# Heartbroken- need perspective-insight plz



## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

I really need perspective on a letter that I wrote to my wife because I'm questioning it constantly. This is the third letter I've written. The 1st was the usual "what I did wrong etc" the 2nd was more of a note saying "ok Im resigned to our marriage ending & now lets look after our son" because of a male friend she had over on more than one occasion. 

Bit of history

Please forgive composition its very late now!

My wife of 1 1/2 years, since christmas, drank everyday after work & at the weekends. The pub is 5mins from our house as is her job. Anti depression medication were also a problem & I often screamed at her for taking them & for drinking. She got very friendly with the barman who as you can imagine became a great shoulder to cry on. 

She moved out Monday last week, Tues she had our son & it was on Wednesday night that I heard the "barman" stayed in her apartment. I freaked out & She swore nothing happened but when pushed & pushed she said that it wasn't any of my business because we're seperated & that we haven't gone that far, yet! 

Now friends around swear that he's a good friend but after hearing he stayed over again on Friday night I called him & demanded to know if he was having an affair with my wife. I never got a definite answer on the phone & was suprised to hear him say that he would like to meet & talk. The following night, we met & was astounded to hear him say constantly "Thats between yourself & your wife" when I pleaded with him that I needed to understand if their relationship was platonic or physical. What did he want to talk to me about? This went around for about 5mins, now beleive me I'm no fighter but when I said "I'll tell you what, how about you stay away from my wife & no more staying all night if you are a just friends", the man never opened his mouth he just stared at me so I hit him. A bit of a shoving match ensued but was quickly broken up.
Friends still say there's nothing going on but surely after hearing a man say this, if he was just just friends, he would respect that & agree? right?

I really can't talk about this right now.

Look I'm not kidding myself here but I love my wife & want to save my marriage especially for our child.

The Letter

Before I move on with my life I need to ask some questions concerning our sons future. I also have to be strong and true to *name* & say a few things that need to be said. Yes our marriage was very flawed & separation was inevitable. I’m not naive enough to think any different. But for all our flaws everything was fixable with some serious counselling. I always believed in us. Yes we hated each other, remember, I was feeling the exact same way as you did during this time. I screamed at you to move out. 
Pot didn’t help my situation either which is why I’m determined to stay off it now more than ever. It made me a bitter & angry man towards you & *name*.
As I said in my previous letter you moving out was a kick in the teeth, a huge wake up call. I looked at our son & realised how selfish I had become. It took me a long time to find you. I Knew I had to fight for my marriage which is why the letter only contained issues that I had to deal with. I honestly thought that with counselling we could be a loving couple again together for our son. I was prepared to show how much of a loving husband & father I could be to you both. I always believed in you. 
I never for one minute thought that you would give up without a fight yourself especially with the abandonment issues you had But I was blown away when I heard about him so so soon after you moved out. I’m not ready to talk about that yet.
This is our 1st break up since we have met. Our 1st. Why didn’t you think that I wouldn’t address our marriage issues after you moved out. fight for your marriage *name*, we have deep love that bloomed while we had our son. Don’t forget this- we can get this back. We lost a lot of respect & humility for each other but therapy can help us out. Fight for your family *name*. Prove to your mother than you can have a successful marriage & children. Prove to your son that you tried to work things out for the better. Have you really seriously considered your sons future? What’s going to happen in six months? a year? It’s all well & good now *name* going back & forth to each others houses, in fact its a novelty for him but what’s going to happen when we move? Do you really think that I will remain in the town knowing that I can’t be with you? I’m not making any threats here, no matter how it reads, but *name* really & truly would you hang around with nothing keeping you here except painful memories? And that’s what I fear. It’s then that our son will have separation issues that he will have to deal with for the rest of his life. Do you really want him to go through this knowing how much it effected you? Please for your son’s sake step back a little & think of the consequences. You need to hear this. Is it so bad with me that you are willing to put him through this? It’s not *name*. All our disagreements will dissipate over time. We can, through counselling, our son & each other, get through this. Please don’t give up on our marriage.
I love you baby, we are stronger than this- we can be stronger from this


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

I gotta say... Just from the above information I would be leaning towards not sending that letter. 

If she is in full on "get out" mode that letter will only push her farther away.

All you really talked about, though, was yourself and this other dude...

What has your wife said about all of this? Did she ever reply to your previous letters?

My wife left me pretty unexpectedly, and was fully on the divorce train. I was SURE it was over... And you know what I did?

I left her alone.

I left her alone for a month, and with me gone, and I mean completely gone, she had time to think, and miss me, and slowly but surely I started to hear from her again, and instead of getting nasty, angry emails, I started getting emails asking me out for coffee.

Were not back together or anything yet, but its sure as hell looking that way right now, and this is only about 2 months into this separation.


Jus' sayin'... The best thing you can do here is BE COOL.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks for the relpy. That's why I questioned it. I know I'm going through the rejection phase & didn't want to send the letter in case it sounded too needy but I felt I had to make her think hard about our son & well, plant some seeds. 
She is not an EU national & my son, although will have duel citenzenship, doesn't hold an Irish passport, & won't need one until he is 16yrs old. Basically she can leave with him any time she wants. I really think this won't happen though because she knows I'm a great father to our son but I can't see her able to support herself financially within the next few months. I think it will all come crashing down on her very soon when the bills mount up. And I feel, with her back against the wall, anything could happen.

I should have come here first because I gave her the letter yesterday in a mothers day card. I really know that keeping distance is key here but it's impossible in my situation. She works & is living 10mins away from me. She has our son every other day so I have to meet her. Phone calls & texts are also daily, although I'm trying hard not to talk to her. I know she see's me a weak so its imperative that I act somewhat
confident but I can't see that happening when I have to see her most days. Job prospects are dire here & the only way I can see out is to move to a different town. She was the only one working since we had our son & there's resentment there for robbing her of her motherhood but we really didn't have choice. 

Its my son that I fear most for here. He's an amazing child, very very happy with himself & around others & once a move occurs I know its going to effect him badly. He adores his mom & dad. I just don't want to put him through this. Its cruel & heartless when things could be worked out.

No she didn't reply to my letters. Just the usual, I'm sorry I've been meaning to write to you.


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

At this point all you can really do is worry about yourself and your son. There are no kids in my situation so I cant really relate to that, but I can relate to the fact that you cannot control anything she is going to do.

You have absolutely no control over her actions or thoughts right now, and you have to accept that, and leave her alone.

The WORST thing you can do right now is seem needy or depressed. No matter how hard it is, and believe me I know its hard, but you have to seem confident and cool to her. 

I know you have to see her due to your son, but when that happens just seem ok to her. Make small talk but nothing more. You have to give her the idea that you are moving on with or without her, even if you prefer it be with her she knows thats how you feel.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as kinda blunt and harsh here. I just know my own situation and how I handled it.

I can't stress enough that the best thing I did was leave her alone and be self confident and take everything as it came. 

I know all of this is hard... You have to completely change the way you think. It sucks, but you have to do it.


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

And read the book called "Love must be tough"

It was a total eye opener for me, and I think it will be for you, too.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

blahblahblah said:


> And read the book called "Love must be tough"
> 
> It was a total eye opener for me, and I think it will be for you, too.


wow thanks for that. I been scouring the internet since she left & this advice has been the best i've come across so far. Very interesting reading (the website-havent got the book yet). I just tire of writing another letter right now, especially a moving on one but I'm getting there. I realise I have no control over her actions. It's her that needs to change too but it has to be her choice. I really do appreciate your words & work away my friend, you be as hash as you like. I don't think anything can hurt me anymore than already has.

Any fathers out there for advice here?

