# She cancelled the vacation I planned for her birthday



## jd08

I had planned a weekend trip for my wife's birthday which is in Saturday. Shes also about 6 months pregnant with our 2nd and so this was supposed to be a chance for us to "get away" before the baby is born. 

Our daughter (3 yrs old, 4 next month) has been running a bit of a fever this week but she is ok now except for a little coughing. We were supposed to leave this morning and her parents were going to babysit this weekend. 

Another important thing is that we've spent ONE night alone away from our daughter in almost 4 years. During that night my wife cried and called home because she missed her. 

So I get home yesterday and she says she doesn't want to go this weekend because she hasn't packed and there was too much to do to get ready. I pressed her on it and she said "well we can still spend the day here together on Saturday." She also told me that she thought I planned the trip more because I wanted to go and that's why I was upset about it. She finally concluded by saying we can re schedule but she wants our daughter to go along and doesnt know why we can't just go as a family. 

I told her that wasn't the point of the trip. She accused me of acting childish and has ignored me since last night. 

Thoughts? Im pretty upset at the moment.


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## jd08

Forgot to mention I had already paid for the trip and had keys to the condo. She also said earlier in the week that she wanted to go then pulled this on me last second.


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## tacoma

You have to sit your wife down and explain to her that YOUR needs aren't being met and that is a danger to her "Family".
This is only going to get worse with another child on the way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I got this

tacoma said:


> You have to sit your wife down and explain ti ber that YOUR needs are 't being met and that is a danger to her "Family".
> This is inly going ro get worse with another child on the way
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Ano

Do something as a family the night before such as mini golf or chuckie cheese that way your wife won't feel so guilty for doing something without her. 

Its hard for us moms to leave our little kids but its essential to a healthy marriage to have alone time with your spouse.


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## Tall Average Guy

Ask her flat out why she does not want to spend the weekend alone with you. I would follow up with whether she sees her self as just a mother, or as a wife as well.


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## Wiltshireman

OP,

A weekend away for the two of you before the new baby, what a lovley thing to arrange for your wifes birthday.
I do not see where you went wrong.

It was not a last moment supprise.
You had arrange cover for your Daughter.

Pack your wifes bag for her and go and get some quality time with each other as that will be in short supply when the 2nd child arrives. See if the MIL can talk some sence into her.


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## tacoma

The more I think about the I realize how wrong what she is doing is.

I would have went on the vaca alone, downloaded a book for the weekend and shut off my cell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout

Obvious to her he wants sex..thats why.

Overnight stay = sex

If he was really giving for her birthday he would do an overnight stay as obviously she does want to be cornered into sex.

The truth


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## SalvageMyMarriage

Agree that you should tell her that you have your needs as well. Talk to her nicely and let her know that you feel that you both are drifting apart. It is not a healthy marriage if all the parents do is care for the/ir children only. Maybe start with arranging for a date night first? Then plan for a vacation together?

It might also be a case that it will be troublesome for her to travel around at 6 months' pregnant. So try understanding from your wife's perspective?


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## tacoma

Really you need to be angry and show it.

This is unacceptable and she needs to know that in no uncertain terms
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Go by yourself you already paid for it.


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## Thound

The one thing i would do is not do this for HER Bday when its kinda for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

She needs to loosen those apron strings, the child is not going to die without her mommy for one or two nights. Plus this would have been great bonding time with the grandparents. She is pushing the marriage to the back burner, and that will bite her in the ass on down the line. I am very sorry she pulled this, I think it sounds like it would have been really wonderful for you guys.


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## jd08

It's for the marriage. We need time together especially before the 2nd is born. I suppose she doesnt feel that way. 



Thound said:


> The one thing i would do is not do this for HER Bday when its kinda for you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dr. Rockstar

Trying2figureitout said:


> Obvious to her he wants sex..thats why.
> 
> Overnight stay = sex
> 
> If he was really giving for her birthday he would do an overnight stay as obviously she does want to be cornered into sex.
> 
> The truth


Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY?

Lets say you're right. Lets say that your right. Lets say that the OP is leaving out an important piece of information, that he is expecting sex for an overnight trip? Lets also say that the OP also neglected to say that his wife never wanted to go to begin with and only agreed to the trip because she felt coerced.

None of that addresses the underlying issue, that she hasn't spent a night away from her child in four years. That's not typical behavior. It's not respectful to her husband. It's not fair to the grandparents either because it implies the grandparents aren't trustworthy. It not only tells the husband that he's not a priority, it also tells him that feeding her insecurities mean more to her than being with him.

It's not cool to be so flip about this. The wife is being immature, selfish and possessive. She needs to talk to someone--maybe the husband, maybe a close friend or an objective third party. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend talking to the parents-in-law, because the wife's behavior was probably shaped by something her parents did when she was younger.


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## Dr. Rockstar

jd08 said:


> It's for the marriage. We need time together especially before the 2nd is born. I suppose she doesnt feel that way.


Question: did she ever seem like she was excited for this trip?


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## Aunt Ava

Your wife may have a different perspective if she reads http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...70632-i-took-him-granted-now-hes-leaving.html. 

It is understandable that you would be upset since she was onboard last week and it's already paid for. 

It is worrying that she has spent only one (miserable) night apart from your daughter in nearly four years. 

Is she so focused on being a good mom that she neglects being a good wife? Unfortunately, it's far more common since we have become such a child focused society.

I think you really need to spell it out for her that you felt it was important to spend some quality time together before your lives change with the new arrival. Ask her why she feels the need to cancel. Then buy her the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley Jr. for her birthday. 

P.S. I think it was an incredible birthday gift, taking her away for a weekend away from it all. I hope she comes around today.


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## tom67

Aunt Ava said:


> Your wife may have a different perspective if she reads http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...70632-i-took-him-granted-now-hes-leaving.html.
> 
> It is understandable that you would be upset since she was onboard last week and it's already paid for.
> 
> It is worrying that she has spent only one (miserable) night apart from your daughter in nearly four years.
> 
> Is she so focused on being a good mom that she neglects being a good wife? Unfortunately, it's far more common since we have become such a child focused society.
> 
> I think you really need to spell it out for her that you felt it was important to spend some quality time together before your lives change with the new arrival. Ask her why she feels the need to cancel. Then buy her the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley Jr. for her birthday.
> 
> P.S. I think it was an incredible birthday gift, taking her away for a weekend away from it all. I hope she comes around today.


That link you provided would be perfect for his wife to read.


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## Mavash.

Ducking here but I don't like to be away from my kids overnight when they are little (under 9). Among other reasons they don't sleep well when I'm gone and then I pay for it later. Even when I go out I'm home to tuck my youngest in otherwise I can expect a visit from her in the middle of the night which sucks.


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## tacoma

tom67 said:


> That link you provided would be perfect for his wife to read.


It should be a sticky in the ladies lounge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

My ex-wife did the whole super mom thing...co-sleeping, kids in 37 different activities each, always on the go... and we ended up divorcing because I had the audacity to want a wife.


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## samyeagar

Aunt Ava said:


> Your wife may have a different perspective if she reads http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...70632-i-took-him-granted-now-hes-leaving.html.
> 
> It is understandable that you would be upset since she was onboard last week and it's already paid for.
> 
> It is worrying that she has spent only one (miserable) night apart from your daughter in nearly four years.
> 
> Is she so focused on being a good mom that she neglects being a good wife? Unfortunately, it's far more common since we have become such a child focused society.
> 
> I think you really need to spell it out for her that you felt it was important to spend some quality time together before your lives change with the new arrival. Ask her why she feels the need to cancel. Then buy her the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley Jr. for her birthday.
> 
> P.S. I think it was an incredible birthday gift, taking her away for a weekend away from it all. I hope she comes around today.


That thread jumped immediately to mind even before I was done reading the first post in this thread.


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## MarriedTex

Thound said:


> The one thing i would do is not do this for HER Bday when its kinda for you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's OK to do something for the sake of the marriage. But trying to cover a hotel sex get away as "her" birthday present wreaks of covert contracts. 

You've got big problems if you haven't spent time away and the first kid is almost four years old. Hindsight is 20/20. But the right time to deal with this issue is before you start expanding the family. You need to get the foundation of the relationship right before you start building the family larger. If youv'e devolved into an exclusively kid-focused couple with no time for your relationship, adding another baby is not going to help matters. I'm sure you recognize that now.

You've made this a losing battle by tying this to her birthday. Ostensibly, that is something for her. Think of the sunk money into the get away as tuition for your lesson on how to handle your relationship better. A person should get to do what they want on their birthday. Obviously, she is uncomfortable leaving kid because you haven't built up to this over the past four years.

If you're going to try this type of thing, tie it to a shared date. Anniversary of wedding, first date, first kiss. 

Your idea of trying to re-kindle the relationship is not wrong and shows you want to put an emphasis on your relationship. You fumbled the ball on execution by linking this one with her birthday. Retreat, circle the wagons and develop a plan for another day.


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## jd08

I read this thread too. Reminds me so much of my wife. I didnt respond because I was worried I would be projecting too much. 



samyeagar said:


> That thread jumped immediately to mind even before I was done reading the first post in this thread.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

tacoma said:


> The more I think about the I realize how wrong what she is doing is.
> 
> I would have went on the vaca alone, downloaded a book for the weekend and shut off my cell.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. I would have gone alone too.

Your wife is putting HER needs and your child's needs before the marriage needs. 

She is like many women I know--- can't leave their kids. Hell, I can pack in 5 minutes if my lovie wants to take me somewhere...oh wait, I have! And I have two kids.

Talk with your wife...or write it out. 

But yea, I would have gone alone.


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## jd08

She agreed to go and backed out the day before we were supposed to leave. And I fumbled the ball? 




MarriedTex said:


> It's OK to do something for the sake of the marriage. But trying to cover a hotel sex get away as "her" birthday present wreaks of covert contracts.
> 
> You've got big problems if you haven't spent time away and the first kid is almost four years old. Hindsight is 20/20. But the right time to deal with this issue is before you start expanding the family. You need to get the foundation of the relationship right before you start building the family larger. If youv'e devolved into an exclusively kid-focused couple with no time for your relationship, adding another baby is not going to help matters. I'm sure you recognize that now.
> 
> You've made this a losing battle by tying this to her birthday. Ostensibly, that is something for her. Think of the sunk money into the get away as tuition for your lesson on how to handle your relationship better. A person should get to do what they want on their birthday. Obviously, she is uncomfortable leaving kid because you haven't built up to this over the past four years.
> 
> If you're going to try this type of thing, tie it to a shared date. Anniversary of wedding, first date, first kiss.
> 
> Your idea of trying to re-kindle the relationship is not wrong and shows you want to put an emphasis on your relationship. You fumbled the ball on execution by linking this one with her birthday. Retreat, circle the wagons and develop a plan for another day.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound

jd08 said:


> It's for the marriage. We need time together especially before the 2nd is born. I suppose she doesnt feel that way.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away. Pick a different time other than her bday. You are right in wanting quality time together before the baby is born. I'm telling you about the bday thing because I made the same mistake myself. It would akin to her getting you a sewing machine for your bday. Please understand I meant no disrespect, I just see things differently. I hope things work out for you, you seem like a good guy.


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## jd08

I also take offense to your characterization of this as a hotel sex get away. My friend's mother has a condo at the beach which I had rented for the weekend. It was supposed to be time away from the kid at an enjoyable and relaxing location not cheap sex at a motel off the highway. 



MarriedTex said:


> It's OK to do something for the sake of the marriage. But trying to cover a hotel sex get away as "her" birthday present wreaks of covert contracts.
> 
> You've got big problems if you haven't spent time away and the first kid is almost four years old. Hindsight is 20/20. But the right time to deal with this issue is before you start expanding the family. You need to get the foundation of the relationship right before you start building the family larger. If youv'e devolved into an exclusively kid-focused couple with no time for your relationship, adding another baby is not going to help matters. I'm sure you recognize that now.
> 
> You've made this a losing battle by tying this to her birthday. Ostensibly, that is something for her. Think of the sunk money into the get away as tuition for your lesson on how to handle your relationship better. A person should get to do what they want on their birthday. Obviously, she is uncomfortable leaving kid because you haven't built up to this over the past four years.
> 
> If you're going to try this type of thing, tie it to a shared date. Anniversary of wedding, first date, first kiss.
> 
> Your idea of trying to re-kindle the relationship is not wrong and shows you want to put an emphasis on your relationship. You fumbled the ball on execution by linking this one with her birthday. Retreat, circle the wagons and develop a plan for another day.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08

Let me ask - if she really sees it as a sex get away how will picking a different time help the situation? Assuming that is what I'm after then it's still gonna be a sex getaway next weekend or the weekend after that, at least in her mind. Her birthday has nothing to do with it. 



Thound said:


> I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away. Pick a different time other than her bday. You are right in wanting quality time together before the baby is born. I'm telling you about the bday thing because I made the same mistake myself. It would akin to her getting you a sewing machine for your bday. Please understand I meant no disrespect, I just see things differently. I hope things work out for you, you seem like a good guy.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

MarriedTex said:


> It's OK to do something for the sake of the marriage. But trying to cover a hotel sex get away as "her" birthday present wreaks of covert contracts.


I don't think so at all.

Any weekend we get away it's known we're doing it to focus on each other and yeah that includes sex.

How many married adults get a hotel room for the weekend alone without sex on the mind?
Zero.

The point that she would assume it wasn't for sex and romance and who would find it "covert" or "manipulating" is the problem.

Now I don't know the OP's story but it would appear he's in a sexless marriage from some of the replies here.
That means he's got bigger problems than just this vaca.


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## Soifon

jd08 said:


> I also take offense to your characterization of this as a hotel sex get away. My friend's mother has a condo at the beach which I had rented for the weekend. It was supposed to be time away from the kid at an enjoyable and relaxing location not cheap sex at a motel off the highway.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so surprised at the reactions from people saying she sees this as him just wanting to have sex with her. OMG a husband wants to have sex with his wife!!! She should be appalled! How dare he! WTF? OP, you really need to sit her down and explain to her how serious you are viewing this. She has shown you a list of priorities and the two of you as a couple has fallen so far down it is detrimental to your family.

Also, I see this as being your wife in 20 years if she doesn't realize she needs to stop hovering over her children: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/71602-daughter-got-arrested-think-officer-went-far.html


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## that_girl

The whole sex argument irritates me.

He wanted to do something nice for him and her. A "babymoon", if you will.

Sex could or could not be part of the equation, but I'm sure he didn't think "oooh I'll get her away and we'll have sex." Do we know about their sexlife?

And whatever. He's her HUSBAND and she obviously didn't mind having sex with him before....she's 6 months pregnant.


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## Soifon

tacoma said:


> I don't think so at all.
> 
> Any weekend we get away it's known we're doing it focus on each other and yeah that includes sex.
> 
> How many married adults get a hotel room for the weekend alone without sex on the mind?
> Zero.
> 
> The point that she would assume it wasn't for sex and romance wife and who would find it "covert" or "manipulating" is the problem.
> 
> Now I don't know the OP's story but it would appear he's in a sexless marriage from some of the replies here.
> That means he's got bigger problems than just this vaca.



EXACTLY! It's her birthday! Gee why wouldn't a woman find it to be a great present that she gets to spend a weekend being the center of attention, feeling wanted, being romanced, having sex with the man they love etc. Basically getting to escape for one weekend and enjoy the man you love like you did when you first met him.


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## ubercoolpanda

If you know that your wife has only spent one night away from your child in the last 4 years, obviously a weekend trip away would not be ideal for her? I have a 2 year old and I hate being separated from her so I can understand where your wife is coming from. 
Has she given a reason why she doesn't want to go? It's weird how she was all for it and then randomly backed out the day before.


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## that_girl

I will never understand women who put their children before their marriage.

The child will be ok if you are away for a night or two. Holy crap.

Sometimes I think people hinder the development of their children for their own selfish wants. Can't be away from your kid? Dang. That's what grandparents are for. Kids have a blast, grandparents have fun, I get time for ME to be myself...and then I come home and resume mamaville.

To put your mate in the backseat because, as a mom, you can't be away for a NIGHT from your kid, is.....lame, imo.

You were once a couple with your partner. Try to remember that...

Ok, I'm done thread jackin  That crap just bugs me to no end.


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## Thound

jd08 said:


> Let me ask - if she really sees it as a sex get away how will picking a different time help the situation? Assuming that is what I'm after then it's still gonna be a sex getaway next weekend or the weekend after that, at least in her mind. Her birthday has nothing to do with it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm guessing that to her the bday is exclusively to be about her. I think your wife is a mom first wife 2nd or maybe even 3rd. Hell I rank below the house cat.


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## dallasapple

Regardless of how others are perfectly happy /o.k to leave their young children for an over nighter with their husband(and I was one of them my husband and I even had our parents keep them over night many times just even so we could stay home alone and have a "get away" at home ) any way my point is it doesn't matter how much we would LOVE the OP's gift for OUR b-day.

The fact is he knows his wife is not happy to do that.He said the one time she has she cried the whole time and kept calling to check on the child.That's already a known to him.That for whatever her reasons that is how she FEELS.Thats why I do find it kind of an "odd" thing to do ..to offer that as HER b-day present.I don't know why she agreed to it in the first place but its obvious she couldn't bring herself to do it when it came time.She is lying about the "don't have time to pack" I know that much.If she REALLY wanted to go she would throw her bad together and even get there late or whatever.

Anyway I think that is why she made the comment about it really being "for you "..How could it be for her when you know she hates being away from your little girl and hasn't but for one time in years?AND it sounds caused her emotional distress?And it sounds like something you have complained about in the past?

It would be like if I had a deep /morbid even fear of water.But my husband would love to live in the water if he could.Arranged for my b-day to take both of us on a scuba diving trip.And I knew it was something he REALLY wanted to do with me I might suck it up and even agree...I could see myself getting more and more nervous/fearful as the time approached and making up some BS excuse why I couldn't.And when he got pissed off me telling him what I really felt is that "it wasn't for me anyway".


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## dallasapple

> I will never understand women who put their children before their marriage.


I will also say this though.Just because some women AND men for that matter (I know couples who wont leave their kids overnight anywhere and men who have wives that don't fear it but he does) aren't comfortable with overnight especially out of town trips leaving young children behind does'nt automatically mean they put children before marriage.

You dont have to go on weekend getaways with out kids to make a marriage as much or more a priority as children.


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## tom67

Geez it's one weekend getaway. That's healthy for a marriage and grandma and grandpa get to spend a little time with the kid, God forbid.


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## samyeagar

jd...you need to fix this NOW! It will only get worse. If she is allowing her identity as a person to be more and more defined by the kids, you are losing your wife.


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## happyman64

JD

I thought your post was interesting and I understand your frustrations.

My wife and I have been married 20 years. We have 3 girls. Our oldest is 19.

Last year we dropped her off in Boston for her 1st year of college.

My wife and I got her settled in and I booked a nice hotel downtown. I took my wife to dinner, took her shopping and then we went back to the hotel.

I looked at my wife and asked if she could remember the last time we were alone together. She said no.

I said the last time we were alone was in Aruba when she was pregnant with our 1st. 

18 years ago.

She was shocked. 

I tried many times to get her to go away. She would never leave our kids.

I did know before marrying her that her Mother was the same way.

And I am a very patient person.

The point of my story is if you love your wife explain how you feel and why you want time with her. Do not let this go on unresolved.

And my wife to this day likes to take all our kids away. ANd I am ok with that......

Life is too short. 

Communication is key!

Good Luck

Hm64


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## dallasapple

OMG...I do not get how NOT wanting to be GONE overnight away from young children means you have "lost your identity in your children"?

It is possible to have your own intact identity but be very uncomfortable being away over night especially far away from young children.I mean really.Would you say she had lost her identity in her husband if she hated being away from him overnight?Or feared over his safety if he for instance had to go on a trip and cried when he left and called to make sure he was safe? This I'm sure is about fear /instinct even no matter how "irrational" others believe it to be.

A lot more would have to be going on with someone than that to say they have "lost their identity" in their children than this example.Maybe SHE has.But in general not being O.K or at peace leaving your young children behind for extended periods/overnight is not an indicator they have no identity but as a mother.


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## Mavash.

dallasapple said:


> I will also say this though.Just because some women AND men for that matter (I know couples who wont leave their kids overnight anywhere and men who have wives that don't fear it but he does) aren't comfortable with overnight especially out of town trips leaving young children behind does'nt automatically mean they put children before marriage.
> 
> You dont have to go on weekend getaways with out kids to make a marriage as much or more a priority as children.


Thank you. I'm a fabulous wife and I adore my husband. We go on dates, have plenty of alone time, and we are happy. We just don't do overnights yet as our youngest isn't ready to be away from me at night. I don't know how I will feel when they are older. At the moment I'd rather take them with us and get two rooms. He gets laid in a new place and I get to keep my babies with me. Win/win.


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## dallasapple

> I looked at my wife and asked if she could remember the last time we were alone together.


You mean you and your wife have never been alone /in each others presence without one of your children in the same room with you for 18 years?

O.K yes I'm being sarcastic.But you don't HAVE to leave town or be in a hotel room and for overnight to be "alone together".

my husband and I for sure have had LOTS of "alone time" together and yes some of that has been overnight but probably 95% of our "alone time" together has been IN our home while kids were at school and he was home for lunch ..or they went with their grandma to a movie for a few ours on a Sunday afternoon...heck..alone in our bedroom with the door locked while the kids ran around in the yard...all those hours "alone" "count" and they by far exceed any over nighters we have had .Yeah sure its nice to "get way" (leave town) and spend an over night in a different enviroment.Its a break from the "norm"..but some either cant that ofen because of money/work schedules etc..or in this case aren't comfortable leaving kids for a long period or overnight.

But by your standard of "alone" my husband and I have been doing a LOT of innapropriate things in front of our children and having a lot of adult conversations in front of them as well.And never had any "alone" dinners or alone anything.I guess I have a different definition of he and I being alone together.


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## dallasapple

Mavash. said:


> Thank you. I'm a fabulous wife and I adore my husband. We go on dates, have plenty of alone time, and we are happy. We just don't do overnights yet as our youngest isn't ready to be away from me at night. I don't know how I will feel when they are older. At the moment I'd rather take them with us and get two rooms. He gets laid in a new place and I get to keep my babies with me. Win/win.


