# Newbie Question for LD Women...



## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Been browsing this site for a few months. I won't go into lengthy details as they are the same as many people on here. The basics are:

I'm HD man married to LD woman. Been through all of the emotions others have lamented about. Have considered all of the options one would consider when feeling that kind of anger, resentment, rejection, shame for 6 plus years.

SO, my question(s) for LD women. Was your husband ever able to get through to you how horrible you made him feel? If so, how was he able to create this epiphany and were you able to work things out? If not, where are you now?

I realize everyone's situation has variables and the husband plays a significant role in this. But if you were telling your male friend whom you believe has tried to make all the changes requested of an LD wife (be more affectionate outside of sex, be more present, be interested in my concerns/life/needs, etc..) what advise would you give for a final hail mary before throwing in the towel?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You're saying you've done everything? 
Shown affection, interest, empathy
Discovered her top emotional needs and sought to meet them 
Have made yourself an attractive mate
Initiate sex in a way that *could turn her on*
Flirt with her through out the day
Initiate sex long before you get to the bedroom

and she still remains uninterested in sex?

If so, then your Hail Mary is to say to her that you've done everything possible to make this marriage work and it's not happening so it's best to start discussing a divorce and how best to accomplish this.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Yes. Have done it all and then some.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Just dandy said:


> Yes. Have done it all and then some.


In that case time for your Hail Mary pass. 

Lots of times people don't make that Hail Mary pass until it's too late. They've already closed up shop and they really and truly are out the door and by then it's too late when the spouse wakes up.

That's why I believe spouses should be totally honest and tell the other, "I can't live like this. It changes drastically and permanently or I am going to start making plans to leave." It will be sad for you, there will be times of hope, then dashed, then hope again. But if you stick to your expectations, that you BOTH consistently show effort to meet one another's needs or you both make plans to divorce amicably, eventually you will get there.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Have her read, or read to her, Dennis Prager's "When a woman isn't in the mood". 

Many women have responsive desire (they like sex once it starts, but they are rarely interested just "out of the blue"). It's like going to the gym.

Make sure she understands what sex means to you.

Assuming that you are willing to end the marriage over this, then tell her that you have no intention of living the rest of your life like this. That, if nothing changes, you WILL leave. It's just a matter of when. Tell her you'd far prefer being married to her and having a satisfying sex life, but that you are unwilling to remain in a marriage that is sexually unfulfilling.

If she is unwilling to try and work with you, then she does not care enough about your happiness for you to stay married.

But, she has to KNOW that this isn't just some weird guy thing that you'll get over. She must know how serious you are.

My wife loves me and cares about my happiness. She just was unaware of how important something was to me (even though I would have sworn I had made it clear to her many times). Once I pressed the issue enough, the light bulb went off in her head and things improved greatly. 

However, if your happiness is not important to your wife, then this won't work. Which, I think, is a better reason to divorce her than the lack of sex.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Agree with everything you wrote Buddy. Thanks for the input.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Has she always been this way? If so you knew what you were getting. If not what's changed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Anon Pink
sadly a lot of HD men have done all this and still been rejected. Sadly those are men who are so loyal that they are unlikely to leave a relationship and find a women who would appreciate them.



Anon Pink said:


> You're saying you've done everything?
> Shown affection, interest, empathy
> Discovered her top emotional needs and sought to meet them
> Have made yourself an attractive mate
> ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I'm in your situation. Here is what I am doing. Some days I follow this better than others. Nothing very original here. 

1. Stop trying to figure her out. Accept that whatever hurdle you clear, there will be another one set up right behind it. The entire exercise just belittles you.

2. Focus on figuring yourself out. What kind of man do you admire? What can you do to be more like that kind of man?

3. Do what you want. Enjoy your life without her. The more you do this, the less her opinion matters. 

Note that none of this is aimed at convincing her to want you. It is key to abandon that mindset completely (again, easier said than done). Be the ball.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Sadly those are men who are so loyal that they are unlikely to leave a relationship and find a women who would appreciate them.


Loyal like a puppy dog. And we all know how hot women get for their puppy dogs.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

I was hoping for some input from LD women as to how it was their husbands connected with them on this issue. 

Although, I am starting to think that when the libido's are that different it will never really work. Even if LD increases frequency the passion won't be there because they will never have the yearn and hunger for that connection the same way an HD does. So it will always feel like its being down out of obligation - and the HD enjoys that less than the LD believe it or not.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You didn't say, did she ever have a sexual pulse? Or did you just have "new couple" sex for a short time and that was it? If you never had heated, consistent, mutually satisfying (no fakers) sex for a period of time ever, then she's probably truly LD.

