# New Here and concerned about my wife



## CubFanBearMan

Hi all, I’ve been looking to find somewhere to get some advice and hopefully this is the place. Here goes...
My wife and I have been married 10 years, I would say our marriage is pretty good, not perfect, I don’t communicate with her as much as I should, but that’s just my personality. We have 2 kids (3 & 5). My wife is a nurse and probably a year and a half to 2 years ago she started in a new position at the hospital in nursing education. She is one of the younger people in that department (we are both 36). There is a similar age male in her department that she pretty much immediately took to because they were close in age. Fast forward a little while and they’ve become pretty good friends. On their breaks at work sometimes the walk around the hospital campus. He is married with no kids. I knew that she texted him a lot after work hours discussing work related things and also just general texts that you might send to a friend, but just recently as I was setting up a new phone for her, I saw what was a huge amount of texts to this guy. To put it into context, on her phone the three largest and longest text threads are #1. Me, #2. Her sister, and #3. This guy. Now consider that she’s only known him for maybe two years and he has the 3rd largest text thread with her. 

So, being curious as to what they talk about so much, I scrolled through the last couple months of texts. I found a lot of work related things, a lot of conversations about how their days are going and what they are doing on the their days off, never anything together, from what I can see, unless she is deleting those parts of the texts. But a lot of back and forth in a lot of detail about their lives, she talks to him about our kids a lot, things that we do together, she sends him selfies, and he does the same. Nothing provocative, but I think they could definitely be consider flirtatious. 

The two most concerning things I found in the texts were 1. Almost every day they text each other “Good Morning” and “Good Night” and 2. I scrolled through the part of the text that shows all the pictures that they’ve exchanged, and she sent him a picture of her bra and panties laid out on the bed. It wasn’t a pic of her wearing them, just the bra and panties on the bed. And that pic was deleted from the main text thread, but you could still see it in the pictures sent portion. 

In the past I’ve sort of made jokes about her and this guy that I thought it was kind of weird that she was such good friends with a guy, and that it was a little odd that they would take walks together at work. She said that all he is her “work best friend”. She doesn’t know that I went through her phone, she may suspect it because I had it for a while trying to set It up for her, and she asked me if I found anything interesting on there, and I told her that I didn’t look through it, and she said “I wouldn’t have just given you my phone if I thought there was anything on there that was bad”. 

I have been caught by her 2 other times looking through her phone, I was just curious about the things she talks about, which I know, is a complete invasion of privacy, and I was wrong for that. But now with this, I want to ask her about everything, but I fear that she is going to get really upset that I went through her phone again, and may not fully trust me ever again. I can already tell that she doesn’t trust me with her phone after snooping though it before because she never leaves it accessible to me. It’s always on her. 

So I’m at a loss, do I bring up all these new concerns and risk a giant blowout that results in her losing a lot of trust in me for again, invading her privacy, or do I not bring it up and risk what could be semi-serious flirting turning into something more serious and possibly ending my marriage. Sorry for the long post, but I really don’t know what to do. In her defense, I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat, but I see the “flirting” that she may not think is flirting, just being friendly, and maybe he takes it as more than it is and tries something with her. To my knowledge, the only time they hang out outside of work is in big group with other people from their department, they’ve all gone to dinners and small get togethers at someone’s house. 

So, with all that said, any advice would be appreciated, thanks!


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## ButtPunch

You are correct in being concerned.

This is at best an emotional affair.

She sent a pic of her bra and panties? 

This is way over the line. 

You better establish your boundaries now.


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## ButtPunch

Her phone guarding is a huge red flag!

I would inform the OM's wife immediately about the number of texts and the 
bra and panties text. Do not let your wife know you are doing this either. 

Your wife needs to know you mean business. She needs to quit her job because
as long as they work together they will maintain their affair one way or another.

....and yes it is this serious

Sorry you are here and going thru this.


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## Marduk

Here’s what you do. 

Back up her phone, or at least take screen shots of your evidence. Because she will swear up and down that you’re paranoid and making stuff up. 

Then, when all of that is safe, you sit her down someplace quiet, and you say “Wife, I know what’s going on with you and this guy. Don’t bother lying or trying to pretend that it’s innocent. I know. And I’m not going to tell you what I know or how I know it. What I’m here to tell you is that you have 24 hours to tell me everything, or to contact a lawyer, because our marriage is over. I’m not speaking to you for the next 24 hours. This time tomorrow, you’re either going to tell me everything, or tell me the name of your lawyer.”

Then get up and walk away. Ignore her about everything but the kids. 

It’s escalating. If you don’t stop it now, it will all soon be over anyway.


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## EmeryB

I'm so sorry but that is not an innocent friendship. Not at all. Your gut is telling you that for a reason. DO NOT confront her yet or she will just deny everything and take steps to be even more secretive so that you are never able to find out anything more. I know this because I've been in your shoes. 

I suggest you go to the Coping With Infidelity section of this forum and start reading. One thing that is always suggested, and that I did myself, is secretly recording her. The thing is, you may find out some pretty awful things are going on after all. You have to prepare yourself. It's TOUGH. 

You will find a lot of good advice here as well as sympathetic comrades. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married

CubFanBearMan said:


> I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat!


I wish I wish I wish so so so hard that I only had a dollar for every time a man came in here and said those EXACT words only to find out different.

She is already showing all the CLASSIC signs of a developing affair .... emotional or otherwise ......it's already FOR SURE an emotional affair

You are already showing the CLASSIC story of bury the head in the sand and claim "but I'm invading her privacy...she has rights..."
That's the classic do nothing and get what's coming to you approach. 

If you want to give that other man the rights to your wife (and the rest of her too) you better get your head out your rear .....

***************************************************************************************************************************************

OK so now what ......... KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that that part is clear what you need is proof .......and I mean REAL proof.

If you don't get real proof before you start running your mouth to her then you just shot yourself in the foot.

Everyone on these boards has seen these play out a thousand times ...... your story looks like a re-run already watched a thousand time ---"The Hospital Story"

So get FoneLab and crack the phone for anything deleted and then get a PI.

You can do all the " Yeah but...Yeah but....Yeah but....." you want but the truth is there is A LOT MORE GOING ON THAN YOU KNOW !!!!!

Get FoneLab and get a PI. You will get answers really fast.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY the way ....... she is cheating. Your going to come back to this post and read it again one day. Your going to see that I'm right.


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## ButtPunch

@farsidejunky

Please move to the appropriate forum


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## farsidejunky

ButtPunch said:


> @farsidejunky
> 
> 
> 
> Please move to the appropriate forum


Done. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

How do you know she actually goes to these other folks houses for dinner? That’s an odd situation even if it’s true.

Get fonelab for her phone and get those deleted messages asap .


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## farsidejunky

Marduk said:


> Here’s what you do.
> 
> 
> 
> Back up her phone, or at least take screen shots of your evidence. Because she will swear up and down that you’re paranoid and making stuff up.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, when all of that is safe, you sit her down someplace quiet, and you say “Wife, I know what’s going on with you and this guy. Don’t bother lying or trying to pretend that it’s innocent. I know. And I’m not going to tell you what I know or how I know it. What I’m here to tell you is that you have 24 hours to tell me everything, or to contact a lawyer, because our marriage is over. I’m not speaking to you for the next 24 hours. This time tomorrow, you’re either going to tell me everything, or tell me the name of your lawyer.”
> 
> 
> 
> Then get up and walk away. Ignore her about everything but the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s escalating. If you don’t stop it now, it will all soon be over anyway.


Everything in this is spot-on except 24 hours. That is 23 hours and 55 minutes too long. It gives her time to hide evidence and get their stories straight.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

I really just need to know one thing, OP.

Do you believe this to be anything less then a full-fledged physical affair with her being in love with her AP?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Marduk

PS don’t tell her about the phone. She’ll make it about privacy. 

Don’t make it about the underwear. She’ll make up some story about how she was getting his advice so she could look sexy for you, or she was helping him buy stuff for his wife or something. 

Don’t make it about trust, because she’s already blown it. 

Don’t make it about anything but her telling you the truth. Let silences be uncomfortable. Don’t listen to demands or threats. Let her walk away if she wants. Let her threaten divorce. My wife did all that and more before we got to the truth. 

It is a sexual relationship even if they haven’t had sex yet. It’s an inappropriate relationship even if they haven’t made out yet. It’s her accountability to manage such things so it’s clear to everyone that it’s innocent - she hasn’t done that. 

Make it all about her telling you what happened. If she admits about sending pics of her underwear, you know you’re beginning the path. But don’t let it end there, and don’t let it end with half truths. 

Buckle up. This is going to get hard. And you’re going to have to take some risks here if you’re going to right this ship.


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## Tilted 1

If you have verzion you can get a tablet and have all of her texts in duplicate sent to the tablet.
In marriage there isn't to be any secrets. And a red flag said is she wouldn't give you the phone if there was something on it. Means she edits it continually ( lying). Giving the appearance of nothing to hide. The bra/panties thing means sexting is being done (cheating). And possibly talking about the kids so much could be grooming him to take your job as that away from you (cheating). 

Not that type of woman? Sorry man! ( Wanting kibble's from another). Small dinners at another house? If you say so. The time has come to take a stand and demand for your marriage and peace. Tell her he's not you and doesn't need her Hellos and good night's. Only you and your family is deserves her attention. Sorry sounds like a lover instead of a coworker.

Or your going to be the marriage police! from now on. Walking on eggs then your frustration will trun and become the attacker to her and your little family. Do now what needs done! wishing it away isn't a way to live.

Sorry you are here.


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## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> Everything in this is spot-on except 24 hours. That is 23 hours and 55 minutes too long. It gives her time to hide evidence and get their stories straight.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


The 24 hours is intentional. 

It gives her time to consider. Get paranoid. Think about what he could know vs what he probably knows. To sweat it out all night and not sleep. To think about telling the kids. To think about the vast change in power that just happened. 

Peoples first reaction is to lie. On the spot. Like a kid in the cookie jar. The 24 hour time out is so she gets a taste of being afraid and freaked out. 

It may inspire a different response than she would give on the spot. 

It also vastly changes the power, because now he’s in control of the conversation. Probably for the first time in a long time.


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## Tilted 1

CFBN, What are your thoughts right now know of what you are reading? Don't go dark!


