# Forced to Make a choice



## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

Hey all, 
I am currently in the middle of a complete mess and looking for some thoughts or suggestion. here is the back story:

I have a Daughter from a previous marriage, shes 12, and I have a step daughter who's 4 and I've raised since she was 8 months old, and I have been married to my wife for 2 years and together with her for almost 4. 

I live next door to my wife's parents, and my parents live 15 miles away in the next town. 

the issue started this summer when My 12 year old was sitting with my Father in law and they began to talk about Boys and Sending Naked Pictures, well push came to shove and we found out thru this conversation that my 12 year old sent Naked pictures to a boy in her class, we grounded her from her phone and left it at that. well about 6 weeks ago she told my Ex-wife that my Father in law asked to see her naked. I had confronted her about this and she says its true. she however never sent or showed him any pictures, my Wife got wind of this and immediately said my daughter is not allowed into our house. 

My wife has a very strong relationship with her father who in the past my father in law has cheated on his wife and taken my wife (his Daughter) to another woman's house when she was younger, left her in the car, so he could "Hang out" with another woman who wasn't her mother. 

My 12 year old has my mother and her mother wrapped around her fingers and has said before all of this ever went down that she doesn't like it our house because she has no friends over there and nothing to do. 

My wife freaked out on my mother who believes my Father in law did ask to see my daughter naked and both are freaking out on each other. 

well my wife kicked me out because she says her dad never said that and telling me i need to cut all ties with my mother and my Daughter. my Mother is telling me to cut ties with my wife and step child, i am caught in the middle.

New development: My father in law says he got a letter from the Sheriff's department from the Parents and grandparents of my 12 year old saying they want his statement. I did confront both my ex wife and my Mother and both denied going to law enforcement. so i am thinking he made that story up because it was the day after my wife and my mother got into it. this may be his way to manipulate his daughter. 

I am very lost and there are so many factors, please any advise will help. 

PS i am religious person, and i am nose deep into the bible, but i am still lost.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Wow............

This is potentially a very serious matter.

Some of the things you say though are unclear.

1. So, i'm taking it your daughter lives with her mother (your ex wife) and your current wife doesn't want your daughter around?

2. Why would your FIL say that the police are investigating? Who alerted the police to this?

3. Your current wife kicked you out of your own house????? She can't do this legally. She can't kick you out of where you live without a court order.

4. "My father in law says he got a letter from the Sheriff's department from the Parents and grandparents of my 12 year old saying they want his statement. I did confront both my ex wife and my Mother and both denied going to law enforcement. so i am thinking he made that story up because it was the day after my wife and my mother got into it. this may be his way to manipulate his daughter."

This whole part doesn't make any sense. Please explain.

My initial reaction is that your wife is in denial. This must be treated seriously. Go to the police and verify if the letter is real, and why they have reason to investigate.

It is possible that your daughter is fantasizing and a 'bad little girl', however, if true, then your FIL is a pervert.

and regardless, you must keep your daughter away from FIL!!!!


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

Ask yourself one question.

What is best for my daughter?

Do that.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

I would not ignore this problem as your wife suggests. You must follow up. Talk to the police about the complaint and what they've found out. Your father in-law had an affair before and left his daughter (your wife) in the car to wait while he socializes with his mistress. He is an irresponsible man.

I definitely would not bring my daughter around with the problem that you have at hand. You pointed out that your daughter has your ex-wife and mother around her finger. Do not let this deter you from protecting your own child from any predator. Think of what is best for your child.

As for your wife, she is definitely in denial and not a good way. She does not care about the welfare of your daughter, even at the point of endangerment. I would seriously look at the character of your wife. This can be a turning point in your marriage.

Sorry that you are here.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

My 12 year old lives with my Ex wife yes, 

My Wife has a very close relationship with her father, and if he is ever in trouble she is right beside him, whether its right or wrong. My FIL called my wife yesterday and told her about this letter, she said she didn't physically see the letter from law enforcement, and I know that no one has gone to law enforcement from my family, my best guess is he is trying to make it seem like my Family is getting him in trouble to make him look better to my wife. 

my 12 year old has no rules at her mothers house or my mothers house, when she is in my care she has rules and specific time schedules to uphold thus why she doesn't like to come to my house. 


its hard to say if my FIL did actually ask for the pics, because my 12 year old's story keeps changing. there's reasonable doubt, but that's not what i am hung on, im hung on the fact my Wife and my Mother say i need to choose.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

bobzitt said:


> My 12 year old lives with my Ex wife yes,
> 
> My Wife has a very close relationship with her father, and if he is ever in trouble she is right beside him, whether its right or wrong. My FIL called my wife yesterday and told her about this letter, she said she didn't physically see the letter from law enforcement, and I know that no one has gone to law enforcement from my family, my best guess is he is trying to make it seem like my Family is getting him in trouble to make him look better to my wife.
> 
> ...


