# Any 180 success stories????



## reallyover?

My wife of 10+ years told me this weekend she wants a divorce. I had the typical distraught, whiney, emotional, generally pathetic response. I pleaded, tried to reason, talked about the kids, etc. Stonefaced response from the W. With the help of this site, I have decided to go 100% on the 180 plan. I understand that this helps re-establish my sense of self. My confidence. My positive vision of the future. I get that and it's very important. Issue is, I really want my wife to snap out of funk and try to work on our marriage. I don't want to lose my family because my wife it not rational right now.

The question is......Has anyone had legitimate success in saving their marriage by using the 180 approach????


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## anx

It is possible. Amplextor fixed his marriage, but it takes a lot more than the 180 and a lot of time, 1 - 2 years.
A few of us are close or have repaired our marriages but its very hard work.
Your wife has a lot more than a funk. It's probably years or intense hurt.

Best of luck and God bless
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Yes, but I was always neglectful so doing a 180 was more about my own adabtation of it.
I confronted my wife as business as usual and it was a matter of fact....what she wanted and her perception of ...well me not caring.

I mean it was so emotionaless (if thats a term) even though I really cared I gave my cheating wife a non emotional response to her admission that it made her second guess her response to my response.

Its wierd but I found that with little emotion from me, my wife wasn't sure on what to expect. It wasn't about me it was more on what she wanted. 
If she felt confused well then I wasn't going to beg or plead....I just had the additude were I wanted a dicision from her right then and there. I mean I showed this " I don't give a f*ck" perseption were her next words out of her mouth were going to keep me around or not.
I believe she thought I would have bailed if she didn't make the commitment right then and there. It was all about empowerment, when she saw that she had none, it was out of self preservation that she made a choice right there " him or me " 

Granted I did my investigation and research and it was my nkowledge that this was the best way to handle it...see several weeks earlier I had gone down that road of self pity and when I approached her cheating in a .."weak way" I saw the look in her eyes that said "now you care @ss hole". I saw this and stepped back, walked away and reapproached her with more evidence and a stronger/confident additude.

So yes a 180 in my own additude did make a difference when I confronted her and in getting her to see that things...the behaviors in my self were no longer going to tolorate her past behaviors. 

My 180 was done during the confrontation, not so much in fighting her fog. I think she was coming out of the fog when I "all most "confronted her, but when I regrouped and "manned up" my confrotation was more effective.

That is why I believe it is so important for a spouse to really make a game plan before they confront. The confrontation if done right can make all the difference in the world. Ones 180 must be implimented before the confrontation..I think it has to be done when one starts to investage or the suspicion on infidelity starts.


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## akcroy

No success stories from my end. I put up with my wife not having sex with me for four years and her selfish attitude, but was forced to put my foot down when she mistreated my parents. I pointed out all my dissatisfaction, and threatened to leave. She cried and promised she would change. She's a lot nicer since then, but people don't change overnight... and they can't change who they are. So my marriage is still in a mess. Doing the 180 didn't make me understood by my wife, apart from generating a little bit of compassion.

Summary: if people don't want to change, if they don't feel empathy, there's never any hope in such relationships.


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## MyTwoGirls

Reallyover the one thing you need to realize is she just didn't wake up and decide to tell you she wants a divorce...there is a lot of history in her thought process to come to the point of telling you to your face..it will take years to work on the issue and even then it might not be enough depending on the circumstances surrounding her decision to let you know..the truth is only YOU know what you were like in the marriage and now is the time for an honest reflection on your part as to why it has come to this point and to work on rebuilding yourself to possibly leave a life without her..maybe she will come around and maybe she won't..not trying to put a negative spin on it but more of working on your future for you..it really sucks to be in this situation especially if you do not want to split but there are many on this site who have gone or are going through the same thing..good luck and only time will heal the pain you will go through.


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## F-102

It may or may not work on her, but it will sure as hell work on you!


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## Ten_year_hubby

The 180 worked great for me (so far). About 3 1/2 months ago my w told me she didn't love me after 10 years of marriage. I went through some serious emotional upheaval for about 10 days until I decided on the 180 and completely detached from her. While I was losing weight, getting fit, feeling and looking great, she escalated our conflict and made herself more and more miserable. When she finally served me with divorce papers I took the kids on a week vacation at the shore. The day after we returned, I asked my w to meet at 7AM. Then I told her we would sell the house, she could have half of everything and we would split custody at 3 1/2 days each. She argued and complained but I said I was sure I could get this and it was a precisely equal split. She went off and thought about it for 8 hours and came back saying she wanted to work things out. And that's what we're doing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Warrior44

It's working on me.
It also is working on my wife, even though, i tend to break some of the rules at time.
It's hard sometimes not to respond.

Like yesterday, I wrote her and told her, i was walking away from us.
This morning, she sent me an email, basically still living in the past.

So, i sat down and wrote her a long, long email. I know, i shouldn't have. But felt, since i couldn't get some of the things addressed. i would adress them then.

I told her, i wasn't afraid of losing her. that I was at cross roads with her and didn't know what to do anymore.
I also took full blame for everything.
I explained some things.
but also did it to get them off my chest and plant seeds. When I've done those things in the past..she tends to wanna nibble for more, once i closed up afterwards.

This last stand was to merely tell her..i can't change the past. that we both did some things wrong, that it was toottaly up to her, if she wanted to try and work things out with me. I would not date her or try..unless she kicked her boyfriend to the curb.
I was very firm with her on that because she keeps bringing it up to me. I told her, I'm not second class material and not going to take her out so she can run home to him. if she wanted him, i was fine by that. I wasn't going to be in an open relationship.

Yes, it's working the hell out of me. I feel much better, more confident about myself. Plus it tends to get her to notice me as well. But she is still in the fog and scared.
That's fine..she can be foggy all she wants and scared.
I'm not going to be scared anymore.
As I told her, I have A LOT of passion built up inside me on life. That I want to experience new things, go places. But if she didn't want me to do those things with anyone else. She better get off her ass..lol

Yes, it's hard. but the more and more..I put total effort into the 180, the more and more..she notices and comes out kicking and screaming for attention.

It's a matter of time.
Right now, she see's me an an arrigant pr*ck. Full of confidence and balls big enough to fit in the back of any truck.
She's also notices how, I've lost about 40 lbs in the last 3-4 months from working out alone. that my muscles are starting to chisel and she has gained (No lie) what I have lost.
So, that's a sgn of her not being happy.

Time and patience are two things that are tough for us to deal with.
But yes, the 180 works.
I also recommend "Manning Up" and No More, Mr. Nice Guy.

With the combo of those 3 things.
You'll reclaim your man card back in no time.


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## bellringer

I didnt know anything about the 180 when I did it, my husband called me one day and said he wanted a divorce, i was sad but never asked him to come back. my son said after a week of me being sad that i havent cooked a nice dinner in a while(he was used to family dinners) that was all it took i was at the market that day and we had a nice dinner. I had to move on for him, I had a child that needed a mother that wasnt always depressed and neglecting him by chasing someone that didnt want to be here. we also too off on a disney vacation. we did the things we always did. summers we were always out as i was a stay at home mom and could spend time with him. so we lived our lives the way we would have without my husband. 


I was actually liking the independence, as husband was always the controlling one. he seen i didnt need him anymore, we were doing fine without him. I had friends we went out when husband took son for his nights. I was having fun and he seen that. I may have wanted him I didnt need him to survive. It was a yr and a half we were literally 1 week away from the final papers to be signed when he came back. were doing great now, its nice now that i have control.


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## muppetsinspace

You know, the funny thing to me about the 180 is that it's more about taking control of your life, rather than taking control of the destiny of the marriage. Someone I knew asked me, "so, you're going to do this 180 thing? You think that'll get her back on board with you?"
I said, "getting her back on board with me is only going to happen if she wants it to happen. I'm doing the 180 for me."

So I'm doing this for me. No more doting on her. No more coddling her. No more hanging on her every word. I'm making myself my own person.

And hopefully, in doing that, I'll be more desirable, and she'll remember why she wanted me in the first place. But to me it's not the goal. It's a bonus.


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## kgregory1011

muppetsinspace said:


> So I'm doing this for me. No more doting on her. No more coddling her. No more hanging on her every word. I'm making myself my own person.
> 
> And hopefully, in doing that, I'll be more desirable, and she'll remember why she wanted me in the first place. But to me it's not the goal. It's a bonus.


Big kudos to you!!  
I was in the same boat!!


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## dawgfan

Thanks for sharing your stories. I saw a resource about a couple who faced many affairs, stuck it out, and repaired their marriage. Thought you all might be interested. It's a book called Unfaithful.

Dawgfan


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## JRiZZY

What is the "180" ??


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## pacmouse

The 180 worked for me. I am one year out from D day. I was put through h*ll for a year. When I found the undeniable proof, I did the 180. Including a full exposure to the OW's H and my H's family. I changed the locks on the door, got a kitten for my kids who were hurting, (he's allergic to cats)I got a lawyer and filed for divorce and FULL custody of our two kids. I started saving evidence and became VERY cold toward him. I also worked with the OW's H and sent him ALL the proof which created a sh*t storm on her end. My H ended up with a huge reality slap and realized what he was about to lose. He and the OW started throwing each other under the bus and he began to see what kind of person she was. (Very long story)

It has been a VERY long year of hard work and counseling for us as a couple and individually, but we are doing very well. He is truly remorseful and has been doing everything he should be doing. ie, full transparency, etc. I can honestly say that I ALMOST see the man I married again. I say 'almost' because it takes time to recover. He from his guilt and self-loathing and me for trusting him.

Looking back, I think the 180 worked for me because I was COMPLETELY okay with divorcing him. Don't get me wrong, I was sad and didn't want a divorce, but also knew that there was no way I was going to allow myself to be a victim either. I was going to do EVERYTHING I could to make sure I was able to take care of my kids and let people know if this marriage was going to be over, it was his actions that caused it. 

My advice... Look at doing the 180 as a way to better yourself, show your strength, power and self-worth. Be okay if it doesn't lead to an R. Do it for YOU!! If it leads to an R, GREAT! But, if it doesn't, you have done everything you need to in order to take care of YOURSELF!!!

Be strong and good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YupItsMe

Yeah I did a 180 and saved my 11 year marriage 2 years ago.


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## somuchinlove

I have decided to take the 180 approach and didn't even know it until I saw all these post. My H told me a week ago that he didn't think he was in love with me anymore. On Friday, he told me he wanted to split up. He doesn't want to try and solve our issues. He wants to make a decision on his own. I realized today that I can't wait for him to decide what to do with my life. I depend on him for everything so being alone scares me...alot. But i have a 12 year old daughter that I can't let down and that is my focus now. No more playing into my H's hands. If he wants to split up, I won;t fight him anymore. I am going to go out and start living because that is what I need to do for myself.


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## Again71

Where do I find out info on doing a 180? I need specifics.

Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevrazz

Is this forum the primary source for the 180 or is there a better forum to get more info on the 180? Been trying to find it with no luck.


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## Meatpuppet

The 180 is basically exactly what is says...it's a 180 for your attitude. 

Instead of being needy, you become independent
Instead of stalking/calling constantly, you leave them in the dark
Instead of languishing on the couch bemoaning your pitiful existence, you take care of yourself and have fun

EVEN IF ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE THE ABSOLUTE LAST THINGS YOU WANT TO DO! (given your situation ) 

Keep in mind that all of these things are done for _your benefit_; they're not intended to win your significant other back. However, the sudden change in your demeanor might make them curious and be the impetus for R. 

Also, _dont deviate from the plan_...it's like a diet for your emotions! Stick to it or it won't work!

Here's a link, I got it from Elegirl's sig, so thank her :smthumbup:

http://http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180

Good luck and stay strong.


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## Kevinb

Ten_year_hubby said:


> The 180 worked great for me (so far). About 3 1/2 months ago my w told me she didn't love me after 10 years of marriage. I went through some serious emotional upheaval for about 10 days until I decided on the 180 and completely detached from her. While I was losing weight, getting fit, feeling and looking great, she escalated our conflict and made herself more and more miserable. When she finally served me with divorce papers I took the kids on a week vacation at the shore. The day after we returned, I asked my w to meet at 7AM. Then I told her we would sell the house, she could have half of everything and we would split custody at 3 1/2 days each. She argued and complained but I said I was sure I could get this and it was a precisely equal split. She went off and thought about it for 8 hours and came back saying she wanted to work things out. And that's what we're doing
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


how is it going now?


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## jadams14

Hello everybody this is my first time in dealing with anything like this in our 16 years of marriage. I came home from Iraq in the beginning of May at which time I did not have any idea what was going on. We went to Cozumel for ten days in order to spend our anniversary together. While we were there she recieved a skype call from a guy that she had told me that he was only a friend. So I did not think anything about this because she had never cheated on me before this. 
Well after we got back from vacation I left and went to see my family without her because she had to go back to work so I thought and at this time I was suppose to go back to Iraq Memorial Day weekend. So I was going to come back from my parents house on Thursday so we could spend the last couple of days together before I left. But on Tuesday I found out that I did not have the paperwork to go back so I am still here. Well every since Memorial day we have been arguing over one thing or another because I was asking her if she would be able to work this out. She kept telling me that she did not know if she could. 

Well last Friday I did find out that there was another guy involved and we had another argument about him. I told her that if she wanted to try to make our marriage work she needed to stop all communications with him. I also told her that I was going to quit my job in Iraq so I could stay here to work on our marriage even after all this. She did not stop talking to him. I was still willing to not give up on us but all we have been doing since I found out about is argue. She will not come out and tell me if she wants to be with him or me. 

She told me that is was over when we were in such a heated argument that even involved her parents. Because I spoke to her parents and she believes that I turned her whole family against her. They are not happy with her because of the situation. 

So I finally realized that I can not stay with her in the same house right now so we have our camper on a camp grounds so I packed up to stay there for the next week because I have to go to Virigina next wednesday and Thursday. I also went and opened my own bank account so I can put my paycheck into that account. I did this to keep her from taking my money and buying that guy and his three kids things. I am also going to tell her that she will need to pay her car payment, part of the insurance and phone bill or get her own.


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## This is me

Sorry this is happening to you. I found out a year ago in Feb that my W wanted to divorce. 17 year marriage and this came out of left field. I did many wrong things at first, but then learned about the 180. The first time I told her I saw our marriage was troubled and I agreed if she wanted to D, then we should do it. She broke down and asked if I was checking out. Went to MC, worked on it for a year. She even seperated in a heated moment which lasted 4 months. I 180 the best I could, but she agreed to MC and eventually came home.

She knew I never wanted to end it, but I had a limit to the limboland of seperation. We are much better now and wedding bands are back on, intimacy is back, even a trip away.

What do you want? If you want the marriage to be saved, then my advice is to read Divorce Busting. Helped me understand the Mid Life Crisis and Walk Away Wife. The built up resentment and thoughts of aging can send them into a fog. It can lift, but patience is critical.

I wish you well!


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## jadams14

I am not willing to give up on what we have had in the last 17 years we have been together but she is not wanting to leave the other guy yet. He has her head filled full of s**t and believing that I do not love her. I have started the 180 and the first thing I did was open my own bank account to make her to have try and stand on her own two feet in order to see can figure out what she is about to lose. I moved out and am currently living in our camper until I go back to Iraq for the last two months of my contract. I talked to her sister and she has even shut her out of her life for that last two to three months. Before that she was always with her sister or calling her that has stopped. She said the other yesterday that I turned her family against her and she told her mother that she was her best friend. Her mom told her if she was her best friend why did she not come to her to talk about what was going on.

Thanks for that first link very nice I am going to share it.


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## Matt1720

Sounds like you are enforcing some real life, slap-her-in-the-face consequences for her actions. :smthumbup:

are you not willing to give up the person she is now, or the person you thought she was these past 17 years? If your perception has changed in this regard (viewing her as she is now), I think you're doing the right thing for yourself. Don't minimize the fact that this was HER choice (and not just him preying on an innocent woman).


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## jadams14

Matt1720 said:


> Sounds like you are enforcing some real life, slap-her-in-the-face consequences for her actions. :smthumbup:
> 
> are you not willing to give up the person she is now, or the person you thought she was these past 17 years? If your perception has changed in this regard (viewing her as she is now), I think you're doing the right thing for yourself. Don't minimize the fact that this was HER choice (and not just him preying on an innocent woman).


