# Question to the cheaters..



## SadSadGirl (Jun 13, 2013)

I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..

1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.

2) During the whole affair, im sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?

3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?

4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?

5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?

6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel? 

7) Would you have an affair again?

I request the BS to not answer the questions with they're selfish, they're entitled, they're narcissists.. i dont disagree with you. But I really wanted to get a grasp of what really goes through the mind of a cheater when they cheat.. Thank you in advance.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

SadSadGirl said:


> ............But I really wanted to get a grasp of what really goes through the mind of a cheater when they cheat.. Thank you in advance.


Good luck with that!



Been trying to get those exact same questions answered since d-day. Though I truly believe my WW is being truthful to the best of her ability, I still get "l don't know" and "I can't remember" to those kind of questions. And yes I truly believe that they can compartmentalize to the point of almost complete separation. Which explains why they can't remember or explain anything maybe. 

Of course the answer to the last question has been a resounding and tearful no, and a no for would she do it all over again if she could go back. So I press on. Would be very interested in any answers you get.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..
> 
> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.
> 
> ...


I am the betrayed but I can give you the answers my ex gave:

1) No. One cannot betray faith & trust and still love that person. 
2) Because it was exciting and addictive.
3) Sure. But I didn't care. I had an addiction to feed.
4) Not really. 
5) Didn't matter.
6) My ex gave me a smirk as she was loving the hell out of it all.
7) Sure! All addicts will. My ex had 3 I know of. She stopped after I left as she lost the ability to feed her addiction.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

I've been on both sides of this previously in life. I will answer as best as I can:



SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..
> 
> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.


A cheater can cheat on anyone. They may "love" the person, but they believe in their ability to not get caught, it's a huge challenge and rush if you can pull it off I guess. Someone in a cheaters mindset may think everyone else is cheaters too. So just because they cheated on you, doesn't mean they never loved you. But they obviously never loved you enough to NOT cheat on you.



SadSadGirl said:


> 2) During the whole affair, im sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?


I got to a point of no return in my affairs. It was where time and priority in the affair overwelmed the primary relationship. You don't stop because you "feel" stuck. You feel like the new relationship is love.



SadSadGirl said:


> 3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?


Sure you feel guilt. But I have a guilty conscious. There are individuals who exist who have no conscious, I was not one of them. So cheating while it gave a high and rush of controlling the frames and the alternate life had a downside of feeling like crap when you know your cheating on the one who you love. 



SadSadGirl said:


> 4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?


When I was doing the cheating, I did it under the guise of guys night out, it would be one night standers or little deals with female friends and you go home, happy to be home and you love your wife. But you also love yourself and the "power" of being able to pull it off. Makes you feel like a desired man.



SadSadGirl said:


> 5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?


When you start up affairs, by nature it is a double life. The only way it's not a double life is if you are fully transparent to your spouse about what's going on. When I was doing this, i would be focused in the moment for who I was with. However in time alone you would reflect on the other one and feel guilty or bad. But I have a conscious.



SadSadGirl said:


> 6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel?


Told on myself, but others new. I felt like it was for the best, I got tired of hurting my wife at the time like this. I knew it was hurting her, all the lies and cheating and not being home. At the time I felt like I could not stop, that my real love was my affair partner.



SadSadGirl said:


> 7) Would you have an affair again?


Personally I would not have an affair again. I learned an air tite relationship is the most pleasureable, you know complete honesty and faithfullness. I don't want to hurt anyone like that again. Also I don't want to make what's bad look good to others...



SadSadGirl said:


> I request the BS to not answer the questions with they're selfish, they're entitled, they're narcissists.. i dont disagree with you. But I really wanted to get a grasp of what really goes through the mind of a cheater when they cheat.. Thank you in advance.


I've built up my narcissist side, and I've also built up a transparent side and also a humble one. People go through phases, there are some true and true narcissist in this world who never leave that frame. You can't do anything for these types, because your literally hurting yourself. 

I hope all that I been through, would make people to take care of the relationships that they have and to treat their significant others like every day could be their last. There really is no good reason in this world to hide things from your spouse unless it is a surprise which is going to help them out.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I really, truly did not realise or understand that I was having an affair until the moment I found myself about to have sex with my OW.

Then it all came crashing down on me and my fog was lifted in a matter of seconds. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Did I still love my wife? Yes, very much. But I felt so angry with her for cheating on me -but I had hidden the anger from myself- that I found myself in two minds, literally.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> *I really, truly did not realise or understand that I was having an affair until the moment I found myself about to have sex with my OW*.
> 
> Then it all came crashing down on me and my fog was lifted in a matter of seconds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> ...


IF you thought you were really just friends up to that point, then your input migth be useful on this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...other-look-opposite-sex-friends-marriage.html


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I don't respond to these threads anymore. Even if the OP is legitimately seeking answers, too quickly it becomes a game of 'abuse the cheater cause I hate my ex' by other BBS (bitter betrayed spouses)

Hope someone else gives you the closure you seek, but most cheaters have fled the site or also learned the same lesson. The BS don't like the answers they hear.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

JCD said:


> I don't respond to these threads anymore. Even if the OP is legitimately seeking answers, too quickly it becomes a game of 'abuse the cheater cause I hate my ex' by other BBS (bitter betrayed spouses)
> 
> Hope someone else gives you the closure you seek, but most cheaters have fled the site or also learned the same lesson. The BS don't like the answers they hear.


What a shame - I'm a BS and really interested in the answers people submit. Come on cheaters, no kidding, if you are reading pls reply to this. If you get some stick brush it aside, you've probably heard it all before anyway. Come on - fire up!


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..
> 
> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.
> 
> ...



After nearly 27 years of marriage I had a 15 month EA/PA with an old flame from my teen years. I can only answer for myself and I have found that my answers do not appear to reflect some of the more typical responses given by many of the other WW's posting on TAM. Like JCD, I have grown weary of responding to these types of threads because no matter how sincere and genuine the OP's intent is to gain a greater understanding of what a WS may or may not have been thinking during their affair, there are simply too many hurting and bitter BS's here who are unwilling to let the WS's speak (even when asked) without projecting their anger over their own broken relationships onto them. Although I sympathize with anyone who is hurting over the betrayal of infidelity, I am not here to be their whipping post. I am here to learn and grow and if I can help anyone else along the way then that's even better.

To give you a small bit of background, my husband suffered from depression and low Testosterone for many years. Even after being diagnosed, he did not continue to follow through with treatment and we lived in what had become a sexless marriage devoid of emotional and physical intimacy. We had become hostile room mates. I did not choose the honorable route of divorce because financially we could not afford to live separately and because we have five children, 3 still at home, including a 23 year old special needs son who is both mentally and physically handicapped. I tried everything I could possibly think of, short of setting myself on fire, to work on myself and our marriage. I could not, however, force my husband to be a part of that process. He told me to accept our life as it was. I said that I could not. When I could no longer bear the rejection, the loneliness and the isolation I had an affair. I did not believe that he loved me and I had slowly come to realize that I no longer loved him. 

1. I could not cheat on someone that I love and could not live without. I was no longer in love with my husband prior to or during my affair.

2. I knew I was going to cross the line even before I crossed the line. I was literally starving for attention, affection, touch and an emotional and a physical connection. Once the affair began I had no desire for it to stop.

3. I did feel guilt during the affair, but it was because I was heartbroken that my children no longer had parents who loved one another. The guilt was over the fact that our children and future grandchildren would not have the traditional family that I always hoped and dreamed they would have. I had promised my children when they were very young that they would always have a mom and dad who loved them and who loved one another. 