We met today to exchange our son. First time that I didn't have a knot in my stomach & she thanked me for the wonderful card & letter. Wasn't that nice of her! (sic) I said no problem life goes on. I felt confident. I felt clean. Its exactly two weeks today. She looked haggard. I gave her a specific timetable for our son with bedtimes etc during the week & as I'm typing this (9:00pm) she hasn't called to wish him goodnight? His bedtime is between 7:30pm & 8:00pm. Mind you he never asked for her  Do I confidently chastise her tomorrow ( I know she'll be angry & I don't want to push her any futher away?) Do I need to remind her to call her son & wish him goodnight? Isn't it in my son's best interest to remind his mother that her son would like to hear from her at bedtime?
I handed her an electric bill saying "consequences" so I'm sure she's not going to be too happy with me tomorrow.


As I said all along I knew my marriage was very flawed & it has to be her decision to change as well. Its my son that I fear most. I can't imagine what this will do to our beautiful happy 3ry old boy. And yes I'm to blame for this to.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Also you are right all I did talk about was myself in the letters. I didn't want to point out her (major) faults for fear of making her even more angry with me. After all it was this reason she moved out.

Do you think I should in my "moving on" letter?


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

I wouldn't point out any ones faults anymore. 

Keep the moving on letter short and sweet. Let her know you are sorry it has come to this, and you wish there was a way that you two could work this out, but you respect her decision and you are moving on with your life with or without her.

I mean, word it anyway you want, but those should be the basic points.

Keep in mind, this is only things I've learned from a lot of reading and relating what I read to MY situation... Everyone's situation is different, obviously.

I would highly suggest reading that book before you do anything though... Highly, highly suggest it.


Basically... The old cliche is true... If you really love something, let it go, if it comes back it was meant to be, if it doesn't it was never yours to begin with.

Corny, but true.


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

From another father:

No doubt one of the hardest things to deal with in times like these is the consequences our children must face. Unfortunately from now on out you have little to no control over how she chooses to mother her child. Chances are, reminding her of shortcomings is not going to help matters for him, and certainly not for you. Your best approach is to set the example now. Raise the bar, show her how important he is to you. (don't go out and shower him with gifts and candy), justs show him love, and make him feel safe. Let her explain why she didn't call. In fact, if he does ask you, have him ask her. Hopefully your actions will rub off on her. If not, then at least you can move foward with a clear conscience that _you_ have done right for your son. good luck


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Last night was a terrible night. I couldn't sleep a wink. You can only imagine what I was thinking about. She called at 10am this morning & never mentioned a word about why she didn't call him last night. Nor did I. I can't believe how calm & collected she is. 

I don't think I'm really ready to write out that moving on letter. I think I'll wait a week & try again. I just wrote her a "save your marriage" letter & figure it would be bad timing to now write that I respect her wishes & get on with our lives when clearly she knows I would take her back. What do you guys think?

Thanks hyndsight1. Unfortunately I have nothing to prove to her about my son. She already knows how important he is to me. (Did I really say unfortunately?) Maybe that's why she can have her cake & eat it because she knows I will always be there for him.

Btw, My wife & son are both American. We got married & are living here in Eire. My family, although extremely sympathetic to my situation, have never gone through anything like this before so advice here is very important to me. Thank you all.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

blahblahblah said:


> I would highly suggest reading that book before you do anything though... Highly, highly suggest it.
> 
> Basically... The old cliche is true... If you really love something, let it go, if it comes back it was meant to be, if it doesn't it was never yours to begin with.
> 
> Corny, but true.


I'm afraid my financial situation won't allow for any purchaser's yet so I'll have to rely on advice for now my friend. I think when I am ready, I will post the letter & seek advice here. I'm thinking maybe someone reading these letters can learn from my situation.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

My 3yr old today said to me, "Dad how come mammy doesn't like you?", I said "Son of course mammy likes me", "Well mammy say's you're a bad daddy & I said you were a good daddy". Wow blew me away. That's just messed up. I can't believe she would say something like that to him. I wonder if she's drinking with him there? 

I wish I could just grab & shake her....then tell her everything is going to be ok


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## Believe (Aug 27, 2009)

ok first of all that is terrible for your W to say that to a 3 yr old. No matter what goes on between the two of you, that little boy loves you both and should never be put in the middle. I would tell her what he said. 
God I wish people could understand how much their selfishness affects children. 

Ok I love the advice on this thread especially from blahblahblah. 
I have a question. If the tables were turned would you guys start to miss your W if she acted like she had just moved on and you are no longer her number one priority? Every time I back away, he backs away. If I don't answer his call or a text, he will just the same thing the next day. This has been going on for awhile now.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Believe said:


> ok first of all that is terrible for your W to say that to a 3 yr old. No matter what goes on between the two of you, that little boy loves you both and should never be put in the middle. I would tell her what he said.
> God I wish people could understand how much their selfishness affects children.
> 
> Ok I love the advice on this thread especially from blahblahblah.
> I have a question. If the tables were turned would you guys start to miss your W if she acted like she had just moved on and you are no longer her number one priority? Every time I back away, he backs away. If I don't answer his call or a text, he will just the same thing the next day. This has been going on for awhile now.


I'd like to think that its all phycological. That I can win my wife back if I give her her space, tell her I've moved on & act confident but it has to be her choice in the end. No matter how much we are hurting & can see how well we can make the relationship work if only they'd come back & try, it has to be their decision. I'd like to give you advice but I'm in the early stages myself & can only give you hope that they can see what we see. Each situation is different. Try not calling or texting for a week no matter how much it hurts.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Moving on letter to my wife.

My beautiful wife. I'm sure you're sick to death of my letters by now. As I reflect on our relationship, I'm reminded that you married me & had our son of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and obviously, I have to let you go. I'm aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have at any time in our relationship. You are free to go. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I'm going to make it. You and I had some wonderful times together, *name*. You were my first “True” love and I'll never forget the memories that we shared. It is a severe shock to see our relationship falling apart. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul-searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can't be done. I’m so sorry that things didn’t work out between us & coaxing you into counseling, I don’t think until you are ready, would be a solution. I realize that it has to be your decision & your decision only. Naturally, you are the mother of our son & I will always be here to talk if you wish. I hope that whatever decision you make in the future will make you happy & I really mean that.


Yes some pieces were plagiarized. Comments & suggestion completely welcome.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

I told her I was going out tonight but thats a lie. I know that with my son staying in her apartment its highly unlikely that her male companion will be there. But I'm racked with guilt for using my son like this. I'm content for now knowing that she's safe tonight. I also plan on giving her that note when we exchange our son this evening. At least this way I'm sure there won't be distractions when she reads it.


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

I think that note is fine, dude. 

I would highly suggest after giving it to her not contacting her, at all, regarding anything BUT your son. 


@Believe - All I can say is that when my wife and I first split up, she couldnt have seemed MORE like she was moving on and forgetting about me, and yeah, it messed me up, and I chased her, HARDCORE. 

Worst thing I could have done. It just pushed her into a corner and made her defensive.

Why do you think he is moving farther away? Because he doesn't reply? How long have you been apart?

You dont have to ignore his contact... You can always reply when he contacts you... Just keep it short and sweet. I dont think ignoring him when HE contacts YOU is the right thing to do. But if he ignores You when you contact HIM I would just stop contacting him.

Bottom line is when someone wants to leave, there is nothing you can say or do to make them stay... You just have to concentrate on making yourself the best person you can and let them decide if what they did was the right or wrong thing.

If they decide they would like to consider trying to salvage the relationship, if you do this, you will only seem like a better, stronger person than before. Nobody wants to be with a depressed, clingy, sad person.

Be happy, laugh, work out, get some new clothes, whiten your teeth, read some self help books... It will be hard but you jst have to force yourself. You control your emotion, not the other way around.

Doing these things work two fold... Not only will you FEEL better about yourself, but you will also be 100 times more attractive to anyone, not just your spouse.

It's a win-win.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Thank you my friend for those words.
When I met her today it was obvious that she had been drinking, of course being paddys day she justified her actions. It sickens me when she's all happy & rubs my arm to tell me to be careful tonight & to have a good time. As if I bloody could. I stuffed the note in my sons school bag & told her to read it as this would be my last letter. I'm purposly not calling tonight & probably won't have any contact until I pick him up from childcare at 3pm.


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

If you truly do want to salvage your marriage, just keep the faith and take care of yourself dude.