LOL!! Yes we have taken our kids on our vacations unfortunately we haven't been able to go on a lot but last one we stayed in a 3 bedroom condo on the beach in Gulf Shores and my husband and got the "master suite" and we got "alone time " every night.(with mirrors on the ceiling too..)Not to mention they were older and we could permit them to leave the condo to go walk around on the beach and stuff by themselves and we would "catch up with them later "


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## Theseus

MarriedTex said:


> You've got big problems if you haven't spent time away and the first kid is almost four years old. Hindsight is 20/20. But the right time to deal with this issue is before you start expanding the family. You need to get the foundation of the relationship right before you start building the family larger.


I strongly disagree. You can't expect to get all your vacations out of the way before children come along. Children are not always planned, and life happens. And more importantly, a couple need to re-connect from time to time. They are not like superglue that bonds at just one time and then will remain stuck together for good. 




> You've made this a losing battle by tying this to her birthday. Ostensibly, that is something for her.


Not ostensibly, but truthfully, a weekend getaway (even if it includes - _sex!!_ ~shudders~) is for both people. For crying out loud, it's not like he was taking her hunting, fishing, or to a football game!



> You fumbled the ball on execution by linking this one with her birthday. Retreat, circle the wagons and develop a plan for another day.


Your advice about tying it to their anniversary instead makes sense, but I believe you are still looking at this too much from an unhealthy and unnecessarily combative "him vs. her" angle.


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## Theseus

Thound said:


> I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away. ... It would akin to her getting you a sewing machine for your bday.


Even if it was only a "sex getaway", *who cares??* They are married and they are both supposed to enjoy sex. Do you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia? Or have we gone back to the 1800s when sex was supposed to be for men's enjoyment only?


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## dallasapple

> Her birthday has nothing to do with it.


I don't know if she sees it as a "sex getaway" or even if she knew sex was going to be "assumed" or not .Unless ya'll only have sex when you go out of town I don't see it has anything to do with it either..I think the issue is you KNOW she is very uncomfortable leaving your daughter it causes her emotional distress its an ODD BIRTHDAY present to give HER.You were asking her to do something she HATES but you LONG FOR as HER birthday present is the point.I don't get how you didn't realize she might think it was really for you .

I think she should apologize to you for not just saying that upfront.Like she should have said when you asked..how is that a gift to me when you know I hate leaving her overnight?It would make more sense that would maybe be on your wish list as a gift FROM her on YOUR birthday.And you should do a face palm really for thinking she would love it.


----------



## Theseus

jd08,

The only advice I could give you was the argument I used with my own wife under a similar situation. 

I simply told her two things:

It's normal and healthy for a couple to have a day away together and their own time away from the kids. People hire babysitters for a reason.

It's abnormal and unhealthy for a couple to never have any time together away from the children.
When I pointed it out like that, she changed her perspective a bit. My wife is very conformist and hung up on wanting to do things the way "normal" people do, so framing it in those terms worked pretty well.

I don't recommend you go alone. Not only will you be fuming and miserable, but that will just feed into her twisting it into you buying the vacation for yourself. I would express my extreme displeasure (without yelling), show her documents showing the exact amount of money you just lost (and say "Happy Birthday"), and then I would go do something else entirely and get away from her.


----------



## dallasapple

If they are having sex on any regular basis this wouldn't be about SEX.Its about her not wanting to leave the little girl.

So it would be a present to HIM if she was willing to do that.I'm sure she would love the beach and the getaway ..the problem was her leaving behind the little girl.Which is what HE was looking forward to and what SHE was fretting and it was supposedly her b-day present.


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## dallasapple

> I strongly disagree. You can't expect to get all your vacations out of the way before children come along. Children are not always planned, and life happens. And more importantly, a couple need to re-connect from time to time. They are not like superglue that bonds at just one time and then will remain stuck together for good.


If vacations are the only way for couples to "re-connect" then there are a LOT of "disconected couples".The last and one of the only few vacations "alone" my husband I took was on our 18th anniversary almost 7 years ago for 2 days in Austin Texas.

But trust me we have "re-connected" since then including last night for several hours in a variety of ways with one son in the house on the computer and another one in and out.And part of the re-connect was in the den interacting and another part was later in the bedroom with the door shut and locked.


----------



## Theseus

dallasapple said:


> If vacations are the only way for couples to "re-connect" then there are a LOT of "disconected couples".


I never said vacations were the ONLY way to re-connect (anyway, the emphasis here is on having a night away, not necessarily a full-blown vacation). 

And yes, in fact there are a lot of "disconected couples" out there.


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## dallasapple

> They are married and they are both supposed to enjoy sex.


Which if you had to go on vacation to do there wouldn't even be any kids to "get away from " in the first place.

I think the point is even if for some reason she knew they couldn't even have sex she would not have wanted to go.


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## dallasapple

> anyway, the emphasis here is on having a night away


Its the same difference.You don't have to be completely at a different location and for over night away from your kids to keep connected.


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## dallasapple

> And yes, in fact there are a lot of "disconected couples" out there.


Of course but I highly doubt the "disconnect" could be summed up as they don't get rid of the kids for "overnight" on a regular basis.That is not a requirement to re-connect.

I actually know a couple a bit on the other extreme.The couple is NEVER separated but for his job...they live in a more rural area away from any relatives..they have 6 children the oldest when I met them was about 12 and the youngest was about 18 months.They NEVER not only took an "overnighter" together but they went everywhere with all 6 kids even the grocery.The two of them litterally oozed "connection".I mean they litterally gazed in each others eyes and hung all over each other.They were also too poor honestly to even entertain the idea of a "weekend getaway" away from home even if they wanted to "hire" baby sitters all the time especially one qualified to handle that many.They had an amazing love and connection including a spicy sex life based on her accounts to me they had the total hots for each other.To this day (I havent talked to her in a while) I would be surprised either if they have yet to be "alone over night" let alone on any regular basis.


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## EleGirl

Thound said:


> The one thing i would do is not do this for HER Bday when its kinda for you


How is a trip for a married couple only for the husband?


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## EleGirl

jd08,

It was not very nice of your wife to first agree to go and then back out right before leaving. 

While some think it was a bad bday gift, I disagree. But in the end what matters is what your wife thinks. It's her bday. And she is the one with the problem about leaving her child for a day or so.

Remeber that the win a war you have to pick your battles well.

My suggestion is that for the sake of your marriage and your sanity you take this slowly. You are lucky to have grandparents around who will help.

So start out with a few hours out without your child. Take your wife to dinner and do some nice bday things for her. Buy her a nice present. Show her that you care about how she feels about things even if it's not how you feel about it.


Then start the one day a week date night. The grandparents can watch your child over night while you and your wife have date night. 

Over time you can work to increase the number of hours your wife is away from your child. When the new baby comes there will a slow down as she will not want to be away from that baby either. But usually moms are more relaxed with the second child.

Apparenlty you tried to do this when she was not ready. So take baby steps.


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## jd08

Tough audience here. I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband. I'll take plan B instead which is staying home and doing nothing. Maybe go out to eat tomorrow at some restaurant we have been to 100 times before. Then come home and go to bed. 



dallasapple said:


> I don't know if she sees it as a "sex getaway" or even if she knew sex was going to be "assumed" or not .Unless ya'll only have sex when you go out of town I don't see it has anything to do with it either..I think the issue is you KNOW she is very uncomfortable leaving your daughter it causes her emotional distress its an ODD BIRTHDAY present to give HER.You were asking her to do something she HATES but you LONG FOR as HER birthday present is the point.I don't get how you didn't realize she might think it was really for you .
> 
> I think she should apologize to you for not just saying that upfront.Like she should have said when you asked..how is that a gift to me when you know I hate leaving her overnight?It would make more sense that would maybe be on your wish list as a gift FROM her on YOUR birthday.And you should do a face palm really for thinking she would love it.


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## tom67

jd08 said:


> Tough audience here. I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband. I'll take plan B instead which is staying home and doing nothing. Maybe go out to eat tomorrow at some restaurant we have been to 100 times before. Then come home and go to bed.


I wonder if this is one of those "sh!ttests". I mean WTH. I don't know leave the bill with how much you paid and go out and do your own thing, sorry.


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## Thound

Theseus said:


> Even if it was only a "sex getaway", *who cares??* They are married and they are both supposed to enjoy sex. Do you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia? Or have we gone back to the 1800s when sex was supposed to be for men's enjoyment only?


You may want to read some of my others posts. My wife have an emotional disconnect and I'm not a priority to her. Yes in a perfect world she would go with me for a weekend and we would @$&? Each others brains out, but it ain't happening here and his wife may feel the same way.


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## Wiserforit

jd08 said:


> I'll take plan B instead which is staying home and doing nothing. Maybe go out to eat tomorrow at some restaurant we have been to 100 times before. Then come home and go to bed.


As long as there is no sex I think your critics here will be happy. It was quite shocking to hear of something so perverted as sex between husband and wife, especially in a romantic setting at a beach getaway.

Maybe you shouild get some professional help for that disgusting concept.


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## SadSamIAm

This is a tough time for many mothers. It took a ton of convincing to get my wife to leave when we had our first trip away with our daughter.

We decided to go to Vegas for 4 days. She was all excited to get away. So I booked the trip (with 2 other couples). As the day approach, she was getting beotchier and beotchier. I am sure that if there wasn't other couples involved and we had not paid for the trip, she would have pulled the plug.

I think she was up tight until we landed in Vegas. I could tell a huge weight was lifted off her shoulders, not having to worry about anyone but herself.

We had a great day and had a few drinks at the end of the night in one of the other couples rooms. We were walking back down the hall in the hotel to our room. I was in front of her when I heard a crash behind me. I looked back and she was laying on the floor laughing. She said she tried to do a cart wheel and kicked the wall.

And yes, we had a bunch of sex that weekend. Without our annual get-a-aways I am not sure we would have survived.

My advice to OP:

1) Plan a short trip for your first overnight away
2) Don't do it when she is pregnant ... too many hormones going crazy
3) Don't do it for her birthday or her Christmas present, etc. It is for both of you. Maybe an Anniversary.

It is a tough time. Might be a year or two from now before you will actually get away for a trip. You might have to use your imagination to create a 'get-a-way' right in your house.


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## A Bit Much

jd08 I feel for you. I would have loved something as thoughtful as a weekend away for my birthday. My husband is like this and I totally appreciate how he's so thoughtful. I have 2 kids who are both grown now, but I do recall taking a few trips without them when they were younger and let me tell you, I was a better mom for it. All I needed to know was they were cared for (thanks Mom!) and I was able to really relax and enjoy myself.

Try not to be too angry with your wife for changing her mind. I hope as the kids get older, she'll loosen up a bit and take these opportunities as a nice relaxing break for you both. And for what it's worth, sex IMO is for both of you. I wouldn't see a weekend away as a ploy to just satisfy your needs. Hell, I need it and want it too!


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## dallasapple

> While some think it was a bad bday gift, I disagree.


I think it was a bad birthday gift for HER.Its not a bad birthday gift for others.In fact I would love that as a birthday gift.I would love it any old time as a gift.


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## dallasapple

> I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband.


I think you are missing the part that its not about thinking she might enjoy it but you had already had the knowledge that she would not be happy about leaving your little girl.And on her B-DAY.

Yes face palm because you are surprised she backed out and that she referred to it was really for you is directly related to you calling it HER B-Day present.

I would NOT be saying "face palm" had you asked her to go not earmarked as any kind of GIFT FOR HER.If just on some ODD weekend in the future you had picked out and said I WANT for US to go away together for 2 days for a beach trip in a nice condo.I realize you are nervous about leaving daughter but if you could step out on a limb out of your comfort zone for ME I'm hoping that we both will end up enjoying ourselves .I WANT THIS.And I'm hoping you might find out you do too.


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## ScarletBegonias

dallasapple said:


> I think it was a bad birthday gift for HER.Its not a bad birthday gift for others.In fact I would love that as a birthday gift.I would love it any old time as a gift.


:iagree:

I think it's sweet and a loving gesture.Of course I never did understand the ladies who can't be apart from their children for a night or two in order to spend time with the person who will be there always..even after the kids have grown up and left.
I can't knock them for it,I just don't understand it. 

I love my grownup time to bond with my partner and yes,shockingly,to have sex with him.

I know,the horror.


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## TCSRedhead

Sometimes it's hard to separate being a mom from being a wife. I would approach this carefully as she is pregnant and likely feeling a bit worried about the upcoming addition.

Explain that you love her and feel it's important to carve out time to spend together, along as a couple to keep your marriage strong. Talk about what that means daily/weekly/monthly/yearly and be specfic. For example, you want to have at least 2 nights a month for date night out without kids. You want at least 1 week a year vacation without kids, whatever that looks like.

Also, find out from her how you can help her work towards feeling comfortable leaving the kids behind. Are there things that you can do to make that easier?


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## southern wife

A Bit Much said:


> jd08 I feel for you. I would have loved something as thoughtful as a weekend away for my birthday. My husband is like this and I totally appreciate how he's so thoughtful. I have 2 kids who are both grown now, but I do recall taking a few trips without them when they were younger and let me tell you, I was a better mom for it. All I needed to know was they were cared for (thanks Mom!) and I was able to really relax and enjoy myself.
> 
> Try not to be too angry with your wife for changing her mind. I hope as the kids get older, she'll loosen up a bit and take these opportunities as a nice relaxing break for you both. And for what it's worth, sex IMO is for both of you. I wouldn't see a weekend away as a ploy to just satisfy your needs. Hell, I need it and want it too!


:iagree:


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## Soifon

dallasapple said:


> I think it was a bad birthday gift for HER.Its not a bad birthday gift for others.In fact I would love that as a birthday gift.I would love it any old time as a gift.


It's not about the gift, it's not about sex, it's not about connecting only on a vacation. It is about the underlying statement of her priorities. She is pretty clearly stating that spending time alone (more than a few hours or at night when kids are sleeping) with her husband isn't that important to her.

If my SO gets me a b-day gift that I know he put thought into and was excited to give me, even if I HATE it. I care enough about him to go with the flow, accept it and see it as a gift from someone who loves me and therefore love the gift. If someone cares enough about me to want to celebrate my birthday, aka my existence in this world, I appreciate that, not what they are giving ME.


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## jd08

Selfishness gets me again. 



dallasapple said:


> I think you are missing the part that its not about thinking she might enjoy it but you had already had the knowledge that she would not be happy about leaving your little girl.And on her B-DAY.
> 
> Yes face palm because you are surprised she backed out and that she referred to it was really for you is directly related to you calling it HER B-Day present.
> 
> I would NOT be saying "face palm" had you asked her to go not earmarked as any kind of GIFT FOR HER.If just on some ODD weekend in the future you had picked out and said I WANT for US to go away together for 2 days for a beach trip in a nice condo.I realize you are nervous about leaving daughter but if you could step out on a limb out of your comfort zone for ME I'm hoping that we both will end up enjoying ourselves .I WANT THIS.And I'm hoping you might find out you do too.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

jd08 said:


> Tough audience here. I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband. I'll take plan B instead which is staying home and doing nothing. Maybe go out to eat tomorrow at some restaurant we have been to 100 times before. Then come home and go to bed.


Why does it have to be the same restaurant you have been to 100 times? Is it the only one in town?


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## EleGirl

Soifon said:


> If my SO gets me a b-day gift that I know he put thought into and was excited to give me, even if I HATE it. I care enough about him to go with the flow, accept it and see it as a gift from someone who loves me and therefore love the gift. If someone cares enough about me to want to celebrate my birthday, aka my existence in this world, I appreciate that, not what they are giving ME.


This :iagree:

I am often very miffed by people's attitudes when it comes to their birthdays. Personally I think our society has made them far too important. My parents had 8 children. Growing up we seldom did anything for birthdays. Getting a gift was rare. I'm glad for it was that way. I see people throwing all kinds of fits if they do not get the birthday they dreamed of every year.

I'm with you.. if someone takes the time to think of me and give me a gift that they put thought and time into I'm thrilled. I can buy just about anything I want for myself. Someone spending money is not what is important... it's that they take their time and give it their attention. That's the most precious thing of all.


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## Dr. Rockstar

Thound said:


> I'm guessing that to her the bday is exclusively to be about her. I think your wife is a mom first wife 2nd or maybe even 3rd. Hell I rank below the house cat.


So your saying there's a wife out there who wouldn't want sex on her birthday?


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## Deejo

Not kidding, at this point you should do nothing. 

I wouldn't lift a finger or do a bloody thing.

Maybe a verbal happy birthday. That's it.

If you take her out, give her a card gift and cake, you are effectively rewarding the behavior from her that clearly says, 'you don't matter.'


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## samyeagar

My ex-wife always felt slighted on her birthday because it came the day after christmas, so she decided to go overboard with the kids' birthdays...over drawing the bank account, maxing out credit cards and haviong to pay for the parties with money the kids got in their birthday cards...

I suppose rather than planning a romantic overnight get away, he could have stopped by the gas station and gotten her a windshield wiper blade and frozen burritos...


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## Tall Average Guy

EleGirl said:


> This :iagree:
> 
> I am often very miffed by people's attitudes when it comes to their birthdays. Personally I think our society has made them far too important. My parents had 8 children. Growing up we seldom did anything for birthdays. Getting a gift was rare. I'm glad for it was that way. I see people throwing all kinds of fits if they do not get the birthday they dreamed of every year.


:iagree:

Thank you. If any one deserves a gift on my birthday, it is my mother. She did the work, I just showed up. Still not sure why I deserve anything for that.


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## MarriedTex

jd08 said:


> Tough audience here. I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband. I'll take plan B instead which is staying home and doing nothing. Maybe go out to eat tomorrow at some restaurant we have been to 100 times before. Then come home and go to bed.


So, let me see, the trip is an antidote to the boredom of your everyday life. Unfortunately, it happens to be the life that your wife seems to embrace and is afraid to leave.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking the leadership role in helping you both identify new vistas for you and your relationship. I sense, however, that she is less than willing to explore these new opportunities. You cloaked this as a gift "for her" when it was probably something that you wanted much more than she did. (If this wasn't important to you, you wouldn't be reacting so vicerally to me & DallasApple)

In short, we're not getting the full story here. You cornered her into something she really wouldn't be excited about in normal times, using the guise of "her birthday." She has pushed back and cancelled the trip. Given track record, I can see how this is a "now or never" type of deal for you. Next kid comes along and it's another four years of "can't leave the kids." That would drive me crazy.

I suspect that you're feeling like the second fiddle. Not enough alone time with the person you love. My heart breaks on that. My hunch is that the weekend trip issue is merely a symptom of a much larger issue.

If I was in error before in saying that this weekend was for "hotel sex," my apologies. I was trying to read between the lines there. But clearly there is something lacking in your relationship that you were hoping to re-kindle with this weekend. Tell us what that is and the board will help you think through this in a broader way than just fixating on whether a trip should be taken or not this weekend.


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## dallasapple

EleGirl said:


> This :iagree:
> 
> I am often very miffed by people's attitudes when it comes to their birthdays. Personally I think our society has made them far too important. My parents had 8 children. Growing up we seldom did anything for birthdays. Getting a gift was rare. I'm glad for it was that way. I see people throwing all kinds of fits if they do not get the birthday they dreamed of every year.
> 
> I'm with you.. if someone takes the time to think of me and give me a gift that they put thought and time into I'm thrilled. I can buy just about anything I want for myself. Someone spending money is not what is important... it's that they take their time and give it their attention. That's the most precious thing of all.



In this case someone else was making a huge deal out of someone elses b-day by trying to give the person something they didn't want in fact something that was scary to them.

I also dont like when people act like the world has to stop spinning on their birthday..My family though makes HUGE deals of b-days..I've always been "spoiled".But as I have gotten older?Really I might like a few close friends and family to acknowledge with a "happy birthday" but outside my husband not saying happy birthday I really could care less myself anymore I don't even really care to go out to dinner and I can buy what I want anytime..Now you can give me some money if you want.

But for that matter you can give me some money on not my birthday.

Oh I do like to blow out some candles on a cake that I wouldn't normally eat.

Oh and birthdays are an important "critcal fact" about you though.It tells your age.


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## samyeagar

dallasapple said:


> In this case someone else was making a huge deal out of someone elses b-day by trying to give the person something they didn't want in fact something that was scary to them.
> 
> I also dont like when people act like the world has to stop spinning on their birthday..My family though makes HUGE deals of b-days..I've always been "spoiled".But as I have gotten older?Really I might like a few close friends and family to acknowledge with a "happy birthday" but outside my husband not saying happy birthday I really could care less myself anymore I don't even really care to go out to dinner and I can buy what I want anytime..Now you can give me some money if you want.
> 
> But for that matter you can give me some money on not my birthday.
> 
> Oh I do like to blow out some candles on a cake that I wouldn't normally eat.
> 
> *Oh and birthdays are an important "critcal fact" about you though.It tells your age*.


So does your mouth if asked how old you are  I suppose it's fun to celebrate not dying...


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## dallasapple

> So does your mouth if asked how old you are I suppose it's fun to celebrate not dying...


And or you aren't dead yet. (for some).


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## lifeistooshort

It seems to me that there are actually two separate issues here. One is that they don't have as much couple time as the OP wants and that MUST be dealt with and a compromise reached. The other is that, unless I missed something, this is her birthday and he didn't actually ask her if this was something she wanted and would enjoy. She agreed to go but that is not the same thing, and it sounds like the well intentioned OP just assumed she'd want this. Her birthday is not the place to visit marital issues because the fact that it's her birthday diverts attention from the other issue. Her birthday is supposed to be about what she wants; there are 364 other days a year to address marital issues. OP, ask her what she wants to do for her birthday and the next day sit her down and address the couple time. If she's had a nice birthday she might be in a better place to hear you anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08

We discussed this starting in February and she assured me several times she wanted to go. I'm not insensitive to her feelings and desires as many have assumed on here. 




lifeistooshort said:


> It seems to me that there are actually two separate issues here. One is that they don't have as much couple time as the OP wants and that MUST be dealt with and a compromise reached. The other is that, unless I missed something, this is her birthday and he didn't actually ask her if this was something she wanted and would enjoy. She agreed to go but that is not the same thing, and it sounds like the well intentioned OP just assumed she'd want this. Her birthday is not the place to visit marital issues because the fact that it's her birthday diverts attention from the other issue. Her birthday is supposed to be about what she wants; there are 364 other days a year to address marital issues. OP, ask her what she wants to do for her birthday and the next day sit her down and address the couple time. If she's had a nice birthday she might be in a better place to hear you anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple

> We discussed this starting in February and she assured me several times she wanted to go. I'm not insensitive to her feelings and desires as many have assumed on here.