If she used to be sexual and now she's gone flat on you, it might be stuff you can do things about.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Also if both of you weren't totally into each other at the start, if one of you was and the other wasn't (but maybe didn't admit it), then usually you won't become into each other later. It is kind of either there or it isn't. If it is there, it can be dimmed down or even lost. But if it never was (truly) it can't be manufactured and sustained. It can happen in spurts though. (yes, I said spurts)


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> (yes, I said spurts)


OMG that was funny - I laughed out loud.


To answer your question - new couple sex was good and frequent. Dated for 6 yrs before marriage and it was ok but not earth shattering and frequency did fall off. Fell off almost immediately after getting married. 

I've been trying to stay away from my personal details and get general input from LD women about what there husbands said/did to create a change


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There is a poster here named GettingIt. She did become aware of how their sexless marriage hurt her husband emotionally. She was always a sexual person, but had cut herself and him off for a long time due to a bunch of really normal marriage issues (but the kinds that tend to kill off your sex drive). She and her husband are really pulling through and their story is very romantic.

I'm sure she will wander by and comment eventually. I don't recall exactly how her journey toward understanding her hubby's POV started, other than that he said he did try to tell her many times and it didn't sink in (for various reasons, I'm not saying it was either one's fault). Actually wait, I think she said it started to sink in when she started reading stories here.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Is there any history of abuse or trauma in her background? Were her parents strict with her or very religious? Does she seem to have a very bad self image?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Have her read, or read to her, Dennis Prager's "When a woman isn't in the mood".
> 
> Many women have responsive desire (they like sex once it starts, but they are rarely interested just "out of the blue"). It's like going to the gym.
> 
> ...


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Dunno what happened there.....but this was my post;



Buddy - you deserve all the 'likes' you got! When my wife and I were going through MC (reluctantly on her side) our counselor asked my wife to read certain books/articles etc about sex in marriage and how important it is to 1) the marriage 2) the husband.

She read one seven page article - her response 'clearly written by a male sex maniac'. It was written my a FEMALE Australian professor.

So some women are simply just not interested in sex, whatever it means to their husband


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Initiate sex in a way that *could turn her on*


Class 10 existence failure


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

askari said:


> ……..So some women are simply just not interested in sex, whatever it means to their husband


True, and that is pretty much our situation. I'm exhausted with the topic and don't even want to discuss it with her anymore.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The base issue here is not that she is not interested in sex, it's that she's not interested in your happiness. THAT is the fundamental problem in the vast majority of these cases.

The odd time that these things work out in the end is when the LD spouse "gets it" and does something about it.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

alexm said:


> The odd time that these things work out in the end is when the LD spouse "gets it" and does something about it.


Totally agree! So to the spouses that "got it", how did this epiphany happen? What was said or done to make you get it? Was HD able to say it in a different way that did he have to draw a line in the sand?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My wife sort of got it when I explained to her that for me sex is a bonding and sharing experience. It is something I don't share with anyone else. I reveal myself in my most vulnerable way only to her, and only during sex.

She said she had thought for men sex was simply a physiologic need, that we just needed to "spurt it out" (her exact words). So she apparently felt like nothing other than a hooker being used for my physical pleasure when we had sex.

My wife was sexually abused as a child and thus has a lot of baggage. Which is why I asked above if there is any history of sex abuse, other abuse, parents with addictions, strict religious upbringing, etc. Your wife's mindset is at play here and if we have some idea what is going on we might have some ideas for you.

alexm is correct that ultimately she doesn't value or respect your happiness.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Just dandy said:


> I was hoping for some input from LD women as to how it was their husbands connected with them on this issue.
> 
> Although, I am starting to think that when the libido's are that different it will never really work. Even if LD increases frequency the passion won't be there because they will never have the yearn and hunger for that connection the same way an HD does. So it will always feel like its being down out of obligation - and the HD enjoys that less than the LD believe it or not.


Yes, that is the catch-22. She can't force herself to want sex if she is truly LD, any more than you can force yourself to not want sex if you are HD. So anything she does will be out of obligation or even out of love to try to please you, but not because she really wants more sex, and that won't actually please either of you.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> Yes, that is the catch-22. She can't force herself to want sex if she is truly LD, any more than you can force yourself to not want sex if you are HD. So anything she does will be out of obligation or even out of love to try to please you, but not because she really wants more sex, and that won't actually please either of you.


The idea is that she starts having sex out of obligation or love, finds that she enjoys having sex and then starts to want to have sex. 

If the goal is to get someone that doesn't want to have sex to suddenly start wanting sex, it ain't going to happen. 

It's like forcing yourself to go to the gym until you finally get into the habit and start WANTING to go to the gym (which is generally how it works).


