# Question for the men



## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

I had an interesting theory that came to me, and I wanted some unbiased opinions on it. My womanly mind could be way off base  BTW, for those of you who know my story, I am not asking this thinking it is the issue. I know the major issue is that I'm a doormat and H is a selfish addict. But I was thinking this may be a small side note.

Women often say they want a "nice" (beta) guy. Yet, in the dating world, beta guys seem to get stuck in the "friend zone", and many male BSs here seem to be beta guys. Women THINK they want a beta guy, but always end up going after the alpha ones. 

I have always had a lot of male friends, and I hear things like this often: "I wish we had more in common", "I wish she showed interest in the game", "It drives me crazy how long it takes her to get ready", "I wish she would initiate sex"

That woman is me. I've always been a bit of a tomboy. I have "male" interests (sports, fishing, camping, etc), the game and Sportscenter is manditory viewing, I look nice in 30 minutes flat and I initiate sex probably 50% of the time. In the dating world, I was usually in the "friend zone", but my H saw those things as a plus. Our compatibility is off the charts.

This brings me to my theory - can men THINK they want these qualities in a woman, but actually grow to resent them, kind of like women with the beta vs alpha man? 

Thanks for the thoughts!!


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't think so. Usually when men find a woman with qualities they desire, "she's a keeper". I think it's only women who get turned off when they're treated _too nicely_ (someone needs to explain that one to me!) I certainly haven't heard of any man complaining that his wife is "too nice" to him. Maybe if the wife has a high drive and the husband doesn't, then I can see where resentment may arise, but as a general rule, we usually don't grow to resent comforting qualities in a woman.


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

oregonmom said:


> I had an interesting theory that came to me, and I wanted some unbiased opinions on it. My womanly mind could be way off base  BTW, for those of you who know my story, I am not asking this thinking it is the issue. I know the major issue is that I'm a doormat and H is a selfish addict. But I was thinking this may be a small side note.
> 
> Women often say they want a "nice" (beta) guy. Yet, in the dating world, beta guys seem to get stuck in the "friend zone", and many male BSs here seem to be beta guys. Women THINK they want a beta guy, but always end up going after the alpha ones.
> 
> ...


Another theory is at 25 years old we want one thing and at 50 we want something totally different. We out grow one another, and there for stray or lose interest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

As long as you don't sit around drinking beer with the other hand down your pants(think Al Bundy married with childern) it is cool.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the insight 

Complexity-
Wish I could tell you why a woman could think her man was too nice, it isn't a turn off for me. I would say I am the HD partner, does that change things? I never come right out and say I want sex, but will do certain things I know turn him on to initiate it. In a perfect world, I would get more, but I get enough to keep me happy and have never raised the issue.

CL-
I guess that is what confuses me... When we are younger, surface things are important, as we get older we look for someone we can grow old with. My H went the other way :scratchhead:

Sirdano-
lol, no I'm not Ted Bundy. I have been known to let a good string of obsenities fly when my team screws the pooch or the refs suck, but no burping, farting or hands down my pants 


I guess my thinking was I may be invading his "man" turf too much, or he was seeing me as one of the guys instead of his wife...but just seems to be a lot of over thinking again which I am really good at


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

We want a lady on the street and a freak in the bed.

Usher ft Ludacris & Lil' Jon - Yeah !!! - YouTube

I think women want a Nice Guy with an edge. A guy who can Alpha up when he needs to. I call that a Good Guy. He has a compassionate and loving nature because he chooses that. But he refuses to be disrespected. Bad Boys will not mess with him or his woman. If they do he dominates the situation. It takes a blend of traits to be that guy. No fear.

I would add that it really does not matter what women want. It is what the guy wants first of all. It is what the type of women you want ... wants. If the woman just wants a Bad Boy, she is bad news. If she wants a doormat even worse. You want to the man you want to be and then attract women who are compatible.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My second real girl friend threw me over fairly quickly and in an insensitive way. She completely ignored me at her birthday party, whilst deliberately flirting with other men at the party.

