# "Old flame" Or "Just friends" EA



## darklilly23

Need some advice,

Lets say a spouse had a old flame, they became "Good Friends"
spouse refuses to cut off ties with this "friend" even at the cost of spouses marriage.

In your opinion is this within the asking rights of a marriage?
To cut ties with a old flame? And what does this situation look like from a outside perspective?


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## mablenc

That he is a priority in her life, if not "the" priority.

She's cheating and in the deep fog
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989

It is reasonable for you to ask for her to cut ties - but whether she accepts that is more to he point.

You clearly think there is a problem. If it was the other way around, how would she be with you?

She sounds 'entitled'. If she isn't cheating now, she will be soon.


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## Mavash.

That he matters more than you.

She'd rather be his friend than your wife.


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## darklilly23

Thanks for validating feelings, 

Spouse is Male and has made me feel nuts for feeling
that there was something wrong with the "friendship" 

I have always been uncomfortable
with it considering that there was a lot of "History" there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for validating feelings,
> 
> Spouse is M and has made me feel nuts for feeling
> that there was something wrong with the "friendship"
> 
> I have always been uncomfortable
> with it considering that there was a lot of "History" there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd do some serious snooping and continue to monitor.

As to your original question, if a spouse asks their other half to cut ties with someone of the opposite sex, then that should happen. Why? because the single most important person of the opposite sex is their own spouse.


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## Regga

"Because the single most important person of the opposite sex is their own spouse."-thatbpguy

Right on the money!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy

Regga said:


> "Because the single most important person of the opposite sex is their own spouse."-thatbpguy
> 
> Right on the money!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then how come didn't get a "like" from you?


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## Singleton

Two years ago my then wife told me that we had a "perfect marriage". Then she received an email from am old flame. She told me about the email and I said nothing. I felt so secure in my marriage.

One month later she filed for divorce and was with him. Three month later she dumped him too.

I hope this helps you make up your mind.


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## the guy

The good thing about "just friends" and if they are really *good* friends then they won't mind storing all the crap your old lady has in *your* garage..and paying for her face lift, car insurance and watching the kids.....

So welcome this "just friends" a-hole with open arms and pack your chick crap up and send it to his house.......after all what are friends for?

I hope you can see the sarcasim and the dumb @ss remarks??? cuz the reality is this "just friend" just wants a piece and when it comes to being there for her will this " just a friend be there for her or run back to his wife/girl friend?

So many time this sh1t is just a big fantasy and our chick fall for it hook line and sinker!

Until they get a taste of reality, and see that we are willing to let them go, only then will they start to second guess their choices.

Then again once we start to let them go ....maybe we are better off with out them!

Your old lady can only hope that her "old friend" has enough room for all her crap!!!!!


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## CreekWalker

Get a copy of "Not just friends" by Shirley Glass.


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## the guy

CW makes a great point in educating your self. Even though this book would help your old lady out, it will also shine a light on your sitch...........the fact is getting your chick to read it is the battle here.

In her melon she doesn't see a problem...until you make it a problem by breaking up her marriage by establishing boundries and making her face the consequences for crossing those boundries.

Sure this is over the top, but then again we all know were this is going to lead! So stop sharing your wife, and propose the idea that both of you will be better off divorcing......

I have a feeling your old lady will start to second guess her choices once she realizes that you are no longer around!


This isn't a controling issue, this is about you and what you want out of a marriage....you can't make her do sh1t...she will always have a choice.

This is about you setting boundries and making clear what you will and will not tolorate. Your chick can do what she wants. At the end of the day you can't *demand* respect....but you can command respect and pick the ones that will dig that kind of confidence.


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## strugglinghusband

They are called ex for a reason....and that's the only one you need for him to go 100% no contact.

Like CW said get "Not just friends" will open your eyes.
link below.

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## darklilly23

I have read not just friends and would like WH to read
It but it deals mostly with EA's where they can meet 
In person. 

And WH is doing every thing he can to prove
That this "friendship" is Ok and that he has every right
To keep it. 

Even though he has admitted he has feeling for 
This "old friend" and quickly took it back, saying
He was just confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

My own fWW ended up in this type of EA. Yours is apparently already deep in the fog. F-102 posted exactly how this would have came about.



F-102 said:


> It may have gone something like this:
> 
> They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"
> 
> Then it would have morphed into talk about:
> 
> What they've been doing since they parted
> Their significant others since they parted
> Their families
> Their favorite music, movies, etc.
> Their spouses
> You
> Your job
> How your job keeps you away
> How lonely she gets when you're away
> How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
> How she loves talking to him
> How she gets "bored" talking to you
> How you don't always listen
> How you're not "perfect"
> How you can be so insensitive sometimes
> How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
> How he understands her
> How he knows how to make her feel good
> How you fail at this
> How you are such an a**hole
> How she feels young again
> How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
> How he's a better man than you'll ever be
> How she wants to see him again
> How they can meet under the radar
> How she's thought of leaving you
> How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
> How he's her soul mate
> How she made a big mistake leaving him
> How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
> How they were meant to be together...
> 
> ...get the picture?


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## darklilly23

So lordmeyham, do you have your story posted somewhere? or know of others with the same type of story?

I am trying desperately to understand these types of EAs long term, long distance, "old flame/just a friend" hard to pin down.

There seems to be very little information out there on them.


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## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> I have read not just friends and would like WH to read
> It but it deals mostly with EA's where they can meet
> In person.
> 
> 
> And WH is doing every thing he can to prove
> That this "friendship" is Ok and that he has every right
> To keep it.
> 
> This is very telling, putting a so called friend above his wife, how would he feel if you were doing this? putting another man above him.
> 
> Even though he has admitted he has feeling for
> This "old friend" and quickly took it back, saying
> He was just confused.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh yes he's confused all right, its called cake eating, he wants to keep you both and enjoy it with a scoop of ice cream to boot, maybe it's time for you to get him unconfused?
"Her or me honey, her or me, choose wisely"


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## darklilly23

Singleton said:


> Two years ago my then wife told me that we had a "perfect marriage". Then she received an email from am old flame. She told me about the email and I said nothing. I felt so secure in my marriage.
> 
> One month later she filed for divorce and was with him. Three month later she dumped him too.
> 
> I hope this helps you make up your mind.



Singleton, thank you, your story does help, is your story posted somewhere? I know my marriage is in trouble over this issue and has been for a long time.

I wanted very much to believe otherwise. Sometimes if it walks like a duck, well its hard to make it not be a duck by putting a really stylish hat on it.


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## LoriC

I had an EA with an old flame. It was my very first boyfriend. We re-connected on FB. Started out innocent enough. I commented on a picture he posted and the rest is history. Thankfully he lived hours away from me or who knows what would have happened. 

You are 100% within your rights as the spouse to insist this friendship end yesterday. These things often start out innocent enough but remember there is a history there and old feelings can resurface. Believe me I know.


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## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> Oh yes he's confused all right, its called cake eating, he wants to keep you both and enjoy it with a scoop of ice cream to boot, maybe it's time for you to get him unconfused?
> "Her or me honey, her or me, choose wisely"


Yep, have already done the "her or me thing", and it seems that he just can't live with out her.:scratchhead:


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## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Yep, have already done the "her or me thing", and it seems that he just can't live with out her.:scratchhead:


Did you mean it? like pack your sh1t and time for you to go, what ever you say you are prepared to do, you have to follow thru, sounds like he called your bluff?

have you read the newbie link? its at the bottom of my post.


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## darklilly23

LoriC said:


> I had an EA with an old flame. It was my very first boyfriend. We re-connected on FB. Started out innocent enough. I commented on a picture he posted and the rest is history. Thankfully he lived hours away from me or who knows what would have happened.
> 
> You are 100% within your rights as the spouse to insist this friendship end yesterday. These things often start out innocent enough but remember there is a history there and old feelings can resurface. Believe me I know.


Thank you LoriC, It's a such a relief to have someone validate you from the other said of things, I am still trying to get WH to even remotely see any of this.

I think I have been gas lighted for so long I really doubt my sanity. 

I Have to constantly ask people "Is it Ok for me to feel this way?" Or is there something really wrong with me?
After all it's "Just a old friend" and there is no one in the world who I have put more trust into than my WH.


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## eniale

LoriC said:


> I had an EA with an old flame. It was my very first boyfriend. We re-connected on FB. Started out innocent enough. I commented on a picture he posted and the rest is history. Thankfully he lived hours away from me or who knows what would have happened.
> 
> You are 100% within your rights as the spouse to insist this friendship end yesterday. These things often start out innocent enough but remember there is a history there and old feelings can resurface. Believe me I know.


darklilly -

I too am living this "old flame" EA. My H started email conversations with an old college girlfriend. We are now 6 months out and I am having so much trouble still despite my H trying his bet to make it right.

I am sorry you are here. Definitely read "Not Just Friends".


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## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> Did you mean it? like pack your sh1t and time for you to go, what ever you say you are prepared to do, you have to follow thru, sounds like he called your bluff?
> 
> have you read the newbie link? its at the bottom of my post.


Yep packed and left, In a whole lot of MC they say what he is doing is unhealthy and wrong. and he believes no one else.:scratchhead:


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## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Yep packed and left, In a whole lot of MC they say what he is doing is unhealthy and wrong. and he believes no one else.:scratchhead:


So your back home with him or still gone? He sounds so far gone in the fog, you cant nice him out of this, no how... no way.

What his reasoning for wanting to keep his "friend"? say he gets in a car crash tonight, needs to be spoon feed and for someone to wipe his a$$ for him while he recuperates, is she going to this for him or his wife?


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## darklilly23

eniale said:


> darklilly -
> 
> I too am living this "old flame" EA. My H started email conversations with an old college girlfriend. We are now 6 months out and I am having so much trouble still despite my H trying his bet to make it right.
> 
> I am sorry you are here. Definitely read "Not Just Friends".


eniale, I am so sorry you are going through the same thing, I know how intensely painful and frustrating it is.

Did your H refuse to admit there was anything wrong and sweep it under the ever elusive "Just a friend" so you can't touch it rug?

I have heard the audio book Not just friends, It was very good, but because it deals more with classic EA's "Friend I met at work kind" I think my H would say that is not what he is doing.
But like I said I was very good for me to get informed>


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## LoriC

LoriC said:


> I had an EA with an old flame. It was my very first boyfriend. We re-connected on FB. Started out innocent enough. I commented on a picture he posted and the rest is history. Thankfully he lived hours away from me or who knows what would have happened.
> 
> You are 100% within your rights as the spouse to insist this friendship end yesterday. These things often start out innocent enough but remember there is a history there and old feelings can resurface. Believe me I know.


I wish my husband had showed the upset and concern that you are showing. He is so passive and figured it was just over because I had asked for a divorce. 

Without going to far into my story, the ending is happy. I initiated the no contact with the EA. Decided to fight for my marriage and still going to MC but it has turned completely around and is better than ever. The guilt I felt afterwards was almost crippling. I cannot believe I did this to my husband who I thought didnt care until he told me I was breaking his heart. Snapped me right out of that fog. Communication was key. And we didnt have it for years. That and a sexless marriage was the downfall which led me to seeking attention elsewhere.


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## eniale

DL

Fortunately my H did not ever tell me that they were "just friends". He acknowledged that what he did was very wrong. This EA last a very short amount of time but caused so much damage. This damage was definitely exacerbated by some other circumstances at the time. I am currently working on journal type timeline that will help to put my story together. In the meantime I am also seeking guidance from those here on TAM.


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## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> So your back home with him or still gone? He sounds so far gone in the fog, you cant nice him out of this, no how... no way.
> 
> What his reasoning for wanting to keep his "friend"? say he gets in a car crash tonight, needs to be spoon feed and for someone to wipe his a$$ for him while he recuperates, is she going to this for him or his wife?


Lol
I am still gone, trying MC but it is going nowhere fast, he is riding away, the wrong way into the "deep forest of fog".

I have thought often about the what if he needs to be spoon fed thing, "till death do we part" and all that, and it seems that no matter how much pain I am in, it can never overshadow how much he need this "old friend" in his life.

That is what baffles me so much, It seem that he wants another woman's spoonfeedn :lol:


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## pollywog

Same here. WH has always been firends with high school GF. They would talk every few months and I always knew about the convo. Then about 2 1/2 months ago I noticed a lot of calls back and forth between them, long story short, even tho I am told "we are just friends" there is a lot more there. Found proof, she said she loved him and could not wait for their "future" together. So now it is just in the stages of him moving out. He has been in guest room since we first talked about all the phone calls. 

I told him if they were just friends, then she could be both our friend, he said no that I would "run her off" or some such. She has always loved him, always wanted him and now she gets to have him. Sad thing is he is not the same high school kid she knew. She divorced her 3rd husband for cheating on her, so how is what she is doing any different? I am also his 3rd wife. Three time loser for both. Wonder how long before the "new" wears off and they realize uh oh, should not have been so fast.

We have had some issues the past couple years and I guess neither one of us realized what was happening right in front of our faces, we failed to act to try and fix the marriage and he looked else where. I told him to cut off contact, basically her or our marriage, he said no he enjoyed talking to her and nothing wrong with it. Everyone else but those two say it is wrong. 

It started with a text, then phone calls, then lunch, then he went to see her to "catch up on old times" and it snowballed from there. 

My heart is shattered, I am humiliated and hurt, but I will get over it and move on. Not my first rodeo.


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## eniale

DL-

Is OW married? I am not generally a revengeful type person, but because your H seems to be deep in the fog. I might suggested you expose this "friendship". As others here have said your won't be able to nice your way out of this. This is not something I did and kind of regret it. Now if I were to do it I think it would just be to make her (OW) suffer as I have been the last 6 month and I am not sure that really does me any good. You on the other hand are still trying to get your H to see that this is killing your marriage and sending you to a place that no one deserves to be.


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## Almostrecovered

sad to say but you ultimately you can't use logic or reason with someone knee deep in a fog

basically, you state - it's over and you go NC or I file


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## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Lol
> I am still gone, trying MC but it is going nowhere fast, he is riding away, the wrong way into the "deep forest of fog".
> 
> I have thought often about the what if he needs to be spoon fed thing, "till death do we part" and all that, and it seems that no matter how much pain I am in, it can never overshadow how much he need this "old friend" in his life.
> 
> That is what baffles me so much, It seem that he wants another woman's spoonfeedn :lol:


If you can laugh, you will be ok, really you will.....

Ditch the MC, not worth a rats a$$ while he is still in contact with her, have you read about the 180? maybe start doing one for you to help detach....a POSSIBLE side effect of the 180 is that he may see that your are checking out 100% and maybe it will open his eyes that he is truly loosing you.

So sorry your hurting.


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## darklilly23

pollywog said:


> Same here. WH has always been firends with high school GF. They would talk every few months and I always knew about the convo. Then about 2 1/2 months ago I noticed a lot of calls back and forth between them, long story short, even tho I am told "we are just friends" there is a lot more there. Found proof, she said she loved him and could not wait for their "future" together. So now it is just in the stages of him moving out. He has been in guest room since we first talked about all the phone calls.
> 
> I told him if they were just friends, then she could be both our friend, he said no that I would "run her off" or some such. She has always loved him, always wanted him and now she gets to have him. Sad thing is he is not the same high school kid she knew. She divorced her 3rd husband for cheating on her, so how is what she is doing any different? I am also his 3rd wife. Three time loser for both. Wonder how long before the "new" wears off and they realize uh oh, should not have been so fast.
> 
> We have had some issues the past couple years and I guess neither one of us realized what was happening right in front of our faces, we failed to act to try and fix the marriage and he looked else where. I told him to cut off contact, basically her or our marriage, he said no he enjoyed talking to her and nothing wrong with it. Everyone else but those two say it is wrong.
> 
> It started with a text, then phone calls, then lunch, then he went to see her to "catch up on old times" and it snowballed from there.
> 
> My heart is shattered, I am humiliated and hurt, but I will get over it and move on. Not my first rodeo.


So sorry you are going through this, I totally identify with everybody else but them thinking it's wrong.

And I feel you on shattered heart, humiliation and pain.
All I ever wanted was WH to stand up for me and protect our marriage.

Thank you for your story, I feel like I am not alone.


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## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> If you can laugh, you will be ok, really you will.....
> 
> Ditch the MC, not worth a rats a$$ while he is still in contact with her, have you read about the 180? maybe start doing one for you to help detach....a POSSIBLE side effect of the 180 is that he may see that your are checking out 100% and maybe it will open his eyes that he is truly loosing you.
> 
> So sorry your hurting.


 Thank you for your kindness,

Ditching MC as we speak,tried all the above does not seem to care.

He says he has cut contact "AGAIN" sigh... while we are 
"working on us", but from what he said about it it sounds like he 
just can't wait till we are over and he can talk to her again. 

Because apparently it's his natural state of being.


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## ThePheonix

98% of old flames a person wants to stay in touch with fall into one of two catagories:

1. Old flames they never slept with but wants another a shot at it.

2. Old flames they slept with and want another go at it.

To summarize, when a spouse gets mixed up with an old flame they are either doing what they did, or wanting to do what they never did.

BTW, "forsaking all others" doesn't mean everybody bout old flames.


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## darklilly23

eniale said:


> DL-
> 
> Is OW married? I am not generally a revengeful type person, but because your H seems to be deep in the fog. I might suggested you expose this "friendship". As others here have said your won't be able to nice your way out of this. This is not something I did and kind of regret it. Now if I were to do it I think it would just be to make her (OW) suffer as I have been the last 6 month and I am not sure that really does me any good. You on the other hand are still trying to get your H to see that this is killing your marriage and sending you to a place that no one deserves to be.


Ow is geting a divorce that's why WH broke a NC promise that he made to me.He just had to help her with her marrige again. I later found out he knew that they were over and just was not telling me.


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## darklilly23

ThePheonix said:


> 98% of old flames a person wants to stay in touch with fall into one of two catagories:
> 
> 1. Old flames they never slept with but wants another a shot at it.
> 
> 2. Old flames they slept with and want another go at it.
> 
> To summarize, when a spouse gets mixed up with an old flame they are either doing what they did, or wanting to do what they never did.
> 
> BTW, "forsaking all others" doesn't mean everybody bout old flames.


Lol,


So true :rofl::iagree:


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## darklilly23

Is IC ever good for WS to get out of the fog?

Any thoughts on what usually happens or how the fog lifts?
What causes them to finally wake up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989

darklilly23 said:


> Is IC ever good for WS to get out of the fog?
> 
> Any thoughts on what usually happens or how the fog lifts?
> What causes them to finally wake up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only thing I have seen, or experienced, which "lifts" the fog is the affair ending.

The rationalisation hamster will come up with lies, excuses, half truths - anything to keep getting the "fix" of the affair.

Of course, another way of looking at the "fog lifting" is the WS realising their only realistic option is to jump back into the marriage. It is then that they "realise their awful mistake" - the mistake is usually getting caught of course.

Either way, IC is no use as they will just lie to the councillor.


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## LoriC

darklilly23 said:


> Is IC ever good for WS to get out of the fog?
> 
> Any thoughts on what usually happens or how the fog lifts?
> What causes them to finally wake up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes yes & yes. I did IC and it definitely helped me out of the fog.


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## Remains

LoriC said:


> Yes yes & yes. I did IC and it definitely helped me out of the fog.


Did you want to come out of the fog though? Were you going to IC to save your marriage? Or did you go into it with a view to leave your husband and start a relationship with your 'true love and soul mate'? Would this work for someone who is stuck 'in love' and not really wanting IC?


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## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> Is IC ever good for WS to get out of the fog?
> 
> *Any thoughts on what usually happens or how the fog lifts?
> What causes them to finally wake up?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A 2x4 in the form of a divorce petition prepared by the biggest shark atty you can find. 

Go dark on his ass. Go 180 and stay 180 for your own sanity. 

Do y'all have kids? No - vamoose!


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## darklilly23

Chris989 said:


> The only thing I have seen, or experienced, which "lifts" the fog is the affair ending.
> 
> The rationalisation hamster will come up with lies, excuses, half truths - anything to keep getting the "fix" of the affair.
> 
> Of course, another way of looking at the "fog lifting" is the WS realising their only realistic option is to jump back into the marriage. It is then that they "realise their awful mistake" - the mistake is usually getting caught of course.
> 
> Either way, IC is no use as they will just lie to the councillor.


Yep I am dealing with the hamster big time...
since my WH sees nothing wrong, I fear that the only way he will want to jump back into the marriage is when it is over.:scratchhead:


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## darklilly23

LoriC said:


> Yes yes & yes. I did IC and it definitely helped me out of the fog.


Thanks so much,
Did you start out thinking there was absolutely nothing wrong?


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## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> A 2x4 in the form of a divorce petition prepared by the biggest shark atty you can find.
> 
> Go dark on his ass. Go 180 and stay 180 for your own sanity.
> 
> Do y'all have kids? No - vamoose!



Already went dark, left, WH did not seem to care 

No kids


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## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> Already went dark, left, *WH did not seem to care *
> 
> No kids


That's a huge red flag lilly. Don't waste another precious second on this unremorseful two-face. 

He didn't have the cajones to tell you what he really felt and wanted. Instead he was/is stringing you along - playing his little game of "my friend". 

Count your blessings! You don't have kids with this guy's dna. Get your due - see an atty and only communicate with your wayward through the atty. 

In a few years he'll be fb'ing you to "see how you're doin'" and will be 'splainin' to his worried new wife how you are just an old friend. Wait an' see.


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## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> That's a huge red flag lilly. Don't waste another precious second on this unremorseful two-face.
> 
> He didn't have the cajones to tell you what he really felt and wanted. Instead he was/is stringing you along - playing his little game of "my friend".
> 
> Count your blessings! You don't have kids with this guy's dna. Get your due - see an atty and only communicate with your wayward through the atty.
> 
> In a few years he'll be fb'ing you to "see how you're doin'" and will be 'splainin' to his worried new wife how you are just an old friend. Wait an' see.


Thanks for the links, very helpful.

I have thought the same thing so many times!
And the closer I get to being an ex, the more he seems to care.:scratchhead::rofl:


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## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> lol
> I have thought the same thing so many times!
> *And the closer I get to being an ex the more he seems to care.*:scratchhead::rofl:


uh-huh, predictable. His response is classic cake-eater. 

He was uncaring while he thought he was a gift from the gods to you. Now that you see him as a booby-prize rather than a gift he's gonna rethink. 

Why do you want him back? Is his 'equipment' gold-plated? Is his repartee so witty it keeps you in stitches? 

It isn't his integrity or honor... so........ what is it?


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## LoriC

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks so much,
> Did you start out thinking there was absolutely nothing wrong?


No not at all I thought there was a lot wrong with me. I felt like how I was having some kind of a breakdown or a midlife crisis. I knew I needed IC.


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## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> uh-huh, predictable. His response is classic cake-eater.
> 
> He was uncaring while he thought he was a gift from the gods to you. Now that you see him as a booby-prize rather than a gift he's gonna rethink.
> 
> Why do you want him back? Is his 'equipment' gold-plated? Is his repartee so witty it keeps you in stitches?
> 
> It isn't his integrity or honor... so........ what is it?


I think at this point I am just so desperate to get him to see something that is Dayglow orange and right in front of his face.
I don't understand why he can't understand.
It is nothing but a door prize but it feels like a lot.


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## walkonmars

How long have you two been married? How old are you guys?

Do you both have a source of income? A source of familial support? mutual friends?


----------



## darklilly23

LoriC said:


> No not at all I thought there was a lot wrong with me. I felt like how I was having some kind of a breakdown or a midlife crisis. I knew I needed IC.


Ah, well its good you knew that you needed it.

I think my WH thought he would prove me wrong with MC or something.


----------



## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> How long have you two been married? How old are you guys?
> 
> Do you both have a source of income? A source of familial support? mutual friends?


Middle Aged, married for a decade, we have support, some mutual friends, both have income.


----------



## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> Middle Aged, married for a decade, we have support, some mutual friends, both have income.


Well, you do have a long history together so I understand your reluctance to just dump the a-hole. Still, you have the rest of your life to live in peace. He offers only pain atm. If you cave in now you will lose all respect and sanity. 

Keep your sanity. Work on you. Go to an IC and and heal your heart.


----------



## Chris989

darklilly23 said:


> Yep I am dealing with the hamster big time...
> since my WH sees nothing wrong, I fear that the only way he will want to jump back into the marriage is when it is over.:scratchhead:


I say this more often than I should have to, but you have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.

From the brief details I have seen, you are doing the "right" things.

I can only go from my own, very hard won, experience and my reading of these boards. In that respect, even asking your WH to attend counselling hands him control back and further boosts his ego - which is what affairs are often about.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen affairs a plenty where the WS runs off with the AP and who knows what might have been the "right" answer in those cases?

I believe you have to show that you are serious about ending your marriage, but let him know - in a matter of fact way - that if he ends his affair you will consider reconciliation.

My heart goes out to you in your situation. If I believed in God, I would be praying.


----------



## darklilly23

Oh yes,and he always erases NC letters, texts etc
he says he thinks I would take them the wrong way.

Does this sound fishy, I would think if you wanted your 
Spouse to believe you, and really cared about saving
The marriage than you would show the NC letter.

It seems that it all comes back to him thinking 
He is doing nothing wrong.

That or he really does not care. 
Any thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> ... he always erases NC letters, texts etc
> he says he thinks I would take them the wrong way.
> 
> ...


He says that out loud? that you will take them the "wrong way":rofl:

Please tell me he lets out a quick chuckle as he tries to maintain a serious face. Com'on is he a professional comedian? 

At this juncture, he's probably warned the AP that he's gonna be sending a bunch of nonsense in order to appease his wife. 

Go to one of the cheaters websites and see what kind of crap they advise each other with in order to pull quality wool over the deceived's eyes. 

It's full disclosure, full transparency, a NC letter given to you for posting - these are for starters. Whadda you think you're chances of gettin' any of these are?


----------



## darklilly23

Thank you walkonmars,
I know if I am ever in doubt you will get me out of my "Fog" 
I have just been at the "Mad Hatters Tea Party" for so long...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

You can tell El testosteronei superiori supermo that he must:

1. Go totally NC (through you)
2. Provide all his pw for all social media/email
3. Be only on shared fb etc
4. Come clean and answer all your questions as often as you ask them
5. Arrange for both IC and MC

Any chance of him doing these things (or any of these?)


----------



## darklilly23

1. I don't know if I can ever believe him 
Because he says NC but then breaks it and
He says he can be NC but that he will always want to.

2.and 3. He gets all high and mighty about
because he is "doing nothing wrong"

4. Oddly he seems to have no problem with.

5. We are doing both, but stopped MC because
They were telling him he was wrong.
So now just IC for both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## star2916

ThePheonix said:


> 98% of old flames a person wants to stay in touch with fall into one of two catagories:
> 
> 1. Old flames they never slept with but wants another a shot at it.
> 
> 2. Old flames they slept with and want another go at it.
> 
> To summarize, when a spouse gets mixed up with an old flame they are either doing what they did, or wanting to do what they never did.
> 
> BTW, "forsaking all others" doesn't mean everybody bout old flames.


SO VERY TRUE! I do not understand that at all, it is a immaturity way of thinking. Problematic .


----------



## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> 1. I don't know if I can ever believe him
> Because he says NC but then breaks it and
> He says he can be NC but that he will always want to.
> 
> 2.and 3. He gets all high and mighty about
> because he is "doing nothing wrong"
> 
> 4. Oddly he seems to have no problem with.
> 
> 5. We are doing both, but stopped MC because
> They were telling him he was wrong.
> So now just IC for both.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to say this isn't good. He's going to do what he wants regarding this "Friendship" no matter how you feel about it. So my question to you is: How important is this to you? Are you willing to throw him out over it to show him just how much this is not OK with you. I know I was ready to walk when my wife got in contact with an old flame.

Long Story Short: I discovered e-mails between my wife and an ex. While the e-mails were fairly benign, it was clear to me that this guy was fishing. And to top it off this guy lived fairly close to us and suggested that they get together one day to talk about “old times”. I told her I found the e-mails, and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex-boyfriend without my knowing about it. I deleted the e-mails on her along with all his contact information and I blocked his e-mail address. After a very heated discussion I told her if she wants to have a relationship of any kind, no matter how innocent, with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave the marriage first; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. After a week of not speaking with me, she agreed not to contact him again.

So are you willing to try something like that?


----------



## star2916

walkonmars said:


> uh-huh, predictable. His response is classic cake-eater.
> 
> He was uncaring while he thought he was a gift from the gods to you. Now that you see him as a booby-prize rather than a gift he's gonna rethink.
> 
> Why do you want him back? Is his 'equipment' gold-plated? Is his repartee so witty it keeps you in stitches?
> 
> It isn't his integrity or honor... so........ what is it?


Excellent!


----------



## darklilly23

The Middleman said:


> I have to say this isn't good. He's going to do what he wants regarding this "Friendship" no matter how you feel about it. So my question to you is: How important is this to you? Are you willing to throw him out over it to show him just how much this is not OK with you. I know I was ready to walk when my wife got in contact with an old flame.
> 
> Long Story Short: I discovered e-mails between my wife and an ex. While the e-mails were fairly benign, it was clear to me that this guy was fishing. And to top it off this guy lived fairly close to us and suggested that they get together one day to talk about “old times”. I told her I found the e-mails, and I said that I didn't like her being in contact with an ex-boyfriend without my knowing about it. I deleted the e-mails on her along with all his contact information and I blocked his e-mail address. After a very heated discussion I told her if she wants to have a relationship of any kind, no matter how innocent, with her old HS boyfriend, she has to leave the marriage first; I had no plans to make it easy for another guy to hit on her. After a week of not speaking with me, she agreed not to contact him again.
> 
> 
> So are you willing to try something like that?



Than you for your story Middleman! Sounds so much like mine,

I have been separated for quite sometime now, gone dark, made it clear 
I will not live with this OW lurking around anymore esp now that
she is getting a Divorce, and when she called breaking NC this last time
It was to "work on her marriage" (which btw was already over) aka cry on my WH shoulder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rugs

I (unhappily married) was contacted by a few old flames (all admitted they were very happily married and I had no reason to doubt them).

I exchanged one email with each of my exes catching up on life and kids, etc. and that was it.

I will ALWAYS love my ex boyfriends and we mostly ended on ok terms but what good can come of such contact. Being familiar with someone from your past that makes you feel young and think about the carefree good times are how easy affairs start.

I truly think in my case my ex boyfriends just wanted to say hi but what is the point of keeping contact when one or both are married. I don't get it. 

I think if your spouse or SO asks you to stop because it makes them uncomfortable, you should stop. It is very disrespectful.


----------



## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> Than you for your story Middleman! Sounds so much like mine,
> 
> I have been separated for quite sometime now, gone dark, made it clear
> I will not live with this OW lurking around anymore esp now that
> she is getting a Divorce, and when she called breaking NC this last time
> It was to "work on her marriage" (which btw was already over) aka cry on my WH shoulder.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are doing the right thing then. Maybe he'll wake up, maybe not, but you deserve better. Just let him know you won't wait forever for him to do the right thing. Filing for divorce should send the message, if separating didn't. The fact that he left MC says he's not committed (I don't believe in "The Fog")


----------



## darklilly23

Does anyone here think that because WH 
Is showing no signs of remorse and the fact that
I asked if he was going to contact her the sec
we were over? And he answered enthusiastically yes.
Means that

1.That he wants out so he can be with her?
2. That he is still in contact with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

Personally I think his response proves he's a disprespectful, reprehensible, unremoreseful A-hole (yes, with a capital A)


----------



## The Middleman

walkonmars said:


> Personally I think his response proves he's a disprespectful, reprehensible, unremoreseful A-hole (yes, with a capital A)


:iagree:




darklilly23 said:


> Does anyone here think that because WH
> Is showing no signs of remorse and the fact that
> I asked if he was going to contact her the sec
> we were over? And he answered enthusiastically yes.
> Means that
> 
> 1.That he wants out so he can be with her?


This is what I would first assume.

However it could just be that he is saying "I'll walk away before I let her tell me who I can and can not speak with". If this true then *walkonmars* is right, he's an A-hole.



darklilly23 said:


> 2. That he is still in contact with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take that to the bank, he's still in touch with her, either out of affection for her or stubbornness. 

Once again, you have a right to reasonable boundaries in your marriage and I don't think you are being unreasonable. My wife could have easily left me when I blocked her from e-mailing the EX, but it was a risk that I was willing to take.


----------



## alte Dame

Anyone who is willing to ruin a marriage for the 'principle of friendship' shouldn't be in the marriage. To me, it doesn't matter whether he has brainwashed himself into believing he's standing on principle or whether he's actually aware in his little brain that he is in an EA. Either way, he doesn't respect his W.

You've left and gone dark and made it clear that you won't tolerate having her in your marriage. He knows, though, that you will take him back if he sees the light. It seems to me that his brand of block-headedness will be dented only by the ultimate consequences. Several people here have advised this.

Right now, his ego is huge because he has two women fighting over him, two women willing to go to the mat for him. If you take that deep breath and file the papers, he will likely find himself without either woman, since the grass is usually not greener.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

darklilly23 said:


> Does anyone here think that because WH
> Is showing no signs of remorse and the fact that
> I asked if he was going to contact her the sec
> we were over? And he answered enthusiastically yes.
> Means that
> 
> 1.That he wants out so he can be with her?
> 2. That he is still in contact with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does 1 or 2 make any difference?


> I asked if he was going to contact her the sec
> we were over? And he answered enthusiastically yes.


My had an EA and we are working on things. I had her bags packed and internet divorce papers signed over too many texts. The above quote, she would have been out of my house. 

Yes, if another person replaces me, "ours" becomes "mine."I do not share my wife with other "men." I am selfish that way.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Mr.darklilly23 will you have this woman to be your wedded wife? (I will) Will you love
and comfort her, honor and keep her, in sickness and in health, and *forsaking all others,* *keep yourself only unto her as **long
as you both shall live? *(I will)


I guess he is not a man of his word, you would think a man so seemingly stubborn would be.....

Going dark, detaching for YOU (180) and serving him with divorce papers, may be your best option at this point.

Like Alte is saying I'm sure having two woman vie for his affection is probably stoking his ego big time, wonder why she is getting divorced?if its' even true? her husband might be an ally?


----------



## Gabriel

I have a lot to say about this. Go to my first ever thread. My W had an EA with a guy friend of hers - they were friends for 20 years. Never had a romance before the EA though.

Some people on here know the battle I waged and (so far) have won with my W about this. She said after her EA, that she stopped feeling that way about him, and he was too (I knew him also), so she demanded to stay "just friends" with him after the EA. 

After DDay 1, they went NC for 10 months. Then she resumed contact, and I didn't catch it for 6 months. At DDay 2, my W, instead of surrendering, demanded to keep him as a friend, and offered to copy me on every piece of correspondence between them, which was to be limited to email.

I tried this for 2-3 weeks, and got sick of feeling a punch to the gut every time an email was sent or received. I had another thread about this, that went to 700 posts in a week. I had to delete it for confidentiality purposes.

Anyway, once I realized how wrong this arrangement was, I put the hammer down AGAIN. Told her if they continued talking, I would have to let her go. She said, "You mean if I talk to him anymore, you'll leave me?". It was the moment of truth. I grabbed my balls and said, "Yes."

She immediately sent another NC email and copied me on it. As far as I can tell, that's been in effect for 9 months. But who knows, it's possible they found another way to talk. I've decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, but check her social media/email/etc from time to time. "Trust but verify". 

The point of all of this, is that the "just friends" thing does not belong in a marriage. If left unmanaged, it will likely blossom, unless you are all equal friends, or you are friends as couples. 

Your H is even worse than my W was. My W actually listened to our MC, who said, "You know you can't have the OM in your life if you want a healthy marriage. You have to stop communicating with him because YOU realize this, not because Gabriel says so." This hit home with my W. She didn't like it, but understood it. She's stubborn too, but not to the extent your H is.

Given the stuff he has said to you, and the fact the Ex is actually a romantic Ex who still wants him, I'm afraid you really don't have much of a chance here. The only way I think you can keep him is to remove yourself as an option. This pulls the safety net away. He'll have to realize, "sh*t, now if it doesn't work out with the Ex, I'll really have nobody." You can't be his back up plan any longer. 

I would quit MC - it's not working. I would go completely dark. I would get an attorney and serve him with D papers. He will either be glad and go along with it (which clearly would tell you that you are doing the right thing), or he will panic that he is losing you, and wake up. That's really your only play here.

Very sorry.


----------



## Acabado

Listen to Gabriel. He has been dealing with this sh1t for more time anyone should.


----------



## Gabriel

As a side note to my situation, my W was molested by her father when she was a teenager. This does NOT excuse her behavior. However, I fully believe it was a major contributor to her EA. I didn't take the extra special care I needed to of someone that had experienced that kind of trauma. Treated her like a "normal, secure" wife. I'm convinced that if I had, the EA wouldn't have materialized. Also, if she wasn't molested, my treatment of her would have been sufficient and also no EA. 

