# Know I'm being childish....but it bothers me anyway



## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

So I have the password to my wife's phone and occasionally I check texts just to stay vigilant. So tonight I check through and I find a text conversation between her and two of her female friends: 
Friend 1: So we may be moving in a few months but please don't tell anyone at work
Friend 2: Don't worry my lips are sealed.
Wife: Mine too. Only way I'd open mine is if I'm kissing George Clooney.....lol

Now I get that this is just light banter between friends and joking about hot movie stars etc but coming from someone who will barely open her lips when she is kissing me during our once a week sex this sort of struck a nerve with me. I feel foolish even letting it bother me and I can't say anything to her as she doesn't know I check her phone but I can't help the way I feel. Next time I try for an open mouth kiss with her and get turned down maybe I'll say "Sorry I'm not George".


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

SoxFan said:


> So I have the password to my wife's phone and occasionally I check texts just to stay vigilant. So tonight I check through and I find a text conversation between her and two of her female friends:
> Friend 1: So we may be moving in a few months but please don't tell anyone at work
> Friend 2: Don't worry my lips are sealed.
> Wife: Mine too. Only way I'd open mine is if I'm kissing George Clooney.....lol
> ...


If you said that, you might as well tell her you read her text messages.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Sox, what are you doing to rectify the situation?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. I have some friends who are CRAZY about certain rock/movie starts. Post posters around their house like HS idiots. Their husbands complain but do nothing else. I'd rip them down.

BUT...this was a private convo between female friends. I dunno. It would bug me, not saying it wouldn't...but...I dunno...You snooped, and this is innocent, seeing as it's GEORGE CLOONEY, not George So-and-So from the next office over.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Right. It's just like guys saying they'd love to sleep with (insert hot celeb name here). They have to say the name of a well-known celeb that others would find hot. Now, if she said George Burns.....


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## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

Mach: Not sure what you mean. What am I doing about the texts? or in general to get a little more of the response I need in the bedroom?

that_girl: yeah, I know it was a private innocent conversation between girlfriends and your absolutely right it's not like its someone who she is around at all, if it was I'd definitely call her on it. She has always swooned for Clooney but I guess somehow seeing it written out with her gfs just pissed me off a little.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You are really over reacting about her saying that. If you let yourself focus too much on it, it will only hurt you.

Now if you want your wife to be more receptive in the bedroom then work on that.

Tell us about the kinds of things you do with your wife during a normal week. How much time do you two spend together, just the two of you?


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## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You are really over reacting about her saying that. If you let yourself focus too much on it, it will only hurt you.
> 
> Now if you want your wife to be more receptive in the bedroom then work on that.
> 
> Tell us about the kinds of things you do with your wife during a normal week. How much time do you two spend together, just the two of you?


We both have pretty hectic jobs but we do have dinner together every night and Saturday's are our date nights. Dinner maybe some dancing then a nightcap at our favorite local bar. When the weather is good we will do a hike or a bike ride on Sundays.
and btw....I agree I'm overreacting, like I said it just struck a nerve with me.


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

Slam your **** in a drawer. Then you will have a real problem.

Move on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SoxFan said:


> We both have pretty hectic jobs but we do have dinner together every night and Saturday's are our date nights. Dinner maybe some dancing then a nightcap at our favorite local bar. When the weather is good we will do a hike or a bike ride on Sundays.
> and btw....I agree I'm overreacting, like I said it just struck a nerve with me.


Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"? I think that the book would help you with building the passion in your relationship.

For example a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you, to keep the passion and connection alive. It does not sound like you are getting that time.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SoxFan said:


> Mach: Not sure what you mean. What am I doing about the texts? or in general to get a little more of the response I need in the bedroom?


That part. Clooney is probably not a threat at this time, but 1X weekly is unsat.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your wife is a normal heterosexual female and this little banter is just female bonding. If something goes in a woman's brain, it usually comes out her mouth (or in a text message) around her closest friends. Have you ever seen a woman other than your wife that you found sexually attractive? One of the problems about digging is sometimes you dig up things you don't necessarily want. It's a blessing for everyone that my wife can't see everything that has ever passed through my mind.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Instead of checking her texts to find out what's on her mind, could you use that time to talk with her, cuddle with her, flirt with her? Turn on some music and dance around the house with her instead of snooping in her phone.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think you need to explore why that nerve is getting struck.

