# THAT look



## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

There is already a lot of discussion on the web about that encounter with the Native American and the smug college guy and I'm not posting to discuss who is the aggressor in this or whatever. Nor do i want to discuss the politics with the hats, or anything in detail about this specific event.

The video with the Native American is for obvious reasons linked to white privilege and issues of race.

But from a woman's point of view, I wonder how many of you can relate to THAT look from a guy? The way that some guys say so much without saying anything at all. When I watched that video it triggered me and sent chills up my spine. I come from a poor family and never had the right clothes or said the right things - shy and not very confident in myself. At different times I had encounters with guys that had THAT look in their eyes. THAT smug smile. THAT laugh. The way they give you THAT look and what it means.

Like saying to you, "I always get exactly what I want. Just try to cross me and you'll be sorry". They don't even have to say it. THAT look says it all and they know you understand.

I wonder if other women can relate to this and if you've also come to know THAT look like I have in HS and college or elsewhere and you've unfortunately had to learn it's very clear and strong meaning? I also wonder if you trigger sometimes like this did for me? THAT look scares me.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I only relate to what you've written in that people in general are capable of giving looks meant to convey powerful emotions.

Groups of boys harrassing people isn't new. The young being disrespectful to the old isn't new.

Saying that this sort of thing triggers you _is_ new.

So, I'm curious - and this isn't meant to be snarky at all - when you say this triggers you, what does that mean? What do you think? What do you feel?

Does it make you uncomfortable? Are you flooded with memories of past experiences?

And when you get triggered, what do you do with that? How do you take responsibility for yourself?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Yes. Many times.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Since you trigger so easily...perhaps a hair trigger?...and yet are clearly concerned about feminist social agendas, I think perhaps a black full niqab with a pink knit *****hat will be just the thing to make sure no leering, self-important, self-confident male ever gets in your face.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I've gotten that look from other women WAY more than I've ever gotten it from a man.

Then again, I dont go around looking for "oppression from the patriarchy."


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Can a woman come to the LADIES LOUNGE to express HER feelings and experience without getting slammed? Just. Maybe? Or not.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> Can a woman come to the LADIES LOUNGE to express HER feelings and experience without getting slammed? Just. Maybe? Or not.


Thank you NS. I don't have a feminist agenda and I'm actually quite "traditional" in my views on most things.

The more women who have no idea what i'm talking about the better. The more women who could not relate to the women who spoke out in the supreme court confirmation, the better.

Unfortunately I can relate to these things too strongly.

I hope seeing this kid's eyes and smug smile didn't trigger anything in anyone else. I hope I'm alone here.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Can a woman come to the LADIES LOUNGE to express HER feelings and experience without getting slammed? Just. Maybe? Or not.


Sure. But, since she was talking about a man and all that toxic masculinity, she should have made it clear that she was just whining, venting and expressing angst in a public form, but didn't want anyone from the public to express another other opinion other than hers. 

Otherwise, its fair game...you know, like a XX chromosome type person writing in the Mens Clubhouse about erections.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

23cm said:


> Sure. But, since she was talking about a man and all that toxic masculinity, she should have made it clear that she was just whining, venting and expressing angst in a public form, but didn't want anyone from the public to express another other opinion other than hers.
> 
> Otherwise, its fair game...you know, like a XX chromosome type person writing in the Mens Clubhouse about erections.


Except that I was writing about my love of erections, and specifically asked men to share their thoughts.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I've gotten that look from both genders. And I have given that look before, I admit. Honestly, I have learned to just dismiss people who make a habit of it because it isn't my issue; its theirs.

Sometimes Shakespeare's words, "methinks thou protests too mych" is true. I mean, who are they trying to convince with their superior condescension....themselves perhaps?


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Except that I was writing about my love of erections, and specifically asked men to share their thoughts.


Okay, so I get it....The context of the encounter doesn't matter--i.e., who the aggressor was. It's the white college boy's "look." It just takes us white privileged, sex privileged, plumbing privileged creatures a bit longer to understand non sequiturs... Oh, by the way, in a simpler time in the early days of affirmative action, I a graduating college senior, was once told by a college recruiter working for The Washington Post, the following:

If you were a woman, I'd probably hire you.
If you were a black man, I'd hire you.
If you were a black woman, I'd lose my job if I didn't hire you.
But, sorry....

And, I remember but I don't trigger when I open the WaPo.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> There is already a lot of discussion on the web about that encounter with the Native American and the smug college guy and I'm not posting to discuss who is the aggressor in this or whatever. Nor do i want to discuss the politics with the hats, or anything in detail about this specific event.
> 
> The video with the Native American is for obvious reasons linked to white privilege and issues of race.
> 
> ...


The guy in the photo is one of these modern young men who believes he is untouchable.He is like these guys on tv who “prank” innocent passers by with ridiculous acts and if he is called out or gets a well deserved slap,is quick to involve the police, and law suits soon follow.
They are raised with such a sense of self importance that is impossible to make them understand normal behavior.
It is a symptom of anti masculinity,these guys are the ones who don’t play team sports because they hate physical interactions with other men,they know plenty of guys want a chance to hit back.
It’s the age of the wimp and they have their moms say so.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

23cm said:


> Okay, so I get it....The context of the encounter doesn't matter--i.e., who the aggressor was. It's the white college boy's "look." It just takes us white privileged, sex privileged, plumbing privileged creatures a bit longer to understand non sequiturs... Oh, by the way, in a simpler time in the early days of affirmative action, I a graduating college senior, was once told by a college recruiter working for The Washington Post, the following:
> 
> If you were a woman, I'd probably hire you.
> If you were a black man, I'd hire you.
> ...


