# Does it take two to derail a relationship?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

There was a question brought up in another thread that i have often wondered about and thought deserved a thread of it's own. It seems the agreement is that when a wife doesn't want sex, it usually is because her husband isn't fulfilling her emotional needs; she doesn't feel excited, loved, and respected. I assume this doesn't just happen overnight, so, what is the wife's responsibility, along with the husband, to keep it from getting to this point? I'm not talking about a marriage where the husband is abusive or suddenly turned idiot, I'm talking about a seemingly "good" relationship that somehow derails due to not meeting each other's needs. How does this happen?

During the discussions before my divorce, my x wife told me that I didn't give her what she needed emotionally, but she said I did the first ten years of our marriage. She said she "waited for me to change back," but I never did. Honestly, I didn't notice the negative change within myself, but i suppose I may have slacked off due to not getting my sexual needs met. I suppose I didn't feel loved or respected either due to that. I didn't just decide one day to stop giving her what she needed, I guess it just came naturally in the beginning and naturally waned as my needs were not met, but somehow I was the heel for not meeting her needs. 

She waited for me to change, so apparently she thought I was the only one that needed to change. I recently saw an interesting episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond"(I know, it's just a tv show), where they were having sexual issues. The wife said he wasn't giving her variety and she shouldn't have to ask for it because after being married 10 years he should know her. He asked, "well, shouldn't you know me too?" In other words, if he is the type that doesn't pick up on things like he should, shouldn't she know that and perhaps try something other than just "suffering in silence"?

For those wives who no longer enjoy sex because your husband isn't meeting your needs, can you pinpoint when it started and why? Did you try to keep your husband on track and he just ignored it? Once a marriage gets to the place that the woman needs romance to have sex, and the man needs sex to want romance, that is a tough place to bi in.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

southbound said:


> There was a question brought up in another thread that i have often wondered about and thought deserved a thread of it's own. It seems the agreement is that when a wife doesn't want sex, it usually is because her husband isn't fulfilling her emotional needs; she doesn't feel excited, loved, and respected. I assume this doesn't just happen overnight, so, what is the wife's responsibility, along with the husband, to keep it from getting to this point? I'm not talking about a marriage where the husband is abusive or suddenly turned idiot, I'm talking about a seemingly "good" relationship that somehow derails due to not meeting each other's needs. How does this happen?


It's called communication.

I didn't quote the rest of your post, but basically it seems like you are reviewing things with 20/20 hindsight. You don't have that benefit when you are actually in the relationship.

Talk about your problems, but talk before they become a problem. People think that because there isn't a problem, you don't need to talk. Wrong, that's when you need to talk the most. It's so much easier to bring up a problem when you first notice it and say "Hey, I noticed the past few weeks we haven't been intimate as much. Is everything ok?" Than to wait a few years and accuse her of being a frigid ***** for not having sex while she calls you a lazy ass for not wanting to take her out for a couple's date or a weekend away.


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

Nope, it does NOT have to take 2.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> It's called communication.


:iagree:

Without communication, a marriage is sure to go downhill. Your wife should have talked to you about the issues instead of expecting you to be a mind reader. 

With a little communication, things may have been fixable. Of course we all know you can't change someone. If she expressed to you that you weren't meeting her emotional needs and you didn't put forth the effort to change, then I could see her giving up. Unfortunately she didn't even give you a chance.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

i always hated the whole circle of Well i changed bc you stopped doing this. Well I change bc YOU stopped doing that!

It's chicken/egg nonsense.

It takes two to make a relationship and it takes two to break a relationships.Unless one is mentally unstable and has major emotional problems...they can ruin a relationship single handed.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> i always hated the whole circle of Well i changed bc you stopped doing this. Well I change bc YOU stopped doing that!
> 
> It's chicken/egg nonsense.
> 
> It takes two to make a relationship and it takes two to break a relationships.Unless one is mentally unstable and has major emotional problems...they can ruin a relationship single handed.


Not to derail this thread here, but I do disagree sort of.

Cheaters for example. Serial cheaters do have problems, but someone who cheats once may not have a mental issue or a problem, yet that one act can deral a marriage completely (and understandably so). There are other similar examples as well.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It's up to the person with the need to communicate that need to their spouse. Expecting someone to read your mind never works.

But to answer your thread title. One person can absolutely derail a relationship. Happens all the time.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Many of the unhappy spouses on the boards HAVE talked to their H or W, many many times but because of poor communication skills or anger or depression or even over working etc issues don't get resolved. So some folk just give up... stop working on the marriage, stop desiring affection/sex, stop being best friends.

So either party can derail the relationship by disconnecting, I've seen it many times in the relationships of friends and family..usually results in divorce or simply a stink marriage where everyone stays...suffering..