The day my first child was born, I felt that my #1 job in life is to be a father. 

To me, the choice would be obvious even if it hurts.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm sorry you are here.

What you should do is somewhat obvious but the implementation is hard.

First don't make anyone else's false choice. It's not a or b. It's what is right.

Choose your wife, your daughter and your step daughter. Make this explicitly clear. Do not accept a false choice of wife or daughter. Tell your wife you choose both and mean it. Ignore her comments saying "I don't agree" and "I'm sorry you see it that way" and "I will always chose my wife and I will always choose my children" and "I will always protects wife and children from predators".

Say these things and mean them. Leave your religion aside - it is not inconsistent with this. There is a time for praying and there is a time for acting like a strong man, father and husband. Again - this is consistent with all religions I am aware of.

REMOVE all toxic people from your life as part of your actions in keeping with your responsibilities as husband and father.

Move your children to another state - your temporary job, friends and financial situation are not even remotely important in this decision.

Your daughter - if she is lying to get out of your house will come clean if she has to move. Your parents will eventually understand if they are not toxic people.

If you ex wife has partial custody let her know you are doing this to protect D and I bet she will support it. You have to move far enough away to get D12 away from her toxic friends and FIL but be close enough to ExW toake custody work.

Then worry about resolving the toxic crap going on - at a safe distance.

Also file police reports yourself! If things get nasty before you can move get a restraining irder on FIL and the fily of the boy involved in the sexting. See a lawyer ASAP about protecting your kids!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bobzitt, tough spot you're in. If you didn't have the 4 yr old step daughter I'd say divorce and keep your 12 yr old safe. To me *it is that big of a deal*. The 4 yr old needs protecting too, but she isn't your flesh and blood which moves her down 1/2 peg in priority. Also, you can positively protect your 12 yr old by leaving. If you stay, you fail to protect her. Whether or not you stay, the 4 yr old is at risk. But I understand how impossible it feels to leave that 4 yr old.

It is quite possible that your 12 yr old made up a story for some reason. But I don't think you'll ever get proof positive one way or the other. So if it were me I'd err on the side of it being true. And I wouldn't pressure her to "tell me the truth now", because you still won't know if it is the truth.

One possibility is that your 12 yr old has already been molested by him, and she is telling the story in a way to bring up the topic in a way which seems less bad. I think I would have her see a good child psychologist, someone with a Ph.D., who is female, who specializes in child sex abuse. Even just a few sessions could help your daughter in many ways. If she hasn't been molested, she can still explore being assertive and self protective. If she has been molested, she can discuss it privately and get the help she needs now.

Child molesters don't just suddenly get that way, and they don't change either. If your wife's dad is a molester there is a good chance he molested his own kids, including your wife. Does she have any sisters? Female cousins? Those are also probable victims. Are there other grand-daughters or step grand-daughters of this guy?

Have you searched online to see if FIL is a registered sex offender?

My bottom line is I would never let FIL be alone even briefly with either the 12 yr old or the 4 yr old. Not ever. Not once. Not for a minute. CSA causes life long problems for the victim, and indeed causes problems for their families too. It just isn't worth the risk. I'd do anything for my kids to keep them safe, including leaving a good marriage. Having seen the damage brought to my wife's entire life from sex abuse, I'd do anything to prevent it from happening to my daughters.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

bobzitt said:


> My father in law says he got a letter from the Sheriff's department from the Parents and grandparents of my 12 year old saying they want his statement. I did confront both my ex wife and my Mother and both denied going to law enforcement. so i am thinking he made that story up because it was the day after my wife and my mother got into it. this may be his way to manipulate his daughter.