Like I said before, 2 months ago my wife walked out on me fully intending to get a divorce.

I knew the issues we had in our relationship were very fixable, and I think deep down she did too, so I took the time and care to recognize and fix the part I played in our marriage failing, while giving her time to hopefully do the same.

As I type this I am about to leave to go pick her up at her new apartment to spend the day with her. I have a Bansai Tree as a housewarming gift for her, and its a completely beautiful day outside. 


Stay strong. Be independent. Take care of yourself. BE PATIENT.

Keep. The. Faith.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Well I finally received a letter this morning. After reading it I'm filled with hope but still have some reservations about how to move forward & would appreciate comments.

Letter

This letter is not about the past, but the future. I couldn't sit here & write about all the pain & the hurt, the wrong doings, the alcohol & the drugs, the endless notes of (?). Watching each other fall apart, word by word & ignoring it. Blaming each other & ourselves, looking back & saying what if.

You have given me the greatest gift a man could ever give a woman, the chance to be a mother. Thank you. We shared in moments where a man & a woman couldn't be any closer, the outcome was our son. The most amazing & important thing I'll ever do or be in this life, a mother to him. It comes before anything else in this life, I'm sorry but that includes you too. I was not the mother I should have been for the last 3 1/2 years & I'll be damed if I continue down that path. I was weak & afraid, hid from that fear by using drugs & alcohol. My decision to raise our child here (Eire) has & never will be a regret. This is where he belongs with family, something I felt I could not do for him on my side. And I still feel that way. I do not care what anyone thinks of me, I care about what they feel for *name* (our son). I don't care if they are not there for me, but they will be there for *name*. I will always be his mother, no one can ever take that from me. All I can do in this life for him is to make sure he has every opportunity opened to him, for that I must be a strong mother. I will not let him see me beaten down & afraid, or taken for granted. I want him to see a happy healthy mommy, not one that couldn't follow through. Moving here was a sacrifice, leaving you is a terrible loss, one of the hardest things I ever had to do. I will not let him grow up thinking that is what a family is. I am prepared to make many more sacrifices for him in my lifetime. I hope overtime you will understand why I did go.

Let us move forward now, the hurt will not be gone today or tomorrow but I pray over time both our wounds will be healed. Let us both try to be the mommy & daddy our son will be proud of. I want him to see the brilliant & talented daddy ( so much for being a weak man?) that he has. I want him to say my parents are great & they did everything they could for me even when it meant sacrificing things in their life. I want us to be happy again. I don't know what will happen tomorrow or the next day, but what I do know is I will always be his mother & I will always be there for him. Strong happy & healthy. I will not let him down.

Is a reply warranted or should I just back off & lay low?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

After reading & reading this letter I see a woman who's determined in keeping her son safe not someone who wants to work on her marriage. I'm trying to read between the lines & am worried that I'm giving myself false hope. I'm so confused right now. I'm confused about the line "I will not let him grow up thinking that is what a family is"?...is that an admittance that we should work on our marriage?

I suppose not talking about past aggressions means she's still not ready to work on "herself" right now . I just hope the counselors don't call with a appointment date. I think this would do more harm than good right now because we'd have to be 100% committed together. Or should I let her decide that?


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

If it were me, I would not respond to that. It wasn't a bad letter, but it really said nothing about your relationship with her, and was all about your kid... Which is fine, really.

My opinion... She isn't anywhere near ready to start talking reconciliation.

Now is the hard time, buddy. Now is when you just have to leave her be and worry about yourself and your son... That's it. 

Back off.

Lay low.

Make yourself the best person you can be, and do it for you and your son, not her. If she has even a small amount of love left for you, she will notice.

You actually have a leg up on me with the kid thing, cause that forces her and you to see each other sometimes.

My wife and I had nothing like that, so literally when she left we had NO REASON to ever see each other again, and that was tough.

So, look at that as a plus.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah you're probably right man. I just started writing this, maybe now's not the time.


note:

You see thats the woman I fell in love with. Full of hope & determination for our son, and well at the time, us. When you became pregnant you were the most amazing woman to be around. So full of love & happiness that it was an absolute joy to be your man. I too don't want to talk about our past pains only the future. I know how great a mother you are to our son. He is a product of the best of us & we can be the best to him. Time apart will do us both good. It already has made me a better man & from your letter a better woman I hope. As I said I respect & do understand your decision to leave. I have to let you go. I have to let love go to see if it was mine/ours to begin with although it pains me immensely. I'm always here to talk if you wish


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## blahblahblah (Mar 2, 2010)

My opinion, and I have to stress that a lot because only you know your situation...

But my opinion is to not send that.

If writing it out makes you feel better then by all means write it out, but stow it away for now.

Seriously, you aren't a priority to her, so dont make her a priority for you. She doesn't deserve to know your feelings right now. 

Be selfish. 

Sorry if I sound like a jerk... And you will see from my thread in the reconciliation section that I'm stumbling myself... But, you know, just my 2 cents here for you.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

no man I didn't send it. Yes I have to re-focus now & please be as stern as you like. I need to hear this. My heart skipped a beat when I heard from her, you understand. Gotta focus now.



blahblahblah said:


> But my opinion is to not send that.
> 
> If writing it out makes you feel better then by all means write it out, but stow it away for now.QUOTE]
> 
> Its stored here. Hopeing that one day we could sit down together & read this.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

blahblahblah said:


> And you will see from my thread in the reconciliation section that I'm stumbling myself... But, you know, just my 2 cents here for you.


Excatly what I wanted to hear ( until tunera pipped up...gulp)
Thanks so much for reading mine!


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Just letting off some steam.

I picked my son up last night at 6M. I didn't hear from her until 10:AM the next morning when she called. No goodnight call again. She wanted to know why we were still sleeping & what time I kept him up at. I explained that we had a shower around 7:30PM & read till 8:15ish, he did wake up early but we just snuggled & he fell back to sleep (tk god cause I couldn't sleep a wink last night)

We met then at 2PM. I handed her a bag with pink nappies, sorry forgot where I was, diapers (pull ups just for night time)laughing while I explained they fit him perfect & that was the only colour (color) available. We both laughed. I asked it was ok if she could watch our son next Saturday night as I wanted to go out. She agreed, no problems. I also handed her a pizza for their dinner but she declined- no biggie- she explained she had pizza already for him. She also questioned why I didn't ask her for a haircut (she's a hairdresser), I squirmed & said that it was ok, no big deal & went our separate ways.

She called at 16:30 & obviously had a few scoops (drinks). She got annoyed that I had offered her pizza saying she had food & that she would never malnourish (?) our child nor leave him sitting in a corner. I said my god I would never think of you like that, she got upset. I said no matter what I said in the past I never thought that she was a bad mother to our son. She also complained about the haircut saying she would have done it no problem, that I could've spent the money on something else instead. I paused & said look that I couldn't have her touching me right now that my decision wasn't a F****** to her. Our son got agitated so she had to go. 

I sent a txt saying, no matter how much you hate me right now I have never questioned your love for your son & never will You are a great mother to him.

She replied, I have never hated you & nvr will. We have both been hurt.

I replied, Yes I know now.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Tues:

Wife rang & said, "What you were saying about introducing people to our son that also applies to you right? I mean we're not to have people over while he is there". Of course I said no that it would be detrimental to him right now. I was confused as to why she would ask me something like this then it got me thinking that maybe subconsciously she was making me accept that she had someone new.

Thursday morning:

yesterday I called my wife late to see if I could drop our son off to her in the morning as I had forgotten I had an appointment. Reluctantly she agreed & then txt'd me saying she would be over in the morning at 8:15am. This was confusing as the office is quite new her apartment so I couldn't understand why she said she'd be over at that time as she didn't have to work until the afternoon. I suspected that she wasn't at home at all last night or she didn't want me to see her apartment for whatever reason?

