# Privacy in marriage



## OKTex (Dec 16, 2020)

A little back ground. We have been married for 10 years. This is a second marriage for both of us. Both of our first marriages ended due to our spouse's cheating. I have a son from previous marriage and she has a daughter from previous marriage and we both have a daughter together. 

Fast forward to today as I am writing this. We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch. She tells me how that I get to go to work everyday and be around coworkers while she works from home and has to deal with the kids all day. It frustrated me because I have had a work week from hell the last two weeks because there are two coworkers that have been out with covid and I have had to do the job of 3 people. I am in the middle 40's and already hate my job and I rarely talk about work at home because I want to decompress from the day. Perhaps I should have been more sympathetic to her at the time but I was so mad and frustrated because rarely does anybody ever care about how I feel in my house and how that my feelings about our sex life falls on deaf ears. I responded to her by saying "I don't know what to say right now". 

Then on monday, one of our neighbors came over for some reason during the day and I over head my wife talking about the fight we had to the neighbor (that is also her friend). The reason I found out is because we have a doorbell that records video and sound and I was checking the doorbell app because we had an appointment for somebody to come to our house and they never showed up but they claimed they did. 

This is not the first time I have seen her bash me or talk about our personal life to her family or friends. I am a very private person and I believe that issues between husband and wife are not the business of anybody other than husband and wife. My son has been in some trouble the last few years and I have heard her talking to family members and friends about it like it is weekly gossip. Again, It is not something I like to discuss with everybody. 

I sent her a text saying "keep in mind the next time you bash me to your friends, remember the doorbell picks up the audio as well". 

She responded with "thanks for listening in" and then "sorry you had to hear that. Little bit of invasion of my privacy" 

I just responded with a "wow" and she said "wow like that's not an invasion of my privacy?" 

I was floored that my wife was gossiping about our personal life like a tabloid magazine and doesn't own it and then proceeds to make me feel ashamed for catching her bashing me to a person that we both see almost on a daily basis. All this neighbor knows is how much of an awful person I must be because of her side of the story and doesn't know any of how I feel. She doesn't know how much our sex life sucks and how that I feel anxious to ever initiate sex because I am sick and tired of being rejected. How my wife puts out zero effort and how that is destroying my self esteem. The neighbor doesn't know what I have gone through with all the issues with my son and how hurt I am that he lives with his mom now and never wants to come see me. My son and I had a very tight relationship and now he rarely wants to see me. The neighbor doesn't know that I had a two weeks from hell at work and then I come home after a long day and do more than my fair share of cooking, cleaning, and honey dos. I do these things because I know my wife is stressed with working at home and all the Covid crap. I don't ask for help because it is not in my nature but it did frustrate me to see her and my teenage step daughter sitting on the couch doing nothing while I work my butt off at home. Not even receiving a thank you. 

I get it, I am not the best communicator but for a spouse to bash me or talk about me behind my back to friends and family can destroy any trust or closeness a couple may have. It makes me now NOT want to share anything thing with my wife because I can't trust her to keep it between us. 

I try to be a good husband and doing a majority of the work around the house because I guess all good advice articles tell us that good husbands are supposed to do these things. Wives should appreciate these things and it is supposed to help with their sex life. Well I guess all those articles are BS because all I feel like is a doormat and a maid. 

Am I wrong to believe that we should value our spouses more than to gossip about them like a tabloid?


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

OKTex said:


> A little back ground.
> 
> Fast forward to today


Sorry to hear about it


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

No you are not wrong. I believe that personal issues between a husband and wife should remain personal except maybe in a counselling context when issues are being worked on and its all confidential. It sounds as if you may both benefit from some MC where these issues and others can be talked though and worked on. Right now things seem very unhappy.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was married for a very long time and I never shared personal things about my husband, or my marriage, with friends. That wasn’t anyone else’s business. So you’re not the only one who feels that was inappropriate.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Gossiping is also an invasion of privacy. 
Problem one: only one person has privacy rights.
Problem two: only one person has decompression from work time.
Problem three: only one person has sexual freedom.
Are you starting to see the pattern here. You have no rights in the relationship. You don't even have the right of reasonable protest.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

It doesn't matter what we think, since there is no objective answer to the question. Neither of you are right or wrong. Some people need an "airing of the grievances" to trusted family and friends. Others, like you, find it offensive.

You and your wife do not agree on what should remain private within a marriage. You two will have to hammer out some sort of mutually agreed upon compromise.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Cletus said:


> It doesn't matter what we think, since there is no objective answer to the question. Neither of you are right or wrong. Some people need an "airing of the grievances" to trusted family and friends. Others, like you, find it offensive.
> 
> You and your wife do not agree on what should remain private within a marriage. You two will have to hammer out some sort of mutually agreed upon compromise.



Yup. I vent to my best friend about things at times because I need to get things off my chest. I don’t go into all the gory details, but sometimes I just need to air it out and be done with it. My BFF doesn’t hate my husband because of it and she wants us to succeed as a couple. It also depends on how approachable my husband is to talk about the subject at hand. I have to approach him in the exact right way, at the exact right time to get a decent conversation. Sometimes it’s easier to just say to my BFF, “Ya know what, J left his crap all over the place last night again and I’m really tired of cleaning up after him!” And then let it go.


Are you approachable to discuss things? Are you open to working towards a common goal? Is your wife able to vent to you about frustrations without it turning into a fight? And vice versa?


As far as an invasion of privacy, I don’t think I’d like knowing anyone listened to a conversation I had with a friend. I probably wouldn’t necessarily care about the content of the discussion, so much as a weird feeling I’d get of being watched.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

She knows where the camera is. She was likely a party to it's purchase. He was more than embarrassed by her conversation. She has the right to bash him at the coffee shop, at the grocery store, in the newspaper if she wants. But he is a violator for listening??? 
OP is in trouble for not sleeping with her.
OP is in trouble for going to work.
OP is in trouble for having feelings.
Sure he has no need to listen to the doorbell, but he does need at least one non negotiable, unalterable term. He is about 3 days from walking away to get it. 
Her right to out him to the neighborhood is kind of tiny here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Invite your neighbor's husband over and loudly discuss how your wife treats you and then accuse her of violating your privacy should she protest. You can arrange this beforehand so the husband doesn't sit there squirming in his tighty whities. Sometimes a person needs a different perspective.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Privacy is closing the door when you go to the bathroom.

