# Really??!! really?



## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

I am new here and have had some great conversations with some of you all already! 
It s great community from hat I have seem, and for me needed. 

I really don't have anyone I can talk to. I struggle with embarrassing conversations and sex is one conversation I struggle with! But its easy here, you all dont know me  And you're a captive audience haha! 

So I am going to VENT!!

In short, I've been married 30 years, and 5 kids later my body looks like its birthed 5 kids. Thats on me. I am not large, but over weight and just not fit. Honestly, running my husbands office, homeschooling the kids and all their field trips/co-ops, etc, lesson plans/grading, grocery shipping, paying bills, etc... hasn't left me with much time, only exhausted nerves! Now with all but one child gone, and the office has slowed a lot, I have no more excuses!!

I am saying this because I know I am not sexy. I have never, ever felt I am pretty in the slightest. So its very hard for me to put myself out there, even with the man I love. 

I asked hubby Friday if he was working the next day, because he has worked Saturdays for months now, Even though he does, I always ask. 
He said he was and I said "oh, okay". He asked if that was okay, which was odd. He never asks that. If he feels he needs to work, he needs to work. thats it. 
I said that it was fine, I said just miss him and I know he is exhausted. I said it would be nice to take a 2 day stay at home vacation. No house work, no business work. Just us and movies! I was socked when he said that he wanted to stay home. He said, and I quote "I want you to know you mean more to me than working!" I physically teared up and hugged him. 

And thats exactly what we did. Watched movies. For two days. I needed the down time, I am also exhausted. I watch our grandson almost full time and on top of normal house wife/ office life, I get tired too. 
Our son who still lives at home, worked all weekend, leaving the house to us. I have already decided I won't initiate sex or intimacy. I am tired of being turned down. 
So I tried a different approach. I wore some short jammie shorts with a cute little t-shirt, nothing underneath of either, I kept positioning myself to give certain views... nothing. Is the man dead??!!! Again, I know I'm nothing to write home about, but come on!!

Anyhow, it was a nice weekend of resting and movie watching. 
Sometimes I struggle between being pissed/hurt and feeling selfish. Am I making all of this too much about me, to the point I am losing understanding for my husband? 
Should I have just enjoyed the weekend with him home and not have had expectations?

I feel as if I am getting to a place where I am obsessing.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> Should I have just enjoyed the weekend with him home and not have had expectations?


I think you have to put a new perspective on "expectations" in your marriage. If you want sex with your husband, you are probably going to have to just make it happen! Talk about it and let him know sex is extremely important for you and create a schedule. If you are frustrated that he gives work a priority, let him know that YOU need to be a priority. 

Now you also need to turn sex into something that he can enjoy as opposed to being a chore or something that gives him anxiety. Once you agree on a schedule you can both enjoy anticipating that moment and work on ways where you can facilitate intimacy by making yourself extremely easy to please. Don't insist on his pleasure, but let him know you are willing to please him if he wants it. Once he shows interest for something THEN you can be playful and start to tease him. 

DON'T try to tease and be playful with him before he is interested or else you are likely in for a world of hurt. Let him know you are interested in him being playful and teasing you and talk to him about ways he can EASILY do that for you. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

badsanta said:


> I think you have to put a new perspective on "expectations" in your marriage. If you want sex with your husband, you are probably going to have to just make it happen! Talk about it and let him know sex is extremely important for you and create a schedule. If you are frustrated that he gives work a priority, let him know that YOU need to be a priority.
> 
> Now you also need to turn sex into something that he can enjoy as opposed to being a chore or something that gives him anxiety. Once you agree on a schedule you can both enjoy anticipating that moment and work on ways where you can facilitate intimacy by making yourself extremely easy to please. Don't insist on his pleasure, but let him know you are willing to please him if he wants it. Once he shows interest for something THEN you can be playful and start to tease him.
> 
> ...


I have. Oh boy have I. I have thrown myself at him. I can undress in front of this man and he doesn't notice. 
Once we were watching a movie, and I asked him to lay back, and started giving him oral. I have never been a big fan, but like I said in other comments, about 4 years ago I tried a new thing... I gave in areas I never thought I would before 
This was one area. 
I have tried to schedule, I have talked within. I have tied him up. I have put honey on him, I have given him space, I have asked what he wants, I have told him I don't like feeling second to his job. I backed off after years of being told "not tonight" I don't like the lights on, I feel so ugly... but I have done it for him. 

I just dont know how else I can do this things, I have already tried so many variations. I want attention too. And not just sex. I wanton feel loved, valued and needed.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> I have. Oh boy have I. I have thrown myself at him. I can undress in front of this man and he doesn't notice.
> Once we were watching a movie, and I asked him to lay back, and started giving him oral. I have never been a big fan, but like I said in other comments, about 4 years ago I tried a new thing... I gave in areas I never thought I would before
> This was one area.
> I have tried to schedule, I have talked within. I have tied him up. I have put honey on him, I have given him space, I have asked what he wants, I have told him I don't like feeling second to his job. I backed off after years of being told "not tonight" I don't like the lights on, I feel so ugly... but I have done it for him.
> ...


Everything in your post is about "you trying to please him" while you are getting frustrated over "him not pleasing you."

My wife has repeated that she likes ice cream, but that at some point enough is enough and she does not want anymore ice cream. So metaphorically speaking I would continue to make her new dishes of ice cream and get extremely frustrated watching them get thrown away while I was desperate for ice cream myself and starving. 

So a few questions for you...

Instead of throwing yourself at your husband, is your husband willing to satisfy you when you need it? I discovered that my wife was always willing to give me a handjob or oral at any time, but I often refused it because she did not appear to be in the mood herself. As a result when I would refuse her, she felt as if I was the one rejecting her. 

I later discovered that when my wife was willing to please me, that it was not pity sex. She enjoyed pleasing me (just like perhaps you enjoy trying to please your husband) and when I allowed her to do that it would give her a huge boost to her confidence. Once she started feeling more confident, she started responding with her own desire for me. 

Perhaps I am projecting. But I used to throw myself at my wife just like you describe throwing yourself at your husband to no avail. Meanwhile I was oblivious to the fact that when I rejected her offer for just taking care of me that I was making her feel rejected. 

Perhaps the same dynamic might be playing out in your marriage but with reversed roles. 

So seriously? If you asked your husband for a long hug in the nude and to rub each other's back, what would he say? (assuming you have the house to yourselves)

Badsanta


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Mary what you have is passion, you still have that fire that is burning inside of you, this hunger (and yes it is a hunger) that desperately needs to be feed with the warm and touch of your husband...both of you had it once when you first started to date, yours was probably stronger than his even back then...but over time while his weened yours still stayed strong, maybe not as strong as it once but that hunger never left......you went out and sought knowledge to spice things up with very little in return, but you preserved you still craved him, you kept thinking and reading articles on improving your sexual desires and create a lust in him for you...none of us look the same as we did in our youth, life has a way of morphing us into someone new, but someone strong and beautiful none the less, and some of us still carry that passion. Speaking from experience, what i have discovered was that the more i tried the less receptive my offerings were taken....so i stopped cold turkey, at first she did not notice, i worked solely on me, i took time to explore my passions in photography and nature, and eventually she realized she missed those little things...but that is when it became a little to late for me....the years of rejection cause a scar in me that made me lost the lust i had for her sadly...now she wants me but i sadly don't feel the same...so be careful.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

Has he ever had his testosterone tested? I gotta ask. There are too many men who have low testosterone with frustrated wives. There are lots of other symptoms but libido is often the first to go


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi @Mary L and welcome to the forum, although I'm sorry you're here (if you know what I mean). I'm right there with you in that I'm 58yo and had kids and my bod looks like a 58yo with kids. I'm not particularly ugly, but I don't feel 20yo and in great physical shape, and even when I was young I didn't feel pretty. So I get ya. 

