# platonic friendship vs emotional affair?



## 1day (Jan 8, 2016)

How do you define the difference between a true friendship and an emotional affair?

My husband is friends with several females at his work. One is our age and is single (and gorgeous), and very self confident. About 6 months ago my husband casually mentions "Oh by the way we just found out ___ is coming to the training tomorrow out of town. We are going to carpool." I reply "Oh did someone else back out?" He replies no that she just found out that day that she was going. I go a lot of training for work and unless the training is provided by my employer I have never just been added to a training offered by another facility the day before. Most of these trainings have deadlines to register and the only way you end up going short notice is if someone else backs out. So this doesn't sit right with me and I checked his cell phone without him knowing (this is so unlike me but I just had a feeling that something wasn't adding up). Sure enough the week before there was a text saying "Oh crap $$$ (their manager) is trying to come to the training with us next week". So I asked him again "So ___ just found out today that she has to go to a training out of town??" He again confirms that they just found out today. So I drop it because at this point I am wondering WHY he's not telling me and I am also curious to do a bit more digging/monitoring.

So a couple times now I have seen texts from her asking him to pick her up from the car dealership (that has a courtesy shuttle) AFTER he has already arrived at work, and a couple lunches out just the two of them. There has never been any indication via text that there is anything more than a friendship but at the same point he made a point the other day to tell me he had driven his female married boss to her house because she locked her keys in her car and she needed to pick up the spare key. He is always super transparent except with her. He knows I am not a big fan of hers just because she is so self confident (to the point of ****iness) but I would never tell him he couldn't be friends with her. She just quit 3 weeks ago and moved to a new job. They have maintained text messages and from what I saw earlier this week arranged to potentially have lunch together today.

What are your thoughts? Friends or emotional affair? Where do I go from here? Bring it up? Drop it and allow him to have a friend?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I know some posters here disagree with me, but it's my firm belief that men and women cannot be just friends. This comes from a former woman who in her younger years had nothing but male friends. I used to be totally ignorant about men and my extroverted nature was my undoing. I eventually found out that all my trusted, good male friends wanted to sleep with me. Not their fault, just a learning experience. 

Read "Not Just Friends by the late Dr. Shirley Glass. 

The boundaries are what you make them out to be, depending on what you will tolerate. He can either agree or not agree to these boundaries if you feel he is carrying on inappropriately. You don't need us to tell you what is or isn't appropriate. You already know in your gut.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> Oh crap $$$ (their manager) is trying to come to the training with us next week".


 Who sent this text?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Satya said:


> I know some posters here disagree with me, but it's my firm belief that men and women cannot be just friends.


I think some individuals can. I just am not one of them. You make good points. I think that is one of the main reasons why I choose to not have friends, only acquaintances. I don't have any extra energy to expend on anyone except my partner and child.

Relationship Teacher


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

OP read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html and order the book @Satya recommended "Not Just Friends"


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

The fact that he is trying to minimize what you know is a big red flag.

I say it's an emotional affair that is likely to go physical if you don't put a stop to it in time.

But you can't let him know that you are suspicious. Read the standard evidence post and figure out how to get to the bottom of this.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm with Satya.

Ask yourself these questions: Does he go to one-on-one lunches with male coworkers and text with them about it? Does he pick them up from car repair places or take them home to get spare keys? Does he tell you about it when a male co-worker goes with him to a training session?

My ex is a pilot. He would tell me about "buddy bidding" (setting up month-long travel schedules to be the same) with female flight attendants, but insisted they were "just friends" and that if anything were going on, he wouldn't be telling me about it beforehand, would he? (I never asked or accused him - he volunteered all this information). But you know what he who excuses himself also does, right?

He stopped telling me about one of these flight attendants, and then she sent an email to him thanking him for "the lovely lunch and time they had together" a few days before. He'd gone in really early for a trip a few days before, claiming he was catching up on paperwork at the airport. The email address she had sent it to was one she didn't realize we shared. I didn't have to accuse him - I left it in the "read" status and didn't say a word, and then watched him back-peddle when he figured it out.

