# H loves another woman



## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

My husband admitted to me that he loves another woman and I am not sure what to do. I think I am still in shock.
Here is the background:
October 2014 - We had been together almost 2 years; we were planning our wedding. Sure we had arguments or disagreements but all in all we were happy and both very committed to our relationship and the success of our future marriage, as we had both had 2 failed marriages - third time is a charm, right? He used to always tell me that he believed in the saying the magic wasn't going to be in our wedding day but in staying married. We had some financial stressors because he got laid off and I was travelling a lot for work and was something gone for a week at a time. One night he left to pick up my son from work and left his phone at home. My son called his phone to see if he was almost there to pick him up and I am not sure what prompted me to do it but I got into his phone. I had his password because he told me what it was. My gut told me something wasn't right. And I was right. I saw messages he sent to a woman on Facebook but all I could see was that it said something about her being so damn beautiful but if I tried to move the message up I got an error saying the message had been deleted. So when he got home I told him I saw the messages and that he needed to explain himself. He told me it was someone he has a crush on a decade ago that he worked with but they were both married so they never were able to "date" although they had an attraction. She has moved to Florida (we live in WA state so you can't get any further apart unless you leave the USA) and she had contacted him on FB and he made a mistake by engaging in inappropriate conversations, reliving the attraction they had but couldn't act upon. He said he was feeling insecure because he wasn't working, I was gone a lot and basically it felt good to have someone give him all of the attention she was giving him. I told him he needed to delete her from FB and not talk to her anymore AND that if we were moving forward with our wedding plans (our date was 4 months away) that we needed to go to premarital counseling. He didn't hesitate, he said he loved me and was sorry and would do anything to fix his mistake.
And he seemed to have! He put in the tough work at counseling - - he even started seeing a male counselor that our female MC recommended he start seeing in addition to the couples sessions with me. He still to this day goes to his counselor. Things were good. They were really good. We got married. I got a job that didn't require me to travel. He got a job. We were living our happy lives. Or so I thought.
2 days ago I was at the store when I heard a text alert on my phone. When I pulled the phone out of my purse I realized it was my H phone not mines (we have the same type of phone). I checked it because, well if I had his phone he must have mine, maybe he is texting me.... It was not him. It was HER! Again! The woman from the October incident. Her text seemed innocent enough it said "I need a roofer for my Mom's house, do you know anyone?" I thought that was very weird..... I responded and just said "No I don't" I figured I would address it with him when I got home. She responded again saying "I am only in town 2 more days. Somehow I knew you wouldn't really see me" Now I am LIVID! So I am not sure why but I carried on a conversation with her - I told her that my wife knew we were talking and that it wasn't ok. Clearly that isn't what she is used to hearing because she said "Who are you? you can't retract what you said" She continued with saying things like "I am heartbroken that you are my one true love and you are choosing someone else again over me" I looked on his FB and sure enough it shows a message between the 2 of them but when I clicked on it I got the error saying it was deleted. I got home and checked phone records and found that he had a 45 minute call with her on 7/7; and also a couple 3-5 minute calls the day before and after that - and a couple text messages. So I confronted him. HE lied and said they were just catching up and it wasn't anything inappropriate. His lie continued all day until I finally told him about the texts some of the things she said. What he said next floored me! He told me he loves her. He hasn't seen her in 12 years! They talk about 2 times a year but he feels like he loves her. He made sure to point out he is not IN love with her; that he is IN love with me but that he loves her and often wonders if that is who he was supposed to be with but that he has no regrets and is glad he married me. I am devastated. I have been crying off and on for 2 days! How can he love 2 people? How am I supposed to be ok with sharing his heart? How can I live with this and won't I always worry when she will resurface? If she ever moved back to WA would I be in jeopardy over losing my husband? He says they never even dated but that they were very close and she was a good emotional pillar for him as he was struggling with his marriage. He said she never judged him no matter what he went through, blah blah blah..... I told him he needed to call her, with me there and tell her he can't talk to her anymore. He was nervous and very uncomfortable but he did it. He didn't want to do it because he said he didn't want to hurt either if us. Their call was uncomfortable and she was clearly upset and told him he was a liar and he quickly cut her off and said "I am married and I need to live by the vows I took and I can't talk to you anymore." And he hung up. She was in town - he was supposed to see her! He admitted to me that he told her he would see her. But he also said he wasn't planning on following through. He admitted to me that he told her that he loves her. HE also said he had no intention on really seeing her (not sure I can believe that!). 
I was so upset that I told him we are done! I told him by the end of August he needs to move out. I told him I didn't want the kids to know anything - I need time to figure out how to tell them (we do not have kids together). I told him we will focus on paying of joint bills so we can both walk away without having any financial ties. Even though I said all of these things in my heart I knew I didn't want it- - but I also know I don't want to feel like he "settled" for me, or that I wasn't good enough. 
He has apologized. He has cried. He has asked me to not divorce him. He begs for another chance. But throughout all of that still admits he loves this other woman "but I am not IN love with her" What does that even mean? Such crap! She has a part of my H heart!
Tonight I have NO idea where this came from but I told him he should go see her before she leaves town. I told him maybe seeing her will either end this or make him realize he wants to be with her. I told him he is losing his wife and family over her; he might as well go see if its what he really wants. I wanted his response to be NO WAY! But it wasn't, he contemplated it, he said if he did go see her it would only be to say goodbye. Then he said the next hour he didn't want to go see her because he was afraid if he did there was no chance I would ever forgive him. I told him several times I would rather know he was seeing her than to always worry that he wanted to see her so he needed to just do it because he wants to see her. It hurt me that he really thought about doing it. All I could think was "MAN, he really does love her if he is thinking about doing this!" Ultimately; or at least so far he has said he doesn't want to see her. That he is going to forget about her and try to save his marriage.
So - - what do I do? I am so heartbroken. I have not cried this much, ever in my LIFE! I told him he shouldn't have married me if he felt this way about someone else. It seems so unfair. I just don't know what to do. I am so lost. I am afraid. I love him so much and I don't want my marriage to fail; but I also am not sure how I can stay knowing how he feels about another woman.
PLEASE help! I need advice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband says that he seldom communicates with her. But then that she is a pillar for him. He's in contact with her a lot more than he's admitting.

