# Just found out about old ONS with co-worker. should I confront?



## MrSamsonite

My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.

Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.

I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.

Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.

I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


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## TexasMom1216

I understand how you feel, I really do. I think that this issue is between you and your wife, though, not this other man. Your wife is a grown woman and made a choice, a choice she regrets and is ashamed of and is sorry for. Honestly, I’d be more upset that you had to find out instead of her coming clean years ago. The lying for over a decade would concern me. A lot. I feel like reaching out to that man would hinder any healing, rather than solving anything, and possibly cause trouble for you when you have been through enough. That said, I’m not a man, and I know men feel differently about these things.


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## Divinely Favored

Why the hell is she still working with AP.? I would require a poly to see if there is more and she would have to quit or transfer.


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## Openminded

No threats.


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## Diana7

The first thing I would have done was ask that they stop working together. Can't believe that they have carried on all these years and that you appear to have no issues with it except for wanting to threaten him. It was your wife who cheated on you not him. 

I would also be very concerned at how easily she was able to deceive you all these years, and it's good that the friends ex husband told you. 
I am not sure how you can trust her after all this deception, I couldn't. She told a friend but not you.


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## MrSamsonite

Diana7 said:


> The first thing I would have done was ask that they stop working together. Can't believe that they have carried on all these years and that you appear to have no issues with it except for wanting to threaten him. It was your wife who cheated on you not him.
> 
> I would also be very concerned at how easily she was able to deceive you all these years, and it's good that the friends ex husband told you.
> I am not sure how you can trust her after all this deception, I couldn't. She told a friend but not you.


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## sideways

So she's worked with this guy for the past twelve years and you're convinced that there was only this ONS?? And she never came Clean on her own volition and you had to find out from someone else.

You are in denial.


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## MrSamsonite

We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.

I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted. 

I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.

Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


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## loblawbobblog

I recently found out about a string of one night stands that my wife had 22 years ago, so I totally understand your position. It's great you confronted her and are in both IC and MC. I totally relate to your feeling that you'd have left her back then had you known but feel differently now. 

As for telling the AP, I'd get his phone number and leave a calm, measured text telling him you know about the ONS and leave it at that. No threats. If I knew the person my wife cheated on me with, I'd want to do the same thing for closure.

I'd be a little skeptical that it happened only once, though. They've worked closely together for the past 12 years. I'd press her on that if you haven't already.


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## MrSamsonite

I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


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## BeyondRepair007

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


I pretty much don't agree with a lot of your thinking about ONS and them working together etc.

But that's resolved to your satisfaction and you're asking a specific question about confronting the OM.

You'll see a lot of stories here on TAM where a BS confronted the OM/OW. Some BS feel like this is a _must_ some rather would stay away. I personally fall on your side and want to rub the OM face in it. I wouldn't want the WW to tell him... how can you trust that interaction? I wouldn't want her to interact with him at all! Ever!

You could confront him but there's potential for things to go wrong. What if he told you they have been doing it regularly? Sure he could be lying just to piss you off. Or not. Now you have a bunch of new BS to figure out.

Overall I think it's up to you, whatever you need to heal. But you have to stay in control of your temper and be ready to handle any fallout.

Good Luck with this!


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## MrSamsonite

loblawbobblog said:


> I recently found out about a string of one night stands that my wife had 22 years ago, so I totally understand your position. It's great you confronted her and are in both IC and MC. I totally relate to your feeling that you'd have left her back then had you known but feel differently now.
> 
> As for telling the AP, I'd get his phone number and leave a calm, measured text telling him you know about the ONS and leave it at that. No threats. If I knew the person my wife cheated on me with, I'd want to do the same thing for closure.
> 
> I'd be a little skeptical that it happened only once, though. They've worked closely together for the past 12 years. I'd press her on that if you haven't already.


Thank you. I could easily do that myself. To be honest, making her do it is kind of my **** way of forcing her to carry some of the pain that I feel. I totally understand the skepticism. I've felt it too. The way the story came to me was as a single event. She saw a therapist who advised her that since it was a one time thing and over that there was no reason to risk her marriage by telling me. (That is her story....IDK...I do know she saw a therapist around that time for unknown reasons). We have been as honest as I feel we could be since the reveal. I understand "cheaters, cheat" mantra. I really don't think that's the case here. Anyway, I have pressed. She swears on a river of tears that this is everything. There is nothing else for me to do. I can't think of a single one of our friends that don't look at us and wish they had our marriage. I'm not going to give that up because of one mistake so long ago and the opinion (but I do not mind hearing them) that she cheated a lot more often on my by people that have never met us.


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## MrSamsonite

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I pretty much don't agree with a lot of your thinking about ONS and them working together etc.
> 
> But that's resolved to your satisfaction and you're asking a specific question about confronting the OM.
> 
> You'll see a lot of stories here on TAM where a BS confronted the OM/OW. Some BS feel like this is a _must_ some rather would stay away. I personally fall on your side and want to rub the OM face in it. I wouldn't want the WW to tell him... how can you trust that interaction? I wouldn't want her to interact with him at all! Ever!
> 
> You could confront him but there's potential for things to go wrong. What if he told you they have been doing it regularly? Sure he could be lying just to piss you off. Or not. Now you have a bunch of new BS to figure out.
> 
> Overall I think it's up to you, whatever you need to heal. But you have to stay in control of your temper and be ready to handle any fallout.
> 
> Good Luck with this!


Well now! That's an interesting take. You are right that things could go wrong. I hadn't considered that.


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## masterofmasters

married co-workers who have work affairs/one-night stand must quit their job, or at the very least one of them moves to a different department = reconciliation 101.

i have no idea how you put up with your wife still working with that clown.


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## A18S37K14H18

You only know the tip of the iceberg.

She did NOT tell you for 12 years.

She only told you once you knew.

What did she tell you about why she did this?

What did she say to you about why she chose this particular man?

I mean there obviously was a build uo that led to her having sex with him.

How long before she had sex with him did she know she was going to have sex with him?

Did she primp and preen for him? Did she buy new lingirie for the event?

Did she wax or shave ahead of time?

When and where did they do the deed?

Did he wear a condom?

Did either of them take pics or vids of their encounter?

If they only had sex that one day (and I highly doubt it was only one time), how many times did they make out and grope each other leading up to it?

She was so distraught she had to go to counseling but she was NOT distraught enough to get away from him and no longer work with him and see him and talk to him at work after this all these years.

She was just fine seeing and working with him with both of them knowing what they had done.

She was good with you intetacting with him after the fact even though both he and she knew what they had done.

The amount of disrespect she showed you by allowing that to happen all those times is stunning.

What has your counselor said to you about any and all of this?


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## jonty30

MrSamsonite said:


> Well now! That's an interesting take. You are right that things could go wrong. I hadn't considered that.


A couple of points.
1. She is telling you what she thinks she has to in order to avoid further prying. It's quite common for the cheating spouse to only reveal what has to be revealed.
2. A lie detector test is almost always necessary, for two reasons. The first is to get at the truth. The other reason is a rebuke to her actions. If she knows that a lie detector will always be demanded, she will be less likely to be wayward.


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## MrSamsonite

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I pretty much don't agree with a lot of your thinking about ONS and them working together etc.
> 
> But that's resolved to your satisfaction and you're asking a specific question about confronting the OM.
> 
> You'll see a lot of stories here on TAM where a BS confronted the OM/OW. Some BS feel like this is a _must_ some rather would stay away. I personally fall on your side and want to rub the OM face in it. I wouldn't want the WW to tell him... how can you trust that interaction? I wouldn't want her to interact with him at all! Ever!
> 
> You could confront him but there's potential for things to go wrong. What if he told you they have been doing it regularly? Sure he could be lying just to piss you off. Or not. Now you have a bunch of new BS to figure out.
> 
> Overall I think it's up to you, whatever you need to heal. But you have to stay in control of your temper and be ready to handle any fallout.
> 
> Good Luck with this!


There is nothing I can do about them working together. It is a unique job. You cannot transfer. You work here, or you quit. Quitting is not an option. It is very difficult to not be in the area at the same time as another person. It has been done on rare occasion. When it happens, it always causes a lot of discussion amongst the others as to why. I know this "thing" is long passed and over. I can discuss this with my wife. I will think about it.


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## sideways

"I cannot explain how I know, but I do".

Not trying to be a jerk here, but you didn't know about it for twelve Years and you never found out on your own suspicion. You had to be told about it from someone else and now you just know??


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## D0nnivain

I think after 12 years they have reached a work together but nothing else dynamic. Don't upset that balance by making her talk to him about anything. If you happen to run into him because say you drop by to take your wife out to lunch you can say anything you want to him in private not in front of any witnesses but don't make your wife your messenger to him.


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## Rus47

jonty30 said:


> A couple of points.
> 1. She is telling you what she thinks she has to in order to avoid further prying. It's quite common for the cheating spouse to only reveal what has to be revealed.
> 2. A lie detector test is almost always necessary, for two reasons. The first is to get at the truth. The other reason is a rebuke to her actions. If she knows that a lie detector will always be demanded, she will be less likely to be wayward.


This! Schedule and take her to polygraph. ASAP.


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## jonty30

MrSamsonite said:


> There is nothing I can do about them working together. It is a unique job. You cannot transfer. You work here, or you quit. Quitting is not an option. It is very difficult to not be in the area at the same time as another person. It has been done on rare occasion. When it happens, it always causes a lot of discussion amongst the others as to why. I know this "thing" is long passed and over. I can discuss this with my wife. I will think about it.


I get you on the unique skill set job.
She could only move from airport to airport with her skill set.


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## GusPolinski

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


You’re not unreasonable for wanting to confront him, though I’d advise that you avoid making overt threats.

You’re anywhere from unreasonable to naive for not insisting that she find employment elsewhere, though.

Also, if OM is married, inform his spouse of the ONS.


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## SunCMars

Is this man married?

Was he married then? 
To who?

I would let his wife know, right before he retired.
Any wives he has had.


Why tell the tale then?

If you blow the whistle now, it will be a couple years of tension.
And, the tension at the workplace could get out of hand.


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## ccpowerslave

MrSamsonite said:


> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


This could backfire big time.

For example, I don’t react well to being threatened (I am not the AP) however if someone threatens me then I escalate. In fact, I might go out of my way to screw them up even harder. You’re not going to scare the guy unless you’re a scary guy who can do something to him. In this case he still works with her.

What if you give him the “I know what you did last summer” and his response is he has been banging her the whole time and does so every day on break where she does all kinds of nasty stuff with him?

Unless you know the answer, better to suck it up like you did with your wife’s transgression.


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## Rus47

ccpowerslave said:


> This could backfire big time.


OP’s WW is the one who betrayed him. The AP just put a notch on his belt, took advantage of what was offered.

There are nothing but downsides to confronting the AP and no upsides. Nothing good can possibly result.


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## loblawbobblog

A18S37K14H18 said:


> You only know the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> She did NOT tell you for 12 years.
> 
> She only told you once you knew.
> 
> What did she tell you about why she did this?
> 
> What did she say to you about why she chose this particular man?
> 
> I mean there obviously was a build uo that led to her having sex with him.
> 
> How long before she had sex with him did she know she was going to have sex with him?
> 
> Did she primp and preen for him? Did she buy new lingirie for the event?
> 
> Did she wax or shave ahead of time?
> 
> When and where did they do the deed?
> 
> Did he wear a condom?
> 
> Did either of them take pics or vids of their encounter?
> 
> If they only had sex that one day (and I highly doubt it was only one time), how many times did they make out and grope each other leading up to it?
> 
> She was so distraught she had to go to counseling but she was NOT distraught enough to get away from him and no longer work with him and see him and talk to him at work after this all these years.
> 
> She was just fine seeing and working with him with both of them knowing what they had done.
> 
> She was good with you intetacting with him after the fact even though both he and she knew what they had done.
> 
> The amount of disrespect she showed you by allowing that to happen all those times is stunning.
> 
> What has your counselor said to you about any and all of this?


Yes to all of this. I highly doubt a therapist would explicitly recommend hiding an affair. And the fact you worked with this guy for years after the ONS is so galling, I'm not sure how you're dealing with that. Your wife was utterly disrespecting you and covertly rubbing your nose in it FOR YEARS.


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## sokillme

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


It's foolish to believe it's a one time event just because she told you. 

What you are saying is she has been around her affair partner for 12 years and didn't tell you but continued to see the guy every day? 

She told you she feels guilty and it stopped and was a one time event.

Again it's foolish to just believe that. This is a person who lied to your face for over a decade.

Something is wrong that you say you don't have trust issues, YOU SHOULD NOT TRUST HER or her little red ridinghood act. Women like your wife depend on it.


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## sokillme

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


Your wife didn't own anything she got outed, she told her girlfriend though, I wonder what she said. 

She is depending on you believing that though. It's not about hating her it about reality dude. Did you work with this guy too? If so the level of disrespect to you is really profound. Why don't you care about that?

Here is a universal truth, passive people particularly men get cheated on. It's like cloudy sky bring rain. Serial cheating heterosexual women pick men who have exactly the same kind of attitude as you do. How they are tricked into affairs, and feel OH SO guilty once they are caught. 

It's a symbiotic relationship, they are just looking for guys who will fall for their lines and see them as little lost does who were taken by the big bad wolf but only once. Then they learned their lesson but not enough to be honest, nope instead they continued to abuse their husband by stealing his agency and not allowing him to make informed choices. Poor things. 

Passive not confrontational men are the best choice because they know they are quick to forgive and are more affaid of the truth then the reality they wish for. These guys won't push it. They are usually great providers too because this also makes them good workers too. What could be better if you wanted to have a lifetime of affairs. It's a perfect set up.

Cheaters lie and they are well practiced and good at it. Ignore that at your own peril.


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## Sfort

Just ride it out. You don't have many options because of the financial implications. If you're happy with her answers, that's all that matters.


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## TAMAT

Samsonite,

What is very common is that cheaters will only admit to what you know or prove.

It's also common for cheaters to minimize and "only once" is the most common minimization.

Have her write out a timeline for the affair with all the details, then take her for a polygraph, if she is telling the truth then she will be too happy to comply.

DNA the kids seriously, have your WW go for STD testing.

Even if it was a ONS, it likely had a long EA, emotional affair, before the physical affair happened.

If the OM is married or has a GF I would expose the affair to them.

There has to be a cost to OM. I don't know if you can get him fired or if you know any dirt on him. 

Perhaps if you know of other women he cheated with you can spill the beans to their BHs and they can put the squeeze on OM.


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## 86857

MrSamsonite said:


> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. *It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.*


I'm going to assume that BS has come clean and will address what I bolded above.
(Sounds like a ONS because she immediately went to a therapist, which you remember her doing)
I understand your feelings. I'd wanna punch 'notch in the belt' guy LOL.
But you know what? It doesn't matter a damn what he thinks.
If he thinks he got one over on you? Can you name any other person who would?. . . apart from one. . . which is you!
So, you can take him along with you in your head, as you and your W continue to do R.
Or leave the scumbag behind.
The last thing I would do is say anything to him/text him etc and give him any attention. His 'type' actually like attention.


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## Divinely Favored

MrSamsonite said:


> Thank you. I could easily do that myself. To be honest, making her do it is kind of my **** way of forcing her to carry some of the pain that I feel. I totally understand the skepticism. I've felt it too. The way the story came to me was as a single event. She saw a therapist who advised her that since it was a one time thing and over that there was no reason to risk her marriage by telling me. (That is her story....IDK...I do know she saw a therapist around that time for unknown reasons). We have been as honest as I feel we could be since the reveal. I understand "cheaters, cheat" mantra. I really don't think that's the case here. Anyway, I have pressed. She swears on a river of tears that this is everything. There is nothing else for me to do. I can't think of a single one of our friends that don't look at us and wish they had our marriage. I'm not going to give that up because of one mistake so long ago and the opinion (but I do not mind hearing them) that she cheated a lot more often on my by people that have never met us.


Polygraph and verify. She tells him you know and he will think you are a wuss because you know and are still to big of a ***** to do anything about it....See how that works. Is he married or seeing someone that was with him back then.


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## Divinely Favored

She could have moved to opposite shift from him. Did that happen. I bet there were many many many flirty convos since and him gloating. It may have only been once because he got what he wanted and dumped her...probably why she was in therapy..guy she wanted..hit it and quit it. His badge of honor telling her he can have her over you. 

Same way my whorish sister had an affair and when she would not leave her hubby, guy dropped her and she OD'ed. I used to look up to her but now I loath her presence.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

sideways said:


> So she's worked with this guy for the past twelve years and you're convinced that there was only this ONS?? And she never came Clean on her own volition and you had to find out from someone else.
> 
> You are in denial.


Oh me...way beyond denial.


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## jsmart

Divinely Favored said:


> She could have moved to opposite shift from him. Did that happen. I bet there were many many many flirty convos since and him gloating. It may have only been once because *he got what he wanted and dumped her...probably why she was in therapy..guy she wanted..hit it and quit it.* His badge of honor telling her he can have her over you.
> 
> Same way my whorish sister had an affair and when she would not leave her hubby, guy dropped her and she OD'ed. I used to look up to her but now I loath her presence.


you bring up a real possible reason for her to feel the need for therapy, that she was torn up for being an easy piece of @ss . There had to be a run up to the ONS. Flirting, leading kissing, to groping, to him finally getting in her pants. Then for them to continue to work closely for 12 years and never have another hookup? 

I truly want this to be a real ONS for the OP but in this type of scenario, it is hard to believe. If this was a drunken ONS at bar or club, that more believable but with a guy that she works closely with? I just know how us men think. Once we’ve had a taste of a girl, we want another. With them working so closely, he had plenty of time to try to snooze her back into his bed. Or was it OP’s bed?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Yeah...I don't believe it was just once either.


----------



## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> That said, I’m not a man, and I know men feel differently about these things.


It´s good that you are aware of that valid difference


----------



## ABHale

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


Your wife didn’t make a MISTAKE.

She made a choice to **** a guy you both worked with. A guy that went around and told everyone about it afterwards. She turned you into the laughing stock for everyone that worked there. You were the butt of all the jokes.

Like quite a few here, your anger is geared towards the wrong person. The only one it should be for is your cheating wife.

Your are acting the fool if you believe your wife is telling you everything.


----------



## Diana7

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


People who are cheated on will almost always feel more angry with the AP than their spouse. I say again, she was the married one who cheated on you not him. Yet you have let it go with your wife and despite her years long deception and lies you feel you can trust her. Whether she tells him you know really makes no difference now.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Diana7 said:


> People who are cheated on will almost always feel more angry with the AP than their spouse. I say again, she was the married one who cheated on you not him. Yet you have let it go with your wife and despite her years long deception and lies you feel you can trust her. Whether she tells him you know really makes no difference now.


But he's known and worked with this guy for years. I agree he should be more angry at his wife, but I totally understand how he also wants this guy to know he's no longer in the dark.


----------



## Diana7

loblawbobblog said:


> But he's known and worked with this guy for years. I agree he should be more angry at his wife, but I totally understand how he also wants this guy to know he's no longer in the dark.


After 12 years does it really matter if indeed it hasn't happened since?


----------



## TexasMom1216

ElOtro said:


> It´s good that you are aware of that valid difference


What was this about? Another for the ignore list.🙄


----------



## Rooster Cogburn

Samsonite,

You're in a tough spot my man. Your lady is soon to be retired... she works in a highly trained and specialized field that is just not everywhere... and her infidelity was quite a while ago.

Sucks in one way because you didn't see the signs 'then.' Good in another because ignorance is bliss. But as you say- 'here you are.'

I have to agree with many others stating that 12 years is a long, long, long time to go with no other incidences when they work beside each other.

I wouldn't have the faintest idea on how to confirm positive/ negative of more instances. I mean... you could do the usual (check phone bills/ social media/ aps installed on her phone with her consent.. and she should consent) but only for the past few years realistically. Polygraph at this point? Possibly but that's another decision for you to make.

Looks like it's a gut check moment and you play your hand as best you see fit and live with whatever direction you choose.

I did pick up on the- 'She can't quit/ transfer as it would be financially ruinous'... I am not going to pry here... but if this IS the case... I would start exchanging some debits for some credits on the old ledger here... you never know what happens or comes up down the road... as you know now.

Best of luck sir.


