# Wife finally admitted to affair from 20 yrs ago ... need someone to talk to



## Holden43

Married in 95 while still in college. In 8/98 I took a job in a big city to start career. I moved a month before her to get settled. Affair started while I was in new city and she was still in old. With a guy we both knew and had worked with. Story from her perspective is a big group were out for drinks, some of them went back to his place after bars closed. They all crashed on couches and floor then in the middle of the night he wakes her up and tells her she can sleep in roomates room upstairs since he's gone. Then proceeds to start calling her name for her to come in his room. She finally does and gets in bed with him. He tries, she says no. Next day she realizes she left her wallet and goes back to get it, they start talking, he appeals to her emotions (more on that in a second) and they have sex. When she moves up to be with me they continue talking on the phone. She had several trips to go back and see her friends and sometimes (she says 3) they would get together again. He even picked her up at the airport once, a 90 minute drive. She admits to having feelings for him but she doesn't think she was in love. After this going on for about 6 months around 12/98 he offered to pay for her to move back to be with all her friends and him. That's when she broke it off. She saw him again at a wedding in 9/99 and says thats last time they have seen or talked to each other. While this was happening a friend told me he heard she was having an affair, I confronted her and she lied ... for the next 20 yrs. Then 2 weeks ago we were having an argument about an ex boyfriend she cheated on me with while we were dating and she admitted to the affair. A few factors worth noting: We were not in a good place at the time. I was moving her away from all her friends, her mom practically disowned her bc we were moving far away. In our first 3 years of marriage she had to have surgery for cervical cancer, her college room mate was brutally raped and murdered, another girl she grew up with committed suicide and the worst was her best friend since childhood died in a car crash. I tried to be emotionally there but that's a lot and from her perspective by moving I was taking her away from her support system. Still no excuse for the affair- she admits and owns that mistake. A part of me wants to believe he totally took advantage of the situation but she let it happen. Here's the odd thing. Since I was pretty sure some thing happened I wasn't faithful to her after. I never had sex with anyone else but about as close as you can get. I wanted to cheat on her bc if she ever admitted to it, it would be quid pro quo- but i never could. Well now its out. She is apologetic, has given me details and timelines, willing to polygraph. Says she hasn't even thought about another man since and is "fighting" to save our marriage. We have 13 year old daughter that would be permanently damaged if I left. Here are my issues: The sex (it wasn't even a drunk one night stand), i know the guy so easy to play back in my head, the months long affair while i was trying to make a life for us, and most importantly the trust that is lost. I've had suspicions of other affairs and worry she may be telling me only the oldest one and I'm not sure how i will ever trust nothing else happened with anyone else over last 20 yrs (once a cheater always a cheater). Here's where I'm at: part of me wants to leave. I'm 43, successful and a decent looking guy and i was 20 went we got engaged.. so maybe the grass is greener, part of me wants to stay and see if now that all the secrets are out we can fall in love again but i don't know if i can live with the burden, part of me feels trapped bc of our daughter. And most of me just knows I need time before making any decisions. I would love/need feedback about similar situations people have been through and especially how to deal with the trust issues. Thanks!!!


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## GusPolinski

When's the divorce?


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## phillybeffandswiss

People will be here to help. Calm down, take some time to think carefully and do what you feel is right. All I'll say is, you have a right to feel hurt, angered, humiliated and sad even if it was 20 years ago. Don't let anyone belittle or shame your feelings because it happened 20 years ago, look at all the awesome things in your life and why didn't you move with her so it is your fault for not being there. It doesn't matter concerning how you feel since, grief time just started and you found out you have been living a TWENTY YEAR LIE.


Oh and don't swallow that beautiful blame shift. Are you going to tell me you cheated because awful things happened in your life? If this is the case and you have cheated, then there is another entire dynamic at play. If not, then don't accept ANY of the blame shifting. She had a mouth, she could have told you all of this BEFORE leaving.


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## GuyInColorado

How's the marriage been the last 5, 10 years? Great and frequent sex? Is there a marriage worth saving or time to move on?


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## Yeswecan

GuyInColorado said:


> How's the marriage been the last 5, 10 years? Great and frequent sex? Is there a marriage worth saving or time to move on?


Best place to start. These questions here.


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## Sparta

Yeah OK this is an easy one time to file for Divorce.! Those times that you were thinking that she might've cheated. Well it's most likely a guaranteed she cheated because that's what cheaters do. So yes time retain an attorney get your stuff squared away and head on out. There is a woman out there that will love you respect you and will be loyal to you. You definitely need counseling because of you're bad choices that you made also, your poor decisions to RA that is not OK behavior either.! you're not out of the woods yourself. You should see counseling and find out what's going on with you so you don't make any more mistakes in the future and that you will attract someone that will be good and healthy for your next relationship. By the way your kid will be fine.


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## SunCMars

The clock on your betrayal started 2 weeks ago.