Here's one thing I've been noticing lately and I am not sure if it will apply to you, but it might. I am a pretty passionate, open-book, up-front kind of lady and so if I'm "in a mood" I will just say so. I figure guys can't read minds, so I'll just share right out loud and make it easy! And honestly, my mind loves my husband--he's truly a hottie (although I guarantee he would blush). Speaking my mind about his legs or this-or-that about him that I find attractive is one way of getting my own self interested...and letting him know I wouldn't turn him down.  But that may not be a way of getting HIM interested. My Beloved Hubby is a little more ... modest about these kind of things. He's not uninterested! It's just more like he finds the privacy between the two of us to be more stirring and passionate. 

Now from what I've read elsewhere, you have tried a number of things to try to get some sort of reaction out of your husband...and all have failed. But I wonder if maybe it's just a matter of difference? Like "he is who he is and this is not the way he gets interested." Not all of us speak right out loud. Not all of us are open book people. I don't know your hubby a bit so I can't even guess what he might be, but you DO know him. If he is "not the same as you" in the way that he likes to be enticed, then maybe it's worth a minute to think about that. If you entice him "your way" he a) may not even notice it and b) it will feel like a rejection to you. On the other hand, if you figure out what "his way" is (however that may be) maybe it's just not the way you'd do it.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Everything in your post is about "you trying to please him" while you are getting frustrated over "him not pleasing you."
> 
> My wife has repeated that she likes ice cream, but that at some point enough is enough and she does not want anymore ice cream. So metaphorically speaking I would continue to make her new dishes of ice cream and get extremely frustrated watching them get thrown away while I was desperate for ice cream myself and starving.
> 
> ...


"Instead of throwing yourself at your husband, is your husband willing to satisfy you when you need it?"
He says he is willing to. But he doesn't. And I have talked to him several times.

I have only denied my husband a few times over these last 30 years. If I am sick, or just exhausted. I dont mean normally exhausted, I mean I cant breath exhausted. But to hear him talk, it was all the time. I cant say why. I have went over this in my head and I cant see how he got that. I'm a classic over thinker and I also am okay with seeing my fault in something. I know I have many flaws!

I have offered oral so many times! I have talked about doing things that excite him, to restart things in the bedroom. I am game. Thats why I initiated the toys. I thought guys loved that stuff! Role playing and all. I just thought ALL guys liked it I mean he says he does, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

I do agree, its time for a new approach. I just am not sure what that is, That is where you all come in! I already have some great ideas.
I just need to stop ping ponging. I have always fought for our marriage. But now I get to where I dont have the strength or fight in me. Then I feel bad, I feel too needy, I start thinking Im making too much of things and I need to just be happy.
He doesn't cheat, beat me, he works hard. He truly a kind person. All who know him love him. He would do anything for anyone, kind of person.
Yes he's a slob, yes he could parent better, and see to my needs more.
If he had someone who thought like him, honestly they would probably have such happy life! The house would be a mess, laundry would get washed when there are no more towels,, there would be sex twice a year, but everyone would be happy.

Your question, If I were naked, getting a neck rub? Answer, I would be chilly getting a neck rub.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Mary what you have is passion, you still have that fire that is burning inside of you, this hunger (and yes it is a hunger) that desperately needs to be feed with the warm and touch of your husband...both of you had it once when you first started to date, yours was probably stronger than his even back then...but over time while his weened yours still stayed strong, maybe not as strong as it once but that hunger never left......you went out and sought knowledge to spice things up with very little in return, but you preserved you still craved him, you kept thinking and reading articles on improving your sexual desires and create a lust in him for you...none of us look the same as we did in our youth, life has a way of morphing us into someone new, but someone strong and beautiful none the less, and some of us still carry that passion. Speaking from experience, what i have discovered was that the more i tried the less receptive my offerings were taken....so i stopped cold turkey, at first she did not notice, i worked solely on me, i took time to explore my passions in photography and nature, and eventually she realized she missed those little things...but that is when it became a little to late for me....the years of rejection cause a scar in me that made me lost the lust i had for her sadly...now she wants me but i sadly don't feel the same...so be careful.


You are so close. 
Neither of us had much sexual desire in the beginning. I was okay with 2-3 times a week, and I was 21 when we met! I grew up in a very abusive home.
As time has went, I have done much growing and healing, I see relationships differently now. I feel about myself differently and want someone to WANT me. I don't want our relationship to be what its always been. And I think he feels I am just rocking the boat. Making problems where there isn't any. 
He is a great friend! He is my best friend! But I have grown to want more.
He has most certainly waned over the years. Which I guess happens with age. SO if you already start low, then your new low is very low! Whereas me, I see that intimacy is needed. Its an important part of marriage. I want to be more than his friend. 

I stopped trying all together to be intimate, have sex. I just cant anymore. Its too heartbreaking. 
This isn't the same, but when our son was in early elementary, he just couldn't read. He felt stupid and he felt he would never be able to do it. I tried every phonics curriculum I could get my hands on! Finally I found that he can't learn by a phonics approach. He was awhole word learner. Once I began that approach? He jumped 3 grade level where reading was concerned! 
Im not a quitter. And it doesn't have to be my way.
I want to be happy, I know who I am today. Thats not who I was yesterday and far from who I will be tomorrow. 
I am starting on my life. Without my husband. I dont mean divorce. 
Well, hopefully not. 
I am going to workout again, stick with it this time! I LOVE the guitar. I have a nice one and I've never learned to play. I am a hippie though and through. I am a bit odd, but I am a kind and loving person. I just need to take care of me. 
Apart of that is being on here. I need to know I have exhausted every effort. I know I can still learn and change myself.

