# Sex: Novelty and Love not combined?



## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

My wife and I have been dating for 12 years (since we were 16), and married for 5. We have a 1+yr old daughter, whom we adore. My wife recently came home and told me that, although she doesn't want one today, in the future (3 yrs, 5yrs, maybe 10yrs) she wants to have an open relationship. 

My Wife and I were virgins when we met and have never had sex with anyone else. We are 28 and 29, and we are still trying to have kids. Realistically, I probably have 2 maybe 3 years at the most before she asks me to start the open relationship (after we have one more kid. do not want the mess of "whose my dad"). Also, I will start seeing a counselor about this in 2 weeks. She says (and I absolutely believe) she has never had an affair or cheated on me. She and I are best friends and have been in love almost as long as I can remember. She is not pushing me at all, and wants me to decide for myself what is best. Neither of us is religious or uses religion as arguments. Logic is our argumentative tool.

She believes there are two types of relationships, sexual and emotional. Put them together and you get love. Keep them apart, and, to her, they are just manageable relationships. Normal friends, and friends-only-for-the-benefits. She would treat the sexual partners like a toy, and cut them off at the first sign of love or affection. She would probably have repeat customers, because that's easier than finding new ones all the time. She would manage to only set up encounters when it did not impact our family or her and my life. If at any time we started falling apart, she and i would stop to heal. She also said she never has to be in an open relationship, and that I am the most important thing to her, period. But she wants to at least tell me she is interested in it now so that I can think about it and (hopefully for her) decide its okay with me. From my perspective, I cannot say I love her without giving the open relationship idea a total and complete workover and do my best to accept the idea.

It took me a couple weeks of asking her questions to get to this very distinct and logical (but earth shattering for me) point, which appears to be at the crux of it all. She thinks that loving sexual relationships are totally different from novel (brand new) sexual relationships.

Btw: by loving sex I mean sex between two people who respect and care for each other, and do not "use" each other for sexual satisfaction. I want to please her, she wants to please me, and we both benefit. in addition, we care immensely for each other due to the years of love and experience together, so sex has meaning between us, that it would never have with someone new who was totally detached.

I told her I feel like I am inadequate for her, and she said me feeling inadequate for not being able to have novel sex is like a fish feeling inadequate for not being able to fly. In her mind, it is practically speaking impossible for me to produce sexual experience of a new sexual partner, and vice versa. 

The moment I grasped the concept was earth shattering. But I still stand. Still married. Still in love. 

The ask:
What do you think about the concept of novel sex and loving sex as totally separate like flying and swimming? What are some positive arguments for adding the novel sex (with others) to our marriage? What are some arguments for never having novel sex again? How does having novel sex improve one's life, when combined with loving sex? How would you argue that novel sex and loving sex is unrealistic separation of sex?


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## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

This is an interesting question. I have never had sex with someone else within my marriage. I am not sure. I think it all depends on the relationship. I think it would take a hell of a lot of honesty which doesn't generally occur in relationships let alone marriages. I think there is always someone who will be jealous of the other, or resentful. If you are contented sexually with your spouse/partner, then what is the purpose of seeking out other sexual experiences? I guess if you see sex as a purely physical satisfaction I can understand this, but not sure how it would function within a so called marriage or relationship with someone else. 

I guess I can also understand wanting to experience sex with other people, I'm just not sure that this is possible within a committed relationship without animosity. Particularly if you both were virgins before meeting. Perhaps if you'd both had multiple partners and many sexual experiences before meeting it might be possible?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

For someone who has never had sex with anyone but you, your wife has a lot of opinions that she has no real idea how she will handle it.

If you go through with this.. is she the only one who gets to do this? Or will you also have sex with other women?

Few marriages can survive being open. 

.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I think this is dangerous to go down the road to an open marriage. Maybe your wife is just curious about what sex would be like with someone other than you. Most couples view sex as a physical expression of their love for one another and sharing that intimate act with others with emotional detachment is hard for most people. One can share one's physical body without emotions but rarely can you stop your heart from getting involved by self will.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

This is madness. What kind of people or other outside influences has she had recently?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OneLoveForLife said:


> My wife and I have been dating for 12 years (since we were 16), and married for 5. We have a 1+yr old daughter, whom we adore. My wife recently came home and told me that, although she doesn't want one today, in the future (3 yrs, 5yrs, maybe 10yrs) she wants to have an open relationship.
> 
> My Wife and I were virgins when we met and have never had sex with anyone else. We are 28 and 29, and we are still trying to have kids. Realistically, I probably have 2 maybe 3 years at the most before she asks me to start the open relationship (after we have one more kid. do not want the mess of "whose my dad"). Also, I will start seeing a counselor about this in 2 weeks. She says (and I absolutely believe) she has never had an affair or cheated on me. She and I are best friends and have been in love almost as long as I can remember. She is not pushing me at all, and wants me to decide for myself what is best. Neither of us is religious or uses religion as arguments. Logic is our argumentative tool.
> 
> ...


The whole point of marriage is to be there for one another (not open to relationships, sexual or otherwise with others while still married). This kind of thing will probably destroy your marriage. You have to tell her, if that is what she wants, she can have all the sexual relationships she wants but after you divorce her as you will not be sharing her with anyone else, period. Sorry but your wife needs a reality check.


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Hello Keenwa and elegirl, thanks for responding!

Ive been out of town for the past week and havent been able to get a full explanation of why she wants sex with others (these phone calls can be tough with no facial expressions or reassuring touch), except that its a different type of experience that she would enjoy having in her life. She has mentioned one other reasons also: she says sex is great with me, but she would like to find new ways to please me. She says we can learn sexual skill from others and make our sex life even better. ill try to find oyt more this week. we plan on spending a lot of time discussing this.

learning more about sex through others makes sense to me, because ive always been the type of person to want to be great at what i do. And i too want to be better for her, but my approach would be different. Id prefer reading books, watching videos, and maybe even going to sex shows before even considering sex with another person.

Im also concerned about the risks of losing her and my marraige. When i ask her about this, she says she is a strong person and it will not change her love for me. She says im her one love. she believes in our ability to work through anything difficult that will come our way.

Yes, i would get to have sex with other women. Im not sure that i would though. I mean, i think other women are attractive. But I think my wife is the hottest woman i know. I love her body and i couldnt imagine needing more. To her benefit, my wife also said she doesnt need more and is very happy with our sex life. To her, sex with a person she does not have emotional attachment to is totally different and separate from than sex with someone she loves. They are like basketball and football. Both are great physical games but you can play football and still love basketball. Why would someone not play football, just because they love basketball. Even more to the point, why would someone need to play basketball and football with the same people? It seems more than reasonable to have totally different friends for playing each. Yet when applied to sex, this logic feels strange


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks for the reply imperfect world.

She works with a young group of very sexually active people where cheating and open relationships are discussed openly. for example, her coworkers dont hide their extra marrital affairs and discuss them openly. She told me she talked with multiple people about this before coming to thus conclusion, but hasnt told anyone her stance on it. She does not want to tell others because she doesnt want the sexual attention from her coworkers. To her, this only works if she can keep it neat and tidy. Only sex with people who have nothing to do with us, and never have sex with people you have emotional relationshionship or work with. Open rel stays private and is very discrete, and never affects the home life or it is put to an end.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Well, OLFL, you have some research and thinking to do. An open relationship is only one of many possible approaches to get what she wants, and of the various options, I think it's the hardest to implement without problems. We have an open relationship, and it's been that way (on and off) for 15 years. The biggest issues that typically arise are jealousy, and concerns that if you're _both _participating (which is only fair), one will be far more successful than the other, which leads to envy. These can be overcome, but with significant time and effort in many cases.

Two other models to consider: swinging (you do this together, so you are both getting sexual variety - no one is left out or left behind); polyamory, where you each separately pursue other romantic relationships and combine them to some degree with your existing relationship. Swinging is the easiest transition with the fewest potential problems, and if you eventually agree to her request, may be the best place to start - and it's the easiest to end if it doesn't work, with the least chance of jealousy or envy interfering.

We've done all of these, in various combinations at different times. We had some early - moderate - problems and worked through them, and have enjoyed the results ever since.

We've also seen other people succeed. And fail. There have been few actual break ups because of it, but those that did were because there wasn't good communication before and during, or one person went along to get along (or were pushed or coerced into participating) rather than being fully on board and proactive. The main problem I see with what you wrote is your wife's expectation that it will be easy to stop seeing someone when any feelings develop - and they may. If she is good at self-control and compartmentalizing, this can and does work - but can you do the same? The ethical problem is that you are treating people like objects, which is also wrong - unless they know and agree to this, which some will since they are looking for the same thing.

You need to be at least a little curious and intrigued about the possibilities, else you won't give them honest consideration. And you don't have to have well-articulated reasons to decide it's not for you. You can just say No, but that doesn't show that you've at least tried to wrap you head around the idea even if you fail to do so.

Books and links:
The Ethical Slvt by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy

Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships by Tristan Taormino

More Than Two: A practical guide to ethical polyamory by Franklin Veaux (also a web site by this name)

https://members.swinglifestyle.com/articles/ - articles about swinging (many others exist if you google)


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks maritallonliness.