The OP shared her own thoughts. That’s all that has happened here.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

To be accurate it was a Catholic high school with some pre-pubescent attention ***** turd trying to get his 15 mins of fame and look cool for his buddies. He's an immature, hormone raging,(and I'd venture spoiled rotten) teenager with no life experiences. He's extremely lucky he didn't get the teeth knocked out of that stupid grin, and if he keeps it up it WILL happen. That's when his lesson will be learned.
You being triggered by an idiot juvenile doesn't say much about your maturity either. Being triggered period is just not being able to control your own emotions. Look at the Native American elder in that clip. Does he look triggered? Nope, that's because he can control himself.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you NS. I don't have a feminist agenda and I'm actually quite "traditional" in my views on most things.


Is the "feminist agenda" as awesome as the gay agenda was? I mean, if I am being told that I have one every time I am here, at least I should know what it is! Here's hoping it's cool.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Yeah, as a man, I've had THAT look from both men and women, though I wouldn't describe myself as "triggered". I'm sure it's relevant that the kid is in front of his friends, and in my opinion, teenagers of both sexes are, and always have been, pretty horrific. (See "Lord of the flies" for example).


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> Is the "feminist agenda" as awesome as the gay agenda was? I mean, if I am being told that I have one every time I am here, at least I should know what it is! Here's hoping it's cool.


Ha! yes. I don't know what that means either. It's just that someone seemed to be implying that i posted this to further some sort of agenda. I just wanted to share how I felt when I saw that and ask if any other WOMEN could relate.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you NS. I don't have a feminist agenda and I'm actually quite "traditional" in my views on most things.
> 
> The more women who have no idea what i'm talking about the better. The more women who could not relate to the women who spoke out in the supreme court confirmation, the better.
> 
> ...


I don't get triggered. I think it has happened once ever. But I do get tired of it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> Ha! yes. I don't know what that means either. It's just that someone seemed to be implying that i posted this to further some sort of agenda. I just wanted to share how I felt when I saw that and ask if any other WOMEN could relate.


Yah. Well here is a whopping count of one.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Lol and now extended footage show it was the elder activists who were the aggressors.

The race baiting worked perfectly on those biased and unintelligent enough to buy it hook line and sinker.

Happy Sanctity of Life Day everyone.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Lol and now extended footage show it was the elder activists who were the aggressors.
> 
> The race baiting worked perfectly on those biased and unintelligent enough to buy it hook line and sinker.
> 
> Happy Sanctity of Life Day everyone.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, as a man, I've had THAT look from both men and women, though I wouldn't describe myself as "triggered". I'm sure it's relevant that the kid is in front of his friends, and in my opinion, teenagers of both sexes are, and always have been, pretty horrific. (See "Lord of the flies" for example).


GAH! Lord of the Flies is FICTION.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, as a man, I've had THAT look from both men and women, though I wouldn't describe myself as "triggered". I'm sure it's relevant that the kid is in front of his friends, and in my opinion, teenagers of both sexes are, and always have been, pretty horrific. (See "Lord of the flies" for example).


I'm not talking about random looks of superiority that anyone could give. Believe me, I grew up very poor and I know what that feels like and I learned about that very young. I got it from teachers when I wore the same clothes for the fourth day in a row. Or when my family walked into a store. But i'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about that look that I've experienced when a guy thinks (knows) he can do or say anything to you and you can't do anything about it. I was asking women if they could relate to this. I can't really describe it well. It's a look. An aura. A power. A feeling.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> Laurentium said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, as a man, I've had THAT look from both men and women, though I wouldn't describe myself as "triggered". I'm sure it's relevant that the kid is in front of his friends, and in my opinion, teenagers of both sexes are, and always have been, pretty horrific. (See "Lord of the flies" for example).
> ...


Ah, in that case, I really can't relate. The only person I've seen that from was one woman who was my supervisor at the time.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm not talking about random looks of superiority that anyone could give. Believe me, I grew up very poor and I know what that feels like and I learned about that very young. I got it from teachers when I wore the same clothes for the fourth day in a row. Or when my family walked into a store. But i'm not talking about that.
> 
> I'm talking about that look that I've experienced when a guy thinks (knows) he can do or say anything to you and you can't do anything about it. I was asking women if they could relate to this. I can't really describe it well. It's a look. An aura. A power. A feeling.


Yes, I get it. I'd say I've had it from police officers, and (like POI) also from a female supervisor. Exactly that look in the video. There is a threat in it, not just superiority. The supervisor eventually got me fired because she didn't like me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My take on it is that this thread is based on a false premise.

As often happens, people are assuming that they know the intent of the high school student. 

Have you seen the new videos coming out? The high school students did not surround the American Indian guy with the drum. Instead, he walked across the street, beating his drum and walked into the middle of the high school kids. The American Indian was staring down the kid.

Apparently that particular guy, the American Indian, is well known for pulling stunts that when video taped and edited make him look like the victim.

Are you all aware that more videos are coming out and that one video that we saw first does not tell the whole story?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> I'm talking about that look that I've experienced when a guy thinks (knows) he can do or say anything to you and you can't do anything about it. I was asking women if they could relate to this. *I can't really describe it well. It's a look. An aura. A power. A feeling.*


I think Andy1001 nailed this in post #12.




EleGirl said:


> My take on it is that this thread is based on a false premise.
> 
> As often happens, people are assuming that they know the intent of the high school student.
> 
> ...