OP, with your situation, your H is simply just too into his ex GF. Not sure why they broke up, but my guess is she's been in his mind throughout your relationship. Social media, electronic communications, texts, etc, have made it too easy to "ping" each other and give him the little excitement or hit that feels so good. So it's blossomed into something way too big. Add that to the history they had, and it's curtains for your marriage.

The hit is too addictive. Make no mistake - he is an addict. You've tried to remove the drug (his GF) but he's too far gone. So now it's time to remove all support. He'll either run to her, or panic and come to you. 

Good luck.


----------



## darklilly23

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Does 1 or 2 make any difference?
> My had an EA and we are working on things. I had her bags packed and internet divorce papers signed over too many texts. The above quote, she would have been out of my house.
> 
> Yes, if another person replaces me, "ours" becomes "mine."I do not share my wife with other "men." I am selfish that way.


Philly,
I am sorry to hear that your spouse had a EA.
Thanks for the support. My WH makes me feel like I must really
not matter to him, like he is a horse at the gate waiting to be free.:scratchhead:


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Anyone who is willing to ruin a marriage for the 'principle of friendship' shouldn't be in the marriage. To me, it doesn't matter whether he has brainwashed himself into believing he's standing on principle or whether he's actually aware in his little brain that he is in an EA. Either way, he doesn't respect his W.


Thank you for this:iagree:
For the longest time I made my self believe that it was his "Principles" that were tearing us apart,and because It was about "Principles" it was OK that he watched me suffer and doubt him and his feelings for me.

But eventually I realized "Principles" was just a fancy word for "doing what ever he wanted to do".


----------



## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> Mr.darklilly23 will you have this woman to be your wedded wife? (I will) Will you love
> and comfort her, honor and keep her, in sickness and in health, and *forsaking all others,* *keep yourself only unto her as **long
> as you both shall live? *(I will)
> 
> 
> I guess he is not a man of his word, you would think a man so seemingly stubborn would be.....
> 
> Going dark, detaching for YOU (180) and serving him with divorce papers, may be your best option at this point.
> 
> Like Alte is saying I'm sure having two woman vie for his affection is probably stoking his ego big time, wonder why she is getting divorced?if its' even true? her husband might be an ally?


Yep she is being unhitched for sure, already tried that Ave.Too but no response.


----------



## darklilly23

Gabriel said:


> I have a lot to say about this. Go to my first ever thread. My W had an EA with a guy friend of hers - they were friends for 20 years. Never had a romance before the EA though.


Gabriel,

Wow, I have read your first thread and you are not kidding!
You have been through the storm of this EA stuff!
Thank you for posting on this thread, I will reading more of your story to be sure.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Sorry.....

What are you doing for you? not your marriage, not your husband, just for you, something to make you smile.


----------



## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> Sorry.....
> 
> What are you doing for you? not your marriage, not your husband, just for you, something to make you smile.



Well becoming a member of this group has given me the strength
to stop feeling crazy, stop some of the pain and even lift my head up enough to think about my future, which is a long way from where I was before:smthumbup:

I am so very grateful for this forum and the people on it.  

All these things make me smile


----------



## scae1212

darklilly23 said:


> Does anyone here think that because WH
> Is showing no signs of remorse and the fact that
> I asked if he was going to contact her the sec
> we were over? And he answered enthusiastically yes.
> Means that
> 
> 1.That he wants out so he can be with her?
> 2. That he is still in contact with her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


your H is so stupid, my H is too!
you are smart because you left him and i am not because we're still sleeping on the same bed.

Same 'old friends', same 'stubbornness'. no remorse whatsoever.
my husband is cake eating and i let him.
Your H will see her... they way my H will see her. 

your H and my H both has feelings for the OW. and being what they are (A-holes) they will not stop until they get what they want (god knows what is) or until OW bails out.

i am so sorry darklily... stay strong :smthumbup:


----------



## darklilly23

Scae, sorry to here you are dealing with a "old friend" 
as well, I know how frustrating that stupid label can 
be!!! 

Thank you for your post, and you stay strong as well!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Need some advice,
> 
> Lets say a spouse had a old flame, they became "Good Friends"
> spouse refuses to cut off ties with this "friend" even at the cost of spouses marriage.
> 
> In your opinion is this within the asking rights of a marriage?
> To cut ties with a old flame? And what does this situation look like from a outside perspective?


This would not work for me.

You should have set boundaries from the get-go.

You said spouse "refuses to cut off ties with friend/old fame/lover even at the cost of spouses marriage." 

To me, the spouse has already chosen.


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for validating feelings,
> 
> Spouse is Male and has made me feel nuts for feeling
> that there was something wrong with the "friendship"
> 
> I have always been uncomfortable
> with it considering that there was a lot of "History" there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You didn't list a lot of specifics. Can you tell us what made you feel something was up? Give us examples. How long did they date? Do they see eachother often? Do you hang out? Has their relationship/friendship caused problems for any of their other relationships outside of their friendship? How long have you been married for? How long has he known her? Do you know her husband? Is her divorce happening because of the relationship she has with your husband. How does she treat you? What did she act like when she met you? Hostile? Kind? Is she always around? How often do they talk?



darklilly23 said:


> Even though he has admitted he has feeling for
> This "old friend" and quickly took it back, saying
> He was just confused.


There is your answer



darklilly23 said:


> Ow is geting a divorce that's why WH broke a NC promise that he made to me.He just had to help her with her marrige again. I later found out he knew that they were over and just was not telling me.


This sounds fishy as hell. Did he play a part in the reason for her divorce?



darklilly23 said:


> Oh yes,and he always erases NC letters, texts etc
> he says he thinks I would take them the wrong way.


That's because he knows what he is doing/saying to her is wrong.

Sometimes things are exactly what they seem.

If he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't erase/delete them, especially since he knows it bothers you.

The bottom line is you and he have ever different boundaries.

It sounds like YOU are the OW in their relationship.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> This would not work for me.
> 
> You should have set boundaries from the get-go.
> 
> You said spouse "refuses to cut off ties with friend/old fame/lover even at the cost of spouses marriage."
> 
> To me, the spouse has already chosen.


Yep, 
I now know about boundaries, had never heard about 
them before. WH is the first and only person I was ever
with so I did not know this sort of thing was ever a issue.

I assumed a lot, I learned in 
a relationship not to assume anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Yep,
> I now know about boundaries, had never heard about
> them before. WH is the first and only person I was ever
> with so I did not know this sort of thing was ever a issue.
> 
> I assumed a lot, I learned in
> a relationship not to assume anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Now you know, life lessons sometimes they just down right suck the big one, but you are learning to pick yourself back up and carry on, remember one thing "darklilliy23 you are worth everything" you know what you will and will not accept, boundaries............


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> There is your answer
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds fishy as hell. Did he play a part in the reason for her divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> That's because he knows what he is doing/saying to her is wrong.
> 
> Sometimes things are exactly what they seem.
> 
> If he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't erase/delete them, especially since he knows it bothers you.
> 
> The bottom line is you and he have ever different boundaries.
> 
> It sounds like YOU are the OW in their relationship.


Yes she has caused problems for herself and other "Friends"
Not sure how much WH played a part in OW Divorce, he has been vague and trickle truth about it.

Yes I feel like the OW, he protects her like a wife. that's what the professionals tried to get him to see as well.  :scratchhead:


----------



## darklilly23

I am assuming WH has a prepaid phone and is 
talking to whoever through facebook and emails.
WH will not be transparent or accountable to me 
because he protests he is doing nothing wrong.

I know I have big moves to make,
It's just so not what I want, if WH would show any
Remorse or understanding or a want to change
I would at least have something to work with.

Any advice on not caring about what WH is doing or my
feelings on wanting to know what he is thinking? 
I feel like I keep checking in on a coma victim,
looking for him to wake up, even though the doctors
keep telling me there is less than no chance he will 
open his eyes.

Sadness 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> Yep, have already done the "her or me thing", and it seems that he just can't live with out her.:scratchhead:


I would follow through on this. Tell him he can have her. You've done everything you can. I would get the divorce in motion.

The bottom line is that he is A-OK with hurting you every day with this. He is alright with hurting you badly. You shouldn't be OK with that. That's not a marriage worth having, in my opinion.


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> I am assuming WH has a prepaid phone and is
> talking to whoever through facebook and emails.
> WH will not be transparent or accountable to me
> because he protests he is doing nothing wrong.
> 
> I know I have big moves to make,
> It's just so not what I want, if WH would show any
> Remorse or understanding or a want to change
> I would at least have something to work with.
> 
> Any advice on not caring about what WH is doing or my
> feelings on wanting to know what he is thinking?
> I feel like I keep checking in on a coma victim,
> looking for him to wake up, even though the doctors
> keep telling me there is less than no chance he will
> open his eyes.
> 
> Sadness
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


read up about the 180, learn it, live it.....sounds like he's made his choice very clear, he doesn't care about your feelings, only his own...time for you to do the same?


----------



## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> read up about the 180, learn it, live it.....sounds like he's made his choice very clear, he doesn't care about your feelings, only his own...time for you to do the same?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

darklilly23 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, doing the 180 in my actions, just trying to
cope with the feelings of "wanting" to check in on 
My WH coma patient.

I know there's probably no chance in hell he will
wake up, there is just some part of me that 
can't seem to understand and acept that fact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Yep, doing the 180 in my actions, just trying to
> cope with the feelings of "wanting" to check in on
> My WH coma patient.
> 
> I know there's probably no chance in hell he will
> wake up, *there is just some part of me that
> can't seem to understand and acept that fact*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is normal to feel like that, how could you not, you care.
Time, it will get better with time, I know easier said than done but it will.


----------



## walkonmars

Lilly you need to stop fretting about this guy. Your post today is even more revealing. He's gone (and really, good riddance). 

Start doing things for yourself and others. 
Sign up for a summer course at the local community college. Lean American Sign language - then volunteer your time with this skill
Take a ballroom dancing class, line dancing etc
Get a gym membership and get a good 2 hr wkout 3x/week
Call up big brother/big sisters and volunteer

Get busy with your life.


----------



## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> Lilly you need to stop fretting about this guy. Your post today is even more revealing. He's gone (and really, good riddance).
> 
> 
> Get busy with your life.


Thanks so much for the help, It does not take much for me to 
wake up myself.:smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

Your posts on here have been really vague, DarkLily so there is not a lot to go on as far as a backstory goes.

I don't know what it's like to be married to a guy who's best friend's with his former lover but I did date a guy who was super bff with his ex-girlfriend/best friend. It did not work out. It is unfathomable to me how someone would choose to keep their ex so close in their life while they have a new relationship. It's disrespectful to the current partner, I believe.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> Your posts on here have been really vague, DarkLily so there is not a lot to go on as far as a backstory goes.


Jellybeans,

I am working on getting my whole story together, I will probably
post for advice before I make "the move that I don't want to make".


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh and just to add about the guy I dated: he told me he had had other relationships end because of his closeness with his exgirl/bff. She is married and I learned after we stopped dating that their "friendship" has been a major sore spot for her husband/marriage.

Gee, I wonder why.

That's why I asked you earlier all those questions and the one about whether their friendship had affected other relationships in their life...

Look at it this way: How would your husband feel if you were best friends with your ex-lover and constantly in contact with him?

See?


----------



## VFW

Lilly, I am so sorry to hear of your dilemma. There is nothing you can do to get him out of the fog. The more you engage him the least likely he is to return, he has you and wants her also. You can't do anything that will change this, because it isn't about you, it is all about his own selfish behavior. 

Personally, I would not waste one more second on this Barney. You need to redirect your efforts into getting yourself in a better position for a better relationship.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> Oh and just to add about the guy I dated: he told me he had had other relationships end because of his closeness with his exgirl/bff. She is married and I learned after we stopped dating that their "friendship" has been a major sore spot for her husband/marriage.
> 
> Gee, I wonder why.
> 
> That's why I asked you earlier all those questions and the one about whether their friendship had affected other relationships in their life...
> 
> Look at it this way: How would your husband feel if you were best friends with your ex-lover and constantly in contact with him?
> 
> See?


To your story wow...

I can't see how this sort of thing would not cause trouble in other relationships wherever it gos.

Yes OW had caused trouble for her own marriage and her other Male "Just friends" Yes there are others, lol 

I really wonder if my WH thinks that he will find other girls that this won't be a issue with. I guess he is hoping to find somebody with "friends" of her own so he can do what ever he wants.

He says if he were in my shoes he would have no problem with it because he would just trust me. but seeing how he was my first every thing so to speak, he has never had to test that theory:rofl:.


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Yes OW had caused trouble for her own marriage and her other Male "Just friends" Yes there are others, lol


I am not surprised in the least about this. The exgirl/bff of the guy I dated said she didn't really have any female friends and felt closer to men and she couldn't really relate to other women.





darklilly23 said:


> I really wonder if my WH thinks that he will find other girls that this won't be a issue with.


He won't. Unless it's a woman who enjoys competing with his ex in their relationship. Yuck.



darklilly23 said:


> He says if he were in my shoes he would have no problem with it because he would just trust me. but seeing how he was my first every thing so to speak, he has never had to test that theory:rofl:.


Oh he SAYS that. But trust me, if the situation were flipped, he'd freak the fvck out. Men are very territorial about their women/partners. He is just trying to blow smoke.


----------



## darklilly23

Please calm me down,

OW is liking stuff that is very specific to what I like "online social site"
things that WH would have had to tell her about with her, rare things that I am interested in I can't take much more of this!!!


----------



## thatbpguy

darklilly23 said:


> He says if he were in my shoes he would have no problem with it because he would just trust me. but seeing how he was my first every thing so to speak, he has never had to test that theory.


I wonder if you sat on the couch and giggled and so forth and when he asked who you are texting/emailing with tell him some guy you met at lunch if would really take it well and he wants you to take his EA. And then when you hid and deleted everything immediately if he would never check up on you...

Answer: No


----------



## walkonmars

Lily you gotta stop checking up on her social site activities. 

The 180 is designed to help you avoid these types of meltdowns. Give yourself a break and lay off checking up on them.


----------



## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> Lily you gotta stop checking up on her social site activities.
> 
> The 180 is designed to help you avoid these types of meltdowns. Give yourself a break and lay off checking up on them.


Ok thank you, no melting.... sigh..

Just feel so betrayed...

Blocked her, feel better, can't wait until I block him too...


----------



## walkonmars

You feel betrayed? 

Well, that just proves you're not insane. You have been betrayed. The good news is you aren't rug-sweeping this and hoping that it will pass. That's your self-esteem in full gear. Good on you!

Tend to your own emotional well being and let the two clowns have their day. A day will come when they will both regret their actions. OTOH they'd need a conscience to get there.


----------



## darklilly23

Is it normal for WS to stop contacting you 
When you go dark?

So unlike him not to give a damm, he just started
IC but I have this sick feeling that something is up...
OW coming to town,or their EA heating up.

And all the sudden these guys from my youth
start trying to get in contact with me,
how do they know I am wounded? Do they 
smell blood or something? I would like nothing
more than to bring these guys around to 
get my WH to see that he would not like me
having "friends" that he knew were after me.
But I think that would a big mistake be cause I 
am so wounded atm.
I feel so like I have been dropped in to a shark
tank and the person that I would run to for 
protection is watching me go under,
such a sick feeling, anyone experience feelings
like that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

Yes I feel the same way darklilly. My WS hooked up with an old HS gf who he claimed to be just friends. At one time they were now it is a full blown affair. We are getting a divorce most likely, but going thru the motions, trying to agree on settlement etc. 

He has hurt and humiliated me and not sure I can ever get over that. So yes I do understand the feeling of being thrown to sharks and the one person that could save me won't. He has however been extremely nice this week. 

The sad thing here is, he cheated on me, but he now wants half my 401K and by law he can get it. Just another slap in my face. We still share the same house because he will not leave and by law I cannot force him to, he is a joint owner. 

Good luck with your situation. He would not like it if the situation was reversed. My WS said he would have no problem but he would.


----------



## darklilly23

pollywog said:


> The sad thing here is, he cheated on me, but he now wants half my 401K and by law he can get it. Just another slap in my face. We still share the same house because he will not leave and by law I cannot force him to, he is a joint owner.
> 
> Good luck with your situation. He would not like it if the situation was reversed. My WS said he would have no problem but he would.



I can't believe he wants part of your 401k!
What the He double hockey sticks makes him think that is some how justifiable? Is this really how far gone "the Fog" can make people?!?! 

If you don't mine me asking Pollywog, what makes him think that him going over to this "Friend" is anything other than subhuman?

In my stich, It's like oh you don't like this "friend of mine" that is "completely platonic" so now it's OK for me and my "Friend" to Explore Our old romantic feeling for each other. "Feeling that are completely not there" so darklilly should have never had any problem with the friendship.:scratchhead::rofl:

I am so sorry for what you are going through Pollywog, has WH ever admitted that what he is doing is wrong?
I bet you really feel like the whole thing has been one messed up mind trip...


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> In my stich, It's like oh you don't like this "friend of mine" that is "completely platonic" so now it's OK for me and my "Friend" to Explore Our old romantic feeling for each other. "Feeling that are completely not there" so darklilly should have never had any problem with the friendship.:scratchhead::rofl:


You put the self-justifying and blameshifting very well. If you hadn't been so stubborn and silly about his 'platonic friend,' he never would have taken things to the next level. It really is all your fault. You see that, right? :scratchhead:

Cheaters appear to do anything to justify what they do.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> You put the self-justifying and blameshifting very well. If you hadn't been so stubborn and silly about his 'platonic friend,' he never would have taken things to the next level. It really is all your fault. You see that, right? :scratchhead:
> 
> Cheaters appear to do anything to justify what they do.


Thats right alte Dame,

And I so should have let her come to the wedding like my WH so badly wanted, so much so that we almost did not get married.

I could have held up her train and carried her flowers for her,
I am such a bad person for getting in the way of WH and OW 
on my, ehmm I mean their wedding day...:rofl:


----------



## alte Dame

For the love of God. Your wedding day?

Your WH really is a putz. You may never get him to admit that he has been wrong, but you and the whole world know that he is. I hope that eventually will be enough for you.

Sometimes the most concise terminology hits home. Maybe you should just start referring to the OW as his 'girlfriend' at all times, to him and to everyone else & make it clear that he insisted throughout your marriage that he had a right to a wife and a girlfriend at the same time & this wasn't your idea of marriage. Keep calling her the longtime girlfriend.


----------



## pollywog

darklilly23 said:


> I can't believe he wants part of your 401k!
> What the He double hockey sticks makes him think that is some how justifiable? Is this really how far gone "the Fog" can make people?!?! If you don't mine me asking Pollywog, what makes him think that him going over to this "Friend" is anything other than subhuman?I am so sorry for what you are going through Pollywog, has WH ever admitted that what he is doing is wrong?
> I bet you really feel like the whole thing has been one messed up mind trip...


YES! He wants half my 401K. Even the attorney I spoke with could not believe it either. He said wait, what, he is having an affair but wants half your 401K? I said yep he does and by law he is entitled to half of it. His is a whole lot less than mine, but guess I get half it too plus half his hot rod  Not only my money but wants to sell the house too rather than me keep it. We have no equity so nothing to gain by selling. I hope to get a settlement together and file ourselves so as not to have thousands in atty costs.

Oh I used a Tupac saying "You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the f*ck on.” as a signature on my email and believe it or not it ticked him off and hurt his feelings -- really? My feelings and heart has been shattered and he cared nothing about that. 

I really hate we are all here for the reasons we are, but it is good to be able to talk and share our situations.


----------



## LoriC

pollywog said:


> YES! He wants half my 401K. Even the attorney I spoke with could not believe it either. He said wait, what, he is having an affair but wants half your 401K? I said yep he does and by law he is entitled to half of it. His is a whole lot less than mine, but guess I get half it too plus half his hot rod  Not only my money but wants to sell the house too rather than me keep it. We have no equity so nothing to gain by selling. I hope to get a settlement together and file ourselves so as not to have thousands in atty costs.
> 
> Oh I used a Tupac saying "You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the f*ck on.” as a signature on my email and believe it or not it ticked him off and hurt his feelings -- really? My feelings and heart has been shattered and he cared nothing about that.
> 
> I really hate we are all here for the reasons we are, but it is good to be able to talk and share our situations.


This is disgusting! 

I was the WS having the EA. When we talked about divorce I was so distraught over my actions I told him I would never ask for 1/2 of his 401K despite the law allowing me to have it. This guy has no shame. Karma is gonna get him!


----------



## darklilly23

The last nail...

WH broke NC again with OW talking to her about our Marriage
and her feelings for him, then went ahead and FB
Another ex of his, just to spite me lol
Icing on the cake
And the last straw...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> The last nail...
> 
> WH broke NC again with OW talking to her about our Marriage
> and her feelings for him, then went ahead and FB
> Another ex of his, just to spite me lol
> Icing on the cake
> And the last straw...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



what happened?


----------



## darklilly23

I said there was nothing left in me to break anymore,
So he might as well talk to her because no promise
He will ever make will be any good. 

Talked about going ahead with the big "D"
He finally showed me his colors in a way that
Left me with no more question about what he 
wants and what is the most important thing in his life.

Yes I know it took me bloody well long enough 
To see what was right if front of me, but I gave it 
Every last once of fighting I had in me to save it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

Do you have a plan/ideas on how to move forward?


----------



## darklilly23

Some plan,job change etc 
Really right now just in shock and staring at limbo 
From the outside is nice and is a relief.

I think now that I know he is not a option,
I can find out what is...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I'm sorry. He really doesn't sound like he is fit to be a husband. Really sorry. I know this is painful. He's not a nice man to be hurting you so willfully.

180 for yourself.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> I'm sorry. He really doesn't sound like he is fit to be a husband. Really sorry. I know this is painful. He's not a nice man to be hurting you so willfully.
> 
> 180 for yourself.


Thanks alte Dame,

I don't think my WH ever mentally left highschool, 
I think that if he even remotely wanted to work on
The marriage he would not have recontacted the OW
Or Added the extra contact of the other ex "because
he always wanted to"
It's not like he was addicted to ex#2 , it just felt childish 
and spiteful...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks alte Dame,
> 
> I don't think my WH ever mentally left highschool,
> I think that if he even remotely wanted to work on
> The marriage he would not have recontacted the OW
> Or Added the extra contact of the other ex "because
> he always wanted to"
> It's not like he was addicted to ex#2 , it just felt childish
> and spiteful...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He wanted his cake, brownies and ice cream all at your expense. Continue removing yourself from the menu, 180 & total darkness.


----------



## darklilly23

I need some support from you guys, 

After WH made the what I see as a aggressive "I am really no longer in to you or the marriage" move of recontacting the OW and another of his exs, just to put the cherry on top of (as I perceive it to be) his "TO H-ll with you nonverbal statement".

I am just wanting to get any thoughts or support before I start to file...

Scared, Heartbroken and Lost...


----------



## alte Dame

You want some support for your decision to file?

You have it. 100%. Your H is a complete arse and doesn't care if he hurts you. What kind of spouse is that? Someone who not only could care less if he hurts you, but rubs your nose in it?

Lots of support here, darklilly.


----------



## LoriC

You should have no hesitation whatsoever. How he could just rub your nose in it shows you no respect. You will get through this, and one day realize he did you a favor. So sorry you are going through this, I cannot imagine how hurt you must be. 

Filing will help you to move on and heal. Hugs to you!!!


----------



## walkonmars

alte Dame said:


> You want some support for your decision to file?
> 
> You have it. 100%. Your H is a complete arse and doesn't care if he hurts you. What kind of spouse is that? Someone who not only could care less if he hurts you, but rubs your nose in it?
> 
> Lots of support here, darklilly.






LoriC said:


> You should have no hesitation whatsoever. How he could just rub your nose in it shows you no respect. You will get through this, and one day realize he did you a favor. So sorry you are going through this, I cannot imagine how hurt you must be.
> 
> Filing will help you to move on and heal. Hugs to you!!!



Can't say it better than these fine posters. You have support. x 100


----------



## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> Can't say it better than these fine posters. You have support. x 100


WH had papers for me to file waiting for me with
A note saying that he was not happy about D but was resigned
to it ,"wishing me the best" and that he will always L 
Me I feel so sick to my stomach... 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

How nice of him. Look how fast he got out of the marriage.

GIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRL, you are SO much better off. If he can do this so quickly w/o a second though or attempt to try to save his marriage, he is NOT worth your time.

Get a lawyer and protect yourself.


----------



## alte Dame

He's not a nice person. He's been scr*wing with your head for years. I keep typing on your thread that I am sorry, but it's very true. He seems to be declaring the right to hurt you, as if it's something divinely given that you don't want to allow him. This is a person you are better off without no matter how much you are hurting now. You will see that. Hold onto that.


----------



## Busy Accountant

Hey Lilly

I have been watching your thread. Know that you have more support here than you realize. I am very sorry for the pain you have experienced.

Your WH said he will always love you? He has no clue how to love anyone but himself. His reaction the past few days prove that.

Karma is going to catch him quicker than he knows when ex #1 realizes he's contacted ex #2. The guy is toast.


----------



## darklilly23

Busy Accountant said:


> Hey Lilly
> 
> I have been watching your thread. Know that you have more support here than you realize. I am very sorry for the pain you have experienced.
> 
> Your WH said he will always love you? He has no clue how to love anyone but himself. His reaction the past few days prove that.
> 
> Karma is going to catch him quicker than he knows when ex #1 realizes he's contacted ex #2. The guy is toast.


Thanks Busy, I am so greatfull for the support
Here on this board, your comment about him only loving
Himself is something I need to keep in my brain at all times.

He says he is not in love with her but has feelings
For her, but his actions speak otherwise IMO.
It's the only thing that would explaine his willingness
To through away over a decade of our life's to be able
To stay in touch with a "friend".

I think the karma bus will be coming around the corner
As soon as OW realizes I am out of the game,

I think it has really been about her enjoyment 
that she could manipulate my WH, and she knew 
It was hurting me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

darklilly23 said:


> He says he is not in love with her but has feelings


Dude speak for "I love her, but I'm embarrassed to say it."


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> He's not a nice person. He's been scr*wing with your head for years. I keep typing on your thread that I am sorry, but it's very true. He seems to be declaring the right to hurt you, as if it's something divinely given that you don't want to allow him. This is a person you are better off without no matter how much you are hurting now. You will see that. Hold onto that.



Yep alte Dame, 

It's time for me to hold on to every strong rational thought that I have.

I have been trying to believe that I was the "one and only' in his life, for over ten years, because he would say it till he was blue in the face.
But his actions do not add up to his words.

I mean really, I can't have this "friend" in my life because it hurts you so here are the D papers?!? 
BTW you mean everything to me?!?

He even said, "If I go and get together with this person, you are always going to think that I wanted her more than you aren't you?."

I sure am not going to buy they are platonic friends:rofl: 
I am sorry, but this has made me feel sooo crazy...


----------



## walkonmars

darklilly23 said:


> I mean really, I can't have this "friend" in my life because it hurts you so here are the D papers?!?
> BTW you mean everything to me?!?
> 
> He even said, "If I go and get together with this person, you are always going to think that I wanted her more than you aren't you?."
> 
> I sure am not going to buy they are platonic friends:rofl:
> I am sorry, but this has made me feel sooo crazy...


LOL 
well he quacked like a duck and waddled away so... what the duck!

Be glad you got rid of the wart.


----------



## alte Dame

He sounds sociopathic. Everything is your fault in his warped world view. He has 'feelings' for her, but more for you, so you win him as the prize, but if he starts to feel more for her than he feels for you, then she gets him, I assume. Great logic. All he needs are the women who will agree to this 'deal.' In a polygamist cult, perhaps? I can't wait to hear what his logic is when he finds out that another man is interested in you.


----------



## walkonmars

alte Dame said:


> He sounds sociopathic. Everything is your fault in his warped world view. He has 'feelings' for her, but more for you, so you win him as the prize, but if he starts to feel more for her than he feels for you, then she gets him, I assume. Great logic. All he needs are the women who will agree to this 'deal.' In a polygamist cult, perhaps?* I can't wait to hear what his logic is when he finds out that another man is interested in you.*


Lily - make ^^^this happen! It'll do you a world of good.


----------



## darklilly23

walkonmars said:


> Lily - make ^^^this happen! It'll do you a world of good.


Can't wait...


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so a bit of back story, happened before me.

WH fell in love with OW in high school, she rejected him he continued to pursue.

They latter had a brief fling while OW was engaged but taking some time to "find her self" 
OW never told her H about what had happened. but WH and her became "good friends"
My WH helping her with her marriage issues. 

This close secretive relationship gave me the creeps, esp since the OWH did not know.

There is much more to my story but I am still a bit shy about posting just yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

These two are doomed, darklilly. Their relationship has never been open and healthy. I bet it will misfire now that it's not a guilty pleasure.


----------



## darklilly23

Guys, please help me have the will power not
To call or text WH, and scream that he is cheating 
On me, 
With him so readily getting me the D papers
I now have to assume he is only clearing his path of 
me. and that hurts so bad.

I want confession of guilt so bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Sorry, I missed this this morning. Are you OK? You didn't contact him, did you?


----------



## walkonmars

Lilly
You know your strength. You will find your way through this mess. He never will.


----------



## Gabriel

darklilly23 said:


> Yep alte Dame,
> 
> 
> He even said, "If I go and get together with this person, you are always going to think that I wanted her more than you aren't you?."


Your answer: Yes. Absolutely.


----------



## darklilly23

Yep, I contacted him alright after seeing he was now
FB friends with ex#2 

I told him to take down all photos of me wedding etc.
He said why? Did I do something wrong lol!!!

I got what I had to say off my chest, then blocked 
Him on my "Social media site"... 

Felt good...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> WH fell in love with OW in high school, she rejected him he continued to pursue.
> 
> They latter had a brief fling while OW was engaged but taking some time to "find her self"
> OW never told her H about what had happened. but WH and her became "good friends"
> My WH helping her with her marriage issues.
> 
> This close secretive relationship gave me the creeps, esp since the OWH did not know.


Wonderful. So they have been cheating all this time. 

Lily, I would let her husband know. Be so glad to be rid of this d*uchebag. I know you said there is a lot more to the story than we know and I hope you do share it.

In the future, anytime a guy you are starting to date can't stop talking about/to his ex that he is "best friends" with and rubbing it in your face, walk away. It is not worth it. These types thrive on inviting another person along for the drama. Maybe they were playing a game where she got married and then he wanted to hurt her the same so he got married and they keep using their spouses as ping pong balls to make eachother jealous. It's immature and stupid and they are idiotic.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> Wonderful. So they have been cheating all this time.
> 
> Lily, I would let her husband know. Be so glad to be rid of this d*uchebag. I know you said there is a lot more to the story than we know and I hope you do share it.
> 
> In the future, anytime a guy you are starting to date can't stop talking about/to his ex that he is "best friends" with and rubbing it in your face, walk away. It is not worth it. These types thrive on inviting another person along for the drama. Maybe they were playing a game where she got married and then he wanted to hurt her the same so he got married and they keep using their spouses as ping pong balls to make eachother jealous. It's immature and stupid and they are idiotic.


Thank you so much Jellybeans! Just what I needed to hear!
I just got done telling the OWH that I am sorry for not telling him sooner
and that I am getting a D. He already knows about WH and OW because OW 
told him about it after thay agreed to get a D. This is OW's mo
To have these little trump cards to hold over who ever she is with.

I know this for a fact, when she got married she sent my WH
Her diary which said my WH would always have a part 
of heart that her H never would. Also talked about all the other
Little boys that she "found herself with" while she was taking time to figure herself out.

Yah thats right, I got to read her diary because WH could not bear to get rid 
of all his past girlfriend trinkets lol, 

maybe I am just being "judgmental" as my WH says
but you can learn a lot about someone from a diary Esp if it is one
that they purposely give to some one that was nuts about them
For "Safe keeping" while they go and get married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly, I hope you see how strong you have become, I know you feel weak but in that weakness you have found great strength, you are on your way....
I told you before "This chicks got this" and she does.

Your STBXH and POSOW are butt munches and their lives will be filled with jealousy and suspicions of one another, never to know what trust and commitment actually mean, sad but they deserve each other.


----------



## alte Dame

strugglinghusband said:


> Your STBXH and POSOW are butt munches and their lives will be filled jealousy and suspicions of one another, never to know what trust and commitment actually mean, sad but they deserve each other.


So true. They both sound like they never got out of high school.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> So true. They both sound like they never got out of high school.


Thank you guys for your support, I feel so week right now
and you guys are really propping me up! Thank you!

I no longer feel like I am in a tug of war for my H.
I feel like he has flat out left me for OW. calling what he is doing ok
And blaming me for it happening!

Anybody have any suggested posts or threads relating to spouses
Leaving for AP? even though I am dealing with a EA 
I might be able to relate...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Thank you guys for your support, I feel so week right now
> and you guys are really propping me up! Thank you!
> 
> I no longer feel like I am in a tug of war for my H.
> I feel like he has flat out left me for OW. *calling what he is doing ok
> And blaming me for it happening!*
> 
> I hope you not buying this bull crap, not for one second, blaming you?? wow he sure is a piece of work (sh1t) are you now wondering WTH you ever really saw in him, his true colors are showing.
> 
> I see your true colors
> Shining through
> I see your true colors
> And that's why I have to leave your cheating ass
> So now I’m not afraid to let you go
> True colors……….
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have any suggested posts or threads relating to spouses
> Leaving for AP? even though I am dealing with a EA
> I might be able to relate...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> So true. They both sound like they never got out of high school.


I am just waiting to hear through the grapevine how much WH likes being manipulated and fuped with as much as she did with her former husband and myself...:smthumbup:


----------



## darklilly23

Yep strugglinghusband, the min he broke NC this last time out of spite I knew this was not just some "additive slip up" it was a LOUD STATEMENT! just for me.

I Knew his "True colors" for the first time.

The last shred of the illusion that I held of what I really meant to him or rather if not that, then his "SANITY" faded away...

Funny that you gave me the missing verse to "True colors"

That was the very song I was singing in my head when the straw fell on the camels back... 

Nope not believing his crapola, 
just can't believe he is that nutty :crazy:


----------



## alte Dame

Here are some threads where the H left to go with the AP:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...se-he-doesnt-understand-hurt-he-caused-6.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/68552-farmer-cow-puddle-play-barn.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/60811-not-handling-very-well.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57416-exhausted-but-still-love-jerk.html

(I still think the jury is definitely out with those two - they've never had a real relationship & his idea of what is OK is quite warped. Time will tell. I'm very sorry for your pain no matter what happens.)


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Here are some threads where the H left to go with the AP:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...se-he-doesnt-understand-hurt-he-caused-6.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/68552-farmer-cow-puddle-play-barn.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/60811-not-handling-very-well.html
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57416-exhausted-but-still-love-jerk.html
> 
> (I still think the jury is definitely out with those two - they've never had a real relationship & his idea of what is OK is quite warped. Time will tell. I'm very sorry for your pain no matter what happens.)


Thanks for the links alte Dame, I think they will help.

As for WH and OW they have known each other for along time
But she rejected him romantically, there fling was for a few days.
My WH describes there relationship as a "unspeakable bond" 
And called her a soulmate, but not like I was a soul mate of corse 
"Just a friend" soul mate someone who was meant to travel by his side 
Through out his life... Sigh...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for the links alte Dame, I think they will help.
> 
> As for WH and OW they have known each other for along time
> But she rejected him romantically, there fling was for a few days.
> My WH describes there relationship as a "unspeakable bond"
> And called her a soulmate, but not like I was a soul mate of corse
> "Just a friend" soul mate someone who was meant to travel by his side
> Through out his life... Sigh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Definitely unspeakable.


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for the links alte Dame, I think they will help.
> 
> As for WH and OW they have known each other for along time
> But she rejected him romantically, there fling was for a few days.
> My WH describes there relationship as a "unspeakable bond"
> And called her a soulmate, but not like I was a soul mate of corse
> "Just a friend" soul mate someone who was meant to travel by his side
> Through out his life... Sigh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





alte Dame said:


> Definitely *unspeakable*.


More like despicable.


----------



## Gabriel

So what's the status? Are you living under the same roof? Is D in process?


----------



## darklilly23

Gabriel said:


> So what's the status? Are you living under the same roof? Is D in process?


Living apart, about to sign papers...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for the links alte Dame, I think they will help.
> 
> As for WH and OW they have known each other for along time
> But she rejected him romantically, there fling was for a few days.
> My WH describes there relationship as a "unspeakable bond"
> And called her a soulmate, but not like I was a soul mate of corse
> "Just a friend" soul mate someone who was meant to travel by his side
> Through out his life... Sigh...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to pity this man. He's a completely delusional, pathetic little kid, that's who he is.
I can't wait to see how he's going to be used once and again by this woman. OW is going to be his punishment, trust me. The more time he's stuck in this delusion the better for you.
I see little chances for him to finnaly grow up. He might find himself in his 50s still deluded into this fantasy life and wasting his and other's lives. There're people like this, seriously.
The only "cure" is they find themselves by chance alone at a time and decide to give a shot to having a real relationship. This the only thing which can finnaly spoil the fantasy and delusions.


