# Did I emasculate him?? Corporate paid trip invitation



## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Hi good men and women of TAM;

We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
I invited boyfriend to tag along for a night away...4 hours drive one way...we could spend Friday night together (hotel corporate paid, meals split) and return Saturday or Sunday. I told him to consider the trip an early birthday present. It's a beautiful beach destination. He was so excited but declined at the last moment. He's been distant since then.
Did I emasculate him?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


If you did, he's a wimp. I would love to have my lady treat me to a trip like that!


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> *We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend.* He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. *We're both smitten.*
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


No, not an emasculating scenario. Something else is going on.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> No, not an emasculating scenario. Something else is going on.


He's not that into me?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> If you did, he's a wimp. I would love to have my lady treat me to a trip like that!


My thoughts exactly!!!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Maybe because the birthday “gift” is coming from your job and not you? Maybe I’m reaching but I don’t know what else would have turned him off? It might have been the “consider it an earlier birthday gift” comment 🤷‍♂️


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> No, not an emasculating scenario. Something else is going on.


Agree



Sierralyn20 said:


> He's not that into me?


I may think on other alternatives and not on that one.
But of course are mere speculations.

Personally and in his shoes I would be glad and proud about your invitation.
Mainly cos you are sharing with him another part of your life and making him visible as your choosed man.

May be in his past relationships he had a not so good experience with a gf´s work trips?
Just my imagination ...


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's not that into me?


It doesn’t feel like it’s about you. Maybe a party he was invited too, or some other thing he wants to do?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Does he have any kind of social anxiety? Is he an extreme homebody who mainly likes to stay home and play video games or something like that?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

There is nothing emasculating about what you’ve written.
Im curious, what made you think that this might have been the problem?


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

It's just 5 month. You aren't in dry shoes yet. The first trip usually ends in the couple seperating. On the otherside, if a couple survives the first trip it could be a good sign.
But he may think it is too early after 5 month. But that again might be a sign he isn't sure he wants to invest long term into your relationship.

But it could be other reasons. You have to ask him not the internet.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He was excited about the trip but then declined at the last moment. Could be any number of things but, no, I don’t think you emasculated him.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I don't understand how that could possibly be emasculating... Something seems to be up, but I can't imagine it's the trip.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If the room is corporale paid, and you told him you'd split the costs of the meals, what exactly is the gift part you are giving him? 

Sounds like your employer is paying for the room and he will be paying for his meals. 

Birthday gift???????


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Livvie said:


> If the room is corporale paid, and you told him you'd split the costs of the meals, what exactly is the gift part you are giving him?
> 
> Sounds like your employer is paying for the room and he will be paying for his meals.
> 
> Birthday gift???????


Exactly what I thought. Cheapskate…


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

No, you didn't emasculate him.

Can you clarify what you mean by meals split? Does that mean you and he split the cost, or you split the cost with your employer? I guess if he's expected to split the meals its not really an early birthday present. 

Why he doesn't just tell you what's up though, I have no idea.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

If he can be emasculated by that then you don't want him. 

Somethings up, my spider sense it tingling. Probably not good.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


Is this trip to some place really special where there are great things to see and do?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


I’m not sure what exactly you mean by a “present”. Your employer is paying for the hotel and driving expenses and you say that you will split the cost of your meals.
What exactly are *you* paying for?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's not that into me?


It is not the trip itself...

There is something else going on.

YOU FEEL you somehow emasculated him.
That is a good insight into yourself.

Are you the take-charge type, having a _Type A_ personality?

Do you tend to dominate others, even your intimate friends and lovers?

If so, then yes, you may scare off some men.
Scare off, turn off, the same outcome.

...................................................................

Or, might he have heard something about you, very recently?

Hmm?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Have you taken other boyfriends on this same trip?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Did I emasculate him?


No,


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> Maybe because the birthday “gift” is coming from your job and not you? Maybe I’m reaching but I don’t know what else would have turned him off? It might have been the “consider it an earlier birthday gift” comment 🤷‍♂️


There has been numerous home cooked meals, s


SunCMars said:


> Have you taken other boyfriends on this same trip?


Never..First trip with a boyfriend. He knows this.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Does he have any kind of social anxiety? Is he an extreme homebody who mainly likes to stay home and play video games or something like that?


He's a homebody, yes.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> It is not the trip itself...
> 
> There is something else going on.
> 
> ...



I am a take charge type of person, yes. He told me he loved this about me at the beginning.

Nope, there's nothing he's heard about me that I know of.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Is this trip to some place really special where there are great things to see and do?


Oh yes. Tons to do. Fun, beachy place.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

sokillme said:


> If he can be emasculated by that then you don't want him.
> 
> Somethings up, my spider sense it tingling. Probably not good.


My thoughts exactly. He's pulling away.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It doesn’t feel like it’s about you. Maybe a party he was invited too, or some other thing he wants to do?


Not quite. His life is quite boring (no pun intended). He told me no one ever does anything fun with him.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He was so excited but declined at the last moment. He's been distant since then.


This is one of my weird therapist suggestions, but ... can you ask him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Oh yes. Tons to do. Fun, beachy place.


In that case, I agree that it could be a great birthday present. While your job might fund part of it and you suggested that the two of you pay your own way for the rest, this is an opportunity for the two of you to do something that you two would not be able to do otherwise. The gift is the opportunity and the fun you two would have.

How do you two handle the costs on your dates? Do each of you always pay for your own dinner, etc.?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Not quite. His life is quite boring (no pun intended). He told me no one ever does anything fun with him.


Does he have female orbiters?
Its starting to sound more and more like he made “plans” for when you’re away.
Plans that you wouldn’t approve of.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


No, not a regular guy anyway.

Unless you were buying out of your pocket something specific all for his birthday during the trip it opportunistic on your part to call it a birthday gift.

If you were covering his expenses out of your pocket that weren't your company paid for, as his birthday gift that would work.

Otherwise it would have been just a potential trip, to spend time together. He'd do his own thing during day on his dime, meet at night for dinner, lovin'.

Were you out of your pocket covering his expenses? That's a Birthday gift.

Unless you invited him to business dinner functions he'd be free to hang out at tiki bars on his dime, good.

Details?

Otherwise he may have wanted to hang out locally while your out of town, catch up on other stuff.

Most guys wouldn't feel emasculated though. That's a stretch at least to me.

Eta: syntax correction.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Could it be that a freebie from your employers is not his idea of a birthday gift from you to him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Sierralyn20 

Something else for you to consider. For a healthy relationship with this guy to develop, one of the most important things is that the two of you have to be able to discuss things and come to resolution that works for both of you.

The issue here that I see is that you have no clue why he's pulling away right now. And he has not told you what the problem is. So, you are now going off the deep end trying to figure out what you did wrong. This is completely unacceptable in a relationship. If he can't just come out and tell you what's on his mind, then he's not worth your time. What he's doing by acting odd and not talking to you about whatever the issue is a very passive aggressive action.

The last thing you want is a relationship with a passive aggressive guy who won't even tell you what's going on in his head.

The purpose of dating is to find out if a person is a good match for marriage or a long-term relationship. I don't think this guy is. When you date and the guy acts badly, the best thing you can do is to end the relationship. Look what you are going through. It is really worth it?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I do want to offer this.....if it was a four one way trip, for just one night, as a bf only, I'd not go just because it would kill 8 hours of my weekend and a Friday night.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Not quite. His life is quite boring (no pun intended). He told me no one ever does anything fun with him.


Maybe he's picked up on your negative attitude towards him.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The location is only 4 hours away. Work is paying for the room. i still don't see how that's a "birthday present" to him.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Not quite. His life is quite boring (no pun intended). He told me no one ever does anything fun with him.


At the risk of repeating my other post, traveling 4 hrs on Friday evening, staying one night, driving 4 hrs back after normal check out time, isn't hardly worth packing for. 

For a boyfriend. 

It is possible he just wanted a more leisurely Friday night and weekend. It's possible he met someone else. 

As bf, gf, it may just be time to part as friends.

This sounds like a cynical view but it's based on reality. 

How old are you two?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Loves Coffee said:



Maybe he's picked up on your negative attitude towards him.

Click to expand...

*She has a "negative attitude toward him" for simply *REPEATING* to a message board what he's told her? 🙄 

Something tells me a better offer has come up. Whether that's in the form of a family invitation or another female is anyone's guess.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> She has a "negative attitude toward him" for simply *REPEATING* to a message board what he's told her? 🙄
> 
> Something tells me a better offer has come up. Whether that's in the form of a family invitation or another female is anyone's guess.


Re-read the thread. He told me no one ever does anything fun with him. (His quote) His life is quite boring. He's a homebody (her statements).


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

I don't know, I'm just picking up on red lights here. A corporate paid trip that is a birthday gift, his declining the trip is a mark against his masculinity (?), and then calling him a homebody? I think he dodged a bullet.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> There is nothing emasculating about what you’ve written.
> Im curious, what made you think that this might have been the problem?


We take turns paying when we go out for dates. I think he only paid for the first two, and I offered to pay thereafter. 
He was totally fine with this, but told me I was intimidating.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> This is one of my weird therapist suggestions, but ... can you ask him?


This is funny.

To ask, will be painful, and losing face is never funny!

She can ask us, internet strangers for that proverbial pittance sum, the plug nickel.

............................................................

I read our OP's other Threads.
She is rather particular (which is fine) and life is not cooperating.

Life sends her older men. 
They do not seem to work out.
Older men have less tolerance for any sort of drama.
Many lack energy!

Road trips appeal more to 'mostly' young men, unless it is a very new relationship.
Four hours of travel, plus the destinations, stop over time, requires that both passengers be very comfortable with each other, 

You claim he is boring. 
That tells us a lot. As mentioned, he is a homebody.
Why are you dating someone whom you find boring?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Loves Coffee said:


> Re-read the thread. He told me no one ever does anything fun with him. (His quote) His life is quite boring. He's a homebody (her statements).


Those were all his statements too, BTW. I just repeated them on here.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> It is not the trip itself...
> 
> There is something else going on.
> 
> ...