 After a little more digging I found the same, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes, as usual. What concerns me more is that when something this un-newsworthy gathers such a head of steam it's usually to cover some liberty robbing dirtbag action in DC by our elected officials. Can't wait to find out what that will be.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like that look is definitely about who has power and who doesn't. 

I grew up in a time and place where even white, middle class American females had little power but for whatever reason I didn't experience that (or -- maybe -- if that look was ever aimed at me it just didn't register).

Sorry you experienced that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think Andy1001 nailed this in post #12.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The kids were there for the March for Life. There were waiting on the steps of the memorial waiting for their bus home. They were being taunted by groups of people. And it went down hill from there. Take a look at what was going on around the kids when this all when down.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> The kids were there for the March for Life. There were waiting on the steps of the memorial waiting for their bus home. They were being taunted by groups of people. And it went down hill from there. Take a look at what was going on around the kids when this all when down.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzJU1L-1VrE


 I think we are agreeing here. That video proves the slant the network wants is the one that will be portrayed. I've seen a handful of videos that "support" all of the sides. The loudmouth in that video wasn't a Native American, so there were at least 3 groups present and at least 2 being there as a counter-protest for the march for life. It's all theater to distract. If you want to fear or be triggered by anyone the hypocritical loudmouth saying those "dusty ass crackas are racist" would seem to be more of the threat.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think we are agreeing here. That video proves the slant the network wants is the one that will be portrayed. I've seen a handful of videos that "support" all of the sides. The loudmouth in that video wasn't a Native American, so there were at least 3 groups present and at least 2 being there as a counter-protest for the march for life. It's all theater to distract. If you want to fear or be triggered by anyone the hypocritical loudmouth saying those "dusty ass crackas are racist" would seem to be more of the threat.


Yes we are in agreement. 

That one group saying things to the kids like "dusty ass crackas are racist" just sound like nut jobs. They were also yelling at the kids that they were the results of incest... well and a whole lot more out of line stuff.

It's amazing that there were so many adults there acting badly, but the media wants to make it look like the kids were the ones acting badly.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> It's amazing that there were so many adults there acting badly, but the media wants to make it look like the kids were the ones acting badly.


 Not to point out the obvious but if they weren't wearing MAGA hats you wouldn't have heard a peep, and if they had been wearing pink ***** hats they would have been the victims. It's all bull**** distractions.

The first group sounded like westboro baptist church fruitloops.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> There is already a lot of discussion on the web about that encounter with the Native American and the smug college guy and I'm not posting to discuss who is the aggressor in this or whatever. Nor do i want to discuss the politics with the hats, or anything in detail about this specific event.
> 
> The video with the Native American is for obvious reasons linked to white privilege and issues of race.
> 
> ...



To be honest, and I’m not a woman, but this look (I guess you are referring to the smug smile of the boy in front on the chanting Native American?) projects utter stupidity to me, devoid of anything meaningful.

Is it possible you have a (wonderfully) vivid imagination? You should put it to good use. Have you considered writing books? Or blogs at least? You have an unusual mind (judging from your posts), self awareness combined with vivid imagination is a potent combination for creativity.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Like I said, you have to WANT to be biased to believe the teenage prolifer were the villains here.

Not that I'm surprised.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> My take on it is that this thread is based on a false premise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It’s completely irrelevant who the aggressor is or what this scene is all about as far as OP’s post is concerned...The OP was referring to ‘the look’ that is supposed to project implied (sexual?) power over someone (and no, I don’t think he’s horny for the Native American).

My only contention is that this guy looks too dumb to another guy to be taken seriously...But I know what she means. 
Submissive women tend to be more...prone to react to such looks. My feeling is that not many other women will admit even if they do sometimes feel ‘powerless’ at times under a man’s strong gaze, whether deliberately or not. 


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The group that is yelling is not Christian or from Westboro.

The big mouth guy is from some Messianic/Hebrew Roots cult, saying he is from the House of Israel, and the tribe of Ephraim. They are not Jewish but say that the promise of God to the Israelites in Jeremiah 31 is to them. Some of them claim to be Jewish, just because they use the name "Yeshua" for Jesus, and because they love Israel. There is a book published by someone who claimed that anyone who loves Israel is descended from the Jews but just doesn't know it. They say that the tribe of Ephraim is made up of "lost" Jews, or people who weren't raised Jewish, but must have a Jewish relative centuries back. 

There are Messianic groups made up of all ethnic groups, including Hispanic and Black. Each of the claim they are descended from Jacob by claiming they are Ephraim and are of the "Lost Tribes of Israel." They try to adhere to the Old Testament Laws, and also believe in Jesus. You can hear someone say the name "Yeshua" which is Jesus' name in Hebrew, which means Salvation in Hebrew. 

Many Messianic/Hebrew Roots are led by individuals who are not accountable to any oversight organization. Most of them are like little mini cults full of angry people who are angry at Christianity and the world in general. They think they have the truth, and they mock Christians because Christians don't practice the OT laws. Messianic cults take scriptures from all over the Bible and turn them on their head, reinterpreting them to mean that all people should practice the laws, and that anyone who does not is condemned by God.

https://answersingenesis.org/presuppositions/dangers-hebrew-roots-movement/


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> It’s completely irrelevant who the aggressor is or what this scene is all about as far as OP’s post is concerned...The OP was referring to ‘the look’ that is supposed to project implied (sexual) power over someone (and no, I don’t think he’s horny for the Native American).


