# Marriage without affection & intimacy



## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

I don't really know how to begin this post. I am looking for some help and guidance. I will try to give you the best description of my life, but it may take a little reading so I apologize in advance for the length. In most of the posts I read about my issues, it is usually the woman that is in my spot so it is hard for me to relate.

I am a 41 year old male. I was raised catholic with very strong italian culture. Most of my family including my parents are from the other side. I have a pretty outgoing personality. I work in entertainment. I have always been very affectionate, or as some people used to put it, lovey dove. There was a girl I dated seriously prior to my wife and we were grotesquely affectionate. We even did the crazy baby talk, like in that one Seinfeld episode that got everyone nauseous. I have been married for just about 15 years. Financially there has never been an issue. We both work. There is rarely an argument about money. I have two awesome girls 11 & 9. They are my entire world. 

My wife and I met one night at a club. I asked her to dance she avoided me, but I pressed on till she gave in. We dated and had some fun just like all the other 20 year olds at the time. We dated for about three years and one spring she ended it between us, because she wanted time alone. She was staying with a new group of friends, they had rented a vacation home and she wanted fun. She did end up dating and even sleeping with someone. She would never discuss it with me and I stopped pressing for her to bring it up. The end of the summer came around and she came calling back to me. I took her back, stating that I won't have her do that to me again. That may have been my first mistake, but what you'll come to learn in this post is that I hate to be alone. We got back together and got engaged about six months later. Married about 14 months after that. Keep in mind, during our dating phase and into our marriage, she was never overly affectionate in any way. She would hold my hand or cuddle up against me for a very limited amount of time. When she held my hand it was very limp. Never have I gotten a hand hold and a caress. You know, like when they hold your hand tight and caress with a thumb or the other hand. Sex was pretty much mediocre at best. Honestly, in over 20 years there was never a night of hot, lose yourself in the other person, kind of passion. My wife has NEVER initiated sex with me. Any sex that was to happen was initiated by me only, in over 20 years. From what I remember, and I don't remember much because I feel like I block a lot of it out, when we were first married we may have had sex 2 to 3 times per week. For a couple of 27 year olds it doesn't seem like a lot. 

In our newlywed years, we didn't do much together if we were alone. I would be in one area of the house maybe watching TV and she would be somewhere else, like the computer playing a game. At times, I would find it more entertaining to go and hang out with friends or cousins than to be with her because she showed no interest. We didn't have much in common. We would go out with other couples and have fun but never had any hobbies or things we did together. We would argue and fight, but usually the reconciliation was from me apologizing, no matter what. We would go days being cold and not talking to each other until I finally said "sorry" or went and hugged her. VERY RARELY, did she ever apologize to me.

About 3 years into our marriage she gets pregnant and we have our first girl. This is when things with us really started to change. Now you need to understand, I love being a father. That is the single greatest thing that has ever happened to me. And one of the worst things that happened to my marriage. For my wife, she instantly changed into the mother role and forgot the wife role. A few months after my daughter was born was when the first big dry spell hit. No sex for over 1 year. Nothing. Not a touch, no oral, not a caress... NOTHING. From that point, sex went from mediocre at best to a downright horror story. After having a very rare moment of sex one time, we had our second daughter two years later. Between us moving to a new house, from one state to another, and the girls keeping us busy, I kind of blocked it all out and focused my attention on whatever else I could find. So time passes and my oldest is 3 and the youngest 1. We now act like a couple in their 50s rather than in their 30s. My wife let herself go and so did I. We ate out a lot, which was very bad for us. We had just her family nearby, and none of mine. They were about an hour or so drive. I hated my job. And hated being home most of the time. It was like my life was wasting away. I became a big hypochondriac. Always thinking there was something wrong with me. Believe me I fear death. But I always thought something was wrong. I was not happy most of the time. We went to counseling for about 6 months. I basically had to force it. Her parents made her go. Absolutely no progress was made. If there was any progress, it was for an extremely short period of time, like a week or two.