He told me I was intimidating ... after the first date, he looked me up on LinkedIn, and said that.
He said he liked it.
And he wondered aloud if my ex husband (serial cheater and physical abuser) was perhaps intimidated too??


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> This is funny.
> 
> To ask, will be painful, and losing face is never funny!
> 
> ...





Andy1001 said:


> I’m not sure what exactly you mean by a “present”. Your employer is paying for the hotel and driving expenses and you say that you will split the cost of your meals.
> What exactly are *you* paying for?


The pleasure of my company?😁


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> *but told me I was intimidating.
> [*/QUOTE]
> Bingo...
> As I mentioned, in an earlier post.
> ...


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> In that case, I agree that it could be a great birthday present. While your job might fund part of it and you suggested that the two of you pay your own way for the rest, this is an opportunity for the two of you to do something that you two would not be able to do otherwise. The gift is the opportunity and the fun you two would have.
> 
> How do you two handle the costs on your dates? Do each of you always pay for your own dinner, etc.?


He was so excited about the idea at first, then a day later he declined. Then started to pull away for some reason.
We both pay on dates; whoever does the asking out pays, etc.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Those were all his statements too, BTW. I just repeated them on here.


Sorry, are you saying he called himself a homebody? I've never heard anyone do this.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> @Sierralyn20
> 
> Something else for you to consider. For a healthy relationship with this guy to develop, one of the most important things is that the two of you have to be able to discuss things and come to resolution that works for both of you.
> 
> ...


Totally, thanks for bringing this up. 
We have loads of fun together, but he does seem to have passive aggressive tendencies. 
I picked up on this earlier on. I raised it, tried to create a safe space for him to open up, etc. At a certain age what you see is what you get I suppose.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Loves Coffee said:


> Sorry, are you saying he called himself a homebody? I've never heard anyone do this.


He did...


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I do want to offer this.....if it was a four one way trip, for just one night, as a bf only, I'd not go just because it would kill 8 hours of my weekend and a Friday night.


This makes sense.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Oh yes. Tons to do. Fun, beachy place.


But not in one night, after a four hour trip there, checkout 11:00am, fours drive you know is coming.....so no 2:00am parties.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But not in one night, after a four hour trip there, checkout 11:00am, fours drive you know is coming.....so no 2:00am parties.


I’m on the other side of this one. I would definitely be interested if my woman wanted me to go with her, even given some logistic challenges. I take my wife with me on business trips and she has a great time going on guided tours and shopping while I slave away in the office.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Instead of guessing I’d just ask him why he bailed.

FWIW my wife recently said no to a business class flight to a decent hotel in Central London to accompany me on a work trip where she could see all the touristy stuff and do whatever. She loves travel and hasn’t explored London.

She had too much work so she said no so she could stay home and concentrate.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m on the other side of this one. I would definitely be interested if my woman wanted me to go with her, even given some logistic challenges. I take my wife with me on business trips and she has a great time going on guided tours and shopping while I slave away in the office.


I too get that. Time to time years ago when I traveled a heck if a lot, I'd take the W with me, she'd hang out at pool, spa day, beach, shop....over at least a two night three trip.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Do you make more money than him? If he told you that you’re “intimidating” maybe let this guy go. He’s pulling away, being vague, and I think if a guy wants to spend time with you, a business trip won’t be a deterrent. Not saying he’s right or wrong in his reaction, but he may not be right _for you._


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> The pleasure of my company?😁


Yuck. To the sentiment.

Your employer is paying for the room, he'll be paying for his own meals, so the "birthday present" you are telling him this is, is the pleasure of your company? Yuck.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

What a giant pain in the ass of a birthday present....driving a total of 8 hours for a one night stay? I wouldn't care if it was the Waldorf Astoria in New York, all I'd be thinking of is the drive, but to be fair I would tell you thanks but no thanks.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Benbutton said:


> What a giant pain in the ass of a birthday present....driving a total of 8 hours for a one night stay? I wouldn't care if it was the Waldorf Astoria in New York, all I'd be thinking of is the drive, but to be fair I would tell you thanks but no thanks.


Oh, wait a minute. This is a great point. lol I hadn't thought about the drive there. 

@Sierralyn20 - he may be backing away because he feels that you are trying to ''get away'' cheap by inviting him to this business trip, and there isn't much thought or effort into it, on your part. That does shed a different light on things - if you put yourself in his shoes, would you feel excited about celebrating your birthday in this way? I don't think it's emasculating, it's perhaps insulting.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> Oh, wait a minute. This is a great point. lol I hadn't thought about the drive there.
> 
> @Sierralyn20 - he may be backing away because he feels that you are trying to ''get away'' cheap by inviting him to this business trip, and there isn't much thought or effort into it, on your part. That does shed a different light on things - if you put yourself in his shoes, would you feel excited about celebrating your birthday in this way? I don't think it's emasculating, it's perhaps insulting.


Ta da! We have a winner!


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ta da! We have a winner!


Not only to mention, would he be the "Chauffeur" in the sense he would be doing all the driving, even if it is not his vehicle?
Sounds like "Lotsa fun."


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Not quite. His life is quite boring (no pun intended). He told me no one ever does anything fun with him.


He's a homebody who doesn't like to go do things. I would say you're not a match just based on that.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Sierralyn20 said:


> The pleasure of my company?😁


Well, apparently that is not enough of a "birthday present" for him.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Going against the grain here:

Riding or driving 4 hours for an overnight with someone I'm in a relationship with doesn't sound bad to me.

Maybe I'm easy to please but I don't need presents and big celebrations or anything like that. Just let me be with someone I care about and I'm happy. I'm a 'homebody' and don't want fanfare or big efforts for me so an overnight getaway sounds perfect.

"Pleasure of my company" would be fine with me too. Unless that comment was coming from an entitled mouth. But OP's demeanor in the thread doesn't seem like that to me.

Different strokes I guess.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Going against the grain here:
> 
> Riding or driving 4 hours for an overnight with someone I'm in a relationship with doesn't sound bad to me.
> 
> ...


Wife or kids, yes.
Gf, not fiance or anything, no.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> The pleasure of my company?😁


How old are the two of you?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Well, apparently that is not enough of a "birthday present" for him.


Exactly.
How is this a "Birthday Present?"
It is one thing to invite BF on a business trip to a desirable venue, but it is quite another to call it a gift.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

If he had genuinely burning desire for you, he'd go. He doesn't. Also, stop calling it a "gift" because all you are doing is regifting something that was given to you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he doesn’t see the two of you as exclusive?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

KindBuddha said:


> As a precaution, if your boyfriend does attend the trip, and stays in the room with you, you should discuss with your employer and insist that you reimburse your employer for half the value of the room you will be staying in. Do not assume it will just be O.K. unless you have written policy from your employer on this issue.


I don't get that.
For what reason?
No one really does that. If company has that level of shtniness here comes a lawsuit. 

Time to subpoena ALL company travel records.
That, ahem, will never happen.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> If he had genuinely burning desire for you, he'd go. He doesn't. Also, stop calling it a "gift" because all you are doing is regifting something that was given to you.


She's being paid for going, to be exact.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She's being paid for going, to be exact.


Very true.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

With a woman, the man's prize is that friendship, those smiles, and those coy, understanding looks.
With a woman, the man's prize lies somewhere warm, wet and willing.

The journey to those places must ever remain inviting.

Never that unsure, maybe treacherous adventure.
Well, maybe just once.
One, and done.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> If he had genuinely burning desire for you, he'd go. He doesn't. Also, stop calling it a "gift" because all you are doing is re-gifting something that was given to you.


The trip is a re-gift, her loving self (if present) is always that gift.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

KindBuddha said:


> What reason?
> 
> Honesty. Integrity. And, if those words are meaningless to you--establishing clear boundaries.
> 
> ...


Ok man. Of course your right. I bow to your wittiness.

My experience is only from traveling weekly, well over 10 yrs through 37 US states, 7 or 8 different countries, thousands of hotels, expense reports, corporate travel policies setting, meetings, thousands of times traveling alone and with team members. 

Corporate doesn't care at all unless you rack up added expenses. And some then still don't care.

But hey you do you.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Personally, I love driving trips and would be totally excited to take such a trip, I'd even offer to be the driver.... especially with my new GF (only 5 months)... plus, I'd be considering they hadn't taken a trip together yet (which is kinda weird).

I read the thread quickly, but didn't see an answer to 'did you directly ask him why he didn't want to go?"

If he has a legitimate reason, probably minor deal... if there is some underlying anxiety, that is a big red flag, or if he didn't think it was a proper present (corporate paying for trip), that is also a red flag for some sort of high maintenance person.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Next time....

Stretch the trip out to the whole weekend, plus, add in a Friday and/or Monday.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Can he afford to pay for the fuel, the meals and the rest of the fun you will be having there? It would be quite a lot of money.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Can he afford to pay for the fuel, the meals and the rest of the fun you will be having there? It would be quite a lot of money.


Ahhh, but it's for his birthday, remember? That would be a good gift package.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ahhh, but it's for his birthday, remember? That would be a good gift package.


She said that only the room would be paid for.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> She said that only the room would be paid for.


By the company. Yes of course. So the obvious moral to the story is that expenses out of her pocket, or partial anyway whatever they may have agreed too......is her b'day present to him.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> By the company. Yes of course. So the obvious moral to the story is that expenses out of her pocket, or partial anyway whatever they may have agreed too......is her b'day present to him.


The birthday present comment is what I picked up on right away. That would have turned me off, especially, if we had been dating several months.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In the end the guy is a boring homebody who doesn’t communicate well when boxed into a corner and is intimidated by his woman.

If I were you I’d dump him instantly.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

KindBuddha said:


> It sounds boring. You have a work event to go to, what's he going to be able to do while you're at the work event? Sit at the hotel bar and get drunk while he's waiting for you? Then pack up the next morning and drive the four hours back? He's just an accessory to you like an electric toothbrush, or probably feels that way.