I am not willing to give up on her even though she is constantly trying to pick a fight every time we talk. I know that the person who is trying to start a fight every time we are together is her I believe it is coming from him because everytime we argue he either tell her that it is all my fault or if we are fight about something on facebook he will privatize his page then delete everything that leads to him and her being together because he is trying to keep it a secret but it is to late for that.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

I was amrried 24 years, I took up the 180 from BD almost a year ago, she left three days later and I've been almost totally NC since then....it hasn't made a bit of difference as far as my marriage goes, she's still gone. It has helped me though get through this and rebuild myself.


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## Thruhellandback

muppetsinspace said:


> You know, the funny thing to me about the 180 is that it's more about taking control of your life, rather than taking control of the destiny of the marriage. Someone I knew asked me, "so, you're going to do this 180 thing? You think that'll get her back on board with you?"
> I said, "getting her back on board with me is only going to happen if she wants it to happen. I'm doing the 180 for me."
> 
> So I'm doing this for me. No more doting on her. No more coddling her. No more hanging on her every word. I'm making myself my own person.
> 
> And hopefully, in doing that, I'll be more desirable, and she'll remember why she wanted me in the first place. But to me it's not the goal. It's a bonus.


There's a lot here that resonates for me. When I became stronger and clearer about my needs and stopped thinking that I could fix things....We started to reconnect. Not romantically at first but on a basic human/friendship respect level. Then came the possibility of seeing the other romantically. It was tough because he needed lots of time and compassion for the sh%t storm of emotions he had to sort through because of my affair but we made it. 
Now our relationship is stronger, more honest, no more biting the inside of the cheek because it's just toomuch work to talk things through....it's harder, more work but much more real. I'm so grateful to have been afforded a chance to find him again. and I am very fortunate that he has been able to overcome the feelings of betrayal and reconnect with me. We both wanted to come together again very badly and both left our egos at the door to do so. Reconciling takes compassion for each other's pain, understanding for each other's needs, and humility to accept our share of the road that lead to the dysfunction in the first place.


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## jadams14

Thruhellandback said:


> There's a lot here that resonates for me. When I became stronger and clearer about my needs and stopped thinking that I could fix things....We started to reconnect. Not romantically at first but on a basic human/friendship respect level. Then came the possibility of seeing the other romantically. It was tough because he needed lots of time and compassion for the sh%t storm of emotions he had to sort through because of my affair but we made it.
> Now our relationship is stronger, more honest, no more biting the inside of the cheek because it's just toomuch work to talk things through....it's harder, more work but much more real. I'm so grateful to have been afforded a chance to find him again. and I am very fortunate that he has been able to overcome the feelings of betrayal and reconnect with me. We both wanted to come together again very badly and both left our egos at the door to do so. Reconciling takes compassion for each other's pain, understanding for each other's needs, and humility to accept our share of the road that lead to the dysfunction in the first place.


The latest thing that I have is moved out of the house and she has reached out to me on several times in the last couple of days and we have been able to talk without arguing. I know that she is still talking to him but I think that after her talk with her father she starting to think about what she doing. I also believe that she has talked a female friend of hers who went through the same thing with her ex husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Define "success". The purpose of the 180 is to prepare YOU for moving on with or without your spouse. Not to get your spouse to recognize the errors in their way and come running back to you.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## This is me

PBear said:


> Define "success". The purpose of the 180 is to prepare YOU for moving on with or without your spouse. Not to get your spouse to recognize the errors in their way and come running back to you.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Although it can be the result of the positive changes from the 180.


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## bandit.45

Thruhellandback said:


> There's a lot here that resonates for me. When I became stronger and clearer about my needs and stopped thinking that I could fix things....We started to reconnect. Not romantically at first but on a basic human/friendship respect level. Then came the possibility of seeing the other romantically. It was tough because he needed lots of time and compassion for the sh%t storm of emotions he had to sort through because of my affair but we made it.
> Now our relationship is stronger, more honest, no more biting the inside of the cheek because it's just toomuch work to talk things through....it's harder, more work but much more real. I'm so grateful to have been afforded a chance to find him again. and I am very fortunate that he has been able to overcome the feelings of betrayal and reconnect with me. We both wanted to come together again very badly and both left our egos at the door to do so. Reconciling takes compassion for each other's pain, understanding for each other's needs, and humility to accept our share of the road that lead to the dysfunction in the first place.


So, he did the 180 on you?


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## PBear

FWIW, my STBXW has pulled an almost perfect 180 on me, after I initiated our separation. It hasn't made me want to go back to her in the last 17 months. In fact, if anything it's made things easier on me, because there hasn't been any emotional dramas. 

I don't believe my wife is doing the 180 "knowingly"; it's just how things have evolved. And I really do hope it's working well for her as well, as I have no animosity towards her.all I'm saying is not to count on it to make a difference in your spouse's reactions. I would hazard a guess that's it's especially non-effective if your spouse is an independent person, and if they've got someone else to fill their emotional needs.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I didn't do a real 180 because I kicked her out on DDay. But I did go completely dark and that helped me disconnect. I followed the self improvement parts of the 180, lost weight, looked to my own needs and that helped me tremendously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## allthegoodnamesaregone

bandit.45 said:


> I didn't do a real 180 because I kicked her out on DDay. But I did go completely dark and that helped me disconnect. I followed the self improvement parts of the 180, lost weight, looked to my own needs and that helped me tremendously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree, going dark is about the best thing you can do, then hit the gym and have a look at all the activities you used to love, but dropped for whatever reason after your marriage. It's worked great for me. 

It hasn't done anything to resolve whatever her issues were with me, but as you heal you get to the point you really don't give a Sh*t anymore, especially if you meet someone else like your Gym manager Bandit ;~)


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## bandit.45

Yeah. One thing the 180 does is it focuses your mind and helps you look at things more objectively. It helps you detach from the emotions of the moment, step back and see the big picture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadsoul101

Could someone please post the link/article to the 180? Thank You!


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## Drover

reallyover? said:


> My wife of 10+ years told me this weekend she wants a divorce. I had the typical distraught, whiney, emotional, generally pathetic response. I pleaded, tried to reason, talked about the kids, etc. Stonefaced response from the W. With the help of this site, I have decided to go 100% on the 180 plan. I understand that this helps re-establish my sense of self. My confidence. My positive vision of the future. I get that and it's very important. Issue is, I really want my wife to snap out of funk and try to work on our marriage. I don't want to lose my family because my wife it not rational right now.
> 
> The question is......Has anyone had legitimate success in saving their marriage by using the 180 approach????


How is she being irrational?


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## lulubelle

what are the problems in your relationship? does she feel neglected or unloved? if that's the case, 180 will not help! if reccomend you read the 5 languages of love. that may help you figure out what type of love she needs. maybe try giving her space and fixing yourself, but also perform random acts of kindness. write down a list of all the things you love and apprieciate about her and put it on her drivers seat of her car. do things you know will make her happy a few times a week with no expectation of anything in return.


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## acm

I believe I did the 180 without ever having read it. When I found out my H of 16 years was having an affair with a woman he worked with it hit me like a ton of bricks!!! I fell apart for about 2 weeks. I immediately asked him to leave so I could have some time to absorb this whole thing and I was barely functional for the first 2 weeks but then I took a good look at what it was doing to my children and decided to make a life for us regardless of what was to come of my marriage. I had very little contact with my H and I focused solely on me and my children. I lost 40 pounds ( looked better than I had in 10 years), moved to a new home much nicer than the one we lived in, grew my business to a new level that made it possible to support myself and the children on my own and most of all acted extremely confident when he came around to see the children. I did none of this for his benefit - I did it all for ME!!! We lived apart for 9 months. We have since R and allthough after 18 months i'm still not sure we will ever be the same I have to say I am a much more confident, self sufficient woman. I know this isn't necessarily a success story concerning the marriage but it is a success story concerning me as an individual and I think that anyone who goes through this type of situation should take the opportunity to find themselves and make the necessary changes to make yourself a better person. In the end you can't change someone else you can only better yourself


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## sadwithouthim

acm said:


> I believe I did the 180 without ever having read it. When I found out my H of 16 years was having an affair with a woman he worked with it hit me like a ton of bricks!!! I fell apart for about 2 weeks. I immediately asked him to leave so I could have some time to absorb this whole thing and I was barely functional for the first 2 weeks but then I took a good look at what it was doing to my children and decided to make a life for us regardless of what was to come of my marriage. I had very little contact with my H and I focused solely on me and my children. I lost 40 pounds ( looked better than I had in 10 years), moved to a new home much nicer than the one we lived in, grew my business to a new level that made it possible to support myself and the children on my own and most of all acted extremely confident when he came around to see the children. I did none of this for his benefit - I did it all for ME!!! We lived apart for 9 months. We have since R and allthough after 18 months i'm still not sure we will ever be the same I have to say I am a much more confident, self sufficient woman. I know this isn't necessarily a success story concerning the marriage but it is a success story concerning me as an individual and I think that anyone who goes through this type of situation should take the opportunity to find themselves and make the necessary changes to make yourself a better person. In the end you can't change someone else you can only better yourself


I like what you choose to do for yourself. :smthumbup:


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## lulubelle

180 has helped me alot. i found the strong independant person i used to be. nc also helped me alot. it had been so long since i put myself first! when i first started this, i was doing it to win him back, but after a little while i realized i was doing it for me. i don't want to "win" anybody. i want to love and respect myself and if in that process we R, then awesome. if not, his loss.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

The 180 plan seems like a way to put a sudden hindrance to "sabotage behavior" within the marriage. 

This kind of emotionalism works against efforts to come to resolution and understanding within the marriage. It is a tactic used to bring dissolution "to a head" in the relationship by a dissatisfied and perhaps fed up marriage partner.

In the  "Art of War" this is described the following way: "Where local interests fight among themselves on their own territory, this is called a ground of dissolution." 

Becoming emotionally "empty" in the face of emotionally "full" attack, the _Art of War_ could be said to advice the following in which the '180 plan' may correlate:

"So in the case of those who are skilled in attack, their opponents do not know where to defend. In the case of those skilled in defense, their opponents do not know where to attack.

Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."

And...

"When you do not want to do battle, even if you draw a line on the ground to hold, the opponent cannot fight with you because you set him off on the wrong track.

Therefore when you induce others to construct a formation while you yourself are formless, then you are concentrated while the opponent is divided.

When you are concentrated into one while the opponent is divided into ten, you are attack at a concentration of ten to one, so you outnumber the opponent."

And...

"Your battleground is not to be known, for when it cannot be known, the enemy makes many guard outposts, and since multiple outposts are established, you only have to do battle with small squads."

I have decided that "stonewalling" as a means of causing your attacking spouse to "guess" where you are coming from for a time may be a good tactic. Stonewalling emotionally, drawing a line in the sand, and walking away brought my fiance and myself to a place where emotional craziness in our relationship was halted. After that time of separation we could come back together free from internal sabotage. 

It was one of the things that saved our relationship... even before we got married. 

I do not know if a comparison to the  "Art of War" is needed here, but understanding conflict strategy from it might be helpful to someone.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

After posting about the 180 plan a few days ago, the following popped in my head.

I wonder if the 180 plan has a backfire caveat. I am sure that if someone is to use this technique well, then he or she must:


Have a real sense of self-respect, not just an over compensating complex.

Have something that they can appeal to from the past, ie, invested in the marriage already and is sincerely wanting to own up to his or her part of the problems of the marriage.

Have a real/sincere desire to be "All In" if his or her spouse does go for the bait and attempts to work on the relationship with the 180 performing spouse.

I think that truly not having these prerequisites firmly established before attempting the 180 plan could be dangerous! If there is a crack in the system then the problems may just worsen.

A thought from a concerned contributor.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> I wonder if the 180 plan has a backfire caveat. I am sure that if someone is to use this technique well, then he or she must:
> 
> Have a real sense of self-respect, not just an over compensating complex...


I want to add an additional comment in regards to what I said about self respect. It is very possible that a weakened sense of self respect may be rebuilt if following the 180 plan works for the betterment of all involved. A restored marriage due to standing up and drawing a line in the sand could be a good way to build one's self-esteem. 

Therefore, I would recommend having moral support and good advice as a support in this 180 plan. 

All the Best!


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## 36Separated

IS the 180 for the spouse that isn't happy? I'm trying it to try and show her im a better perosn in the hope one day she will come back


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## Sbrown

I did the 180 in my last d without knowing it. Did it win her back? No but it made her regret her decision. By the time she wanted to R I was done and had decided to move on. I remember telling her that she better think long and hard about her decision because she would want me back and it would be to late. She flipped out and called me an arrogant SOB I just laughed at her. IMO the 180 is for you more than R the marriage. It reminds you that you can survive without them and I had so many women notice my new attitude and appearance that my ex faded fast. It does sometimes remind the stbx of what a catch you are and can help with r. But to do the 180 for them would never work you must do it for yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> I did the 180 in my last d without knowing it. Did it win her back? No but it made her regret her decision. By the time she wanted to R I was done and had decided to move on. I remember telling her that she better think long and hard about her decision because she would want me back and it would be to late. She flipped out and called me an arrogant SOB I just laughed at her. IMO the 180 is for you more than R the marriage. It reminds you that you can survive without them and I had so many women notice my new attitude and appearance that my ex faded fast. It does sometimes remind the stbx of what a catch you are and can help with r. But to do the 180 for them would never work you must do it for yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. So it's not soley for the one that wants out. It feels like she is doing a 180 to me, she has changed so much in 4weeks


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## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Thank you. So it's not soley for the one that wants out. It feels like she is doing a 180 to me, she has changed so much in 4weeks


Are you "chasing" her?


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> Are you "chasing" her?


I was - i'm now trying to give her space, but i see her everyday for the kids


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> I was - i'm now trying to give her space, but i see her everyday for the kids


36Seperated, giving her space is good. It sounds to me that you "love" her, even though things may have gone wrong in the past. 

You have a forced situation where both of you have to be together for the kids. *Man Up*, even if all you can do is the 180 plan when you see her. 

Give her the space to think this split through, while having a strengthened self respect displayed around her. It is a great thing to do. 

Using the 180 plan, while "being straightforward" with your ex or soon to be ex about your dissatisfaction about her negative actions toward you is important too. 

You want her to know that you are not a doormat. Make it clear that she cannot come running back to you *if* she doesn't try to be sorry for her part in the break up. 

Also, make it clear that she cannot come running back to you if things don't work out for her.

I think that since you really want to get back together, don't sabotage it by "getting even" by shutting her out if she wants you back. Just stand up like the man that you are. That is attractive to women. This is worth repeating, do not permit her to come back to you until she has at least come clean to you about any "real reasons" why she wanted out... And, you are sure that she means to fix those things. 

You have to have clear boundaries and conditions in place before taking her back. Think back to the hurtful things she did, anything that she has not asked forgiveness for, or is thoughtless about. Also, determine what things she did to sabotage the relationship. Have clear ultimatums in mind before taking her back. 

Then, I would suggest helping her any way that you can to reach a goal of becoming more of the women your marriage needs.

If you have been any part of the problem within the break-up, then own up to it too. A real man takes responsibility for his actions. Get those things taken care of too.

If both of you want to work on each of your faults in the break-up, then that is great. Make sure both she and yourself are "all in" for the reconciliation steps and/or counseling that will be needed. Not taking care of business is a recipe for going through this again.

You have it in you to do this. You had it in you in the first place when both of you got together. Reach down deep and become a better man. Don't defeat the purpose of your desire to make the relationship work by letting ego games get in the way.


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## 36Separated

Thank you Rough Patch Sewing.
Up date on whats happend since last post. I saw her wednesday and again treated me like sh*t, angry shouting etc.
So later that night I texted her telling her i wasn't going to continue to allow her to treat me that way and if she cant get on with me i will only see the kids on the days we have arranged and i wont get out the car. Yesterday we spoke over the phone and she agreed to try to be friends, but doesn't want any of the past or 'us' bringing up, she also said she doesn't know if she can get over what has happend.[i see this as her questioning herself?] Since the call I saw her 3 times, each time she got on with me and invited me in her home. There is def tention when we are being friendly, but do i take her at her word and just go with it? or this this an act?


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Seperated, 

Definately take your wife at her word concerning being freindly, but no "us"!

As a husband, it is critical to understand this general fact about women. They have a need to "feel" as well as think things through when they are confused, angry, or fed up.

Many long hours talking to my wife who is a psyche nurse has brought this to my understanding. I want to share the keys to making the best of this secret with you.

To make it clear, your wife is obviously in a tornado of emotions right now. Go to her and be up front about this one thing - be absolutely resolute:


Tell her that you want to give her all the space she needs to process all of her emotions about (insert the big thing that caused the separation).

Then own up to everything that you did to make that one "bad thing" happen. 

