# What's the difference between people who seek revenge and those who don't?



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

My IC session today focused on my annoying need/want for vengeance/revenge. 

I "accomplish" this primarily through words/digs at him. It gets me nowhere and only gives him some fuel for his "seesheisa*****soshedeservestobecheatedon" fire.

I don't want to talk too much about what we talked about because I'm trying to gather thoughts to work through all of this stuff. 

Are you the type that is tempted to (or does) seek revenge? Can you pinpoint why exactly you do that?

Are you the type that is NOT tempted to seek revenge? Do you have any advice about what makes you that type of (elevated, in my opinion) person?

My IC also told me today she thinks I need to go away by myself for a day or two and spend some time alone, seriously allowing myself to grieve . That may be a whole 'nother issue/post.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I never seek revenge for anything. A desire for revenge increases the importance of your enemy in your mind. Better to not think that they are worth the effort of your revenge.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I never seek revenge for anything. A desire for revenge increases the importance of your enemy in your mind. Better to not think that they are worth the effort of your revenge.


I agree, but it's hard to just make that person NOT important to you anymore. Or the importance of their opinion (or, conversely, rejection) of you.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm passive aggressive, I don't so much seek revenge, I just become 'unavailable.'


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Focus and commitment.


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## NewLife2017 (Aug 16, 2014)

I don't seek revenge because it makes me no better than the person I am seeking it against. Also, I am both terrified and thankful for karma. That old saying "what goes around, comes around". I may not witness karma but I do believe it happens in some form to those that have caused pain. Myself included.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Revenge is personal, whereas justice is impartial. I think people seek revenge when justice fails or is impossible. Infidelity has basically been decriminalized. Why does the WS get to cause this much pain then divorce without any civil consequence? Where is the justice?

That said, I will not seek revenge. I will not settle for retaliation just because there is no justice. What would justice for infidelity look like? You should forfeit all that you betrayed (marital property, child custody). I'd also see WSs tagged as cheaters in some way .. not so much to shame them, but so the BSs know who to avoid.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your need for revenge stems from love. You need to make your WH feel pain so that he can realize and understand his transgressions and set it right. You need for him to feel what you feel but he cannot. You just cannot see how he is not hurting and in anguish over your M ending but the reason is because he is truly indifferent to it. He no longer cares. You cannot really hurt him because his feelings for you are no longer there. This is the place you must come to to be completely free from him. When his life matters to you not at all, then you will be free and ready to pursue a new life.

Your difficulty releasing your concern for him is due to the fact that your feelings are not fleeting and superficial. You feel more deeply, therefore you hurt more deeply. In time, they will fade and you will be free of him but you must allow them time to die. An mighty Oak tree does not die overnight however, a shallowly rooted weed does. That is the difference. I wish good fortune for you.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I think revenge is our desire to make others share in our pain.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

No i am not the sort of person who seeks revenge as that would make me No better than them. I believe what goes around comes around.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> My IC session today focused on my annoying need/want for vengeance/revenge.
> 
> I "accomplish" this primarily through words/digs at him. It gets me nowhere and only gives him some fuel for his "seesheisa*****soshedeservestobecheatedon" fire.
> 
> ...


Yes -I am the type to seek revenge. As to the why's? Not really sure. It's not like that all the time...It depends on the circumstance really. If I'm not going for payback -I let it go. 

When it comes to infidelity though....I believe what I would most likely do could look like revenge to some -but it would really be self-protection. I would just be gone. I would have to. I love my wife so deeply- in such a consuming way -if things were to go south -I would never, never want to see her again. I can either be her husband or be a stranger -there would be no in between for me. I have a passport and the means to leave and not return. I would do that. 

So i guess -revenge is a point of view. Maybe ask yourself what revenge would really look like, for you. Could anything make it even? If there is a way...you have to honestly ask yourself if it is something you could do....If you hesitate when you answer this -than you can't do it and shouldn't try. I have learned- the hard way -where the metal meets the meat...everyone gets really dirty. It doesn't wash off.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I love revenge but I love justice more.

Jung is spot on with me. If justice isn't available, I'm for payback every time. I am for what works however. I wouldn't hurt myself or anyone that didn't have it coming just to get back at someone.

I'm also pretty good at forgiving when someone is repentant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Revenger here. I don't believe in the afterlife, and I don't really believe in karma.

I'll hit back in measure to the attack/harm on me, and if sufficiently grievous, be done with that person afterward. It doesn't make me feel better about anything. For me, it's rather about their actions harming me coming at equal cost to them. They will not hurt me with impunity.

I suck at forgiveness. Above a certain threshold, I don't forgive. I forget... them.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't usually feel the need for revenge in my personal relationships when I feel wronged. I never wanted to get even at my wife. The OM--oh yea but the impulse is diproportionate. He might be an immoral cad, but I never met and him and he never broke a promise to me. 

In general matters I do feel a need for revenge, but it tends to fade over time. This is not something I achieved its just an inclination that I was born with. However there are other downsides to being unemotional about harm done unto you that I won't get into right now.

Thinking about it now, I just realized for the first time that I take the people I choose to care about (close family, very close friends, spouse) into a special "circle" in my psyche where I don't easily see when I am being hurt by them. For someone in this circle I:



Exclude from thoughts of revenge
Assume the best of them
Trust
Confide
Speak my heart and mind

It just now strikes me that I suspect most people are more cautious with these things. 

So there is the other side of the coin. A healthy balance is the key.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I achieve revenge every single day by living well and treating myself the way I should have always been treated. With respect.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Revenge? I talked about it. I wished for it. I hoped for it. I hoped for karma. This was all about what happened to me in my second divorce and in the first year or two after. 