I have done exactly this before, was slightly bored but I got over it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I don't think you emasculated him. You've only been dating 5 months and are still learning about each other. It could be that as a homebody the thought of leaving for a weekend is torture for him. Or he had a better option come up for the weekend. Or as @In Absentia mentioned, he can't afford the trip. 

Unless you're in the sugaring lifestyle or dating an independently wealthy individual, I don't know anyone who gets or gives lavish gifts or trips at the 5 month dating mark. Enjoy your trip with a friend, buy your bf a $75-$100 birthday gift, and call it a day.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Can he afford to pay for the fuel, the meals and the rest of the fun you will be having there? It would be quite a lot of money.


Why would he pay for fuel?
It is a "Corporate" trip remember?
Why would his "Birthday Gift" include paying for fuel, when she is more than likely claiming mileage?
That's quite the "Gift," for him, allowing her to recoup double for transportation expenses.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ahhh, but it's for his birthday, remember? That would be a good gift package.


So generous. He would be a real "Kept" man if he accepted that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Regardless of the details, the fact that you're left guessing OP, as to why he declined when at first, he was excited, and then is now pulling away, is more of the issue. It isn't that difficult to tell someone honestly, 'hey, after thinking about it, I don't really want to intrude on your business trip,'' or whatever it could be. Just be blunt about it. But that's what dating is all about, to see who you are compatible with, and if communication will be a challenge on larger issues.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> By the company. Yes of course. So the obvious moral to the story is that expenses out of her pocket, or partial anyway whatever they may have agreed too......is her b'day present to him.


she can’t put on her expenses what she wants. That would be cheating. We don’t know anything else, so we are all speculating, as usual. All we know is that he is not paying for the room.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tdbo said:


> *Why would he pay for fuel?
> It is a "Corporate" trip remember?*
> Why would his "Birthday Gift" include paying for fuel, when she is more than likely claiming mileage?
> That's quite the "Gift," for him, allowing her to recoup double for transportation expenses.


You don’t cheat your company with expenses you are not entitled to.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


Why don't you ask him?

I've pretty much been on my wife so much since we met that, if not for birth control, we would have a dozen or more kids before she was much into her 40's.

I can't really put myself in his place because I don't understand it.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> You don’t cheat your company with expenses you are not entitled to.


If the thought process is that he is not paying for the lodging, because she would require the room anyway; then the same thought process would carry over to the fuel.
Her transportation would be covered both ways. If she travels via auto, she would be entitled to mileage.
The additional cost of him riding with her would be so miniscule, that it would not be worth calculating.
So if he provided her the cost of the fuel, she would be double dipping, and essentially making money on the deal.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> You don’t cheat your company with expenses you are not entitled to.


I've taken Mrs. Conan along uncounted times on the company dime. Paying for fuel is paying for fuel. Same with a hotel room regardless of one or two occupants.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Loves Coffee said:


> Sorry, are you saying he called himself a homebody? I've never heard anyone do this.


I've heard a lot of people call themselves a "homebody". There's nothing wrong with that term. He prefers to be in the comfort of his home. Cool. That's him. It's ok.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


What’s your best friend doing this weekend? Maybe he has ideas about her?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Going against the grain here:
> 
> Riding or driving 4 hours for an overnight with someone I'm in a relationship with doesn't sound bad to me.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I've been on 4 hr car rides that are a lot of fun. It's a great chance to talk and hang out. Then once in this place with the beach and a lot of other fun things, I'd enjoy exploring by myself and then with my date.

I'm amazed at the number of people here who are weighing the monetary value of the 'birthday present'. Really? Do you all have a dollar figure that has to be spent on you for a birthday present to be acceptable to you? 

She also did not say that it's the only 'birthday present' that she'd be giving him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

KindBuddha said:


> And if you actually talked to him and he told you he felt emasculated, it would very likely be because that's how you want him to feel.


This is just over the top. If he told her that he feels emasculated by her then that's what she wants? Really?

I dated a guy. He was upset because I had a big dog (German Shepherd). He said that women should not have big dogs. He said that women who had big dogs were basically "emasculating". He told me to get rid of my dog. I told him good bye. 

In no way did I want him to feel emasculated. I had no such goal. He owned his own choice to feel that way. And I don't need a man who thinks that the type of dog I have reflects on his manhood.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm thinking how


EleGirl said:


> I agree with this. I've been on 4 hr car rides that there even a lot of fun. It's a great chance to talk and hang out. Then once in this place with the beach and a lot of other fun things, I'd enjoy exploring by myself and then with my date.
> 
> I'm amazed at the number of people here who are weighing the monetary value of the 'birthday present'. Really? Do you all have a dollar figure that has to be spent on you for a birthday present to be acceptable to you?
> 
> She also did not say that it's the only 'birthday present' that she'd be giving him.


I just don't see how it is in any way shape or form a "birthday present".


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree with this. I've been on 4 hr car rides that there even a lot of fun. It's a great chance to talk and hang out. Then once in this place with the beach and a lot of other fun things, I'd enjoy exploring by myself and then with my date.
> 
> I'm amazed at the number of people here who are weighing the monetary value of the 'birthday present'. Really? Do you all have a dollar figure that has to be spent on you for a birthday present to be acceptable to you?
> 
> She also did not say that it's the only 'birthday present' that she'd be giving him.


Agreed... seems like there are some folks here who look for excuses to avoid having fun.

I've done birthday trips for my wife many times...


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> She also did not say that it's the only 'birthday present' that she'd be giving him.


If that's the case, why mention tagging along on a business trip as an early birthday present. Just reveal the real gift once you get there. That would be better, right?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Loves Coffee said:


> If that's the case, why mention tagging along on a business trip as an early birthday present. Just reveal the real gift once you get there. That would be better, right?


why is it even such a big flipp'n deal that she said it was an early birthday present? To me, I take it as her trying to cast the idea as fun and special... let's take the mostly expense paid trip to the beach and other really cool attractions. You can export the place and then when the meeting is over, I'll join you and we can have a good time... doing things that we would never be able to do in this town/city where we live. I don't get why people are so hung up on her adding (as perhaps an offhand remark) that she's thinking of it as an early birthday present.

Here there is a guy who is so passive aggressive that he can't even speak up and tell her in the kind way what's bugging him. But people are all concerned about the words "birthday present"? The problem here is not there she used the words "birthday present". The problem is that there is no good communication between them. They can't even deal with the idea of him not wanting to go on a trip in a way that is healthy.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I'm thinking how
> 
> 
> I just don't see how it is in any way shape or form a "birthday present".


I wouldn’t have presented it as any part of a birthday gift if, as it appears, he’s expected to be footing part of the bill. Call it what it seems to be — a shared trip with split expenses — and don’t even mention birthday. Then he can agree or not agree. Odd, though, was being excited one day and changing his mind the next.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tdbo said:


> If the thought process is that he is not paying for the lodging, because she would require the room anyway; then the same thought process would carry over to the fuel.
> Her transportation would be covered both ways. If she travels via auto, she would be entitled to mileage.
> The additional cost of him riding with her would be so miniscule, that it would not be worth calculating.
> So if he provided her the cost of the fuel, she would be double dipping, and essentially making money on the deal.


If she drives, fine, not if she is flying. Do we know that? No.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I've taken Mrs. Conan along uncounted times on the company dime. Paying for fuel is paying for fuel. Same with a hotel room regardless of one or two occupants.


Yes, but we don’t know if she is driving or not.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KindBuddha said:


> OP has said her bf finds her
> "intimidating." Perhaps the prospect of 4 hours up and another 4 hours back trapped in a car with her in close quarters is not his idea of a good time. She has to talk with him about it, in a non-intimidating way, if she is capable of doing that, and only if she actually cares about his feelings and opinions.


A man being intimidated by his girlfriend isn't going to work for sure.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He told me I was intimidating ... after the first date, he looked me up on LinkedIn, and said that.
> He said he liked it.
> And he wondered aloud if my ex husband (serial cheater and physical abuser) was perhaps intimidated too??


As you've learned from your past , men who are intimidated by strong, intelligent women who think for themselves make poor husbands. I think you are the one who dodged a bullet here. If he needs you to hold yourself back and not be successful so he can "feel" manly, that means you need a manlier man. 

Of course that is conjecture, we don't know why he's pulling away. I doubt it's your success OR this trip, though. Feels like it's something else.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> why is it even such a big flipp'n deal that she said it was an early birthday present? To me, I take it as her trying to cast the idea as fun and special... let's take the mostly expense paid trip to the beach and other really cool attractions. You can export the place and then when the meeting is over, I'll join you and we can have a good time... doing things that we would never be able to do in this town/city where we live. I don't get why people are so hung up on her adding (as perhaps an offhand remark) that she's thinking of it as an early birthday present.
> 
> Here there is a guy who is so passive aggressive that he can't even speak up and tell her in the kind way what's bugging him. But people are all concerned about the words "birthday present"? The problem here is not there she used the words "birthday present". The problem is that there is no good communication between them. They can't even deal with the idea of him not wanting to go on a trip in a way that is healthy.


Is his love language gifts or quality time? 

The situation is here is a couple 5 months into their relationship and smitten with each other. His first birthday with her. From her other posts, she is pinching herself to see if this is real. Now ask yourself does this sound like effort on her part? We're not talking about a couple who has been together a long time. As for any other gifts she would give him, she already responded herself. 


Sierralyn20 said:


> The pleasure of my company?😁


Tongue in cheek? She should have just bought him a tshirt or a "**** in the box" as the SNL skit said and taken less risk. Saying the company trip is a gift shows very poor decision making on her part as to how it could be received. Since there are so many posters here agreeing with this, why do you doubt?

I've been married to my wife for 8 years. If my gift was to come on a business trip and follow-up with an extra night or something added on that would be great, but this is a different situation.

It's funny how red flags are shown by her, but she is a "strong and intelligent woman" who is intimidating men. I don't buy that for a second.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> If she drives, fine, not if she is flying. Do we know that? No.


Then why would he pay for fuel? Note #86.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Tdbo said:


> Then why would he pay for fuel? Note #86.


