# To Love or Not to Love, that is the question.



## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi everyone, I am new to the site and would like to seek any advice you kind people can give me. I have been married for 7 years. We have 2 kids the youngest is 18 months. Our youngest has been quite a challenge - often waking up at night 4-5 times. After his birth my wife and I didn't have as much time for each other and being very tired did not help our intimacy. 

About 2 months ago I discovered that my wife had been having what I would call an EA with a guy she knew through work and who was also the father of our oldest child's best friend. She said all contact would stop and that she loved me and it was stupid etc. I tried to take her on dates and generally tried to reconnect with her. She just didn't seem all that into it. 

About a month ago I checked the phone records and found that they had still been talking although the frequency was much reduced - about 5 times over the whole month. I was livid and kicked her out of the house for the night. I felt that it was over, but she seemed to have a true change of heart and began showing me affection and said she really wanted our marriage to work. This seemed to last a little more than a week and then we had a fight about what happened. I still had feelings of anger over everything that had happened and regrettably let them out. After that she began to withdraw from me once again.

That brings us to the present day. When I ask her she will say things like - it is not you it is me. I really want to be in love with you but I don't know why I can't. I love you so much you are such a good husband and father I don't know why I can't get those feelings for you back. During the time she says these things she is sobbing and crying. Has anyone ever experienced this before? I don't believe she has had contact with the OM in the past month. She will also say ' I am trying really hard to get those feelings back'. 

I have tried a number of things like trying to have us sit and talk every night for at least 15 minutes- she didn't seem that into it. I've read the '5 love languages' and she started but still hasn't finished it. She has been to the doctor who said she has major depression. Perhaps this is the reason for everything?

At this point I just don't know what to do. I love my wife and I really want it to work out between us, but I feel like I am sitting on a fence waiting for her to make up her mind. Is it possible for her to get the 'in love' feeling for me back?

I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

OneManBand,

I loved your Thread Name, but I'm sad that you are here like me and so many others. Sometimes I ask myself the same question - knowing the pain of betrayal, is it worth it to love or not to love? 

Have you read the newbies thread? I would start with this and have your wife read it, too. Print it our for her:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

There is also a lot of info about the so-called "fog" that it sounds like your wife is in. Maybe try searching the term "fog" after reading through the Newbies link. 

Hang in there, and tell us more details about how she is responding. Did she completely disclose all details - write out a timeline of "events" or inappropriate communications? Did she write him a no-contact letter? So much to hear from you and you have so much to read on the newbies link!  Sadly, we welcome you to TAM.


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## Calling All Angels (Jan 3, 2013)

As I was reading I thought she has depression. And then bingo, the doctor has diagnosed this. I had this after my second child was born. Medication did the trick! Depression changes everything about you and your wife will continue to feel the same if she does not get the right medication to balance her out. I could not find joy in anything for 18 months. 

Before you throw your marriage away, see if this would help her. When she says "it's not you it's me" she is right and she will do stupid things to try to find happiness. In her world it's lonely, confusing and hopeless. Please don't ignore depression, it won't go away by itself IMO


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What is she doing to be accountable for her time right now? Do you have access to all her online activities, her phone, etc? How do you know it never went PA? How do you know she isn't still in contact with this OM, or another one?? And, I am sorry, but you have every right to be angry at her, and she darned well better know that.

And yes, please read the newbie link. There are very specific things a WS needs to do to prove they are even worth trying R with.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to the site and would like to seek any advice you kind people can give me. I have been married for 7 years. We have 2 kids the youngest is 18 months. Our youngest has been quite a challenge - often waking up at night 4-5 times. After his birth my wife and I didn't have as much time for each other and being very tired did not help our intimacy.
> 
> About 2 months ago I discovered that my wife had been having what I would call an EA with a guy she knew through work and who was also the father of our oldest child's best friend. She said all contact would stop and that she loved me and it was stupid etc. I tried to take her on dates and generally tried to reconnect with her. She just didn't seem all that into it.
> 
> ...


I wrote this is another thread and I think it applies to your situation:



> ...It's hardly profound to say that a woman's emotional psyche is basically composed of her desire to be desired and her desire to nurture. The excitation of the former, combined with the thrill of the illicit relationships, is why the affair provokes such a powerful drive. Very often, when I hear a WW assert that she still has feelings for her husband, I believe that what she means is that she still has the desire to nurture her BH. This essentially sexless relationship is co-equal to that of a mother and child and, since such a relationship does not require emotional exclusivity, allows her to believe, however falsely, that she can love two men at the same time.


Again, grain of salt because I'm definitely not a psychologist but I definitely think it holds water.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to the site and would like to seek any advice you kind people can give me. I have been married for 7 years. We have 2 kids the youngest is 18 months. Our youngest has been quite a challenge - often waking up at night 4-5 times. After his birth my wife and I didn't have as much time for each other and being very tired did not help our intimacy.
> 
> About 2 months ago I discovered that my wife had been having what I would call an EA with a guy she knew through work and who was also the father of our oldest child's best friend. She said all contact would stop and that she loved me and it was stupid etc. I tried to take her on dates and generally tried to reconnect with her. She just didn't seem all that into it.
> 
> ...


Post Partum or post natal depression can last for months or even years. Has this been checked for?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> I really want to be in love with you but I don't know why I can't. I love you so much you are such a good husband and father I don't know why I can't get those feelings for you back. During the time she says these things she is sobbing and crying. Has anyone ever experienced this before? I don't believe she has had contact with the OM in the past month. She will also say ' I am trying really hard to get those feelings back'.


I have felt this way so it's certainly a real feeling to have. Hopefully she can find a doctor to help her with the depression as well as a therapist that she can talk to and you both can meet with as well. That's the key and if the first therapist doesn't work, find another one.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Thank you for the kind welcome totallyunexpected. I also like your handle as it is exactly how I felt when this all happened.