About 5 years ago we separated. I moved out into an apartment for about 3 months. It was horrible. I couldn't stand being away from my kids for even one night. You have to understand, I am the kind of dad that goes and checks on them in their rooms 3 to 4 times per night. At this time I am out of the house, I reconnected with so many friends from high school As you would guess, a female friend that I dated for a very short time many moons ago, told me of her issues. We became very close. She was leaving her house and we continued to see each other and talk. We had so much fun together. We would go to movies, talk, etc. My wife hated going to movies (I loved them). Me and this friend did become intimate and I do think I was wrong for it. Not because I had something good at home but because it was a distraction from trying to fix what I needed. I was going to counseling still. On my own and with my wife. I became aware of my friend as a distraction and ended any communication with this person from distracting me. We continued counseling for a very short time. I wanted it to go on but my wife wouldn't. I wanted to do a weekend boot camp for marriages but she wouldn't. At this point I just gave up and accepted my life for what it was. I basically said to myself, if I am willing to die for my kids, I can live my life in a loveless marriage just so that I can be with them every day. When we had our kids and even more so now, our house is like two people living together and raising a couple of kids. The kiss good bye in the morning from my wife is a formality. Never a hug for any reason. Never a make out session. Jeeze!! Do you know how long it has a been since we made out! Kissing during sex never happened. As I said before my wife NEVER initiated sex in any way, shape or form. There was never any lingerie. The most that she would have is a nightie. Thats it. So after the first kid, sex went to once a month to once every 6 weeks at best. That is pretty much where it remains now. Sometimes we even get to once every two months.

During my separation, I basically lost all the support from my family. They were mad that I left. They thought nothing was wrong with my marriage. They would tell me that this is just how things are. That is why I finally gave up and said, it must be. Since that time, my life has been pretty much the same if not worse. Now we lay in bed and she plays games on her iPhone till she it is time to go to sleep. At that point she rolls on her side away from me and is out for the night. Lingerie, nope. Does she initiate sex? Nope. Does she show me affection? Maybe two quick kisses or a hug, twice a year. Sex every 4 to 8 weeks an, it is quick get the chore done 15 minutes. Now I find things to keep myself busy. In the past 5 year, my niece got divorce, my friend is in the process of getting divorced and I can see all the sorrow they go through with when they are without their kids. But does it make sense for me? I have told my wife I want to go to counseling again, but she just blows it off. Even if we do, will it help long term? Or will it have barely any affect. We went through 4 counselors and countless dollars. Nothing to gain from it. My wife does have some non life threatening medical issues, that may be a contributing factor to her not wanting sex. But she never wanted sex before her medical issue and there are medications she can take but doesn't want to. Someone once told me, being in my type of situation is like cooking a meal in a dark kitchen. You may survive, get through it and only get hurt once in a while, but having affection and love is like the lights getting turned on. It makes it so much more enjoyable.

Some additional side notes, my wife is usually not my biggest supporter. If I have an argument with someone or someone has one with me. She usually takes the opposite side or no side at all. We share the housework, laundry, cleaning, etc. But she usually lets things go if she can. 

She is a great mom. Spends a lot of time with them and makes sure they do their homework and go to dance class and have a great education. She cooks real well, when she does. So it isn't all horrible. She is a great per on to have around. But without any love towards me. I feel like I am just here.

My oldest is just like my wife, very little to no affection and my little one is just like me, she is a big mush. This is so hard and I don't know what to do. My family is no help and afraid to mention what I am going through to any friends. I just put on a happy face like nothing is wrong. Anyone have any advice?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Welcome.

Advice? Sure. 

You don't have to live this way, but then you already know that. 

You will continue living this way as long as you base your worth on what others think of you. You only have to put your happiness in your own hands, and not others to change this. You'll have to recognize that before it can happen. 

Start reading Deejo's thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read this too...No More Mr Nice Guy

You will understand

BTW, second generation here.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Honestly, when you separated five years ago, you had the chance to end it and find someone who is more giving and caring but you came back to the same situation and it wasn't any better. To make matters worse you cheated.

