# Lap Dance x3 with Touching and MARRIED



## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

My husband recently went away for business and I exposed him in a series of lies that have completely changed my feelings towards him.
Backstory: friends 20+ years, living together for 10, children together (under 7), married just a year and a half ago.
We have kept the children home doing online learning with the pandemic which has been utterly taxing. Protecting our small family and his immune compromised parents has been priority. Fast forward to last week. He went away for business. I got a message from him around 3am. He was obviously drunk. I didn’t reply but was irked he would be out doing whatever he was doing until 3am. Work? Understandable. Dinner? Understandable. Out to 3am? Not ok. Not under these circumstances. The next day he told me he was at a bar. He didn’t elaborate but I trusted him and I didn’t question the type of bar. Next night, he goes out for dinner. At 11pm I text to ask how dinner was. His reply - the owner of the company he works for lost his dad the night before. Umm weird. At this point I’m suspicious about something. I don’t know what. I did not assume he had been unfaithful. I just sensed something weird. Maybe even homoerotic relations with his boss (there was a hug between the two described). Conversations were short. I wasn’t pleased. I asked before he return home the next day, he do a covid test. We left it at that. He said he should be back around dinner. Dinner rolls around and no word from him. I’m still annoyed by the poor choices he made so I didn’t call to ask where he was. I looked at our banking info to see if he’s paid the toll for the border (I know he pays this by card). I see “redacted gentlemens club”. Except the name wasn’t a dead give away, I was stupid enough to think he maybe bought me lingerie. So to satiate curiosity, I googled the name of the ‘lingerie store/gentlemens club’. I was shocked. We have a rule. You can go and you can watch (he does for business, I’m not interested at all) but I wouldn’t have expected this in a pandemic. 
Later, I start finding out bits and pieces. He had a lapdance. Nope. He had three lapdances. He also admitted to touching her breasts and butt (I don’t believe this is where is ended - why stop at three? He claims he didn’t ejaculate). He hasn’t been transparent. He’s tried projecting his guilt back on me. I’m stunned. My confidence just shattered. I don’t know how to pickup the pieces.
We’re starting individual therapy for the sake of the children. This was my clear red line and he crossed it. On purpose. He made numerous choices and negated any responsibility as a wife and father. 
How do I put myself back together? Right now I want to hide in the closet for the foreseeable future. I’m just shattered? What rules do/did your partners have about this?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For us any sort of strip clubs or lap dances etc are a complete no no. Completely out of bounds.
It's cheating and I have to wonder if it's happened before if he goes away for business a lot. 
I can understand that you want to try and work on the marriage for the children but could you trust him again if he went away?

I am really not sure what individual therapy will do for him, he clearly has different standards than you do.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him. I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Agree with Diana on this one. If my boss told me I had to go because of such and so client I would quit right then and get a different job.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him. I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.


Do you think he has done this before? You say that you have a rule of look don't touch, does that mean he goes to strip clubs with your blessing?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

I know the indurty he works in is an “old boys club”. He doesn’t go otherwise. I do not trust he has not done this before now. He was in Vegas with the same work group just months before. I suspect he went this time because he had fun last time. This wasn’t his conference to attend.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agree with Diana on this one. If my boss told me I had to go because of such and so client I would quit right then and get a different job.


Yes, at the VERY LEAST a call home to explain the plans (provided we hadn’t just kept the kids home with covid raging). The expectations would always be no touch. He got three. That I know of. Why? Why 3? I’m torturing myself with questions. It’s gross.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Yes, at the VERY LEAST a call home to explain the plans (provided we hadn’t just kept the kids home with covid raging). The expectations would always be no touch. He got three. That I know of. Why? Why 3? I’m torturing myself with questions. It’s gross.


I wouldn’t even bother. When strip clubs have come up at work I just tell them to go and have fun. When the, “Have fun being gay!” “No it’s female strippers, you don’t have to worry cake boy!” and all other kinds of nonsense starts I would tell them to have fun paying alimony for nothing.

If my boss really insisted because a client demanded it I’d just quit and get a different job.

I think the guys who go for work really want to go.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him. I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.


It's her job to allow it. She's a hooker. Your husband cheated, I don't blame you for being disgusted. He made a complete mockery of your marriage vows. I don't believe for ONE second that ANY boss says "you have to go" and they certainly would never force anyone to get a lap dance. This is for sure not the first time and it won't be the last. I'm so, so sorry.

The most important thing for you to know is this is NOT YOUR FAULT. He's a liar. He married you and said he loved you and lied. You've done nothing wrong, you were tricked.

Do you have someplace safe you can go? Remember, your children will learn how marriage works from the two of you. What he is teaching them is that fidelity is only for women and men can do whatever, whenever, however and with whomever. He's not a father.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Thank you. Not right now no. I’m under the same roof with him. He’s just respecting my space. It’s the least he can do.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Thank you. Not right now no. I’m under the same roof with him. He’s just respecting my space. It’s the least he can do.


Oh my gosh you poor thing. I'm so so so sorry. You must be heartbroken. What a horrible person he is to have done this to you. Can he not go stay with one of his friends? You shouldn't have to be around him.

You should probably make an appointment to get tested for STDs as soon as possible. Some of them are dangerous if untreated.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don't believe for ONE second that ANY boss says "you have to go" and they certainly would never force anyone to get a lap dance. This is for sure not the first time and it won't be the last. I'm so, so sorry.


It depends on the industry. Mine is pretty wild with crazy inappropriate things.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him. I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.


I can understand why. The fact that he isn’t being transparent would make me even more angry.
The fact that he touched her - and blameshifting - would be a deal breaker.
The fact that he was up and drunk at 3am - would make me more than raise an eyebrow.

yep, I don’t blame you… I would be done - based on no trust and complete disrespect.

you can’t teach him how to be a decent person. Either he is or he isn’t. And what a person does when we aren’t looking means everything. He failed all the way around. These are HIS issues, not yours.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Thank you. Not right now no. I’m under the same roof with him. He’s just respecting my space. It’s the least he can do.


Bit confused. So from what you said you are ok with him going to strip clubs and having lap dances as long as there is no touching???


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> It depends on the industry. Mine is pretty wild with crazy inappropriate things.


Not a good one to be in then really. Good that you go against the flow.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It depends on the industry. Mine is pretty wild with crazy inappropriate things.


I was in college athletics and oil and gas. Trust me, I know from boys clubs, and I know from unfaithful husbands. No one is forced. Teased, but not forced.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Bit confused. So from what you said you are ok with him going to strip clubs and having lap dances as long as there is no touching???


Men lie all the time and say there's no touching in strip clubs. They will lie and say "she's just dancing in front of me and I'm not allowed to touch her." What is actually happening is he is holding his hands to the side while she rubs him off with her breasts pressed against his face. He usually will fondle her breasts if she says it's ok. I'm sure when he was lying about other things, he told the OP that "nothing happens." It's all part of the "bro code."


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Don’t blame you for being upset. I’d keep my distance too and focus on the kids. Therapy may help you, but therapy doesn’t cure character flaws, as is the case with your husband. It’s hard to say why your husband couldn’t just say no to his colleagues. If that would cost him his job, he’d have a lawsuit. He should look for a different employer as a first step, one that promotes a healthy environment.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's her job to allow it. She's a hooker. Your husband cheated, I don't blame you for being disgusted. He made a complete mockery of your marriage vows. I don't believe for ONE second that ANY boss says "you have to go" and they certainly would never force anyone to get a lap dance. This is for sure not the first time and it won't be the last. I'm so, so sorry.
> 
> The most important thing for you to know is this is NOT YOUR FAULT. He's a liar. He married you and said he loved you and lied. You've done nothing wrong, you were tricked.
> *
> Do you have someplace safe you can go? *Remember, your children will learn how marriage works from the two of you. What he is teaching them is that fidelity is only for women and men can do whatever, whenever, however and with whomever. He's not a father.


what? That’s crazy.
If all the idiot did was get a lap dance……. 
divorceable offense I doubt. If he’s done lots more and just got caught, yeah. It showing up on a CC? Either he’s an idiot or he’s not doing that regularly and it’s a one off.
I’d be pissed, too OP. But I think it’s fixable and if that’s all he did, forgiveable. 

just my opinion. I can understand why you’re terribly hurt. But I don’t see that as an affair but definitely lousy behavior. The combo of getting terribly drunk one night and doing strip clubs the next…… looks pretty bad. Probably papers would be a justifiable reality check and without completely contrite behavior on his part, make good on the divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Men lie all the time and say there's no touching in strip clubs. They will lie and say "she's just dancing in front of me and I'm not allowed to touch her." What is actually happening is he is holding his hands to the side while she rubs him off with her breasts pressed against his face. He usually will fondle her breasts if she says it's ok. I'm sure when he was lying about other things, he told the OP that "nothing happens." It's all part of the "bro code."


Was just wondering where ops boundaries are about this as it's not that clear from the posts.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> what? That’s crazy.
> If all the idiot did was get a lap dance…….
> divorceable offense I doubt. If he’s done lots more and just got caught, yeah. It showing up on a CC? Either he’s an idiot or he’s not doing that regularly and it’s a one off.
> I’d be pissed, too OP. But I think it’s fixable and if that’s all he did, forgiveable.
> ...


Agree to disagree. The credit card means he's done this and gotten away with it so many times that he's gotten careless.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

How much was charged to the card? That may indicate what he paid for.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Was just wondering where ops boundaries are about this as it's not that clear from the posts.


I bet she had boundaries that were based on lies. He said, “nothing happens” and she believed him. What kind of man chooses a hooker over his children? Ugh.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was in college athletics and oil and gas. Trust me, I know from boys clubs, and I know from unfaithful husbands. No one is forced. Teased, but not forced.


So very very true. He made choices. Multiple choices. We meant nothing to him.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> How much was charged to the card? That may indicate what he paid for.


He had cash and charged $60+ USD to the card and he had the card with MY NAME ON IT. 😡


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> .....Backstory: *friends 20+ years, living together for 10, children together (under 7), married just a year and a half ago.*
> ......I looked at our banking info to see if he’s paid the toll for the border (I know he pays this by card). I see ‘lingerie store/gentlemens club’. I was shocked. *We have a rule. You can go and you can watch (he does for business,* ....... *He had three lapdances. He also admitted to touching her breasts and butt* (I don’t believe this is where is ended - why stop at three? *He claims he didn’t ejaculate*)......*I’m stunned. My confidence just shattered. I don’t know how to pickup the pieces.
> 
> We’re starting individual therapy for the sake of the children*.





Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. *He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him.* I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.





Jane Doe 82 said:


> *I know the indurty he works in is an “old boys club”. He doesn’t go otherwise*. I do not trust he has not done this before now. He was in Vegas with the same work group just months before. *I suspect he went this time because he had fun last time.* This wasn’t his conference to attend.





Jane Doe 82 said:


> Yes, at the VERY LEAST a call home to explain the plans (provided we hadn’t just kept the kids home with covid raging). *The expectations would always be no touch. He got three*. That I know of. Why? Why 3? I’m torturing myself with questions. It’s gross.


First of all I am sorry you have been hurt by your H. Personally, I am surprised in this day and age that any business would allow such trips to a strip club on work trips. To me this indicates a hostile work environment to women and a bad corporate culture and a "boss" who knows nothing of modern HR related laws. You H would benefit from leaving such a work environment before he gets involved with some lawsuit.

The second point I would like to make is that you and your H have known each other for a very long time, but just got married. It makes me wonder if he had some commitment issues toward marriage? You indicated that you lived together for 10 years and had children before you recently got married. Is he perhaps not the marrying kind of guy? Is he fully committed to your marriage and the concept of marriage?

The next observation I have is that you and your H (according to you) have a "rule" where he can go to strip clubs and he can watch, but not touch. I think that is a very bad rule to have. Let me explain why. The women who work at strip clubs make most of their money from selling private dances. To make a certain minimum financial living, they must become very good at reading men and their weaknesses. They know how to tease men and entice men with the simulated intercourse of a lap dance. Their perspective is that these men are just a source of money and that saying or doing anything is fair game to extract money from them. I am certain that she made it clear to your H that his hands on her were just fine with her, especially if he tipped well. Your husband's excuse that he didn't ejaculate, is beyond horrific, insulting, and disgusting. He is no hero for that as you well no.

Based on the feelings of betrayal you have expressed, I think that starting some individual therapy on your part is a very good idea. Implicit in what you said about doing it for the sake of your children, you may be considering trying to save your marriage. I think that is admirable, but he needs to commit to the marriage and repairing it. Again, considering how long you have known him, lived within and how recent you were married, I really wonder about his commitment to marriage with you.

If at some point you decide you are at a point to try to work together at saving your marriage, I think couples counseling would be more effective than individual counseling (once you have worked through some of your anger and betrayal issues).

If there is a saving grace, it is that he did not have a romantic physical affair with another woman. He probably had no romantic feelings for the stripper. Even if he threw himself at her, she would have nothing to do with him once she had emptied his wallet. He probably knows that. I would suspect that in marriage counseling you will find out that there are more problems with your marriage than just his drinking at a strip club and doing something incredibly stupid. If you do couples counseling, make sure you explicitly spell out boundaries. The rule you have about allowing him to go and watch should be changed to "you don't go or do anything with another woman under any circumstances.

Good luck.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> If there is a saving grace, it is that he did not have a romantic physical affair with another woman. He probably had no romantic feelings for the stripper.


In other words, “it didn’t mean anything, it’s different with you cause I luuurve you.” The clarion call of serial cheaters. I assume you’d be fine if your wife rubbed her naked body all over another man as long as it “didn’t mean anything?” Cause she loves you so it’s different. 

Thankfully the OP seems too smart to listen to this terrible, dismissive advice.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Jane Doe 82 You said he tried to deflect his guilt on to you. How did he do this? Why did he do this?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Young at Heart said:


> First of all I am sorry you have been hurt by your H. Personally, I am surprised in this day and age that any business would allow such trips to a strip club on work trips. To me this indicates a hostile work environment to women and a bad corporate culture and a "boss" who knows nothing of modern HR related laws. You H would benefit from leaving such a work environment before he gets involved with some lawsuit.
> 
> The second point I would like to make is that you and your H have known each other for a very long time, but just got married. It makes me wonder if he had some commitment issues toward marriage? You indicated that you lived together for 10 years and had children before you recently got married. Is he perhaps not the marrying kind of guy? Is he fully committed to your marriage and the concept of marriage?
> 
> ...


I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your reply. There have been long standing issues. I guess I denied myself the reality because I wanted the family for the childrens sake. I do have counselling/therapy lined up for myself. I’ve done the same for my children. I’ve been very careful about what I’ve said to them. All they know is that he did something he knew he shouldn’t have and my feelings are hurt. It will take me time. They needed to have some idea what was happening if we tried to parent under the same roof. I cannot not pretend but I can be civil and if done properly, it can be a lesson for them. They’re coping well thus far. They know we both love them.
As for me, I’m checked out. This was the final straw. I’m solely focused on my recovery to get on my feet for the children. We’re not even spending time together here. I explained the conversations are limited to day to day life and nothing to do with this. I have major digesting to do and I can’t even look at him right now. I asked him to remove his ring. I’m just so far out after this. I’m devastated and I feel disgusting myself.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> @Jane Doe 82 You said he tried to deflect his guilt on to you. How did he do this? Why did he do this?