Have you said to her that you like kissing her? You don't have to make it a big deal or a negative conversation. Maybe there is something else there which needs to be discussed.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You're saying that your wife should find you sexier than George Clooney? Mega-rich, mega-handsome, movie star George Clooney? The same George Clooney that TV Guide ranked #1 on its 50 Sexiest Stars of All Time?

Does your wife have any severe mental handicaps that might help with that?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I find it a bit helpful to always remember I'm not the only guy on earth and my wife would have no trouble finding my suitable replacement. I have to court her a little every day so she doesn't have any reason to look very long at another guy.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was with an ex-bf. He worked at a tool shop for a number of years and one day I decided I was going to be awesome and swing by with lunch for him.

Well, this *jerk* he worked with told me to take the lunch back to my ex's workspace myself, and I had only seen this workspace 2 or 3 times over the years.

So I strutted back there all happy that I was going to make his day when I walked in and saw - what *used to be* all the photos he'd put up of he and I together, all the photos of me, had been taken down (and thrown away?!) And replaced by magazine clippings and photos of Britney Spears.

Yeah... That was a dagger alright, but I played it coo.

So I know how you feel about this innocent little comment that "shouldn't" bother you, but it does. We can analyze a hundred different ways but in the end, it's YOUR perception that is bothering you, and maybe 10% of what she actually said. 

I know it's difficult, but the best thing you can do is shrug it off as a comment meant to amuse her girlfriends and leave it at that. If you confront her in any way she will probably just become defensive, which will make you feel worse.

Your post suggests there is more going on, but I am not familiar with your history with her... It could very well be unresolved stuff from the past trying to disguise itself as a comment made by your wife... Just my thoughts. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I wouldn't make too much of the text. At least it was a movie star rather than some bland name that you'd never heard before. Then you'd have to worry.


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## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

I guess a bit of a key to why this may be bothering me can be found in a recent thread I posted in the Sex in Marraige section. It was titled
"Do I have to have this conversation again?". Basically it's always me initiating any physical affection. It's hard to be the one who has to continually does this
And then read texts like what I saw, even if it is all in innocence to amuse her girlfriends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't think that invalidating someone's feelings is helpful. Emotions are non-negotiable, even if they aren't what "should" or shouldn't be alarming. I do agree, however, that not much thought "should" be dedicated to this comment. It will only serve to hurt and perpetuate paranoia and insecurity... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SoxFan said:


> Friend 1: So we may be moving in a few months but please don't tell anyone at work
> Friend 2: Don't worry my lips are sealed.
> Wife: Mine too. *Only way I'd open mine is if I'm kissing George Clooney*.....lol
> 
> Now I get that this is just light banter between friends and joking about hot movie stars etc *but coming from someone who will barely open her lips when she is kissing me during our once a week sex this sort of struck a nerve with me*. I feel foolish even letting it bother me and I can't say anything to her as she doesn't know I check her phone but I can't help the way I feel. Next time I try for an open mouth kiss with her and get turned down maybe I'll say "Sorry I'm not George".


It is very obvious what is going on here.. the root... given your last thread in the Sex section you just mentioned.....IF your wife kissed you like she was MAD about you, IF YOU felt hotly desired , if she took it upon herself to initiate with some enthusiasm ....instead of a once a week lemon puckered lip session.... I can tell you.... this wouldn't bother you ... It makes sense it hurts/ jabs at you ..... The comment over a movie star is just a fragment, a reminder of the deeper issue. 

Personally I don't find George Clooney good looking in the least...but sure all of us women think some stars are very HOT ... Normal behavior, just means we have a pulse ...... 
 would be more my flavor....but ya know... NO MAN should be above our devotion & daily admiration over our husbands & what they bring to our lives...

IF our husbands feel *they* are paramount, irreplaceable in our hearts...expressing this....that we are their biggest fan, that we wouldn't trade them for the world....... after all...these are just "Looks".. they come & go, there is no emotional entanglement, no history, no treasured memories with those "Sexiest hunks"...