Im just hoping I find that one thing that will make the difference. That one nugget. And if not? I will be that fit old lady that can play her guitar for the grandkids.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Mary L and welcome to the forum, although I'm sorry you're here (if you know what I mean). I'm right there with you in that I'm 58yo and had kids and my bod looks like a 58yo with kids. I'm not particularly ugly, but I don't feel 20yo and in great physical shape, and even when I was young I didn't feel pretty. So I get ya.
> 
> Here's one thing I've been noticing lately and I am not sure if it will apply to you, but it might. I am a pretty passionate, open-book, up-front kind of lady and so if I'm "in a mood" I will just say so. I figure guys can't read minds, so I'll just share right out loud and make it easy! And honestly, my mind loves my husband--he's truly a hottie (although I guarantee he would blush). Speaking my mind about his legs or this-or-that about him that I find attractive is one way of getting my own self interested...and letting him know I wouldn't turn him down.  But that may not be a way of getting HIM interested. My Beloved Hubby is a little more ... modest about these kind of things. He's not uninterested! It's just more like he finds the privacy between the two of us to be more stirring and passionate.
> 
> Now from what I've read elsewhere, you have tried a number of things to try to get some sort of reaction out of your husband...and all have failed. But I wonder if maybe it's just a matter of difference? Like "he is who he is and this is not the way he gets interested." Not all of us speak right out loud. Not all of us are open book people. I don't know your hubby a bit so I can't even guess what he might be, but you DO know him. If he is "not the same as you" in the way that he likes to be enticed, then maybe it's worth a minute to think about that. If you entice him "your way" he a) may not even notice it and b) it will feel like a rejection to you. On the other hand, if you figure out what "his way" is (however that may be) maybe it's just not the way you'd do it.


I know exactly what you mean. 
I feel I know him well. I eel I have commented in every manner I know of. I have tried things he says he likes. Idk 
I study people. It was something I began doing as a child. I didnt know why people lived certain ways, and I wanted that happiness. So I looked at the differences. You have a nice home? Oh you worked hard to get it! Okay, check! 
I have done this with my husband, If he reacts a certain way, I make mental notes. I ask questions, study him. I cant say he does the same, but if asked he would most likely say he does, 

There has to be SOMETHING that works for him!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

DallasCowboyFan said:


> Has he ever had his testosterone tested? I gotta ask. There are too many men who have low testosterone with frustrated wives. There are lots of other symptoms but libido is often the first to go


He has. It was normal, but I feel he needs to have it checked again.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

I agree with recheck testosterone. It cannot hurt. 
Also, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but you could try just starting to pleasure yourself in front of him. Put the same outfit you had on on the 2 day movie weekend, and if he does not get the hint, start touching yourself. The point will be clear and I would guess....he will not go very long just sitting there...and will jump in on the action.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> "Instead of throwing yourself at your husband, is your husband willing to satisfy you when you need it?"
> *He says he is willing to. But he doesn't.* And I have talked to him several times.


Can you be rather specific as to what he says he is willing to do that is just for you? For example various forms of outercourse like him touching you with his hands, holding a hand held massaging shower head for you while bathing together, giving you oral sex, kissing your neck, or anything that does not involve his penis...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I agree with recheck testosterone. It cannot hurt.
> Also, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but you could try just starting to pleasure yourself in front of him. Put the same outfit you had on on the 2 day movie weekend, and if he does not get the hint, start touching yourself. The point will be clear and I would guess....he will not go very long just sitting there...and will jump in on the action.


NOPE...this never worked with my husband...he would just laugh at me and walk out...making me feel humiliated and ridiculous. Men/people with higher to normal sex drives just cannot understand the minds of lower to no drive people. I know I can't understand LD women who turn their husbands down!!


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Mary L said:


> He has. It was normal, but I feel he needs to have it checked again.


When it’s tested again, get the actual number, then go online to decipher it. Sometimes a Dr. will tell you it’s “normal”, but it’s really bottom of the barrel “low normal”.

This is true of all tests we get from Drs.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I agree with recheck testosterone. It cannot hurt.
> Also, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but you could try just starting to pleasure yourself in front of him. Put the same outfit you had on on the 2 day movie weekend, and if he does not get the hint, start touching yourself. The point will be clear and I would guess....he will not go very long just sitting there...and will jump in on the action.


Soooo... I thought about doing this last night. 
THIS is where I need to get out of my own head. I have never done anything like this before. It’s embarrassing to think about doing, so I wonder how the actual act will come across. 
also... 52, 5 kids later... it’s just hard to feel sexy. I fee like everything’s is ... blah. Or worse!!
His lack of interests makes those thoughts worse. 
mine one hand I want to be the person who said “oh the hell with it! Let’s have fun” and on the other hand, I just want to cry thinking about it.
If I do and he doesn’t give me a second glance or doesn’t and doesn’t get turned on... then I will know.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> Soooo... I thought about doing this last night.
> THIS is where I need to get out of my own head. I have never done anything like this before. It’s embarrassing to think about doing, so I wonder how the actual act will come across.
> also... 52, 5 kids later... it’s just hard to feel sexy. I fee like everything’s is ... blah. Or worse!!
> His lack of interests makes those thoughts worse.
> ...


That's right, and just be ready for that possibility, because it can be devastating if you aren't ready for it. So imagine him just walking away from you, and imagine how you will respond. This is a great experiment, if you are brave enough to try it!!

And remember, even if he does walk away, I don't think he is rejecting YOU, I think he is rejecting SEX, so try not to take it personally. I hope it works out!!!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

badsanta said:


> Can you be rather specific as to what he says he is willing to do that is just for you? For example various forms of outercourse like him touching you with his hands, holding a hand held massaging shower head for you while bathing together, giving you oral sex, kissing your neck, or anything that does not involve his penis...


I basically told him that he has more than his manhood. I have desires and he needs to meet them. In short. The longer version was kinder. 
This is a new area for me, and I’m not super comfortable talking very frankly, even with with my husband. It’s a me issue, but he doesn’t help when he ignores what I do suggest 
I know it’s an area I need to grow and I have come a looooong way. It’s just not easy for me. I come across like I have all this confidence to people, but each step is so difficult!!
What I take from this is, I need to be more descriptive!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

OnTheFly said:


> When it’s tested again, get the actual number, then go online to decipher it. Sometimes a Dr. will tell you it’s “normal”, but it’s really bottom of the barrel “low normal”.
> 
> This is true of all tests we get from Drs.


I thought about this.
the last two blood work ups I‘be had, I was told everything is normal, but when I got a copy I thought my b12 was too low. I added a good supplement and noticed the difference.
I thought about getting his last blood work up, but it’s been so long already. He just needs some new done.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> NOPE...this never worked with my husband...he would just laugh at me and walk out...making me feel humiliated and ridiculous. Men/people with higher to normal sex drives just cannot understand the minds of lower to no drive people. I know I can't understand LD women who turn their husbands down!!


I don’t think my husband would laugh at me. I can see him saying, that looks fun, but not tonight. Which would still hurt.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> So imagine him just walking away from you, and imagine how you will respond.


Due to the past, if I do this I may just chuck a shoe at him and say never mind, before I ever start!!! Haha 

Kidding. I know what you mean. And you’re right!! 
That’s the hardest for me. Not taking it personally.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> Soooo... I thought about doing this last night.
> THIS is where I need to get out of my own head. I have never done anything like this before. It’s embarrassing to think about doing, so I wonder how the actual act will come across.


This one can be challenging. It is OK to first talk about it and ask him if he would be interested in watching you do that. 

He could have a lot of mixed emotions. Some good and bad. It could make him feel emasculated. Or it could be a eureka moment!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I agree with recheck testosterone. It cannot hurt.
> Also, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but you could try just starting to pleasure yourself in front of him. Put the same outfit you had on on the 2 day movie weekend, and if he does not get the hint, start touching yourself. The point will be clear and I would guess....he will not go very long just sitting there...and will jump in on the action.


