# Wife needs thought of another woman to become sexual



## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

First of all a little background. My wife and I have been together 17 years and married 13. We have always had a great relationship. We are best friends and we have 3 great kids. We have all the typical issues that most married people have, kid stress, work stress, money stress etc. We always work through it and our goals are in line with each other on where we are going in the future. 

Here is where the problem lies and I suppose I am just looking for advice on how to handle the situation(s). My wife is very non-effectual ever since our first child was born. She does not liked to be french kissed, kissed on the neck, ears etc. She just likes pecks. We have talked about it several times and she just says I don't like it. I completely understand a french kiss is a intimate commitment kiss and when then kids are around its not really the best time. However, she doesn't like it even in bed being intimate. She also hates contact with her breasts as well. It is really a hands off situation. She is also extremely self conscious. Our sex life was mediocre at best. We would have sex 2-3 times a month on a good month. It was very plain and involved the same positions every time. My wife really enjoys oral sex but hates giving it. She has said to me jokingly that she is a lazy lover in bed. I feel my wife suffers from a huge lack of self confidence even though I have always supported her and encouraged her in everything she does. She doesn't even take compliments well. It doesn't mean I stop giving them but when I do she just blushes and says, "Uh yeah sure". Random texts I send her would say "I think you are amazing and I love you!" with a reply back from her of "Random and thanks". It can be a very frustrating situation sometimes. Mainly because I am a VERY touch based person and need that to express my feelings. 

Here is the exception to all this. When my wife gets drunk she is a completely different person. I mean completely. She becomes a sexual dynamo and nothing is off limits.I am talking porn star type bedroom antics. I attribute it to the alcohol lowering her inhibitions and raising her self esteem. 

Now, a little more back story about our relationship and where this is going. My wife when we first started dating admitted to me and always said she had a thing for girls as well as guys. I was always ok with that and honestly it was just talk and nothing ever came of it. It was one of those things in the bedroom she would bring up and I would get excited thinking about it but nothing ever became of it. It was just fun to talk about and spiced up the bedroom. That talk quickly disappeared once our kids were born along with other bedroom antics (unless drunk). However, about 6 years ago we became great friends with a couple who had kids our kids age and they would hang out. Well one evening in bed my wife expressed a desire to have sex with the wife of the other couple. I was floored. It had been years since my wife had expressed anything like this. I was turned on but again figured it was just talk. However weeks later talk turned to reality and a slippery slope. Needless to say that couple ended up divorced and we almost did as well. My wife and I have worked everything out since that incident and all is water under the bridge and has been forgotten until recently.

Fast forward to recently. We are still very good friends with the wife of that couple and she has since remarried. We honestly haven't hung around her and her new husband much for various reasons until recently. My wife and I sex life had been mediocre as usual until the day after we had this couple over for dinner. My wife was suddenly an animal in the bed again. I didn't know how to take it. We went form sex 2-3 times a month to sex twice a day and only because the kids were around. I finally questioned my wife about it and in bed one night and she fully admitted that she wanted our friend again and that hanging around her again brought things up. She also admitted that she wants to watch me with our friend and that she would also like the husband to join in. Then she admitted that she would be willing to do anything I wanted to do as well. Well this is what got us in trouble the first time. Now, nothing has happened, the other couple has no idea my wife feels this way and at this point it is all talk on our part. I have no intention of pursuing it for fear that we would end up in the same situation as before. I have also talked to the other wife several times about everything that happened previously and she feels the same way. She does not want any friendships ruined. 

So, you can see the sticky situation. It seems like the catalyst of another woman has to be present to get my wife to become intensely sexual. Now, even with the catalyst my wife still can't take compliments and is very self-conscious. I feel that is a whole separate issue (Issues with her mother, being adopted etc.) and I am willing to work on that and always have been supportive. What I am more perplexed about is everything else and I am not sure how to handle it. I love how my wife is in the bedroom when she is like this but it also makes me feel like I am not good enough for her. I almost feel like she needs the idea of a woman there to get off. And for the responders who say I am not good enough in bed. I make sure that she has an orgasm every time we have sex. I also know my wife is extremely interested in sleeping with the other woman again. We have talked about it and she has told me so. Like I said though its all talk and I am ok with it staying there. I am just confused on how to handle what seems like a compound issue. One, the self esteem/touch issues. Two, our sex life when the thought of another woman is not there. 