Maybe its one of those things that she wants to but she doesn't want to?Or since it was far away off she didn't feel the "anxiety" over it until the time grew near then she couldn't do it? Like she "bit off more than she could chew" as far as her own limitations?


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## Lyris

I haven't left my kids overnight yet, they are six and three. Sometimes we leave them during the day with my parents, but we haven't really left them at night at all yet.

There are lots of reasons for that, and sometimes I wish we could go away, but we work hard to stay connected in other ways. We have two date nights at home every week, and have sex between 3 and 5 times a week. I'd say the biggest thing we miss us uninterrupted talking time, but we are trying to address that at the moment by having a bath together most evenings after the kids are asleep. 

OP, it sounds like your wife doesn't want to leave your daughter. She tried it before and found it upsetting. She shouldn't have agreed to go, sorry your present to her didn't work out.


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## A Bit Much

jd08 said:


> We discussed this starting in February and she assured me several times she wanted to go. I'm not insensitive to her feelings and desires as many have assumed on here.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FWIW, I think it's mean. She led you on and that's just not right. I'm sure you would have appreciated her being upfront with you from the beginning.


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## Thound

Dr. Rockstar said:


> So your saying there's a wife out there who wouldn't want sex on her birthday?


Well I do know of one for sure!


----------



## Dr. Rockstar

dallasapple said:


> The fact is he knows his wife is not happy to do that.He said the one time she has she cried the whole time and kept calling to check on the child.That's already a known to him.That for whatever her reasons that is how she FEELS.Thats why I do find it kind of an "odd" thing to do ..to offer that as HER b-day present.I don't know why she agreed to it in the first place but its obvious she couldn't bring herself to do it when it came time.She is lying about the "don't have time to pack" I know that much.If she REALLY wanted to go she would throw her bad together and even get there late or whatever.


I'd be more inclined to believe this if she hadn't already agreed to go.


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## that_girl

The world better stop on my birthday and y'all better get me something. 

Srsly.

No joke.


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## Tall Average Guy

that_girl said:


> The world better stop on my birthday and y'all better get me something.
> 
> Srsly.
> 
> No joke.


I have already sent it in the mail. You should be getting it any day now. Just keep waiting.


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## TCSRedhead

If I were the OP, my feelings would really be hurt. He made an effort to do something sweet. She didn't indicate upon receipt that it was undesired and now it's an issue.

This is why it's important to be honest about gifts and expectations with our husbands. 

FWIW, our first Christmas together, my hubby bought me a huge George Foreman grill as one of my gifts. Yup. To cook for the family. I knew his heart was in the right place but I did explain that in the future, I wanted gifts that were for me, my use only unless it was something I specifically asked for.


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## SadSamIAm

Lyris said:


> I haven't left my kids overnight yet, they are six and three. Sometimes we leave them during the day with my parents, but we haven't really left them at night at all yet.
> 
> There are lots of reasons for that, and sometimes I wish we could go away, but we work hard to stay connected in other ways. We have two date nights at home every week, and have sex between 3 and 5 times a week. I'd say the biggest thing we miss us uninterrupted talking time, but we are trying to address that at the moment by having a bath together most evenings after the kids are asleep.
> 
> OP, it sounds like your wife doesn't want to leave your daughter. She tried it before and found it upsetting. She shouldn't have agreed to go, sorry your present to her didn't work out.


You really should talk to your parents about watching them for a couple of nights so you can get away with your husband.

Dates nights and having sex as often as you do is great. Really Great!!!! But you really don't get to relax. You don't get to wake up in the morning and feel like you can do whatever the hell you want. Nobody needs you for anything. For my wife, this was the best feeling. Like a huge weight was off her shoulders. It will take a day or to to feel it, but it is well worth it.

I truly believe your kids will benefit from you being away bonding with grandparents and you will come back recharged and a better parent.


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## dallasapple

> Dates nights and having sex as often as you do is great. Really Great!!!! But you really don't get to relax.


I do.


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## Openminded

OP, I remember some of your other threads. So there were (and perhaps still are) issues to work out with her.

I think when you suggested the vacation, she agreed because it wasn't immediate. Now it is immediate and she doesn't want to leave your child. 

Some women (I don't know the percentage) shift their focus from their husband to their child/children. You definitely need to get her used to being away from your child --- a little at a time --- because soon there will be another child for her to focus on. 

And that could mean even less time for you than you have indicated in your other threads is the case.


----------



## Created2Write

Dr. Rockstar said:


> Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY?
> 
> Lets say you're right. Lets say that your right. Lets say that the OP is leaving out an important piece of information, that he is expecting sex for an overnight trip? Lets also say that the OP also neglected to say that his wife never wanted to go to begin with and only agreed to the trip because she felt coerced.
> 
> None of that addresses the underlying issue, that she hasn't spent a night away from her child in four years. That's not typical behavior. It's not respectful to her husband. It's not fair to the grandparents either because it implies the grandparents aren't trustworthy. It not only tells the husband that he's not a priority, it also tells him that feeding her insecurities mean more to her than being with him.
> 
> It's not cool to be so flip about this. The wife is being immature, selfish and possessive. She needs to talk to someone--maybe the husband, maybe a close friend or an objective third party. On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend talking to the parents-in-law, because the wife's behavior was probably shaped by something her parents did when she was younger.


Yes. Yes 100%.


----------



## Created2Write

Besides, who cares if it's meant for sex?! I'm on page three, and can't figure out why a man planning a trip with his wife for sex is suddenly a bad thing? Marriage involves sex, people! And last I checked, women want sex too! Sheesh! If my husband said, "Babe, for your birthday I'm gonna take you to a hotel for a night, and I'm only doing that so you can relax enough to have sex", my reaction would be: "You'd better make that reservation for two nights!"


----------



## tom67

Created2Write said:


> Besides, who cares if it's meant for sex?! I'm on page three, and can't figure out why a man planning a trip with his wife for sex is suddenly a bad thing? Marriage involves sex, people! And last I checked, women want sex too! Sheesh! If my husband said, "Babe, for your birthday I'm gonna take you to a hotel for a night, and I'm only doing that so you can relax enough to have sex", my reaction would be: "You'd better make that reservation for two nights!"


Yea and calling it off last minute I'd go to a sports bar sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

tom67 said:


> Yea and calling it off last minute I'd go to a sports bar sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Totally agree. If my husband went to the effort of planning a romantic night/weekend for my birthday, I'd be jumping through hoops to make triple sure we could go...whether it was what I wanted for my birthday or not.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Created2Write said:


> Besides, who cares if it's meant for sex?! I'm on page three, and can't figure out why a man planning a trip with his wife for sex is suddenly a bad thing? Marriage involves sex, people! And last I checked, women want sex too! Sheesh! If my husband said, "Babe, for your birthday I'm gonna take you to a hotel for a night, and I'm only doing that so you can relax enough to have sex", my reaction would be: "You'd better make that reservation for two nights!"


And then I'd be headed out to buy all sorts of lingerie!!! 

That said, I can understand if she didn't feel ok with it but I think that's where it would have been fair for her to say that to him.

OP - do you think that she was afraid you'd be upset if she just told you up front that she didn't want to go?


----------



## tacoma

dallasapple said:


> OMG...I do not get how NOT wanting to be GONE overnight away from young children means you have "lost your identity in your children"?


It's obsessive and unhealthy for everyone especially the children.


----------



## Created2Write

TCSRedhead said:


> And then I'd be headed out to buy all sorts of lingerie!!!
> 
> That said, I can understand if she didn't feel ok with it but I think that's where it would have been fair for her to say that to him.
> 
> OP - do you think that she was afraid you'd be upset if she just told you up front that she didn't want to go?


Booyah! Frederick's of Hollywood, here I come!

Actually, I can't understand why she wouldn't be okay with it. They've only been out for a night alone ONCE in four years, he told her about this well in advance, they discussed it more than once, his parents were watching the kids...

There is no issue here, except with _her_. He did everything right. There wasn't anything else he could have done. She had every opportunity to tell him, "I don't want to go", and she CHOSE to save it until the last minute. I would bet she waited until the last minute on purpose. I mean, she hadn't even packed! The woman _intentionally_ ruined her husbands romantic plans. 

MESSED UP. Cruel. 

Besides, it's not healthy for kids to _never_ be without their parents for a day or two. I had a friend like that once, and as a teenager she cried whenever her parents dropped her off at my house. Bad news.


----------



## jd08

Tomorrow's plans (tentative)

Fundraising breakfast with family 

Movie with wife

Shopping with wife 

Home

Tonight she asked me what I WANTED to do tomorrow. I told her it was HER birthday and got a blank stare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

OP: I wish I had advice for you. I definitely don't think you should do more than a card for her birthday. Pulling crap like this is unacceptable, and she shouldn't be rewarded for it. Birthday or no birthday. If there aren't any consequences now, it will likely happen again. It's your marriage, so you know your wife better than we do, but I strongly suggest for you to not go to a movie or shopping. Let her go to the movies alone. You shouldn't have to cater to her if she's not going to make you a priority or appreciate your very generous, thoughtful efforts.


----------



## tacoma

Created2Write said:


> OP: I wish I had advice for you. I definitely don't think you should do more than a card for her birthday. Pulling crap like this is unacceptable, and she shouldn't be rewarded for it. Birthday or no birthday.


I agree with this but I wouldn't even be there to ask what I wanted to do for HER birthday.

I'd be kicked back at the condo about halfway through a good book.


----------



## Created2Write

tacoma said:


> I agree with this but I wouldn't even be there to ask what I wanted to do for HER birthday.
> 
> I'd be kicked back at the condo about halfway through a good book.


You know, I'm usually not one for vengeful things like this, but I seriously think she waited until the last minute on purpose. To be spiteful. She had more than enough time to be honest about not wanting to go, so this time, I absolutely have to agree with this. I'd pack up my stuff, leave my phone at home and go enjoy some "me" time. It's her birthday. If she won't appreciate his efforts or make him a priority, why should he go out of his way to please her? She can entertain herself on her birthday.


----------



## jd08

There's been some good ones I know. She has been very disappointing for several months now. 




Openminded said:


> OP, I remember some of your other threads. So there were (and perhaps still are) issues to work out with her.
> 
> I think when you suggested the vacation, she agreed because it wasn't immediate. Now it is immediate and she doesn't want to leave your child.
> 
> Some women (I don't know the percentage) shift their focus from their husband to their child/children. You definitely need to get her used to being away from your child --- a little at a time --- because soon there will be another child for her to focus on.
> 
> And that could mean even less time for you than you have indicated in your other threads is the case.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Grayson

jd08 said:


> Tomorrow's plans (tentative)
> 
> Fundraising breakfast with family
> 
> Movie with wife
> 
> Shopping with wife
> 
> Home
> 
> Tonight she asked me what I WANTED to do tomorrow. I told her it was HER birthday and got a blank stare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




If you've not cancelled the trip yet, tell her what YOU want to do tomorrow is to take advantage of the vacation spot on your own so the money doesn't go to waste.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jd08

Damn I wish i had done this now. 

As usual, she involved her mother in our dispute today and mentioned that I threatened earlier to go without her. Her mother said "good let him go" and to come over and stay at her house with our daughter. With friends like that who needs enemies??



tacoma said:


> I agree with this but I wouldn't even be there to ask what I wanted to do for HER birthday.
> 
> I'd be kicked back at the condo about halfway through a good book.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

Grayson said:


> If you've not cancelled the trip yet, tell her what YOU want to do tomorrow is to take advantage of the vacation spot on your own so the money doesn't go to waste.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS. 

jd, she needs to see how wrong she is. Just going along with her birthday plans is NOT going to help anything. The fact that she's asking what you want to do is proof that she's feeling guilty. By doing what SHE wants you're confirming that she was right in her choice to cancel last minute. This is your chance to stand up for your feelings and needs. 

If she's going to make the kid more important than you, fine. She can be with your daughter on her birthday. But you won't be there. It was ONE NIGHT. If she can't put you first for more than one night _in four flipping years_, she can spend her birthday alone with her daughter.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> Damn I wish i had done this now.
> 
> As usual, she involved her mother in our dispute today and mentioned that I threatened earlier to go without her. Her mother said "good let him go" and to come over and stay at her house with our daughter. With friends like that who needs enemies??
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd still go. She canceled on you last minute, why should she expect to be treated differently? And screw what her mother says. If, on her birthday, you're not there when she wakes up in the morning? What her mom says wont mean sh!t.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jd08 said:


> I also take offense to your characterization of this as a hotel sex get away. My friend's mother has a condo at the beach which I had rented for the weekend. It was supposed to be time away from the kid at an enjoyable and relaxing location not cheap sex at a motel off the highway.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I never said Cheap hotel sex... I just said YOUR intention was to isolate her for sex on HER birthday.


Let me remind you SEX is not top of most women's birthday wants.
In fact many would prefer a nice sound sleep.

Was it really about her or you?

Overnight hotel alone = sex expectation no matter how nice or slummy

Seems to me you. Although you wife should have just said no originally.

Sucks but it IS the truth.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> I never said Cheap hotel sex... I just said YOUR intention was to isolate her for sex on HER birthday.
> 
> 
> Let me remind you SEX is not top of most women's birthday wants.
> 
> Was it really about her or you?
> 
> Overnight hotel alone = sex expectation no matter how nice or slummy
> 
> Seems to me you. Although you wife should have just said no originally.
> 
> Sucks but it IS the truth.


Bull. Absolutely bull. I expect sex on my birthday. My husband expects it on his. Come to think of it, there isn't a single moment where we both don't _expect_ sex. Since, ya know, we're married and all. Sex kind of comes with the territory. 

Since when did sex become a selfish thing?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Created2Write said:


> Besides, who cares if it's meant for sex?! I'm on page three, and can't figure out why a man planning a trip with his wife for sex is suddenly a bad thing? Marriage involves sex, people! And last I checked, women want sex too! Sheesh! If my husband said, "Babe, for your birthday I'm gonna take you to a hotel for a night, and I'm only doing that so you can relax enough to have sex", my reaction would be: "You'd better make that reservation for two nights!"


That's you not most women.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Created2Write said:


> Bull. Absolutely bull. I expect sex on my birthday. My husband expects it on his. Come to think of it, there isn't a single moment where we both don't _expect_ sex. Since, ya know, we're married and all. Sex kind of comes with the territory.
> 
> Since when did sex become a selfish thing?


Thats you not most women.

The truth.

We''ll check back in a few years when your libido drops and see if this statement holds true.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl: "When your libido drops." "That's you not most women".

I'm like that too then....MOST women don't want to go for a night away and have sex? I don't think that's true at all.

Holy crap. If the wife doesn't want sex, being pregnant and all..., then she should just say it and not make him feel bad for wanting a night away with his wife.

The night doesn't have to be about sex, does it? Can't it be about hanging out and sleeping in?

Seems to me like an intimacy problem than a night away problem.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thats you not most women.
> 
> The truth.
> 
> We''ll check back in a few years when your libido drops and see if this statement holds true.


Fact: women _can_ control their libido to an extent. Having satisfying sex more frequently can naturally increase libido. 

Besides, who says my libido _has_ to drop? There are MANY(and by many, I mean dozens) of women on this forum who have higher sex drives and actively pursue sex with their husbands. And those women, usually, are the ones who actually give a sh!t about their husbands and make sex a priority no matter what. 

I'm one of those women. And I _expect_ to have sex with my husband consistently until my vagina has stopped working. 

And I strongly despise the falsehood that "most" women don't want sex. It's opinions like yours that make those women who DO desire sex feel like their abnormal.


----------



## Wiserforit

jd08 said:


> Tonight she asked me what I WANTED to do tomorrow. I told her it was HER birthday and got a blank stare.


I'd say hilarious, except that this is a statement of war, not a joke.

The standard covert aggressive game is to tell the husband you want him to choose the restaurant to eat, anywhere he wants. Husband names a restaurant. Wife says "oh, anywhere but there, name a different place..." Husband names a second place. Wife says "oh, anywhere but there, name a different place..." Husband says the wife should just pick a place. Wife says "No, this is for you. You decide."

I think I would be at the beach house with an escort. The wife can have the evening free of her husband. There's probably still time to catch someone on Craigslist.


----------



## EleGirl

dallasapple said:


> In this case someone else was making a huge deal out of someone elses b-day by trying to give the person something they didn't want in fact something that was scary to them.
> 
> I also dont like when people act like the world has to stop spinning on their birthday..My family though makes HUGE deals of b-days..I've always been "spoiled".But as I have gotten older?Really I might like a few close friends and family to acknowledge with a "happy birthday" but outside my husband not saying happy birthday I really could care less myself anymore I don't even really care to go out to dinner and I can buy what I want anytime..Now you can give me some money if you want.
> 
> But for that matter you can give me some money on not my birthday.
> 
> Oh I do like to blow out some candles on a cake that I wouldn't normally eat.
> 
> Oh and birthdays are an important "critcal fact" about you though.It tells your age.


Her husband tried to do something nice. He planned and paid for a weekend vacation. He told her about it and she agreed to go. HE DID NOT SURPRISE HER, SHE AGREED. Then she pulls out the day before going. She basically led him on. That's not very nice of her.

Why did she agree to something if she felt so strongly against it?


----------



## EleGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> I never said Cheap hotel sex... I just said YOUR intention was to isolate her for sex on HER birthday.
> 
> 
> Let me remind you SEX is not top of most women's birthday wants.
> In fact many would prefer a nice sound sleep.
> 
> Was it really about her or you?
> 
> Overnight hotel alone = sex expectation no matter how nice or slummy
> 
> Seems to me you. Although you wife should have just said no originally.
> 
> Sucks but it IS the truth.


Why are you making it sound like he was trying to trap her into something disgusting. Seems to me that sex is something that married people do.. generally want to do.


----------



## EleGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thats you not most women.
> 
> The truth.
> 
> We''ll check back in a few years when your libido drops and see if this statement holds true.


I'm 63. Been pregnant twice. My libido has never dropped. I've always been at least as HD as my husband or higher. A lot of women do not experience libido drop. 

Shoot, some women even love their husband and want to have sex with them. 

I suppose this would shock you though.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

EleGirl said:


> I'm 63. Been pregnant twice. My libido has never dropped. I've always been at least as HD as my husband or higher. A lot of women do not experience libido drop.
> 
> Shoot, some women even love their husband and want to have sex with them.
> 
> I suppose this would shock you though.


Some women not most women.

I'm just telling it like it is.

Just because a wife won't have sex or will have sex is absolutely no indicator of overall love.... that is BS

Women typically don't associate sex with love. Thats a mans view.

Once in a while you get the perfect storm

A woman in love and a woman who loves sex


----------



## that_girl

But if she agreed, then she is passive aggressive. She said yes to appease him. Then when it got close, she pulled the rug out. Not nice, not fair.

If she didn't like the idea, she should have said so....then he could have maybe gotten his money back.

Crappy behavior, imo.


----------



## Created2Write

EleGirl said:


> I'm 63. Been pregnant twice. My libido has never dropped. I've always been at least as HD as my husband or higher. A lot of women do not experience libido drop.
> 
> Shoot, some women even love their husband and want to have sex with them.
> 
> I suppose this would shock you though.


This is only one of the many reasons I love you and respect you EleGirl.


----------



## that_girl

Gawd, if my libido dropped right now, I'd be happy!! Nothing worse than getting a divorce and having a HD. lmao.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> Some women not most women.
> 
> I'm just telling it like it is.
> 
> Just because a wife won't have sex or will have sex is absolutely no indicator of overall love.... that is BS
> 
> Women typically don't associate sex with love. Thats a mans view.
> 
> Once in a while you get the perfect storm
> 
> A woman in love and a woman who loves sex


A woman can't be in love with a man if she doesn't desire him sexually. (Baring any extreme circumstances) And vice versa. Being "in love" _means_ sexual desire. What does being in love include? Romance. Romance without sex? Dead romance. Without sex the love is nothing but friendship, imo.


----------



## that_girl

And in any case, the OP has EVERY RIGHT to be upset.

People need to stop taking that from him. Dang. His irritation is valid and appropriate.


----------



## Created2Write

Also, if a woman doesn't desire sex, she has no business being married to a man who does. Why else would a man take a wife anyway? He can have companionship with his buddies. He can have friendship with other women. He can even have a roommate to cuddle with, if he wants. _Sex_ is why a man takes a wife. 

I mean, come on. If you marry, you better be ready to have sex. If you aren't, then you don't love the man enough and shouldn't marry him.


----------



## Created2Write

that_girl said:


> And in any case, the OP has EVERY RIGHT to be upset.
> 
> People need to stop taking that from him. Dang. His irritation is valid and appropriate.


Definitely. 100%. And I absolutely agree he should cancel his plans for her birthday last minute, and go chillax at the beach alone. I don't agree he should get an escort. I mean, cheating? Really? How shallow can someone be to suggest that? But definitely go to the beach alone.


----------



## firefly789

I would adore my husband if he did this for me. I never had a problem leaving the kids with the grandparents for some "us" time once in a while. I think it was bad that she agreed and then changed her mind at the last minute. I guess the only tactical problem was planning it on her birthday gave her leverage to do this. Still, it's controlling of her. 

Can you still ask her to stay one night this weekend? Ask her which weekend you could reschedule it for?

I hope you express how disappointed you are so that she sees the consequences of her actions. Also, getting MIL involved was not good.


----------



## that_girl

Yea, the whole MIL situation is lame. God knows what she told her mom and moms forget NOTHING bad, and have a hard time remember anything good.

This is why my mother knew nothing of my marriage. Ever.


----------



## Wiserforit

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm just telling it like it is.


You're just telling what you are like. 

An attitude men in general would be very wise to avoid.


----------



## Created2Write

that_girl said:


> Yea, the whole MIL situation is lame. God knows what she told her mom and moms forget NOTHING bad, and have a hard time remember anything good.
> 
> This is why my mother knew nothing of my marriage. Ever.


I'm learning that if I want our decisions to go smooth and drama free, to wait until _after_ they're made to tell my mom.  She means well, but man does it feel like I'm being lectured all the time. lol.


----------



## Created2Write

Wiserforit said:


> You're just telling what you are like.
> 
> An attitude men in general would be very wise to avoid.


