# Marriage On a Steady Decline in U.S.



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Interesting...



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-28/why-you-re-being-invited-to-fewer-weddings


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

I believe that!! If I ever divorce, I will NOT get married again!! I would rather be in a long-term relationship-- having my own place.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

I am single and divorced, but my married days were the happiest of my life before my ex had her affairs. I won't let her decisions sour me on the beautiful Sacrament of marriage. I hope to get my marriage annulled by the Church and marry again one day. Hopefully, I've learned some valuable lessons from the mistakes I made, and I aspire to apply those lessons next time around. I want share the rest of my life with a good lady. 

I love being married, but it does require a mindset that invites compromise, hard work, and sacrifice.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

I am on my third marriage and it's not something I'm too proud of. While I love my husband and wish I'd met him 10 years ago, if my first marriage had worked out he and I wouldn't even know each other. My first husband was the greatest...except he didn't want to work. For a bit I worked 24/7 to keep us afloat but there came a point where I couldn't anymore and ended our marriage. My second husband was a mistake and one I saw beforehand and didn't pay attention to. 

I have a lot of issues from my first two marriages and previous relationships that effect my marriage now, but I'm working on them. Mainly trust issues and control issues. But my husband is sticking by me and working it out. After this though, I will never marry again if it doesn't work out.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think marriages should be something that automatically expire unless renewed.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

marriage is a poor bet statistically.

in todays society I see no value in it!


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Rick Blaine said:


> I am single and divorced, but my married days were the happiest of my life before my ex had her affairs. I won't let her decisions sour me on the beautiful Sacrament of marriage. I hope to get my marriage annulled by the Church and marry again one day. Hopefully, I've learned some valuable lessons from the mistakes I made, and I aspire to apply those lessons next time around. I want share the rest of my life with a good lady.
> 
> I love being married, but it does require a mindset that invites compromise, hard work, and sacrifice.


I loved reading what you wrote here, it is true that marriage seems to be going out of business, but let me tell everyone who is interested, if you behave in a marriage and love your husband/wife then their is no better place to spend your life, but it takes work and compromise but the fringe benefits more than make up for it. Let's look at the other options available to a loving couple who don't want to get married, living together is like a marriage but no commitment, we have a a civil partnership in the UK, i don't really know what this is to be honest, but marriage is the best, vows of commitment exchanged in front of family and friends is like no other way of joining two people who love and care for each other, life long commitment is rare in this modern world, i will marry again after spending 28 years married to the wrong woman who couldn't keep a promise if her life depended on it. I will just choose better next time. 


Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I think marriages should be something that automatically expire unless renewed.


Yep. A statute of limitations, as any contract has. I want to see contractual marriages with set expiration dates, where the State has very little involvement.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

KevinZX said:


> I loved reading what you wrote here, it is true that marriage seems to be going out of business, but let me tell everyone who is interested, if you behave in a marriage and love your husband/wife then their is no better place to spend your life, but it takes work and compromise but the fringe benefits more than make up for it. Let's look at the other options available to a loving couple who don't want to get married, living together is like a marriage but no commitment, we have a a civil partnership in the UK, i don't really know what this is to be honest, but marriage is the best, vows of commitment exchanged in front of family and friends is like no other way of joining two people who love and care for each other, life long commitment is rare in this modern world, i will marry again after spending 28 years married to the wrong woman who couldn't keep a promise if her life depended on it. I will just choose better next time.
> 
> 
> Love and Peace always
> ...


Legal domestic partnership, with rights of survivorship, is recognized in 32 U.S. states.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Sounds a bit cold to me, does this mean it is easier to call it a day if someone in the partnership decides to call it a day.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Akfranklin2014 said:


> I am on my third marriage and it's not something I'm too proud of. While I love my husband and wish I'd met him 10 years ago, if my first marriage had worked out he and I wouldn't even know each other. My first husband was the greatest...except he didn't want to work. For a bit I worked 24/7 to keep us afloat but there came a point where I couldn't anymore and ended our marriage. My second husband was a mistake and one I saw beforehand and didn't pay attention to.
> 
> I have a lot of issues from my first two marriages and previous relationships that effect my marriage now, but I'm working on them. Mainly trust issues and control issues. But my husband is sticking by me and working it out. After this though, I will never marry again if it doesn't work out.
> 
> ...