He wants both of you. It's a typical cheater way of wanting what they want, they want it all. And deep down they do not care who they hurt. He's just sorry that he got caught. That's clear from his actions.

You don't need this in your life, do you? 

Tell him that it's time that he goes and finds out if she is the love of his life. Obviously he does not consider you that. (sorry)

If I were you, I'd call her or go see her. Ask her the extent of their relationship. If you do this, do not tell him that you are doing it because then he's work up a story with him.


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

His comment about her being an emotional pillar was from back when they worked together and were attracted to each other but couldn't be together because they were both married.
In a way I feel like I did "talk" to her because I was responding as him and I think I got more info that way than if I had called her myself. She made references to them being "friends" for so long and why would he throw that away; yet turned around and said he was her one true love.
I know this sounds naïve but I don't think they talk on a regular basis..... I truly do think she is that one chick who won't go away (or he doesn't want her to) and will just resurface every so often. I don't want to divorce him. I love him and the kids have been through so much already - I don't want him to leave; but I also feel like he is forcing my hand.
Am I just that dumb to wonder if he will let it and her go and be with me?


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Oh, I am so sorry. Elegirl is right, he is still lying to you. And I think deep down, you know it. I think that's why you told him to go see her. Because you know that your marriage is over, and him going to see her is like ripping the bandaid off.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So he had an emotional affair at the very least with this woman in the past. They are still having that affair on some level.

Why does he say that the marriage broke up? Have you ever talked to his ex about why?


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Let him go and work on yourself. Woman here and married for 35 years. I couldn't stay in my marriage, knowing that my husband loves another woman. See a psychologist and get your mindset in the right track. Your husband and this OW will continue on with their affair. You'll lose your mind in the end, if you don't work on your mindset. Sorry that you are in this predicament.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> So he had an emotional affair at the very least with this woman in the past. They are still having that affair on some level.
> 
> Why does he say that the marriage broke up? Have you ever talked to his ex about why?


I was wondering the same thing. 

Is this woman married?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

He says... he says.... he says.... that's all I really see in your post.

Stop putting reliance on his words and watch his actions.

- He kept in touch with her after being married.
- He lied to you and deleted FB messages so you couldn't read them.
- He lied to you about her being in town and if you hadn't found out... you really think that based on the 2 bullets above, he was going to spill the beans about it?

Just because he says he's sorry and he is "IN love with you," doesn't excuse his actions which are showing pretty clearly that he does not have any love or respect for you.

Telling him he should go see her.... I am chalking that up to a lapse in jugement on your part due to the confusion of it all. It was a test that backfired on you. You expected him to say "of course not honey! I'd never go do that" when in fact, what you're doing is opening the door to him, so it can be YOUR fault if he goes and sees her. Sometimes men test limits... you don't change the goal posts in the middle of the game. You tell them what is not OK and then you stick to it.

NO seeing her.
NO texting her.
NO calling her.
NO contact.

The end.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

"Holy Wall of Text, Batman!"

How did the two of you meet?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

He has already shown his true colours by lying to you about her, and yes he will do it again, if not with her, with someone else. He probably knows you love him very much but that love does not seem to be reciprocated. He ought to know how much this is hurting you and if so he doesn't care, he is only concerned with his own needs and feelings, not a good basis for a marriage. I would suggest you have to follow through on asking him to leave, get a good lawyer, do the 180 on him and start planning your exit. If he really wants to have you then make him fight for you, if he doesn't then he wasn't worth being with in the first place. Be prepared for realityto set in and him begging you to come back. If so he will have to make major steps , including IC and MC to get into your life again. You never know by then you may have moved on and won't want him back. To my mind he is self centred and callous and has been stringing you along long before you married.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

All I can tell you taking him back should not be an option.. 

Him fighting to get back is the only option.. 

It literally has to be you pushing him away and him crying and begging and fighting you to take him back.. BUT not AFTER he goes to see if this woman is for him.. That only makes you PLAN B again.. 

Again trust me I have taken my Ex wife back several times.. I was always PLAN B, I just didn't realize it.. I just didn't understand.. 

When you love someone you will do ANYTHING for them.. I would have stopped heaven and earth for my Ex wife.. Even now I still have some feelings for her.. But I know.. I know NOW we can never be unless she came begging and crawling back and it had to be for the right reasons and not because she lost her boyfriend/lover.. Even then it's a hard decision.. 

He either never leaves to see her and fights to keep you or let him go if he does.. 

I'm sorry I just wouldn't believe anything he has to say anymore. Just too many lies and half truths.. 

You're in shock but you're not stupid.. Just right now letting him go is very hard.. 

Please do not give him the answers.. Let him make his own choices.. I did that foolishly and again it just made it worse for me and my Ex..


