# Loss of love, loss of sex, loss of desire, loss of attraction or are these all just excuses?



## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Loss of love, loss of sex, loss of desire, loss of attraction or are these just excuses?

I read on here a lot, but the headscratcher on these forums is, the lack of intimacy. Mainly in long term relationships, but a few that this happens in the 1st few years.
This is not really new, but it has led to many divorces, all to fall back into the trap again.
There are no straight answers on here, but you can find common factors in most.

The most obvious and this will not change1st - most males want sex, 1st and foremost and YES, women know this.
They do not hide this in the beginning and again, this normally will not change.
Females want an emotional, heartfelt relationship 1st (unless they are young and horny - like under 28), and intimacy normally follows.
Here is where the problem starts. The female in the new relationship will give into the mans desires (for obvious reasons) which is sex 1st, which confuses the male. Again, the man is all about sex, sex, sex. This won't change, unless forced!
For the female though, she has one thing in mind, no matter what she does in the beginning. This is to be the natural caretaker. This means, wants to create a family, wants to take care of a family and so on. This all falls into the emotional desires, that follows sex.
Here is where the complication comes into play.
Once the female gets married and settles down (normally because of children and life), sex takes 2nd stage.
Not to say the desire is completely gone, but it is 2nd stage now. To the male it is and always will be 1st thing on the mind and will be the most important, even if the desire for the spouse leaves.
The game begins when the female says she has to be fulfilled emotionally, before she can desire sex. Where was this in the beginning? Why does this come out, after the man is taken off the market? Why did she give it up so eagerly in the beginning? Why is this not isolated cases, but seems to be the norm in long term relationships?
We know there are other reasons to these type of situations - like loss of attraction, medical and so on, but if you read, most are very common and all say the same thing. Then there is, he doesn't try anymore, but the fail to mention of the being told no so many times.

Here is a very true story and I see it more times than not. This should give you insight of what is going on, even though there is the typical excuse.
My ex-wife at the time of 1st meeting her. Showed the desire for me, loved sex and so on. Then we had our son and life also got busy. She started to lose the desire, so I thought I would be patient (mistake #1). As time went on, she would not initiate, but say you can have sex with me, if you want to. I said where is that desire? She said, I am tired, kids, work and such. Of coarse I had the same responsibility and all, but my desire never left at the time.
I wanted to know, why did my wife not want me sexually, like she did at the beginning? I felt this was the norm. so I brushed it aside. Yes, many many other men were complaining of the same thing, so I felt it was normal.
Finely, women started coming onto me strongly and were quite a bit more aggressive then I was use to. I suppressed the urge to cheat, but I was just getting hornier and hornier as time went on. Wife would notice and say if that is all you want is sex, then leave and go be with someone else, I thought HUH! So, eventually I would leave and move on.
Short answer for me - I found my wife now (15 years) and I set this relationship up for a list of "MY" rules. I fought my now wife to not get married. She assured me, she would never do this to me, ever and she has not. Her goal, as of many, was to get me off the market and YES she said it just like that. Even with meno. she still will make sure my desire does not change, even if she needs to suck my eyeballs back into my head, LOL.
Now, for my ex-wife (we remained close as for my son and sometimes she leans on me for emotional support, is why I know) - she started dating right after our divorce. In fact, she dated 1st before I did, which I felt it was strange that she wanted to get into a relationship right away (loniness, that's a another topic, lol). She was dressing up, had a sexual desire that was just like when she met me and so on. She finely found the man she is with today (going on 7 years) and I have gotten somewhat close to him. He loves her, but he opened up way to much to me. He asked, when did my ex stop having the desire with me? I was blown away. I said, what? He said for the past couple years, her desire has went down to 5%. He said she desired him so much in the beginning, that once he moved in, the switch was turned off to the dim mode.
This is when realize, she did this to capture the man again, all to go back to her normal ways.
This does not mean she does not want sex, it just means she wants it on her own terms.
So many of you are caught into the deceptive trap. This is the norm for most, but not all. Some has to do with loss of attraction like weight gain and so on. Some has to do with the fact that the average older female does not need sex as much as the man.
The nay-sayers can argue their point and tell me how wrong I am, but this is more common than you want to admit.
I have seen it over the years, with a lot of my own friends and family.
What is puzzling is, the female (mainly talking about the older female), will rinse and repeat, like they have never done anything wrong, all to end up in the same failed relationship.

Please, I love speech and debate, so tell me your thoughts on this. I would say, asking for a friend, but actually my older brother is knee deep in this and he won't leave, he just learned not desire sex from his wife. Their kids are grown and they like the dynamics of the relationship still. I won't go into how controlling she is to him and still deny's him sex. In fact has said multiple times, if he cheats, she will ruin his life.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Defhero said:


> Loss of love, loss of sex, loss of desire, loss of attraction or are these just excuses?


Excuses for what?



> I read on here a lot, but the headscratcher on these forums is, the lack of intimacy. Mainly in long term relationships, but a few that this happens in the 1st few years.


Well, birds of a feather flock together, so it's hardly a surprise that you read such things here a lot.



> This is not really new, but it has led to many divorces, all to fall back into the trap again.
> There are no straight answers on here, but you can find common factors in most.


So things like establishing covert contracts, harbouring resentment, being conflict avoidant, being inclined to settle for less, being a dead root and often being boring.



> The most obvious and this will not change1st - most males want sex, 1st and foremost and YES, women know this.
> They do not hide this in the beginning and again, this normally will not change.


Having been married twice and having enjoyed another longer term sexual relationship, plus other shorter term ones and several one night stands and get togethers at pubs, clubs and parties. From experience I reckon parades of women desire lots of sex and want plenty more of it when it's good.



> Females want an emotional, heartfelt relationship 1st (unless they are young and horny - like under 28), and intimacy normally follows.


Perhaps you're reading a different forum? Since in most instances here, it’s the men who are quite emotional. With lots of women being pretty blunt and pragmatic to me.

What would be more accurate, would be to assert that lots of women and men want an emotional heartfelt relationship.



> Here is where the problem starts. The female in the new relationship will give into the mans desires (for obvious reasons) which is sex 1st, which confuses the male. Again, the man is all about sex, sex, sex. This won't change, unless forced!


In the first place if a woman is giving in rather than wanting it just as much or more than who they are with, then that's a miserable start to begin with, and does not bode well for the future.

Likewise if all a man has got going for himself, is he is all about sex, sex, sex. Then he's simply an extraordinary bore, who isn't fit for participation in and contribution to a successful ongoing sexual relationship.



> For the female though, she has one thing in mind, no matter what she does in the beginning. This is to be the natural caretaker. This means, wants to create a family, wants to take care of a family and so on. This all falls into the emotional desires, that follows sex.


Bollocks, I've been with plenty of women who were just wanting a good time and certainly didn't and still don't want to have kids etc.

Understanding women really isn't rocket science, talking to them and listening to them as individuals really helps on this. Of which this idea that women all think alike, is ridiculous. And holding that kind of mindset, does the holder of that thinking no favours.



> Here is where the complication comes into play.
> Once the female gets married and settles down (normally because of children and life), sex takes 2nd stage.
> Not to say the desire is completely gone, but it is 2nd stage now. To the male it is and always will be 1st thing on the mind and will be the most important, even if the desire for the spouse leaves.


There are lots of women who don’t do that.

While there are also lots of men who turn the sex tap off, or who have low libidos, or are sexual duds and so on. So there are lots of women who find themselves in what are supposed to be sexual relationships, with men who most often withhold sex or won't share any sex with them at all.



> The game begins when the female says she has to be fulfilled emotionally, before she can desire sex. Where was this in the beginning? Why does this come out, after the man is taken off the market? Why did she give it up so eagerly in the beginning? Why is this not isolated cases, but seems to be the norm in long term relationships?
> We know there are other reasons to these type of situations - like loss of attraction, medical and so on, but if you read, most are very common and all say the same thing. Then there is, he doesn't try anymore, but the fail to mention of the being told no so many times.


Well not being bored out of their mind with more of the same old, same old, interminably gong forward, can go a very long way towards sustaining emotional fulfilment. Not forgetting that not being partnered with someone who establishes covert contracts, harbours resentment, is conflict avoidant also does wonders for fulfilment.