Tell her how much you regret, x,y, and z and that you are sorry for x,y, and z. 

Tell her you are sorry for what you did to hurt her and the marriage.

Make it clear that you will do what is necessary to give her all of the respect needed to think and feel through this.

Do not tell her that you are going to become a better man, thinner, more in shape, etc.... Let her figure that out for herself!

Establish a means for her to contact you when and if she is ready to work things out with you.

This is a good start. You can read more about how to handle these situations in my articles:  Marriage In Crisis! , and  5 Powerful Ways to Make Getting Back Together Possible for You!. These articles provides advice that should fit your situation and can give insight into "her world."

If things work out better and quicker for you than expect then check out the link in my signature titled, "How to Make My Wife Want Me."

Please post again if possible, I want to know how your efforts to save your marriage are progressing... even if they do not progress for a long while I still want to know.

Also, I do want to help you further... these recommendations work not just for saving a separated marriage. They work in key times of conflict between husbands and wives. 

If you get discouraged, please consider letting me know... In any case make sure that you have "Positive" men who are good friends who can help you through this as well. If they have been in the same situation and won their wives back then they will be invaluable to you in your efforts.


Hoping for the Best!

RP


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## 36Separated

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> 36Seperated,
> 
> Definately take your wife at her word concerning being freindly, but no "us"!
> 
> As a husband, it is critical to understand this general fact about women. They have a need to "feel" as well as think things through when they are confused, angry, or fed up.
> 
> Many long hours talking to my wife who is a psyche nurse has brought this to my understanding. I want to share the keys to making the best of this secret with you.
> 
> To make it clear, your wife is obviously in a tornado of emotions right now. Go to her and be up front about this one thing - be absolutely resolute:
> 
> 
> Tell her that you want to give her all the space she needs to process all of her emotions about (insert the big thing that caused the separation).
> 
> Then own up to everything that you did to make that one "bad thing" happen.
> 
> Tell her how much you regret, x,y, and z and that you are sorry for x,y, and z.
> 
> Tell her you are sorry for what you did to hurt her and the marriage.
> 
> Make it clear that you will do what is necessary to give her all of the respect needed to think and feel through this.
> 
> Do not tell her that you are going to become a better man, thinner, more in shape, etc.... Let her figure that out for herself!
> 
> Establish a means for her to contact you when and if she is ready to work things out with you.
> 
> This is a good start. You can read more about how to handle these situations in my articles:  Marriage In Crisis! , and  5 Powerful Ways to Make Getting Back Together Possible for You!. These articles provides advice that should fit your situation and can give insight into "her world."
> 
> If things work out better and quicker for you than expect then check out the link in my signature titled, "How to Make My Wife Want Me."
> 
> Please post again if possible, I want to know how your efforts to save your marriage are progressing... even if they do not progress for a long while I still want to know.
> 
> Also, I do want to help you further... these recommendations work not just for saving a separated marriage. They work in key times of conflict between husbands and wives.
> 
> If you get discouraged, please consider letting me know... In any case make sure that you have "Positive" men who are good friends who can help you through this as well. If they have been in the same situation and won their wives back then they will be invaluable to you in your efforts.
> 
> 
> Hoping for the Best!
> 
> RP


many many thanks for this - i will keep you posted


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## 36Separated

Last few days i've had as little of contact as poss - just dropping off n picking up kids, not said much at all. She seems to be talking Ok to me min


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## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Last few days i've had as little of contact as poss - just dropping off n picking up kids, not said much at all. She seems to be talking Ok to me min


It might confuse her at first. Just keep it up. It is more for you than her!


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Good 36Separated. Please do keep me posted!

OK, when my wife and I were engaged, we had to face many challenges about unmet expectations that each of us had for one another. 

One thing that caused her to become disheartened about "us" revolved around my failure to stop harsh words my family made towards her once and for all. I couldn't stop them from "talking" or having their opinion, but I didn't make it perfectly clear that I would not put up with hurtful criticism of our relationship and her.

During the 180 plan weeks apart - I made sure to stand up for her greater than I had ever done prior. Mostly because the messages I received from some of my family was, "She needs to, blah, blah, blah..." It was a perfect opportunity for me to stand up for her... even amongst the confusion and pain of a break-up.

That had massive impact when we got back together and talked. I had personality flaws that I worked on during that time 

... But, she was more endeared to me by my "stepping up to the plate" and standing up for her. More so than anything else.

Now, what can you take away from my own 180 plan experience? 

In a prior post you stated that you still 'love' her. If one of your friends or family try to bad talk her - don't put up with it, or even listen to them. Instead, stand up for her! Don't necessarily cover for her, or lie about her to paint a perfect picture of her. Instead, simply say, "Hey, that's my wife you are talking about, and I won't have any of this"! 

If they won't back down or say they are sorry for "putting your wife down", then decide between her or them.

Good friends or family should see that you do not want to be turned against her.

Am I saying this will happen to you? No, can't say that.

But, this is the thinking of a man who will stop at nothing to win his wife back. That is the kind of man who has a chance of winning her back! And...

Word gets around. If she learns of your loyalty to her she will be grateful - what's best she will respect you!

This leads me to my next message to you! I will post it soon!

Hope this helps!

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> It might confuse her at first. Just keep it up. It is more for you than her!


36 Seperated, Sbrown is right! At this point it is more for you than for her, because you are the one trying to make things right and get her back. Right?

Is this WWIII or a being at odds with a lot on the line, family, kids, happiness without the added baggage of an ex in the background, financial burden, etc...

Be sure of what it is that you are facing and what you ultimately want. If you want to get her back it has to ultimately be about the "us" that she doesn't want to talk about. That means you need to consider her and what is good for her too!

She might have declared war on you, but that is not what I get from how you describe the way she is reacting. To me, it seems that she is angry, fed up and confused.

If she just wants to destroy you then that is something different.

Perhaps the only way to know is to talk to someone close to her and close to both of you. 

Note, you may want to wait a few weeks to do something like what I am suggesting. It may backfire. Choose wisely about doing this, but if you need this, then it may be worth the risk. It could really help. It has always worked for me, but we have different situations.

Is there anybody who you can go to who will be frank, candid, and not take sides?

Even if it is her family, make it clear that you just want to understand her and make things better.

Make it clear that you are not trying to be sneaky. You need help and this is the best way to get it if you can't talk directly to your wife. Let the person you will be asking for help know that they can decide to tell your wife about the "talk", but make it clear to them that you are trying to gain understanding...

Not turn any one against her.

Ask them to tell her that you asked them, so there are no surprises.

In fact, make sure that if the "talk" goes into a bad direction, like an argument, gossip, bad talking, playing sides, etc. respectfully end the "talk".

In fact, it is best to only have two questions ready.

Can you help me understand who my wife is as a person better?

How can I become the man she needs me to be in your opinion?

That is the best approach!

If things go wrong. Be the first to admit it to your wife... just like it is recommended. "I want to understand you better, but can't go to you just yet... I still want to give you space. 

This is my advice. Please let me know if you are considering taking this advice first, and I will make sure my psych med wife will give her "two cents worth" too.

Be very careful. If you do not think it will work, then you are probably right. The situation may just be too sensitive at the moment to try this.

Remember, the best way to win is not mutually assured destruction, but rather as the "art of war" puts it, understand your opponent strongly so you are not battling on "deadly ground", but only on "heavy ground." It is the best way to win. It may be a war, but you will win without casualties.

Hoping or the best.

RP.


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## donders

reallyover? said:


> The question is......Has anyone had legitimate success in saving their marriage by using the 180 approach????


That's like asking if anyone has been able to build a wall using a shovel.

The 180 is a tool to fix yourself not your marriage.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

This is the post in which, I learned about the 180 plan. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/23594-180.html

If I am not missing something the 180 plan is a way of not being a doormat, especially for a cheating spouse. It makes you look and probably feel strong... and strong is attractive.

Does this preclude using this to "pop their positive bubble" effect to make a spouse see you as a real person. A person who will not be used and abused. Will this not turn their perception of you towards the advantage of making all want to fix the marriage - before it ends in divorce?

Of course, it may be used to boost the effect of "showing up" a spouse intent on divorce.

It will build a wall, so to speak.

However, can it not also be used to make a spouse want to tear down that proverbial wall of separation too? 

I believe 36Separated wants to save his marriage by being strong.

I do not see a disconnect between that and the 180 plan. If I am wrong and the 180 plan is for divorcing in style, then I admit to being wrong.


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## 36Separated

I'm was trying to save my marriage, but i'm losing the will. 4 weeks from when she said she had been to a solicitor to start divorce, i still havent heard anything, i checked with the courts - nothing logged as yet. Today I spoke to my soliciotr and ask them to contact them to see what is ahppening. 

As for me and my wife, its up and down... most days i get the friendly smiling wife, on sat we talked fro around 20mins, I told her i wont defend the divorce if she 100% and ill make it as quick as poss, she said she needed time to think ???


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## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> I'm was trying to save my marriage, but i'm losing the will. 4 weeks from when she said she had been to a solicitor to start divorce, i still havent heard anything, i checked with the courts - nothing logged as yet. Today I spoke to my soliciotr and ask them to contact them to see what is ahppening.
> 
> As for me and my wife, its up and down... most days i get the friendly smiling wife, on sat we talked fro around 20mins, I told her i wont defend the divorce if she 100% and ill make it as quick as poss, she said she needed time to think ???


If I was in your shoes (yes I know it is easy to say this from where I am sitting) I would file and make her chase you! Don't tell her, just do it! Speak only to her about the children and the D PERIOD!

She can't respect you, because it seems like she is in control!


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

Losing the will to keep fighting for your marriage is understandable. Do you have a real close friend of whom you can get emotional support? Moral support can be a good help when you feel like you are losing the will to fight.

Since the divorce papers are not registered yet, she is smiling, and both of you are talking then it seems to me that there is hope for both of you to work out your problems - outside of the court room. If the divorce is not in motion, and she says she needs time to think, then my advice to you is to allow her to do just that.

It sounds to me like you are doing this the right way. If you stay strong, with the support of a good friend, then it is very doable to wait for her to think this through.

Let me know if you agree or disagree.

Here's hoping the best for you.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36 separated,

Is she a controlling woman?


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## Sbrown

If my wife told me she needed "time to think" Id be investigating for another man in her life! It is part of the "script" Do some research on here, it is said time and again by WW.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> If my wife told me she needed "time to think" Id be investigating for another man in her life! It is part of the "script" Do some research on here, it is said time and again by WW.


Understanding your spouse is key. If your spouse has shown signs of infidelity, or had infidelity in the past then, yes, good idea. However, if I heard that from my wife, I would take her at her word and give her the time to think. Some times cynicism is smart, sometimes it causes unnecessary conflict and pain.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> If I was in your shoes (yes I know it is easy to say this from where I am sitting) I would file and make her chase you! Don't tell her, just do it! Speak only to her about the children and the D PERIOD!
> 
> She can't respect you, because it seems like she is in control!


36Separated,

Do you want respect from her that you have earned, or do you want her to be manipulated into giving to you. 

Is true respect earned by being a man?


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## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> 36Separated,
> 
> Do you want respect from her that you have earned, or do you want her to be manipulated into giving to you.
> 
> Is true respect earned by being a man?


Any respect gained is respect earned! There is no manipulation, if he is standing up and being the leader in his marriage!


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## 36Separated

Dont know of any other man in her life. I want her to repsect me. I dont want her back as things were, but I see where we both need to work.

Just to add, i feel this is all about her being in control


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Dont know of any other man in her life. I want her to repsect me. I dont want her back as things were, but I see where we both need to work.
> 
> Just to add, i feel this is all about her being in control



36Separated,

Do you want to earn her respect? 

It follows that the action that will earn her respect should be respect worthy. 

If you do respect worthy things... Things that are respect worthy whether she recognizes them or not, then you are worthy of respect. You can hold your head up high no matter what.

If she cannot respect you in those circumstances, then she will not be able to really be in control.

How certain are you that this is just a power play by her? Be certain. If you just do another power play, then you will not earn her respect. However, if you do treat her like a real woman and behave like a real man, then she will be the one who is at fault. Not you. Be strong, not through mind games but by doing a real 180. Understand the situation and her fully before threatening divorce.

If you were to threaten divorce for the sake of making her want you back, then if you have to hide that fact from her in order to gain respect, then you never really earned that respect.


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## 36Separated

Thank you Rough Patch Sewing


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## Rough Patch Sewing

You are welcome 36Separated,

I knew I was dealing with a real man when you said, "I still love my wife." 

You took real ownership of your marriage when you said, "my wife."

Remember that!

Respect follows where respect leads.

Please keep me up to date. I check this thread every day.

RP.


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## 36Separated

You think that this its still possible to sort our marraige RP?


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> You think that this its still possible to sort our marraige RP?


36Separated,

Absolutely! You have not decided against restoring the marriage - and making it whole, healthy, and much better than it has ever been.

I have a question for you. Can you accept the fact that you cannot change your wife? The marriage can be better even if you still feel like she is controlling?

These are important questions. 

If you can say, "Yes!"

Then I believe you have what it takes to have the most amazing marriage, with a positively changed woman.

What I am really getting at is deeper than respect for each other. Lasting love is built on honoring each other... as is.

If getting her respect right now is not possible, can you go one step further and honor who she is as a person anyways?

She might not deserve your respect... you might not deserve her respect yet too.

The only way to get around this and make it work is to move beyond respect and embrace honoring her.

When you take ownership of honoring her... that means that you become the better person, and make it your mission to come to a deeper understanding of who she is as a person.

People with a high sense of honor inside them do what is right not because of personal benefit, but because they must do what is right. If you think that saving your marriage and providing a stable home for your family is the right thing to do, then do just that. How you feel right now is not the priority. That is why I stress getting a good friend who will listen to you and help you through frustration. Positive change flows from not giving up and not being selfish. You would not be a door mat because being strong is not an act, it is a strong inner sense of doing what is right.

Mind games often backfire, and will turn your mate against you. Be stable during an unsure time and she will be foolish not to grab it in this day and age.

Options of that caliber are few for many women. You can be the kind of man that is a man. Not a boy who is a player.

Tell you what. I don't know you, but my marriage went through very tough years. I felt controlled and manipulated by my wife and she felt the same from me. Honoring her no matter what really has changed both of us. Only then could we really seek personal and marital counseling together - counseling that really worked. 

We have a really loving relationship now, and I feel as though she does not try to control things in our marriage. I gave up on trying to manipulate my way into getting things my way. It is very counter to what we are brought up to do in our day and age, but it is at the very center of positive change.

That is the foundation of my entire blog and site. It worked for me and my friends in their marriages so much that I had to start writing about it.

If you ever want to personal message me, please do. I will try to check it whenever possible and listen to what you have to say. I might be able to help you if you want it.

Let me know. I am not trying to solicit business from you. I just see that if you do not have a real good friend who has saved his marriage, then I may just be the next best thing.

So there you have it.

Hoping for a breakthrough,

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

I also want to add that it is important to understand what problems added up to create the split in your marriage.

Understand what she did to contribute to the split and what you did to contribute to the split. You can work on those things that were your fault in light of understanding who she is as a person.

Very helpful in sorting out a marriage.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

Dignity does not come from your wife. You have to know your true worth to have personal dignity. Your wife can hurt your pride all day long, but she cannot touch your dignity... if you don't let her.

If she is manipulative and controlling, then perhaps she is messing with your pride. However, by having self dignity, you can come clean to her about any mess up, or mistake she might be complaining about. Dignity helps you say, "I'm sorry. Please forgive me for x,y, and z" And, "Let's make this work."

If she still acts ugly towards you, then you know that it is coming from a place of hurt, pain, dissatisfaction that goes deeper than what she is complaining about.

That is why I say that it is so important to understand who she is. What she went through growing up. What makes her tick. This is the heavy ground from which you can ask her to open up to you. 

Here's a hint: Most women want to connect relationally and if you allow her to open up to you like that, then there will be healing.

It may take lots of time, over a long time period, but positive change can happen. Trouble is, most of us have to drop our pride, while upholding our dignity in order to make it happen.

Hope this helps,

RP.


----------



## Sbrown

36seperated her is a link I am nearly certain you will need...Coping with Infidelity


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

Was infidelity in your case. I did not know. I did not assume that seeking the 180 plan was due to infidelity.

I suppose they go together. I did not want to assume it in your case. This goes beyond pride. It goes into trust.

There can be reconciliation. You have have said that you want to save the marriage. You cannot have a marriage where there is no trust.

Counseling and many boundaries need to be established to save a marriage ravaged by infidelity.

