# OM wants to meet to talk. Is it dangerous



## fearfulheart

I have my long story in the divorce forum but yesterday after I found out that my WW was having a PA with OM I reached out to his parents and folks at his work place. Now he has reached out to me to meet and discuss. Should I be worried for my own safety? What would he want to discuss with me?


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## Blossom Leigh

fearfulheart said:


> I have my long story in the divorce forum but yesterday after I found out that my WW was having a PA with OM I reached out to his parents and folks at his work place. Now he has reached out to me to meet and discuss. Should I be worried for my own safety? What would he want to discuss with me?


I would meet in a very public place and arrive first.


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## ConanHub

You owe that POS nothing but grief! Don't meet unless it benefits you and no shame in bringing back up.


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## snerg

Reached out to discuss?

What is there to discuss?

You should be raining down upon him with furious anger.

There is no discussion - he's tapping your wife.


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## arbitrator

Not specifically recalling your story, I would highly recommend that if you go to this meeting, that you take a trusted friend(preferably male) who is a confidante of yours and who pretty much knows your entire story.

My only perceived apprehension in all of this is exactly "what is in all of this for you?"


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## Blossom Leigh

I love the idea of back up...


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## GusPolinski

Bring a VAR.


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## badmemory

Trust me, the only reason he would want to meet with you would be for his benefit. Even it it was an apology it would only be to assuage his own guilt. 

I don't recall your story, but if you have all the evidence you need; I wouldn't give him the time of day; much less meet with him.


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## fearfulheart

He may have started feeling the punches from his family and friends and may want me to stop spreading the news - just a guess. I will go with my buddy and see what he is up to. Thx


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## tulsy

fearfulheart said:


> He may have started feeling the punches from his family and friends and may want me to stop spreading the news ...


Too bad for him....keep spreading!

Boo-fricken-hoo...fall out for bangin' someones wife, the d1ck!


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## ButtPunch

This meeting is a bad idea. You don't owe him sh*t. Nothing good can come of it unless you beat him up. Don't do it and block his number.


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## PBear

Frankly, I'd ask him what he wants before I'd bother even tying my shoes. You're not likely to get any truth from him, and all he can do is either threaten or beg you to stop the exposing. So I'd ask him what's in it for you to meet him. 

C


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## arbitrator

This is a meeting being proposed by a guy who, with the willful participation of your W, stabbed you in the back and right through the heart in destroying your marriage and offering to lay waste to your family!

Given that: Is he, in any way, entitled to an audience with you ~ the family man who was the unknowing victim of his co-conspiratorially coaxing away and summarily banging your wife?

If it were me, I wouldn't even as much as pee in his guts in he were engulfed in flames. He brought all of this on unilaterally! What possible entitlement to relief does he deserve?

Provided you opt to go on to this meeting with your buddy, I'd hear him out; but as I was leaving I would tell him facetiously that you had yourself checked out at the Doctor's office and they were fearful that your wife gave you something!


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## shellgames

Sounds painful, I declined and would continue to.


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## shellgames

And why arbitrator said


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## cantthinkstraight

It takes a lot of balls to be willing to meet the husband of the person you've been banging. 
He still doesn't respect you, so I wouldn't give him what he wants. 

You make the terms. If what you're doing (informing his family) is driving him crazy, 
then I'd keep at it and turn up the heat even more.

You owe the POS *NOTHING*.


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## Q tip

Hell no. 

Sounds like the start of that thing they say about those birds.

Shows him you're weak.


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## Satya

"I have nothing to discuss with you." 

Lake others have said, what could possibly be so important it requires your attention? You owe him nothing.


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## Forest

If he is calling to meet you, I would think that he wants to explain, possibly apologize, and seeks this meeting to prove to himself he still has some honor. Its more or less a BS idea on his part, because obviously he really doesn't have honor.

Now. I gladly write a check for $500 if my POSOM offered to meet me. Not because I'd listen to one word he'd say though. We both know this. He won't bite. 

Do ask to meet somewhere open, but not indoors. A "second" is OK, for a witness, but make sure this is a man-to-man conventional setup. No weapons, no army, no crying to prosecutors afterward. 

edit:
I should have read your other thread first. 

After reading further into this, I do think he is probably wanting to "explain". He's going to take the position that he was under the assumption your marriage was mostly over, divorce was on the way, yada, etc.
Then, he'll tell you how he'd never want to break up a marriage, and again, how he thought you and wifey were quits.
Next, some BS about how he only wants wants best for wifey, would never try to take your place with the kids, etc.

Just my take.


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## ButtPunch

I will state again....Anything short of whipping his a$$ at this meeting will be seen as weak and pathetic on your part. 

A simple FU*K OFF will suffice. You can have the cheating *****.


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## Q tip

ButtPunch said:


> I will state again....Anything short of whipping his a$$ at this meeting will be seen as weak and pathetic on your part.
> 
> A simple FU*K OFF will suffice. You can have the cheating *****.


Add to that **she'll cheat with you, she'll cheat on you...**. 

And. **Enjoy the STDs and genital herpes...**


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## BrockLanders

Tell him to meet you and stand him up. Ask him if he likes how it feels.


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## FatherofTwo

In meeting the other male I'd more concerned for HIS safety than mine and yes I would be crystal clear with this to him.


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## SpinDaddy

You know this is life not some damn made for TV chick flick on Lifetime. If he feels the need to talk I’d tell him it’d be better for all parties to do it over the phone or in the presence of your attorney. 

And if you do talk to this smuck on the phone, stop by Radio Shack tomorrow and get a recording device and tell him you’re recording. 

Too many variables here – emotionally, legally and of the 6-O’clock news variety to take the chance that anything worthwhile might outweigh the possible negatives.

Also, since you’re “outing” this rat you need to watch your tongue, i.e., no threats and etc. and IMHO you’d be best advised to have a disinterested 3rd party there to put a break on things if they get out of hand.


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## warlock07

It should be dangerous for him...


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## ConanHub

warlock07 said:


> It should be dangerous for him...


Rules be damned but I agree with this! Could be the barbarian in me but POSs should live in fcing fear!


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## warlock07

There might also be a scenario when she might have lied to him about the nature of her relationship with you.


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## Yeswecan

I'd tell him to go sh it in his hat. Honestly, are you going to be bargaining or something. The OM is lower then whale sh it on the ocean floor and does not qualify for any of you time.


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## 2ntnuf

You know? Back in the late 70s, when I was a teen, I can remember a few fights. One was between two young women(girls?). One got her head smashed off the side of a brick building. Another fight, one kid got some of his long hair removed forcefully from his scalp, a few loose teeth, bloody nose, and swollen and blackened eyes. Another kid had a few of his ribs broken and his faced looked like crap. All of these kids thought they could take the boy/girl they were fighting. 

Once, there was a fight between two kids I knew and we staged it in a back yard off an alley. We built a fire in a steel drum, bought hotdogs at the corner store and roasted them while the fight was going on. One of the kids was trying to sell them to the spectators. There were quite a few. No one got mutilated at that one. Both the fighters had some bruises, but the hotdogs and all the other kids took something off of the idea the someone was going to do real damage. 

I was in a couple myself and am not proud of it. I never really wanted to fight, I only did it when I felt there was really no other way. One kid pulled a fixed blade Buck hunting knife on me. Not fun. Fighting never fixes anything. Sometimes, it sends a clear message to stay away. If you win. 

Back then the police would usually only break it up. Sometimes slowly. If it was all fisticuffs it wasn't usually a problem. 

In the 90s, young men got into fights outside of bars. I remember one fight had about three quarters of the bar's patrons standing around. The one who started the fight was constantly in them. He had to prove something to himself, I guess. He was arrested quite a few times.

Today, it doesn't seem like it's a fight unless there are weapons of some sort, police and fines involved. I guess I've been out of it too long. 

You never know what is going to happen. Do I think he deserves a good ass kicking? Sure, but he deserves much more than that. An ass kicking isn't even close to good enough. It's a waste of time in my opinion. There have to be legal ways to handle him that are lifelong in their ability to produce misery. Anything less is a waste of time. No, I would not feel bad in the least. 

In any case, is she really worth fighting for or over? Is she worth going to jail for? I can't imagine why. 

No idea where you stand on this. Just some of my experiences and thoughts.


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## Calibre1212

Go for it!...VAR and best buddy with you. This convo could make all the big advantage difference in your divorce. That's why he wants to talk to you, to pacify and help your WW keep whatever advantage she may have. Kick your emotions aside for later. Money & custody matter most right now.


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## honcho

He just found out what is going on. He is going to be way too emotional to meet the OM right now. The OM isn't going to be anymore truthful than his wife as its damage control time for them.


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## TRy

fearfulheart said:


> He may have started feeling the punches from his family and friends and may want me to stop spreading the news - just a guess. I will go with my buddy and see what he is up to. Thx


 I would not go at all. No good can come of this. He has been banging your wife. You either kick is a$$ and get arrested, or you make friendly with a guy that has been working to destroy you and your children's family, in which case you come off looking weak. Do not go.


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## staarz21

I wouldn't do it. He won't offer any closure. What could he possibly have to say to you? "Sorry, I was banging your wife."? Seriously? How is that going to help you? 

You don't owe him anything. If he contacts you again, tell to go kiss a bull's @ss! Then you move on!


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## Calibre1212

P.S. Walk away if he tries to trigger you into assaulting him, if you do decide to go.


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## soccermom2three

Don't do it. It won't make you feel better, it will make you feel worse.


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## sidney2718

Q tip said:


> Hell no.
> 
> Sounds like the start of that thing they say about those birds.
> 
> Shows him you're weak.


Not at all. It can show that he's not afraid of the OM and that's strong. It also shows that they are afraid of what you can do.

The game the OM is playing may be very different than the game his WW is playing. I don't think it ever hurts to get more information.


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## fearfulheart

Forest said:


> If he is calling to meet you, I would think that he wants to explain, possibly apologize, and seeks this meeting to prove to himself he still has some honor. Its more or less a BS idea on his part, because obviously he really doesn't have honor.
> 
> Now. I gladly write a check for $500 if my POSOM offered to meet me. Not because I'd listen to one word he'd say though. We both know this. He won't bite.
> 
> Do ask to meet somewhere open, but not indoors. A "second" is OK, for a witness, but make sure this is a man-to-man conventional setup. No weapons, no army, no crying to prosecutors afterward.
> 
> edit:
> I should have read your other thread first.
> 
> After reading further into this, I do think he is probably wanting to "explain". He's going to take the position that he was under the assumption your marriage was mostly over, divorce was on the way, yada, etc.
> Then, he'll tell you how he'd never want to break up a marriage, and again, how he thought you and wifey were quits.
> Next, some BS about how he only wants wants best for wifey, would never try to take your place with the kids, etc.
> 
> Just my take.


You nailed it - that is exactly what he said word for word. I am so amazed with your wisdom in this matter. He just added that he will not be part of this anymore and not meet her anymore..


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## donny64

Wouldn't do it. Could it be dangerous? Yeah, for him. 

There's nothing he could possibly tell you that will make you feel better about this. In fact seeing the man who was poking your wife could likely bring about an instant and unmanageable anger within you. 

The possible "gain" of finding out something useful in divorce is minimal compared to the potential harm you could do to yourself.

Only benefit I can see is if you are even remotely considering reconciliation, maybe he has some information that may make you want to reconsider that option. 

Screw him.


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## fearfulheart

fearfulheart said:


> You nailed it - that is exactly what he said word for word. I am so amazed with your wisdom in this matter. He just added that he will not be part of this anymore and not meet her anymore..


I told him to f**k of* and to take the f******g b***ch with him where ever he is going - he acknowledged and I left


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## Q tip

Your WW is using him to get info from you for the coming legal battle. Do not meet. Give up no information, strategy or thoughts. Don't be dumb.

This is chess, not checkers.


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## Q tip

fearfulheart said:


> You nailed it - that is exactly what he said word for word. I am so amazed with your wisdom in this matter. He just added that he will not be part of this anymore and not meet her anymore..


Maybe it was Forest you met...


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## X-B

I had two meet-ups with the OM. The first one I made an appointment with him at his office using a alias name. I just sit and stared at him. Weather you decide to meet him or not do not act nervous or intimidated by him.


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## 3putt

X-B said:


> I had two meet-ups with the OM. The first one I made an appointment with him at his office using a alias name. I just sit and stared at him. Weather you decide to meet him or not do not act nervous or intimidated by him.


Still two of my best memories of this place. Loved seeing what you did and how you did it. All while fighting cancer and extremely high blood pressure as well.

You know you have my respect, X.


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## Calibre1212

fearfulheart said:


> You nailed it - that is exactly what he said word for word. I am so amazed with your wisdom in this matter. He just added that he will not be part of this anymore and not meet her anymore..


Uh-Huh...Bet & hope you live in one of those states where adultery is a divorce advantage for you. Hope you lawyered-up. Some WSs drop the bomb only to emotionally cripple you so they can get the upper hand all the way. Insult to injury, but you can overcome.


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## verpin zal

OM should be the one to worry about the dangers of meeting up with the man of the gal he's been bonking.


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## drifting on

Fearfulheart

I met my WW OM twice, once at my request and once at his. Nothing eventful ever really came from either meeting. If we hadn't met I would still feel the same way. Anything that spewed out of his mouth I wasn't buying anyway. I look back now and just shrug my shoulders over meeting him. It had no value, no closure, no new information. Sure it felt good to tell him off and make him squirm, but at the end of the day it did nothing. I would say if it is needed to heal then meet him. It it doesn't then don't meet him. And yes I would have a buddy go with if that is what you decide. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

YoU should have reminded him that she cheated on you and she will cheat on him...put that doubt in his head.


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## always_hopefull

I was going to tell you, before I noticed you had already gone, to set something up with him, making sure its fairly visible from the outside. Then just sit in your car and wait to see how long he stays before he goes. Apologize for being unable to make it and reschedule. If you really felt pissy you could do this a few times before you actually met up with him.

But then again, I detest cheaters.


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## fearfulheart

Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this. She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything. I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


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## Forest

fearfulheart said:


> You nailed it - that is exactly what he said word for word. I am so amazed with your wisdom in this matter. He just added that he will not be part of this anymore and not meet her anymore..


Heh.

Life experience in dealing with other people's problems. I should have paid more attention.

He's mostly doing this to try and make himself feel better, but I'll allow that's more than your typical OM would do.


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## Forest

Q tip said:


> Maybe it was Forest you met...


D'oh!

Ix-nay on that it-sha!


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## turnera

fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this. She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything. I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


One for the books.

Exposure works.


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## RWB

fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I* he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this.
> *
> She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this...


fh,

In reality, the "meeting" is just another form of Exposure. 

Exposure is the Kryptonite to the affair. While it may not stop, it forever changes the dynamics, from shadows to light. Regardless of BS attention, R or D, the secretive nature of the affair loses it's shine when forced to the surface and consequences become real.

She pissed because "You" dragged his parents into This? Hilarious! My wife cheated for years with multiple OM before I finally caught her. Want to hear a truth? Cheaters never really think things through. How can they. In most cases it's pure fantasy-land and why spoil a "good" story. 

"Round-em Up Boys... We got us Cheater Drive to do".


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## phillybeffandswiss

LOL. So, she is raging because you took her toy away. What a child.


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## 3putt




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## lenzi

turnera said:


> One for the books.
> 
> Exposure works.


How does it help the situation?

He's in for a high conflict, expensive, drawn out divorce.

He could have simply walked away.

Not seeing what's gained here.


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## turnera

Well, let's see. It let him see his wife for the cheater she is, and thus let go. It let the OM get out before it got too bad. It showed his wife's family that she needs to be held accountable. And it just might have taught his wife a thing or two about consequences so just maybe she won't cheat on her next husband.


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## lenzi

turnera said:


> Well, let's see. It let him see his wife for the cheater she is, and thus let go.


He already knew she was a cheater.



turnera said:


> It let the OM get out before it got too bad.


So he did the OM a favor in some way? That's very nice of him. I don't know, if it was me, the last thing I'd want to do is make life easier for a guy who was screwing my woman. Not sure what you mean about getting out "before it got too bad".. I mean, they're having a PA, how much worse can it get?



turnera said:


> It showed his wife's family that she needs to be held accountable. And it just might have taught his wife a thing or two about consequences so just maybe she won't cheat on her next husband.


Who gives a rat's ass about his wife's family, or whether he taught his soon to be exwife a thing or two? Is that the job of a betrayed spouse, to go around making things right for the next person?

I'm obviously in the "anti-expose" crowd. If you're in a situation like this, walk away, file for divorce and keep things as civil as possible to avoid expensive, nasty, drawn out litigation.

Get him or her out of your life as quickly and as cheaply as possible so you can move on. Again, that means avoid conflict when possible, it's just not worth your time, effort or money.


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## tacoma

lenzi said:


> Get him or her out of your life as quickly and as cheaply as possible so you can move on. Again, that means avoid conflict when possible, it's just not worth your time, effort or money.


Actually I agree with lenzi.

The only benefit to exposure is getting your spouse away from the AP in order to reconcile.

If you aren't going to reconcile exposure is a bit foolish and just keeps you enmeshed in the drama, unable to get on with life.

If you really need the vengeance wait until after the D proceedings are over


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - *apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this. She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this* and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything. I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


Just tell her, "Don't worry, you'll find someone else. There's plenty of guys out there looking for an easy lay.".

I wonder if she's given any thought to what's going to happen when a future BF, or fiance finds out why she got divorced...

I'm thinking that he'll cut and run. If he has any brains that is.


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## Chaparral

lenzi said:


> How does it help the situation?
> 
> He's in for a high conflict, expensive, drawn out divorce.
> 
> He could have simply walked away.
> 
> Not seeing what's gained here.


He gained self respect. There is no proof he has made anything worse simply by pi$$ing off his cheating wife.

From what he says he got a lot out of it and rubbed the Om's face in the fact he's a no class POS.


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## Chaparral

tacoma said:


> Actually I agree with lenzi.
> 
> The only benefit to exposure is getting your spouse away from the AP in order to reconcile.
> 
> If you aren't going to reconcile exposure is a bit foolish and just keeps you enmeshed in the drama, unable to get on with life.
> 
> If you really need the vengeance wait until after the D proceedings are over


I believe you need to expose unless you're yellow.


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## arbitrator

*The old adage, "there is no honor among thieves" is all too prevalent here ~ right up there with the notion that "there is no honor among cheaters!"

The meeting, while somewhat successful at extracting additional information against his W, only served to solidify what he knew about her in the first place. Now that he has summarily given her "the air," I'd greatly wager that she and the OM will eventually hook back up, but I cannot see their newfound relationship extending beyond a short-term "Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Ma'am" one!

Assemble your evidence, get it to your attorney's office and let him proceed to do his thing! But whatever course of action he pursues, just make good damned and sure that getting child custody for you is "Priority One!"*


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## Wolf1974

warlock07 said:


> There might also be a scenario when she might have lied to him about the nature of her relationship with you.


Well this. I know I have been lied to before about a woman's involvement with another guy. Is it possible that he didn't know? Your WW has already shown herself to be a liar to you maybe him as well. I would clarify what exactly he wants from a meeting.


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## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> I told him to f**k of* and to take the f******g b***ch with him where ever he is going - he acknowledged and I left


:allhail:

Of course your wife will blame you for spoiling the plans she had to be with the perfect OM just like you spoil everything else.


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## tacoma

Chaparral said:


> I believe you need to expose unless you're yellow.


And I still don't see any objective reason to expose in a relationship that has no chance for R.

You say "self respect" but my self respect doesn't hinge on the actions of my wife or anyone else for that matter.

The only reasons I see for exposure beyond reconciliation are vengeful.
Don't get me wrong, I equate vengeance and justice quite closely.

I am all for and a ready practitioner of dealing out righteous vengeance.
However, I'm smart enough to realize that there is a time and place for everything.

If my main goal(need)is to remove a person from my life quickly and painlessly it doesn't make much sense to piss them off enough to put up a fight that can harm me financially.

It's akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.


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## lenzi

tacoma said:


> However, I'm smart enough to realize that there is a time and place for everything.
> 
> If my main goal(need)is to remove a person from my life quickly and painlessly it doesn't make much sense to piss them off enough to put up a fight that can harm me financially.
> 
> It's akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Exactly. Those who advocate exposure are being rather shortsighted and are dispensing irresponsible advice. As are those who say "the cheater must quit their job in order to stop the affair". They don't consider the ramifications of such if there ultimately is a divorce (think "spousal support").

Now if the wayward partner is desperate to get the cheater back and is willing to do anything to achieve that goal, well then all I can say is, good luck and go expose and have them quit their job if they're working with the affair partner but realize that you're setting yourself up for big problems if you ultimately divorce.



Chaparral said:


> I believe you need to expose unless you're yellow.


There are some who maintain that those who will stay with a cheater are yellow.


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## Blossom Leigh

tacoma said:


> Actually I agree with lenzi.
> 
> The only benefit to exposure is getting your spouse away from the AP in order to reconcile.
> 
> If you aren't going to reconcile exposure is a bit foolish and just keeps you enmeshed in the drama, unable to get on with life.
> 
> If you really need the vengeance wait until after the D proceedings are over


Exposure isn't always about vengence.

But yes, finances need protect where possible.


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## RWB

lenzi said:


> I'm obviously in the "anti-expose" crowd. If you're in a situation like this, walk away, file for divorce and keep things as civil as possible to *avoid expensive, nasty, drawn out litigation.*


No issue with civility... However, once the Lawyers get on-board pretty slim chance it ain't going to cost, with Children, Property, Alimony, Retirement Accounts, i.e. in the balance.


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## 2ntnuf

While it may feel like the affair partner is winning and they will end up with the WS, it seems these types of relationships have a greater chance of failure than success. This site seems reputable and is where I obtained this information. 




> I have just come across clarification on a statistic I cited in “Can Relationships That Start as Affairs Succeed?” In that post I stated that 25% of relationships that start as affairs succeed. I always thought that sounded a bit high. Recently this figure has been clarified by Frank Pittman. In the study he is citing, the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75%. Information is not available about the quality of the 25% of marriages that did not end in divorce. The study did provide information on the reasons that the marriages ended… - See more at: Can Relationships That Start as Affairs Succeed...Revisited | About Affairs


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## Forest

fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this. She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything. I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


So maybe now you've got something positive to build on. 

The cloak has been removed, you're seen the true face of the enemy, and a path is laid before you.

(oop. that was meant for an internet novel I'm writing.)