You've probably heard all the ideas of getting Books to help you win back the attraction to your wife...  Married Man's Sex life Primer  could be a starting point....just a thought.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

I'd ask myself why I felt the need to check her phone - that strikes me as insecurity / lack of trust, wherein lies the problem. I agree with Unbelievable, if you go looking for trouble (a bit like reading someone's diary), you may just find it. And George Clooney doesn't abide next door does he? I would be livid if my H had gone behind my back and checked my phone.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Ellie5 said:


> I agree with Unbelievable, if you go looking for trouble (a bit like reading someone's diary), you may just find it. And George Clooney doesn't abide next door does he? I would be livid if my H had gone behind my back and checked my phone.


I think checking a phone is different than a diary. People don't use diaries to have affairs. Checking a phone is the best way to discover, or head off, an affair.

I think transparency, like sharing phones, email passwords, Facebook passwords, etc., is important in marriage.

But I do agree that it's silly to be upset about a crush on George Clooney.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Transparency is fine - snooping isn't!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Ellie5 said:


> Transparency is fine - snooping isn't!


Transparency means it's not snooping.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Even if my marriage is full transparency I wouldn't feel the need to read silly texts between women.
You look hard enough for something you will find something or create something in your head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Ellie5 said:


> I'd ask myself why I felt the need to check her phone - that strikes me as insecurity / lack of trust, wherein lies the problem. I agree with Unbelievable, if you go looking for trouble (a bit like reading someone's diary), you may just find it. And George Clooney doesn't abide next door does he? I would be livid if my H had gone behind my back and checked my phone.


But Ellie, being on this site gives men ideas that many women "hide" things from them. I, myself, have snooped a bit in my W's e-mails (never read them-just saw who they were from), and she knows that she can look in mine anytime.

Again, many people get "ideas" on this site. Why, it's even gotten to the point where I can't see a couple holding hands and not wonder: "Okay, which one is getting some on the side?"


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

maybe george clonney is code for the guy at work she is banging behind your back that all her girl friends know about!


if your wife isn't being receptive to your intinating sex then theres a problem.


1) maybe your not as good in the bedroom as your think. try upping your game. do some reading on being a better lover.

2) shes resentfull about something. think back and try to figure out why

3) next time you try to kiss her deeply and she is advoiding it just come out ask ask ....whats up don't you like kissing me? and then stop all intamacy and start comunication about your dissatifaction in your marriage.

4) stand your ground when you know something is off don't take poor excuses about whats up. you know when shes being evasive call her on it every time! 

5) start taking charge of your life doing thing for yourself and making sure your ducks are in a row.


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

F-102 said:


> Again, many people get "ideas" on this site. Why, it's even gotten to the point where I can't see a couple holding hands and not wonder: "Okay, which one is getting some on the side?"


I agree...that's why I had to kind of take a hiatus from this website to try and sort things in my relationship out for myself. sometime you can get information overload, too many opinions thrown at you. These threads can be helpful...and harmful. Luckily MOST the people on here just truly want to help,

I really do not think it is ok to snoop through your spouses things, my H does mine and it has been a conflict with us for some time since he never had any clues to me cheating, why does he have to constantly look through my stuff? I don't tell him he's not allowed, he sure can just knock himself out looking for something he's not going to find. I personally never looked through any of his stuff. I just don't care too.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> maybe george clonney is code for the guy at work she is banging behind your back that all her girl friends know about!


First thing that came to my mind as well.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

stumblealong said:


> I agree...that's why I had to kind of take a hiatus from this website to try and sort things in my relationship out for myself. sometime you can get information overload, too many opinions thrown at you. These threads can be helpful...and harmful. Luckily MOST the people on here just truly want to help,
> 
> I really do not think it is ok to snoop through your spouses things, my H does mine and it has been a conflict with us for some time since he never had any clues to me cheating, why does he have to constantly look through my stuff? I don't tell him he's not allowed, he sure can just knock himself out looking for something he's not going to find. I personally never looked through any of his stuff. I just don't care too.


I think nobody should be too trusting.

its a red flag if hes snooping because maybe hs guilty and figures if I could she might be also.