:smthumbup: Yup!


----------



## that_girl

And the MIL just added fuel to the fire. Wtf. "Oh NO! Your husband wanted to take you away for your BIRTHDAY!? OMG The NERVE!! Come stay with me...leave him at home."

 That's some BS right there.

If this was my daughter, I'd ask her what the real problem was. And tell her how thoughtful this was. 

Then again, we only know THIS story. Who knows what the marriage is like in general. Or the wife's side.


----------



## Created2Write

that_girl said:


> And the MIL just added fuel to the fire. Wtf. "Oh NO! Your husband wanted to take you away for your BIRTHDAY!? OMG The NERVE!! Come stay with me...leave him at home."
> 
> That's some BS right there.
> 
> If this was my daughter, I'd ask her what the real problem was. And tell her how thoughtful this was.
> 
> Then again, we only know THIS story. Who knows what the marriage is like in general. Or the wife's side.


There's always two sides, but regardless of her excuses, it was wrong, disrespectful, selfish, immature, passive aggressive and cruel to talk like she wanted to go on the trip for _months_, and then cancel at the last minute. You don't do that unless there's an emergency. 

I would p!ss myself if my husband did something like that for me.


----------



## that_girl

If my husband did that, I would take the weekend alone, tell him I'm reflecting on our issues (big problems, imo) and then talk to him when I get back.

Seriously.


----------



## Created2Write

Me too. I'd take my best dress and my highest heals, and go to a bar and get a bunch of martinis. Then I'd go walk on the beach, and then go back to the condo, take a hot shower and read til 4 am, sleep in the next morning, go for another walk on the beach and then go home.


----------



## soccermom2three

Yes, I remember your other thread about how your wife runs to her mom complaining about you. She's very disrespectful.

I'm kind of surprised that your MIL wasn't disappointed about you guys not going away. She was probably looking forward to having her granddaughter stay for the weekend. I know my in-laws would be, they love to spoil the grandkids.

If my husband planned something like this for me, I would be like, "What time are we leaving?" and my bags would be a packed a week before. My husband doesn't plan anything, weekends away, date nights, nada. He says, "I have too much on my mind, you plan it and just let me know the dates". Not very romantic.


----------



## that_girl

Yea, the MIL thing is wrong. Instead of talking to you, OP, she runs to her mom, runs her mouth, god knows what she says, and then feels validated for being a betch.

That needs to be nipped, but hell if I know how.


----------



## Paradise

I only had to read the post regarding the MIL. Ugh... Brings back BAD memories for me! I can see this relationship already. Let me guess, the MIL is one of those who is always there and basically runs the house. 

The wife sounds very immature. Sounds like she goes running to mommy to cover for her anytime someone does something she disagrees with. 

Or....I may just be reliving a past nightmare....Either way it sucks!


----------



## jd08

MIL defends her daughter first and foremost. In fairness I wasn't being the nicest husband today (cold shoulder for the past 24 hours) but it's how I deal with this kind of ****. Rather than act sad I just get really pissed. 

One thing I forgot to add. MIL also said I was acting like my father in law. So you see where my wife gets her ideas from. 



soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I remember your other thread about how your wife runs to her mom complaining about you. She's very disrespectful.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised that your MIL wasn't disappointed about you guys not going away. She was probably looking forward to having her granddaughter stay for the weekend. I know my in-laws would be, they love to spoil the grandkids.
> 
> If my husband planned something like this for me, I would be like, "What time are we leaving?" and my bags would be a packed a week before. My husband doesn't plan anything, weekends away, date nights, nada. He says, "I have too much on my mind, you plan it and just let me know the dates". Not very romantic.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> MIL defends her daughter first and foremost. In fairness I wasn't being the nicest husband today (cold shoulder for the past 24 hours) but it's how I deal with this kind of ****. Rather than act sad I just get really pissed.
> 
> One thing I forgot to add. MIL also said I was acting like my father in law. So you see where my wife gets her ideas from.


Oh gosh. This kind of thing with MIL's makes me ill.

Please tell me you're gonna go to the beach still.


----------



## firefly789

Have you read the 5 Love Languages? Maybe Quality Time is at the top of your list and at the bottom of hers and she needs to see your perspective.

We never got in-laws involved in our marriage. I was very close to my mom and I know she sometimes go a little miffed that I defended my husband no matter what, and never dragged any dirty laundry up.

Not to add to your pile, but this should be another discussion with wife.

I still hope you do something nice for yourself this weekend, like go to the beach house even for a day. Otherwise, the resentment will build.


----------



## jd08

No.  it's 4 hours away. I am gonna try to re-schedule for the end of May. If my wife wants to come she can. If not that's fine too. 



Created2Write said:


> Oh gosh. This kind of thing with MIL's makes me ill.
> 
> Please tell me you're gonna go to the beach still.


----------



## jd08

Working on something nice. Have to get over my anger first. It's eating at me and making me feel physically sick. 



firefly789 said:


> Have you read the 5 Love Languages? Maybe Quality Time is at the top of your list and at the bottom of hers and she needs to see your perspective.
> 
> We never got in-laws involved in our marriage. I was very close to my mom and I know she sometimes go a little miffed that I defended my husband no matter what, and never dragged any dirty laundry up.
> 
> Not to add to your pile, but this should be another discussion with wife.
> 
> I still hope you do something nice for yourself this weekend, like go to the beach house even for a day. Otherwise, the resentment will build.


----------



## Created2Write

Your wife should realize how lucky she is. She doesn't deserve to get anything from you for her birthday at all. 

Have you talked to her about this? There MUST be consequences, or she'll cancel on you next time too.


----------



## jd08

The good thing about the next trip is it's my trip. If she wants to come she's invited. Otherwise I'll go and enjoy myself and that's going to be clear to her. Hell I need the vacation too. 



Created2Write said:


> Your wife should realize how lucky she is. She doesn't deserve to get anything from you for her birthday at all.
> 
> Have you talked to her about this? There MUST be consequences, or she'll cancel on you next time too.


----------



## IndiaInk

jd08 said:


> Let me ask - if she really sees it as a sex get away how will picking a different time help the situation? Assuming that is what I'm after then it's still gonna be a sex getaway next weekend or the weekend after that, at least in her mind. Her birthday has nothing to do with it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh. I'm sorry.

I've read a number of your posts jd08 and I really feel for you.

You seem like a really great husband and father and your wife is totally unappreciative of that...and totally emotionally abusive.

Women can be VERY VERY cruel to men...it's really wrong, and it should be acknowledged in our greater society...instead it's totally swept under the rug...

Anyway, I was going to say, I totally get why your initial reaction to the _'sex getaway disguised as a bday weekend' _comments was a negative (and a bit defensive) one...

Because of course, it really shouldn't be that way. You do REALLY love your wife (or at least want her to *make it possible* for you to love her) . And you're happy to celebrate her birthday. And that that celebration would and should rightfully entail some mutually desired and enjoyable sex is a totally reasonable expectation. You have no desire to just use YOUR WIFE sex...I understand how to seemingly be accused of that is quite offensive and repugnant

BUT...those posters did offer you some truly useful insight...and I hope you won't dismiss it

Because, they were totally right...and it's important that you can see this yourself.

I mean, the cold ugly reality in your marriage is:

You want sex.

She does not.

The highlight of her Bday weekend for you would've been some intimate time (mutually desired of course)--and that's completely OKAY and UNDERSTANDABLE

But she doesn't desire it...as evidenced by her decision to cancel and your resulting bitterness. So it was a covert contract.

And the only problem with that is the *'covertness'*... because covertness can never lead you out of this rotten dynamic.

Laying everything you want and need from your marriage on the table and unapologetically saying: _"life is way too short for me to spend years in a miserable marriage. I won't do it anymore. This stuff is absolutely make or break for me"_ and being brave enough to allow it to indeed make or break the marriage is the only way the rotten dynamic ever ends (however way it does ultimately end)

The real problem is: you're not ready to go for broke here yet. You're seriously unhappy and frustrated, but you've got a young daughter, a baby on the way, and a host of other considerations I'm sure that keep you from that brink

And until you're ready to 'walk away'...it'll be much easier for you to focus your attention on 'distractors' like _"I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband."_

I suppose we'd call that 'righteous indignation' and while that's a tempting emotion to focus on /line of reasoning to employ...and certainly a merited sentiment it just doesn't help you...so I hope you can abandon it

I hope you can get to a place where you see that you are the ultimate author of your present and future misery here...and that while you continue to accept and support her unacceptable treatment of you...and seek sex (which is totally a rightful expectation in YOUR MARRIAGE) via indirect means like said birthday weekend you (NOT HER) are the one really penning more misery in your life book

Because the sooner you own that, the sooner you'll eventually lay it all on the line and write a new script for yourself. And even if that takes five or how ever many years to do...at least I'll be more confident that you'll ultimately do it.

I can't tell how sad it makes me to think of all the men who stay loveless and denied their whole lives, always looking in askance at their wives...and dying without anything ever changing

Because when stripped to the bone their problems and the redress for their problems rested entirely with them. And always did.

One of my favorite Marcus Aurelius quotes (modified):

_If you are continually distressed by anything external, the pain is not actually due to the thing itself, but to your continuing willingness to endure to it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment._


----------



## jd08

Nice and accurate thoughts. Thank you. 




IndiaInk said:


> Ugh. I'm sorry.
> 
> I've read a number of your posts jd08 and I really feel for you.
> 
> You seem like a really great husband and father and your wife is totally unappreciative of that...and totally emotionally abusive.
> 
> Women can be VERY VERY cruel to men...it's really wrong, and it should be acknowledged in our greater society...instead it's totally swept under the rug...
> 
> Anyway, I was going to say, I totally get why your initial reaction to the _'sex getaway disguised as a bday weekend' _comments was a negative (and a bit defensive) one...
> 
> Because of course, it really shouldn't be that way. You do REALLY love your wife (or at least want her to *make it possible* for you to love her) . And you're happy to celebrate her birthday. And that that celebration would and should rightfully entail some mutually desired and enjoyable sex is a totally reasonable expectation. You have no desire to just use YOUR WIFE sex...I understand how to seemingly be accused of that is quite offensive and repugnant
> 
> BUT...those posters did offer you some truly useful insight...and I hope you won't dismiss it
> 
> Because, they were totally right...and it's important that you can see this yourself.
> 
> I mean, the cold ugly reality in your marriage is:
> 
> You want sex.
> 
> She does not.
> 
> The highlight of her Bday weekend for you would've been some intimate time (mutually desired of course)--and that's completely OKAY and UNDERSTANDABLE
> 
> But she doesn't desire it...as evidenced by her decision to cancel and your resulting bitterness. So it was a covert contract.
> 
> And the only problem with that is the *'covertness'*... because covertness can never lead you out of this rotten dynamic.
> 
> Laying everything you want and need from your marriage on the table and unapologetically saying: _"life is way too short for me to spend years in a miserable marriage. I won't do it anymore. This stuff is absolutely make or break for me"_ and being brave enough to allow it to indeed make or break the marriage is the only way the rotten dynamic ever ends (however way it does ultimately end)
> 
> The real problem is: you're not ready to go for broke here yet. You're seriously unhappy and frustrated, but you've got a young daughter, a baby on the way, and a host of other considerations I'm sure that keep you from that brink
> 
> And until you're ready to 'walk away'...it'll be much easier for you to focus your attention on 'distractors' like _"I am face palming myself now for having the audacity to think that she might enjoy a weekend away with her husband."_
> 
> I suppose we'd call that 'righteous indignation' and while that's a tempting emotion to focus on /line of reasoning to employ...and certainly a merited sentiment it just doesn't help you...so I hope you can abandon it
> 
> I hope you can get to a place where you see that you are the ultimate author of your present and future misery here...and that while you continue to accept and support her unacceptable treatment of you...and seek sex (which is totally a rightful expectation in YOUR MARRIAGE) via indirect means like said birthday weekend you (NOT HER) are the one really penning more misery in your life book
> 
> Because the sooner you own that, the sooner you'll eventually lay it all on the line and write a new script for yourself. And even if that takes five or how ever many years to do...at least I'll be more confident that you'll ultimately do it.
> 
> I can't tell how sad it makes me to think of all the men who stay loveless and denied their whole lives, always looking in askance at their wives...and dying without anything ever changing
> 
> Because when stripped to the bone their problems and the redress for their problems rested entirely with them. And always did.
> 
> One of my favorite Marcus Aurelius quotes (modified):
> 
> _If you are continually distressed by anything external, the pain is not actually due to the thing itself, but to your continuing willingness to endure to it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment._


----------



## Created2Write

jd: have you told your wife about how you feel? You haven't answered that question yet, and it's been asked more than once...It's great that you plan on making your own trip...but that won't do ANYTHING about THIS situation. There HAS to be some kind of consequence here, or it WILL happen again. 

Lets say you plan this next trip, invite her alone and she says no, knowing that you're going to go whether she does or not...there's no consequence there. Even if she says yes and cancels again, you going alone that time won't be a consequence because she _knows_ you're going to go alone already.

You can't just let this go, man. I know it seems like a jerk thing to do, being her birthday and all, but you HAVE to keep her accountable or it will keep happening.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

OP...

You have received good advice and insight.

Whether you accept it is up to you.

When you bottom line it .... the initial gift was at least in part to your own desires... not strictly your wife's birthday desires.... she even said so to your face in not so many words.

She was wrong for waiting until the last minute... she didn't have the guts earlier and had to come up with a cover excuse. She likes the status quo with you at the bottom of her list. You threw a monkey wrench in with an overnight alone stay. The expectation was clear she could enjoy the stay and pay up in sex. You wife is not stupid.

You were wrong for reacting cold shoulder and now likely ruining her birthday. Further proving to her you have self-centered issues thats a turn-off.

All because you did not ask yourself.. "What does my wife really want for her birthday?"


I think the only thing good that happened is you magnified your issue because I have a feeling you were blind to it or obtuse. You reality was skewed.. 

You have a tough road ahead good luck.

Its not what you want to believe.. it is the truth

You created this long ago... think you should do some self-reflection and ask yourself "Why did she react this way?" TRY TO SEE HER VIEW FOR ONCE... not just your view. I suspect that is part of you issues with your wife.

You can change this in time but it starts with self-reflection and honesty.
Not denial.

I'm not saying you are some ogre... I'm just trying to open your eyes before its too late.


----------



## Created2Write

I don't think you were wrong for giving this to her as a BD gift at all. Especially since you asked her if she would like it first, and she _said yes_. This issue is on her end. I don't think you did ANYTHING wrong, jd.


----------



## jd08

I told her today she was being inconsiderate and rude and asked her how she would feel if roles were reversed. She said she would be upset but said I get too mad and that she wouldnt get like that. She said I was acting "hateful." 



Created2Write said:


> jd: have you told your wife about how you feel? You haven't answered that question yet, and it's been asked more than once...It's great that you plan on making your own trip...but that won't do ANYTHING about THIS situation. There HAS to be some kind of consequence here, or it WILL happen again.
> 
> Lets say you plan this next trip, invite her alone and she says no, knowing that you're going to go whether she does or not...there's no consequence there. Even if she says yes and cancels again, you going alone that time won't be a consequence because she _knows_ you're going to go alone already.
> 
> You can't just let this go, man. I know it seems like a jerk thing to do, being her birthday and all, but you HAVE to keep her accountable or it will keep happening.


----------



## Created2Write

And as far as I'm concerned, she has no right to have an enjoyable birthday now.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> I told her today she was being inconsiderate and rude and asked her how she would feel if roles were reversed. She said she would be upset but said I get too mad and that she wouldnt get like that. She said I was acting "hateful."


I'm glad you told her how you felt. Her response shows that she really isn't concerned about your feelings or your needs as her husband, though. Has she even apologized yet? 

Seriously, if you're not going to go the beach, don't go out of your way to make her birthday fun. Stay at home. Don't take her shopping, don't take her to the movies or out to dinner. If she suggests doing anything, tell her she's more than welcome to do whatever she wants. You already payed for a vacation to the beach, something she agreed to and said she would enjoy. If she wants a great birthday after this, let her create it herself. And let her celebrate it by herself since she didn't care about having you there to celebrate in the first place.


----------



## jd08

Have you simply accepted this kind of treatment from your wife? Is that where you are now?



Trying2figureitout said:


> OP...
> 
> You have received good advice and insight.
> 
> Whether you accept it is up to you.
> 
> When you bottom line it .... the initial gift was at least in part to your own desires... not strictly your wife's birthday desires.
> 
> She was wrong for waiting until the last minute... she didn't have the guts earlier and had to come up with a cover excuse. She likes the status quo with you at the bottom of her list. You threw a monkey wrench in with an overnight alone stay. The expectation was clear she could enjoy the stay and pay up in sex.
> 
> You were wrong for reacting cold shoulder and now likely ruining her birthday.
> 
> All because you did not ask yourself.. "What does my wife really want for her birthday?"
> 
> 
> I think the only thing good that happened is you magnified your issue because I have a feeling you were blind to it or obtuse. You reality was skewed..
> 
> You have a tough road ahead good luck.
> 
> Its not what you want to believe.. it is the truth


----------



## Created2Write

I still call BS on this whole "pay up in sex" crap. Firstly, why can't a man do something nice for his wife without being accused of only wanting sex from it? Secondly, why is it so wrong for husbands and wives to expect sex from each other? Why is that selfish? Even if the OP _only_ did it for sex, his wife should realize how lucky she is that he used a beach trip to get it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jd08 said:


> Have you simply accepted this kind of treatment from your wife? Is that where you are now?


This is not about me.. its about you.

My story will be updated an fully disclosed later. Truth be know I used to be where you are so I'm many years ahead of you.
You simply don't want to accept your reality.

I'm actually trying to help you not just beat you up.


----------



## Created2Write

Tryingtofigureitout: she DIDN'T say she didn't want to go. They talked about it more than once since February, and she maintained that she wanted to go, that it would be something she enjoyed. 

The OP has only had his wife entirely to himself *one time* in four years. His WIFE needs to stop being selfish and bratty, and see things from HIS perspective for once. But she doesn't want to. He isn't a priority to her, and she wants to keep it that way. Otherwise, she would have gone on the trip.

Sorry. His wife was the one in the wrong here. Unless, of course, the OP is lying about the whole thing a fabricating this whole story.


----------



## jd08

You are projecting. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> This is not about me.. its about you.
> 
> My story will be disclosed later. Truth be know I used to be whee you are so I'm years ahead of you.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> You are projecting.


Yes he is. And the fact that 98% of the people on this thread and the other one have agreed with you is telling.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jd08 said:


> You are projecting.



What does that even mean?

You are in denial.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Don't worry T's got a plan!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

WorkingOnMe said:


> Don't worry T's got a plan!


Better than not having one... and wondering WTH


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Yup. And you're almost there. Just "another" year or two.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> What does that even mean?
> 
> You are in denial.


Denial about what? The issue is with _his wife_. There was nothing wrong about scheduling this trip for her birthday. I can't imagine any woman getting upset over her husband planning a romantic trip to the beach for her birthday. Moreover, she said repeatedly that she _wanted_ to go. He asked her if she wanted to go/if she would enjoy a trip like that before planning it, and she said yes. They talked about it more than once over the last couple of months, and she maintained that she wanted to go. 

Unless you expect him to read her mind, I fail to see how he is in denial about anything, or how any of this is his fault.


----------



## JCD

Blink blink.

I can't believe this. With so many female posters here, why am I, a man, the first to bring up the fact *she is 6 months pregnant!*

First off,she did a thoughtless move on this. And she isn't showing ANY remorse or thoughtfulness. Her entire attitude reeks of 'get over it'.

BUT...pregnoids get hormonal. They get *****y. Their sense of smell would put Wolveraine to shame. For SOME women, they get uncomfortable with sex. Some want to throw up at the idea of...um...intimate things she can do with her mouth...

So in Feb, she MIGHT, have been ready and willing...but for THIS pregnancy, she might find herself less willing and able...hence the gentle mind reading assumption as she slowly tried to back out of it. Hubby should GET that she doesn't want to do this. There is no way he should assume that this is a positive thing, breaking me out of my rut...and if he were Professor Xavier,he would know this...but he isn't.

Whether she felt trapped, or coerced or tired or unable to leave her child, *whatever her excuse*, she should have communicated it clearly and as much in advance as possible.

If she only became aware of it at the last minute, she owes it to be contrite at screwing his plans over, if only to keep the peace.

So fie on her there.

BUT...jd...you are coming across as a bit of a ****, I'm sory to say. Sure..be mad. But everyone is here to offer you THEIR best advice...even stuff you don't want to hear. I'd be a bit more gracious to the other posters.

So...advice. You spent a boatload of money on this trip and it's gone. So obviously you can't spend money on her birthday.

It's the same as if you gave her an expensive crystal vase and she tossed it down the stairs. It's gone and the money too. So sad.

I would be very hesitant to plan ANY more vacations, frankly, until she can CLEARLY, CONCISELY AND RESPECTFULLY tell you why she acted like such a **** on this one. Why waste the money on someone untrustworthy?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

WorkingOnMe said:


> Yup. And you're almost there. Just "another" year or two.


 its going to be especially fun to disclose to you.


----------



## Created2Write

Being six months pregnant does NOT excuse this kind of behavior. At waiting until the day they were going to leave to say anything? Sorry. At that point you suck it up and go for the night.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Created2Write said:


> Denial about what? The issue is with _his wife_. There was nothing wrong about scheduling this trip for her birthday. I can't imagine any woman getting upset over her husband planning a romantic trip to the beach for her birthday. Moreover, she said repeatedly that she _wanted_ to go. He asked her if she wanted to go/if she would enjoy a trip like that before planning it, and she said yes. They talked about it more than once over the last couple of months, and she maintained that she wanted to go.
> 
> Unless you expect him to read her mind, I fail to see how he is in denial about anything, or how any of this is his fault.


His reaction and reading between the lines.


----------



## jd08

How come every time I refresh this page I read T2's posts differently? There is some heavy editing going on here. It doesn't matter how often you change the words around, I'm still not taking lectures about what I'm doing wrong from a guy who has mind-tricked himself into believing he's happy in a miserable marriage.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Trying2figureitout said:


> its going to be especially fun to disclose to you.


I can't wait. I'll be genuinely happy for you if she dumps her boyfriend and starts getting physical with you.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jd08 said:


> I told her today she was being inconsiderate and rude and asked her how she would feel if roles were reversed. She said she would be upset but said I get too mad and that she wouldnt get like that. She said I was acting "hateful."


