# Woman friend is having an affair, what should I suggest



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain. 

That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him. Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat. She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood, he makes less but invariably seems to have something to complain about. She has tried to discuss their issues, suggest counseling, and sought mutual accommodation but he has done little. 

He is a reasonably good father and she doesn't want to break up her marriage but there seems to be little alternative. I am not suggesting that in these situations people should blame themselves, I am simply telling one story. Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Then she should divorce him. Looking outside of the marriage to try and compensate for something inside the marriage will only make the marriage worse.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She should get out of the affair.

She just blew up her family's life.

If she is going to cheat, get a divorce first.

But her OM is not the answer. If they will cheat with you they will cheat on you. 

She should have thought of her kids. Get out of the A and get tested for stds.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Yep, she needs to decide what is worth her energy and effort. Resolving the problems in her marital and family life, or acting like a cheap hussy.

If her marriage does not rate the effort, put the effort into divorce or separation and a healthy resolution for the kids. Sneaking out and screwing around for her own sense of excitement benefits her to the detriment of everyone else in her life.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


Then she didn't try hard enough. Period.

EXPOSE.

-ol' 2long


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain.
> 
> That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him. Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat. She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood, he makes less but invariably seems to have something to complain about. She has tried to discuss their issues, suggest counseling, and sought mutual accommodation but he has done little.
> 
> He is a reasonably good father and she doesn't want to break up her marriage but there seems to be little alternative. I am not suggesting that in these situations people should blame themselves, I am simply telling one story. Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


He's moody and controlling because his wife is a liar and a sneak and he is suspicious and confused. When she talked to him did she mention her boyfriend?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What she needs to do is open her mouth and if need be, spell it out so he fully understands the problem and it could be done if she presents it to him in a way that he understands and know the seriousness of the situation.

Then if he decides to make his changes and become the husband she wants, she has another problem to deal with and this problem is her own making. She stepped out of her marriage, involved another man in their relationship and then IMO, there's a strong chance that if her husband made any strides in improving himself as a husband, it will go down the toilet with her cheating.

She had a problem on her hands and just made it a two headed monster which is why she should have used common sense before cheating.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base. She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort. 

I did suggest through a friend that she could try harder, don't just try to tell him or make your point with some frustration. YELL AND YELL AND YELL AND YELL, HAVE A WEEK HAVING AN ALL OUT BATTLE AND WAR AND STAND UP TO HIM, nicely trying to make your points seems to be accomplishing nothing 

He has his own ideas about the way things seems to be and does not seem willing to change and I am not sure she wants to put her children through the stress of divorce. Doing this seems to be a way of getting herself into some type of fantasy world while in real life, after she comes home from a hard day, he seems to have just negative complaints and comments, though she is a positive and upbeat person. 

Personally if you get divorced, you divorced, and I don't see that much a difference with or without infidelity. I had a girlfriend who cheated, I didn't like her that much and it wasn't a big deal. 

Maybe at least subconsciously, she's hoping he'll find out and initiate the divorce relieving her of the decision to do it. He's probably someone who doesn't belong being married and lacks the will or ability to make the compromises needed for a successful marriage. She on the other hand could be a very good and faithful wife in the right circumstances and I don't think she is a chronic cheater, just someone frustrated with no way out. To be clear, no one tells her to do this but we understand it.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat.


Is she also manipulative?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base. She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort.
> 
> I did suggest through a friend that she could try harder, don't just try to tell him or make your point with some frustration. YELL AND YELL AND YELL AND YELL, HAVE A WEEK HAVING AN ALL OUT BATTLE AND WAR AND STAND UP TO HIM, nicely trying to make your points seems to be accomplishing nothing
> 
> ...


Putting the children through the stress of divorce oe putting them through the stress of her having an adulterous relationship?

*Well, there's just no contest! Is there? *:banghead:


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## TheBaxter (May 19, 2014)

Quit making excuses for her. Divorce is ALWAYS an option. It is better than cheating, and by staying silent you are a co-conspirator. How does that feel?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And just picture the scene!

"Hi, honey! The result just came back from the lab! It's positive!"

"What? You are pregnant?"

"No, I have just tested positive for an STD! And I probably gave it to you, too! Oh, dang. He just fainted!"


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base. She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort.
> 
> I did suggest through a friend that she could try harder, don't just try to tell him or make your point with some frustration. YELL AND YELL AND YELL AND YELL, HAVE A WEEK HAVING AN ALL OUT BATTLE AND WAR AND STAND UP TO HIM, nicely trying to make your points seems to be accomplishing nothing
> 
> ...


I hear a lot of pure bullish!t excuses and high praise for her truly gutter tramp behavior. You honestly sound exactly like you are quoting from the cheaters handbook of justifications and excuses.

I am sure she is such a wonderful wife and mother, except for letting another man paint her uterus and exposing her H to STDs at worst and OMs bodily fluids at least and putting her kids at an increased risk of a horrendous divorce due to her infidelity and being such a wonderful example to them.

Her H might be an A-hole but she has become a skank.

I would say her ability to cope with relationship difficulties is extremely limited...... if talking about a problem doesn't get the results she wants, she gets another mans penis in her crotch.

Your right, she sounds like a great catch, for a POSOM.

Your portrayal of this cheater is far too sunny. A wonderful, nice axe murderer is still a murderer. Just because she seems to have a lot of good traits does not take away from the FACT that she has allowed herself to become a horrible person, capable of enormous betrayal and deceit and selfishness.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base. She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort.


You are sitting on the outside, I would presume? It's a face she presents to the world. I doubt she told you all her personal secrets and events.




> I did suggest through a friend that she could try harder, don't just try to tell him or make your point with some frustration. YELL AND YELL AND YELL AND YELL, HAVE A WEEK HAVING AN ALL OUT BATTLE AND WAR AND STAND UP TO HIM, nicely trying to make your points seems to be accomplishing nothing


How do you know this? Did you discuss this with her husband?



