# communication is still open but.....



## cami (Jun 13, 2010)

So H and I were talking a lot the past week. We have been having some great serious discussions about what went wrong in our marriage and what went right. We even expanded some horizons about SF and talked a great deal about friendship lacking.

So last night, he called and we met up and talked some more (until 1:30). Now I'm just back to confusion and devastation. I don't know what to really think.

He recognizes that I am trying very hard to make changes in myself that will better me as a person. He knows that I have always and will always love him and said so. He knows that I am truly regretful for my actions and that I have never told him any other lies except dealing with the money situation that made him finally leave.

BUT he also says that our friendship disappeared, that I didn't pay enough attention to him and that I lacked passion for life that he really wants. He says that he wants to get younger and it seems like I want to grow older. Well, I'm 43 and growing older, enjoying grandchildren and peace and quiet on occassion is something that I do enjoy. BUT I didn't want to do that without him.

He says that I have my friend because I told him that I really didn't want to lose my friend, my best friend. But that he can't be my best friend at this point because he just can't trust me right now. He says that the trust will come and we can be best friends. If we decide at that point to date or have some type of relationship like that, then so be it, but he is not going to say yes and he is not going to say no until we see what happens along the way.

I am still going to work on myself and make changes to be a better person. I am still going to work through the MB program and my counselor and make every attempt to show him my love, respect, admiration and to hope that he will change his mind and see that we CAN make this work.

He did say that the piece of paper (marriage liscence) is not something he can see ever wanting again at this point. He just doesn't think he wants to be married. But he is open to a relationship if we choose to do that in the future once we work out our new relationship. EDITED TO ADD THIS: But here's the thing...all along he has never told me flat out that he wants a divorce. He has said he is done fighting, he is tired of trying...when I asked him point blank is this heading to divorce he said it was a "good possibility" when I asked him just the other day when he was going to file because I explained that I did not want a divorce, I will not fight him on it because I love him and want him to be happy, but since I do not want it I am not going to pay for it....he said that "well, I won't be able to come up with that kind of money til at least the middle of 2011 or even late 2011." But he has never flat out told me, I want a divorce. My counselor says that this is odd in that most people, especially men, when they decide that they want a divorce they are more than happy to tell the spouse this information and anyone else who will listen. According to his mom and a few friends that I know he has talked with, he has not said it to them in that way either...just says the same things to them that he does to me. EDIT ENDS HERE.

Please does anyone have any guidance at this point? I'm so lost. I want the changes to be a better person. But I want the love of my life as well. I also want to get back to him being my best friend because I miss him in that aspect just as much if not more than I miss him as my H. 

He is still living with his mom, but says that he is saving to move out at some point. And he says that he will not be able to afford to file to "get rid of that paper" until mid-2011 at the earliest. So that gives me some time in one aspect, but not enough time in the world in another but I do need some guidance. I need a reality check here about what I should and should not do.

Oh and he said I can call, text, email him ANYTIME I want for ANY reason....whether that is to talk about our life together, the weather or even another man, I can call him and he will be there because he is my friend. But he wanted me to know, if he tells me he is busy at that point, I have to accept that and wait for him to get back to me. He promised he WILL get back to me each and every time. So he is still keeping that communication open between us. Is that a good thing? In my mind it is, but I just want some verification that I'm not thinking wrong.I forgot to add. 

He also told me that I will always be welcome in his home and his family's homes no matter what.

He said that we CAN continue to see each other from time to time. We CAN continue to talk all the time, no problem. We CAN see where that leads, but he WANTS our friendship first and the rest to be secondary. And he wants me to tell him anytime I'm uncomfortable with anything regarding the newfound dynamic between the two of us so that we can discuss it and decide what to do about it or if it is really not going to be a problem. But, under no circumstances, will he say that this will or will not lead to anything..he will not make that kind of commitment when he just doesn't know if that will or won't happen and he doesn't want me mislead in that aspect.

I do know that I really have missed the conversations like the ones we have been having for the past week or so. Where we REALLY discuss things and hear what each other is saying. That is really nice to be back to that part at least.