Im also worried that biology will pull her to another man, and cause our marraige to fall apart. Thats one reason im spending so much time thinking this through and getting counseling. She is the most important person in my life, abd i would never want to risk losing her. On the other hand, i also want her to have the best life possible. We only live once, a concept she is will aware of given her lifr experiences. i want both of us to experience and enjoy as much of life as we can


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Thank you for the reply married but happy! Your post was fantastic. your post was so detailed and experienced, that im going to give it some time to sink in and respond later tonight when i am sitting at my computer. I wanted to thank you though, because your response was great


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

OneLoveforLife, I've had a lot of sex with a lot of different partners. I'm now married to a husband who loves me but doesn't want sex with me. From my experience, it's possible to have sex with somebody you're in love with with no emotions involved whatsoever (which is what happens between me and my H as he sees sex as a recreational activity) and you can have very tender, loving sex in a one night stand. Whether it's loving and emotional or just a quick shag depends entirely on the emotions of the two people involved at that particular time. Not sure whether or not this will help. One thing I will say is that when you got married your wife committed to have sex only with you for the duration of your marriage. That's the problem I'm facing right now, I'm married to a man who is not interested in having sex with me (or anybody else) and because of my marriage vows it's not morally permissible for me to get sex elsewhere.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

OLFL, if you tell her that you don't want to do this, do you think she'll respect and abide by that? Do you think this would cause her to have resentment toward you? 

Conversely--if you agree to it, can you see yourself ending up resenting her for it, especially since it doesn't sound like you're comfortable with the idea.?

Some people are able to view sex as something completely separate from a loving relationship. I'm not one of those people. I'd be heartbroken if my wife ever suggested that.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

You really need to have deep and detailed conversations with your W before ever agreeing to open your M.

It strikes me odd that she is so certain about what sex with others would be like, considering that she has never experienced it.

Either she is very naive on the subject, or she has dabbled some already and is now looking to open the M up out of guilt.

You also need to find out if she already has a specific person in her mind...and you may need to investigate a little to check up on this.

She may have already developed at lest an emotional attachment to someone, probably a co-worker considering the work environment you say she has.

If there is a specific guy, you need to say no immediately....that situation will not just stay FWB.

I have been single most of my life....I have had many partners.

Most were fairly casual, FWB type situations where we both agreed we were free to see others....an open relationship works in these situations because there is no commitment....and many of them came to an end because my partners did finally make an emotional connection with one of their 'others'...no harm or foul IMO because we were not committed to each other, so the FWB relationships just ended with no bitterness.

I have also had 2 LT serious relationships....these relationships were committed and monogamous.

Personally, having been in both types, I think it is VERY dangerous to try to combine them....most people are not mature enough to put in the hard work and extra communication it takes to make open M work.

I know 2 couples who have managed to do it, and 7 who couldn't, and 5 of those 7 eventually were torn apart by the problems the lifestyle brought up.

From my experience, I also think Married but Happy is right about swinging, where both partners are present and playing together is the least dangerous of the options....especially if the couples have a rigid rule that there is no playing alone without the other partner present.

Both successful couples I know use this rule.


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

The way I see it is that this is all one sided for your wifes enjoyment and can be extremely dangerous for you. Not fair to an OM who she leads on to making him believe there are mutual feelings for each other. At this point he feels YOU may be the obstacle of having her 100% attention. People do crazy things for love and sex and there are countless stories of love triangle bad endings in which one or more of the participants have taken the eternal dirt nap. I would tell her that if she isn't happy with you the alternative is to be listed as single. This then takes you out of the equation and you part with integrity as good friends and parents


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

My opinion is, don't have more kids with her if you are NOT willing to let her do this. I would have a hard time trusting that she would really be ok if you said no. And then you're stuck with child support for 2 kids.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Be aware: she already has someone lined up. Very few married women ask their husband for permission to boink someone else as a pure hypothetical question. Almost always they already have someone they want to boink, and they are asking husband's permission so they can feel less guilty when they give in to their desire. You are being played. Get out of the game unless you have secretly been waiting to ask her the same question. And don't say "yes" until YOU have someone waiting in the wings.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have had both totally monogamous and poly relationships...and here's a bit of truth for your consideration...

While I do understand the appeal of having a poly or open marriage, the bottom line is that I only wanted that arrangement when I wasn't sexually satisfied with my main partner.

Now that I'm with my current husband? I never want another person to touch me again. No one else compares.

Again I understand the desire for variety, but when you are with certain partners you just don't care about variety anymore. So when people start talking about needing variety, I just assume they are not that fulfilled with what they have at home.

Another thing people forget to consider is that you may get up to bat with a new person and then find there's zero sexual compatibility. If your wife has never had horrible sex she's in for quite a shock. Just because you are physically attracted to someone doesn't automatically mean sex with them will be good for you.

My advice to you is to tell your wife if she wants this she's going to have to leave you. You clearly are not on board with it and you should not enter any agreement with her unless you want it for yourself, not just because she does.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> For someone who has never had sex with anyone but you, your wife has a lot of opinions that she has no real idea how she will handle it.
> 
> If you go through with this.. is she the only one who gets to do this? Or will you also have sex with other women?
> 
> ...


Reposting thing because I feel there is a lot of truth here.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

OneLoveForLife said:


> Hello Keenwa and elegirl, thanks for responding!
> 
> Ive been out of town for the past week and havent been able to get a full explanation of why she wants sex with others (these phone calls can be tough with no facial expressions or reassuring touch), except that its a different type of experience that she would enjoy having in her life. She has mentioned one other reasons also: *she says sex is great with me, but she would like to find new ways to please me. She says we can learn sexual skill from others and make our sex life even better.* ill try to find oyt more this week. we plan on spending a lot of time discussing this.


I'm sorry, but this is a copout. There are plenty of ways to "learn" new sexual skills that don't require taking on new sexual partners. So, if I were you, I wouldn't buy this reason at all. 



> learning more about sex through others makes sense to me, because ive always been the type of person to want to be great at what i do. And i too want to be better for her, but my approach would be different. Id prefer reading books, watching videos, and maybe even going to sex shows before even considering sex with another person.


Precisely my point. Having sex with another person is no guarantee that you will learn anything new at all. In fact, it could cause issues in the bedroom rather than solve them. 



> Im also concerned about the risks of losing her and my marraige. When i ask her about this, she says she is a strong person and it will not change her love for me. She says im her one love. she believes in our ability to work through anything difficult that will come our way.


And she's saying this without any actual experience in an open relationship. It's easy to say, "I'll still love you. That won't change" when you're _not yet_ in an open relationship. The reality could be very, very different. 



> Yes, i would get to have sex with other women. Im not sure that i would though. I mean, i think other women are attractive. But I think my wife is the hottest woman i know. I love her body and i couldnt imagine needing more. To her benefit, my wife also said she doesnt need more and is very happy with our sex life. To her, sex with a person she does not have emotional attachment to is totally different and separate from than sex with someone she loves. They are like basketball and football. Both are great physical games but you can play football and still love basketball. Why would someone not play football, just because they love basketball.


I get the point, hate the analogy. Marriage is a very...if not sacred, then at least emotional and delicate union. It's the most unique of any and all other relationships and it shouldn't be made light of. The sexual relationship between partners is one of the most important parts of the marriage, and can and does make or break the entire relationship. 

On your wedding day you made a vow. People change, and that's understandable. Very few of us stay the same from the day we marry to the day we die. Your wife has, clearly, found something that appeals to her that perhaps never appealed to her before. However, that doesn't mean that she gets to dictate to you what does and doesn't happen in your relationship. There are _so many_ risks going into this...I admire your willingness to consider it, but this is not something I would ever recommend to anyone. It takes a very unique couple to make an open relationship work. 



> Even more to the point, why would someone need to play basketball and football with the same people? It seems more than reasonable to have totally different friends for playing each. Yet when applied to sex, this logic feels strange


That's because it is strange for a lot of people. I'm not against open relationships, but _only_ if both people are _completely_ in agreement on it.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

It seems she is just asking for a license to cheat, see other guys and if it doesn't work for her, she can get back inot your marriage and if she finds someone she likes along the way, I guarantee she will dump you. Since you seem definitely not ok with this, I think you need to put your foot down and say no. If she says, fine I'll get a divorce then let her, I think that's what will happen anyway. Probably the only way your marriage will survive is if you are able to talk her out of it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

This is TOO DANGEROUS of a ploy to use so I AM STRAIGHT UP TELLING YOU NOT TO DO IT.

But from a purely theoretical stand point, it would interesting to see how she reacted if you were to come home one day and tell her the following:

"You know....I've been thinking about your request recently and wondering if I would really enjoy sex with another woman or feel any emotional pull. So I went out recently and hooked up with a girl so I could find out for sure."

The reason I say it would be interesting is because I suspect she is ONLY thinking about the sex SHE will be having and the thought excites her, since she has no experience and it is all fantasy thoughts at this point.

But I would bet money that she would be freaked out and devastated if she thought YOU had sex with another woman.

The more I have thought about your situation....the more I think you better say no to her desire.

It's too dangerous IMO.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your wife is a fool making foolish arguments and you seem confused or passive about it.