> He has his own ideas about the way things seems to be and does not seem willing to change and I am not sure she wants to put her children through the stress of divorce. Doing this seems to be a way of getting herself into some type of fantasy world while in real life, after she comes home from a hard day, he seems to have just negative complaints and comments, though she is a positive and upbeat person.
> 
> Personally if you get divorced, you divorced, and I don't see that much a difference with or without infidelity. I had a girlfriend who cheated, I didn't like her that much and it wasn't a big deal.
> 
> Maybe at least subconsciously, she's hoping he'll find out and initiate the divorce relieving her of the decision to do it. He's probably someone who doesn't belong being married and lacks the will or ability to make the compromises needed for a successful marriage. * She on the other hand could be a very good and faithful wife in the right circumstances and I don't think she is a chronic cheater*, just someone frustrated with no way out. To be clear, no one tells her to do this but we understand it.



Fair to say, she's not. And can never ever say she was a very good and faithful wife.



I have observed that, in life, it's difficult for most people to do the right thing (me included).


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What the heck does her husband's moodiness have to do with this?

It always annoys me when an affair comes up that people automatically go into marital issues discussions and the disposition of the betrayed spouse. As if that is the critical factor here...

It doesn't matter if the guy smells like a sewer and has the manners of a gorilla.

Promiscuity is not a healthy lifestyle. And most certainly is not a legitimate response to feeling dissatisfied with your life.

Tell her to grow up, keep her legs closed, and to stop blaming everyone else for her lack of maturity.

If she doesn't want to be in a monogamous relationship with her husband then the adult response is to EXIT the MARRIAGE... not to sneak around like a spoiled teenage brat with no self respect.

Or better yet, confront the POSOM and tell him to back off. He's a threat to the family and has no business intruding in this covert sleazy manner.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Bobby5000,
You describe this situation like YOU are the cheating wife. "Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat." - my wife and her cheating friends said similar things about me while she was doing dirty. Maybe his behavior is based on the fact that he is sensing her dirty. 

Your friend is a cheater...why is she your friend?


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> Maybe at least subconsciously, she's hoping he'll find out and initiate the divorce relieving her of the decision to do it.


If your suspicion is true then she is even less of a sympathetic figure than your initial post painted her as. She wants him to initiate the divorce so she can say to herself(and others) that she really tried to keep her family intact but he was unwilling. She just wants to be seen as the "good guy".


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

cj9947 said:


> Bobby5000,
> You describe this situation like YOU are the cheating wife. "Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat." - my wife and her cheating friends said similar things about me while she was doing dirty. Maybe his behavior is based on the fact that he is sensing her dirty.
> 
> Your friend is a cheater...why is she your friend?


Sounds like this adulteress is also having an EA with the OP. OP, how do you know so much about the intricacies of this woman's marriage?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Okay, this is an interesting one.

Our morally-challenged OP poses an innocent question-

"What should I suggest to my female friend who is having an affair?"

Yes, we can all agree that it's a pretty stupid question. The answer is obvious.

But for whatever reason, Bobbi is soliciting opinions and recommendations for what she should tell her adulterous acquaintance.

Now 'ole Bobbi has 475 posts on TAM, so she knows we're not bashful about offering up advice, and, sure enough, the replies come pouring in, and they are predictably unanimous-

STOP HAVING AN AFFAIR!

Case closed? No way!

Bobbi counters that her friend is the victim, here. She has TRIED SO HARD! She's put in 90% of the effort in the relationship! Darn it, she deserves a little action on the side!

I'm not really interested in the cheating friend, here. I'm fascinated by OP.

I mean, you're on the outside looking in, right? You have no direct physical participation in this thing, so it's not like you're getting dopamine hits from naughty behavior.

So, presumably you have a clear view here.

How then do you twist things up in your head to where you are listing out "good behaviors" that you can't confirm without being smack dab in the middle of the affair, as justification for this lady to keep up her two-timin' ways?

Generally speaking, I almost always recommend counseling for both spouses affected by an affair.

You're supposedly not involved, but just based on what you've written here, I have to think you need some counseling too!


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## MoonBay (Mar 10, 2013)

No, she did not do everything she could to fix her marriage.

If the issues were really that bad, divorce should've been brought up.

You're only hearing one side of the story, OP. The version your friend has probably rewritten to justify her behavior.

A divorce is way better than having to explain to your children that Mommy wrecked a family because she selfishly thought having a boyfriend would fix things.

She's wrecking her husband's and her children's lives with this outside "relationship".


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base. She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort.
> 
> I did suggest through a friend that she could try harder, don't just try to tell him or make your point with some frustration. YELL AND YELL AND YELL AND YELL, HAVE A WEEK HAVING AN ALL OUT BATTLE AND WAR AND STAND UP TO HIM, nicely trying to make your points seems to be accomplishing nothing
> 
> ...


Who told you all this, about him being such a horrible husband, her? If so, don't believe it.. cheaters lie and tell people crap about the spouse to justify the affair. If you're not in the marriage, you have no idea what he knows or what she's really revealing to him. She doesn't sound very good or faithful to me, nor does she sound like someone I would believe or trust.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

I don't care how awful her husband is. If he is so awful she should just leave him instead of making herself into a skank. I don't get cheaters at all. If so unhappy just leave! Stop adding more people to the problem!!!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Hopefully he has a girlfriend on the side.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain.
> 
> That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him. Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat. She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood, he makes less but invariably seems to have something to complain about. She has tried to discuss their issues, suggest counseling, and sought mutual accommodation but he has done little.
> 
> He is a reasonably good father and she doesn't want to break up her marriage but there seems to be little alternative. I am not suggesting that in these situations people should blame themselves, I am simply telling one story. Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


LOL, sounds like you bought what she is selling. Same thing could be said about me, but no one bothered to ask why. If they did, they would have found out my wife was having an EA and possibly, no proof found, a PA. It's funny how bubbly a person is when they are cheating. It's funny how "moody, self-centered, and controlling, but invariably seems to have something to complain about" a spouse seems when their gut is telling them there is something going on.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Hopefully he has a girlfriend on the side.


And how on earth is bringing a FOURTH person into this mess hopeful?

There are apparently CHILDREN in the middle of this mess.

Bringing in a FORTH person and a SECOND intruder is NOT hopeful.