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## Yeswecan

CubFanBearMan said:


> Hi all, I’ve been looking to find somewhere to get some advice and hopefully this is the place. Here goes...
> My wife and I have been married 10 years, I would say our marriage is pretty good, not perfect, I don’t communicate with her as much as I should, but that’s just my personality. We have 2 kids (3 & 5). My wife is a nurse and probably a year and a half to 2 years ago she started in a new position at the hospital in nursing education. She is one of the younger people in that department (we are both 36). There is a similar age male in her department that she pretty much immediately took to because they were close in age. Fast forward a little while and they’ve become pretty good friends. On their breaks at work sometimes the walk around the hospital campus. He is married with no kids. I knew that she texted him a lot after work hours discussing work related things and also just general texts that you might send to a friend, but just recently as I was setting up a new phone for her, I saw what was a huge amount of texts to this guy. To put it into context, on her phone the three largest and longest text threads are #1. Me, #2. Her sister, and #3. This guy. Now consider that she’s only known him for maybe two years and he has the 3rd largest text thread with her.
> 
> So, being curious as to what they talk about so much, I scrolled through the last couple months of texts. I found a lot of work related things, a lot of conversations about how their days are going and what they are doing on the their days off, never anything together, from what I can see, unless she is deleting those parts of the texts. But a lot of back and forth in a lot of detail about their lives, she talks to him about our kids a lot, things that we do together, she sends him selfies, and he does the same. Nothing provocative, but I think they could definitely be consider flirtatious.
> 
> The two most concerning things I found in the texts were 1. Almost every day they text each other “Good Morning” and “Good Night” and 2. I scrolled through the part of the text that shows all the pictures that they’ve exchanged, and she sent him a picture of her bra and panties laid out on the bed. It wasn’t a pic of her wearing them, just the bra and panties on the bed. And that pic was deleted from the main text thread, but you could still see it in the pictures sent portion.
> 
> In the past I’ve sort of made jokes about her and this guy that I thought it was kind of weird that she was such good friends with a guy, and that it was a little odd that they would take walks together at work. She said that all he is her “work best friend”. She doesn’t know that I went through her phone, she may suspect it because I had it for a while trying to set It up for her, and she asked me if I found anything interesting on there, and I told her that I didn’t look through it, and she said “I wouldn’t have just given you my phone if I thought there was anything on there that was bad”.
> 
> I have been caught by her 2 other times looking through her phone, I was just curious about the things she talks about, which I know, is a complete invasion of privacy, and I was wrong for that. But now with this, I want to ask her about everything, but I fear that she is going to get really upset that I went through her phone again, and may not fully trust me ever again. I can already tell that she doesn’t trust me with her phone after snooping though it before because she never leaves it accessible to me. It’s always on her.
> 
> So I’m at a loss, do I bring up all these new concerns and risk a giant blowout that results in her losing a lot of trust in me for again, invading her privacy, or do I not bring it up and risk what could be semi-serious flirting turning into something more serious and possibly ending my marriage. Sorry for the long post, but I really don’t know what to do. In her defense, I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat, but I see the “flirting” that she may not think is flirting, just being friendly, and maybe he takes it as more than it is and tries something with her. To my knowledge, the only time they hang out outside of work is in big group with other people from their department, they’ve all gone to dinners and small get togethers at someone’s house.
> 
> So, with all that said, any advice would be appreciated, thanks!



EA affair. Sending selfies? Bra and panties on the bed pic sent? Really? It would appear your W is working the OM. For what reason to send undergarment pics other then to heighten sexual tension. Ask your W how she would feel if you female coworker was sending you selfies and text good morning/night. Pics from OW of panties and bra. Think she would be ok with it? Doubt it.


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## Marduk

A good thought just occurred: “wife, if it’s all so innocent, how about us four get together - the two of us plus him and his wife, and we talk about everything? I mean, if it’s all so innocent, she should laugh about it, right? I’ll have some interesting things to show her.”

I said that to the other guy with my wife’s EA - which I’m convinced wasn’t even romantic - but even that made him run like the wind. Because he was just fine with risking my marriage, but not his own.


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## Yeswecan

Marduk said:


> A good thought just occurred: “wife, if it’s all so innocent, how about us four get together - the two of us plus him and his wife, and we talk about everything? I mean, if it’s all so innocent, she should laugh about it, right? I’ll have some interesting things to show her.”
> 
> I said that to the other guy with my wife’s EA - which I’m convinced wasn’t even romantic - but even that made him run like the wind. Because he was just fine with risking my marriage, but not his own.


Ask this question and watch the squirm dance start.


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## Marc878

Sounds like your fear of making your WIFE mad is blinding you here.

Better wake up and open your eyes bud.

A pic of bra and panties means she's willingly driving this bus. While you are sitting way in the back wondering. 

Why is that?


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## Tasorundo

How about you send yourself that picture of the bra and panties, delete it from her phone. Then later send it to her as if you laid it out and ask her to wear it. See if she notices where it came from. It is super passive aggressive, but would be interesting.

I was thinking you were possibly overly concerned, but right to question it until it got to that point. There is no reason what-so-ever for that to exist. He has no need to know, for any reason, what her underwear is like.

How long ago was that picture?

How do you know who is at the department get togethers?

I also support the double date suggestion.


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## Stormguy2018

Full-blown EA, on the fast track to a PA if not already there. You need to take some serious action ASAP.


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## Marduk

Yeswecan said:


> Ask this question and watch the squirm dance start.


That’s where you say “don’t worry about it. I have his wife’s number right here. I’ll call her right now and set something up. I mean, you’re just friends right? I should probably get to know your friends better. And your friend’s wife. I bet we have a lot in common, probably more than she realizes.”


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## Malaise

CubFanBearMan said:


> To my knowledge, the only time they hang out outside of work is in big group with other people from their department, they’ve all gone to dinners and small get togethers at someone’s house.


You don't really know what goes on, do you?


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## niceguy47460

Get fonelab asap . There is more there that you don't know . You two are married there is no privacy in a marriage . Privacy is for single people . 

As far as she would never cheat . No one is above cheating . And work place cheating is one of the biggest affairs that happens. Because they can say they are working over and not actually working . Hanging out after work is not a good sign either ( that is a way of them spending time with one another without you there ) . 

She is keeping her phone on her so you don't see a text he may send and you see it before she does. Get fonelab and see all the text . Wait till she goes to sleep and install it . 

There is huge red flags here that she is having a affair and your gut is screaming at you. Dig deep my friend .


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## niceguy47460

Let me guess you are not invited to the get togethers are you and the others in the get togethers already know what is going .


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## alte Dame

Your marriage is in trouble. Your wife is in an affair. If it hasn't gone physical, it will. You posted this because your gut is screaming at you and it isn't wrong.

Before you confront her, find out if this guy is married. If he is, let his wife know what is going on. You sound too timid to do this, but it is the surest way to kill this relationship.


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## Chaparral

Get fonelab now and run it. 

Then take a picture of your underwear and a baseball bat and send it to him with your wife’s phone.


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## Hicks

You already have all the information you really need. The problem you have is you now want to discuss it all with her so she can tell you what it all means. This is a losing propostion that winds up with you being called insecure, controlling and all sorts of other names. You have seen enough to know there is a presence in your marriage that doesn't belong there. You are the guy who gets to decide what is acceptable to you or not acceptable to you. You have already decided it is not acceptable to you. Where you are now is you are deathly afraid to act on this. Because you feel if you tell her to end this friendship and get a new job she will divorce you. So what is ironic is you lack the confidence to realize that she should also be resistant to divorce as much as you are if you have any kind of balanced marriage. She will be angry and resistant but she does know already that she is betraying you. So if she does not want to drop this friendship and her job to stay married to you, then do you feel she is invested to the level that you are ?


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## CubFanBearMan

Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me. 

I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


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## Tasorundo

Both of you then read not just friends, by shirley glass I think.


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## Tilted 1

Chaparral said:


> Get fonelab now and run it.
> 
> Then take a picture of your underwear and a baseball bat and send it to him with your wife’s phone.


A so to say ** Come to Jesus Moment!!! *** Truly narly:smile2:>:wink2:>


Narly. This topic has been deleted. Britney Apr 20, 2017, 3:56 AM. and no it doesnt mean cool, it means insane, when surfers say that was a narly wave they are saying it was insane and diffucult not that it was cool. narly is a word used to evoke an amazement that is slightly negative


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## Tilted 1

Showing my age a bit


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## Stormguy2018

1. No contact, ever again.
2. Quit her job.
3. Confess everything. (That underwear picture thing - was she telling him "This is what you'll be seeing later on wink wink?")
4. IC is probably in the cards, maybe MC as well.


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## Tilted 1

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


Proceed, with vigor nothing happens without participation on both cheaters, they will lie lie lie , gas light you and deny deny deny, and do things for you to distract you. Making things seem normal and hunky dory. This is what they are good at!! And see exactly what she is going to do to fix this crap sandwich she's feeding you.


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## Tilted 1

Most all here has under gone, what your going through, the pain, hurt, disbelief, the agony, the frustration, resentment, anger, manipulation, the horror, the grief, the unbelievable sadness, . What you will start doing and feeling are the 5 stages of grief.

But above all don't mistake acceptance and it was ok for your wife to do this to you.


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## Malaise

CubFanBearMan said:


> The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.


It's possible she is still invested in your marriage. It's also possible it's just camouflage. Keeping you in the dark is job 1 for a cheater.


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## Decorum

Just to add this to the good advice you are already receiving.

If you have that list of messages, can you compare it to your phone bill, and to that number to see if any exchanges been deleted?


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## Tilted 1

And do what stormguy said, it's a small price for her to pay, for your marriage, then if she's remorseful and shattered she will do the heavy lifting to prove herself. Everyday so she can prove it and gain your trust back.


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## ButtPunch

If no one has suggested yet, put a Voiced Activated Recorder under the seat of her car.
You can purchase some velcro so it doesn't slide around. I imagine you will have 
some answers pretty quick.


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## BioFury

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


What I would do, is get a voice activated recorder (VAR), and place it somewhere hidden in her car. Under the seat, for instance. I'd do that now, so any conversation she has with the other man as a result of any other actions you take can be captured. Buy two VAR's, and take one with you on vacation.

On the last day of your vacation together, I would sit her down, and tell her that she needs to quit her job. That she crossed the line with "him", that you're going to tell the other man's wife what's going on when you get home, and that she's never to see or talk to him again.

Do not tell her what you found, or what it is you know. Just that she violated your trust, and compromised the sanctity of your marriage, and that it's going to stop. Then, tell her that you're going for a walk, alone, and leave - having previously set up the second VAR in the room. That way you capture anything she says, and any phone conversation she has in reaction to your confrontation.

Try to time the conversation to where when you leave to go for a walk, she feels rushed to call the other man and tell him what happened before you two head home. But not so much so that she may not call, for fear that she has no time to do so before you get back.

And if you really want to cover your bases, you could hire a PI in the city of your vacation in advance. With instructions that if she leaves the hotel after your conversation, to follow her and capture any phone conversation she has in a separate location. That way, if she decides to leave the room for her phone conversations, you're still prepared.


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## Tilted 1

And the wisdom behind some of the EA's is she was giving her heart to him first. She's just bolder now did you ever get a text from her of her undies and if you did it's stated to roll down hill from here on out. Next if not already her body. Sorry man, really am. This sucks!


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## dadstartingover

I'll just leave these here...

https://dadstartingover.com/my-wife-wouldnt-do-that/

https://dadstartingover.com/how-to-catch-your-wife-cheating/

https://dadstartingover.com/now-what/


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## Tilted 1

BioFury - having previously set up the second VAR in the room. That way you capture anything she says, and any phone conversation she has in reaction to your confrontation.

Try to time the conversation it to where when you leave to go for a walk, she feels rushed to call the other man and tell him what happened before you two head home. 


Great great idea!!!!!


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## Robert22205

I don't think you should confront yet. She will only admit to what you know (1 pic). There's a lot more that's missing: other deleted pics and texts, as well as whether their relationship became physical.

What messaging service does she use? You can 'borrow' her phone and use software to recover deleted texts and pictures. Which may prove a PA.

Or you could hire a PI the next time she goes out with COS .... or spy on her yourself.

You should be way past feeling guilty about researching her phone. A high level of texting (particularly first and last thing at night) would make most people suspicious. And your suspicions were correct. 

Obviously she deleted the bra & panties pic (and forgot to delete it from the sent folder).
Unfortunately, you have reason to believe that she deleted other pics as well as flirty (or worse) texts.

