# "Our Marriage Was Already Over"



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

The content of her book and site are very good and a must read, especially for those in the beginning - middle stages of 'Coping With Infidelity'. Tracy Schorn has a daily blog post and today was one that I had to re-post here because;

- It's exactly what I heard after the fact
- From what I have read and heard in others' experiences, this is one of the more common concepts uttered by the enlightened Wayward
- It offers some good advice on how to interpret and handle what the honorable wayward is really trying to say!

Definitely in my next phase, which is the upward swing so I'm not on here as much and haven't read Chump Lady's blog in a few weeks but like absorbing info and at least trying to offer something when I can. Here is the link to her post today regarding the subject - https://www.chumplady.com/2018/09/ubt-our-marriage-was-already-over-2/


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

This is tantamount to a car thief saying "well, the car door wasn't locked!"

So what??? It's still stealing.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> This is tantamount to a car thief saying "well, the car door wasn't locked!"
> 
> So what???* It's still stealing.*


Oh, yes....

And it is still steaming.

After the fact, after the flak is loosed from open-to-air exposure.


Steam coming out of the Waywards ears.

Still steaming from beneath her skirt.
Wafting out from his half-zipped fly.

The Heat of Reaction still in play.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

I so wish I'd found the Chump Lady sooner. I did n't know about her until I came here, but she's a treat and a trip. LOVE her. Thanks for posting.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

In no way is adultery justified, but I sometimes think the BS were ignoring red flags in their marriage for a very long time. For example, "I hate having sex and we haven't had sex in 2 years. I scream and yell when I don't get my way. I'm messy and expect to be waited on hand and foot. I just found out I was cheated on! Boo hoo! How could this happen?". Obviously that's a contrived example, but in many situations, it's clear that the marriage was in serious trouble well before the adultery happened. If it wasn't an affair, then it would have been divorce or resentment or something like that.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

wilson said:


> In no way is adultery justified, but I sometimes think the BS were ignoring red flags in their marriage for a very long time. For example, "I hate having sex and we haven't had sex in 2 years. I scream and yell when I don't get my way. I'm messy and expect to be waited on hand and foot. I just found out I was cheated on! Boo hoo! How could this happen?". Obviously that's a contrived example, but in many situations, it's clear that the marriage was in serious trouble well before the adultery happened. If it wasn't an affair, then it would have been divorce or resentment or something like that.


There's definitely all types of situations. Situations where the marriage was great and then got steamrolled by an affair, situations that are your normal everyday marriage and then those that were indeed, headed down a path to Splitsville anyhow.

I'd say our marriage was more of the typical but more slated towards great, than headed towards divorce. The Anniversary before affair, the card to me stated that I made her happiest person and she was looking forward to the next 112 years together with me! We had just taken a trip to Disney as a family a few months earlier and we were in the process of doing some estate planning, will, etc. The marriage wasn't perfect but it wasn't bad either. If it wasn't him, it would have most likely happened with someone else and now what I saw as a curse, I see as an opportunity for rebirth, redemption ... a life that could potentially give me what I lacked from a personal standpoint but just socked away for the greater good.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

SentHereForAReason said:


> the honorable wayward


That's another one - like "government intelligence"..... or, "jumbo shrimp"....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TeddieG said:


> I so wish I'd found the Chump Lady sooner. I did n't know about her until I came here, but she's a treat and a trip. LOVE her. Thanks for posting.


She is a member here by the way.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

@sokillme thanks, I did NOT know that!


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Truth of the matter is when a wife cheats, she has lost, or never had, significant romantic interest in her husband therefore the marriage is defacto over. Those that don't cheat, and many that do, nevertheless become the primary reason the marriage is sexless. The same can be said of husbands, but men have a easier time finding sexual energy to service a wife they are no longer in love with. The old saying, "If she has an unattractive face, put a bag over her head before you have your way with her" was invented by a man.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Oh, Vlad. 