This morning after I got back from my appointment & everything was going well. We made a few jokes & then she decided to leave. On the way out the door, I couldn't help myself, I told her that I was so sorry that she felt so alone all this time & that I was so sorry for the way I treated her verbally. I told her this wouldn't happen again ever. We both cried. It was awkward & after she gave me a hug, I went to kiss her. -Mistake-she said no & then our son came out. She tried to explain that she knows I'm sorry & that crying in front of her wasn't weakness. I told her not to please feel soory for me. She said she wasn't.
She asked if that was what I wanted to talk to her about on Sunday, I said no it wasn't so she said she'd be up to talk on Sunday about everything. She left & I sent her a txt message saying, "That was not called for, I'm sorry-plz remember my actions from now on will be better than words ( this has to do with why I have to talk to her on Sunday)

All I have to go on now is gut instinct. I'm fed up saying the words, we can be stronger from this & we can make it much better if we try again. I'm looking for "word" advice here. I don't have a choice, everything will be coming out on Sunday & I don't want to sound repetitive. Advice plz?


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## hyndsight1 (Jan 28, 2010)

I think she already knows where you stand, so I would keep it brief and to the point: Affirm that you are open to reconciliation and will do what it takes to make your HALF (50/50 only) of the relationship work. Make sure you come across in a way that you are OK otherwise, (even if you are not yet). Remember, no begging, pleading, "I need you" etc. Very likely she has made up her mind and there is no changing it. Also, don't walk in with the expectation of clear soloution, that would be waaay too easy. Accept that you have very little control over her, and practice patience. Good luck


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you ever taken the time to find out WHY she's unhappy with you? Specifically? Have you taken steps to stop doing all those things?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Have you ever taken the time to find out WHY she's unhappy with you? Specifically? Have you taken steps to stop doing all those things?


No not really. Its been going on since xmas, well probably before that but we've never sat down & asked why we were so unhappy with each other in order to save our marriage. Sure she was pissed at me for shouting at her all the time for drinking but in a way I can see how I drove her to the pub. The arguments were daily & at times I screamed at her to get out, never thinking that she would follow through. But well she did & now I'm here. Jealousy probably had a major factor in this too. She's very attractive & one of my biggest fears was naturally someone approaching her. I did relay this fear to her saying, I understand why you want to stay in the pub & drink with people, who the hell wants to come home to a nagging spouse every night but it didn't help & well, I suppose my fears were justified in the end. I still don't really truly know if their friendship is platonic or physical. I guess I will find out this weekend.

I met her today to exchange our son. Boy what a word-exchange- anyway I like to meet at the library so prying eyes won't see us because its a small village & I hate anyone knowing my business (As if they don't know whats going on already) .She asked if I could bring him to her workplace, reluctantly I agreed but when I got there it was closed & she was across the road in the shops. I explained that I hate doing this in the street as it was embarrassing for me & all she said was "Oh". I continued walking with her telling her that I was sorry for what happened today. I think I was getting the sympathy vote because she said that she understands why I am upset but she didn't like doing it in front of our son. Of course I agreed & said that it wasn't planned it just came out & then I said, anyway I'm fighting for my marriage. Silence....nothing....so I turned & said OK I'll head, I will call him tonight before he goes to sleep.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

People avoid that which is unpleasant, and gravitate to that which is pleasant.

If you ever want her to want to be around you, you have to be that which is pleasant.

Part of that is learning what she does and doesn't like. You have to understand what she thinks and feels. And women typically NEED conversation and sharing feelings much more than men. 

If you want her back, start by being the person she can talk to. Any time she talks, shut up. And listen.

You can try printing out the Love Buster questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com and asking her to fill it out, so you'll 'know what you did wrong.' If she won't, try to fill it out for her. You have to know what about you is unpleasant, and STOP it. LBs are unpleasantness. See how you LB her, and spend the next couple months doing nothing but STOPPING yourself from doing a single LB. She won't realize you're doing it, but she may notice that she doesn't feel so bad when she is around you. That is very important.

It's like a bucket. LBs poke holes in the bucket. You can buy her flowers, take her out, massage her feet, listen to her, all that jazz, but if you slip up and do even ONE thing that's an LB to her, you just poked a hole that all those good things just flowed out through, emptying your bucket and leaving her with a neutral or negative (depending on how bad the LB was) balance in your love account.

Negative balance = stay away from sss so I don't feel bad.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's an idea of your LBs today:



sicksicksick said:


> shouting at her all the time _(obvious)_
> 
> The arguments were daily _(obvious)_
> 
> ...


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> People avoid that which is unpleasant, and gravitate to that which is pleasant.
> 
> If you ever want her to want to be around you, you have to be that which is pleasant.
> 
> ...


sss=?

As much as I'd love her to do this I guarantee there is no way she will fill out that form. Thanks anyway. I think she's too far gone to work on this. But I will let her make that decision herself & mention it if I feel I have the opportunity to do so on Sunday. 

BTW, Sunday is the day I will ask her to move back in . I know what you are thinking but in my mind this is the only way she'll see me "change". The blahblah thread stating NOT to seperate-made me think about how I could get her back in the house & an oppurtunty presented itself (workwise).Our situation is that she can't afford to rent & I can't afford this place without her. She is supposed to be living here in this house with me as we get rent allowance. If I go she has to too. And that means she will probably have to go back to the states because once they find out that she is not living here in this house, she has to prove that she can support herself (a job-paying taxes) & there is no way she can do that in this village. They will come down hard on us. Regardless of how it goes, I wanted to use the "friends" ploy & if she comes back, then work on the serious stuff.
I plan on saying this....thoughts plz Tunera.


Explain to her that I've met with social welfare etc (unemployment people)... & that I have no choice but to make this proposition to her.

I'm tired but in a nutshell...

I'll say look, As I said a kick in the teeth. I've made plans to open up my own shop on the 1st of may. After meeting with everyone from social welfare to the enterprise board the only way I'm going to make this work is with your help. Please remember before I say this that I'll never talk down nor shout at you again, period. I'll never take you for granted. 
After weighing up all the costs of rent, both here & at the shop, electricity & other bills- the welfare will only pay me for 6 Weeks & then I am on my own. I will also loose the rent allowance. I really need to do this for myself & for our son. I want to prove that I can provide for my family & eventually give you more time with your son. I like to ask you to move back in----wait for obvious anger---wait we can live as friends. I will not interfere in your life. I will sleep in the spare room & never shout nor disrespect you in front of our son. You can come & go as you please. Thousands of couples do this everyday.
In a nutshell....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sss = sicksicksick

Try to fill it out for her, like I said. You should know enough about her to know what things you've done that she doesn't like. Getting it down on paper will help you understand what specifically you can change.

And you should TELL her you're trying to fill it out for her.

People should always live together to fix a marriage, so go ahead and ask her. I wouldn't go so far as to say she can do whatever she wants, though. No need to bring that up.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Here's an idea of your LBs today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> sss = sicksicksick
> 
> Try to fill it out for her, like I said. You should know enough about her to know what things you've done that she doesn't like. Getting it down on paper will help you understand what specifically you can change.
> 
> ...


OK I will do that & not mention that she can come & go as she pleases. I guess this way I will find out if she really is having an affair.

Yes, no negativity with SSS...can't seem to change my name tho?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

She called this morning, early, to say that she had a very restless sleep last night with our son. After talking with my son & then hanging up, as I usually do, she called back & started to say that before anything else we need to work on our personal issues between us, that we both hurt each other very much. I tried to shut up & listen Tunera but it was too early in the morning & to be honest I didn't want to do this over the phone so I said look, you know me, I let things build up & build up until I popped. I said, again, I'm sorry that she was so lonely & that I didn't realize this until she moved out. That we both screwed up. She says she feels a lot of pressure right now & we both need to heal our personnel issues. I told her that I didn't mean to put her under pressure, that I just wanted her to realize that I know I screwed up too. I said that because of what I said I wasn't expecting her to move back in straight away that we still have major issues to sort out. I said, now over the phone wasn't a good way to discuss this & to leave it until Sunday so we could talk properly. She agreed.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

She sent this to my mother because, well, she got involved. I know she shouldn't have but anyway....