I flip-flopped back and forth from that to loving feelings and deep hurt beyond anything I've ever felt before. I struggle to accept it to this day. 

Sometimes, I want to see her grieving and/or in a bad state of life, as I am. Sometimes I want to know that she has been crushed, as I have.

Sometimes, I want to talk with her and find out what happened. I really don't get it, nor do I understand the intricacies of what happened. There was so much that happened, and it all seemed related, but I would like to know if it really was or was just coincidence. I don't have the strength yet, to talk with her about it. I think I would still break down and cry my eyes out. I don't want to do that. It would accomplish nothing. It would only hurt me further. 

I have never in my life been a person that actively seeks revenge. I wish for it and talk about it at times. The reason I have talked about it is because it helped me release the desire to actually do anything. Fantasy was enough. I've never been able to exact revenge of any kind on anyone. If someone thinks I have, it would have to have been coincidence, or maybe I was just doing what the law allowed? I don't know.

I can't even remember a time when I got revenge for anything. I was never one of those guys who is smart enough to know how to do it and make it count without being caught or doing something illegal. So, I just never actually did anything. I never had enough friends that would get angry with someone I was angry with and help out. I never had an attorney that said he would seek justice in a vengeful sort of way. Heck, my attorney just wanted me to accept everything and get it over with. He really didn't help much at all. I wasn't here at that time either, or I might have found some ways to take legal revenge.

Anyway, I think it hurt me not to be able to get legal revenge in some manner. I think it's easy to forgive when you think you are right, have lost love and found another mate, your life is going well, always liked being alone, can date easily and attract others fairly easily, or some other reason. I am none of those things and have gotten the short end of the stick. Did I do things wrong? Sure I did. The things I actually did were not discussed, but things that were assumed I did were held prominently and I had no defense. I was a mess an could not defend myself. In fact, I was such a mess, at times, some the most critical times, I was duped into admitting something I didn't know I was admitting until as much as over a year later. Sometimes, I couldn't take the abuse I was receiving and just agreed and admitted things when I had no idea what they meant. Sometimes, I admitted whole-heartedly to things I knew I did in my first marriage and thought that's what they were asking about, only to find out later, they meant my second marriage. What a mess. 

I wanted revenge for the repurcussions caused by one thing done to me which made those admissions all the more easy. I've never gotten or actively attempted anything. I've felt all alone about it, like I deserved all I got. I assure you, I did not deserve all I got. I deserved a divorce, but not all that I received on top of that. I even had trouble with things that happened in my first marriage, which ended in separation in July of 1993 and divorce in '97. What a total mess. 

So, I completely understand why someone might hope for karma or revenge or whatever term you might use. The time for that seems to be when exposing an affair. Exposure seems to be the best way and then adding a great life after is the coupe de gras. Not everyone can do that or leave behind what happened. Sometimes it follows you where ever you go. 

Who knows what will happen in your life? You have plenty of time to attempt whatever you want in life and feeling emotional about your situation is completely normal. If you can find a way to live life a little, make new friends or renew old friendships, help the needy, go to a college or university, exercise, or any number of other things, you might find yourself moving forward. I like that term better than moving on. I think you might be able to heal faster by actively attempting to do things you've never done before. Don't get me wrong. I don't mean anything crazy, just something that pushes some life into your existence. Stretch your wings and fly a little before you give in to depression. Fight it with all you have. You don't deserve it. You deserve to be happy like anyone else.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Sometimes, I want to see her grieving and/or in a bad state of life, as I am. Sometimes I want to know that she has been crushed, as I have.
> 
> Sometimes, I want to talk with her and find out what happened. I really don't get it, nor do I understand the intricacies of what happened. There was so much that happened, and it all seemed related, but I would like to know if it really was or was just coincidence. I don't have the strength yet, to talk with her about it. I think I would still break down and cry my eyes out. I don't want to do that. It would accomplish nothing. It would only hurt me further.


Respectfully snipped by me.

Thank you for your heart-felt response.

I do not know your whole story, although I gather you've been here for a while by the number of your posts, so one day I will catch up. Sounds like you've been through a lot.

One thing my counselor and I did talk about today, briefly at the end as we always go way over our time, was that I have this idea in my head that he's going to have this amazing fantastic life with OW after I'm gone. She tells me, as my sis and mom do too, that this is just not clear thinking on my part and it is his psychopathic ways that do a pretty damn good job convincing me of that. 

But, the thing is, I don't want to be that person that wants him to suffer, to be unhappy, to live an unhappy life. But that IS the person I am right now, and I don't like her! She's ugly!

Truth be told, I don't think I'M going to have a terrible life after I move out. I'm optimistic about having a really good life, so why do I care so much about vengeance? UGH! 

It really makes me feel like a bad person .


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Define revenge. 

Back in the day I doled out harsh repercussions to someone who deliberately wronged me. And I do mean very physical to one OM in particular. Do I regret it? Nope, but I probably wouldn't do it again at this stage of my life.

Today, I would make both suffer repercussions in the form of swift, nuclear exposure.....and I do mean very nuclear. But, to paraphrase Tombstone, I wouldn't consider that revenge, but the reckoning.

Allowing consequences for sh!tty behavior to fall fully on the shoulders of the betrayers should never be considered revenge, IMO.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

Not into revenge. I'm not wasting any precious time in my life trying to hurt others, or even spend time in such a dark place contemplating it. I also have no interest in lowering myself to that level. 

Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never felt the need or desire to hurt somebody else. I think somebody would have to do something really heinous like murder my child to inspire such dark thoughts and feelings in me. Luckily nothing like that has ever happened to me.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

3putt said:


> Define revenge.
> 
> Back in the day I doled out harsh repercussions to someone who deliberately wronged me. And I do mean very physical to one OM in particular. Do I regret it? Nope, but I probably wouldn't do it again at this stage of my life.
> 
> ...