The really sad thing is we rug-swept that one. He could have been f***ing her for years for all I know, and probably was.

Fast forward to 13 years later, and I irrefutably catch him in a full-blown PA with the "best friend" of one of his other flight attendant EA (at least) partners.

I like your approach. No point accusing him until you have irrefutable evidence. Get that. And then full-blown expose and 180 his a$$. Don't repeat the mistakes I made. And the years I wasted.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

1day said:


> Sure enough the week before there was a text saying "Oh crap $$$ (their manager) is trying to come to the training with us next week". So I asked him again "So ___ just found out today that she has to go to a training out of town??" He again confirms that they just found out today.


 A text message a week before that says "Oh crap $$$ (their manager) is trying to come to the training with us next week" not only confirms that he is lying to you about them finding out about it just that day, but it also shows that they (as an "us") did not want the manager going with them, indicating that they both preferred that it to be just the two of them carpooling alone together on this out of town trip. Additionally, since this was a work function where they should have been focusing on their careers and prioritizing bonding with their manager, they both instead prioritized using this trip as an opportunity to bond with each other. 

In answer to the question in your thread title "platonic friendship vs emotional affair?", since almost all emotional affairs start out as platonic friendships, with lying about the relationship to the spouse being the common factor of the ones that eventually become emotional affairs, regardless of where there relationship is right now, the lying is what makes the relationship something to be concerned about.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

1day,

Think of it this way how many affairs would last if the cheating spouse was honest with the betrayed spouse. If the cheater came home and told his wife, I kissed a woman I met at the bar today, how much further would it go?

Lies are fundamental to starting and continuing an affair, and their number and seriousness only increases with time. You should quietly snoop on your H to determine if anything is happening if he knows you are looking he will go further underground.

You also need to determine if this is a one time event or if your H is a serial cheater. A serial cheater does not blunder into an affair because of contact, but plans and schemes to get into one.

Tamat


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## 1day (Jan 8, 2016)

Thank you all for your replies. I am so grateful for this site! My best friend is his sister and I don't have a ton of friends beyond that that I am close enough to share this with. I will check that book out for sure. Since she quit a couple weeks ago I thought maybe contact would die down but I just discovered lunch happened today. I'm devastated. We have two little kids, I honestly don't know where to go from here. Part of me just wants to get it off my chest and tell him I know everything. The other part of me wants to just bury my head in the sand and keep on keeping on for a while, not because I think its going to solve our relationship but because I'm just not sure I have it in me to talk ending our marriage right now. We work well together, we have a beautiful house and amazing kids.... but lots of things in our relationship have fallen to the wayside and now we have this to deal with. 

I dont think I am being naive when I say Im 95% certain that the relationship hasn't gotten physical yet. I have read everything they have sent to each other and there's nothing flirtatious or even that could be read as code for anything more. I am not someone has a lot of self esteem, but if there are two qualities I have they would be that I am reasonable and I am fair. He hangs out with his guy friends most Friday nights to play cards (I am certain this is where he is because he will ask if I prefer they all come here or if he goes out). My only stipulation is that the kids are in bed before he goes, after that he is free to go. I don't text him unless I need something, I am not the wife that sends a text every 15 mins to ask when he is coming home. I know that having hobbies and interests are important.

I honestly cant wrap my head around why he is sneaking around with this girl unless his intentions would be for something more. If that's the case I don't know whether to tell him to leave or if I should stand by like an idiot and let it happen so I have no doubt in my mind that I didn't bail on something that we could have worked through.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

1day said:


> I honestly cant wrap my head around why he is sneaking around with this girl unless his intentions would be for something more.