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

Ironically his other marriages ended with him being cheated on! I have talked with his ex's but not specifically about their relationships but about him in a manner that they were given the opportunity to say if he had cheated - they always speak highly of him and say he was just not emotionally connected and cared more about work than his relationships. I knew this going into it - - and he made significant changes - - even stepping down from management because he said he wanted things to be different this time and he wanted to make his marriage to me a priority because he realizes and admits he didn't do that in his past.
She is no longer married. So, she is single!


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

Of course as the seriousness of this sinks in he has told me he does not want a divorce. He will do whatever he has to do to prove to me that he loves me and wants to be with me. He said he has been forced to look at things and he came to the realization that he doesn't love her; he loved the "thought" of her. He admits he doesn't even know her anymore - he is holding on to how she was a decade ago. He said it almost became a game that every once in a while they would reconnect and talk and it would relight the spark that he had about her from a decade ago! 
He has cried, begged for forgiveness and for me to not leave him. 
He said he will get rid of the feelings he has about her - and when faced with losing his wife and family he realizes he would lose everything for nothing because he doesn't want to be with her.
This man has never shed a tear with the exception of our wedding day as we exchanged vows - so to see him reduced to tears breaks my heart. 
I told him I can't share his heart with someone else and I know my worth - and I don't deserve this.
He said he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me and proving I am his everything.
I hate this! I am so confused. So hurt! When I cry he is right there to comfort me, apologizing and saying he messed up and wants to fix it. 
He made an emergent appoint with his counselor to go see him on Wednesday - he said he needs help because he doesn't know what to do or how to fix this and he is afraid of me leaving him.
He asked if we can go see our MC and I told him not right now.... I will go see her alone, so I made an appointment to do that and I see her next Monday.
I am heartbroken...... I want to believe him so badly! 
I don't want my marriage to end; but I don't want to share his heart or love either!


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

He will tell you anything you want to hear right now to keep you as he finds out if him and this other woman have a chance.. If he tries it out and it fails he still has you to fall back on..

So right now he thinks this woman might want to be with him but again you never know.. She might not after a few months.. So in turn he will have lost everything and it is obvious he doesn't.. 

I know if he could, he would love to "Separate" from you for a few weeks to "clear his head", which simply means I want to try it with this woman and if doesn't I will be back.. 

That being said, you should not give him those ideas.. He should make those choices and lie in the bed of sh!t he created with those lies.. 

But again I know its hard.. I know you want him NOT to go.. I know you want him to choose you.. Trust me I've been there.. 

In the end I can tell you as painful as it was and as broken as I might still be.. I am glad she left because I knew and know in my heart of hearts.. I would just be suffering through this all over again within the next few years.. I know I couldn't survive this sort of heartache ever again.. I am many things.. But this just honestly isn't in me.. 

I hope you win this.. But if not later on you will realize it was for the best.. This sh!t just takes time to get over.. I regret begging and crying the way I did to my Ex wife.. I really do.. I wish I could have held my head high and told her to get the fvck out instead of clutching onto her leg like a kid crying.. 

How I wished during those times I would just get shot and die in the line of duty so my family could be well off and I wouldn't have had to endure that... I know the story would have been we were working to be together and reconciling though it was furthest from the truth.. Crazy thoughts for crazy times.. 

Look if you told him get the fvck out I'm no ones second choice and he left. Then you know he was leaving anyways.. But if he begged you to stay and cut her off completely.. Then you won.. But can you live with this win.. 

Now is the time you have to go against the fear of losing him to get him back.. If he see's you mean business and you won't take his sh!t, he will be scared to lose you.. But if he feels he can step away for a bit to see he WILL do it.. 

You have to let him know if he walks out there is NO, NO, NO coming back.. That if he does you will call the COPS, you will make a scene.. He will be like scum of the earth to you.. Again you have nothing to lose here.. You cannot hold him here or trick him to stay.. You can't give him enough sex or love to change his mind right now..


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Good gosh woman, why are you putting up with a liar like this? Emotion/physical does it honestly matter. He lies to you about her and their relationship, whatever that relationship is.
He quits cold turkey, goes to counseling, or you should walk.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

confusedinseattle said:


> Of course as the seriousness of this sinks in he has told me he does not want a divorce. He will do whatever he has to do to prove to me that he loves me and wants to be with me. He said he has been forced to look at things and he came to the realization that he doesn't love her; he loved the "thought" of her. He admits he doesn't even know her anymore - he is holding on to how she was a decade ago. He said it almost became a game that every once in a while they would reconnect and talk and it would relight the spark that he had about her from a decade ago!
> He has cried, begged for forgiveness and for me to not leave him.
> He said he will get rid of the feelings he has about her - and when faced with losing his wife and family he realizes he would lose everything for nothing because he doesn't want to be with her.
> This man has never shed a tear with the exception of our wedding day as we exchanged vows - so to see him reduced to tears breaks my heart.
> ...


Funny, my Ex wife wrote much of that stuff in a card to me after getting caught the first time.. I will spend the rest of my life showing you I deserve you were her words.. I just ripped up that card and threw it out with some pics of her holding our newborn son in the hospital about 5 months ago.. 

When she was leaving me the last time I wanted to give her the card and the pics to remind her what she promised me and how she broke that promise along with our marriage vows.. To remind her how long it took for us to try to conceive our second son ( 3 years ).. Our first halloween together, first christmas... It was so cliche and melodramatic.. I felt like such a d!ck.. 

Good luck with your recovery.. Keep us posted.. Make sure he is utterly transparent..