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> The idea is that she starts having sex out of obligation or love, finds that she enjoys having sex and then starts to want to have sex.
> 
> If the goal is to get someone that doesn't want to have sex to suddenly start wanting sex, it ain't going to happen.
> 
> It's like forcing yourself to go to the gym until you finally get into the habit and start WANTING to go to the gym (which is generally how it works).


I agree that's how the HD person sees it and that's the goal, but it doesn't often translate into reality with HD/LD couples. An LD person trying duty sex often ends up with more resentment than desire.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

So NoraJane, that leaves the choices of 

1. cheating (not an option for me) 
2. Divorcing 
3. Accepting it and living this way 

Thor, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I truly believe I have expressed the same sentiment to my wife about the bonding experience that is only about the two of us. Years ago before that conversation she also said she felt like sometimes she could have been anybody - as long as I was getting off. So I tried to be more present, engaged and all of the things she asked for. Only to be met with the same lack of desire no matter the effort put in. 

She was not abused. Her parents are normal folks although very conservative but not overly repressive or religious. She has some insecurity issues but nothing extreme. 

I do think however that she tries to paint me as some kind of perv because I want something more than missionary every six weeks. I'm not sure if that is deflection or if she really has a hang up about sex and thinks it dirty. 

If that were the case though, shouldn't she have revealed this in MC years ago or before now?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Just dandy said:


> I do think however that she tries to paint me as some kind of perv because I want something more than missionary every six weeks. I'm not sure if that is deflection or if she really has a hang up about sex and thinks it dirty.
> 
> If that were the case though, shouldn't she have revealed this in MC years ago or before now?


I got the same thing from my wife for years and years after we were married. (But while dating the sex was great). She always had an excuse once we were married why she couldn't have sex when I initiated. She made lots of comments about men being pigs always wanting sex, etc. She seemed to have bought into a lot of the feminist crap about sex being all about domination of women, etc. She used a lot of language about sex which implied she saw it as dirty.

She refused MC several times when I asked her earlier in the marriage. She refused to discuss any sexual issues with me when I would try to talk to her.

She didn't tell me of her abuse until 29 years into the marriage when I told her I was ready to pull the plug on the marriage. Finally the consequences of being quiet were worse than letting a little bit out.

Your wife _should have_ been open to you, and certainly she had a safe place to do it in MC, to bring up whatever issues she might have. But, as with my wife, avoiding something painful about oneself is a strong motivator to not say anything.

The only way you can know what is going on is for her to tell you. You can try to keep asking her questions as if you are a reporter. If your wife is in a receptive mood, ask her what she thinks of something. Then dig deeper on that answer. Don't give her your opinion, and don't correct her on anything you think she got wrong. Keep asking her what she means by that, etc, the way a reporter would.

If you get lucky and she'll talk to you, she may reveal an awful lot.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> The idea is that she starts having sex out of obligation or love, finds that she enjoys having sex and then starts to want to have sex.


Yes, that IS the idea. But it has not in my experience become habit. Just excessive work that will yield temporary results and then back to the norm. And yes, resentment builds on both sides.


Ok - I feel like this thread is turning into me having a whining session. Which is why I was trying to keep it generalized at the beginning.

I came here to try to get my head around what I needed to do. I think I know now. Gotta sleep on it tonight….


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> I agree that's how the HD person sees it and that's the goal, but it doesn't often translate into reality with HD/LD couples. An LD person trying duty sex often ends up with more resentment than desire.


I believe this only has a chance of working if A) she DOES enjoy sex when it happens or B) She truly loves you and cares about your happiness. I can't understand how it could not work if BOTH of these conditions exist (that doesn't mean that it won't fail, just that I don't understand how it could!).

If neither of these conditions exist, then it isn't going to work.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

Thor, thanks again for the insightful input. My wifes language also indicates she thinks sex is dirty instead of beautiful. I'll try to work that into the conversation.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I believe this only has a chance of working if A) she DOES enjoy sex when it happens or B) She truly loves you and cares about your happiness. I can't understand how it could not work if BOTH of these conditions exist (that doesn't mean that it won't fail, just that I don't understand how it could!).
> 
> If neither of these conditions exist, then it isn't going to work.


I have responsive desire these days (at almost 47). I'm not thinking about it necessarily on my own, but my SO is a wonderful lover and I do enjoy sex and I do love him, so I'm always happy to have sex with him, even if I wasn't "in the mood" spontaneously on my own. My SO is also fantastic at making me feel sexy all the time especially when out of bed, and he's flirty and fun so sex is fun. So I get what you're saying.

But when you've got mountains of resentment between a LD and HD couple, those A and B conditions don't really exist. His wife is not enjoying their sexual encounters, even if she has an orgasm. She may love him, but also resents him for wanting her to do something she doesn't really want or enjoy. Their sex life is a minefield for both of them at this point. No amount of duty sex will become responsive desire under those conditions.