As to being the norm. Just like your anecdotes I have my own. Which all boil down to birds of a feather.

For example about a decade ago I attended an Infants and Primary School reunion. When there while chatting with now old friends, (2 men and a handful of women). The other guy at our table lamented the fact that being married and being in long term sexual relationship killed sex. Unfortunately just because his wife no longer wanted to share sex with him, he presumed everyone was in the same boat.

Yet all the rest of us were surprised by his experience, since for the rest of us we all still loved sex with our partners, still shared lots of it and that it had always been thus, from before marriage, after and through children and so on. Which then led to a funny conversation about sex. Followed by us questioning him, on why he would settle for a sexless marriage and not immediately divorce his wife as soon as she turned the sex tap off.



> Here is a very true story and I see it more times than not. This should give you insight of what is going on, even though there is the typical excuse.
> My ex-wife at the time of 1st meeting her. Showed the desire for me, loved sex and so on. Then we had our son and life also got busy. She started to lose the desire, so I thought I would be patient (mistake #1). As time went on, she would not initiate, but say you can have sex with me, if you want to. I said where is that desire? She said, I am tired, kids, work and such. Of coarse I had the same responsibility and all, but my desire never left at the time.
> I wanted to know, why did my wife not want me sexually, like she did at the beginning? I felt this was the norm. so I brushed it aside. Yes, many many other men were complaining of the same thing, so I felt it was normal.


Uh huh.

Except for reading about this here on TAM, and that conversation with an old school friend. I have not known any other man, complain about being with a wife who no longer wanted to share sex with their spouse. And funnily enough I knew/know a few more women who did complain about being with husbands, who turned the sex tap off (yet they fixed that by divorcing them).

Here is another true story and I see it more times than not.

I met my (2nd) wife at work while at the time I was casually dating other women. At first my very pretty wife (who was almost 26) thought I was a bit too cocky, yet she also liked my confidence. So she started asking me to have lunch with her, which then led to her asking me out on a proper date (at lunchtime). Which then led to another date on the same evening, which we followed by spending the night together with lots of heavy petting. Then on our third date, we again ended up back at hers and she pulled me onto her and asking me to have sex with her.

At the time neither of us was wanting anything more than some winter fun, with the intention of moving on after a little while. Yet we kept sharing lots of sex had fun doing so and enjoyed spending time together. So we just kept doing that, which eventually led to us getting married close to 3 years after that. All while still sharing oodles of fun sex together after getting married (her 1st marriage). Then eventually she got pregnant, and the sex didn't stop through pregnancy, then we had our first child together (her 1st my 2nd). And again the sex didn't stop or wane either.

Now at a few weeks shy of 23 years of marriage, inside a close to 26 year sexual relationship. We still enjoy a very rich and enthusiastic shared sex life with tremendous frequency and great variety. And that rich sex life has been nourished Throughout having shared 9 different addresses, different jobs/careers, two children, a house fire, being cut off by floods, an enormous bushfire, Covid-19 restrictions, almost being killed together in a multi casualty incident, other illnesses and injuries including cancer (hers), being carers for a now adult child who is likely to die from their illness and plenty more besides.

Of which for my wife and I, we've always thought that sharing a rich sex life in marriage, is the norm with someone who you help nourish a rich sex life with.

Oh and then there was my ex-wife, who when she saw me at a party, asked a mutual friend to ask me to go and say hi to her. So I obliged because she was very pretty and I had the tingles, she then told me how beautiful I was and asked me to kiss her, so we did that for a bit then 2 hours later we spent the night into the morning sharing sex. There were no strings attached yet it was fun, we liked each other so we just kept sharing sex together going forward. In the end she got pregnant after we had been together for a year and a half so we got married young (she was 18 and I was 19). It didn't work out, yet the enormous amount of sex we shared never waned through it all until we split up and then later divorced.

So it's only the norm for those who settle for it.



> Finely, women started coming onto me strongly and were quite a bit more aggressive then I was use to. I suppressed the urge to cheat, but I was just getting hornier and hornier as time went on. Wife would notice and say if that is all you want is sex, then leave and go be with someone else, I thought HUH! So, eventually I would leave and move on.
> Short answer for me - I found my wife now (15 years) and I set this relationship up for a list of "MY" rules. I fought my now wife to not get married. She assured me, she would never do this to me, ever and she has not. Her goal, as of many, was to get me off the market and YES she said it just like that. Even with meno. she still will make sure my desire does not change, even if she needs to suck my eyeballs back into my head, LOL.


Well I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners, although in a few instances I have very briefly been the other man. So despite my mostly considering cheating on ones sexual partner to be poor form, there are some limited instances when I think it is reasonable behaviour.

That said I've never had a list of rules on expectations, and I've never lacked for lots of great shared sex. But if it works for you, I'm glad it helps.



> Now, for my ex-wife (we remained close as for my son and sometimes she leans on me for emotional support, is why I know) - she started dating right after our divorce. In fact, she dated 1st before I did, which I felt it was strange that she wanted to get into a relationship right away (loniness, that's a another topic, lol). She was dressing up, had a sexual desire that was just like when she met me and so on. She finely found the man she is with today (going on 7 years) and I have gotten somewhat close to him. He loves her, but he opened up way to much to me. He asked, when did my ex stop having the desire with me? I was blown away. I said, what? He said for the past couple years, her desire has went down to 5%. He said she desired him so much in the beginning, that once he moved in, the switch was turned off to the dim mode.
> This is when realize, she did this to capture the man again, all to go back to her normal ways.
> This does not mean she does not want sex, it just means she wants it on her own terms.


Or maybe for the most part it wasn't done to capture anyone, yet over time the sex became boring and didn't satiate her desires sufficiently to want to press on with the same old, same old.

And what's wrong with wanting sex on ones own terms?

Seriously I can't imagine wanting to share sex, not on my own terms. So I don't expect others to not want to share sex on their own terms either.



> So many of you are caught into the deceptive trap. This is the norm for most, but not all. Some has to do with loss of attraction like weight gain and so on. Some has to do with the fact that the average older female does not need sex as much as the man.


Not me! 😉

Since my attractive and luscious wife, still enthusiastically shares a rich, frequent and varied sex life with me.

So I'm alright Jack.

Probably because I don't establish covert contracts and harbour resentment. Plus I'm not conflict avoidant, or inclined to settle for less. Nor am I a dead root and I'm mostly not boring either.



> The nay-sayers can argue their point and tell me how wrong I am, but this is more common than you want to admit.
> I have seen it over the years, with a lot of my own friends and family.
> What is puzzling is, the female (mainly talking about the older female), will rinse and repeat, like they have never done anything wrong, all to end up in the same failed relationship.


Your own friends and family, so more birds of a feather, flock together.

At the end of the day different people have different results, so you might experience different things if you seek different people with different perspectives.



> Please, I love speech and debate, so tell me your thoughts on this. I would say, asking for a friend, but actually my older brother is knee deep in this and he won't leave, he just learned not desire sex from his wife. Their kids are grown and they like the dynamics of the relationship still. I won't go into how controlling she is to him and still deny's him sex. In fact has said multiple times, if he cheats, she will ruin his life.
> v


If your brother settles for a sexless marriage, he is not victim since he is volunteering for more of the same. So he is getting exactly what he chooses, which is evidently what he wants. So good for him.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

These interpersonal problems are fairly easily fixed in therapy compared to the REALLY serious sexual disorders some people have due to physical illness, depression, attachment disorders, sexual aversion, general anxiety, childhood abuse, sexual assault, performance anxiety etc, etc all of which are extremely difficult to fix.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> Excuses for what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good response, although Christ it's a book!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Well OP your brother might be in a garage relationship but if you believe the majority of relationships are as you wrote then I will have to make the assumption your relationship is garbage as well….. and not necessarily by the making of your wife.
Your brother is where he is because he’s chicken chit to do anything about it and his wife knows it. That’s on him…..