You, the OP, me and everyone else have no idea what the kid was thinking when he made 'that look'. So using him and his 'look' as the poster child for some kind of toxic masculinity is nonsense. 



inmyprime said:


> My only contention is that this guy looks too dumb to another guy to be taken seriously...But I know what she means.
> 
> Submissive women tend to be more...prone to react to such looks. My feeling is that not many other women will admit even if they do sometimes feel ‘powerless’ at times under a man’s strong gaze, whether deliberately or not.


I'm a woman. You don't need to explain to me that some me make a point out of trying to make women feel 'powerless'. I've had that happen so many times that it does not work anymore... I just laugh and move on.

I've also experienced some women pulling some sort of look on me that they think tells me that they are superior. Which clearly means that they are just stupid women with over inflated egos.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The story seems to be falling to pieces. It looks like the events might have been misreported.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You, the OP, me and everyone else have no idea what the kid was thinking when he made 'that look'. So using him and his 'look' as the poster child for some kind of toxic masculinity is nonsense.



Im not sure I understand what you are saying. How does ‘toxic masculinity’ come into this at all? Nobody has mentioned it.

It’s not about what the kid was thinking - no one is claiming to know what he was thinking. The OP was wondering whether anyone else felt the sensation of feeling powerless under someone’s gaze because something in that look triggered her. The only thing I am not sure about is whether it’s a positive or negative trigger for her...Maybe she can explain better?




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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> What? I don’t understand what you are saying. How does ‘toxic masculinity’ come into this at all? Nobody has mentioned it.
> 
> It’s not about what the kid was thinking - no one is claiming to know what he was thinking. The OP was wondering whether anyone else felt the sensation of feeling powerless under someone’s gaze because something in that look triggered her. The only thing I am not sure about is whether it’s a positive or negative trigger for her...Maybe she can explain better?


What does that kid have to do with men giving women a "look"?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> What does that kid have to do with men giving women a "look"?




Why not ask the OP?

From her post: “But from a woman's point of view, I wonder how many of you can relate to THAT look from a guy?”


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

But as it looks like the alleged victim is now looking like an alleged perpetrator and the young man a victim, then "The look" might be subject to any number of different interpretations.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> It’s completely irrelevant who the aggressor is or what this scene is all about as far as OP’s post is concerned...The OP was referring to ‘the look’ that is supposed to project implied (sexual?) power over someone (and no, I don’t think he’s horny for the Native American).
> 
> My only contention is that this guy looks too dumb to another guy to be taken seriously...But I know what she means.
> Submissive women tend to be more...prone to react to such looks. My feeling is that not many other women will admit even if they do sometimes feel ‘powerless’ at times under a man’s strong gaze, whether deliberately or not.
> ...


Thank you. You seem to be the only one who at least understands my post - not saying you agree or relate - just that you at least understand.

As I clearly said (and you clearly understand), I did not want to discuss or debate this particular incident or whether the video is what it appears or who was the aggressor or anything political. That does not matter to me in what i'm trying to say. That part of this is being debated all over social media so better to debate that elsewhere. Likewise when I mentioned the judge cavenaugh hearings. As related to what i'm saying, it didn't matter if she remembered wrong or he was guilty or innocent. I could just relate very strongly to what she was saying with the laugh, etc. I think many of us have "been there".

Looks can mean different things to different people so I don't think we need to speak literally about only this specific guy's look. Some may see it in him specifically and others may not. Whether he looked just silly to some or serious and threatening is less interesting. As someone else said, nobody knows what this specific guy was thinking or the full context of it all so let's not get caught up on that. I was just describing what I felt when I saw that.

Maybe I project weakness to men and i attract this sort of thing from some guys. Like I said, maybe it's just me. I have no idea. I'm introverted and shy and have a small stature so maybe that being part of my aura does not help project strength to others. I don't know. Hard to see yourself as other people do. Maybe as you say I'm overly prone to react to (or notice) these looks. So perhaps it's a combination that I attract more overt projections of sexual power and at the same time i'm more sensitive to it. I don't know. 

Anyway, i'm having trouble expressing myself properly here and people are misunderstanding all kinds of things. Clearly it's reflecting very poorly on me with many and I'm not sure why. If you can't relate to it then like i said in another post, consider yourself lucky. I used the term "trigger" and I didn't mean that i lost control of myself or freaked out as someone seemed to interpret. I meant that it just gave me some flashbacks and memories and made me uncomfortable. I'm kinda sorry that i started this thread to be honest.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> But as it looks like the alleged victim is now looking like an alleged perpetrator and the young man a victim, then "The look" might be subject to any number of different interpretations.


Yes, of course. I just described how it made ME feel and asking if anyone else could relate to this --- or anything like this. Maybe not in this specific case but in others they've seen or words they've heard. I mentioned the cavinaugh case with her description of the laughter, etc. It's not about this specific event and who was to blame or anything like that. They could have all been perfectly nice people just acting in a movie. It's just an image that got to me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> Maybe I project weakness to men and i attract this sort of thing from some guys. Like I said, maybe it's just me. I have no idea. I'm introverted and shy and have a small stature so maybe that being part of my aura does not help project strength to others. I don't know. Hard to see yourself as other people do. Maybe as you say I'm overly prone to react to (or notice) these looks. So perhaps it's a combination that I attract more overt projections of sexual power and at the same time i'm more sensitive to it. I don't know.



Oh it’s not a ‘weakness’! It’s actually a tremendous power, you just have to know how and when to use it! Any woman will tell you this (sorry, I’m not a woman).
It’s just a shame it can’t find expression in your marriage because that’s where it should belong, at the end of the day.



