# Time for my own thread, I'm getting very confused



## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

So I've posted in a few other threads and now feel time to share my story.

My wife left me 2 months ago telling me she was no longer happy after 7 years of marriage. My wife had cheated on me with a coworker awhile back and I found out. By the time I found out she had already ended it and after living apart for a few weeks decided to work on our marriage. We hit the ground running and invested 100% into our marriage. Things were going extremely well, and I was handling her infidelity much better than I would have ever imagine, but still thought of it often, and it spoiled large portions of my day at times.

Anyway, now we are here, separated. At first I begged and pleaded for her to stay. I did all the wrong things. I started reading this site and tried to implement the 180. I did well, but we still ended up having sex a few times and I would get weak and tell her I missed her. Everytime she comes over to pick up the kids or whatever, she balls her eyes out, tells me she hates her life, hates being without me, feels like she made a mistake by leaving. If this would have been 3 weeks ago, I'd probably would have tried to work on things. However, it's like in the last 3 weeks I've really taken a lot of personal strides. I feel like I've detached from her emotionally. In fact, I really don't even want to be around her. I don't give a rip about what she does in her free time, which is odd, because it practically consumed me in the first month. Although I was devastated when she left, a part of me now thinks that maybe I have been detaching since her affair.

I've really been having a lot of fun lately as I've posted in a few other threads. I'm getting a huge amount of attention from girls, which is helping with my self-confidence issues. I'm kind of having a fling with a girl right now from out of town. I haven't had sex with her because I'm still feeling pretty guilty about her. She's cool though and although I'm not sure I'm ready, I don't want to just throw her away, so for now I'm just chatting with her and when we get together we make-out. Nothing serious at all. I've told her everything and told her a relationship is out of the question and she was cool with it. 

So basically, I think my wife wants to try and make things work but I don't. I think it's entirely possible that I'm just going through a phase were I'm getting attention from girls and it's making me forget about her. But all I can think about is just moving on with my life. Selling our marital home and getting a little place of my own and just living my life. I really don't know what to do cause I'm not sure I want to tell my wife it's over 100%. I guess the cards are almost reversed in a sense where she is my plan B. It's just that I don't know whether she is actually my plan B, or if I'm just a little numb towards her for everything she put me through.

I appreciate any advice, and also wanted to add, I've decided to go to counselling for this as well.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If that's the case, your no better than your wife. Look friend, if you want your freedom, then file for divorce and go off with your new GF. If you want to have a R with your wife, then work on the marriage but you can't have it both ways. Your new GF wouldn't like being played along and that's what your doing. 

Time to make a stand and decide what you want. It's called doing the right thing. Your wife cheated and it pissed you off so end it and if your GF is willing to fool around with a married man, what does that say about her? Come on man, either end it or stay married and work it out.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

6301 said:


> If that's the case, your no better than your wife. Look friend, if you want your freedom, then file for divorce and go off with your new GF. If you want to have a R with your wife, then work on the marriage but you can't have it both ways. Your new GF wouldn't like being played along and that's what your doing.
> 
> Time to make a stand and decide what you want. It's called doing the right thing. Your wife cheated and it pissed you off so end it and if your GF is willing to fool around with a married man, what does that say about her? Come on man, either end it or stay married and work it out.


Your right.

This chick isn't my gf though. Not even close. I don't want a relationship with her. I really like talking to her, makes me feel alive again. I'm not sure I would classifying myself as cheating on my wife though. Yes we're married, but separated. Some people never get a divorce and just remain separated. I would have to wait a year for a divorce. I'm a man, just a simple animal, I enjoy the companionship of a women, and I'm not sure I could wait a year for it.

Right now, I'm 99% sure I just want to move on. I guess the right thing for me to do would be to tell my wife it's 100% over for me. I honestly don't want to hurt her. I still love her.

Thanks for the advice


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## grainofsalt (Oct 6, 2013)

If you still love your wife, I highly doubt you are ready to move on to another relationship, at least not successfully IMHO.

Your posts are full of strange dynamics... She walked, but now she's crying to come back? You love her, but are through with her? These are somewhat strange dynamics...

I would suggest both you and your wife come to a conclusion as to where you both stand, and what you both want going forward. Either try to reconcile, or one or both of you should file for divorce.

Take care of this business first, instead of leaving the relationship hang in limbo. Once you sort this out, I would say only then would it be time to consider another relationship. It's not only fair to you and your wife, but it's also fair to your new dating partner...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Its not for me but some people have an open marriage, I think that a separation is a similar situation. As long as you are not leading the other person on. "We are separated, moving to divorce, you can see who you want you owe me nothing." Is how I would put it.

She will probably ask, "what about you?" That door swings both ways! And say no more.

If you think there is any reasonable chance on your part that you want to reconcile, you should completely abstain from forming relationships with other woman. It will only make things much worse.

Laying money on both tables is not an honorable thing to do. Pick a dealer and stay in the game.

But take as much time as you need.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

> Right now, I'm 99% sure I just want to move on. I guess the right thing for me to do would be to tell my wife it's 100% over for me. I honestly don't want to hurt her. I still love her.


You need to tell your wife, out of the love you say you feel for her.

The last time I spoke to my husband, he told me how happy he was we were separated (he initiated the call), how I had changed him into someone he didn't like or recognized, how he regretted marrying me.

He is now "chatting" up girls like you said you are doing, he is having the time of his life. 
He is saying I was just average or below average, that he will now get a 10 and never settle for less again.

He is saying all these things not to me.... I wish he could be brave enough to say all these things to me because I do not know if they are factual statements he is making or hearsay.

Always be honest with your wife, even if it hurts her, honesty is the best and she will eventually thank you for it.
Apparently, by my husband's admission, when he last called me I lived a lie for 15 years and it is very devastating, even if his words were just to hurt me.

Please tell your wife and good luck in all your endeavors!!1
I am glad that you are happy though.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I want to stress the fact that I DO NOT want a girlfriend or another relationship. I know I'm not ready. I really enjoy talking to her, and it's flirty in a sense. She knows I don't want a relationship and she has told me the same.

My wife has not said specifically that she wants to work on our marriage again. However, she does say she feels like she made a mistake (which I told her initially she was), tells me she hates her life and misses me tremendously. When she first left I suspected the OM was still in the picture. Now I'm starting to realize that probably wasn't the case, unless it was, and he flat out denied her. 

So some people in this thread have already shared their view that even kissing another person while separated is wrong, so I'll pose the following question to all, which I hope as many posters as possible will answer:

If someone leaves their spouse, stating they are unhappy and LYBNILWY, is it reasonable that they should expect fidelity from their spouse? If so, for how long? Until the divorce is final?

I should add, as a final comment, that 3 weeks into our separation we were having a discussion over text. In that conversation I asked her if her expectation of me was to be faithful to her. I asked her this because I wanted her to tell me that YES, she absolutely expected it. I guess it was my way of knowing if I still have a chance. Instead, she said "It was my life, and I should do whatever makes me happy".


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

ne9907 said:


> You need to tell your wife, out of the love you say you feel for her.
> 
> The last time I spoke to my husband, he told me how happy he was we were separated (he initiated the call), how I had changed him into someone he didn't like or recognized, how he regretted marrying me.
> 
> ...


I'm not happy. I'm going through a massive change in my life. I will say that I'm having fun. I don't know why but through the course of my marriage I lost all of my self-confidence. I did not love myself. Now I'm getting a bit of attention from girls and I'm starting to realize, I'm not so bad. I have qualities that girls are attracted too. That's all this is about.

Your husband sounds like a complete moron. My wife was never a mistake.

I'll tell you exactly how I'm feeling, and maybe it will make sense to everyone. When my wife cheated, it was at the lowest point in my life. I was so scared to lose her, and she seemed very remorseful so I gave it a shot. My fear of losing her forced me to come to terms with what she had done. I was forced to accept my life as it was, and I felt I was ok with that as long as my wife never did it again, and as long as I could feel she truly loved me. There were days where it absolutely consumed me. I would need to take a drive just to clear my head. I tried not to let it effect our relationship, but she knew when I was thinking about it. It was tough to hide.

