# trickle truth...the whole trickle truth!



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

It was nothing! Then...
It was just a little flirting! Then...
It was just an EA! Then...
It was just once! Twice! Every third day for a year!
Whatever the script, we have all heard a version of this "truth". 

Here is my question...
Is knowing the truth important for reasons other than to satisfy our own curiousity/need to know? 

I, for one, am a need to know guy. My wife's first affair, I felt like I got the story I really needed. (Who knows if it was the whole truth, but it FELT like the whole truth and I am at peace with it) I have forgiven it and moved on. 

This time? It bothers me that there are some really big holes in her story. 

But in the end, I know it was an affair. I know it was a PA. I know it lasted for at least a year and a half. Is my R based not upon the idea of the affair itself? Is 10 times in the sack any worse than 9? Isn't it still the same rubber stamp: "Affair"? 

I have been working on this. I have been trying not to beat myself up over this since her final contact I can "prove" is now over a year ago. But our recovery is stalled (for those who have read any of my prior posts). And what I can't decide is why? Is my inability to let it go inhibiting my own recovery? Feeling like I need those holes to be filled? I feel as though I have mostly forgiven the affair itself. So why then should it even bother me about the holes in her story? 

Or maybe it's the feeling that since there are holes there...there must be lies, still. Why are there still lies? And if there are still lies, is it keeping me from reconciling? Or is it keeping HER from reconciling? 

Any of the WS out there that were able to hold some information back, only to find out that it was keeping them from reconciling? Were you able to fully reconcile with the lies still there? Did things get better without getting that truth out, or did you eventually tell? 

I guess I am grasping at the thin air.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Any of the WS out there that were able to hold some information back, only to find out that it was keeping them from reconciling? Were you able to fully reconcile with the lies still there? Did things get better without getting that truth out, or did you eventually tell?


Not a WS but I've been lurking infidelity forums for the last three years. I often read the waywards perspective. Many, tonbs of them stated they only could really let their guard down once all was there in the open. TT is not only damaging, preventing R from the BS side but from the wayward.

Secrets kill intimacy.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> This time? *It bothers me *that there are some really big holes in her story.
> 
> But in the end, I know it was an affair. I know it was a PA. I know it lasted for at least a year and a half. Is my R based not upon the idea of the affair itself? *Is 10 times in the sack any worse than 9? Isn't it still the same rubber stamp: "Affair"? *
> 
> ...


If 10 times is the same as nine, and the details make no difference, then why can't she just tell you the truth?

It makes a difference because of what Acabado said. Also, all he bolded parts above.

Marriage is a joining of two into one, sharing your lives. Do you consider lying and hiding the truth part of what a marriage should be? No? Well, that is why getting the truth is important.

Understood - you never know if you have the truth and I suspect that most betrayeds never get the ENTIRE truth. But like you said, you need enough so that at least it makes sense and you feel there are no big gaping holes in the story. Then you can forgive and move on. Is that not your wife's goal, also?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Here is my question...
> Is knowing the truth important for reasons other than to satisfy our own curiousity/need to know?



No. It is to simply know the truth. Are you (WS) lying to me (BS). Period. Cuz if you can't cop to what you've done then you could easily turn around and do it again.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*doc martin:* I had a five year PA. My wife had an 18 month EA. Who won?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

old timer said:


> *doc martin:* I had a five year PA. My wife had an 18 month EA. Who won?


Wait a second...is that a rhetorical question?!!.....


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

So if most of us never get the ENTIRE truth, how do we recover? I too engaged in a revenge affair (EA) but I just couldn't live with it. I had to get it out. All of it. She didn't want it, still says she doesn't "need" to know. Doesn't want to talk about it, hers or mine. Says we both made mistakes and need to move forward. 

Sometimes I think moving forward is best. And if she doesn't need to know, then I can respect that. Other times I think she says she doesn't need to know so I won't bring up her stuff. And it makes me wonder why? Her first affair, I never asked the same question twice. Tried not to beat her up about information that I was given or use it against her later. So the only reason I feel there is not full disclosure is what? The facts are worse than I can deal with? My imagination is pretty good! That she cannot face totally what she has done? And if its the latter, how can recovery ever occur?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Secrets kill intimacy.


This is a powerful statement. So very true. So far reaching into a relationship. 