You were.

Shes telling it like it is and you REFUSE to accept it.

Look in the mirror.

Its both of you... you THINK its all her.

Hateful is a pretty strong word... she's over it. Tread softly.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Right fighter.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> His reaction and reading between the lines.


His reaction was totally understandable. She doesn't deserve to have an enjoyable birthday now, nor should she get one. He hasn't blown up about it. He's been more gracious than I would have been in his shoes. 

And reading between what lines? Saying that you would enjoy a trip to the beach isn't exactly dropping any hints...other than that you're excited on going to the beach. What lines was he supposed to reading between exactly? 

If she was worried about sex, she should have freaking said so. Woman up, already. Stop being a wimp. If you don't want to go to the beach, say so in the beginning. Or, if you wanted to go then and a week before you realize you don't, just say so! And then apologize, and try to come up with some kind of compromise. 

The two haven't had a whole night alone together in four years! Is he supposed to sit back and watch his wife destroy their marriage and just sit with a smile on his face while it happens? Wth?


----------



## JCD

Oh...I remember him now!

T2FIO is in a totally sexless marriage. He refuses to try to change that fact in any meaningful way or leave a loveless, unfaithful woman...at least as of his last postings I saw.

His wife constantly hit him with 'you are forcing me to have sex' so this is always topmost on his mind.

I will leave it to you jd at how much weight to give to his advice.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jd08 said:


> How come every time I refresh this page I read T2's posts differently? There is some heavy editing going on here. It doesn't matter how often you change the words around, I'm still not taking lectures about what I'm doing wrong from a guy who has mind-tricked himself into believing he's happy in a miserable marriage.


Fine be miserable. One day you'll learn.


----------



## EleGirl

Trying2figureitout said:


> Some women not most women.
> 
> I'm just telling it like it is.
> 
> Just because a wife won't have sex or will have sex is absolutely no indicator of overall love.... that is BS
> 
> Women typically don't associate sex with love. Thats a mans view.
> 
> Once in a while you get the perfect storm
> 
> A woman in love and a woman who loves sex


A lot of women equate sex and love.

When a person refuses on a regular basis to have sex with their spouse, husband or wife, it's makes the spouse feel unloved. It's makes them feel like they are unlovable, unattractive, and all sort of hurtful things.

Why even get married if you (proverbial “you”) do not love your spouse enough to have sex with them?


----------



## Created2Write

How was he being hateful?! I am seriously at a loss right now. If I pulled a stunt like this on my husband, I would fully expect to be ignored for a week, and never get anything romantic every again. Because in cancelling at the last minute like she did, I would be telling him, "Guess what? You don't mean sh!t to me. All the thought you put into this trip means nothing to me."


----------



## jd08

Goodnight everyone. Thanks to most of you for restoring my faith in the female population.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

JCD said:


> Oh...I remember him now!
> 
> T2FIO is in a totally sexless marriage. He refuses to try to change that fact in any meaningful way or leave a loveless, unfaithful woman...at least as of his last postings I saw.
> 
> His wife constantly hit him with 'you are forcing me to have sex' so this is always topmost on his mind.
> 
> I will leave it to you jd at how much weight to give to his advice.


and you base that on what?

I have not posted any personal updates for a reason. I'm looking for consistency to be of value to others as evidence a viable plan to reverse sexless marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

jd08 said:


> How come every time I refresh this page I read T2's posts differently? There is some heavy editing going on here. It doesn't matter how often you change the words around, I'm still not taking lectures about what I'm doing wrong from a guy who has mind-tricked himself into believing he's happy in a miserable marriage.


The ignore function can be your friend.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Entropy3000 said:


> The ignore function can be your friend.


LOL no one ignores me.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

No Mrs T2 threw him a bone in January.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> Goodnight everyone. Thanks to most of you for restoring my faith in the female population.


PLEASE don't give up. You have a chance to fix this situation, and in doing so it requires that you hold your wife accountable to her actions. Letting her get away with this and choosing to blame yourself(when you are obviously not to blame as far as we can see) is only going to amplify these situations. 

JCD was right...you spent money on the beach weekend that she agreed to. She threw that away, so she doesn't get a birthday now. Put your foot down, man. Seriously. 

Sleep well. I truly, truly hope things work out and your wife realizes that you need and deserve one on one alone time with her, and that she also deserves relaxing one on one time with you!


----------



## JCD

Trying2figureitout said:


> LOL no one ignores me.


Bets?


----------



## mablenc

OP,
Sorry it did not work out, it was a lovely gesture in my opinion. Personally, that would be the best birthday gift ever! I have a child with special needs and would love to have family near by to watch him. You did nothing wrong, she had agreed to it, I know she is pregnant but that's even more of reason to want to go and relax. Only positive thing I would say is that this gives you the opportunity to look at your marriage and see that there is a problem. It breaks my heart that after all your planning and effort she does not want to go. I hope you can take this experience and work for a positive change in your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

WorkingOnMe said:


> No Mrs T2 threw him a bone in January.


Which is exactly what happens when you don't hold your spouse accountable for their actions, their choices.

OP, unless you want to live your marriage waiting for the bones your wife will throw you, put your foot down in this situation. Others might tell you that you can't force your wife to change, and that's true. But you damn well better give her a reason to at least, otherwise she will realize that she can walk all over you and not suffer any consequences. 

You want a genuinely happy marriage? Hold her accountable. Set boundaries. Hold her to them. Make sure that you don't sweep your needs under the rug, because if you don't take your own needs seriously, your wife won't either.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> LOL no one ignores me.


If the OP wants to fix this situation, I hope he does.


----------



## EleGirl

We teach people how to treat us. If we allow them to mistreat us, guess what, they will mistreat us.


----------



## that_girl

I think the only miserable person here is T2FIO. Dang. Not my fault your wife won't sleep with you.

Funny how the WOMEN here are saying this was a NICE THING. That we'd LOVE a night away, etc...

And then T2FIO says we're basically lying :rofl:

Or our libidos will drop :rofl:

Hell, when I was 6 months pregnant, I had to get myself off because I was SO TURNED ON all the time.

6 months pregnant isn't an excuse and I did bring that up earlier. If she doesn't want sex, fine...understandable because pregnancy can be uncomfortable for someone women and sex. But a night away is STILL relaxing. And nice. Her problem was not wanting to leave their other child, which I find ridiculous.


----------



## JCD

that_girl said:


> 6 months pregnant isn't an excuse and I did bring that up earlier. If she doesn't want sex, fine...understandable because pregnancy can be uncomfortable for someone women and sex. But a night away is STILL relaxing. And nice. Her problem was not wanting to leave their other child, which I find ridiculous.


The thing is, she could have brought these reasons up and should have. To blindside him like this is not kosher...which we all seem to agree on except for T2FIO and Dallasapple.


----------



## Mavash.

JCD said:


> The thing is, she could have brought these reasons up and should have. To blindside him like this is not kosher...which we all seem to agree on except for T2FIO and Dallasapple.


I mentioned this in another thread started by dallasapple. 2 years ago my husband planned a trip for my birthday that I didn't want. I agreed to it but the closer we got the more I didn't want to go.

But.....I didn't bail on him at the last minute. That wouldn't be right so I went. I admitted I should have told him sooner and I owned that. I struggled to set my pissy mood aside on that trip but our marriage wasn't great at the time and that didn't help.


----------



## Catherine602

Does a husband or wife need to do a psychological and market analysis to plan one simple week end??? What has happened in our culture, if this is as widespread as I think. 

I see it as him making a very thoughtful get away for him and his wife in anticipation of the busy times ahead for both of them. And who says men don't plan or pay attention to details? "What a guy", that's what I thought when I read about what he planned. 

And the expectation of sex, dah. That's a bad thing? He is a bad man for wanting to love his wife. I look at it this way. He loves her and misses her and wants to establish a closer connection before they get too busy. It's a celebration not a wake. 

That's how I would put it to your wife. Any idea that you are somehow insensitive because you want to be alone and intimate with your wife is nuts in my mind. It simple, you planned a nice time for both of you and she blew it off like it was nothing. I am certain you would not have done that to her.

After this, I think it is important that you don't appear to apologize for being a man. I would state simply that she married a man and you remain so. You love and protect and provide and have kids and have sex together. You are also sensitive to her needs. Don't argue just state the obvious because she may have forgotten. 

Then continue being a man and don't doubt. It's up to you to push her to be a woman in a firm and gentle way. Don't back down. If she will not follow, take it to the next level with MC. If she does not want to go you go. It's up to you, you can turn this around if you are convinced you are acting in the interest of your family and you are normal, if not better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

that_girl said:


> I think the only miserable person here is T2FIO. Dang. Not my fault your wife won't sleep with you.
> 
> Funny how the WOMEN here are saying this was a NICE THING. That we'd LOVE a night away, etc...
> 
> And then T2FIO says we're basically lying :rofl:
> 
> Or our libidos will drop :rofl:
> 
> Hell, when I was 6 months pregnant, I had to get myself off because I was SO TURNED ON all the time.
> 
> 6 months pregnant isn't an excuse and I did bring that up earlier. If she doesn't want sex, fine...understandable because pregnancy can be uncomfortable for someone women and sex. But a night away is STILL relaxing. And nice. Her problem was not wanting to leave their other child, which I find ridiculous.


I'm far from miserable. Yes I've learned a thing or two. In doing so I try to help others.

Remember you only feel the way you do as a woman yourself...I'm setting him straight based on his wife's responses and his overall attitude.

I could be off-base however I don't think so. Sometimes the truth hurts.
The truth sets you free. Rather than some rose-colored glasses.

That Girl... you are very giving sexually... and a bit insecure....and overly trusting.... that is not typical of most guys wives who post here.
You are projecting your own sense of sexuality to HIS wife.

It took a lot of hutspa for her to cancel at the last minute.... yet she did not seem very concerned afterward she felt no remorse as she already figured out it was a scheme. Whether she was justified is another topic...it just is the case.

A red flag.

His angry/vindictive response...

Another Red flag

Hope its just the pregnancy but it could certainly be much deeper. OP needs to tread softly and self-reflect.
His wife does also..but we all know that won't happen for a long while.... years down the road possibly.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl:

I am not insecure. 

And you aren't setting him straight on anything. Nothing that I saw of value anyway.

But I won't argue with someone who doesn't know me


----------



## daisygirl 41

TG insecure??
That's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read on here!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wiserforit

Trying2figureitout said:


> His angry/vindictive response...


Vindictive means to show an intense, unreasonable thirst for revenge. He has done no such thing, and the wife's attack on him for being "hateful" is typical blame-the-victim rubbish. 

There is something else going on with attacking this guy, like you two have a history of arguments or something. 

Most of us understand that having a spouse who wants to ravish us is not just a good thing, but a great thing. Turning this man's desire for his wife into a bad thing is ludicrous.


----------



## anonim

Trying2figureitout said:


> LOL no one ignores me.


Did someone say something?


----------



## dallasapple

JCD said:


> The thing is, she could have brought these reasons up and should have. To blindside him like this is not kosher...which we all seem to agree on except for T2FIO and Dallasapple.


Excuse me? I have said repeatedly her not being forthcoming sooner was NOT "kosher".The minute she started wavering in her mind and or "knew" she just wasn't going to go she should have told him what was on her mind.If that was in Feb. or the day before we will never know.


----------



## Created2Write

that_girl said:


> I think the only miserable person here is T2FIO. Dang. Not my fault your wife won't sleep with you.
> 
> Funny how the WOMEN here are saying this was a NICE THING. That we'd LOVE a night away, etc...
> 
> And then T2FIO says we're basically lying :rofl:
> 
> Or our libidos will drop :rofl:
> 
> Hell, when I was 6 months pregnant, I had to get myself off because I was SO TURNED ON all the time.
> 
> 6 months pregnant isn't an excuse and I did bring that up earlier. If she doesn't want sex, fine...understandable because pregnancy can be uncomfortable for someone women and sex. But a night away is STILL relaxing. And nice. Her problem was not wanting to leave their other child, which I find ridiculous.


Yup. I agree. The issue isn't sex, it's that OP's wife refuses to leave their daughter for even one night.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm far from miserable. Yes I've learned a thing or two. In doing so I try to help others.
> 
> Remember you only feel the way you do as a woman yourself...I'm setting him straight based on his wife's responses and his overall attitude.
> 
> I could be off-base however I don't think so. Sometimes the truth hurts.
> The truth sets you free. Rather than some rose-colored glasses.
> 
> That Girl... you are very giving sexually... and a bit insecure....and overly trusting.... that is not typical of most guys wives who post here.
> You are projecting your own sense of sexuality to HIS wife.
> 
> It took a lot of hutspa for her to cancel at the last minute.... yet she did not seem very concerned afterward she felt no remorse as she already figured out it was a scheme. Whether she was justified is another topic...it just is the case.
> 
> A red flag.
> 
> His angry/vindictive response...
> 
> Another Red flag
> 
> Hope its just the pregnancy but it could certainly be much deeper. OP needs to tread softly and self-reflect.
> His wife does also..but we all know that won't happen for a long while.... years down the road possibly.


The only one projecting is you, man. Your situation sucks, but it's no reason to tell another man that he was wrong for trying to do something nice for his wife. Something that had very little to do with sex, if it had anything to do with it at all. This plan wasn't some malicious scheme, like you keep making it out to be. 

And the fact that you continue to ignore the wife's responsibilities is a direct reflect of how your also ignore _your_ wife's responsibilities. Your advice has been some of the worst I've seen offered to anyone on this forum since I've joined. What you do in your marriage is your business. But don't act like it's the key for every marriage issue.


----------



## JCD

Created2Write said:


> The only one projecting is you, man. Your situation sucks, but it's no reason to tell another man that he was wrong for trying to do something nice for his wife. Something that had very little to do with sex, if it had anything to do with it at all. This plan wasn't some malicious scheme, like you keep making it out to be.
> 
> And the fact that you continue to ignore the wife's responsibilities is a direct reflect of how your also ignore _your_ wife's responsibilities. Your advice has been some of the worst I've seen offered to anyone on this forum since I've joined. What you do in your marriage is your business. But don't act like it's the key for every marriage issue.


To be fair, Created2Write, HIS WIFE, is ignoring HER responsibilities. He's just letting her.

When one repeat a lie enough, even one so...odd as a husband wanting to have sex with his wife is wrong, eventually it becomes reality...if you allow it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Created2Write said:


> The only one projecting is you, man. Your situation sucks, but it's no reason to tell another man that he was wrong for trying to do something nice for his wife. Something that had very little to do with sex, if it had anything to do with it at all. This plan wasn't some malicious scheme, like you keep making it out to be.
> 
> And the fact that you continue to ignore the wife's responsibilities is a direct reflect of how your also ignore _your_ wife's responsibilities. Your advice has been some of the worst I've seen offered to anyone on this forum since I've joined. What you do in your marriage is your business. But don't act like it's the key for every marriage issue.


So my advice of having the OP analyze his motives is bad advice? My advice to have him look at his own reaction to his pregnant wife after her cancelling is bad advice?

Ok lets all put rose colored glasses on....and think happy thoughts.

The exchange that he has described between him and his wife and the words said are telling.

I don't think OP has looked in the mirror lately.
She called him childish..that the way she sees him. Competing for her affection with her kids.... how dare does he not involve them is her thinking. Hope its hormones for his sake... but it seems to me this may be more.

I have no bone to pick with the OP..just keen observation of his situation.


----------



## Grayson

Trying2figureitout said:


> So my advice of having the OP analyze his motives is bad advice? My advice to have him look at his own reaction to his pregnant wife after her cancelling is bad advice?
> 
> Ok lets all put rose colored glasses on....and think happy thoughts.
> 
> The exchange that he has described between him and his wife and the words said are telling.
> 
> I don't think OP has looked in the mirror lately.
> She called him childish..that the way she sees him. Competing for her affection with her kids.... how dare does he not involve them is her thinking. Hope its hormones for his sake... but it seems to me this may be more.


He shouldn't have to compete with their child for his wife's affection. Both should be on the receiving end of her affection. How dare he no include their child in each and every moment of everything they do? Seriously? Not to mention that he _asked her before making the plans, and got the to-ahead_!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Grayson said:


> He shouldn't have to compete with their child for his wife's affection. Both should be on the receiving end of her affection. How dare he no include their child in each and every moment of everything they do? Seriously?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what his wife is thinking. Is it correct no. He has shown her before he is childish in the way he reacts.

Their whole dynamic needs work. His wife isn't here he is... she would get an earful too.

Look at the words she used...go back and read.
She is pregnant and his reaction just ruined her birthday... that a big hole to dig out of.
Can't believe I'm the only one who sees it at face value.

This isn't just about the planned trip... this all goes back a ways.


----------



## Wiserforit

> So my advice of having the OP analyze his motives is bad advice? My advice to have him look at his own reaction to his pregnant wife after her cancelling is bad advice?


Minimizing what you are doing, which is not the above - and you know it.

You have not advised looking. You have heaped scorn. Manipulative people act like this and then tell the people who are watching them not to believe what their eyes are seeing. In the last post you went right back to issuing ad hominems. Saying he is childish. 

Our eyes are working just fine.


----------



## Grayson

Trying2figureitout said:


> That's what his wife is thinking. Is it correct no. He has shown her before he is childish in the way he reacts.
> 
> Their whole dynamic needs work. His wife isn't here he is... she would get an earful too.
> 
> Look at the words she used...go back and read.
> *She is pregnant and his reaction just ruined her birthday*... that a big hole to dig out of.
> Can't believe I'm the only one who sees it at face value.


*His* reaction ruined her birthday?

*His* reaction?

So, _her_ reaction of backing out of plans at the last minute - plans she'd agreed to for months and that likely had a fairly significant cost - that played no part in ruining her birthday?

No...you're no the only one seeing it at face value. You're the only one seeing that face in a funhouse mirror, though.



> This isn't just about the planned trip... this all goes back a ways.


Of course it does.

Which is why he planned the frakkin' trip in the first place!

How's that for "face value?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Wiserforit said:


> Minimizing what you are doing, which is not the above - and you know it.
> 
> You have not advised looking. You have heaped scorn. Manipulative people act like this and then tell the people who are watching them not to believe what their eyes are seeing. In the last post you went right back to issuing ad hominems. Saying he is childish.
> 
> Our eyes are working just fine.


She stated he is childish... that makes it so.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Grayson said:


> *His* reaction ruined her birthday?
> 
> *His* reaction?
> 
> So, _her_ reaction of backing out of plans at the last minute - plans she'd agreed to for months and that likely had a fairly significant cost - that played no part in ruining her birthday?
> 
> No...you're no the only one seeing it at face value. You're the only one seeing that face in a funhouse mirror, though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You all are going off ONE SIDE of the story. Yes HIS reaction could have been much better to his pregnant wife.

You have to understand pregnant wives are not rational at all.


----------



## Grayson

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all are going off ONE SIDE of the story. Yes HIS reaction could have been much better.


So your answer is no, you don't think her last-minute cancellation of long-standing plans impacted her birthday at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Grayson said:


> So your answer is no, you don't think her last-minute cancellation of long-standing plans impacted her birthday at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Obviously it did.... you have to ask why it occurred though. Think it has to do with how his wife perceives him and his motives. she took a risk.


----------



## Grayson

With _her preceptions_ being all on her. She's chosen to not make him any kind of priority in her life for four years, obviously won't communicate with him clearly, has severe attachment issues regarding their daughter, and (apparently) lied to him for months about wanting to go on the trip.

But *he* ruined her birthday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wiserforit

Trying2figureitout said:


> She stated he is childish... that makes it so.


Blame shifting and refusal to acknowledge responsibility for your own actions is also manipulative.

You called him childish along with a lot of other ad hominems. His wife is not responsible for that. You are.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Wiserforit said:


> Blame shifting and refusal to acknowledge responsibility for your own actions is also manipulative.
> 
> You called him childish along with a lot of other ad hominems. His wife is not responsible for that. You are.


From original post...

"I told her that wasn't the point of the trip. She accused me of *acting childish and has ignored me since last night. *

Thoughts? Im pretty upset at the moment."


----------



## Grayson

Trying2figureitout said:


> From original post...
> 
> "I told her that wasn't the point of the trip. She accused me of *acting childish and has ignored me since last night. *
> 
> Thoughts? Im pretty upset at the moment."


Context can be your friend.

Unfortunately, it's missing here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveBeingFemale

Your wife is very fortunate to have a husband who makes plans for a weekend getaway. With that being said, it can be extremely difficult for us moms to spend time away from our children. It gets a little easier the older the kids get, but it can be downright difficult when they are little.


----------



## TRy

LoveBeingFemale said:


> Your wife is very fortunate to have a husband who makes plans for a weekend getaway. With that being said, it can be extremely difficult for us moms to spend time away from our children. It gets a little easier the older the kids get, but it can be downright difficult when they are little.


 If 4 years old is not old enough, then with current child now being 4 years old and another one just 3 months away, if they do not have a couples weekend now, it will be at least another 4 years before he can try again. At least 8 years of her not making him a priority is very dangerous for a marriage. It makes him more vulnerable to another woman that lets him know that she thinks that he should be a priority. Hopefully he does the right thing and can resist, but the wife is lowering the odds that he will. Just how good is it for the children? She is taking him for granted and gambling with the very existence of her marraige?

She should be glad that he still cares. Look out when he accepts that his happiness is not a priority in his marraige.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> Does a husband or wife need to do a psychological and market analysis to plan one simple week end??? What has happened in our culture, if this is as widespread as I think.
> 
> I see it as him making a very thoughtful get away for him and his wife in anticipation of the busy times ahead for both of them. And who says men don't plan or pay attention to details? "What a guy", that's what I thought when I read about what he planned.
> 
> And the expectation of sex, dah. That's a bad thing? He is a bad man for wanting to love his wife. I look at it this way. He loves her and misses her and wants to establish a closer connection before they get too busy. It's a celebration not a wake.
> 
> That's how I would put it to your wife. Any idea that you are somehow insensitive because you want to be alone and intimate with your wife is nuts in my mind. It simple, you planned a nice time for both of you and she blew it off like it was nothing. I am certain you would not have done that to her.
> 
> After this, I think it is important that you don't appear to apologize for being a man. I would state simply that she married a man and you remain so. You love and protect and provide and have kids and have sex together. You are also sensitive to her needs. Don't argue just state the obvious because she may have forgotten.
> 
> Then continue being a man and don't doubt. It's up to you to push her to be a woman in a firm and gentle way. Don't back down. If she will not follow, take it to the next level with MC. If she does not want to go you go. It's up to you, you can turn this around if you are convinced you are acting in the interest of your family and you are normal, if not better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

TRy said:


> If 4 years old is not old enough, then with current child now being 4 years old and another one just 3 months away, if they do not have a couples weekend now, it will be at least another 4 years before he can try again. At least 8 years of her not making him a priority is very dangerous for a marriage. It makes him more vulnerable to another woman that lets him know that she thinks that he should be a priority. Hopefully he does the right thing and can resist, but the wife is lowering the odds that he will. Just how good is it for the children? She is taking him for granted and gambling with the very existence of her marraige?
> 
> She should be glad that he still cares. Look out when he accepts that his happiness is not a priority in his marraige.