Sorry, that's just plain stupid.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Bobby---Your female friend---does not have to go all the way to the finish of a D---if things were to change----BUT D IS THE ONE MAJOR WEAPON SHE HAS---she needs to USE IT

Having an A---and subjecting herself to that whole mess---is the worse possible solution---also if her H---bad as he is---catches her----SHE WILL FOREVER BER UNDER HIS THUMB, known as the TERRIBLE MOTHER, AND CHEATING WIFE

Threat of D---then go from there----and if you ARE HER FRIEND---WHAT I JUST STATED NEEDS TO BE POUNDED INTO HER


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL, sounds like you bought what she is selling. Same thing could be said about me, but no one bothered to ask why. If they did, they would have found out my wife was having an EA and possibly, no proof found, a PA. It's funny how bubbly a person is when they are cheating. It's funny how "moody, self-centered, and controlling, but invariably seems to have something to complain about" a spouse seems when their gut is telling them there is something going on.


Ya I was gonna say the same thing...

The OP here has drank way too much of this cheater's kool-aid.

And given the number of posts the OP has, they ought to know better than to buy all that nonsense.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> And how on earth is bringing a FOURTH person into this mess hopeful?
> 
> There are apparently CHILDREN in the middle of this mess.
> 
> ...


More about karma. Cheater kool aid...now that's stupid.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Bobby,

From what you have said in your posts and how you defend her, it sounds like you are the OM.

Are you ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.





2long said:


> Then she didn't try hard enough. Period.
> 
> EXPOSE.
> 
> -ol' 2long


You have no idea if she tried hard enough. There are people who will not respond to real issues raised by their spouse, no matter what methods used to try to get their spouse to wake up give hoot.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bobby5000,


How long have they been married?

What % of their joint income does she earn?

She is the higher earner. If the marriage is bad, it's better that she get out before she gets stuck with having to pay him spousal support.

If she is this unhappy and he will not work with her to fix the marriage. She has obviously give up on the marriage. Why hasn't she filed for divorce?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I think you should hit it. Sounds like an easy target. And cute, right?


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> I think you should hit it. Sounds like an easy target. And cute, right?



That's very offensive. 

You are suggesting that a TAM member engage in adulterous behavior.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> That's very offensive.
> 
> You are suggesting that a TAM member engage in adulterous behavior.


Yes. That is exactly what I am suggesting. You are very perceptive.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here is my honest opinion:

You are claiming to be "friends" with an opposite sex person who you say "... is cute, pleasant, and up-beat. She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood". You also know intimate, confidential details about her marriage and what she supposedly HAS and HAS NOT tried to do to get her husband to work on marriage. 

Those are several GIGANTIC red flags that YOU are partially involved in an inappropriately close relationship with a married woman. If you were her TRUE FRIEND, you would tell her to stop telling her inner secrets to other men, and to invest the energy she is using to talk to you and instead to put that energy toward her own husband. 

He may not be a prince--I get that--but right now she does not need an opposite sex friend "supporting her" with excuses to commit adultery. Her DUTY is to forsake all others, and that would include you. 

By the way, I'm not trying to be mean and say people can't have friends, but you've clearly crossed a line. Be a true friend. Get out of her life and point her back to her husband.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Let me clarify a few incorrect points, no one suggested she continue the relationship that is her call. I have no interest in her; to the extent if matters, I have been faithful in a marriage lasting over 25 years. Likewise everyone I know has about the same assessment of the marriage and her that I did. 

Let me give you my perspective generally. There are varying reasons for infidelity. 

1. The philanderer. We have had two presidents who fall in that category. These people don't change and someone either accepts continuing adulterous relationships or doesn't. 

2. Problems with the marriage helped cause infidelity. That is this case. Here you have a difficult self-centered husband. Were this to be discovered, the only way the marriage could survive would be for him to acknowledge some fault and make a sincere effort to change. That is my point. 

Some people here are determined to divorce and that's understandable. Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal. If its combined with multiple lies and someone abuses your trust to continue it, that can make it even more outrageous. However, if there is mutual fault and someone wants to continue, a searching look at the marriages and perhaps one's own role is needed. 

That doesn't mean blind trust. If there has been betrayal, one is entitled to careful monitoring, checking computer, looking at passwords, phone, etc., but that seems to be the sole focus of this site. Just being suspicious doesn't solve the problems in the marriage, and making the infidelity the sole issue for discussion likewise doesn't either.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> Yes. That is exactly what I am suggesting. You are very perceptive.



And you are a BS? And suggesting this?

watch out, your character is showing


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some people here are determined to divorce and that's understandable. Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal. If its combined with multiple lies and someone abuses your trust to continue it, that can make it even more outrageous. However,* if there is mutual fault* and someone wants to continue, a searching look at the marriages and perhaps one's own role is needed.


See what I highlighted there ... that is where your logic falls apart. It is also why other forum members here are becoming flabbergasted by your responses. There is NO MUTUAL FAULT for an affair. The fault falls solely on the cheater. Her husband did not pull her pants down and push on her affair partners buttocks.

Another thing that is hurting your credibility is your sugar-coating of her personality. You've for the most part left out her despicable attributes (there are obviously several) and continue to paint her as a "victim" .. when she began an affair .. her family became the "victim".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> Some people here are determined to divorce and that's understandable. Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal.


The question as to why she does not leave him is important. Even more important in light of her infidelity.

If she thinks that here is no chance for the marriage to improve then she needs to leave him. This is only fair to both of them.

If she thinks that there is a chance to save the marriage and wants to save it then I think that the right advice is to tell her to sit her husband down and tell him that she really at the end of her rope.

Some will advise that she tell him about he affair. Others will advise not to.

If she tells him about the affair there is at least a 70%-80% chance that the marriage will end because men usually will not reconcile after infidelity.

So either way she has to prepare herself for the end of her marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> That's very offensive.
> 
> You are suggesting that a TAM member engage in adulterous behavior.


Really? I was thinking that Harken Banks' use of ironic metaphor was almost Britishlike in its intensity!:rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> And you are a BS? And suggesting this?
> 
> watch out, your character is showing


Careful. Let's keep this civil.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ironman said:


> See what I highlighted there ... that is where your logic falls apart. It is also why other forum members here are becoming flabbergasted by your responses. There is NO MUTUAL FAULT for an affair. The fault falls solely on the cheater. Her husband did not pull her pants down and push on her affair partners buttocks.
> 
> Another thing that is hurting your credibility is your sugar-coating of her personality. You've for the most part left out her despicable attributes (there are obviously several) and continue to paint her as a "victim" .. when she began an affair .. her family became the "victim".