You can still use the advice I give, but it is dependent on reestablishing that trust.

I also do not want to assume that it is all over if she, or you, or both of you cheated. It is just harder. Some of my friends have survived infidelity and I know of one couple that got remarried after infidelity.

If she cheated on you, still find out what part you played in her decision. Why did it happen is a good question to ask, instead of simply laying blame, even though it hurts.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Dont know of any other man in her life. I want her to repsect me. I dont want her back as things were, but I see where we both need to work.
> 
> Just to add, i feel this is all about her being in control


36Separated,

Does this mean that she did not cheat?


----------



## 36Separated

I dont believe she has - no evidence of it


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> I dont believe she has - no evidence of it


That is good. Do you know any of the tell tale signs of cheating. I believe that it is good to rule it out before moving forward with reconciliation.

From what you know of her, is that something she is capable of doing?

If you are not sure check out my articles:  5 "Tell All" Signs of an Affair - How to Get Peace of Mind Again,  Affair Signs, and  Signs of Cheating

If you don't think she is capable of cheating then perhaps you should disregard the articles. It may be worse if you become paranoid then just talking through things instead.

Hope this helps.

RP.


----------



## 36Separated

Ill check the link, but before reading i would think not


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Ill check the link, but before reading i would think not


Good to hear you are not suspicious.


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Ill check the link, but before reading i would think not


Did she ask for the separation out of the blue(at least in your eyes)? And the "time to think" makes me think there is an OM. 

Did she ever say "I need space"?


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> Did she ask for the separation out of the blue(at least in your eyes)? And the "time to think" makes me think there is an OM.
> 
> Did she ever say "I need space"?


Out of the blue is suspicious. If there has been marriage issues for some time, then to assume an affair does not build trust. She will feel falsely accused and further place a wall between she and you.

Women need to process how they feel, if she is not happy in the marriage you do not want to drive her away... possibly into the arms of a man who will listen to her. Instead, be that man!

Innocent until proven guilty is safer.


----------



## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Out of the blue is suspicious. If there has been marriage issues for some time, then to assume an affair does not build trust. She will feel falsely accused and further place a wall between she and you.
> 
> Women need to process how they feel, if she is not happy in the marriage you do not want to drive her away... possibly into the arms of a man who will listen to her. Instead, be that man!
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty is safer.


I would NEVER recommend falsely accusing, or even accusing on suspicion. Read the infidelity threads on there the cheating spouses all follow a "script" and most use the "I need space/time to think" it is almost without fail. Look for the evidence and if you find it then confront. You can not love her enough to make her come back if she doesn't respect you.

36seperated, I think you need to start a thread focused solely on your problems, you will get a broader response.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> I would NEVER recommend falsely accusing, or even accusing on suspicion. Read the infidelity threads on there the cheating spouses all follow a "script" and most use the "I need space/time to think" it is almost without fail. Look for the evidence and if you find it then confront. You can not love her enough to make her come back if she doesn't respect you.
> 
> 36seperated, I think you need to start a thread focused solely on your problems, you will get a broader response.


This is good advice. I would advice against jumping to conclusions too quickly. Affairs happen for many different reasons. Understanding who she is as a person will add the perspective. 

Just because she might display a pattern does not mean she needs to be lumped into a category. If that were the case then the untold thousands of women who have asked for a separation/ trial separation are suspect of cheating.

Remember, the posts on those threads are skewed, because many responders have been cheated on. Of course there is a consensus of signs of cheating that run true. You know the problems in your marriage, do not discount them when looking at signs of an affair. 

Yet, Sbrown has a point. Being informed is good, the threads will help.


----------



## 36Separated

We had issues for months, she did tell before went that she was going to do it so we could start to fix our marriage


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> We had issues for months, she did tell before went that she was going to do it so we could start to fix our marriage


Sounds like she has honest intentions by giving advanced notice of her plan to separate. She would be crazy to pull off an affair dropping you the advanced warning - Pursue her with discretion. And be the man she is hoping for you to be.

Her playing mind games doesn't present you with the real her, and you playing mind games doesn't offer her the real you.


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## 36Separated

Its the games that are hard to see through... is this divorce for real?


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Its the games that are hard to see through... is this divorce for real?


If I remember what you wrote, you said that she has changed so much in 4 weeks, yelling, screaming. She wants time to think, she has said she did not want to work on "us" at that time, but now is talking, but with tension between you.

Next, she is the friendly smiling wife. No divorce papers registered with the court.

The most interesting part is when you told her that you would not allow her to treat you like a door mat. She started to treat you with civility then.

My question for you is this. You said that there have been issues for months, was there one big thing done that drove her over the edge?

Don't answer me specifically if you do not want to disclose your personal business, just think about it. What is her motive? Different things elicit different responses from women. I do not know if there is an easy answer to your question.

Has she ever played mind games with you before?



My hunch is that she is angry, confused, and emotional. Hence the mood swings in the last week or so. If you have been doing the right things as you say, then attribute that to her change around. 

Is there someone who knows what is going on that you can ask for insight? Remember the warnings that I made in my prior post about being careful what you do when you ask a third party. Let me know if you need me to quote it for you so you know for sure what I am talking about.

I hope this helps.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Its the games that are hard to see through... is this divorce for real?


Also, it is best to respond as if this were real. Don't waist time. Keep doing what you are doing and when you think it is the best time to try to talk to her, then do it.


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## 36Separated

U think i should just give up ?


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> U think i should just give up ?


No. Perhaps you misunderstood. Whether or not she is playing mind games is not certain. You need to be certain that you want to be serious about getting to the bottom of what she really means.

I think that she is confused and is capable of going through with the divorce if you do not treat her with respect, give her the time she needs. In all of this strategy - you should make sure that there is a day in the near future that you two get together to talk and make the marriage work.

I believe that she is not playing mind games. That does not mean that you should give up. Do what needs to be done instead. Refer back to my recommended strategy.

If you can't find it, then I will quote it for you in another post on this thread.

Don't give up.

RP.


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## 36Separated

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> No. Perhaps you misunderstood. Whether or not she is playing mind games is not certain. You need to be certain that you want to be serious about getting to the bottom of what she really means.
> 
> I think that she is confused and is capable of going through with the divorce if you do not treat her with respect, give her the time she needs. In all of this strategy - you should make sure that there is a day in the near future that you two get together to talk and make the marriage work.
> 
> I believe that she is not playing mind games. That does not mean that you should give up. Do what needs to be done instead. Refer back to my recommended strategy.
> 
> If you can't find it, then I will quote it for you in another post on this thread.
> 
> Don't give up.
> 
> RP.


Thanks - its just hard


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Thanks - its just hard


Very hard indeed! Be patient. Breath slow. Keep on doing what you are doing. Send me private message anytime. I helped a good friend through it a few years back when his wife left with the kids. It worked out for them.

Reflect on the issues that have culminated to this point in your marriage. Prioritize them, and make a plan for owning up for what you did in each circumstance and be ready to ask for forgiveness and man up to each problem.

You cannot make her do anything. But you can be a positive influence, if you take the time to simply try to understand her.

If she sees that, she should help you in anything that you do not get quite right. That has worked in serious situations with my wife and I, over and over again.

I hope this helps. Putting your heart and soul into reaching her must be genuine. Often it is what is rewarded.

Don't forget to do your homework concerning both of your marriage situation.

Keep in touch,

RP.


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## 36Separated

Don't think i'm getting anywhere with my wife, saw he yesterday and this morning picking up / dropping kids off. Both time friendly but my son said he asked her if mum n dad are going to be ok and she told him, if nothing else happens maybe we could get on as friends

{ps still no divorce papers and no news from solicitors yet]


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Don't think i'm getting anywhere with my wife, saw he yesterday and this morning picking up / dropping kids off. Both time friendly but my son said he asked her if mum n dad are going to be ok and she told him, if nothing else happens maybe we could get on as friends
> 
> *{ps still no divorce papers and no news from solicitors yet]*


That's because you are a back up plan. And as long as you continue to try to "honor" her you will always be a back up plan, until she finds someone better.


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> That's because you are a back up plan. And as long as you continue to try to "honor" her you will always be a back up plan, until she finds someone better.


Think your right


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## Rough Patch Sewing

I think it is wise to consider the following: The best way to build a case against her involves taking the time to understand what she means, why, and getting a private investigator. Otherwise you may become a victim of paranoia.

I recommend that if you want to save this marriage, then it is best to think more about the spouse than oneself. No marriage ever lasts under selfish conditions, and sure won't be saved either.

One's ego can be saved: I, me, mine, or the "us" can be saved. The same "us" of which she is not sure about anymore.


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## Sbrown

The problem with thinking more about the spouse than yourself is you can't change what they do. You can only change your actions and perceptions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> The problem with thinking more about the spouse than yourself is you can't change what they do. You can only change your actions and perceptions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So Many questions occur to me when I read this statement.

Let's assume that the first part of this statement is true in marriage relationships. I keep on talking about absolutely thinking about your spouse before yourself and I will tell you why at the end of my next post.

2 possible outcomes come to mind if in fact a spouse cannot change what the other spouse does.


*Personal Development:* One or both spouses work on personal development and become great people in many different areas of life. One or both are different and better than either had been when they first fell in love, but since they are only thinking of themselves as individuals and not for each other, they may go in two completely different directions. Would this develop into drifting apart due to differences that do not relate together well?

*Mediocrity:* One or both spouses do not work on personal development of any kind. They are still the same people who fell in love with each other at the beginning, BUT since they are only thinking of themselves as individuals and not for each other, they do not meet the needs of each other. Would this develop into "Cold War" tension between the two of them?


Do any of these possible scenarios seem like they would lead to happy, and healthy unions within a marriage? Would only thinking of ones self because he or she cannot change the other have any positive effect to unite the two people together again?

I am perplexed if this could ever work. Can self preservation - looking out for #1, even make one person truly happy in the wake of these results?

I have more to say, but will save it for another post.

RP.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> The problem with thinking more about the spouse than yourself is you can't change what they do. You can only change your actions and perceptions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now, I have to ask some more questions about this statement. First a quick note: I have nothing against someone who holds to the logic of this statement. I just cannot stop thinking about the ramifications of the statement. So this is speaking my peace.

OK. 

Is it not true that there are many ways to change someone? Some that are healthy and moral, and other methods that are dangerous and immoral?

First the negative methods.


Lying

tricking

manipulating

coercion

blackmail

intimidation

using

"showing up" someone

quick induction hypnosis 



There are many ways to negatively make someone do what you want them to do. However, because all of these are dishonest, manipulative, divisive, and sometimes cruel methods - it often destroys relationships and leaves the victim bitter and resentful.

Everything that I have been talking about concerning changing someone has to do with positive ways of changing someone, accept the goal is to help the individual to desire to follow.

I am talking about what it takes to greatly influence people to join you in your vision, mission, or positive desired outcome. Influence is gained by first understanding the real person of whom you want to influence. You also have to use tact and emotional connection to see the world through their eyes so you can better have them align towards a common goal.

Just read everything I have been posting here, and you will see that I recommend influencing through relationship and deep understanding.

If one is sincere and truly gets to the bottom of issues, then it is more likely that mutual happiness will result from these efforts. If the relationship has been too damaged, then if enough real and insight driven positive change is put into affect, then there is a chance for reconciliation. Even if it is not optimally affective right away, at least it will not backfire and make matters worse.

In the case of broken trust/infidelity (if there is real evidence) then it takes greater resolve and trust building to re-establish trust, hopefully before it is too late.

Sometimes the pain is too great, but that should not preclude the efforts of sincerely repentant spouses from trying.

I feel like too often we give up when hope was truly possible. If it is the ego that is hurt the most... preventing real healing, then perhaps looking out for oneself is all there ever will be in life.

RP.


----------



## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> So Many questions occur to me when I read this statement.
> 
> Let's assume that the first part of this statement is true in marriage relationships. I keep on talking about absolutely thinking about your spouse before yourself and I will tell you why at the end of my next post.
> 
> 2 possible outcomes come to mind if in fact a spouse cannot change what the other spouse does.
> 
> 
> *Personal Development:* One or both spouses work on personal development and become great people in many different areas of life. One or both are different and better than either had been when they first fell in love, but since they are only thinking of themselves as individuals and not for each other, they may go in two completely different directions. Would this develop into drifting apart due to differences that do not relate together well?
> 
> *Mediocrity:* One or both spouses do not work on personal development of any kind. They are still the same people who fell in love with each other at the beginning, BUT since they are only thinking of themselves as individuals and not for each other, they do not meet the needs of each other. Would this develop into "Cold War" tension between the two of them?
> 
> 
> Do any of these possible scenarios seem like they would lead to happy, and healthy unions within a marriage? Would only thinking of ones self because he or she cannot change the other have any positive effect to unite the two people together again?
> 
> I am perplexed if this could ever work. Can self preservation - looking out for #1, even make one person truly happy in the wake of these results?
> 
> I have more to say, but will save it for another post.
> 
> RP.


So you think a person shouldn't better themselves because it might cause the marriage to split? That defies logic. If I am a better person and my wife is a good person, wouldn't she be drawn closer to me?

You are the only person you can truly change!


----------



## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Now, I have to ask some more questions about this statement. First a quick note: I have nothing against someone who holds to the logic of this statement. I just cannot stop thinking about the ramifications of the statement. So this is speaking my peace.
> 
> OK.
> 
> Is it not true that there are many ways to change someone? Some that are healthy and moral, and other methods that are dangerous and immoral?
> 
> First the negative methods.
> 
> 
> Lying
> 
> tricking
> 
> manipulating
> 
> coercion
> 
> blackmail
> 
> intimidation
> 
> using
> 
> "showing up" someone
> 
> quick induction hypnosis
> 
> 
> 
> *There are many ways to negatively make someone do what you want them to do.* However, because all of these are dishonest, manipulative, divisive, and sometimes cruel methods - it often destroys relationships and leaves the victim bitter and resentful.
> 
> Everything that I have been talking about concerning changing someone has to do with positive ways of changing someone, accept the goal is to help the individual to desire to follow.
> 
> I am talking about what it takes to greatly influence people to join you in your vision, mission, or positive desired outcome. Influence is gained by first understanding the real person of whom you want to influence. You also have to use tact and emotional connection to see the world through their eyes so you can better have them align towards a common goal.
> 
> Just read everything I have been posting here, and you will see that I recommend influencing through relationship and deep understanding.
> 
> If one is sincere and truly gets to the bottom of issues, then it is more likely that mutual happiness will result from these efforts. If the relationship has been too damaged, then if enough real and insight driven positive change is put into affect, then there is a chance for reconciliation. Even if it is not optimally affective right away, at least it will not backfire and make matters worse.
> 
> In the case of broken trust/infidelity (if there is real evidence) then it takes greater resolve and trust building to re-establish trust, hopefully before it is too late.
> 
> Sometimes the pain is too great, but that should not preclude the efforts of sincerely repentant spouses from trying.
> 
> I feel like too often we give up when hope was truly possible. If it is the ego that is hurt the most... preventing real healing, then perhaps looking out for oneself is all there ever will be in life.
> 
> RP.


The bold statement is just false! People do what they CHOOSE to do! You can not MAKE anyone do what you want them to do. No matter what you do, the other person has a choice to make. 

All the things you listed are a way to get people to CHOOSE what you want them to CHOOSE. But it is not forcing anyone to do anything.


----------



## 36Separated

Latest update... sat down and spoke with her face to face for over an hour earlier...

She says she knows im sorry and she can see i have changed and that i would treat her right in the future, she also says ideally we are together and she is back in love with me, BUt she doesnt love me at the moment and cant see it changing. She also said she is willing to give it time and pause/stop the divorce and see what happenns, but really cant see anything changing


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Latest update... sat down and spoke with her face to face for over an hour earlier...
> 
> She says she knows im sorry and she can see i have changed and that i would treat her right in the future, she also says ideally we are together and she is back in love with me, BUt she doesnt love me at the moment and cant see it changing. She also said she is willing to give it time and pause/stop the divorce and see what happenns, but really cant see anything changing


36Separated,

This is promising. She is opening up to you and being honest. She is not trying to placate you. What I mean is that she not just saying what you want to hear in order to get you to back off. 

I hope that you keep on keep'n on.

About influence, it can come from consideration and compassion. That is what I have been talking about. Sbrown is right when it comes to influence. You are trying to influence them to choose to choose you.

Sometimes influence doesn't have someone choose to choose you, but I believe with enough time and sincerity you will endear your wife back to you. I have known marriages that fell apart and then were reconciled. 