SO I did a thing last night...

I took a bath, shaved (Im very OCD about this, I shave daily!) I have an oil blend I love and he has commented that he also likes it. It is basically coconut oil, with frankincense, clary sage, lavender and ylang ylang. I use it almost daily, or just coconut oil. Being 52, my skin drys very easily!
I went with the smell good oils last night  
I have a little short night I put on, with nothing else...
We were going to watch some tv. Once we both were seated, I gave him plenty of views. I couldn't bring myself to actually touch myself, I tried but... no. 
What I did do, is when he looked my way, I started rubbing my inner leg, high up and asked if he would like to touch me. 
Long and short, we spent the next 10 or so minutes just playing with each other, and the rest of the evening just snuggling while we watched our show.
Nothing more happened, but he enjoyed it and I enjoyed it. That was a good step for where we have been! 
We also talked a little this morning about making a "intimacy" schedule. @hubby recommended one, and I like how he thought it through. A little now, and let it grow each week.
He seems okay with making the schedule. But, we have also been here before. We will see! 
He knows he is a creature of habit, and he needs to make ME a habit. 
We had a really good talk! I would love for him to take control of this, remind me to put it together, but I know we are a very VERY long way from anything like that. I will say something tonight about our schedule. See if he would like to work on one with me  Maybe with a bowl of ice cream. Yes, sweets are a goody to my husbands heart!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> SO I did a thing last night...
> 
> I took a bath, shaved (Im very OCD about this, I shave daily!) I have an oil blend I love and he has commented that he also likes it. It is basically coconut oil, with frankincense, clary sage, lavender and ylang ylang. I use it almost daily, or just coconut oil. Being 52, my skin drys very easily!
> I went with the smell good oils last night
> ...


THIS is GREAT!!!! Good for you - I'm SO happy it was a success for you!!!
You are right, you can now build on this to get you both more comfortable meeting eachother's needs!

YAY!!!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> THIS is GREAT!!!! Good for you - I'm SO happy it was a success for you!!!
> You are right, you can now build on this to get you both more comfortable meeting eachother's needs!
> 
> YAY!!!


Let's just hope it doesn't die off. 
I dont want meet this with a downer attitude, and I am not, but we have been here. Not exactly this, but I have tried so many things! And they fade away. 
He seemed very interested, but I have really pulled back and I think he's noticed. I wonder if hes feeling he needs to step it up because I have pulled back? idk. We will see


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Mary L said:


> I don’t think my husband would laugh at me. I can see him saying, that looks fun, but not tonight. Which would still hurt.


I admit..I also don't understand the minds of LD partners, so my views are slanted to how i think. My point about touching yourself in front of him is two fold...One...you likely arouse him and he wants in on the action....two....he clearly sees that you have needs and desire that has to be taken care of. Worst case.....he does not jump in. Would it hurt...yes, but you already hurt, so need to do something or things will not change.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Mary L said:


> SO I did a thing last night...
> 
> I took a bath, shaved (Im very OCD about this, I shave daily!) I have an oil blend I love and he has commented that he also likes it. It is basically coconut oil, with frankincense, clary sage, lavender and ylang ylang. I use it almost daily, or just coconut oil. Being 52, my skin drys very easily!
> I went with the smell good oils last night
> ...


sometimes times its two baby steps forward one step back but the important thing is that you are trying...BTW as a teenager i think i burnt intense that smelled like you...lol
great update mary.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> NOPE...this never worked with my husband...


Damn your awesome.... That’s like every mans fantasy. I can’t believe his eyes didn’t roll in back his head as he spontaneously ejaculated.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Damn your awesome.... That’s like every mans fantasy. I can’t believe his eyes didn’t roll in back his head as he spontaneously ejaculated.


Lol!!! Well, clearly I'm not EVERY man's fantasy, or I'd be having SEX...

And his eyes DID roll back in his head...as he mocked me and walked out...
I'll NEVER do that again...Lol!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Lostinthought61 said:


> sometimes times its two baby steps forward one step back but the important thing is that you are trying...BTW as a teenager i think i burnt intense that smelled like you...lol
> great update mary.


Ya, I really am a true hippie, except I bathe and shave daily lol
I agree about the baby steps. I really am a patient person, I don't care how my family sees me! I know me...lol


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> Damn your awesome.... That’s like every mans fantasy. I can’t believe his eyes didn’t roll in back his head as he spontaneously ejaculated.


I have had this thought many times over the years, when I have tried something that didn't get the response I was hoping for. "I thought this is a mans locker room fantasy?!"
Some just aren't wired that way, for some odd reason! Or they are and somehow it died.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> I have had this thought many times over the years, when I have tried something that didn't get the response I was hoping for. "I thought this is a mans locker room fantasy?!"
> Some just aren't wired that way, for some odd reason! Or they are and somehow it died.


It's like I said, normal-high drive men cannot comprehend the thoughts and feelings that low drive men have about sex...and actually, that goes for women too!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Lol!!! Well, clearly I'm not EVERY man's fantasy, or I'd be having SEX...
> 
> And his eyes DID roll back in his head...as he mocked me and walked out...
> I'll NEVER do that again...Lol!


I am so sorry! I mean, I defiantly have a sexless marriage, but he's not a complete ass. How do you do it? I know how hurt and angry I have become with what I deal with.
I mean, yes there have been time my hubby has responded in hurtful ways, but he would never just laugh and walk out on a situation. Ignore it? yes! 
To add just mean to it? I'm really am sorry!!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> It's like I said, normal-high drive men cannot comprehend the thoughts and feelings that low drive men have about sex...and actually, that goes for women too!


Agreed. When I started looking into this, (and I know you already know this) but I would google "sexless marriage help" and it was all written about wives. UGH! I dug and found things, but this is more common than people like to discuss. Those percentages of men with ED, or performance issues were from 1908!!! kidding, but they were a while back. More and more men are having issues. 
I have my own thoughts as what a small factor of that is, I think its our food. But it sure isn't the whole picture! And whatever it is, my and your husband have hands darn it, even if they don't want or cant have sex!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> I am so sorry! I mean, I defiantly have a sexless marriage, but he's not a complete ass. How do you do it? I know how hurt and angry I have become with what I deal with.
> I mean, yes there have been time my hubby has responded in hurtful ways, but he would never just laugh and walk out on a situation. Ignore it? yes!
> To add just mean to it? I'm really am sorry!!


Oh, I'm angry, for sure...but for me, being angry is SILENCE and avoiding him...for months now.

That happened quite awhile ago, maybe a year, and it was before I gave up, so it DID hurt, ALOT...especially because I'm pretty shy (but I always try to please), and I am more comfortable being sexually submissive. Putting myself out there like that was scary, but I thought I was pleasing him, and to be slapped in the face like that (metaphorically) was terribly humiliating for me!

But you don't have to feel sorry for me - I don't!! It was a great learning experience for me (that he can't be trusted), and I would always rather know the truth of how he (or anyone) feels - even if it hurts!