You do not put your marriage on hold to raise children. At best then that is when you see the last of a string of children leave the house and then you get a walk away wife. The guy "waits" until someday to get back to the marriage he thought he had before the first child. Sooo, you can end up being married for say 25 years trying to get back to what the marriage was the first year or two. Fools gold. 

If you cannot have a loving partnership while your raising your children you never will ... again. A couple can certainly up the energy when they become empty nesters. However, then come the grandchildren at some point. They are awesome as you can love them and then send them back to their parents. BUT, a wife can sink her whole life into grand kids as well. 

The children are better off when the marriage is number one. They should see how a loving couple treats each other. That is a tremendous gift to them. If a husband becomes a worker drone he becomes a hollow of a man. This is NOT a good example to his children. The wife becoming a worker drone for the children becomes hollow as well. Even worse is when the wife takes her free time and does not spend it with her husband but seeks out friends on non marriage friendly GNOs where the husband becomes a baby sitter while the wife is out getting attention form other men. Her husband starving for any intimacy from her. While she seeks such from other men. 

Marriage is about love and respect. It is about intimacy between wife and husband. A weekend getaway for the wife and husband is a gift to the marriage. No indeed it is the husbands responsibility to seek intimacy with his wife. Hers too with him. So a weekend away is a wonderful loving gift to her. Bonding with his wife is not a bad thing ... it is the freaking point of being married. A wife is not an incubator for banging out children. A husband is not a sperm donor. Children can be a wonderful side benefit of being married. They are not the main event.


----------



## dallasapple

In the OP's case SPECIFICALLY I see the not wanting to leave the child over night is not even the real issue.Its the bigger picture. Its the daily dynamics between her and him and the child.

If I am correct it sounds like just in general not because the child is physically there or "interupting" his wife shows a lack of interest in him including affection.And not much passion behind it when she does.You can show "non sexual' passionate affection in front of your children.It doesn't seem like she is doing that.The other problem again I don't think its not getting 'overnight AWAY (another location) it sounds like they aren't getting many (maybe not any?) over nighters (alone) in their OWN bed at home. And it seems their is no end in sight.IOW even if she took this weekend getaway the bigger issues are still at play.This trip to me would be more like the band aid on the gushing wound analogy.The serious issues are whats going on day to day at home.

She seems like the type too that would NOT be "relieved" once she got their and realize she really needed it.I picture her at best going through the motions to appease him just biding her time to get back to the little girl even resenting him for taking her away from her.

I think she has romantic intimacy issues.That the child didn't "cause" but rather made evident in her when she became a mother.Even a Madonna ***** complex or something.Especially if she was totally different before children.


----------



## dallasapple

> At least 8 years of her not making him a priority is very dangerous for a marriage.


A weekend away wont "fix it" if the problem is the other 363 days of the year she isn't putting enough priority on him .A weekend getaway even a few times a year wont make up for the lack of making him priority day in and day out and in general sounds like being more focussed on the children than him 2/7.

And yeah I think 4 years old can be old enough for most.But it sounds like she has trained or conditioned the child or "ensured" she would be somewhat traumatized not having mommy their for comfort even in the middle of the night.She has conditioned the child to need her available to her 24/7.Which is not fair to anyone including the little girl.She has made her insecure and fearful to even sleep alone all night.


----------



## DTO

MarriedTex said:


> You've made this a losing battle by tying this to her birthday. Ostensibly, that is something for her. Think of the sunk money into the get away as tuition for your lesson on how to handle your relationship better. A person should get to do what they want on their birthday. Obviously, she is uncomfortable leaving kid because you haven't built up to this over the past four years.


First of all, saying that this was a stab at nookie disguised as a birthday gift for her is a huge assumption. I for one did not see it this way.

Sure, you can argue this could have been timed better. But did you see the part about her being six months pregnant? This probably is the last major date / anniversary they will have to do this for the next several months if not a year or more.

What time period should he have retreated to? Next year when they have a kindergartener and an infant to care for?

You, unfortunately, are laughably off base on this. Dealing with her reluctance to go on this outing in the manner you suggest is solving the wrong problem. The root issue is her avoidance of his needs in this passive-aggressive manner, not that he feels compelled to deal with them now. I, for one, think that trying to reestablish the marriage relationship before the next child comes is a great idea.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

DTO said:


> First of all, saying that this was a stab at nookie disguised as a birthday gift for her is a huge assumption. I for one did not see it this way.
> 
> Sure, you can argue this could have been timed better. But did you see the part about her being six months pregnant? This probably is the last major date / anniversary they will have to do this for the next several months if not a year or more.
> 
> What time period should he have retreated to? Next year when they have a kindergartener and an infant to care for?


Oh yea... Lets ask the OP!

Did YOU intend the trip as a way to get sex by secluding your wife?

Was the trip more for you as she states?

We'll see if he's honest.
You all believe the OP I know better. He doesn't know his wife and what she wants.

OP already in fact admitted this by saying he learned a lesson... to ask her specifically what she wants... he assumed her wants or acceptance of said gift and it was mainly to serve him. to get laid without the kids in the mix.

Not that that's a bad thing. I would plan an alone trip also for that very purpose...but not on my wife's birthday as that is her day and I actually look at it from her perspective not mine.


----------



## daffodilly

Trying2figureitout said:


> You have to understand pregnant wives are not rational at all.


:lol::rofl: Gotta love ignorant blanket statements.

OP's wife is the childish one in my opinion. I get that she loves her daughter. She should love her daughter enough to give her THE BEST GIFT you can give to any child....a home with parents who are in a stable, loving marriage. That means putting your husband and marriage as a first priority. Just ask any child from divorced parents.


----------



## dallasapple

> You do not put your marriage on hold to raise children.


I don't think not going on an occassional weekend getaway is = to putting your marriage on hold.Weekend getaways can be nice..but the marriage is an everyday relationship.IOW you can take a weekend getaway and still be neglecting your marriage overall.

As a matter of example..My sister and her husband they did not have any children to even get away from.He however was a workaholic.Although they took FREQUENT trips(Aruba /Costa Rica/Nicauragua /they had a big boat (small yacht ) that they took on the lake for weekend trips etc.. .. but on a day to day basis she felt lonely and disconnected from him.He was fine with it he put his work above her though and the marriage did not survive regardless of these "getaways"..

Their marriage maybe would have survived with NO weekend getaways "couple trips" if he had put more priority on her Mon/Sunday at home.


----------



## DTO

Thound said:


> I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away.


Even if this were the case, which it does not seem to be, my response is "so what?".

IOW, the real issue is not why does he expect sex on this mini-vacation (if he indeed does). The real issue (for him and for you too) is why does his wife place so little value on their relationship and her responsibility as his wife that she finds it acceptable to avoid his needs.

Seriously, she's six months along - not 39 weeks. Unless she has some undisclosed medical issue, there is no reason she can't provide well for his needs. She might not prefer to have sex with him, but that's no excuse - even while pregnant.


----------



## dallasapple

DTO said:


> Even if this were the case, which it does not seem to be, my response is "so what?".
> 
> IOW, the real issue is not why does he expect sex on this mini-vacation (if he indeed does). The real issue (for him and for you too) is why does his wife place so little value on their relationship and her responsibility as his wife that she finds it acceptable to avoid his needs.
> 
> Seriously, she's six months along - not 39 weeks. Unless she has some undisclosed medical issue, there is no reason she can't provide well for his needs. She might not prefer to have sex with him, but that's no excuse - even while pregnant.


But you dont have to "leave home" to provide for each others wants and desires/ to show love .Not only that he the OP never said they never have sex.I dont think this is about sex.Its more about from what I am gathering her not giving him much attention overall period.


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> Regardless of how others are perfectly happy /o.k to leave their young children for an over nighter with their husband(and I was one of them my husband and I even had our parents keep them over night many times just even so we could stay home alone and have a "get away" at home ) any way my point is it doesn't matter how much we would LOVE the OP's gift for OUR b-day.
> 
> The fact is he knows his wife is not happy to do that.He said the one time she has she cried the whole time and kept calling to check on the child.That's already a known to him.That for whatever her reasons that is how she FEELS.Thats why I do find it kind of an "odd" thing to do ..to offer that as HER b-day present.I don't know why she agreed to it in the first place but its obvious she couldn't bring herself to do it when it came time.She is lying about the "don't have time to pack" I know that much.If she REALLY wanted to go she would throw her bad together and even get there late or whatever.
> 
> Anyway I think that is why she made the comment about it really being "for you "..How could it be for her when you know she hates being away from your little girl and hasn't but for one time in years?AND it sounds caused her emotional distress?And it sounds like something you have complained about in the past?
> 
> It would be like if I had a deep /morbid even fear of water.But my husband would love to live in the water if he could.Arranged for my b-day to take both of us on a scuba diving trip.And I knew it was something he REALLY wanted to do with me I might suck it up and even agree...I could see myself getting more and more nervous/fearful as the time approached and making up some BS excuse why I couldn't.And when he got pissed off me telling him what I really felt is that "it wasn't for me anyway".


I hear where you are coming from, but I don't think it's that cut and dried.

I feel very strongly, based on what I've read, that the OP has been minimized by his wife in favor of (1) her child and probably (2) herself. That is a huge problem and needs to be resolved now, not later. Her being six months pregnant does not mean she is excused from meeting his needs or from being held accountable if she does not. OTOH, having a newborn will make it huge difficult if not impossible to improve the situation.

I think his approach (taking time to reconnect) is the best choice under the current circumstances. Your suggestion (to wait) is really a poor choice here because it means that he likely will have to wait for a year (or more) before bringing this issue to the fore again. Waiting that long for a connection to his wife is unreasonable.

We don't know why he did not resolve this before conceiving a second child. But, at this point, that ship has sailed; he's making the best of the current situation. If my hunch is right, this marriage is at the point where serious and lasting damage (from having his needs neglected) are a real possibility, and that is what he's trying to avoid.


----------



## mablenc

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all are going off ONE SIDE of the story. Yes HIS reaction could have been much better to his pregnant wife.
> 
> You have to understand pregnant wives are not rational at all.


What!!!!! Says who???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dallasapple

> I think his approach (taking time to reconnect) is the best choice under the current circumstances. Your suggestion (to wait) is really a poor choice here because it means that he likely will have to wait for a year (or more) before bringing this issue to the fore again. Waiting that long for a connection to his wife is unreasonable.


What I'm saying now after reading more about their relationship going on a getaway will not a long term connection make.In fact it wont make for a long term connection for ANYONE.The re-connect needs to be on some sort of daily basis not once every 6 months even for a "get away".Like I said in my other post for his situation a weekend getaway would be like a band aid on a gushing wound.I don't see it miraculously changing her overall daily "non connect" with him.


----------



## dallasapple

> But, at this point, that ship has sailed; he's making the best of the current situation. If my hunch is right, this marriage is at the point where serious and lasting damage (from having his needs neglected) are a real possibility, and that is what he's trying to avoid.


What I'm saying is a weekend get away with his situation all be it I'm sure a temporary relief I don't see it as a solution to avoid the serious damage you are referring to.The damage is happening the other 363 days of the year and unless that changes this trip would only be a drop in the bucket so to speak.


----------



## dallasapple

> Another important thing is that we've spent ONE night alone away from our daughter in almost 4 years. During that night my wife cried and called home because she missed her.


Also this.I don't get how that is even really a "get away".The problem is his wifes mind frame not the daughter being physically there or not.How can you reconnect with someone who is only physically there but their mind is completely somewhere else?The problem is not about physically getting away.Or else this would not be a complaint of his.


----------



## DTO

Created2Write said:


> Booyah! Frederick's of Hollywood, here I come!
> 
> Actually, I can't understand why she wouldn't be okay with it. They've only been out for a night alone ONCE in four years, he told her about this well in advance, they discussed it more than once, his parents were watching the kids...
> 
> There is no issue here, except with _her_. He did everything right. There wasn't anything else he could have done. She had every opportunity to tell him, "I don't want to go", and she CHOSE to save it until the last minute. I would bet she waited until the last minute on purpose. I mean, she hadn't even packed! The woman _intentionally_ ruined her husbands romantic plans.
> 
> MESSED UP. Cruel.


Exactly. There seems to be a shared sense that the OP being neglected by his wife. I would add to that and say she may have dangled the prospect of future alone time to get the pressure off of her, then bailed out on the trip when the time came.


----------



## DTO

jd08 said:


> Tomorrow's plans (tentative)
> 
> Fundraising breakfast with family
> 
> Movie with wife
> 
> Shopping with wife
> 
> Home
> 
> Tonight she asked me what I WANTED to do tomorrow. I told her it was HER birthday and got a blank stare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, this is a huge problem. It tells me that she is very used to having her wants and needs as the paradigm for activity and interaction. So instead of her being selfish for thinking along those lines, you are the a-hole for not cheerfully molding your expectations to fit within her world view.

So, she sh!t on your weekend away (intentionally), spent the day being doted on, and then when you reject the crumbs she has thrown you, she's the one who's offended (the blank stare)?

Your relationship has real issues. Your reality is that either she finds a way to be a good wife to you on top of being a good mother to two young children, or your marriage will at some point deteriorate to an unsustainable level.

It seems like a bad tiem to face that reality, and it is. But you can bet her selfishness and self-care will not diminish once the second child comes. What will happen is your needs will get pushed ever further into the background.

It sucks to say this, but you might have to have the serious talk about the future of your relationship if she continues to put herself at the pinnacle. If push comes to shove she may stop stringing you along and admit there's an issue (which would be great, because you can only address it once it's acknowledged).

On the other hand, she might admit that you are not a priority and she sees you as a support system for her and a father to her children, and that's it. Honestly, that's a real possibility, because many women do that once children come along. It would suck to hear that, but you will be far better off knowing how she really feels, so that you can act accordingly. Trust me.


----------



## Entropy3000

dallasapple said:


> A weekend away wont "fix it" if the problem is the other 363 days of the year she isn't putting enough priority on him .A weekend getaway even a few times a year wont make up for the lack of making him priority day in and day out and in general sounds like being more focussed on the children than him 2/7.
> 
> *It is called a start. Dating once a week is a good idea. Going on a weekend getaway often is as well. But it starts with the first one.
> *
> And yeah I think 4 years old can be old enough for most.But it sounds like she has trained or conditioned the child or "ensured" she would be somewhat traumatized not having mommy their for comfort even in the middle of the night.She has conditioned the child to need her available to her 24/7.Which is not fair to anyone including the little girl.She has made her insecure and fearful to even sleep alone all night.
> 
> *I agree that she is damaging her marriage and her child by her behavior.*


----------



## Entropy3000

dallasapple said:


> I don't think not going on an occassional weekend getaway is = to putting your marriage on hold.Weekend getaways can be nice..but the marriage is an everyday relationship.IOW you can take a weekend getaway and still be neglecting your marriage overall.
> 
> As a matter of example..My sister and her husband they did not have any children to even get away from.He however was a workaholic.Although they took FREQUENT trips(Aruba /Costa Rica/Nicauragua /they had a big boat (small yacht ) that they took on the lake for weekend trips etc.. .. but on a day to day basis she felt lonely and disconnected from him.He was fine with it he put his work above her though and the marriage did not survive regardless of these "getaways"..
> 
> Their marriage maybe would have survived with NO weekend getaways "couple trips" if he had put more priority on her Mon/Sunday at home.


Indeed you do not. But this is NOT just one incident. It is not about one weekend. She is not wanting to do this on any weekend. Her not going on a weekend getaway at all with her husband is the issue. And is for sure putting her marriage on hold. This one situation is just part of a string of threads of abusive behavior from his wife. 

This is not like they regularly go on weekend getaways. She has retreated into mommyland and is digging herself deeper in there. He is tring to get one on one time with his wife.

Instigation
Isolation
Escalation

He seeks isolation with his wife. This is part of intimacy. 

He is trying to take the wife out from her isolation from him. Ineed her day to day treatment of him is not healthy.


----------



## DTO

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thats you not most women.
> 
> The truth.
> 
> We''ll check back in a few years when your libido drops and see if this statement holds true.


Hi Trying,

I'm pretty sure someone has tried to address what I'm about to say to you in the past, but I'm going to try again anyways.

Just because your wife is very LD, ND, or sex averse; does not mean all women are that way.

Look, I truly feel for you. I too had a wife that strove to get what she wanted out of me. We went completely sexless for 1/4 of our marriage, and much of the rest was around once a month. There was absolutely no sustained sexual relationship (other than conceiving our children, which doesn't count), regardless of how much she got from me - ever - in nearly 16 years of marriage.

IMO, you are trying to rationalize your refusal to demand better from your wife (or just moving on) in part by convincing yourself that it would not be better with someone else. If you choose to operate under this assumption, that is your choice. But, don't spread that B.S. around and potentially make other people believe it too.


----------



## Entropy3000

Thound said:


> I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away. Pick a different time other than her bday. You are right in wanting quality time together before the baby is born. I'm telling you about the bday thing because I made the same mistake myself. It would akin to her getting you a sewing machine for your bday. Please understand I meant no disrespect, I just see things differently. I hope things work out for you, you seem like a good guy.


WTH? What in the world is wrong with a sex / intimicay get away? They are freaking married!!! Marriage is an ongoing sexual relationship. What is wrong with taking your wife on a sex get away!! OMG. But indeed getting away is about spending quality time together. 

Wow, some folks I confess are creeping me out here. How in the world is what he is trying to do a bad thing? And if you say it is because she does not ewant a sexual relationship with her husband, the father of her two children I have to say that that is the abberation. That is the abuse. 

He is not proposing a threesome for her. He is not going away with another woman. Seriously those that argue against this have a really skewed view of marriage to me. Sorry, is a couple not supposed to have romantice getaways? No? Wow. How very very sad.

So getaway is akin to getting a sewing machine? Who would want to be married to such a woman!? Sorry, this is just nuckenfutts.


----------



## Grayson

Trying2figureitout said:


> Oh yea... Lets ask the OP!
> 
> Did YOU intend the trip as a way to get sex by secluding your wife?
> 
> Was the trip more for you as she states?
> 
> We'll see if he's honest.


Way to set up a no-win for him.

He says he did, you crow about his ulterior motives.

He says he didn't, you claim he's lying.



> You all believe the OP I know better. He doesn't know his wife and what she wants.
> 
> OP already in fact admitted this by saying he learned a lesson... to ask her specifically what she wants... he assumed her wants or acceptance of said gift


Except (once more, with feeling) _he *did* ask her before making the plans and she said she'd like it_.



> and it was mainly to serve him. to get laid without the kids in the mix.
> 
> Not that that's a bad thing. I would plan an alone trip also for that very purpose...but not on my wife's birthday as that is her day and I actually look at it from her perspective not mine.


And what part of *asking before making the plans* doesn't take her perspective into account?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dallasapple

[QUOTEWTF? What in the owrld is wrong with a sex / intimicay get away? They are freaking married!!! Marriage is a sexual relationship. What is wrong with taking your wife on a sex get away!! OMG.][/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is suggesting their is anything wrong with it.But if you have a wife that has intimacy issues don't be surprised if she doesn't see a weekend sex getaway as any kind of b-day present FOR HER.


----------



## Entropy3000

dallasapple said:


> What I'm saying now after reading more about their relationship going on a getaway will not a long term connection make.In fact it wont make for a long term connection for ANYONE.The re-connect needs to be on some sort of daily basis not once every 6 months even for a "get away".Like I said in my other post for his situation a weekend getaway would be like a band aid on a gushing wound.I don't see it miraculously changing her overall daily "non connect" with him.


It is like putting direct pressure on a gushing wound. You have to stop the bleeding. It is an emergency and time for a trip to the emergency room. You have to jump start this intimacy. They need to be regularly be taking time together. Going on dates and so on. 

It is the first step. This is like learning. It is like exercising. It takes a focus to get things sarted. He needs to take her out of this day to day environment to get one on one time with her. The fact she is soooo resistent says she cannot have a day to day relationship with him. She chooses to flat ignore him. She should be all excited about spending alone time with him.

I think he should be commended for trying to make his marriage work and not be unfaithful to her or divorcing her. He also loves his children so he will want to work on his marriage. She is not being a good wife.


----------



## DTO

that_girl said:


> And the MIL just added fuel to the fire. Wtf. "Oh NO! Your husband wanted to take you away for your BIRTHDAY!? OMG The NERVE!! Come stay with me...leave him at home."


Agreed. The MIL's attitude tends to explain the wife's.

OP, I can totally see your MIL helping your wife plot against you, should your marriage come to that. You need to get a lawyer to sort out your rights and protect yourself in case your wife decides she's better off without you.


----------



## Entropy3000

dallasapple said:


> [QUOTEWTF? What in the owrld is wrong with a sex / intimicay get away? They are freaking married!!! Marriage is a sexual relationship. What is wrong with taking your wife on a sex get away!! OMG.]


I don't think anyone is suggesting their is anything wrong with it.But if you have a wife that has intimacy issues don't be surprised if she doesn't see a weekend sex getaway as any kind of b-day present FOR HER.[/QUOTE]

He is trying to work on those intimacy issues.

Look, he could give her a card and dinner and say happy birthday. Instead he was giving her a weekend getaway. She is refusing his gift of his time with her. That is messed up. He is offering her his full attention. If she does not value this she needs some serious help.

I guess we can say that when a weekend getaway in a marriage is not a good present the marriage is dying.


----------



## dallasapple

> You have to jump start this intimacy.