 Regardless of if it goes physical or not, keeping it secret from you indicates that he is leaving the option open for it to go that way. I am sorry, but if she were very unattractive instead of being "gorgeous", he would not be seeing her behind your back and you know it.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Why did she quit a couple of weeks ago? Or what does your husband say was the reason she quit?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

A platonic friendship is not hidden from the SO because there is nothing to hide.
An EA is hidden with lies including lies of omission because there is something to hide...

If he's sneaking around with her, and misleading you about details of the time they spend together- then it is not a platonic friendship and he knows it. That's why the cover-up.

Put a VAR in his car, cheap and effective.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I have gone through this with my H. I thought he had become distant and was working all the time- I checked his phone (2nd time in 30 years) and found a lot of texts to a female coworker. Nothing sexual-just chatty and a few "we make a great team" and "you're the best". He had also talked about the 2 of them going to in- services together. There was also a comment about "oh the boss is here…" at one of them. The first time I had ever checked his phone was 3 years before when he came home 3 hours late (I had needed him home to help deal with a problem with our daughter) That time I found texts from her asking him to pleeeeeeease meet her and a few other co-workers at a bar…..

I confronted too early- he denied that there was anything going on- just friends/coworkers who have to deal with each other in a strictly business fashion. I asked if he'd ever gone to her house? He denied vigorously but eventually admitted to going to her house 3 times to help her with construction issues. 

He brought her little gifts to thank her for helping him with computer programs. 

He lied about talking to her while she was off sick. He deleted her texts and lied about it. We went to a wedding with his workmates and I turned around to find her winking at him behind my back.

After more than a year of MC and IC and marriage workshops we are in many ways much closer and have a deeper relationship.
However…..she texted him xmas eve to say even though he was on holidays she cleared it with their boss for him to work after hours if he wanted too. He didn't. I also know that he deleted more texts between them 2 weeks ago. 

I have exposed what I know to my parents and his as well as extended family. Put it out there that this is going on and i'm concerned…He is doing this and although he says its nothing I'm uncomfortable…The consensus seems to be that she is aggressive
.
I kicked him out of the bedroom and served him with separation papers.
I booked a poly.(which led to the disclosure he had been to her house several times and had looked at realestate near her home.
He said he would take the poly then backed out after I booked it saying they were unreliable.

I put a VAR in his car but only got a convo about how he would not take the poly.

So my best advice is to hold out until you can gather more evidence.Sooooooooooo hard. I couldn't do it. I ruined any chance I may have had to prove anything.

The lies indicate he knows what he is doing is wrong.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I have several platonic relationships with women.

I rarely if ever text them.

Your husband is heading to the rapids of the EA River.

Best throw him a lifeline before he gets into difficulties.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

It's so damn exciting! The clandestine hypnotic narcotic that an EA affair brings. PA the icing on the cake. There is nothing innocent about this hook up - trust me.


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## 1day (Jan 8, 2016)

soccermom2three said:


> Why did she quit a couple of weeks ago? Or what does your husband say was the reason she quit?


She apparently found a new job where she can mostly work from home (she lives in a little town about 20 mins away). She is a single Mom with no family in town (her parents live hours away & her ex lives an hour away) so it will allow her some more flexibility to care for her daughter and make more money than she was making.


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## 1day (Jan 8, 2016)

workindad said:


> A platonic friendship is not hidden from the SO because there is nothing to hide.
> An EA is hidden with lies including lies of omission because there is something to hide...
> 
> If he's sneaking around with her, and misleading you about details of the time they spend together- then it is not a platonic friendship and he knows it. That's why the cover-up.
> ...


I don't think a Var will catch much of anything. He gets 30 mins for lunch so with her living out of town I know they aren't driving places together anymore, he works two mins from home and there are zero records of him ever talking on the phone to her. It's all texts and when they go for lunch they aren't going to take out places they go out to sit down resaurants.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I would VAR anyways-you only know what you know-and its not everything.