Well, I called him out and said I was mad. His first reply was “you always do this, it’s so tiring”. He often disregards our feelings when he travels. I haven’t been on a date night in 6 years. I don’t leave the house. He gets put in a penthouse suite at the Venetian and then rubs it in my face. That hurts.
I told him he pulled the rig out from under me with this. That I trusted him (obviously really blindly/stupidly). His reply this time “you pulled the rug out from under yourself”. How? I didn’t cheat. It’s never crossed my mind! I don’t go to strip clubs! 
There are countless other examples. He’s cut off my access to our finances. He claims he’s making changes. He’s just emotionally abusive. It’s so hard to leave because I’ve been home for 7 years. I gave up my corporate career to raise our babies. I have no income, no relevant skills anymore. No assets, I spent my inheritance paying off our debts from college, visa etc. 

I’m paying the price for living in denial. I should have expected this.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> In other words, “it didn’t mean anything, it’s different with you cause I luuurve you.” The clarion call of serial cheaters. I assume you’d be fine if your wife rubbed her naked body all over another man as long as it “didn’t mean anything?” Cause she loves you so it’s different.
> 
> Thankfully the OP seems too smart to listen to this terrible, dismissive advice.


I agree with many of their other points. And grossly, the thought that this wasn’t a long standing emotional affair does make it a hair easier to deal with but by no means is it better. That said, He made decisions. Drunk or not. The drunkenness excuse will never fly. I’ve been that drunk and I knew better.


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## One Eighty (Apr 30, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t want to work on it. I’m gutted. This was a HUGE no no. I don’t trust I am getting all the details as a week later, I’m still being told things that crush me. He touched her. She allowed it. What else??? I despise him. I can’t live in my own skin right now. I feel disgusting. He disgusts me.


For me, this is all you need to know.

First off, I've been to strip clubs. I've had lap dances. I've touched the provider. (Big no. no. They could get fired. So they don't encourage that.) Through all this, being a high sex drive guy, I never got aroused. It was just for fun. Like a bucket list kind of thing. I wasn't married.

So I can imagine your H was not aroused much less had an organism. Very hard to get away within a strip club! I'd say impossible.

So why do I say enough is enough here? You said he touched her.

My ex wife had sex and got pregnant by her affair partner. But you know what made me divorce her? It was the fact that she let him touch her, wherever he wanted. That was it for me. The sex, the pregnancy, irrelevant. If he could come inside her and get her pregnant without touching her or seeing her naked, I'd still be married.

He touched her.

Get rid of the guy. You will never feel the same with him. It is irreparable.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Contact a lawyer ASAP he isn’t allowed to cut you off from all funds.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

One Eighty said:


> For me, this is all you need to know.
> 
> First off, I've been to strip clubs. I've had lap dances. I've touched the provider. (Big no. no. They could get fired. So they don't encourage that.) Through all this, being a high sex drive guy, I never got aroused. It was just for fun. Like a bucket list kind of thing. I wasn't married.
> 
> ...


I’m so sorry. I know exactly the pain that causes. He would have been aroused undoubtedly. She invited his hands to her body. He willingly touched her. He paid to touch her. It’s a feeling I fear I’ll never shake.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Contact a lawyer ASAP he isn’t allowed to cut you off from all funds.


I know. I just don’t have means for a lawyer. I need legal aid. The only money deposited to my account is the childrens gov credit.
It’s a really ****ty situation. My brain can’t anymore. I’m just so wiped.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I know. I just don’t have means for a lawyer. I need legal aid. The only money deposited to my account is the childrens gov credit.
> It’s a really ****ty situation. My brain can’t anymore. I’m just so wiped.


He knew that, and he knew you’d be scared. He cheated. I’m sure there are pictures. Talk to a lawyer. He shouldn’t be around children, he’s not fit to be a father. Do you have a relationship with your parents? Would they support you since he’s been unfaithful?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Well, I called him out and said I was mad. His first reply was “you always do this, it’s so tiring”. He often disregards our feelings when he travels. I haven’t been on a date night in 6 years. I don’t leave the house. He gets put in a penthouse suite at the Venetian and then rubs it in my face. That hurts.
> I told him he pulled the rig out from under me with this. That I trusted him (obviously really blindly/stupidly). His reply this time “you pulled the rug out from under yourself”. How? I didn’t cheat. It’s never crossed my mind! I don’t go to strip clubs!
> There are countless other examples. He’s cut off my access to our finances. He claims he’s making changes. He’s just emotionally abusive. It’s so hard to leave because I’ve been home for 7 years. I gave up my corporate career to raise our babies. I have no income, no relevant skills anymore. No assets, I spent my inheritance paying off our debts from college, visa etc.
> 
> I’m paying the price for living in denial. I should have expected this.


We have a Canadian member who specialises in helping people deal with finances. @Taxman do you have any ideas for Jane?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He knew that, and he knew you’d be scared. He cheated. I’m sure there are pictures. Talk to a lawyer. He shouldn’t be around children, he’s not fit to be a father. Do you have a relationship with your parents? Would they support you since he’s been unfaithful?


I have nothing. I have isolated myself in this relationship. My mother passed when I was a child, my dad remarried and gave me up for her. It’s on me. And I can do this. It’s just going to take time. I’ve been through lots of therapy and am very self aware.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I know. I just don’t have means for a lawyer. I need legal aid. The only money deposited to my account is the childrens gov credit.
> It’s a really ****ty situation. My brain can’t anymore. I’m just so wiped.








Legal Aid Program


Department of Justice Canada’s Internet site




www.justice.gc.ca




@Jane Doe 82 hopefully the above link will be of help.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I have nothing. I have isolated myself in this relationship. My mother passed when I was a child, my dad remarried and gave me up for her. It’s on me. And I can do this. It’s just going to take time. I’ve been through lots of therapy and am very self aware.


I am so proud of you. Yes you can do this. Don’t underestimate yourself, let him do that and watch how foolish he looks for doing it. You remember that you are not alone. There are so many women out here who will cheer you on and believe in you. You have done nothing but be a good wife and mother and all you need is to have faith that we are all on your side and you are so, so strong. He can’t take you down, he’s weak and pathetic. The only place he has in your life is in the rear view mirror, take your babies and show them what their mommy is made of. ❤


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

These strip club women…. They definitely don’t mind some touching and probably some sucking breast


Anastasia6 said:


> Contact a lawyer ASAP he isn’t allowed to cut you off from all funds.


Actually he can. They’re married


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> These strip club women…. They definitely don’t mind some touching and probably some sucking breast
> 
> Actually he can. They’re married


I’m not mad at you. I’m mad that a man can cheat on his wife and then take away all the money and make her either endure being humiliated over and over or live in poverty with her children. I honestly would give her a couple of my paychecks to get her through if I could. Never EVER quit your job.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Jane. you need to have a consult with a lawyer. There are specialists, that work exclusively in family law. Beyond the tax regieme, this is a civil matter, and a lawyer can tell you your rights in this situation.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Thank you so so much 🤗


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Taxman said:


> Jane. you need to have a consult with a lawyer. There are specialists, that work exclusively in family law. Beyond the tax regieme, this is a civil matter, and a lawyer can tell you your rights in this situation.


Thank you! I took a look at the link. I will call Monday if they’re open (holiday?). It sounds like I could use some advice from the service before I apply directly online.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not mad at you. I’m mad that a man can cheat on his wife and then take away all the money and make her either endure being humiliated over and over or live in poverty with her children. I honestly would give her a couple of my paychecks to get her through if I could. Never EVER quit your job.


You are a gem of a human. I can and will get through this. Months from now, I expect to be updating with good news. I know it will take some time to get on my feet.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He shouldn’t be around children, he’s not fit to be a father. Do you have a relationship with your parents?


Excuse me? Unless I missed that part, I didn't read anything about him being some sort of child abuser, unfit to have them around. Him getting lap dances and being a **** to his wife got nothing to do with him being unfit to be a parent, Unless he is also abusive to his kids.

I just pisses me off to read men bashing blank statements like the one you made.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

These people are really firing you up


TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not mad at you. I’m mad that a man can cheat on his wife and then take away all the money and make her either endure being humiliated over and over or live in poverty with her children. I honestly would give her a couple of my paychecks to get her through if I could. Never EVER quit your job.


I don’t disagree with this at all. I’d like to hear all the other stuff he’s done.
I totally don’t fully get this. She lived with him for ten years and now this? Why marry him after living with him for ten years if he was so bad? Why let him go to strip clubs and get angry over a lap dance? If he’s at a strip club, it’s all the same. He’s lusting over some bodies…. But no way unless he’s a freak would he actually want to bang one of those trashy women.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Excuse me? Unless I missed that part, I didn't read anything about him being some sort of child abuser, unfit to have them around. Him getting lap dances and being a **** to his wife got nothing to do with him being unfit to be a parent, Unless he is also abusive to his kids.
> 
> I just pisses me off to read men bashing blank statements like the one you made.


He is not abusive and I have made every point of ensuring he knows he has access to them. When he was away, despite being angry, I still made a point of having the children call him. 
I agree, I can set an example for them and personal boundaries but he didn’t hurt them. In time they can make their own decisions based on their relationship with him. It won’t take long before he lets them down too. He’s an absent father. Babysitter type.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> These people are really firing you up
> 
> I don’t disagree with this at all. I’d like to hear all the other stuff he’s done.
> I totally don’t fully get this. She lived with him for ten years and now this? Why marry him after living with him for ten years if he was so bad? Why let him go to strip clubs and get angry over a lap dance? If he’s at a strip club, it’s all the same. He’s lusting over some bodies…. But no way unless he’s a freak would he actually want to bang one of those trashy women.


He was probably lying. Sadly I have seen this over and over. These boys pretend to be standup men and then you find this out after they convince their wives to quit their jobs. Makes me feel all murdery in my heart. My husband will beat them up if we ask him to. I hate when men take advantage of nice girls who trust too easily.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Jane:
Know that he cannot withhold support from dependent children. I have had several cases where the Province/civil authorities stepped in. We have the FRO (Family Responsibility Office ) which will enforce his support, or, (and I have encouraged this) they will pay the Xspouse/children, then garnishee the responsible party. (or sieze assets in extreme cases) We can take a significant part of the paycheque. As I said, your first stop is to a solicitor specializing in family law. See several, as the first consult, right up to signing an engagement letter is free. One of the nicer things in my province is that your lawyer may have to be paid by your ex. (Oh, do yourself a favour, and get copies of every bank statement, investment account, title to vehicle, copy of the P&S on your home and the deed if it is in your posession. Do you have a safety deposit box? Who has the key? Life insurance? You will need to provide the solicitor of choice with as complete a financial picture as you can.)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Surely he wasn’t such a good faker that there weren’t red flags for ten years. Op says there’s a laundry list. I’d be interested in the list. I didn’t go to strip joints while married, and not interested in them now, but a lap dance isn’t the end of the world to me. 

OP seems to have chosen to divorce the man and leave. I don’t know as I can blame the guy for protecting himself from having his own paycheck used against him.

Indeed he’s messed up and it may be a long string of mess ups and if so I hope she gets some justice. I’d just like to get the Paul Harvey on it.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> He is not abusive and I have made every point of ensuring he knows he has access to them. When he was away, despite being angry, I still made a point of having the children call him.
> I agree, I can set an example for them and personal boundaries but he didn’t hurt them. In time they can make their own decisions based on their relationship with him. It won’t take long before he lets them down too. He’s an absent father. Babysitter type.


It makes wonder sometimes why men that have not intentions in being involved with their children have them?

If he's an absent parent mind as well as soon as you're able dump him. It will make no difference anyways as far as the children are concerned.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> It makes wonder sometimes why men that have not intentions in being involved with their children have them?
> 
> If he's an absent parent mind as well as soon as you're able dump him. It will make no difference anyways as far as the children are concerned.


He didn’t plan to have children. The first was a weak pullout after a fight. The second he just decided to do his thing and I happened to be ovulating. Don’t get me wrong. I love my babies and always wanted children.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Regardless of any strip club activity he sounds like a ****.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> These people are really firing you up
> 
> I don’t disagree with this at all. I’d like to hear all the other stuff he’s done.
> I totally don’t fully get this. She lived with him for ten years and now this? Why marry him after living with him for ten years if he was so bad? Why let him go to strip clubs and get angry over a lap dance? If he’s at a strip club, it’s all the same. He’s lusting over some bodies…. But no way unless he’s a freak would he actually want to bang one of those trashy women.


You’re as delusional and disrespecting of boundaries as he is. 🙄


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> Regardless of any strip club activity he sounds like a ****.


You know he is. I’ve questioned myself in this relationship for years. This broke my limits and I see how much of a fool I’ve been. He’s a ….. but I’m stupid for letting it get here.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> These people are really firing you up
> 
> I don’t disagree with this at all. I’d like to hear all the other stuff he’s done.
> I totally don’t fully get this. She lived with him for ten years and now this? Why marry him after living with him for ten years if he was so bad? Why let him go to strip clubs and get angry over a lap dance? If he’s at a strip club, it’s all the same. He’s lusting over some bodies…. But no way unless he’s a freak would he actually want to bang one of those trashy women.


He DID bang one of those "trashy" women. You're fine with him cheating, would you be ok if your wife stripped and rubbed her naked body all over another guy?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> He is not abusive and I have made every point of ensuring he knows he has access to them. When he was away, despite being angry, I still made a point of having the children call him.
> I agree, I can set an example for them and personal boundaries but he didn’t hurt them. In time they can make their own decisions based on their relationship with him. It won’t take long before he lets them down too. He’s an absent father. Babysitter type.


He chose a hooker over his children. He's not a father.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Excuse me? Unless I missed that part, I didn't read anything about him being some sort of child abuser, unfit to have them around. Him getting lap dances and being a **** to his wife got nothing to do with him being unfit to be a parent, Unless he is also abusive to his kids.
> 
> I just pisses me off to read men bashing blank statements like the one you made.


Suddenly I'm a man hater because I believe men should respect their marriage vows. Says more about you than it does about me.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> These people are really firing you up
> 
> I don’t disagree with this at all. I’d like to hear all the other stuff he’s done.
> I totally don’t fully get this. She lived with him for ten years and now this? Why marry him after living with him for ten years if he was so bad? Why let him go to strip clubs and get angry over a lap dance? If he’s at a strip club, it’s all the same. He’s lusting over some bodies…. But no way unless he’s a freak would he actually want to bang one of those trashy women.


Because he cheated with her. You know perfectly well he ****ed that stripper, and many before her. He's never been faithful to her, he's been using her. He's a POS and I hope she is able to walk away and build a new life without him in it at all. For herself and her children.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Thank you. Not right now no. I’m under the same roof with him. He’s just respecting my space. It’s the least he can do.


