# I need to talk about my story.



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I picked this site because the people here seem more responsive than any other site ive seen. So I wont post and run. I'm not sure what I need here other than to talk about it.

6 years ago I met my wife. She was 25 and I was 36. I worked at the local jail and she was a recovering heroin addict. I had been at the jail for several years and have seen all sorts of addicts and offenders. My co workers actually stated that she was perfect for me. She had resolve, she wasnt the addict that others are. She didn't expect god or anyone else to free her of her addiction, she said it was her demon to beat. They encouraged our meeting as we were so similar. Now I don't know if it's because they felt sorry for me (at that point I had dated but stayed single and was single for about 8 years up until that point.)
She was pretty, witty, and had a wonderful sense of humor. 
At the time, I thought there wouldn't be any harm im writing her after she left the facility which I did.
We got to know each other without sex and it was actually refreshing. We learned about each other and fell in love with each others words. If you're wondering why on earth I would take the chance its because I believe everyone is capable of change. That and maybe I was lonely. I do know that I felt a connection that I had not felt before and it seemed wonderful. 

Fast forward a year and a half and we were living with each other. We were the best of friends. We had some issues but nothing major however, she did relapse. One time. I remember when and the day. My fears of relapse had come true and I voiced that I was unsure about us. Over the next couple weeks we talked a lot and she was remorseful and displayed resolve. She made it this far and one step back, two steps forward. And to this day, this was her only relapse and I am very proud of her. Oddly enough, during this time, she "forgot" to take her birth control and as a result, she became pregnant. 
We worked though her relapse, she had our beautiful little girl and life was great. 

Add another 2 years. She got a great job and we were raising our daughter and life was great. She became the person I knew she was capable of being and I finally had the family I had always wanted. Shortly after this time in a period of a couple weeks, she started to become irritable with me constantly and picked arguments (something we never did). After something trivial (a 4th of july gathering) she exploded, stated she was having an affair, refused to tell me with whom and demanded that I move out. 
She kept our daughter from me for a couple days. It was terrible. 
I found out who this person was and contacted his wife and told her. We exchanged information and had learned during the "confession" that I had received the trickle down truth. Over the course of the next couple weeks, she told more and more of the truth. I felt terrible. Things seemed so good. I was off work at the time due to a health issue but we both agreed that it was temporary but needed. (two severe blood clots that turned my legs purple). Now she was blaming me being off work as one of her frustrations. She said I had become depressed and pushed her away. (And in her defense, not working made me a little depressed). She seemed remorseful. We went to a marriage councilor and worked past this. 

We learned a lot during this period and in the 2 years past, often talked about how it made us stronger. I brought it up a lot and needed reassurance often however, things were better. Within a month after her affair, I got to go back to work and things were looking up. We were bruised but not beaten. I felt good about our future. And we have a daughter, she deserved parents that would fight for her family. 

Another 2 years later, we now have a beautiful house, wonderful daughter, and I have never been happier. I have always wanted a family and a wife I could call my friend and I finally had it. Financially, my job is low pay. The reason is yet another decision we made together. She works two midnight shifts and two day shifts. We agreed on a day shift job for me so that our daughter would be home a lot instead of a daycare or something. The town I live in isn’t all that big so day shift positions aren’t easy to come by. So , 8-4 was perfect. Once our daughter was a little older and when my wife could hold a different shift, I would find something better with better pay. It was for the greater good.
This last may 4th, I was up late and decided it was time for bed. After I plugged my phone in on my side of the bed, I started to walk out of the bedroom to let the dog out, lock the doors, etc. and noticed her phone lit up. Out of curiosity I walked over to see what it was this late and she woke up as I was looking at it. She changed her lock code but after an argument, gave me the new code. She made up some lie and said to my face that she changed the code because I “snoop” around on her phone. This was bizarre because I didn’t yet she lied to me, about me, and it wasn’t true. After looking at her phone, I saw that she was pricing a SUPER 8 in a town 20 minutes away. After asking her about it, she said she typed it in by mistake. 
She left that night and I didn’t see or talk to her or my daughter for 5 days. After talking to her finally, she said that she had already filed for divorce and I needed to move out. She states that because of the one time we argued in front of our daughter, it was too much. My paranoia and my insecurities have pushed her over the edge. “There is no fixing this”. I have destroyed my marriage. 
Now, I had to move and rebuild my life with a low paying job. The woman that would write me love notes daily, tell me I was a perfect husband, tell me how happy she is with her life now says our marriage is beyond repair. I have pushed her too far. 
I cannot for the life of me think of another time that I have felt such sadness. 
She left may 4th. Almost every day I hear, “get out of that house”. She went to her moms awaiting my departure from the house. (Leasing with the option to buy). I can’t afford the house on my own and she claims she can….which is probably true. Its been almost 2 months of hell. I had no money and no prospects. 
I have found a place and I get the keys to this apartment on Friday. Its not a nice place and it breaks my heart that I have to take my daughter there. But…its all I can afford until I get a new job. So our daughter, our old dog whom shes throwing away, and myself are moving next Tuesday. 
I told her that I get the keys a week from tomorrow but I actually get them Friday. This is because I don’t want micro managed by her family as I try to move. What she doesn’t know is that I have scrounged enough for an attorney. Our first court date is tomorrow. 
Any light at the end of the tunnel is that I have our daughter most of the time. Due to wife’s schedule, I have our daughter Thursday through Tuesday morning and every other Saturday night (but still have her all day on Saturdays). Over the last month and a half, its been a rollarcoaster. At first, she wouldn’t come over alone. I asked her why and she said it was because I might “attack her”. Another bizarre comment. I said, “but I’ve never attacked you” but that didn’t matter. She denies having another affair and it seems that this is my fault. 
A couple weeks ago, she got into my phone account and got the numbers of everyone I’ve been texting or talking to, looked them up on facebook, and threatened them not to step foot into her house. The things shes said about me were terrible. 
I have never been treated so poorly by anyone as much as I have by her the last few weeks. 
My mind says I need to run far away.
My heart misses my friend to the utmost intensity. 
Lately, shes been coming over more. She seems happier but she knows I’m moving out. She even came over to have dinner with us (my daughter and I) a couple times. She said that 5 days without our daughter around is too hard which is why she comes over. 

So that’s my story. I have never been more depressed in my life. There have been rough periods of my life….some awful but this is the worst. At least I have our daughter 85% of the time. Most of the time, I’m so sad and stressed out, its making it hard to be a good dad. Any comments are welcome.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sounds like a selfish, crazy woman. It also sounds like you could have spent more time with her and would have ended up in the same place.

Can you retrain for a different job? Are there social services or job training programs available through you?

You still have many more work years left so focus on you and your child.

And next time consider the background of the person you date. More people than not revert to their basic nature. Look to social groups, churches, volunteer organizations, your kids school for higher quality people with more character


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You married someone with terrible character flaws. It's nice to believe people change but only a real small percentage do. Frankly our society is too optimistic about people like your wife, sadly you got burned by that. Stop believing it. I think the writing is on the wall don't you? Enjoy your children, learn from this mistake. Personally I have always believed that 75% chance of having a good marriage is done at the picking stage, this is because most people don't and maybe even can't change. It takes someone of great character to admit they are wrong and act different. Now is the time to move on and find better.

There is a good chance she was cheating, and over all you probably got the best she was capable of. Accept that. Sometimes in life things end. Accept it. Work on getting a better career and healing yourself being the best father you can be. Change the interaction with her to being about the children and nothing more. In a year or so you will have healed by then unfortunately she will most likely be crashing and burning. Hopefully when she wants to return you had learned your lesson. This is why it's important for to detach you must not allow that into your kids life as they need at least one stable parent with one stable home. If you don't they will end up with a lifetime of problems. You need to think of them now and use that as motivation. 

It will get better, there is better out there. Work on healing and have hope, your life is not over, you may find it ends up being much better.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Time to focus on yourself. That means get in the best shape of your life. That means get a job that pays 2x more. That means be the best dad for your daughter. You got this, time to focus.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

You chose a wife unwisely (as I also have done). Once you have identified a huge character flaw it's time to step back. The bad thing about these huge character flaws is that they almost always recur, however much they try to hide them. You have learned a very expensive lesson, one that hopefully you won't forget.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Are you concerned she may have relapsed again? Her behavior is all over the place. 

Unfortunately, she is not special. Not any more special than any other recovering addict. You chose her because you chose her. 

You need to secure a lawyer and protect yourself. If she falsely accuses you of abuse, you do not want to be in a place where you are unprepared.

Have you been served D papers? If not, go file yourself and have her served. 

Do not leave your home. It is marital property.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You married someone with terrible character flaws. It's nice to believe people change but only a real small percentage do. Frankly our society is too optimistic about people like your wife, sadly you got burned by that. Stop believing it. I think the writing is on the wall don't you? Enjoy your children, learn from this mistake. Personally I have always believed that 75% chance of having a good marriage is done at the picking stage, this is because most people don't and maybe even can't change. It takes someone of great character to admit they are wrong and act different. Now is the time to move on and find better.
> 
> There is a good chance she was cheating, and over all you probably got the best she was capable of. Accept that. Sometimes in life things end. Accept it. Work on getting a better career and healing yourself being the best father you can be. Change the interaction with her to being about the children and nothing more. In a year or so you will have healed by then unfortunately she will most likely be crashing and burning. Hopefully when she wants to return you had learned your lesson. This is why it's important for to detach you must not allow that into your kids life as they need at least one stable parent with one stable home. If you don't they will end up with a lifetime of problems. You need to think of them now and use that as motivation.
> 
> It will get better, there is better out there. Work on healing and have hope, your life is not over, you may find it ends up being much better.


This is my side quest. Ive started walking every day and will soon be running again. I am just so confused.
How can i get love notes and be the perfect husband one day and less than a two weeks later be such a piece of crap. How did i become an enemy? Ive noticed a common theme and thats when guys put the woman on a pedestal, the guy gets walked on. I'm not a weak man.....at least i didn't think so. I was just agreeable. We seldom argued and got along like we were long life friends. Now, i'm a monster. The constant lies she tells me as if i werent there and what shes telling others. I just don't understand.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Satya said:


> Are you concerned she may have relapsed again? Her behavior is all over the place.
> 
> Unfortunately, she is not special. Not any more special than any other recovering addict. You chose her because you chose her.
> 
> ...



Yes, she left on May 4th (thursday) and filed monday may 8th. Our first court hearing is tomorrow at 1. I have an attorney that she is not aware of. (she thinks i'm going to represent myself).

And I've heard that my "picker" is off. She seemed different and the friendship we shared WAS different. I connected with her in a way I haven't had or seen before.

Believe me, i see the obviousness in what she was before I met her. My optimism is my downfall. It wasn't low self esteem but maybe a little loneliness. I just believed in her. Am i paying the price for my misconception? Absolutely. However i believed differently.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Work on yourself. Then, fight for split custody, alimony and child support.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Often it seems that when someone is saved, they love their savior, but their love isn't a true love. It's more that they feel love that they are being provided for and being made safe. I don't think she was being deceptive, but she probably loved the stability you provided rather than who you were as a person. Once she was back on her feet and didn't need you for stability, her feelings changed. Plus, it sounds like she's moved on to someone else.

It sounds like you're a great guy and will make someone else a wonderful husband. But it would probably be best to try to find someone who loves you for who you are rather than someone who needs the help you can provide.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

wilson said:


> Often it seems that when someone is saved, they love their savior, but their love isn't a true love. It's more that they feel love that they are being provided for and being made safe. I don't think she was being deceptive, but she probably loved the stability you provided rather than who you were as a person. Once she was back on her feet and didn't need you for stability, her feelings changed. Plus, it sounds like she's moved on to someone else.
> 
> It sounds like you're a great guy and will make someone else a wonderful husband. But it would probably be best to try to find someone who loves you for who you are rather than someone who needs the help you can provide.



As much as this stings, you're probably right. 
Like I said before, its all so confusing. How close we were, the friendship, the good times. 99% of the time, it was discussed how envious others were of our friendship and how much we laughed.
The feeling that I was living a lie is hard to swallow.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

There is nothing wrong in believing in people, but you must believe them when they show you who they are too... do you possibly think about codependent tendencies and if they have an influence in your life? Could that be a problem in your personal life that overflowed to your professional environment (or was learned in your professional environment) and thus to arise in your personal life?

It may help to read Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie (https://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025) and at least rule out what you can change.

She will continue to drive this bus until you either starve her of fuel or take away the keys... I would think the keys would begin the change you need much faster but the reaction will be just as abrupt as she repaints your history together to justify her unmindful behavior the only way she seems to know how. A lawyer will help here and you were wise to retain one, volatility like you are experiencing dictates it.

It all depends on your balance of disappointment and being mindfully aware... sometimes the details are just not important in the why she does what she does, it simply is and the helpful action is to simply let go of that which hurts us to deliver what is necessary to sort through what is best (calm has to begin somewhere in you), especially for you and your daughter.

That calm will clear the clutter from your future "picker" as well as this storm passes thru... I wish you the best tomorrow.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> She will continue to drive this bus until you either starve her of fuel or take away the keys... I would think the keys would begin the change you need much faster but the reaction will be just as abrupt as she repaints your history together to justify her unmindful behavior the only way she seems to know how. A lawyer will help here and you were wise to retain one, volatility like you are experiencing dictates it.


Does it go without saying shes a narcissist? And how could I do this?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Being in a care-taking role without boundaries will always bring suffering... that's just how it is.

What are your current boundaries with her, right now?

If there are few, why?

It seems she attaches to every weak boundary, shakes it loose, then runs uncontrolled... would you say this is accurate?

If so... what boundaries could you begin enforcing today that will slow down if not stop some of the suffering she brings?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Yes, she left on May 4th (thursday) and filed monday may 8th. Our first court hearing is tomorrow at 1. I have an attorney that she is not aware of. (she thinks i'm going to represent myself).
> 
> And I've heard that my "picker" is off. She seemed different and the friendship we shared WAS different. I connected with her in a way I haven't had or seen before.
> 
> Believe me, i see the obviousness in what she was before I met her. My optimism is my downfall. It wasn't low self esteem but maybe a little loneliness. I just believed in her. Am i paying the price for my misconception? Absolutely. However i believed differently.


I am not trying to give you a hard time if that's what it seemed. We have all made mistakes here in one form or another, or we wouldn't be posting. The important thing is you protect yourself and learn from the experience. Good on you for having a lawyer. You need to be 10 steps ahead.

Your picker is off perhaps, but sometimes it takes a while to really see the person inside. My ex was a master at putting on a mask. 

Good luck at the hearing and keep us appraised.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I was wayward in my first marriage and have battled addiction.

The truth is that many addicts who get clean find another addiction. You know, the AA guy who smokes like a chimney and can't live without soda or coffee? 

Affairs are addictive. She swapped the chemical heroin high for the natural brain chemistry high she gets from other men. Google infatuation/ limerence and affairs. There's tons of info available that explains the high.

She has to vilify you. No one will give her sympathy and attention if she doesn't.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Being in a care-taking role without boundaries will always bring suffering... that's just how it is.
> 
> What are your current boundaries with her, right now?
> 
> ...


I gotta be honest here......i don't know. We are separated and she is staying with her mom. At least I'm not hearing, "get the **** out of my house" any more. She knows she left me broke but still hounded me. 
"I can't move without money. I need time".
-"Thats your problem. I am not responsible for your happiness or your finances". Shes been gone for about a month and a half and claims i've been dragging my feet. She knows I can't afford that house on my own. I couldn't have been more ill-prepared for this. 

So when she misses our daughter, she drops by. Legally, she can since her name is on the house as well as mine. 
Deep down I wanted a "i'm sorry" so I thought showing her kindness would get that. Its my fault she would come to dinner the couple times this week because I would invite her. 
Now I realize I'm just hurting myself. 

She selfishly destroyed her family. I don't really want to reconcile, I do want justice or at the very least, acknowledgement. 
But as far as boundaries, there aren't any....not until I move next week.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Its also important to note that she denies any affair. Adamantly in fact. She said my paranoia is out of control. She does admit to the first affair and I have suspected more however, she denies this one.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> I gotta be honest here......i don't know. We are separated and she is staying with her mom. At least I'm not hearing, "get the **** out of my house" any more. She knows she left me broke but still hounded me.
> "I can't move without money. I need time".
> -"Thats your problem. I am not responsible for your happiness or your finances". Shes been gone for about a month and a half and claims i've been dragging my feet. She knows I can't afford that house on my own. I couldn't have been more ill-prepared for this.
> 
> ...


You are giving her all the power to control... you.

While I know it's hard to live in behavioral uncertainty, I still do not understand why you are moving out.

We can often mix up letting go and surrendering... letting go is a boundary maintainer, surrendering is not.

Your name is on the house too, it is a safe and stable place for your daughter, you are not in a good position to transition for the both of you.

If you put the best practice of the 180 into place, how could she hurt you worse?

The 180 U Turn - Affaircare

If she doesn't like it... she is welcome to choose to stay away longer.

If she does choose to come back to visit or live, time to use the proven three responses with her unhappiness:

"I'm sorry you feel that way".

"I see things differently".

"I'm not okay with X".

Apply them to every boundary you can maintain, do not create a boundary you cannot hold.

Love yourself more...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> Its also important to note that she denies any affair. Adamantly in fact. She said my paranoia is out of control. She does admit to the first affair and I have suspected more however, she denies this one.


Let that go... that skirmish will take unnecessary mindful casualties. It would be wise to extract yourself from the front for now.

She has shown you how she will fight, learn from it.

In the Infantry we often trained to do a "high-speed delay"... things were not going well and we needed to back up and regroup but slow the opposing force down so we wouldn't be overrun.

Thicken the skin, follow the 180, who she now is will not surprise you anymore.

Perhaps you should consider cancelling the horrid apartment and put the money into the lawyer...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> This is my side quest. Ive started walking every day and will soon be running again. I am just so confused.
> How can i get love notes and be the perfect husband one day and less than a two weeks later be such a piece of crap. How did i become an enemy? Ive noticed a common theme and thats when guys put the woman on a pedestal, the guy gets walked on. I'm not a weak man.....at least i didn't think so. I was just agreeable. We seldom argued and got along like we were long life friends. Now, i'm a monster. The constant lies she tells me as if i werent there and what shes telling others. I just don't understand.


People who become addicted to drugs often are self medicating some sort of mental illness. It sounds like this might be the case with her.

For a while they are in one stage of a cycle, and then what seems like suddenly, they change. She might have something like BPD.

Her sudden accusations of her being afraid of you and her fabricating things to prove it certainly sound like she might be experiencing some psychosis. I'm really not trying to diagnose her, only trying to give an explanation of why she might have changed over night.

.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Once the divorce is final, go to her parents and tell them to ask her about the Super 8 Motel that sparked the whole divorce.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> You are giving her all the power to control... you.
> 
> While I know it's hard to live in behavioral uncertainty, I still do not understand why you are moving out.
> 
> ...


I cannot afford that house. She has hounded our landlord and he has called to bother me with it.
Her, "I am paying rent in a house I'm not staying in".
He has even called, "I cant have you living there if you're not paying".
This was every day. 

It is, or at least was, an every day thing. She has a key and its only a matter of time before my things are on the lawn, broken, or simply gone. I don't have many nice things but what I do have is electronic. So one day I'm at work, my things will either be sold, destroyed, or left outside. Although this may not be legal because my name is on the house agreement, it will still be broken or gone until i can replace it. The second possibility is that she will simply stop paying her half of the bills and then I'll either have to pay that half which will take what money i have to have them switched and then get evicted anyway. 

We do not own this house.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> Does it go without saying shes a narcissist? And how could I do this?


No it does not go without saying that she is a narcissist. No one on this forum can diagnose anyone. All we can do is to point out that there is something off with her behavior--the way you presented it to us.

She would need to see a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis and probably should have been seeing one all along. There is always a reason that a person gets hooked on hard drugs. It sounds like she never even pursed why she did that.

And talking about the drugs. There is a chance that she is back on them and that's the "affair" that she is having. If I were you, I would ask my attorney to insist that based on her history, that she has to pass a drug test before she can have any time with your daughter.

I was married to a guy whose previous wife was similar to your wife... well except that she had never been in jail. But she had drug addiction history. He, like you, believed that she could be a better person. They married. 14 years later she left him and the children. He heard from friends that she was shooting up. So his lawyer demanded a drug test. The court complied. She waited almost a year before taking that drug test... why? Because she was using again. 14 years clean and she was using again. Until she was able to pass a drug test, she only had supervised visitation. And he ended up with 100% custody.

If you are going this route, do not tell her that you are doing this. Let your attorney handle it. 

Also, do not let her in your home. Do not be alone with her. Since yoru child is young, even if yoru child is there...that's alone with her.

She can accuse you of domestic violence at any point and ruin your life and your relationship with your daughter. It sounds like she is already headed down that path. Get yourself a VAR (voice activated recorder). Have it hidden on you every time you are around her. This is so you have evidence if she ever accuses you.

My ex's first wife (the one I talked about above) did this. She kept escalating the accusations of domestic abuse. then she showed up drunk on Thanksgiving and tried put push her way into his house. He shut the door. She 'fell' and called the police on him. Luckily he had his 3 children as witnesses that he never put a hand on her.

She is not your friend. She is not the woman that you love. The woman you love does not exist. She is a figment of your imagination... she is who you wish your wife was.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> No it does not go without saying that she is a narcissist. No one on this forum can diagnose anyone. All we can do is to point out that there is something off with her behavior--the way you presented it to us.
> 
> She would need to see a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis and probably should have been seeing one all along. There is always a reason that a person gets hooked on hard drugs. It sounds like she never even pursed why she did that.
> 
> ...


This is fascinating. I will probably read this several more times so it will sink in. As far as the drug thing....I have already considered it and tomorrow in court, my attorney has already planned a "surprise" drug screen. 

Still.....figment of my imagination. Thats......profound. Why....HOW could i have been so blind?

I will also start following that 180 u turn. Good stuff. I wish i would have posted this weeks ago.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> I gotta be honest here......i don't know. We are separated and she is staying with her mom. At least I'm not hearing, "get the **** out of my house" any more. She knows she left me broke but still hounded me.
> "I can't move without money. I need time".
> -"Thats your problem. I am not responsible for your happiness or your finances". Shes been gone for about a month and a half and claims i've been dragging my feet. She knows I can't afford that house on my own. I couldn't have been more ill-prepared for this.
> 
> ...


From here on out, you need to interact with her per the 180. See the link to the 180 in my signature block below. Read it. Do it. This is how you are going to your emotional strength back. 

By the way, the two of you are married. She is responsible for you financially. You have the right to get both spousal support during the divorce and child support from her.

She has no right at all to kick you out of your home. You can only be told to leave that house when there is a court order for it. Since she is kicking you out and your are complying, she should be paying some of your move out expenses. You are being nice moving out.

Since she makes more than you do, ask for interim spousal support during the divorce and child support. And then ask for rehabilitative spousal support for a few months or half he length of the marriage after the divorce. And ask for child support until you find a better job.

The laws are gender neutral. You should get the some settlement a woman in your situation would get. So ask for it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> I cannot afford that house. She has hounded our landlord and he has called to bother me with it.
> Her, "I am paying rent in a house I'm not staying in".
> He has even called, "I cant have you living there if you're not paying".
> This was every day.
> ...


I see, thank you for clarifying...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> I cannot afford that house. She has hounded our landlord and he has called to bother me with it.
> Her, "I am paying rent in a house I'm not staying in".
> He has even called, "I cant have you living there if you're not paying".
> This was every day.
> ...


Your landlord is out of wrong and probably breaking renter's laws.

You are married. So your wife's income counts as your own. She's paying the rent right? Your name is on the lease right? So she needs to pay it. And your land lord needs to stop harassing you.

Tell her and your landlord that you are not moving out until they re-write the lease and take your name off it. If you leave and she does not pay the rent for whatever reason, he can still sue you for the rent until the end of the lease.

This also needs to be part of your divorce. Your name of the lease ASAP.

again, she cannot legally throw you out of the place because it's your legal residence and your name is on the lease.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> This is my side quest. Ive started walking every day and will soon be running again. I am just so confused.
> How can i get love notes and be the perfect husband one day and less than a two weeks later be such a piece of crap. How did i become an enemy? Ive noticed a common theme and thats when guys put the woman on a pedestal, the guy gets walked on. I'm not a weak man.....at least i didn't think so. I was just agreeable. We seldom argued and got along like we were long life friends. Now, i'm a monster. The constant lies she tells me as if i werent there and what shes telling others. I just don't understand.


The love notes the fawning over you is really about her. It's ego driven. Maybe she has BPD? Putting anyone on a pedestal is a mistake, you can admire someone but remember they are just people. It really comes down to what you are willing to put up with. You need to have healthy boundaries, you should never love someone so much you let them abuse you. 

Here is the deal your wife is broken, she probably has some form of mental illness. Her judgment is skewed and has always been that way. Don't try to use her skewed eyes to see yourself with. Trust all of us here, move on. Get some IC to make sure your boundaries are strong. I would also read some books on codependency and healthy relationships. Maybe even about recovering from a relationship with someone with BPD. Get in shape, work on your career, be the best father you can be and move on to a brighter future. You can see this as an ending or a new beginning. Go with the latter. It will help you recover faster. 

Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She can't make you leave. You can agree to leave, but do not do that until you have it in writing that you are receiving half of the family income until the divorce is final. Because YOU have to provide a decent place for your child, too. Your child now has TWO homes, and both should be of equal quality. 

And listen to EleGirl about the lease and money. She knows what she's talking about.

Oh, and take your valuable stuff to a friend's house for safekeeping.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> This is fascinating. I will probably read this several more times so it will sink in. As far as the drug thing....I have already considered it and tomorrow in court, my attorney has already planned a "surprise" drug screen.
> 
> Still.....figment of my imagination. Thats......profound. Why....HOW could i have been so blind?
> 
> I will also start following that 180 u turn. Good stuff. I wish i would have posted this weeks ago.


