# Do Cheaters prefer Married or Single Partners?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

This question came up at a lively discussion over the holidays with some military buddies. Seems (at least in our group) that most cheating spouses either preferred or just ended up with a married OM/OW. I just wonder is this the norm for non-military types as well, or does it make any difference?

There are some pros/cons either way (not forgetting that cheating in and of itself is a big Con) for the WS to consider. For our group it was considered a pro if married because the OM/OW was less likely to get clingy, fall in love, or want to stay over all the time.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Wow. What a fun party! 

Married 


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I truly believe that the only prerequisite that cheaters primarily care for in a cheating partner is not necessarily whether they're single or married, but much rather the ease in which they get this newfound cheating partner of theirs to preeminently drop their drawers to the carpet!

I do believe that my RSXW is extremely qualified to answer that question and should be able to offer more than relevant testimony!*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Who would have thought that being in the military would have a down side.Married of course,less going out for drinks or meals in case of being recognised.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There was a cheater who posted here called The Bishop.

He was 'honest' here and reported that he chose to hit on married women for a variety of clinical reasons.

Less likely to be looking for a permanent partner, probably STD free and unlikely to want to leave their spouse. And if she got pregnant he could blame the husband. He told his APs that he was fixed, but he wasn't.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I would have to assume that the more attractive choice would be a married affair partner.

The playing field is much more equal as *both* stand to lose their marriages, families and financial holdings. A single affair partner doesn't have all that on the line so they might be more demanding as far as wanting their married AP to leave, or wanting more time with them, etc.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I think it is environment and convenience so, I do not know. So, if they work or interact with singles it will be an unmarried partner or vice versa. I just don't believe it is as logical as some of the current responses. There wouldn't be the phenomena of affairing down or huge age gaps, if logic entered the equation.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

It seems we give far too much credit to cheaters. However, it is common for people to convey onto others their thought process even when the others are not capable of it. To suggest that cheaters put so much thought into their partner selection suggests that they are capable of that much thought which is negated by how little thought goes into how their family, spouse and life will be forever catastrophically altered by their actions.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> It seems we give far too much credit to cheaters. However, it is common for people to convey onto others their thought process even when the others are not capable of it. To suggest that cheaters put so much thought into their partner selection suggests that they are capable of that much thought which is negated by how little thought goes into how their family, spouse and life will be forever catastrophically altered by their actions.


I agree with you 100%.  I am a serial wayward, who also has other male friends that are also serial waywards. Its an ugly truth but the reality is male cheaters don't really care as long as they get what they want out of it. I never really agreed with the post from that player (Bishop?) that people keep repeating around here. Certainly not saying that guys that relentlessly pursue married women don't exist, but it isn't the norm. There is no point to that. Serial cheaters don't exactly have long checklist. Basically two things on it. Is she attractive, and is she interested? Marital status isn't something that is on that checklist. If she isn't interested they won't waste anymore time on her. Simple as that.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> There was a cheater who posted here called The Bishop.


Wow Matt, I remember that dirt bag. I call him this because I have wondered how many families he broke up. It really pissed me off just to view his threads.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I agree with you 100%. I am a serial wayward, who also has other male friends that are also serial waywards. Its an ugly truth but the reality is male cheaters don't really care as long as they get what they want out of it. I never really agreed with the post from that player (Bishop?) that people keep repeating around here. Certainly not saying that guys that relentlessly pursue married women don't exist, but it isn't the norm. There is no point to that. Serial cheaters don't exactly have long checklist. Basically two things on it. Is she attractive, and is she interested? Marital status isn't something that is on that checklist. If she isn't interested they won't waste anymore time on her. Simple as that.


I applaud your honesty, sir. As I see it there are two main things that cheaters look for and they are penis and vagina. All else falls somewhere behind in importance with empathetic feelings for those they are betraying being close to, if not in, last place.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

rockon said:


> Wow Matt, I remember that dirt bag. I call him this because I have wondered how many families he broke up. It really pissed me off just to view his threads.


