# Please Solve this Debate



## Mindful Coach (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi All,

I am curious about your opinions to a debate that is going on. I'll give you the scenario, the two sides and please tell me what your thoughts are about it.

A person outside of the marriage has caused problems within the marriage including hitting on the wife when drunk, refusing to apologize for that, disrespecting her with words, calling her a puppet master, telling the husband he's whipped, etc....

Obviously this is unacceptable behavior to the wife, the husband is torn because it's his brother. But he agrees the behavior is not appropriate. He made attempts to garner an apology and have his brother stop talking poorly about his wife, but the brother insists it is she who needs to apologize. After this, the husband assures the wife "I will not pursue hanging out with him, I will talk to him via phone/email/text from time to time, but that's it."

Now husband wants to go to a concert with this person that has just told him he has no balls and will lend him his pair. 

Husband thinks going to a concert together is not "hanging out" and therefore he is not breaking his promise to his wife. He further tells her since "hanging out" wasn't fully defined, that it is just fine for him to do this and he is mad at her for having a problem with it and thinks she is being irrational.

Wife is upset because she went through years of feeling bullied by this person and sees he is still disrespecting the her and her marriage. She feels betrayed that what was told to her by her husband, in her opinion, is not being honored. For her, going to a concert is definitely "hanging out".

What's your take? Would you side with the husband, wife or neither? What defines "hanging out" to you? Any other suggestions you can offer to help them get this worked out?

I would appreciate hearing from both husband and wives.

Thanks.


----------



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Husband has no balls and should defend his wife against the brother otherwise he will lose all respect from the wife!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Husband has no balls and should defend his wife against the brother otherwise he will lose all respect from the wife!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup :iagree:

Why is there even a debate?


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm wondering why your husband wants to have contact with another man who has hit on his wife. Although I understand it is his brother, but still that's crossing the line. Your husband obviously lacks self-respect. Your BIL has identified the problem and now you are describing those attributes as they relate to his relationship with his brother.

With your BIL causing problems within your marriage, your husband needs to limit his contact with his brother. That means no concerts with him.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

The husband and the wife did NOT come to an acceptable agreement on how to deal with boundaryless bullying brother. If he should be cut off indefinitely or how/when/where acceptable contact may be engaged in with the husband. They are at an impasse...it's not settled... or wife would not still be feeling like this>> 


> *Mindful Coach said:* Wife is upset because she went through years of feeling bullied by this person and sees he is still disrespecting the her and her marriage. She feels betrayed that what was told to her by her husband, in her opinion, is not being honored. For her, going to a concert is definitely "hanging out".


WIFE fears >>>

Brother will weasel himself back into their marriage -with boundaries such as these...because husband is being "limp wristed" with his Ball crushing brother. And given the past, I can understand why she feels this way. 

They need to further sit down and work out some compromise they are both comfortable with.. ultimately our spouses feelings & the marriage coming first. 

If the brother gives that much of a da**, he will change his ways and work to earn his brother's respect back...over time.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Husband is out of line.

Husband is disrespecting his wife.

Brother-in-law is disrespecting both of them.

"Wife is upset because she went through years of feeling bullied by this person and sees he is still disrespecting the her and her marriage. She feels betrayed that what was told to her by her husband, in her opinion, is not being honored."

If you have used these words to your husband, rather than just thinking this way, and he still wants to go to the concert, you have bigger problems in your marriage that just your brother-in-law.

Marriage counseling would be a good place to start.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Once you marry, you owe your allegiance to your spouse. Not your family.

Sounds to me like the husband isn't all that different from his brother, just 'tamed' a little from being married. He has to make a choice.

You may have to make it for him: I won't stay in a marriage in which I'm disrespected and cared for less than your brother. I have better fish to fry.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

If my brother was doing that I would ask him if he would like to keep his balls. No one will disrespect my wife. Not my friends, not my family, not my children.