What he's done with our sex life is ALL on HIM...HE has ruined it. Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do about it...I'm not there yet...but I WILL get there.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> Agreed. When I started looking into this, (and I know you already know this) but I would google "sexless marriage help" and it was all written about wives. UGH! I dug and found things, but this is more common than people like to discuss. Those percentages of men with ED, or performance issues were from 1908!!! kidding, but they were a while back. More and more men are having issues.
> I have my own thoughts as what a small factor of that is, I think its our food. But it sure isn't the whole picture! And whatever it is, my and your husband have hands darn it, even if they don't want or cant have sex!


That's exactly right!!! For ME, it's the attitude behind the refusal that tells the real story and matters the most!
I am like you - I'm completely accommodating and never said No to ANYTHING he wanted or needed to feel sexually excited with me. But in the end, that made NO difference with MY husband...I am happy for you that your husband is different, so you could have better results than me!!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Does your husband watch porn?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> He seems okay with making the schedule. But, we have also been here before. We will see!
> He knows he is a creature of habit, and he needs to make ME a habit.


THAT! 

...and you need to approach this with low expectations and allow yourselves to gradually build the tools that it takes to just make it happen. 

You did mention that the idea of self pleasure in front of your husband was challenging and that you could not do it. In the conversation afterwards did you mention to him that you wanted to give that a try to see how he might respond? If not you should and be aware that you can ask him to help you build the confidence that you need to make that happen. 

The one thing great about scheduling intimacy and talking about things, is that as a couple you can point out issues where you each have your own personal flaws (as in you pointing out that you struggle to get enough confidence to touch yourself in front of your husband). Then your husband can share his view of your struggle and help you with it. There is no telling what will develop out of that, and that is why intimacy in a long term relationship can suddenly begin to bloom!

Good luck, and don't give up! 

Also be patient and allow for some moments that will continue to be challenging. Hopefully your husband will agree to be patient and you two can create an environment of teamwork. 

Badsanta


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> Does your husband watch porn?


Are you asking ME or @Mary L...?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I'd also like to say regarding confidence and child bearing bodies.

Remember you are the only body your husband gets to see naked (unless he watches porn) and touch naked and experience. So even if you are shy about it let him see.

Another note while the oil may be an alluring smell from a distance up close and personal like oral it maybe way too strong. It can be hard to tell someone you love that their vajayjay stinks. My hubby has a shave oil that I love the smell of that he uses in his beard. But sometimes when I kiss him and get real close it is over powering.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Are you asking ME or @Mary L...?


Mary


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Oh, I'm angry, for sure...but for me, being angry is SILENCE and avoiding him...for months now.
> 
> That happened quite awhile ago, maybe a year, and it was before I gave up, so it DID hurt, ALOT...especially because I'm pretty shy (but I always try to please), and I am more comfortable being sexually submissive. Putting myself out there like that was scary, but I thought I was pleasing him, and to be slapped in the face like that (metaphorically) was terribly humiliating for me!
> 
> ...


"But you don't have to feel sorry for me - I don't!!"
Good for YOU!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> That's exactly right!!! For ME, it's the attitude behind the refusal that tells the real story and matters the most!
> I am like you - I'm completely accommodating and never said No to ANYTHING he wanted or needed to feel sexually excited with me. But in the end, that made NO difference with MY husband...I am happy for you that your husband is different, so you could have better results than me!!


Well, here is to hoping!! We are miles from where we need to be, and sometimes I just don't think he cares enough about it all to fight. In the end, it all is the same if they won't fight.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Does your husband watch porn?


No, he is actually pretty opposed to it.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I'd also like to say regarding confidence and child bearing bodies.
> 
> Remember you are the only body your husband gets to see naked (unless he watches porn) and touch naked and experience. So even if you are shy about it let him see.
> 
> Another note while the oil may be an alluring smell from a distance up close and personal like oral it maybe way too strong. It can be hard to tell someone you love that their vajayjay stinks. My hubby has a shave oil that I love the smell of that he uses in his beard. But sometimes when I kiss him and get real close it is over powering.


Good thoughts. One thing my husband is , is honest. He would say if it was too strong. But it is a great thought. 

I know I need to get over myself. I have also struggled with deep confidence/image issues my entire life. Deep! I am much better after years of self reflection, reading, praying!! lol But I am not where I want to be, by far! 
I do need to remember what you said, he really doesn't have anything to compare my body to. I obviously knew that, but hadn't really considered it. That actually gives me a lot of peace! Thank you for that.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Well then as I said for better or worse yours if the only body he gets to see and touch. I used to be very much against it too. I am over weight and self conscious. But at some point it dawned on me that I was denying my husband something he doesn't get anywhere else (he doesn't do porn either).

We installed a dimmable remote switch for our bedroom light. So when it's sexy time we can have the equivalent of candle light. But I've also gotten much bolder as well.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mary L said:


> I thought about this.
> the last two blood work ups I‘be had, I was told everything is normal, but when I got a copy I thought my b12 was too low. I added a good supplement and noticed the difference.
> I thought about getting his last blood work up, but it’s been so long already. He just needs some new done.


You might consider posting the results here (removing any patient-identifying data first). Some of us may be experts at "reading" blood tests, because we've had to deal with some condition or other. There's a lot of stuff I know about because I have a mild bone marrow cancer (not generally life-shortening so don't worry, I'm pretty much ok). You also want to look for trends over time. 

Testosterone is just one thing, and it can vary throughout the day (so very important with sequential lab work to have it done at the same time of day). Hematocrit can be an issue too. And not related to bloodwork, but undiagnosed depression will affect sexuality. Some people can hide depression fairly well.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well then as I said for better or worse yours if the only body he gets to see and touch. I used to be very much against it too. I am over weight and self conscious. But at some point it dawned on me that I was denying my husband something he doesn't get anywhere else (he doesn't do porn either).
> 
> We installed a dimmable remote switch for our bedroom light. So when it's sexy time we can have the equivalent of candle light. But I've also gotten much bolder as well.


I completely agree!! Now, if I can get the rest of me to follow my head. Mentally I agree with all of it. 
I know he’s said before that he enjoys looking at my body. It’s not like he never sees me, but the little bit I have been able to give, is still so hard for me. Baby steps! I couldn’t imagine feeling at ease in this area. I know I will be one day, because I think it’s needed. For various reasons.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> I completely agree!! Now, if I can get the rest of me to follow my head. Mentally I agree with all of it.
> I know he’s said before that he enjoys looking at my body. It’s not like he never sees me, but the little bit I have been able to give, is still so hard for me. Baby steps! I couldn’t imagine feeling at ease in this area. I know I will be one day, because I think it’s needed. For various reasons.


I also think if he was wanting sex (or at least sexual touching) with you 2-3 times a week, you would get over your insecurities pretty quickly. The problem with struggling with these issues is that they need to be challenged with another person in order to really fight them...so without physical intimacy, it happens much more slowly.

