# An Observation



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I had an interesting chat with my wife about sex. We were watching something on TV and got to talking about sex frequency. I told her that many (some) married men and women our age actually want to have sex on a daily basis. She was absolutely shocked by this and said "No, if they want sex everyday they are a sex addict!"

She actually believed this. It's amazing to me that she would think having sex daily, in a marriage no less, is an "addiction"

I myself at 53 could not have sex with my wife daily. It would wear me out! However, just because a married couple wants sex daily or twice a day does NOT mean they have an addiction.

Where do people get this crazy shiit information?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Inability to imagine a world beyond their experience.

It happens here in spades every day.


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Inability to imagine a world beyond their experience.
> 
> It happens here in spades every day.


Amen!


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Even if you are an addict, is that a problem?

I drink caffeine every morning, I see nothing wrong with it.

The way I like address this conversion, is saying something like. Everyday people spend a few hours of leisure time doing something they enjoy. Could be watching TV, reading, Internet or playing video games.

But having sex takes what at most 15 to 20 minutes. Thats less time then a stupid TV show.

But people have their priorities it seems. Id feel cheated though if she couldn't fit in 15 minutes.

In my house, I just put the show on pause. Tell her it will still be there when we are done.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It's amazing the things we all take for granted. A basic understanding of what our spouse thinks and feels on any given subject is one such thing.

But, isn't it fun to find there are still things about your spouse that surprise you?

Time to start asking the "getting to know you" questions all over again.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Inability to imagine a world beyond their experience.
> 
> It happens here in spades every day.


That is very sad. I am trying to educate my wife on the subject. I tell her often of threads on this forum (without divulging the forum). For example, she was also shocked that there are some women out there that want sex more often than men in marriage. 

I guess all we can do is try to educate and hopefully the other will try to listen and understand.

I know I'm learning stuff on here every single day.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hahaha! Hahaha! Mrs. Conan is 55 and molests me almost every day. I am 44 and still desire 3-4 times a day. I may well be addicted but who the hell cares!?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

It is just their way of justifying their control. You just cannot allow it, and you have to paint a picture of what they are doing.

Iv been thru crap like this before. At times you just say fine go marry the damn TV, and im going out. Thats when they start coming around.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UMP said:


> That is very sad. I am trying to educate my wife on the subject. I tell her often of threads on this forum (without divulging the forum). For example, she was also shocked that there are some women out there that want sex more often than men in marriage.
> 
> I guess all we can do is try to educate and hopefully the other will try to listen and understand.
> 
> I know I'm learning stuff on here every single day.


Load up your iPhone with a half-dozen Savage Love podcasts and play them in the car the next time you have a 30 minute trip somewhere.

If that doesn't open her eyes a little to the world out there, nothing will. But be warned - it may not change her attitudes. Having information and incorporating new information into your worldview are two very different things. When it comes to sex, a lot of people reroute auxiliary power to the forward shields.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Hahaha! Hahaha! Mrs. Conan is 55 and molests me almost every day. I am 44 and still desire 3-4 times a day. I may well be addicted but who the hell cares!?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's my point. Sex in marriage, no matter how frequent, does not meet the definition of "addiction." (IMO) Addiction has a negative context attached to it. Agreed upon sex in marriage (no matter how frequent) should have a ZERO negative connotation.
The part that gets me is placing a negative on a positive (sex).

Sex seems to be one of the only truly good things in marriage that somehow ends up being a negative when one spouse wants it more than the other.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't recall. Was your wife raised religious?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*They'll largely believe in any premise that they can find that will speak in behalf of them "not having sex."

And if the if the factual info says that married sex is that much more prevalent than they believe, then they'll either label all of those normal people as "sex addicts, or they'll make anything up, believing it as gospel, just to keep from participating"in the sex act themselves!

Why they don't want to feel sexual pleasure sure beats the hell out me!*


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *They'll largely believe in any premise that they can find that will speak in behalf of them "not having sex."
> *


Which is precisely the same thing those of us in the pro-sex crowd do for our part. 

The ol' "but everyone ELSE is doing this" argument is a complete non-starter from the get-go for any marriage, regardless of the position you're taking.


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Because they are not in the mood for whatever the reason. But if im not in the mood, and my wife is giving me the signs that she is interested. I would not deny her. Unless I was puking or something.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *They'll largely believe any premise that they will speak in behalf of "not having sex."
> 
> And if the if the factual info says that married sex is that much more prevalent than they believe, then they'll either label all of those normal people as "sex addicts, or they'll make anything up, believing it as gospel, just to keep from participating"in the sex act themselves!
> 
> Why they don't want to feel sexual pleasure sure beats the hell out me!*


I think there is much fear in the process of the LD partner letting go. Good sex is so raw and barrier free. I guess some people would rather destroy a marriage than let go. However, I have found that once the LD partner does let go a bit and you are able to make it enjoyable for them, they come back for more.