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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> To be honest, and I’m not a woman, but this look (I guess you are referring to the smug smile of the boy in front on the chanting Native American?) projects utter stupidity to me, devoid of anything meaningful.
> 
> Is it possible you have a (wonderfully) vivid imagination? You should put it to good use. Have you considered writing books? Or blogs at least? You have an unusual mind (judging from your posts), self awareness combined with vivid imagination is a potent combination for creativity.
> 
> ...


Like i said in other posts, different looks mean different things to people and it's not so interesting to try to go into the weeds on this specific case. It was an example. I was simply reaching out to other women to see if they ever felt like this and could relate to how this made me feel. Different people perceive things differently so I certainly don't expect a man to understand this and many women may not either.

I don' tknow about how creative i am (maybe this is just a nice way for you to say that I don't have a grip on reality or whatever) but I might be more self aware than most. And aware of others' behavior. I notice details and nuances in things. As an introvert I listen and observe more. While everyone is talking away and desperate to be heard, i'm there listening and thinking. While others may be quick to react to everything without thinking, I often keep my reactions to myself. But it doesn't mean that I have not noticed things or that i'm naive to not know what's going on.

So much for opening up and seeing if other women can relate to what i felt. My default thinking is to just keep things in and think about it rather than share and maybe that's the best approach! My experience on this thread suggests that this is the best way.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> (maybe this is just a nice way for you to say that I don't have a grip on reality or whatever)



It really wasn’t. There is nothing wrong with being impressionable and at the same time being aware of being impressionable. Actually it’s quite rare.
I noticed you often put yourself down or view positive things in a negative light or as a reflection of (what you perceive as) your short comings. 
I hope you can at some point turn those things around and draw strength from what makes you, you, instead. I think you have all the right intuitions to do this.



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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Like i said in other posts, different looks mean different things to people and it's not so interesting to try to go into the weeds on this specific case. It was an example. I was simply reaching out to other women to see if they ever felt like this and could relate to how this made me feel. Different people perceive things differently so I certainly don't expect a man to understand this and many women may not either.
> 
> I don' tknow about how creative i am (maybe this is just a nice way for you to say that I don't have a grip on reality or whatever) but I might be more self aware than most. And aware of others' behavior. I notice details and nuances in things. As an introvert I listen and observe more. While everyone is talking away and desperate to be heard, i'm there listening and thinking. While others may be quick to react to everything without thinking, I often keep my reactions to myself. But it doesn't mean that I have not noticed things or that i'm naive to not know what's going on.
> 
> So much for opening up and seeing if other women can relate to what i felt. My default thinking is to just keep things in and think about it rather than share and maybe that's the best approach! My experience on this thread suggests that this is the best way.


It’s just how TAM is. I’m sorry Just the Wife, I honestly also don’t share anything of this type here because I know in advance it will just get shot down. Need some thick armor around here. It’s not that you should keep things to yourself, hopefully you have other friends to share stuff with, but at TAM there just is not a place where we can be that vulnerable because we can’t really be totally honest without getting ripped apart. So I don’t feel safe sharing any similar thoughts to your OP either, as you can see by the responses. I’m sorry your point was kind of lost here. I did get it and understood it.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s just how TAM is. I’m sorry Just the Wife, I honestly also don’t share anything of this type here because I know in advance it will just get shot down. Need some thick armor around here. It’s not that you should keep things to yourself, hopefully you have other friends to share stuff with, but at TAM there just is not a place where we can be that vulnerable because we can’t really be totally honest without getting ripped apart. So I don’t feel safe sharing any similar thoughts to your OP either, as you can see by the responses. I’m sorry your point was kind of lost here. I did get it and understood it.


Thank you FW. I'm not blaming the men on here for this but much of the ripping was done by men. I naively thought that in the Ladies Lounge there might be a different tone around things like this. I don't expect that the Ladies Lounge is just ladies nor am i saying that it should be but is it wrong to expect that men would act like "guests" in the ladies forum? Particularly as I asked about a woman's perspective, why would men jump in and jump all over me and make me feel like I'm wrong for feeling (as a woman) how I felt? I think that I would have a different tone in the men's forum if I was eavesdropping there and wanted to say something. If a guy is opening up about something there I assume that he wants to talk more "man to man" and if I did want to share my opinion, I would do it in that context rather than just jump all over him.

Unless men posting in the ladies forum and women posting in the men's forum take a different tone than they would otherwise, then what's the point of these separate forums by gender? I think that making your post of this kind (opening up about how you feel) in either the ladies or men's forum has an implied request that it's dealt with in this context. Like it's an appeal for greater understanding generally and specifically a little more delicate handling by "guests" of the other gender. That's how I see it anyway.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> It really wasn’t. There is nothing wrong with being impressionable and at the same time being aware of being impressionable. Actually it’s quite rare.
> I noticed you often put yourself down or view positive things in a negative light or as a reflection of (what you perceive as) your short comings.
> I hope you can at some point turn those things around and draw strength from what makes you, you, instead. I think you have all the right intuitions to do this.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Some people think too much and I'm one of those people. Sometimes it makes life more difficult. Thank you again for your kind words for me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I watched the first video and didn't think anything of the kid's look other than he has an under-bite and was patiently enduring the elder's drum pounding. If he had been malicious, his eyes would have revealed his feelings about the man.

It's been my experience that people who pull the 'smug' look do so because they are feeling fearful or inferior. It's a self defense mechanism.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

And some are still blind to the fact that it was the ADULTS who were being ugly and aggressive lol


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

JustTheWife said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > But as it looks like the alleged victim is now looking like an alleged perpetrator and the young man a victim, then "The look" might be subject to any number of different interpretations.
> ...