4. Yes, there were times when I thought that I should stop the affair. But, it wasn't because I thought that my marriage could be saved. I am a Christian and I was, obviously, suffering spiritually. I knew that I could not reconcile my actions with my faith. I desperately wanted to be happy, healthy, and whole. I also knew that what I was doing was in direct opposition of everything that my husband and I had, both, raised our children to believe. I knew that I had failed in my example as a parent. I began to hope that my children would never know the full extent of my betrayal or that they would somehow understand. This is where the foggy thinking comes into play. You rationalize, justify and compartmentalize. When you can no longer look at yourself in the mirror without a lingering cloud of sadness and shame, you begin to live a life of your own self-imposed torment. You know that you have become a fraud.

5. There is definitely a feeling of living a double life. You begin to avoid being in situations and around people that you don't want to know your secret. It leaves you feeling so..... for lack of better words "less than." But, in my life, I had already become so isolated, anyway. As a stay at home parent with a special needs child it can be very difficult to get out much anyway. When I was with my AP, I was able to leave all of my cares behind for a while. I was cognizant of my burdens, but for a few hours I could put them on the back burner. It was an escape, not based in reality. I do know that now. My spouse and I were living and had been living separate lives since before my affair began. We had not been emotionally or physically intimate since before the affair began. So, I wasn't really spending time with him, anyway. We lived in the same home, but we didn't sleep in the same bed. We shared a home and children, but little else. My AP was on my mind constantly.

I think the last two questions are the most important, at least for me, they are. I will get back to them later. I need to get back to the real world for a while. Today is Father's Day! I will be spending it with my husband, the father of my five precious children, our son-in-law, grandson, our sons' girlfriends, my in-laws and some family friends. 

Our story has a happy ending! We are one year into reconciliation. Sometimes miracles do happen! I never intended to get sucked into another one of these types of threads, but Horizon's plea touched my heart. 

We are not "settling" for mediocrity! We have both dug deep and have rediscovered the tiny ember of life that was left in the ashes of our old marriage. We're blooming and we're very happy!

I will get back to the last two questions later! Good luck to you and yours!

~EI


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

EI said:


> After nearly 27 years of marriage I had a 15 month EA/PA with an old flame from my teen years. I can only answer for myself and I have found that my answers do not appear to reflect some of the more typical responses given by many of the other WW's posting on TAM. Like JCD, I have grown weary of responding to these types of threads because no matter how sincere and genuine the OP's intent is to gain a greater understanding of what a WS may or may not have been thinking during their affair, there are simply too many hurting and bitter BS's here who are unwilling to let the WS's speak (even when asked) without projecting their anger over their own broken relationships onto them. Although I sympathize with anyone who is hurting over the betrayal of infidelity, I am not here to be their whipping post. I am here to learn and grow and if I can help anyone else along the way then that's even better.
> 
> To give you a small bit of background, my husband suffered from depression and low Testosterone for many years. Even after being diagnosed, he did not continue to follow through with treatment and we lived in what had become a sexless marriage devoid of emotional and physical intimacy. We had become hostile room mates. I did not choose the honorable route of divorce because financially we could not afford to live separately and because we have five children, 3 still at home, including a 23 year old special needs son who is both mentally and physically handicapped. I tried everything I could possibly think of, short of setting myself on fire, to work on myself and our marriage. I could not, however, force my husband to be a part of that process. He told me to accept our life as it was. I said that I could not. When I could no longer bear the rejection, the loneliness and the isolation I had an affair. I did not believe that he loved me and I had slowly come to realize that I no longer loved him.
> 
> ...


EI, _I am not here to bash you_, but your post is so striking to me I want to say something... Maybe it's just more of therapy for me, I don't know...

When I read posts like this (and few betrayers are seemingly so open- so kudos to you) I always wonder what their spouse agrees with the assessment of them. In reading your post it seems like your reasons for betrayal are 100% his fault and you were the saint of the marriage and although you take full accountability for your actions, you seem justify the betrayal fully in a sense (and in a way you don't). 

But here's the rub... If you indeed tried "everything " and nothing worked, how is it betraying him and your kids saved the marriage? This is NOT intended to rip you, but it seems to me that if he saw the light only after your lengthy betrayal, I have such a hard time thinking he couldn't have before it all. It just doesn't add up to me.

Again, no offense is intended to you (honestly!) but it's like a math equation that the answer seems off. 

But I thank you for your response and look forward to the rest of it. And I apologize for butting into the thread like this but I just cannot get my arms around some of the these things.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> EI, _I am not here to bash you_, but your post is so striking to me I want to say something... Maybe it's just more of therapy for me, I don't know...
> 
> When I read posts like this (and few betrayers are seemingly so open- so kudos to you) I always wonder what their spouse agrees with the assessment of them. In reading your post it seems like your reasons for betrayal are 100% his fault and you were the saint of the marriage and although you take full accountability for your actions, you seem justify the betrayal fully in a sense (and in a way you don't).
> 
> ...


B1 has, several times, agreed wholeheartedly with EI's description of their marriage and of his own actions and lack of actions. 

I think that may be the key to their success. Each has owned up to their own stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

I will come back later, if not today, then tomorrow, and answer the last 2 questions and respond to you, bpguy. But, I can't right now, I'm playing beat the clock. I don't mind having this dialogue as long as we can have it respectfully. My emotional reserves are best spent strengthening my marriage and my family. 

I know that our story does not fit your "script" for WS's and infidelity, but it is still our story, nonetheless. My husband, B1 (on TAM) is the OP of a very large thread in CWI called _Reconciliation_. We have posted there, for the last year, together, in real time as our reconciliation occurs. We have recently begun spending less time on TAM and more time enjoying our new, improved and very fulfilling marriage. 

I'm quite certain that I have not portrayed myself as a saint. I have very honestly shared my flaws and weaknesses with those who have followed my story. I've suffered and continue to struggle mightily over my choices during that period of time in my life. 

And, although it doesn't follow your carefully worded script, which I have read, not every WS is the devil and not every BS is a saint. With that having been said, my husband and I were neither. We were both hurting, struggling, individuals, who were ill equipped, at the time, to cope with all that we were dealing with in our very complicated and burden filled life.


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## it is what it is (Jun 13, 2012)

Married 20 years, one long term affair only, questions answered from a wayward/walkaway wife's perspective.

*1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.
*

First, I feel there are different types of cheaters, there are serial cheaters who just can’t help it and get off on the thrill who probably love their spouses.

I was not one of those, I checked out of my sexless marriage and was in a long time E turned PA with the same person for 2 years.

I didn’t love my spouse anymore. If I truly loved someone I would not cheat just to cheat.

*2) During the whole affair, im sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?*

My affair was with a long time friend where through some emails we found out neither of us were happy in our marriages, both of us were sexless, but had not really known that until our emails turned into an emotional affair, we then started flirting, sending explicit photos of each other and planned on our meeting to start a physical affair, but with no commitment to go through with it, knowing one of us may back out last minute due to guilt towards our spouses, but we didn’t. (he had been married 30 years, sexless for 7 years, off and on MC for years with his wife and did have 2 previous affairs in his 30 years)

*3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?*

I did not feel guilt during the act or towards hurting my husband(I was mentally checked out and didn't care), but had more quilt/worry about my AP’s wife and her finding out and hurting her. I have remorse/guilt for hurting people, but no regrets.