Don’t leave the home.

Make him sleep on the couch or spare room.

Sit down and tell the kids that he did something that really hurt your feelings. Just make it age appropriate. That way they are not guessing about what is going on.

Find the best divorce lawyer in your area. Then make appointments with the next four and do a free consultation so you husband can’t use them.

Love on your kids and let them love on you.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He chose a hooker over his children. He's not a father.


Yes I agree. He wants 50/50 (in the fleeting moments he realizes I’m done). But he genuinely thinks he can recover. I’m scared to present papers because I know that will be game over and all civility will be lost. He isn’t remorseful, he’s guilty.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Because he cheated with her. You know perfectly well he ****ed that stripper, and many before her. He's never been faithful to her, he's been using her. He's a POS and I hope she is able to walk away and build a new life without him in it at all. For herself and her children.


I doubt that he had sex with the stripper. Unless it was a private dance that cost a couple hundred (just guessing at a low end figure).


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

QUOTE="TexasMom1216, post: 20515027, member: 353063"]
He DID bang one of those "trashy" women.
[/QUOTE]

There you go again.
Again, unless I missed it, you are making assertions of which you have no proof of.

This is what OP said:



Jane Doe 82 said:


> He also admitted to touching her breasts and butt (I don’t believe this is where is ended - why stop at three? He claims he didn’t ejaculate)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He chose a hooker over his children. He's not a father.


So a wife that chooses her affair partner over her husband and kids should lose custody as well?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> QUOTE="TexasMom1216, post: 20515027, member: 353063"]
> He DID bang one of those "trashy" women.


There you go again.
Again, unless I missed it, you are making assertions of which you have no proof of.

This is what OP said:
[/QUOTE]
No banging…that I know of. But frankly once you touch another woman in an erotic manner who isn’t your wife - it might as well have been intercourse.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> I doubt that he had sex with the stripper. Unless it was a private dance that cost a couple hundred (just guessing at a low end figure).


You’re being naive. It’s not a criticism.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> So a wife that chooses her affair partner over her husband and kids should lose custody as well?


Yes.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> So a wife that chooses her affair partner over her husband and kids should lose custody as well?


If she’s a ****ty parent she should have less time. It’s all about the children. My childrens father is clueless when it comes to raising children.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There is a big difference between a stripper and a hooker. Especially in a club.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yes.


Ok


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Don’t leave the home.
> 
> Make him sleep on the couch or spare room.
> 
> ...


Doing and or have done all of the above. He has allowed me to take the master bedroom. I had a good heart to heart with the children and asked he do the same. They know their father loves them and I love them. They understand he broke a promise to me and that I’m sad and hurt. But that it’s okay and that it’s something between he and I. Not them. We love them the same and we want them to have the sense of security to be able to speak to us either of us without reservation. It’s taking every ounce of everything I have. And then some.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Doing and or have done all of the above. He has allowed me to take the master bedroom. I had a good heart to heart with the children and asked he do the same. They know their father loves them and I love them. They understand he broke a promise to me and that I’m sad and hurt. But that it’s okay and that it’s something between he and I. Not them. We love them the same and we want them to have the sense of security to be able to speak to us either of us without reservation. It’s taking every ounce of everything I have. And then some.


You are not alone.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I've lost my way in this thread lol so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but was your husband remorseful?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

He crossed the boundaries for the marriage that OP made clear.

Groping breast of a stripper isn’t having sex. It is crossing the line that OP set.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> There is a big difference between a stripper and a hooker. Especially in a club.


I don’t dispute that. He paid for three dances back to back. He was unapologetic. He told me days later that touching was allowed (and encouraged). In discussing what makes me most uncomfortable, he couldn’t deny it.
He says his pants didn’t come off and I want to believe him but I can’t. It’s as bad as it could be because he had the intent to do this, hide it and ugh. I just have no more words. I’m sickened by it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> There is a big difference between a stripper and a hooker. Especially in a club.


I believe the difference is $$$$$&


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> I've lost my way in this thread lol so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but was your husband remorseful?


OP said no. Just guilty.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You are not alone.


Thank you. ❤
I feel a bit alone. I can’t talk to my family about this much.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Thank you. ❤
> I feel a bit alone. I can’t talk to my family about this much.


I’m sorry you can’t talk to them. That is a flaw in them. They should support you and want you to be respected and loved. I’m so sorry this happened. I wish I could beat up your husband but I’m far away and probably too small.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ABHale said:


> OP said no. Just guilty.


Okay.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can make excuses for his cheating all day long. Doesn’t change what he did. I do not believe that women should have to accept that their husbands are having sex with other women. We will never agree on this.


You see, there you go again with your blinding biases.

I never, for one second have made any excuses for OP's husband, quite the contrary. 
But here you are once again twisting what I had only pointed out of your inaccurate statements.

I'm all behind OP. She deserves much better. It's the inaccurate crap you make about men that I'm pointing out.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I don’t dispute that. He paid for three dances back to back. He was unapologetic. He told me days later that touching was allowed (and encouraged). In discussing what makes me most uncomfortable, he couldn’t deny it.
> He says his pants didn’t come off and I want to believe him but I can’t. It’s as bad as it could be because he had the intent to do this, hide it and ugh. I just have no more words. I’m sickened by it.


Jane, you do what you need to do to heal and move on with your life. He is the one responsible for his actions and has to live with that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I believe the difference is $$$$$&


Not really, some strippers are full time students putting themselves through school for a better life. They are not out walking the streets for their pimp.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I am not saying there are no strippers that are hookers as well. But it is wrong to classify them all as that.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with Jane and her problems.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Rant, rave or ask for advice Jane. That is what this place is for.

Stay strong for you kids.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> Not really, some strippers are full time students putting themselves through school for a better life. They are not out walking the streets for their pimp.


And they really, really like you and want to date you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> You see, there you go again with your blinding biases.
> 
> I never, for one second have made any excuses for OP's husband, quite the contrary.
> But here you are once again twisting what I had only pointed out of your inaccurate statements.
> ...


What bias? He cheated on her. How is that ok? I have no “bias against men” (once again, if a man cheats and you point it out, you’re a “man hater”) but the OP’s husband was sexually involved with a woman not his wife. Would you be ok if your wife stripped naked and jacked off another guy? If not, then you’re a hypocrite. He lied to her, humiliated her, shamed her, broke her trust and abandoned his children for another woman. How is that ok?


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP, you said this was a clear red line for you and he crossed it.

What does a clear red line mean to you?

I'm not saying you have to divorce him as it's your life.

It seems as if this wasn't a clear red line for you.

I only bring this up for you to think about going forward.

See he knew this was a clear red line for you and he intentionally crossed it. He wasn't worried that you'd leave him over this.

He knew it really wasn't really a red line for you.

OP the two of you will discuss this in counseling of course, but why should he believe you regarding clear red lines you have for him going forward?

Clear red lines and ultimatums only work if one follows through.

Real boundaries are needed. You need to say what you mean and mean what you say.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Was just wondering where ops boundaries are about this as it's not that clear from the posts.


OP said it was a clear red line for her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

One Eighty said:


> For me, this is all you need to know.
> 
> First off, I've been to strip clubs. I've had lap dances. I've touched the provider. (Big no. no. They could get fired. So they don't encourage that.) Through all this, being a high sex drive guy, I never got aroused. It was just for fun. Like a bucket list kind of thing. I wasn't married.
> 
> ...


I can't see how having lap dances is ok but touching isnt??? Both are just as bad as each other.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP, you said this was a clear red line for you and he crossed it.
> 
> What does a clear red line mean to you?
> 
> ...


Agreed. I asked op if she was ok with him going to strip clubs and having lap dances but just not touching. 
To me they are all asking for trouble.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Rant, rave or ask for advice Jane. That is what this place is for.
> 
> Stay strong for you kids.





A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP, you said this was a clear red line for you and he crossed it.
> 
> What does a clear red line mean to you?
> 
> ...


Something to consider. I resent the reality of this comment right now but you’re right. I’m a pushover and he knew it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP said it was a clear red line for her.


Just trying to clarify if she was ok with strip clubs and lap dances but not touching. Don't think she has answered.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Just trying to clarify if she was ok with strip clubs and lap dances but not touching. Don't think she has answered.


Only okay with these things for work really. Rule has always been observed. Hands to yourself.
It’s not even a rule, it’s an expectation that was discussed a few times over the 10 years we’ve been together. He doesn’t go to them socially outside of work. He’s never away from home for any time for that to be possible.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

Definitely weird. But I'll be honest, there's a slippery slope here in which you're partly complicit. You said you allow him to go and watch, as he often goes for business purposes. So if he's out without you, it's easy for him to reason being there. As far as he goes though, I would say he's likely weak when it comes to this issue - meaning he won't be able to make the proper decision on his own. There can't be any mixed messaging, he'll need to know for sure that this bothers you and that it's not OK. I went to a strip club once in my whole life - way before I met my wife- and I gotta say it was pretty lame. Wasting money to see who knows what kind of woman, with questionable boobs and germs from who knows where, in a stinky room with a bunch of losers. My wife doesn't have to worry about that with me. If there was no sex of any form, why wouldn't you be able to work through it? I definitely understand the aspect of being out during a pandemic and everything that it entails. He should be aware of common sense decisions. But I revert back to the complicit part..I would sit down and lay out the real boundaries, (which is that you really don't want him going to the strip club), highlighting the exceptional times that we're in and see how he reacts. I would also say not to listen to women who won't point out what I'm pointing out to you - women seem to have an inherent lean towards blaming the man for as much as possible. From a man's perspective, it sounds like you both may be a little disconnected from the other. Him for not knowing that you would be bothered by what he did, and you for even letting on that it was OK in any form previously. If it's really that bad, just say no strip clubs. You be his stripper and he'll be running home to you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Music4Life said:


> Definitely weird. But I'll be honest, there's a slippery slope here in which you're partly complicit. You said you allow him to go and watch, as he often goes for business purposes. So if he's out without you, it's easy for him to reason being there. As far as he goes though, I would say he's likely weak when it comes to this issue - meaning he won't be able to make the proper decision on his own. There can't be any mixed messaging, he'll need to know for sure that this bothers you and that it's not OK. I went to a strip club once in my whole life - way before I met my wife- and I gotta say it was pretty lame. Wasting money to see who knows what kind of woman, with questionable boobs and germs from who knows where, in a stinky room with a bunch of losers. My wife doesn't have to worry about that with me. If there was no sex of any form, why wouldn't you be able to work through it? I definitely understand the aspect of being out during a pandemic and everything that it entails. He should be aware of common sense decisions. But I revert back to the complicit part..I would sit down and lay out the real boundaries, (which is that you really don't want him going to the strip club), highlighting the exceptional times that we're in and see how he reacts. I would also say not to listen to women who won't point out what I'm pointing out to you - women seem to have an inherent lean towards blaming the man for as much as possible. From a man's perspective, it sounds like you both may be a little disconnected from the other. Him for not knowing that you would be bothered by what he did, and you for even letting on that it was OK in any form previously. If it's really that bad, just say no strip clubs. You be his stripper and he'll be running home to you.


It wasn't just the strip clubs, it's being ok with the husband having lap dances. I can't get my head around that. Surely it's just one small step from that to touching? 
I would also suggest he leaves such a terrible job where these things are encouraged and look for something else.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I guess what I find odd about stories like this, is why do spouses need to spell out what should clearly be seen as inappropriate behavior? I have no desire to humiliate my husband or make him feel inferior, and he doesn't have any desire to do that to me. 

I get that everyone's marriages are different, but some of this should be common sense, imo. Her husband should have said no to the strip club invitation...he shouldn't want to go, he should have enough respect for his family to not want to put himself in these situations. I don't know, to me, it's not about what one ''can or can't do,'' it should just be that you don't want to do anything at all that would humiliate your spouse.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So really - between the charge and the cash - can you tell how much he likely spent?

either way he knew it was wrong because he tried hiding it from her.

there’s no way posters here can make her responsible for HIS behavior. He knew It was wrong - yet he did it anyway. It was his choice to disrespect and disregard his wife.

get to a solicitor - try to re establish a job and leave him in the rear view mirror.

if he not that keen on being a parent maybe you can request 100% time with the kids and just have him pay for them being with you.

be strong. Things will get better with time and effort to change things.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hmmm....I'm struck by the difference in responses posted this thread compared to this one: Religious wife at male strip club


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Hmmm....I'm struck by the difference in responses posted this thread compared to this one: Religious wife at male strip club


In what way different?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Its just very surprising to me that you are ok with a strip club and lap dance because surely these things often lead to more? To me isn't this like letting him play with fire and then being surprised that you got burnt? These things are all steps in the same direction it seems to me.


You’re not reading. I’m not okay with a lap dance. Hands off.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> I guess what I find odd about stories like this, is why do spouses need to spell out what should clearly be seen as inappropriate behavior? I have no desire to humiliate my husband or make him feel inferior, and he doesn't have any desire to do that to me.
> 
> I get that everyone's marriages are different, but some of this should be common sense, imo. Her husband should have said no to the strip club invitation...he shouldn't want to go, he should have enough respect for his family to not want to put himself in these situations. I don't know, to me, it's not about what one ''can or can't do,'' it should just be that you don't want to do anything at all that would humiliate your spouse.


Some people see nothing wrong with going to places like this sadly. The op and her husband are both ok with it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> You’re not reading. I’m not okay with a lap dance. Hands off.


Ok. You seemed to imply that it was him touching her that was the issue, not the lap dance itself.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Music4Life said:


> Definitely weird. But I'll be honest, there's a slippery slope here in which you're partly complicit. You said you allow him to go and watch, as he often goes for business purposes. So if he's out without you, it's easy for him to reason being there. As far as he goes though, I would say he's likely weak when it comes to this issue - meaning he won't be able to make the proper decision on his own. There can't be any mixed messaging, he'll need to know for sure that this bothers you and that it's not OK. I went to a strip club once in my whole life - way before I met my wife- and I gotta say it was pretty lame. Wasting money to see who knows what kind of woman, with questionable boobs and germs from who knows where, in a stinky room with a bunch of losers. My wife doesn't have to worry about that with me. If there was no sex of any form, why wouldn't you be able to work through it? I definitely understand the aspect of being out during a pandemic and everything that it entails. He should be aware of common sense decisions. But I revert back to the complicit part..I would sit down and lay out the real boundaries, (which is that you really don't want him going to the strip club), highlighting the exceptional times that we're in and see how he reacts. I would also say not to listen to women who won't point out what I'm pointing out to you - women seem to have an inherent lean towards blaming the man for as much as possible. From a man's perspective, it sounds like you both may be a little disconnected from the other. Him for not knowing that you would be bothered by what he did, and you for even letting on that it was OK in any form previously. If it's really that bad, just say no strip clubs. You be his stripper and he'll be running home to you.


