# Our marriage is better...WHY?!



## Brendalee (Jun 11, 2013)

Hello,

I am hoping someone can relate to my situation....I am happy but confused.

My husband and I married mid life - together nearly a decade, married 4 yrs. We lived apart until we married due to our careers.

Our marriage has been awful, it was bad enough I put myself in counseling. Before my husband I had a long term healthy relationship...very stable and calm. But this marriage was making me sick from stress. It could be unbelievably wonderful and then equally terrible at the drop of a hat.

I have seriously questioned his mental stability, MINE ...I ruled out BPD, and I wonder about bipolar? Could fit but I'm not a doctor and of course my husband refuses counseling or seeing a doctor. He is almost neurotic about his refusal.

This January, I had it. I was finally strong enough to tell him I had enough and I was ready to talk divorce. 

He doesn't want one, he retracted his divorce threats. He still refuses counseling or see a doctor. He is changed. Not just a little, I mean a LOT. We haven't had anything other than a minor typical annoyance since! 

I wish I could take responsibility for this change, or point to something.....but I really can't. 

I haven't done anything different, truthfully, I have done nothing this year, I really gave up on us and I wanted out. 

I pray we turned a corner, and its been 10 months now. I am prepared for things to get bad but we have never been this good for this long.

I hope it is not too soon to be cautiously optimistic.

Thanks for listening. Brendalee


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

You needed to scare the crap out of him and that is what you did. He let his behavior become habitual, but decided to do something about it when he realized you were really out the door. 

Good for you for putting your foot down.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

JustHer said:


> You needed to scare the crap out of him and that is what you did. He let his behavior become habitual, but decided to do something about it when he realized you were really out the door.
> 
> Good for you for putting your foot down.


A large percentage of my posts are written recommend the "scare the crap out of him" strategy. I also call it the "kick in the gut". I got that name from the sensation I got from it. And that's where I was going until I read this:



Brendalee said:


> This January, I had it. I was finally strong enough *to tell him* I had enough and I was ready to talk divorce.


I would normally start these responses quoting this type of a statement. Because EVERY TIME I recommend this strategy it is to say that talking won't do it. You have to do something drastic. In other words, I question if this "telling him" conversation is what cased the changed behavior. 

My changed behavior is permanent. My kick in the gut/scare the crap out of him moment actually changed my DNA IMMEDIATELY. No way was I going to continue to be the kind of person who would drive the love of his life, his life partner away forever. No way was I going to be that kind of person again. 

OP. Was that conversation enough to let him know he was about to lose you? I knew what I was doing wrong in my relationship. Her "telling me" all of those years did NOTHING. Was this encounter enough to let him know you were serious?

If so, 100% agreement with JustHer. Could it have been that "a-ha!" moment for him? Or was it just the 20th time you've told him and, lo and behold, he listened this time? If the second one, I'd be wary.


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## ella1048 (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm wondering if THIS approach would work for me!!!


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

My guess is he came to this site for advice and we gave it to him good!  

Glad we could help. hahaha


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

My wife didn't play the divorce care but she did play the I am unhappy, how would you feel about us separating card. I had no doubts that she was serious and that I would be moving out very, very soon.

I snapped out of it. Sometimes it really does take a good shake up to make people realize what is about to be gone. It took a lot for her to work up to that. I am now working on giving her the love and respect that she needs and it is all due to her approach. Anything less more than likely would have been blown off by me.


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## ella1048 (Apr 11, 2013)

Wow Kolors...
I like this response......wondering if you behaved like my husband is now....generally miserable, in a bad mood most of the time......not nice to be around....and it's caused me so much stress and anxiety. this was a man who was so loving and thought I could do no wrong.....now, I often feel like I can't do ANYTHING right....and it's stressful to be around someone like that!


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

That was exactly how I was behaving. I tended to come in from work, make our dinner, then go sit down at my desk and ignore the family. I yelled at the kids for making noise, and really did not give my wife any support emotionally or domestically. 

I carried on like that for at least the last two years she says. I obviously had some depression and anxiety issues that I finally spoke to my doctor about and also found out I had high blood pressure and a B Vitamin deficiency that was making me generally sluggish.

She has now went from wanting to separate to waiting to see if I have actually changed. The talk has went from lets give it three months to, lets see how it is in a year. I am working on communication with her and having respect for her. We have an appointment with a MC for the 21st, a few days before we leave to take the kids to Disney for the first time. 