A single Mom with kids and no support? She may have been luring him in with "poor helpless me….I have no one…..I am lonely…..and even though you are another woman's husband you will do wonders for my ego and need for attention…..actually the fact that you are another woman's husband makes you even more attractive to me"- 

Does your husband have Knight in shining armour tendencies?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BTW I hope this doesn't sound bad but nearly every woman I have had a platonic relationship with could well have gone sexual had the conditions been right. Both of us had not been married or in committed relationship if there had been a spark between us etc.

In fact on several occasions my wife has pointed out to me that though I had been clueless a platonic friend HAD wanted me really badly. Common denominators they thought I was a kind, dependable chap so would have made a great dad for their kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> BTW I hope this doesn't sound bad but nearly every woman I have had a platonic relationship with could well have gone sexual had the conditions been right. Both of us had not been married or in committed relationship if there had been a spark between us etc.
> 
> In fact on several occasions my wife has pointed out to me that though I had been clueless a platonic friend HD wsntd me really badly. Common denominator they thought I was a kind, dependable chap *so would have made s great dd forvthrir kids*.


I hope they wouldn't expect you to help them with their poofreading homwork. >


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

technovelist said:


> I hope they wouldn't expect you to help them with their poofreading homework >


I already fixed that. I was struggling with my new Android tab. Only £50 so what can you expect?

Actually it is the bloody predicitive typing in Android. Sometimes it goes absolutely mental and changes words for no reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

nursejackie said:


> So my best advice is to hold out until you can gather more evidence.Sooooooooooo hard. I couldn't do it. I ruined any chance I may have had to prove anything.


 If you know that they are cheating with it having already gone farther than you can forgive, and you want evidence to prove it to family and friends in a divorce, then holding out until you can gather that evidence makes a lot of sense. But if they are in the early stages of a possible affair, and your goal is to save the marriage before they do something that you will not be able to forgive, shutting it down ASAP before it has a chance to develop makes the most sense. All too often I see people wait to confront, only to learn that the affair had gone physical for the first time, or that the emotional affair had progressed to "I love you" for the first time, while they were holding off confronting as they were gathering more evidence.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Sayta could you expand more on what boundaries you ignored when you were younger? When you changed those boundaries did that negatively affect some of your male friendships? What boundaries do you have now that you didn't before?


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my lady. 

You know all Affairs start like this one. 
We are only co-workers. We are only good friends so there is nothing bad if I go to lunch with her/him. 

I belive both of them are in Emotional Affair. 

You need to stop this. Tell your husband : ma and kids or she. 

Dont trust him and dont let him stay in contact with her.

They planned this trip,they went to launches behind your back. He never told you about this,so he knew he is doing something that he shouldnt.

I think you can save this marriage before it is to late. You are lucky you caught them early.

No contact with this woman at all. It is a good thing she changed jobs,so they would not make excuses about "job talk"


Stay strong my lady.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

TRy --Excellent point. It is a real quandary. In my case I was so reactive and impatient I couldn't wait especially since I knew how these coworker friendships can cross the line. Just friends, so much in common, confidents, understand/get each other, sexual tension, physicality.

I am hoping since I confronted early I avoided it going P and I am pretty sure I avoided the "I love you" part.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

bremik said:


> Sayta could you expand more on what boundaries you ignored when you were younger? When you changed those boundaries did that negatively affect some of your male friendships? What boundaries do you have now that you didn't before?


Bremik, I'll do my best to explain. It's a part of my past, so it's a part of me, but mostly it's a big lesson. 

When I was young and younger (puberty through to late 20s) I was really into guy stuff. I was your pretty typical tomboy and disliked girly things. I played mostly with boys at school, got into boy things, was an early 90s self-proclaimed girl gamer, had a group of online male friends I hung with/grew with for 7 years. I consistently worked with more men than women, because I was always doing internships or early jobs in tech (women existed, but not in the quantity you see today). 

Even though I married in my early 20s, I had zero boundaries when it came to befriending men. My friendly manner toward them often crossed into flirtation, sometimes sexual topics. I'd play armchair psychologist. These guys were my age, sometimes 5-15 years younger. I was Wendy to the "lost boys." 