Take it from someone with massive experience compared to you. I have been with many women prior to my wife and none of them prepared me for Mrs. Conan. Individuals differ greatly. We have improved much over 23 years and have had both loving, affectionate sex and down and dirty use each other like toys sex. We continue to improve because we work with each other.

I have better sex with my wife than I ever could have imagined. No other woman comes close because we have experimented with each other and keep learning and improving all the time.

It seems strange that she just brought this up out of the blue.

Do you desire to fvck other women while the mother of your children gets plowed by whatever swinging dyck she finds?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. Who the hell is your wife talking to? There is no damn way she could know about what should sex is like with someone she doesn't care about if she has only been with you!

The analogies she makes could only be made by someone who has experienced them.

Your wife sounds full of shyt to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

When I was a kid, I had a cousin who was so much into roller coasters that he lived, eat and breath them. He was an evangelist for roller coasters. The funny thing is that he had never taken a ride in one. That change one day when we went to a theme park and went on the tallest one in the park. To say that I was apprehensive would be an understatement but I grew a pair and with my cousin, hopped on it. Sure it was scary but I soon found myself enjoying the adrenaline rush but my cousin looked like he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown throughout the whole experience. The ride ended and as soon as we got out the car, my cousin went to the closest trash can and puked his brains out. From that day on, my cousin lost all desire for roller coasters and other thrill rides. Can you say the word "irony"?

The same thing can happen in your situation. Your wife may end up hating open marriage so much while you may end up not wanting to give it up. But as the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" and your wife would be wise to remember that.


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks everyone, especially Created2Write and MarriedButHappy

Speaking of roller coasters, I've been on one heck of one for the past few weeks. Many discussions and counselling sessions later, I have a goal to believe in the following belief structure:

-Sex is like eating a good meal or running a 4k. It is a great time and better with others, but does not need to be done with the same person all of the time.

-Being in a loving healthy relationship is about two people who are independent sharing their worlds with one another for the betterment of both people. My role in our relationship is not to bind her or hold her back from living how she wants. It is to promote more healthy, happy experience and to be there for her when the **** hits the fan to help her pull it together. If she wants to be a social worker for example, and it sounds like a bad idea, i'll share all my concerns with her. But at the end of the day, if she really wants it, I will absolutely support it. Its her choice, not mine. I'm here to support and help her, and to enjoy the ride.

-Sex and love are not resources. The world is full of sex and love, and if my wife has sex or loves someone else, she can still have lots and lots of sex and love for me. 

I've read "Opening Up" and I'm about half way through "The Ethical s l u t". These books have been instrumental in creating my new belief structure. My old (and still very present belief structure) is the following:

-My wife is mine, and everything she does affects and reflects on me

-Sex is love, and sex with someone else means you love another.

-You can only love one person as a husband/wife. If you fall in love with someone else, you have to leave your current partner to pursue that new relationship

I'm struggling to switch belief structures because I see new, but very straight forward, flaws in my old belief structure. most of them came to light be the massive truck that hit my chest when my wife told me she wanted to sex other people too. Why did that hurt me so much? How did her desire to have sex with others actually have an effect on my relationship with her? Realistically, she has between 36 and 50 hours a week that i'm not with her, due to our opposite work schedules. She could almost have another husband and it might not impact my time with her. Realistically, since I imagine someone else will point this out, she could be sexing anyone and everyone else she wants and i would never know. But then I think, if she is, and its not affecting my relationship with her, then why the hell should I care?

I recently watched "That Awkward Moment" with my wife, and there is a scene where Zac Effron and Imogen Poots are having sex, and laughing and joking and really enjoying themselves. And I said to my wife "Why do you want to do that with other people?". Then about 10 minutes later I realized something. In that scene, both Zac and Imogen are SO happy and are both really enjoying themselves. Why WOULDN'T I want my wife to do that? Why would I try to keep her form experiencing a happy moment like that? Its like watching someone jetski and say "You can only have that much fun with me". 

Regardless of all this positive energy, I wanted to address a few of the approaches about lies and divorce. I have seriously considered (and still struggle with) the idea that my wife is lying to me and either already has someone else lined up, is already ****ing other people, has already ****ed someone else, is regularly fantasizing about others, is unsatisfied with our sex life, thinks I'm a bad lay, or wants to find someone else to have a good relationship with and leave me. Trust this, I feel like **** a lot of the time and just want to divorce her or kill myself and end the pain. But you know what I always end up thinking? **** those negative thoughts. They help no one. I have no proof of any of that. If there is no evidence, then why even lend it credence? If i believe those things, I might as well believe the world will end in 2016 or there is an island of 100 perfect women awaiting my arrival when I die. I have never been the type of person to believe things that don't have proof. So, its not that all of those deceitful, lying logical paths may not be true. Its that I have no proof and therefore I have no reason to give them credence. If they turn out to be correct, then I am going to be in a hell of a mess, regardless of whether or not I believed them before hand. I will not sacrifice what could be an incredible marriage because I "thought" my wife was cheating/lying. I'm going to trust her to the end. If she ends up being a liar, then i start over.

I want to thank everyone for their responses. Regardless of whether they were about divorce, lying, feelings, trust, respect, etc. I appreciate your feedback. Every perspective is helpful to me and gives me a new way to view the situation. I'm still working towards being okay again. I'm very insecure and need a lot of work on my boundaries and confidence, but I'll get there with time. If she can't wait that long for me to be happy, then I can't force her to stay. But I'll try my best to be a loving husband and a great father until then. She is the best thing that happened to my world. I love and cherish her perspective on life, and her way of living. I miss her when I'm gone, and I love it when we are together. Her humor and excitement about life give me inspiration. Life is a crazy adventure. I'm taking it on with everything I've got.

Thank you!!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I would suggest you look up the scientific research as well. From there, things do not look so idealistic. Love is a hormonal based system. Your wife could form a stronger attachment to someone else, making her more addicted to the new person. It is a risk you must keep in mind.

Love is not an emotion, but a drive, that is why we suffer withdrawal symptoms when we lose love ones, or they leave us. Romantic love, attachments, and lust are separate drives that are connected as well.

Attachments are limited to our biology, and we can only have the time and energy to maintain a few intimate relationships.

That energy, or new relationship energy they are talking about is hormones. Romantic love has the same effect as heroin on the brain, and research does show that.

I know of a poly woman who let go of her other attachments because she found someone she is madly in love with, and she has been madly in love with him for 10 years, her other partners do not invoke the same level of reaction as this one person does, and it motivates her to spend all her time and energy with him. Even now, she has no need to look for another because she is stuck in the honeymoon phase with this person.

The stronger the bond, the stronger the motivation is, the more dopamine is released.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> That energy, or new relationship energy they are talking about is hormones. Romantic love has the same effect as heroin on the brain, and research does show that.
> 
> I know of a poly woman who let go of her other attachments because she found someone she is madly in love with, and she has been *madly in love with him for 10 years, her other partners do not invoke the same level of reaction as this one person does*, and it motivates her to spend all her time and energy with him. Even now, she has no need to look for another because she is stuck in the honeymoon phase with this person.
> 
> The stronger the bond, the stronger the motivation is, the more dopamine is released.


_(Thanks for the update, OLFL. Please remember that while these concepts you are reading about make a lot of sense, actually feeling the ways described can take a LOT of effort and create a lot of pain along the way. It's not easy for most to overcome the social conditioning we gain growing up. And even if you do, your partner(s) may not!)_

This is true, Mr. Fisty. But is it a bad thing? My wife and I are still madly in love after 15 years, so perhaps it's dopamine. Even with all the dopamine, we have been in a poly relationship for a while and have loved others (not just sex), we've been successful swingers (just sex, maybe friendship), and still have a somewhat open relationship (I've had a FWB for over 3 years, emphasis of the Friend part, but the benefits have been great too).

The point I want to make is that we also feel that if someone else truly makes either of us that much happier, that we wouldn't want to stop them from pursuing that. *We love each other enough to let them go.* Hard? Of course it would be (perhaps even devastating for a while), but we also have high self-esteem and self-worth, so figure we'd find someone else eventually. (Right now we can't imagine that we'd ever want or need to, short of a major personality disorder that leads to abusive behaviors or complete neglect!)

We _choose_ each day to be in this relationship because we WANT to be in it. To us, that is the only _good _reason for staying.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OneLoveForLife said:


> I'm struggling to switch belief structures because I see new, but very straight forward, flaws in my old belief structure. most of them came to light be *the massive truck that hit my chest when my wife told me she wanted to sex other people too*. Why did that hurt me so much? How did her desire to have sex with others actually have an effect on my relationship with her? Realistically, she has between 36 and 50 hours a week that i'm not with her, due to our opposite work schedules. She could almost have another husband and it might not impact my time with her. Realistically, since I imagine someone else will point this out, she could be sexing anyone and everyone else she wants and i would never know. But then I think, if she is, and its not affecting my relationship with her, then why the hell should I care?
> 
> Regardless of all this positive energy, I wanted to address a few of the approaches about lies and divorce. I have seriously considered (and still struggle with) the idea that my wife is lying to me and either already has someone else lined up, is already ****ing other people, has already ****ed someone else, is regularly fantasizing about others, is unsatisfied with our sex life, thinks I'm a bad lay, or wants to find someone else to have a good relationship with and leave me. *Trust this, I feel like **** a lot of the time and just want to divorce her or kill myself and end the pain.* But you know what I always end up thinking? **** those negative thoughts. They help no one. I have no proof of any of that. If there is no evidence, then why even lend it credence? If i believe those things, I might as well believe the world will end in 2016 or there is an island of 100 perfect women awaiting my arrival when I die. I have never been the type of person to believe things that don't have proof. So, its not that all of those deceitful, lying logical paths may not be true. Its that I have no proof and therefore I have no reason to give them credence. If they turn out to be correct, then I am going to be in a hell of a mess, regardless of whether or not I believed them before hand. I will not sacrifice what could be an incredible marriage because I "thought" my wife was cheating/lying. I'm going to trust her to the end. If she ends up being a liar, then i start over.
> 
> ...