Really, sometimes you need to be scared straight. Why give up a good thing?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

You posted that you lived apart prior to marriage. My husband and I dated for 7 years before we married. We did not live together prior to that so for us, the first year or two of marriage was difficult. Two people that grew up in different households coming together and learning to live together. Everything from cooking, cleaning, chores, bill paying was a struggle. (I remember one time he told me I was vacuuming wrong. Really?) Anyway, eventually things settled down.

I'm wondering if this could be partially what the issue was about. You lived apart while dating and you married later in life. Maybe the both of you were set in your ways and it took a while to figure things out. Add in your talk last January and things are better.


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## Brendalee (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. 

I appreciate the pats on the back but I'm not sure I deserve it 

I should have put my foot down countless times before but I was scared, horrified to think my new marriage was a disaster. 

When I did "it", it was far from dramatic - I had just given up. He was having one of his fits, it had gone on for nearly 6 weeks (again), he threatened to head out on his own, he moved out of the bedroom and stopped speaking to me. Our typical routine, sadly. 

There was no begging, pleading, I just didn't care anymore. I suggested we separate as the first step, while we sort out the home/work issues etc. He threatened me financially and I told him fine, do whatever he needed to do. Sigh. Frankly, there wasn't much discussion.

That was pretty much it. I even hugged him a few days later and told him it will be ok, lets get along until we get back (we were on vacation!) and take it from there. I was a little scared but mostly relieved. I educated myself about divorce and met with lawyers just in case. I didn't share the lawyer part with him. Needless to say I was ready and I still am. 

It wasn't a nice place to find myself and I simply couldn't have done it before, I don't threaten divorce EVER - I think it is a cheap tactic.

When we first married I thought it was adjustment, stress, I made excuses but this was more than just us getting used to each other, his mood swings are TERRIBLE and they last for weeks. I do believe today he kept us from living together until marriage due to some awareness of his issues. Yes, I said HIS issues...I know I am not suppose to, problems are 50:50 right? Everyone says that and I assumed it too but at least for now I have come full circle. I am far from perfect but I am even tempered and dependable. My ex and I were together for 13 yrs and we handled disagreements, no nastiness, even our breakup was amicable. 

But this husband??

I recall an incident where I came home with a flower for my garden to replace one that had died. It cost $3. He screamed at me for buying something without "proper planning" and moved out of our bedroom and didn't speak to me for 8 days.

To be honest, I am ashamed at the way I have allowed him to treat me at times. He has come to admit he is aware he has some problems with control/irritation and he thinks "faster" then others. He says it "isn't me" it would be with anyone who spent enough time with him. This was a conversation that I appreciated but has given me some pause.

Fair enough but he also won't get help and has said as much even if it cost us our marriage. He says he can manage "it" for now, to his credit, something does seem to have changed. 

Its like he seems to actually likes/respects me as a person again, something I have truly questioned before this year. He is supportive, no more belittling, blaming, no shocking mood swings, he is involving me with decisions and most of all he has stopped trying to bully me. It is a behavior of his I have found shocking since we married, when he wants something from me or wants me to agree with him, he is relentless.

I feel like I am finally with the man I thought I married....I do feel some anger at these last years if this is something he can control. 

Internally my shift has been to be more selfish, nice huh?  I refuse to walk on eggshells around him anymore, pander to his moods, explain myself more than once, etc. The basics I guess but again, this has helped me, but don't think he notices or this has had a direct effect. 

I am making his sound bad but he also has wonderful qualities (loving, dependable, smarts, hobbies...) the reasons why I married him. 

That's my story so far.....fingers crossed!

Again, thanks for reading & input, Brendalee


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Brendalee said:


> When I did "it", it was far from dramatic - I had just given up. He was having one of his fits, it had gone on for nearly 6 weeks (again), he threatened to head out on his own, he moved out of the bedroom and stopped speaking to me. Our typical routine, sadly.
> 
> There was no begging, pleading, I just didn't care anymore. I suggested we separate as the first step, while we sort out the home/work issues etc. He threatened me financially and I told him fine, do whatever he needed to do. Sigh. Frankly, there wasn't much discussion.


Good job.

My wife didn't plan the kick. She didn't even know it would be a kick. I was pestering her to tell me why she didn't love me. She did. Just a couple of sentences. That's all it took.

Ladies. He just needs to know you mean it this time.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

So for those of us in similar situations to Brendalee, during serious or repetitive conflict the kick will get a man's attention as opposed to making them feel that they were given an ultimatum and those can backfire?

Would telling your spouse: I'm sorry you feel that your mom was manipulative and your ex was but it's been 13 years and I'm tired of paying for it be considered "the kick" if you've never said something like that before?


