# should affairs be deemed a form of spousal abuse?



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Time and again, I am appalled to read that men are paying support for children that were conceived during and affair. 

I am appalled to read that people have been sentenced to a lifelong STD caught from a cheating spouse, with no criminal charges for assault being filed against the cheater and his cheater partner. 

I am appalled to see that most states do not even consider cheating a mitigating factor in the divorce and split everything 50/50 and many times a cheating spouse still gets alimony.

What is going on? 

Why should a cheating spouse receive any support or alimony. 

Why do they get 50/50 of the assets when often they spend a significant amount of money (marital assets) on the affair partner. 

Both men and women spend money on the affair partner, in the form of gifts, etc.

Also, why is it so hard to sue affair partner for alienation of affection. If both BS's sued for this it would really hurt the cheaters. 

IMO, if there were more serious ramifications for cheating within a marriage society would benefit because fewer people would cheat knowing they may lose so much financially or be charged with assault if they pass on an incurable STD. 

There are numerous viral types of STD's that can actually go through a condom. In addition condoms often slip off and other forms of sex can still spread STDs. 

In addition, just fluid that seeps around a condom can infect someone with an STD. Deep kissing can also pass an STD.

What do you think?

All opinions welcome

Do any of the BS's feel abused, as if the affair is a form of violent emotional battering and abuse.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

courts are more concerned with the care of children than with the spouse and the laws are geared that way as a result

which, of course, makes for some unfair laws

plus you can really clog up the courts if you start making settlements based on why the marriage dissolved and you will find many cases of trumped up charges and such

so you're basically looking at a long time to get a "fair" divorce (and more $$ for lawyers) or quicker ways to move on- tough call


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Why? Because our society glamorizes cheating. You see this in the media, the movies, on television, etc. Society has become desensitized to cheating. The general belief is that if a spouse cheats, it's the BSs fault. That the BS drove them to cheat. You see that in the attitudes of the people who haven't been betrayed yet who post in the CWI forum. 

Its the changing mores of society. Most states and countries have gone to no-fault divorce, where there are no repercussions for infidelity, none at all. They can cheat and still walk away with half the marital assets and in most cases, custody of the children. There really is no justice. And the driving force behind all this no-fault divorce laws? It's about money. Because all states/countries have a limited amound of courts and judges. Proving adultery in court requires a trial, which takes up court time and money. 

This is part of the decadence of western society. I doubt we would see any change in our lifetimes.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

plus you would have to change the perception held by most of society that people are driven to cheat by their spouses withholding sex or not paying enough attention to them


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I do understand what you are saying, Sara, I really do. But no, I don't think affairs are equal to spousal abuse. I'm not saying that they are not as serious, but it's just conflating two different things. Sorry, I'm a word person.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree and have said it before. The only way we are going to preserve families from the pain and destruction of infidelity is to impose harsher penalties on the WS, especially when it comes to divorce. And most of the times it is the WW who walks away scott-free with generous child-support and sometimes even alimony. For God's sake it's time to act to move our government into imposing some kind of actions on adulterous spouses who destroy their families in order to serve their own selfish needs and still benefit from the havoc they cause. To me a spouse who routinely cheats or has a continuing affair despite being being confronted by their partner IS ABUSING their partner and evern their family if there are kids involved.

Write your congressmen! Maybe a Pettition initiated by this group!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> courts are more concerned with the care of children than with the spouse and the laws are geared that way as a result
> 
> which, of course, makes for some unfair laws
> 
> ...


Well if they are worried about the kids force the biological dad to pay child support. 

Forcing a BS to pay support for kids that are not his own is emotionally abusive in itself, NO?

I don't see that lawyers getting more work is a bad thing. It creates jobs. 

As for clogging the courts, raise the filing fees and such and hire more judges with that money. 

I agree with Lord Mayhem. I know this will not change in my lifetime, but it just seems a bit insane that men are forced to support kids born of infidelity. What a slap in the face. 

Also a lifelong STD is no joke for the BS


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

I tend to think that no fault divorces were the death of any type of legal retribution for affairs. Which in turn is why there is such a blaise attitude in some circles too them.