Now that she has finally left, and I've lost my life as I knew it, I feel like I don't have to force myself to be OK with it anymore. It's ok to be mad now. It's ok to deal with it in my own way. Now that I've had a chance to do that, it's hard for me to imagine ever taking her back, despite loving her very much.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife has obviously voted with her feet.

She cheated.

She left when caught cheating.

She never transparently ended the affair for you to see and know.

Yeah, she's thrown around tears, snot, and demands for you to feel sorry for poor poor her - the wife and mother who decided having a bf and having sex with him was a perfectly ok thing to do.

From what you've said, the marriage is dead.  She had an exit affair and is quite possibly dating him still, or is on to a new guy.

If she wanted the marriage she wouldn't have cheated and destroyed the family. If she wanted the marriage she wouldn't have moved out so she could have her privacy and freedom to continue to cheat on you.


My advice:

1. Expose the affair to the guys wife if you haven't already done so.

2. Hire a great aggressive attorney and file for D ASAP

As soon as you've filed, do what you want in the dating world, why should you stop living just because the person you had been with has chosen to betray and abandon you? To me that's like going to a party with someone , who then cheats on you at the party, and you stick around waiting to drive them home.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Bottom line -

Divorcing and moving on from a spouse that betrays and cheats on you is an entirely reasonable and normal choice to make.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old are you and your WW? The wound is fresh. Make no rash decisions. 

Has your WW cleared up everything about the affair?

Read Rookie's thread. Also, Tears, which gives the remorseful WW's point of view. 

I think most guys would want to sleep with a couple of women to reassure themselves that they have not fallen to very bottom of the sex ranking pile.

Carlton, another good thread, has reached a bizarre point. He and his WW are divorcing but still live together. As he headed out the door for an overnight date, he caught his wife fishing through his bag.

"Don't forget the condoms," she said. 

She has yet to express remorse, but clearly these things end like a 10-year-old trying clean and scale a fish for the first time.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Your wife has obviously voted with her feet.
> 
> She cheated.
> 
> ...


This post is exactly what I was expecting people to say.

The OM is not married so there was nothing to expose. I think I'm going to wait to finish IC before I apply for the divorce. I want to make sure my head is 100% glued on before I do so.




LongWalk said:


> How old are you and your WW? The wound is fresh. Make no rash decisions.
> 
> Has your WW cleared up everything about the affair?
> 
> ...


I'm going to search for those threads, thank you. For now, the separation has been without drama, expect for a few times in the early stages where I questioned her intentions, and questioned whether she was with the OM. I don't know how I'll feel tomorrow, but if someone told me right now that they saw WW and OM together, I'm not sure how I'd feel. Possibly validated, and perhaps a lot less guilty than I feel about talking with this other chick. It's tough to say at this point exactly how I'd feel.

She came over today to drop off the kids, and like I said, she is kind of hinting towards giving this another shot. She came in and I was laying on the couch and she came a laid down with me without invitation. She could tell I wasn't into it so she got up within about 10 secs of laying down. I felt nothing in these 10 secs but uncomfortable. I didn't want her there. This is a huge contrast to how I would have felt 5-6 weeks ago. I would have held her and not let her leave. It's just all very bizarre.

edit: we are 29


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> If someone leaves their spouse, stating they are unhappy and LYBNILWY, is it reasonable that they should expect fidelity from their spouse? If so, for how long? Until the divorce is final?


I may be in the minority, but no that's not reasonable.

If she left, you are under no obligation of fidelity. Now, if you two agreed you would work on things and that will include no dating, sex, etc. keep you hands to yourself.

Be more concerned that dating too early could hurt you and the woman you're dating, rather than if it's cheating for you to do that.

You're expressed you don't want a GF or relationship, so you've got that covered. However, if seeing other women is delaying your decision on what to do with your marriage, back off. Take some time to decide what you want, communicate it to your wife and do it.

She left, you don't owe her anything, including fidelity.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

angstire said:


> I may be in the minority, but no that's not reasonable.
> 
> If she left, you are under no obligation of fidelity. Now, if you two agreed you would work on things and that will include no dating, sex, etc. keep you hands to yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. Hoping more will chime in on the issue.


So last night I get a text from my wife:

Her: How was your day
Me: Good, did this with the boys, did that with the boys, you?
Her: Fine, I thought about you all day
Me: Really? Why?
Her: Cause I miss you
Me: It's late, I'm going to bed, please be here in the morning so I can go to work.

Why is she doing this? She made her decision, I think she should live with it.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Plan B, emotional tampon, whatever.

She made the decision, but perhaps she's confused about what to do next. 

Are you committed to being done? If you are, then pull the trigger on that. Can you imagine being happily married to her 10 years from now?

However, if you're confused or not sure, it may be time to get some serious, weekly MC for the two of you. 

You don't want to extend out to her and then have her in the driver's seat.

I'll just ask, Do you know what you want to happen? Do you KNOW?

If you know what you want, do it. If you're confused, stop dating and think hard about what you want. At this point, what matters to you and me, is what you want. What she wants is irrelevant.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

angstire said:


> Plan B, emotional tampon, whatever.
> 
> She made the decision, but perhaps she's confused about what to do next.
> 
> ...


You are asking all the right questions man and I appreciate that. Can I see myself married to her in 10 years? No, I don't think so. I believe my marriage is over, and the reason I'm coming to that realization has nothing to do with the new girl I've been chatting with. It starting happening before her. I'm not afraid to be alone anymore. I'm not afraid to be without her. I know that I will be OK and that my kids will be OK. When she cheated, I shouldered some blame for that at the time. It was wrong, but I felt it was something I did to make her do it. I was afraid to be alone, I was afraid to break-up my family. Well, now I AM alone, now my family IS broken up, and everything is OK. I don't have to stomach or tolerate what she did to me anymore.

Do I know what I want to happen? I think so. At this point I know. I'm a bit afraid that maybe, I'm going through a phase right now, and that I might change my mind. I don't feel like I'll change my mind, but I just don't know what the future holds. The advice I have been given is to move on. Better myself. This is exactly what I've been doing, and I feel good. I respect myself. I have a hard time believing I could respect myself going back to her after I already gave her a chance, and she chose to leave anyway. I'm sick of feeling like a tool. I'm sick of going out to the grocery store with my family and fearing I might see the POSOM there. I'm finding my peace with all this.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

You sound like you know.

I would rather see people stay in marriages if they can make them work and both parties can out what they want from them. 

But if you aren't getting what you want and you know what you want, then move things towards ending the marriage. She's using you for an emotional fix and stringing you along to keep you as plan B. This is insidious. Unless she's kicked out POSOM or brought up MC with you or said she wants to change so you can be together; she's done nothing. She's said words, but her actions haven't followed them.

btw, getting over that feeling of being scared about future for kids, self, etc. is very normal. We get used to the marriage and get a little lazy about thinking it will just be this way. This is why there are so many unhappy marriages. People just accept they have to stay and then they don't ask for changes when bad behavior pops up, due to the laziness. I was guilty of this too.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

So here's the latest drama:

A few weeks ago my W asked if I wanted to take the kids to the movies together. I said sure. Yesterday she texts me:

Her: Are you sure your OK with going to the movies with us?
Me: I'm going to pass, sorry
Her: Why?
Me: I won't pretend to be a family. Not fair to the kids.

At this point she gets mad. We were supposed to have a sit down talk about our finances, which she doesn't want to do anymore. I ask:

Me: Does this have to do with me not wanting to go to the movies? We should be able to sit down as adults and discuss important matters.
Her: I really wanted to see you, but obviously you don't want to see me!!!!

So at this point I channel my inner "Conrad" and say:

Me: I'm not OK with you talking like that to me.
Her: Talking like how to you?
Me: Treating me like a criminal. I'm not OK with this, and I think we should stop texting now.

She bickered a few more times and I just stopped texting her. I don't understand how she thinks it's ok to cheat, then have me take her back and try and make her the happy, then leave, cause she's unhappy... and then just have me take her back again. It's not that easy. She has done alot of damage.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Good job.

On finances give it a few days and suggest a time and place to meet and discuss. Have your list ready and share what you feel comfortable with her ahead of time. If she won't do it, I have further advice.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

And she's not remorseful.