Call me dumb but i wouldn't want to be in a relationship where i could just walk away and their was no consequences, the effort of divorce from a marriage is surely the hurdle that keeps making you work hard on in the marriage, maybe not everybody shares my views, that is fine, but marriage is still the best if both partners work hard and make it work.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX:grin2:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sure, if it's easier to dissolve the relationship more people will do it. Those people that shouldn't have gotten into it in the first place.

I see FAR too many people stay in MISERABLE relationships because they think they'll be taken to the cleaners in a divorce, or they won't see enough of their kids, or they've become financially reliant on their spouse. If people going into it KNOW it will expire and they're on their OWN when it does, the whole dynamic would change completely and maybe - just MAYBE - for the better.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

KevinZX said:


> Sounds a bit cold to me, does this mean it is easier to call it a day if someone in the partnership decides to call it a day.


Agreed. If a term marriage is at its end and up for renewal,and one wants to continue while the other doesn't, I don't see how the one left behind is any less hurt than if his/her partner was walked out on a traditional marriage. If anything, this only increases the ease of inflicting pain on your partner. Knowing a date with this potential is coming won't lessen the shock in many cases and likely wouldn't lessen the pain in any. Hardly seems an improvement.

I remain a fan of "to death do us part"


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

KevinZX said:


> Call me dumb but i wouldn't want to be in a relationship where i could just walk away and their was no consequences, the effort of divorce from a marriage is surely the hurdle that keeps making you work hard on in the marriage, maybe not everybody shares my views, that is fine, but marriage is still the best if both partners work hard and make it work.
> 
> Love and Peace always
> 
> KevinZX:grin2:


Or just get the State out of the marriage business all together. Leave the hurdles to the religions.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Agreed. If a term marriage is at its end and up for renewal,and one wants to continue while the other doesn't, I don't see how the one left behind is any less hurt than if his/her partner was walked out on a traditional marriage. If anything, this only increases the ease of inflicting pain on your partner. Knowing a date with this potential is coming won't lessen the shock in many cases and likely wouldn't lessen the pain in any. Hardly seems an improvement.
> 
> I remain a fan of "to death do us part"


People are WAY too dependent on others for their happiness. If one wants to continue and the other doesn't well, too bad so sad. Get over it - you knew it was coming. Right now no one knows it's coming. Well ALMOST no one. Usually.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> People are WAY too dependent on others for their happiness. If one wants to continue and the other doesn't well, too bad so sad. Get over it - you knew it was coming. Right now no one knows it's coming. Well ALMOST no one. Usually.


You may or may not know it's coming. As the renewal date approaches, one may think everything's hunky dory while the other is just waiting for the chance to bolt. The one looking to bolt need not even let his/her partner know anything is amiss as the scheduled legal termination will take care of that for him/her. This may actually increase the opportunity for one to be blindsided. I don't see this "curing" anybody of their reliance on another for happiness.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You may or may not know it's coming. As the renewal date approaches, one may think everything's hunky dory while the other is just waiting for the chance to bolt. The one looking to bolt need not even let his/her partner know anything is amiss as the scheduled legal termination will take care of that for him/her. This may actually increase the opportunity for one to be blindsided. I don't see this "curing" anybody of their reliance on another for happiness.


When you go on a trip, there's a destination. You know when it's going to end. You can't assume it will continue just because you WANT it to continue - you have to assume it will be over.

People would save themselves a lot of heartache if marriages were set up the same way. That's all I'm saying.

Like everything else, it wouldn't work for every single person. It also requires a reset of the way we think about marriage.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rick Blaine said:


> I am single and divorced, but my married days were the happiest of my life before my ex had her affairs. I won't let her decisions sour me on the beautiful Sacrament of marriage. I hope to get my marriage annulled by the Church and marry again one day. Hopefully, I've learned some valuable lessons from the mistakes I made, and I aspire to apply those lessons next time around. I want share the rest of my life with a good lady.
> 
> I love being married, but it does require a mindset that invites compromise, hard work, and sacrifice.


