# Does experience make for a better counselor?



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Does it help or hinder that a counselor has experienced the issues they are couonseling? Can a counselor truly be able to help and advise as to what is needed or should be done in a given situation having never experienced it themselves? I know one doesn't have to have been an addict to effectively counsel addiction, but doesn't it seem that it can help to offer the client (and thus the association between the counselor and client) a level of connection and understanding that can't have been gained otherwise?

Does it seem that counselors that have never experienced an issue themselves, such as adultery, infidelity, or addiction, have the true insight that it takes to "suggest" what the parties are feeling and experiencing having never been there themselves. 

This question stems from discussions my WW and I have had relating to the counselor we were visiting. He admits that he and his wife have a great marriage and it is because of the open lines of communication (I can agree to that), but when he suggests that I don't need to know something, or the WW doesn't have to reveal, I feel that I am being played and he has taken her side. We have not been going to this counselor lately as we both agree that we both need to feel comfortable with our decisions, and I just can't when he keeps judging me for my reactions yet says nothing negative about the WW's actions that are causing my grief. I just find it hard to think that someone whom has a perfect marriage, or someone that has never been married and in a serious relationship, can truly counsel someone on what they need having never experienced it themselves. Everyone says that infidelity is the worst thing that anyone can ever experience in their lives and it compares to nothing, so how can a counselor sit there and act like they know exactly what the BS (or WS) is feeling in such situations?

What is everyone's else's thoughts on this?? I am interested to hear all thoughts.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

He likes the 'open communication' with his wife yet he is telling you that you don't need to know and your WW doesn't have to reveal???? Open communication? So secrets are allowed in a relationship then? He sounds like a turkey to me. 
A good counsellor doesn't TELL people things such as you don't need to know or your WW doesn't have to reveal. She DOES have to reveal - as much as you want to know. 
You got a dud. Find another counsellor - just like plumbers, doctors, chefs...there are good ones and bad and I would question his qualifications. Also a professional would NEVER bring up his own relationship & even if you asked he should sidestep the question and talk about openness in relationships in general, NOT in his own one. 
Also I know many may laugh at Dr Phil - but have a look at some of his stuff on YouTube. He's a straight shooter who gets to the point real quick about how relationships.
If your WW isn't revealing stuff to you the counsellor should have long ago explained to her that revealing the truth and details is the FIRST step in the path to recovery (unless you don't want to hear the details, almost all do).
Don't doubt yourself or allow your feelings and wishes to be invalidated by anyone, least of all a so-called counsellor.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, time to go. He's a hypocrite. Now, in some cases he may be right. For some people knowing the full details may destroy reconciliation. Still, if you are frustrated, he is doing a very poor job at communication. If you feel the counselor is siding with your wife, he is doing a poor job. I'd let him know how you feel and if you don't like the reaction, thank him and move on.

Yes, I think in some cases not having experience is good. I mean it is a catch-22. If the counsel;or has experience, you can get the opposite effect. Then the counselor is on your side and the Way Ward isn't getting any help. Then they are posting here asking the same question you are in this forum.

You both are looking for help, so a way wards actions do not deserve to be punished in counseling.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. I feel exactly the way you do. I must clarify, that the counselor we had was not saying she shouldn't tell, just that she has "told enough details" and at some point it is futile for me to request more details as I know enough (like he would know how much is enough for someone else) and that the revealing of the A(s) is enough. He believes we both should come clean of all secrets and lies we are with holding, but that I shouldn't push for lots of details as "in the end it will just be more things to overcome and is counter-productive to reconciliation and healing (as we had both stated that is what we were there for in the beginning. He was willing to help us in whatever way we wanted R or D just wanted to know which way we were leaning towards.). 

As for him revealing his marriage, it was only done on the first day as a getting to know everyone thing and he gave a little background history about him, his wife, and his family. He stated he had good communication within his marriage and that he knew that was the key to his marriage being so strong, as with any marriage and we needed to work on that strong, open communication. 

I do agree though that he is missing the mark and that is why we stopped going (my wife somewhat agreed on this as well, but was a little reluctant since he seemed to defend her and her thoughts against my needing to know details).