How many times has a WS been too proud to admit that they made a mistake. They thought that OM/W would make them happy. Didn't. Thought leaving would make them happy. Didn't. Along the way they lose the ability to commit, not always but rather often
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> So here's the latest drama:
> 
> A few weeks ago my W asked if I wanted to take the kids to the movies together. I said sure. Yesterday she texts me:
> 
> ...


You teach people how to treat you.

That's how she thinks it's ok.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Conrad,

What does she think now? "I made a clear sign that I wanted undo it, but I was rejected," or "I went close to admitting that I messed up but I won't go further to discuss fault because cannot be all my fault. And if I admit it was my fault, he'll be insufferable for the rest our lives."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Conrad,
> 
> What does she think now? "I made a clear sign that I wanted undo it, but I was rejected," or "I went close to admitting that I messed up but I won't go further to discuss fault because cannot be all my fault. And if I admit it was my fault, he'll be insufferable for the rest our lives."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He needs to begin to focus on what is ok with him.

And what is not.

And, start living that way.

When someone crosses your boundary, don't instantaneously negotiate a covert contract where allowing it gets you something you want.


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## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> This post is exactly what I was expecting people to say.
> 
> The OM is not married so there was nothing to expose. I think I'm going to wait to finish IC before I apply for the divorce. I want to make sure my head is 100% glued on before I do so.
> 
> ...


Bro, don't let anyone on this site quilt you into staying with a cheating wife. I think you're handling things very well. If you end up reconciling with your cheating wife you'll just end up hating the person you've become. You're 29 years old. Move on. The world is your oyster.


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## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Thanks for the advice. Hoping more will chime in on the issue.
> 
> 
> So last night I get a text from my wife:
> ...


Listen man.... Don't engage in any banter or small talk with that woman. She's running game on you.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

I really appreciate all the additional input from all you guys. It's helping.

I just thought I would give everyone a little update. Turns out I've made a couple mistakes.

First, in regards to that other girl I met, things were moving a bit fast and I could feel she was getting a bit attached. I've asked her for some space. She was understanding but seemed upset. Oh well. I realize I was looking for someone to make me feel like a man, and make my feel normal. I accompished that with her. Now that I have my validation, I realize it's just too soon and I wasn't looking for a relationship anyway. There will be others and maybe there will still be her, but not now, or anytime soon.

In regards to my wife, she is pursuing me quite strongly now, and this is where I have made my mistake. I'm a man, and I enjoy sex. We have always had an incredible sex life. We had sex on Friday and Sunday. BIG MISTAKE. She can't handle just having sex. I have made my feelings extremely clear to her. I need time. I'm not ready, nor do I know if I'll ever be ready for our marriage again. I'm not trying to string her along at all, I just don't know for sure. I can tell all of you this; When I see her, I feel almost nothing. I'm still attracted to her, but I feel no emotion or feelings. I don't miss her much. I feel numb towards her in almost every way. Maybe it's the hurt she's caused me. Maybe it's a bitterness I feel, but I feel nothing towards her, and it's very strange.

So I have told her all these things, hours upon hours of conversations and she just doesn't get it. After sex on Sunday she wanted me to invite her to spend the night. She got extremely upset when I didn't cuddle with her on the couch. She's acting like a child and all it's doing is pushing me further away. I feel a tremendous amount of pressure from her to commit to the relationship. When she first left me, I asked her flat out, "will there ever be us again"? She told me she didn't know, and she didn't think so. Exactly 1 month ago to the day, we were having a conversation in which she told me therapy was helping her alot. I took this as positive news and asked her if she would be interested in doing marriage counselling once her therapy was over. She said she didn't know if it would help. Fast forward to Sunday, and you want to know what she said to me? She says when she left it was always her goal to get back together, and that she always wanted US. I almost fell out of my chair when she said this. WTF are you talking about I said? I called her on her bull**** flat out. That's 100% a lie.

Finally, I need to talk about my two little guys for a minute. I have a 9 and 6 year old. In the beginning I thought the 9 year old would have the tougher time with this. He's older, a tad bit more emotional as well. However, it's been the opposite.

Yesterday their mother came to pick them up to go to her family Thanksgiving. Before she arrived my 6 year old asked me if I could come too. I told him I couldn't but that he would have a great time and see all his cousins and that I would see him tomorrow. He seemed happy and that was it. When his mother arrived and they were getting ready to leave, he came and latched on to me. I could hear his nose start to sniffle, and it occured to me he was crying. That moment was my all time low in life. He's supposed to cry about getting a scratched knee, or his big brother giving him a hard time. He's not supposed to cry about his family not being together. It gutted me, and I still have not recovered emotionally from it. As he was crying, so was my wife, who came in to give me a hug. I accepted, and then she tried to kiss me. I turned away. They left. She would later send me a text stating she was upset I didn't kiss her. I sent her a text back stating I had more important things to think about at the time then satisfying her.

Thanks for listening.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Sorry, bro. 

No more sex with her, but you know that. It is giving her false hope and she doesn't deserve it. More importantly, it's keeping you attached to her (whether you think it is or not) and you need to detach and do a solid NC on her. She's having her cake and eating it too. She's playing a game on you. Stop giving her what she wants.

Good to realize you were trying to replace the marriage relationship with a new GF. If you're not ready, you're not ready. Replacement is not the answer; it's a crutch that will impede your healing.

As far as your son, really sorry. This is typical. All you can do is support him, answer his questions at an age appropriate level and be on the lookout for signs that he wants to talk.

Hugging your wife in front of your boys maintains the illusion that all is ok; it's not. If you don't want to hug her, doing that does nothing for you or your sons--only benefits her. She may be doing it to make herself look like the good parent in front of the boys. If you draw back, then you look a certain way to your kids.

Next time she sends you a text because she's pissed you didn't kiss her (or hug her), ignore it. You don't owe her an explanation. Lack of intimacy is what happens when you decide to leave a marriage, she will need to get used to that.

Overall, you're doing well. Don't worry about the backslide with the sex, those will happen. Just focus on what you want and if you want to detach from her, make darn sure you're not letting her cake eat by having sex with her. You're correct about her lies; that's what they are.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> She says when she left it was always her goal to get back together, and that she always wanted US. I almost fell out of my chair when she said this. WTF are you talking about I said? I called her on her bull**** flat out. That's 100% a lie.


Re-writing history to absolve herself of her guilt. Do you know if things have gone sour with the POSOM?



> Yesterday their mother came to pick them up to go to her family Thanksgiving. Before she arrived my 6 year old asked me if I could come too. I told him I couldn't but that he would have a great time and see all his cousins and that I would see him tomorrow. He seemed happy and that was it. When his mother arrived and they were getting ready to leave, he came and latched on to me. I could hear his nose start to sniffle, and it occured to me he was crying. That moment was my all time low in life. He's supposed to cry about getting a scratched knee, or his big brother giving him a hard time. He's not supposed to cry about his family not being together. It gutted me, and I still have not recovered emotionally from it. As he was crying, so was my wife, who came in to give me a hug. I accepted, and then she tried to kiss me. I turned away. They left. She would later send me a text stating she was upset I didn't kiss her. I sent her a text back stating I had more important things to think about at the time then satisfying her.


Man I feel for you here, reading this actually choked me up, so I can't imagine how it feels for you - I don't have kids so in that respect, I'm lucky that I only have to look out for me and me alone in all of this.

Regarding the sex, we're only human and all make mistakes. I've been sexual with my STBXW 4 times since we separated. Never actual intercourse, but it may as well have been. It just confuses things, the last time we were sexual, I tried to pursue her, and she destroyed me yet again. 

"It was a mistake, a one off, should never have happened, you have no place in my life." 

I still hear those words on repeat every single day, but I broke contact, started focusing on me and the words are getting quieter. I've got a long way to go, but I can see my improvement!

Don't beat yourself up about "mistakes". There's no such thing as a mistake, just a valuable learning opportunity, the past is the past, focus on the present.