I seriously doubt the Sheriff would identify who made allegations or complaint. The Sheriff may have asked for a statement from him, but I believe that would be done in person not by letter, and would have not stated who made the complaint.

Intimidation and manipulation are central parts of child sex abuse. In fact it is my belief those factors are significant in the long term damage done to the victim. The other significant factor is parents or other trusted adults who don't believe or protect the child. The actual touching or looking are minor contributors to the long term damage, because the child doesn't understand sexuality. The context of the event, the mind games played by the perp, and the reactions (or lack of) by responsible adults are the big influences to how damaging the CSA is in the long run, imo.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

This is a tough one since you're not 100% positive your daughter is telling the truth. Have YOU had a sit-down with her about it? She's not too young to know that this could be a life-changer for your FIL. If she is telling the truth, she needs to be protected, and that means NO more contact with this man, and pressing charges if applicable. In my opinion, just making sure they are not alone in a room together is not enough because it will feel like you chose keeping the peace over protecting her. Believe me, I've been that 12 year old girl and I only recently (at age 42) identified this lack of protection as one of myriad reasons for my insecurity, but it's a big one nonetheless. Your action on this matter will have lasting effects for the rest of her life if she's telling the truth. And of course if she's not telling the truth, that will also have lasting effects. 

I guess what I'm personally trying to say is it's hard for me to give advice until you know for sure that she's telling the truth.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

If your wife is controlled by your FIL it is possible she is codependent or has other significant issues including abuse.

While terrible this might also mean you can also take charge and push FIL aside. If you are strong - and I mean seething strong which you should be - that is a strength that will show. Then your words will carry more weight as you will be single minded in your determination and W will realize she can not win and change your mind.

If you are not a strong man what I said might not make sense. I do not mean be bad to get or abusive - but it may seem abusive to you. In fact I mean act and speak strongly and with resolve. Think of john Wayne, Clint Eastwood, sean Connery, Vic morrow. These were my childhood role models. They were never abisive to women - in fact the opposite - but they did not accept BS, did not whine, did not argue stupid points, and only raised their voice to shut up people that tried to tell them something untrue, dishonest, or just plain wrong. 

I hope this makes sense.

I suspect this is what is needed here.

If I had an exW who was endangering my child I would give her one warning in case she didn't understand, then call child protective services if I felt my child was endangered by the environment. I would first contact a lawyer. And I would call in sick immediately and have plans a b and c ready by the end of the day.

This is strength that is needed and what women respect. And what ****roaches like FIL scurry away from.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

Thor - I agree with the Sheriff not saying who put the complaint in, it makes no sense to me that it was 24 hours after my wife and mother got into it, an of course my father in law knows all the details because my wife confides to him. 

as far as the sexual abuse, he has 2 daughters and my wife was sexually assaulted by a peer when she was younger and its still causing her issues to this day, i know the guy who did it and i can honestly say her dad never assaulted his daughters.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

Why was your father in law having a conversation with your daughter about sending naked pics to boys in the first place? Doesn't that send up red flags for you. That is soooo not his place.

Have you spoken to your daughter? I don't understand why you're speculating and guessing about things. Have a conversation with your daughter. Be supportive. Be ready to believe her. Do not go into it assuming she is lying make sure she knows you have her back.

Also, tell your FIL you want to see the letter he supposedly has. It's highly unlikely that any law enforcement agency would be investigating this without your knowledge. They would need to interview your daughter and they can't do that without parental knowledge. They would also most likely want to interview everyone else. If he is making crap up then he proves himself to be a liar. So what else is he lying about? Why is he pushing your wife so hard to pick sides if he's innocent? He's acting kinda guilty.

Bottom line, the risk to your daughter and your relationship with her is too high not to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one. Tell your wife that you love her but you are not going to abandon your daughter. Get to the bottom of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You cannot say what Ws father did or did not do!

Abuse happens. It's a fact. It doesn't come to light because abusers groom the victims and manipulate them. You will never know unless you have a magic wand and can get the victims to tell you what they can not tell themselves.

Stop this type of thinking. Assume the worst and protect against it. If it is not true no harm will come if it is true you will have saved the W and kids.

No one will judge a man harshly for taking strong measures to protect his family except toxic people, abusers, and people of low character.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Realize that the allegation has forever changed the family. Those kinds of words can never be taken back. The seeds of doubt will always be there about FIL. Family members will take sides, some who will never believe FIL is a molester, and others who will believe it possible.

