# Advice needed - wife and I not communicating very well



## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

Help! It seems that no matter the topic, big small or in between, my wife and I will often get to a point in the discussion where it devolves to just arguing. When that happens, then all the bad sh*t from years past comes flooding out. Things are said, feelings get hurt and nothing is accomplished. We've going to therapy for a year or so because of an affair on my part, which I think that still factors in on her perspective of me. I get to a point in the conversation where I sense it's going off the rails and I'll try to politely end it or put it on hold until we're both more calm- something I learned in therapy. Where I'm lost is that my wife won't respect that request, she'll keep going and so I'll ask again, nicely, if we can talk about this later when we're both less emotional. She'll keep going, and we'll repeat this pattern a couple more time - after which I become upset and say hurtful things, which is what I wanted to avoid doing. I've tried walking out of the room - she'll follow me. I've tried just being quiet, like last night, and she kept going FOR 30 MINUTES on her own. She has told me that she doesn't like to leave things unresolved overnight, but when the discussion devolves it becomes pointless. 

What am I missing?


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

bpdcfan said:


> Help! It seems that no matter the topic, big small or in between, my wife and I will often get to a point in the discussion where it devolves to just arguing. When that happens, then all the bad sh*t from years past comes flooding out. Things are said, feelings get hurt and nothing is accomplished. We've going to therapy for a year or so because of an affair on my part, which I think that still factors in on her perspective of me. I get to a point in the conversation where I sense it's going off the rails and I'll try to politely end it or put it on hold until we're both more calm- something I learned in therapy. Where I'm lost is that my wife won't respect that request, she'll keep going and so I'll ask again, nicely, if we can talk about this later when we're both less emotional. She'll keep going, and we'll repeat this pattern a couple more time - after which I become upset and say hurtful things, which is what I wanted to avoid doing. I've tried walking out of the room - she'll follow me. I've tried just being quiet, like last night, and she kept going FOR 30 MINUTES on her own. She has told me that she doesn't like to leave things unresolved overnight, but when the discussion devolves it becomes pointless.
> 
> What am I missing?


How is she doing in the MC overall? Sounds like she is not taking it to heart, that she simply wants to keep punishing you for the PA in the past. Just a year? Since the PA or was that further back? Have you mentioned this to the MC? If not I think you should, you're paying all that money to have him/her help guide you to problem resolution... What you're missing is that she is P.O.'d and will harbor a grudge for a very long time. Obviously, because she digs up crap that you did in a past life to throw into an argument. (A little humor to slightly lighten the mood.)


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Wow, your story sounds exactly like mine. You are just like me and your wife is just like mine. 

Next time, let your wife finish. Learn to be QUIET and just listen. Let her talk until she is done. You will be a lot happier. 

Oh, did I tell you to let her talk it out until she is done?

Learn to keep your mouth shut . Don't become upset and say hurtful things. She wants you to listen and acknowledge what she is saying, even if and when she says it twice.

Try this and you will be amazed at the different. I doubt you can pull it off, but at least try.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> Help! It seems that no matter the topic, big small or in between, my wife and I will often get to a point in the discussion where it devolves to just arguing. When that happens, then all the bad sh*t from years past comes flooding out. Things are said, feelings get hurt and nothing is accomplished. *We've going to therapy for a year or so because of an affair on my part, which I think that still factors in on her perspective of me. *I get to a point in the conversation where I sense it's going off the rails and I'll try to politely end it or put it on hold until we're both more calm- something I learned in therapy. Where I'm lost is that my wife won't respect that request, she'll keep going and so I'll ask again, nicely, if we can talk about this later when we're both less emotional. She'll keep going, and we'll repeat this pattern a couple more time -* after which I become upset and say hurtful things*, which is what I wanted to avoid doing. I've tried walking out of the room - she'll follow me. I've tried just being quiet, like last night, and she kept going FOR 30 MINUTES on her own. She has told me that she doesn't like to leave things unresolved overnight, but when the discussion devolves it becomes pointless.
> 
> What am I missing?


First bolded, what did you expect? You had an affair, odds are it will always impact her perspective of you. Maybe with time it will get better, but did you expect that one day it will just go away? *Your marriage is forever changed by the affair.*

So the affair was a little over a year ago? If so, seems reasonable that she would still be pissed off. What you may find out, your affair may be something that she will never get over, no matter how many MC sessions you guys go to. If that is the case, then honestly divorce may be the only viable option. Everyone responds to things differently, and there are people who are simply not willing to go through with a reconciliation.