*4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?* 

Yes, but couldn’t, it was addictive, it was the most passionate amazing sexual relationship I have ever had and we loved each other. I have not seen him in a year and half and still have the same feelings for him, it was not “fog”. I still think about, want, and miss him every day.

*5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?*

I did not think about my spouse at all, we are/were roomates – I came home and thought about my AP and couldn’t wait to see him again. I was not having sex with my spouse at the same time or pretended to love him, etc. I tried one more time to initiate sex with him before I went through with the physical affair and he rejected me…again. I was in a sexless marriage with a low drive/possibly low testosterone husband with also zero communication about it or our relationship/marriage of 17 years.

*6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel?* 

I felt horrible for hurting him, he did not deserve it, best Dad ever to our kids, great provider for our family, etc. I got drunk one night/fell asleep in my daughters room and my husband found the emails to my AP, he went to a MC without me and knew about my affair for a week before telling me he knew. I felt it was strange he did not flip out on me right away, almost like he didn’t care anyway. He said he didn’t want to scare me away even further. He was willing to forgive me and wanted to reconcile, but he was really hurt that I did not just start saying how sorry I was/pleading for him to forgive me/begging him to take me back. I felt relieved he found out and everything was on the table/out in the open now. He has done the 180 on me and it has not helped our relationship at all, it is still the same. We are in it for the kids.

*7) Would you have an affair again?* 

After he told me he knew, he asked me to go to MC with him, so we went to a few sessions, I was very honest and up front with the MC and husband in the room, and it was clear that I was a walk away spouse, I checked out of the marriage, I did not love him anymore, I would not restart over and marry him again tomorrow if asked. We stopped going to MC and I continued the affair behind his back with the same person for another year while he did the 180 on me. He never asked for details and we never talked about my relationship with my AP, not sure if he just didn’t want to mentally visualize it or not.

I did eventually stop seeing my AP, I have not seen him in a year and half, we still email once in a while to catch up. I still live at home, separated/sleeping in separate rooms, co-parenting our kids. We have not agreed to an open marriage, we still don’t communicate. I would not cheat on him again after the turmoil it caused in my head and hurt it caused him. We need to divorce, but we don’t talk about it. Not sure if it’s due to the kids or finances or him saying when he married he married for life and not willing to get out of a stale sexless marriage. I am not sure why he tolerates it honestly, sounds like he needs to read No More Mr Nice Guy. I wish he would just freaking open up and tell me what the hell he is thinking and wants to do. He holds SO much in to the point he is just socially awkward to even talk to.

I will not have an affair again now that the one and only one I had is over, I will get out of this disfunctional marriage first.

----------------------------------------

I answered the above questions 100% honestly, I am very sorry you are going through what you are going through SadSadGirl. I doubt these answers will help folks much, it will probably just make them more angry and stir up ugly responses towards us coward selfish cheaters who replied to your request. Every act of betrayal, I feel, is under different circumstances that no one will truly understand except the couple going through it/person that did it, etc. I am not saying it is right obviously, but the judgmental attacks from hurting BS's are annoying and the reason cheaters do not post here much.

I feel our situation was lack of communication, build up of resentment from me towards my husband for continually being rejected and him being a classic submissive Mr Nice Guy. We never fought, and both avoided any conflict whatsoever, I feel we never were able to be open and/or honest due to being afraid of hurting the other’s feelings, which is the worst thing EVER for a relationship. We were both at fault for our failed relationship, but I took the coward route and in return ended up hurting him in the worst possible way and I do feel like $hit for it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EI said:


> I will come back later, if not today, then tomorrow, and answer the last 2 questions and respond to you, bpguy. But, I can't right now, I'm playing beat the clock. I don't mind having this dialogue as long as we can have it respectfully. My emotional reserves are best spent strengthening my marriage and my family.
> 
> I know that our story does not fit your "script" for WS's and infidelity, but it is still our story, nonetheless. My husband, B1 (on TAM) is the OP of a very large thread in CWI called _Reconciliation_. We have posted there, for the last year, together, in real time as our reconciliation occurs. We have recently begun spending less time on TAM and more time enjoying our new, improved and very fulfilling marriage.
> 
> ...


Not every WS is the devil, but SOME are! Some WS do not care at all about the BS and some of the actions are even designed to impart pain into the BS and allow the WS to feel "empowered".


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Not every WS is the devil, but SOME are! Some WS do not care at all about the BS and some of the actions are even designed to impart pain into the BS and allow the WS to feel "empowered".


Seems also that some BSs can become the devil. Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels prior to his fall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> Seems also that some BSs can become the devil. Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels prior to his fall.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lucifer was a BS? I didn't know that part.

Some people thinks beautiful is inherently "evil" or "bad" and rich is "evil" or "bad"... Sometimes the ugliest is the plain and most evil, and some beauty on the outside means beauty on the inside...


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I've held back in responding since previous similar threads have resulting in a lot of bashing, some warnings and even some folks being banned. I'll respond later with detailed answers in the interest if helping.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> B1 has, several times, agreed wholeheartedly with EI's description of their marriage and of his own actions and lack of actions.
> 
> I think that may be the key to their success. Each has owned up to their own stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then my apologies to EI. I didn't know.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

JCD said:


> I don't respond to these threads anymore. Even if the OP is legitimately seeking answers, too quickly it becomes a game of 'abuse the cheater cause I hate my ex' by other BBS (bitter betrayed spouses)
> 
> Hope someone else gives you the closure you seek, but most cheaters have fled the site or also learned the same lesson. The BS don't like the answers they hear.


Okay I'll bite here

Two things 

1/ I think it's become mythology on here that every single WW spouse that opens up a thread gets run off into the hills to slit their wrists. I rarely see that and often if and when it happens they sometimes deserve it.

I've recently seen a a few threads where many of us BS patiently and strongly disagree but have our say and leave it at that. I don't see many of these infamous threads that a few people keep bashing on about . I think that's generally not the case 

2/ "The BS don't like the answers they hear" - What answers are these then?

Personally if any thread like this is getting a bit intense I tend to stay out of it even though I strongly disagree with most of what a WW has to say especially their legitimizations and justifications but I have notice many others who feel that stay in and put their feeling across hard but fair


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

The question is not understood nor answered. What happens is there is a failure to communicate. Part in how a BS asks the question. Part in how the WS answers.

The real issue is the request for R. If I read the OP correctly the questions start with the WS loves the BS and can not live without her. So if that is the case how can the following happen,

These are questions that every BS has and every WS should be able to answer if they want the M to continue.

If any answers are I do not know or I do not remember, failure is in the future, It is only a matter of time.

At the same time the BS most look inside as well as there are often failures on their part that also will mean the end of the M.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Lucifer was a BS? I didn't know that part.
> 
> Some people thinks beautiful is inherently "evil" or "bad" and rich is "evil" or "bad"... Sometimes the ugliest is the plain and most evil, and some beauty on the outside means beauty on the inside...


Saint turned to sinner. Jealous anger, sense of betrayal. I'd say it's not too dissimilar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

My wife is sitting next to me right now. She does not like to read this forum at all, she's says it's a trigger for her, and I respect that. But she has agreed to give a short answer to these questions. I'll ask and she'll answer, I told her to respond as if she was speaking to someone else, not me.



SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..
> 
> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment
> 
> ...


