# Spinoff to emotionally unavailable...read this email my



## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

husband just sent me...in response to a few emails to him about how I felt about stuff.

I was/still am worried about him opening up to me, emotionally connecting to me. All of my issues I mentioned in Anon Pink's thread on here. We've been married for almost 10yrs and only this past year have we (especially me) realized what some of our problems are and have moved forward. Yes it took almost 10yrs to realize this but we're making small steps...

Anyways, here is the email (what do you think):

_Ok so I read through all of this all and I know you have some valid points. I see that time (when first kid was born) as a failure for me too. A failure as a husband and father. The two things I care most about being good at. I will prove to you with my actions that things will be better this time. I will be there for anything you need this time. Sometimes I get frustrated when you tell me how great other people’s husbands are to them and how great they are at supporting them. I get frustrated and angry at myself for not being like that when you needed it. I know it will not happen again like that. Maybe I should read parts of the breastfeeding book to? Is there a part in there for husbands?

You were talking about fears the other day and one of my fears that I won’t be a good husband or father and that our family will turn out like my family. My family isn’t all bad but that is not what I want for us. I want us to be a closer family that has fun together. Already, I feel like our family is so far ahead of my family. I can’t remember going on trips together with my parents anywhere. Looking forward to the next baby is exciting for me. This is the time for me when it becomes more real. We only have a little time left that it will just be the 3 of us and I want us to be happy.

I am glad that you see some efforts being made on my part. I know I have a long way to go before I am where I need to be but I am trying. I am going to make an appt with (therapist) and I will tell you when that is as soon as I have a date. I liked reading the book together last night (his needs/her needs) and tonight we can keep reading it. I know we are the right path but you are running on the path and I am walking behind you. I need to catch up with you or I know you will keep running until I can’t see you anymore.

I love you. I love our family._


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Doesn't this seem like baby steps in the right direction? I feel like he's opening up slowly to me, a lot more.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

He wrote this the other day too (as we are continuing to work on and communicate about this), especially recently:

_I have a lot of issues too. Things that I should have worked out and fixed a long time ago. I just never knew they were such a problem. I thought I had quirks that were odd but never to the extent that I know now.

I know a lot of this comes from me not putting my feelings first. I so badly wanted to make you happy and be the person that I thought you wanted and the person I thought you deserved. I do love you and I want you to be happy. I should have told you how I was feeling, I should have communicated more with you to I should have told you what would make me happy. When we first met I thought you were smart, funny and beautiful. I was happy with you and I thought you were happy too and I wanted to make sure you stayed happy. I don’t know where I’m going with this but I just writing down what I am thinking.

I want us to be happy together with both of our needs being met. I don’t want you to hate yourself. I love you and just like you see a good person in me I see a awesome person in you. You continue to amaze me with everything that you. 

Sometimes I think the way I show you I love you is by doing things for you and letting you be in control and call the shots b/c I thought that you liked being in control so I thought that me taking a back seat would make you happy. I know now that the best way to show you I love you is to be honest with you, open with you, take more control and to make myself happy and tell you what makes me happy. _


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

Yellowstar,

Reading this thread and many of your others, your husband sounds like a man that is being both emotionally and mentally battered down by you.
He seems to confused, scared to upset you, walking on eggshells to keep you level.
He doesn't sound like a happy man in a care-free marriage, he sounds like a stressed man in a very stressful marriage.

It sounds as if this man spends so much time apologizing to you, trying to give you some semblance of self worth (which you are clearly lacking from) that he doesn't have the oppurtunity to relax or breathe

He's always waiting on the next blow up from you.

I'm not even in your marriage but just reading about how you're treating him is stressing me out.

Right now he's in the "let me apologize for living" phase, but eventually he'll be in the "this chick is crazy" stage and the next email may well be a good bye letter.

Let up on the guy a bit, you'll both feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

He's groveling. That's not good. And you compared him to other husbands who are better. I would be irate over that. 

I guess it's good that he's engaging in self-reflection. What were the "sins" that you admitted to and promised to correct in your letter to him?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

What do you resent him for?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I really agree with Aribabe. I've read a lot if your posts and I think you need to accept and love your husband for who he is *right now*, not who you want him to be. And comparing him to other people's husband's is just mean.

I've said this before, stop trying to investigate deep issues while you're pregnant. It's not the right time. Let it go.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

aribabe said:


> Yellowstar,
> 
> Reading this thread and many of your others, your husband sounds like a man that is being both emotionally and mentally battered down by you.
> He seems to confused, scared to upset you, walking on eggshells to keep you level.
> ...