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## cami (Jun 13, 2010)

Please...does anyone have anything to offer me??


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## pochael (Apr 12, 2010)

I did... but you have not gotten back to me.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, the red flags to me sound like he'll have enough money to get his own place and do his own thing, but not enough money to set you free if he doesn't want you.

I know a man that did that to his wife, strung her along and lived with him mom for FIVE years and she willingly went along with it. He's building a house for him and another woman to move into, and his wife has no clue that is what he is doing. She's kept hope for this long and will be devastated when she finds out he had no intention on maintaining any type of relationship with her. 

Think about it, best friends first, then maybe dating, all up to him to decide on and lead you on about. What is he doing for you? He'll be there for you if you want to talk about another man?

I know he is the love of you life and you don't want to lose him. I also see a man that is bluntly telling you that he doesn't love you for who you are by telling you "that I lacked passion for life that he really wants. He says that he wants to get younger and it seems like I want to grow older. Well, I'm 43 and growing older, enjoying grandchildren and peace and quiet on occassion is something that I do enjoy." 

As long as you are trying to work it out and he is doing his thing, dating, pretending to be your best friend, you will be on his string and I don't see it ending well for you.

Men want what they can't have, not someone that throws themselves at their feet saying "Don't leave me" in a needy, not very attractive way.

Get on with your life. Be friendly, loving, etc... like you said you were doing, but show him you are a strong, independent woman that wants someone that will love her for HER, and right now, he's not it. When he notices the distance, and that you seem HAPPY, he'll be the one that starts pursuing you, or he will end it as it seems where he is heading towards now, but where you are now is just going to be hell for you while you sit, wait, and wonder and you don't deserve to live your life that way.


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## cami (Jun 13, 2010)

HappyHer, 

Here's my thing with all of this. I asked him if he was having an affair point blank when he was here visitng. He said he didn't understand why everyone keeps saying that and he just showed me the stuff. I don't know that he would have volunteered it without me saying that or not. But I do believe him. I really do. I know that may sound crazy to alot of you....but I still have that faith in him in that manner.

He has NOT been on dates as of yet. He states that he is not looking and he has been working so much lately that I doubt he could have had time to look anyhow. They have been very busy! 

We had that best friend thing going for a long time. It is my fault as much as his that we lost it. I DO know that I want my best friend back, even if we do not end up with each other....I miss my friendship with him. That's the thing.

I am getting on with my life as best I can. I am making changes that make me a better person and make ME feel good. So regardless of how this turns out, I can be the me I want to be. That will not change.

I do know that I have spoken with him about a change or two that has occured and he has said, "don't tell me, show me". So I called him tonight and he is in the truck out of town, but we are going to get together and go for a walk at the lake. That will be nice, it is one of the things that we used to do long ago. I miss those types of things. He agreed that he misses them too. So I'm throwing in little things that are fun, that I used to enjoy and he did too, that give us time to talk and get to know the persons we are today vs who we were then. I'm hoping the conversation brings us closer as friends even if it doesn't bring us back together as a couple.

Like I keep saying, not sure if this is right or wrong as pertaining to the couple relationship, but I am doing what I think is right for me....hoping it is right for us as a couple as well, but accepting that it is right for our friendship.

Does that make sense??


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## Lyn (Mar 10, 2010)

Make your life worth living without him and that will draw him to youy like a moth to a flame. Don't try to pin him down about anything...give him a chance to miss you and pursue you and see what a remarkable change you have made.

Best,

Lyn


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes cami, that makes perfect sense. If the friendship is valuable to you then it's worth pursuing. Just please don't wait around for the relationship to come back together while he's obviously pursuing a single life style.


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## cami (Jun 13, 2010)

So, I think I get to feel like somewhat of a fool here now. And I admit the wrongness of my thinking. I need more advice please.

So I got a pissed off call this morning. Seems his mom called him and he was camping with some friends. One woman and her boyfriend, One woman and her son, and him all in seperate tents. ANYWAY, his mom said, say hello to "@@" for me." when she was ready to hang up and he said what the hell is that supposed to mean....his mom said "well I assume she's right there int he tent with you". So his mom was accusing him of sleeping with OW at this point.