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

He has said he does not and will not see her. He has blocked her on FB and has her as a blocked contact in his phone. He was going to delete her but he said that won't stop her from contacting him. So he left her as a blocked contact.
She leaves to go back to Florida in a couple of days and he has said he will not leave my side so I am not wondering if he is seeing her. I told him that isn't necessary and him going to see her won't change our outcome. He said he doesn't care he still does not want to see her. He said his phone call telling her he can't talk to her anymore and he was focusing on being a good husband and honoring his vows is all the closure he needs.
I have not backed down - I have stayed strong in telling him we are done! All of these doubts being exposed HERE, in this forum; not to him. He has asked me to not endure marriage and allow him another chance; told him no.
But in my heart I want to give him another chance.
This morning I mentioned which car I want in the divorce and he lost it; started bawling like a baby and said "You really aren't going to change your mind are you?" I said no & walked out of the room and left him there, sobbing. It was SO HARD to walk away


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here and has been in corporate management. Didn't you say that your husband was in management? He is playing you with his tears and sobbing. He knows that this would sway your decision. He still loves his mistress and told you so. This will end in a bad way. Work on yourself and walk away from this nightmare with dignity. You deserve a better husband; one who loves you that you do not share with another.


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this? 
Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing? 
Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

What do we know? We never met him and only know what you've told us. My first reaction is why do you want to stay with a man who treats you so poorly.

Experience tells me that a spouse who lies, tries to rug sweep, and finally admits to loving another is not committed to your marriage, and does not respect you. Of course this could change, but not overnight.

So he's going to see HIS counselor. How about MC for the two of you? He has issues he needs to resolve, but the relationship is crippled, at best. Over at worst.


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening! 
He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It is possible that when faced with losing his life he'll realize that he threw everything away for his fantasy. You've handled this well, the only possible way to salvage things is to take a hard line. If you'd begged him he would've jerked you around deciding what he wants. 

It's entirely possible that the water works are an act, and it's also possible that he does love you. He just imagined that he could have you and his wh0re. . . you've screwed up those plans.

I think you should continue the divorce, you taking a hard line has given you a position of strength with him. Tell him that if you mean that much to him he'll sign the papers after which time you'll consider dating him and see where it goes. It'll force him to pay up for his crap and it will give you breathing room, and most importantly it will let him experience the consequences of thinking he can have a side ho. 

If there's anything to save this hard line might do it. If he won't take you up on your deal you'll know just how important to are to him.

Good job, I firmly believe that if more people handled cheaters like you did more marriages could be saved. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

confusedinseattle said:


> You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening!
> He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP


It's far more likely that he's trying to manipulate you than it is anything else. This is what cheaters do, it's who they are.

BUT if you really want to hold out hope that he's a rare truly remorseful and repentant cheater, check out Chump Lady's post here for some things to watch for while you decide if he's for real or not.

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com


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## itbeme (May 2, 2015)

I'm a lurker here, never told my stories, there are too many. This is a "new Marriage" with this happening, personally I would mark it up as a lesson learned and take it from there. I've been married twice was 14 the 1st time lasted 12 years. My 2nd now going on 29yrs still there but he had to make me believe in him. I did with all my being till one day after 17yrs the proverbial poo hit the fan and I lost all trust in him because he at one point thought he was falling in love w/someone he worked with. Now it has been almost 12yrs and the trust ,I feel will never be the same. He gave something to another that I felt was mine, HIS LOVE. Think long and hard in my opinion MC is not what is needed, IC for the both to try to get yourselves at peace w/who you are and figure out why life is as it is for you and take it from there. I know this sounds mean, but, you said third times' a charm, it's also an out


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

confusedinseattle said:


> You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening!
> He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP


Actually, I'll go against the flow and recommend that you give him a chance. The phone records don't show much contact. It seems like she was chasing him and he was tempted but hadn't given in (though you'll never know if he would have). What are the chances that you meet someone who might be better?


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm sorry you are going through this and I know how you feel. Last summer I found out my husband was having an affair. He lied about the details, made it seem like it was just a "friendship" and I almost had hope that he would stop talking to her and work on us. But I found out more and more. Found evidence from the phone records and a letter he wrote to her.

Even as I confronted him with proof, he still lied. Looking back I realize that he was happy not rocking the boat. While I believed we were ok and working on our marriage, he was still talking to her. So he had the best of both worlds.

It wasn't until his affair was no longer a secret that he admitted how he felt about her. He had feelings for her and no longer felt anything for me. I was in denial for a long time but now I see things for what they really are.

I was hoping he'd choose me, that he'd end the affair, realize he made a mistake, and want to love me. He didn't and now I'm moving on.

It's hard I know, because you love him and everything is so fresh...the pain and the confusion. In time you'll get some clarity and know which direction to go. 

It took me a good year to come to terms and be ok with this. Even though it still hurts but it's not as devastating.

And just remember---- he can't love you but also love another woman. You deserve to be the only one.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

confusedinseattle said:


> Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
> Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
> Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
> I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
> But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.


Just read your post...

I'm a believer in saving a marriage. 
If he's willing to take the steps, then give him a chance. I know that's what I would do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

confusedinseattle said:


> Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
> Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
> Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
> I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
> But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.


The reason that I don't think staying with him is a good idea is that he is not being honest with you. He has told you just enough to cover his behind. There is a lot more to this relationship. Why do I say that?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like he was cheating on his ex with at least an emotional affair. He has to admit that.

This woman did not get emotional about her relationship with him based on very fews contacts in the last few years. There has to have been an ongoing relationship with a lot more contact then he has admitted to.

He could be contacting her from work. Or he could have a burner phone. Or some kind of chat problem that hides the chats.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

confusedinseattle said:


> She responded again saying "I am only in town 2 more days. Somehow I knew you wouldn't really see me".