At least he realised that he had a problem.

He was receiving psychiatric help I think.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I never really agreed with the post from that player (Bishop?) that people keep repeating around here.


Pretty sure he was a fictional character.... Hardcore cheaters don't give a sh!t about marital status. They're sociopaths not psychopaths.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Pretty sure he was a fictional character.... Hardcore cheaters don't give a sh!t about marital status. They're sociopaths not psychopaths.


That's the reason why I kind of doubted he was real, or if he was real that he was exaggerating. The post read like a betrayed husbands nightmare scenario. You had all of these "innocent" wives that probably would never had cheated had it not been for his "game". It was a frightening post because it played on the insecurity that a lot of people have, that their well meaning spouse can be seduced away by a player or bad boy. The fact that he had done it to multiple wives made it all the more disturbing. I guess I saw it as a post purely made for shock value. But...I didn't really believe it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

NoChoice said:


> It seems we give far too much credit to cheaters. However, it is common for people to convey onto others their thought process even when the others are not capable of it. To suggest that cheaters put so much thought into their partner selection suggests that they are capable of that much thought which is negated by how little thought goes into how their family, spouse and life will be forever catastrophically altered by their actions.


Maybe, maybe not. I think the subconscious does a lot of deciding for us.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

Of the 3 women my husband was seriously involved with (that I know about) 2 were single and 1 was divorced.

Of his various ONS most of them were with college students so I would guess they were all single.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

You are all crazy! Don't you know that they never choose, it "just happens" ? 

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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> BetrayedDad said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure he was a fictional character.... Hardcore cheaters don't give a sh!t about marital status. They're sociopaths not psychopaths.
> ...


I have met some "pick-up artists" in my travels, and I think they are a lot like gamblers. They only tell you about the successes, and leave out all of the attempts. One guy I knew finally admitted that what he developed was a skill at discerning early on (upon meeting a new target) whether or not she would respond to further discussions, so as not to waste his time. He also would target many women, and figure that 10% had potential to escalate, so he received a lot of rejections on a given night.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I agree with you 100%. I am a serial wayward, who also has other male friends that are also serial waywards. Its an ugly truth but the reality is male cheaters don't really care as long as they get what they want out of it. I never really agreed with the post from that player (Bishop?) that people keep repeating around here. Certainly not saying that guys that relentlessly pursue married women don't exist, but it isn't the norm. There is no point to that. Serial cheaters don't exactly have long checklist. Basically two things on it. Is she attractive, and is she interested? Marital status isn't something that is on that checklist. If she isn't interested they won't waste anymore time on her. Simple as that.


The OM in my mess always pursued married women as his first choice. He always felt single were too much effort and competition. He felt married were easy prey and much easier to get rid of once he was bored with them. He's had years of practice and narrowed his pursuits, when he was younger he would chase anything and everything


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I think it is more common for cheaters to pursue other married cheaters, and also seem to be targeted by other married cheaters.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I think it is more common for cheaters to pursue other married cheaters, and also seem to be targeted by other married cheaters.


You probably think that because that's what you and your wife did.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My ex-husband was a serial cheater. He doesn't appear to have been very concerned with marital status. The women he had actual relationships with were split roughly evenly between married and unmarried. But, then, there were a fair number whose names he didn't know or remember, and about whom he knew pretty much nothing. So, clearly, he wasn't using it as a selection criteria.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> This question came up at a lively discussion over the holidays with some military buddies. Seems (at least in our group) that most cheating spouses either preferred or just ended up with a married OM/OW. I just wonder is this the norm for non-military types as well, or does it make any difference?
> 
> There are some pros/cons either way (not forgetting that cheating in and of itself is a big Con) for the WS to consider. For our group it was considered a pro if married because the OM/OW was less likely to get clingy, fall in love, or want to stay over all the time.