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

The point is, excuses are excuses. When you see a certain "Type" that rinses and repeats and all they have are excuses/blame game, then you have to wonder why. Why even get into a relationship? You know what most men want and if you take that away, then you kill 50% of what a grown man "needs". Yes, needs. So, stay single and stop your insanity of what you believe a relationship should be.....
Of coarse when people fall into this, they need a place to turn and for this TAM is a good place to go to read, learn and see how many others are going through the same thing
. 
Now for this, I do not get why 2 people fall in love with each other and that usually brings sparks and lust. Both show great attributes of wanting the same thing, especially sex towards each other and normally the feeling of, I can't get enough of your, is played by both. Then it follows with being taken off the market and the game begins or we will call it excuses begin. It's funny and sad to watch my ex wife do this to another person. The problem is, I feel sorry for the poor soul.
I am married for 15 years now and my wife will tell you, these are excuses of people who become complacent and take things for granted, until it's gone. It's all about respect, respect, respect. Once 1 loses it, it's downhill from there. 
What I mentioned about my ex, I have seen with so many of my friends and family, all for the ex-wife not wanting to be alone, so she suckers the "NEXT" one into her trap, all to rinse, repeat and then tell everyone that they meet the wrong person everytime, without looking at what they might actually be doing to hinder the relationship. 
This is why most want to lease, instead of buy these days. You can drive new, every 2, lol. 

There are many who will not come to these forums, so there is a silent majority we won't ever hear from.
And yes, I do know there are some women who do not do this, but the other women sure are teaching the bad habits to the newbies in this matter......


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Defhero said:


> The point is, excuses are excuses. When you see a certain "Type" that rinses and repeats and all they have are excuses/blame game, then you have to wonder why. Why even get into a relationship? You know what most men want and if you take that away, then you kill 50% of what a grown man "needs". Yes, needs. So, stay single and stop your insanity of what you believe a relationship should be.....
> Of coarse when people fall into this, they need a place to turn and for this TAM is a good place to go to read, learn and see how many others are going through the same thing
> .
> Now for this, I do not get why 2 people fall in love with each other and that usually brings sparks and lust. Both show great attributes of wanting the same thing, especially sex towards each other and normally the feeling of, I can't get enough of your, is played by both. Then it follows with being taken off the market and the game begins or we will call it excuses begin. It's funny and sad to watch my ex wife do this to another person. The problem is, I feel sorry for the poor soul.
> ...


What are you really pushing here?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Not sure you can say that the majority of women do this. That's just your thoughts. 
Remember that on places like TAM we usually only get people with problems and more from men because women are more likely to talk to friends about this stuff. Even having said that we get a fair number of women here with husband's who aren't interested in sex with them, either because of porn or other reasons.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Mr.Married said:


> Well OP your brother might be in a garage relationship but if you believe the majority of relationships are as you wrote then I will have to make the assumption your relationship is garbage as well….. and not necessarily by the making of your wife.
> Your brother is where he is because he’s chicken chit to do anything about it and his wife knows it. That’s on him…..


After a divorce and not rushing into any relationship head 1st, I took my time, dating many and cutting them lose when the I love you came out, because I saw signs of the things mentioned above and yes, I have the best relationship I could ever desire now. "We", not just me, have respect of what it takes to stay this way. After 15 years, sex with my wife is like the 1st time, every time. My wife and I do not have excuses like most complain about. We have a mutual respect, that we both know what it takes, so the other one does not fall out of love. I met her at 35, so do the math.
My brother on the other hand is like so many, he does not have the balls to change his dynamic and will stay in a miserable (to a degree, he still has a life outside of marriage), sexless marriage. My brothers wife is all about, she won't give him sex what so ever, but threatens him if he cheats, that she will take everything. This is called being scared into submission, like so many others!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So you are married 15 years to your current wife but you are all hung up on the sexuality of your ex and who she is screwing at what frequency?

Don’t you think that sounds a little odd ?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

“It’s better to have girlfriends than wives.”

- Richard Cooper


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

“I’d rather have my wife”

Mr.Married


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

All the women I know never did want to believe that sex was the number one priority for their man. Sure, when you first meet and are dating that seems to be the pressing goal and we're all aware of that, but we assume that once you get it it's no longer going to be the driving force for your entire lifetime. We assume that family life and kids and everything that goes into having a family will be the number one priority, and many of us believe it should be. I think most women are very disillusioned when they find out that really the main thing their husband wants them for is sex. I do think that leads to a lot of divorces. I mean when you think about it, how sexy is it that a man is so concentrated on his own penis that everything else takes a backseat in his life? That is not something most women respect. 

Women are horny earlier because they're young and life is exciting and because they don't know you as well yet and haven't found out that's all you care about yet. They are filling in the blanks in what they know about you with who they hope you will be, and that is never, ever someone who puts their penis above everything else, for those of you who do. 

I don't know any women who put sex above everything else in their list of priorities.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

? how do you explain the sexless posts on here where the wife is being turned down. You can spout your red pill **** all you want that women do this and women do that but men also turn their spouses down for sex.

I will agree that it seeeemms like there are more posts from men that women but still there are plenty of posts from women.

Mostly though I think you shouldn't remarry. Then she is never trapped. ummm I mean you will never be trapped in a long term relationship again. It is perfectly fine to not remarry just be honest with the women you are dating tell them on the first date you are not looking to remarry.

ETA: oh and I'd definitely lose attraction/love/sex for anyone who put my vagina above all else


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> All the women I know never did want to believe that sex was the number one priority for their man. Sure, when you first meet and are dating that seems to be the pressing goal and we're all aware of that, but we assume that once you get it it's no longer going to be the driving force for your entire lifetime. We assume that family life and kids and everything that goes into having a family will be the number one priority, and many of us believe it should be. I think most women are very disillusioned when they find out that really the main thing their husband wants them for is sex. I do think that leads to a lot of divorces. I mean when you think about it, how sexy is it that a man is so concentrated on his own penis that everything else takes a backseat in his life? That is not something most women respect.
> 
> Women are horny earlier because they're young and life is exciting and because they don't know you as well yet and haven't found out that's all you care about yet. They are filling in the blanks in what they know about you with who they hope you will be, and that is never, ever someone who puts their penis above everything else, for those of you who do.
> 
> I don't know any women who put sex above everything else in their list of priorities.


Even though family and family life should be the number one priority, that doesn't mean sex should just go away completely. There are only so many hours in a day, so of course something has to give when you add chasing kids and keeping a house maintained on top of your marriage. That in no way is an excuse for sex to go away completely. Lots of couples keep their sex life alive throughout their marriage and all the challenges life throws at them. It isn't about wanting her just for sex, it is about not tossing out sex in order to have a family.

It seems like you are saying it is a binary situation. Once kids come into the picture, sex stops. I don't see it that way at all. You should work together to do everything the family needs and you should work together to find time for husband and wife. I don't think it is common at all on here to see a husband wanting sex above all. Sure there are some oblivious idiots that stumble on here, but most seem have issues that are not as clear as all he want is sex, everything else be damned.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Even though family and family life should be the number one priority, that doesn't mean sex should just go away completely. There are only so many hours in a day, so of course something has to give when you add chasing kids and keeping a house maintained on top of your marriage. That in no way is an excuse for sex to go away completely. Lots of couples keep their sex life alive throughout their marriage and all the challenges life throws at them. It isn't about wanting her just for sex, it is about not tossing out sex in order to have a family.
> 
> It seems like you are saying it is a binary situation. Once kids come into the picture, sex stops. I don't see it that way at all. You should work together to do everything the family needs and you should work together to find time for husband and wife. I don't think it is common at all on here to see a husband wanting sex above all. Sure there are some oblivious idiots that stumble on here, but most seem have issues that are not as clear as all he want is sex, everything else be damned.


I was responding to the guy who said it was the number one priority. I know it isn't for all guys.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I was responding to the guy who said it was the number one priority. I know it isn't for all guys.


Yeah the number one priority is a turn off. At least for me, and I have lots of sex with my husband. It goes back to meeting your partners needs. I’d like to be wanted for the whole of me not the hole in me. Do I want me partner to desire me yes. In the way expressed by OP, no.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> I’d like to be wanted for the whole of me not the hole in me.