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## jeffthechef (Sep 10, 2013)

I went out to dinner with my stbx and kids last week, and it killed me afterwords. She was all smiles, huggy, touchy; and I reciprocated. Backslides happen, own it and move on. Their selfishness knows no bounds. I've been spending a lot of time with my daughters (12/10). I heard my youngest crying herself to sleep last night. All I could do was cuddle with her and listen to her "wishes". It f!cking kills me. The truth isn't known for its kindness. It's over. Lets experience it and get on with our awesome lives


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

This is what I would do.

Get the filing for the divorce ready. Take a picture of it and/or scan it, and text or email it to your wife. Tell her if she doesn't move back into the family home by x o'clock tomorrow, you will file for divorce. Then do it.

You can always withdraw it after the fact if she has a change of heart and you are game.

If she moves back in, ditch the piece on the side and work on your marriage.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> I really appreciate all the additional input from all you guys. It's helping.
> 
> I just thought I would give everyone a little update. Turns out I've made a couple mistakes.
> 
> ...


FC,

What was your wife's childhood like?


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## Anuvia (Jul 10, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> I really appreciate all the additional input from all you guys. It's helping.
> 
> I just thought I would give everyone a little update. Turns out I've made a couple mistakes.
> 
> ...


Keep having sex with her and the next thing you know you'll be back in a relationship with her and have no clue how it happened. If you don't have any feelings for her and dont want to be with her then tell her to kick rocks. You're making things more complicated than it needs to be by still having sex with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FC Dynamite said:


> This chick isn't my gf though. Not even close. I don't want a relationship with her. I really like talking to her, makes me feel alive again. I'm not sure I would classifying myself as cheating on my wife though. Yes we're married, but separated. Some people never get a divorce and just remain separated.


Technically you are having an affair. It’s at least and EA and moving on to a PA since you are making out with her. The way marriage works is that you are married until the divorce is final. In some states, infidelity before the divorce is final is enough to affect things like alimony, child support and property division. 

Your wife thinks that you are working on your marriage with her. Yet you are dating…. Aka having an affair.



FC Dynamite said:


> I would have to wait a year for a divorce. I'm a man, just a simple animal, I enjoy the companionship of a women, and I'm not sure I could wait a year for it.


That’s a good excuse for an affair. You have a wife who you are having sex with. You have a wife who you have been telling that you are working on your marriage. She’s a woman, right?


FC Dynamite said:


> Right now, I'm 99% sure I just want to move on. I guess the right thing for me to do would be to tell my wife it's 100% over for me. I honestly don't want to hurt her. I still love her.


Why were you doing the 180 when your wife was not actively in an affair? The reason for the 180 that is give out here is to help the BS hold it together while the WS is continuing an affair. 

Doing the 180 (for BS’s while the affair is going on) when you tell your spouse that you are working towards marital recover will only lead to a huge wedge being created between the two of you. It makes recovery impossible.

Between your affair and you doing the 180, you have not been working on marriage recovery. You need to be honest with your wife and tell her that you have not really been working to fix things. Instead you have been working to leave the marriage.

You need to decide what you want.

If you want a divorce then be honest with her.

If you want to recover your marriage then it's time to commit to the recovery.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> And she's not remorseful.
> 
> How many times has a WS been too proud to admit that they made a mistake. They thought that OM/W would make them happy. Didn't. Thought leaving would make them happy. Didn't. Along the way they lose the ability to commit, not always but rather often


From what I've read, few WS are remorseful. They often are most of the way out of the marriage by the time an affair starts, so they feel .. meh!!

IT sounds like the OP's wife is not happy and sees no solution that will work out well. From what the OP says, I agree there is nothing for her in or out of the marriage. Not now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FC Dynamite said:


> If someone leaves their spouse, stating they are unhappy and LYBNILWY, is it reasonable that they should expect fidelity from their spouse? If so, for how long? Until the divorce is final?".


Marriages go through all kinds of things. There are times when one or the other spouse is very unhappy. There are times when they do not feel love for the other. Couples take breaks from each other and work on things. A lot of couples file for divorce and then end up stopping the divorce.

You are legally married until the day your divorce is final. Some states have laws/rules that once the divorce is filed, it's ok to start seeing other people. Others stay that until the day the divorce is final, it's adultery and can affect the divorce.

Yes it is reasonable for married people to expect fidelity, even when they are going through hard times.




FC Dynamite said:


> I should add, as a final comment, that 3 weeks into our separation we were having a discussion over text. In that conversation I asked her if her expectation of me was to be faithful to her. I asked her this because I wanted her to tell me that YES, she absolutely expected it. I guess it was my way of knowing if I still have a chance. Instead, she said "It was my life, and I should do whatever makes me happy".


Even with her saying that, you should tell her that you have started to date. At least that way she knows where she stands.

If the two of you decide to really try for recovery, you really do have to tell her about your relationship with this OW, making out, etc. .. it's an affair.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ele,

I think people should be more careful what they say.

You tell someone you're not "in love with them anymore", you open the door to all sorts of things.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

FC Dynamite said:


> Me: I'm not OK with you talking like that to me.
> Her: Talking like how to you?
> Me: Treating me like a criminal.


I see nothing in the text change that even remotely comes close to her treating you like a criminal. Where did you get that from?



jeffthechef said:


> I went out to dinner with my stbx and kids last week, and it killed me afterwords.


I hope you now realize it's a very bad idea to spend time together as a family if you're planning on divorcing. If nothing else, it's confusing and very unfair to the children who want nothing more than for their parents to be together. It's like holding a treat out for a dog and lifting it higher than the dog can jump, over and over again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Ele,
> 
> I think people should be more careful what they say.
> 
> You tell someone you're not "in love with them anymore", you open the door to all sorts of things.


Yet when other BSs have come here and say that they had an affair, even an EA, after they found out about their spouse's affair they are soundly beat about the head and shoulders verbally.

Consistency seems to be missing here.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Yet when other BSs have come here and say that they had an affair, even an EA, after they found out about their spouse's affair they are soundly beat about the head and shoulders verbally.
> 
> Consistency seems to be missing here.


I think it's projection.

This is a forum - largely of - betrayed spouses and/or spouses discovering the depths of the betrayal.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Wow... I wasn't expecting this type of ****storm. It's cool though, makes for good conversation and keeps me thinking. I'll do my best to answer the questions.



Conrad said:


> FC,
> 
> What was your wife's childhood like?


She comes from a divorced family. She was only 6 when it happened. Her mother is very loving but has a terrible way of showing it. Her father is a complete ********* and the only reason he has a relationship with my wife is that she is a forgiver. He constantly tried to make my mother-in-law into a bad person, and tried to buy affection from his children. To this day, my in-laws wish each other dead.



EleGirl said:


> Technically you are having an affair. It’s at least and EA and moving on to a PA since you are making out with her. The way marriage works is that you are married until the divorce is final. In some states, infidelity before the divorce is final is enough to affect things like alimony, child support and property division.
> 
> Your wife thinks that you are working on your marriage with her. Yet you are dating…. Aka having an affair.
> 
> ...


Like I said, I have ended things with the other girl, not that there was anything there to begin with. My interpretation of the 180 was different. I saw it as a strategy to help me move on. The one thing you might not realize is that when my wife left, things felt very definate to me. She did not speak of any reconciliation at all. I felt it was over, but I was still grasping at straws. I asked her to go to marriage counselling which she flat out refused. She would ask me to text her, then not text me back ALL DAY, and then tell me her phone was dead. On one occasion, she asked me to text her later. So I did. No response. I waited up all night waiting for that return text... didn't happen. The next day I saw her and asked what happened and she said she slept at a friends house. 

What I'm trying to tell you is that up until recently, I had not reason to believe my wife wanted us to work, or that she just needed a break. All the signs pointed to divorce. I implimented a variation of the 180 so I could try to move on. I did things like; stop talking about our relationship, stop having conversations that didn't pertain to the children, I stopped texting her, I stopped asking how she was doing etc.



EleGirl said:


> Marriages go through all kinds of things. There are times when one or the other spouse is very unhappy. There are times when they do not feel love for the other. Couples take breaks from each other and work on things. A lot of couples file for divorce and then end up stopping the divorce.
> 
> You are legally married until the day your divorce is final. Some states have laws/rules that once the divorce is filed, it's ok to start seeing other people. Others stay that until the day the divorce is final, it's adultery and can affect the divorce.
> 
> ...