I have read the newbie's link, thank you. I haven't had my wife read it yet. She hasn't written out a timeline or a no contact letter, but about a month ago she seemed to show true remorse and seemed totally into making our marriage work. She promised that there would be no contact. And I believed it to be so.

After that she just started to drift away again. She stopped initiating holding hands, will usually only say I love you if I say it first. Things like that. We haven't had sex in the past month. The last time we did she said she felt nervous and I could tell she was not into it so I haven't really brought it up since then. After having kids our intimacy level definitely dropped, but she would still hold hands and at least occasionally showed interest in sex. Now, I just feel that any time she touches me or kisses me it is just perfunctory or because she feels like that is what she is supposed to be doing. I don't know if that makes sense, but I don't feel any real emotion behind it.

After I found out about the EA she told me she hadn't really been interested in sex for a long time. She told me that she just didn't feel connected to me any more -that she felt like we were just 2 caregivers. That we just don't have anything in common to talk about. 

Now, that seems to me a little different that what she said before the EA happened. She would often complain that she never had time for herself, so I told her I would support her if she found a hobby or wanted to take a class or do anything that she wanted. She said she felt tired-so I let often let her take naps while I watched the kids. She did say she was unhappy and maybe we should go to counseling. I agreed to go to counseling, but unfortunately it didn't happen. When I asked her why she was unhappy she would just say 'I don't know'. At that point I did get frustrated and just told her she was responsible for her own happiness. That I would help her anyway I could, but she had to let me know how. I think I did begin to withdraw from her at that point and I now really regret doing so. Now, that is my opinion and ofcourse she may well have a different view of what happened. I think the main problem was that we didn't communicate very well. 

Now after the EA I have tried to talk to her more, but often feel she doesn't really want to talk about things. She will say she 'just doesn't know how she feels' or ,like I said before, 'you didn't do anything, it's just me.' If I bring up the EA or show any anger about it she tells me 'I just don't know if you are ever going to get over it' or 'I don't want to talk about it anymore, you are either going to get over it or not.' She has on a number of occasions has said that she is 'sorry' and 'there is no excuse for what I did'. I do think she feels bad about what happened, but then tends to minimize it by saying 'What I did wasn't even that bad compared to other people', or 'we mainly talked just about work or our kids or our marriages.' 

Wow, sorry about all the rambling, I feel like I could write a novel, but I bet that everyone does.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Calling All Angels said:


> As I was reading I thought she has depression. And then bingo, the doctor has diagnosed this. I had this after my second child was born. Medication did the trick! Depression changes everything about you and your wife will continue to feel the same if she does not get the right medication to balance her out. I could not find joy in anything for 18 months.
> 
> Before you throw your marriage away, see if this would help her. When she says "it's not you it's me" she is right and she will do stupid things to try to find happiness. In her world it's lonely, confusing and hopeless. Please don't ignore depression, it won't go away by itself IMO


Thank you, that gives me some hope. My wife started taking lexapro, but didn't like at all how it made her feel so she is now going to start taking zoloft. I really hope that it will help her. I really don't want to give up on my marriage. I just feel that at some point if her attitude cannot be changed, it is just not going to work.

I did mention to her that it may be post-partum depression, but she didn't really seem to have an opinion about it. I think that it is true that she just doesn't know. I have to admit that it is hard for me to understand because I have never been that way.

We did start going to a counselor individually first and then together. After a few sessions my wife said she didn't like that counselor so we then found another. We have only had one session with the new counselor so we'll see how that goes.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> I wrote this is another thread and I think it applies to your situation:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, grain of salt because I'm definitely not a psychologist but I definitely think it holds water.


Hi JMGrey. I think your quote could very well be right on the money. Since I found out about the EA she has done more stuff for me, sometimes even doting. I once told her 'it just seems that you don't love me anymore'. She replied 'but look at all the things I do for you.' Now I really appreciate her doing things for me, but ofcourse that is not really what I would like to hear. Since we have had kids she has been very focused on being a good mom. Maybe I somehow slid into that compartment in her mind as well. I just wish I knew how to get out of it!


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> What is she doing to be accountable for her time right now? Do you have access to all her online activities, her phone, etc? How do you know it never went PA? How do you know she isn't still in contact with this OM, or another one?? And, I am sorry, but you have every right to be angry at her, and she darned well better know that.
> 
> And yes, please read the newbie link. There are very specific things a WS needs to do to prove they are even worth trying R with.


I have access to her cell phone. I can check the call and text logs and haven't found anything suspicious. She has told me that she would let me know if there was any contact. Ofcourse I have no way of knowing for absolute certainty that this is true. She works 20 hours a week and has not been staying late or anything. I have shown up a couple of times unnannounced at her work. At one point I ran into the OM and told him to 'Stay the **** away from my wife.' I know, probably not the most level headed thing to do. I also contacted his wife. All of my wife's family and friends know so I would find it very surprising if she would risk all of those relationships as well as ours. The only way they could be in contact is if they have taken it very underground. But how would I know unless I hired a PI or sat outside her work all day?

I also do not know for absolute certainty that it never went PA. She has sworn up and down that nothing physical happened. Also, there just doesn't seem to be much opportunity. I knew of her whereabouts pretty much all of the time. The only time I can think of that I can't be sure about is that she went clothes shopping and came back with nothing saying she didn't find anything she liked. She was gone about an hour. So again I can't be absolutely certain, but how would I know unless she admitted it?

She has admitted that I have every right to be angry, but what makes me even angrier sometimes is when she says things like 'you just don't seem like you're ever going to get over it' I think, and have told her, 'hell no, I'm not going to get over it until I am 100% convinced that you are committed to me and making our marriage work.' She will then just nod her head. 

I have read the newbie link. I haven't had her do some of the things listed there, but I probably will. What do you think are the specific things she should need to do to prove that she is worth trying to R with?