Secrecy is doing or saying things that you don't want someone else to find out about.

She wants secrecy....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OKTex said:


> A little back ground. We have been married for 10 years. This is a second marriage for both of us. Both of our first marriages ended due to our spouse's cheating. I have a son from previous marriage and she has a daughter from previous marriage and we both have a daughter together.
> 
> Fast forward to today as I am writing this. We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch. She tells me how that I get to go to work everyday and be around coworkers while she works from home and has to deal with the kids all day. It frustrated me because I have had a work week from hell the last two weeks because there are two coworkers that have been out with covid and I have had to do the job of 3 people. I am in the middle 40's and already hate my job and I rarely talk about work at home because I want to decompress from the day. Perhaps I should have been more sympathetic to her at the time but I was so mad and frustrated because rarely does anybody ever care about how I feel in my house and how that my feelings about our sex life falls on deaf ears. I responded to her by saying "I don't know what to say right now".
> 
> ...


So you have two issues. 

One is sex - Your problem is how YOU think about it, and how the differs quite a lot from how she does. You need to change particularly how you present your need for it from, I need to do this to feel good, to I need to do this so I can feel close to you. If you make it as a reward or like an after dinner drink it changes the whole dynamic. If you change it to intimacy and closeness (and you get your wife to understand and appreciate that) then her motives and reaction will change as well. The bottom line is you need to start talking about this, but not in (not enough, too much) but I a attached or detached manner. I want to do this because it makes me feel close to you. It makes the quality of my life better. Being with you wife like that makes my whole emotional well being better. We haven't done it in a while and I don't feel as close to you because of it.

But that comes with responsibility. Sounds like you are doing things around the house which is good, what are you doing for her emotional stress. How about stopping and picking up a coffee for her or something like that. Or just talking to her about how much you appreciate how had she works. Stuff like that. You should also be flirty and pursue her emotionally.

The stronger her emotional connect to her is the more sex you are going to have, at least that is the case with most women. 

That also goes with talking to the neighbor. You have to tell her unemotionally that you feel betrayed. I wouldn't push it though if she doesn't get it, detach. Sometimes the best way to push is to disappear for a while. Reacting coldly always works better then being angry, especially if anger is your goto.

I mean the response may need to be. Look, you should understand that I feel very detached from you. You reject me when I try to do something that makes me feel close and loved by you, then you go and complain about me to someone else and betray or marriage. Explain to me how you think I should feel about this. Then leave for the night, and don't talk to her for a while. 

From now on don't go sleep in the other room. Leave the next day in the morning without saying goodbye. Sometimes it's better not to be so attached.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It sounds like your wife is super lonely and in need to emotional connection. I share a lot with my best friends, I would feel really sad if I wasnt able to. 

I was married to a man that would punish me by sleeping in the spare room. It hurt so bad and I felt so lonely. 

Your mad because no one cares about you, but you have to share your feelings and talk to your wire about what your going through so she can understand. No one is a mind reader. 

Personally I don’t think what your wife did was that bad.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Yeah SHE invaded YOUR privacy by discussing private issues with others. She has no leg to have the high moral ground on this AT ALL.

You both need to stop the sniping and sit and have a SERIOUS conversation about your marriage and your boundaries. You SHOULD discuss your work -- she has NO idea what you are going through -- how can she be supportive if she has no idea what you are going through?
YOU should be asking her about HER day also -- how can you support HER if you have no idea what she's going through?

You both need to understand that sex is SUPER important for the MARRIAGE -- it helps you both stay emotionally connected. Without it, that emotional separation is just going to increase, and at some point, what do you have? A room mate, not a partner. Does she want a room mate or a partner in life?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Detachment is the natural consequence of trust violation. 
Detachment is the natural consequence of withdrawal of affection.
Detachment is the natural consequence of Detachment.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

First, I commend you on your efforts toward being a good husband.

Second, the articles you've read are neither right nor wrong. They advise men on how to be good husbands, but you have to know how to take everything in context. None of them were designed to make doormats of men. If you feel like one, then it's your own doing, unfortunately. Marriage is a negotiation and a process. If you feel taken advantage of, then it means you're doing too much and she's not holding up her end of things.

Third, you are all over the place. Again a context issue with you. You're going to have to learn to compartmentalize, which is understood to be a natural male mechanism that you seem to be lacking. If the two of you were to start marriage counseling, you'd be there forever. You should begin individual counseling just for you to sort yourself out.

You should also read this book:
*No More Mr. Nice Guy*
_" A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex, and Life"_

From this book, you will discover who you are and who you should be as a man and a husband.

Fourth,


OKTex said:


> I believe that issues between husband and wife are not the business of anybody other than husband and wife


I agree with you, but that's not your wife's philosophy. The two of you have to learn how to get on the same page, and stop expecting her to read your mind. And I really don't think you handled it very well. You didn't appreciate her response, but her response was in accordance with the way you addressed the subject with her. So even though you expected her to respond with consideration for your feelings, you basically got what you asked for. That highlights the importance of proper communication. You have read up on how to be a good husband, take the time now to learn how to effectively communicate with your wife. There are *millions of articles* on the internet to guide you. Make it a project you and she can do together. If properly approached, it can make your marriage stronger. And this article is great for learning *how to complain* to your wife.

So, I imagine that, like most people, you came here expecting us to agree with what you say about your wife and didn't expect to hear that you also were wrong in the scenario. I bet you really didn't expect to be told you need to work on yourself. Sorry about that, but nobody's perfect and each party in a relationship both contribute to the state of the relationship.

So here are your tasks itemized for the sake of organization?
1. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy
2, Learn better communications skills
3. Learn how to complain in your marriage
4. Individual counseling ongoing


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I don’t know much about the privacy issue. Aren’t we all guilty of spilling our guts about our “private” relationships on TAM? What’s really that much different?


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## OKTex (Dec 16, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> I don’t know much about the privacy issue. Aren’t we all guilty of spilling our guts about our “private” relationships on TAM? What’s really that much different?


I personally don't know anybody on this page.....unlike my spouse bashing me to my next door neighbor.


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

I went through exactly what you describe OP and as others have said you have to open the lines of communication and come to a mutual understanding instead of being passive aggressive. I recommend you don't detach like 180 because you need to open up to her.