I trusted my wife completly with our finances and came to discover hidden credit card debt. wish I wasn't so trusting all these years now I most likley will NEVER trust her again.and I'm contemplating divorce!!!!!!

I think everybody should have some healthy suspicion twords your wife,Kids,employer,and espically the government!!!!!!!

by healthy I mean no so bad as to be obsessed or ruin relationships over it but if something dose seem off then time to open your eye and verify!


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## joei (Apr 3, 2013)

I feel like such an ass for snooping. For the first time in 13 years I snooped yesterday and checked her Iphone location today. Nothing out of the ordinary. Feel so guilty.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

stumblealong said:


> I really do not think it is ok to snoop through your spouses things, my H does mine and it has been a conflict with us for some time since he never had any clues to me cheating, why does he have to constantly look through my stuff? I don't tell him he's not allowed, he sure can just knock himself out looking for something he's not going to find. I personally never looked through any of his stuff. I just don't care too.


The most common trait of the betrayed spouses on the Coping With Infidelity board is blind trust. The vast majority of betrayed spouses are utterly stunned by their spouse's adultery. They just believed that their spouse wasn't that kind of person. He/she wouldn't cheat in a million years.

And it's that kind of trust that leads you to miss the red flags. So many stories start with some variant of, "Sure my wife was locking/hiding her phone, and suddenly going on girls' night out, and talking a lot about her "work husband," but I thought I could trust her."

So, my advice to every married couple, and every couple considering marriage, is to dispense with harmful, blind trust. Understand that your spouse is human, and thus fallible. Don't allow your spouse to have the space and secrecy necessary to easily betray you.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

If there was a celebrity man I'd recommend not being threatened by - it's George Clooney. Given his inability to maintain a long-term relationship, I thought it was pretty much an accepted given that he is likely gay and deep in the closet. 

I think as others point out, the really issue here is the lack of intimacy between you and your wife, that your sex life isn't what you want it to be, and the fact that she joked so easily about kissing another man when she doesn't seem to like to kiss you. 

This might be the way to start a totally honest conversation about how you feel about your relationship, and why reading that bothered you. But - that means you have to come clean about looking at the message.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Starstarfish said:


> If there was a celebrity man I'd recommend not being threatened by - it's George Clooney. Given his inability to maintain a long-term relationship, I thought it was pretty much an accepted given that he is likely gay and deep in the closet.
> 
> I think as others point out, the really issue here is the lack of intimacy between you and your wife, that your sex life isn't what you want it to be, and the fact that she joked so easily about kissing another man when she doesn't seem to like to kiss you.
> 
> This might be the way to start a totally honest conversation about how you feel about your relationship, and why reading that bothered you. But - that means you have to come clean about looking at the message.


Whether you blindly trust them or watch like a hawk, if your spouse wishes to cheat, they will find a way. If you have one that wishes to cheat, you are better off without them, anyway. Better to identify and get rid of a cheater at 10 years of marriage than at 20 or 30. I either have a committed partner or I have baggage I need to unload. If some strange guy could help me unload a lying, cheating, heifer, he'd only be doing me a major favor.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Uh...I think taking a single comment, a joke (albeit perhaps a bit tasteless) to a girlfriend about a celeb crush, and turning that into railing into calling a woman a liar, a cheater, and a heifer is really grasping at straws. 

So every man who comments during a movie or a commercial to a friend "I'd tap that" referring to a female celebrity (a similarly tasteless joke) is obviously a would-be cheater, is baggage to be unloaded, and a steer, and should be instantly dumped, right?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I apologize, Star, I put my comment under your's and it wasn't appropriate there. I meant to put it under PHTLump's comment about blind trust. It wasn't intended to convey any assumptions about the OP's wife. My wife makes these comments about guys she sees on TV all the time. It's mildly annoying but not threatening. I think what bugs me the most about them is I know if I commented on any other woman, she'd find offense. If Tom Selleck wants to take my place, I hope he knows how to cook.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification, Unbelievable, I was really confused as to how my comment lead to that response, lol - you might want to fix who you are quoting in the post above.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SoxFan said:


> I guess a bit of a key to why this may be bothering me can be found in a recent thread I posted in the Sex in Marraige section. It was titled
> "Do I have to have this conversation again?". Basically it's always me initiating any physical affection. It's hard to be the one who has to continually does this
> And then read texts like what I saw, even if it is all in innocence to amuse her girlfriends.