This is a beautiful post.  I recently got married and many people were happy for us, but many ''warned'' us. I read these articles that suggest marriage is on the decline, but I'm invited to four weddings next year, so...lol 

I hope you find that good lady and have another chance at marriage.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> People are WAY too dependent on others for their happiness. If one wants to continue and the other doesn't well, too bad so sad. Get over it - you knew it was coming. Right now no one knows it's coming. Well ALMOST no one. Usually.


Get over it? No one is making anyone get married. But if you decide to do it then honor your freaking vows and don't be fraud!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rick Blaine said:


> Get over it? No one is making anyone get married. But if you decide to do it then honor your freaking vows and don't be fraud!


Sigh. That's my whole point. You took what I said out of context - I was talking about making marriages contracts with finite terms and NOT 'till death do us part'. If the end of the term comes and someone doesn't want it to end - well, that's just the way it would be. Not much you could do about it. IF marriages were only 5 or 10 years long and then they just ended.

Like I also said - people would have to stop thinking about marriage the way we do today. Obviously it isn't an easy thing to do


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

KevinZX said:


> Sounds a bit cold to me, does this mean it is easier to call it a day if someone in the partnership decides to call it a day.


If both parties want to continue the marriage they would have to file a contract extension within a statutory number of days prior to the date of expiration and a judge would have to sign off on it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> When you go on a trip, there's a destination. You know when it's going to end. You can't assume it will continue just because you WANT it to continue - you have to assume it will be over.
> 
> People would save themselves a lot of heartache if marriages were set up the same way. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Like everything else, it wouldn't work for every single person. It also requires a reset of the way we think about marriage.


That's what we call a false analogy, for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is that a trip doesn't carry anywhere near the same emotional involvement as an intimate union.

I see the benefits, but for every problem solved a new one arises to take its place. In addition to those previously noted, here's the real biggie--knowing there's a finite end date will be a natural disincentive for people to truly bond at the deepest possible level. Also, for those still willing, some bonds take many years to fully develop. I submit that people who submit to such an arrangement would be selling themselves short of the fullest level of human connection possible. How much effort can you put into your relationship when you're always preparing for what lies beyond?

Oh yeah, and then theres the kids...
We know getting a new mommy or daddy every few years is not good. And even before the new member of household arrives, the mommy or daddy they live with will be putting effort into shopping for that new partner; effort that should go into the child rearing.


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## Akfranklin2014 (May 9, 2017)

I would never enter a marriage if I knew it was going to end in 10 or 15 years. Although I've been married three times, I want a marriage that last the rest of my life. A marriage with a set expiration date would just make me feel like I wasted my time knowing it would end. You go into a marriage believing it will last the rest of your life. Things happen that don't make this the case and thus divorce happens. 

People just need to stop being cowards and tell their partner they want out rather than cheating. I would have preferred being told "this just isn't working for me" rather than being cheated on. And I say people because both women and men cheat. 

Divorce isn't just about cheating though. Now people get divorced because they're too lazy to work it out. With both of my previous marriages I did everything I knew possible to try to save them before I said "I'm done." Marriage isn't for those who rely on other people to fix their problems or those who don't want to try or work hard. Marriage isn't for everyone and some people just haven't realized it. 


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Getting married or becoming a parent probably needs a screening process. 

I was one of those growing up and all through my 20s abhorred the thought of marriage. It was a plague in my mind. Maybe I just saw what my parents had and I was having too much fun single. Well, I've been married 23 years now and don't regret it. But, that's me. I don't think marriage is for everyone and neither is parenthood. 

Maybe people are just doing a better job of self screening. 


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Akfranklin2014 said:


> I would never enter a marriage if I knew it was going to end in 10 or 15 years. Although I've been married three times, I want a marriage that last the rest of my life. A marriage with a set expiration date would just make me feel like I wasted my time knowing it would end. You go into a marriage believing it will last the rest of your life. Things happen that don't make this the case and thus divorce happens.
> 
> People just need to stop being cowards and tell their partner they want out rather than cheating. I would have preferred being told "this just isn't working for me" rather than being cheated on. And I say people because both women and men cheat.
> 
> ...