I am going to use a sports analogy. In Professional Hockey there is the instigator rule.

That means that if you start a fight you would receive an extra penalty and get kicked out of the game.

Now what has happened in alot of cases is that the players have reached a time where there is really a lack of respect for each other. You see alot more violence in terms of dirty play,

Why?

Because there is little to no fear of gettin your a$s kicked if you do something stupid that results in a player getting injured. There is no consequence. Believe me, when I played, I knew if I did something stupid a big ole boy would be right over to take care of business. There was fear in that. You toed the line if you did not want to engage with that big ole boy.


Same thing here imo... there is no fear. You can have an A and go about your business. It has been de-sensitized.


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

"courts are more concerned with the care of children than with the spouse and the laws are geared that way as a result"

The problem with that is that most courts assume the mother is the better parent and that is not always true.

In cases in which both parents appear to be competent but the wife has been found adulterous, more serious consideration should be given to giving the father primary custody. This does not in any way endanger the children but it doesn't REWARD the cheating wife either.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think part of the problem too is that the law makers have a serious conflict of interest on this since their track record (I'm look at you Newt and Bill!) is very very poor.

so asking law makers to make a law which will come back to personally bite them, well that's not going to happen.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

newt and bill dont make state laws


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, even if it was legally abuse and could be prosecuted, the abuser would just get off with a slap on the wrist. Jails are so overcrowded already they let murderers and child molesters out WAY earlier than they should, and/or give them ridiculously light sentences in the first place.

I also do not agree that every cheater should end up with a criminal record because of it. (same with some people convicted of assault - having a lifelong criminal record because of something one did in a moment of insanity when they were 18 is silly IMO) My husband for example. For him to be labelled a criminal for what he did is ridiculous. Do I feel abused? Hell yeah. Would him being a criminal help me? Not in the LEAST. We travel outside Canada a couple times a year or more, and that would end. I like Canada, but there's a whole world out there too, and for me to be denied that pleasure with my remorseful husband would piss me right off. Plus he's been through the wringer about it enough. Time to move on for us, and we are.

Now, if he did it AGAIN, ask me if I think he should be in jail reaching for the bar of soap. You'll get a different answer.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> Time and again, I am appalled to read that men are paying support for children that were conceived during and affair.
> 
> I am appalled to read that people have been sentenced to a lifelong STD caught from a cheating spouse, with no criminal charges for assault being filed against the cheater and his cheater partner.
> 
> ...


Sure! As long as they include a section for "withholding intimacy" as abuse as well... 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I think we can all agree that Family Law/Divorce Law in most states and countries need reform. But that isn't going to happen until society changes its attitude about infidelity and stops blaming the betrayed spouse. Until infidelity is no longer glamorized, but looked on as the cancer that it is, nothing will change. It's going to take decades for any change in perception, because right now, infidelity is sexy, but fidelity is not.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Well, even if it was legally abuse and could be prosecuted, the abuser would just get off with a slap on the wrist. Jails are so overcrowded already they let murderers and child molesters out WAY earlier than they should, and/or give them ridiculously light sentences in the first place.
> 
> I also do not agree that every cheater should end up with a criminal record because of it. (same with some people convicted of assault - having a lifelong criminal record because of something one did in a moment of insanity when they were 18 is silly IMO) My husband for example. For him to be labelled a criminal for what he did is ridiculous. Do I feel abused? Hell yeah. Would him being a criminal help me? Not in the LEAST. We travel outside Canada a couple times a year or more, and that would end. I like Canada, but there's a whole world out there too, and for me to be denied that pleasure with my remorseful husband would piss me right off. Plus he's been through the wringer about it enough. Time to move on for us, and we are.
> 
> Now, if he did it AGAIN, ask me if I think he should be in jail reaching for the bar of soap. You'll get a different answer.


I only think a criminal charge should be filed if they pass on a lifelong STD. It is assault and in non marriages similar and even lesser injuries are considered assault. 

Lastly, marriage is a legal contract, but it is not treated the same way a contract with a corporation is treated. 

In a similar betrayal between corporation in contract the injured party gets a big pay out. 

Marriage is a legal contract.



The stat shows that a high percentage of cheaters never get caught. 