By revenge I mean lashing out verbally to make him feel as terrible as he makes me feel. In addition to that, I have the ability to exact financial revenge on him, but have not done that due to his threats of taking away certain things from our children if I do, and blaming it on me. (And by financial "revenge" I mean making him pay 100% of what the courts say I'm entitled to in child support instead of the current 40% I've agreed to so he can still live in the house he lives in and have all of the animals, horses for our daughter, etc.) 

Mostly what I talk to my counselor about is how I either lash out verbally to him or respond to him verbally. But, even more than that, it is my DESIRE to see him hurt like I do . OR have him be remorseful. But even if he was, even if he acknowledged every single thing he's done and every hurt he's inflicted on me, what good would that even do? (This is what we talked about today) There's zero chance we're ever going to be together again, so I think that might even make it worse! 

I'm just having a hard time understanding myself because I'm a really nice person. I've never desired vengeance on anyone in my life except him, and I hate that power he has over me since he thinks nothing of me, the mother of his children. 

Sorry for all the rambling. Just trying to shed this part of me because I don't like how it feels.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Giro flee said:


> Not into revenge. I'm not wasting any precious time in my life trying to hurt others, or even spend time in such a dark place contemplating it. I also have no interest in lowering myself to that level.
> 
> Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never felt the need or desire to hurt somebody else. I think somebody would have to do something really heinous like murder my child to inspire such dark thoughts and feelings in me. Luckily nothing like that has ever happened to me.


What IS the worst that's ever happened to you? (Without getting too personal) Have you ever been very, very hurt? ('m sorry, I'm not familiar with you here on TAM) If so, do you have any idea what it is about you that is able to just put it aside?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> By revenge I mean lashing out verbally to make him feel as terrible as he makes me feel. In addition to that, I have the ability to exact financial revenge on him, but have not done that due to his threats of taking away certain things from our children if I do, and blaming it on me. (And by financial "revenge" I mean making him pay 100% of what the courts say I'm entitled to in child support instead of the current 40% I've agreed to so he can still live in the house he lives in and have all of the animals, horses for our daughter, etc.)
> 
> Mostly what I talk to my counselor about is how I either lash out verbally to him or respond to him verbally. But, even more than that, it is my DESIRE to see him hurt like I do . OR have him be remorseful. But even if he was, even if he acknowledged every single thing he's done and every hurt he's inflicted on me, what good would that even do? (This is what we talked about today) There's zero chance we're ever going to be together again, so I think that might even make it worse!
> 
> ...


You see, what you call revenge, I call consequences. That's why I asked. We simply disagree on the definitions.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Respectfully snipped by me.
> 
> Thank you for your heart-felt response.
> 
> ...


My counselor had never even suggested anything like that and only says I will never know what happened, then asks me how my day was and if anything is on my mind. That's it. I need and have needed help to understand like your counselor gave for years. I've tried and gone through several and still have not found one single person to help in such a manner. I don't even know why.

I asked him today a few crucial questions and had to call him out for not answering any one of them. He doesn't suggest anything. He says it's up to me what I want to do there and then doesn't answer pertinent questions. He seems to think I should be over it. Well, apparently there is a reason for his thoughts. I asked today. He didn't answer. I feel like I'm in limbo and cannot get help. It's like I am not allowed to get help to heal. I don't understand it. 

He tells me he thinks she and I had very different views on what a marriage should be. I asked what that meant to him. He asked if I thought he was right. I told him I supposed so, since we are divorced. I mean, this is the kind of help I'm getting. Basically, a bunch of dodge and weave while letting me stew.

When I was married, I had a much different outlook. I wasn't happy go lucky. I never was, but I had hope and some vigor for life, for a long time. I had dreams for the future. I longed for things and talked of them. I desired her love and attention, companionship and so forth, just like anyone else. I did what I could to be decent. All things changed. I just don't get it. 

If you haven't watched this yet, I suggest checking it out. It's odd and it's on the mark to some extent. Someone had a thread with this and I watched it. I want to agree with her, but she doesn't address the one thing I wanted to know. Why don't we try to make things work anymore, instead of throwing it all away with infidelity? She says there is a longing and I don't know that. I imagine you don't either. I mean, I long for a marriage like no other. I know it's not in the cards for me, or maybe anyone. That doesn't matter. As she said, it's all in our heads anyway. What we think about our marriage is what we believe it is. Well, of course it is. I found that out a few months back when I was researching some stuff. 

We are a soup of chemicals, memories, feeling associated with people and events, feelings associated with sickness and health. We believe we are something important, but we are only as important as someone thinks we are. There are lots of opinions from many people about who and what each of us is. So, we believe one thing in a marriage and are devastated to find we were living a lie. It's earth shaking. It's life altering. 

She says folks cheat because of longing. Well, I longed for a wife and no children. Even told her and she agreed, no children. Then she moved her daughter in with us thinking it was no big deal. I mean, I guess she had this idea of who she was married to and it was nothing like me. 

You know what I find missing? It's not assumptions, because they are all over the place in a bad marriage. It's truth. It's communication. It's honest questions and honest answers. Anyway, here is the video. It's worth a look.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

REVENGE HERE....

I used to wish I was dead and then realized I was wishing the wrong person dead...

I wanted everything to go wrong for my Ex wife.. 

In many ways it did.. But not because I was seeking revenge and causing her any issues.. It all worked out that way for me because I was honest and open with my kids... I listened to what many said and never bad mouthed my Ex.. Though I wanted with all my breath to call her a fvcking kunt to my kids.. Yes that is harsh, but I was pissed..

I wasn't burnt by her.. I was SCORCHED.. She totally leveled me with what she did... 