----------



## darklilly23

Acabado said:


> You need to pity this man. He's a completely delusional, pathetic little kid, that's who he is.
> I can't wait to see how he's going to be used once and again by this woman. OW is going to be his punishment, trust me. The more time he's stuck in this delusion the better for you.
> I see little chances for him to finnaly grow up. He might find himself in his 50s still deluded into this fantasy life and wasting his and other's lives. There're people like this, seriously.
> The only "cure" is they find themselves by chance alone at a time and decide to give a shot to having a real relationship. This the only thing which can finnaly spoil the fantasy and delusions.


Acabado, 

Thanks, you summed up my feelings very well ATM, I never
Knew that WH could become so messed up in his thinking,
He was or at least seemed to be pretty clear headed about
a lot of things, but not when it comes to this OW, 

I have no idea
what he is thinking except this is the worlds biggest temper tantrum 
of "this is what I want!!!" (Foot stomping in the background)
I know I was a way better match for him, OW and him have
nothing in common, except a bunch of highschool drama.
That and the sleep togeather a few times,

My WH says that he does not love her anything near what he loves me.
But he has feeling for her, can't live without her, wont cut off ties with her.
And has thrown me under the bus to keep there "little friendship"

Honestly I am just in shock and really confused about his motives, sanity etc...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Acabado is dead right. Dead right. He's immature to a destructive degree. If what he is saying to you is truly reflective of the way he thinks, he is a child having a tantrum because his parents are violating some silly, imagined, childish principle.

And you know, darklilly, if he's not the above, then at the very least he's an entitled cake eater who doesn't care about you enough to give up his cake on the side.

It seems to me that either way, you both have lost and that is so sad.


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Acabado,
> 
> Thanks, you summed up my feelings very well ATM, I never
> Knew that WH could become so messed up in his thinking,
> He was or at least seemed to be pretty clear headed about
> a lot of things, but not when it comes to this OW,
> 
> I have no idea
> what he is thinking except this is the worlds biggest temper tantrum
> of "this is what I want!!!" (Foot stomping in the background)
> I know I was a way better match for him, OW and him have
> nothing in common, except a bunch of highschool drama.
> That and the sleep togeather a few times,
> 
> *My WH says that he does not love her anything near what he loves me.
> But he has feeling for her, can't live without her, wont cut off ties with her.*
> *And has thrown me under the bus to keep there "little friendship"*Honestly I am just in shock and really confused about his motives, sanity etc...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He loves her, but loves you more and wont give her up, sounds a little contradictory?


His motive? he's a messed up self-entitled man child, that's all the motive he needs...sorry.


----------



## darklilly23

He just told me he wanted me to separate out the phones lol
You know so "I don't have to pay for his" ...
Has nothing to do with "her"

I asked him if he was planing a trip to go see her, 
And he said he was thinking about it.

And this is all my fault, I am ending the marriage because of a phone call...
Would have never felt anything for OW if I had not messed our marriage up...

You ever get the feeling with this stuff that you are just 
flushing a whole bunch of lonny birds out of the crazy bush?

Omg, I never knew all this crazy was there!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Yes, it is twisted. The man has been told by how many people that he is in the wrong? And he wouldn't be going to the OW if you hadn't driven him to it? 

I know it's hard, but try to stand back and observe. Try to give yourself some distance. Deep breathing....


----------



## Busy Accountant

Hey Lilly

My story is very different than most on here. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for a long time. I had already detached from my marriage when H had the affairs. They were the icing on the cake for me and were the straw that caused me to decide to D. H asked to work on the marriage and we are doing well now. 

Here is how I detached. It wasn't about changing my reaction to events. It was to change my expectation BEFORE an event occurred. I stopped expecting my H to be kind or supportive. I expected H to be critical of me. I built an emotional wall so that whatever he threw my way didn't hurt me anymore. It bounced off.

Expect H to see OW. Expect him to cover it up. Expect him to blame you rather than accept responsibility. Expect him to be a narcissistic teenager. Its kinda like a running back with the ball. You have no clue what twists and turns he's going to use, but you know which way he's headed. You will begin to see all these curve balls differently, and they will not set you back as much.


----------



## darklilly23

Separated out the phone lines tonight, kind of symbolic I guess 
Cried so hard over the phone just trying to tell him how to
take over his phone line ... 

Told him to tell his family thank you for being good to me over the years.
He heard me cry and called me sweetheart, which made me cry harder.
Reminded me of a time when I thought I had a loving husband and that I was his world.
He said he was sorry and that he never wanted any of this,

Which is kind of ironic because he is the
One that broke NC told me he was exploring his relationship with OW 
had the D papers waiting for me with a dear John letter.
And asked me to separate the phone lines.

Sorry just venting, crying and venting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Hugs to you, darklilly. Many hugs.


----------



## LoriC

Hang in there Lilly! You will be ok.


----------



## darklilly23

darklilly23 said:


> Thanks for the hugs guys!
> This is so hard, I sometimes wish it was a PA
> so he would have to admit he is cheating, if and when he flys out to see her
> It will be, and I am sure that is why he is rushing the D along.
> 
> He used to always point out that since I did not want to live in the same
> State as OW that I was soooo untrusting, lol humm I wonder why?
> 
> But I can not imagine how painful and a whole different kettle of fish a PA would be,and
> from what I have read of others unfortunate
> Story's is that it does not alwasys matter, even when
> You have cold hard proof of a PA they might still not
> admit to it or blameshift which is one of the most snakiest
> things you can do to a person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

EA vs PA, having your marriage shot or stabbed to death, the end result is the same.


----------



## Jellybeans

strugglinghusband said:


> Your STBXH and POSOW are butt munches


:rofl:

Lily--go no contact with him. Only discuss the separation/divorce from now on. He enjoys knowing that you are suffering for him, it gets him high, so cut his high off. 

From now on, treat him as if he were a colleague: stick ot the facts, no emotions whatsoever. Let him fall into the hole of his own making. Don't be there to support him or offer emotional support. Why should you?

It sounds like he has pined over her the entire time. She and he are wreckless. Involving other people (you and her husband) in their drama. Let go of the drama. Let them have eachother. do not discuss anything w/ him other than what you need to. Don't bait him, don't bring her up, don't give him or her the satisfaction. 

It will send a clear message that you are done playing the game.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Lily--go no contact with him. Only discuss the separation/divorce from now on. He enjoys knowing that you are suffering for him, it gets him high, so cut his high off.
> 
> From now on, treat him as if he were a colleague: stick ot the facts, no emotions whatsoever. Let him fall into the hole of his own making. Don't be there to support him or offer emotional support. Why should you?
> 
> It sounds like he has pined over her the entire time. She and he are wreckless. Involving other people (you and her husband) in their drama. Let go of the drama. Let them have eachother. do not discuss anything w/ him other than what you need to. Don't bait him, don't bring her up, don't give him or her the satisfaction.
> 
> It will send a clear message that you are done playing the
> game.


Jellybeans,

I think I do OK not giving any emotional support, because H does not seem to "give a flying" 
My own emotions are a bit harder but its getting there.

The hardest has been not baiting or asking about OW but 
separating out phone and FB is helping a lot.

Realty is hitting me.
I feel like I just fell from the sky and landed out in the middle
of nowhere with the feeling "WELL HERE I AM" 
I have no idea where I am but I know I have to start walking, somewhere...


----------



## darklilly23

Anyone want to make a prediction on what will
happen with my STBXWH? And OW?

Please give me a bedtime story for tonight...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> I feel like I just fell from the sky and landed out in the middle
> of nowhere with the feeling "WELL HERE I AM"
> I have no idea where I am but I know I have to start walking, somewhere...


You are on the path to freedom ... from cutting ties to all this nasty unhealthy bullsh!t that the has w/ this chick. FREEDOM, I say. Celebrate!


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Anyone want to make a prediction on what will
> happen with my STBXWH? And OW?


There is no way to tell. Only time will.

Don't worry about them and focus on you.


----------



## alte Dame

DL, your entire marriage has been tainted by this. It will take some time to unwind it in your head and heart, but your H never was YOUR husband. He was always keeping his emotional cake on the side. It is extremely fresh and painful now, but if you can work on the 180, you will begin to detach and your heart will slowly catch up to your head on this.

You ask for bedtime stories. Truly, I think when two people have had the unrealized relationship for so long that your WH and the OW have had, there's a very good chance that the fact that they are both now 'free,' will let them see for the first time that they've been yearning for a fantasy. I think there's a better than good chance that they will just fizzle out. You, on the other hand, will have your eyes fully open about your WH, in the end a good thing.


----------



## strugglinghusband

darklilly23 said:


> Anyone want to make a prediction on what will
> happen with my STBXWH? And OW?
> *
> Please give me a bedtime story for tonight...*
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They both get genital warts all over their bodies and become outcasts and then have to live under a bridge as trolls, all of the town folks will be terrified of them and tell scary stories about them...'BEWARE OF THE BUTT MUNCHES THAT LIVE UNDER THE BRIDGE they suck the life out of unsuspecting spouses".....they live a miserable existence, wallowing in their own misery.... The end


----------



## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> They both get genital warts all over their bodies and become outcasts and then have to live under a bridge as trolls, all of the town folks will be terrified of them and tell scary stories about them...'BEWARE OF THE BUTT MUNCEHS THAT LIVE UNDER THE BRIDGE they suck the life out of unsuspecting spouses".....they live a miserable existence, wallowing in their own misery.... The end


Awesome!

Epically Awesome!!!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doubletrouble

DL, I've been following this thread as well, and have seen this whole thing unfold. You are so much stronger now than you were even a month ago, don't you agree? I think you can agree. It's crushing to have such a dipwad for a husband, and it's surely not ever what you had planned with him. But life is for learning, and unfortunately a lot of lessons are the really difficult ones. 

My mother used to tell me the reason we get hard lessons is because we're ready for them. Still sucks, but it gives you a glimmer of hope that you are really, truly ready for the next step in your life. Make it beautiful!


----------



## pollywog

darklilly23 said:


> Separated out the phone lines tonight, kind of symbolic I guess Cried so hard over the phone just trying to tell him how totake over his phone line ...
> Told him to tell his family thank you for being good to me over the years.He heard me cry and called me sweetheart, which made me cry harder.Reminded me of a time when I thought I had a loving husband and that I was his world.He said he was sorry and that he never wanted any of this,Which is kind of ironic because he is theOne that broke NC told me he was exploring his relationship with OW had the D papers waiting for me with a dear John letter.And asked me to separate the phone lines.Sorry just venting, crying and venting...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know exactly how that is darklilly. My WS told me this morning via text "I do love you" - still crying over it. My response was if you love me how can you continue to hurt me the way you are, you don't do this to someone you love, you just don't. Not the answer he was expecting because he thought he would get an I love you too as the response.

I am putting our house on the market in hopes it sells quickly. I am going to have attorney offer him a settlement to see if he will take it and go, move on out of my life. I bet he will not take it because he wants more $$. How can he feel he is entitled to half my retirement after what he has done and continues to do. The skanky OW sends him pics/vids everyday of her going at it by herself. I mean nothing wrong with that if he was not another woman's husband! If I could just get one off his phone I would share them with the world and all their friends/family  but he sleeps with the freaking phone and it never leaves his sight.


----------



## darklilly23

pollywog said:


> I know exactly how that is darklilly. My WS told me this morning via text "I do love you" - still crying over it. My response was if you love me how can you continue to hurt me the way you are, you don't do this to someone you love, you just don't. Not the answer he was expecting because he thought he would get an I love you too as the response.
> 
> I am putting our house on the market in hopes it sells quickly. I am going to have attorney offer him a settlement to see if he will take it and go, move on out of my life. I bet he will not take it because he wants more $$. How can he feel he is entitled to half my retirement after what he has done and continues to do. The skanky OW sends him pics/vids everyday of her going at it by herself. I mean nothing wrong with that if he was not another woman's husband! If I could just get one off his phone I would share them with the world and all their friends/family  but he sleeps with the freaking phone and it never leaves his sight.



Pollywog,

What the [email protected] is with these people!? telling us thy love us while messing around with other people? I wish you could get his phone too...

I got another Dear John letter going over to the apt. to get more of my stuff, It said he loves me so much and we are both to blame and at a impasse (cake eating) that we can't work through, but he hopes some day when we learn more about our self's 
(When I start watching "Friends" and understand that having a "unspeakable bond" with another woman is hip and is just the way that the "grown up mature world works" and I come crawling back to his cake eating breath after he gets to go play with OW and date a bit) 

That we will find each other again and fall into each others arms.:lol::rofl::scratchhead:

Honestly Pollywog, I have had to just look at him as a mental patient, its the only thing that even remotely explains any of this... :wtf:


----------



## darklilly23

doubletrouble said:


> DL, I've been following this thread as well, and have seen this whole thing unfold. You are so much stronger now than you were even a month ago, don't you agree? I think you can agree. It's crushing to have such a dipwad for a husband, and it's surely not ever what you had planned with him. But life is for learning, and unfortunately a lot of lessons are the really difficult ones.
> 
> My mother used to tell me the reason we get hard lessons is because we're ready for them. Still sucks, but it gives you a glimmer of hope that you are really, truly ready for the next step in your life. Make it beautiful!


Thanks Double,

I do feel a lot stronger, lost ATM but a lot stronger.
I really feel like this Is a BIG life lesson but what that is I have yet to figure out.

I thought last time FXWH cut ties with OW I had learned my lesson, and I thought it was one about Trust. FXWH was going to his HS reunion and OW was going to be there and I was staying home because I had a "bad reaction last time" and he wanted to enjoy his trip.
(was mad that OWH did not know about their "friendship")but since he cut contact I was Ok with it. I did trust him and was looking forward to showing him that.

I think my lesson this time is about hearing what my gut is telling me and setting about boundaries, which up until two months ago I did not even know about, and would have been terrified to draw a line in the sand. because FXWH had me believing I had no right to.

I do indeed intend to make my life beautiful, once I figure out where the in the [email protected] I am...:catfly:


----------



## pollywog

I got two dozen white roses and dinner out --- guilty much? They are nice but in no way fixes this. 

Not sure why WS's think they have the right to do this or feel entitled to do whatever they want. They took vows and before they break them they should just leave and file for divorce. Figured we would have that talk he wants to but not tonight. He was not feeling good so went to bed early. 

He needs to just man up and go on to her and leave me to get on with my life.


----------



## Rob774

Sorry to hear, well read what you've just gone through darklily23. Shame on your husband to word the Dear Jane letter that way. But ignore the context of his words. "We are both the blame..."

That's a stone cold, cop-out. Said to make him feel better, said to make the guilt less on him, he'll tell himself over, and over again that his actions were rooted in the actions of you somehow. He's a coward, that can't even own up to his own decisions.

As painfull as it is now, you are better off, when this all started, he stopped being the person you fell in love with, and became somebody totally different.


----------



## darklilly23

Rob774 said:


> Sorry to hear, well read what you've just gone through darklily23. Shame on your husband to word the Dear Jane letter that way. But ignore the context of his words. "We are both the blame..."
> 
> That's a stone cold, cop-out. Said to make him feel better, said to make the guilt less on him, he'll tell himself over, and over again that his actions were rooted in the actions of you somehow. He's a coward, that can't even own up to his own decisions.
> 
> As painfull as it is now, you are better off, when this all started, he stopped being the person you fell in love with, and became somebody totally different.


thanks Rob774,

I sure feels like a big cop out with him saying "we" are both to blame and that he is "not angry with me".

I wish he could just say what he felt, that he would rather go play with his "get out of jail free D card" and when he gets done playing I will have missed him so much that I will have learned that he has a g-d given right to have as much cake as he wants.:lol: 

Yep, I find myself having to grieve what I thought he was...
Which in some ways is harder than death because at least you are grieving over something that was real and now gone, rather than something that never was. Different kind of pain...


----------



## alte Dame

Why not write him a reply?

Say, "Yes, we are both to blame. You are to blame for having a girlfriend when you are married to me & I am to blame for allowing it for as long as I did."

And then ask him if he has any idea what the word 'unspeakable' means. Somehow I don't think he is bright enough to have understood the irony of what he was saying.


----------



## alte Dame

And @ pollywog. Why are you waiting to pull the plug with your cheating H? Do you need incontrovertible proof for legal reasons?


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Why not write him a reply?
> 
> Say, "Yes, we are both to blame. You are to blame for having a girlfriend when you are married to me & I am to blame for allowing it for as long as I did."
> 
> And then ask him if he has any idea what the word 'unspeakable' means. Somehow I don't think he is bright enough to have understood the irony of what he was saying.


alte Dame, too funny I just got the irony in his words lol...

If I ever write him a note your suggestion will be in the first sentence alte Dame Lol!
I want to write him so many things but I think me not replying in anyway freaks him out more.
He is only use to his exs wanting to be friends (be able to run to him when they are feeling insecure and unhappy in their relationships).

I don't know if he has ever encountered anyone who is not into playing the "just friends" sitcom game...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

alte Dame said:


> And @ pollywog. Why are you waiting to pull the plug with your cheating H? Do you need incontrovertible proof for legal reasons?


I have all the proof I need for myself, however I don't have to have "proof" in my state. I do have more in retirement funds than he does and of course his skank OW is pushing for him to claim his half, as she did when her husband cheated on her. 

I want to offer a settlement for him to just go that is much less and he can keep his hotrod etc. Most assets are split 50/50 regardless of the reason for the divorce. Same with debt, but we have no debt except for mortgage. I go meet with the atty on July 2 and possible retain him to get the ball moving. Everything will be up to a judge to decide if we cannot reach an agreement. They could even let him remain in the home with me if he claims he has no place to go. Florida has some messed up laws and this is one of them. 

I have spoken to different attorneys, both male and female to get a different perspective, they all basically follow the laws of the state and let the judge decide unless we can reach an agreement. With no minor children, nothing to split except house and retirement. No alimony because we both make about the same. 

They are appalled he would even want to claim my retirement after what he has done. I do not want to give him half of anything, but have no choice in the matter. Cut my losses and give him half or stay married and live as room mates, hate either one of those choices :-(


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so stbxh keeps asking about D papers and
Says he is going on a vision quest. and that his heart is broken.
Something about reinventing himself. MLC?

What do you guys make of this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> Ok so stbxh keeps asking about D papers and
> Says he is going on a vision quest. and that his heart is broken.
> Something about reinventing himself. MLC?
> 
> What do you guys make of this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forget the MLC, I'm starting to wonder if your stbxh is experiencing some early senility....

A vision quest? WTH? If his heart is broken, he has broken it himself. The vision quest is to test the waters with the OW, right? You wait, DL. It won't be what it's cracked up to be. People who keep cake on the side for that long often want it only on the side. When it becomes the main dish, they don't know what to do with themselves.

I don't mean to make light of your pain, but can you keep a straight face with some of this?


----------



## alte Dame

pollywog said:


> I have all the proof I need for myself, however I don't have to have "proof" in my state. I do have more in retirement funds than he does and of course his skank OW is pushing for him to claim his half, as she did when her husband cheated on her.
> 
> I want to offer a settlement for him to just go that is much less and he can keep his hotrod etc. Most assets are split 50/50 regardless of the reason for the divorce. Same with debt, but we have no debt except for mortgage. I go meet with the atty on July 2 and possible retain him to get the ball moving. Everything will be up to a judge to decide if we cannot reach an agreement. They could even let him remain in the home with me if he claims he has no place to go. Florida has some messed up laws and this is one of them.
> 
> I have spoken to different attorneys, both male and female to get a different perspective, they all basically follow the laws of the state and let the judge decide unless we can reach an agreement. With no minor children, nothing to split except house and retirement. No alimony because we both make about the same.
> 
> They are appalled he would even want to claim my retirement after what he has done. I do not want to give him half of anything, but have no choice in the matter. Cut my losses and give him half or stay married and live as room mates, hate either one of those choices :-(


But, still, if he is openly cheating, why are you staying in the same house? Does he refuse to leave?


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Forget the MLC, I'm starting to wonder if your stbxh is experiencing some early senility....
> 
> A vision quest? WTH? If his heart is broken, he has broken it himself. The vision quest is to test the waters with the OW, right? You wait, DL. It won't be what it's cracked up to be. People who keep cake on the side for that long often want it only on the side. When it becomes the main dish, they don't know what to do with themselves.
> 
> I don't mean to make light of your pain, but can you keep a straight face with some of this?


Um no I can't alte, started laughing my $$$ off... Lol
I thought he was going to the dessert or something,
Turns out to be some lady his mom knows that has a
Spa and knows a lot about Indians... 

I can't help but wonder what his reaction would be if what ever "guide"
he finds tells him what the theripist told him...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> Um no I can't alte, started laughing my $$$ off... Lol
> I thought he was going to the dessert or something,
> Turns out to be some lady him mom knows that has a
> Spa and knows a lot about Indians...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ah, he's going into the hogan and sweating? Love it. Next is discovering the lost treasure of the Incas or training to be a sherpa. How about flying around the world with only the clothes on his back? Or skateboarding down the Pacific Coast Highway?


----------



## darklilly23

darklilly23 said:


> Um no I can't alte, started laughing my $$$ off... Lol
> I thought he was going to the dessert or something,
> Turns out to be some lady his mom knows that has a
> Spa and knows a lot about Indians...
> 
> I can't help but wonder what his reaction would be if what ever "guide"
> he finds tells him what the theripist told him...
> 
> Then the shrinks, me and the mystic realm would all be wrong,
> reminds me of one of thouse counting games on Educational ch.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

alte Dame said:


> But, still, if he is openly cheating, why are you staying in the same house? Does he refuse to leave?


Yes he refuses to leave. My name is on the mortgage and if I leave he will not make the payments. I cannot have a foreclosure and cannot pay for two places. My job requires me to maintain my personal finances because I handle a lot of money/accounts. 

@darklilly - I cannot believe your WS..LMAO he is almost as pathetic as mine is. 

I also agree with alte dame about not wanting the OP full time. It is not all fun and game anymore for them once they find out they can actually have that OP. My WS may feel the same way once all said and done. He already said he was not moving in with her even tho she wants him to.

Cheaters are just so full of themselves and have little regard for the feelings of others. I never imagined my WS would cause me this much pain.


----------



## alte Dame

pollywog said:


> Yes he refuses to leave. My name is on the mortgage and if I leave he will not make the payments. I cannot have a foreclosure and cannot pay for two places. My job requires me to maintain my personal finances because I handle a lot of money/accounts.
> 
> @darklilly - I cannot believe your WS..LMAO he is almost as pathetic as mine is.
> 
> I also agree with alte dame about not wanting the OP full time. It is not all fun and game anymore for them once they find out they can actually have that OP. My WS may feel the same way once all said and done. He already said he was not moving in with her even tho she wants him to.
> 
> Cheaters are just so full of themselves and have little regard for the feelings of others. I never imagined my WS would cause me this much pain.


Big 180 all around. For Lilly, you know already that the more you train yourself on the 180, the stronger and better you will feel. I've had to do this a few times in my life and it's hard at first & then almost liberating.

For Polly, can you wall off a separate area for him so that you don't have to deal with him?


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Big 180 all around. For Lilly, you know already that the more you train yourself on the 180, the stronger and better you will feel. I've had to do this a few times in my life and it's hard at first & then almost liberating.
> 
> For Polly, can you wall off a separate area for him so that you don't have to deal with him?


OK tell me how I am doing on my 180? I still want to know what in the He!! is going on in my stbxh little head, but only to give me some perspective on life atm

The need to know what stbxh or stbxow Tee Hee I like that,
Soon to be ex other woman...
Is oddly fading away into the distance:smthumbup:
I really don't seem to care anymore...

So what in the 180 can I make stronger?


----------



## pollywog

I spend a lot of time in the bedroom when he is home or he is in the office on his computer. We can sit in same room and never say a word for hours. He will offer food/drink or some comment. If I answer at all it is usually one word answers. As my daughter said there is no reason for him to leave, he likes it this way. 

I am not 100% on the 180 but trying to get there.


----------



## darklilly23

pollywog said:


> I spend a lot of time in the bedroom when he is home or he is in the office on his computer. We can sit in same room and never say a word for hours. He will offer food/drink or some comment. If I answer at all it is usually one word answers. As my daughter said there is no reason for him to leave, he likes it this way.
> 
> I am not 100% on the 180 but trying to get there.


Man I am sorry you are having to go through being there.

That would be very hard indeed, I think the only thing that 
makes me not be more angry is that I see my stbxh as really stupid and nuts, that and I don't have to see him.

When will you know about att offer about the house?


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> The need to know what stbxh or stbxow Tee Hee I like that,
> Soon to be ex other woman...
> Is oddly fading away into the distance:smthumbup:
> I really don't seem to care anymore...
> 
> So what in the 180 can I make stronger?


For me, as long as you are keeping any communication with him to business only, then the mental 180 is just constantly trying to force yourself to forward focus & to concentrate on your future, you alone, what you have to do for yourself in the next hour, day, week, etc. For myself it's a process much like grief, where I train myself to try to think ahead as much as possible even when the pain is intense.


----------



## darklilly23

So I am thinking about posting my whole story soon,
Should I post it in this thread or on a new one?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

I fell off the 180 horse ,I needed a answer to move on. Though my need is seriously fading.
I hope I won't have to "need" much of anything else anymore.
Stbx texted me about apt. stuff so I called and asked for answers so I could move on.

Would you guys tell me what you think about what stbx is saying here?
I really am trying to wrap all this up in my mind so I can move on with my life.

Me. I do not want to fight, I am trying to move on. Can you please reframe things so I can move on?
Why did you break NC when we were 
In still in MC?

Him. I thought we were over.

Me. yes but we were still in MC
And I had tried to believe for so long
that what you said,( I can give OW up)
Was true.

Him. I did give her up and it did not matter.

Me. yes but the "it did no matter" was only In your head no one else knew about it.

(Long Silence)

Him. I had a couple of consoling sessions 
And nothing changed, either you were going to change or I was, you could not change or give me what I needed.
I thought we were over and it did not matter, and I needed someone to talk to. I really was not making a statement.

Me. Your actions did not make any sense. 

Him. You wanted something I could not give you you wanted me not WANT to talk to her.

Me. thanks that's all I needed know.

I really am just trying to reframe my life and make it make sense, what does this all look 
like from a outside perspective?

Thanks for the insight guys... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Sorry for this, darklilly. How do you feel about what he said?

It sounds to me like he has never really gotten it, i.e., that you wanted him to want you MORE than he wanted to talk to her, such that he would make a break with her and stop hurting you.


----------



## PamJ

He is admitting he WANTS to stay in contact with her, and you can either accept it, or not. He really is being pretty clear here.

He is saying he is not going to change, would prefer YOU changed, but, since you are not willing to put up with him still contacting the ow, then he is willing to give you up for her. 

I learned I could not change my H to be what I wanted him to be. Once I did that HE realized I was willing to give him up because I had realized that and was not going to give in or beg or plead with him.
He finally realized what he was risking and decided he didn't want to lose it. In my mind it could have gone either way and I was willing to deal with that rather than put myself through hell, or worse, limbo, anymore. In that moment I felt cold and dead inside but was not able to show him any emotion. I had truly given up on him That scared him.

I am sorry to say your H is not afraid of losing you, and that sucks, but, he is making it easier for you to move on.


----------



## Jellybeans

You could just post your story here or start a new thread and link this one into it at the bottom of your story.



darklilly23 said:


> what does this all look
> like from a outside perspective?


It sounds like he was never committed to you. That he wanted you both. He wanted you to be ok with their unhealthy close relationship and when you weren't, he decided he'd rather that relationship than your marriage. 

He sounds like a man you should not be in a relationship with since he doesn't "get" what a committed relationship is about and has overlapping boundaries. 

I am interested to read the story of how all this went down, from the beginning.


----------



## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> OK tell me how I am doing on my 180? I still want to know what in the He!! is going on in my stbxh little head, but only to give me some perspective on life atm
> 
> The need to know what stbxh or stbxow Tee Hee I like that,
> Soon to be ex other woman...
> Is oddly fading away into the distance:smthumbup:
> I really don't seem to care anymore...
> 
> So what in the 180 can I make stronger?


Do not do ANYthing that helps him, unless it's an emergency and you'd do the same for any mild acquaintance.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Sorry for this, darklilly. How do you feel about what he said?
> 
> It sounds to me like he has never really gotten it, i.e., that you wanted him to want you MORE than he wanted to talk to her, such that he would make a break with her and stop hurting you.


Well it's a kind of closure I guess, it may be the only answer I ever get.

He knows that I wanted him to want me more than the her and the pain that it caused. And he is well aware that it has caused me pain, he just feels like I have no right to feel the way that I do.

He would flat out say You want me to hurt her over you? but there is nothing I can do because I am between a rock and a hard place. 

He would say, I can't believe you want me to hurt my good friend that I have loyalty to. I had loyalty to her before I ever met you.


----------



## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> You could just post your story here or start a new thread and link this one into it at the bottom of your story.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like he was never committed to you. That he wanted you both. He wanted you to be ok with their unhealthy close relationship and when you weren't, he decided he'd rather that relationship than your marriage.
> 
> He sounds like a man you should not be in a relationship with since he doesn't "get" what a committed relationship is about and has overlapping boundaries.
> 
> I am interested to read the story of how all this went down, from the beginning.


Yep I am starting to get the idea that he has no idea what commitment is, of course my gut told me that from the very beginning but I never looked up to see the red flags...

It's just so hard to accept that he wants some fantasy relationship over our long marriage together. This girl kicked him in the face then strung him along to play games with her marriage. And that is more "fun and seductive" then me trying to save him from the pain that is coming to from all this. He is so deluded.

Looking forward to what you guys think of the whole story.
I am still trying to figure what is important enough to put in the very long story that it it is.


----------



## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> OK tell me how I am doing on my 180?
> 
> I really don't seem to care anymore...


This shows your strength. Indifference. 
So I'd say you're doing fine. Just fine. :smthumbup:


----------



## TRy

darklilly23 said:


> Him. You wanted something I could not give you you wanted me not WANT to talk to her.


 He stated here that it was not good enough for you that he stop talking to her, that you also wanted him to "not want" to talk to her. If this were true, then what you are asking for would be unreasonable, as he cannot control his wants, only his actions. But this is not true and he knows it. Although you would of course prefer that he not want to talk to her, this was not a demand of yours, as you only asked that he not talk to her. He twisted this because he wanted to break no contact and is using this as an excuse to make you look like the bad guy. Bottom line is that you only asked that he not break no contact and he wanted to break it.

For you and not him, I think that you should set the record straight by sending him a short email busting him on this. Tell him something to the effect of "I only asked that you not contact her again, you are being dishonest to say that I demanded that you also not want to talk to her. Of course I would have preferred that you not want to talk to her, because you wanting to talk to her so badly only proved my point that you were more than just friends with her, but it was never a demand of mine and you know it. You broke no contact behind my back because you wanted to, not because I demanded that you not want to talk to her. At least be honest about this." 

Then if you want to call his bluff then also say something like "I am now calling your bluff. Promise me that you will never be in contact with her again if I come back, and I will promise you that I will never demand that you not want to talk to her. You not taking me up on this offer should put this false issue to rest. I believe that you want her in your life more than me and that this is the real reason that you contacted her again; prove me wrong. As they say, put up or shut up."


----------



## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> He would say, I can't believe you want me to hurt my good friend that I have loyalty to. I had loyalty to her before I ever met you.


This pisses me off. What an asshat. He's clueless. :sleeping:
WHO'D HE EFFING MARRY?????
Hell, I'd like to slap him for ya!


----------



## strugglinghusband

doubletrouble said:


> This pisses me off. What an *asshat.* He's clueless. :sleeping:
> WHO'D HE EFFING MARRY?????
> Hell, I'd like to slap him for ya!


Is this him?


----------



## darklilly23

strugglinghusband said:


> Is this him?


Lol lmao...

How did you know?!?!?:lol:

the funny thing is this really kind of looks like him...:rofl:


----------



## darklilly23

doubletrouble said:


> This pisses me off. What an asshat. He's clueless. :sleeping:
> WHO'D HE EFFING MARRY?????
> Hell, I'd like to slap him for ya!


:iagree:
That is exactly how I feel about the whole thing 
He is the one who wanted to marry me lol.
I would love for you you to slap him for me...


----------



## Remains

I just wanted to put my POV in regarding your husband's behaviour, I hope it may help. 

My ex went for his ex for some on the side when we got together. They slept together for sometime through the beginning of our relationship. I think he was besotted. 

My mum said 'some women bewitch men', which I think it is just that some women have these qualities of 'beauty' and their personality is very drawing too. But not in a normal way. It was a 'treat em mean...' kinda thing. Manipulative. Some men fall for that. And regardless of how awful she was to my ex when they split, and for much of their relationship, he was totally besotted by her. Bewitched.

I had a friend once who was friends mostly with men, got on better with men, preferred to have men friends. I had always been a bit like that too, was a tomboy as a kid, as a young adult preferred going out and playing pool or doing boys stuff. Always good humour. Boys always did more fun stuff. My best friends were always girls though. But, I was always aware of the sexual chemistry thing, wondered if I was friends with this fella because I fancied him rather than just liked the company, wondered if I deemed girls to be dull and hanging round with fellas because I liked the attention/the chemistry. I have come to realise that that probably was the case. 

And actually is absolutely the case for women who behave like this. You can tell...they give off the signals and they are flirty and attentive to the men around them. Other women see it, men don't.

My friend was very much a bit of a player. It was plain to see that she liked men better as friends because she could manipulate them, she could use their feelings for her to get what she wanted. You cannot use women in this way because there is not the attraction element. I think she was terribly insecure and needed men as friends in order to validate her sense of self. She was cruel to men, and she played games. She loved the attention, and she used their feelings for her to get what she wanted, to get that attention that she would never get in the same way from women. And she did get it, she had some men falling over themselves to be with her on occasion and she loved it and used it terribly. She had a man chasing her who was married with 2 kids. If she didn't fancy a man but knew he fancied her, she used that and thrived on it. Gave them just enough to think they might get something, and so they became besotted. It was all about the chase. 

My point being, he will realise what a fool he is. He will realise that he is living in fantasy. She will not feel about him as he does for her, and she will be doing the same thing with a number of men...he will eventually see that. She will not commit to him....ever! She may pretend, like she did with her husband, but it will never be real commitment. He will come to his senses. But, will you be there for him when he does?


----------



## Summer12

I have a lot of experience with this and it sounds like the spouse has mentally divorced already.


----------



## doubletrouble

:2gunsfiring_v1:



darklilly23 said:


> :iagree:
> I would love for you you to slap him for me...


Six guns! That's how we settle things way out west here lol


----------



## Acabado

Summer12 said:


> I have a lot of experience with this and it sounds like the spouse has mentally divorced already.


Actually he never was married, not except on paper.


----------



## darklilly23

TRy said:


> Then if you want to call his bluff then also say something like "I am now calling your bluff. Promise me that you will never be in contact with her again if I come back, and I will promise you that I will never demand that you not want to talk to her. You not taking me up on this offer should put this false issue to rest. I believe that you want her in your life more than me and that this is the real reason that you contacted her again; prove me wrong. As they say, put up or shut up."



I wish I could put him right, but every time I engage him it's like playing tennis with Teflon jello bounces off him and hits me in the head.


----------



## darklilly23

I am waiting for him to be gone so I can go get more stuff from apt.
Wondering if there will be another letter.
I must admit I am longing for our old relationship right now.
Is that a normal stage of all this? I just want to go home to "our home" and
Have my husband hug and comfort me.
Normal to be feeling this right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains

Yup! Normal. Ride it....and out the other side.


----------



## darklilly23

Stbx keeps saying "I am not angry with you"
"You are divorcing me" when it was him that had a dear Jane 
Letter an D papers waiting for me after breaking NC

I will be so glad when I am rid of the Man child's logic...

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Who cares what he says?

He is beneath you.


----------



## darklilly23

We are doing printed off online papers.
Any advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Ask for everything you want - NOW. You won't get more, later. You can always concede on something, but you can't ask for more later.


----------



## darklilly23

Ok that will be easy we, he has absolutely nothing...
he could not even afford a apt with out me having a job.
I can have any thing I want he says, a old car, my cloths. Etc.

Ill be taking my heart with me, along with my self respect
and a few hard learned lessons 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

darklilly23 said:


> Ok that will be easy we, he has absolutely nothing...he could not even afford a apt with out me having a job.I can have any thing I want he says, a old car, my cloths. Etc.Ill be taking my heart with me, along with my self respectand a few hard learned lessons
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you darklilly! I wish I could take my heart back, but sadly not to that point yet.


----------



## darklilly23

Polly, 
My heart is still injured,bleeding, and on the bad days broken and I catch it trying to crawl away
to stbx, its a weird place to be...
But I am still taking the shaterd little thing with me, all of it.
Some one that would willingly break it for there own preceved benefit 
Does not deserve it no Matter how many years we were togeather. Or how much love I gave or we
Shared in the past. Now is now, and in this now my stbx is a loveless a$$.

It was only about two weeks ago that I still felt all this conection, love and pain.
Then stbx put the last dagger in my back. Everything changed in that instant.
It was so pain full but freeing at the sametime.
But I still wake up in shock, disbeliefe, betrayed I know it will just take some time to heal and come to grips with.