I'm sy I didn't txt last nite, I wanted to make sure I had a good think about how I feel. I feel pressured to make a second chance. I feel we have to heal on an individual level first & be good parents first. Based on those feelings I won't be getting back with him. I hate to say it like that, nobody knows what will happen today or tomorrow nite, right now I just want to take one day at a time.

We met today & I told her that my mother shouldn't have gotten involved. She seemed fine saying that what it did was only hurt me some more, that it didn't solve anything (she said it in a nice way) Anyway, I suggested that on Sunday we could either go for a drink or talk at the house. She said either was fine so I'm thinking that the pub could be a better environment as not only will we loosen up but emotions won't come into play there. What do you think?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you're doing a great job!

Please don't choose the pub, though. Is it cold where you are? If not, go to the park. You need a pleasant (non-alcohol-fueled) environment so you can feel at ease.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> I think you're doing a great job!
> 
> Please don't choose the pub, though. Is it cold where you are? If not, go to the park. You need a pleasant (non-alcohol-fueled) environment so you can feel at ease.


Cold, ha, in Eire, more like rain  It might be nice on Sunday though but I really think that SHE would be more relaxed in the pub & open up, (I think after having a drink will steady my nerves to). In moderation of course.

My thoughts about Sunday;

When our son was born, we both made the mistake of letting our son sleep with us. Although amazing at the time, intimacy was ruined between us. We were both new at this & alone without family & friends & I suppose looking back on it now, we both struggled & relied on each other for support, which wasn't forthcoming from me.

I didn't realize how depressed I was sitting around all the time doing nothing but being a mother! because I wasn't working I was totally resigned to raising our son while you worked, without telling you my intension's. I had a lot of personal issues to deal with myself & didn't seek the help I really needed except in a hash pipe, which in my case only amplified my anger & depression more.(we both smked)

I took it out on you because you were on anti-depressants & couldn't really understand why you needed them. I'd get agitated & angry when you would cry about abandonment issues you had with your family after all these years. It always seemed to effect you more when you were on those tabs & drinking. Who was I to judge your mind & well being. When you would get depressed it made me more angry to be around you.

I felt guilt for taking your motherhood away from you.

After awhile 'd forgotten why I loved you in the first place & constantly hurled abusive remarks at you when you needed me most, realizing now, how hurtful & damaging my comments were. I thought I was better than you, that I, didn't need any help.

In the 3yrs since we had our son we never socialized outside of our home together. I now realize that we both needed this in our lives.

I'll talk about how I will tackle my issues & rectifying my mistakes. My fear is the negitivity Tunera but I guess I will have no choice. I definetly don't want it to get to gloomy. I'm afraid that by talking about my mistakes that it will give her more justification to stay away from me but again I don't think I will have a choice in the matter. I've got to tell her how I screwed up, right?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, but I'd focus more on what SHE needs. Regarding you, all she needs to hear is how you are going to be different so she doesn't feel bad. If she opens up to ask about how you felt, offer it, but make the main focus on what SHE needs now. Show her solutions to that that involve you.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Yeah, but I'd focus more on what SHE needs. Regarding you, all she needs to hear is how you are going to be different so she doesn't feel bad. If she opens up to ask about how you felt, offer it, but make the main focus on what SHE needs now. Show her solutions to that that involve you.


OK but I'm guessing that I'll be the one that will do most of the talking, at the start anyway. I'll listen closely to what she has to say. Maybe a bottle of wine in the house instead.

Thank you again for your comments.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then talk about her. Ask her where things went wrong. Ask her what she's been feeling. What her dreams were 10 years ago. Five years ago. Ask her what you did to hurt her.

This isn't your time to sell yourself, really. It's your time to show that SHE can matter more to you than yourself. That SHE can have a happy, fulfilling life if you are in it. Isn't that really what this is all about? If she can be happy while you're in her life?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Then talk about her. Ask her where things went wrong. Ask her what she's been feeling. What her dreams were 10 years ago. Five years ago. Ask her what you did to hurt her.
> 
> This isn't your time to sell yourself, really. It's your time to show that SHE can matter more to you than yourself. That SHE can have a happy, fulfilling life if you are in it. Isn't that really what this is all about? If she can be happy while you're in her life?


Ask her where things went wrong & what ways I hurt her, from her perspective- I presume this will be after I let her know how I think I screwed up. Shut up & listen. 
OK thanks Tunera.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

'If worse comes to worst', frankly I know I'm gonna be upset. Is it OK to say to her that "I pushed you into his arms"?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

no

shut up and let HER talk


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Then talk about her. Ask her where things went wrong. Ask her what she's been feeling. What her dreams were 10 years ago. Five years ago. Ask her what you did to hurt her.
> 
> This isn't your time to sell yourself, really. It's your time to show that SHE can matter more to you than yourself. That SHE can have a happy, fulfilling life if you are in it. Isn't that really what this is all about? If she can be happy while you're in her life?


This is my mantra for tonight!


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

I could tell she really didn't want to be here today. She was complaining of back problems & looked very gloomy but after she dropped our son off I persuaded her to come back up to the house & talk then rather than later that evening. Walking back she said well what do you want to talk about, she looked pissed off so I said, don't worry I not going to cry & beg you to come back...no..I...its ok...really... we'll talk when we get up.

Family came down & collected our son. I said that I wasn't under any illusion that we would be getting back together anytime soon. That we have a lot of personal healing to do before any of that. We sat there & I explained my job proposal. Word for word (as above). I watched her expression when I said "move in" I didn't notice any grimace on her face. I told her to think about moving back in. I told her how I screwed up & how I would fix those things- I didn't talk for long- she questioned my motives for blaming pot?. Then I shut up & listened. I'm still kinda numb now but the gist of it is, though not in any particular order.

she knows how sorry I am & what's done is done. She didn't want to talk about the past. Right now it over, done. She did get emotional at times but I didn't. She thought the shop was a bad idea that she didn't want our son to loose our house. I told her that I was determined to show her, "Don't show me"!, no our family, that I can do this & well just maybe that it will give her more time with her son. She said that she was very angry that I took her motherhood away from her. She said right now she is only focused on herself & our son. That she would never leave or take him away from here. She said shes going to be a better mother for him. 

Subject on house came up again. So you only want me to move in for the money, no I said, I want you to see that I can be a better man to you & your son & financially it would be better for us both. She said something about maybe 2-4months we can see. I said yes we have a lot of issues to sort out before thats decided & wanted her to know people can change & people do deserve second chances- but it felt like I was on a sinking ship

I brought up the subject about HIM & was basically told not to listen to rumors nor was it any of my business. She said something about her way & my way of sorting out our pain so right now I'm still kinda in the dark about that one. I didn't push it. She wanted a further discussion about the business idea & that I could call & talk to her anytime about our son or if I have any personal issues about my past that she would still talk to me. Naturally I told her the same. She said that she felt alone. She told me something that she hasn't even told her doctor yet, that she doesn't remember verbally abusing our landlord (long story) when she only had two drinks. She genuinely doesn't remember a single thing about that incident. Because of our troubles, it created another person inside her..evil/angry/rage.....she's blaming me for that person....how the hell can I defeat that???

I think I ended with something about actions speak louder than words & just to look at me...she said she is very observant...We hugged & kissed goodbye

I see a glimmer of hope but its a major battle ahead for me. She's completely done with our marriage & doesn't need to change anything about herself (not that I pointed anything out to her) other than to get away from me to be at peace. I can't see how we're going to change if all the time we're going to see each other is when we exchange our son or simple phone conversations like, hi how was your day...good..is our son there! Yes, I have to act like its over now & I'm supposed to be OK with that....puh!


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

How do I compete with a woman that won't look in the past to see the real reason for our marriage breakup? She's stoic in blaming me for the evil woman she becomes while drinking. As I said to her one night, why are you so angry when you drink? she replied, Just to you *name* just to you. She thinks my constant arguments & verbal abuse caused this monster inside her to come out but there's much much more to it than that. The problem is, now that she is gone, that ugly monster won't rear its ugly head again & my fear is that she's really believe that her decision was the correct one. 
How can I make her see that I really was there for her if shes so unwilling to face her demons.