We’re entirely disconnected. I wasn’t encouraging this. Let me be clear. Not at all. I don’t like the idea but as his wife and a woman, I don’t want to be controlling or insecure. If he must go for work (which is ridiculous in it self in 2022), then the rule is, you can look. I don’t want him going. I made a rule because he goes with business clients and colleagues. It is gross. I never should have been accepting but the terms were VERY clear.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> My husband recently went away for business and I exposed him in a series of lies that have completely changed my feelings towards him.
> Backstory: friends 20+ years, living together for 10, children together (under 7), married just a year and a half ago.
> We have kept the children home doing online learning with the pandemic which has been utterly taxing. Protecting our small family and his immune compromised parents has been priority. Fast forward to last week. He went away for business. I got a message from him around 3am. He was obviously drunk. I didn’t reply but was irked he would be out doing whatever he was doing until 3am. Work? Understandable. Dinner? Understandable. Out to 3am? Not ok. Not under these circumstances. The next day he told me he was at a bar. He didn’t elaborate but I trusted him and I didn’t question the type of bar. Next night, he goes out for dinner. At 11pm I text to ask how dinner was. His reply - the owner of the company he works for lost his dad the night before. Umm weird. At this point I’m suspicious about something. I don’t know what. I did not assume he had been unfaithful. I just sensed something weird. Maybe even homoerotic relations with his boss (there was a hug between the two described). Conversations were short. I wasn’t pleased. I asked before he return home the next day, he do a covid test. We left it at that. He said he should be back around dinner. Dinner rolls around and no word from him. I’m still annoyed by the poor choices he made so I didn’t call to ask where he was. I looked at our banking info to see if he’s paid the toll for the border (I know he pays this by card). I see “redacted gentlemens club”. Except the name wasn’t a dead give away, I was stupid enough to think he maybe bought me lingerie. So to satiate curiosity, I googled the name of the ‘lingerie store/gentlemens club’. I was shocked. We have a rule. You can go and you can watch (he does for business, I’m not interested at all) but I wouldn’t have expected this in a pandemic.
> Later, I start finding out bits and pieces. He had a lapdance. Nope. He had three lapdances. He also admitted to touching her breasts and butt (I don’t believe this is where is ended - why stop at three? He claims he didn’t ejaculate). He hasn’t been transparent. He’s tried projecting his guilt back on me. I’m stunned. My confidence just shattered. I don’t know how to pickup the pieces.
> ...


I shouldn’t have commented. I need to be clear. I don’t celebrate or encourage this. As a woman and wife I was trying to support my husband and not be insecure about our relationship. If he had to go for work, there was a rule. This is not something I would tolerate under any other circumstance and he knows that. To suggest I gave him this rope for hanging is outrageous and tells me I haven’t been clear about how I perceive this and what all had been discussed.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I’m a pushover and he knew it.


Yes



Anastasia6 said:


> Contact a lawyer ASAP


This

@Jane Doe 82 

He has no remorse and even worse cuts you off from your finances to punish you. This is very abusive.
To me, that means war. Does this restrict your access to legal counsel? Play it smart and do what you have to do, first step is finding your options.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> In other words, “it didn’t mean anything, it’s different with you cause I luuurve you.” The clarion call of serial cheaters. I assume you’d be fine if your wife rubbed her naked body all over another man as long as it “didn’t mean anything?” Cause she loves you so it’s different.
> 
> Thankfully the OP seems too smart to listen to this terrible, dismissive advice.


You really don't understand what I was saying do you? I think that you got emotionally triggered.

She said she was getting individual counseling "for the sake of her children." Think about that for a moment. She said she had a rule that he could go to strip clubs to watch. Think about that for a moment.

What the guy did was being a jerk and a poor excuse for a husband. If she wants to she can divorce him for what he did are for a just about any reason she wants.

Let's hypothesize that for some reason (for the sake of the children perhaps) she wants to try to rebuild the marriage. Under that assumption, which marriage would be harder to save: (1) a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman her husband worked with or knew socially versus (2) a simulated sex outing (lap dance) with a stripper? Remember, the OP gets to decide what the line is that triggers divorce.

My personal feeling is that both are a betrayal. Although I would point out that in her post she said she has told him he can go to strip clubs to watch, but not touch. To me that makes no sense, it is putting him into a temptation situation. It is like saying go out to the candy store and look and smell all the candy you want, but don't touch any of it. I would also point out that, a romantic and sexual affair with another woman would have involved a lot more sneaking around and active betrayal, plus he would have had to be weighing daily his love for his OW versus the love he has for his wife. 

I never said that one was OK because he still "loved his wife" while he disrespected their marriage and her by having a similated sex lap dance with a stripper. My comment was on which kind of cheating would be easier to forgive, should she for some reason want to forgive him and rebuild their marriage.

Again, assuming she wants to save the marriage (which she might not want to) I would think that forgiving her H getting 3 lap dances from a stripper versus falling in love with another woman would be easier to forgive.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> We’re entirely disconnected. I wasn’t encouraging this. Let me be clear. Not at all. I don’t like the idea but as his wife and a woman, I don’t want to be controlling or insecure. If he must go for work (which is ridiculous in it self in 2022), then the rule is, you can look. I don’t want him going. I made a rule because he goes with business clients and colleagues. It is gross. I never should have been accepting but the terms were VERY clear.


OK so he knew that ANY sort of lap dance was a no no even with no touching? Its just that from what you said in some of your posts it seemed to be the touching that was the issue not the lap dance itself. If he knows that a lap dance is a total no no then I can fully understand where you are coming from. If you are ok with a lap dance but no touching then not so much. Did you ever ask that he change jobs? Its really not controlling or insecure to expect our spouses not to go to these places. Did he go to these places before you got married?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> You really don't understand what I was saying do you? I think that you got emotionally triggered.
> 
> She said she was getting individual counseling "for the sake of her children." Think about that for a moment. She said she had a rule that he could go to strip clubs to watch. Think about that for a moment.
> 
> ...


My thoughts as well. Its like putting a cream cake in front of an overweight person and telling them they cant eat it. 
Not sure I agree about an affair being worse than what he did though. Both are cheating. Especially if lap dances themselves were a no no.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I believe the difference is $$$$$&


I disagree with you.

Actually a long long time ago when I was in college, I briefly knew a couple of strippers. For a portion of one year, I was the social chair of my house and arranged for mixers with sororities, keg parties, dances, and yes stag events with a few strippers. They did not want to have PIV or oral sex with men, the were afraid of getting diseases, they were concerned about their safety and felt stripping in a crowded area was much safer than prostitution, they were exhibitionists, and they thought that the money was easy and great. They did not view themselves as prostitutes. 

Their view was it much more like "dry humping" or slow dancing with a boyfriend in high school, than having naked sex.

From my perspective, they were much too manipulative and exhibitionist for me to have any interest in them. 

Of course a lot could have changed in the past 50+ years.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm with TexasMom - this wasn't lover boy's first rodeo.

It's just the first time he's been CAUGHT.

OP, stop being naive. If you think this was the first time he's done this - then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. It's more likely the first time he just got sloppy and put the charge on a credit card that *you* can see. I'd be willing to bet my right arm that Romeo probably has credit cards you don't even *KNOW* about.

And also like TexasMom, I don't believe for a second that all his secret monkey business is strictly lap dances over the years. Not even close.

He rents out the top suite at the Venetian in Vegas "for business" and you think he's reading his Bible up there in between taking meetings? Good lord.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'm with TexasMom - this wasn't lover boy's first rodeo.
> 
> It's just the first time he's been CAUGHT.
> 
> ...


If he has been going to these places for years then it's likely you are right.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And they really, really like you and want to date you.


I never heard anything like that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'm with TexasMom - this wasn't lover boy's first rodeo.
> 
> It's just the first time he's been CAUGHT.
> 
> ...


I think Jane said he has been to strip clubs for years with his colleagues. I believe this is the first time he was acting shady. She mentioned that the last one was in Vegas and he wasn’t scheduled to go to this one. Good possibility that something happened in Vegas.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Hows the sex life between you two?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not mad at you. I’m mad that a man can cheat on his wife and then take away all the money and make her either endure being humiliated over and over or live in poverty with her children. I honestly would give her a couple of my paychecks to get her through if I could. Never EVER quit your job.


Come on Tex, if OP divorces, she is going to get at *least* half of *everything*. Why are you implying that there are husbands out there committing adultery and then leaving the marriage with most of the assets and not having to pay childimony? That simply is not happening anywhere in the West.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What bias? He cheated on her. How is that ok? I have no “bias against men” (once again, if a man cheats and you point it out, you’re a “man hater”) but the OP’s husband was sexually involved with a woman not his wife. Would you be ok if your wife stripped naked and jacked off another guy? If not, then you’re a hypocrite. He lied to her, humiliated her, shamed her, broke her trust and abandoned his children for another woman. How is that ok?


This isn’t true. The last part just isn’t true. He never moved out. He never stopped supporting his kids. This is just a flat out lie.

He got a few lap dances and groped her breast. He crossed a boundary that Jane put in place knowing he goes to these places.

He didn’t have a emotional/physical affair that lasted a week to years. He didn’t even hire a hooker to cheat with.

What he did was wrong. It has more then likely ended his marriage.

What he didn’t do is what you’re accusing him of.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Come on Tex, if OP divorces, she is going to get at *least* half of *everything*. Why are you implying that there are husbands out there committing adultery and then leaving the marriage with most of the assets and not having to pay childimony? That simply is not happening anywhere in the West.


She is concerned about not having the money for a lawyer to get this started. You're right, in the end she will be ok, but retaining legal counsel when you have no funds (she indicated she has no control of the money) is going to be challenging. 

And if you read through some of the replies on this thread, there are those who feel he hasn't done anything "divorce worthy." Who's to say the court won't say the same thing?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> He didn’t plan to have children. The first was a weak pullout after a fight. The second *he just decided to do his thing* and I happened to be ovulating.


And you married him after this? I don't really get it. If he was such a nasty guy, why did you marry him? The way he reacted to your discovery is way over the top too. There's something I really don't understand going on here.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> What he didn’t do is what you’re accusing him of.


Agree to disagree. When you cheat on your spouse and you have children, you're not just cheating on the spouse, you're cheating on your family. This goes for men AND women. You are blowing up your marriage and abandoning not just your spouse but your entire family. If you love your family, you don't do things like this.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> We’re entirely disconnected. I wasn’t encouraging this. Let me be clear. Not at all. I don’t like the idea but as his wife and a woman, I don’t want to be controlling or insecure. If he must go for work (which is ridiculous in it self in 2022), then the rule is, you can look. I don’t want him going. I made a rule because he goes with business clients and colleagues. It is gross. I never should have been accepting but the terms were VERY clear.


If you haven’t seen it. The sexual exploitation of women is more prevalent today then any other time in history. With the smart phone and apps, young girls are being sexually exploited and are ok with it. When you tell kids to have sex just wear a condom, what did people expect to happen.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ABHale said:


> If you haven’t seen it. The sexual exploitation of women is more prevalent today then any other time in history. With the smart phone and apps, young girls are being sexually exploited and are ok with it. When you tell kids to have sex just wear a condom, what did people expect to happen.


I'm not sure what your point is here. What you say may be true about social media and apps, but to imply the wife is somehow responsible for her husband cheating is WAY off the mark.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I don’t understand why you’d go in unless you want to. You know there’s a nonzero chance of interacting with scantily clad women.

I went with some friends to a dive bar many years ago after work. We’re sitting there at the bar having beers and some lady walks up wearing almost nothing and she’s like, “Want to buy raffle tickets?” To the owner I’m like, “What the…” he says it is lingerie night. We just pounded the beers and left.

Either you’re good with lingerie night and anything that happens as a result of being there or you’re not. I was not, so I left.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

ABHale said:


> If you haven’t seen it. The sexual exploitation of women is more prevalent today then any other time in history. With the smart phone and apps, young girls are being sexually exploited and are ok with it. When you tell kids to have sex just wear a condom, what did people expect to happen.


Convincing women that they should be loose with their body as somehow empowering themselves has consequences. Having already cheapened the value of sex, the establishment power has been going full bore with the sexualizing of kids. It started over a decade ago with teens in middle and high schools but now they chasing down to even the kindergarten level.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Convincing women that they should be loose with their body as somehow empowering themselves has consequences. Having already cheapened the value of sex, the establishment power has been going full bore with the sexualizing of kids. It started over a decade ago with teens in middle and high schools but now they chasing down to even the kindergarten level.


This is off topic but very true. There is nothing empowering about being used by men, either as sex objects or as household labor or as a brood mare. The “sexual revolution” was a complete disaster, and women lost. 🥺


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> It wasn't just the strip clubs, it's being ok with the husband having lap dances. I can't get my head around that. Surely it's just one small step from that to touching?
> I would also suggest he leaves such a terrible job where these things are encouraged and look for something else.


Why be angry at my comment? I'm just telling the full truth. It's pretty pitiful all around, but she has played a role in the approval of being at strip clubs anyway. Why are we not allowed to say women may have done something wrong too? And at the end of the day, a lap dance still is not sex. It's dumb, I wouldn't do it, but my wife also didn't tell me it's ok if I go to strip clubs. She doesn't want to own any of her role.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What bias? He cheated on her. How is that ok? I have no “bias against men” (once again, if a man cheats and you point it out, you’re a “man hater”) but the OP’s husband was sexually involved with a woman not his wife. Would you be ok if your wife stripped naked and jacked off another guy? If not, then you’re a hypocrite. He lied to her, humiliated her, shamed her, broke her trust and abandoned his children for another woman. How is that ok?



Please, get it over with. Apparently you lack in reading comprehension. So I get that. 

OP is having a period in her life where her future is being weighed and balanced. She needs to be clear in her head as to what follows for the break up of her family, since her husband is such a piece of **** apparently. All you're doing is stoking the fires for her to dump the husband. Her husband getting a lap dance is the least of her problems (regardless of how she views it). OP being in a relationship with a man that has kept degrading and diminishing her throughout the relationship is what OP should be deeply concerned about. OP right now should be asking herself how a woman that once had a corporate job, became for all this years subjugated by such a man, so that if she decides to end the relationship this would never ever happen again if she gets into another relationship.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Music4Life said:


> Why be angry at my comment? I'm just telling the full truth. It's pretty pitiful all around, but she has played a role in the approval of being at strip clubs anyway. Why are we not allowed to say women may have done something wrong too? And at the end of the day, a lap dance still is not sex. It's dumb, I wouldn't do it, but my wife also didn't tell me it's ok if I go to strip clubs. She doesn't want to own any of her role.


Sorry I wasn't angry. I was sort of agreeing. A wife being ok with her husband going to strip clubs is a bad idea, I agree. 
I see a lap dance as sexual, especially if there is touching.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is off topic but very true. There is nothing empowering about being used by men, either as sex objects or as household labor or as a brood mare. The “sexual revolution” was a complete disaster, and women lost. 🥺


Off topic but I reckon women should empower themselves more akin to some women I met, the kind that achieves so much more than many others their age holding authority and commanding respect.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rob_1 said:


> OP being in a relationship with a man that has kept degrading and diminishing her throughout the relationship is what OP should be deeply concerned about. OP right now should be asking herself how a woman that once had a corporate job, became for all this years subjugated by such a man, so that if she decides to end the relationship this would never ever happen again if she gets into another relationship.