It completely fed my ego, both from the online attention and in real life. It was interesting and engaging. It felt good to have the attention, admiration... It felt good to be the go-to woman to ask about other women. A very real emotional affair with an online friend nearly got carried away. 

In real life, the clearest message hit me when I was separating from my husband. I'd exerted my new boundaries well by then, so imagine my surprise when in the span of the week just before my flight, I was grabbed & snogged by one coworker I'd known and sat next to for several years, was propositioned for sex by my own boss (who was just recently MARRIED) and was told by two other male colleagues that they'd be very keen to date me if I ever returned. 

Lol! My life was crumbling - who does that when you're life blows up?? Anyway, it drove home the notion that men view friendly interaction in a very different way. I am extremely careful about the amount of consistent interaction I have with men. It hasn't been an "issue" since. 

So, that's my lesson learned, from my own experiences. Men & women can't be just friends.


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## Noc (Dec 31, 2015)

At least you are on the front end. It went on for over ten years before I ever had an inkling. Jump on it now. Don't let yourself end up where I am now, trying to catch up after them having a huge head start. I wish to God something would have alerted me what seems like a lifetime ago.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

1day said:


> He is always super transparent except with her.


You do know that he wants to sleep with her, right? I don't know if the feelings are reciprocal. But he definitely LIKES her, likes her.

Of that I have ZERO doubt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

1day said:


> She apparently found a new job where she can mostly work from home (she lives in a little town about 20 mins away).
> 
> I don't think a Var will catch much of anything. He gets 30 mins for lunch so with her living out of town I know they aren't driving places together anymore


One, I drive 65 minutes one way to my work and I'm still in the same city. Twenty minutes is nothing when you have a desire to get somewhere.

Two, SHE works from home, so she has complete flexibility as to when and where she is. She can easily be waiting outside his door when he steps out for lunch. One minute for sex, 29 minutes for small talk...

Anyway, you can either snoop and gather more proof and THEN confront him with it, or you can just go right up to him and say "I have proof you lied to me about Wilhelmina and that trip and I'm not taking it any more. If you're not happy in this marriage, go ahead and pack up your sh*t and get out. But I will not stay married as long as you continue to contact her. If you're willing to stop all contact with her and give me access to your electronics so I can verify it, we can move forward. And I'm happy to sit down with a counselor to hear what issues you may have with me or the marriage. But I can't stay in a marriage where I have to worry about how far you two are going. Let me know what you decide."


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

A good police detective will patiently gather incriminating evidence before confronting a perp. This is necessary because the detective will need to present his evidence to the prosecutor who will decide if there is enough solid proof to arrest and maybe obtain a search warrant. Good evidence will lead to charges and hopefully a trial. You need really good evidence to convict someone.

Now.......yours is not a criminal case. This is a marriage ready to go down the whirlpool of the stinking toilet. I too love a good detective case, but when you get this good case, replete with all the evidence of wrongdoing and dirty deeds committed by your dear husband, your marriage is lost.

Do you want an ironclad case of husband committing adultery?
Or do you want to stop this train wreck in-the- making and save your marriage. 

i think the latter. 

Stop it now if you can stomach what is already night-shade behavior. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you cannot stomach the existing vile brew [as it stands now] than let it run its inevitable course, let him do the dirty deed with the beautiful wench. Gather the proof, nail him and divorce Sneaky Peter........ [my choice].


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I'm platonic friends with guys, but they are mutual friends of my fiance, mainly...and he has the same with women we both know. We met through a mutual friend, so our social circle is somewhat the same, give or take a few outliers. I think you can tell the difference, if the 'friend' isn't kept a secret. And if I sensed that my fiance were to have an issue with a guy I'm friends with, I'd end it. He's not the jealous type really, so if he had an issue, I'd think there was something to it. You have a right to be a bit suspicious...this is how affairs start. Not that he's having one, but this is how they start. Your husband should not continue hanging out with this woman, especially since he knows you are not happy about their 'friendship.'