I feel like telling her that if she ever wanted to have a wonderful loving family with us all in it together she needs to look in her past to find the true answers. I was always there for her. Sure I got lost along the way but don't throw away our sons future because you believe that I was the cause of "The other person" inside you


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All you can do is continue improving yourself and being the best dad you can be. You're investing too much into CHANGING HER MIND. You can't do that. All you can do is work on yourself and take a chance that she will see something she WANTS.

Aside from that, it sounds like it's time to stop dwelling on the marriage you don't have any more, and accept that she may NOT be in your future. I really really think that if you will pull back, move on, you will (1) learn how to be happy with YOURSELF whether she comes back or not, and (2) actually be MORE attractive to her because you CAN move on. People want nothing more than what they can't have.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> All you can do is continue improving yourself and being the best dad you can be. You're investing too much into CHANGING HER MIND. You can't do that. All you can do is work on yourself and take a chance that she will see something she WANTS.
> 
> Aside from that, it sounds like it's time to stop dwelling on the marriage you don't have any more, and accept that she may NOT be in your future. I really really think that if you will pull back, move on, you will (1) learn how to be happy with YOURSELF whether she comes back or not, and (2) actually be MORE attractive to her because you CAN move on. People want nothing more than what they can't have.


Yes I agree But.... 


Is this so bad to send? 



Thank you for talking to me yesterday. I can see now how my letters were pointless & desperate to you, which has only pushed your further away. Finally after a month I now know where I stand. Staying away & separated will "Without a doubt" never release that "Other person" again. That monster that I helped create. I fear that you would be content in that answer. It sounds like you had shoulder help for that conclusion but you know as well as I do that the anger was there long before I came along. Deep down you know this but you're not prepared to go back to look & I can't do a damn thing about it. You're content in thinking that I am now the reason why you're so unhappy in your life & as long as you are away from me, the longer that we are separated, you will believe this to be true. Yes I helped push out that anger even more but deep down you know I was there for you wanting to help. I just hope that one day you will forgive my human failings as a husband & come to see/notice that you could live a peaceful & happy life with me again by your side. You say you feel you have to heal on an individual level first for your son. Well be true to him & yourself.

Take care


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not bad.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Thank you. I really was waiting on your approval. Your advice has been stern, straight forward & to the point. Very very much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time.

Now I've to work on me & continue to be a loving father to our son. As for my wife, well, you know I will always be there for her, hoping that in the short term she will come to forgive herself......because I will still be waiting.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Just letting off some loooong steam....sy

I told her a letter was taped on the cover of our sons book. I didn't have an envelope so laughed when I saw the title of the book, "No place like home" about a little mole...I swear it wasn't intentional. Then I thought, well look at that !. I giggled when I told her to laugh at the title as it definitely wasn't deliberate. She smiled & said it was OK. She looked beautiful.

She sent me a txt to call at 7:10pm.
My heart skipped a beat. Had the letter hit a nerve? I called but it was only for me to say goodnight to our son. SHE txt'd me to call to say goodnight to our son?....anyway, agreed to meet @ 2pm the nxt day for our son.

That night I received a very nasty txt/joke from a friend of hers stateside. I knew by the area code. She obviously didn't think I would know the number. I immediately txt a laughing face asking who this is? Ur mother, was the reply. I txt back, I sent you an email mom. In the email all I said was, Why the hostility? do you have something to say to me or will we leave it at that. She txt'd back, Ha how are you son. I didn't respond. Obviously trying to get me worked up but I wasn't biting. Still no email response. I could just imagine my wife laughing at my letter with her friend.

Next morning when I called my son she seemed a bit gloomy. She didn't mention the letter. We agreed to meet at 1:45pm for my son in her shop. She called at 1:43pm agitated because I wasn't there yet. I walked in & with customers waiting she said, nicely, All his books are in the bag & I packed a pair of pj's for him tonight. What part of NOT letting people know that we are separated!. doesn't she understand we could loose the damn house!...left, exchanged pleasantries...

She called wanting to know why I didn't tell her that her friend from the states had called (Coincidence!)& was looking for her. What last night? ... No, I was talking to her on Sunday. I said I haven't spoken to her in awhile & she never told me to tell you that.(I had called her friend when this all started & told her it was in confidance so I know she never told me to tell her that) Continued with small talk & she agreed to drop up money that was owed later that evening (7:30pm).

7:40pm, received txt saying weather to bad can she give it to me in the am. I said sure (it was snowing). She txt'd back to call as she wanted to say goodnight. I said I was low on credit. The bloody cheek! using up my credit! She did call, said goodnight & that was that. I sent her a txt'd around 8:20pm saying that I would meet her at 10am. I haven't heard a word back. Its now 10pm & I feel like sending her a text saying, you could reply to my txt you know! , but I didn't.

Cried like a baby tonight. I couldn't stop. Real tears, real emotions. I cried the most I care to remember. I know I can't change her mind. I know I'm can't control her. I just thought my letter would have somehow triggered something but I'm sure it was just brushed aside.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, at least it helped you to understand the truth - you really CAN'T control her actions or reactions. Maybe you can step back a bit more now?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

You called me a weak man. Throughout our relationship & marriage you hid behind drugs & alcohol. It is you that is weak. You watched me plead with you from the beginning to stop being destructive but you were to weak to stop & this was when we were totally in love before that abusive monster appeared. You held a man, who loved you deeply, cry for the very 1st time in your arms (location) while he pleaded with you to stop but it was you that was to weak to stop. Those closest, that gave you chances, pleaded with you to stop (name) but you were to weak. I held your best friend (name) trembling in my arms, crying in an airport, begging me not to leave her alone with you because she was too afraid to be near you- but you were to weak to notice.

Marriage is a very tough & rewarding struggle but you walked away instead of dealing with REALITY because you are weak. You self destructed our marriage & now our son will have to be counselled in the future for the rest of his life because it is you that is weak. Don't kid yourself you had the signs from your own past but you were too weak to act on them. I was a man that wants to stand throughout all of this with you but you are to weak to walk with me & now you're content in blaming me- how weak. You'll discover that the key to being truly and genuinly happy comes from within, not from others.

You bet me down over the years with your mood swings, depression, alcohol & drugs but I still stood by you because I loved you & you called me weak. I'm content in knowing that I will never be that angry abusive man that YOU helped create but you are to weak to see why I turned out like that. Our wonderful son. You know that he will always be safe with me while you continue to ignore the truth & move on away from our family-WEAK. You said that you want your son to know you did everything you could for him even when it meant sacrificing things in your life. How dare you call me weak. I am a LION. Watch me ROAR! - I will not let you destroy those that care for you the most anymore because you won't FORGIVE yourself-weak. I WILL FIGHT THIS WITH YOU & BESIDE YOU FOR OUR SON! I will protect our son from all of this. Upon self reflection I asked you for a chance to show you I could change & be an even better man because I love you but you don’t believe in dwelling on the past & giving chances to people who should matter to you most-weak- & worse you feel that our situation is unfixable-weak! I wish I had the courage to write this a lot sooner but I was afraid to loose you. But not anymore.

This weekend I'm taking my son away for a few days & she will be free. I have to put a stop to this now...


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Tunera do you think I should compose this letter in a more civil way? less angry but keeping all the points I listed?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

HI, *name*. In other for me to heal too there is something that I need you to understand why I treated you the way I did. I'm only now beginning to understand why I turned into that angry abusive man that I never was before I met you & I guess thats part of the healing process. Please understand I'm not angry with you or myself anymore. We/I lost focus on what mattered most to us both & I hope its not too late to begin again. We need to forgive each other & ourselves. You'll discover that the key to being truly and genuinely happy comes from within, not from others. You need to forgive yourself. I wish I had the courage to write this a lot sooner but I was so afraid to loose you. But not anymore.

I need to say this.