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## Brendalee (Jun 11, 2013)

> making them feel that they were given an ultimatum and those can backfire?


I think it can, mine would have...but it didn't matter when I reached my limit, I truly assumed he would agree at the time. I was just shooting for calming the situation, and working on an amicable split.



> Would telling your spouse: I'm sorry you feel that your mom was manipulative and your ex was but it's been 13 years and I'm tired of paying for it be considered "the kick" if you've never said something like that before?


I tried this and everything else....long discussions, short ones, I coached myself a thousand ways and none of it mattered. Truth is my husband knows damn well, and all of it became a circular argument, he would look me in the eye and tell me he didn't remember our latest whatever. Truth was at the time he was blowing me off and agreeing to things he had no intention of doing just to shut me up for the short term.

My experience of course, and I don't know that I am out of the woods yet.



> Ladies. He just needs to know you mean it this time.


You may be right & thanks but while maybe this "worked" it only did so by default. I think my reaching this point is treacherous too, if he starts up again without acknowledgement or a plan that HE comes up with and HE follows, he's going to be drinking coffee solo.

I hope this is the crux of my marriage but what a conundrum, to have to throw in the towel for real to save it. Sounds easy but its everything but, its the worst in a way. Not to mention my residual anger....and I still have my lawyer on speed dial with an immediate plan of action. 

This is my situation to date and honestly, I married him for wonderful reasons and maybe we will work out but I think I'm a few years out to relaxing in this marriage, to really trusting him. 

Despite it all, I do love him and see hope for us, he's looking at me right now like a darling, happy as a clam. This is how it should be, we lost some years at a minimum for zero reason, immaturity and selfishness. 

Thanks for talking everyone, I really appreciate the conversation. 

Brendalee


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

wifenumber2 said:


> So for those of us in similar situations to Brendalee, during serious or repetitive conflict the kick will get a man's attention as opposed to making them feel that they were given an ultimatum and those can backfire?
> 
> Would telling your spouse: I'm sorry you feel that your mom was manipulative and your ex was but it's been 13 years and I'm tired of paying for it be considered "the kick" if you've never said something like that before?


No. Read the second part of my first post. It's not the telling. Or what you tell them. It's having them realize they will lose something if they don't change. Normally I'd say words WON'T do it. It didn't for me. My wife "told me" until she was blue in the face what was wrong. I didn't listen. There were no negative consequences. MY kick, for example, was finding out the love of my life, my life partner of 20+ years didn't love me. And wasn't coming back. THAT'S a kick. 

Normally I'd have told Brendalee that her discussion wouldn't have done anything, but she handled it perfectly (if accidentally). It wasn't WHAT she said. There was something in the way she said it that made him realize he was going to lose her. I can GUARANTEE the kick in the gut strategy worked here. It's good to see.

My gut tells me his response to your discussion will be "deal with it", and life goes on. Walking to your bedroom after he says it, emerging with a suitcase, walking out the door and saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer. Sorry it had to end this way. I hope you get the help you need for your next marriage" WILL get his attention.

At this point, turning around and saying "OK, one last chance" will also do NOTHING. No consequences.

See the difference? I'm glad it worked for Brendalee, but she got lucky. She lucked into the kick. There was something in the delivery that had him BELIEVING he finally lost her. That's the key. 

"I won't live like this any more. Goodbye". Something like that. But he needs to BELIEVE it.

My wife was gone already and was never coming back. That was my kick. It didn't help my marriage or my wife, but it helped me. Do it right and it can help you and your husband. also.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Brendalee said:


> Its like he seems to actually likes/respects me as a person again, something I have truly questioned before this year. He is supportive, no more belittling, blaming, no shocking mood swings, he is involving me with decisions and most of all he has stopped trying to bully me. It is a behavior of his I have found shocking since we married, when he wants something from me or wants me to agree with him, he is relentless.
> 
> I feel like I am finally with the man I thought I married....I do feel some anger at these last years if this is something he can control.
> 
> ...


I don't find it selfish at all to HOLD YOUR boundaries, express them firmly....that yeah...you continue this behavior, I am OUT OF HERE...this is not selfish, this is life and marriage preserving...it is RESPECTING yourself... and caring for your own happiness... the people who do NOT do this...end up being enablers of sometimes atrocious behavior....C0-dependents even...which causes a mountain of resentment , loss of self esteem, and no one wins...both live in misery until death sometimes, and everyone around them suffers to some degree. 

Your husband has a new RESPECT for you -for standing up to him... Kudoos to you! ...now to open up and really talk about these changes...would be another step in the right direction. 