----------



## Donald1959

*I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.*

A mistake is buying white bread instead of brown, scope instead of Listerine, what your WW did was make a calculated decision to let another man have sex with her so please stop calling it a mistake as it lessens her culpability in what was her decision and like you said you would have probably walked 12 years ago even though it was still a mistake then. I also do not believe this was a one off. But ultimately its your decision to stay or go & most definitely inform the POSOM's spouse of her husbands activities. And get yourself tested their are some STD's that remain dormant for years and with this guys penchant for belt notching his conquests he could be a variable walking petri dish of STDs.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

MrSamsonite said:


> I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


I suppose there are many different people in this world. 12 years of lies, them being in each other's company every day, the physical act of sex shared between them and the memory of their intimacy they share each time they look at each other. Just NO! I would not stand for such disrespect that lasted 12 years. 

I would have divorced her for any element of this on it's own. 
The ONS merits a divorce. 
The continued lies and making a fool out of me merits a divorce. 
The shared time at work merits a divorce. 
Their shared intimacy bubble merits a divorce. 
The fact that she defiled herself with another man merits a divorce.
The fact that she did this with a known player and disrespected me for some strange merits a divorce.
The fact that others definitely knew and made a fool of me with the help of her lies merits a divorce.

That's my take on it.

Was the other man married at the time (even-though he's a know player)? If so and still married, his SO deserves to know.

This other man never swore to be true to you. He is a POS and if laws were still just and honorable, it would have been pistols at dawn because of the disrespect he has shown you and continued to show you, but with laws as they are, he's not worth your time.

Your wife on the other hand is the real POS. She stabbed you in the back, betrayed you and lied to you EVERY DAY for 12 YEARS. I cannot even fathom touching someone like that again. You said yourself that you would have left her on the spot had you known. Her lies took that choice and your agency from you. I would be disgusted, not only with the betrayal, but that I was forced to waste 12 years of my life devoid of agency and all built on lies.

I guess I'm just a hard man, but my history speaks for me. I do not waste my time on adulterers. I have carved them out of my life because to me they have died.

I guess it takes the whole spectrum to make the world turn.


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## SnowToArmPits

Hi OP. You're retired, no career to worry about. Go punch that fu*cker in the nose.



MrSamsonite said:


> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy.


With a busted nose he'll remember that notch all right.


----------



## Casual Observer

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


I think you're eventually going to discover that your anger towards the other man is misdirected; that your issue really is with your wife, but you have a need to take it out on someone, and you love your wife very much and have her on a bit of a pedestal and would much rather villainize the OM. 

There are so many times the betraying spouse doesn't come forward until someone else has spilled the beans, and it's really tough to not see that as a desire to control and essentially deny their spouse agency. You talk about her job being something she couldn't transfer away from, but that's not really how the world works. People move to other locations. I doubt that even air traffic controllers all live and die together in one location as a group. She could have found a way to get away from OM. That she shared a secret with the guy for these past 12 years, something each of them likely gave thought to on a regular basis (whether disgust or fondness doesn't really matter), is, I think, the reason you're angry with OM. OM is a low life deserving no sympathy, for sure. But OM didn't force your wife to have sex with him. Unless your wife easily loses control, that one night stand was the result of a whole lot of opportunities along the way to shut it down.

Again, for emphasis, you have to explore the possibility that your anger towards OM is a self-deception on your part to let your wife off the hook, and this could come back at you later when your wife thinks everything is going along fine but maybe you've gotten past the fog you're presently in and recognized her responsibility to go 100% no-contact with this guy. If she'd disclosed way back when, maybe you could have come to terms with a different arrangement. But it was a secret shared with people other than you.

Proceed as if you have been traumatized. Because you have been, and you're living with a daily reminder of that trauma. Things can work out for you and your wife! Don't get me wrong. Just don't think the path you're on will get you there.


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## TriX

Is it 'normal' for your wife to play hula hoops (without the hoops) with a guy by impulse? 

If it is not a common occurrence, then something would have been going on between the two of them before she slipped and fell on his weiner.... _I swear it was just once, your Honor_


----------



## Diana7

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi OP. You're retired, no career to worry about. Go punch that fu*cker in the nose.
> 
> 
> 
> With a busted nose he'll remember that notch all right.


So he should risk being charged with assault and put in jail? Should he punch his wife as well being that she was the one who choose to betray him?


----------



## Beach123

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


Instead of contacting him - do counseling for yourself.

your anger is misplaced. Your wife took those vows - not the OM.
It wasn’t a mistake for her…it was a calculated decision - one that took many choices that SHE made - to betray you.

do the counseling. The fact that she has been a good wife since? Well, because she did you wrong and she knows it. Also because she knew she pulled a fast one on you. She wasn’t honest… your wife wasn’t honest WITH YOU! That’s not a good wife.

you want to stay because she will retire in 3 years. That you can do - but your still married to a gal who cheated and lied to you for a full twelve years. That’s not a good marriage - it’s a good cover up.


----------



## Beach123

MrSamsonite said:


> I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


you may not be in denial - but it looks like you are removed from believing you deserve a wife who doesn’t betray you then lie about it for twelve full years.

you can’t really know it was one time. You also can’t believe it never happened again - even with someone else.

She didn’t respect nor honor you. Yet you wish to believe your marriage is something it never was. That looks more like delusional than denial. Think about that.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

As with all these stories, we all know that OP has only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of truth. She hid the cheating for 12 YEARS. 12 Years of lying by omission. There is no way in hell that she has told him close to the full truth now. OP is being trickle-truthed. I too have to call this a Cover-Up instead of a marriage.


----------



## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> What was this about? Another for the ignore list.🙄


It intented to be a sincere compliment.
Your privilege of course to ignore me.


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## D0nnivain

Do not punch the guy or demand that your wife take a polygraph. If you are in such disbelief that you have lost all trust, get a divorce. The minute you demand something like a polygraph it's over anyway. 

I know it's a fresh hurt to you because you just found out, but it's ancient history. Unless she has been carrying on with this guy for the entire time, if you want your marriage to continue you have to find a way to work though this. A polygraph is not the answer.


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## Rus47

@MrSamsonite. If you and OM traded places would you have been one and done with the woman? Most men would keep running the same play as often as it put points on the board.

What you already know which in your gut you know is the just tip of the iceberg, is enough to really mess with your head. There are lot of men who tolerate a cheating wife for financial reasons, so you will just be one of many.


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## SnowToArmPits

Diana7 said:


> So he should risk being charged with assault and put in jail? Should he punch his wife as well being that she was the one who choose to betray him?


It's a quick and direct way for retribution on the OM who he's angry has gotten away with it. 
Punch the wife? Thought he was trying to reconcile with her.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

MrSamsonite said:


> There is nothing I can do about them working together. It is a unique job. You cannot transfer. You work here, or you quit. Quitting is not an option. It is very difficult to not be in the area at the same time as another person. It has been done on rare occasion. When it happens, it always causes a lot of discussion amongst the others as to why. I know this "thing" is long passed and over. I can discuss this with my wife. I will think about it.


Bear in mind that the opinions you're getting here, that you know only the bare minimum, tip of the iceberg etc from W, are coming from folks with experience and those in the know on this topic.

This situation is far, far from being unique to your relationship. It's happened millions of times.


----------



## Butforthegrace

These found out years later situations are a special kind of Hell. It's like the big reveal at the end of "Y Tu Mama Tambien", forcing you to go back and re-watch the entire film, re-interpreting the plot. 12 or so years of your life, and your WW has been harboring this secret. Essentially, she lied to you every day for 12 years.

I reckon that she is telling you the truth when she says her therapist encouraged her to keep it a secret. Most therapists are quacks when it comes to infidelity. Their default is to recommend dishonesty if it seems expedient.

My observation from these found out years later scenarios is that the quality of the marriage in the intervening years is a significant factor. If the marriage has been "meh", with little effort by the cheater, then the BS is rightfully very angry and bitter after Dday. If the marriage has been good -- and especially if the WW has thrown herself into being a model wife as a way of atoning for her secret transgression -- then I can completely understand that it's not necessarily the right decision to jump into a divorce. You say the marriage has been good. Has it been good in the sense of a wife who feels guilty for cheating so has thrown herself into being a Stepford wife good? Because frankly that's my hunch. Just throwing that out there for some perspective. Has her "good wife" behavior been ersatz or from the heart?

A few things about the A itself. It's not that common for coworkers who have worked in close proximity for a while, like your WW and the AP, to engage in a "surprise" ONS. 

I think the term "one night stand" for most people means a sequence of events that plays out in its totality literally over one night. She goes to a bachelorette party, has a few too many, there is a stripper who is a smoking hot hunk, others are diddling with his junk, and she finds herself getting caught up in the moment. Or a wedding reception, where she finds herself in a back room drunken tryst with an old flame from high school.

My observation of infidelity forum threads is that it's not typical for a middle aged woman to have a single ONS type of affair. Middle aged married women who engage in ONS style sex usually do it more than once. If they cheat with just one man, more commonly, mid-life crisis affairs involve an EA/PA that is ongoing for some period of time. It's usually a (highly dysfunctional) response to the existential issues that middle aged people grapple with. Gently, it seems like there is likely more to this than "oops, I accidentally fell on my colleague's d#ck while you were out of town." You describe the AP as a "notch on the belt" type. What I'm hearing is that he flirted with her and she responded. She allowed herself to desire him, and engaged in a build up of desire that led to her planning and executing the sexual consummation of her desire while you were away. As an aside, did they do it in your home? In your bed? Do you still have the bed? Getting rid of horcruxes of the A is a step toward healing.

As I discuss below, has your WW been honest with you, or with herself, about this? R only works in an environment of naked, blunt honesty by the WW. I say it this way because millions of married people navigate middle age existential angst without cheating on their spouse. People who cheat have a character flaw.

One element of infidelity recovery, no matter when discovered, is the WW writing out a detailed, graphic timeline of all of the events around the infidelity and then reading it aloud to the BH. She wove a cocoon of intimacy with this man, much of it likely being done on the sly in your presence. This is an intimacy hole in the fabric of the marriage. When she married you, she promised to share her intimacy only with you. As painful as it is to hear the details, this sort of "fly on the wall" disclosure is possibly the first intimate thing she will do with you concerning the time period of the A. Most BH's feel that the salutary benefit of restoring the intimacy outweighs the pain of hearing the details.

Further, in circumstances like this, it's natural for the BH to wonder if, during the intervening 12 years, he has been the brunt of a private joke between his WW and the AP, especially at times when all three were working together. After all, as I discuss above, this almost certainly was driven by her desire for sex with this man. That sort of thing doesn't just go away. Did your WW and the AP share knowing smirks behind your back? Are they doing it today, at the workplace? Thoughts like that would torment me personally. We call infidelity a sh!t sandwich. I fully understand the unique nature of your WW's career, and the value of her retirement benefit. In infidelity recovery, details matter. Each cheating story has its own unique flavor of sh!t sandwich. Yours involves this reality that your WW and the AP will necessarily continue to interact in close proximity for years. It's highly likely that every day when she goes to work, that will be front of your mind, and it will remain so until she returns home. I hope she at the very least realizes the torment she forces you to endure as a result of her decisions.

Speaking of decisions, why did she decide to have an affair with a coworker? What was her rationale at the time? I'm curious. I reckon it was the happenstance of proximity and opportunity, which is the case with a lot of infidelity. However, most cultures have some version of "don't sh!it where you eat". Even unmarried people generally eschew sexual encounters with colleagues. It's a dumb thing to do even if no infidelity is involved. It goes to the point about a character flaw that I mention above. If bosses had known, both would probably have been fired. Your WW put a lot at risk by making the choices she made. By the way, never let her get away with calling this a "mistake". A "mistake" is forgetting your car keys, or using baking soda instead of baking powder. This affair was a series of conscious choices that your wife made to betray your wedding vows because she desired sex with this specific man more than she desired being a faithful wife to you. It's personal.

As to retirement and age, ATC's may retire at 50, and must retire by 56. If your WW is three years from retiring, she is between 47 and 53. The A occurred 12 years ago, when she was between 35 and 41. Middle age. Your post doesn't mention if you have kids. As I said above, typically, mid-life crisis affairs involve an EA/PA that is ongoing for some period of time, a (highly dysfunctional) response to the existential issues that middle aged people grapple with. R works if the WW figures out what her character flaw was -- why did she decide that she had the right to arrogate a secret, one-sided open marriage in that circumstance -- and fix it. Make herself into a better person. Has she done this?

Also as to retirement, I'm guessing that puts you between 52 and 58. That's plenty young to start over. You and your WW will have roughly the same financial resources, so there's not likely going to be any spousal support if you divorce. A friend of mine, age 60, recently divorced. He's been hitting the on line dating scene. For a man of this age, if Sir Topham Hat still functions normally and you are financially solvent, it's a buyer's market out there for men, times a million. He's getting crazy busy. Just saying.

As to the AP, definitely tell his BOW if he has one (is he married?).

As to punching the AP in the face, something like that might be gratifying, but it's quite possible you'd end up in jail, and the AP might sue you and win a substantial judgement depending on the extent of his injuries. I'd suggest not doing it. Now, him going to his car in the parking lot and finding a four tires coincidentally flat, or finding that he has a subscription to NAMBLA using his workplace email, or something like that. Just kidding about the flat tires, by the way. There are almost certainly a ton of security cameras in the vicinity of any place an ATC would park. No way could a person get to his car tires at work without being recorded from several angels.

I would suggest, even with the passage of time, that you and your WW get tested for STD's. Some can be latent and symptom-free for a long time. Even if you choose to remain married, some can ping-pong back and forth between the two of you. Some can result in life-threatening, or life-altering symptoms in later years.


----------



## SunCMars

The thing is.....

We all wait for that Karma to properly play out.
To pay out the debt incurred.

Rarely, does it happen this way.

Getting '_even'_ is a very complicated endeavor.

This man has managed to secretly hurt you for over a decade.
Fate seems to act in his favor.
He has an obvious edge, that you do not.

Put, in a different light, um, something in your fate allows you to be hurt from secret enemies.
And, to be deceived by your spouse.

These injuries are on the same axis, astrologically, the 12th to the 7th.
Without going into detail, or opening myself to incredulous scoffing.
(And that scuffing of my pride), I will leave the workings lightly explained.

The important thing to take away, is that your particular secret enemie(s) vantage point(s), can yet hurt you.
This is YOUR fate in play.

The 12th house also has rule over prisons.
This is a real risk.
Hurting him back may put you in there.

The 7th house rules spouses, partners and open legal issues and problems.
You are at risk of being further burned, legally.

There may have been other instances of others hurting you or bringing you to court.

We are not free beings.

Yes, I will say some get away with murder, crimes and mayhem.
Lucky them, unlucky their victims.



_King Brian-_


----------



## Annonymous Joe

loblawbobblog said:


> I recently found out about a string of one night stands that my wife had 22 years ago, so I totally understand your position. It's great you confronted her and are in both IC and MC. I totally relate to your feeling that you'd have left her back then had you known but feel differently now.
> 
> As for telling the AP, I'd get his phone number and leave a calm, measured text telling him you know about the ONS and leave it at that. No threats. If I knew the person my wife cheated on me with, I'd want to do the same thing for closure.
> 
> I'd be a little skeptical that it happened only once, though. They've worked closely together for the past 12 years. I'd press her on that if you haven't already.


Why press? She lied for 12 years. She will keep up the lie and convince herself to stick to this one time thing, if there were more than 1 occasions, but here's the thing, she was not even the one to tell him, it was the best friend's soon to be ex-husband. This guy should be grateful he told him, because this could have gone on longer. At this point this guy and his wife need to figure out what they want, but he needs to be reminded that her guilt and remorse was "so intense" that she only told her best friend and a therapist, not her husband. So for 12 years, she looked him in the eye every day and said "i love you" and had intimacy with him, knowing she was lying. Sorry, a poly won't do anything anyway, they are just baseline things that don't even stand in court. If she was able to keep the lie this long, I imagine that she can lie through anything else. Who knows what else she has lied about over the years. Guilty people confess to their partners, not their friends.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Annonymous Joe said:


> So for 12 years, she looked him in the eye every day and said "i love you" and had intimacy with him, knowing she was lying.


I will never consent to sleep with an adulteress who betrayed me. I'd be that guy who would make a criminal case for 12 years worth of rape, it may very likely go nowhere, but I'd do it just to make a point.

I'll let her do the polygraph were I inclined to "save" the nuked marriage, but since I'm not that guy, the point would be mute to me.


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## jsmart

Your wife stole the ability for you to confront when it mattered. Confronting now will cause friction for your wife. Especially since their affair is probably long since over. (I hope). They would have to openly revisit what happened in their past and it will be awkward for your wife. It can be painful for you if OM desires to be a douche and spill more details than your wife has given you.

Like everyone else, I don’t buy that this was a ONS. Coworkers don’t have ONS, they have affairs. Unless your wife is some complete who.., there was most likely some romancing that took place to get her into her pants. This would have escalated in steps. From flirting, first kiss, first groping, to eventually first sex. That’s right “first” sex. One and done? With a woman that you spend so much time with? You really believed that?

No, this was very likely an affair that lasted at least a couple of weeks, but most likely months. I would think the counseling she went through was to help her deal with the break up and the disconnect she felt with you. Over and over we see that a WW usually falls out of love with her husband. They struggle with being able to have intimacy with their husband again because they’re still emotionally connected to their OM. With her having to see the guy at work all the time, it must have been very hard for her.

Can you remember how your sex life was back then? Did you go through a sexual dry spell that she said was “stress” related? Some WWs try to compensate by being Ms perfect wife with everything except sex. Cooking good meals, keeping the house spotless, etc, to try to assuage their guilt.

Instead of wanting to confront the guy who only took what your wife chose to give, you should want to make sure you have the complete story of what you’re forgiving. Insisting on a written timeline that I think you would have her take a poly to prove. I’m not saying you have to divorce if you find that it was indeed a full fledge affair but you should want to know what you’re forgiving.


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## Diana7

SnowToArmPits said:


> It's a quick and direct way for retribution on the OM who he's angry has gotten away with it.
> Punch the wife? Thought he was trying to reconcile with her.


She was the one who betrayed him so why punch him and not her?
Plus I doubt he wants to end up being arrested.


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## Annonymous Joe

Dictum Veritas said:


> I will never consent to sleep with an adulteress who betrayed me. I'd be that guy who would make a criminal case for 12 years worth of rape, it may very likely go nowhere, but I'd do it just to make a point.
> 
> I'll let her do the polygraph were I inclined to "save" the nuked marriage, but since I'm not that guy, the point would be mute to me.


Ha. No need for revenge tactics. Simply divorcing her and letting anyone who asks why is good enough for me. No need to tie up the courts on it. She probably doesn't even feel all that bad about it if it was that long ago and only her "Friend" knew. What gets me here is the friend's husband. Did all 4 of them hang out together? 12 years is a long time. That guy had to hold in that secret that long, kind of breaks guy code but I get it, wanted to keep HIS wife happy. I don't like how this poster called the friend's husband a douche; I can't stress enough how grateful he should be that he said something. Sucks it took their divorce for him to come clean, but hey, truth hurts.


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## She'sStillGotIt

MrSamsonite said:


> _*My wife is extremely remorseful .....*_


No, she's NOT "remorseful."

She may be REGRETFUL, but she's *not* remorseful.

A truly remorseful person doesn't LIE to your face every single day for 12 years.

That's *4,380 straight DAYS *of lying to your face. And she was planning on taking it to the grave with her. She wouldn't know what remorse IS if you slapped her in the face with it.

She more than likely went to 'therapy' 12 years ago to figure out whether telling you would benefit HER or not - and she decided that no, it would not benefit HER to tell you.

That's a real prize you've got there.

And Miss Remorseful is STILL working with the guy she had an affair with. *THAT'S* how _"remorseful" _this woman is - she's *still* working with the guy 12 years later - ****ting all over you even *after* she was forced to tell you the partial truth (there's more to her story, make no mistake). Yeah, she's worth keeping. Good lord.

I'm also willing to bet my right arm this was NOT a one-time thing. She's such a freakin' liar that you can't believe a word out of her mouth.

Look OP, anyone willing to LIE to your face to save her own ass for 12 years running is NOT a prize and is a sneaky, unremorseful, deceitful, opportunistic LIAR. Taking your anger out on her skeevy co-worker - who she apparently thought was well worth the risk of losing you - is silly and childish. This isn't the playground! You're making excuses for her INEXCUSABLE behavior while trying to take your anger out on some schmuck she CHOSE to play with on the side.

You're directing your anger at the *wrong* person. Direct it at the 12-year liar who couldn't respect you enough to be loyal to you 12 years ago, but then chose to lie to your FACE until she was exposed 12 years later and had to cop to "one time." If you believe THAT story then I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I'd like to sell you.