How did I become so angry & abusive to you? Throughout our relationship & marriage you hid behind drugs & alcohol because of your personal issues. You watched me plead with you from the beginning to stop being so destructive to yourself but no matter what I said, you continued on that same path. You held a man, who loved you deeply, cry for the very 1st time in your arms (Location) while I pleaded with you to stop. I couldn't understand why you couldn't stop because at that time we had our baby boy, were in love & you were happy to be around me. I was becoming angry with you. The future looked good for us both but you were so angry within yourself & so unstoppable. 

You resented me for not working & raising our son but instead of looking at this in a different light & dealing with your issues, you used that to further push yourself away from us & abused yourself more. Just as I have beaten you down with my anger, with the constant battles of your mood swings, depression, alcohol & drugs, I became a beaten man. I still stood by you because I loved you & I really tried to be supportive to you at that time but couldn't see the danger it was having on our relationship. Those closest to you, that gave you chances, pleaded with you to stop (name) but you were, I'm afraid weak to seek the help you needed from those around you that loved you. 

Upon self reflection, I asked you for a chance to show you I could change & be an even better man because I love you but you don’t believe in dwelling on the past & giving chances to people who should matter to you most & worse you feel that our situation is unfix-able! I held your best friend (name) trembling in my arms, crying in an airport, begging me not to leave her alone with you because she was too afraid to be near you & later too afraid to speak up to you about it. Just as you are content in blaming me for for pushing you out I'm content in knowing that I will never be that angry abusive man that YOU helped create & hopefully in this letter you can see why I turned out like that. I'm not admitting any of my faults here because I've done that in my previous letters & will constantly work on my issues. 

You need to forgive yourself & come home to a family that cares greatly about you. Our wonderful son. You know that he will always be safe with me while you continue to ignore the truth & move on away from your family. You said that you want your son to know you did everything you could for him even when it meant sacrificing things in your life. How about some self belief that this will make a stronger bond between us &......forgive yourself!

I dunno, am I being weak in composing this letter this way?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go back and reformat it into paragraphs so we can read it without going cross-eyed, ok?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Go back and reformat it into paragraphs so we can read it without going cross-eyed, ok?


Yes sorry about that


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sicksicksick said:


> HI, *name*. For me to heal too, I need you to understand my actions. I'm only now beginning to understand why I turned into that angry man that I never was before I met you. I'm not angry with you or myself anymore. We/I lost focus on what mattered most to us both & I hope it's not too late to begin again. We need to forgive each other & ourselves. You'll discover that the key to being truly and genuinely happy comes from within, not from others. You need to forgive yourself. I wish I had the courage to write this a lot sooner but I was so afraid to lose you. But not anymore.
> 
> I need to say this.
> 
> ...


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Thank you. If this doesn't pull at her heart strings then I'm resigned to admit that she is just a selfish emotionless woman that can't be reasoned with, no matter what kind of help she is given. Thank you Turnera for that wonderful shoulder of yours. Your wisdom has really helped a broken man- fixable


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure you do this in paper form and mail or hand it to her. Because she most likely will dismiss it in anger or self-protection when you give it to her, but you have a 50/50 chance she'll hold onto it. And read it later, down the road, when her life is falling apart. THEN, it might mean something. Don't expect it to mean anything right now.

You might also want to relay to her that you have a time limit on just how long you WILL stick around and wait for her. It's recommended that you wait no more than 6 months, before you move on and file for legal separation. For your sanity.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Make sure you do this in paper form and mail or hand it to her. Because she most likely will dismiss it in anger or self-protection when you give it to her, but you have a 50/50 chance she'll hold onto it. And read it later, down the road, when her life is falling apart. THEN, it might mean something. Don't expect it to mean anything right now.
> 
> You might also want to relay to her that you have a time limit on just how long you WILL stick around and wait for her. It's recommended that you wait no more than 6 months, before you move on and file for legal separation. For your sanity.


Yes OK. I don't think I will tell her how much time she has though. I think I'll just add at the end of the letter, "Naturally there is a time frame in this decision. If our marriage has not being fixed by this date I will start to file for legal separation. The consequences of this action will not burden me with guilt because I know I have done everything to save this marriage".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, I meant for you to set a limit for yourself. It doesn't hurt to tell her you won't wait forever, but I wouldn't set a time for HER. I had a boyfriend do that once, back in high school (he was in college); he told me "I don't think you're mature enough for me. I'm going to give you til the end of May, and if you haven't grown up enough, I'm going to have to move on." Yeah, I know. But back then I just begged him not to leave me. Thank God I finally left HIM. But ultimatums don't work. Just let her know you won't wait around forever for her.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> No, I meant for you to set a limit for yourself. It doesn't hurt to tell her you won't wait forever, but I wouldn't set a time for HER. I had a boyfriend do that once, back in high school (he was in college); he told me "I don't think you're mature enough for me. I'm going to give you til the end of May, and if you haven't grown up enough, I'm going to have to move on." Yeah, I know. But back then I just begged him not to leave me. Thank God I finally left HIM. But ultimatums don't work. Just let her know you won't wait around forever for her.


DOH! too late. I just gave her the letter 20mins ago :lol: ah well.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> No, I meant for you to set a limit for yourself. It doesn't hurt to tell her you won't wait forever, but I wouldn't set a time for HER. I had a boyfriend do that once, back in high school (he was in college); he told me "I don't think you're mature enough for me. I'm going to give you til the end of May, and if you haven't grown up enough, I'm going to have to move on." Yeah, I know. But back then I just begged him not to leave me. Thank God I finally left HIM. But ultimatums don't work. Just let her know you won't wait around forever for her.


Damn after reading that letter over & over again I can now see how I just screwed that up  that letter was perfect. I didn't need to add anything & I screwed up by ending with a threat & a bloody ultimatum!

The next time I talk to her & I sense an opening, I'm going to ask her to go get the letter & rip up the last paragraph. That I shouldn't have ended the letter with a threat or ultimatum, I only wanted to say that I won't be around forever.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Well last week was terrible for me. The weekend was excruciating painful. I couldn't eat nor sleep. Tried to be a good dad. I think he had fun but could tell he knew something was up with me.
From what I remember she called Sunday morning & made me spit it out that I missed her & wished she was here with us both but she got defensive saying that I was a very manipulative man with my letter & how dare I bring up her friends when I only knew them 6yrs. I explained regardless of how long I know them, this happened in our time frame. Again she said that I was a very manipulative man. My stomach was in a knot I couldn't think straight. Now she thinks I'm manipulative. 

Came back to a few arguments during the week & a couple of shouts from me saying you know that what I said in that letter was the truth.

Now its the second day since I txt'd her saying we don't need to talk. If she has a question then she could txt it to me & of course she could call our son anytime she wished. So we haven't talked.

Last night I came across the book by Robert Glover - No More Mr Nice Guy & boy did it really hit home. I made an appointment to see a doc on Mon & then hopefully a therapist soon after. I feel that after speed reading through a few chapters I can really see how she thinks I'm manipulate. I feel that last letter was a lot of shame dumping on my part. I'm only now seeing I need help. I still want my marriage to work. 

I wish I could tell her the reason why I'm going to see the therapist & what I've found out from my readings but I can't see a way of doing that. I know I can't give her anymore letters. She knows I'm going to a therapist because I asked her how I go about seeing one.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Glad to hear these changes. I'm sorry they had to come after so much heartache but, truly, how else would we learn, if not through pain?

DO keep up with the therapist. They can work wonders. And keep reading and learning and improving.

PS You sound like a really good dad; your son is lucky to have you.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Couldn't help but post this from 

Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce

"If you are a woman who fits this description, please don't give up. I have seen so many men make amazing changes once they truly understand how unhappy their wives have been. Sometimes men are slow to catch on, but when they do, their determination to turn things around can be astounding. I have seen many couples strengthen their marriages successfully even though it seemed an impossible feat. Give your husband another chance. Let him prove to you that things can be different. Keep your family together. Divorce is not a simple answer. It causes unimaginable pain and suffering. It takes an enormous amount of energy to face each day. Why not take this energy and learn some new skills and make your marriage what you've wanted it to be for so long?"