Married, then all you have to do is say nice things and get great sex, all the heavy lifting is for the BS to do.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Rowan said:


> My ex-husband was a serial cheater. He doesn't appear to have been very concerned with marital status. The women he had actual relationships with were split roughly evenly between married and unmarried. But, then, there were a fair number whose names he didn't know or remember, and about whom he knew pretty much nothing. So, clearly, he wasn't using it as a selection criteria.


That's how it is with serial cheaters. I'd bet good money that if a BS is having a difficult time getting details out of WS, half the time it isn't because they are lying or trying to hide anything. Its because the betrayal meant so little to them they honestly don't remember the details.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> That's how it is with serial cheaters. I'd bet good money that if a BS is having a difficult time getting details out of WS, half the time it isn't because they are lying or trying to hide anything. Its because the betrayal meant so little to them they honestly don't remember the details.


RH, as a serial cheater, would you consider yourself a sex addict?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

jld said:


> RH, as a serial cheater, would you consider yourself a sex addict?


I would say no. I think a sex addict is someone that can only focus on sex, all the time, to their detriment. I have done a lot of IC, I definitely don't think I am a sex addict. I also don't see myself as a sociopath. I do love attention from the opposite sex though, and I do get a lot of it. The rush of a new AP is honestly very addicting. If I am addicted to anything its probably that. If I had to say what is wrong with me I would say that I just don't view monogamy the way a normal person does. Which makes me a very poor choice of spouse for someone that places a high priority on monogamy, which is most people.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

browser said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is more common for cheaters to pursue other married cheaters, and also seem to be targeted by other married cheaters.
> ...


I wasn't necessarily referring to my personal situation, but yes most of those APs were married.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Former cheater, but mine was a specific set of instances that hopefully will never be repeated. OTOH, in my professional life, I see 3-5 marriages break down per year, of those that involve extra-marital affairs, the partners are usually married to others. Sad really.

I worked with a fellow who spent his morning trolling for moms outside his kid's school. He was divorced for a very long time, and his kid was going to a religious school. Part of his seduction technique was to befriend them, take them for coffee (he did not start work until 1PM-I know because I eventually ended up writing up the schedule), convince them that hubby was not doing the deed like he would (parochial school, pretty sexually repressive atmosphere, most of the moms were fairly repressed). He said (although I did NOT want details) that he easily scored once or twice a month. I told my wife about it, and her remark was: I wouldn't f**k him with someone else's c**t.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I would say no. I think a sex addict is someone that can only focus on sex, all the time, to their detriment. I have done a lot of IC, I definitely don't think I am a sex addict. I also don't see myself as a sociopath. I do love attention from the opposite sex though, and I do get a lot of it. The rush of a new AP is honestly very addicting. If I am addicted to anything its probably that. If I had to say what is wrong with me I would say that I just don't view monogamy the way a normal person does. Which makes me a very poor choice of spouse for someone that places a high priority on monogamy, which is most people.



Funny how you don't mention how you betrayed people who love you. How you lacked empathy, loyalty or even the basics of keeping your word, you know honesty? Most people feel guilt with they do those things and that helps them stop. Nah in your mind your problem is how you view monogamy. 

You wasted your money on IC so far.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Funny how you don't mention how you betrayed people who love you. How you lacked empathy, loyalty or even the basics of keeping your word, you know honesty? Most people feel guilt with they do those things and that helps them stop. Nah in your mind your problem is how you view monogamy.
> 
> You wasted your money on IC so far.


The question that was asked of me was, do I think I am a sex addict. The answer in my opinion is no. She didn't ask me if I felt guilty. I wasn't going to expand and tell my life story. That would have been even more of a thread jack. I don't understand why whenever someone asks a question about a cheaters perspective, and an actual cheater answers people make posts like the one you made. You basically filled in the blanks of my story for me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> The question that was asked of me was, do I think I am a sex addict. The answer in my opinion is no. She didn't ask me if I felt guilty. I wasn't going to expand and tell my life story. That would have been even more of a thread jack. I don't understand why whenever someone asks a question about a cheaters perspective, and an actual cheater answers people make posts like the one you made. You basically filled in the blanks of my story for me.