I expected fidelity from my wife while we were fully committed to our marriage and didn't get it.

Some people never get officially divorced, just remain separated. Are they committing adultery? I understand how the courts might see it, but if you remove the law from the equation, and we just talk about emotions, I can hardly understand your logic. Someone tells you they aren't in love with you anymore and they leave your marital home. They don't want to be with you anymore. You meet a chick, you kiss her, to me that's not cheating. I'm sorry but I disagree with you.



lenzi said:


> I see nothing in the text change that even remotely comes close to her treating you like a criminal. Where did you get that from?
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you now realize it's a very bad idea to spend time together as a family if you're planning on divorcing. If nothing else, it's confusing and very unfair to the children who want nothing more than for their parents to be together. It's like holding a treat out for a dog and lifting it higher than the dog can jump, over and over again.


I didn't elaborate in my post but basically, my wife wanted to take the kids to the movies as a family. I told her I didn't want to pretend to be a family. She became extremely mad suggesting I didn't care about making things work etc. I told her to remind me who left the marriage. Who is the one who decided they didn't want this anymore? She responding with something like "Oh ya, I forgot this is all my fault right". At that point I knew the convo was going no where and I felt I was being unjustifiably ridiculed for my reasoning of not spending time with my family. Hense the treating me like a criminal comment.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> Wow... I wasn't expecting this type of ****storm. It's cool though, makes for good conversation and keeps me thinking. I'll do my best to answer the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> She comes from a divorced family. She was only 6 when it happened. Her mother is very loving but has a terrible way of showing it. Her father is a complete ********* and the only reason he has a relationship with my wife is that she is a forgiver. He constantly tried to make my mother-in-law into a bad person, and tried to buy affection from his children. To this day, my in-laws wish each other dead.


This wasn't a red flag for you?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> This wasn't a red flag for you?


No, not really. We met young, and she always told me she wanted more for her life and for her marriage then what her parents had. I realize now, that because of this desire for perfection out of a marriage, that she always had some pretty unreasonable expecations from me. I was to be prince charming to her, no exceptions. I always kind of felt like I couldn't live up to her expectation and therefore, at some point, just stopped trying. With that being said, my wife has truly been an incredible wife to me up until about 1 year ago. She always put me first, always made me feel loved. If she was shopping and saw something she thought I would like, she bought it for me. I trusted her 100% and never thought she would hurt me, but like I said, about a year ago I saw some changes. She wanted to spend more time with friends, she started speaking about the POSOM more often, she became protective of her phone etc. I noticed an obvious retraction in her love for me and it worried me alot which is the reason I began to snoop.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> No, not really. We met young, and she always told me she wanted more for her life and for her marriage then what her parents had. I realize now, that because of this desire for perfection out of a marriage, that she always had some pretty unreasonable expecations from me. I was to be prince charming to her, no exceptions. I always kind of felt like I couldn't live up to her expectation and therefore, at some point, just stopped trying. With that being said, my wife has truly been an incredible wife to me up until about 1 year ago. She always put me first, always made me feel loved. If she was shopping and saw something she thought I would like, she bought it for me. I trusted her 100% and never thought she would hurt me, but like I said, about a year ago I saw some changes. She wanted to spend more time with friends, she started speaking about the POSOM more often, she became protective of her phone etc. I noticed an obvious retraction in her love for me and it worried me alot which is the reason I began to snoop.


How old are you now?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Wow FC, your wife's childhood/parents sound a lot like my wife's.

The finality of your wife's decision sounds a lot like my wife's. All the signs point to divorce and that she is done with us, but up until two weeks ago we couldn't keep our hands off each other when we saw each other. I haven't seen her in two weeks now or this would probably still be the case.

Whilst I haven't started dating yet and have no immediate interest in doing so, I have been receiving a lot of female attention, and have been spending time with some of them/talking to them - nothing more. I question whether I would be in the wrong if I were to elevate any of these platonic relationships to something sexual. Emotionally is a no no right now though.

If your wife left, she ended things, and has given you no reason to believe that she will R ever, I think you're within your right to do whatever you like. As harsh as this may sound - do you think she will maintain fidelity until the marriage is officially ended? I don't think my STBXW will, and her behaviour patterns suggest she didn't before she even left. I didn't snoop for fear of what I might find. But based on trends I've seen her, the signs are screaming "affair".

We were young when we met too, very young. I think she had unreasonable expectations of a perfect marriage as well.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> How old are you now?


We are both 29.



WantWifeBack said:


> Wow FC, your wife's childhood/parents sound a lot like my wife's.
> 
> The finality of your wife's decision sounds a lot like my wife's. All the signs point to divorce and that she is done with us, but up until two weeks ago we couldn't keep our hands off each other when we saw each other. I haven't seen her in two weeks now or this would probably still be the case.
> 
> ...


Quite the opposite man. When my wife left, it seemed final. Like I said in previous posts, she told me she no longer was in love with me, that she resented my shortcomings in the marriage, that I was controlling and didn't allow her to be the person sh wanted to be, and finally, that she resented herself for the A. Now she wants a R. I could write a novel about our relationship, with most of it being good, but whenever I'm writing these posts, I just fear getting too far in depth.

Basically, I never gave her enough attention. She also feels like I never truly loved her and only married her cause it was the right thing to do. We have a 9 year old together, he was 2 at our wedding. She also informed me recently that she never trusted me, which was strange cause she told me constantly to just go out, get drunk and enjoy time with my friends. So, the likelyhood is that she wanted me to go out more often, so she had an excuse to do the same.

She says I ruined her self-esteem by looking at porn. I've looked at porn since the internet was invented, so it was just tough to shake, and had nothing to do with how much I desired her, because I've always been insanely attracted to her.

So she tells me now, that through her therapy she realizes that all of my faults in our relationship had nothing to do with her. It wasn't her fault. She also realizes that I never learned how to be affectionate because I wasn't raised in a affectionate environment, which is true for the most part. My Dad always worked or was drunk with his buddies. Never spent time with us. My Mom hated my Dad for this, and was so busy that she never gave us the attention we needed. Their marriage was and still is in shambles. My grandparents were the worlds greatest, but I only saw them every couple of weeks.

Basically, she says, that if I truly owned up to my downfalls in the marriage, that she would forgive me and that would be the end of it, which I find hard to believe. It also really puts me in a difficult position because I forgave her for the affair, because I wanted my family back. I was scared to lose everything. Now that we are separated, a combination of her affair and the fact she left me makes me not want this anymore. I'm bitter in a sense, but not mad. I don't hate her, but will I ever be able to look at her from the opposite end of the couch and not think "How could you do this to us?" I'm not sure. More time will tell.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Quite the opposite man. When my wife left, it seemed final. Like I said in previous posts, she told me she no longer was in love with me, that she resented my shortcomings in the marriage, that I was controlling and didn't allow her to be the person sh wanted to be, and finally, that she resented herself for the A. Now she wants a R. I could write a novel about our relationship, with most of it being good, but whenever I'm writing these posts, I just fear getting too far in depth.


When my wife left it also seemed final, it took me a while to accept that she'd made her choice, but she had. She'd made it before she walked out the door. I thought that perhaps she was on the fence about our relationship and I could pull her back, I was wrong.

She also resented me for my shortcomings, and some pretty unreasonable and irrational things too. She told me that I was controlling and that she couldn't be herself with me. That I wasn't right for her.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> When my wife left it also seemed final, it took me a while to accept that she'd made her choice, but she had. She'd made it before she walked out the door. I thought that perhaps she was on the fence about our relationship and I could pull her back, I was wrong.
> 
> She also resented me for my shortcomings, and some pretty unreasonable and irrational things too. She told me that I was controlling and that she couldn't be herself with me. That I wasn't right for her.


I wasn't trying to say we are in opposite situations, or that we are not similar, because we are. I've been following your thread since you started it.

What I was trying to say was, my situation was opposite to which you described paraphrasing " If she does not want to R, and shows no signs of ever wanting to", because my wife wants to reconcile and she's pressuring me strongly to do so.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> I wasn't trying to say we are in opposite situations, or that we are not similar, because we are. I've been following your thread since you started it.
> 
> What I was trying to say was, my situation was opposite to which you described paraphrasing " If she does not want to R, and shows no signs of ever wanting to", because my wife wants to reconcile and she's pressuring me strongly to do so.