You had to make the "bag" statement. 😎😎😎


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> Truth of the matter is when a wife cheats, she has lost, or never had, significant romantic interest in her husband therefore the marriage is defacto over. Those that don't cheat, and many that do, nevertheless become the primary reason the marriage is sexless. The same can be said of husbands, but men have a easier time finding sexual energy to service a wife they are no longer in love with. The old saying, "If she has an unattractive face, put a bag over her head before you have your way with her" was invented by a man.


Ugh. Does that explain why men often affair down?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TeddieG said:


> Ugh. Does that explain why men often affair down?


How do you affair up? I don't think that is a thing.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

sokillme said:


> How do you affair up? I don't think that is a thing.


In midlife crisis circles, when a seemingly stable husband announces that I love you but I'm not in love you, or you catch him first being unfaithful, he's usually ****ing a ***** who is 100 pounds heavier, with a butch hair cut, six kids (with as many baby daddies), but happy to spread her legs for your pension check, and testing out other men (i.e., spreading her legs for them too) for a better deal, yeah, that's a wandering spouse who is, for inexplicable reasons, managing to affair down.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

TeddieG said:


> Ugh. Does that explain why men often affair down?


Like Ben Franklin said, " Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility". Hence the affaired down chick is grateful whereas the pretty wife often offers up duty sex or little or no sex at all while think she could have done so much better.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You guys are not getting it. Meaning when you have an affair the only way to go is down, because people who have affairs or by their very nature lower.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> How do you affair up? I don't think that is a thing.


Actually, there is.

Because for every person who affairs down, their AP is, most likely, affairing up.

Let's suppose a married Doctor meets the son of a friend who is a jobless slob who lives in his mother's basement and she starts an affair with him.

Whilst *she* has affaired down, *he* has affaired up.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

They may find someone who is prettier or has more status or what not, but anyone who cheats is pretty much a step down. So while they may affair up on the surface, they are always a fairing down in character.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> They may find someone who is prettier or has more status or what not, but anyone who cheats is pretty much a step down. So while they may affair up on the surface, they are always a fairing down in character.


This sums it up but in my case, it was a step down cosmetically as well. The common reaction, especially from women when I showed them the picture of OM was "Ewww!"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> They may find someone who is prettier or has more status or what not, but anyone who cheats is pretty much a step down. So while they may affair up on the surface, they are always a fairing down in character.


My first girlfriend dumped me for another man. (She thought he was wealthy, but he was a convicted fraudster who had served jail time.)

A good friend of hers said: "Matt! He looks terrible! Her own Dad looks better than him. And he is in his 70s!"


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

VladDracul said:


> The old saying, "If she has an unattractive face, *put a bag over her head* before you have your way with her" was invented by a man.


If really bad... go for a "2 Bagger". One for her and One for you, just encase her's falls off. :surprise:


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> Like Ben Franklin said, " Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility". Hence the affaired down chick is grateful whereas the pretty wife often offers up duty sex or little or no sex at all while think she could have done so much better.


I had the greatest, sweetest husband who still made me weak in the knees, made me swoon, and he knew it. He was a tall drink of water with a shock of beautiful salt and pepper hair and always had a moustache. He was my Sam Elliott. When a doctor took a stent out of my h's penis without anesthesia and left him with ED, my h wouldn't get medical help, and Viagra didn't help (it actually made him turn red and breath too fast, and his heart pounded almost out of his chest). He once told me in the height of his crazy that if he loved me, he wouldn't have ED. I told him that once and he denied ever saying it but I could hear the audible gasp on the other end of the phone.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

RWB said:


> If really bad... go for a "2 Bagger". One for her and One for you, just encase her's falls off. :surprise:


If you look around, you'll notice that many women that are considered "not that pretty" are only unattractive from the neck up and the ankles down.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> If you look around, you'll notice that many women that are considered "not that pretty" are only unattractive from the neck up and the ankles down.