My first husband was as speed freak. That's what we called them in the 1970's. I was 22, naïve and had no idea that he was using or that what his using meant.

I too created a who I thought he was in my imagination. It took me 4 years to figure out who he really was. I won't give you the gory details but it was not pretty.

So just know that you are far from the only good person who got caught up with someone like this. It's actually a pretty common thing. People with problems like my first husband and your wife look for good, stable people who use for a while. Once our purpose is used up and/or once they tire of hiding who they really are they walk away.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sorry for all the posts... I'm writing things as they come to mind... 

Your major focus here needs to be your daughter. Right now she needs a strong parent to protect her. You wife is probably not only 'crazy' with you. And you have no idea how she is treating your daughter when they are alone.

So take care of yourself. Get physically and mentally strong. Your daughter needs you more than ever now and going forward.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@Hexagon, her leaving the way she did, bringing people with her because she's "scared you might attack her", saying the things she says about you.. that you're paranoid etc.... I'd be worried were I you. She could be setting you up for domestic violence charges. Everyone she's spoken to, who have come with her, and so on would likely testify for her because they have no reason not to believe her.

Keep witnesses around and get that VAR to cover your ass, just in case.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@Hexagon, her leaving the way she did, bringing people with her because she's "scared you might attack her", saying the things she says about you.. that you're paranoid etc.... I'd be worried were I you. She could be setting you up for domestic violence charges. Everyone she's spoken to, who have come with her, and so on would likely testify for her because they have no reason not to believe her.

Keep witnesses around and get that VAR to cover your ass, just in case.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Leaving the home is such a delicate matter. Part of it, maybe most of it, is due to her being a bully about it. I know if I stand my ground on this, I agree to make things harder on myself. And not just her bothering me or the landlord harassing me about it.
I'm talking retaliation and the memories. 
The more I stand my ground on this, the more she turns up the heat on her end. 

I have to say I'm actually frightened. My plan was to have the landlord come inspect the place before I leave. Also, I have to consider what she is now capable of. Sometimes the accusations can do just as much damage as actually doing whatever it is you're being accused of. 
In my opinion, at least until I've read some of the responses, is that the pros of leaving outweigh the cons. 
I'll be in a new home she doesn't have access to.
She can't freely come and go.
Etc. 
She won't have access to anything any more. 

If I stay and stand my ground, I have nothing really to gain. She will have the utilities that are not in my name shut off, she will stop paying rent which I cannot afford, etc. If i made a little more, I would stay. 

Something to take into consideration is, I have my daughter considerably more than she does.
The schedule goes like this.

Thursday night I get my daughter at 7pm.
I have her all night and get her up and ready for daycare on friday.
After work, I pick her up and have her all night.
Saturday I have her all day until 5 and then every other saturday, she goes with her mom at 5 and she stays until 6 pm the next day.
OR
I have her sat night as well as all day sunday.
Sunday I have her all night
Monday I get her ready for day care and shes there until I get off of work. I pick her up and shes with me all night.
Tuesday I get her up, take her to day care and her mother picks her up and keeps her until thursday. 
So: 
Thrus, Frid, sat (all day and every other sat night), sunday, monday, and tuesday morning.
The only day I don't have her in some capacity is wed.

The move is inevitible, I was just thinking that the sooner I get out of here and let her have this place, the sooner I can get on with my life.
She wants to be single and do it on her own as a 31 year old, she can.

Also, Indiana has Spousal Maintenance in the super rare case but no alimony.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I very much agree with leaving the house. It's a rental you can't afford AND she both has access and is acting suspiciously. It would be different if it was a home you owned and marital property or if she could accuse you of abandonment and use that against you in custody proceedings. However, it is a rental you can't afford and you have custody a lot of the time.

I'd caution you to get your custody agreement in writing and signed by a judge, get the landlord to sign off on the condition of the house, get removed from the lease, and make sure your protected from legal liability before you move.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> Leaving the home is such a delicate matter. Part of it, maybe most of it, is due to her being a bully about it. I know if I stand my ground on this, I agree to make things harder on myself. And not just her bothering me or the landlord harassing me about it.
> I'm talking retaliation and the memories.
> The more I stand my ground on this, the more she turns up the heat on her end.
> 
> ...


Spousal maintenance and alimony are basically two terms for the same thing.


Illinois Alimony FAQs | DivorceNet


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I also agree that under the circumstances you should leave the home. But you need to get your name off the lease. Talk to your lawyer about that. When is the lease up?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You also need to get temporary custody orders in place before you move. Her signing something that says she agrees that you still get the same time with your daughter.

And go get that recorder tomorrow! Keep it your pocket at all times; you never know when 'it' will happen.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Spousal maintenance and alimony are basically two terms for the same thing.
> 
> 
> Illinois Alimony FAQs | DivorceNet


Indiana... Indiana Divorce and Family Law | DivorceNet


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Indiana... Indiana Divorce and Family Law | DivorceNet


Go my "I" states mixed up >


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

A Look at Spousal Maintenance in Indiana

https://banksbrower.com/2015/03/08/spousal-maintenance-in-indiana/


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I gotta be honest here......i don't know. We are separated and she is staying with her mom. At least I'm not hearing, "get the **** out of my house" any more. She knows she left me broke but still hounded me.


She sounds like a teenager. Actually, maybe she's just prepping you for when you daughter is a teen. I'm pretty sure when she's around 14 or so, you'll hear her yell something like "I HATE YOU!!! *SLAM* I NEED MONEY" 

One thing that's really sad about this is that she doesn't even appreciate all that you've done for her. Where would she be right now if you didn't step in to help? Regardless of whether she wants to stay married, it seems like she should treat you with the respect you deserve for practically saving her life. Maybe after she goes through a string of losers she'll look back and realize what she gave up.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Its also important to note that she denies any affair. Adamantly in fact. She said my paranoia is out of control. She does admit to the first affair and I have suspected more however, she denies this one.


Shes neck deep in another Affair. All cheaters lie, hide and deny a lot.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Go take pictures of every room TODAY from multiple angles and make sure they are date/time stamped on the front. 

You cannot trust anyone but YOURSELF to protect you with facts.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Satya said:


> Go take pictures of every room TODAY from multiple angles and make sure they are date/time stamped on the front.
> 
> You cannot trust anyone but YOURSELF to protect you with facts.


I agree this. I have said recently that the safest hands are my own. 
I would also like to say thank you for the many posts offering advice. When discussing things like this with friends and family, there is so much noise (advice from those that would "like" to help but don't really).

Going with the 180. Its exactly what I needed and will implement it post haste. 

I will say that the comment that she is not my friend and I was actually in love with someone that doesn't exist hit hard. Reality is perception and for some time, she was exactly what I wanted in a woman (affair aside of course).
As I look through the sites, the threads here, watch the videos, etc, I am in the same place with the same questions that so many others have. As irrelevant as it may or may not be, "how can someone profess their love and admiration for you one day and then be so unbelievably cruel the next?" is still stuck in my head. I cannot wrap my head around it. I cannot comprehend that kind of monster. 
And it's not just me. When a spouse cheats, in my opinion, its not the spouse they just cheat on. They cheat on their families as well. 
My parents divorced when I was 9 and from that time period on, I wanted a family. This was as close as I got to it. 
And yes, those red flags where there, I just made excuses for them. She was funny, pretty, the sex was good, a decent mom, and "acted" as if we were friends. 

I keep asking why. Not "Why did she do this" but why didn't I see it? Shortly after her first affair I said to myself that my daughter deserves to have 2 parents in the same home. All marriages have problems, who is to say they have to be the same problem?
Now here I am, regretting everything. 

At least I'm no longer scared of what I would say if she asked me back. Before I would have said yes under the perfect circumstances. I couldn't do that now. The ship has sailed. However, it sure would have been nice to have been better prepared. I believed everything.
What hurts the most is remembering her holding me 2 months ago telling me to never worry about our marriage because I wanted to talk about her first affair, "I'm not going anywhere baby".


I just found out that our court date has been pushed back to July 5th. She now knows I have an attorney. The next couple days will be interesting.
I'm going to do the 180 like a fanatic.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I just found out that our court date has been pushed back to July 5th. She now knows I have an attorney. The next couple days will be interesting.
> I'm going to do the 180 like a fanatic.


Great! I'm sure you wish you weren't going through this, but you'll likely view the self-improvement you achieve as a silver lining.

Also keep this in mind as you are raising your daughter. I'm sure you are a caring and loving father, but also be a firm father as well. You may need to make some unpopular decisions to ensure she stays on the right path. Get her used to hearing 'no' and respecting your decisions when she's young and it will be easier later on.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Something else I would like to point out; I know I'm not qualified to diagnose her as being a narcissist. With that being said, her grandfather did similar things as far as cheating on her grandmother. A serial cheater who treated her grandmother poorly. 
Her mother did almost the exact same thing to her father with a couple affairs then turning on him like a rabid dog.
Now, I am dealing with it.
This is a learned behavior. My long term goal is to teach my daughter differently.

Again, you guys/girls have been so helpful.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hexagon said:


> My parents divorced when I was 9 and from that time period on, I wanted a family.


This is important information. It sets you up for codependency, i.e. letting someone walk all over you just to keep them from leaving you. Because your need for the 'image' of what you want (family) is more important than the reality you get.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@Hexagon, it's fine that she knows you have a lawyer. Honestly, you should never be without one. Never be without legal representation. I don't care how amicably you think a dispute may be or turn out (and I'm not just talking about this case, but any in your future). Never agree to anything significant that includes inherent "risk" (financial, bodily, otherwise) or liability that is not in writing and signed.

Some people really don't want to live life this way, but it's in their best interest to require these things, for their own protection. It's like an insurance policy - better to have and not need than to need and not have.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

The smear campaign of hers is trying. I was never a big facebook person but now when I open it, its a slander fest. Shes blocked me but we still have mutual friends. 
"you look so much happier without him" or "happy you're away from him and whatever *****es hes got, he can cause his drama with them".

What the hell? Its unbelievable. I had to contact her last night because I learned that on one of the only two days she has our daughter, she goes out or goes to meet the OM after he gets off work around 10p.m.
I just said, "if you're leaving or going out, please bring our daughter to me".
-"OMG I am so sick of your BS. Don't you worry about what I"M doing. She is taken care of. I need you to go away".

Perhaps this was my biggest mistake of the day because she blew up. The smallest discussion or conversation drains me and damn near ruins my day. It doesn't matter what its about. She has become cruel, hateful, and condescending. 
She loves to remind me that "its over" and my "paranoia is too much" even when the topic is about something else.
A good example is that I've noticed changes in our daughter. They are emotional changes. Shes sensitive now and cries easily.
When bringing this to her attention it causes backlash, "what do you want me to do? Come back home and crawl into f'ing bed? I don't know what YOU don't understand. WE ARE DONE! Your paranoia pushed me over the edge and you need help. GO GET IT while you're still under MY insurance that you don't have to pay for".
Or discussing shoes for our daughter...
"Those shoes you told me to have her wear are too small I think. She didn't complain but they left blisters while we were at the park".
-"Jesus I didn't say to have them on her the entire f'ing time. F'ing problem solve".
"But they weren't on her the entire......."
-"OMG shut the **** up".

This was the woman who professed that I was a great husband and she couldn't be happier 7 weeks ago.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

When you are doing the custody papers ask for " first refusal". This means that, during her parenting time, if she needs a sitter she has to ask you before making other arrangements and vice versa.

We're not joking when we say she us villifing you publicly to get sympathy and support as well as to justify her relationship with OM and to have plenty of people willing to testify they know you were abusive because​ they heard her say XYZ over the phone and had to escort her because she was afraid.

You should have publicly exposed her immediately. Now all you can do is damage control.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Hexagon said:


> The smear campaign of hers is trying. I was never a big facebook person but now when I open it, its a slander fest. Shes blocked me but we still have mutual friends.
> "you look so much happier without him" or "happy you're away from him and whatever *****es hes got, he can cause his drama with them".
> 
> What the hell? Its unbelievable. I had to contact her last night because I learned that on one of the only two days she has our daughter, she goes out or goes to meet the OM after he gets off work around 10p.m.
> ...


Stop talking to her about this stuff. She lives with her parents, right? So someone is watching your daughter when she goes out. 

The shoes. If the shoes are too small, then take your daughter to buy a new pair.

What were the shoes made out of? If they were not leather or canvas, they are probably some sort of plastic. They will cause sweating and blisters even if they are not too small. So socks (or anklets) are needed with that type of shoe.

Say as little as possible to your stbx. Solve things with your daughter on your own. If she is reacting as you say, then she is clearly over dramatizing everything.

On the topic of people bad mouthing you on Facebook, one thing that divorces do is that they will show you who your friends are. Anyone who is on Facebook badmouthing you is not your friend, block them. Do not read that nonsense.

When controlling people can no longer control you, they will try to control what others think of you. That is what she is doing.

Someone told you to take pictures of your house before leaving. Do it inside and out. While it's a good idea of make sure that the date/time on the camera is accurate, also go and buy a news paper. Hold up the news paper in some of the pictures to get a good picture of the front page and the date on the page. That will prove that you did not falsify the date on the photos.

I have read that video is even better than photos because it shows better one moment in time moving around the room. 

Have a friend with you when you do this is good so that you can also get pictures of your witness that you did not leave anything damaged.

Having the landlord inspect is a good idea on top of the images.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> She has a key and its only a matter of time before my things are on the lawn, broken, or simply gone. I don't have many nice things but what I do have is electronic. So one day I'm at work, my things will either be sold, destroyed, or left outside. Although this may not be legal because my name is on the house agreement, it will still be broken or gone until i can replace it. The second possibility is that she will simply stop paying her half of the bills and then I'll either have to pay that half which will take what money i have to have them switched and then get evicted anyway.
> 
> We do not own this house.


Do you have a place where you can store anything of yours that is worth something, or of sentimental value? Can you take it to your office? Perhaps a friend, your boss, or a trusted coworker would let you store your things for the short term? Also, she's "throwing out" the old dog? What he hell about taking it to a rescue society? Is she going to kill it or just drop it off somewhere? I know this probably isn't the biggest thing to worry about right now, but it's a life, and I'm a big advocate for animals (volunteer with a rescue society and have a side pet-based business), so when I hear that someone is going to throw one away, my heart stops.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Ursula said:


> Do you have a place where you can store anything of yours that is worth something, or of sentimental value? Can you take it to your office? Perhaps a friend, your boss, or a trusted coworker would let you store your things for the short term? Also, she's "throwing out" the old dog? What he hell about taking it to a rescue society? Is she going to kill it or just drop it off somewhere? I know this probably isn't the biggest thing to worry about right now, but it's a life, and I'm a big advocate for animals (volunteer with a rescue society and have a side pet-based business), so when I hear that someone is going to throw one away, my heart stops.


What I mean by that is that shes discarding our dog too. "At this point, shes just as much my dog as she is yours" she use to say.
Well, no not anymore it seems. SHes a 10 year old shar pei that I've had since she was 9 weeks old. Shes staying with me. 

I know for a few of the veterans these things can seem so obvious. You've seen it time and time again. For me, I'm struggling with the cruelty and instant enemy act.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> "But they weren't on her the entire......."


Is this how you normally talk with her? She b*tches and you scramble to not be wrong? If so, it's a good reason she treats you like crap. Stop it. "I'm sorry you feel that way." If anything. 

Is her family aware of what she's done? Have you talked to them personally?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> What I mean by that is that shes discarding our dog too. "At this point, shes just as much my dog as she is yours" she use to say.
> Well, no not anymore it seems. SHes a 10 year old shar pei that I've had since she was 9 weeks old. Shes staying with me.
> 
> I know for a few of the veterans these things can seem so obvious. You've seen it time and time again. For me, I'm struggling with the cruelty and instant enemy act.


Ah, gotcha! Yeah, I get where you're coming from in wanting to protect her (your pup, not your wife). Glad to hear that she's remaining with you, and that your new apartment allows it. I understand struggling with the instant enemy act, and a personality switch. I just separated from my husband of nearly 4 years, a week and a half ago. We had spoken awhile ago about not having any anger or animosity towards the other should we part ways, and when we did part ways, boy was he angry. Totally different than I had expected, and I didn't think he had that in him. Kind of amazing how people can up and surprise you, isn't it?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> What I mean by that is that shes discarding our dog too. "At this point, shes just as much my dog as she is yours" she use to say.
> Well, no not anymore it seems. SHes a 10 year old shar pei that I've had since she was 9 weeks old. Shes staying with me.
> 
> I know for a few of the veterans these things can seem so obvious. You've seen it time and time again. For me, I'm struggling with the cruelty and instant enemy act.


Tell me why


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> The smear campaign of hers is trying. I was never a big facebook person but now when I open it, its a slander fest. Shes blocked me but we still have mutual friends.
> "you look so much happier without him" or "happy you're away from him and whatever *****es hes got, he can cause his drama with them".
> 
> What the hell? Its unbelievable. I had to contact her last night because I learned that on one of the only two days she has our daughter, she goes out or goes to meet the OM after he gets off work around 10p.m.
> ...


Has anyone told you that you are able to choose your emotional responses?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> Is this how you normally talk with her? She b*tches and you scramble to not be wrong? If so, it's a good reason she treats you like crap. Stop it. "I'm sorry you feel that way." If anything.
> 
> Is her family aware of what she's done? Have you talked to them personally?


I've talked with mutual friends. Her family won't speak to me at all.

Those I've tried to contact just block me or won't answer the phone. 

I will say that I did act like an ass the night i found out. I yelled and threw a chair, looked over my shoulder and my daughter was watching. I was wrong for it. We've never argued or had a fight in front of her and that night was the only time. I will regret it forever.
However, with that being said, from what I have found out, my tantrum that night trumps everything. 

Yes, i did scramble to not be wrong. I didn't look at it like that. I was trying to explain that I didn't have them on her (the shoes) for very long at all and not to use them. I wasn't able to get to that point.

And i'll be honest. I'm frightened of what this woman can and will do if her anger hits a point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The only solution at this point is to call her bluff. Walk away. Get a lawyer. And let her fight to get to keep you. 

You have the power here, dude. You just don't see it.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> My first husband was as speed freak. That's what we called them in the 1970's. I was 22, naïve and had no idea that he was using or that what his using meant.
> 
> I too created a who I thought he was in my imagination. It took me 4 years to figure out who he really was. I won't give you the gory details but it was not pretty.
> 
> So just know that you are far from the only good person who got caught up with someone like this. It's actually a pretty common thing. People with problems like my first husband and your wife look for good, stable people who use for a while. Once our purpose is used up and/or once they tire of hiding who they really are they walk away.


This describes my life to a T.. with my exh, it was pot. I told him I didn't want that in my life so he said he'd quit. I believed him. 13 yrs later, he walks because he's tired of hiding it (he never quit). 

Be grateful you're getting out now and didn't waste 13 yrs.....

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Last night she dropped our daughter off an hour late and of course came inside. I said, "hey look, no reason to treat each other like crap. Lets get along and do this thing for our daughter. If she sees us getting along, she will grow up fine....or at least as fine as she could".
Oh man.....I am failing the 180.
The response was golden.
"You're in the house I AM PAYING RENT ON. You're dragging your feet. Its been two months and you're still in the f'ing house. You get paid, why the f are you still here. I'm staying at my mothers and it pisses me off. I cant even look at you without being angry. You could have easily went to your mothers (A 400 sq foot one bedroom apt with a 79 year old, me, and our 4 year old).
But no, you're still in my house dragging your feet. Yes I'm gonna be pissed. Also, when you do move, nothing in our daughter's room leaves this house. PERIOD. I will be getting full custody. Get use to 2-3 days a week because the little girl belongs with her mother. I enrolled her in head start and she will be taken to school by me. Typically, the MAN leaves the house but not you. You're not a man. You're getting paid yet here you are. You didn't even need an attorney. We could have sat down and did this like adults but no, now you had to get a lawyer involved......etc".

I get the keys for the apartment today. She thinks i get the keys on Wednesday and moving on Wednesday and thursday. This will give me time to get the things out without being micro managed while doing it. I'm also getting the contents of our daughter's room. I have her 80-85% of the time so we will let the judge decide. 
I'm anxious to get the apartment but, once she sees our daughter's room is almost empty, she will lash out. If she keeps her from me again, it will just make her look bad in the eyes of the court. 


@;


turnera said:


> The only solution at this point is to call her bluff. Walk away. Get a lawyer. And let her fight to get to keep you.
> 
> You have the power here, dude. You just don't see it.


This is very interesting. You feel as if this is an elaborate bluff? I don't see that at all but forest...trees...etc.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

The court doesn't care where the furnishings came from as long as the kid has a bed, dresser, table to eat at and chairs or a sofa to sit on. If you're in need of new furniture or household items and on a budget due to income and the hit you took covering the apartment, check local resale shops and Craigslist or find out if any friends/family have spare furniture they aren't using and would lend you until you can buy new. Personally, I liked buying gently used when my kids were young. They were going to spill kool-aid or something stain-y on it anyways.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, STOP talking to this woman about ANYTHING other than drop off and pick up times and locations and any illness the child may be feeling. She does have a point about problem solving during your parenting time. The conversation about the shoes should have fallen under illness and you should have given your STBXW bare minimum.

"While we were out, Lil Bit's shoes blistered her feet. I cleaned her feet with mild soap and water, put a bandage on the worst of the blisters." end of story. If she'd have gone on and on about it because she likes to hear herself piss and moan, communicate via text or email only. Added bonus, you have a record of all interactions.

Please, you must understand that she is actually the enemy now and you must treat her accordingly. In fact, go a step further and don't speak of sensitive information (like having a lawyer or your plans) when around your daughter because kids talk and she could innocently tell mommy what she heard daddy saying.

It sounds a LOT like you're engaging her in talks because you keep hoping she will have an epiphany. Maybe, just maybe, you'll say or do something and she'll have an "Aha!" moment, "get it", realize the error of her ways, and things will go back to normal. 

No. Just no. She's not the person you thought she was. She is an addict and a serial cheater who likely has underlying mental health issues that lead her to addiction and adultery in the first place. She doesn't think the same way you do and things have different meanings and levels of importance to her. Back slowly away from the crazy and drama. Implement the 180 for real. Only discuss the kiddo by email or text and do you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

When you engage her in conversation, you are telegraphing your next move. How's that working for you?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> When you engage her in conversation, you are telegraphing your next move. How's that working for you?


It would seem not so well. Yes, she is the enemy. Its difficult to rewire the thought pattern. I know her words don't matter, its her actions and her actions have shown who she really is.
Deep down, I know this. 
Ironically, when i see her, I don't even like her.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

You should have a VAR on you every time the both of you are together for whatever reason.

Every. Time.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> This is my side quest. Ive started walking every day and will soon be running again. I am just so confused.
> *How can i get love notes and be the perfect husband one day and less than a two weeks later be such a piece of crap.* How did i become an enemy? Ive noticed a common theme and thats when guys put the woman on a pedestal, the guy gets walked on. I'm not a weak man.....at least i didn't think so. I was just agreeable. We seldom argued and got along like we were long life friends. Now, i'm a monster. The constant lies she tells me as if i werent there and what shes telling others. I just don't understand.


Because she is a manipulative, horrible as$hole. 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

eric1 said:


> Because she is a manipulative, horrible as$hole.
> 
> If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.


Yeah I suppose so.
That goes hand in hand with with the previous comment that she isn't my friend and that its not her that I love, just the illusion of what I wanted her to be. 

Its so frustrating that she does such a fantastic job of convincing me how wrong I am, how I'VE ruined our marriage, what a bad person I am, etc. 
I'm tired of questioning myself constantly. Tired of the self doubt. Tired of being exhausted after she rips into me.
REALLY sick of being the bad guy but that isn't going away. 

I know from the outside in its frustrating to give advice. Just stop talking to her.
This is the best advice ever and I know it.
But its so hard...for 6 years other than a 4 week time period...
We laughed every day. We talked every day about everything. We didn't fight or argue. We touched and kissed and talked about the future. Of course it wasn't perfect and we had issues but.....it all changed so fast.
My stumbling block is how illogical it is. I'll make myself crazy by trying to understand it but I've accept that I wont. 

I'm not sure what stage i'm into right now but when I see her, I no longer have a longing for her or for things to return to our normal. 
When she looks at me and is hateful, rolls her eyes, or cuts me off I just look at her and wonder who or what this monster is.
It sparks my curiosity. What kind of person can treat another human like this? Even more so after a declaration of love and friendship. That part is curiosity.
I don't really like the person I'm looking at.
Then, she convinces me of what I said above. Then I can feel myself regress. Everything goes backwards and I start over.

There are behaviors I have to unlearn with this monster. 
Logic? Doesn't work here.
Kill em with kindness? Nope not that either.

Just stop talking to her. STOP talking to her. STOP TALKING TO OR WITH HER!
I know this. I remember it as I'm........actually talking to her. lol
I think that after I move, I'm going to therapy. My thought pattern, self esteem, other things have deteriorated and I'm unsure of so much now. I can even see how much harder this is than it needs to be. I will say that I recognize the damage my own pride is doing to my situation. I wasn't an awful husband and the desire to defend myself just makes it worse. 

I am moving forward, just not in all aspects.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Look up the term "gaslighting". It will all make sense.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I know from the outside in its frustrating to give advice. Just stop talking to her.
> This is the best advice ever and I know it.
> But its so hard...for 6 years other than a 4 week time period...
> We laughed every day. We talked every day about everything. We didn't fight or argue. We touched and kissed and talked about the future. Of course it wasn't perfect and we had issues but.....it all changed so fast.
> My stumbling block is how illogical it is. I'll make myself crazy by trying to understand it but I've accept that I wont.