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I think the wife has an idiot for a husband and an idiot for a brother in law. Perhaps its not that the husband should be siding with the wife, perhaps the wife should get her head out of the clouds and see what shes living with then make a decision. Maybe she will wake up one day. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

I would side with the wife that he's wrong, but husband has the right to hang out with his own brother. They know each other longer than he knows her. Although I don't agree with this, maybe because I'm a single child, but people think that blood is thicker than water.

This is what some people think. Blood comes first then your spouse. Reason? Your spouse can divorce you any time, but your family can't. With people talking about leaving or divorcing, I'm not surprise, someone would pick his/her family over their spouse.


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

I think this is 2012, women and men are equal. Woman should not rely on a man to protect them all the time. This is what I want to suggest the wife to do, next time if the brother try anything on her, just kick his balls and slap him. Everytime. The brother probably won't want to hit on you anymore. If the husband has the right to hangout, wife has the right to kick balls.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Actually the husband should slap his brother silly and set him straight. He should not be hanging out with him and of course the concert is absurd.


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Apparently this concert with his brother is more important than his wifes feelings, I hope this speaks volumes to her.


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

turnera said:


> Once you marry, you owe your allegiance to your spouse. Not your family.
> 
> Sounds to me like the husband isn't all that different from his brother, just 'tamed' a little from being married. He has to make a choice.
> 
> You may have to make it for him: I won't stay in a marriage in which I'm disrespected and cared for less than your brother. I have better fish to fry.


so who would you fall back on if your spouse cheated/was abusive?

just saying.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

It's not okay, and the husband is too much of a wimp to stand up to his bullying brother. In his mind it's better to ask for forgiveness from his wife than permission, so he's very 'no big deal' about it.

Wives do forgive and tolerate a heck of a lot from their husbands. Including being disrespected. I don't get it, but they do. Brothers have a special bond... their relationship is one of the longest they will ever have with another human being. Hard to just cut it off... even for a wife. Even if it's obvious it's not right. The loyalty will be with the brother in most cases because of the nature of the relationship.

What's left then? The wife has to make a decision. Either accept this and realize this will be the theme in their relationship for the duration, OR stand up for herself and bail out. In my marriage I don't compete with anyone. I will NOT compete with anyone either. That's also my preogative.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

anonim said:


> so who would you fall back on if your spouse cheated/was abusive?
> 
> just saying.


 Huh? What does that have to do with what I said?


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

Well you wanted the wife to leave the husband. Doesn't that mean what the husband did was the right thing.

If the woman is so easy to divorce, why not just stick with the family that can't divorce you.

His brother is the person to fall back on, when the wife leave or cheated on him.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

scione said:


> Well you wanted the wife to leave the husband. Doesn't that mean what the husband did was the right thing.
> 
> If the woman is so easy to divorce, why not just stick with the family that can't divorce you.
> 
> His brother is the person to fall back on, when the wife leave or cheated on him.


Why get married at all then? People that feel like this IMO shouldn't get married. They don't understand what it means.

And I'm sorry but family CAN divorce you. They can cut you off just like a spouse can. It happens every day.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I wasn't telling her to leave her husband. I was telling her to *tell *her husband that she deserves better. And, ultimately, if he disagrees with her in that regard, by all means leave him because that isn't love and that's a marriage of convenience.

The key to any marriage is communication. And when she expresses pain at the hands of his brother, and he agrees but then chooses going with brother over wife's pain, the next step is to call him out on it: do you care more for your wife or for having fun with your brother?

And remember, he could have stopped all this years ago, but he chose not to.


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

If it was my brother I would show him who had balls by kicking the stuffing out of him and tell him if he ever calls my house or stops over again he better be prepared for another ass whipping. Then I would apologize to my wife that my brother is such a complete **** and then take her out to a nice dinner and take her shopping. 

Incidentally, the brother is right. He has no balls.


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

turnera said:


> And remember, he could have stopped all this years ago, but he chose not to.


