# The "Ultimate" Insult



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

During our family Christmas dinner I got what I consider one of the ultimate insults from my wife. (at least for me) We were talking about someone we all know and that he is really taken advantage of by his wife. Someone commented that he really got the short end of the stick with her. My wife turned to me and said "looks like I go the short end of the stick, too." 

She very quickly said, "I didn't mean it the way it sounded", but there was basically no regret in her voice. Also, I have a real hard time thinking about any way she could have meant it other than the way she said it. How else could you mean something like that. Further the "apology" had about as much feeling in it as when she bumps shopping carts with someone. 

I started sleeping in the guest room and only talk to her when necessary. I am polite, but the relationship is no longer what it once was. Last night, I said to her that I was still hurting. With almost no emotion, she said something along the lines that what someone lets slip out is out, nothing more.

We've been married for almost 22 years and for years there have been things that make me feel like this was a freudian slip and she's *actually* does feel that way.

To be honest, she does almost all of the housework. However, she only works half time. We have two kids, she checks most of their homework, but things like math and science is my job. When the kids don't listen, I have to play the badguy and discipline them. I don't have a problem with that, I am just trying to show that I am not just lying around doing nothing at all. 

I have a college degree and she barely passed high school. I am a professional (IT) and she is a sales clerk. I am not trying to put her or any sales clerk down, I am just trying to point out that because of my education I can and do earn enough that I pay more in taxes than she earns. Plus, I frequently publish technical articles and run a few web sites that bring additional income into the family. The fact that she can simply buy any new kitchen gadget she wants is a result of my income and the extra work I do. (She also got a new kitchen last year for $15K) My income goes into a joint account, her income goes into her person account and I end up paying all of the bills, even the insurance and registration on her car, her life insurance, her private retirement fund, and so forth. 

Like any person, I have my flaws, but I consider myself "above average" successful. I have never hit my wife, I am not an alcoholic or a gambling addict. So, despite my shortcomings, I would not consider myself the "short end of the stick" by any means. So, with a comment like that, almost no apology and no real acceptance that it hurt as bad as it did, I cannot shake the feeling that this is actually what she thinks of me. 

What do I want from the people reading this? I don't have a clue.


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

wow. she is certainly taking passive aggressive stabs at you. I would be devastated, too. especially since she said it in front of other people like that. 

It sounds like you are both resentful. You are resentful that you pay the bills, and i have no idea what she resents you for. But she really doesnt like you. 

When my H takes stabs at me, i try not to get offensive. sometimes i do, but usually i'll stop, look him right in the eye and non aggressively ask him to tell me what is really bothering him. I try to be open to the idea that i did do something, no matter if i think its important or not, its important to him, and id like to know what it is so we can talk about it. I will tell him that his passive aggressive remarks are only going ot push me away and i still not going to know what's bothering him. this usually works. as long as i dont get passive aggressive back, become offended and shut off, or dismiss his feelings as unimportant, we can resolve the issue. He just has to learn to talk to me.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi garion. I really don't know what to say to make you feel better. Sometimes just finding the right place to vent goes a long way. As painful as your wife's comment was, I see resentment and even bitterness as a problem here also. Perhaps you and your wife could seek counseling before this gets any worse.

Hang in there!


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In general does she treat you well? 

If the man has a normal desire level, then the ultimate measure of what a woman thinks of you as a MAN - IMO - is defined by how she treats you IN BED. Just my opinion but it is based on a lot of observation. 

If she is frequently sexual with you AND she makes the effort to make sex fun for you - then you are in at least an ok place. If however the sex is rare or she is lazy about it then you have a problem. 

How does she normally treat you outside of bed? Is she kind/thoughtful respectful?

>>>>>>>>>>
As for your self assessment let me summarize:
- You are a great provider and are generous
- You are an excellent parent 

These things are hugely important. Oddly enough they don't trigger much in terms of desire/passion/love in women. Actually maybe disciplining the kids does if you are good at that and project strong/dominant alpha while doing it. 