Here is a book that touches on this sort of thing... Boundaries in Marriage: 



> Learn when to say yes and when to say no--to your spouse and to others--to make the most of your marriage Only when a husband and wife know and *respect* each other's needs, choices, and freedom can they give themselves freely and lovingly to one another. Boundaries are the 'property lines' that define and protect husbands and wives as individuals. Once they are in place, a good marriage can become better, and a less-than-satisfying one can even be saved.
> 
> Drs. Henry Cloud and John Townsend, counselors and authors of the award-winning best-seller *Boundaries*, show couples how to apply *the 10 laws of boundaries* that can make a real difference in relationships. They help husbands and wives understand the friction points or serious hurts and betrayals in their marriage---and move beyond them to the mutual care, respect, affirmation, and intimacy they both long for.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

In my opinion marriage Counseling is only necessary if a person or couple is unable or unwilling to figure out what the problem is. Another reason would be communication problems that would turn any discussion of said problems in a shouting blame match. I went through something to your husband. My wife and I were in a near sexless marriage and I had had enough, but she refused to seek help saying it was not a problem. Eventually I took it on myself to read books, forums, and anything else I could find. I identified a few possible causes and implemented sweeping changes on my part. Many on this site said I was sucking up but most of them were way overdue and needed. It did not take long for her to notice and things improved rapidly. Basically, I was willing to bridge most of the gap between us and meet her more than half way, I have since been able to pull back a little and I feel the give and take between us is about even. 

Only time will tell but it appears as if Your husband has come more than half way to meet you and hopefully resolve your marriage issues. He is trying hard to be the husband yiu need. Hopefully you can go the rest of the way and work to be he wife he needs. You both seem to be in a better place now. It might be easier to talk and possibly bring problems out in the open. I would lay off the doctor or Counseling request for now and it give it more time to see if the changes are permanent. Ten months is a long time to fake it if he was not seriously committed to change in my opinion. By the way. My wife is like your husband. She does not need anyone's help to fix problems, and usually just chooses to sweep them under rug and hope they never come back. In the past this has been a point of major contention between us as I am a fixer and want to talk out everything. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManOhMan2013 (Aug 1, 2013)

My wife sent me an email saying "You want a divorce? You got it! Contact the lawyer!" She did this after I gave her the silent treatment; a cruel emotional abuse she has tormented me with for years. But it was a long time since I brought up the B Word. I never should have, I know. Yes, she scared me. Yes, things got better. But now it's still sexless and I am lonely. :scratchhead:


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## 2005tahoe (Aug 23, 2013)

Now that I see this thread I wonder if this is what my wife is doing to me?

here is my story:

I met my wife in 2003 at the place where I worked after a coworker introduced her to me. We instantly fell in love and dated four years and then moved into an apartment together to start our lives together. In 2007 we got married and bought a house within the same month, this did put us into a financial strain but we made it work and was happily married.

I had the pleasure of meeting her family and unfortunately her mother and I do not get along, its not that I hate her but we dont see eye to eye on issues. The is nothing that I would not do for my mother in law if she asked. My wife and I have had arguments in front of her mom but there was no yelling or anything like that, just disagreements.

In 2008 the company that I worked for ended up shutting down forcing me to look for employment. I found a job before my last day at the current company but unfortunately it paid 10-15K less but I had to take it. In the mean time I took 3 other jobs that paid around the same amount as the second job but they had promising futures that didnt happen.

Well after using credit cards to furnish our house and going on a honeymoon put us in a financial mess. We did bring some debt into the marriage but it was not alot. Fast forward to early 2012, I took yet another job paying the most money that I ever made but the financial damage was done. We had stopped paying credit cards in 2010 after getting so far behind on them that we would never see our way out. In December 2012 I was sued by a collection agency and my wife and I had no option but to file for bankruptcy.

We filed BK in early 2013 as a chapter 7 but know there would be a chance that it would be converted to a chapter 13 because our income was about the median income of 2 for our state. So, after a few months of trying for the chapter 7 we found out that it got converted to a chapter 13 in late May 2013. Well, I went home to give my wife the bad news and this is where she got really angry. I have never seen her this mad. I went ahead and had out attorney to get the chapter 13 papers ready to sign so we could get on with the payment plan. I asked her to remain calm and let us find out what the chapter 13 payment plan would be. Well it was only going to be $100 a month for 60 months to take care of ALOT of debt.

Well, Sunday she kissed me and told me that she loved me and went to church with her mom and went to shop afterwards. I tried to call her a few times throughout the day and finally got ahold of her and was kind of upset that she didnt answer her phone, well that turned into an argument in front of her mom.