Your wife is not sexually attracted to you. Even if she was, she'd want you to take the lead, but she would be willing to be led into just about anything. It seems as men age and their testosterone drops, they start wanting the woman to initiate. She may do so, but probably not with the H who is demonstrating low SMV by his passive sexual behavior.

Since your wife isn't sexually attracted to you, how about other women? If the answer is no, or rarely, then you've got work to do to get out of the pity-sex box.

Have you read MMSL?


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## SoxFan (Jun 9, 2012)

So first off let me thank all who posted here. It has given me a lot to think about. I've been checking in and reading throughout the day when I should have been working.

I hear what many are saying about taking a silly comment between gfs and turning it into a big drama is sort of baseless. I think the crux of things really comes down to my dissatisfaction with our intimacy lately and my conveying that to her without any changes.......as my recent post in the Sex in Marriage section details. If I want to be honest about it there have most certainly been times I've said some type of similar things about attractive females when I'm with the boys and I certainly didn't mean anything by it. My concern is that I'm really getting tired of bringing the intimacy issue up without anything changing, the text comment was just a trigger to bring it to the front of my brain again. I think I really do need to broach this again but I need to really convey the deepness of my dissatisfaction with the situation, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it.

As far as the snooping goes.....we have each others Facebook passwords but she doesn't know I have her phone pw. So what's the purpose and why do I snoop?? I don't really know. She's never given me any reason to doubt her and my snooping has never uncovered anything even remotely serious. The issue is when snooping uncovers something like this that annoys me but doesn't rise to the level of a confrontation what's the point other than to cause all this angst in my head? I'm certainly not going to tell her btw, I've been checking your phone for awhile now without you knowing and what's that stupid text about the movie star all about?

So again, thanks for all the input and if there are any other thoughts please let me know.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

SoxFan said:


> I think the crux of things really comes down to my dissatisfaction with our intimacy lately and my conveying that to her without any changes.....
> 
> My concern is that I'm really getting tired of bringing the intimacy issue up without anything changing, the text comment was just a trigger to bring it to the front of my brain again. I think I really do need to broach this again but I need to really convey the deepness of my dissatisfaction with the situation, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it.


Can you go a bit deeper than that? Is it more than the lack of intimacy? When you get that triggered feeling what is your fear or internal conversation?

Is it "damn I'm horny" or is it something else like "She is rejecting me again and I feel unloved", or "I feel abandoned", or "I feel alone (not horny but emotionally)".

You keep having this conversation with her which gets no results. Maybe it isn't about the sex for you. And for her maybe she is hearing something different, like you don't approve of her, etc.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I think I really do need to broach this again but I need to really convey the deepness of my dissatisfaction with the situation, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it.


I agree with Thor. You need to figure out what your sexual relationship (and lack thereof) means to you and why before you try to talk with her about it. And how deep your dissatisfaction is. Is it enough to end your marriage?

Then start with: "Our marriage is in trouble and I need you to listen..."

Be honest about how important this is to you and your marriage. If she can't listen and take you seriously, you don't have a marriage. That doesn't mean instant change. But you'll know if she's taking you seriously or not.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Whether you blindly trust them or watch like a hawk, if your spouse wishes to cheat, they will find a way. If you have one that wishes to cheat, you are better off without them, anyway. Better to identify and get rid of a cheater at 10 years of marriage than at 20 or 30. I either have a committed partner or I have baggage I need to unload. If some strange guy could help me unload a lying, cheating, heifer, he'd only be doing me a major favor.


Your statement assumes that all, or the majority, of cheaters make a conscious decision to cheat. That they wake up and say, "Today's the day that I find somebody to cheat on my husband with."

I believe exactly the opposite. I think that very few cheaters consciously intend to cheat on their spouses no matter what. I think the vast majority of cheaters just start out with insufficient boundaries. Slowly, an opposite sex friendship becomes a crush, which then becomes flirting, which eventually becomes an affair. The final act of taking their clothes off just sneaks up on them and "happens."