Today I wish her a LONG and healthy life, because I want her to pay me child support for a very long time.. If my kids go to college and they will, she will be paying me up until she is 63 and will have to come across with some college finances as well if the courts allow it as she agreed to it.. I am learning that court judges and magistrates don't really want to do anything involved and only want to do what is good for them.. They want short easy cases.. 

Its a phase you're going through.. Once you start dating again it goes away.. I used to obsess about my ex wife.. Now she only comes to mind when she forces me into court for something.. Like when she doesn't want to pay child support.. 

Today I am too busy worrying about my kids and my future with the current GF to even care what happens to her.. 

You will see, over time it will go away.. But yea I wanted to fvck over my Ex any way possible.. I was just lucky that she just fvcked everything up by herself and all I had to do is sit there and watch.. 

Mind you I wouldn't go out of my way to hurt her today, but I still wouldn't piss on her teeth if they were on fire either.. 

To me for my own personal story.. She ended this the utterly worst way possible and I foreseen it and I warned her numerous times it just didn't have to be this way.. It just didn't have to end this way.. I even mentioned it in my own thread here.. 

Only because of that do I dislike her and her boyfriend.. Plus she cut out my oldest son so I have to back him up.. I won't forgive her for that.. But again, everyones story is different here.. Personally I think I am justified about how I feel about my ex because of what she has done to me and my boys..


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> My counselor had never even suggested anything like that and only says I will never know what happened, then asks me how my day was and if anything is on my mind. That's it. I need and have needed help to understand like your counselor gave for years. I've tried and gone through several and still have not found one single person to help in such a manner. I don't even know why.
> 
> I asked him today a few crucial questions and had to call him out for not answering any one of them. He doesn't suggest anything. He says it's up to me what I want to do there and then doesn't answer pertinent questions. He seems to think I should be over it. Well, apparently there is a reason for his thoughts. I asked today. He didn't answer. I feel like I'm in limbo and cannot get help. It's like I am not allowed to get help to heal. I don't understand it.
> 
> ...


I did watch that video this morning already, and talked to my counselor about it today . Especially because many things she said corresponded to what was said in the video.

What I bolded is also what we talked about, and she even used the word "devastated." Part of what devastates me so much is mourning what I THOUGHT our relationship was, but I was totally deceived and that person doesn't even exist. That is really really hard to wrap your brain around. 

You really need to try to find a new counselor. I believe mine is extraordinary, and she isn't even licensed yet. Many times she has said to me, "Now, I'm not saying what I'm about to say to insult you or piss you off..." She tells it like it is, even if I'm the wrong one. She also gives me homework, which I think is very important in a therapist. (Mostly journaling assignments) I don't need someone to just sit there and listen to me for an hour. I have girlfriends for that. She gets up and maps thought processes out on a white board, is prepared with print-outs for me before I arrive, etc. She's awesome.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> REVENGE HERE....
> 
> I used to wish I was dead and then realized I was wishing the wrong person dead...
> 
> ...


I won't be ready or willing to date for a while, but I DO know that when/if that happens, it will help put him aside, because I've done it before. We divorced in 2010 and this split we're now going through is a result of a reconciliation that only I meant, and not him. I think this time hurts more than the first because of all of the emotions and resolve and commitment I threw into this reconciliation. I was doing it for all the right reasons, and he didn't give a crap, apparently. He did it for financial gain, which is a whole 'nother story. 

I just feel so battered and bruised (unfortunately, that is literal) this time around because my entire judgment system has been called into question. (I'm working with my counselor on this, too). 

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I know I'm going to be just fine. I just need to get rid of this burden of bitterness, hate and resentment and it's really hard.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

She is awesome and that kind of thing is what I talked with my counselor about today. He just doesn't care about anything or at least, that's the impression I get.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I can't imagine how ANGRY, the whirlwind of emotions it would be -to have someone you loved & trusted turn on you.. and want to make your life miserable.. I have only dealt with fragments of this from girlfriends (Petty sh**).... or minor hurts from family members... 

I know I would not be able to stay within a marriage where it was filled with resentment & ongoing pushing each others buttons in a hurtful manner.. If some humility to my own faults couldn't mend this.. with his doing the same-then committing to going forth helping each other BE better people.... I would have lost hope a long long time ago..... I'd have to get out.. for my own sanity & happiness..... 

The Revenge thing.. I like to believe what goes around -eventually comes back around.. if one is a Hurtful unsympathetic, lacking empathy type person.. it WILL COME AROUND ...our actions have consequences in the real world.. people won't put up with that !

And those who are loving & caring.. generally bring happiness to others. Also, very angry people are generally hurting inside.... this is why they hurt other people.. so they are in fact dealing with their own demons in the moment.. having to live with someone like this though, who isn't working on themselves..just tiring.. exhausting... if they take the brunt out on the innocents around them. 

If you are a good hearted person.. get out, surround yourself with caring people.. 

There is this curious Proverb in the bible.. Proverbs 24:17 that says " Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice, or the Lord will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him".

Now being human & all. Come on.. we'll be smiling when we see someone we feel has it coming to them- get BURNED.. but all in all.. we have to keep this in perspective.. the best revenge is.. focusing on moving on to greener pastures where you are loved for who you are & give back.. finding your own happiness.. Don't give too much power to someone who isn't there for us.. this is a wasting of our lives.. 

I also like this..