Every time she went out with coworkers is now suspicious because it provided these two with an opportunity to get physical.


----------



## Chaparral

When you put voice activated recorder in her car, uh some heavy duty Velcro to stick it securely. Try it out first to see if it has lights or sound. You can cut off a plug from headphones or cord to keep a speaker from working. Best Buy and Walmart usually have them in electronics. Sony is the best. About 50-60 bucks.

EA or PA they CANNOT WORK TOGETHER period.

Sorry you have to go through this.


----------



## Chaparral

Usually, during an affair the wife will change your home sex life considerably. Have you noticed this?


----------



## The Middleman

CubFanBearMan said:


> If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


Let me ask you a question: What do you think would happen if you sat down with your wife and you explained to her that you are no longer comfortable with her relationship with this person, and you would like her to break all contact with him except for only necessary work related matters. What would her reaction be?

As a follow-up, what do you think would happen if you reached out to her “friend” and met with him to explain directly to him that you no longer want him to have non work conversations with your wife, and if he didn’t agree to it you would be speaking with his wife? What do you think your wife would do if you went down that road?

I am asking this because you really need to do both of these things in short order.


----------



## Yeswecan

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


Full stop my man. You have a 3 day weekend to assess what is going on. Watch your W actions. Texting all the time while with you on your trip. Secretive in the bathroom with phone. Keep quiet and take notes. Sex not happen as your W looks like she is la la land. Once the weekend is done and your W is obviously lost in the OM world via texting, you then confront. However, out of the blue demand you see her phone before any deleting can happen. It will be here you read ,"I miss you." with stupid little emoji hearts.


----------



## re16

Sorry you are here.

1. Do not confront her about any of this yet. You need to get more evidence first, if you confront her, she will destroy any chances of you finding evidence.
2. Get the deleted texts by using fonelab. Do you still have her old phone? You can do it directly from that one. It is highly likely this is the only step you need to take to discover exactly what is happening.

There are huge red flags here:

Massive volume of communication with another man.
She tried to delete the evidence of sending him underwear pics solely to deceive you.
Nurses are notorious for infidelity (some think it is going through stressful / traumatic events together that causes them to bond)
She claims to be spending group time with others that could easily be just with him.


Other things to think about.

She could be claiming to be at work when they are really just together doing things. Can you verify her hours / pay / time / vacation hour usage all align?
You might want to add yourself to find friends app so you can see if she is where she says she is.
Imagine if you were getting texts like that from another woman, do you think it would be a platonic situation? Of course not.
If you log in to her imessage with another device (you'll have access to her phone because it will notify the phone), you will start seeing all the messages (even ones she tries to delete).

Mouth closed, eyes open for a while.


----------



## re16

It will be tough to play it cool over the anniversary trip, but you really need to keep it together, unless of course you run fonelab today.... either it confirms it is not any worse than you already know or you find out its bad and go on the trip by yourself.


----------



## jsmart

This is without a doubt at the very least an emotional affair but I'd bet my next mortgage payment that it's a very sexual affair. The biggest give away are the deleted text of the pic of panties and bra and the good morning good night text. That is WAY more than just a co-worker. She known him for less than 2 years and she's doing that? 

Ask yourself, why is she sending another man a pic of her undies. That is to wet his appetite for what's to come that day. Look back on when the pic was sent and think back to her activities. Did she have some "work" event that evening or weekend?

Most of your answers are in her phone. You need to run a restoral to get those deleted text and pics. You will most likely find declarations of love, and heavy sexual talk. 

Once you have the details, you need to engage the OM wife. She may already be suspecting something. The fastest way to put an end to this affair is to talk with the OM's wife. You send her text with pic of the undies layed out on the bed. Trust me she won't be wishy washy like you have been. She will unleash holy hell on him.


----------



## Gabriel

Some of these posts feel a little extreme to me. Now, I will say this is relationship is too involved. Nobody should text someone of the opposite sex that much, platonic or not. 

What was the context surrounding the bra/panties pic? Was it, "look what I'm wearing", or "look what I'm surprising my husband with", or "got these new today, what do you think?" or what?

It sounds like to me, she is WAY too comfortable with this dude. The fact that all but maybe a couple of texts were really platonic, you might have nipped this in the bud before it got really bad. But you NEED to do something, NOW. The idea someone had of suggesting a double date is perfect. Do that. Surprised you haven't done that already. If this guy is such a good friend, you guys should get together as a couple. From that date, observe very, very carefully. Maybe even take his wife aside (slyly) and talk with her about how she feels about their friendship. Maybe she doesn't know just how friendly they are.

You are at least 2X as likely to thwart any further development here if his wife has her antennae up.

Oh, and do NOT confront yet. You have nothing concrete and she will just snowball you and hide everything from now on.


----------



## Marduk

Gabriel said:


> Some of these posts feel a little extreme to me. Now, I will say this is relationship is too involved. Nobody should text someone of the opposite sex that much, platonic or not.
> 
> What was the context surrounding the bra/panties pic? Was it, "look what I'm wearing", or "look what I'm surprising my husband with", or "got these new today, what do you think?" or what?
> 
> It sounds like to me, she is WAY too comfortable with this dude. The fact that all but maybe a couple of texts were really platonic, you might have nipped this in the bud before it got really bad. But you NEED to do something, NOW. The idea someone had of suggesting a double date is perfect. Do that. Surprised you haven't done that already. If this guy is such a good friend, you guys should get together as a couple. From that date, observe very, very carefully. Maybe even take his wife aside (slyly) and talk with her about how she feels about their friendship. Maybe she doesn't know just how friendly they are.
> 
> You are at least 2X as likely to thwart any further development here if his wife has her antennae up.
> 
> Oh, and do NOT confront yet. You have nothing concrete and she will just snowball you and hide everything from now on.


If it were guaranteed a physical affair, I’d be more inclined to go all magnum PI on her. 

But it might not be - yet. In which case, it’s best to stop this thing right in its tracks before it goes physical. Then maybe there’s a shot at reconciliation. 

Give this thing a week or two, and there might not be.


----------



## BioFury

Marduk said:


> If it were guaranteed a physical affair, I’d be more inclined to go all magnum PI on her.
> 
> But it might not be - yet. In which case, it’s best to stop this thing right in its tracks before it goes physical. Then maybe there’s a shot at reconciliation.
> 
> Give this thing a week or two, and there might not be.


QFT. Stopping a train wreck is better than cleaning one up.


----------



## arbitrator

CubFanBearMan said:


> Hi all, I’ve been looking to find somewhere to get some advice and hopefully this is the place. Here goes...
> My wife and I have been married 10 years, I would say our marriage is pretty good, not perfect, I don’t communicate with her as much as I should, but that’s just my personality. We have 2 kids (3 & 5). My wife is a nurse and probably a year and a half to 2 years ago she started in a new position at the hospital in nursing education. She is one of the younger people in that department (we are both 36). There is a similar age male in her department that she pretty much immediately took to because they were close in age. Fast forward a little while and they’ve become pretty good friends. On their breaks at work sometimes the walk around the hospital campus. He is married with no kids. I knew that she texted him a lot after work hours discussing work related things and also just general texts that you might send to a friend, but just recently as I was setting up a new phone for her, I saw what was a huge amount of texts to this guy. To put it into context, on her phone the three largest and longest text threads are #1. Me, #2. Her sister, and #3. This guy. Now consider that she’s only known him for maybe two years and he has the 3rd largest text thread with her.
> 
> So, being curious as to what they talk about so much, I scrolled through the last couple months of texts. I found a lot of work related things, a lot of conversations about how their days are going and what they are doing on the their days off, never anything together, from what I can see, unless she is deleting those parts of the texts. But a lot of back and forth in a lot of detail about their lives, she talks to him about our kids a lot, things that we do together, she sends him selfies, and he does the same. Nothing provocative, but I think they could definitely be consider flirtatious.
> 
> The two most concerning things I found in the texts were 1. Almost every day they text each other “Good Morning” and “Good Night” and 2.* I scrolled through the part of the text that shows all the pictures that they’ve exchanged, and she sent him a picture of her bra and panties laid out on the bed. It wasn’t a pic of her wearing them, just the bra and panties on the bed. And that pic was deleted from the main text thread, but you could still see it in the pictures sent portion. *
> 
> In the past I’ve sort of made jokes about her and this guy that I thought it was kind of weird that she was such good friends with a guy, and that it was a little odd that they would take walks together at work. She said that all he is her “work best friend”. She doesn’t know that I went through her phone, she may suspect it because I had it for a while trying to set It up for her, and she asked me if I found anything interesting on there, and I told her that I didn’t look through it, and she said “I wouldn’t have just given you my phone if I thought there was anything on there that was bad”.
> 
> I have been caught by her 2 other times looking through her phone, I was just curious about the things she talks about, which I know, is a complete invasion of privacy, and I was wrong for that. But now with this, I want to ask her about everything, but I fear that she is going to get really upset that I went through her phone again, and may not fully trust me ever again. I can already tell that she doesn’t trust me with her phone after snooping though it before because she never leaves it accessible to me. It’s always on her.
> 
> So I’m at a loss, do I bring up all these new concerns and risk a giant blowout that results in her losing a lot of trust in me for again, invading her privacy, or do I not bring it up and risk what could be semi-serious flirting turning into something more serious and possibly ending my marriage. Sorry for the long post, but I really don’t know what to do. In her defense, I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat, but I see the “flirting” that she may not think is flirting, just being friendly, and maybe he takes it as more than it is and tries something with her. To my knowledge, the only time they hang out outside of work is in big group with other people from their department, they’ve all gone to dinners and small get togethers at someone’s house.
> 
> So, with all that said, any advice would be appreciated, thanks!


*Rest assured that her paramour not only got to see that same bra and panties on the photo, but also physically on "the model!" And he then quite likely got to take them off of the squealing model!

Way too much deception and coverup here!

Start visiting with a good "piranha" family attorney pronto!*


----------



## BioFury

Gabriel said:


> Some of these posts feel a little extreme to me. Now, I will say this is relationship is too involved. Nobody should text someone of the opposite sex that much, platonic or not.
> 
> What was the context surrounding the bra/panties pic? Was it, "look what I'm wearing", or "look what I'm surprising my husband with", or "got these new today, what do you think?" or what?
> 
> It sounds like to me, she is WAY too comfortable with this dude. The fact that all but maybe a couple of texts were really platonic, you might have nipped this in the bud before it got really bad. But you NEED to do something, NOW. The idea someone had of suggesting a double date is perfect. Do that. Surprised you haven't done that already. If this guy is such a good friend, you guys should get together as a couple. From that date, observe very, very carefully. Maybe even take his wife aside (slyly) and talk with her about how she feels about their friendship. Maybe she doesn't know just how friendly they are.
> 
> You are at least 2X as likely to thwart any further development here if his wife has her antennae up.
> 
> Oh, and do NOT confront yet. You have nothing concrete and she will just snowball you and hide everything from now on.


In my opinion, the context of her bra and panties picture is irrelevant, in identical fashion to the context surrounding a blowjob. It's unacceptable, and a clear violation of marital boundaries.

And, he does have something concrete - the aforementioned picture. It proves that lines are being crossed, and that their relationship has gone too far. The OP should cut it's head off before it grows wings. Not wait and see what kind of wings it sprouts.

The VAR's planted in her car and their hotel room over the weekend will reveal whether it's already gone physical, without the OP sitting on his hands, and giving the other man more time to push things farther with his wife.