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## Annonymous Joe

She'sStillGotIt said:


> No, she's NOT "remorseful."
> 
> She may be REGRETFUL, but she's *not* remorseful.
> 
> A truly remorseful person doesn't LIE to your face every single day for 12 years.
> 
> That's *4,380 straight DAYS *of lying to your face. And she was planning on taking it to the grave with her. She wouldn't know what remorse IS if you slapped her in the face with it.
> 
> She more than likely went to 'therapy' 12 years ago to figure out whether telling you would benefit HER or not - and she decided that no, it would not benefit HER to tell you.
> 
> That's a real prize you've got there.
> 
> And Miss Remorseful is STILL working with the guy she had an affair with. Yeah, that's "remorse" alright. Unreal.
> 
> I'm also willing to bet this was an affair and NOT a one-time thing, too.
> 
> Look OP, anyone willing to LIE to your face to save her own ass for 12 years running is NOT a prize and is a sneaky, unremorseful, deceitful, opportunistic LIAR. Taking your anger out on her skeevy co-worker - who she apparently thought was well worth the risk of losing you - is silly and childish. This isn't the playground! You're making excuses for her INEXCUSABLE behavior while trying to take your anger out on some schmuck she CHOSE to play with on the side.
> 
> You're directing your anger at the *wrong* person. Direct it at the 12-year liar who couldn't respect you enough to be HONEST with you 12 years ago!


I like that you did the math on the days. Kudos to you.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Annonymous Joe said:


> _*I like that you did the math on the days. Kudos to you.*_



It had to be done.


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## bygone

You should take your wife to a polygraph

You're with a woman who lied to you for 12 years.

Even if you don't want a divorce, you should know what you forgive.

If your wife goes through a polygraph, you'll think of om.


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## jsmart

Annonymous Joe said:


> Ha. No need for revenge tactics. Simply divorcing her and letting anyone who asks why is good enough for me. No need to tie up the courts on it. She probably doesn't even feel all that bad about it if it was that long ago and only her "Friend" knew. What gets me here is the friend's husband. Did all 4 of them hang out together? 12 years is a long time. That guy had to hold in that secret that long, kind of breaks guy code but I get it, wanted to keep HIS wife happy. I don't like how this poster called the friend's husband a douche; I can't stress enough how grateful he should be that he said something. Sucks it took their divorce for him to come clean, but hey, truth hurts.


Wow, did they double date? That would be truly F’d up, though I doubt that happened. Most likely the friend’s stbx knew because his wife told her husband but with such a long potential timeline, double dating couldn’t be out of the realms of a possibility.

But OP should not be thinking of the friend’s stbx as a bad guy. He was the one that opened his eyes to the fact that his wife had him living a lie for 12 years. Can you imagine how many times the OM shared knowing glances with his WW behind OPs back? Even if she was long over him, she enabled the OM to dig daggers into her husband’s back for years.


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## Annonymous Joe

jsmart said:


> Wow, did they double date? That would be truly F’d up, though I doubt that happened. Most likely the friend’s stbx knew because his wife told her husband but with such a long potential timeline, double dating couldn’t be out of the realms of a possibility.
> 
> But OP should not be thinking of the friend’s stbx as a bad guy. He was the one that opened his eyes to the fact that his wife had him living a lie for 12 years. Can you imagine how many times the OM shared knowing glances with his WW behind OPs back? Even if she was long over him, she enabled the OM to dig daggers into her husband’s back for years.


oh I don't know if they did double date, I'm just saying 12 years is a long time so I would have hoped at some point they all interacted.


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## Dictum Veritas

jsmart said:


> But OP should not be thinking of the friend’s stbx as a bad guy.


He held onto the secret for 12 years himself. He's definitely not the good guy, but telling the truth eventually is a little redemptive, even if he did do it for selfish reasons.


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> Wow, did they double date? That would be truly F’d up, though I doubt that happened. Most likely the friend’s stbx knew because his wife told her husband but with such a long potential timeline, double dating couldn’t be out of the realms of a possibility.
> 
> But OP should not be thinking of the friend’s stbx as a bad guy. He was the one that opened his eyes to the fact that his wife had him living a lie for 12 years. Can you imagine how many times the OM shared knowing glances with his WW behind OPs back? Even if she was long over him, she enabled the OM to dig daggers into her husband’s back for years.


Didnt OP, AP, WW all work air traffic control? For 12 years. Wouldnt the entire workforce know the story? For 12 years? Laughing at OP behind his back? And now since he retired telling story openly over lunch.

AP n WW could have been diddling one another until now in the coat closet or parking lot or … including while OP was still working. That would have been high for both of them, getting it on right under his nose. With knowledge of coworkers.


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## jsmart

Her friend most likely shared the gossip with her husband expecting that it would be held in confidence. I know it’s messed up to hide that type of info but if he would have exposed her affair, he would have been in hot water with his wife. We all know he spilled the beans to hurt his stbx not because he was being altruistic but his douche act was actually a blessing that opened OPs eyes, so to me, he’s not a complete bad guy. Unless there was double dating then, you’re right he was a bad guy. 

It’s obvious that his “remorseful “ wife would have let her husband continue to stay in the dark. If it really, truly was a 1 time hookup and she truly regretted it like OP believes, then maybe staying in the dark would have been best but every TAMer knows that the odds of her story being true are very low, so he should have wanted to know.


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## blackclover3

@MrSamsonite 

are you for real forgiven her already and you still not full aware the extent of the ONS?

1- she didn't only cheat but also robbed you for 12 years from making a decision 
2- they both (your wife and BF) stepped all over you for 12 years and laughed. how? she slept with him, and continued working with him, and I'm 100% certain it was not ONS - dude, I worked in hospitals and similar federal job. every affair I've seen continued for a long long time. 
3- if she felt remorseful she could've left 12 years ago or transferred 
4- and yes, the other man was laughing his way to your wife's pants. in fact, it might be a turn on for him every time he sees you and hear your name. 
5- No she is not a remorseful - the guy slept with her and wanted to keep it casual - and when your wife thought she doesn't have a chance to leave you for him that's when she felt remorseful
6- your problem is not with him - he scored - your problem is with your wife, her friend, and the counselor 
7- your wife Knew you would forgive and move on, that's what she cheated in first place - she wanted to have an Alpha male - and many husbands who forgive and move on are your typical Beta and zeta males

search every story here is this site - a true remorse from spouses are the ones who didn't wait and came up front and confessed - some of them who didnt confess left their job immediately because of guilt, shame, and the least respect for their betrayed spouses. 

I'm truly sorry for the harsh words -


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## colingrant

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


I've been reading these forums for 5 years. The commonalities with each follow a strict pattern that are unbelievably similar. A few thoughts.

You would be very, very naiive to assume with confidence no less that it just happened once. Once is always confessed because it's a confession the wayward knows the betrayed will buy, as it's a confession, but not the same as if it occurred multiple times. Nearly 100% of betrayed men buy into this for two reasons.

One, they are highly uncomfortable and want to disbelieve there wives are capable of performing such egregiousness, because it defies nearly everything they thought there wives were over the course of there marriage. This is an extremely upsetting line of thinking that they do not even want to seriously consider.

Second. They are deathly fearful of realizing the truth simply because they don't want to think of it and the pain is too great to bear. So they move forward thinking it was either an emotional affair or a 1 or 2 time incident. 

Let's say it was a one night stand. One night stands and one night incidents are two different things. A stand is viewed as not having a build up to the sex. A one time incident can be preceded by a months long emotional affair with sexting and emotional connectivity. This makes the affair months long.

Additionally, many infidelity novices do not even consider emotional connectivity, kissing, fingering, and sometimes oral sex as a full blown affair. Remember, the wayward spouse seeks to preserve there reputations and marriages at all costs, hence, will understate and limit all things that can comprise there reputations or marriage. 

In my experience you can multiply the confessions by anywhere from 3x to 6x or more. So if she said sex was once, it's possible it was 3 to six times and lasted 3-6 weeks or even months.

Personally, I understand the fact that it happened 12 years ago and they've been working that long but I'd be more concerned about what has happened in that period than if they continue to work together. 

To be honest I have an extremely different view than 99% of posters concerning the work situation. My thinking is if my wife can't control herself and have to be separate from another man to stay true to me then she isn't mines to have in the first place.

You will have to go to great lengths to quantify the relationship these past few years and it doing so will be uncomfortable for you and her. It will entail your wife taking a polygraph test and a very, very detailed timeline as well as contacting the other co-workers spouse to see what she has found out. It can also include reviewing email discussions over a decade and other deep diggings.

I'm sure this sounds frightening to you, but we're talking about you achieving a peace of mind and reassurances of truth since reconciliation has to sit firmly atop a foundation of facts. Nothing else will do unless you wish to shortchange yourself. 

Don't fool yourself here or rug-sweep. You're here for a reason. Believe the skeptics. They aren't skeptical for no reason. They are skeptical because they've experienced first hand what you are going through. Same with me, twice by the way.

Just know that wayward spouses will lie about this and NOTHING else in there life. They will look you in the eye and place there hand on the bible to get you to believe them. I'm talking perfect wives who go to church weekly and are perfect moms. THEY WILL STILL LIE AND OBSTRUCT THE TRUTH AT ALL COSTS.

Lastly. The x of your wife's friend deserves respect, not condemnation. He did the right thing.


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## loblawbobblog

It should be noted that your wife is continuing to live a lie every day she doesn't tell the OM that you now know about their affair as she works beside him. She is perpetuating their secret intimacy bubble as if it still exists, and it may very well still exist, it's just no longer secret. And the secrecy is very much a part of that intimacy between them even if they only had sex once (unlikely). So if she has any respect for you at all, she needs to tell the guy. 

And honestly, money isn't everything. I can't believe you can live with the fact that she sees this guy every workday. This whole thing is incredibly sketchy and disrespectful to you in the present, not just 12 years ago.


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## TexasMom1216

ElOtro said:


> It intented to be a sincere compliment.
> Your privilege of course to ignore me.


Sorry for misunderstanding. I was sad, I really like your posts and would be bummed.


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## Rus47

MrSamsonite said:


> n. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.


Ok, putting aside how many/how long/details.

Your question is whether you should threaten the OM. The consensus here is you should NOT. It will not make you feel any better even though you believe it would and could end badly for you. 

Given your insistence that this was a single time more than a decade ago, your best option is to get some counseling to maybe help get this pushed to the back of your head. Inotherwords, what is called here rugsweeping. Though not advised, it is a common strategy of betrayed husbands. The threads like yours are plentiful and pretty much follow the same trajectory. So carry on and pretend your wifes friends xh told you nothing. If other things surface down the road you will just have to deal with the wreckage then.


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## thissucks7788

It's true we are not a trusting bunch here on TAM and with pretty good reason. I think I would arrange for a polygraph just to make sure she is indeed telling the whole truth. If she is and it was a one-night stand (for real, only once, no other shenanigans) then you can decide (which is sounds like you have) if you want to continue with her or not. I would however not make this easy on her and she should have to fight to keep you and the marriage. This is to ensure that she would never pull this crap again. Personally, I would not engage with the OM- your wife is the one that owes you her loyalty however I am not a guy so there may be some guy feelings that I can't relate to. I know this is hard and I wish you all the best.


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## SRCSRC

My suggestions: 1. You and your WW should approach her supervisor and request that her work schedule not overlap with the AP's schedule. Explain the circumstances. If the employer has a no-tolerance policy regarding romantic entanglements among coworkers, that could be a problem. On the other hand, the employer should be compelled to grant your request if only to protect itself from a sexual harassment case. Yes, that is a real possibility if the request is not granted. 2. Your WW must submit to a polygraph exam after she does a detailed written timeline as to her interactions with the AP, including everything that led up to the ONS. Was there an EA going on? The polygraph should investigate if it was only an ONS and whether there have been other men. 3. See a lawyer to determine if there is any legal recourse against the AP such as an alienation of affections lawsuit. Also, a creative lawyer who specializes in such cases might be able to file a sexual harassment case against the AP, but the statute of limitations might be a problem. But if the AP has continued to interact with the WW in an unsolicited flirtatious manner, the statute of limitations might not be a bar. It's not so much winning the case but causing the AP grief that a lawsuit can bring. 4. If the AP is married, tell his wife. Even if he married her subsequent to the ONS, I would tell her about the scum she has for a husband. 5. You mention that the AP will be leaving shortly. Is it possible that your wife takes a leave of absence until he leaves? 

This is not your typical ONS. Your wife continued to work with the AP all these years. You need to investigate what went on subsequent to the ONS. On the other hand, you can rug sweep the entire mess and move on with your lives. If it works for you, who are any of us to say otherwise? Unfortunately, legal revenge against the AP is extremely limited.

Finally, and this will have many come down on me as being blasphemous, explore being given a hall pass by your wife if you so desire.


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## Casual Observer

SRCSRC said:


> My suggestions: 1. You and your WW should approach her supervisor and request that her work schedule not overlap with the AP's schedule. Explain the circumstances. 2. Your WW must submit to a polygraph exam after she does a detailed written timeline as to her interactions with the AP, including everything that led up to the ONS. Was there an EA going on? The polygraph should investigate if it was only an ONS and whether there have been other men. 3. See a lawyer to determine if there is any legal recourse against the AP such as an alien of affections lawsuit. Also, a creative lawyer might be able to file a sexual harassment case against the AP, but the statute of limitations might be a problem. It's not so much winning the case but causing the AP grief that a lawsuit can bring. 4. If the AP is married, tell his wife. Even if he married her subsequent to the ONS, I would tell her about the scum she has for a husband.


The polygraph thing- from what I’ve read on TAM, the key is to focus on a single question, at most two. It’s not a fishing expedition. So you could ask “Did you have sex more than once” but not “when and where did you have sex.”


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## Livvie

D0nnivain said:


> Do not punch the guy or demand that your wife take a polygraph. If you are in such disbelief that you have lost all trust, get a divorce. The minute you demand something like a polygraph it's over anyway.
> 
> I know it's a fresh hurt to you because you just found out, but it's ancient history. Unless she has been carrying on with this guy for the entire time, if you want your marriage to continue you have to find a way to work though this. A polygraph is not the answer.


Disagree. This shows she's a cheater and liar and calls into question her character and morals. I'd want a polygraph to see if this guy was the only one.


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## Dictum Veritas

bygone said:


> Bence kocanın sezgisi yeterli, aynı yerde çalışıyorlar, işyerindeki EA/PA'lar hakkında bilgisi var.


No man's intuition when first faces with the fact that his wife stabbed him in the back is sufficient. The poor man is in the thick of things and can't see the forest for the trees.

Only once he gained altitude and can see things from 50,000 ft AGL can he get the full picture.

Sorry, I disagree with most of this, but I'm not about to pick Turkish apart point by point.

Tensy ons almal in ons eie tale kan pos en die Babelse gemors vir mekaar gaan vertaal. I don't think that's a bright idea.


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## colingrant

I'm for letting the AP know just to make his ass sweat, but spitting vitriol towards him when it's your wife who consented the sex is always a weak move to me. Again though, I don't think I follow the trend here. Nothing happens until the women says in her mind, yes and begins removing clothing and making arrangements.

When my x-fiancé' had an affair I did not want to dignify her AP's existence as a human being because it was my x-fiancé who granted him complete access to her body and mind. Access was not denied. Permission was given. Fact!!

All he had to do is talk, maybe compliment her here and there and make her feel good. Why get upset at him. I'd be upset that my wife was weak and accessible when I thought she was strong and inaccessible. If she were strong and inaccessible you wouldn't even know this guy's name or anything about him because he would've been a nothing.

Simply a group of atoms occupying air space. BUT because she grants such atoms to mingle with hers, he's suddenly meaningful. Who made him that way? The fact is he was nothing special, until SHE made him special. He was and is just another John Doe, who could have been Jeff Doe, Jack Doe or Jess Doe. Wouldn't have mattered, but it just so happened to be John Doe.

To this day, I have no idea who my x-fiancé's affair partner was because I refused to lend a person I don't even know any space in my head or memory. He's undeserving as such. My x granted him space in our engagement, but I closed that door immediately and moved on. In your situation it's different and I understand that.

Moving forward, I'd take on a posture of quiet confidence where YOU set forth the terms on how you will proceed. FEARLESSLY AND BOLDLY. You don't have to announce she has to do this and has to do that. Simply say, here's how we're moving forward and give her your instructions and expectations in order for you to feel comfortable in the marriage with peace.

She's not to tell you what peace looks or feels like. You define this and your instructions are simply to achieve peace in the marriage. THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH FOR HER TO MOVE MOUNTAINS AND MAKE SURE YOU SIT ATOP OF IT. It's commanding without sounding falsely desperate. which many betrayed husbands often sound like when making demands.

Don't be afraid of what's behind a door that's not been opened. Yank that ***** open and greet whatever or whoever is there like you own the place.


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## re16

OP, I know you feel strongly that it was a one time thing. There is a chance you are correct, but the many opinions that are questioning that are from experience seeing this situation over and over...and the statistics say that would be unusual for it only be a ONS with 12 years of working together.

You at least need to make some effort to see if there is more, like tell her she is taking a poly and drive to an office building parking lot, saying the appointment is in one hour (even if there is no appointment at all)... then let her talk.... if you don't get a parking lot confession of more, that would increase confidence that her story is true.

OM's wife needs to be informed if he has one. Your wife's friend's ex did you a big favor, you should be thanking him. Have you talked to your wife's friend privately? If you feeling afraid to take these steps, it might be some sort of internal desire to avoid a potentially worse outcome.

You can't forgive what you don't know, so you have to pursue every avenue to ensure you have the full story.


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## TAMAT

Mr. Samsonite,

Perhaps the most compelling reason to confront the OM is to get his side of the story and validate your WWs story. Even when they lie the truth is often embedded in their choice of words and body language.

If he is a cocky serial cheater OM he may just tell you more than your WW did to rub your nose in it, but that's ok you are looking for facts and the truth, your revenge can happen later.

There is a good possibility that the OM and WW got their stories straight since they work together. But under pressure people often have trouble following a plan or remembering what they agreed on.

You might want to hold it over OMs head by threatening to go to personnel. 

I met with OM1 and I'm glad I did, I didn't have time for the important questions, but it was somehow satisfying hearing OM make excuses for why he had gotten close to my W. He moved far away after that.


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## colingrant

re16 said:


> OP, I know you feel strongly that it was a one time thing. There is a chance you are correct, but the many opinions that are questioning that are from experience seeing this situation over and over...and the statistics say that would be unusual for it only be a ONS with 12 years of working together.
> 
> You at least need to make some effort to see if there is more, like tell her she is taking a poly and drive to an office building parking lot, saying the appointment is in one hour (even if there is no appointment at all)... then let her talk.... if you don't get a parking lot confession of more, that would increase confidence that her story is true.
> 
> OM's wife needs to be informed if he has one. Your wife's friend's ex did you a big favor, you should be thanking him. Have you talked to your wife's friend privately? If you feeling afraid to take these steps, it might be some sort of internal desire to avoid a potentially worse outcome.
> 
> You can't forgive what you don't know, so you have to pursue every avenue to ensure you have the full story.


For the record my x stated it was once. It occurred at his apartment or home in front of the fireplace. ;-) Turns out they were at it like rabbits. My x was raised extremely well with a stable home with two parents. She was in law school and taking the bar exam.

I was told by a friend who I thought doesn't know my fiance the way that I know her. My thinking was probably similar to yours. When I get mad I get quiet. It wasn't until I'd agreed to meeting with her with a stoic, indifferent posture that she decided to put all her cards on the table to save the pending marriage. It was too late, but she didn't know it.

She nervously and tearfully came straight. The sex was multiple times. I already knew it because I know men. In the great majority of instances, men do not place limitations on extra sex with another man's significant other. They will take the sex made available to them until the woman say's enough. Even THEN he will continue until he sees the woman actually means it. It's tough man. You need not make any decisions or act brashly.

Take some time for yourself and think this through rationally, objectively and realistically. Takes tremendous courage to do so.


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## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> It should be noted that your wife is continuing to live a lie every day she doesn't tell the OM that you now know about their affair as she works beside him. She is perpetuating their secret intimacy bubble as if it still exists, and it may very well still exist, it's just no longer secret. And the secrecy is very much a part of that intimacy between them even if they only had sex once (unlikely). So if she has any respect for you at all, she needs to tell the guy.


I would bet my next mortgage payment that she told OM that Her husband knows and that she told OM that her husband was told it was only one time, so they can have their stories synced for the possible confrontation. 

That’s one of the issues with adultery that doesn’t have a d day and the affair partner is still in the picture.; it causes an intimacy bubble with the AP that the betrayed is kept out of. Even if the affair ended long ago, the OM and her share a deep secret that continues a bond between them. Which is why, her continuing to work with the OM and to allow her husband to be around the guy who had her, was so disrespectful and points to it not being a one time hook up.