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Your need for revenge stems from love. You need to make your WH feel pain so that he can realize and understand his transgressions and set it right. You need for him to feel what you feel but he cannot. You just cannot see how he is not hurting and in anguish over your M ending but the reason is because he is truly indifferent to it. He no longer cares. You cannot really hurt him because his feelings for you are no longer there. This is the place you must come to to be completely free from him. When his life matters to you not at all, then you will be free and ready to pursue a new life.
> 
> Your difficulty releasing your concern for him is due to the fact that your feelings are not fleeting and superficial. You feel more deeply, therefore you hurt more deeply. In time, they will fade and you will be free of him but you must allow them time to die. An mighty Oak tree does not die overnight however, a shallowly rooted weed does. That is the difference. I wish good fortune for you.


Thank you for this, NoChoice. I will read it again and again to give me strength, until I reach that blessed place when his life matters to me not at all.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> But, the thing is, I don't want to be that person that wants him to suffer, to be unhappy, to live an unhappy life. But that IS the person I am right now, and I don't like her! She's ugly!


I actually am the person you describe above. I'd have to get some form of revenge to keep my sanity. And not revenge against the AP, revenge against the WS. It wouldn't matter if I was trying to reconcile (which I wouldn't) or not. Maybe that doesn't make me a nice person, but that's my attitude.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> What IS the worst that's ever happened to you? (Without getting too personal) Have you ever been very, very hurt? ('m sorry, I'm not familiar with you here on TAM) If so, do you have any idea what it is about you that is able to just put it aside?


I grew up with an abusive, alcoholic, angry father, and a controlling, judgemental mother. They constantly fought with each other, were angry with just about everybody in life, and pretty much scared the crap out of me as a child. I have no desire to be anything like that. 

I've had somebody cheat on me, I've had people steal from me, I've had people say hurtful things to me. Doesn't mean I want to be hurtful and ugly. I set up boundaries and keep them in place for people who are not good to me. I want to be happy, peaceful, and compassionate and that is what I strive for in life. All of the anger doesn't seem to have helped my parents at all, seems like a life wasted being angry.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

For me, the best revenge has been moving on without them and realizing you didn't ever "need" them.

I still have my moments though. Had one today, in fact. I think it's normal to feel this after such a huge betrayal.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't go out of my way to seek revenge. If the opportunity for justice presents itself I will capitalize. 

I usually just stay out of the way and let them screw it up all on there own. I do probably get too much pleasure out of saying "I told you so".


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The first time my now ex-husband cheated I was very hurt but not really all that angry. The second time he cheated, I was very angry and while going through the divorce process I said some awful things (all true but still awful) and I raged on a regular basis. A big part of it was that I was extremely angry with myself for having been stupid enough to give him a second chance. It was so much worse than the first time.

I felt used for having trusted he would never again rip my heart out and I was filled with bitterness and regret. I was afraid I would carry that hate and all those negative feelings forever. But I haven't. Once the divorce was final, I forgave him (I did it for myself -- not for him). And now I'm happy and at peace with my life. That feeling is priceless. 
I just wish I had done it much sooner but better late than never.:smile2:


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The difference (to me) is... 

Revenge = you still want to waste energy on someone unworthy, demonstrating you have no real desire to move on. Even the deliciously satisfying feeling revenge nets cannot cover the fact that you are unable to walk away without having the last word. You simply must have the last word,unknowingly opening yourself to retaliation and in effect, creating a means by which revenge could become an endless, bitter tennis match. But it's what you want, right?

No revenge = you have no qualms about severing the tethers that bind you to a toxic person. You move on, free of the preoccupation of revenge, knowing it's a waste of good energy that could go to so many other, more worthy things. Rather than feel the need to have the last word, you leave it with the other party, so that as they watch you ride off into the distance, without a thought or care for them, they may choke upon it.


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## jessicag (May 24, 2015)

I thought very much about a revenge affair to bring him pain. Then I realized that the only person I would be hurting is myself. I would be compromising my own values and morals to try to hurt him! There is no sense to be made of that, just as there can be no sense made by what they have done to us.
One thing I did do is lie very quickly that I had...you should have seen the look on his face. That felt good. I told him to save those feelings of shock, horror, anger, sadness, disappointment and disgust that he felt in that moment before I quickly told him that I was just lying to make him feel something close to empathy. I told him to store and save that feeling and think of that often. Also, multiply it by 15 women and 7 years and then he might begin to understand.
Unfortunately, the sicko later told me it had also turned him on to think of me being with another person! So much for that. 
Anyways, don't sink to their level. We're better than that!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I guess it is tied to the stages of grief after the discovery of the affair. The shock of why and then the realization that the person you thought you knew could do this. The realization that they do not know (or dont want to know) the pain they caused and the anger for the betrayal precipitates some towards 'educating' the WS on the pain of the BS. This is where revenge comes in. We all have different ways of handling betrayal of trust. Some will just walk away quietly, some will do 'damage' on the way.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I wasn't going to post on this, but here goes.

It depends with me. There was times none was called for, and times when I could not sleep without finding a way to make someone pay.

My childhood is way to complicated to write here. We was migrants, a mother and grandmother with 6 kids. Get the picture.

Where I'm at now,, scarred and battered, but comfortable in my own skin and the things I still will do if needed.
I admire people that can be the bigger person, but I don't want to be them.

My wife has been bed ridden for years, but I still keep the faith. Why, she stood by me and still does.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* Being the confirmed and devout Christian male that I am, I had to be gently reminded by my Methodist pastor of the words of the Apostle Paul, "Do not take revenge, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written ~ Revenge is mine, sayeth the Lord ~ I will repay!" 
Romans 12:19.

Inasfar as what my rich, skanky XW had consciously chosen to do to me as her husband, and upon my finally ferreting out the full truth of the matter well into our post-separation phase, I personally wanted to exact the unbridled revenge of God on her rich, skanky a$$. And what better way than to tell her loving family, who had, over the course of our 7 year marriage, had me firmly believing that they had truly adopted me as one of their very own.