Thats what I'm currently concerned about too, he holds the money, he holds the power, and he has no quarms about abusing it to keep her subjicated to get what he wants.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I know. I just don’t have means for a lawyer. I need legal aid. The only money deposited to my account is the childrens gov credit.
> It’s a really ****ty situation. My brain can’t anymore. I’m just so wiped.


What about that credit card? Eventually whatever assets are sold in the divorce is how you will get your money back or half of it that you spend on the attorney. If there isn't enough money left on the credit card, call the credit card bank and ask them to increase your limit.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wonder if there are friends or family members able to assist.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It’s a stupid lap dance. No emotional attachment and just bad behavior. It wasn’t sex. 
I’ve asked what other horrible deeds this guy has done in the past other than go to strip clubs pertaining to his work which the OP says she agreed to. 
OP doesn’t offer any other information on whether he’s cheated in the past or not.
If the childish, trashy lap dance is his worst infraction in all these years….. I think it’s forgivable.
Why not just tell the dude no more strip coins whatsoever in any circumstance?
I think this reaction is way over the top, especially since his wife was ok with him going to the strip joint. Doesn’t she know those women are going to come up to her husband and put there hands all over him when he’s just sitting at the bar to get him to buy a stupid lap dance and that was bound to happen? Surely if her husband isn’t an idiot, he knows these women are just after money. 

To say he has sex with this woman is idiotic. They don’t have sex for three 20$ lap dances.

The OP is super angry. TexasMom who has her husband “beat them up” occasionally is just stoking that fire. It’s not her husband or her kids.

OP if you want to divorce him, that’s your choice. What he did was wrong. Cheating? Well, it crossed your boundary so yep.
Did he have sex with a woman or a hooker? No, I don’t think so. But I’ll agree that men going to strip clubs that are married is wrong, it’s disrespectful, hurtful, and he should be more remorseful about it.
That said, since you’re so aggressively forceful on divorcing him and seem to hate him now, he may have kinda given up on trying to deal with you. You seem pretty unwilling to consider anything other than he’s a cheater, divorce him.

Is this the extent of the cheating he’s done, or is there more? If this is it, you’re just wanting to divorce the man for other reasons that you won’t divulge.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Thats what I'm currently concerned about too, he holds the money, he holds the power, and he has no quarms about abusing it to keep her subjicated to get what he wants.


So you’d just give your wife who is saying she’s going to divorce you, full access to your paycheck? Ok then.

she can get an attorney and old boy will be forced to pay the attorney fees. He’d be an idiot to just turn her loose with the bank account at this point.
she could drain every dollar in the account and he’d have nothing. Apparently she and he are home and their needs are being met.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Wonder if there are friends or family members able to assist.


Sadly, the OP said no. It’s just a heartbreaking situation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> So you’d just give your wife who is saying she’s going to divorce you, full access to your paycheck? Ok then.
> 
> she can get an attorney and old boy will be forced to pay the attorney fees. He’d be an idiot to just turn her loose with the bank account at this point.
> she could drain every dollar in the account and he’d have nothing. Apparently she and he are home and their needs are being met.


So you think it's moral to cheat and then cut off your wife's access to finances so she won't have access to legal counsel let alone divorce? As long as he provides for he is entitled to abuse her like this correct?

I'm not expecting an abuser to do any less, but I am calling OPs husband out for what he is.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Isn't it sad that a guy trashed his marriage and home life for 3 'stupid' lap dances where he 'only' touched her titties and ass.

I'd divorce him just because he is so damn stupid.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yes I think it’s reasonable to try to protect yourself.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Isn't it sad that a guy trashed his marriage and home life for 3 'stupid' lap dances where he 'only' touched her titties and ass.
> 
> I'd divorce him just because he is so ****ingstupid.


That I would agree with.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> OK so he knew that ANY sort of lap dance was a no no even with no touching? Its just that from what you said in some of your posts it seemed to be the touching that was the issue not the lap dance itself. If he knows that a lap dance is a total no no then I can fully understand where you are coming from. If you are ok with a lap dance but no touching then not so much. Did you ever ask that he change jobs? Its really not controlling or insecure to expect our spouses not to go to these places. Did he go to these places before you got married?


I feel like you’re splitting hairs here. My boundaries were clear. He knew that. He has changed jobs numerous times. He says he hasn’t done this before. He wasn’t a regular of these places before to my knowledge. I wouldn’t have married a man like that. He knew I didn’t like the idea much. Watching was the absolute limit. No lapdance. No contact. Period.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> And you married him after this? I don't really get it. If he was such a nasty guy, why did you marry him? The way he reacted to your discovery is way over the top too. There's something I really don't understand going on here.


I suppose I’m in denial and have been for a long time. I haven’t felt loved before. My father abandoned me when he remarried after my mother died. I’m realizing by the comments, I’m weak and pathetic to have given him this bit of room. I have a lot of work to do on myself. I see why he did this. I’ve allowed myself to be a door mat.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

It's just a lap dance. Was is wrong, yes. But you allow your husband to go to strip clubs all the time. You think he goes there and never cops a feel?

But also, how's the sex life at home? Most guys with a great sex life at home don't have much of a desire to go to strip clubs or get lap dances.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes I think it’s reasonable to try to protect yourself.


When my ex-wife asked for divorce I gave her what she wanted. 
I can never bring myself to do what OP's husband is doing, it's plain abusive.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP,
If the guy has been a reasonable dude for years, and had a lap dance at the club, is it possible your anger could subside and the consequences for his terrible behavior could be no more strip clubs, sharing location, etc?

let him know he broke your trust, establish more rigid boundaries on his behavior, and see how he reacts? Surely the man would be willing to cross oceans to keep you.

If not, yes, divorce him with gusto. It seems the obvious would be no more strip clubs.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> When my ex-wife asked for divorce I gave her what she wanted.
> I can never bring myself to do what OP's husband is doing, it's plain abusive.


People throw out that abusive word pretty freely these days.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Right now I'm rather surprised such a breach of trust is deemed acceptable, because it's just a lap dance correct?

Well, guess people have low standards of fidelity.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> People throw out that abusive word pretty freely these days.


Would you rather, controlling?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

thunderchad said:


> It's just a lap dance. Was is wrong, yes. But you allow your husband to go to strip clubs all the time. You think he goes there and never cops a feel?
> 
> But also, how's the sex life at home? Most guys with a great sex life at home don't have much of a desire to go to strip clubs or get lap dances.


I do not allow him to go all the time. This is the first time he has admitted to going since we have been together. We have talked about expectations should this arise because I know it has in business before we lived together and committed to each other.
And thanks, our sex life sucks. We have young kids and we never make time for each other. I guess your blaming me for that?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> My husband recently went away for business and I exposed him in a series of lies that have completely changed my feelings towards him.
> Backstory: friends 20+ years, living together for 10, children together (under 7), married just a year and a half ago.
> We have kept the children home doing online learning with the pandemic which has been utterly taxing. Protecting our small family and his immune compromised parents has been priority. Fast forward to last week. He went away for business. I got a message from him around 3am. He was obviously drunk. I didn’t reply but was irked he would be out doing whatever he was doing until 3am. Work? Understandable. Dinner? Understandable. Out to 3am? Not ok. Not under these circumstances. The next day he told me he was at a bar. He didn’t elaborate but I trusted him and I didn’t question the type of bar. Next night, he goes out for dinner. At 11pm I text to ask how dinner was. His reply - the owner of the company he works for lost his dad the night before. Umm weird. At this point I’m suspicious about something. I don’t know what. I did not assume he had been unfaithful. I just sensed something weird. Maybe even homoerotic relations with his boss (there was a hug between the two described). Conversations were short. I wasn’t pleased. I asked before he return home the next day, he do a covid test. We left it at that. He said he should be back around dinner. Dinner rolls around and no word from him. I’m still annoyed by the poor choices he made so I didn’t call to ask where he was. I looked at our banking info to see if he’s paid the toll for the border (I know he pays this by card). I see “redacted gentlemens club”. Except the name wasn’t a dead give away, I was stupid enough to think he maybe bought me lingerie. So to satiate curiosity, I googled the name of the ‘lingerie store/gentlemens club’. I was shocked. We have a rule. You can go and you can watch (he does for business, I’m not interested at all) but I wouldn’t have expected this in a pandemic.
> Later, I start finding out bits and pieces. He had a lapdance. Nope. He had three lapdances. He also admitted to touching her breasts and butt (I don’t believe this is where is ended - why stop at three? He claims he didn’t ejaculate). He hasn’t been transparent. He’s tried projecting his guilt back on me. I’m stunned. My confidence just shattered. I don’t know how to pickup the pieces.
> ...


I give up. The comments here were friendly at first but humanity is in a rough place right now. I can’t imagine having zero empathy. And some of you just don’t read. To the few who tried to be neutral and didn’t make me feel like this was my fault, thank you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I do not allow him to go all the time. This is the first time he has admitted to going since we have been together. We have talked about expectations should this arise because I know it has in business before we lived together and committed to each other.
> And thanks, our sex life sucks. We have young kids and we never make time for each other. I guess your blaming me for that?


Not at all!
He screwed up. I for one don’t think he had sex with the stripper. I think there’s room here for forgiveness and a solution. If this is his worst infraction…….. is it?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Right now I'm rather surprised such a breach of trust is deemed acceptable, because it's just a lap dance correct?
> 
> Well, guess people have low standards of fidelity.


That’s where I’m at. He made choices. He knew I wouldn’t be okay if I knew. He wasn’t forthcoming at all.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> Not at all!
> He screwed up. I for one don’t think he had sex with the stripper. I think there’s room here for forgiveness and a solution. If this is his worst infraction…….. is it?


Her husband is *unrepentant*. There is no room for forgiveness with that. Come on mate, we both know how it is.

OP's post here: 



Jane Doe 82 said:


> Well, I called him out and said I was mad. His first reply was “*you always do this, it’s so tiring”*. He often disregards our feelings when he travels. I haven’t been on a date night in 6 years. I don’t leave the house. He gets put in a penthouse suite at the Venetian and then rubs it in my face. That hurts.
> I told him he pulled the rig out from under me with this. That I trusted him (obviously really blindly/stupidly). *His reply this time “you pulled the rug out from under yourself”*. How? I didn’t cheat. It’s never crossed my mind! I don’t go to strip clubs!
> There are countless other examples. He’s cut off my access to our finances. He claims he’s making changes. He’s just emotionally abusive. It’s so hard to leave because I’ve been home for 7 years. I gave up my corporate career to raise our babies. I have no income, no relevant skills anymore. No assets, I spent my inheritance paying off our debts from college, visa etc.
> 
> I’m paying the price for living in denial. I should have expected this.


Does this look redeemable to you?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If he’s unrepentant, I agree he needs tossing.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I do not allow him to go all the time. This is the first time he has admitted to going since we have been together. We have talked about expectations should this arise because I know it has in business before we lived together and committed to each other.
> And thanks, our sex life sucks. We have young kids and we never make time for each other. I guess
> 
> 
> ...


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> And thanks, our sex life sucks. We have young kids and we never make time for each other. I guess your blaming me for that?


I'm not blaming you, I'm blaming both of y'all on the sex issue. Perhaps you can find a way to heal and then start working on issues of intimacy, feeling loved, etc.

I'm in no way excusing his behavior but one has to be realistic and realize that cheating and stuff like this happens way more often when their sex life is not good. No sex life or a bad sex life in a couple is like a ticking timebomb and should always try to be fixed quickly.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> People throw out that abusive word pretty freely these days.





Evinrude58 said:


> If he’s unrepentant, I agree he needs tossing.


His first faux pas like this to my knowledge. There have been a number of other serious trust issues before with the children and my security. He’s changed locks on our house to keep me out. I genuinely question a personality disorder. He is working to explore that now. He does have other neurodivergence.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> His first faux pas like this to my knowledge. There have been a number of other serious trust issues before with the children and my security. He’s changed locks on our house to keep me out. I genuinely question a personality disorder. He is working to explore that now. He does have other neurodivergence.


The more I read the more I see the pattern of the type of person he is, and sadly, you need to play it very carefully here.

It is a power play, and he has withdrawn your 'privileges' until you come around to his line of thinking. You may have to swallow your pride, give him what he wants for now, stroke his ego, be the 'property' he wants and expects you to be, regain access to finances, start putting money away slowly without arousing suspicion, and play the long game if you want out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> His first faux pas like this to my knowledge. There have been a number of other serious trust issues before with the children and my security. He’s changed locks on our house to keep me out. I genuinely question a personality disorder. He is working to explore that now. He does have other neurodivergence.


Sounds like this may just be the final straw. The most important thing is for you to know this is his fault. This is his shortcoming, his flaw, NOT yours. No matter what anyone says, this isn’t on you and you’re under no obligation to redo your body to look like a stripper or degrade yourself in any way to “win him back.” He’s got a pattern of treating you with disrespect. Get a job, start shutting him out and get your life ready to move on. You can do it, you’re strong and don’t need him to define you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Changing locks to keep you out is pretty crazy.
Do you love the man? You say you’ve never felt loved. Why did you marry him? (Not at all blaming you for anything, I’m just trying to understand the full situation)
If you don’t love him, divorce him for that reason. Divorce him because he mistreats you. Divorce him because he doesn’t make an effort to show you you’re loved and want a romantic evening with you, and yes, sex.

But the strip club and lap dance thing……
That’s not the end of the world and has the potential of being fixed should you give it a chance. 
You are deeply hurt right now over this, understandably. If he makes no effort to help fix his screwup and your pain, you are better off without him for sure.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I suppose I’m in denial and have been for a long time. I haven’t felt loved before. My father abandoned me when he remarried after my mother died. I’m realizing by the comments, I’m weak and pathetic to have given him this bit of room. I have a lot of work to do on myself. I see why he did this. I’ve allowed myself to be a door mat.


Thank you for the explanation. It makes all sense now. We are human after all and **** happens. Hopefully, you will be able to find a way out of this mess without too much heartbreak.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Surely the man would be willing to cross oceans to keep you.


LOL Please get your head - oh, umm, wait - please read her posts. The guy isn't even willing to give her money to buy a Big Mac. I don't get why you're insisting on this guy's actions do not warrant being kicked to the curb. 

It seems there is a blatant double standard being employed by some posters on this thread. When a wife flirts with an old high school boyfriend via emails, the general male consensus is that she needs to be strung up. But, if a guy has a skanky skank sitting on his lap and thrusting her tits in his face and rubbing her nasty, disease ridden crotch all over his pants it's just "Oh, boys will be boys". BS!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sounds like this may just be the final straw. The most important thing is for you to know this is his fault. This is his shortcoming, his flaw, NOT yours. No matter what anyone says, this isn’t on you and you’re under no obligation to redo your body to look like a stripper or degrade yourself in any way to “win him back.” He’s got a pattern of treating you with disrespect. Get a job, start shutting him out and get your life ready to move on. You can do it, you’re strong and don’t need him to define you.


