# Wife Suddenly Goes Out All The Time -- Am I Being a Jerk?



## Marduk

Hi everyone, I'm very new to these forums. I'm here after yet another sleepless night and fight with the wife and I'm looking for some *honest* feedback. If I'm being a jerk and unreasonable I want to know it.

Some background. My wife and I were both divorced after very young unhealthy marriages. Both cheated on, both tried to make it work and couldn't.

We've been in a happy marriage for ~8 years and have been together for about 13 years. We have three young kids and my wife is a great stay at home mom.

We have a pretty idyllic life. Great home, great kids, great job, etc. 

But about 6-8 months ago things seemed to change for my wife. First she started scrapbooking 4-5 times a month, until late at night. OK, I'm glad she has some creative outlets. Then her girlfriends started a "ladies group" one night a month where they all go out together. OK, I'm glad she gets a night out. Gets tough the weeks where she's gone 2-3 times until late, but I live with it.

Then she starts marathon training... where she's out running most evenings. It's just for an hour or two, so OK. Now on top of that she starts one of those "boot camp" things a few nights a week. She's very into fitness... so how can I argue with that? I join her at the boot camp occasionally.

Then her girls group decides to do a 5 day weekend in Vegas. I'm very not OK with this and tell her... but she goes anyway. And now she's going out occasionally with another set of girlfriends -- and just last night comes home from "dinner" at 1 AM when I get up at 6 for work.

And she's suddenly started spending thousands of dollars on clothes. Combined with the Vegas trips and nights out we're deep in debt. She keeps saying for me to go on a guy's trip but how can I put my family even deeper in debt? And why would I want to go away without her?

I have been practicing martial arts for 20ish years... and now I'm down to being able to do it for _maybe_ one early evening a week (leave after dinner and home by 9) because she's always out.

I'm absolutely done with all this being out and don't understand it. I have been telling her for months it's too much but she just says I'm being controlling and holding her back from the things she wants to do and she isn't doing anything bad. 

I finally lost it on her last night and told her I'm done with this. She can either be reasonable (meaning not gone out until late 3-5 nights a week) or our relationship is going to profoundly change. Meaning either I'm out of here or will start doing the same.

Seeing as we've both been cheated on I'm not cool with the Vegas trips or the late nights. And I'm not cool with working all day to support our life and being a single parent at night.

Please -- am I being unreasonable? I'm not asking her to stop, just tone it down to 1-2 nights a week max, no more weekends away, and no late nights on week nights. Is that too much?


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## nice777guy

Sounds like you guys should be able to meet in the middle. Yes - she should be able to go out, but 5 nights a week sounds excessive. 

And spending money you don't have is never a good thing.

Are most of her female friends - the ones she scrapbooks with and went to Vegas with - married or single?

I'm guessing you realize this, but a suddenly renewed interest in one's appearance (new clothes, working out) coupled with all of this time outside the home are definitely red flags that there could be someone else.


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## Susan2010

Yes, you are being unreasonable and like she says, you are being controlling. It isn't up to you to determine what your wife does, how often, or what time. You are her husband, not her father.

I understand how you feel, but you can't control/demand/require it of her. You should, however, try to talk to her. There is a reason she is away from home so much, so you need to try to find out why so many outside interests have become more important than spending time with you and the children. Make an appointment with a marriage counselor because your ultimatum is not going to work in the long run, and you'd be too surprised if it doesn't work in the short term. Again, you are not her father, and the ultimatum was an attempt at control. I wouldn't be surprised if your controlling nature is at the root of the problem, which is another very good reason to seek marriage counseling.


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## turnera

This is where you sit her down and say 'what happened to the marriage? There isn't one at this point' and see what she says. _Something _has to change. 

fwiw, she has most likely been cheating on you for a while now.


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## Marduk

nice777guy said:


> Sounds like you guys should be able to meet in the middle. Yes - she should be able to go out, but 5 nights a week sounds excessive.
> 
> And spending money you don't have is never a good thing.
> 
> Are most of her female friends - the ones she scrapbooks with and went to Vegas with - married or single?
> 
> I'm guessing you realize this, but a suddenly renewed interest in one's appearance (new clothes, working out) coupled with all of this time outside the home are definitely red flags that there could be someone else.


Thanks for the feedback... the friends are mostly married but there are a few recent divorcees in the mix.

I realize it's a red flag which is part of my concern. I also think I tried to play it cool for too long which is how it got to be so often. Obviously I'm a bit of a doormat.