Any advice would be great on this confusing situation and thanks for reading this long post.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

eranndwolff said:


> First of all a little background. My wife and I have been together 17 years and married 13. We have always had a great relationship. We are best friends and we have 3 great kids. We have all the typical issues that most married people have, kid stress, work stress, money stress etc. We always work through it and our goals are in line with each other on where we are going in the future.
> 
> Here is where the problem lies and I suppose I am just looking for advice on how to handle the situation(s). My wife is very non-effectual ever since our first child was born. She does not liked to be french kissed, kissed on the neck, ears etc. She just likes pecks. We have talked about it several times and she just says I don't like it. I completely understand a french kiss is a intimate commitment kiss and when then kids are around its not really the best time. However, she doesn't like it even in bed being intimate. She also hates contact with her breasts as well. It is really a hands off situation. She is also extremely self conscious. Our sex life was mediocre at best. We would have sex 2-3 times a month on a good month. It was very plain and involved the same positions every time. My wife really enjoys oral sex but hates giving it. She has said to me jokingly that she is a lazy lover in bed. I feel my wife suffers from a huge lack of self confidence even though I have always supported her and encouraged her in everything she does. She doesn't even take compliments well. It doesn't mean I stop giving them but when I do she just blushes and says, "Uh yeah sure". Random texts I send her would say "I think you are amazing and I love you!" with a reply back from her of "Random and thanks". It can be a very frustrating situation sometimes. Mainly because I am a VERY touch based person and need that to express my feelings.
> 
> ...


On one of my other marriage websites, there was a poster with a similar predicament.

He and his wife had a great relationship, but cookie cuttered around the sex part, that part was not really existant.

He was attempting to come to grips with canning a relationship because of the sex...

It turned out she had been a lesbian for over 10 years. She is not turned on by the male form. She is turned on and excited by the female form.

I believe their work around was he starved for so long and she allowed him a sexual partner. He mentioned like many of us, that it's not the same. That the male seeks the connection, closeness and adorations of his wife that she provides through the sexual acts.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

That's interesting and I agree with his view. If for no other reason than the complications it brings to the relationship. My wife however does like sex and she has no problem orgasming when we are intimate. We just have sex so infrequently. Honestly, for the past several years I have just blamed it on shear exhaustion. We do have three kids ranging in age form 2-11. They are a handful and require alot of time and energy between sports, school, etc. By the time they are in bed its almost our time for bed. Up until recently when I started thinking, why now all of a sudden is time or tiredness not an issue.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

eranndwolff said:


> That's interesting and I agree with his view. If for no other reason than the complications it brings to the relationship. My wife however does like sex and she has no problem orgasming when we are intimate. We just have sex so infrequently. Honestly, for the past several years I have just blamed it on shear exhaustion. We do have three kids ranging in age form 2-11. They are a handful and require alot of time and energy between sports, school, etc. By the time they are in bed its almost our time for bed. Up until recently when I started thinking, why now all of a sudden is time or tiredness not an issue.


If the only downside is the other female has to be in the room for her to really get off, but you don't have to be degraded and cheated on, it might be a tolerable situation.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Perhaps but this isn't really something that can be expressed to many people knowingly. We live in a rural community where I am guessing this isn't the norm with most couples. I have no problem with talking about it and if thats what she needs I can respect different wants and desires that turn her on. My fear is that we end up in another almost near divorce situation because of something acted upon.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

eranndwolff said:


> Honestly, for the past several years I have just blamed it on shear exhaustion.


Yet, as you mentioned, when the idea of sex with another woman comes into play, she returns to being a sexual animal.

She may not be a lesbian, but on the Kinsey scale I'm guessing she's a 5.

My friend married a nice girl who he described as "vanilla" in bed. They had two kids and about 15 years after the second kid, she left him for her female lover. Societal and family pressure told her to get married and have kids. But that wasn't who she was.

I think you to should see a marriage counselor who also has experience with sexuality issues.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Exhaustion is rarely a valid excuse for going weeks without sex. I have 2 small kids am a SAHM and run a small business and we have sex 3-4x a week! 

I really sense that she is a lesbian, or at least bi-sexual. The fact that she doesn't even want to touch you (kissing hugging) outside of the bedroom is very odd and then explodes with desire after seeing this woman.

Have you flat out asked her if she is gay?


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

FemBot said:


> Have you flat out asked her if she is gay?


We have not talked about it out of a bedroom setting, but in the heat of the moment she has fully admitted that she likes women when we talk about it. 