Second bolded, can you give an example of what hurtful things you are saying? Seems pretty $hitty to me that you would say anything hurtful after putting her through an affair.

As @blueinbr said, you let her talk. When she is done and then decides she wants to talk more, you let her talk more. If you can't deal with this after putting her through an affair then it is time to part ways.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> As @blueinbr said, you let her talk. When she is done and then decides she wants to talk more, you let her talk more. If you can't deal with this after putting her through an affair then it is time to part ways.


I set the record state I currently DO NOT do the above. I should have been doing this but I did not. I will do better in the future. 

I am 100% sure that this advice will work wonders for OP and for me.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

No, I don't. In fact, I expected it. But she took me back, so now we're on the same page and we both need to put work in to make it better, right?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> No, I don't. In fact, I expected it. But she took me back, so now we're on the same page and we both need to put work in to make it better, right?


I would say that although work is needed from both (without knowing exactly what the circumstances of your affair were, what the underlying issues in your marriage were) , the bulk of is has to be on you to do given you were the one who cheated (so I don't believe this is a 50/50).

You may find out though that although she thought she could work through it, she just might not be able to let it go no matter how hard you guys try, so if it gets to that point then you guys have a decision to make.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> First bolded, what did you expect? You had an affair, odds are it will always impact her perspective of you. Maybe with time it will get better, but did you expect that one day it will just go away? *Your marriage is forever changed by the affair.*
> 
> So the affair was a little over a year ago? If so, seems reasonable that she would still be pissed off. What you may find out, your affair may be something that she will never get over, no matter how many MC sessions you guys go to. If that is the case, then honestly divorce may be the only viable option. Everyone responds to things differently, and there are people who are simply not willing to go through with a reconciliation.
> 
> ...


When I asked her to reconcile, I fully expected her to say no. But she took me back, and we're working through piecing the relationship back together so we both need to put in work. I don't expect her to forget and just move, but in taking me back I think she signed on to part of improving our marriage, so I do get input into that process - I don't feel like I just have to sit back and let her rant and rave from now till forever. I don't insult her personally, nor do I get physical, but I do get tired of hearing the same old things about the past. Divorce... I don't think it's inevitable, but if we aren't communicating effectively then eventually it may be the best option. Again, I screwed - I know that, I get that, but if she wanted to f*ck me over, she should have just left, not take me back and expect me to just live in a purgatory of recapped history. I want to make this work, I do.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I would say that although work is needed from both (without knowing exactly what the circumstances of your affair were, what the underlying issues in your marriage were) , the bulk of is has to be on you to do given you were the one who cheated (so I don't believe this is a 50/50).
> 
> You may find out though that although she thought she could work through it, she just might not be able to let it go no matter how hard you guys try, so if it gets to that point then you guys have a decision to make.


The hardest thing is to know when 'that point' occurs. In my head, when we reconciled I decided not to make any rash decision about our marriage for 5 years, to work at it, go to counseling, then take the temperature.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> The hardest thing is to know when 'that point' occurs. In my head, when we reconciled I decided not to make any rash decision about our marriage for 5 years, to work at it, go to counseling, then take the temperature.


It may be best to move this topic over to the Coping With Infidelity section (if you haven't posted there before). I am sure folks will probably want to know more details about the affair (what caused it, how it was discovered, etc...), so not sure how much detail you are willing to go in to.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> When I asked her to reconcile, I fully expected her to say no. *But she took me back,* and we're working through piecing the relationship back together so we both need to put in work. I don't expect her to forget and just move,* but in taking me back I think she signed on to part of improving our marriage, *so I do get input into that process - *I don't feel like I just have to sit back and let her rant and rave *from now till forever. I don't insult her personally, nor do I get physical, but* I do get tired of hearing the same old things about the past. *Divorce... I don't think it's inevitable, but if we aren't communicating effectively then eventually it may be the best option. Again, I screwed - I know that, I get that, but if she wanted to f*ck me over, she should have just left, not take me back and *expect me to just live in a purgatory of recapped history.* I want to make this work, I do.


There has not yet been any reconciliation. That she did not kick your a$$ out already does not mean any of this is over by a long shot. The other poster is right. This needs to move to CWI section. 