It sounded like you were saying after lots of IC you come to realize that your problem was you didn't view Monogamy in a normal way. That obviously wasn't your biggest problem in the full context of your actions. I guess what you are saying now is you only mean in this very narrow instance? You're right about the thread jack, I just thought it was interesting that that is your perspective and you are a serial cheater. If it was your full perspective it explains how you could be a serial cheater. Maybe that is not you whole perspective though. You should post your story. End of thread jack.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Not a thread jack. This thread is for cheaters (and those who know them) to comment on their experiences. If anything, it could help a potential BS to be observant of those who would target their spouse! Apparently married folks are easier to approach/convince.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MD, cheaters really prefer anyone who will stay with them after they cheat because then they can have their cake and eat it too.

Just saying.


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## SA2017 (Dec 27, 2016)

here is the ugly truth: cheaters don't care.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It seems that the advantage with single people is that they can get away more easily for the assignations. Also, it is more likely that the assignations can occur at their place instead of having to pay for a hotel room. or borrow someone else's place.

But the disadvantages are that they have less to lose. I can imagine one f^cking with a married affair partner. But then it could have a dark and ugly ending like Matchpoint (Woody Allen's film with Scarlett Johansen.)


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> It sounded like you were saying after lots of IC you come to realize that your problem was you didn't view Monogamy in a normal way. That obviously wasn't your biggest problem in the full context of your actions. I guess what you are saying now is you only mean in this very narrow instance? You're right about the thread jack, I just thought it was interesting that that is your perspective and you are a serial cheater. If it was your full perspective it explains how you could be a serial cheater. Maybe that is not you whole perspective though. You should post your story. End of thread jack.


I would post my story, but I guess I don't really see the point. It would probably trigger a lot of folks for no reason. What I mean by that is I have pretty much given up on trying to be normal, so no point in seeking advice anymore. I just keep failing and letting everybody down. At what point does one realize this is who they really are? Thats where I'm at. Its not that I don't feel guilty, its that I've failed to change so many times I've just reached the acceptance phase.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I would post my story, but I guess I don't really see the point. It would probably trigger a lot of folks for no reason. What I mean by that is I have pretty much given up on trying to be normal, so no point in seeking advice anymore. I just keep failing and letting everybody down. At what point does one realize this is who they really are? Thats where I'm at. Its not that I don't feel guilty, its that I've failed to change so many times I've just reached the acceptance phase.


People are responsible for their own triggers, RH. You should not accept to carry that for them. It actually limits their growth if you do.

I wish you would post your story here. I know you have said you struggle. Being open and honest about it could help a lot of people, including yourself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> That's the reason why I kind of doubted he was real, or if he was real that he was exaggerating. The post read like a betrayed husbands nightmare scenario. You had all of these "innocent" wives that probably would never had cheated had it not been for his "game". It was a frightening post because it played on the insecurity that a lot of people have, that their well meaning spouse can be seduced away by a player or bad boy. The fact that he had done it to multiple wives made it all the more disturbing. I guess I saw it as a post purely made for shock value. But...I didn't really believe it.


Really? I worked with someone very much like him a good few years ago. So he might not have been fictional.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Really? I worked with someone very much like him a good few years ago. So he might not have been fictional.