But my pastor made the most impact on me that revenge of that nature would almost always backfire, primarily because that whenever confronted with the apparent misdeeds of one of their very own blood kin, that a family will almost always come to back it's own blood members almost every single time, more especially when the complaint originates from someone outside the natural family circle!

I was livid. I was angry! I was so very hurt! I was so betrayed! I was so very heartbroken! 

And it wasn't the mere fact that she had chosen to reconnect with these men from her past on FB! It wasn't the fact that she spent countless covert hours in both talking and texting with them; it wasn't the fact that she planned her business road trips to their home venues, often staying overnight or over the course of a weekend to "transact business," all while leaving me to take care of our home and ranch duties; it wasn't the fact that her texts and posts to and from these guys was so sexually explicit; it wasn't the fact that she chose to let them share her body by shoving their manhood deep inside her; not was it the fact that she drove straight home to me and then made love to me in our marital bed with me being so totally oblivious to the fact that while I was making love to her, that some other man had been there, often just a few short hours prior, preeminently turning me into some unknowing cuckold! And it wasn't the fact that she had asked me to leave our home for "a trial separation," in order to allow us to get things turned around in our lives. Nor was it the fact that nothing was ever said to her IC/MC about any of this activity!


What did matter? The sheer betrayal, deception and conspiracy in her carrying out such a secretive, sordid plan against me, knowing all along what the end result was likely going to be! That is why I wanted to exact revenge ~ to absolve myself from any of this activity of hers and to foremostly try as best I could to set the record straight!

So I took my pastor's advice and just placed it in God's hands, trusting that at some point in time, that she will have to admit and confess to these sins of hers, just as we all will have to for those of our very own!

And while I still occasionally feel the pangs of wanting to see justice against her enacted on an escalated timetable, I know that in firmly placing that burden into God's hands for Him to take care of, frees me up to do the more important things in life that will better exemplify His glory, moreso than exacting revenge against her for her deception in deriving her secretive and selfish carnal pleasures outside of our avowed holy union!

And as she enters her third marriage within the next few days, I truly hope that she has given ample thought to her former misgivings and that she will never choose to ever employ those tactics of utter deception again!

But in order to ever fully do that, she would first have to come to the stark and sobering realization that each and every one of her prior infidelic actions were both morally and egregiously wrong. Otherwise, if some unfortunate or divisive characteristic were to suddenly occur within the scope of this "new" marriage of hers, then all of her prior acts of "cheating" is something that is already firmly entrenched within her memory banks, and that she would never ever have to attempt to relearn!*


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

God Bless you Arbitrator.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You and richardsharpe are such gentlemen, arb. Always gracious.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

STA. You want to hurt him verbally. It occurred to me that he has hurt you verbally. He is being a jack ass from all you have said but maybe his words are hitting their mark?

Is the reason his words hurt so much because he knows what you value about yourself and maybe, you have betrayed your own beliefs and some core principles?

I am not saying he didn't do the same things that you did during your separation and divorce but maybe you betrayed your nature more than he and that is why his words hurt you so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Satya said:


> The difference (to me) is...
> 
> Revenge = you still want to waste energy on someone unworthy, demonstrating you have no real desire to move on. Even the deliciously satisfying feeling revenge nets cannot cover the fact that you are unable to walk away without having the last word. You simply must have the last word,unknowingly opening yourself to retaliation and in effect, creating a means by which revenge could become an endless, bitter tennis match. But it's what you want, right?
> 
> No revenge = you have no qualms about severing the tethers that bind you to a toxic person. You move on, free of the preoccupation of revenge, knowing it's a waste of good energy that could go to so many other, more worthy things. Rather than feel the need to have the last word, you leave it with the other party, so that as they watch you ride off into the distance, without a thought or care for them, they may choke upon it.










!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe you need a new PR consultant. Whatever you do, people who feel that they have a stake in the matter can and will call you vengeful at just about anything you do.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> STA. You want to hurt him verbally. It occurred to me that he has hurt you verbally. He is being a jack ass from all you have said but maybe his words are hitting their mark?
> 
> Is the reason his words hurt so much because he knows what you value about yourself and maybe, you have betrayed your own beliefs and some core principles?
> 
> ...


Yes, I think this is part of it, for sure. It's not all of it, because his betrayal also hurts as much as his words, but yes. He knows just how to hurt me with what he says because he knows my weak spots.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> * Being a confirmed and devout Christian male, I had to be gently reminded by my Methodist pastor that on the words of the Apostle Paul, "Do not take revenge, but leave room for God's wrath for it is written ~ Revenge is mine, sayeth the Lord ~ I will repay!"
> Romans 12:19.
> 
> Inasfar as what my rich, skanky XW had consciously chosen to do to me as her husband, and upon finally finding out the full truth of the matter in our post-separation phase, I wanted to exact revenge on her rich, skanky a$$. What better way than to tell her family who I had firmly believed had adopted me as one of their own.
> ...


I see a Christian counselor, and what you just wrote is exactly what we talked about yesterday, and these concepts are what I have to keep in mind. Maybe I won't even see the way God chooses to have my ex atone for all that he's done in this lifetime, and if not, by the time we all stand in judgment before God, I won't even care because I'll also be made whole. 

You've been through a lot, Arbitrator. Reading your post gives me encouragement.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Yes, I think this is part of it, for sure. It's not all of it, because his betrayal also hurts as much as his words, but yes. He knows just how to hurt me with what he says because he knows my weak spots.


Then part of your healing will be to honor your values and get back to your principles. Become the woman you are proud of again and much of your pain will fade, like winter being overcome by the spring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Then part of your healing will be to honor your values and get back to your principles. Become the woman you are proud of again and much of your pain will fade, like winter being overcome by the spring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Something definitely worth working through with my counselor moving forward. I'm actually surprised she hasn't already brought this up with me already.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Something else occurred to me.