You want this affair thing to be over. It may take years or may never get over. You are NOT doing the things she needs you to do to help her get over this.

As a moderator @EleGirl or @Amplexor to move this to CWI section. In you next post, ask them to move this. You will get better advice.

BTW: I have no experience as a betrayed but I clearly see from your wording that you are not all-in on the reconciliation, nor do you and your wife have the right tools and resources to get through this.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> The hardest thing is to know when 'that point' occurs. In my head, when we reconciled I decided not to make any rash decision* about our marriage for 5 years, *to work at it, go to counseling, then take the temperature.


Was the affair more than 5 years ago? You need to provide more about the affair so that we can help better.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

The affair will never be over and as someone said an affair changes a marriage forever.
You both have work to do.
Maybe you more than her as when the going got tough instead of working through it you did the cowardly thing and found someone else.
Whether she can learn to live with what you did is on her.
She might need some individual counseling in order to process some of the anger she has. 
My suggestion when you are fighting is just listen to her. Let her say what she needs to say and then calmly try to talk about it. 
When was the affair?


Sent from my iPhone


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thread is moved to CWI .


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long have you been married?

How long ago was your affair?


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> It may be best to move this topic over to the Coping With Infidelity section (if you haven't posted there before). I am sure folks will probably want to know more details about the affair (what caused it, how it was discovered, etc...), so not sure how much detail you are willing to go in to.


I may do that... my original post was about the communication aspect hence I put it here


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> The affair will never be over and as someone said an affair changes a marriage forever.
> You both have work to do.
> Maybe you more than her as when the going got tough instead of working through it you did the cowardly thing and found someone else.
> Whether she can learn to live with what you did is on her.
> ...


2 1/2 yrs ago


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> How long have you been married?
> 
> How long ago was your affair?


12 yrs married

3 yrs ago


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

bpdcfan said:


> 12 yrs married
> 
> 
> 
> 3 yrs ago




Three years
Did you separate at all after?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bpdcfan said:


> I may do that... my original post was about the communication aspect hence I put it here


The one goes hand-in-hand w/ the other.

Give us some details w/ respect to the affair...

Who was OW? Friend? Mutual friend? In-law? Co-worker? Manager? Subordinate? Older or younger than your wife?

How long did it last?

How was it uncovered?

Emotional, physical, or both?

Did you, at any point, leave your wife for OW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> If you have children, your wife may feel that she is trapped in a marriage with a man who she no longer loves or trusts and who she knows no longer loves her, for the good of her children. I'm sure if she feels that way she is feeling a lot of resentment towards you for her predicament. You are going to have to somehow convince her that you do love her and that she can trust you. That's on *you*.


We have kids yes, and she may have felt that it was best for them for us to be together


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> The one goes hand-in-hand w/ the other.
> 
> I think you're right, our communication wasn't good before the affair
> 
> ...


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> Three years
> Did you separate at all after?


We did for a year


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You need to understand her feelings from what you've done.

Read up:

Things that every wayward spouse needs to know - LoveShack.org Community Forums


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> There has not yet been any reconciliation. You're wrong there, we are back together and going to counseling. Reconciliation doesn't mean we're 100% perfect, just that we're working on it and not separated anymore. That she did not kick your a$$ out already does not mean any of this is over by a long shot. The other poster is right. This needs to move to CWI section.
> 
> You want this affair thing to be over. It may take years or may never get over. You are NOT doing the things she needs you to do to help her get over this.
> 
> ...


I view this process in almost the same manner as I would if we were still dating, almost an evaluation. We could both be "all in" and doing anything to make it work, but is that really the best? My fear is acting in contradiction to our natural selves, we don't really get a clear picture of who we both our individually, thereby gaining a better idea of how we can be as a couple. I could go over the moon to woo her back, but if I ever decrease that intensity wouldn't she wonder why? In the end, I think compatibility is only accurately determined when 2 individuals behave naturally. My wife and I married at 21 and had an immature relationship for many years so now I think we owe it to ourselves to evaluate this situation honestly and openly and do the best thing for each other and ourselves.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> No, I don't. In fact, I expected it. But she took me back, so now we're on the same page and we both need to put work in to make it better, right?


No, very wrong.

I cheated on my wife before we were married. She still married me anyway. So last month, 23+ years later, we fought and she brought it up. I took the punch and shut my mouth. 

You are lucky she took you back. Now you are going to take (and deserve) some punches now and maybe some years from now. Suck it up and take it like a man. If I could, you can.