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## 2ntnuf

Chaparral said:


> He gained self respect. There is no proof he has made anything worse simply by pi$$ing off his cheating wife.
> 
> From what he says he got a lot out of it and rubbed the Om's face in the fact he's a no class POS.


I guess there really is nothing he did that is illegal or that would harm his chances of getting his children.


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## azteca1986

fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I *he cannot withstand harassment of his parents* over this.


Oh. Family man is he all of a sudden?


> *She was so furious* and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything. I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


Of course she is. She went from two men 'chasing her' to... no men. Ha ha ha.


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## ThePheonix

Chaparral said:


> There is no proof he has made anything worse simply by pi$$ing off his cheating wife.


I agree. If anybody thinks your going to get out of your marriage on the cheap by placating you WS you're in for a shock. When it gets down to the nut cutting, they are going after everything they can get. 
I was hoping ole Fear would come back an say the other man wanted his wife and Fear went ahead and signed over the title, avoiding the maintenance costs of keeping that lemon in his life.


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## lenzi

ThePheonix said:


> I agree. If anybody thinks your going to get out of your marriage on the cheap by placating you WS you're in for a shock. When it gets down to the nut cutting, they are going after everything they can get. iding the maintenance costs of keeping that lemon in his life.


Not necessarily. If that was true there would be no mediation industry at all, and every divorce would be highly contested and drag on for years and cost lots of money.

He could have said "Look honey we both want out of this marriage as fast as possible so how about we get ourselves a mediator and settle this thing amicably and you go your way and I'll go my way and we'll get to keep most of our assets rather than giving them all to the attorneys".

It might work, it might not. But compared to the adversarial position his soon to be wife is in at this time, the odds for a fast, inexpensive mediated settlement are rather slim.

Anyone patting the guy on the back for exposing his wife and pissing her off clearly does not understand the complexity of highly contested divorce litigation.

I've been there. It cost me. Big time. 

So I get it.

It's not about "ha ha I ruined her affair and she has nobody". It's about damage control. This marriage is finished. You want out. As quickly and inexpensively as possible. The actions taken by the Op, which are the subject of this thread, do nothing to further that particular goal.


----------



## azteca1986

You must admit fvcking the OM and stating she'll fight for sole custody is a slightly adversarial position. A marriage takes two. Mediation takes two. At least now she knows now OP won't be a push over.


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## MattMatt

Communicate with him, if you must, by email or post.


----------



## Chaparral

lenzi said:


> Exactly. Those who advocate exposure are being rather shortsighted and are dispensing irresponsible advice. As are those who say "the cheater must quit their job in order to stop the affair". They don't consider the ramifications of such if there ultimately is a divorce (think "spousal support").
> 
> Now if the wayward partner is desperate to get the cheater back and is willing to do anything to achieve that goal, well then all I can say is, good luck and go expose and have them quit their job if they're working with the affair partner but realize that you're setting yourself up for big problems if you ultimately divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> There are some who maintain that those who will stay with a cheater are yellow.


Most used to say the om should be black and blue, those would be my role model.


----------



## lovesmanis

Clarity


----------



## 3putt

tdwal said:


> I hate it when people advocate not exposing to the AP's spouse. It shows a lack of compassion they don't have. To them it seems to be all about money and how they can get away with as much as they can.
> 
> If they had a spouse that was a serial cheater and they weren't told with multiple occurrences they would be upset that nobody told them like we see on TAM all the time.


Also shows (to me at least) a lack of respect for themselves as well. To allow the lies to be taken for truth for the sake of mythically saving a few bucks is just disgusting and cowardly to me.

I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I didn't fight for at least my own name and reputation.

To hell with that.


----------



## ThePheonix

lenzi said:


> I've been there. It cost me. Big time.


You know what they say, "its the f-ing you get for the f-ing you got."


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

lenzi said:


> I've been there. It cost me. Big time.


Yes and we have threads where the guy didn't expose and it still cost him "big time" as well.Yes, I know tailor time, I'll stop my portion of the derail.


----------



## happyman64

You forgot to tell the OM and his parents that your wife has an STD.

THAT WOULD HAVE REALLY GOTTEN HIS BUTTHOLE PUCKERED UP!

Did you record the conversation?

It would be nice to be able to hold a "work place affair" over your WW's head while working out the terms of the divorce......


----------



## the guy

Cheaters lie....please update us in a few months and let us know if the OM put his money were his mouth is.


----------



## TRy

lenzi said:


> How does it help the situation?
> 
> He's in for a high conflict, expensive, drawn out divorce.
> 
> He could have simply walked away.
> 
> Not seeing what's gained here.


 Cheating, by its very nature, is being selfish and unfair to your spouse. She was never going to be fair with him and let him simply walk away. You are under the false impression that if he went quietly into the night and not exposed, that she would have been nicer to him in the divorce. The truth is, cheaters will do what cheaters will do in a divorce. If she is going to be difficult and greedy in the divorce, she would have been no matter what he did. The only difference is that now he knows and can be better prepared for it, instead of giving her early concessions that he would later regret. He lost nothing but the false hope that she was going to be easy on him in the divorce.


----------



## fearfulheart

A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place. 
WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....
I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


----------



## fearfulheart

fearfulheart said:


> A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place.
> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....
> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


Just something else that bothers me in all this is earlier on (before I knew about this forum) I had done a grave mistake by begging and pleading with her to give this a marriage a chance (at that time I was not aware of any PA, just thought it was an one sided EA). In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work. I know she still has the letter and afraid that she may use it to get restraining order - from everything I have read, it is much easier for WW to get such order and kick me out of my kids life. I just don't know what to do..


----------



## PreRaphaelite

fearfulheart said:


> At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat .


That is exactly what you are and will be if you fall for your wife's pleas. She wants an R because the OM threw her under the bus. Isn't it obvious?


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Give her a fair chance at R in exchange for that letter then you will have an even playing field if it is a false R and he is just waiting until dust settles to pick her up again, and if it works out then you win as new ground rules in place and kids not upset


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## Calibre1212

FH - You get her to write you a letter about everything she did. That's all. Keep that sh!t in a safe deposit box and make plenty of copies. Play the "game" to win. You now have the upperhand but for how long? Use the time and her emotional instability to your advantage. Her stupid little plans or castles in the sky, are falling apart. Make good use of your position. It all boils down to that now. If she is carrying on like a beast, yelling screaming etc. start recording everything in the house car etc. PS. Don't get any further involved in salvaging the OM's reputation with his family etc. He is pathetic to even ask. She is even more pathetic than he could ever hope to be, at least he can blame it on being "young", she has no excuse whatsoever. 

Do not give her any more chances. You will screw yourself over bigtime. That's the lesson I learned, you have no idea what and where giving chances over and over again has now landed me and I won't tell anyone yet because it's not complete as yet. Everyday, I kick myself for giving another chance. It is the greatest self-sabotage that exists in this country. Don't do it. When a person shows you (versus tells you) who they are, you MUST believe them.

As for exposure Lenzi, it works, no matter the motivation, even if it just to position yourself, it repositions everyone else involved. Everyone has the right to do whatever they wish as long as it involves no physical violence. The thing about exposure that makes it work is that it is based on facts not verbal bull****. Your way worked for you, apparently you weren't emotionally connected to your ex. A majority of us who expose, are or were.


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## soccermom2three

I would have her write a letter too. A total timeline of the affair and an apology. 

Even if your wife totally played the OM (which is hard to believe) he has to have consequences for getting involved with a married woman. Just ignore his email. 

But..I would show her the email and say what you said here about how could she get involved with such a wimp.


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## bryanp

You are indeed the last choice for her.........at the moment.

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Calibre1212

Gonna give you a tid-bit. My exhusband convinced me to remarry him. His first objective, I came to later find out, was to find and destroy all the evidence I once had, including a letter he wrote to me at the beginning of his secret 6 year affair stating that he had taken money behind my back from our joint CD account and his attraction to women on his job (from the last five years of the first marriage). He is a calculating little b!tch. He succeeded. "They", to this day insist that their 6 year secret friendship was "just friends". He was more than elated to rub it in my face that I don't have any "proof". Hope I made myself painfully clear.


----------



## Chaparral

fearfulheart said:


> A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place.
> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....
> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


Did she fool the OM into thinking she was divorced or single? If not put him on cheaterville and send him and his family the link.


----------



## Chaparral

Has she offered total transparency? She goes from a raging witch to a crying, begging remorseful wife in a day?


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> . In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work.


The letter is good and bad. It shows the lengths you were willing to go to save your marriage. It’s like a plea bargain. The accused will admit to anything (even things they didn’t do) in order to spend less time in jail. Get a lawyer and tell them about the letter. Lawyers and judges really understand this concept. 

She will make a copy of your letter so there is no reason to ask for it back. Having her write a letter (in her handwriting) is an excellent idea. You can use the fact that you wrote her a letter and now you want one. As others have written, make sure it includes a timeline of the affair. 

Also have her include who was the aggressor. People tend to rewrite history so it will be great to have even it’s just to prove to her what happened years from now. Save it to the cloud. 

DNA the kids even if you’re sure they’re yours. It demonstrates to your wife the extent to which she has lost your trust. It will drive her crazy. Buy a kit at WalMart, Amazon or just about any drug store for $30. Swab the inside of your cheek and the kids with a Q-tip. Send it to a lab with $130 more.


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## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> I begged, pleaded, promised everything, cried etc., but she doesn't even want to talk. She has started talking to attorney's and has been doing a lot of things in secrecy (opening credit card account, checking child custody laws etc.).





fearfulheart said:


> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah.


Tell her that when you begged she rejected you and you didn’t cheat. Ask her why you should respond favorably to her begging now. 



fearfulheart said:


> It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it. WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further.


This shows that your wife is protecting the OM and still cares for him even after he dumped her. Save the email and *stop exposing for now*. It’s great leverage for good terms.  Wait for the divorce to be final and expose all you want.


----------



## Q tip

Don't be plan B. I feel you'll be that. She only came running back after you destroyed the A. That tells me something. A lot, actually. 

She's a toxic person. Pure poison.

Is that the type you want to be married to or with your kids...?

Read up on MMSLP. Will explain a lot to you. And improve you in many ways.


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


Your mind is set on D now but it will be difficult to stick to your guns. Without the OM your wife feels like she is fighting for her survival. Her emotions are real because she’s in a panic. 

She will seem truly remorseful because she is. If she could go back it time she wouldn’t do it knowing what she does now. If she ended up with the OM she would go back in time and do the same without a moment’s hesitation.

It’s like robbing a bank and keeping the money vs getting caught and spending 20 years in jail. “Oh God why did I even consider robbing that bank?” The emotion is very real.

She will use sex to get you back. Remind her why she needs to get tested for STDs and you don’t. She was faithful to the OM throughout her affair. Ask her why she suddenly wants to have sex with you now. Use a condom.

If you get a “slap on the wrist” as punishment its human nature to think that what you did must not have been that bad. I’m not against R but don’t take her back too easily. Make her work for it and tell her that there are no guarantees. 

Tell her that it will take time (maybe years) to decide what you want to do. What she wants is for the dust to settle with minimal fallout for her and the OM and for the affair to never be mentioned again. 

If you bring it up years from now she will say “I thought you forgave me” and “That was so long ago.” Make it clear now that you will be triggering for years and have the right to discuss it.

You will be setting the tone for the rest of your marriage. You’re in the driver’s seat for now. Don’t squander it.


----------



## soccermom2three

Chaparral said:


> Has she offered total transparency? She goes from a raging witch to a crying, begging remorseful wife in a day?


Yeah, because she's freaking out. She just went from two men to zero men.


----------



## toonaive

You wrote the letter under duress. Your wife, through her adulterous actions, manipulated you. You would have agreed to anything to save your marriage. The letter wont carry much weight. Your wife was was sleeping with another man. She has proven she cant be trusted. A good attorney can maneuver around this. An adulterous wife, can cause a man to act out of character. I wouldn't give it much thought. Hold your ground, continue to expose. They are loosing ground. Continue your divorce. After that, you can decide if you want her back or not. Divorce is the consequence of her actions. You need to level the playing field.


----------



## Calibre1212

I make an appeal to you FH, trust me when I tell you to never underestimate the value of your freedom. You do not see what's coming because your wounds are fresh. The info provided in the Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered is invaluable. Please read it. You must try to look ahead of you no matter the fogginess of the situation. The price I have to pay for my freedom is exponential. I have a choice: Stay in a vice-grip or walk away with nothing, including my children. Even if I walk away from everything and my children, I not be able to go fully forward without changing my identity (just a thought). Please do not ever find yourself at a crossroad like mine. I waited too long, giving mega chances despite the writing on the wall. It is mega insult to injury over and over and over. I know my situation is somewhat rare but it is what it it and if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone.

It is easy to say you are in the driver seat but you must know who you are taking with you and you must know where you are going with them. You can never drive straight ever again when your vehicle has a bent axle. Know that. Prepare for it. Don't you ever put yourself in that position again where you want something more than it is good for you.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat


This is exactly what you are, is there even any doubt? Obvioulsy you are her last choice, her *only* option at the moment, you know this. If her (ex)partner were to even hint about getting back together or any potential partner that comes along in the future then you would cast into the void.




fearfulheart said:


> I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place


You've been exactly that by being a doormat, begging and now wavering on taking her back. Perhaps she has a type.

You are considering taking her back because you have no resolve, you are being weak. She doesn't respect you and won't if you take her back.




fearfulheart said:


> This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling


She is panicking because her master plan fell apart, she doesn't get to ride off into the sunset with her lover. He is spineless and you will be as well if you welcome her lying, cheating self back with open arms. The only redeeming quality her (ex)partner has is realising what kind of person she is and dumping her. You would do well to do the same.

She is not remorseful, she is being manipulative. Her actions are not genuine, take her back and you will regret it and suffer for it. You haven't even had time to properly process her affair and how it has affected you.




fearfulheart said:


> I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of


The *rewriting* of *marital history*, *blame shifting* and *gas lighting* tend to stun and hit unassuming betrayed spouses very hard.
It was unexpected, you were in shock and believed the accusations because you love and trust your wife - why would she lie? It's not like she was trying to justify her affair and behaviour and assuage her guilt by making you seem like a monster and your marriage horrific, only that is exactly what she was doing. She took advantage of your emotional state and easily manipulated you.


You do not take her back. Tell her that you want to reconcile and figure out a way for you to get the letter. Tell her you want to take it to counselling or whatever, or that you need to see it in order to improve on your faults.

Then destroy it once it's in your possession and it's full steam ahead with divorce, kick her out and don't communicate with her unless it's about the children or finances. Keep any and all records of her infidelity.

Steel your resolve, focus on what you need to do and be efficient and resilient. Try to move forward and be happy, work towards a better life without having to deal with all of her s*** and drama.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

soccermom2three said:


> Yeah, because she's freaking out. She just went from two men to zero men.


:lol::iagree:


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

fearfulheart said:


> Just something else that bothers me in all this is earlier on (before I knew about this forum) I had done a grave mistake by begging and pleading with her to give this a marriage a chance (at that time I was not aware of any PA, just thought it was an one sided EA). In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work. I know she still has the letter and afraid that she may use it to get restraining order - from everything I have read, it is much easier for WW to get such order and kick me out of my kids life. I just don't know what to do..


Hire a lawyer and address this right now. Sorry, it can be a big deal. TROs and ROs are a dime a dozen that need little to no evidence. Once in place, they will follow you through your divorce.


----------



## arbitrator

TRy said:


> Cheating, by its very nature, is being selfish and unfair to your spouse. She was never going to be fair with him and let him simply walk away. You are under the false impression that if he went quietly into the night and not exposed, that she would have been nicer to him in the divorce. The truth is, cheaters will do what cheaters will do in a divorce. If she is going to be difficult and greedy in the divorce, she would have been no matter what he did. The only difference is that now he knows and can be better prepared for it, instead of giving her early concessions that he would later regret. He lost nothing but the false hope that she was going to be easy on him in the divorce.


* Greatly provided that she plays the correct cards as being "a cheater," your STBXW's legal counsel is going to do his damndest to keep any and all of the meeting notes out of testimony and thus out of the hearing, on the legal grounds of irrelevancy. He doesn't want it in there because its presence will destroy his case and simply lay waste to any viable defense that he might try to offer up to try to protect her scroungy ass.

Give your attorney everything you have and go get full custody of those kids of yours! Accordingly, she has aptly proven herself to be nothing more than an unfit mother! With what she's put on the dinner table for you, go for the jugular!
*


----------



## toonaive

OP, I greatly fear that you will take back your adulterous wife, only to come back to this forum at a later date in worse shape. This forum is littered with many many men who did that very thing, only to be in worse shape in the near future. Take the advise you are being freely given by those who have really lived it, and later regretted. Stay the course, Divorce your wife. Level the playing field. Only then will you have the clarity on whether to take her back or not. You need to SHOW her that you have options in your life.


----------



## NextTimeAround

tacoma said:


> And I still don't see any objective reason to expose in a relationship that has no chance for R.
> 
> You say "self respect" but my self respect doesn't hinge on the actions of my wife or anyone else for that matter.
> 
> *The only reasons I see for exposure beyond reconciliation are vengeful.*
> Don't get me wrong, I equate vengeance and justice quite closely.
> 
> I am all for and a ready practitioner of dealing out righteous vengeance.
> However, I'm smart enough to realize that there is a time and place for everything.
> 
> If my main goal(need)is to remove a person from my life quickly and painlessly it doesn't make much sense to piss them off enough to put up a fight that can harm me financially.
> 
> It's akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Having an affair and lying to your partner are vengeful too.


----------



## ThePheonix

fearfulheart said:


> In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work.


This week the award goes to you my man;


----------



## wmn1

fearfulheart said:


> Just something else that bothers me in all this is earlier on (before I knew about this forum) I had done a grave mistake by begging and pleading with her to give this a marriage a chance (at that time I was not aware of any PA, just thought it was an one sided EA). In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work. I know she still has the letter and afraid that she may use it to get restraining order - from everything I have read, it is much easier for WW to get such order and kick me out of my kids life. I just don't know what to do..


You can always claim that her affair and threats forced you into a desperate position where you would do anything to keep the peace, in other words, you were coerced into appeasing her in the letter.

I would lawyer up, tell your attorneys about the letter, separate your assets immediately and go to war. Make sure you get out everything you need before a restraining order is put into place and make sure you assume or operate under the assumption that one will be filed in a frivulous manner. It's over and 'emotional abuse' is hard to prove in court because it's a very vague, subjective term that will be evaluated then. Her adultery will offset any negatives that comes from that letter.

Make sure you find a good, bulldog type divorce attorney (someone who specializes in divorces only).


----------



## wmn1

you could also get the Om to admit in an email what transpired in exchange for a 'good word' to his parents. He gets what he wants, peace at home. You get what you want, documentation against her. Your battle is with her now, not him. Because she will be the one to go after you in court.


----------



## wmn1

finally, if you can stomach it, get her back in, find the letter and destroy it and once you have accomplished this, tell her the R is not working and she's out. ROs are so easy to file nowadays she may do it anyway but if you can hold your nose, prepare for the war and cover your tracks, you may just do a good enough job to get the upper hand


----------



## wmn1

Locke.Stratos said:


> This is exactly what you are, is there even any doubt? Obvioulsy you are her last choice, her *only* option at the moment, you know this. If her (ex)partner were to even hint about getting back together or any potential partner that comes along in the future then you would cast into the void.
> 
> 
> 
> You've been exactly that by being a doormat, begging and now wavering on taking her back. Perhaps she has a type.
> 
> You are considering taking her back because you have no resolve, you are being weak. She doesn't respect you and won't if you take her back.
> 
> 
> 
> She is panicking because her master plan fell apart, she doesn't get to ride off into the sunset with her lover. He is spineless and you will be as well if you welcome her lying, cheating self back with open arms. The only redeeming quality her (ex)partner has is realising what kind of person she is and dumping her. You would do well to do the same.
> 
> She is not remorseful, she is being manipulative. Her actions are not genuine, take her back and you will regret it and suffer for it. You haven't even had time to properly process her affair and how it has affected you.
> 
> 
> 
> The *rewriting* of *marital history*, *blame shifting* and *gas lighting* tend to stun and hit unassuming betrayed spouses very hard.
> It was unexpected, you were in shock and believed the accusations because you love and trust your wife - why would she lie? It's not like she was trying to justify her affair and behaviour and assuage her guilt by making you seem like a monster and your marriage horrific, only that is exactly what she was doing. She took advantage of your emotional state and easily manipulated you.
> 
> 
> You do not take her back. Tell her that you want to reconcile and figure out a way for you to get the letter. Tell her you want to take it to counselling or whatever, or that you need to see it in order to improve on your faults.
> 
> Then destroy it once it's in your possession and it's full steam ahead with divorce, kick her out and don't communicate with her unless it's about the children or finances. Keep any and all records of her infidelity.
> 
> Steel your resolve, focus on what you need to do and be efficient and resilient. Try to move forward and be happy, work towards a better life without having to deal with all of her s*** and drama.


My thoughts exactly, Locke


----------



## Calibre1212

wmn1 said:


> finally, if you can stomach it, get her back in, find the letter and destroy it and once you have accomplished this, tell her the R is not working and she's out. ROs are so easy to file nowadays she may do it anyway but if you can hold your nose, prepare for the war and cover your tracks, you may just do a good enough job to get the upper hand


Not at this stage...her lawyer already has the letter and she has copies. Just move past this letter for now and get her confession timeline and any other info about her treatment of you PLUS as cleverly mentioned prior, the timeline per the OM's perspective and even a confession of how his actions have impacted your life. Looks like you are in really great positions to obtain these 2 types of documents.


----------



## sidney2718

lenzi said:


> How does it help the situation?
> 
> He's in for a high conflict, expensive, drawn out divorce.
> 
> He could have simply walked away.
> 
> Not seeing what's gained here.


He was always in for a high conflict, expensive divorce. Walking away does not produce a divorce. If he doesn't file, she'd have been apt to keep things as they were.

As it is now, the OM has dumped her and she's left with nothing. When it comes to divorce the details probably won't matter. That's what no fault is all about.

But the BH got some stature back. He had the power and leveled the OM. A psychological level isn't a cave man punch in the face, but then, they won't jail him for twisting the OM's mind.


----------



## sidney2718

tacoma said:


> Actually I agree with lenzi.
> 
> The only benefit to exposure is getting your spouse away from the AP in order to reconcile.
> 
> If you aren't going to reconcile exposure is a bit foolish and just keeps you enmeshed in the drama, unable to get on with life.
> 
> If you really need the vengeance wait until after the D proceedings are over


It's interesting that this is usually my position as well. But in this case I think that the BH needed to see what he was up against. The WW isn't going to let go of the OM that quickly and this will roller coaster for a bit.