Once upon a time Hollywood glamour was normal sized women like Marilyn Monroe (back then a size 12, today probably a size 8, given vanity sizes) or Natalie Wood. Now you can have the face of a horse but if you're rail thin (think wire clothes hanger) and no curves, that's supposedly beautiful.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Actually, there is.
> 
> Because for every person who affairs down, their AP is, most likely, affairing up.
> 
> ...


People who have affairs are loser. There is no up for either of them, they affair to there own level.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

sokillme said:


> People who have affairs are _*looser. *_There is no up for either of them, they affair to there own level.


Intentional, Freudian slip, or double entendre?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> If you look around, you'll notice that many women that are considered "not that pretty" are only unattractive from the neck up and the ankles down.


And, many that are the opposite.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Some people have exit affairs. Especially if the spouse has truly been neglectful or a behaved like a POS, then an exit affair may be a form of satisfying revenge.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

SentHereForAReason said:


> .....I see as an opportunity for rebirth, redemption ... a life that could potentially give me what I lacked from a personal standpoint but just socked away for the greater good.


I like your new name...

You give very thoughtful and insightful answer--speaking from experience.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

*sokillme 
How do you affair up? I don't think that is a thing.*

All of the women I know wouldn't go for an reasonably honest guy that is less than they are, especially when it comes to money and health.

If the guy can lie and charm a woman beyond belief then he can affair up, but the lies will catch up with him and then what happens to the relationship.

I know two cases where the woman had more than the man. In one case the man plays the typical wife role.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

TeddieG said:


> Once upon a time Hollywood glamour was normal sized women like Marilyn Monroe (back then a size 12, today probably a size 8, given vanity sizes) or Natalie Wood. Now you can have the face of a horse but if you're rail thin (think wire clothes hanger) and no curves, that's supposedly beautiful.


Personally, I've always found the curvy chicks with their ample bosoms and nice round butts to be the most desirable. I've got, or had in my younger years, the horse that could handle that kind of saddle. The guys that go for the curveless "boyish" look on a female, well what can you say.


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## Oceania (Jul 12, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> Personally, I've always found the curvy chicks with their ample bosoms and nice round butts to be the most desirable. I've got, or had in my younger years, the horse that could handle that kind of saddle. The guys that go for the curveless "boyish" look on a female, well what can you say.


Oh come on... you'd think it'd be easy as anything finding a cartoon of a sway back horse on it's last legs!

Just as well I have an imagination and it is funny! Lol...

All in good fun:smile2:


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey Cmon, I took it a something poked at in fun. Keep in mind that every swayback filly ain't on her last leg.


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## Oceania (Jul 12, 2018)

Vlad that's not a horse...


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Some people have exit affairs. Especially if the spouse has truly been neglectful or a behaved like a POS, then an exit affair may be a form of satisfying revenge.


Definitely. But sometimes it's not revenge, it's a safety net or next lily pad. 

My daughter is 18 and I can already tell which ones of her friends are going to always have the next guy on deck. In fact, they prime the next person up even while they have a "serious boyfriend". It's disgusting, but it starts in high school. Maybe it's fear of being alone, or it's super low self esteem, or it's just lust. But it's behavior that starts young.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

CmonDionne said:


> Vlad that's not a horse...


Nevertheless, many guys would still like to be in the saddle.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

VladDracul said:


> Nevertheless, many guys would still like to be in the saddle.


Well that's not big just for the sake of big. Theres some great tone there. Nothing wrong with a set of thighs that look like they could crush you like a grape!


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I completely agree with that Rocky. I little more bosom would round things out a little better for me, but don't get me wrong. Ain't no flies on just as she stands.


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## Oceania (Jul 12, 2018)

It's still not a horse...


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

TeddieG said:


> I so wish I'd found the Chump Lady sooner. I did n't know about her until I came here, but she's a treat and a trip. LOVE her. Thanks for posting.


