# Separation Talk Tonight



## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

My partner just informed me that she wants to talk about a trial separation tonight. I'm in overload, crisis mode for myself, the relationship, and our family. Any tips on having the initial conversation? Mainly, rules of engagement, structuring family time, and staying calm?

I'm crushed and feeling more than a little hopeless at the moment. It is a surprise move...and, clearly I'm surprised.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well a surprise trial separation _could_ mean she is having an affair and wants to see if she can get away from you to spend time with the OM

now that isn't a certainty as I have no other evidence provided by you BUT you should at least try to rule it out. I'd start by getting a VAR, check phone records for calls and texts, install a keylogger and attempt to get into her emails and facebook etc

tell us about your relationship in more detail


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. 

I have no reason to suspect an affair and hate the thought of violating privacy like that, but I'll keep that in mind.

We've been together for 8 years. It has been a great adventure! We've had some rocky patches along the way, but the commitment to being our best individuals and do our best as a couple has always remained strong and provided the foundation to build.

We were talking about marriage recently, so I'm even more thrown for a loop. 

She's mentioned she's depressed on several ocassions and I'm always supportive of seeking help/treatement/etc. but no movement. In the past year or so the mood swings have gotten pretty bad, more frequent, and more nasty. 

I'm not saying the lack of definitive diagnosis and/or treatment for depression is driving the boat for her, but I'm guessing it is a contributing factor. 

If someone's been here before with a similar journey, any thoughts on how to approach the discussion tonight are greatly appreciated.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I have no reason to suspect an affair and hate the thought of violating privacy like that, but I'll keep that in mind.


I had no clue myself and found the cheating by accident, none of us expects it- just one more plea and I'll let it go- there is a difference between privacy and secrecy. You aren't snooping for her private thoughts, you are looking for secrets that may directly impact you. She's now given you a damn good reason to look, imo.



Really said:


> We've been together for 8 years. It has been a great adventure! We've had some rocky patches along the way, but the commitment to being our best individuals and do our best as a couple has always remained strong and provided the foundation to build.
> 
> We were talking about marriage recently, so I'm even more thrown for a loop.


okay, I'll ask- what is taking you so damn long to propose if it's so wonderful? Maybe she's sick of waiting?



Really said:


> She's mentioned she's depressed on several ocassions and I'm always supportive of seeking help/treatement/etc. but no movement. In the past year or so the mood swings have gotten pretty bad, more frequent, and more nasty.
> 
> I'm not saying the lack of definitive diagnosis and/or treatment for depression is driving the boat for her, but I'm guessing it is a contributing factor.


mood swings can come from stress or it can come from genetic depression/bipolarism or from some other physical problem. I assume you know her family, do they have any history of mental illness? Is there something in her life that is causing the mood swings, what is her age, job, money, etc like?



Really said:


> If someone's been here before with a similar journey, any thoughts on how to approach the discussion tonight are greatly appreciated.



IMO, you can't work on being a couple while being separated and you should make that very clear. In fact I think you have to make a stand. I think you should let her know that if she wants to separate then you want to split. To me this even may be her way of splitting up anyways, be prepared for that. If you must separate then make rules very clear- (must be date nights, no dating other people, etc)


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for the second plea. I consider myself warned and hear you.

The reason we haven't gotten married is because it isn't legal for us to do so in our home state, or many states for that matter. 

You are right...there are many issues that contribute to mood swings, and certainly new job, new house, new baby all in the past two years is stressful. So yes to those items and yes to family history. She has always been a treat-me-with-kid-gloves-emotionally but I'll-hold-no-punches-for-you type.

I appreciate your opinion that you can't work on a relationship while separated. And, you may well be right about the eventual outcome and rationale for her desire (sounds like you have some experience with this), I love this woman, and at this point I'm just trying to figure out how to make the next 24 hours a positive, building opportunity for each of us and our family. 

Regardless of what the outcome is 2 months or 2 years from now, I don't want to look back at this moment and feel like I failed to show up for the big game.

And, to be fair, I'm sure I've contributed to the current situation. This isn't about one being or doing right or wrong. I'm just trying to get myself together so I can be engaged, connected, and centered during the conversation tonight for the benefit of my family.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> The reason we haven't gotten married is because it isn't legal for us to do so in our home state, or many states for that matter.


ah, so it's a homosexual relationship then? No problem by me, I just wasn't understanding the dynamic of not getting married.