Part of the problem is that she says that her friend's husbands don't have a problem with it.... the issue there is there are 4 different groups of friends and each one thing in isolation isn't a problem. It's that she wants to do everything that everybody else does.


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## Marduk

Susan2010 said:


> Yes, you are being unreasonable and like she says, you are being controlling. It isn't up to you to determine what your wife does, how often, or what time. You are her husband, not her father.
> 
> I understand how you feel, but you can't control/demand/require it of her. You should, however, try to talk to her. There is a reason she is away from home so much, so you need to try to find out why so many outside interests have become more important than spending time with you and the children. Make an appointment with a marriage counselor because your ultimatum is not going to work in the long run, and you'd be too surprised if it doesn't work in the short term. Again, you are not her father, and the ultimatum was an attempt at control. I wouldn't be surprised if your controlling nature is at the root of the problem, which is another very good reason to seek marriage counseling.


Thanks -- really, thanks -- for the honest feedback. It's what I'm looking for. I've never given her an ultimatum before. And the ultimatum was that I would start acting like her, which would lead to a marriage that I wouldn't want.

I can see how it could be controlling and it's not the way I want to be. I want her to do what she wants... but at the same time I'm suddenly on the short end of the stick most nights. All I want is balance and some respect. How do I ask for this without being controlling?


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## Marduk

turnera said:


> This is where you sit her down and say 'what happened to the marriage? There isn't one at this point' and see what she says. _Something _has to change.
> 
> fwiw, she has most likely been cheating on you for a while now.


That's what I asked her last night. She says everything's fine, she just doesn't want to be cooped up in the house and have some fun on her own.

Your last comment is what I'm worried about. Honestly don't think it's happened but I think we're on that path.


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## nice777guy

If you can assume she's telling the truth and isn't cheating, maybe you guys need to get a sitter and go out together once a week.

Stay at home mom's often feel very isolated and cooped up. That part makes sense.

But I think Turnera had the best point - where is your marriage if she's leaving as soon as you come home?


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## michzz

You can't control another human being's activities. However, you can set boundaries as to what activities you'll put up with in your life and which ones you won't.

If that is labeled controlling, then so be it. 

You don't sound unreasonable to me. Your wife clearly prefers to be elsewhere. The question is why?

Is she cheating? Can't say for sure, but she sure is pushing the envelope and is ready to cross over. She is putting herself out in temptation's way at the very least.

I do have one suggestion. Instead of just telling her that you don't want her to go and alerting to you of your fears of infidelity, offer alternatives that include you and she doing something fun.

And do things as a family too.

I don't really buy it that all she is doing is scrapbooking with the girls. That may have been the start, but things have escalated.

If I were you, I'd drop in some time with your running shoes for one of those running evenings. 

My gut tells me it would be an eye opener.

BTW, put the both of you on a budget.


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## Marduk

nice777guy said:


> If you can assume she's telling the truth and isn't cheating, maybe you guys need to get a sitter and go out together once a week.
> 
> Stay at home mom's often feel very isolated and cooped up. That part makes sense.
> 
> But I think Turnera had the best point - where is your marriage if she's leaving as soon as you come home?


Tried that. I surprised her twice in the past few months with box seats at concerts she wanted to see, we go out for dinner once every couple of months (getting hard to arrange around her schedule), bring home flowers, etc, etc. She still wants to go out/away "just with the girls." Something I'm supportive of -- honestly. At least in the beginning. She wasn't sure she was going to go in the beginning, I talked her into it. And now I feel pretty stupid obviously. I just want some balance. It's not that I _never_ want her to go out. It's just become too much, and our relationship has just become too one sided.


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## Marduk

michzz said:


> You can't control another human being's activities. However, you can set boundaries as to what activities you'll put up with in your life and which ones you won't.
> 
> If that is labeled controlling, then so be it.
> 
> You don't sound unreasonable to me. Your wife clearly prefers to be elsewhere. The question is why?
> 
> Is she cheating? Can't say for sure, but she sure is pushing the envelope and is ready to cross over. She is putting herself out in temptation's way at the very least.
> 
> I do have one suggestion. Instead of just telling her that you don't want her to go and alerting to you of your fears of infidelity, offer alternatives that include you and she doing something fun.
> 
> And do things as a family too.
> 
> I don't really buy it that all she is doing is scrapbooking with the girls. That may have been the start, but things have escalated.
> 
> If I were you, I'd drop in some time with your running shoes for one of those running evenings.
> 
> My gut tells me it would be an eye opener.
> 
> BTW, put the both of you on a budget.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll certainly try to "drop in" to something she's doing. I don't want to be a creep about it though.