There is no Statue of Limitations on Ellis Island. Nor, is there one on @EleGirl 's Island. I checked. Her island is undeveloped and unlimited.

Pain delayed is pain 'now' felt. You have been lied to for 19 years and still have doubts about "more" instances" of infidelity on 'her part'. The 'part' that rests on top of her legs.

I would be tempted to bail. No, I would bail. 

Start fresh. If you stay, the resentment will only grow. Why bother. Bother? No, add an "o", boother. Boot-her

With respect to the long time that has passed, it makes this a cold decision. Cold logic.


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## straightshooter

*She is apologetic, has given me details and timelines, willing to polygraph.*

You are going to be haunted not knowing if your suspicions about other affairs were valid or not. She proposed the polygraph. Take her up on it and your mind will be a lot clearer.


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## Diana7

So she has cheated with at least 2 men since you started dating and got married, but you also cheated even though you didn't go all the way. Does she know about your cheating as well? How many women was that with? Did you have oral sex etc?


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## Diana7

straightshooter said:


> *She is apologetic, has given me details and timelines, willing to polygraph.*
> 
> You are going to be haunted not knowing if your suspicions about other affairs were valid or not. She proposed the polygraph. Take her up on it and your mind will be a lot clearer.


Yes, get that polygraph to find out how many more there may have been.


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## Holden43

OP here. to answer some questions. 1) Things have been pretty good last 10-15 years. Had some good times and some bad but overall good. Especially with her carrying guilt and me acting out on my suspicions I grade B+ and glimmer of hope if everything finally out in the open (assuming it is) it could be like early marriages 2) guy she cheated on while we were dating is who i stole her from they had been on/off dating for 3 years.. some questions of exclusivity exist there from her end. I thought we were exclusive then. No excuse for her but wasn't just a hook up. 3) yes i've i told her what i did and oral was involved - she feels a bit betrayed there which i understand but the difference is when it came down to it and the other woman asked for an affair i said no, my wife did not say no to hers. I know that doesn't make me an angel but there is a difference in the paths we chose - mine was over 15 yrs ago. 4) she is more than willing to take poly she will do anything right now to keep us together.. she's trying. I'm still trying to figure out if it's coming from love or fear. If i missed any questions let me know. Thanks


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## phillybeffandswiss

Holden43 said:


> OP here. to answer some questions. 1) Things have been pretty good last 10-15 years. Had some good times and some bad but overall good. Especially with her carrying guilt and me acting out on my suspicions I grade B+ and glimmer of hope if everything finally out in the open (assuming it is) it could be like early marriages 2) guy she cheated on while we were dating is who i stole her from they had been on/off dating for 3 years.. some questions of exclusivity exist there from her end. I thought we were exclusive then. No excuse for her but wasn't just a hook up. 3) yes i've i told her what i did and oral was involved - she feels a bit betrayed there which i understand but the difference is when it came down to it and the other woman asked for an affair i said no, my wife did not say no to hers. I know that doesn't make me an angel but there is a difference in the paths we chose - mine was over 15 yrs ago. 4) she is more than willing to take poly she will do anything right now to keep us together.. she's trying. I'm still trying to figure out if it's coming from love or fear. If i missed any questions let me know. Thanks


No dude, there really is no difference. You had an affair, the fact you are trying to parse it is quite ridiculous. Was it infidelity? Yes. Was it during the marriage? Yes. Was it physical? Yes. Was it intimate? Yes. It was an affair and trying to play the "no but yours is worse" game is silly. Seriously, you both are blame shifting. 

The only difference is she lied and you told. Now, did she catch you or did you come clean on your own?


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## Holden43

That's fair and most of the reason I posted- to hear other opinions on the matter. We both came clean 2 weeks ago. She admitted what she did in 1998 and immediately told her what I did in 2001. Neither was "caught".


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## Herschel

Do you want to live the rest of your life like this?

Y or N


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## phillybeffandswiss

Holden43 said:


> That's fair and most of the reason I posted- to hear other opinions on the matter. We both came clean 2 weeks ago. She admitted what she did in 1998 and immediately told her what I did in 2001. Neither was "caught".


Now, if it is bad you move on, but you both failed each other and it doesn't matter if she had sex and you "only" had oral. You both cheated, hid it and lied to each other. Yes, you get to be angry, hurt and everything in my post earlier. She gets to feel the exact same way and everything I said applies to her as well.


You both were idiots, go get counseling and help each other get over the petty silliness.


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## Holden43

Don't know yet. Don't want to leave now. 1) need time to process before any life changing decisions 2) i realize our daughter will survive either way but don't want to cause damage if it can be prevented 3) i was no saint either 4) hope that now the clouds are lifted we can actually have stronger marriage 5) wife is doing all the rights things based on what i've read so far and its nice ... but still a long, long way to go for both of us. And if i decide to stay don't want either one of us to regret it in 20 yrs.