You said nothing about the things that make a woman WANT to be with a man: 
- Playfulness - being fun to be around and funny
- Adventurousness - a type of courage
- Sexual aggressiveness/having an "edge" to you
- Being fun/skilled in bed
- Physical fitness 
- How you dress 

How about you stop sulking and ask your wife: What is it she wants in a mate that caused her to say that? IMO it is better to know specifics then to just feel generally rejected. Some of them you won't be able to change - she wants someone taller/more handsome etc. Some you will - maybe she wants you to get back in shape. And without attacking her I also think it is VERY IMPORTANT to ask her if she actually WANTS to be with you. And wants to improve the marriage. 

What are YOU going to say if she asks you if you are willing to try to change? Because clearly something is seriously missing for her. 

You are trying to force her to retract a statement that she actually meant. So she actually has to come and lie to you and apparently she is not willing to do that. Hey as a man I feel for you it sucks that she said that/feels that way. But you have also got to accept that being a good provider/good math science tutor and good disciplinarian is necessary but not sufficient for a happy marriage. 

But the ultimate attractor for any woman - confidence - the real thing - is needed to make this work well. Meaning you need to believe in yourself enough as a man to insist that she is open and honest with you. I wouldn't stay with a woman who thought she got the short end of the stick being with me. Especially if she was willing to say it and then not explain what was going on in her head. 

A few times in our marriage my wife has pushed me to the outer edge of reason. And each time I have asked her the same question. "What do you think I will do if you are acting this way when our youngest child leaves the house?" 

Because my feeling in those situations was that I would end it at that time. And I made that clear. 



garion said:


> During our family Christmas dinner I got what I consider one of the ultimate insults from my wife. (at least for me) We were talking about someone we all know and that he is really taken advantage of by his wife. Someone commented that he really got the short end of the stick with her. My wife turned to me and said "looks like I go the short end of the stick, too."
> 
> She very quickly said, "I didn't mean it the way it sounded", but there was basically no regret in her voice. Also, I have a real hard time thinking about any way she could have meant it other than the way she said it. How else could you mean something like that. Further the "apology" had about as much feeling in it as when she bumps shopping carts with someone.
> 
> ...


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

Blanca said:


> It sounds like you are both resentful. You are resentful that you pay the bills, and i have no idea what she resents you for. But she really doesnt like you.


I don't *think* that I am resentful about paying the bills. However, I think it is a fair exchange that I pay the bills and she does the housework. Maybe she is resentful that I don't do more of the housework. I don't know.



Blanca said:


> I try to be open to the idea that i did do something, no matter if i think its important or not, its important to him, and id like to know what it is so we can talk about it. I will tell him that his passive aggressive remarks are only going ot push me away and i still not going to know what's bothering him. this usually works. as long as i dont get passive aggressive back, become offended and shut off, or dismiss his feelings as unimportant, we can resolve the issue. He just has to learn to talk to me.


There are a lot of things that I *know* are important to my wife, but I do not think they are important. For example, she wants me to shave when we go shopping on Saturday morning. I don't care, but I shave anyway.

My wife has never been very open about her feelings. It is definitely part of he upbringing. It wasn't until I came into the family that people started hugging each other. I know what kind of things push her buttons (like letting the door slip out of my hand and then it slams shut), but she yells something about not slamming doors. Then I get annoyed because it was not on purpose. That would definititely a place where I could avoid getting annoyed and be more conscious about making sure the door does not slam.

Admittedly, I thought about "passive aggressive" jabs myself, but that is not me. I am much more direct. Often I should be a bit more diplomatic, but there is usually very little room for misinterpretation.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't think it is right that you put your entire paycheck into a joint account yet she gets to have a slushfund all her own.

I recommend that you start putting a like amount into an account that you control all by yourself.

And further, that the two of you prorate the costs of the household and she start paying a reasonable amount into the bills.

So if you make 70% of the total income, you pay 70% of the bills, etc.

Why?

Because you two are zooming in on a divorce and she knows it. You do not.

You will need proof of her ability to support herself or be reamed out in spousal support later.

She was not caring that she said such an awful thing and really doesn't care that yo now sleep in another room. She is probably relieved.

You may be a college educated IT professional and she not very educated or in a high paying profession, however, she is an expert at getting you to pay for everything and getting nothing in return.

Prepare yourself. Protect yourself. She sure is doing that already.


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

827Aug said:


> Hi garion. I really don't know what to say to make you feel better. Sometimes just finding the right place to vent goes a long way. As painful as your wife's comment was, I see resentment and even bitterness as a problem here also. Perhaps you and your wife could seek counseling before this gets any worse.
> 
> Hang in there!