As to who has work to do, you have A LOT more to do to prove you deserved the second chance she has given you . She has the work to convince herself that she made the right decision. By you not listening to her, you are making her doubt that she made the right decision. You will LOSE if you keep this up.

Quite frankly, as one wayward to another, your attitude svcks. You just don't get it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Her taking you back doesn't make the playing field level.

Your affair altered your marriage forever. That is on you. That is really totally on you. If you don't think that now, you need to start understanding that she has anger and hurt in her that is unlike what you have experienced. And that is all on you.

So, it is not an 'even split' re your responsibilities in your behavior toward one another. No, she shouldn't just be ranting and raving and you taking it forever. BUT you need to find your remorse for the hurt and damage you have done to her heart and mind and begin to find empathy for her so that she won't be ranting and raving.

You don't get to be self-righteous about this. You just don't if you want any chance of long-term success. If you can't find your remorse, your reconciliation may well be doomed, in my opinion.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> I view this process in almost the same manner as I would if we were still dating, almost an evaluation. We could both be "all in" and doing anything to make it work, but is that really the best? *My fear is acting in contradiction to our natural selves, *we don't really get a clear picture of who we both our individually, thereby gaining a better idea of how we can be as a couple. I could go over the moon to woo her back, but if I ever decrease that intensity wouldn't she wonder why? In the end,* I think compatibility is only accurately determined when 2 individuals behave naturally.* My wife and I married at 21 and had an immature relationship for many years so now I think we owe it to ourselves to evaluate this situation honestly and openly and do the best thing for each other and ourselves.


You and I are alike. Our "natural selves" are to cheat on our wives and to NOT "LISTEN" to them as they need us to do (their way) when they speak. So, to be honest our "natural selves" have failed. Fix your natural self to be a BETTER self, a combination of authenticity and some self-restraint (artificial, if you want to call it that) that will make you a much better person. 

You want the excuse of being "natural" for you do to whatever you want (and not what you NEED) because - well - it's natural. Are you for real?

You need to listen to the advice the other poster are giving you and fully embrace it and do it, because if you do not, your marriage is toast.

ETA: " I think we owe it to ourselves to evaluate this situation honestly and openly and do the best thing for each other and ourselves." This sounds to me that you want out of this marriage. IMO.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> No, very wrong.
> 
> I cheated on my wife before we were married. She still married me anyway. So last month, 23+ years later, we fought and she brought it up. I took the punch and shut my mouth.
> 
> ...


Okay, great, awesome - glad we had this talk...


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

bpdcfan said:


> Okay, great, awesome - glad we had this talk...




I know it's hard to hear these things...TAM is great in advice though.
Basically everyone had given you the same insight into what's going on.
Your wife is pissed and believe me feels even more pissed that she feels like she has to stay because of the kids.
Been there.
But you can get past it....a lot of work from you and work from her. Step up...you deserve some punches but in the same instance she can't keep harboring a grudge...at some point she had to decide whether she can live with you or whether she can't.
Are you in MC?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@bpdcfan, 

I have three practical suggestions you may want to try:

1) As @blueinbr said, you'll want to let her talk it out, but I do not think it is reasonable or healthy to allow her to rage at you unendingly. That is abuse, and trust me...abuse does not rebuild a marriage! However, it sounds like she has many things from the past that have hurt her, and she doesn't like to bring them up when all is good because ... well why ruin things. So she waits until all is NOT good, and then unleashes the beast! 

My practical suggestion would be that when you notice it's going off the rails, and she starts with one past thing, and you want to ask "Could we please take a break until we're less emotional" that instead you ask say:* "I would like to take a 15 MINUTE BREAK to get a drink and go to the bathroom"...and then set a timer* so everyone knows once the timer goes off, you WILL return. It's conceivable that she doesn't like to "leave things unresolved" because in the past you've asked for a break and then avoided coming back or avoided dealing with it, and she feels like it will be ignored (and become yet ANOTHER hurt). 