If he says something that hurts you but is something that you don't like about yourself, just practice calmness and thank him.

Tell him that he is kind to remind you of a value system that you will be restored to and he never shared.

Practicing the 180 will help here as well.

Being cool and short with him will do wonders. Just necessary business and nothing else should be discussed with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Something definitely worth working through with my counselor moving forward. I'm actually surprised she hasn't already brought this up with me already.


Your counselor sounds good. I'm probably just older. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I work hard to hold my tongue when I desperately want to take a shot at my STBX or the OW. He opens the door quite often for me to do that by basically being the insensitive pr!ck he's always been and saying stupefyingly hurtful things implying how great his new relationship is. I'm always proud when I manage to keep my mouth shut, and regret it the few times I couldn't.

Attacking them in any way just makes him defensive and angry, and pushes him more in her direction.

Like Arb said, a Christian friend told me not to even wish harm on them - God will take care of that. Revenge will come in the form of him having to live with her day in and day out, and realizing too late that he traded down, lost a true friend, and deeply damaged his relationship with his son in the process. 

I'm letting go, and letting God and time take care of that.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

It's different for everyone, there are people who accept that bad thing has happened and try to move on as a way to get closure but for some people, doing things to people who've hurt the ones they love (especially children) is badly needed. Some believe that God or nature will take care of it but there are people who prefer to orchestrate it with their own hand, it gives them sense of peace i suppose. My ex-boss was exactly like this and in her day to day activity she was not a bad person. Lie about small things, get late to meetings, spill coffee in her papers (i was the idiot who did that) those are fine, she wouldn't get back at your for small things. But if it's something serious, she'd never forget and would make sure that whoever did it would never forget it too.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Daniel. said:


> It's different for everyone, there are people who accept that bad thing has happened and try to move on as a way to get closure but for some people, doing things to people who've hurt the ones they love (especially children) is badly needed. Some believe that God or nature will take care of it but *there are people who prefer to orchestrate it with their own hand, it gives them sense of peace i suppose*. My ex-boss was exactly like this and in her day to day activity she was not a bad person. Lie about small things, get late to meetings, spill coffee in her papers (i was the idiot who did that) those are fine, she wouldn't get back at your for small things. But if it's something serious, she'd never forget and would make sure that whoever did it would never forget it too.


My counselor and I came to the conclusion yesterday that it gives me a sense of control. I'm doing it to try to control his emotions in the way I THINK he should be feeling, but isn't, since I've lost all control and had little say in what was happening to my life.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> My counselor and I came to the conclusion yesterday that it gives me a sense of control. I'm doing it to try to control his emotions in the way I THINK he should be feeling, but isn't, since I've lost all control and had little say in what was happening to my life.


I agree with your counselor, think about yourself first. Stay true to yourself and don't let him change you even if the intend is to hurt him. If revenge is not your way then don't, i think the end goal is to feel peace and if keeping your head held high and walk away from it all is more of your type then do just that.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Sometimes the difference that separates the two groups is only a matter of time.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm not a big believer in karma. But I do think with our own character that we determine our own fate. So while I sometimes feel anger towards my STBXH for cheating, I think his weak character, and inability to remain faithful will eventually bring him unhappiness. I see it a little now when we talk - he knows he did something wrong and has to live with the weight of that. None of the women he cheated with are currently with him as far as I know. I guess I have reached a point where the sight of him kind of repulses me and reminds me what he did. So in a way, his being a repulsive person to someone who used to care about him is a bit of a revenge, don't you think? 

I will count as my ultimate revenge when I have a comfortable home set up for my son and me, when I'm happy at work and ready to start dating again. This will mean I'm happy, and ready to trust someone with my heart. I'm not there yet, but I have a feeling it will burn a little when he has to witness that. And I'm kind of looking forward to it. Mwahahaha.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think if you love yourself, you will just move on from him, OP. Just work on learning to love yourself, to value yourself.


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## toolforgrowth (Apr 24, 2012)

I focused on revenge for a little while with my xWW, but after a time it just became too much work. Far more work than I wanted to invest towards her. Because let's face it, you're not investing all that time and effort for yourself, you're doing it for THEM. And the question I have to ask is, "Why?" It's not like they're worth it or anything.

Last year my xWW asked me if I wanted to go with her to our daughter's school conference. I politely declined and scheduled my own meeting with the teacher. She threw little hissy fit about it, which I ignored.

But I had to ask myself why she cared so much? I was quite dispassionate throughout the whole exchange and just ignored her when she started complaining. I didn't get it at first, but then I did: I don't go out of my way to make her upset, or prevent her from living her life, because I just don't care. All I want is for her to go away. That's it.

I used to love her with all my heart. Now I'm just...meh. I can't bring myself to care anymore. What she does is her business. All I want is to live my life away from her...nothing else.

I think that's what bothers her the most. She can't elicit any sort of emotional response from me. She's been completely marginalized.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Being a Christian man I have struggled with this in many ways. I usually end up in a rage when I think of the OM, and it has no good effect on me. I also blame my WW but what is different is I see how it affects her, I don't see how the OM is doing. Thoughts of revenge early on helped me through some days, but now is hindering how I heal. I want revenge, I think I deserve to have revenge. I have struggled with my faith in The Lord, and therefore want to exact my revenge on the OM. 

So many times I think of beating the OM to an inch of his life, but what would I gain? He will heal, he will live his life again. What happens for me, does the rage and pain leave me? Most likely not. What was hardest for me to accept about the OM is infidelity has no justice. The laws are to weak, the consequences too little for the act. I scream for justice every day, but it will never come, at least not in my lifetime. It is unobtainable to me, justice will never be enacted towards the OM. Not for lack of will, not for lack of strength, but because justice simply can't be achieved. 