There is mutual fault in the failure of the marriage. If she was so unhappy and he so hardened in bad ways she should have just left him and divorced.

She is responsible for her affair. But her affair does not now make him an innocent victim.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Really? I was thinking that Harken Banks' use of ironic metaphor was almost Britishlike in its intensity!:rofl:



Sarcasm is hard to pull off. Unless there is a clue given, it's up to the reader to determine if the remark is serious or sarcastic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Acoa said:


> Sarcasm is hard to pull off. Unless there is a clue given, it's up to the reader to determine if the remark is serious or sarcastic.


It's Harken's sense of humour.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

No one "makes" someone cheat. Everyone has problems in marriage, highs and lows and some are very poor at working on a better marriage but NO ONE holds their partner down and spreads her legs for another man or pulls her husbands junk out to stick it in another woman.

You are wrongheaded in the extreme to place blame for her trashy behavior on her husband.

Bad marriage could be 90% his fault, acting like a self serving skank is 100% on her and their marriage has 0% chance if she doesn't own that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bobby's problem could be that Bobby's friend might have two faces, the friendly, lovely face that she shows to the public and the 'real' face that she reserves for her husband.

I have seen this happen, I have also seen when the mask slips and they inadvertently let their friends see the less than pretty side of their personality that they normally reserve for the outside world.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm curious, is the "off again on again" cheating with the same guy or a new ones?



> A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain.
> 
> That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him.


Yes, Ele could be right and he "drove her to cheat." 

Sorry, Off and On doesn't suggest working on a marriage at all. So, while the clarification is about the husband being a mean, unchanging jerk, sounds like the wife hasn't changed either. You can't work on anything, with full effort, if you have a built in short cut. It's extremely hard to suggest she is working on ANYTHING if she is constantly, sorry "periodically" is a gas lighting word in this instance, cheating or the same man. She always has a built in out, if he doesn't meet her expectations.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

If you are in a good marriage or one you want to keep, you have to have a simple rule, there is no circumstance under which you would ever commit adultery. In my home state, this happened. 

A middle-aged accountant happened to be at a restaurant he frequented and there was a young girl crying that her car would not start. Graciously he offered to help try to get the car started but it would not turn over. No tow truck or repair facility could be located. He offered to drive her home and she was quite grateful thanking him and asking if he wanted a drink and he said yes. One thing led to another and they ended up in bed with him leaving about an hour later. There is no indication he had been unfaithful before that. 

About a week later, someone calls and asks about the girl. The man was involved in a bitter financial dispute and the caller explains he has a detailed tape of their dalliance and asked whether he would like to drop the proceedings or the complete videotape will be turned over to his wife. With various civil and criminal proceeding pending, he decided to report the threat to the authorities and confess to his wife. 

It is very sad when people make what can be a fatal error to their marriage committing infidelity particularly sad when they destroy a good marriage and create lasting turmoil for their family. 

Let me say I really sympathize with anyone who had to face this. It is sad. My goal was not to increase the pain anyone is suffering. In this situation, I am more an onlooker hearing much of the story second-hand. My only advice was to forcefully try to effect change to save her marriage and with that, I'll probably end my posts on this thread.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

According to the OP, she repeatedly cheats while repeatedly accommodating her husband and working on marriage issues. That's what I call an oxymoron.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Urge your friend to confess her adultery to her husband.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> In this situation, I am more an onlooker hearing much of the story second-hand. My only advice was to forcefully try to effect change to save her marriage and with that, I'll probably end my posts on this thread.


Bobby,

If you are sincere and truly want to do the right thing ... then you should not participate or facilitate her lie. She's lying to herself and her husband. Many will encourage you to "out" her to the husband ... that's the the courageous and justified act that you could do for her. Alternatively, you could encourage her to do it herself before you do it for her ... or you could simply disassociate yourself from her.

In my opinion .. those are the only honorable courses of action for you.

Take care.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, Ele could be right and he "drove her to cheat."


That's not what I said and I'm sure you know that.

Many people on TAM seem to have a hard time with recognizing that many BS's contribute heavily to the bad state of their marriages. For some reason many seem to think that as soon as they become a BS they are absolved of all wrong done to their spouse over years not matter what those wrongs are.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> Let me say I really sympathize with anyone who had to face this. It is sad. My goal was not to increase the pain anyone is suffering. In this situation, I am more an onlooker hearing much of the story second-hand. *My only advice was to forcefully try to effect change to save her marriage *and with that, I'll probably end my posts on this thread.



Unfortunately, that call to save the marriage should now come from her husband after he has the full truth.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> That's not what I said and I'm sure you know that.


 Yes, I know it isn't what you exactly typed. I took it the way it read to me in a snarky fashion. I'd explain that quotes denote sarcasm, but this is a touchy subject for you. So, I'll let you rail at me and move on.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> That's not what I said and I'm sure you know that.
> 
> Many people on TAM seem to have a hard time with recognizing that many BS's contribute heavily to the bad state of their marriages. For some reason many seem to think that as soon as they become a BS they are absolved of all wrong done to their spouse over years not matter what those wrongs are.


This is very true......but,

The problem lies in the fact that if the neglected spouse chooses this way to resolve the issue, then they typically become the villain instead of the victim of a bad marriage. It never ends well even if they DO have valid excuses for leaving the marriage.

Right or wrong, perception is everything. Once they cross that boundary line, and everyone becomes aware of it, every 'valid' reason they had for doing what they did gets minimized or even dismissed in the court of public opinion.

That's just the way it is.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry let me add, I disagree. Many posters do understand they contribute to the marriage problems and bad marriages. Thread after thread shows that the BS blame themselves. The problem lies in people not wanting to accept that cheating can be a consequence of a bad marriage.

Nope, not saying it is right at all.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain.
> 
> That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him. Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat. She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood, he makes less but invariably seems to have something to complain about. She has tried to discuss their issues, suggest counseling, and sought mutual accommodation but he has done little.
> 
> He is a reasonably good father and she doesn't want to break up her marriage but there seems to be little alternative. I am not suggesting that in these situations people should blame themselves, I am simply telling one story. Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


Cheating isn't an alternative at all. Making excuses for why it's okay to have a lover and a spouse is the foundation of cake eating and it's what cowards and lazy people do. Good people don't betray those closest to them like this and she should be ashamed of herself. She can be a better person.