:iagree:

And the above is what sticks out to me the most in this thread. He is continualy choosing to side with his brother over his his wifes feelings. He is placing more importance on his brother than his wife. Apparently he came from a family where they were all afraid of each other and to tell the other one(s) how they feel. In his mind he is probably trying to keep the peace with his brother while his wife is the one who suffers. The bad thing is, even though he has continued to operate in this manner, his wife has allowed it by not putting her foot down or possibly even just by staying.


----------



## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Would you side with the husband, wife or neither? The wife. One of BIL, who's an alcoholic, did verbally attack me once. It was while I was visiting MIL & SFIL; BIL was there with his gf of the month; Hubby was away at work. MIL said nothing to him, but SFIL told MIL off for not speaking up for me. BIL did leave a message apologizing on our answering machine at home. I think it was more to protect himself from H response when he found out. H told him and the rest of his family - if you don't like/accept my wife, then you don't like/accept me either. That's how we both feel. BIL has since apologized to me & H. H does occasionally talk to BIL when he calls in one of his drunken stupors. 

What defines "hanging out" to you? Any activity that involves interaction between two or more: phone calls, concerts, movies, hobbies, dinner, etc., etc. To me hanging out is a term for spending time someone. 

In the situation you've described, I believe the H should take a stand for his W that includes a 'No Tolerance Policy' of disrespectful behavior towards her from ANYONE in his family. If they can't do that, then there's no relationship period!!! End of story!


----------



## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

Total slap in the face for the wife. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Jamison said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the above is what sticks out to me the most in this thread. He is continualy choosing to side with his brother over his his wifes feelings. He is placing more importance on his brother than his wife. Apparently he came from a family where they were all afraid of each other and to tell the other one(s) how they feel. In his mind he is probably trying to keep the peace with his brother while his wife is the one who suffers. The bad thing is, even though he has continued to operate in this manner, his wife has allowed it by not putting her foot down or possibly even just by staying.


So many times, my mother wanted us children to keep the peace. Don't make waves. Just let it go. 

At some point, you don't even realize you are doing it any more. Husband needs help to see what he is doing and why it is wrong. You have a choice to make. Is it worth staying and working on it with him?


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Why get married at all then? People that feel like this IMO shouldn't get married. They don't understand what it means.
> 
> And I'm sorry but family CAN divorce you. They can cut you off just like a spouse can. It happens every day.


Are you saying you can be married to your family? That is gross. I think we call that incest.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

scione said:


> Are you saying you can be married to your family? That is gross.


Is this a serious question or are you being obtuse on purpose?


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Mindful Coach said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am curious about your opinions to a debate that is going on. I'll give you the scenario, the two sides and please tell me what your thoughts are about it.
> 
> ...


The wife obvisouly the husband has no balls


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I see a two parter here.

1. Husband is definitely in the wrong. If my brother hit on my wife. I'd "HIT" on my brother, probably breaking his nose or blackening his eye. If my brother continued to disrespect my wife, and also ME, we wouldn't have a relationship.

2. Usually when a man says to another man repeatedly about "where are your balls" it's because the wife and husband have some bad dynamics in the marriage where the wife is henpecking him. Based on some subtle tones in the description of this story, I would assess that it's there. In that way, the Husband has a right to stand up to his wife and take "his balls back". The husband may feel that this is a real situation and fight against this dynamic, but in the wrong ways and over the wrong issues.

So I would say there's no "winner" here.
1. The husband is wrong for putting his allegiances into the wrong camp, BUT
2. He's doing it because the wife isn't exactly giving the husband respect either. Respect is a 2 way street. If the wife wants the husband to respect her, she needs to respect him.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I see a two parter here.
> 
> 1. Husband is definitely in the wrong. If my brother hit on my wife. I'd "HIT" on my brother, probably breaking his nose or blackening his eye. If my brother continued to disrespect my wife, and also ME, we wouldn't have a relationship.
> 
> ...