But I think that the BH's mind has been focussed and I think it gave him some belief in his own strength.


----------



## sidney2718

Chaparral said:


> Most used to say the om should be black and blue, those would be my role model.


And most would end up in jail and have a police record of violence that won't help when child custody is discussed.


----------



## sidney2718

tdwal said:


> I hate it when people advocate not exposing to the AP's spouse. It shows a lack of compassion they don't have. To them it seems to be all about money and how they can get away with as much as they can.
> 
> If they had a spouse that was a serial cheater and they weren't told with multiple occurrences they would be upset that nobody told them like we see on TAM all the time.


Well, now I'm going to argue the other side. There are pitfalls to exposing. It can bring a lot of violence on other marriages that may not deserve it.

The primary reason against exposure is that it may cost the WS their job. This MAY (depends on the state and the judge) cost the BS more in child support and alimony.

So in my opinion, it depends on the situation.


----------



## sidney2718

fearfulheart said:


> Just something else that bothers me in all this is earlier on (before I knew about this forum) I had done a grave mistake by begging and pleading with her to give this a marriage a chance (at that time I was not aware of any PA, just thought it was an one sided EA). In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work. I know she still has the letter and afraid that she may use it to get restraining order - from everything I have read, it is much easier for WW to get such order and kick me out of my kids life. I just don't know what to do..


Lawyer time.

And don't write a letter letting the OM totally off the hook. It won't work to your advantage.

Let me remind you that with a letter from you to the OM absolving him of blame and the letter from you to your wife, they will be in cheaters heaven.

You will have NO GROUNDS for anything, including keeping your kids. You'd be lucky to get every other weekend.

And I'll repeat what I said up top, lawyer time. Only a fool would enter this thicket without legal advice. Meanwhile write no letters.


----------



## sidney2718

One more thing. I join with those who urge you to have your wife provide you with a time line with dates, places, and what took place. Tell her that you must have that before you make any decisions, write any letters, etc.

And lawyer up.


----------



## Sports Fan

I can assure you the only reason he wants to meet up is for his benefit. 

He wants to 

A) Get you off his back and ensure that you offer him no more trouble. So he will most likely feed you some BS of how sorry he is and it just happened so please stop ringing his work, and parents house.

B) He will try to get more information from you so he and your wife can plan their next move once they know your intentions.

If it were me i'd meet him in a public place and i would be reading him the riot act, informing him that his misery has just begun, and that being with your wife is going to cost him more trouble than she is worth


----------



## Juicer

I would vote against meeting the OM under any situation. Mostly because, I imagine very few BH's can hold their rage in check when seeing the OM. 
And what could the OM possibly want? To say he is sorry? Or try and bribe you to get you to stop exposing him? Or for him to try and intimidate you into stopping? Or figure out your legal plan? 
There is no benefit you can get from meeting the OM. 

If you are going to, I would suggest a highly public place. Makes for several witnesses. 
I would also suggest bringing some friends along, and making sure that you and your friends arrive at separate times. 

This allows you to know that should you lose it, your friends will be there to stop you before you take it too far. 
And should the OM try something, they can either assist if you need it, or their testimony in court will be quite damning. 

But I will almost always vote for NOT GOING to anything with the OM. 
Losing your cool and giving the OM what he deserves can be very expensive.


----------



## manticore

fearfulheart said:


> *I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....*
> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


Dude how can you even consider for a second R?, it can not be clearer for a BS in the history of TAM that you are plan B damn your are even saying it yourself in the above paragraph.

let me remind you your own words



fearfulheart said:


> Meeting him did *help me realize what sort of a person I have been married to* - apparently after our meeting OM had called WW and told her it is over and that I he cannot withstand harassment of his parents over this. *She was so furious and kept yelling and cursing at me for dragging them into this and told me she will drag me to the court and fight over everything.* I just smiled and walked away from the room - felt somewhat good about what I did.


when she tought she had a shot with him she was resolved to do everything for him, includding destroying you to make you stop to exposing him, now that she realize he wants nothing with her she changes her bahaviour and goes directly to plan B, *that goes in 1 day from destroying you to have therapy with you. REALLYYYYYYYYYY?*.

if anything try to get that letter back with lies about R, but don't be stupid to actually try it, in her mind you obviously are damage control until something better shows up, after all is better for her to be a subarban married woman, that a divorced cheating single mother


----------



## Q tip

Let's say you're single. You're dating around and can magically see into the future. You see one lady is going to be a cheater and another who won't.

Which would you pick? Obviously, you'll go for the faithful one.

Well, she's still out there, looking for you. Why hang with a cheater. Tell her to go F herself. Get out and date hot women who don't cheat. 

Read MMSLP like now. It will explain you. It will explain women to you. Memorize the book. Read it several times.

Head over to a gym and get buf. Work out hard. You'll be better for it.

Dump the witch. Happily. Your new confidence and self will be your revenge. Live well.


----------



## lordmayhem

I can see where this is heading.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Please, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html and protect yourself!


----------



## Augusto

hay man......go even farther. In some states you can even sue the OM or OW for involvement in an affair. Check your laws see if it is possible. Sometimes shredding a heart has a price.


----------



## tulsy

fearfulheart said:


> A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place.
> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....
> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


Dude, don't be her plan B.

Listen to what everyone is telling you.


----------



## arbitrator

If you are even remotely considering R after what all that she's put you through, you are the fool indeed! 

Either that, or you've been eating the cocaine right out of the bag!


----------



## Lostinthought61

Faith i am afraid to say YES you are a doormat and in the end you have no to blame (not even her) but yourself


----------



## Yeswecan

fearfulheart said:


> A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it*You don't owe this guy a damn thing. Expose away.* - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place.
> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further *You don't owe her a damn thing.Expose away. Consequences brother. * - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. *She was blubbering because she is losing you and OM in one fell swoop. 180 sir. 180. Detach. Get a lawyer. * This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah.... *Simply yawn and walk away. *
> I had made up my mind on D *Good plan sir.* but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). *File anyway. You can retract it later on if you feel it necessary.* At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat *Time to 180 sir.* - hate all this confusion and drama.


----------



## badmemory

fearfulheart said:


> sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but *asks for a favor *- for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it.


The POSOM is asking you for a favor. lol.

Then you should do him a favor. Go ahead and communicate with his family. But let them know that along with your wife, you hold him responsible for breaking up a married man's family; and that you hope they will remind him of that so that it doesn't happen again.

The favor is; that perhaps this will help him understand in the future, that infidelity has consequences.

And for what it's worth, I agree with the other poster. Don't be her plan B. At least not until she convinces you that you no longer are. And that would take a whole lot of convincing.


----------



## Calibre1212

sidney2718 said:


> Well, now I'm going to argue the other side. There are pitfalls to exposing. It can bring a lot of violence on other marriages that may not deserve it.
> 
> The primary reason against exposure is that it may cost the WS their job. This MAY (depends on the state and the judge) cost the BS more in child support and alimony.
> 
> So in my opinion, it depends on the situation.


Agreed. But here's the legal trick with exposure: You nail the OM/OW with what your spouse "SAID" about "THEM".


----------



## the guy

So all your abuse and controlling issues are no longer a problem for your old lady?

I find it interesting that she wants to come back......I'm guessing maybe you weren't that bad of a husband.

I forgot she just got dumped by her lover!


I'm figuring you will be a good enough husband for now!

My point is what is your old lady willing to do to affair proof her marriage in the future?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Calibre1212 said:


> Agreed. But here's the legal trick with exposure: You nail the OM/OW with what your spouse "SAID" about "THEM".


This works best when there are doubts and what is said by the OM/OW is just tweaked a little to increase those doubts. It can be used on any relationship. There are doubts in all of them. It's the player's and OM/OW script to get what they want from those they should not.


----------



## vellocet

fearfulheart said:


> Just something else that bothers me in all this is earlier on (before I knew about this forum) I had done a grave mistake by begging and pleading with her to give this a marriage a chance (at that time I was not aware of any PA, just thought it was an one sided EA). In that process, I had written a long letter admitting to everything she had ever accused me of (emotional abuse, controlling etc.,) and had promised her that I will change and we can make this marriage work. I know she still has the letter and afraid that she may use it to get restraining order - from everything I have read, it is much easier for WW to get such order and kick me out of my kids life. I just don't know what to do..


She can't get a restraining order with a letter like that unless you admitted to beating her or something.

I wouldn't worry about it. Its not going to be enough to deny you your children. She can't kick you out of the house, and if you agreed to leave, then she will owe you half the equity, which would probably be negotiated out of whatever retirement you might have.

It doesn't matter. 50% of the assets is 50% and being the father, you'd be the one that would end up having to pay child support and be an every other weekend dad anyway. No amount of dirt she has will get her more than what she is already entitled, unless you were physically abusive to the kids, then she might be able to keep them from you.

Sucks to be the father in these situations, believe me, I know.


----------



## vellocet

the guy said:


> So all your abuse and controlling issues are no longer a problem for your old lady?
> 
> I find it interesting that she wants to come back......I'm guessing maybe you weren't that bad of a husband.
> 
> I forgot she just got dumped by her lover!
> 
> 
> I'm figuring you will be a good enough husband for now!
> 
> My point is what is your old lady willing to do to affair proof her marriage in the future?


I say F all that. Get an attorney and divorce her anyway. There is no such thing as a happy life living with a scumbag like her.


----------



## fearfulheart

This morning I told her clearly that I am proceeding with D because I will not be her plan B. She of course denied that I was her plan B and instead cried that she truly has changed her mind and wants to give M another chance. She even suggested that we go for MC after I file the papers since my state requires a 60 day cooling period. I just walked away, met with a couple of lawyers and showed them a copy of the letter I had written to her - they didn't feel she can obtain any restraining order as there was no physical violence involved and kids were never in the picture so that was a big relief. I did not file the papers today, thought of waiting till after holidays so the kids can have a somewhat pleasant one.


----------



## G.J.

Well done :smthumbup:

Keep working on the 180 and if she ever starts to beg and shows true remorse final decision is then yours


----------



## Q tip

fearfulheart said:


> This morning I told her clearly that I am proceeding with D because I will not be her plan B. She of course denied that I was her plan B and instead cried that she truly has changed her mind and wants to give M another chance. She even suggested that we go for MC after I file the papers since my state requires a 60 day cooling period. I just walked away, met with a couple of lawyers and showed them a copy of the letter I had written to her - they didn't feel she can obtain any restraining order as there was no physical violence involved and kids were never in the picture so that was a big relief. I did not file the papers today, thought of waiting till after holidays so the kids can have a somewhat pleasant one.


Yah, her response was text book. She didn't even try very hard. Just a few crocodile tears. Didn't sense any remorse out of what you said either. She's sorry she got caught and you spoiled everything. If it was true remorse, she'd be collapsed at your feet a snobling snot-bubble of a mess. (Where's Agnew when you need him...). 

File, have her served and in the mean time - look into protecting your finances. Continue planning. 

Do yourself a HUGE favor. Read up on MMSLP -- Married Man Sex Life Primer. EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong. 

She's broken.

Oh, if you weren't her plan B what else is there except cuckold? Sicko...


----------



## 2ntnuf

Q tip said:


> Yah, her response was text book. She didn't even try very hard. Just a few crocodile tears. Didn't sense any remorse out of what you said either. She's sorry she got caught and you spoiled everything. If it was true remorse, she'd be collapsed at your feet a snobling snot-bubble of a mess. (Where's Agnew when you need him...).
> 
> File, have her served and in the mean time - look into protecting your finances. Continue planning.
> 
> Do yourself a HUGE favor. Read up on MMSLP -- Married Man Sex Life Primer. EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong.
> 
> She's broken.
> 
> Oh, if you weren't her plan B what else is there except cuckold? Sicko...


I tend to agree, but for posterity's sake, if he is truly done, what does it matter? I am of course, assuming they live in a no-fault state.


----------



## Q tip

2ntnuf said:


> I tend to agree, but for posterity's sake, if he is truly done, what does it matter? I am of course, assuming they live in a no-fault state.


If you meant MMSLP, for his new future. Wiser and even more fun

Otherwise. Yah.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> I tend to agree, but for posterity's sake, if he is truly done, what does it matter? I am of course, assuming they live in a no-fault state.


She can still empty their bank accounts, spend money frivolously and get credit in their name. If you mean the book, it will help him moving forward in other relationships..


----------



## Calibre1212

2ntnuf said:


> This works best when there are doubts and what is said by the OM/OW is just tweaked a little to increase those doubts. It can be used on any relationship. There are doubts in all of them. It's the player's and OM/OW script to get what they want from those they should not.


It removes you from the equation in a potential lawsuit. He or she will have to sue your spouse for defam, if anything.


----------



## jim123

fearfulheart said:


> A lot has happened in just a day - my life story can be a hit soap opera. It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it - I don't get why WW got attracted to such a wimp in the first place.
> WW came begging and pleading to me yesterday to stop exposing them any further - I am sure he called her to tell her it is over between them because she was crying all night. This morning she wants R and wants to go for joint counseling blah blah blah....
> I had made up my mind on D but now that OM really has stepped away I am not sure if it is worth taking a pause (mainly because kids are involved and hate to make it hard on them). At the same time I don't want to be the man of last choice or a doormat - hate all this confusion and drama.


You are doing him two big favors by exposing.

You are making him change the type of person he has become.
He has two good parents that care more about his character than he does. Keep disclosing so he changes who he is. 

Your second favor is by disclosing he became lucky enough not to end up with your WW.

He has two great parents, your kids just have one.


----------



## jim123

fearfulheart said:


> This morning I told her clearly that I am proceeding with D because I will not be her plan B. She of course denied that I was her plan B and instead cried that she truly has changed her mind and wants to give M another chance. She even suggested that we go for MC after I file the papers since my state requires a 60 day cooling period. I just walked away, met with a couple of lawyers and showed them a copy of the letter I had written to her - they didn't feel she can obtain any restraining order as there was no physical violence involved and kids were never in the picture so that was a big relief. I did not file the papers today, thought of waiting till after holidays so the kids can have a somewhat pleasant one.


Do not wait to file, do it now. If you want don't tell the kids until after. You have an advantage now, take it.

Start the clock as soon as you can. Do not back off of OM either. Get full control. Start going to IC. Start working on you. Start building a life without her. Do not waste any time.

If you R it will be because you want to and on your terms. You will regret anything else and have a harder time in healing.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Q tip said:


> Yah, her response was text book


Totally, no real effort on her part. She has no genuine committment to you or your marriage, you're just the *DWHTBIHV* (Dude Who Happens To Be In Her Vicinity).

She was prepared to leave you, very well prepared. She had already visited attorneys, opened secret accounts, read up on custody laws, she had her whole new life mapped out. She was secretive and lied to you constantly.

The only reason she's singing a different tune now is because you scared her cowardly lover away. You are her fall back, her safety net.

Your response is also textbook, no real committment on your part either. You haven't filed because you're stalling and looking for reasons not to.

Visit your previous thread and remember how it was for you then, all that you went through. The gifts she bought him while you suffered or listen to the VAR of the two of them being intimate.

Start the process, file and have her served. She might actually begin to realize the gravity of her behaviour and if not then the process is already started and will be over that much sooner instead of drawn out.


----------



## Graywolf2

Don’t hesitate now because you’re not sure if you want to R or D. Either way the correct course of action is to divorce ASAP. In doing so you will gain respect for yourself and from your wife. 

You can even decide to shack up later for the sake of the kids if you want to. This way your wife will have paid a price (she is no longer your wife) and she is on an operational probation (it will be very easy for you to move out if she messes up).

My point is “full speed ahead” towards divorce.


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> It is apparent that OM has no balls because he sent me an email after our meeting stating that he will stay away from WW but asks for a favor - for me to communicate back to his family that he was innocent and it was WW that dragged him into it.


If you want to have some fun ask your wife who was the aggressor. If she says that the OM was, email him back. Tell him that you would love to him that favor but your wife insists that he dragged her into the affair.


----------



## fearfulheart

Any remote possibility of an R was shattered last night when she came back from work to tell me that she talked with OM and realized he was only stepping back waiting for this M to end - he is not abandoning. WTF! so she wants a collaborative divorce that can be done within few weeks!!! How I wish I had known who this person's true color is I would not have to go through this agony.


----------



## ButtPunch

Full steam ahead on the Divorce and keep exposing. Have you told OM's wife?
He broke any deal with you by contacting your WW.


----------



## tom67

fearfulheart said:


> Any remote possibility of an R was shattered last night when she came back from work to tell me that she talked with OM and realized he was only stepping back waiting for this M to end - he is not abandoning. WTF! so she wants a collaborative divorce that can be done within few weeks!!! How I wish I had known who this person's true color is I would not have to go through this agony.


Yep full steam ahead and let his w know call lawyers today see if you can get an appointment before the holidays.


----------



## Graywolf2

ButtPunch said:


> Full steam ahead on the Divorce and *keep exposing*.


Maybe not the “keep exposing part.” It depends on what you want. If you want R then expose to prevent OM from taking your wife. OM’s parents will accept a clean arrangement where you get a divorce and your ex and the OM start dating. 

If you want a D then don’t make waves with exposure. 

Your wife is desperate for D so she can begin her new life with the OM. Use this to drive a hard bargain for good terms. You’re in no hurry, your wife is. Conditions may change or the OM may change his mind. She wants a ring put on her finger ASAP. Use that to your advantage. You can expose all you want AFTER the divorce is final.


----------



## tom67

Graywolf2 said:


> Maybe not the “keep exposing part.” It depends on what you want. If you want R then expose to prevent OM from taking your wife. OM’s parents will accept a clean arrangement where you get a divorce and your ex and the OM start dating.
> If you want a D then don’t make waves.
> 
> Your wife is desperate for D so she can begin her new life with the OM. Use this to drive a hard bargain for good terms. You’re in no hurry, your wife is. Conditions may change or the OM may change his mind. She wants a ring put on her finger ASAP. Use that to your advantage. You can expose all you want AFTER the divorce is final.


:iagree:
Forgot the loser lives with his parents


----------



## toonaive

She is manipulating you again with the "collaborative" divorce talk. She is trying to calm you down, and stall. Go hardcore. File! and do it first, do it now! Do not allow her to control the process. Continue to expose. Keep up the pressure, be the one to drive the divorce on your terms. Not hers or the POSOM! That is your strength position. Any more delay on your part gives them more time to gain from you. Make sure in the divorce complaint, you have the name and address of the POSOM. Not sure what state you are in. This may not have any teeth. But, sure would look embarrassing to be named in a divorce petition. His reaction to this, may tell you whether your adulterous wife is telling the truth or not.


----------



## ButtPunch

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> Forgot the loser lives with his parents


Really I thought he was married. These threads run together. My bad.


----------



## 3putt

Do you know for a fact he said this or is it just her word? If this were true, I would think they would both be keeping it as quiet as possible, not shouting it from the rooftops.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> Do you know for a fact he said this or is it just her word? If this were true, I would think they would both be keeping it as quiet as possible, not shouting it from the rooftops.


Gloves off tell his parents.
Does he work tell his boss.
Don't stop.


----------



## fearfulheart

3putt said:


> Do you know for a fact he said this or is it just her word? If this were true, I would think they would both be keeping it as quiet as possible, not shouting it from the rooftops.


She did not say it out loud - she had told me in the morning that she was going to confront him and tell him he is a jerk...this was when she was trying to cling on to me (plan b). It looks like when they did meet she had a change of heart and didn't want to share what they had talked. When I asked her response was - "he has agreed to step back (and not stay away) and give some time for us to "sort" through our M. So I want to work with you and use the collaborative law to get through the divorce"... 
I hit myself on the head as to why I would even bother initiating such a conversation - shame on me.. divorce it is and not any of those collaborative bu** s**t. 
since at fault (adultery) divorce process will take a long time and drain my money I might just petition for no-fault and walk away (more like run away) from this toxic poison that came into my life.


----------



## badmemory

I understand you'd want to get out of this with the least drama possible; and exposing can create drama.

But the POSOM asked you for a favor - to contact his family to say he's innocent. He's shown you his Achilles heel so to speak. 

All I can tell you is that there is no way in holy hell that I could resist contacting his family to do the opposite.


----------



## G.J.

badmemory said:


> I understand you'd want to get out of this with the least drama possible; and exposing can create drama.
> 
> But the POSOM asked you for a favor - to contact his family to say he's innocent. He's shown you his Achilles heel so to speak.
> 
> All I can tell you is that there is no way in holy hell that I could resist contacting his family to do the opposite.


:iagree:

Inform the family what their plan is


----------



## vellocet

fearfulheart said:


> She did not say it out loud - she had told me in the morning that she was going to confront him and tell him he is a jerk



Oh no no no no. She is doesn't get to hypocritically assign any negative traits to him, no matter how accurate, without looking ridiculous.

A cheater calling their sex on the side a jerk? :rofl:



> since at fault (adultery) divorce process will take a long time and drain my money I might just petition for no-fault and walk away (more like run away) from this toxic poison that came into my life


It doesn't have to drain you. Here is what you do. Let your attorney handle it all. Do not contact your attorney every time you turn around. Don't be in a hurry. This is what I did in my divorce. My x-wife racked up a hell of a bill because she contacted her attorney all the time.

Everytime she contacted him, cha-ching, the meter ran. I let my attorney contact me when need be. Very low billing hours. And that was my attorney's strategy....to sandbag and not be in a hurry.

So just let your attorney handle it and let your attorney contact you to keep the billable hours down.


----------



## convert

I would also put him on cheaterville

remember stick with the facts when you post to cheaterville


----------



## vellocet

convert said:


> I would also put him on cheaterville
> 
> remember stick with the facts when you post to cheaterville


If he is going to put HIM on cheaterville, he'd first need to put HER on it.

I always say, consequences and blame on the OM/OW is justified, but not more than for the cheating spouse.

Actually I wouldn't bother putting either of them on it. They are POS not worth the effort. But if he did, I'd wait until the divorce is over.


----------



## convert

vellocet said:


> If he is going to put HIM on cheaterville, *he'd first need to put HER on it*.
> 
> I always say, consequences and blame on the OM/OW is justified, but not more than for the cheating spouse.
> 
> Actually I wouldn't bother putting either of them on it. They are POS not worth the effort. *But if he did, I'd wait until the divorce is over.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> :iagree:


----------



## fearfulheart

As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


----------



## 3putt

fearfulheart said:


> As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


Nope! Just more bullsh!t hot air from another WS. What would the cops arrest or hassle you for?....telling the truth?