Your wife sounds unhappy just as you are so try to figure that out. Maybe she wants a little help at home or spend more time with you. Then you deal with the expectations of privacy and sex.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Stop doing more than your share of housework. It's not a good trend to start, especially since you are overly stressed with work already and she hangs out on the couch and just watches you do more than your fair share.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

OKTex said:


> I personally don't know anybody on this page.....unlike my spouse bashing me to my next door neighbor.


I totally understand what you are saying. My point was that often spouses don’t know that spouses are talking about them. You caught it on the ring. Others never know, possibly a lot of spouses of TAMers. People need a way to release, or else they unleash on their spouses, usually not in a healthy way.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

RebuildingMe said:


> I don’t know much about the privacy issue. Aren’t we all guilty of spilling our guts about our “private” relationships on TAM? What’s really that much different?


Talking to a neighbor who knows your spouse and is in your social circle is completly different than an anonymous board.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

re16 said:


> Talking to a neighbor who knows your spouse and is in your social circle is completly different than an anonymous board.


And?

My wife's next door neighbor is also her best friend. If you can't tell your best friend about the important events in your life, including your spouse, why have one? My neighbor knows things about me that I would just as soon she not know, but they are true and my wife needed a shoulder when they happened. It helps keep me humble. The facade of spousal perfection doesn't really aid anyone.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hey, @OKTex ... what happened to your privacy when your wife was blabbing to her buddies? Did she ask you if it's okay to tell others about your private life?

You really need to read these links today... *No More Mr Nice Guy*

It's time to take control of your life ... *Learn when to say yes and when to say no to your spouse to make the most of your marriage.*

Best


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Cletus said:


> And?
> 
> My wife's next door neighbor is also her best friend. If you can't tell your best friend about the important events in your life, including your spouse, why have one? My neighbor knows things about me that I would just as soon she not know, but they are true and my wife needed a shoulder when they happened. It helps keep me humble. The facade of spousal perfection doesn't really aid anyone.


Spousal perfection? It is ok to not want your spouse to talk **** about you to a neighbor.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

OKTex said:


> A little back ground. We have been married for 10 years. This is a second marriage for both of us. Both of our first marriages ended due to our spouse's cheating. I have a son from previous marriage and she has a daughter from previous marriage and we both have a daughter together.
> 
> Fast forward to today as I am writing this. We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch. She tells me how that I get to go to work everyday and be around coworkers while she works from home and has to deal with the kids all day. It frustrated me because I have had a work week from hell the last two weeks because there are two coworkers that have been out with covid and I have had to do the job of 3 people. I am in the middle 40's and already hate my job and I rarely talk about work at home because I want to decompress from the day. Perhaps I should have been more sympathetic to her at the time but I was so mad and frustrated because rarely does anybody ever care about how I feel in my house and how that my feelings about our sex life falls on deaf ears. I responded to her by saying "I don't know what to say right now".
> 
> ...


Just stay on point. Don't let her deflect with the invasion thing. If anything....that is a separate issue for another time. 
Stay on point about her sharing private details of your intimate life with others.....an INVASION OF YOUR PRIVACY. 
Stick to this point and don't let it go and do not let her deflect you with red hearings. 

I agree with you and feel the same. I'd be furious if my wife was sharing my personal life as her gossip.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

The thing is she should be talking to HIM if she has complaints instead of bad-mouthing him to the neighbor.
How could he POSSIBLY improve anything about her complaints if HE doesn't know about them? The neighbor can't solve anything about the issue.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> The thing is she should be talking to HIM if she has complaints instead of bad-mouthing him to the neighbor.
> How could he POSSIBLY improve anything about her complaints if HE doesn't know about them? The neighbor can't solve anything about the issue.


My perception of spouses that do this is that they feed of the attention of good gossip, and the story is always one-sided, which is why it is said when the other spouse is not around, because the spouse being talked about would tell a different story.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

re16 said:


> Spousal perfection? It is ok to not want your spouse to talk **** about you to a neighbor.


Well. Seems there's more than one opinion on this. Who could have predicted that? 

I don't have a problem with it. Not everyone does. It is not a universal truth nor a marital mandate.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

If we assume the next door neighbor is actually a close friend, I think there's a different, not-so-bad context here in which the wife is "confiding" about issues in her marriage and looking for either validation (which in this case would seem a bad thing, because it's validation for what appears to be lack of empathy) or advice or just a sympathetic ear. 

Another way of looking at it. If that neighbor had been male, we'd be all over it, right? How totally inappropriate to be discussing your sex life issues with a friend of the opposite sex? We'd be saying that would be OK with another member of the same sex. So that's what's happening here, but it's not OK?

Clearly there's a need for the husband to have someone to talk to about his issues, other than his wife, because she's simply not that person. She's not showing empathy. But then, neither is he.

I think it's time for conversations not yet had, about privacy, boundaries, and goals/dreams. Where we are today- is this really what we thought would be OK 10 years ago? What happened? Forget the crap about "life gets in the way." So much is attitude and little things said and not said that often take more work not doing than to do. Ask where you want to be two years from now. If either thinks feeling like this is OK, and the other does not, then there are decisions to be made, rather than just letting the ball of poop get bigger and bigger as it rolls along.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I don't tell what my husband's shortcomings are to anyone. I wouldn't like him complaining about me to his friends.

What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. What happens at home stays at home, unless there's some kind of abuse going on. 

I feel women tell their friends about their husbands, but I don't think men do the same with their friends. 

I really hate it when I hear women complaining about their husbands. What am I supposed to do? Or say? I politely walk away.


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## OKTex (Dec 16, 2020)

Good stuff guys.......some of it might be good advice and some might be bad advice. Some of it a little condescending but I appreciate ALL the responses.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OKTex said:


> Good stuff guys.......some of it might be good advice and some might be bad advice. Some of it a little condescending but I appreciate ALL the responses.


Before assuming something is condescending, consider that, for some of us, the context is that this is stuff we've been through, or are presently working on.


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## OKTex (Dec 16, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Before assuming something is condescending, consider that, for some of us, the context is that this is stuff we've been through, or are presently working on.


I didn't assume some comments were condescending, some of the actually were and irrelevant to the matter at hand. Tone is hard to pick up via text, I admit that. But sometimes good intentions are overshadowed by condescending tone. Again, thank you all for the responses. BTW, I wasn't referring to your comments as being condescending.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

OKTex said:


> I try to be a good husband and doing a majority of the work around the house because I guess all good advice articles tell us that good husbands are supposed to do...