I don't know....not saying guys like him don't exist. I just don't think they are the norm. Why would any of them ever bother to post here? Also, it seemed like a boastful post. I am a serial cheater too, but I don't post details of my exploits. What would be the point of that other than to rile people up. Clearly the post stuck, because years later people are still referring to it. I don't know....I guess every serial cheater is different. All I can say is all of that "game" he talked about in his post honestly isn't even necessary. Also half the time its the woman that pursues the affair or at the very least puts her self out there in such a way that it makes it obvious. I have long maintained that I never bedded a married woman. Well....that isn't true. The first one lied about her status. But the other two didn't. All I can say is it did NOT take a any game or a long period of flirtation, or compliments, etc. etc. There was immediate mutual sexual attraction, and we followed through on it. If anything I think sometimes we put too much emphasis on the compliments/attention aspect of why married women have affairs. For a lot of them it really is about the sex. With that said I never specifically targeted married women. But if they were interested. I didn't say no.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't know....not saying guys like him don't exist. I just don't think they are the norm. Why would any of them ever bother to post here? Also, it seemed like a boastful post. *I am a serial cheater too, but I don't post details of my exploits. What would be the point of that other than to rile people up.* Clearly the post stuck, because years later people are still referring to it. I don't know....I guess every serial cheater is different. All I can say is all of that "game" he talked about in his post honestly isn't even necessary. Also half the time its the woman that pursues the affair or at the very least puts her self out there in such a way that it makes it obvious. I have long maintained that I never bedded a married woman. Well....that isn't true. The first one lied about her status. But the other two didn't. All I can say is it did NOT take a any game or a long period of flirtation, or compliments, etc. etc. There was immediate mutual sexual attraction, and we followed through on it. If anything I think sometimes we put too much emphasis on the compliments/attention aspect of why married women have affairs. For a lot of them it really is about the sex. With that said I never specifically targeted married women. But if they were interested. I didn't say no.


I think it could educate people.

Honest question, RH. Do you just not want to face up to what you do?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

jld said:


> I think it could educate people.
> 
> Honest question, RH. Do you just not want to face up to what you do?


Thats a good question, that could be part of it. But...at the same time what could it really educate anyone on? I still don't see the point of it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Thats a good question, that could be part of it. But...at the same time what could it really educate anyone on? I still don't see the point of it.


We could learn how a serial cheater operates, how he feels, etc. An expose.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

jld said:


> We could learn how a serial cheater operates, how he feels, etc. An expose.


Well when you put it that way it could help some people. I will think about it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> We could learn how a serial cheater operates, how he feels, etc. An expose.


If I remember correctly, he began posting here after he had started counselling.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

jld said:


> We could learn how a serial cheater operates, how he feels, etc. An expose.


It would be good to know what red flags to watch out for when still dating.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

What I heard or seen myself, I think in general its (convenience first / married 2nd ) - At conventions of ANY sort where people all over the state or country meet, they drink and screw at night - do business during the day. Co-workers or simply others in the industry.

I've been approached by a woman at a hotel once a long time ago who lives 800miles away. At that time, *IF* I knew she was married I wouldn't have cared as I was a single guy, already drunk at a nice hotel being hit on by a good looking out-of-town girl, wanting NSA sex. But being friendly and talking about "visiting her" when I visit family in that same town, it chased her away. If she was SINGLE - she would have been like "cool, sure - maybe - let's screw" - but instead she quickly ended the conversation, I knew I blew it within a few minutes. Being far away for a quick NSA sex becomes a problem if the other party is local after all. Thus I realized her game, talked to a PLAYER friend of mine who picks up chicks at hotels, biz, etc who agreed with my theory.

Listening to a few women, they have brought up married men as an attractive target because they can get the **** they want, and not have to date and such and be back home to husband and kids. A player on the radio talked about using $20 "wedding rings" to pick up women in bars (in hotels) for that exact reason. They are on business, horny - see a nice dressed man alone in a bar and go from there.

It seems serial cheaters who are always looking for a mark, are going for tactics that work on married targets. As we talked here with many BS, stressors in life create cracks in marriages that are generally always there - they come and go with life. We just moved, the stress of the move has us bickering a bit - but we ALSO talk about it too. Realizing a stressful situation is affecting how we talk to each other.