 Her telling him that she knew that he "wouldn't really see" her speaks volumes about his lack of real commitment to her. She has been an out of state ego feeding fantasy that he has used sporadically for many years, and he does not want to make it real with her even when given the chance. He has stated that he loves her but is not in love with her. So many cheaters use this I love you but am not in love with you phrase when leaving the marriage, that the initials of this phrase are often used on sites to say that this happened. What I am saying here is that it would be worse if he told you that he loved you but was not in love with you. 

You are right to be upset, but there is a chance that this marriage can be saved if that is what you want. You pushing him to see her even when he resists needs to stop as it is a dishonest strategy. Stop playing games and decide what you want to do. There is a reason that you both have each been divorced 2 times, and you need to both find out why and make sure that you are not doing those things here.


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

It has been a rough couple days. I have read everything you have all said. I have actually read a lot of it several times. I hear what everyone is saying and a big part of me KNOWS everyone is right.
He has spent the last few days literally begging me to not leave him. He has gotten on his knees; he has sobbed, he has said he will live the rest of his life under lock and key if that is what he has to do. He will go to counseling, he will give me full access to all of his social media, no passwords that I won’t have etc.
He also said this has forced him to look at what he said. He said although he said he loves her but isn’t in love with her he has of course retracted that and said this has forced him to look at it and see that he doesn’t even know her anymore. And he didn’t know her that well when they worked together 12 years ago when this all started. He admits to having an EA with her but continues to say it was never physical because they were both married. Once he was divorced she had already moved from Washington State to Florida so he said it almost became a game….. She stroked his ego; told him how much she cared about him, how he was the one that she wanted and couldn’t have, that she still wanted a chance to be with him etc. He said they stayed in contact but not consistently; and he felt like one of them would reach out when things weren’t good in their current relationship. He said it was game. He knew he didn’t ever want to be with her because he didn’t even know the real her. He like the idea of her. Someone who wanted him. Someone who stroked his ego etc…. He said he had no intention on seeing her when she was in town; and even pointed out that HE is the one who made sure we had plans as a family that weekend – even inviting other family over for a BBQ. He said he knew going to see her wasn’t what he wanted. HE was ok with keeping it the way it was – a “game” that he could play when he wanted, or how he wanted. When he felt like he needed it. He said she is the one who reached out to him this last time and said they only talked on 7/7 & again a quick call on 7/8 - - he said they didn’t talk again until the FB message she sent telling him she was in town and wanted to see him; that is the message he deleted. 
He states he never wants to talk to her again and he has his closure with the phone call he made to her. He realizes he is losing his wife over an IDEA of this woman. He doesn’t know her well enough to love her; only what he remembers from over a decade ago.
I have not changed my course with him. I continue to tell him I can’t live this way or feel like I am always watching over my shoulder or wondering when it might happen again. When he cries and begs it breaks my heart – I feel so bad for him and I just want to console him; but I don’t. I let him sit in his own discomfort.
This is NOT what I wanted. This is NOT what I want for my marriage! I do not know that I can come back from this.
He is a good man in so many ways – I am struggling with losing someone like him – for all the good that he is……


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

confusedinseattle said:


> Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
> Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
> Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
> I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
> But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.


I guess that I will be the lone voice in the wilderness. Yes, it is very possible that he may be remorseful and wants to reconcile with you. Everything that you stated so far, could portray this situation as a man who is a lying, cheating miserable piece of crap that considers you a PLAN B, OR a man who got caught up in an emotional affair with an old flame (which still makes him a lying, cheating miserable piece of crap) and now truly realizes the damage that he has caused to the best thing that ever happened to him. As others have said, we can only go on what you tell us here on TAM. I think you are brave in your staunch stance on divorcing him, but if you truly believe that there is a possibility of reconciliation, you need to tell him that and lay down your demands, starting with a letter of NO CONTACT to the OW. Oh, and your suggestion to him, of going to see the OW to verify whether or not he wants to be with her vs. you: BAD IDEA. As someone earlier stated, that simply makes you the PLAN B. He MUST cut her off completely and he MUST do it NOW. There are many, MANY other requirements that he will have to fulfill (which if he means what he says, he will do with the UTMOST enthusiasm in order to help you recover from this debacle), ie. surrendering ALL passwords, deleting his FB account, confessing absolutely EVERY aspect of the relationship with the OW, just to name a few. 

As many others here on TAM know, most reconciliations still in end up in divorce. However, I know I'm in the minority when I say that but based on what you have said, I do think there is the possibility here, that he played with fire and realized the mistake. And, yes, he may pay for it by losing his wife, but he may be sincere and truly want only you. I have read many, MANY threads here on TAM and know that so many TAM members in the CWI sub-forum have been badly burned by their spouses. Many of them are quick to declare a cheating spouse/marriage, a lost cause, and rightfully so in many cases. But every now and then, a marriage can be salvaged and even thrive from an infidelity situation. They are rare, but it does happen. Are you and your husband Christian? If so, I cannot recommend prayer enough. James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him". I promise, you will not be sorry.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I will add my voice of cautious optimism.

The way you describe his own description of his story is how I envisaged it from what you wrote. He had an ongoing, fantasy ego boost from an old crush, a boost that provided nice, soothing background noise. He felt great - a wife he thought he was in love with & a fantasy gf who said all the right things. He didn't have the moral courage to do the right thing when you got married & now you have come to this juncture.

I have to tell you that I admire your strength of character. I think your instincts have been 100% correct.