Yet another reason why sex is so important and GREAT!! Lol!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> You might consider posting the results here (removing any patient-identifying data first). Some of us may be experts at "reading" blood tests, because we've had to deal with some condition or other. There's a lot of stuff I know about because I have a mild bone marrow cancer (not generally life-shortening so don't worry, I'm pretty much ok). You also want to look for trends over time.
> 
> Testosterone is just one thing, and it can vary throughout the day (so very important with sequential lab work to have it done at the same time of day). Hematocrit can be an issue too. And not related to bloodwork, but undiagnosed depression will affect sexuality. Some people can hide depression fairly well.


Oh that would be great to have opinion about the blood work up. 
I have thought about depression over the years. I think (I know, I’m going to sound like THAT person) but I really do think that he deals with ADD. We’ve tried different herbal supplements over the years that has helped, not enough though. And we’ve even noticed a difference following a certain diet structure. But I think he gets very overwhelmed easily. He has a really hard time balancing different areas in his life.
You have seen those photos where men mentally take out ONE box and can just focus on that one thing, women are like spaghetti strings all over the place, inter-weaving? Now this scenario doesn’t fit every man and woman, but I think it’s pretty common that that’s how men think/process versus women think/process. 
I believe my husband has difficulty putting a box back and getting another box out. With that box in front of him, he can’t even think about any of the other boxes that line the wall, let alone glance up at one. He gets overwhelmed then mentally checks out. 
Obviously that’s just my opinion after being with him for 31 years, and I would absolutely love for him to see somebody about this. But it hasn’t happened yet! LOL


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I also think if he was wanting sex (or at least sexual touching) with you 2-3 times a week, you would get over your insecurities pretty quickly. The problem with struggling with these issues is that they need to be challenged with another person in order to really fight them...so without physical intimacy, it happens much more slowly.
> 
> Yet another reason why sex is so important and GREAT!! Lol!


Right??!! 
it’s a little hard to have any level of self-confidence when you feel that the most intimate and pleasurable thing you can do with your spouse, he shys away from.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Mary L said:


> I am going to workout again, stick with it this time! I LOVE the guitar. I have a nice one and I've never learned to play. I am a hippie though and through. I am a bit odd, but I am a kind and loving person. I just need to take care of me. Apart of that is being on here. I need to know I have exhausted every effort. I know I can still learn and change myself.


I don't know if this will mean anything... and admittedly, I'm not feeling my usual self this week, so I did hesitate about even posting on your thread. What you wrote here could be how I might have approached something in the past. And while with certain things that I set my mind to, I do what is needed, there are other times where I express broad statements that lack the follow-through. Actions speak louder than words, and my suggestion is to just try one thing. Rather than '...stick with it this time!' How about 'Today I will do one thing for my fitness' or whatever it is. This would be my reservation with scheduling intimacy. You wrote that your husband is a creature of habit, but are you? My suggestion would be to just do one thing today. It could be an open conversation, it could be intimacy or flirtation. 

I can be quite blunt / openly flirtatious about sex. My husband is good with this; however, he demonstrates attraction in moments when I wouldn't expect - that comes from having space between the notes  Granted, sometimes we're both just silly in our approach. Laughter works too.

Confidence is sexy. And you said you have made progress in yourself for this. Good job.

Maybe I've not read intently enough, but what has your husband's approach to intimacy and sex been with you? Also you mentioned it's hard for you to discuss sex. What about for him? And is there any understanding of each others sexual needs?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Mary L said:


> I completely agree!! Now, if I can get the rest of me to follow my head. Mentally I agree with all of it.
> I know he’s said before that he enjoys looking at my body. It’s not like he never sees me, but the little bit I have been able to give, is still so hard for me. Baby steps! I couldn’t imagine feeling at ease in this area. I know I will be one day, because I think it’s needed. For various reasons.


This can be a catch-22 scenario. He has expressed that he enjoys seeing you naked. You find it hard to give yourself fully - being vulnerable in certain ways. While I understand you may feel more confident if he responded differently towards you; he also might respond differently towards you if there was greater openness (nakedness, for example!) from you. Try not to point the finger of blame his way, as that's not going to help either of you. Both of you need to want things to change, then follow through, for any shift in the dynamic to occur.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> I don't know if this will mean anything... and admittedly, I'm not feeling my usual self this week, so I did hesitate about even posting on your thread. What you wrote here could be how I might have approached something in the past. And while with certain things that I set my mind to, I do what is needed, there are other times where I express broad statements that lack the follow-through. Actions speak louder than words, and my suggestion is to just try one thing. Rather than '...stick with it this time!' How about 'Today I will do one thing for my fitness' or whatever it is. This would be my reservation with scheduling intimacy. You wrote that your husband is a creature of habit, but are you? My suggestion would be to just do one thing today. It could be an open conversation, it could be intimacy or flirtation.
> 
> I can be quite blunt / openly flirtatious about sex. My husband is good with this; however, he demonstrates attraction in moments when I wouldn't expect - that comes from having space between the notes  Granted, sometimes we're both just silly in our approach. Laughter works too.
> 
> ...


I guess I can be a creature of habit, but I’m also real big on growth and change.
I would have to write a book to try to explain all the various things that I have done to try to bring us closer. Even scheduling intimacy I have tried, but I have not tried it with the baby step approach. For instance this week maybe just spending five or 10 minutes snuggling when we go to bed. And then maybe next week we can add some kissing and rubbing to that. The main reason why I think this may work, is because my husband gets extremely overwhelmed at the slightest bit of change. So for him going to bed is just going to bed. He’s never been a snuggler in bed, he doesn’t like to be touched when he sleeps because he doesn’t sleep well. So this would be really more for him than me. The main reason why I think this may work, is because my husband gets extremely overwhelmed at the slightest bit of change. So for him going to bed is just going to bed. lol He’s never been a snuggle her in bed, he doesn’t like to be touched when he sleeps because he doesn’t sleep well, he wakes easily. So this would be really more for him than me.
I have to really watch myself because I’m a jump in and get it all done kind of person. When I see a need for change, I want to go 100% which usually blows everybody in my family away. No matter what it is, they need slow steps.
I guess if you can picture a speedboat make a turn, that’s me. If you can picture a great big cruise liner making a turn, that’s my husband.
The other night we had a really good conversation on his need for visualization. He knows it’s an area I’ve gotten a lot better at, but it’s still a hangup for me. He also knows I need intimacy before sex. And that’s something that’s extremely difficult for him because intimacy comes after sex for him. 
So to answer your question about my husbands approach? He gets horny every 3 to 5 months and when we go to bed he just thinks that we’re going to have sex. Kiss for a minute then do the deed! That’s pretty much his game plan. 😂Which obviously doesn’t work for me. Then he’s confused because he feels that I spent four months trying to get in his pants, and he’s finally willing to give it away and I back off.
I didn’t know how to talk with him in past years. I would get frustrated and during frustration I would let him know what I need from him and what he’s not doing right in our relationship. He would get frustrated feeing he can’t do enough, and this we lived in a pool of impasses!! But now I’m being way more direct. I am getting better and better about talking openly about intimate details of our sex life. What I need and why I need it. And I’m setting a part time that we can actually talk. Usually Sundays work best because there’s no work, he doesn’t have the pressures from a workday.

Sorry this is an extremely long reply.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> I guess if you can picture a speedboat make a turn, that’s me. If you can picture a great big cruise liner making a turn, that’s my husband.