TAM quote of 2022 so far.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Sex isn’t the number one priority for me. But good sex (hard to find) is important. If the good sex us there, it quickly becomes down the li at as other aspects become important.
I’ve been lucky enough to never have a bad physical relationship and never been with a woman that didn’t want it as much or more than me. I did date a gorgeous lady who after a 4 event night, I asked her if sex was important to her and she said she couldn’t care less, she could have sex or not, would give me all I wanted or if I didn’t want, was happy. That was our last date. She didn’t seem that into it, and she did indeed give me all I wanted and it was good……. I want to be desired physically and emotionally. Crap on a woman “giving” me sex. She can either want me or hit the road. The best sex I ever had in a relationship, she would get mad as hell if I was too tired (I do a lot of physical work and play and am honestly too tired once in a while.

I f do not think women are all that different from men. The main difference I see is a woman can flip the emotion switch and she’s done. A man finds that far more difficult.
Secondly, women are more likely than men to hide their true selves and hide their real character in order to rope a man into being a security blanket/ provider. Men do similar, but not as much.

As far as the sex thing, I don’t really have a lot of complaints. Some want lots of oral and other special treatment, but are selfish about giving, but I suspect that’s true of both genders.
Men that stay in relationships with no sex……. Everything is a choice. They don’t have to. Plenty of women want sex. Kids, jobs, physical exhaustion—— rarely interfered with sex in my relationships. 

I’ll have to vote against you on the sex thing about women OP. Only because I just haven’t experienced it—- and don’t want to.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

In my experience, there is a lot of “audition sex” and hyped sexuality for fear of losing a guy. But that’s not why I’m replying. 

While dating, we’d visit adult shops, watch porn, get books on sex. Two years after marriage, the switch flipped and she was done with that. Then kids came along and our sex life went even deeper into the classified world. Do we have sex? Yes, once a week or every other week in more of a FWB way. Meaning “you wanna” followed by her leaving 30-90 seconds after her orgasm. If she finishes first and is taking care of me, you can tell she’d rather be somewhere else. Has she said she loves our sex life… yes. She loves it so much she doesn’t ever wanna talk about it. I would love for it to be a great hobby we love talking about but she wants nothing to do with that but she loves sex . She prefers mind reading to intimacy. The same person who “could go three times a week” thinks sex is gross and crude outside of 20 minutes on Saturday mornings.

In my case, family of origin and past sexual issues REALLY affect your sexuality life going forward. My wife has a HUGE fear of being broke and alone. Growing up with a traumatic childhood means fear of intimacy, conflict avoidance, low self esteem, no criticism allowed, control and rule setting. She also had a sexual assault event. Did I know ANY of this before we got married… no. This was on purpose and took away my agency to make an informed decision about marriage. She’s alluded to knowing this but will never admit it. She also went from not wanting kids to becoming emotionally enmeshed with them. So much so, the only thing she DOESN’T want to do as a family is have sex. Nine times of ten she’ll want to do family stuff not “us” stuff. So I now think she just wants a dad for her kids not a husband.

To her, family is all important, more so than her and I. Why… because she had a ****ty one growing up. So while she’s doubling down on kids and work, we’re drifting apart and it doesn’t seem to bother her one bit. She essentially dates our kids. Companionship ranks high on the list for guys. Guess who’s doing stuff by myself or with friends… me. Because her comfort bubble is too small and if activities aren’t her idea or family-related she’s simply not interested. So for me I’m losing attraction because I have to get my needs met elsewhere and she needs a safety blanket. She said she’d never remarry If something happened to me but once the kids leave the loneliness would be unbearable and she’ll look for another guy.

I’m on HRT and I sadly have lost a lot desire for her. It’s desire that’s most attractive not body parts. Unless it’s her idea, she’s just not into it and it ends up being about her anyway. If I had sex with her the way she has with the me sometimes she’d be completely devastated. She used to complain that a few years ago our relationship was awesome. Why… because I was catering to her bubble. She does very little to connect with me while I try to connect in her level. For me that’s the #1 desire killer. I’ve also lost the attraction and the desire to pursue someone pursing our kids. 

There’s also this notion that one partner can unilaterally declare something like sex to not be important for the couple yet that doesn’t apply to anything else. I can’t just say a upgraded house or expensive vacation aren’t important, she’d summarily reject that thought. I know because I tried. 

I would lastly add a lot partners take their partner’s desire and sexuality for granted or become averse to it. Check out dead bedrooms on Reddit and nearly half the complaints are from women.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> ? how do you explain the sexless posts on here where the wife is being turned down. You can spout your red pill **** all you want that women do this and women do that but men also turn their spouses down for sex.
> 
> I will agree that it seeeemms like there are more posts from men that women but still there are plenty of posts from women.
> 
> ...


Statistically odds are I've turned down sex with W in the last 38 yrs but honestly I can't remember a time I did, ever.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Statistically odds are I've turned down sex with W in the last 38 yrs but honestly I can't remember a time I did, ever.


yes well your wife isn't on TAM complaining but we have several recent threads some still active about husbands who don't sex up their wives. I know my husband has turned me down as I have turned him down as well.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean when you think about it, how sexy is it that a man is so concentrated on his own penis that everything else takes a backseat in his life?


I imagine it is like food. If a person is starving, food is at top of the list. And when they get a little, contemplating the next opportunity becomes most important.

When meals are regular hunger fades into the background. 

In a healthy marriage, sex is part of the fabric, the glue that bonds a couple. Neither partner is concentrated on their genitals because they were together this morning and will be again together before too long. So the foundation is firm, everything else has something to build on.

At least that has been our exoerience. Intimacy has never been an issue because it has always been there. Vibrant, to this day (as in today).


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> I imagine it is like food. If a person is starving, food is at top of the list. And when they get a little, contemplating the next opportunity becomes most important.
> 
> When meals are regular hunger fades into the background.
> 
> ...


I think that's true to some extent, but I do think there are those who are just overly focused on it to begin with and enough is never enough.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I've never turned my wife down and I don't remember not being ready for sex ever... in 35 years. Sorry, I haven't really read the thread properly... I just thought I would say this...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> All the women I know never did want to believe that sex was the number one priority for their man. Sure, when you first meet and are dating that seems to be the pressing goal and we're all aware of that, but we assume that once you get it it's no longer going to be the driving force for your entire lifetime. We assume that family life and kids and everything that goes into having a family will be the number one priority, and many of us believe it should be. I think most women are very disillusioned when they find out that really the main thing their husband wants them for is sex. I do think that leads to a lot of divorces. I mean when you think about it, how sexy is it that a man is so concentrated on his own penis that everything else takes a backseat in his life? That is not something most women respect.
> 
> Women are horny earlier because they're young and life is exciting and because they don't know you as well yet and haven't found out that's all you care about yet. They are filling in the blanks in what they know about you with who they hope you will be, and that is never, ever someone who puts their penis above everything else, for those of you who do.
> 
> I don't know any women who put sex above everything else in their list of priorities.


How would a guy put his penis 100% first 100% of the time?

If it's too cold, or we're swimming in shark infested waters, or on the motorcycle at 100mph plus. There's three exceptions right there. Well 2.5 anyway, because on the motorcycle one has the testosterone flowing.

But, how often does a guy (some guys?) think about sex per hour? At least a few. Dozen.

Edited: maybe a new thread topic, how often do you think about sex in some shape or form? Maybe I'll start it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think most women are very disillusioned when they find out that really the main thing their husband wants them for is sex.


I think that's rather harsh. I would say sex for most men is one of the priorities but not the number one. It's when it becomes a non-priority that we see lots of divorces. It's a catch-22 situation... women are disappointed and start withholding and men become disillusioned, for the opposite reason.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How would a guy put his penis 100% first 100% of the time?
> 
> If it's too cold, or we're swimming in shark infested waters, or on the motorcycle at 100mph plus. There's three exceptions right there. Well 2.5 anyway, because on the motorcycle one has the testosterone flowing.
> 
> ...


I think there was one a while back, but it didn't even take off. Too busy doing maintenance, I figured.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I think that's rather harsh. I would say sex for most men is one of the priorities but not the number one. It's when it becomes a non-priority that we see lots of divorces. It's a catch-22 situation... women are disappointed and start withholding and men become disillusioned, for the opposite reason.


