# An inexperienced infidelity counselor is worse than no counselor



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Hi all:

Last week I went to my first appoint for IC with a psychiatrist supposedly familiar with family counseling and PTSD. 

I think however this guy caused more damage to my psyche. I wish I had never gone. 

He spent the majority of the time telling me that my reconciliation did not work because I wanted transparency. 

He said that asking for a tracker, and that STBEH be home at the time he claim he would be and curtailing Boy's night's out, made my STBEH feel closed in. 

I explained, that STBEH does not now want a divorce though he frequently threatened one during our false R, if I did not get "past the affair"

He also told me that since the affair was 8 months ago, I should be healed by now from it.

I explained that in the months that followed up until a few months ago, there was trickle truth, and continued contact albeit minor contact, but contact nonetheless when no contact was sworn as was all other trickle truths sworn to have stopped.

STBEH confessed to none of these things, they were always discovered or outed by someone else.

Am I crazy or is he? 

I have no intention of keeping my second appointment with this psychiatrist on Friday, and will find another. 

Again, is he right? Should I have forgone all the transparency request?

Should I be healed by now?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

He is batsh** crazy in my honest opinion. I did not even verbally recommit to the marriage and attempt reconciling until a year after Dday. And we STILL have transparency almost 3 years later. Don't go back to him.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Hi all:
> 
> Last week I went to my first appoint for IC with a psychiatrist supposedly familiar with family counseling and PTSD.
> 
> ...


i find the wisdom on this board and very reasonable and I seriously doubt that I could tolerate a counsellor who advised anything that would conflict with it.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

You asked for WHAT? transparency?!?!

From your H?!?!?

How DARE you expect so much from someone who took vows with you...


(end sarcasm)

Sounds like you have another loser to get rid of.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Transparancy is key to healing from infidelity. Your therapist is wrong.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Hi all:
> 
> Last week I went to my first appoint for IC with a psychiatrist supposedly familiar with family counseling and PTSD.
> 
> ...


Umm... OK.... Can you pass this on to the psychiatrist, please?

*You stupid, stupid man! The love of her life, her soul mate drop-kicked her heart into a field filled with manure, then trampled said heart into said manure, whilst telling her it was all her fault. And you think she should be 'over it' by now? Damn you, sir! Damn you to Hell for your insensitivity and your temerity to claim to be able to proffer advice in relationships!*

Sara, does that work for you?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

****He said that asking for a tracker, *and that STBEH be home at the time he claim he would be *and curtailing Boy's night's out, made my STBEH feel closed in. ****

funny, a lot of people require that of their partners even when adultery isn't involved since many people are sticklers for punctuality.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Umm... OK.... Can you pass this on to the psychiatrist, please?
> 
> *You stupid, stupid man! The love of her life, her soul mate drop-kicked her heart into a field filled with manure, then trampled said heart into said manure, whilst telling her it was all her fault. And you think she should be 'over it' by now? Damn you, sir! Damn you to Hell for your insensitivity and your temerity to claim to be able to proffer advice in relationships!*
> 
> Sara, does that work for you?


Thanks Matt: 

I needed that.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

That has to be right up there with what my fWW's IC 
said to me "wow, you seem to still have a lot of anger inside of you."

Noooooooo.... Really?

How could that possibly be?


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## ltj7708 (Mar 7, 2012)

This is the thing I am most worried about when I start MC or IC... Definitely get a new counselor.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> You asked for WHAT? transparency?!?!
> 
> From your H?!?!?
> 
> ...



The whole time he was lecturing me about making STBEH feel closed in, I'm thinking this married guy, must be having an affair.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

ltj7708 said:


> This is the thing I am most worried about when I start MC or IC... Definitely get a new counselor.


It's difficult to find a good one in my area, but I won't be going back to this guy.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

And counselors are too damned expensive and arrogant to be wasting your time with.