Just one big secret can ruin a long marriage or a close friendship. That is how far reaching this statement is. That is how powerful this statement is.

How can you rebuild a relationship on lies. Lies are nothing. Figments of imagination. From both sides, anything can be rebuilt if there is truth and real regret and sorrow. If there are lies still there, it is impossible to rebuild. Because the trust is still missing. If there is no trust, there is no relationship. Secrets kill relationships.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Unless the WS comes out completely truthful, there is no way for the BS to get the full truth. TT happens in almost all the cases.
If you are lucky enough to have a better WS, they will end the TT soon!
Sorry mate, TT will hurt. And sorry that TT hurts any attempt at R.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Disclaimer: This is pocket philosophy.

We all have different perceptions of the world and thus lives in very different worlds. This is often the cause of wars.

Same goes for marriages. And the more secrecy between spouses, the more different the perception of the marriage will be, and the more turmoil there will be in the relationship, because you simply haven't got similar pictures of what is happening.

There may very well be differences in how much uncertainty we can handle. The less knowledge you have, the more uncertainty and insecurity. I think your wife should respect that and just tell the truth, if she doesn't; it's up to you to decide if you can live with that level of uncertainty.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> It was nothing! Then...
> It was just a little flirting! Then...
> It was just an EA! Then...
> It was just once! Twice! Every third day for a year!
> ...


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> It was nothing! Then...
> It was just a little flirting! Then...
> It was just an EA! Then...
> It was just once! Twice! Every third day for a year!
> ...


TT is killer and if you don't get the full story how do know what you are forgiving her for. Also this is the 2nd time she cheated I think the bigger question is why are you still in the relationship


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> So if most of us never get the ENTIRE truth, how do we recover? I too engaged in a revenge affair (EA) but I just couldn't live with it. I had to get it out. All of it. She didn't want it, still says she doesn't "need" to know. Doesn't want to talk about it, hers or mine. Says we both made mistakes and need to move forward.
> 
> Sometimes I think moving forward is best. And if she doesn't need to know, then I can respect that. Other times I think she says she doesn't need to know so I won't bring up her stuff. And it makes me wonder why? Her first affair, I never asked the same question twice. Tried not to beat her up about information that I was given or use it against her later. So the only reason I feel there is not full disclosure is what? The facts are worse than I can deal with? My imagination is pretty good! That she cannot face totally what she has done? And if its the latter, how can recovery ever occur?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she says she doesnt need to know because she doesnt want to tell you everything?

Or maybe she is just one of those that rugsweeps it and because she doesnt need to know she doesnt understand why you need to know.

My WH is a rug sweeper and I dont really need to know but then again I know alot...he lived with her and played house..what more is there to know in this case? 

Sometimes I think knowing all the details can hurt more, more triggers but I understand each persons personal reasons for needing or wanting to know.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Cpacan covered this better than I was about to. Here is my 2 cents. If you were to go into battle, would you not NEED to know were the minefield is, were the killsack is, were your best fields of fire are, were the blind spots are? Life is a battle everyday and what you don't know could get you killed. To have your partner not clue you in on were her head is at could very well get you hurt, and I do not mean a little boo boo.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

"It was nothing! Then...
It was just a little flirting! Then...
It was just an EA! Then...
It was just once! Twice! Every third day for a year!"


Trickle truth prevents healing because the BS is always waiting for the next shoe to drop. 


"I, for one, am a need to know guy. My wife's first affair, I felt like I got the story I really needed. (Who knows if it was the whole truth, but it FELT like the whole truth and I am at peace with it) I have forgiven it and moved on."


By you allowing your WW to rug sweep her last affair she never had to face the consequences of her actions. 


"This time?"


This is why there was a 2nd time WW did have to face the consequence of telling you the whole truth after the first affair.


"Is 10 times in the sack any worse than 9? Isn't it still the same rubber stamp: "Affair"?"


The BH that had a WW that had a ONS says thank god it was only a ONS. The BH that had a WW says thank god is was only for a month, then the BH that says it was only for a year, then the BH that says there was only one OM, then the BH that gets his WW knocked up by the OM. As you see no matter how bad the affair was to the BH it always could of been worse.

The BH that wants to recover will say thank god it was only one OC.

Pointless to rate how bad an affair was. 