Because she only said she is paying for the room. Well, not her, but her company. I still finding it immoral.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> she can’t put on her expenses what she wants. That would be cheating. We don’t know anything else, so we are all speculating, as usual. All we know is that he is not paying for the room.


Of course she wouldn't expense his meals. Or his drinks. Or his sight seeing monies spent. Or his whatever costs outside what the trip would cost the company for the employee to travel alone. That's kind of obvious stuff, now.

I know you know what out of her own pocket means. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Why don't you ask him?
> 
> I've pretty much been on my wife so much since we met that, if not for birth control, we would have a dozen or more kids before she was much into her 40's.
> 
> I can't really put myself in his place because I don't understand it.


Same. My girlfriend is like “hey I want you to come on this trip with me” especially at the 5 month mark, yeah we bangin! I mean it’s one thing if you can’t go because of work or something so why not just ask him?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Tdbo said:


> Then why would he pay for fuel? Note #86.


She said its four hours, and it's not flying, its driving. She gets mileage or other compensation if using her pov. I think that's been beat to death.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Same. My girlfriend is like “hey I want you to come on this trip with me” especially at the 5 month mark, yeah we bangin! I mean it’s one thing if you can’t go because of work or something so why not just ask him?


Especially a beach! The whole setup sounds like foreplay to this barbarian.😁


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

My how this whole thread went South. It's not that complicated. Good luck with the relationship OP.

Best wishes. Common sense seems to have fled.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

My gut feeling is telling me this guy is a scaredy wuss.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Is this the same guy who was clueless about how to kiss?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> I dated a guy. He was upset because I had a big dog (German Shepherd). He said that women should not have big dogs. He said that women who had big dogs were basically "emasculating". He told me to get rid of my dog. I told him good bye.


That guy couldn’t run with them so he best stay on the porch.



ConanHub said:


> Especially a beach! The whole setup sounds like foreplay to this barbarian.😁


Agreed. I took my wife on a trip to the beach when she was my girlfriend and it was popping off.

Actually she went with me on my last business trip and that was also popping off, although oddly she worked more on that trip than I did.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> men who are intimidated by strong, intelligent women who think for themselves make poor husbands.


men who are intimidated by strong, intelligent women who think for themselves make poor...men


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I’m leaving this thread. It’s all assumptions and a waste of time.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I don't get it too. I once offered my wife a really cool thing that I got from work (swag) as a birthday gift - it was this really cool multi office kit with a tiny stapeler and everything and branded with my company's logo. This made her upset and I cannot figure out why.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


Are you going to ask him why he changed his mind? (Without adding any speculation.)


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I think this thread should be used as a case study for love languages. Reading the responses you can see Gifts, Acts of Service, and Quality Time, and how those who are one can't understand the other. Imagine this argument in a relationship.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Oh dear. What happened to my thread? I'm in the train home so I'll just respond to the various questions here;

1. Corporate policy - there's a high cap allowable on traveling i.e hotel expenses, flights, meals etc. Companions are allowed, but the policy is clear: any expenses above the allowable cap are borne by the employee. Fares and flights for a companion are also on the employee. I was planning on paying for the expenses above the cap myself, but offered to split because I know him...he always wants to pay for things.

2. 4 hour drive each way (taking into account the DC traffic on 95). I agree that all that driving isn't everyone's cup of tea.

3. We spoke on the phone during my lunch hour...we're meeting later tonight. He says he'd just returned from a 5 hr drive camping with his bros a week ago and wasn't enthusiastic about hitting the road again so soon, which is why he declined after giving it some thought.

4. Birthday present...see above. I was hoping we could spend the entire weekend together. The corporate event is actually a 1-2 hour court appearance for my job. It was set on Friday at midday. I would be free thereafter. No colleagues or anyone... 

5. Emasculating/ Intimidating...don't know what to say about this. He said from the beginning I was intimidating after seeing my LinkedIn profile after date #1. 

6. Yes, he asked me to exclusive on date # 3

7. He also said he'd love to tag along next time I travel, so we can get away for more than just a night or two. He just needs more notice in advance.

8. I appreciate all the insights as usual....the good, bad and ugly. I hope this clears some questions.

What else didn't I answer?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Is this the same guy who was clueless about how to kiss?


Same guy, but magnificent kisser now.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Everything seems in order to me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Oh dear. What happened to my thread? I'm in the train home so I'll just respond to the various questions here;
> 
> 1. Corporate policy - there's a high cap allowable on traveling i.e hotel expenses, flights, meals etc. Companions are allowed, but the policy is clear: any expenses above the allowable cap are borne by the employee. Fares and flights for a companion are also on the employee. I was planning on paying for the expenses above the cap myself, but offered to split because I know him...he always wants to pay for things.
> 
> ...


#5 is concerning. If he doesn’t see himself on your level in terms of success, whether that’s true or not, it will be tough as time goes on.

I think it all makes sense why he didn’t want to go, but #5 is concerning, imo.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> #5 is concerning. If he doesn’t see himself on your level in terms of success, whether that’s true or not, it will be tough as time goes on.
> 
> I think it all makes sense why he didn’t want to go, but #5 is concerning, imo.


Agreed. I can tell you my marriage was… smoother when H started out-earning me. It was a process and there was never a reason for him to feel insecure, but it bugged him I know. You’re better off with a man on your level, if he sincerely feels that way.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

KindBuddha said:


> The question I have is, "Why would you immediately jump to thinking he felt as though you emasculated him, as the reason for his declination?"
> 
> You're projecting. Beyond an attempt at mind-reading, which usually doesn't work very well, you're assigning to him (with no apparent basis) the idea that he should and does feel emasculated by you.
> 
> ...


Being intimidating isn't a necessarily good or bad. It depends on the context. A career, looks, height, success etc. can be a compliment. Intimidating in the sense of loud, brass, sassy etc...wouldn't be a compliment in my books.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

KindBuddha said:


> Exactly. And the room she will be staying in is being provided by the corporation specifically to help her do whatever work they are paying her to do which requires the hotel room.
> 
> He is not a spouse. He is just some guy she is dating. Maybe corporate hq doesn't want to be paying its money to house non-related personal friends or guests. She needs to ask if this is O.K. is she hasn't already.



My company allows for companions to travel, but anything above the allowable capnon meals, travel, etc..are borne by the employee. People do it all the time.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Being intimidating isn't a necessarily good or bad. It depends on the context. A career, looks, height, success etc. can be a compliment. Intimidating in the sense of loud, brass, sassy etc...wouldn't be a compliment in my books.


Agreed. If his head is screwed on straight then it doesn’t matter.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Livvie said:


> I'm thinking how
> 
> 
> I just don't see how it is in any way shape or form a "birthday present".


Really? Spending hours in the enjoyable company of someone isn't a birthday present? Getting away from the daily pressures of life isn't a great birthday present? Different strokes I guess.
He was extremely excited about the idea, but said we could plan better next time, he needs adequate notice.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Because she only said she is paying for the room. Well, not her, but her company. I still finding it immoral.


Wow...so you wouldn't accompany a significant other to a partially corporate paid travel? Because it's immoral? You'd rather she picks up 100% of the tab to feel appreciated? 

Would you accept a gift out of groupon or a coupon?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> What else didn't I answer?


What are you getting him for his birthday?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

KindBuddha said:


> He's certainly not passive aggressive. He told her he didn't want to join her on this little trip. That's not passive aggressive, that's healthily setting boundaries and healthily assertive.


At first, he told her that he'd go and that he was excited about it. Then later he told her that he would not go and did not offer any explanation.



KindBuddha said:


> Passive aggressive would have been going on the trip with her and making it a miserable experience for both of them.


No, there are many ways to express passive aggressive behavior. One of them is to not explain why you change your mind after accepting an invitation and act excited about it.



KindBuddha said:


> It's a work trip. She should be doing work stuff and if there is any free time, using it to network with her professional colleagues. Typically that's the kind of thing that employers expect people to do on these things anyway--you get together with your colleagues and talk shop over drinks and dinner. Teambuilding type stuff.


You are making all sorts of assumptions. I've been on a lot of business trips. With the type of work I do, there is no socializing that goes outside of the working the issue. I'm there to work on an issue. Once the workday is done, I'm on my own. We do team building by working together.



KindBuddha said:


> If she wants to take a weekend away with him, then that's what she should do. Prioritize him and the relationship, not treat him as an accessory or afterthought.


Inviting a person to take advantage of a trip to a location that features the beach and other fun attractions is not treating them as an accessory or afterthought. Geez


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Oh dear. What happened to my thread? I'm in the train home so I'll just respond to the various questions here;
> 
> 1. Corporate policy - there's a high cap allowable on traveling i.e hotel expenses, flights, meals etc. Companions are allowed, but the policy is clear: any expenses above the allowable cap are borne by the employee. Fares and flights for a companion are also on the employee. I was planning on paying for the expenses above the cap myself, but offered to split because I know him...he always wants to pay for things.
> 
> ...


So it seems all is resolved and good. Is that right?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Sierralyn,

Perhaps it's not just you but your co-workers who will be on this trip.

If they are a bunch of loud aggressive sales people or lawyers each trying to outdo the others jokes, it may make him feel bad about himself or inferior. Also the topics of conversation may be about people and company gossip which he has no interest in.

Is there anyone going to be there from the company with whom you had a prior romantic or physical relationship, or who he suspect you of having?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> What are you getting him for his birthday?


The Dollar Tree has a lot of useful items 🤣


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> The Dollar Tree has a lot of useful items 🤣


I was thinking more of the Victoria Secret type of gift


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

How old is he?


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

This one has the scent of "Something Rotten in Denmark" - OP - you need to start looking in detail at your relationship with your partner.
What you proffered is common - his bailing - unless he has a important conflicting commitment - is a RED flag. Just doesn't smell right . . .


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Wow...so you wouldn't accompany a significant other to a partially corporate paid travel? Because it's immoral? You'd rather she picks up 100% of the tab to feel appreciated?
> 
> Would you accept a gift out of groupon or a coupon?