In my opinion, you should let her know that her cheating makes you lose respect for her as a person (unless that's not true).


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You have no idea if she tried hard enough.


Yes I do. She didn't try hard enough if she felt that cheating was the next step, rather than divorce. There is a third step - try 2 get the H in2 marriage counseling with her. And a 4th step - be truthful, especially now that she's gone over the fence.



> There are people who will not respond to real issues raised by their spouse, no matter what methods used to try to get their spouse to wake up give hoot.


I was one of these. But when my wife decided 2 go ahead and have an affair because she didn't think I cared about her feelings (like that she was falling for her office mate), there was definitely nothing more I could do because I didn't know.

So, now that this friend is having an affair, there's nothing the BH can do 2 make the marriage better until she stops and tells him about it.

PERIOD!

-ol' 2long


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> Let me give you my perspective generally. There are varying reasons for infidelity.
> 
> 1. The philanderer. We have had two presidents who fall in that category. These people don't change and someone either accepts continuing adulterous relationships or doesn't.


Only two?  



> 2. Problems with the marriage helped cause infidelity. That is this case.


Sorry, utter and complete bullfeathers. Infidelity is caused by cheaters, not by marriage. 



> Here you have a difficult self-centered husband. Were this to be discovered, the only way the marriage could survive would be for him to acknowledge some fault and make a sincere effort to change. That is my point.


And you're wrong. That's my point. 



> Some people here are determined to divorce and that's understandable. Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal. If its combined with multiple lies and someone abuses your trust to continue it, that can make it even more outrageous. However, if there is mutual fault and someone wants to continue, a searching look at the marriages and perhaps one's own role is needed.


Anybody can "change" if they want. This BH may indeed be "difficult" and need 2 be more considerate of his wife's so-called needs (I don't believe in the "emotional needs" nonsense). But there's no reason 2 do much of anything while the affair is going on and is being kept secret. First, the BH is unaware of it. He might think things are going well enough. Second, the WW can't focus on her family while she's allowing this distraction with the OM.



> That doesn't mean blind trust. If there has been betrayal, one is entitled to careful monitoring, checking computer, looking at passwords, phone, etc., but that seems to be the sole focus of this site. Just being suspicious doesn't solve the problems in the marriage, and making the infidelity the sole issue for discussion likewise doesn't either.


Right, the affair isn't the issue within the marriage, but it must end before any reconciliation can happen.

Your house is on fire. Do you start fixing the electrical and plumbing, maybe install central heat and air? Or do you put out the fire first?

-ol' 2long


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There is mutual fault in the failure of the marriage. If she was so unhappy and he so hardened in bad ways she should have just left him and divorced.
> 
> She is responsible for her affair. But her affair does not now make him an innocent victim.


Of the affair, it does!


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> That's not what I said and I'm sure you know that.
> 
> Many people on TAM seem to have a hard time with recognizing that many BS's contribute heavily to the bad state of their marriages. For some reason many seem to think that as soon as they become a BS they are absolved of all wrong done to their spouse over years not matter what those wrongs are.


I have a better pic2re of where you're coming from now. I agree that both parties are responsible for the state of the marriage, not just before an affair, but during and after it. Problem is that during the affair, the BS doesn't have all the facts of what's wrong with the marriage at that point in time, and won't until the WS confesses.

But I don't believe I was absolved of any wrongs or shortcomings on my part in the marriage before the affair. 

-ol' 2long


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2long said:


> I have a better pic2re of where you're coming from now. I agree that both parties are responsible for the state of the marriage, not just before an affair, but during and after it. Problem is that during the affair, the BS doesn't have all the facts of what's wrong with the marriage at that point in time, and won't until the WS confesses.
> 
> But I don't believe I was absolved of any wrongs or shortcomings on my part in the marriage before the affair.
> 
> -ol' 2long


If you recognize contribution to problems in your marriage, then you are not one of the people I was talking about. What I was talking about is a general attitude that many, not all, seem to have.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success."

"I am not sure she wants to put her children through the stress of divorce."

Well, if she was so unhappy. she should have issued an ultimatum and if he didn't respond, then filed for D.

You say she doesn't want a D....well then she is engaging is the dumbest action she could have.

She has probably guaranteed that result when her BH finds out, and a far messier and uglier D than would have happened without the adultery.

Cheating isn't a fix for an unhappy M...it is simply the ugliest, lowest, most disgusting and immoral way to blow it apart.

You should tell her to knock off the bs and concentrate on fixing her M...she needs to confess if she wants to save it.

WW who end the A on their own and confess are far more likely to be given a chance at R than actively cheating ones who then blameshift their sh*tty choices onto their BH after they get caught.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

One big problem that I have with cheating -- by defintion-- is that the non cheating partner is operating on untrue assumptions. That is, that the cheating partner is faithful; there is nothing wrong; except maybe they are a little bit under the weather today; and so on.

Many a betrayed partner has then party to long term decisions under false assumptions that their cheating partner is fatihful to them; and wants to continue to build a future with them.

Decisions like additional children born; property bought and sold; major home moves; expensive university degrees or professional training may be paid for out of the household budget can be made at a time when the cheating partner is either outright lying or at the very least, making representations that they are all in with the relationship.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If you recognize contribution to problems in your marriage, then you are not one of the people I was talking about. What I was talking about is a general attitude that many, not all, seem to have.


I think what 'many' here do, is differentiate between problems in the marriage, and the cheating.

If a spouse is abusive, drunk, ahole.. and they aren't hiding it, then how does becoming an abusive ahole yourself solve the problem? I don't think the solution, or justification for being abused is to abuse that person back. Especially if they are being up front with the abuse, and you become covert with your abuse and sneak and lie. Now they aren't even aware that they are being abused.

So yea, it's not an attitude about we're perfect, it's an attitude about two wrongs not making a right. I liked the burning house analogy... Don't tell me that you burned the house down because I didn't paint the dining room like you repeatedly hinted at. So the pile of ashes is somehow my fault. That's just crazy talk. Unless you mentioned the part where you and your boyfriend were soaking the basement in gasoline and playing with matches.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> If you are in a good marriage or one you want to keep, you have to have a simple rule, there is no circumstance under which you would ever commit adultery. In my home state, this happened.