My ex-fiancee's mother is like this, her husband is very abusive and controlling. She puts up with everything because she just has no way out, he pockets all the money she earns as well - so getting a job may not even be a solution. My ex stood up for her mum whenever she could but her mum is so far gone and broken that she has accepted her fate. This happens more often than we think.

This is what I see here, and it sucks.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> LOL Please get your head - oh, umm, wait - please read her posts. The guy isn't even willing to give her money to buy a Big Mac. I don't get why you're insisting on this guy's actions do not warrant being kicked to the curb.
> 
> It seems there is a blatant double standard being employed by some posters on this thread. When a wife flirts with an old high school boyfriend via emails, the general male consensus is that she needs to be strung up. But, if a guy has a skanky skank sitting on his lap and thrusting her tits in his face and rubbing her nasty, disease ridden crotch all over his pants it's just "Oh, boys will be boys". BS!


See, the difference to me is that the old high school boyfriend/girlfriend…… yeah that’s looking for an affair….. but the skank on the Lap to me is not exactly affair/emotional stuff, and I certainly have never wanted sex with a stripper but have to admit when I was a young single guy that it was fun to look and such.

I am not against hanging a cheater if either gender.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I still say the OP should get tested for STDs. The last thing she needs is some nasty disease. I doubt she has a choice to cut him off, but maybe encourage condoms since she knows he’s out and about.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> The more I read the more I see the pattern of the type of person he is, and sadly, you need to play it very carefully here.
> 
> It is a power play, and he has withdrawn your 'privileges' until you come around to his line of thinking. You may have to swallow your pride, give him what he wants for now, stroke his ego, be the 'property' he wants and expects you to be, regain access to finances, start putting money away slowly without arousing suspicion, and play the long game if you want out.


This is how I foresee it playing out - unfortunately.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I still say the OP should get tested for STDs. The last thing she needs is some nasty disease. I doubt she has a choice to cut him off, but maybe encourage condoms since she knows he’s out and about.


Oh I’m already on it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Do you not read? No there are no plans for improvement there are plans to divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Off topic but I reckon women should empower themselves more akin to some women I met, the kind that achieves so much more than many others their age holding authority and commanding respect.


Agreed l, although I actually hate the word empowering.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I feel like you’re splitting hairs here. My boundaries were clear. He knew that. He has changed jobs numerous times. He says he hasn’t done this before. He wasn’t a regular of these places before to my knowledge. I wouldn’t have married a man like that. He knew I didn’t like the idea much. Watching was the absolute limit. No lapdance. No contact. Period.


When I said about changing jobs I meant away from anything that encourages this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> His first faux pas like this to my knowledge. There have been a number of other serious trust issues before with the children and my security. He’s changed locks on our house to keep me out. I genuinely question a personality disorder. He is working to explore that now. He does have other neurodivergence.


People who do this sort of thing will often try and blame it on some sort of condition. He knew he did wrong, you said he was being shifty. 
At least he hasn't blamed a sex addiction like so many men do.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> This is how I foresee it playing out - unfortunately.


So he’s changed the locks now or in the past?

im not Canadian but in the US lawenforcement would often get involved here and a judge would not look kindly on locking a spouse out even during a divorce.

please don’t let him bully you. Contact lawyers, women’s help centers.

In the US you are entitled to roughly 1/2 in a divorce. You could also easily use a credit card for a divorce.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> This is how I foresee it playing out - unfortunately.


Looks like you know what you need to do.
It is unfortunate, and it will be difficult, but the alternative is hell and you know this. 

Know however, that I DO believe that you can come out of this.
There is a fire behind your words and a backbone despite the situation you are in right now.

Stay strong and stay the course.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not sure what your point is here. What you say may be true about social media and apps, but to imply the wife is somehow responsible for her husband cheating is WAY off the mark.


That is not what I am implying. I was taking to the point of someone saying something about todays culture, implying there shouldn’t be any strip clubs.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I suppose I’m in denial and have been for a long time. I haven’t felt loved before. My father abandoned me when he remarried after my mother died. I’m realizing by the comments, I’m weak and pathetic to have given him this bit of room. I have a lot of work to do on myself. I see why he did this. I’ve allowed myself to be a door mat.


You’re not weak, pathetic or a door mat. Your husband is the one that broke your trust. He is the one that chose to do this. It has nothing to do with who you are.

Your actually showing great strength standing your ground once you realized what he has done. Keep it up.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> His first faux pas like this to my knowledge. There have been a number of other serious trust issues before with the children and my security. He’s changed locks on our house to keep me out. I genuinely question a personality disorder. He is working to explore that now. He does have other neurodivergence.


Is he safe to be around?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Do you not read? No there are no plans for improvement there are plans to divorce.


Hell, I can't read. I just look at the pictures. I do recall OP stating they have no sex life.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds as if there are other problems that factor in (there usually are). If he’s unwilling to change then there are the usual choices. The first time I caught my husband cheating (doesn’t mean it really was the first time he cheated but it was the first I knew about) I reconciled because I believed in marriage and I wanted to keep my family intact and — most important — he promised to change. Huge mistake. Despite all his promises, I think he viewed reconciliation as permission to continue doing as he pleased. The second time I caught him I divorced him. Some people just aren’t worth the effort.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> So he’s changed the locks now or in the past?
> 
> im not Canadian but in the US lawenforcement would often get involved here and a judge would not look kindly on locking a spouse out even during a divorce.
> 
> ...


It was five years ago he did that. I have full access to the house right now. I don’t believe his actions now or then do him any justice. It’s hard to leave when you have nothing. I take responsibility for not better protecting myself.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Is he safe to be around?


Yes. I do not feel threatened physically. He has been quite respectful of my privacy and space since he returned to the house. I do have an emergency plan and bag packed. I don’t believe I will need it but I’m not denying the possibility of anything at this point.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like you know what you need to do.
> It is unfortunate, and it will be difficult, but the alternative is hell and you know this.
> 
> Know however, that I DO believe that you can come out of this.
> ...


Thank you very much.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> It was five years ago he did that. I have full access to the house right now. I don’t believe his actions now or then do him any justice. It’s hard to leave when you have nothing. I take responsibility for not better protecting myself.


Get some good legal advise as to what you could do. Presumably you have a house? Do you have any sort of work? If not can you get work? 
He would have to pay child allowance etc


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, you never said if you loved the man or why your relationship is so bad.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So they’re only perfect in the places where men go to strip clubs. 🤪😂


But dude! I had two babies in less than two years. Big babies!


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Granted yes, some were exceptional but not all. It's been years, so maybe things have changed. Texas was the last place one I recall going to one.


This was Indiana. 🤢


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I suppose I’m in denial and have been for a long time. I haven’t felt loved before. My father abandoned me when he remarried after my mother died. I’m realizing by the comments, I’m weak and pathetic to have given him this bit of room. I have a lot of work to do on myself. I see why he did this. I’ve allowed myself to be a door mat.


I don't think you're "weak and pathetic" at all.

Listen, I think it's cool that you allowed him to even go to strip clubs. Back in the day, there were times I would go with friends, but I always felt like a loser afterwards. Have I had a lap dance? Yes. I haven't been to a strip club in probably twenty years. My wife knew I went from time to time.

Would I be pissed if my wife went to a club like this with her friends and she had a lap dance and was touching the man? Absafreakinlutely!!

Would I divorce her over this? No I would not however there would be no more going to these clubs.

I would be more pissed at the lying. 

Sounds like there's much more going on between you and H then this issue.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

sideways said:


> Sounds like there's much more going on between you and H then this issue.


Worse, if you can discern the balance of power and her current situation. 
However, I'm confident OP knows what to do in this regard.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ABHale said:


> I think Jane said he has been to strip clubs for years with his colleagues. I believe this is the first time he was acting shady. She mentioned that the last one was in Vegas and he wasn’t scheduled to go to this one. Good possibility that something happened in Vegas.


I hate to say this, but I too think that the OP's H is not good husband/father material. I mean he knew the OP for 20 years and lived with her for 10 years before marrying her and then only after he impregnated her twice. To me that doesn't sound like a man who is committed to the concept of honoring marriage vows to this woman, nor like a man committed to his family. As such bad behavior while off on a business trip would not be a surprise.

I have a relative that is an HR manager, his discussions of what is a hostile work environment over holiday dinners, makes me think that the company the OP's husband works for is begging for an ugly and expensive lawsuit. In this day and age, taking clients to Hooters can be viewed as creating a work environment hostile to women.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*OK! Please! No more off topic threadjacks or PhD level dissertations on why stripping is a good thing or a bad thing.*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You didn't indicate how long you have been married.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You didn't indicate how long you have been married.


I've been with my wife for 23 yrs. Never during that time did I ever get a lap dance. Went a few times to a strip club the first couple of yrs we were dating and haven't been back in over twenty years. 

OP glad you found TAM. Sorry to hear you don't really have a place to go or people you can lean on during this. Hopefully the good people here can help you when you need it. 

Your Boundaries are yours and although I don't agree with your consequences for stepping over one of them I sure in the heck respect your strong conviction for standing up for what you believe and this my Friend flat out shows that you are NOT "weak and pathetic" (what you were saying about yourself earlier).

Praying you find the peace you're seeking in this nightmare.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

@Jane Doe 82, if you ever want to chat without being judged please feel free to PM me. You are perfectly within your rights to set limits in your marriage and expect them to be respected. ❤❤❤


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> @Jane Doe 82, if you ever want to chat without being judged please feel free to PM me. You are perfectly within your rights to set limits in your marriage and expect them to be respected. ❤❤❤


Nobody is judging @Jane Doe 82. Except perhaps herself, engendered by her husband who is not a nice person and a poor husband and father in my opinion.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> People who do this sort of thing will often try and blame it on some sort of condition. He knew he did wrong, you said he was being shifty.
> At least he hasn't blamed a sex addiction like so many men do.


I'll agree with you in the sense that he did wrong, but the fact that they have a history of being okay with strip clubs cannot be ignored. Like I was saying in an earlier comment, there's clearly a lot more going on and there's gray area, there just is - and it's been self - imposed. I also love the point that you touched on about a lot of men blaming sex addiction for their actions. I wish guys would have the fortitude to tell their wives about the differences in male and female nature. Stop lying about it. Biologically, we have something like 10 to 20 times the amount of testosterone than women. It's NATURAL for us to have higher sex drives. I'm saying this because I know that most wives don't fully understand the responsibility that they have to fulfil their husbands sexual needs. Our needs are very different from a woman's needs and when they aren't met, things like this happen. Not excusing infidelity (which I don't think this is), but we have to start being more real about these issues. Women and men are pretty much at odds sexually nowadays.....even though we love each other. Make it make sense LOL! If I had my way, husbands and wives would be so obsessed with each other, that neither party would have the time or energy to entertain anybody else. The harsh truth is that it's often messy due to our ego and pride. She needs to keep in mind the differences between men and women. Divorce over a lap dance? Nah, there's gotta be a lot more to this.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Music4Life said:


> I'll agree with you in the sense that he did wrong, but the fact that they have a history of being okay with strip clubs cannot be ignored. Like I was saying in an earlier comment, there's clearly a lot more going on and there's gray area, there just is - and it's been self - imposed. I also love the point that you touched on about a lot of men blaming sex addiction for their actions. I wish guys would have the fortitude to tell their wives about the differences in male and female nature. Stop lying about it. Biologically, we have something like 10 to 20 times the amount of testosterone than women. It's NATURAL for us to have higher sex drives. I'm saying this because I know that most wives don't fully understand the responsibility that they have to fulfil their husbands sexual needs. Our needs are very different from a woman's needs and when they aren't met, things like this happen. Not excusing infidelity (which I don't think this is), but we have to start being more real about these issues. Women and men are pretty much at odds sexually nowadays.....even though we love each other. Make it make sense LOL! If I had my way, husbands and wives would be so obsessed with each other, that neither party would have the time or energy to entertain anybody else. The harsh truth is that it's often messy due to our ego and pride. She needs to keep in mind the differences between men and women. Divorce over a lap dance? Nah, there's gotta be a lot more to this.


It is messy. I have a sex drive but


Blondilocks said:


> You didn't indicate how long you have been married.


Friends for 26 years, living together for 10, married just 1.5 years.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Music4Life said:


> I'll agree with you in the sense that he did wrong, but the fact that they have a history of being okay with strip clubs cannot be ignored. Like I was saying in an earlier comment, there's clearly a lot more going on and there's gray area, there just is - and it's been self - imposed. I also love the point that you touched on about a lot of men blaming sex addiction for their actions. I wish guys would have the fortitude to tell their wives about the differences in male and female nature. Stop lying about it. Biologically, we have something like 10 to 20 times the amount of testosterone than women. It's NATURAL for us to have higher sex drives. I'm saying this because I know that most wives don't fully understand the responsibility that they have to fulfil their husbands sexual needs. Our needs are very different from a woman's needs and when they aren't met, things like this happen. Not excusing infidelity (which I don't think this is), but we have to start being more real about these issues. Women and men are pretty much at odds sexually nowadays.....even though we love each other. Make it make sense LOL! If I had my way, husbands and wives would be so obsessed with each other, that neither party would have the time or energy to entertain anybody else. The harsh truth is that it's often messy due to our ego and pride. She needs to keep in mind the differences between men and women. Divorce over a lap dance? Nah, there's gotta be a lot more to this.


I think I’ve mislead. We don’t have a long history of being okay with this. It was something that we discussed and set boundaries for should he find himself in a position where a strip club become entertainment during work. He doesn’t go normally. Not that I’m aware of at least.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Get some good legal advise as to what you could do. Presumably you have a house? Do you have any sort of work? If not can you get work?
> He would have to pay child allowance etc


I do not work currently. I started a business while home and did that for four years but with my children learning online, I was too challenging to keep up. Children first! I will find work again. I have two post secondary diplomas and excellent work experience. I’m just a bit rusty - it’s been seven years. I’m aware of the base child and spousal support payments in Canada which will help. I’m also entitled to at least the equity in our home since marriage and that skyrocketed since. Our house has nearly doubled in value over two years. It’s my saving grace if you will.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

*TRIGGER: sexual content *
So…hysterical bonding is a thing. Wow. Primal 😳
After a night of pleasure (and yes, I have a sex drive, I’m willing to try new things with my partner and I’m hardly ‘white bread’). He had a hard time maintain an erection when it got down to it. The teasing had us feeling like teenagers again. I had him rock hard. I was SO turned on but once in the bedroom - womp womp.
I get there is a lot being processed upstairs (mind) but it didn’t help we couldn’t keep him hard. Even giving oral which I enjoy (with him). 
Harsh times my friends. Not riding the bliss train this morning as hoped. And that’s okay. I’m being realistic (or trying to).