You want her to go with you to counseling and she didn't have her heart in it before, so what made you think that she would have a change of heart.

All in all, you knew she was cold and unfeeling when you met, got back together and married her, so friend, you have only one person to blame and that's you.

One other thing. I got divorced back in 92 and this is 2014, 22 years and never remarried. I have kids and believe me, being single and not having an unemotional drone sharing your life is a lot better than living with one. My second wife was very cold and I was better off when she was gone and that was in 92.


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, this is another one of those situations where you tow the party line, "stay for the kids" and teach them that an unaffectionate relationships are normal or divorce, find someone that makes you happy and teach your kids what a loving relationship is really like.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

I always have the same questions for people in your position.

You do realize that the kids will grow up and have their own lives and you're going to have wasted a lot of time and history in a useless relationship?

You also realize that you're teaching your kids that this is what marriage is....affectionate-less, cold, methodological, boring, routine, loveless, trustless, passionless, etc?

Most importantly you do realize that you only get one life. Time is the one commodity that you can't get back. So every moment that you waste or mis-invest with someone who you don't love and doesn't love you back, you miss the opportunity with the person who could be out there for you. You also are slowly killing pieces of yourself.


I understand loving your children. But depending on how a divorce is handled during and after, children can do just fine with two loving parents after it. Children want to see their parents happy.

Also, who cares what your family thinks. Your marriage is your business. I'm always amazed that people let their families interfere in their marital decisions. Its none of their business and your a grown man and need to decide what's best for you and your children.

Clearly what you're doing isn't it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I will post later about this but would ask one question for now and one suggestion...

What culture / nationality is your wife?

And, as a suggestion, instead of playing Ring around the Rosie, would you be open to using serious marital warfare techniques - mind games, of course, not WWF  - to get your message across (perhaps) and get her out of her comfort zone?


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

john117 said:


> I will post later about this but would ask one question for now and one suggestion...
> 
> What culture / nationality is your wife?
> 
> And, as a suggestion, instead of playing Ring around the Rosie, would you be open to using serious marital warfare techniques - mind games, of course, not WWF  - to get your message across (perhaps) and get her out of her comfort zone?


She's american and comes from a good family. Her parents are still together. I don't know what mind games are that you are referring to.

I want to add. It is amazing how much I try to fill our lives and time with things to replace the missing affection. By no means am I perfect. I have my moments too. I just want passion. I want someone to make me feel like she loves me and wants me. 

I understand everyone's comment about about my kids learning how a marriage without love is. But I am very afraid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Your trying to fill your life with things other than the affection of your wife send a message to your wife that you are fine with the way things are. She probably knows you won't leave so she has no consequences to her behavior.

If I were you I'd resume counseling (if you aren't now). Set out the goals you want from therapy with your counselor. They should be (a) how to live with the situation as it is now, (b) how to change your wife for the better or (c) how to move on with your live through divorce. Set a timeline with your therapist as to when you want to see progress on whichever option you choose and execute your plan.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I don't understand how you married and commited to a person that was sketchy and didn't provide you with affection and intimacy that you require.

All are mistakes on YOUR part, not your wife's. It's YOUR responsibility to make sure that the partner is a good match for YOU.

It's your choice if you want to prolong this, but don't assume she will ever change.

I would end it, but that's just me.

DO NOT do it "for the kids", they are learning from you and your wife and what it is today is THEIR definition of "marriage". READ: Staying together is probably doing more damage than good.

I have a feeling you already discussed these things with your wife, but I would suggest you make up your mind if this is a deal breaker and communicate your feelings to her. If she loves you and cares about you, she SHOULD do whatever it takes to make you happy.

Think of it as a test of your love.....


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Staying in an empty, unfulfilling marriage "for the kids" is a bad idea. Trust me, I did it for 20 years. I finally got out. It was the best thing I ever did -- for me, for my ex, but ESPECIALLY for my kids. Everyone is worlds happier now.

I am sad for all the wasted years for everyone.