You can not smooth this over. Lots of people are going to have hard feelings forever. So just accept that part of it, which frees you to do what is right for your daughter, wife, and step daughter.

The post above by TheTruthHurts is good, but my caution is unless your wife is 100% on board with never leaving the girls alone with her dad, then you can not protect them from FIL. You can be watchful when you are there, but if your wife is willing to leave them alone with her dad even for a few moments, they are unprotected.

We are good friends with a family where the wife was molested by her step-dad who is still married to her mom. Step-dad and mom live several states away, which makes it easier to control contact with our friends' kids. When step-dad and mom visit, our friends don't allow other kids in the neighborhood over, and they never ever left any of their kids alone with step-dad even for a second.

Our friends' sister and female cousins were also molested by this guy. Three of those women did not impose the same strict quarantine with their own daughters. Yup, the guy molested all those other little girls. Even though the women had themselves been molested by this guy, they did not see him as a serious threat to their own young girls. It didn't take much for him to find opportunities to molest.

So don't assume your wife will provide solid quarantine to protect the 12 and 4 yr olds from her dad.

If your wife was not molested, he may still be a molester. He may not molest his biological offspring, but he may have molested others. Your 12 yr old is a non-biological grand-daughter.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

thetruthhurts said:


> you cannot say what ws father did or did not do!
> 
> Abuse happens. It's a fact. It doesn't come to light because abusers groom the victims and manipulate them. You will never know unless you have a magic wand and can get the victims to tell you what they can not tell themselves.
> 
> ...



+1000


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

the hardest part is, my daughters time line keeps changing, and so does her story, also a week before this all happened she accused me of talking sexually in front of her, my Ex wife called screaming and yelling and i told her i never have spoken sexually around my daughters, that talk is for moms and dads, not kids. 

then to top things off, a few weeks before that, my 12 year old was set on not coming down to my house because she wanted to be a a friends house instead. she made up some lie to my exwife about my Wife being mean and locking her in a closet, there are so many angles i don't know how to handle all of this.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bobzitt said:


> the hardest part is, my daughters time line keeps changing, and so does her story, also a week before this all happened she accused me of talking sexually in front of her, my Ex wife called screaming and yelling and i told her i never have spoken sexually around my daughters, that talk is for moms and dads, not kids.
> 
> then to top things off, a few weeks before that, my 12 year old was set on not coming down to my house because she wanted to be a a friends house instead. she made up some lie to my exwife about my Wife being mean and locking her in a closet, there are so many angles i don't know how to handle all of this.


Get your daughter in counseling STAT. That's what you need to do.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

I agree with Counseling, she has an apt tomorrow with a child therapist, she has some underline issues from when her Mother and i got a divorce. and all of the new stuff needs addressed too. 

the hardest part is trying to get my daughter to be part of the family again when my wife wants nothing to do with her.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Whoa... Your daughter's claim that you were speaking inappropriately about sexual matters in her presence sheds a whole new light on this situation.

She clearly lied about you, she is likely lying about the FIL too.

And sending naked pictures to a boy from school is hugely inappropriate.

She needs some serious counseling, pronto. It's quite possible she has already been molested by someone (not necessarily the FIL) and is now acting out in sexually inappropriate ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You cannot say what Ws father did or did not do!
> 
> Abuse happens. It's a fact. It doesn't come to light because abusers groom the victims and manipulate them. You will never know unless you have a magic wand and can get the victims to tell you what they can not tell themselves.
> 
> ...


The McMartains agree 100% with you


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> And sending naked pictures to a boy from school is hugely inappropriate.


Also - the parents of the boy need to know that her picture is on the phone.

Like it or not, that's considered kiddie porn.

She and he can get in serious trouble over those pictures.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

bobzitt said:


> I agree with Counseling, she has an apt tomorrow with a child therapist, she has some underline issues from when her Mother and i got a divorce. and all of the new stuff needs addressed too.
> 
> the hardest part is trying to get my daughter to be part of the family again when my wife wants nothing to do with her.


OP, glad to hear that you are addressing this issue right away with your daughter with a child therapist. This will put your mind to rest as a caring and responsible father.