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

In the morning when I pick up by son I'm going to tell her that I'm sorry for the shame dumping. Not for conversation just to say it & walk away. Sure I've nothing else to loose now.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Sicksicksick,

Quit apologizing to her for every little thing. If she gets mad, she gets mad. So be it. You have to let others deal with their own emotions.

Hey I'm one to talk -- took me a good while to stop that myself. Now I'm like -- oh well you're mad. Kind of like a joke to me now. Can't get worse.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Feelingalone said:


> Sicksicksick,
> 
> Quit apologizing to her for every little thing. If she gets mad, she gets mad. So be it. You have to let others deal with their own emotions.
> 
> Hey I'm one to talk -- took me a good while to stop that myself. Now I'm like -- oh well you're mad. Kind of like a joke to me now. Can't get worse.


Yes you're probably right. Things never go as planned. I waited at her shop this morning for our son. And waited. I called & told her the next time she was running late to call me & let me know. I was stern. I walked back home & as you can imagine the next phone call from her wasn't really pleasant. She was in a pissy humour & said that she'd be in the shop in 2mins. I was in no mood to apoligise now. Just have to keep my distance.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sicksicksick said:


> I walked back home & as you can imagine the next phone call from her wasn't really pleasant. She was in a pissy humour & said that she'd be in the shop in 2mins.


Awww...poor baby!

Work on figuring out consequences for such times. Or eliminate her having the control by YOU going to get him instead of depending on her.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm sorry about the "he said she said" & the grammar & the punctuation. I'm sorry I'm too tired to fix it right now its very late. 

Yesterday I got a visit from a woman police officer asking to speak to me about the texts I was sending to my wife.

Three weeks ago I found out the truth that I had suspected all along. I called to say goodnight to my son & she didn't answer the phone at the usual time, 8pm. I got worried because they were down having a picnic earlier on that evening & was hoping nothing had happened to them. Days earlier a woman was attacked outside the post office where they were walking so naturally I was concerned.
Eventually she called & because of the echo in the hallway, I joked that it sounded like the ladies loo in the pub. Of course she got all indignant & defensive because, guess what, she been drinking. She had my son in the pub when he was supposed to be in bed. A 3yr old in a pub at f****g 8pm. I told her I didn't want her in "that" particular pub. She said because of him? I said well yes because of him too. She told me, well you're just going to have to deal with that. What, are you telling me that you're seeing him now. Yes she said & I'll just have to get over it.!!!

I lost it & called her all the names imaginable. Liar, adulteress wh*** etc. & the following day, in public, I screamed that she was an adulteress W**** as I collected my son. Twice I did this.

I send the usual hateful text messages. Nothing dangerous or threating just that she was an adulteress ***** etc..& a few swear words thrown in. She in turn sent messages that would infuriate me by saying that I should stop feeling like a helpless victim & that I was to get over it. It's was hell for a week or two.

The other day I txt'd her laughing at how Accord (marriage counselors) finally setup a meeting for us both 6months to late. She replied that she didn't think that was funny-with a crying face. Think about it.....I said, Don't even go there. Like you wanted to work on your marriage. I said that if she was so upset by this news that I would be willing to make an appointment. She said that I would hold her "mistakes" over her head for the rest of her life. That I think the break down of us is totally her fault". I told her as I said before it was both our faults & as for her "mistakes" that I would be willing to forgive & move on. Are you willing to forgive mine?" (it took a hell of a lot for me to write that). She replied, You have been forgiven over & over for every harsh sh***y word but I know u hold grudges & pain inside, I'm sorry.

I felt baited.

She annoyed with a stupid text message Monday morning & after a few messages back & forth the police called to my door. I politely invited the police woman into my home & she told me that she had read the messages & considered them nasty. I told her (stupidly) that that was her interpretation. She said that she wouldn't mention those words in front of a child. I told I wouldn't,t either & that I could show her some nasty messages that she sent me. When she asked to see them but I said no that I wasn't the one who was making the complaint. In the end she said I should put a stop to those type of text messages. I agreed & that was that.

I was furious & wanted to tell them not to listen to a violent drunk & & pill popper but I didn't. I was furious with myself for not involving the police a long time ago when I really should have. I sent her a message. "With your history its inevitable that you will fall flat on your face. Inevitable. Whether it be 1 year or 10, I will be there & I'm looking forward to that day".

Today after ever thing she sent a text . "I'm sorry I don't want you to be unhappy. I wanted you to be free of me an unhappeness"......

Do I need to say how I feel about this statement.


I'm sorry I'm tired. There's a lot more to say. I thank you for letting me spill all this out & for reading.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What exactly is going on with you two now?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> What exactly is going on with you two now?


I think my above post says it all Tunera.

Always the adulterers tactic. Blame others & not yourself. The pain & anger I feel is because she met that f****r & expects me to be ok with it & because it was "both" our faults that our marriage was in turmoil, she expects me to be understanding & complacent with this. It would've taken a hell of man to forgive her adulteress ways but I was "willing" to try. Of course now that she is with him, all of this means F**k all to her. She baited me. She says I'm to stop playing the "helpless victim". What a f**ing b**ch. She is f****g another man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you going to expose the affair to her family and his family? Or do you just not want her back?


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

turnera said:


> Are you going to expose the affair to her family and his family? Or do you just not want her back?


Too much bitterness & anger has crossed the bridge to amend our marriage for now so I'd say no I wouldn't take her back.
I know nothing of who the retard is so contacting his family wouldn't really be an option, although I do like the idea. As for her family, well she hasn't got any so to speak. I only have an address for her alcoholic/pill popping mother in America so I might in the near future write & tell her how proud she must be that her daughter turned out exactly like her. If I were to do it now I think my letter would be full of anger and expletives so I think I'll wait till I cool off a little.

Do you think its a good idea to do that anyway? what would it matter now? Is it just for self satisfaction?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, if you don't intend to take her back, just walk away and consider it lessons learned. You'll gain nothing from dragging it on.


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## sicksicksick (Mar 7, 2010)

Easier said than done. Its advice I would give to someone going through similar difficulties but its in my face all the time & I can't get/walk away from it. His & her workplace are literally 5mins from my front door. Its not something I can avoid & because its such a small ( & I mean small) town, not only does everyone know our business, but I have to pass by to do my shopping everyday. If it had of been 3weeks ago I know I would have lost control if I saw him, & judging by my "tunnel vision" reaction to "her" when I screamed what a adulteress wh*** she was in front of our son, it wouldn't have been pretty. I never experienced this before. Now I don't think I will lose it but I have my moments where I wish I would bump into him.

I want to move but my financial situation won't allow it although I told her that I was. I'm angry because I can't move & if I do what will happen to my son?. Will I now be the cause of his inevitable anxiety? I told her in a letter some time ago that I won't feel any guilt for moving but I don't think she associated that with our son. Our son is registered for school in this town although it won't be for another year, If I move I run the risk of giving her my boy for five days of the week. I couldn't bear to slog through life without him like that. I've been with him from day one until she moved out.

I'm angry that I have to see her everyday. Tomorrow is our 2yr wedding anniversary & I'm not going to say a word. I was planning on, no thinking about getting a card & writing down what exactly I blame her for so she can't use the excuse that I blame her for everything but I know its completely pointless & won't. Its so off the cuff for her that it infuriates me. And hearing her night after night (when she has him) say to our son, "Tell daddy you love him" & "And tell him sweet dreams", makes my blood boil. He's well capable of saying it himself. Yes I have told her that the only voice I want to hear when I call my son is my son but it never gets through. Same goes for our meeting place when we exchange our son. I had to tell her that she is not welcome near my home. I couldn't bear having her casually knock on my door right now. 

Thanks for reading.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, your assignment now is to go out and get.a life. Ok? Now's the time for starting YOUR life. Do you belong to a gym? Great time to start. Do you have a junior college nearby? Sign up for a continuing education class in something you've always wanted to learn. Is there something you always wanted to do with your kids? Sign up for it. Take care of yourself, ok?


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