We just came back from a family camping trip, we go out to shows, dinner, movies, whatever she wants to do. Went to Vegas just us as a romantic trip about 6 months ago. Doesn't seem enough.

Tried to put us on a budget. I agreed to cut back the two luxury items I indulge in -- parking at work (take the bus now) and stopping buying lunch at work 2-3 times a week. She agreed to cut down on her expenses -- clothing and going out, but went out the next day and bought some expensive clothes for _me_ instead of for her.

Last night I asked her about going to a marriage counselor. She said we don't have the money for that. Same night that she went out for dinner with the girls...


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## Susan2010

marduk said:


> All I want is balance and some respect. How do I ask for this without being controlling?


You tell her how her actions make you feel - express your feelings completely be they neglected, disrespected, loneliness, whatever. And, you begin wooing her back to you just as if you were dating. Like I said, there is a reason for this whether she is seeing someone, she is bored, or something. It's possible she, herself, began to feel neglected, disrespected, lonely, taken for granted, etc. And it's possible this is a phase she is going through because it makes her feel more complete and more valued as a person. But, there should definitely be a limit, and she has to understand that.

At this point, I think you should apologize for the ultimatum. Tell her you realize you were wrong but that something is amiss in the marriage and you want to work it out. Before you do this, already have made the appointment for MC so you can tell her what day/time the appointment is. Ask her will she participate. If she refuses, then you have to make up your mind what to do (your mind should already be made up) and then follow through. Yes, I am saying you should leave. Immediately pack your bags and leave because you absolutely CANNOT allow yourself to be her doormat any longer. This trend has begun and will never stop if YOU don't put a stop to it. This might be the end of your marriage, and you have to be resolved at that fact. However, the normal reaction is the spouse straightens up and begins to see the value of cooperating. It isn't likely she wants the marriage to end, and no one likes being walked out on. It's a chance you take but you have to determine it is better than putting up with her disrespect. And honestly, she will completely lose respect for you if you continue to allow this. If one hasn't already been going, an affair is inevitable for a wife who has no respect for her husband. Reel her back in now and that means making some hard decisions and taking chances.


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## Marduk

Susan2010 said:


> You tell her how her actions make you feel - express your feelings completely be they neglected, disrespected, loneliness, whatever. And, you begin wooing her back to you just as if you were dating. Like I said, there is a reason for this whether she is seeing someone, she is bored, or something. It's possible she, herself, began to feel neglected, disrespected, lonely, taken for granted, etc. And it's possible this is a phase she is going through because it makes her feel more complete and more valued as a person. But, there should definitely be a limit, and she has to understand that.
> 
> At this point, I think you should apologize for the ultimatum. Tell her you realize you were wrong but that something is amiss in the marriage and you want to work it out. Before you do this, already have made the appointment for MC so you can tell her what day/time the appointment is. Ask her will she participate. If she refuses, then you have to make up your mind what to do (your mind should already be made up) and then follow through. Yes, I am saying you should leave. Immediately pack your bags and leave because you absolutely CANNOT allow yourself to be her doormat any longer. This trend has begun and will never stop if YOU don't put a stop to it. This might be the end of your marriage, and you have to be resolved at that fact. However, the normal reaction is the spouse straightens up and begins to see the value of cooperating. It isn't likely she wants the marriage to end, and no one likes being walked out on. It's a chance you take but you have to determine it is better than putting up with her disrespect. And honestly, she will completely lose respect for you if you continue to allow this. If one hasn't already been going, an affair is inevitable for a wife who has no respect for her husband. Reel her back in now and that means making some hard decisions and taking chances.


Thanks. Seriously. This is something I can do and something I can live with.


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## turnera

marduk said:


> We just came back from a family camping trip, we go out to shows, dinner, movies, whatever she wants to do. Went to Vegas just us as a romantic trip about 6 months ago. Doesn't seem enough.
> 
> Tried to put us on a budget. I agreed to cut back the two luxury items I indulge in -- parking at work (take the bus now) and stopping buying lunch at work 2-3 times a week. She agreed to cut down on her expenses -- clothing and going out, but went out the next day and bought some expensive clothes for _me_ instead of for her.