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## Holden43

philly beef - i appreciate your directness.


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## Steve1000

Holden43 said:


> I would love/need feedback about similar situations people have been through and especially how to deal with the trust issues. Thanks!!!


In this case, I have a different opinion than most of your replies so far. In the forum, we often recommend filing for divorce because the spouse is not remorseful, cheated until getting caught, or lied about it until the truth is exposed. The fact that your wife did this when she had a much lower maturity level, has been a pretty good wife (as far as your know) for the past twenty years, and told you about the affair when she didn't have to, I would give yourself more time to deal with this internally. 

Yes, you have the right to divorce now, but based on the above, I am not sure that is in YOUR best interest.


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## Holden43

first time using site. sorry if posted in wrong forum. appreciate all advice.. it's helping


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## Hope1964

OK so BOTH of you have been lying for the last decade plus. About cheating. You BOTH cheated. Your thread title makes you sound blameless and that is most assuredly NOT the case.

First off: you need to go to your dr together and tell him/her you want to both be STD tested. TOGETHER. And when the results are in you go get them TOGETHER. If you two can pull THAT off without blaming the other for crap or lying or blameshifting then maybe - MAYBE - there's something to save.

Have you admitted EVERYTHING? Did you minimize anything? Did you answer ALL of her questions? Did she get ALL the detail she wanted?

And did SHE answer all of YOUR questions? Is she remorseful? TRULY remorseful? Or is she just telling you what she thinks you want to hear?

I think you BOTH need to get the polygraph. TOGETHER.


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## Holden43

Yes i answered all her questions honestly. I've added additional details as remembered (it was a ling time ago) and so as she. She seems very remorseful. We've both told each other sorry and asked for forgiveness. Not sure about STD test.. at this point we would have given each other anything.. but correct me if i'm wrong. Like the idea of offering me to take poly too. Thanks. Sorry to be misleading in title this is actually first time i've participated in a message board of any kind.


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## Holden43

And we are trying to avoid too much blaming and just trying to be honest with each other right now.


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## Diana7

Holden43 said:


> That's fair and most of the reason I posted- to hear other opinions on the matter. We both came clean 2 weeks ago. She admitted what she did in 1998 and immediately told her what I did in 2001. Neither was "caught".


You having oral sex with other women is just as bad, sorry but it is.


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## TAMAT

Holden,

Is the OM still in contact in anyway with you or your W, facebook, mutual friend etc. Has the person OM was with at the time been informed? Have you confronted the OM? 

Have people who supported or turned a blind eye to your Ws affair been eliminated from your lives? Does your W still have gifts or other mementos from OM? 

Same questions for the OW you were with.

Have you or your W made apologies to the spouse or significant others of your affair partners.

Have you DNAed your child?

The affair is old to your W but new to you, it will take two to five years to recover after the last detail is revealed.

Tamat


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## Radch1988

As others have alluded to I would stay calm and focus on the last 15 years of your marriage. If your wife is willing to do anything she can to put this right then she deserves that chance. Especially seeing as there has been infidelity on both sides. 

I would certainly try and salvage what you have first and foremost. Trust will take a while, no short cuts here. Just openness and honesty every day, one small piece at a time, trust will return. 

However if you find that your wife's infidelity is something that you cannot overcome then you have to get out of the marriage. Otherwise this will eat you up from the inside out until the marriage ends anyway, usually not in the most harmonious of ways. I.e. Further cheating, constant arguments and blame shifting. 

It's painful and raw at the moment so my advice would be to hold off on making any decisions until you are absolutely sure which direction you want your life to go in - but once you are sure - make that decision straight away. Your daughter will be so much better off with a father who is happy, even you do decide on divorce. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hope1964

Holden43 said:


> Yes i answered all her questions honestly. I've added additional details as remembered (it was a ling time ago) and so as she. She seems very remorseful. We've both told each other sorry and asked for forgiveness. Not sure about STD test.. at this point we would have given each other anything.. but correct me if i'm wrong. Like the idea of offering me to take poly too. Thanks. Sorry to be misleading in title this is actually first time i've participated in a message board of any kind.


If you think she is still or has recently cheated then the STD test is more than just an STD test, iykwim. I'm not a dr. but there ARE STD's that don't show up for years sometimes, or have no symptoms.


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## Holden43

W says 99 was last time she talked or saw OM. She gave me all FB, LinkedIn, ect an no sign of contact. We have not contacted him, but I know how and I've thought about-- good or bad idea? Not even sure what I'd say... She tried to find mine on social media but couldn't-- i might be more successful should i try so she has closure? Only about 4 of her college friends all out of town, know, I'm not asking her to unfriend them but I don't want them coming around here at least not anytime soon.