One thing that is surprising to me is that, given your line of work, this is surprising to you. I would think that by working at the jail, you would be surrounded by people who think nothing of gaming the system, manipulating people, putting on false fronts, lying to your face, etc. Isn't that pretty much what all prisoners do?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

wilson said:


> One thing that is surprising to me is that, given your line of work, this is surprising to you. I would think that by working at the jail, you would be surrounded by people who think nothing of gaming the system, manipulating people, putting on false fronts, lying to your face, etc. Isn't that pretty much what all prisoners do?


No not all and it wasn't her. She was worlds apart from what I saw from the others. 
Not that it matters but I don't do that anymore.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> No not all and it wasn't her. She was worlds apart from what I saw from the others.
> Not that it matters but I don't do that anymore.


Every man ( and woman ) who comes here with a story of how much their partner has hurt them says he/she was special.

They aren't.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Yeah I suppose so.
> 
> That goes hand in hand with with the previous comment that she isn't my friend and that its not her that I love, just the illusion of what I wanted her to be.
> 
> ...




There is not a single betrayed here who will disagree with you on how hard it is.

Now it's hard and you can buckle down and kick its as5. Or you can feel sorry for yourself.

All your choice, bud


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

eric1 said:


> There is not a single betrayed here who will disagree with you on how hard it is.
> 
> Now it's hard and you can buckle down and kick its as5. Or you can feel sorry for yourself.
> 
> All your choice, bud


I want to kick its as5. 
I want to come out better than I was when I met her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I want to kick its as5.
> I want to come out better than I was when I met her.


Then learn to stop being AFRAID of her. 

She is turning more into a B because she thinks she is on the winning side and that you are a limp noodle. 

She character assassinated you on FB because she has no class and needs an imaginary army of friends to feel better about herself. 

You need your daughter, so focus on her and being a great dad. 

STOP talking to your ex unless it's logistics. If she goes off the deep end, hold up your hands and tell her STOP. You will not talk to her until she is calm and reasonable.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I've talked with mutual friends. Her family won't speak to me at all.
> 
> Those I've tried to contact just block me or won't answer the phone.
> 
> ...


It's very clear you are afraid of her.

Self-love is the answer.

What is your plan to love yourself?

Are you in therapy?

Do you have any "safe men" to rebut your worst impulses?

The only way out of this forest is self-improvement.

What is the plan?

Here's the deep dirty secret. She dumps on you because you don't respect yourself enough to prevent it.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Let me answer your deepest question right now.. "why"

Because your woman needed to feel safe with you.

Your attempts to put a smile on her face put HER in the driver's seat of the relationship.

And, that scares the crap out of her.

She has no idea what to do.

She wants a man with a plan. Not a supplicating sycophant that lives to make her happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you know what the most common complaint among my female friends? That their husband hasn't stepped up and protected them. That they expected the man to be strong and make hard decisions and take care of their home when it needs it and financially take care of them and say no to them when they're being b*tches. That's what we need - a strong man. And we get angry at them for not being strong. That's what you're experiencing.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

180. 180. And did I mention the 180?
Actually do it.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

turnera said:


> Do you know what the most common complaint among my female friends? That their husband hasn't stepped up and protected them. That they expected the man to be strong and make hard decisions and take care of their home when it needs it and financially take care of them and say no to them when they're being b*tches. That's what we need - a strong man. And we get angry at them for not being strong. That's what you're experiencing.


My wife and I fought viciously when I was playing "Mr. Nice Guy"

She eventually moved out.

A wise friend counseled me the only way to get her back was to live life with zest and ignore her - show her I couldn't care less whether she came back or not.

Of course, it worked.

We're happily married now.

(Obviously, the story has more zigs and zags than that... but the KEY thing was I quit worrying about her and her emotions)

I'm still living my life with zest and I've got a strong partner.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Very interesting replies. Harsh, but I have to accept the reality of it. I didn't speak to her at all throughout the weekend. 180 aside, its really about the only thing that makes me feel better is the disconnect. I move tomorrow morning and I'm taking the contents of my daughter's room. 

There is no going back with her. I have given her too much control and I think I need to restart. The way it happened stinks but when I look back, the less I respect her. 
The fear that I have is what she will do once she sees my daughter's stuff is gone. I'm talking false accusations, keeping our daughter from me, messing with my car or job, something. She will make sure I pay for this is in someway or another. 

I get how in trying to please and make the woman happy, I rolled over. I understand that now.
Tonight will be my last night in the house. Its hitting me kind of hard. I have no choice but to move on and what I feel right now is profound.
I think that if anyone ruins, disrupts, makes harder, or causes pain to anyone else' life to make themselves feel better or to feel good, that person is a POS. 
Looking back, she has been gaslighting me for years. 

My plan going forward is therapy and a new job. I'm going to start doing things I've always wanted to do. (write more, art, music, etc.)
I will say that the pain, anger, and stress I feel right now is the most intense thing I have ever experienced.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Record every single interaction with her. Document it. Indiana is a one party state, meaning that you are the only one who has to consent to being recorded. She doesn't even have to be aware of the recording for you to be able to submit it as evidence in court. 

So basically, when she starts freaking out, record everything. The recordings may end up saving your back side in case she tries to file false allegations against you. Not only may they clear your name, but they are evidence of her behavior. 

So turn on a recording device (you can use a smartphone or similar personal device) and be on your best behavior. Let her show her ass on the recording. She is playing everyone and turning people against you. You may be able to use the recordings to clear your reputation. In fact, it may be the only way for you to let everyone else know who she REALLY is.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Well I'm out of the house and into a sub par apartment. The last 3 days have been virtually unbearable. She came over just as I was on my way back to get the last load. 
She was decent but hadn't noticed the belongings were gone in my daughter's room. 
I had her send me a text saying that everything was acceptable in the house, I took and there was no damage (after I took pictures) and I left.

About an hour later I received a phone call. 
"WTF do you think you're doing taking her bed and dresser. I let you have the bed so she could sleep with you. I DID NOT GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO TAKE THAT!"
I just hung up.
10 minutes later she calls back, "I will be talking to my lawyer tomorrow. WE HAVE NO BEDS HERE YOU PIECE OF....."
I hung up again. 
Then the texts. Good job super dad. Where do we sleep?

Its important to note that my 4 year old daughter has never slept alone or in her bed. Ever. She has always slept with us.....or at least one of us. 

A couple hours later she calls back and this time I tried to reason with her. My mistake. "I took it so that it felt like her home". But i stopped there and told myself to stick to the 180.
I got off the phone and now her friends were texting me.
"You're a piece of ****. She bought that bed, not you. (there has been a lot of focus on the fact that she bought what for some reason.)
You're a disgrace to everyone around you. Everyone sees it. You've been in that home living off of her dime. What kind of "man" does that?
You took her clothes, the food, etc. I can finally tell you how much I hate you. Even your adult daughter hates you and doesn't respect you as a father".
(side note, I got custody of my oldest from her mother who tried to kill herself after her husband left her years ago. Shes never forgiven me for that".)

But, thats where things are. Comments like those cut to the bone. What was already hard is 100x harder and I'm having a hard time coping with it. 
Its not that shes gone, its that there is no remorse. My 4 year old will grow up in a divorced home. Our lives are not good and when one of us picks up or drops her off, she pleads for us to stay.
It kills me. The pain is too much. I put on a happy face and I'm strong for her but I've never experienced distress like this. This morning I was trembling.
I have never felt like more of a failure as a father.....if ever about anything in my life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Find a good therapist for your daughter. I doubt her mom will be able to keep her mouth shut.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You didnt fail, your wife is a b1tch. All those so called "friends" of hers texting you is childish and out of line. Block them all, pay it no mind. If it continues, threaten legal action. Your daughter will get used to the routine of drop offs and pick ups, it takes a little time. At least she gets time away from that nutjob woman now. You've had three days to mope, time to stand up straight, dust off, and channel your inner a$$hole. Get angry, anger brings strength.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Her friends only have 1 side of the story. Just block them. It's none of their business. 

Or you could always tell her that Super 8 has beds.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Well I'm out of the house and into a sub par apartment. The last 3 days have been virtually unbearable. She came over just as I was on my way back to get the last load.
> She was decent but hadn't noticed the belongings were gone in my daughter's room.
> I had her send me a text saying that everything was acceptable in the house, I took and there was no damage (after I took pictures) and I left.
> 
> ...


Sounds like her opinion is what controls you.

That's a formula for misery.

Guess what... she knows it. That's why she brought out the heavy artillery.

And, she does it because it WORKS.

You have taught her how to treat you.

Now, to live a happy life, you're going to have to teach her something different.

That can begin today with our help. Or, you can wallow some more.

Entirely up to you.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> Sounds like her opinion is what controls you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Google codependent.

You react to her rather than having your own feelings and own opinions.

It's easy to stop. To do so, you..... wait for it.... stop.

Stop listening, stop thinking about what she's thinking, stop thinking about how she feels, stop thinking about how she'll react. 

That's taking 100% of your time and energy.

Instead, when she calls, think "glad that b is out of my life" then as she goes on DONT EVEN LISTEN TO HER! Think Charlie Brown and she's going "wa waa waa wa. Wa wa wa wa waaaa wa". Seriously. Find humor. These are HER diatribes, HER anger, HER selfishness... it literally has NOTHING to do with you.

And just as you can't control what happens when your daughters at school, same when she's at your STBXW. Just get her help, show her a happy, well adjusted dad, and love. You LITERALLY have no reason NOT to be happy now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Google codependent.
> 
> You react to her rather than having your own feelings and own opinions.
> 
> ...


The only reason "not" to be happy is the road ahead requires adjustment.

Embrace the suck of change. To fix yourself, you'll have to fight yourself.

It's a fight well worth having.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Our first court date is today. I'm anxious. 
I think I've stopped liking her as a person. The way she re-writes our past is insulting. Everything she does is a slight or some sort of insult.
Logistical conversations about our daughter turns into a disagreement. Before, I would just kind of go along with things. Now if I disagree, she gets furious. I'm not hers to control but she tries to control me through our daughter. 
"I'll drop her off at 6".
Which turns into 6:30 or after.
Little things like this and it happens every single time. Now that I've learned a little about the narcissist, I can predict her actions and words fairly accurately. 

My depression has changed as well. When I do get depressed now its 90% regarding my daughter. I feel incredibly sad for her. Sad that shes innocent and going this. Sad because she doesn't deserve it. 

I will admit to frustration when the STBXW lies to me. I can tell shes lying and it just frustrates me. Its childish and really.....stop.
Then I go back to not liking her as a person. 
You guys have helped so much. the 180 helps....and my daily walks help more than anything.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Once you're well and truly away from it all, things will feel better. Things will get routine with your daughter. And you'll be a great counterpoint to her crazy mom. You'll become her safe haven.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

As petty as this may sound, I would absolutely love for her to ask me back.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> As petty as this may sound, I would absolutely love for her to ask me back.




Of course you would. Because it would mean she accepts responsibility for what she's done and it implies she wants you to forgive her.

Do you really think (with your brain not your emotions) she accepts any responsibility, now or ever? Do you really think she wants your forgiveness?
Of course not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Court went better than expected. She tried to paint me as an abuser and of course, it didn't stick....at least I hope not. (Because I'm not)
It came out that I have our daughter 80%+ of time. Even on days she could come get her daughter, she doesn't. Time that she has off of work, she still doesn't want to come get her. Her facebook posts were also added into evidence. Her staying up until 3 a.m. getting drunk and posting things (stating she is drunk) while she has our daughter cannot look good. She was also asked what time she gets off of work on mondays and fridays. My lawyer asked why she gets off so early yet I still have our daughter. No 3-4 hour visits, no 2 hour visits, not even a half an hour. I still have her when shes off work other than the 2-3 days a week we agreed on. 
She put herself into a part time parent role yet she is asking for full custody. 
The judge said that he'd like to have his decision by the end of the week however, until that time, nothing will change. 
I don't see him changing anything since I have our daughter considerably more yet, I don't know. its a waiting game at this point.

My plan is in the event the schedule remains the same, I will postpone, postpone, postpone as often as possible as to create a lengthy time frame that I have had my daughter more. So if I can provide a record of several months of me having her more, than it can only benefit. 
I do not feel she is worried about the welfare of our daughter, at least not to the extent that I do. If she cared as much as she would like people to believe, she wouldn't have demanded that I move into my mothers 1 bedroom apartment so that our daughter and I could sleep on the floor 5 days/4-5 nights a week. 

They also asked why I have such a low paying job. My attorney then asked me "why" I have it. It was because of her wonky schedule and we wanted our daughter at home more than at a sitter and it was her idea idea that I take one for the team and take the job until our daughter hits first grade at least. 

It doesn't seem that it went her way. I left the courthouse in a pretty decent mood. It actually felt like a small victory. Perhaps i'm being too optimistic. Almost everything they tried to use to make me look bad kind of backfired. 

Seeing her on stand lying so effortlessly sucked the love for her I had out of my heart. It feels clear to me (i could be wrong) that she isn't as worried about her daughter as she is "beating me". 
This is puzzling to me. How she can manufacture me as an enemy when I didn't do anything to hurt her baffles me but, I'm focused on getting past this.
It still hurts.
I'm still sad.
But.....i want her to go away more than I ever have.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Controlling people would rather lose themselves in an effort to get the object of their ire lose, rather than find a win/win. 

Keep that in mind as you move forward.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Court went better than expected. She tried to paint me as an abuser and of course, it didn't stick....at least I hope not. (Because I'm not)
> It came out that I have our daughter 80%+ of time. Even on days she could come get her daughter, she doesn't. Time that she has off of work, she still doesn't want to come get her. Her facebook posts were also added into evidence. Her staying up until 3 a.m. getting drunk and posting things (stating she is drunk) while she has our daughter cannot look good. She was also asked what time she gets off of work on mondays and fridays. My lawyer asked why she gets off so early yet I still have our daughter. No 3-4 hour visits, no 2 hour visits, not even a half an hour. I still have her when shes off work other than the 2-3 days a week we agreed on.
> She put herself into a part time parent role yet she is asking for full custody.
> The judge said that he'd like to have his decision by the end of the week however, until that time, nothing will change.
> ...


Go get counseling and be prepared for the worst. Sorry, when it comes to court I am an eternal pessimist when it comes to fathers and custody. I'm curious, was she ever abusive?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Go get counseling and be prepared for the worst. Sorry, when it comes to court I am an eternal pessimist when it comes to fathers and custody. I'm curious, was she ever abusive?


Yes actually. Funny that you should ask. What did you see to prompt this question? Early on in our relationship she would throw a punch or two if she got drunk. I dismissed it as being in bad relationships previously. Another red flag I made an excuse for. She hasn't been like that for a few years. 

Yeah I am prepared for the worst. Fathers and custody is ugly. As if we love our children less. 
I've got counseling scheduled but its three weeks away.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Yes actually. Funny that you should ask. What did you see to prompt this question? Early on in our relationship she would throw a punch or two if she got drunk. I dismissed it as being in bad relationships previously. Another red flag I made an excuse for. She hasn't been like that for a few years.
> *
> Yeah I am prepared for the worst. Fathers and custody is ugly.* As if we love our children less.
> I've got counseling scheduled but its three weeks away.


Your SBTX is a heroin addict! Make sure you use this to your advantage for custody. Provide as much proof and documentation of this as you can. If this isnt a slam dunk for the court, then they are truly screwed up.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Yes actually. Funny that you should ask. What did you see to prompt this question? Early on in our relationship she would throw a punch or two if she got drunk. I dismissed it as being in bad relationships previously. Another red flag I made an excuse for. She hasn't been like that for a few years.
> 
> Yeah I am prepared for the worst. Fathers and custody is ugly. As if we love our children less.
> I've got counseling scheduled but its three weeks away.


Much of what you say is less about codependency and leans towards fear of her behavior. Men tend to get labeled codependent or nice guys when they are actually being abused. Sadly, people still think it is all about pain and strength, when it is really about fear and control. If society learned to accept this, abuse wouldn't be so gender divisive.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Your SBTX is a heroin addict! Make sure you use this to your advantage for custody. Provide as much proof and documentation of this as you can. If this isnt a slam dunk for the court, then they are truly screwed up.


She hasn't used in years and hasn't been convicted of it for quite a few years.
With that being said, I was sure to bring it up anyway. My attorney had copies of her history. I'm not sure how much of an impact it will have since its been so long. The courts are not always logical. I _should_ know the judges orders tonight.

Before we left court the other day he said until his provisional orders are in place, nothing changes. That feels like a good sign. Funny, the ex was furious and has been. Usually when my daughter is dropped off, shes late. Last night she was an hour late.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Much of what you say is less about codependency and leans towards fear of her behavior. Men tend to get labeled codependent or nice guys when they are actually being abused. Sadly, people still think it is all about pain and strength, when it is really about fear and control. If society learned to accept this, abuse wouldn't be so gender divisive.


Her physical abuse hasn't taken place in years as well but, its taken a different form. 
She follows a NPD playbook. Same phrases. Same actions. The gaslighting. Everything. 
Every thought I had was dismissed as being some sort of problem I had. Every concern was imaginary. Every thing I did was wrong. (no matter how trivial).
And it got to point that I had unwittingly become dependent. So I was/am codependent BUT I don't believe i was prior. Before I met her I lived alone and casually dated for 8 years. 
Now, I seem unable at times to think or remember clearly. Making decisions sometimes gives me a hard desire to contact her and ask her opinion. 
I use to say to her that, "I don't sneeze without consulting you first". Then I thought I was being a good husband including my wife in choices and decisions. Now in hindsight, I know I was conditioned. There is so much more that I'm learning now about why things were the way they were. Now knowing that there was no compromise, she made excuses for everything she did, and the rest was my fault without exception probably has done significant damage. If you want to call that abuse then I have read that there is evidence that it is. 
What once was physical just moved into another form. 

As far as what you said about being afraid of her is dead on. I'm not frightened of this woman physically or what she might say.
I'm frightened of what she may do. She has the capability of completely destroying my life and has shown she lacks empathy of any sort. She is dangerous. Last week I was even thinking, "if she lost in court, would she get a gun and shoot me"?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> Court went better than expected. She tried to paint me as an abuser and of course, it didn't stick....at least I hope not. (Because I'm not)
> It came out that I have our daughter 80%+ of time. Even on days she could come get her daughter, she doesn't. Time that she has off of work, she still doesn't want to come get her. Her facebook posts were also added into evidence. Her staying up until 3 a.m. getting drunk and posting things (stating she is drunk) while she has our daughter cannot look good. She was also asked what time she gets off of work on mondays and fridays. My lawyer asked why she gets off so early yet I still have our daughter. No 3-4 hour visits, no 2 hour visits, not even a half an hour. I still have her when shes off work other than the 2-3 days a week we agreed on.
> She put herself into a part time parent role yet she is asking for full custody.
> The judge said that he'd like to have his decision by the end of the week however, until that time, nothing will change.
> ...


Whenever her behavior confuses you, remember these two words...

_Heroin addict_


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Hexagon, by all means, tell your lawyer that you want to make this hurt her as bad as she hurt you. Ensure that you have hired a killer shark. You say that she wants you gone? You say she makes much more money than you? Stop being a doormat! Your lawyer immediately demands ALIMONY, big time. Enough to financially cripple her. Second, as she had the affair, you get the kids!!!! Hurray!!! BIG TIME CHILD SUPPORT. Oh and by the way, since you are going to be the custodial parent, you keep the house, and she pays for it. NEXT---since she is carrying on with another man, you make it mandatory, that if she brings her boyfriend around your kids, there are severe penalties, financial, and she gets reduced to supervised visitation. 

I just love some of my female clients, who walk away and do not consider that in this day and age, if the woman makes more than the man, the courts are inclined to EQUALIZE. 

In simple terms sir, she blindsided you with an affair, separation and divorce. She believes that you are not going to fight. Be quiet, be stealthy, and then.....make her feel as if a freight train did a u-turn in her rectum.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Taxman said:


> Hexagon, by all means, tell your lawyer that you want to make this hurt her as bad as she hurt you. Ensure that you have hired a killer shark. You say that she wants you gone? You say she makes much more money than you? Stop being a doormat! Your lawyer immediately demands ALIMONY, big time. Enough to financially cripple her. Second, as she had the affair, you get the kids!!!! Hurray!!! BIG TIME CHILD SUPPORT. Oh and by the way, since you are going to be the custodial parent, you keep the house, and she pays for it. NEXT---since she is carrying on with another man, you make it mandatory, that if she brings her boyfriend around your kids, there are severe penalties, financial, and she gets reduced to supervised visitation.
> 
> I just love some of my female clients, who walk away and do not consider that in this day and age, if the woman makes more than the man, the courts are inclined to EQUALIZE.
> 
> In simple terms sir, she blindsided you with an affair, separation and divorce. She believes that you are not going to fight. Be quiet, be stealthy, and then.....make her feel as if a freight train did a u-turn in her rectum.


I'm actually actively trying to play the injured animal shtick. 
The weaker I appear to her, the more arrogant she becomes. The more arrogant she becomes, the more mistakes she will make. 
Her family isn't very bright. Her friends aren't very bright....you get where I'm going. She has surrounded herself with an abundance of bad advice. So, the general consensus in my camp is, if she has the rope to hang herself, she will. Its just a matter of time. 
Also, Indiana is a no fault state so the affair doesn't matter and I will ask for spousal maintenance.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Her physical abuse hasn't taken place in years as well but, its taken a different form.
> She follows a NPD playbook. Same phrases. Same actions. The gaslighting. Everything.
> Every thought I had was dismissed as being some sort of problem I had. Every concern was imaginary. Every thing I did was wrong. (no matter how trivial).
> And it got to point that I had unwittingly become dependent. So I was/am codependent BUT I don't believe i was prior. Before I met her I lived alone and casually dated for 8 years.
> ...


What you just described earlier, as terrible as this may sound, is mainstream media abuse. Most people believe, "If a man hit me I'm out " or "Why won't she leave." and an entire host of blame the victim stereotypes. It is all about the black eyes, heavy make up and hidden bruises. To me, you just described what happens in a large majority of abuse situations. This happens because people do what you did, especially men, "ah it was a drunken outburst" or "she was letting off steam." Honestly, my personal favorite is "she can't hurt me any way I am a man." We actually have male posters who believe this statement. Yet, what people forget is the mental torture and manipulation which occur. The abused person being to tailor their life to avoid these outburst, even when the physicality stops. Now, I get why you left. I get why people agreed with why you left. I agree with why you left. Still, it doesn't change the fact you were manipulated into doing what she wants.

Most situations are all about fear and control. The physical acts are few and far between, they may even stop, but the intimidation lasts forever. She left you, but you continue to clear, contact and seek her approval. You do all of this KNOWING it will hurt you if you don't. At its base form, codependency is about a person NEEDING the other spouse or significant other to make their day or life. Nothing you have said details you need her, you fear her and her actions.

Go get counseling and tell your lawyer what is going on.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Court went better than expected. She tried to paint me as an abuser and of course, it didn't stick....at least I hope not. (Because I'm not)
> It came out that I have our daughter 80%+ of time. Even on days she could come get her daughter, she doesn't. Time that she has off of work, she still doesn't want to come get her. Her facebook posts were also added into evidence. Her staying up until 3 a.m. getting drunk and posting things (stating she is drunk) while she has our daughter cannot look good. She was also asked what time she gets off of work on mondays and fridays. My lawyer asked why she gets off so early yet I still have our daughter. No 3-4 hour visits, no 2 hour visits, not even a half an hour. I still have her when shes off work other than the 2-3 days a week we agreed on.
> She put herself into a part time parent role yet she is asking for full custody.
> The judge said that he'd like to have his decision by the end of the week however, until that time, nothing will change.
> ...


If you're not "bad", how did things turn out so bad?

It simply couldn't be "her fault"

The reptilian brain does not tolerate personal responsibility.

This is who you are dealing with.

Until you change the dynamic, this is how it will be.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You should spend time on this site Are the Children of a BPD Parent Likely to Suffer Emotional Abuse? - BPDFamily Video. It will provide you wihr a lot of insight. Also research "Gray Rocking"


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

The court order came back. I have my daughter one night less a week bringing it down to 4 nights a week instead of 5.
Nobody pays support.
I'm confused as to why the judge did this after asking if our current schedule was working.

Now that I have been on the outside for a while, her behavior is telling. Her means of control are easier to see.
I do not speak to her very often outside of things regarding our daughter but a few days ago, she said a 3 things that allowed me to see who she really is and how she controlled me. 
This was the day after court...
1. "You know, we could have handled this like adults. We could have sat down and worked all of this out. But you just had to get a lawyer and drag it out".
-Of course I'm immature for seeking legal council. =Control

2. "You know, I'm trying really, REALLY hard to be nice to you through this".

-This is another threat. The translation is "If I don't start getting my way, I'm going to make you pay". 

3. "I don't think our friendship will be able to withstand what you're doing. Trying for custody. I just don't think I could be friends after this. Every time I see you, I'll think of you trying to take my kid away from me and I don't believe I could be friends after that".

-This is when I had to say something. I told her that ship has sailed. The friendship aspect is dead. The last thing she said was, "I need to go, this conversation is pissing me off". I told her I didn't care.
This was the last time she attempted a conversation with me and it's been over a week. 


My feelings are gradually changing. Someone that would do this to their family....to someone they claimed to love, to their children...is a POS. 
I do still miss what I thought she was but its going away. I wouldn't say that I hate her, just that I do not like her. When I see her during pick ups and drop offs, she irritates me without saying a word. When I do hear her voice or see her, it still stirs feelings but it doesn't ruin my day anymore. 
There is something odd. She doesn't seem to want me anywhere near the house. She is more than willing to drop our daughter off each and every time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lol, 'her' child. Not yours AND hers.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> lol, 'her' child. Not yours AND hers.