Thank you.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> Hi JMGrey. I think your quote could very well be right on the money. Since I found out about the EA she has done more stuff for me, sometimes even doting. I once told her 'it just seems that you don't love me anymore'. She replied 'but look at all the things I do for you.' Now I really appreciate her doing things for me, but ofcourse that is not really what I would like to hear. Since we have had kids she has been very focused on being a good mom. Maybe I somehow slid into that compartment in her mind as well. I just wish I knew how to get out of it!


OMB,

You didn't "slide" into that mental compartment. It didn't have anything to do with you. As soon as your wife began transferring her emotional fidelity to the OM, the only way she could tolerate it subconsciously was to move you into that role. In essence, she has left you with the "mother" part of herself and gave the "wife" part of herself to the OM.

Also, if they've had frequent physical contact (same place at the same time) and the EA is relatively recent (say less than 8 - 12 months), you can almost bank on there having been a PA, probably up to and including sex, as they were still in the "honeymoon period".


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There's another link in my sig about understanding the pain. That's for her. That's what she's done to you. She has GOT to understand the level of betrayal she has caused here and start DOING things, everything she can to help you get over it and to make sure it NEVER happens again. By saying things like "You're never going to get over it" she's downplaying what she did - rugsweeping. That is a huge no-no.

She should be falling over herself right now to prove to you she's stopped all contact with him. She should be finding another job and writing a no contact letter to him. Read up on that.

Make absolutely sure that your counselor isn't also rugsweeping what happened. And also make sure that no one - her or the counselor - places any blame whatsoever on you for her cheating. There are two separate issues here: 1) the state of your marriage and what you each chose to do about it, and 2) the fact that she CHOSE to cheat. Everyone has 4 choices when their marriage sucks:
- do nothing
- divorce
- cheat
- work on it

There are two reasons I think our R is so successful so far. I say so far because I don't believe it will ever be 'over'. We will always be living post-affair. It's like living after a war or the death of a loved one or a cataclysmic event like 911. Everything gets talked about as 'before' or 'after'.

Anyway. Two reasons. The first is that I let him go, or rather kicked him out. I was DONE. I hated him and never wanted to lay eyes on him again. What he did spelled the end of our marriage. This freed me up to work on myself. I went to IC and changed some things up around the house and lived with just the kids again (I was also a single mom for 7 years when they were little) and I realized that I actually liked it. I liked myself and I liked my life. This in turn led to the discovery that, if I had the choice, I actually DID want him in my life. I actually did love him. This surprised me, because it was a complete 180 from the way I felt on D day. So I decided that we would try R.

The second reason is the way he is now. There is VERY little he hasn't done that a WS should and needs to do. He owns his sh!t. He works hard every day to help me recover and to keep our marriage getting better. And he does it all with an attitude of remorse. He doesn't balk at what he needs to do. Even this long past the first Dday I can tell him that something triggered me and he is apologetic and fusses over me. The fact he is this way has meant that I can be that way with him too, when he needs me to be.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There is really one answer to your dilemma. It's the answer that makes her work hard at doing the things she needs to do. It's the answer that makes her gain respect and admiration for you. It's the answer that attracts her to you.

What that answer is... You pursue a divorce. Talk to a lawyer and file. And tell her repeatedly that she has the power to stop it by acting like a wife. And constantly offer her the choice.. Make things right and you will stop.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> OMB,
> 
> You didn't "slide" into that mental compartment. It didn't have anything to do with you. As soon as your wife began transferring her emotional fidelity to the OM, the only way she could tolerate it subconsciously was to move you into that role. In essence, she has left you with the "mother" part of herself and gave the "wife" part of herself to the OM.
> 
> Also, if they've had frequent physical contact (same place at the same time) and the EA is relatively recent (say less than 8 - 12 months), you can almost bank on there having been a PA, probably up to and including sex, as they were still in the "honeymoon period".


I believe that you are spot on. When I looked back at phone records etc. It appears that the whole thing started late September. They didn't talk very much until around the middle of October which was also when I started to get suspicious and had the feeling that my wife was acting 'wierd'. She was texting all the time, but when I asked her she would say it was her sister or aunt. finally around November 6 I found out about it. They were seen together in his work vehicle. So the EA was short as far as I know, and I do have suspicions that something physical did happen or it was about to. I just may never know for sure since my wife insists that nothing physical at all happened. 

The problem is that even with NC they will inevitably come into contact in some way at work. Maybe just in the parking lot or something accidental. My wife says she will tell him she doesn't want to talk to him anymore, but can that really be believed? I don't know.

I have asked her to try to find another job, but finding a good one that will still allow us to pay all of our bills is easier said than done. She has looked at some jobs, but I feel like it is something that she feels she has to do because I asked, not because she really wants to.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hicks said:


> There is really one answer to your dilemma. It's the answer that makes her work hard at doing the things she needs to do. It's the answer that makes her gain respect and admiration for you. It's the answer that attracts her to you.
> 
> What that answer is... You pursue a divorce. Talk to a lawyer and file. And tell her repeatedly that she has the power to stop it by acting like a wife. And constantly offer her the choice.. Make things right and you will stop.


Hicks,
I think you are probably right. As hard as it is for me to admit I feel that in some ways I have acted like a doormat. I think that she lost respect for me and in the process of trying to please her and my children I sort of lost myself.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OneManBand said:


> The problem is that even with NC they will inevitably come into contact in some way at work. Maybe just in the parking lot or something accidental. My wife says she will tell him she doesn't want to talk to him anymore, but can that really be believed?


 Of course not. She hasn't told you the whole truth yet, and she has no intention of doing so.



OneManBand said:


> I have asked her to try to find another job, but finding a good one that will still allow us to pay all of our bills is easier said than done. She has looked at some jobs, but I feel like it is something that she feels she has to do because I asked, not because she really wants to.


First off, you don't ask - you TELL. It's either a new job or divorce.

Secondly, that attitude means R has absolutely no hope. If the WS is continuously resentful about having to do the heavy lifting, they are NOT truly remorseful. A wee bit of resentment, short lived and quickly followed up with an apology, MIGHT be ok, but having the attitude that she's only doing it because she has to?? Forget it.