----------



## arbitrator

Fearful: What did you say that your and your W's ages are. And what is the age of this OM that has been in dire need of getting his wick dipped in strange places, but is still somehow managing to bunk in with Mom and Dad?


----------



## fearfulheart

arbitrator said:


> Fearful: What did you say that your and your W's ages are. And what is the age of this OM that has been in dire need of getting his wick dipped in strange places, but is still somehow managing to bunk in with Mom and Dad?


OM is in his mid 30's, WW is in her mid 40's same as me - he is single bunking with his mom


----------



## 2ntnuf

I doubt he will want to leave home. I bet your wife is wondering where she will live.


----------



## wmn1

Graywolf2 said:


> Maybe not the “keep exposing part.” It depends on what you want. If you want R then expose to prevent OM from taking your wife. OM’s parents will accept a clean arrangement where you get a divorce and your ex and the OM start dating.
> 
> If you want a D then don’t make waves with exposure.
> 
> Your wife is desperate for D so she can begin her new life with the OM. Use this to drive a hard bargain for good terms. You’re in no hurry, your wife is. Conditions may change or the OM may change his mind. She wants a ring put on her finger ASAP. Use that to your advantage. You can expose all you want AFTER the divorce is final.


I agree with this completely. Use her weakness against her to get a good deal from the divorce. If you push her hard, she can fight you into bankruptcy. Expose later !!! and do so thoroughly


----------



## wmn1

fearfulheart said:


> She did not say it out loud - she had told me in the morning that she was going to confront him and tell him he is a jerk...this was when she was trying to cling on to me (plan b). It looks like when they did meet she had a change of heart and didn't want to share what they had talked. When I asked her response was - "he has agreed to step back (and not stay away) and give some time for us to "sort" through our M. So I want to work with you and use the collaborative law to get through the divorce"...
> I hit myself on the head as to why I would even bother initiating such a conversation - shame on me.. divorce it is and not any of those collaborative bu** s**t.
> since at fault (adultery) divorce process will take a long time and drain my money I might just petition for no-fault and walk away (more like run away) from this toxic poison that came into my life.


she sounds evil and confused as well. Irreconcilable Differences divorce though it would be great to hit her with adultery though as you note, that takes longer and can be grueling


----------



## wmn1

vellocet said:


> Oh no no no no. She is doesn't get to hypocritically assign any negative traits to him, no matter how accurate, without looking ridiculous.
> 
> A cheater calling their sex on the side a jerk? :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to drain you. Here is what you do. Let your attorney handle it all. Do not contact your attorney every time you turn around. Don't be in a hurry. This is what I did in my divorce. My x-wife racked up a hell of a bill because she contacted her attorney all the time.
> 
> Everytime she contacted him, cha-ching, the meter ran. I let my attorney contact me when need be. Very low billing hours. And that was my attorney's strategy....to sandbag and not be in a hurry.
> 
> So just let your attorney handle it and let your attorney contact you to keep the billable hours down.



this is a good strategy. The only downfall is if the judge determines that legal fees could come out of the marital assets first then her activeness could hurt you in the end. Run this by your attorney regarding how it is handled in your area. I am glad Vellocet played it smart and won. It would be great if you could as well.


----------



## arbitrator

So if the OM was domiciled with Mom and Dad, I guess that it would stand to reason that he and your STBXW must have undoubtedly used Mom's abode to turn on their whoopie machine. Was that where you parked outside waiting for her to emerge?

I would sure as hell hope that none of their lustful rendezvous' actually occurred in your house during your absence!


----------



## Wazza

fearfulheart said:


> As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


The whole question of exposure is vexed, and you will get wildly contradictory advice here. 

In different stories on TAM I have seen good and bad come from exposure. If you are going to do it, for goodness sake get legal advice about the ramification of your actions BEFORE you do any more.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

fearfulheart said:


> As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


You may find yourself charged with harassment or abusive behaviour depending on your laws so be careful especially with any written word and what's said in front of witnesses


----------



## arbitrator

Fearful: You've already uncovered and identified the tumor in this situation. So now all that you need is the skilled surgeon(lawyer) to remove it as cost-effectively as they can!


----------



## Forest

fearfulheart said:


> As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


She's just blowing smoke at you.

What you describe is a civil matter (between two people) vs a criminal matter (in violation of a city/state statute). Generally, unless your communications are threatening or obscene, there's nothing the police will do.

Civilly, the main point is to tell only the truth. Truth is always a defense to slander, etc. You might point out to her that in some states, adultery is still illegal, and a felony.


----------



## convert

*keep a VAR on you at all times when she is around you.*

she might try false DV charges, get you kicked out of your own house so OM can move in.

it has happened


----------



## 2ntnuf

She will likely want to get anything she can to try to get your house. Can't remember if you own or rent? If you own and you want to stay there, it would be good to take some steps to protect yourself. Sometimes, it's best to find a place that doesn't have those memories.


----------



## Jasel

convert said:


> *keep a VAR on you at all times when she is around you.*
> 
> she might try false DV charges, get you kicked out of your own house so OM can move in.
> 
> it has happened


Edited for emphasis. 

Do not be alone with this woman without a voice recorder on you, save all her emails, save all her texts. If anything you should try to keep communication in writing as much as possible just in case she types or writes something that could help you in court. Remember though that goes both ways so don't say or write anything to her that could hurt _you_ later. 

I don't remember if you have kids or not living at home. If so and there's a custody fight I'd start documenting her behavior as it pertains to your kids. Especially how much she does for them, how much time she spends with them, and how much time she's away from the home including work. Might not help but you never know.


----------



## arbitrator

More especially if she left the kids at home at anytime, either with you or alone ~to go roll the OM's bones over at his residence or even elsewhere.

And I'd really want to know if she was shagging him under your own roof, probably right there in your very own bed, with the kids present right there within the confines of your house.

That's why I was asking you for all of the suspected alleged locations of their illicit, steamy contact! 

Actually, this could well end up being a "win-win" situation for you, greatly provided that you were to play your legal cards just right!


----------



## vellocet

fearfulheart said:


> As part of my exposure saga I had also sent a note to her workplace. Looks like she was questioned about it today and she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


Let her call the police. Document your conversation with dates and times....give it to your attorney.


----------



## vellocet

fearfulheart said:


> OM is in his mid 30's, WW is in her mid 40's same as me - he is single bunking with his mom


:rofl:


----------



## vellocet

wmn1 said:


> this is a good strategy. The only downfall is if the judge determines that legal fees could come out of the marital assets first then her activeness could hurt you in the end. Run this by your attorney regarding how it is handled in your area. I am glad Vellocet played it smart and won. It would be great if you could as well.


I don't know of many judges that will do that.

OP, ask an attorney about filing, and when you can separate finances. This way anything she does from then on out is on her, and what you do is on you.


----------



## Jellybeans

It's never going to work out between them (your wife and OM).


----------



## vellocet

Jellybeans said:


> It's never going to work out between them (your wife and OM).


I know, and when younger guy gets rid of her because she is too old (meaning gets in the 50's and he is still relatively young looking), she'll crash and burn. Then OP can grin from ear to ear.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Jellybeans said:


> It's never going to work out between them (your wife and OM).


You cant tell them that, she wont listen she is too wrapped up on mister wonderful to think like this and to busy comparing hubby against him holding every little word and inaction over the years to justify what she is doing, only she can lift the veil and face reality again but doesn't look to be anytime soon perhaps when he slinks off to mummy she will


----------



## 2ntnuf

She has needs he is meeting. What could those be? He doesn't have really much to offer, it seems. There is something, or she wouldn't be there.


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> She has needs he is meeting. What could those be? He doesn't have really much to offer, it seems. There is something, or she wouldn't be there.


She needs to feel cheap?

Really, I'll bet she just wants attention and compliments, and will resort to cheap behavior to get them.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Obviously she doesn't feel cheap enough to choose to divorce before choosing to lie and cheat. The need is more important than her beliefs about her character.


----------



## S&W500

2ntnuf said:


> She has needs he is meeting. What could those be? He doesn't have really much to offer, it seems. There is something, or she wouldn't be there.


'Needs' almost always means 'Sex'.


----------



## Calibre1212

convert said:


> vellocet said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he is going to put HIM on cheaterville, *he'd first need to put HER on it*.
> 
> I always say, consequences and blame on the OM/OW is justified, but not more than for the cheating spouse.
> 
> Actually I wouldn't bother putting either of them on it. They are POS not worth the effort. *But if he did, I'd wait until the divorce is over.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> 
> 
> I advocate exposure BUT never expose your spouse/X2B until after your divorce is final, if you still feel like it & NEVER when you have children with them. Turn the tables on the cheater via the OM/OW - They took the time to F**K you over...It's the least you can do in return & as a departure gift  Let them restart their "baaad" romance in therapy :rofl:
> 
> P.S. The odds of the OM/OW suing your spouse are 0 to nothing (they would love to sue you though) when you word the exposure correctly, but it will cause a gigantic rift between them only therapy can resolve
Click to expand...


----------



## lenzi

fearfulheart said:


> she just called me yelling and screaming that she is going to call the police because according to her she fears for the kids safety and hers. will the police entertain such requests and should I be prepared for some ramifications?


You should be prepared for the ramifications of pissing her off. Women file restraining orders on their soon to be exhusbands- all the time. It's like Divorce 101. Gets you out of the house, gives her an edge in custody negotiations and knocks you on your a$$ and maybe knocks the window out of your sails so you can't fight back effectively.

You're accomplishing a lot with all this exposure and it's all bad.

She's not coming back. All you're doing is making things more difficult.


----------



## 2ntnuf

S&W500 said:


> 'Needs' almost always means 'Sex'.


Well, that's what I was thinking, but it seems so shallow I didn't want to be the first to put it in writing. I didn't want to believe sex is more important than a personal commitment to love someone for the rest of your life. In some cases, I know this can't happen. It's like this. How important is, "my word", to me? If it is important to me, I will do all I can to avoid going against it. It doesn't matter what she does. All that matters is I don't go against my own personal beliefs. So, I have to find an alternative to infidelity, or I make my own words a lie. I can't allow myself to do that. My word is all I have.


----------



## Jellybeans

vellocet said:


> I know, and when younger guy gets rid of her because she is too old (meaning gets in the 50's and he is still relatively young looking), she'll crash and burn. Then OP can grin from ear to ear.


You are generous. I don't think they'll make it to the 50s. 2 years is the max. And I think it's way less time than that being that OM is spinning and freaking out.


----------



## naiveonedave

2ntnuf said:


> Well, that's what I was thinking, but it seems so shallow I didn't want to be the first to put it in writing. I didn't want to believe sex is more important than a personal commitment to love someone for the rest of your life. In some cases, I know this can't happen. It's like this. How important is, "my word", to me? If it is important to me, I will do all I can to avoid going against it. It doesn't matter what she does. All that matters is I don't go against my own personal beliefs. So, I have to find an alternative to infidelity, or I make my own words a lie. I can't allow myself to do that. My word is all I have.


My opinion, this is just the new luv chemicals deluded people into making pi$$ poor choices.


----------



## 2ntnuf

naiveonedave said:


> My opinion, this is just the new luv chemicals deluded people into making pi$$ poor choices.


Those really don't kick in until sex. The sex has to be decent too.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> Those really don't kick in until sex. The sex has to be decent too.


They kick in strongly before, the sex adds another chemical component. It's why many say, I know some lie, the sex wasn't that good or they did things they wouldn't do with their spouse. Those early lust/romance brain chemicals are powerful before sexual contact.


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> They kick in strongly before, the sex adds another chemical component. It's why many say, I know some lie, the sex wasn't that good or they did things they wouldn't do with their spouse. Those early lust/romance brain chemicals are powerful before sexual contact.


I agree with this and want to add that once sex occurs and is decent, it creates a bond that can not be broken. One has to find they don't respect that person and feel revulsion toward them whether manufactured or based in fact to choose to turn from them. Even at that, there will always be a fondness for memories. Before sex, there is less of a permanent effect. 

Do you remember the women or girls you dated without having sex as fondly as you do the ones you had sex with? I don't. There is something to that component which cannot be denied. Some can compartmentalize better than others, separating the sex from love more easily. I can't. I sometimes wish I could, but I am who I am and don't want to cheapen the experience. That is what makes me who I am and there is nothing wrong with the others. I just don't think they are compatible with me. 

I hope this helps explain. I can only explain by what I have experienced and learned. That's why I speak of myself.


----------



## Q tip

Perhaps her plan is to D, kick you out of the home, move him in and you pay for the mortgage while they Fvck. So protect yourself on this point.

He's 30, but will tire of her as she is close to her expiration date. So they won't marry and marriage would not workout anyway. Then he'll leave her after a few months and move back to mom & dad's place. 

But --- who cares. You be dating younger, hotter babes and you'll drive your XW crazy with regret of what she's done to herself. You won't want her back anyway. Used, cheating old bag of sh!t compared to your younger hotter babes... who won't cheat. 

Revenge: Move on. Live well. Be happy.

ETA: have you read MMSLP yet??? Info in it is an attractor for the ladies you know...


----------



## Forest

naiveonedave said:


> My opinion, this is just the new luv chemicals deluded people into making pi$$ poor choices.





2ntnuf said:


> Those really don't kick in until sex. The sex has to be decent too.


You guys are approaching this like men trying to think like women.

We need to get a woman to confirm. 
I still posit that its not sex, luv, or chemicals. Its what makes her feel desired, pursued, and powerful: attention and compliments. 

Something a POS man can easily supply because its simple, cheap, shallow, and results in sex.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> I agree with this and want to add that once sex occurs and is decent, it creates a bond that can not be broken.


They can become intertwined, but people leave marriages for EAs, with no sex involved, all of the time. I actually know of two in my personal life. 

Yes, I remember some no sex girlfriends fondly.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> You guys are approaching this like men trying to think like women.
> 
> We need to get a woman to confirm.
> I still posit that its not sex, luv, or chemicals. Its what makes her feel desired, pursued, and powerful: attention and compliments.
> 
> Something a POS man can easily supply because its simple, cheap, shallow, and results in sex.


I'm reading this thinking...that makes sense. I always did over-think things. It's too simple. If this can be done that easily, why don't we all have a supermodel on our arm? I guess that's because they must be first attracted to us and looking. We must then pursue. So, if they are lacking in attention and compliments, they will cheat? Nah, not every time? Why then don't they come back when their husband starts to compliment them? He is then a doormat, isn't he? So, what makes him a doormat at that point? What occurred that made her choose a new guy over the one she has invested so much into? A lack of compliments and attention? Sheesh, that's shallow. I'm having a tough time here.


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> They can become intertwined, but people leave marriages for EAs, with no sex involved, all of the time. I actually know of two in my personal life.
> 
> Yes, I remember some no sex girlfriends fondly.


So, you guys don't believe the science that sex creates a bond? Maybe your definition of fondness and mine are a little different? I know there is a difference in how I feel when I think of those I have had sex with versus those I was attracted to, but never had sex with. 

Okay...I think I'll have to have proof to truly believe it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

2ntnuf said:


> So, you guys don't believe the science that sex creates a bond?


One of the fondest memories I have is with a girl I never slept with. The bond is there before the sex ever happens. The sex is just an expression of the existing bond in a physical manner. She wants him before she opens her legs not after. It's not so much that "decent" sex converted her (you could of used all the same moves and positions as the OM did) but for the WW it was "hot and heavy" because the bond makes it so. She was INTO him, not you. It is new, exciting and forbidden. It's like winning a free meal at a restaurant. If you paid for it, it would be ok but because you got it for free the same food you won now tastes much better.

I also agree with Forest. Attention and compliments create the bond. Sex is the reciprocation.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> So, you guys don't believe the science that sex creates a bond?


 I neither said, nor implied, any such thing. 


2ntnuf said:


> Maybe your definition of fondness and mine are a little different? I know there is a difference in how I feel when I think of those I have had sex with versus those I was attracted to, but never had sex with.
> Okay...I think I'll have to have proof to truly believe it.


Woah Woah Woah...... You have shifted words four times to imply something I never intimated.
Derail on my end is done.


----------



## 2ntnuf

BetrayedDad said:


> The bond is there before the sex ever happens. The sex is just an expression of the bond in a physical manner. She wants him before she opens her legs not after. It's not so much that "decent" sex converted her (you could of used all the same moves and positions as the OM did) but for the WW it was "hot and heavy" because the bond makes it so. She was INTO him, not you. It is new, exciting and forbidden. It's like winning a free meal at a restaurant. If you paid for it, it would be ok but because you got it for free the same food you won now tastes much better.


"decent" just meant, not rapey or scary or some other negative. 

You mean it's that easy? All I gotta do is sit down and listen to your old lady and tell her she's pretty for a week or two? 

I've got more faith in the intelligence of women and their respect for themselves. 

I'm listening. Go on...


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I neither said, nor implied, any such thing.
> 
> Woah Woah Woah...... You have shifted words four times to imply something I never intimated.
> Derail on my end is done.


I replied to what I read. You may have implied something I didn't read.


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> I'm reading this thinking...that makes sense. I always did over-think things. It's too simple. If this can be done that easily, why don't we all have a supermodel on our arm? I guess that's because they must be first attracted to us and looking. We must then pursue. So, if they are lacking in attention and compliments, they will cheat? Nah, not every time? Why then don't they come back when their husband starts to compliment them? He is then a doormat, isn't he? So, what makes him a doormat at that point? What occurred that made her choose a new guy over the one she has invested so much into? A lack of compliments and attention? Sheesh, that's shallow. I'm having a tough time here.


My simplistic formula has explanations for all this.

Supermodels? The have supermodel tastes that your average guy can't meet. I'm more focused on the gals in the office, etc.
I'm looking at the cheating phenom, and those prone to it. No, not every woman is a cheater, mostly those that possess that underlying, outsized need for attention.

Let's assume good ole hubby is doing what we'd consider a reasonable job in this area.

Reasonable? Heh, Reasonable never cuts it. Whatever he's supplying she gradually becomes accustomed to, and develops a tolerance. Like a drug, it doesn't supply that same high. What she needs is a better fix. Something new to get that kick from. 

POS OM enters the picture. He's already at work, getting paid. Easier to chat up the ladies than work, no? "You look nice" from him achieves that little flutter in her stomach. Did hubby tell me that today? (yes, but she was looking for her keys-didn't listen)

That flutter. Just like she used to feel. That's what unlocks the door to infidelity. She likely never set out to make her husband a doormat. Heck, once she sees what a jerk-off POSOM is, she may wake up some.


----------



## Q tip

2ntnuf said:


> "decent" just meant, not rapey or scary or some other negative.
> 
> You mean it's that easy? All I gotta do is sit down and listen to your old lady and tell her she's pretty for a week or two?
> 
> I've got more faith in the intelligence of women and their respect for themselves.
> 
> I'm listening. Go on...


You forgot the compliment and flowers...


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> "decent" just meant, not rapey or scary or some other negative.
> 
> You mean it's that easy? All I gotta do is sit down and listen to your old lady and tell her she's pretty for a week or two?
> 
> I've got more faith in the intelligence of women and their respect for themselves.
> 
> I'm listening. Go on...


Didn't you indicate it was sex they were really after? That kind of intelligent and respectful stuff?

To reiterate, I'm referencing cheating ones only.


----------



## BetrayedDad

2ntnuf said:


> "decent" just meant, not rapey or scary or some other negative.
> 
> You mean it's that easy? All I gotta do is sit down and listen to your old lady and tell her she's pretty for a week or two?
> 
> I've got more faith in the intelligence of women and their respect for themselves.
> 
> I'm listening. Go on...



As opposed to your position, which is what? As long as I have a one night stand with a girl and give her a good time she will bond with me? 

I also have more faith in women and trust me plenty of women enjoy no strings casual sex without bonding. 

There are obviously prerequisities besides just giving her compliments and attention such as:

1) Her finding you attractive enough.

2) Weak boundries or lose morality on her part.

3) Bored or bad home life (looking for an escape).

There's a few but you get the picture. The whole pick up culture is based getting the girl to fall for you through compliments and attention so she will sleep with you. As I said, there are broken women who will sleep with anyone but the majority need a bond first. Saying they have sex then bond because of it is in my opinion completely backwards.


----------



## Graywolf2

Forest said:


> Let's assume good ole hubby is doing what we'd consider a reasonable job in this area.
> 
> Reasonable? Heh, Reasonable never cuts it. Whatever he's supplying she gradually becomes accustomed to, and develops a tolerance. Like a drug, it doesn't supply that same high. What she needs is a better fix. Something new to get that kick from.


:iagree:

I read that a WW once told her BH: “Of course you told me that I was beautiful but you only said that because you love me.”

Very sad


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> Didn't you indicate it was sex they were really after?


I checked. I didn't see that. 



Forest said:


> That kind of intelligent and respectful stuff?


I think I was just trying to be respectful. The rest was science I've read on reputable sites. 



Forest said:


> To reiterate, I'm referencing cheating ones only.


Yeah, I get that what you were saying was an attempt to degrade those who have harmed men by infidelity. I understand. I was just trying to leave emotion out of my posts and go for respect. Yeah, I could and likely have said things that I regret. I'm attempting a new tactic. Understanding, even if I disagree and a modicum of respect.


----------



## Q tip

Forget this supermodel out of your league crap. You've been taught wrong about women for crying out loud...

A compliment goes waaaaay farther than a typical guy realizes.

Example. A Supermodel type at the club I workout at was walking by. I gave her a compliment and she screeched to a halt turned to me and smiled for my next comment. 

I had an ulterior motive, and she played right into my hands like putty with my smooth chatter. My wife was right behind her and I wanted supermodel to talk to my wife about weightlifting and benefits (super efficient fat loss, strength, tight body...) of heavy lifting as opposed to Yoga, aerobics and such - as an encouragement for her to get more involved with weights. She's only just started and wants to catch up with me. (Read MMSLP, it works just like the book says). 

Otherwise it was just me encouraging weightlifting. You know, H teaching W. 

Supermodel was absolutely helpful and motivating my wife to continue the weight lifting. We both thanked her. 

It was a decent compliment that got her attention. Nothing like "excuse me miss... ". I went for the good stuff and got an immediate reaction and a beautiful smile. Well, I am in shape, that probably made a difference though. 

Sorry the jack of a jack...


