# I've cheated now too



## qwerty1234 (Jul 12, 2010)

My wife has cheated on more than one occasion over the years. I was very judgemental about it and can't trust her but have stayed. There were many reasons to stay..... kids, fear of being alone, being too forgiving, etc. We have rarely had a great relationship considering we both brought emotional baggage into the marriage from the beginning. I've mostly overcome mine and feel very good about myself as a person (usually). In the past year I've had a great deal of trouble picturing a future with her. I guess I started to emotionally detach and move on for the first time. There are still many reasons to stay. A new one is that she is very depressed and now very dependant on me emotionally. I'm closer to leaving than ever before but am afraid it will crush her (despite what she had done to me) that she'll have trouble coping and functioning. I'm not sure I can hurt her like that and I'm also concerned about how it will affect her abillity to continue to be a good mom. Some of you might think I'm not giving her enough credit but believe me she vocally talks about wishing she wasn't alive. It's a serious situation. Our marriage has been horrible for years despite much effort from both of us but I don't know what to do. Do I stay just to protect her.

Since emotionally detaching, I made some selfish and poor decisions over the past month. I have begun an intense emotional affair with a coworker who lives in another city. I've known her for a long time and have always looked forward to seeing her at company events and have had feelings for her for a while. I never acted on the feelings in any way, not even flirting. I just settled for enjoying seeing her and talking to her. Recently we discovered through email that our feelings are mutual and have been for years. Once the cat was out of the bag it didn't take much for things to quickly get intense. Sadly, the chances of us having the fairytale ending is pretty remote since she is also married with kids and we live far away from each other. I feel like I've put myself in a bad situation where I'm going to have to hurt somebody, including myself. To make matters even worse, I met someone else who is more local and a great person and found myself attracted to her. We shared some very personal moments recently (no sex, we talked alot and we kissed at the end). Afterwards, I didn't feel like I had cheated on my wife but I did feel like I cheated on my long distance girlfriend. What a mess I have made.

I know if I email or contact the local woman she will want to see me and things could get serious quickly. So I'm trying to resist contacting her at all. The long distance girlfriend wants to meet face to face for the first time since we shared our feelings for each other. I'm not sure I can resist that since I've wanted her for a long time. My wife knows things are bad and wouldn't be shocked if I decided to leave but desperately wants me to stay and continue working on things.

I haven't had sex with anyone yet (including my wife in a very very long time) but I'm a hypocrite now already and I don't know what to do. I don't want to devastate my wife or hurt my kids but I'm also feeling a sense of selfishness and want to be happy.

Very confused.


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## TheRelationshpSupermarket (Feb 21, 2010)

The best way to rip a plaster off is very quickly and totally. You sound like you have too many things hanging on. You'll soon be tied up around your knees, unable to move.

You're already hurting yourself and wife by staying around, living a double life. You're unhappy and so is she. This can't make you the best parents you can be. Already, living in a miserable household is destroying your kids. 

You need to sit down and talk about this. Offer your support to your wife while she gets over the situation. Her depression needs professional help. This is probably the reason she behaves so irrationally. Get her counselling so she can deal after you leave. Perhaps none of these 3 women are what you need at the moment.

You need space to think and eventually someone to love.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

You are the second man today who posted about another woman (in your case 2) after *trying* to work on the marriage. I would have liked to hear you sought help for the marriage, just as you are seeking help to get to the other women. So I wonder if you did or why you didn't come here for that purpose instead. I realize you have disconnected emotionally, but surely at some point you realized you cannot fix things on your own. Why stay in the marriage calling yourself saving/fixing it, only to continuously encounter the same problems and to deal with them in the same manner, which repeatedly proved frustrating and unsuccessful. Now, you come here looking for help to get away so you can have fun and "be happy" while feigning concern for your family. What kind of concern is this?


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## qwerty1234 (Jul 12, 2010)

The reason my wife is depressed has little or nothing to do with our marriage. It is mainly due to a history of traumatic events from her past. She *is* in therapy and we *have* been to marriage counselling several times. I've been supportive and understanding about her issues over the years. Her infidelity has alot to do with her issues (which I won't go into). That leaves me now in a situation where I truly believe leaving will be more than she can handle (or I'm using it as a excuse to not make a difficult decision) but yet I cannot be in love with her again. I love her and care about her but will never be 'in love' with her again. Staying will hurt me some and leaving will hurt me some but leaving could severely damage her....perhaps. It's not an easy decision.