File.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

OMB - your story is so similar to so many people on this forum, including me. For a betrayed husband who get the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech it is the hardest thing in the world to digest. And I truly believe that once a woman feels that way, it is a long road back. So even though it is raw and fresh for you, your wife may have felt this way for months or years before you. That's why she can be clinical and detached and ignore your efforts.

I'll tell you what I did - because it was the wrong thing. I tried to R with my stbxw, and she continued to hide her PA during our false R. During R, we went out, we went on vacations, we talked, we even had great sex. But the elephant in the room was never dealt with. For almost three years. We are now separated and she admitted to the PA AFTER we separated. Now, this doesn't mean your wife had a PA and is lying to you - but consider your own feelings and suspicions and the fact that your wife is now a skilled liar (as all betraying spouses are).

What I should have done, and what I recommend you do, is separate NOW instead of letting things fester. Letting things fester only makes it harder down the road. If your wife is not willing to work, not willing to take ownership and be honest then you need to move on. Either it will jolt her out of the fog, or it won't. Either way - you can use the time to work on yourself and take care of YOU.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Cedarman said:


> OMB - your story is so similar to so many people on this forum, including me. For a betrayed husband who get the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech it is the hardest thing in the world to digest. And I truly believe that once a woman feels that way, it is a long road back. So even though it is raw and fresh for you, your wife may have felt this way for months or years before you. That's why she can be clinical and detached and ignore your efforts.
> 
> I'll tell you what I did - because it was the wrong thing. I tried to R with my stbxw, and she continued to hide her PA during our false R. During R, we went out, we went on vacations, we talked, we even had great sex. But the elephant in the room was never dealt with. For almost three years. We are now separated and she admitted to the PA AFTER we separated. Now, this doesn't mean your wife had a PA and is lying to you - but consider your own feelings and suspicions and the fact that your wife is now a skilled liar (as all betraying spouses are).
> 
> What I should have done, and what I recommend you do, is separate NOW instead of letting things fester. Letting things fester only makes it harder down the road. If your wife is not willing to work, not willing to take ownership and be honest then you need to move on. Either it will jolt her out of the fog, or it won't. Either way - you can use the time to work on yourself and take care of YOU.


Hello Cedarman, I am very sorry to hear about your story :-( I I believe your advice as well as that of Hicks and Hope1964 is probably the only way to go. 

In fact I have began going down that road. Here is what happened. The other night we had a few drinks and she said once again 'I want to have those feelings, but just don't know how. I asked 'Is it because you are still thinking about this other guy'? She hesitated and then said 'I don't know'. Arrrrgh!
I felt like two months of me trying everything to help our marriage was of absolutely no use. Now she will say, 'I meant no' and 'I was drunk' -- whatever!

So last night I finally just said. I am going to give us until the end of the month to see if the zoloft works. If you can't be totally truthful about how your feeling and start acting like MY wife then I will file for divorce. She was quite angry at first and said things like 'I've already said I am done talking about what happened'. 'Well my opinion of you has changed too' referring to some things that I said when I was angry. 

She threatened to spend the night at a girlfriends which I sort of think was a bluff to try to make me say 'Oh no please don't go'. 

Now, this morning she seems to be trying to act like nothing happened. I've had enough of her manipulative crap.

Thank you again for your advice.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Good for you!! now stick to your guns 

You are spot on when you say she wanted you to beg her not to go to her girlfriends. Hopefully you told her to go. Did she?


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> They were seen together in his work vehicle. So the EA was short as far as I know, and I do have suspicions that something physical did happen or it was about to. I just may never know for sure since my wife insists that nothing physical at all happened.


Something physical happened. Once a conscious decision is made and an act, criminal or immoral, has been sufficiently rationalized then it's commission becomes a matter of means, motive and opportunity. If they've already been seen alone in a car, then I'd place the probability as high as 95% that _some_ kind of physical infidelity has occurred. In what manner did the reporting person see them in the car? Getting in or out? Sitting and talking? Car running or off? Car leaving or returning. Especially in the last incidence, then I find it very likely that they were going to or returning from a sexual encounter.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> In fact I have began going down that road. Here is what happened. The other night we had a few drinks and she said once again 'I want to have those feelings, but just don't know how. I asked 'Is it because you are still thinking about this other guy'? She hesitated and then said 'I don't know'. Arrrrgh!
> I felt like two months of me trying everything to help our marriage was of absolutely no use. Now she will say, 'I meant no' and 'I was drunk' -- whatever!



I think the problem is, when you try too hard it feels artificial and forced. That was the problem during my false R. Nothing felt natural and effortless like it used to be.

(I should point out - because I wasn't clear above - during our false R, my wife was not in an active PA - she was hiding the fact that her EA started in 2008 became a PA in 2009 and ended after 4 months. We spent the next - almost 3 years dealing with what I thought was "just" an EA. It was the secret of her past PA which killed any hope of reconciling.)

Anyway, to re-kindle love you have to work on yourself - work on getting yourself to a position where YOU are happy with your life and if your stbxw notices - it's a bonus (or you may realize that you no longer want your wife anymore - in which case, you're still happy). If you try too hard all it does is make the WS think he/she is entitled to your attention and makes them continue to think the grass is greener. 

It's a tough pill to swallow - but you have to let them go to have any hope of getting them back. And at the end of your journey you may decide you don't want her back....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Working with the OM is like getting a new fix on drug every time she sees him. Have you talked to her HR dept? There is no way you can break her affair up as long as they are working/seeing each other. If she wants to reconnect she HAS to quit.

What did his wife say?

Here is a link to a quiz you can take (supposedly) to see if she may have post partum depression.

Postpartum Depression Screening Quiz

The affair is still on her in any event.

What was the situation with her being in his truck?

What did he say when you confronted him?