I noticed that as well. Our child is an extension of herself. 
I remember her saying that she didn't want to keep her from me. (she did when she first left. 4-5 days with no contact)
And that she didn't want child support.

In court not only did she ask for child support but full custody as well.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I noticed that as well. Our child is an extension of herself.
> I remember her saying that she didn't want to keep her from me. (she did when she first left. 4-5 days with no contact)
> And that she didn't want child support.
> 
> In court not only did she ask for child support but full custody as well.


Are you listening yet?

When people show you who they are, believe them.

Never listen to what they say, watch what they actually do.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> Are you listening yet?
> 
> When people show you who they are, believe them.
> 
> Never listen to what they say, watch what they actually do.


She has and continues to show who she really is. How could I have been so blind?
As much as I love my daughter, I have an unbearable amount of sadness that this is who her mother is.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> She has and continues to show who she really is. How could I have been so blind?
> As much as I love my daughter, I have an unbearable amount of sadness that this is who her mother is.


Next step. Do not dwell on that.

The only road is forward.

Be better next time.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I'm curious, where does her desire to hurt me, or see me hurt, come from? It's unfounded.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> I'm curious, where does her desire to hurt me, or see me hurt, come from? It's unfounded.


Hurt people hurt people.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or else it's shame so she shifts blame so nobody scrutinizes HER.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I have my ups and down days. Mostly due to sorrow for my daughter. The fact that the job I have is due to what decided to keep our daughter home more is now a punishment. 
The financial depression is hitting me like a bag of bricks.

I made the mistake of holding her slightly responsible and asked her to give me a financial hand with groceries. I'm not in this position because of what I wanted to be so I asked her last night.....
Instant regret. I won't make that same mistake again. 
I cannot find a job fast enough and the one I have isn't cutting it. The apartment I live in now showers me with depression the second I walk in it.
Having a hard time finding a solution. Thinking straight and on task has become a chore. 
The last couple days have been super stressful. I'll find something soon. There is really only one way out of this hole and its up. 


As long as you folks have been here, with all that you have seen, all of the stories.....
What are your predictions of the future? I would imagine that you have all seen so much that you can make an accurate prediction.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I have my ups and down days. Mostly due to sorrow for my daughter. The fact that the job I have is due to what decided to keep our daughter home more is now a punishment.
> The financial depression is hitting me like a bag of bricks.
> 
> I made the mistake of holding her slightly responsible and asked her to give me a financial hand with groceries. I'm not in this position because of what I wanted to be so I asked her last night.....
> ...


How many times have we told you to stop reaching out to her? Each initiative makes you look very weak - and feel terrible about yourself.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I'm curious, where does her desire to hurt me, or see me hurt, come from? It's unfounded.


All focus - still on her.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> How many times have we told you to stop reaching out to her? Each initiative makes you look very weak - and feel terrible about yourself.


I had somehow convinced myself that she could, should, and would help considering this is her mess. I was wrong. 
I can go a week or two and not talk to her, then I relapse. 

After I look back in retrospect, I see it. Shes not thinking about me so why do I focus on her? 
Almost immediately I feel shamed for having said anything to her. 

I have found that the less I get any exercise, the more these feelings pop up.
And to be fair, a lot of my depression and sadness is rests on the back of my daughter. 
Anger and hatred are becoming more and more familiar. My 4 year old didn't deserve any of this and she has the nerve to get short with me? 
And, yesterday was the first time I spoke to her about anything other than logistics in a while. I don't know if this was a good or bad habit to start but since this all started, we each call and speak to our daughter before she goes to sleep. We both call to tell her goodnight. Now that its started, I'm not sure it should stop. So for a while, i just hang up after she says goodnight and vice versa. Last night I just said something before the hangup. And its not so much that I feel terrible about myself rather my situation. I'm not fixing things quite fast enough. 
But yes you're absolutely right. Talking to her is emotional torture, I just needed some help and thought it prudent to ask it from the one causing the trouble.

Something else that I would like to know is why am i having such a hard time with this? My own relapses aside, why is THIS one hard? Before I met her I lived alone with my oldest daughter for 8 years. I dated but nothing serious so why am I banging my head against a wall on this? Is it just because I have a child with her?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

There is nothing wrong with a hand up...

You are the people I happily pay taxes for... you have a child that requires healthy foods to keep her just that, healthy. 

And you need healthy foods to do that for you too.

Where you are financially, have you applied for the assistance you need? Please do if you have not yet... 

An accurate prediction?

Without your STBX interfering in your happiness, you will be more calm, mindful, and happy. Unless you stumble onto another like her, your life will improve tenfold. You will find both your feet on the ground walking a path not without challenges, but they will be the right challenges and they will grow your relationship with your daughter as she walks with you in love and kindness.

It really is that simple.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Well I suppose a good thing to come from this is that I don't have to worry about her coming back to me. Or rather, me taking her back should she ask. I will admit to having fantasies about her asking me back. For example, pretending to want to work on our marriage and secretly putting weight gain in all of her food until she gains 150lbs then leaving her. Thoughts like that make me smile. But no, there is no way I would even consider the thought of being with her again.

She left on may 4th and its mid july. I know hate isn't healthy but I flirt with it every day. 
If I could just shake this guilt. Like I said previously, I feel as if I have denied a fair life for my daughter. 

I have lost 30lbs. and once I actually shake the guilt and stress, I can see improvement on the horizon. I want to drop another 20lbs and get back to running shape again. Years ago I started a novel and lost it due to not backing up my hard drives. I should do it again. 
I think about sex a lot but I think its a distraction. I should really stay away from females for at least a year I suspect. 
I also start therapy in a week and a half. I have a feeling that there is permanent damage. I have given thought to suicide but couldn't do that to my mother. And it would be considerably selfish to my daughters however, I need to reverse whatever happened inside my head. Never thought I'd be excited about therapy.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I had somehow convinced myself that she could, should, and would help considering this is her mess. I was wrong.
> I can go a week or two and not talk to her, then I relapse.
> 
> After I look back in retrospect, I see it. Shes not thinking about me so why do I focus on her?
> ...


No, it's because you're codependent.

It's likely your family of origin issues are the reason


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One thing that strikes me after reading a few of your posts is that you had a parent child dynamic with her. You, at 36, involved yourself with a 25 year old..... that is a huge age difference when one is in their mid 20's.

She clearly wasn't mature enough to be married, and you knew it too because you assumed a parent role. 

I'd caution you to avoid this dynamic in the future..... find a grown woman who's ready to be committed and married.

I don't understand why so many go after much younger partners and then are shocked when said partner isn't mature.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> One thing that strikes me after reading a few of your posts is that you had a parent child dynamic with her. You, at 36, involved yourself with a 25 year old..... that is a huge age difference when one is in their mid 20's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Because they're sometimes hotter and more easily impressed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Because they're sometimes hotter and more easily impressed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But, when you step into a role where they're the breadwinner?

You're signing a warrant that says "unattractive"


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> But, when you step into a role where they're the breadwinner?
> 
> You're signing a warrant that says "unattractive"


She didn't have that job when we first got together. In fact, I had a pretty good position then. She got lucky with her job now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Because they're sometimes hotter and more easily impressed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 No problem. If hotter is the priority you've agreed that little else matters, so you don't get to complain when they turn out to be a poor partner.

Prioritize the qualities that matter to you. 

I can't very well choose a guy based on his money and then complain when he doesn't take care of himself. If self care matters to me then I need to consider that when choosing a partner.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> This was the day after court...
> 1. "You know, we could have handled this like adults. We could have sat down and worked all of this out. But you just had to get a lawyer and drag it out".
> -Of course I'm immature for seeking legal council. =Control
> 
> ...


it's good you kept it short, sweet, and brutally honest. I hope you realize that the most simple answer to anything she says like that again is, "I'm sorry you feel that way." 

The end.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

What was the novel about?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

JohnA said:


> What was the novel about?


A science fiction story about two kids with religious overtones. 


The previous statement was true, she is younger and I shouldn't be surprised. 
It wasn't really a father/daughter thing. It was always more of a friendship. Lots and lots of laughter and thats how I got hooked.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> She didn't have that job when we first got together. In fact, I had a pretty good position then. She got lucky with her job now.


Brother,

It doesn't matter "how" it happened.

This information is provided in the hope you can incorporate it going forward in a better life plan.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

An update. Last night she dropped our daughter off and she was friendly. She commented on how much weight I've lost. A friendly conversation ensued. She did ask if I got the breaks changed in my jeep and I replied, "I didn't have the cash. I moved out with just enough to pay a couple months rent and buy a few things". But that was it. It was amicable and it was a nice change. 
I'm not going to get use to this but it sure was a nice break. 

I have also been talking to someone. About 7 weeks ago while I was getting ready to go to sleep, I was scrolling through facebook and noticed a post buy a woman I didn't really know. (unsure of how or why she was on my friends list)
She posted something about a narcissist. I wrote her on messenger and asked her about it. She was/is going through something similar and over the course of the last few weeks, we've talked with one another about our situations. We would talk a lot when we had our bad days and over the next few weeks, its evolved into just small talk and minor flirting. 
A while ago, I made some dating site profiles. Not to really date but just to meet and make friends. My profiles pretty clearly state, "going through a divorce and I'm just really interested in making friends at this point". 
A few women have written but I'm just not interested in taking it farther or anything. Don't even really feel like dating to be honest....
but....the one woman I've been talking to for a while is getting inside my head. 
We've been each others crutch and now thats not anywhere as bad as it was, shes just nice to talk to. Its to the point where we text every day and sometimes several times a day.
I follow the rules and don't bug her. And if I go a day without speaking to her, she'll send me a text or two, "you doing ok honey/sweetie/dear...etc".
(I told her once that being called those sweet names makes me melt. Shes done it ever since)

I know anything romantic would be a bad idea at this point BUT I am still a male with a libido and its been since mid april since being touched by a female. 
We both have discussed that we are in no place to date or get into anything romantic however, the texts and conversations seem to be leading to just that. I think that if we can keep each other at arms length, a good friendship will come from it. Yes....shes younger (30) and yes shes pretty. I look a lot younger for my age so i don't really think about it. Younger women aren't anything I seek out, it just kind of happens. 

I'm anxious to get into therapy more than anything right now. I'm not as sad as often as I was but I still really want to go. My bad days are REALLY bad. The hopelessness is overwhelming but this only really happens when my daughter is gone. 85% of how awful I feel is due to my daughter. My wife however is a lying and cheating *****. I stumble when I think of the how happy I was but.....she put on a brilliant act and had me fooled. 

Also, is impatience normal during this? I want my situation fixed NOW! Progress is slow and its frustrating.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Just be clear with any woman you'd pursue anything with that you're still hung up on your ex.

It's not fair to use one because you have needs.

If you make clear where you are and she goes along with it at least she has her eyes open.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> An update. Last night she dropped our daughter off and she was friendly. She commented on how much weight I've lost. A friendly conversation ensued. She did ask if I got the breaks changed in my jeep and I replied, "I didn't have the cash. I moved out with just enough to pay a couple months rent and buy a few things". But that was it. It was amicable and it was a nice change.
> I'm not going to get use to this but it sure was a nice break.
> 
> I have also been talking to someone. About 7 weeks ago while I was getting ready to go to sleep, I was scrolling through facebook and noticed a post buy a woman I didn't really know. (unsure of how or why she was on my friends list)
> ...


It took a lifetime to develop your codependence.

It won't be solved in a week.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I want to say thank you to all that replied. 

I know that i fell in love with the wrong person, that she was immature, selfish, etc. I know she wasn't what and who I thought she was and that I actually fell in love with an illusion.

I have good days but it feels as if my bad days just keep getting worse. I miss that illusion. I miss it so much and I'm sick of feeling this way. 
In hindsight, I know I focused so much on her. I made her and my family my focal point. Everything was put to the wayside other than them, now it feels as if I'm paying the price. I posted in another thread where someone as asking about a timeline on how long it takes to actually start feeling better. If I'm not completely distracted by something.....anything, I start to feel it again and it feels more intense than the last time. When I start to feel this way I think, "thats got to be a growing pain......hopefully the worst yet". But it isn't. The therapy session is not coming fast enough. 

The guilt is eating me alive. I envy those that can say "**** em....walk away, forget her, and enjoy life". I have always understood that no matter how bad things are, they can always be worse. Why can't I shake this intense sorrow? 
I am so tired of feeling this way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hexagon said:


> Why can't I shake this intense sorrow?


One, because you're mourning the loss of control over your own life that you thought you had, and two, because you lack self esteem and think you don't deserve her, so you can't expect more.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read it. It's short.
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Then quit being a chump. You'll never get to where you need to be unless you can do a hard 180.

Maybe it's time you woke up.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I want to say thank you to all that replied.
> 
> I know that i fell in love with the wrong person, that she was immature, selfish, etc. I know she wasn't what and who I thought she was and that I actually fell in love with an illusion.
> 
> ...


Hexagon,

For real.

All this "sorrow" is really your emotions just refusing to let go of what's bad for you.

We've seen stories of people who walked around their town. "She and I had our first kiss here... our first I love you here..."

Why torture yourself?

The bitter truth is this... all those memories are just that... memories. They won't help you. It's a symptom of not getting over yourself. Yes, you need to get over the fact that you had a plan for your life and it went off the tracks. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

It doesn't mean you're a bad person.

It likely means she's not any different than she ever was.

Maybe you just didn't see it.

I once walked in your shoes. I truly did. She was "it". I had a failed marriage. I married my ex for the wrong reasons. I found someone that was "all that". And, what she wasn't I inferred she either was or "could be" if I just worked "hard enough" at making her happy.

Thinking about it now makes me laugh. Truly... laugh at myself. Why? Let me ask you this. What is so absolutely righteous about your emotions that makes them "right"?

For you see, when we think with our hearts, we often attempt to will into existence that which isn't.

Our partners have shortcomings. So do our children. (Gasp) so do we!.

I took note of all my partner's shortcomings. And, I let her chart her own course. I dated. I socialized with others. I took note of what I saw with them that was similar and dissimilar to hers.

In the midst of that "truly" righteous process, my partner came back. She apologized. She said she wanted it to work.

Now... here's the key thing. Did I jump back right into the weeds where I simply re-introduced all my perceptions into the relationship and insisted it work my way?

ROFLMFAO

That would be masochistic now, wouldn't it?

I tried accepting her for what she is. Would it be enough?

Thankfully, it was.

Now, when she pulls her crap (which I knew she would), I just laugh. I may walk away. I may disappear for a weekend. Sometimes we fight.

But, she doesn't walk on me. And, she has absolutely no desire to leave again.

This whole process is about emotional communication.

But, FIRST you need to get right with your own emotions. You need to figure out who you are and what your boundaries are. And, you need to see what... and "who" can fit in that architecture.

Wallowing around in bitter memories and loss won't help you. Not one bit.

Start doing the things that will help you. Today.

And, don't look back.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I'm terrified, I'm affraid, I'm scared, etc.

Why don't you start thinking about what you are going to do to make a better life for you and your child?

Put your mind and efforts on something that you can get some benefit from.

In order to move forward you're going to have to find your manhood and cut this woman out of your life for good.

You can't do that you'll just be another wannabe but can't cut the strings to get there.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> Read it. It's short.
> https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
> 
> Then quit being a chump. You'll never get to where you need to be unless you can do a hard 180.
> ...


Very interesting so far. I'm about a 1/3 through it and a lot hits home. 
Much of it is familiar. Much of my pain from this situation is the loss of a family. The mourning of the loss of a family unit I never had. 

I'll post again when I've made positive advancements.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Very interesting so far. I'm about a 1/3 through it and a lot hits home.
> Much of it is familiar. Much of my pain from this situation is the loss of a family. The mourning of the loss of a family unit I never had.
> 
> I'll post again when I've made positive advancements.




Great! You're opening your eyes.

Get a rock. Or some object that is solid and smooth with some heft that you can hold in your hand.

Everyday and maybe often during the day, pick it up. Feel it's weight. Understand it's solid. Understand it's real.

Ground yourself in reality and use this to bring you back. Everything else is a fantasy or a whim or a fleeting thought. That not actually real. Now is real. The rock is real

It's ok and healthy to mourn the loss of your hopes, dreams, fantasies about what might be. But mourning means accepting and valuing them, but putting them in a box and putting the box on a shelf. KNOW that those are fleeting memories - maybe even some wonderful ones - that made you who you are. But they can't have power over you and you can't interact with them and you can't change them and you can't control them. They're not actually "real".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I got my rock. lol and I do hold it daily. Some days I take it with me.
Read the book. Its fantastic and some things hit home, others not so much....but enough for it to be relevant. 

What hasn't changed is the depression I feel once I walk into my apartment. Its the ghetto and I hate being there.
Being broke now is tough. Finding a new job isn't as easy as I initially thought. 
I still miss her.
I really miss the family unit. I never really had one and now that I'm 43, starting over has a bit of a sting.

What has changed was how I interact with her and how I speak to her. A couple weeks ago i continued to be nice in my interactions with her. Trying to discuss things with our daughter was tough, "hey could you have a talk with her about talking to strangers" was the last nice thing I said to her.
The hateful attitude reached a tipping point after I told her to lose her attitude. Logistics regarding our daughter was at the point where having to discuss anything with her ruined part of my day. 
She went off on my one day with her typical crap. "We could have handled this like adults but you just had to get an attorney", "I'm trying to be nice to you", etc.

That was it.
I finally said what I had to. I said everything that was on my mind. Everything I tip-toed around but never said, etc. It felt good getting that crap off of my chest. Some of you disagree with this but I didn't want to hold it in anymore. I said what I thought then at the end stated that she will start speaking to me with respect. 
That was almost a week ago. Interactions with her are amicable now. 

Now what is changing and has changed....
I don't have my rock bottom days anymore. I'm still sad but they aren't what they use to be. 
I started lifting again. I walk several miles a week (around 25-30). I've lost 33lbs since this started and I'm excited about keeping it going. Go to the movies with my daughter once a week. Go out with friends once a week as well. 
And I go to a therapist. 

4 things in a row helped. I didn't have any internal direction and the 4 things set a path for me.
1st I had a day where I cried. I hadn't had a day since 4 days after she left. Everything emotionally boiled over and I spent a day crying every few minutes.
2nd. The book. It helped...a lot in fact.
3rd. Telling her what I really thought without a filter. Getting that crap off of my chest helped.
4th. The therapist. Putting things into perspective. My STBX is sick....very in fact. I was just in the way of a destructive force. I legitimately fell in love but with a damaged person. Of course I kind of knew this however she has done significant damage to me. My therapist has discussed CPTSD and its being discussed. 
I actually feel better....slowly but progress.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Something strange has happened. 
Shes nice. Almost flirty......almost. Ever since I called her a lying *****...her attitude has changed. 

My daughter's first day of school was the other day and we both went to that and orientation. She wanted to joke around and a couple times, touched my arm ever so gently. I didn't reciprocate. 
She asked if she could come over before our daughter's first day of school and do her hair.
I said yes. It didn't really matter to me as I had to get ready and had no time to chat with her.

A day or so after that, she came by to drop off school stuff. She came dressed up. My wife is pretty but that day she looked really good. I didn't even recognize her when I answered the door. My initial thought was, "holy hell! how can I help you?" Then I realized it was her...

I asked her why she looked like that and she said she had a golf thing to go to for work and drove around in a golf cart serving beer.
"Of course you did".
But it seems as if she made it a point to come over and flaunt. 

WTF is this all about? Is it because Ive lost weight and can slightly see I've started lifting? Is she jealous? I don't think shes trying to reconcile as she keeps bringing me stuff from the house that belongs to me. 

I dont swoon over her anymore....actually, you could probably say I'm downright rude to her. A small confession here....I kind of enjoy talking and treating her like this. I sincerly believe to my very core that shes not a good person. Not a good person with some bad flaws but an actual POS. I don't use the word, "*****" when I see her but.....its suggested and I get a kick out of it. (not in front of our daughter though)


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

This is normal. You detach, she attempts to reel you back in to make certain she has a safe "Plan B"

Do not acknowledge a thing about how she looks.

Strictly business.

She's on script. Learn it.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I got my rock. lol and I do hold it daily. Some days I take it with me.
> Read the book. Its fantastic and some things hit home, others not so much....but enough for it to be relevant.
> 
> What hasn't changed is the depression I feel once I walk into my apartment. Its the ghetto and I hate being there.
> ...


"I legitimately fell in love with a damaged person"

This is key.

Find out why. What is it about YOU that facilitated this?

It's likely the worldview you gained from your family of origin. Your counselor can help you with that.

But, everyone has their own truth.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> This is normal. You detach, she attempts to reel you back in to make certain she has a safe "Plan B"
> 
> Do not acknowledge a thing about how she looks.
> 
> ...


You could be right but I'm not so sure I am or will ever be a "plan b" in her eyes.
She is utterly consumed with how others view her and she has spent a lot of time on the smear campaign against me. Unless of course it could be just sex that shes after but I wouldnt entertain that idea......not unless she was neck deep in another relationship/marriage and I could record it. 
Then again, shes proven that she can and will keep a secret so maybe she wants me as a secret plan B.
/shrug
And I dont acknowledge her looks. She feeds off of that like a damn vampire.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wanting you as Plan B is more a psychological thing than a logistical thing. She may not really want you back as in moving in, but she wants to know that you WANT her or NEED her. To soothe her ego.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> Wanting you as Plan B is more a psychological thing than a logistical thing. She may not really want you back as in moving in, but she wants to know that you WANT her or NEED her. To soothe her ego.


That makes sense. Is her ego damaged because of the way I treat her? Perhaps she knows what I really think of her now? 
Its hard to wrap my head around. You would think that someone thats just being nice is just being nice. Nothing more, nothing less.

The head start program is not for my daughter. Deep down I suspected that it was a benificail thing for her. Well when I found out the hours of head start, it became clear of what her intentions are.
I have to be at work no later than 8. If I don't take a lunch, I can leave at 3:30. Headstart is from no earlier than 8 and no later than 3:15. Guess who comes to the rescue? "Oh its no problem. I can pick her up and drop her off every day but friday". 
Work lets me come in a few minutes late on Mon and Tues. I didn't want her to take over anymore than she already is. 
If what you're saying is correct, and I believe you're right, than its a way to "help" me and also show the court that she can provide more and be there for our daughter more. 

Our daughter's birthday is in a few days as well and shes planning a birthday party. Without saying she didn't want me there flat out, shes suggested it. Its a shame too because its a 4 year old and whatever psyco agenda she has just hurts our daughter. 
In all of this, shes being "nice". The ego thing makes perfect sense. 
Do women typically kick it up a bit if their ego isn't being satisfied?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She is not going to be the type of coparent that you are going to be able to share events with, she is too psycho for that. You arent going to be able to have joint birthdays, holidays, school events, etc. 

And no, you have not damaged her ego, she is just an effed up person. Ignore her weak, self absorbed attempts to get your attention. She was damaged before you ever came into her life.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Hi Hexagon I've been keeping track of your story and wanted to pop in to say hello and say that I'm rooting for you. Also, I'm from the same state and want to mention that you should check to see if there is a local YMCA or Growing Kids center near you for your childcare needs because you need an alternate source of childcare that can meet your work schedule.

Your ex is noticing that you've toughened up and moved on and that's making you more attractive to her. One thing to remember about someone like her though is that she's the type who would take credit for the positive changes you've made. Don't let her do that to you.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Speaking of her ego; when one of us has our daughter, the other calls to say good night.
Its usually on speaker phone so one of us can translate 3/4 year old and in my case, I do it to sound cheerful as if everything is ok. I do this for our daughter.
Last night, there was someone there with her tickling her and messing with her during the phone call as if to rub my face in it or at the very least, complete disregard.

This is not the first time it's happened. The first time was much more graphic and were lots of...."noises". WTF compelles someone to act like this? As if everything else wasn't enough.
Someone said earlier in this thread that "hurt people, hurt people".
Indeed.

I thought about just cutting off the phone calls all together due to last night however, I enjoy calling our daughter at night and telling her I love her. If i cut it off, she will too. I think this may be something I'm just gonna have to suck up. 
I can act like it doesn't bother me all day long but once I have to put my head down and go to sleep, I'm so furious that it takes almost 2 hours. 
I've considered meditation. I'll probably start doing it with or without the calls anyway. 

Therapy is helping tremendously. My childhood trauma is why I latched on to this paticular woman. I have a long way to go in that department.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

When you hear her doing that - and it is absolutely intended to get under your skin - just feel sorry for her. What she's doing is pathetic, and if she has to do that to feel better, well, that's pretty sad. Meanwhile, you are MUCH better off and happier and free of the dysfunction. You can afford to be magnanimous from the higher viewpoint.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I want you to stop even considering what your ex wife, now wh0re, says or does. In fact, when you are up to it, go find yourself a stunningly beautiful woman. Your ex, is a psychological mess. Bet if she sees you with someone prettier, younger, etc etc etc, she will have a sh1t-fit. You are the enemy in her eyes, you got judgement in your favor, you will soon secure a new job, and you will pass her. Make her crazy by having success.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> This is not the first time it's happened. The first time was much more graphic and were lots of...."noises". WTF compelles someone to act like this? As if everything else wasn't enough.
> Someone said earlier in this thread that "hurt people, hurt people".
> Indeed.
> .


Yes, she has no regard for you and seems to enjoy rubbing your face in her [email protected], but what she doesn't realize is that she is also helping you to get over her more quickly. If you take a bird's eye view, you can see that she is so messed up that it is actually a good thing to be away from her. Any decent person would not do that to you when you're trying to say goodnight to your daughter.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> That makes sense. Is her ego damaged because of the way I treat her? Perhaps she knows what I really think of her now?
> Its hard to wrap my head around. You would think that someone thats just being nice is just being nice. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> The head start program is not for my daughter. Deep down I suspected that it was a benificail thing for her. Well when I found out the hours of head start, it became clear of what her intentions are.
> ...