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## Just dandy (Sep 26, 2014)

norajane said:


> ?...No amount of duty sex will become responsive desire under those conditions.


True, although Buddy gives good advice if we can let go of the resentment and move on. I don't know if that is possible at this point or not. 

Thanks all for the input and helping me get some thoughts organized.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Just dandy said:


> Thor, thanks again for the insightful input. My wifes language also indicates she thinks sex is dirty instead of beautiful. I'll try to work that into the conversation.


Have you read the book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by Smith? He has some excellent tactics which can be applied to your conversations.

Fogging: Agreeing with a negative characterization of you. "Yes, I want sex a lot". You could even take it further, "You're right, it is piggish to want sex all the time". You would use this when she tries to shame you by saying "You're just a pig like all men who just want a woman for sex".

Negative Inquiry: Asking for more about what is wrong with you. "Do you think I am too focused on sex in a marriage?". Which can lead to questions like "What in sex seems dirty to you?".

The author describes how language is used against us by someone who is trying to manipulate. Sometimes it is pretty obscure when they do it, and they might not even realize their underlying goal is to shame or manipulate. Lots of people grow up learning this from their parents as normal.

The book may help you have productive conversations. It is a quick and easy read.


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## HDsocal (Nov 19, 2010)

Just dandy said:


> Although, I am starting to think that when the libido's are that different it will never really work. Even if LD increases frequency the passion won't be there because they will never have the yearn and hunger for that connection the same way an HD does. So it will always feel like its being down out of obligation - and the HD enjoys that less than the LD


yup.. followed by resentment, depression and sadness


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Just dandy said:


> Been browsing this site for a few months. I won't go into lengthy details as they are the same as many people on here. The basics are:
> 
> I'm HD man married to LD woman. Been through all of the emotions others have lamented about. Have considered all of the options one would consider when feeling that kind of anger, resentment, rejection, shame for 6 plus years.
> 
> ...



Speaking as a hubby, married for just over 15 years now, my wifee was LD from the very beginning to maybe the last 8 months or so, when she finally started eating better, losing a lot of weight, new clothes, braces, hair styles, and going from sex 1x month to maybe 2 - 3x week and she initiates most of the time now.

What I went through was painful and made me want to throw in the towel many times......

- read all the e-books recommended from TAM
- applied the 180, MMAP, etc.
- do chores without being asked
- helping without being asked
- being alpha male, not a jerk though
- have a plan and answers when she asks me things like, we should we have for dinner, what movie should we watch, etc.
- get things done and not just talk about it
- bought a small vib and pushed her boundaries
- put up with her falling asleep getting me all worked up
- put up with her infinite excuses not to be intimate and sexual
- listen to her a bit more and not try to solve all her challenges
- both took the 5 love languages quiz and found out she is acts of service were as I am physical, results on the fridge

You will jump through hoops for a LD spouse, to the point its not worth what little sex you will get out of the relationship. Basically, something like 90% effort from you for 10% sex effort from her.

LD's must realize that when married, they are not their own anymore. They must take care of their other halves needs as their own at that point, out of love and never duty or pity or chore sex. If it is that, why did they get married?

I've read why did the HD spouse marry the LD spouse then?

I counter that with, why did the LD spouse marry a sexually healthy spouse and not want sex? They should of stayed single....and not wasted and tormented the HD spouses life, for many years.

If the LD has past issues that need addressing, counseling, medication, etc., then they must deal with that before dumping it on the sexual healthy spouses plate.

HD spouse should never have to compromise their HD down to LD and the LD does little to no changing. That isn't what marriage is about. It is 50 / 50, equals, taking care of each other needs as your own, or nothing.

I've read posts were a LD wifee sexually starved her HD hubby for many years and then finally got it and wants sex. But it was too late and the HD hubby gave up and doesn't want her sexually anymore and stopped initiating.

I've read posts were HD wifee's found out their LD hubby's were secretly addicted to porn or seeing a co worker.

LD spouses will say their HD spouse always wants sex sex sex. But that is not the case. The HD spouse slowly stops initiating and sex is maybe once a month......but the LD spouse still complains all the HD spouse wants is sex sex sex.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> , those A and B conditions don't really exist.


If those conditions don't exist, then, as I said, "If neither of these conditions exist, then it isn't going to work".


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## Megabored11 (Aug 1, 2014)

Just dandy said:


> True, and that is pretty much our situation. I'm exhausted with the topic and don't even want to discuss it with her anymore.




God that sounds so much like my situation. I don't even waste my breath talking about it with her anymore.


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