You can read my story in my signature line below. While our issues aren't exactly the same, the bottom line is my ex and I were just roommates and my kids paid a hefty price for watching two unhappy, affection-less adults as their model for marriage.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

neglectedhus said:


> But I am very afraid.


This is the centerpiece of your problem, its not her. 

Nothing will change until you do. 

Change is hard to make, after a lifetime of learned behaviors that feel comfortable.

It can be done. It can be better. You'll have to leave your comfort zone and destabilize your relationships. No pain, no gain. 

Are you willing to try?


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> This is the centerpiece of your problem, its not her.
> 
> Nothing will change until you do.
> 
> ...


When I say I am afraid. I am afraid of a different life than what I have now. I have tried change. She has said straight out in counseling sessions that she is not and will not be affectionate. Maybe I am just a safe bet for her? Maybe there is someone out there that she can "love" and will want to be affectionate with. Maybe it is me and I just don't and never have done it for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

neglectedhus said:


> When I say I am afraid. I am afraid of a different life than what I have now.


Why would you be afraid of a BETTER life than what you have now?

I think the odds are greatly in favor of you making a better life, because you have experience to use to make better chioices, and the motivation of negative experience to help ensure you are careful about future choices of this magnitude.

I too was afraid that things would change, and for the worse. It's a false fear. So many things improved for the better immediately after separating, that I only wish I'd done it many years sooner. Fear is not your friend - hope and opportunity are.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

neglectedhus said:


> When I say I am afraid. I am afraid of a different life than what I have now.


That is the fear I speak off...

Many of us will live in unsatisfactory situations, no matter how bad they are, because we have learned how to be comfortable enough to survive in them. That fear of a different life enslaves us. 

You complain about her a lot. Yet this is not about her, its about you. She wants things the way they are, you don't. Why would you live the way someone else demands?

Did you have time to read any of the links?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

neglectedhus said:


> She has said straight out in counseling sessions that she is not and will not be affectionate.


Game over. Why in the world would you want to try counseling again? You've already been four times, spent countless thousands of dollars, and she has stated clearly that she *"is not and WILL NOT be affectionate."* Don't spin your wheels any longer.

It's time to make a decision. Sh*t or get off the proverbial pot.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

neglectedhus said:


> When I say I am afraid. I am afraid of a different life than what I have now. I have tried change. She has said straight out in counseling sessions that she is not and will not be affectionate. Maybe I am just a safe bet for her? Maybe there is someone out there that she can "love" and will want to be affectionate with. Maybe it is me and I just don't and never have done it for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My wife and I have different levels of affection too. I'm like you, maybe it's the Italian. We wear our hearts on our sleeves. 

You know what? YOU ARE BROKE. A previous poster said to go read No More Mr Nice Guy. I can't reiterate it enough. Read it. 

Until you get past being paralyzed by your fears you'll change nothing. Fear is good. But you need to live in it. Embrace it. 

I was once where you are. I told my wife "this is my need and you can meet it, or someone else will." She's a lot better. But I worked on myself first. 

Your wife is broken too. When she denies intimacy, she's denying 2 people. You and HER. 

Go fix yourself. My prescription: lift some weights. Get a REAL hobby independent of your wife and kids. Go away for a weekend of just you. Read That book. Go hangout with GUY friends. Do things for just you. 

Once you start to fix yourself, you will have the leverage to demand change from your wife. I warn you, you may find she's not worth it. She's an OK mom. If she was great she'd show her daughters what a loving wife was like.


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Game over. Why in the world would you want to try counseling again? You've already been four times, spent countless thousands of dollars, and she has stated clearly that she *"is not and WILL NOT be affectionate."* Don't spin your wheels any longer.
> 
> It's time to make a decision. Sh*t or get off the proverbial pot.