Except that, like these teenagers, Kavanaugh is innocent too.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Why not ask the OP?
> 
> From her post: “But from a woman's point of view, I wonder how many of you can relate to THAT look from a guy?”
> 
> ...


Looks like you just answered your own question about where the relation to toxic masculinity comes from.

If the contention is that "THAT look" only comes "from a guy," the implication is clear.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s just how TAM is. I’m sorry Just the Wife, I honestly also don’t share anything of this type here because I know in advance it will just get shot down. Need some thick armor around here. It’s not that you should keep things to yourself, hopefully you have other friends to share stuff with, but at TAM there just is not a place where we can be that vulnerable because we can’t really be totally honest without getting ripped apart. So I don’t feel safe sharing any similar thoughts to your OP either, as you can see by the responses. I’m sorry your point was kind of lost here. I did get it and understood it.


I think some members, female and male might take issue with your statement "It's just how TAM is."

Someone makes a judgemental statement and other people question that?

And that's wrong in what way?

Nobody was ripped or shot down.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Guys/girls,
I think you are making it uncomfortable for JTF by making this thread into something it isn’t. She just has a bit of a ‘bad boy’ thing going on and something in that clip made her think of it and she was just asking if other women could relate to it. That’s it. There’s no implication or judgement on her side. She was somewhat shamed for it by just one poster unfortunately and misunderstood by pretty much everyone else.
It’s really not a very complicated question.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I think some members, female and male might take issue with your statement "It's just how TAM is."
> 
> Someone makes a judgemental statement and other people question that?
> 
> ...


Wow, you’re taking me to task for stating my opinion?

The OP was asking a very specific question of women in her post. She was not talking about the issue behind the video. Everyone else made the issue about the video. She was talking about her own experience and asking if other women have had it. She even asked people not to make it about the politics because she wanted to talk about something far different than that. She never insulted anyone or made any judgementat statements. She was just seeking support and common stories from women if they had any, and she didn’t get that. 

That’s just the way TAM is. Yes, that’s my opinion, and yes it happened right here.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

"I think the idea of white privilege is absolutely reprehensible. And it's not because white people aren't privileged. You know, we have all sorts of privileges, and most people have privileges of all sorts, and you should be grateful for your privileges and work to deserve them, I would say. But, the idea that you can target an ethnic group with a collective crime, regardless of the specific innocence or guilt of the constituent elements of that group, there is absolutely nothing that's more racist than that. It's absolutely abhorrent."- JP


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow, you’re taking me to task for stating my opinion?
> 
> The OP was asking a very specific question of women in her post. She was not talking about the issue behind the video. Everyone else made the issue about the video. She was talking about her own experience and asking if other women have had it. She even asked people not to make it about the politics because she wanted to talk about something far different than that. She never insulted anyone or made any judgementat statements. She was just seeking support and common stories from women if they had any, and she didn’t get that.
> 
> That’s just the way TAM is. Yes, that’s my opinion, and yes it happened right here.


You don't think that people should be questioned on their opinions on an open forum? Oh. OK.

The point behind the original post is that the expression on the face of someone was interpreted in a certain way.

There was in that opening statement an inherent value judgement based on the belief that the young man pictured was smug, arrogant, racist, etc., etc.

It might be he was thinking any number of totally different thoughts, perhaps positive.

This indicates that judging people on appearance can be a bad idea, either on the Internet or in real life.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The problem may stem from the interpretation of "THAT look". The OP saw it as a smug look and it reminded her of looks she has seen in the past as related to her and her family. It looks like some other posters also saw it as a smug look. Some of us didn't. Oh, well. There was no intent to shame the OP.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> You don't think that people should be questioned on their opinions on an open forum? Oh. OK.
> 
> The point behind the original post is that the expression on the face of someone was interpreted in a certain way.
> 
> ...


Just The Wife has tried to clarify several times now that she wasn’t trying to make a judgement about the kid, she was talking about the look she has felt intimidated by before that to her looked similar to the kids look on the video. She tired to say it was just an example and she doesn’t know what the kid was thinking. She was trying to talk about herself and her own experiences. Others made it about the video.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Males obviously aren't the only gender that can project a smug or put-down look but since they're the ones who have made you uncomfortable then perhaps analyzing the circumstances under which you get that look? Is it always from strangers or also from people you know? Do you project a strong, confident image or something else? What do you do when you see that look from someone?

PS
Women and men both at times mention the cross-over posting on the two forums. You can request only female (or male) posters to respond but that doesn't mean that's what you'll get. Just ignore what you're not interested in.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> You don't think that people should be questioned on their opinions on an open forum? Oh. OK.
> 
> The point behind the original post is that the expression on the face of someone was interpreted in a certain way.
> 
> ...


 I expect now this doesn't pertain to whatever rabbit hole this thread went down but this is straight from the horse's mouth, the kid himself. I perceived the CNN (agenda much?) video wrong on first view and I think this clarifies it pretty well. "That" look was someone trying to de-escalate.

https://www.toddstarnes.com/campus/...e-character-assassination-of-my-familys-name/


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just The Wife has tried to clarify several times now that she wasn’t trying to make a judgement about the kid, she was talking about the look she has felt intimidated by before that to her looked similar to the kids look on the video. She tired to say it was just an example and she doesn’t know what the kid was thinking. She was trying to talk about herself and her own experiences. Others made it about the video.


