# Looking for advice about raising T levels



## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I have written several posts about husband's low labido and have been doing research about andropause. He has all the symptoms. I have been talking to him about this and T levels. He had his tested over summer and it was in the 215-250 range and he is 55 years old. The doctor said it was still in the normal range and wasn't going to do any replacement. After reading about side effects of T replacement probably a good idea to avoid that route since increase of prostate cancer and dampening body's own ability to produce natural testosterone. We have decided to do lifestyle changes but he isn't showing a lot of enthusiasm/drive/research for making changes but then that is also a symptom of andropause. Unfortunately, I am also being the eager wife and trying to "change" him and that isn't too kosher either. 

What can I do as his wife to encourage changes without being overbearing? Also, what kind of changes have low T guys made that has worked best?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

This entire "testosterone" crap has to stop.

Are you really taking it seriously?

I don't believe in "human" ability to mess with chemical imbalance (especially when money is at play).

What exactly is his problem right now?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Natural t is raised with lifting weights. He could try that.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You could try a different doc, one who specializes in hormones. A regular Internist or GP isn't likely to have much expertise in this area.

The prostate cancer connection is likely false. Who has the highest T levels, a 19 yr old or a 75 yr old? Who has the highest rates of prostate cancer, a 19 yr old or a 75 yr old? The research which underlies the conventional wisdom that T causes prostate cancer is very slim indeed. IIRC it comes down to one man who already had cancer, back in the 1950's or earlier.

Anyhow, T replacement is not best accomplished with a simple gel by itself. That will boost T but also will boost estrogens.

If he has any prostate symptoms at all, check into the daily Cialis therapy. It is a low daily dose which is supposed to work well. He can even go to a lower dose to cut costs. The upside to this is that he may find himself having more erections and thinking about sex more, which by itself can increase interest.

Nutrition and exercise are the best ways to approach this issue if he/you are not willing to use real T replacement therapies. First get him on a good supplement regimen. Especially vitamins B, C, D, and E, plus Zinc, Magnesium, and Calcium. Also some Krill oil, and all the usual vitamins. I am a fan of fairly high doses of some of these supplements. Do your research. He may feel more energetic and his libido may increase simply with good nutrition. Cut out the gluten, try to eat more of the organic and non-gmo foods, and cut out Soy. Soy boosts estrogens! Cut the sugars drastically, and keep alcohol very minimal.

As far as exercise, you can lead this one. Get out frequently. Drag him along to walk the dogs or go for a sight-seeing stroll somewhere. Take up bike riding, or start at the gym and encourage him to join you because you want his companionship. Don't make this about sex or libido at all!

If he may be a bit depressed, check out the book "The Mood Cure" which has some easy cheap natural ideas such as specific vitamins and amino acids to supplement for a month or two.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't really know about 'T' level (Not a physician) but almost any strenuous exercise + a low fat diet boosts libido. That's been my experience anyway.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

Adipose tissue (fat cells) contain high levels of aromatase - the enzyme that converts test to estrogen. Clean up the diet and get some exercise to lose the extra fat. That will lead to a bump in test levels.

I'm not big on OTC supplements, but some test boosters like ZMA is supposed to be decent.

Resistance exercise / strength training has shown to lead to an increase in androgen hormones.

But, don't be afraid of the bio-identical test injections. It could be life changing.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

TRT isn't correlated to prostate cancer in any way other then it exacerbates a pre-existing condition.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

bbdad said:


> Adipose tissue (fat cells) contain high levels of aromatase - the enzyme that converts test to estrogen. Clean up the diet and get some exercise to lose the extra fat. That will lead to a bump in test levels.


I can attest to this. I dropped a bunch of weight and inches and the horniness went way up.


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## SailBadTheSinner (Apr 7, 2014)

I'll soon be 68 and started on Androgel two years ago. It's made a huge difference in everything and I can't imagine not having HRT. 

The difference? Lost 28 pounds so am now 5'10" and 180 lbs, 44 inch chest, 34 inch waist. I have the DESIRE to go to the gym and do for at least an hour a day during which time I do circuit type training with no sitting between sets. So, arms are back to 16" and tummy is flat, if not ripped. Working on the ripped bit. Balance is better. Attitude is better and that's because I can do things better.