Well, after that argument she decided to stay at her moms house that night figuring that she needed some cool off time. This was the first of June, since then I have not gotten one phone call from her or text message, like she disappeared out of my life.

A few days later I found out what our BK 13 payment plan was going to be. It was going to be $100 a month for 60 months to take care of ALOT of debt. I emailed her that info telling her that we could manage that and if she would tell me whats wrong so I can correct whatever she is upset about. I have not heard from her to this day and its been seven weeks with no contact whats so ever.

A month later I was served a decree of separation papers. In it she has me keeping the house and payments on it. She request keeping her vehicle but me paying the payments and all associated cost to go with it. She wants alimony, we have no kids and she makes more money than I do. She wants me to supply her with health insurance, we have never had a joint health insurance policy together and in 2008 when I lost the good job we could no longer afford it and we have not had it since then.

Her car payment had not been paid in the 2 months since she left but I cant afford to pay it and keep the house payment and utilities. She is staying at her moms house with no rent and makes more money than I do.

Im thinking the bankruptcy had alot to do with it but my wedding vows mean the world to me and I would have never have thought I would be going through this. I have been to counselors and to the preacher at my church to see if he would reach out to her mom to first of all reconcile with her and hopefully with my wife. The only thing that she brought up was finances for some reason.

I am just lost with whats going on. I would love to save my marriage but I am not getting any kind of response from her. We go to court about our separation next week. Will I get a chance to talk to her then? Will the judge recommend counseling? 


Ok, so I am 4 months into our separation. Today was a pretrial hearing until my wife agreed to sign the chapter 13 bankruptcy papers!! Just back in may is the reason she left, we had filed BK and they converted our CH 7 case to a CH 13. Then she refused to sign them and left me. Now we have to go through this stuff again with the bankruptcy lawyer. She even offered to do all of the work to get another CH. 13 petition ready and was going to call the previous BK lawyer today.

I dont know if i am taking that as a sign of her softening up to me or what. I did ask my lawyer to ask hers about marriage counseling and she declined again, this is the second time I have asked for it.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

She isn't softening. She is gettting the CH 13 stuff done to speed up the divorce. 

Knock on wood...and find a woman who isn't nuts.


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## 2005tahoe (Aug 23, 2013)

SunnyT said:


> She isn't softening. She is gettting the CH 13 stuff done to speed up the divorce.
> 
> Knock on wood...and find a woman who isn't nuts.


if thats the case then why didnt she sign them back in June?

I emailed her the day after she left and told her what the payments were going to be. She called the original BK lawyer then and told him that she was not going to sign anything and not file jointly. now she wants to?

I was going to file with or without her and already retained another lawyer to handle mine.


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## Brendalee (Jun 11, 2013)

> Normally I'd have told Brendalee that her discussion wouldn't have done anything, but she handled it perfectly (if accidentally). It wasn't WHAT she said. There was something in the way she said it that made him realize he was going to lose her. I can GUARANTEE the kick in the gut strategy worked here. It's good to see.


He's right. The conversation did surprise him but I think looking back he believed me because I gave up asking to work on our marriage, I didn't respond to his threats and when he said he was taking a job in another state I didn't blink. I started looking for better employment and possible relocation. 



> Your husband has a new RESPECT for you -for standing up to him... Kudoos to you! ...now to open up and really talk about these changes...would be another step in the right direction.


Thanks, and for the links I have let him know this new phase between us is great, I am very happy. I haven't touched on "marriage stuff", its up to him now in a way. 



> I would lay off the doctor or Counseling request for now and it give it more time to see if the changes are permanent. Ten months is a long time to fake it if he was not seriously committed to change in my opinion. By the way. My wife is like your husband. She does not need anyone's help to fix problems, and usually just chooses to sweep them under rug and hope they never come back. In the past this has been a point of major contention between us as I am a fixer and want to talk out everything.


My thought exactly. 10 months feels promising, especially since there is no hint of the disrespect during this time....before he would be "better" for a short time but his bullying/disrespect would leak through. 
I am waiting on MC, I still think it would be a good idea but I'm done asking. My husband is the sweep under the rug type too, when it comes to interpersonal issues, I have never seen anyone stick their head in the sand like he does. 

But with that said, what I am coming to realize is he also was not unaware of his behavior and I am not sure how I feel/what to make of that fact. It troubles me a bit. I still wonder a little about the bipolor possibility....but 10 months is a long time to be stable if he is/was? I really don't know. 

Time will tell I guess!

Brendalee


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