Therefore, I think that any person who has insufficient boundaries is at increased risk for cheating on his or her spouse. And I think all spouses have a duty to enforce boundaries in their marriages. And refusing to blindly trust their spouses is part of that.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> If there was a celebrity man I'd recommend not being threatened by - it's George Clooney. Given his inability to maintain a long-term relationship, I thought it was pretty much an accepted given that he is likely gay and deep in the closet.
> 
> I think as others point out, the really issue here is the lack of intimacy between you and your wife, that your sex life isn't what you want it to be, and the fact that she joked so easily about kissing another man when she doesn't seem to like to kiss you.
> 
> This might be the way to start a totally honest conversation about how you feel about your relationship, and why reading that bothered you. But - that means you have to come clean about looking at the message.


:iagree:


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## Foolish1 (Apr 5, 2013)

SoxFan said:


> So first off let me thank all who posted here. It has given me a lot to think about. I've been checking in and reading throughout the day when I should have been working.
> 
> I hear what many are saying about taking a silly comment between gfs and turning it into a big drama is sort of baseless. I think the crux of things really comes down to my dissatisfaction with our intimacy lately and my conveying that to her without any changes.......as my recent post in the Sex in Marriage section details. If I want to be honest about it there have most certainly been times I've said some type of similar things about attractive females when I'm with the boys and I certainly didn't mean anything by it. My concern is that I'm really getting tired of bringing the intimacy issue up without anything changing, the text comment was just a trigger to bring it to the front of my brain again. I think I really do need to broach this again but I need to really convey the deepness of my dissatisfaction with the situation, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it.
> 
> ...


I wonder how doing a 180 would work in a situation like this. Stop complaining or discussing it, start working on yourself, doing stuff to make yourself happy without her. I've thought about it because that was one of the ways I screwed up with my H, not being affectionate enough. Took his EA to snap me out of it (ugh). I find myself wondering if anything else would've gotten through to me. (Not that I use this as an excuse for his EA, nor does he.)

I think it's really good you're not going to bring the comment up to your wife. Especially if you make similar comments to your friends.

My husband "snoops" on me. I fought it for years, thought it was childish and disrespectful. I've had a change of heart, I love him, why wouldn't I want to make him as comfortable as possible? He just feels more comfortable knowing what's going on, being in the dark is a problem for him even if there's nothing happening. Maybe this is the same for you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

PHTlump said:


> Your statement assumes that all, or the majority, of cheaters make a conscious decision to cheat. That they wake up and say, "Today's the day that I find somebody to cheat on my husband with."
> 
> I believe exactly the opposite. I think that very few cheaters consciously intend to cheat on their spouses no matter what. I think the vast majority of cheaters just start out with insufficient boundaries. Slowly, an opposite sex friendship becomes a crush, which then becomes flirting, which eventually becomes an affair. The final act of taking their clothes off just sneaks up on them and "happens."
> 
> Therefore, I think that any person who has insufficient boundaries is at increased risk for cheating on his or her spouse. And I think all spouses have a duty to enforce boundaries in their marriages. And refusing to blindly trust their spouses is part of that.


Of course they make a conscious decision to cheat. They can't help feeling an attraction for a 3rd party but they have to choose to talk to them, choose which words to say, choose to go somewhere with the, choose a private venue, choose how they will lie to their spouse, they have to choose to disrobe, choose which method of birth control will be used, choose how they use their hands, their mouths, and every other appendage. They have to choose each of these at each and every encounter with their 3rd party. Then they have to make dozens of choices daily concerning the cover-up. 

My body only does what I tell it to so I'm 100% responsible for my actions. No adultery "just happens". It occurs repeatedly between one's ears long before anything physical happens. I have never accidentally had sex with another human being and unless someone has been raped while drugged or in a coma, they haven't either.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> My body only does what I tell it to so I'm 100% responsible for my actions. No adultery "just happens". It occurs repeatedly between one's ears long before anything physical happens. I have never accidentally had sex with another human being and unless someone has been raped while drugged or in a coma, they haven't either.


You're talking about the day that the infidelity happens. I'm talking about the weeks, months, or years leading up to that.