She is brutally honest and one of the best resources I've ever stumbled across on this topic.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Some people have exit affairs. Especially if the spouse has truly been neglectful or a behaved like a POS, then an exit affair may be a form of satisfying revenge.


What they are actually doing is becoming a POS themselves.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Wish I had gotten the memo when I was told this in a last ditch effort to blameshift/minimize.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Well that's not big just for the sake of big. Theres some great tone there. Nothing wrong with a set of thighs that look like they could crush you like a grape!





VladDracul said:


> I completely agree with that Rocky. I little more bosom would round things out a little better for me, but don't get me wrong. Ain't no flies on just as she stands.


Legs look great, so does her front porch, though that rear porch is just way
to big for that house.

Hoping that it's because of the camera angle.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

wilson said:


> In no way is adultery justified, but I sometimes think the BS were ignoring red flags in their marriage for a very long time. For example, "I hate having sex and we haven't had sex in 2 years. I scream and yell when I don't get my way. I'm messy and expect to be waited on hand and foot. I just found out I was cheated on! Boo hoo! How could this happen?". Obviously that's a contrived example, but in many situations, it's clear that the marriage was in serious trouble well before the adultery happened. If it wasn't an affair, then it would have been divorce or resentment or something like that.


Wilson, you make it sound like the Wayward has no responsibility in this scenario. If the marriage is in serious trouble then the decent thing to do, is discuss it and say I am divorcing you if we cannot fix this not go out and screw someone else. Red flags may well be there but it is the responsibility of *both* parties to raise the issues.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

aine said:


> Wilson, you make it sound like the Wayward has no responsibility in this scenario. If the marriage is in serious trouble then the decent thing to do, is discuss it and say I am divorcing you if we cannot fix this not go out and screw someone else. Red flags may well be there but it is the responsibility of *both* parties to raise the issues.


Absolutely the WS needs to bring up the issues and that they are unhappy. If the dead marriage was so dysfunctional that the WS never mentioned that they were unhappy or what they were unhappy about, then the marriage never had a chance. But the typical case is that there have been many discussions about the issues but the problems still exist or a resolution cannot be found. 

Like I said, in no way does any of that justify an affair. It's like if you are poor, there are appropriate ways to approach the problem (get another job, cut expenses) and inappropriate ways (shoplift, rob a bank). The WS should approach the problem in appropriate ways. The first of which should be discussions with their spouse to fix the problems.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

This article rings hits on so many things in my own marriage. Ex had an exit affair which he says was not the reason for the divorce. He says he was struggling with the marriage for over 3 years. 

His default excuse for wanting a divorce was that our marriage was already over. It might have been over is HIS mind but he certainly never shared that information with me, or anyone else for that matter. 

His actions didn't indicate he was dissatisfied either. He never communicated his complaints and continued to act in a normal loving manner with me (we had date nights, shared love letters, had a normal sexual relationship thanks to me) right up until the day he asked for the divorce. 

He didn't even communicate his dissatisfaction during marriage counseling with his OWN personal therapist. Therapist met with us 3 times and told us we were a great couple. To come back to see him whenever we had a problem. 

So yeah, I don't buy that he was "emotionally disconnected" and that the marriage was already over. He "affaired up" with his OW and thought the grass was greener on the other side. She's single but B.S.C. I wish them all the best but won't be surprised when the walls start crumbling around their little love affair.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Lila said:


> This article rings hits on so many things in my own marriage. Ex had an exit affair which he says was not the reason for the divorce. He says he was struggling with the marriage for over 3 years.
> 
> His default excuse for wanting a divorce was that our marriage was already over. It might have been over is HIS mind but he certainly never shared that information with me, or anyone else for that matter.
> 
> ...


This is the classic wayward rewrite of history to make them feel better. My x said the same things, had been unhappy for awhile and I changed and blah blah. Truth is she met someone and had an affair and then need to make up how she felt unloved for years to make herself feel better about her behavior! And your right his affair relationship ship will end. That Karma train wreck is a treat to watch


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