# ~6 months in to "R"



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm not consistently viewing these forums - which might make me a selfish ass - so if anyone needs a refresher on my story, it is in my thread history.

Short version: Found pics on phone last July, confronted like an idiot immediately, she claimed EA (liar), we start MC, she keeps affair going until I confront her with more evidence in October, she admits to A, I leave for a weekend, we decide to give R a chance, eventually I get tired of MC because he's not helping me make progress (~februaryish), we continue doing our thing...

Since then...

We have decided to relocate for a few reasons, but mostly because I don't want to be in this defiled house any longer. We put the house up for sale about 2 months ago and we got it under contract about 6 weeks after listing. She traveled with me on a business training trip for a week and took non paid time off to do so. We are moving in about a month.

As far as our marriage/R goes we haven't really changed much. I'm not sure there were any real consequences for her outside of ending the affair (which I'm quite confident is over now). We spend a decent amount of time hanging out together, but we don't seem to talk about anything real or important 99% of the time when I know there are things we are both thinking. I've been realizing more and more, lately, that I prefer to ignore and distract myself instead of facing the reality of the situation.

I feel like I am afraid to rock the boat right now with all of the transitions going on (new place, new area, new job for her) and being busy at work. We seem to avoid all topics that could potentially be iffy/uncomfortable. Our "plan" after quitting MC was to work through the Torn Asunder workbook together. We have done this for about 2 months and have recently not made much progress with all of the house crap and travel demanding time.

I see a few problems:

1. I prefer not to rock the boat and/or upset her by talking about our relationship realistically right now. I've tried to be reasonable and "give it time" and make sure I'm not rushing in to any decisions that I might regret for the rest of my life - and keep her calm through the house sale and move. I'm not sure what to tell her or how to make feasible metrics for identifying progress. I feel like it has been more of the same with her not taking full ownership of this. I've seen her "change" a bit, but not in any discernable way outside of a little more interest in me. Overall patterns aren't really much different. We don't treat each other much differently. Our communication didn't magically change. I guess I trust her a bit more than 6 months ago, but I have no compelling reason to think that it couldn't happen again. I am finding myself not as attracted to her.

2. She seems to think (or at least not communicate otherwise) everything is ok and progressing as it should.

My plan is to move, get settled and give the situation a few months to level out. I plan on re-evaluating in August or so. I think I need to abandon this idea I have that time will help my vision.

If I looked at my time between affair and now as "dating", there's no way I would choose to be married. Is that a fair way to look at it? I need someone objective to tell me I am going crazy.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I am in 7 months after Dday... tried R, but my gut wouldn't let me do it.. So now we are separated. 



You are not crazy for trying to get through all your transition before making a major decision on your marriage... That's why I got through all the holidays, and my major surgery before deciding anything definite. Gotta have a (somewhat) clear head for it. Wish you the best...


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Six months is a relatively short time after a betrayal like this to expect full recovery. Likely it will take many more months or perhaps years to fully recover. But you have made progress. She has ended the A and trust is starting to build. But I warn you absolute and complete trust will likely have an asterisk next to it for the remainder of the marriage. Workable but not the same. 

She has not taken responsibility so I assume she's not shown the kind of remorse you are seeking for closure. She will be content to leave it behind her unless you express to her that you need to further discuss and get it behind *you*. Don't be afraid to "rock the boat". If you don't get closure it will fester and sooner or later resentment will get the best of you.

Don't settle back into about "where we were before", look at the results of that. You will need to discuss what each of you wants in the relationship and find strategies to get there. Whether it's increase intimacy, better communication, spending quality time together. Don't rug sweep and hope it stays in the past, make sure the two of you put it in the past.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I know things are diiferent for everyone but the MC is the only way we have the tough talks about the A and our Marriage. Most of the time we talk about unimportant things or our kids to avoid the tough talks.

If the MC you were in was not helping how about trying a new MC?

I want to R with my wife but I am still not sure if I can get past everything. I am in the same boat time wise our D day was July 8th


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You are both rug sweeping and the longer you do it the harder it will be to quit. You will establish a comfort zone - however uncomfortable it is - with this pile of issues under the rug. The real problem is that the pile of problems under the rug wants to come out and be dealt with and every day it's not it gets bigger, stronger and meaner - and correspondingly harder to deal with. You are creating a vicious circle that ends with an explosion.