Is water wet?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Speaking of her ego; when one of us has our daughter, the other calls to say good night.
> Its usually on speaker phone so one of us can translate 3/4 year old and in my case, I do it to sound cheerful as if everything is ok. I do this for our daughter.
> Last night, there was someone there with her tickling her and messing with her during the phone call as if to rub my face in it or at the very least, complete disregard.
> 
> ...


First step into a larger world.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you were smart you'd be doing a hard 180 and never engage her. 

You are playing her game not yours.

You are being teased and allowing it.

Cut out the damn phone calls. You have your time and she had hers.

Find your balls and cut out any interaction or engagement


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> If you were smart you'd be doing a hard 180 and never engage her.
> 
> You are playing her game not yours.
> 
> ...


Almost a month now.

OP... your serve.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> Almost a month now.
> 
> OP... your serve.


Where do I start? It's been a series of falling dominoes. What's changed is my attitude and as a result, many other things have changed as well.
I still allow the phone calls because I enjoy calling my daughter and telling her goodnight. 
My wife's attitude is that she's the one thats been betrayed. She will on occassionally bring up that I got a lawyer instead of sitting down with her and her lawyer and "working it out like adults".
She still brings up I moved out of the house on a day she didn't choose.
She still complains about how I've been handling court.

She no longer has a hand on the wheel and its liberating. She is now visibly worried that she might lose custody......or at least partial custody and have to pay child support. 
She told me the other day that she thinks that I hate her.
Good.
Whatever she says is more like water rather than the glue that it was before. The more BS she says or pulls, the stronger my resolve. 

In the meantime, I started lifting again for the first time in 20 years.
I walk around 40 miles a week. I started another book. And I've lost 31lbs. 
Therapy has helped tremendously. (She doesn't feel that I am co-dependent but rather just a run of the mill spouse of narcissistic abuse).
Oh and ive started anti depressents. 

I still get sad that I lived a lie and that the person I thought I knew wasn't real but, i realize that I miss the illusion. Sometimes I want put back in the matrix just because that was my first real family. 
At least what I thought was real anyway.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This is a good update, thanks for sharing. Just work on stopping the contact, there is no need for all this chit chat crap.

Its sounds like you are on your way to some sanity in your life, good for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The calls are her chance to gouge you. Give em up.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Codependents are ATTRACTED to narcissistic abusers.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

In an attempt to "cut the chitchat", you should be careful of not giving your very young daughter the wrong impression that you are pulling away from her. As someone previously mentioned, your ex is sad to stoop to stupid tactics in a childish attempt to make you jealous. And, as you stated, she's realizing she is losing control over you. 
That's good for you...and her. 

Something about addicts? They stopped maturing at whatever age they first became addicted. In my experience with addicts, they are emotional children that feel sorry for themselves and use it as an excuse for poor behavior. You were her co-dependent. She did you a big favor when she booted you off the ride. I hope you can see that some day. 

Just make priority number one your child. Number two yourself. And let your ex become just that...your ex.

Good luck to you


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

ReturntoZero said:


> Codependents are ATTRACTED to narcissistic abusers.


10000000000% true. My past self wishes that weren't true but my post co-dependent self knows it's the truth.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

TheGoodGuy said:


> 10000000000% true. My past self wishes that weren't true but my post co-dependent self knows it's the truth.


Once you know something you can't "un-know" it.

Recognizing the malfunction helps you stop it dead cold.

And, the result is far less stress and far more freedom.

She wants her way? Have at it gal!

Around here, we give defiant people what they want.

We just don't play along.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex.... your story and mine were familiar in a couple ways. My XW was not an "addict," but

allowed herself to be loaded up on around a dozen medications. I watched this vibrant, upbeat

woman fall victim to "prescription slavery." Had no idea who she was anymore and, neither did she.

My XW was 7 years older than me but I still fell into the parent / child dynamic. In small increments, 

it's kinda cute (like some men call their W "mom" but as a pun, not to where they actually WANT

the W to be their mom) but that cuteness wears off really quick. "To me" I would think, -well I 

wanted a daughter, by crap I got one-, After her mother died, her mom was her -safety net- and

always bailed her out, she looked to me to fill that roll. I did that one time, saw her do the same

thing again... did not bail her out but showed HER how to fix HER own mess. This really pizzed her

off. I was brought up to be accountable and responsible for your actions. This was by no means

the major reason why we D but.... it was in the top three. I do not regret this one bit to this day.

Lil story..... late 70s, XW was 12, her mom's friend cut her hair (was to waist), she went to

see her dad later and he called her a wh0re for getting it cut. She did not speak to him for several

years. She told me this 20 years after the fact. Also said it never bothered her after she resumed 

talking to him. I knew, even at 25, she was lying. Her dad died a bit over a year, before we met.

Children who are emotionally abused, carry this with them into adulthood if not dealt with as a 

child (which is very hard, no or low coping mechanisms at that age). Whatever the age a child is

when this occurs, they become emotionally stunted. Oh Lord, they learn how to hide it. But whenever

anything stressful or challenging arises, they revert back to when they were stunted. That's all

"they know." Her mother's death triggered this, five years later, we were D.

It's been almost five years since our D. I have moved on quite easily (no kids, but raised her son)

but I can't say the same for her. Her son succumb to thugs and drugs, dropped out of HS, stole

her medications and we kicked him out. Several months after the D was final, she moved 500 miles away

to lay up with a guy on disability who just wanted a "mother to take care of him- She left her son

behind when he needed her the most, granted at the time of D, he was 23. He could have came to me

for help but I held him accountable for the stolen items from the home. Step son either stole them or

brought a thug in who did. Either way, he was just as complicit. He never came to my door..... he

did not wish to face reality, he ran....... JUST like his mother did. As of last year, my XW is back in town.

Her "soulmate" passed away and his family told her to GTFO. She set up a GoFundMe page to return

home and another to get furniture for her studio apt. Chuck, hows you know this?

Not only has XW (her nickname is still Window Cork) tried several times to "get together" with me 

to "talk," she tried several times while three states away with her "soulmate."

I do not hate her, I don't even dislike her. I pity her. I saw her at her best and I was very privileged

to do so. I love who she WAS, not who she IS. HUGE difference. 

Her current beau can not find work due to his rap sheet, her son can't due to sheer laziness.

But on her email, there are over 8,000 where she is trying to have the two guys, find a job and...

try to borrow money somewhere when you have horrid credit. She is trying to borrow money and seek

work as well. How do you know this........ she STILL uses my address as hers. And the electric company

will not change the email on their electronic bill sender so I check the price on her mom's old email.

Still same password. The two greatest loves of my life..... can not help themselves because they can not

stop running. They can not "stand still" and assess their life, they know they will not like the outcome.

The other love, my HS sweetheart.... she runs to this day. She still wants me to take her back,

while M to her 2nd H. She wanted me to with her 1st H as well. She will run until her heart gives out.

She is drop dead gorgeous... to this day. She has no problem getting male attention. I know better.

She told me the only time she felt safe and didn't run was when we were together. She wants to feel that

again....... I really can't blame her but.... it just can never be. My mom liked her.... even pop did and that's

saying A LOT. But pop told me.... she has a good soul but she's damaged. He was right.

Had 1st love came from a stable home.... she and I would have made it, or I like to think that.

We would be celebrating 30 years together next year. Hex..... your W is sinking into the mud hole. 

And if you reach out to help her, she WILL pull you down with her. Bet your farm and mine too.....


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Something happened in the last couple weeks and wanted to share. 
A couple weeks ago during one of our daughter exchanges, she says something to me before putting my daughter in the car.
"Tomorrow is our daughter's picture day. I need to go get her shoes so I can bring her over to your apartment after. Also,I know what I want her to wear and I would like to come over in the morning and do her hair before you go to work. I'll bring her outfit with me".
(She worked midnights on this paticular night)

I replied, "you should have thought of this. Now this is my time and as far as I know, they don't take pictures of her feet".
"Fine, whatever. Don't want to infrindge on "your" time". 

She put our daughter in the car and I drove away.
After some thought, I decided now is the time I draw the line. I called her back....
"Look, if you want to discuss an idea, we will discuss it. You cannot dictate anything on the days I have her. You CANNOT control me or what I do anymore. What even gives you the right to decide what she will or won't wear on my days"?
-"What gives me the right? I pushed her OUT OF MY VAGINA! **** YOU! FUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOU!"
Then hung up.

After 45 min or so I began to get a little worried that I may get a visit from the police that......who knows what she will accuse me of but just aware she can be unstable. 
I called her back to difuse whatever potential accusations I may or may not get. So the last time we spoke before then other than stuff that regarded our daughter was weeks before then and this was the last time we spoke about anything other than her. 
I listened quietly as she again blamed me for everything.......but I don't care to even process it any more.
It is here that I realized that whatever conflict we have ever had....no matter how great or minimal, is when I have stood up to her.
Finally, its here that I realized it. 

Why is this important to mention?
In the time since she left May 4th, the last 2 couple months have seen the enterence and exit of a couple women. I ended discussions with these women and whatever it was between them because its just not fair. I don't want a wife substitute and I still need time.
But.....when being honest with them about my situation and describing my soon to be ex, I recognized a theme.
"She is not a good person. As in, she is not a good human. Shes a bad human in the way you would think Hitler as a bad human".
This is important because the logic centers have taken over, or at the very least, is considerable. 

Fast forward to 4 days ago. The last few days have been tough. I did something what initially seems irrational but.....wait for it.
I sent her a text that said, 
"I miss your feet on me. I miss our wonderous conversations. I miss having rice in damn near every dinner. I miss being a parent 2 feet away from you. And....i wish I didn't love you".
Of course she didn't respond....she hasn't responded to anything like this since she left but......I didn't want or need her to this time. In fact, I remember thinking that I didn't want her to respond. At the time I didn't know why I felt compelled to say that but I just wanted to.
The next few days I felt an intense lonliness, despair, and sadness. This is especially true for yesterday. It felt like death (some of you know where this is going). It was almost too much to handle. The good thing is, I had a therapist appointment yesterday. 
I told my therapist that i was so happy to have felt this on the same day I got to see her.
I wen't on about what I was feeling and that it felt as if something or someone had died. I told her that I have never felt so lonely and that the sadness was overpowering.
"Welcome to the 4th stage. 
Denial.
Barginning.
Anger.
Acceptance.
That feeling of death is accurate. That's the death of your friendship and marriage youre feeling. Of course this isn't when it actually happened but it is to you. This is progress".

-"So like....a mud bath?"
"Exactly".

The text that I sent her was my goodbye and I didn't realize it. 
"Why has this taken so long?"
-"Lots of reasons. Mental abuse is part of it. Roominations. You've been in shock for a while and got absolutely no vindication or closure".

So thats where I am. Sad, regretful, and lonely but....better.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> Fast forward to 4 days ago. The last few days have been tough. I did something what initially seems irrational but.....wait for it.
> I sent her a text that said,
> "I miss your feet on me. I miss our wonderous conversations. I miss having rice in damn near every dinner. I miss being a parent 2 feet away from you. And....i wish I didn't love you".
> .


Jesus H Christ

Please stop!

She gets off on those ego boosts you send her.

She doesn't love you. Never has. She loves her self.

Have you read the codependency books?

Are you still in counseling?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Situations like the school photos.... yes you stood your ground but you, not her, escalated the 

situation. EASY to do.... you thought you were defending yourself and ended up right back in the 

Drama Triangle. But you recognize that now.... that.... is progress. The sappy text..... egh... if it

took that, to get you past "that" point.... then job well done. Nice to see things have -calmed down-

with her. Maybe she has a guy occupying her time, maybe she is working on herself, maybe she

is hanging with other females partying it up. Does not matter.... Hex... all that matters is what

YOU do. What are YOU doing to make YOU a healthier, stronger person? Oh.... dating.... STOP

taking dating so Gdamn seriously. You are light years away from a healthy LTR. You should not use

dates to unload on your STBXW and how pathetic she was. To any female who is healthy and looking for

a healthy man, she will see you as not only damaged, but broken. When I fully entered the dating

game in late 2014, I found a LOT of females who were extremely bitter. They said they were over 

their XH but would then lash out in a 45 minute tirade. I was near the end of my doctoral studies

and knew what that would lead to. I wanted zero to do with them but, I will say, I enjoyed some of the 

conversations. But they were by no means dating material. These late 30s / early 40s females....

were who I dated.... 20-25 years ago. You show them kindness, attention, respect and they vagina

bomb you..... because they have not seen those acts in a long time. Somewhat of a red flag

but did I know this in 1994? No.... but I was not looking for anything serious, I was still

in college. I would estimate some of the older women I dated would have done the "bandaged" job.

Wrapped themselves up super tight so the red flags are hidden. Until about 9-12 months in....

when the bandages start falling off.... one, by three, by nine. After the honeymoon stage would

come n go.... who knows.... I wasn't looking for a LTR and they said they were not either.

But the women I see on these boards.... remind me a lot of the ones I dated in the early-late 90s.

Hex.... you are not ready for any type of LTR..... just date to have fun and enjoy yourself. Date females

who are in your situation, going through a D, just out of a D.... where both of you aren't ready

but would like to enjoy spending time with the opposite gender. Chances are both of you will

develop a bond and..... keep it there. Beware doing this and both empathizing too much for the other.....

that is when you end up in an unhealthy LTR and are all OK until the honeymoon stage passes.

Or you decide to get married....... Know why 2nd M have a much higher D rate.......

lessons not learned from 1st M.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> Jesus H Christ
> 
> Please stop!
> 
> ...


Agreed. Hex, DO NOT send any more texts like that. Make that the last one.

BP, he talked about his counselling session farther down his post.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Agreed. Hex, DO NOT send any more texts like that. Make that the last one.
> 
> BP, he talked about his counselling session farther down his post.


That was just my way of saying goodbye. I Appreciate the good but, bye nontheless.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks for sharing that Hex. That text got you to where you need to be. It's funny how sometimes something that seems so obviously wrong turns out to be exactly what was needed. I wonder if she sensed it.

My goodbye to my H was through one final round of sex. To an outsider looking in it sounds twisted maybe, but that was my way of saying goodbye to everything we had had together. It too felt like a death.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Something happened in the last couple weeks and wanted to share.
> A couple weeks ago during one of our daughter exchanges, she says something to me before putting my daughter in the car.
> "Tomorrow is our daughter's picture day. I need to go get her shoes so I can bring her over to your apartment after. Also,I know what I want her to wear and I would like to come over in the morning and do her hair before you go to work. I'll bring her outfit with me".
> (She worked midnights on this paticular night)
> ...


This was painful to read. STOP, please STOP for your mental health.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Not said:


> My goodbye to my H was through one final round of sex. To an outsider looking in it sounds twisted maybe, but that was my way of saying goodbye to everything we had had together. It too felt like a death.



It was all so strange in the sequence and subsequent suddenness of feelings. 
I just felt so compelled to say...I miss you...miss us....and really miss what I thought we had.
Then almost immediately after felt sadness, but not before. 
Death is the only way to describe it. 
A huge part of me had died and i've accepted it. 

Its funny that in all of the advice that I have gotten, nobody has mentioned this. I DO know that trying to make it happen, trying to make myself get over it, forcing myself to do this or that, slowed things down.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> This was painful to read. STOP, please STOP for your mental health.


I'm not entirely sure how or why you guys are taking this as a bad thing. Its a tremendous step forward. 
Its a before and after.
Its an awakening. Hmmm.....i thought you guys would have appreciated it. 
Feels like a victory to me or at least, the light at the end of the tunnel is close.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Hexagon, unless its about the child there is nothing to talk about with her. Your text reeks of needing closure. She will not give you that, She is a cheater. A dishonest selfish person who never puts anyone's needs above her own unless there is an advantage for themselves. You want closure, see a counselor.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You're only hope would be limited contact but I'm not sure you have it in you.

Many talk about it but rarely achieve it.

No matter what you always kowtow to her.
Backing down every single time just reinforces her behavior.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Hexagon, unless its about the child there is nothing to talk about with her. Your text reeks of needing closure. She will not give you that, She is a cheater. A dishonest selfish person who never puts anyone's needs above her own unless there is an advantage for themselves. You want closure, see a counselor.


I know this. Its ONE of the reasons for that last text. The text WAS my closure.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> It was all so strange in the sequence and subsequent suddenness of feelings.
> I just felt so compelled to say...I miss you...miss us....and really miss what *I thought we had.*
> Then almost immediately after felt sadness, but not before.
> Death is the only way to describe it.
> A huge part of me had died and i've accepted it.


I get it dude. And I feel for you. The part in bold is the part that you must keep telling yourself. I had to do the same thing. What you *THOUGHT* you had is dead, and that is why the grieving process applies so well. It's the death of your hopes and dreams together. It's hard to see the person we build up in our heads (to be something they really aren't) "die" in that way.



Hexagon said:


> I'm not entirely sure how or why you guys are taking this as a bad thing. Its a tremendous step forward.
> Its a before and after.
> Its an awakening. Hmmm.....*i thought you guys would have appreciated it. *
> Feels like a victory to me or at least, the light at the end of the tunnel is close.


Again, we get it, but make sure that's the last one of those. Don't bring it up again with her, don't remind her of the text so that you can talk about it. Keep your communications only about relevant kid topics and nothing else. If you feel like you need to say anything outside of that to her, type it up in a document and talk to your counselor about it. DO NOT send it to her, otherwise you're just ripping the wound open again.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I know this. Its ONE of the reasons for that last text. The text WAS my closure.


Maybe that's how it ended up, but that's not why you sent it. You sent it in a moment of weakness when you were sad. Luckily, you felt closure afterwards, but that was unknown when you sent it. That's why people are saying you shouldn't have done it. In the future you will again feel sad and want to do something similar, either with her or someone else, but you need to carefully consider why you are doing it.

What would you have done if she immediately replied, "I'm so sorry! Let's get back together."?

Plus, it doesn't teach her a good lesson. She learns she can treat you (and all men) like crap and you'll still send sweet notes to her. She's probably showing the text to all her friends and saying how you still love her.

Luckily, you got the closure you need and can now move on.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> I know this. Its ONE of the reasons for that last text. The text WAS my closure.


I will believe you when you are posting about you and your daughter.

Your focus still seems fixated on the ex.

I'm happy you feel closure now but you must follow thru with it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> I know this. Its ONE of the reasons for that last text. *The text WAS my closure.*


The text was not your closure.
The text was your clothes.

They are ragged.
They do not cover your butt.
They leave you cold. Out in the cold.

You have a donged-up belief that she actually cares how you feel.
You told her that you 'did' love her and 'did' respect her and 'did' have fond memories with her.

Like she cares.

She does not, has not for a long time.

Remember, she was having sex with another man while talking to you on the phone.
Wow, how low can she go?

God, the women despises you. And her boyfriend? He is a jackass, also. Two rotten peas in a pod.

She cannot be made whole. She is missing key parts. No amount of wishing can change her.

You said the text helped you. OK.

And yes, it puffed up her ego.

No more, no mas.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All been covered, so I have only one thought: Don't underestimate the importance of appearances during Picture Day. 

Just.don't.

Those pictures will be in your lives for the rest of your lives. What the kids look like, like it or not, is really important to some people. And may even matter to the kid. To this day, I remember my 5th grade picture, where my mom took me over to her friend's house, who curled my hair like Shirley Temple and gave me this psychodelic (it was 1968) nylon turtleneck dress to wear, and even remember sitting there looking at myself after she took the curlers out and crying.

Maybe it's not a big deal to men. But it often is to women. So be forewarned for the upcoming years.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Ditto above!!


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

You guys and girls are harsh but I appreciate it all. I actually didn't realize how much I missed this.
I will say that it feels good to...well...feel kind of good or some sort of positivity again.

Also, Im not sure I eleborated enough that I don't text her or talk to her unless its something to do with our daughter. Thats really what made this so bizarre to me. I hadn't felt compelled to send something like that.

And...i need her ego boosted. I will jump at that chance whenever I get it. You guys have seen my emotional struggle through this whole thing and have been there to quickly offer advice however with that being said, I really haven't shared much in the way of court.
If I can boost her inflated self-importance, I will and have.
Her arrogance will bite her. For example, I told her that I wasn't getting an attorney. I told her that I loved her so much and KNEW that she loved me so she wouldn't hurt me in court or....take my daughter away from me.
Of course that changed when I walked in with a lawyer but the tactic is still sound.
The weaker she thinks I am, the more arrogant she will become.

In spite of the emotional journey, I have massed quite the collection of "****" on her and plan on hitting hard once the final hearing is set. Whatever anger or revenge I want will come that day in court. I plan to hit and hit hard and she doesn't see it coming.
Oh...I will have my justice and I'm getting it legally.

When it comes to my wife and my family...its devistating to me. However with that being said, when it comes to the divorce, the divorce proceedings, and custody....
Nuke it from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Something happened in the last couple weeks and wanted to share.
> A couple weeks ago during one of our daughter exchanges, she says something to me before putting my daughter in the car.
> "Tomorrow is our daughter's picture day. I need to go get her shoes so I can bring her over to your apartment after. Also,I know what I want her to wear and I would like to come over in the morning and do her hair before you go to work. I'll bring her outfit with me".
> (She worked midnights on this paticular night)
> ...


This is sickening.

Respect yourself and stop with this nonsense.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Here's a general rule to live by.

Anytime your "report" about her activities take up several paragraphs filled with explanations and conjecture, it won't be well received.

Personally? I'm still waiting for the FIRST post from you about what you are doing to improve your life and the life of your daughter.

Those subjects have ZERO to do with your BSC ex.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She's still a huge focus in your life.

Until you learn to stop caring about her, stop engaging her (even in anger), your progress will remain the biggest thing that's "over - inflated."


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Hexagon said:


> It was all so strange in the sequence and subsequent suddenness of feelings.
> I just felt so compelled to say...I miss you...miss us....and really miss what I thought we had.
> Then almost immediately after felt sadness, but not before.
> Death is the only way to describe it.
> ...


I remember mine like it was yesterday. You would have to be familiar with the dynamics in my marriage to understand what led up to it all but suffice to say I remember the exact moment my marriage died. H asked me a question and in that question there was so much unsaid but revealed. He asked me to have sex. The moments before the question was asked was a perfect sequence of words spoken, words that tied everything up so perfectly, made everything crystal clear for the first and final time. There was no effort in trying to gain that clarity, it just happened.

Me agreeing to have sex with him was the same as that text you sent. One last look, a final kiss goodbye to something that had meant so much but was now a dead thing. It was like honoring the death of the feelings themselves as the last ember extinguished itself and the feelings passed away into nothingness. You literally see/feel/experience the moment of passing. It leaves you feeling so empty. A part of you does die.

That was the last time we had sex.

Your text to your STBX is going to look like groveling to her but what she thinks no longer matters and, imo, your allowed to use her in that way if that's what it took to get you to this part. Me agreeing to sex made me look weak. She is completely unaware of just how powerful that text was and so be it, that text wasn't meant for her anyway.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Not said:


> I remember mine like it was yesterday. You would have to be familiar with the dynamics in my marriage to understand what led up to it all but suffice to say I remember the exact moment my marriage died. H asked me a question and in that question there was so much unsaid but revealed. He asked me to have sex. The moments before the question was asked was a perfect sequence of words spoken, words that tied everything up so perfectly, made everything crystal clear for the first and final time. There was no effort in trying to gain that clarity, it just happened.
> 
> Me agreeing to have sex with him was the same as that text you sent. One last look, a final kiss goodbye to something that had meant so much but was now a dead thing. It was like honoring the death of the feelings themselves as the last ember extinguished itself and the feelings passed away into nothingness. You literally see/feel/experience the moment of passing. It leaves you feeling so empty. A part of you does die.
> 
> ...


This is articulated so well in comparison to what I typed. You said it perfectly. In my mind as I sent that text, I didn't want a response....just wanted to say what I wanted one last time, set my phone down and be done with it. 
It felt like the crossroads scene in Cast Away or the light on the horizon in Lemon Jelly's "Spacewalk". 
And like you said, the moment of passing was as profound as any experience I've ever had. 
The heart and mind said in unison, "it is done". 
A sudden duality. Sad for the past yet somewhat excited for the futre. Bittersweet even. 

A lot of good folks on these boards just don't get why I can't say, "adios you foul *****" but I'm not really wired that way.
Its not me.
I didnt know it was coming let alone see it when it did but afterwards, its almost impossible for me to describe.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> A lot of good folks on these boards just don't get why I can't say, "adios you foul *****" but I'm not really wired that way.
> Its not me.
> I didnt know it was coming let alone see it when it did but afterwards, its almost impossible for me to describe.


I'm really glad it worked for you, but you also have to realize that sending loving texts and having sex is a very dangerous way to move on. Emotions are crazy things, and there's no way to really know how you will feel afterwards. On the other hand, there's very little chance that saying "F-U!" is going to rekindle old feelings.

And part of the discussion in this thread is not just for you--it's for the many readers of the thread. It's important that someone going through a similar situation doesn't think that this is the way to move on. Even if it's the right thing for you, it's probably not the right thing for many other people.

I think addicts sometimes go through something similar. They are ready to give up, do their drug, and something inside them finally changes and they quit. But it's very dangerous to do so, because they could very easily get hooked again. Ending relationships can be the same way, where it's easy to get swept up again.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

wilson said:


> I'm really glad it worked for you, but you also have to realize that sending loving texts and having sex is a very dangerous way to move on. Emotions are crazy things, and there's no way to really know how you will feel afterwards. On the other hand, there's very little chance that saying "F-U!" is going to rekindle old feelings.
> 
> And part of the discussion in this thread is not just for you--it's for the many readers of the thread. It's important that someone going through a similar situation doesn't think that this is the way to move on. Even if it's the right thing for you, it's probably not the right thing for many other people.
> 
> I think addicts sometimes go through something similar. They are ready to give up, do their drug, and something inside them finally changes and they quit. But it's very dangerous to do so, because they could very easily get hooked again. Ending relationships can be the same way, where it's easy to get swept up again.