Venting, or at least putting my thoughts and feelings into words definitely helps. Thanks for listening.


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> In general does she treat you well?
> 
> If the man has a normal desire level, then the ultimate measure of what a woman thinks of you as a MAN - IMO - is defined by how she treats you IN BED. Just my opinion but it is based on a lot of observation.
> 
> If she is frequently sexual with you AND she makes the effort to make sex fun for you - then you are in at least an ok place. If however the sex is rare or she is lazy about it then you have a problem.


Twice a month, three if I am lucky. Her, uh, "explanation" is simply that I stay up later than she does. She is asleep or just too tired when I go to bed and gets up before I do and "doesn't want to wake me" although I have *repeatedly* said for that she is more than welcome to wake me.

I think that even that much is done out of a sense of "obligation" (for lack of a better word) That is just something the wife is supposed to do for the man.She does have dinner ready when I come home and makes me a lunch to take with me to work, and other similar kinds of things, but again I think a lot of it is obligation.



MEM11363 said:


> How does she normally treat you outside of bed? Is she kind/thoughtful respectful?


Yes, but I *believe* that a lot of it is done from obligation. Respectful? That is a vague word, but I know what you mean. There are many things I do differently from her that she doesn't directly say are wrong, but she does make snide remarks. 

- Playfulness - being fun to be around and funny
I think so. I make a lot of jokes and like to have fun. Puns are my favorite/most common form of humor.

- Adventurousness - a type of courage
I am always willing to try new things. She tends to like the familiar, but still does new things occasionally. 

- Sexual aggressiveness/having an "edge" to you
Perhaps more than she would like. 

- Being fun/skilled in bed
I try.

- Physical fitness 
I have a few (uh, several) pounds too many. Yes, she has commented on that. She is a little overweight herself, but proportionally not as much as I.

- How you dress 
She tells me. I don't mind, because I don't care. When we go out she tells me what to wear.



MEM11363 said:


> How about you stop sulking and ask your wife: What is it she wants in a mate that caused her to say that? IMO it is better to know specifics then to just feel generally rejected. Some of them you won't be able to change - she wants someone taller/more handsome etc. Some you will - maybe she wants you to get back in shape. And without attacking her I also think it is VERY IMPORTANT to ask her if she actually WANTS to be with you. And wants to improve the marriage.


She has always had a problem expressing her feelings.However, at least that is something I can try as I doubt it will make things any worse and I do not want this relationship to end.



MEM11363 said:


> What are YOU going to say if she asks you if you are willing to try to change? Because clearly something is seriously missing for her.


Without question!!!



MEM11363 said:


> But the ultimate attractor for any woman - confidence - the real thing - is needed to make this work well. Meaning you need to believe in yourself enough as a man to insist that she is open and honest with you. I wouldn't stay with a woman who thought she got the short end of the stick being with me. Especially if she was willing to say it and then not explain what was going on in her head.


I wouldn't want to stay either and admittedly the D-word has gone through my head at least a hundred times since then. Part of what I am feeling is shock because of depth of that kind of comment and that it was made in public. 



MEM11363 said:


> A few times in our marriage my wife has pushed me to the outer edge of reason. And each time I have asked her the same question. "What do you think I will do if you are acting this way when our youngest child leaves the house?"
> 
> Because my feeling in those situations was that I would end it at that time. And I made that clear.


That is definitely a good approach. At the very least it puts the question to her that she needs to answers, it gives her the opportunity to be honest about whether she wants to stay in this relationship and shows her what my potential action are.


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

garion said:


> I don't *think* that I am resentful about paying the bills. However, I think it is a fair exchange that I pay the bills and she does the housework. Maybe she is resentful that I don't do more of the housework. I don't know.


It sounds like you are resentful that she doesnt appreciate what you are doing for her. 



garion said:


> My wife has never been very open about her feelings.