But IMO both parties have an equal responsibility to work on/strengthen the marriage. It's a partnership.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> It's up to the person with the need to communicate that need to their spouse. Expecting someone to read your mind never works.
> 
> But to answer your thread title. One person can absolutely derail a relationship. Happens all the time.


I think the OP is focusing on the marriages that start well and where both spouses are apparently happy and neither has cheated or been abusive. Then all of a sudden (again apparently) one has checked out. I think that happens because many people have a talent for self-deception or an aversion to conflict, meaning that they convince themselves to be happy or at least silent when they are not or will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable conversation and then when the dam breaks and the resentment pours out the original problem is revealed x1000. 

In those cases it really is the problem of both spouses. One has caused pain and the other hasn't reacted to it sufficiently. There's an unfair expectation that one should just know what the other is thinking. That's just asking for trouble. Men and women will always perceive things differently. The only way to compensate for that is through clear verbal communication.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

VermisciousKnid said:


> I think the OP is focusing on the marriages that start well and where both spouses are apparently happy and neither has cheated or been abusive. Then all of a sudden (again apparently) one has checked out. I think that happens because many people have a talent for self-deception or an aversion to conflict, meaning that they convince themselves to be happy or at least silent when they are not or will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable conversation and then when the dam breaks and the resentment pours out the original problem is revealed x1000.
> 
> In those cases it really is the problem of both spouses. One has caused pain and the other hasn't reacted to it sufficiently. There's an unfair expectation that one should just know what the other is thinking. That's just asking for trouble. Men and women will always perceive things differently. The only way to compensate for that is through clear verbal communication.


Oh so excellently expressed here. :smthumbup:

Even in our marriage.... my husband leans towards being a "conflict avoider".... he is not the type to welcome confrontation...... I am so far different from this sort of personality... I guess I didn't realize others DO this.... if/when I have an issue, you are going to hear about it...not in a mean way, but at it's tender roots... no grass grows under my feet either. 

So when I was digging not too long ago, after I thought I dug to the depths already on where we missed each other .... asking more questions about his *FEELINGS *during those years..... He told me towards the end, he started wanting me to "suffer" like he was....why his initiating slacked off.....how he was slowly building resentment towards me over wanting more sex. Thinking back though, when I came onto him...he never pushed me away...maybe a very slight hesitation at 1st.... so how in the world was I to know he was feeling like that! (I guess he didn't have the will power!)... I told him he really sucked at trying to get the message across! 

I must say I was blindsided by this.......I had a moment where I felt our whole marraige was a LIE ....this threw my emotions into a whirlwind.... I WAS SO HAPPY the whole 19 yrs.......and to learn he was NOT .... :wtf:....... 

I cried when he shared all of this, I needed to hear it....How he must have felt, how I did him wrong....He didn't deserve any of it ..... then my emotions swung the other way....I was *furious* with him for putting himself down like that..... what right did he have to keep that from me....How dare him!! .... In this way, we both suffered -when you think about it -this robbed him of the vibrant fullfilled husband he could have been. No wonder I wasn't jumping to take him down every night. 

He is a part of US... was I that difficult to come too.....I hardly think so. He had options. In his defense, he said it wasn't THAT bad, comparing the guys at work & their wives, he had it pretty damn good...didn't want to rock the boat.....at least I needed sex every week and initiated ! 

I told him if he ever does this BS to me again, I am going to put his balls in a vise (gotta use a little humor) .....Dagone it ... I don't go for that. Express yourself and your needs .....Be assertive...open up the dialog....Come to me so we can reason together.... for our mutual happiness. 

It's in the bag now. We did talk about everything else under the sun in our marriage, just not sex.....Believe it or not. 

So many avoid talking about the "emotional", the vulnerable also. To learn these things in our youth -before we marry. How much heartache it can all save...if both truly care to please each other......and make it work come hell or high water.


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## MindOverMatter (Jul 1, 2012)

It takes two people to form a relationship.

But trust me, it doesn't necessarily require both of them to derail one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does it take two to derail a relationship? 
Sometimes, not always.

There are circumstances in which it only takes one person to break a marriage. Some of these are mental illness, drug/alcohol addiction, porn addiction, video game addiction, serial cheaters, or a person unilaterally checks out of the marriage.

But all of that aside, it takes two.

You might have changed. But did your wife tell you of her issues? Did she tell you what she needed long before she decided to get a divorce? IMHO, if she did not tell you then she is the one who has the greatest responsibility for the failure in the marriage.

If on the other hand she did tell you but you did not listen and/or refused to work on the marriage with her then you are more at fault.

There are ways to get a marriage back on track. It’s really not all that hard, it just takes love and commitment and the right guidance. If a couple was in love once, they can fall back in love again.

There is some very good material available for building and/or fine tuning a marriage. See the links in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage. 

Note that two of the links in particular are ones that a couple should learn to use often… “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”. Once a couple learns to do what these goods teach they can use the concepts over and over as they both change over time to get back on track.