I don't feel it's wasting time, I would view it in a different light. If it has a potential expiration date I'd enjoy the time to the fullest. One of the downfalls of many marriages is that during the years they devote too much time to work etc, neglect the marriage even if unintended because in the back of their minds they have time to make it up since your marrying for life. Maybe knowing you've got a potential expiration date looming more people would actually commit to keeping the marriage fresh and fulfilling instead of drifting apart. 

Divorce is a brutal ordeal, it's bad enough being blindsided if someone wants out but to then spend months/years fighting and making lawyers rich when it all could be addressed in contract just prolongs the misery.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Marriage has a defined end. Death. Marriage with an expiration date isn't actually marriage. It's a handfasting, a domestic partnership, a LTR...but not a marriage.

And, yeah, I wouldn't be inclined to invest much if I knew the marital contract would expire in, say, 5 years or whatever. 

All in or GTFO.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Again i feel the need to add to this thread, ok my marriage is **** and my wife is living with a co-worker, i can accept this as i know she was never really married to me in the same way as i was to her, but it broke down and i have to live with it. When we make choices in life if we are lucky then we make the right choice and everything is terrific, how often do we get buyers remorse choosing something mundane like a car, TV or carpet, a lot if everybody is like me, now my G/F of 15 years of age i met whilst out walking one sunday afternoon, i was 16 and we were smitten, 34 years later she walks out of a marriage she put little into, how can i expect to have found a partner when we were so young and expect it to last forever. I would guess that even in happy marriages if given the chance to walk away a few people would jump at the chance and never look back, this is because we believe that we will be happier away from our life partner and happy with the guy/gal from the filling station, office next door or the person you make eye contact with a lot from the gym, maybe this is true in some instances but their will be that day of reckoning when you lye in bed with the light off and see that you are in fact unhappy as you have caused so much pain, hurt and upset, broken a family up, sold houses and let lawyers get richer, for what. A marriage takes two dedicated people loving each other not because they are perfect but because they are flawed, it is the flaws that make it real, if compromise can play a part and a bit of self sacrifice then it will work to both partners advantage, a stable home to raise children, a life of high promise where you can relax and watch it all go by and feel satisfied that you made a difference by sticking around and not bolting when you saw the door open. Marriage is the best of things, my time on TAM has informed me of this, amongst the heartache and sorrow their is light at the end of the tunnel, a very bright light.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, marriage isn't necessary. The main reasons to marry are some of the legally sanctioned benefits (and the main reasons not to marry are some of the legally sanctioned/mandated penalties of being married, or of breaking up). I think the laws should be changed to neither encourage nor discourage marriage. Laws should be neutral or mute on the subject, only coming into play to protect children, and to resolve legitimate disputes as can occur in any contract (so primarily financial issues). I would exclude non-criminal behavior and sexual disputes from legal intervention - those can be handled by the couple (or they can walk, and just deal with the contractual issues), or by paid mediators or therapists. Contractual issues could still include spousal support, especially if your contract divides responsibilities so that one person's job is to take care of the family and not bring in an outside income.

People get together for love and partnerships (historically and traditionally, love wasn't usually a consideration). Love can't be legislated. The rest is contractual. Vows aren't enforceable, and the state shouldn't be involved. If you want to make vows, do so - just don't expect the state to be involved.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Marriage has a defined end. Death. Marriage with an expiration date isn't actually marriage. It's a handfasting, a domestic partnership, a LTR...but not a marriage.
> 
> And, yeah, I wouldn't be inclined to invest much if I knew the marital contract would expire in, say, 5 years or whatever.
> 
> All in or GTFO.