I realise that they feel the need to maintain some authority in the sessions, but they never admit to being wrong. It might be nice if they could admit to some inexperience sometime.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> ****He said that asking for a tracker, *and that STBEH be home at the time he claim he would be *and curtailing Boy's night's out, made my STBEH feel closed in. ****
> 
> funny, a lot of people require that of their partners even when adultery isn't involved since many people are sticklers for punctuality.


I agree. An elderly happily long term married couple recently told me that. They mentioned that they never went to bars or on vacation without each other.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> That has to be right up there with what my fWW's IC
> said to me "wow, you seem to still have a lot of anger inside of you."
> 
> Noooooooo.... Really?
> ...


Oh, hang on that deserves a:

Well... Duhhh!!!moment, I think.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Transparancy is key to healing from infidelity. Your therapist is wrong.


I think so, too. How else was I to regain any semblance of trust.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

DawnD said:


> He is batsh** crazy in my honest opinion. I did not even verbally recommit to the marriage and attempt reconciling until a year after Dday. And we STILL have transparency almost 3 years later. Don't go back to him.


Thanks, Dawn, for your valued insight.


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## Seesaw (Jun 5, 2012)

Wrong therapist. Simple as that. Dump him. In fact, go dark on him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> The whole time he was lecturing me about making STBEH feel closed in, I'm thinking this married guy, must be having an affair.


Oh it's definately personal.

FWIW my EX bil is a counselor. Did I mention he cheated on my SIL (hubby's sister) for TWELVE YEARS!!!

Just because someone has the title "counselor" on their door doesn't mean they are any better than the people they claim to try to help.

Be aware. They are human just like us and if something feels 'off' or you aren't getting better RUN away. Run far far away.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> I think so, too. How else was I to regain any semblance of trust.


You could have planted a microchip in his brain........LMAO. Kidding, but somehow it sounded like a good idea to me once


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> That has to be right up there with what my fWW's IC
> said to me "wow, you seem to still have a lot of anger inside of you."
> 
> Noooooooo.... Really?
> ...



I also asked the doctor about triggers and how to squash them, and he looked at me with this patronizing smile and said:

"A trigger is just anger that is still locked up inside you."

I'm thinking, "well hellooooooooo. Yes it's anger I already know that. I need help dealing with it, Yo, do you have a degree in psychiatry?"

=


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> I also asked the doctor about triggers and how to squash them, and he looked at me with this patronizing smile and said:
> 
> "A trigger is just anger that is still locked up inside you."
> 
> ...


he will probably tell you the female orgasm is a myth next.....


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He is definitely SO fired. We've seen on this board quite a few times, the results of having went to bad counselors. All the bad ones end up doing is validating the WSs affair and telling the BS to rug sweep it. This is yet another bad counselor.

iheartlife found a great counselor, one that held her BSs feet to the fire and held him accountable, while encouraging her to monitor him so that she could begin to feel trust again. That's one of the reasons they are in R and doing well, having a good counselor.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

DawnD said:


> You could have planted a microchip in his brain........LMAO. Kidding, but somehow it sounded like a good idea to me once


You know they do have that tracking chip they put inside dogs in case they get lost..............................................


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> You know they do have that tracking chip they put inside dogs in case they get lost..............................................


woof woof baby hahahahahaha:rofl:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> He is definitely SO fired. We've seen on this board quite a few times, the results of having went to bad counselors. All the bad ones end up doing is validating the WSs affair and telling the BS to rug sweep it. This is yet another bad counselor.
> 
> iheartlife found a great counselor, one that held her BSs feet to the fire and held him accountable, while encouraging her to monitor him so that she could begin to feel trust again. That's one of the reasons they are in R and doing well, having a good counselor.


Thanks, LM, I wish I could find a good one. 