Red flag! Don’t worry about being “good”. You do work because it needs to be done; not to get invisible covert contract brownie points that only you’re aware of.

I have a lot of coworkers I have seen destroyed by working at home with kids. It’s a real thing.

My guess would be the issues in your relationship are bleeding over into the bedroom.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> I totally understand what you are saying. My point was that often spouses don’t know that spouses are talking about them. You caught it on the ring. Others never know, possibly a lot of spouses of TAMers. People need a way to release, or else they unleash on their spouses, usually not in a healthy way.


Personal things should be talked about between the couple and not told to friends, neighbours or anyone else. I see it as very disrespectful.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> And?
> 
> My wife's next door neighbor is also her best friend. If you can't tell your best friend about the important events in your life, including your spouse, why have one? My neighbor knows things about me that I would just as soon she not know, but they are true and my wife needed a shoulder when they happened. It helps keep me humble. The facade of spousal perfection doesn't really aid anyone.


I have some lovely friends but I never moan and grumble about my husband to them nor talk about personal issues between us to them. Sometimes we have to keep our mouths shut. Our spouse should be our best friend anyway.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

SO a few years back, my wife went to a "girls" weekend to a lake house one of the women had.
She told me they were all *****ing about their husbands -- basically EVERYTHING they did was awful.
My wife just sat there and said nothing. One of the women asked her why she isn't saying anything, and she said that she really had nothing to complain about (other than I tend to leave cabinets open!). She of course COULD have said things (nobody is perfect), but she didn't join in. Like me, she believes whatever the issues are, it's between us and ONLY us.

The woman said "That's why you have the marriage YOU do, and why WE have the marriages that WE do".


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I have some lovely friends but I never moan and grumble about my husband to them nor talk about personal issues between us to them. Sometimes we have to keep our mouths shut. Our spouse should be our best friend anyway.


You may not be the best example though; you've been pretty clear you have little to moan and groan about, w/regards your husband. Which, of course, is a good thing! Just saying that there could be sensitive topics that, carefully broached to a good friend, could be a legit & useful conversation.

Long way of saying, I wouldn't want to make too many assumptions about my wife or consider it a severe violation of privacy if she were to have a conversation about our sex issues with a woman friend of hers. In fact, I would invite it, because she clearly is in need of hearing things from someone other than myself.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The obvious irony here is that she is telling you that you are invading her privacy while she is being incredibly un-private about your marriage.

Seemingly it would be pretty easy to point that out to her. "Yes, honey, I agree we should have more privacy. As in, let's keep our business within these walls and not for neighborly gossip"


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Personal things should be talked about between the couple and not told to friends, neighbours or anyone else. I see it as very disrespectful.


Good for you. No doubt you'll make several dozen posts in the near future ensuring that we all agree to see it your way.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Personal things should be talked about between the couple and not told to friends, neighbours or anyone else. I see it as very disrespectful.


I disagree. Sometimes I need the opinion or want to vent or bounce something off of my good friend or one of my brothers. There’s nothing wrong with that, but what do I know? Marriage should be an extension of oneself. If I was told that I had to and could only open up to my wife and no one else, she wouldn’t be my wife. Oh wait, maybe that’s why I’m divorced x2?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

OKTex said:


> I didn't assume some comments were condescending, some of the actually were and irrelevant to the matter at hand. Tone is hard to pick up via text, I admit that. But sometimes good intentions are overshadowed by condescending tone. Again, thank you all for the responses. BTW, I wasn't referring to your comments as being condescending.


Hope you didn't find my reply condescending because it wasn't meant to be. I thought you might not like everything I said but didn't expect you would find it patronizing. I'm asking because I didn't find any of the responses to be condescending so I wonder if maybe you were referring only to mine since I pointed out some of your own imperfections.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My opinion:
There’s probably less than 1% of peoooe out there that would enjoy, be good at, or have the self discipline to be a good stay at home parent. You have a stressful job and you have to be there At such and such time. She has no set schedule. You’re coming home and doing cleaning and cooking? Then why do you have a stay at home wife?
For this to work and you not be resentful, she’d have to take in the household duties as her job.... she likely doesn’t. She’s bored, she’s gotten lazy, she’s not happy with herself, then YOU come home and you’re stressed out and getting resentful about the fact that nothing is done and feel everything is on you. Not fair.

she needs to get a job and you can hire a maid and you can have dates and eat out and ENJOY one another: Doesn’t sound like your relationship is all that enjoyable now For either of you.

you really need to change things up or you’ll be divorced soon.

not enough sex? Definitely could be a laziness (no exercise = no sex drive a lot of times) issue. It could be a resentment issue. It could be a lack of romantic connection issue.

was your sex life with her ever good? How long has it been bad?
why does she say she rejects you?

lots of answers needed to help advise you to fix this. Both if you are getting bitter.

talking to the neighbor— wrong but it happens. Not a huge deal.
Her saying you’re punishing her by sleeping on the sofa? Hey, that’s a GOOD thing! If she wants you sleeping in the bed with her, she has some feelings for you.

Figure it out. Remember, you LOVE one another! Figure it out and change things. Change your end, force her to change hers. Clearly her stay at home mom status isn’t doing it for you. Have her go back to work. You’re working. She can too.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> I totally understand what you are saying. My point was that often spouses don’t know that spouses are talking about them. You caught it on the ring. Others never know, possibly a lot of spouses of TAMers. People need a way to release, or else they unleash on their spouses, usually not in a healthy way.


This is a reasonable answer.
Sometimes reasonable is not kind.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

None of us like to be reminded how horrible we are. 
Horrible, or thought horrible.
Thoughts might have probable cause.


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## OKTex (Dec 16, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> My opinion:
> There’s probably less than 1% of peoooe out there that would enjoy, be good at, or have the self discipline to be a good stay at home parent. You have a stressful job and you have to be there At such and such time. She has no set schedule. You’re coming home and doing cleaning and cooking? Then why do you have a stay at home wife?
> For this to work and you not be resentful, she’d have to take in the household duties as her job.... she likely doesn’t. She’s bored, she’s gotten lazy, she’s not happy with herself, then YOU come home and you’re stressed out and getting resentful about the fact that nothing is done and feel everything is on you. Not fair.
> 
> ...


I never said she was a stay at home mom. Perhaps I should explain that she has a job but has been working at home due to covid.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sometimes you just need to vent to a good friend. My close friends vent about their husbands all the time, but to me the issue is whether you give a complete picture.