I wholeheartedly agree! What if one of you gets sick, can't work during the illness, and takes a year or two to recover? Do you really expect your "partner" to step in and provide your food, housing, etc. and take care of all of the domestic and life chores (and you!) during the time you are sick, when it's just perhaps a short term partnership? Someone to provide all of the $$$ and energy caring for you and for your life for an extended time period in a non permanent life partnership? I wouldn't. If at any time I could be "let go" and will then only have myself looking out for myself, then I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice that much of my $$$ and energy on this person, I'd be needing to look out for my own future. Keep my funds for MY future (not our future because there isn't really an OUR) and not run myself ragged caring long term for another and deplete my own energy, I'll need it for MY future. Because we AREN'T LIFE PARTNERS.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I wholeheartedly agree! What if one of you gets sick, can't work during the illness, and takes a year or two to recover? Do you really expect your "partner" to step in and provide your food, housing, etc. and take care of all of the domestic and life chores (and you!) during the time you are sick, when it's just perhaps a short term partnership? Someone to provide all of the $$$ and energy caring for you and for your life for an extended time period in a non permanent life partnership? I wouldn't. If at any time I could be "let go" and will then only have myself looking out for myself, then I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice that much of my $$$ and energy on this person, I'd be needing to look out for my own future. Keep my funds for MY future (not our future because there isn't really an OUR) and not run myself ragged caring long term for another and deplete my own energy, I'll need it for MY future. Because we AREN'T LIFE PARTNERS.


What do you think gay people did for all those years before marriage was legal for them? Exactly what you described. They were there for each other without state sanction or penalty. What does it really say about the commitment anyway if the main reason to keep it is the fear of penalties for not keeping it? Either one is committed or one isn't.

The suggestion of a finite end to the marital contract as it applies to the State is simply saying that after say five years, both parties sit down and evaluate, and decide to either renew, or let it expire. It is not saying that at the end of the contract period, it is a divorce that the couple has to go their own way.

Also, there are two mutually exclusive partnerships at play that both happen to use the same term...marriage. There is spiritual marriage that is done and sanctioned through a church, and there is the civil marriage done through and sanctioned by the state. While most churches require a state marriage license, there is no law requiring such. That is entirely up to the church.

What amazes me are the number of people who get married for all the spiritual reasons in the eyes of god, yet still rely on the state sanction for it to count. People can get married in the eyes of god without having it blessed by the state, but when it comes to property, health, line of succession, that is the pervue of the state which is completely separate from the church.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm with those that believe the State should not be part of marriage. There should be no incintive to be married or not. No tax credits, etc. I have been happily married for a long time, but I don't think the government should push the institution on anyone


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I wholeheartedly agree! What if one of you gets sick, can't work during the illness, and takes a year or two to recover? Do you really expect your "partner" to step in and provide your food, housing, etc. and take care of all of the domestic and life chores (and you!) during the time you are sick, when it's just perhaps a short term partnership? Someone to provide all of the $$$ and energy caring for you and for your life for an extended time period in a non permanent life partnership? *I wouldn't.*


Well, I did! For 10 years. I guess that I'm a better person than you, then, because I did it out of love, as we weren't married. And then I did marry her - so she could get health insurance through me.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Wow, I see that some people conflate the idea of a relationship with marriage just as some people conflate the idea of God with religion. In both cases, when the confusion takes place people tend to ignore the first and focus on the second. In both cases they are wrong. The second is predicated on the first, and if one were to ignore the first, the second still has no meaning.
Marriage whether it be temporary or "until death do us part" is predicated on having a relationship. I am amazed at how many people who think it is "until death do us part" imagine that their spouse SHOULD love them just because of some words spoken many years ago in a different time when they were both different people. 
And please save the "people don't change" crap. People are always changing, even at their core, because each of us is the sum total of our experiences and those experiences are continually happening. So if you've gotten a new job, had a baby, moved to a new neighborhood etc, etc, you have been changed. If you haven't, well then you are dead.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Well, I did! For 10 years. I guess that I'm a better person than you, then, because I did it out of love, as we weren't married. And then I did marry her - so she could get health insurance through me.