THIS is BRILLIANT and SO funny to me, because I'm a speedboat too (once I make a decision about something, that is)!!!!

I think it's terrific that you are starting to develop enough confidence to be direct about what you need! You also seem to be very aware of what you are feeling and why, and what needs to be done to help yourself grow!!

I REALLY admire you and your approach to what you are going through - YOU GO GIRL!!!!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Aww. Well, would he open up if he had any reason he didn't want sex, such as having trouble with erections? I had a "sort of" bf for 3 years who wouldn't come out and tell me about it. The other thing is he might have gotten addicted to porn or something like that, which can make some people have trouble functioning because they get "stuck" on their favorite scenarios that they like to watch and get off to and then it can't be replilcated in real life. Not saying everyone who watches it, that happens to, but it is a thing. 

I am happy for you that he obviously still loves you, though, and wants to spend time with you. Now that you have time, why not start walking and maybe diet for maybe 2 months and lose just a few pounds and bring your energy level up. You could join Curves which is only a quick 20-minute workout. With dieting, you can lose about 5 pounds the first week when your have not been doing exercise or diet at all. Actually, I once set a record and lost 10, but I was doing more than just Curves. 

And just keep doing what you did with putting on something revealing and sexy. Show some boob (sorry ) because you know that's what men like. Buy a push-up bra and start wearing something just around the house when he comes home. You don't have to pressure him at all, but you can cuddle up and watch tv together, and eventually, if he's got any life left in him, and considering he really sounds like he loves you, he will either start feeling sexy or he will have to explain himself. 

I bet it was just awkward for him when you put on the shorties and he hadn't been in that "mode" for awhile or he'd have done something about it, but don't stop because now he's had a day or two to think about the possibilities, I bet if you just keep that up, things will turn around for you. Good luck!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> This can be a catch-22 scenario. He has expressed that he enjoys seeing you naked. You find it hard to give yourself fully - being vulnerable in certain ways. While I understand you may feel more confident if he responded differently towards you; he also might respond differently towards you if there was greater openness (nakedness, for example!) from you. Try not to point the finger of blame his way, as that's not going to help either of you. Both of you need to want things to change, then follow through, for any shift in the dynamic to occur.


I’m not saying there’s not times I don’t get frustrated and just point the finger at him and say, you need to stop this. Or I guess in our case you need to Revit up LOL. But for the most part I really am a very understanding person. I understand that his work has a lot of stress, I believe he has some form of ADD or some thing. He’s a loving man in so many ways. And I also know I’ve had a lot of pretentious hangups over the years.


LisaDiane said:


> THIS is BRILLIANT and SO funny to me, because I'm a speedboat too (once I make a decision about something, that is)!!!!
> 
> I think it's terrific that you are starting to develop enough confidence to be direct about what you need! You also seem to be very aware of what you are feeling and why, and what needs to be done to help yourself grow!!
> 
> I REALLY admire you and your approach to what you are going through - YOU GO GIRL!!!!


you just made my day!!!! ❤🥰
It’s been an emotional day for me for political/Covid/sexual/lack of sleep reasons 😂😂
For whatever reason, I’ve always been pretty good at knowing WHY I feel or act a certain way. I’ve gotten more tuned into that over the years. Its not always a super power hahaha.
the self confidence is definitely with shaky knees!! I still feel fat and ugly! But I’m changing. Years ago I was so bad, I wouldnt walk out of my home without makeup. Now? I don’t own makeup.I just do t like how it feels on, and I don’t really care enough anymore. 
Thanks again, you really did make my day


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> you just made my day!!!! ❤🥰
> It’s been an emotional day for me for political/Covid/sexual/lack of sleep reasons 😂😂
> For whatever reason, I’ve always been pretty good at knowing WHY I feel or act a certain way. I’ve gotten more tuned into that over the years. Its not always a super power hahaha.
> *the self confidence is definitely with shaky knees!! I still feel fat and ugly!* But I’m changing. Years ago I was so bad, I wouldnt walk out of my home without makeup. Now? I don’t own makeup.I just do t like how it feels on, and I don’t really care enough anymore.
> Thanks again, you really did make my day


You are very welcome...you are easy to please if that made your day!! (which makes you awesome!)

HANG IN THERE, you are like a super-woman to ME...I failed in my situation with my husband and have given up (without bitterness, but for good reason), and I SO MUCH want you to succeed and be happy!!

As for the bolded...I know EXACTLY how you feel - I am starting to think we are kindred spirits!!!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> You are very welcome...you are easy to please if that made your day!! (which makes you awesome!)
> 
> HANG IN THERE, you are like a super-woman to ME...I failed in my situation with my husband and have given up (without bitterness, but for good reason), and I SO MUCH want you to succeed and be happy!!
> 
> As for the bolded...I know EXACTLY how you feel - I am starting to think we are kindred spirits!!!


I absolutely love this!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> You are very welcome...you are easy to please if that made your day!! (which makes you awesome!)
> 
> HANG IN THERE, you are like a super-woman to ME...I failed in my situation with my husband and have given up (without bitterness, but for good reason), and I SO MUCH want you to succeed and be happy!!
> 
> As for the bolded...I know EXACTLY how you feel - I am starting to think we are kindred spirits!!!


How is it that you and Mary can be kindred spirits if you have given up and she has not? 

I admire Mary because she is someone still willing to try and do whatever it takes to move forwards and have a better relationship. That takes a tremendous amount of courage and humility for which we should all applaud Mary and be very supportive.

You @LisaDiane are in no what way the same from my perspective. It is as if you have resigned your marriage to failure and resentment by accepting that you are unwanted by your husband sexually. Why are you here? Do you even want to work on your marriage? Or are you trying to validate your thoughts that your marriage is impossible to to work on anymore? 

Are you wanting to help yourself by offering support to others? How can you help others if you can't help yourself? 

I get angry because I think you have it in yourself to be more like Mary. Perhaps it is Mary that is the one that might actually be able to help you! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

badsanta said:


> I get angry because I think you have it in yourself to be more like Mary. Perhaps it is Mary that is the one that might actually be able to help you!


Reading Lisa's post to Mary, I do not interpret this the way you have at all. The part Lisa was feeling kindred about was, as she said, the bolded: *the self confidence is definitely with shaky knees!! I still feel fat and ugly! *

Also, Lisa is actually cheering Mary on from the sidelines without bitterness of her own situation; stating that she has given up on her own particular circumstance but is encouraging for Mary to experience a different outcome. To me, that demonstrates Lisa's empathy. Lisa and Mary are connecting through relating in some areas, and sharing through experience. And of the various words exchanged across this format, it can be refreshing to read that another has brightened the other's day.

On a slightly separate note Lisa, I meant it when I said you are a natural beauty. I hope that you can internalize that to see yourself how others might and build your confidence in other ways.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

badsanta said:


> Are you wanting to help yourself by offering support to others? How can you help others if you can't help yourself?