----------



## 2ntnuf

BetrayedDad said:


> As opposed to your position, which is what? As long as I have a one night stand with a girl and give her a good time she will bond with me?
> 
> I also have more faith in women and trust me plenty of women enjoy no strings casual sex without bonding.
> 
> There are obviously prerequisities besides just giving her compliments and attention such as:
> 
> 1) Her finding you attractive enough.
> 
> 2) Weak boundries or lose morality on her part.
> 
> 3) Bored or bad home life (looking for an escape).
> 
> There's a few but you get the picture. The whole pick up culture is based getting the girl to fall for you through compliments and attention so she will sleep with you. As I said, there are broken women who will sleep with anyone but the majority need a bond first. Saying they have sex then bond because of it is in my opinion completely backwards.


NO, I am not saying that a ONS will create a bond. NO

What I am saying is, in a case where a decent woman is married and she is goaded, coaxed, seduced, enticed, etc. away from her husband for sex, it takes more than just being horny and needing sex to create a lasting bond. If there is an EA over time, like many cases of infidelity, there will be some sort of bond there or at least an acceptance, I agree. When you add sex into that, the bond is strengthened and reinforced with each encounter. She still has to make that decision to continue thoughout. The brain chemicals don't make any decsions for her.

Neither do these chemicals make any decisions for men either. Yes, they do come into play with men, too. 

I disagree with your use of the word bond in that manner. I think a woman has to feel safe, laugh a little, feel attraction for and feel desired, and a couple other things I can't remember, to decide to have sex with a man. Her brain chemicals don't make any decisions for her. 

Now, if you are saying there are men and women out there who just want to have sex and don't care if they or their partner is married or not, I agree. No or little bonding happens, depending on the individual.


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> I checked. I didn't see that.


It was this exchange I was talking about:



2ntnuf said:


> She has needs he is meeting. What could those be? He doesn't have really much to offer, it seems. There is something, or she wouldn't be there.





S&W500 said:


> 'Needs' almost always means 'Sex'.





2ntnuf said:


> Well, that's what I was thinking, but it seems so shallow I didn't want to be the first to put it in writing.


Thus, my comment that it appeared you thought these women were looking mostly for sex, which I failed to find intelligent or respectful. Whether female or male, adulterers get no cloak over the mud-puddle in my book. Its just phony, PC schtick. Eff that "I don't agree, but still respect" naz.

If a person has "needs", she/he can either go thru conventional avenues to try and rectify the marriage, exit the marriage, or just do without. Since the beginning out time people have foregone ridiculous perceived "needs" in respect of the greater good. Today she needs sex, tomorrow she'll need money, someone else's rich husband, the neighbor's new Lexus....


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> Yeah, I get that what you were saying was an attempt to degrade those who have harmed men by infidelity. I understand. I was just trying to leave emotion out of my posts and go for respect. Yeah, I could and likely have said things that I regret. I'm attempting a new tactic. Understanding, even if I disagree and a modicum of respect.


How wonderfully 21st Century.

I'm degrading the adulterous marriage-wrecking cheaters by insinuating they have an unmet need for attention.

These folks surely don't need my help for any degradation exercises. They've achieved that completely by their own actions.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> It was this exchange I was talking about:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thus, my comment that it appeared you thought these women were looking mostly for sex, which I failed to find intelligent or respectful. Whether female or male, adulterers get no cloak over the mud-puddle in my book. Its just phony, PC schtick. Eff that "I don't agree, but still respect" naz.
> 
> If a person has "needs", she/he can either go thru conventional avenues to try and rectify the marriage, exit the marriage, or just do without. Since the beginning out time people have foregone ridiculous perceived "needs" in respect of the greater good. Today she needs sex, tomorrow she'll need money, someone else's rich husband, the neighbor's new Lexus....


I believe I was talking about this man's wife. You know what? There's a lot of assuming going on here. What did you think I was doing by writing in a manner like that? Protecting his wife or trying not to further hurt a man that's already hurt and confused?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> How wonderfully 21st Century.
> 
> I'm degrading the adulterous marriage-wrecking cheaters by insinuating they have an unmet need for attention.
> 
> These folks surely don't need my help for any degradation exercises. They've achieved that completely by their own actions.


You need to take a break. You're way over the top.


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> I believe I was talking about this man's wife. You know what? There's a lot of assuming going on here. What did you think I was doing by writing in a manner like that? Protecting his wife or trying not to further hurt a man that's already hurt and confused?


I think you were trying to imply something without coming right out and saying it.


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## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> I think you were trying to imply something without coming right out and saying it.


You're out of line man. Take a break. This thread triggered you badly.


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> You're out of line man. Take a break. This thread triggered you badly.


How self important of you. 

I spoke plainly and honestly, while you've pranced around trying to act devious and pompous. 

Out of line? Take a break? Great response. Who are you? You're instigating, then trying to legislate on a message board?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> How self important of you.
> 
> I spoke plainly and honestly, while you've pranced around trying to act devious and pompous.
> 
> Out of line? Take a break? Great response. Who are you? You're instigating, then trying to legislate on a message board?


Really? What are you accomplishing?


----------



## Forest

2ntnuf said:


> Really? What are you accomplishing?


Same as everyone else. Sharing observations and opinions. Without trying to be dictatorial or controlling in the process.

It is bedtime, though.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Forest said:


> Same as everyone else. Sharing observations and opinions. Without trying to be dictatorial or controlling in the process.
> 
> It is bedtime, though.


You think you achieved your goal?


----------



## fearfulheart

Quick update - I got saved by our close friend - my WW had yelled at me that she is going to call the cops on Tuesday while I was out of town. She was really about to follow through her threat but fortunately had called one of our close friend to baby sit the kids while she visited the lawyer/police. Our friend basically talked her out of the RO - I was not aware of this until the friend called me to tell me I was really close to being kicked out of my own house. I guess I have to get ready for that to happen anytime soon - packing essentials into luggage and storing it in my car just in case. Life has turned upside down within such a short time.


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## Q tip

Perhaps you could file for an RO. - first! Talk to a lawyer and see about options. She will do it eventually. Beat her to it.


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## Clay2013

I would go have a talk to the cops and explain to them the situation. That way if she ever does call you have a history and a timeline of the events. 

Clay


----------



## jim123

fearfulheart said:


> Quick update - I got saved by our close friend - my WW had yelled at me that she is going to call the cops on Tuesday while I was out of town. She was really about to follow through her threat but fortunately had called one of our close friend to baby sit the kids while she visited the lawyer/police. Our friend basically talked her out of the RO - I was not aware of this until the friend called me to tell me I was really close to being kicked out of my own house. I guess I have to get ready for that to happen anytime soon - packing essentials into luggage and storing it in my car just in case. Life has turned upside down within such a short time.


Get to an attorney now. Stay away until you do.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> Quick update - I got saved by our close friend - my WW had yelled at me that she is going to call the cops on Tuesday while I was out of town. She was really about to follow through her threat but fortunately had called one of our close friend to baby sit the kids while she visited the lawyer/police. Our friend basically talked her out of the RO - I was not aware of this until the friend called me to tell me I was really close to being kicked out of my own house. I guess I have to get ready for that to happen anytime soon - packing essentials into luggage and storing it in my car just in case. Life has turned upside down within such a short time.


Fearfullheart you have a nasty habit of ignoring the sound advice you receive on this forum. It's almost pathalogical with you. I'm wondering if you even bother to read the posts on this site.

Why the f*** are you packing luggage to live outside of your house? You've done nothing wrong, don't tuck tail and take whatever comes to you. Your life is not upside down, you refuse to take control of it and are slave to your wife's whims.

You have options dummy. Talk to the police and let them know exactly what is going on. Show them emails, texts, the VAR, anything you can to back up your case. Talk to a lawyer and have them advice you. If you actually have a sack then file a restraining order out against your wife first, kick her out.

This is becoming pathetic and infuriating. You're going to find yourself locked in a cell facing domestic charges for something you didn't do because instead of being a person of action and initiative you just bend over and take it. Which is exactly how prison is going to go for you.


----------



## arbitrator

Fearful: I've talked to you until I'm blue in the face! Get you a lawyer and just listen to him!

You're now holding a winning hand of legal cards. Just do him the simple courtesy of letting him play them for you! Ce pas?


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## phillybeffandswiss

What she did is EXACTLY, how it goes down. You can't defend yourself if you aren't around.


phillybeffandswiss said:


> Hire a lawyer and address this right now. Sorry, it can be a big deal. TROs and ROs are a dime a dozen that need little to no evidence. Once in place, they will follow you through your divorce.


I said this on Sunday and you were blindsided on Thursday. Now, you know it isn't wasn't a joke. The current climate makes it worse. In no way, shape or form am I minimizing abuse, but right now it is sign first and ask questions later like never before. A judge is going to look better handing out a wrong one, than if a spouse gets hurt or murdered.


----------



## fearfulheart

I am going to meet with a lawyer and discuss my options - even though WW is willing to stoop so low I really hate to get an RO on her right before the holidays when the kids will be home and will miss their mother. I know I am being totally foolish but I will do anything to see the smile on my kids face.


----------



## arbitrator

Great news, Fearful! And please minimize your contact with your STBXW. Write up a timeline for your attorney basically outlining all of her actions, being certain to include times and dates, any direct or potential witnesses inclusive of the OM, who does not enjoy immunity from testifying against your W as he ain't exactly married to her.

Get a court order to stay in your home and have your lawyer request temporary custody of the kids for as long as the proceedings are actively in progress.

Best of luck to you, my friend!


----------



## toonaive

" I really hate to get an RO on her right before the holidays "

Why not? Your WW is very willing to do it to you! Plus have you thrown our of your own house! Im sure that would be quite the spectacle! Bet your WW and POSOM would be laughing their asses off at that!

She is manipulating you, because you allow it. Heck! Everything bad happening to you right now, is because you allow it. Do you realize that are at serious risk of loosing anymore Christmas's with your children. Dont worry about this single one. Worry about future ones. 

You didnt start this, but you had better well finish it! Think about that for a bit. Fight back! Im really stunned at the valuable time that is being wasted here.


----------



## Q tip

Don't be that guy who a couple months from now says "you guys were right. I beta'd my way into a worse corner I never had to be in. I am so sorry I did not take the right action at the right time".

Be the guy who listens, considers and applies collective wisdom of others and plays chess not checkers.

Have a plan, execute. Be strong.


----------



## Forest

Depending on your state, you could get hit with either a restraining order or a protective order, or both. A restraining order is civil, with violations handled mostly financially as your case proceeds. A protective order is a criminal procedure, with you going to jail for violations.

A protective order would really knock you out of the picture, at least temporarily. All you wife has to do is go down to the courthouse, and fill out an affidavit alleging you have been physically threatening to her. A judge WILL nearly always issue a temporary protective order, and you would be forced out of you home until a later hearing to determine whether or not the order will be made permanent.

If you return to you home at any time while the order is in place, you go to jail. If you pop in, get out before the police arrive, the DAs often can still file the charge, and have a warrant issued.

Things have improved some, with judges at least trying to determine if the allegations are valid prior to issuing the permanent order, but as a male, the deck will be stacked against you due to the domestic violence issues we too often see. You can thank these idiot "tough guys" and moron athletes for some of that.


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> my WW had yelled at me that she is going to call the cops on Tuesday while I was out of town. She was really about to follow through her threat but fortunately had called one of our close friend to baby sit the kids while she visited the lawyer/police. Our friend basically talked her out of the RO.


Be sure to tell your lawyer about the above. They may advise you to contact the police first to tell them your side of the story.


----------



## Wazza

toonaive said:


> " I really hate to get an RO on her right before the holidays "
> 
> Why not? Your WW is very willing to do it to you! Plus have you thrown our of your own house! Im sure that would be quite the spectacle! Bet your WW and POSOM would be laughing their asses off at that!
> 
> She is manipulating you, because you allow it. Heck! Everything bad happening to you right now, is because you allow it. Do you realize that are at serious risk of loosing anymore Christmas's with your children. Dont worry about this single one. Worry about future ones.
> 
> You didnt start this, but you had better well finish it! Think about that for a bit. Fight back! Im really stunned at the valuable time that is being wasted here.


This needs to be put into perspective.

There is no doubt that divorce is unpleasant and people fight dirty. There is also no doubt that you and this woman will have an ongoing need to deal with each other at least until your kids become adults.

And that's before you consider the painful emotional dimension of what you are going through, and the sheer disbelief that the woman you loved could be like that.

The fact that your wife was looking at the RO tells you she will do things you didn't think she was capable of. It also tells you she is learning about dirty tricks she can play (otherwise how did she know what to do?) What other dirty tricks might she play in future?

The other side is, she didn't go through with the restraining order. I guess that might be good news. Not every person stoops to every dirty trick. So maybe there is a balance between protecting yourself and not inflaming things.

So you know you need legal advice, and you need to know the ramifications of decisions you are making.

Beyond that, some people on TAM focus on cutting the best financial deal they can in this sort of situation, while others focus on salvaging male pride. You have to decide what matters to you. 

The other thing is (and this truly sucks) you are not going to win. The courts are not going to decide everything your way. It sucks, and it's not fair, but it is what is going to happen. So you need to accept the truth of where life is heading, and make the best decisions you can. 

If you and your STBX can get on the same page, so much the better. It would be nice if some lawyer weren't playing to her greed and encouraging her to go for more than she is entitled to...whereby the only winners are the lawyers through their fees. Sadly, if she's dumb enough to throw everything away for a thirty-something who lives with Mommy, she's probably dumb enough to make other stupid decisions.

Seeing a lawyer is good. Having a clearly thought out plan, and executing it (including striking first where necessary to protect your rights, while at the same time retaining what you can of your ethics and dignity, and not unnecessarily inflaming things) is better.


----------



## TRy

fearfulheart said:


> Any remote possibility of an R was shattered last night when she came back from work to tell me that she talked with OM and realized he was only stepping back waiting for this M to end - he is not abandoning. WTF! so she wants a collaborative divorce that can be done within few weeks!!! How I wish I had known who this person's true color is I would not have to go through this agony.


 She begged you to give her another chance when she thought that the other man (OM) was dumping her and assured you that you were not Plan B. This should remove any doubt about your Plan B status with your wife. If the other man should dump her again, remember this if she asks for yet another chance.


----------



## Wazza

fearfulheart said:


> he wants a collaborative divorce that can be done within few weeks





fearfulheart said:


> I hit myself on the head as to why I would even bother initiating such a conversation - shame on me.. divorce it is and not any of those collaborative bu** s**t.
> since at fault (adultery) divorce process will take a long time and drain my money I might just petition for no-fault and walk away (more like run away) from this toxic poison that came into my life.


Divorce is going to be expensive. It is going to strip things away from you. 

What you need is QUALIFIED legal advice about your situation. If Collaborative divorce avoids a whole lot of legal expenses, lets you sort things out faster, and sees you better off with less toxicity in the relationship, is that not worth something?



toonaive said:


> She is manipulating you again with the "collaborative" divorce talk. She is trying to calm you down, and stall. Go hardcore. File! and do it first, do it now! Do not allow her to control the process. Continue to expose. Keep up the pressure, be the one to drive the divorce on your terms. Not hers or the POSOM! That is your strength position. Any more delay on your part gives them more time to gain from you. Make sure in the divorce complaint, you have the name and address of the POSOM. Not sure what state you are in. This may not have any teeth. But, sure would look embarrassing to be named in a divorce petition. His reaction to this, may tell you whether your adulterous wife is telling the truth or not.


Why expose? Why attack? Why seek embarrassment. Is going hardcore about getting the best divorce outcome, or showing how tough you are.

What sort of child support will you be up for? Spousal support? Who gets the house? Who gets the kids and how much access does the non-custodial parent get? These are big questions for your future. I would have such questions foremost in my mind going into this. 

She's screwing the guy, she's dumping you. Deal with it. I always think the violent reaction shows weakness, and tell her that she got to you. Disdain and quiet contempt are much more effective weapons if you want to go that route.


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## phillybeffandswiss

> TWTF! so she wants a collaborative divorce that can be done within few weeks!!!


Do it now while she is clouded and on her new man high.


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## lenzi

Wazza said:


> Why expose? Why attack? Why seek embarrassment. Is going hardcore about getting the best divorce outcome, or showing how tough you are.
> 
> . I always think the violent reaction shows weakness, and tell her that she got to you. Disdain and quiet contempt are much more effective weapons if you want to go that route.


Totally agree. The advice dished out by the majority on this board is to expose and there's no consideration for how this can make things more ugly than they already are and throw a wrench in what could be a much easier and faster and cheaper divorce.

I also never understood how exposing in some way helps salvage the betrayed spouse's pride, if anything it makes them look bitter, and weak because they have some sort of need to "get even".

Detach and walk away, and as you said, show disdain and quiet contempt. It's much more effective.


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## Roselyn

You asked: "Other Man wants to talk. Is it dangerous"? After reading your posts, yes it is dangerous. This other man is younger than you and still lives at home. He has nothing to lose. If you get into a fight, you can be charged with assault and battery and this will go into your record. This is dangerous for your present and future employment opportunities if not for your physical being. Do not engage this low-life.

Your wife is not worth your life. She is a garbage bag. You have done enough. Get a divorce lawyer and walk away from this life. Keep your dignity and integrity.


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## sinnister

She was pretending to be a decent and loving human being.

She slipped up and showed you she's nothing. 

Get rid of her.


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## fearfulheart

Just venting out my anger - today she told me I can have the kids for dinner but just like every other promise she broke this too - she told my kids they can help her cook a dish for which the recipe was provided by her OM (while I was gathering evidence I had found it in one of his emails to her).. now the kids want to eat what they cooked and I just let them eat what they helped cook. It is hard to get time in attorney's calendar during the holiday season so have to wait until beginning of the year to file the paper. I did read somewhere that Jan 7th is the day when most divorce papers are filed - I have just become part of the statistics


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## turnera

Expect the worst from her...and be pleasantly surprised when she doesn't stoop to that level.


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## Me Vietare

I found keeping a journal to be helpful. There were times that I couldn't remember, or actively forgot the nasty, sh!ty things the ex did. Looking back reinforced my resolve. 

We finally divorced. I bought out her interest in the house. She refused to move. Fortunately, my lawyer had included a clause saying that rent would be due in the amount of $350 a day after a certain date. I told her I'd sue her in small claims court as soon as it hit $3500. She moved and left trash and garbage shoulder high in some of the rooms. I took pictures and have them in an album. 

I'd stayed because of the kids. Filed after the last one left for college. Years later on a Father's Day, my son and daughter and I were talking. Each said "Dad I can't believe you stayed with mom after all she did." Kids know. 

Lessons of my story. Get good legal counsel. Carry a voice activated recorder for protection. Don't confront. Forgive because it will help you. Never forget. Live well.


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## fearfulheart

I went to a friend's place last night as I was feeling real lonely, ended up having a few drinks and that was not a good idea. I came home and WW started yelling about some s**t but instead of ignoring her (180 plan) I ended up getting into the fight - told her how she is going to regret what she is doing in few years and told her how she is ruining her own kid's future etc., It is so hard to let go..... I keep telling myself she is not worthy of me but there is always this lingering feeling that just doesn't go away.


----------



## Q tip

fearfulheart said:


> I went to a friend's place last night as I was feeling real lonely, ended up having a few drinks and that was not a good idea. I came home and WW started yelling about some s**t but instead of ignoring her (180 plan) I ended up getting into the fight - told her how she is going to regret what she is doing in few years and told her how she is ruining her own kid's future etc., It is so hard to let go..... I keep telling myself she is not worthy of me but there is always this lingering feeling that just doesn't go away.


This is chess, not checkers. Wise up.

it is not OMs first rodeo. He's advising her to RO... Kick you out so he can move on in and bang her on your bed.

Time to cut her lose. Make her somene else's problem. Mommas boy will fade.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Forest said:


> She's just blowing smoke at you.
> 
> What you describe is a civil matter (between two people) vs a criminal matter (in violation of a city/state statute). Generally, unless your communications are threatening or obscene, there's nothing the police will do.
> 
> Civilly, the main point is to tell only the truth. Truth is always a defense to slander, etc. You might point out to her that in some states, adultery is still illegal, and a felony.


In Oklahoma punishable by 5 yrs. Or $500.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fearfulheart

After 10 miserable days of following the 180 plan but still staying in the same house during the holidays my WW came to me this morning and asked for a JC - not to R but to have a closure, just wants to tell her story in front of a neutral third party and wants to hear my side of the story. I am really not sure what she is up to this time but I am planning to go along but not talk much, just listen.


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## turnera

I have no problem doing it in front of a third party - as long as they're not related to her somehow.


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## fearfulheart

turnera said:


> I have no problem doing it in front of a third party - as long as they're not related to her somehow.


I have told her that I will be picking the counselor and she is ok with it.


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## GusPolinski

fearfulheart said:


> After 10 miserable days of following the 180 plan but still staying in the same house during the holidays my WW came to me this morning and asked for a JC - not to R but to have a closure, just wants to tell her story in front of a neutral third party and wants to hear my side of the story. I am really not sure what she is up to this time but I am planning to go along but not talk much, just listen.





turnera said:


> I have no problem doing it in front of a third party - as long as they're not related to her somehow.





fearfulheart said:


> I have told her that I will be picking the counselor and she is ok with it.


Take a VAR.


----------



## Openminded

What she likely wants? A third party to agree with what she's done. I suggest you speak up if you are going to do that. Don't let her get away with blaming you if that's what she's after.


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## arbitrator

I agree that the only reason she wants this "audience" is kind of like discovery in a court trial. I'd go, but with a good VAR in hand-but I'd answer no direct questions of hers; but I'd sure as hell ask several of them of her!

Meantime, prior to attending, do clue your legal counsel into what's going on. He may want to attend himself, or there's the distinct possibility that he may not want you there at all!


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## happyman64

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is listen. 

Do that. 

The var and you picking the counselor are good advice. Take it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gabriel

fearfulheart said:


> After 10 miserable days of following the 180 plan but still staying in the same house during the holidays my WW came to me this morning and asked for a JC - not to R but to have a closure, just wants to tell her story in front of a neutral third party and wants to hear my side of the story. I am really not sure what she is up to this time but I am planning to go along but not talk much, just listen.


FWIW, I wouldn't say much. Let her vent or get whatever off her chest. I don't see why you saying anything would help you at all if she is planning on D anyway. What good would it do you?

Remember, receiving information = good. Giving information = bad.


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## GusPolinski

Gabriel said:


> FWIW, I wouldn't say much. Let her vent or get whatever off her chest. I don't see why you saying anything would help you at all if she is planning on D anyway. What good would it do you?
> 
> Remember, receiving information = good. Giving information = bad.