A friend of mine at work was with his girlfriend for almost ten years, step father to her son, stayed with and supported her through breast cancer, all without being married. The kicker is, they got married, and in less than a year, they are now in the process of divorce because she decided to get a boyfriend to go along with her husband...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Ynot said:


> Wow, I see that some people conflate the idea of a relationship with marriage just as some people conflate the idea of God with religion. In both cases, when the confusion takes place people tend to ignore the first and focus on the second. In both cases they are wrong. The second is predicated on the first, and if one were to ignore the first, the second still has no meaning.
> Marriage whether it be temporary or "until death do us part" is predicated on having a relationship. I am amazed at how many people who think it is "until death do us part" imagine that their spouse SHOULD love them just because of some words spoken many years ago in a different time when they were both different people.
> And please save the "people don't change" crap. People are always changing, even at their core, because each of us is the sum total of our experiences and those experiences are continually happening. So if you've gotten a new job, had a baby, moved to a new neighborhood etc, etc, you have been changed. If you haven't, well then you are dead.


Not just "because of some words spoken many years ago" but rather because of the COMMITMENT that was made.

Of course we change. Neither my wife nor I are like the people we were 30 years ago. But we have always been committed to changing TOGETHER, and that's exactly what we've done. Our marriage is stronger than ever today precisely because of that commitment we made 30 years ago.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Not just "because of some words spoken many years ago" but rather because of the COMMITMENT that was made.
> 
> Of course we change. Neither my wife nor I are like the people we were 30 years ago. But we have always been committed to changing TOGETHER, and that's exactly what we've done. Our marriage is stronger than ever today precisely because of that commitment we made 30 years ago.


Would the commitment be less without state sanction?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Would the commitment be less without state sanction?


That's Beside the point I was making. State sanction is a completely different line of discussion from why individuals who are part of a couple should honor the commitment they made to each other.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's Beside the point I was making. State sanction is a completely different line of discussion from why individuals who are part of a couple should honor the commitment they made to each other.


Exactly. Marriage and commitment are mutually exclusive. They often coexist, but both can exist independent of the other. Ultimately, the commitment has to stand on its own.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> A friend of mine at work was with his girlfriend for almost ten years, step father to her son, stayed with and supported her through breast cancer, all without being married. The kicker is, they got married, and in less than a year, they are now in the process of divorce because she decided to get a boyfriend to go along with her husband...


Crap happens - kindness and dedication can't guarantee reciprocal loyalty. We've been married almost 10 years now. Of course, we're not worried about infidelity too much, since our relationship has been open/poly from the beginning.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> Exactly. Marriage and commitment are mutually exclusive. They often coexist, but both can exist independent of the other. Ultimately, the commitment has to stand on its own.


Technically speaking, two things that can coexist are not mutually exclusive-by definition "mutually exclusive " specifically refers to things that can't coexist.

For some, a relationship can last without the "bonds of holy matrimony" or state sanction. But for most, a public and/or legal declaration is a meaningful element of the commitment.

It also adds an element of accountability, something most people need in any aspect of life,


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Not just "because of some words spoken many years ago" but rather because of the COMMITMENT that was made.


Commitment can exist (or not!), with or without marriage. Marriage alone means nothing except legally, if the commitment doesn't exist.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's Beside the point I was making. State sanction is a completely different line of discussion from why individuals who are part of a couple should honor the commitment they made to each other.


No, that was actually the point. Your commitment has nothing to do with your marriage. Sorry if you don't understand that. But FTR commitments change too.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I think of marriage as a total commitment. Personal, social, spiritual, and legal. If a couple are committed but unwilling to be legally committed, their commitment seems incomplete.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I read the article. Meh

Obviously too many people were getting married too young as evidenced by the divorce rate. So maybe the decrease is a good thing

I hope my kids marry. But I have pretty strict ideas about marriage. It's worked for me - going on almost 30 years.

Our marriage perhaps started differently, and maybe the differences mattered. Who knows. But here was our start

1- we were initially very attracted to each other. So much so that she went to a party just to meet me and I aggressively pursued her the first night even though up to that point I had been very reserved with girls. So strong attraction is necessary

2-we dated 6 years. You have to have ups and downs and see each other in the best and worst light. You have to get past the infatuation phase and still be in love. You have to actually LIKE each other and care about the others happiness

3-we individually pursued our careers, worked long hours, and totally supported each other in their careers. We were co-equal in that way - mine paid much more but we both respected each other's career effort and advancement and sacrifice

4-we never lived together. Dating is dating and marriage is marriage. Living together exposes the drudgery of life. It makes you complacent. It cheapens your time together. Plus - we had date nights, we talked in the phone multiple times a day, and we went out with friends - all of these things each week. We were riding side by side early in our careers but learned to be independent too

5-we couldn't keep our hands off each other when we finally did see each other. Lots of sexual and emotional energy. Sustained for 6 years.