Ahhh, gotcha.

She didn't at the start though right? You're a lot further along than I also.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Some people never get officially divorced, just remain separated. Are they committing adultery? I understand how the courts might see it, but if you remove the law from the equation, and we just talk about emotions, I can hardly understand your logic. Someone tells you they aren't in love with you anymore and they leave your marital home. They don't want to be with you anymore. You meet a chick, you kiss her, to me that's not cheating. I'm sorry but I disagree with you.


I agree FC, once you get the ILYBINILWY, all bets are off as far as "affairs". 

People getting involved before they're ready are just going to hurt themselves and their partner. But, your wife leaves, says she doesn't love you and you can't do anything with another woman until the D is final? Why? To prove self worth through celibacy? 

If some people want to remain celibate as long as they're legally married, good for them. I don't see why and it's unreasonable of them to expect that of others, like you and me.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Basically, she says, that if I truly owned up to my downfalls in the marriage, that she would forgive me and that would be the end of it, which I find hard to believe. It also really puts me in a difficult position because I forgave her for the affair, because I wanted my family back. I was scared to lose everything. Now that we are separated, a combination of her affair and the fact she left me makes me not want this anymore. I'm bitter in a sense, but not mad. I don't hate her, but will I ever be able to look at her from the opposite end of the couch and not think "How could you do this to us?" I'm not sure. More time will tell.


FC, you're getting right here, what WWB and I and others would get if our WAWs came back. "I will try R, but only if you admit you're to blame for everything."

Don't buy it. She's rooking you.

Anger is good to focus your feelings on what you want. I commend you for avoiding hating her. That's toxic for you and does nothing to her.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

angstire said:


> FC, you're getting right here, what WWB and I and others would get if our WAWs came back. "I will try R, but only if you admit you're to blame for everything."
> 
> Don't buy it. She's rooking you.
> 
> Anger is good to focus your feelings on what you want. I commend you for avoiding hating her. That's toxic for you and does nothing to her.


Blame is never one sided, so don't accept it as such.

angstire speaks truth.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC,

Has your wife ever been to individual counseling?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> FC,
> 
> Has your wife ever been to individual counseling?


She is currently in counselling Conrad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> She is currently in counselling Conrad.


What's she telling you?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> What's she telling you?


Mostly everything.

Regarding her affair, she maintains she doesn't know why she did it. She thinks it was about getting something emotionally that she didn't receive from me. Her counsellor tells her it's OK to not kow why she did. More importantly, that she feels true remorse for her actions, to which she claims she does. She said she was selfish, and that she will never truly forgive herself for it.

Regarding us, she realizes my shortcomings were not a direct result of something she did, or didn't do. Me watching porn had nothing to do with her physically. She also says, that my lack of affection, romance, and intimacy towards her, would never have been an issue if she felt that I truly loved her. She says she tried to make up for it by asking me to be over-the-top romantic and affectionate which was never going to work, because it's not the type of person I am.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

FC Dynamite said:


> Mostly everything.
> 
> Regarding her affair, she maintains she doesn't know why she did it. She thinks it was about getting something emotionally that she didn't receive from me. Her counsellor tells her it's OK to not kow why she did. More importantly, that she feels true remorse for her actions, to which she claims she does. She said she was selfish, and that she will never truly forgive herself for it.
> 
> Regarding us, she realizes my shortcomings were not a direct result of something she did, or didn't do. Me watching porn had nothing to do with her physically. She also says, that my lack of affection, romance, and intimacy towards her, would never have been an issue if she felt that I truly loved her. She says she tried to make up for it by asking me to be over-the-top romantic and affectionate which was never going to work, because it's not the type of person I am.


Sounds like she's a fitness test factory.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Time for an update.

Where do I start? My wife took the kids on a little trip last weekend to her family cottage. I thought this was great and gave her a chance to clear her mind and just focus on having fun with the kids. While she was there I received numberous texts. Several texts per day basically following the same trend; That she loves me and misses me. That she is to blame for all this. That she realized that my faults in the past were not a significant and she made them out to be. I tried my best not to respond, often just asking how the kids were and whether they were all having fun. On the last day, she texted me again, saying they were leaving shortly and that she loves me and misses me. I told her to drive safe. She later texted why I never respond to her when she texts and why I'm not affectionate with her. I told her we would talk when she got back.

When she returned, I explained to her like I had before, that I was not ready to make this marriage work. What I needed was time. I could not guarantee that I would ever want to be with her again, and that for the most part, I feel no emotion around her at all. She took this pretty hard, and told me basically that she knows I will never come back to her and at this point she needs to pull away from us. I felt horrible, but knew she was probably making the best decision for her.

She has been living at her Dad's since she left me. Their relationship is terrible and she wants out bad. I have been in our marital home since the separation and take care of all the bills myself, with the exception of half the mortgage (which isnt much) and half the insurance (which she uses). She informed me yesterday that she is going to be looking for a place. In fact, she has already found a townhome she likes. Her brother would move in and pay half the rent and utilities. So basically, I'm going to lose half of my belongings in my home to furnish her new place, which is fine, I figured it might happen at some point. It's really going to leave me in a bind financially though. I honestly thought I had more time to make this decision. I understand why she's doing it cause she hates her dad now.

As an aside, I really miss talking to that girl I was chatting up. I know it's the right decision though. She still texts me from time to time, but I allow hours to pass before responding. I've told her I wasn't ready for something, and she's not texting me as a nuisance, just to see how I am, and to crack a few jokes.

So I leave you all with a question. If you were in my situation, with a wife who betrayed you and left you, but realized she was wrong and truly was remorsful and wants desperately to R, however, you feel no emotion towards her, what would you do? What if you thought maybe you were just hurt, and these were still early days and you could possibly let go of everything? I've heard many people say, that IF you can make a marriage work, especially when kids are involved, then you do. You do everything it takes to make it work. Any thoughts?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Time for an update.
> 
> Where do I start? My wife took the kids on a little trip last weekend to her family cottage. I thought this was great and gave her a chance to clear her mind and just focus on having fun with the kids. While she was there I received numberous texts. Several texts per day basically following the same trend; That she loves me and misses me. That she is to blame for all this. That she realized that my faults in the past were not a significant and she made them out to be. I tried my best not to respond, often just asking how the kids were and whether they were all having fun. On the last day, she texted me again, saying they were leaving shortly and that she loves me and misses me. I told her to drive safe. She later texted why I never respond to her when she texts and why I'm not affectionate with her. I told her we would talk when she got back.
> 
> ...


Wow, this sounds like a tough situation.

Firstly, I'd say remove the kids from the equation - you can still be a good father to them, and she a good mother, regardless of whether you are married or not. If you "stay together for the kids" you could end up miserable, hating one another, and the kids would suffer more as a result. They'd pick up on these things, and may well grow up to think that the way you treat each other is how a marriage is supposed to be.

If you're going to do it, you need to do it for the right reasons.

What would your reasons, for YOU be for reconciling?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Her level of remorse has risen. When she speaks of it you feel nothing? Do you want to hear her talk about it?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

MC for starts. Get a trained professional involved to help referee.

I doubt her sincerity: 

Mrs. FC "I want you back."

FC "Sorry, I don't have feeling for you anymore."

Mrs. FC "Ok, well I'm moving on then."

Not a lot of effort there once she's rebuffed. Reconciling isn't easy and if she's serious, she needs to put in the effort. If she has true remorse and love for you, doesn't it make sense she would know it will take time to persuade you that's she's had a serious change of heart?

Not advising to blow off this chance; it would be great if a year from now you two are back together and happy. That can happen.

But you need a neutral third party in there helping you to negotiate the hurt and help repair the damage. It will be tough for both of you to do this work. Do you want to? That's your first question. If you think of your ideal wife (or you list of wants and needs for a partner), can she fulfill them if she does the work?