One of my friends is aggravated by her hb's lack of ambition, but she also shares his many good qualities. He treats her well, will run to the store in the middle of the night for her, picks her family up at the airport, does his share at home, sat with her dad when he broke his hip and ultimately passed away....you get the picture. I've known them a long time and i know him, so its not like I just get the *****ing.

So not only does she feel better because she's less aggravated after venting (which is good for him because she doesn't take all of that home), I can remind her of his many good qualities. Because i have a complete picture i can give good advice and I'm a friend of their marriage.

So to me venting to the neighbor who is also her friend might not be such a horrible thing, assuming the neighbor is a friend of your marriage and has a complete picture of your dynamic.

As for the sex, if you don’t have the sex life you want by all means address that, but throwing a fit and sleeping in the guest room is not going to get you there. If a solution exists that ain't it.

And be careful with the comparisons of who has it worse, because people's reality is their reality. Your wife is struggling working from home and I get that....many people are struggling and blowing that off because you had a bad week is ****ty. Of course your reality is also yours and you feel how you feel about your job, but the assumption that yoir situation sucks worse and your wife has nothing to complain about and owes you sex, which is what I got from you, is unhelpful at best.

Have you tried talking to your wife about your work struggles and listening to her reality? A little communication and empathy goes a long way. Apologies if you've addressed this and I've missed it.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> So not only does she feel better because she's less aggravated after venting (which is good for him because she doesn't take all of that home),* I can remind her of his many good qualities. Because i have a complete picture i can give good advice and I'm a friend of their marriage.*


KEY! KEY!

I do wonder about how common or rare your type of behavior or input is in these types of discussions. They're usually presented as *****-fests.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> KEY! KEY!
> 
> I do wonder about how common or rare your type of behavior or input is in these types of discussions. They're usually presented as ***-fests.



Good question. I would think that a friend/neighbor would know OP and have some idea of who he is.

Since OP listened to the conversation I'd be interested to know the neighbor's response. If the neighbor took the attitude of basically "**** that asshole" that's much different then a measured response.

I advised a friend over a number of conversations when she had marital issues and found out later that her hb had been bugging her calls so he heard everything. 

That's ok though because while he certainly has issues i know him....I like him and think he's a good guy for her. I'm fine with him listening to everything I said because I supported their marriage and today they are doing well. I'm sure listening to my responses to her complaints made him feel better about the venting.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Good question. I would think that a friend/neighbor would know OP and have some idea of who he is.
> 
> Since OP listened to the conversation I'd be interested to know the neighbor's response. If the neighbor took the attitude of basically "**** that asshole" that's much different then a measured response.
> 
> ...


I suspect that your approach is rare and here's why. You have to know the husband in order to be able to be a friend of the marriage.

My parents and in-laws are long-time friends, moms were college students together, so all four know each other, so they would be ideally suited to engage in your process. How common is that though? Lots of these female friendships are just that, the women only, the husbands are known as supporting players in the life of the wife, the friend either has superficial interactions or relies on the wife's version of how she describes her husband. Same of course for male friendships, the wives may not be known independently by the husband's friends.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Maybe she vented to a friend because she tried to open up to you about why she didn’t want sex and her feelings didn’t matter - you shut down by walking off and slept in another room. She was giving you an insight into her difficult week, but you had a hard week and you’re the better person because you don’t want to talk about it? Really look back at what actually took place here.

She is probably exhausted from being home and dealing with that all week and probably feels guilty too because you’re out working. And she expressed that frustration to you, the man she loves.

And then you came here to vent on a public forum. Please try to see it from her perspective too, I would be really sad if I knocked back sex because I was absolutely exhausted and under stress and my husband stormed off in anger. How is she to know you have work stress - communicate with her, open up.

she would probably love to have a heart to heart and hear your frustrations, take care.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Luckylucky said:


> Maybe she vented to a friend because she tried to open up to you about why she didn’t want sex and her feelings didn’t matter - you shut down by walking off and slept in another room. She was giving you an insight into her difficult week, but you had a hard week and you’re the better person because you don’t want to talk about it? Really look back at what actually took place here.
> 
> She is probably exhausted from being home and dealing with that all week and probably feels guilty too because you’re out working. And she expressed that frustration to you, the man she loves.
> 
> ...


Or she really doesn't. If she didn't go stay with him in the guest bedroom she wasn't THAT concerned.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Or she really doesn't. If she didn't go stay with him in the guest bedroom she wasn't THAT concerned.


I wouldn't have followed a tantrum.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wouldn't have followed a tantrum.


This. I didn't cater to tantrums when my toddler son threw them. And I damn sure wouldn't cater to one if my partner threw one. He wants to storm off to sleep on the couch, that's on him. 

He wants to have a rational adult conversation about the state of our relationship? I'm all there for that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wouldn't have followed a tantrum.


My point being, we are hearing only one side of description of said tantrum.

Ask three persons what color is the sky on a sunny day and you may very well get three different answers. 

Tantrum could be anywhere between "ok fine, I'll sleep on the couch in a bit snarky or maybe just a regular tone voice to...., yes, a complete asinine response.

The W will guaranteed take it in a way she wants to hear it, however it was said. 

Just sayin', there's two sides here. And we know it revolves around no sex for you as her objective anyway. 

Which she gets her way, either way, the age old story.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

this is the "Tantrum"


OKTex said:


> We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> this is the "Tantrum"


See?

Thanks for reminding all. He certainly didn't threaten to burn the house down and add he's going out to find three hookers to have a hotel room orgy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@lifeistooshort

@Rowan

See the above couple posts, then below....

Who doesn't think that if each had set their perceived slights against each other down for thirty minutes, and they each enjoyed the others physical closeness, a bit of intimacy and sexual romp together that it would have made for a little easier talking for a bit?

The goal or expectation isn't to solve all the issues at once but add a little grease to the skids.

The W would have had to agree to sex, first.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> See?
> 
> Thanks for reminding all. He certainly didn't threaten to burn the house down and add he's going out to find three hookers to have a hotel room orgy.