Here's a big tip about women: Do NOT spoil them! Do NOT do 'whatever she wants to do.' Women (typically) want to have a man who takes charge, makes her feel special, takes her breath away by focusing on her but NOT being a wuss. 

Everything you describe is Mr Nice Guy, and you need to stop it. She does not desire you any more because you are catering to her; she has lost interest; you're boring and predictable and 'nice.'

You want to get her attention? Cut off her money. Tell her the FAMILY is on a budget. If she wants to keep going out, she can get a job and pay for it. Otherwise, there is enough money to pay the bills, and you will each get a small EQUAL sum to spend each week - the rest is now going to pay off ALL bills and start your college funds you should have already set up.

Running after her and trying to get her to notice - NOW - and choose you is pathetic and degrading (in her eyes). She takes you for granted. Time to set her straight. (with love, of course)


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## turnera

Susan2010 said:


> If she refuses, then you have to make up your mind what to do (your mind should already be made up) and then follow through. Yes, I am saying you should leave.


I will disagree with this. The best way to win her back is to be there where you can effect changes. If she's cheating, leaving only makes it easier for her. If she's not, it just shows her that you're not worth fighting for.


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## AFEH

Hi Marduk,
No way I’d tolerate what you’re tolerating, no way. Five days in Vegas, thousands of dollars on clothes. She’s in total la la land. 

What you can control is the budget. Put a stop on your wife’s cards, destroy them or whatever and give her spending money each month. Else she’ll get you deep into debt while she’s enjoying herself as a “single” woman.

No money? She can’t do what she wants to do? Tough, that’s life. Go out and get a job and be more responsible towards the family.

Bob


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## kiwigirl

hey i think u hav prob been pretty understanding, if u guys didnt hav kids then it wudnt b so much of an issue but basically shes leaving you to raise them. you guys need to compromise so you both get some time out, and if you guys cant afford it then its unfair of her to spend as much as she is and im a shopaholic but i have a budget i have to stick too or we wouldnt be able to pay the bills. 
if shes always out its a sign there is trouble too, i spend alot more time at the gym training and walking our dog when im unhappy at home


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## Marduk

So this is what I've done. I pulled her aside on a quiet moment and told her I'm not trying to control her. She's an adult and can do what she wants. But it doesn't mean that I have to put up with it. Marriage is a choice, day by day, and she's choosing herself over her marriage. Fine. She gives herself to the kids every day and needs her own time. OK. But this is too much for me.

She said there's no problem. She's not trying to get away from her marriage, she's just taking advantage of the opportunities being given her. The marathons, trip to vegas, all new experiences she feels she can have inside her marriage as she isn't being unfaithful. And growing up with an overbearing father having me get upset when she goes out simply pushes her away and makes her want to go out more.

I told her we have a problem. She disagreed and said that it's just a coincidence that everything's happening at the same time for the past 6 months. I called BS and said if one person has a problem in a relationship then there's a problem. I said I was going to counselling and she can come or not. 

I said the money's out. We have a choice: spend less or she can go back to work. Period. The new clothes with the tags on go back to the store. And once the money's paid off I'm spending a little on myself after we set aside some for the kids.

She seemed surprised by this and committed to reducing her time out and to give her a few weeks to see that this is a blip and if I feel the same way she'll go to counselling with me then.

I said fine, do what you want. And in the meantime I'll do what I want. If we have a relationship in a few weeks, great. If we want to work on it, great. If we're done because I'm doing what she's been doing then we know where we stand. No more mr. nice guy BS. No more dinners, concerts, trips, nothing. I live for myself and my kids until she figures out if she's in this or not. And I'm going out tonight and have plans after the kids go to bed every night. Be that a movie with the guys, beers after work or actually getting some of my stuff done around the house. If she wants to do something then she needs to figure out a babysitter and figure out how to pay for one.

I feel a hell of a lot better. Not controlling her behavior but controlling mine. Setting limits and boundaries for what I will accept. 

I have to thank you guys. Many different opinions here but all have helped. I'll post back as things progress. And in the meantime if I can help others I will.


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## turnera

NOW, she will respect you. As she should.


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## Susan2010

marduk said:


> She disagreed and said that it's just a coincidence that everything's happening at the same time for the past 6 months.