If you think about it, sex (done right) is opening up your soul fully to another person. Not only that, but you are showing a part of yourself that you have perhaps NEVER EVER shown to another person. That is a frightening prospect if you think about it. Add to that all the baggage and resentment built up because of inevitable screw ups along the way and it becomes even more difficult to open up.

My cure for the fear is to simply jump in and enjoy. I wish everyone would at least try because it's good place to be.

Try to think of it this way. Let's make sex analogous to bungee jumping. To some people sex is probably that intimidating. It would take a bunch to get me to jump off of a bridge with a cord attached to my ankles. Perhaps if we HD folks can look at it from a different angle, maybe we can understand the problem better.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Which is precisely the same thing those of us in the pro-sex crowd do for our part.
> 
> The ol' "but everyone ELSE is doing this" argument is a complete non-starter from the get-go for any marriage, regardless of the position you're taking.


Cletus, must you consistently be philosophically so correct? Can't you just sometimes say "yeah, you're right!"


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Which is precisely the same thing those of us in the pro-sex crowd do for our part.
> 
> The ol' "but everyone ELSE is doing this" argument is a complete non-starter from the get-go for any marriage, regardless of the position you're taking.


I prefer the "let me show you how wonderful this can be" argument. It's taken years, but I'm making headway. However, the "back door" has been closed for 23 years. I still won't give up though


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UMP said:


> Try to think of it this way. Let's make sex analogous to bungee jumping. To some people sex is probably that intimidating. It would take a bunch to get me to jump off of a bridge with a cord attached to my ankles. Perhaps if we HD folks can look at it from a different angle, maybe we can understand the problem better.


So you're standing on the bridge, with the cord wrapped around your ankles because someone said it would be fun, but you haven't ginned up the courage to actually jump yet. You're not sure.

Then your spouse goes and pushes you off the bridge from behind. After wetting yourself and getting hauled back up to the top, you can either plant a big sloppy kiss on her or punch her in the face. Both reactions could be appropriate, depending on your nature.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Our sexual drives are by definition not rational. We don't go to school and learn about desire; it just exists. Men and women want sex for the same ultimate reason, to pass our selfish genes on. However, it is clear that sex in the realm of transaction is a market place with build in supply and demand conflict.

Machiavelli was speaking the truth about most women being attracted to 20 percent of men. The other 80 percent, well some of them never or hardly ever get laid. Women take single men who have earning ability but are not especially attractive/self confident and give them pvssy. A nerdy beta guy who is having sex grows an ego overnight. However, in many relationships the woman restricts sex and cuts him down. He then becomes unattractive because his self confidence is gone.

Men generally cannot make a living at prostitution. Women can sell sex. The idea of employing sex to survive, for example, a country loses a war and some women sleep with the enemy for food, security, status, is instinctual. Men don't have the option. The conquerer has come to reduce the competing males reproduction.

It is not PC to talk about sexual behavior as selfish gene driven because love is a beautiful emotion. Your wife doesn't see daily sex as having any point. She would undoubtedly find it natural for people to have more sex if it were a matter of survival. But she has reached a stage in life were reproduction is finished and food is always behind the fridge door.

I'll bet anything that among the hunter gatherers women had low sex drives when they had missed a few meals. When the tribe were gorging on mastodon or cave bear steaks, sex followed.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Cletus, must you consistently be philosophically so correct? Can't you just sometimes say "yeah, you're right!"


And remove the flimsy underpinnings of my pseudo-successful marriage? Not bloody likely!

Some people feel about uninhibited sex the way I feel about Brussels sprouts. Distributions have tails - it's inevitable. It's frustrating to be with one of these people, but they're no more broken (when it doesn't stem from some underlying pathology) than I am for disliking cruciferous vegetables. I might as well gnash my teeth over people with an IQ below 80. 

Or so I keep telling myself when I'm not thinking "Yeah, you're right!"


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Women take single men who have earning ability but are not especially attractive/self confident and give them pvssy. A nerdy beta guy who is having sex grows an ego overnight.


You know I'm standing right here and can hear you, right?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> You know I'm standing right here and can hear you, right?


&#55357;&#56836;&#55357;&#56836;&#55357;&#56885;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56840;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

UMP said:


> I had an interesting chat with my wife about sex. We were watching something on TV and got to talking about sex frequency. I told her that many (some) married men and women our age actually want to have sex on a daily basis. She was absolutely shocked by this and said "No, if they want sex everyday they are a sex addict!"
> 
> She actually believed this. It's amazing to me that she would think having sex daily, in a marriage no less, is an "addiction"
> 
> ...