What I could suggest is that you tell him you plan to go ahead with the divorce, but he can try to prove to you that he has had a true epiphany and is a better person. He has to prove it through actions, not words. He must research on how to help you heal from his affair; he must get counseling and stick with it; he must listen, learn, tell you the entire truth about the A, and take responsibility.

And you can watch and learn. There's really no fire here. You can take some time to make such a momentous decision. I would keep moving forward with the divorce, but allow that he can work to restore some trust. I think your determined approach has brought him this far & I wouldn't backtrack now if I were you.


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## Cindyxv (Jul 22, 2015)

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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nobody here can tell you if your marriage is worth saving. Only you can see if he is truly remorseful. You are taking the appropriate steps. Glad you are going to the MC by yourself the first time. Both of you should go to IC as well.

Both of you should read the books, Surviving an Affair and Not Just Friends. Ask yourself these questions. Can you live with the mistrust you feel? For years possibly until it can be built up again. Can he live with your mistrust? Is he really willing to do what it takes to build the trust again? How will he deal with your triggers? What is he willing to do to make you trust him again? What are your boundaries? How will you enforce them?

Only you can decide if your marriage is worth saving. You don't have to make that decision right now. Just watch until you are ready. Always remember Actions speak louder than words. I'm sorry for what you are going through. It is so unfair. Many of us will be here to support you what ever you decide. Hugs


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## confusedinseattle (Jul 20, 2015)

Last night my H went to his Dad's house to talk to him. They have a strained relationship and he feels like he has never quite lived up to his Dad's expectations and that his Dad has never been "proud" of him etc..... He actually TOLD his Dad what he did! This is a HUGE step. HE not only admitted what he did he asked for his Dad's advice on how he can fix it. His Dad is very religious so he suggested church, prayer and a lifestyle change. He told my H that there is no possible way that he loves this woman because there was no time invested, it was mindful or mental lust. My H who has pushed back from his Dad's belief's and prefers to stay away from his Dad actually went to him, listened to him, and now wants to try to be more like him. He came home with a book that his Dad gave him, Too Close Too soon. He started reading it last night. He asked me to go to church with him tomorrow night. We normally go only on Sunday mornings - never during the weekday services. But I did tell him I would go with him.
He woke up this morning with a proposition. He couldn't sleep the night before and so he started doing research and found a marriage boot camp (the same people who do the reality show, except its for normal people not celebrities) that is in Dallas, TX starting August 12. He wants us to go before I make a decision to divorce him.
He priced out airfare, hotel and the cost of the boot camp. It is expensive and I told him I didn't think we should spend that kind of money on this camp when we should focus on paying down joint debt so the inevitable divorce is less financial stress but he has asked me to at least consider it.
He says he is ready to do the work and come clean, accept responsibility and save our marriage.
Just when I think I can't be more confused.......


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think a marriage boot camp is a great idea -> if he goes by himself.

He needs to get his sh!t together with his own IC. You sound very healthy and reasonable and shouldn't have to spend your dollars on an expensive boot camp after such a short marriage that he has royally effed up.

I think he has huge work to do to prove that he's worth your reconsidering your decision. That is his work, not yours. 

Do you feel that you have all the details of his A?


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

I JUST had a conversation with my friend (who lives in Bothell BTW) who is going through the SAME thing. You need to tell him that you won't share and until he sorts his "feelings" out you will be living your own life. I'm sorry, but you are worth more than that. It's pretty clear that he doesn't really love her. He may think that he does, but he is in fantasy land. What most likely will happen is he will go see her and be with her and maybe date her for a while, but then realize it was all in his head and come crawling back to you. I wouldn't take him back, but that's entirely up to you.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

In my opinion, you have a very tricky decision before you. As I said, I would take some time and not back down from the divorce decision. It is forcing him to stop eating cake & face reality.

You have already been through this dance with him and that turns out to have been a charade. After all, he convinced you to marry him after you discovered this the first time. Clearly, he was lying then. Facing divorce might shock him into honesty, but you can't gauge that, I would imagine, unless some time has passed.

What did he think would happen? That he would stay married to you, but continue with her secretly? Indefinitely?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> In my opinion, you have a very tricky decision before you. As I said, I would take some time and not back down from the divorce decision. It is forcing him to stop eating cake & face reality.
> 
> You have already been through this dance with him and that turns out to have been a charade. After all, he convinced you to marry him after you discovered this the first time. Clearly, he was lying then. Facing divorce might shock him into honesty, but you can't gauge that, I would imagine, unless some time has passed.
> 
> What did he think would happen? That he would stay married to you, but continue with her secretly? Indefinitely?


I think that's correct. He didn't think she'd find out and figured if she did he could cry and bullsh!t her. That hasn't happened so now he's in panic mode. .... given that he blew his second chance he has a severe credibility problem. I think there is a high probabilitiy that if she takes him back it's only a matter of time until skvnk is back in the picture and deeper underground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your husband is a cake eater. And a bit of a rotter and a cad, TBH.

He is stringing you both along in a way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Marriage counseling is for marriages. He decided to end his part of the bargain awhile back. Set the money on fire it'll be of more use.

HE needs individual counseling and you need to decide if you want to take that risk and the offer him the chance of reconciliation.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm with MattMatt here. This all seems like total manipulation to me. Your husband is sorry he got caught.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

You can always remarry him.. 

You can go to all the counseling you want with him.. He could still live in the house and still pay you child support or whatever.. You could just toss it back into the bank account like you were still married.. If you decide it can't work out 12 months after the divorce all he would need to do is pack his bags and GTFO..