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## SunCMars

Marduk said:


> But it might not be - yet. In which case, it’s best to stop this thing right in its tracks before it goes physical. Then maybe there’s a shot at reconciliation.
> 
> Give this thing a week or two, and there might not be.


True...

At this point, the other point might be....is it not too late for forgiveness?

Let the affair go its natural way. Let it run its course. 
If you stop it, you will stop the motion, but not her true intentions.

You need to find out her true intentions.
Do you not? For your future togethers 'sake'?


Prove, that she removes her bra and panties for this guy, in person.

That way, there will be no doubt about the bare facts. 

When said and done you can then sleep in the know, not in the dark.



TT-1


----------



## Marc878

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


*Wake up !!!!! They won't stop!!!!* She's on the slippery slope and you're doing nothing but hoping it'll just go away. If it hasn't turned into a sexual affair yet it soon will.

The Calvary isn't coming to rescue you. You don't step up now it's gonna get a lot worse.

Laying in the victim chair here and doing nothing is the absolute worse thing you can do.

Fear is ruling you when you should be pissed off. You maybe affraid to make your wife mad but she's not a bit affraid of stepping out with another man on you.

Get out of the hoping for a miracle, it'll all just go away if you ignore it mode.

Your marriage, family, etc is about to be blown up!!!!!


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## Wolfman1968

CubFanBearMan said:


> The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. *So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me. *


1. No, to the first half of the bolded sentence.
2. Yes, to the second half.


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## Marduk

SunCMars said:


> True...
> 
> At this point, the other point might be....is it not too late for forgiveness?
> 
> Let the affair go its natural way. Let it run its course.
> If you stop it, you will stop the motion, but not her true intentions.
> 
> You need to find out her true intentions.
> Do you not? For your future togethers 'sake'?
> 
> 
> Prove, that she removes her bra and panties for this guy, in person.
> 
> That way, there will be no doubt about the bare facts.
> 
> When said and done you can then sleep in the know, not in the dark.
> 
> 
> 
> TT-1


It is possible that his wife is just being exceptionally foolish and deluded into thinking it’s all innocent somehow.

It’s very improbable, but possible. 

The most compassionate thing to do is to halt this thing right now. For both of them. And in the improbable event that she somehow never intended it to become what it was becoming.


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## 269370

CubFanBearMan said:


> I scrolled through the part of the text that shows all the pictures that they’ve exchanged, and she sent him a picture of her bra and panties laid out on the bed.



Wtf? This is way over the line!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Middleman

Marduk said:


> It is possible that his wife is just being exceptionally foolish and deluded into thinking it’s all innocent somehow.


What I don’t understand is why so many men these days are accepting of the close opposite sex “friendships”, until they start seeing their wives send photos of their underwear to their male “friends”. No opposite sex friendships is the best rule.


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## arbitrator

*If her OM is married, then this information needs to be discretely shared with his wife, along with the cheaters employer!

Get off your a$$ and over to a good attorney and start protecting your and the children's rights!*


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## 269370

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?



Panties and bra? I am sorry but they are having sex at work...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

The Middleman said:


> What I don’t understand is why so many men these days are accepting of the close opposite sex “friendships”, until they start seeing their wives send photos of their underwear to their male “friends”. No opposite sex friendships is the best rule.



Because the next step is putting your women inside balaclavas...Just need to discuss what’s acceptable and what isn’t. And be professional. No opposite sex friendship rule is not going to stop anyone from cheating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Middleman

InMyPrime said:


> Because the next step is putting your women inside balaclavas...Just need to discuss what’s acceptable and what isn’t. And be professional. No opposite sex friendship rule is not going to stop anyone from cheating.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Based on my personal experience, it’s the best rule to have in place, for both partners. If she/he doesn’t like it, they know where the door is located. You don’t make it easy for someone to hit on your partner.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

“The two most concerning things I found in the texts were 1. Almost every day they text each other “Good Morning” and “Good Night” and 2. I scrolled through the part of the text that shows all the pictures that they’ve exchanged, and she sent him a picture of her bra and panties laid out on the bed. It wasn’t a pic of her wearing them, just the bra and panties on the bed. And that pic was deleted from the main text thread, but you could still see it in the pictures sent portion. “

You know damn good and well what is going on. She is cheating on you. When there exists a coworker situation the equation is EA=PA.
Take it from one who has been there done that. Bust this up NOW.

I would ask her on your trip “would you rather be with POSOM or me”? Tell her point blank there are three people I. This marriage and it is too crowded. You have more than enough to confront in my opinion. You need to man up NOW.....not mouse out!

You need to really listen to the seasoned posters on here.

PS: I would tell her him or me. I need to know NOW! You must be forceful and firm in this situation. Me, I would call POSOMs wife, and after that tell POSOM he is in for a Chicago Bear like ass whoopin!


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## alte Dame

This isn't a guessing game for the people here. She's sending him pics of her panties. This isn't just a red flag. It's a huge red banner waving right in your face.

You need to be forceful and confident. There is no room for 3 people in your marriage.


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## faithfulman

DO NOT CONFRONT YOUR WIFE! IF YOU DO, YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!

Instead, swallow your feelings, put on the best poker face you can, and investigate!

***

Get Fonelab and recover the deleted texts and any other photos, videos, or cheater app messages that she may have deleted - if there were any.

There is an iPhone version and an Android version. 

Don't use Dr. Fone for phone recovery, it sucks.

***

If she is on an iPhone and you have another Apple tablet or phone, and you can get her iCloud username and password, you can sync it to view her messages in real-time. 

But you must be careful because when you add that device, there will be an alert/prompt in her device that you need to dismiss.

So you must do it with her phone in your possession.

***

If you want to go all out, get Sony ICD-PX470 voice activated recorder and put it in her car and maybe somewhere else she talks privately. It's around $50 at Amazon and will arrive in one or two days. 

Get a Sandisk 32GB SD card for each recorder to add more hours of recording than you will need.

Make sure you read the manual to turn off all beeps. Make sure you set the recorder to record to the SD card.

***

Do those two things and you will know if there is more to know.

***

If you are ready to go all out and cover all bases, put a keylogger on her computer. "bestfreekeylogger" will work okay, maybe somebody else has a better recommendation.

Make up some reason to get her to login to her online dashboard for her phone. The you will have her username and password in the keylogger.

***

Then you will know if she is in an emotional affair, a physical affair, or no affair.

Once you know enough of the truth, then you can deal with the poor boundaries and lying.


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## Marc878

You have a wayward wife who is on the hunt. This may not be her first rodeo.

This isn't just some innocent emotional dalliance I'd bet.

You may not want to see it but she's nothing special. Just another typical cheater.

If you stay in this you're in for a very bumpy road long term


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## Tilted 1

foolish and deluded into thinking it’s all innocent.

How any spouse could think doing the above is anything but betrayal. Nothing is innocent about it with the good night's and such, she thinks she's a sexy horny love machine and it's not for her husband. She burning bridge after bridge that links her to her husband. The only delusion is that she is hiding it from her husband. And showing her lying face to the best thing that happened to her. 

How are you doing CFBM? Are you in control? Can you hold it together? But here's the info for the VAR:

Sony ICD-PX470 Stereo Digital Voice Recorder with Built-in USB Voice Recorder. And go to Dollar general buy ear buds and cutoff the leads to the buds so it silences the beep or noises it makes for the motel room l think best buy sell them and don't have to be ordered.


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## MattMatt

arbitrator said:


> *Rest assured that her paramour got to physically see that same bra and panties on the model and not on the bed! And he then quite likely got to take them off of the squealing model!
> 
> Way too much deception and coverup here!
> 
> Start visiting with a good piranha family attorney pronto!*


He possibly asked her to send him a bra and panties photograph, meaning of her wearing them, and she pretended to misunderstand him.

Meaning he is grooming her and she is playing him.

Neither scenario is good or appropriate.


----------



## notmyjamie

Speaking as a woman who has had male friends over the years, this is not just friendship. Does she text all her friends and say good morning and good night? I do that with exactly one person...the man I'm dating. I am thinking of a guy I've known for years and consider to be a good friend. Guess what I've never done and nor has he ever asked me to...send him a picture of my bra and panties. And we've had times when we've been very close friends and been there for each other in very difficult times. Still never ever thought about sending him those types of pictures...and still didn't text him multiple times a day. 

Men and women can absolutely be friends but it doesn't look anything like this at all. If your wife doesn't realize this than she is pretty naive. If she does realize this then she knows what she is doing is wrong...and since she deleted that photo I'd guess she knows it's wrong. 

I'm sorry. *hugs*


----------



## aquarius1

The Middleman said:


> What I don’t understand is why so many men these days are accepting of the close opposite sex “friendships”, until they start seeing their wives send photos of their underwear to their male “friends”. No opposite sex friendships is the best rule.


I call bull on this one. TONS of male friends.

It’s his wife that lacks boundaries, not every woman.


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## The Middleman

aquarius1 said:


> I call bull on this one. TONS of male friends.
> 
> It’s his wife that lacks boundaries, not every woman.


It’s OK to call Bull on it, everyone has a difference of opinion. All I know is that I can’t live with it and I’ve stopped it in my marriage, early on when one opposite sex friendship was budding for my spouse. It’s a deal breaker for me.

Edit: Based on all of the crap I see going on here with OSFs, I’m making a good call. I will give this advice to anyone, especially married men.


----------



## Chaparral

aquarius1 said:


> I call bull on this one. TONS of male friends.
> 
> It’s his wife that lacks boundaries, not every woman.


Do you go out partying with your guy friends?


----------



## Chaparral

Just my opinion. To late for investigations. I would take her phone and have it professionally analyzed. The only way I would not divorce at this point is if she passed a polygraph. No excuses, no reasons. I would also immediately call his wife.


----------



## jsmart

Chaparral said:


> Just my opinion. To late for investigations. I would take her phone and have it professionally analyzed. The only way I would not divorce at this point is if she passed a polygraph. No excuses, no reasons. I would also immediately call his wife.


I totally agree. Every TAMer feels in their gut this is a sexual affair. There is no more time to waste. This has already gone on way to long. He should just tell her give me your phone and tell her he's taking it to get deleted messages and pics restored. I would also confront POS in person to put him on notice AFTER I spoke to his wife. 

There's way to much understanding and taking of high roads by BHs. Letting everyone get off leaves a deep sense of injustice that many men end up battling with sometimes all of their life. No, this guy is fracking with the mother of his kids. Yes, she's the one who made the vows to him but he respected her as a married mother, it would not have gone this far. 

I think the fact that he hasn't come back, means that he confronted last night. There's no way the guy can go on a "romantic" getaway with this on his mind. If he did go, everyone here knows she'd still be texting POS.


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## snerg

CubFanBearMan said:


> So I’m at a loss, do I bring up all these new concerns and risk a giant blowout that *results in her losing a lot of trust in me for again, invading her privacy,*


HAHAHAHA.

That's a good one.

There are *NO *secrets in marriage (except for the ones where you're getting your spouse a surprise)




CubFanBearMan said:


> In her defense, I really don’t think she is the *type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat*,


Inappropriate pictures to another man.
Long walks alone with him at work.