I would recommend that he read @idkaname thread “Wife had an affair 9 years ago”. He found evidence that forced his wife to admit an affair. The more he dug the uglier it got. she had to admit more with the more he dug thanks to prodding from TAM. Not saying that OP’s situation was as a bad as that thread but it shows how an affair partner usually continues to hit on the woman and that many times the woman submits to his request even after the affair supposedly ended. Which is why we ALWAYS say that affair partners can’t continue to work together.


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## Divinely Favored

Diana7 said:


> She was the one who betrayed him so why punch him and not her?
> Plus I doubt he wants to end up being arrested.


The man knew him and her, knew they were married. This dude transgressed against OP also and owes his pound of flesh and should expect to pay it. It is up to OP if he wanted to enforce payment. 

The guy knew the woman was married and deserves what ever comes his way. A man that knowingly messes with another guys woman should expect violence coming his way. And I would vote not guilty on the jury.

When it deals with APs I feel like Clint in Gran Torino where he tells the delinquent punks 

" You ever notice how you come across some body every once in a while you shouldn't have F'ed with? That's me!"

I thank God he put me with a woman that feels the same, because I do not like where my mind goes when thinking about what I would do to an AP.


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## Divinely Favored

Casual Observer said:


> The polygraph thing- from what I’ve read on TAM, the key is to focus on a single question, at most two. It’s not a fishing expedition. So you could ask “Did you have sex more than once” but not “when and where did you have sex.”


Best to have her make a time line from beginning of any straying and then just ask is the time line you gave OP true and correct...Yes or No


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## Dictum Veritas

Divinely Favored said:


> The man knew him and her, knew they were married. This dude transgressed against OP also and owes his pound of flesh and should expect to pay it. It is up to OP if he wanted to enforce payment.
> 
> The guy knew the woman was married and deserves what ever comes his way. A man that knowingly messes with another guys woman should expect violence coming his way. And I would vote not guilty on the jury.
> 
> When it deals with APs I feel like Clint in Gran Torino where he tells the delinquent punks
> 
> " You ever notice how you come across some body every once in a while you shouldn't have F'ed with? That's me!"
> 
> I thank God he put me with a woman that feels the same, because I do not like where my mind goes when thinking about what I would do to an AP.


If I were on a jury I'd go as far as to vote not guilty if a BS killed the adulterous spouse and AP, but the chances of people like you and me would serve on such a jury is null and we would be disqualified to do so most probably (even were I a US Citizen).

Your average juror never went through infidelity and is in the media-programmed affair apology camp.

Nope, the law is so far against a BS hurting the adulterous, it's not worth it. Don't do time or worse for those slimly scum.


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## ConanHub

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


Ugh. She needed to confess and also quit associating with her affair partner. She might have had to quit but I guess she is more of a rug sweeper and your best interests and agency aren't really a priority for her.

I'm glad she is looking out for herself in all this.😵‍💫

I guess she expects you to just eat her poop sandwich and she gets no repercussions for this?

It's wonderful for her that she got to continue working with her f buddy and still keep her marriage to you with no inconvenience for herself.


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## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> The man knew him and her, knew they were married. This dude transgressed against OP also and owes his pound of flesh and should expect to pay it. It is up to OP if he wanted to enforce payment.
> 
> The guy knew the woman was married and deserves what ever comes his way. A man that knowingly messes with another guys woman should expect violence coming his way. And I would vote not guilty on the jury.
> 
> When it deals with APs I feel like Clint in Gran Torino where he tells the delinquent punks
> 
> " You ever notice how you come across some body every once in a while you shouldn't have F'ed with? That's me!"
> 
> I thank God he put me with a woman that feels the same, because I do not like where my mind goes when thinking about what I would do to an AP.


I am sure I would feel v angry in the situation but violence never helps and I wouldn't want to go to jail.


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## Megaforce

MrSamsonite said:


> I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


Why not simply require a polygraph? You, absolutely, do noot know for sure, as you claim. Be rational. Your wife planned to one night stand. She lied to you for 12 years. You would know nothing of this but for the man who did you a favor and told you.
Seriously, you" just know" she has told you the truth? That is irrational.


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## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sorry for misunderstanding. I was sad, I really like your posts and would be bummed.


My never enough English is frequently behind some misunderstandings. Sorry, my fault.
I also like your posts.


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## D0nnivain

Dictum Veritas said:


> If I were on a jury I'd go as far as to vote not guilty if a BS killed the adulterous spouse and AP, but the chances of people like you and me would serve on such a jury is null and we would be disqualified to do so most probably (even were I a US Citizen).
> 
> Your average juror never went through infidelity and is in the media-programmed affair apology camp.


Adultery is NOT a capital crime. It doesn't matter how much that unforgivable betrayal hurt you, That is no excuse for murder. Stop glorifying killing.

Get a divorce & move on. Grow up & stop thinking it's OK to spout hateful rhetoric about murdering somebody. Death is not the answer no matter how heartbroken you are.


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## jonty30

SnowToArmPits said:


> Adultery is NOT a capital crime. It doesn't matter how much that unforgivable betrayal hurt you, That is no excuse for murder. Stop glorifying killing.
> 
> Get a divorce & move on. Grow up & stop thinking it's OK to spout hateful rhetoric about murdering somebody. Death is not the answer no matter how heartbroken you are.


When the other spouse cheats, it just becomes business at that point.
No need to invest in the marriage or in them after you become aware.


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## 86857

Very similar situation:
A friend (BS) & H went to couples therapy after she discovered he had ONS years before, marriage happy up to then, H very remorseful.

At the first session, the FIRST thing the therapist did was to address the H, not BS.
She said he would have to answer, with 100% honesty, every question the BS asked him, down to the minutest detail BS wanted.
She then told BS to go to another room, take 10-15 mins, more if needed, and write down absolutely every question she could think of.
BS had asked H about details. But she said that when the therapist said that, it made her realise she had a heck of a lot more than she thought she had.

Afterwards, BS felt fairly confident it was a ONS & that she had all the details of it cos she could see that H had been caught off-guard.
By the time they got to the car-park, my friend realised that she'd have to divorce H because:
1. Despite being confident she got the truth about the ONS, she wouldn't ever feel 100% sure that H hadn't met the ONS AP again, or hadn't had other ONS s.
2. She knew she would never be able to put the images out of her head, no matter how many years passed, and couldn't even imagine ever sleeping with H again.

My advice OP? Make a list of every question you can think of. Present them to W at your next session of couples therapy (i.e. don't ask her at home).
Stop focusing blame-wise on AP. As other posters said, absolutely tell AP's W if married & STBEH did you a huge favour.
You don't have to live with AP (or the STBEH!) for the rest of your life.
You're focusing on the wrong people, instead of W.
Your situation is even more difficult cos she's going to work with AP for another few years .


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## Divinely Favored

D0nnivain said:


> Adultery is NOT a capital crime. It doesn't matter how much that unforgivable betrayal hurt you, That is no excuse for murder. Stop glorifying killing.
> 
> Get a divorce & move on. Grow up & stop thinking it's OK to spout hateful rhetoric about murdering somebody. Death is not the answer no matter how heartbroken you are.


Not in the US govt law code unfortunately. Shame it is not...adultry, paternity fraud and the destruction of families would not be so prevalent.


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## TexasMom1216

Dictum Veritas said:


> If I were on a jury I'd go as far as to vote not guilty if a BS killed the adulterous spouse and AP, but the chances of people like you and me would serve on such a jury is null and we would be disqualified to do so most probably (even were I a US Citizen).
> 
> Your average juror never went through infidelity and is in the media-programmed affair apology camp.
> 
> Nope, the law is so far against a BS hurting the adulterous, it's not worth it. Don't do time or worse for those slimly scum.


Yeah, we don’t do that here. We don’t stone women for adultery. As much as many men would like to be allowed to kill women without penalty, our secular society decided it was wrong to kill even if it’s a woman. 🙄


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## ElOtro

When something completelly unrelated to gender like sexual / romantic unloyalty (that is, some men and women cheat, some women and men don´t) becomes another scenario of a battle of the gender wars I loose yet another bit of hope on our species.


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## ABHale

MrSamsonite said:


> There is nothing I can do about them working together. It is a unique job. You cannot transfer. You work here, or you quit. Quitting is not an option. It is very difficult to not be in the area at the same time as another person. It has been done on rare occasion. When it happens, it always causes a lot of discussion amongst the others as to why. I know this "thing" is long passed and over. I can discuss this with my wife. I will think about it.


It is sad to see. How one blindly believes the one that broke the marriage vows. How messed up that really is.


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## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, we don’t do that here. We don’t stone women for adultery. As much as many men would like to be allowed to kill women without penalty, our secular society decided it was wrong to kill even if it’s a woman. 🙄


You know, I would never harm a woman physically unless it was unavoidable.

I've had several "conversations" with men over the years (edited for TAM guidelines) though and I would definitely have a "conversation" with any man that knowingly trespassed into my garden.

I would hold Mrs. Conan responsible for her behavior in the case of infidelity though she is as faithful as the sunrise, but I would never raise a hand to her 

Men who knowingly trespass into another man's marriage get no sympathy from this barbarian for any repercussions that come their way.😈


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## ABHale

I see the confrontation now.

OP: I know you slept with my wife!

POSOM: So does everyone that works here. They all know you couldn’t full fill her needs.

OP you lose in any confrontation.


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## TexasMom1216

No one deserves such treatment. I’m so sorry, OP.


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## Dictum Veritas

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, we don’t do that here. We don’t stone women for adultery. As much as many men would like to be allowed to kill women without penalty, our secular society decided it was wrong to kill even if it’s a woman. 🙄


Read my comment again, no sex is specified or implied. I just know the pain is so great that someone can loose control and act in the moment to the point of murder.

Why do you always insist on making everything about women?


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## TexasMom1216

Dictum Veritas said:


> Read my comment again, no sex is specified or implied. I just know the pain is so great that someone can loose control and act in the moment to the point of murder.
> 
> Why do you always insist on making everything about women?


Ok, fair. You did not and I made it about that. I apologize, I went the wrong way with it. Sorry about that.


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## Junebug86

MrSamsonite said:


> I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


My ex-husband is a retired ATC. Not sure what it is about the people that work in that profession. We saw it all the time. It was just like a cat and mouse game. Considering it’s male dominated, I think they challenge each other. The men bantered with the women all the time. There were no boundaries. Shift work doesn’t help matters. As a woman who was married to an air traffic controller, do I think based on what I saw and experienced that it was a ONS, absolutely! Why did my husband and I divorce? One night stands, always when he was out with his buddies from the center. Yes, you don’t just quit your job as an air traffic controller. It’s not like you can get another job. Unless, you have traveled in these circles, it’s difficult to understand that. At one time, the profession had the highest rate of suicide, divorce and alcoholism.


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## jonty30

Hi stress, hysterical bondings.


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## jsmart

@Junebug86 you said you believe the OP’s wife really could have been a ONS based on what you saw with your ex and his coworkers. Was his ONS with a coworker or with a woman he met at a bar/club? I ask because I find the OP’s wife’s story of this being a ONS with no further hookups hard to believe I say that based on how we see workplace affairs evolve. 

Do you think a woman would risk hooking up with a coworker that her husband also works at, if she wasn’t really into the guy? That they didn’t have a build up to eventually having sex? Then once having sex that they could continue to work closely and not be tempted to hook up again?

personally, I wonder if she went to counseling to deal with breaking up with the guy and still have to work closely with him, not because she was all torn up for betraying her husband.


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## truststone

sideways said:


> So she's worked with this guy for the past twelve years and you're convinced that there was only this ONS?? And she never came Clean on her own volition and you had to find out from someone else.
> 
> You are in denial.


im saying if she really was remorseful how could she continue to work their !! Just think about that !! Also realize she had no intentins of letting you know and she continued to have this man present. Regardless of jobs or not she never told you... ANd the last 12 yrs have been a lie 
ill explain
1) she never told you about it - 12yrs 
2)she continued to lie

lied about why she was doing counseling
lied to your face for 12yrs( because she never told you)
3) i've rd 100s of threads of women who where rtruelly emorseful and 100% of the time never wanted to see the other man agian because it was a constant reminder of their selfish , wrong decision, blah blah blah .. but she didnt show that so how do you know shes remorseful just curious ..????
Again its all about what they d from the moment they are remorseful, stop blaming and begin healing . treating you good has nothing to do with it.. Did she cut him complete , did they stop talking , does the OP wife know if hes married - notice in all these cases your taking a leap to say she did because she couldn't of. why she stayed and continued to work - again that was a choice.. how does that show remorse please explain that too me !!!!
what if the guy blackmailed her to do more stuff since he knew she hadnt told you im just saying things that once seemed obsurb are now possible and that is never good..


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## truststone

MrSamsonite said:


> I must say to the doubters, I am not in denial. I cannot explain how I know, but I do. I guess it is hard to believe in a true one night stand. I get it. But if it ever happened, that **** is buried so deep, no one is ever finding it. I cannot live in fear of things that may exist -despite all evidence to the contrary -because it happens differently for a lot of other people. We have cried a lot of tears. More than I ever thought I was capable of in my entire lifetime. In spite of it all, my wife has been the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish I didn't know about this one incident and I would have died happy. But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.


i understand and we all fealt that too!!! A good marriage is built on trust where love is allowed to grow.. what happens when you break that trust. R is hard work and demands explicit trust to start the healing process . 

the only way you can have R is if theres complete transparency and a commitment to work immensely hard first by her then you. ALso you will have triggers and that guy is one and sooner or later this situation my trigger something in you that isnt healthy.

I get it you wish u didnt have to deal with the knowing I know I know we all said that too which betrayed spouse would ??. you are not alone in that area.. but to heal you must undertand
1) why she did it the first ?
2) why she thought it okay to hid it from you?
- because s he was afraid of loosing you - so lie more
-if she is completely remorseful and wanted to show you she was commmited to regain your trust she would of ben willing to loose you and would of come clean.
3) how could she work next to the guy 
- not be sick in her stomach
4) did she *ever consider your feelings knowing you worked next to him and that this guy was looking at you as if you are a ***** *sorry didnt mean to be hursh-- she didnt she only considered her feelings *AGAIN if your remorseful its about ensuring you never ever hurt your spouse again at all cost and your willing to move hell and heaven to regain their trust .. not continue being deceitful!!!!!!!!!!*

I understand this statement ". *But here we are. I am not going to overturn all that is good in our life for something that happened 12 years ago.". *
but the truth is the last 12 yrs have been a lie

counselling she had you had no idea why? and were left out of that process that could of brought you closer and more intimate
you never knew about the reasons for couselling Again she lied why ( how many more lies)so you cant trust what you say when you say you know your wife because you dont otherwise you would of been able to see the remorsefulness a long time ago not just now.. because a truelly remorseful spouse cannot live with themselves because remorsefuness leads you to never again at all costs want to be be decieful not continue it and lie
the fact she lied so long means she was able to become comfotable with such a deception as that is what time gives
*NOTICE in all these things above you where not part of it you were left out , just like the affiar*
did she talk to him about it did they heal together ??? SO many questions that you do not have the answers and you are her husband

when couples are truelly in love and trust is there the intimacy experienced is a gift because you can honeslty say you know your spouse and vice versa.. Love never *compromises it is unselfish and true love would of propelled her to tell you or at the very least left that Job..

i just cant get over the fact he is still there in such close proximtry . that is such a betrayal i really hope you talk and work through the layers of this in your IC *


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## Junebug86

ABHale said:


> I see the confrontation now.
> 
> OP: I know you slept with my wife!
> 
> POSOM: So does everyone that works here. They all know you couldn’t full fill her needs.
> 
> OP you lose in any confrontation.


Not nice! The guy is already hurting.


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## Taxman

I see this once every few years. Age has a way of calming the sea, however, one senior woman was crying while I was doing her taxes. Seems she and her husband were long time employees of a government office. It came out in their 35th year that shortly after starting she had an ONS with a colleague. She too underwent therapy. OM retired a few months earlier, got drunk at his party, and proceeded to kiss WW in front of everyone, and say their affair was the best part of the job. She said her husband left the party. When She arrived home she saw her BH sitting at his desk in his study. He had a pack of Viagra in his hand. She asked if he wanted to do it? The answer was, “Not with you” Huh? She could not process what came next, he had already rented a furnished apartment. He told her he’d return after he had finished that pack. Not a further word, just FB postings. At 64 she thought tha he would never. She miscalculated.


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## truststone

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


its never about hating your wife , you love who you love thats not the question .. She coul dof found another JOB 12yrs ago.
Listen i would never tell you that she should quite or any of that stuff . But sonner or later you have to dealt with this betrayal first for yourself then with the marriage.. thats all were trying to get you to undertand . AND to be honest if you were so confident about your wife you would take a hard stance to put any doubt in your mind moving forward
1) get a poly just to see if it was only once

Listen part of making a mistake and learnig from it - if we want to call it a mistake is *100% what the cheater does after its that SIMPLE!!*

The problem with lying is that you have to justify why you have to continue with living with the lie by more lie. so how can you move truelly move forward if your not honest with yourself first.. This has nothing to do with you because you never cheated it has to do with her...
what efforts has she made now that you know about it ?
1) has she encouraged you to tell the AP spouse ?
2)is she coming up with ways to prove to you , you can trust her - Again this doesnt have anything to do with giving you an apology
3) im going to attach what another lady who cheated and ended up R with her husband take on what it means if a women is truelly remorseful and what they will do hopefully it does get taken down so it post it below



Her name is
here is her post i had to copy and paste for you

Hi @Newgem

I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard.

So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses.

For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?

So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!

Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way.






Did you wife do any of those and if not why ??
you also need to deal with the hurt


----------



## truststone

MrSamsonite said:


> Thank you. I could easily do that myself. To be honest, making her do it is kind of my **** way of forcing her to carry some of the pain that I feel. I totally understand the skepticism. I've felt it too. The way the story came to me was as a single event. She saw a therapist who advised her that since it was a one time thing and over that there was no reason to risk her marriage by telling me. (That is her story....IDK...I do know she saw a therapist around that time for unknown reasons). We have been as honest as I feel we could be since the reveal. I understand "cheaters, cheat" mantra. I really don't think that's the case here. Anyway, I have pressed. She swears on a river of tears that this is everything. There is nothing else for me to do. I can't think of a single one of our friends that don't look at us and wish they had our marriage. I'm not going to give that up because of one mistake so long ago and the opinion (but I do not mind hearing them) that she cheated a lot more often on my by people that have never met us.


dont give just get her to do a polygraph and you both can then start fresh please read my last post where i copied and pasted what someone esle wrote


----------



## Butforthegrace

I will accept at face value Mr. Samsonite's statement that his WW and the AP only had sex once. My point is that the circumstances suggest it was not a ONS in the classic sense, where two people meet -- for example at a party or in a bar -- and have sex that night, then part. The circumstances here, where it occurred when both the WW and the AP presumably knew Mr. Samsonite would be out of town, suggest a build-up of sexual desire, and some degree of advance planning to have the sex. A mini EA/PA.

As to the atmosphere of toxic masculinity amongst ATC's, I've heard that too. It's likely the AP has at least privately felt a sense of smug self-satisfaction all these years over the idea of "I hit that", especially in the presence of both Mr. Samsonite and his WW. It's also possible that others in the tightly knit workplace know of this and secretly feel some sort of pity for Mr. Samsonite behind his back.

All of that was knowingly created by Mr. Samsonite's WW. She's been an ATC long enough to know how this sort of thing resides and resonates within the workplace. Among other things, when she chose to have sex with the AP who was a coworker, she chose to make Mr. Samsonite into the unwitting brunt of these kinds of private jokes people harbor about him. 

OP, you say: "_I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this_.” You also refer to the cheating as a "single mistake" made many years ago. Can you see the mental gymnastics you've put yourself through to hold those two mutually contradictory feelings at the same time? Your WW didn't make a "single mistake". To plan and execute a sexual encounter with a co-worker, timed while you were gone, required quite a number of precise and clear decisions and choices, and considerable dishonesty to you. Then, to maintain this as a secret from you all these years, even though it was shared with at least one or two others, required ongoing multiple decision points of choosing to be dishonest, never mind some level of active monitoring and such by your WW. 

In choosing this path, she certainly knew that one of the elements of consequences in the bundle of consequences resulting from her choices was that the AP was going to be able to be in your presence for years and feel like he "got away with it." That's not on the AP. He didn't promise you a lifetime of fidelity. That's on your wife. She protected the affair over your truth, and in doing so, she chose to let the AP have that "gimme" as a result.