Yes, if I didn't make it clear here, I am working on myself. I started to go to IC and have already decided that HE has been a better spouse to me than I have to him. I am already making changes, being patient, not overreacting, not judging, being a better listener, slowly starting to trust (and he is being patient with me), trying to do things for him that he normally he wouldn't ask for (having dinner ready, helping more in the house, telling him to relax, being more receptive to physical stuff--I didn't realize in the past that I turned him down a few times and he took that as I wasn't interested...so he communicated this to me and its been a LOT better). 



VermisciousKnid said:


> He's groveling. That's not good. And you compared him to other husbands who are better. I would be irate over that.
> 
> I guess it's good that he's engaging in self-reflection. What were the "sins" that you admitted to and promised to correct in your letter to him?


There must be some confusion...I think. I didn't exactly compare him to other husbands who are better...we were talking about being successful at breastfeeding this time around and I read him a blog about what partners can do to help. Because we didn't know what we were doing last time, it was chaos and in hindsight (with some other issues about his coworker friend) it was just a bad time for us. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> What do you resent him for?


I don't resent him for anything. I wish he had opened up to me and communicated and told me his needs. I wasn't a fan that his only other friend at one point was a female coworker and I expressed that... it was purely platonic but because I just had a baby at that point I was feeling 'not thrilled' about it... I just wish he was open in the past, communicated better BUT I am accountable for how I reacted--I didn't make it a 'safe' and 'easy' for him to talk to me...I judged, yelled etc. I am owning up for it now and learning/trying to be a lot better.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I think what you want is a strong self-assured husband and the way this is going you may never be satisfied. That needs to come from within he needs to challenge you. You probably are too strong of a personality and that is what he reacts to.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think what you want is a strong self-assured husband and the way this is going you may never be satisfied. That needs to come from within he needs to challenge you. You probably are too strong of a personality and that is what he reacts to.


My 'strong' personality is not always so good and so I am backing down. I don't necessarily need him to be 'alpha' all the time but more often and for us to be more equal. I think so things have slowly started to shift, he likes it. I am working on being less dominating and a better partner to him in general (better listener, trying to fulfill his needs etc...we started His needs/her needs together).


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow! I would be dancing a jig for a reply like that! That sounds like honest proposal to try and an honest admission that being compared to other, better, husbands hurts like hell and just shuts him down. Damn offering to read a book about breast feeding? Thats awesome!

I think those are all very clear signs he loves you and clearly is willing to do what it takes to help you feel loved, even if it's uncomfortable for him. Thats great!

I've sent emails many times... A few days later I get a few sentences back.

I took some erotic selfies a month or so ago. Emailed to him while he was away on business. Two sentences back.. Can't wait to get home to the real thing. Too hard to keep driving safely. Ive never heard his say I was beautiful or anything like that. it took me a week to be able to tell him how hurt I was and that I didn't consider the admission of an erection a compliment. His reply...crickets...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

yellowstar said:


> My 'strong' personality is not always so good and so I am backing down. I don't necessarily need him to be 'alpha' all the time but more often and for us to be more equal. I think so things have slowly started to shift, he likes it. I am working on being less dominating and a better partner to him in general (better listener, trying to fulfill his needs etc...we started His needs/her needs together).


Sounds promising... What I would do is encourage his differences in opinion with you. One thing I was quite pleased with was in conversation it came to the subject of agreement on likes between my wife and I... others in that conversation assumed we agreed on most things and that it was basically her choice.

My wife piped up and said "No he'll let me know honestly if he doesn't like it and then we discuss it and come to an agreement sometimes he sees things I don't"

That was good to hear from her. I knew right then she appreciated being challenged whenever. I think your husband needs the same encouragement... you are probably the same personality as my wife or very similar. Your husband is likely similar to me and needs to grow his more forceful side.

I appreciate my wife's strengths I'm no longer afraid of them we are on equal footing with each knowing when to back down.

The way it should be.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Sounds promising... What I would do is encourage his differences in opinion with you. One thing I was quite pleased with was in conversation it came to the subject of agreement on likes between my wife and I... others in that conversation assumed we agreed on most things and that it was basically her choice.
> 
> My wife piped up and said "No he'll let me know honestly if he doesn't like it and then we discuss it and come to an agreement sometimes he sees things I don't"
> 
> ...