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

There’s a mountain of information that OP isn’t divulging about their relationship.
Gotta be more to the story other than ONE isolated incident at a strip club where the guy gets a lap dance and touches a butt and a booby. 
There has been no mention whatsoever of the guy’s good qualities, the past romance, nothing. Few people I’ve ever heard go straight to divorce with no chance of discussion if they love their spouse, no matter how horrible the misdeed. 
OP sounds more angry than hurt, disappointed, devastated….
There’s more to this story. One thing the OP did divulge is she has NEVER felt loved. Why is that? That’s an anomaly. Most people have.
What’s going on, OP? Why no background? 
He locked you out of the house once! That’s pretty awful. What happened there?
Has this guy mistreated you and shown you no love for all these years and this is the straw that broke the camel’s back?
I just don’t understand.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Just read your last post. Good luck OP. Hopefully you can figure things out. That’s a long relationship to break off over one incident. 
hopefuliy your husband will apologize and swear off the strip clubs and start making you feel loved.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> *TRIGGER: sexual content *
> So…hysterical bonding is a thing. Wow. Primal 😳
> After a night of pleasure (and yes, I have a sex drive, I’m willing to try new things with my partner and I’m hardly ‘white bread’). He had a hard time maintain an erection when it got down to it. The teasing had us feeling like teenagers again. I had him rock hard. I was SO turned on but once in the bedroom - womp womp.
> I get there is a lot being processed upstairs (mind) but it didn’t help we couldn’t keep him hard. Even giving oral which I enjoy (with him).
> Harsh times my friends. Not riding the bliss train this morning as hoped. And that’s okay. I’m being realistic (or trying to).


Does he always have a hard time maintaining an erection, and that's the reason for the poor sex life? Or was this a one off?

Hopefully he didn't go further with the stripper (or anyone else) and bring home an STD...


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> There’s a mountain of information that OP isn’t divulging about their relationship.
> Gotta be more to the story other than ONE isolated incident at a strip club where the guy gets a lap dance and touches a butt and a booby.
> There has been no mention whatsoever of the guy’s good qualities, the past romance, nothing. Few people I’ve ever heard go straight to divorce with no chance of discussion if they love their spouse, no matter how horrible the misdeed.
> OP sounds more angry than hurt, disappointed, devastated….
> ...


It’s been a **** show for years. I think he is a narcissist. He’s dealing with a lot. He’s ruined every family gathering with relationship problems (he refuses to speak with his brother and cut off some friends after some really workable issues (imo). Is just a loveless marriage or maybe he doesn’t understand or feel love the same way. I’m not free of any blame, I checked out emotionally ages ago. I don’t know that we married for the right reasons. We both have some baggage but I busted my ass for him and our children. He knows he has self-discovery to do. I’m hyper self aware. I’ve done a ton of counselling and therapy for my baggage. He hasn’t. He doesn’t have that same self awareness. He says he’ll go. He’s said that for years. He is very intellectually bright but there’s an imbalance. He hasn’t tuned into himself or emotion. It’s a struggle. He has potential but I think there is a mental issue that needs addressing. And I don’t mean that underhandedly. I’m not perfect either. I’ve had some serious issues with anxiety and panic attacks. We’re all human.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Does he always have a hard time maintaining an erection, and that's the reason for the poor sex life? Or was this a one off?
> 
> Hopefully he didn't go further with the stripper (or anyone else) and bring home an STD...


He has had time in the past, not on a regular basis really. Based on how aroused he was during over the clothes foreplay, I didn’t expect this really. Is it me? Him? The guilt? Is he disconnected? 
I’m trying not to run away with ideas. I prefer to work on facts. He’s still sleeping. I got up with the children. We’ll talk later when we can make time. I suspect he is dealing with some unexpected emotions too.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I do not work currently. I started a business while home and did that for four years but with my children learning online, I was too challenging to keep up. Children first! I will find work again. I have two post secondary diplomas and excellent work experience. I’m just a bit rusty - it’s been seven years. I’m aware of the base child and spousal support payments in Canada which will help. I’m also entitled to at least the equity in our home since marriage and that skyrocketed since. Our house has nearly doubled in value over two years. It’s my saving grace if you will.


Well it's positive about the house. Hopefully you could afford 2 smaller places if the marriage did end?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> He has had time in the past, not on a regular basis really. Based on how aroused he was during over the clothes foreplay, I didn’t expect this really. Is it me? Him? The guilt? Is he disconnected?
> I’m trying not to run away with ideas. I prefer to work on facts. He’s still sleeping. I got up with the children. We’ll talk later when we can make time. I suspect he is dealing with some unexpected emotions too.


I can pretty much guarantee it is some issue with him, not you.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Does he always have a hard time maintaining an erection, and that's the reason for the poor sex life? Or was this a one off?
> 
> Hopefully he didn't go further with the stripper (or anyone else) and bring home an STD...


Oh, and as awkward as it was to propose it, I bought and made him wear a condoms. 

I don’t want disease but I also don’t want more babies. Birth control is out for me and he won’t consider a vasectomy. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Yeah, it’s definitely not you on the erection thing. But maybe work on that abd see if it gets better? Make some demands of him before finalizing a divorce and see if you both can come together? Nothing wrong with giving an opportunity to fix things before dropping the hammer.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> There’s a mountain of information that OP isn’t divulging about their


Agreed 


Jane Doe 82 said:


> Oh, and as awkward as it was to propose it, I bought and made him wear a condoms.
> 
> I don’t want disease but I also don’t want more babies. Birth control is out for me and he won’t consider a vasectomy. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Most likely the condom was the issue, mentally and physically for him. Totally get your reasoning though, hopefully you’ll get it worked out.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Well it's positive about the house. Hopefully you could afford 2 smaller places if the marriage did end?


Possibly. Home prices here are outrageous. We have about 2000sq feet and the house will sell for over a million easily. But…it also means harder to buy. I’d have to relocate.


Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah, it’s definitely not you on the erection thing. But maybe work on that abd see if it gets better? Make some demands of him before finalizing a divorce and see if you both can come together? Nothing wrong with giving an opportunity to fix things before dropping the hammer.


Agree. We are seeking therapy individually and will also do some together - for the best interests of the children. We have a lot of work to do to in order to have a healthy relationship. I won’t deny that. We have a young family. Everyone deserves opportunity. I just don’t want to be blinded or lie to myself because it seems to be something I do. I hate conflict so I take a lot of crap. The red line is very much the final line. It’s a means of self-preservation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Possibly. Home prices here are outrageous. We have about 2000sq feet and the house will sell for over a million easily. But…it also means harder to buy. I’d have to relocate.
> 
> Agree. We are seeking therapy individually and will also do some together - for the best interests of the children. We have a lot of work to do to in order to have a healthy relationship. I won’t deny that. We have a young family. Everyone deserves opportunity. I just don’t want to be blinded or lie to myself because it seems to be something I do. I hate conflict so I take a lot of crap. The red line is very much the final line. It’s a means of self-preservation.


You would both have to downsize of course to somewhere smaller.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Slow Hand said:


> Agreed
> 
> Most likely the condom was the issue, mentally and physically for him. Totally get your reasoning though, hopefully you’ll get it worked out.


Thanks. I def. considered that. I don’t love them myself so I can imagine having to be the one wearing one. I considered this and researched what’s most preferred by men based on what’s out right now. 
I was trying to hype him to be able to come together without having to remove himself. It’s crazy hot about being able to reach orgasm together without withdrawal.
Sorry, maybe this is too much for this forum? I’m still learning and I’m a little uninhibited speaking about sexuality. It’s human and a lot less weird and taboo than people feel.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I considered this and researched what’s most preferred by men based on what’s out right now.


I have tried probably 20 kinds. The best are MyONE as they’re thin and they also custom make them, they have something like 70 sizes. So you can get them such that they fit perfect. They normally give you a couple different ones when you size up then you can do a batch order of whichever you like better.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> I have tried probably 20 kinds. The best are MyONE as they’re thin and they also custom make them, they have something like 70 sizes. So you can get them such that they fit perfect. They normally give you a couple different ones when you size up then you can do a batch order of whichever you like better.


Holy hell. That’s amazing. I definitely didn’t go to that extent but… I tried (time was of the essence). Something to look into. Thanks so much!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maybe I misunderstood, you had sex with him after what he's done to you?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe I misunderstood, you had sex with him after what he's done to you?


I did. It was my choice after considering my emotions. I was hit by wave of lust that came out of the blue and was more intense than anything I’d experienced. I didn’t act on it. I researched it. I wanted to understand what caused it. Is it heathy? Is it okay to make a decision to have sex with him to fulfill my needs based on a a sense of awareness? It was. It was probably the most exciting sex we’ve ever had. Did I expect it to fix anything? Never. Does he think this means forgiveness. Not at all. I explained my feelings and what having sex would and wouldn’t mean. It was consensual and it wasn’t impulsive (exactly).


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I did. It was my choice after considering my emotions. I was hit by wave of lust that came out of the blue and was more intense than anything I’d experienced. I didn’t act on it. I researched it. I wanted to understand what caused it. Is it heathy? Is it okay to make a decision to have sex with him to fulfill my needs based on a a sense of awareness? It was. It was probably the most exciting sex we’ve ever had. Did I expect it to fix anything? Never. Does he think this means forgiveness. Not at all. I explained my feelings and what having sex would and wouldn’t mean. It was consensual and it wasn’t impulsive (exactly).


I should add that I had a week to digest the rawness. I processed the anger first so we could speak calmly. We have had a lot of conversation since he came back to the house. When I’ve hit my emotional limit or want him to stop and digest or inflect, we take a break from talking. It’s been surprisingly calm and I feel the mental space to process what we discuss.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I did. It was my choice after considering my emotions. I was hit by wave of lust that came out of the blue and was more intense than anything I’d experienced. I didn’t act on it. I researched it. I wanted to understand what caused it. Is it heathy? Is it okay to make a decision to have sex with him to fulfill my needs based on a a sense of awareness? It was. It was probably the most exciting sex we’ve ever had. Did I expect it to fix anything? Never. Does he think this means forgiveness. Not at all. I explained my feelings and what having sex would and wouldn’t mean. It was consensual and it wasn’t impulsive (exactly).


You lost me, to be honest.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> You lost me, to be honest.


Same 😞


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Same 😞


After all that...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> After all that...


😔 I know.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Wow guys, really? 


In Absentia said:


> After all that...





TexasMom1216 said:


> 😔 I know.


A little dramatic?!? 🤣


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In Absentia said:


> You lost me, to be honest.





TexasMom1216 said:


> Same 😞





In Absentia said:


> After all that...





TexasMom1216 said:


> 😔 I know.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Well it's positive about the house. Hopefully you could afford 2 smaller places if the marriage did end?


Doesn’t sound like this will be a concern.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> Wow guys, really?
> 
> 
> 
> A little dramatic?!? 🤣


Maybe... but maybe the OP has undergone some kind of brain transplant overnight?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe... but maybe the OP has undergone some kind of brain transplant overnight?


It’s her marriage and her decision. It was only our business for the time when she asked for advice. I guess she decided she’s fine with it. I just hope she gets tested periodically for STDs, they can cause serious health issues if they’re not treated. But it’s not up to any of us, it’s her life. I’m sure her H is happy with this new arrangement. My input here has no value so this is the last I’ll say on it. 😔


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s her marriage and her decision. It was only our business for the time when she asked for advice. I guess she decided she’s fine with it. I just hope she gets tested periodically for STDs, they can cause serious health issues if they’re not treated. But it’s not up to any of us, it’s her life. I’m sure her H is happy with this new arrangement. My input here has no value so this is the last I’ll say on it. 😔


It's fine by me too. Maybe they'll reconnect, somehow. Who knows... that would be happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> It's fine by me too. Maybe they'll reconnect, somehow. Who knows... that would be happy ending, as far as I'm concerned.


I’m going to disagree with a one way open marriage being a happy ending but it’s completely up to her.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m going to disagree with a one way open marriage being a happy ending but it’s completely up to her.


I must have missed that, care to share a quote?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m sure her H is happy with this new arrangement. My input here has no value so this is the last I’ll say on it. 😔


What new arrangement?


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

It’s not to say he is forgiven. It’s not to say things are fixed. It’s not to say there isn’t work ahead for each of us independently. It is one spoke on a wheel of many.
It was to say, I have needs too. I need to feel sexy again. And I can do that for myself but self pleasure wasn’t going to do it in this case. This was a ferocious appetite for penetrating sex. I’m not going to seek a random person for sex. It’s quite basic. I separated some of the emotion to satisfy my needs and made it clear that’s what it was about. I was very clear about my messaging. I have moments of weakness but this lit a fire inside. To understand me better. To understand sexual relations. I’ve been cheated on by someone else in a past relationship. It was much more emotionally involved and long term. I couldn’t separate emotion that time. In light of this situation spotlighting the broken relationship, I have a lot to learn about myself and I can use this as an opportunity provided I’m transparent and considerate and honest with myself.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> You lost me, to be honest.


I get that. It can be a really respect-losing situation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> It’s not to say he is forgiven. It’s not to say things are fixed. It’s not to say there isn’t work ahead for each of us independently. It is one spoke on a wheel of many.
> It was to say, I have needs too. I need to feel sexy again. And I can do that for myself but self pleasure wasn’t going to do it in this case. This was a ferocious appetite for penetrating sex. I’m not going to seek a random person for sex. It’s quite basic. I separated some of the emotion to satisfy my needs and made it clear that’s what it was about. I was very clear about my messaging. I have moments of weakness but this lit a fire inside. To understand me better. To understand sexual relations. I’ve been cheated on by someone else in a past relationship. It was much more emotionally involved and long term. I couldn’t separate emotion that time. In light of this situation spotlighting the broken relationship, I have a lot to learn about myself and I can use this as an opportunity provided I’m transparent and considerate and honest with myself.


I really don't know how to answer this, because I wouldn't be able to have sex with someone who cheated on me. But I guess we all different.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Doesn’t sound like this will be a concern.


There is a lot of work ahead. I have not wavered from seeking independence. There is some time for him to demonstrate his commitment to self improvement etc. and whether I will consider it as time progresses.
I don’t need the underhanded jabs. Thank you.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I really don't know how to answer this, because I wouldn't be able to have sex with someone who cheated on me. But I guess we all different.


I have been cheated on by someone else in a much more complex affair. We did not have sex for a long time after. We tried to be friends. The one time we did try having sex, I was left in tears and it ended. It was awful. I’m trying to be very conscientious about my motivations and my safety. I know I am vulnerable right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I did. It was my choice after considering my emotions. I was hit by wave of lust that came out of the blue and was more intense than anything I’d experienced. I didn’t act on it. I researched it. I wanted to understand what caused it. Is it heathy? Is it okay to make a decision to have sex with him to fulfill my needs based on a a sense of awareness? It was. It was probably the most exciting sex we’ve ever had. Did I expect it to fix anything? Never. Does he think this means forgiveness. Not at all. I explained my feelings and what having sex would and wouldn’t mean. It was consensual and it wasn’t impulsive (exactly).


If you are thinking of ending the marriage it seems as if you sent a very misleading message. If you are staying then that's fine.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> I really don't know how to answer this, because I wouldn't be able to have sex with someone who cheated on me. But I guess we all different.