I know its not about the other women.... maybe one of them is a future for me but probably not. I know that.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> The reason my wife is depressed has little or nothing to do with our marriage. It is mainly due to a history of traumatic events from her past. She is in therapy and we have been to marriage counselling several times. I've been supportive and understanding about her issues over the years. Her infidelity has alot to do with her issues (which I won't go into). That leaves me now in a situation where I truly believe leaving will be more than she can handle (or I'm using it as a excuse to not make a difficult decision) but yet I cannot be in love with her again. I love her and care about her but will never be 'in love' with her again. Staying will hurt me some and leaving will hurt me some but leaving could severely damage her....perhaps. It's not an easy decision.


Of COURSE it's not about the Other Women. It is about YOU and what YOU are doing - your choices. It is entirely all about to what you truly commit yourself.

Qwerty, a lot of the issue here is that you are eyebrow deep in an affair, and as such are so fogbound there doesn't seem to be any dry land in sight. Your statements (I cannot be in love with her again) etc., are straight from the 'cheater's script' 

You 'love' her but will never be 'in love' with her? That line is so standard it's frightening. Your case is not special, there are no exceptions that make your treatment of your wife moral, acceptable, or justified. 

For starters, just to help you make your decision about how to proceed, change the verbs in your sentences to the correct ones - it gives greater clarity and also helps you see where you might be able to steer:

"I cannot be in love with her" should be changed to "I will not be in love with her" and "I will never be in love with her" should be changed to "I choose to never be in love with her" - those are decisions a person makes. Nowadays most people are taught not to think too deeply - to avoid the basic thought processes that they go through to make decisions, and are instead taught to jump or skip over those processes and instead rely on the emotional response to those thoughts to make decisions. In other words, about half the thinking process is avoided entirely, and decisions are reactive, rather than proactive. Makes for a public that is easier to control. 

But it does not work for marriage. In order to have a good marriage, you can never wait for your emotions to tell you what to do. Instead, you make decisions, and act on them - _regardless of emotion._ A truly deliberative life (that is, a free one) is lived deliberately.

First things first: you made a promise to your spouse. My guess is that you weren't deliberative enough at the time to include the necessary conditions to enable your abandoning the marriage later: if you had been thinking clearly enough at the time, you would have logically and with care inserted terms like 'I promise to love you until I no longer experience the emotions I feel right now,' or 'I promise to stay with you until I get upset' or 'until times get too hard,' etc. 

Instead, you made a promise (gave your word - the one thing that establishes the difference between an honorable man and a coward) 'for better *or worse[/i] until death parted you.' Neither of you are dead. Your word still stands. 

Love is not an emotion. Plan and simple. It is an ACTION. It is treating a person in a way the shows them respect and honor. What we have been taught to think of as love is instead a group of other emotions: lust, desire, happiness, giddiness, joy, comfort, etc. ANYONE can fall back 'in love' with someone. It depends on how much effort you are willing to put into the relationship. The 'in love' feeling is a RESULT, not the CAUSE of actions. Hence, you are making a decision to refuse to love your wife, because the end result of that would be the 'in love' feeling - which you wish to avoid in order to keep your affair going. 

And that affair is not aimed at a single person. Instead, it is aimed away from your commitment. It is aimed at escaping a situation that frustrates and annoys you. One that you don't want to work at.

Which brings up my last point: the fact that someone is in[/i] therapy, or that you have been to therapy is meaningless. It is essentially busy work. You can go to therapy all you want, go see all the marriage counselors you want to see. The fact that you have been to a counselor is irrelevant. It is the work you do on your marriage that counts. And from what I see of your writing, it looks to me that there has been a lot of busy times, and no real work put into your marriage.

Advice: end ALL affairs, ALL infidelity, and all THOUGHTS of same, until either you end your marriage, or you fix it. Both can be done, leaving is by far easier (hence the road most often taken - not many people want to do any hard work). While you are married, put your effort into that. If that fails (and NOT by your decision to run away) then you will have the knowledge that what you did was the RIGHT thing.*


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

from what u wrote (which was pretty good comp to some i've read here trying to say the same thing(s)), i'd say 'Pete is pretty much on the $$$.

the only thing i may sympathize w/ u is, that perhaps its worse 
than u described/wrote here on this post of yers.
too many people try to but, cant convey their trials/troubles w/ 
their H/W to convince anyone here to cut them alittle sympathy/empathy, which seems to be one of yer major reasons for posting this at TAM (not so much help in making yer decison on which "path" to follow).

i get a vibe here that maybe u r consciously or unconciously still 
dealing w/ forgiveness issues re: yer W's infidelities. thats a biggie many folk dont comprehend the fullest ramifications
thereof until they themselves have experienced it. some can, 
some cant, simple as that, for starters anyway.

i am not going to go into the many dimensions and off-shoots of it here, as u may disagree/deny it. also i'm not licensed and as such would advise u to get psych/counseling help on this 
VERY DIFFICULT-IMPORTANT aspect of psycho-social behaviors,
should u not be able to do so adequately on yer own (which is ok, dont sweat it/that, as many cant/dont).

hope u get my psycho babble listed above.:lol:

tell us more if u can, about the forgiveness aspect. or at very least do so yerself w/in confines of yer own mind/decision making processes.

peace be on you========================ray:


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

I read that you feel stuck between a rock and a hard place... and another rock. Although it is admirable that you are sticking around bc you fear that your wife may actually go over the edge, it may be more than you can handle. From what you have written, it is clear you dont want to stay. Each of us has limits to what we can handle... but we are also not given more than we can handle (we choose not to handle it). 