You need to deal with these issues now - while you are still out of your comfort zones. I agree with not making any sudden decisions but you have to start to talk about them. Once the crisis abates and something resembling level flight is reestablished it gets harder and harder to have these tough conversations every day. 

Bite the bullet and start the conversations before it gets any harder.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Are you sure you're in True R or merely rugsweeping this until a later time. Don't let the resentment start to build up because it seems like you're starting to feel it. She basically got little to no consequences from the affair, basically she got off scott free while you have to deal with the emotions of betrayal. And she would prefer you not rock the boat obviously. 

It doesn't matter if you and her have all these things going on if you're not working on the marriage. Remember the table? If she's truly remorseful, she would be compassionate to you for the pain that she caused and you would not be afraid of rocking the boat.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Six months out. Tried R after Dday. It seemed to be successful. My cheater husband gave no indication otherwise. Wasn't really doing much heavy lifting though and I agree the MCs didn't seem to put any consequence on him.

Found out he was getting lap dances at a local topless bar. He didn't confess, he got outed by the same anonymous person who outed his affair to me.

To me that is financial infidelity as well as emotional. 

Separated and filed for divorce one week ago


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


>


1. NC is in effect and hasn't been broken to my knowledge. She sent a letter.

2. Somewhat questionable from my perspective

3. She has done everything I've asked. I found her "bonus" email account after dday, but she told me it existed and couldn't remember the login. There consistency of her email conversations->texts conversations over time was good. I have no reason to believe that she is hiding anything from me with that email address.

4. I don't think she is lying to me anymore. She's just not saying much. 

I'm not sure we are in true R - nope. Seems like cruise control.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> You are both rug sweeping and the longer you do it the harder it will be to quit. You will establish a comfort zone - however uncomfortable it is - with this pile of issues under the rug. The real problem is that the pile of problems under the rug wants to come out and be dealt with and every day it's not it gets bigger, stronger and meaner - and correspondingly harder to deal with. You are creating a vicious circle that ends with an explosion.
> 
> You need to deal with these issues now - while you are still out of your comfort zones. I agree with not making any sudden decisions but you have to start to talk about them. Once the crisis abates and something resembling level flight is reestablished it gets harder and harder to have these tough conversations every day.
> 
> Bite the bullet and start the conversations before it gets any harder.


So you would rock the boat in the midst of closing/inspection/appraisal and relocating to another state? I know some tough conversations have to occur. Timing is key.

The potential for explosion is real - I don't discount that for a second.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you actually monitoring her emails or just taking her word for it?

I would support waiting for you to take care of the financial side first before jumping the gun.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> So you would rock the boat in the midst of closing/inspection/appraisal and relocating to another state? I know some tough conversations have to occur. Timing is key.
> 
> The potential for explosion is real - I don't discount that for a second.


There is no "good time" to have these conversation and ultimately they are more important than closing on a house - if they blow up a house deal -I guess the deal just wasn't supposed to be. Timing is key - the sooner you start the better because the longer you wait the harder and more difficult it will be.

It's a wound. The sooner you get in there an clean it out the less it hurts. If you have to open it back up and clean out what has become an infection it is sooooooo much worse than if you had just done what needed to be done in the first place.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

keko said:


> Are you actually monitoring her emails or just taking her word for it?
> 
> I would support waiting for you to take care of the financial side first before jumping the gun.


I've checked her stuff every once in a while. I was pretty consistent with it and then I just got tired of keeping up with it. I stayed in touch with OM's GF.

Big transitions + important potentially life altering conversations don't mix well in my marital experience thus far.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Big transistions + serious, potentially life altering, un-dealt with, avoided issues mix worse. 

Seriously - if there is bad news at the end of those conversations the sooner you get to it the better. You're there, you know if you are talking about a delay of days, weeks or months. If your talking days to let movers do their thing - then yeah ok. If you're talking weeks to just get past the stress of moving - well I can see that to. But if you're talking months - IMO you're just avoiding.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Big transistions + serious, potentially life altering, un-dealt with, avoided issues mix worse.
> 
> Seriously - if there is bad news at the end of those conversations the sooner you get to it the better. You're there, you know if you are talking about a delay of days, weeks or months. If your talking days to let movers do their thing - then yeah ok. If you're talking weeks to just get past the stress of moving - well I can see that to. But if you're talking months - IMO you're just avoiding.