I believe her, although I still have issues with some of her answers and by no means is this the whole story, but those are her answers, the short version, so take them for what they are worth.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

EI said:


> 1. I could not cheat on someone that I love and could not live without. I was no longer in love with my husband prior to or during my affair.
> 
> 2. I knew I was going to cross the line even before I crossed the line. I was literally starving for attention, affection, touch and an emotional and a physical connection. Once the affair began I had no desire for it to stop.


EI description is dead on the money. It may give solace to some BS's to believe the cheater still love their spouse (in a romantic sense) but from my experience, that is not the case. During my years as a womanizer, I only met one woman who was still in love with her husband and my involvement was arranged by him. (because of a medical condition that was fixed and the arrangement ended.) 
You're simply not going to find a cheater that's crazy in love with their spouse. That is true many men in general but especially true of women.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> EI description is dead on the money. It may give solace to some BS's to believe the cheater still love their spouse (in a romantic sense) but from my experience, that is not the case. During my years as a womanizer, I only met one woman who was still in love with her husband and my involvement was arranged by him. (because of a medical condition that was fixed and the arrangement ended.)
> You're simply not going to find a cheater that's crazy in love with their spouse. That is true many men in general but especially true of women.


I think this is the post you need to pay closest attention to. Especially the 2nd to last sentence. And some people just don't know how to love. Not fully and totally. I am worried that this is the case with your man and that you are falling for his continual 'sorry's'. No one cheats that far into a new relationship who is head over heels in love. 

I think your questions should be worded differently to see if there is anyone out there who does fit the description of yours (and my) situation. E.g. 'Has anyone cheated for nearly a full year into a new relationship and been totally in love with new partner but just made a silly mistake'? and take your questions from that standpoint. You will get a more accurate response.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Sadgirl, I think the answers to what you seek will not be found on this thread. I completely understand you asking them. I was the same after DD, I wanted to know the why's, and I wanted to know if there was any point whatsoever in believing my man's sorry's and excuses and so on. The pain was intense, and the confusion all consuming. I just wanted to understand. And he wasn't helping me (big red flag). But, he was the MOST perfect bf in every other way. He saw to every single one of my needs if you put aside the infidelity. Funny, helpful, same interests, did so much together, affectionate, great sex....totally perfect in absolutely every way....except that! His few flaws were the most fundamental ones. And so it could not and would not last. I am still trying my best to hold out and stay firm. Very difficult. And much much heartache in the process. Now I am hardened to him in many ways. I am a different person. I just hope to god that this experience doesn't ruin all following relationships with my suspicion and disbelief....but I am hopeful. I am hoping my intuition and knowledge of flags and flaws will help me through. I hope I am not hardened to all men now.

The thing is, I don't think you will find a Wayward that is like your man here. They don't come to places like these. These are the places that people come to who seek help, understanding of actions, and answers to what the f is going on. I am not sure your man is one of those....the reason I say that is due to the circumstances you have shared so far. 

The answers/stories that are being told here are very far removed from your situation. And told by very different cheaters. Cheaters that are in long, loveless, sexless marriages, ones that no longer cared because they wanted out anyway. 

The only answers that seem to give any insight to the problems you face are from Treyvion (and the phoenix?). He was obviously someone who cheated as a way of life, but the reason he is now here is because he is not that person anymore. Some people change. BUT don't use this as a reason to R, this is not your green light! There is much you would have to do (give him consequences), and that he would have to do (accepting wholeheartedly the consequences and doing ALL the effort to make his mess better) to ensure that this change in him happens and is not just meaningless waffle.

It is clear you are wavering on your stance of NC, and when someone feeds you all you want/need to hear, it is difficult to stay firm. And it is easy to start questioning your decisions. It is up to you if you choose to R with this man, but to do so would be very very risky. He has already shown you what he is capable of. This will never go away and will always be in the background. Do you want that for a future? And a future with children involved and far more pressure, chores, everyday life and distance within the relationship? Is this someone you could rely on even when things have been bad for several years? 

If you do choose to give him a second chance there are certain things that you can ask of him that will give you peace of mind and help you get over it. But asking these things and assessing his response will also help you to see if he is genuine about his remorse and his wishes to do absolutely anything to get you back. It will help you see if what he says are just words, or are real. You can find out those things here if you so wish....there is a to do list. And it is practically the same in all cases of infidelity. And they work!

If you choose to give him another chance I suggest you start a thread on 'How do I R with my cheater bf?'. This title will ensure it gets read by many posters. And you will get lots of advice and input rather than just a bit here and there, and then the thread dying. It will probably start off with many posters saying don't do it, run while you can, don't R because all you are doing is setting yourself up for more heartache (which I would totally agree with), but then the advice you seek will also come. What to ask for, for your own sanity and well being, and what to look for. In his words and actions. People here will talk you through a successful R (if of course he is receptive to one) if that is the path you wish to take, and they will show you when things don't add up. The responses will bring you objectivity. It is impossible to keep objectivity I think when you are immersed in the situation.

I truly recommend not to R though.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..


I'll answer and this is actually an excellent test! If I give you HONEST answers that you don't like to hear or that hurt to hear, will you be grateful for the honesty? Or will you react in an angry way that indicates that being honest with you is not safe--and then lament "If s/he had only been honest with me I could have handled honesty but they LIED!" 



> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they don't love their spouse, in the moment.


For me, I always wanted my spouse to love me. So I think my view was wrong in two ways: First, my focus was on him loving me rather than on me honoring my word and actively loving him. Second, I did not think he gave a hoot about me anymore so I gave up trying to get his attention. I did not truly love him because I was focused on me, and on him loving me, and I did not feel like he loved me so part of me just died and gave up.

However, had he shown some love to me at that time, I was craving him and not someone else. I was not thinking in my head "Oh you know someone different would be nice." I never wanted someone other than him, but I thought he didn't want me, felt worthless, someone else acted like they wanted me, and I was foolish enough to turn that direction.



> 2) During the whole affair, i'm sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?


Honestly? I was angry and resentful. I thought things like "Sure you couldn't lift a finger when I was dying for you, and now that I've found someone who thinks I'm wonderful, now you want me to stop so I can go back to being invisible? No!" In a way I felt like when he was hurting me that was perfectly okay with him, but when I was hurting him, he wanted me to stop...but he wouldn't do the same for me! Also there was an element of pride involved, like if I stopped I'd be admitting I was wrong and have to stamped with scarlett A, so I had like a rebellious streak, kind of like "Well I know I'm wrong and I don't care because I LIKE IT!" Of course, in my heart of hearts, I knew I was wrong...KNEW IT..and eventually I couldn't keep it up anymore and eventually I did stop. 



> 3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?


For the longest time I didn't because I didn't realize what it was! I didn't start off thinking "I'll go commit adultery today"--I started off thinking "Well, while he plays his game I'll play one I like and at least enjoy myself." Then I met some other folks who had something in common with me and enjoyed the game, and it was just nice. I had a few honest acquaintances and did not sit and chat with them all day or anything--just a common point of reference. And then one man just blew me away and said in private message that he thought I was amazing and had had a cyber crush on me for the longest time. I was stunned! ME? And that was it--I told him I was surprised and kind of flattered and from there it was gradual, crossing a little line here and another little line there and justifying each little crossing. Eventually I could tell it was an emotional affair and I did feel guilty, but by then I was in up to my eyeballs. 



> 4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?


 Toward the end, yes. As I said, for me I didn't realize what it was until lines were already crossed and I was already hooked. When Dear Hubby asked me to stop, I was angry with him like I said before and that was part of my justification too. But in my gut I knew that I could not do this and had to stop...and honestly, I just wanted someone to love me!



