.


At some point, pressing this becomes cruel.


----------



## ConanHub

I don't compare my wife to anyone.

I'm positive she isn't comparing me 

We just enjoy ourselves.

I do sometimes pretend she is a tart I picked up in a bar but she is still the same package but just a different wrapper.😉


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> At some point, pressing this becomes cruel.


Sorry, I don't know what you mean?


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry, I don't know what you mean?


Mocking me is unkind. My post wasn't responding to you, it was responding to another poster. I haven't responded to your posts except to say that your wife is beautiful and perfect. I'm not saying men shouldn't prefer young women with perfect bodies. I'm sure your wife works very hard and I admire her discipline. I don't see the point in dragging me about this.


----------



## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> Every man posting in this thread has a wife with a "porn star" body.


well, I don't.... To me it's like a Miss Universe body.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Mocking me is unkind. My post wasn't responding to you, it was responding to another poster. I haven't responded to your posts except to say that your wife is beautiful and perfect. I'm not saying men shouldn't prefer young women with perfect bodies. I'm sure your wife works very hard and I admire her discipline. I don't see the point in dragging me about this.


I am not mocking you in any way, shape or form. My wife doesn't have to work hard, she is perfect as is. She was 30 years ago and she will be 30 years from today. She could hit the gym 7 days a week or never, so long as she tries to keep herself healthy, she is perfect

My point is that your husband sees you as an incredible beauty. You are his most beautiful women. You are perfect. I mean this with all seriousness. I am not poking fun. It is the God's honest truth. This is how most husbands feel.


----------



## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> I am not mocking you in any way, shape or form


to me sitting from far away, but reading the way she responds to most men's posts, it clearly points to a woman with body issues, and consequent resentments because that way she perceives herself, no realizing that her, just by being a woman, she's already beautiful to a little over half of the world's population (and then some). 

This is a serious problem with today's society, where women are constantly being bombarded with images of other women that supposedly are the "it" to all, and all standards of beauty. It's so funny to see all those women with their cell phones, taking selfies of their contorted bodies into some grotesque shapes, and making their lips protrude like they were punched in their mouth and the inflammation is still on. To me, the sad part is that it is mostly women doing this to themselves, but blaming the big, bad men for feeling that they have to do it to compete with other women.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> At some point, pressing this becomes cruel.


@TexasMom1216 can you elaborate? It's not you but I'm not understanding what you mean. I mean that sincerely, not in a smart butt way. Trying to hear and listen thoroughly.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @TexasMom1216 can you elaborate? It's not you but I'm not understanding what you mean. I mean that sincerely, not in a smart butt way. Trying to hear and listen thoroughly.


I replied to BigDaddy about it. 


TexasMom1216 said:


> Mocking me is unkind. My post wasn't responding to you, it was responding to another poster. I haven't responded to your posts except to say that your wife is beautiful and perfect. I'm not saying men shouldn't prefer young women with perfect bodies. I'm sure your wife works very hard and I admire her discipline. I don't see the point in dragging me about this.


----------



## In Absentia

My wife used to have massive body issues, so I get it... it was impossible to get it out of her head, regardless of what I said. It was a lost battle. When she withdrew from our sex life, I asked her, no sex forever? She replied... maybe when I've lost the weight. And that was it. She's still hasn't lost any... in fact, it's got worse. Maybe on purpose, so she doesn't have to have sex with me ever again... 😂


----------



## LisaDiane

In Absentia said:


> My wife used to have massive body issues, so I get it... it was impossible to get it out of her head, regardless of what I said. It was a lost battle. When she withdrew from our sex life, I asked her, no sex forever? She replied... maybe when I've lost the weight. And that was it. She's still hasn't lost any... in fact, it's got worse. Maybe on purpose, so she doesn't have to have sex with me ever again... 😂


I thought she doesn't have to worry about having sex with you ever again because she knows your marriage is over, right?


----------



## In Absentia

LisaDiane said:


> I thought she doesn't have to worry about having sex with you ever again because she knows your marriage is over, right?


yes, that's the ultimate reason because I refused to be in a totally sexless marriage... but at first she came up with loads of reasons to stop the sex (but still be married) and the weight was one of them.


----------



## LisaDiane

In Absentia said:


> yes, that's the ultimate reason because I refused to be in a totally sexless marriage... but at first she came up with loads of reasons to stop the sex (but still be married) and the weight was one of them.





In Absentia said:


> She's still hasn't lost any... in fact, it's got worse. Maybe on purpose, so she doesn't have to have sex with me ever again... 😂


Then I wonder if gaining more weight is a way for her to keep OTHER men from being interested.


----------



## In Absentia

LisaDiane said:


> Then I wonder if gaining more weight is a way for her to keep OTHER men from being interested.


no, she’s comfort eating… but who knows what’s going on in her head…


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> I replied to BigDaddy about it.


Thanks!


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> I believe a lot of husbands think of their wives the same way... despite of what happened between us, I still think my wife is beautiful.


That's lovely 😍 If a woman's husband thinks they are beautiful that's what matters.


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## ThatDarnGuy!

BigDaddyNY said:


> I am not mocking you in any way, shape or form. My wife doesn't have to work hard, she is perfect as is. She was 30 years ago and she will be 30 years from today. She could hit the gym 7 days a week or never, so long as she tries to keep herself healthy, she is perfect
> 
> My point is that your husband sees you as an incredible beauty. You are his most beautiful women. You are perfect. I mean this with all seriousness. I am not poking fun. It is the God's honest truth. This is how most husbands feel.


This brings up a good point. I feel that women WAY overthink their looks and imperfections. Yes, if you are just a slob who wears dirty clothes, has poor personal hygiene, and just doesn't care. That is going to be a problem.

But I once had a discussion with my wife's friend about this subject. Not long after my wife got her boob surgery, her friend was over and they were talking. Her friend is talking about how one boob is bigger than the other, she has lines around the eyes, and some other things she wants to get taken care of. We got to talking and I said men are far more relaxed about stuff like that then women understand. I asked her if any guy in her life has ever pointed and said omg, one of your boobs is bigger than the other and you need to put your clothes back on.... This got her thinking and she said you know, that has never happened.

Trust me ladies, your guy doesn't care about those lines/wrinkles, he doesn't care about that extra padding. He doesn't care about saggy or uneven boobs. 

I don't care if they don't match or ones bigger than the other. You could show me one, and I'll imagine the other. Even if you're really old, theres nothing wrong, don't be sad your boobs ain't bad, they're just a little long. Even if you had thirteen kids and you think they look deflated.


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