Oh there are varying levels of tantrums for sure. My point was that IF there is a solution to his unhappiness with the sex stomping off to the couch will at worst make it worse (because no woman ever got turned in by a fit) and at best might get her to follow him with some shut the hell up sex, at which point he'll be back here complaining that he's getting pity/shut the hell up sex.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Cletus said:


> And?
> 
> My wife's next door neighbor is also her best friend. If you can't tell your best friend about the important events in your life, including your spouse, why have one? My neighbor knows things about me that I would just as soon she not know, but they are true and my wife needed a shoulder when they happened. It helps keep me humble. The facade of spousal perfection doesn't really aid anyone.


I'm taking that this wife is talking about the sex life of her and her husband. 

Unless she has gotten his ok that she can share intimate details about their sex life then I'd say many mature, rational people would consider that a violation and a betrayal. 

You are blurring the line between just talking/chatting with friends and friends knowing things about YOU and sharing intimate details of the sex lives of a married couple when that married partner doesn't want this outsider included on their intimate details. 

There are boundaries and "I talk with my friends" isn't a get out of jail free for all to share any and every private intimate detail about a couple married life and their sex life.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mr. Nail said:


> Gossiping is also an invasion of privacy.
> Problem one: only one person has privacy rights.
> Problem two: only one person has decompression from work time.
> Problem three: only one person has sexual freedom.
> Are you starting to see the pattern here. You have no rights in the relationship. You don't even have the right of reasonable protest.


THIS is exactly right!!!!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Oh there are varying levels of tantrums for sure. My point was that IF there is a solution to his unhappiness with the sex stomping off to the couch will at worst make it worse (because no woman ever got turned in by a fit) and at best might get her to follow him with some shut the hell up sex, at which point he'll be back here complaining that he's getting pity/shut the hell up sex.


No where did I see the words stomped off.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

OKTex said:


> Good stuff guys.......some of it might be good advice and some might be bad advice. Some of it a little condescending but I appreciate ALL the responses.


I'm sorry if you mentioned this already but how personal, intimate was the info she was sharing?

I mean was she saying "my husband and I had an argument and things are tense with us now" and just venting or was she actually sharing the details of your sex life and talking about what you do say to each other in private....etc.?

If she is revealing private, intimate, sex related stuff then I'd definitely say she is out of bounds.

Have you two ever actually talked about what you are and are not ok with each other sharing with outsiders....what things stay private and intimate between you two only and what types of subjects are ok to share with others

If not now is a good time for it. 
If you have if she breaking the boundaries of what was previously agreed upon by each of you?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Oh there are varying levels of tantrums for sure. My point was that IF there is a solution to his unhappiness with the sex stomping off to the couch will at worst make it worse (because no woman ever got turned in by a fit) and at best might get her to follow him with some shut the hell up sex, at which point he'll be back here complaining that he's getting pity/shut the hell up sex.


Or, with a little optimism, the sex may have opened up a bit more emotional exchange and perhaps a new path towards a better relationship. 

Doubtful he'd immediately start complaining about duty sex. First there has to be sex with at least some frequency. And we see THAT ain't happening. 

No interaction equals no chances to improve. 

Some interactions create at least some chances to improve.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

From my own personal experience the best results come from:

No expectations of sex, expecting is bad. Do whatever you need to do in order to get your mind wrapped around this.

Once you have no expectations there is also no immediate disappointment and no episodes like is described here. You’re a cool cucumber. If your partner doesn’t come to bed for whatever reason it’s no big deal. Tomorrow you’re doing your stuff, going to the gym, making plans and generally just doing you.

You’ve already told your partner one or more times you’re not happy with the frequency and they know this and the severity of it.

Anyway that has been working for me.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> From my own personal experience the best results come from:
> 
> No expectations of sex, expecting is bad. Do whatever you need to do in order to get your mind wrapped around this.
> 
> ...


And this is acceptable for temp, and one should always be keeping oneself up and have a self reliant life.

But unless you're actually ok with no sex on the horizon one has to take action, make the choice are you ok with being celibate or do you want a normal healthy married sex life won't tolerate anything else, and if she's the hold up, and you are being honest with yourself you've done your part then:

One has to be prepared to make the changes in YOUR life. You're responsible for you, and IT'S OK to have a sexual life, married or single.

To forever accept a W with ad nauseam excuses to forever not have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, her H, is NOT acceptable to a healthy sexual male.

Then one has to know he'll leave the controlling W. 

There's no other answer, barring real health issues.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Ragnar that is coming after a talk that it is not acceptable. If the situation continues without adequate resolution then further discussion and potentially action is needed up to and including walking away.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Ragnar that is coming after a talk that it is not acceptable. If the situation continues without adequate resolution then further discussion and potentially action is needed up to and including walking away.


Walking away would've already been my choice but I'm trying to look at are there options there for any saving grace.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I have a simple question. If OKtex’s wife thinks he is such a piece of crap as a husband, why would anyone think just talking with her will fix anything?

As for those that were against him sleeping in the other room. Maybe you should try to think what it feels like from a guys point of view to get rejected repeatedly. It’s hard to sleep with a wife that just rejected you for the lost count time only to have her snuggle up to you like it’s no big deal.

The only thing that got my wife to realize how messed up things really were was me telling her she could have a divorce when she wanted, just don’t cheat. That I was done trying to make the marriage work.

OKTex if you wait to long to talk this out and fix the relationship, you will start to resent wife. The resentment will turn into hate one day. Fix if you can or leave, better to leave then to hate your wife.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ABHale said:


> Maybe you should try to think what it feels like from a guys point of view to get rejected repeatedly.


I don’t have to think about what it feels like because I know what it feels like from experience. Also from experience I know that running off and pouting about it was counterproductive.

What was productive was communication about where things stood including a willingness for me to leave and also looking at myself and stopping behaviors that were unattractive.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Until we hear from @OKTex you two are just quoting the chicken and the egg story.

Which means you're both right at this point, without a little more info.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> My point being, we are hearing only one side of description of said tantrum.
> 
> Ask three persons what color is the sky on a sunny day and you may very well get three different answers.
> 
> ...


Do people come here and tell their story the way it actually happened? Did he get up and go upstairs to get away from her, or did he storm out of bed and stomp upstairs to show her his indignation? Did he end up sleeping on the couch as if by accident, or was sleeping on the couch intentional to show her his anger?

I feel the same as he does that spouses need to keep their personal and private lives between the two of them. But I'm reading more of this thread and wondering if the woman just needs to vent to somebody, Wondering also if she has tried to tell him some things since, based on his comment about people being condescending, maybe he doesn't like hearing things he needs to know. It may not be about sex, but women feel rejected at times too, you know, which is a turnoff for them.