I have no doubt that she is bisexual, I have seen it. I have no problem with it. But there is something else there as well and that is what is confusing. She wants me to sleep with the other woman as well while she watches. This is what lead to our near divorce before. The other woman developing feelings after her divorce etc. Whole other story there. Obviously I cant be forced into doing it but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the increased attention in the bedroom from my wife. I just wish it would happen even when we aren't interacting with this couple.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

For starters, I'd be cutting the other couple out of your lives because basically your wife wants the OW and not you. Oh, she's willing to use you when she is worked up, but the passion is for the OW and not you.

The reason she's perfectly fine offering to let you have sex with the OW is because your wife doesn't value sex with you. What I mean is, she's willing to trade it away because its not of value to her. Her getting her own crack at the OW however is something she values and already she's negotiating how she can get it.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> For starters, I'd be cutting the other couple out of your lives because basically your wife wants the OW and not you. Oh, she's willing to use you when she is worked up, but the passion is for the OW and not you.
> 
> The reason she's perfectly fine offering to let you have sex with the OW is because your wife doesn't value sex with you. What I mean is, she's willing to trade it away because its not of value to her. Her getting her own crack at the OW however is something she values and already she's negotiating how she can get it.


Good point, never thought of it that way before.


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## cub!chy (May 7, 2012)

I totally agree with above, you need to cut all contact with OW and get back in the game. :lol: Get her drunk and get into her mind, ask her all your questions and get a good readout about what she wants. women love oral, give her more oral, strive for her to want you, take her out, win her again. Could this be a mid life crisis? You also need to detail what happened in your threesome? why did you agree, how did she convince you? How did she act, was it all her and the OW, were you sidelined? Why did the other couple get a divorce? Tells us more about that, so we can give advise with the entire picture. Good luck.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

So what exactly happened in the past, she cheated on you with the other woman or you cheated her?

I agree with Chris Taylor, she's bisexual with preference to women and some attraction to men but not gay, which woud be no attraction to men.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

You are making this much more complicated than it really is.

Your wife likes women. A LOT. And either she likes women much more than men, or she's just tired of men for the time being and wants something different. 

There's not much you can do about her sexuality. All the counseling and therapy in the world isn't change who or what she is attracted to.,

I understand you not wanting to break up another couple. You could consider meeting like-minded swinging couples so you don't break up another marriage. I hate to paint you in a corner, but I think other than swinging, your only other options are either to leave her or accept her rather lukewarm attraction for you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you considered watching girl-girl porn with your wife?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

That could work too. But I don't understand why you need to mess with married couples. If she is only interested in extra girl on girl action why not seek for single women who agree to a threesome with no strings attached?


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Have you considered watching girl-girl porn with your wife?


Or whatever type gets her off. Likewise with our porn use. Both of us are watching other people have sex but have no interest in doing so ourselves.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> So what exactly happened in the past, she cheated on you with the other woman or you cheated her?
> 
> I agree with Chris Taylor, she's bisexual with preference to women and some attraction to men but not gay, which woud be no attraction to men.


Thanks everyone for the advice so far,

So the background on the other couple is complicated. I had been laid off and became depressed looking for another job. During that time is when we met this other couple. This couple it turns out were swingers but the husband of the other couple was also sleeping with several other women behind his wifes back and they had other issues that were present long before they met us. They were doomed for divorce long before we showed up. I know that this is the typical excuse of the wrong doing party but it's very true in this case. I will admit we were the catalyst however. As it turns out the other wife made an advance at my wife who accepted and this in turn led to a threesome. Back story some more, during the threesome the other husband was off with one of his other women. So you can see the giant pile of issues here already. Well he obviously found out about the threesome and used that as his excuse to divorce his wife. Unfortunately, during the divorce the OW clung to my wife and I for support and we continued to have threesomes for several months until it became clear that the OW had very strong feelings towards me. However, during those threesomes my wife only participated half the time. The other half she was content to watch me with the OW. Even going so far as to encourage alone time for the OW and I without her present. I found this very strange and uncomfortable. For me it was just fun and I wanted my wife included. The OW started sending me texts and messages which were obviously attachment feelings. At that point I should have called it off and didn't, I honestly was wrapped up in the moment. I felt sorry for the OW and felt sort of responsible for her divorce. So I began to hide things and was being subversive and telling little white lies to my wife in order to hide the feelings of the OW. This obviously back fired and I realize I should have just told my wife everything but I didn't. Well she eventually found out the feelings of the OW and the lies etc. So to spite me and the OW she slept with the OH. We nearly got divorced over it but worked things out over time. 

SO thats the back story of the previous issues. Now some notes to that as well. The infrequent sex started before this threesome. My wife is not one to talk about her feelings to others. If she has a problem with someone or something she says it, she does not bottle up anything. 

