# What Makes Sense



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hey Gang,

You know, I felt good about working through some things with Janie, but I didn't tell any of you about it. And, now I'm asking myself why. I guess the easy answer is pride. I felt kind of stupid with that gushy emotional post about crying ceaselessly when she admitted she was my adversary - thinking we'd finally hit a big breakthrough etc. To have the backtracking happen so quick was bad. To have my temper involved was bad. I simply felt bad about it. I was even more discouraged that she didn't even want to read the gushy post.

But, nobody wants to give play-by-play to all aspects of the rollercoaster. Stuff happens. You deal with it. You get through it.

I've been thinking. It's pretty easy to come onto the site read about boundaries, detachment, being assertive, knocking women off the pedestal, putting things behind you and possibly ending up either feeling more uncertain about yourself, or becoming convinced that NO woman is good, and any one you let in will have to get beyond huge walls of bitterness.

You know I had a passive wife in my first marriage. My codependency helped wreck that relationship also. I was bored to tears.

I've come to realize I need conflict. I need to have something to work through, get past, or reconcile. I like the chase. I like sparring. I like challenge. I like the dividends and rewards from overcoming those challenges. I love to figure out why. Don't care if it makes me dysfunctional. It makes me ... me.

I also don't believe for a moment that love is found 'easily'. Sure hasn't been my experience. Ticks me off a bit when people on the boards will throw out, 'you will find someone that will meet your needs' ... because there is an operative word missing; 'might', you might find someone that you can fall in love with and who meets your needs. I know plenty of guys who date and date and date. Do any of them really share the attraction that I have for Janie? I've known plenty of women in my life. I've liked several of them. Yet, this one intrigues and thrills me - for many of the above reasons and for more than just that.

If WE can find a mutually acceptable way to be together, I'd be thrilled. Cautious, but overjoyed. I now understand the phrase be vulnerable, but with boundaries.

So, I'll continue to observe. That doesn't mean I will tolerate mean-spirited behavior. But, it does mean I still love her.


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I've come to realize I need conflict. I need to have something to work through, get past, or reconcile. I like the chase. I like sparring. I like challenge. I like the dividends and rewards from overcoming those challenges. I love to figure out why. Don't care if it makes me dysfunctional. It makes me ... me.



What was your childhood like?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ImStillHere said:


> What was your childhood like?


Traditional.

However, my father was conflict avoidant. There were intense sibling rivalries between my sisters and myself (2 on 1).

My stepmother eventually told me my father didn't think they treated me right. I found myself trying to earn their love - and acceptance.

Losing my mom to leukemia @18yrs didn't help either. She was the person who settled things. Conflict following her death festered for decades.


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Based on this, it's no surprise that you find comfort in this type of relationship. 

I have to wonder if, eventually, this will get emotionally and physically draining to a point where "you" no longer exist? You identify with this type of relationship. But is the relationship becoming your identity? 

I hope that this makes sense.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ImStillHere said:


> Based on this, it's no surprise that you find comfort in this type of relationship.
> 
> I have to wonder if, eventually, this will get emotionally and physically draining to a point where "you" no longer exist? You identify with this type of relationship. But is the relationship becoming your identity?
> 
> I hope that this makes sense.


ISH,

That's why I classify myself as a recovering codependent.

As you might expect, I have a ravenous curious mind. Insight and the world of ideas thrills me. Be it current events, why a sports team is championship caliber.... the inner working of things simply intrigue.

It's the same with relationships. But, I will freely admit, this particular nut has been the most difficult to crack. Studying yourself and coming to grips with your own blameshifting and anger... your own defensiveness. Trying to figure out where you've gone wrong and looking back over the years and seeing clearly where you've screwed the pooch in so many similar situations and cut yourself off from exactly what you are seeking.

So so much easier to blame the other. It's very tempting. Even more tempting is once you see the other person (and their pain) to EXCUSE unacceptable behavior and swallow the shix sandwiches regularly.