My Ex-wife had at least 3 EA that I know of.. 
I think she cheated right before the first EA that was going PA.. I caught her 2 weeks before he came in.. But she shut down in the sex department and treated me like I had the plague.. But all the contact I seen started months AFTER she shut down on me.. So I think she had a PA and the guy cut her off and then she jumped online into this EA heading towards PA.. 

Then during the last EA my mom tells me not long ago, that my brother caught her with someone or something.. But she can't remember because she is old and he is dead to tell me.. But she swore him not to tell me since we already were working out issues from her last EA.. 

Of course I then caught her in LAST PA.. 

It was her last PA because she left me.. 

Do you know much mental anguish I went through with her.. How many times she broke my trust.. How many times we went to marriage counseling..

You know after her breaking my trust so much.. She fvcking owed me.. She could have caught me fvcking a whole high school cheerleading team and she couldn't say sh!t to me.. 

But I never cheated.. It NEVER crossed my mind.. I just never thought of the concept of even a revenge affair.. Again it was so out in left field for me to even think of it.. All I EVER wanted for us to be happy.. I loved my wife to pieces.. I would have stopped heaven and earth for her.. The sun rose and set on my wife as far as I was concerned..

Being a NYC Detective I could have had many women.. I went away for training in other states and met other female cops that I could have nailed.. I have had other women in other states offer me sex.. I said I'm sorry I can't.. I love my wife too much.. Guys were like WTF is wrong with you.. But I couldn't, I imagined her at home with my kids and I'm here doing what ? fvcking some strange woman ? 
For what ? 
I wouldn't be able to look at my wife in the face ever again.. 

When we made love I would look at her in awe.. She was so beautiful. She would say what are you doing ? I would say you're just so fvcking beautiful I love you.. She would giggle and call me a jerk and pull me close to her.. This is after being together almost 20 years..

But with all of this she fvcking left me in the end.. She fvcking owed me.. She owed me a chance, like I had given her so, so many times in the past.. 

But she didn't.. 

She tortured me emotionally at the end.. I asked her why ? What did I do ? Why is she doing this to me like this in the end ? Why does she go out to fvck this man when I come home.. Why is she answering his call and leaving me to go fvck him and come home again..

What was the heinous crime I did to receive this kind of treatment.. 

She gave me zero answer.. 

I wanted to kill myself I just couldn't live another day without her.. I just had ZERO coping skills for this type of thing.. 

But even with all of that I didn't want her to leave.. 

Today I'm on top of the world.. I have the kids, she pays me child support. I make 6x more than she does.. In next few months I will be making maybe 12x more than she does.. But she will still be paying me child support.. I'm in better shape than I was in the past 20 years of my relationship and marriage with her.. I am dating women I would never imagine I could.. They are 10 years younger than her and make much more than her.. Its like winning the lottery.. 

As much as I love her I know I can never take her back, assuming she wanted to come back.. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish I could have fixed what was wrong with her.. She was a good person.. She really was.. I know the story paints a different picture of her.. Something is broken in her and I can't fix it.. But I wish I could.. 

But this is what she wanted.. Even though she didn't pick up a finger to get divorced or file or anything.. I did it all crying and begging all the way, even at my lawyers office.. What a SAP I was and still am in many ways.. 

But this is what she wanted.. Next month on the 13th I take her back into family court to get more child support out of her.. Because she is refusing to work more than the 10 hours a week..

It hurts me to hurt her like this.. It makes me cry.. But fvck her.. She made her fvcking bed with this piece of sh!t she left me for. This piece of sh!t that drives my truck to do his bullsh!t construction/handyman work.. Imagine Louisiana was leveled after katrina.. The country had a shortage of sheet rock ( dry wall ) because all of it was going there to rebuild entire communities.. And this guy had a hard time getting a job over there to rebuild homes.. He had to worked for home Depot.. He rented a room.. He couldn't even afford to buy a home.. Homes were going for 80k there.. He couldn't come up with 8k for a down payment.. 

This is what she left me for ? A man 10 years older than me ? A foot shorter at a height of 5'3" ? Who has NOTHING.. He will have to work the rest of his life.. He doesn't work he don't get paid.. My pension check is more than their combined take home.. 

I fvcking begged her to stay ?
I begged her to give me a chance ?

After everything she put me through all those times.. 
Do you know how many times I had to find the fvcking love for her again ? 
How many times I had to see the good in her when she didn't see it in herself ?
How many times I had to swallow my insecurities for the sake of our marriage ? 

When she was at a motel fvcking this guy, while pretending to be at a job party.. At 11 PM my youngest was getting worried about his mother.. I had to tell him it's okay mom will be home soon.. She is allowed to have fun.. 

But inside I was screaming with panic and insecurity.. But I sucked it up and said to myself.. Stop she is a good wife, don't go down this road..

How fvcking wrong I was..

But deep down I still care for her.. But I will never admit it to anyone but people here.. 

I am not saying your husband is my Ex wife.. All I am saying is you can remarry him.. That if he makes it easy.. The divorce will be quick and he can prove to you for as long as he wants or you want him to. To show you that he deserves your love and marriage again..