Please, enlighten me to your logic of her not being the type of woman to cheat or set herself up to cheat.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Marduk said:


> PS don’t tell her about the phone. She’ll make it about privacy.
> 
> Don’t make it about the underwear. She’ll make up some story about how she was getting his advice so she could look sexy for you, or she was helping him buy stuff for his wife or something.
> 
> Don’t make it about trust, because she’s already blown it.
> 
> Don’t make it about anything but her telling you the truth. Let silences be uncomfortable. Don’t listen to demands or threats. Let her walk away if she wants. Let her threaten divorce. My wife did all that and more before we got to the truth.
> 
> It is a sexual relationship even if they haven’t had sex yet. It’s an inappropriate relationship even if they haven’t made out yet. It’s her accountability to manage such things so it’s clear to everyone that it’s innocent - she hasn’t done that.
> 
> Make it all about her telling you what happened. If she admits about sending pics of her underwear, you know you’re beginning the path. But don’t let it end there, and don’t let it end with half truths.
> 
> Buckle up. This is going to get hard. And you’re going to have to take some risks here if you’re going to right this ship.


I'll add one thing to this great list. Do not let her turn this into what you have done wrong in the marriage. This comes later, but right now it is all about her inappropriate actions.


----------



## Diana7

Chaparral said:


> Get fonelab now and run it.
> 
> Then take a picture of your underwear and a baseball bat and send it to him with your wife’s phone.


That really made me laugh. :grin2:


----------



## Diana7

InMyPrime said:


> Because the next step is putting your women inside balaclavas...Just need to discuss what’s acceptable and what isn’t. And be professional. No opposite sex friendship rule is not going to stop anyone from cheating.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No thenext step is not putting women in balaclavas. Boundaries like this do indeed stop affairs by insuring that 2 people don't get too close and end up like the wife in this story. Many many affairs are not planned but happen because of two much one on one time between opposite sex friends/work colleagues. Too much sharing, too much emotional involvement.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> That really made me laugh. :grin2:


Depends on your take on guns in general, but, if you eliminate the bat insert Smith & Wesson, send it.

Many will say this opens up an intent for violence but hey it's only a picture. 

A little risky in today's PC climate, agreed.


----------



## Gabriel

The Middleman said:


> What I don’t understand is why so many men these days are accepting of the close opposite sex “friendships”, until they start seeing their wives send photos of their underwear to their male “friends”. No opposite sex friendships is the best rule.


Agree. This is a hot one for me, as I was badly burned by this myself.

Opposite sex friendships should be merely acquaintances, especially in a situation where it's someone you met AFTER you met your spouse. 

If you had an OSF prior to meeting your spouse, I don't think you need to drop the OSF completely, but spending a bunch of alone time or having private calls/text exchanges is no bueno.


----------



## Gabriel

aquarius1 said:


> I call bull on this one. TONS of male friends.
> 
> It’s his wife that lacks boundaries, not every woman.


Not everyone takes the candy out of the dish, but having a dish out is a bad move for someone with diabetes.

Maybe your marriage is super solid, but the instant (and most marriages are not perfect) there are any cracks, the presences of an OSF becomes extremely dangerous.

You can call BS, but this happened to me, and to tons of other people.


----------



## Tilted 1

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> You need to really listen to the seasoned posters on here.


And seasoned posters doesn't mean post count, it means the ones who walked or we're betrayed in someway or we're cheated on. Make no mistake alot of people sat idle and we're only strung along and the cost of their own personal character, and end being a less than human being. 

Please do the right thing for you but thinking and wishing it away doesn't work only action, and strength to go to the dark places and do the thing you don't want to do. Or believe the things are innocent and meaningless, that's just lying to yourself.


----------



## DoesItGetBetter?

I see a few best options to move forward, as you need more facts and cannot trust your wife: 

1) Set Voice Activated Recorders. 

2) Analyze computers/phones discretely if possible (FoneLab?). 

3) Hire PI.


----------



## SunCMars

We have said this many times.

We hope we are wrong about it being a 'likely' physical affair.

.........................................................................................

We feel it qualifies as an emotional affair.

.........................................................................................

Taking long walks together could be considered physical. Certainly, if hands are held, if hands touch each others backs and shoulders.

She has overstepped proper marital boundaries.
With those pictures of her bra and panties, she has done do...... severely.

Perception is reality for most people.

Uh, would she not be very upset if you sent another woman a picture of your underpants.
There is no innocent reason for doing this. None.


friends of THRD-


----------



## jsmart

CubFanBearMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your input, some really good suggestions. I know I came off as a bit unassertive, but I think that’s just because I’m still in that “I can’t believe this is happening to me mode”. All I can think about is my kids, and the worst case scenario of us divorcing and them having to grow up with divorced parents, one among whom cheated, just like I grew up. *I read all your responses today and sat in my work van behind a job that I was on and cried. Just a flood of emotion came over me. The sad thing is, we celebrate our 10 year wedding anniversary tomorrow *and we are leaving for a 3 day weekend together on Friday, a trip that she has been planning. So, I know that she’s still invested in our marriage, or at least she’s putting on a good act in front of me.
> 
> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


This post really got to me because I have had that exact type of wake up moment. I too have sat in my car balling at the thought 
of my family breaking up. Thinking to myself; After all we have built and went through, how could she betray not only me but the family like this. Interestingly, my dday was 2 months before our 10th anniversary.

It's easy to fall into paralysis and desperation but now is not the time to let fear take hold of you. You have to know that no matter D or R, you and your kids will be ok. 

Also it's imperative that you act boldly and decisively. You do NOT accept any blame for her actions. It's very common for a WW to turn to the old you didn't show me enough affection, or you didn't do XYZ. That's a smoke and mirrors to confuse you and make you doubt yourself. Also don't let her try to shame you for "invading her privacy" or being controlling.

When you confront, you have to make it clear as day that continued lying
will lead to divorce. Yes, that's right, DIVORCE. You tell her point blank, do you want to save the marriage and family or do you want to be a divorcee with young kids. It can't be a fake threats. you must be forceful and be ready to throw it all away. 

I, like most TAMers, have been on this and similar boards for years, reading 1000s of threads. So we have seen these things play out so many times and I can tell you for a fact that women do not respond to a weak man. If you let her twist this to you invading her privacy or that he's just a friend, then you're going to have additional d (discovery) days.

In TAM you have an invaluable resource to help guide you through this ordeal. This board is of way more value than going for marriage counseling. Most counselors will push for you to rug sweep the affair and work on the marriage. We have had MANY stories of counselors that actually go after the BH and play interference for the WW. Very rarely will you get a counselor that will hold the WW's feet to the fire.


----------



## Tilted 1

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Depends on your take on guns in general, but, if you eliminate the bat insert Smith & Wesson, send it.
> 
> Many will say this opens up an intent for violence but hey it's only a picture.
> 
> A little risky in today's PC climate, agreed.


But that is how our current issues the society has put men in a little box to behave themselves. I'm part caveman and all MARINE, the new wussified take on manhood sucks for those who think a little fair play in a like fashion is too much. It will show the other man, business is getting taken care of so there is no shadow of doubt. And this stops now!!!


----------



## Tilted 1

I agree he has confronted, and taken care of business. He is already a far ahead of her game and will do whatever it takes to shake her world back into focus to a straight path to a awaking that she will not ignore.


----------



## Yeswecan

We are here for you!


----------



## drifting on

Cubfanbearman

Cubs have been eliminated from postseason play, and you have as well. Sound harsh? It is, but I say this gently. Your wife has invested a lot of energy into this guy, energy that was to be yours exclusively. She has planned a three day vacation with you, but isn’t going with whom she’s in love with. I have no doubts she loves you, but that love has been reduced. Know this, and read this sentence over over, workplace affairs are very difficult to end. You have basically nothing, never will either, so in the scope of ending this affair, you have to go nuclear. It is the only shot you have.

I would do several things if I were you, and it’s what I should have done. First, you are at war, someone is invading your marriage, and that someone had his advances met with reciprocations from your wife. Understand you are your own country, being invaded by two others. Yep, you are now at war with your wife. Strategy is key, keep their advances at bay and come out firing hard. No prisoners, both get the same shots fired, and you do this on their home turf, the hospital. 

When you arrive at the hospital and then arrive at your wife’s department, you tell her you need to ask her a few questions. Why would she take photos of underwear and then text that photo to your coworker and point to the OM? Ask OM why he would need to be texted that photo? Ask your wife where the HR department is so you can report both. Ask your wife what possible reason he should be texted that photo again? Then turn and walk out. Put your phone on silent and do not answer any text or call from your wife. 

Next go home, pack a suitcase and place by the front door. Pack your wife’s belongings from your bedroom and place into another room. If no room is available then place them in the basement. Anywhere but where you sleep, she can return to the marital bed when she has ended her affair. When your wife comes home you tell her to leave for this trip early, and to invite OM so she has a good time. Do not say another word from that moment. Lock yourself in a room if possible or take your kids out somewhere. 

Next get a lawyers business card and divorce papers and leave them on the kitchen table for her to see. Say nothing if she asks, you communicate about kids only. Only word you say to your wife is divorce. Find a polygraph examiner in your area, schedule it. The night before the polygraph you tell your wife to call in sick, it will be fine as she is in education and not caring directly for patients. She has one chance to save this marriage, and she will do as you say or it’s divorce only. Take her to the polygraph, in the parking lot you tell her what your definition of cheating is. To remember that while answering questions. Tell her she can tell you know what happened, she will still take the polygraph and any future admissions will be divorce only. She has this one chance to come clean. 

Sorry you are here, but this type of affair can be hidden through work only. Only thing is, your wife is of below average intelligence as she used her phone for communication. She should have kept it to work only, thank her for being clueless about the communication. Good luck.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Listen to DO. He is the the man in how to address these situations. Women respect strength. Not passivity. I went Parris Island on my FWW, and let her have it. You need to do likewise.

Shock N Awe can do wonders. Trust me on that one. Been there done that sir. It works.


----------



## alte Dame

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Listen to DO. He is the the man in how to address these situations. Women respect strength. Not passivity. I went Parris Island on my FWW, and let her have it. You need to do likewise.


I agree that he needs to act strong. I don't think he can lose if he does that - either the WW comes back to the marriage and they start the hard work of reconciling, or he decides that he is done and he has his pride. One of the biggest regrets that BS's express after infidelity is that they groveled or were too afraid to stand up for themselves.


----------



## BluesPower

Marduk said:


> If it were guaranteed a physical affair, I’d be more inclined to go all magnum PI on her.
> 
> But it might not be - yet. In which case, it’s best to stop this thing right in its tracks before it goes physical. Then maybe there’s a shot at reconciliation.
> 
> Give this thing a week or two, and there might not be.


You know, they have worked together for 2 years. It is physical. I am almost 100% on that. He needs to hire a PI. Even then, they could be screwing and work in any of a hundred places. 

I think that ship has sailed though.


----------



## re16

He is either on the 3 day anniversary trip or confronted by now. Either way, stay strong Cubfan. The anniversary timing made this incredibly more difficult.


----------



## Stormguy2018

"No prisoners, both get the same shots fired, and you do this on their home turf, the hospital.

When you arrive at the hospital and then arrive at your wife’s department, you tell her you need to ask her a few questions. Why would she take photos of underwear and then text that photo to your coworker and point to the OM? Ask OM why he would need to be texted that photo? Ask your wife where the HR department is so you can report both. Ask your wife what possible reason he should be texted that photo again? Then turn and walk out. Put your phone on silent and do not answer any text or call from your wife."

This is an EXCELLENT idea!