No. Can’t think of anything more boring and I wouldn’t like sponging off the company. Btw, I thought that by “joining you” you meant that you would be there already, not that your boyfriend would be travelling with you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> No. Can’t think of anything more boring and I wouldn’t like sponging off the company. Btw, I thought that by “joining you” you meant that you would be there already, not that your boyfriend would be travelling with you.


So, they drive to the destination (4 hours). She goes and spends 1-2 hours in the courthouse. Then the two of them have the entire weekend to spend at the beach, at other attractions, etc. And you think that 2 days of fun at the beach is boring? Just asking because I find that odd.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So, they drive to the destination (4 hours). She goes and spends 1-2 hours in the courthouse. Then the two of them have the entire weekend to spend at the beach, at other attractions, etc. And you think that 2 days of fun at the beach is boring? Just asking because I find that odd.


Where does she say it's only going to be 1-2 hours in the courtroom? I can't find it. She said they are going to spend "Friday night together".


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Where does she say it's only going to be 1-2 hours in the courtroom? I can't find it. She said they are going to spend "Friday night together".





Sierralyn20 said:


> Birthday present...see above. I was hoping we could spend the entire weekend together. The corporate event is actually a 1-2 hour court appearance for my job. It was set on Friday at midday. I would be free thereafter. No colleagues or anyone...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ah, yes, found it...  that's completely different. Still, I would have 3 issues: staying in a hotel room I'm not paying for, 8 hours drive, I hate corporate stuff...  But we know the reason now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> Where does she say it's only going to be 1-2 hours in the courtroom? I can't find it.





Sierralyn20 said:


> 4. Birthday present...see above. I was hoping we could spend the entire weekend together. *The corporate event is actually a 1-2 hour court appearance for my job*. It was set on Friday at midday. I would be free thereafter. No colleagues or anyone...





In Absentia said:


> She said they are going to spend "Friday night together".





Sierralyn20 said:


> I invited boyfriend to tag along for a night away...4 hours drive one way...*we could spend Friday night together (hotel corporate paid, meals split) and return Saturday or Sunday*.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Yes, I have seen it now. @BeyondRepair007 also pointed that out. It's impossible to know why he is not going. I don't like the corporate environment and staying somewhere I'm not paying for. Maybe the boyfriend doesn't either. The OP mentions her boyfriend going camping with his brother. They seem two completely different ways to enjoy yourself.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I am struggling with why the two of you got married? You: intimidating - him: lousy kisser and a "homebody". Were you really attracted to him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> I am struggling with why the two of you got married? You: intimidating - him: lousy kisser and a "homebody". Were you really attracted to him?


They are not married. Have been dating for 5 months.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

manfromlamancha said:


> I am struggling with why the two of you got married? You: intimidating - him: lousy kisser and a "homebody". Were you really attracted to him?


Not married. Dating. The kissing isn't a problem anymore.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> So it seems all is resolved and good. Is that right?


Unfortunately not. He just canceled Friday night...texted early this morning to say he has something going on at work and he'll talk to me next Tuesday (week from today).

This has happened a couple of times, but my patience is wearing thin.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Openminded said:


> How old is he?


He is almost 48. I'm 41.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Unfortunately not. He just canceled Friday night...texted early this morning to say he has something going on at work and he'll talk to me next Tuesday (week from today).
> 
> This has happened a couple of times, but my patience is wearing thin.


Ok, so he wants you to be exclusive. He also doesn't want to take a mini vacation with you. And now he says he's so busy that he can't talk to you for a week? No further explanation? Being exclusive comes with obligations, like explaining why he's going be unavailable, can't even talk to you for a week.

What kind of work does he do? Is he in the secret service and thus goes on secret missions where he can't contact anyone least he blows his cover? (Only half joking here.)

It sounds like he's pulling away. This is very normal in relationships. Here's a good video on this.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I agree... not talking to you until next week is... weird?


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


You mentioned kissing but have you gone further than just kissing with your boyfriend?
This is a work trip and you are more or less just asking him to follow you and come along for the ride.
Have you ever suggested you and him go on a proper romantic trip together?
For me personally, if I had a girlfriend who asked me to tag along with her on a work trip as a birthday present, I too would probably decline and even feel offended. It`s as if you`re trying to kill too birds with one stone by combining your job with your boyfriend as a convenience.
Maybe you are not into this relationship as much as he is or that`s how it appears on reading your posts.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

..


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


In Absentia said:



No. Can’t think of anything more boring and I wouldn’t like sponging off the company. Btw, I thought that by “joining you” you meant that you would be there already, not that your boyfriend would be travelling with you.

Click to expand...

*LOL...a partially company-funded trip to the beach and nice accommodations would be boring and 'sponging' off the company? The company ALLOWS for spouses to accompany employees up to a certain amount, with the *employee* covering the costs the company doesn't pay. How in the world is that "sponging?"

And if you want to talk about boring, years ago, my first husband owned a hardware store and we used to go to Hardware trade shows at nice resorts. Sadly, the entire day was spent walking around the venue, looking at new products and buying stock from the vendors for the store. Now *THAT'S* boring.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL...a partially company-funded trip to the beach and nice accommodations would be boring and 'sponging' off the company? The company ALLOWS for spouses to accompany employees up to a certain amount, with the *employee* covering the costs the company doesn't pay. How in the world is that "sponging?"
> 
> And if you want to talk about boring, years ago, my first husband owned a hardware store and we used to go to Hardware trade shows at nice resorts. Sadly, the entire day was spent walking around the venue, looking at new products and buying stock from the vendors for the store. Now *THAT'S* boring.


Ok, maybe it's not "sponging" since the company allows it, but it's not my cup of it, the corporate world. And I hate the beach...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Unfortunately not. He just canceled Friday night...texted early this morning to say he has something going on at work and he'll talk to me next Tuesday (week from today).
> 
> This has happened a couple of times, but my patience is wearing thin.


He's not going to talk with you for a week? lol If it were me, I'd move on.

These seem like flags to not ignore, and when people ignore them, they only get worse. Don't settle.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Unfortunately not. He just canceled Friday night...texted early this morning to say he has something going on at work and he'll talk to me next Tuesday (week from today).
> 
> This has happened a couple of times, but my patience is wearing thin.


Waiting to talk until a week, from a person you're dating is not just a little bit but very atypical between two exclusive dating folks.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Waiting to talk until a week, from a person you're dating is not just a little bit but very atypical between two exclusive dating folks.


This x 1000


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

From the way you write it doesn't sound like the two of you are compatible. You don't seem to have much respect for him. He doesn't want to go on your work trip... period. The whys don't matter. He doesn't want to go and that's that, so stop feeling like this is some kind of battle you need to win. If his refusal to go with you is such a slap in the face to you then break up with him and find a guy willing to be the boyfriend you want.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah … not sure the two of you can really align long-term.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

It's a boyfriend, not a husband. Lots of red flags and issues during a time when it's supposed to be all sweet talk and sex. Are you sure this is worth it?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Exactly ^^

He sounds like he’s playing games, honestly. Not declining going on the trip but pulling away and telling you he’ll talk to you in a week. This is someone that is either playing games to get you to chase him (yuck) or he’s seeing others and leading you on to believe you’re exclusive. Also yuck.

Agree with Texasmom, this should be the best time ever (if you’re compatible), if you’re exclusive and dating someone for only a few months.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's a boyfriend, not a husband. Lots of red flags and issues during a time when it's supposed to be all sweet talk and sex. Are you sure this is worth it?


May I agree while at the same time not?
If a LTR is no more also (not "all" but necessarily also) to be all sweet talk and sex.... 
Are you sure this is worth it?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I am reading this as you offered this to him out of love/kindness. The only thing I can think of is maybe the short timeframe of your relationship. As long as the relationship was progressing normally though, I don’t see why he would have felt uneasy with taking the trip.

I would love a trip like that, especially if there would be some quality time being spent together.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> He's not going to talk with you for a week? lol If it were me, I'd move on.
> 
> These seem like flags to not ignore, and when people ignore them, they only get worse. Don't settle.


Yes, I'm thinking the same thing...this has happened twice in the past, where he said he would be busy for a week or two. I'm thinking to cut bait.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

GoodDad5 said:


> I am reading this as you offered this to him out of love/kindness. The only thing I can think of is maybe the short timeframe of your relationship. As long as the relationship was progressing normally though, I don’t see why he would have felt uneasy with taking the trip.
> 
> I would love a trip like that, especially if there would be some quality time being spent together.


That's what I thought too, but it appears he didn't feel the same way, which is totally fine.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> Exactly ^^
> 
> He sounds like he’s playing games, honestly. Not declining going on the trip but pulling away and telling you he’ll talk to you in a week. This is someone that is either playing games to get you to chase him (yuck) or he’s seeing others and leading you on to believe you’re exclusive. Also yuck.
> 
> Agree with Texasmom, this should be the best time ever (if you’re compatible), if you’re exclusive and dating someone for only a few months.


I've given this some thought as well. Not sure what happened, the guy was way enthusiastic up until a few weeks ago. I'm wondering how to end this, though. Text? Phone call? Wait till Tuesday to break this off? He's literally texted to say he'll not be available to talk until Tuesday.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's a boyfriend, not a husband. Lots of red flags and issues during a time when it's supposed to be all sweet talk and sex. Are you sure this is worth it?


It was up until this trip thing started. He's gone distant twice before, and I've backed way off when this happens.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If it were me, if he reaches out on Tuesday I'd tell him it's over. But I would not reach out to him. I'd assume it's over and not make any more effort. I know that's probably not the most mature option, but when someone blows me off once, that's enough for me.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

ArthurGPym said:


> From the way you write it doesn't sound like the two of you are compatible. You don't seem to have much respect for him. He doesn't want to go on your work trip... period. The whys don't matter. He doesn't want to go and that's that, so stop feeling like this is some kind of battle you need to win. If his refusal to go with you is such a slap in the face to you then break up with him and find a guy willing to be the boyfriend you want.