I'd listen and take notes... as in take a pen and paper along w/ the VAR. When it's your turn to speak, call bullsh*t on anything that doesn't quite pass the sniff test. There will likely be plenty of it.

Oh, and pop a fresh set of lithium batteries into that VAR just prior to hitting the record button, which you should do just before you step out of your vehicle; if you ride together, do it just before leaving for the appointment.


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## azteca1986

If it's not to R, then 'her side of the story' will be a whole bunch of justifications, where she'll blow up every little thing you've ever done and play the victim.

I suggest you go first and take ownership of your side of the marital issues and then state that her choice to have an affair is all on her - there were many better choices out there - but she chose to betray you, herself and blow up your family in the process, 'ruining her own kid's future, etc'

Frankly, I think it's self-serving on her part, with little to gain on yours. D will be closure enough.


----------



## convert

azteca1986 said:


> *If it's not to R, then 'her side of the story' will be a whole bunch of justifications, where she'll blow up every little thing you've ever done and play the victim.
> *
> I suggest you go first and take ownership of your side of the marital issues and then state that her choice to have an affair is all on her - there were many better choices out there - but she chose to betray you, herself and blow up your family in the process, 'ruining her own kid's future, etc'
> 
> *Frankly, I think it's self-serving on her part, with little to gain on yours. D will be closure enough.*


I agree with the Bolded parts above. I do not even think I would go


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## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> After 10 miserable days of following the 180 plan but still staying in the same house during the holidays my WW came to me this morning and asked for a JC - not to R but to have a closure, just wants to tell her story in front of a neutral third party and wants to hear my side of the story. I am really not sure what she is up to this time but I am planning to go along but not talk much, just listen.


I don't see how this is a good idea for you seeing as how you're still very raw and emotionally reactive. 

Just consider everything that she has done and put you through. She's still involved with her lover, even if only emotionally and you're at most her second/fall back option so that's the point of view she'll be coming from. Anything she says will most likely hurt and set you back. This, along with everything she has done is for her own selfish and self-serving reasons.

Do you really think that you can attend the meeting, sit, be calm and collected while she either lies, rewrites your marital history, gas lights or blames everything on you?

I know what you hope for, that this never happened and that she regains her senses, apologises for everything that she has put you through and is truly sorry and full of regret. How likely is this to happen?

Unless she literally comes begging for you to forgive her, apologises and takes responsibility for her affair and actions you shouldn't even consider having a conversation with her.

Again you're not in control of anything, she's the one deciding that you two should have a meeting and what happens in your life.

Stick to the 180, don't give up on it so easily and continue to have minumum contact with her.


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## Wazza

It all depends what you want. You need to do what you feel is right. 

But if she is still involved with the OM, and clear that she doesn't want to reconcile, then you are headed for divorce. 

My feeling is that, in that situation, what she says is (a) going to be crap and justification and (b) is probably going to be hurtful. 

I think my reaction to that would be to say...."You've been cheating on me and lying to me, so right now I feel I can't trust your word. You don't want to reconcile, and you don't think you can talk to me one on one. I don't see much point to the meeting." If SHE wants closure on HER decision to cheat.....I don't see why you are under any obligation to give it to her. 

I guess the other side is....maybe the conversation will open something up, and it might be hard for you to think that maybe if you had only met something could have been different. That's about your closure. Fair enough if you choose that.

But....and sorry, this will hurt....she made her opinions known when she chose the other guy. One day you will realise this was her failing, not yours, but right now I bet you don't see that. Do you really need to let her rub salt in the wounds? Does either of you have anything to say that has not already been said?

And if you are serious about the 180....well a total disinterest in her explanations is consistent with it. No heat, no fireworks. Just...."I am moving on from you. I feel like there is nothing more to say except to tie up the lose ends of what our lives will look like post marriage, and this doesn't look like a session to do that."

Tough decision. Whatever you chose, I hope it works out.


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## BobSimmons

You are a man being led by his wife.

At no point are you in control, only reacting to what she's doing.

This "closure" for her is only going to be an opening and pouring of salt on still raw wounds as she justifies what she has done.

If she wanted to say sorry I hurt you she would have said it..to your face.

You're not 180'ing, you continue to be led, you're not in control and OM is in her ear and virtually in your house.

At some point you have to let go, and let go of the crazy, because like a cycle, on another day something pops up, feeds in the cycle and the roundabout continues.

If a woman tried to have me arrested, was banging another guy and letting that same guy influence what was happening to my kids.. The last thing I'd want to hear were her "justifications" because frankly speaking, they wouldn't matter an iota.


----------



## warlock07

She will give you a justification of why she did what she did and how your mistreatment caused her act as such...


----------



## just got it 55

Every post on this page has merit

Hard to decide on which way to go

I don't envy you in this decision to go or not

But if you go and it turns into a b!tching session just walk .

55


----------



## Q tip

Have you read MMSLP yet?


----------



## workindad

Sounds like she is looking for someone to tell her, in front of you, that she was justified in what she did.

Understand, if the third party only hears from her, then her side is all that is represented, silence can be mistaken as concurrence.


----------



## Wazza

workindad said:


> Sounds like she is looking for someone to tell her, in front of you, that she was justified in what she did.
> 
> Understand, if the third party only hears from her, then her side is all that is represented, silence can be mistaken as concurrence.


Who cares what some random stranger thinks? If the intent of the meeting is some sort of de facto trial, I wouldn't do it.

There can be problems in the marriage, There can be events leading up to the infidelity which explain it, and help decide whether there can be a future with someone who has cheated on you. But nothing can make it right. More forgivable maybe, but not right.

A meeting that presupposes she may have been right to cheat is based on a flawed premise.


----------



## convert

If I did any counseling I would do Individual counseling. The joint counseling I believe would be a waste of money since she does not want to R and would just set you back with any progress you have made


----------



## fearfulheart

Q tip said:


> Have you read MMSLP yet?


Yes - some chapters are totally useless at this time (since we are no where near sleeping in the same room and sex is no existent) but now I understand the need to build on my Alpha traits and working on it - got gym membership with personal trainer and she is making me burn all the fats out of my system.


----------



## fearfulheart

We have our first JC session scheduled for tomorrow, not sure what to expect but will follow the advise on this forum and just listen for the most part except to tell her there is no excuse for her infidelity which has hurt our kids and this marriage the most. 

I don't expect any positive outcome from the JC but I can at least check the box on the divorce filing that I did attempt MC.


----------



## fearfulheart

fearfulheart said:


> We have our first JC session scheduled for tomorrow, not sure what to expect but will follow the advise on this forum and just listen for the most part except to tell her there is no excuse for her infidelity which has hurt our kids and this marriage the most.
> 
> I don't expect any positive outcome from the JC but I can at least check the box on the divorce filing that I did attempt MC.


The MC was such a waste of time and money. WW came in with an agenda to justify all her actions blaming it on our marriage. The counselor was fair and told her to first deal with her infidelity and try to re-build trust. She flat out refused and literally stormed out of the session. 
Unfortunately I ended up meeting a friend for drinks, had one too many and did an abort turn on 180 and yelled at her last night.


----------



## jim123

fearfulheart said:


> The MC was such a waste of time and money. WW came in with an agenda to justify all her actions blaming it on our marriage. The counselor was fair and told her to first deal with her infidelity and try to re-build trust. She flat out refused and literally stormed out of the session.
> Unfortunately I ended up meeting a friend for drinks, had one too many and did an abort turn on 180 and yelled at her last night.


Glad it went well.

You know where you stand. Start working on you and move forward.


----------



## Dogbert

Unremorseful cheating wife at marriage counseling is always a waste of time and money.


----------



## G.J.

Luke the Dark side calls, go to the Dark side


----------



## Dogbert

G.J. said:


> Luke the Dark side calls, go to the Dark side


Nope. Stubbed my toe and fell on my a$$ when I did.


----------



## Jasel

You're carrying a recorder when dealing with her like we advised I hope?


----------



## fearfulheart

Another roller coaster week - day after the MC session failed and we both agreed to go through divorce mediation, WW comes to me and cries out loud saying she wants to stay in the marriage mainly for the kids. She is willing to send a NC to OM and be willing to be under my microscope when dealing with OM since they still work at the same place. I told her that I can't trust her words anymore so she has to show action - she did send an email to OM in front of me saying they have to stop the relationship and she wants to work on the family. She wants to find another counselor to seriously work on MC and apologized a few hundred times. I am not sure if this time it is a real remorse or just another rebound because OM did or said something. How can I tell if she is truly is remorseful and really wants to reconcile - i hate to push her away if it is real and she is serious as it will be the best outcome for the kids. At the same time I can't go through this roller coaster emotions any longer.


----------



## farsidejunky

Did she say why she wanted a different counselor?

Maybe this one held her feet to the fire a little more than she cared for?

I would not allow her to set ANY of the conditions of your reconciliation at this point.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> Another roller coaster week - day after the MC session failed and we both agreed to go through divorce mediation, WW comes to me and cries out loud saying she wants to stay in the marriage mainly for the kids. She is willing to send a NC to OM and be willing to be under my microscope when dealing with OM since they still work at the same place. I told her that I can't trust her words anymore so she has to show action - she did send an email to OM in front of me saying they have to stop the relationship and she wants to work on the family. She wants to find another counselor to seriously work on MC and apologized a few hundred times. I am not sure if this time it is a real remorse or just another rebound because OM did or said something. How can I tell if she is truly is remorseful and really wants to reconcile - i hate to push her away if it is real and she is serious as it will be the best outcome for the kids. At the same time I can't go through this roller coaster emotions any longer.


You're still on her hook after everything that you've gone through with her, all it took were a few tears, apologies, a "No Contact" email to the OM who it appears wasn't that invested in their affair and selective amnesia on your part. I guess when someone's treated you badly long enough anything that isn't them s******* on you seems like flowers and sunshine.

I seriously doubt that hers is anywhere near true remorse. The OM probably wised up and said "F*** this, not worth it" or he knows to expect a No Contact email and "play along".


----------



## jelly_bean

fearfulheart said:


> Another roller coaster week - day after the MC session failed and we both agreed to go through divorce mediation, WW comes to me and cries out loud saying she wants to stay in the marriage mainly for the kids. She is willing to send a NC to OM and be willing to be under my microscope when dealing with OM since they still work at the same place. I told her that I can't trust her words anymore so she has to show action - she did send an email to OM in front of me saying they have to stop the relationship and she wants to work on the family. She wants to find another counselor to seriously work on MC and apologized a few hundred times. I am not sure if this time it is a real remorse or just another rebound because OM did or said something. How can I tell if she is truly is remorseful and really wants to reconcile - i hate to push her away if it is real and she is serious as it will be the best outcome for the kids. At the same time I can't go through this roller coaster emotions any longer.


I have been on the exact same rollercoaster since this summer. My ex has no remorse, even today he just told me that if I had gone to IC and fixed myself he would not have cheated. I have 3 kids as well. Let me tell you if you think staying with a spouse that has no remorse just for the kids it is a BIG mistake. You will fill up resentment. You will always be waiting for her to be accountable for her actions and she just will not do this. 

Think about what you truly need to move forward. Put YOUR needs first. I would assume you need to feel like she is truly remorseful, that she is choosing you over him (not just the kids), and that she will show you everyday how sorry she is and how she wants to work and rebuilding your love and trust.

Now think about your spouse....does this sound like her? Don't weigh the kids into the equation yet just focus on what you need in a healthy relationship. It is very hard to do as a parent but it is important for your children that you think of yourself at this point.

Now if you feel she can do the things above then by all means go for it but think with your gut and head not your heart or the guilt.


----------



## Suspecting2014

She needs to get another job before try MC. No contact is a must to R.

She changes her mind everyday. Tell her that you will consider R after she proves with her actions that she really wants it.

Besides give her to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful" by Linda J. Macdonald. You can google it to get a PDF.

The idea is to give her a look of what she must do if want to R.

If she leaves her job and after reading the boom she keeps her offer to R, then you can give it a chance.

Call OM maybe she got dumped and yo are plan B.


----------



## Suspecting2014

From other angle, even if she does all the rigth things and is remors maybe you cant forgive her. R is not for everyone.

So dont make any promises but to try


----------



## turnera

farsidejunky said:


> Did she say why she wanted a different counselor?
> 
> Maybe this one held her feet to the fire a little more than she cared for?
> 
> I would not allow her to set ANY of the conditions of your reconciliation at this point.


fearful, this is KEY. She CANNOT set ANY conditions at this point. She has to know you're ready to pull the plug at any time. And if she balks at anything, tell her to get the hell out. It's the ONLY thing I've seen work on wayward women - for the man to be giving her ONE CHANCE ONLY. 

And IIWY, I would INSIST on going back the same counselor. The first thing she needs is to learn humility - and that means going back to the same counselor, tail between her legs. Please trust me on this.

Now as for the rest of it, you should NOW be requiring:
for her to have a new job within 6 months or you walk
the passwords to all her electronics
for her to hand over her electronics every time you ask, without grumbling
to attend MC for as long as you request it
for her to attend IC with you able to check in now and then to see if she's even talking about why she cheated
You may want to include her taking a polygraph


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Taking her back so willingly and readily on your part is a huge mistake which you'll regret.

The conditions that she has set for your "reconciliation" require minimum effort and won't be too much of an inconvenience to her. Basically she set those that she's willing to do thereby maintaining her handling of you and giving you a false sense of control.

Tell her that you're still moving forward with the divorce and mean it. You could always change your mind later but if she is serious about the marriage then she will make more of an effort than saying a few apologies, typing an email and looking for a counsellor that'll condone her behaviour and agree with her.



farsidejunky said:


> Did she say why she wanted a different counselor?
> Maybe this one held her feet to the fire a little more than she cared for?





turnera said:


> I would INSIST on going back the same counselor. The first thing she needs is to learn humility - and that means going back to the same counselor, tail between her legs


:iagree:

If you're still in denial or delusional enough to try reconciliation at this point and so embarrassingly quickly then I'd stick with the counsellor you two saw earlier, but really dude, wake up.

Stop this weak, indecisive behaviour, file for divorce and do The *180*. If you're thorough enough with it you'll be prepared to move on if it comes to that and actually have a better chance of her respecting and wanting you, experiencing true remorse and woring hard to fix that which she has destroed

She has dominated you through this entire ordeal and is still in control, all you ever do is react to her whims.

This nonsense of you living according to what she decides is painful to be audience to. I am done.


----------



## G.J.

turnera said:


> fearful, this is KEY. *She CANNOT set ANY conditions at this point.* She has to know you're ready to pull the plug at any time. And if she balks at anything, tell her to get the hell out. It's the ONLY thing I've seen work on wayward women - for the man to be giving her *ONE CHANCE ONLY.*
> 
> And IIWY, I would INSIST on going back the same counselor. The first thing she needs is to learn humility - and that means going back to the same counselor, tail between her legs. Please trust me on this.
> 
> Now as for the rest of it, you should NOW be requiring:
> for her to have a new job within 6 months or you walk
> the passwords to all her electronics
> for her to hand over her electronics every time you ask, without grumbling
> to attend MC for as long as you request it
> for her to attend IC with you able to check in now and then to see if she's even talking about why she cheated
> You may want to include her taking a polygraph


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

strongly agree with all this except
You may want to include her taking a polygraph

*I would insist*


----------



## Dogbert

Cheer up babe. It's only paperwork. You can still be my live- in nanny and unpaid french maid outfit wearing mama. Now go get me a beer.


----------



## Q tip

Have you read MMSLP.

She's not done with you yet. That's all. Nothing will change in the long run. She's made no improvements, zero actions, *shes just trying to change you*. She's not quit, OMs still there. You're dreaming her dream again. Don't fall for it.

Question. Are you a man or a doormat.

Even the playing field a bit. D then start dating hot younger babes. You won't look back. Why bother with a non-remorseful cheater. Cheaters are liars. Guess what she is...


----------



## badmemory

fearfulheart said:


> WW comes to me and cries out loud saying she wants to stay in the marriage *mainly for the kids.*


That is all you should need to hear. If that doesn't convince you she is "settling" and has no real remorse in her heart; I don't know what will. Apparently not the other dozen things she has demonstrated to show she's not remorseful.

Her promising no contact while she still works with the OM is laughable. But my guess is that if you ask her if she is willing to quit her job, she'd be the one laughing - at you for asking.

At the very least, you give her a deadline to do it. My opinion is no more than 30 days.

Go ahead OP. Ask her if she's willing. Let us know what she tells you.


----------



## fearfulheart

She was willing to look for a new job, willing to share her phone/email/text messages etc., and even go back to the original MC. She did tell me that her feelings towards OM is not going to die immediately but over time she will remove him from her heart - but she will not have any personal contact or communication with him. Unfortunately I am out of town on week days and only back on weekends so hard to verify any of her promises or actions. I am still going to let my lawyer get the paper work ready but not file yet.


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> She was willing to look for a new job, willing to share her phone/email/text messages etc., and even go back to the original MC. She did tell me that her feelings towards OM is not going to die immediately but over time she will remove him from her heart - but she will not have any personal contact or communication with him. Unfortunately I am out of town on week days and only back on weekends so hard to verify any of her promises or actions. I am still going to let my lawyer get the paper work ready but not file yet.


Move ahead with D as it can be stopped at any time explain this to her as any slip up and that's it

She needs the pressure on her

You can install VARs in the house and take all precsations while not there

Also set up camera surveillance so you can log in at night and see her in bed etc from laptop..its not costly

if she ever finds them so what...you have the right for what she has put you through


----------



## turnera

I agree. Install a keylogger on her computer (do not tell her). If you can swing cameras, by all means do it. Make sure there's a GPS tracker on her phone so she is where she says she is. The first few months will be key if she's sincere or not. And keep the divorce papers moving forward - DO let her know that.


----------



## fearfulheart

After everything she has done to me the only right thing to do for myself is D and move on. My foolish heart doesn't want to accept it - she was the only person I feel in love with and married, we had a great times together in the past, the kids are so young and will have to go through a tough time, I am in my 40's out of shape with two kids to take care of - will I find someone or will I just end up being single for the rest of my life, we just bought a house that we can't afford so have to sell and settle for a much smaller one, coming from an extremely conservative society nobody in my family has ever gone through a divorce...so many random thoughts just keep bombarding me constantly. I just need the courage to do the right thing and hope for the best....


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> After everything she has done to me the only right thing to do for myself is D and move on. My foolish heart doesn't want to accept it - she was the only person I feel in love with and married, we had a great times together in the past, the kids are so young and will have to go through a tough time, I am in my 40's out of shape with two kids to take care of - will I find someone or will I just end up being single for the rest of my life, we just bought a house that we can't afford so have to sell and settle for a much smaller one, coming from an extremely conservative society nobody in my family has ever gone through a divorce...so many random thoughts just keep bombarding me constantly. I just need the courage to do the right thing and hope for the best....


End of the day your in the situation and all we have are your thoughts at the time you type

So *you will* have to make the decision BUT by doing a R for the time being will give 
you a breather and also give you time to know exactly what you want

At the present you don't know for sure when reading these posts, not when you say things like


> I just need the courage to do the right thing and *hope for the best*....


Some may say hey you carn't go into a R with that attitude...well I think you can as the BS *as long as she doesn't.*
Yes this time *you will be using her* as you haven't made up your mind fully and you deserve any thing that will help 
you decide..also still using the 180 although may be slightly modified for this scenario will help you eventually

So carry on with the D and tell her she's on trial
And keep the pressure on, you'll know soon enough where her mind is


----------



## turnera

You're in no hurry. Don't make any decisions yet. Let her give it a try. DO put in the diligence with the keylogger and GPS etc so you can see if she's telling the truth. And if she isn't telling the truth, if she does still cheat, then move on. Give her the one chance and see if she can redeem herself.

Oh, and I'll add one thing. YOU need to make a visit to their office and have a chat with this guy. Let him know that you will be monitoring and if you see ONE slip-up from him, the very first thing you'll be doing is placing a call to his boss. The second thing will be a call to your lawyer. And then leave.

Benefit: your wife seeing you do this will make YOU look stronger and she'll probably wonder why she ever looked anywhere else. Women must admire their man. Their man MUST be strong. You're now starting to take steps to remind her that you're strong.

And by the way, why are you out of shape?


----------



## G.J.

OH nearly forgot

*she has to find new job A.S.A.P.*


----------



## Iver

_ I am in my 40's out of shape with two kids to take care of..._

This is something you have control of. It's very easy to get in shape now, much more so than in the past.

Diet is 80% of it. Try Paleo - it's easy to do and the food is real. "Mark's Daily Apple" is a good start

There are lots of online workouts you can stream these days if getting to a gym is too tough. 

10 minutes a day - a short run or a quick workout combined with a correct eating plan will make a huge difference.


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> The MC was such a waste of time and money. WW came in with an agenda to justify all her actions blaming it on our marriage.


She told you she was going to do this. 



fearfulheart said:


> My WW came to me this morning and asked for a JC - not to R but to have a closure, just wants to tell her story in front of a neutral third party and wants to hear my side of the story.


----------



## Dogbert

*In a relationship or not, exercise and eating healthy are non negotiable.*

P.S. Chicks will start checking out your a$$ets.


----------



## warlock07

fearfulheart said:


> Another roller coaster week - day after the MC session failed and we both agreed to go through divorce mediation, WW comes to me and cries out loud saying she wants to stay in the marriage mainly for the kids. She is willing to send a NC to OM and be willing to be under my microscope when dealing with OM since they still work at the same place. I told her that I can't trust her words anymore so she has to show action - she did send an email to OM in front of me saying they have to stop the relationship and she wants to work on the family. She wants to find another counselor to seriously work on MC and apologized a few hundred times. I am not sure if this time it is a real remorse or just another rebound because OM did or said something. How can I tell if she is truly is remorseful and really wants to reconcile - i hate to push her away if it is real and she is serious as it will be the best outcome for the kids. At the same time I can't go through this roller coaster emotions any longer.



Does it really matter if she was remorseful ? For the kids, not you. Read the part a few times. Now imagine the rest of your life.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Fearful Heart,

Did you notice that when you got much serious about consequences she 
started getting out the fog? When expose OM she could realize what a 
peace of **** he was. That is why going nuk is a must when try to R.

In my opinion you should have a plan and stick to it.

You should try a 3/6 months trial, this is for you to know if you are 
going to be able to R not for her. At this point there is no room for 
another single mistake on her end.
In this 3/6 months must happen these:

She needs understands the damage she has done. Cheaters minimize the 
heating as they cant accept to be a person capable of such destruction, 
even if you have and Revenge Affair, as she caused it wont fully 
understand the pain and the destruction. Besides it will help her 
totally get out the fog.