Well, you know, that's what I thought too, based on my real life experiences, but then on forums, as soon as sex slows down, men are bitter and ready to bail, so it MUST be their biggest priority on at least those guys. I mean every day on here, we see 20 year plus marriages a guy is willing to dispose of because not enough sex. 20 plus years of being cared for and bearing children and raising children and building a life together, but because the wife loses their sexy feelings, none of that mattered, so bye-bye. I obviously think it's irresponsible and shallow, and yes, women are shocked when they find out that's all it boils down to for the ones who do it. Shocked, appalled, and wonder how they wasted so many years without knowing the guy, sorry they ever did make love to him. And the male response? Women should do it whether they want to or not, whether they feel it or not, which to the women just feels like abuse. We've all had that conversation over and over here. It's never resolved. 

And even in real life, I heard the stories all my life about the 20-year wife being traded in for the younger model. Yep, as soon as there are life changes and body changes and it's not all fun and honeymoon and hard body, a lot of men bail, because that is how devoted they are to their penises. I do not know one woman who is even a fraction that focused on her vagina and pertinent surrounding area. 

And you use the word "withholding." Wow. She doesn't feel it. That's all. She's not a prostitute, so she isn't going to do it if she isn't feeling it, for whatever myriad of reasons, and I am here to say that no one should feel they have to have sex if they don't want to. Everyone, of course, has their scale of how much they do or don't want to and acquiesce within that scale, but no one should have to do it just because the other wants to do it no matter what else is going on or no matter if it causes pain or makes her feel like a, as another poster recently said, hole, as if that's the only part the man cares about. Because sometimes, sadly, that does seem to be the case. 

Then what happens after that varies depending on just how much of her life the wife sacrificed to bear and care for children, whether she ever had time to work, whether the man helped out and shared responsibilities, whether she has any money of her own, whether she has anyone she can turn to once she's discarded as being of no more value because the vagina isn't open for business anymore like it used to be before she began aging, before there were hormone drops, before there were aches and pains, before she lost romantic feelings for her husband the longer she knew him and thinks, I have done enough. Surely I have done enough. He doesn't have any more feelings for me than he does his left arm, so let him use it.

And sadly, the ones who feel they have to stay because of finances and being out of the work force do become prostitutes just to get a roof over their heads in the home they mostly built.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you know, that's what I thought too, based on my real life experiences, but then on forums, as soon as sex slows down, men are bitter and ready to bail, so it MUST be their biggest priority on at least those guys. I mean every day on here, we see 20 year plus marriages a guy is willing to dispose of because not enough sex. 20 plus years of being cared for and bearing children and raising children and building a life together, but because the wife loses their sexy feelings, none of that mattered, so bye-bye. I obviously think it's irresponsible and shallow, and yes, women are shocked when they find out that's all it boils down to for the ones who do it. Shocked, appalled, and wonder how they wasted so many years without knowing the guy, sorry they ever did make love to him. And the male response? Women should do it whether they want to or not, whether they feel it or not, which to the women just feels like abuse. We've all had that conversation over and over here. It's never resolved.
> 
> And even in real life, I heard the stories all my life about the 20-year wife being traded in for the younger model. Yep, as soon as there are life changes and body changes and it's not all fun and honeymoon and hard body, a lot of men bail, because that is how devoted they are to their penises. I do not know one woman who is even a fraction that focused on her vagina and pertinent surrounding area.
> 
> ...


that’s right, she “doesn’t feel it”. Well it’s a marriage and most men want a woman that feels something romantic for them. They kinda went in for that deal and said they were agreeing to monogamy. It’s not if she doesn’t want sex. It’s noneogamy. So I understand if she stops feeling it. But it’s kinda breaking the contract. Where are all these threads you speak of? All I read are the ones where the guy is doing everything possible to help her “feel it”, and doesn’t even get the slightest bit of intimacy.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you know, that's what I thought too, based on my real life experiences, but then on forums, as soon as sex slows down, men are bitter and ready to bail, so it MUST be their biggest priority on at least those guys. I mean every day on here, we see 20 year plus marriages a guy is willing to dispose of because not enough sex. 20 plus years of being cared for and bearing children and raising children and building a life together, but because the wife loses their sexy feelings, none of that mattered, so bye-bye. I obviously think it's irresponsible and shallow, and yes, women are shocked when they find out that's all it boils down to for the ones who do it. Shocked, appalled, and wonder how they wasted so many years without knowing the guy, sorry they ever did make love to him. And the male response? Women should do it whether they want to or not, whether they feel it or not, which to the women just feels like abuse. We've all had that conversation over and over here. It's never resolved.


I can't say I've seen every post that pops up, but I have never seen a man in a 20+ year marriage say they are going to bail on their marriage because of not enough sex. The sex is usually non-existent. I suppose that is "not enough" sex too, but we aren't talking about the husband wanting it 4-5x and only getting is 2-3x. Yeah guys do come here complaining about that, but they aren't on the verge of ending it because of a small disparity is sexual desire. Most of the guys that come here have been in a sexless marriage for 1 or more years, some many years. That to me is a valid reason to end the marriage. Since they have sat on the issue so long it is usually impossible to turn it around. No one should have sex if they don't want to, but at the same time no one should be surprised if no sex in a marriage is likely to lead to the end of the marriage.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Biggest priority, no. Essential component, maybe. It depends on the man.

It’s like a pizza without cheese. Some people prefer that (crazy people). I think it’s an essential component. Without it, the pizza is still perfectly edible but it’s not right.

Now let’s say the only way you could eat cheese was for it to be on that pizza and then one day poof! No more cheese for you!

That would suck. It might even make you see if perhaps there was another food out there that would have cheese on it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

By the way, since someone mentioned marriage vows, "to have and to hold" is a legal term most commonly used in conveyance of property. It is not a direct correlation to sex.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Biggest priority, no. Essential component, maybe. It depends on the man.
> 
> It’s like a pizza without cheese. Some people prefer that (crazy people). I think it’s an essential component. Without it, the pizza is still perfectly edible but it’s not right.
> 
> ...


Dude when talking about sex …. I don’t want to think about there being any cheese 🤢


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> By the way, since someone mentioned marriage vows, "to have and to hold" is a legal term most commonly used in conveyance of property. It is not a direct correlation to sex.


which is later interpreted as “to have and withhold”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And sadly, the ones who feel they have to stay because of finances and being out of the work force do become prostitutes just to get a roof over their heads in the home they mostly built.


And men today just cannot understand why so many women who grew up watching our mothers ***** themselves for room and board are reticent to put ourselves in that same vulnerable position.

That said, the point about changing the contract is valid. It is also true that there are women who pretend to like having sex with a man to get stability and trap him in marriage and he can't get away without losing half his stuff. Women aren't blameless here. My point is, neither sex has a monopoly on treating the other poorly.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I can't say I've seen every post that pops up, but I have never seen a man in a 20+ year marriage say they are going to bail on their marriage because of not enough sex. The sex is usually non-existent. I suppose that is "not enough" sex too, but we aren't talking about the husband wanting it 4-5x and only getting is 2-3x. Yeah guys do come here complaining about that, but they aren't on the verge of ending it because of a small disparity is sexual desire. Most of the guys that come here have been in a sexless marriage for 1 or more years, some many years. That to me is a valid reason to end the marriage. Since they have sat on the issue so long it is usually impossible to turn it around. No one should have sex if they don't want to, but at the same time no one should be surprised if no sex in a marriage is likely to lead to the end of the marriage.
> 
> Is just amazing that the withholding spouse then wonders why they get left.


The excerpt;

No one should have sex if they don't want to, but at the same time no one should be surprised if no sex in a marriage is likely to lead to the end of the marriage.

Is dead on. And the withholding spouse truly _wonders why they get left, that level of wonderment is amazing._


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The excerpt;
> 
> No one should have sex if they don't want to, but at the same time no one should be surprised if no sex in a marriage is likely to lead to the end of the marriage.
> 
> Is dead on. And the withholding spouse truly _wonders why they get left, that level of wonderment is amazing._


They're amazed because they can't conceive of someone thinking their penis is the most important thing to them because women are not like that. My feeling is that if they're married to someone like that they're better off on their own anyway.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> that’s right, she “doesn’t feel it”. Well it’s a marriage and most men want a woman that feels something romantic for them. They kinda went in for that deal and said they were agreeing to monogamy. It’s not if she doesn’t want sex. It’s noneogamy. So I understand if she stops feeling it. But it’s kinda breaking the contract. Where are all these threads you speak of? All I read are the ones where the guy is doing everything possible to help her “feel it”, and doesn’t even get the slightest bit of intimacy.