Its funny, but my H would say the same thing. I feel like I couldnt be more clear. Im wondering if your wife thinks you just dont listen so she's stopped trying. that's kind of where im at with my H. He told me the other day that i dont share my feelings...I used to. but after years of him not getting what i was saying, i dont bother anymore. I used to take passive stabs at him all the time. im over that phase though. 



garion said:


> I know what kind of things push her buttons (like letting the door slip out of my hand and then it slams shut), but she yells something about not slamming doors.


this is very superficial. she yells about the door slamming because she pissed about something else. this is not the issue. do you know what the issue is? it sounds like you have no clue.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> To be honest, she does almost all of the housework. However, she only works half time. We have two kids, she checks most of their homework, but things like math and science is my job. When the kids don't listen, I have to play the badguy and discipline them. I don't have a problem with that, I am just trying to show that I am not just lying around doing nothing at all.
> 
> I have a college degree and she barely passed high school. I am a professional (IT) and she is a sales clerk. I am not trying to put her or any sales clerk down, I am just trying to point out that because of my education I can and do earn enough that I pay more in taxes than she earns. Plus, I frequently publish technical articles and run a few web sites that bring additional income into the family. The fact that she can simply buy any new kitchen gadget she wants is a result of my income and the extra work I do. (She also got a new kitchen last year for $15K) My income goes into a joint account, her income goes into her person account and I end up paying all of the bills, even the insurance and registration on her car, her life insurance, her private retirement fund, and so forth.


Doesn't matter how she did in high school; she's made a huge career sacrifice for the sake of the family. Quit calling it "your" money. Quit justifying the fact that you don't do your share around the house. She works part-time and does nearly all the house work? Are you aware housework is not an 8-5 job? 

She isn't being fair to you, but I can tell you aren't fair to her just by the way you write. Either you split everything 50/50, or you don't. And you don't--you earn more so you think you contribute more. 

There is no "generosity" in a marriage--what's mine is yours and what's yours in mine. She should not have her own $$$ in a different account unless you are entitled to a comparable sum. 

Your post was a lot of money stuff and it's clear you don't see marriage as more than a financial transaction--she should give you sex and be nicer to you because "you earn the money." She doesn't see it that way at all--she knows she's made career sacrifices and does a lot more work than you, regardless of how much you earn. She knows you could not have both your job and family life without her--and you know it too. So why isn't it an equal partnership from your perspective? Why hasn't it always been? Do your share and quit expecting credit for it. Maybe she'll see that and develop some more respect for you when she sees you respect her and what she does.


----------



## Vivid1 (Jan 7, 2010)

i KNow, she is jealous that you have succeded in life and technically she hasnt as much as you, eventhough raising kids is the hardest and rewarding job out there, but now that they are a little older she doesnt feel that way. I had a counselor once tell me something very important she said: 9 times out of 10 you will let it out on the 1 person you feel the most comfortable with. And thats you, you are her safe place, and in a negative way she is letting it out on you. My favorite verse is: Love me the most when i deserve it the least, cause thats when i needed the most!
She does sound like she loves you very much, not every woman packs her man a lunch! but she is probably at a point in her life where she cant see her accomplishments over yours. Maybe talk to her, give her some affection and tell her how much you appreciate all the million small and large things she does! Most men dont understand how much a hug and re-assurement can heal us.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sister,
I agree with many of your points - I would suggest though that he start with a question - regarding workload - and not make the assumption that it is unfair and even more important that it is the source of her very brutal comment. 

In fact - let me put this a different way. I do not know a single female who would say:
- My husband is an overall great guy and I love him and am attracted to him 
- I am frustrated he doesn't do more around the house - just like many of my female friends and sometimes this makes me feel resentful
- I really feel like I got the short end of the stick marrying him

He needs to ask her OPEN ENDED questions like:
- What are the main reasons you feel like you got the short end of the stick?
- What are the things you most wish I would do differently?
- What are the things you wish were different about me that you KNOW I can't change?
- What are the things you wish were different about me that you THINK I can't change?
- When the kids are gone will you still want to be with me - if so why?
- Are YOU willing to work to make our marriage better and if so what do you think YOU need to do differently?

The last question is huge - he cannot let this be ALL about him. She is very far from perfect as well as her comment shows. 

I have never seen a case that presents like his - where a core part of the issue was lack of choreplay. 

Garrion - More then half the people I know who make puns - THEY think it is funny but everyone else groans. This is the opposite of creating sexual desire. 