Forgiving your wife for her affairs is only a piece of this... and regardless of whether you have or not, you are resentful for feeling trapped in a place that you find scary (based on how you describe her and the reasons you stay). You dont want to feel responsible if she decides to lose her sanity if you leave, or kill herself, or whatever happens. Times are so different today then years ago, but the responsibility you feel to your marriage is the same. Many today would just say she is whacked out and leave, not even caring what would happen to her. You are struggling with what to do, instead. Your "selfish" choices re: the OW x2, is just that part of you that wants the "normal" life you see other married or single people having, not one with a wife on the edge. Its in part an expression of you grieving what you know you dont have in the married life you envisioned. Its like the loss of a partner in life, or thats how it feels anyhow. 

You want to connect with a woman who knows how to connect in return, I get that. I dont judge you for that. My question to you is what would happen to this already fragile/on the edge wife of yours if she found out about other women? Think about this... since it is clear you want out, and quite frankly dont blame you if what you type here is accurate, which would be worse... her finding out about you having affairs or you leaving and then starting something fresh? I know you feel responsible for her, but honestly sometimes people have to fall to get better and maybe leaving is the lesser of 2 evils in this situation? 

Bottom line is dont stay out of obligation unless you can live up to that obligation without rebellion... the fact that you are testing the waters out shows that you really dont want that obligation...

Do you have finances to set her up for an easier transition? Perhaps try to figure out a way to buffer that instead of pursuing affairs.

On the affair side... however, there is a growing trend to have married dating in our lives as a way to stay in an unfulfilling marriage. That way you can stay in your marriage and be fulfilled. You can join the trend... but with your wife, just dont get caught bc wife may lose it... and with the coworker situation... that sounds dangerous bc even though she is not in your town/office... the intensity you described shouts towards declarations of love and breakups of both marriages and then you both trying to move forward with one another... bad idea. You cannot start a new life with someone on a lie, it wont work. What happens when one of you withdraws and then the other feels needy and looks elsehwere... or doesnt but in the back of your mind you know she is capable of it bc thats how you all started out. If you go the affair route it has to be simply that, an affair that has well defined borders and boundaries and no future that looks any different than how it starts out. 

It is your life and you have to know what you can live with, then you need the courage to go live it. That courage may be to be able to live with your spouse and cut off those other women, or to leave your wife and start anew... please with women other than the 2 you have been talking with now. You will know when you are ready to make your choice, bc when you are ready either way, there wont be a choice, it will be clear. Thats what is meant by divorce adage... only do it when there is no longer a choice in your mind to stay. If its not clear, its not the right path. You still feel bound to your wife even if it is in a way you dont like.


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## qwerty1234 (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks everyone. Some great things to think about in your replies.

You are right cb45 that there is alot more to the story but I'm not willing to go into all the details here. Thanks for recognizing that. I appreciate it.

Pete, I know working on a marriage is more than just a therapy session. I truly have worked at it for years in alot of ways and have just now reached a crossroads moment. You are right that I need to decide between staying with true commitment or leaving without regard to any other women.

'whynot' you have given me alot to think about. I'm a little shocked at how accurately you broke down my life from one post but most of what you had to say is bang on. You made a great point about me not leaving because she might not be able to handle it but yet she might find out about the OW and that could be even worse. I did forgive my wife for her initial affair; however, other affairs (at least emotional ones, possibly more) have occurred since that I have not been able to forgive her for. I don't know if I have the emotional energy to go through that process again. That is why I took the easy road (and I know I've taken the easy road) by detaching myself from her and enjoying being pursued by these other women. Its flattering to be wanted by someone else and its a welcome escape from reality. You are correct that I've been fantasizing about the life I want instead of the one I have rather than just making good decisions about my future either way. I know it is wrong and I've been flogging myself plenty for it. I'm also feeling guilt and fear that I'm being a home wrecker to the OW. I don't want that to be that person. You said that the choices will be clear. I'm not sure I understand that. I guess I understand that the choices are very very unclear right now so that should tell me something but I'm not sure they'll ever be clearer. I'm still so confused but thanks for all the comments.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

qwerty1234 said:


> I know its not about the other women.