As for Dr. Phil. I don't agree with any jack wagon that is a "do as I say, not as I do" type of hypocritical person. He preaches about open communication, truthfulness, honesty, fidelity, and everything that makes a marriage strong, then goes and cheats on his wife and lies about it. He yells and talks down to the people on his show and treats them with the utmost disrespect, while requiring a greater level of respect from them towards him (even after it was revealed about his infidelity). His recent stunt with the rape question posted on Twitter and his lack acknowledgement of any wrong doing or to the public response and outrage just shows the type of character he displays. If that is the way a straight shooter is supposed to work, give me someone that beats around the bush.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, time to go. He's a hypocrite. Now, in some cases he may be right. For some people knowing the full details may destroy reconciliation. Still, if you are frustrated, he is doing a very poor job at communication. If you feel the counselor is siding with your wife, he is doing a poor job. I'd let him know how you feel and if you don't like the reaction, thank him and move on.
> 
> Yes, I think in some cases not having experience is good. I mean it is a catch-22. If the counsel;or has experience, you can get the opposite effect. Then the counselor is on your side and the Way Ward isn't getting any help. Then they are posting here asking the same question you are in this forum.
> 
> You both are looking for help, so a way wards actions do not deserve to be punished in counseling.


We did cut him lose. I didn't like his methods and felt that we were going no where in the sessions. Although he stressed communication, it seemed that we were not learning how to do that, but more just paying him to sit and listen to us talk (the same thing we were doing at home, and the same amount). I saw no techniques being handed out to better our ways of thinking and communicating. 

I was trying to make this post as general as possible and not trying to make this about my counselor. I was more trying to get other's impressions if they thought that it helped or hindered when the counselor had "experience" in the issue they are counseling on? I was more searching for different opinions, so that when I search for the next counselor, I could better gauge the fit and possibilities of receiving helpful counseling and not just lining his pockets.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My experience with this is varied. Some counselors who have had experience with the behaviors that they are advising on have achieved some wisdom and can really help. Others can just be dysfunctional themselves, bringing the same issues that disturbed them in the first place into the counselor's office.

The same goes for the people who haven't had direct experience with every problem they deal with. Some people are wise and empathetic and are trained very well to understand human behavior. Some are not.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm not sure if mine has experience, but at one point I did say "unless you've been through this yourself, you have no idea".. and she looked a tad surprised by my little outburst... so something she said got me, and she changed her tune after I said that.. it was about the only time I was shocked she didn't have my back, but she quickly recovered... She makes us both feel good, I feel she has my back but my wife says she feels good after going to her, she's so positive.., so I guess she has our M's back.. I wondered after that if she does in fact have something in her past to draw on. I wouldn't ask because it's none of my business. I did apologize for my harsh tone, she said she understood.. and no need etc..


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Our first counselor's favourite phrase was "That's what happens in affairs Chris". She did kind of call my WW on her lies and withholding, but just her saying that set us back months and did untold - probably irreparable - damage to our reconciliation and to me personally.

It's only now typing this that I realised just how much trickle truth and lies she enabled as, at the time, my WW was still telling some real whoppers.

We felt that she had, herself, cheated at some point or been a victim of major league rugsweeping although she didn't disclose this (or anything about herself in fact). It took quite a few sessions for us to realise just how bad she was; probably about £600 not just down the drain, but paid to make things much worse.

The 2nd counselor had been the victim of infidelity - twice. She didn't let my WW off the hook at all although she wasn't ever aggressive etc. Needless to say, the WW only saw her a few times and was very reluctant to go again.

Based on this, I would say that it isn't necessary for a counselor to have experience of infidelity as it can be a double edged sword depending on how they, themselves, handled it - but if they accept rugsweeping of any sort then they need to go - pronto.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Recently I had a young Vet who after two sessions asked for another counselor. He felt we did not connect. Frankly, that has only happened a few times with me. It goes with the territory. It has happened to everyone in my office. 