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## Holden43

and both others were single at the time


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## Lostinthought61

here is the the thing i have a problem with her, she knew every time she was leaving you she was going into his arms, every time she went back....regardless of what was going back at home she was going to see him....i call BS on her even suggesting what you did has any comparison....if i were you i woudl get away for a while to think about things and determine you next steps....even if you want to stay i think this is serious enough to warrant time away alone. remember you just found out its still very raw for you...you need this to sort this out. and she constantly around you is not helping the situation. I think your being gaslighted


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## Marc878

Holden43 said:


> W says 99 was last time she talked or saw OM. She gave me all FB, LinkedIn, ect an no sign of contact. We have not contacted him, but I know how and I've thought about-- good or bad idea? Not even sure what I'd say... She tried to find mine on social media but couldn't-- i might be more successful should i try so she has closure? *Only about 4 of her college friends all out of town, know, I'm not asking her to unfriend them but I don't want them coming around here at least not anytime soon.*


Big mistake. They are enemies of your marriage. They should be cut off completely now. If you're smart


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## Holden43

i'll consider it


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## Holden43

and coincidentally she has been gone this week, home for a day then gone again for a week (both trips completely innocent and planned well in advance with no one from tgat city) so i do have the benefit of some away time without having to go anywhere.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Holden43 said:


> philly beef - i appreciate your directness.


I appreciate your honesty. You could have kept your cheating secret. I'm not saying you should stay or go, but you guys need to move past the pettiness regardless of what you decide. Your two posts are you two arguing tit for tat, which isn't good for anyone.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Lostinthought61 said:


> here is the the thing i have a problem with her, she knew every time she was leaving you she was going into his arms, every time she went back....regardless of what was going back at home she was going to see him....i call BS on her even suggesting what you did has any comparison....if i were you i woudl get away for a while to think about things and determine you next steps....even if you want to stay i think this is serious enough to warrant time away alone. remember you just found out its still very raw for you...you need this to sort this out. and she constantly around you is not helping the situation. I think your being gaslighted


Normally, I agree with this type of thinking. This is the way I tend to lean and actually everything stated is pretty legit. The difference is your wife could be thinking the exact same thing and wouldn't be wrong. I'm not going to lie, a small part of me wonders if you minimized what you did with your cheating. There's another thread where we are telling a guy "kissing means oral, oral means sex, sex once means multiple times" etc etc etc. Seriously, every trip, break, time away from the home or place you went by yourself is running through her mind as well. 


So, while I agree with L61, if I call BS on her I'm going to call it on you as well. Yes, I think there is gas lighting going on in both stories. Yes, I am okay with being wrong, but just being honest.


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## sokillme

See now everyone says I am pro divorce but in this case I am completely against it.


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## Holden43

thanks for all the feedback.. again very helpful and i probably needed some calling out for my transgressions and what she might be going through too. i know i hurt her too.


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## oldshirt

Just a few random thoughts in no particular order -

- assuming she's telling the truth that she didn't get down with him that first night, the reason she didn't was because there were witnesses in the house. She went back intentionally the other day to get it on when everyone was gone. It was an intentionally act with forethought and planning. 

- no one ever comes completely clean when discussing infidelity. You typically only know the tip of the ice berg. 

- children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, addiction and living in an environment of chronic hostility. They are not harmed by having two supportive, loving parents who are involved in their life......that happen to live in two separate homes. A child may be saddened and inconvenienced by their parents divorce, but in the absence of abuse, abandonment etc etc they are not actually harmed or damaged. Don't make your kids take the blame for living in a miserable existence if that environment is unacceptable to you. 

- the affairs may have been decades ago, but wounds are as fresh as if they occurred the day you found out about it. Treat the wounds as such. 

- If she threw the affair in your face as a means to hurt you in an argument, that may be as concerning as the affair it'self. That to me is cruel and abusive. I'm not saying keeping the affair secret for years was the right thing to do. But if it was used as a weapon to hurt or emasculate you, that highly concerning. Does she have a history of being intentionally hurtful and nasty?

- If the intervening years since the affairs were good and functional, I would be inclined to consider reconciliation and MC as a viable option. But if she's been a beeotch or has shown other suspicious activity or concerns over the years, it may be best to be looking into exit strategies.