If you open up your relationship, it is already doomed. The bolded parts above show that you are not actually down for this, you've been coerced by the idea that your wife will leave you if you don't change your mind about your own wants and boundaries. This is NEVER the place to start an open relationship from.

I'm concerned for your mental health. You are having suicidal thoughts and then trying to ignore them. Those thoughts are trying to tell you something...they are trying to tell you that opening up your marriage is going to kill your spirit.

People are either on board with an open relationship or they are not, but you can't make yourself be on board.

I'm really sad for the pain you are going to go through as you watch her walk out the door to sleep with other men while you pretend to be ok with it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> _(Thanks for the update, OLFL. Please remember that while these concepts you are reading about make a lot of sense, actually feeling the ways described can take a LOT of effort and create a lot of pain along the way. It's not easy for most to overcome the social conditioning we gain growing up. And even if you do, your partner(s) may not!)_
> 
> This is true, Mr. Fisty. But is it a bad thing? My wife and I are still madly in love after 15 years, so perhaps it's dopamine. Even with all the dopamine, we have been in a poly relationship for a while and have loved others (not just sex), we've been successful swingers (just sex, maybe friendship), and still have a somewhat open relationship (I've had a FWB for over 3 years, emphasis of the Friend part, but the benefits have been great too).
> 
> ...



It is not terrible, but he needs to know that his wife could find someone more compatible.

Your bond to your wife is probably so strong that no other attachment could rival it.

I enjoy the monogamish lifestyle as Dan Savage coined it, and I take the risk involved as well.

My first and only poly relationship had my gf move away with her bf when he completed college, and got a job out of state. She made a choice to go with him.

Sometimes, people end up being a secondary partner.

I learned to be highly independent, know that relationships do not always last a lifetime, and I have that in mind with every relationship I have been in.

I am curious though, could you be okay with being a secondary if the chance ever happens? I will be honest here, and say i really do not know. I didn't mind when I was in my early twenties, but now in my mid-twenties, I think my view on it has changed. I do have friends that do not mind, since they are career orientated, so they do not have much time and energy to put into one.

I think for me at the time, I did not have the time with school and a full tiem job going on, so I was okay with being a secondary, a weekend bf.

We also have to condition ourselves not to be competitive either, which we naturally are. Our genitals are made for competition. Females have more of the mate poaching genes, so it is not all societal conditioning. There are some who are genetically made not to be the attached types, they have less oxytocin receptors and are incapable of being in a relationship like yours. It is what it is. So some people are born with the capability of being more loving than others. Our genetics are more on a gradient when it comes to our behavior. We range from monogamish to promiscuous in how our genes express themselves.

Congrats on the happy marriage, I probably will never get married. :lol: Us millenials are starting to move away from that. Why waste money on a ceremony when I can buy a car. :d


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> We also have to condition ourselves not to be competitive either, which we naturally are. Our genitals are made for competition. *Females have more of the mate poaching genes, so it is not all societal conditioning. There are some who are genetically made not to be the attached types, they have less oxytocin receptors and are incapable of being in a relationship like yours.* It is what it is. So some people are born with the capability of being more loving than others. Our genetics are more on a gradient when it comes to our behavior. *We range from monogamish to promiscuous in how our genes express themselves.*


Please provide proof for any of the bolded?

There is none.

All of us are wired for non-monogamy and all of us capable of monogamy.

There's no "some people are more genetically promiscuous", we are all genetically promiscuous and we are all making social choices not to act on it if we are monogamous.

Where are you getting your "science" data? Oh let me guess....some evo-psyche crap.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Something really stinks about this. What we have here is one partner in the marriage who already read the book and has started planning it out and the other partner (you) still trying to grasp the situation. In other words, she way ahead of you on this and to me it raises one great big serious red flag.

 In order for a open marriage to work, both parties have to agree to it and discuss it between them. In your case you got blindsided with this and it makes me wonder if she hasn't already had a preview of it already.

Another thing is this. For both of you to have a open relationship, it's a fact. A woman can walk into a room full of men and walk out with her choice in five minuets so it wont be hard for her dance card to be filled 24/7. For a guy it's not that easy and to be honest, your going to be on the losing end of this.

If it's me, I tell her that when she's ready for a open marriage is when I go find a lawyer and wish her luck getting her fill but not until the divorce is final. She has this whole thing planned out and I got a feeling that she'll put it in play with or without you so if I were you, I would let her know that you want no part of this lopsided game and won't hesitate to give her the heave ho if she gives you reason. Make sure she understands how serious you are about it or else your in for a ton of trouble


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> It is not terrible, but he needs to know that his wife could find someone more compatible. *TRUE*
> 
> ...
> I am curious though, could you be okay with being a secondary if the chance ever happens? I will be honest here, and say i really do not know.


I think I could be okay being secondary, but of course would rather not have to find out! I am confident that I would find another primary, so it doesn't cause me any worry even when I consider the possibility. Worst case would be that I find a new primary who is monogamous and wants the same from me. Been there, done that, and for the right person I would do so again, happily.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Please provide proof for any of the bolded?
> 
> There is none.
> 
> ...



http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/men-and-women-both-vary-when-it-comes-to-sex
Mate Poaching: Why Women Want Married Men -


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

As I said, we are all non-monogamous.

Where is your proof that some of us are wired for monogamy and some of us are "more promiscuous?"

You do know that psychology and biology are not the same thing right?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

FW, I agree that we are all non-monogamous, but some are more non-monogamous (i.e., more promiscuous) than others.

There is genetic diversity, and as an example, some men have higher testosterone levels and some men have larger testicles. Men with larger testicles (from what I recall reading) have a greater statistical tendency to pursue a promiscuous mating strategy via sperm competition, while men with smaller testicles are statistically more likely to pursue a mate guarding strategy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Give me a break...either show the evidence and what it was based on or don't...but there is no reason to believe that any human being is wired for monogamy. Not a single one of us is. The behaviors you are describing cannot be examined outside of the society of the individuals, and there is absolutely no proof that testicular size is causation to any of that.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

6301 said:


> Something really stinks about this. What we have here is one partner in the marriage who already read the book and has started planning it out and the other partner (you) still trying to grasp the situation. In other words, she way ahead of you on this and to me it raises one great big serious red flag.
> 
> In order for a open marriage to work, both parties have to agree to it and discuss it between them. In your case you got blindsided with this and it makes me wonder if she hasn't already had a preview of it already.
> 
> Another thing is this. For both of you to have a open relationship, it's a fact. A woman can walk into a room full of men and walk out with her choice in five minuets so it wont be hard for her dance card to be filled 24/7. For a guy it's not that easy and to be honest, your going to be on the losing end of this.


I agree with much of what you said. However, it's not clear that she's "read the book", but has said she may - in a few years - want to pursue an open relationship. This may be exactly what is transpiring, but of course - this being TAM, especially! - she may have gotten a head start in fact. Without evidence of that, I'll continue to respond to the facts as the OP has presented.

While it is certainly true that a woman can have a much easier time finding partners, if she wants a relationship or is very selective about the qualities she wants in partners, she may not have that much of an advantage. You are right if she wants a wide variety of partners, but most open relationships focus more on finding one good partner for an ongoing arrangement. It's easier and far more convenient overall.

If she pursues this without the OP's full agreement and knowledge, then of course he has every right to divorce her, and probably should. It's not a real open relationship unless there is agreement, and even with agreement, it can still be very difficult for either or sometimes both to deal with at times. When it does work, it is very worth it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

OneLoveForLife said:


> She believes there are two types of relationships, sexual and emotional. Put them together and you get love. Keep them apart, and, to her, they are just manageable relationships. Normal friends, and friends-only-for-the-benefits. She would treat the sexual partners like a toy, and cut them off at the first sign of love or affection.


*From a guys that has been around a while and known many women.*


*What she wants you to believe she feels*:











*What she is really thinking about you:
*


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Some of our genetics are hard wired, but our genes are plastic as well. We do have a variability in how we mate and behave. Some of this is due to environmental factors, how we were raised. If a child was raised in an abusive home, the gene for aggression will express itself more. We do have a prefrontal cortex that helps regulate our behavior. Not all will cheat given the opportunity because fear of a loss of a mate may be a high motivator not to. Our behavior ranges on a scale. There are different levels of how promiscuous one person may be.