MC is tough. I have read recently that only about 11% of counselors have read books on infidelity. Most focus on domestic violence and substance abuse according to one recent study. In reality it does not take much to learn about what a BS goes through and what a WS goes through. In my own practice I deal with PTSD, anxiety, depression, phobias, isolation, poor coping skills, substance abuse, and other things and very little in regards to infidelity. Since my wife's A's I feel i have a Ph.D. in this crap. I can set aside my own bias in counseling for the most part. I had one case where I was challenged by my co-workers who checked my work. I told them if I felt that I could not do it I would refer the clients to someone else. 

It should be no issue for the counselor if you ask them how they approach infidelity. What their practice involves in this regard, if they have an understanding of both a BS and a WS. 

If you feel your sessions are going in a wrong direction there is nothing wrong with moving on or challenging the counselor on some of the material out there. Some of us learn as we teach and I have been given material on subjects that I was not aware and adjusted accordingly. 

A person does not need to walk in our shoes to understand us, but they do need to understand the dynamics of infidelity from both the perspective of a BS and a WS. If not you are spinning your wheels in MC and as we have heard too often there can be damage.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

fire him, hire someone you find more suitable.

having a bad counselor is far worst than having none at all.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Squeakr,

I don't think that actual experience of an event/issue in life is necessary to make a great counselor.

A good therapist can overcome the lack of direct experience through good common sense.

It definitely helps though if a counselor has 'been there, done that' because it is easier for them to understand what is going on mentally and emotionally with the people they are counseling.

That aside, your previous counselor was an idiot.

If anyone asks me for forgiveness and then tries to hide details from me of what I would be forgiving, then I would call that person insane.

If your counselor supported gaslighting by your WW then he doesn't have a clue about the POV I just expressed.

Plus, if he criticized you for reacting to her betrayal with anger or outrage, thinking you should just rugsweep and move on, then he was a prime grade A moron and you are lucky to have moved on.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Yeah I just think you have a bad counselor.

The experience of those issues can go either way. Lets say he was divorced and his wife cheated.. he may be steering you towards divorce.

The whole point of being in a position like this is that it's a position of power and you have to be objective.

Our MC told us to go on more dates.. after my stbxh admitted to being angry, abusive, throwing things and threatening suicide. 
Um not a good counselor.

I tend to think, as with psychiatry, there are certain methods approved for work with a certain issue and most people stay within those boundaries. 

Addiction is another animal...


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

P.S.. how did your wife react to all of this? 

When we went to MC it also involved IC.. so we had to decide if what was said in IC would be discussed in MC.

Was she standing up and defending that she wants to tell you everything?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

bunny23 said:


> P.S.. how did your wife react to all of this?
> 
> When we went to MC it also involved IC.. so we had to decide if what was said in IC would be discussed in MC.
> 
> Was she standing up and defending that she wants to tell you everything?


She didn't go to IC, but I did with a psychiatrist, as the Dr's could never get my meds right and thought that the psych would help get it straightened out. She supported me in my decisions regarding the counselor, although she still claimed that there was nothing more to tell and that is why she says nothing. 

She compartmentalizes so much that she says she can't ever remember a thing unless she is in that memory block. I have trouble accepting that great of a shut down in her brain and feel that she just doesn't want to tell. Funny how she says she has been this way her entire life, but only remembers to tell me about it after her As and 19 years of being together. She doesn't seem to want to visit anything and just move one (rug sweep) yet when she is mad she remembers everything she says is negative that I have ever done or said in our lives together. Funny and strange how my issues never make it into a locked memory block. I pointed this fact out and she didn't like it at all. If she can in fact block that well, I told her that she is purposely trying to not visit those blocks, or she is lying to me (yeah that would be a first) that she can't access them.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> A person does not need to walk in our shoes to understand us, but they do need to understand the dynamics of infidelity from both the perspective of a BS and a WS. If not you are spinning your wheels in MC and as we have heard too often there can be damage.


:iagree: 

This. In a nutshell. I only want to add that it can take several _months_ of trial and error to find a counselor who's a 'good fit' for you and your spouse. Some counselors will offer a free 15-20 minute 'session' so you can feel each other out. That's the time you can use to present your questions about how they might approach certain issues and what their beliefs are. If for example you find someone who believes that the affair is something that the couple should 'get over' asap so you can work on the "real" issues, you may want to _keep looking_! If you ask who they see as 'at fault' for the affair, and they hem and haw with their answer, it's time to get up, shake their hand, and tell them you're going to keep on looking. 