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Stop this nonsense like yesterday. You are allowing your husband to go on dates. Tell him that he is dating this woman and that you will not stand by and be disrespected in this manner. Tell everyone about his dating activities. You will have additional eyes and ears.

See an attorney to protect your rights. I am 36 years married. First time marriage for my husband and I. I would not allow any female (other than my husband's sisters) to be platonic friends with my spouse. We have mutual acquaintances, but not exclusive friends. We are transparent on everything.

You need to be strong and confront this problem head on. You will be tormented by waiting in the wings.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have had many female friends.

I slept with all but two. One was unattractive to me physically and one was a csa survivor that I would never approach that way.

Regardless. Your H is up to no damn good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I've always said the reason an emotional affair is not a physical affair is a timing problem. And the reason opposite sexed friends won't sleep together is because one is not interested yet.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

@1day - sorry you're here.

I hope for your sake this is the beginnings of an EA, but it sure appears that it is an EA that is fairly well along. He might not even know it’s an EA because he probably still has some morals telling him ‘he’d never sleep with her’ and ‘he loves his wife’ so he’s probably deluding himself that all is well. Men don’t realize they are in emotional affairs – to them an affair is physical. They feel an attraction, but think its ok – lots of people can be friends. The old ‘I didn’t do anything with her’ is probably foremost in his thoughts because, well, that’s how a lot of men think, until all of a sudden opportunity hits and it’s physical.

Your husband hiding the timing of the training and not being forthright is extremely worrisome. Her being upset someone else is coming along is extremely worrisome. 

You need to figure out how much you want to know. 

Some members here say never confront without absolute proof because the wayward spouse will lie, misdirect etc., and try to get you to believe you are imagining things that aren’t there. Another complication of confronting without proof is the relationship has been ‘outed’ and if they want it to continue, they will become far more careful and secretive. In other words, they will take the relationship underground and fiercely protect its existence. 

Others will say you need to nip this in the bud immediately and set your boundaries of what is acceptable. I feel that expressing and setting boundaries is important to do in general within the confines of your marriage – not just because an affair is suspected. A lot of married couples get complacent and think their spouse knows what they should and should not do, that they inherently understand what lines can and cannot be crossed. Sadly, this is not the case.

This is the rabbit hole you're facing now. It will depend on your personality how you want to proceed.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

:iagree:

This is paraphrasing my first ever post on TAM in response to a similar thread about 3 years back.

I know from experience what an EA is all about. I rubbed my wife's face in one for close to 3 yrs after we were married. No "I love you" 's or anything romantic like that with my single girl "friend". _Just_ would spend hours on the phone, while at home with my family, talking with her about all of life's inanities. 

Sometimes in front of my wife. 

Sometimes I'd have to leave the room because she and the babies were making too much noise...

You see I had convinced myself that because it was all above board and I had never (read not yet) touched this woman, what I was doing was harmless. 

Problem comes that marriage is an 'all in' game and the simple fact is I was being a coward and hedging my bet (my marriage). If things went sideways with the wife, I knew I had only to up the ante in my so-called friendly relationship and I'd have a soft place (between a pair of legs) to land.

It stopped when my "friend" decided she was tired of my fence sitting. She lived 500 miles away but was coming into town and asked if we could go for drinks, so that we could catch up in person. She didn't invite my wife. In fact she suggested that my wife could watch the kids while we got together.

I thought this was a fine idea until my wife asked me to REALLY consider one simple question. My saving grace was that I actually did.

There weren't any ultimatums or histrionics from her. Just a calm and cold "How would you feel if I did this to you?" delivered with one of my babies in her arms.

I pictured her going out with some single guy friend I barely knew for drinks while I stayed home watching the babies and could not come up with any possible scenario in my head where I would be good with that. I then looked back at all I had done to that point in our relationship and had an "Oh sh!t" moment, realizing what a complete and utter a$$wipe I had been. I apologized to her profusely and shut down my relationship with the "friend" immediately. 