I am 55 and could have sex 2-3 times a day. I think I am very normal.... :rofl:


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## TakenforGranted (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm the one in my marriage that wants to have sex twice a day. My husband assures me there's more to a marriage than Sex since he thinks I have high demands that can't be met. Haha i know my marriage is rock solid 4 years straight of no Sex, (he denied me, alot) can either make or break any relationship


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Hahaha! Hahaha! Mrs. Conan is 55 and molests me almost every day. I am 44 and still desire 3-4 times a day. I may well be addicted but who the hell cares!?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you ARE addicted and who the hell cares???

I'm with ump. couldn't do it every day. I don't think even as a young whippersnapper I would have wanted to. Well, maybe.

My wife talks about the day we will retire and we can 'do it every day'. Yikes!

But heck, my hats off to those that do....


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Which is precisely the same thing those of us in the pro-sex crowd do for our part.
> 
> The ol' "but everyone ELSE is doing this" argument is a complete non-starter from the get-go for any marriage, regardless of the position you're taking.


_Argumentum ad populum_ is definitely a logical fallacy, but we both know that a failed attempt at proving a proposition is not the same as disproof. 

Of course, given the fact that you can't argue someone into feeling amorous, the whole discussion is probably academic anyway...


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Our sexual drives are by definition not rational. We don't go to school and learn about desire; it just exists. Men and women want sex for the same ultimate reason, to pass our selfish genes on. However, it is clear that sex in the realm of transaction is a market place with build in supply and demand conflict.
> 
> Machiavelli was speaking the truth about most women being attracted to 20 percent of men. The other 80 percent, well some of them never or hardly ever get laid. Women take single men who have earning ability but are not especially attractive/self confident and give them pvssy. A nerdy beta guy who is having sex grows an ego overnight. However, in many relationships the woman restricts sex and cuts him down. He then becomes unattractive because his self confidence is gone.
> 
> ...


Very, very interesting!
However, from a mans perspective, outside of procreation, why can't some married women have sex for sex sake? For fun?
Do not female orgasms feel good? Is a good female orgasm with a male not better than a self induced female orgasm?
I understand all that you've said, but in todays modern times, what is it about sex that makes a woman decide to dole it out slowly or not at all?
I figured it was because I was not good at it. I will tell you this. In the last 2 years I am fc$king my wife like nothing I have ever done in the past. In fact, if I lose my job I'll probably apply for the porn industry
She is coming back for more. She can't help herself :smthumbup: Or maybe she comes back because she's afraid I'll do it with someone else? I don't know. I like to think it's because I'm a hell of a lot better than I used to be, by a mile.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> And remove the flimsy underpinnings of my pseudo-successful marriage? Not bloody likely!
> 
> Some people feel about uninhibited sex the way I feel about Brussels sprouts. Distributions have tails - it's inevitable. It's frustrating to be with one of these people, but they're no more broken (when it doesn't stem from some underlying pathology) than I am for disliking cruciferous vegetables. I might as well gnash my teeth over people with an IQ below 80.
> 
> Or so I keep telling myself when I'm not thinking "Yeah, you're right!"


Ok, then why are we all here trying go figure out a way to convince our significant others to enjoy brussel sprouts? I honestly feel that I have succeeded to some degree and hope to continue the progress.
It's not impossible, even for you.
I honestly believe that.

Stupidity has it's benefits.


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Because Women use it for control and leverage. In her mind if she creates a sex ration. She can get you to do things she wants.

Then if we allow it to happen, she wins. She has sex on her schedule.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I put brussel sprouts on the table and he will eat them. Put sex on the table he goes on a diet. Maybe I need to cover myself in cruciferous vegetables from now on.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Hacker said:


> Because Women use it for control and leverage. In her mind if she creates a sex ration. She can get you to do things she wants.
> 
> Then if we allow it to happen, she wins. She has sex on her schedule.


It is doubly self defeating because if you allow this she will lose respect for you and want you even less.


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## Hacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Exactly. But on the positive side, if you dont allow it. Then you will have even more sex.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Hacker said:


> Exactly. But on the positive side, if you dont allow it. Then you will have even more sex.


Just don't wait too long or her geriatric vagina may no longer work at a reasonable level of frequency


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Our sexual drives are by definition not rational. We don't go to school and learn about desire; it just exists. *Men and women want sex for the same ultimate reason, to pass our selfish genes on.* However, it is clear that sex in the realm of transaction is a market place with build in supply and demand conflict.....................
> 
> *Not really. People have sex because it feels good, is bonding and it is fun. I desire sex more post child bearing years, sex has nothing at all to do with procreation for me and many, many, many women.*
> 
> ...