----------



## The Middleman

If you ask me, 7 pages of TAM brutal honesty over less than 2 days may have been a little too much for @CubFanBearMan to handle at this stage of the game. He’s got a lot to digest.
@CubFanBearMan please let us know how you are doing.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Tilted 1 said:


> But that is how our current issues the society has put men in a little box to behave themselves. I'm part caveman and all MARINE, the new wussified take on manhood sucks for those who think a little fair play in a like fashion is too much. It will show the other man, business is getting taken care of so there is no shadow of doubt. And this stops now!!!


We're of the same opinion. Excellent to hear !!


----------



## aquarius1

Chaparral said:


> Do you go out partying with your guy friends?


I never said that I party with my male friends, and I don’t sleep with them either. I don’t discuss my marriage.it’s off limits

They are friends I’ve known since I was in grade school, before my life with my husband. They will remain my friends.

Non negotiable.


----------



## OutofRetirement

CubFanBearMan said:


> I agree that there’s at a very minimum, some sort of emotional affair going on. So, let’s assume for a second that find no further evidence on her phone of anything physical or anything more provocative than a picture of her underwear. If it’s just an emotional affair, where do I go from there?


*Your wife took a picture of her panties and bra on your marital bed and sent it to another guy. Then she deleted it from the thread.* This is what you can ACTUALLY assume: if she deleted one thing, she probably deleted other things. If she sent one inappropriate pic, she's probably sent a similar inappropriate text, or other pic.

*Your wife and some other guy text each other every morning Good Morning! and every night, Sweet Dreams!*

1 Did your wife ever send you a picture of her panties and bra, whether in her body or not?

2 Did you ever send anyone - parent, sibling, close friend, girlfriend, child - a message good morning and good night? Did you ever do that with a "friend"? In any of the other threads - her sister and you - get daily good morning or good night? Does your wife initiate the texts, or the other guy? Why do you think your wife and the other guy contact each other first thing and before going to bed? My opinion is that friends don't do this, only kids and sweethearts. It is a way of saying "I love you." I'm not saying you can't love your friend, but if you are doing that with a friend, then you'd be doing it with other friends, too, and sisters, etc.


----------



## faithfulman

aquarius1 said:


> I never said that I party with my male friends, and I don’t sleep with them either. I don’t discuss my marriage.it’s off limits
> 
> They are friends I’ve known since I was in grade school, before my life with my husband. They will remain my friends.
> 
> Non negotiable.


I'm gonna try not to threadjack...

It sounds like you have good boundaries with your male friends.

And it is possible to have male friends and not **** them!

But you should be aware, that at least some of your male friends, and probably more of them than you realize - if not the majority of them, probably want to bang you.

It's a guy thing.

Of course that doesn't mean you would ever go along with it, or that they will ever make that move, but that aspect of a male/female relationship, especially from the male side - is why many people, especially men, do not like their wives to have male friends.

Because male friends of women generally want to bang said women.

Dudes know this about other dudes.

P.S. There are of course exceptions. I have had a few casual female friends in my life, work buddies and the like, who I did not want to bang. Most of them lesbians (Though a couple of them, I mighta if they asked me to!) or women who were.. out of my age range if you get my drift, and finally, I guess there were a couple who I found in no way attractive for whatever reason.

But overall, if I am talking to a woman on a regular basis, there is some sexual tension - at least from my side!


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Depends on your take on guns in general, but, if you eliminate the bat insert Smith & Wesson, send it.
> 
> Many will say this opens up an intent for violence but hey it's only a picture.
> 
> A little risky in today's PC climate, agreed.


Well I hate guns and violence, but as you say its just a warning. :smile2:


----------



## [email protected]

CubFan, it's never "just an emotional affair!" It is betrayal!


----------



## aquarius1

faithfulman said:


> I'm gonna try not to threadjack...
> 
> It sounds like you have good boundaries with your male friends.
> 
> And it is possible to have male friends and not **** them!
> 
> But you should be aware, that at least some of your male friends, and probably more of them than you realize - if not the majority of them, probably want to bang you.
> 
> It's a guy thing.
> 
> Of course that doesn't mean you would ever go along with it, or that they will ever make that move, but that aspect of a male/female relationship, especially from the male side - is why many people, especially men, do not like their wives to have male friends.
> 
> Because male friends of women generally want to bang said women.
> 
> Dudes know this about other dudes.
> 
> P.S. There are of course exceptions. I have had a few casual female friends in my life, work buddies and the like, who I did not want to bang. Most of them lesbians (Though a couple of them, I mighta if they asked me to!) or women who were.. out of my age range if you get my drift, and finally, I guess there were a couple who I found in no way attractive for whatever reason.
> 
> But overall, if I am talking to a woman on a regular basis, there is some sexual tension - at least from my side!


Trust me. I am well aware of this. Had to end one or two friendships because they asked/crossed the line, I called them out on it and they refused to change their ways.
For CubFan, and lots of people, the problem is not the friendship per se but the amount of time you spend together. 
If it’s daily there is always a risk, as the human heart and brain bond chemically. Nature is tough to fight.

I wish for an update from CF. I hope he found answers.


----------



## drifting on

re16 said:


> He is either on the 3 day anniversary trip or confronted by now. Either way, stay strong Cubfan. The anniversary timing made this incredibly more difficult.




I read this and thought the same as you, but then it clicked that the anniversary timing came at the best possible time. I’m assuming this three day trip is just cub fan and his wife, if so then they have three days alone to discuss how to move forward without the kids seeing anything. Cub fans vacation was ruined by finding these texts, hers will be ruined by having to explain it all and decide if the marriage is of value to her. By that I mean if she decides to try to reconcile IF cub fan offers that choice. From his posts here he is concerned for his marriage, advice he received from many was that this is far past emotional and most definitely physical. At the very least I would visit OM at the hospital and loudly ask him why he is asking for bra and panty photos from a married woman while he is married. This will put OM in a backpedaling mode, then ask as if you knew the affair was physical some more damning questions. Mention the walks, the amount of texts, and ask why he doesn’t text his wife that much. Women stick together and will shame this punk for cheating on his wife. Hell, some may even reach out to her to divorce and take everything they can get. I’ve seen it happen to both nurses and doctors.


----------



## jsmart

You know we've had many BHs who are expecting for us to tell him it's all in his head and to castigate him for invading her privacy but when you instead get a unanimous chorus that this is much worse than you think, it can be jarring. 

I hope his absence is because he's busy confronting both of them and exposing to OM wife, HR, and her family and not that he ran to put his head in the sand from the rude awakening.

Cubs, if you're monitoring but are afraid to engage, please know that most on this board have been in your shoes and are dedicated to helping others navigate the hell you're going through. 

We know the fear of ending up with a broken family, the emasculating feeling that we were not enough for our wife, and the rage of being disrespected in such a personal way. Just know that the fear goes away once you take action, the emasculation goes away when you realize that this is about her not you, and the rage will settle when you start doling out consequences.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

OutofRetirement said:


> *Your wife took a picture of her panties and bra on your marital bed and sent it to another guy. Then she deleted it from the thread.* This is what you can ACTUALLY assume: if she deleted one thing, she probably deleted other things. If she sent one inappropriate pic, she's probably sent a similar inappropriate text, or other pic.
> 
> *Your wife and some other guy text each other every morning Good Morning! and every night, Sweet Dreams!*
> 
> 1 Did your wife ever send you a picture of her panties and bra, whether in her body or not?
> 
> 2 Did you ever send anyone - parent, sibling, close friend, girlfriend, child - a message good morning and good night? Did you ever do that with a "friend"? In any of the other threads - her sister and you - get daily good morning or good night? Does your wife initiate the texts, or the other guy? Why do you think your wife and the other guy contact each other first thing and before going to bed? My opinion is that friends don't do this, only kids and sweethearts. It is a way of saying "I love you." I'm not saying you can't love your friend, but if you are doing that with a friend, then you'd be doing it with other friends, too, and sisters, etc.


Spot on


----------



## drifting on

Cubfan 

I hope you are fully understanding of why confrontation in the workplace is so important for you to do. Being a nurse requires one to have a license, there are ethics they have to follow, they are considered to be professionals. How unprofessional would your wife and OM appear to their colleagues? How difficult would it be for them to return the next day? Sure, she might try to say you are crazy, but if you hold up an envelope saying what they messaged each other with it will be difficult to paint you as crazy. Mention how first thing in the morning and last thing at night is them texting. Mention how OM has wanted photos of your wife’s lingerie, you don’t have to say she wasn’t wearing them and on the bed. Paint your picture with a broad brush, mention how she said she wouldn’t leave anything damning on the phone for you to see. Paint her as a lovesick woman after her colleague and OM as after your wife. This is the kind of exposure you need to reveal, remember, it’s war, and you strike hard and fast to win. 

One thing all professionals protect with vigor is their reputations.


----------



## Music_Man

Nurse, aged 36, having a workplace affair? No...this thread isn't triggering at all for me 
@CubFanBearMan I was you, 7-8 years ago. Circumstances and my own stupidity led to me turning a blind eye at the most critical times, and it's taken years now to uncover what I believe to be the accurate truth. 

Don't screw around- there's a chance it hasn't gone physical, but that picture is incredibly damning. I'll be surprised if after 2 years of being in close proximity, the good morning and good night texts, and the underwear pics, that this isn't a full blown PA. I'm rooting the other way- I hope like hell that we're all wrong, but there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. 

Be strong- be prepared to lose your marriage if you want to save it. Pack a bag and get out of the house if you can- actions speak louder than words my friend and you need a little shock and awe to send your message. 

Above all, don't cower down and play the pick-me dance, or beg her to 'just love you and only you' or some other such nonsense. As others have said, a show of strength is key. 

This time is critical and you've gotten good advice. Take it to heart, put it into action!


----------



## Mr.Married

looks like he isn’t coming back .....


----------



## Tilted 1

He stated that he was going on a 3day mini trip for his 10 yes and was to start Friday morning. Maybe Monday morning we hear something.


----------



## mickybill

Tilted 1 said:


> He stated that he was going on a 3day mini trip for his 10 yes and was to start Friday morning. Maybe Monday morning we hear something.


Yeah I think he has some more on his mind right now, 10 year anv. and a trip. He can use some time away from us.


----------



## Stormguy2018

What mickybill said. I bet he's having the most unpleasant 10th wedding anniversary in history.


----------



## kalimata

Your wife is a nurse that works in education. So she probably works in a hospital or school. Neither of these workplaces are tolerant of sexual affairs among employees. 

Is he a manager? Does she report to him? Be careful about disclosing the affair to their employer. If you end up divorcing, it could put you on the hook for more alimony if she is unemployed. See a lawyer ASAP. 

Lay low until you get more evidence. VAR is the quickest. Once you have evidence you’ll need to decide if you want to save the marriage. If so then exposure is the best way to stop the affair. If not then simply file for divorce and walk away, no exposure needed. Will make for a quicker divorce process.


----------



## TDSC60

The thing that hit me (besides the texts and the picture) is the group dinners. How do you know that is actually what is happening? Are spouses ever invited? If you can track her location it would be good to see if she goes to a coworker's house of another location on those nights.


----------



## Malaise

TDSC60 said:


> The thing that hit me (besides the texts and the picture) is the group dinners. How do you know that is actually what is happening? Are spouses ever invited? If you can track her location it would be good to see if she goes to a coworker's house of another location on those nights.


That was my concern.


----------



## Music_Man

TDSC60 said:


> The thing that hit me (besides the texts and the picture) is the group dinners. How do you know that is actually what is happening? Are spouses ever invited? If you can track her location it would be good to see if she goes to a coworker's house of another location on those nights.