One of the things I can do better...My wife is 10 years younger and I was very concerned about satisfying her. Things are good now in that department too. Although since she's post menopause now, I might be a bit randier than she can handle. So, she's talked to the doc and is on Premarin to make sure all the parts function as designed. Better living thorough chemistry. 

BTW, I'm a retired academic. Also former military combat officer so was used to being in shape and then staying in shape when my life became bookish. HRT has allowed me to do that as time marches on.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> TRT isn't correlated to prostate cancer in any way other then it exacerbates a pre-existing condition.


Even that is questionable. Non-metastatic prostate cancer does not seem to get worse with T according to the studies reporting recently. Metastatic cancer may get worse with T, but the jury is out still.

Still, all one has to do is keep on top of the PSA tests and annual exam. This should be happening anyway if a man is over 40.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I should add he doesn't smoke, drink, drugs. Only med is an arthritis one for a past hip injury and a daily multi vitamin supplement with additional vitamin D. Cholesterol is good, blood sugar is good, sleeping good. I am not aware of any prostate issues and he has annual check ups. 

His symptoms are no energy, overweight, no labido (can go weeks without urge), difficulty maintaining erection, anxiety, no oomph. This isn't anything new that just popped up. We are talking probably the last 8-10 years. He says he doesn't feel depressed but the anxiety pops up now and again.

He know his weight has a big issue over blood flow/low T. Since diet will fall a lot to me as I am the shopper/cook, I just want to make certain I am getting it right from the beginning. I have look at clean eating menus but I get so many different opinions where we should be doing. Low fat, high protein, low carb, etc. I see many sites advising which foods to add but not really what foods to avoid. Especially ones that create estrogen spikes. I know what type of diet I need for my female body but rather clueless about males.

I definitely have read about short, intense workouts. Should this be just a few days a week? Will a bowflex machine give that kind of workout needed? I also read cardio lowers T. Running, squats are difficult because of hip injury. Just so much overwhelming and conflicting info out there. 

What about things like extra zinc or L arginine or citruline. *Thanks Thor for your response!*

I just don't want him to unmotivate himself because I am not understanding male biology.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

bbdad said:


> I'm not big on OTC supplements, but some test boosters like ZMA is supposed to be decent.



I've used Zinc Magnesium Aspartate [ ZMA ] and I would definitely recommend it.

In addition to boosting T levels, it also helps boost proper sleep, and the zinc helps with your reproductive system.
Men require higher levels of zinc in their diet and most modern foods are zinc deficient.

I recommend the Universal nutrition brand.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> I can attest to this. I dropped a bunch of weight and inches and the horniness went way up.


How do you think I feel at 53


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

drerio said:


> How do you think I feel at 53


My wife, 52, and I both lost the estrogen, me it made horny, unfortunately it had the opposite effect on her  (I like to complain about her but it's really my issue, she is 100% accommodating.)


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> My wife, 52, and I both lost the estrogen, me it made horny, unfortunately it had the opposite effect on her  (I like to complain about her but it's really my issue, she is 100% accommodating.)


at 5'10" 155lbs 18% BF, I am randy a lot and I mean a lot. So, yea, I would definitely try this over OTC therapy as a first measure. 

My wife 51, is actually quite frisky, so it works out for us. 

We have both gone from XHD to both HD... a little slow down


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

What kind of med is he on for the arthritis? Some of those can cause depression, including the anti-inflammatory meds.

If he loses weight he may have fewer problems with the arthritis.

I recommend a diet which includes about .4 pounds of protein in his lunch and dinner. Reduce the fats when it comes to sauces and salad dressings, but don't panic about fats in the meats. Use clarified butter (Ghee Butter) for frying veges and eggs. Try to have lots of different colors of fruits and veges. For breakfast he should eat something decent, like an egg or some yogurt. Stay away from sugary breakfasts or things like muffins.

Try going gluten free for a month or two. For me it reset my metabolism and I lost 30 pounds in 6 months without really trying.