Don't worry Polly, whatever your heart needs to know, it will come.
I know how incredibly hard and confusing it must be to still be living there.
How are things going in your story?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

It is the same for now darklilly. I have a medical procedure on the 2nd and we are both off on the 4th so I hope to get some resolution on that day. He apparently is not leaving "what he has worked hard for" meaning the house, so it will go on the market and if sold he will have to leave. I am hoping we can reach a settlement and just go our separate ways, but he is not giving up easy I don't think. I saw an email where he told her "I love you" but he tells me the same thing. Told him he could not love me and hurt me the way he is. Each day the love I feel for him slowly fades, one day he will realize he made a mistake and it will be too late to fix anything.


----------



## darklilly23

Just rember he is a Cake Eater Polly, and you are not.
You are soooooo much better than him and his fence sitting cake eating self.
You are waiting for the scraps that fall from the fence, not worth eating trust me I know I was just there. It is a humiliating game to play. 
He is week, pathetic and stupid to throw his life away. Which is so hard to hear from others because you invested so much into him.

Don't worry the karma bus is coming...
And no on the bus they don't serve cake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pollywog

Thanks Lilly. I can't wait for the karma bus. He has been having some pains in back and right side chest/arm, severe leg cramps (which he has had off on on over the years) and he took a big chunk out of one of his fingers at work this week. I like to think Karma, but I know that is not it. 

Every day I realize I will be better off, will I miss him and our life, sure will, but no the life we have had since mid March.

I want the Karma Bus to get her and get her soon.


----------



## darklilly23

Dang my stich flared up in march, WTH is it with march?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PamJ

It was March for me too, D-DAY, this time, last time was the February before. I guess I was just a little slower this time, or they were sneakier, not sure.


----------



## darklilly23

Sorry to hear about it PamJ,
I just found another poster on another thread saying march as well.
Guess something a stormed dragged in for all of us march Ddayers
Was it a EA or a PA as well? What's the name of your thread?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PamJ

darklilly23 said:


> Sorry to hear about it PamJ,
> I just found another poster on another thread saying march as well.
> Guess something a stormed dragged in for all of us march Ddayers
> Was it a EA or a PA as well? What's the name of your thread?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It was all virtual/cyber/phone text/sexting etc. whatever you want to call it. I think he picked the online thing as he viewed it as safe, and, the first time actually told me he did not think it was cheating, but then he went to great lengths to hide and continue it, so that argument didn't hold long. 

I guess in some sense I was lucky it was not a PA, much messier, and probably easier for me to call it quits. It's difficult with the online/never met IRL because I even second guess myself sometimes about staying married etc. Not now, as we are doing well in R, but earlier on and on the bad days that still come around.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...m-marriage-cyber-cheating.html?highlight=pamj

My original thread is dead, but it's "Long Term Marriage and Cyber Cheating" it is on the 2nd or 3rd page now I think.


----------



## darklilly23

Fell off the 180 horse again today but stbx invokes no feeling any more.
I guess it's just information gathering on my part because what he is doing makes no
Dam sense, I am I really breaking 180 if I no longer want him back? 

It's so weird he never try's to bate me or anything and I don't really want him to its just weird.
Is this a symptom of him having his emotional eggs in OWs basket so to speak?
His convo has gone from I will always love you I will never be done loving you. And do I have feelings for OW yes.
Do I love her No. To "I still love you that may never change" I still don't know what my feelings are for OW.

Like I said I don't want him back and don't really want him to feel any thing. Of course we all want to know that we meant 
something to our spouses hope they are pathetic with out us etc. 

But the fact that Stbxh seems almost to be hiding or running away or something is that because of guilt or exit affair or he is getting all his needs met by OW?
Don't need him to need me, just trying to understand things, and move on.


Any ideas?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

We all have issues and deal with them differently. He's just doing what he does to make himself feel good. You, on the other hand, are doing the hard work to improve yourself.


----------



## pollywog

My WS has been extremely nice lately but I know it is to ease his guilt over the hurt he knows he has caused. He is also a little surprised that I don't rant and rave, ask him any questions, beg/plead or anything else. I have been as nice as I can be under the circumstances and I know that part of me is killing him  

I have a procedure tomorrow, appointment with attorney tomorrow afternoon and ICS after that, so a full day. He is however going with me to medical appointment because he is actually concerned about it. Still does not change what has happened the past 3-4 months. we both have the 4th off, so I hope to get a resolution on that day - Independence Day in more ways than one.


----------



## VFW

darklilly23 said:


> Like I said I don't want him back and don't really want him to feel any thing. Of course we all want to know that we meant something to our spouses hope they are pathetic with out us etc. _Posted via Mobile Device_


The fact is you know your own self worth and it is his loss. He is a fool to run from a women that loved him with her whole heart to a woman that he was not even sure where is feeling were. He will in all likely regret this in the future, but it will be too late.

However, it does not matter whether he gets it or not, it is still his loss. If you really want to get back at him? Then go live a great life without him, that will show the [email protected]@rd.


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## alte Dame

Your husband just sounds like one of those people who thinks that the 'pursuit of happiness' is a lifelong endeavor & that it is something he has a right to, even when it hurts other people. He sounds self-centered enough to make his own 'search for love' the centerpiece of your life as well. This really is just self-absorption and entitlement. You give this credibility by trying so hard to understand him and reacting to his every mental twist and turn.

There are simply people out in the world who believe that their triumphs and travails enrich all of humanity. They are self-oriented to the point of delusion. If your H is like this, his delusion about the OW will be just that & he will keep on with his annoying, self-serving navel gazing forever.

As far as I can tell, you two have been married for a long time. He should have sh!t or gotten off the pot years ago. Why didn't he? The Hamlet-like drama of his 'finding happiness' is too riveting, I suppose.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame,

You summed up my stbx very well, he thinks the whole world is waiting with bated breath
for him to figure his like out.

It was so hard in therapy, hearing him go on and on about how he feels about OW the theripist and I trying to
understand why he could not give OW up.
Your description fits the bill quite right. 

I know, I know I need to stop trying to find a why...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

His 'struggle' to find his own nirvana only becomes your struggle if you let it, darklilly. I worked with a wonderful person some years ago who listened for a long time about my grief regarding a terrible experience I had had. She was very sympathetic and just said, "Give up the burden. You don't have to understand it. So many important things have no satisfying explanation, so why not just let it go? Lighten the load. Stop being vigilant. Just embrace the next minute and try to find some joy in what's ahead, even if it's just the pleasure of an ice cream cone or a silly movie." (She loved ice cream...)

She was right, in my opinion. Life is far too short to have it be directed and jerked around by someone else's self-absorbed 'journey of self.' What about your journey? Your H assumes that your joy will be in his grabbing his own brass ring, but your joy should be for yourself, don't you think?. You should grab your own brass ring.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> His 'struggle' to find his own nirvana only becomes your struggle if you let it, darklilly. I worked with a wonderful person some years ago who listened for a long time about my grief regarding a terrible experience I had had. She was very sympathetic and just said, "Give up the burden. You don't have to understand it. So many important things have no satisfying explanation, so why not just let it go? Lighten the load. Stop being vigilant. Just embrace the next minute and try to find some joy in what's ahead, even if it's just the pleasure of an ice cream cone or a silly movie." (She loved ice cream...)
> 
> She was right, in my opinion. Life is far too short to have it be directed and jerked around by someone else's self-absorbed 'journey of self.' What about your journey? Your H assumes that your joy will be in his grabbing his own brass ring, but your joy should be for yourself, don't you think?. You should grab your own brass ring.


That is very kind and beautiful advice alte Dame,
I am so ready to unload a whole bunch of baggage in my 
life, and maybe, just maybe this divorce is a wonderful time to do so! 

I will refer back to this post often! 
Brass ring, I have not heard that saying in a while 

More carousels need to have them! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

Oh my, 
I just realized the insanity of the loss loss situation I was in!

Stbx always said "talking to my exs did not matter so much, it was you not trusting me that I had a issue with"
WTH? this is like some gambit they would teach you in logic or debate class? it's a paradox.

I just found the fallacy! Lol

I mean really WTH?


Ok let's take out the word trust...

1. I don't care about talking to ex.
2. My issue with you is you won't let me talk to ex.

If I always trusted him to talk to OW then he would never have to show me that talking to her meant nothing to him

2. Invalidated 1.

There was never any choice in this little cake eating puzzle!!!

I am seriously worried about my IQ now lol...
This has all been such a mind $&@!

That's it! I am taking logic and debate! I was thrown for 10 years by the emotion of the word TRUST!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

And by his using it to control you. "If you don't trust me, you hurt me."


----------



## alte Dame

Yes, it is fallacious. And mean. It's like saying that the issue is 'tenacity' when he breaks your leg and then challenges you to have the moxy to run the race. There's no reason to break your leg here. There's no reason for the test at all. Certainly no healthy, respectful reason.


----------



## alte Dame

I think the logic is very simple here, darklilly.

If he wants you, then he doesn't get her.

If he wants her, then he doesn't get you.

If he wants to be married, then he doesn't get to have a girlfriend.

Very straightforward logic 101.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> I think the logic is very simple here, darklilly.
> 
> If he wants you, then he doesn't get her.
> 
> If he wants her, then he doesn't get you.
> 
> If he wants to be married, then he doesn't get to have a girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> Very straightforward logic 101.


Yep 101 indeed,

Looks like he did not want to be married so he gets a girlfriend!
And what a prize she is 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

I was going through stuff and I found stuff from OW that came in the mail after we were engaged that I thought he had thrown away...

Weird it was a invitation to OW collage graduation, I knew it had come in the mail but I had no idea he had squirreled it away LMAO ....

I know a lot of people keep trinkets from days gone by but this stuff means a bit too much to stbx. 
I found a card that I had gave him, a love letter to one ex from stbx ,that another ex had written a dear John letter on the back of..Lol

All this stuff became a point of contention because of the trouble over OW.
Even though it was very risky move on his part he still stuffed his little hamster face with some impersonal school invitation, weird.

Equally strange is how fast he is getting rid if all trace of me, but I was by far the longest relationship he ever had.
You would think with his need to cling to everything he would be saving up all my "[email protected]" for a rainy day,
you know the next time some poor girl falls in love with him.

Thats ok I don't really need to be a part of his "collection". I would just have figured he would have a prized spot for me lol...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

You stood up to him. So when he thinks of you, he feels 'bad' - thus removing you.


----------



## darklilly23

turnera said:


> You stood up to him. So when he thinks of you, he feels 'bad' - thus removing you.


Yep must be something like that, I can't help feel that some sort of guilt plays in to all this.

Says stuff like "oh now you can do such and such, you always wanted to do that."

Or "my life is destroyed now and I am trying not to blame you for it." ( he is the one that broke NC and had papers waiting)

And how quickly and without him fighting to "win me back" he is getting rid of every trace of me "the love of his life, his everything blah blah blah" 
he thought I should be trying to win him back, after he so kindly went NC again for the 4th time in two months.

Though the weird thing is he seems to really be in pain over "losing me." ????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> Though the weird thing is he seems to really be in pain over "losing me." ????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What exactly is he doing to make you say this?


----------



## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Or "my life is destroyed now and I am trying not to blame you for it."


 :rofl:

He actually SAID that?

So, he has a history of passive aggressiveness or mental abuse, right?


----------



## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> he seems to really be in pain over "losing me."


Key word: LOSING

You, like all women, are an object, something to be won or lost. Not a human being.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> What exactly is he doing to make you say this?



Well I don't see how he can be devastated over losing me, while quickly and happily kicking me out the door.

He only says he is devastated but I only see that in his mood not his actions, so maybe that is just another contradiction.

I am sorry guys, I will stop trying to make sense of him soon, I am sure it's just a stage of recovery that I have to go through.


----------



## darklilly23

turnera said:


> :rofl:
> 
> He actually SAID that?
> 
> So, he has a history of passive aggressiveness or mental abuse, right?


The odd thing is he is normally the most mentally non-abusive softy I have ever known except, when it comes to this OW then he becomes a different person. :scratchhead:

Then again maybe I need to get out more and meet more people.


----------



## darklilly23

I think I am finally coming to realize what a huge ego stroke/feed it must have been for me to be so "threatened" of OW for so long. Must have made stbx feel real valuable.
All that conflict and pain over "his heart and who he loved more"

Wonder what it's going to feel like for him when he realizes I no longer give a $&@?
Nobody gives a $&@? about fighting for him, 

A humiliating dance of pick me indeed...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

The one thing I always tell BSs is this: The best revenge you can have on your cheating spouse is to no longer need or want them, for them to see you out living your life WITHOUT THEM.


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so is it normal part of this whole thing to have a intense felling of needing to have somebody to pour your love into?
The odd thing is I don't really feel the need to be validated by someone. But I feel as if I have been a human fountain pouring 
out my love commitment and loyaty (and I feel like I have so much of it to give) for so long and now it has nowhere to go...

Normal stage? Good sign/ bad sign?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I think it's a natural part of being a committed couple. You weren't like this before you met and married your H, were you?

You'll learn to redirect your love, loyalty and attention. Right now, I would say that you should pamper yourself as much as possible. So much of the 180 is building back your own ego. It's training the mind to focus on certain things and then the heart can follow.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame,

On you are right I was not a human fountain before I got into a relationship with stbxh.
I like the pampering part, sounds like a good idea 

What sucks so bad is that stbxh has been my best friend on a daily, for almost half of my life now. Now he has posow to be his friend and he has knowen her longer than he 
has knowen me and being close to her is something he always wanted.
Unfortunate [email protected] prize at the bottom of this whole mess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I know this doesn't really help the hurt, darklilly, but this isn't a contest. His life isn't better than yours because he now gets to go to her 'freely.' (I believe he's made a sh!t sandwich for himself, but only time will tell.) The point is that his 'gain' isn't your loss here. He is the one who lost. You deserve a better husband than the husband he has been to you. You just do. Time will help you see that. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but you will eventually be at a place where you can look at your life on its own merits & not compare advantages. I, for one, don't even think he has the advantage now - two cheaters can now be together. Big whoop.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> I know this doesn't really help the hurt, darklilly, but this isn't a contest. His life isn't better than yours because he now gets to go to her 'freely.' (I believe he's made a sh!t sandwich for himself, but only time will tell.) The point is that his 'gain' isn't your loss here. He is the one who lost. You deserve a better husband than the husband he has been to you. You just do. Time will help you see that. I know it doesn't feel like it now, but you will eventually be at a place where you can look at your life on its own merits & not compare advantages. I, for one, don't even think he has the advantage now - two cheaters can now be together. Big whoop.


Thanks alte Dame,

I need to rember that its not a contest, but baring that, his $hit sandwich that he has made is that he is on social media site with OW who is playing both stbxh and OW 's stbxh against each other, just how 
she likes it best  and add that to the other ex that stbx added that hated OW... 
I don't know, just fells kind of WWF smack down or something.

And I am not in the middle of it anymore 
So yes, it is him that has lost me.

Thanks for the pep!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so I hear a lot of stuff about narcissist disorders and lack if empathy being a sign.

I did some reading and on the subject but it was all text book and stuffy. 
Anyone here feel that there WS has/had NPD or traits there of?

What were the signs for you?

I am trying to understand why stbxh seems to not think that he is doing anything wrong.
Is it some problem from the neck up? or does it just boil down to some people are a$$ hats and suck like that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

First part of papers going so sad...

Stbxh is taking his vacation and "going out of town" , so, so, Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
Even his friends are now having to assume the worst.
Like I said to my IC, "If OW shows up with stbxh at thanksgiving then I wonder if his family will stop accusing me of being parinoid"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

So my stbx told me that the OW is wanting him to commit, and that he told her "I can't because I am still in love with Darklilly , she is my soulmate"

Now the OW gets to see how she enjoys the cake eating fence sitting KISA.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doubletrouble

What a mess. He's effed your head far better than he ever took care of your body, it sounds like. I hope that doesn't come across too crass... but damn, he's completely nuts from what you've been posting here. 

You will get to the point of apathy about anything to do with him. I see a little of it right now, but it's only fits and starts. Let that apathy take over as much as it wants to. You have to get to the point of "I nothing you" to him/about him. Then you'll know not only do you no longer care, but that you are at least 60% healed from it. 

At the moment, you're still in the adjustment stages, and wondering what he's doing, what other people think. You don't need to give a tinker's damn about what they think. YOU know the truth. You can't fight all the lies and the revisionist history he's going to paint to everyone. 

Take care of yourself, DL. You're the only one who matters. And when you get back to being who you were, you will be healthy enough and able to pour those feelings into someone worth it. 

God bless


----------



## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> So my stbx told me that the OW is wanting him to commit, and that he told her "I can't because I am still in love with Darklilly , she is my soulmate"
> 
> Now the OW gets to see how she enjoys the cake eating fence sitting KISA.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The karma bus is gassed up and in gear! Love it! :smthumbup:


----------



## pollywog

darklilly23 said:


> So my stbx told me that the OW is wanting him to commit, and that he told her "I can't because I am still in love with Darklilly , she is my soulmate"
> Now the OW gets to see how she enjoys the cake eating fence sitting KISA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you serious? He put you through all this and yet you are his soul mate? Too bad he did not see this before. 

Yep sounds like karma may hit the "old friend" sooner than later.


----------



## Acabado

darklilly23 said:


> So my stbx told me that the OW is wanting him to commit, and that he told her "I can't because I am still in love with Darklilly , she is my soulmate"


Tell me he did this by text/email.. tell me that.

Please, forward it to the homewrecker!


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## alte Dame

He has played the two of you off against one another for so long that that has become his lifestyle. If you are out of the game, he has to drag you back in because he doesn't know how to do it any other way.

If I were you, I would stay WAY out of it. Let him crash on what his cake-eating and fence-sitting and perpetual hurting of darklilly have done to his life.

I have known people who create constant drama in others' lives in order to be center stage themselves. The drama is almost always corrosive and awful (never the 'I think I won the lottery' type of drama). Take yourself off of his stage. Please don't let him jerk you around anymore. No matter how hard it is to not engage, please stay as dark as you can. If you extract yourself, he will have to live with a different destructive drama & we will be thankful that you won't be a part of it.


----------



## Rugs

alte Dame said:


> He has played the two of you off against one another for so long that that has become his lifestyle. If you are out of the game, he has to drag you back in because he doesn't know how to do it any other way.
> 
> If I were you, I would stay WAY out of it. Let him crash on what his cake-eating and fence-sitting and perpetual hurting of darklilly have done to his life.
> 
> I have known people who create constant drama in others' lives in order to be center stage themselves. The drama is almost always corrosive and awful (never the 'I think I won the lottery' type of drama). Take yourself off of his stage. Please don't let him jerk you around anymore. No matter how hard it is to not engage, please stay as dark as you can. If you extract yourself, he will have to live with a different destructive drama & we will be thankful that you won't be a part of it.




YES, :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## darklilly23

doubletrouble said:


> The karma bus is gassed up and in gear! Love it! :smthumbup:


I am sorry, but its hard to hide my 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

pollywog said:


> Are you serious? He put you through all this and yet you are his soul mate? Too bad he did not see this before.
> 
> Yep sounds like karma may hit the "old friend" sooner than later.


Yeah, who would have known that it was arriving so soon ....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

darklilly23 said:


> So my stbx told me that the OW is wanting him to commit, and that he told her "I can't because I am still in love with Darklilly , she is my soulmate"


 Tell your husband that the fact that the OW wants your husband to commit to a committed and exclusive relationship to her, proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was an enemy of the marraige and that you were right all along not to trust her with your husband. Tell your husband that if he were an honest man he would admit that having such a person waiting in the wings and talking to your husband everyday, was never healthy for your marraige.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> He has played the two of you off against one another for so long that that has become his lifestyle. If you are out of the game, he has to drag you back in because he doesn't know how to do it any other way.
> 
> If I were you, I would stay WAY out of it. Let him crash on what his cake-eating and fence-sitting and perpetual hurting of darklilly have done to his life.
> 
> I have known people who create constant drama in others' lives in order to be center stage themselves. The drama is almost always corrosive and awful (never the 'I think I won the lottery' type of drama). Take yourself off of his stage. Please don't let him jerk you around anymore. No matter how hard it is to not engage, please stay as dark as you can. If you extract yourself, he will have to live with a different destructive drama & we will be thankful that you won't be a part of it.


Planing on staying wayyyy the heck back, just enjoying the show 

I am still in awe of the fact the he needs to play this game, which is somehow way more central to his little brain than I imagined, all this time I thought he was breathing air, but I was wrong he can only inhale cake, and that is becoming more clear as this things go on their merry way.
I mean I am kind of insulted, lol, that he just threw away a 10 year marriage with his "soul mate" and now he will not commit to OW that was soo important to him.

There is a saying, something about getting off a pot or something...
I mean really Dude, if you are going to throw me under the bus, at least pretend that it was for something that was worth it lol!

He is now having to face that if he gets together with OW he will now have to deal with OW stbxh that she is still "dear friends" with
And OWs other "guy friends" 

He said his life was f$&@?d now, yeah no $h1t Sherlock...

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

darklilly23 said:


> He is now having to face that if he gets together with OW he will now have to deal with OW stbxh that she is still "dear friends" with
> And OWs other "guy friends"
> 
> He said his life was f$&@?d now, yeah no $h1t Sherlock...
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is extremely messed up. And it appears that he is talking to you as a sympathetic confidante. Is that how it is?

I think TRy's point above is very well-taken, but at the same time I think that the correct psy ops approach for you is to stay back and out of his firing line completely. The 180 will help you a lot as time goes on. In the few times that I've done it in my life, it just took a few weeks to feel much more in control after what was a traumatic event.


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> This is extremely messed up. And it appears that he is talking to you as a sympathetic confidante. Is that how it is?
> 
> I think TRy's point above is very well-taken, but at the same time I think that the correct psy ops approach for you is to stay back and out of his firing line completely. The 180 will help you a lot as time goes on. In the few times that I've done it in my life, it just took a few weeks to feel much more in control after what was a traumatic event.


Well I my 180 seems to be working for the most part, I am not in near the pain I was in, though it comes and gos in spurts.
I guess it's hard not to be interested in the end of stbx, ehemm I mean STBXs story.
It's kind of like watching a train wreck of crazy people being driven off a cliff by a crazy person.
Morbid curiosity, I know, bad Darklilly, bad girl you get back to your 180 right now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

No, DL, it's fine to have the interest that you're describing. You sound like the 180 is doing its work because you are watching as a much less interested party, as you say.

You just don't want to become his bff that he whines to about all of the details of his new, cr*ppy life.

(I'm not sure I would call this just karma. It seems like a special type of karma -> a self-inflicted clusterf*ck.)


----------



## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> No, DL, it's fine to have the interest that you're describing. You sound like the 180 is doing its work because you are watching as a much less interested party, as you say.
> 
> You just don't want to become his bff that he whines to about all of the details of his new, cr*ppy life.
> 
> (I'm not sure I would call this just karma. It seems like a special type of karma -> a self-inflicted clusterf*ck.)


alte Dame,

Don't worry, I have no interest in being the brand new "just friend" he really does not want to talk to me. . I am assuming out of guilt.
I have to bate him to get what I know, but I don't have to bate very hard.
I am sure that the bating shows I am not as disinterested as I should be just yet.
But I can't really help it at this stage, like I said trying to make as much sense of this nonsense as I can.
Morbid curiosity, but at a nonemotional distance.

Special Cluster F Indeed, what's Funny is that he is only seeing the bad outcome for himself, when I pointed out that Not only is OW friends with her now ex but she is friends with the married guy that she slept with after my stbxh, which hurt his pride because he "meant nothing to her" when reminded him that not only did he have to deal with her ExH but he had to deal with her other" friends he went DEAD SILENT... 
Stbxh can't seem to translate the pain of being in that situation to what it was like for me to have to feel it.

What really amuses me is that I found out that OW ExH did not have any exs of his own, I had assumed that he was inflicting the same kind of [email protected]
On OW, but no he was her first as she was his until of course she "found herself" with her "friends" and she used to call me "insecure" to my stbxh when she had never even had to deal with this stuff from her stbx. Lovely...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

"I'm sorry you feel this way" then you leave.


----------



## darklilly23

Acabado said:


> "I'm sorry you feel this way" then you leave.


You mean that I am still too caught up in things?

Or that's what I should say to stbxh "sorry you feel this way" then leave?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

darklilly23 said:


> Or that's what I should say to stbxh "sorry you feel this way" then leave?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.
It's about continued detachment and moving on. As it's already stated here don't let him use you as confidant nor buffer for the bad situation he put himself, don't be anymore a willing participant in his high school continued drama. I understand it makes you feel good tell him things like he now has to deal with OW's exes and see him boiling in silent. It's just "fair" but even if you put it on morbid curiosity truth is it keeps you linked to his emotional state. The goal is complete indiference.

But don't get me wrong, I believe you are doing it great, I'm sure about it. All this just sucks and it's hard to fight those urges and it's an ongoing process. We just keep pushing you toward the right path as a pain in the a$$, right?
What are you doing for yourself, to fill your soul with positive things? 
Keep hanging there.


----------



## alte Dame

Acabado said:


> This.
> It's about continued detachment and moving on. As it's already stated here don't let him use you as confidant nor buffer for the bad situation he put himself, don't be anymore a willing participant in his high school continued drama. I understand it makes you feel good tell him things like he now has to deal with OW's exes and see him boiling in silent. It's just "fair" but even if you put it on morbid curiosity truth is it keeps you linked to his emotional state. The goal is complete indiference.
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I believe you are doing it great, I'm sure about it. All this just sucks and it's hard to fight those urges and it's an ongoing process. We just keep pushing you toward the right path as a pain in the a$$, right?
> What are you doing for yourself, to fill your soul with positive things?
> Keep hanging there.


Great post. I agree completely. You're doing great, darklilly. You've shown strength and it will take time. It does sound like a train wreck and you are well out of it at this point.


----------



## darklilly23

Acabado said:


> This.
> It's about continued detachment and moving on. As it's already stated here don't let him use you as confidant nor buffer for the bad situation he put himself, don't be anymore a willing participant in his high school continued drama. I understand it makes you feel good tell him things like he now has to deal with OW's exes and see him boiling in silent. It's just "fair" but even if you put it on morbid curiosity truth is it keeps you linked to his emotional state. The goal is complete indiference.
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I believe you are doing it great, I'm sure about it. All this just sucks and it's hard to fight those urges and it's an ongoing process. We just keep pushing you toward the right path as a pain in the a$$, right?
> What are you doing for yourself, to fill your soul with positive things?
> Keep hanging there.


I know, I need to get more emotionally apathetic, but like you said it feels like a on going process, I think as I see a little so called "karma" I am even more at peace and hopefully even more capable of apathy. 

I am making a career change that has been a life kind interest of mine.
Joining groups that I have always had a Intrest in but was to chicken to follow through on.
Something about losing what you thought was your future makes you a little more fearless 
In getting what you want in life. Kind of like well what the He!! Do I have to lose?

Thank you guys for nudging me on the right path! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

Well....keep going! They always say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger & I have a long list of great things in life that came as direct but unintentioned results of terrible experiences. The very first thing on that list is my H and my children. You just never know what things will bring.


----------



## TRy

darklilly23 said:


> I know, I need to get more emotionally apathetic, but like you said it feels like a on going process, I think as I see a little so called "karma" I am even more at peace and hopefully even more capable of apathy.


 The 180 is a good way to deal with ending a marraige that you are sure that you no longer want to be in, but are you 100% sure that this is what you want? Since filing, has the husband crossed the line of no return with the other woman (OW), such as having sex with her? I ask because your husband told you that you were still his soul mate for a reason, and now is the last best hope of saving your marraige if there is a chance that you want it to be saved.

If you want to maybe give it another try, tell your husband that when you heard that he told the OW that you are still his soul mate, that it made you wonder if there was still something left worth saving. Say to him that if so then this would be the last chance at doing so. Then ask him if he was interested in giving the marriage another try. If he says yes, tell him that regardless of what the relationship with the OW was before, now that it has changed such that she is asking him to commit to her, his relationship with the OW cannot continue if he wants back into the marriage. Tell him that this has nothing to do with what his relationship with the OW was or was not before you separated. That this is only honestly acknowledging what it has now become. By acknowledging this reality of your husband's current relationship with the OW, if he were honest with himself, even he must know that that having such a person waiting in the wings and talking to your husband, would not be healthy for your marraige reconciliation efforts. Again, tell him that this has nothing to do with what his relationship was or was not before the separation. That this is just dealing with the facts as they now exist.

If you do not want to even try to save this marraige and are OK with throwing away the last 10 years, I would completely understand. Just make sure that this is what you really want to do. It is not about what your husband thinks, what I think, or what anyone else on this thread thinks. It is about what you think and want. Before you burn the bridge and move on, give this a final thought.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I'm going to disagree with the "throwing away 10 years" part of the above post. That's what your husband is doing not you. You've tried everything and he continues to put you second. There's a point where you need to be first and true "soul mates" are never second to another lover.


----------



## darklilly23

TRy said:


> The 180 is a good way to deal with ending a marraige that you are sure that you no longer want to be in, but are you 100% sure that this is what you want? Since filing, has the husband crossed the line of no return with the other woman (OW), such as having sex with her? I ask because your husband told you that you were still his soul mate for a reason, and now is the last best hope of saving your marriage if there is a chance that you want it to be saved.
> 
> If you want to maybe give it another try, tell your husband that when you heard that he told the OW that you are still his soul mate, that it made you wonder if there was still something left worth saving. Say to him that if so then this would be the last chance at doing so. Then ask him if he was interested in giving the marriage another try. If he says yes, tell him that regardless of what the relationship with the OW was before, now that it has changed such that she is asking him to commit to her, his relationship with the OW cannot continue if he wants back into the marriage. Tell him that this has nothing to do with what his relationship with the OW was or was not before you separated. That this is only honestly acknowledging what it has now become. By acknowledging this reality of your husband's current relationship with the OW, if he were honest with himself, even he must know that that having such a person waiting in the wings and talking to your husband, would not be healthy for your marraige reconciliation efforts. Again, tell him that this has nothing to do with what his relationship was or was not before the separation. That this is just dealing with the facts as they now exist.
> 
> If you do not want to even try to save this marraige and are OK with throwing away the last 10 years, I would completely understand. Just make sure that this is what you really want to do. It is not about what your husband thinks, what I think, or what anyone else on this thread thinks. It is about what you think and want. Before you burn the bridge and move on, give this a final thought.


Thanks for giving me pause, and the idea about absolutely knowing what I want.

No I did not want a divorce, but I also no longer can stay with someone willingly causing me pain and putting another woman and his own childish confused wants as a priority ahead of me.

I even asked, why if I am your soul mate why are you messing around with this OW? and all he could do is blame shift and tell me why I should trust him, "If I trusted him then he would never had feelings for her" etc.
He said that he just wants the marriage to end (soul mate thing makes no sense) because he will always have to be involved with OW 

My stbxh says that maybe he would like to give it another go
(after this relationship with OW crashes and burns) and I can (He can) date a little bit and when I have learned my lesson that this is "just the way that the world works." 

And to me that is a HUGE slap in the face!

IMHO stbxh has a few lessons to learn about how committed relationships work.

I want a MAN without the suffix of CHILD on the end of it.

But no If stbxh had not told me and the counselors to go to heck and purposely and admittedly broke NC as a exit move.
I would probably still be in R for another 10 years until all this happened again.

Thanks for your post, it is food for thought and it is something 
I will ponder.


----------



## darklilly23

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm going to disagree with the "throwing away 10 years" part of the above post. That's what your husband is doing not you. You've tried everything and he continues to put you second. There's a point where you need to be first and true "soul mates" are never second to another lover.



Yeah,

Thanks Philly, that kind of how I feel about it.:iagree:

like I said on the board and to him, I was still waiting on him in counseling to get his head on straight. When he very deliberately (Think exit move not a slip up) said "Well I cut off contact and you did not react strongly enough so I knew that it did not matter if I talked to her or not." and had the divorce papers waiting for me along with a Dear Jane letter.

I had already told him that it would take a while for me to believe in NC again after it was broken for the umpteen time:rofl:


----------



## TRy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm going to disagree with the "throwing away 10 years" part of the above post. That's what your husband is doing not you. You've tried everything and he continues to put you second. There's a point where you need to be first and true "soul mates" are never second to another lover.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Good point. I stand corrected. I wish that I never said that phrase in my post. You are right when you say that it was the husband that threw the 10 years away.


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## darklilly23

TRy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> Good point. I stand corrected. I wish that I never said that phrase in my post. You are right when you say that it was the husband that threw the 10 years away.


Ah thanks for the support:smthumbup:

Trust me I have done everything I can up one side and down the other to save this thing, short of shutting up and taking some kind of happy pill or happy bottle lol...


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## phillybeffandswiss

Yeah, he is a piece of work.

No worries TRy, the rest of your post made plenty of sense.


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## darklilly23

Yes TRy and for the record, a really good post! 
It is so easy to lose sight of what you really want when you are surrounded by so many different sides,
People who don't want you to be in pain, your spouse, the people who are trying to put him into a straight jacket etc etc lol

No but really you have a good point, after reading your post I had to stop and ask my self "what do I really want?"
Are my anger pain and pride getting in the way or clouding my vision.

It's always good to take a deeper look!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Well stbxh filed the first part of the papers today,
I think he is crazy lol, he said his life is "&[email protected]?!& now" (what ever that means) he is not committing to OW prob out of guilt, but he told me that he told the OW that I was his soulmate.
His family and his friends with moral fiber are not happy, my FIL is taking his boy out "on a little trip to talk about something's"

My counselor asked what I was going to do when he realizes "it was all a big mistake" ?
I said I don't think that will be a issue for years to come, he could not take the hit to his pride, which IMO is more important to him than the marriage.
That and he problay knows that I would slap him after all he had done. done. So he figured his best bet is to go play with the toy he does not really want?!?! WTH?!?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VFW

darklilly23 said:


> Well stbxh filed the first part of the papers today,
> I think he is crazy lol, he said his life is "&[email protected]?!& now" (what ever that means) he is not committing to OW prob out of guilt, but he told me that he told the OW that I was his soulmate._Posted via Mobile Device_


He thinks you are his soul-mate (person you have a deep feeling of love), but that is impossible if he has another woman. Instead he needs to be your sole-mate (person you give a swift kick in the arse).


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## darklilly23

Lol would that make it a "friendly kick in the pants"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

I hope you can emotionally regroup a bit. Your H is at best (at best!) very confused. This has been jerking your life around for a very long time. Some time to yourself to start seeing your world a little differently is very helpful. Remember the Stockholm syndrome - people bond with the ideologies of the people around them. I'm hoping that you can soon start to detach enough to realize not just with your head that your H's 'principled stand' is bullsh!t, but with your heart as well.

And, who knows? He may straighten himself out and understand it himself some day. Time will tell.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Well stbxh filed the first part of the papers today


Good. You'll soon be free to start living a life where you can find a partner with whom you are cherished, wanted, and respected.


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## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Good. You'll soon be free to start living a life where you can find a partner with whom you are cherished, wanted, and respected.


I am glad I am having him file because at the very least on down the line he will have to remember it was him that was standing in front if the Judge asking for a divorce .
Whenever he wants to blame this on me or feel connected to OW because he is " being left"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

You sound so much healthier in these posts, and it also sounds like you are emotionally disassociating your previous feelings towards him. He is at a point with you where he doesn't hurt you (as much) any more -- you're a bit amused by his continued assinine behavior. 

He didn't "get it" with you, he's not going to "get it" with OW, and he may never "get it." You don't own that. He does. Too bad for him, as you wanted to give him everything you could for the M and he's the dufus who thinks life is a never-ending party of irresponsibility and easy-peasy relationships. 

Marriage is WORK. It takes a lot of love, a lot of patience, a lot of forgiveness, and the basics of fidelity, honesty, consideration of each others' lives and feelings, and so much more. You know that. He doesn't. 

You aren't trying to raise a boy, you wanted to be married to a man. He hasn't grown up yet, and is therefore unqualified to have you in his life. The abuse he heaped upon you in the meantime assures that, for you, there's no going back. A one-way street. 

You're doing great, DL. It's a tough hit on your life but you've survived, learned a lot, and will be better when the REAL man you wanted actually shows up.


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## alte Dame

His way of thinking is truly skewed. The more you get away from it, the more you will recognize it. It's like being deprogrammed. You never fully bought into it, but you have questioned your own sense of crazy, right, wrong, dysfunctional, etc. As time passes, you will see that you are the sane, stable one. You're the one who knows 'how life really works,' not him.

This knowledge will help you detach. Ten years is a long time, but it's only a fraction of a lifetime & life goes by quickly. Why spend more of your time in pain than you need to?


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## darklilly23

Anybody ever experience theses symptoms?


Lightheaded, clammy, cold sweat, ringing in ears, hearing fading ,vision getting blurry, knot in stomach, knees buckling,
Feel like you are going to black out. It quickly went away when I left the room and sat down. Weird...