She chose it because it was easier for her to allow Mr. Samsonite to be subject to the AP's secret gloating that to be an honorable spouse and tell him his truth. It's part of the special sauce of wickedness of what she did. All infidelity is bad, but some inflicts more harm because of details like this.

Confronting the AP won't resolve this. It's the WW who made these choices. Mr. Samsonite should take his anger out on his WW.


----------



## Diana7

If a person is truly remorseful surely they will come clean and tell their spouse. I cant imagine keep such a betrayal from Mr D for even one day. 12 Years of deception, I couldn't trust again.


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## Rus47

Is this thread an orphan?


----------



## marko polo

You do not have the full truth. It is unlikely you ever will.

Confrontation will likely back fire on you especially if you make threats that he is able to document ie via txt. 

If you have no documented proof of the affair you have smoke and ashes. 

Going forward broken trust is always going to be just that - broken. Your wife did what she did because she wanted to and she could. 

Good luck whatever you choose to do.


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## MartinMoniz

The way I see it, you're not leaving your wife.
In this case, you have two options.
1. You will stay in beta and be sad all the time.
2. You will live your life even if you stay married.
Your wife lives without caring about you. Why don't you do it? Go sleep with a woman. No regrets. This is not revenge. Let it be your revenge for not helping her when she needs you most.


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## GoldenR

And if he had wanted her full-time? 

Have you thought about that?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

GoldenR said:


> And if he had wanted her full-time?
> 
> Have you thought about that?


Would have saved him from 12 years worth of lies. That at least would have been the bright side.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Note: *Please do not make posts that could be viewed as glorifying violence against a wayward spouse or an affair partner.


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## 86857

How are you doing @MrSamsonite?


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## ABHale

Junebug86 said:


> Not nice! The guy is already hurting.


Just a dose of what would happen if he tries to confront the other man like he is wanting to do. It could actually go a lot worse then I have stated.


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## MattMatt

*The promotion of violence is against the rules of TAM.*









Posting Guidelines - Forum Rules (2022)


Thank you for visiting Talk About Marriage. Talk About Marriage is a forum to discuss marriage and relationships. Here, we interpret the word "marriage" loosely, recognizing that many different people from different cultures view marriage differently. Please observe our posting guidelines...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Forum Rules:

1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect. Personal attacks, name calling, hate speech, racist or sexist statements or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated. The term “Personal” here extends to other TAM posters, their spouse, family members, and others might come up in discussion in their posts.


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## Junebug86

jsmart said:


> @Junebug86 you said you believe the OP’s wife really could have been a ONS based on what you saw with your ex and his coworkers. Was his ONS with a coworker or with a woman he met at a bar/club? I ask because I find the OP’s wife’s story of this being a ONS with no further hookups hard to believe I say that based on how we see workplace affairs evolve.
> 
> Do you think a woman would risk hooking up with a coworker that her husband also works at, if she wasn’t really into the guy? That they didn’t have a build up to eventually having sex? Then once having sex that they could continue to work closely and not be tempted to hook up again?
> 
> personally, I wonder if she went to counseling to deal with breaking up with the guy and still have to work closely with him, not because she was all torn up for betraying her husband.


My husband had many ONS and one that involved a controller that worked on a different shift at the same facility. The others were at bars when he was with his buddies. As for the ATC scene, yes I do believe it very well could one time. It was just a challenge, those folks are not going to get tangled up into an affair. I have seen strange things at parties, switch partners, hook up at the party right in front of your spouse, etc. One of my single female friends that was an ATC, offered it to anyone. She wore a shirt to work one day that said, if you can get it up, I can control it. Doesn’t that say she’s looking for attention? I’ve known ATC that were completely faithful and avoided the drama. It’s a different environment. Not only that, even with wive still working with the AP, chances are they in different sections, work different schedules, etc. Let me put it this way, it’s not your average office environment that most of us are use to working in.


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## DownByTheRiver

Divinely Favored said:


> Not in the US govt law code unfortunately. Shame it is not...adultry, paternity fraud and the destruction of families would not be so prevalent.


A whole lot of people just wouldn't get married. Because a whole lot of people know if they have a cheating heart.


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## Casual Observer

Junebug86 said:


> My husband had many ONS and one that involved a controller that worked on a different shift at the same facility. The others were at bars when he was with his buddies. As for the ATC scene, yes I do believe it very well could one time. It was just a challenge, those folks are not going to get tangled up into an affair. I have seen strange things at parties, switch partners, hook up at the party right in front of your spouse, etc. One of my single female friends that was an ATC, offered it to anyone. She wore a shirt to work one day that said, if you can get it up, I can control it. Doesn’t that say she’s looking for attention? I’ve known ATC that were completely faithful and avoided the drama. It’s a different environment. Not only that, even with wive still working with the AP, chances are they in different sections, work different schedules, etc. Let me put it this way, it’s not your average office environment that most of us are use to working in.


Regardless of environment, it remains a choice, a series of little decisions, erosions of relational integrity that lead to the affair. If the environment is so toxic that one sees the potential to be significant, too much temptation, and stays in that environment for MONEY over their spouse… what does that say?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Junebug86 said:


> My husband had many ONS and one that involved a controller that worked on a different shift at the same facility. The others were at bars when he was with his buddies. As for the ATC scene, yes I do believe it very well could one time. It was just a challenge, those folks are not going to get tangled up into an affair. I have seen strange things at parties, switch partners, hook up at the party right in front of your spouse, etc. One of my single female friends that was an ATC, offered it to anyone. She wore a shirt to work one day that said, if you can get it up, I can control it. Doesn’t that say she’s looking for attention? I’ve known ATC that were completely faithful and avoided the drama. It’s a different environment. Not only that, even with wive still working with the AP, chances are they in different sections, work different schedules, etc. Let me put it this way, it’s not your average office environment that most of us are use to working in.


Got it, thanks. Another profession to warn my children to avoid and avoid marrying someone who is in it.

But wait, OP worked there too and somehow he remained faithful. So using the job as excuse is not valid. It's his wife's low character and that of her AP that made this adulterous betrayal happen.


----------



## jsmart

@Junebug86 . I can believe that the ATC field is rife with adultery and promiscuity but I believe the fact that OP worked at this place changes the dynamic. His wife had to be really into this guy to risk her marriage. I don’t buy that OP left town for a couple of days and his wife innocently got together with OM and things got out of hand. This was a planned encounter that was preceded by a build up to having sex and very likely was part of an affair.

That she shared this with her friend, makes me think it was an on going affair. Maybe as a guy, I don’t understand a woman’s thinking but I feel that a WW is more likely to share if she’s having an affair than a ONS. I believe a guy is more likely to share that he had a ONS than an affair.


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## Dictum Veritas

I can but wonder what OP's thought are on this entire discussion. He's been silent, hopefully he's reading, taking this all in and thinking.


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## jsmart

I wish OP would come back to provide more info on how his sex life and overall affection levels in their marriage was back then. I understand that things have been good in recent years but was that the case during that time? I have a feeling that things turned around dramatically which is why OP is so in love with his wife. But was she detached for a while? Did she reconnect by guilt driven desire to make it up to him? Or did it take counseling and time to get over OM before she warmed up?

@Divinely Favored was first to bring up the possibility that his wife went for counseling not because of guilt but because she was having a hard time with a break up with OM and having to reattach to her husband. To me, that sounds way more probable.


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## jonty30

jsmart said:


> I wish OP would come back to provide more info on how his sex life and overall affection levels in their marriage was back then. I understand that things have been good in recent years but was that the case during that time? I have a feeling that things turned around dramatically which is why OP is so in love with his wife. But was she detached for a while? Did she reconnect by guilt driven desire to make it up to him? Or did it take counseling and time to get over OM before she warmed up?
> 
> @Divinely Favored was first to bring up the possibility that his wife went for counseling not because of guilt but because she was having a hard time with a break up with OM and having to reattach to her husband. To me, that sounds way more probable.


You can almost time the dates of an improved marriage where the wayward ended their affair.


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## Divinely Favored

@Divinely Favored was first to bring up the possibility that his wife went for counseling not because of guilt but because she was having a hard time with a break up with OM and having to reattach to her husband. To me, that sounds way more probable.
[/QUOTE]

Sister was in ER after drinking the activated charcoal and was upset she had messed on her favorite panties that AP had given her. Pisses me off.


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## Junebug86

jsmart said:


> @Junebug86 . I can believe that the ATC field is rife with adultery and promiscuity but I believe the fact that OP worked at this place changes the dynamic. His wife had to be really into this guy to risk her marriage. I don’t buy that OP left town for a couple of days and his wife innocently got together with OM and things got out of hand. This was a planned encounter that was preceded by a build up to having sex and very likely was part of an affair.
> 
> That she shared this with her friend, makes me think it was an on going affair. Maybe as a guy, I don’t understand a woman’s thinking but I feel that a WW is more likely to share if she’s having an affair than a ONS. I believe a guy is more likely to share that he had a ONS than an affair.


She made the decision to cheat, probably flattered by all the attention and that’s all it took! Of course it was premeditated.


Dictum Veritas said:


> Got it, thanks. Another profession to warn my children to avoid and avoid marrying someone who is in it.
> 
> But wait, OP worked there too and somehow he remained faithful. So using the job as excuse is not valid. It's his wife's low character and that of her AP that made this adulterous betrayal happen.





Dictum Veritas said:


> Got it, thanks. Another profession to warn my children to avoid and avoid marrying someone who is in it.
> 
> But wait, OP worked there too and somehow he remained faithful. So using the job as excuse is not valid. It's his wife's low character and that of her AP that made this adulterous betrayal happen.


I tried to reconcile with ex but, knew that


----------



## Junebug86

Junebug86 said:


> She made the decision to cheat, probably flattered by all the attention and that’s all it took! Of course it was premeditated.
> 
> I tried to reconcile with ex but, knew that I didn’t want to wait around for what was next to come. The environment was toxic, young people making high salaries behaving like children. There were 180 controllers at the center where my ex worked, 11 were going through a divorce at the same time. There is something about the controllers that they believe they are special. Not many people have the aptitude to be a controller. This gives them the sense of being unique/special and feeds their narcissistic behavior.


----------



## Diana7

MartinMoniz said:


> The way I see it, you're not leaving your wife.
> In this case, you have two options.
> 1. You will stay in beta and be sad all the time.
> 2. You will live your life even if you stay married.
> Your wife lives without caring about you. Why don't you do it? Go sleep with a woman. No regrets. This is not revenge. Let it be your revenge for not helping her when she needs you most.
> 
> 
> View attachment 87414


So he should go and act in the same terrible way she has? 
Honestly that will not help.


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## Dictum Veritas

Diana7 said:


> So he should go and act in the same terrible way she has?
> Honestly that will not help.


She broke the vows and the covenant where God was called to witness and bless their union. Spiritually speaking he's not married anymore.


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## Junebug86

Diana7 said:


> So he should go and act in the same terrible way she has?
> Honestly that will not help.


I’m not sure that accomplishes anything. That makes him a cheater too.


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## jsmart

jonty30 said:


> You can almost time the dates of an improved marriage where the wayward ended their affair.


Where the WW ended the affair yes but if the WW was dropped, it can take a while to reattach to their husband. Some are never able to reconnect like they were before the affair and the couple just go into an auto pilot of “this is how marriage is” thinking. But in general I think you’re right that things start to improve or at least stop deteriorating once the affair partner is not in the picture. Problem is that she kept working closely with the guy. That’s why I don’t buy that it was a once and done.


----------



## Rus47

jsmart said:


> Problem is that she kept working closely with the guy. That’s why I don’t buy that it was a once and done.


But if her AP dumped her as you surmise, her working with him might have been painful for awhile for HER, but AP was on to other conquests, not interested in her anymore as long as fresh meat was readily on offer. OP mentioned the AP added notches to his belt, very attractive to women married or not. So OP’s wife was nothing to AP once he had her notch on his belt. Maybe that is why OP KNOWS his wife was one and done with the AP. For sure, the other men at work know of wife’s availability have been pestering her for more than a decade. Maybe she has resisted but that is doubtful, old habits die hard


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## Junebug86

Rus47 said:


> But if her AP dumped her as you surmise, her working with him might hav


It’s the culture of that group of people. Everything is a game. The wive might have been them one to dump the AF partner as well.


----------



## Rus47

Junebug86 said:


> It’s the culture of that group of people. Everything is a game. The wive might have been them one to dump the AF partner as well.


Kinda like the medical field or military. Long hours in highly charged environment in close proximity to members of opposite sex

I always wonder how these actively promiscuous people avoid all catching every STD known to the medical community.


----------



## jonty30

Rus47 said:


> Kinda like the medical field or military. Long hours in highly charged environment in close proximity to members of opposite sex
> 
> I always wonder how these actively promiscuous people avoid all catching every STD known to the medical community.


Probably doing nightly raids in the penicillin cabinet.


----------



## Rus47

jonty30 said:


> Probably doing nightly raids in the penecillen cabinet.


Penicillin does no good on a virus. Which a lot of STDs are. Condoms ineffective against viruses.


----------



## ABHale

How are you doing @MrSamsonite ?


----------



## jsmart

I’d like for women to chime in on if a WW is likely to tell a close friend of a ONS as opposed to sharing about an ongoing affair. I think men are more likely to brag about an ONS than they are about an on going affair but suspect that it’s the opposite for women.


----------



## jonty30

jsmart said:


> I’d like for women to chime in on if a WW is likely to tell a close friend of a ONS as opposed to sharing about an ongoing affair. I think men are more likely to brag about an ONS than they are about an on going affair but suspect that it’s the opposite for women.


If I had an ONS, while married, I either wouldn't say anything or I would give details but back date it to before I was married. I wouldn't want people to know I betrayed my marriage.


----------



## ABHale

jsmart said:


> I’d like for women to chime in on if a WW is likely to tell a close friend of a ONS as opposed to sharing about an ongoing affair. I think men are more likely to brag about an ONS than they are about an on going affair but suspect that it’s the opposite for women.


Almost all of the women on here have been the betrayed spouse. The don’t have a cheater’s mind.


----------



## jsmart

But they have a woman’s mind. I don’t have to have been a WH to know that men don’t share about an affair. I have heard guys brag about having a ONS. Have never had a guy share about an affair.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Me personally, I'd have phoned a lawyer as soon as I found out about this. I don't care how good the marriage has been, This is beyond reprehensible. The lying for 12 years is grounds enough to divorce her.As far as the POS coworker goes, he'd have to stay considerable distance from me going forward.


----------



## Casual Observer

jonty30 said:


> If I had an ONS, while married, I either wouldn't say anything or I would give details but back date it to before I was married. I wouldn't want people to know I betrayed my marriage.


But keeping a secret like that from your spouse is arguably a greater betrayal than the act itself. Because it’s a continuing breach of trust, one that you intend to never end. A marriage that one believed is dependent upon lies and omissions to survive is a denial of agency. It’s the ultimate manipulation. And since lies have a way of being discovered…


----------



## TJW

I think you're correct to not commit financial suicide over this. If you force your wife to quit her job, you will suffer loss. You do not deserve to suffer loss. 



Casual Observer said:


> it’s a continuing breach of trust, one that you intend to never end.


My WW was dumped by her OM. She fully intended to carry her affair into another relationship, not only that, but to take our kids with her. It took me more than a year to recognize this. Once I did, however, I was never again vulnerable in the slightest way. And, no Sir. I was not going to be the one paying through the nose, trying to be a weekend father, and enabling her to continue her adultery.

Let the evil people live with themselves about what they did. And, let them live on their nickel, not yours.



Rus47 said:


> always wonder how these actively promiscuous people avoid all catching every STD known to the medical community.


It is actually quite common for promiscuous people to contract venereal disease.


----------



## Asterix

MrSamsonite said:


> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.


Could it be possible that, had he been interested in her, instead of just getting a notch in his belt, then this could have been more than just a ONS? I'm sure your wife will now swear to high heavens that she'd never do such a thing, but she did. Also, her word is worth less than crap at this point. I understand that you feel otherwise. But she chose to lie to your face every single day with you being none the wiser for her own selfish ends. She took your agency away to make a decision. As you said it yourself, had you knew then what you know now, you would have left her. I understand that you are retired now, and leaving now would significantly erode all the nest egg that you've built up and you both won't be able to afford the lifestyle separately that you are living now.



MrSamsonite said:


> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.


I don't really understand why people call "it" a "mistake". Her cheating was a series of decision. It's not like, they met up in the break room in the passing, and he asked her "hey, I've got fifteen minutes. Do you want to go to the bathroom to hook up quickly?" and then she said yes. They mostly chatted for weeks if not months, he flirted and then she flirted back. This likely went on for a while. Then they went out on a date, followed by maybe the first/second/third base. Another day, another date and a home run. At every step of the way, she made a decision to give in. I have a strong feeling that she gave it some serious thought about this. She was not a 15 year old person when this happened. She knew what she was doing and she knew it was bad and she didn't tell you about it AT ALL. Had her friend not told her soon-to-be-ex-who-likes-everone-to-be-miserable, you would have never known and she would have taken this to her grave.



MrSamsonite said:


> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


Your wife telling this guy should have no bearing on whether he lives in your head rent free. All the anger and feelings that you have towards this person, is misdirected. All that that should be towards your wife. She was okay with you rubbing shoulders and sharing lunches with this guy. That is a significant level of disrespect that your wife can show towards you. You guys have been married for a long time. Your wife knows what your buttons are, she knows what she can say to calm you down. So, I think she said whatever she knew would work on you to get you to calm down so that she can continue keeping her lifestyle. It does not look like she ever felt the consequences for her actions. She certainly made sure to convince you that she did.



MrSamsonite said:


> Thank you. I could easily do that myself. To be honest, making her do it is kind of my **** way of forcing her to carry some of the pain that I feel. I totally understand the skepticism. I've felt it too. The way the story came to me was as a single event. She saw a therapist who advised her that since it was a one time thing and over that there was no reason to risk her marriage by telling me.


*If you really want her to face the pain that you feel, then making her tell him is not going to achieve it. If you really want it, then ask her to tell your and her parents as well as your kids about her ONS. She needs to own it up anyway.*


----------



## Junebug86

jsmart said:


> I’d like for women to chime in on if a WW is likely to tell a close friend of a ONS as opposed to sharing about an ongoing affair. I think men are more likely to brag about an ONS than they are about an on going affair but suspect that it’s the opposite for women.


I think you are right, a woman might be afraid as seen as a ***** in a ONS situation but not in an affair. They wouldn’t brag about either situation but, might confide an affair to a close friend.


----------



## Rus47

Junebug86 said:


> I think you are right, a woman might be afraid as seen as a *** in a ONS situation but not in an affair. They wouldn’t brag about either situation but, might confide an affair to a close friend.


FWIW, the WW on another long thread bragged back and forth on SM with a female coworker about their respective affairs. She complained her AP wasnt as well hung as her friends AP or even her husband. Her husband got to read her whole sordid story months after she stopped (after catching STD from her promiscuous partner who was also “marriied”). Their mutual female coworkers all cheered them on and fully enthusiastic. “You go girl!”

They were all “educators”.


----------



## Junebug86

Rus47 said:


> FWIW, the WW on another long thread bragged back and forth on SM with a female coworker about their respective affairs. She complained her AP wasnt as well hung as her friends AP or even her husband. Her husband got to read her whole sordid story months after she stopped (after catching STD from her promiscuous partner who was also “marriied”). Their mutual female coworkers all cheered them on and fully enthusiastic. “You go girl!”
> 
> They were all “educators”.


Rather sickening


----------



## sideways

********** said:


> How are you doing @MrSamsonite?


I think he may have left the building. Hopefully he returns.


----------



## 86857

jsmart said:


> But they have a woman’s mind. I don’t have to have been a WH to know that men don’t share about an affair. I have heard guys brag about having a ONS. Have never had a guy share about an affair.


In my experience, women share very personal details about their marriage problems much like posting on TAM. I've been told about ONS and affairs. I've heard from friends that their friend had a ONS or is having an affair (i.e. people I don't know). I've never heard bragging.
I think a woman will confide whether if it was a ONS or is an A. 

Thus it's may be a ONS in OP's case.
I don't think it matters. Like many posters I wouldn't classify it as a ONS. It wasn't a random meeting in a bar. They worked together & BS worked there too which makes it a lot worse. Hiding it for so long makes it worse again. The workplace culture is no excuse.


----------



## Rus47

sideways said:


> I think he may have left the building. Hopefully he returns.


He was last here reading all of the wisdom imparted by us sages over 150+ posts about 8 hours ago. I suspect it has served his purpose, seeking thoughts about confronting his wife's ONS partner. I hope he takes the advice to ignore the AP and NOT "confront" him or ask his wife to confront her AP.