Major concerns here.


----------



## Robert22205

How was your 3 day get-a-way? Did she act distant, guard the phone or slip away to text in private?
Did she send anyone pics of her weekend?

Confronting prematurely will just drive them underground. 

Currently, you have just 1 underware pic plus a whole lot of opportunity to meet behind your back. 

You'll need more solid evidence to confront her on adultery. At a minimum you need to catch her in a lie about them being 'together' at an after work function or more evidence of sexting. And that would provide a basis to take her phone and have a pro recover all deleted texts and photos. 

Cheaters only admit to the evidence you have (just 1 pic) - which is her flirting. 

Since you mentioned that there's other male coworkers at the after work events (which she mysteriously never shows you pictures of), it may be she is more of a serial flirt (and not focused just on one guy). Just more reason to stay cool while you arrange to confirm what's going on.


----------



## Robert22205

Another suggestion: buy her a new phone (keep the old one and recover deleted data).


----------



## The Middleman

I think that @CubFanBearMan will most likely not return. Either he’s doing a big rug sweep, or his 10th anniversary weekend was a DDay, and he’s dealing with the fall out.


----------



## mickybill

The Middleman said:


> I think that @CubFanBearMan will most likely not return. Either he’s doing a big rug sweep, or his 10th anniversary weekend was a DDay, and he’s dealing with the fall out.


Probably was a big clusterfunk weekend and posting online not real high on his list of priorities as his M may be imploding.
Or he might have backed off.

We won't know until he pops up again.

Good luck to ya CubFan


----------



## Robert22205

Right now you're on the outside looking in. I suggest you change that.

Go on the offensive but keep smiling.

How about inviting the OM and his wife on a double date. Maybe his wife is suspicious too. His wife is your best ally so it's too your advantage to get to know her (and eventually share info). 

All four of you should be connected on FB and other social media.


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## syhoybenden

The OP hasn't even signed in and looked at his thread since he last posted a week ago


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## Gabriel

syhoybenden said:


> The OP hasn't even signed in and looked at his thread since he last posted a week ago


That is sometimes a sign of a fake thread. Not saying that's true here, but it's possible.


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## michzz

I just waded into 9 pages of postings. Sad situation for sure.

However, I have a different take on what the OP is to do.

1. Do not do anything to make her lose her job. This will be important during a divorce. She not having income will impact your own wallet regarding spousal support.

2. Consult with a divorce attorney even if you do not think you want a divorce. You need to do this without talking to your wife about it. Know your options!

3. Get tested for STIs. Your wife may have contracted one or more and exposed you to them. 

4. Start think strategical about your future with or without her in it.


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## Lila

I am closing this thread. OP has not been been since he posted this thread. 
@CubFanBearMan if you return, please contact one of the moderators and ask to have this thread re-opened.


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## CubFanBearMan

Hi all. I know some were concerned about my situation, so I just wanted to let you all know. I’m ok. My wife and I finally got into everything after our anniversary weekend, it all came out. Without sharing specifics, things were worse than I thought, but not as bad as it could have been. It never got to a physical affair, but had I not intervened when I did, it probably would have. It was a very intense emotional affair with some sexual activity via texting. Needless to say it’s been a very trying and hurtful couple of weeks, but we’ve talked for countless hours and have begun to connect again. We just started marriage counseling and healing this fracture in our marriage. I know it’s going to take time to regain the trust. But with what I know from her, and what she’s shown me, I believe that we are going to come out of this stronger than we ever have been. I’m not sure if I’ll come back to post here or not, I read a lot of the earlier responses a couple days ago when we were having a good days and they brought back some really tough feelings. I feel like she’s truly sorry and devastated by what she did. And I can see her commitment to me. I also have a lot of work to do in this marriage. My neglect of her in the past few years is not a justification for her actions by any means, there is no justification for that, and she’s told me as much. But I do need to be a better husband, and that’s what we hope to accomplish. 

Thanks to everyone for their concern.


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## Andy1001

You caught her, hopefully in time. Don’t be fooling yourself that this was anything other than cheating. If you hadn’t caught her it would still be going on.


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## Marduk

Best of luck, man.

My only advice is to try to keep an even keel about things and always trust your gut. I hope it works out.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Good luck. I see you blame your neglect still...

Just be prepared.


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## TDSC60

Have you contacted OM's wife? She has a right to know what was going on.

Will they continue to work together?

Sounds like she admitted to a lot, but remember, cheaters lie....a lot. 

Good luck.


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## jsmart

CubFanBearMan said:


> Hi all. I know some were concerned about my situation, so I just wanted to let you all know. I’m ok. My wife and I finally got into everything after our anniversary weekend, it all came out. Without sharing specifics, things were worse than I thought, but not as bad as it could have been. *It never got to a physical affair*, but had I not intervened when I did, it probably would have. *It was a very intense emotional affair with some sexual activity via texting*. Needless to say it’s been a very trying and hurtful couple of weeks, but we’ve talked for countless hours and have begun to connect again. We just started marriage counseling and healing this fracture in our marriage. I know it’s going to take time to regain the trust. *But with what I know from her, and what she’s shown me,* I believe that we are going to come out of this stronger than we ever have been. I’m not sure if I’ll come back to post here or not, I read a lot of the earlier responses a couple days ago when we were having a good days and they brought back some really tough feelings. I feel like she’s truly sorry and devastated by what she did. And I can see her commitment to me. I also have a lot of work to do in this marriage. My neglect of her in the past few years is not a justification for her actions by any means, there is no justification for that, and she’s told me as much. But I do need to be a better husband, and that’s what we hope to accomplish.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their concern.


They've been working closely together for 2 years, including dinners that supposedly had other co-workers (roll eyes) and there's sexting but you think you got to it before it became physical? Wow, dude. I really hope for your sake that you're one of the few outliers but the circumstances make that very unlikely. 

I would get all of the deleted text restored. You can run a restoral app to get deleted PICS, text. I hope you have access to all of her devices. Do not cave to any of the you're controlling trope that waywards throw out.

BTW: They can't continue to work together after crossing the line. Also you better engage the OM's wife. You need an ally in this battle. I bet she won't buy the story you're believing.


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## farsidejunky

Given your penchant for self blame in her actions, I would argue that your choice to leave TAM will be detrimental to your recovery. 

There are many folks here who can help you in evaluating whether or not her remorse, and the subsequent recovery, is genuine. 

Tread carefully, my friend. Your battle is just beginning. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Good luck, Given your take on this I'm afraid you will be back here in a few years.


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## DudeInProgress

CFBM,

I really hope you’re right, that you caught this before it went physical. It is certainly possible that is the case, but it’s not the most likely scenario. You need to be sure the full extent and truth of what you’re dealing with. Even if it didn’t go physical, there’s no way you really have all the details at this point. Cheaters (and most everyone else) will always downplay, minimize or omit difficult details. You can NOT trust what she says at this point! You need to keep digging. 

1. Have her create a detailed written timeline with dates and details. Even if she doesn’t know all the exact dates, she absolutely remembers the details of their interactions and can approximate the dates. Be very clear with her that this is a requirement for moving forward and that any omissions, lies or misrepresentations will result in you moving forward with D. Let her know that you’re setting up a polygraph to confirm the details in her timeline. 
2. Follow through with the poly.
3. She sends OM a NC letter, approved by you.
4. They cannot continue to work together, period. Make a plan for that and make it happen.
5. Contact the OMW and tell her what has been going on, that at the very least there has been an inappropriate emotional relationship.
If you’re right that it didn’t go physical and your W is remorseful and willing to do the work to rebuild trust , you may have a good chance at recovering your marriage...but you have to act with strength and decisiveness. And continue to leverage this community for support, you’re going to need it for a while longer, which ever way this ends up.

Good luck


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## Marc878

farsidejunky said:


> Given your penchant for self blame in her actions, I would argue that your choice to leave TAM will be detrimental to your recovery.
> 
> There are many folks here who can help you in evaluating whether or not her remorse, and the subsequent recovery, is genuine.
> 
> Tread carefully, my friend. Your battle is just beginning.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yep, rugsweep at your peril. False R's and repeats are common in these situations.


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## Robert22205

Experience shows that if they still work together (or even see each other from across the parking lot), then psychologically the affair continues.
You need to insist on absolutely NC, including changing her place of employment.

Truly there are no exceptions to the above.

Notify the OBS without warning the OM or your wife. 

If you wife is opposed to notifying the OBS (i.e., she's protecting the OM), then that's a red flag that there's still a deep emotional connection.

Good luck.


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## Lostinthought61

Make sure it did not go underground


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## Tilted 1

CubFanBearMan said:


> Hi all. I know some were concerned about my situation, so I just wanted to let you all know. I’m ok. My wife and I finally got into everything after our anniversary weekend, it all came out. Without sharing specifics, things were worse than I thought, but not as bad as it could have been. It never got to a physical affair, but had I not intervened when I did, it probably would have. It was a very intense emotional affair with some sexual activity via texting. Needless to say it’s been a very trying and hurtful couple of weeks, but we’ve talked for countless hours and have begun to connect again. We just started marriage counseling and healing this fracture in our marriage. I know it’s going to take time to regain the trust. But with what I know from her, and what she’s shown me, I believe that we are going to come out of this stronger than we ever have been. I’m not sure if I’ll come back to post here or not, I read a lot of the earlier responses a couple days ago when we were having a good days and they brought back some really tough feelings. I feel like she’s truly sorry and devastated by what she did. And I can see her commitment to me. I also have a lot of work to do in this marriage. My neglect of her in the past few years is not a justification for her actions by any means, there is no justification for that, and she’s told me as much. But I do need to be a better husband, and that’s what we hope to accomplish.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their concern.


Think about this, if you had not come here you would be facing the other. If you choose not to return then everything will unfold differently than you expect it too. The advice here is strong and to the point for your benefit.


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## TAMAT

CFBM,

After my W had an affair with OM1 she continued to work with him and it wore on me every time she went to work.

At that time I didn't understand the addictive nature of affairs, yet my gut went off all the time, it felt like an unseen force in my life.

I strongly suggest you polygraph now and don't waste years or decades of your life with a woman who remains in love with someone else and has no true romantic feeling for you.


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## drifting on

Cub fan

I got a bad feeling here.......


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## re16

Cubsbearfan,

I do hope you come back. I know its hard to re-hash some of the emotions, but that is part of the healing process. If it hurts, it is because something is there and not yet fully addressed. Also, you can't heal until you fully know what you are healing from.

I know this because I rugswept a situation a long time a go. It will continue to come up if you don't fully deal with it. It will cause more pain in the long run if you try to bury it than pushing through it now.

You should put your flack jacket on and answer questions, they are all intended to help you work through exactly what happened, and then how to heal from it.


RE


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## Tron

drifting on said:


> Cub fan
> 
> I got a bad feeling here.......


Yep.

How did you find out about everything? Because she told you? Or because you dug everything up?

There are apps on phones that hide this kind of stuff. And just in case you didn't know...cheaters lie.


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## aquarius1

Hoping that this works out for you. But please stay on your guard. There are many people here with a LOT of experience who can advise you.

If you have to return for sad reasons we will be here to support you.