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## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

OneManBand said:


> That brings us to the present day. When I ask her she will say things like - it is not you it is me. I really want to be in love with you but I don't know why I can't. I love you so much you are such a good husband and father I don't know why I can't get those feelings for you back. During the time she says these things she is sobbing and crying. Has anyone ever experienced this before? I don't believe she has had contact with the OM in the past month. She will also say ' I am trying really hard to get those feelings back'.
> 
> I have tried a number of things like trying to have us sit and talk every night for at least 15 minutes- she didn't seem that into it. I've read the '5 love languages' and she started but still hasn't finished it. She has been to the doctor who said she has major depression. Perhaps this is the reason for everything?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, friend, but she is in the middle of an affair. That's why your efforts aren't working. You need to expose the affair - who is the OM? 

As long as she is having her affair, any efforts you make will be for naught. 

That whole 'postpartum' thing? I was there, too, after my first child's birth. I didn't screw around on my husband because of it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OMB

Never be her Plan B. Remember that.

Also this:



> Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you. If someone wants you in their life, they'll make room for you. You shouldn't have to fight for a spot. Never ever insist yourself on someone who continuously over looks your worth.


Do not sell yourself short.

HM64


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Good for you!! now stick to your guns
> 
> You are spot on when you say she wanted you to beg her not to go to her girlfriends. Hopefully you told her to go. Did she?


She didn't end up going. When she said she was going to go I said 'go ahead'. She then said 'Do you want me to go'? I replied 'I don't care, do what you want'. Later she told me that her girlfriend wouldn't be home until very late, so she couldn't go. Thank you for the support.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Cedarman said:


> I think the problem is, when you try too hard it feels artificial and forced. That was the problem during my false R. Nothing felt natural and effortless like it used to be.
> 
> (I should point out - because I wasn't clear above - during our false R, my wife was not in an active PA - she was hiding the fact that her EA started in 2008 became a PA in 2009 and ended after 4 months. We spent the next - almost 3 years dealing with what I thought was "just" an EA. It was the secret of her past PA which killed any hope of reconciling.)
> 
> ...


Thank you for the clarification. How did you end up finding out about the PA? 

I think you are absolutely right and thank you for the advice. I do feel that I have been trying too hard and she just takes it for granted. I actually feel better now that I told her I would begin moving toward divorce if things did not change.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Something physical happened. Once a conscious decision is made and an act, criminal or immoral, has been sufficiently rationalized then it's commission becomes a matter of means, motive and opportunity. If they've already been seen alone in a car, then I'd place the probability as high as 95% that _some_ kind of physical infidelity has occurred. In what manner did the reporting person see them in the car? Getting in or out? Sitting and talking? Car running or off? Car leaving or returning. Especially in the last incidence, then I find it very likely that they were going to or returning from a sexual encounter.


They were seen at a work site so other people were around. They were apparently sitting and talking. My wife told me that her boss wanted to take some paperwork out to him. My wife normally tells her sister everything, but her sister later told me that she was told they were no longer in contact. So, my wife, at that point, had began to hide it even from her sister. I did talk to my wife less than an hour before they were seen and she was at work. So, I really don't think that it was going to or returning from a sexual encounter.

My wife swears that nothing at all physical happened, but I do have my suspicions that something like kissing etc. happened.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

If she would cheat on lying about it would be no big deal either...

Can you recover her deleted texts? What phone does she have ? Cheating spouse just switch phones when continuing the affair..One here on this forum bought a second phone. Another just used her work phone to continue the affair.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read MMSL? Get the book immediately if not(downloadable).. What is your dealbreaker?

You can't nice a person back into loving you, however, you can attract them back by manning up in most cases, thus MMSL

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

What are you now doing to verify? She works with OM?



Here is a repost

_Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You also need to get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and give to your wife to read. This and MMSL are the two most imptortant books recommended here. You need to read them both.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Make sure she know you still lover and you are willing to work this out. Most importantly she needs to be convinced you can also move on and find real happiness. Doesn't hurt to let her know other women are checking you out. No you don't know how they have found out about your marriage troubles, BTW.

Right now, get a new style haircut, workout(weights) new clothes and cologne, diet if she hasn't already caused you to shed enough weight worrrying. And disappear every once in a while.

See doctor for meds and considr counseling. PTSD and infidelity experienced counselor a must unless you are sure you do not need it.

Be cheerful, confident and strong no matter how much it hurts. Grieve in private. Leave the house if you have to but do not show weakness, the OM never does, he can take it or leave it. Thats why the cheating wife tries to please him so hard.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Print this off and go over it with her. 

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! *


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

chapparal said:


> Working with the OM is like getting a new fix on drug every time she sees him. Have you talked to her HR dept? There is no way you can break her affair up as long as they are working/seeing each other. If she wants to reconnect she HAS to quit.
> 
> What did his wife say?
> 
> ...


Chapparal,

Thank you for all of your advice. I have been trying to follow most of it. 

I have finally come to the point where I really decided that I would be happy no matter what happens. I am comfortable with the fact that our marriage may not work out and in fact I may not want it too. I may not be able to get past the lying. We'll see, if it feels right then good, but if not then we separate.
In the past few days my wife has been being quite a bit more affectionate toward me.

When I talked to his wife she didn't seem very upset. Apparently he had already told her that nothing had happened. However, at the end of our conversation I could tell she was getting a little upset.

As for the truck situation, my wife stopped at his work site so there were other people around. She said her boss asked her to drop off some paperwork and she was only there about 10 minutes. I happen to know, however, that she was there for at least 30-40 minutes according to my 'witness'. 

As another example of what I think is lying. Shortly after I found out about the EA she changed her contact name for me in her cell phone from a term of endearment to my actual name. When I asked her why she did this she said "I don't know, I don't really even remember doing it." Come on - I would think she knows exactly why. It's just a small thing, but if those type of lies continue then I don't know if I can see this marriage continuing. 