Single people DON'T have these stressors that married people have, especially those with children. Going back to single life for 5 weeks has reminded me of that. Before I got married and had a kid at 40+ years old... I partied hard in my 30s. I went to bed when I wanted to. I left to do fun things WHEN I wanted to. etc, etc. With married life, there is work, bills, kids, diapers, clothes, working with your SO's schedule - then kid's schedule, wanna go out dancing with your wife - easy. With a child, not so much - setup a babysitter in advance, then date, then pickup kid after date, then TRY after-date sex after all those extra steps! *sigh* Thus, the married woman or man *IS* an easier mark... old feelings of YOUTH comes back. "I don't have to answer to my wife/husband". But as we get older, the stability of a relationship has more value in many ways, but that also becomes a normal DULLNESS to life. Some of us handle it better than others, some completely fail, others don't bother trying.

The woman I want to date is my wife - we don't go out on date night as much as we would love to do so, but we do anything we can. I can still see the activities of my single friends childrenless - and yeah, they are having singles-fun, vs. my family/married friends sharing kid photos and yacking about school and work.

Also think about this. Many singles MEET at work. So it makes logical sense why 85% affairs start at work as well.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

TaDor said:


> The woman I want to date is my wife - we don't go out on date night as much as we would love to do so, but we do anything we can. I can still see the activities of my single friends childrenless - and yeah, they are having singles-fun, vs. my family/married friends sharing kid photos and yacking about school and work.
> 
> Also think about this. Many singles MEET at work. So it makes logical sense why 85% affairs start at work as well.


I would say that is an interesting assessment of affairs that happen while a couple is still young. Yet we have many, many stories of people who have been cheated on after decades of marriage, when the children are already in their late teens or have grown up and left the house. From what I've seen from friends, is this is a dangerous time in marriage. Some may call it the mid life crisis. Now, a couple is largely or completely free of the stresses of having young children and now that the kids are out of the house, it's time to get buck wild. 

Just from my friends and associates, I've seen three marriages end in divorce after the kids have grown up. And in every one of those one of them started to cheat. In those cases, they don't care if their AP is married or not, they just want to bang someone else, and perhaps re-live their youth or have the buttery feelings of love again. It's sickening.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hypothetically speaking (I have never cheated nor do I ever expect to), IF I were to cheat and had the luxury of choosing with whom, it would depend on my motivation:
a) if it's an exit affair, preferably a single partner, in case they're the one I'd move on with
b) if a revenge affair, then it would not matter much, but there would be fewer potential repercussions for a single partner, since it would be unlikely to continue
c) if it's an ongoing affair where I'd want to remain in the marriage and fill an unmet need elsewhere, then a married partner would be best, as they'd probably have similar motivations, want discretion, and not make difficult demands


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

lordmayhem said:


> TaDor said:
> 
> 
> > The woman I want to date is my wife - we don't go out on date night as much as we would love to do so, but we do anything we can. I can still see the activities of my single friends childrenless - and yeah, they are having singles-fun, vs. my family/married friends sharing kid photos and yacking about school and work.
> ...


Or perhaps their spouse refused to deal with a problematic marriage, even when they knew clearly that there was a problem. I see so many stories on TAM about sexless marriages and wonder at what point did the spouse stop caring?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@lordmayhem : It all depends on when the affair happens. Cheating happens before the wedding day (we have seen that here), days or weeks after the wedding, months, a few years - several years. Its when opportunity happens when the stressors are there or the person was already a crappy person to begin with.

If the cheating happens before or within the first few years of a relationship – that person was ALWAYS a cheater. The relationship was doomed.

Having children is a major stressor. Even cheating during a pregnancy or soon after the birth. Some will wait until after the kids have left the nest.

When I started back with the wife, going to MC, etc. I told her that we are to work on US for the long haul, not just for our son but also not to divorce / breakup after he turns 18, etc. That *IF* WE didn’t want to be together beyond our child, his adulthood, etc – to not waste each others time.

Dating again, the chase – new “sexual interests” does stimulate the brain. I was getting the rush of making out with someone NEW. But here is the thing, at least with me – is that I’ve not had relations with a handful of women, but many. And I know what I want… and my WW is the one that turns me on the most but on top of that – the idea of another male being any sort of a “father figure” makes me ill… and I want his mother to always be *HIS* only mother.

