# Alpha male and negatives wives - can it be changed?



## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Here is a question I am grappling with for a while. I used to be a beta male, always trying to please my wife, being treated like a doormat, etc. After reading the "no more mr. nice guy" book I realized my mistakes and really worked on changing myself. 

I saw huge improvement in the way my wife treats me, which is great.

The issue here that in general she is a very negative person. The most common terms she uses are "I am angry because" "this is so annoying", "I am pissed off". The most UNCOMMON terms she uses is "I really like", "it was great", "I am so happy."

So, does an alpha male supposed somehow to change such an attitude? Is it even possible to unless the person herself wants to?

We had a major fight this past weekend. I was as open as it gets - when she blamed me, I told her that her behavior towards me can sometime be borderline verbally abuse, and that unless she is ready to work on herself, I am not going to change one bit. That's use to be the major trap - she tells me how I am to blame, I say yes ,I have a part of it but please join me and we will do it together, and she used to say that I have to make her want to change. Yeah. 

So since then, she is being super nice. Really trying. But she just doesn't understand what attracts me. She thinks that all I need is sex - instead of understanding that I need is a loving wife, and a positive partner. I am a very positive person. I don't judge, happy with what I have, tries to be friendly with everyone I meet.

With her, almost everything is negative, and everyone is looking to do something bad for her.

I know this is a result of how she was brought up... but still, how would a good, real alpha male behave in such a case?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You can't "change" anyone's attitude. All you can do is change how you react to her. You can tell her how you feel, of course, but ultimately, she is responsible for her own happiness (or lack thereof) and for her own behavior whether you are alpha or beta or whatever other labels people give eachother now.

Them's the breaks.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

As a leader, you wouldn't fight with her. You would discuss in a civil tone. If she chooses to be uncivil, you disengage.

As a leader, you would not react to the "negative" statements, instead you would steer them to a positive tone. "I am so angry" would be met with "Well what would make you happy?" If the tone doesn't change, you disengage.

An "Alpha" has two roles in a pack. One is leading, the other is protecting. When she acts out in the way you describe, it is because she is feeling vulnerable. It is up to you to create a safe haven where she is able to express herself openly without fear of retribution. She should feel that she can say anything to you and it will be heard, even if it doesn't get agreed with.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

That’s her “self talk”, the voice that goes on inside her head. We all have those conversations with ourselves, she’s obviously a very negative, pessimistic person.

You can’t really do anything about it at all. The only time she will change is if she has a great need to. Like a serious loss in her life, a great deal of pain or something. Even then after the greatest losses possible some people still don’t change.

And stop “fighting”.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mistys dad said:


> As a leader, you wouldn't fight with her. You would discuss in a civil tone. If she chooses to be uncivil, you disengage.
> 
> As a leader, you would not react to the "negative" statements, instead you would steer them to a positive tone. "I am so angry" would be met with "Well what would make you happy?" If the tone doesn't change, you disengage.
> 
> An "Alpha" has two roles in a pack. One is leading, the other is protecting. When she acts out in the way you describe, it is because she is feeling vulnerable. It is up to you to create a safe haven where she is able to express herself openly without fear of retribution. She should feel that she can say anything to you and it will be heard, even if it doesn't get agreed with.


Or maybe her needs for save haven are way too much for what I can provide? Maybe her insecurities are way too complicated for me to provide her security?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

joshbjoshb said:


> unless she is ready to work on herself, I am not going to change one bit.


You saying "you're not going to change one bit unless she is ready to as well, comes across as you wanting her to change first. Its almost like a child who crosses their arms, and says "NO I don't want to" because they didn't get their way. Her being nice to you right now is fine, however I think it may be short lived. You need change because you know you need to not because you are waiting on her, because that may or may not ever happen.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AFEH said:


> You can’t really do anything about it at all.


Bingo!

You cannot "change" anyone just as you cannot "make them" stop doing something of start doing somehting. It has to come from within. 

Fact of life. 

My ex was a negative nelly. Still is. I am so glad I'm not around that 24/7 anymore. It seriously brought me down.


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## Lost182 (Jul 24, 2012)

I am in a similar situation. Except she attitude was really really bad. She would always find a way to make her self right even if she was wrong, but her immature attitude had changed, but I can't help but notice these annoying traces of her former self still exists. I guess the whole attitude that people have has been developed thru there life and you can never really change a person completely.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

trey69 said:


> You saying "you're not going to change one bit unless she is ready to as well, comes across as you wanting her to change first. Its almost like a child who crosses their arms, and says "NO I don't want to" because they didn't get their way. Her being nice to you right now is fine, however I think it may be short lived. You need change because you know you need to not because you are waiting on her, because that may or may not ever happen.


Perhaps you didn't read the entire post of mine? I said this because we had those arguments plenty of times, and each time she told me I should change first. So no, I am not unless you are. Very simple.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Lost182 said:


> but her immature attitude had changed,.


How?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> ...and that unless she is ready to work on herself, I am not going to change one bit


I think you missed some of the keys in the book. First, this is about you. You work on you, for you. Doesn't matter if she works on herself/changes or not. 

The other thing is, you can become super-Alpha man, and it may not improve your marriage or your wife's attitude one bit. In fact, as described in the book, your work on you may kill your marriage sooner. That seems to be the path that my Nice Guy work has put me on.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

AFEH said:


> That’s her “self talk”, the voice that goes on inside her head. We all have those conversations with ourselves, she’s obviously a very negative, pessimistic person.
> 
> You can’t really do anything about it at all. The only time she will change is if she has a great need to. Like a serious loss in her life, a great deal of pain or something. Even then after the greatest losses possible some people still don’t change.
> 
> And stop “fighting”.