Some activity is going to help a lot, too. Just walking around the block after dinner will get his energy up.

If he has cravings, check out the book "The Mood Cure" which has some good advice.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Recent studies also show getting cardiovascular fitness also is a good way to deal with arthritis. It sounds counterintuitive, however doing some aerobic exercise (just don't over do it) to improve cardio fitness can also help with his arthritis. 

Like bbdad, suggested a healthy diet and some exercise would be my first option ahead of trying OTC pharmaceuticals. Don't forget, thyroxine in symphony with androgens help to maintain a healthy reproductive system. He can boost his thyroxine levels through cardio fitness.


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## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

Thor said:


> Nutrition and exercise are the best ways to approach this issue if he/you are not willing to use real T replacement therapies. First get him on a good supplement regimen. Especially vitamins B, C, D, and E, plus Zinc, Magnesium, and Calcium. Also some Krill oil, and all the usual vitamins. I am a fan of fairly high doses of some of these supplements. Do your research. He may feel more energetic and his libido may increase simply with good nutrition. Cut out the gluten, try to eat more of the organic and non-gmo foods, and cut out Soy. Soy boosts estrogens! Cut the sugars drastically, and keep alcohol very minimal.
> 
> As far as exercise, you can lead this one. Get out frequently. Drag him along to walk the dogs or go for a sight-seeing stroll somewhere. Take up bike riding, or start at the gym and encourage him to join you because you want his companionship. Don't make this about sex or libido at all!
> 
> If he may be a bit depressed, check out the book "The Mood Cure"


Also, avoid polyunsaturated vegetable seed oils - high in omega-6, transfats, and unstable at high temps releasing dangerous free radicals which lead to inflammation.

Best *food* sources of the B vitamins - esp. B12 - is raw beef liver. Raw oysters also a good source of B vitamins, vitamin D, and zinc.
We prefer *fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil* for omega-3 and vitamin A, D, K2. Can be ordered online.

We are also doing raw milk for anti-inflammatory properties: enzymes and beneficial microbes.

Low serum B12 and low serum D are causes of low libido.

Also, make sure husband eats plenty of cholesterol-rich foods. (Turns out hype about saturated fats causing heart disease is not true. Recent pubmed meta-analysis confirms this.)

Cholesterol is a pre-cursor to vitamin D and all sex hormones. It is also protective against cancer. Get plenty of sunshine for vitamin D production.

This stuff is all tied into the methylation cycle, folate cycle, Kreb's cycle, and transulfuration cycle - which impacts every cell in body. It's important to have all the precursors, enzymes, and minerals in your diet. Magnesium is also critical for ATP synthesis. Best sources of mg are whole grains - prepared properly with phytic acid removed for better absorption. (Traditional sourdough or sprouted.). Gluten-free diets, unfortunately, can lead to deficiencies in magnesium.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Just got home from grocery store and stayed with lean meats, lots of fruit and veggie varieties/colors, and some whole grains with a minimum of 3g of fiber. I also decided to stick with full fat dairy. Most of our dairy consumption here is milk and cheese.

Arthritis med is relafen. Multi vitamin for men, D3, and vitamin E.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Csquare said:


> . Gluten-free diets, unfortunately, can lead to deficiencies in magnesium.


I'm a big proponent of trying Gluten free because many people have one form or another of intolerance. It can be low grade and the symptoms either not recognized or attributed to other things. My doc recommends trying it for 2 months and seeing how one feels. Then go back to gluten and see how you feel.

If there are no changes, there is no reason to go gluten free. Still, I suggest reducing gluten because it will reduce exposure to tons of bad stuff. For example, french fries can be contaminated either by the oil they're fried in (if a breaded product is cooked in the same oil) or some places spray a coating on the raw fries to improve taste which has some gluten in it. Voila! No more eating fries. And no more stopping at fast food for a quick burger when you're hungry, because you can't trust the burger will be gluten free even if they serve it with no bun (many commercial burger patties have gluten in them!). You'll have to cut out the chocolate chip cookies, too.