Also and not sure how many people subscribe to the 5 Love Languages thing but I am a 12 in the Personal Touch category and she is a 1. Her main LL is Acts of Service with a 10. 

I do also know that we were both raised in VERY strict Christian households and are both now not affiliated with Christianity anymore in a strict sense of the word. I wouldn't go so far as to call us atheists but I would say I am close. I do know that my wife struggled with guilt during the threesome and kept saying she didn't want to become a bad person etc. Also she is adopted and I feel she holds a great deal of abandonment issues inside. But like I said she will air her problems except for this one. She does not ever talk about this. Not even to me and I have tried. Also, her parents are VERY overbearing particularly her adoptive mother. Nothing is ever good enough to please her and this is honestly the only time I see my wife cry is when her mother rudely disapproves of something. 

So that's that and I hope that clears up a little more of the back story.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Or whatever type gets her off. Likewise with our porn use. Both of us are watching other people have sex but have no interest in doing so ourselves.


Yes we have watched porn in the past. This however is that guilt area I talked about in the previous post. I think porn makes her feel like she is doing something wrong. Some times we will talk about it and she is all into it and other times she seems offended that I even bring up the subject.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

eranndwolff said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice so far,
> 
> So the background on the other couple is complicated. I had been laid off and became depressed looking for another job. During that time is when we met this other couple. This couple it turns out were swingers but the husband of the other couple was also sleeping with several other women behind his wifes back and they had other issues that were present long before they met us. They were doomed for divorce long before we showed up. I know that this is the typical excuse of the wrong doing party but it's very true in this case. I will admit we were the catalyst however. As it turns out the other wife made an advance at my wife who accepted and this in turn led to a threesome. Back story some more, during the threesome the other husband was off with one of his other women. So you can see the giant pile of issues here already. Well he obviously found out about the threesome and used that as his excuse to divorce his wife. Unfortunately, during the divorce the OW clung to my wife and I for support and we continued to have threesomes for several months until it became clear that the OW had very strong feelings towards me. However, during those threesomes my wife only participated half the time. The other half she was content to watch me with the OW. Even going so far as to encourage alone time for the OW and I without her present. I found this very strange and uncomfortable. For me it was just fun and I wanted my wife included. The OW started sending me texts and messages which were obviously attachment feelings. At that point I should have called it off and didn't, I honestly was wrapped up in the moment. I felt sorry for the OW and felt sort of responsible for her divorce. So I began to hide things and was being subversive and telling little white lies to my wife in order to hide the feelings of the OW. This obviously back fired and I realize I should have just told my wife everything but I didn't. Well she eventually found out the feelings of the OW and the lies etc. So to spite me and the OW she slept with the OH. We nearly got divorced over it but worked things out over time.
> 
> ...


So it was you who cheated then. I believe your wife encouraging you going alone with the OW was a sh!t test which you failed.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> So it was you who cheated then. I believe your wife encouraging you going alone with the OW was a sh!t test which you failed.


Yes I cheated in the sense that I hid things from my wife and told lies. I never however did anything with the OW that my wife was not present at and I never reciprocated the emotions the OW was showing me back. My wife tried to convince me to sleep with the OW alone telling me it turned her on. I thought that was strange and went beyond the whole threesome fun thing.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Red flag - your wife telling you to go off in private with the OW and have sex.

Gotta ask any way your wife has possibly been having an affair herself? Even possibly with the OW?

Cause something does not add up here.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Your wife would not be the first latent lesbian who has a comfortable life with a husband - but is not willing to come out of the closet or leave the security of her marriage. I have known several women like that.

One of them has a female "friend" and her husband is so desperate not to lose her that he tolerates it. This "friend" divorced her husband of 7 years to facilitate this friendship. 

Of course I'm speculating, but perhaps your wife is simply a frustrated lesbian who is looking for sexual outlets to cope - but is not yet ready to leave her marriage. But that could change.

If so, I'm not sure there is a solution, short of an open marriage or your willingness to tolerate with her coping mechanisms.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Red flag - your wife telling you to go off in private with the OW and have sex.
> 
> Gotta ask any way your wife has possibly been having an affair herself? Even possibly with the OW?
> 
> Cause something does not add up here.


As it turns out in that past situation it was revealed in MCthat she did have an attraction to the OH. Essentially she used me "cheating" as her excuse to sleep with him to spite me. However, the attraction to the OH started as a result of my depression over losing my job. I will fully attest to that. The first three months of looking for a job I was a miserable person.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Your wife would not be the first latent lesbian who has a comfortable life with a husband - but is not willing to come out of the closet or leave the security of her marriage. I have known several women like that.
> 
> One of them has a female "friend" and her husband is so desperate not to lose her that he tolerates it. This "friend" divorced her husband of 7 years to facilitate this friendship.
> 
> ...