All the rest of our banter conflicts with what he "kmows" about the "ONS" and his wife. He already knew how he was going to proceed with his wife. i.e. wait until she retires from work and sail off into the sunset with her. Doubt anything written in this thread has changed his plan.


----------



## Casual Observer

sideways said:


> I think he may have left the building. Hopefully he returns.


Nope, he’s still here, last time 9 hours ago. There’s a lot to take in. He has to decide if different rules really do apply to ATC folk.


----------



## Junebug86

Casual Observer said:


> Nope, he’s still here, last time 9 hours ago. There’s a lot to take in. He has to decide if different rules really do apply to ATC folk.


I wouldn’t say different rules apply but, the environment certainly is unusual.


----------



## jonty30

Casual Observer said:


> But keeping a secret like that from your spouse is arguably a greater betrayal than the act itself. Because it’s a continuing breach of trust, one that you intend to never end. A marriage that one believed is dependent upon lies and omissions to survive is a denial of agency. It’s the ultimate manipulation. And since lies have a way of being discovered…


I agree with you. I'm neither the type to wayward, nor would I be the type to tell my friends how I'm pulling something over the spouse at home.
I wouldn't keep friends like that who would laugh along at my practical joke over my spouse.


----------



## jonty30

Casual Observer said:


> Nope, he’s still here, last time 9 hours ago. There’s a lot to take in. He has to decide if different rules really do apply to ATC folk.


It's a blow to hear and can take months to process what is going on.


----------



## cp3o

Rus47 said:


> Penicillin does no good on a virus. Which a lot of STDs are. Condoms ineffective against viruses.


_Condoms ineffective against viruses._
Please cite your source(s).

A quick search suggests that, whilst not 100% effective and with the caveat that incorrect use increases risk, your simple statement is inaccurate.

For example - _Conclusion_ - _Nevertheless, this study shows that, while imperfect, condoms appear highly effective in preventing viral transmission. _





NEJM Journal Watch: Summaries of and commentary on original medical and scientific articles from key medical journals


NEJM Journal Watch reviews over 250 scientific and medical journals to present important clinical research findings and insightful commentary




www.jwatch.org


----------



## jonty30

cp3o said:


> _Condoms ineffective against viruses._
> Please cite your source(s).
> 
> A quick search suggests that, whilst not 100% effective and with the caveat that incorrect use increases risk, your simple statement is inaccurate.
> 
> For example - _Conclusion_ - _Nevertheless, this study shows that, while imperfect, condoms appear highly effective in preventing viral transmission. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEJM Journal Watch: Summaries of and commentary on original medical and scientific articles from key medical journals
> 
> 
> NEJM Journal Watch reviews over 250 scientific and medical journals to present important clinical research findings and insightful commentary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jwatch.org


Some simply don't care. 
They wear gloves when dealing with patients.


----------



## Rus47

cp3o said:


> _Condoms ineffective against viruses._
> Please cite your source(s).
> 
> A quick search suggests that, whilst not 100% effective and with the caveat that incorrect use increases risk, your simple statement is inaccurate.
> 
> For example - _Conclusion_ - _Nevertheless, this study shows that, while imperfect, condoms appear highly effective in preventing viral transmission. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEJM Journal Watch: Summaries of and commentary on original medical and scientific articles from key medical journals
> 
> 
> NEJM Journal Watch reviews over 250 scientific and medical journals to present important clinical research findings and insightful commentary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jwatch.org


Ok


----------



## MartinMoniz

You do not understand. His wife cheated and hid it for 12 years. And it continued to work with ap. His wife doesn't care about him. And he is not leaving her. What happens when he cheats on his wife? Nothing. Because his wife doesn't love him. I don't want the man to be sad all the time. I want him to live his life. I think he should divorce her. But he doesn't


----------



## Junebug86

MartinMoniz said:


> You do not understand. His wife cheated and hid it for 12 years. And it continued to work with ap. His wife doesn't care about him. And he is not leaving her. What happens when he cheats on his wife? Nothing. Because his wife doesn't love him. I don't want the man to be sad all the time. I want him to live his life. I think he should divorce her. But he doesn't


Only he can decide that. The only two people that knows what has gone on in their marriage is the two of them. We are also hearing his side of the story.


----------



## jsmart

Rus47 said:


> All the rest of our banter conflicts with what he "kmows" about the "ONS" and his wife. He already knew how he was going to proceed with his wife. i.e. wait until she retires from work and sail off into the sunset with her. Doubt anything written in this thread has changed his plan.


I would think that he should want to be sure about what took place. We have had many threads where the betrayed thought they had the whole story only to find out there was way more to it that was discovered after probing questions were asked due to the feedback from TAM. Spending years in TAM and other sites, has opened most of our eyes to things that newly betrayed spouses would never think about. It doesn’t mean he has to divorce if it turns out that it was indeed a full fledged affair, like most of us believe.

He should want to know exactly what he is forgiving. Some of the most painful post to read are those from betrayed spouses that regret pursuing R decades later. Enduring a lukewarm marriage with doubt in the back of their head does a number on a person. These are usually people that rug swept everything and quickly accepted the “truth” to later find out it was way more to the betrayal. OP already had to work side by side with the guy who banged his wife, with possibly other work colleagues knowing. That’s is truly F’d up of his wife.


----------



## TexasMom1216

I agree you can’t “forgive” unless you either have the truth or decide you don’t want to know. I know plenty of women who just don’t ask because they know the truth would break their heart and humiliate them even more than they were anyway.


----------



## MrSamsonite

I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you

The responses came fast and heavy. I only made it through a couple of pages before I had to quit. It was painful to read. I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it. But maybe I was in denial? I am thinking hard about this now. We will have some serious conversations with a therapist. Many of you say "divorce!". But I don't want that. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.

I have taken a lot of notes on your many posts here. I am going to post a long update on everything that happened. I only expected a cursory response from you all. Since you are "all in", I will be too. I finally finished reading all 9 pages of responses. Give me a day to process. At first, I thought you all were insane with the polygraph stuff, now I see where you are coming from. I've only hit on the barest details thinking they were enough. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow.

BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.

I am so tired now though. Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


----------



## Openminded

Stories of cheating spouses tend to bring out strong emotions since many of us have been cheated on and a lot of marriages have been destroyed. I hope all goes well for you.


----------



## jonty30

MrSamsonite said:


> I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you
> 
> The responses came fast and heavy. I only made it through a couple of pages before I had to quit. It was painful to read. I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it. But maybe I was in denial? I am thinking hard about this now. We will have some serious conversations with a therapist. Many of you say "divorce!". But I don't want that. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.
> 
> I have taken a lot of notes on your many posts here. I am going to post a long update on everything that happened. I only expected a cursory response from you all. Since you are "all in", I will be too. I finally finished reading all 9 pages of responses. Give me a day to process. At first, I thought you all were insane with the polygraph stuff, now I see where you are coming from. I've only hit on the barest details thinking they were enough. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow.
> 
> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.
> 
> I am so tired now though. Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


It sucks to realize what you know is not all you should know. We feel your pain. I hope it all goes well with you.


----------



## Rus47

MrSamsonite said:


> ..Many of you say "divorce!". *But I don't want that*. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a *stronger man to try and save it*.
> 
> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.
> 
> *I am so tired now though.* Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


I feel terrible for the sandwich your wife has delivered for you to eat early in your retirement. She has had more than a decade and therapy to deal with whatever happened. To get her story straight with her AP, to justify in her mind why she is ok. You just found out when her secret leaked. So this is new and raw for you. And yes it will take all the strength you have for a long time to save whatever "it" is. Hope your MC will be useful, but you have a long road ahead in retirement. And you can never fix by yourself what she broke. You not wanting "that" isn't sufficient unless she wants to save "it" as badly as you.

Of course you are tired. Anyone would be.


----------



## sideways

Glad you're still here.

Whatever you decide to do moving forward you're the one who has to live with the consequences of your decisions. 

I know this is hard but you can't change what you won't confront. Looks like you're willing to confront it. Good for you! 

I know you want to save your marriage but you can't do this by yourself. I would definitely follow through on a poly. In order for you to forgive you need to know what you're forgiving. Your wife's willingness to take it will also speak volumes. Not say she'll take it but actually take it.


----------



## jsmart

Even though what she did by allowing you to work besides a guy she had sex with behind your back is truly messed up, I don’t think many here were advising divorce. I see that you now have a strong marriage that you both value. It is possible to R and for the marriage to prosper but that should only be done if you really know the truth of what took her pace back then. 

Coworkers have affairs not ONS. It would be a good thing to talk to your wife’s friend’s stbx to really get as much info on what he was told. Also, does your wife have any proof on the topics she discussed during her counseling sessions. Was it guilt over betraying you or for assistance on getting over OM and reattaching to you? Have a complete timeline on how their hookup happened, including how they first started flirting, dates they had, etc. like I said throughout your thread, even if it was a full fledged affair, that included emotional feelings, doesn’t mean you can’t R. Just do it from a position of knowledge so you don’t come to a forum like this in 10 years emotionally torn apart because you learned that at the time that she had deep feelings for the OM.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

MrSamsonite said:


> I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you
> 
> The responses came fast and heavy. I only made it through a couple of pages before I had to quit. It was painful to read. I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it. But maybe I was in denial? I am thinking hard about this now. We will have some serious conversations with a therapist. Many of you say "divorce!". But I don't want that. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.
> 
> I have taken a lot of notes on your many posts here. I am going to post a long update on everything that happened. I only expected a cursory response from you all. Since you are "all in", I will be too. I finally finished reading all 9 pages of responses. Give me a day to process. At first, I thought you all were insane with the polygraph stuff, now I see where you are coming from. I've only hit on the barest details thinking they were enough. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow.
> 
> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.
> 
> I am so tired now though. Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


Glad you are still sticking around. Sometimes what you read here can be very difficult to digest. Sadly many have been through infidelity and stories of what wayward spouses are capable of is just so sad. I'm usually among those calling for divorce, but I also fully recognize that it is often easier said than done and not all circumstances are the same, so there is no one size fits all. It was well prior to my marriage, but I've been through an instance of infidelity. Due to the circumstances we stayed together and I couldn't be happier 35 years later. 

There have been other instances here like yours, where a spouse finds out about infidelity that occurred years ago. Many of those had infidelity that was so egregious that even all the apparent good years that had gone by were simply not enough to outweigh what the wayward spouse did. You have a situation that is somewhat different, specifically what appears to be an unattached ONS. That in my mind makes it possible, but and a big but, your wife and this guy had to have somewhat plotted this to occur while you were gone (that is my assumption) and your wife hid it for 12 year. Meaning she lied to you for 12 years. Odds are this wasn't out of remorse, it was out of fear. I wish you and your wife luck. Hopefully you can get some help here to move along whatever path you choose.


----------



## truststone

jsmart said:


> es knowing. That’s is truly F’d up of his wife.





jsmart said:


> Even though what she did by allowing you to work besides a guy she had sex with behind your back is truly messed up, I don’t think many here were advising divorce. I see that you now have a strong marriage that you both value. It is possible to R and for the marriage to prosper but that should only be done if you really know the truth of what took her pace back then.
> 
> Coworkers have affairs not ONS. It would be a good thing to talk to your wife’s friend’s stbx to really get as much info on what he was told. Also, does your wife have any proof on the topics she discussed during her counseling sessions. Was it guilt over betraying you or for assistance on getting over OM and reattaching to you? Have a complete timeline on how their hookup happened, including how they first started flirting, dates they had, etc. like I said throughout your thread, even if it was a full fledged affair, that included emotional feelings, doesn’t mean you can’t R. Just do it from a position of knowledge so you don’t come to a forum like this in 10 years emotionally torn apart because you learned that at the time that she had deep feelings for the OM.


excellent Please re read this post OP some very good advice !!!


----------



## Butforthegrace

Human circumstances are typically not binary. Rather, they are a complex mix of interweaving elements, some good and some bad. Keep in mind that both of these things can be true at the same time:

A. Your WW was selfish. She decided to cheat with your coworker because she desired sex with him enough to lie to you and to arrogate to herself the right to a secret, one-sided open marriage. She enjoyed the sex. She lied about it and concealed it from you because it was easy and convenient for her. She knew that would make you into the unwitting brunt of the AP's gloating, but she has remained willing, all of these years, to continue making that choice because it was most expedient for her.

B. Your WW has experienced profound regret and deep shame for the choices she made all those years ago. She sought counseling to fix what was messed up in her moral compass, and she heeded her counselor's (bad) advice because that's what patients do. She has invested herself "both feet in" for the past 10+ years into being a great wife to you. She has done all of this because she loves you and cherishes her marriage with you.

This dialectic is the core paradox of many "found out years later" threads. It's part of the unique **** sandwich created by these. A profound cognitive dissonance. I wish you peace and clarity as you try to sort out how this will impact your own decisions going forward.

At the very least, I would urge you to press for a thorough, highly detailed disclosure of the A between your WW and the AP. As others have said, she's had more than a decade to process it, whereas it's fresh with you. Some call this kind of detail disclosure "pain shopping", but I disagree. Your WW wove a cocoon of intimacy with the AP. She promised in her wedding vows to be intimate only with you. When it comes to the details and extend of the A, at the present time your WW is more intimate and honest with the AP than she is with you. As painful as it is to hear the details of the A, most BH's find the salutary benefit of restoring the raw, ugly, brutal intimacy outweighs the pain of hearing the dirty details. It mends a rift in the marital intimacy fabric. True healing begins with raw, unfiltered honesty.

That goes for you, too. Let your anger out. Don't bottle it up inside.

Keep in mind that honesty will likely be hard for your WW. Dishonesty with respect to the A has become so deeply ingrained into her quotidian existence that it is her normal. It will feel highly uncomfortable and abnormal to her to consider being honest with you about this. That's something she needs to overcome.


----------



## snerg

MrSamsonite said:


> I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. *I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it*. But maybe I was in denial?


Not trying to take a great big dookie on your marriage, so take this with a grain of salt.
She cheated.
You can't poison the marriage.
She *CHEATED*
Everything from the moment you found out is her burden to bear.

So you need to get off whatever horse you are on where you think anything you are doing/going to do will ruin the marriage.

Also, you mention that you are currently happy in your marriage.
If I might add, you are happy with the marriage you *THOUGHT *you had.
You have been living in a lie that you were unaware of for *12 YEARS*.

Let that sink in for a few days. 
She took away your ability to make a decision about your marriage, your life, your future for 12 years.
Did you cheat? NOPE
Did you lie for 12 years? NOPE
Did you lie about the people you work with for 12 years? NOPE
Did you take away your spouse's ability to choose? NOPE
This list can go on for pages.

You have to step back and look at your situation like this:
She had an affair
She had it with a coworker
That coworker also works with you
She remained in contact with the AP
She covered it up for 12 years.
She didn't admit it, you had to find out about it.
There is no way that you are getting the complete truth now. It's not statistically probable that she is giving you everything. Someone doesn't cover up an event of this magnitude for 12 years with lies and then just give up everything. That's not even a feasible concept. There is so much trickle truth going on and probably a heaping of gaslighting. You don't simply walk back 12 years of lies in a few therapy sessions and talks. This is mountains of crud to dig through just to see the mental gymnastics that had to occur to keep this lie going.


You need to recognize the deep levels of betrayal and disrespect going on here.



MrSamsonite said:


> I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. *He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.*


Statements like this rub my rhubarb the wrong way.
People always state the easy way is to divorce and throw away the marriage.
Tell that person to talk to anyone who has divorced and have them explain the logistics of divorcing and have them make that statement again.
Staying or divorcing is difficult.


----------



## re16

MrSamsonite said:


> I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you
> 
> The responses came fast and heavy. I only made it through a couple of pages before I had to quit. It was painful to read. I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it. But maybe I was in denial? I am thinking hard about this now. We will have some serious conversations with a therapist. Many of you say "divorce!". But I don't want that. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.
> 
> I have taken a lot of notes on your many posts here. I am going to post a long update on everything that happened. I only expected a cursory response from you all. Since you are "all in", I will be too. I finally finished reading all 9 pages of responses. Give me a day to process. At first, I thought you all were insane with the polygraph stuff, now I see where you are coming from. I've only hit on the barest details thinking they were enough. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow.
> 
> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.
> 
> I am so tired now though. Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


I think most of us that are here had a rough few days when we first joined and wanted advice. It is TAM attempting to pry your eyes open to the possibilities and probabilities of these types of situations.

More info always helps fine tune the advice.

The decision to stay in the marriage or not is yours and if you state such a desire, TAM will help with that, just with the cautious moves that will ensure it has a strong chance for success which means nothing can be swept under the rug.

You have a tough road in front of you, but we have your back.


----------



## loblawbobblog

I'll repeat that it's crucial you get the whole story now and not be satisfied with the first version your wife tells you out of eagerness to save the marriage. The sh!t sandwich of finding out years later you reconciled under false pretenses tastes even worse. I know this from experience. Good luck, man.


----------



## BruceBanner

MrSamsonite said:


> We are/were both air traffic controllers. This is a very high paying job. You have to understand, they have worked together since the incident for 12 years without me knowing. There is no relationship beyond that one night. That, I am certain of. I am not going to tell her to quit now. She is 3 years from retirement herself. He is leaving sooner. It would be financially ruinous to our family to do that now.
> 
> I know this man well. We worked together for years. He is a notch in his belt guy. He frankly wanted nothing to do with her once he was able to have sex with her. He and I were never friends but we worked together. I cannot accept that he feels he "got over on me" or is laughing in my face. It is the only thing that I still haven't accepted.
> 
> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it. Yes, she lied about it. If I knew at the time, I would have left her. I have a different perspective looking back. We have a good life, a good marriage. She made a huge mistake. Hating her now will not make my life better.
> 
> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know? If feels like closure for some reason. Like he no longer "owns" the space in my head.


You know him so well you didn't know he had an affair with your wife twelve years ago and is likely still having an affair. Blindly loving her now and forgiving her now will not make your life better either.


----------



## Asterix

MrSamsonite said:


> I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you


I'm speaking for myself here. When I was dealt the **** sandwich, I was all alone with no one to guide me. I was also younger, dumber and more naive. So, whenever I see people suffering through something similar, I do my best to help them out because at a minimum it helps a lot to know that you are not alone and there are people here who would want to help you through this.



MrSamsonite said:


> I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.


I find it sad when people try to convince others like this. Usually when someone tells a person to "man up" or "be the stronger man" it is usually to ask them to do something that's not in their best interests. I completely understand where you are coming from regarding saving your marriage. Your feelings about wanting to save your marriage are valid but they, by themselves do not define you.

Semantically speaking:
Guilt is what we feel for what we have done and
Shame is what we feel for what we have become or what we were.

Wanting to save your marriage does not change who you are as a person or show you in a negative light. But having a ONS and lying to you for so long says a lot about your wife as a person. As I mentioned before, she's only sorry because she was caught and had no intention of telling you whatsoever had it not been the ex-husband of her friend. I think, while you still worked, the AP and maybe even her could have been getting off of the power trip from knowing that he pulled a fast one on you. I don't know what answer you'll get if you ask her, because you now know that she can lie to you very well and you'd never know the difference.

The point is, there's nothing wrong in wanting to save the marriage and I urge you not to feel any shame about it. If anything, your wife needs to feel all the shame and guilt for dumping this whole lode of crap in your bed and made you sleep in it completely unawares. 

*By the way, the friend of her's who kept her secret for so long about her cheating, is most definitely NOT a friend of your marriage and she certainly do not have your best interests at heart. There are people walking around us in life with a smile on their faces. That does not mean that they are our best friends or want the best for us. It would be in your best interests to put some distance between you and that friend and if your wife cuts contact with this friend. This should be non-negotiable. I understand that the friend needs help and support during her divorce, but she does not deserve it and if your wife goes behind your back to help her, then you know for sure, which relationships are more important for your wife by the way she's prioritizing them.

I think she still needs to be the one to tell both your parents and kids about her ONS (while you are present) if she really wants to start making amends and if she's really feeling sorry. Her not doing that will tell you how much she values her own hide and self-image over your well being. *

This is of course really up to you, but You also do not owe it to her to lie for her to cover her cheating at this point.



Butforthegrace said:


> Keep in mind that honesty will likely be hard for your WW. Dishonesty with respect to the A has become so deeply ingrained into her quotidian existence that it is her normal. It will feel highly uncomfortable and abnormal to her to consider being honest with you about this. That's something she needs to overcome.


You mentioned that you are happy in the marriage. Let me ask you this: Which marriage are you happy in? Are you happy in the marriage that you thought you had in your mind? Or are you happy in the marriage that it actually is? This marriage is with a partner who has no compunction about lying to your face every single day? It's easy to be nice to you day in and day out for her and it is very difficult for her to be truthful towards you. So, she took the easy band-aid way out. Something for you to consider.