This may be the case or the brother says this to get the husband to do other stupid non-marrige friendly crap. I could speculate what that is but you get my drift. My money is on this. The brother does not respect the whole failthful marriage thing. So he is doing whatever he can to undermine it.


----------



## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

The brother is does not respect the whole failthful marriage thing. So he is doing whatever he can to undermine it. 

So true! Sometimes the disrespect comes from being envious that they don't have one; ruined their own. What's the saying: Misery loves company? If they're miserable, everyone else should be too!!


----------



## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

I wonder how much the H loves his wife, to allow his brother to continue to do this.


----------



## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I think all involved have a hand in the situation and the way it is. 

The brother for acting the way he is. 
The husband for not sticking up for his wife. 
The wife for allowing this to continue on. 

Obviously this is not the first time this kind of thing has happened if the husband has had chances before to side with his wife and he has chosen not to. 

I think he has his priorities mixed up. His wife and her feelings should come before his brothers. The wife needs to figure out why she keeps allowing her husband to disrespect her and the marriage as a whole.


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

Maybe when the husband went out with his brother, he was actually trying to have an alone time to talk. Like "You better back off from my wife or I'll f*** u up." And he didn't want any witness that can incriminate him. Would that still be not ok to do?

We don't know the other side of the story. That's all I'm sayin.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

The husband is a wimp in general and has allowed his brother to disrespect his wife for years. He is unable to stand up to the brother and it's probably always been that way. The wife is right to be upset about the concert but has unrealistic expectations that her husband will suddenly gain some balls. Any man worth his salt would have cut the brother off the first time he insulted or bullied his wife. The brother is fighting for control over her husband and sees her as threat to his control. The concert is another way to show he has control.


----------



## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

Yes give the husband a gun and shoot that POS brother. That'll show who has the balls.

Why is it that, if he beats his brother, we would say he has balls and not a wimp; but if he beats his wife for talking sh*t about his brother, we call that abusive?


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Sounds like your H made an empty promise to you in hopes that things would blow over.....the coward's way.BIL is totally disrespectful to you,your H and your marriage....hold him to his word.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If the husband dislikes sex with his wife, then he should go to the concert with his brother.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

scione said:


> Yes give the husband a gun and shoot that POS brother. That'll show who has the balls.
> 
> Why is it that, if he beats his brother, we would say he has balls and not a wimp; but if he beats his wife for talking sh*t about his brother, we call that abusive?


I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. A man doesn't have to shoot or beat someone up to have balls. The husband can take a stand and make the brother go away if he really cared about his wife. The husband chooses to interact with the brother after he has shown a pattern of disrespect for his wife. That is completely spineless.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scione said:


> Maybe when the husband went out with his brother, he was actually trying to have an alone time to talk. Like "You better back off from my wife or I'll f*** u up." And he didn't want any witness that can incriminate him. Would that still be not ok to do?
> 
> We don't know the other side of the story. That's all I'm sayin.


 Yeah, cos a concert is an AWESOME place to have an intimate alone-time talk. 

*snort*

But seriously, you're right, we don't know his side. I'll just say I've seen way too many marriages implode because one or the other is still tied at the hip to their family, can't/won't stand up to them, and it comes between the couple.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scione said:


> Yes give the husband a gun and shoot that POS brother. That'll show who has the balls.
> 
> Why is it that, if he beats his brother, we would say he has balls and not a wimp; but if he beats his wife for talking sh*t about his brother, we call that abusive?


Because brothers grow up beating the sh*t out of each other and it would be nothing new or looked at askance. That's how some brothers settle issues.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hicks said:


> If the husband dislikes sex with his wife, then he should go to the concert with his brother.


 Hopefully the OP is strong enough to do something like this. Well, if she does this, she needs to be sure she explains WHY he's not getting any.