I cannot fathom how self improvement without consideration and compassion for others will have any lasting affect - I fear it only leads to conceitedness and broken marriages.

I have seen how just a little bit of compassion will melt even the most hardened hearts. It is a defeatist mentality that assumes that it is useless to try to reach people even in the middle of a divorce. However, there are some people that have built walls and have accepted closed-off world-views. Very difficult to reach.

Also, there are those who are clinically mentally ill. My wife is a psyche-medical nurse and works with them all the time. It is very challenging and it takes much effort but there can be success reaching people in those cases too. Sometimes it takes the right medication, therapy, etc. I don't think your wife is in that catagory.

If your wife is not a complete narcissist that will use any excuse to justify selfish behavior, then I think that you can reach her through just a little bit more time.

Consider her, don't just focus on yourself. 

Resources:

How to Win Friends and Influence People

7 Habits of Highly Effective People

I am hoping for good and better news!

RP.


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Latest update... sat down and spoke with her face to face for over an hour earlier...
> 
> She says she knows im sorry and she can see i have changed and that i would treat her right in the future, she also says ideally we are together and she is back in love with me, BUt she doesnt love me at the moment and cant see it changing. She also said she is willing to give it time and pause/stop the divorce and see what happenns, but really cant see anything changing


Sorry for what, exacly?


----------



## 36Separated

My mum died last year and for a couple of months i drank too much nad we agrued - i stopped drinking though, but she said it was too l8


----------



## 36Separated

After speaking on sat, sun, mon, tuesda - things seem to have got worse, had no texts, no smiles, just telling me she dont love me but will give it time. I even sent her some flowers as things seemd to be looking up, she hasn't even mentioned them


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> After speaking on sat, sun, mon, tuesda - things seem to have got worse, had no texts, no smiles, just telling me she dont love me but will give it time. I even sent her some flowers as things seemd to be looking up, she hasn't even mentioned them


36Separated,

What are some BIG traumas, hardships, neglects, etc. in her past. Maybe what you did is coming back to trigger those negative emotions. Do your homework on her and you will see what things you may even be doing with your current get togethers that are making her loose it.

Know her better than anyone else, and you will be able to handle any emotional problem she has at any given moment.

Me, I spent many long hours talking my wife's father about their problems raising her - It was eye opening. I now know how to best speak words of life and love into her than ever before.

I hope this helps.

Innocent until proven guilty. She is not your enemy. Ignorance of her as a person is your greatest enemy.

RP.


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> After speaking on sat, sun, mon, tuesda - things seem to have got worse, had no texts, no smiles, just telling me she dont love me but will give it time. I even sent her some flowers as things seemd to be looking up, she hasn't even mentioned them


Did she call you on those days?


----------



## This is me

36Separated said:


> After speaking on sat, sun, mon, tuesda - things seem to have got worse, had no texts, no smiles, just telling me she dont love me but will give it time. I even sent her some flowers as things seemd to be looking up, she hasn't even mentioned them


I could be wrong, but that is awhole lot of talking and my gut immediately thought, too much. Your title "180 success" would say that much talking is a failure.

Even when things improve we need to do mild 180s. Overwhelming them is not good. They go a long way in my humble experience.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

This is me said:


> I could be wrong, but that is awhole lot of talking and my gut immediately thought, too much. Your title "180 success" would say that much talking is a failure.
> 
> Even when things improve we need to do mild 180s. Overwhelming them is not good. They go a long way in my humble experience.


I think that the quality of the talking supersedes the quantity. Laser targeted reconnection usually does not take a lot of back and forth, back and forth. You hit key notes that endear him or her to you because you understand who they are, what they have gone through in the past, what you did in light of their hang-ups that caused such great pain.

Some people are hurt differently than others. Some people need you to take a step back after a laser targeted discussion. Some people are angry, hurt, and confused...


----------



## 36Separated

I feel she wants to bury her head and one day she will wake up knowing exactly what to do. She told me before she was drained from thinking about it and talking about and that was one of reason she left me.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> I feel she wants to bury her head and one day she will wake up knowing exactly what to do. She told me before she was drained from thinking about it and talking about and that was one of reason she left me.


Has she ever displayed this type of avoidance before? I still think that she is confused, angry, and afraid. However, her talking about the house makes me want to beseech you to find out more about who she is and her background.

What is she capable of or not capable of as a person? My wife who is a psych-medical nurse tells me that she is showing signs of normal emotions - given how you describe her present pain. 

I have to ask, "why is she changing her mind about the house"?

What you know of her character could be the key to unlocking the answer. If you were to ask her why she changed her mind about the house, would she get very defensive and try to turn the question around on you? 

I think that that would be a telling answer... if you think it wise to simply ask her (I would avoid insinuating anything),... "why the change?"

Hope this helps.

RP.


----------



## 36Separated

The problem with our marraige is that she avoided all issues, even when we spoke yesterday she said im drained its like when i lived with you, i dont want to think about it.
She said its 'her' house and its across from her parents and want to live here, but without me. Said if we sorted after she got it i couldnt move back but she would sell and we would buy somewhere else - it sounds like liees


----------



## 36Separated

Before she left, she said i dont love you, but i want us to be toghether but she wasnt willing to do anything to fix.

I believe her friend and esp her dad is the driving factor behind her wanting a divorce and trying to get the house


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> *Before she left, she said i dont love you, but i want us to be toghether but she wasnt willing to do anything to fix.*
> 
> I believe her friend and esp her dad is the driving factor behind her wanting a divorce and trying to get the house


This should speak volumes to you! Her words match her actions. Do the 180! Detach NOW!


----------



## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> This should speak volumes to you! Her words match her actions. Do the 180! Detach NOW!


For my own good or it may win her back?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> For my own good or it may win her back?


ALWAYS for your own good!


----------



## 36Separated

Do i give up on my marriage?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Do i give up on my marriage?


I think you do. I think it is time to start detaching. Have you read the 180 plan? You need to hit the gym, eat right, sleep right and concentrate on the things that you did wrong in the marriage and work on improving yourself! FOR YOU! If you do it to try to save your marriage and not for yourself, you will fail! Not only at marriage but at becoming a better person! The 180 plan works every time it is executed properly. And by "works" I do not mean that every person that 180's R's with their spouse, but they always come out a better person and happier for it!

Edit: Do not inform your stbx what you are doing! DO IT FOR YOU!


----------



## 36Separated

Thanks - this is the first time anyone has told me to give up on it. Hard to take, but i need to know if it is over

I know the 180 is for me and i will do to improve myself... but is my marriage not salvageable ?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Thanks - this is the first time anyone has told me to give up on it. Hard to take, but i need to know if it is over
> 
> I know the 180 is for me and i will do to improve myself... but is my marriage not salvageable ?


From where I sit? NO! See it takes TWO people to make a marriage work and from what you say, your wife is just not willing to do the hard work. She's done and so you just need to worry about you and your child!


----------



## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> From where I sit? NO! See it takes TWO people to make a marriage work and from what you say, your wife is just not willing to do the hard work. She's done and so you just need to worry about you and your child!


Thanks m8 - dont know how we have got to this. What about the giving it 3months?


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## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Thanks m8 - dont know how we have got to this. What about the giving it 3months?


Why would you waste another minute on someone that doesn't want to be married to you?


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## 36Separated

Thats true m8 - think ive finally got it in my head is over


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Before she left, she said i dont love you, but i want us to be toghether but she wasnt willing to do anything to fix.
> 
> I believe her friend and esp her dad is the driving factor behind her wanting a divorce and trying to get the house


36Separated,

Do you see what strategically talking and not detaching too early has revealed. She is manipulating you. She is making a marriage where she only thinks about herself... sound familiar. 

A full 180 is appropriate, but you have to ask yourself about how you feel about her and people in general. Are you going to become bitter and jaded. Are you only going to think about yourself.

Is that not what she is doing? Think about the pain you have felt. Do you want to become cynical and manipulative yourself? Do you want to use and manipulate people as she has. Do not judge if you will do the same as her out of your hurt.

I worked for years in the foreclosure industry. Many people have been hurt by business practices that set up and manipulated people. That is why I rejected signing an ARM loan.

I knew better. However, due to many selfish and bad lending and mortgage backed securities swaps, many people have suffered. The lending agencies were just thinking about themselves - like your wife. The difference is that they were faceless corporations, your wife is a real person.

You said that her friends and father are behind this in your opinion. Can you call her on that? If you ask her about this with composure and dignity do you think she will tell you the truth.

If she continues to lie to you then it will be her destroying this marriage through lies - not you. Do a 180 plan, but remember that your marriage started out with both of you thinking about each other first, now through what went wrong she is only thinking about her self now.

Is this really her? Is she being manipulated by manipulators?

If you want hope, then move with understanding. She can reject everything you do. But, you can hold your head high with you dignity. Getting in shape and improving yourself just to get back at her does not build your self worth. Being a real man through out everything will.

I hope the best for you 36Separated!


----------



## stuckmick

I am in day 4 of my 180. I got ILYBNILWY speech 10 months ago. Spent 9 months doing everything i could to fix it, typical fixer behavior. Got another round of the same speech in July. Seperated 4 days ago. Total 180. Went dark as much as i could. Only conversing about the children. She has called me twice . Each time i did not have my phone with me or i was sleeping.( I work nights)I got a text about 2 hours ago ." hope you had a good time with the kids today, are they staying with you on tues? I was working and couldnt immediaty answer it. about 20 min later i got a phone call...again, working and couldnt answer. I got a text 30 seconds later " ok, i feel like you are ignoring my text and phone calls. I dont know how you want to handle this seperation thing, but at least we can communicate about the children".....i answered back..."on a call, yeah on tues, tty soon".....wtf?....i have lost 70 pounds since this started, looking good. She wanted this seperation to see if she missed me....i gave it to her ....now she is pissed? Is she upset because she cant control me anymore? I give her space and she wants to close that space....at her convenience....what the hell? Can i do nothing right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> 36Separated,
> 
> Do you see what strategically talking and not detaching too early has revealed. She is manipulating you. She is making a marriage where she only thinks about herself... sound familiar.
> 
> A full 180 is appropriate, but you have to ask yourself about how you feel about her and people in general. Are you going to become bitter and jaded. Are you only going to think about yourself. *Have you read the 180 plan? It is the opposite of becoming "bitter and jaded." It is 100% about getting out from under peoples feet and being a man instead of a door mat! *
> 
> Is that not what she is doing? Think about the pain you have felt. Do you want to become cynical and manipulative yourself? Do you want to use and manipulate people as she has. Do not judge if you will do the same as her out of your hurt.
> 
> I worked for years in the foreclosure industry. Many people have been hurt by business practices that set up and manipulated people. That is why I rejected signing an ARM loan.
> 
> I knew better. However, due to many selfish and bad lending and mortgage backed securities swaps, many people have suffered. The lending agencies were just thinking about themselves - like your wife. The difference is that they were faceless corporations, your wife is a real person.
> *Really? Those people suffered because of the decisions they made. NO ONE has ever received a home loan they didn't ask for!*
> You said that her friends and father are behind this in your opinion. Can you call her on that? If you ask her about this with composure and dignity do you think she will tell you the truth.
> 
> If she continues to lie to you then it will be her destroying this marriage through lies - not you. Do a 180 plan, but remember that your marriage started out with both of you thinking about each other first, now through what went wrong she is only thinking about her self now.
> 
> Is this really her? Is she being manipulated by manipulators?
> 
> If you want hope, then move with understanding. She can reject everything you do. But, you can hold your head high with you dignity. Getting in shape and improving yourself just to get back at her does not build your self worth. Being a real man through out everything will.
> 
> I hope the best for you 36Separated!


----------



## 36Separated

Solictor rang be today, they have spoken to hers - she has instructed them to proceed with the divorce.
Picked my son up at tea and she had a rant crying her eyes out


----------



## donders

36Separated said:


> For my own good or it may win her back?


If you "win" someone back by doing the 180 the results are temporary at best, it's not a real solution.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

donders said:


> If you "win" someone back by doing the 180 the results are temporary at best, it's not a real solution.


I am not against the 180 plan. I think that it is prudent now that 36Separated knows that his wife is being manipulative and destroying the marriage for selfish reasons.

I know that it is a set of rules to follow in order to play reverse psychology on a mate who is spitefully treating someone. However, I do not advise on using a false facade of confidence and strength when in fact you are an emotional mess.

If the marriage gets back together, how can anyone with integrity not reveal the charade that was used to get the marriage back on course. The 180 is pragmatic, in that it has the ability to work, however, I would say that it is not wise to show your true feelings to a belligerent spouse bent on ruining everything for their own selfish reasons or to hold on to an affair.

If you do influence him or her. You can with integrity say that you did not show your true feelings because it was not safe to do so. That is prudent.

Detaching sometimes is necessary. I think it prudent to detach in a situation as this. However, I have been encouraging 36Separated to have understanding. Now he understands to some degree what is going on. Hey drew it out of her.

In his situation it seems wise to detach since he needs to detach from her selfishness and those who are manipulating her.

I encourage him to realize the true value of who he is as a person and the true value of who she is as a person. I encourage him to have strong character and be a better, honorable, and integrity filled man.

If for some reason I have misinterpreted Michelle Wiener Davis' list of behaviors for the 180 plan... than it is because I might be reading into what the behaviors really mean. However, I do not know how you can retain integrity while doing it - and how you can truthfully explain your actions to your spouse if it does make him or her come to his or her senses.

Without living with real character - how can a real relationship be established? 

Perhaps it is best to do the 180 plan on a short term basis. You have to be able to look your reconciled partner in the eyes and tell them that you really had those inclinations for detachment - feelings that if faked would make your spouse resentful if the truth were known.


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## 36Separated

Detach from it... treat it as over? no contact? sorry please explain


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Detach from it... treat it as over? no contact? sorry please explain


36Seperated,

What happened to make her drop the 3 month plan?

Anyways, you have the divorce papers now. She has made that move. I think everything changes now. Be real. Respect her decision. Be a man of honor and sign the paper.

If it is true that you do not want this divorce, tell her so. Tell her that you respect her enough to sign your name to something you absolutely do not want. No amount of reverse psychology will have the kind of impact that genuine sincerity will have. 

You have been doing a series of short 180s, while gathering understanding about her. It seems like she has been emotionally erratic all this time. But you know that she wants the house and her dad and friends are behind it. 

Are you an emotional mess? Can you hold your head high and with self dignity do this?


----------



## 36Separated

She still saying doesnt know about the 3onths to me - its just her solicitor knows nothing about it. I've still not had the paperwork, just her soliciuotr said she pressing on with it as far as she knows.I really dont want the divorce as I cant see any problems we have had being a problem in the future. Im a mess at the min, she as managed to make feel guilty for all this - which i did cause the problem, but i do feel we could have sorted but she decided walk out so for that part i do blame her and so do the kids.

The problem we had as gone - just she says she doesnt love me and cant see it changing and not willing to work at it. My daft hope is that she said that for 4months last time then came back ????


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## 36Separated

She just txtd me tell me she as booked a holiday for her and the kids and wants me talk my oldest into going with her. Strange how she suddenly got money for it, which is expensive, when been crying poverty to me for the last 2 months


----------



## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> I am not against the 180 plan. I think that it is prudent now that 36Separated knows that his wife is being manipulative and destroying the marriage for selfish reasons.
> 
> I know that it is a set of rules to follow in order to play reverse psychology on a mate who is spitefully treating someone. However, I do not advise on using a false facade of confidence and strength when in fact you are an emotional mess.
> 
> If the marriage gets back together, how can anyone with integrity not reveal the charade that was used to get the marriage back on course. The 180 is pragmatic, in that it has the ability to work, however, I would say that it is not wise to show your true feelings to a belligerent spouse bent on ruining everything for their own selfish reasons or to hold on to an affair.
> 
> If you do influence him or her. You can with integrity say that you did not show your true feelings because it was not safe to do so. That is prudent.
> 
> Detaching sometimes is necessary. I think it prudent to detach in a situation as this. However, I have been encouraging 36Separated to have understanding. Now he understands to some degree what is going on. Hey drew it out of her.
> 
> In his situation it seems wise to detach since he needs to detach from her selfishness and those who are manipulating her.
> 
> I encourage him to realize the true value of who he is as a person and the true value of who she is as a person. I encourage him to have strong character and be a better, honorable, and integrity filled man.
> 
> If for some reason I have misinterpreted Michelle Wiener Davis' list of behaviors for the 180 plan... than it is because I might be reading into what the behaviors really mean. However, I do not know how you can retain integrity while doing it - and how you can truthfully explain your actions to your spouse if it does make him or her come to his or her senses.
> 
> Without living with real character - how can a real relationship be established?
> 
> Perhaps it is best to do the 180 plan on a short term basis. You have to be able to look your reconciled partner in the eyes and tell them that you really had those inclinations for detachment - feelings that if faked would make your spouse resentful if the truth were known.