There's a new one today by a woman who's 50-year-old husband left her in hopes of finding a younger woman. It's all the time. It's the most common theme on this forum.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They're amazed because they can't conceive of someone thinking their penis is the most important thing to them because women are not like that. My feeling is that if they're married to someone like that they're better off on their own anyway.


I'd think it's not the guys penis, but that he would like to enjoy a mutually enjoyable romantic liaison with his W to help maintain the emotional closeness in his relationship. On a semi regular basis. How does that make him penis centered?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'd think it's not the guys penis, but that he would like to enjoy a mutually enjoyable romantic liaison with his W to help maintain the emotional closeness in his relationship. On a semi regular basis. How does that make him penis centered?


And you are claiming that is what the OP is talking about?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'd think it's not the guys penis, but that he would like to enjoy a mutually enjoyable romantic liaison with his W to help maintain the emotional closeness in his relationship. On a semi regular basis. How does that make him penis centered?


I don't believe that's always the case. Women want to believe that they care even more about them as a person than they care about just sex. When a man just wants you to do it anyway whether you feel like it or not, that is not a bonding moment. That is a penis moment.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't believe that's always the case. Women want to believe that they care even more about them as a person than they care about just sex. When a man just wants you to do it anyway whether you feel like it or not, that is not a bonding moment. That is a penis moment.


I can't disagree with you on that. 
Just pointing out that's not always the case.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I can't disagree with you on that.
> Just pointing out that's not always the case.


Of course it's not always the case.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They're amazed because they can't conceive of someone thinking their penis is the most important thing to them because *women are not like that*.


IMO the threads on a forum like this in no way prove the rule about anything. The people writing threads complaining are those with a complaint they are looking for some help with. To make a blanket statement that "women" are not like that is generalizing to an entire gender based on anecdotal evidence. I read plenty of threads on here where the post menopausal wife gets the hots for a much younger man and ditches the old boy that has been paying the bills for 20, 30, 40 years. So I assume that for those women getting a tingle in their drawers is the most important thing for them. These are no more ALL women, any more than the men posting about looking to leave because their wife of decades has straight up told them sex is off of the table and the husband needs to just take care of himself.

My life's observation is that neither gender has a monopoly on treating their partner of decades horribly, usually because they have what they believe is a captive victim they can abuse without consequence.

I am blessed to have married a woman who was born and raised in a culture with different priorities than the norm in the developed west. She has been the light in my life for a very long time, and she tells me constantly I have been the light in hers too. Age and/or illness, might someday stop the sexual relationship. But win lose or draw we are together until I close my eyes for the last time.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Well let’s substitute “working” for sex.

TBH there are hundreds of thousands of women who have dumped guys they thought were losers because they didn’t feel like making something of themselves or could be good provider. And found an upgrades. 

She dumps him for over this and it’s “you go girl.” 

He dumps her because because she lost any interest in sex and it’s “mmm girl that guy’s an a-hole.”


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Wow, there is so much to digest… I will reply tomorrow… in the meantime I’m in bed on my own… actually, with my lonely penis… and he (it?) doesn’t seem to understand… 😀 apologies for the silliness… keeps the depression away…


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They're amazed because they can't conceive of someone thinking their penis is the most important thing to them because women are not like that. My feeling is that if they're married to someone like that they're better off on their own anyway.


My wife and I were very close to another couple. The husband and I were in the same platoon in the Army and we lived in the same building. Our wives were great friends. We did everything together. We both ended up having a boy and a girl. They were a very happy couple. I know the guy wasn't an a-hole and the wife wasn't some ***** on wheels. I don't know how it happened, but when the youngest kid was around 15 they stopped having sex. They got along great, but no sex.That went on for about 5 years. Finally the husband told her he didn't want to live like roommates, he wanted a wife. She didn't want to work on it, so they divorced. They were equals as far as income goes BTW.

He left because of sex, but that doesn't sound like a man that put his penis first. He just thought sex was supposed to be part of a marriage. They just became friends and roommates, but he wanted a wife. If a man believes that sex is an integral part of marriage and leaves due to no sex, is he putting his penis above all, regardless of the details of the situation?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife and I were very close to another couple. The husband and I were in the same platoon in the Army and we lived in the same building. Our wives were great friends. We did everything together. We both ended up having a boy and a girl. They were a very happy couple. I know the guy wasn't an a-hole and the wife wasn't some *** on wheels. I don't know how it happened, but when the youngest kid was around 15 they stopped having sex. They got along great, but no sex.That went on for about 5 years. Finally the husband told her he didn't want to live like roommates, he wanted a wife. She didn't want to work on it, so they divorced. They were equals as far as income goes BTW.
> 
> He left because of sex, but that doesn't sound like a man that put his penis first. He just thought sex was supposed to be part of a marriage. They just became friends and roommates, but he wanted a wife. If a man believes that sex is an integral part of marriage and leaves due to no sex, is he putting his penis above all, regardless of the details of the situation?


Sure seems like it to me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If a man believes that sex is an integral part of marriage and leaves due to no sex, is he putting his penis above all, regardless of the details of the situation?


Not in my mind. I mean if you have maintained yourself to a high standard and treat your wife properly and she doesn’t have a medical problem then the only real explanation is that she doesn’t want you sexually or is just being lazy.

Either way, you made a commitment to her of sexual exclusivity and if she’s not participating in that then IMO a replacement is worth considering. I know I did.

Would I have liked one of those 100 women lining up for me as much as her? Dunno… in any case it was her thing to figure out. I spent months making sure I left no stone unturned but it turns out as she said it wasn’t a priority for her at all and she never thought about it.

So think about it then and decide what you want to do.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me.


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## SGr (Mar 19, 2015)

aaarghdub said:


> In my experience, there is a lot of “audition sex” and hyped sexuality for fear of losing a guy. But that’s not why I’m replying.
> 
> While dating, we’d visit adult shops, watch porn, get books on sex. Two years after marriage, the switch flipped and she was done with that. Then kids came along and our sex life went even deeper into the classified world. Do we have sex? Yes, once a week or every other week in more of a FWB way. Meaning “you wanna” followed by her leaving 30-90 seconds after her orgasm. If she finishes first and is taking care of me, you can tell she’d rather be somewhere else. Has she said she loves our sex life… yes. She loves it so much she doesn’t ever wanna talk about it. I would love for it to be a great hobby we love talking about but she wants nothing to do with that but she loves sex . She prefers mind reading to intimacy. The same person who “could go three times a week” thinks sex is gross and crude outside of 20 minutes on Saturday mornings.
> 
> ...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Wanting to talk about sex, what is up with that? What exactly are you wanting to hear? Serious question.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@DownByTheRiver Have you ever broken it off with man that you no longer had sexual attraction for?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not in my mind. I mean if you have maintained yourself to a high standard and treat your wife properly and she doesn’t have a medical problem then the only real explanation is that she doesn’t want you sexually or is just being lazy.
> 
> Either way, you made a commitment to her of sexual exclusivity and if she’s not participating in that then IMO a replacement is worth considering. I know I did.
> 
> ...


I think the conflict between the sexes is that women don't love you for sexual reasons. They love you because they really want to love someone, build a life, the whole package. And that's what they assume they're getting in return. But sometimes that isn't the case. That really comes as a shock to most women. I guess it's human nature to assume that they breadth and depth of love you feel is what you'll get back, and not just pertaining to sex. It's a terrible shock and disillusion when you find out otherwise. Women so badly want to believe you love them and their personalities and everything they do as a whole person. It's just not always the case. 

Women are often loathe to see the truth, even when a man tells it to them. Like a woman I know, her husband told her a long time ago if she divorced him (he didn't help out with anything or the kids), he would just move out of the country and he'd never see her or the kids again, no big deal to him. She didn't believe him. Now they are divorcing and he's repeated that threat, and it just broke her heart. She can't believe she married such a cold person. But she did. 

Some women are so good hearted that they cannot imagine that it's not reciprocated and that their mate may have only one or two reasons for being with them, neither of which has to do with loving them for who they are inside.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @DownByTheRiver Have you ever broken it off with man that you no longer had sexual attraction for?