This is 100% right. I don't know that particular guy nor do I know the circumstances in enough detail to definitively say who's right and wrong. And I have zero interest in debating this specific event and who's to blame, etc. That's not interesting to me. Same for Judge Kavenaugh. Everyone has their opinion and there are plenty of places on the internet where everyone is shouting their opinions of who's guilty and innocent, etc like they are experts. I even anticipated that it might have the tendency to turn into a politically or culturally charged debate that has nothing to do with my point. So I very clearly prefaced my point in my OP.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just The Wife has tried to clarify several times now that she wasn’t trying to make a judgement about the kid, she was talking about the look she has felt intimidated by before that to her looked similar to the kids look on the video. She tired to say it was just an example and she doesn’t know what the kid was thinking. She was trying to talk about herself and her own experiences. Others made it about the video.


And I was pointing out that perhaps deciding that someone was giving a certain look might not be the case?

There was a fictional programme on the BBC some years ago. One of the characters had an (unfair) reputation for leering at women.

He pointed out that on one occasion when he was accused of leering at a woman he had actually merely being thinking about what he was going to have for his evening meal.

And sort of expecting that the reality of the video that was mentioned would not be commented on was never going to happen. 

It's not possible for that to happen, especially when the person concerned was misidentified as being smug, etc.

It might have been helpful to have chosen some stock images of smug people to illustrate a point that @JustTheWife was trying to make?

But hindsight is always 20/20!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you FW. I'm not blaming the men on here for this but much of the ripping was done by men. I naively thought that in the Ladies Lounge there might be a different tone around things like this. I don't expect that the Ladies Lounge is just ladies nor am i saying that it should be but is it wrong to expect that men would act like "guests" in the ladies forum? Particularly as I asked about a woman's perspective, why would men jump in and jump all over me and make me feel like I'm wrong for feeling (as a woman) how I felt? I think that I would have a different tone in the men's forum if I was eavesdropping there and wanted to say something. If a guy is opening up about something there I assume that he wants to talk more "man to man" and if I did want to share my opinion, I would do it in that context rather than just jump all over him.
> 
> Unless men posting in the ladies forum and women posting in the men's forum take a different tone than they would otherwise, then what's the point of these separate forums by gender? I think that making your post of this kind (opening up about how you feel) in either the ladies or men's forum has an implied request that it's dealt with in this context. Like it's an appeal for greater understanding generally and specifically a little more delicate handling by "guests" of the other gender. That's how I see it anyway.


As I see it, there are two different issues here.

One is the your point that some men give a look to women that is unsettling. You describe that well and many women on this thread, myself included, have said that we have experience it and get what you are saying.

Many of the men on this thread have said that they understand as well.

The other issue is the one that I brought up initially, that apparently the look on that boy's face had nothing to do with what you are talking about. While the look on his face might have triggered you, he had nothing to do with you being triggered. You chose to be triggered over your misinterpretation of what the boy was doing.

My take on it is that its wrong to use people, especially children, in this way. How do you that your post would impact that boy? Have you ever been attacked by the entire nation/world on social media? That boy and his family are getting death threads. 

Maybe the reason that I'm sensitive to the social media attack on this kid because it happened to my niece a few years ago. She was physically attacked by someone who is very well known and often in the news. The attack was pretty bad, her jaw was cracked. But guess what happened. The media and social media turned on her and acted as though she was the one who did something wrong. My family had to monitor social media so that we could report the death threats and threats of physical harm to the FBI. One night alone I had 35 pages of death threads.... some very scary like the guy who posted that he was on the sidewalk outside her apartment waiting for her so he could kill her. From what the guy said, knew where her apartment was. Her father, brother and a couple of other men had to go get her and she had to vacate her apartment. She moved in with her mother.

The harassing and abuse of this boy caused by main stream media and social media is a horrible thing. He did nothing wrong. I'm sorry but this thread is simply one more thing on social media attacking and disparaging a boy. I'm sure you did not mean it that way, but it is.

Please think about this from the viewpoint of the boy.

You said that this thread now makes you concerned about expressing your feelings. I think that this thread is interesting and that it might actually help you understand more about yourself. I know that it's real that some men give 'that look'. But how many times are you misinterpreting someone's look just as you did with this boy? How often are you giving people power over you that they do not have because you give meaning to their facial expression that they do not even intend? We all do thins from time to time. We give negative power to people because we feel powerless. Maybe you, like so many of us, would benefit from figuring out why we do this. Why give power to people who don't have it and who might not even be trying to impose any power? No one has that kind of power over you. All you need to do is to walk away from them to impose your own power... which you have in abundance if you will just own it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow, you’re taking me to task for stating my opinion?
> 
> The OP was asking a very specific question of women in her post. She was not talking about the issue behind the video. Everyone else made the issue about the video. She was talking about her own experience and asking if other women have had it. She even asked people not to make it about the politics because she wanted to talk about something far different than that. She never insulted anyone or made any judgementat statements. She was just seeking support and common stories from women if they had any, and she didn’t get that.
> 
> That’s just the way TAM is. Yes, that’s my opinion, and yes it happened right here.


To be fair, you took a lot of the people on this thread to task for stating our opinion. All of us have the right to voice our opinion on this thread. 

I'm not tying to be harsh with you, FW, only stating the obvious.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> To be fair, you took a lot of the people on this thread to task for stating our opinion. All of us have the right to voice our opinion on this thread.
> 
> I'm not tying to be harsh with you, FW, only stating the obvious.


My wife cannot read facial expressions. _*At all*_. (ASD)

One time she accused me of glaring at her. I laughed and said: "All I was thinking was 'do I suggest fish and chips or a Chinese takeaway meal?'" :grin2:

This was reality imitating art.