I live in a small town and there aren't too many to begin with. I am pretty far from a major city.

but you're right: "he's so fired" Done.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Seesaw said:


> Wrong therapist. Simple as that. Dump him. In fact, go dark on him!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Oh it's definately personal.
> 
> FWIW my EX bil is a counselor. Did I mention he cheated on my SIL (hubby's sister) for TWELVE YEARS!!!
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> And counselors are too damned expensive and arrogant to be wasting your time with.
> 
> 
> I realise that they feel the need to maintain some authority in the sessions, but they never admit to being wrong. It might be nice if they could admit to some inexperience sometime.


Yes, based on the books about infidelity I read, this guy obviously has no experience treating it.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> The whole time he was lecturing me about making STBEH feel closed in, I'm thinking this married guy, must be having an affair.


Sadly enough, I was going to suggest the same thing... can't make it up sometimes.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I couldn't agree more.


He also had other ahem....problems. This is a public board so don't want to go there. Lets just say it's BAD. I feel sorry for the people he's still treating. They have no idea how much of a train wreck his personal life is.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> And counselors are too damned expensive and arrogant to be wasting your time with.
> 
> 
> I realise that they feel the need to maintain some authority in the sessions, but they never admit to being wrong. It might be nice if they could admit to some inexperience sometime.


True, I can't believe I forked over $300 for a 45 minute session for that advice. Arrrrrggggggggg!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> True, I can't believe I forked over $300 for a 45 minute session for that advice. Arrrrrggggggggg!


Whoa, I remember them being about $95 for the special "therapist" hour. guess it's been that long.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> True, I can't believe I forked over $300 for a 45 minute session for that advice. Arrrrrggggggggg!


Microchip would have been cheaper.........petsmart, $40


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> True, I can't believe I forked over $300 for a 45 minute session for that advice. Arrrrrggggggggg!


What a rip off. I pay $100 an hour for my therapy. And I get good advice from her.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Hi all:
> 
> Last week I went to my first appoint for IC with a psychiatrist supposedly familiar with family counseling and PTSD.
> 
> ...


When I read the title of your thread the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh yeah!"

You not only should have demanded transparency and an end to boys night out but if you had continued to work on R it should have remained that way. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is no privacy in a marriage. Every decision each of you makes affects the other, sometimes in way we could never possibly anticipate. Therefore privacy is like a hidden landmine just waiting to go off when stepped on.

Get over it in 8 months?! You should have asked him why the recovery from a massive betrayal should be quicker than the honeymoon period. This counselor is awful. Unfortunately there are many like him.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I have what I’d call ‘temporary rules of reconciliation’. And yes, they were harsh. They aren’t boundaries or rules that a healthy relationship should have... Like a gps... lol. But they are very much needed when your recent experiences were lies and deceit (also not a ‘normal trait’ of a healthy relationship)... And projecting a ‘you should be healed by...’ baloney babble shows he’s an idiot. “Common” is you don’t heal from infidelity and divorce; Sort of a I’ll never get over this thing. 

Run... find someone new.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> True, I can't believe I forked over $300 for a 45 minute session for that advice. Arrrrrggggggggg!


Geesh, for that kind of money you could have afforded a professional that would have at least made you feel good.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Get your head out of the gutter! I was talking about a massage at a nice spa!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I also asked the doctor about triggers and how to squash them, and he looked at me with this patronizing smile and said:
> 
> "A trigger is just anger that is still locked up inside you."
> 
> ...


Surely psychology would be a better subject than psychiatry to use as the basis for counselling?

Also, he is full of s**t! I had a trigger the other evening. Not caused by anger but caused by guilt and remorse from something I did wrong in the past.

So triggers are not always as a result of anger.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

He's a moron, hope you fired him


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Fire that quack and get a new one. Perhaps before you agree to meet and pay you could interview them on their philosophy , such as are they regs weepers, hurry up and get over it, and boys will be boys what's your problem type.

Seriously, you should have asked him if he's pro marriage or pro cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Jesus.

Never see that guy ever, ever again.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My best friend is a marriage and family therapist. She's mentioned something to me that my Dad told me long ago. The psychology and counseling related courses in universities are usually a big draw for people with issues. Some are there to learn how to help themselves, some are there to learn how to help others, and some are just there because they know there's good money in private practice. No one should be surprised that there are plenty of really bad therapists out there. But I'm really sorry you found one of the bad ones. 