Your husband, at the very least, is hedging his bet and because of this does not fully understand what he has to lose.

I think you need to educate him as to 'house rules'. If he can't abide, refuse service and gently but firmly show him the door.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

This thread is interesting. During my recovery, I became really good friends with a nice lady at work. I never flirted and kept it professional at all times. She helped me get through some of it. I was grateful for her advice. She had just been a few weeks shy of her divorce from 2 years prior at that time. She really did help a lot. Months later she tells me that she is happy for me but is angry at herself for not trying to get a piece of Augusto's action. I do not know why she ever thought I would date her. But I think it was just the friendship we had to her was like a vicarious marraige the way she explained it. And she revealed later that she wanted more during that time but she said she got over it slowly as I put her in the friend zone. She said I never made a move on her advances. I told her even though I had issues at home, it would have never happened. Even looking back on it I wonder if I hurt her. I wasn't trying to and she knew the boundary going in.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

In the interest of full disclosure, about 7 yrs after my EA, my wife decided to jump the fence drunk one night and screw the neighbour while I slept. Pretty sure that it continued for another 4 or 5 months but could never prove it. 

Long story short, it happened and got rug swept long before I found this place. 

The problem was as it always is - I kept tripping over the bump under the rug. I convinced myself I wanted a revenge affair. At that point, I was travelling a lot for business. I decided I was going to try to get with our old babysitter who now lived in a town I went through a lot.

This was a woman 12 years younger than us whom my wife and I had met when we all worked at the same factory. She was twenty at that time. At the point that I decided I was going to make a try for the brass ring she was 29, single and wickedly hot. 

She was excited to go for dinner with me when I got into town and immediately asked how my wife was doing. When I launched into a diatribe about how WW had wronged me and gave her an opening, the babysitter, instead of taking it, listened intently to me, agreed it was awful - and then took the conversation somewhere else that was lighter. Ended up enjoying myself immensely but got nowhere.

Over the next few years, I'd drop by on my way through and we'd usually end up going through a couple of bottles of wine BSing and laughing until all hours of the morning. Even slept over a number of times. On the couch. By myself. 

Again, never once did it go anywhere near to flirting. 

I figured out early on that she's into younger guys than her. Beyond that and more importantly, I figured out that she's intelligent enough to be moral and strong enough to stay true to it. 

For my part, I've killed the misplaced lust and enjoy her as a person in the same way that I would any other close friend. Haven't stopped admiring how hot she is. But I've realized that anything beyond that is path to destruction on all levels. This place has really helped me with that.

My resolve was put to the test a few years back when I arrived in town and swung by to go for coffee we'd arranged a few days prior. She had moved in with a guy a year before but when I arrived to pick her up he wasn't there and she was outside her home crying. She had found his profile on a dating site a few days before and had just confronted him. His response was to throw all 105 lbs of her to the ground, put his foot on her throat and threaten to kill her before leaving to have a beer with his buddies before I got there.

I calmed her down, got her fed and took her back to my hotel room. It only had one Queen bed. She said it was big enough for both of us. I said it'd be better if I took the floor on the other side. She could pretend my snoring was growling and that I was a big old dog guarding the room. She gave me a hug and said "Thank-you".

I moved her out the next day while he was at work and took her to stay with her best friend. 

I know my wife is not very comfortable with this friendship though she's never come out and said it. On my end, I don't travel very often anymore and we don't communicate near as much. I've always told my wife anytime I've seen or talked to her and everything we've talked about. We don't text much but when we do, I ask my wife if she wants to read them. 

The only thing I haven't told her is that I stayed there a number of times. I don't have any guilt about it. Just don't see any point in creating unnecessary drama.