I was visiting at a hospital today, when a nurse started to say something that made me queasy, but I thought nothing more of it.

Then out of the blue I started getting the above symptoms, I have had anxiety stuff before but never physical symptoms like that, as if I was going to pass out,
I would not be surprised if it was from stress, but wondering if it was low blood pressure or something? 

I was not feeling really anxious over anything, just some of the things the nurse had said earlier made me queasy but that passed.

No worries not asking for "medical advice" just wondering if anyone had or heard of anything similar.

I mean this is CWI forum, this stress must affect people pretty badly sometimes.

Any thoughts? Thanks guys! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio

darklilly23 said:


> Anybody ever experience theses symptoms?
> 
> 
> Lightheaded, clammy, cold sweat, ringing in ears, hearing fading ,vision getting blurry, knot in stomach, knees buckling,
> Feel like you are going to black out. It quickly went away when I left the room and sat down. Weird...
> 
> I was visiting at a hospital today, when a nurse started to say something that made me queasy, but I thought nothing more of it.
> 
> Then out of the blue I started getting the above symptoms, I have had anxiety stuff before but never physical symptoms like that, as if I was going to pass out,
> I would not be surprised if it was from stress, but wondering if it was low blood pressure or something?
> 
> I was not feeling really anxious over anything, just some of the things the nurse had said earlier made me queasy but that passed.
> 
> No worries not asking for "medical advice" just wondering if anyone had or heard of anything similar.
> 
> I mean this is CWI forum, this stress must affect people pretty badly sometimes.
> 
> Any thoughts? Thanks guys!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not a doctor but sounds like a rapid decline in blood pressure (commonly known as "feeling feint" or medically as syncope). Can be caused by any number of physiological problems (e.g., with heart or endocrine system), lack of sleep or nourishment or external factors (happens to me when a doctor sticks a big needle in my arm).

If it happens again, see a doctor.


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## alte Dame

A panic attack can present with those symptoms. You should definitely see a doctor.


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## darklilly23

Thanks guys, I have had anxiety attacks before but there was no fear or dread or the need to fight or flight so to speak that I have had before,
If I keep having it I will go get it checked out. 
It kind of felt like a quick drop in blood pressure or not getting enough oxygen to brain or something like that, but I know stress can cause you to hyperventilate and such.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

The hyperventilation is a physiological reflex of the panic. That's what happens with a panic/anxiety attack - it's why they want you to get some CO2 in your system. This can also just come over you because of stress. You think that there's no trigger & it just happens. It can be very frightening.

Anyway, it's a good idea to see a doctor in any event.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Atd WH is doing every thing he can to prove That this "friendship" is Ok and that he has every right to keep it.


As often happens, the focus is on the wrong thing. This isn't a case of whether he has a 'right' to a friendship. It's a case of whether he honors his spouse's need - to not be minimalized and made to feel unsafe.


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## darklilly23

So I went to MC#2 today for IC and he, G-d bless him, (He was the one that flat out called stbxh out on his bull)
He offered some valuable insight that hopefully will help me heal and soon and come to grips with the"why?"

He and I agreed after talking about it for a bit that stbxhs issue
Is pride and I think that makes sense on a lot of levels and starts to tie some lose ends up in my mind. 

Therapist said that the things he was saying reminded him of someone who had an addiction,
" I can totally handle three drinks, trust me" but that everyone around him sees the road that he is on as a bad one,
Friends, family, me, therapists (all three of them) are all trying to point this out to him.

Therapist asked if he had even remotely shown any signs of wanting to R and I said no, he seems to running for the hills
And stripping every last bit of me from his life, which is odd because its not his normal clingy MO. I said that I don't think he can take the hit to his pride to ask for R.
And that makes a lot of things become clearer.

Therapist #1 said because I am the first to call him on something that is that dear to him (being more morally right then everybody else).


Anyway things are good, I am just starting to untangle the mess so I can hopefully get closure and move on, not quite just yet, but I am getting there! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

DL, missed a few days and your panic or anxiety attack is familiar with me. In the first event in my life, wife #1 had been on her bicycle and hit by a car, taken to the hospital. Now, i was about 21 or so, never been in that sort of situation before, and I actually did pass out once I found out she was OK. This was only a year into our M, so I still thought I should care... But I digress.

During our DDay 19 months ago, about a month after I guess, we were upstairs having it out on another bad day, and I started to hyperventilate. Didn't even realize it, until I started to feel faint. Since W had a lot of abuse in her life, she's familiar with this and called it a panic attack. I didn't feel panicked, but I did lay on the bed for about half and hour till it passed. Weird. 

Her doctor said the worst that could happen is you pass out. Then you wake up. 

My two pence.

As for your therapist nailing something, that's wonderful news. A lot of times they don't seem to get too far deep. Fools and their pride... If you have one helping you with the proper depth YOU need for YOUR 'sanity,' keep going. You're going to be alright, this we all know.


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## darklilly23

Double thanks for the advice, the whole black out thing had me kind of freaked lol
That was my first thought, weird...
Glad to know that it can still be hyperventilation even if you are not aware of being fearful over anything specific.

If the worst that happens is that I pass out then that might not be to bad lol...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

As long as you're not near traffic!


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## alte Dame

In your descriptions, he has always come across as excessively proud. He has acted as if it's all a matter of principle on his part and now that his insistence on this principle is destroying his marriage, he can't suddenly reverse course. To back down now would be to tacitly admit that you all have been correct - that his contact with the OW is out of bounds for the marriage.

I'm a big fan of people with principle. They get a lot of good things done in the world. If the principle is illogical, dysfunctional, or really just demonstrably wrong, however, then what good does taking this stand do? Your H is blowing up his marriage for wrongheaded principle.

And that's if we believe that that is the only real reason & not that he has deep feelings for the OW. It makes more sense to me that he can't give her up because of these feelings and he has constructed this fake and twisted principle in order to justify what he's doing.


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## darklilly23

Humm,

Good point alte Dame,

I think I agree for sure that it has something to do with his deep feelings for OW, he even admitted it numerous times " unspeakable bond " and such lol

I think with all the crazy coming out in the wash, it looks like the twisted logic 
And the [email protected] moral high horse has 
been as much if not more so about stbxh fooling himself about the feelings he had and making justifications so that he of the high horse, could not only have his way but to be able to live with himself.


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## Acabado

A narcissistic would see it as the moral thing to do.


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## darklilly23

I think like some people say often a EA is just a PA waiting to happen.
My stbxh always said "why can't we move to OWs state?" As if my distrust proved I was wrong and a bad person.

So after things went to heck and he is "exploring his feelings with OW" 
He says "well the difference is that I am no where near her."

To which I said "oh yah, what the he!! Do you think would be happing now if she lived in the same city?"

DEAD Silence....

Him- "well I glad we don't have to deal with that".

Lol like it was pea sized hail or something....


----------



## darklilly23

Don't worry, I am not talking to him,
He never checks on me or asks me how I am or anything, I never thought he could turn, tuck tail and run so fast!
Never in my life would have imagined!
Especially since his MO is being a cheek stuffing hamster with any of the women in his past.

Sorry, just does not make sense.


----------



## darklilly23

Ok guys,

Need some support I guess I am doing badly on my 180
But I don't know how to stop obsessing about stbxhs "vacation"
I know he is no longer my spouse but I am having a hard time wondering if he is going to go and see the OW.

Stbxh says that OW is wanting him to commit but he told her that he can't because he is still in love with me.
That makes no sense, all this does not add up and I guess that's why I can let it go.
If he would just say " I am I love with OW" I think I could find some peace with that.

What do you guys think the chances are that that is what he is up to?
He has a friend that knows more than I do but he won't tell me, something about the "why?" Of why he is leaving the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

You cant stop thinking about it (his vacation), that's ok, just don't do anything about it, like asking his friend.

The more you slow down and limit your obsessing, it will slowly fade away...little by little.


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## turnera

You need to be filling your time with stuff that lifts YOU up. The more full your brain gets with it, the less room for him.


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## Acabado

turnera said:


> You need to be filling your time with stuff that lifts YOU up. The more full your brain gets with it, the less room for him.


This.


----------



## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Ok guys,
> 
> Need some support I guess I am doing badly on my 180
> But I don't know how to stop obsessing about stbxhs "vacation"
> I know he is no longer my spouse but I am having a hard time wondering if he is going to go and see the OW.
> 
> Stbxh says that OW is wanting him to commit but he told her that he can't because he is still in love with me.
> That makes no sense, all this does not add up and I guess that's why I can let it go.
> If he would just say " I am I love with OW" I think I could find some peace with that.
> 
> What do you guys think the chances are that that is what he is up to?
> He has a friend that knows more than I do but he won't tell me, something about the "why?" Of why he is leaving the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why is he talking to her at all? He shouldn't be if he is serious about being in love with you/wanting to get back together with you.

Nonetheless: this will suck but... my advice is to imagine the worst. Imagine he does meet up with her. Then you do not have that fear in your mind, of what COULD happen. Just proceed thinking that he may very well meet up with her and and figure out how you would react to that. What are your boundaries. You both should be working together (without her in the picture) if you are serious about being together. If he truly understands how this has hurt your marriage, he will cut it off w/ her forever.


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## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> Why is he talking to her at all? He shouldn't be if he is serious about being in love with you/wanting to get back together with you.
> 
> Nonetheless: this will suck but... my advice is to imagine the worst. Imagine he does meet up with her. Then you do not have that fear in your mind, of what COULD happen. Just proceed thinking that he may very well meet up with her and and figure out how you would react to that. What are your boundaries. You both should be working together (without her in the picture) if you are serious about being together. If he truly understands how this has hurt your marriage, he will cut it off w/ her forever.


Thanks Jellybeans, 

I wish he did want to work on the marriage but he has already filed the papers.
(As per my wishes, he is the one choping at gate to have the divorce final so can be the one to file and not blameshift it on to me for "me leaving him")
That's why I still can't come to grips with all this.
His words don't meet his actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

The whole friends with an EX/ old flame thing confuses me because at some point I would love to have a friendship with my Ex fiancé , even though she doesn't deserve to be my friend. but on the flip side I can understand why a husband or wife wouldn't want their spouse to be friends with someone they used to be intimate with. Its really so tricky because you never really know if people have hidden agendas or not until its perhaps too late? 

How does he not realize that its completely messing with your mind to have divorce papers ready for you and at the same time " Stbxh says that OW is wanting him to commit but he told her that he can't because he is still in love with me." 

I wish I could offer you some words of wisdom , like you do for me , I really do , but it seems to me that he might have rushed this whole thing and tried to push the divorce preemptively to appease the OW, which is baffling because he is still in love with you? ugh this is making my mind spin , I can only imagine how chaotic it Is for you !!  

I wouldn't worry about the vacation ( easier said than done) whats that famous sayin ? " if you love someone let them go , and if they come back to you beat them with a baseball bat" ??  no really just try your best to accept what he tells you is the truth , and I wouldn't go digging for answers from friends.


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## darklilly23

Yeah I am only getting answers from one friend that is mutual and he is not telling me anything he thinks that would invade stbxhs trust in said friend.
The only reason I am talking to this friend is he now believes what I have been trying to tell every one about the nature if their relationship.
I have not spoken to any other of stbxhs friends because they are his cheering squad.

And I have not spoken to his family In these past 3 month since Rome burnt down.
They all thought I was so insecure (until now) that stbx is talking about having a relationship with this woman who scarred him in his youth.

Sorry but,

"Evil laugher"....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

This all happened very quickly for you, didn't it? I mean, he maintained his relationship with her for a long time, but it came to a head quickly, didn't it? If so, you can't be expected to just not have any interest or not want information or explanations.

Try to take some small steps the way people here have advised. Purposely direct yourself to other interests to see if you can get your mind on something else, even if just for a while. If you can, try not to ask questions about what he's doing.


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## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> This all happened very quickly for you, didn't it? I mean, he maintained his relationship with her for a long time, but it came to a head quickly, didn't it? If so, you can't be expected to just not have any interest or not want information or explanations.
> 
> Try to take some small steps the way people here have advised. Purposely direct yourself to other interests to see if you can get your mind on something else, even if just for a while. If you can, try not to ask questions about what he's doing.


Yeah it did kind of happen quickly but then again it was a big elephant in our relationship for the entire time.
He has been smitten with her since his early teens and he said it took him years to get over.

Trying to keep mind off it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soveryalone

Its such a double edged sword isn't it? Being curious , feeling a need to know something , but at the same time being completely terrified of the knowing. I think that is my very least favorite part about all of this **** , part of me wants to confront her and I guess I did do that last night or the night before via Email , I think my initial email was " So how did it feel to get F-ed in the bed I bought for us " of course she replied with " did you decide what to do about your clothing" and this was really late at night , so in all honesty it might not have been her. Anyways I don't understand and I am really unfamiliar with these thoughts and feelings. Part of me wishes I could have watched her life play out the minute I left and then there is this other part of me that thinks , " are you f ing insane , you don't need to see all of that" its quite a paradox, so wanting to know details , or doubting and letting our imaginations run wild is normal of course , but I do really caution anyone who reads this , ONCE YOU KNOW SOMETHING YOU CANT UNKNOW !!!!!!


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## darklilly23

I woke up with a great thought to day,

I have been having such a hard time with the grieving process and letting go of stbxh because
I can't understand why his words don't meet his actions.
However I came to a sort of half conclusion this morning.
Part of what makes this so confusing is that what I tried so hard to believe about stbxh and why I doubted so much over the years
Is that some of the good things I was needing in a mate was a mask that I was trying to shove stbxhs face into.
Loyalty, his heart being undivided, that I meant the world to him because (I felt that way about him) and that if push came to shove I/he would show it.

I am not grieving for something that never was or something that has died, I am grieving that the good qualities that I was throwing on to stbxh were not there and did not stick.
But the good thing In all of this is those qualities are not his but mine, they are what is in my heart.
And I don't have to grieve over them or be confused (though I know I will for a while) because I still have all that stuff inside of me and I am taking it with me!!!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Yep, you couldn't understand why a liar lied.


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## Soveryalone

I think when we get into a serious relationship, we morph into the person the other wants us to be. Maybe not consciously but people come together and fall in love with the side or sides of the other that they are comfortable showing. We all have layers and when I Think about it , maybe that's what " true love" is, when two people come together at the perfect time and shed all of those layers, take off his or her mask , and just with 100% honesty just show their true self. 

I understand what you are saying darklilly coming to conclusions is such a huge part of the process , for me anyways. Its nice when a thought offers a a light bulb moment, and getting to the root of why things happen and thinking about the relationship as a whole helps as well. We can choose to focus on the end , and feel all of that pain and anguish which we both know so well, or just focus on our own actions and their actions throughout the whole relationship. Writing helps me tremendously. It allows for a different perspective sometimes , and seeing it from another angle is sometimes that little boost we need to not feel so  or  or 

So essentially you aren't grieving over the loss of him, you are grieving over the loss of what you were wanting him to be? 
That's extremely profound and actually very helpful for me as well, 
And with each day , I realize I don't miss being with someone, I am getting more and more ok being alone, I certainly don't miss her or her family , but what I think I might miss is the concept of "real love" , like you talked about . so sappy I am sure but a love built on honest communication, romance, desire, openness , trust and loyalty. Its out there I suppose , and just knowing that makes me feel slightly better


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## phillybeffandswiss

darklilly23 said:


> I woke up with a great thought to day,
> 
> I have been having such a hard time with the grieving process and letting go of stbxh because
> I can't understand why his words don't meet his actions.
> However I came to a sort of half conclusion this morning.
> Part of what makes this so confusing is that what I tried so hard to believe about stbxh and why I doubted so much over the years
> Is that some of the good things I was needing in a mate was a mask that I was trying to shove stbxhs face into.
> Loyalty, his heart being undivided, that I meant the world to him because (I felt that way about him) and that if push came to shove I/he would show it.
> 
> I am not grieving for something that never was or something that has died, I am grieving that the good qualities that I was throwing on to stbxh were not there and did not stick.
> But the good thing In all of this is those qualities are not his but mine, they are what is in my heart.
> And I don't have to grieve over them or be confused (though I know I will for a while) because I still have all that stuff inside of me and I am taking it with me!!!
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





darklilly23 said:


> He has been smitten with her since his early teens and he said it took him years to get over.


So, he lied to you from the beginning, he was never over her. Remember this when you get shaky or lose resolve. 




turnera said:


> Yep, you couldn't understand why a liar lied.


Yep, you wouldn't be in this situation if he was really over her.


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## darklilly23

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, he lied to you from the beginning, he was never over her. Remember this when you get shaky or lose resolve.
> 
> 
> Yep, you wouldn't be in this situation if he was really over her.


Dang, Well Philly when you put it so bluntly, man that really hits me upside the head with a 2x4
I mean WOW, Truth...
All these years too blind to see what was in hindsight very obvious.

There was even this weird break in the clouds in MC that lasted for a day when he said "omg! I have been lying to my self, and you and OW! I have had deep feelings for her all along!"
And then he quickly took it back and accused me and the MC of "Regressing" him.
And I said "wow Hun, I had no idea I was so powerful as to compleatly hypnotize you and control your thinking in 2.5 secs!?!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Darklilly , are you sure its 100% over and done with ? :scratchhead: did you and him both sign the papers already ? I have this feeling he isn't going to go through with it , I don't know why I just have this feeling


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> Darklilly , are you sure its 100% over and done with ? :scratchhead: did you and him both sign the papers already ? I have this feeling he isn't going to go through with it , I don't know why I just have this feeling


Only did first part still have other parts to go..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

when does he go away with his dad? maybe after he returns he will come back with a different perspective , I am sure many people have gotten VERY very close to divorce and then not gone through with it , I am not sure why but I just have this feeling he is going to decide to save your marriage , its like a premonition or something , and often mine come true.:smthumbup:


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> when does he go away with his dad? maybe after he returns he will come back with a different perspective , I am sure many people have gotten VERY very close to divorce and then not gone through with it , I am not sure why but I just have this feeling he is going to decide to save your marriage , its like a premonition or something , and often mine come true.:smthumbup:


Yeah I have a weird feeling too...
Something is strange...
Know not what...


He gos this week and will be gone for two weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

I have the oddest feeling tonight that everything is going to be OK.
That I am going to be OK and life is going to be ok.
No matter what happens I feel so much stronger and that's a great place to be!

Thank you citizens of TAM.
Feeling better tonight 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Darklilly , you are taking an active role in trying to save your marriage and I applaud that , but whats equally important you are really taking an active role in fighting for your own peace of mind and well being, and no matter what happens I am completely convinced you are going to be just fine , I am positive :smthumbup:


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## Soveryalone

You got this


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## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> Yeah I have a weird feeling too...
> Something is strange...
> Know not what...
> 
> 
> He gos this week and will be gone for two weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, if he does come back and makes a really effort to save the marriage and dumps his "friend" for good, it would be a direct result of you leaving him. You showed him that you just aren't going to take any bullsh1t from him. This is why I recommend that the first thing a BS should do is leave (or throw out the WS) and it has to be the WS crawling back, not the BS. You are doing good!


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## darklilly23

The Middleman said:


> Well, if he does come back and makes a really effort to save the marriage and dumps his "friend" for good, it would be a direct result of you leaving him. You showed him that you just aren't going to take any bullsh1t from him. This is why in recommend that the first thing a BS should do is leave (or throw out the WS) and it has to be the WS crawling back, not the BS. You are doing good!


Thanks middleman! I am trying to stay strong and stand my ground, a higher ground, we will see if stbxh can even find me way up here lol...

The really cool thing is I am getting a glimps that life will be good with or without him and that is such a good place to be.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Sort of strange when for whatever reason you just start to realize , that , no matter what happens you are going to be fine ? And that honestly with him or without you , real happiness comes from within you... my friend told me this this other day about E , my evil witch of an Ex he said " People can do 2 things make us happier or sadder, but true happiness comes from within..


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> Sort of strange when for whatever reason you just start to realize , that , no matter what happens you are going to be fine ? And that honestly with him or without you , real happiness comes from within you... my friend told me this this other day about E , my evil witch of an Ex he said " People can do 2 things make us happier or sadder, but true happiness comes from within..


Your friend is wise sovery, this stuff is just a swamp that we have to get through and learn from.
I will be darned if I am not going to learn something healthy and useful from all this.
The pain has been wayyyy to expensive to not get a fair trade for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

So yes, its completely possible to be happy , 100% single , although , it would be very nice to some day end up with someone who did make me happier  lol but I am still thinking my "pilots license" is revoked for ever and I wont be taking off anytime soon... I mean I did just get tossed out of plane without a parachute


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## darklilly23

So I found out that stbxhs dad "maybe calling the their road trip off"
And that his dad is giving him airline miles. Stbxh said he had three options 
2 of those would put him within driving distance of OW. (Though he says he doesn't know if he wants to see her or not) " crazy talk"
The other would put him at a friend of the marriages house who is worried about what road he is taking. 

Humm door #1 #2 or #3 ????

Not really worried, don't care if he sees her or not. The damage to our marriage is already done.

Still trying to stop being curious, though I know I am not there yet. Something tells me when the papers are signed things will get better for me in that area.
I think there is some chance that stbxh is going to freak out so I guess that's what I am mildly waiting for. 

Just seems odd to me that his vacation is next week and he does not know/already have plane tickets to where he is going...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Keep a rubber band on your wrist. Every time you start thinking about him and her, pop it.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Just seems odd to me that his vacation is next week and he does not know/already have plane tickets to where he is going...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 And you know all this...why?

Because he WANTS you to. He's still f'ing with your mind. It's fun for him.


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## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Keep a rubber band on your wrist. Every time you start thinking about him and her, pop it.


Rubber band huh? Might take something a little stronger, a rubber mallet perhaps?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Trust me, the sting will work.


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## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Trust me, the sting will work.


Shopping list
1. Rubber bands. Check 
2. Sanity 
3. Dignity
4. A new life
5. Hot dog buns
6. Rum
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

When I started reading all the 1700 emails fWW and OM wrote back and forth, it hurt a lot. It hurt a *LOT*. It was some sort of self mutilation, like cutting myself (which I've never done btw) some need to know details, some form of preserving my sanity while cutting myself to the bone that kept me reading it all. And a form of insanity, looking back. So much went on, and so much I didn't know, and so much I can't un-know. Sometimes TMI is TMI.

I think that's what you may be feeling a taste of. It hurts, but it affects you somehow, so you have a need to know. Almost feels like a right to know, although stbxh has informed you that with the papers you will no longer have a right to know. 

Stay strong in yourself. You didn't want this handed to you, but you got it. Remember how it came about. Stay angry. Anger is a great tool to deal with the crap you're going through. Just remember it's a tool, not a lifestyle... Some folks get lost in their anger, as you see on this board every day. You seem to have really good emotional balance through the sh!tstorm you've beein living. You're gonna be OK.


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## Soveryalone

Darklilly , don't be so hard on yourself, you are doing an excellent job coping with all of this stuff. You aren't a robot, you cant turn your feelings for your husband off like a light switch. And part of loving someone is worrying about them, being curious about them in times like these. you are doing great !!! And I am sure you have your moments where you get nervous or anxious , feeling depressed about the past , wondering and worrying about the present , and anxious what might be in the future. Try your very best to just happily live in the moment. living in a moment YOU create for yourself, forgetting about anyone else on the planet. 

I do know how badly you want him to want what you want, I know you want him to call you and say " you were right , I love you and I want to make our marriage work" and who knows that may happen. So about his trip , Worst case scenario in your mind, He tells you he is going to visit her, he visits her and then returns and demands that the divorce papers are signed immediately and it is final. Best case scenario he goes on his trip , he does a whole lot of thinking and maybe you get that " you were right, lets make this marriage work " call.
I have a hunch what may happen and there is nothing wrong with thinking positively however, hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.

And just keep telling yourself, no matter what happens , you are going to be fine, this too shall pass.


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## darklilly23

So I was out with some friends of mine and one of my friends said " so stbxh never actually cheated on you"? (Friend was male).
He said "oh I thought stbxh had actually slept with her. Just sounds like a misunderstanding" and I must admit it made me feel a bit crazy, like I was tossing away the marriage for no good reason.

Here's the thing, I know in my heart what stbxh is doing is wrong, MC say its unhealthy. I have found plenty of people who say they would not be comfortable with it.
So why can one friends innocent question cause me to doubt my self?

I feel like if stbxh has not slept with OW somehow other people don't understand how much my situation hurts.
It's like I feel like I am a child describing why the pile of junk in the corner looks like a monster and scares me.
I feel like if stbxh has not been physical with ow while with me that the world won't qualify what I am going through as unjust or messed up.

Any thoughts on this matter? Is this common for this type of situation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Well, correct me if I am wrong but your husband helped the OW when she was going through her divorce yes?? and he has told you that he is considering starting a relationship with her ?? I mean that to me sounds like he really came close or perhaps did indeed have an EA with her. Your male friend thinks like most males , "real cheating" involved sexual contact. whereas most females may actually be more upset their husband had an EA, than a PA but I guess maybe it depends on the couple, the people honestly I wouldn't really think twice about what your male friend said. 
I mean if this makes you feel any better , and as sad as this is, I was watching my Ex literally fall in love with another guy in front of my eyes , on facebook and on the phone , texts , and I know exactly how deeply it hurts and how much anxiety is involved. I was in so much anxiety and anguish that I literally had to get on the next flight out after 12 years together, sorry I am repeating myself, but I totally understand your perspective.

*So why can one friends innocent question cause me to doubt my self?*
what all do you mean doubt yourself? doubt your feelings of betrayal ?


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## life101

darklilly23 said:


> So I was out with some friends of mine and one of my friends said " so stbxh never actually cheated on you"? (Friend was male).
> He said "oh I thought stbxh had actually slept with her. Just sounds like a misunderstanding" and I must admit it made me feel a bit crazy, like I was tossing away the marriage for no good reason.
> 
> Here's the thing, I know in my heart what stbxh is doing is wrong, MC say its unhealthy. I have found plenty of people who say they would not be comfortable with it.
> So why can one friends innocent question cause me to doubt my self?
> 
> I feel like if stbxh has not slept with OW somehow other people don't understand how much my situation hurts.
> It's like I feel like I am a child describing why the pile of junk in the corner looks like a monster and scares me.
> I feel like if stbxh has not been physical with ow while with me that the world won't qualify what I am going through as unjust or messed up.
> 
> Any thoughts on this matter? Is this common for this type of situation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only the unknown scares us. Once you completely go through it, it will cease to be scary. Painful, yes, traumatizing, yes, humbling, yes, insightful, yes, but never scary, not anymore.

And yes, people who have never experienced this, or sometimes even the people who experienced this can never fully comprehend the pain you go through. I used to be a status-quo guy, believing in three strikes rule. But life is too short to invest over and over again on something which has proved to be a bad investment. I will rather take my chances with new, unexplored ventures, than staying in the same, rotten pile of garbage.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Here's the thing, I know in my heart what stbxh is doing is wrong, MC say its unhealthy. I have found plenty of people who say they would not be comfortable with it. So why can one friend's innocent question cause me to doubt my self?


Because (1) you aren't taking into account that this guy was male and they think with their other brain, so anything short of actually USING it doesn't count to them, and (2) the quick to doubt is because you don't love yourself (and don't see your worth) and you aren't doing enough work on that.


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## turnera

You should have asked your male friend, so I guess those 3 guys that your wife calls at all hours of the night but never sleeps with are just fine with you?


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## alte Dame

Also, the terms that we use can influence very much how people view a situation. If we talk in detail and use terms like 'emotional affair,' we will beg the question from many listeners and may get the reaction that you got from your friend. The EA, as now defined, can seem so murky that others will question whether it's a serious thing.

If you stick with older words and don't go into detail, you might avoid some of these interactions. Say, for example, 'He's had a girlfriend for years that he won't give up.' Or, 'He's been dating while married to me.' Both of these things don't necessarily require sex - the meaning in the terms is primarily emotional (otherwise, we have the term FWB, for example).

The more you explain, the greater the possibility of a reaction like your friend's. So much of this is gut reaction. Some people will have it when they hear your story and some won't get it until it happens to them. This is one of those 'I know it when I experience it' kind of things.


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## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> Also, the terms that we use can influence very much how people view a situation. If we talk in detail and use terms like 'emotional affair,' we will beg the question from many listeners and may get the reaction that you got from your friend. The EA, as now defined, can seem so murky that others will question whether it's a serious thing.
> 
> If you stick with older words and don't go into detail, you might avoid some of these interactions. Say, for example, 'He's had a girlfriend for years that he won't give up.' Or, 'He's been dating while married to me.' Both of these things don't necessarily require sex - the meaning in the terms is primarily emotional (otherwise, we have the term FWB, for example).
> 
> The more you explain, the greater the possibility of a reaction like your friend's. So much of this is gut reaction. Some people will have it when they hear your story and some won't get it until it happens to them. This is one of those 'I know it when I experience it' kind of things.


Thanks alte Dame,

Just the kind of advice I needed, because when I tell them that stbxh is the one rushing the D papers, exploring a relationship with OW, problay flying out to see her, blaming me for the feelings he has for her, tell them that I "don't have a boyfriend nor would I while still married" and that stbxh says "hopefully we can get back togeather when you have learned more about life" they freak out and see all that as being fishy and insane. 

Then the part comes up about him not having had a PA while with me and OW being in another state, and all of the sudden they seem confused.
Maybe they are as confused as I am?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PamJ

<< "hopefully we can get back togeather when you have learned more about life" they freak out and see all that as being fishy and insane. 

Then the part comes up about him not having had a PA while with me and OW being in another state, and all of the sudden they seem confused.
Maybe they are as confused as I am?>>

My H was ready to throw away 16 years of marriage in 1997 for someone he had never met in person. They planned to get together, but never did. He also had fantasies of the boys (then 4 & 11) living me me but me sending them out the FL for the summer where he would be living with her. As if!

I don't who know if those who knew/know about it can ever relaly understand it. Even some women don't think it's as bad if they didn't have sex IRL, but mostly it's men. You can't worry about them. You don't live to their standards, you live to your own. If it's not right with you, then it's not right.

And that statement about getting back together when YOU have learned more about life is crazy talk. Who would put up with their spouse pining away and leaving you in limbo while they decided if they wanted to have a relationship with someone from their past. NO one!


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## Busy Accountant

Hey DL

I found myself in the same position with a close personal friend who I thought knew enough about the situation to see it for what it was. After what I thought were several months of support, she minimized my H's EA's as professional friendships. I was livid.

Unfortunately I found that to "justify" my actions (and this is what you are talking about here, "justifying your actions") I had to go through a long explanation..and I really wasn't interested in doing that. So here's what I came up with.

"H broke every vow he made to me with another woman (actually 3) EXCEPT the one where you promise not to boink anyone else, you know that whole "honor and cherish stuff". Then, if they happen to be married, you can look at them and turn it around and ask them..."were your marriage vows only about sex?"." That should shut them up.


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## darklilly23

PamJ said:


> I don't who know if those who knew/know about it can ever really understand it. Even some women don't think it's as bad if they didn't have sex IRL, but mostly it's men. You can't worry about them. You don't live to their standards, you live to your own. If it's not right with you, then it's not right.
> 
> And that statement about getting back together when YOU have learned more about life is crazy talk. Who would put up with their spouse pining away and leaving you in limbo while they decided if they wanted to have a relationship with someone from their past. NO one!


Thanks for the pep! this is so how I feel!:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## darklilly23

Busy Accountant said:


> Hey DL
> 
> I found myself in the same position with a close personal friend who I thought knew enough about the situation to see it for what it was. After what I thought were several months of support, she minimized my H's EA's as professional friendships. I was livid.
> 
> Unfortunately I found that to "justify" my actions (and this is what you are talking about here, "justifying your actions") I had to go through a long explanation..and I really wasn't interested in doing that. So here's what I came up with.
> 
> I completely understand this and identify with this.
> 
> "H broke every vow he made to me with another woman (actually 3) EXCEPT the one where you promise not to boink anyone else, you know that whole "honor and cherish stuff". Then, if they happen to be married, you can look at them and turn it around and ask them..."were your marriage vows only about sex?"." That should shut them up.


Heh, I will remember this for next time! :iagree: :smthumbup:


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## darklilly23

Well stbxh is on his "vision quest" and then flying to "stay with friends" umm yeah, uh huh.
So I am just apt sitting trying to get my head clear.
I still can't believe this is really happening, I really feel like stbxh has been snatched by the pod people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

there is no reason to think he isn't going to see his friends darkilly


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## darklilly23

Still trying to come to grips with all this.

Stbxh is leaving the marriage because "he can't deal with my reaction and he will always help his exgirl friends"

I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"

Please translate what all this means for me.

I know I am being redundant, just feel very lost and confused.
And I am afraid of all future relationships since this was my first.
This is not normal right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveAtDaisys

He's deflecting. It's easier to justify hurting someone if they hurt you first. He isn't coming to terms with the fact that he has hurt and betrayed you.

This is NOT normal. You do deserve so much more than he seems willing or able to give you. And I'm so sorry for that.


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## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Still trying to come to grips with all this.
> 
> Stbxh is leaving the marriage because "he can't deal with my reaction and he will always help his exgirl friends"
> 
> I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"
> 
> Please translate what all this means for me.


Translation: it's a crock of lies. Really? He wouldn't have feelings for her if you didn't leave him because he won't stop his inappropriate relationship with her? Wow. He has some balls telling you that. I hope you see right through it.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"


Oh puhleaze. Just cheaterspeak for 'you didn't let me eat my cake...waaaaah.'

Leave him in the dust, lilly; you deserve someone who actually GIVES a fig about you, not someone who uses you for his own happiness.


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> I am afraid of all future relationships since this was my first.
> This is not normal right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Well, this is telling, then. I told my DD22 to date as many guys as she could in high school, and to MAYBE think of getting serious in college, but even then still date a few. Why? So she could SEE that not all guys are the same, that there are some who will be good fits, some you'll find yourself changing for (not a good thing!), some who'll show you how NOT to be treated. 

Today, she's so picky that she turns down twice as many guys as she agrees to go out with. She doesn't NEED that crap, you know?

Neither do you. There are better men out there, lilly. Go find them.


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## doubletrouble

Transference. 

When we had our DDay, she accused me of doing everything SHE had done. It's unreal, thinking back about it. We made up a list of "rules for relationships" that she conceived, and now that I have all the facts about her infidelity, she broke all of those, while accusing me of doing the same (I did not). 

For example, rules about "cheating ends the relationship" Well, she did that. I did not. "No groping, kissing, touching..." well she did all of that as well. I didn't. 

The idea I'm trying to get across is that this is guilt transference, and although I'm not a shrink, I've been married to one (ha ha but it's the truth) and this is something not all that uncommon for the guilt-ridden. 

Don't take that on YOU, either, Lilly. What he's doing does sound common if not normal, and your response also sounds normal in your situation. The main thing to remember, however, is that you aren't creating this, you are suffering from it. Look at it form the point of view I've just given you, and I think you will see your stance has strength and integrity, while his point is to assuage his own guilt for the crap he's handed you. 

I know this is difficult, and I feel for you. But you didn't create the mess in his head, and you can choose not to take it into your own mind and heart.


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## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> Still trying to come to grips with all this.
> *This process takes time, that's OK.*
> Stbxh is leaving the marriage because "he can't deal with my reaction and he will always help his exgirl friends"
> *Transference. Translated: I want my cake and to eat it too.*
> I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"
> *He says those things to make it all external, something he could not control, out of his hands, it's all your fault. Which is, of course, complete bull.*
> Please translate what all this means for me.
> *"I am a lying, cake-eating narcissist who is never willing to take responsibility for my actions or stick with a committment. I want to eat candy all the time and life sometimes serves liver and lima beans, so it's all the fault of things that are external to me. I don't have to take responsibility for my actions." *
> I know I am being redundant, just feel very lost and confused.
> And I am afraid of all future relationships since this was my first.
> This is not normal right?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lilly, all future relationships will not be like this. You got off to a poor start, and that's heartbreaking because you had that purity of love, hope, dreams and more that comes with these relationships. 

You've written a lot on this site, and people here are very close readers, scrutinizing anything anyone writes for the slightest fault. Look at how many virtual hugs you get here >>>hugs<<< and take solace in your position. You're OK, and you're doing this right. It's hard, and it will be a roller coaster for a while, but your heart is right and your head is screwed on right. Be proud of who you are. Don't base your feelings about your future on the lying POS the ex has turned into. He doesn't get to have that power over you.


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## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> Stbxh is leaving the marriage because "he can't deal with my reaction and he will always help his exgirl friends"
> 
> I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"
> 
> Please translate what all this means for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me leave you with a quote from a fictional charter that I kind of admire; JR Ewing: "The best news I'm ever gonna get from you is that you're out of my life forever!"

You have to have the JR attitude darlin' (said with my best JR voice). Don't dewll on him, put him behind you and move on. He proved that he's nothing but a stupid piece of sh1t who was not grown up enough for marriage. You on the other hand are a much better person.