Today, was a stressor and a good day too. We discuss our challenges that the day brought and a course of action. We talked about our feelings on the issues and worked out what needed to be done.

@Married but Happy
My response to such justifications (and not an attack, just a different way to handle things)

a) get a divorce rather than do a messy exit affair. It created drama and makes your kids and family lose respect for you.
b) finish the divorce rather than the revenge affair, which in the end – makes you NO BETTER than the cheater. It’s a childish move to do… even if *THE THOUGHT* feels good in your skull. For some, it works out – it balances out things.
c) ongoing PA can turn into EA which in turn results in someone getting divorced, kids hate you, the shame that goes with it. Want to get sex on the side, talk with SO about opening the marriage and see how that works out.

I am still on both sides of the fence of “open relationship” – but its not for everyone. I still understand the excitement of sex with a different human being… vs. the same old ball & chain year after year. Hence, it *IS* common for people in their 50s+ start doing OR as they have a long trusting relationship with someone already. They keep the marriage, the finances, the stability and get excitement on the side. But that requires mutual respect and understanding from both sides.

@MAJDEATH : bingo… many people take the easy and fun way out rather than TALK with their partner. It’s a two way street. I was getting stressed out and angry today over some mixup… a few seconds of her massaging me and telling me to be cool was enough to bring my anger down several notches.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

TaDor said:


> @Married but Happy
> 
> a) get a divorce rather than do a messy exit affair. It created drama and makes your kids and family lose respect for you.
> b) finish the divorce rather than the revenge affair, which in the end – makes you NO BETTER than the cheater. It’s a childish move to do… even if *THE THOUGHT* feels good in your skull. For some, it works out – it balances out things.
> c) ongoing PA turn into EA which in turn result and eventually someone is going to end up divorced, kids hate you, the shame that goes with it. Want to get sex on the side, talk with SO about opening the marriage and see how that works out.


*IF* I were going to have an affair in any of these circumstances (*but since I wouldn't*, yeah, I'd agree with your options instead), then:
a) I wouldn't care, and then divorce
b) I still wouldn't care: revenge, then divorce
c) I'd assume that the risk is worthwhile (and statistics indicate that over 80% of affairs are never discovered or revealed)


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I made some adjustments to my post before I read yours.  I came across harsh when it shouldn't have.  

I did know about the "IF" and the "I don't expect to" - but as stated by a doctor in the field of infidelity. Everyone has the capacity to do so. It's a matter of choice and or being aware of your emotions/control. Could I have a revenge affair - considered it as a deranged fantasy to cause severe hurt to the OM... but as the saying goes "Not my circus, not my monkeys" and wrong / caused more drama than it was worth. A lot of toxic people involved and best to get distance from them.

I'd say the 80% of infidelity not caught is usually from MEN who are having ONS / NSA / prostitutes / out of town business sex with others in the industry.
The less emotional the person is (IMO) and if they are sociopaths, they are likely to get away with it.
Its the EA that usually causes the cheater to be caught - when things are suddenly "not right".

I'd say, the time frame (personally from my WW) of the affair starting and that it was just hitting my radar was about 2 weeks, thats when I started snooping, but didn't have enough info (wish I was on TAM by that time, if not before - but the destruction of my marriage was needed to save us in our case due to circumstances), within days after that, fights starts - her anger came out of nowhere. The only time my wife hit me in fights or punched other things (her punches didn't physically hurt). 6 weeks, things were getting bad by the week. gaslighting was being done to disarm me. Was trying to get MC for weeks, started doing research into relationships. After D-Day, it got VERY bad - could have died from heart failure. I've never felt such pain in my life.

I wonder if there is data on the percentages of NSA/PA's end up turning into PA/EA that destroy families?