> 5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?


My affair was an online emotional affair, so we were not physically together. In the physical world, my spouse did not seem to notice me or care, so he was busy doing his own things (this is what I thought). So the world inside my head was a fantasy of online emotion, and the actual physical world was just me padding around the house alone, eating or sleeping. That is the way it was in my head...like two worlds. And my body lived with my spouse, but we weren't having sex, we didn't talk or touch, there was no connection, we didn't "do stuff together." So I didn't think of my spouse when in the fantasy fake playing online world, and I didn't think of my AP when in the real world either. In the fake online world, I thought of it as "real" (like the emotions are "real" and the interest is "real") but obviously I didn't know much about my AP at all and I filled in the blanks with the best possible option. I did know my spouse and I filled in the blanks with the negative stuff for him. 

So does that make sense? I realize describing it that it's compartmentalization, but it's not like I was "with the AP" during the evening and in the same or very similar way I was "with my spouse" during the day. My spouse was kind of like a shadow to me and I had convinced myself he did not care about me or what I thought or felt and so I gave up. In a way, I was actually "with" no one because my spouse was just not there and the AP was fake and in my mind. 



> 6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel?


I think my Dear Hubby knew about the affair long before I realized, and he tried to ask me to stop, but it didn't get through. The day it "got through" I was going to go and actually see the AP in real life, and I was sitting there waiting to board and my Dear Hubby came. He said please don't do this and he could not live through this again, and he started to cry, and that was it. I "saw" his face when I hadn't before. I saw the hurt on his face and in his eyes, and I knew then that he DID care and that I was the one hurting him, and I couldn't do it...my heart wasn't that hard yet. 

What did I feel? Horrible--there's not a word for it. Kind of like throwing up and crawling into mud and dying. I felt small and guilty and sick and hated myself and what I had become and what I had almost done. And in a very small way I felt better that I was doing the right thing. Doing the wrong thing when you know it's wrong, even if your heart is kind of hard, feels like continuous nausea.



> 7) Would you have an affair again?


 NEVER!! Not if I can help it (and I can).


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask..
> 
> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.
> 
> ...


Serial cheater here...

1) I never stopped loving my wife. I truly do feel that I could never live without her. I'm still crazy about her today. In the moment I wasn't thinking of my wife only the rush and/or excitement of something new.

2) Never saw any of my liaisons as crossing the line. My wife didn't know about any of it so it wasn't causing her pain. We were still very happy.

3) No guilt at all at first, but over the years it took its toll. My wife was totally devoted and I was a creep who would bed anything that moved.

4) Not really, one day I just woke up and had had enough.

5) Totally compartmentalized. My wife was the love of my life. Everyone else was just for cheap thrills.

6) Ughhh...This was the worst part. I told on myself, and in all honesty I didn't know that it would hurt her as bad as it did. To this day I regret telling her. I caused her pain for nothing. I was done playing around.

7) I don't believe so, its been more than a decade.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

To tally the numbers quickly, 99% of the responders stated they no longer loved their spouse during the affair. They had no guilt because they were into their AP. And most would never do it again for their own personal reasons.

One stated they are still together for the kids and nothing has really changed. Her husband would be living in what is considered active denial. Seems like her story is the most likely outcome we see here on CWI. A few make it but for some reason, many resume the same relationship prior to the affair.

One responder was totally in love with his wife during everything and dropped all of his damage on her emotional doorstep because "he" was feeling guilty. This is the one that makes me scream SELFISH. Wow......


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

asia said:


> One responder was totally in love with his wife during everything and dropped all of his damage on her emotional doorstep because "he" was feeling guilty. This is the one that makes me scream SELFISH. Wow......


If you are referring to me I think telling her was the most unselfish thing I ever I did. I revealed to her who I was. It gave her the choice of deciding if she wanted to stay with someone like me or get divorced. I'm very thankful that she did stay.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> EI, _I am not here to bash you_, but your post is so striking to me I want to say something... Maybe it's just more of therapy for me, I don't know...
> 
> When I read posts like this (and few betrayers are seemingly so open- so kudos to you) I always wonder what their spouse agrees with the assessment of them. In reading your post it seems like your reasons for betrayal are 100% his fault and you were the saint of the marriage and although you take full accountability for your actions, you seem justify the betrayal fully in a sense (and in a way you don't).
> 
> ...



BPGUY,

I don't come here often and these posts get old to me, only because I have backed EI up more than once and many people still don't believe it or want to hear it. Our story is our story and
I can honestly tell you EI's assessment is accurate. Dday #2 SHOCKED me into reality, that and treating my low-T and depression. I could not and would not participate in our marriage prior to the A. To this day I don't know what the hell I was thinking. I was thinking partly that life just sucked and this was as good as it gets and I expected EI to join in on this miserable life too. 

I basically told her there would be NO intimacy and no happiness and no getting out of this rut. EI eventually told me she could not live like this any longer, she went as far to say that she would find passion with or without me. I blew it off like everything else. She tried everything for years to get my attention, to get me involved. I just would not do it, you are just going to have to believe me here, I have gone into depth on more than one post covering what all she did to get me on board. I would not have anything to do with her, it got so bad that her touching me in a loving way made me angry. The talk of sex pi$$ed me off. It was bad and went on for many years, with the last 2-3 prior to the A, being far worse.

After Dday #2...I think it was one of those things where you don't know what you have until it's gone. I realized I lost her..she was gone. In this story I, the BS, changed, I immediately, that day, opened up, my walls came crashing down. EI never really changed her core person, she just moved on without me and was now devoted to another. I put her through many years of hell and she simply broke. 

We BOTH made a huge mess of things, what she did was wrong in every way, it is not excusable but it is understandable to me. I don't know how I would handle things if EI stopped being intimate with me, if she withheld love, sex, hugs, kisses, passion, touch. I know I wouldn't hang on for years like she did. 

Remember too BP, she wasn't trying to save the marriage, it was over to her, she was done. She was not in love with me and she was certain I didn't lover her. She asked for a seperation and divorce. She just didn't wait to move on, that's where she messed up.

I actually worry more about her wellbeing now because of the negative effects this had and does have on her. She still feels less than, unworthy, etc. I on the other hand love EI and forgive her. I only hope now that she can forgive herself someday. She is a good person, great mom, and loving caring wife. She just cannot handle a husband who witholds love, intimacy, friendship, hugs, kisses, passion, romance, happiness, and hope from her, that's her breaking point. We ALL have one. I can tell you I would have broken far sooner than she did too. I sucked as a husband, she broke, handled it wrong, and now here we are in a better place, go figure. The math may not add up but it is what it is. Maybe this equation only works with a EI and B1 in it  

I can honestly say I am happier now than I have been in a very long time. Yes, I still hurt sometimes too, that's getting better with time.
I "feel" now, I express emotion, I laugh, cry and get angry too. I love passionately, I desire, I could go on and on but I think you get where I am going.

She worries about me and still asks me how I am doing daily, if I so much as sniff she immediately looks at me and asks if everything is ok. She is on egg shells daily, just waiting for the hammer to fall and for me to loose it. I am confident that the hammer isn't going to fall anymore, I am doing much better and life is getting back to normal for us. We still have a ways to go but we are both healing and moving forward. 

What EI says on here is the truth, you may not like it, it may not and does not fit the TAM mold, but it's our truth and it is what happened with us.