Yep I've been doing that. He said he noticed I'm already being more open. I definitely am encouraging his thoughts, any thoughts, especially conflicts . Nothing major has come up yet BUT I realize HOW I respond will be very telling to him so I'm ready! I love him, his happiness matters to me a lot, he is my love, my life, my everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Wow! I would be dancing a jig for a reply like that! That sounds like honest proposal to try and an honest admission that being compared to other, better, husbands hurts like hell and just shuts him down. Damn offering to read a book about breast feeding? Thats awesome!
> 
> I think those are all very clear signs he loves you and clearly is willing to do what it takes to help you feel loved, even if it's uncomfortable for him. Thats great!
> 
> ...


While I'm sure there is a lot of history here, this seems like an absolutely classic example of why your husband doesn't feel safe being open with you. You send him something, he responds in a way that he feels is appreciative and you shut him down because it wasn't the exact response you were after.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks for acknowledging that there is a bit of history to this one single anecdote.

If your husband made repeated and specific requests for smoked salmon for his birthday dinner, would you serve him fish sticks and expect him to be content with that?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't expect things from my husband that he can't give me. I know that there is just so far he can push himself out of his comfort zone.

I give as much as I can give. He gives as much as he can give. I don't measure and I don't compare.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I took some erotic selfies a month or so ago. Emailed to him while he was away on business. Two sentences back.. Can't wait to get home to the real thing. Too hard to keep driving safely. Ive never heard his say I was beautiful or anything like that. it took me a week to be able to tell him how hurt I was and that I didn't consider the admission of an erection a compliment. His reply...crickets...


In two short sentences he said that he finds you beautiful, sexy, attractive and that he desires you a lot. His response is spot on since you did send EROTIC pictures to him. I'm having a really, really hard time understanding why you were hurt... How can anyone find a positive comment hurtful? :scratchhead:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> In two short sentences he said that he finds you beautiful, sexy, attractive and that he desires you a lot. His response is spot on since you did send EROTIC pictures to him. I'm having a really, really hard time understanding why you were hurt... How can anyone find a positive comment hurtful? :scratchhead:


Umm no, he didn't SAY those things. I am hurt because he didn't say those thing. 

Like I said to Lyris, and she very neatly sidestepped, if you ask for smoked salmon and you get fish sticks how is that a positive? Just cause you got fed? You try doing that for 28 years and see how much love you can continue to give.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Umm no, he didn't SAY those things. I am hurt because he didn't say those thing.
> 
> Like I said to Lyris, and she very neatly sidestepped, if you ask for smoked salmon and you get fish sticks how is that a positive? Just cause you got fed? You try doing that for 28 years and see how much love you can continue to give.


Not trying to thread-jack but I have read your other posts and my "outsider" opinion is that your needs considerably exceed what he is able, or willing, to give. So it could come down to continuing to live with it or moving on if it's a deal-breaker. Because you're frustrated and I'm sure he is as well.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Umm no, he didn't SAY those things. I am hurt because he didn't say those thing.
> 
> Like I said to Lyris, and she very neatly sidestepped, if you ask for smoked salmon and you get fish sticks how is that a positive? Just cause you got fed? You try doing that for 28 years and see how much love you can continue to give.


Presumably you have made it clear to your husband that you would like to hear some flowery language from him? From what you say, I guess you have.

However I have to agree with TheStranger. His response to your erotic pictures is exactly what I would expect most men to respond with and I don't think it is inappropriate or hurtful in itself. Maybe a less erotic picture would have generated the desired response?

It sucks when they don't get it. My husband is highly unromantic and often emotionally unavailable. He isn't going to change fundamentally no matter what I say. So I have had to decide what I can and cannot live with and act accordingly.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yellow, I think it's awesome!  He is showing he CARES and is acknowledging your side.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Umm no, he didn't SAY those things. I am hurt because he didn't say those thing.


I don't get it. What is your interpretation? What did he said then?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> I don't get it. What is your interpretation? What did he said then?


Here is what he said 


Anon Pink said:


> Two sentences back.. Can't wait to get home to the real thing. Too hard to keep driving safely.


Here is your interpretation of what he said


TheStranger said:


> In two short sentences he said that he finds you beautiful, sexy, attractive and that he desires you a lot. His response is spot on since you did send EROTIC pictures to him.