As for your wife and her attitude of not wanting your daughter to be part of your family and "wants nothing to do with her" is not acceptable by any adult standards. You are seeing a side of your wife that spouses do not want to see. That is, complete disregard of your responsibility to protect your children. You have no children with your wife. You need to take a hard look at your marriage as clearly, she does not want to address your own problem but expected you to raise her child from her previous marriage.

I would not want a spouse as selfish as yours.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I'd tell everyone that, as D12's father, you will get to the bottom of this. Then contact DSS and a counselor and immediately have this investigated. If it turns out she lied, that will come out. It may very well ruin her relationship with her step mother/step family but the girl needs help either way. At 12 she is vying for boys attention by way of nude photos - a need to be loved and needs attention, but not in the right way. She needs help.

If she lies about FIL, that is wrong and heinous to ruin someone's reputation. On the other hand if it were merely FIL asking why she was grounded and D12 told him and that was the extent of the conversation, nothing strange there. If he prodded her to see, that is creepy and dangerous.

Either way, hand it over to neutral parties. Whether she lied or not, her relationship with her FIL is over. Her relationship with her step mother could be salvaged with proper counseling. But she obviously needs her Dad right now whether it's to protect her from FIL or delve into what makes her think false accusations were appropriate OR the photos and sad way of garnering attention from boys.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I'd tell everyone that, as D12's father, you will get to the bottom of this. Then contact DSS and a counselor and immediately have this investigated. If it turns out she lied, that will come out. It may very well ruin her relationship with her step mother/step family but the girl needs help either way. At 12 she is vying for boys attention by way of nude photos - a need to be loved and needs attention, but not in the right way. She needs help.
> 
> If she lies about FIL, that is wrong and heinous to ruin someone's reputation. On the other hand if it were merely FIL asking why she was grounded and D12 told him and that was the extent of the conversation, nothing strange there. If he prodded her to see, that is creepy and dangerous.
> 
> Either way, hand it over to neutral parties. Whether she lied or not, her relationship with her FIL is over. Her relationship with her step mother could be salvaged with proper counseling. But she obviously needs her Dad right now whether it's to protect her from FIL or delve into what makes her think false accusations were appropriate OR the photos and sad way of garnering attention from boys.


Very well said!

No matter WHAT the actual problem ends up being, there obviously IS one and she needs help.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Since you know your 12 year old is capable of lying about you (talking sexually to her, locking her in the closet) then she has learned to manipulate using lies, so she can get her own way.


1. Do not be alone with your 12 year old anymore. Always have your W or another adult whom you trust will back you up whenever you speak with your daughter.

2. Get her to a child psychologist ASAP. Sending nude pictures at 12 years old is way out of line. She has already been exposed to inappropriate ideas, behaviors, etc. even if it was from other kids at school. Talking with grandpa about them also shows she has very poor boundaries with adult men. If she talked with you about it, as her father, you should have definitely gotten the closest female available involved immediately to protect yourself, and teach her about appropriate boundaries with men.

3. Your wife is unhealthy, defending her father when she knows his core ethics....unless he had some sort of epiphany and changed drastically from a cheater who brought his daughter around to a moral man. Could be your wife was sexually abused by her dad, or was otherwise shamed and compromised by his behavior, and in her own shame she wants your daughter to be quiet.

4. Go speak with your FIL (with an impartial witness) to find out what he will tell you. If you think he asked to see the pictures, you should call the sheriff yourself, if the sheriff isn't really involved already.

5. If your wife is protecting her pedofile father, and taking it out on your victim daughter, you may seriously consider D, and trying to get custody of your 4 year old step daughter, so she isn't also victimized.

6. I disagree with TruthHurts. Do pray, because God will give you an added measure of peace and courage to do the right thing. 

7. Hiding the truth, or letting people off the hook is not the right thing to do. Don't let other Christians at church or in your family convince you to sweep this under the rug. Remember that the Prophet Nathan confronted David about his evil actions with Bathsheba and about what David did to Uriah, and that it is written in the Bible for all to see forever. All the other dirty little details regarding David's sons and daughters are also written there for all to see and learn from. Keeping secrets isn't an example set by God. Do not be timid to find out the truth, and let the consequences come upon whomever needs to feel them. You want your daughter to get help if she was molested, or approached by her grandfather, and you want her to learn not to lie if she wasn't.