The ironic part is that we can get along well. We are friendly. We have a good flow going for the care of the house and kids, etc. If there was a loving affection, some initiation of intimacy on her part things would be very different. But like I said, it's like living with a roommate sharing expenses and splitting up childcare duties. Very little in common. We don't share the same interests/hobbies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

neglectedhus said:


> The ironic part is that we can get along well. We are friendly. We have a good flow going for the care of the house and kids, etc. If there was a loving affection, some initiation of intimacy on her part things would be very different. But like I said, it's like living with a roommate sharing expenses and splitting up childcare duties. Very little in common. We don't share the same interests/hobbies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NH, there's really no irony here at all. You can "get along well" with lots of people. You can "get along well" with a pet, for that matter. If you are content with just getting along with your wife without intimacy, well then, there you have it.

You have stated that you are NOT content with this situation.

So do something about it.


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## TruthHunter (Jul 15, 2014)

Expect no changes from her NH, and proceed accordingly. My wife is very similar. I have given up hope that she will ever change. I no longer fear life with out her - rather, I dream about life without her. What I do fear though, is not being able to see my kids every day. I fear if I were to divorce her, that she would get primary custody, since that is what usually happens. I know I am a much better parent than her, and I fear that my kids would grow up in the dysfunctional atmosphere that my W is accustomed to. I feel like I am sacrificing my own happiness so that my kids can have a decent upbringing. There is no way I would stay with my W beyond the time when my youngest turns 18, but that is more than a decade away. It's sad and lonely to live without affection, and no end in sight. But the potential guilt I would feel if I left, and my kids grew up trashy because of living primarily with her - that outweighs the potential joy I might feel if I were rid of my affectionless marriage. It saddens me to think of improving my own life at the expense of diminishing the lives of my children. I'm not the typical "nice guy" but I'm not selfish either. I'm just getting by, still trying to figure out what to do.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

neglectedhus said:


> She's american and comes from a good family. Her parents are still together. I don't know what mind games are that you are referring to.



Behavior such as described would be par for the course in some cultures not exactly known for good relationships between genders.

Also such behavior as exhibited may present in case of past issues such as CSA or other traumatic experiences of a similar intimate nature. 

Now, mind games...

I'm sure by now you have been referred to the 180 and assorted alphabet soup methods of reclaiming the hill, so to speak. Those work in milder cases but I have my reservations as to their efficacy in higher duty issues. So, take what is in a typical 180 and stratify it's behaviors to more than called for. Instead of being visibly happy and cool and so on, make some waves. A few arguments unrelated to the issue at hand. Be firm and show that you do not appreciate this behavior. Let it be known to people in her inner circle.

In other words, make a bit of a mess out of it. Stay focused on your kids and investigate exit strategies. And so on.

A 180 leaves her wondering, heavier duty 180 makes her convinced. Focus on yourself also. No point being afraid. 

OTHER People will not likely change if you change; they will need to first see the light. The only way to see the light is if they have MUCH to lose, be it a cozy life, peace of mind...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

When she promised to "forsake all others", the implication was that she would not forsake you. She has done that.

Explain that to her. Tell her you promised monogamy but not celibacy.


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## mpgunner (Jul 15, 2014)

If there isn't much desire, laughter, fun, desire (again) to be together then that is not good. 

After some years if you are going in the right direction your "roots" are getting all tangled up which is a good thing.


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks to all for your input. You make me feel like I am not the only one going through all this. I understand what Truthhunter means when he says he dreams about the day he Wil be free. It is sad but I do too.

She is not dysfunctional at home or to the kids. She does slack in some areas and her head is not always there. But she is a great mom, she is a great daughter. She is an okay wife. And maybe all of this is me. After years of trying to be affectionate, I finally gave up a few years ago. Maybe she isn't attracted to me. Maybe she doesn't love me like that. Maybe I was just the smart "business" choice for a husband.


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

Is this what happens as people age in their marriage? I never see my siblings affectionate towards eachother. Am I expecting too much? Am I just being unreasonable to want someone to desire me? Do all marriages lose luster?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

neglectedhus said:


> Is this what happens as people age in their marriage? I never see my siblings affectionate towards eachother. Am I expecting too much? Am I just being unreasonable to want someone to desire me? Do all marriages lose luster?