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## scaredlion

Something that spouses in your situation fail to comprehend. You are correct that there is no justification for her actions. But also, there is no justification for you neglecting your wife, not providing for her emotional needs and failing to communicate effectively with her. Almost everyone, especially BS's, tend to place all the blame on the WS, when by their actions, the BS has been laying the groundwork for what follows. I have read many times where a BS will say that the marriage problems are 50% theirs and 50% the WS but the affair is 100% on the WS. When in actuality, the marriage problems are 75% on the BS and 25% on the WS and the affair is 100% on the WS. In many situations the groundwork for an affair is laid out way before the affair even begins. Just my 2 cents. I do wish you well.


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## Malaise

We'll leave a light on for you.


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## Malaise

drifting on said:


> Cub fan
> 
> I got a bad feeling here.......


Yep.

Another one remorseful because she got caught. That doesn't earn any points.


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## The Middleman

sokillme said:


> Good luck, Given your take on this I'm afraid you will be back here in a few years.


Sooner.


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## Gabriel

Maybe she is sorry she took the step she did, but if she is still working with this guy, the feelings will always be there and the danger will be ever present.

One of them needs to switch departments or change jobs, or this WILL rear its ugly head again. 

Bet on it.

Emotional affairs are much harder to break than physical ones. As long as they are working together they will exchange knowing glances and her heart will flutter. All it will take is one little fight at home and she will be back in the affair. This is a MAJOR violation of your relationship and it warrants more than "I'm sorry and feel awful about it". It warrants strong action like a transfer request or a resignation letter.


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## Dragan Jovanovic

Good luck man,you are definitly going to need it!!!


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## alte Dame

Rugsweeping 101.


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## AKA Broken Arrow

Former WH here. I feel the need to reply to your post to provide you with another POV. Early on in my EA with my AP (who I worked with) my wife sensed that something was brewing between us. She eventually confronted me and I looked her in the eyes and said "there's nothing going on, I would never do that to you" so she backed off. In reality, it only made me want my AP more and since my wife was no longer suspicious, I gave myself the green light to proceed further. We weren't sexting at that point (we never did, not my thing) but I was in way too deep by then. Texting all day, good mornings and good nights, sharing feelings. 

A few months later, it turned physical and the rest is history. I'm not saying your wife will react in the same manner that I did but I'm only posting this as a warning to stay vigilant. And someone needs to leave their job as everyone that said this is going to continue while they're working together is right.


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## Tilted 1

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> Former WH here. I feel the need to reply to your post to provide you with another POV. Early on in my EA with my AP (who I worked with) my wife sensed that something was brewing between us. She eventually confronted me and I looked her in the eyes and said "there's nothing going on, I would never do that to you" so she backed off. In reality, it only made me want my AP more and since my wife was no longer suspicious, I gave myself the green light to proceed further. We weren't sexting at that point (we never did, not my thing) but I was in way too deep by then. Texting all day, good mornings and good nights, sharing feelings.
> 
> A few months later, it turned physical and the rest is history. I'm not saying your wife will react in the same manner that I did but I'm only posting this as a warning to stay vigilant. And someone needs to leave their job as everyone that said this is going to continue while they're working together is right.


Listen to a voice of reason, and experience. Trust your gut.


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## Music_Man

OP- you have no idea the level of advice and support you've been given. Please PLEASE take heed. Bury your head in the sand at your peril.


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## drifting on

Cub fan

I’m hoping that your wife is telling you the truth, but sadly I don’t think she is. She already told you she wouldn’t leave anything on her phone incriminating, but she overlooked the lingerie photo. So there’s a lie right there. I have a feeling the affair is in one of two places, either it’s over or it’s still ramping up. If it’s over, so be it, if it’s ramping up, so be it, I feel this is the attitude you have. Schedule a polygraph, don’t tell her, and take her too it. You will most likely get a parking lot confession, but with what she has already done you should demand that this be a must. You must be in the position to lose your marriage to save it. This is also working on yourself, that you will be stronger and and more vulnerable at the same time. I don’t see any way forward, I feel as if you are in a lose lose situation unless you demand for specific changes from your wife.


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## AKA Broken Arrow

What was her explanation for the lingerie/underwear pic anyway? I forgot about that.


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## drifting on

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> What was her explanation for the lingerie/underwear pic anyway? I forgot about that.




Whatever the reason, it can’t fully be explained without being brutally honest. That explanation would be, I wanted OM to stare at me all day envisioning how my body must look wearing this. I wanted OM to stare at me lustily the entire day. Any other reason your wife gave is better known as bull****.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

farsidejunky said:


> Given your penchant for self blame in her actions, I would argue that your choice to leave TAM will be detrimental to your recovery.
> 
> There are many folks here who can help you in evaluating whether or not her remorse, and the subsequent recovery, is genuine. ,
> 
> Tread carefully, my friend. Your battle is just beginning.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


CubsFan, Listen to FJ. I tried to wean myself off of TAM as I thought I was tough. Where you are at now is a difficult spot.
And it is likely to be tough on you moving through R as I found out. I am a guy used to instant results. R is not something you get an instant result from. R is a work in process and will be for the next few years.

I am going on four years of R, and probably would not have made it without being able to vent here and receive some good advice. Like you, I initially blamed myself, however, through IC and the folks on here it became crystal clear it was 100% her doing. I was told the problems in our marriage were 50% mine, the problem with her cheating was 100% on her.

THe only word of advice I am going to give you is do not let her pin any of this on you. It is hers to own, and it is up to her to make things right with you.

I will encourage you to read two books, “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, and “Grow a Pair” by Larry Winget. If you absorb the content of these fine books, you will find it beneficial to you.

Good luck. You are not out of the woods yet sir. Listen to Drifting On. He is right. I, too, think this went physical.
If I were you, I would consider a polygraph.


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## Gabriel

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> CubsFan, Listen to FJ. I tried to wean myself off of TAM as I thought I was tough. Where you are at now is a difficult spot.
> And it is likely to be tough on you moving through R as I found out. I am a guy used to instant results. R is not something you get an instant result from. R is a work in process and will be for the next few years.
> 
> I am going on four years of R, and probably would not have made it without being able to vent here and receive some good advice. Like you, I initially blamed myself, however, through IC and the folks on here it became crystal clear it was 100% her doing. I was told the problems in our marriage were 50% mine, the problem with her cheating was 100% on her.
> 
> THe only word of advice I am going to give you is do not let her pin any of this on you. It is hers to own, and it is up to her to make things right with you.
> 
> I will encourage you to read two books, “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, and “Grow a Pair” by Larry Winget. If you absorb the content of these fine books, you will find it beneficial to you.
> 
> Good luck. You are not out of the woods yet sir. Listen to Drifting On. He is right. I, too, think this went physical.
> If I were you, I would consider a polygraph.


100% agree.

The advice on TAM can feel really insulting and brutal. But it's only because we've been here. Go to my account and check out my original thread. Reads very similar to your situation. I had to swallow a lot of pride, admit I was wrong about stuff, and realize that until I got TOUGH with my wife I was toast. 

I was super afraid of losing her, afraid of her anger and as long as I was thinking that way I was losing everything.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

“I have been caught by her 2 other times looking through her phone, I was just curious about the things she talks about, which I know, is a complete invasion of privacy, and I was wrong for that.”

No you are not. The only privacy is in the bathroom. Phone attachment RED FLAG. Really? Come on man. Get real. She is pulling the wool over your eyes.

“ In her defense, I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat, but I see the “flirting” that she may not think is flirting, just being friendly, and maybe he takes it as more than it is and tries something with her. “

I thought the same on to be proven wrong. You are trying to explain away her actions. She is pissed you now have knowledge of her attachment to POSOM. Wake up sir! 

“It was a very intense emotional affair with some sexual activity via texting. Needless to say it’s been a very trying and hurtful couple of weeks, but we’ve talked for countless hours and have begun to connect again. We just started marriage counseling and healing this fracture in our marriage. I know it’s going to take time to regain the trust. “

EA +PP ( physical proximity)= PA. I am glad it is going to take you a while to trust her. As I advised earlier, tell her she is going to have to take a polygraph.If she refuses you have your answer.

You need to hold your wife’s feet to the fire. You are afraid to take action. Scared, thinking the worst will happen. You will not get anywhere with your fear to act in a bold manner. This is your marriage you are going to have to fight for. You will need to show strength not weakness. Women respect strength, weakness turns them off. 

I would also have a hombre to hombre with POSOM and let him know to stay the hell away from your wife. If it was me, I would sit him down and put the fear of god in him. With my FWW I demonstrated anger and strength.....I am going on 4 years of R. Had I been passive, likely our marriage would have ended.

I am ordering you not to rugsweep. PM me if you desire my advice on a course of action.


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## Marc878

He'll probably have to learn the hard way if at all


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## Music_Man

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> “I have been caught by her 2 other times looking through her phone, I was just curious about the things she talks about, which I know, is a complete invasion of privacy, and I was wrong for that.”
> 
> 
> 
> No you are not. The only privacy is in the bathroom. Phone attachment RED FLAG. Really? Come on man. Get real. She is pulling the wool over your eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> “ In her defense, I really don’t think she is the type of woman that would cheat or set herself on a path to cheat, but I see the “flirting” that she may not think is flirting, just being friendly, and maybe he takes it as more than it is and tries something with her. “
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the same on to be proven wrong. You are trying to explain away her actions. She is pissed you now have knowledge of her attachment to POSOM. Wake up sir!
> 
> 
> 
> “It was a very intense emotional affair with some sexual activity via texting. Needless to say it’s been a very trying and hurtful couple of weeks, but we’ve talked for countless hours and have begun to connect again. We just started marriage counseling and healing this fracture in our marriage. I know it’s going to take time to regain the trust. “
> 
> 
> 
> EA +PP ( physical proximity)= PA. I am glad it is going to take you a while to trust her. As I advised earlier, tell her she is going to have to take a polygraph.If she refuses you have your answer.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to hold your wife’s feet to the fire. You are afraid to take action. Scared, thinking the worst will happen. You will not get anywhere with your fear to act in a bold manner. This is your marriage you are going to have to fight for. You will need to show strength not weakness. Women respect strength, weakness turns them off.
> 
> 
> 
> I would also have a hombre to hombre with POSOM and let him know to stay the hell away from your wife. If it was me, I would sit him down and put the fear of god in him. With my FWW I demonstrated anger and strength.....I am going on 4 years of R. Had I been passive, likely our marriage would have ended.
> 
> 
> 
> I am ordering you not to rugsweep. PM me if you desire my advice on a course of action.


So much truth here. OP- listen to NLLH, talk to him offline if you can. He put a plan into action that worked wonders. 

Bottom line- if you want to save your marriage, you had better be prepared to lose it. Showing weakness will lead to more pain. Believe it. Time to stop believing that your little princess isn't capable of such things. Believe me and others like me- she's not only capable, she's actually doing those things. We all see it. Hopefully you will too before it's too late.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Marc878 said:


> He'll probably have to learn the hard way if at all


Sadly, I think OP is scared of his own shadow I hope I am wrong.


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## sokillme

I feel a post two years from now -

_Hi I'm back, I am sorry to say you all were right. After I left I let it alone and everything was good for a while but then I found out what was really going on. She has been cheating on me off and on the whole time. She said she was sorry and cried a lot and begged me to make it work but then two months later I caught her again with her OM and now I am done with her. I just can't believe that she would do this._

Guess we will see or not.


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## Lila

Considering the OP has posted 3 times in a thread with 166 total posts, I'm closing this thread. 

OP, if or when you return, message one of the moderators and we'll re-open your thread.


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