Doing the 180 for just an R, could end in just the way you describe. Doing the 180 for yourself is ALWAYS a success! It turns you into a stronger, more self aware person.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> She just txtd me tell me she as booked a holiday for her and the kids and wants me talk my oldest into going with her. Strange how she suddenly got money for it, which is expensive, when been crying poverty to me for the last 2 months


Any chance she is being bank-rolled by family, or friends even for cutting things off with you?

Just a thought. Is she capable of that? Is there more than meets the eye here?

Don't be paranoid, be prudent and consider alternative possibilities, see if they pan out or not.

Still hoping the best for you 36Separated.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> Doing the 180 for just an R, could end in just the way you describe. Doing the 180 for yourself is ALWAYS a success! It turns you into a stronger, more self aware person.


Sbrown,

What do you mean when you say reconciliation? I am assuming "R" stands for reconciliation. If I am wrong about the meaning of "R", then please would you say what you mean by that "R" word?

For that matter, what does a relationship mean to you?

What does intimacy mean to you? 

I will try my best to answer any questions you have for me. It is good to understand what each of us means when we communicate something. Perhaps that will help us better relate if you so wish. And, perhaps help this thread become more synergistic

RP.


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## Sbrown

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Sbrown,
> 
> What do you mean when you say reconciliation? I am assuming "R" stands for reconciliation. If I am wrong about the meaning of "R", then please would you say what you mean by that "R" word?
> 
> For that matter, what does a relationship mean to you?
> 
> What does intimacy mean to you?
> 
> I will try my best to answer any questions you have for me. It is good to understand what each of us means when we communicate something. Perhaps that will help us better relate if you so wish. And, perhaps help this thread become more synergistic
> 
> RP.


Yes, R on TAM usually means reconciliation. 

Sorry Doc, I'm not laying on your couch.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

Sbrown said:


> Yes, R on TAM usually means reconciliation.
> 
> Sorry Doc, I'm not laying on your couch.


Sbrown,

I can respect that!


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

I'll have a go at the meaning of reconciliation.

When it comes to marriage, it (reconciliation) means to incrementally return to the intimacy, or closeness of the marriage. Intimacy is closeness that shares the true soul of each other with one another.

Intimacy involves vulnerability. Vulnerability involves risk. Risk has the potential for devastating pain. There is also the potential for overwhelming joy, affection, and happiness.

That is where trust comes in. If trust is strongly present in your Relationship, then there is safety in vulnerability. 

The hard thing is that many spouses have learned to put walls up in order to protect themselves. 

In this "dog-eat-dog" world where fighting tooth and claw preserves you against the next guy who only wants to crush you on his (selfish) way to the top, or it just is not safe to bare your soul to others - we learn to pretend we are strong, when we are just trying to preserve ourselves.

Most of us have been put-down, made fun of, spitefully used, abandoned, and/or manipulated. At one time or another, in some degree these ills have befallen us. 

Competition can create toughness and contests of wills.

These are part of life. An intimate marriage is not absolutely free of these challenges, or free of conflict. But, there is trust enough to navigate these challenges safely... handle conflict with cooperation to come to resolution. Reconciliation back to a place of safety and understanding.

There is more to reconciling than forgiveness and apologizing. It means bringing two people closer together once again. It means to resolve differences by doing what ever it takes to remove the source and root of problems.

And, it means acceptance of who they are as a person. There is safety in acceptance if the other person has genuine intentions. 

Promising to change, begging for a second chance, all the apologies in the world do not restore trust. Working towards understanding each other and having workable safety within a relationship will bring reconciliation.

36Separated, you seem like you are a safe enough person in all this. At this point, she does not seem safe.

I hope the best for you! You may not be able make her safe. She may be in it for herself without the willingness to reconcile.

If that is the case, be civil, respectful, and minimize the damage she may bring about. I hope that you will come out of this a stronger, character filled man.

RP. 

RP.


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## 36Separated

Very odd. SHe now wants me to talk to my son and explain its joint choice to split up as he blames her. Todays my birthday and she has bought me pressies, cards and cake from the kids and been all friendly again - even asked if i want all the kids why its my birthday - not i have found out shes gone out


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Very odd. SHe now wants me to talk to my son and explain its joint choice to split up as he blames her. Todays my birthday and she has bought me pressies, cards and cake from the kids and been all friendly again - even asked if i want all the kids why its my birthday - not i have found out shes gone out


Happy Birthday!

I feel for you though! Do you think her friendliness was an act given the fact that she used it as a way to get out?

RP.


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## 36Separated

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> Happy Birthday!
> 
> I feel for you though! Do you think her friendliness was an act given the fact that she used it as a way to get out?
> 
> RP.


I don't feel the friendiness yesterday was to get the night out - i do believe it was bescause it was my birthday and in some way she felt sorry for me (as bad as that sounds)

Took the kids home this morning and we spoke for around an hour - pretty similar to before... she believes i have changed for the better, she knows i would treat her right, we went over some of the wrongs i have done and she told me she can see im better now, but again she has lost the love and doesnt think it will come back, she is still saying she will give it time and see in a month or two if she is willing to spend any time with me. She seemed alot closer today, she said she had been thinking about it all. She wasnt in a rush for me to leave and i hugged when leaving and she didnt pull away.

I just dont wanna see hope where there is none


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## 36Separated

Well after al the lies - got the divorce papers when got home from work, so thats the last i ever contact her


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

I feel for you.


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## 36Separated

went to see her when got the papers - its all been lies - she wanted to divorce me all along, just kept me sweet. She also wants me have the kids 3 times a week as wants to live the single life, she only been having kids so much when we were togther so didnt have spend time with me, now she just wants the single life. Not sure if there is someone else too now


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## 36Separated

Ok guys... how do i play this from here on. The divorce is going to happen, but I have 3 children that i see most days, even after all she has done I still love her and want her even tho i know that wont happen. When I start to talk to her i end up saying how sorry i am etc etc... and this is pointless. Do I keep all contact to a min for the kids? Do try to engage in friendly chat as i think us being friends is the best for the future. Do I give as good as I get with all the nasty things she says? Is there any way back at all from all of this?


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## Sbrown

Have you read the 180 plan?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> Have you read the 180 plan?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So cont the 180?


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## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> So cont the 180?


Sounds like you need to start the 180! Detach and become the man you need to be! FOR YOURSELF!


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> Sounds like you need to start the 180! Detach and become the man you need to be! FOR YOURSELF!


Thank you.

Dont see any other thing to do bar the 180 now

One other thing id like to get people thought on...

When I met my 'wife' she had come out of a long term relationship (6years) 2 months earlier and told me she didnt want another.. anyway we ended up living together and starting our family all within 3 months, married within 18months. When she left me the first time it was because she was back in contact with him (she said as a friend), but she did move out and half way between his house and mine. Although I dont think she has had affair this time, I do know she still had him as a friend. Did i fall for someone on the rebound and he was always her true love??


----------



## hope4family

36Seperated,

I know we vent a lot on this forum. A broken home hurts in a way that we can relate to each other. Especially when you really haven't done anything wrong. (Not sure about your story, but i'd say so.) 

You need to perform the 180. Not to save the marriage, but to protect yourself and kids. Be a good husband to the point of doing your legal obligations but seek divorce. File. If she loves you, she will come back, until then take care of yourself, so you can be the rock that your family needs.

It is impossible to be the rock your family needs if you are too worried about whether or not she comes back.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

hope4family said:


> 36Seperated,
> 
> I know we vent a lot on this forum. A broken home hurts in a way that we can relate to each other. Especially when you really haven't done anything wrong. (Not sure about your story, but i'd say so.)
> 
> You need to perform the 180. Not to save the marriage, but to protect yourself and kids. Be a good husband to the point of doing your legal obligations but seek divorce. File. If she loves you, she will come back, until then take care of yourself, so you can be the rock that your family needs.
> 
> It is impossible to be the rock your family needs if you are too worried about whether or not she comes back.


36Seperated,

Heed this advise. Enough is out in the open for you to do this to protect yourself and your family.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Dont see any other thing to do bar the 180 now
> 
> One other thing id like to get people thought on...
> 
> When I met my 'wife' she had come out of a long term relationship (6years) 2 months earlier and told me she didnt want another.. anyway we ended up living together and starting our family all within 3 months, married within 18months. When she left me the first time it was because she was back in contact with him (she said as a friend), but she did move out and half way between his house and mine. Although I dont think she has had affair this time, I do know she still had him as a friend. Did i fall for someone on the rebound and he was always her true love??


36Seperated,

She has proven herself to be untrustworthy. Do not entertain notions that are positive spins on her actions. Guard yourself and your family against the worst case scenarios of which you can imagine. It may not be true that she has always loved her ex, while you were part of a rebound marriage.

However, it is very possible that you were on the rebound, and she has had true love for her ex. Assume it to be true so that your guard is up.


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## 36Separated

Thanks m8  Booked the mediation - start the ball rolling to get her out my life now


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## 36Separated

At the solicitors morning to sort out divorce papers. Saw her today - still saying she giving it time ?????


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> At the solicitors morning to sort out divorce papers. Saw her today - still saying she giving it time ?????


36Seperated,

Innocent until proven guilty considerations for her must not enter your mind when she has revealed so much deceit and manipulation on her part.

Not until she shows real proof of seeking your forgiveness and repenting fully of her lies to you.

Protect your children and yourself from any more of her actions as much as you can.

She cannot be trusted yet.

I suggest you continue the 180 plan.

RP.


----------



## 36Separated

Been to the solicitors - we have a copy of her divorce papers - but they aren't signed yet, so my solicitor has written to her to ask if she is wanting to continue, as i cant believe a word she says


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## 36Separated

Ok, latest update for anyone with advise...

She tells me she understands why we had problems last year, but there were also lots of problems before that when werent drinking. I've explained that i can see all them and i've sorted thing. I've told her ill show her over time. She says she will hold the divorce for 3months and will go out with me and the kids one time but makes out im forcing her too. !, do i belive what she says and 2, if she does do it, surely its not me forcing her its her choice?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Ok, latest update for anyone with advise...
> 
> She tells me she understands why we had problems last year, but there were also lots of problems before that when werent drinking. I've explained that i can see all them and i've sorted thing. I've told her ill show her over time. She says she will hold the divorce for 3months and will go out with me and the kids one time but makes out im forcing her too. !, do i belive what she says and 2, if she does do it, surely its not me forcing her its her choice?


Sounds like your begging and pleading with her has made her feel guilty and it is a pity date. Don't go! Quit trying to jump through her hoops!


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## 36Separated

You dont think i should spend time with her show her ive changed?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> You dont think i should spend time with her show her ive changed?


No, I don't believe, and she doesn't believe you have changed. You have only changed to try to get her back. That type of change isn't permanent. If you had done the 180 and focused on making yourself a better person and father, maybe. IMO the 180 isn't about the SO and ignoring them, it is about making yourself a better person. FOCUS on what you have done wrong and change it, don't go out of your way like a child screaming "Look what I did, look what i did" Live your life and enjoy the benefits that come with becoming a stronger, better, person and father.


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## 36Separated

Thank you - So if i do the 180 for me, change for the better... given she is giving it 3months, if she nitices the difference is there still a chance?


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## Sbrown

Who knows 36, but at the end of that 3 months if the 180 is done properly and for all the right reasons, you will be in a much better place in life. You have NOTHING to lose.


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## 36Separated

I may as well go for it


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated,

Glad you are doing the 180. You can transform yourself and become a stronger man. Who knows. It may attract your wife back to you. 

I would not trust her though if I were you. What I mean is this. If she does not even show a thread of regret for the way she has treated you, then... how can she respect you if you do not hold her to some kind of standard of decency?


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## 36Separated

She doesnt see she has done anything wrong - she thinks she is the victim in all this.

I've stopped contacting her and just wait at the door for the kids


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## 36Separated

Not texted since sun. Picked kids up at the door, she back to all friendly and smiles yet again - all very odd


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## Sbrown

Not really.


----------



## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> Not really.


You dont think?


----------



## Sbrown

Not in the least. You're acting alpha, females respond.


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## 36Separated

My heads messed up with all this... went a parents evening yesterday, we spent 2 hrs together all smiles and fine. Today she questions if im with another woman i say no, if she dont believ divorce me asap - she tells me she believes me and what to give the divorce 3 months incase she feels different n start to miss me

?????????????????????????


----------



## stuckmick

Hahahahahaha....same boat mate!......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

You're plan b if her om doesn't pan out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

Next time ask her "what if I'm not missing you?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> My heads messed up with all this... went a parents evening yesterday, we spent 2 hrs together all smiles and fine. Today she questions if im with another woman i say no, if she dont believ divorce me asap - she tells me she believes me and what to give the divorce 3 months incase she feels different n start to miss me
> 
> ?????????????????????????


Translation: I need 3 months to do whatever I want and in the meantime just hang out. If nothing pans out for me, I will come back to you. :scratchhead:


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## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> Translation: I need 3 months to do whatever I want and in the meantime just hang out. If nothing pans out for me, I will come back to you. :scratchhead:


Very true - i told her today if she dont divorce me ill divorce her - she said she doesnt really want give it 3months, just was doing so she didnt look the bad guy to the kids


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## Sbrown

What a ****!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> What a ****!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very true


----------



## So hurt

I don't know if this a "success" story but my wife just all of a sudden out of nowhere wants to reconcile with me. She's been trying to reach me for the past 4 days. I've had no contact with her for two months since she left me (walk away wife) and said really hurtful things to me. I love her with all my heart and she betrayed me. Every single day I've thought about her and have been so hurt by her decision and how cold she's been to me that just when I started to feel better about myself she has attempted to contact me. She has sounded really "convincing" explaining why she did what she did but that she truly does "love" me and wants to prove to me that she really does love me and will do "whatever it takes" but now I'm conflicted because as much as I want to believe her because I do love her still, there is a doubt and fear that she is just lying and that she will do this again and I can't allow myself to fall into that hole again ever. It's the worst feeling in the world and it's so hard to climb out of that. I just don't know what to do or believe.


----------



## Sbrown

So hurt said:


> I don't know if this a "success" story but my wife just all of a sudden out of nowhere wants to reconcile with me. She's been trying to reach me for the past 4 days. I've had no contact with her for two months since she left me (walk away wife) and said really hurtful things to me. I love her with all my heart and she betrayed me. Every single day I've thought about her and have been so hurt by her decision and how cold she's been to me that just when I started to feel better about myself she has attempted to contact me. She has sounded really "convincing" explaining why she did what she did but that she truly does "love" me and wants to prove to me that she really does love me and will do "whatever it takes" but now I'm conflicted because as much as I want to believe her because I do love her still, there is a doubt and fear that she is just lying and that she will do this again and I can't allow myself to fall into that hole again ever. It's the worst feeling in the world and it's so hard to climb out of that. I just don't know what to do or believe.


Have you verified she had no one else? Sounds like you where the back up plan and since her and her BF broke up, she is falling back on plan b.


----------



## So hurt

I definitely don't rule out that possibility. And that's the reason why I can't trust her again because I'm her "plan b" in case all else fails. What really kills me are the thoughts of her doing this again a month from now or a year from now. I'm at the point now where I feel strong and now I have the choice to continue or end it right now which btw feels great to have this control even though the "what if's" will kill me whatever I decide to do.


----------



## jdlash

I would tell her that you still love her as well, but you don't know if you are in love with her and that you need a couple weeks at least to think about things. If she throws a fit, tell her your not ok with her running back and now that she wants it being told that you are supposed to just jump on board.

If she means it, she will wait just like you did.


----------



## hope4family

So hurt said:


> I definitely don't rule out that possibility. And that's the reason why I can't trust her again because I'm her "plan b" in case all else fails. What really kills me are the thoughts of her doing this again a month from now or a year from now. I'm at the point now where I feel strong and now I have the choice to continue or end it right now which btw feels great to have this control even though the "what if's" will kill me whatever I decide to do.


Dude. End it. Divorce her. Tell her if she is serious, that she needs to date you and win you back. Tell her not to be surprised if you go to remarry and there is a prenup that highly favors you. Remember, emotions can be faked. My s2bx tried the fake it until you make it routine for 2 years. 

Even though I like you felt like I was plan B. Plan B should have been "A" all along. You are better then that. Work on improving yourself. Be "unattainable" now. She isn't trash, she is just like any other girl now. She needs to start from square one.