I will be praying for the truth to come out, and for justice to prevail. I feel for you. You have a long painful road ahead of you, if your daughter is behaving like this at 12. If your current wife and you can't get on the same page, you may need to "rethink your options" before you and she have a child together and are forever connected because of the child.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nynaeve said:


> Why was your father in law having a conversation with your daughter about sending naked pics to boys in the first place? Doesn't that send up red flags for you. That is soooo not his place.


Exactly.

OP, even if your daughter is lying (which _is_ possible, but you HAVE to take the commentary quoted above into consideration), there's no choice to be made here; if your wife is so unwilling to even listen to what your daughter is saying that she's demanding you have no contact w/ her in order to stay in your marriage, then you don't have any sort of marriage worth saving.

Get out now.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Early sexualization is a very very bad sign. In your shoes I would assume inappropriate sexual contact has occurred and get her help immediately. There is still time to help this little girl but I would not concern myself with truthfulness, timelines, stories etc. I would assume those are ways of a young mind to process abuse as a victim.

I agree though to have witnesses with you when in contact with her but let her know you unconditionally love her and don't judge her.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Exactly.
> 
> OP, even if your daughter is lying (which _is_ possible, but you HAVE to take the commentary quoted above into consideration), there's no choice to be made here; if your wife is so unwilling to even listen to what your daughter is saying that she's demanding you have no contact w/ her in order to stay in your marriage, then you don't have any sort of marriage worth saving.
> 
> Get out now.


To piggy back on your wife's attitude, are you SURE your daughter was lying about being locked in the closet by her?


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

SecondTime'Round - Honestly i am so lost with all of this, i can't say if it was true or false. it a hard thing to swallow when you realize your little girl needs help.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Your choice is to help your daughter....that is where you start....


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bobzitt said:


> SecondTime'Round - Honestly i am so lost with all of this, i can't say if it was true or false. it a hard thing to swallow when you realize your little girl needs help.


Big big hugs.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I agree with all the other posters' advice. I would also add that regardless of what happens with the allegations about your daughter, you cannot live with a wife who will suggest you can't have your young daughter in your home for whatever reason. That is not acceptable ever.

In addition, your current living arrangements are just a bad idea. I would never live that close to any family member (even the ones I really love). It just always causes problems. You need some healthy distance if you want to continue a relationship with your wife.

At the end of the day, your primary responsibility is to your daughter. Its unfortunate that you may have to make some very difficult choices here.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

OP you need to believe your child. You duty as her father is to protect her. You do that by believing her. She is just a child and is worried about hurting people. 

Your FIL knows how to manipulate his daughter to be in his corner. 

Your daughter needs you to take her side. Get the police involved because they can investigate this and make sure she tells the truth. What if he did something in the pass that she was uncomfortable about and that is why she is now acting out by sending naked photos to a boy. Abuse kids are sometimes highly sexualize due to their bad experiences. 

Why did you and your wife told your FIL about the photo incident. Certain things should only be kept between you three. It's not for the entire family's consumption. 

If I am your wife, I would keep my daughter far away from that man. Even if it means you don't get to see her. Please take the side of your child.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> OP you need to believe your child. You duty as her father is to protect her. You do that by believing her. She is just a child and is worried about hurting people.
> 
> If I am your wife, I would keep my daughter far away from that man. Even if it means you don't get to see her. Please take the side of your child.


No, he should not automatically believe everything his child says, as she has a track record of making up awful stories, including one regarding her own father (the OP). He has an obligation to do his best to help his daughter grow up, and his impact his rather limited because she does not live with him and does not want to visit him. 

If I am OP's current wife, I would also keep his biological daughter far away from my father to protect both the bio daughter and the accused father.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

By the way, if you've not already done so, you should probably either take your daughter's phone away from her or (at the very least) downgrade it to a model and plan that won't allow her to send pictures of herself via text.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

New Development today( 10/13/2015): I Called local Law enforcement (Sheriff's office) and asked about the Statement my FIL placed in yesterday (10/12/2015) I told them since the allegations are towards him from my daughter I should be able to have access to the report, they stated they have No calls or statements from my FIL who's been telling my wife that my 12 year old shouldn't be around since law enforcement said not to, i asked the investigating officer if my FIL put a statement in and he said he didn't file or call my FIL for a statement, so it looks like to me he is lying to my wife and his family. now im completely lost.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

That sounds to me like he is trying to find out who is saying what about him. I tend to be generous when assigning motivations to people, but in this situation I find it worrisome.