My suggestion is that the couple read the books together and work on the exercises together… then do it every so often. There are also very good marriage retreats that help with these sorts of things.

Another good book is “Divorce Busting”. 

For example if your wife felt that you had changed, it was her obligation to tell you what she was feeling and what she needed. If she did not know what she needed, it’s her obligation to figure out what she needs and to tell you. You cannot be a mind reader. It does not work that way.

Unfortunately we don’t each kids about how to have a strong marriage and family. These book alone would make a great course for teens and college aged kids to give them a good start in life. Unfortunately most of us discover these kinds of help after it’s too late to help the current marriage.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

It's a cycle. The less sex she gives you, the less drive, ambition and other attractive traits you display and the less ex she gives you. It's an ugly, ugly dance.


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## wife29 (Jun 12, 2012)

My low sex drive came about when I was breastfeeding my first baby. I had 0 sex drive due to exhaustion and hormones I am guessing. I never thought about sex once during that time except for when I was doing it just for my husband. Due to my low sex drive my husband started pulling away emotionally. It was a pretty bad cycle. Then after having kids I find out that he didn't really want to spend time with the kids, and that really upset me. When I would have tears in my eyes and he would walk out of the house to spend time with his friends and not stay with me and our 1 y/o and 3 y/o which I had been pretty much alone with the entire day I sure had no sexual feelings when he finally returned home. I sure don't feel that it was my fault that sex went away due to the fact that the reason I got in that situation was due to us both making a decision to have children, however I do know that at some point one of the partners has to stop and think about what they are doing and do the best they can to turn things around. No matter whose fault it is. One person really can really break the cycle and rescue their marriage if they want to.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

wife29 said:


> My low sex drive came about when I was breastfeeding my first baby. I had 0 sex drive due to exhaustion and hormones I am guessing.


In one of my books all about various hormones & their effects ...one of the very 1st subjects it goes into...was how Breastfeeding -which releases *Prolactin* does to a woman's sex drive.... this one couple almost divorced over it, she had no idea where her sex drive went, it was at ZERO...and he was going crazy! When they learned this was a temporary thing ...it helped them deal with it. Prolactin causes a reduction in testosterone levels- which reduces libido. Also makes orgasm more difficult. 

Breastfeeding Hormones - Dad's Guide (Or Where Did My Wife Go?!)


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh so excellently expressed here. :smthumbup:
> 
> Even in our marriage.... my husband leans towards being a "conflict avoider".... he is not the type to welcome confrontation...... I am so far different from this sort of personality... I guess I didn't realize others DO this.... if/when I have an issue, you are going to hear about it...not in a mean way, but at it's tender roots... no grass grows under my feet either.


Two conflict avoiders will run in to trouble quickly! In your case you can keep the lines of communication open - if your spouse doesn't communicate that is his problem. But I think even one avoider can screw things up depending on how completely they avoid conflict. 

The other side of the coin is that a spouse can start out not being an avoider, but get pushed in that direction when the other spouse isn't receptive or is a responsibility avoider. What's the point of raising issues when one spouse is not receptive? Again, I'm talking about basically well adjusted people, not people with serious personality problems. Unfortunately, that's the situation I'm in. My W has more dodges for not discussing my grievances than you can imagine. But she affords her grievances the highest priority. In her mind she doesn't avoid conflict she just believes that all grievances are trivial compared to hers. It's a tough situation to deal with.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

VermisciousKnid said:


> In those cases it really is the problem of both spouses. One has caused pain and the other hasn't reacted to it sufficiently. There's an unfair expectation that one should just know what the other is thinking. That's just asking for trouble. Men and women will always perceive things differently. The only way to compensate for that is through clear verbal communication.


I think another problem is assigning motives to your spouse, or thinking you know what they are thinking.

During our down period after the third child, I got a lot of rejection in the form of "I am too tired." So any inidaction of her being tired I took as rejection. Even if she promised a rain check the previous evening, I would not approach if she talked about how tired she was from the days activities. While hashing this out in a discussion/argument, I realized that I was trying to read her mind, rather than talk to her. I assumed she was rejecting me (not unreasonable) while she was just saying lets get to bed earlier for our time (also not unreasonable).

Communciation could have (and did) fix this.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

I think under normal circumstances, it usually takes two to derail a relationship (or at least create the rift of problem(s) ) but I think in some relationships, one can absolutely derail it all on their own. That's why communication is so very vital to a relationship and if it's lacking, the relationship usually dies.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> You might have changed. But did your wife tell you of her issues? Did she tell you what she needed long before she decided to get a divorce? IMHO, if she did not tell you then she is the one who has the greatest responsibility for the failure in the marriage.
> 
> If on the other hand she did tell you but you did not listen and/or refused to work on the marriage with her then you are more at fault.
> 
> For example if your wife felt that you had changed, it was her obligation to tell you what she was feeling and what she needed. If she did not know what she needed, it’s her obligation to figure out what she needs and to tell you. You cannot be a mind reader. It does not work that way.