You can also ask the counselor what books they've read on infidelity (and name a few yourself). If they've said 'no' to most or all of them, you may want to keep on looking.

I went through literally _2 *dozen*_ counselors before finding one who was worth her weight in gold! It took me approximately 6 weeks to find someone. 

Vega


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Vega said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This. In a nutshell. I only want to add that it can take several _months_ of trial and error to find a counselor who's a 'good fit' for you and your spouse. Some counselors will offer a free 15-20 minute 'session' so you can feel each other out. That's the time you can use to present your questions about how they might approach certain issues and what their beliefs are. If for example you find someone who believes that the affair is something that the couple should 'get over' asap so you can work on the "real" issues, you may want to _keep looking_! If you ask who they see as 'at fault' for the affair, and they hem and haw with their answer, it's time to get up, shake their hand, and tell them you're going to keep on looking.
> 
> ...


Great advice. I just wish that there were that many counselors available in my area to pick from. Most are booked solid for 6 months out. Is infidelity that common place and vogue now??


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry if I offended you in any way Squeakr. It's sometimes necessary to know more details e.g. he gave you a background on himself and his opinion on open communication by way of an introduction which is absolutely fine. 
I guess all of us on here are hurt and what we write may not always be wise. 
I just felt that you should at least feel validated and heard and not have the added concern that the counsellor might be siding with your partner. This is a hard journey you both. I feel a good counsellor would give the strong impression of being objective. Also your partner would need to feel that they are in a 'safe' space. 
I read a great piece on the web, a letter written by a man to his wife explaining why he needed to know everything. I showed it to my partner and he did say it brought it home to him (though he is not trying the way your partner seems to be). As it's long, I will post it under a new thread titled "To my partner - the reason I need to know" 
As for Dr Phil, a friend with relationship problems showed me a few short clips on YouTube. He's not the type of person I would usually pay attention to - too overbearing, loud, bully tactics etc but I did think he got to the core of things in a sentence on a few occasions. I like one-liners that sum things up. Had no idea about his personal life OMG!!!!
I wish you well on your journey and great kudos to you and your partner for the effort you are both making. You both deserve a good counsellor and I hope you find one. I don't think it matters whether they have experienced it themselves. They will have seen clients' reactions often enough and should therefore very well understand the reactions of both people involved and what they are going through which are all probably very similar and have a pattern much as they do in these forums.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

86857,
No need to apologize. I was not offended in any way. The personal details were initially left out as I was more trying to spark conversation and get others opinions on what they thought. I was trying to make the post very generic and no situational specific asking for advice. This post could have easily been a poll, but I really don't care for them. Instead I posted it to spur discussion as it interested me what others thought on the subject. My intent was more along the lines of the "does being cheated on change the BS" post that currently exists. I do appreciate all opinions and thank you for your kind words and well wishing. I am sorry if you felt that I was being defensive or upset by your comments as that couldn't be farther from the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## havenrose33 (Aug 7, 2013)

This is our second round with marriage counseling. Our first counselor was 20 years ago, and he was a good counselor, but as I look back now, I realize that he was a little too *soft* with us. We didn't really get to the root of our issues. We have only had six sessions with our new counselor, and after the first two sessions I did not want to go back to her. She seemed rather gruff...and was straight to the point. But, as time has gone on I have come to realize that is what we really need. She has made it clear that she is just there to help us learn to communicate, but MOST of the hard work will come from what we chose to do after every session. After session number three she asked us to not keep going back to all our resentments unless we honestly felt it would be a productive conversation. That has been very difficult for me, but I do get that there were times when I would bring things into our conversations....that I knew would NOT be productive in any way. I usually brought things up just to punish and hurt my husband. When in the end.....it did nothing to help me move on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A councillor doesn't have to have experienced something to be able to provide counselling.

However, they do have to have empathy with the people they are counselling.

Your councillor, in my opinion, lacks empathy.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Sure glad to know that Squeakr


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