You're absolutely right. 
I remember when the thinking changed though. It was when I started to see her as a monster, not as a human. I believed she was something she wasn't. I had to re-wire 6 years of thinking. Once that started, everything else changed. And for me, it wasn't something I could force....it just kind of happened on its own. The anger stage.

The other night when I sent the text, I was making dinner for both of my daughters. That was something we use to all do together. I didnt realize the missing piece until after it was done.
"Oh....the monster isn't here".

People can talk all day about when you or anyone else should "just let go" but the body/mind will do that on it's own when the time comes. A good way to describe is its been raining for almost 6 months and then....just stopped.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We're all aware of that, Hex, how it works. But it's kind of our job to point out a BS's unwillingness to let go (contact, letters, etc.), so as to make sure he KNOWS his odds are nil and he'll be much happier the sooner he's able to let go. Do you know the most common phrase we hear around here? "God I wish I would have listened to you guys sooner; my life is a dream now compared to what I had, what I fought so hard to keep hold of. What a waste of time!"

So we're not just saying you have to stop caring. We're saying (to all of you BS's) to ACT like you don't care by removing her from your life in every way, so as to help you heal sooner.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> You're absolutely right.
> I remember when the thinking changed though. It was when I started to see her as a monster, not as a human. I believed she was something she wasn't. I had to re-wire 6 years of thinking. Once that started, everything else changed. And for me, it wasn't something I could force....it just kind of happened on its own. The anger stage.
> 
> The other night when I sent the text, I was making dinner for both of my daughters. That was something we use to all do together. I didnt realize the missing piece until after it was done.
> ...


How's yousa doin' Hex?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> How's yousa doin' Hex?


Well, "transformation" is a good word.

My biggest concern right now is court. I really believe I have a good shot for full or at the very least, joint custody. I have our daughter around 60% of the time so thats a good thing. I am still at the job that I had. If I lose any time by switching jobs, I could lose my chance at custody. And if i do switch now, I could lose time which would result in child support. If i can hold out a little, I have a chance. My job's hours are just too fantastic at the moment. 8-4 mon.-Fri. My goal is physical custody so that weighs on my mind more than anything. 

I've said before that as hard as the emotional aspect of this has been, my court objective has been laser focused. 
It may sound a tad absurd but I have taken the Sun Tzu approach to court from the very beginning. 
I may not be able to prove she is 100% unfit however I could show her to be a terrible role model. 

As far as my feelings on her; I don't like anything to do with her.
I don't like talking to her.
I don't like seeing her during exchanges.
I don't even appreciate the memories. I just don't know what is real and what isn't. 
And when she pops into my head, she disgusts me. 
I don't hate anyone or anything. IMO, its a wasted emotion.
However with that being said, my soon-to-be flirts with the line between hate and dislike.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for the update, Hex. Sounds to me like you have a really good chance at full custody, crossing fingers for ya. A former (??) heroin addict mother is not in the best interest of the child for sure. You will get past your disgust and hate over time and it will morph into indifference, which is where you want to be.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks for the update, Hex. Sounds to me like you have a really good chance at full custody, crossing fingers for ya. A former (??) heroin addict mother is not in the best interest of the child for sure. You will get past your disgust and hate over time and it will morph into indifference, which is where you want to be.


Looking back over the past 6 months is odd. 
I spent so much time in denial. Not so much because of an ego or anything but more due to confusion and the impact of HOW it went down. 
Fine one day, complete destruction the next. I was fooled for so long. 
The "you don't understand how much I love you. I am so happy being your wife".
And two weeks after that I heard, "I need you to go away".
It was hard to wrap my head around that. I didn't know what to believe.
I did a lot of research on the cluster B personalities and matched so much but.....
It was still hard for my logical mind. Completely illogical and irrational behaviors just intellectually cripple me for some reason.
I needed clarity.
Never really got it, at least not the "paint by numbers" pattern I wanted. 
And now looking back, I'm ok with not knowing. The only thing it does is give me a more mindful approach to the next....if there will ever be one.

I'm still sad for my daughter but as for me, an old friend said, "there are worst things than being freed from a toxic marriage".
Indeed there is. 
You said that the disgust will turn into indifference, I hope it doesn't before court as its one hell of a motivator. lol

I should take a moment to thank each and every person that posted here. Harsh or otherwise. 
You folks took time out of your day to help a stranger in need.
Even if it was just words, it was kindness and I needed that. I'm still not over it and I'm sure I'll always feel the sting to some extent but now, the light at the end of the tunnel gets bigger every day. You good folks helped me more than you could know. I know how incredibly frustrating I was but you kept posting.
Thank you so very much. All of you.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

You sound much "stronger" now Hex- so glad you're in a better place


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I'm curious as to how many other spouses re-wrote history. 
A lot of complaints that she gave me on occasion since the seperation (not closure) was the first time I even heard it. 
I'm really curious as to the pattern involved and what was common.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Very common..... gaslighting, blameshifting, re-writing of history.....

It's done to absolve themselves of guilt for.... walking out on their M and family.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> Well, "transformation" is a good word.
> 
> My biggest concern right now is court. I really believe I have a good shot for full or at the very least, joint custody. I have our daughter around 60% of the time so thats a good thing. I am still at the job that I had. If I lose any time by switching jobs, I could lose my chance at custody. And if i do switch now, I could lose time which would result in child support. If i can hold out a little, I have a chance. My job's hours are just too fantastic at the moment. 8-4 mon.-Fri. My goal is physical custody so that weighs on my mind more than anything.
> 
> ...


Hate is emotional, dislike is rational.
Someday,not soon, maybe in twenty years, it will be total indifference. Will not happen sooner, because of your shared child. 

I just hope and pray, that your STBXW's actions and personality do not turn your daughter into another 'her'. 
And that she has not passed on her bad traits that affect personality, via, DNA.

You need to counter the bad that this women does to her child.

And keep the daughter away from drugs in the future...yikes.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Very common..... gaslighting, blameshifting, re-writing of history.....
> 
> It's done to absolve themselves of guilt for.... walking out on their M and family.


Not that I'm in a place where I'm ready for it but going into the future, it would be nice to know that there are in fact normal women out there that don't do such things. 
Knowing right from wrong is one thing, putting it into practice is quite another. We all know that the world has it's share of bad people. Not just "ok" or otherwise "good" people that have done bad things but for me, its my first encounter with an actual "bad" human.
Then.....I married her. 
I am unbelievably disappointed with myself.

I'm still in therapy and maybe I'll ask about this but I don't want to be bitter.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Not that I'm in a place where I'm ready for it but going into the future, it would be nice to know that there are in fact normal women out there that don't do such things.
> Knowing right from wrong is one thing, putting it into practice is quite another. We all know that the world has it's share of bad people. Not just "ok" or otherwise "good" people that have done bad things but for me, its my first encounter with an actual "bad" human.
> Then.....I married her.
> I am unbelievably disappointed with myself.
> ...


Hex..... you may never know why she did what she did. Truth is.... I bet she doesn't either. So many people come from broken childhoods. This can be from a D, CSA, physical abuse, emotional abuse, or psychological abuse. Did anyone in her close family abuse any drugs? See... me n my pop didn't get along often. Well... I was an updated version of him in many ways. I didn't realize it then but I'm sure he did. The only ones he was really guilty of with me was emotional and psychological. Even though he was guilty of those... he was still firm... but fair (most of the time). When schit hit the fan dealing with me or mom... he always stepped up and took charge... in the sense of my botched surgery to mom's health ailments when she was younger.

Mom and I got along much more smoothly. I had the necessary tools to be an adult and function amongst them. Your XW... we can't say that. Somewhere in her early years... someone dropped the ball or did an act that traumatized her. Right there she was stunted from her emotional growth. No growth followed... anytime she feels pressured or stressed.... she reverts back to that time. She wants to find a place when she last..... felt "safe." 

This is why the blameshifting, gaslighting, and re-witting of history takes place. Unless your XW (I personally don't see it) seeks professional help as to why she is..... the way she is..... her cycle will continue. No loving them incessantly will snap them out of it. With her.... it is fight or flight. She bolts.... How much do you know about her prior dating history before you met?

She perpetually swings between abandonment and engulfment. @Uptown can really go into detail about this. Hex.... Just like when I told you about my XW, I mentioned my 1st love. Her home life was horrid... you name the abuse.... he did it to her....and her mom and her brothers. He would take a toothbrush to her vagina...when she was a child. WHY? The reason she and I busted up that last time in late 1990 was I refused to drop out of college and move in with her. I have certain limitations from the botched surgery.... and about the best I could hope for was a career at the "Jack in the Box" fast food joint. Ironically....pop saw it coming a mile away. I was 18.... completely clueless. 

She wanted her own place because she couldn't trust her roommates. Oh...her roommates were.... her mom and brothers. Both of the brothers would steal from her, one would steal her car, her mom would -lay up with the nastiest men you would ever meet (1st love's words)- Once her brother stole her car, drove it until it ran out of gas.... had someone push them back to the apartment....oh...the brakes were bad.... and the car jumped the concrete hump and was hanging halfway over their yard. She saw this, flipped a gasket and with about 25 onlookers, ripped off her work shirt (was wearing bra) and stormed in the apartment. THEN I too knew..... Couple months later....we were through. Six weeks later.... she was M. To a guy that looked like a cross between Jed Clampit and a pork rind. 

But she chases me to this "day," even while she was M to 1st H, and 2nd H. Years later... I understood why she ran. She has ran all of her life and will continue to. The only time she didn't have to... was when we were together. She has a good soul... I'd love to see her pull herself out. She's 45 now.... I doubt she ever will. Hex....be very glad you got out when you did.

Had she and I "been born'd" twenty years earlier and met in 1968... we'd both probably have dropped out of HS and gotten M. And somewhere in the mid-late 80s.... I would be typing on a forum....just like this one..... wondering....the very same things you were (minus the drug use).


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Hex..... you may never know why she did what she did. Truth is.... I bet she doesn't either. So many people come from broken childhoods. This can be from a D, CSA, physical abuse, emotional abuse, or psychological abuse. Did anyone in her close family abuse any drugs? See... me n my pop didn't get along often. Well... I was an updated version of him in many ways. I didn't realize it then but I'm sure he did. The only ones he was really guilty of with me was emotional and psychological. Even though he was guilty of those... he was still firm... but fair (most of the time). When schit hit the fan dealing with me or mom... he always stepped up and took charge... in the sense of my botched surgery to mom's health ailments when she was younger.
> 
> Mom and I got along much more smoothly. I had the necessary tools to be an adult and function amongst them. Your XW... we can't say that. Somewhere in her early years... someone dropped the ball or did an act that traumatized her. Right there she was stunted from her emotional growth. No growth followed... anytime she feels pressured or stressed.... she reverts back to that time. She wants to find a place when she last..... felt "safe."
> 
> ...


Very, VERY interesting.
She is her mother through and through.
Her mother did something very similar to her father. Her mom had two affiars when AOL first exploded and the internet became a viable thing for the public. During the second affair, her father lost his cool. And according the ex, choked her mother and left. I'm not sure what to believe now because she accused me of abuse.
Her mother is a narcissist as well.
But, no drug use in her childhood home...ALTHOUGH....most of her cousins do hard drugs and they are all close in age. One of her cousins recently died from an overdose. He was 3 years older than her i think. 

At first glance, you wouldn't suspect the kind of "white trash" kind of vibe I've painted of her. She is very pretty and carries herself with a sort of....arrogance. At the time I started seeing her, didn't think of what that would mean going into the future. 
When you walk into one of these homes (her mother's or father's) you see nice furniture and decent cars. Uncultured yet clean. 
I had thought for the longest time she was abnormally intelligent but looking back, I confused wit with intelligence. She has a witty sense of humor and it attracted me.

My childhood explains a LOT. 
My parents divorced when I was 9. My father was a retired cop who went on to get his Phd in history. My mother who was a folklore major that wen't on to become a nurse. Both of my parents were exceptionally intelligent yet, absent. 
I spent most of my childhood envious of other families. I grew up alone for the most part. I have siblings but I'm a child of "older age" so they were already out of the house. 
Like in the No more mr. nice guy, I had abandonment issues. I don't match up with everything in that but that is one that I do. 

I think you may be right. She may not know. There is a part of me that really wants her to ask me back but, I only want that just so I can say no. 
A type of revenge.
But I don't need it. 
She will destroy herself without any help from me. I just hope my daughter isn't there when whatever break occures when it does. 
A demented part of me sees the entertainment value of when it actually happens. 
I'm anxious to destroy her in court but I'm putting it off as long as possible. 
There are 2 reasons for this. 
1. I want to establish a long timeline of how often I have my daughter more. THe longer this goes on, the less likely the judge is to pull the rug out from under us.
2. Health ins. I take arixtra daily and cannot, under any circumstances, stop. I need to build a large supply of it.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

I'm new to this thread, and I'm going to sound like a *****, but I am honestly only here to help, and you will understand this shortly.

Your STBXW might have a few aces up her sleeve. I am going to reveal them. Please review these with your attorney, Hexagon.

What was your job at the prison where you met your wife? You didn't say you were a Corrections Officer, but if you were, you could be in a big world of hurt, unless some sort of statute of limitations has occurred. In WI, there are laws against prison staff, especially COs dating prisoners. It's verboten, and punished with termination or legal actions. The laws might be different in Indiana, but you have to prepare yourself for the worst. 

Hopefully, there are no 911 or police calls to commemorate that evening your STBXW asked you to leave the house. Or any other events during your marriage. If so, you need to have your attorney focus on the fact that your wife has been completely comfy with you caring for your young daughter, or you may lose custody of her.

You mentioned the "random" drug test at the first court meeting, which I would have insisted upon, but it sounds like it didn't happen. I'm skimming, so perhaps it did? If it didn't, insist.

The age difference, and your employment at the prison where you met may or may not have an impact on the judge's decision. It's seen as a power imbalance. Even if things have shifted in your relationship.

I imagine a 50/50 custody decision, although I'm certainly no expert in that area. But as long as both of you are not abusing substances (please mention again the wee hours drunk posting on facebook), I can't see this coming out differently. Take screenshots.

Concerning dating...if you must, please contain it to nights that your ex has your daughter,, and don't introduce any new gfs to your kid, at least until you are relatively certain you are dealing with a sane person. She's had enough upheaval in her life and doesn't need to be subjected to girlfriends/boyfriends dujour who only take your time and attention away from her. You can't control what your ex does, but you can control what you do. Personally, I think it's good to take at least a year off after a split to process everything.

Best wishes...


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

introvert said:


> I'm new to this thread, and I'm going to sound like a *****, but I am honestly only here to help, and you will understand this shortly.
> 
> Your STBXW might have a few aces up her sleeve. I am going to reveal them. Please review these with your attorney, Hexagon.
> 
> ...


You have a few things to cover so I'll number them.

1. I worked at a jail not a prison and there are no laws. In fact, years ago I covered these grounds before anything developed as to avoid legal repercussions like you mentioned.

2. Yes. The police/911 was called that night. I called them. I did that to cover my ass. She was getting physical and I wanted to protect myself legally. In fact, she has a history of physical violence but its been years. 

3. Random drug screen. Both attorneys asked if we would pass one on stand and of course we both said yes. I want her to take one but I have just ONE shot at that. One bullet if you will. I need to be absolutely sure she will flunk it before I spring that trap. I have a feeling she was using again and if I can prolong court, the odds of her relapsing becomes greater. She needs to let her guard down a little before I use that. 

4. I did take screenshots and did in fact use that drunk episode of hers. Already done.

5. Yes I am aware of this. I need a lot of time and she will not be exposed to any woman unless its a for sure thing.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Looking back over the past 6 months is odd.
> I spent so much time in denial. Not so much because of an ego or anything but more due to confusion and the impact of HOW it went down.
> Fine one day, complete destruction the next. I was fooled for so long.
> The "you don't understand how much I love you. I am so happy being your wife".
> ...


Why doesn't matter. In the end, it's all speculation.

People do what they want to do 

People don't do what they don't wish to do.

Roughly 90% of decision-making is emotional. Look at the ridiculous stock market.

And, the emotions of broken people misinform them.

Not a glamorous answer, but I can guarantee it's a true one.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

ReturntoZero said:


> Roughly 90% of decision-making is emotional.


That's worth repeating.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Hexagon said:


> You have a few things to cover so I'll number them.
> 
> 1. I worked at a jail not a prison and there are no laws. In fact, years ago I covered these grounds before anything developed as to avoid legal repercussions like you mentioned.
> 
> ...


You have all your bases covered, hexagon. 

She's clearly the unstable factor, here. 

Honestly, her thinking it's cool for her to have an attorney, but you're just being difficult if you get one? Priceless! I'm glad you have an attorney in your corner.

I'm sending good thoughts your way.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I'm curious about something that has happened in the last couple weeks and I can't really find anything solid on the subject. I have found some answers but they are all over the place as far as reasons.
It seems that I've lost interest in the opposite sex. Usually this only lasts a couple days at most but go back to wanting female company.
The last couple weeks...I got nothin. 

Not even a booty call sounds.....looking for a fitting word or phrase here.........
ok not even a booty call sounds mentally or physically cost-effective. 

Is this normal? A phase I'm going through?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds like depression to me. Depression = numbness.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> I'm curious about something that has happened in the last couple weeks and I can't really find anything solid on the subject. I have found some answers but they are all over the place as far as reasons.
> It seems that I've lost interest in the opposite sex. Usually this only lasts a couple days at most but go back to wanting female company.
> The last couple weeks...I got nothin.
> 
> ...


Of course it's normal.

You're simply learning about yourself.

Just wait it out, it will pass.

I guarantee it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex...... what you may be feeling is the "absence of perceived normalcy"

The holidays are really bad about that. You miss your family.... or what WAS your family.

Which returns you to..... why you are D your XW. It's better to be alone... than with someone who

brings you down. Maybe you miss having that special someone with you, for the holidays.

Is there a soup kitchen or a Giving Tree in your area? Maybe buy something for a needy family....

Or volunteer around Christmas to make meals for the less fortunate.

There's not a thing wrong with missing what you life was with your XW. Yes there were some great times.

But you can not dismiss the horrid things she said and did. It will get easier....

As RTZ said.... I guarantee it.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> It seems that I've lost interest in the opposite sex. Usually this only lasts a couple days at most but go back to wanting female company.
> The last couple weeks...I got nothin.


How social are you being in general? Not necessarily for dating, but just hanging around with other people? Are you doing stuff with friends? Or are you just going to work and home and mostly being alone? If you're isolating yourself, it's not surprising that your desire for companionship would diminish. Make sure you're having fun out in society--with friends, volunteering, working out, etc--and you'll likely find your desire will come back.


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## Slybud (Dec 24, 2017)

2 weeks ago I found out my had an affair, I knew something was up and ignored the signs, I finally did and she said everything was ok, she said the in love but not in love to me, said hasn't been happy, our issues have always been communication. She has been through alot, molested as a kid, bad back, pain meds for back weened off, now she at her best 15 ye ar s later and now she wants to find herself. We had 2 marriage counseling sessions , second one she it won't work since she has no passion or need f or me or ever did. We have 3 kids, dream home. She refuses to stop communication with him. I threatened to notify his wife, and when I do that she gets mad and says that's not me and why destroy their life. I say cause mine is.she is cold now. When I look at her I don't recognize her. So cold. With her past life experiences and parents she has learned to keep everything inside and show no emotion. I have maybe seen her cry3-5 times in the 15 years we have been married. 
My life is in termoil, we are faking it for the holidays. But once xmas is over I know it's gonna get worse. I saw a lawyer and since I make double her I basically loss half. How can I afford a place to live to spend time with my kids. I have lost the 20 lbs. I went over the monthly financial with her to show her why I have been semi depressed and checked out according to her. She said I should of told her but I said why have 2 worry and I wanted the best for and the kids. She said she isn't a princess. I said your were my queen. 
I have done everything wrong, beg, cry, plead, get angry, I gave her th e bed when I should of sent her to the cold basement but I am there . I have tried to distance my self. Cause she says we aren't a couple and it's uncomfortable, unfortunately when we are all together as a family is the only time I feel ok. Yesterday was an ok day but then I at night I get mad cause she didn't help wrap and she said I didn't ask and didn't know what I was doing upstairs. Well u could of asked I said but also said but I know now I disgust you. She said isn't the case. 
She got her own phone so she keep in touch with him, cause if course Iaccidentally pinged her phone when I didn't believe she was home. I took that app off, that made her super mad. I am lost, emotional wreck for our families and kids when th ey all find out. Every one thought we had the perfect marriage. I need advice and non bias support. Later next week ki d are away with their aunt and little guy in day care and she is planning on going to her parents beach house for 2 day's, since just little guy is here and we aren't a couple so we shouldn't hang out. But her leaving homie feel is wrong. But If I say that it won't come out correctly. How can I get her back. Advice, hope!?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Slybud said:


> 2 weeks ago I found out my had an affair, I knew something was up and ignored the signs, I finally did and she said everything was ok, she said the in love but not in love to me, said hasn't been happy, our issues have always been communication. She has been through alot, molested as a kid, bad back, pain meds for back weened off, now she at her best 15 ye ar s later and now she wants to find herself. We had 2 marriage counseling sessions , second one she it won't work since she has no passion or need f or me or ever did. We have 3 kids, dream home. She refuses to stop communication with him. I threatened to notify his wife, and when I do that she gets mad and says that's not me and why destroy their life. I say cause mine is.she is cold now. When I look at her I don't recognize her. So cold. With her past life experiences and parents she has learned to keep everything inside and show no emotion. I have maybe seen her cry3-5 times in the 15 years we have been married.
> My life is in termoil, we are faking it for the holidays. But once xmas is over I know it's gonna get worse. I saw a lawyer and since I make double her I basically loss half. How can I afford a place to live to spend time with my kids. I have lost the 20 lbs. I went over the monthly financial with her to show her why I have been semi depressed and checked out according to her. She said I should of told her but I said why have 2 worry and I wanted the best for and the kids. She said she isn't a princess. I said your were my queen.
> I have done everything wrong, beg, cry, plead, get angry, I gave her th e bed when I should of sent her to the cold basement but I am there . I have tried to distance my self. Cause she says we aren't a couple and it's uncomfortable, unfortunately when we are all together as a family is the only time I feel ok. Yesterday was an ok day but then I at night I get mad cause she didn't help wrap and she said I didn't ask and didn't know what I was doing upstairs. Well u could of asked I said but also said but I know now I disgust you. She said isn't the case.
> She got her own phone so she keep in touch with him, cause if course Iaccidentally pinged her phone when I didn't believe she was home. I took that app off, that made her super mad. I am lost, emotional wreck for our families and kids when th ey all find out. Every one thought we had the perfect marriage. I need advice and non bias support. Later next week ki d are away with their aunt and little guy in day care and she is planning on going to her parents beach house for 2 day's, since just little guy is here and we aren't a couple so we shouldn't hang out. But her leaving homie feel is wrong. But If I say that it won't come out correctly. How can I get her back. Advice, hope!?


Start your own thread.

You keep crying, begging and pleading you'll just put yourself in worse shape. Have you done full exposure? That maybe the only weapon you have.

If you let your fear rule you you're done. Hard 180 immediately and cut her off financially. Protect yourself.

Talking with no action gets you more of what you're getting.

You'd better wake the hell up and quit taking this ****.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

A new year is upon us and for me, I'm a little more positive than I have been as of late. 
We have a final hearing date in mid Feb. 
She goes out of her way to chit chat and/or be nice and she makes comments about how hateful and/or rude I can be. I will admit to being short and on occasion, the comments do slip. I have no desire to be "friends". I want to appear respectful in my daughter's company but other than that, I have nothing to contribute in the way of "kindness".
I think she needs me to forgive her. Its almost as if she is looking for permission to move on. When she picks up or drops off our daughter, she cries from time to time. 
I would imagine that this is guilt. 

My financial situation is as awful as it was. I'm playing the waiting game until court. I don't want to change up my hours as I have our daughter 65% of the time (...ish). If I lose time, I could lose my shot at custody so I'm hanging on by a thread. 
I have also never made a new years resolution but I did this year. I want to finish my book by May 4th which is exactly 1 year since this all started. 
Just wanted to let everyone know that I haven't landed on my feet just yet....but I am vertical.

::Edit:: I wanted to add a little more on her behavior as it may be a clue to something that could help me. 
I think something has happened in her life. I suspect an abortion. Lots of tears and her willingness to be nice. Shes lost a lot of weight and doesn't seem to be messing with another right now. I could be wrong but I don't care.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Limit your contact to your child only. Nothing else.

They all want to be your friend after they blow your world up.

She's not friend material


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Marc878 said:


> Limit your contact to your child only. Nothing else.
> 
> They all want to be your friend after they blow your world up.
> 
> She's not friend material


Would you choose her as a friend?