I'm just saying bringing her out of town will not necessarilly result in ANY increased intimacy between them let alone jump start it even if they physically "have sex'. Which according to some of his older post it seems they have sex currently around once a week.I think that is why he himself objected to the idea the trip was "for sex" ..the already have "the sex".And still intimacy is lacking because just "having sex" does not make for intimacy .


----------



## dallasapple

> She is refusing his gift of his time with her.


She refuses his gift of time with her when its not her b-day.Sounds like ongoingly .Better yet she witholds HER gift of time with him .That is the problem..


----------



## dallasapple

> If she does not value this she needs some serious help.


She DOESNT value it thats the point.I think he already knows that based on her routine attitude..Why did he think suddenly what she does not value all year long would be this huge "gift to her" (from HER persepective) full of "value "on her b-day as a b-day "gift"?She doesnt consider it a gift in the first place for any occasion.


----------



## DTO

that_girl said:


> That needs to be nipped, but hell if I know how.


Ultimatum. He will be treated better by his wife, or he's prepared to move on and be with his kids only 50% of the time. He, as a thoughtful guy, probably won't have a problem finding someone on whom to spend his time and attention.

She won't find a quality guy to put up with that treatment from her. She can work on prioritizing his needs as equal to hers, or she can start at ground zero with someone else, or she can forego relationships and be strictly a mom. Her choice.

She might not like it, but she definitely won't screw with him like that again.


----------



## dallasapple

> or she can forego relationships and be strictly a mom. Her choice.


That's what I would advise her.Oh strictly a mom and a daughter.Her closest relationship besides her children is her mother.


----------



## Grayson

dallasapple said:


> She refuses his gift of time with her when its not her b-day.Sounds like ongoingly .Better yet she witholds HER gift of time with him .That is the problem..


Your implication here seems to be that, because she ignores him already, he shouldn't try to change that.

It has to start SOMEwhere, and a special occasion (in this case, her birthday) is as good a time as any. Special occasions are less likely to lead to excuses to avoid it than day-to-day life. Clearly, based on her rejection at the last minute, it's not impossible.

As much as I hate using the word "ultimatum," it might be about time for one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dallasapple

> Your implication here seems to be that, because she ignores him already, he shouldn't try to change that.


No I'm not saying that..I'm saying IMHO one weekend away with him isn't going to cut the mustard.And besides that..she wont even go with him .I mean "hello" obviously that's not the answer.

Whats next? If you wont go on a "relaxing weekend get away with me " I will get a divorce? 

They need to start on the daily dynamics.Including getting their 4 yo out of the bed with them.That is where I would start.


----------



## dallasapple

> It has to start SOMEwhere, and a special occasion (in this case, her birthday) is as good a time as any.


I submit its not even a 'start" let alone as good a time as any in his circumstances.How is it a "start" to go away for two days (that is if she will even agree to it) while she pouts and cries and calls home to check on the daughter?Then returns to status quo the minute they get back?


----------



## Created2Write

JCD said:


> To be fair, Created2Write, HIS WIFE, is ignoring HER responsibilities. He's just letting her.
> 
> When one repeat a lie enough, even one so...odd as a husband wanting to have sex with his wife is wrong, eventually it becomes reality...if you allow it.


Granted, yes. Your wording is more accurate. Thank you.


----------



## jd08

I hope you dont treat your husband this way when he makes a well-meaning gesture. I mean damn, from your responses you would think I asked her to have a threesome or do heroin.

I'm ok with disagreement but you are taking to new levels by starting a separate thread to defend your position and belittle my idea of trying to improve my marriage. Beyond that you've offered little or no constructive advice. Why is this so personal to you?



dallasapple said:


> No I'm not saying that..I'm saying IMHO one weekend away with him isn't going to cut the mustard.And besides that..she wont even go with him .I mean "hello" obviously that's not the answer.


----------



## dallasapple

> I hope you dont treat your husband this way when he makes a well-meaning gesture. I mean damn, from your responses you would think I asked her to have a threesome or do heroin.


No I don't think you did the equivelant to those I think SHE percieves it that way ..hence why it wont help.

Your wife was the one not happy and even insulted you wanted that for her b-day not me.Please don't take your wife's ongoing disinterest in you out on me.


----------



## dallasapple

[QUOTEI'm ok with disagreement but you are taking to new levels by starting a separate thread to defend your position and belittle my idea of trying to improve my marriage. Beyond that you've offered little or no constructive advice. Why is this so personal to you?
][/QUOTE]

OMG your blurred..My other thread wasn't about YOU ..it was takign the ideas IN GENERAL that every single couple no matter how GREAT their relationship is NEEDS to spend overnight away from kids to keep connected or that ANY woman that doesnt want to leave her kids overnight has /is neglecting her husband.

I made a separate thread because it WASN"T about you and your relationship what I wanted to discuss..It was IN GENERAL..

NOT every woman who wont leave her kids over night is a NEGLECTFUL cold disentersted wife..not every couple HAS to get away over night to stay connected..Thats why I started a DIFFERENT thread on the topic..Its clear as day if you take off YOUR BLINDERS.

YOU dont OWN the topic of couples and having alone time!I was trying not to derail YOUR thread away from YOUR specific issues to an IN general discussion ..

And yours and your wifes issues are WAY beyond needing an overnighter in my opinion ..

ITS your DAY to DAY...


----------



## DTO

Trying2figureitout said:


> That's what his wife is thinking. Is it correct no. He has shown her before he is childish in the way he reacts.
> 
> Their whole dynamic needs work. His wife isn't here he is... she would get an earful too.
> 
> Look at the words she used...go back and read.
> She is pregnant and his reaction just ruined her birthday... that a big hole to dig out of.
> Can't believe I'm the only one who sees it at face value.
> 
> This isn't just about the planned trip... this all goes back a ways.


I see where you are coming from (surprisingly), but I don't agree with what you feel should be consequences.

You are saying that he ruined her birthday (in her eyes) - that's fair enough. But, you are saying that leaves him a hold to dig out of. That's where you are out of step with the group on this.

I (and many others) are saying just the opposite - that he needs to not dig out of this hole. He should not even try. Rather, she needs to know that this will be one bad / lonely day among many if she fails to be more considerate of his needs.

We generally agree she has issues. The problem with your approach is that it takes her perspective as a given. You are solving the wrong problem by insisting he work around her issues at any cost. And, IMO, that attitude comes from your attitude that saving the current relationship at any cost should be the goal. In fact, he has other options available to him and he should keep that in mind when working through this.


----------



## dallasapple

> I hope you dont treat your husband this way when he makes a well-meaning gesture.


No I dont..but I also dont treat my husband the way YOUR wife does you EVERY DAY and NIGHT..Which is what I'm saying is your PROBLEM not .."getting a weekend away".


----------



## DTO

Trying2figureitout said:


> Obviously it did.... you have to ask why it occurred though. Think it has to do with how his wife perceives him and his motives. she took a risk.


It's more likely she is selfish and just manipulating him to her advantage. Yeah, she figured he wanted sex. You are saying that creates a reasonable cause for her backing out of the trip. The rest of us are saying her not wanting sex is a sh!tty excuse for not wanting to go.

Moreover, her being pregnant does not excuse her from being a good wife to him.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> So my advice of having the OP analyze his motives is bad advice?


No. It's great advice. The issue is that when he DID analyze his motives and he said that he didn't make the trip to have sex, you kept insisting that he was lying, that he was fooling himself, that he was being selfish, etc. THAT is the issue. We all should analyze our motives when issues arise in our relationships. 



> My advice to have him look at his own reaction to his pregnant wife after her cancelling is bad advice?


No. It's great advice. The issue is that when he DID look at his reaction and found nothing wrong with it, you kept insisting that he reacted hatefully, that he was being selfish again, that he wasn't considering how she felt, etc. THAT is the issue. Because you're implying that he had no right to be upset, when he had absolutely every right to be mad. You may think that wives should be given absolute freedom in their relationships, and should be allowed to walk all over their husbands, and that the husbands should just sit and take it, but I think everyone else here would agree that that line of thinking is dangerously unhealthy. 



> Ok lets all put rose colored glasses on....and think happy thoughts.


Where are the happy thoughts here? Where are the rose colored glasses other than on your own eyes? Let's examine what happened:

Husband thinks of a great weekend trip idea for his wife's birthday. Knowing that they've only been away together once in four years, he figures it might help them reconnect emotionally without their daughter there to distract his wife. Especially with another baby on the way, this could be their last chance to get some good, quality one-on-one time for the next few years. But, remembering that the last time they went away she cried the whole time, he double checks with her before paying for the condo. She hears about the idea and says she would love to go. (This is months in advance) He plans the trip, and makes sure to check with her often over the course of the next few months, to see if she still wants to go. She continues to say that yes, she wants to go; that she's excited for it. The _*day they were meant to leave*_ he comes home from work expecting her to be packed, only to find that she isn't packed and that she has suddenly last all desire to go, and now has a bunch of excuses. 

Where's the happiness, exactly? Where are the rose colored glasses supposed to be? 



> The exchange that he has described between him and his wife and the words said are telling.


Really? Which exchange are you referring to? The one when she asked him what he wanted to do, and he said "Whatever you want; it's YOUR birthday"? 



> I don't think OP has looked in the mirror lately.


The only one who NEEDS to look in the mirror is you. 



> She called him childish..that the way she sees him. Competing for her affection with her kids.... how dare does he not involve them is her thinking. Hope its hormones for his sake... but it seems to me this may be more.


The only reason he even HAS to compete for her affection is because SHE refuses to give it to him! It's not that he doesn't WANT their daughter to be on the trip, it's that she CAN'T be there. If the daughter goes on the trip, his wife will give ALL of her attention to their daughter. 

A marriage can't survive when a wife won't give her husband any attention and vice versa. 



> I have no bone to pick with the OP..just keen observation of his situation.


Maybe you should focus on YOUR marriage and get a keen observation of it instead?


----------



## jd08

I think you are under the misunderstanding that this trip was a last ditch effort of sorts to try and save my marriage. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, her response and the timing of the response did far more damage than not going on the trip itself. The message that sent to me was "time alone with you is not important and neither are your feelings." I planned the trip for US because I wanted some time with my wife before the baby was born. I didn't plan it to resuscitate a near dead marriage, so get that idea out of your head. 

The reason we have problems is not that we didn't go on a trip together. It's that she puts her feelings above our marriage. I'm under no illusion that all of our problems would have been solved in two days. However, I think not wanting to spend this short time away with one's spouse without children is surely an indicator of an even larger issue which makes all "normal" efforts at repairing a marriage seem obsolete. 



dallasapple said:


> No I don't think you did the equivelant to those I think SHE percieves it that way ..hence why it wont help.
> 
> Your wife was the one not happy and even insulted you wanted that for her b-day not me.Please don't take your wife's ongoing disinterest in you out on me.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> That's what his wife is thinking. Is it correct no. He has shown her before he is childish in the way he reacts.
> 
> Their whole dynamic needs work. His wife isn't here he is... she would get an earful too.
> 
> Look at the words she used...go back and read.
> She is pregnant and his reaction just ruined her birthday... that a big hole to dig out of.
> Can't believe I'm the only one who sees it at face value.
> 
> This isn't just about the planned trip... this all goes back a ways.


SHE ruined her birthday by canceling the trip on the day they planned to go.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all are going off ONE SIDE of the story. Yes HIS reaction could have been much better to his pregnant wife.
> 
> *You have to understand pregnant wives are not rational at all.*


Oh, so it's the pregnancy that makes her innocent? So would you condone a pregnant wife cheating on her husband? I mean, if pregnant women "are not rational at all", then she can't be held accountable for her actions, right?

I'm beginning to understand why your marriage is the way it is.


----------



## dallasapple

> Yeah, she figured he wanted sex.


My understanding is they HAVE sex so SEX isnt the problem.Its her overall more "focus" on the little girl in general..Including she trained the daughter to not be able to sleep all night by herself .She gets IN THE bed with them..But the overall problem is his wife's lack of attention on him..all I was saying a "weekened away" as you can see she wouldnt even DO is really just indicitive of the WHOLE "day to day" problem with her and even if he had given her an ultimatum to do that (go away) that would not have "solved" anything .He would have gotten 48 hours with a woman coerced to be with him then back home to the status quo..


----------



## dallasapple

Its a lie and an insult that "pregnant women are not rational at all".


----------



## dallasapple

> I think you are under the misunderstanding that this trip was a last ditch effort of sorts to try and save my marriage.


NOOOO>..Im not ..others ...your buddies who you are agreeing with while you are getting upset with me are..MANY have said it is a "jump start" or a place to begin again ...etc..Even the analogy that it is is 'direct pressure on a bleeding wound like going to the "emergency room"..all I did was argue back that it wont work to others here claiming it WAS some sort of emergency effort.


----------



## Created2Write

Entropy3000 said:


> You do not put your marriage on hold to raise children. At best then that is when you see the last of a string of children leave the house and then you get a walk away wife. The guy "waits" until someday to get back to the marriage he thought he had before the first child. Sooo, you can end up being married for say 25 years trying to get back to what the marriage was the first year or two. Fools gold.
> 
> If you cannot have a loving partnership while your raising your children you never will ... again. A couple can certainly up the energy when they become empty nesters. However, then come the grandchildren at some point. They are awesome as you can love them and then send them back to their parents. BUT, a wife can sink her whole life into grand kids as well.
> 
> The children are better off when the marriage is number one. They should see how a loving couple treats each other. That is a tremendous gift to them. If a husband becomes a worker drone he becomes a hollow of a man. This is NOT a good example to his children. The wife becoming a worker drone for the children becomes hollow as well. Even worse is when the wife takes her free time and does not spend it with her husband but seeks out friends on non marriage friendly GNOs where the husband becomes a baby sitter while the wife is out getting attention form other men. Her husband starving for any intimacy from her. While she seeks such from other men.
> 
> Marriage is about love and respect. It is about intimacy between wife and husband. A weekend getaway for the wife and husband is a gift to the marriage. No indeed it is the husbands responsibility to seek intimacy with his wife. Hers too with him. So a weekend away is a wonderful loving gift to her. Bonding with his wife is not a bad thing ... it is the freaking point of being married. A wife is not an incubator for banging out children. A husband is not a sperm donor. Children can be a wonderful side benefit of being married. They are not the main event.


YES!

And, obviously, the kind of relationship between children and parents, and husbands and wives, are very different; children are dependent on their parents for food, love, attention, shelter, protection, etc. But husbands and wives are _also_ dependent on each other for sexual gratification, romantic attention and affection, etc. One relationship does not negate the importance of the other. And the outcome of a marriage absolutely 100% effects the outcome of a child's relationship with his/her parents. 

The marriage MUST be number one.


----------



## Created2Write

Trying2figureitout said:


> Oh yea... Lets ask the OP!
> 
> Did YOU intend the trip as a way to get sex by secluding your wife?
> 
> Was the trip more for you as she states?
> 
> We'll see if he's honest.
> You all believe the OP I know better. He doesn't know his wife and what she wants.
> 
> OP already in fact admitted this by saying he learned a lesson... to ask her specifically what she wants... he assumed her wants or acceptance of said gift and it was mainly to serve him. to get laid without the kids in the mix.
> 
> Not that that's a bad thing. I would plan an alone trip also for that very purpose...but not on my wife's birthday as that is her day and I actually look at it from her perspective not mine.


Right. Because you have a picture perfect marriage where your wife loves and respects you, and the rest of us couldn't possibly have any understanding of what's going on. Plus, you know more about the OP's marriage than he even does! You have some gift of seeing directly into his wife's thoughts and feelings, and you can magically tell that the OP is lying. 

Right.


----------



## Created2Write

daffodilly said:


> :lol::rofl: Gotta love ignorant blanket statements.
> 
> OP's wife is the childish one in my opinion. I get that she loves her daughter. She should love her daughter enough to give her THE BEST GIFT you can give to any child....a home with parents who are in a stable, loving marriage. That means putting your husband and marriage as a first priority. Just ask any child from divorced parents.


WONDERFUL post.


----------



## dallasapple

> The reason we have problems is not that we didn't go on a trip together. It's that she puts her feelings above our marriage. I'm under no illusion that all of our problems would have been solved in two days. However, I think not wanting to spend this short time away with one's spouse without children is surely an indicator of an even larger issue which makes all "normal" efforts at repairing a marriage seem obsolete.


Exactly..that ALL I have been trying to say.Except "normal efforts" aren't "obsolete" ..it just means efforts big and small point to the same problem..but that even if the "big effort " was "agreed to " and followed through on her end would not have "fixed" the day to day "normalcy"..Her going on this weekend trip is all I'm saying wouldn't make up for the day to day NON effort for the next several years.


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> But you dont have to "leave home" to provide for each others wants and desires/ to show love .Not only that he the OP never said they never have sex.I dont think this is about sex.Its more about from what I am gathering her not giving him much attention overall period.


I totally agree with you. I honestly see his attempt to put this vacation together as an attempt to reconnect before life speeds up again. His next attempt might be having a serious talk about the future of the relationship, or worse.

I've been in his shoes, and had my overtures at connection rejected. So, I know how it goes.


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> What I'm saying now after reading more about their relationship going on a getaway will not a long term connection make.In fact it wont make for a long term connection for ANYONE.The re-connect needs to be on some sort of daily basis not once every 6 months even for a "get away".Like I said in my other post for his situation a weekend getaway would be like a band aid on a gushing wound.I don't see it miraculously changing her overall daily "non connect" with him.


Agreed. But it has to start somewhere. And he's making the best possible attempt to make some sort of connection given the current circumstances.


----------



## Created2Write

Entropy3000 said:


> WTH? What in the world is wrong with a sex / intimicay get away? They are freaking married!!! Marriage is an ongoing sexual relationship. What is wrong with taking your wife on a sex get away!! OMG. But indeed getting away is about spending quality time together.
> 
> Wow, some folks I confess are creeping me out here. How in the world is what he is trying to do a bad thing? And if you say it is because she does not ewant a sexual relationship with her husband, the father of her two children I have to say that that is the abberation. That is the abuse.
> 
> He is not proposing a threesome for her. He is not going away with another woman. Seriously those that argue against this have a really skewed view of marriage to me. Sorry, is a couple not supposed to have romantice getaways? No? Wow. How very very sad.
> 
> So getaway is akin to getting a sewing machine? Who would want to be married to such a woman!? Sorry, this is just nuckenfutts.


Thank you! Yes! 

And something I think others are ignoring: if his wife had been decent enough to pay attention to him for the last four years, he likely wouldn't have felt the need to plan a getaway trip, and so she wouldn't have had to entertain the idea of being separated from their daughter for the weekend! This is ALL *her* doing. She has created this entire situation single-handedly.


----------



## dallasapple

> I honestly see his attempt to put this vacation together as an attempt to reconnect before life speeds up again.


I guess how I see it is that it has never "slowed down" (not for him anyway) in the first place since #1..#2 I see is just making it go faster than it is now.

SHE needs to figure out she can be a good mother and a good wife..Thats why I suspected maybe she has some sort of Madonna ***** complex..And I don't think one weekend away would even begin to address her issues.Especially she wont even GO!


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> That's what I would advise her.Oh strictly a mom and a daughter.Her closest relationship besides her children is her mother.


Yeah, it certainly seems that she prefers to keep her energy within the bloodline, and she sees a man as an inconvenience. She may indeed be happier alone.


----------



## Created2Write

No one has said that his marriage will be fixed in two days if they can get away together. No one has said that at all. What _has_ been said is that, sometimes, it takes an interruption of the daily routine to snap people back to reality. This trip _could_ have helped her realize what she's been missing: intimate time with her husband. Would it have suddenly fixed their day-to-day issues? Not likely. But it _could_ have helped her see things for what they really are. 

I wonder if she already knows that she's neglecting him, but isn't willing to admit to it, and so canceled the trip to hold onto her denial for a little longer?


----------



## dallasapple

> Agreed. But it has to start somewhere. And he's making the best possible attempt to make some sort of connection given the current circumstances.


Attempt failed and I'm not surprised.Because the ROOT issue is not being addressed.

I mean Kudos for the "attempt I'm just saying with his wife's attitude no surprise to me the effort failed.


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> I submit its not even a 'start" let alone as good a time as any in his circumstances.How is it a "start" to go away for two days (that is if she will even agree to it) while she pouts and cries and calls home to check on the daughter?Then returns to status quo the minute they get back?


Again, this is a bad time, but it's the best he can do. It's the least bad of all possible alternatives. Worse alternatives are:

1) Doing nothing
2) Separating / divorcing (unless as a last resort)
3) Ignoring her
4) etc.

What would you suggest the OP do in this situation?


----------



## dallasapple

OP...I would for sure tell your wife? That if she has any ideas at all of ever having a 3rd child then that's out of the question for you .If her life is going to revolve around the children with sparsley a moment for you indefinately then two is all you are willing to have.


----------



## dallasapple

> 1) Doing nothing


Problem is she is doing "nothing" and he cant make her "do something".Thats obvious..



> 2) Separating / divorcing (unless as a last resort)


He isn't prepared to divorce.I have researched his posts..Not an option .



> 3) Ignoring her


I guess if it makes him feel better but how does that bring intimacy?Besides what if she likes that?

ETC..insist on counseling.


----------



## DTO

jd08 said:


> I think you are under the misunderstanding that this trip was a last ditch effort of sorts to try and save my marriage. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, her response and the timing of the response did far more damage than not going on the trip itself. The message that sent to me was "time alone with you is not important and neither are your feelings." I planned the trip for US because I wanted some time with my wife before the baby was born. I didn't plan it to resuscitate a near dead marriage, so get that idea out of your head.
> 
> The reason we have problems is not that we didn't go on a trip together. It's that she puts her feelings above our marriage. I'm under no illusion that all of our problems would have been solved in two days. However, I think not wanting to spend this short time away with one's spouse without children is surely an indicator of an even larger issue which makes all "normal" efforts at repairing a marriage seem obsolete.


I, for one, don't think this was a last-ditch effort to save the marriage. I do think that you have perceived a serious marital problem (if not now, then certainly in the future) with your wife deprioritizing you consistently. thus, you took this opportunity to generate a "change in scenery" in hopes of restoring some marital balance.

In essence, you are trying to prevent a bad situation from getting even worse. And, that is commendable. You can be sure that (1) you must be the driver of positive change in your marriage, (2) you will be increasingly marginalized (perhaps intolerably so) as your life becomes increasingly busy with two small kids, and (3) even when the pressures ease your wife will not go back to makiing you a priority - something else will always come up.