The real problem here is not the ONS (although, I'd bet my bottom dollar that it wasn't just a ONS). The problem here is that she lied to you for so long and let you hang around AP.


----------



## drencrom

MrSamsonite said:


> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.


Ok, just have to stop here real quick and say something. Your wife messes around, tells her friend...her friend keeps her secret which means she is no friend of you, but HE is the miserable bastard for giving you information your wife has been keeping from you? I'd be thanking him. Without him, you'd be in the dark about who your wife truly is. Ok, enough on that.



> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event.


Right....that you know of.



> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”.
> 
> I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.


Don't get me wrong. I understand the anger at the other man. But if you are going to treat your wife with kid gloves, then the OM shouldn't receive any more consequences than your wife did. SHE is the one that directly betrayed you. So if you are going to have all this love for her and she gets to basically skate, the OM should just be forgotten.

Now, if you have the same contempt for your wife as you do the OM, then by all means, contact him and let him have it.




> Am I being unreasonable?


Based on the light consequences your wife endured, I would say yes. Again, don't get me wrong. I'd be highly pissed at the OM as well. But not more than your wife.


----------



## drencrom

MrSamsonite said:


> I have forgiven my wife. She made a made a mistake and is owning it.


It wasn't a mistake. She did it because she wanted to. She made a conscious decision to gratify herself with another man. But she is your wife and since you are staying with her, you would have had to forgive her at some point. You don't have to forgive the OM, but he isn't the one that directly betrayed you. Yes, be pissed at him, but it shouldn't be more than you are at her.


----------



## drencrom

MrSamsonite said:


> Him...I cannot forgive. I knew what you would say about the threat. lol. But what is wrong with her telling him that I know?


Nothing wrong with that at all. What makes you think he doesn't already know?


----------



## drencrom

MrSamsonite said:


> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.


Very good. Letting him know you know is perfectly reasonable. The idea of the threats were not, but glad you decided to just let him know. Yes, would be interesting to see how he reacted.


----------



## jsmart

Texting the OM “ I know you F’d my wife” is weird. I would bet that he was told by your wife when you found out and was told that she confessed to a ONS, that way if you confronted him, their stories would sync up. He of course is not going to admit that they spoke and agreed on a story. He can be a douche but I’m sure he’s not looking to potentially get into an altercation with you. So admitting a ONS and apologizing is the fastest and easiest way to put this behind him. 

I would advise to question the friend’s stbx . He he has already stuck it to his wife so has no further incentive to not tell what he was told. Also, if your wife, allows it, you can find out what was discussed by your wife in her counseling sessions when it comes to the infidelity. Lastly, getting an accurate timeline that should be proved with a poly. A poly would cost about 5 to7 hundred dollars and allow for about 3 to 4 yes or no questions. Knowing that this was the only betrayal and that it really was a 1 time hookup would provide you a lot of relief. Of course learning that it was a full fledged physical affair that lasted for months like most of us believe, would be devastating but wouldn’t you rather know the truth than to live another 12 or more years of lies ?


----------



## re16

jsmart said:


> I would bet that he was told by your wife when you found out and was told that she confessed to a ONS, that way if you confronted him, their stories would sync up


This is an interesting point, and might be something to think about regarding poly (or fake poly)... has she discussed the affair with OM recently? Also, who else knows about the affair?

I would think OM as a belt notcher would have been subtly making his presence known with her even if the affair wasn't active anymore.... little ass grabs, complimenting her outfits etc.... OM has probably told others, likely without mentioning that fact to OP's wife.



jsmart said:


> Lastly, getting an accurate timeline that should be proved with a poly.


Agree that getting a timeline in writing of everything that happened is a good way to proceed, she should be told a poly will confirm the timeline before she starts working on it. It will likely reveal new information that she had conveniently "forgotten".


----------



## jsmart

re16 said:


> This is an interesting point, and might be something to think about regarding poly (or fake poly)... has she discussed the affair with OM recently? Also, who else knows about the affair?
> 
> I would think OM as a belt notcher would have been subtly making his presence known with her even if the affair wasn't active anymore.... little ass grabs, complimenting her outfits etc.... OM has probably told others, likely without mentioning that fact to OP's wife.
> 
> 
> Agree that getting a timeline in writing of everything that happened is a good way to proceed, she should be told a poly will confirm the timeline before she starts working on it. It will likely reveal new information that she had conveniently "forgotten".


The thread from @idkname “Wife had an affair 9 years ago”. Like the OP, he too thought he had the whole story but his gut was bugging him. TAM immediately poked holes in his wife’s story that made no sense. So he pushed and dug for more forcing his WW to admit more. What started as a supposedly sex only PA for a few weeks turned into a many months long deep emotional physical affair in which she admitted to being in love with OM and wanting to leave her husband. She said she ended it because she caught a STD and had a pregnancy scare and of course the OM was a player type. Never got clarification if that pregnancy scare was an abortion. She too was in counseling and was told not to confess. 

In the questioning, she admitted that OM continued to pursue her and go for kisses, hugs and feels long after it supposedly ended. Which is why many on TAM believed they were probably on and off for years, which is very common for affairs where APs continue working closely together. They too were working closely the whole 9 years. OP should definitely read that thread. It’s an eye opener.


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## truststone

i soo sorry this happened but ask yourself this 

1) WHO told you it was only a ONS?
- your wife who lied for 12 yrs so why are you believing the person who lied to you?

*2) Intimacy stolen from you over and over again !!*

who helped your wife get through counselling?
had she been honest with you and you stayed you both could of worked through it together which is what R is all about ,so that through the journey of healing you both find and develop deeper intimacy but that too was stolen from you and the question is why?

3) how many things in your marriage have you been robbed of because of this denial and selfishness not to include you in the process REMEMBER your her HUSBAND - and because of the marriage vows is the one and only person those intimate moments of healing must be shared with (talking about the healing process) - *YOU never got that chance* 

A good marriage is only defined by the level of transparency, trust , vulnerability to the person you say you love ..
The reward over time is deeper and deeper levels of intimacy through the seasons that life will bring as you grow together through the good and bad..thats what chisels away our selfishness as we learn to love our spouse with an unselfish heart governed and moved by TRUST - expressed through deeper revelations of love .. But again its built on TRUST not deception/lies -

You my friend (OP) did this that is why to you it was a good marriage. But in order to move on with R which is what you want can only occur with complete honesty anything short of that is a deception and *Now both parties* placing a priority on things that dont deserve it! Hence the *deception continues* and unfortunately you are now a willing participant. That is why we all encourage you to do things like poly, tell AP spouse , your kids family etc WHY?
1) you do your part to the best of your ability to *see the truth as it is *so you know what your forgiving and working through..
2) Usually forces the Cheater to come clean 
- this is where you see if they truly in my opinion if they want the marriage as bad as you do by their actions not by you directing them -Actions never lie

remember you are human you hurt , have feelings and trigger that you are now unaware of and how can she be there for you in R if the truth hasnt been exposed to all parties - what are you both then working on ? 

If She has truelly changed and was in fact remorsefu Now she could prove it because the new her would compel herself to do anything to heal your broken hear and rebuild Trust!!! But if she herself has not been complelty honest and you dont face it how can true R occur - Your right it cant !!! everything is then governed and propelled to protect a lie by continually lieing in R and is that going to last!!!!

For R you both have to be willing to work at it 100% which you are but is she? if she was then everything woud be on the table but it still isnt even after you have found out and confronted her.. its you doing the leg work , its you now doing all the heavy lifting telling her what to do blah blah . Remind me again who cheated who lied ??

The sad thing is you have to be that way for one simple reason 
-- your heart knows you cant Trust
- and that my friend is what is Broken and needs to* fixed if you want true lasting Reconciliation

Actions never lie *


----------



## truststone

jsmart said:


> The thread from @idkname “Wife had an affair 9 years ago”. Like the OP, he too thought he had the whole story but his gut was bugging him. TAM immediately poked holes in his wife’s story that made no sense. So he pushed and dug for more forcing his WW to admit more. What started as a supposedly sex only PA for a few weeks turned into a many months long deep emotional physical affair in which she admitted to being in love with OM and wanting to leave her husband. She said she ended it because she caught a STD and had a pregnancy scare and of course the OM was a player type. Never got clarification if that pregnancy scare was an abortion. She too was in counseling and was told not to confess.
> 
> In the questioning, she admitted that OM continued to pursue her and go for kisses, hugs and feels long after it supposedly ended. Which is why many on TAM believed they were probably on and off for years, which is very common for affairs where APs continue working closely together. They too were working closely the whole 9 years. OP should definitely read that thread. It’s an eye opener.


here is her post i had to copy and paste for you

Hi @Newgem 

I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard. 

So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses. 

For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?

So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!

Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way. 

So #2 begin to accept that the fact that your actions caused the death of your relationship with your spouse. 

Now, getting through just those two things is often more than many people can bear. In real life, people very rarely do recover and TRULY reconcile after infidelity because it takes two miracles: 1) the unfaithful person has to be VERY humble and look at themselves and examine some deep stuff that can be pretty painful, and 2) the faithful person has to be VERY patient and generous at a time when they are the wounded party! 

I will write more maybe later tonight, but I wanted to start at least writing and see if we couldn't strike up a dialogue.


----------



## OddOne

MrSamsonite said:


> I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.


He's probably just trying to be supportive. Or he actually believes that. But it doesn't matter what he or any of us believe about which is the braver vs. more cowardly choice between staying or leaving. What matters more is what you want and if you can live with and ultimately be happy with your choice.


----------



## MattMatt

OddOne said:


> He's probably just trying to be supportive. Or he actually believes that. But it doesn't matter what he or any of us believe about which is the braver vs. more cowardly choice between staying or leaving. What matters more is what you want and if you can live with and ultimately be happy with your choice.


It's fight or flight syndrome. Do you want to fight for your marriage or fly away from it?

Either option is valid, IMO.


----------



## drencrom

MrSamsonite said:


> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. *I will post that tomorrow*. He responded. I will post those both.


I'm wondering if things took a turn for the worst somehow. We haven't gotten this update over a week now.


----------



## ElOtro

MattMatt said:


> It's fight or flight syndrome. Do you want to fight for your marriage or fly away from it?
> Either option is valid, IMO.


I agree with you while I do not.
The fight or flight / hide are replies to danger.
Some marriages / relationships / partners may be sometimes the very source of it.
To identify which one is the case may validate one option goodness over the other(s), besides and IMO better than each one "inner" wishes and prefferences.
Just saying...


----------



## jsmart

It’s only been 2 days, since that post. I suspect that as he writes his updates, it’s not passing the smell test. We have hit him with a lot of the inconsistencies of what he was told. It is hard to accept that he possibly doesn’t have the whole truth. What he has endured is bad enough but if it was indeed a full fledged affair, like most of us believe, then it will force him to reevaluate his marriage and him feeling like he has to D if that if it was an affair. 

I have said that , he can still R if he has a wife who will remorsefully walk in truth with him. If she starts to get defensive or blame shifts, then he will have a big decision to make. I have read plenty of threads of BHs , who described their WW as being so loving and remorseful but when they pushed for more info based on feedback from TAM, they completely change.

I remember a thread of a guy who described his wife in such glowing terms but then found out that both of his kids where from an affair partner. She claimed to have done it because her husband‘s sperm count was too low, but the more he dug, the more that story didn’t hold water. His wife that was supposed to have been such a good wife, turned really mean and the more he explained their marriage, the more it was obvious that it was all in his head. She was fine with him leaving. There was no kindness from her and no regret, let alone remorse. He stopped posting because he didn’t want to face the truth. I’d bet he decided to stay after such a brutal betrayal. Now OP’s situation is not like that but some BHs would rather not face the truth if it means they have to D.


----------



## re16

Hopefully, this story isn't as bad as some of the others, but OP needs to test the waters of discovery, before he accepts the story at face value.

The whole being in physical proximity almost daily to someone you share this type of secret with says this was way more than one night.

OM and the misses likely joked about OP not knowing many times. It is tough to hear this kind of thing, but it is very likely true.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ElOtro said:


> I agree with you while I do not.
> The fight or flight / hide are replies to danger.
> Some marriages / relationships / partners may be sometimes the very source of it.
> To identify which one is the case may validate one option goodness over the other(s), besides and IMO better than each one "inner" wishes and prefferences.
> Just saying...


I would also add that I do not see divorce as a result of adultery as flight at all. It is the cold rejection of what as deemed sub-par and not worthy of your further care, love and attention.


----------



## MattMatt

ElOtro said:


> I agree with you while I do not.
> The fight or flight / hide are replies to danger.
> Some marriages / relationships / partners may be sometimes the very source of it.
> To identify which one is the case may validate one option goodness over the other(s), besides and IMO better than each one "inner" wishes and prefferences.
> Just saying...


Sometimes the body can't differentiate between a physical or a psychic threat.


----------



## ElOtro

MattMatt said:


> Sometimes the body can't differentiate between a physical or a psychic threat.


You are of course right.
The body may not be able.
The problem is that confronting a specific danger with some hope of safety may require to make such distinction.
Or fail whith independence of our best intentions.


----------



## olk

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?





MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


I hope you realize the whole truth.
1. Your wife cheated on you, betrayed you, it doesn't matter if it was yesterday or 20 years ago. 
2.She betrayed and remained without consequences, without punishment, and you are in hell now.
3.She lied to you for 12 years, and she would have lied even longer if it hadn't been for an accident.
4. There are high chances that she is hiding from you the extent of that affair and (or) other affairs.
5.You are putting yourself at great risk by allowing her to work next to her ex (?) a lover. The affair can be resumed at any time, if only it really ended. If you and your wife really want to reconcile, she should immediately quit her job. A family is worth any money lost.
6. There can be no real reconciliation and healing without the full truth. Everyone should know about the affair: relatives, friends, even children (if they are old enough to realize what happened). Rug-sweeping will only make the situation worse.
7. From now on and all the time while you are together, you have to be on the alert, you will have to constantly monitor her behavior so as not to miss the "red flags".
8.If you have children, it would be better to make paternity tests.
9.Your life has changed drastically after the discovery of an affair and will never be the same. Your marriage will never be the same. Your feelings for your wife will never be the same. Get ready for obsessive thoughts, flashbacks triggers abot her being in the hands of her lover.
10,11... You can add your own items here that only you know.
You can say that I exaggerate too much, but it would be wrong to turn a blind eye to the huge consequences that even the "smallest" affair contains. In addition, what happened makes you doubt the strength of moral foundations and the purity of the inner self of your unfaithful wife.
I apologize for my bluntness, but what I have written is the collective experience of all betrayed spouses. I sympathize with you from the bottom of my heart and wish that my fears and warnings do not come true.


----------



## David60525

MrSamsonite said:


> My wife and I worked together. While I was out of town 12 years ago, unbeknownst to me, she had a one-night-stand with a co-worker. At the time, she told her best friend what happened and then went for counseling due to guilty feelings. I have been unaware of the ONS (but do remember the counselling although I was unaware of the true nature) until very recently.
> 
> Scroll forward. Best friend is getting divorced. At some point in the past, she discussed my wife’s ONS with her son-to-be ex-husband. Ex decides that since he is a miserable bastard, everyone should be miserable and tells me about the cheating.
> 
> I confronted my wife and she admitted everything. We have been going to individual counselling and couple’s marriage counselling. This was a one-time event. My wife is extremely remorseful and other than this single event that happened 12 years ago has been all I could ask for. I have every belief that she has come completely clean. We are on a healing path.
> 
> Here is the issue: I am now retired from work. She still works there as does the other person. They work pretty much side-by-side as they always have. I have no trust issue with this. What I would like though is for her to inform him that I am aware of their history. At one point, I also worked side-by-side with this man. I cannot stomach the fact that he may think he “got away with this”. I am also considering asking her to give me his cell number (as verification that she did as I asked) and also so that I may pass a message….actually a threat. The threat is not necessary, but it would make me feel better. I could contain myself to a message if I had to…maybe.
> 
> I have not yet discussed this with my wife nor with our counsellors. Am I being unreasonable?


Discuss it with her, penalty is to quit or you confront Man. Keel on tight leash forever until
She is trustworthy. She will do it again.
Stay, go, it's your decision. Protect your assets.


----------



## blessed18

This situation sits bad with me! To live the past 12 years with the person you made vows with, started a family with and never knew she had an affair is one hurdle. But to know and forgive her but still harbor bad feelings to the guy you worked close with, makes me feel that that's how she was able to do it without you catching on and I can say I'm pretty sure it wasn't just a one night stand. There is a disconnect of placement of certain feelings. Just because only 1 time was mentioned, doesn't mean there weren't any more occasions. That was just the only one she told her friend! That man owes you nothing. Your wife made those vows to you and she broke those when she cheated. You sleep with her everyday and to have so much backing for her but feel like you have a point to prove with the guy is backwards. I don't mean to come off mean or nasty, I've gone through it so many times. I will never make excuses for my husband to make him look good. He needs to know what he did and it's not alright. I've dealt with it for over 10 years and believe me when I say that "Once a cheater, is always a cheater"!


----------



## truststone

the question is which one


----------



## truststone

also check what this lady wrote 

In my lifetime I was married young, and divorced in my mid-30's when my exH cheated and would not stop. I then married in my early 40's and cheated in the beginning of the marriage--we actually did the hard work and reconciled by building a completely, entirely new marriage, and he passed away when I was in my mid-50's. I'm now in my late 50's and on my third marriage. I tell you all this so that you know, I have some experience under my belt, and I've been a Wayward Wife. I know the foggy way that cheater's think, and I am here to tell you, it is NOT rational nor founded in reality. So allow me to translate your WS's texts for you, and then follow that up with REALITY. 

Let me start with this statement: my definition of cheating is *"Giving less than 100% of your affection, loyalty, and companionship to your spouse."* Now, some folks might say "Well I give some affection to my kids or my parents..." and my definition relates to the romantic kind of relationship a person has with a committed life partner. Yes, there are other kinds of love such as parent-child, owner-pet, or brother-sister...but we are focusing here on cheating in a committed life partner kind of relationship. When you commit, what you promise is that you will give ALL to your spouse and "forsake all others." So keep that definition of cheating in mind. 

Next, let's translate your WS's texts:

*WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"*
Translation - Sure I made a mistake, but you "made" me do it. Therefore, it's your fault, not mine. Let me shift the blame off me and onto you, and let me see if I can also make you second-guess yourself while I'm at it.
REALITY - Before committing adultery, you two were both responsible for your own contributions to the state of the marriage. I'm guessing that pre-adultery, it wasn't in great shape, and that you both were personally responsible for being part of the problem. So envision a house made of clay, and there were some cracks in the clay--maybe even serious cracks.

But ADULTERY is an nuclear bomb to the marriage, and SHE is the only one responsible for going nuclear. SHE did that and it is 100% hers. Her actions and her choices 100% are what put your marriage from "cracked clay" to obliterated dust. The natural consequence of committing adultery is losing the marriage, because the adulterer destroyed the marriage. So there is not "symptom of the issues." 

_ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"_

*WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"*
Translation - I wanted to be able to continue my emotional affair without guilt, and I didn't want there to be any consequences to my choice. You know...I want to have a boyfriend and the thrill of the chase, but not have to pay any price for it or feel any pain.
REALITY - EVERY choice has both a benefit and a cost. The choice to be married has the benefit of spouse providing for the needs spouse meets...and the cost of forsaking all others. The choice to cheat has the benefit of the thrill of "being wanted"...and the cost of losing the marriage. But she wants to have the benefit of cheating without losing the benefit of being married, and that is not how it works IN REALITY. In reality, space does not lead to deeper emotional connection...space does not lead to renewed intimacy...space does not lead to feeling less lonely. Space = Being Apart.

_ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"_

*WS - "No that would not have"
"I was not sleeping with him"
"I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"*
Translation - I've been at this for months and every day I have crossed the line just a little bit, a little more, a little more...day by day by day. Now I am a mile away from "crossing the line" but I've justified committing adultery. I realize I am making poor choices, but here's how I've justified doing wrong.
REALITY - Fidelity doesn't mean "How far can I go and not cross the line?" It means "How far away from the line can I stay?" She made a promise to give you 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship, and she has given some percentage to another. She gave some percentage of her affection to another man because she said she had feelings of affection for him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her loyalty to another man because has offered her allegiance and devotion to him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her companionship to another man because she spent time with him, talked with him, flirted with him, and did fun things with him, and those are YOURS not his.