Would you even want to know her?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Slybud said:


> 2 weeks ago I found out my had an affair, I knew something was up and ignored the signs, I finally did and she said everything was ok, she said the in love but not in love to me, said hasn't been happy, our issues have always been communication. She has been through alot, molested as a kid, bad back, pain meds for back weened off, now she at her best 15 ye ar s later and now she wants to find herself. We had 2 marriage counseling sessions , second one she it won't work since she has no passion or need f or me or ever did. We have 3 kids, dream home. She refuses to stop communication with him. I threatened to notify his wife, and when I do that she gets mad and says that's not me and why destroy their life. I say cause mine is.she is cold now. When I look at her I don't recognize her. So cold. With her past life experiences and parents she has learned to keep everything inside and show no emotion. I have maybe seen her cry3-5 times in the 15 years we have been married.
> My life is in termoil, we are faking it for the holidays. But once xmas is over I know it's gonna get worse. I saw a lawyer and since I make double her I basically loss half. How can I afford a place to live to spend time with my kids. I have lost the 20 lbs. I went over the monthly financial with her to show her why I have been semi depressed and checked out according to her. She said I should of told her but I said why have 2 worry and I wanted the best for and the kids. She said she isn't a princess. I said your were my queen.
> I have done everything wrong, beg, cry, plead, get angry, I gave her th e bed when I should of sent her to the cold basement but I am there . I have tried to distance my self. Cause she says we aren't a couple and it's uncomfortable, unfortunately when we are all together as a family is the only time I feel ok. Yesterday was an ok day but then I at night I get mad cause she didn't help wrap and she said I didn't ask and didn't know what I was doing upstairs. Well u could of asked I said but also said but I know now I disgust you. She said isn't the case.
> She got her own phone so she keep in touch with him, cause if course Iaccidentally pinged her phone when I didn't believe she was home. I took that app off, that made her super mad. I am lost, emotional wreck for our families and kids when th ey all find out. Every one thought we had the perfect marriage. I need advice and non bias support. Later next week ki d are away with their aunt and little guy in day care and she is planning on going to her parents beach house for 2 day's, since just little guy is here and we aren't a couple so we shouldn't hang out. But her leaving homie feel is wrong. But If I say that it won't come out correctly. How can I get her back. Advice, hope!?


As above, so below


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> A new year is upon us and for me, I'm a little more positive than I have been as of late.
> We have a final hearing date in mid Feb.
> She goes out of her way to chit chat and/or be nice and she makes comments about how hateful and/or rude I can be. I will admit to being short and on occasion, the comments do slip. I have no desire to be "friends". I want to appear respectful in my daughter's company but other than that, I have nothing to contribute in the way of "kindness".
> I think she needs me to forgive her. Its almost as if she is looking for permission to move on. When she picks up or drops off our daughter, she cries from time to time.
> ...


Your daughter is your only concern. She wanted out, you gave her what she wanted.

You are still allowing her to anger dump on you..... STOP IT! That is the main reason she is

verbalizing with you..... you accept her tirades. Listening to her makes her think you are

leaving the door open for her. Shut the damn door, burn the key in acid. There is no tomorrow.

Her problems are.... hers to deal with. Of course she wants you back.... she has learned life is hard

without a doormat to wipe her feet on. You gave up that job. She brow beat you then, she still does

to this day. Nothing has changed. Do not dwell on could've beens.

Get the best settlement you can get. Maybe you're just being nice to pacify her ass until court.

Feel free to expound upon her behavior. It is behavior you do not want your daughter to deal with.

And.....author to author, don't ever put a timetable on finishing a book. My three book trilogy took

longer than expected but it poured through me like a sinner at a baptism. Doing a current work on

a family who won the lottery. Is it me? Dunno..... But any book is to some part, the author..... isn't it?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Its almost over for me. I recieved her proposal and after speaking with my lawyer, made some changes. I will still get to have our daughter the majority of the time and things stay as they are. 
No child support from either party.
I could utterly destroy her in court but I gotta be honest here.....I just want it over.

Something else I want to add. The self discovery I have been going through is amazing and eye opening.
I'm 43.
I have found out that my entire life (post puberty anyway) I have sought the approval and validation of pretty women. At some point, I had determined that I'm not a good man unless I have a woman considered pretty by social standards. 
Everything was bent on this and literally everything came behind it. I put this first in my life for years. Hobbies, careers, money, etc. was placed behind this in my mind's priority.
Talk about an epiphany.
Still, all i can think is "wow".
Upon this discovery, my interest in women is......not lost but minimal.
I'm 43 and have never, EVER cared about cars other than if mine works. It was a tool and I treated it as such.
Now i'm turning into a car guy. lol
This is all weird to me but it feels as if a monkey has been taken off of my back.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Its almost over for me. I recieved her proposal and after speaking with my lawyer, made some changes. I will still get to have our daughter the majority of the time and things stay as they are.
> No child support from either party.
> I could utterly destroy her in court but I gotta be honest here.....I just want it over.
> 
> ...


That's IT

When people refer to these things as a "mid-life crisis", they minimize it. It's actually a whole life crisis that comes into focus as we wrestle with who we actually wish to be.

For me, the light bulb popped on at 48

All I could think was "sheesh".... 30 years lost!

WRONG

Think of how many GREAT years ahead!

You call the shots in your own life now.

Live it with ZEST!

And, congratulations!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> That's IT
> 
> When people refer to these things as a "mid-life crisis", they minimize it. It's actually a whole life crisis that comes into focus as we wrestle with who we actually wish to be.
> 
> ...


THIS^^^

Live your life.... for you.... NOBODY else. 

When you have your schit together.... you don't have to "seek out" someone...

THEY come to YOU. 

Take an auto body / mech class at the local JUCO. Buy an old car and tinker with it. Ain't gotta be

a showpiece. Build a deck in the back yard.... watch a few how-to / DIY things on-line first.

Oh... and when you try the OLD..... place your profile / pics on the free ones (yeah... you will get

some truly weird responses)... and.... go out and enjoy life. Answer only the ones you have

an interest in. If you see a profile that intrigues you.... send a message.

Just don't do like a lot of guys and sign up, send out 20 canned messages and consider it a lost

cause when no one responds within 24 hours. 

And Hex.... (we're about same age)... the older you get the more % of partners are damaged.....

damaged AND broken. Damaged can still be fixed, broken.... well.... it is what it is.

Most broken will actually admit it..... and fact they don't care to change. Those you avoid.....

Be wary of the bandaged ones.... they wrap them bandages real tight and promote heaven

on earth. The bandages start falling off around 9-12 months.... one by two by seven.

But they hope you're invested too much to walk away even though red flags are 'aflyin

Some put their head in the sand..... and # of years later.... end up on a board like this...

wondering WTF happened to their 2nd/3rd/4th M. 

Don't be that person Hex


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

It doesn't matter if women are beautiful if what lies beneath is rotten.

I secretly hope more men realize this before they've lived over half their life, but it happens when it happens.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Satya said:


> It doesn't matter if women are beautiful if what lies beneath is rotten.
> 
> I secretly hope more men realize this before they've lived over half their life, but it happens when it happens.


No one can call it for another.

Just look at the first ten threads in this forum.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

The last court day was suppose to be yesterday but it was continued due to her and I almost reaching an agreement. Her lawyer will type it up and I'll just have to sign. 
I figured this would be bittersweet as I'm anxious to get it over with. Yet, I feel kind of sad. 
What a ride this has been.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> The last court day was suppose to be yesterday but it was continued due to her and I almost reaching an agreement. Her lawyer will type it up and I'll just have to sign.
> I figured this would be bittersweet as I'm anxious to get it over with. Yet, I feel kind of sad.
> What a ride this has been.


Completely understandable...... the night before my D was to be final, it was quite bittersweet.

The rental property I was staying at was where we were M at. I had to look at the spot where we were M,

the bedroom we shared. It wasn't pleasant but... what was to be done, had to be done.

After the D was final and my then XW made a reach for me in the courthouse parking lot (no lie LOL)

I went to the property and downed a fifth of JD. Woke up.... took g/f out to my fav

Italian bistro. Life goes on.....


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> After the D was final and my then XW made a reach for me in the courthouse parking lot (no lie LOL)


Like, for a hug?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Like, for a hug?


Quoted exactly from my divorce day post.....

-She did make me aware I needed a haircut. She offered to cut it and I asked how much. You know I wouldn't charge you. Awwwww........I'll pass
-Have you been able to go by the Dr? I said no. Here let me give you some pills until you can. Awwwwwww
-She was even able to squeeze in a we should get together sometime! Awwwwww
-Ya know, I enjoyed being out there alone! Yeah...pull my leg it plays jingle bells!


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Quoted exactly from my divorce day post.....
> 
> -She did make me aware I needed a haircut. She offered to cut it and I asked how much. You know I wouldn't charge you. Awwwww........I'll pass
> -Have you been able to go by the Dr? I said no. Here let me give you some pills until you can. Awwwwwww
> ...


Mine would never do anything like this. She is pretty aware of how I feel about her and being in her presence.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Mine would never do anything like this. She is pretty aware of how I feel about her and being in her presence.


So did mine...... but she overplayed her hand and knew it.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Mine would never do anything like this. She is pretty aware of how I feel about her and being in her presence.


How you feel about her doesn't seem to faze them. They have a narrative going inside and that's what gets followed irrelevant of what's really going on.

It's bittersweet signing but once you do you will also feel a huge sense of relief that it's finally done.


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## lala911 (Feb 23, 2018)

keep your values, people with lack of values are never happy. I am going through a similar scenario with a cheater and it makes you feel like everything they say is a lie and you are just left going crazy thinking and running everything they do and say in your mind. Don't go crazy you know the truth and ask god to lead you towards the right path. You will see that little by little god will send you messages to show you the way. Have faith, pray to god, pray to god with your daughter and go to church. God will speak to you!


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Is your divorce final yet Hex?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Not said:


> Is your divorce final yet Hex?


No. Since we were close to an agreement, it was postponed. Waiting on taxes (which are done) and a way to transfer the 401k. Its basically logistics at this point. 
In the meantime, I find myself missing my daughter a great deal when shes with her mother. 

Odd that something was said here as yesterday I had somewhat of a conversation with the ex. The first in some time. 
She called yesterday. Apparently, our daughter was talking about a "Ryan" a lot and made up a story of meeting him. 
The conversation went something like this...
"I was just wondering, who is Ryan? She kept saying something about meeting him."
-"Its the kid from the youtube videos. The one she watches of other kids playing with toys".
"Oh. Ok yeah. I know what you're talking about. I thought......."
-"That I had met a woman and she and I stayed the night? That this Ryan was her kid?"
"Yeah. Something like that. I knew you were good and I didn't really think that you would introduce her so quickly to a woman. Let alone spend the night".
-"No. I wouldn't. I'm a good dad. Its way too early for something like that. For her and I".
"Yeah. I know you are. And I'm a good mom".
...
<silence>
...
"Oh is that how it is. Well then. Never mind. I take back what I said".
-(i start to giggle)"So now I'm not a good dad?"
"No you are. I just thought you'd mention that I wasn't a piece of **** and that I was actually a decent mother since I complimented you".
...
<silence>
...
"Ok well....been great talking to yo..<CLICK>

And that was the first time I smiled after hanging up the phone with that woman in quite some time. 
It pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole thing.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She is still fishing.... and still reaching. This will continue for a good while.

Keep boundaries firm and..... traverse on with your life with your child.


----------



## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

At least both of you are on the same page with her being a POS.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Malaise said:


> At least both of you are on the same page with her being a POS.


I told you she hated herself.


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

This has been a long process for you Hex. I thought for sure it would be done by now. Mine was was just 60 days in the Northwestern corner of our state. By the sounds of it it shouldn’t be to much longer though. I hope you and your daughter are doing well.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Not said:


> This has been a long process for you Hex. I thought for sure it would be done by now. Mine was was just 60 days in the Northwestern corner of our state. By the sounds of it it shouldn’t be to much longer though. I hope you and your daughter are doing well.


Mine was 60 days but that is a rare luxury today. TN is 90 days with kids if uncontested.

I never knew of a one year wait for final until I came here. I was floored. Many states are one year....

even with ZERO children. WHY? WHY? WHY?

My XW and I had no children.... so 60 days. I was told then, GA had a 30 day with no kids.

I was so tempted.... living a short drive from GA, to buy a trailer lot in Goobersville, GA just to

get it done a month earlier. 

I understand how the courts want the couple to try and work things out... but a year?

Sorry but six months is enough.... and if no kids or are grown.... 30 days.

But it's funny you have to pay to marry and pay to divorce.... the courts don't know you

unless a crime is committed. But they will decide and shape your next 8-10-12-15 years

financially, psychologically, and emotionally. 

:rant:


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Hex and I live in the same state which has a 60 day period so I’m just really surprised that it’s taken so long. I have one daughter who’s still under age but that didn’t seem to play any role at all. We used a mediator and didn’t fight over much of anything so it went fairly smoothly but I haven’t seen Hex mention any major problems that would cause things to have to play out for so long.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Not said:


> Hex and I live in the same state which has a 60 day period so I’m just really surprised that it’s taken so long. I have one daughter who’s still under age but that didn’t seem to play any role at all. We used a mediator and didn’t fight over much of anything so it went fairly smoothly but I haven’t seen Hex mention any major problems that would cause things to have to play out for so long.


Except that he's had to do it all and she's psychotic.
@honcho can tell you how that goes.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

ReturntoZero said:


> Except that he's had to do it all and she's psychotic.
> 
> @honcho can tell you how that goes.


My state 90% are done within 6 months. Mine was almost 3 years with no kids and no big assets. I got my own parking spot at the courthouse we had so many hearing's over nonsense >

Hex, are you still waiting for the paperwork from her lawyer?


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

honcho said:


> My state 90% are done within 6 months. Mine was almost 3 years with no kids and no big assets. I got my own parking spot at the courthouse we had so many hearing's over nonsense >
> 
> Hex, are you still waiting for the paperwork from her lawyer?




Honchos' ex is right up there with @Ceegee as the craziest of all time.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> Honchos' ex is right up there with @Ceegee as the craziest of all time.




Lol. And getting crazier as the years go by. 

Crazy doesn’t end. 

If you are truly going through D with a disordered person. I feel for you. 

I feel for you because it never ends. 

You have to understand this. 

Understand that this is your life now. 

Find ways to limit contact. 

Experts say otherwise. They say you still need to work together for the kids. 

Disorderds aren’t working for the kids. 

They are always looking for ways to get to you. 

Don’t let them. 

Now, I have oldest with me full time. Hasn’t seen his mom in weeks. 

Second oldest on verge of same. Matter of time. 

Haven’t read thread RTZ. If I can help let me know. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex..... your XW will set you up in certain situations like.... the returning a compliment after she gave one.

Before she even did that..... she already had a plan in place to paint you black if you did return one,

or not. She is miserable and her basic instinct is to... dump some of it. Why not you? She was able

to for years. This is why silence speaks so loudly. Silence makes her OWN her own POS tendencies. 

As CG stated... it is futile to try and deal with her. He had three kids with his psycho.

As long as the kids were under 18... his XW always had a reason to try and "get in touch" with him.

I'm sure the first paragraph was about the kids but the seven after, pure anger dumps. Sound familiar Hex?

The good thing is when the kids get older, you do not have to deal with them as much..... Yes she will

always be a part of your child's life but.... having to deal with her a couple times a year, is very manageable. 

But until they hit puberty.... she will use the kid..... to get at you. To dump on you.... to try and get back

together with you.... whatever suits her agenda for that day. But.... if you're prepared for it.....

she can not execute her agenda.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Hex..... your XW will set you up in certain situations like.... the returning a compliment after she gave one.
> 
> Before she even did that..... she already had a plan in place to paint you black if you did return one,
> 
> ...


Hex....

Let me amplify this.

You know how some psychos cut themselves? These anger dumps serve the same purpose.

It's an emotional release for her. If you take it, she accomplishes her subconscious mission.

She needs to own her own crap... and not dish it on you.

Silence... is golden.

If she persists, "I don't like where this conversation is heading"

And, then if she continues... HANG UP.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> This is my side quest. Ive started walking every day and will soon be running again. I am just so confused.
> 
> How can i get love notes and be the perfect husband one day and less than a two weeks later be such a piece of crap. How did i become an enemy? Ive noticed a common theme and thats when guys put the woman on a pedestal, the guy gets walked on. I'm not a weak man.....at least i didn't think so. I was just agreeable. We seldom argued and got along like we were long life friends. Now, i'm a monster. The constant lies she tells me as if i werent there and what shes telling others. I just don't understand.




I have not read the rest of the thread yet but I want to speak to this. 

This is what will drive you crazy if you let it. 

It’s the reconciliation of how she treats you with who you are. 

They are not related. 

She treats you this way to make herself feel better for what she’s done to you. 

You deserve it don’t you know?

Don’t believe it. 

It’s why you have to cut contact. 

Be done with her. 

It won’t end. 

She will never be able to forgive herself if she faced it head on. It’s much easier to hate you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex...... CG can really give you some deep analysis. One thing you have to remember is.... no matter how

her life turns out.... she will not win. Her path leads to loss. But here is the key....

She wants you to go down with her...... misery loves company. But you have a choice here....

to go down with her, or not. I don't think you will.... you have a child to raise, BUT.... just to be safe

I will reiterate.... she is not worth it....you can't save her, truth is, I don't think she can save herself.

My 1st love.... has a great soul but... she can't save herself. How would your child be if she went down 

and took you with her? It's an unwinnable battle..... don't fight those.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> I have not read the rest of the thread yet but I want to speak to this.
> 
> This is what will drive you crazy if you let it.
> 
> ...


This is the voice of experience.

It's the "logical" outcome of "illogical" black and white thinking.

You're either "all good" or "all bad". There's no in-between.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex........... you should read ReGroup's thread.... it's long but very insightful. Check out Unbe too.

Sage advice there

You'll get to meet Queen Lizard and her "understudy"


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Court is taking a while because of our attorneys are dragging their feet. Thats really all it is. My attorney was a very good friend of my fathers and hasn't charged me (so far) more than $500. So, I'm not gonna hassle the guy. That and I'm still under her medical through her work. I have something called antiphospholipid antibody syndrome. Its a clotting disorder and my daily shots are expensive so...the wait is just fine for me. 

As far as my contact with her...
I don't speak with her unless its about our daughter. 2-3 times a week and they are brief and only about parent stuff. (her bait last week was the first in a very long time).
How do I feel about her?
I cant say that I hate her however, I don't like her as a human. 
I find her disgusting and due to this, I'm a tad disgusted with myself for having been with her. 
The pure destruction she caused is unforgivable in my opinion. 
I honestly cannot see her wanting to get back with me. She knows how I feel about her and thats probably because of how I avoid contact or discussions. Hell, I can't even look at the woman in the eyes. 

A couple of weeks ago I wen't out with a long time friend and a female friend from work. SHe brough her friend and through casual conversation, I find out she works very close to my ex.
Apprently, its "common knowledge" that shes banging the guy I suspected. 
That kind of bummed me out for a couple of days but that was about it. 
I can't even look back on the memories I had with her with any kind of fondness because I don't know what was real and what wasn't. 
She was probably lying during all of it. Everything I had felt or thought that I had felt is tainted. 
So now when we do drop offs and pick ups, 3 minutes is my limit. 
I'm not even really angry......I just don't like her.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> Hex........... you should read ReGroup's thread.... it's long but very insightful. Check out Unbe too.
> 
> Sage advice there
> 
> You'll get to meet Queen Lizard and her "understudy"


OMG, Regroup...one for the history books.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You have a child so it was not a total loss. Just refine your picker.

But be prepared to walk away if they're a "bandaged person." Two years of heaven is not worth

8-10 years of hell. Will you have the child for Easter?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Court is taking a while because of our attorneys are dragging their feet. Thats really all it is. My attorney was a very good friend of my fathers and hasn't charged me (so far) more than $500. So, I'm not gonna hassle the guy. That and I'm still under her medical through her work. I have something called antiphospholipid antibody syndrome. Its a clotting disorder and my daily shots are expensive so...the wait is just fine for me.
> 
> As far as my contact with her...
> I don't speak with her unless its about our daughter. 2-3 times a week and they are brief and only about parent stuff. (her bait last week was the first in a very long time).
> ...


Normal place for you to be right now. Actually, you're ahead of most at this point.

Forgiveness is a goal I recommend. Otherwise, you carry her around with you everywhere you go. Forgiving her is not the same as forgiving what she did. Many on TAM disagree with me but it really helps moving on. Before I forgave her I was always in the victim chair. Deservedly so. But, the anger of betrayal was a weight I no longer wanted to carry.

Memories are just that. Memories. I have many good memories. What she did doesn't change the feelings I had at the time they were made. Separate the memories from the current situation. 

You have been dealing with two different people. The one you married and the one you're divorcing. Cognitive dissonance? Maybe. But it will help you move on to think of it this way.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Hex........... you should read ReGroup's thread.... it's long but very insightful. Check out Unbe too.
> 
> Sage advice there
> 
> You'll get to meet Queen Lizard and her "understudy"


Recommending ReGroup is never bad advice. 

It's where I cut my teeth. I was a newbie on that thread. 

Pay attention to RG's transitions. Hurt, angered them calm and cool.

It's the blueprint.


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> You have a child so it was not a total loss. Just refine your picker.
> 
> But be prepared to walk away if they're a "bandaged person." Two years of heaven is not worth
> 
> 8-10 years of hell. Will you have the child for Easter?


For part of the day. 

As far as my picker; I'm not entirely sure I want to even try with a woman. They are nice, easy on the eyes, etc. however, I don't want to experience anything like I did in the last year ever again.
I'm really just disinterested in the idea. 
I haven't shared everything I've gone through in the last 10 months but there were 3 moments that I felt something significant and/or break.
The 1st is when my ex (with whom I still loved at the time) called me while going down on the guy I suspected. SHe told me she needed me to go away. Looking back I consider this to be one of the single most cruel and vile things anyone could do. At the time, it broke my heart.
The second took place over a period of about a month. A couple with a 2 month old baby lived in the apartment above me. This baby cried A LOT. Something was wrong with this kid. It cried like it was in pain and it disturbed me. I logically assumed it had major health issues.
One day when dropping off my rent, I asked if they had moved since I hadn't heard them or the baby in some time. The landlady explained that the mother had moved and the guy she was with was in jail. He had over a period of a couple months, beat the infant to death. 
This tossed me into a terrible depressive state and it brought all of the anger I had felt towards my ex to the surface. It was terrible.
The 3rd was when I realized I had spent most of my life seeking the approval of women.
Now, I could care less. In fact, I would much rather have:
A Mustang GT or Shelby GT350
WRX STI
Golf R
Civic Type R 
Focus RS 
...than any woman. Of course I can't afford any of these but I like the idea more than a woman. Sure not all women are bad but I'm ok with not finding out.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> For part of the day.
> 
> As far as my picker; I'm not entirely sure I want to even try with a woman. They are nice, easy on the eyes, etc. however, I don't want to experience anything like I did in the last year ever again.
> I'm really just disinterested in the idea.
> ...


That's understandable.

Biology will catch up sooner or later.

Better to be prepared.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Recommending ReGroup is never bad advice.
> 
> It's where I cut my teeth. I was a newbie on that thread.
> 
> ...


Good to see you back Ceegee You ass

55


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Normal place for you to be right now. Actually, you're ahead of most at this point.
> 
> Forgiveness is a goal I recommend. Otherwise, you carry her around with you everywhere you go. Forgiving her is not the same as forgiving what she did. Many on TAM disagree with me but it really helps moving on. Before I forgave her I was always in the victim chair. Deservedly so. But, the anger of betrayal was a weight I no longer wanted to carry.
> 
> ...


I recall CG in 2013...... he was a young Padawan.

Now...Jedi Master he is.... 

Keen is knowledge he shares.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> For part of the day.
> 
> As far as my picker; I'm not entirely sure I want to even try with a woman. They are nice, easy on the eyes, etc. however, I don't want to experience anything like I did in the last year ever again.
> I'm really just disinterested in the idea.
> ...


That was from your childhood Hex. Re-read the post I mentioned Uptown in..... and

your reply. When we are not looking, we can not see it. But it is right in front of us.

50k feet....unemotional, observations..... that is what Conrad taught way before I came here, over 5 years ago.

ReGroup is a road map..... legendary thread. I recommend it to anyone who has children and

are dealing with a plain 'ol BSC WW.

I was like you..... when I filed for D.... I was done with females. I had hobbies to occupy my time.

I've dated and been in love, three times in those five+ years. Two did not go as I was hoping so, 

I ended them. The last, she did. Course she is still around, jury's still out.

If she hadn't called it, I was about to..... But you have to put it out there.... but be prepared

to walk the F away at any moment. I was not going to allow for WC to skew my view on love.

The better you know yourself, the better and quicker you know when you.... "are done" with someone.

Author....... what is your story about?


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> No. Since we were close to an agreement, it was postponed. Waiting on taxes (which are done) and a way to transfer the 401k. Its basically logistics at this point.
> In the meantime, I find myself missing my daughter a great deal when shes with her mother.
> 
> Odd that something was said here as yesterday I had somewhat of a conversation with the ex. The first in some time.
> ...


Just a pice of advice. Don't take her phone calls. Let them go to voicemail. Respond by text only if it's about your kid. Otherwise ignore. Get your communication down to very simple text or email messages.

You'll be surprised at how much that'll help.


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Author....... what is your story about?



My life and belief systems.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> Just a pice of advice. Don't take her phone calls. Let them go to voicemail. Respond by text only if it's about your kid. Otherwise ignore. Get your communication down to very simple text or email messages.
> 
> You'll be surprised at how much that'll help.


YES, THIS!! :iagree: You are still talking to her waaayyyy too much. KIDS ONLY. And feel free to just hang up on her when she starts in on something else, you dont owe her a damn thing.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Now, I could care less. In fact, I would much rather have:
> A Mustang GT or Shelby GT350
> WRX STI
> Golf R
> ...


Having spent a good part of the last month looking at motorcycle's I dont need and not looking for dates I know exactly how this feels.....


----------



## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Hexagon said:


> Court is taking a while because of our attorneys are dragging their feet. Thats really all it is. My attorney was a very good friend of my fathers and hasn't charged me (so far) more than $500. So, I'm not gonna hassle the guy. That and I'm still under her medical through her work. I have something called antiphospholipid antibody syndrome. Its a clotting disorder and my daily shots are expensive so...the wait is just fine for me.