That really is a bunch of BS. She has to see she is being insanely selfish to want and think she can do it all. Anyone in their right mind would pick and choose, while placing their family first. Not to mention it seems to me some of her activities could be family events. I'm glad you called her on this, but I am worried that you insist on controlling her. You're doing the right thing, but you're not doing it in a loving way, which still comes off as controlling. You are reacting to her, and tit for tat is never the solution. When she asked for "a few more weeks" the best thing to do is handle it in a compromising manner. Tell her you prefer she take one more week to wind things up. Nothing would take longer than that to decide she has to give up a few things and to say her goodbyes if necessary. But because she didn't drop all things immediately, you decide to be combative and make things considerably difficult for her. Surely you see that is still very controlling. And so controlling to the point that you forgot all about your own objective. You don't mind her doing things, remember? You just don't want her gone all the time and so busy with outside interests that she is neglecting you and the children. Remember that? But now, you are going to be away every night because she didn't answer the way you wanted. Huh? Be loving so she gets the message that she is being thoughtless and neglectful, while you have the marriage and children at heart. Be mean and you push her away emotionally. You didn't make the MC appointment as I suggested, but I hope you were serious when you told her. You both need to learn how to communicate and you need to learn how each other feels.


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## Marduk

Susan2010 said:


> That really is a bunch of BS. She has to see she is being insanely selfish to want and think she can do it all. Anyone in their right mind would pick and choose, while placing their family first. Not to mention it seems to me some of her activities could be family events. I'm glad you called her on this, but I am worried that you insist on controlling her. You're doing the right thing, but you're not doing it in a loving way, which still comes off as controlling. You are reacting to her, and tit for tat is never the solution. When she asked for "a few more weeks" the best thing to do is handle it in a compromising manner. Tell her you prefer she take one more week to wind things up. Nothing would take longer than that to decide she has to give up a few things and to say her goodbyes if necessary. But because she didn't drop all things immediately, you decide to be combative and make things considerably difficult for her. Surely you see that is still very controlling. And so controlling to the point that you forgot all about your own objective. You don't mind her doing things, remember? You just don't want her gone all the time and so busy with outside interests that she is neglecting you and the children. Remember that? But now, you are going to be away every night because she didn't answer the way you wanted. Huh? Be loving so she gets the message that she is being thoughtless and neglectful, while you have the marriage and children at heart. Be mean and you push her away emotionally. You didn't make the MC appointment as I suggested, but I hope you were serious when you told her. You both need to learn how to communicate and you need to learn how each other feels.


Actually I had one booked that she asked me to cancel. 
I get what you're saying about being controlling, but from my perspective all I'm controlling is myself. I was a bit hostile but only because she denied the issue at all, and said it's all in my head and maybe I should look there for the answer. She also said I could go out anytime I like and do whatever I want. So I am. How is that controlling?

I've stayed at home dozens of times for her. What's the next few weeks on that?

I've told her how I feel over and over again and she just says that its my issue and nothing changes. What more can I communicate?

I very much respect your opinion so please don't interpret this as hostility.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Susan2010

marduk said:


> I very much respect your opinion so please don't interpret this as hostility.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, I didn't, but I also hope you understand that you didn't explain her defiance. So now I can see the reason for your ire. Boy, do you guys need MC very badly.


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## michzz

Actually, your reaction to your wife--fight fire with fire--might actually work.

If she has any reasonableness within her she will see that what she is doing is destructive. She is acting like a petulant teenage girl. Something has to snap her out of this selfishness.

The one thing I'll caution you about is that a cheater and liar can step up their game far beyond what you can imagine. So if this is what she is, be prepared for war.


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## AFEH

Hi Marduk,
Fabulous example of setting boundaries with the money. Your money, your family’s money was being abused so you set a boundary. It’s what it’s all about, being abused? Set a boundary.

If you haven’t already, take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.

We learn a lot about ourselves and our partner during the bad periods and all marriages have them. Boundary identification and setting is the way what we’ve learnt “sinks” in. The new boundaries change us deep inside and we become somewhat of a different person while remaining more or less the same.

More importantly if we’re being abused during the bad period that stops. Our new boundaries also prevent the same thing from happening again a year, ten years in the future.

Other things may happen in the future that’ll require new boundaries to protect ourselves from abuse and pain. But if we’ve learnt to identify and set new boundaries in the past we’re wiser as well as older and the abuse will stop a lot quicker.

The set of boundaries each of us have is unique to our chraracter and individual situations. For example my wife never abused my money, the family’s money so I never had to set a boundary for it.

Marriage comes with joy, happiness and pain. It’s so important to stop the pain so the joy and happiness can be truly experienced in the present and when looking back on our time together. Otherwise, what is marriage for?