----------



## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

scione said:


> Maybe when the husband went out with his brother, he was actually trying to have an alone time to talk. Like "You better back off from my wife or I'll f*** u up." And he didn't want any witness that can incriminate him. Would that still be not ok to do?
> 
> We don't know the other side of the story. That's all I'm sayin.


Now there some total B.S. right there. No its not OK. Its so effing silly I cant even take it seriously. :lol::rofl::scratchhead:


----------



## Mindful Coach (Sep 15, 2011)

Thank you all for your great answers. The couple is still at logger heads. The husband and wife have different ideas of "hanging out" - for example, since its a concert with a lot going on, it isn't "alone time hanging out, like at his house" - or one on one. The wife thinks hanging out is any type of communication. She is okay with the occasional phone call, but that's as far as she is comfortable with. The husband says "hanging out" to him means spending alone time with the brother. Where do you think they should find common ground. How or why?


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Wow. There is so much wrong in this marriage. Why didn't they know that their foundations for living were different? Who was it that misrepresented themselves just to keep the relationship? They must have grown up totally differently.

Reads to me like the husband here is the younger brother. If that is true, it will probably be difficult for him to do anything for himself. I get the feeling he is much younger and maybe there was no father and/or the father was not a leader in that household?

In my opinion, middle ground would be attending family gatherings, but limiting the amount of time spent at such. Going to events where the family will be and again, limiting time together.

He will need to address his issues with family boundaries and what is truly important in his life. He is going to lose her. They are very different people and if she is not seeing someone, she will be. He will be so naive that he will not believe it, even if he sees it with his own eyes. He will be devastated. 

I do not believe this will end well. It would be wonderful if it does. I hope you can help them.

Edit: Lot's of folks on here are suggesting he break away from his support group(family). If he does that and his wife is already cheating on him or does so in the near future, he is going to be devastated. They need serious help to get through this. Well, it seems he does. He's just oblivious to how she thinks. I just answered a question from above.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> If my brother was doing that I would ask him if he would like to keep his balls. No one will disrespect my wife. Not my friends, not my family, not my children.


Yep... I'd have fed brother's ball to himself.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Yep... I'd have fed brother's ball to himself.


And if he were my little brother and came after me trying to inflict harm, I'd beat the livin' piss out of him and call an ambulance. Don't matter whether he is right or wrong, but who can kick who's butt. That may not work out so well. Physical is not the way to go unless you are physically attacked and defending yourself.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Well if its a Justin Beiber concert...don't worry neither has balls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Mindful Coach said:


> Thank you all for your great answers. The couple is still at logger heads. The husband and wife have different ideas of "hanging out" - for example, since its a concert with a lot going on, it isn't "alone time hanging out, like at his house" - or one on one. The wife thinks hanging out is any type of communication. She is okay with the occasional phone call, but that's as far as she is comfortable with. The husband says "hanging out" to him means spending alone time with the brother. Where do you think they should find common ground. How or why?


How about this. The issue is not about what each of them considers "hanging out," it is about one person hurting the other when they know they are inflicting the pain. The husband knows that contact with this guy is bothering his wife. He knows why and the reason is extremely valid. Yet he continues to debate about the semantics of the phrase "hanging out." What is this husband going to say when his wife starts going out with an ex bf to "hang out?" A friend is only a friend if they are a friend to the marriage. Any person who is not a friend of the marriage is an enemy of the marriage and needs to be cut out like a cancer.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Well if its a Justin Beiber concert...don't worry neither has balls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you think you are right in getting physical for any reason other than _protecting_ yourself, your wife or your family, you are mistaken.

He can show his wife he cares about her by _telling_ his brother, family or whoever what he thinks, then acting upon those words without getting into a childish display of violence.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

By going to a concert, or anything else for that matter, with someone who has hit on his wife, disrespected and caused trouble in his marriage and refuses to apologize, the H is effectively giving his brother permission to continue with the same sort of behaviour.


----------