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## Holden43

she did not throw it in my face it came up as a part of a different discussion and she genuinely broke down and was sincere and immediately willing to own and do whatever was needed to save our marriage so i decided i need to dobthe same thing with what i had done


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## EleGirl

Holden43 said:


> OP here. to answer some questions. 1) Things have been pretty good last 10-15 years. Had some good times and some bad but overall good. Especially with her carrying guilt and me acting out on my suspicions I grade B+ and glimmer of hope if everything finally out in the open (assuming it is) it could be like early marriages 2) guy she cheated on while we were dating is who i stole her from they had been on/off dating for 3 years.. some questions of exclusivity exist there from her end. I thought we were exclusive then. No excuse for her but wasn't just a hook up. 3) yes i've i told her what i did and oral was involved - she feels a bit betrayed there which i understand but the difference is when it came down to it and the other woman asked for an affair i said no, my wife did not say no to hers. I know that doesn't make me an angel but there is a difference in the paths we chose - mine was over 15 yrs ago. 4) she is more than willing to take poly she will do anything right now to keep us together.. she's trying. I'm still trying to figure out if it's coming from love or fear. If i missed any questions let me know. Thanks


Um, oral is sex. So you did have sex with the woman/women you cheated with. Further, many people believe that emotional affairs are often far more damaging to a relationship that things like hookups/one-night-stands. I think you are probably down playing your affairs.

How many different women did you do this with. What is the sum total length of time that you cheated?


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## Holden43

1 woman to that extent. it happened one night after drinking. went to her apartment a few days later. other stuff happened and she wanted an affair and i said no and last time i saw her... but no actual intercourse with anyone else but wife since married. i have kissed a few girls for different reasons and told wife about those too. I never had an EA with anyone.


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## EleGirl

Holden43 said:


> W says 99 was last time she talked or saw OM. She gave me all FB, LinkedIn, ect an no sign of contact. We have not contacted him, but I know how and I've thought about-- good or bad idea? Not even sure what I'd say... She tried to find mine on social media but couldn't-- i might be more successful should i try so she has closure? Only about 4 of her college friends all out of town, know, I'm not asking her to unfriend them but I don't want them coming around here at least not anytime soon.


I think that either of you contacting the other's affair partner at this point is a really bad idea. Your issues are with your wife, not someone you have not seen or heard from in 20 years.


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## Holden43

and she had a definite emotional and physical affair for 5 months that other people knew was going on and she denied


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## EleGirl

Holden43 said:


> 1 woman to that extent. it happened one night after drinking. went to her apartment a few days later. other stuff happened and she wanted an affair and i said no and last time i saw her... but no actual intercourse with anyone else but wife since married. i have kissed a few girls for different reasons and told wife about those too. I never had an EA with anyone.


If you have never had an EA, then how did you end up kissing a few women? What were the circumstances? How many women is a few?


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## Holden43

thanks ele- contacting guy has been on my mind but i don't see a positive end state of that conversation. really just want him to know i know for some reason.. but either way he wins bc he got her to do it (with her approval) and he's probably tried and done it to others so why would he care


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## GusPolinski

Holden43 said:


> and she had a definite emotional and physical affair for 5 months that *other people knew was going on* and she denied


Any of these people still in your life?


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## Holden43

At the end of the day both of us got ourselves in to deep. But when it came time to put it in or take it in from someone other than your spouse- i stopped and walked away -- she stayed and started a PA and an EA. And that's what is driving me crazy.


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## GusPolinski

Holden43 said:


> thanks ele- contacting guy has been on my mind but i don't see a positive end state of that conversation. really just want him to know i know for some reason.. but either way he wins bc he got her to do it (with her approval) and he's probably tried and done it to others so why would he care


Is he married these days?_


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## Holden43

No idea. He has a common name so hard to research. I might have found him and looked still single, why?


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## Holden43

kissed 4, 1 of them on 2 occasions - all has been disclosed.. last time 2008 ish


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## Holden43

kissing circumstances : 1) bar in hallway - very short 2) one of her friends at our house - silly moment- very short. 3) house party.. barely nothing 4) work trips - playful


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## Edmund

If you love each other just forgive and try to forget. This stuff is ancient. You are both guilty of the same thing. But both your transgressions are minor at this point. Nobody died. There are men and women on this site that have much worse situations than this. I think you are just looking for an excuse to divorce, like you used suspicion without actual knowledge to "justify" cheating. Remember there is a 13 year old daughter who needs you both.

If you don't like this opinion just ignore it. Good luck.


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## Lostinthought61

What i feel everyone is missing here is that it comes down to INTENT...i get both you messed up, that in both cases it it occurred in the past and is currently not occurring....but if you look at intentions on both parties her intentions, and by that i mean her desire to continue an affair even during separation from the OM, for 5 months and each time, going back to visit with the FULL INTENTION of screwing this person, physically leaving you, kissing you good bye at the airport and kissing him when she lands is the issue here....her intention of deceit, of disrespecting you, of sharing this discretion with others (girlfriends) is where i have the major problem with...and what does that say about her character....this is a hurdle you just don't chalk it up to youth....oh well we both screwed up silly us.... i am not suggesting divorce but certainly there needs to be some recourse.


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## Diana7

TO me having oral sex with someone is just as bad as intercourse. You have both acted terribly, but if you can both make sure that you will never cheat again, then forgive and move on.


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## Decorum

Please do not contact any affair partners, and never let your wife talk to that person nor should you to your affair partner. I have seen that go really bad. If they show up by contacting then a no contact letter from her to him, or you to her is the most you should do.