Has anyone made any specific complaints to the police about FIL? Maybe I missed that part but I don't recall it being said an official report was filed about FIL.

Also for clarification, did your daughter say FIL asked to see the naked pictures or did he ask to see her naked?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

brooklynAnn said:


> OP you need to believe your child. You duty as her father is to protect her.
> .
> .
> .
> Please take the side of your child.


I agree with this even though there is some reason to believe she made the story up. Why? Because after having read quite a bit on the topic of CSA it is clear to me that much or even the majority of the long term damage comes from the child not being believed.

Sometimes it is a parent or trusted adult who tells the kid to stfu. Sometimes adults tell the kid they will be shunned and unloveable if they tell anyone. Sometimes the adults are simply unbelieving that the accused could do that, so they tell the child to stop lying. Sometimes the child tries indirectly to tell, and those efforts can even be quite large, but for whatever reason the adults don't recognize the signs.

The child ends up feeling worthless. The child grows up believing they will not be loved if the truth were found out. They feel somehow responsible for what happened, which makes them feel terribly guilty and low.

Counter intuitively, the child frequently becomes hyper sexualized. They can start early with sexual activity. They learn the incorrect lesson that they are valued for their body and for sex, not for who they really are.

As a parent I would err on the side of taking action as if what my child said was true. If it turns out not to be true, _it might still be true_. I would not punish her if she recants the story.

The worst case if you do this is you blow up your marriage and any relationship with FIL. But if you don't do this, and if it is true, then your daughter could be deeply damaged for life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I agree with all the other posters' advice. I would also add that regardless of what happens with the allegations about your daughter, you cannot live with a wife who will suggest you can't have your young daughter in your home for whatever reason. That is not acceptable ever.


I'm sorry, but I highly disagree here.

This pre-teen made allegations that her own father spoke sexually inappropriately to her and that her step-mother locked her in a closet. Had people actually believed either of those allegations, there could have been serious social and legal consequences.

Then, in her latest bid for attention, this adolescent sends another kid some nude pics and accuses her step-grandfather of inappropriate behavior.

She doesn't want to be at her fathers house because she doesn't like it there and it seems she has a proven track record of lying in order to manipulate the adults into giving her what she wants.


From the step mother's point of view, this kid poses a real threat to her, her husband, her father, and her own child. She, her husband, and her father could be arrested based on what this kid claims. Her child could be removed from her care if CPS acted first and asked questions later. I can't blame her for saying she doesn't want this kid in her home for the foreseeable future.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

Thor said:


> That sounds to me like he is trying to find out who is saying what about him. I tend to be generous when assigning motivations to people, but in this situation I find it worrisome.
> 
> Has anyone made any specific complaints to the police about FIL? Maybe I missed that part but I don't recall it being said an official report was filed about FIL.
> 
> Also for clarification, did your daughter say FIL asked to see the naked pictures or did he ask to see her naked?


My Ex wife put a complaint in to the Sheriffs office but they refused to do anything, I never once told my wife about this nor told anyone else about the complaint, my FIL tried to say it was 2 days ago the complaint was placed in, today when i called the Sheriff's i was told no such complaint was filed nor was a statement filed.


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

bobzitt said:


> the hardest part is, my daughters time line keeps changing, and so does her story, also a week before this all happened she accused me of talking sexually in front of her, my Ex wife called screaming and yelling and i told her i never have spoken sexually around my daughters, that talk is for moms and dads, not kids.
> 
> then to top things off, a few weeks before that, my 12 year old was set on not coming down to my house because she wanted to be a a friends house instead. she made up some lie to my exwife about my Wife being mean and locking her in a closet, there are so many angles i don't know how to handle all of this.


Your daughter is a liar and a troublemaker. 

Tell her to stay at mom's until she starts getting honest and stops causing trouble for innocent older men. Next she'll accuse you of abusing her if you don't put a stop to this foolishness.

Get back in your house and tell your wife if she can't stand being under the same roof as you then pack her things.

See the difference between being sh!t on and taking control of the situation?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

A 12 year old girl is a baby that needs a father to believe her. Yeah maybe she lied but that is not relevant.