Infidelity leaves the BS wanting many things, needing many things, yet justice escapes. I blamed God for allowing my WW to be capable of infidelity, I blamed God for letting this happen to me. But The Lord asks that we live our life according to Him, and He gives us free will, free will to choose how we live. I'm still struggling in my faith, I'm still angry with The Lord, I'm angry there is no justice. 

With my WW I could not impose a worse punishment then what she imposes on herself. She is in pain every day for what she has done, I see this. I don't see the OM in pain, I don't see that the OM is feeling what I have felt. I never will. Accepting this about infidelity is difficult, not impossible but very difficult. I struggle with this still, but it continues to be a work in progress. 

So I take solace in these words:

If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "it is mine to avenge, I will repay," says The Lord.
On the contrary: 

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals onto his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. 

Romans 12:18-21
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

SecondTime'Round said:


> My counselor and I came to the conclusion yesterday that it gives me a sense of control. I'm doing it to try to control his emotions in the way I THINK he should be feeling, but isn't, since I've lost all control and had little say in what was happening to my life.


I agree also. It's very difficult to be hurt and not to want to hurt back. To just take it is not part of our basic makeup. 

As others have said, giving in to it might be satisfying immediately but you've only let yourself be effected by someone else. I've found it satisfying to behave in an unexpected way instead and enjoyed the confusion. I also tend, in the end, to be ruled by my head and so when I play the revenge thing out in a thought experiment it usually doesn't end well or get me anything other than that temporary satisfaction.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@SecondTime'Round 

You are going to probably throw up when I say this, but it's what I did to help get over the revenge feelings from my first marriage. My exH cheated on me multiple times in our marriage but I found out about them all-at-once (well, there was one I couldn't deny and then after that I just kept finding more and more...)

Anyway, like @arbitrator I consider myself a Christian and actually try to walk the walk versus just taking the "title," and the verse that really struck me was 1 Thessalonians 5:18: "In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." 

Well...I note that the verse says "In everything" not "In stuff you like.." or "in stuff that's easy to be grateful for..." but in EVERY THING. So to my mind that was all inclusive, including this disaster. I took it to mean that I should give thanks for the affairs, but honestly I did throw up when I thought about that. How in the WORLD could I possibly give * thanks * for all the destruction and hurt of an affair? 

I also note that it says "this is the will of God...concerning you" so I took that to mean "Hey --God wants YOU to do this, not just some miscellaneous first century Christians!" 

I was pretty convinced God wanted me to be thankful and in real life I just wasn't, so I started off praying to be WILLING to be thankful. And I started off studying about those first century Christians. You know what I discovered? Pretty much every one of them was persecuted, tortured, raped, beatten, put in prison--truly horrible stuff! And pretty much every one of them was thankful and even prayed for the people torturing them! How did they do that?

Well I decided that even if my feelings didn't "feel" like being thankful, it didn't say "In everything FEEL thankful..." it said "In everything GIVE thanks..." so I decided to DO what I was commanded to do whether my "feelings" agreed or not. Just do it! 

So I did. I just did it. I started off praying for easy stuff, like thanking God for roof over our head, clothes on our back, food in our stomach. I could do that. Then I prayed about thanking God for learning I could depend on HIM. I prayed thanking God for learning I am precious and valuable to HIM. I prayed and thanked God for renewing our relationship (God's and mine). I prayed and thanked God for the way He provided when I was scared and unsure. And gradually I did begin to see that there were several things for which I truly could be thankful and eventually I did even feel somewhat thankful.

Now, was I over-the-top WOOHOO grateful? No. But what I learned is that I don't have to be ruled by my feelings--sometimes I just have to do what God says and by DOING it, I heal. 

Again, I realize this seems and sounds extremely counter-intuitive, but one thing I learned over the course of life is that sometimes what we've been doing is just NOT WORKING...so we have to do something different. This is VERY different, but it really helped me to get the focus off all the hurtful behavior of a person stuck in sin (my exH) and put the focus on God and obeying Him. It was a challenge but it changed my perspective and then ended up changing ME because I healed by not always looking at the hurt and sin.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> My IC also told me today she thinks I need to go away by myself for a day or two and spend some time alone, seriously allowing myself to grieve . That may be a whole 'nother issue/post.


I recommend one of the Hedonism Resorts. :wink2:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Affaircare, you did end up divorcing that first husband, right?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Affaircare said:


> @SecondTime'Round
> 
> You are going to probably throw up when I say this, but it's what I did to help get over the revenge feelings from my first marriage. My exH cheated on me multiple times in our marriage but I found out about them all-at-once (well, there was one I couldn't deny and then after that I just kept finding more and more...)
> 
> ...


That doesn't make me throw up at all @Affaircare. I loved it and feel like I just had my devotions for the day (night) . Thanks so much for that. I'm going to read it over and over. It doesn't sound counter-intuitive to me at all, and is, in fact, exactly the type of guidance I am seeking.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> I recommend one of the Hedonism Resorts. :wink2:


Haha! I don't think that's what she had in mind .


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> I recommend one of the Hedonism Resorts. :wink2:


> You are just the BEST @bandit.45


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

jld said:


> Affaircare, you did end up divorcing that first husband, right?


[small threadjack]
@jld, 

Yep, divorced hubby#1 who had at many PAs that I could prove and several more EA-types that I suspected but just got sick of counting. 

Dear Hubby #2 is the one I'm with now! LOVE him!! :x I was the unfaithful one with Dear Hubby #2 and now I get to spend my whole life proving to him he was smart to let me have a second chance! 
[/small threadjack]


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