NO!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

neglectedhus said:


> After years of trying to be affectionate, I finally gave up a few years ago. Maybe she isn't attracted to me. Maybe she doesn't love me like that. Maybe I was just the smart "business" choice for a husband.


Thing is we rarely know what started the downward spiral. Perhaps you made an off-remark that offended her. Maybe she did the same to you and you started pulling away, which she took as rejection.

If you want it to work, you need to learn from the past BUT leave it behind. Start today as Day 1 and move forward, that is if you want to move forward with her.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TruthHunter said:


> Expect no changes from her NH, and proceed accordingly. My wife is very similar. I have given up hope that she will ever change. I no longer fear life with out her - rather, I dream about life without her. What I do fear though, is not being able to see my kids every day. I fear if I were to divorce her, that she would get primary custody, since that is what usually happens. I know I am a much better parent than her, and I fear that my kids would grow up in the dysfunctional atmosphere that my W is accustomed to. I feel like I am sacrificing my own happiness so that my kids can have a decent upbringing. There is no way I would stay with my W beyond the time when my youngest turns 18, but that is more than a decade away. It's sad and lonely to live without affection, and no end in sight. But the potential guilt I would feel if I left, and my kids grew up trashy because of living primarily with her - that outweighs the potential joy I might feel if I were rid of my affectionless marriage. It saddens me to think of improving my own life at the expense of diminishing the lives of my children. I'm not the typical "nice guy" but I'm not selfish either. I'm just getting by, still trying to figure out what to do.


Who says you deserve to be happy? And what about the lesson you are teaching your kids about relationships.


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## TruthHunter (Jul 15, 2014)

treyvion said:


> Who says you deserve to be happy? And what about the lesson you are teaching your kids about relationships.


I give my kids a lot of advice and lessons on life in general (age appropriate subject matter, of course) including relationships of various sorts and treating people respectfully. I feel it is one of my greatest duties in life to actively prepare them for their own futures and to be independent. However, they are undoubtedly witnessing the type of marital relationship that I would certainly not wish for them to have one day. And it is not at all lost on me that my marriage with their mother could be conditioning them to end up in a similar type of marriage. But if I were to divorce their mother, and on a judge's whim, end up only spending half as much time with them (or worse yet, every other weekend) for the rest of their childhood, then I will lose much of the opportunities I have now to teach them and guide them in these other aspects of life. It is quite a dilemma for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

TruthHunter said:


> I give my kids a lot of advice and lessons on life in general (age appropriate subject matter, of course) including relationships of various sorts and treating people respectfully. I feel it is one of my greatest duties in life to actively prepare them for their own futures and to be independent. However, they are undoubtedly witnessing the type of marital relationship that I would certainly not wish for them to have one day. And it is not at all lost on me that my marriage with their mother could be conditioning them to end up in a similar type of marriage. But if I were to divorce their mother, and on a judge's whim, end up only spending half as much time with them (or worse yet, every other weekend) for the rest of their childhood, then I will lose much of the opportunities I have now to teach them and guide them in these other aspects of life. It is quite a dilemma for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with you. I try to do the same for my kids too. I find myself secluding myself in the house and not spending time with them. I go to my man cave and watch tv. My kids are doing their thing or with their mom. Time we could all be seconding together.

Last night I had my friends over. We talked about my dilemma in detail and one person asked me what am I willing to accept? What am I willing to compromise on? To what level does she have to bring it for me to be happy? My question is, if it is not genuine, then it is worse than not showing any affection at all. I don't want robotic chores, I want genuine passion and affection beachside of love and attraction. Maybe it's me? I brought this up too and since she is not overly affectionate toward the kids then maybe it wouldn't matter is it me or anyone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

TruthHunter said:


> I give my kids a lot of advice and lessons on life in general (age appropriate subject matter, of course) including relationships of various sorts and treating people respectfully. I feel it is one of my greatest duties in life to actively prepare them for their own futures and to be independent. However, they are undoubtedly witnessing the type of marital relationship that I would certainly not wish for them to have one day. And it is not at all lost on me that my marriage with their mother could be conditioning them to end up in a similar type of marriage. But if I were to divorce their mother, and on a judge's whim, end up only spending half as much time with them (or worse yet, every other weekend) for the rest of their childhood, then I will lose much of the opportunities I have now to teach them and guide them in these other aspects of life. It is quite a dilemma for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Seriously bro. Your advice is toxic. Your afraid so you stay in the status quo! 