Yikes, you're angry, but thanks for the insight. I've been nothing but respectful to this guy. If suggesting a trip not to his liking or timing seems disrespectful then it is what it is.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Ok, so he wants you to be exclusive. He also doesn't want to take a mini vacation with you. And now he says he's so busy that he can't talk to you for a week? No further explanation? Being exclusive comes with obligations, like explaining why he's going be unavailable, can't even talk to you for a week.
> 
> What kind of work does he do? Is he in the secret service and thus goes on secret missions where he can't contact anyone least he blows his cover? (Only half joking here.)
> 
> It sounds like he's pulling away. This is very normal in relationships. Here's a good video on this.


He's done disappearing acts twice before, but blamed work. First time it was a week (texted to blame it on an overdue project). Second time it was a leg injury while training for a marathon. I keep super busy too, so I gave him space.
I'm thinking this relationship is done, and wondering whether to wait till Tuesday to break things off.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I've given this some thought as well. Not sure what happened, the guy was way enthusiastic up until a few weeks ago. I'm wondering how to end this, though. Text? Phone call? Wait till Tuesday to break this off? He's literally texted to say he'll not be available to talk until Tuesday.


That’s really odd. So you’re exclusively dating someone who isn’t going to say one word to you for a week? lol

I would just let it go. Let him reach out next Tuesday. And if he doesn’t, don’t bother. If he does, just let him know that you’ve had a change of heart and wish him well.

It’s fine to not want to join you at the hotel. But, telling you he won’t be available for a week to talk at all is not worth investing anymore of your time.

That’s someone who either has a secret life he doesn’t want you to know about or he’s playing games. Either thing is not worth it. I don’t think people are all that complicated, to be honest. Usually our gut feelings are right about strange situations like this one.

Good luck and be strong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's done disappearing acts twice before, but blamed work. First time it was a week (texted to blame it on an overdue project). Second time it was a leg injury while training for a marathon. I keep super busy too, so I gave him space.
> I'm thinking this relationship is done, and wondering whether to wait till Tuesday to break things off.


The way I would handle it is to just not contact him again. Just go on with my life assuming it's over.

Often when guys pull away like this, they want to end the relationship but don't want to be the ones to say the words. They want the woman to be the one to break it off to let them off the hook. Again, a passive aggressive way of handling things.

If he does contact you again next week or sometime later, just tell him that you are too busy and let it go.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I've given this some thought as well. Not sure what happened, the guy was way enthusiastic up until a few weeks ago. I'm wondering how to end this, though. Text? Phone call? Wait till Tuesday to break this off? He's literally texted to say he'll not be available to talk until Tuesday.


He told you that in a text? A text? That's not acceptable in a committed relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's done disappearing acts twice before, but blamed work. First time it was a week (texted to blame it on an overdue project). Second time it was a leg injury while training for a marathon. I keep super busy too, so I gave him space.
> I'm thinking this relationship is done, and wondering whether to wait till Tuesday to break things off.


Yea, it must be very hard for him to call you every night and say goodnight because of an overdue project and then a hurt leg. I can see why these things would prevent him from sending a text once in a while saying he's thinking of you. (I'm being sarcastic of course.)


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I've given this some thought as well. Not sure what happened, the guy was way enthusiastic up until a few weeks ago. I'm wondering how to end this, though. Text? Phone call? Wait till Tuesday to break this off? He's literally texted to say he'll not be available to talk until Tuesday.


So just don't contact him. If HE wants to talk to you Tuesday, let him do that. In the meantime, live your life...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I'm thinking how
> 
> 
> I just don't see how it is in any way shape or form a "birthday present".


Not unless he gets a serious present after they are at the hotel.....talking 3 hour wild monkey sex that will make him loose his mind "birthday present"


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He's done disappearing acts twice before, but blamed work. First time it was a week (texted to blame it on an overdue project). Second time it was a leg injury while training for a marathon. I keep super busy too, so I gave him space.
> I'm thinking this relationship is done, and wondering whether to wait till Tuesday to break things off.


Those things don't stop communication if he is keen. They seem to be excuses. 
I would just stop communicating to be honest.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

I get the not communicating part, but I very much prefer to be clear and end things. Or else I'll be anxiously waiting for Tuesday. And I know he'll reach out. He always reappear exactly when he says he will.

Here I was thinking it's OK to give space and not be needy or clingy. Pity, I liked him. I'm thinking of all the home cooked meals I prepared after work, quality time together, strong sexual chemistry, dates, hikes, concerts etc. (We both initiated and took turns paying). I was hoping for a wonderful trip around his birthday next week.

Anyway, how does this text look? I'm not waiting till Tuesday. 
" Hey, this isn't working for me anymore, and I'd like to cut bait. I truly cherish all the wonderful times we shared. I hope all is well at work. Goodbye. Xoxo"


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> He told you that in a text? A text? That's not acceptable in a committed relationship.


Yup....text.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I get the not communicating part, but I very much prefer to be clear and end things. Or else I'll be anxiously waiting for Tuesday. And I know he'll reach out. He always reappear exactly when he says he will.
> 
> Here I was thinking it's OK to give space and not be needy or clingy. Pity, I liked him. I'm thinking of all the home cooked meals I prepared after work, quality time together, strong sexual chemistry, dates, hikes, concerts etc. (We both initiated and took turns paying). I was hoping for a wonderful trip around his birthday next week.
> 
> ...


Sounds fine to me.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Anyway, how does this text look? I'm not waiting till Tuesday.
> " Hey, this isn't working for me anymore, and I'd like to cut bait. I truly cherish all the wonderful times we shared. I hope all is well at work. Goodbye. Xoxo"


“Cut bait” is slang and the sentence leaves just a hint of room for interpretation or negotiation.

This is more ‘final’ so-to-say:
“Hey, this isn't working for me anymore, and I'm going to cut bait and we can go our seperate ways. I truly cherish all the wonderful times we shared. I hope all is well at work. Goodbye. Xoxo”


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I get the not communicating part, but I very much prefer to be clear and end things. Or else I'll be anxiously waiting for Tuesday. And I know he'll reach out. He always reappear exactly when he says he will.
> 
> Here I was thinking it's OK to give space and not be needy or clingy. Pity, I liked him. I'm thinking of all the home cooked meals I prepared after work, quality time together, strong sexual chemistry, dates, hikes, concerts etc. (We both initiated and took turns paying). I was hoping for a wonderful trip around his birthday next week.
> 
> ...


I am with you about that. What's wrong with giving space and not being clingy? If you're okay with the relationship staying casual enough that one person can just say 'talk to you in a week' without the other person freaking out, then it's fine, right? Especially when he's reliable about reappearing.

On the other hand, I'm worried. First, he was keen to go on this trip when you mentioned it? Then he suddenly changes his mind with some BS excuse about not wanting to travel again so soon after his last trip. If that's true, he could have just said it in the first place instead of making you wonder enough to start this thread.

And now, he's telling you he won't be available to you that entire weekend, plus a few days before and after it? Now, I'm REALLY wondering what he's up to this weekend. It sounds more like he already had something else planned that he doesn't want you to know about, but forgot the timing when he initially showed enthusiasm about your trip idea.

I don't know that breaking up with him is the logical next move, but definitely a conversation about communicating better is in order to see how he responds. Tell him you can't move forward in a relationship with someone who doesn't respect his partner enough to explain himself and his actions up front, and who finds completely disappearing for a week at a time to be reasonable. If he won't have that conversation, then yeah, disconnect. It sounds like you also want someone more keen to be around you even if it means two trips in a row. Maybe he's just too homebody to be right for you.

I also find the term 'cut bait' a bit slangy for a break-up. Just say you're going to stop seeing him. Your whole planned text is wishy washy. Typical confusing feminine "let them down easy" drivel. Why would you say you cherish the wonderful times? It contradicts your intention to break up because it will make him wonder why you are breaking up when you only mention good times and not what was not working for you. Why would anyone end a break-up text with Xoxo?? And your wording of _I'd like to cut bait_ sounds like an intention, not an action. Say only _I'm cutting bait, _or it leaves an opening for argument. If you still intend to break up instead of having a conversation about needing more explanations and respect from him, just say something BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) like "I'm ending our relationship. I need a partner more enthusiastic about trips with me, and who doesn't disappear for a week without sharing why. Thanks for the good times, too bad we're not compatible for something more serious."

And on your overall thread theme, no, nothing about this sounds emasculating. To me, emasculating is when someone makes fun of a guy, like jokes about his 'man card' or him liking feminine things, or being a weakling, etc. There's a bullying element to it. A woman can be intimidating and have a high-powered career and be loud and obnoxious and all that, but unless she's telling the world her guy has a small penis or berates him for not knowing how to mow the lawn, she's not emasculating him. If a guy is sensitive enough to feel emasculated by a woman who happens to make a bigger salary than him or wants to share corporate trips, that's a HIM problem.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Are you sure he isnt actually married?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sierralyn20 said:


> There has been numerous home cooked meals, s
> 
> Never..First trip with a boyfriend. He knows this.


Just ask him why he doesn't want to go!

You sound like you wanted to use this as a way to build the relationship. He sounded like he was excited about it. It sounded like a pretty hollow birthday present, since the only thing you appeared to be giving him was your time and sharing company reimbursed expenses for yourself.

I have taken my wife on business trips and she has found that sometimes she enjoys herself and sometimes if I am not around much, she feels like a second fiddle and ignored. What happened could be as simple as he though this was going to be a time to bond with you and then realized he would be alone in the hotel room or killing time in a city he knew little about and realized he wouldn't be having a great time. 

If for some reason, he doesn't go (or even if he does) get him a "real" and special birthday present, if you care about him.

Good luck.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Yikes, you're angry, but thanks for the insight. I've been nothing but respectful to this guy. If suggesting a trip not to his liking or timing seems disrespectful then it is what it is.


Several people here have made semi-disparaging remarks about your boyfriend and you have agreed with most of them.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Are you sure he isnt actually married?


This. I kind of wondered this, too.

Again, there's nothing wrong with him turning down the hotel ''gift,'' but I just think you want more out of a relationship than this @Sierralyn20 , and there's nothing wrong with that, either. You're both not compatible.