As with all diets, everything in moderation.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

onedge said:


> I have written several posts about husband's low labido and have been doing research about andropause. He has all the symptoms. I have been talking to him about this and T levels. He had his tested over summer and it was in the 215-250 range and he is 55 years old. The doctor said it was still in the normal range and wasn't going to do any replacement. After reading about side effects of T replacement probably a good idea to avoid that route since increase of prostate cancer and dampening body's own ability to produce natural testosterone. We have decided to do lifestyle changes but he isn't showing a lot of enthusiasm/drive/research for making changes but then that is also a symptom of andropause. Unfortunately, I am also being the eager wife and trying to "change" him and that isn't too kosher either.
> 
> What can I do as his wife to encourage changes without being overbearing? Also, what kind of changes have low T guys made that has worked best?


Those levels are very low. Get another doctor. Some doctors feel that past a certain age not having sex is normal. 

He needs to be lifting Heavy weights. Squats and deadlifts and so on. Plenty of sleep. Less stress. More sex. Sexual situations. Zinc works for some. 

If he is carrying extra weight that is a killer.

Oh and like it or not eating some red meat once a week can help.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you walk with him? Would he walk with you daily? 

Ideally at:
- a brisk pace for 3-4 miles AND
- carrying heavy hands - like dumb bell weights - 5 lbs each

As for weight lifting/strength training - is he willing to do it?

As for the ED - is he open to trying Viagra? 





onedge said:


> Just got home from grocery store and stayed with lean meats, lots of fruit and veggie varieties/colors, and some whole grains with a minimum of 3g of fiber. I also decided to stick with full fat dairy. Most of our dairy consumption here is milk and cheese.
> 
> Arthritis med is relafen. Multi vitamin for men, D3, and vitamin E.


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## Mmdog60 (Apr 3, 2014)

On edge...I have been through HRT with an application gel...the good.... It was amazing...like my fountain of youth. I had amazing energy and as far as private matters I could go and go as often as I felt like it. My significant other was running from me...lol. I totally totally loved it. The bad, after about 8 months of taking it my body started rejecting them and I developed blood clots (one of the side effects) Boom just like that it was over, my fountain of youth is now gone forever. I am no longer ever allowed to take again. Honestly afterwards I spun into a little depression. Now I work out a lot and that seems to help replace the drug. Not to the extent of how great the drug made me feel. But it's much safer.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

onedge said:


> I have written several posts about husband's low labido and have been doing research about andropause. He has all the symptoms. I have been talking to him about this and T levels. He had his tested over summer and it was in the 215-250 range and he is 55 years old.


This is lower than the average for men aged 85-100, which is 376. Average for his age is 562.



onedge said:


> The doctor said it was still in the normal range and wasn't going to do any replacement.


Time to get a new doctor; this one has zero regard for his patient's quality of life. Or maybe he's just ignorant. Either way...



onedge said:


> After reading about side effects of T replacement probably a good idea to avoid that route since increase of prostate cancer and dampening body's own ability to produce natural testosterone.


Some people have side effects, others don't. How it's delivered may be a factor as well, plus whether or not it's patented or bio-identical.



onedge said:


> We have decided to do lifestyle changes but he isn't showing a lot of enthusiasm/drive/research for making changes but then that is also a symptom of andropause. Unfortunately, I am also being the eager wife and trying to "change" him and that isn't too kosher either.


If you do the cooking, change over to a paleo diet.



onedge said:


> What can I do as his wife to encourage changes without being overbearing? Also, what kind of changes have low T guys made that has worked best?


I couldn't take T supplements due to having prostate cancer, so I upped mine by going back to resistance training. Heavy squats, Leg Press, and Deadlift are the exercises that activate testosterone and possibly GH. I also use a lot of cod liver oil, since Vit A is used in T production. Also, nuts for zinc and magnesium. 50mg of OTC DHEA twice daily. This has not been shown to increase T, although its a precursor in the body, but it has been linked to greater muscle mass, so draw your own conclusions.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

onedge said:


> I should add he doesn't smoke, drink, drugs. Only med is an arthritis one for a past hip injury and a daily multi vitamin supplement with additional vitamin D. Cholesterol is good, blood sugar is good, sleeping good. I am not aware of any prostate issues and he has annual check ups.