Yes, but not a long-term relationship. Just more or less dating, so just quit seeing someone once I got bored in any aspect, and only once was that aspect sex. That was the one who started reeking of liquor because he was such an alcoholic. I enjoyed the sex, but he just got too pickled for too long. 

The other instance that even came close was a longer term more serious relationship, but he had been a friend for a long time and I couldn't get used to being more. The sex was okay but I just wasn't interested in him that way. So the sex was proficient. I got off, he got off, but masturbating would have been about the same, because I wasn't feeling more than friendship for him. We just didn't need to be together, that's all. He insisted.

But no, I didn't leave him because of sex. He was going through a divorce and his ex was taking up a lot of his time, as they will during divorce, and I really just used that as an excuse to get out of it. I did find out a couple of decades later he was seeing this other woman out of state at the same time, even after telling me he chose me over her (she'd been after him aggressively while he was married). I knew him from working together and we were in the same close crowd. I knew his wife as well. She cheated on him, supposedly, is why suddenly they divorced, but who really knows. 

Anyway, he wasted no time bringing the woman from out of state down (he had followed me to my new apartment and moved in a few doors down after I told him no to moving in). And they married pretty soon, I guess, after the divorce was final. They are still married. I really cared about him as a friend, but I thank my lucky stars I had the oomph to break it off because later, I found out he and his wife were going to swingers clubs and porking random middle-aged couples. Ew, ew.

You should understand that I am not talking about me personally, but the right of anyone not to have sex if they don't want to. I have been single and do what I want, but even single, in addition to times when I was rabidly horny, I have experienced times when I didn't feel sexy, times when there was something going on with my body, times when someone's words or actions were a huge turnoff, and a general decline in sexuality as I grow older. But I was quite active sexually in younger years. This isn't a personal problem of mine. I have always known, though, that I would get bored of having sex with the same person over an undetermined amount of years eventually. I like the excitement more than the contentment, but that's just me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think it’s one of those love language things. If you’re a physical touch person and you’re not getting it then no matter how great that person is otherwise they’re not doing what you need.

In my brain romantic relationship = sexual relationship. I think my tune will change as I get older. My parents are about 80 now and neither one can go according to my TMI mom, but she is not happy about it. She describes it as a “just companion” thing and something is missing she expects to be there and she’s a lady.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think it’s one of those love language things. If you’re a physical touch person and you’re not getting it then no matter how great that person is otherwise they’re not doing what you need.
> 
> In my brain romantic relationship = sexual relationship. I think my tune will change as I get older. My parents are about 80 now and neither one can go according to my TMI mom, but she is not happy about it. She describes it as a “just companion” thing and something is missing she expects to be there and she’s a lady.


Not sure I buy into all the "love language" stuff, but assuming it's true, then "touch" people need to marry another "touch" person and see how that goes. It would be curious to see if there is a married couple on here both of whom consider themselves love language "touch," but I don't recall seeing one like that. But I skip a lot of that stuff.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not sure I buy into all the "love language" stuff, but assuming it's true, then "touch" people need to marry another "touch" person and see how that goes. It would be curious to see if there is a married couple on here both of whom consider themselves love language "touch," but I don't recall seeing one like that. But I skip a lot of that stuff.


I don’t remember one either. I found the book itself to be annoying to read so I stopped reading it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t remember one either. I found the book itself to be annoying to read so I stopped reading it.


I took one of the little online tests about it and I didn't seem to have one predominant love language but about three out of the five or whatever it was. I was strong on service, but I never once had a bf who did that or was handy in the least. They were mainly creative brained that I was attracted to except one. He should have known how to do a few things since he worked at home Depot once, but he showed no inclination that way at all.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you know, that's what I thought too, based on my real life experiences, but then on forums, as soon as sex slows down, men are bitter and ready to bail, so it MUST be their biggest priority on at least those guys. I mean every day on here, we see 20 year plus marriages a guy is willing to dispose of because not enough sex. 20 plus years of being cared for and bearing children and raising children and building a life together, but because the wife loses their sexy feelings, none of that mattered, so bye-bye. I obviously think it's irresponsible and shallow, and yes, women are shocked when they find out that's all it boils down to for the ones who do it. Shocked, appalled, and wonder how they wasted so many years without knowing the guy, sorry they ever did make love to him. And the male response? Women should do it whether they want to or not, whether they feel it or not, which to the women just feels like abuse. We've all had that conversation over and over here. It's never resolved.
> 
> And even in real life, I heard the stories all my life about the 20-year wife being traded in for the younger model. Yep, as soon as there are life changes and body changes and it's not all fun and honeymoon and hard body, a lot of men bail, because that is how devoted they are to their penises. I do not know one woman who is even a fraction that focused on her vagina and pertinent surrounding area.
> 
> ...


First off let's keep in mind that statistically it is women that are leaving the men. By some statistics it is as much as 80% of divorces are by the women so your assertion that legions of men are leaving their middle aged wives is not the least bit supported by the divorce statistics. 

I can't speak for all men but I assume that for many men, in order to remain in a sexually exclusive relationship, the sexuality is a critical component and a deal breaker if it is not there. 

By critical component, that means if that component is not there, the relationship breaks down. That does not mean that it is the only criteria and it doesn't even mean that it is necessarily the number one criteria. It means that it is an important enough criteria that if it is not there, then the relationship will likely flounder. 

Also, as a 58 year old man that has been married for over 26 years, I doubt if large numbers of men are leaving their middle age wives because they've put on 10lbs or because they've gotten wrinkles here and some bulges there. And I doubt if many normal, average, decent men are leaving their wives because the sex has slowed to once a week or so or even that it has fallen into a routine and they aren't swinging from the chandeliers anymore. 

I'm willing to bet that the men that leave their wives (which statistically is only about 20% in the first place and a good number of those is going to be due to the wife cheating) that their wives have basically stopped touching them at all or have come right out and said that they no longer want to have a sex life with them. 

Now if a guy's wife has basically ended their sex life unilaterally and he does not want to remain celibate for the rest of his days and so he dissolves the marriage and he is able to attract a younger and more sexually interested woman, well yeah duh, why wouldn't he????? 

But to declare that men are leaving their loving and sexually active wives for younger women to appease their sexual urges is just simply not supported by the statistics. 

And also let's not use children to further denigrate men because again, it is typically the women that are wanting the children. Women don't "give" men children. It's often the women that are wanting the house and children in the first place and are the price of admission that men pay to be with that particular woman. 

Yes, yes, yes there are some men that sincerely want children. But for every one of those there are untold numbers of other men that are either ambiguous at best and are just sleepwalking through life and are going along with it, to guys that actually don't want them but figure they'll never get a steady partner without them. 

And even in cases of mutual desire for children, the arrival of said children often marks the end of the sexual relationship for a good number of couples...... again, perpetuated by the woman most times. 

So blaming men's penises for all of this is sorely misplaced.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Please. Hell yeah they leave them after they find out what they're really like.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yeah the number one priority is a turn off. At least for me, and I have lots of sex with my husband. It goes back to meeting your partners needs. I’d like to be wanted for the whole of me not the hole in me. Do I want me partner to desire me yes. In the way expressed by OP, no.


What women know and some don't know is, sex is on a mans mind almost 12 hours a day, min and that is everyday.. We can't turn it off and the more we are deprived from it, the more we want it. Doesn't matter if it is 2 years into the relationship or 20 years into the relationship. Trust, the woman can not alter it, change it or stop it. 
Meeting your partners needs and it all has to do with respect, respect, respect. Wants that respect is lost, it is usually downhill from there. 
I too am happily married and sex is not a problem for either of us. Even though sometimes it might be a quicky, but genuinely it is about being 1 and for both, it is about knowing my partner is satisfied, not me and YES, she feels the same. We are both 50 and last kid moved out this year. 
I agree and that is what the speech and debate is about on this highly controversial discussion. Why are so many relationships (not just men) are being neglected in the intimacy department, when most started with it? 
Other than these forums, my brother is going through this and has been for the past 5 years. He loves his wife. His kids are gone now and he will not do anything about it, as in leaving, because my sister-n-law will not budge. She threatens him to destroy his life, if he cheats. It's a real problem, just read these forums....