Makes sense now. You lucked out with the legal assistance from a family friend! Have you looked into the Obamacare market place in our state for medical coverage? Depending on how much you make you may qualify for Medicaid until you get insurance of your own. Hopefully medical won’t be an issue for you.



> As far as my contact with her...
> I don't speak with her unless its about our daughter. 2-3 times a week and they are brief and only about parent stuff. (her bait last week was the first in a very long time).
> How do I feel about her?
> I cant say that I hate her however, I don't like her as a human.
> *I find her disgusting and due to this, I'm a tad disgusted with myself for having been with her. *


The bolded, to me your words speak more to her character than yours. There will always be liars and we, unfortunately, can’t know when we’re dealing with one until the liar wants us to know.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Not said:


> Makes sense now. You lucked out with the legal assistance from a family friend! Have you looked into the Obamacare market place in our state for medical coverage? Depending on how much you make you may qualify for Medicaid until you get insurance of your own. Hopefully medical won’t be an issue for you.
> 
> 
> 
> The bolded, to me your words speak more to her character than yours. There will always be liars and we, unfortunately, can’t know when we’re dealing with one until the liar wants us to know.


And... the toxic people leech onto codependents like gorillas scarf bananas.

Only when our eyes open do we understand.


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Ok, I made it through a "lot" of Regroup's thread. Its um....looooooooooooooooooooooooong.
That will take a while.

As far as my stbx, its clear she is trying to get my acceptance and/or forgivness in order for her to move on. 
Its why shes always trying to be chummy with me now.
I met her at a store in town to pick up my daughter today and she just wanted to chat it up and be friendly. 
No.
No thank you. 

I didn't see this coming but I kind of enjoy NOT talking with her. I enjoy cutting her short. I'm polite yet dismissive. I like it and have for some time.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good job. Keep doing this and eventually she will get the hint that you have no desire to be friends with her.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Ok, I made it through a "lot" of Regroup's thread. Its um....looooooooooooooooooooooooong.
> That will take a while.
> 
> As far as my stbx, its clear she is trying to get my acceptance and/or forgivness in order for her to move on.
> ...


Gotta run!

You take care now!

Where you going? Hey, I've got plans.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hexagon said:


> My life and belief systems.


 Hex, gently, are you aware that people's belief systems CHANGE over time? Based on experiences, setbacks, reality? It's not a static thing. It's not something you can parade around like the 
Ten Commandments.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hexagon said:


> Ok, I made it through a "lot" of Regroup's thread. Its um....looooooooooooooooooooooooong.
> That will take a while.


 So what is your take on it?



> I didn't see this coming but I kind of enjoy NOT talking with her. I enjoy cutting her short. I'm polite yet dismissive. I like it and have for some time.


Just be aware that what you're experiencing an ego boost -and is NOT necessarily the TRUTH.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Ok, I made it through a "lot" of *Regroup's thread. Its um....looooooooooooooooooooooooong.
> That will take a while.*
> 
> As far as my stbx, its clear she is trying to get my acceptance and/or forgivness in order for her to move on.
> ...


About 50 pages covers baseball LOL!

Pay attention to Conrad, Mavish, and HappyMan64 (RIP)

Quite a few Padawans cut their teeth on that thread


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> Hex, gently, are you aware that people's belief systems CHANGE over time? Based on experiences, setbacks, reality? It's not a static thing. It's not something you can parade around like the
> Ten Commandments.


Absolutely. The dramatic way in how they've changed is specifically what the point of it is.


----------



## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Absolutely. The dramatic way in how they've changed is specifically what the point of it is.


Not just this but also the speed at which it happens.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> As far as my stbx, its clear she is trying to get my acceptance and/or forgivness in order for her to move on.
> Its why shes always trying to be chummy with me now.


Yep, many will try for a while to be chummy and sweep their actions under the rug so they can say "See? It all worked out for the best. It was meant to happen this way." It's a way of alleviating any guilt they have (see also: my ex wife, et al).


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Yep, many will try for a while to be chummy and sweep their actions under the rug so they can say "See? It all worked out for the best. It was meant to happen this way." It's a way of alleviating any guilt they have (see also: my ex wife, et al).


She got any room in that tee-pee for Hex's XW?


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> She got any room in that tee-pee for Hex's XW?


The more the merrier I'm sure!! :wink2:


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> Hex, gently, are you aware that people's belief systems CHANGE over time? Based on experiences, setbacks, reality? It's not a static thing. It's not something you can parade around like the
> Ten Commandments.


I think i should probably add that it's not on my recent experience and divorce. 
My family history and it's causation to my belief systems.
Christianity to atheism to a small belief in simulation theory to agnosticism.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> I think i should probably add that it's not on my recent experience and divorce.
> My family history and it's causation to my belief systems.
> Christianity to atheism to a small belief in simulation theory to agnosticism.


I'd fancy to say you are a fan of CS Lewis. He is my fav. He went from Christian to atheist, to 

Christian apologist. Good wide spectrum view. Vastly different than the norm. 

If you are a fan of his works, I'd like to recommend a few....if you have not already read them.

My fav is Abolition of Man.... have you read it? Changed my entire viewpoint on humanity.

Can I ask you..... you stated you had highly educated parents and they did not "mistreat" you.

But did you feel a touch of "being left out" with their age and the age gap with siblings?

Could that have gave you a sense of over attachment and abandonment? 

If it didn't.... just dismiss. But if it did.... did that shape your desire to make "damn sure" that

once you were M.... your child(ren) were not going to grow up that way? No matter what.....

Thanks for opening up on your novel. Some of mine are about a guy who turns 40 and when he wakes up

on his 40th birthday, he decides to commit suicide if he can not find a reason to remain alive.

He traverses back to stages in his life.... and learns whether or not it would have been any different

if he could have chosen different decisions. One is simply about a guy who started a year off

miserable, sad, and depressed..... during that one year, everything changed. Sorta a "every person's"

story. My fav and I think by far the deepest, three book trilogy about a guy from childhood to age 40.

Many loves, many heartbreaks, many "coming of age" moments. Somewhat a "romantic tragedy."

Was it somewhat about my travels through life...... egh... to a degree yeah, maybe some but not all.

Those three books did a psycho-therapeutic number on me.... in a good way.

If I never had kids..... and if that is to be the case, I will never marry again.... those three books are

what I want to be remembered by. A common man on an "everyone's journey."


----------



## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Can I ask you..... you stated you had highly educated parents and they did not "mistreat" you.
> 
> But did you feel a touch of "being left out" with their age and the age gap with siblings?
> 
> ...


Absolutely. My mother flirted with abuse but I'm not sure she crossed the line. She was just that damn hard and cold. I always wanted to be close to my children in a way that I didn't have it. In no more mr nice guy, he brought up abandonment as a precurser for the syndrome.

No Lewis for me. I use to be a fan of fiction but not so much any more. Tolken fan for sure but that was many years ago. 
Later in life I fell in love with Hitchens' writing.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Absolutely. My mother flirted with abuse but I'm not sure she crossed the line. She was just that damn hard and cold. I always wanted to be close to my children in a way that I didn't have it. In no more mr nice guy, he brought up abandonment as a precurser for the syndrome.
> 
> No Lewis for me. I use to be a fan of fiction but not so much any more. Tolken fan for sure but that was many years ago.
> Later in life I fell in love with Hitchens' writing.


Guess what... if our parents are cold to us, we're attracted to cold.

If you wonder what MEM means when he advises partners of disordered spouses to "turn on the emotional air conditioner", that's why.

She had you in the deep freeze for years... and it felt "normal" to you.

You must do your best to de-program that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

Bickering with other posters is a thread jack. If it can't be avoided, limit your constructive advice to the OP.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I could use a little advice on the anger side of things. 
With as little as I speak with her, I still have to on occasion. One of the things we need to take care of is the taxes. Per my lawyer, we filed joint. Rather than wait on the divorce hearing, he decided to file joint so we can speed things up.
Soooo we did. 
I'm in a hurry to get this over with so knowing the risks, I just let the return go to her account. To argue this would be a never ending battle which would drag things out.
Whatever.....just give me half and lets get this over with.

A short version of the coversation was just....shes not giving me exactly half. Shes keeping some because "i owe her money". Which I do, I just cant afford to pay her this minute. Doesn't matter though because shes doing whatever she wants.
After that frustrating discussion, I asked to speak with my daughter.
My daughter said that shes having dinner with "mom and gammy".
Great....that means my ex is with her mother. She has an audience. I already knew what was in store so I rushed to get off the phone.
"Well honey, I love you. You get to come home tomorrow".
And I hear......"ITS NOT HER HOME. Its YOUR apartment. She has two homes".
I didn't say anything. Discussing ANYTHING is spinning my wheels. 

Ugh.......keeping my mouth shut is the challenge at this point. How do you guys do it? If she sees a button, she will push it. 
I can keep contact to a minimum however.....it still has to happen.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She knows how to push your buttons..... all M couples do. And yes they are pushed during a D.

Let this slide off your back.... she wants an audience as you said. She has you painted as the savage

and will take any opportunity to make you look the part. This is how she will be... until she hooks 

another guy. You are her "de facto" H still.... until she finds another. But she will also be the

truly repentant XW who wants you back... when she has no man in her life. Wasn't she trying to sweet

talk you back recently? Her actions are like a roller coaster and no... you are not riding that ride anymore.

The money.... she will make sure you never see it, especially if it is owed. Even if you owed her nothing,

you would never see it. Even if she owed you... you'd never see it. @honcho can tell you about XW not

paying what they owe. Consider that cash gone. The next time she calls her place home and your place

an apartment, remind her it is rude to talk with her mouth full.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Absolutely. My mother flirted with abuse but I'm not sure she crossed the line. She was just that damn hard and cold. I always wanted to be close to my children in a way that I didn't have it. In no more mr nice guy, he brought up abandonment as a precurser for the syndrome.
> 
> No Lewis for me. I use to be a fan of fiction but not so much any more. Tolken fan for sure but that was many years ago.
> Later in life I fell in love with Hitchens' writing.


About Lewis.... I didn't mean Narnia. More Abolition of Man, written during WW2. Great book.

Lectured from it often. Did you like Christopher and Peter or just one? Seems Dawkins has mellowed in his

later years. Do you read Sam Harris any?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> She knows how to push your buttons..... all M couples do. And yes they are pushed during a D.
> 
> Let this slide off your back.... she wants an audience as you said. She has you painted as the savage
> 
> ...


No she wasnt ever trying to talk me back. Just nicer than usual. Now its back to hatefulness. 

Yes I like Sam and Richard but I'm straying away from that stuff for now. Just because my religious views have changed so much....just within the last year.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

It is the abandonment v. engulfment as mentioned earlier. My STBXW/XW tried that numerous times.

If she could get you back, she would. It would be honey and wine the first six months... then it would

slowly disappear. When she hates herself, attempt to dump on you. When she has those lucid moments,

she would like to have you back. Her emotions are like a 600 lb guy on a bungee cord drop

of 2,000 ft. Did you ever read The God Delusion?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

If you owe her the money let her have it. It's not worth your sanity.

Drama is her fuel - chaos her comfort.

Disconnecting those buttons is empowering for you and torture for her.

I recommend you learn how to do this.

Something about getting to 30k as I recall...






Hexagon said:


> I could use a little advice on the anger side of things.
> With as little as I speak with her, I still have to on occasion. One of the things we need to take care of is the taxes. Per my lawyer, we filed joint. Rather than wait on the divorce hearing, he decided to file joint so we can speed things up.
> Soooo we did.
> I'm in a hurry to get this over with so knowing the risks, I just let the return go to her account. To argue this would be a never ending battle which would drag things out.
> ...


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> I could use a little advice on the anger side of things.
> With as little as I speak with her, I still have to on occasion. One of the things we need to take care of is the taxes. Per my lawyer, we filed joint. Rather than wait on the divorce hearing, he decided to file joint so we can speed things up.
> Soooo we did.
> I'm in a hurry to get this over with so knowing the risks, I just let the return go to her account. To argue this would be a never ending battle which would drag things out.
> ...


Don't even try to get the refund money, it's just not worth the effort and nonsense. If your stbx considers this a "victory" let her have this big ole win. It's meaningless really. 

You've got to make an effort in yourself to take the buttons away from her and it's a work in process. You do have to just let the snide comments slide off your back and it gets easier in time. Remember that most of these comments are driven because she wants you to say something, she wants you to engage her. The less you care about what she says the more it will irritate her. She will push harder to find those buttons. Just keep taking the power to push them away from her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Copied from older post, only names were changed....
**************************************
None of this verbal crap has a thing to do with your daughter.

This is about your wife searching for codependent Hex, searching for some lever to exert control.

Think of it like a soda machine. She is used to pushing her favorite button and getting her favorite flavor. 

She simply is flabbergasted that the button no longer works.

And, she is seeing your male resolve for the first time in a long time.

That is attractive to her.

If you stand up to her, you'll stand up to the world (for her)

Remember - fitness tests.

Conrad said that..... wish he were still here


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hexagon said:


> I could use a little advice on the anger side of things.
> With as little as I speak with her, I still have to on occasion. One of the things we need to take care of is the taxes. Per my lawyer, we filed joint. Rather than wait on the divorce hearing, he decided to file joint so we can speed things up.
> Soooo we did.
> I'm in a hurry to get this over with so knowing the risks, I just let the return go to her account. To argue this would be a never ending battle which would drag things out.
> ...


meh, this happens all the time. You just have your accountant and lawyer keep track of what went to her and what went to you. The judge will even it out.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> I could use a little advice on the anger side of things.
> With as little as I speak with her, I still have to on occasion. One of the things we need to take care of is the taxes. Per my lawyer, we filed joint. Rather than wait on the divorce hearing, he decided to file joint so we can speed things up.
> Soooo we did.
> I'm in a hurry to get this over with so knowing the risks, I just let the return go to her account. To argue this would be a never ending battle which would drag things out.
> ...


I’d just answer everything with a half-hearted “Blah blah blah...”.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I’d just answer everything with a half-hearted “Blah blah blah...”.




Don’t answer at all.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

turnera said:


> meh, this happens all the time. You just have your accountant and lawyer keep track of what went to her and what went to you. The judge will even it out.




Yes, let the lawyers work it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Copied from older post, only names were changed....
> **************************************
> None of this verbal crap has a thing to do with your daughter.
> 
> ...




In case you haven’t read RG yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Copied from older post, only names were changed....
> **************************************
> None of this verbal crap has a thing to do with your daughter.
> 
> ...


That soda machine analogy has stuck in my head since I read it on RG's thread. Had to skip some pages since I don't give two ****s about baseball but some truly stellar advice.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hex,

People like your wife thrive on attention. Cutting that off is the most hurtful thing you can do to her. So...

Silence !!!!!


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Tomorrow is the final hearing. If all goes well, tomorrow afternoon i will be divorced from the worst human being I have ever met.
There was an issue with the 401k. I wanted hers as some sort of financial compensation. So instead of taking out a personal loan, they are transferring it to my 401k I have at work that I have never and will probably never touch. 
Its....whatever to me.
I just want done with it.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Hexagon said:


> Tomorrow is the final hearing. If all goes well, tomorrow afternoon i will be divorced from the worst human being I have ever met.
> There was an issue with the 401k. I wanted hers as some sort of financial compensation. So instead of taking out a personal loan, they are transferring it to my 401k I have at work that I have never and will probably never touch.
> Its....whatever to me.
> I just want done with it.


Good luck man, after tomorrow, let the full healing start to begin and then the thriving!


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Tomorrow is the final hearing. If all goes well, tomorrow afternoon i will be divorced from the worst human being I have ever met.
> There was an issue with the 401k. I wanted hers as some sort of financial compensation. So instead of taking out a personal loan, they are transferring it to my 401k I have at work that I have never and will probably never touch.
> Its....whatever to me.
> I just want done with it.


If memory serves, the Qadro will allow you to make a one time withdrawl with only 10% penalty.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Well...it's done. I was officially divorced when I left the courthouse today. 
I'm not entirely sure how I feel either. 
How some people can take their vows and mean them while the other doesn't really care leaves me in awe. Ugh, even the memories are tainted. I don't even know what was even real. Was I being lied to then too? It doesn't matter now. 
People warned me about getting involved with a rehabilitating addict. "She deserves a chance. People can change". 
Well its clearly obvious I have a bad "picker". I don't think i've met anyone that can ignore a red flag as well as I can. 
As a result, I think i'm tapping out. I'm not entirely sure I could believe another word another woman says to me. So be it. I'd rather have a Shelby GT350 anyway.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Well...it's done. I was officially divorced when I left the courthouse today.
> I'm not entirely sure how I feel either.
> How some people can take their vows and mean them while the other doesn't really care leaves me in awe. Ugh, even the memories are tainted. I don't even know what was even real. Was I being lied to then too? It doesn't matter now.
> People warned me about getting involved with a rehabilitating addict. "She deserves a chance. People can change".
> ...


The whole final hearing thing is very anti climatic. I remember the thoughts driving home afterward, we've lived apart for 3 years and now the state finally agrees we are divorced. Other than missing a day of work for the hearing nothing changed. In a few weeks you'll get a copy of the decree in the mail and that seemed more of an annoyance than anything else, I tossed it in a drawer and never looked at it again. 

The divorce experience is mentally exhausting and makes you cynical for a time. Take some time and recharge your batteries but buy the Shelby > it will make you feel better:smile2:


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Hexagon said:


> As a result, I think i'm tapping out. I'm not entirely sure I could believe another word another woman says to me. So be it. I'd rather have a Shelby GT350 anyway.


Well then, as a fellow Mustang enthusiast, I feel obligated to give you a little porn.

Maybe you like vintage (1965 GT-350):










More of the girl-next-door type (Base GT-350):










Then there is the performer of the year award winner (GT-350R):










And last but not least is the best new starlet award winner (GT-500):


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

FSJ,

Those are dreamy!

Especially the first one.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Hexagon said:


> Well...it's done. I was officially divorced when I left the courthouse today.
> I'm not entirely sure how I feel either.
> How some people can take their vows and mean them while the other doesn't really care leaves me in awe. Ugh, even the memories are tainted. I don't even know what was even real. Was I being lied to then too? It doesn't matter now.
> People warned me about getting involved with a rehabilitating addict. "She deserves a chance. People can change".
> ...


You know, I felt a weight that I was not even aware of life from my shoulders. It was literally like someone came up to me and said, "Here, let me take that 1000lb weight off of your shoulders. There does that feel better". 

At some point you will feel better. And I know I am a horrible person, the fact that she did not get what she wanted, by a mile, and the fact that she was panicking, just made me feel great. 

It was like, yeah, take that, now you get to figure out how to live like an adult, and make a living for yourself.

Does that make me a bad person?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Well then, as a fellow Mustang enthusiast, I feel obligated to give you a little porn.
> 
> Maybe you like vintage (1965 GT-350):
> 
> ...



I'm a fan of the base 350. The R is nice but carbon fiber wheels and no backseat is a killer. I don't know much about the 500 though. I'm assuming its competition for the demon. 
@blues. I don't have that relief feeling. I do take a little comfort in that she is not handling life well now. Shes lost close to 90lbs. Probably drugs. I hear that coke is big where she works. 
Funny that you mentioned that feeling though. Yesterday I even thought, "i thought I was suppose to feel better".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That means that you've been focusing on the wrong things.

Have you read the Jesse Stone books (Robert B. Parker)? Best author I ever read. Anyway, this series is about a man who marries a wannabe star and proceeds to get emotionally trashed for decades because of her. Makes me think of you. Might be a good series to read to help you work out your feelings.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> That means that you've been focusing on the wrong things.
> 
> Have you read the Jesse Stone books (Robert B. Parker)? Best author I ever read. Anyway, this series is about a man who marries a wannabe star and proceeds to get emotionally trashed for decades because of her. Makes me think of you. Might be a good series to read to help you work out your feelings.


I'll check it out. I have had the motivation to write a lot lately and would like to get published so my mind has been on that. Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will put it in line. 

Since our final hearing, she has been the single most hateful and miserable ***** I have ever encountered. 
She tries to make small talk about how she can't seem to handle life and how bad its been. That of course is in between her being a disrespectful ****. Whats the reason for this? Not that it matters, I'm just curious. 

I would "like" to be done with this novel by my birthday on july 12th. Then its the red pen, editing, and looking for a publisher. 
I know its not the best to write an autobiography with the hopes of getting a payout but, i want that shelby...or a ford raptor. lol
It may seem a bit comical but I'm gonna send a copy to HBO once its done.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Hex, now that the final hearing is done, why continue the small talk? Shouldn't any/all final "housecleaning" items be done through the attorneys?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Hex, now that the final hearing is done, why continue the small talk? Shouldn't any/all final "housecleaning" items be done through the attorneys?


Typically yes but her tantrums don't bother me enough to go out of my way for it. This is all done during our exchanges.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Hexagon said:


> Typically yes but her tantrums don't bother me enough to go out of my way for it. This is all done during our exchanges.


I get that, but now that you're no longer married, you no longer need to be that punching bag. She fired you as her husband and that is no longer your job to listen to her ranting. She's just going to keep doing it as long as you allow it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

TheGoodGuy said:


> I get that, but now that you're no longer married, you no longer need to be that punching bag. She fired you as her husband and that is no longer your job to listen to her ranting. She's just going to keep doing it as long as you allow it.


Exactly! If you got fired from your job, you wouldn't tolerate your former boss calling and b!tching you out over the phone, would you? Of course you wouldn't, what goes on there is no longer your problem or your business. Same applies here... she fired you from your job as her husband. Tell her that her rantings will no longer be tolerated, and hang up the phone when they start. Or ignore any ranty texts.


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## MThomas (May 8, 2018)

I get the mouthy texts from the wife. I do not respond. At times it is hard to due to my laughter. Mainly since we still live in the same house. She does not want to talk to me much. I would hear all the babble and reply "And whose actions got you to where you are?" Yelling, screaming follow. I walk away with a smile.

I'm just waiting for her to want to argue in front of the kids. Haven't yet but it's coming. Your ex seems to want you back when she needs you for something or just to drop complaints on. And this appears to be quite often. Quite similar to my situation. 

Nothing like a nice opening text about how the kids enjoyed the camping trip, followed by the i hate yous, you ruined my life, I wish I never met you. After a few of those I began thinking I wish I'd have never met you too.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Well then, as a fellow Mustang enthusiast, I feel obligated to give you a little porn.
> 
> Maybe you like vintage (1965 GT-350):
> 
> ...


Dude that solid blue with a big, fat, white racing stripe down the middle would be sooooo sweet.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hex..... hows yousa doin?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Hex..... hows yousa doin?


Living a day at a time.
I'm actually writing a book and came here to revisit part of my story. I'm about 70,000 words in and only have a couple chapters to go. Then I'm off to find an agent and/or publisher, something I know nothing about.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

How’s the job search going Hex? I want to read your book.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Not said:


> How’s the job search going Hex? I want to read your book.


Put on hold until my book is done. I have the luxury of being able to write and edit there.
Know any publishers?


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Hexagon said:


> Put on hold until my book is done. I have the luxury of being able to write and edit there.
> Know any publishers?


Haha, no I don’t. I remember you mentioning the book earlier in the thread and I got the impression the book would have sort of a metaphysical type of theme. I do love those types of books and own several. I can look to see what publishing houses they came from.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hexagon said:


> Living a day at a time.
> I'm actually writing a book and came here to revisit part of my story. I'm about 70,000 words in and only have a couple chapters to go. Then I'm off to find an agent and/or publisher, something I know nothing about.


https://selfpublishingadvice.org/editorial-advice-for-authors/


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Living a day at a time.
> I'm actually writing a book and came here to revisit part of my story. I'm about 70,000 words in and only have a couple chapters to go. Then I'm off to find an agent and/or publisher, something I know nothing about.


You going to be the next Dr. Phil?


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## Stormguy2018 (Jul 11, 2018)

Your wife sounds like a true psycho. Divorce, move on, and try and get custody of your daughter. Shouldn't be too hard with her history of heroin addiction. 

Sorry man.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> You going to be the next Dr. Phil?


Funny thing about that. I got asked to be on the show just over a year ago.

Chuck, self publishing is too expensive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

About your story?


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

turnera said:


> About your story?


Part of it yes. Exwife drama. I entertained the thought as a possible vacation but she refused to even consider it.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Hexagon said:


> Part of it yes. Exwife drama. I entertained the thought as a possible vacation but she refused to even consider it.


Of course she did.

They'd have laughed her off the set.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am sorry for you but it is better you try and obtain custody of your daughter, your wife is a crackhead and although she may have tried to beat the demon as you put it, the character of those who go down this road are usually self centred and not to be trusted. You sound too trusting. Use this as an opportunity to be free of someone who will make your life miserable. Go see a lawyer and get your ducks in a row.
Remember when she had the affair, she showed you who she was, she was just using you to get a way to stand on her feet after jail, I am sorry.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

It's been almost a year since I started writing my story. 
I'm going through my last editing phase then going through Kindle publishing. It will be for sale on Amazon. I've decided waiting for almost, if not longer, than a year or few for an agent isn't for me. So I'm going to self-publish. 
I need the money sooner rather than later and I'm ready for visible progress in my life. 

My tastes have altered ever so slightly. I want a Shelby Raptor. Selling a book on Amazon doesn't do that alone so I have gathered some marketing.....tactics. 
I happen to know some Hollywood connections. One person, a creative executive or a production company, is friends with a few big names in LA. If I can get a little boost from her, maybe I can sell this to Hulu, Netflix, or HBO which is what I really want. 
I still make **** but I'm working towards a greater goal. I see my daughter 60% of the time so that could be a lot worse. 
And I've discovered a new term which I've kind of embraced.
MGTOW.


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Its done. If anyone is interested in buying a copy, DM me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Congrats!!


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