Have you talked to a lawyer? Is there precedent that your state favors unequal time? This is the advise of someone so afraid of the status quo he's willing to accept crap for the next 10 years!?! 

I have 3 kids. I live in a permanent alimony state. I made it clear to my wife I will not tolerate sexless and affection-less marriage. You know what? She started to meet my demands. I made it clear to her that I will walk away if it doesn't change. 

Your marriage should be paramount. Period. Be true to your purpose. Put yourself first, then your wife, then your kids. Any other way wreaks havoc. 

NH, Don't listen to this guys crap. He's living in his fears instead of getting past them.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

NH,

Learn to live an AUTHENTIC life. If it's not right, get out. Listen to your friends.

Look at your daughters. Is THIS the kind of marriage you want to model for them?

NO! 

I posted before, please read my thread (in my signature below) -- see if it resonates.

You didn't comment on my thread, so I'm assuming you did not read?

You deserve a happier, more fulfilling marriage. Your wife is a deadbeat wife. You might say she's a "great mom" but great moms demonstrate great marriages to their kids.

She is NOT doing this, remotely, in any way, shape, or form.

Your daughters will be destined to have the same kind of lackluster, unfulfilled marriages.

Is THIS what you want for THEM?!?!


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> NH, Don't listen to this guys crap. He's living in his fears instead of getting past them.


UEM I understand what you are saying but I am sort of in the same state as him. As I said I kiss my kids 3 times a night. I need someone to talk to my wife and make her realize she made a business choice to stay with me and that she is not really in love with me. She needs to come to that realization but she is unwilling to speak to a counselor.


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks, Happy As A Clam, I read your post. I agree the situation is somewhat similar. But also somewhat different. For one I am a male (I may not have sounded like it LOL) And I don't think my wife views me as a father figure, but more like a good guy to have around. He makes good money, doesnt drink heavy, no drugs, and is very handy and keeps the house running well. I do all those things but I still can't get the love and affection of my wife. I have decided I am going to start writing a journal and seeing a counselor on my own. I need the best one in my area. Does anyone know a site that may tell me where to find a good marriage counselor?


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## TruthHunter (Jul 15, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> Seriously bro. Your advice is toxic. Your afraid so you stay in the status quo!
> 
> Have you talked to a lawyer? Is there precedent that your state favors unequal time? This is the advise of someone so afraid of the status quo he's willing to accept crap for the next 10 years!?!
> 
> ...


Huh? Your reading comprehension and presumptuous responses are toxic, bro. I didn't advise him one way or the other, except for my first post where I suggested that he proceed based on the assumption that his wife most likely will not change (paraphrase). Everything else was just sympathizing and sharing my own DILEMMA, meaning I am still sorting through it and haven't yet come to a conclusion for my own situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

TruthHunter said:


> Huh? Your reading comprehension and presumptuous responses are toxic, bro. I didn't advise him one way or the other, except for my first post where I suggested that he proceed based on the assumption that his wife most likely will not change (paraphrase). Everything else was just sympathizing and sharing my own DILEMMA, meaning I am still sorting through it and haven't yet come to a conclusion for my own situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yep. Stand by my point. You advise him based on your own shîtty life choices. You tell him a story about your own shîtty life. You may have not told him what to do, but you sure as hëll supported him. 

You might as well have said "yeah man. Life sucks. Nothing will change." 

Man up. Change your own life. I read your post, and it makes me angry.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

neglectedhus said:


> UEM I understand what you are saying but I am sort of in the same state as him. As I said I kiss my kids 3 times a night. I need someone to talk to my wife and make her realize she made a business choice to stay with me and that she is not really in love with me. She needs to come to that realization but she is unwilling to speak to a counselor.