6-when we decided to marry it was because we wanted to spend all our time together. We actually WANTED it

7-once we married we couldn't believe how great it was to see each other every day. We upgraded our relationship via marriage

If you go into it completely knowing each other - and still want to do it - you're way ahead of some. If you've become best friends it helps too. And if you don't do it till you both align important values - like work ethic, attitudes toward spending and saving, plans for kids, support for careers, knowledge of bad habits and friends - then you don't really have a leg to stand on if something core about the other person bothers you. Our joke is "you knew that when you married me".

I'll definitely be sharing my ideas with my kids. I'll encourage them to learn how to be supportive but also have self respect and boundaries. And take their time getting to know each other

It's still a crap shoot. But you shouldn't give the house even better odds against you by being impulsive or foolish



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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I think of marriage as a total commitment. Personal, social, spiritual, and legal. If a couple are committed but unwilling to be legally committed, their commitment seems incomplete.


So you think the state should have the final say? Government sanctioned marriage is simply a legal contract according to the rules that they set. The reality is that any couple could create their own form of legal contract if they so choose to, with no input from the state. But as I have said previously there is great deal of conflation that takes place wherein many people confuse the marriage with the commitment. The marriage is useless as the rest of it without the commitment. IN fact I would say, that marriage, with all of its attendant assumptions and societal expectations probably does more to undermine the commitment, than it does to make it stronger. Very similar to many people's confusion about God and religion. Rather than focus on God, they focus on the religion. The same with marriage, way too many people choose to focus on the marriage and not on the commitment. 
One can only commit for the moment, because none of us knows what our future holds. Each of us is the sum total of our experiences, our partners included. Some experience we or they may have may cause us to question the commitment we have made to another. I say this as a man whose wife left him after 24 years. If she thinks she will be happier without me, then that is her choice. My only choice is to move forward. All of the "until death do us part" posts are great, I hope they are able to see it through successfully, but those are only wishful thinking. None of us can control what our SOs experience.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Ynot said:


> So you think the state should have the final say? Government sanctioned marriage is simply a legal contract according to the rules that they set. The reality is that any couple could create their own form of legal contract if they so choose to, with no input from the state. But as I have said previously there is great deal of conflation that takes place wherein many people confuse the marriage with the commitment. The marriage is useless as the rest of it without the commitment. IN fact I would say, that marriage, with all of its attendant assumptions and societal expectations probably does more to undermine the commitment, than it does to make it stronger. Very similar to many people's confusion about God and religion. Rather than focus on God, they focus on the religion. The same with marriage, way too many people choose to focus on the marriage and not on the commitment.
> One can only commit for the moment, because none of us knows what our future holds. Each of us is the sum total of our experiences, our partners included. Some experience we or they may have may cause us to question the commitment we have made to another. I say this as a man whose wife left him after 24 years. If she thinks she will be happier without me, then that is her choice. My only choice is to move forward. All of the "until death do us part" posts are great, I hope they are able to see it through successfully, but those are only wishful thinking. None of us can control what our SOs experience.


As for religion, a good person will be a good person without the threat of eternal pain and suffering, and as to those that need the threat to stay in line...


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> As for religion, a good person will be a good person without the threat of eternal pain and suffering, and as to those that need the threat to stay in line...


And the same is true of marriage.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> True (especially what I bolded). But what's a "good" person? Why are they "good"?


I can't answer for Samyeager, but for myself a good person is simply someone who is honest with others. IMO, honesty is the only thing we owe someone else.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Rick Blaine said:


> I love being married, but it does require a mindset that invites compromise, hard work, and sacrifice.