Without going into detail, taking and sending those pics was WAAY out of my comfort zone. WAY OUT! Considering that a constant bone of contention between us is his inability to compliment, his reply, within the context of OUR reality, was pathetic.

If he finds me beautiful, why doesn't he say it? If he thinks I'm sexy, why doesn't he say it? If he finds me attractive and desires me, why can't he say it?

As a man, if you knew exactly the history of your wife, how very hard it was to learn to be comfortable with showing overt sexuality, to put yourself out there in a most vulnerable way, AND she has repeatedly told you that she needed to hear compliments, and you were lucky enough to receive a group of damn sexy pics...don't you think you could have done better than Too Hard to drive, can't wait to get home...


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Thanks for acknowledging that there is a bit of history to this one single anecdote.
> 
> If your husband made repeated and specific requests for smoked salmon for his birthday dinner, would you serve him fish sticks and expect him to be content with that?


If your husband requested salmon for dinner knowing that the sight and texture of raw fish makes you physically ill, and the smell of cooking fish makes you barf in the kitchen sink, would you wonder why he's making that request knowing your difficulties with raw fish?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> If your husband requested salmon for dinner knowing that the sight and texture of raw fish makes you physically ill, and the smell of cooking fish makes you barf in the kitchen sink, would you wonder why he's making that request knowing your difficulties with raw fish?


Hahaha, then one would have to wonder why I married a fisherman! Are you suggesting that my husband might feel physically ill at the thought of giving his wife a complement?

Almost every woman needs to receive compliments, to hear that yes her husband finds her to be pretty, attractive, beautiful, sexy...whatever. This is nearly UNIVERSAL for ALL women. If the thought of saying these words, when in theory you believe them to be true, makes you physically ill, then buddy it is YOU with the problem. Not the woman!


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Umm no, he didn't SAY those things. I am hurt because he didn't say those thing.



I know this thread is not directly yours but we're related a bit...I just wanted to add that my DH would probably respond with something like that, maybe a bit more. Your DH might not state it exactly the way you want it to be said, but you have to understand that is how HE writes/communicates and what his words mean. I think you should give him credit for that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm sorry Yellowstar, this is your thread and Ive hijacked it! 

But no, not giving him credit for that. It's too late in the game. Too many conversations, requests and attempts.


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## Bluecollar (May 23, 2013)

aribabe said:


> Yellowstar,
> 
> Reading this thread and many of your others, your husband sounds like a man that is being both emotionally and mentally battered down by you.
> He seems to confused, scared to upset you, walking on eggshells to keep you level.
> ...



Bingo, I totally agree. My wife can be like this and it drives me nuts. I have to really get on her case and vocalize my dislike for this treatment to get my point understood. It hurts me terribly to be like that to her but we can only take so much of having our manhood verbally stomped on.
The "king of the hill" cartoon(ever seen it?) had a funny part in one episode that was very relevant. The dad takes his son aside and says "son, there is a time of the month for a woman, when everything the man does is wrong, and sometimes you need to just grab a beer and go hide somewhere". I found this to pretty much be the case, not only monthly but continuously after each child was born for several months. The sad part is a vast majority of women will never admit it, when it's perfectly understandable why(hormone changes). Instead it's always something the man did wrong, and they'll dig to find it if they have to...that sock you dropped and didn't see why taking the clothes to the laundry room.....that you didn't put a new roll on when you went to the bathroom in the middle of the night.....etc etc.
From what I see here, you have your fair share of change to work on as well.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Bluecollar said:


> Bingo, I totally agree. My wife can be like this and it drives me nuts. I have to really get on her case and vocalize my dislike for this treatment to get my point understood. It hurts me terribly to be like that to her but we can only take so much of having our manhood verbally stomped on.
> The "king of the hill" cartoon(ever seen it?) had a funny part in one episode that was very relevant. The dad takes his son aside and says "son, there is a time of the month for a woman, when everything the man does is wrong, and sometimes you need to just grab a beer and go hide somewhere". I found this to pretty much be the case, not only monthly but continuously after each child was born for several months. The sad part is a vast majority of women will never admit it, when it's perfectly understandable why(hormone changes). Instead it's always something the man did wrong, and they'll dig to find it if they have to...that sock you dropped and didn't see why taking the clothes to the laundry room.....that you didn't put a new roll on when you went to the bathroom in the middle of the night.....etc etc.
> From what I see here, you have your fair share of change to work on as well.