So catching someone once, doesn't guarantee they haven't cheated prior but never been caught. 

about ten years back I found condoms in my husband's gym bag. It was an old gym bag he used prior to our marriage and he said they were old. 

But, I now realize he gaslighted me. 

Also, woman have called the house many times, but he claimed they were clients. Clients don't need to call the house. 

He also did the picking the fight thing and storming out of the house periodically over the years. A red flag of an affair.

So, I think this is only my cheating husbands first time getting caught. 

Now I know the red flags but before I was clueless and looking back I see them.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

PBear said:


> Sure! As long as they include a section for "withholding intimacy" as abuse as well...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is grounds for a legal divorce. It is called abandonment. Some religions will even grant an annulment if a healthy, non ill wife withholds sex.

But, I know quite a few men who have erectile dysfunction, yet their wives are considerate loving and understanding. Is there a double standard here?

Also, a spouse who isn't getting any is free to leave the marriage

Is having an affair and possibly passing on a deadly hep C virus or HIV or an other STD really the right choice.

Most cheaters continue to have sex with their spouse. They are simply bored with married sex in a long term relationship and want some variety.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> I think we can all agree that Family Law/Divorce Law in most states and countries need reform. But that isn't going to happen until society changes its attitude about infidelity and stops blaming the betrayed spouse. Until infidelity is no longer glamorized, but looked on as the cancer that it is, nothing will change. It's going to take decades for any change in perception, because right now, infidelity is sexy, but fidelity is not.


Also, I think such reform would UNCLOG the divorce courts because people would no that there would be a serious legal ramification to their cheating and breaking their marital contract.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You know, if people just quit getting married a lot of this cheating would stop. People would just break up BEFORE they went with someone else, if they didn't have to get an expensive divorce


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Also, I think such reform would UNCLOG the divorce courts because people would no that there would be a serious legal ramification to their cheating and breaking their marital contract.


In theory, it would be a deterrent. But reality says otherwise. I've seen rap sheets of people who have literally been arrested hundreds of times, yet jail doesn't seem to be a deterrent.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> It is grounds for a legal divorce. It is called abandonment. Some religions will even grant an annulment if a healthy, non ill wife withholds sex.
> 
> But, I know quite a few men who have erectile dysfunction, yet their wives are considerate loving and understanding. Is there a double standard here?
> 
> ...


Yes, the spouse that's not getting any is free to leave the marriage. At the cost of half the financial gain that we're talking about the cheating spouse having to give up. So where's the incentive for the withholding spouse to address the situation? I'm just saying, if you're going to penalize one side, there has to be an equalizer on the other side.

As far as the ED issue, there's also lots of guys that stand by their woman if she has medical issues. And there's lots of women who cheat when their spouses can't (or won't) put out. I'm not the one to put gender specifics on either side... Both genders are cheating pretty equally, and for similar reasons.

As far as disease goes, yes, that's an unfair situation for the betrayed spouse.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> In theory, it would be a deterrent. But reality says otherwise. I've seen rap sheets of people who have literally been arrested hundreds of times, yet jail doesn't seem to be a deterrent.


Alas, I think you are absolutely right.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

PBear said:


> Yes, the spouse that's not getting any is free to leave the marriage. At the cost of half the financial gain that we're talking about the cheating spouse having to give up. So where's the incentive for the withholding spouse to address the situation? I'm just saying, if you're going to penalize one side, there has to be an equalizer on the other side.
> 
> As far as the ED issue, there's also lots of guys that stand by their woman if she has medical issues. And there's lots of women who cheat when their spouses can't (or won't) put out. I'm not the one to put gender specifics on either side... Both genders are cheating pretty equally, and for similar reasons.
> 
> ...


I agree both genders are cheating. My husband cheated with a wife and they are heterosexual.

I agree that if a wife is withholding sex for absolutely no health reason whatsoever, she should not get 50/50 or alimony. So we resonate on that issue, too.

I am talking about woman who can't have sex because of pain or other issues related to structural defects, or hormonal deficits associated with medical issues such as autoimmune disorders like Sjorgrens disease that causes dry eyes and dry mucous membranes or other auto immune issues.