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## Soveryalone

*I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"*

I love this quote " Don't make someone a priority in your life when you are only an option in theirs". Darklilly , I am so sorry you are feeling lost and confused, I am sorry you have to be on this absolutely horrific roller coaster. I agree with the previous postings, I do. And humans are complex creatures we have a multitude of layers , and in my opinion it is possible to have those loving feelings for more than one person at a time. but its also completely possible for 1 person to love you, and only you, for life (which you deserve)
It seems like he is delicately trying to say he is so very confused with his feelings, but even though you are married to the man, his confusion about his feelings is hurting you so deeply, and he doesn't seem to care. I frankly don't fully understand it, what I have just said is my best guess :scratchhead:
*
I know I am being redundant, just feel very lost and confused.
And I am afraid of all future relationships since this was my first.
This is not normal right?*

<hugs> I wish you knew how many times I have told my story in these past 2 + months, my goodness talk about being redundant, Literally any person who speaks to me, online / offline I tell them about my story , they look at me like I am losing it, which half the time , I feel like I am. Its so frightening to be in this fog, please believe me but you aren't alone in this, others are lost in the fog as well ( like me). Its like being locked in a dark room , walking/ stumbling around on a floor covered in broken glass and just when you gain some balance and adjust to the pain, something forces you to keep walking. 

We keep hoping and praying that person we fell in love with is still in there and in control and it seems like the man you fell in love with, the man you married is mostly still there but if you start noticing more and more change, more drastic change, please , please guard yourself, because that man you married , the man you fell in love with might ( and I stress MIGHT) be capable of being very mean, cold and hurtful. And I don't ever want anyone to experience what I did when my ex fiancé changed so drastically SO quickly. 

And I wouldn't worry about your future relationship, We all try our best to heal, but we all take these scars with us, no matter how badly we try to heal, no matter how much therapy we get, no matter how many books we read, this pain, these scars we have make us who we are, however they only define us as people as much as we allow. And whomever you end up with some day will love you scars and all. But no , whats happening in your marriage , and what happens in many of the marriages I read about on here, aren't the norm. At this point , its becoming your reality so its very easy to feel lost/ confused and perhaps feel like someone in the future might be capable of what he is doing. You know my thoughts on this , I think he is just confused but at some point he needs to clear his mind and love you , like you love him, for life... unless you feel that his indecision up until now has already caused too much doubt in your own mind. Sometimes we have to walk away from the person we love so deeply for our own well being, its sad , but its also very true. Self preservation is a very powerful motivator


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## darklilly23

LoveAtDaisys said:


> He's deflecting. It's easier to justify hurting someone if they hurt you first. He isn't coming to terms with the fact that he has hurt and betrayed you.
> 
> This is NOT normal. You do deserve so much more than he seems willing or able to give you. And I'm so sorry for that.


Thanks for this, it is all I can possibly imagine that would cause this kind of behavior in someone.


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## darklilly23

The Middleman said:


> Don't dewll on him, put him behind you and move on. He proved that he's nothing but a stupid piece of sh1t who was not grown up enough for marriage. You on the other hand are a much better person.
> [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


Thank for this as well,:smthumbup:
I have to really keep in mind that I was committed to stbxh, he is the one whining about the lack of cake.


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## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Well, this is telling, then. I told my DD22 to date as many guys as she could in high school, and to MAYBE think of getting serious in college, but even then still date a few. Why? So she could SEE that not all guys are the same, that there are some who will be good fits, some you'll find yourself changing for (not a good thing!), some who'll show you how NOT to be treated.
> 
> Today, she's so picky that she turns down twice as many guys as she agrees to go out with. She doesn't NEED that crap, you know?
> 
> Neither do you. There are better men out there, lilly. Go find them.


I am glad you taught your DD to be very picky, It will serve her well.

Frankly I can wait to find men who don't have this specific hang up. don't get me wrong, don't want a relationship until I figure my self out. Just wanting to get it through my little brain that all men are different having been gas lighted for so long to think that stbxhs world view was healthy.


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## Soveryalone

I have found it does take time and quite a bit of practice haha I see how I interact with my female friends and its quite funny actually. I realized that for 12 years I was devoted and faithful to one person and despite growing apart , she was the only person I really felt close with and the only person I could really talk to. I have no clue, no concept how to talk to women now, none zip , zilch , I guess a whole lot changes in 12 years  I mean I guess over the years I had female friends but it was always so very casual, the only close and deep connection I had was with my ex. 

also what do DD stand for ? ____?____-daughter


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> I have found it does take time and quite a bit of practice haha I see how I interact with my female friends and its quite funny actually. I realized that for 12 years I was devoted and faithful to one person and despite growing apart , she was the only person I really felt close with and the only person I could really talk to. I have no clue, no concept how to talk to women now, none zip , zilch , I guess a whole lot changes in 12 years  I mean I guess over the years I had female friends but it was always so very casual, the only close and deep connection I had was with my ex.
> 
> also what do DD stand for ? ____?____-daughter


You will find your way with the talking 

Someone said on the forums once that its like getting to learn your life all over again how to talk, walk, relate, what you want your life to be about etc.


Dear daughter and age DD22 DS4 and so on form what I understand.


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## Soveryalone

ugh !! I don't wanna learn my life all over again though !!


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> ugh !! I don't wanna learn my life all over again though !!



Heh, yeah I know the feeling, but I am trying to enjoy the "positive spin" that I am having to put on it lol...


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## darklilly23

Jellybeans said:


> Translation: it's a crock of lies. Really? He wouldn't have feelings for her if you didn't leave him because he won't stop his inappropriate relationship with her? Wow. He has some balls telling you that. I hope you see right through it.


Thanks Jellybeans,

Honestly most of the time I do see through it. But for some reason there are some days when I feel like my brain has been put in a blender because this whole thing makes no [email protected] sense!

I know, I know stop trying to make it make scene.

It's like so many people who have heard my story friends and family. They all say it's the strangest thing that they have heard of. 

At least if he would man up enough to say all this boils down to is his brilliant idea that he is going to go "play' then get back together with me when I have learned my lesson aka that cake eating is OK... :scratchhead::rofl:


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## Soveryalone

All this talk about relearning to live life has got me thinking and I just realized that there is huge part of me that literally feels dead inside, and the person who I would normally talk to about feeling this way , or really feeling any sort of negative way is gone , and she will be gone forever , and I think I may have just had my first taste of acceptance ...


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## darklilly23

Ok so I know my marriage ending is not my fault, so why do the thoughts that it might be keep creeping in to my brain?
The only thing I can figure is that none of this makes sense to me, so my brain try's to find an answer anywhere it can.

I am going to a industry party today with a bunch of old friends and I just started imagining trying to tell them about divorce and why it was happening and I could not come up with any good reason.
Stbxh and I were a awesome couple, had just about everything in common, were involved in the same careers etc.
The OW has none of these things in common with stbx and not to sound vain but its not a beauty contest either. 
I guess stbx has some unfinished business with her or something.

This is so freaking confusing to me, stbx says he can never love OW "nearly enough" I am the love of his life etc.

I am sorry to be so needy, this really just makes me feel insane.

1.What sense does this make? (I know I am being redundant, sorry)

2.Is it normal to be asking if I am causing the divorce ( even though I know I am not and would still be working on it if stbxh would give ow up and show understanding and remorse)

Thanks guys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

The only thing stbx ever says when I have asked him why the marriage is ending is "We are just at a stand still and neither of us are going to change"

And then a bunch of babel about how he has feeling for OW but he is not sure about them.

What does that sentence say to you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

darklilly23 said:


> I wish he would just say he is in love with OW. Not " he is heartbroken and still in love with me and would not have feelings for OW if I had not left him"
> 
> Please translate what all this means for me.


 What he just said is that he has inappropriate feelings for the OW, because you objected to him have inappropriate feelings for the OW. That is cheater speak. He is in an affair fog. It does not have to make sense for them to say these things as if they are good reasons for his cheating.


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## Soveryalone

You are too hard on yourself, you aren't being needy at all, you are here to try to make sense of this whole thing, just like most people on this forum. Did you ever think that maybe this OW is just his way of making sure you are the one for him? Granted that prolly should have happened prior to marrying you, but , there might be a lot of what ifs in his mind, and perhaps he just wants to be certain you are the one for him? Perhaps he just needs closure from her?

"We are just at a stand still and neither of us are going to change"

To me that says he feels you guys are in a rut, but plenty of relationships/marriages go through ruts, they experience issues/bumps in the road/ difficulties but two people who are committed to working at it, do and end up happier than ever ( so I have been told)


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## alte Dame

When people ask you why you are ending your marriage, just tell them that your stbxh wants to have a girlfriend and be married to you. He seems to think that you are selfish for not accepting this. You seem to think that he is crazy for insisting on it. Impasse = Divorce.

And if you are still talking to him or his friends/family about it, I think you should go dark. You won't come out of the effects of his gaslighting you on this for so long unless you discipline yourself to stay away.


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## The Middleman

alte Dame said:


> When people ask you why you are ending your marriage, just tell them that your stbxh wants to have a girlfriend and be married to you. He seems to think that you are selfish for not accepting this. You seem to think that he is crazy for insisting on it. Impasse = Divorce.


This is so very important. Don't let him control the dialog with friends and relatives. Everyone has to know how "twisted" he's become. What he's doing is wrong and everyone needs to know it.


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## Soveryalone

other than her postings on here what business is it of other people? her marriage is her marriage and what other people think/say doesn't really matter does it ? people know to respect boundaries in these times no ?


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## darklilly23

Thanks to alte Dame and others who gave me advice on this subject and support in general.

I went to a party tonight, gave a few details (where stbxh was and why he was not at the party with me) and was pretty vague about things, stayed cool, said I did not want to bad mouth stbxh and left it for everybody to come to there own conclusions. Worked beautifully, I took the high road and was welcomed with open arms! 
And a lot of "oh my ghosh he is so stupid" remarks.

Lovely evening, so glad I went out.
I even reread some of my thread before I went into party for a shot of courage.

Thank you again my kind TAM friends, I really don't know how I would be getting through all this without your kindness and support!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Lilly, you are going through the typical roller coaster of strength, uncertainty, strength, self-doubt, srength, sadness, anger, and so on. It goes on for a while. 

Why? 

Because you are capable of introspection, looking at things retroactively, and analyzing the situation. He doesn't appear to have that app installed in his brain. It sucks that you are the recipient of his confusion. But it's not YOU who are confused. It's getting through to you by... osmosis or something. His actions haven't made sense to a LTR in a long time. His idea of an LTR is to have more than one, apparently, at a time. 

Don't fool yourself, these nebulous feelings he's having for OW are enough for him to fly and see her and stay with her, so the back story you're getting is nowhere near the "front" story he's giving her. 

He should never work in a bakery, he eats too much cake as it is.


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## darklilly23

What does it mean or is it strange that I don't care if stbxh sleeps with OW?
In fact I really kind of hope he go's ahead and makes his bed so to speak, I kind of feel that it is the only thing that will ever wake stbxh up to the true nature of a woman who was after a married man while she was married.
You would think that would be my worse nightmare but since stbx slept with OW along time ago I guess it was his heart that disturbed me about their relationship.

However I can't stop thinking about his lack of character and honor, this is what is really killing me.
I guess because he already gave her his body and heart once upon a time. I don't know.

Any thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I think you married what you THOUGHT he was, which was just what he allowed you to see. Now you know.


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## Soveryalone

I am still a little fuzzy about the details, and maybe I need to reread some posts, but so far from what I have read, he just sounds confusing more than anything, he tells darklilly he is in love with her and it sounds like he just had unresolved thoughts / feelings for this OW. I know she said he got close to this OW and helped her through her own divorce , but did an EA ever happen ? I read a lot on this forum and many times its black and white , wrong and right, but this situation seems very much grey to me. 

I don't think its strange at all that you don't care if he sleeps with her, I know you have your rough times , but its also obvious you are a very strong person. And as far as you constantly thinking about his lack of honor and character , I think you have a great deal of both traits , based on your posts anyways. and we attract and are attracted to people who have similar qualities, and now you see his true self?


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## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> What does it mean or is it strange that I don't care if stbxh sleeps with OW?
> 
> *It means that you are finally starting to get to that place of disengagement. That's a healthy thing, m'dear.*
> 
> In fact I really kind of hope he go's ahead and makes his bed so to speak, I kind of feel that it is the only thing that will ever wake stbxh up to the true nature of a woman who was after a married man while she was married.
> 
> *Ah, and even if you're not around to watch the destruction, it should give you some satisfaction that he's doing this to himself. You tried to keep him from it, and one day (I hope) he'll recognize what you tried to do for him. I hope, for your sake, that it's not too soon. Not that you're weak, but love is a funny critter.... And you loved him (who you thought he was) a great deal at one time. *
> 
> You would think that would be my worse nightmare but since stbx slept with OW along time ago I guess it was his heart that disturbed me about their relationship.
> 
> *Sounds to me like it's also YOUR heart that's disturbed you. That's natural. But if you are honest about your first sentence above, your heart is starting to heal. I pray that's the truth for you.*
> 
> However I can't stop thinking about his lack of character and honor, this is what is really killing me.
> I guess because he already gave her his body and heart once upon a time. I don't know.
> 
> *It's the biggest disappointment in life that your choice of a lifelong mate turns out to be nothing like that person you married. So it's natural that these things come to mind. It's one of the biggest parts of the hit to your own id (not ego, but the inner self, the inner voice). I'd venture to guess even he doesn't know, which is why he's telling stories out both sides of his mouth.*
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> *You're doing a LOT of growth through this horror in life. It's obvious even through this computer screen. So the thought of the day is, way to go, DarkLilly!!! Stay strong, live well. *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> I am still a little fuzzy about the details, and maybe I need to reread some posts, but so far from what I have read, he just sounds confusing more than anything, he tells darklilly he is in love with her and it sounds like he just had unresolved thoughts / feelings for this OW. I know she said he got close to this OW and helped her through her own divorce , but did an EA ever happen ? I read a lot on this forum and many times its black and white , wrong and right, but this situation seems very much grey to me.
> 
> I don't think its strange at all that you don't care if he sleeps with her, I know you have your rough times , but its also obvious you are a very strong person. And as far as you constantly thinking about his lack of honor and character , I think you have a great deal of both traits , based on your posts anyways. and we attract and are attracted to people who have similar qualities, and now you see his true self?


Sovery, 

I guess you could call this a long tearm EA, OW was keeping stbxh as a back up plan and has basically all but said so.
Stbx and OW had a fling when OW was engaged, they never told OWH about their relationship so from the outside it was a "friendship" but if you knew there history it was clear that they were crossing over into nonplatonic territory, stbxh would delet her texts emails ect telling me it was not my business, I told stbxh that this behavior and not understanding that OW was up to no good hurt me, but 

stbxh did not care and keep contact anyway. OW has very low self esteem and she gets off on manipulating men that are of her same rank (nerds in highschool that she played with and rejected to give herself a boost) the fact that stbx was once so deeply in love and easly manpulated by OW was unhealth to our marriage. OW has/ is causing trouble in another couples marriage with another "guy friend" that she slept with. There should only be two in a marriage. Anything else is dangerous. At the very least OWH should have not been lied to about my stbxh and OWS past and the bounderys should have been put into the hands of myself and OWH not keept secret and protected from the spouses. That is IMHO a EA 

I understand your confusion over my story, I am confused as well.
The thing is all this has been vague and hard to define which is why it has been so hard for me to stand up and defend my self on this issue.
I would get called parinoid and jealous, but I knew something was very wrong. ( if it was not wrong then stbxh would have not told me and the MC to go to heck and he would not be in another state right now trying to figure out if he loves this woman or not).
I just did not trust my gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> I don't think its strange at all that you don't care if he sleeps with her, I know you have your rough times , but its also obvious you are a very strong person. And as far as you constantly thinking about his lack of honor and character , I think you have a great deal of both traits , based on your posts anyways. and we attract and are attracted to people who have similar qualities, and now you see his true self?


Thanks for this! I really try to have honor  even when I am being [email protected] over a barrel and there is that evil part that wants revenge but lucky I am unable to sink that low 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Double,

You're doing a LOT of growth through this horror in life. It's obvious even through this computer screen. So the thought of the day is, way to go, DarkLilly!!! Stay strong, live well. 

Thanks for this! I am lucky to have such a good cheering squad!!!
Thank you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Gerr spellcheck drives me crazy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Lilly, my H has endured more issues in his career than any man deserves. I keep telling him that, no matter what, he can look himself in the mirror, while many others can't. And, to me, that's all that matters.


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## darklilly23

Oh I am having the strangest thing happen, I am having the worlds worst desire to run to stbxh, weird...
All week I have been fine, wonderful, happy that he is out of my life and now that he is back In town I just want to go home to the life I used to know.
I hope all thouse feel good bonding chemicals about stbx leave soon...
I must admit I really don't like this ghost longing  

I find this really odd since I was just saying to my self yesterday "Oh he gone for another day, hurray!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Then again maybe I just miss netflicks and having my own place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

I haven't been getting email notifications on this thread, thanks for clearing things up , it must be something in the air tonight , my Ex emailed me earlier and it took every ounce of strength I had to not read and just delete it , but I am fighting the urge , I know it was her who was calling me these past days and I saw the start of her email and she was being sweet , and I am SO temped to email her or call her , and its because its familiar to me, its all I knew for so long.

You are wanting to go back to how it was with him for it to be how it once was, for him to be the honorable and loyal husband and now you aren't sure he has those qualities, and you know I was optimistic about your situation :scratchhead: best I could understand and who knows maybe down the road things might change , but it seems like for right now this is how it is  

I am so sorry this is happening , it breaks my heart for you, you are going to get through this , I know it !!


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## darklilly23

Well I texted stbx about bussiness and he said he is going to send me a email detailing his trip and that he is not doing well,
So I am bracing myself, for what I don't know but I sure as [email protected] am batting down the hatches...




_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

you should just stop posting on here after one last post " to find out what the email says BUY MY BOOK"  I think the email will sound something like thing " I feel so stupid and I am so full of regret, this was all a big mistake please forgive me , lets forget this whole thing and move past this , together" No big shocker he isn't doing well, he came close to losing you


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> you should just stop posting on here after one last post " to find out what the email says BUY MY BOOK"  I think the email will sound something like thing " I feel so stupid and I am so full of regret, this was all a big mistake please forgive me , lets forget this whole thing and move past this , together" No big shocker he isn't doing well, he came close to losing you


Lol sovery, cheering me up... 

Yep if I can't make a buck off my pain and suffering, well then slap me silly. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

haha cheering people up is sorta my thing  at least it used to be before my brain turned into this swirling , spinning , out of control mess, maybe me starting to feel like my old self trying to cheer people up is a good sign ?


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> haha cheering people up is sorta my thing  at least it used to be before my brain turned into this swirling , spinning , out of control mess, maybe me starting to feel like my old self trying to cheer people up is a good sign ?


Sounds like a good sign to me! 

I think anything that makes you feel like " your old self" in a good way is a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Ok so stbxh is back from his trip, turns out that he lied about the vision quest thing and has known for a month that he was spending the week and a half with OWs sibling..,, sigh

Stbx wrote me a email that basically said he was going to other state to try to forget about be but he felt like [email protected] then he was there, in fact it made him desperately miss me .
He says he told OW that he feels nothing for her compared to what he feels for me... Sigh...

But stbxh shows no signs of remorse or of begging me to take him back, so I guess I am still as lost and confused as I was before STBXs letter.

It's just so strange "blah, blah , blah I can't live without you, oh well" WTF?!?

I guess I feel better because at least stbx is saying he still feels strongly for me and the tone of his letter was at least gentle compared to the time he told me and the therapists to go to heck. 
The letter was the classic oops I really fugged up letter with out the admittance of having fugged up and without the frantic plea of please take me back.

What do you guys make of this and what do you think might happen in the future? Aka do you think I will ever get the "oh [email protected] I was wrong I am sorry" letter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

lilly, if he ever gets his head out of his ass and truly is remorseful and willing to move heaven and earth to earn you back...YOU'LL KNOW.

What you're getting now is crumbs, all he's willing to dispense, in an attempt to get more cake from you.

You deserve better.


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## alte Dame

turnera said:


> lilly, if he ever gets his head out of his ass and truly is remorseful and willing to move heaven and earth to earn you back...YOU'LL KNOW.
> 
> What you're getting now is crumbs, all he's willing to dispense, in an attempt to get more cake from you.
> 
> You deserve better.


100X.

Your H has real issues re his understanding of 'how the real world works.' I think because of this, you may never get the reaction you would normally expect from someone.

If I were you, I would stay as dark as possible and try to lead your life. He sounds narcissistic, but also deluded, at least about this.

If you want a life with him, he has to understand what marital commitment and boundaries are. He has to know that it's either you or an OW, but not both.


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## Soveryalone

*Stbx wrote me a email that basically said he was going to other state to try to forget about be but he felt like [email protected] then he was there, in fact it made him desperately miss me .
He says he told OW that he feels nothing for her compared to what he feels for me... Sigh...*

I said that in an earlier post , that perhaps he was going there to gauge his feelings for you:smthumbup: So now what are you thinking , are you and him going to try to make it work ? 

I know many people on this site become protective of others when they read their threads because they see bits and pieces of their own stories , but I would just chalk this up to your husband being confused and insensitive to you over time, should he have cut off ties with her when you asked, yes 100%, did he, no, and only you know exactly how much he realized he was hurting you and your marriage. You love him enough to have worked this hard at the marriage and I really feel he loves you as much as you love him, he just became confused and perhaps emotionally manipulated by OW. 

His email was pretty much what I expected. The second he saw her again he knew who he was in love with, and it wasn't her, the person he is in love with is you :smthumbup: 

Wish my story was going to work out how yours seems to be headed, hopefully you keep us posted over time to let us know how things are going.


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> *Stbx wrote me a email that basically said he was going to other state to try to forget about be but he felt like [email protected] then he was there, in fact it made him desperately miss me .
> He says he told OW that he feels nothing for her compared to what he feels for me... Sigh...*
> 
> I said that in an earlier post , that perhaps he was going there to gauge his feelings for you:smthumbup: So now what are you thinking , are you and him going to try to make it work ?
> 
> I know many people on this site become protective of others when they read their threads because they see bits and pieces of their own stories , but I would just chalk this up to your husband being confused and insensitive to you over time, should he have cut off ties with her when you asked, yes 100%, did he, no, and only you know exactly how much he realized he was hurting you and your marriage. You love him enough to have worked this hard at the marriage and I really feel he loves you as much as you love him, he just became confused and perhaps emotionally manipulated by OW.
> 
> His email was pretty much what I expected. The second he saw her again he knew who he was in love with, and it wasn't her, the person he is in love with is you :smthumbup:
> 
> Wish my story was going to work out how yours seems to be headed, hopefully you keep us posted over time to let us know how things are going.



Well stbxh is showing no signs of wanting to stay in the marriage  
So I don't really know what his letter means, I asked him if he wanted the marriage and he said "more than anything" 
And I said what are you willing to do to show me that you want it?
I asked If he will cut all contact with his exs and he said "well I guess we can go back to what I was doing before but I can't not want to talk to them"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

He sent that letter cos he wanted your sympathy. He wanted you to 'do' for him, as he's always expected you to do.


----------



## Soveryalone

*Well stbxh is showing no signs of wanting to stay in the marriage* 

He hasn't earned your trust at all in this whole fiasco ,however why don't you just say sure be friends with whomever you want to him, and tell him you will do the same, rekindle a friendship with an Ex, see how quickly he changes his mind. I am not suggesting you play games however sometimes giving someone a taste of their own medicine is precisely what needs to happen.


----------



## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> *Well stbxh is showing no signs of wanting to stay in the marriage*
> 
> He hasn't earned your trust at all in this whole fiasco ,however why don't you just say sure be friends with whomever you want to him, and tell him you will do the same, rekindle a friendship with an Ex, see how quickly he changes his mind. I am not suggesting you play games however sometimes giving someone a taste of their own medicine is precisely what needs to happen.


Yeah, I wish he could have some of his own medicine, 
Only problem with that is one I could never hurt him like not in my nature that and two he was my first "everything" first kiss etc. so no history for him to have to worry about.  sniff....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Well isnt he lucky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

It just seems to me that he has to not want to hurt you more than he wants to stay in touch with his exes. That's what a real commitment is. That's part of loving someone.


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## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> It just seems to me that he has to not want to hurt you more than he wants to stay in touch with his exes. That's what a real commitment is. That's part of loving someone.


I 100% agree!

Its this very thing I could never seem to get through stbx little skull...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

You know, it is just now hitting me that stbxh lied to me for a whole month about going on his vision quest, lied to me about what friend he was staying with, (he stayed with OWs sibling) said he did not think he wanted to see OW and he was going to stay with the safe friend... 
[email protected], why am I not p!ssed about those facts? 

The one thing that was most important to our relationship was the truth. And it does not even matter to me that he lied, I guess that's how far gone I am in all this...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

You knew he was lying, didn't you? If you expected it, it's a disappointment to have it confirmed, but it's not a surprise. Have you considered that he hasn't always been so honest with you? He did this quite easily.


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## Soveryalone

Well it hurts when the person we love lies to us, deeply !! You said it earlier he was your first love , first kiss , first everything and please don't take offense to this but, even though you did marry him , maybe there is someone out there that wont make you have so much doubt in their love, someone who will respect your wishes , and someone who will not push your patience and trust to the limit, because I don't care if a couple has the most insanely amazing relationship in the world , if an Ex love comes into the picture , it will cause issues , for one or the other or both. It was normal and natural for you to worry and perhaps be jealous, and maybe just because he was your first love , you just sort of went with the flow? 
I am sure there is someone out there who will put your happiness ahead of their own, because it sounds to me like he knows how much keeping in touch with former loves bothers you and yet he does so anyways, why does he need them around ? he isn't married to them he is married to YOU ! sorry to be so agro I am in a mood , my friend keeps pushing and pushing me to be with her but I am so not ready for anything serious haha ps I wasn't trying to be impolite about all of this , I just want you to be treated properly and be happy and not have to worry about OW. who knows maybe , if this does not work and you and him do get divorced , down the road maybe you meet someone and discover what you thought love was with your STBX, wasn't love at all


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## darklilly23

Ok guys , I know I should stay dark and usually I do but I really want to send a reply email pointing out the lie.
I had expressed worry over STBXs safety in a sweat lodge and know know he just let me be a fool, so may I just this once send this letter?

But if you guys think it would be damaging the effort?
I just know that stbx is going to talk to friends and family and he would be sure to tell them what I said in rebuttal email
And I think that would have a good effect, just a hunch.

Mr Darklilly,

I while I do thank you for your now honesty I now realize that you lied to me on multiple levels and the funny thing is there was absolutely no reason that you
should have been less than a man about whatever you are doing. (That is me assuming you believe what you were is doing is the right thing for you.)

I was actually quite concerned about your safety as people have been dying in "white run lodges" 

If there was ever one thing that attracted me to you it was your unwavering commitment to the truth and on looking back to reading your e mail I realized that I did not care that you had lied and made me a fool in my caring for you. I just did not care, I am that numb. 
And that is scary to me, that I am that far gone in all of this.

There is no need to lie, if you are having to lie to others there is a good chance you are lying to yourself.

That being said thank you again, I do appreciate your letter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

I think letters like that are solely for the satisfaction of the BS. In my opinion, whether you want to just move on or still hope that he will see the light, you should stay dark. He's too used to having two women on his string. You should keep yourself out of the equation, imo. (I know this is very hard to do. I know.)


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## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> I think letters like that are solely for the satisfaction of the BS. In my opinion, whether you want to just move on or still hope that he will see the light, you should stay dark. He's too used to having two women on his string. You should keep yourself out of the equation, imo. (I know this is very hard to do. I know.)


That's what I was afraid you were going to say 
But figuared that I might need to think about, I guess no matter what I am still playing into him by even showing that I need to prove a point.
I guess if he comes back years later I can just point it out to him. 

There will probably never be that rock bottom "Oh sh!t" moment for stbx unless he really knows I am detached.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

or just write an email tonight but don't send , save it reread tomorrow morning and decide whether to send. if you and him are still communicating , text or email, and you have something to say to him, or something to ask , I say go with what your heart says, don't worry about breaking some " cookie cutter" set of guidelines , a lot of times on this site I notice people have very black and white views , they almost copy and paste steps to take , do's and don'ts however each situation , each couple is different imho


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## Cee Paul

As the saying goes and is very true: "only room for ONE rooster in the hen house". :smthumbup:


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## Acabado

Take it just as inventary, more revealing truths about who he is.
He gives sh1t about whatever letter you might send, learn to give sh1t yourself.
I know it's hard, you are doing just fine, way ahead tough.


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## PamJ

I would not send any letter now. He is trying to engage you and will probably keep trying to prove his point. If you do the same he know he still has you hooked. 

I have had to accept that my WH, no matter how sincere, no matter how much he loves me, will never truly be able to know what he did feels like to me. He thinks he knows, he wants to know, but he can't, really. And he may never be able to express, to my satisfaction anyway, WHY he did what he did this last time.

I don't think you will really get what you want from him this way. That being said, I write letters/emails all the time and don't send them. Sometimes I keep them and update them, sometimes I delete them , but very seldom do I send them.


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## turnera

All that would do is feed his ego. And he's got plenty of that already.


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## darklilly23

Point taken, had to talk to him about apt. But I sent no letter.

He said OW and him fought, she did not want him talking about how much he loved me, that it hurt her lol
Hello monkey crazy scank, welcome to what used to be my world, its a magical place called "Cakeland".
Sorry, just needed to rant, OW has had stbxh for a couple of months, I have had him for a decade how crazy are some people?
How can they lack the morals not to mess with a married man? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

So he slept with OW while on his trip...
Big surprise... 
I am still in shock but completely not surprised, that's a odd place to be in....

...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> So he slept with OW while on his trip...
> Big surprise...
> I am still in shock but completely not surprised, that's a odd place to be in....
> 
> ...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how did you come across this information?


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## darklilly23

He texted stuff, then he called and confesed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> He texted stuff, then he called and confesed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So let me get this right, he texts and calls his STBexW that he slept with his "just a friend"? What was he looking for by doing this? Really? Did you ask that question?

If you ever had any doubt about leaving him, your doubts should all be over with by now.


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## darklilly23

Nope no doubt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Darklilly , for your own well being please stop all contact with him at least for the time being, whether you realize it or not , you are in shock ( even though you had said you didn't care if they slept together I know deep down how deeply it hurts) I know you said it was his lack of honor and character that had you obsessing, and now throw this into the mix, I know you will try to shrug it off, but your husband was emotionally intimate with this woman for a long time , and now he has been physically intimate with her, and you are going to feel the need to know every single detail ( if you are like 95%% of people) I know they had been physically together in the past and you did a lot of work coping with that and it should lessen the blow, but the bottom line in , you and him weren't married when he was with her sexually , you are married now and that will likely effect you on a different level-- and the details are just going to make your healing process take much longer. That's just my opinion , and others might say you need to know all the details in order to feel the pain and then move on. after reading all of your posts , I tend to see similarities between you and I, and trust me my life would already be back to normal , for the most part had I not pushed for details. I am so deeply sorry for you, I know how badly it hurts. And its not just the fact he was physically intimate with her , its just one more thing thrown into the mix. Huge hugs to you, and email me if you want , here or my email is [email protected]


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## The Middleman

I think that this call was him throwing a rock at you. He knew it would hurt you if you knew that he slept with his "just a friend". Why else would he call to tell you? Because he's torn about it?

Soveryalone is right. Break off all contact with him and have him served. Have your cell phone company block his numbers. Get angry (yes, it can be a useful emotion when properly channeled) and then get the poison out of your life.


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## darklilly23

The Middleman said:


> I think that this call was him throwing a rock at you. He knew it would hurt you if you knew that he slept with his "just a friend". Why else would he call to tell you? Because he's torn about it?
> 
> Soveryalone is right. Break off all contact with him and have him served. Have your cell phone company block his numbers. Get angry (yes, it can be a useful emotion when properly channeled) and then get the poison out of your life.


Yeah, will do, I told him there was no chance in [email protected] we would ever get back togeather 
Called him a bunch of choice words... Lol strings of words really...

I feel like I just joined a different club on TAM...
I will cut. Contact as soon as everything is wrapped up!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

I believe he telling you this is no more that his attempt to solidify his narrative: your refusal to drop your controling ways (normal boundaires) and allow him to have his "special friend" (cake on the side) is what made him to reconsider he could have indeed romantic feelings for her (the he never had previously) and of course was the only cause of the divorce. Basically, he needs you to accept, admit, voice you were wrong, forced the divorce and pushed him towards her arms and now it's too late... for you. Furthermore you own him pity, you should acknowledge you broke his heart.

Nothing new under the sun. He won't own his stuff ever. Notice there's no trace of humility nor empathy in his delivery, very telling about his real motivations and mindset. ME, ME, ME.


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## darklilly23

WTH? King if lack of empathy could let some one do this?!?!

He said because the marriage is over he is not cheating! I am so tired of his half truth loopholes!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

I honestly try to I again doing that to him an I can't! even if the marriage is going to [email protected], esp if it is going badly, I would feel like the dying relationship deserved dignity until final . 
I feel like I owe my spouse at least " till the end do us part"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

darklilly23 said:


> WTH? King if lack of empathy could let some one do this?!?!
> 
> He said because the marriage is over he is not cheating! I am so tired of his half truth loopholes!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keeping in contact with him is just going to cause you more and more pain. Please go NC with him as soon as possible.


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## Acabado

Yes! go NC, expect it's absolutly necessary.
The urge to make him understand and validate you will pass. I promise.
Re read your thread, the advice already given to detach.


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## Soveryalone

I wish these WS's realized the flood gates they opened up and the magnitude of their actions , and for those who just volunteer up information to appease their own minds, to relieve themselves of some guilt , I say this - you chose to have intercourse with someone other than your husband/wife. the guilt eating you up inside , deal with that shlt on your own, it will only cause more pain than you can ever imagine.


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## darklilly23

I am walking in to work, talking and smiling at people and for the first time I feel single.
Not bad.....

Kind if feel like I have been taken off the rack...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

Perhaps receiving the news from him that he slept with her helped give you some perspective, sorry if someone does that once , it will happen again, and sorry buddy that's not love, keep smiling !!! and being single isn't all that bad, don't rush anything !!! You are still in shock I think?


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## alte Dame

Acabado said:


> I believe he telling you this is no more that his attempt to solidify his narrative: your refusal to drop your controling ways (normal boundaires) and allow him to have his "special friend" (cake on the side) is what made him to reconsider he could have indeed romantic feelings for her (the he never had previously) and of course was the only cause of the divorce. Basically, he needs you to accept, admit, voice you were wrong, forced the divorce and pushed him towards her arms and now it's too late... for you. Furthermore you own him pity, you should acknowledge you broke his heart.
> 
> Nothing new under the sun. He won't own his stuff ever. Notice there's no trace of humility nor empathy in his delivery, very telling about his real motivations and mindset. ME, ME, ME.


This is his justification. This is how he has been spinning it in his mind and to you. You drove him to it! This is what he's been moving to all along. I know you know this - you've said it - but try to keep it in mind. He has had a mental plan all along to justify what he was doing.

We're all begging you to go and stay dark. If you don't, you continue to feed his delusions about everything & stall the healing that you need for yourself.


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## darklilly23

alte Dame said:


> This is his justification. This is how he has been spinning it in his mind and to you. You drove him to it! This is what he's been moving to all along. I know you know this - you've said it - but try to keep it in mind. He has had a mental plan all along to justify what he was doing.
> 
> We're all begging you to go and stay dark. If you don't, you continue to feed his delusions about everything & stall the healing that you need for yourself.


Darkness begging noted and other than nesasary stuff, engaged...

There is abosoululy nothing left that I need to know! I dont even care if his life gos to [email protected] at least I don't care rightnow anyway and that is nice.

I was still kind of on the line thinking he was crazy or something, so I could not entirely say that I would not talk to him In the future because I so desperately tryed to understand how someone who had high morals and professed to live me more than life it's self could willingly turn a blind eye to my suffering.

But now I know beyond a shadow of a doubt he is a a$$ hole..,
He knew for a whole month where he was going and and from what I was picking up on k we he was going to sleep with her , despite what he says on the surface " I did not even really go up there for her" BULL.... Letting me worry about his safty in a sweat lodge .

If he was my soul mate he would do as I would do, not harm my mate evenwhen we were parting ways

Nope, he is a grade A$$ hole
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Ok so I am tired of being a victim of stbxh, and I no longer give a [email protected] about my "loyalty" to be a good person to the marriage.
Don't get me wrong I will not betray my vows but I am not going to feel guilty about flirting any more.
Heck I don't even know how to flirt, this was my first relationship.

A friend wanted to know if I would go on dates if she set me up.
Good idea or bad idea? I want to do the right thing and retain my honor, but frankly I am just shaterd that stbx sleep with Ow.

Thoughts?

Is this a healthy way to feel right now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Definitely healthy to think that way. Not so much, to act that way. Right now, try to hang out in groups. Get used to just hanging out with people with no agenda. You're in no shape to get one on one with another guy right now. Just have fun.