A mutual friend who was also at the party could see how badly I was feeling, and as our mutual friend had got us together, she was upset by this turn of events and managed to get her alone in the kitchen. 
"Are you and Matt still an item?" 
"No, I thought it best to finish it." 
"Well, WTF didn't you tell him that?" 
"I didn't want to upset him. I'll tell him later." 
"Him seeing you flirting with every man at your birthday party and you not even bothering to speak to him has already given him a pretty big clue!" 
"Is he upset?" 
"OF COURSE he is upset! And I am SO angry with you! If I'd have realised you would be so heartless, I'd never have set you two up on a date! Why have you finished with him?"
"He was too nice to me. He treated me too well!"
At this point our mutual friend told her she was an idiot as she left the kitchen.

She then grabbed her boyfriend, found me and said: "I have just had words with her. She's stupid. I'll explain what happened, later."

She liberated two unopened bottles of wine and took me to their flat were she and her boy friend talked to me and helped me to get myself together.

I was too nice?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

oregonmom said:


> Thanks for the insight
> 
> Complexity-
> Wish I could tell you why a woman could think her man was too nice, it isn't a turn off for me. I would say I am the HD partner, does that change things? I never come right out and say I want sex, but will do certain things I know turn him on to initiate it. In a perfect world, I would get more, but I get enough to keep me happy and have never raised the issue.
> ...


*Not Ted Bundy????? Thank f... for that!!!!*:rofl:


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I was too nice?


Yes, you ended up being in the friend zone, and she's not attracted to a friend. Being too attainable seems to be a turn off to some women.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Yes, you ended up being in the friend zone, and she's not attracted to a friend.


Also, she was a member of a Rock and Roll club and I was not especially into that.

The weird thing was, I was not being especially nice, just being as polite as I was taught, opening doors for women, etc.

However, the kicker was that several years later I got together with the woman who is now my wife and she pointed to a cute little cottage and said: "That's were my best friend grew up!"

She heard me start to choke and she said: "Do you know her?" I composed myself and admitted that I had dated her several years previously. "God!" she said: "I'll bet that was an interesting experience!" 

When we met her at an event after we had been dating for a couple of months, even though we'd had NC since we split up my former girl friend suddenly became very jealous and started making up to me. This weirded me out and my now wife said: "Cut it out. You dated him years ago, he's mine now, back off!"

She did, thankfully.

Subsequently she hunted for a man to father her child (he had to have perfect genes!) travelled a couple of hundred miles to visit the bull she had chosen and then gave birth to a child with multiple personality disorders, sadly. 

I did not dodge a bullet, I dodged a bloody Howitzer shell, there, I think.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Women quickly lose interest in a guy wh is not a challenge. "Hard to get" works. Always saying "yes dear" will cause you to end up in the "lets just be friends" zone or your wife lose interest sexually and emotionally, leaving you, and or having an affair. Show me a wife that cheats and 7 out of 10 times, I'll show you woman married to a good guy with a beta personality


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> *Not Ted Bundy????? Thank f... for that!!!!*:rofl:


Al was Ted's little bro,


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't get the whole alpha beta crap....I do no want an alpha dated a couple and hated it, was miserable and left. I married a beta and wouldn't have it any other way....based on halls nice guy profile, yes he is nice but he puts his foot down on certain issues and he has his boundaries and he is sexy and I would never cheat so I guess there are some differences...maybe the problem int with the men...alpha or beta...but the women....are there types for those?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Women quickly lose interest in a guy wh is not a challenge. "Hard to get" works. Always saying "yes dear" will cause you to end up in the "lets just be friends" zone or your wife lose interest sexually and emotionally, leaving you, and or having an affair. Show me a wife that cheats and 7 out of 10 times, I'll show you woman married to a good guy with a beta personality


Yeah, but if you are alpah, you get the "controlling" "insensitive" "emotionally unavailable " label. Best to be a sigma , omega or gamma,possibly even a delta, like Blutarsky.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Women quickly lose interest in a guy wh is not a challenge. "Hard to get" works. Always saying "yes dear" will cause you to end up in the "lets just be friends" zone or your wife lose interest sexually and emotionally, leaving you, and or having an affair. Show me a wife that cheats and 7 out of 10 times, I'll show you woman married to a good guy with a beta personality


So essentially with women, we have to find a balance between _purposely_ treating them like crap so they'd respect us and being nice enough so they won't hate us?