What a bunch of BALONEY.

Responding to a BAD marriage you DON'T want with covert promiscuity is JUST as STUPID and IMMATURE as trashing a stable healthy marriage.

I am SICK and TIRED of people trying to convince everyone that the state of the marriage is a relevant variable to the problem of a covert and promiscuous spouse.

If the cheating spouse choose to DRINK ALCOHOL rather than cheat no one would be blaming the marriage.

STOP making excuses and RECOGNIZE it's not constructive.

How stable or unstable a marriage is has NOTHING to DO with a spouse's response to cheat. Nor anything in secret for that matter : 

If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't drink.
If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't lie.
If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't act promiscuous/cheat.
If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't gamble.
If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't use drugs.

If my marriage were a healthy one, I wouldn't get violent.

It's all the same childish EXCUSE. It's not MY fault, it's a BAD MARRIAGE!!!

Why the HELL Is it that all these OTHER behaviors are individual but CHEATING for some ridiculous reason is the fault of the marriage???

Sorry, it does NOT add up.

Sure, let's not take any responsibility for your behavior, let's just BLAME the MARRIAGE for your lack of maturity.

Try AGAIN bobby.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Many people on TAM seem to have a hard time with recognizing that many BS's contribute heavily to the bad state of their marriages. For some reason many seem to think that as soon as they become a BS they are absolved of all wrong done to their spouse over years not matter what those wrongs are.



EleGirl, I hope you realize that expressing sentiments of this kind on CWI will only get you stoned.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> That's not what I said and I'm sure you know that.
> 
> Many people on TAM seem to have a hard time with recognizing that many BS's contribute heavily to the bad state of their marriages. For some reason many seem to think that as soon as they become a BS they are absolved of all wrong done to their spouse over years not matter what those wrongs are.


I contributed heavily to mine...and I got a lot of TAM'ers going _"Don't blame yourself or put yourself down too much. YOUR wife cheated"_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Wanna really help her? Help him? Help their marriage?

Then give him a call and tell him what's going on. Then stay out of it.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

davecarter said:


> I contributed heavily to mine...and I got a lot of TAM'ers going _"Don't blame yourself or put yourself down too much. YOUR wife cheated"_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was pretty terrible of us TAM'ers to do that to you. I'm sure you're completely responsible for your wifes choice to cheat. I didn't realize your situation, so I probably told you to work on yourself, to take care of yourself and to not blame yourself for your wifes choice to cheat. I apologize, I should have told you that it's your fault your wife cheated on you. You obviously contributed heavily to the problems in the marriage and therefore deserved to be cheated on and betrayed. 

We are bad like that us TAM'ers, always trying to paint the poor cheating spouse in a bad light and candy coating the offenses of the bad spouse that was neglecting needs and not spending enough time with them and stuff.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

russell28 said:


> We are bad like that us TAM'ers, always trying to paint the poor cheating spouse in a bad light and candy coating the offenses of the bad spouse that was neglecting needs and not spending enough time with them and stuff.



Damn straight. In fact, if it weren't for TAM I'd probably not be separated now. 

Wouldn't change the fact she is a lying cheating *****. But I would still be blaming myself for it like she thinks I should.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Acoa said:


> Damn straight. In fact, if it weren't for TAM I'd probably not be separated now.
> 
> Wouldn't change the fact she is a lying cheating *****. But I would still be blaming myself for it like she thinks I should.


It's funny how cheaters don't tell you it's your fault until AFTER they get busted.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It's funny how cheaters don't tell you it's your fault until AFTER they get busted.


They told you... remember that one day when they hinted that they might not be happy, and you should get MC? They forgot to mention the EA/PA with the co-worker, or the plans to have one.. or that they have been flirting with people and considering it, but that wasn't important. What was important was that you got a tiny hint of truth, and couldn't decipher the real meaning. They give you a ILYBINILWY speech, and you assume it's a bad day because it's inconsistent with all the person that's getting all dressed up and is all happy every other day (days they aren't fighting with the AP). So yea, you didn't turn 5% of the information into an action plan to fix your marriage, so it's your fault 100%. They on the other hand, fixed the marriage by bringing in a third party without letting you know about it, so they at least had a solution to the problem you've been ignoring. Next time they say "I have a headache, not tonight" You should realize it means "I've been seeing somebody".


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> They on the other hand, fixed the marriage by bringing in a third party without letting you know about it, so they at least had a solution to the problem you've been ignoring


I would be hesitant to use the term "fixed" to characterize promiscuous behavior.

w


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

​


Allen_A said:


> I would be hesitant to use the term "fixed" to characterize promiscuous behavior.
> 
> w


But while they are cheating, everyone is happy no? The mean bad husband still gets to drink and be abusive, and the wife in the OPs scenario gets to be promiscuous! It's win-win, nobody gets hurt. Even if they have kids, the kids have a happy mommy and a happy drunk daddy, so it's all wonderful. Cheating fixed this marriage, and the OP is helping by keeping it secret. She should even consider allowing her friend to use her apartment so her friend can cheat like my SIL did for my wife. That's what a true friend would do. Anything to keep her friend happy, that's the most important thing. Keep her happy, she deserves to be happy.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> ​
> But while they are cheating, everyone is happy no? The mean bad husband still gets to drink and be abusive, and the wife in the OPs scenario gets to be promiscuous! It's win-win, nobody gets hurt. Even if they have kids, the kids have a happy mommy and a happy drunk daddy, so it's all wonderful. Cheating fixed this marriage, and the OP is helping by keeping it secret. She should even consider allowing her friend to use her apartment so her friend can cheat like my SIL did for my wife. That's what a true friend would do. Anything to keep her friend happy, that's the most important thing. Keep her happy, she deserves to be happy.


That's not "happy".. that's called _high_.

And no, everyone is not happy.

If someone steals 10 bucks from my mattress every day for a year and i don't know about it.. I am NOT happy no.

I am getting ROBBED.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Someone all in a plastic surgeon to remove russell's tongue from his cheek.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

TheBaxter said:


> Quit making excuses for her. Divorce is ALWAYS an option. It is better than cheating, and by staying silent you are a co-conspirator. How does that feel?