PLOS ONE: Associations between Dopamine D4 Receptor Gene Variation with Both Infidelity and Sexual Promiscuity

These genes only play a probability in our behavior and is not absolute. Not all of us possess this gene either, but we are still capable of cheating without it.

Btw,monogamish was the word I used, not pure monogamy. I know we do not tend to mate for life, and we tend to stray. But some do not as well.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Here's the basis of your study: *"We administered an anonymous survey on personal history of sexual behavior and intimate relationships to 181 young adults."* 

Look - there's absolutely no science behind saying "some of us are wired for more or less promiscuity". Unless you can swipe someone's tongue with a swab and send it to a lab which confirms "yep, this is one of the promiscuous ones!" then there is absolutely nothing except theory and conjecture.

You are talking about research that happens on people who are already shaped by the society they live in and the environment they were raised in. Then you turn it around as if you are talking about raw, natural biology.

Sorry, you've presented no proof. Just because some people do stay monogamous and some don't is in no way proved to be genetic, especially not in any way it could be tested on one individual. So bringing it up as if this "fact" applies to any particular individual doesn't make any sense at all.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Give me a break...either show the evidence and what it was based on or don't...but there is no reason to believe that any human being is wired for monogamy. Not a single one of us is. The behaviors you are describing cannot be examined outside of the society of the individuals, and there is absolutely no proof that testicular size is causation to any of that.


No breaks for you. You have your views, and I would like to see what you can reference that confirms that testicular size does NOT impact promiscuity.

Lower testicular volume is associated with more nurturing tendencies, higher volume with less nurturing, and this article alludes to the impacts on mating strategies. This article if from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, so it's not just a newspaper exaggeration.

Testicular volume is inversely correlated with nurturing-related brain activity in human fathers

As for the media hype, presumably there is some basis for the statements in the article, but I haven't pursued it:

Testicle size determines how faithful your man is


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Literally every single one of these studies begins from the position that men who don't raise their children are bad, bad cheaters.

From the abstract: "Despite the well-documented benefits afforded the children of invested fathers in modern Western societies, some fathers choose not to invest in their children. Why do some men make this choice?"

There is no way to know that those with bigger or smaller balls didn't have some other psychological or genetic factor that made them either more or less prone to promiscuity or monogamy. Early conditional learning can also cause hormonal changes that can affect the size and shape of sex organs.

From your link: "However, the etiology of the relationship between reproductive biology and nurturing-related brain activity is unclear from this cross-sectional study. *Although seasonal fluctuations in testes size are well documented in species with breeding seasons, surprisingly little is known about the relative stability of testes size in humans or about the environmental, social, or nutritional factors that may influence it, and thus, it remains unclear whether greater testes volume is a cause or a consequence of male life-history strategies*."

Although they do make disclaimers like the above, they conveniently try to compare us to primates, but only when they can find a comparison and when they find evidence against their theory they disregard it. This has happened all throughout science, I'm surprised you don't know this and read this crap with that understanding.

They are trying to find proof for what they already think is true.

But it's fine...we're all free to believe what we want. Flimsy research that paints people with suspect motives for simply behaving naturally will never be in my reading list.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I would like to see what you can reference that confirms that testicular size does NOT impact promiscuity.


I agree. As you read these post you see the men who continue to tolerate their wife's promiscuity seem to have little bitty balls. 
If they had bigger ball that crap wouldn't keep happening and probably would have never started to begin with.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I agree. As you read these post you see the men who continue to tolerate their wife's promiscuity seem to have little bitty balls.
> If they had bigger ball that crap wouldn't keep happening and probably would have never started to begin with.


Well, that's a common assumption. Someone would have to do a study to see if that's actually true.

FW may be right that these studies have a confirmation bias, but I'm not ready to concede that there isn't some truth to the concept.

If IS known that amongst primate species, mating strategy is highly correlated with testicle volume relative to body volume. The higher the ratio, the more promiscuous the species. I don't know if anyone has tested that _within a species_, larger testicles relative to other males correlates with higher promiscuity for those individuals, statistically, but it seems like a reasonable hypothesis to investigate. Robin Cook makes this point in his book "Sperm Wars."


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

This is very dangerous.

Note that I don't have ethical or moral objections, so long as everyone involved consents. I'm also not religious, so obviously I don't have religious objections.

The problem is that emotions are not logical. I know several poly people and they quite a bit of of drama in their lives.

And this is true even if everyone actually wants to live that way. Since you don't want to do it, don't do it just because she wants to do it. I also join with others in thinking that she may have someone particular in mind, so you will have to be aware of that possibility too.

Does that mean that monogamy is ideal? No, but it is a lot easier, if both partners are willing to make the effort to keep it going in a way satisfactory to both.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OneLoveForLife said:


> Thanks everyone, especially Created2Write and MarriedButHappy
> 
> Speaking of roller coasters, I've been on one heck of one for the past few weeks. Many discussions and counselling sessions later, I have a goal to believe in the following belief structure:
> 
> ...



OP:
(BTW Faithfulwife is giving you some very good advice/counseling)

But my style is a bit more blunt - your 2nd to last paragraph above is the only thing you have written in this thread that sounds honest. those are the feelings I would trust if I were you. 
I don't think you should trust your wife. not anymore. I think you need to detach from her a bit, in fact. I think your concept of love is the standard one that most of us have. but you're running your mind around in circles straining to fit her new "beliefs" into your basic beliefs. in your 2nd to last paragraph above you admit that fit is impossible. I think you are right.

don't despair. retain the normal concept of marital love you have and let your wife go. you are young. when you become single again you will have the opportunity to meet and date a whole host of better women. Ones that understand what love means; the same as you think it means


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I would bet that she has already cheated. Her friends are toxic and are encouraging her. As others have saidn women who are greatly attracted to their men generally have no interest in others. 

Paternity test for your child is a must.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> I would bet that she has already cheated. Her friends are toxic and are encouraging her. As others have said women who are greatly attracted to their men generally have no interest in others.
> 
> Paternity test for your child is a must.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow....just wow. On THIS thread you are saying a woman asking this must be a cheater and you suggest a paternity test, but on the "new husband asked for a threesome thread" you said this:


"Blaming your husband for having this type of fantasy is unfair. We can't really control what turns us on. This is a TOTALLY normal thing for men to fantasize about.

Blaming your husband for continuing to pester you about it after you have made it clear you're not interested is FINE. He should know when to drop it. 

The questions I would have for you are:

1. Are you sure you made it clear it was a definite "no"? Consider that maybe it was clear to YOU but your husband wasn't sure. Women often expect that men will be able to read their minds. If it is something that gets him really excited and you gave even the SLIGHTEST hint that maybe, somehow it could be possible, like many men, he is going to try to drive a bus through that crack in the wall. Just think about it.

2. If it's totally and completely clear that you would never do this and never even engage in the FANTASY with him (e.g., dirty talk about it) and he is still bugging you about it, how can you communicate to him that you are losing respect for him and losing attraction because he will not let this one thing go?"


(end quote)

Really? Just WOW. The hypocrisy is amazing.

Another person on my ignore list.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow....just wow. On THIS thread you are saying a woman asking this must be a cheater and you suggest a paternity test, but on the "new husband asked for a threesome thread" you said this:
> 
> 
> "Blaming your husband for having this type of fantasy is unfair. We can't really control what turns us on. This is a TOTALLY normal thing for men to fantasize about.
> ...


I knew when I made this post you would freak. Maybe I did it just to freak you out...

Feel free to disagree, but IMO, there is a difference between saying, hey honey, I'd like to bang another chick WITH you vs., you know, hubby, I'd like to do other dudes on the side when you're not there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> I knew when I made this post you would freak. Maybe I did it just to freak you out...
> 
> Feel free to disagree, but IMO, there is a difference between saying, hey honey, I'd like to bang another chick WITH you vs., you know, hubby, I'd like to do other dudes on the side when you're not there.


I disagree. The only reason that a man asks for a 3some, FMF, is because he wants to have sex with other women. Including his wife is a way to spread the guilt around. If he can talk her into it, she cannot then come down on him for having sex with others.

After all the FMF is just for him.. it is zero for his wife.

With the FMF, the woman is forced to watch her husband have sex with another woman.. that's if she gives in to her husband's desire to have sex with other women in front of her.


I've seen threads on here where women have told their husbands that they wanted to do a MFM. The men were told to divorce her, she's probably already having sex with the guy, and now just wants to cuckold her husband. DNA the kids.

There was no sympathy for her fantasy. Nope.

There is nothing better about a man telling a woman that he wants to bang some woman and she has to watch it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Agree to disagree.

This is all a side debate and irrelevant to OP.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OneLoveForLife said:


> Ive been out of town for the past week and havent been able to get a full explanation of why she wants sex with others (these phone calls can be tough with no facial expressions or reassuring touch), except that its a different type of experience that she would enjoy having in her life. *She has mentioned one other reasons also: she says sex is great with me, but she would like to find new ways to please me. She says we can learn sexual skill from others and make our sex life even better. ill try to find oyt more this week. we plan on spending a lot of time discussing this.*
> 
> learning more about sex through others makes sense to me, because ive *always been the type of person to want to be great at what i do. And i too want to be better for her, but my approach would be different. Id prefer reading books, watching videos, and maybe even going to sex shows before even considering sex with another person.*


 Myself & Husband have only been with each other ....although one may wonder in a moment what it would be LIKE to be with another.. (I would even say this is human nature) ...I feel very strongly about the special-ness of what we share... that it's only been the 2 of us...I treasure this fact...so much more than what could be learned or experienced on the other side.. 