Bob


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## AFEH

marduk said:


> So this is what I've done. I pulled her aside on a quiet moment and told her I'm not trying to control her. She's an adult and can do what she wants. But it doesn't mean that I have to put up with it. Marriage is a choice, day by day, and she's choosing herself over her marriage. Fine. She gives herself to the kids every day and needs her own time. OK. But this is too much for me.


You did absolutely the right thing. You just told your wife what you were going to do. We can never change another person only ourselves and hope that somewhere down the line they see that change, see the sense in it and start to behave differently towards us. Basically they begin to fear loss and the fear of loss is a very powerful motivator for change.

I’d really like to know if you actually “feel” a changed and better person. Do you feel a bit like a new you? Sill flexible in most areas of your life but intolerant in others?


Now while you’re huffing and puffing, reacting to the way your wife reacted to your boundary setting, you may want to bear in mind the following. You may like to think of this process that you are teaching your wife about you. The things you’ll tolerate and the things you wont. The things you value and the things you don’t, both of yourself and of your wife. You’re also beginning to understand yourself more, as is your wife.

If your wife responds in a positive way, a way that you can “feel” a change in her for the good, it will be important to your wife and your marriage to recognise and show your appreciation for the changes she has made. If you don’t do this somewhere down the line your wife will become bitter and resentful. Showing appreciation for change, for in essence getting what we need, is I found one of the most loving and joyful things to do in a marriage.

I would urge caution about changing anymore of your behaviour, the going out at night etc. In a way you have “laid down the law”, your law, from your point of view of your family. Your wife will need time to adjust, to think about what she has learnt from you, what it is that you told her. If in the mean time you’re out and about then she may well take that as it will become your future behaviour and therefore so no need to change hers. In effect, you'd be giving her an excuse not to change. You’re going out and about could well escalate the situation and make it worse than it already is.

You need to be calm and available. You need the calmness and availability to observe what your wife is doing. Sometimes there are small, oh so subtle signals from a woman that they are changing. While you are huffing and puffing you will not see these subtle changes, she’ll know you haven’t seen them and will think her efforts to change for you, wasted on you.

Bob


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## Marduk

Thanks for the feedback everyone. AFEH I won't push it too far, I'll do it a few times and watch for her response. So far it's been good but we'll see.

Last night was absolutely classic. I know it's not funny but I kind of saw the humor in the whole thing. Ended up going out to a movie with a buddy from work (Predators, BTW, great guy movie).

Came home to find my wife pretending to be asleep in bed. As soon as I settled in, she started in... "Who was there? Were there women there with you?" etc, etc. I calmly answered every question and then, I asked, "Would it matter if there were women there? I'm sure there are lots of guys around on your ladies nights, exercise nights, etc. You say I should be fine with you going out. Aren't you fine with me going out?" Silence.

The next morning, she let me sleep in, and when I started tearing down the tent trailer from our recent camping trip, she made me breakfast. We calmly discussed things a bit, I held her hand, and we left it there.

What a difference a night makes.


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## Brewster 59

Susan2010 said:


> Yes, you are being unreasonable and like she says, you are being controlling. It isn't up to you to determine what your wife does, how often, or what time. You are her husband, not her father.
> 
> I understand how you feel, but you can't control/demand/require it of her. You should, however, try to talk to her. There is a reason she is away from home so much, so you need to try to find out why so many outside interests have become more important than spending time with you and the children. Make an appointment with a marriage counselor because your ultimatum is not going to work in the long run, and you'd be too surprised if it doesn't work in the short term. Again, you are not her father, and the ultimatum was an attempt at control. I wouldn't be surprised if your controlling nature is at the root of the problem, which is another very good reason to seek marriage counseling.


 Disagree here at least in some respects agree wih others.
First of all I dont see how you could be ok with the excessive spending and the trips. I also agree with the post says that these are red flags. I also dont see how you wouldnt be upset about her spending the money you earn without concidering your opinion.

I dont see how you should be ok with working all day and comming home to have to take care of the children at night by yourself. You may not be her father but you are her huband and provider so I think your feelings should count for something and you should be getting something more out of this marriage than paying bills and taking care of kids, while she is out having a great time.

I agree trying to get to the root of the problem and why she doesnt want to spend time with you. Ask her about doing things together. Tell her how you feel about what is going on. Suggest going to marriage couselling if it is needed.