Whether he told the story of the tantrum accurately or not, I feel certain it definitely wasn't his first time. Lots of guys throw tantrums when they can't get sex, or they get mean, or they become generally unpleasant. Also a turnoff for women. So the cycle repeats itself. The longer he's mad and making sure she knows it, the longer she doesn't want sex.

The awful truth is guys often don't know what their wife needs in order to get the sex they need. Somebody complained, as if to indict, that their wife wanted to snuggle after rejecting him for sex. Great jeepers, what a crime. Perhaps if there were more non-sexual intimate attention that she needs, she'd be up for sex more often.

These also are age old stories.

It's not just about sympathy for men who can't get all the sex they want and lambasting women for not putting out. I contend that more often than not, there are reasons wives don't want to have sex that are directly related to their husband's behavior. And not just his behavior but that, again, so many don't know the difference between their needs and their wife's needs. Even this guy, tried though he did (which is commendable, and I commended him) to learn how to be a good husband, he doesn't realize it involves more than internet articles telling men to wash the dishes and scrub the toilets. That stuff is great and helpful and dispels the notion that housework is woman's work. But that's just daily responsibilities. It's not what she needs emotionally and intimately to get her motor going.

So he can have all the tantrums he wants, and maybe he'll get some pity sex now and then (that he won't appreciate). But until he is willing to learn how to work his wife, he can work his fingers to the bone washing dishes and scrubbing toilets.....and having tantrums.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t have to think about what it feels like because I know what it feels like from experience. Also from experience I know that running off and pouting about it was counterproductive.
> 
> What was productive was communication about where things stood including a willingness for me to leave and also looking at myself and stopping behaviors that were unattractive.


Only if your wife is willing to talk about it. Doesn’t help a bit if the wife doesn’t give a crap. So gaining some space is needed at times, even if that means sleeping in another room for the night.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

StarFires said:


> Do people come here and tell their story the way it actually happened? Did he get up and go upstairs to get away from her, or did he storm out of bed and stomp upstairs to show her his indignation? Did he end up sleeping on the couch as if by accident, or was sleeping on the couch intentional to show her his anger?
> 
> I feel the same as he does that spouses need to keep their personal and private lives between the two of them. But I'm reading more of this thread and wondering if the woman just needs to vent to somebody, Wondering also if she has tried to tell him some things since, based on his comment about people being condescending, maybe he doesn't like hearing things he needs to know. It may not be about sex, but women feel rejected at times too, you know, which is a turnoff for them.
> 
> ...


Wrong post.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ABHale said:


> This is harsh. Let’s just attack someone coming here for help. His wife cheated on him several times and you are blaming him for her not wanting to have sex with him.


Where did you get that she cheated?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Do people come here and tell their story the way it actually happened? Did he get up and go upstairs to get away from her, or did he storm out of bed and stomp upstairs to show her his indignation? Did he end up sleeping on the couch as if by accident, or was sleeping on the couch intentional to show her his anger?
> 
> I feel the same as he does that spouses need to keep their personal and private lives between the two of them. But I'm reading more of this thread and wondering if the woman just needs to vent to somebody, Wondering also if she has tried to tell him some things since, based on his comment about people being condescending, maybe he doesn't like hearing things he needs to know. It may not be about sex, but women feel rejected at times too, you know, which is a turnoff for them.
> 
> ...


All reasonable options I believe as well.

Except for the working scrubbing toilets and chores towards building a false reason he can then have sex. 

That's something I've never, ever done even once in 36 yrs M.

I'll never think earning sex is an effective strategy, and it's strange and ludicrous that some folks think that works.

I can maintain my own home, will hire out if I think it needs extra cleaning, without asking for approval and without warning. 

If wife wants extra deep cleaning support, I'll say get some help and happy to pay but I don't play that game. And I truthfully have no issues when she wants the baseboards, floors, windows etc professionally cleaned.

I'll go fishing while my staff cleans. I don't expect her to shoulder it all.

She likes being able to direct the cleaners, that's her perk. My perk is I keep her focused on me, and her, enjoying more free time.

Now I do help in stuff if we're entertaining to a degree, cause that's something we like to do together. 

I do all the grilling, bbqs, keep indoor and outdoor things flushing, heating cooling, automotive upkeep split between what I like to do or hiring and watching maintenance and reno work because I'm an experienced carpenter and electrician in former life, and as the resident IT professional to keep all PCs and network peripherals operating. 

But she lives in a house I maintain because I've invited her into my life. Oh so many years ago.

And this works for us.

My foundation is I make it a point to have my life stable and nimble, and could recreate my same life anywhere almost instantaneously. 

Independence in my personal life is my freedom. Her being an important part of my life is thus always a plus for me because I choose her.

Not saying I'm perfect, most issues are mine when I do something I want to do that's a little risky, but she also knows I'm way over insured.

And I always keep a folder in two separate places with all our accounts, passwords, and written instructions if tragically something happens to me on a trip or just any accident. 

She's learned and accepted that telling me no, you can't do that isn't really something I'll go along with.

With that, the key is balance in all things. 

My point of view is she is here to make my life better. Conversely, too, she knows I want her to have a great life and I'll do anything I can to support what she wants to do.

Our grown boys are fully in the loop of what to do if something happens to me, each have a small portion of my life insurance assigned to them.

We have a multiple generation financial plan, that gives me freedom in my mind to free me up to not be overly concerned if doing some risky hobbies.

We've each had life threatening issues in our lives and fully understand one shouldn't live in daily fear of what ifs.

Neither of us believe in cheating or creating resentments to slowly build growing apart.

If I cheat I believe she'd truly kill me in my sleep.

If she were to cheat, she knows I'd the next day get her moved out and cut off all funds, support, and be dating the next day.

And I'd spend all the money i have pronto and do anything necessary to let her live her choice at her lonesome financial responsibilities. 
On the flipside, if I pass first I'd like her to remarry if that was her choice, but to still have a good life without me if that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Legally finds are set up to prevent her from blowing money on money grubbing suitors but the money is there to take fear out of the unknown for her.

She knows I'd defend her in all situations and take a bullet if needed, and she'd still be ok financially and emotionally. 

And I don't fear that if something happens to me she won't be able to keep on going.

This is all selfish on my part, takes the worries from day to day living from my stress level.