You will be able to accept this at some point I hope, when you see her as a flawed woman that you love, she will do the same. This seems very save-able, it sounds like she is all in, you have to get to that point down the road.

You are wired in your lower brains to mate guard, and once that is triggered its hard to shut off, you cant just flip a switch. You can only keep talking yourself down , share her memories, even of the affair so there are no secrets and make more memories.

Get to the point where you see it as her just giving into herself and letting herself down, as did you.

I really wish you well.
Take care.


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## Chaparral

I think your wife's intent was to rid herself of confusion. You moved away at a bad time for her. I doubt she wanted to move at all. At that point I think she was using the other man to judge whether or not she loved you enough to basically give up her life for. I guess you won. The other guy didn't win the big prize you did. It sounds like for her she made the right call. This doesn't mean she didn't mess up but I do see where she thought she was justified at the time.
Otoh, you cheated simply because you suspected her of cheating. 
If things have been good, go for a doubles poly and fix yourselves with therapy.


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## Holden43

BTW, I told my wife about this thread and asked her to read it. It has been helpful and insightful for me and so it should be for "us" too. Any comments/advice for her is welcomed too. As I mentioned she is trying hard and the brutal truth from non involved 3rd parties will make us examine everything as we try to rebuild this and see if it still works. Thanks to everyone.


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## RoseAglow

First: this sounds like you and your wife want to keep your marriage, and that outside of this issues, it's been a good marriage. I hope you both work together, get past this, and move to build a strong and lasting marriage.

OP, I think you need to take a harder look at your actions. I totally get the Revenge thing. You are upset that your W had an EA and PA whereas you stopped. However, she was having a terrible time, it was with her Ex who was still here for her when you were gone. NOT SAYING that it was your fault, just pointing out that she was in rough waters at that time.

YOU actually sought out opportunities for extra-marital activities. Multiple women. Not full blown sex, but nonetheless. If there was a WW saying that she felt that she needed a "Even it Out" experience and so she kissed a few guys and went down at least one of them, you can believe that there would be a huge discussion about that on TAM, and rightfully so. It is an entirely different animal, and personally I believe a more dangerous one, to have a WS who goes looking for chances. 

My goal here is to try to disabuse you of this idea that hers was so much worse than yours. They are both bad. Both of them occurred over a decade ago, and I think it is good that you both opened up and admitted them to each other. It suggests that you both want to have emotional honesty and that you are both willing to lay it on the table to get there. I hope you do.

Have you read His Needs, Her Needs? It talks about how to build a sustained healthy romantic relationship, and how to build boundaries to reduce the chance of affairs. It might be helpful for you.


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## Holden43

To clarify the premarriage cheat was with the old boyfriend the marriage affair was with a friend we worked with where nothing had ever happened before but i still get your points. Haven't read the book but i believe we have it.


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## dubsey

I don't know, I think you should just move on. Accept that you were both immature selfish idiots who cared only about yourselves, and you've grown into better people together and had a very good relationship for the last X years and be thankful that you both were able to do that.


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## sokillme

Personally I see you both as kind of even. Neither one of you has taken the high road. So if that is the case and if you still love each other I don't see the kind of power imbalance that you normally see between someone who cheats and someone who is forced to just accept it. To me this is one of the hardest things to overcome the total injustice. In this case you are kind of on an even playing field, you are going to get opinions either way and that proves it. Being brutally honest it would be better for you to be with each other then someone who will never cheat. (I believe there are two types of people, those who can and those who can't, they shouldn't mix) 

Now maybe if she had been faithful you would have had a better marriage, but we say all the time on here, the state of your marriage doesn't give you a pass to brake your vows. All that being said I don't think it is productive for the board to decide who is worse. At this point I think the poly idea is good as you both need an honest foundation to start from. Then you both should got to IC and eventually marriage counseling. But before you do all that you are going to have to know you can forgive her, and she has to know she is going to forgive you or the whole thing will be a waste.


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## Hope1964

My random thoughts:

1) didn't you say earlier you aren't 100% positive she isn't still cheating? Correct me if I'm wrong.

2) This is worth repeating:


oldshirt said:


> - children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, addiction and living in an environment of chronic hostility. They are not harmed by having two supportive, loving parents who are involved in their life......that happen to live in two separate homes. A child may be saddened and inconvenienced by their parents divorce, but in the absence of abuse, abandonment etc etc they are not actually harmed or damaged. Don't make your kids take the blame for living in a miserable existence if that environment is unacceptable to you.


3) So is this:


RoseAglow said:


> My goal here is to try to disabuse you of this idea that hers was so much worse than yours.