The your to controlling card doesnt work here IMO not to many guys would be alright with working all day babysitting at night while she is whooping it up on your dime.


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## Brewster 59

michzz said:


> Actually, your reaction to your wife--fight fire with fire--might actually work.
> 
> If she has any reasonableness within her she will see that what she is doing is destructive. She is acting like a petulant teenage girl. Something has to snap her out of this selfishness.
> 
> The one thing I'll caution you about is that a cheater and liar can step up their game far beyond what you can imagine. So if this is what she is, be prepared for war.


The thing I dont like about this idea is how are the children going to feel. If Dad starts going out all the time they may feel abandoned and like nobody wants to spend time with them.


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## Marduk

Brewster 59 said:


> The thing I dont like about this idea is how are the children going to feel. If Dad starts going out all the time they may feel abandoned and like nobody wants to spend time with them.


Agreed. I worry about that too which is why I'll only go out after the kids are in bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz

Brewster 59 said:


> The thing I dont like about this idea is how are the children going to feel. If Dad starts going out all the time they may feel abandoned and like nobody wants to spend time with them.


I see it as a short-term strategy, not forevermore.


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## aw5756

It kind of sounds like she is having a mid-life crisis and wants to experience some new things. Something you could try doing is planning a cruise, but take a few people, some of her friends some of your friends and get out. They sell cruise packages cheaper in bundles and it might be just what she needs. As an added benefit, you could very well spark something in her that may snap her out of it or maybe she'll just remember how much fun the two of you can have together rather than apart.


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## Russell2

I am going through this EXACT thing with my wife. Only all the time is spent with a close male friend (no vegas trips). We should compare notes. I hope all goes well. I myself am baffled. I appreciated the "boring doormat" "nice" guy input from one reader...yup thats me. My wife's friend is an abusive controlling ass to his family - and has been a jerk to our kids all to do with Martial atrs too!!!


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## Marduk

michzz said:


> The one thing I'll caution you about is that a cheater and liar can step up their game far beyond what you can imagine. So if this is what she is, be prepared for war.


I'm prepared for this. If she's a cheat/liar then I want out and sooner rather than later. 

Previous divorce has taught me that if you're done its better to rip the band aid off and be done with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

AFEH said:


> I’d really like to know if you actually “feel” a changed and better person. Do you feel a bit like a new you? Sill flexible in most areas of your life but intolerant in others?


Hi Bob,
I feel like I'm more focused on my response than her behavior. More in control of myself and less worried about what she's going to do. And, quite frankly, more worried about my own happiness right now than hers. How that changes is really up to her.


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## Marduk

Russell2 said:


> I am going through this EXACT thing with my wife. Only all the time is spent with a close male friend (no vegas trips). We should compare notes. I hope all goes well. I myself am baffled. I appreciated the "boring doormat" "nice" guy input from one reader...yup thats me. My wife's friend is an abusive controlling ass to his family - and has been a jerk to our kids all to do with Martial atrs too!!!


All I can tell you is that things have gotten better in the past few days since we've had it out. Especially since I started going out, too and drew the line with money. She's been treating me very well, she's been cutting a lot of corners with money, and the next "ladies night" she's planning is an afternoon picnic in the park _with the kids_.

She still hasn't admitted that she's done anything wrong or inappropriate and says that I'm overreacting. _But_ the behavior has changed so something must have gotten through to her.

From my perspective what needs to stop is the Mr Nice Guy BS that a lot of husbands think they have to do... cater to their wives first, make them happy, do what they _say_ they want, etc. But I think life is more about making sure you have your own needs being met so that you can actually give the other person a more accurate portrayal of who you really are, warts and all.

I don't think I have all the answers. And honestly I think the other shoe is going to drop at some point here... not out of the woods yet by any means. But I also know that I've very clearly drawn a line in the sand, one that I think is fair and balanced for both the adults in the situation. She can choose to cross it if she wishes. And I can choose to pack my bags if I wish. Or we can choose -- together -- to redraw the boundaries in a way that works for both of us.

But the one way road is a dead end.


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## turnera

marduk said:


> From my perspective what needs to stop is the Mr Nice Guy BS that a lot of husbands think they have to do... cater to their wives first, make them happy, do what they _say_ they want, etc. But I think life is more about making sure you have your own needs being met so that you can actually give the other person a more accurate portrayal of who you really are, warts and all.