We do teach others how to treat us. What we really should be about is how to treat ourselves well.

If we lead on that, they will follow.


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Conrad said:


> But, I will freely admit, this particular nut has been the most difficult to crack.


I guess this is what I find so...disturbing, for lack of a better word. 

You are so introspective now, in all things. You have a clear(er) view of the world and everyone in it. But, what is it about this particular woman that keeps you in this (never-ending?) relationship cycle?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ImStillHere said:


> I guess this is what I find so...disturbing, for lack of a better word.
> 
> You are so introspective now, in all things. You have a clear(er) view of the world and everyone in it. But, what is it about this particular woman that keeps you in this (never-ending?) relationship cycle?


I'm observing how she responds to me.

I now have boundaries, but I'm still vulnerable to her.

I would consider the other night a huge setback. Her mean-spirited crack missed my heart completely. But, it made me feel worse about our future prospects - no doubt about it.

I'm not hanging in there to endure mean-spirited behavior for years on end.

And, I'm really sad that she decided to leave. She had promised me that she would not do that anymore - especially if I didn't display overreactions or volatility.


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Last questions: Are you afraid that you won't find another Janie? Would you even want someone like her? Your first wife was passive and your second wife is pushing you above and beyond "normal" extremes. Can you find a happy medium--with or without her?

I have to wonder if there is some apprehension within you that fears the end of your relationship. That is, if Janie is out of your life who else would be capable enough to challenge Conrad?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I've come to realize I need conflict. I need to have something to work through, get past, or reconcile. I like the chase. I like sparring. I like challenge. I like the dividends and rewards from overcoming those challenges. I love to figure out why. Don't care if it makes me dysfunctional. It makes me ... me.


This may be true now but it doesn't have to always be this way. True peace comes from learning to just BE. This isn't an easy thing to accomplish but it can be done. The absence of conflict does not equal boredom unless you're addicted to it. It akes some practice at learning how to quiet your mind. And once you learn how and get a taste of how comforting peace is you'll run from conflict, sparring and challenges. 

You can learn to find joy in the little things. Watching a sunset, laughing, playing, reading a good book, watching a good movie, sitting in front of a cozy fire, etc. You will be able to sit quietly with the one you love and just sigh because you are so content.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ImStillHere said:


> Last questions: Are you afraid that you won't find another Janie? Would you even want someone like her? Your first wife was passive and your second wife is pushing you above and beyond "normal" extremes. Can you find a happy medium--with or without her?
> 
> I have to wonder if there is some apprehension within you that fears the end of your relationship. That is, if Janie is out of your life who else would be capable enough to challenge Conrad?


ISH,

Loss always involves apprehension.

I've written about this before, but I have not been tempted to simply say, "Thanks for helping me so much, now go to hell."

If you review my others threads, you'll see that each incident of bad treatment now chips away at my attachment to her.

This bothers me but - emotionally - it's entirely appropriate.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Conrad, 

There's this woman at work who is so smart and there's just something about her that attracts me. I feel there's an attraction between us but we both play it good since it would be problematic going out with someone at work. If it doesn't work out it would be so uncomfortable. But there's something about her. She's sometimes happy and others she's kind of pissed (to me is cute). Others have pointed out she's a little crazy. And then it hit me ... fvck. Seems like I love crazy. What problems is she having (I started thinking) HELLO FIXER! It's in me although I hate it. Could it be that without them we are not us? 

Perhaps you love JANIE so much because she hurt you so much. Maybe the fact there's someone on this earth that can take you on such a roallercoaster ride is reason for you to feel attracted, powerless (not really because you have set boundaries). 

Am I making sense? Hope so. 

I for one, have decided to NOT LOOK BACK. And although it hurts and I still love my wife. I'll die alone if need be but internally my integrity and self-respect will breathe in me. 

Love is so much fun but love hurts so much too.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

Your feelings on the matter sure make me look inward, as well. It feels good to shed that co-dependent nice guy skin. But it's hard, as well.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok. Just re-read what I wrote. It don't make sense. I said you love Janie because she hurt you. 