"I have been trying not to beat myself up over this since her final contact I can "prove" is now over a year ago."


Has your WW been transparent so you can verify NC. Access to WW cell, phone bill, email, texts, all WW passwords?


"But our recovery is stalled (for those who have read any of my prior posts). And what I can't decide is why? Is my inability to let it go inhibiting my own recovery? Feeling like I need those holes to be filled? I feel as though I have mostly forgiven the affair itself. So why then should it even bother me about the holes in her story?"


Not having the whole truth from your WW leaves the BH unable to repair the trust the WW affair broke.


"Or maybe it's the feeling that since there are holes there...there must be lies, still. Why are there still lies? And if there are still lies, is it keeping me from reconciling? Or is it keeping HER from reconciling?" 


I am a BH that has been trickled truth for over 30 years. My WW hiding the truth has built a wall between us and hindered recovery.


"I guess I am grasping at the thin air."


No you are grasping for the truth.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Time to schedule a polygraph test.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

-he's just a friend
-we had sex once
-we had sex 7 times
-we had sex every day for the first two months
-we did it in his car
-we got hotel rooms
-we did it at his house
-we had sex last month
-we almost had sex three days ago
-we have seen each other at the gym but havent spoken
-we have seen each other at the gym but have spoken
-we emailed each other for a bit in april
-we emailed each other all through may
-we never talked about sex in our emails
-we talked explicity about sex in our emails

this was the progression i faced.
starting in march of this year, and ending in june of this year.
it has been a SEVERE hinderance to our reconciliation, because as another poster stated, im just waiting for the next brick to fall on my head "we actually did _____ ".
when i first found out in march, i dealt with it and actually put all my effort into making my marriage and my family work. it was one of the happiest times of my life.
for a month.
then i found out in april, it was still going on and how deep the rabbit hole REALLY went, and it RUINED that.
so i got up, dusted myself off, and kept plugging away. i got happy again, and still was giving 110%.
then i found out in june that it was STILL going on, as far as i know an EA at that point, and it RUINED that.
so, at this point i am really back to square one and having a hard time "dealing" with it at this point.
so yeah, trickle truth is a KILLER for sincere reconcilliation.
my wife is sure she wants this now.
me? i have serious doubts, whereas had i known the entire truth up front...i probably wouldnt.
its a killer.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Secrets kill intimacy.


Yes, I agree. and agree with a lot of things on this thread. It's funny how people who aren't in the same situation can't understand why you would want to know the details.

The devil is in the detail ....and so is the truth.

My fiance insisted that they were just friends. Yeah, just friends talking about our sex life (I found out when he let me see his text messages). I pointed out to him that long before I knew she existed, she could have cornered me at some activity and tell me everything he had said about me. 

this isn't far fetched. He met us both not just at a meetup activity, but of the same meetup group. I even found where she had signed up for the same meetup activity that I actually went to.

Labels can be useful but the details are needed to know whether the label fits the situation. No guy can call me a gf, make me go dutch and then go off and pay 100% for the outings that you have with another woman. If I hadn't snooped I would not have know these things. And how do I know how much he might have smirked and giggled knowing what he is getting away with: his "friend" is deserving of taxi fare while he can't even bothered waiting for the bus (that I am paying to use) at the end of the date...... yeah, it just doesn't work. And if you don't know that that's what's going, you can't speak to it. 

Some one else said that these discussions between WS and BS can create intimacy and support reconciliation. I agree with this. I want my partner to walk through the secret relationship and understand why it happened and what he plans to do to ensure that it doesn't happen again.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> So if most of us never get the ENTIRE truth, how do we recover? I too engaged in a revenge affair (EA) but I just couldn't live with it. I had to get it out. All of it. *She didn't want it, still says she doesn't "need" to know. Doesn't want to talk about it, hers or mine. Says we both made mistakes and need to move forward.*
> 
> Sometimes I think moving forward is best. And if she doesn't need to know, then I can respect that. Other times I think she says she doesn't need to know so I won't bring up her stuff. And it makes me wonder why? Her first affair, I never asked the same question twice. Tried not to beat her up about information that I was given or use it against her later. So the only reason I feel there is not full disclosure is what? The facts are worse than I can deal with? My imagination is pretty good! That she cannot face totally what she has done? And if its the latter, how can recovery ever occur?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And it will happen again. That's rugsweeping. Part of knowing every detail is in order to give the BS the ability to grieve. For all intents and purposes, and affair KILLS the marriage that was there before the affair is known. It's DOA, dead on affair. In order for R to happen, the BS needs to be able to do a couple things. First...grieve. Second gain the knowledge that an affair will never happen again. 