Really said:


> You are right...there are many issues that contribute to mood swings, and certainly new job, new house, new baby all in the past two years is stressful. So yes to those items and yes to family history. She has always been a treat-me-with-kid-gloves-emotionally but I'll-hold-no-punches-for-you type.


was the new baby born from your partner? I ask because of post-partum depression



Really said:


> I appreciate your opinion that you can't work on a relationship while separated. And, you may well be right about the eventual outcome and rationale for her desire (sounds like you have some experience with this), I love this woman, and at this point I'm just trying to figure out how to make the next 24 hours a positive, building opportunity for each of us and our family.


My only experience with divorce/separation was me telling my wife that we are getting divorced after I discovered her affair- we worked it out instead and had we been separated there wouldn't have been a chance in hell, imo. I also speak of reading and participating in the forums about separation, I just don't see it working often at all. In order to bond and heal from marital or relationship problems you need to spend lots of alone time together.[/quote]



Really said:


> Regardless of what the outcome is 2 months or 2 years from now, I don't want to look back at this moment and feel like I failed to show up for the big game.
> 
> And, to be fair, I'm sure I've contributed to the current situation. This isn't about one being or doing right or wrong. I'm just trying to get myself together so I can be engaged, connected, and centered during the conversation tonight for the benefit of my family.



My advice is to be firm in your wishes, don't ever beg, state your case clearly and calmly and don't get emotional. Listen without being defensive and don't use accusations. However, do convey your needs and wants. Stress how important it is for a relationship to need closeness and by separating that closeness cannot be done.


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

I had the baby, and I did have post-partum depression. I wouldn't recommend it! ;-)

I think my issue is that I feel terribly betrayed by the whole thing. I've suggested couple's counseling numerous times as it became apparent this wasn't our usual "rut" but to no avail (and I'm working at a disadvantage there because she's a former therapist). So a potential solution that was, and still is, available is "off limits" but something I'm totally not in favor of is the only option?

I don't know...my emotions have the better of me at the moment so I'm probably not making sense...

As the eternal optomist, I'm hopeful things will get better. They have to...right?

For the record, I am very skeptical of separation for the same reason you mentioned. I'm also willing to try if it is the difference between making and breaking the relationship...and it is the only choice I have.

The problem is I don't have a clear sense of that at the moment. I also don't want to feel as though I've been pushed into the separation...which I am...and hang on to that sense of betrayl and lack of control. That certainly can't be a good way to start things off!

Do you, or does anyone, have any sense of if asking that the potential self-described depression be addressed and/or seeking couple's counseling during the separation is a good idea? Sorry, that may be inappropriate to ask that way... UM, is saying I'm willing to try this if we/you do therapy considered an appropriate strategy to address the potential underlying issues?

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble. Thanks.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well as a former depression sufferer and her being a former therapist I dont see why you couldn't point it out, just don't assess blame with it.


at this point, it's all speculation as to her reasons until you actually hear from her

thus I stress the approach I mentioned before- getting emotional will likely screw things up and lead to a bad confrontation


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks. 

I think that I'm discovering I'm not really ready to have this conversation because being unemotional is not really working out for me right now.

I don't think I can delay the conversation though, so I'll just put on my big-girl pants and see what happens. It can't be worse than this.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Really said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> *I have no reason to suspect an affair and hate the thought of violating privacy like that, but I'll keep that in mind.
> *
> ...


Transparency. Privacy is for single people or soon to be single people.

My wife caught my EA early on because we had transaprency. It saved our marriage.

OMG you arer not married yet!?


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Separations are often and excuse for an open marriage.


I know. I have previous experience...there's no sugar coating it - it is awful. Kudos to those that make it through.


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

No not married, can't be in our sate.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I will stress this again-



Almostrecovered said:


> If you must separate then make rules very clear- (must be date nights, no dating other people, etc)


Keep your boundaries clear, make it known that if she sees another woman that it's over.


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks Almostrecovered. I appreciate your conversation.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> No not married, can't be in our sate.



for all intents and purpose you really are, just not legally

thus treat this as the same as all of us- fight for your marriage


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

I am fighting for it, and I will continue to. Thanks.