FWIW, the first guy we saw for marriage counseling spent most of our sessions trying to help me understand that telling my husband that I expected him not to date another woman while married to me was controlling and irrational. It was apparently okay for me to hold that view, but _telling_ my husband that I was not okay with his EA was controlling. Idiot.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Well, it just so happens that some guys get these degrees but actually don't have the emotional intelligence to do this for a living. This is one such case. 



> He spent the majority of the time telling me that my reconciliation did not work because I wanted transparency.


Therapist being Emotionally retarded...1



> He said that asking for a tracker, and that STBEH be home at the time he claim he would be and curtailing Boy's night's out, made my STBEH feel closed in.


Therapist being Emotionally retarded...2



> He also told me that since the affair was 8 months ago, I should be healed by now from it.


Therapist being Emotionally retarded...3


Yeah, full confirmation. This guy should have a disclaimer hanging somewhere.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> The whole time he was lecturing me about making STBEH feel closed in, I'm thinking this married guy, must be having an affair.


Gonna read thru the whole tread, but my first thought, after reading your first post was this EXACTLY! He is likely seeing someone on the side and knows his wife would be doing the exact same damn thing in your shoes...you scared him! LOL

Definitely get a new counselor.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Just fire his ass.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

To all who responded to this thread. 

Thank you so much. 

Your responses helped me more than anything this supposedly trained psychiatrist said or advised. 

I really actually feel good now. 

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions, humor an emotional support. 

Each post was worth more than the $300 I paid the shrink.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

So when are you gonna pay us then ?


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

anonymouskitty said:


> So when are you gonna pay us then ?


 I will take it all on a Petsmart gift card please....uppy:uppy:uppy:


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

AHH that hurts


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

DawnD said:


> I will take it all on a Petsmart gift card please....uppy:uppy:uppy:


I know, you're gonna' buy that pet tracker. :rofl:


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> I know, you're gonna' buy that pet tracker. :rofl:


As fast as I possibly can!:lol:


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

oh god, remind me never to open my bloody mouth again


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Don't feel left out anonymouskitty, we will need someone to test the first chip out, so........you know............


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Hey Sara, sorry to hear that. Yet another bad psychologist/psychiatrist story. This guy is a shocker. But it's not that uncommon.

I know the profession is a very subjective one, but how do they get it so wrong. In many cases, they make matters worse. In any profession, whether it be Doctor or motor mechanic, the first critical step is a good diagnosis. Then an appropriate treatment. These guys don't seem to diagnose anything. Just preach MC 101 straight out of their antiquated bookshelf.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

What's also bad is when a newly betrayed comes to the forum and has one of those bad counselors that tell them to rug sweep the affair and win back their WS. I remember a few of those.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> What's also bad is when a newly betrayed comes to the forum and has one of those bad counselors that tell them to rug sweep the affair and win back their WS. I remember a few of those.


Yeah, struggling4ever comes to mind. I felt so bad for him. 7 years in limbo because the MC had them rugsweep her affair.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara, what are trying to sort out at the moment. Or are you just looking for someone in real life to hash out your current issues?

I realise that you can only depend on friends so much. They might get tired of hearing the same story over and over again.

I think turning over thoughts paired with the facts (whatever you can obtain) is very helpful. So a therapist who says why bother with the details would dismissed immediately in my book. That book Not Just Friends definitely advocated satisfying the BS's need for information.

But I'm sure of you took that book into your next session he would dismiss, because he's the boss and he's going to maintain authority with his patients instead of sharing it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Sara, what are trying to sort out at the moment. Or are you just looking for someone in real life to hash out your current issues?
> 
> I realise that you can only depend on friends so much. They might get tired of hearing the same story over and over again.
> 
> ...


I am trying to cope with the PTSD. This particular psychiatrist didn't totally agree that there is such a thing as post infidelity PTSD.