Answering these should help guide you to your answer for what comes next. Then, it's on her to do the work with you.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> Wow, this sounds like a tough situation.
> 
> Firstly, I'd say remove the kids from the equation - you can still be a good father to them, and she a good mother, regardless of whether you are married or not. If you "stay together for the kids" you could end up miserable, hating one another, and the kids would suffer more as a result. They'd pick up on these things, and may well grow up to think that the way you treat each other is how a marriage is supposed to be.
> 
> ...


It's tough to remove the kids from the equation. I know I can be a great father to them, but I've already noticed some changes in them as I've expressed in previous posts. I wouldn't stay together "just" for the kids though. My youngest is 6 and I'm not wasting 12 more years. 

Some reasons for reconciling? Hmmm... I loved her more than any one person, place or thing in this world. I have forgiven her for her affair, although I still think about it regularly, which makes it hard to live with. I have kids, a house, vehicles and 11 years of being together.

Those are some "reasons" but I'm not sure they're the right ones.



LongWalk said:


> Her level of remorse has risen. When she speaks of it you feel nothing? Do you want to hear her talk about it?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


There is no doubt in my mind she is remorseful. When she speaks of it, I feel bad for her but it doesn't make me want to be with her anymore. I hear her talk about it everyday.



angstire said:


> MC for starts. Get a trained professional involved to help referee.
> 
> I doubt her sincerity:
> 
> ...


Good advice, but she doesn't want to move on. She just wants to get out of the toxic situation of living with her POS Dad. I'm not making this up, I despise this guy and it bothers me that my kids even spend time there. The place she is looking at is a 6 month sub-lease, with the option to stay longer. So she has indicated to me that she hopes I change my mind in 6 months and that we can be together again.

Fawk me.... I don't know what to do. If I knew that I could love her and spend the rest of my life with her, I'd ask her back today. This situation would almost be easier if she hated me and never wanted to see me again, but she's changed. She realized what she lost and she wants it back. Everyone kept telling me when she first left that I didn't know how I would feel about her in a few months. I thought they were crazy, but it's true.

So now I have a choice to make. Do I:

1) Tell her to move back in and do a live-in-separation for the time being while I work through my feelings. I have a finished basement with a bedroom and rec-room. I could live down there and she could take the upstairs bedroom. We could make/eat dinners as a family, but spend free time apart. She works alot anyway, so I would still have time to myself.

2) Allow her to get this new place, which screws me huge financially. I'm an Engineer but would have to get a second job delivering pizzas or something to make ends meet. I might be able to get my brother to move in and pay rent, which would help a bit, but still won't be enough. I'm also considering asking for a raise.

3) Allow her to get this new place, fix up the couple of things in my house (trim, paint etc.) and try and sell it. I figured I'd have to sell it at some point, but I thought my mind would have been made up about my marriage before I did it. It's also not the best time of year to sell the home, and I could use the equity from the sale to pay off some mutual debts and put a down payment on my next house.

I know you guys won't have the answers for me, but I appreciate the advice.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Tough, indeed.
To give cobsideration you need to spend time together.

One solution is to have a small place nearby and take turns living with your children. Depends on how well you can get along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Update:

So it's been a bit over 3 months since we've been separated and about a month since she started asking for us to be together again.

She's done exactly what I've asked of her and given me space. She doesn't text me, and she doesn't talk about our marriage. She is pleasant, and nice to be around, and now, I'm starting to miss her again.

I'm starting to think I want this marriage to work. The high of having girls attracted to me has subsided. I got my validation and realized I didn't really need it.

She has realized she can't live without me. She is extremely remorseful.

So what I'm asking of everyone now, is if I do decide I want to give this a shot, what is the best way to proceed? Start with a few dates? Maybe a few sleepovers in time? If all goes well, maybe wait a few months to move back in together?

I've changed alot as a person, all for the better. I have all my hobbies back. I go out with friends. I'm self assured and confident. I feel like the type of person I've wanted to be for a long time now.

What's everyones thoughts?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Update:
> 
> So it's been a bit over 3 months since we've been separated and about a month since she started asking for us to be together again.
> 
> ...


Must be a tough situation man, I think you should take some more time and space and not rush in to a decision lightly.

My STBXW has been being warmer to me lately, the last few times we've spoken I've started to see more of the woman I fell for in her. I'm starting to feel like I'd like to try for an R myself, but I know there's no use as she hasn't given me any reason to think that she's open to one.

Much like you, I have my hobbies back too, and some old friends, and some new ones, and women are attracted to me. I'm a better person, and I'm a different man to the man she left. She is a different woman to the woman who left me.

You need to ask yourself whether the time is right for you, and whether you think it'll be sustainable in the long term - if you're just going to end up breaking up again anyway, R will just prolong the pain.

If you decide to pursue an R, I'd say a few small dates would be the best suggestion, perhaps coffee. Something informal, not too time consuming, but something that encourages communication.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Hi FC,

I've been in R for 10 yrs. It has been difficult at times but we are very good now. We still have bad days occasionally but they are few and far between now. It is a better M now than it was when we married and certainly better than the five years preceding D-Day which were pretty damn miserable. 

So, R is something that you are now considering?

Are you sure that is what you want?

A false R or R that fails quickly is going to hurt your kids.

Stay apart unless you are fully ready to make a commitment to your W or her to you. 

If you have the time, money and inclination start with some MC. 

Continue to talk to her about what she has going on in IC. Do you feel she is making progress? I assume that your not keen on an open M, so how is she going to affair proof your M going forward?

Don't allow her to rugsweep. You have a question...she answers completely and honestly every time, without exception. Be honest with her. If you are hurting, let her know and allow her to try to make you feel better. 

If you find that you are discussing heavy stuff way too often and seems to be hindering what you are trying to accomplish, agree to table those issues for discussion on designated days or save them for MC.

She has feelings too, so remember that you are trying to build a new marriage. R is not an excuse to berate or abuse her or browbeat your W into submission.

Continue to monitor. 

She has to give you access to everything, all the time, without exception. No secrets ever. 

I would suggest that you date...often.

Take couples weekends away from the kids to help build your bond. Do marriage encounters. Better your communication. Read books together; 5 Love Languages, His Needs Her Needs. 

Lots of sex. Try new things.

Move back in together when you feel you are prepared to make a full and complete commitment to it.

Keep doing things outside the M that you are interested in and that make you happy. Not other women. 

I will probably think of more.

Keep us posted.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

Thank you for your very detailed response. I've made some comments above in bold.



Tron said:


> Hi FC,
> 
> I've been in R for 10 yrs. It has been difficult at times but we are very good now. We still have bad days occasionally but they are few and far between now. It is a better M now than it was when we married and certainly better than the five years preceding D-Day which were pretty damn miserable.
> 
> ...


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FC, this sounds like good progress from her. Promising. 

Tron had great advice. Keep up with MC. Date. Try to get closer. Do NOT move back in together until you feel thru MC that the marriage has a solid foundation to work.

Patience and a consistent desire to work on things from her is a VERY good sign of her commitment.

Good luck bro. I can't say that I'm not a little jealous. 

I hope things continue to work and grow for you two.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

angstire said:


> FC, this sounds like good progress from her. Promising.
> 
> Tron had great advice. Keep up with MC. Date. Try to get closer. Do NOT move back in together until you feel thru MC that the marriage has a solid foundation to work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the advice man. You've been extremely supportive.

Just a little update:

We've been spending some time together. She'll come over for dinner and we'll watch a movie or play with the kids. I'm struggling feeling emotion towards her. It's nice to have her around, but almost in a way it's nice to see your friend. I'm thinking this is temporary, or atleast I'm hoping it is. I loved this woman unconditionally 4 months ago, I'd like to think I can fall in love with her again.

She is trying really hard without being too pushy. I still feel as if there is some pressure on us to make it work. Not externally, but from within. Maybe I'm putting unnecessary pressure on myself. This could stem from the fact she has mentioned on a few occasions that my heart doesn't seem into it. I've just come to the realization that these things can't be forced and that it is entirely possible that in 3-6 months from now I'm going to decide that I can't do this and that's that. I'm really hoping that's not the case. 

Anyway, day by day, that's my motto. I'll keep plugging away and putting the work in and hopefully everything works out.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Thanks for all the advice man. You've been extremely supportive.
> 
> Just a little update:
> 
> ...


Best of luck to you FC  I can't say that I'm not a little jealous either!