So he called me thinking I was the one who told her that. Well, it was NOT me. He had told me they were talking, they went to high school together and they were friends...I knew/know this. They are in "similar situations" with the SAME complaints about their spouses period. The only difference is that her hubby is not willing to attempt to make changes and I am.

I then started to question him a little....not too intrusive, but I had to understand. I guess they have went out to lunch together. He has not held her hand, no kisses, no touches....just lunch. But when I asked if she was faithful to her marriage he said she "has been" and that she really wants out, but can't right now. So I then asked if he was dating her...he said no. He would not commit a comment to whether I had to worry about her because he doesn't want to start a "cat fight" anywhere like FB or some of the other forums or anything. He doesn't want me saying bad things about her when she's only been a friend a listened to him at this point. But they've went on a lunch "date" and they have went camping with her son and stuff.

He did say "would I date ##, yes, but would I date you if you keep the changes, yes". 

I think this is what an Emotional affair is. And I can combat that as long as he is willing to let me. He asked why I was so asking these questions now and I said "well, I need to know if I TRULY have a chance to prove these things to you." He said I do, that he told me that and he means it. Period.

I explained then that I work hard every day to dig deep and to reach down and to continue to improve myself. I work hard every day to keep up with the changes I have made and work toward other changes that are good. I work hard every day to know that I am doing the right thing for me and pray every day that they are the right changes for him as well. He said he knows this. 

He said he would call me back later cause I asked if we could maybe go do something together. He said he was busy right now but then had to go back to his "home" and see if he stilll had a "home" cause his mom is so spitting mad. Then he would call me and let me know if we could manage to get together or not. I did state there would be no Sex. That I just wanted to spend some time together and talk. Period. he said that wasn't the problem, it was just that he was busy and would have to call me later and we could see.

So, what do I thhink now?? What do I do?? I want to keep working on myself, I want to keep working to save my marriage, I want to do fun things and he was always the one I did them with when I used to do them so it is my nature to call him when I want to as well. Please help me figure this out and have a direction to go.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

He is all ready dating her. Whether there was anything physical or not, going to lunch and going camping are most certainly dates. I would say his mom knows more about what is going on than you do and her comments to you should be well heeded.

Keep making those changes, but back off him. He's obviously pursuing a life with you on the fringes of it and that will NOT save your marriage.

Find other people to call to have fun with. Join some clubs, get out and meet people. Life is too short to wait around to see if the changes you are making is going to be "good enough" for him or not. Feeling good about yourself for YOU is what should matter now.


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## cami (Jun 13, 2010)

I was just reviewing my journal. I found this interesting. I put this long entry in just two days ago. And now that I re=look at it, I am figuring out that I'm not as crazy as I thought I was...I may actually be on the right track here. What do ya'all think??

***
I am not trying to make H uncomfortable, I am telling him what I want and need. I am being 100% honest with him, I am giving him 100% of my attention when I am with him in person, phone, text or chat. I am recognizing his faults too and point them out in a nice manner. I am making changes that I feel are good for me. I am trying to figure out a future though I have not done so yet. I am starting to want to go out and be with friends (GAL). I am telling him things that I never dreamed possible and disussing rather than fighting. I am, for instance, getting pretty angry that he lied to me about OW, that he hid things from me for months and that everything is now his way or no way. Well, I have feelings, wants, desires and needds too and he needs to recognize that. But he must do it on his own. I am also going dim. I will not call, text, email etc him unless absolutely necessary. I will answer his periodically but will not talk about OW. I will deal with what must be done and no more, but be friendly throughout.

I will make decisions solely for me and not worry about what he thinks.

I have already told him that he is not welcome here unless I know and say it's okay. 

I will talk to the executress of the estate and attempt to sell this house and downsize which is something we had talked about for months anyway, so I am just going to do that. I WANT to do that, so I AM.

I will check at university and see about what I need to do in order to finish my degrees and see if it is a fiesable option at this time.