But I have read that the more trusting and more blindsided the spouse, the more likely PTSD is to occur. 

So you are right, this psychiatrist, immediately dismissed any research I proffered regarding post infidelity PTSD.

I had several Ddays, One only a few months back. All blindsided me. I hadn't a clue. I thought my spouse was a good and trustful person. In the months of his affair, I actually told friends that about him. Now I wonder if they were trying to clue me in.

I do not talk to friends because they gossip. I am not a gossip. I just listen. But over the years, I have seen how my friends gossip about people we know. It's not malicious gossip, but gossip nonetheless.

I think people gossip to me because I can keep a secret and I think they know this. Still, I don't want to be the topic of their next gossip fest.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> I am trying to cope with the PTSD. This particular psychiatrist didn't totally agree that there is such a thing as post infidelity PTSD.
> 
> But I have read that the more trusting and more blindsided the spouse, the more likely PTSD is to occur.
> 
> So you are right, this psychiatrist, immediately dismissed any research I proffered regarding post infidelity PTSD.


Been around a guy who had been to war and clearly has PTSD (jungle fight in a colonial war) and guys that were cheated on. The behavior is the same, only a different cause. They can't sleep properly, get triggered by not associated stuff (war guy was triggered by all helicopters and all sorts of loud noises, cheated on dudes by simple conversations on whatever subject).

I distinctly remember a highschool bud of mine getting this weird face when we were picking ice-creams and i later got to know that it was because i was asking strawberry, the favorite flavor of his cheating girlfriend. 

Same phenomena, different cause and degree.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Been around a guy who had been to war and clearly has PTSD (jungle fight in a colonial war) and guys that were cheated on. The behavior is the same, only a different cause. They can't sleep properly, get triggered by not associated stuff (war guy was triggered by all helicopters and all sorts of loud noises, cheated on dudes by simple conversations on whatever subject).
> 
> I distinctly remember a highschool bud of mine getting this weird face when we were picking ice-creams and i later got to know that it was because i was asking strawberry, the favorite flavor of his cheating girlfriend.
> 
> Same phenomena, different cause and degree.


Thanks, Costa, I agree and IMO, this psychiatrist needs to go back to school to upgrade his skills to the 21st century. 

Cheating is on the rise, and their have been more studies lately examining the effect not the BS. 

One chaplain here who deals with PTSD and was cheated on by his wife, noted that an EA/PA is like a rape, whether the BS is male or female. 

It takes away your dignity and trust and ability to judge other people. 

It then isn't a stretch to see that a rape is a trauma that causes PTSD as is an infidelity.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Sara8 said:


> It then isn't a stretch to see that a rape is a trauma that causes PTSD as is an infidelity.


And you'd never ask a rape victim to forgive their rapist, much less work on intimacy, communication and 'quality time' with them... Adultery is one screwed up mess to deal with.....


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I have ptsd and think more people have it than most realize. All it takes is ONE good trauma and you're at risk.

And yes to me being cheated on by someone you thought had your best interest at heart qualifies as a traumatic event. I'm not saying every BS has ptsd I'm saying the risk is there that's all.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Racer said:


> And you'd never ask a rape victim to forgive their rapist, much less work on intimacy, communication and 'quality time' with them... Adultery is one screwed up mess to deal with.....


Excellent point.

And that is why it is sad that typically it is the BS doing more work to try to repair or save the marriage.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I have ptsd and think more people have it than most realize. All it takes is ONE good trauma and you're at risk.
> 
> And yes to me being cheated on by someone you thought had your best interest at heart qualifies as a traumatic event. I'm not saying every BS has ptsd I'm saying the risk is there that's all.


I agree. The risk is there. Some people can bounce back from a betrayal but others due to various life circumstances, upbringing, and previous life traumas may be more vulnerable to it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Incidentally, when my wife cheated on me? She was using one of her -hard earned- PhDs to work as a psychologist.

Yes, I know, I know...


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