My wife didn't tell me any of this stuff until the year she asked for the divorce. It's like it just suddenly hit her that she was done. I had no idea things were that serious with her. She told me she had been miserable for years. I certainly saw no signs of misery, and neither did anyone around her. Sure, we had things we didn't see eye to eye on, but I didn't realize it was driving her to divorce. Being that she was the one so miserable, I just don't think she made much of an effort to communicate that. Instead, she was just sitting around silent waiting for me to change back. And yes, she did expect me to be a mind reader.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

southbound said:


> My wife didn't tell me any of this stuff until the year she asked for the divorce. It's like it just suddenly hit her that she was done. I had no idea things were that serious with her. She told me she had been miserable for years. I certainly saw no signs of misery, and neither did anyone around her. Sure, we had things we didn't see eye to eye on, but I didn't realize it was driving her to divorce. Being that she was the one so miserable, I just don't think she made much of an effort to communicate that. Instead, she was just sitting around silent waiting for me to change back. And yes, she did expect me to be a mind reader.


Hi southbound ~

I think that it takes only ONE person to start the derailment, but it takes the other one jumping on board to complete it.

From the posts I've seen of yours over this last year, and the introspection and thought you have been giving your relationship while married, I hope that you can get to some kind of closure.

One thing to keep in mind, is that even though no one is a mind reader, there are more ways than just words with which to communicate.

I think that your wife likely communicated a lot in non-verbal ways - with her body language and her lack of sexual interest in you, with her words and her actions not matching - that should have been clarion calls that all was not well.

Employing the use of your eyes and observation can be a powerful tool to use in any relationship, as effective, if not moreseo than the verbal word - as often people's words and their actions don't always match up.

Best wishes.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

V,
Always loved that name from the first time I heard it. 

For repetitive grievances and a spouse that is inclined to dismiss you, there is a simple solution:
- a very shorthand means of conveying what it was you didn't like
- some proportional consequence that you mete out without further discussion. 

Ideally the consequence is subtractive. Meaning you remove something from your routine that you normally do.

This is behavioral shaping and done well, it's effective. 



VermisciousKnid said:


> Two conflict avoiders will run in to trouble quickly! In your case you can keep the lines of communication open - if your spouse doesn't communicate that is his problem. But I think even one avoider can screw things up depending on how completely they avoid conflict.
> 
> The other side of the coin is that a spouse can start out not being an avoider, but get pushed in that direction when the other spouse isn't receptive or is a responsibility avoider. What's the point of raising issues when one spouse is not receptive? Again, I'm talking about basically well adjusted people, not people with serious personality problems. Unfortunately, that's the situation I'm in. My W has more dodges for not discussing my grievances than you can imagine. But she affords her grievances the highest priority. In her mind she doesn't avoid conflict she just believes that all grievances are trivial compared to hers. It's a tough situation to deal with.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Hi southbound ~
> 
> I think that it takes only ONE person to start the derailment, but it takes the other one jumping on board to complete it.
> 
> ...


You are probably correct about the non-verbal communication. I guess i was just too ignorant to realize something was really wrong with the rest of the relationship. We never had any other issues in our marriage that most would consider hard-core issues, and we rarely argued. She usually used "being too tired from work" as the main reason, and she said her sister only had sex about once every 4 months with her husband, so she didn't seem to think it was an issue. I wish i had found this site years ago.


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## Anomnom (Jun 25, 2012)

I feel like my marriage is on a downward slide. I communicate that I have issues (lack of sex from him) and he doesn't do anything to try to fix it. I'm not saying that I expect him to ramp up his libido, I just want him to acknowledge that we have problems and discuss it, but to him our marriage is great and there's nothing to discuss. 

I just know that if we seperate it will take him by surprise..this is because even though I clearly tell him we have problems (for years), he doesn't acknowledge it or take me seriously.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

Maybe not the most enlightening answer... But I look at it like this...

Excluding: addiction, illness (mental/otherwise), abuse, criminal behavior....

Breakdown involves lack of communication like others said, being all types, verbal, non-verbal, physical, blunt, subtle...

It also can be simplified to this...
An action creating a reaction
A reaction creating a chain of actions
Or simply standing by (ignoring, checking out, silent treatment)

So I say yes, it takes two to tangle...
Just because you stood by not partaking, your apathy contributes... And trust me, people can do the damnedest things when they feel they are being ignored....

If you were watching from the ground as a plane crashed, it's not your fault, there was nothing you could do, but as the copilot if the pilot was losing control and screaming for help, if you sat there doing nothing, can you say you had no part in it?


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