She must be doing or willing to do everything needed to fix the 
marriage and heal you, this is going to be one of the hardest things she 
may experience. This is why a new job and no contact is a must as she 
may feel weak to reach OM again.

She apology to everyone, you, your family, hers, kids, etc. Everyone 
that has witnessed how she humiliated you with her acctions and afected 
by her Affair.

She must provide a detailed timeline with all you need.

Toxic friends, the ones that know or enable the affair, must be gone 
for good. Hers and yours.




To even consider this plan she needs to get another job and give you 
full transparency. Be careful as burning phones, work email, new FB 
account are easy to hide.

Full disclosure about everything, there is no room for any more TT.

We are not talking about talking, we are talking about doing. She 
already has said a lot of lies and have changed her mind in a blink.

Two more things:

DO IT FOR YOU, NOT FOR THE KIDS! .They deserve a healthy home with mom 
and dad but also deserve to learn to have a healthy relationship when 
they grow up. By accepting her back after all you are teaching them that 
to cheat and be cheated on is OK, that be unhappy is Ok as well and 
worse that be humiliated and lied to is a behavior they must be OK in 
their future relations.

R IS NOT A MUST!, You can file for D anytime if you feel like, dont 
matter if has been 1 month or 1 year, even if she is doing and has done 
everything right. Sometime there are things that can be unbroken.


----------



## Wazza

fearfulheart said:


> After everything she has done to me the only right thing to do for myself is D and move on. My foolish heart doesn't want to accept it - she was the only person I feel in love with and married, we had a great times together in the past, the kids are so young and will have to go through a tough time, I am in my 40's out of shape with two kids to take care of - will I find someone or will I just end up being single for the rest of my life, we just bought a house that we can't afford so have to sell and settle for a much smaller one, coming from an extremely conservative society nobody in my family has ever gone through a divorce...so many random thoughts just keep bombarding me constantly. I just need the courage to do the right thing and hope for the best....


It hurts, really hurts....it's an awful roller coaster, and it's just beginning. 

Look, just take your time. You have hurt and anger to process, but eventually what you want will become clearer.

Your wife has been crazy. It's obscene what she's done. The questions is, is this an out of character brain spasm on her part, or has she just revealed her true self to you. And it takes a while to begin to get a feel for that.

Post your feelings here. Let it out.


----------



## fearfulheart

I will be home tomorrow - I managed to not call or text or email her this entire week. Spoke to the kids while she was at work. She never called or texted me either, I still had a tiny bit of hope that she will call one day to tell me OM met with her about the NC email - I am sure he would have - since she has not called she is just rug sweeping and I can't have that anymore. I will not confront her tomorrow, if she wants to share anything I will take that as a positive step otherwise go with D plan.


----------



## fearfulheart

Why do I keep falling for her lies and deceit every single time - over the weekend realized she was not even remotely remorseful and was just trying to calm me down by faking it so I don't start exposing her further. Now she wants D and "it has nothing to do with him". I spent a lot of time with the kids over the weekend and that made me feel better. Signed up for personal trainer at the gym to get myself in shape. Meeting with lawyer later today to initiate the paperwork.. i will keep this thread as my journal to document my progression to a new and better life without WS.


----------



## tom67

Sorry that happened stay strong my man.


----------



## turnera

Who else are you going to expose to?


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> Why do I keep falling for her lies and deceit every single time





fearfulheart said:


> she was not even remotely remorseful and was just trying to calm me down by faking it so I don't start exposing her further


Fearfulheart, this has been pointed out to you numerous times on this thread. The advice here, though harsh at times, aims to help you. There are many here who have experienced what you're going through. You might find yourself in a position where your experiences will help someone else.



fearfulheart said:


> Signed up for personal trainer at the gym to get myself in shape. Meeting with lawyer later today to initiate the paperwork


FINALLY!!!

It is important that you follow through and don't let your wife stall or set you back, no longer shall you play the gullible fool. Keep the commincation between you two limited to texts and messages. Your conversations should only be concerned with either finances, household matters or your children and never initiated by you necessary.

Start building a life for yourself, spend time with your friends and family, socialize, exercise and engage in a hobby. You'll find yourself in a much better, happier place once you're able to mov on from her.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

fearfulheart said:


> Why do I keep falling for her lies and deceit every single time - over the weekend realized she was not even remotely remorseful and was just trying to calm me down by faking it so I don't start exposing her further. Now she wants D and "it has nothing to do with him". I spent a lot of time with the kids over the weekend and that made me feel better. Signed up for personal trainer at the gym to get myself in shape. Meeting with lawyer later today to initiate the paperwork.. i will keep this thread as my journal to document my progression to a new and better life without WS.




Untill she come again crying for R.


----------



## Q tip

Cheaters are liars. She knows you and how to manipulate you. You are getting out of your own fog. Great. Now you'll see her for what she is. A POS. 

She does not want exposure because cheaters HATE the light of truth. This is a powerful tool. Use it. Shine the light of truth BRIGHTLY on her and OM. Family, friends. OM on Cheaterville.com too - and use their email facility to let folks know too. Do it generically so they can't tie it back to you.

Read up on a book - Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. Take the red pill.

Work out with free weights. Fastest way I know to truly melt fat away and build muscle. No other way. Go 3 or 4 times a week. Just focus on basics. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, chin ups, rowing. Chin ups develop the "pretty" muscles. Use enough weights so you fail at 10-12 reps. Do 3 sets. Add weight as you can do 12 with less effort. Dumbbells on bench and curls, triceps too. Same with chin-ups. Do them until you fail. 3 sets.

You'll see results inside 3 months. Take a whey protein shake within an hour of the workout. Diet. No more junk food. No white food. Bread, rice, noodles, sugar. Nothing white.

You can drop a max of 10 pounds of fat per month this way. But you'll build muscle at the same time. So don't sweat the scale at home. You don't have to like it, you just gotta do it. Results are what matters.

It's a huge mental boost for a guy. Dropping weight after being a couch potato. You'll feel refreshed and get noticed by the ladies. Guaranteed. I mean, you notice shapely ladies. Well, duh! They notice guys who look good too!


----------



## ButtPunch

OP

I am glad you are starting to see clearly now.


----------



## fearfulheart

Q tip said:


> Cheaters are liars. She knows you and how to manipulate you. You are getting out of your own fog. Great. Now you'll see her for what she is. A POS.
> 
> She does not want exposure because cheaters HATE the light of truth. This is a powerful tool. Use it. Shine the light of truth BRIGHTLY on her and OM. Family, friends. OM on Cheaterville.com too - and use their email facility to let folks know too. Do it generically so they can't tie it back to you.
> 
> Read up on a book - Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. Take the red pill.
> 
> Work out with free weights. Fastest way I know to truly melt fat away and build muscle. No other way. Go 3 or 4 times a week. Just focus on basics. Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, chin ups, rowing. Chin ups develop the "pretty" muscles. Use enough weights so you fail at 10-12 reps. Do 3 sets. Add weight as you can do 12 with less effort. Dumbbells on bench and curls, triceps too. Same with chin-ups. Do them until you fail. 3 sets.
> 
> You'll see results inside 3 months. Take a whey protein shake within an hour of the workout. Diet. No more junk food. No white food. Bread, rice, noodles, sugar. Nothing white.
> 
> You can drop a max of 10 pounds of fat per month this way. But you'll build muscle at the same time. So don't sweat the scale at home. You don't have to like it, you just gotta do it. Results are what matters.
> 
> It's a huge mental boost for a guy. Dropping weight after being a couch potato. You'll feel refreshed and get noticed by the ladies. Guaranteed. I mean, you notice shapely ladies. Well, duh! They notice guys who look good too!


I will try to follow your advice and get in better shape! I have never lifted weights before and according to the personal trainer my core is really weak so have to work on it before I can start lifting weights.


----------



## happyman64

Get in shape. Strengthen your core. Then strengthen your heart to be done with your WW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

Just start lifting. Free weights will balance you. Sure, sit-ups and leg lifts too.

Just start light. Even a barbell with no weight is still 20-30 pounds. Some trainers will milk money from you. There are some great websites out there that give all that knowledge out for free. Short videos for each muscle group.

Maybe talk to another trainer too. Don't get suckered by some of these folks.


----------



## BashfulB

FH I am glad you are moving to D. 

You should file yourself. Take control of it, don't let her control it. Ask for a lot up front then haggle down. 

Your WW is not remorseful and most likely checked out on you long ago, without telling you, like they usually do. They want a soft pad to land on with a new OM before they even let the BS know about their dissatisfaction , so in a sense she is probably a year or two years ahead of you in the detachment phase. 

Do the 180 in earnest and do everything through your lawyer. Keep your communications to her solely about the kids and nothing else. Let her go. Let her have what she thinks will make her happy. Years down the road she will most likely regret her decision.


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> Why do I keep falling for her lies and deceit every single time - over the weekend realized she was not even remotely remorseful and was just trying to calm me down by faking it so I don't start exposing her further. Now she wants D and "it has nothing to do with him". I spent a lot of time with the kids over the weekend and that made me feel better. Signed up for personal trainer at the gym to get myself in shape. Meeting with lawyer later today to initiate the paperwork.. i will keep this thread as my journal to document my progression to a new and better life without WS.


fearfulheart what happened over the weekend for you to finally realize her true intentions


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Fearful, I know that this has been extremely hard for you and I am sorry for the pain that you have gone and are going through.

You are capable of more than you're aware and you are on your way to a better, healthier and happier life.

I truly believe that with dedication to the path that you're on that you'll be more than alright and life will be f****** awesome.

Keep a positive and you have my best wishes:smthumbup:!!


----------



## Forest

Just to chime in with the others, I think the gym is a good choice. Be patient, and keep a little notebook on your progress. In a few weeks you'll see that you are getting better, and more comfortable. You'll feel that firmness in the muscles. In a few months, you'll see the difference in the mirror, and feel more confident.

Stick it out, all part of the plan. Also, the first few weeks you may feel so tired after lifting you have to have a little nap. Best thing in the world.


----------



## Vulcan2013

Check out stronglifts 5x5. Basic program is free. You start with an empty bar, increasing gradually. Only a few basic lifts, and you will be surprised how fast you get strong. 

Core - planks. Make sure your trainer can coach you on form - that's the key to building strength without getting hurt.


----------



## hosea77

Get a road bike and start riding. I'm 56 and started about a year ago. It's the first time I've gotten regular aerobic exercise since my 20's. Beats anything I've tried and easy on the old knees etc. Hit the weights also, but the bike will burn off the weight fast if you ride hard. After you ride a couple of months building up distance, it's easy to ride for several hours and is way easier on your joints than running. Plus it's a great activity to divert your mind with the scenery and take out your frustrations by grinding on the pedals harder to channel the anger. As your endurance builds up, it feels great to make progress on speed and distance. Another plus is there are cycling clubs you can socialize with. If you're not into that, at least try to go attempt one of the century (100 mile) rides later. I used one of those as a training goal and completed my first one 9 months after I started riding. Great mind diversion and fun hobby, plus chicks dig the legs


----------



## Q tip

Working out and getting in tip top shape is an excellent way to prepare for the rest of your life.

After the D and recovery, you'll start dating hotter, younger babes. You'll have tons of experience and will be Da Man!


----------



## Indy

fearfulheart said:


> I will try to follow your advice and get in better shape! I have never lifted weights before and according to the personal trainer my core is really weak so have to work on it before I can start lifting weights.


Study some martial arts, too. MMA, Brazilian Jujitsu, something physical. Not for violence purposes or revenge but you'll benefit from the increased confidence level of being able to defend yourself. Plus, there are lots of cool guys to hang out with in those classes. They're understanding and supportive and will build you up and you can do the same for them. Nice looking women in some of them, too.


----------



## fearfulheart

G.J. said:


> fearfulheart what happened over the weekend for you to finally realize her true intentions


When she told me she still wants a divorce but is truly sorry for causing such a trauma and will help me as a friend to heal from it.


----------



## MattMatt

fearfulheart said:


> When she told me she still wants a divorce but is truly sorry for causing such a trauma and will help me as a friend to heal from it.


How jolly decent of her!


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> When she told me she still wants a divorce but is truly sorry for causing such a trauma and will help me as a friend to heal from it.


:gun:

Yep sorry is when you bump into some one, that'll work


----------



## Iver

I know who I consider friends in my life and they sure don't treat me like that. 

I'd let her know you have standards for someone to be your friend and she falls far short.

(It's a common fantasy of WAW's that you'll all be chums after the divorce and you'll be happily on call for plumbing leaks in the middle of the night or house sitting when she's off with the OM.)


----------



## Healer

fearfulheart said:


> When she told me she still wants a divorce but is truly sorry for causing such a trauma and will help me as a friend to heal from it.


Pfft. You do NOT need a "friend" like that.


----------



## Dogbert

Healer said:


> Pfft. You do NOT need a "friend" like that.


Yeah, with "friends" like her who needs enemas, I mean enemies.


----------



## workindad

"friends" who cause the kind of pain that she has caused you... you are better off without.

Excise the cancer. Move quickly and maybe you can get a good d settlement.


----------



## Suspecting2014

fearfulheart said:


> When she told me she still wants a divorce but is truly sorry for causing such a trauma and will help me as a friend to heal from it.


Sounds like *she has **a lot of guilt*, well is her f.. problem, not yours!

IMO you should use it to:


Get a faster, better and cheaper D; and

Make her focus her guilt on your children.

Tell her that if she really want to help you heal,* she needs to vanish from your life *( you really need to do 180 and detach) ask her to don't call you or contact you unless it's about kids or D matters. I bet once you show her by your actions, not just by telling her, that you are moving on she will try to R...The problem is that the second you say "lets do it" in a blink of an eye she will think "WTF, no no no no , you are such a nice, predictable, and consistent Plan B, why am I going to make you a Plan A?", and then start all over again.

Make her clear that you are not friends and that you are not going to be, that healing is something she cant help and her guilt is on her, and her alone, to manage. (What she doesnt know at this moment is that the Affairs carry consequences and reach so many places for a long time! she will realize it on tis own time).

Tell her that tha only thing she can do is try to be a great mother and make coparenting easy for the kids, and to work over D matters to make it , fast and not that expensive (unless you want to sign under adultery and OM name on it because you are getting something like, less CS, no alimony, etc. otherwise is a waste of time and money).

You must realize that:

She is gone, and she will never come back, that the sad joke that replaced you wife does not worth it.

You need to be civil and amicable with her because she is your kids mom, and always will be.

You need to detach and move on, for you and the most important for your kids.

*Work on you, your kids deserve at least one good parent!*


----------



## fearfulheart

Suspecting2014 said:


> Sounds like *she has **a lot of guilt*, well is her f.. problem, not yours!
> 
> IMO you should use it to:
> 
> 
> Get a faster, better and cheaper D; and
> 
> Make her focus her guilt on your children.
> 
> Tell her that if she really want to help you heal,* she needs to vanish from your life *( you really need to do 180 and detach) ask her to don't call you or contact you unless it's about kids or D matters. I bet once you show her by your actions, not just by telling her, that you are moving on she will try to R...The problem is that the second you say "lets do it" in a blink of an eye she will think "WTF, no no no no , you are such a nice, predictable, and consistent Plan B, why am I going to make you a Plan A?", and then start all over again.
> 
> Make her clear that you are not friends and that you are not going to be, that healing is something she cant help and her guilt is on her, and her alone, to manage. (What she doesnt know at this moment is that the Affairs carry consequences and reach so many places for a long time! she will realize it on tis own time).
> 
> Tell her that tha only thing she can do is try to be a great mother and make coparenting easy for the kids, and to work over D matters to make it , fast and not that expensive (unless you want to sign under adultery and OM name on it because you are getting something like, less CS, no alimony, etc. otherwise is a waste of time and money).
> 
> You must realize that:
> 
> She is gone, and she will never come back, that the sad joke that replaced you wife does not worth it.
> 
> You need to be civil and amicable with her because she is your kids mom, and always will be.
> 
> You need to detach and move on, for you and the most important for your kids.
> 
> *Work on you, your kids deserve at least one good parent!*


Thanks for the advice. I have been trying really hard to be civil with her but every once in a while when she acts so crazy I can't control myself and start yelling and arguing. She refuses to move out and I don't want to move out until my lawyer says it is ok to do so - has been really hard to stay under same roof but battle through lawyers.


----------



## turnera

If I were in that situation, I would make it my mission to make her as miserable as possible. Loud music, tons of friends over, garbage all over, dirty clothes everywhere, playing hockey in the house...


----------



## manfromlamancha

Fearfulheart, just curious - in the beginning you said that you two were from different countries, races, religions etc and that you moved to the USA ? Is that correct ? If so, where are each of you from ? Do you think that had something to do with the breakdown of the marriage ? Is the OM the same race/religion as her ?


----------



## Iver

turnera said:


> If I were in that situation, I would make it my mission to make her as miserable as possible. Loud music, tons of friends over, garbage all over, dirty clothes everywhere, playing hockey in the house...


Don't forget leaving the toilet seat up.


----------



## arbitrator

turnera said:


> If I were in that situation, I would make it my mission to make her as miserable as possible. Loud music, tons of friends over, garbage all over, dirty clothes everywhere, playing hockey in the house...


*Tunera: The only possible thing wrong with that suggested scenario of yours is that I don't really think that I could stand to be around all of that tripe myself, much less her!

She sounds like the proverbial hickey on a hemorrhoid!*


----------



## turnera

meh, I'm really good at having fun with it, if I need to. It's all in the attitude. 

Like, how many times can I say 'whatever you say honey' or something else annoying...


----------



## fearfulheart

manfromlamancha said:


> Fearfulheart, just curious - in the beginning you said that you two were from different countries, races, religions etc and that you moved to the USA ? Is that correct ? If so, where are each of you from ? Do you think that had something to do with the breakdown of the marriage ? Is the OM the same race/religion as her ?


Wish I could attribute this A to that - of all the people in the world she has chosen to have the A with an OM who is the same race/religion as me. We had differences and was a lot harder initially but over 15 years and after 2 kids we had basically come to accept each other and seldom fought over these issues.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I strongly urge you to read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html and protect yourself and the kids!

Best wishes


----------



## fearfulheart

HobbesTheTiger said:


> I strongly urge you to read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html and protect yourself and the kids!
> 
> Best wishes


Thanks. We are way past that point - WW has already engaged an attorney and drafted the divorce paperwork but just not filed yet. I have hired an attorney and he is discussing with hers to figure out if she wants to do mediation or collaborative law and respond accordingly. Even though she wants D right away but refuses to file the papers - she wants me to take the lead and file D. 
My only rational conclusion is she wants me to file so in the future she can convince my kids that it was my decision to break this marriage. My 10 yr old is not handling this well - has been having mood swings and gets sad for no reason, crying episodes etc., but my 8 yr old doesn't seem to comprehend what is happening - still very playful. I really hope the kids will come out of this with least harm.


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> Thanks. We are way past that point - WW has already engaged an attorney and drafted the divorce paperwork but just not filed yet. I have hired an attorney and he is discussing with hers to figure out if she wants to do mediation or collaborative law and respond accordingly. Even though she wants D right away but refuses to file the papers - she wants me to take the lead and file D.
> My only rational conclusion is she wants me to file so in the future she can convince my kids that it was my decision to break this marriage. My 10 yr old is not handling this well - has been having mood swings and gets sad for no reason, crying episodes etc., but my 8 yr old doesn't seem to comprehend what is happening - still very playful. I really hope the kids will come out of this with least harm.


Can you not file for adultery so in future there can be no spin on what happened ?


----------



## fearfulheart

Locke.Stratos said:


> Try not to focus and engage her. She will act crazy and be unreasonable, that is a fact. You cannot control what she does or syas, or how you feel but you can control how you react. Limit your time around her.
> 
> Your attention should be on yourself and the goals you have set for yourself. How is the working out progressing? Spend time out of the house or invite friends and family over. You shouldn't confine your interactions to her only.


The personal trainer that I got is awesome. Within 6 sessions she has helped me drop waist by 4 inches and drop 20 lbs. I like how I look in the mirror already. She is also kind and compassionate - once I told her my story she has been extremely supportive and promised me that she will help me find a girl once I am ready. Of course it is real hard work and painful - dread going to the gym but it is all worth it!!


----------



## GusPolinski

fearfulheart said:


> *The personal trainer that I got is awesome. Within 6 sessions she has helped me drop waist by 4 inches and drop 20 lbs.* I like how I look in the mirror already. She is also kind and compassionate - once I told her my story she has been extremely supportive and promised me that she will help me find a girl once I am ready. Of course it is real hard work and painful - dread going to the gym but it is all worth it!!


Damn. I need her number!


----------



## fearfulheart

G.J. said:


> Can you not file for adultery so in future there can be no spin on what happened ?


According to my lawyer it will be much cheaper and quicker to file a no-fault divorce and in the state where we live at-fault divorce doesn't provide any significant advantage in child custody or financial matters. Also, the lawmakers have made it extremely hard to prove adultery (makes you wonder why).


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

fearfulheart said:


> According to my lawyer it will be much cheaper and quicker to file a no-fault divorce and in the state where we live at-fault divorce doesn't provide any significant advantage in child custody or financial matters. *Also, the lawmakers have made it extremely hard to prove adultery (makes you wonder why).*


Because politicians are cheaters and lyers as part of their jobs. It spills over to their personal lives. So it goes with out saying that they'd try to legislate laws that would be in their favor for if/when the time comes that their BS's D them.


----------



## Wazza

fearfulheart said:


> Thanks. We are way past that point - WW has already engaged an attorney and drafted the divorce paperwork but just not filed yet. I have hired an attorney and he is discussing with hers to figure out if she wants to do mediation or collaborative law and respond accordingly. Even though she wants D right away but refuses to file the papers - she wants me to take the lead and file D.
> My only rational conclusion is she wants me to file so in the future she can convince my kids that it was my decision to break this marriage. My 10 yr old is not handling this well - has been having mood swings and gets sad for no reason, crying episodes etc., but my 8 yr old doesn't seem to comprehend what is happening - still very playful. I really hope the kids will come out of this with least harm.





fearfulheart said:


> According to my lawyer it will be much cheaper and quicker to file a no-fault divorce and in the state where we live at-fault divorce doesn't provide any significant advantage in child custody or financial matters. Also, the lawmakers have made it extremely hard to prove adultery (makes you wonder why).