While this might be your way of encouraging Lisa through provoking questions, I wish to advocate that Lisa is a valued member of TAM. From what I have read of Lisa's posts, she has come to terms with her situation and has expressed that she is considering where to from here. I trust that Lisa, as grown folk, has gone through certain places in the dynamic of her marriage to come to that point. It's a different scenario if Lisa and her husband were trying to get to a different place together; but this is not what has been expressed. Lisa, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

There's plenty of divorced people on TAM who bring much value from their experiences - including the value of knowing when something is not going to change and navigating that.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

But I'll step aside now, and back to Mary.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> While this might be your way of encouraging Lisa through provoking questions, I wish to advocate that Lisa is a valued member of TAM.


I agree and acknowledge that there is something about me that is really triggered by the notion of a spouse just giving up on a marriage. I almost saw that happen in my own marriage with my wife giving up on me, but I still managed to reconnect with that part that was still willing to try. It is a fight, and it is one that you have to wake up each day and choose to work towards in a positive way.

I am hoping that since Mary and Lisa empathize with each other in much better and meaningful ways that I am able to do, that Mary can not only help herself, but also be the one to help Lisa. In doing so both Mary and Lisa may be able to better see themselves and mutually benefit. As I feel that has happened for me here on TAM.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

badsanta said:


> I agree and acknowledge that there is something about me that is really triggered by the notion of a spouse just giving up on a marriage. I almost saw that happen in my own marriage with my wife giving up on me, but I still managed to reconnect with that part that was still willing to try. It is a fight, and it is one that you have to wake up each day and choose to work towards in a positive way.
> 
> I am hoping that since Mary and Lisa empathize with each other in much better and meaningful ways that I am able to do, that Mary can not only help herself, but also be the one to help Lisa. In doing so both Mary and Lisa may be able to better see themselves and mutually benefit. As I feel that has happened for me here on TAM.


Well, I do not presume that Lisa is just 'giving up' on her marriage. Based on what she has shared, that wording simplifies and undermines what she has experienced. Also, for any change to occur, it takes _both_ in the marriage. I don't agree that one has to wake up each day and choose to work towards marriage in a positive way; if the other half of the dynamic is not interested / invested / committed in also doing so. To each their own. I think at the heart of this, is that you being triggered is not Lisa's problem.

Mary, sorry for the detour on your thread.


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> Well, I do not presume that Lisa is just 'giving up' on her marriage. Based on what she has shared, that wording simplifies and undermines what she has experienced. Also, for any change to occur, it takes _both_ in the marriage. I don't agree that one has to wake up each day and choose to work towards marriage in a positive way; if the other half of the dynamic is not interested / invested / committed in also doing so. To each their own. I think at the heart of this, is that you being triggered is not Lisa's problem.
> 
> Mary, sorry for the detour on your thread.


You all are good. 
it’s been just a busy weekend, I’m just catching up on posts.
I think if I can encourage anyone in anyway, I would consider it an honor, but I am not the sharpest tool in the shed!! Haha 
I also have (already) received so much help and encouragement on here. 
we all are learning and growing! That’s for sure n


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

badsanta said:


> How is it that you and Mary can be kindred spirits if you have given up and she has not?
> 
> I admire Mary because she is someone still willing to try and do whatever it takes to move forwards and have a better relationship. That takes a tremendous amount of courage and humility for which we should all applaud Mary and be very supportive.
> 
> ...


This HURT my feelings.

If you could post this to me, it's clear that you continue to stubbornly REFUSE to understand or LISTEN to anything I've written. No matter how many times I have tried to open your mind to the prospect that YOUR ideas don't fit ALL situations, you simply refuse to consider any other possibilities than what YOU believe the problem is.

And your lack of empathy for my feelings and your judgement of me with so little knowledge of my situation or what I've already done to try to restore my sex life and save my marriage shows me that you are NOT someone I can talk to about ME and what is happening in MY life.

I appreciate you backing off a little in your subsequent reply to @heartsbeating.

I still find your contributions to the discussions here to be very interesting, thought-provoking, and valuable, and I am always happy to read them


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

heartsbeating said:


> Well, I do not presume that Lisa is just 'giving up' on her marriage. Based on what she has shared, that wording simplifies and undermines what she has experienced. Also, for any change to occur, it takes _both_ in the marriage. I don't agree that one has to wake up each day and choose to work towards marriage in a positive way; if the other half of the dynamic is not interested / invested / committed in also doing so. To each their own. I think at the heart of this, is that you being triggered is not Lisa's problem.
> 
> Mary, sorry for the detour on your thread.


THANK YOU very much for this and your other post!


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## Mary L (Jun 26, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> This HURT my feelings.
> 
> If you could post this to me, it's clear that you continue to stubbornly REFUSE to understand or LISTEN to anything I've written. No matter how many times I have tried to open your mind to the prospect that YOUR ideas don't fit ALL situations, you simply refuse to consider any other possibilities than what YOU believe the problem is.
> 
> ...


There were things said and without knowing anyone, I want to step back from it and let you all handle it.

I definitely think we have so many similar things in many ways, and I understand giving up. I have been there! Its why I'm on here. I really want to save my marriage as best I can.
Honestly, I have given up on that passionate, romantic marriage. I will settle for sex once a month and someone who pretends to get me! LOL.!! Im kidding, but sometimes I feel as if that would be the only sane thing to expect at this stage in the game.
I also at times feel that my expectations are too high for who he is. Idk... maybe the resolve is somewhere in the middle. I just keep changing my end, making it close to his... thus making the middle way closer to his side!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mary L said:


> *Its why I'm on here. I really want to save my marriage as best I can.*


I remember an important lesson that I learned while doing RCIA at church. The priest said that in life no one can help you unless you first ask for help. He said that god works that way in that until someone asks for his help that they generally will not receive it. 

That was a big step for me in my marriage. It is one thing to feel like you need help, get frustrated and look for things to blame. Then perhaps as nothing pans out in terms of finding something to blame, perhaps then we look for a solution to just fix things ourselves. It is a completely different thing to step back and admit you just need help, especially to a spouse. 

I do recall that things turned around in my marriage when I stopped blaming my spouse for not meeting my needs and wants and I transitioned to asking her to help me. I stopped blaming her for misunderstanding me and started thanking her for the things that helped.

Wishing you the best, 
Badsanta

PS: I think I have reached a point that I need to tale another break from TAM for a while.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mary L said:


> There were things said and without knowing anyone, I want to step back from it and let you all handle it.
> 
> I definitely think we have so many similar things in many ways, and I understand giving up. I have been there! Its why I'm on here. I really want to save my marriage as best I can.
> Honestly, I have given up on that passionate, romantic marriage. I will settle for sex once a month and someone who pretends to get me! LOL.!! Im kidding, but sometimes I feel as if that would be the only sane thing to expect at this stage in the game.
> I also at times feel that my expectations are too high for who he is. Idk... maybe the resolve is somewhere in the middle. I just keep changing my end, making it close to his... thus making the middle way closer to his side!


NO WORRIES!!! None of that had anything to do with YOU
Keep trying...you will know when you've reached your limit and ability to keep compromising. And you never know what could cause your husband to respond and understand, and make his own changes to meet your needs!

Whichever path you end up on, you will have support and understanding from posters on here (like ME!!)!!


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