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## straightshooter

Holden,

Time to stop the debate on whose screw up was worse. Contacting an OM after all this time, unless you think he is contacting her again, is NUTS!!!
You keep repeating she is willing to do anything and wants to polygraph to prove it. Unless she is an imbecile she would not be offering that. So schedule the damm thing and
(1) prove she has not had other affairs
(2) prove she is not in contact with him or anyone else now.
You have been offered by her the opportunity to get some peace of mind. What the hell are you waiting for?????


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## 71bgol

If it were me I would get a polygraph done to try and verify if your suspicion of other offers is correct. If she comes out clean I would try and move on. She's a different person then she was 20 years ago.


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## Emerging Buddhist

My gosh do we change over the decades... and we have the scars to prove it.

Character matters... one we can control, one we cannot.

The one we can control is the is the critical one for what boundaries we set for ourselves... what we accept and what we do not. 

That is especially true within our own actions and behaviors, we shouldn't need others to hold us accountable for those and when it falls that that we invite others to hold us accountable in our poor choices, we know we have crossed our own boundary.

In a perfect world, our spouses/partners/relationships match and mirror our boundaries with theirs. Funny thing is not that the world is imperfect, it is that those imperfections often mirror in a "well, you did it to me first/too/often" kind of retaliation that breaks more than it heals.

Then it clouds as time does and before you know it, you are trying to make things out of vapors of the past remembering only the pain and not the true source of the thorn that put it there.

You can get past this if you understand the thorn and then focus on not stepping on it again.

Promote your mirrored boundaries, invite another to review and strengthen them as you check the fit and actions of them not by testing, but by confirming their place. Remember, if you are testing, you are on the wrong side of it... confirming is a side by side measurement that give you both an equal perspective from the same advantage point hand in hand.

Then forgive and let go... you will be much happier once you do because confidence cannot come unless you remove the things in your way and replace them with trust.

Peace be with you both.


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## ReturntoZero

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No dude, there really is no difference. You had an affair, the fact you are trying to parse it is quite ridiculous. Was it infidelity? Yes. Was it during the marriage? Yes. Was it physical? Yes. Was it intimate? Yes. It was an affair and trying to play the "no but yours is worse" game is silly. Seriously, you both are blame shifting.
> 
> The only difference is she lied and you told. Now, did she catch you or did you come clean on your own?


I was reading that and didn't realize Bill Clinton was on TAM.


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## *Deidre*

@Holden43 - would you have stayed had you found this info out right after it actually happened?


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## Diana7

To discover an affair from 20 years ago is the same as if it was discovered yesterday. In fact worse because of the 20 years of deception and secrets. For the one cheated on, it's new and fresh and painful and shocking. He cant put it behind him just because it happened so long ago, because for him it's as if it has just happened. 

I know a lady who discovered her husbands cheating after 17 years. She was devastated and felt she could never trust him again after he had deceived her and lied for all that time, and her whole marriage felt like a lie based on deception .Years later she was still struggling and I felt was heading for divorce.


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## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> To discover an affair from 20 years ago is the same as if it was discovered yesterday. In fact worse because of the 20 years of deception and secrets. For the one cheated on, it's new and fresh and painful and shocking. He cant put it behind him just because it happened so long ago, because for him it's as if it has just happened.
> 
> I know a lady who discovered her husbands cheating after 17 years. She was devastated and felt she could never trust him again after he had deceived her and lied for all that time, and her whole marriage felt like a lie based on deception .Years later she was still struggling and I felt was heading for divorce.


This deserves a follow up with this all time classic. I bet it's made up clickbait though. 99 years old but still has more balls then a lot us.


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## hurts-so-bad

Listen, I'm the same age, and we got married around the same time you did. The same thing happened to me. This **** is brutal. Other than you having a 13 year old, exact same situation. I feel for ya, my wife had 2 ONSs. My life is entirely ruined because of the trust that has been broken. I can't say "good luck", the only thing I can say is, you can either not give a **** about it and move on, or move on and not give a **** about it. There really is no other answer. Trust me. I have been dealing with this for nearly 3 months now and I'm nearly dead.


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## hurts-so-bad

dubsey said:


> I don't know, I think you should just move on. Accept that you were both immature selfish idiots who cared only about yourselves, and you've grown into better people together and had a very good relationship for the last X years and be thankful that you both were able to do that.


True!


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## MAJDEATH

I had a similar situation as well. I am 2 yrs past d-day when W finally admitted to 3 additional APs from 10+ yrs ago. Circumstances were slightly different as I knew about 1 AP, but tried to use reverse psychology and tell her it was OK to cheat while we were separated. Big mistake!

To her, this was ancient history that she had not even thought about in yrs. To me, it was yesterday and the hurt was over whelming. The mind movies and "what-ifs" were driving me crazy. I needed closure.

I did reach out to all APs I could contact to verify general info (to put my mind at ease), to tell them they owed me a big apology, and to tell them to forever stay away or their would be consequences. Some I informed their spouses, and some I didn't, depending on their sincerity and truthfullness. I contacted them without my wife's knowledge or consent. What could she really say?