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Statistically odds are I've turned down sex with W in the last 38 yrs but honestly I can't remember a time I did, ever.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Anastasia6 said:


> And you are claiming that is what the OP is talking about?


Penis centered, now that is funny. Thank You. 
Are these people blind or have they ever heard? A man thinks with the wrong head and women are too emotional.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What are you really pushing here?


If you are going to get married, then learn what it takes to have a forever marriage and it is not by neglecting and the good old saying - you should just understand, especially now we are married and there are children. 
Love, respect and commitment. It is not just for the 1st year, it is for as long as 2 people want to stay commited and don't want to lose each other. A sexless marriage is none of these. So many people are settling for this and that is not healthy. Changes the meaning and scares the heck out of what use to be the norm. Again, is it an excuse, or does the one partner just not care. 
For the one's who do this to their parnter will say, they care and also would be angry if their partner left or especially if they cheated. So, where is this fair to the partner, who loves their spouse, but is denied and deprived on what started the relationship?
Read the headline and then read the end. It says speech and debate for this growing problem, not speech and let show anger, lol.
Most will get defensive, specially when it is the person doing this and has an excuse! But the others, who are actually going through this, it helps to read and learn from others. 
I even now have my brother reading these, so he knows he is not alone!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you know, that's what I thought too, based on my real life experiences, but then on forums, as soon as sex slows down, men are bitter and ready to bail, so it MUST be their biggest priority on at least those guys. I mean every day on here, we see 20 year plus marriages a guy is willing to dispose of because not enough sex. 20 plus years of being cared for and bearing children and raising children and building a life together, but because the wife loses their sexy feelings, none of that mattered, so bye-bye. I obviously think it's irresponsible and shallow, and yes, women are shocked when they find out that's all it boils down to for the ones who do it. Shocked, appalled, and wonder how they wasted so many years without knowing the guy, sorry they ever did make love to him. And the male response? Women should do it whether they want to or not, whether they feel it or not, which to the women just feels like abuse. We've all had that conversation over and over here. It's never resolved.
> 
> And even in real life, I heard the stories all my life about the 20-year wife being traded in for the younger model. Yep, as soon as there are life changes and body changes and it's not all fun and honeymoon and hard body, a lot of men bail, because that is how devoted they are to their penises. I do not know one woman who is even a fraction that focused on her vagina and pertinent surrounding area.
> 
> ...


I'm back...  I have read only the above, nothing else... and I must say I totally agree with you. In my case, when sex became a problem, I did want to divorce. But then we compromised to twice/month, which is not a lot, but it was enough for me because I did not want to divorce someone whom I grew up with, the mother of my children. So, I accepted the reality and carried on. Unfortunately, 10 years later I found out she did it to keep the family together. As you said, she probably got disillusioned with me. Fair enough. The only problem is that she didn't voice this to me (I guess because of her mental issues) and I wasn't smart enough to understand, I wasn't mature and I was d!ck-centred, that's true. So we are where we are now.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would like to add that, for men, it's not just "sex", but the intimacy, the closeness and the connection that come with it. I tried to explain this to my wife, but she didn't understand it. I wouldn't say it's only our penises talking. Of course, there's some truth in that too (as I said above)...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I would like to add that, for men, it's not just "sex", but the intimacy, the closeness and the connection that come with it. I tried to explain this to my wife, but she didn't understand it. I wouldn't say it's only our penises talking. Of course, there's some truth in that too (as I said above)...


The reason that didn't compute with her is because although you're sincere that you missed the intimacy, pressing for sex when someone isn't feeling it is not going to be a bonding moment. And also because intimacy, feeling close and connected, comes from other things all throughout the day if it's there at all and isn't something that's restricted to sex. And if it's not there throughout the day, it's not going to appear just because sex happens.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Defhero said:


> What women know and some don't know is, sex is on a mans mind almost 12 hours a day, min and that is everyday.. We can't turn it off and the more we are deprived from it, the more we want it. Doesn't matter if it is 2 years into the relationship or 20 years into the relationship. Trust, the woman can not alter it, change it or stop it.


By the same token, my wife said most women spend a lot of mental energy worrying about how they compare to other women. Bodies, clothes, kids, lifestyles, vacations, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The reason that didn't compute with her is because although you're sincere that you missed the intimacy, pressing for sex when someone isn't feeling it is not going to be a bonding moment. And also because intimacy, feeling close and connected, comes from other things all throughout the day if it's there at all and isn't something that's restricted to sex. And if it's not there throughout the day, it's not going to appear just because sex happens.


The other things were there, and it was fine, but we were not having sex. She didn't really tell me why or her feelings and I'm not a mind reader. I do agree I put pressure on her and made things worse. She said we are 50/50 to blame, so I guess she knows she played a big role in this too. I agree I didn't behave like a loving husband should have and I regret this to this day. But it's too late.

Generally speaking, I did accept a lot less sex to remain in the marriage and I think most men would do that. I was happy with once a month. But not a totally sexless marriage. Maybe not accepting a totally sexless marriage is not ok with you either?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Please. Hell yeah they leave them after they find out what they're really like.


Well and all this talk on this thread about "respect," but it's one-sided. Actions speak louder than words. 

The sad truth is, if everyone would just follow the Golden Rule in their marriage, there would be WAY fewer divorces.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The reason that didn't compute with her is because although you're sincere that you missed the intimacy, pressing for sex when someone isn't feeling it is not going to be a bonding moment. And also because intimacy, feeling close and connected, comes from other things all throughout the day if it's there at all and isn't something that's restricted to sex. And if it's not there throughout the day, it's not going to appear just because sex happens.


It's hard to be turned on by someone you know has zero respect for you. I know my ex-fiancé went from hot to not in a flash when I figured out who he really was. Women also want respect. "Men want respect, women want love" may be Biblical but it's not factual. Women want respect too, and based on what I've read on here, men also want love. Well, some men.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's hard to be turned on by someone you know has zero respect for you. I know my ex-fiancé went from hot to not in a flash when I figured out who he really was. Women also want respect. "Men want respect, women want love" may be Biblical but it's not factual. Women want respect too, and based on what I've read on here, men also want love. Well, some men.


I actually believe that you don't truly love someone if you don't respect them too.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> The other things were there, and it was fine, but we were not having sex. She didn't really tell me why or her feelings and I'm not a mind reader. I do agree I put pressure on her and made things worse. She said we are 50/50 to blame, so I guess she knows she played a big role in this too. I agree I didn't behave like a loving husband should have and I regret this to this day. But it's too late.
> 
> Generally speaking, I did accept a lot less sex to remain in the marriage and I think most men would do that. I was happy with once a month. But not a totally sexless marriage. Maybe not accepting a totally sexless marriage is not ok with you either?


I just think it would all depend on how well things were going otherwise. I would not be okay with a bunch of tension no matter what the reason for it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> The other things were there, and it was fine, but we were not having sex. She didn't really tell me why or her feelings and I'm not a mind reader. I do agree I put pressure on her and made things worse. She said we are 50/50 to blame, so I guess she knows she played a big role in this too. I agree I didn't behave like a loving husband should have and I regret this to this day. But it's too late.
> 
> Generally speaking, I did accept a lot less sex to remain in the marriage and I think most men would do that. I was happy with once a month. But not a totally sexless marriage. Maybe not accepting a totally sexless marriage is not ok with you either?


It sounds like you've done what you could to keep the marriage together and to keep a good relationship. Marriage sounds very hard to me and it would be hard to keep everything in perfect balance. You can't unring the bell but it sounds like you've done the best you can between the two of you to still have a good relationship and keep the home going.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just think it would all depend on how well things were going otherwise. I would not be okay with a bunch of tension no matter what the reason for it.


I don't really know. I can only tell my side of the story because she could never truly open up to me. But we were happy the first 20 years of our life together. Then the mental issues got worse. And I could not fix that and she would not fix herself.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I don't really know. I can only tell my side of the story because she could never truly open up to me. But we were happy the first 20 years of our life together. Then the mental issues got worse. And I could not fix that and she would not fix herself.


Well, you cannot always fix mental issues at all. It is aggravating if someone doesn't at least acknowledge there is an issue and try, though. But glad you had a great 20 years.


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