2) My second practical suggestion has to do with precisely the moment when she is beginning her rave. My wise guess is that she brings up a hurt from the past, you counter with "I didn't do that! I did this and this", she replies with proof that you DID do it, and the spirals downward from there. So my next practical suggestion would be to* listen to her first thing from the past, and set your own ego aside for one moment *(literally--do not allow abuse but like take a deep breath and remind yourself). Then rather than thinking in your head about what you are going to REPLY to her to prove your side...instead* listen to what she said and just repeat it back. *

So let's pretend she says: _"You never listen to me! You've always just ignored my opinion and done whatever the ___ you want. Remember that time in __ when I asked if we could ___ and you just left me and went __?"_

Your temptation might be to respond about how you didn't ignore her and you did what she asked and went to __ afterward (or whatever), but instead put your ego aside, take a breath, and say: _"So you're saying that to you, it feels like I ignore you and don't value your opinion. And that time in __ when you asked if we could ___, you felt really bad and it hurt you when I went and ____. Is that right?"_ Always end with "Is that right?" because that gives her a chance to focus on THIS ONE INCIDENT and to tell you if you understood what she was trying to say or not. 

3) My third practical advice would be to talk to your wife and let her know that it seems to you that she has some issues in the past that seem unresolved to her. Then suggest that the two of you agree to pick ONE issue a day to talk about that ONE issue when you're both fairly calm and that the whole talk will last 30 minutes (or some set amount of time). In other words, have a MUTUAL AGREEMENT that it's* ONE issue and __ minutes at __ o'clock every day*. 

Then every day let her pick whatever the issues is that she wants to discuss. Let her talk and do #2 again--listen, take a breath, and repeat it back to her. The idea here is that it will focus on one issue with the goal of RESOLVING that one. The idea is to hear her side and not necessarily for the two of you to agree--after all you two are not the same person and thus will probably NOT agree! But if you can understand, she'll feel better. And the idea here is to meet at a time of day when it doesn't feel like a dump on you and when you have the assurance that it won't turn into the Spanish Inquisition. Even if it does get loud, in your head you can always say "it's only for ___ minutes and I can survive that!"

Then when the time is up... the time is UP. Every single time. She has to agree to control herself and stop fighting. Now, that may be a toughie, but my guess is that if she is able to start going, one-by-one, through these past unresolved issues, she'll feel somewhat better and be able to stop...whereas now, she has so many of them stuffed inside she feels like she's ready to blow!

So in summary:

1) "I would like to take a 15 MINUTE BREAK to get a drink and go to the bathroom"...and then set a timer and come back.
2) Listen to her first thing from the past, and set your own ego aside for one moment, and just repeat it back starting with "So you're saying that to you..." and ending with "...Is that right?"
3) Mutually agree to address ONE issue for __ minutes at __ o'clock every day.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bpdcfan said:


> Okay, great, awesome - glad we had this talk...


Hi OP,

This is helpful. It really is. Did you disagree with what I said or just how I said it?

Give some thought about your discussions/arguments with your wife. Do you disagree with what she is saying or just how she says it? If the latter, you can work with her and your therapist to develop a better way to communicate that does not make you tune out.

Listen to @Affaircare The advice is great, and free. 

You can get through this with your wife if you both are fully committed. Just the fact that you are at this site, and responding back, shows you want your marriage to continue and thrive. Good luck.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> I know it's hard to hear these things...TAM is great in advice though.
> Basically everyone had given you the same insight into what's going on.
> Your wife is pissed and believe me feels even more pissed that she feels like she has to stay because of the kids.
> Been there.
> ...


We are in MC. I agree w/ whoever here said that I shouldn't expect the playing field to be level just because she took me back. But I like what you say about her not being able to hold a grudge forever. I deserve it, yes - but she's gonna get worn down over time holding on to it, I think.


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## bpdcfan (Jan 27, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> Why did you cheat?


I didn't feel respected by my spouse. She likes to talk more than listen, and interrupts people (not just me) while they're talking. She would criticize the gifts I'd buy her, in fun she said, but it still ate at me. My suggestions for raising the kids or keeping the house clean (of which I do my fair share to help) were often criticized as well. It was such a hassle to get free time for golf, she'd say I didn't want to be with my kids and make it pretty miserable to enjoy the rare free time I got on my own. So when I was away taking a class, I met someone who would listen and not interrupt, and would validate my opinions. It scared me a little how much different it was and how much I liked it. I was vulnerable and made a poor decision.


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## jewels465 (Nov 20, 2014)

Make her feel important to you. Like you care about her feelings. The only person you can change is you, so that's where you can start. When you feel the conversation is taking a turn for the worse, just listen, and reassure her you wants what's best for her. Let us know how it goes! Good luck!


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