Just remember to do what's right for you. You don't want to R out of pressure, just for this to happen again in 6 months time.

Happy for you!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

FC Dynamite said:


> We've been spending some time together. She'll come over for dinner and we'll watch a movie or play with the kids.* I'm struggling feeling emotion towards her.* It's nice to have her around, but almost in a way it's nice to see your friend. I'm thinking this is temporary, or atleast I'm hoping it is. I loved this woman unconditionally 4 months ago, I'd like to think I can fall in love with her again.
> 
> She is trying really hard without being too pushy. I still feel as if there is some pressure on us to make it work. Not externally, but from within. Maybe I'm putting unnecessary pressure on myself. This could stem from the fact she has mentioned on a few occasions that my heart doesn't seem into it. I've just come to the realization that these things can't be forced and that it is entirely possible that in 3-6 months from now I'm going to decide that I can't do this and that's that. I'm really hoping that's not the case.
> 
> Anyway, day by day, that's my motto. I'll keep plugging away and putting the work in and hopefully everything works out.


You mentioned quite a few times about the lack of emotions for your wife after her affair. Have you read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74737-you-re-sorry.html

Ask yourself if that's what you want. Are you okay living as such?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> Best of luck to you FC  I can't say that I'm not a little jealous either!
> 
> Just remember to do what's right for you. You don't want to R out of pressure, just for this to happen again in 6 months time.
> 
> Happy for you!


Yeah I agree 100%. I don't want R out of pressure, I just feel some internal pressure on myself to try and make it work. If I could just fall in love with her again, I'm confident that it will work. I can see her remorse everyday. The time apart has really opened her eyes.



aug said:


> You mentioned quite a few times about the lack of emotions for your wife after her affair. Have you read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74737-you-re-sorry.html
> 
> Ask yourself if that's what you want. Are you okay living as such?


For clarification, my wifes affair happened Dec-Jan last year, so almost a year ago. I found out in March. After I found out, and we went to marriage counselling, I've never been more in love with her than at that time. I've struggled feeling any emotion towards her since she left me about 3 months ago probably as a result of me disconnecting from her as out of necessity to maintain my sanity.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> Yeah I agree 100%. I don't want R out of pressure, I just feel some internal pressure on myself to try and make it work. If I could just fall in love with her again, I'm confident that it will work. I can see her remorse everyday. The time apart has really opened her eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> For clarification, my wifes affair happened Dec-Jan last year, so almost a year ago. I found out in March. After I found out, and we went to marriage counselling, I've never been more in love with her than at that time. I've struggled feeling any emotion towards her since she left me about 3 months ago probably as a result of me disconnecting from her as out of necessity to maintain my sanity.


When me and my STBXW separated three years ago and reconciled, I'd never been more in love with her either, and she genuinely felt remorseful for her EA which became a rebound after she left me. I think it was because of her remorse and her sincere effort to "make it up to me" that I fell so deeply for her during this time.


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> When me and my STBXW separated three years ago and reconciled, I'd never been more in love with her either, and she genuinely felt remorseful for her EA which became a rebound after she left me. I think it was because of her remorse and her sincere effort to "make it up to me" that I fell so deeply for her during this time.


I'll try to explain my reasoning.

My wife and I were high school sweethearts and she got pregnant when we were 19. At 22 I finished school and we got married. I married her cause I loved her, but in honesty, a lot of it had to do with "doing the right thing". I got married cause I wanted to, but I know now I wasn't ready.

Through our marriage I was immature, as one can expect from someone in their early 20's. I didn't show her much love, but I did love her and always remained committed and dedicated to her.

Eventually, I matured and realized that she WAS the love of my life, and that I was ready to have an adult and mature marriage. By this time, her focus had drifted a little, which she warned me would happen, due to my lack of attention. I tried hard, doing all the things she would always ask me to do, but she never felt it geniune.

So basically, after our first R, I fell deep in love with her, because I was finally ready and mature enough to do so. I wanted to be the man who loved his wife and would surprise her with little gifts just cause I was thinking of her. To go on dates cause I wanted to spend quality time together.

When she left, it was literally at the worst time because of how in love with her I was, and because of this, I was shell shocked. So I did what I needed to do, and cut her emotionally out of my life.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> I'll try to explain my reasoning.
> 
> My wife and I were high school sweethearts and she got pregnant when we were 19. At 22 I finished school and we got married. I married her cause I loved her, but in honesty, a lot of it had to do with "doing the right thing". I got married cause I wanted to, but I know now I wasn't ready.
> 
> ...


You always have to do what you need to do to protect yourself. There is no exception, aside from children, they should come first.

I was really in love with my STBXW after she left, having only just married her. We're now nearing the point where we will have been separated longer than married. That's a weird thought.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

It's interesting FC, what you're describing sounds more like what I've heard with women and love. Once they're emotionally detached, it's hard if not impossible for that to be rekindled. 

Does the corollary of that mean that men can fall into love easily? I don't think so. 

What you're describing is likely a defense mechanism based on how she hurt you and the resulting lack of trust. How can you love someone who could do something so cruel, and then there is every indication she could/will do it again?


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## FC Dynamite (Sep 23, 2013)

angstire said:


> It's interesting FC, what you're describing sounds more like what I've heard with women and love. Once they're emotionally detached, it's hard if not impossible for that to be rekindled.
> 
> Does the corollary of that mean that men can fall into love easily? I don't think so.
> 
> What you're describing is likely a defense mechanism based on how she hurt you and the resulting lack of trust. How can you love someone who could do something so cruel, and then there is every indication she could/will do it again?


I think you have a point. I really do think it's a defense mechanism. That, or maybe it's not meant to be... but it's way to early to make that claim. As far as her doing it again, I really don't think she will, and if she does, I'll be way more prepared for it. I know men love to paint their wives with rose coloured glasses, but I've managed to detach enough to see her for who she truly is. Point being, she was completely lost after the affair, and had no confidence in our marriage. I really truly feel she is a changed woman.

I hate to admit it, but I think my little fling girl is in my head. I let her go awhile back, and she was incredibly understanding which helped because I didn't want to hurt her. I did get a text from her yesterday that read:

I dreamt about you. We lived closer and we would spend all our free time together having sex, flirting and cuddling. I woke up and said wtf lol. Hope everything is well.

I ignored the text, didn't write her back, but I do miss her. I miss the conversations. Although things got a bit physical, there was no intimacy between us. Yet, I know I can't continue with that relationship even on a plutonic level without jeopardizing R with my wife, so I just suck it up, and learn to live with the fact that the things I miss in her are things I can eventually get from my wife.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

angstire said:


> It's interesting FC, what you're describing sounds more like what I've heard with women and love. Once they're emotionally detached, it's hard if not impossible for that to be rekindled.
> 
> Does the corollary of that mean that men can fall into love easily? I don't think so.
> 
> What you're describing is likely a defense mechanism based on how she hurt you and the resulting lack of trust. How can you love someone who could do something so cruel, and then there is every indication she could/will do it again?


An additional thought on this: it's easier to start with the greenfield of a new relationship than to patch the hurt and learn to trust someone who has hurt you. 

The brain will try and defend you from this hurt happening again and if something has happened once, your brain will know that it is more likely than not to happen again. It would take a lot of effort to truly feel safe and trusting with someone who hurt you so badly; your brain will try very hard to keep you away from that pain. At least, until there is growth of trust and a solid history of safe behavior.

A new relationship offers only hope and opportunity, because there are no wounds there to resolve, rationalize, etc.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

FC Dynamite said:


> I ignored the text, didn't write her back, but I do miss her. I miss the conversations. Although things got a bit physical, there was no intimacy between us. Yet, I know I can't continue with that relationship even on a plutonic level without jeopardizing R with my wife, so I just suck it up, and learn to live with the fact that the things I miss in her are things I can eventually get from my wife.


And that's an excellent way to focus on you want and be fair to all parties. Be all in or all out. It takes a while to decide which we want, but once you get there, do it. Since you're trying the path to R, being all in, without fling girl is good. If it doesn't work, fling girl may still be interested. If not, lots of women out there and some will be your brand of mischief.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hi FC,

Sounds like your doing pretty well all things considered.


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