And a hell of a risk. Oh well, none of us deserve to exit this world unscathed. 

Six years after a devastating betrayal I chose to marry again. That was 18 years ago and so far it's been worth it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Hope1964 said:


> People are WAY too dependent on others for their happiness. If one wants to continue and the other doesn't well, too bad so sad. Get over it - you knew it was coming. Right now no one knows it's coming. Well ALMOST no one. Usually.


I would cringe to be with someone who even thought like this... I find it ugly somehow....I feel it's the attitude that comes with the NOT CARING I read in these threads that is so off putting to me...

It has only contributed to the growing narcissistic mindset we see today in so many.. it's all about ME ME ME and "my happiness"... where are those who want to share happiness and enhance another's life, when it's about "US"...as this brings them JOY...

Truly if a person lacks this mindset.. they should not even think of getting married..


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would cringe to be with someone who even thought like this... I find it ugly somehow....I feel it's the attitude that comes with the NOT CARING I read in these threads that is so off putting to me...
> 
> It has only contributed to the growing narcissistic mindset we see today in so many.. it's all about ME ME ME and "my happiness"... where are those who want to share happiness and enhance another's life, when it's about "US"...as this brings them JOY...
> 
> Truly if a person lacks this mindset.. they should not even think of getting married..


Yes, my wife and I are married, but even if we did not have state sanction, I would still be the loving, caring, supporting, and faithful husband that I am. State sanction does not change how I view my relationship. My commitment is to my marriage and my wife, with or without the state's blessing.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

samyeagar said:


> Yes, my wife and I are married, but even if we did not have state sanction, I would still be the loving, caring, supporting, and faithful husband that I am. State sanction does not change how I view my relationship. My commitment is to my marriage and my wife, with or without the state's blessing.


When I think about Marriage.. the state, rules , this sanction you speak of, it's like this part doesn't even enter into my thinking....

I hold marriage in a romantic light...I think the traditional vows are beautiful.. I still feel it should be worth something...


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

TX-SC said:


> I'm with those that believe the State should not be part of marriage. There should be no incintive to be married or not. No tax credits, etc. I have been happily married for a long time, but I don't think the government should push the institution on anyone


The state and the church form basically the same thing in many countries, the power the church has over individual law makers makes the church a very powerful institution when arguing for marriage, abortion, contraception etc, they need as they always have done the law makers to make the laws that suit the policies of the church, it is madness to think that the state can withdraw from marriage, it will never happen, powerful forces are at play when the church and state get together and map out our lives for us, it will never happen. Here in the UK we have a second legislative body called the house of lords, they scrutinise the laws the house of commons make through elected members, the second chamber is unelected and is full of old lawyers, retired elected members, bishops etc, nothing in the world is going to reform this chamber as no government has the stomach to abolish it or heavily reform it methods, this is where the church and the state meet in the UK, the church has a vice like grip on any policies the elected governments create, if the church doesn't like any of it it is scuppered before it see's the light of day.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> True (especially what I bolded). But what's a "good" person? Why are they "good"?


Ethics addresses this issue. Personally, "goodness" in a higher sense derives from behaviors that evolved to enhance survival of the species and tribe. Once you break down those evolved behaviors into core principles, you can develop a set of ethical behaviors.

For me, the core principles include the idea that everyone wants to be safe, and be happy. Other people will include concepts that only their safety and happiness matter - they will gladly use or abuse others to ensure they and their loved ones thrive, even at the expense of others. This is where things start to go wrong, because it creates conflict that is counterproductive compared to cooperation. And the selfish people always have to live in fear that those they use will take them down. In response, they create more and more repressive and harsh situations if they can gain power, in order to preserve it. It's pathological.

So, if everyone agrees that everyone else also wants and deserves to be safe and happy (and to some extent based on their own abilities and effort, when they are capable of such), then a system of ethics flows from there quite easily.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

I believe marriage is on the decline because men are realizing the hard way divorce courts do not slightly favor them so they avoid the risk altogether. Longevity wise, men understand family law doesn't favor them as well. Feminisms biggest wins are in divorce court and through child custody laws. It has become too costly an investment if it turns mistake.

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