Your afraid. Your afraid to seek the life you want. You sit there stewing in resentment and hoping things will change. You leave and have an affair, and then come back and wonder why your wife is distant sexually and emotionally. Maybe she doesn't trust you?!? 

This is a very telling statement, " I need someone to talk to my wife and make her realize she made a business choice to stay with me and that she is not really in love with me"

That reeks of nice guy crap. It's underhanded and manipulative. Your a man. Tell her your needs. Don't have someone else do them for you. Live the life you want!

Everything in life is there for you. You just have to take it.


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## neglectedhus (Jul 14, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> This is a very telling statement, " I need someone to talk to my wife and make her realize she made a business choice to stay with me and that she is not really in love with me"
> 
> That reeks of nice guy crap. It's underhanded and manipulative. Your a man. Tell her your needs. Don't have someone else do them for you. Live the life you want!
> 
> Everything in life is there for you. You just have to take it.


Let me correct myself. I do not need someone to TELL my wife. I need someone, a professional to HELP her understand what SHE WANTS in life. Maybe it is me, maybe it isn't me. I need help in that area. Maybe there is something more serious holding her back, maybe IT IS ME? Maybe I am just an ******* and want more than what everyone has. I don't know. All I know is I have been with her for 20 years and things weren't great in the beginning and they are worse now. Yes I am an idiot for not saying something or ending it 20 years ago, I have finally woken up. Now we need a real good look into each of us. And I start with me. I start with deep diving into me with a professional by my side. Maybe I am the problem and I don't know what I want or I want too much.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

neglectedhus said:


> Let me correct myself. I do not need someone to TELL my wife. I need someone, a professional to HELP her understand what SHE WANTS in life. Maybe it is me, maybe it isn't me. I need help in that area. Maybe there is something more serious holding her back, maybe IT IS ME? Maybe I am just an ******* and want more than what everyone has. I don't know. All I know is I have been with her for 20 years and things weren't great in the beginning and they are worse now. Yes I am an idiot for not saying something or ending it 20 years ago, I have finally woken up. Now we need a real good look into each of us. And I start with me. I start with deep diving into me with a professional by my side. Maybe I am the problem and I don't know what I want or I want too much.



You can't fix her. You can't get her to fix herself. 

The best you can do, is fix yourself and your own demons. A lot of times this alone will make a spouse fix their own demons. Maybe you realize there's a better woman out there, or maybe your woman becomes one. Either way that path starts with you.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

We are responsible for our own behaviors. We own our problems, they belong to no one else. She is responsible for the way she is and for the life she chose, just as you are for yours. You are not responsible for her happiness, that's her responsibility, as your happiness is up to you, not others. 

I agree, you should look for help.You have quite a bit to learn about this. Find an IC, do some research, interview a few. 

One more thing. You're not that fearful to read the links I gave you in my first post are you? They won't hurt, you might even find an IC that uses NMMNG and Hold on to your NUTs...


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## Rooster2014 (Aug 23, 2014)

neglectedhus said:


> I don't really know how to begin this post. I am looking for some help and guidance. I will try to give you the best description of my life, but it may take a little reading so I apologize in advance for the length. In most of the posts I read about my issues, it is usually the woman that is in my spot so it is hard for me to relate.
> 
> I am a 41 year old male. I was raised catholic with very strong italian culture. Most of my family including my parents are from the other side. I have a pretty outgoing personality. I work in entertainment. I have always been very affectionate, or as some people used to put it, lovey dove. There was a girl I dated seriously prior to my wife and we were grotesquely affectionate. We even did the crazy baby talk, like in that one Seinfeld episode that got everyone nauseous. I have been married for just about 15 years. Financially there has never been an issue. We both work. There is rarely an argument about money. I have two awesome girls 11 & 9. They are my entire world.
> 
> ...


Your marriage is over. You owe it to yourself to be happy. Being in that situation is not helping you kids. Divorce is painful. However it's never to old to start over. Jmo


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