I won't be back here so don't bother with a response, or expect one back from me. I just wanted to say for the last time, that EI speaks the truth, and she has never lied on here about our journey or changed history to make things appear better for her. She simply posts what happened, as do I.

B1 out..


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

EI said:


> 2. I knew I was going to cross the line even before I crossed the line. I was literally starving for attention, affection, touch and an emotional and a physical connection. Once the affair began I had no desire for it to stop.
> 
> 
> ~EI


I am not bashing or trying to start a fight - but you need to look up the definition of "literally".


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry to hijack - but can I add an additional question for the WS's?

For those with young children who engaged in an affair: did you ever stop to think about what your actions would do to your children, both in the short term (pain, confusion, insecurity, anger, fear, sadness etc) and the long term (a lack of belief in marriage, trust, anxiety/depression, anger, resentment, an inclination to cheat themselves, etc)? 

Personally, I feel like I can deal with the betrayal, as I'm a grown man and can muscle through. But I see my helpless, broken, shattered children who long and ache for their family to be what it once was, and I just can't wrap my head around how a parent could possibly inflict such terrible pain on their own offspring.

Not attacking - it's a genuine question that I haven't heard an answer to that makes any sense.

Cheers


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Healer said:


> I am not bashing or trying to start a fight - but you need to look up the definition of "literally".


When I first began posting here I was told that when a person uses the word "but" in a sentence that they mean the opposite of everything they say before using the word "but" and that they mean exactly what they say after the word "but." So, point taken and question answered. 

I believe that common sense indicates that I used the word as an adverb according to definition # 2 which I have bolded for clarity. Interestingly enough, if you spend much time in the "Sex in Marriage" section of TAM, you will read MANY stories where women have withheld physical intimacy permanently or for prolonged periods of time from their husbands for a variety of reasons. Many of the same posters who feel entitled to make demeaning and derogatory comments to me regarding my infidelity, also appear to think they are entitled to make demeaning and derogatory comments to them, as well. That's just some food for thought. 

The way I used the word "literal" was accurate according to definition # 2. Literally speaking, humans only require food, water, shelter and air to exist. I would say that there is a reasonable expectation of substantially more within the bonds of marriage. 


lit·er·al·ly 
/ˈlitərəlē/
Adverb
1. In a literal manner or sense; exactly: "the driver took it literally when asked to go straight over the traffic circle".
*2. Used to acknowledge that something is not literally true but is used for emphasis or to express strong feeling.*
Synonyms
literatim - word for word - verbatim - to the letter


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

EI said:


> When I first began posting here I was told that when a person uses the word "but" in a sentence that they mean the opposite of everything they say before using the word "but" and that they mean exactly what they say after the word "but." So, point taken and question answered.
> 
> I believe that common sense indicates that I used the word as an adverb according to definition # 2 which I have bolded for clarity. Interestingly enough, if you spend much time in the "Sex in Marriage" section of TAM, you will read MANY stories where women have withheld physical intimacy permanently or for prolonged periods of time from their husbands for a variety of reasons. Many of the same posters who feel entitled to make demeaning and derogatory comments to me regarding my infidelity, also appear to think they are entitled to make demeaning and derogatory comments to them, as well. That's just some food for thought.
> 
> ...


Fair enough! Honestly though - I wasn't bashing or trying to fight.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Healer said:


> Fair enough! Honestly though - I wasn't bashing or trying to fight.


Okay, I believe you, and thank you for responding back.  I've been on TAM for just over a year and I have become a bit more guarded. Not with the honesty in my comments or in my responses to others, but in my willingness to even "put myself out there," as often, for others to put under the magnifying glass. 

Like I said in my first post on this thread. I came here hoping to learn, to grow and, hopefully, to find some useful resources for coping with infidelity. Because my husband and I were both willing to put ourselves out there and openly share our own personal experience with infidelity, I began to get a lot of questions from BS's who were genuinely seeking insight into their own WS's thinking and who hoped that I might be able to help them gain a better understanding. 

Several BS's and WS's post on a thread called Reconciliation here in the CWI forum. Everyone who posts there treats everyone else with the same courtesy that they wish to be treated with whether they are BS's or WS's. Because of that, both BS's and WS's have been given a unique opportunity to learn from one another. It's been a very useful resource in my own relationship with my husband. 

Unfortunately, most WS's are not able to speak freely on other threads without drawing the ire of others, even when they've been asked to do so. There are certain "acceptable" responses from WS's on TAM. Anything short of those responses is deemed to be incorrect. The fact that certain people may not like my answers does not make them any less true. For those reasons, I have become somewhat defensive when posting on other threads. 

Again, thank you for responding back. I'm actually not evil, nor do I have horns growing from my head or eyes that glow in the dark. I am a wife and a mother who did not have the coping skills to handle the prolonged neglect, rejection and isolation caused by my husband's, then untreated, depression and low Testosterone. What I am not ashamed to admit is that my husband's love, care and devotion DOES, in fact, make me a happier, stronger, more capable and more satisfied woman in all areas of my life. I do "literally"  need his love. It's what I signed up for when I got married.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.

I felt like I WAS living without my husband. I loved him but there had not been any passion for several years. It was a very lonely marriage for both of us at that time.

2) During the whole affair, im sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?

At the time, the attention was replacing affection and intimacy that didn't exist in my marriage. I was operating under the assumption that the marriage was on it's last legs anyways.

3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?

I did. 

4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?

No, I saw no reason at that time. 

5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?

It was a double life. I kept my life extremely compartmentalized. 

6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel? 

Horror. I was sick at having caused that much hurt. Despair that I had destroyed our family. 

7) Would you have an affair again?

Not ever.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Most people here hate me because I'm generally rough on cheaters. OP, if you want good insight I would suggest heeding the words of EI. She has seen the dark world and has come back and shone through as gold.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kimberley17 (Oct 10, 2011)

Healer said:


> Sorry to hijack - but can I add an additional question for the WS's?
> 
> For those with young children who engaged in an affair: did you ever stop to think about what your actions would do to your children, both in the short term (pain, confusion, insecurity, anger, fear, sadness etc) and the long term (a lack of belief in marriage, trust, anxiety/depression, anger, resentment, an inclination to cheat themselves, etc)?
> 
> ...




It's kind of a lose lose sometimes. Is it better to divorce and be amicable and show a united front around the kids or stay married and live in a roomate type relationship? Either way it shows a negative side of marriage...


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Kimberley17 said:


> It's kind of a lose lose sometimes. Is it better to divorce and be amicable and show a united front around the kids or stay married and live in a roomate type relationship? Either way it shows a negative side of marriage...


Indeed - but as you (not you specifically) are having the affair, you have to know this is going to ruin your family...ruin your kids. Divorcing is one thing - even if it's just one parent who wants it. But cheating is another game altogether. 

I've asked my wife, who claims to love our kids so deeply - did she think of them when she was doing this? Her answer? No. She didn't think of anyone or anything but herself and the moment she was in.

I'll never understand that. The thought of destroying my kids would be an instant punch in the face and turn me off sexually. The thought of it turns my stomach. Adults hurt each other all the time - that's part of being a grown up. But I'll never understand how someone could intentionally hurt children - especially their own.

And there ain't no 2 ways about it - cheating on your spouse hurts your children, even if they don't know that's what went down.

My kids are OK sometimes...but they're a mess in a lot of ways. They are angry, hurt, confused, scared, bewildered, insecure...my son is 8 and is going through some serious anger. My girl is 5 and emotional and insecure. Everything is "I'm sorry" and "are you mad". Things she should not have to say or think. But they do. My heart breaks for them.