There are quite a few threads on this site about people who’ve ignored the lack of compatibility and clash in personality types yet still married the person, only to regret that five years or so down the road. Often times, a common question in the replies is “was he/she like this when you dated?” And the response from the OP is often “I thought he/she would change.”

People don’t usually change their core personalities just because they’re in love. So, I would just let it go and let him reach out. You can then tell him that you don’t think you’re compatible, no need to blame. It’s no one’s fault - it happens.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

OMG.Our Courthouse doesn't have any record of his divorce. All I had to do was drive 2 miles (WFH today), take the elevator up to 3rd floor, and talk to a clerk. 

Cannot believe I fell for this crap. He specifically told me he was divorced (before the first date) and I believed it. I ask every guy what ended their last relationship...he said there was no infidelity, they grew apart, no intimacy, yadayada...etc.

I performed my usual cursory search online before the first date, found no criminal records, but there was a jointly held real property. He actually volunteered this information upfront and said the house was yet to be sold (wasn't really a red flag to me because my ex kept our former house and I'm yet to get off the deed/mortgage 2 yrs post divorce). 

I'm such a big fool. I feel terrible for his poor wife, and so very ashamed that I played a part in someone's infidelity. This is dreadful. What is it with some guys? Jesus.

I'm seated outside on a bench in shock.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> OMG.Our Courthouse doesn't have any record of his divorce. All I had to do was drive 2 miles (WFH today), take the elevator up to 3rd floor, and talk to a clerk.
> 
> Cannot believe I fell for this crap. He specifically told me he was divorced (before the first date) and I believed it. I ask every guy what ended their last relationship...he said there was no infidelity, they grew apart, no intimacy, yadayada...etc.
> 
> ...


How do you know the divorce wasn't granted in another venue? Did you do a statewide search?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

ArthurGPym said:


> Several people here have made semi-disparaging remarks about your boyfriend and you have agreed with most of them.


I'm on TAM to hear it all... the good with the bad. I'm not expecting anyone I date to be 100% perfect. Not everything is a dealbreaker to me. 

And I'm not ever putting a guy I've known for 5 months on a pedestal.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> OMG.Our Courthouse doesn't have any record of his divorce. All I had to do was drive 2 miles (WFH today), take the elevator up to 3rd floor, and talk to a clerk.
> 
> Cannot believe I fell for this crap. He specifically told me he was divorced (before the first date) and I believed it. I ask every guy what ended their last relationship...he said there was no infidelity, they grew apart, no intimacy, yadayada...etc.
> 
> ...


If this is the case, that would explain a lot. 

Are you connected on social media?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Livvie said:


> How do you know the divorce wasn't granted in another venue? Did you do a statewide search?


Yeah, but he's lived in this county for 20 years.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> If this is the case, that would explain a lot.
> 
> Are you connected on social media?


 I'm only on LinkedIn. We're connected there.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I'm only on LinkedIn. We're connected there.


If you were on FB, this might have come up sooner as he likely wouldn’t have added you. (if he’s still married) That would have been a red flag. If this turns out to be true, I’m sorry this happened.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> If you were on FB, this might have come up sooner as he likely wouldn’t have added you. (if he’s still married) That would have been a red flag. If this turns out to be true, I’m sorry this happened.


Yeah, but I had one of my gfs check FB too earlier on, they were both on there. 
Wife had nothing about him in her profile, just stuff about her kids, friends, hobbies etc. He had nothing about her, too. 

I also found an obituary online from years ago when his MIL passed, no mention of him on his MIL's obituary. I did my homework beforehand. I took his word on being divorced for over a year. This is messed up. I've been to his condo several times!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Yeah, but I had one of my gfs check FB too earlier on, they were both on there.
> Wife had nothing about him in her profile, just stuff about her kids, friends, hobbies etc. He had nothing about her, too.
> 
> I also found an obituary online from years ago when his MIL passed, no mention of him on his MIL's obituary. I did my homework beforehand. I took his word on being divorced for over a year. This is messed up. I've been to his condo several times!


Maybe he's in the midst of a divorce, or just separated.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Cannot believe I fell for this crap. He specifically told me he was divorced (before the first date) and I believed it. I ask every guy what ended their last relationship...he said there was no infidelity, they grew apart, no intimacy, yadayada...etc.
> 
> I performed my usual cursory search online before the first date, found no criminal records, but there was a jointly held real property. He actually volunteered this information upfront and said the house was yet to be sold (wasn't really a red flag to me because my ex kept our former house and I'm yet to get off the deed/mortgage 2 yrs post divorce).


My husband's, then boyfriend, engagement was broken up 3 months before we met. They had a home together that they had to sell. I would not commit to him until I saw everything for myself, we were seeing each other and they were seeing lawyers and had to meet up with lawyers to discuss division of assets, etc. I was not happy about them meeting up, but it is what it is. I should have dumped him then, lol. Don't kick yourself, just consider it a lesson learned, and move on. You can wait for an explanation, it's up to you if you choose to believe it or not. Make sure he gives you proof of everything and settle for nothing less. 

If you break up, cut your losses, and be sure to research just as you did, on the next potential mate. I think you did very well in this case, and it'll prepare you even better for next time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So neither of them have even filed? Finalized is one thing but not even pending is another story.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Just a question. Are you in an area where divorce records can be sealed, as in not available to the public ? I am not positive but I don't think someone could go to the courthouse and ask about my first divorce and get any information. My first divorce records were specifically stated by the judge to be sealed. My understanding was that meant it is basically invisible - no one can get the records/documentation of.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I'm on TAM to hear it all... the good with the bad. I'm not expecting anyone I date to be 100% perfect. Not everything is a dealbreaker to me.
> 
> And I'm not ever putting a guy I've known for 5 months on a pedestal.


Please don’t take my objective observations as criticism. I’m merely pointing out what I see, and what I see is a woman frustrated with some negative personality traits that her boyfriend has. To me it is clear the shine is off the penny. I am actually on your side in this. If I were in your shoes I would not put up with him. His actions are shady. I am just very direct in the way I say things.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I came on here to suggest he might be married and found others beat me to it, then I saw your post about no divorce filing. This doesn't surprise me, but I feel badly for you to have wasted your time on him.

When you went to his condo, did it look like anyone else, besides him, lived there? Is the condo the same property as the address of his joint property?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> OMG.Our Courthouse doesn't have any record of his divorce. All I had to do was drive 2 miles (WFH today), take the elevator up to 3rd floor, and talk to a clerk.
> 
> Cannot believe I fell for this crap. He specifically told me he was divorced (before the first date) and I believed it. I ask every guy what ended their last relationship...he said there was no infidelity, they grew apart, no intimacy, yadayada...etc.
> 
> ...


Have you ever been to his home? 

Does he have children from the marriage?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You had more than enough reasons to dump this man.
Now, you are buried in reasons!

Good times are good for a reason.

Life is short, more good times are coming.

Remember the good times you had together, bury the rest.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever been to his home?
> 
> Does he have children from the marriage?


Pull up to his house, say you're with local realtors, wondering if the couple living there is interested in selling.... .

Fun to see the look on his face. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> Maybe he's in the midst of a divorce, or just separated.


That's different from what he told me. This is horrible. He knew why my marriage ended...with serial cheater ex husband and all the lies. God, I feel so stupid!!!


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever been to his home?
> 
> Does he have children from the marriage?


His condo, tiny and very basic. We spent more time in my place. His wife kept the home as it waits to sell, or so he said. 

I stupidly thought we were kindred spirits... I lost almost everything to my ex and moved to a tiny condo with my two kids (very young adults now).


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever been to his home?
> 
> Does he have children from the marriage?


He has two boys...one is senior in high school. The other a sophomore in college.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Cynthia said:


> I came on here to suggest he might be married and found others beat me to it, then I saw your post about no divorce filing. This doesn't surprise me, but I feel badly for you to have wasted your time on him.
> 
> When you went to his condo, did it look like anyone else, besides him, lived there? Is the condo the same property as the address of his joint property?


No, the condo is different from the jointly held home. I'm such an idiot...this is painful. Now that I think of it probably a friend's condo for all I know. What do I know? My head is spinning.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Pull up to his house, say you're with local realtors, wondering if the couple living there is interested in selling.... .
> 
> Fun to see the look on his face. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


I love this...tempting. so tempting. Ha ha, I needed a good laugh. Thanks!


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> You had more than enough reasons to dump this man.
> Now, you are buried in reasons!
> 
> Good times are good for a reason.
> ...


 A total waste of 5 months. I liked him, a lot. He was really into community service, charitable stuff, volunteering, loved his mom and sister, excellent father, etc. He cared for people. He was magnificent...attentive, kind, generous, good listener, dynamite in the sac. God, on the first real date he actually helped the server clear the table (we were the last out, they were closing the restaurant). I often wondered if he were real. Didn't care much about the little annoyances.

God, was this all an act?? 

My only concern was the disappearing acts. We averaged twice a week. He often resurfaced exactly when he said he would.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> That's different from what he told me. This is horrible. He knew why my marriage ended...with serial cheater ex husband and all the lies. God, I feel so stupid!!!


It’s not your fault he lied. If he lied. But, I would highly encourage you to not ignore things that seem “off” in the beginning stages of the next relationship. If a guy can’t talk to you for a week or “disappears” that makes no sense. That doesn’t mean you need a clingy guy, but to not hear one word or receive one text for a week, from a guy you’re exclusive with, that’s a red flag.

If something doesn’t make sense, there’s a reason. 🤷‍♀️


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> He has two boys...one is senior in high school. The other a sophomore in college.


Have you ever met his sons and spent time with them?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> His condo, tiny and very basic. We spent more time in my place. His wife kept the home as it waits to sell, or so he said.
> 
> I stupidly thought we were kindred spirits... I lost almost everything to my ex and moved to a tiny condo with my two kids (very young adults now).


Years ago, I dated a guy who told me that he was divorced. He and I had dated in high school, so I thought I knew him. He lived in an apartment with some other guys. I did visit and hang out there.