Marriage is about forsaking all others.. that you learn & grow together, exclusivity.. that we ARE & relish being the Cat's MEOW to to the other... working that up , keeping it spiced and FUN.. 

*What is marriage to her then ? *From all you say. she has the mindset of a swinger, this is what she is trying to sell you...and the question is why?? Cant remember what post (didn't read all of these) but it sounds she is alone over 50 hrs of the week.. and there is a possibility she is having something going on with another ? That many of these conversations have been over the phone even ?

I would be highly suspect she has someone in mind & is using this book >>The Ethical Sl**: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures:  to put her right in his arms.. 

This is more than a Slippery Slope.. even if she is being 100% honest...she has no idea WHAT she would be opening herself up to.. she THINKS logically she can separate all of these things... she can not predict this.....I think she wants to live like a single woman and experience all the benefits of being married. 

Your view of spicing up your sex life.. just YOU AND Her.. the reading of books.. renting of dvds... this site is full of them...

Loving sex All DVDs | Alexander Institute

Even posting on forums for ideas/ spicing/ new novelty.. this is all well & good.. :smthumbup: I've done it -and shared here !!

This is what a loving couple does to enhance their sex lives.. . introducing new Novelty.. . this will build your connection, and flourish what YOU have with her... I would find it very VERY hurtful for what she is suggesting here.. as to why she feels she needs penetrated by another man [email protected]#% .. like what is she really going to get from this ??? Stand your ground here !



> *Im also concerned about the risks of losing her and my marraige. When i ask her about this, she says she is a strong person and it will not change her love for me. She says im her one love. she believes in our ability to work through anything difficult that will come our way.*


 You should be concerned...her words are too easy....she keeps trying to sell this on some LOGICAL plane.... listen to your GUT here... . 



> Yes, i would get to have sex with other women. Im not sure that i would though. I mean, i think other women are attractive. But I think my wife is the hottest woman i know. I love her body and i couldnt imagine needing more. To her benefit, my wife also said she doesnt need more and is very happy with our sex life. *To her, sex with a person she does not have emotional attachment to is totally different and separate from than sex with someone she loves. *They are like basketball and football. Both are great physical games but you can play football and still love basketball. Why would someone not play football, just because they love basketball. Even more to the point, why would someone need to play basketball and football with the same people? It seems more than reasonable to have totally different friends for playing each. Yet when applied to sex, this logic feels strange


You have a more Romantic view of sex.. taken from 
this thread 



> I've read "Opening Up" and I'm about half way through "The Ethical s l u t". These books have been instrumental in creating my new belief structure. My old (and still very present belief structure) is the following:
> 
> -*My wife is mine, and everything she does affects and reflects on me
> 
> ...


 there is NOTHING wrong with your belief structure.. .. it is beautiful !!.. taken from that thread.. explained here.. 



> *3. ** Romantic View *~
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Mr.Fisty said: *We also have to condition ourselves not to be competitive either, which we naturally are. Our genitals are made for competition. Females have more of the mate poaching genes, so it is not all societal conditioning. There are some who are genetically made not to be the attached types, they have less oxytocin receptors and are incapable of being in a relationship like yours. It is what it is. So some people are born with the capability of being more loving than others. Our genetics are more on a gradient when it comes to our behavior. We range from monogamish to promiscuous in how our genes express themselves.










.. I have read a # of articles speaking of these things...very interesting.... Attachers should be with attachers ....








...there will be more successful marriages this way.. it's very very hurtful to be with another who wants & lusts for variety -when another is deeply (even sacredly) attached to the other.. it's a recipe for disaster !

Just a sampling of articles on this.. more geared towards men though ...just haven't seen as many focused on women & their hormones.. it seems less of an issue..

*1.* Monogamy is in Your Genes | Men's Health

*2*. Monogamy gene found in people - New Scientist



> There has been speculation about the role of the hormone vasopressin in humans ever since we discovered that variations in where receptors for the hormone are expressed makes *prairie voles* strictly monogamous but meadow voles promiscuous; vasopressin is related to the "cuddle chemical" oxytocin. Now it seems variations in a section of the gene coding for a vasopressin receptor in people help to determine whether men are serial commitment-phobes or devoted husbands....












*3*. Some Men Just Can't Keep Their Monogamy Genes On * 



> They found that the dopamine reward centers of the brain basically went crazy in all men when the sexual imagery was shown. However, some men had similarly increased brain activity while looking at romantic pictures, and others did not. These responses correlated to the men’s descriptions of their own sociosexuality on the restricted to unrestricted scale.
> 
> The reward areas in monogamous men’s brains lit up like Christmas trees in response to the sexual photos and the emotional bonding photos. In sharp contrast, the nonmonogamous men’s brains lit up only to the sexual stimuli; they showed very little activation in the rewards areas of the brain to the emotional bonding photos.


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Wow. There have been some great posts since my last post. I especially appreciate SimplyAmorous' post with links and knowledge on my belief structure. I need to read more into this.

I've always prided myself in being able to shift my beliefs to what best suites me, and that I never want to limit the other people in my life (especially my wife). Although I'd agree that I am absolutely a romantic lover, I'd also say that my identity as a free person is stronger than my identity as a romantic, and that's why I'm willing to struggle through this transition. 

Here is a basic summary of the beliefs that I've started documenting to tabulate to create my new belief structure. As a side note, I think this belief structure will also help me make friends and work better with coworkers. 

-Your relationship has a solid foundation
-You and your partner love each other immensely
-you enjoy your partner experiencing more of life and growing as a person.
-you want your partner to live the most she can
-you accept the fact that life is short
-you accept the fact that you cannot control or have or own another person
-you accept the fact that loving someone means being able to let them go
-you accept the fact that sex is simply an act, like watching a movie or eating dinner. You can do it with others, but it does not diminish doing it with someone else. if anything, it can help you enjoy doing it with others even more.
-you accept that there is more than enough love and sex in the world for everyone
-you accept that experiences make you and your spouse better people, and that sex can be a very good experience
-you accept that sex is like every other characteristic. it can be compared between people, but generally is not to be judged. If someone is less funny than another, you do not think the less funny person is less of a person. and just because someone is more funny, doesn't mean that they are a more incredible person or worthy of your love. we are far more than one facet of a person.

Everyone's perspectives have been helping me create my new beliefs and reinforce them. I thoroughly appreciate everyone's perspectives and have enjoyed this forum for sharing. 

Also, there is a side of people that has not been discussed yet. What kind of person is my wife? Is she the act first think later type, who rarely even thinks through what clothes she wears in the morning? Is she the plotting, thoughtful kind who has an essay for why she does everything? Many of the assumptions made about her so far have been based on one type of person or the other. At some point in the future, it would be interesting to analyze her statement "I'd like to have an open relationship sometime in the future" from the perspective of someone who is very thoughtful (scientist, philosopher) and also from someone who is more action base (athlete, construction worker). I believe the approach would be far different for each, but realistically i know it would only be a thought experiment, as there are so many variables and beliefs that have to be known before you can possible weigh out the most likely outcome of an open relationship or previous actons that might have created the desire for an open relationship. 

An optimistic (and in my case, even realistic) interpretation of my wife's thoughts could be as simple as "i like sex with others, and i don't care if my husband and i have sex with others as long as we are honest about it. it creates positive experiences in our lives, and with proper control, can even be done while maintaining our family life." for me, it would never end there because i am so analytical. people like me read into things and try to find hidden meaning in what people say. People like my wife say what they mean. Sometimes its hard to remember that or believe that, but man is life better when I do.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

There are a bunch of things going on here that have me concerned.

First, you guys got together young, from the sounds of it, and have had no other sex partners than one another. It's very normal for there to be "what if" type thoughts, or wondering about if things would be different/better with another partner. In a strong marriage, those thoughts are dismissed with "what could possibly be as good as this!?" That your spouse is not ending her wonderment with that thought suggests to me that perhaps she's not enjoying her marriage as much as she verbally indicates. She is as likely to find someone she connects with better as she is to confirm that she made the right choice with you.

Second, all these thoughts of hers appear to be triggered by her coworkers. Is she susceptible to peer influence in other aspects of her life? If she was surrounded by people who were honourably monogamous, she'd be having her monogamy reinforced and become very dedicated to your marriage. Are her thoughts and desires about this really her own, or some sort of underlying need to fit in at work? And is she idealizing her coworker's open relationships because she only hears the good parts and never the bad parts? It's easy to envy a lifestyle when you only see what's presented to others, not what's really going on (ie, the fabulous jetsetting couple who look like they have it all but are really neck-deep in debt).

Third, the best time to discuss open marriage is BEFORE marriage! She made her fidelity commitment to you, and now she's asking to be relieved of it. She may as well be asking you to break up. How much do you want to stay with someone who doesn't keep their word?