In reality, who knows whether or not they would have actually, physically had sex? What has already happened is that they have been emotionally connected, they have spoken sexually, they have "sexted", they have had digital sexual encounters--she wanted it and he wanted it. Thus the ONLY thing they haven't done is actual, physical sex.

_ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"_

*WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"*
Translation - Let's get the focus off me and my wrong-doing, and deflect from my poor behavior. Let's try a DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender). I deny "sleeping" with another man--attack you for looking at porn--and now I am the victim and YOU are the offender!
REALITY - You aren't talking about what YOU have done or your bad actions. That's not to say you haven't done bad things, but this discussion is about HER and HER ADULTERY. Stay focused! In reality if she were remorseful for her infidelity, she would admit she was wrong and be calling it by name: adultery-infidelity-cheating. Instead she is nitpicking where it was "physical" or not..."sexual" or not. She's like Bill Clinton when he said: "I did not have sex with that woman!"

_ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe" _

*WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"*
Translation - This is more justifying adultery and DARVO. She is shifting the blame from herself to "both of you" or to you! She's thinking of adultery like "How far can I go before I cross the line?" She's also trying to sweep it under the rug and minimize what she's actually done.
REALITY - In reality, SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY. Even if she didn't have he guy's penis inserted, she gave her affection, loyalty and companionship to someone other than her spouse, and she broke her promise. Not you. In reality, this is not about the state of the marriage prior to her adultery...it is about the ADULTERY. Fantasy means that it's a dream that can't be attained and most likely won't become reality, and even if they couldn't afford to actually fly to be together, there was a very real possibility for this to become real if it weren't for the fact that you were in the way! She wanted it and the Other Man wanted it. So that's not just some generic fantasy about a XXX celebrity...it is just not the same. Comparing apples to oranges just deflects discussion from her adultery to you and second-guessing yourself (which is classic gaslighting).

*WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"*
Translation - I'll throw out a little threat here that will scare him into shutting up and doing it my way. He's too afraid to lose me to actually expect me to be faithful, so let's see if I can threaten him back into my control.
REALITY - You aren't "equally at fault here" and any person--religious counselor, parent or mentor, or even licensed therapist--who says you are, is not wise. Prior to adultery, yeah, there may have been behaviors you could have improved in order to be a better husband...just as there were behaviors she could have improved in order to be a better wife. But AFTER adultery? Nope, that is 100% ON HER. YOU have 0% responsibility for her choice to break her vows, live a life of deception, and destroy the marriage by dropping an atom bomb on it. You also have 0% responsibility to make the attempt to rebuild it. That's because the natural consequence of committing adultery is killing the marriage. Once she has acted in a way that results in death, you are within your right to just say "That is a deal-breaker for me and I choose to not attempt to recover at all. I choose to be done and will not even try." HER choice to COMMIT ADULTERY killed it--not your choice to not rebuild.


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## truststone

this too as it applies to what you maybe going through anther excellent post from her



May I respectfully recommend that you clarify for yourself in your head the distinction between "making a decision" and "what you want"? Here's why:

What you WANT is for your wife to be the woman you thought she was!
What you WANT is to have things back the way (you thought) they were!
What you WANT is for your wife to "see the light" and admit she was wrong!
What you WANT is for your family to be whole and happy, like you thought it was!
What you WANT is for your wife to love you again!!!!!

However, that is not reality, and you need to make your decision based on reality. Remember the image I showed you about Rugsweeping vs. Reconciliation? I showed you that because it is so painful to actually face what happened, that many, many people prefer to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. They'll call it "a fresh start" or "forgiving" and what is REALLY IS...is fear of looking at the behavior that set all this damage in motion.

It is hard and scary to look at a body that is beaten and bloody and realize that your actions did that to someone. It is hard to look at the person in the mirror and if you did things that caused harm, to admit it humbly and stay on the long-term path of acting in a new way. It is hard to consider the way you perceive things and the way you think of things and realize that you even need to change HOW YOU THINK in order to be a new person. And yet, that is exactly what is REQUIRED (yes...*required*) in order to truly reconcile after adultery. Don't call it "cheating" or even "infidelity" because those words are too nice. They're euphamisms. We are dealing with ADULTERY so call it that. If you can't even say it, how are you going to recover from it?

So don't think about what you want... because you want this to all go away and you want it to have never happened! Instead think about reality. It DID happen. It honestly WAS adultery. Let go of the illusion of what you thought you had and what you wished you had, and start to come to grips with what you really do have in reality. Do you love yourself enough to say "I can no longer give myself to a person who would commit adultery on me"? Or do you value keeping your family together more than keeping your own mental health? 

THAT is ultimately the question. What do you value?

P.S. Edited to add that I was a person who committed adultery once, and I chose to be brave and look at my own self and change, even though I was afraid. I'm not advocating divorce, but I am advocating either HEALTHY recovery based on reality and both parties fully facing what has occurred...or health divorce based on reality and facing what truly occurred. Make sense?


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## Butforthegrace

truststone said:


> this too as it applies to what you maybe going through anther excellent post from her
> 
> 
> 
> May I respectfully recommend that you clarify for yourself in your head the distinction between "making a decision" and "what you want"? Here's why:
> 
> What you WANT is for your wife to be the woman you thought she was!
> What you WANT is to have things back the way (you thought) they were!
> What you WANT is for your wife to "see the light" and admit she was wrong!
> What you WANT is for your family to be whole and happy, like you thought it was!
> What you WANT is for your wife to love you again!!!!!
> 
> However, that is not reality, and you need to make your decision based on reality. Remember the image I showed you about Rugsweeping vs. Reconciliation? I showed you that because it is so painful to actually face what happened, that many, many people prefer to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. They'll call it "a fresh start" or "forgiving" and what is REALLY IS...is fear of looking at the behavior that set all this damage in motion.
> 
> It is hard and scary to look at a body that is beaten and bloody and realize that your actions did that to someone. It is hard to look at the person in the mirror and if you did things that caused harm, to admit it humbly and stay on the long-term path of acting in a new way. It is hard to consider the way you perceive things and the way you think of things and realize that you even need to change HOW YOU THINK in order to be a new person. And yet, that is exactly what is REQUIRED (yes...*required*) in order to truly reconcile after adultery. Don't call it "cheating" or even "infidelity" because those words are too nice. They're euphamisms. We are dealing with ADULTERY so call it that. If you can't even say it, how are you going to recover from it?
> 
> So don't think about what you want... because you want this to all go away and you want it to have never happened! Instead think about reality. It DID happen. It honestly WAS adultery. Let go of the illusion of what you thought you had and what you wished you had, and start to come to grips with what you really do have in reality. Do you love yourself enough to say "I can no longer give myself to a person who would commit adultery on me"? Or do you value keeping your family together more than keeping your own mental health?
> 
> THAT is ultimately the question. What do you value?
> 
> P.S. Edited to add that I was a person who committed adultery once, and I chose to be brave and look at my own self and change, even though I was afraid. I'm not advocating divorce, but I am advocating either HEALTHY recovery based on reality and both parties fully facing what has occurred...or health divorce based on reality and facing what truly occurred. Make sense?


I wonder if some of those recent posts might have been intended for a different thread?


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## Txquail

Lets be honest. The OM works with her side by side. I'll be the first to say, they've been having sex a lot. Lets be honest, when you date someone and YOU stop having sex with that person or you break up, you'll be in an awkward position. They would not like to work with each other.

If she lied to you for 12 years, she obviously can lie to her friend and say it just happened once. (I don't believe it at all). If she was anyway remorseful, for 12 years, she would have been seeking employment elsewhere. She did not, she chose to go see the OM everyday and she's been enjoying it.

IF you want to test her to see if she has any regret, tell her, lets go see the OM's wife and YOU TELL HER IN PERSON what you did. If she does not want to do this, she is PROTECTING THE OM OVER YOUR FEELINGS. She'd rather lie to you for 12 years than tell his spouse what they did.


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## jsmart

Hey @MrSamsonite , how are you holding up? Have you had any further interaction with the OM? Did your wife tell you if she and OM discussed your text? I know it can be overwhelming to read so many posters telling you that this being a ONS is very unlikely. You feel forced to take more actions to defend your honor, but since you’re not ready to risk your marriage, you avoid posting.

Well, Like I said throughout your thread, even it turns out she did indeed have a full fledged affair for months, it doesn’t mean that what you have built over the years is not salvageable. We are just suggesting that if you go in that route, you do it from a position of strength with full knowledge of what you’re forgiving. Spending the ladder part of your life with a cloud of doubt is not something you will be able to muscle through and still be happy and at peace.


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## truststone

Butforthegrace said:


> I wonder if some of those recent posts might have been intended for a different thread?


it was to give hi msome insight as it relates to all who have been cheated on


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## Butforthegrace

Mr. Samsonite, are you with us?


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## jonty30

@MrSamsonite 

I do hope things are ok.
We hope for an update, but we also respect your privacy on the issue.


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## syhoybenden

He seems to be orbiting his thread in a holding pattern.


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## Evinrude58

Just wanted to add…… she said it was a ONS, and she’s a liar. Was it a one night stand? The chances of that are really really low.

OP your friend that said it takes a stronger man to stay is wrong. A strong, confident man knows he is capable of finding another woman who is hopefully faithful. He doesn’t fear losing a woman who places his value lower than acceptable.

what is his definition of a strong man? One who lets his wife have sex with other men with no consequences, and chokes down the emotions and grins and bears it? 
That’s weakness, not strength.

You’re happy in your marriage the way it is now other than the knowledge that your wife doesn’t value you, nearly as much as she values herself. My suggestion is if you want to stay married, get it all out and give her the chance to work toward making things right with you. And stop accepting her one night stand lie. Is your wife so terrible in bed that old boy would only want one night of her? Not likely. Workplace affair……

I’d give her a surprise visit to the polygrapher and get at least a little more truth.
Affairs are like lays potato chips, few people just try one.


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## Rob_1

syhoybenden said:


> He seems to be orbiting his thread in a holding pattern.


What would you expect?

OP is not really doing anything, so that's that. He's happy in his marriage. He forgave her, he doesn't want to poison the relationship. OP thinks that the coworker "go one over him", but doesn't realize that it was the wife the one that "got one over him". So, in other words, what's for him to update?


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## re16

Hopefully he is considering the possibilities we are posing.

There is a very high likelihood he doesn't have the truth. Sometimes it takes a little a time to wrap one's mind around that and switch into the fact finding mode.


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## Rob_1

re16 said:


> Hopefully he is considering the possibilities we are posing.
> 
> There is a very high likelihood he doesn't have the truth. Sometimes it takes a little a time to wrap one's mind around that and switch into the fact finding mode.


Yes, it certainly can be that, but I think that even if he finds out that there was more to it, at this stage he'll just let it pass after stewing some... and back to his now happy marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY

Rob_1 said:


> What would you expect?
> 
> OP is not really doing anything, so that's that. He's happy in his marriage. He forgave her, he doesn't want to poison the relationship. OP thinks that the coworker "go one over him", but doesn't realize that it was the wife the one that "got one over him". So, in other words, what's for him to update?


I have a suspicion that he has been reconsidering forgiveness after seeing what has been said here and the update wouldn't be a positive one. I also wonder if what he learned here has resulted in some new questions for his wife that I bet she doesn't have good answers for. The odds that his wife and this guy had a ONS then continued to worked together for 12 years is just so remote. I'm betting there was a lot more to the story.


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## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> The odds that his wife and this guy had a ONS then continued to worked together for 12 years is just so remote. I'm betting there was a lot more to the story.


But of course. It would be extremely rare but possible a ONS. My bet is there was more to it.


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## Evinrude58

Classic cheater trickle truth flow chart when caught:

It was never physical

We just kissed

I gave him a bj

It was just a one night stand

it was just sex

I never orgasmed, he was lousy in bed

he was never the man you were 

then if they ever lose it and give the truth:

we were madly in lurve, we screwed like rabbits every chance we got, every empty room in the office got abused. He was hung like a mule and I orgasmed so hard I almost passed out every time.

Sorry OP. You e got the proverbial tip of the iceberg.


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## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have a suspension that he has been reconsidering forgiveness after seeing what has been said here and the update wouldn't be a positive one. I also wonder if what he learned here has resulted in some new questions for his wife that I bet she doesn't have good answers for. The odds that his wife and this guy had a ONS then continued to worked together for 12 years is just so remote. I'm betting there was a lot more to the story.


It is hard for OP to accept what he is reading. His marriage has been really good, and he is reticent to believe anything that would put that at risk but after reading a nearly unanimous TAM tell him that basically coworkers don’t have ONS; they have affairs, it’s making him question everything. I’m sure his gut has to be telling him that what we’re saying makes more sense.

A ONS is something that work colleagues that don’t work that closely do when they go on a work trip together: like a convention. But if they work closely, they continue to hookup. Even if the sex is mediocre; they BOTH want it because of the high of sneaking around.

On the small chance that it was a one time hookup, it was definitely planned, which is not what a ONS is. OP is expected to believe that his wife and coworker just happened to hookup weekend that he left town? Come on, they were flirting for who knows how long. This very likely led to them kissing when they went out for lunch or after work. When OP went out of town, they had their chance.

This supposedly happened 12 years ago. I wonder does OP remember how his marriage was back then. He’s remembering how it’s been for the past few years. Was she cold, distant, and sexually cutting him off back then? She may have committed to be the best wife due to guilt and remorse after it was over.

She went to counseling to deal with issues related to this betrayal. Was she dealing with guilt and possibly shame ? Was she hurt from a possible breakup with OM?


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## jsmart

Hey @MrSamsonite , how are things going? Have you had any further conversations with your wife’s ex OM? Have you asked your wife for further details based on what we have posted here. 

I know it’s hard to read a near unanimous belief that more took place but TAM has helped countless betrayed spouses dig for the truth based on the feed back we provided. There are so many threads of BHs who thought they had the truth to find that there was much more than they thought. Many of these threads, the BHs was like you, going into defensive mode but they couldn’t deny the holes in their WW’s story , so they pushed back with what they learned here. Finding out there was more doesn’t preclude having a reconciliation but at least you’ll be doing it knowing the full truth.


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## bygone

I think he may have started therapy because he wanted to close this issue.

If he messes up 12 years, there may be others in the closet, and it's unclear whether his wife will try to fix it with him.

It's easier to move on with your life without telling you that you found out about the relationship.

Considering the financial problems that the possibility of divorce will bring

that would be a difficult decision.


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## jsmart

Right now there’s a thread elsewhere that had a BH who’s wife confessed to having had sex once wearing protection with a guy who she shared a hobby with. Everyone advised him that it is very likely that there was more to the story. He insisted that the collective wisdom was wrong but reluctantly asked about a poly. He got an ok but they’re not accurate. Everyone said that is her laying the groundwork for a reason for a failure. He pushed further and lo and behold. The affair starts 3 years ago and involved more sex. She even started the hobby to chase after the OM. Now he’s posting less often. I don’t think he wants to face the reality of his situation.

I say all of the above to make the point that it is VERY unlikely that OP has the truth and I suspect that he doesn’t want to push and come face to face with the true nature of the betrayal. We get that often. TAM is for those ready to delve deep for the truth and a plan of action. Some prefer to believe a liar so they don’t have to actions that are difficult.


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## Sfort

jsmart said:


> I don’t think he wants to face the reality of his situation.


Who would? By the way, which thread is it?


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## bygone

I think cheaters know the nature of their partner.

use, control, manipulate.


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## gr8ful1

Sfort said:


> Who would? By the way, which thread is it?


It’s this one at SI:









SurvivingInfidelity.com - General Forum


Surviving infidelity support forums for those affected by infidelity and cheating




survivinginfidelity.com


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## Killi

There are ones that want supprt and advice and others that want magical solutions to save marriages that without actually addressing core issues. The second type either start seeing reality or in the vast majority of cases prefer to close their eyes and run away from reality.


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## SunCMars

She'sStillGotIt said:


> It had to be done.





Annonymous Joe said:


> I like that you did the math on the days. Kudos to you.


Those thousands of days, those thousands of unseen, unknown, small cuts.

I belay small, more, a 1/7 of a lifetime of injury.


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## masterofmasters

is the OP still here? there has been less than a handful of posts from him and 12 pages of members telling him that there's very likely been at least an on and off affair that's been going on for all these years.

i don't believe that it was a ONS, either. especially since they work closely together.


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## BoSlander

If it was a co worker there is a very good chance the affair has been going on all this time. I’ve read many infidelity cases and it seems as though, in the case where co workers are involved, the spouse is able to create kind of a “second marriage” that exists apart from the real marriage. These “work marriages” can go on forever, and they seem to exist primarily to act as some sort of emotional/sexual escape valve.

The viciousness and duplicity needed to carry this out is akin to those folks that have husbands/wives in different states/countries.


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## MattMatt

@MrSamsonite how are things at the moment?


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## Jimi007

I was hoping he would come back....Ĺast I read he had confronted the AP...? 
Never heard the conclusion 
@MrSamsonite


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## Decorum

MrSamsonite said:


> I am still here. I am humbly touched by your responses. Some of you took a lot of time out of your lives and put a lot of effort into trying to help me in my situation. I have to tell you how much I appreciate your effort to help me. Some of you hit the mark, some missed a bit, but everyone made me think. I want to thank you
> 
> The responses came fast and heavy. I only made it through a couple of pages before I had to quit. It was painful to read. I did not think I was in denial. I have to be careful. I know it is hard for you to understand. I am currently happy in my marriage. I do not want to poison it. But maybe I was in denial? I am thinking hard about this now. We will have some serious conversations with a therapist. Many of you say "divorce!". But I don't want that. No, I am not a beta or whatever you want to call me. I told my friend that i am ashamed that I want to save my marriage after this. He said it takes a stronger man to try and save it.
> 
> I have taken a lot of notes on your many posts here. I am going to post a long update on everything that happened. I only expected a cursory response from you all. Since you are "all in", I will be too. I finally finished reading all 9 pages of responses. Give me a day to process. At first, I thought you all were insane with the polygraph stuff, now I see where you are coming from. I've only hit on the barest details thinking they were enough. I'll fill in the blanks tomorrow.
> 
> BTW...I did text the co-worker. I kept in non-confrontational and as unemotional as I was able. I will post that tomorrow. He responded. I will post those both.
> 
> I am so tired now though. Thank you again for caring enough to respond. I cannot thank you enough.


Well what ever happened when you texted the co-worker?


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## redHairs

MrSamsonite said:


> Am I being unreasonable?


Your feelings are understandable, but please do not do any threats. What is normal, from my perspective, ask your wife to let your former friend know that you're already know is normal.
But because there are 12 pages in this thread, and it were created half of year ago, probably everything already happened. Please point me to most interesting moments in this thread.


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## Tested_by_stress

redHairs said:


> Your feelings are understandable, but please do not do any threats. What is normal, from my perspective, ask your wife to let your former friend know that you're already know is normal.
> But because there are 12 pages in this thread, and it were *created half of a year ago*, probably everything already happened. Please point me to most interesting moments in this thread.


The thread was created a year ago.


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## redHairs

Tested_by_stress said:


> The thread was created a year ago.


Ah yes, you're right. Thx for fixing me. But what is going on here? Anybody has a tl;dr?


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## UAArchangel

Jimi007 said:


> I was hoping he would come back....Ĺast I read he had confronted the AP...?
> Never heard the conclusion
> @MrSamsonite


It might be hard giving an update from a jail cell.


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## UAArchangel

redHairs said:


> Ah yes, you're right. Thx for fixing me. But what is going on here? Anybody has a tl;dr?


Zombie threads pop up from time to time. I think we all participate in one eventually without realizing it


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## redHairs

UAArchangel said:


> It might be hard giving an update from a jail cell.


what a dark humour! I hope, op is ok, as well as his ex-friend.


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## Jimi007

I learned a lot from this thread... I wish he would have concluded it. Especially all of the ( choices ) his wife made .


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## Tested_by_stress

redHairs said:


> Ah yes, you're right. Thx for fixing me. But what is going on here? Anybody has a tl;dr?


Actually,it was half a year. I thought it said January but it is actually June. Time to move up to a stronger reading glass strength.


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## Jakobs

@MrSamsonite* "*_*I confronted my wife and she admitted everything*_."

Nope. Not a chance. You were probably told something between 15 and 65%. The remainder would be the stuff you would divorce her for immediately if she were to tell you.

"_*This was a one-time event*_." 

And, of course, you believed her? Her friend knew. Heck, they probably went out together looking for guys.

No MrSamsonite, there were probably multiple cheating events.


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## ElOtro

redHairs said:


> what a dark humour! I hope, op is ok, as well as his ex-friend.


I also hope that OP is Ok.
But my good wishes don´t include his ex "friend"


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