If the WS doesn't share details, that would be akin to getting a call from a hospital saying "Husband, your wife was brought to the hospital, she didn't make it, we've taken her body, embalmed it and buried it somewhere." but the hospital never giving you all the details. Could you imagine how impossible it would be to grieve for your spouse in that situation, it's unimaginable, but that's exactly what trickle truth does. Full disclosure is the first step to rebuilding trust and forgiveness. How can you forgive someone of something without knowing the details. "Honey, I did something wrong, I won't tell you what it is, but will you forgive me?" Uhhh no.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

I think the bigger issue is that continued TT is an indicator that a WS is NOT fully committed to the R, the BS or the relationship. 

TT is a clear indicator that they are still looking out first and foremost for themselves. They are more concerned about how the truth can affect them negatively than how it can affect you and the relationship positively. 

I think that OP situation with a second D-Day with new affair, as well as some of the subsequent posters that mention getting trickle truthed for years on end are all symptoms of a larger issue - lack of consequences for deceit. 

An initial affair is a HUGE act of deceit, but continuing to deceive is in many ways continuing the affair. And a BS who is continuing to carry secrets has already crossed marital boundaries and is much more likely to take the smaller step back into a full-on affair.

If you are getting TT and continued deceit, go nuclear. Move out, serve papers, have them move out etc. The WS must see that this behavior WILL END THE RELATIONSHIP. They must understand that the only way to preserve things is to bare their soul. In this type of a situation, it is up to us, the BS, to force them fully out of this fog. Or make the decision to walk away. 

But continuing to tolerate deceit lays the behavioral foundation for future betrayals. Do not tolerate secrets, lies or omissions.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

TT shows that the WS is refusing to be loyal to you and to trust you with the truth.

Think about that. How can the marriage exist if your SO is neither loyal nor trusting? 

You didn't cheat, they did. So why do they not trust you? You haven't betrayed them.

It's also about loyalty. Refusing to give up info is to entirely to protect the WS and the AP. the WS has more loyalty to the WS and the AP than to you.

Why would you commit yourself to a person who isn't loyal to you above all others including their self?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Do you need the whole truth to see if you want stay with them or leave and start a new life without the cheating spouse?

My wife just needed to know did I cheat and did I sleep with the OW. She didn't need the nitty gritty details. And to be honest if she got the details, there would have been no R at all. And I'm sure most of the ones who got all the details most likely opted out of their marriage.

yeah, yeah, some are going to say wait, wait, we stayed. Ok, how many others out there who got the details said FU and just left. I'm pretty sure most of them don't need to come on such forums because they've moved on with their lives and on to greener pastures.

Like Jack Nicholson said, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Be careful what you ask for, most of the time it's a ticking nuke bomb that's going to incinerate you.

Most of the time I feel that the BS needs to entire truth down to the last detail (and if it's as bad as they think it is) so they can say, yep I can bail because I'm not dealing with this crap. Or they can say, well it wasn't as bad as I thought and maybe there is a chance.

Yes the details should be offered so you can make the decision. My wife hasn't asked and I never offered her the details. But if she asks, I'll answer them. I guess she was more interested in R so she didn't need to know everything or else she probably would have changed her mind. Don't know and after 15 years I'm not about to ask her why she didn't need the details of my affair(s).


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I think most of those who don't want details are those who like to pretend nothing happened.

I don't wanna live on a lie.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

cpacan said:


> I think most of those who don't want details are those who like to pretend nothing happened.
> 
> I don't wanna live on a lie.


Agreed.

For me, having the details actually allowed me to heal faster. My brain was imagining so much crap and to hear WHAT happened made the mind movies go away - no more spectre of what MAY have happened.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

CH said:


> Do you need the whole truth to see if you want stay with them or leave and start a new life without the cheating spouse?
> 
> My wife just needed to know did I cheat and did I sleep with the OW. My wife hasn't asked and I never offered her the details. But if she asks, I'll answer them.