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## thatcleanhippyguy (May 17, 2013)

It depends on the person. For myself, cheating or having an affair is when you actually fall in love with someone else. If my wife were to have random sex with someone, I don't care. As long as she comes home to me. Sex has never been an intimate thing for me. It's animalistic or procreational and I have never done the latter, and maybe then I will experience true intimacy and my opinion might change then.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> If my wife were to have random sex with someone, I don't care. As long as she comes home to me.


To each his own, but :scratchhead:


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> It depends on the person. For myself, cheating or having an affair is when you actually fall in love with someone else. If my wife were to have random sex with someone, I don't care. As long as she comes home to me. Sex has never been an intimate thing for me. It's animalistic or procreational and I have never done the latter, and maybe then I will experience true intimacy and my opinion might change then.


Where do you guys live again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatcleanhippyguy (May 17, 2013)

But what? 

There aren't many people in this world who are able to love unconditionally.

Just because I married my wife does not make her "mine". She is free to do as she pleases. Anytime. (minus touching my guitars)

Lol i'm not telling . Up North.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Vanguard said:


> Most people here hate me because I'm generally rough on cheaters. OP, if you want good insight I would suggest heeding the words of EI. She has seen the dark world and has come back and shone through as gold.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow.... All I can think to say is thank you. Beyond that, I am speechless. Thank you, very much.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

thatcleanhippyguy said:


> But what?
> 
> There aren't many people in this world who are able to love unconditionally.
> 
> ...


But I don't understand. That's all. Like I said, to each his own.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Healer said:


> Sorry to hijack - but can I add an additional question for the WS's?
> 
> For those with young children who engaged in an affair: did you ever stop to think about what your actions would do to your children, both in the short term (pain, confusion, insecurity, anger, fear, sadness etc) and the long term (a lack of belief in marriage, trust, anxiety/depression, anger, resentment, an inclination to cheat themselves, etc)?
> 
> ...



Because people are inherently selfish, and it has to be a conscious decision to think of others. Why was my ex not particularly concerned about our kids when he was abusing me? It was only when I left him that he all of a sudden became concerned about the kids coming from a broken him, suggesting that it wasn't really about the kids but him. Now we're back to the selfish part. Yes, affairs and their fallout can be devastating on kids but every time someone doesn't go out of their way to treat their spouse well they're not thinking of their kids well being. A big reason I left my ex was precisely because I knew it wasn't good for our kids, and they are thriving now in a peaceful home. They see their dad all the time and he's much happier without me. So back to the original question: why do some people not worry about their kids when they are neglecting/treating their spouse poorly but when the marriage ends they're all of a sudden worried about the kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alibaba70 (Nov 19, 2013)

EI said:


> Wow.... All I can think to say is thank you. Beyond that, I am speechless. Thank you, very much.



Just bump into this thread, i found your case is quite similar to mine but in my case my wife has vaginismus.

El, can i ask u question?
So hows your sex life now with b1?
Did he went on treatment
What makes you so sure he'll change after all of those years of ignorance?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

HarryDoyle said:


> Good luck with that!
> 
> 
> 
> Been trying to get those exact same questions answered since d-day. Though I truly believe my WW is being truthful to the best of her ability, I still get "l don't know" and "I can't remember" to those kind of questions. And yes I truly believe that they can compartmentalize to the point of almost complete separation. Which explains why they can't remember or explain anything maybe.


I get a lot of this to from my WW. I dont believe for one second she doesnt know or cant remember.....

I still remember where I was during the OJ verdict, the riots in LA, 9/11......I also think I would remember every single detail about the night I cheated on my spouse. Thats just something you dont forget.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

EI said:


> I have grown weary of responding to these types of threads because no matter how sincere and genuine the OP's intent is to gain a greater understanding of what a WS may or may not have been thinking during their affair, there are simply too many hurting and bitter BS's here who are unwilling to let the WS's speak (even when asked) without projecting their anger over their own broken relationships onto them.


I can understand this. As a recently discovered BS, reading from a WS does infuriate me. Immediate reaction was to project my anger on to you....however, the more powerful feeling was appreciation for sharing your story to try and help some of us who will forever be trying to figure out why our spouse did this to us.

Although your story is nothing like mine, I appreciate the fact that you posted it for others to read.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Healer said:


> I've asked my wife, who claims to love our kids so deeply - did she think of them when she was doing this? Her answer? No. She didn't think of anyone or anything but herself and the moment she was in.
> 
> I'll never understand that. The thought of destroying my kids would be an instant punch in the face and turn me off sexually. The thought of it turns my stomach. Adults hurt each other all the time - that's part of being a grown up. But I'll never understand how someone could intentionally hurt children - especially their own.
> 
> ...


I hate my wife for doing this to my children. She can hurt me all she wants, but to see the kids affected by it makes me want to kill her. 

My 5 year old is not constantly asking if mommy or daddy is going away. My wife cheated on me with my stepsons sperm donor. I've been the only father that boy has ever known....me leaving would have thrown him into tremendous turmoil. He is very upset right now. He even told her if I leave, hes leaving her to live with me. Keep in mind, he was one of the biggest "mommas boys" you would ever meet before this. For him to say that speaks absolute volumes to the damage she did to the kids. I told my wife the other day "Its sad that between me and his 2 biological parents, I was the only one who truly had his best interests at heart".

I dont cheat. Its not in my DNA, regardless of the situation. Once I had kids, that fact was strengthened. The one thing I would never want to do is have my child know that I cheated on their mother and broke up their family. I couldnt look myself in the mirror, as a man.

I guess some people just love themselves more than they love even their children.


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## sdyjdstyqing (Dec 20, 2013)

Did you feel guilt while having an affair?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SadSadGirl said:


> I guess I'm just trying to understand a little better what goes on the minds of cheaters.. and i have a couple of questions to ask.


.

*As the BS, I can only answer from the persona of my XW for the person who she truly is; because I really feel that she is not woman enough to own up to it:
*


*1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they don't love their spouse, in the moment.*

*Once detachment from me, her spouse, had been fully accomplished, so goes with it the devoted love that she once felt for me. In her eyes, it was largely like being emancipated and then being totally free again, much like she was in her college days, to seek that reattachment elsewhere, basically to any available male that she knows or has known in her lifetime that might possibly bestow upon her the attention and gratification that she feels she craves! It escalates gradually from FB contact, to mild flirting, to sexual flirting, to socially hooking up with them, and then rather fastly to EA and PA.*

*2) During the whole affair, I'm sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?*

*Because it was something absolutely new and exhilerating. Much like riding a dangerous heart-stopping roller coaster that you seemingly just can't get enough of! Something that you expected even bigger thrills from with each succeeding rendezvous.
*

*3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?*

No! Not really! Detachment had largely taken care of that! She was deceptive enough to assign enough chores, tasks, and what-not to keep me busy enough to keep from having a wandering mind about her travel itinerary and activities. And deceptively was providing just enough sexual and loving impetus to keep me thinking that we were still very much happily married.

*4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair?*

*No! As long as I, her husband, was none the wiser to any of it, she could screw her BF's brains out when she was on the road, and then come back home to lay in bed like a sack of potatoes to let me get a much less than occasional taste of what married love and sex was all about! *

*5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse?*

*Thinking of her husband while with him? No way! Unless of course it is to construct an alibi or a timeline on her activity that she didn't want me to become intelligent enough to follow!