So is suicide. That doesn't make divorce a GOOD option for a great number of women...or men to hear them b*tch about how much they shell out.

Right now, you are correct, she has a house of cards. One stiff breeze and it all falls down, but even a house of cards looks like a HOUSE and not, you know, a dingy apartment in a poor school system that she is stuck in because of the economics of scale which make many things possible for her family that a divorce would cut right out.

This doesn't excuse her, but divorce looks pretty crappy from the outside, much less the inside. If she cheats, he MAY find out and her kids lives MAY suck. If she divorces, her kids lives WILL suck 100%.

Keep that in mind.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> But while they are cheating, everyone is happy no? The mean bad husband still gets to drink and be abusive, and the wife in the OPs scenario gets to be promiscuous! It's win-win, nobody gets hurt.


Yes people get hurt, this is the most twisted logic I have ever read in my life.

The betrayed husband is getting exploited, deceived, and disrespected. So no, he's not happy, he's exploited, deceived, and disrespected.

And promiscuity is not a "win" for anyone... it ends up creating trouble, that's why it's _promiscuous_. Promiscuity is not a "win".

So yes, people DO get hurt.

If I have cancer and my doctor decides to not inform me, am I not still experiencing cancer? lol

Sorry, but that logic is just ridiculous.

People getting deceived ARE hurt due to misinformation or a shortage of information. They are exploited, disrespected, and continue to invest into an enterprise that is not operating as expected.

If you throw 200$ a month into a mutual fund and a year later find out the fund was a scam wouldn't you consider that hurt? lol



russell28 said:


> Even if they have kids, the kids have a happy mommy and a happy drunk daddy, so it's all wonderful.


Your sarcasm is deafening. But this twisted logic isn't helping.



russell28 said:


> Cheating fixed this marriage, and the OP is helping by keeping it secret.


It's not a fixed marriage no. It's a dysfunctional one that will eventually blow up in everyone's face.

Keeping secrets solves nothing.



russell28 said:


> She should even consider allowing her friend to use her apartment so her friend can cheat like my SIL did for my wife. That's what a true friend would do. Anything to keep her friend happy, that's the most important thing. Keep her happy, she deserves to be happy.


Please don't use the word "happy" to characterize an affair, it really does not help the argument.

OP is NOT going to pick up on your sarcasm.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

JCD said:


> So is suicide. That doesn't make divorce a GOOD option for a great number of women...or men to hear them b*tch about how much they shell out.
> 
> Right now, you are correct, she has a house of cards. One stiff breeze and it all falls down, but even a house of cards looks like a HOUSE and not, you know, a dingy apartment in a poor school system that she is stuck in because of the economics of scale which make many things possible for her family that a divorce would cut right out.
> 
> ...


The betrayed husband and the kids lives ARE already inconvenienced.

Infidelity does not exist in some magical vaccum.

Every minute the cheating spouse invests into infidelity is a minute taken away from repairing/resolving the marriage and parenting children.

Every minute, every hour, every day, every week, every month, every year.

If she spends two hours a day cheating, in six months that's 365 HOURS of TIME that the family got ROBBED of.

That's three hundred and sixty five HOURS taken from you that you will never get back.

Damage is done regardless of who knows.

Sorry guys, but i am sick and tired of the "what they don't know won't hurt them" philosophy, it's a bunch of BALONEY.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Technically infidelity is perpetrating fraud :


fraud
[frawd] Show IPA
noun
1.deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2.a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3.any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4.a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.

If you consider victims of FRAUD to be HURT then yes... what people don't know does HURT them.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> That's not "happy".. that's called _high_.
> 
> And no, everyone is not happy.
> 
> ...


But if you contributed to the conditions of your marriage, then you must deserve to be robbed and all your stuff given to someone else without you knowing. Then once you find out you've been robbed, your wife and her boyfriend just tell you that it's your fault they robbed you. You drove them to it because you weren't a perfect spouse and human being like they are.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

JCD said:


> So is suicide. That doesn't make divorce a GOOD option for a great number of women...or men to hear them b*tch about how much they shell out.
> 
> Right now, you are correct, she has a house of cards. One stiff breeze and it all falls down, but even a house of cards looks like a HOUSE and not, you know, a dingy apartment in a poor school system that she is stuck in because of the economics of scale which make many things possible for her family that a divorce would cut right out.
> 
> ...


So keeping the kids in a house where the dad is abusive, a drunk and jerk, and mom is a liar and a cheater, is a healthier way to raise children than being honest with them, trying to fix the abusive drunk or remove them from him, and trying to do the right thing and work on yourself to set a good example are no bad things? 

Holy crap, what the hell world am I living in now... Bizzaro world?

What you just did there, is what we call justifications for poor behavior. Keep that in mind.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> But if you contributed to the conditions of your marriage, then you must deserve to be robbed and all your stuff given to someone else without you knowing. Then once you find out you've been robbed, your wife and her boyfriend just tell you that it's your fault they robbed you. You drove them to it because you weren't a perfect spouse and human being like they are.


The OP is not going to pick up on your sarcasm R, you aren't helping...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I tend to resort to sarcasm when I read something so absurd I can't help but get irritated and feel like I'm pointing out what should be obvious even to a small child. Good and bad, wrong and right.. simple concepts, hard to grasp for some. Some folks here seem to think that two bads make a good.

Nobody is going to help this person, if they are even for real, they are looking for the posts that say 'you're fine' and skipping the rest of them. That isn't sarcasm, that's the sorry truth.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I tend to resort to sarcasm when I read something so absurd I can't help but get irritated and feel like I'm pointing out what should be obvious even to a small child. Good and bad, wrong and right.. simple concepts, hard to grasp for some. Some folks here seem to think that two bads make a good.
> 
> Nobody is going to help this person, if they are even for real, they are looking for the posts that say 'you're fine' and skipping the rest of them. That isn't sarcasm, that's the sorry truth.


It is sarcasm, and unfortunately that does not present your case any better.

I agree with everything you said, but people don't take well to sarcasm.

Ya, this person may be a troll. But if you throw sarcasm at every possible troll post out there, no that reads your post's gonna benefit from it.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> It is sarcasm, and unfortunately that does not present your case any better.
> 
> I agree with everything you said, but people don't take well to sarcasm.
> 
> Ya, this person may be a troll. But if you throw sarcasm at every possible troll post out there, no that reads your post's gonna benefit from it.