This book (Relationship Book, Self Help Relationship Book For a Man, Best Manual for Men) is a simple how-to for BOTH of you getting what you want and need.


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## Marduk

turnera said:


> This book (Relationship Book, Self Help Relationship Book For a Man, Best Manual for Men) is a simple how-to for BOTH of you getting what you want and need.


Thanks. If she starts coming to the table to help resolve the issues and to open up instead of be in denial, I just might do that. Until that day I have to look out for my kids and myself first.


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## Marduk

Major breakthrough last night. Actually had a calm 2 hour conversation with her. 

She told me she feels cooped up and like a frumpy old mom. She sees her other friends going out and doing exciting things and she wants it too. She didn't realize that these are all different groups of friends and she's actually been getting exhausted in trying to keep up with everyone. She still didn't see why I would have a problem with what she's doing.

So I walked her through some examples where she has had a problem or been insecure with what I'm doing. Late nights at work, beers with the boys, that sort of thing. Then I reworded some of the thing she's been doing, in a very vague kind of way, as if I were to do them. She got very jealous and upset and questioned why I would want to do them.

When I pointed out that that's what she's been doing she was immediately defensive, and gave reasons/excuses why she did them, and when those didn't stand up she said "It's different if you go out as a guy, guys pursue women. Women don't."

So I pointed out a recent example of a bar/restaurant that she was concerned about me going to because it's known as a place where women go to pick up guys... and a light bulb went off in her head. Vegas, going out, everything. She admitted that she wouldn't be comfortable with me doing what she's been doing but she was OK to do it because she knew what was going on... and the inherent double standard in that became obvious to her.

I don't think we're done yet but at least for the moment we're better. I'd like to thank everyone for their honest feedback, support, and just for listening. You guys are the best.


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## turnera

Great news. Now might be a good time for you two to start talking about long-range plans. Figure out what you want to accomplish in life, and see how you can help each other accomplish those things. They don't have to be done alone, unless it's being single and dating she wants. If she wants to be admired, take up ballroom dancing and she can show off with the best of them. If she wants female companionship, join a church with a ladies' group. If she wants a degree, figure out which college. If she wants to move, discuss that, too. If she feels frumpy, start an exercise plan together so she can get really hot WITH you. If she needs freedom like other women have, make an agreement on how many days off you each get. Be creative.


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## Marduk

Trying my best said:


> I'm not seeing much along the lines of you enjoying your wife's company, enjoying being around her, with her, into what she's feeling, thinking, needing. It sounds to me that she needs you. Needs your male companionship and strong shoulder to lean on after a long day at home with the kids. She's not getting it (it sounds like to me) so she started filling the void with outside activities. The clothes, the workouts - might mean she's not out for an affair, just an appreciative eye from a man.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Stay at home moms need attention, they need adults to be their companions. If you come home and ignore her...unless to argue or criticize....I don't know if that's the case, but if you do love her, show it. Sweep her off her feet.
> 
> Speaking from experience.


Hey, thanks for the feedback, honestly!

But done, done, and done. We've had a weekend away in the past 6 months, I take her out to dinner/drinks at least once a month, took her to 3 concerts that she wanted to see in the past 6 months, bring home flowers, etc, etc. We do yoga together a few times a month... I've tried the basics which is why I started posting.

Thanks for the response tho!


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## turnera

Here's a good analogy. I've been out of love with my husband for a good 10 years, because of his Love Busters. I really wish I was single. But I'm in it for the long haul because I made a commitment. That said, when I do make an effort to snuggle with him, as that's what he likes (I'm not demonstrative like he is), he no longer kisses me on the mouth. He turns his cheek. It hurts. Even if I'm dissatisfied! I still want to know that he finds me attractive or worth kissing. It's the really basic, 'I'm into you' actions that build up and make a difference. A lingering touch, just rubbing her back for a second before you get out of bed in the morning, a note on the mirror or in the lunch box...little things.


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## SHARKY

What a great thread, I am going through the same thing here. I am new to this forum and I have been searching for threads with what is going on in my marriage. This thread is to close to home for me.


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## Psychologist

There's no middle. I don't believe that married adults require girls' or boys' nights out. Marriage isn't friendship with benefits but it is a commitment to one partner and a majority of common friends. Men or women who play the 'freedom' card when asked to curtail their outings are immature and don't understand the concept of a committed partnership. This doesn't mean that partners can't go out alone every now and then but Las Vegas? Strip clubs and fancy clothes? I would not want to be in a relationship with this woman.


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