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Had the talk. Feeling really low right now. I'm not sure what to make of it...at all. "Let it grow organically." "I'm upset that I'm even having to contemplate this as an option to save our relationship." "You don't respect me." "Your heart is in a really dark place right now." All in response to some questions about paramaters and goals?! 

So basically, I got bulldozed. Now, she's moving out, but not really because she wants to continue to take our son to school every morning (the usual routine), spend the evening with him and put him to bed after I pick him up, and then go sleep somewhere else? 

My question about how does simply sleeping somewhere else solve anything didn't go well either.

I'm either the worst communicator in the history of relationships or...well, I don't know what.

How has this gone for others?


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

And, to top it off, me asking questions is "just closing doors that could lead to reconcilliation because I have to be in control and manipulate everything."

Again, so confused and hurt.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> And, to top it off, me asking questions is "just closing doors that could lead to reconcilliation because *I have to be in control and manipulate everything.*"
> 
> Again, so confused and hurt.


oh the irony!

your girlfriend certainly knows how to spin things, doesn't she?


the fact that she deflected all of your questions on boundaries and parameters says it all, she either already has someone else or has plans on seeing other people.


I'm so sorry Really

to me it sounds like she wants to be what we call a cake eater

the problem before you is whether or not you will allow it. You can't control her, you can only control yourself.


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

Well it certainly didn't go as planned, that's for sure. 

I'm going to take some time to think about what the implications are. Right now I'm just so broken-hearted and confused that I need some time to feel...then think. 

Based on her actions this morning...crying about it, sending loving messages, etc...makes it even worse. I don't have any reason to doubt her feelings but the conversation topic and dialogue from last ngith would sure suggest her thoughts were vastly different last night.

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! 

Who knows? Maybe this is the best thing...for her. I've always thought that in a relationship you have to be willing to take risks, especially when the emotional health of the other person and future of the relationship is on the line. Maybe this is the risk I have to take at this moment and support her journey? 

Now am I rationalizing it away? OMG, this is so very confusing.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> Who knows? Maybe this is the best thing...for her. I've always thought that in a relationship you have to be willing to take risks, especially when the emotional health of the other person and future of the relationship is on the line. Maybe this is the risk I have to take at this moment and support her journey?


this is actually a common reaction, if she's engaging in an affair emotional or physical then allowing her to have you as a back up plan never works. Which isn't to say that "letting her go" isn't a bad option. But that means something entirely different that what you're saying.


now, will you please reconsider my plea to start spying? Tell me about her habits, what phone does she have and what social sites and emails and computer does she use?


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm almost convinced. 

Relevant backstory about me...in my last long-term relationship sitting at the dinner table one night, my partner casually announced that they would like to start sleeping with other people. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked if they were asking for permission or forgiveness. Never got an answer to that, by the way, but my suspicion to the answer was both. 

After some serious therapy on my part, I decided an open relationship wasn't a lifestyle I was OK with and ended the 10+ year relationship. 

In this relationship no actual cheating has occured, but there have been some really questionable choices made that, truth be told, came as close to cheating as you can get. That I would find myself here, meaning concerned about another woman, has always been a concern of mine, but I've resisted the urge to give in to that thought given my last relationship (ie being overly suspicious of things, overly sensitive, etc.).

Maybe I'm overcompensating from my last experience? I don't know. What I do know is that I need to think about this potential more seriously.

In other words, I'm taking you more seriously and will want to learn more.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> In other words, I'm taking you more seriously and will want to learn more.


my suggestion is to head on over to the coping with infidelity section and read a bit, you see how both betrayed spouses and wayward spouses follow a script of sorts


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## Really (Oct 18, 2011)

OK - tell me more. I'm still uncomfortable, but as I play the tapes back I think I have to check.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Really said:


> OK - tell me more. I'm still uncomfortable, but as I play the tapes back I think I have to check.


what is that you want to know?

step one is to verify-

get a keylogger on her computer (which will also get you passwords for email and facebook)
check phone records for calls and texts
what kind of phone does she have, some texts can be retrieved even if deleted
put a VAR in her car as most waywards make their secret calls in the car as they feel safe there


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