I swear women are the most complicated thing ever!


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> So essentially with women, we have to find a balance between _purposely_ treating them like crap so they'd respect us and being nice enough so they won't hate us?
> 
> I swear women are the most complicated thing ever!


No wonder they call it "game". Just a little too boring and exhausting for me. I'd ratner serially date until the woman gets tired of my betaness, then bolt.
If I had to keep up that facade in a LTR, I would just get too tired and I would have no respect for my GF or myself.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Women secretly strive to be as high maintenance as they can get away with.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Women quickly lose interest in a guy wh is not a challenge. "Hard to get" works. Always saying "yes dear" will cause you to end up in the "lets just be friends" zone or your wife lose interest sexually and emotionally, leaving you, and or having an affair. Show me a wife that cheats and 7 out of 10 times, I'll show you woman married to a good guy with a beta personality


Playing "hard to get" with your own wife is annoying. I'm done purposefully acting outside of who I am to keep her. I'm a good husband, good lover, good dad and a good provider and if thats not good enough for her and she cheats or leaves, then I don't see myself as the problem.

When my wife hit me with "I'm not happy" I took a hard look at myself and our marriage and made the necessary changes as I deem them to be. We also enhanced them with counceling. 

Becoming a part time jerk and intentionally distant to appear not as available to my wife was not part of that.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Complexity said:


> So essentially with women, we have to find a balance between _purposely_ treating them like crap so they'd respect us and being nice enough so they won't hate us?
> 
> I swear women are the most complicated thing ever!


You don't have to treat them like crap but when they can treat you like crap, and get away with it, and you capitulate to her whims, you're history. Read livelaughlovenow recent post. She says, "yes he is nice but_ he puts his foot down on certain issues and he has his boundaries and he is sexy _and I would never cheat. If he was a, "yes dear, you can use me as a doormat and if you leave I'll beg you to come back" kind of guy, she may be singing a different tune.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> You don't have to treat them like crap but when they can treat you like crap, and get away with it, and you capitulate to her whims, you're history. Read livelaughlovenow recent post. She says, "yes he is nice but_ he puts his foot down on certain issues and he has his boundaries and he is sexy _and I would never cheat. If he was a, "yes dear, you can use me as a doormat and if you leave I'll beg you to come back" kind of guy, she may be singing a different tune.


If a woman treats me like crap, I am gone, period. Just have other options.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Just have other options.


Amen bro, Amen.


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## ulove (May 23, 2012)

for women i am sure they like man who uses them very roughly,abusive and doesnt listen to them,i was also very loving in the first years of my my marriage,but my wf started taking me for granted then,i became real man,stopped listening her,started leaving houses odd timings started smoking drinking,now she is reallly care me so i thought for women,we need to rough,


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

ulove said:


> for women i am sure they like man who uses them very roughly,abusive and doesnt listen to them,i was also very loving in the first years of my my marriage,but my wf started taking me for granted then,i became real man,stopped listening her,started leaving houses odd timings started smoking drinking,now she is reallly care me so i thought for women,we need to rough,


Well, that may be true. But, who wants to live like that? there are many alternatives that are much easier and more satisfying to me.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

This topic belongs more in the "Men's clubhouse" than it does here in the "Coping With Infidelity" don't you agree?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Complexity said:


> So essentially with women, we have to find a balance between _purposely_ treating them like crap so they'd respect us and being nice enough so they won't hate us?
> 
> I swear women are the most complicated thing ever!


You do not want a woman who likes to be treated like crap. Not long term anyway. This is not a woman on the marriage short list. She may be good times for a more casual existence.