----------



## DTO

dallasapple said:


> OP...I would for sure tell your wife? That if she has any ideas at all of ever having a 3rd child then that's out of the question for you .If her life is going to revolve around the children with sparsley a moment for you indefinately then two is all you are willing to have.


Agreed. The truth is that if she cannot manage to meet your needs with one child, then she is deficient as a wife right now. No way is she capable to have two kids, and three is out of the question.


----------



## larry.gray

Trying2figureitout said:


> You have to understand pregnant wives are not rational at all.


"pregnant wives" implies all pregnant wives. Nice way to lump all women together.

My wife was never like this in any of her pregnancies. One in about every four menstrual cycles may leave her that way for a few days. That again varies from woman to woman.

It sounds like this goes back beyond this pregnancy for JD08, so I wouldn't be so sure that's the problem here either.


----------



## dallasapple

> My wife was never like this in any of her pregnancies. One in about every four menstrual cycles may leave her that way for a few days. That again varies from woman to woman.


Niether was I ...my issue was post partum..and that's most likely because I already have generalized depression ...I didn't even have any kind of menstrual "issues" as far as mood either til after 40.

But for "sick to stomach" in the beginning mood and "rational" wise I felt "normal" in pregnancy..actually upbeat..(and quite horny too. (no fear of pregnancy anymore too late)..


----------



## JCD

dallasapple said:


> What I'm saying now after reading more about their relationship going on a getaway will not a long term connection make.In fact it wont make for a long term connection for ANYONE.The re-connect needs to be on some sort of daily basis not once every 6 months even for a "get away".Like I said in my other post for his situation a weekend getaway would be like a band aid on a gushing wound.I don't see it miraculously changing her overall daily "non connect" with him.


It is a GESTURE. It is a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. It is an OLIVE BRANCH TO RECONNECT.

She returned the gesture...with one finger. She stepped away. She broke the branch.

Pick your prefered metaphor.


----------



## JCD

dallasapple said:


> No I don't think you did the equivelant to those I think SHE percieves it that way ..hence why it wont help.
> 
> Your wife was the one not happy and even insulted you wanted that for her b-day not me.Please don't take your wife's ongoing disinterest in you out on me.


You aren't helping. You are pointing out the obvious (there are serious problems in the marriage) and dismissing his gestures to move forward as inadequate.

You are also saying that you have no advice on how to fix it except for 'day to day' stuff...which is a bit generic.

He wants to know if she's offbase by passive aggressively doing what she did. It is. You've admitted it.

So...if she is flat out rejecting his gestures, where does he go from here?

Personally, sir, I'd do the 180 (to OP)


----------



## Thound

DTO said:


> Even if this were the case, which it does not seem to be, my response is "so what?".
> 
> IOW, the real issue is not why does he expect sex on this mini-vacation (if he indeed does). The real issue (for him and for you too) is why does his wife place so little value on their relationship and her responsibility as his wife that she finds it acceptable to avoid his needs.
> 
> Seriously, she's six months along - not 39 weeks. Unless she has some undisclosed medical issue, there is no reason she can't provide well for his needs. She might not prefer to have sex with him, but that's no excuse - even while pregnant.


You seem to be missing the point. She does not want to have sex with him, just like my wife doesn't want to with me. Our wives do not care about our needs. They are to selfish to meet our needs.


----------



## JCD

DTO said:


> Again, this is a bad time, but it's the best he can do. It's the least bad of all possible alternatives. Worse alternatives are:
> 
> 1) Doing nothing
> 2) Separating / divorcing (unless as a last resort)
> 3) Ignoring her
> 4) etc.
> 
> What would you suggest the OP do in this situation?


I go with number 3 myself.


----------



## JCD

So...not to rub salt into the wounds, but what did you actually DO on the birthday.

Or was that prior post a breakdown?

If so, I wonder why you spent THAT much effort on it.


----------



## Wiserforit

JCD said:


> It is a GESTURE. It is a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. It is an OLIVE BRANCH TO RECONNECT.


It sure is a curious thing to see this tidal wave of criticism for it from certain quarters. Bizarre. 

There isn't a single person who thinks that one week-end is going to save a troubled marriage so the incessant harping on that is inexplicable. 

If that "explanation" is made one more time on top of the other six hundred times it has already been made to people who don't need it explained in the first place I think we'll need to call some people in white coats to take someone to the funny farm and put them in a rubber room so they don't hurt themselves.

WTF.


----------



## Created2Write

I'm curious to know what they did for the Birthday too, if anything.


----------



## jd08

For her birthday we went to the breakfast thing and took the kid to a science museum with animals. Her mom actually took our daughter after that and for the night. We went out to dinner and then came home. 

We had some discussion about certain issues but she's still avoiding a lot of it. 

I'm not sure if it was her idea or MILs idea to do the kid sleepover. Since MIL is privy to everything that goes on there is about a 50/50 chance that she suggested it. Anyway, the night was ok but nothing special. No sex last night or this morning. She actually started cleaning the house and making a grocery list this morning (WTF). I was a little irked by that.


----------



## dallasapple

> There isn't a single person who thinks that one week-end is going to save a troubled marriage so the incessant harping on that is inexplicable.


LOL!! Read all the post..some descirbed it as pressure on a fatal wound .And"emergency room visit"..That sounds like a really "life saving" event ..Sorry ..


----------



## Created2Write

dallasapple said:


> LOL!! Read all the post..some descirbed it as pressure on a fatal wound .And"emergency room visit"..That sounds like a really "life saving" event ..Sorry ..


*sigh* Does a bandaid heal the wound? No, but it helps stop the bleeding. One weekend isn't going to save their marriage, but it _can_ help things from getting worse.

THAT is all that has been said. 

But I'll bet you know exactly what we're saying and are merely trying to stir up trouble.


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> For her birthday we went to the breakfast thing and took the kid to a science museum with animals. Her mom actually took our daughter after that and for the night. We went out to dinner and then came home.
> 
> We had some discussion about certain issues but she's still avoiding a lot of it.
> 
> I'm not sure if it was her idea or MILs idea to do the kid sleepover. Since MIL is privy to everything that goes on there is about a 50/50 chance that she suggested it. Anyway, the night was ok but nothing special. No sex last night or this morning. She actually started cleaning the house and making a grocery list this morning (WTF). I was a little irked by that.


So your wife is okay with being away from her daughter all night after all? WTH? Were your parents going to babysit her for the beach trip?


----------



## jd08

Apparently. At least on her terms. Her mother was the babysitter all along. 



Created2Write said:


> So your wife is okay with being away from her daughter all night after all? WTH? Were your parents going to babysit her for the beach trip?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

jd08 said:


> Apparently. At least on her terms. Her mother was the babysitter all along.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This NOT okay. You really need to lay out exactly how wrong all of this was. Sit her down and don't let her ignore this. It needs to be dealt with. Right now my guess is that she's hoping you're too upset to deal with it, and that you'll just let it slide. DON'T DO THIS. Sit her down, tell her exactly how you felt from the day you asked her about the trip, to right now.


----------



## Wiserforit

dallasapple said:


> LOL!! Read all the post..some descirbed it as pressure on a fatal wound .And"emergency room visit"..That sounds like a really "life saving" event ..Sorry ..


Insisting on the abject stupidity of others just removes any credibility on your part. 


Geez *jd08* - talk about emotional warfare. So the kids spent the night away regardless. Looks to me like the 180 is in order.


----------



## dallasapple

Wiserforit said:


> Insisting on the abject stupidity of others just removes any credibility on your part.
> 
> 
> Geez *jd08* - talk about emotional warfare. So the kids spent the night away regardless. Looks to me like the 180 is in order.


O.K.


----------



## dallasapple

jd08 said:


> For her birthday we went to the breakfast thing and took the kid to a science museum with animals. Her mom actually took our daughter after that and for the night. We went out to dinner and then came home.
> 
> We had some discussion about certain issues but she's still avoiding a lot of it.
> 
> I'm not sure if it was her idea or MILs idea to do the kid sleepover. Since MIL is privy to everything that goes on there is about a 50/50 chance that she suggested it. Anyway, the night was ok but nothing special. No sex last night or this morning. She actually started cleaning the house and making a grocery list this morning (WTF). I was a little irked by that.


Hmmm....maybe JUST maybe that was her compromise (in her mind)? Does she normally leave DD overnight or was this unusual?


----------



## Created2Write

It's not a compromise, though. It was a blatant, "We will do what I want, how I want" statement.


----------



## daffodilly

This just infuriates me. Compromise? Give me a break. 

OP, do NOT let this slide, or allow her to avoid the issue. Birthday's over now. She needs to comprehend how seriously wrong this was and what it's doing to your marriage. If you want a family, you take care of your marriage. I suspect your daughter would have been just fine being away from mom and dad for a day or two. It's your wife who isn't fine with it. 

A four year old is not going to remember spending the night away from her parents. But growing up in a house with distant parents or a rocky marriage? That stays for life. Your wife needs to get that.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

tacoma said:


> The more I think about the I realize how wrong what she is doing is.
> 
> I would have went on the vaca alone, downloaded a book for the weekend and shut off my cell.


That's what I would've done. With a second one on the way you are going to NEED a vacation! You might've been better off alone with the way your wife is going on. 

You should really look into getting some marriage counseling. If you think this is going to get better on it's own, think again. Two kids are twice as hard as one and with two kids to focus on she's not going to be giving your needs much thought unless you start taking a stand and communicating them to her. 

Good luck, you are going to need it.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

jd08 said:


> No sex last night or this morning. She actually started cleaning the house and making a grocery list this morning (WTF). I was a little irked by that.


:slap: Welcome to the rest of your life. You have seen all the "sexless marriage" threads on this forum? Well, it starts here, with this kinda crap.


----------



## JCD

Here is a funny thought: She is taking charge of the kids.

Why don't you move your direct deposit or paycheck cashing to a new account without asking her. Tell her your father suggested it.

See how okay she REALLY is with decisions without discussions.

This is a bit of game playing but she certainly isn't listening to you now.


----------



## tom67

JCD said:


> Here is a funny thought: She is taking charge of the kids.
> 
> Why don't you move your direct deposit or paycheck cashing to a new account without asking her. Tell her your father suggested it.
> 
> See how okay she REALLY is with decisions without discussions.
> 
> This is a bit of game playing but she certainly isn't listening to you now.


Uh yea!:iagree:


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Freak On a Leash said:


> :slap: Welcome to the rest of your life. You have seen all the "sexless marriage" threads on this forum? Well, it starts here, with this kinda crap.


yup


----------



## Grayson

dallasapple said:


> Hmmm....maybe JUST maybe that was her compromise (in her mind)? Does she normally leave DD overnight or was this unusual?


That was no compromise. That was exerting dominance.

It was unthinkable for the daughter to stay elsewhere when it was the getaway that he planned for her (with her acceptance). Yet when it's _her_ plans, it's A-OK.

I'd allowed the benefit of the doubt that she may not have realized how deeply she's been subsumed by her attention to their daughter. Now, though, I'm beginning to think she knows exactly what she's doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soifon

Grayson said:


> That was no compromise. That was exerting dominance.
> 
> It was unthinkable for the daughter to stay elsewhere when it was the getaway that he planned for her (with her acceptance). Yet when it's _her_ plans, it's A-OK.
> 
> I'd allowed the benefit of the doubt that she may not have realized how deeply she's been subsumed by her attention to their daughter. Now, though, I'm beginning to think she knows exactly what she's doing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: OP, if you don't show her in some way shape or form that you will not stand to be treated like this it will get much worse.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Has anyone suggested marriage counseling?

You have a marriage worth saving, you are open to communication and working things out and even talking about uncomfortable things. You say she is not. That may be the only way to get her to open up.

Time without kids is VERY important. Kids should LOVE spending a weekend with grandparents! They get spoiled with funny face pancakes, bake cookies, plant flowers, maybe shop for a new toy (or is that just my world?)...

Sounds like she's using motherhood as an excuse to hide from the real issues she doesn't want to address, including the weekend away and MC is a good way to have open discussions without things getting hateful, hurtful, angry, etc. You can have the feelings but how you each portray them is up to you. 

Most marriages are with saving. Make an appointment, tell her when it is. Tell her there are things going on that are making you very unhappy and you sense she is too, but too uncomfortable saying them. Divorce is way more uncomfortable - sitting there with a court mediator instead of a MC is worse.


----------



## daffodilly

EnjoliWoman said:


> Has anyone suggested marriage counseling?
> 
> You have a marriage worth saving, you are open to communication and working things out and even talking about uncomfortable things. You say she is not. That may be the only way to get her to open up.
> 
> Time without kids is VERY important. Kids should LOVE spending a weekend with grandparents! They get spoiled with funny face pancakes, bake cookies, plant flowers, maybe shop for a new toy (or is that just my world?)...
> 
> Sounds like she's using motherhood as an excuse to hide from the real issues she doesn't want to address, including the weekend away and MC is a good way to have open discussions without things getting hateful, hurtful, angry, etc. You can have the feelings but how you each portray them is up to you.
> 
> Most marriages are with saving. Make an appointment, tell her when it is. Tell her there are things going on that are making you very unhappy and you sense she is too, but too uncomfortable saying them. Divorce is way more uncomfortable - sitting there with a court mediator instead of a MC is worse.


Absolutely :iagree: And start this ASAP, before the newborn arrives.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

jd08 said:


> For her birthday we went to the breakfast thing and took the kid to a science museum with animals. Her mom actually took our daughter after that and for the night. We went out to dinner and then came home.


So she got a nice birthday after all. Is it any wonder she feels she can act the way she does?



> We had some discussion about certain issues but she's still avoiding a lot of it.


Real discussion, or you talking and her avoiding? Those are two very different discussions. If I had to guess, I bet she had no issue talking about your faults, but then avoided hers. 



> I'm not sure if it was her idea or MILs idea to do the kid sleepover. Since MIL is privy to everything that goes on there is about a 50/50 chance that she suggested it. Anyway, the night was ok but nothing special. No sex last night or this morning. She actually started cleaning the house and making a grocery list this morning (WTF). I was a little irked by that.


And you did not call her on this? Flat out ask her why the kids can now spend a night away? Why are her plans okay but yours are not? 

I am done with her and am now focusing on you. Your behavior is awful. She walks all over you and you just take it. You are training her to treat you poorly and expect you to come back for more. You need to stop this.

The next time you raise this issue, she can now say she did let the kids sleep over. See, she isn't a bad wife. And since you let it go, you have no response. You need to focus on you right now. Stop worrying about her, and work on yourself. Because right now, she has no respect for you. You need to work on making yourself some who can be respected.


----------



## Deejo

So ...

I just reviewed all of your other threads.
It can be challenging here when each post is viewed through a very small lens.

The lens on your relationship is now akin to the Hubble telescope.

You ready for some tough love?

You're wife doesn't respect you. Not remotely.

She may _think_ she loves you ... but she doesn't demonstrate love, or behave in a loving way towards you.

She tremendously enjoys her lifestyle and ability to focus on what is important to her, primarily your daughter, to the exclusion of her marriage. She EXPECTS you to continue providing this lifestyle of you giving and her taking.

She doesn't see that there is anything to fix, primarily because she isn't remotely uncomfortable.

And here is the important part ...

You keep enabling it, with absolutely no consequences beyond being angry and frustrated. Which notably, she is perfectly fine with.

This isn't about sex, or alone time, or rebuilding a bond.

You are in an utterly and completely dysfunctional relationship. And that is where you will stay until YOU decide to change it.

You keep expecting her to want to change. To want to work with you. To love you and desire you.

That CANNOT happen in the current dynamic that you continue to contribute to.

Most of the time we want to advocate couples working together to save their marriage.
Very often that task is simply not possible.

You jd, are IN one of those relationships. And the sooner you recognize that this isn't about you being nice, tolerant, loving, bringing home flowers, or using words of love and encouragement, the sooner you will be serving a change in your life, and hers as well.

That change at this point can't even be measured as good, or bad. What is absolutely certain, is that it is NECESSARY.

Stopping trying to win your wife, or complain about her behavior. If anything, her behavior has been remarkably consistent. 

You need to realign your expectations for your own behavior and the arc of your life. That is going to mean change. Change that your wife will view as radically harmful, shocking. 

And you need to get OK with that, for taking back some control and sense of satisfaction with your life; whether you remain married to this woman or not.

This is now on you. Not her. Not anymore.

But you need to choose it, and you need to ACT.


----------



## daffodilly

^^^^ We have a winner. Deejo has summed it up perfectly, OP.


----------



## larry.gray

I'll add to Deejo's excellent advice, with something he's said before. 

You're here and she's not. All you can do is change yourself. You can give her a choice to change, but you can't make her. What you've done so far isn't going to do that, she's demonstrated she doesn't care about your feelings or opinions.


----------



## that_girl

:allhail:

Yes, Deejo!


----------



## Created2Write

Deejo hit the nail on the head here. 

JD, your wife will not change on her own. She has no reason to change right now. You being hurt or upset isn't going to make her feel bad, it isn't going to change her. She doesn't care about your feelings right now, as harsh as that may sound. 

That's why I've continued to ask what you've done to hold her accountable, and discussions don't count. The have to be some real changes, and it starts with you being more assertive.


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## Kobo

Thound said:


> I believe you had the best intentions I really do, but some women like my wife sees this as a sex get away. Pick a different time other than her bday. You are right in wanting quality time together before the baby is born. I'm telling you about the bday thing because I made the same mistake myself. It would akin to her getting you a sewing machine for your bday. Please understand I meant no disrespect, I just see things differently. I hope things work out for you, you seem like a good guy.


My wife has booked hotels for her last 2 bdays for us. Yes we have sex (Crazy stuff I know). We also do the day spa. Really good dinner and dancing/jazz club to finish off. Don't see what the big deal is. The fact that you keep calling it a "sex weekend" has me concerned. That's usually reserved for trips to the Dominican Republic.


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## that_girl

I would LOVE a sex getaway right about now.


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## Kobo

dallasapple said:


> Would you say she had lost her identity in her husband if she hated being away from him overnight?Or feared over his safety if he for instance had to go on a trip and cried when he left and called to make sure he was safe? This I'm sure is about fear /instinct even no matter how "irrational" others believe it to be.


That would be a problem also. We're talking about an adult correct?


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## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> My wife has booked hotels for her last 2 bdays for us. Yes we have sex (Crazy stuff I know). We also do the day spa. Really good dinner and dancing/jazz club to finish off. Don't see what the big deal is. The fact that you keep calling it a "sex weekend" has me concerned. That's usually reserved for trips to the Dominican Republic.


When did a couple getting away together become a bad thing? UFB. Thank you for posting this.


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## A Bit Much

I'm glad to hear the OP's wife doesn't have a phobia about being away overnight from her child. It really clears things right up in that department.

I feel bad for you JD, but as Deejo, TAG and others have pointed out, you are definitely on the hook for much of this mistreatment. You taught her how to do it to you.


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## Kobo

that_girl said:


> I would LOVE a sex getaway right about now.


You should try a a "sex summer". Thank God for grand parents.


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## Starstarfish

I can't even begin to dive into some of the insanity that's been posted in this thread. Cancelling this trip at the last minute was yes, inconsiderate at the very least, as well as wasteful, though an exact figure on how much was paid hasn't come up (that I noticed at least.) Unfortunately, as we can't directly ask the OP's wife what her true issue was, all we can do is surmise. 

The child is almost four. Next year she'll be in school - will your wife be able to function when the oldest starts school? Will she be capable of not being there to monitor her every behavior? If not, well - it might be time to not only talk to a MC but also time to work out how deep that rabbit hole goes? What is she worried will happen when the child is with the Grandparents? Are the fears rational? If they aren't - they might need to be talked about. Are they fears of her own making, or is the MIL encouraging them? Perhaps both?

Which, I've feel compelled to say, "sex weekend" or otherwise. I just got back from a weekend away with the husband myself, and yes, Jr stayed with Grandma. :smthumbup: But even as a wife who has at least an annual (for our anniversary) trips sans kid with the husband, I've got to confess - having sex in someone else's house and using their sheets might give me a mental block to enjoying myself. (Should I wash them before I leave, what about the towels? Will they think I'm a slob?) At a hotel, you are anonymous and the chances of you seeing the cleaning staff or even the front desk people again are low. 

So "sex weekend" yes - sex weekend at someone else's house, hmm, perhaps not.


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## larry.gray

that_girl said:


> I would LOVE a sex getaway right about now.


About now you should have about 30 PMs from divorced guys....


Hopefully non from any skeevie CWI guys though


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## DTO

Thound said:


> You seem to be missing the point. She does not want to have sex with him, just like my wife doesn't want to with me. Our wives do not care about our needs. They are to selfish to meet our needs.


I am absolutely not missing the point. In fact, I was part of that club until I started taking action (gave my ex a vacation from out marriage).

I am merely responding to those who seem to be taking the OP to task for expecting sex during a vacation - even if that was the intent of his planned weekend away.


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## Created2Write

JD, there seems to be a trend when you post. You'll create your OP, talk to people on the forum, get advice...and then disappear until you post again with the next issue. I'm concerned that you don't, or rarely do, hold your wife accountable to her actions. 

-Did you ever talk to her mom about interfering in your relationship?
-I know that this trip was meant to be a way for you to reconnect, but have you done other date things that weren't overnight to connect as well? 

Now that this thread is filling up with ideas and suggestions for how to keep your wife accountable, you're not posting. I'm concerned that, with this, you're becoming...well, a bit of a doormat with your wife. That will kill your marriage for sure. Sitting back and letting your wife run things the way she wants to might keep the peace, but it will strangle any love that exists between the two of you until it's dead. And, unless she's a total witch who doesn't care about you at all, she doesn't really _want_ you to be a doormat either. She wants a strong, capable, assertive man who'll stand up for himself because _that_ man is attractive. Worthy of respect. Worthy of admiration. 

Letting her get her way won't get the outcome you desire. It won't make her more appreciative. It won't urge her to spend more time with you. It won't change her at all. If you choose to be more assertive, she will be forced to acknowledge the state of you relationship because:
-you won't allow her to treat you any way she likes, which means she will be forced to examine her actions and _not_ just through discussions, but through boundaries. Which means:
-she will have to either change the way she treats you, or deal with the consequences.

Talking has done nothing, as each and every one of your other threads has proven. So now it's time to take action.


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