I found out that he and she were getting a divorce at one point, but it was never finalized. He moved back in with her. He and his friends never told me. I stopped seeing him when I found this out. Then about 3 years later they did divorce. I verified that. Well, he called me and asked me to move back to where he lives and marry him. 😂 Oh yea. I just laughed and told him no.

People are just weird.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

In


2&out said:


> Just a question. Are you in an area where divorce records can be sealed, as in not available to the public ? I am not positive but I don't think someone could go to the courthouse and ask about my first divorce and get any information. My first divorce records were specifically stated by the judge to be sealed. My understanding was that meant it is basically invisible - no one can get the records/documentation of.


Honestly, I don't know. Interesting.

He's lived in the Washington D.C metro area all his life, I could look at the neighboring states for divorce records and all, but I'm exhausted. 

I could check, just hate to be caught in a vortex of more lies.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sierralyn20 said:


> A total waste of 5 months. I liked him, a lot. He was really into community service, charitable stuff, volunteering, loved his mom and sister, excellent father, etc. He cared for people. He was magnificent...attentive, kind, generous, good listener, dynamite in the sac. God, on the first real date he actually helped the server clear the table (we were the last out, they were closing the restaurant). I often wondered if he were real. Didn't care much about the little annoyances.
> 
> God, was this all an act??
> 
> My only concern was the disappearing acts. We averaged twice a week. He often resurfaced exactly when he said he would.


Did you ever meet his mom, father, sister?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> It’s not your fault he lied. If he lied. But, I would highly encourage you to not ignore things that seem “off” in the beginning stages of the next relationship. If a guy can’t talk to you for a week or “disappears” that makes no sense. That doesn’t mean you need a clingy guy, but to not hear one word or receive one text for a week, from a guy you’re exclusive with, that’s a red flag.
> 
> If something doesn’t make sense, there’s a reason. 🤷‍♀️


I see that now, but I've also been on dates with very possessive, clingy and needy guys, so this wasn't all bad from the beginning. He was available, attentive and we talked daily. Every night, too (unless he was hiding in the loo or garage when his wife is asleep). I'm totally confused.

Things started getting very intense, he said he was falling hard for me, then started with the disappearing and excuses.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Did you ever meet his mom, father, sister?


No, he was curious and kept asking to meet my kids on the second week. 
It was too soon for me. We put that on the back burner...no meeting kids/families until later when we're both comfortable.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

I guess that text goodbye message will have a little different tone to it now, huh?


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

The sad thing is, his dad ran off with another woman when he was 12. His mom was the primary caregiver to he and his sister. He said "That's why I could never cheat on my wife, despite 8 years of no intimacy. I'm principled like that."


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I guess that text goodbye message will have a little different tone to it now, huh?


 Oh no, there will not be a text. I'll wait until Tuesday when he reappears. Good thing I didn't send it yet!!!

I need to look him in the eye on Tuesday.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Oh no, there will not be a text. I'll wait until Tuesday when he reappears. Good thing I didn't send it yet!!!
> 
> I need to look him in the eye on Tuesday.


Bravo. That’s the right thing anyway. The text / walk away approach makes me uneasy, kind of ‘avoidant’ in a way. Stand strong and look him in the eye.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

So, you could be in the hospital and he wouldn’t know because he isn’t going to contact you until next week? 

Whether he’s officially divorced or not, there’s most likely another woman in his life. And this might be “her week.” 

Anyway, I’m sorry you’re going through this and hope you find closure and peace.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Years ago, I dated a guy who told me that he was divorced. He and I had dated in high school, so I thought I knew him. He lived in an apartment with some other guys. I did visit and hang out there.
> 
> I found out that he and she were getting a divorce at one point, but it was never finalized. He moved back in with her. He and his friends never told me. I stopped seeing him when I found this out. Then about 3 years later they did divorce. I verified that. Well, he called me and asked me to move back to where he lives and marry him. 😂 Oh yea. I just laughed and told him no.
> 
> People are just weird.


God, people are weird...what a nerve he had.
Maybe one day I'll be able to laugh again.

This is worse than my serial cheater ex... Being duped again. Jeez, do I have the word "stupid"written on my forehead??

Laters. I'm going to get a drink. Thanks everyone.
..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Sierralyn20
You don't have 'stupid' written on your forehead. People who do this sort of thing are just master liars and manipulators.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Sierralyn20 said:


> A total waste of 5 months. I liked him, a lot. He was really into community service, charitable stuff, volunteering, loved his mom and sister, excellent father, etc. He cared for people. He was magnificent...attentive, kind, generous, good listener, dynamite in the sac. God, on the first real date he actually helped the server clear the table (we were the last out, they were closing the restaurant). I often wondered if he were real. Didn't care much about the little annoyances.
> 
> God, was this all an act??
> 
> My only concern was the disappearing acts. We averaged twice a week. He often resurfaced exactly when he said he would.


Don't beat yourself up about this. 

Thank God you're finding out now and it's just been five months. It could've gotten much worse (example finding out a year from now).


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow. I'm sorry this is happening to you. 


EleGirl said:


> @Sierralyn20
> You don't have 'stupid' written on your forehead. People who do this sort of thing are just master liars and manipulators.


It's not your fault. This caliber of deceit only comes from an expert. It's hard to imagine that anyone would go to these lengths.


Sierralyn20 said:


> His condo, tiny and very basic. We spent more time in my place. His wife kept the home as it waits to sell, or so he said.
> 
> I stupidly thought we were kindred spirits... I lost almost everything to my ex and moved to a tiny condo with my two kids (very young adults now).


I was going to suggest you look to see if his house is actually for sale, but it's pointless. If he hasn't even filed for divorce, he is still living with his wife, in their house. Who knows what's going on with the condo. It might be a corporate place or it might belong to a friend, or... who knows. Likely, he was living a complete lie with you. There is nothing about him that you can believe. You were scammed by a pro.
You did more than most people would in terms of checking him out in the first place. He probably saw you as a challenge, thus the "intimidating" comment.
Once you catch your breath, it would be good for you to let his wife know what he's up to and get checked for STDs.
Be careful of this man. You don't actually know him. He is not at all who you thought he was. He is downright scary. Do not threaten him. It might be better if you simply tell him that you two aren't compatible and leave it at that. Absolutely don't tell him that you're going to tell his wife. When you do tell her, you might want to find a way to do it that doesn't link immediately back to you. He could be a psyopath. I know this seems wild, but what he's done is way out of the normal cheater script. He's at a whole other level.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


Ask him. It's a good relationship skill. Say. I asked you to go on a trip, why do I feel you have been distant. Please share. All Gotmann, 101.
You need to ask for what you want and why's.
How else you going to grow as a couple. 

You may have a more highong paying job or make more money. He may feel that he can't afford ever to take you on a trip: therefore he is our of your league. As a man, I would feel shame in this instance. It's a sign. You need to move to a lateral guy or find on two or three teirs above you. Be honest.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If it were me, knowing what you now know, I wouldn’t meet up with him next week. If he’s not officially divorced or full on married, either way he lied, and I just would break up by phone or text.

After what Cynthia posted, I get a scary vibe too.

No matter what he says, disappearing multiple times, sometimes a week at a time, doesn’t add up for a guy in an exclusive relationship.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Sierralyn20 said:


> That's different from what he told me. This is horrible. He knew why my marriage ended...with serial cheater ex husband and all the lies. God, I feel so stupid!!!





EleGirl said:


> @Sierralyn20
> You don't have 'stupid' written on your forehead. People who do this sort of thing are just master liars and manipulators.


And master liars and manipulators get a kick out of revictimizing someone. It makes this guy feel twice as good to know he got one over on someone who was alert to deception. And he feels superior to your ex while he's at it, for being better at it than he was.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

OP, how did the conversation go?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sierralyn20 said:


> Hi good men and women of TAM;
> 
> We've been together about 5 months with my boyfriend. He has a birthday coming up in two weeks. I must say, he's giving, generous, kind and sweet. We're both smitten.
> I travel twice a month for work. Usually for a night or two.
> ...


How the hell is this emasculating? 

EDIT: Ack 12 pages... sorry >.< ... 
EDIT2: Married man huh?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Sierralyn20 said:


> God, people are weird...what a nerve he had.
> Maybe one day I'll be able to laugh again.
> 
> This is worse than my serial cheater ex... Being duped again. Jeez, do I have the word "stupid"written on my forehead??
> ...


Except you weren't duped this time. It may have been 5 months but you didn't get married and get screwed over that way.

Sometimes life just manages to get a few hits in. Forgive yourself.


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## Sierralyn20 (Dec 4, 2020)

Exit37 said:


> OP, how did the conversation go?


He reappeared just like he said he would, and I agreed to go out for dinner. So we talked. Yes, he's still very married, separated but going through a divorce. 

He showed me the back and forth emails with his ex and their respective lawyers, including a few from the realtors prepping for the sale of the house.

He was apologetic for not being straight, he didn't want his ex to find out he was dating because the mediations are going so well. 
From the emails he showed me, it appears they're timing the divorce filing to when the youngest son graduates from high school next year.

He bought the coop apartment he lives in.

I wished him the best, and we went our separate ways. I just wish he'd told me all these earlier, I'm not adverse to dating while separated.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Sierralyn20 said:


> I am a take charge type of person, yes. He told me he loved this about me at the beginning.


That's one of those things men are trained to say they like but don't actually like. 

And yes, all that BS about charity work and community service was a whole load of nonsense. If a guy is wasting any of his time with Ukranian orphans or climate change refugees just pass him right on by.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

No, the trip invitation did not emasculate him. What was his response? Did he explain himself as to why he declined your invitation? Could he have seen your invitation as you feeling more serious about him and it scared him?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> No, the trip invitation did not emasculate him. What was his response? Did he explain himself as to why he declined your invitation? Could he have seen your invitation as you feeling more serious about him and it scared him?


He was married. Shocker, huh?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> He was married. Shocker, huh?


Not a shocker!!!


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