The show I alluded to was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-de-Hi!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> To be fair, you took a lot of the people on this thread to task for stating our opinion. All of us have the right to voice our opinion on this thread.
> 
> I'm not tying to be harsh with you, FW, only stating the obvious.


Ele, perhaps you have me mixed up with others posting on this thread. I posted #9 and #13, both in defense of myself from another poster. I posted #48 to state MY opinion that it isn't really safe here to talk about "the real issue" that the OP has. I did not take anyone to task for stating their opinion.

I then made 2 posts to Matt and now this one. 

I have never cared one way or the other about the opinions people are sharing about the video, that's just normal TAM. I have not commented at all about the video itself. I have been talking to the OP about what she actually wanted to say, and my opinion about how that's not really going to be possible here.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> As I see it, there are two different issues here.



It’s neither of these two issues.
I for one would be interested in the issue that OP actually wants to discuss. Men talk about it, I brought it up on some threads (because my wife has similar tendencies) and some women who were similar were kind enough to contribute too (and nobody shut them down).
It’s a tricky subject though.

It’s less to do with ‘TAM being the way it is’ but more to do with some of the prejudice that some people hold against the OP who have an issue with her past and try to punish her for it.
It’s not ok.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ele, perhaps you have me mixed up with others posting on this thread. I posted #9 and #13, both in defense of myself from another poster. I posted #48 to state MY opinion that it isn't really safe here to talk about "the real issue" that the OP has. I did not take anyone to task for stating their opinion.
> 
> I then made 2 posts to Matt and now this one.
> 
> I have never cared one way or the other about the opinions people are sharing about the video, that's just normal TAM. I have not commented at all about the video itself. I have been talking to the OP about what she actually wanted to say, and my opinion about how that's not really going to be possible here.


Post $48 takes posters to task for stating their opinions.

#48


Faithful Wife said:


> *It’s just how TAM is. I*’m sorry Just the Wife, I honestly also don’t share anything of this type here because I know in advance it will just get shot down. Need some thick armor around here. It’s not that you should keep things to yourself, hopefully you have other friends to share stuff with, but at TAM there just is not a place where we can be that vulnerable because we can’t really be totally honest without getting ripped apart. *So I don’t feel safe sharing any similar thoughts to your OP either, as you can see by the responses.* I’m sorry your point was kind of lost here. I did get it and understood it.


It's ok to not agree with what others say and to even say that you do not agree. But once you do that, it's kind'a silly to then be offended when someone who says that they do not agree with what you posted.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> It’s neither of these two issues.
> I for one would be interested in the issue that OP actually wants to discuss. Men talk about it, I brought it up on some threads (because my wife has similar tendencies) and some women who were similar were kind enough to contribute too (and nobody shut them down).
> It’s a tricky subject though.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but I have no prejudice against the OP. Nor do I want to punish her for her past and issues as I have no idea what they are. I doubt that most of those who think that using this school kid as the poster child for 'that look' is not cool know what her past and issues are either. Not everyone reads every post.

If the OP wants to talk about 'that look', perhaps she could start a thread that does not use a school boy and put a meaning being his facial expression that did not even exist.

I agree that some people are arrogant, or mean, or whatever and give looks that they think will give them some kinds of power or superiority. Let's talk about that and how to handle it without using a school boy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Post $48 takes posters to task for stating their opinions.
> 
> #48
> 
> ...


Ele, you can read it how you want. But I was stating my opinion that this is just the way TAM is to the OP. I was not naming anyone or taking them to task. I am myself also resigned to the fact that this is just the way TAM is. 

Then after I stated my opinion, Matt took ME to task for stating MY opinion.

Here was my point in case it was missed.....

The OP wanted to talk about something other than what the thread turned into. I was trying to be supportive to the OP, and in that process stated my opinion that what she wanted to talk about can't really be talked about here. I was also acknowledging to her that she has been thread jacked by the video discussion.

That's it. Just my opinion, not taking anyone else to task for sharing their opinion. I was being supportive to the OP, she has been thread jacked and her issue still hasn't been discussed. That is all I have ever said. I do not care either way what people are saying about the video and have made no comment about it. I was supporting the OP who I felt wasn't heard.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ele, you can read it how you want. But I was stating my opinion that this is just the way TAM is to the OP. I was not naming anyone or taking them to task. I am myself also resigned to the fact that this is just the way TAM is.
> 
> Then after I stated my opinion, Matt took ME to task for stating MY opinion.
> 
> ...


It is not possible to use a controversial "real world" event to illustrate a point and to expect people to not comment on the "real world" event that was chosen.

Under these specific circumstances there was no threadjack.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> It is not possible to use a controversial "real world" event to illustrate a point and to expect people to not comment on the "real world" event that was chosen.
> 
> Under these specific circumstances there was no threadjack.


The OP still has not been able to discuss what she initially wanted to discuss because everyone else is discussing the video but....ok, sure, there is no thread jack.

You are right, the OP made the mistake of using a real world event and that took precedent over the entire point she actually wanted to make and therefore, the thread IS about the video NOT her point. So no thread jack. I get it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> The OP still has not been able to discuss what she initially wanted to discuss because everyone else is discussing the video but....ok, sure, there is no thread jack.
> 
> You are right, the OP made the mistake of using a real world event and that took precedent over the entire point she actually wanted to make and therefore, the thread IS about the video NOT her point. So no thread jack. I get it.


If the OP wants to discuss intimidating (or otherwise) looks that some men sometimes give her (and other women) she can do so. I suggest that she open another thread on the topic that does not implicate a boy as the poster child of her topic.


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