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## The Middleman

turnera said:


> Definitely healthy to think that way. Not so much, to act that way. Right now, try to hang out in groups. Get used to just hanging out with people with no agenda. You're in no shape to get one on one with another guy right now. Just have fun.


I would agree with this, at least until you got the paperwork going (meaning him served). Keeps you "above board". However, there is noting wrong with going out.


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## darklilly23

I am thinking about pawning all my jewelry to go to a event that I want to go to.
That's how done I am with STBXH...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Do something that makes you happy. Pawning jewelry sounds a little much (to me), but then, I've never pawned a thing in my life so what do I know. 

It does sound like you just got hit by a tidal wave. Hang on, ride it out. You will survive and you'll be way strong on the other side of this. 

As I was reading through the regular posts, I had it already figured he was lying to you and THE purpose for going was to get laid by OW. I hate it when I'm right about bad things. But here's what you have to work with: Your own self esteem, your own healing. You are not responsible for his actions (except some legally until D is done), you can only change yourself. remember who you were before H, and remember the little girl inside you, what she wanted in life. You started down that road, but the wrong man came along, showed you a mask instead of who he really was, and you got snookered. 

Been there, done that. 

But now that you are (once again) detaching, and this time is seems you are a little more firm, based on the painful news, you will better be able to see yourself as an individual. We get married to enhance each other, not to take some random person in the world and mess with their heads and hearts. What you've had for quite some time is someone who has NOT been good for you. You've had your fill of that abuse (and I do call it abuse, emotional abuse), and it's time to clean your slate and start over. 

For you to say you went out in the world and felt single, isn't that somewhat liberating to say? You get a chance to recalibrate your life, start doing all the things YOU want to do (like going to this event) and be DarkLilly. Hell, we might even start calling you LightLilly once your heart lightens up from this body slam onto a bed of nails. 

I agree it's too early to date, but you can sure go out and have some fun. Lighten up your days a little. eventually, whe you're ready, start something with someone new. Make sure your boundaries are set in place very early in the relationship. And keep moving, keep learning. It's what we're all here on this planet to do.


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## Soveryalone

You know you are ready to date when you don't mention your STBXH once or even feel the need to mention him, if you are talking with someone new and are able to laugh, smile and feel comfortable , and don't mention STBXH then you are all set, but I would agree with previous posts, just go and have fun in groups , and its completely natural to feel the need to get close to a new person because in our minds we think , new person= possible new love = ability to forget the past and move on, sadly its just not the case. 

As far as you flirting goes , just smile and laugh at all his jokes , funny or not, be yourself, that's about it I think , I have heard this 10000000000000 times at this point , but its just a waiting game, but you can speed up the moving on process or slow it down , you can allow it to keep your wheels spinning in the mud ( which doesn't at all fit your personality best I can judge) or stay busy with work and friends, try your best to keep your mind off of him, your marriage, and physically force yourself to push forward.

in closing I say this , get involved with someone too soon and its so unfair to them !!! I have learned this the hard way and I am really making several people very angry with me


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## weightlifter

One thing I noticed.

You almost seemed relieved when he went on the trip (around Aug 1 or 2) and figured he would sleep with her but could not figure out why.

Ill take a stab at it: 

CLOSURE. Once he put his thingy in another womans hooch it was the final nail in the coffin. That last trifle of fidelity was now gone.

Reference: HTD thread. He was slightly open to R until his wife did the deed. He warned her once that once it went physical there was ZERO chance of R even if R was only a very distant possibility.

Of course once you learned it did happen you grieved for the closing of the final door.


----------



## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> One thing I noticed.
> 
> You almost seemed relieved when he went on the trip (around Aug 1 or 2) and figured he would sleep with her but could not figure out why.
> 
> Ill take a stab at it:
> 
> CLOSURE. Once he put his thingy in another womans hooch it was the final nail in the coffin. That last trifle of fidelity was now gone.
> 
> Reference: HTD thread. He was slightly open to R until his wife did the deed. He warned her once that once it went physical there was ZERO chance of R even if R was only a very distant possibility.
> 
> Of course once you learned it did happen you grieved for the closing of the final door.


Ah so you think he slept with ow to kill his feelings for me?
That seems to be what my stbx was saying to me and then him and ow got into a fight because he said that putting tab a into slot b killed nothing and made him miss me worse lol...

And ow was upset by this, no $hit...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

They deserve each other. 

You deserve better.


----------



## Soveryalone

:scratchhead: if his love for you was so strong would he have been able to do the deed with OW ? I am baffled as always by your STBXH
So he was protecting you by not telling you the truth about his trip ( lying) and Is sending mixed messages " I am so in love with you but I wanted to be intimate with OW" They get into a fight after because he tells her how much he missed you. So have you and him had more contact since he told you he slept with her ?


----------



## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> :scratchhead: if his love for you was so strong would he have been able to do the deed with OW ? I am baffled as always by your STBXH
> So he was protecting you by not telling you the truth about his trip ( lying) and Is sending mixed messages " I am so in love with you but I wanted to be intimate with OW" They get into a fight after because he tells her how much he missed you. So have you and him had more contact since he told you he slept with her ?


Nope no more contact other than little bits like "what time do I go to apt? Are you gone yet?" Type stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Yeah he was not protecting me he was trying to get me to sign papers quicker lol
And he was being a coward chicken $hit because he knew I would rip him to shreds...

I am sooo done with theses stupid sick games, I am dead serious!!!
I am no longer amused... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

i am having one of those why the f_ck did I ever fall in love to begin with days, drinking Bacardi so any future posts I make tonight , ignore them, I know its tough , but do your best to keep your distance from him


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## Soveryalone

FB is evil !!!


----------



## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> FB is evil !!!


Agreed, one of the many ways things went wrong in my story...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soveryalone

if FB didn't exist I would still be in Georgia , home with my Ex , oh well


----------



## WallsAreUp

FB is how my wife got back in touch with an old boyfriend too. Technology is a great thing in so many ways but it definitely makes it easier to reach out to old flames.


----------



## doubletrouble

We both deleted our FB accounts after DDay. And tossed the smart phones.


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## darklilly23

doubletrouble said:


> We both deleted our FB accounts after DDay. And tossed the smart phones.


Good move. I think in time, like 100 years or something more rules and protocol will be put in place so that it won't be a outrageous thing to have all pass words etc.
Of course cheats will find away around it like they always have but since our identity is becoming more and more our technology, that will have to become "one technology" just as we become "one flesh" right now we are dealing with this idea of self centered privacy within relationships which IMO does not work, and go's counter to the idea of love and bonding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas28

darklilly23 said:


> Good move. I think in time, like 100 years or something more rules and protocol will be put in place so that it won't be a outrageous thing to have all pass words etc.
> Of course cheats will find away around it like they always have but since our identity is becoming more and more our technology, that will have to become "one technology" just as we become "one flesh" right now we are dealing with this idea of self centered privacy within relationships which IMO does not work, and go's counter to the idea of love and bonding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree - how can you be honest and open with someone if you aren't willing to let your spouse see your Facebook or e-mail? Not that a spouse should have to look through every one of your conversations or e-mails - but there should be an openness there that it'd be okay if you did look.


----------



## PamJ

Innovation has made cheating easier over the centuries, not just the last decade. Think about it, driving to someone's house to cheat instead of walking, horseback, whatever. Flying off with someone. Telephones instead of letters or messengers. Computers instead of landlines, cell phones instead of computers and now smart phones. Cheaters will cheat, liars will lie, they just will. FB is the new High School Reunion.


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## darklilly23

PamJ said:


> Innovation has made cheating easier over the centuries, not just the last decade. Think about it, driving to someone's house to cheat instead of walking, horseback, whatever. Flying off with someone. Telephones instead of letters or messengers. Computers instead of landlines, cell phones instead of computers and now smart phones. Cheaters will cheat, liars will lie, they just will. FB is the new High School Reunion.


Yeah and there is nothing more important than my stbxhs HS reunion. I knew there was something very wrong when stbxh would spend a grand on going there and we had hardly any money for food
Or other things we needed. And I would ask "how are we going to afford this apt. with the low paying jobs we have?"
Stbxh had a job that mostly older people have because you don't have to do anything but play on the Internet all night.

One night he a actuly scared me because he came back for his lap top (leaving his job in the middle of the night) 
Because it was so important that he could be on FB at work, yet he would not take the day off to be with me and family on Easter because he "needed the money for his HS reunion"

Sorry. Just venting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

When W and I got together, she said she wanted my email pw and supposedly gave me hers. I never checked hers for 10 months. Turns out she gave me the wrong one. Had I known what was going on then, we would NOT be together today, despite our years of pervious friendship. She was not in love with me, I found that much out. Now she says she is, and most of the time I believe her. 

Transparency. Why would you NOT want it in your life mate relationship? I want someone I can COUNT on, not hide crap from.


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## Soveryalone

I totally agree about being open and transparent with your SO. My entire relationship my Ex knew every single password, could freely go on my FB, knew my voicemail password, knew every little detail and I never had one issue with it, I had nothing to hide at all. She used to ask to read conversations I would have on FB, in text messages and that was fine. I never knew any of her passwords , I didn't need to know because I did trust her.

Its so very easy to reconnect with old friends/ Exes nowadays, but I don't blame social networking at all , if someone is going to betray their spouse , they will with or without the ease of social networking.

The more I read, and research about relationships and marriages the more I wonder is it even possible for two people to fall in love , get married, remain married without infidelity for their entire lives, and grow old with one another? Or are human beings in modern society incapable of such a love?


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## PamJ

Personally, I don't get the draw of the HS reunion. My H spends a lot of time on a FB page from his HS class and another one from the town he lived in at the time. It's far away and he does not have anything going on with anyone in particular, but I really don't get it.

I graduated 40 years ago. I have a few fond memories but mostly I wanted to be done with HS and out of that tiny town I grew up in. I only have kept in touch, intermittently with 2 people from my class. I have not made it back east for any of the reunions for various reasons but, I really could not justify the time and expense for it.

Sometimes I think those that do view that time in their lives as the best time of their lives. I do not.


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## doubletrouble

Soveryalone said:


> Its so very easy to reconnect with old friends/ Exes nowadays, but I don't blame social networking at all , if someone is going to betray their spouse , they will with or without the ease of social networking.
> 
> The more I read, and research about relationships and marriages the more I wonder is it even possible for two people to fall in love , get married, remain married without infidelity for their entire lives, and grow old with one another? Or are human beings in modern society incapable of such a love?


Yes, it's possible. Everyone's story is different. 

However, I disagree with part of your paragraph above... Social networking makes it so easy to revisit fantasies about real people. That doesn't make a choice about cheating with them correct, but in the 70s, let's say, you actually had to MEET someone to mess around with them. 

Nowadays you can totally trash your marriage online, without ever meeting anyone.


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## Texas28

doubletrouble said:


> Yes, it's possible. Everyone's story is different.
> 
> However, I disagree with part of your paragraph above... Social networking makes it so easy to revisit fantasies about real people. That doesn't make a choice about cheating with them correct, but in the 70s, let's say, you actually had to MEET someone to mess around with them.
> 
> Nowadays you can totally trash your marriage online, without ever meeting anyone.


Agree - social networking, cell phones, smart phones, FaceTime all make EAs so easy to develop.


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> I totally agree about being open and transparent with your SO. My entire relationship my Ex knew every single password, could freely go on my FB, knew my voicemail password, knew every little detail and I never had one issue with it, I had nothing to hide at all. She used to ask to read conversations I would have on FB, in text messages and that was fine. I never knew any of her passwords , I didn't need to know because I did trust her.
> 
> Its so very easy to reconnect with old friends/ Exes nowadays, but I don't blame social networking at all , if someone is going to betray their spouse , they will with or without the ease of social networking.
> 
> The more I read, and research about relationships and marriages the more I wonder is it even possible for two people to fall in love , get married, remain married without infidelity for their entire lives, and grow old with one another? Or are human beings in modern society incapable of such a love?


Of corse they are capable sovery, 

I look at it this way, if it was not for stbxh I would still be pouring my heart and soul into that marriage, I have a feeling you would be doing the same.
Loyalty is still very important to me not just because its right, but at the end of the day I have to live with myself.

I think I was just a really bad judge of character and wanted to make someone that was all talk into something they were not.
There are too many people out there for them not to be different if stbxh and I weren't different then I would have cheated on him years ago out of childish revenge and false entitlement.

Good thing I am not like stbxh, I would not want to have to sleep in that buttered bed that he made for himself lol...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

It just feels like most people these days are more inclined to be selfish, the me,me,me attitude, what makes ME happy, how can I be happier , I guess people will say " its not right to settle on someone" but if you love someone and you feel comfortable with them, and are content , why isn't that enough? I guess maybe its just me something faulty in my wiring, and you are 100%% Lillly, despite all distance between my Ex and I, despite all the troubles we had over the years , if it wasn't for her , I would certainly still be there trying to improve my life, working on the relationship, but Que sera, sera


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> It just feels like most people these days are more inclined to be selfish, the me,me,me attitude, what makes ME happy, how can I be happier , I guess people will say " its not right to settle on someone" but if you love someone and you feel comfortable with them, and are content , why isn't that enough? I guess maybe its just me something faulty in my wiring, and you are 100%% Lillly, despite all distance between my Ex and I, despite all the troubles we had over the years , if it wasn't for her , I would certainly still be there trying to improve my life, working on the relationship, but Que sera, sera


I have actually thought a lot about this and I think that the family used to be so much more important for survival (it still is IMO, that's why we are all so unhappy and going to [email protected] in a hand basket)
You needed a wife to have kids, you needed kids to farm and to take care of you in old age, a woman needed a husband and was royally [email protected] with out a man. Bottom line we really needed each other to survive. (We still do we have just in a different way, which I think we as a society will figure out when we get done flexing our right to have affairs on video game farms)

Can you imagine trying to explain to some farmer who was just trying to make sure his family would not freeze to death next winter "yeah my spouse left me for some guy she met on a invisable farm that she has never seen" apparently he meets her needs...

[email protected] in a hand basket....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

*Can you imagine trying to explane to some farmer who was just trying to make sure his family would not freeze to death next winter "yeah my spouse left me for some guy she met on a invisable farm that she has never seen" apparently he meets her needs...*

So at what point in our civilization did the needs of one family member outweigh the needs of the family as a whole? I think about my grandparents and their generation, my grandfather joined the Marines when he was 16 years old, went off to serve his country came back and married my grandmother. He came from nothing , but worked his ass off to make a life for him and my grandmother. Did couples like that make it ( they were married for nearly 60 years before he passed) just because it was the norm? Was there a deeper sense of honor and loyalty? Has the "American dream" transformed us all into these selfish greedy people? I wish I could get to the root of all of this , because when and IF I do decide to start new with someone , I would really hope I choose someone who wants the same things as me, has the same morals, is as dedicated to making it work as I am.


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## darklilly23

Sovery,
I know for me, the answer in my story was my stbx was full of talk but it contradicted his actions, In the future even though everything is a gamble, I will look for red flags a bit more. I now am looking for actions not just words. 
(He would say that his other girlfriends were immoral while he banged them) therefore this judgements on others made him a "good person" and gave him the messed up ablity to avoid his own guilt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> *Can you imagine trying to explane to some farmer who was just trying to make sure his family would not freeze to death next winter "yeah my spouse left me for some guy she met on a invisable farm that she has never seen" apparently he meets her needs...*
> 
> So at what point in our civilization did the needs of one family member outweigh the needs of the family as a whole? I think about my grandparents and their generation, my grandfather joined the Marines when he was 16 years old, went off to serve his country came back and married my grandmother. He came from nothing , but worked his ass off to make a life for him and my grandmother. Did couples like that make it ( they were married for nearly 60 years before he passed) just because it was the norm? Was there a deeper sense of honor and loyalty? Has the "American dream" transformed us all into these selfish greedy people? I wish I could get to the root of all of this , because when and IF I do decide to start new with someone , I would really hope I choose someone who wants the same things as me, has the same morals, is as dedicated to making it work as I am.


Btw your granddad sounds awesome 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## life101

People cheated all the time. Before affairs didn't get reported this often, and even if they were discovered, people stayed together to keep their reputations intact or because of financial compulsions. 

Technology will always move forward, society will always move forward. How we use the progress is on us. A smartphone doesn't make you smart (or ethical), that has to come from inside through deep introspection. The evils that lie inside all of us will always be there. The 'old times' were not that good either, especially for women and many other sub-sections of people. 

Technology gives the opportunity to make communications easier. Sure. But do you really think that the cheaters wouldn't have cheated just because the means of easy communication was not there? They would simply have found someone living closer to them. If anything, technology makes cheating to get detected lot more easily. Now, we always leave an electronic trail waiting there for someone to find it.

Just my 2 cents.


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## darklilly23

Nope life, you are right, cheaters will be cheaters.

I was just exploring why people seem to give up on marriage so fast in this society.
I do think that things are effected by individuals ability to more or less survive better on there own money wise. 

No doubt things used to be worse in some ways, however I do wonder if the lessened shame that faces people who cheat plays a roll as well.

Remember stoning, tar and feathering, the Scarlet A?
Not saying thouse things were right, just that times have changed.
Now the Scarlet A is being un-PC, think southern TV cooking personalty.

I think public shame go's a long way toward what individual shame boundaries are tested, just a influence though, of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

My mother moved all the way across the country to have her illegitimate baby, so her family wouldn't find out, in the 50s. Welfare turned that around, fast enough.


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## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> I was just exploring why people seem to give up on marriage so fast in this society.


Look around you. Watch television. Go to a movie. And not to Bible-beat, but look where God has gone in this country founded on freedom of religion. 

Our neighbors across the street are both having affairs. We can see their comings and goings. The gal down the street sunbathes in their front yard in a bikini when hubby's at work, but when he's there, she wears decent clothing. I could cite more examples but you get the gist...

It's all around. It requires REAL committment, not just a whitewash at a dream that because you're in love (or think you are) you're going to be OK. Marriage is under attack everywhere.


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## alte Dame

Sociologists and anthropologists point to the introduction of the birth control pill in the 1960's as the trigger for many of these changes, since for the first time in history, women had some sort of real control over the connection between sex and child-bearing, i.e., they were free to be sexually active without thinking of it as something that could/would realistically require marriage.


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## weightlifter

Soveryalone said:


> Its so very easy to reconnect with old friends/ Exes nowadays, but I don't blame social networking at all , if someone is going to betray their spouse , they will with or without the ease of social networking.
> 
> The more I read, and research about relationships and marriages the more I wonder is it even possible for two people to fall in love , get married, remain married without infidelity for their entire lives, and grow old with one another? Or are human beings in modern society incapable of such a love?


Disagree. Tell that to hard to detach. His w was found by old bf on fb. Then they "had coffee". Then she immediately fogged into EA. a monthish later went PA. D is final mid nov. then again his marriage was already weak... And i predict...

By halloween 2014 HTD will have a girlfriend in a far far healthier relationship... And in the first four months of that relationship he will have had more sex than the last 6 years of his marriage. Better, more fulfilling, more intimate more intense. He will be far far happier.

Fb sets up so many affairs...


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## darklilly23

Ok so my stbxh is a @ss hat, he just got done sleeping with other woman after lying to me about it for a month.

And now I am freaking out that it is really over and my best friend is gone, WTH?
Wanting nothing more than to hug him.

Why am I missing someone who just ripped my heart out?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Because he hurt your ego.


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## Soveryalone

You aren't alone Lilly !!! I would walk from Vermont to Georgia for one last hug from my Ex , and she is vial !!! its all part of the processing!! its what you know , its what you have known since you fell in love with him, I am sorry you are having a rough day miss  you aren't alone though , everyone on this site supports you , and I know its not the same and I know you wish it could all go back to how it was, but for right now , take whatever support you can get , just to keep your head above water


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> You aren't alone Lilly !!! I would walk from Vermont to Georgia for one last hug from my Ex , and she is vial !!! its all part of the processing!! its what you know , its what you have known since you fell in love with him, I am sorry you are having a rough day miss  you aren't alone though , everyone on this site supports you , and I know its not the same and I know you wish it could all go back to how it was, but for right now , take whatever support you can get , just to keep your head above water


Thanks guys 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

I know he was your first love , I know how much he means to you, and I know how badly you want to hug him, hold him , but think about this , if you and him decided to try to fix this , and decided to remain married ( and really think about this before you answer) would it not be in the back of your mind for life? the lies , the betrayal , the lack of honor and character he has shown? I am so very sorry and I know you are having a rough day , but I force myself to think about it with my Ex nonstop, if she was to call me crying wanting me back, how on earth could I go back to her? how could I handle that mentally for the rest of my life ? Just try your best to say calm, and really focus on you for now, be with friends , talk on here when you need. It sucks I know , and its part of a horrible transition no one ever wants to make , or is prepared to make, but people do it and they end up happier than ever before.


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## The Middleman

You've done so well so far; don't let this throw you. Please remember you are mourning what existed in the past, not what he is now. You know deep down you are better off without him, as long as he is behaving this way.


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## darklilly23

Yeah, I know I could not take him back if he really called me...
I don't know how I could even look at him and not want to bash his skull in...
Sigh.

I would have no respect for myself either, I think not having my own place and feeling that I will never get ahead is a big part of it.

I think if new jobs would come through I would not freak out so much...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Hang in there girl, you've been doing really well. 

It's a helluva roller coaster. I do know this. It smooths out, but it takes time.


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## darklilly23

Ok, so this really sucks, I am finding Sometimes my feelings are abosoululy dead for my stbxh he having killed it.
And now, surprisingly, and this is hard to admit but my love is not dead, and I can't imaginine life without him WTH?!?

Anyone go through a divorce and get to the other side of all this?
Help...

Please tell me it will get better when I find somebody else or something...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

We all know that you will be OK, but also know that this is extremely painful for you.

You might consider visiting the Divorce and Separation forum here to talk to people who are now experiencing what you are.


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## Soveryalone

I think it does get better if you find someone new and they are the right person, if they aren't, then it just a waste of time for both people ( and it will fizzle out quickly and you will be right back to where you were at emotion wise)


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> Please tell me it will get better when I find somebody else or something...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 More importantly, know that it will get better when you focus on yourself instead of needing to have a man.


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## Soveryalone

*More importantly, know that it will get better when you focus on yourself instead of needing to have a man.* 

I met darklilly a while back on another website and started reading and trying to help her make sense of her situation :scratchhead: And I honestly don't get the impression she "needs" to be with someone , I think she just wants a happy, healthy, fun relationship with someone she can trust and someone who reciprocates the love she has for them, however I am quite sure when the storm and rollercoaster passes she will be totally fine on her own or with someone new :smthumbup:


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## turnera

Then why is she asking to be told it will be better when she finds someone else?


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## weightlifter

DL Read BFF. Dark read and it a male betrayed but picture yourself coming out the other side like BFF.


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## PamJ

Not speaking directly to Darklily, and maybe because we see the condensed version of people lives on here, so time seems shorter, but I see people mention being with someone in what seems like a short time after a divorce, or even while still in the separation phase, and I am thinking why? Take time, get used to your situation, find out who you are and what you want before you get involved again. It doesn't seem like such a good idea to me while you are still sorting these things out.


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## darklilly23

I guess I am more than anything just wanting to believe that there are people out there that would not betray .
Kind of needing to totally let stbxh go forever , getting my brain to understand that he is truly not a safe person to have planed all that so far ahead of time.
I know it sounds silly, but since stbxh was my first. And I had trust issues before I trusted him all this has really tainted my sense of realty. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> DL Read BFF. Dark read and it a male betrayed but picture yourself coming out the other side like BFF.


I will read this, thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PamJ

Of course there are trustworthy people out there. Even if the divorce rate is 50%, not all those divorced cheated, so the odds are still in your favor.

When you are ready you will meet someone who is trustworthy. As you now know the signs , you will not be bamboozled by a sweet talker, who is all talk, and nothing more. BUT, you have to be in that place to let that person in without bringing too much fear into the relationship.

I am not a 'fate' kind of person. I believe that it has to be the right time and you have to take advantage of that time when it happens. 

I am more a believer of serendipity. The right person, the right time, the right frame of mind, and then see what happens. 

Serendipity, it's a good thing.


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## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> I guess I am more than anything just wanting to believe that there are people out there that would not betray .
> Kind of needing to totally let stbxh go forever , getting my brain to understand that he is truly not a safe person to have planed all that so far ahead of time.
> I know it sounds silly, but since stbxh was my first. And I had trust issues before I trusted him all this has really tainted my sense of realty.


There are millions of good people out there. Your stbx is not one of them, sadly for you. I know you are on that roller coaster, it's very familiar. Even in R, I feel it too. Am I lucky because she or I chose to stay? Time will tell. Had I found out two years ago what had gone on, I would have left her for sure. I would've missed my best friend for sure, and felt, once more, horribly betrayed. It's not something you get used to, and I've been cheated on in every LTR I've been in, so I do know of which I speak. 

But even that poor history hasn't made me lose hope. Even though it's hard, and starting over is hard as well, you need to retain your sense of SELF, even deep in a relationship where you want to give all and be all to the other person. You have to love your SELF in order to love someone else. 

It's a time of adjustment, and it's a b1tch. Hang in there, friend, it does get better. You are still fresh in this and learning the new feelings of this situation. I can tell you from personal experience and the miles behind me that it does get better, you just have to hang on to yourself and become the complete DarkLilly that you know is inside you. 

And something that you have to look forward to is that next time, you'll be so much better in a relationship that you'll wonder what was ever such a gold standard in this one. You have one under your belt, so to speak. The next one, and please be in no hurry to get there, will be better because YOU are better. And your man-picker will be, too.


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## Soveryalone

Turnera, I think she is just having a very difficult past few days and is feeling many different emotions , pain one of the major ones I think, and sometimes when people feel that rush of many negative emotions all at once, its natural to want to have that closeness with someone, to feel loved, to feel comforted, its completely normal to feel so drained that focusing on yourself, loving yourself is quite difficult to do and totally natural to feel like someone new might make the whole healing process easier, less painful. But I am quite sure she will be fine in time, its just more difficult for her because this was her first serious relationship , I think?


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## Soveryalone

*I am not a 'fate' kind of person. I believe that it has to be the right time and you have to take advantage of that time when it happens. 

I am more a believer of serendipity. The right person, the right time, the right frame of mind, and then see what happens.*

I always kind of thought that's what fate meant? When two people come into each others life randomly for one reason or another and both decide to take a chance? when the timing is right for both of them, it just sort of happens , if they both want it as badly ? maybe I am wrong :scratchhead:


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## Soveryalone

So my point is this, and I will speak for myself and my story can be read here - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/99985-my-ex-fiance-our-friend.html 
I am still in a great deal of pain, still feel completely shattered and heartbroken and deep down I guess I know that jumping into a new relationship right now might not be the best, the most ideal thing to do, but I am not going to allow my Ex to dictate my life from this day on, it might not be best , or the exact perfect timing but if someone comes along who I cant seem to stop thinking about, someone I have that good feeling about, regardless of what stage I am in in the healing process I am not going to discount someone. I am going to just go with the flow and see what happens  

So I think darklilly needs to follow her heart ( sorry for the cliché) and not jump into something new just because, or just to move on, but if someone comes along and it feels right , and she can separate the needing to move on and actual real feelings , I say why not ?


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## PamJ

<<I always kind of thought that's what fate meant? When two people come into each others life randomly for one reason or another and both decide to take a chance? when the timing is right for both of them, it just sort of happens , if they both want it as badly ? maybe I am wrong >>

I guess what I am trying to say that perhaps there isn't just one person that you are fated to meet, that you should wait for. There may be many people that would be right for your throughout your life but it has to be the right time to meet them and you need to be able and willing to let them in when they appear, as they may not come around again later. In other words more than one "soul-mate" , a term I dislike.


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## Soveryalone

understood PamJ, and I agree that there are many people who may be good/ better/ pretty close to perfect out there for everyone and its just a matter of timing, and hopefully when 2 people are pretty close to perfect for one another and the timing is right , and they both take a chance , good things happen  and I used to think someone was my soul mate but that term seems a bit trite and I agree with you, I am not sure "soul mates" exist, but much like unicorns and pots of gold at the end of a rainbow, I am not sure they exist, I have no proof but really hope they do exist


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## darklilly23

Heh heh, 

soulmate yeah thats what I used to call stbxh till he beat the [email protected] out of my heart, I think soulmate can mean so many things.

New on my list of soulmate definition

1.Empathy aka would not willingly torture you. 

Call me crazy but I don't care how much stbxh and I had in common, the whole protect your SO thing is kind of important lol

I guess I am just kind of unevolved and primal that way


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## darklilly23

Sorry I just had to share this..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...82111180.44994.172587969468528&type=1&theater


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## Soveryalone

lol that was funny  ye I hear ya about soul mates. I certainly felt like something happened when my Ex and I first met ( we first "met" online) but when we met in person, it felt like our souls sort of became one and I CERTAINLY felt it 3 months ago when her soul separated from mine and it became connected with someone else's.


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## PamJ

"New on my list of soulmate definition

1.Empathy aka would not willingly torture you. 

Call me crazy but I don't care how much stbxh and I had in common, the whole protect your SO thing is kind of important lol

I guess I am just kind of unevolved and primal that way "

Not too much to ask. In fact, the common marriage vows are pretty simple, and shouldn't be that hard to keep:

"I, ___, take you, ___, to be my husband/wife. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love and honor you all the days of my life."

Too bad some people don't think about them after they have said them. They are pretty basic.


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## darklilly23

Thanks for the pep talk guys, feeling much better now.
There are kind people in the world, I am just starting to think they all live at TAM 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Did you read BFFs thread?


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## turnera

darklilly23 said:


> I guess I am more than anything just wanting to believe that there are people out there that would not betray
> 
> stbxh was my first.


You know how science works, right? You have to have a large test group, so that you can make accurate analyses. You have exactly one to go off of. So you are skewed toward the one result you've gotten - piss poor.

As you date other men, you'll start seeing that smooth out, to where more men are on the NOT cheating side than are ON the cheating side.

lilly, you're young still. You have decades more of living and dating and having fun. And you're old enough now to be able to afford to do it in style. Just relax and enjoy it.


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## weightlifter

DL

FWIW there are alot of men who dont cheat.

I have not even lip kissed another woman since before exclusivity was agreed on by my wife. This includes EAs too. I simply avoid any alone contact with any female.

I work with a guy who was a dirty dog in his youth. he is proud of his 100% fidelity to his wife.


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## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> DL
> 
> FWIW there are alot of men who dont cheat.
> 
> I have not even lip kissed another woman since before exclusivity was agreed on by my wife. This includes EAs too. I simply avoid any alone contact with any female.
> 
> I work with a guy who was a dirty dog in his youth. he is proud of his 100% fidelity to his wife.


Hey, thank you for this, it is just so hard to believe that someone that you loved could do this sort of thing, I am so glad to know that there are good people out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> Did you read BFFs thread?


What does BFF stand for? , I could not seem to find it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Bff is his name here. Literally.

Just picture yourself there in a year.


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## weightlifter

darklilly23 said:


> Hey, thank you for this, it is just so hard to believe that someone that you loved could do this sort of thing, I am so glad to know that there are good people out there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell me about it. The last thing I was expecting when I went to look at the weather on my wifes comp was her EA with an ex. Thank heavens that half literate hillbilly lives 600 miles away. Still that implicit 100% trust. Gone forever and yes I miss it. Then again, reading others, it could be much much worse. Thorburn, RDMU, Hard To Detach...

I pray you meet just such a man who will love you wholly and completely. After healing, be open to such possibilities... Your STBXH wins if you die a bitter lonely old woman who never tried to love again. Read BFF and believe


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## darklilly23

Update, so my goober of a stbxh is moving out to be with OW, big surprise...
on the other hand I have been slowly getting my head screwed on straight, and I know I still have a long ways to go but I am becoming a person who has a great deal more perspective, knows who I am and what I want and won't be bamboozled (at least not by the same thing)...

Stbxh got me fresh off the turnip truck and through all this I am literally becoming a different person. 
I have been severely manipulated over the years and now I know a lot more about myself as well...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soveryalone

hey , my update , my EX emailed me today .. She wants to be friends now blah blah she is soooooo sorry  hope you are doing well


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## darklilly23

Soveryalone said:


> hey , my update , my EX emailed me today .. She wants to be friends now blah blah she is soooooo sorry  hope you are doing well


Hey, yah that all I hear now is blah , blah, B$, blah. but I think that is a good place to be 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The best revenge is to go out and live an AMAZING life. And let him see it.


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## RyanBingham

turnera said:


> The best revenge is to go out and live an AMAZING life. And let him see it.


Or live an amazing life for yourself... But do it for yourself and if he gets wind of it, that's just icing.


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## turnera

Yeah, that's what I meant, lol. Do NOT GAL just so he can see. But the revenge part, the sweet part, is him seeing. Of course, you'll be having such an amazing life and loving it that you'll no longer CARE what he thinks cos he'll just be an old memory, a learning curve, before your REAL life.


----------



## alte Dame

I read many threads here, DL, and your WH was so far out of the norm in his way of thinking that I suspect that it will be a pleasant surprise to be discovering normal, healthy people. He has had you very twisted up.

All of the cliche's are right - you deserve good things, the best revenge is living well, happiness is what you make it, life is short, so live it well....All of these things will be true for you, I predict.

Where I come from, your WH would have been called a major putz. You will find a man who is worthy of you now.


----------



## PamJ

Hi, Darklily, I was just wondering how you were doing. Everyone is right, and I say it all the time about the best revenge is a life well lived. You may not see that they are noticing, but they are, and, either way, it doesn't matter as you will be happy. A win-win.

I forget where you were in the D process, ongoing?


----------



## darklilly23

Doing ok, the papers can be final whenever stbxh wants to take them to the court.
I am fine with what ever because I have been so busy the papers are the last thing on my mine... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Mind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Glad to get the update, Lilly. 
See? Told ya so!!! 

*neener neener*

Life can be and IS good!


----------



## darklilly23

Need support tonight, stbxh left all his old anniversary cards from me, he asked that I not do that with his gifts because it would be hurtful.
So I did not, I want so bad to tell him what a$$hat he is for trying to hurt me even more.

That's what he wants right.. To get a reaction out of me...
It would be our anniversary at the end of this month and he is leaving to go live with his girlfriend.
Breath.... Ok... Music.... Different thoughts...
:/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Ah,, tell him to go to hell. He's an asshat and he deserves an asshat's attention - nothing.


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## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Ah,, tell him to go to hell. He's an asshat and he deserves an asshat's attention - nothing.


 thanks for this, just what I needed...
Advice from the best selling book "So you want to lose your a$$hat?"


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PamJ

<<That's what he wants right.. To get a reaction out of me...>> 

Of course that is what he wanted, otherwise why even bring that up?
and then tell you not to do the same? Who DOES that? Just an a$$hat, that's who. He's someone else's problem now.


----------



## weightlifter

Wow. 

Did you post his cheating butt on cheaterville? and hers?

I must be part Klingon cause revenge...


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so update, a$$hat has moved out to live with ow, he left before the papers were finalized and said "I will have to fly back to go to the court date"

So now he is living with ow and he says he is too broke to come back for the court date. I said get the money from ow , or your friends and other relatives.
Or I will gather the funds for you.

He Sure as h3ll could afford the ticket out there to bonk her... In what would have been the make up vacation because I could not go to his reunion for fear if ruining it for him, gerr...

And he is blaming me telling me I put him through hell by leaving him.
I said ok you stop saying I left you and I will stop saying you bonked someone you said you would never have feelings for or respect
And moved to another state to go live with her... Deal?

Sigh, sorry venting, just want this over with.

Oh yeah he also said " maybe we should have just skipped on this whole divorce thing, I never wanted it, ever"
He said he still dreams about me and he keeps asking me why I left?!?
Oh mg, it was so hard not to say, maybe you should have skipped in the whole lets hide the pickle game with ow"
If you never wanted a divorce!!! This $hit makes me sooo crazy!!! 


So if a$$ hat drags his feet in another state can I force the divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

I am pretty darn sure you can file and it has to be in the last state you lived together in.... as long as it is within x time of separating. IE dont let him establish long residency.

YMMV but I read that somewhere

Sorry for the PA of the husband (NOT EA per title)

Some states have LOOOOONNNNGGGG Divorce processes.


----------



## Nucking Futs

darklilly23 said:


> Ok so update, a$$hat has moved out to live with ow, he left before the papers were finalized and said "I will have to fly back to go to the court date"
> 
> So now he is living with ow and he says he is too broke to come back for the court date. I said get the money from ow , or your friends and other relatives.
> Or I will gather the funds for you.


If I'm understanding this properly, the divorce has been filed already but he's saying he doesn't have the money to make it to the court date? How is this your problem? You go, and if the judge asks you why he's not there you tell him the truth. No judge is going to have a problem with you over him not showing up as long as you didn't do anything to cause him to not show up. 

Was he served the notice of the court date or did you give it to him? If the latter, did he sign for it?


----------



## alte Dame

You are going to be for OW what she has been for you all these years - the woman he won't let go of. She has been able to view herself as the soulmate that he couldn't be with because he was married to you. Now the tables will be turned because he will present it to her that way, i.e., that you are the soulmate that he can't excise from his life.