I really care what you think. I won't be sarcastic anymore.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I really care what you think. I won't be sarcastic anymore.


As I said, does not present well.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> As I said, does not present well.


As I said, I care what you think. Your opinion on what presents well is important to me. I look forward to future posts from you.

..and what I say is important. If I said it, it must be special.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm becoming more convinced with time that the OP is... ...how you Americans say?... ...the OP in this si2ation.

I could be wrong, it's happened before.

-ol' 2long


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

2long said:


> I'm becoming more convinced with time that the OP is... ...how you Americans say?... ...*the OP* in this si2ation.
> 
> I could be wrong, it's happened before.
> 
> -ol' 2long


If you mean the OM, then that's my line of thinking as well. Sad if so, and I hope we're both wrong.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

russell28 said:


> That was pretty terrible of us TAM'ers to do that to you. I'm sure you're completely responsible for your wifes choice to cheat. I didn't realize your situation, so I probably told you to work on yourself, to take care of yourself and to not blame yourself for your wifes choice to cheat. 1 - I apologize, 2 - I should have told you that it's your fault your wife cheated on you. You obviously contributed heavily to the problems in the marriage and therefore deserved to be cheated on and betrayed.
> 
> We are bad like that us TAM'ers, always trying to paint the poor cheating spouse in a bad light and candy coating the offenses of the bad spouse that was neglecting needs and not spending enough time with them and stuff.


1 - Apology accepted.

2 - Yeah, you should've!


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

Your opening post seems like it'd describe my marriage (minus the infidelity.) 

I come across as dour and introverted. My wife is happy, bubbly, and very sociable.

When we were having problems in our marriage. I was painted as a lazy, controlling, bad-tempered slob.

She never bothered to tell her friends and family about how she'd flip on the lights at 2am and start yelling at me. Or how she'd follow me from room to room, nipping at me, hoping that I'd finally lose patience, turn on her and begin arguing.

Hrm, she would tell her circle about that last part, just the end, though, where I'd "scare" and "intimidate" her.

Remember, you're only getting her side of the story.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> A close family friend is having an affair, which goes on and off periodically. First, the new guy is no bargain.
> 
> That said, I am not sure what you she can or should do. She has children. She has tried repeatedly to address issues in her marriage and the solution has been for her to constantly excuse and accommodate him. *Many people find him moody, self-centered, and controlling*, while she is cute, pleasant, and up-beat.



Perhaps that's because he knows she is a runaround. 




> She works hard, earns a good salary and seems to be almost always in a good mood, he makes less but invariably seems to have something to complain about. She has tried to discuss their issues, suggest counseling, and sought mutual accommodation but he has done little.


And what issues would those be?




> He is a reasonably good father and she doesn't want to break up her marriage but there seems to be little alternative. I am not suggesting that in these situations people should blame themselves, I am simply telling one story. Before undertaking this, she tried in various ways to tell him something was wrong, without any success.


Tell her to tell him she is having an affair.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> I am not trying to generalize from her experience, but some of the posts have been off base.


Why? Because YOU don't agree with them? You sure you aren't her OM?




> She did try to talk with him in multiple ways, nicely, sometimes with frustration, suggesting counseling having that rejected, and offering to change herself. Most onlookers would consider this a 90/10 marriage where she has made 90% of the effort.


So far you seem to only know her side of the story, or only care about her side.



> He has his own ideas about the way things seems to be and does not seem willing to change and I am not sure she wants to put her children through the stress of divorce.


You are being very vague about these so-called problems, and I feel that is by design.




> Doing this seems to be a way of getting herself into some type of fantasy world while in real life, after she comes home from a hard day, he seems to have just negative complaints and comments, though she is a positive and upbeat person.


You seem to be trying WAY too hard to convince us she is a nice person, and her H is a POS.

I think there is more to this story, because you are coming here defending her to the hills.




> Maybe at least subconsciously, she's hoping he'll find out and initiate the divorce relieving her of the decision to do it.


Ya, that way she can tell her kids, "it was daddy, not me" 




> He's probably someone who doesn't belong being married and lacks the will or ability to make the compromises needed for a successful marriage. She on the other hand could be a very good and faithful wife in the right circumstances and I don't think she is a chronic cheater, just someone frustrated with no way out. To be clear, no one tells her to do this but we understand it.


Yup, more defense of her and belching to platitudes how great she is, and how lousy he is.

I've come to the conculsion, you are either the OM, one of her family members, or you are her.

But in the off chance I am wrong, then send him an anonymous letter telling him she is cheating. That way something will get done, one way or another.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> Infidelity is the ultimate betrayal.


Ok, so if you believe this, then why is she this cute sweet innocent thing, and he is the bastard?

If she is engaging in the "ultimate betrayal", then you'd have to conclude her behavior is worse than his.

But you are denigrating him, and painting her to be a princess.

Sorry, it just isn't so.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You could tell her to stop. But ultimately it is her life, her marriage, her choice and only she can take action and actually stop.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> You could tell her to stop. But ultimately it is her life, her marriage, her choice and only she can take action and actually stop.


One could also choose to no longer be this persons friend, since they are such a toxic influence..

One could also tell the husband what is going on, to spare him any further abuse.. perhaps he can get help for his drinking and other issues, instead of getting more reasons to drink as his life gets gas lit and burns up by his cheating lying spouse. She has the information he needs to show him the way out of the darkness. It's selfish of her to bury her head in the sand. She can do it anonymously.. this 'friend'. I'm sure she'll do the right thing, she sounds like a stand up person (that last sentence was sarcasm).


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Behold... the rationalization engine working at top efficiency.

Those of you that have/are/or are suspicious of being cheated on, sit up and read this thread and Bobby5000's posts carefully.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Behold... the rationalization engine working at top efficiency.
> 
> Those of you that have/are/or are suspicious of being cheated on, sit up and read this thread and Bobby5000's posts carefully.


Wife cheats, it's the husbands fault because he drinks..

Husband drinks, it's the wife's fault because she cheats..

The wife clearly deserves to cheat, because her husband is a drunk, and the man clearly deserves to be a drunk because his wife is a cheat. It's all good. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here, move along everyone..


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