I notice you talk about humor from YOUR viewpoint that you always make puns. I never think of my humor from my viewpoint - only from that of the audience - either THEY are truly laughing - with all the usual body language or they are not. What I think is funny or clever is not really relevant. 




sisters359 said:


> Doesn't matter how she did in high school; she's made a huge career sacrifice for the sake of the family. Quit calling it "your" money. Quit justifying the fact that you don't do your share around the house. She works part-time and does nearly all the house work? Are you aware housework is not an 8-5 job?
> 
> She isn't being fair to you, but I can tell you aren't fair to her just by the way you write. Either you split everything 50/50, or you don't. And you don't--you earn more so you think you contribute more.
> 
> ...


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

garion said:


> What do I want from the people reading this? I don't have a clue.


Sounds like you are the "nice guy".

This is all too common, the good husband and provider is resented by his woman. 

These are the facts:

Your woman does not respect you.

Your woman is not sexually attracted to you.

Instead your woman resents you.

Unless you change this, by stopping the "nice guy", you will continue to be miserable and your marriage will be ending up with affairs or divorce.

A woman will always resent a "nice guy", because a "nice guy" does not make a woman feel desired or sexually attractive. Instead, like you have mentioned, sex, if it ever happens, is done from obligation and duty, not because a woman is on fire sexually for her man and it is a gift and a desire. 

Again, your woman is resentful to you, does not respect you, and has made it clear she is feeling "used".

If you want to change this, then you must change yourself and then change how you relate to your woman.

A woman will resent a "nice guy", this is a "weak man" to her eyes, and even though this man may be making money or such things as you have suggested, if he is not lighting his womans sexual fire then they are "just friends" or "roomates" or something, and this is a VERY dangerous place to be and not the place for the married man to be with his woman. 

Unfortunately this is where you are now with your woman.

Know this fact. A woman is irresistibly attracted to the man in control of himself and his environment. This is the dominant man. Your goal, to improve your relationship, is to be this man.

So here is some advice to start.

Always speak to your woman with respect, and insist she is speaking to you in return with respect. 

Do not allow disrespect, inattentiveness when you speak, or raised voices or even sarcasm to go without confronting her about it. 

Confront often, and as often as necessary, looking at each confrontation as the opportunity to show how calm and control you are in conflict. 

ALWAYS be firm, calm, and in control of yourself. Consistency is the key here.

In this attitude of calm, confidence, and control, ask your woman what it is she is needing, and begin this process to take ownership and make a plan to resolve these needs.

Also, this other thing sticking out like a sore thumb that is striking against you making you look bad and "weak" in your woman's eyes, and that is this. Stop letting her tell you how to dress!

You are a man not a boy. Instead, you should be the one to pick out clothes to make yourself look sharp and presentable when the situation is appropriate WITHOUT BEING TOLD.

If the situation is appropriate for you to not shave, or dress casually, then do so without apology. 

Instead, turn these tables and tell your woman what YOU like to see HER wearing. This is killing two birds with one stone, showing you are a dominant man and not a boy, and also showing your woman you are attentive to her appearance and find her attractive. Read this again many times if necessary.

I wish you well.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> In fact - let me put this a different way. I do not know a single female who would say:
> - My husband is an overall great guy and I love him and am attracted to him
> - I am frustrated he doesn't do more around the house - just like many of my female friends and sometimes this makes me feel resentful
> - I really feel like I got the short end of the stick marrying him


Mem, almost every woman I know feels that marriage still gives women the short end of the stick. 

I would say that most women resent the fact that men "help" rather than simply seeing it as doing their share. Because they bring home the money, they tend to think that anything else they do is some type of gift to their wife for which she should be grateful. 

Men not doing their share of work at home is probably the #1 complaint I hear from women. This is true for both SAHMs and moms who work outside the home. If childcare and housework are the "woman's domain," she is "at work" 24/7. When she has to clean up after another adult, she feels she has another child on her hands. If it is a true partnership, he would recognize that her willingness to sacrifice life-time earnings and stay home with kids is the only reason he is able to work AND have a family. He would accept that when he gets home, he is as much obligated to participate fully in getting things done as she is. He would do what needs to be done (and he'd know, with attention and practice, what those things are) and what the consequences are if it doesn't get thoroughly done--"we can put away the dishes in the morning" means someone needs to get up earlier to do it, or otherwise the morning schedule (important with kids of any age!) will be thrown off. He will know that if he does not wipe up the jelly he just got on the counter now, it will take more time and energy in the morning, or whenever someone gets to it--and meantime, everything that touches that part of the counter will get sticky and need cleaning, too. Add this up to hundreds of little (or big) messes that go with daily life, and you'll understand what many women know: doing it NOW and doing it THOROUGHLY are actually saving time and energy later. 