For example, a wife who has been married for 10 years sleeps with her "work husband" who she has been friends with for 5 years. By your reasoning, the adultery started the day she took her clothes off. I'm saying that you can trace the affair back for years.

Long before she was naked with another man, she started to dress differently. Before that, she flirted. Before that, she talked to him on the phone about personal issues. And on it goes.

And a man who blindly trusts his wife, and doesn't understand the nature of infidelity, will simply assume that, because she hasn't taken her clothes off yet, she probably never will. That man ignores the steady stream of red flags that almost guarantee that his wife will be sleeping with another man.

That's what you want to guard against. Understand the nature of infidelity. Spend some time on the Coping With Infidelity board. Learn the signs. And don't blindly trust your spouse.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> You're talking about the day that the infidelity happens. I'm talking about the weeks, months, or years leading up to that.
> 
> For example, a wife who has been married for 10 years sleeps with her "work husband" who she has been friends with for 5 years. By your reasoning, the adultery started the day she took her clothes off. I'm saying that you can trace the affair back for years.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Inappropriate Behavior --> Unfaithful --> Cheating

Exactly. The time to deal with issues is very early on when the intention is NOT to cheat. Before the emotional bonds become deep. Before they fall out of love with the BS. Before the mating ritual moves forward. The brain chemicals mask / impair judgement. I am NOT talking about penetration. I am talking about the lingering of conversation. The enjoying of a smile. The feeling better about going to work and thinking it is so noce to see this other person. This is about friendship / bonding that leads to emotional feelings. Feeling that from the WS perspective are NOT unfaithful. If more people would iunderstand this they could head off most of these affairs before they have done their damage.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If one fears transparency it is an indicator of lack of true intimacy. If you are truly intimate with your spouse there is transparency. So one way to not "snoop" is to have transparency. 

Transparency and intimacy go together.  Get you some.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

@SoxFan: Use the opportunity of what you saw to have a conversation with your wife and let her know you checked her phone. 

Start the conversation with this question: "If we could be with another person outside of marriage and have it be ok, who would YOU pick?" Chances are she will say George Clooney. Your response needs to be "I would choose your sister" (or her cousin or her friend if doesn't have a sister). She will be shocked, to say the least, and now you can begin to tell her why those remarks bother you and it's not just since it's George Clooney, but because there is something lacking at home in bed.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

flipflops said:


> Well said! My H also used the words "it just happened".


IF it was a ONS then it could have just flat been a decision to cheat.

IF he knew his affair partner prior to the actual sex then it did not just happen.

Realize that this is all about brain chemicals to where the WS is in denial. Indeed at some point prior to the cheating it is most likely blatant decisions to cheat / be unfaithful.

However these things get set in motion long long before this ... typically. I do not know your specifics so your situation may be an outlier, but odds are it is not. Indeed cheating is 100% on the WS. But the WS goes through various levels of denial and rationalization. If this was an EA first then this is what happened. IF it was a sexual affair right from the start then that is another matter.

These things normally start with having very poor boundaries and an ego that says that they can handle this. These are a requirement for an EA.

As far as this thread is concerned ...

I never understood the attraction to this extent to celebrities. Meaning, I could care less what a another woman's sex rank is or whether she was rated in the top ten sexieist women in the world. Who cares? Sure I can recognize that such a woman is hot. Now I suppose people say some pretty dumb stuff that makes you wonder what they mean. But any indication that a spouse would have any kind of sex with anoyone but their spouse is dubious to me. How hot they are is very much beside the point. I do agree that the issue is lack of intimacy within the marriage. I would alos say that this was out of context. One sample. It makes you wonder how this woman normally behaves or whether this was a one off.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

flipflops said:


> This happened a LONG time ago. He met her on a business/training trip and had sex with her both nights. For years after that he continued an EA with her. I highly suspect she flew out to see him on at least one occasion. He never confessed to that part of it.


I see. Wow. Ok.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

My husband used to be in LOVE with"Kathy Ireland"...Oh well she moved on..I'm still here...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> If one fears transparency it is an indicator of lack of true intimacy. If you are truly intimate with your spouse there is transparency. So one way to not "snoop" is to have transparency.
> 
> Transparency and intimacy go together. Get you some.