:/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SkyHigh said:


> Your feelings on the matter sure make me look inward, as well. It feels good to shed that co-dependent nice guy skin. But it's hard, as well.


If it was easy, what would we have to talk about?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lifescript said:


> She's sometimes happy and others she's kind of pissed (to me is cute). Others have pointed out she's a little crazy. And then it hit me ... fvck. Seems like I love crazy. What problems is she having (I started thinking) HELLO FIXER! It's in me although I hate it. Could it be that without them we are not us?


Oh this is an easy one. You're attracted to crazy simply because it's familiar. It's all you know - and yes I know what your family of origin was like.

However just because it's your normal doesn't mean you have to stay there. When I first decided to date a 'nice' guy he bored me to tears. Where was the drama, the fights, the yelling, the screaming, etc.? I found I didn't know how to be with someone healthy. But I learned. I learned to just BE, to live in quiet with someone who actually calls when they say they will, someone that doesn't scream at me and someone who is the same today as they were yesterday. Their moods don't blow in the wind like all the other toxic people I dated.

I had to decide to be UNCOMFORTABLE with nice until that became my new norm. In short I had to quit trying to create drama with my nice guy husband when there was none to be had. Make sense?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lifescript said:


> Ok. Just re-read what I wrote. It don't make sense. I said you love Janie because she hurt you.
> 
> :/


I think you need to look harder.


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## Lifescript (Mar 12, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Oh this is an easy one. You're attracted to crazy simply because it's familiar. It's all you know - and yes I know what your family of origin was like.
> 
> However just because it's your normal doesn't mean you have to stay there. When I first decided to date a 'nice' guy he bored me to tears. Where was the drama, the fights, the yelling, the screaming, etc.? I found I didn't know how to be with someone healthy. But I learned. I learned to just BE, to live in quiet with someone who actually calls when they say they will, someone that doesn't scream at me and someone who is the same today as they were yesterday. Their moods don't blow in the wind like all the other toxic people I dated.
> 
> I had to decide to be UNCOMFORTABLE with nice until that became my new norm. In short I had to quit trying to create drama with my nice guy husband when there was none to be had. Make sense?


Totally.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Someone who is challenging, crazy, unpredictable... chaos on two legs. Seems logical that one would run the other way.

But I get what you are saying. 
Because they make you GROW. 
It's good for you, to a point. Forces you to learn. 
Whether you want to or not.....it's right there in your face.
"okay, how I handle THIS one?"

A balance is okay. That's what I tell myself, anyways. 
As long as you have the energy to do the dance.

No regrets, Conrad. go for your heart.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

deejov said:


> Someone who is challenging, crazy, unpredictable... chaos on two legs. Seems logical that one would run the other way.
> 
> But I get what you are saying.
> Because they make you GROW.
> ...


Italicized, bolded, and underlined.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

All I can say is.

I'm glad you finally see it.

I think SVL would say the same.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Conrad: How long has this detachment been going on for you? I did not read through your original threads.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Numb in Ohio said:


> Conrad: How long has this detachment been going on for you? I did not read through your original threads.


I started detaching the DAY I confronted me.

That was in November. I actually got mad at my therapist for not advising me on how to handle something.

I mean seriously. Here I "gave myself permission" to cuss Janie out in the middle of the night. Of course, I rationalized it because she never restrained herself with me, whatever.

Did I really need a therapist to tell that THAT was wrongheaded?

Are you kidding?

When I realized I was angry and blameshifting on my therapist, I broke down and cried like a baby.

I contacted Janie and apologized to her - in person. It was likely the most heartfelt apology I've ever issued. I really had no idea. I was asleep. DeMello demands I be awake. I now am.

I realized I needed to love me. I started that day. I'm not dependent on anyone else to do it. And, as people have responded to me - positively or negatively - I've taken note of that as well. I'm drawn to people that operate with integrity and treat me well.

I slowly but surely detach from people that don't.


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