Fourth, she's not offering this as a partnership deal. You don't say if she has mentioned how she'd want YOU to find other sex partners as well. As noted by others, she's not suggesting swinging as a couple, for example. She seems like she's asking you to consider something very selfish and just for her own pleasure. You seem to be considering it because you love her, but also because you are afraid of losing her if you say 'no' and not because it also interests you.

Fifth, if she's identifying her main goals as seeking novelty and learning new skills, there are lots of other ways to do that without opening the marriage. Buy books about sex. Watch porn together. Roleplay. Why is she jumping right to poly talk before trying anything else first?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> There are a bunch of things going on here that have me concerned.
> 
> First, you guys got together young, from the sounds of it, and have had no other sex partners than one another. It's very normal for there to be "what if" type thoughts, or wondering about if things would be different/better with another partner. In a strong marriage, those thoughts are dismissed with "what could possibly be as good as this!?" That your spouse is not ending her wonderment with that thought suggests to me that perhaps she's not enjoying her marriage as much as she verbally indicates. She is as likely to find someone she connects with better as she is to confirm that she made the right choice with you.
> 
> ...


Not to mention the fact that people are different, with different desires, different things that please them. What works for one person, can get them off in less than a minute could turn the next person off completely. The best lover for one person could be the worst for another. I think the best and most important sexual skill is the ability to read and understand your partners actions and reactions, responses...not lick here, touch there, wiggle like this, waggle like that.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

To OP,

If you feel torn emotionally apart in supporting your wife in her desire to open the marriage and your "social conditioning" then please consider the following.

In order to transition to this new way of relating, there has to be a large amount of emotional detachment. Some people can do it within the framework of the marriage but many more can't. You seem to fall into the latter camp. So what can you do? Propose to your wife that the only way you could do it is by divorcing her. Explain to her that FOR YOU marriage is anathema to an "open relationship". 

You are not a condemning her belief system but simply confirming your core values that form the basis of your being. A man who does not betray them and has the courage to divorce his wife - shaking in fear of the consequences but still following through - is more likely to have his wife feeling strongly attracted to him than not. More importantly, he will be at peace with himself.

Choose wisely.


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## 1marriedlady (Mar 27, 2015)

While everyone quotes and compares research and studies, I think he's more interested in personal experiences because unless he or his wife were part of any of these, they can't help him sort through this.

Sorry this is happening, sending you hugs and hoping you decide what's best for you. Because in the end that's what it boils down to - what is best for YOU. 

I understand and respect how you are trying to sort this out to see things her way. But that may not happen regardless of how many books you read or how many people you talk too. 

If you don't - you might lose her. If you do - you might lose her. Either why there is a risk. Whatever your decision be sure and live your life for you.


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## Colonel Angus (Apr 11, 2015)

Sir, if your wife desires sexual relationships with other men, and deep down you do not, then there is only one way to go, divorce.

I commend open and honest communication between husband and wife, but you should NEVER violate the principles that define who you are.

Courage sir, courage.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You stated that you and your wife are not bound by religious convictions but rather driven by logic and reason. May I inquire as to the logic of introducing other partners into a marriage? Let us for the moment not even consider the health hazards involved and just focus on the emotional and psychological aspects. You have already stated that your wife's suggestion has made you feel inadequate. How does she logically process this?

If the concern for the feelings of another is paramount to their own then anything that would cause discomfort to that other person would be unthinkable. One of her reasons you stated was to increase her sexual prowess for your enjoyment but I find this statement to be self serving. She is not capable of increasing her sexuality with out sleeping with other men? This statement is laughable. Another reason is to allow her to grow as a person and experience all that life has to offer. If this is her desire then why make a solemn vow to be with you for life. She could have remained single and experienced all that life has to offer without breaking her word.

I am afraid that your wife has buyers remorse and now wants to do much more shopping around only she wants to do it in the safety and comfort of a committed relationship. This is deeply troubling. I feel as though she is asking you to open Pandora's box and once done it cannot be undone.

I feel that your wife is easily influenced and the people she works with are swaying her beliefs and her values. And what of your young family? Is she willing to risk their happiness and the foundation of a solid family unit if this plan should go awry? There is simply too much at risk and too few guarantees to make this decision logically.

Additionally, may I ask how good a sexual relationship can be? Will she reach such nirvana with some other man so as to pass out from pleasure? The more likely truth is that she will find that sex, especially for a logical person, is more about the closeness and the trust and the sense of oneness that one feels with a person with which they share life. A person that knows their vulnerabilities, their weaknesses, their preferences and their heart. A person they deeply care about.

I fear your wife, because of influences outside the marriage, wants the thrill of new adventure and the exhilaration of new experiences when, in fact, she has all that she needs and then some. Also, from what I read of your posts, I do not believe this will go well for you in spite of your proclaimed open mindedness. I also fear that your wife may deeply regret it as well once she sees how superficial and meaningless the encounters would be but then the damage will have been done and there is no going back. Logically is it really worth the risk for a few moments of fleeting pleasure? Only you two can decide but remember this one thing. In a committed relationship novelty and love should not only be combined but they should be inseparable. Each new experience to be shared by the two of you, each one bringing you closer together. What you two have is rare and many people would trade places with you in an instant. Are those two birds in the bush worth giving up the rare one in your hand? Proceed at your own peril. I wish you good fortune.


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

since my last post, your responses have been phenominal. Many of the same thoughts i have had. something i havent meantioned is how hard ive been struggeling with trust since we started this open rel discussion. Its gotten so bad that my wife recently told me she is no longer interested in open relationships. She saw our marraige falling apart and decided it wasnt worth the risk. And this is even before we opened the marraige. I agree with many of you for saying i may not be able to make the transition, but i jave to say i wont stop trying. It wont be as active now that she has made it clear we will stay manogamous, but i have to persue this further. i have so many beliefs that dont make sense anymore, that i cant turn back. I doubt ill end up perfectly transitioned, and i may never be able to willfully endure an open rel. That said, i have a lot of developing to do and i hope to grow significantly and learn a lot about myself in this process. I plan to make friends in more open lives to learn more directly from others too.

Thanks everyone!! Time to move on from open rel and forwards with my new life w her, everyday ive got today to make our relationship the best it can be.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Check this out. If you're still here.

Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | Talk Video | TED.com


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

OneLoveForLife said:


> It took me a couple weeks of asking her questions to get to this very distinct and logical (but earth shattering for me) point, which appears to be at the crux of it all. She thinks that loving sexual relationships are totally different from novel (brand new) sexual relationships.


In responsible non monogamy circles, this is known as NRE or new relationship energy. And yes, I agree it is different. Better? No. But different.



> Btw: by loving sex I mean sex between two people who respect and care for each other, and do not "use" each other for sexual satisfaction. I want to please her, she wants to please me, and we both benefit. in addition, we care immensely for each other due to the years of love and experience together, so sex has meaning between us, that it would never have with someone new who was totally detached.
> 
> I told her I feel like I am inadequate for her, and she said me feeling inadequate for not being able to have novel sex is like a fish feeling inadequate for not being able to fly.


Read this

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Cr...TF8&qid=1430155059&sr=8-1&keywords=opening+up



> In her mind, it is practically speaking impossible for me to produce sexual experience of a new sexual partner, and vice versa.
> 
> The moment I grasped the concept was earth shattering. But I still stand. Still married. Still in love.
> 
> ...


They are different. That is true.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OneLoveForLife said:


> something I haven't mentioned is how hard I've been struggling with trust since we started this open rel discussion. Its gotten so bad that my wife recently told me she is no longer interested in open relationships. She saw our marriage falling apart and decided it wasn't worth the risk. And this is even before we opened the marriage.


This comes as no surprise since you started your first post with the following.



OneLoveForLife said:


> My wife recently came home and told me that, *although she doesn't want one today, in the future (3 yrs, 5yrs, maybe 10yrs) she wants to have an open relationship.*


Now you know that you and your wife have diametrically opposed views on marriage and monogamy, which has destroyed any "kindred spirit" feelings you had with regards to the two of you. 

Unfortunately your wife has let the genie out of the bottle and now she can't put it back in. As a consequence, you no longer feel safe around her. When a person doesn't feel safe around a someone he/she has known for years, the trust is destroyed. Like it or not, watching your back will now become part of your married life due to her expressed desire for an open marriage, which she now says its too risky and doesn't want one.

She may not have cheated on you but her expressed desire for having sex with other men in a few years hence, while still being married to you, can be just as traumatic as her having done the deed.

If regaining your trust is important to her then she has to consciously act trustworthy 24/7 and always being considerate of your feelings from now on. Open book, all the way. She has to know it won't happen overnight but every day she puts a step forward, is a step closer to regaining it.