The men who think they are being too nice may well feel that, because they "help," their wives should be grateful. Women resent that, too, because no one thanks them for doing the work. Furthermore the job a man does is often half-assed done and the men tell them, "Let it go. It's good enough. . . It doesn't need to be done. . . It can be done later." It really is NOT that simple. 

What would happen if mom quit working when dad came home at 5:30 pm? And does anyone really think a full-time, stay-at-home mom has free time during the day when home with kids? 

I know men do not understand this--and I would sure like to see how you guys see it. 

And here's a bonus riddle: Why is your wife so irritated when you put a bottle back in the fridge without securing the top?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sis,
You asked I will answer. 

When we met we both earned about the same and made good money for our ages. When we had kids I did not WANT 100 percent of the financial responsibility. We fought about it. She prevailed. I wanted 2 kids - she wanted 3. We had 3. Our first child took 2 two hour naps a day and slept through the night. I am NOT a messy guy and I like to cook. While we had one child - her life was definitely easier then mine and she will tell you so without hesitation. And I will also say that she is a great mom and would read the kids the same book 50 times in a row if they asked or play candy land 100 times in a row if they wanted even though she hated that game. She was 10 times better in her role then I would have been. 

This whole idea of men being beholden to women because the women have a 7/24 job is a fine concept but in reality:
- There is a HUGE difference between a 6 month old and a 7 year old in terms of labor intensiveness. 
- And between an easy kid and a difficult kid. And between a difficult kid and a special needs kid. 
- Between 1 child and 4 children

So if you have 4 preschool kids then you trump ANY person working for money in terms of workload. If you have 1 easy child who is 2 years old and a hard working husband then IME your life is in a very real sense easier then his. 

As for the "house". I have been the house husband for the last year plus. So lets start with the whole 7/24 thing. You are ON CALL 7/24 sure. But actual work hours can be a LOT less then 60 hours a week and as for what is a work hour well lets address that. 

If I spend 3 hours a day on the house - which is the MOST it takes - on the house - how do I compute hours worked when:
- I watch tv while folding the laundry which is the only labor intensive part. Sorry doesn't feel like work. 
- I can unload the dishwasher while on the phone with friends. Same for picking up the house a bit - using my telephone headset. If I do a bunch of "work" while chatting with friends and watching tv how does that compare to a stressful job dealing with demanding customers? Not saying it is effortless - I AM saying that it feels political when I read how women have it so hard and men have it so easy. 

On the revenue side:
- There is a difference between a 40 hour work week and a 60
- Between a low travel job and a high travel job
- Just as there is a huge difference between being a librarian and being a technology consultant in stress level. So instead of speaking in gross generalizations I will be specific. 

In my house:
- When we had 1 child her life was easier. 
- When we had 2 children her life was still easier since the first was almost 5 when the second was born. 
- When we had 3 children 2 of whom were quite young her job was harder and I should have helped more
- When all 3 of them were in school full time her job became easier again - details below.


Fast forward 13 years:
- All 3 kids are now in school - youngest is in first grade
- I am now working a job that is very difficult and emotionally draining - and yes time consuming. 
- I am earning per month what I earned per year when we met
- She is taking great care of the kids - as always - but treats any extra requests I have as a very low priority

We had intense conflict over this last bit - for over a year - at which point she made my requests a high priority - they were never things that were very time consuming - things like getting me a house key made. And you know what I emotionally started to burn out ON MY MARRIAGE. Because I really started to feel used. And - amazingly - I got so angry about it - that it did effect our sex life for a while. 

So I can understand how the reverse is true - when the reverse REALLY is true. I just don't think women always address the specifics of their situation. 




sisters359 said:


> Mem, almost every woman I know feels that marriage still gives women the short end of the stick.
> 
> I would say that most women resent the fact that men "help" rather than simply seeing it as doing their share. Because they bring home the money, they tend to think that anything else they do is some type of gift to their wife for which she should be grateful.
> 
> ...


----------



## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

I don't want to make this about me, but my wife told her co-workers that, although I treat her well, I am unattractive.
So I know how you feel I guess.