If you have proof that she was cheating, why not file and be done. Yes you did start the divorce, because she was unfaithful.

Alternately, does your lawyer have copies of her unfixed paperwork, and are they dated? 

I would think that - her having an affair, plus the divorce where she started things, plus her then taking up with OM (the kids are old enough to see this for themselves and remember it) is a pretty slam-dunk combination.

When the kids are old enough, if they want to know, just hand them the file.....

Caveat on all of this.....I wouldn't want to bring my kids into such a battle. So I would have the evidence, but would not necessarily use it.


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> According to my lawyer it will be much cheaper and quicker to file a no-fault divorce and in the state where we live at-fault divorce doesn't provide any significant advantage in child custody or financial matters. Also, the lawmakers have made it extremely hard to prove adultery (makes you wonder why).


It sucks

Compile as much evidence as possible to show the children when they are old enough and want to know the truth

if you can afford a P.I. for a day or 2 to write out a report that can go into the 'future file' for them later on
Its kind of official and would have an impact on then believing you in years to come if you think the out lay is worth it

As time will play into her hands on moulding their minds


----------



## G.J.

fearfulheart said:


> The personal trainer that I got is awesome. Within 6 sessions she has helped me drop waist by 4 inches and drop 20 lbs. I like how I look in the mirror already. She is also kind and compassionate - once I told her my story she has been extremely supportive and promised me that she will help me find a girl once I am ready. Of course it is real hard work and painful - dread going to the gym but it is all worth it!!


Unless your very very over weight that's really a bad way
After the first 2 weeks goal should be no more than 2 lbs a week if your after just weight loss
BUT great news on the Gym so don't bother about me too much as long as you go to the gym....just bear in mind sensible weight loss is the best way


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> The personal trainer that I got is awesome. Within 6 sessions she has helped me drop waist by 4 inches and drop 20 lbs. I like how I look in the mirror already. She is also kind and compassionate - once I told her my story she has been extremely supportive and promised me that she will help me find a girl once I am ready. Of course it is real hard work and painful - dread going to the gym


Fearful I'm f****** happy for you:smthumbup:. Things will only get better, keep up your progress.


----------



## Q tip

GusPolinski said:


> Damn. I need her number!


Gus, it's simple. There are like 9 basic lifting exercises. I mentioned them once or twice. Will PM you a list of to dos.


----------



## ThePheonix

I think Gus may be talking about picking up rather than lifting. 

Fearful my man, the personal trainer is likely excellent at setting you up with chicks. A lady friend who owed a salon and spa got me in the escort business and I wasn't all that. (although I did have a better than average physique)


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

G.J. said:


> Unless your very very over weight that's really a bad way


It is extremely common to have a larger than normal weight loss in the first few weeks of working out and diet correction. He needs to worry if it doesn't slow down.


----------



## G.J.

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It is extremely common to have a larger than normal weight loss in the first few weeks of working out and diet correction. He needs to worry if it doesn't slow down.


Lets see my full post shall we



> Unless your very very over weight that's really a bad way
> *After the first 2 weeks* goal should be no more than 2 lbs a week if your after just weight loss
> BUT great news on the Gym so don't bother about me ....just bear in mind sensible weight loss is the best way


SEE where I stated *first 2 weeks*

please read and quote me fully

Why you tried to correct me on an issue that I stated baffles me

P.S
If you want any advice message me, I am a fully qualified Gym instructor, one of my part time hobbies as I own a private Gym


----------



## Graywolf2

fearfulheart said:


> Even though she wants D right away but refuses to file the papers - she wants me to take the lead and file D. My only rational conclusion is she wants me to file so in the future she can convince my kids that it was my decision to break this marriage.


I seem to have a greater need than most people to set the record straight. If I were in your situation I prepare a “time capsule” for your kids. They are much too young to understand things now but they grow up. 

It sounds like their mom would like to rewrite history. You two had a bad marriage and you divorced her. Then she started dating the OM who became their step dad.

Collect whatever concrete evidence that would prove her wrong. You could even record her with a VAR. You can store everything on the cloud. Years from now you may decide to never show it to them at all or just parts. But now is the time to collect it. Don’t tell her or anyone else what you’re doing.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

G.J. said:


> Lets see my full post shall we
> 
> 
> 
> SEE where I stated *first 2 weeks*
> 
> please read and quote me fully
> 
> Why you tried to correct me on an issue that I stated baffles me


It was how you wrote the post. I'd explain, but it will be a derailing bicker session on semantics. I agree with your explanation and apologize for misreading your post.


G.J. said:


> P.S
> If you want any advice message me, I am a fully qualified Gym instructor, one of my part time hobbies as I own a private Gym


Awesome, thank you but I'm good. I was a qualified gym trainer and martial arts instructor for 15 years. I had a choice between my hobby or watching my kids excel in sports. I chose the later and haven't missed a game in a decade.


----------



## G.J.

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It was how you wrote the post. I'd explain, bt it will be a derailing bicker session on semantics. I agree with your explanation and apologize for misreading your post.
> 
> Awesome, thank you but I'm good. I was a qualified gym trainer and martial arts instructor for 15 years. I had a choice between my hobby or watching my kids excel in sports. I chose the later and haven't missed a game in a decade.


Thank you for the apology as it takes a confident person to acknowledge and then action for misreading, and yes derails 
on posts in no way normally help the OP
Perhaps it was the way I wrote it as my strong suit is verbal communication whereas typing is normally done via secretary lol

I don't spend as much time in my business gym these days only the one I have at home as my main business is too 
demanding but glad to say I fitted in watching my kids excel at Ruby and gymnastics

Best time I find is 5:30 am workout for 45 mins as these days its more smart training instead of quantity


----------



## fearfulheart

finally today marks the beginning of the end of my marriage. She has called her lawyer to file the divorce papers and we will be going through mediation to resolve most of the issues. I got the news from my lawyer while at work - feeling extremely nervous and emotional and having a really hard time focusing on work. I hope I will feel better in a few days.


----------



## happyman64

FH

You will be fine in time.

Focus on you, your kids and your job.

The kids need your support now and you need your job.

HM


----------



## workindad

fearfulheart said:


> finally today marks the beginning of the end of my marriage. She has called her lawyer to file the divorce papers and we will be going through mediation to resolve most of the issues. I got the news from my lawyer while at work - feeling extremely nervous and emotional and having a really hard time focusing on work. I hope I will feel better in a few days.




I know it is tough, but make the most of this new opportunity in your life to rebuild your life better than it was before. Think of it this way, you are removing a betraying cheating liar from your life.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

*Fearfulheart*, how have you been doing?


----------



## fearfulheart

Locke.Stratos said:


> *Fearfulheart*, how have you been doing?


I am in a much better state of mind - got an opportunity at work to be on the road for this whole week and took it as I did not want to witness my STBXW and OM celebrate their valentine's day. Divorce is proceeding - have a meeting with mediator 2 weeks from now. Occasionally have this feeling of loneliness but trying to distract myself with work to minimize such feelings. 
Health wise I have never been in a better shape. Last week when my PT measured my body fat and musle weight they were in normal range - my body weight has stabilized and I have a lot more stamina now. 
Thanks to all the folks here in TAM for their advice - doing the 180 and focusing on making myself both physically and emotionally better has helped tremendously!
Looking forward to a better tomorrow for both myself and my kids.


----------



## arbitrator

fearfulheart said:


> I am in a much better state of mind - got an opportunity at work to be on the road for this whole week and took it as I did not want to witness my STBXW and OM celebrate their valentine's day. Divorce is proceeding - have a meeting with mediator 2 weeks from now. Occasionally have this feeling of loneliness but trying to distract myself with work to minimize such feelings.
> Health wise I have never been in a better shape. Last week when my PT measured my body fat and musle weight they were in normal range - my body weight has stabilized and I have a lot more stamina now.
> Thanks to all the folks here in TAM for their advice - doing the 180 and focusing on making myself both physically and emotionally better has helped tremendously!
> Looking forward to a better tomorrow for both myself and my kids.


*Great news, Fearful!

Sorry, but lonliness and isolation seems to go hand in hand in the territory you're now treading, just as it's been and continues to be for the vast majority of us "Betrayed's!"

But you seem to have a good handle on yourself as well as an eye on the future, and that will indeed continue to serve you well!

Nothing but my continued best wishes for your future!*


----------



## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> I am in a much better state of mind - got an opportunity at work to be on the road for this whole week and took it as I did not want to witness my STBXW and OM celebrate their valentine's day. Divorce is proceeding - have a meeting with mediator 2 weeks from now. Occasionally have this feeling of loneliness but trying to distract myself with work to minimize such feelings.
> Health wise I have never been in a better shape. Last week when my PT measured my body fat and musle weight they were in normal range - my body weight has stabilized and I have a lot more stamina now.
> Thanks to all the folks here in TAM for their advice - doing the 180 and focusing on making myself both physically and emotionally better has helped tremendously!
> Looking forward to a better tomorrow for both myself and my kids.


That is awesome to hear, trust me all of this will be behind you and you won't even recognize the person you were when you first came here. You have a great life ahead of you and the loneliness is temporary. It is better to be alone than be with someone that makes you feel alone.

All the best Fearful!!


----------



## fearfulheart

I had taken a trip out of town to avoid valentine's dad so just got back home after 10 days. My cruel and inhumane STBXW has placed a dozen roses on the kitchen table (I am almost certain who would have given her the dozen roses) - why would she do such a thing? Can't she wait for a few more months to get the papers signed, move out and do all these with her OM? She is not home yet but I decided to dump it in the trash outside - I am trying really hard to maintain 180 and not bring it up so venting here.


----------



## turnera

I would leave a note under it: Wow, congratulations. You must really be a great lay to get a bouquet this big.


----------



## 3putt

fearfulheart said:


> I had taken a trip out of town to avoid valentine's dad so just got back home after 10 days. My cruel and inhumane STBXW has placed a dozen roses on the kitchen table (I am almost certain who would have given her the dozen roses) - why would she do such a thing? Can't she wait for a few more months to get the papers signed, move out and do all these with her OM? She is not home yet but I decided to dump it in the trash outside - I am trying really hard to maintain 180 and not bring it up so venting here.


I would've taken them out back, run the lawn mower over them and then stuffed the remains back in the vase with a note similar to what Turnera suggested.


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## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> I had taken a trip out of town to avoid valentine's dad so just got back home after 10 days. My cruel and inhumane STBXW has placed a dozen roses on the kitchen table (I am almost certain who would have given her the dozen roses) - why would she do such a thing? Can't she wait for a few more months to get the papers signed, move out and do all these with her OM? She is not home yet but I decided to dump it in the trash outside - I am trying really hard to maintain 180 and not bring it up so venting here.


*Fearful*, considering everything that she has done and put you through are you really surprised at anything that she says or does? You shouldn't expect a modicum of deceny or consideration from her. Throw that notion out the window.

She will say, behave and do things that get to you because it's her way of still exerting a form of control over you. It will continue to affect you as long as you care and react to what she does or wants going on in her life.

You need to reach a state of indeifference but also self-assurance when it comes to her. Instead of worrying about her Valentine's plans you should have had your own. Maybe it's time you put yourself out there a little.


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## Wazza

Locke.Stratos said:


> She will say, behave and do things that get to you because it's her way of still exerting a form of control over you.


That's one possible explanation. The other is that she is so caught up in fairy floss and unicorns that she is stupid and genuinely doesn't see how hurtful her actions are. 

"Yes it's incredibly sad, but life is like that. I have offered to be his friend..."

Heck she might even be puzzled that you are not happy for her.

Either way, sorry. It still hurts. But it will get better.


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## BobSimmons

Running over flowers, dumping them in the trash?!!?

Congratulations, this is what she wants/or simply doesn't care either way she wins. Her little ego stoked again.

OP says how could she do this to him? She's not thinking about him..as cruel as it sounds. We all think somehow those that cheat do it to hurt us..in some instances maybe but in most we simply don't factor.

To her she's divorcing, she got some flowers, she might have just forgot them or left them there but she has detached and is living her life. Those flowers to OP, a huge slap in the face, very significant. To her? Who knows, her head is in the clouds and she simply doesn't care.

Dude, she keeps prodding you and you keep reacting. Stop participating in the little power play games. You only have a few months to your freedom, if you need to stay away from her. Go to your room, walk past the flowers, go out, do something. Just separate yourself from all the BS and live your life.

She has to stop winning at some point. She only wins because of how you react to her bait. So stop biting.


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## MattMatt

She is high on a mixture of rainbow juice and unicorn milk. She might not even realise that what she does is even remotely hurtful to you, nor that it makes her look like such a vile person.


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## Q tip

she bought them for herself. clowns do that. its calculated.


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## MattMatt

Q tip said:


> she bought them for herself. clowns do that. its calculated.


My wife sometimes treats herself to flowers, so maybe not even anything meant by it?


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## MattMatt

Ah. Unless she got no flowers from you because she was cheating and no flowers from her lover because he is a louse?

So, in order to make herself feel somewhat better about herself, she bought herself some Valentine's flowers?:scratchhead:


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## warlock07

turnera said:


> I would leave a note under it: Wow, congratulations. You must really be a great lay to get a bouquet this big.


You are the master of staircase wit.

:smthumbup:


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## Hopelessus

I would meet but like many people said in a public place def. Maybe bring someone else along. I would also make a list of things you want to discuss.


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## Q tip

...and time to change your name from fearfulheart to FearsNothing!


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## happyman64

So FH I have seen you posting lately in other threads.

How are you doing, your kids doing and how is the mediation going?

HM


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## fearfulheart

happyman64 said:


> So FH I have seen you posting lately in other threads.
> 
> How are you doing, your kids doing and how is the mediation going?
> 
> HM


WW has been stalling the mediation proceedings. I took the kids on a week long vacation and we had a great time. WW was extremely jealous when we returned and started her crying drama. She now wants to R (even called her lawyer and asked them to withdraw her petition), willing to take a poly, share passwords for all her a/c's and called OM in front of me saying it is over. 
At this point I am not sure if I want R but I have asked my lawyer to hold off for few weeks - just trying to figure out if she is genuine this time or will fall back to her old self in few weeks. I am still doing the 180 and focusing on improving myself (physically and emotionally). I am ok either way - if R is for real it will be good for the kids, if I continue with D it will be good for me.


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## SadSamIAm

R won't be good for the kids or for you. You really need to get out of this marriage.


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## happyman64

*Why to talk. Is it dangerous*

Time is on your side.

Why not sit back, observe and see just how serious she is about R?

The choice is always yours. Your WW just doesn't realize it yet.

HM


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## turnera

Write out a list of what she's done to you. Then write out a list of what she has to offer. DO NOT INCLUDE 'but I love her!' in your list; it's a waste.

See if one list outweighs the other.


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## Locke.Stratos

fearfulheart said:


> WW has been stalling the mediation proceedings. I took the kids on a week long vacation and we had a great time. WW was extremely jealous when we returned and started her crying drama. She now wants to R (even called her lawyer and asked them to withdraw her petition), willing to take a poly, share passwords for all her a/c's and called OM in front of me saying it is over.
> At this point I am not sure if I want R but I have asked my lawyer to hold off for few weeks - just trying to figure out if she is genuine this time or will fall back to her old self in few weeks. I am still doing the 180 and focusing on improving myself (physically and emotionally). I am ok either way - if R is for real it will be good for the kids, if I continue with D it will be good for me.


Sorry but what she is doing is textbook. She may seem sincere and even believe that she is, but her behaviour is a reaction to her circumstances. Her plans haven't progressed as she had hoped and there is uncertainty in her future so she is defaulting back to you because you're the 'known' safe and secure option. She sees you moving on and doing alright and she cannot have that.

Men and women tend to leave once someone else is lined up. Her situation with her lover may have deteriorated and probably wasn't the happily ever after love affair she had envisioned so for her to call him and end it in front of you was nothing. Who is to say there won't be another or the same OM in the future, you already know she is capable of being unfaithful. Sharing her passwords means nothing when she has deleted all incriminating evidence and there is nothing sketchy to hide at the moment.

You've been through this before with her so many times. I thought you had moved past this little dance of hers. For you to buckle this quickly *again* will undo all the progress and work you've done on yourself. Women tend to be turned off and lose respect for men that they can manipulate and control. Once everything has settled and she feels that she has things the way she wants them her charade will end.

She hasn't done any work on herself to warrant you believing that she is all of a sudden a different person. You said that she is _willing_ to take a polygraph and share passwords which means she hasn't done these yet. All she has done is made two calls and cried.

If you want to see if she is genuine then proceed with the divorce. If she is willing to work on your relatioship afterwards then you will know she is genuine.


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## jnj express

If your mge, as it is today---is over, then its over----let sleeping dogs lie, and move on

Living in a house of misery, will NOT be good for the kids----2 split homes, that are reasonably happy will be best for the kids----as you saw from your vacation----you had a good time---cuz without your cheating wife present----there was nothing there to make any of you miserable

Your wife want's to R----cuz all of a sudden it has hit her smack in the middle of her brain----the peace of mind she had----and her good life style----WILL BE GONE----she may now have to work her fingers to the bone---just to break even every month----she now realizes what she has done to herself---and she DOES NOT LIKE THE FUTURE, as it looks to her---IF SHE IS ON HER OWN-----life with her lover doesn't look so good anymore

You will do whatever---but remember this-----you will live at some level of misery----for having to wake up each day, and having to look at and be with this woman who allowed another man inside of her-----who deceived/manipulated/lied to you----and WHO TREATED YOU PROBABLY VERY HORRIBLY DURING HER A.------she will be there day after day---TO TRIGGER your misery---to TRIGGER---your subconscious---to TRIGGER your pain

If you D. and move on---you will remember, and live in misery,---but each day will get better----as your life will involve others, and you will become busy with other plans, and a new life-----BUT-----stay with your wife----it will be the same old thing---that put you where you are now----and the misery WILL NEVER GO AWAY----the only thing that will change is the LEVEL OF THAT MISERY--------you can NOT get rid of the memories, and all the pain that goes with it---CUZ YOU CANNOT GET RID OF YOUR OWN SUB-CONSCIOUS

You need to do what is best for you----NO MATTER WHAT----what is best for YOU----not your kids, not your cheating wife----YOU MUST DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU


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## fearfulheart

I am back from a really long absence. Contrary to everyone's advice in this forum, I buckled and tried working things out with WW for almost a year. We made some progress, she initiated MC but refused to do the things the counsellor asked us to do. She stopped talking for months and I thought I will give her space until yesterday when she finally admitted that she was just afraid of D but was really unhappy in this relationship. So I am back to my lawyer to restart the process. OM has moved out of town and AFAIK has no contact with her. I just wasted another year of my life


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## farsidejunky

Don't waste another one.

Sunk costs, brother. Make up for it by making 2016 your best year ever.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

Fearful heart sorry your heart keeps pulling you back when your mind knows better. Maybe you'll stay the course this time, and provide advice for others that insist on following in your path.


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## Marc878

fearfulheart said:


> I am back from a really long absence. Contrary to everyone's advice in this forum, I buckled and tried working things out with WW for almost a year. We made some progress, she initiated MC but refused to do the things the counsellor asked us to do. She stopped talking for months and I thought I will give her space until yesterday when she finally admitted that she was just afraid of D but was really unhappy in this relationship. So I am back to my lawyer to restart the process. OM has moved out of town and AFAIK has no contact with her. I just wasted another year of my life


Let her do it this time.

She'll just cry a bit and suck you right back in if you file.

Your life is like a broken record. 

It will give you some time to try and find where she hid your manhood.


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## MattMatt

fearfulheart said:


> I am back from a really long absence. Contrary to everyone's advice in this forum, I buckled and tried working things out with WW for almost a year. We made some progress, she initiated MC but refused to do the things the counsellor asked us to do. She stopped talking for months and I thought I will give her space until yesterday when she finally admitted that she was just afraid of D but was really unhappy in this relationship. So I am back to my lawyer to restart the process. OM has moved out of town and AFAIK has no contact with her. I just wasted another year of my life


You did not waste anything.

You merely spent a year learning that, affair or no affair, your wife is not the woman you, or your kids, thought she was.

And that divorce is the best way forward.


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## MJJEAN

I read through your thread. I'm sorry you went through so much back and forth. I'm sorry you're hurting and feel like you wasted a year of your life. But, the silver lining, you now know you did everything you could and that the marriage ending wasn't because you didn't try. Maybe that knowledge will help you heal and move on.

Did you keep going to the gym?


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## happyman64

FH

You tried and that is all that matters.

That is what your kids will remember.

Now get the wacko wife out of your life so you can be happy.

HM


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## manfromlamancha

Sorry about the way things turned out. Just out of curiosity, where are you and your ex from originally ?


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## bigfoot

Look at it like being held back a grade. You needed to learn the lessons that would prepare you for the next level.

The only question is will you repeat yourself again? 

Separate yourself. Detach. Don't look for hope or silver linings in this gray cloud of a relationship. See things thru to the end NO MATTER WHAT. Then, if for some strange reason, you get lured back, you will have obstacles in your way to slow you down.


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## Pob

You still have some higher ground here but you have to do one thing. 

Get fit. 

Everything will
Fall into place. You'll feel better. More self worth. She'll start to want you old school. And then you will be attractive to other women bc you care for yourself and by default can care for them. Throw in a sense of humor and some interests and your on your way to a better relationship than you've ever had! And your ww's head will spin.


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## TheTruthHurts

I hired a trainer and see him 2x a week for 45 minute sessions. For comparison, he set up a workout for me at home and it took 1 hr 45 minutes. The trainer sets it all up, brings weights, sets the machines... You just lift, rest, lift... very efficient. TOTALLY worth it. Was $40 for 30 min now $50 for 45 and I pay him cash $400 in advance for 8 sessions for a month. Workout in big city downtown office building with new free health club in the top floor.

You're worth the money and investment in yourself. I feel awesome after working out. Totally recommend it.

Btw I started out about 100lbs overweight but am strong, got black belt TKD a couple years ago with my kids. So I am older, way overweight but working on it. If I can you definitely can.


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## fearfulheart

MJJEAN said:


> I read through your thread. I'm sorry you went through so much back and forth. I'm sorry you're hurting and feel like you wasted a year of your life. But, the silver lining, you now know you did everything you could and that the marriage ending wasn't because you didn't try. Maybe that knowledge will help you heal and move on.
> 
> Did you keep going to the gym?


I have been going to gym on and off but I have seen tremendous progress by changing the personal trainer. Slowly but steadily replacing body fats with muscles and makes me feel less depressed.


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