We are packing starting today - we move our crap in a few weeks.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I can see a few weeks as the stress of moving could make the conversations even more emotional than they will be on their own - and they won't need any help in the emotion department. Given that what I would say is don't take that deep breath after you unpack on the other end. Once the move is done, jump in.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Hello - my name is Ingalls and I'm a rug sweeper!

Its easier to wait and feel the right timing and deal when there aren't so many other important events going on. My scenario is parallel to yours just different things. Like sig said it will hurt us much later to deal with the wounds if you have to re-open them later. You will have to decide and weigh which is worse: chancing your house deal falling through or hurt being worse and more painful later?

To answer your Q- no you are not in real R. That will begin when you face the demons. Good luck. I hope you update us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't think you should've moved until you were certain with what you want ultimately.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I don't think you should've moved until you were certain with what you want ultimately.


Maybe so - it certainly created more drama than I want. That decision has been made, however.

At least the house isn't something to deal with if we end up splitting.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

You're moving into a rent/lease?


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

keko said:


> You're moving into a rent/lease?


Rental, yep.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

RAndom, IMO, you desrve better than what this woman is capable of providing. She is remorseless and that says it all.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

randomguy123 said:


> Rental, yep.


Good. Make sure to protect yourself from signing into large debt before you can confirm she is remorseful and you want R. In the mean time start stashing cash incase things turn ugly quick.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

randomguy123 said:


> 4.* I don't think she is lying to me anymore. She's just not saying much. *
> 
> I'm not sure we are in true R - nope. Seems like cruise control.


Sounds like she's lying by omission.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> Maybe so - it certainly created more drama than I want. That decision has been made, however.
> 
> At least the house isn't something to deal with if we end up splitting.


I guess your biggest problem now is avoidance. I think there should be a fine line between "not rocking the boat" and appearing too passive/doormat-ish. As you said, she hasn't faced any real consequences for her actions and thinks everything is normal. Had she been doing the heavy lifting to reconnect with you, then yes I'd agree, let things cool for a bit. But you have to question yourself as to whether she deserves this privilege if nothing has really changed? There's definitely respect issue here that needs to be addressed.

You need to be both assertive and realistic as to where the both of you stand and make it clear to her that everything certainly isn't "normal". The indication that you're falling out of love with her should be a massive red flag.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I guess your biggest problem now is avoidance. I think there should be a fine line between "not rocking the boat" and appearing too passive/doormat-ish. As you said, she hasn't faced any real consequences for her actions and thinks everything is normal. Had she been doing the heavy lifting to reconnect with you, then yes I'd agree, let things cool for a bit. But you have to question yourself as to whether she deserves this privilege if nothing has really changed?
> 
> You need to be both assertive and realistic as to where the both of you stand and make it clear to her that everything certainly isn't "normal". The indication that you're falling out of love with her should be a massive red flag.


I certainly question myself. I know I need to throw a flag up, but when and how high I raise it is tough.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I hit the paranoia stage at 6 months

took a lot of work by my wife to get me through that stage
in some ways I think I was worse than immediately post dday


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Hi RG sorry you are here I agree that MC is probably the best for solving these types of issues. I would suggest that you find a councillor -sp that has experience with marriage issues. In june it will be 2 yrs for me and my wife I had an affair and she had a revenge affair after i got honest with her anyway we went to MC and worked through our issues and I am glad that we did and both hung in their our M today is great and I love my wife dearly we have been married for 13 yrs as of june of this year hang in there


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I certainly question myself. I know I need to throw a flag up, but when and how high I raise it is tough.


The dynamics have changed randomguy, it's not about her anymore. After her betrayal your feelings are paramount in the relationship and she has to accept that as a consequence of her actions. Whatever you do, do not bottle up and make her think you're "grateful" she stopped the affair. She has to face consequences. Subconsciously she will validate her blamshifting by your passivity. She has to know you have self respect and the world doesn't revolve around her feelings.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I can see a few weeks as the stress of moving could make the conversations even more emotional than they will be on their own - and they won't need any help in the emotion department. Given that what I would say is don't take that deep breath after you unpack on the other end. Once the move is done, jump in.