As for the confrontation. I saw him in the parking lot. He started coming toward me then said 'Hi' in a friendly tone which really made me angry. I replied ' Stay the **** away from my wife." He seemed kind of shocked then said "that's the plan" and walked away.

According to the phone records he then called my wife a few days later after which I confronted my wife and I don't believe that they have had any contact since then, but, ofcourse, I could be wrong.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Glad you told him to stay away from your wife, many here think thats to "harsh".

Keep a journal of the little lies and other things too.

When you hear something odd ask her if its another lie. Let her know you have been counting up her"little" lies and you have solid proof of her lying. Do not tell her what they are so she won't know what you know. Give her one example like," I know you were in the parking lot much longer than ten minutes." If she insists its true tell her "you or my source is lying, guess who I believe after the other lies you have told".


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

chapparal said:


> Glad you told him to stay away from your wife, many here think thats to "harsh".
> 
> You know, after I said that I actually felt bad for a short time. Like I was a jerk or something. Now, I agree that it wasn't the most 'civilized' thing to say, but I do not regret it at all. It was exactly what I was feeling at the moment and I feel that I was trying to protect my marriage and family.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> chapparal said:
> 
> 
> > Glad you told him to stay away from your wife, many here think thats to "harsh".
> ...


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks happyman64.

I won't tell you what I wanted to do.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

So my wife just finished reading 'The 5 Love Languages' which I finished over a month ago. Our MC supported this and gave us the husband and wife profiles to fill out. My top two languages were Physical Touch and Quality Time whereas my wife's were Acts of Service and Words of Affirmation. 

Now I had hoped that doing this exercise would make me feel better, but actually I am feeling even more confused. The point is that I feel I have done a lot of Acts of Service throughout our marriage. For Example, I often let her take a nap while I watch the kids, I often run to the store for her, help with any projects around the house etc. 

As for words of affirmation I have always told her I love you, you are beautiful, you are so good at your job. She would often reply - you are only saying that because you are my husband. 

So I am now thinking WTF, How do I please this woman?

Anyway, thank you for listening just wanted to rant a little.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It doesn't mean you haven't been doing it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

That book is incredibly helpful... But.... It's not helping you allthat much at the moment.

Rather than pay attention to her questionaire. Pay attention to HER. Do things and observe. What you need to try to do is specific things to see if she smiles and reacts happy in a genuine way, or does she ignore it, or does she get mad.

Obviously a huge part of your problem is a baby waking up 4-5 times per night. Is this good for your marriage? What is more important for your child? Having every cry be attended to or is it having an intact family to grow up in? You have to step up and end the baby waking up 4-5 times per night at 18 months. You have to make your wife see that this is harmful to the child becuase it is assisting with the destruction of it's family (your wife will resist out of guilt)... 

YOu have to figure out how to get babysitters and get your wife and you away from the kids and having fun times together.

If your wife says "you only say that becuase you're my husband" I would recommend you firmly say "Wife, I never want to hear you say that again".


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good point Hicks.



> She would often reply - you are only saying that because you are my husband.


Mrs. Happy tried that on me once.

My response: "Would you rather hear it from someone else?" She responded "No". 

Never take a crappy answer without a response. You need to make her think.......

Think of you.....


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

I want to address an earlier post since I've been in the situation before.


OneManBand said:


> That brings us to the present day. When I ask her she will say things like - it is not you it is me. I really want to be in love with you but I don't know why I can't. I love you so much you are such a good husband and father I don't know why I can't get those feelings for you back. During the time she says these things she is sobbing and crying. Has anyone ever experienced this before? I don't believe she has had contact with the OM in the past month. She will also say ' I am trying really hard to get those feelings back'.


My W said all this at one time and I was just as confused about it at the time as you are now. I tried to be patient with her and waited for the feelings to return only to have her run off with the OM again 6 months later. 

The problem as other people brought up is that she is still fantasying about the OM. When they are in an A (and she still is in her head) they will see the BS and the M in a negative light in order to justify feelings for being in an A. Nothing you do no matter how good will change her mind. They need to believe they had a good excuse for crossing the line.

We want what we can’t have and don’t appreciate what comes easy. This is why being the “nice guy” tends to fail as far as getting them to focus back on the M. Being there and doing things for her actually work against you, it makes her feel guilty and makes you look weak for “rewarding” her for having an A. If you read enough stories you’ll see they ones where the BS put their foot down and kicks them to the curb end up with remorseful WSs while the one trying to work things out end up in false Rs.

Slap her across the head with D papers and tell her you never want to see her face again and you’ll see how quickly she falls back in love with you.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> I want to address an earlier post since I've been in the situation before.
> 
> 
> My W said all this at one time and I was just as confused about it at the time as you are now. I tried to be patient with her and waited for the feelings to return only to have her run off with the OM again 6 months later.
> ...


:iagree:Might be time to shock her out of this "fog" with divorce papers manning up so to speak.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Juan speaks the truth.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

ArmyofJuan said:


> I want to address an earlier post since I've been in the situation before.
> 
> 
> My W said all this at one time and I was just as confused about it at the time as you are now. I tried to be patient with her and waited for the feelings to return only to have her run off with the OM again 6 months later.
> ...


I agree with you Juan. Thank you for your advice. I told her that if things didn't change I would file for divorce at the end of the month. That was about a week ago. At that time she said she would do anything, but the only thing that has changed in the last week is that she will sometimes touch me or grab my hand. She said at that time she was feeling that the OM was an 'a-hole'. Then a couple of days ago in MC she said she did still misses talking to him. She will say that she has also tried to show her love for me by doing things for me - laundry etc. but she has always done things like that and it just isn't enough. 

I know what I have to do. I just wish I had done it immediately after I found out about the EA or that they were still talking to one another. I think she will say well you were being so nice now why are you being such a jerk?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

ArmyofJuan said:


> Slap her across the head with D papers and tell her you never want to see her face again and you’ll see how quickly she falls back in love with you.