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## Prbruce1 (Jul 23, 2015)

I hate when a good women's goes this type of **** there are not lot of good women's out there that I know he don't appreciate but he will when you find someone better but I've seen my sister go threw the same thing twice I asked her how she handle all of it she said she try's her best so I went to find something to help her I didn't want to se her sad no more I found this program that I thought might help I purchased it and sent it to her she thanked me over and over she said it help her deal with a lot even the emotion that she kept in here a link How to Survive An Affair hope it helps a good as it did for my sis


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

My hopeful nature is overcoming my cynical side here. Your husband DOES appear to be very intent on putting in the effort to change. Most cheaters would just rugsweep, want their affair kept quiet, push you to get over it, etc. Your guy told his own dad what he did and is taking steps to invest in counselling instead of trying to convince you it's a waste of money. He does seem to have begun to understand that he didn't really love this woman, he just had an infatuation with who he imagined her to be.

I'd keep giving him chances, but with trust comes verification! And a post-nup.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

I read your updates and I can see how you're torn.

He sounds like he's making the necessary steps to make things right. I know if I was in your shoes, my heart would have been won over and I would say ok, let's make this work. But that's just me. And I'm not that strong and I don't like to see others in pain or hurting, even if they hurt me first.

I've always hoped my stbx would have shown remorse like yours is. But in a way I'm kind of glad he hasn't, it's made letting go a lot easier. Because I'm also reflecting back on prior years, moments, and memories. Not just the situation with the current affair. It's been eye opening and I'm learning a lot about myself and what I want for the future.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I'd keep giving him chances, but with trust comes verification! And a post-nup.


The Post-nup is what caused my ex wife to screw up.. When I caught her I told her I wanted a post nup if she wanted to continue in the marriage.. It cost me 2k to get written up.. She delayed and delayed signing it.. It forced her now to run out the door before she wanted to because I could see she wasn't being truthful and I could see she kept making excuses about getting a lawyer to look it over.. When she finally did, she came back and said the lawyer said I shouldn't sign this I will get nothing if we divorce.. I loudly said I thought you wanted to fix this ? Why would you even be considering divorce ? 

She said nothing.. 

A month later I caught her buying the other man a Xmas present and had it ship to her work place.. 

Personally I think this is nothing but a knee jerk reaction his part.. 

I mean put yourself in his shoes.. This other woman might not take him now.. Yea he can go and tell her, I'm sorry I was fooling myself.. I always loved you and hope she says the same.. But she might not and he or she might realize later on if they did get together, that it really was only a fvck thing.. That they really weren't compatible at all.. 

People are stupid, but they are not that stupid.. But neither should you be evaluating your relationships at such a critical moment when you're going to possibly lose both of them.. 

I'm 48 I understand what love is.. I loved my ExGF. I will never love anyone like I did my Ex wife though.. But I loved her nonetheless and it was more an adult realistic love.. But in the end I sadly had to let her go because of many issues she brought to bear on this relationship.. Hopefully one day she gets it and life brings us around together one day.. 

I'm pretty sure he is no kid either having been married.. Now he is back peddling saying something different about what he felt and NOW he realizes it really wasn't love.. NOW.. Because his wife is playing the hard line.. But if she said,* "baby I love you so much don't leave me, but I understand you need to see.. Please come back to me.."
*

Guess what.. There is no fvcking doubt in my mind this guy would have went to see what was up.. He would have sat there for days fvcking this other woman and would have thought he loved her.. 

And he would have come home to leave his wife.. 

But *ONLY *because she pretty much said to him FVCK YOU and won this staring contest did he crumble.. If she didn't have the balls to let him go and tell him to fvck off he would *NOT* be looking to stay..

Only when I became the d0uchebag to my Ex wife did I garner any respect from her.. Only when she realized that if you keep poking the tiger, the tiger bites back did she change her tune.. Even if she didn't mean it.. She knew I wasn't someone to fvck with anymore.. 

This is why I have physical custody of my kids.. This is why she pays me child support.. Because when I finally told her you want war, I will give you war and I brought it home right to her door step.. Only then did she blink.. 

But if I would have listened and understood and grasped what many were saying here in the *BEGINNING*.. *IF* I only had the balls *WHEN I WAS SUPPOSE TO*.. 

I still *might* have been married today.. 

I am not saying she should be a tyrant about this.. But he fvcked up BIG TIME.. He told her that he loves ANOTHER WOMAN.. Those words do not come out fvcking easy.. You just don't say that sh!t that easy..

Just like common sense tells you not to go into a movie theater and scream fire. You also don't tell your spouse you might love someone else.. 

Its affair fog.. Not stupid affair fog..

This is more like.. OH SH!T, this is falling apart fast on me.. I need to pull out all the stops.. 

Spend half that money for that boot camp on a divorce lawyer and be ready to pull the plug.. 

Its no longer babe lets do this to fix this.. It should be no, you STFU and do what I tell you so I can feel safe now.. Once I feel safe and secure then you can try to fix this with me all you want.. 

But until then.. There is no fixing until I feel safe and on top of this..

What is reconciliation ? 
Its the cheater basically begging for forgiveness, being transparent and such and it's the Betrayed spouse learning how to suck it up and deal with it and learning how to let it all go and eventually get over it.. So all the hard work is on the Betrayed Spouse.. All the other person has to do is basically be a suck up to the spouse.. But the Betrayed Spouse is the one dealing with all the emotional issues *LONG AFTER *what the cheater thinks it should be over with, done and forgiven.. 

Yes I know there is more to working on reciliation and I know the cheater does have more work than what I described above, but take it from a guy who has been through several reconciliations, that is what it really boiled down to.. 4 years later when you're getting a panic attack why your wife isn't home.. You are the one trying to calm yourself down and rationalize it so as not to have issues with your wife when she gets home for no reason but because of a trigger.. Because you want to be the better person.. You want to move on from it.. 

Anyone can reconcile.. But nothing says you have to be married to do it..


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