Thinking of him while back home with me? Totally! That's why cell and text activity, along with FB and email helped supplant and satiate her sordid needs!
*

*6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel?* 

*To her knowledge it has never been found out! By either me or her family. And if she had her way about it, that's the way that it would continue to be. I'm largely biding my time to strategically expose it to her family to show the type of person that she really was, and to see her try to cover documented facts with some of her "cover-up" unsubstantiated lies.

Basically to let her family know that not only do they have a skank within their family circle, but a lying, deceptive one at that!*

*7) Would you have an affair again?*

*Well since she's now legally single again, I don't really think that it could really be called an affair, now could it?

But given the fact that she could possibly remarry, for better or for worse, if the "worse" comes to fruition, I totally feel that she would not have the slightest problem whatsoever, in employing her past experiences in lowering her panties to the first guy who might show her the least bit of sexual attention!
*


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> If you are referring to me I think telling her was the most unselfish thing I ever I did. I revealed to her who I was. It gave her the choice of deciding if she wanted to stay with someone like me or get divorced. I'm very thankful that she did stay.


Why do you regret telling her? Did you tell her to assuage your guilt, but now you have guilt that you did it for selfish reasons, not really to help her or give her a choice?

Edit:

I should also add, that regardless of why, for you, for her, for any combination of the two.. it took balls, and was the right thing to do. Don't beat yourself up, she needed to know, and you needed her to know.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

From this thread I can see that cheaters are just flawed human beings just like bs are. I thank all the ws for truthfully share their story as all the insight I get is helpful.

For the serial cheaters, did you think was unaware or naieve or even stupid for buying your stories?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Stories like E make perfect sense that a marriage can rebuild. It had become horrible. No matter what path you decided to take would be better than the one you had been living with your husband. The only way was up! 

But take a good marriage, and add bad to it... How then can that become better? 

~ sammy


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Affairs are brutal. It really hurts someone from the inside out.

Most WAS excuses are BS, it's about not caring enough to NOT cheat.

For those specific situations where there is sexless due to a physical anomoly or someone who just WON'T allow it, instead of cheating, discuss an "open" relationship proposal or leave, but don't sneak around and cheat.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

Thank you treyvion for your perspective as a ws and a bs.

What I take from this thread is that cheaters love you but are not in love with you anymore. They do not value the bs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

looking for clarity said:


> Thank you treyvion for your perspective as a ws and a bs.
> 
> What I take from this thread is that cheaters love you but are not in love with you anymore. They do not value the bs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheaters are about pure fun and enjoyment for themself. They really don't want to hurt you, but it does make them feel more clever when they pull their things off.

Now there is a type of cheater who does it intentially for pain. And these types will lead your life to ruin, if you get yourself killed behind it, no sweat.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

looking for clarity said:


> Thank you treyvion for your perspective as a ws and a bs.
> 
> What I take from this thread is that cheaters love you but are not in love with you anymore. They do not value the bs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In love is "lust", a feeling. It can come and go, get weaker and stronger. Love should not be based on "in love", but it's always great if your partner can generate those feelings from you.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

treyvion said:


> In love is "*lust*", a feeling. It can come and go, get weaker and stronger. Love should not be based on "in love", but it's always great if your partner can generate those feelings from you.


Biggest Freudian slip....... ever!


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

Lol it is, isn't it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> [Mrs. John Adams.
> Did you cheat because you were mad at your husband? For what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BTW. Thank all of you so much for a good thread. 
I really appreciate a Q&A thread for W's and BS that is civil. 
I love hard questions and honest answers. 

I'm sure sorry that ws that are trying to help get used as punching bags.
Thank you all. I hope others will be encouraged to add their perspectives.

I also hope BS that are too hurt to avoid using W's as punching bags would refrain from the threads where they are trying to help!
I feel your pain but I need to understand the W's and feel their pain, even self inflicted, as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> No I did not cheat because I was mad. I did not plan to cheat. I did not say to myself...oh I will get john...I will have an affair! We were not in a good place in our relationship. I never meant for it to happen. But I did not pursue another relationship. It was opportunity at the wrong time.


Is there a thread where your story is told? I am not talking about nasty details, I am very confused on what and how you propelled yourself into disaster.
I understand EIs situation and her emotional state and I have a very good picture of what took place.

I have no grasp of what happened to you.

Please understand, I am not looking to beat you up for your decision making process at the time. After all, infidelity really never makes sense. 
I would just like to know your process of going down that road.
From all I have read so far, it simply seemed like a low point in the marriage, but still a happy one.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thank you so much for sharing! You have just opened a door for me and I now have a much better picture of your situation and how it unfolded. 

It sounds like you began believing things that were not true. Convincing yourself there must be something wrong with your life when there really was a good marriage, that like all marriages, just needed a little work and caring communication.

Do you think if your husband had shown hard hitting, serious concern when you started talking about open marriages and the player prof., and really started intervening in your marriage, letting you know he thought you were in serious trouble and he thought you two needed to fix it, that it would have helped to avoid what happened?

Sorry for the drawn out question. 
How did you two handle the immediate aftermath in regards to OM being one of your professors?
Did you still have classes with him?
Did your H confront him?
I know this was all before TAM, just wondering how you two navigated the initial destruction to give your marriage a chance to survive.

What you two did obviously worked, and maybe in hindsight you could say some things you two did wrong in the immediate recovery.

You are a blessing. Thank you for giving me insight.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

:rofl:


EI said:


> Biggest Freudian slip....... ever!


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## AwfullyGuilty (Oct 29, 2012)

1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.
- when everything was fine in my marriage, I had eyes for my husband only. I never thought about being with another man. I cheated when our marriage was falling apart - after lots of years of emotional a some physical abuse. I felt lonely and there was no emotional intimacy between us. Still, that is no excuse.

2) During the whole affair, im sure there was a point when you knew the line was crossed, why didn't you stop?
- I felt I was in love with that person. I finally felt what I did not feel in my own marriage for so long and was given attention back. I did not stop because I did not think clearly. 

3) Did you feel guilt while having an affair?
Yes. But after having physical affair after one - mostly emotional - I feel lots of things. Regret, my own stupidity, disappointment in myself. I feel sorry for hurting my husband. I know he did not deserve it. I was selfish.

4) Were you ever thinking you needed/wanted to stop at some point in the affair? Yes, but I was too weak and selfish to do it. 

5) I understand compartmentalization.. but is it really that separated? As you're having the affair and go back home to your spouse, are you really living a double life? Do you not think about your spouse when with the AP and not think about the AP when with your spouse? 
- I did not think about my husband while with OM. But I did think about OM when I was at home a lot. But I never pretended things at home were right. 

6)How did you feel when the affair was found out? How did you feel at the moment, looking into your spouses face? What did you feel? n/a 
I only told my therapist and MC.

7) Would you have an affair again? 

No. It is not worth it. It only adds a problem to another problem and you stop to see things you should in order to fix your first problem.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

AwfullyGuilty said:


> 1) Can cheaters really cheat on someone they truly love and can't live without?? Or do they feel like they dont love their spouse, in the moment.................
> 
> ...........No. It is not worth it. It only adds a problem to another problem and you stop to see things you should in order to fix your first problem.


Thank you for sharing. This is pretty much what my wife has told me (with differences in our situation of course). With minor exceptions, she could have wrote it. Some of it is still hard to grasp, but getting other accounts helps put it in perspective and see the consistency in what she has told me.


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