Some BS do some BS do not. This is why the BS gets to control the level of detail they hear by the questions that they ask.

Your BW did what was right for her.

There is no such thing as revealing too much truth about the WS affair. I have seen BH where they knew that their WW got knocked up by the OM and stayed to raise the OC as their own.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> No guy can call me a gf, make me go dutch and then go off and pay 100% for the outings that you have with another woman...........his "friend" is deserving of taxi fare while.....


.....I pay my own. Once even his! 


Oh my effing God! This has triggered me hugely! 
What a total wanker of a man and why do I (and you) even give him the time of day. Full frontal lobotomy is on the special board tomorrow...and you/me my dear are special! 

Please excuse my language.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Remains said:


> .....I pay my own. Once even his!
> 
> 
> Oh my effing God! This has triggered me hugely!
> ...


Remains, what's your situation?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

CH said:


> Do you need the whole truth to see if you want stay with them or leave and start a new life without the cheating spouse?
> 
> My wife just needed to know did I cheat and did I sleep with the OW. She didn't need the nitty gritty details. And to be honest if she got the details, there would have been no R at all. And *I'm sure most of the ones who got all the details most likely opted out of their marriage.*
> 
> ...



I knew enough of the details that my fiancé changed a lot of his behaviour towards me to encourage me to stay with him. through several discussions, it also made him realise / admit that he was trying to pursue separate relationships with her and me. And that well, if he wanted me to stick around, that would just not be possible with any woman.

This bit about handling the truth....... it's the cheaters who can't handle the truth. If you really felt justified in what you were doing, you wouldn't hide your actions from your SO. If my fiancé thought there was nothing wrong with trying to hang out with his "just a friend" ex, why didn't he tell me that he was making plans to do that. 

When I went away for a night with a female friend during that time, I got a sh!tload of questions from him. So he was certainly concerned about who I was spending time with when he wasn't around.

Cheaters don't like the truth because* it takes* away the control that they had over the current relationship.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

CH said:


> Do you need the whole truth to see if you want stay with them or leave and start a new life without the cheating spouse?
> 
> My wife just needed to know did I cheat and did I sleep with the OW. She didn't need the nitty gritty details. And to be honest if she got the details, there would have been no R at all. And I'm sure most of the ones who got all the details most likely opted out of their marriage.
> 
> ...


CH, what you did/are doing isn't trickle truth though. If your BW wanted more details, it sounds like you would tell her. You're letting her set the level of openness about the affair and that IS full disclosure.

Full Disclosure isn't about saying every little detail unprompted. It's about being an open book IF and WHEN your BS wants or needs information.


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

"*Sunlight is arguably your most powerful natural weapon against mold*"

~_Mold and Mildew Remedies.com_

Kill the mold,don't let it return - expose it to the light.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

So I agree totally. I guess I am just a need to know kind of guy. I mean, I don't care if his d!ck is bigger or if he slapped her @ss while he pulled her hair, etc. I KNOW that kind of stuff went on. It's a passionate relationship, for christssake! BUT, when I DO have a question, l get an "I don't know", or "I can't remember". And not about trivial stuff, but stuff you WOULD remember! Certain dates, certain locations. As a for instance, while we were working on "recovery" (they were still "talking") there was a Friday night when I was driving overnight. Our kids were staying at our in-laws and he called her about midnight. The phone records show they spoke for a minute and no more contact. Later after I discovered this, I asked her about it. She states she didn't remember. So, I'm out of town, our kids are at your parents, and you don't remember what a one minute conversation was about? Um, how about "can you meet me at my house?" Or something like that? Cause I know if I were in an affair still and my lover called me and I knew spouse and kids were totally out of the picture, I for sure would have at least remembered WANTING to sneak out, or them in. Period. I don't know just doesn't work here. 

And that is just one example of stuff that drives me nuts! So again, I would still be forgiving the "affair" since it was the same guy and now it's 3 times instead of 2, but I guess the pessimist in me says, well, it wasn't one more time, it was the "one more time" on top of the multitude of stuff I don't already know. Which in that case is still minimizing and still trying to hold me in the dark since I can't prove it. Which means she still can't return for true R cause she is still holding on to soooooo much. 

The Affair broke our marriage. The lies killed it.

I just don't believe anything any longer. And I don't know how to make this work. And so we continue to drift apart...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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