Really wish more people would go this route from the start. It doesn't mean you actually have to go through with it but it seems more effective than threats backed up with absolutely no action which seems to happen far too frequently with BS. 

How many times can you threaten someone with consequences you never follow through over a period of months (or in some cases I've read years), keep giving ultimatums with timelines that you continuously push back and expect the WS to take you seriously??

Anyway it sounds like you're heading in the right direction OneManBand. Keep it up:smthumbup:


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Start doing your thing. Hit the gum. Start going out a few days a week, dressed to kill. New haircut, new clothes. Don't explain a thing. Stay MIA a few hours.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Have you exposed to OMW?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Cdelta02 said:


> Have you exposed to OMW?


Nothing says I'll fight for you and my family like throwing the om under the bus. It makes you look like you won't be walked on too.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

I did contact the OMW right after I found out. 
I will probably be contacting her again, but first let me tell you why.

My wife occasionally smokes. When she does she stands outside our bedroom window. I feel guilty about admitting this, but a couple of times I have spied on her through that window. The main reason is that she always takes here LG Marquee smartphone with her. She always takes it to the bathroom at all times even when she showers. This made me suspicious. 

One of the times I spied I could kind of see the screen. She was looking at the phone the entire time(about 10 minutes) and using her thumb. Right before she came back in she turned the phone vertical and I could see her choose an app upon which text appeared. I could see what the text was or what app. I assumed it must be gmail. 

Now, last night she was smoking more than usual. She spent two long periods in the bathroom - saying her tummy was upset. She had the phone with her every time. I asked her why do you take your phone with you to the bathroom and outside. She said I play solitaire. Now, we live in a place where the temperature is quite cold. I just feel bad about this answer - playing solitaire while smoking a cigarette in freezing temperatures?

In any case I got up early and looked at her phone. When I pressed the unlock button I saw her gmail account open and a white screen that said 'No Conversations'. When she woke up I asked her why this was. She tried to take the phone away from me even saying if I didn't give her the phone she would call the police. I said let's trade phones for the day so I know for sure you are not in contact with OM. She flatly refused saying I was crazy. 

Now call me crazy, but it is all very fishy? She said that the No conversations just comes up when she opens her gmail. Is that at all true? I don't use gmail and don't have a smartphone anymore so I am not sure.

So, More than Likely I will be contacting the OMW again and I am beginning the process of separating and filing for divorce. It's just really hard to do due to the kids


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yep big red flags there, sorry man.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Why contact the OMW again?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I guess she forgot the part that there are no secrets in a marriage!


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

I want to contact the OMW because I didn't contact her again after I found out they were still in contact a month ago.

Also, my wife is supposed to go to a conference for work at the end of the month. I would like to ask the OMW if her husband might be going to that conference. Is that a good idea?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OMB

Next time hit the Done button or go back to the inbox in the gmail app. I think she deleted her messages.

If she did go to the sent or trash folders.

HM64


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Things have not changed. She is still at it. File for D NOW. Kick her out. She needs a wake up call!!!

As for the work conference, she should be telling you whether the OM will be there. If you have to find out some other way, there's a huge problem here.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't really see the point. Even if you contacted her and she said "Yes" what would you do?

It doesn't even sound like your wife has stopped the affair anyway.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Of course she is still texting him.
You are assured that she is still cheating if she is holding her phone... 

If she is doing things that seem like affiar, then it is an affair... Dont' converse with her or spy on her.. File for divorce and don't stop until her behavior is consistent with a married woman.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Things have not changed. She is still at it. File for D NOW. Kick her out. She needs a wake up call!!!
> 
> As for the work conference, she should be telling you whether the OM will be there. If you have to find out some other way, there's a huge problem here.


May as well file you know she's still in contact kick her out how much more lack of remorse/respect can you put up with?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Of course she is still texting him.
> You are assured that she is still cheating if she is holding her phone...
> 
> If she is doing things that seem like affiar, then it is an affair... Dont' converse with her or spy on her.. *File for divorce and don't stop until her behavior is consistent with a married woman.*


:iagree:

And don't believe what she says just because it's coming out of her mouth. Cheaters in the midst of an affair are like drug addicts. They'll say or do what they need to to keep their fix.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

They never stoped, that's way you never had a chance.
Her cold attitude speak for herself.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why did you give her her phone back? Are you a timid person?

Why would you not call the OMW? You really puzzle me, its like you are afraid of her and him.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

I gave her phone back mainly because my daughter was right there and my wife was not stopping talking about calling the police. I didn't want to fight anymore right in front of her especially as she was starting to cry.

I am also taking the fact that she would not let me keep the phone for the day as an admission of guilt and I told this to my wife.

I am filing for divorce as soon as possible. I told my wife that and that she needs to find a place to stay.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

I did call the OMW the first time. I really don't know why I didn't call the second time. I was just stupid I guess and really wanted to believe what my wife was telling me. Just complete stupidity.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

OneManBand said:


> I gave her phone back mainly because my daughter was right there and my wife was not stopping talking about calling the police. I didn't want to fight anymore right in front of her especially as she was starting to cry.
> 
> I am also taking the fact that she would not let me keep the phone for the day as an admission of guilt and I told this to my wife.
> 
> I am filing for divorce as soon as possible. I told my wife that and that she needs to find a place to stay.


Make sure you STICK WITH IT. If she comes back with talk of R, and she sounds like she probably won't, do not cave. If you make a threat/ultimatum follow through on it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> I am filing for divorce as soon as possible. I told my wife that and that she needs to find a place to stay.


And her reaction was?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Acabado said:


> And her reaction was?


What did she say after you told her to find a place?


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi everyobdy. Thank you for your advice and sorry I haven't posted for a while. 

I just feel like venting again. After our last episode in which I told my wife I wanted her to leave we had many discussions and I came to believe her and decided to try to work things out. Yes, I know that I have not followed a number of peoples advice, but I do love her and I decided that at least for my kids sakes I needed to try. 