The problem I see is that there is always a reason (good or otherwise) to put off this talk. First it is the move. Next will be settling into the new living space, then figuring out the new job, then something else. None are necessarily bad, just that punting it down the road becomes the norm. 

The way I figure it, there is lots of time together while packing and unpacking boxes to talk about this stuff.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> As far as our marriage/R goes we haven't really changed much. I'm not sure there were any real consequences for her outside of ending the affair (which I'm quite confident is over now). We spend a decent amount of time hanging out together, but we don't seem to talk about anything real or important 99% of the time when I know there are things we are both thinking. I've been realizing more and more, lately, that I prefer to ignore and distract myself instead of facing the reality of the situation.


Two notes: #1 if nothing changes, then nothing will change. In order for there to be a recovery, some things need to change, but in order for those things to change, BOTH of you need to do something different now. If you're just doing the "same ol' thing" then having Time go by isn't going to magically change things! You have to change things to change things...seriously!

#2 you said yourself you'd rather ignore and distract yourself than face reality--so you know already that at least part of the issue is YOU. If you want to ignore, then nothing's going to change. If you want to distract yourself and avoid reality, then nothing's going to change--including YOU. In order to actually be different, you are going to have to stop ignoring what's going on (or not going on) and face it ... head on. 

You know, randomguy, every choice you make has a price. If you choose to ignore and avoid, the likely cost here is going to be losing your marriage. If you choose to face your demons and face reality, the likely cost will be a brief time of discomfort and scariness...but the chances of saving your marriage increase dramatically! It's up to you, but just be honest--if you continue as you are, I can pretty much guarantee the cost will be painful and harder than you think. You aren't really avoiding pain by choosing to ignore and avoid--you're just procrastinating it. On the other hand, if you choose to face it, yep there will be some pain initially, but that will give way to a real chance to build either your marriage or yourself into something pain-free!



> I feel like I am afraid to rock the boat right now with all of the transitions going on (new place, new area, new job for her) and being busy at work. We seem to avoid all topics that could potentially be iffy/uncomfortable. Our "plan" after quitting MC was to work through the Torn Asunder workbook together. We have done this for about 2 months and have recently not made much progress with all of the house crap and travel demanding time.


Randomguy--come on be honest with us here. You are "afraid to rock the boat" period. I realize that moving can be a pretty stressful time, but let me ask you this: is it LESS stressful to uproot your whole life, leave behind friends and/or family, change EVERYTHING...and then discover after moving and you have no one that the marriage isn't going to work? Seriously!! I completely understand the logic in wanting to leave the "defiled" house and even start over fresh in a new location...but that's with the understanding of a deep commitment between the two that are going...so they can rebuild something new and healthy that doesn't have those reminders attached to the old location. What exactly is the point of making her uproot her whole, entire life just to find out a month or two down the road that you weren't all that committed and now she has no one and nothing? What exactly is the point of YOU uprooting your whole life only to find out she wants to file for divorce and now you're in the middle of nowhere? 

I see major issues with this logic!

I *strongly urge* that before you two do begin to move or pack, that you just print your first post and give it to her. If nothing else, she'll learn what you are truly thinking and feeling, and you two can make further decisions based on THE TRUTH rather than this ongoing "hey let's avoid what's really happening here" attitude. 



> I see a few problems:
> 
> 1. I prefer not to rock the boat and/or upset her by talking about our relationship realistically right now. I've tried to be reasonable and "give it time" and make sure I'm not rushing in to any decisions that I might regret for the rest of my life - and keep her calm through the house sale and move. I'm not sure what to tell her or how to make feasible metrics for identifying progress. I feel like it has been more of the same with her not taking full ownership of this. I've seen her "change" a bit, but not in any discernable way outside of a little more interest in me. Overall patterns aren't really much different. We don't treat each other much differently. Our communication didn't magically change. I guess I trust her a bit more than 6 months ago, but I have no compelling reason to think that it couldn't happen again. I am finding myself not as attracted to her.