PS: I just noticed your signature. In general - yeah, I don't think most humans can be faithful to another nor not touch themselves. But I'm rather open minded, or do my best to do so.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ReformedHubby said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > We could learn how a serial cheater operates, how he feels, etc. An expose.
> ...


ReformedHubby - tell your story. Use this thread or start another. It could help both the wayward and the betrayed.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

In my experience they prefer married partners. Both have something to lose if caught and less chance that your lover will want you to leave your spouse for them. Plus their time is limited in which they are free to see you and not expect you to be with them for holidays or other special occasions. It also is much better protection against contracting an STD. They cannot afford to get an STD and give it to their spouse. That is as good as admitting that they are cheating, so they are more careful and selective in their sex partners. 

There is also a competitive element for both men and women in winning over someone else's mate.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I remember one poster who indicated that he targeted married ladies and told them he had a vasectomy (which was false). That way, if they ended up pregnant the hubby would be responsible and not him. He said 5+ yrs married or more was perfect because the newness had worn off and dullsville had set in.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

In my experience on both sides of that coin, it did not matter if the other person was making the offer. Married people were safer as far as STD's go and not likely to want you to leave your spouse for them. They were also very grateful for better sex than they were getting at home and not being asked for more time than they could give, such as a single person would want. Plus you are not in competition with all the other single people that your single lover may also be dating. Single people were more available since they did not have to sneak around to meet you. They could hook up with you when you were away at a convention for example. We did not have a monogamous marriage and I had sex with about the same number of married women as singe. Married women were better since you did not have to date them. It was all about the fun and games, not building a relationship. 

My wife and I only played with both married and single women in threesomes and wife swaps. Our girlfriend of 30 years was single when she moved in with us and then got married 7 years later and split her time between her husband and us. She dated single guys for awhile but got pregnant by one who slipped his condom off during sex. She learned the hard way that sex with married men was safer since they would not try to get you pregnant. In thinking about people we knew who cheated, most were with single people. We wanted to minimize any risk to our marriage so we tended towards other married people in a stable marriage that was open like ours.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I remember one poster who indicated that he targeted married ladies and told them he had a vasectomy (which was false). That way, if they ended up pregnant the hubby would be responsible and not him. He said 5+ yrs married or more was perfect because the newness had worn off and dullsville had set in.


That is not a good gambit. DNA testing will quickly tell if the kid is the husband's or not. If a baby does not look like the father, the father may ask for a DNA test. Especially true if a white woman has a black or Asian baby.  Even something as simple as a blood typing could determine that the kid could not be from the father. Hair color genetic diseases or medical problems, etc. can all point to a different father. This kind of thing is more urban legend than true. 

Then there is the issue of a woman knowing her fertile days and being able to do the math when they find out the approximate timeframe of conception. Like I said, the whole thing about telling women you had a vasectomy is more urban myth. I do not think any guy, or at least a smart guy, would use that ploy as it has too many holes in it. :grin2:


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

I think it depends on whether the cheater is looking to fulfill something they're missing or if they are really looking to move on. If they're just looking for fulfillment I would say they look for someone else who is married and feels the same with the thinking that since the other person is also married, there is no real expectation of the relationship becoming any more than an outlet let's call it.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > I remember one poster who indicated that he targeted married ladies and told them he had a vasectomy (which was false). That way, if they ended up pregnant the hubby would be responsible and not him. He said 5+ yrs married or more was perfect because the newness had worn off and dullsville had set in.
> ...


Why would a husband want a DNA test for his own child? If his W has a baby, under the law he is the father. Why would he even suspect infidelity?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Why would a husband want a DNA test for his own child? If his W has a baby, under the law he is the father. Why would he even suspect infidelity?


Under law he's the father unless he proves the child isn't his very soon after birth, in which case he can challenge it and get his name removed from the birth certificate and not be liable for support. Most of the time the dad's don't suspect infidelity which is why the woman gets away with it (If you find out years later you are still legally responsible for the child). I personally think all children should be DNA tested at the hospital.


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