What everyone has been telling me is that it probably has more to do with her own insecurities than my actual looks. 
I haven't changed much looks-wise since we were married and I doubt you have grown or shrunk much since you were married.

She married you for a reason. 

We went through the same things you are after her comment - still are actually. Let me know how it goes for you.


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Meriter said:


> I don't want to make this about me, but my wife told her co-workers that, although I treat her well, I am unattractive.
> So I know how you feel I guess.
> 
> What everyone has been telling me is that it probably has more to do with her own insecurities than my actual looks.


If you have not done so already, read what I have typed in post #13 for this very issue.

It is not usually anything about physical looks if a woman is not attracted to her man, unless he is really "let himself go" which is showing is is not in control of his health or hygiene. It is instead more likely what has changed in his treatment of her. 

And yes, if a man is being the "nice guy" to a woman, she is going to feel insecure and will not be attracted to this man.


----------



## D8zed (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree - this has "nice guy" written all over it. Run, don't walk, to the nearest bookstore or library and read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (Dr. Glover).


----------



## Meriter (Nov 10, 2009)

BigBadWolf said:


> If you have not done so already, read what I have typed in post #13 for this very issue.
> 
> It is not usually anything about physical looks if a woman is not attracted to her man, unless he is really "let himself go" which is showing is is not in control of his health or hygiene. It is instead more likely what has changed in his treatment of her.
> 
> And yes, if a man is being the "nice guy" to a woman, she is going to feel insecure and will not be attracted to this man.


Well I said I didn't want to make this about me, and now I have...
I wanted to compliment you on your post though (#13). That did describe me in many ways: telling me how to dress...when to shave...inattentiveness when I am speaking...

I also think it doesn't help that I'm the nicest guy she's ever met. I am the stay at home dad and the kids come to me, even when she is home so perhaps that doesn't help her resentment either.

I don't know how I could get away with reading a book titled: No More Mr. Nice Guy here at home without giving away the game plan, but I will make the changes you suggested in your post and start there.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

garion said:


> We were talking about someone we all know and that he is really taken advantage of by his wife. Someone commented that he really got the short end of the stick with her. My wife turned to me and said "looks like I go the short end of the stick, too."
> 
> She very quickly said, "I didn't mean it the way it sounded", but there was basically no regret in her voice.


Is it possible that she actually could relate to one of the things you were talking about with the other husband and wife?

For example, all these negative things flying around and then someone says 'And he even packs her a lunch every day on top of everything else!' ... then your wife chimed in ... because 'chuckle...i can relate to that one!'

This would explain why she didn't mean it the way it sounded and did not feel a need to overly apologize for it....since you say you have a sense of humor....

could be way off but is this scenario a possibility?


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

Meriter said:


> I don't want to make this about me, but my wife told her co-workers that, although I treat her well, I am unattractive.
> So I know how you feel I guess.
> 
> What everyone has been telling me is that it probably has more to do with her own insecurities than my actual looks.
> ...


Well, I definitely have a few more pounds than when we married 20 years ago. Yes, she has comment to me directly that she would like me to loose a few pounds and is "unhappy" when we go shopping and I do not bother to shave.


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

swedish said:


> Is it possible that she actually could relate to one of the things you were talking about with the other husband and wife?
> 
> For example, all these negative things flying around and then someone says 'And he even packs her a lunch every day on top of everything else!' ... then your wife chimed in ... because 'chuckle...i can relate to that one!'
> 
> ...


That *definitely* seems to be part of what was happening, but it was also more direct than something like "I can relate". Also there was no "humor" in her voice when she said it.


----------



## garion (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks to all who commented. In the meantime I spoke to my wife directly about this. She repeated the comment that it was not meant the way she said it, but couldn't really explain how she meant it. At any rate, things are much better.


----------



## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

garion said:


> Thanks to all who commented. In the meantime I spoke to my wife directly about this. She repeated the comment that it was not meant the way she said it, but couldn't really explain how she meant it. At any rate, things are much better.


The fact that you "spoke to your wife directly about this" is the most important thing right now.

Regardless to what she says, you have demonstrated in this action that you are the man that will insist on respect. 

To be consistent from now on, to be the man that shows he will insist on respect, and is not timid to confront his woman when it is lacking, is indeed moving forward.


----------