Get sun for the Vitamin D. The old days of no sun are long gone. 



onedge said:


> His symptoms are no energy, overweight, no labido (can go weeks without urge), difficulty maintaining erection, anxiety, no oomph. This isn't anything new that just popped up. We are talking probably the last 8-10 years. He says he doesn't feel depressed but the anxiety pops up now and again.
> 
> He know his weight has a big issue over blood flow/low T. Since diet will fall a lot to me as I am the shopper/cook, I just want to make certain I am getting it right from the beginning. I have look at clean eating menus but I get so many different opinions where we should be doing. Low fat, high protein, low carb, etc. I see many sites advising which foods to add but not really what foods to avoid. Especially ones that create estrogen spikes. I know what type of diet I need for my female body but rather clueless about males.


Here's what a man needs to eat to raise T, build muscle, and cut fat: red meat, pork, fowl, fish, real cheese, heavy cream, cod liver oil, coconut oil, vegetables, tree nuts in limited quantities.

During fat loss, you completely drop these things: all grains, sugar, honey, fruit, potatoes, milk, juices.

Every week or so, after a HIT resistance workout have a free meal and pig out.



onedge said:


> I definitely have read about short, intense workouts. Should this be just a few days a week? Will a bowflex machine give that kind of workout needed?


A bowflex machine can work, if its got all the attachments. do you already have one of these?




onedge said:


> I also read cardio lowers T. Running, squats are difficult because of hip injury. Just so much overwhelming and conflicting info out there.


Steady state exercise (aka cardio) wastes muscle after about age 40. It's a waste of time. Squats are good, but they aren't absolutely necessary, regardless of what Bro Science claims. Let Press and Deadlifts, including Partial Deadlift can work if combined with leg extensions, leg curls, and so on.



onedge said:


> What about things like extra zinc or L arginine or citruline. *Thanks Thor for your response!*


Arginine is good for blood flow. I've had a prostatectomy, so I use the time release stuff from a company called Endurance Products.



onedge said:


> I just don't want him to unmotivate himself because I am not understanding male biology.


Lifting weights and dropping fat is where it's at. Also, he needs to get about 9 hours of sleep per night. In one study of low T men, almost all of them got their T up to normal levels by sleeping 9 hours or more.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Steady state exercise (aka cardio) wastes muscle after about age 40. It's a waste of time. Squats are good, but they aren't absolutely necessary, regardless of what Bro Science claims. Let Press and Deadlifts, including Partial Deadlift can work if combined with leg extensions, leg curls, and so on.


Walking is an outstanding exercise. Lots of it, not just once around the block for a 1/4 mile total. Wear ankle weights. Carry a modest backpack, one which places the weight on the hips not the shoulders. This is neither cardio nor bulking up, but it is excellent nonetheless. Walk to the grocery store even if it is 1 mile away. Yes, this cuts down on tv time, but it will reduce stress levels and improve socialization if you do it with someone.

As far as lifting weights, yes it is important. As someone who has several bad lumbar disks I just want to offer caution when beginning a lifting regimen. Be sure to start slowly, and take several months to get up to heavier weights. The legs or shoulders may be far stronger than the spine, which can lead to serious back injuries. He has to emphasize core strength before going for muscle mass or heavy lifts.

Be sure to get professional guidance from someone who has real education into physiology. Not just some gym rat who calls himself a personal trainer.

Be wary of the machines. The geometries can be wrong for human movements. If he feels any strains or pains, stop! I much prefer free weights and even just body weight exercises.

Carrying a modest backpack on a good mountain trail, or up/down staircases, can be very strenuous. Even just body weight lunges, maybe with modest dumbbells in his hands, can build lower body muscle mass.




Machiavelli said:


> Also, he needs to get about 9 hours of sleep per night. In one study of low T men, almost all of them got their T up to normal levels by sleeping 9 hours or more.


Studies show that people who go to bed prior to 10 pm report much less morning fatigue, even when those going to bed later get the same number of hours of sleep. Probably this has something to do with natural cycles syncing to daylight.


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