This will all be in his fevered imagination, DL, if you really let him go. The divorce laws should be clear on what to do. If you let him go and move on, he won't be able to have his ego stroked anymore by being wanted for years by two women.

He really seems to have a colossal ego. I would stick a pin in it.


----------



## arbitrator

*The primordial question is not whether to seek the shallow-minded approval of one's spouse about the mere existence of this illicit relationship, simply by saying that this OP is only an "old flame" or "just friends;" but much rather "the why" of ~ if you, indeed, need to have that questionable friendship, then what exactly do you need a wife for? To cake eat?

Any way you choose to paint it, it's all cheating in my book!*


----------



## turnera

Just tell the judge he's too cheap a bastard to show up, and you want to be free.


----------



## darklilly23

Thanks guys, I hate to admit it but he starts saying crazy stuff like I start doubting myself, which all this stuff would sound crazy if it was happing to someone else.

"You left, and I fell for your little game"
"You wanted this all along"
"I was good to you you won't find a more faithful husband"
"You made your own hell"
" I was only trying to help out a friend in pain, that should have meant something to you instead of throwing our marriage away over it"

When I said I would not date until the divorce was final he said we are divorced and I said thirst are my standards and I am holding to them.
To which he said

"Cute coming from the person that did the leaving"

This is the most contact I have had with him in a long time , I just wanted to make sure he was going to come back and finalize it.

Help me with my sanity if you guys can, I feel like he is delusional, blaming me acting if I "left him or betrayed him by not letting him eat cake.
If he would have cut ties with ow an in the end quickly turned it into a PA before the divorce was over I would still be trying to work on the marriage.

It's hard not to become delusional myself, when someone looks straight at you so to speak and says "the sky is green and I am mad at you for making me hide the pickle with the OW, its all your fault you have ruined my life"

Please help bring me back to realty...
Is this kind of mind @&$? Normal with infidelity?

Thanks kind TAMers...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Why would you believe an ******* like him?


----------



## darklilly23

turnera said:


> Why would you believe an ******* like him?


 that's exactly what my shrink says lol...

I think I have been gaslit for so long, I think the sky is green...

My shrink said it will take a while to " get the a$$hat out"
Basically deprograming.,,,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rugs

Any questions or self doubt, read this whole thread again.


----------



## darklilly23

Rugs said:


> Any questions or self doubt, read this whole thread again.


Good point! 
I guess the truth is out there...
On rather sitting in my own thread!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doubletrouble

He's a mindfvcker to be sure. Don't doubt what you've konwn all along. Look at him with detachment. His words have no power here, his truth is not valid, and you have seen it/lived with it first hand. 

Cheaters always try to re-write history. They do it for many reasons, the ulterior one, in my opinion, is to make themselves feel better about themselves, and their crappy decisions. You took more than you should ever have had to take, and he's trying to toss it on you. Hold up a mirror; he needs help seeing himself. Not that it's YOUR taks to do so, but when he points energy at you, hold up that mirror.

Hold fast, be true to yourself.


----------



## darklilly23

Ok so in dealing with stbxh trying to get divorce to go through I learned a few bits of info that make me

1. Ow is still married and talks to her stbx on a weekly
( this is disturbing my stbx)

2. When OW and OWH got married my stbxh helped them move into there new home
(Right after OW and my stbxh had slept togeather while she was engaged not telling OWH)
Now my stbxh is having to help OW and OWH move out if the house that they are selling!

3.my stbxh, OW and OWH all get to spend Turkey day together in one sick bundle [email protected]@w.

My stbex said it was Karma, then the next day sent me a letter of word salad 
Somehow blaming me for his life being ruined?
Bed sleep in much?

Just wanted to state that the scales take care of themselfs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doubletrouble

Proof's in the pudding. My how quickly things turn for those who live a tapestry of lies. 

I'm happy for you. I laugh at them with you.


----------



## lifeistooshort

"Cute coming from the person doing the leaving".
"Rich, coming from the married man that was f!cking his gf". 
Seriously, you don't really get manipulated with that? Please say no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

You guys are awesome, and very high on my list of things I am thankful for!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

lifeistooshort said:


> "Cute coming from the person doing the leaving".
> "Rich, coming from the married man that was f!cking his gf".
> Seriously, you don't really get manipulated with that? Please say no.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, not anymore, but in the past yes, it's been kind of like being married to a cult leader.
A lot of isolation, propaganda and brainwashing lol...

The scary thing is how long I have fallen for it.

I had a dream the other night where I was talking to someone about how I will never find a man who is better than he was to me.
And the person in my dream said "I wonder what your basis for comparison is?" 
(I have only been with stbx, did not have many good role models, not many friends)

Time to find some new role models, and a better basis for comparison) 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

I always recommend that people don't marry before around 25, and never before dating more than one person, and hopefully more than just a couple.


----------



## missthelove2013

everything is conjecture...other than one statement Ive read on this thread a few times and its the statment that imo matters the most

"he matters more to her than you do"

everything else imo is just conjecture and details, guessing...that one statement is enough to make your decision...at least if it were me, that is


----------



## darklilly23

Hey guys, I am feeling very lonely and lost and frankly kind of panicky, I have been have been hiding myself in a bunch of things to improve my self, 
But at the end of the day I am finding feeling burnt out, and extremely lonely. I am realizing that I went from being very isolated as a child to getting engaged and then married to stbxh,
I had no close friendships before him and now I am really feeling the gap.

I have some new friends and my family but I feel very alone, like no one really understands me the way stbx did,
When I was young I had no idea how lonely I was, deep down I know after all that's happened stbxh is not even the person I thought he was.
So I am standing here feeling very lost and alone, the fact that stbx so easily left me for his new old flame does not make anything better either.

Any advice would be much welcomed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## darklilly23

Do you guys still want me to post my full story?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Give them some time, they will post. the weekend between christmas and new years is a very busy one for most people.

The holidays are some of the roughest times to be going through what you are right now. I wish I had some thing to say that would help you right now, but the feeling of loneliness is go to take a while to pass.

Getting out and meeting people, new and current friends can help. I suggest going to places that you already like going to, or have always wanted to, but haven't yet.

I use to love going to a local armory museum(ancient armor and weaponry). I could spend hours in that place and not think about anything else. Sometimes I would meet and talk with new people. About the museum and then many times, other topics.

Visit places that will make you feel better for just being their. And you never know who you'll meet...


----------



## Differentguy

I'm sorry that you are sad and lonely. I think we had the opposite problem. My extended family just left this morning. I have been having to pretend everything is fine. I was ready for them to leave so I could go back to wallowing in anger and bitterness. I think something is wrong with me.

I'm gonna read some of your other posts. I don't have any good advice, but please know you aren't alone. If TAM has done anything, it let me know I'm not alone and people care.


----------



## weightlifter

You have holiday-itis. Valentines day is going to be rough too.

A timeline would be helpful.

If you are sure on D. Honestly have a fling that covers V day. Just dont let yourself get too attached, but im thinking (sorry to be crude but i am anything but subtle) a nice 2 month fling will do you (literally) some good.

Reason: unusual for a female but i am seeing as much ego bruising as heart breaking. Understand they are different things though they hurtsimilarly.

When is d final?

When did you find out it was a full PA?

Yep timeline.


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## darklilly23

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Give them some time, they will post. the weekend between christmas and new years is a very busy one for most people.
> 
> The holidays are some of the roughest times to be going through what you are right now. I wish I had some thing to say that would help you right now, but the feeling of loneliness is go to take a while to pass.
> 
> Getting out and meeting people, new and current friends can help. I suggest going to places that you already like going to, or have always wanted to, but haven't yet.
> 
> I use to love going to a local armory museum(ancient armor and weaponry). I could spend hours in that place and not think about anything else. Sometimes I would meet and talk with new people. About the museum and then many times, other topics.
> 
> Visit places that will make you feel better for just being their. And you never know who you'll meet...


Hey thanks ground, I guess you can see my desperation, I think part of the problem I am having is I have been drowning my self in trying to change my life for the better, but I am really over doing It wanting to see a change, but nothing is changing yet. And I am burning out needing rest and reflection but whenever I stop to rest its like the world and all my fears and lonlyness comes caving in on me. It's hard to find a balance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

I think that we want so much to have closeness and comfort from good friends and family that we can often feel lonely if 'all' we have is contact with acquaintances and casual friends. In my own life, I've come to value those 'less close' relationships. I have found that there are many, many kind and well-meaning people in the world who are happy to brighten my day, even if it's just for a moment. The neighbors who stop and chat, the barista who knows me, my fabulous hairdresser who always makes me smile. And, of course, the people who are truly more like friends, but don't really count as deep, longstanding friendships - the nice, funny people at work that I see every day, etc.

I suppose what I am saying is that we can mourn the loss of deep ties to the detriment of recognition of the everyday effort that those around us make to make our days a bit more livable and less lonely. For me, I redefined the word 'lonely' at some point and suddenly felt much less so.


----------



## darklilly23

Any advice for the intense hate I feel for stbxh? 

It's almost like if I don't get to see the karma bus hit him and ow soon I will explode!
I know that life can be unfair sometimes but I want to see him get his own given back to him
That it is literally kind of physically painful...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

The karma bus may or may not come along.


----------



## darklilly23

Openminded said:


> The karma bus may or may not come along.
> 
> I felt the same way about my ex-husband (who remarried the moment the decree was signed -- but not to his affair partner). I can tell you from experience that getting rid of that hatred by redirecting your thoughts back to improving your life is the best thing you can do. The hatred I felt for my former husband harmed no one but myself. I'm glad it's gone.


Thanks for this 

I guess I should be glad that a man capable of betraying me is gone from my life,
I still find it hard to understand how the man I thought I knew could do something that
I never thought he could...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

I totally understand. I don't think of us ever imagined our spouse would cheat. I absolutely didn't. I was convinced it would never happen to me. But it did and I got out (after the second time) and now I'm happy. You will be too.


----------



## darklilly23

Openminded said:


> I totally understand. I don't think of us ever imagined our spouse would cheat. I absolutely didn't. I was convinced it would never happen to me. But it did and I got out (after the second time) and now I'm happy. You will be too.


Thanks for this! It's good to hear from you on the other side!

I think when my life changes for the better, I wount have time to think about it.
And I will have no reason to be bitter, things just kind of [email protected] right now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soveryalone

No disrespect to this forum, but I found I started to really come out of my dark place when I stopped coming here. I honestly think this forum is great for someone for a week or two after dealing with a breakup/divorce/infidelity but any longer than that is counterproductive, I stayed wayyyy too long and got tired of making myself sick reading stories similar to my own. I realize now I was just punishing myself, and lets be real, with the exception of a very small %% of people who come here , is this forum really about support, or is about telling our stories over and over and over again until someone says the magic words that make it all rite? the truth is nothing anyone can say even your ex husband will really matter, you and you alone are on this journey , and you have experienced all the negative emotions on your own, whether he caused them or not, you are ultimately responsible for how you react. 
sorry to be so direct, but I found that when I stopped coming here , writing and reading I was able to handle my own **** on my own, and I am much happier now, I am much more secure and certainly much stronger a person. I wish my Ex nothing but sincere happiness for life, I thought her and I would be together for life, it didn't work, she is better off with someone else, it happens, I have moved the f ck on and haven't looked back once ( ok maybe once or twice on Christmas)  and BTW I feel completely lost and alone as well, and was more than willing to be a true and sincere friend to you or whomever else , but sometimes people misunderstand things I say, take them the wrong way and perhaps that's why I am so alone, I still really haven't a clue how to speak to people, I was totally isolated from everyone cept my Ex for 12 long years, so I hear ya, just focus on the New Year around the bend, force yourself to prepare for your future, force your thoughts on wonderful things, create a little saying for yourself ( yes its corny but it works) and know this , this too shall pass and trust me the grass is much greener on the other side, best wishes to you


----------



## doubletrouble

Lilly, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this phase. But I think it is a phase, and it will pass. As someone already said, the holidays are really hard. Having emotional pain at the same time when people all around you are talking about family, get-togethers, romance, etc it reminds you that you don't have that. Today. 

But tomorrow is all yours. You can make it into whatever you want. Sure, you have to work, go to the store and get groceries, gas up the car, stuff like that. Routines. Routines can be soothing... But you can choose other things with your personal time that are fulfilling. Working out is always good, because not only does it add years to your life, it makes your body feel better, gives you a better body image, and respects your temple. 

One thing I did when I was alone was sign up for meetup.com. I play music, and was in a new town where I didn't know any musicians. I met and played with many after that, and it was great fun. I also signed up for a motorcycle group, which was also good fun. We'd do tours and go places as a group, stop for food along the way, stop at scenic overlooks (in a mountainous area here in the northwest), and so on. Pick your flavor; there's an interest group there for what you're into. Or start your own. 

It's hard to pull your boots out of the mud when you stand in one place too long. You feel stuck, and like you can't move. But if you ease into it, just pulling one foot, then the other, you will find it gets easier with each effort. And pretty soon you're off and running again. 

Life is long. Make it all yours.


----------



## darklilly23

Double, thanks, I actually am a member of meetup, 

I am having no problems with staying busy, I am burning out.
It's just those times when I stop to catch my breath and reflect 
That it hits me, 

When you were alone, did you have the conundrum of burning out
Keeping busy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Reflecting is good for you. Helps with growth. Even if it 'feels' bad.


----------



## doubletrouble

There are times in my current life, long after Dday and still with fWW, that I reflect. How would my life be had (a) she not cheated, or (b) I never entered into an intimate relationship with her, or (c) I never divorced my last (cheating) wife? So sure, you reflect and think and wonder. But that is not the end process. The end process is to set yourself up to not be in those situations any more. Naturally, you can't control what someone will do. Your X cheated, and that was an intenable boundary for you. Completely understandable. But the end process, after all that thinking, is how to make yourSELF a more well-rounded adult. 

It's hard to not become angry and bitter. And that's OK for a while. It's part of greiving. But to become an angry and bitter person, for that to become part of your personality, the way I see it in my situation, OM wins. He already won something from fWW, but I'm damned if he's ever going to win something of ME. That's part of my end process in thinking about stuff. And it's hard not to obssess sometimes. What was so bad about me? Why was my WS compelled to be this way? Why was my heart not a factor in all this? Why was THAT better than THIS? We can beat ourselves up all the time, with the time we have on our hands, and in our weak moments where all we really want to do is plop down in an easy chair and zone out on TV. You can't do that, can you? That's when it's time to pick up the phone and call a friend, a relative, someone you know that you haven't talked to in a long time -- some kind of human interaction and conversation. It's what we all need. It doesn't have to be an emotional connection, just a connection. 

When I was living alone, I drank too much for a while. I knew it while I was doing it, but I didn't care. I would put on my headphones and play guitar along with some music. Or just listen to music. I would write songs, learn new things, fill my mind with music. Then I started studying diet, biological mechanisms for gaining lean body mass and losing fat. Exercising. Eating right. How to control my own mind. It was fascinating stuff. I turned my body and mind into a science project. I got way down into the details, taking notes, recording numbers, projecting where I should be at a certain date with the effort I was putting in. It wasn't as obsessive as all that sounds; it was a way to keep me busy on improving ME. That was something nobody could take away from me. I had full control over that. And it turned out great! 

You have to have times when you're down. It's a natural part of living. But you have to have the discipline to not let that become who you are. Be better than that. Be better than you were. Be better when the right person comes into your life and wants to be with you. Your X will not recognize you, and will rue the day he thought that other b!tch was worth it. She isn't. You need to know that.


----------



## darklilly23

Hey guys so the saga ends, he texted me today with "It's finished"
Cried a bit.

It's weird all the hard work we put into the marriage, now I feel like I am back at square one again.
I know that's not true, just with my ex goes a lot of dreams.

So on to chapter Two, anybody want to sign my yearbook?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clay2013

I am really sorry you went through all that. I am glad that your life is getting a chance to start over. Our x's are not worth another minute of our time. There are lots of great men out there that want a woman with morals and great values. I have read your whole thread and I think you really expressed those things well through it. 

I think you handled things well. You should should be proud of yourself. Today is a new day for you. I would go make your life better and not look back. 

I really want to thank you again for sharing your story. It really helped me identify with things I went through in my past. It is really good to know there are decent women out there.

Clay


----------



## Jellybeans

So did you guys divorce?

I remember your thread. In the beginning you were concerned about their friendship which he kept telling you nothing was up, then I skip the last pages and he as moved in with her.

Dust yourself off, lady. And move on with your head held high. You deserve better.


----------



## doubletrouble

I'm sorry too, DL. This has been a rocky trail for you to walk. And you've had to walk it because someone else put you there. 

You are a classy lady. You can hold your head high. 

When you heal, you will be stronger for this. Sounds trite to say it, but it's true. I wish the very best for you.


----------



## darklilly23

Yep Jellybeans,

He is the one who petitioned, and he had to come back to our state(grumbling wanting me to take care of it) to finish the divorce.
He is still living with OW and her divorce has not gone through yet.
Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a bussiness together, and my Ex hates it, makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX. Lol.

Looking forward to forgetting the whole mess and moving on. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Philat

darklilly23 said:


> *she is sneaking around to see her STBX. Lol.*
> 
> Looking forward to forgetting the whole mess and moving on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Love this! Good luck, DL.


----------



## doubletrouble

darklilly23 said:


> Yep Jellybeans,
> 
> He is the one who petitioned, and he had to come back to our state(grumbling wanting me to take care of it) to finish the divorce.
> He is still living with *OW and her divorce has not gone through *yet.
> Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a bussiness together, and my Ex hates it, *makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX*. Lol.
> 
> Looking forward to forgetting the whole mess and moving on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


These things confirm and validate your reasons for ditching him. he's never going to be the honorable man you wanted him to be, hoped he would be, staked your heart on him being. So you're better off. Sometimes you may look wistfully at the past, but then think about this. His life is a train wreck. Do you really want to be the other train he keeps crashing into? Nope.


----------



## weightlifter

>Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a bussiness together, and my Ex hates it, makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX. Lol.<

What brand of tires are those tracks on your stbxh's back from the KARMA BUS!?

Btw how do you know she is still doinking her stbx?

Love it tho.

Once healed get the love you deserve.


----------



## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> >Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a bussiness together, and my Ex hates it, makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX. Lol.<
> 
> What brand of tires are those tracks on your stbxh's back from the KARMA BUS!?
> 
> Btw how do you know she is still doinking her stbx?
> 
> Awww don't know that she is bonking, yet, but she is emotionally sneaking around and we all know that always stays platonic lol...
> 
> Thanks for signing my yearbook


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23

doubletrouble said:


> These things confirm and validate your reasons for ditching him. he's never going to be the honorable man you wanted him to be, hoped he would be, staked your heart on him being. So you're better off. Sometimes you may look wistfully at the past, but then think about this. His life is a train wreck. Do you really want to be the other train he keeps crashing into? Nope.


I must admit Divorce day was much harder than I thought It would be, brought up a bunch of emotion that I did not expect.
But thankfully all I have to do is come here and reread my thread when I have doubts.

The facts and the wonderful advice I have gotten here at TAM always sobers me up from leftover fog 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

Yeah it's hard, no matter the reasons. But it's necessary. Like cutting a gangrenous limb.


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## weightlifter

You know DT. Comparing her stbx to gangrene is not fair.

To the gangrene.


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## darklilly23

OMG, So it begins, EX is not even out of town from cutting the head of our dead marriage And I get a text about mutual friend in the hospital, then he said he misses me and that he wishes he I was still his wife! 

How "all this is insane" and he never wanted it.
(I don't understand how he can still see himself as a victim! he is the one who inserted tab A into slot B and just got done ending it at the courthouse!" 

which is really hard to take right now because of the unexpected emotions that the divorce brought up in me.

I am ashamed to admit this but a part of me still feels love for a part of him, and I feel like this is "all wrong and should never should have happened."

Please tell me this is normal to have these feelings and I am not being overly "confused"

MY friends and counselor are sitting ready poised to kick me in the face if I fall for his "confession of love" 

Signed,

Confused and mind F****d...


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## Acabado

Let me join to friends and counselor.
What he's fishing for is ego kibbles, nothing more.
Don't you realize it's exactly the line of bullcrap he has been selling OW since before you even met? Only you are now the other woman... if you allow yourself to be.
Ego Kibbles
Read a little this blog, the articles listed on the right. They are pure gold.


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## weightlifter

DL23 you quoted me then never answered. LOL


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## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> DL23 you quoted me then never answered. LOL


 lol Sorry Weightlifter,

that's how out of it I am ... lol


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## MattMatt

darklilly23 said:


> OMG, So it begins, EX is not even out of town from cutting the head of our dead marriage And I get a text about mutual friend in the hospital, then he said he misses me and that he wishes he I was still his wife!
> 
> How "all this is insane" and he never wanted it.
> (I don't understand how he can still see himself as a victim! he is the one who inserted tab A into slot B and just got done ending it at the courthouse!"
> 
> which is really hard to take right now because of the unexpected emotions that the divorce brought up in me.
> 
> I am ashamed to admit this but a part of me still feels love for a part of him, and I feel like this is "all wrong and should never should have happened."
> 
> Please tell me this is normal to have these feelings and I am not being overly "confused"
> 
> MY friends and counselor are sitting ready poised to kick me in the face if I fall for his "confession of love"
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Confused and mind F****d...


Of course it is normal. 

Look at it this way. If you love cheese but know that one taste would kill you, you would still love cheese, but you'd never eat it again.

Same with your husband. You may still love him but you know he would be deadly for you.


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## weightlifter

darklilly23 said:


> lol Sorry Weightlifter,
> 
> that's how out of it I am ... lol


#tapping foot waiting for answer.


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## darklilly23

weightlifter said:


> >Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a bussiness together, and my Ex hates it, makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX. Lol.<
> 
> What brand of tires are those tracks on your stbxh's back from the KARMA BUS!?
> 
> Btw how do you know she is still doinking her stbx?
> 
> Love it tho.
> 
> Once healed get the love you deserve.


don't know if it is full on twister, yet but I do know that she "spent Christmas with him" but My EX chooses to trust her unlike me who destroyed our marriage through my unfounded jealousy:rofl: 
hopefully the tires are "Good year"


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## BWBill

_OMG, So it begins, EX is not even out of town from cutting the head of our dead marriage And I get a text about mutual friend in the hospital, then he said he misses me and that he wishes he I was still his wife! _

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. He romanticized his relationship with the OW and now he's starting to do the same for yours. 

Don't do the same thing. You do not want to be in the same pasture with this guy. 


_(I don't understand how he can still see himself as a victim! he is the one who inserted tab A into slot B and just got done ending it at the courthouse!" _

Agreed. He's unstable. Move on.


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## alte Dame

He loooved playing the two of you off of one another. He was a man with two women on the hook! How could life get any better?

Now you're divorced, so he wants to reel you back in. Definitely ego kibbles, as Acabado says.

If you want his torture to stop, you have to start ignoring him.


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## darklilly23

Ego Kibbles. Truth.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

darklilly23 said:


> Ego Kibbles. Truth.


OR, a case of the grass ain't greener on the other side of the fence...

He may be getting tired of the OW seeing her stbxh all the time. 'Cause if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you...

Isn't that a nice thought...


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## poida

41 pages DL!
Wow, I still have a long road ahead.


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## 86857

> ​don't know if it is full on twister, yet but I do know that she "*spent Christmas with him"* but My EX chooses to trust her unlike me who destroyed our marriage through my unfounded jealousy​.​





> ​He is still living with OW and her divorce has not gone through yet.
> *Though she is still sees her stbxh on a weekly , they have a business together, and my Ex hates it, makes him very jealous, she is sneaking around to see her STBX.* Lol.





> OMG, So it begins, EX is not even out of town from cutting the head of our dead marriage And I get a text about mutual friend in the hospital, then *he said he misses me and that he wishes he I was still his wife!*
> How "all this is insane" and he never wanted it.


I'm just lovin it DL.  



> Please tell me this is normal to have these feelings and I am not being overly "confused".


Yep it's completely normal. Ask any BS on here. But it will get better as the months go by. Would you keep dating him if he was your bf and he insisted on contact with his ex? Doubt it!

Seems to me it would be great if you have NC with him. . . none! Is that possible? You could block him on your phone or even get a new number. 

Gee - the OW that he was desperately wanting to keep in contact with doesn't seem so shiny and new any more. And her contact with her ex-H is very odd - I'd be suspicious. 

Guess what DL, now it's HIS turn. He has 3 people in his relationship. Like I say, I'm lovin it! 

You just keep on walking and post on TAM if you feel down. There are always so many kind posters on here for support.


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## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> OMG, So it begins, EX is not even out of town from cutting the head of our dead marriage And I get a text about mutual friend in the hospital, then he said he misses me and that he wishes he I was still his wife!
> 
> How "all this is insane" and he never wanted it.


Reality is just starting to set in for him.


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## Philat

darklilly23 said:


> How "all this is insane" and he never wanted it. (I don't understand how he can still see himself as a victim! he is the one who inserted tab A into slot B and just got done ending it at the courthouse!"
> 
> *Remind him and yourself that he sent you a text saying "it's finished."*
> 
> which is really hard to take right now because of the unexpected emotions that the divorce brought up in me.
> 
> I am ashamed to admit this but a part of me still feels love for a part of him, and I feel like this is "all wrong and should never should have happened."
> 
> *Of course it should never have happened, because he should never have cheated.*
> 
> Please tell me this is normal to have these feelings and I am not being overly "confused"
> 
> MY friends and counselor are sitting ready poised to kick me in the face if I fall for his "confession of love"
> 
> *TAM won't kick you in the face but will gently remonstrate if you fall for it. Which you won't because you are now too smart for that.*
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Confused and mind F****d...


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## weightlifter

darklilly23 said:


> don't know if it is full on twister, yet but I do know that she "spent Christmas with him" but My EX chooses to trust her unlike me who destroyed our marriage through my unfounded jealousy:rofl:
> hopefully the tires are "Good year"


I was hoping they were the kind of tires motor cycles use to race on ice.

Can you say completely perforated? I knew you could.


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## doubletrouble

DL don't let him in because you miss what he was. He's not that any more, and that's why he lives in another date, and is sleeping full time with another woman. 

The kibbles are not worth it, and you are worth so much more. he doesn't love you, and has proven that in the most serious way. So don't think he's turned over a new leaf or is all "good" now. He's not. He wants validation from you that he's a stud. Let him get that sh!t elsewhere. 

You've done more than you needed to to give him chances to make this work. It wasn't your first choice. But you need to get him out and take control of your life. 

Starting over is hard, but it's also exciting.


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## darklilly23

Hi all,

I have been watching TAM for a while, wanting to say hi, but I lost my password.

I have been thinking about making a new user name etc , when a ghost got into my mail box! Yikes! 

Last time I texted my ex he told me off and I pretty much said good buy for the last time.

So get this, I wake up this morning with a email telling me how the Ex will never get married again and as a promise to me he got this big tattoo of something that had meaning to me up and down his spine.

I don't know, it did not really hurt getting the letter, just my mind is kind of blown and I don't really know what to make of it. MIND BLOWN.

What does it mean when a guy gets a tattoo like that, I am not going to spend to much time trying to figure it out.
I did that for a year.

Just, I don't have words, just my mind is blown...


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## turnera

It means he's still trying to manipulate you.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

turnera said:


> It means he's still trying to manipulate you.


I agree. Just another attempt to gain some control over her emotionally.

Tell him to save his front side. He can use it for his next ex.


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## Philat

"Up and down his spine"? That actually sounds creepy.


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## darklilly23

Yeah, I must admit, its hard not to feel like this is a kind of pick me dance insurance or something...

Kind of confusing, but I think I am keeping a healthy distance and perspective on the whole thing.

Mind still blown though..


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## PamJ

He's trying to keep you waiting in the wings, just in case. So obvious it's pathetic.


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## doubletrouble

Lilly, is it possible for you to just completely cut contact with this man? It sounds like all he does is mess with your head (mind=blown). 

This isn't a healthy relationship in any way, and will only continue to frazzle your nerves.


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## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> So get this, I wake up this morning with a email telling me how the Ex will never get married again and as a promise to me he got this big tattoo of something that had meaning to me up and down his spine.
> 
> What does it mean when a guy gets a tattoo like that


Methinks that grass was NOT greener on the other side.

Did you respond?

Did you file divorce already (I can't remember). Is he still with her?


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## darklilly23

I did respond, I was about to block him though. I told him he has a lot of growing to do if he wishes to speak to me.

We are divorced now.

I am not going to lie, a part of me still lives him. I guess I really need to date seeing as how I have only ever had one man to compare to, its still just very hard, I want my life the way I thought It was.


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## darklilly23

Yes he is still with her, he only is working one day a week so he says he feel like a kept man.

I am sure she paid for the tattoo, I am sure he told her is was to symbolize the death of our marriage , his mother called me and told me that he did not tell her "the whole meaning of the tattoo"

Basically that he would not marry her and was hoping that we could get ack together one day.

I feel like if he really wanted to be a man and show his love to me he would tell OW what the tattoo meant, pack his things and go live in a shelter.


Like my tattoo artist friend said , "if the tattoo doesn't have your name on it he could tell anyone anything, without your name it means nothing." 

Lol


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## turnera

what a chump.

Better off without him.


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## Soveryalone

Hey Darklilly  You still dealing with the aftermath of this ? I know it cant be easy, I know its so very hard to fully let go because there is part of you and part of him that will always love one another. I think in our 20's and 30's we evolve over time into our true selves , sometimes we realize who we once were isn't at all who we are today. I think many times people in relationships evolve at different rates or go in different directions which can be confusing. I hope you are well, if I can offer any advice to you that has helped me, is to allow someone get close to you again, allow someone to get so close to you its scary, it is really frightening at first but as time goes on and the trust builds , you will begin to see things through new eyes. Letting a new love in, will help heal your old wounds, when the time is right of course


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## doubletrouble

Lilly it's been just a little over a year since you first posted about this, and less than that for your divorce to go through. You're doing fine. There's no timeline for healing, but it's something you should work on a little bit now and then. 

The man isn't going to change. He's attached himself to you because he can't commit to the new woman. He couldn't attach to you because of the old flame. 

This problem is his, not yours. You don't own it. 

He's not likely to change in a year, two years, five. He may change when he hits 50, but it will be far, far too late for you by then.


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## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Yes he is still with her, he only is working one day a week so he says he feel like a kept man.


He sounds like a real winner.
Why does he only work once a week?


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## darklilly23

Thanks to everyone,

It's nice to visit with you all again. 

@Double 
Thanks for that, a lot if people are pushing me to date including my IC
but frankly I am still healing, so its nice when people tell me to take my time.

@Jelly 

He says he can't find any work because the state that he moved to has a bad economy.

That and he enjoys living in never never land. It's a nice place where he can get ego kibbles for pretending he is something he is not. (He has a youtube show now where he is trying to pass himself off as a guru or something)
I have not seen it and plan on keeping it that way.


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## darklilly23

Hey all,

So I have been moving on with my life when I get a text from My EXH "I am back in town, I love you and could we talk sometime?"

I say I will not meet in person or phone that he may only email what ever it is that he has to say.

Then I get a email from the OW telling me that "she is willing to talk to me If I want"

WTH?!?

so I email My EXH saying what OW said and he was trying to defend her?!?

WTH?!? he "left her to come court me but he is defending her to me?

and what is with the whole OW reaching out thing? what does all this mean?


Thanks guys:lol::scratchhead:


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## Nucking Futs

darklilly23 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I have been moving on with my life when I get a text from My EXH "I am back in town, I love you and could we talk sometime?"
> 
> I say I will not meet in person or phone that he may only email what ever it is that he has to say.
> 
> Then I get a email from the OW telling me that "she is willing to talk to me If I want"
> 
> WTH?!?
> 
> so I email My EXH saying what OW said and he was trying to defend her?!?
> 
> WTH?!? he "left her to come court me but he is defending her to me?
> 
> and what is with the whole OW reaching out thing? what does all this mean?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys:lol::scratchhead:


My reply to OW would be short and sweet: "Go back to hell."


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## Philat

darklilly23 said:


> and what is with the whole OW reaching out thing? what does all this mean?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys:lol::scratchhead:


It means you win. Ignore her; treat him like a stranger you met once in a bad dream.


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## The Middleman

darklilly23 said:


> and what is with the whole OW reaching out thing? what does all this mean?
> 
> Thanks guys:lol::scratchhead:


Tell them both to go f**k themselves.


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## darklilly23

I see you playing your mind games. I'll raise you one "I don't give a flying ****". | Farewell Ecard


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## Soveryalone

why in the hell are you even still allowing this person to contact you ????? I realize he was your first love , your first everything and i know you still have feelings for him whether you admit it or not, but the fact is he did this once, and if you were to try again with him he will do it again , sorry to say this , but you need to stop ALL contact with him, slam that door closed , and begin your new life this instant... sorry to be so direct but i care about you... and i want you happy ...


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## doubletrouble

Ignore OW, she is nothing in your life. As for the ex, if you say anything to him at all, it would be along the lines of, "I don't care what town you're in. There's no way I can or will let you back in my life."

You don't need to explain a thing to either of them. Unless you're a drama major, which you aren't. That chapter in the book of your life is CLOSED.

You started your post by saying you're moving on with your life. I'm really, really glad to hear this. It takes a while to heal, doesn't it. 

Keep moving on with your life. And keep the drama queens far, far away.


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## doubletrouble

PS it's free to change your cell phone number. I suggest doing that, so the ex can't text you any more. if you can change your email without it being too painful, I'd do that too. 

I did both of those things when I got divorced.


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## Q tip

** laughter **

So she made him get a tattoo. So now, he's got a tramp stamp. Is it her or him who wants the threesome.

Flush twice. It's a long way to the sewage plant...


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## Jellybeans

darklilly23 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I have been moving on with my life when I get a text from My EXH "I am back in town, I love you and could we talk sometime?"
> 
> I say I will not meet in person or phone that he may only email what ever it is that he has to say.
> 
> Then I get a email from the OW telling me that "she is willing to talk to me If I want"
> 
> WTH?!?
> 
> so I email My EXH saying what OW said and he was trying to defend her?!?


Who knows what the hell those two are up to. 

If you want to be a feather ruffler, you could forward the text he sent you saying I love you to her. and not write anything else. Lol. 

Or just don't respond to either of them.

It's very odd she is saying she is willing to talk to you. Don't like it one bit. They are super far up their own a$es.


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## turnera

Jellybeans said:


> If you want to be a feather ruffler, you could forward the text he sent you saying I love you to her. and not write anything else.


This! Do this!


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## soccermom2three

I was going to say the same thing. Take a screen shot of the text and send it back in the email to her. Just the screen shot, nothing else.


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## Jellybeans

Yeah and you could say "Did you want to meet up to discuss this?" LOL

Screenshot and email it back to her with the above. 

:rofl:


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## PamJ

darklilly23 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I have been moving on with my life when I get a text from My EXH "I am back in town, I love you and could we talk sometime?"
> 
> I say I will not meet in person or phone that he may only email what ever it is that he has to say.
> 
> Then I get a email from the OW telling me that "she is willing to talk to me If I want"
> 
> WTH?!?
> 
> so I email My EXH saying what OW said and he was trying to defend her?!?
> 
> WTH?!? he "left her to come court me but he is defending her to me?
> 
> and what is with the whole OW reaching out thing? what does all this mean?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys:lol::scratchhead:


Frankly, at this point, I would ignore her AND your Ex. If he had something important to talk about with finances or family or something he can email you. 

It sounds like SHE thinks something is still going on between you and the Ex and wants to get involved, which means HE has been talking about you. OR she just wants to be important herself. I would not give her that platform.

It might be tempting to engage to see what she wants, but, I think THAT is what she wants, to see you play the game. I wouldn't.


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## TRy

darklilly23 said:


> Yes he is still with her, he only is working one day a week so he says he feel like a kept man.


 The fact that he lives with her, and that she supports him, should end any doubt that the you were at all wrong in not feeling comfortable with their inappropriate relationship. Even close guy friends would not let your husband move in with them just to let them sponge off of them; if your husband lived with a guy friend he would never say that he was a "kept man".



darklilly23 said:


> Basically that he would not marry her and was hoping that we could get ack together one day.


 Now that the real world has moved into their relationship, the grass turns out not to be greener. 



darklilly23 said:


> I get a text from My EXH "I am back in town, I love you and could we talk sometime?"
> 
> I say I will not meet in person or phone that he may only email what ever it is that he has to say.
> 
> Then I get a email from the OW telling me that "she is willing to talk to me If I want"


 Now that she sees him as an unemployed loser, she wants to give him back and he knows it. Tell her that you will not take him back because you do not take returns after 30 days, or you can tell her that you have a you break it (the marriage) you keep it policy. :rofl:


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## doubletrouble

TRy said:


> Tell her that you will not take him back because you do not take returns after 30 days, or you can tell her that you have a you break it (the marriage) you keep it policy. :rofl:


Even with a receipt!

jk

I'd ignore her AND him for the next 95 years of your life.


----------