She was cheated on? I thought her SO was guilty of lap dances at a strip club?
Perhaps I should reread this thread. 😬


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> If you are thinking of ending the marriage it seems as if you sent a very misleading message. If you are staying then that's fine.


I made my motive very clear. It wasn’t about saving the relationship. This was for me. It could have been too hard for him - I’m letting him decide that for himself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe... but maybe the OP has undergone some kind of brain transplant overnight?


Yes, divorce yesterday, make up sex today.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Slow Hand said:


> She was cheated on? I thought her SO was guilty of lap dances at a strip club?
> Perhaps I should reread this thread. 😬


Lap dances and touching, definitely a form of cheating.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m going to disagree with a one way open marriage being a happy ending but it’s completely up to her.


Why do you mean? It’s not one way. It’s not even certain to be resumed. I will do independent work. He will do independent work. We have committed to couples counselling because I want to minimize any impact on our children. They’re quite young.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Slow Hand said:


> I must have missed that, care to share a quote?


If you'd read the whole thing you wouldn't need to be asking for a quote.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> She was cheated on? I thought her SO was guilty of lap dances at a strip club?
> Perhaps I should reread this thread. 😬


The OP regards lap dances and fondling of breasts and butts as cheating. Fair enough.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Lap dances and touching, definitely a form of cheating.


True, although not in and of itself divorce worthy in this instance.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Lap dances and touching, definitely a form of cheating.


I can’t deny that. Forums like this are difficult. They add levels of complexity. Some say, it wasn’t a long running emotional affair, maybe it’s not so bad. I don’t see it the same way. I do feel it’s infidelity. BUT, I have to consider whether this could be a genuine wake up (slim chances I know), but we have children. He deserves a distanced chance. The primal instinct was real. It blindsided me. Without impulse, I took time to understand why and whether I could separate the emotion for this.
I’m probably not like a lot of women. I can have a significant sex drive and it’s all driven by the mind for me.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you'd read the whole thing you wouldn't need to be asking for a quote.


Haha 😆 
Since you have, would you be kind enough to share the quote with me? Pretty please? 😊


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> The OP regards lap dances and fondling of breasts and butts as cheating. Fair enough.


Same reply as to Diana.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Slow Hand said:


> Same reply as to Diana.


I agree, but the OP thought differently. Maybe she's changing her mind now.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I agree, but the OP thought differently. Maybe she's changing her mind now.


I haven’t changed my mind. I’m navigating my emotions. This is far from “fixed”. He knows that. I’ve been explicitly clear through our dialogue. I can see his body language when we talk.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Doesn’t sound like this will be a concern.


Also, harsh. It’s a tough situation. People make poor choices. I don’t feel I have with this but either way, the judging isn’t helpful.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Some people here seem to have no clue what hysterical bonding feels like and how strong that urge is.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Some people here seem to have no clue what hysterical bonding feels like and how strong that urge is.


I was entirely unfamiliar until now. It was shocking to say the least. I’m glad I had self control to understand it first.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Also, divorce or not, marriage counseling IS a very good thing to do when children are involved. It doesn't have to be to "save the marriage". It can absolutely be to amicably end the marriage and learn to coparent. 

The OP hasn't said they are 100% getting back together. I believe she has said she is slightly open to the idea, the door isn't 100% slammed shut but it's pretty close. If the individual work and couples work helps, then it helps. If not, then it doesn't. She's open to either possibility.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I can’t deny that. Forums like this are difficult. They add levels of complexity. Some say, it wasn’t a long running emotional affair, maybe it’s not so bad. I don’t see it the same way. I do feel it’s infidelity. BUT, I have to consider whether this could be a genuine wake up (slim chances I know), but we have children. He deserves a distanced chance. The primal instinct was real. It blindsided me. Without impulse, I took time to understand why and whether I could separate the emotion for this.
> I’m probably not like a lot of women. I can have a significant sex drive and it’s all driven by the mind for me.


When it comes to detaching emotionally, hysterical bonding is the Kraken. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> I was entirely unfamiliar until now. It was shocking to say the least. I’m glad I had self control to understand it first.


I'll just say, hysterical bonding does not last. When it ends, you may end up feeling totally repulsed by him (and possibly yourself).


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Also, divorce or not, marriage counseling IS a very good thing to do when children are involved. It doesn't have to be to "save the marriage". It can absolutely be to amicably end the marriage and learn to coparent.
> 
> The OP hasn't said they are 100% getting back together. I believe she has said she is slightly open to the idea, the door isn't 100% slammed shut but it's pretty close. If the individual work and couples work helps, then it helps. If not, then it doesn't. She's open to either possibility.


This. Thank you.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> When it comes to detaching emotionally, hysterical bonding is the Kraken. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


I’m still learning. Thanks for the advice.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> I'll just say, hysterical bonding does not last. When it ends, you may end up feeling totally repulsed by him (and possibly yourself).


Yes and I’ve considered this. I don’t see it lasting (I’m a realist and I know how artificial/fleeting something like this is/can be). I’m working to prevent myself from being repulsed by myself later. I’m trying to be aware and cope. There is a lot of damage to repair either way, no matter what.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He did not have an affair, he has not (from what I’ve read) been chasing women.
He got drunk with the work guys, had a lap dance and groped a stripper at a strip club. He doesn’t seek out strip clubs on his own and this so far is his first infraction.

Its cheating. But probably other than looking at a porno, about as weak a case of cheating as it gets. She should be furious, as she was…. But blow up the marriage, not at that level to me.

But I’m not nearly as virtuous as some folks. I’m an imperfect person.

OP, don’t let anyone shame you. The chances this guy of yours screwed a stripper is unlikely in my opinion. But you’ve known him 26 years. You are the judge, jury, and executioner here. Do what you think is right.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Yes and I’ve considered this. I don’t see it lasting (I’m a realist and I know how artificial/fleeting something like this is/can be). I’m working to prevent myself from being repulsed by myself later. I’m trying to be aware and cope. There is a lot of damage to repair either way, no matter what.


I think just being aware of it will help somewhat, and not getting yourself trapped in the idea of reconciliation. Keep being clear with your husband that it is just sex and it does not mean reconciliation or forgiveness. He could definitely feel misled and that could cause some issues, so try to be prepared for that. 

For me, the hysterical bonding lasted about two weeks. The sex was phenomenal... until it wasn't. Midway through sex I looked at her, felt totally repulsed, and that was that. Afterward I felt like it was a lapse in judgment and went back to wanting a divorce asap (that didn't last either and we did decide to stay together but I doubt it has anything to do with the hysterical bonding).


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> He did not have an affair, he has not (from what I’ve read) been chasing women.
> He got drunk with the work guys, had a lap dance and groped a stripper at a strip club. He doesn’t seek out strip clubs on his own and this so far is his first infraction.
> 
> Its cheating. But probably other than looking at a porno, about as weak a case of cheating as it gets. She should be furious, as she was…. But blow up the marriage, not at that level to me.
> ...


This and I’ll add, don’t set each other up to fail, the boundaries should have been no strip clubs in this case.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Slow Hand said:


> Haha 😆
> Since you have, would you be kind enough to share the quote with me? Pretty please? 😊


You're a big boy. You can do your own homework.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You're a big boy. You can do your own homework.


You couldn’t find it either. 😆


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Slow Hand said:


> You couldn’t find it either. 😆


Yeah, absolutely nothing has been said to call this a "one-sided open marriage". It was one incident. The OP has already said he is not frequenting the strip clubs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Slow Hand said:


> True, although not in and of itself divorce worthy in this instance.


If your wife sexually fondled an almost naked guy what would you do?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Slow Hand said:


> This and I’ll add, don’t set each other up to fail, the boundaries should have been no strip clubs in this case.


Absolutely agree. It's asking for trouble.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> He did not have an affair, he has not (from what I’ve read) been chasing women.
> He got drunk with the work guys, had a lap dance and groped a stripper at a strip club. He doesn’t seek out strip clubs on his own and this so far is his first infraction.
> 
> Its cheating. But probably other than looking at a porno, about as weak a case of cheating as it gets. She should be furious, as she was…. But blow up the marriage, not at that level to me.
> ...


Did she say he was drunk? 
Not a stripper, a lap dancer. To me it's no different from sexually groping another almost naked person in any circumstances. I can't see how that isn't cheating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Slow Hand said:


> True, although not in and of itself divorce worthy in this instance.


It is to some people. Some have divorced over an EA.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Slow Hand said:


> You couldn’t find it either. 😆


I have been to the grocery store and I'm not going to do your homework for you so give it up. Read the thread.


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## Jane Doe 82 (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> I think just being aware of it will help somewhat, and not getting yourself trapped in the idea of reconciliation. Keep being clear with your husband that it is just sex and it does not mean reconciliation or forgiveness. He could definitely feel misled and that could cause some issues, so try to be prepared for that.
> 
> For me, the hysterical bonding lasted about two weeks. The sex was phenomenal... until it wasn't. Midway through sex I looked at her, felt totally repulsed, and that was that. Afterward I felt like it was a lapse in judgment and went back to wanting a divorce asap (that didn't last either and we did decide to stay together but I doubt it has anything to do with the hysterical bonding).


I appreciate you sharing your experience. I’m sorry you went through this. It’s not easy. I’m on guard for those ominous thoughts.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> It is to some people. Some have divorced over an EA.


I agreed that it’s cheating. But personally I’d far rather forgive a lap dance than an emotional affair. 
And although I wouldn’t be at all amused, I could forgive a woman for childish nonsense like groping A stripper If and only if it were a one off, if she was sorry, and if she agreed to no strip clubs or “girls night out” ******** in the future.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have been to the grocery store and I'm not going to do your homework for you so give it up. Read the thread.


Far too often people on this forum are asked to prove where they found information - whether its like this or (quite often) in the political section. And the response is "go find it yourself", aka "it wasn't said and I don't want to admit that".


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Far too often people on this forum are asked to prove where they found information - whether its like this or (quite often) in the political section. And the response is "go find it yourself", aka "it wasn't said and I don't want to admit that".


And now we have a thread jack, all because somebody didn't like that someone else had a different opinion from them.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And now we have a thread jack, all because somebody didn't like that someone else had a different opinion from them.


Another deflection...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

bobert said:


> Another deflection...


The real deflection is pretending the situation isn’t what it is by quibbling over semantics.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)




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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> View attachment 85777


Aw, if it's any consolation I don't see you that way.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agreed that it’s cheating. But personally I’d far rather forgive a lap dance than an emotional affair.
> And although I wouldn’t be at all amused, I could forgive a woman for childish nonsense like groping A stripper If and only if it were a one off, if she was sorry, and if she agreed to no strip clubs or “girls night out” ****** in the future.


I guess everyone has different boundaries don't they.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Next threadjacker gets a ban.*


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## Personal Situation (7 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Men lie all the time and say there's no touching in strip clubs. They will lie and say "she's just dancing in front of me and I'm not allowed to touch her." What is actually happening is he is holding his hands to the side while she rubs him off with her breasts pressed against his face. He usually will fondle her breasts if she says it's ok. I'm sure when he was lying about other things, he told the OP that "nothing happens." It's all part of the "bro code."


Omg my husband told me the same ‘there’s no touching allowed’. Is that really what the strippers do in a private fully nude lap dance? So she titty ****s him? I’m at the point of getting separated from my husband ..because of his constant lying


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal Situation said:


> Omg my husband told me the same ‘there’s no touching allowed’. Is that really what the strippers do in a private fully nude lap dance? So she titty fks him? I’m at the point of getting separated from my husband ..because of his constant lying


He isn't allowed to touch her without her permission. She is allowed to touch him any way she (or he) wants. For the right amount of money he gets whatever he wants.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> In other words, “it didn’t mean anything, it’s different with you cause I luuurve you.” The clarion call of serial cheaters. I assume you’d be fine if your wife rubbed her naked body all over another man as long as it “didn’t mean anything?” Cause she loves you so it’s different.
> 
> Thankfully the OP seems too smart to listen to this terrible, dismissive advice.


Or she went to dance at a strip joint....it is just work after all. How would he like that?


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

It still amazes me guys waste money on strip clubs. I haven't been inside on in 30 years. Complete waste of money and morals.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> For the right amount of money he gets whatever he wants.


I disagree. 99% of the dancers only want guys to think that so they can get their money. Unless they've become total ***** houses since I went years ago. 

I didn't read the entire thread, but I wonder if this was a "high class" club or a sleazy one? The nicer the club, the less the chance of anything happening.

Not dismissing what happened. I think the guy was extremely disrespectful to his wife for going to a club. And it sounds like there are a lot of other issues too.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> You would both have to downsize of course to somewhere smaller.


Why?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Jane Doe 82 said:


> Thanks. I def. considered that. I don’t love them myself so I can imagine having to be the one wearing one. I considered this and researched what’s most preferred by men based on what’s out right now.
> I was trying to hype him to be able to come together without having to remove himself. It’s crazy hot about being able to reach orgasm together without withdrawal.
> Sorry, maybe this is too much for this forum? I’m still learning and I’m a little uninhibited speaking about sexuality. It’s human and a lot less weird and taboo than people feel.


For a while we used them. She was allergic to latex so we used Naturalamb. Seemed more sensitive that latex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

SCDad01 said:


> I disagree. 99% of the dancers only want guys to think that so they can get their money. Unless they've become total *** houses since I went years ago.
> 
> I didn't read the entire thread, but I wonder if this was a "high class" club or a sleazy one? The nicer the club, the less the chance of anything happening.
> 
> Not dismissing what happened. I think the guy was extremely disrespectful to his wife for going to a club. And it sounds like there are a lot of other issues too.


Only one I ever went to, you touch a dancer, bouncer removes you from club. Had a dancer, Jade, I used to dance(2 step) with at another night club, she wanted me to come by and introduce me to Shawnee. Said she told her she needed to find a tall cowboy that would treat her right.

Went once, um nope, Shawnee was hot, but can't stomach the mingling with the crowd part of her job. Dumb ass drunk buddy was a bit too handsy when putting money in one girls g-string and he got booted so I left with him as he was too drunk to care for himself. The Lucky Lady Saloon was outside the main gate of Ft. Sill Army base.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

bobert said:


> Some people here seem to have no clue what hysterical bonding feels like and how strong that urge is.


The one time I was cheated on, the only hysterical bonding I wanted is with how many 20-30 yr old girls I could bed in 6 months. It was not with the ex, I viewed her as vile and disgusting.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> The one time I was cheated on, the only hysterical bonding I wanted is with how many 20-30 yr old girls I could bed in 6 months. It was not with the ex, I viewed her as vile and disgusting.


Understandable. Doesn't mean either reaction is right or wrong though. 

I believe it took almost a month for hysterical bonding to start for me, and it very abruptly ended about two weeks later. Mid-sex I realized she was repulsive to me and stopped it. After that I didn't touch her for 6-7 months, and when I finally did it was forced and pretty awful. It's not an easy thing to come back from.


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