If you disagree and feel your situation is different. I respect you for seeing that. I advise to protect yourself as much as possible. Do not be afraid to ask for exactly what you need for her to earn trust, and go to some marriage counseling.


----------



## hope4family

36Separated said:


> Very true - i told her today if she dont divorce me ill divorce her - she said she doesnt really want give it 3months, just was doing so she didnt look the bad guy to the kids


Let me put it this way. She is a coward, cake eater. She never intended to divorce you herself but to make you divorce her in her time frame. Give her what she wants. Just file now. Tell her you value herself and your kids too much to continue this shameful excuse of a marriage she has created.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Very true - i told her today if she dont divorce me ill divorce her - she said she doesnt really want give it 3months, just was doing so she didnt look the bad guy to the kids


Yet more proof that you cannot believe a thing she says.

Don't stand for it.

What about merely having the kids as a diversion from spending time with you?

She told you that. Do you think she would admit that in front of the kids? So she doesn't want the kids to think she is responsible for the break up of the family, huh?

She might just say anything to get what she wants...

And at all costs look good in front of others.

I do not know her, but she seems to have a forked tongue of lies.


----------



## stuckmick

Yeah....what he said....^^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## abandonmentissues

36Separated said:


> Very true - i told her today if she dont divorce me ill divorce her - she said she doesnt really want give it 3months, just was doing so she didnt look the bad guy to the kids


what a POS.


----------



## 36Separated

well my wife filed the divorce papers and ive just found out she has been staying with a man every other friday


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> well my wife filed the divorce papers and ive just found out she has been staying with a man every other friday


All the signs where there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

Appears this has been going on a cuple of months before she left.

She has now started to text me saying sorry for hurting me but the bloke is just a friend


----------



## Sbrown

Do not respond to her! Yea a friend with benefits I'm sure!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Appears this has been going on a cuple of months before she left.
> 
> She has now started to text me saying sorry for hurting me but the bloke is just a friend


She is saying sorry because she feels guilty. of course I have NEVER heard anyone admit to an affair, always the same excuses. You would literally have to catch them naked and on top of each other before she admitted anything. And even then she might still deny it, lol


----------



## 36Separated

And the wanting be friends??


----------



## Sbrown

No not be friends, she would love to keep you as plan b. after all you're better than nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

So do i be civil or tell her get stuffed?

Ive got 4-6months before divorce final


----------



## spun

36Separated said:


> So do i be civil or tell her get stuffed?
> 
> Ive got 4-6months before divorce final


You show her no emotion, interact with complete indifference, and only when necessary (e.g. finances, divorce business etc.)

The wanting to be "friends" is all about her relieving her guilt.


----------



## MSC71

Mine pulled the friend crap. I told her she didn't act like mine friend while married so why now? Too late!


----------



## 36Separated

She does appear to be being friendly now. Think she totally over it. Do i play at own game or tell her get lost?

I wanna be the better person


----------



## Sbrown

Don't tell her anything that you do not have to! Speak to her about the d and the kids THATS IT! if she is nice and friendly to you, you be indifferent, if she is mean and nasty you be indifferent! THIS WOMEN IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Read the 180 and do it. Don't talk to her about anything but the kids and the divorce. If she tries to goad you into chit chat or small talk, remain indifferent or walk away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

I need too - at a school open night with her tomoz with my son. I wont get into any chit chat


----------



## 36Separated

She stayed at this man house again tonight


----------



## how was your day?

trying to figure out if the 180 is for me
i got her to confess that she has a 'crush' on another guy (im just going to assume its more than a crush)
here is a page of her diary that she ripped out and gave to me on DDay
we've been together 10 years, married for 6

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the hardest weeks I’ve had. After 3 years of being unhappy, I’ve decided I don’t want to be with OP anymore. I’m over it, I don’t want to live this way anymore. It’s like I have two lives, a happier life when I’m away from home, and a home life that sucks to the 10th degree. It was hard for me to decide because he hasn’t done anything to me, but it clicked, what hasn’t he done for me and I feel like I could write forever. I need to write this list or I’ll randomly think of it later.

-Very isolated and doesn’t try to see anyone. I hate going places by myself all the time. I want a partner who enjoys being together. 

-The drinking and getting ****ed up all the time gets on my last nerves. A bit of alcoholism there or not dealing with PTSD. It has turned him into a wall. Not many conversations happen. I’m told I ask too many questions, to hold on cause busy with game, to stop talking that he doesn’t want to talk about it, can talk later about it, never really asks me questions like how was your day. I can also sense that what comes out of my mouth is annoying to OP or not even interested because he didn’t even listen.

-In my opinion he’s using PTSD as a way to not work, after the military he felt he deserved the unemployment checks. When he got disability he felt deserving of that too. He quit school after he got a large chunk of $. For 3 years I’ve asked what he wants to do and today he still doesn’t know. There is no motivation to do good in his life because he didn’t get the boat job, he thinks he won’t find a good job like that w/o starting at the bottom. With him being home I think it made him more depressed. I wanted him out of the house so he could feel good about what he’s doing and have a sense of worth. Thinking of CDL but doubt that will happen. 

-He so stuck in his ways and routines, he doesn’t see what he is doing is wrong at all. Everything is fine and nothing needs to change. Was told “never” going to therapy. Never going to change. Well I hate the person you are so no change means I’m getting the ****out. He needs to open UP and talk to someone, anyone, cause he’s not doing that with me. He does talk somewhat with his brothers.

-He sure likes his video games and other online ****. With everything that he does, he doesn’t have time for me. He is always in the Garage and when I’m in there I’m hardly acknowledged. If I were to take his entertainments away. I’m sure he would divorce me. I on the other hand like to live life. Be outside and experience the beauty. Do fun activities, exercise, go out, make memories. 

-I’m continuing to live life and at this point it’s been w/o OP for a long time. I want to live life with someone. Everytime I did something I would invite OP and it would hurt when he would say no. Now I’m happy when he says no. I don’t even want to be around him. I’m perfectly happy being around people that appreciate me and enjoy being around me.

-Someday I want a family and right now there is no way in hell I’m having his baby. I don’t want to be a single mom basically. I take care of the dog way more than OP in my opinion. Babies need lots of attention and since I feel I don’t get enough attention, why the hell would he for a baby. Not a good role model. Teach to be isolated, lazy, drunk, piece of ****. Would like to have kids that see joy in life, not all the wrong doings.

-Right now in my life I’m trying to improve in several areas. Quit smoking, eat healthier, exercise more, be a better person. OP is the opposite of all these. These aren't his goals but I don’t think////end///
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am walking the dog everyday now, taking care of him, training him more, lifting weights, not drinking, lost 10 pounds, and slowly removing reminders of her from my daily life... I am an Iraq war vet and if I can get through ****ing war, I can get through this... I still love my wife, and I have come to the mindset that I really do want the best for her... 11 days ago I was begging... now I want to believe I am accepting and ready to move on and start a new life.

thank god for these forums
so much help, just...thanks
i opened up to therapy/counselling but i just feel there is something else going on, I am going to go to therapy for myself for the time being
i've had a broken heart before, way younger... i dealt with that the wrong way... this time im going to do it right, im a ****ing man and i will alpha this situation


----------



## how was your day?

I know you agreed to meet my Mom on Friday.
I don't want her to make excuses for me, I don't need/want her to try to convince you of anything. 

I wish you the best, I hope you have a great rest of your life.
good luck [wife name].

-[me]




(that look like an acceptable e-mail to send during the day tomorrow?)


----------



## Sbrown

No! Send her no email! She doesn't get to meet your mother! You're moving on with your life! Ignore her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jake56

Sbrown might be right move on and try to work things in your own life out.


----------



## pseudonym

You should start your own thread in the Going Through Divorce or Separation forum. You will get more concentrated advice that way.


----------



## 36Separated

My wife txtd me last night asking me go rounbd this morn for my kids birthday with kisses on. Then ltr she posts on f,bk a divorce cake saying a good excuse for a night out laughing and then spends the night txting her b.f


----------



## Sbrown

Yep sounds like a cake eater to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

Her b.f. posted on f.bk that they are together


----------



## 36Separated

What do i do now - can i divorce her for the affair? does it make a difference


----------



## Sbrown

Usually no it doesn't make a difference. Just divorce her. Why are you looking on her and her bf Facebook page? Block them both now! And do yourself a favor, disable your fb account and go out and have fun or hit the gym or run or almost anything but worry about what the Ef she is doing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

thanks m8 - i just be civil when see her?


----------



## Sbrown

No not exactly civil, aloof, uncaring. Don't say hi, bye or ANYTHING that doesn't pertain to the kids or the D. I found my favorite line with my ex when she would try to drag me into a convo was "Oh yea?"


----------



## 36Separated

Shes a totaL ***** - do i have it out with her about the affair?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Shes a totaL ***** - do i have it out with her about the affair?


NO! Men in control do not "have it out" with anyone. There is no need. LET HER GO!!!!! WORK ON YOU! Better yourself. Ignore her and what she does!


----------



## MSC71

Having it out won't do anything. She will do nothing but lie and shift blame it on you. Plus it does not change the final outcome of anything.


----------



## 36Separated

Thanks guys 

Do i cut down contact with my kids - im still seeing the 5/6 times a week - which is good for them/me, but makes her life too easy and also means i see her daily


----------



## Sbrown

Ewe tough one. Ill think about that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

Sbrown said:


> Ewe tough one. Ill think about that one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Any further thoughts?
Is there any point in trying to be friends in the future for the sake of the kids, eg we can go the kids birthday parties etc together?
{i must admit part of me wants this for when it goes tits up with her new man to be there  }
Also are my feelings normal at this point ... one moment I hate her for this, the next i want her back even after all this, the next i want to be friends, the next i dont care ... ?????


----------



## Sbrown

Yes your feelings are normal. I think you concentrate on the kids. Let her have her freedom if she chooses it. Document every moment you have with the kids and it might come in useful in the custody battle. No do not be friends in the future! Why would you want a toxic friend, a selfish friend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MSC71

I can't be friends with someone who walked away. I can put on my happy face as needed for the sake of my child. But friends? Hell no. Friends are someone who sticks by your side no matter what


----------



## 36Separated

Thanks Sbrown
I was think be friends, so we could get on in the future for the kids, so the same birthday parties etc and tbh i still love her even tho she has done this to me ?


----------



## Sbrown

36Separated said:


> Thanks Sbrown
> I was think be friends, so we could get on in the future for the kids, so the same birthday parties etc and tbh i still love her even tho she has done this to me ?


You can be civil and still attend the bday parties, but to call her a friend would be a mistake.


----------



## 36Separated

She textd me this morning asking me have kides over the weekdn - so i txtd say i was busy to have all weekend. she then rang me to have a rant. ltr she txtd me to ask them another weekend so i said ok, just want the divorce done so we can move on - she then rang me for 20mins, telling me how she wants to be firneds n hopefully in time we can go for a brew or take the kids out together - she is eriously messing with my head


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> She textd me this morning asking me have kides over the weekdn - so i txtd say i was busy to have all weekend. she then rang me to have a rant. ltr she txtd me to ask them another weekend so i said ok, just want the divorce done so we can move on - she then rang me for 20mins, telling me how she wants to be firneds n hopefully in time we can go for a brew or take the kids out together - she is eriously messing with my head


no, she is done. Mine did and said same thing. I told mine to F**K off. Friends are people who are nice to you and treat you well.


----------



## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> no, she is done. Mine did and said same thing. I told mine to F**K off. Friends are people who are nice to you and treat you well.


So just forget the whole friends???


----------



## 36Separated

Saw her again this morning, she still saying defo wants us be friends and even maybe spend xmas morn togther with the kids, said we will never get back together n hopes i find someone n i treat them well


----------



## Sbrown

Why are you taking her calls that aren't about the children or the d?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sbrown

If she starts talking about anything other than kids or d in person do not respond. Act as if her words fell on deaf ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sbrown

Oh and HELL NO you're not spending Christmas morning with her! Any time she mentions you guys spending time together YOU HAVE OTHER PLANS! Sounds like a good time to hash out the every other holiday custody agreement!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

36Separated is a little thick isn't he?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tombaby

36, I feel your pain. I'm going through the same thing. Deep down we still love those women and they know it. We need to be unavailable, but we keep being drug back in. Even when it's long overdue and we know we need to stay away, set boundaries, but they still have a way about them. We cling to the notion of friendship because in reality we hope someday it might click. That she will be like, Oh man, you really are the man I love let's fix this.

I don't envy you. Mine wants to go the Pumpkin Patch with the kids today. I told her I wasn't sure. I want to see her, but in reality i'll just be setting myself up for another let down. letting my mind run rampant if she's acting happy or if she's sad. I know she's both, and I know she's made up her mind, so I need to distance myself. Hopefully, you'll be able to do the same.


----------



## 36Separated

bandit.45 said:


> 36Separated is a little thick isn't he?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Think i am - but my heart keeps ruling my head ;(


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> So just forget the whole friends???


Unless you can truly be her friend with zero hopes that it will get you two back together. If getting back together is your wish, you will only be setting yourself up for pain and heart ache. You can be nice to her around the kids. But you don't have to like her or be her friend.


----------



## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> Unless you can truly be her friend with zero hopes that it will get you two back together. If getting back together is your wish, you will only be setting yourself up for pain and heart ache. You can be nice to her around the kids. But you don't have to like her or be her friend.


I have to admit to myself i only wanted to be friends to sort things with her and for the sake of the kids - i need to move on
Maybe i should avoid the 'Reconciliation' section as this really isnt going to happen - although that is still unfortunately my ultimate hope


----------



## pseudonym

36Separated said:


> I have to admit to myself i only wanted to be friends to sort things with her and for the sake of the kids - i need to move on
> Maybe i should avoid the 'Reconciliation' section as this really isnt going to happen - although that is still unfortunately my ultimate hope


Don't try to be friends with her if you have ANY hope at reconciliation. It will only mess with your head.


----------



## 36Separated

pseudonym said:


> Don't try to be friends with her if you have ANY hope at reconciliation. It will only mess with your head.


She rang me before talking about the kids and that i should stay on her counch at xmas open presents in the morning


----------



## tombaby

36, this is just a "ploy" to talk to you. Get you to react. She may be sincere, but xmas is over 2 months away...

I only say this because I did the same thing about Thanksgiving...


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> She rang me before talking about the kids and that i should stay on her counch at xmas open presents in the morning


a little early to be making christmas plans isn't it ?


----------



## 36Separated

i thought so


----------



## bandit.45

Tell her the couch isn't big enough for you and your girlfriend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> Tell her the couch isn't big enough for you and your girlfriend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bandit, I just may be in love with you!


----------



## 36Separated

More updates.... 

Went this morning she kicked off, scratch all my arm said it was all my fault.
Then txted this afternoon to say defo wants get on n be friends


----------



## abandonmentissues

Tell her to shove off then go as dark as possible.


----------



## 36Separated

I know your all going say im mad - but been hers for tea tonight , then she spent the night txting me about general chit chat ????????????

AM I my own worst enemy???


----------



## abandonmentissues

Yes.

She is keeping you at arms length yet still not committing. 

She's got you right where she wants you.


----------



## 36Separated

damn my pathetic heart


----------



## 36Separated

Right guys, i really need to know. For my sake and my kids sake, do i continue to allow this 'friends' - it does feel genuine.


----------



## 36Separated

36Separated said:


> Right guys, i really need to know. For my sake and my kids sake, do i continue to allow this 'friends' - it does feel genuine.


Im totally confused and getting nowhere. So what you guys say, goes....

Dark?
Civil?
Friends?


----------



## spun

36Separated said:


> Im totally confused and getting nowhere. So what you guys say, goes....
> 
> Dark?
> Civil?
> Friends?




She does not mean friends when she says "friends".

That's a about her, easing her guilt.

You are no longer her husband, and you are not friends with people that bring you into a court of law.

Keep it civil. Like a confident, self respecting man would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pseudonym

spun said:


> That's a about her, easing her guilt


This. If you are her friend, she can get out of this guilt-free.


----------



## stuckmick

Agreed...dont assauge her guilt...mine is doing the same thing. She wants to be friends but treats me like sh*t. Why would you treat a friend like sh*t?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 36Separated

Think your spot on about the guilt - when she invited me round, her words were something like... would you like to come round for dinner, but please dont keep blaming me for this i want us to be friends

Im going back to being dark


----------



## abandonmentissues

36Separated said:


> Think your spot on about the guilt - when she invited me round, her words were something like... would you like to come round for dinner, but please dont keep blaming me for this i want us to be friends
> 
> Im going back to being dark


Yes. Darkness is the way to go.