Erectile dysfunction is easier to see and quite honestly you can't spike paper without a paper spike. So if the guy has a rope, everyone says, "Oh poor joe"

but a woman's hormonal deficits manifest in different ways. Those ways are not quite as obvious as a limp wang.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think that what should be permitted is a civil lawsuit recognizing damages from the loss of partnership etc.

Valid targets should be:

1. WS
2. AP if the AP used work or business relationship or other means to attract the WS
3. AP f the AP actually helped the WS develop the affair and provided assistance to engage in it
4. Employers which enable or blind eye it
5. Friends if they rendered assistance to enable, execute, or cover the affair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

To add to prior post:

Most people who have affairs are still having sex at home. 

Just read these threads. 

I am sorry you weren't getting any. That is wrong, if your wife was healthy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So post infidelity stress disorder exists. If a soldier experiences PTSD, do they get compensation from the military? Maybe the offending spouse should have to pay for treatment of the BS, plus damages.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> To add to prior post:
> 
> Most people who have affairs are still having sex at home.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. And I'm sorry you were cheated on. I don't think anyone deserves to be cheated on, the same as nobody deserves to be abused. It IS always the choice of the cheating spouse to take that step to call their AP, book a hotel room, drive to a meeting... 

I do think your proposed plan has a very major flaw, though... Same as "withholding intimacy", what does "infidelity" mean? Is it only if they had traditional sex? Does oral count? Hand jobs, kissing, nude pics being sent... Where is the line drawn?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Baffled01 (Mar 14, 2012)

"It's going to take decades for any change in perception, because right now, infidelity is sexy, but fidelity is not."

Unfortunately true. This morning I got a spam email promoting a dating site for local cheating wives. It's not the first time or the first site either. Between Hollywood, these types of dating sites, and Facebook, cheating is easy, glamorous and convenient. It would take a massive effort to combat this, but it could be done.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

PBear said:


> Thank you for that. And I'm sorry you were cheated on. I don't think anyone deserves to be cheated on, the same as nobody deserves to be abused. It IS always the choice of the cheating spouse to take that step to call their AP, book a hotel room, drive to a meeting...
> 
> I do think your proposed plan has a very major flaw, though... Same as "withholding intimacy", what does "infidelity" mean? Is it only if they had traditional sex? Does oral count? Hand jobs, kissing, nude pics being sent... Where is the line drawn?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind comments. 

Regarding the definition of infidelity. Well there is supposedly emotional, financial and physical infidelity descriptions already. 

So, each could be addressed separately but the courts. 

For me, sexual touching is physical infidelity because given time it will lead to penetration. Anyone who says not is deluding themselves. 

Financial infidelity is another topic and that too is abusive. Spending or hiding marital assets should be a crime under the contract of marriage. Financial infidelity is a breach of the marital contract and it is a form of theft by deception.

Emotional affairs only without kissing, fondling or sexual touching, well that's just as destructive.

If it takes money away from marital assists without the BS's knowledge, than it is financial infidelity. 

I don't think drawing a line for a decent definition would be that difficult.


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

Being in Canada I am unsure of this in the context of American law so I will ask here...

Is Alienation of Affection a legally viable strategy?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I do understand what you are saying, Sara, I really do. But no, I don't think affairs are equal to spousal abuse. I'm not saying that they are not as serious, but it's just conflating two different things. Sorry, I'm a word person.


I disagree(and I am a word person, as well((not quite sure what that means, but I like the sound of it)) ). It is the worst form of emotional abuse, with all the attendent gaslighting, blaming and cruelty displayed. It causes more trauma than many other forms of abuse.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

PBear said:


> Sure! As long as they include a section for "withholding intimacy" as abuse as well...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is abuse, too. And many WSs engage in it, as well as cheating.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

TorontoBoyWest said:


> Being in Canada I am unsure of this in the context of American law so I will ask here...
> 
> Is Alienation of Affection a legally viable strategy?


It's only a viable strategy in a few states.

Even in those states some attorneys shy away from it because if the person being sued has few assets it will only rack up legal fees for the BS without any way to get a payback.

There is one case in which a BS did win millions from a very wealthy woman her husband cheated with. I think that was in North Carolina.


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