I agree. I guess my question was what to do, and the answer seems to be "disengage". I have been doing it lately.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

joshbjoshb said:


> Perhaps you didn't read the entire post of mine? I said this because we had those arguments plenty of times, and each time she told me I should change first. So no, I am not unless you are. Very simple.


Then let her tell you that if she wants, you be the bigger person and walk away. You saying it back because she did doesn't make it right or better.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

IMO, some people don't change or wont change at least, unless they feel they have something worth changing for, period.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> IMO, some people don't change or wont change at least, unless they feel they have something worth changing for, period.


Preach! :iagree:

And some, eventhough they have something worth changing for/stopping behavior for, STILL don't change!

I have a relative like this. She has destroyed so many relationships with family members and is fully aware of how her attitude sucks yet she is unbendable. It's sad really because it's made people resent her and want nothing to do with her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

joshbjoshb said:


> I agree. I guess my question was what to do, and the answer seems to be "disengage". I have been doing it lately.


Your wife is exceedingly attached to her ego, much like a child would be. You are to a great extent as well. That’s why you “fight”. In spite of what you say, your comment about not changing unless she does is “childish”.

The vast majority of people live right there inside their own heads and as such do not expand their minds. Your wife is one such person. I doubt that she’ll change much all the way on up to her 80s and 90s, except perhaps to become more bitter at the world.



You on the other hand are different. You are trying to get out of your own head (your ego) by expanding your mind. But keep “fighting” with your wife and she’ll keep pulling you back into your head, your ego.



Of course if you want to keep expanding and growing your mind in spite of your wife’s negativity, read Awareness by Anthony de Mello and become your own man.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

AFEH said:


> Your wife is exceedingly attached to her ego, much like a child would be. You are to a great extent as well. That’s why you “fight”. In spite of what you say, your comment about not changing unless she does is “childish”.


Let me explain my comment, as I see it was misunderstood.

Of course I am working on myself. I try to stay calm all the time, not yell (even in that fight, I would call it argument not fight - I didn't yell etc.), be nice yet not let anyone step on me.

But her rant was that the reason we don't have a good marriage is because it's my fault. My answer was that I believe I have something to do with it, but she also does. So she says "then go to a therapist to see how to deal with me" - to which I replied - no way. I am not going to a therapist to see how to deal with you. We are either going together, or we can go separate but not going myself.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

My situation is nearly identical to yours, OP. In my case, my wife suffered from severe clinical depression for a number of years and I didn't really expect happy behavior from her. That's chemical in nature. But before that she was an overly critical person - always picking things apart and seeing problems in everything - and I wonder if that kind thinking led to her depression. 

Also, my wife has several siblings who don't share her pessimistic outlook on life so upbringing isn't necessarily the issue though it can be. 

In short, you married an adult with a full set of quirks, phobias, and other traits. You have no chance of changing them. She might want to change if you say something like, "I find your constant negativity really hard to be around."


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

joshbjoshb said:


> Or maybe her needs for save haven are way too much for what I can provide? Maybe her insecurities are way too complicated for me to provide her security?


If you have reached that decision, than it is time to be a good ender and move on.

Do so without drama. Keep up your family obligations. Keep up the financial obligations. But, pack up and move on and end it.


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## Lost182 (Jul 24, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> How?


Well she used to be very insecure because she had been. Heated on before and had a rough family life, and it caused her to be very defensive and always had a nevetive attitude towards people. She told me I couldn't talk to my ex, or my cousins even because she did t like it. If I went outgo the movies she would ask me a 101 questions and always ended in a fight. Now she realizes that and is more easy going and tries. It to be so insecure.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> You can't "change" anyone's attitude. All you can do is change how you react to her. You can tell her how you feel, of course, but ultimately, she is responsible for her own happiness (or lack thereof) and for her own behavior whether you are alpha or beta or whatever other labels people give eachother now.
> 
> Them's the breaks.


Somewhat agree, but somewhat disagree too.

Look, it's not about her, it's about you. Be positive, outgoing. Enjoy life. You know how hard it is to be negative around a really positive person?

Also, is she treating herself right? Exercise, eating right, etc? Might help for her to have a positive role model.

If she's still going to be negative, work on yourself so that she can't get you down. It's your life, not hers. And if she's really negative, to hell with it. Get out and enjoy yourself.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

I changed a bunch of my behaviors because my W pointed out that they were not ideal - she did so in a nice adult way over time (she's pretty alpha herself). I reflected and determined she was right and changed. I am happier with myself for those changes. Sometimes I did not think she was right and did not change.

Point being, if you are "alpha" you can suggest reasonable changes in a way that is understood.

Saying you will not change unless she does is petulant, regardless of your history. Do the right thing. E.g., if she tells you that you aren't picking up your socks, and she does not put away her makeup, your response should be - "I will put away my socks. Please be mindful to store your makeup."


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Humans are not so simple to be broken down into categories like "alpha" and "beta" male

Truth is you were never a beta or alpha male. Humans are far to complex to be labeled as such!

for the millionth time there exist no alpha or beta male. That would be taking a purely biological approach towards psychodynamics. Human's in my opinion are motivated and more so designed for optimal growth and the self-actualization (development). 


Its all in your head you are wishing to categorize yourself into set categories that do not frankly even exist!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Goldmember357 said:


> Humans are not so simple to be broken down into categories like "alpha" and "beta" male
> 
> Truth is you were never a beta or alpha male. Humans are far to complex to be labeled as such!
> 
> ...


?

is this a alpha or beta statement?


biology is good. some traits are more alpha than beta.

seem simple enough to me.


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