OP why at your age are you surprised at your wifes comments? Have you not had conversations like that in the past, did you not already know he POV?

Mr H is 54, I am 48, we have sex daily at a minimum. We have a very high level of quality and quantity. We have a lot of conversation about our sex life and make it a priority to check in with each other.
Recently in one of our conversations we both agreed we are 10/10 happy with our sex life.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

UMP said:


> That is very sad. I am trying to educate my wife on the subject. I tell her often of threads on this forum (without divulging the forum). *For example, she was also shocked that there are some women out there that want sex more often than men in marriage. *
> 
> I guess all we can do is try to educate and hopefully the other will try to listen and understand.
> 
> I know I'm learning stuff on here every single day.


I'm one of those women. I would love to have sex more often, to be desired, but it doesn't really happen. As the the book the Sex Starved Wife said, "it's America's best kept secret" about men being LD as well. It's rarely talked about and there is such shame around the topic. Sad. 

Humans and only a couple other animals are the only ones who have sex for fun, beyond procreation. I'm glad it's that way, too.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

With all the "tolerance" society is throwing at us these days, I happened to see a documentary on people living a transgendered lifestyle. There was a woman that had become a man (beard and all). The one thing that really made me laugh was that she said that when she finally became a man that he finally grasped the fact that women DO NOT UNDERSTAND male hormones. He was like, "there is just no comparison!"

I thought to myself, "Ha! The first woman to ever understand us guys, but too bad she is a dude now..."


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

There is more to sex than biology and passing the genes. We finally learning now that people in after-reproductive age enjoy sex even more, and one of the reasons is no more worries about pregnancy.

It takes soul and body I guess.


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## LuvIsTuff (Feb 20, 2015)

Hacker said:


> Even if you are an addict, is that a problem?
> 
> I drink caffeine every morning, I see nothing wrong with it.
> 
> ...


15-20 minutes? I could have sex twice in that amount of time. #sadbuttrue


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening UMP
Have you pointed her at other forums? Someplace you haven't posted but where similar issues are discussed. (maybe womenshealth.com)




UMP said:


> That is very sad. I am trying to educate my wife on the subject. I tell her often of threads on this forum (without divulging the forum). For example, she was also shocked that there are some women out there that want sex more often than men in marriage.
> 
> I guess all we can do is try to educate and hopefully the other will try to listen and understand.
> 
> I know I'm learning stuff on here every single day.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening UMP
in my case, what I do or don't do has almost no effect on how often (or rarely actually) my wife wants sex. She also believes that normal couples only rarely have sex. 




UMP said:


> It is doubly self defeating because if you allow this she will lose respect for you and want you even less.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

UMP said:


> Very, very interesting!
> However, from a mans perspective, outside of procreation, why can't some married women have sex for sex sake? For fun?
> Do not female orgasms feel good? Is a good female orgasm with a male not better than a self induced female orgasm?
> I understand all that you've said, but in todays modern times, what is it about sex that makes a woman decide to dole it out slowly or not at all?
> ...


Of course women experience pleasure. Some much more than men, since they are multi-orgasmic and women's orgasms last longer than men's. And women cry out and moan with pleasure just from penetration. There are women who have trouble getting there.

Also, the pattern of sex is clear. Women who have an orgasm during intercourse keep going, sometimes to climax again. 

Some women are sexually dissatisfied with their partners. It's not only about finding a provider.

Natural selection is also about variation. The more variation the greater the rate of survival.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Originally Posted by LongWalk View Post
Our sexual drives are by definition not rational. We don't go to school and learn about desire; it just exists. Men and women want sex for the same ultimate reason, to pass our selfish genes on. However, it is clear that sex in the realm of transaction is a market place with build in supply and demand conflict.....................

Holland replied:


> Not really. People have sex because it feels good, is bonding and it is fun. I desire sex more post child bearing years, sex has nothing at all to do with procreation for me and many, many, many women.


_It is a transaction. People exchange and share giving pleasure. Sex that is only pleasure for one side doesn't last. The relationship generally ends._

Men generally cannot make a living at prostitution. Women can sell sex. The idea of employing sex to survive, for example, a country loses a war and some women sleep with the enemy for food, security, .....................



> Men can and do sell sex, it is nothing new.


_Where are all the men selling sex to women? Some African guys on the beach banging middle age women for money. But this is a small phenomenon relative to female prostitution. Probably the largest group of male prostitutes are selling homosexual men._


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