I'm rather surprised over the amount of angst people on here feel about a spouse knowing your password and reading your texts. Full transparency all the way. Privacy is for the bathroom. 

But I do believe that the text is innocent enough. You have to have more to go on than a throw away line like that. Is there any other behavior by the wife that is suspicious? If not, then I'd just do what you've been doing - occasionally check up on her just to make sure everything is good. Don't be surprised if she does that to you as well.


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

Once you tell her you're looking at her texts, the Clooney thing is going to seem very petty to her. Just sayin...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

SoxFan said:


> I guess a bit of a key to why this may be bothering me can be found in a recent thread I posted in the Sex in Marraige section. It was titled
> "Do I have to have this conversation again?". *Basically it's always me initiating any physical affection*. It's hard to be the one who has to continually does this
> And then read texts like what I saw, even if it is all in innocence to amuse her girlfriends.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not going to go any further. I'll just give you the bad news now.

She either doesn't love you or doesn't find you attractive.

A horrible perfect storm of triggers brought me to these forums about 3.5 years ago. Let me tell you about one of them. I was in the heat of a 5 year rut: about three years of ZERO sex. Zero, because after 2 years of her obviously not wanting it, I decided that my initiations amounted more to rape than love, so I stopped. I actually toyed with the idea that she was a closet lesbian. Sure, she would comment on hot rock stars and actors, but I figure the fame, power, money, success had more to do with her lust for them than their bodies. Must be. She doesn't like sex, right? Lusting after rich famous stars didn't bother me (I wasn't as clarevoyant as you are).

So. We're at a party at our pool. A friend of hers is in town. They're talking. I step up. Subject changes. After a little standard awkward silence that regularly follows a third party entering an existing conversation, my wife's friend tries breaking the silence with a seemingly innocent statement: "you're right Ms. K, these lifeguards really are hot.

Now, I don't know how it is near you, but we import gods and goddesses from eastern block countries in our large metropolitan area to work the pools as lifeguards. We import them for the summer and they go home. We got gods this year. I have no problem with my wife finding someone attractive. If we got some of these eastern block blonde goddesses, I'd be showing cell pics to perfect strangers on the street to inform them of my good fortune. 

But that statement from my wife. She went out of her way to tell her friend about how hot these beefcakes were. They have no money. No fame. No talent. They are just pure eastern European beef. It was all physical lust.

That simple statement crushed my world. It wasn't sex my wife hated. It wasn't kissing my wife hated. It wasn't intimacy my wife hated. It was sex, kissing and intimacy with ME that she hated.

That sent me to these boards where I learned that my wife fell out of love with me many, many years ago. She was a walk-away and I didn't know it. We're still together. She'll have sex with me when I initiate. No kissing. No orgasm. Just a George Carlin "man on top get it over with quick".

I know, I know. That's not you. You have the greatest relationship in the world. It's just the sex that's lacking. Me too. And I have been living in the hell of a broken marriage ever since.

Big deal. She lusts after George Clooney (as did my wife, by the way). Get over it everyone says. And I say strap yourself in for a ride.

Good luck. And as George Clooney says at the beginning of Gladiator, you are about to "unleash hell".

Good luck.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry. That wasn't clooney in Gladiator. It was one of teh OTHER movie stars she lusts after.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Just looking for a bright side here. This is a sign she has not completely closed off -- in her friendly girlfriend to girlfriend banter at least -- from the possibility of sexual pleasure and fun in her life.

Maybe inside her embers still quietly burn. And, maybe your the guy that will get the first chance to fan them and bask in the, uhm, afterglow.

IMHO, revealing your Clooney find will only put that opportunity further out of reach. 

Point is, it would be worse if she never ever thought playfully about sex with anyone at all ever again. Physical and deeper psychological issues might be more likely if she were that far from what you want.

After my wife's EA, I have no qualms about snooping or being snooped on. It's a fact good people cheat, and good people doubt for all sorts of reasons from silly to serious and understandable to not. IMHO, if one is pro-love and pro-fidelity and pro-marriage, then one should be open to his or her partner obtaining significant visibility into one's interaction with the more interesting sex. I give my Love permission to snoop for any reason she wants, especially for her to feel secure and loved and safe.


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