You want a woman who respects you. Who you really are. So you better respect yourself first. Likewise you want a woman who has self respect. A woman who has issues in this area is big trouble. Women who have self respect issues will tear your heart out.

At most she needs to feel that if she messes up that there are other women who would jump at the chance at you. That is having high value.

But if one worries about what women want that is a moving target. Some more than others. Because you can be that guy that she wants at that time. But down the road she may decide she has lost interest in you because she sees you as too available. Frankly I think they get bored. This is part of that whole looking for the fittest male. 

So I agree with you here, that if you are focused too much on being something you think she wants by either being too much of a Beta or Alpha guy that she just might lose interest.

So focus on being who you are but be someone who can mix it up. Don't fall into a rut. Keep showing her different sides of yourself. This has the benefit of being someone you will like in yourself. Enjoy being ... you.

But all in all we can control who we are. I still think it is fine to be a good guy with an edge that can mix it up. If she can't handle that she is not the woman you were looking for anyway ......


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> No wonder they call it "game". Just a little too boring and exhausting for me. I'd ratner serially date until the woman gets tired of my betaness, then bolt.
> If I had to keep up that facade in a LTR, I would just get too tired and I would have no respect for my GF or myself.


I do think it is possible to serially date and then take a chance on a woman who you feel is not high maintenance. Yes, it is a gamble. But I don't think ALL women will tear your heart out. Not if you got your sh!t together.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> We want a lady on the street and a freak in the bed.
> 
> Usher ft Ludacris & Lil' Jon - Yeah !!! - YouTube
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
For me this is absolutely true & is exactly the way my husband is.
He's is a nice person, would give you the shirt off his back & the last dollar in his pocket if he knew you needed them.
BUT, he also won't put up with anyone's crap either.
In fact he was the first man to ever call me out on my own crap & made sure to let me know he wasn't going to put up with it if we were going to continue to date. 
He's got a good mix of Yin/Yang going on.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Phenix70,

What you posted is what Athol Kay in his ebook *Married Man's Sex Life* endorses. Alpha, Beta, Sigma, Omega, are simply archetypes with good and bad in them. A man should never become an archetype or caricature of something he is not. He should take the best and leave the rest.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I think if you have to intellectualize it and consciously tune your response that much then maybe you're wasting your time. This is me, deal with it or go.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is an article in Men's Health: Why She'll Cheat On You

Why She Cheats | Men's Health

There are some quotes from men who like married women and more.

Here is one excerpt:

Excitement is key
It's easy to assume that an active sex life equals a happy mate. But that's not always the case: Gilmore reports that many of his married bed-mates complained of "Amish sex"—plain and monotonous. In a recent University of Nevada at Las Vegas study, women partly blamed predictable sex on their husbands' familiarity with their bodies—which, ironically, was once a turn-on. But the scientists discovered that familiarity wasn't as much of a problem as lack of emotion was. "I call it his checklist. I can tell you the moves he's going to make. He can get me off, but it's sex. It's not making love," said one study participant.

Your Move: Go dirty.
Married women are less responsive to the more familiar emotional qualities of sex—security, feeling loved, sensing support—than single women are, a study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine found. What they do respond to: explicit cues, such as sensing her wetness, sharing sexual fantasies, and talking dirty. Surprisingly, fulfilling sexual fantasies rates as one of the most emotional sexual acts, according to a 2008 California State University study. "It takes vulnerability to share fantasies," says Gordon. "If your partner is receptive, you feel closer." For women, it's often easier to share with someone new: She's not a wife or mother but a sex goddess. So be her porn star. Jack up the role-playing or bondage dabbling, try new positions, whatever. "When she's sharing—her fantasies, what feels good—take time to 'reflect' what she's saying," says Gordon. "Communicate her disclosures in your own words. That's incredibly validating.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

And, what, exactly, is the woman's responsibility in all this? My XW was very predictable.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> *Not Ted Bundy????? Thank f... for that!!!!*:rofl:


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

My freudiant slip sure says I like true crime more than sitcoms  Either would be a death sentence tho


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