AND she should know this. See part of the deal of changing communication and improving it is that YOU have to be transparent too! You need to open up and take the risk of letting her know what you are really thinking and feeling--it can't be just her. That's why it's called "communication." If overall patterns aren't changing, communication is not taking place, and you know for a fact that you would rather avoid the truth than "rock the boat"--well shoot you tell me: can you see the problem? PART of the change has to come from YOU! How have your patterns changed? Have you stood up for yourself? Been braver? Communicated your inner thoughts and feelings? Done the work you need to do? Nope. Sooooo...I get it, she needs to do some changing etc. but dude whether she does or not is kind of irrelevant. If you want to recover YOU, then you have to change or you will just keep doing this over and over. 



> 2. She seems to think (or at least not communicate otherwise) everything is ok and progressing as it should.
> 
> My plan is to move, get settled and give the situation a few months to level out. I plan on re-evaluating in August or so. I think I need to abandon this idea I have that time will help my vision.
> 
> If I looked at my time between affair and now as "dating", there's no way I would choose to be married. Is that a fair way to look at it? I need someone objective to tell me I am going crazy.


Again, she needs to know this. I can tell you right now that if I were facing moving to a whole new location and/or state with you in your current state of mind, I'd never agree to go. We'd separate here and now! But you are basically lying TO HER because if (as you've said) she seems to think things are moving along just fine, that means unless you correct her assumption, you're allowing her to believe a lie!! 

So to reiterate--#1 time to rock the boat. Now. Not after you've moved and waited several more months and done nothing. Now. 

#2 if you want change, start by changing you. See a relationship is like a bridge between two islands. You thought your two islands were side-by-side and built your bridge based on that assumption. But she moved her island by having her affair...and the bridge broke. Okay she moved her island back to side-by-side and now is starting to build a bridge like that again...but you keep saying 'NO I want a new bridge! A different bridge!" but you keep your island right where it is! If you move YOUR island...like move it up a little and to the right... she will HAVE TO build something different. But the change starts with YOU. You have to rock the boat. You have to stop avoiding.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I am resurrecting my thread from a few weeks back.

I helped a couple we have known the last 5 or so years move right around the same time as we were packing up. This couple has a few small kids and another on the way. By being around some kids and a somewhat analogous (but not nearly as screwed up) relationship, I've realized I can't have a family with my wife. There is no future. It is time to move on.

With that being said,

It is time to end this.

Can I have this conversation and communicate that our marriage is over and she has to move out without destroying her?

If not, what's the simplest and cleanest way to go about it?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

randomguy123 said:


> It is time to end this.
> 
> Can I have this conversation and communicate that our marriage is over and she has to move out without destroying her?
> 
> If not, what's the simplest and cleanest way to go about it?


This sounds eerily similar to what you said in your very first post. Although you sound more certain than ever, you still don't want to "rock the boat." There is no way to avoid that, and in fact, the more you try, the more unkind and unfair you are being to her. You want to perform major surgery and drag it out as long as possible. That it beyond cruel, in my opinion. Face your fear and be honest with her.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> This sounds eerily similar to what you said in your very first post. Although you sound more certain than ever, you still don't want to "rock the boat." There is no way to avoid that, and in fact, the more you try, the more unkind and unfair you are being to her. You want to perform major surgery and drag it out as long as possible. That it beyond cruel, in my opinion. Face your fear and be honest with her.


I'm trying to avoid it if possible. Regardless of that, I am going through with it. I'd prefer not to flat out destroy her if I can choose otherwise and accomplish the same thing.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

do the old band aid rip


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

randomguy123 said:


> I'm trying to avoid it if possible. Regardless of that, I am going through with it. I'd prefer not to flat out destroy her if I can choose otherwise and accomplish the same thing.


Everyone would like to do it that way. There is no easy way to do this.

You have to choose a time when it isn't too hectic, like a Saturday morning with nothing going on that weekend. You sit down and you have this conversation. YOU MAKE CLEAR TO HER THAT YOUR DECISION IS FINAL AND YOU HOLD OUT NO HOPE OF ANYTHING CHANGING. That you have thought about this for a very long time and you know to the CORE of your being that this is what you want.

That way, if she works or has other obligations, you've at least given her a cushion of the rest of the weekend to absorbe this gut-wrenching news.

Honestly, I'd ask the moderators to move your thread to Considering Divorce or Getting Divorced because you are going to get better advice there.


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