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## MAJDEATH

Oops, sorry about double post, perhaps mods can delete.

Regarding trust: it is not the same as before as now you know for certain what she is capable of. Engaging in the act, around others who may know you, and both personally keeping a secret and asking others to keep a secret from you. 

This is much different than an surprise birthday party or anniversary gift. She was asking people to compromise their principles to keep her AP secret. The sex must have been mind-blowing and the OM must have been the hottest looking guy around. I say this not to make you feel bad but to realize that this is often not the case - the guy is average which makes you question even more why she would do this.

There will be more questions in your mind similar to the example about. Please ask your W to read this thread.


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## thedope

I'd be out. But you should have he do the polygraph.


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## MAJDEATH

Holden, what's the latest? Any updates?

Based on what you posted, I would privately locate the guy and make contact with him to tell him you just became aware and see how he reacts. Get all the details you have been wanting in exchange for not telling his W that he f's around with married women.


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## EleGirl

About 2 months ago he said that he was going to show his wife this thread. He's not been back since then.


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## MAJDEATH

I could almost anticipate the script that Mrs. Holden will be reading off of:
1 that was so long ago, can't we just forget about it and move on
2 I don't remember details
3 stop asking about it, every time you do, it makes me feel bad
4 see, I never should have told you if this is how you're gonna treat me
5 No I didn't end it, he moved away so it's all ok now
6 He was manipulating and taking advantage of me, because you left and I felt abandoned
7 The whole time, I was hoping that we would get back together cause you're my #1 pick and he was a temp thing

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.


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## MAJDEATH

I bet the W read my list above and realized it was exactly what she has been saying when Holden asks her.


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## Vinnydee

People confess their cheating because the guilt is eating them up. It is actually a selfish act. They get to get rid of the weight of their guilt by dumping their infidelity on their spouse. Some think that being honest about it will cancel any effects from the knowledge of it. As you now know, that is not the case. Had you not found out, it never happened and life went on as usual. Now that you know, your world has changed for the worse. You can forgive but never forget. You will think that the next time she has whatever excuse she gave you, they all have excuses, she will try to solve it in bed with another man. It will eat you up inside knowing that she can break any trust and vows you have about sexual exclusivity. 

How do you trust someone who just told you that they are untrustworthy? How do you believe someone who just told you that they lied? When it comes to cheating, women are far more likely to let it go. Men on the other hand, tend not to let it go and get divorced in greater numbers than women do. I left both of the women who cheated on me. I could not live with a women who proved she was untrustworthy and saw infidelity as a solution to her problems. Know that when they confess they will greatly minimize what they did. You do not confess to your husband and say you cheated because the other guy was hot and better in bed. That is not going to gain his forgiveness. They will portray themselves as a victim of two much drinking or some problem that was best solved with sex. Good luck. I have been on both sides of the cheating coin.


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## MAJDEATH

TBH, what good does it do to tell your spouse of your past misdeeds, especially if it was more than 20 yrs ago and the people involved are no longer around?

I kinda wish my fWW had not told me about her affairs while we were separated , about 15 yrs ago. I think she thougjt enough time had passed and that we might run into OM and wanted to get ahead of it.


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## sokillme

Vinnydee said:


> People confess their cheating because the guilt is eating them up. It is actually a selfish act. They get to get rid of the weight of their guilt by dumping their infidelity on their spouse. Some think that being honest about it will cancel any effects from the knowledge of it. As you now know, that is not the case. Had you not found out, it never happened and life went on as usual. Now that you know, your world has changed for the worse. You can forgive but never forget. You will think that the next time she has whatever excuse she gave you, they all have excuses, she will try to solve it in bed with another man. It will eat you up inside knowing that she can break any trust and vows you have about sexual exclusivity.
> 
> How do you trust someone who just told you that they are untrustworthy? How do you believe someone who just told you that they lied? When it comes to cheating, women are far more likely to let it go. Men on the other hand, tend not to let it go and get divorced in greater numbers than women do. I left both of the women who cheated on me. I could not live with a women who proved she was untrustworthy and saw infidelity as a solution to her problems. Know that when they confess they will greatly minimize what they did. You do not confess to your husband and say you cheated because the other guy was hot and better in bed. That is not going to gain his forgiveness. They will portray themselves as a victim of two much drinking or some problem that was best solved with sex. Good luck. I have been on both sides of the cheating coin.


Cheating is inherently selfish. It's selfish to cheat, it's selfish when telling to relieve guilt, it's selfish not to tell to protect yourself and let your spouse live a lie. Cheaters are selfish.


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## MAJDEATH

Cheating is selfish, but so are other things. Suicide is selfish. Abortion is selfish. Divorce is selfish too. Anytime someone puts their needs above the needs of many others, under the guise of saving others from having to deal with their own problems.


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