Whew. . Sorry long story.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Long story, maybe, but the bottom line is you sound like a man who knows who you are and has his stuff together, and your wife finds that attractive. Any woman would. Bravo.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If I cheat I believe she'd truly kill me in my sleep.


LOL Good girl.


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If she were to cheat, she knows I'd the next day get her moved out and cut off all funds, support, and be dating the next day.


Reasonable and understood.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Where did you get that she cheated?


Sorry I was thinking of another post. Thanks for pointing it out.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

StarFires said:


> The purpose for your grossly over-exaggerated assessment of my post as attacking someone is pretty obvious.
> 
> Show us where he said she cheated. I think you mixed this post up with another recent one. There's no such mention in his op or subsequent ones I read, so either I missed one or you're mistaken. More likely the latter or everyone would have spoken of it in their responses but no one has. Get a grip.


Not really. Just the wrong post about cheating and no sex at home.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I still think this post is harsh against OP.

My opinion is her almost always refusing him is worse them him spending one night in another room.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And this is acceptable for temp, and one should always be keeping oneself up and have a self reliant life.
> 
> But unless you're actually ok with no sex on the horizon one has to take action, make the choice are you ok with being celibate or do you want a normal healthy married sex life won't tolerate anything else, and if she's the hold up, and you are being honest with yourself you've done your part then:
> 
> ...


OR for a healthy sexual FEMALE...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ABHale said:


> Sorry I was thinking of another post. Thanks for pointing it out.


It is easy to get them mixed up 🙂


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

ABHale said:


> I still think this post is harsh against OP.
> 
> My opinion is her almost always refusing him is worse them him spending one night in another room.


Harsh doesn't make it an attack, and nothing justifies your reason for the exaggeration, but pettiness describes it perfectly. Elementary school kind of stuff.

Based on that response and this one, you still don't get what I was saying in my post because, I guess as a guy, the only thing that matters is he doesn't get the sex he wants.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> OR for a healthy sexual FEMALE...


Absolutely I agree👍👍🙂🙂🙂


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

StarFires said:


> Harsh doesn't make it an attack, and nothing justifies your reason for the exaggeration, but pettiness describes it perfectly. Elementary school kind of stuff.
> 
> Based on that response and this one, you still don't get what I was saying in my post because, I guess as a guy, the only thing that matters is he doesn't get the sex he wants.


I really don’t see the reason for it. If you think it is childish to need space then that is your opinion. But calling OP childish because he needed distance for a night is BS. It’s not about keeping score or I will get her back for not having sex with me, it’s about needing space.

Just like a wife doesn’t want sex sometimes, sometimes a husband needs space.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

ABHale said:


> I really don’t see the reason for it. If you think it is childish to need space then that is your opinion. But calling OP childish because he needed distance for a night is BS. It’s not about keeping score or I will get her back for not having sex with me, it’s about needing space.
> 
> Just like a wife doesn’t want sex sometimes, sometimes a husband needs space.


I won't even try to respond to this or any others from you because you don't understand anyway anything I say or you get it all mixed up like you keep doing. But just for the record, I didn't call the OP childish. Never said that once.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> this is the "Tantrum"


How is this a tantrum?

It could have been his wife that started the argument. All he said was that he was pissed and went up stairs after laying in bed for a little bit. Then decide to just sleep on the couch.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

StarFires said:


> Whether he told the story of the tantrum accurately or not, I feel certain it definitely wasn't his first time. Lots of guys throw tantrums when they can't get sex, or they get mean, or they become generally unpleasant. Also a turnoff for women. So the cycle repeats itself. The longer he's mad and making sure she knows it, the longer she doesn't want sex.


I stand by you call him childish and not believing the events happened the way he told them.


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## missus_ashleigh (Dec 18, 2020)

OKTex said:


> A little back ground. We have been married for 10 years. This is a second marriage for both of us. Both of our first marriages ended due to our spouse's cheating. I have a son from previous marriage and she has a daughter from previous marriage and we both have a daughter together.
> 
> Fast forward to today as I am writing this. We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch. She tells me how that I get to go to work everyday and be around coworkers while she works from home and has to deal with the kids all day. It frustrated me because I have had a work week from hell the last two weeks because there are two coworkers that have been out with covid and I have had to do the job of 3 people. I am in the middle 40's and already hate my job and I rarely talk about work at home because I want to decompress from the day. Perhaps I should have been more sympathetic to her at the time but I was so mad and frustrated because rarely does anybody ever care about how I feel in my house and how that my feelings about our sex life falls on deaf ears. I responded to her by saying "I don't know what to say right now".
> 
> ...


Being habitually rejected sexually, a deal-breaker.

Being made to feel like a maid, deal-breaker.

Not protecting the privacy of your kid, deal-breaker.

Bashing you to anyone, deal-breaker. People confide in their friends but there's a difference between confiding and pure bashing one's spouse.

Why do you stay in this marriage? She isn't improving the quality of your life in any way. In fact, she is toxic and borderline abusive.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

OKTex said:


> A little back ground. We have been married for 10 years. This is a second marriage for both of us. Both of our first marriages ended due to our spouse's cheating. I have a son from previous marriage and she has a daughter from previous marriage and we both have a daughter together.
> 
> Fast forward to today as I am writing this. We got into a fight last friday night when I initiated sex. It wasn't really a big fight at the time because all that was said was her telling me "don't be mad" and as I laid there rejected, I finally got out of bed and went upstairs to be by myself. I ended up sleeping on the couch that night. She tells me the next day she is upset and I punished her for sleeping on the couch. She tells me how that I get to go to work everyday and be around coworkers while she works from home and has to deal with the kids all day. It frustrated me because I have had a work week from hell the last two weeks because there are two coworkers that have been out with covid and I have had to do the job of 3 people. I am in the middle 40's and already hate my job and I rarely talk about work at home because I want to decompress from the day. Perhaps I should have been more sympathetic to her at the time but I was so mad and frustrated because rarely does anybody ever care about how I feel in my house and how that my feelings about our sex life falls on deaf ears. I responded to her by saying "I don't know what to say right now".
> 
> ...


From my experience men are generally more sensitive when it comes to being vented about than women are. I think most people vent to close friends/family about their spouse at some point. So clearly defined boundaries are important if the couple has differing opinions on what level of disclosure is OK. I do see men being more upset by it though. Unless the wife is venting about his penis being too large, then the husband has no problem with it.


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