I mostly agree with this, I did update throughout this thread that I am working on myself. I can't expect a 180 overnight but lets say I've been doing a LOT of reflecting, started IC, and completely changing how I'm treating my husband. I know a lot of it is on me, from issues in MY past, and my personality. I will say, however, that the small 'transgression' (if you want to even call it that--not sure what) that my husband did 2 weeks post partum was NOT ok with me even if I didn't just have a baby. Those feelings were real, I was upset and would have been at any other point, and it wasn't as trivial as leaving a dirty sock on the floor or forgetting to do something small. An OSF who I felt threatened by felt even more threatening to me post partum, husband not being to explain why he looked at her page so often upset me, etc. So I still don't like what happened BUT I ACCEPT I contributed to this, I created this environment, I was not a good listener etc. Do I think he is innocent, yes mostly. 

I accept HE has been a better spouse to me in our marriage than I have to him. I'm committed to being better to him now. He knows this. I am lucky he is patient and that he has allowed me this chance instead of leaving my a$$ sooner. I didn't realize how good I had/have it.

Trust me, I'm working on this.


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## Bluecollar (May 23, 2013)

I see you are working on it and that's good. 
I don't know why but it seems like generally, after childbirth, the woman sub-consciously wants to kick her man to the curb and he wants to go bang other women. I don't know if it's nature/instinct...on both sides even... or the woman trying to drive the man away that causes this, but I see its fairly common. Just like some handle drinking or gambling, some people realize when they need to stop and why, and others have no brakes and let their instincts and desires lead the way into disaster.
If you're realizing the path your on and that its not the right one, that self-awareness itself is a big part of turning things around.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Bluecollar said:


> I see you are working on it and that's good.
> I don't know why but it seems like generally, after childbirth, the woman sub-consciously wants to kick her man to the curb and he wants to go bang other women. I don't know if it's nature/instinct...on both sides even... or the woman trying to drive the man away that causes this, but I see its fairly common. Just like some handle drinking or gambling, some people realize when they need to stop and why, and others have no brakes and let their instincts and desires lead the way into disaster.
> If you're realizing the path your on and that its not the right one, that self-awareness itself is a big part of turning things around.



Yeah we both talked about how it was last time. He admits that we never talked about boundaries before and was unaware of how important they are for us. I said I should have been a better communicator about what I felt comfortable with and whatnot. We also talked about it was just a crazy time, very stressful, on top of issues we both brought into our marriage. This time around we are communicating a lot more, trying to have more awareness about what is going on, what to expect, what we can do to try and prevent stuff and also think more realistically of what happens when baby is born. Also try and make sure we communicate our needs to each other etc. We started His needs/her needs together also  All I know is that pregnancy/newborn time can be VERY stressful. I guess I feel lucky that we are where we are now and are headed on the same path.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

I relate to all your threads, Yellowstar. I have a strong personality and I communicate when I am pissed or upset. My DH is like yours, he is not good at communicating. And I have not provided a 'safe' environment in the past, so when he did try to communicate, I yelled or judged, like you. We're both working on getting better. I hope things go smoothly for you.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Laila8 said:


> I relate to all your threads, Yellowstar. I have a strong personality and I communicate when I am pissed or upset. My DH is like yours, he is not good at communicating. And I have not provided a 'safe' environment in the past, so when he did try to communicate, I yelled or judged, like you. We're both working on getting better. I hope things go smoothly for you.




Thanks Laila, it definitely feels good to know it's not just me and maybe is even somewhat 'normal'  . Things are getting better day by day, I have to remember when things get sticky again, to relax and allow him to "be" without overreacting .

These few more months of being pregnant and first few months with baby are so stressful, I can't wait to move beyond them!


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Without going into detail, taking and sending those pics was WAAY out of my comfort zone. WAY OUT! Considering that a constant bone of contention between us is his inability to compliment, his reply, within the context of OUR reality, was pathetic.


Thanks for giving some context to your picture 'incident'.  This is my view on it: Basically, you have stepped WAY out of your comfort zone to make those pictures and you expected that he steps WAY out of his comfort zone in his response and you were hurt when his response was 'merely' appropriate. 

Pictures were not a gift for him but a test which he failed. This is pretty destructive for your relationship.

When a man has trouble walking you can't expect him to dance or run even if that is what you need. In order to get him to dance with you, you should encourage and support every step that he makes in right direction.

P.S. Perhaps we should move this to your thread here. Spotted it too late.


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