Over the past few weeks things have been much better. We have been talking much more and she is showing much more affection. 

The only department which I have had trouble with is the sexual department. We have been talking more about it, but it has only actually happened once. Maybe I am having some hysterical bonding going on, but I really feel like our sex life must be much better. In any case she has often not been feeling well or will say maybe we can try tomorrow which is something that has happened since we have had kids. 

Last night I we talked about some of our sexual fantasies. She seemed to enjoy this. Later I tried to initiate sex but asked if she was feeling well because she said she had felt ill earlier in the day. She replied "I'm just pissed off" When I asked her why she said "I don't know" As I pressed her more she seemed to get more irritated. At that point I flew off the handle. I said some things that were not nice. She said she was not mad at me just at some things that happened during the day-things not of my doing. That made me more angry - why would she choose that particular time to get pissed off then?

In any case after three weeks of things getting consistently better I feel like I'm back at square one. Maybe I am putting too much emphasis on sex, but she told me that was one thing she was dissatisfied with in our marriage too.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OMG :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

WHAT are you doing, man???

I feel so frustrated right now. :slap:


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Hope1964

I knew that I would get responses like this. Which is why I haven't posted for so long. I just came to feel that divorce was the 'nuclear option' when it comes to kids. Especially when my daughter says "I'm so glad you aren't fighting anymore."

Also, my wife seemed to be showing true remorse and everything I checked -email - phone checked out. She was being very transarent. Maybe I have been blinded by the hope that our family will not be broken up. Everything seemed right to me until the incident that happened last night. Things really seemed to be getting better. 

Maybe my story will just become another cautionary tale. I hope not but I understand your frustration.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

OMB:

This is the thin edge of the wedge.

You are being tested.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

Not exactly sure what you mean by being tested? My wife is testing me to see how much I will put up with?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

OMB
Your wife is deep in the affair as we speak. I think you can sense this even if you deny it. 

When did she have a change of heart? I'll tell you exactly when. It was when you said you were going to file. Presto! She told her OM and he said he can't leave his wife right now. It's too costly. But he told her: "We can still be soulmates and enjoy our stolen moments." He told her she'd have to suck it up and play nice with you - but to try to remain faithful to him.

In her MIND, she is not a cheater. She will only have intimacy and sex with her one true love. And that's not you friend. It's a FACT. 

Did she go to the conference? Did he?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Things are not working out, in general, and in the bedroom---cuz her lover is still with her

Maybe not physically but you better believe---if there was ANYTHING, to her EA, he has not left, her mind, her subconscious, and what have you

Nothing is gonna change if she has ANY KIND OF CONTACT WITH HIM-----that means work

Her Work---its a situation you need to look at in re: what you are gonna do

If you really wanna R with her---then she has to leave that job YESTERDAY---she is still in contact, even if it is just visual contact---it still brings him back into her consciousness---so anything you do, basically is leveled out by him also being there in her mind.------

If you are gonna D---then let her keep the job---as she will need to have a job to support herself

No matter what you gotta remember one thing---this whole situation, is your ballgame played by your rules----she cheated, she gets no input----also if push comes to shove---you are never to leave the marital home---a judge would nail your for ABANDONMENT


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean by being tested? My wife is testing me to see how much I will put up with?


It is called "limit testing" in children's psychology. 

She is pushing each limit imposed to cause weakness and to explore how much you are willing to allow past your stated limits. Each time she gets to the edge, she weakens your resolve to enforce the limits. Before you know it, there is a free-for all for the banned behaviors.

The test behavior is never severe enough to cause repercussions, but it is repeated enough to eventually make it commonplace. Once that is accomplished, the limit is pushed another little bit, and the process repeated.


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## OneManBand (Jan 2, 2013)

To Everyone that has given me advice. I bow down to your superior intelligence and experience. I feel so stupid.

I called OMW. OM was at the same conference. When I confronted my wife she said they didn't even talk but was afraid i'd be upset if she told me he was there. Whatever!

Also found out another lie she has been telling for the past 3 months. Time for 180 and divorce!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OneManBand said:


> To Everyone that has given me advice. I bow down to your superior intelligence and experience. I feel so stupid.
> 
> I called OMW. OM was at the same conference. When I confronted my wife she said they didn't even talk but was afraid i'd be upset if she told me he was there. Whatever!
> 
> Also found out another lie she has been telling for the past 3 months. Time for 180 and divorce!!


I am quoting this because it is SO important.

Good for you. Now get mad and do NOT let her keep convincing you of her lies!!!! You are not stupid - you're human. And you did something many other BS's are too scared to do - you dug after the truth.

Now keep us updated. I am curious what the other lie was.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> To Everyone that has given me advice. I bow down to your superior intelligence and *experience*. I feel so stupid.
> 
> I called OMW. OM was at the same conference. When I confronted my wife she said they didn't even talk but was afraid i'd be upset if she told me he was there. Whatever!
> 
> Also found out another lie she has been telling for the past 3 months. Time for 180 and divorce!!


It's not the superior intelligence. 

It's not that you are stupid.

It is the superior collective experience.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OMB

None of us likeit or are happy when we are right.

Keep digging.Keep distancing yourself from her lies.

And let us know all that has transpired even if it hearts.

It is good you spoke to his wife.

What else does she know?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OneManBand said:


> To Everyone that has given me advice. I bow down to your superior intelligence and experience. I feel so stupid.
> 
> I called OMW. OM was at the same conference. When I confronted my wife she said they didn't even talk but was afraid i'd be upset if she told me he was there. Whatever!
> 
> *Also found out another lie she has been telling for the past 3 months.* Time for 180 and divorce!!


What did she lie about? Sorry you are here and I haven't really tracked your thread that closely until tonight. But yep...you were played. Glad to see you wising up. Has the OMW jumped on this loser with both feet? Have you exposed again to the family and friends that your wife lied about her contact with the OM and that she has been cheating this entire time? She needs to feel shame, ridicule and scorn from those closest to her.


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