I will learn to quit torturing myself. He lied to me and hid things from me for months now. I wasn't the only one at fault. My lie was the SAME ONE the whole time, he has done worse and hidden more from me than I ever did him. I will not take all the blame here. But will share it.

I will not go quietly into this divorce without fighting for my H and M. I love him and it would be a betrayal of ME if I did that. I will NOT betray myself!

I will continue to do the little, spontaneous things. They are fun, I like to make people smile. It makes me feel good to do this.

I will keep my house clean cause I like it better this way. I still despise the house and town, but clean it is better by a long shot.

I will work on my compassionate, caring, nurturing side to improve my worth as a person. To be the best me I can be.

I will diligently search for a new job. Something stable where there is room to grow and where I can be appreciated. This will also enable me to pay my bills and maintain.

I will continue to lose weight. I am at 276lbs, I want to be at 175 and healthieer. I will continue to diet, work out and walk toward this goal. I will also quit smoking finally. It is best for me and my health.

I am done being the doormat here. I will not accept all blame, I will not just do what makes someone else happy. I will live for ME and do what I feel is right along the away. Hopefully they will agree with me, but I don't know and don't have the energy to care at this point.

I will adhere to the DB advice and see what happens. If nothing else, I will learn bout myself along the way and be better off for it.

I will work to achieve serenity, wisdom and courage. I will ask God's help to achieve ll of my goals and I will listen so that when God tells me or shows me somethhing I will hear Him and know because I can Achieve all things through God who strengthens me.

***

I just wish I wasn't so lonely right now. I'm having a hard time with not responding to H texts at this point. UGH! 

see, I know that OW is out of town until tomarrow night and that his friends are all busy with family, heck that's my problem friends are busy, so H is bored and alone so he is texting me occassionally. Well, I get that, but he put a FB post up about her and that he misses her. The only responses he has gotten were from her BFF. LOL. But that's what I expected to happen. There's not a family member that will respond that I am aware of at this time. They all KNOW how wrong this is and they all do NOT accept or welcome her in their homes. One point for me huh? Actually, it shows that they care and that they have morals and stand by them. I'm glad for that. I have NOT asked them NOT to talk to him about it. I have made sure that they all know what is going on and are fully aware of what is happening. They HAVE told him that she is not welcome in their homes or around them and that they do NOT approve of this. What I was saying is that they will not do this on FB as a general agreement in that they do not wish to embarrass me further or themselves when he blasts back at them. That's all, so the comments will only be from her friends in that case.

I did not ask them not to do this, they just have been doing things that way. He has only posted things on there twice about OW and they have been pretty much ignored, but he gets calls and texts about them consistengly from what he complains to me in private. We are not hiding the infidelity from anyone, actually he isn't either, that's what I mean when I say he posted on FB about her and him. He is out in the open with it. Whatever anyone comments, well they do, I can't stop them and I would not try. I'm going to let him hang himself there because we have over 80 mutual friends that will see that, I'm sure they will make some kind of comment about me being gone when they had seen me online. It will be interesting. I'm just not asking them to comment. I will let them make that choice there. 

Other than FB I have not held back from anyone that he is dating so and so and that we are still married and have not filed for D at this point. Actually, I go out of my way to tell people that. LOL. It actually makes me feel better when I do that and they get this look on their faces like OMG he's doing what?? 

I'd better clarify and admit to something here. 

I asked my children NOT to comment on FB on anything their father said about OW. I told them that I didn't feel it was right that he posted there about someone else while we are still married and no divorce is filed, that it isn't right that he is seeing someone else while we are still married and that I would not condone his actions nor would I take the blame for them.

Therefore, my explanation to them was that I felt that to be fair to both of us and not be in the middle, that I would prefer that they not comment to their father or me on FB about this situation, instead they should talk to us one on one and make their decision based on what they feel is right. Just not in a public forum because, regardless, we are both their parents and they are stuck with both of us for life.

I'm just lonely all the kids are gone, both boys at their GF houses and daughter lives 250 miles away. So no one here but me and the furbabies. So some holiday for me. UGH. 

K. I'll get off the pity pot now, but it felt good for a few minutes.


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