----------



## 36Separated

abandonmentissues said:


> Yes. Darkness is the way to go.


I'm trying, but again she was txting me yest eve as if im her best friend - do i keep ignoring or tell her str?


----------



## abandonmentissues

Yes, ignore unless it has something to do with the kids.


----------



## 36Separated

abandonmentissues said:


> Yes, ignore unless it has something to do with the kids.



Thank you


----------



## 36Separated

Should i start dating again to try and move on?


----------



## abandonmentissues

That is really up to you.

I am not ready. Also I just don't feel right dating when I am not legally divorced yet. I'm fiercely loyal, even to an awful person like my stbxh turned out to be.

I wouldn't, but if you truly think you're ready to try to jump into another relationship, go for it.


I am just focusing on my career and finding hobbies. I am even planning a vacation for myself, and I am getting better. I do have my moments, but I realize when I do, I am missing the guy I married...not the guy he is right now.


----------



## pseudonym

36Separated said:


> Should i start dating again to try and move on?


To me, it seems like you are definitely not over your wife yet. I think you need to focus on yourself before you start focusing on someone else. Right now, you are focused on your wife and if you date again then you will be focused on another woman. Look internally first for a little while. Socialize with other woman, sure, but I don't think another relationship is the answer yet.


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Should i start dating again to try and move on?


Moving on is something that happens inside of you. Not by dating. No sense in making things worse by dating. Plus it would not be fair to the other person if your heart and mind were somewhere else.


----------



## 36Separated

Your right - im not over my wife yet and it wouldnt be fair to the other person. I do still still love my wife even after all that has happended


----------



## 36Separated

Done alot of soul searching today - Have decided i'm ok on my own, i don't need to date Although I do still love my wife, I am not going to be friends - I'll be civil infront of the kids, but ignore everything else other than direct txt/calls regaring the children that requires answers


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Done alot of soul searching today - Have decided i'm ok on my own, i don't need to date Although I do still love my wife, I am not going to be friends - I'll be civil infront of the kids, but ignore everything else other than direct txt/calls regaring the children that requires answers



I'm doing the same. I would live to date and meet women but I really need to be alone to find myself again. I see lots of people start dating right away and it always ends bad. I think dating right now would help keep my mind from divorce, but I think I have to make it through this alone or I will never totally heal.


----------



## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> I'm doing the same. I would live to date and meet women but I really need to be alone to find myself again. I see lots of people start dating right away and it always ends bad. I think dating right now would help keep my mind from divorce, but I think I have to make it through this alone or I will never totally heal.


SOunds spot on.
With my ex - do i just ignore or tell her i dont want be friends?


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> SOunds spot on.
> With my ex - do i just ignore or tell her i dont want be friends?


I would totally ignore her. Only talk or text when its about the kids.


----------



## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> I would totally ignore her. Only talk or text when its about the kids.


I am doing


----------



## 36Separated

Ok guys - wanna ignore her, but she has taken the kids away for a week - its a 4hour drive n ive heard nothing from her - id like t know they have got there ok


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Ok guys - wanna ignore her, but she has taken the kids away for a week - its a 4hour drive n ive heard nothing from her - id like t know they have got there ok


Have you heard anything?


----------



## 36Separated

She sent me a pic of the kids.
I replied telling her str - that i dont want to be friends n i blame her for the marraige being over. Asked her not to contact me except over the kids from now


----------



## MSC71

36Separated said:


> She sent me a pic of the kids.
> I replied telling her str - that i dont want to be friends n i blame her for the marraige being over. Asked her not to contact me except over the kids from now


No need to tell her, let your actions speak for themselves. From now on I mean. If she brings up anything about the marriage don't get sucked into blaming, arguing or telling her how you feel. You need to detach.


----------



## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> No need to tell her, let your actions speak for themselves. From now on I mean. If she brings up anything about the marriage don't get sucked into blaming, arguing or telling her how you feel. You need to detach.


Thank you - I'm ignore full stop now if she does contact me - which i dont think she will . Unless it requires an answer about the kids


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Thank you - I'm ignore full stop now if she does contact me - which i dont think she will . Unless it requires an answer about the kids


Its hard, I know. Just have to bite your tongue and not ask any questions about what she is doing, how she is feeling etc. And when you do talk act happy. Even if you are not.


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## 36Separated

I will do. Am i better not to know what she is doing?


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> I will do. Am i better not to know what she is doing?


Yes. Don't let your mind wonder


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## 36Separated

her mum txtd me at 2am to say she cant believe how i am treating my ex ????


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## 36Separated

Have i done the rgith thing - Is there any point me being her friend?


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## abandonmentissues

Yes and no.


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## 36Separated

abandonmentissues said:


> Yes and no.


Thank you


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## abandonmentissues

You dont have to be mean, but just keep things at a bare minimum...only dealing with the kids.

As long as you're civil, you're not treating your ex badly. Detaching from your ex that betrayed you is not treating her bad. The way she treated/treats you is bad.


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## 36Separated

Thank you


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> her mum txtd me at 2am to say she cant believe how i am treating my ex ????


just ignore mom too ! No need to explain anything to her. Hell, my inlaws give me the cold shoulder now. Guess what, their daughter is probably feeding them a bunch of bull****.


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## 36Separated

Keep thinking i've made the wrond choice not to be friends - but i'm going to go with the advice on here as im not thinking str at the min.


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## 36Separated

Im still sticking with the advice on here - but im desperate to have my wife back

Can anyone advise?


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Im still sticking with the advice on here - but im desperate to have my wife back
> 
> Can anyone advise?


Being her friend will guarantee you will not get back together. She wants to be your friend so she doesn't feel guilty. She's looking out for #1


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## 36Separated

MSC71 said:


> Being her friend will guarantee you will not get back together. She wants to be your friend so she doesn't feel guilty. She's looking out for #1


Thats why i cut ties - but its killing me.


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## Rough Patch Sewing

MSC71 said:


> Being her friend will guarantee you will not get back together. She wants to be your friend so she doesn't feel guilty. She's looking out for #1


36Separated,

This is sad but true. Do you have any close friends who can help you through this. I know that turning to the forum is a good help, but in order to get through this you may need to surround yourself with a whole slew of loving and supportive friends and family. 

You probably cannot do this by yourself because it is emotionally shattering to draw the line with your wife like this.


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## 36Separated

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> 36Separated,
> 
> This is sad but true. Do you have any close friends who can help you through this. I know that turning to the forum is a good help, but in order to get through this you may need to surround yourself with a whole slew of loving and supportive friends and family.
> 
> You probably cannot do this by yourself because it is emotionally shattering to draw the line with your wife like this.


Unfortunately i ve lost track with most my friends over the years and i have hardly any family


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## 36Separated

Latest - she texted me say she is trying to think positive about us, but doesnt know if its too late, but she will keep thinking.

????


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## MSC71

36Separated said:


> Latest - she texted me say she is trying to think positive about us, but doesnt know if its too late, but she will keep thinking.
> 
> ????


Her boyfriend dumped her maybe. Maybe they are fighting. I would tel her it's too late.


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## 36Separated

Even tho i want her back, i need to act like i dont care? or tell her get lost?


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## Mtts

Don't respond, silence is the best policy. It's a non-intervention tactic. The idea is not to respond. If you comfort her you lose. If she wants real comfort, she'll make her way back and being true apologetic reconciliation. Everything else I'm afraid is smoke and mirrors. 

36separated, just let her soak up her own misery abit. I know it sucks, but avoid her and you'll be better off. 

If you are having a tuff time coping, volunteer for a charity, animal shelter. Go to the gym and lift. It's a great stress reliever and anti-depressant. Ask a few of the guys at the office for a pitcher of beer (or should beer not be your thing) just a guys shop night. Just talking whatever but leave the relationship out of that. Try and stabalize, it's the best policy. 

Wish I was there to raise a beer to ya man, but hang in there.


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## stuckmick

36Separated said:


> Even tho i want her back, i need to act like i dont care? or tell her get lost?


F*cking. Stay. Silent. Not one word.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 36Separated

Got to see her shortly with the kids for abit - so i'll not mention anything do with us, just make sure the kids ahve a good time


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## 36Separated

Can the 180 be used after divorce? Yes to better myslef and that is the main reason as it is over, but has it ever help R


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## Dewayne76

To me, once D is final, there's no more 180. For your situation at least. You seem to want 180 to work in positive directions for R. Which is understandable.

Once D is final, it's no longer cat and mouse. Stop doing what you're dong, heal and be yourself. FIND yourself again if you have to. 

Time. Patience... all that good stuff. Use this time wisely, to better yourself. 

Just my opinion. 

I have to sign my papers tomorrow, or Fri. I'll be at a friends house all day waiting on a package. 

Stbxw stipulated "I'd rather not fix what we had, in hind sight I wasn't that happy with it. If you're going to be in my life, I'd rather it be new and better" I told her "I agree, I don't want what we had, I want better as well" She said "Sign the papers and lets see where we go from there"

In the last few days, since i removed my threads and started some serious self reflection, I can see where she was unhappy. 

I can be better. I WILL be better. May not be with her in the end, but at least I'll know my grounds when I meet someone else. 

36, life ain't over bro. WHO KNOWS what tomorrow will bring? Tomorrow, should be taken as "strides" it could be months, years... who knows. You may find someone totally better for you and think "WOW, why was I so fked up about ex?" 

Or... you know, it's possible you may find your way back together. Just as people can grow apart, people can also grow together!


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> Can the 180 be used after divorce? Yes to better myslef and that is the main reason as it is over, but has it ever help R


I cannot speak from experience. However, I have good friends who did in fact remarry after years of divorce. It took something very important that both of them needed to help each other through - only that one person had the answer for how to help the other. Their young son died in a car accident. Only he, and only she could truly help the other through the tragedy.

I don't think that a life situation has to be as tragic as that to bring a divorced couple back together again. However, both have to admit the wrongs done, the good and bad, realize the value of the good, and strive to work together to change the bad.

If there was one challenge to face together... in which she could only turn to you for help, then that could be the sort of 'cause' that could be the frame work for working it out. 

Does the 180 work. I think it can and does, if the other person is reasonable. The 180 helps you to take time to cool off and prepare the "good" and the "bad" in your mind so you know what you are fighting for. Also, it helps you not to be desperate and begging for them to return. 

I advocate having a real support system in place so you can have what it takes to really feel good about doing a 180. I think that a husband should only have to do a 180 if his wife will not reasonably listen to him after a cooling off period. 

I know that unless an estranged spouse is a total sociopath, the jolt of the 180 does bring about internal angst and reconsideration. We want those things that elude us and mysteriously change despite us.


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## 36Separated

I dont expect us to ever re-marry each other. I would just like to get to the point where we start to date again, just to see if it could work


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## Rough Patch Sewing

36Separated said:


> I dont expect us to ever re-marry each other. I would just like to get to the point where we start to date again, just to see if it could work


36Separated,

Do you have a plan for this?


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## zillard

Yes, it can work. Mostly for you, as that's what it's about. If it leads to R and you still want it, cool. If not, you are already healing and in a better spot than you would have been without doing the 180. 

I'm seeing it work as I speak. After discovery I was a complete mess. Whiny, sobby 'how could you do this to me" sloppy mess. Started the 180 plus six IC sessions in and yesterday my counselor told me how impressed he is with my progress. 

A month ago my stbxw was telling me she's no longer attracted to me, has to be drunk to want sex, I make her feel so unloved that she can't even get herself off, doesn't feel any warmth when I hug her, etc. No apologies for anything.

Since 180 she's been sending me multiple apology emails (I didn't respond), telling me I can sleep in the bed if I feel like it "for your back" (I'm not), sitting super close to me on the couch (with knee up over my leg) even during D papers review. She's been crying a lot and was visibly shaken when I changed my FB status to "It's Complicated". 

I quit drinking but haven't mentioned it and now she's drinking less. She's moving out next weekend but now wants to spend the night here Xmas eve so she can be here when kiddo wakes up Xmas morning, and asked if she can stay and cook me Xmas dinner afterward - asking me what I'd like her to cook. I told her "I like your food, but if you want to do that you have to pick the meal". 

I've bought new clothes and contacts. The other day she passed me in the hall and said, "Dam you smell good. #*$^".

D should be final right before my birthday - Valentine's Day. So yesterday I asked her if she would take the night off work to babysit kiddo so I can go out. She agreed. 

Now I got up this morning and see that she was listening to Nine Inch Nails - Closer, last night. She left it up, knowing I'd see it. lol.

She knows what she has to do if wants me to consider taking her back - prove that she's cut off contact with OM, give me her FB password (which I offered too), and change shifts so she can spend more than an hour or so a day with me and kiddo.


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## catch22gofigure

lulubelle said:


> what are the problems in your relationship? does she feel neglected or unloved? if that's the case, 180 will not help! if reccomend you read the 5 languages of love. that may help you figure out what type of love she needs. maybe try giving her space and fixing yourself, but also perform random acts of kindness. write down a list of all the things you love and apprieciate about her and put it on her drivers seat of her car. do things you know will make her happy a few times a week with no expectation of anything in return.


Im glad you stated this. I too have been thinking about implementing 180; but have been on the fence about it. My STXH says that I often ignored him. I must admit at times , I did. I am a talker big time..but in the recent loss of my mom, a near tragic accident involving my children, only seasonal work for the past few years...uhhh a sisters been at a loss for words. He says he's done, has moved out BUT contacts me morning, noon, and night. Ive been the rock for everyone my entire life. After these major events...the rock became mere pebbles and felt there was no one running to help pick up my pieces, so i shut down. I honestly feel like if 19 yrs is over, the 3 children , and all we've endured dont count. ..then to heck with it. I will survive. I do however want to at least give it a try. But I feel going 180 on someone who already feels ignored may be adding fuel to the fire :scratchhead:


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## angstire

tombaby said:


> 36, I feel your pain. I'm going through the same thing. Deep down we still love those women and they know it. We need to be unavailable, but we keep being drug back in. Even when it's long overdue and we know we need to stay away, set boundaries, but they still have a way about them. We cling to the notion of friendship because in reality we hope someday it might click. That she will be like, Oh man, you really are the man I love let's fix this.
> 
> I don't envy you. Mine wants to go the Pumpkin Patch with the kids today. I told her I wasn't sure. I want to see her, but in reality i'll just be setting myself up for another let down. letting my mind run rampant if she's acting happy or if she's sad. I know she's both, and I know she's made up her mind, so I need to distance myself. Hopefully, you'll be able to do the same.


Did she have an affair? I know a lot of guys on TAM have their wives leave due to an affair, but mine is leaving me so she can go be in control of her own life. So, she's leaving me for someone, but it's herself. I'm still seeing a lot of the same stuff. Everything was my fault, she's the victim, etc. She's a total WAW, where she's saying I didn't hear how unhappy she was, but as I think back, I've done so much for this woman and her kids (my step-kids), that her telling me she's done and pulling sh1t to make her look good for ending it and me like the bad guy just really hurts so much. And unfortunately, it rings true with so many stories on TAM. 

I'm wondering if my situation is slightly different because there was no affair, other than the one she wants to have with herself and without me. Mine might be a little different too, because this is second marriage for both of us, we have no kids together and we have children from our first marriages.

Thanks
angstire


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## Hayday

Hi as a man how did you confirm you can win your kids 3 1/2 days? I'm may be going through this soon and want my kids half the time I'm just to close to them to do every other week.


Ten_year_hubby said:


> The 180 worked great for me (so far). About 3 1/2 months ago my w told me she didn't love me after 10 years of marriage. I went through some serious emotional upheaval for about 10 days until I decided on the 180 and completely detached from her. While I was losing weight, getting fit, feeling and looking great, she escalated our conflict and made herself more and more miserable. When she finally served me with divorce papers I took the kids on a week vacation at the shore. The day after we returned, I asked my w to meet at 7AM. Then I told her we would sell the house, she could have half of everything and we would split custody at 3 1/2 days each. She argued and complained but I said I was sure I could get this and it was a precisely equal split. She went off and thought about it for 8 hours and came back saying she wanted to work things out. And that's what we're doing
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

@Hayday, welcome to TAM.

You have added your post to a thread that deals with an entirely different topic and which is four years old.

I think it would be a good idea to re-post your question in your own, new thread.


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## indiana_pilot

Where do I find info about the "180 plan" ?


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## TBT

indiana_pilot said:


> Where do I find info about the "180 plan" ?


 @indiana_pilot Here you go... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/267658-healing-heart-180-all-newbies.html


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