She cheated the OP with a man so no, she is definitely not a lesbian. More likely she's bisexual or bicurious.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

I'll be honest however. I generally blame the lack of frequent sex on my having "Nice Guy Syndrome". If you haven't read the Dr. Blake book, well I am the poster child for it. I have 75% of the symptoms and the toxic shame etc. Which in looking back on the situation years ago lead me to the white lies and feeling sorry for the OW.

My wife is very liberal (obviously) but I am not an assertive person and don't like to make waves. All our chores are 50/50 and we help each other with everything. Here is the thing though, my grew up in a very old school household. Dad works 8-10 hours as a truck driver, comes home and expects dinner on the table and the house to be spotless, laundry pressed and folded. My in-laws could be transplanted straight back to the 50's suburbia and not even miss a beat. My wife is not like that at all. However, I am NOTHING like her father either. 

I know I need to be more assertive and I am working on that. I just recently (as in 3 weeks ago) started reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and am starting to put it into practice.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

eranndwolff said:


> I'll be honest however. I generally blame the lack of frequent sex on my having "Nice Guy Syndrome". If you haven't read the Dr. Blake book, well I am the poster child for it. I have 75% of the symptoms and the toxic shame etc. Which in looking back on the situation years ago lead me to the white lies and feeling sorry for the OW.
> 
> My wife is very liberal (obviously) but I am not an assertive person and don't like to make waves. All our chores are 50/50 and we help each other with everything. Here is the thing though, my grew up in a very old school household. Dad works 8-10 hours as a truck driver, comes home and expects dinner on the table and the house to be spotless, laundry pressed and folded. My in-laws could be transplanted straight back to the 50's suburbia and not even miss a beat. My wife is not like that at all. However, I am NOTHING like her father either.
> 
> I know I need to be more assertive and I am working on that. I just recently (as in 3 weeks ago) started reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and am starting to put it into practice.


Thing about it - is there are WOMEN who will appreciate and uphold a man like you. All of them don't need the man to be the Alpha or the "boss". So before changing yourself, and self improvement is not a bad thing, maybe you need to reflect that your choice of relationship partner may have been wrong...

Also, a woman can be perfectly happy with what she has. When she start going the cheating way, she will cheat with the opposite.

So if you are Alpha - she will cheat with a nice guy, not a more Alpha.

And if you are a nice guy, she will cheat with an Alpha.


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## anchorman (Mar 21, 2013)

Wow, it is amazing how similar your story is to mine. I wish I had answers but right now I don't. I'm sorry you are in this spot.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Thing about it - is there are WOMEN who will appreciate and uphold a man like you. All of them don't need the man to be the Alpha or the "boss". So before changing yourself, and self improvement is not a bad thing, maybe you need to reflect that your choice of relationship partner may have been wrong...
> 
> Also, a woman can be perfectly happy with what she has. When she start going the cheating way, she will cheat with the opposite.
> 
> ...


I don't want to go down the road of cheating though. I don't think that is an issue and I don't want to make it one for her or I. We went down that road before and worked it out well. The reason for the other attraction previously was two fold. One, I was being a complete ass and in a depressive funk. Two, the OH in this situation was a complete slime bag and portrayed the role of the broken and beaten man in a thankless loveless marriage and my wife fell for the puppy dog routine hook, line and sinker. My wife is easily swayed by hard luck stories which makes her a very loving mother and friend but sometimes very over trusting of others. Our married life is great otherwise and I don't think that she is thinking of cheating AT ALL. What my original dilemma was is I am wondering why we have infrequent sex until we started hanging around the OW and her new husband again. Let me also state that during the times when she was a dynamo she never mentioned the new husband at all only the wife. She also kept asking me what I wanted to do to her and what I wanted her to do to her. And honestly I have no issue with having fun like that. What I suppose my issue is, is why does it take that stimulus to get my wife to be the dynamo. Why doesn't it happen any other time.


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## eranndwolff (Jul 1, 2013)

anchorman said:


> Wow, it is amazing how similar your story is to mine. I wish I had answers but right now I don't. I'm sorry you are in this spot.


Thats funny because I honestly never would have thought many people would have a story like mine. I have shared this story with my closest friends and brother and they have all just looked at me slack jawed till I was done and simply said, "Shut the hell up!!" "You're making this up!!"


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