It never is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

qwerty1234 said:


> I truly have worked at it for years in alot of ways and have just now reached a crossroads moment.


That's because NOW you have another woman to give you hope. Textbook affairspeak. People rarely reach 'that point' in their marriage...until an alternative shows up.


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## qwerty1234 (Jul 12, 2010)

turnera said:


> People rarely reach 'that point' in their marriage...until an alternative shows up.


I hear what you are saying but the crossroads did come first in my case which eventually opened me up to alternatives that I wouldn't have otherwise allowed.

So the chain of events was crossroads => alternatives => crisis.

You may think I'm splitting hairs but I didn't put the cart before the horse. But I did make a mistake in not completely ending my marriage before 'testing the waters' so to speak.

The chain should have been crossroads => good decisions => new life. Unfortunately I was weak and took the easiest route at the time.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

uhhh yep...........splitting hairs.


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

qwerty1234 said:


> You said that the choices will be clear. I'm not sure I understand that. I guess I understand that the choices are very very unclear right now so that should tell me something but I'm not sure they'll ever be clearer. I'm still so confused but thanks for all the comments.



Thats right, the choices are unclear right now, bc you still feel a bond to your wife even though you have one foot out the door... perhaps the guilt about that is also making the choices blurred. End what you are doing with these other women and then live for a little and your feelings will become clearer. Its hard to understand until you reach the point where it becomes clear, bc you arent there until you get there. Sorry for the philosophical like answer so far, it will make sense, just keep reading. Maybe I can state it this way... when its the right time for a divorce you will know bc you are indifferent about your spouse and marriage, there are no strings of hope left and you feel completely defeated like there IS nothing left to do or try. There IS only one way to go. If you arent at that point, then your marriage can still be worked on and saved. I never believed people when they would tell me that you can get to that point bc it took 9 years to get there and believe me, when you get there there is no choice, you just know. 

My point is, you will know and it will be THE only place to go. If its not that crystal clear, then its not the right choice. I hope this long winded answer helps.


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## qwerty1234 (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks 'whynot'. That is very clear actually.... your msg I mean... not my life decisions.


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## Runawaytrain (Jun 7, 2010)

I must of missed the boat. I do NOT see how you have been working on your marriage. :scratchhead: You admitted to having feelings for this other woman for years. You are not giving your marriage a chance my dear. You left a long time ago. You started leaving as soon as you allowed yourself to have feelings for another woman. What you give her, you take from your wife. I am not going to commend you for not acting on it. I frequent this board daily. I see this a lot. I come here because I like to see men and women fighting for their marriages, truly fighting against all odds. It's inspiring and it helps me somewhat as I have no idea what my marriage vows mean anymore. When I look at my ring, I see my husband having sex with other women. I see my husband thinking, daydreaming, imagining sex with other women. I see my husband flirting with other women while he is at work and I am home taking care of our children. I see a neverending circle of doubt, regret, pain, and confusion. I see myself crying for hours and feeling like someone reached inside my chest and crushed my heart. That's how I felt when I learned of my husband's affairs. 

You say you are trying. You aren't. You're wife is depressed. Why is she depressed? Stop thinking about other women and start thinking about her. You say she cheated on you. So you should know how it feels. Why would you stay with her just to do the same. You should of left back then if you weren't really going to try. You don't even want me to start in on how wrong it is for you to admit feelings to a married woman. What are you thinking? Do not meet with her. Of course she is going to say her marriage is as awful as yours, but have you talked to her husband. Why would you even entertain the idea of being with this woman? You both have admitted to having feelings for each other for years. I bet she says I love you to her husband tonight and then checks her email for a message from you. You aren't just beating your marriage to death, you are taking her down with you. I suggest you end that now. I also suggest you encourage her to go to marriage counseling. You really need to stop thinking about other women. You are doing it for the wrong reasons. What you are doing is looking for a bridge out of your marriage. You are making these other women that bridge. You want out, but you don't want to be alone. People do this all the time. All you are going to do is end up exactly where you already are with a woman just like your wife. And this married OW is just like your wife. You have her on a pedestal right now. Wake up Mr. She is married and has admitted to feelings to you. She wants to meet face to face. I promise you she doesn't want to share cookie recipes with you at that meeting. Why would you want to be in another unhealthy toxic relationship? 

Only you can decide if your marriage is over. But if it is, let it be over for the right reasons. Get out and work on yourself. You are not healthy either. You need individual counseling. Seriously WAKE UP!!! "Be careful in fighting the dragon, lest you become the dragon". You are becoming the dragon whether you see that or not. Your marriage is not going to work if you keep going down this path. You can back up at any time you know. Only stay if you are really going to work on it and give up the other women and the thought of other women. Just my unprofessional opinion.


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