Because, while this is all true, it's very improbable. The only way I could prove my innocence is through a poly. But then I'd have a few questions to ask her as well regarding the neighbour.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Just remember when it comes to married/committed friends of the opposite sex, friends don't give friends orgasms.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

lostmyreligion said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, about 7 yrs after my EA, my wife decided to jump the fence drunk one night and screw the neighbour while I slept. Pretty sure that it continued for another 4 or 5 months but could never prove it.
> 
> Long story short, it happened and got rug swept long before I found this place.
> 
> ...


I think you watch too much porn. The babysitter?!


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> I've always said the reason an emotional affair is not a physical affair is a timing problem. And the reason opposite sexed friends won't sleep together is because one is not interested yet.


omg... really?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Steph, I've always said when a man and a woman are friends, its likely one or both would like to sleep together if the chance presented itself.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Just remember when it comes to married/committed friends of the opposite sex, friends don't give friends orgasms.


Perfect.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I have had many female friends.
> 
> I slept with all but two. One was unattractive to me physically and one was a csa survivor that I would never approach that way.
> ]





ThePheonix said:


> I've always said the reason an emotional affair is not a physical affair is a timing problem. And *the reason opposite sexed friends won't sleep together is because one is not interested yet*.



You guys are spot on.

It is difficult for opposite sexes to be friends. My female friends fall into two categories, the ones that I'm not physically attracted to and the ones I might have a chance having sex with. I don't have sex with them because of either my morals or theirs.

"But you're saying there's a chance":wink2:

If men are honest, they mostly only help women with the hopes of a possible return and will help ones they're attracted too quicker and more often.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Satya said:


> I know some posters here disagree with me, but it's my firm belief that men and women cannot be just friends. This comes from a former woman who in her younger years had nothing but male friends. I used to be totally ignorant about men and my extroverted nature was my undoing. I eventually found out that all my trusted, good male friends wanted to sleep with me.


I'm one of your dissenters. I am very good friends with a married woman. I talk to her all the time at work. I also speak to her husband quite a bit though admittedly I just click better friendship wise with the wife. Even the husband acknowledged this at his wedding, which I attended!

Would I sleep with her? If she was single, definitely. She's very attractive and I'm human. With her being married? I'd never dream about attempting to do anything to jeopardize our friendship. I value it too much and bluntly speaking I'm not a scumbag. Though I seem to be in the minority these days.

I think you can be friends if boundaries are put in place and CLEARLY understood by both parties. We both share the strong conviction that cheating is WRONG. In OP's situation, the boundaries are clearly TOO LAX and need to be tightened up or the friendship needs to be terminated. 

This COULD easily slip into an emotional affair if either of them are not careful.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

I never dissented....I just think friend needs to stay friend like a sister. Just never cross the line. Otherwise you are committing in incest.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> My ex is a pilot. He would tell me about "buddy bidding" (setting up month-long travel schedules to be the same) with female flight attendants, but insisted they were "just friends" and that if anything were going on, he wouldn't be telling me about it beforehand, would he? (I never asked or accused him - he volunteered all this information). But you know what he who excuses himself also does, right?~


On another websites - flight attendants (old - school stewardess) says having sex with pilots is common. She has shared many stories.

They fly all over the world, stay in hotels with nothing much to do for a day or so then sleep and have some fun. 

Marrying an airline pilot, its likely PA will happen.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Satya said:


> I know some posters here disagree with me, but it's my firm belief that men and women cannot be just friends.


 In general yes, but yes - its possible to have M & F friendship that is JUST friends.

But if left on a deserted island - there is going to be sex going on. Heck, even if it was two guys. 

I do have some F-friends, but not many. Or some of them are women who I dated, and we are really nothing more than FRIENDS today.

It was a good female friend who helped me on my affair crisis.

I've also taken baths and showers with a few female friends with NO sexual plans or sexual activity. Just drunken silliness.

Once a friend was drunk and was sex-horny, but I declined when I had the opportunity when she wanted me. Why didn't I do it? Because I knew she was too drunk and she didn't remember much about that part of the night, I would have hated myself and would have likely ended a friendship.


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