Good luck.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OneLoveForLife said:


> since my last post, your responses have been phenominal. Many of the same thoughts i have had. something i havent meantioned is how hard ive been struggeling with trust since we started this open rel discussion. *Its gotten so bad that my wife recently told me she is no longer interested in open relationships. She saw our marraige falling apart and decided it wasnt worth the risk. And this is even before we opened the marraige.* I agree with many of you for saying i may not be able to make the transition, but i jave to say i wont stop trying. It wont be as active now that she has made it clear we will stay manogamous, but i have to persue this further. i have so many beliefs that dont make sense anymore, that i cant turn back. I doubt ill end up perfectly transitioned, and i may never be able to willfully endure an open rel. That said, i have a lot of developing to do and i hope to grow significantly and learn a lot about myself in this process. I plan to make friends in more open lives to learn more directly from others too.
> 
> Thanks everyone!! Time to move on from open rel and forwards with my new life w her, everyday ive got today to make our relationship the best it can be.


So, the only reason she wants to call it off is because she didn't like being under the microscope, i.e. being heavily scrutinized because you lost your trust in her? 

I'm sorry, but I think you're screwed. She'll most likely never regain your trust, because if it was me I would always be under the assumption that she will still want the experience of sleeping with someone else and will simply do it behind your back. 

To clarify, she decided to call it off because she saw the pain and suffering you were feeling and loved you too much to see you in pain? Or was it too much of a hassle for her to not be trusted?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
If you are still monitoring this thread I would like to inquire as to your new found open mindedness. You seemed rather distraught in your first post that your wife even mentioned an open relationship and now you want to pursue it? I believe that your trust is in shambles and you now think that by acting as though you've had a revelation and become enlightened that it will somehow be revived.

Your wife needs to know the depth of the wound she has inflicted so as to see if she cares enough to help it heal. I believe this would restore your trust if anything can. You may think that this progressive, new wave thinking will ease your angst but I fear it will only exacerbate it. Your wife is exposed to this type of thinking at work and you have seen the effects it has had on your marriage and now you want to begin traveling in those circles to learn more about it? I suggest you rethink this carefully. Or perhaps your values are as easily swayed as your wife's. A person who stands for nothing will fall for anything. I wish you good fortune.

ETA: I saw your question about loving sex and novelty sex and I would like to posit a thought. Once your wife has slept with 5, 10, 20, 100, 1000 men do you believe it will still be novelty sex. By the very definition the novelty will wear off of that too and then what are you left with? Loving sex is dynamic, constantly growing and evolving. Novelty sex is simply new until it no longer is. One final thought; there are fish that can fly.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

I think that one day - in looking back at this - you'll realize that this was a horrible mistake.

As has been said, open marriages and strong emotional romantic relationships do NOT work!

Period.

It is just more of the manifestation that the Self Love Culture of SHAM (*) has brought to this country.


(*)

http://www.amazon.com/Sham-Self-Hel...2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430443315&sr=8-2&keywords=SHAM


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

intheory said:


> It's weird how jealous/envious men are about the fact that women can do this [thing that most women don't ever want to do.
> 
> If a man was guaranteed this same "success" rate in having sex with people he'd only known five minutes; would more men want open marriages? Would men even get married at all?


Yes. If most men could pull off what you described above, most likely you'd see marriage rates plummet and then in cases where marriages do take place a higher percentage of them would be open.

Thank biology for why we have the civilization we have today.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Yes. If most men could pull off what you described above, most likely you'd see marriage rates plummet and then in cases where marriages do take place a higher percentage of them would be open.
> 
> Thank biology for why we have the civilization we have today.


 I disagree. I think most men do have a clue on what life is about. meaning even if the above was the case men would still seek out human companionship, long term companionship. if nothing else they would still fear growing old, alone.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OneLoveForLife said:


> since my last post, your responses have been phenominal. Many of the same thoughts i have had. something i havent meantioned is how hard ive been struggeling with trust since we started this open rel discussion. Its gotten so bad that my wife recently told me she is no longer interested in open relationships. She saw our marraige falling apart and decided it wasnt worth the risk. And this is even before we opened the marraige. I agree with many of you for saying i may not be able to make the transition, but i jave to say i wont stop trying. It wont be as active now that she has made it clear we will stay manogamous, but i have to persue this further. i have so many beliefs that dont make sense anymore, that i cant turn back. I doubt ill end up perfectly transitioned, and i may never be able to willfully endure an open rel. That said, i have a lot of developing to do and i hope to grow significantly and learn a lot about myself in this process. I plan to make friends in more open lives to learn more directly from others too.
> 
> Thanks everyone!! Time to move on from open rel and forwards with my new life w her, everyday ive got today to make our relationship the best it can be.



OP:
sounds like you're gone but I have to say, in this response like all your others (excepting that 1/2 paragraph pointed out earlier) you seem both naive and gullible. I would bet that you feel you need your wife more than she feels she needs you. 

I'm also wondering if your wife could be described as 'manipulative' - to what extent is she skilled in this area? she essentially wants something that the vast majority of husbands would find bltantly unnaceptable. deep down that was your reaction too. yet you are still talking "making the transition" despite the fact that she has called off the open marriage option... :scratchhead:

I am very skeptical on the sincereity of your wife's love for you, at least at this point in your marriage. you'd be well advised to be skeptical about that too. otherwise it appears as if she could set you up for almost anything; and you wouldn't know what hit you. 
Talk to your friends and family about what she suggested, that she now (seems) to have taken off the table. I think their reactions could help you better see the reality of your situation.


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## Melvynman (Mar 19, 2014)

OneLoveForLife said:


> Thanks everyone!! Time to move on from open rel and forwards with my new life w her, everyday ive got today to make our relationship the best it can be.


Your wife is right!... and now she will become sexually dysfunctional! Your using marriage to control her reproductive rights and sexuality... good luck with that! She is now repressed and will become depressed and sexually dysfunctional like 43% of American women today. 

Humans are part of only two family of species that have sex for pure pleasure. Your wife a female primate and by evolution a promiscuous animal. She is king of the jungle when it comes to sex!... and you caught her and have put her in cage. 

Men have been trying to control female sexuality for thousand of years. This is how they are doing... 54% of women in relationships have sex outside the relationship, it is safe to say they enjoy sex! 43% of women in America are sexually dysfunctional it is safe to say they don't like sex anymore. How do those numbers add up? 

She is going to reject you sexually and there is noting you can do about it! Mother nature design her sexually to reject you after a few years or birth of child. Mother nature wants her to have children by different fathers to ensure survival of the species. 

I could go on on... and keep going on and on... 

I will leave it at this. Males controlling female sexuality is stupid, ignorant and dangers for society! Go back to school and learn primate sexuality and then maybe you will have a better understanding or your wife and her natural desire's.


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## OneLoveForLife (Mar 21, 2015)

Melvynman, your post was so awesome. It was a bit mad, but so enjoyable in its severity. everyone's responses have been great. Essentially it boils down to this. My wife, as all people, are complicated. I might know her well, but I am learning as she is. Life is a journey, friends. I won't jump off just when things get interesting. the negative statements could theoretically be true, but my wife would have to be a completely different person than I ever knew her to be for that to be the case. I think it far more likely that she is exactly who she has always been, except now she wants to have sex with other people. it's not as aweful as it sounds. It's consensual. It makes people feel good and be happy. It's one of my favorite things to do with my wife (and alone). The truth is I'm starting to come around. I'm not ready to tell her yet, but I'm getting There.

What I liked most about melvyn's post was the logic about holding her sexual it captive.it's what I've been thinking also, and it reassured me to hear someone else say it. How can I keep her from exploring this facet of herself and still say I love her? I'll explain my view of the risks, but in the end she is an adult and I will not keep her from making decisions she feels are right. I am not a coward. I am not her parent. I am her lover, her best friend, and her companion on this crazy journey we call life.and if she does, as everyone fears, leave me? Then I will have enjoyed our time together. I can't hold her back anymore than I can hold back the wind. 

Thank you all for posting. I do get updates on your responses and will keep in touch until my mind has turned to other life developments. At this moment, open relationshipship thinking and loving her takes all my attention outside of work.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

intheory said:


> If a man was guaranteed this same "success" rate in having sex with people he'd only known five minutes; would more men want open marriages? Would men even get married at all?
> 
> And I'm not picking on _you_, 6301. I've seen this idea expressed many times on TAM, and I am always weirded out by it.


My husband has that type of success (if and when he wanted it) and yet, he didn't want endless detached sex with strangers. I think men think they would want this but if it is actually available, only a small amount of men actually want that over love and a partnership. Of course a highly sexual man still wants that love and partnership with a highly sexual woman...but random sex with strangers doesn't hold much appeal to most guys who can actually pull it off easily. Of course, when very young many men and women both will test this theory out...but when you grow up just a bit you want love more than sex.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

What most of us beta guys want is not lots of random sex with strangers, We just want to experience what it feels like to know you could get it if you wanted it.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Your wife is being rather unrealistic in her expectations, in my view.... My experience is that good sex brings people together; the only reason I avoid having sex with most women I admire is that I'm sure I'd fall in love with them if the sex would good!

Secondly, I think it's normal for married persons (specially women) to fail to get sexual highs from their partner after 2-3 years. But if they get a new partner, kaboom... they're all revved up. It's just the newness that makes a difference. Don't take it personal....


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I disagree. I think most men do have a clue on what life is about. meaning even if the above was the case men would still seek out human companionship, long term companionship. if nothing else they would still fear growing old, alone.


This problem has already been addressed in certain societies.

One main "companion" wife and several other wives.


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