Why do children lie and act out? Why do they get sexualized early?

It's not because they're rotten! 

Look at the parents, friends, environment.

Boundaries! OP said mom has none and there is inappropriate sex talk! How is this the child's fault???

So yes now D12 has issues but dad has to be the one in her corner NOW or she goes way down hill.

Let's stop blaming a child and start creating a safe environment with both trust and (loving appropriate) consequences. BTW adults lie and stuck to the lies all the time - read and infidelity post. Why is anyone expecting a 12 year old to come out of this without her parent helping and protecting at the same time?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

BobZitt, I am a dad of 3 daughters (and a son) so I will give you my advice based on what I would do.


You are dealing with four different issues here so lets look at each.

The first is the fact that your 12 yo daughter is badly behaved and sending naked pictures to boys (while done by many nowadays) is not only wrong but also dangerous because it could get into the wrong hands, could encourage predators and rapists etc. She needs to understand this and accept that she put herself in dangers way besides the obvious fact that it was wrong for her to do at such a young age and the disrespect she will get going forward. Besides the sending of nude pics, she is also an accomplished liar and manipulator as many kids can be, especially if they see a rift between the parents. Sometimes it is a cry for attention. Your divorce may have also contributed to some of this behaviour. She needs to be disciplined and made to understand all this at the same time. This needs to be a joint discussion between you and your ex-wife on the one side and her on the other - she needs to see a united front from the two of you on this topic and needs to really understand that you both have her best interests at heart. So you need to have this discussion with your ex-wife first regardless of what else happened.

The second is that you have a lying FIL who at the very least is stirring up trouble and much more seriously, is a potential pedophile. This needs to be investigated at the very least. As another poster has said, he should not have been having that discussion with your daughter (that is your and your ex-wife's job). To do this a report has to be filed and this will at the very least fire a warning shot across the bow. Your top priority is to protect your and other kids from him if he is dangerous. In the meantime keep all kids away from him and in the case of your step daughter, if this is not possible then make sure someone else is always there when they are together.

The third issue that you are dealing with (and is related to the first issue) is your relationship with your ex-wife. You really need to sit with her and reassure her that you have your daughters best interests at heart and come up with a sound parenting plan based on a united front. It is imperative that you make this work for the sake of your daughter's (and your and your ex-wife's) well being.

The fourth issue that you are dealing with is your current wife. She is so close to her father (who may be a predator) that she is quite willing to put your marriage at risk. Banning your daughter from your house is another such action. This is not healthy for your marriage relationship and you need to re-evaluate just how committed to this marriage she is - especially if she chooses her father over you. You both need counselling and it may well be that this relationship is not for you.

So I wish you luck in dealing with these four issues - all four are important but the first two are urgent. Being able to separately identify these issues is the first step in getting there. Take care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bobzitt said:


> My wife has a very strong relationship with her father who in the past my father in law has cheated on his wife and taken my wife (his Daughter) to another woman's house when she was younger, left her in the car, so he could "Hang out" with another woman who wasn't her mother.


Bible won't help you with this.

Tell your wife: "Your father withdrew his love from you when you were a child and he included you in his dysfunctional, immoral behavior, and made you an accomplice to it. So you grew up thinking that your father would stop loving you at any given moment if you didn't do things HIS way. I suspect you secretly believe he did it and you can't bare to look at that part of your life, so you push away anything that might tarnish your relationship with your dad. I feel bad for you, but I can't allow that dysfunction to ruin my relationship with my own family. I'm willing to talk about all this in front of a counselor if you are. But if you're not willing to even look at the possibility that a child might be telling the truth about your dad, we probably don't have a future. And the biggest victim in this whole thing is YOUR daughter, who is now losing the only father she's ever known because of your fear of losing your father."


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

OP, has the thought ever occurred to you that your daughter doesn't like going to your house because she might run into your FIL there? Or maybe because her step-mom is a jerk to her?

Why assume that she's just being a snot about it? 

She's 12. She doesn't have the skills, the power, the confidence, the presence of mind to communicate her needs and fears clearly and rationally. Literally, her brain has not developed those skills yet. It's up to the adults to read between the lines and help her learn these things. She's dealing with puberty. Hormones, boys, school, mean girls, divorced parents, a creepy FIL and a step-mom who doesn't want her around. For crying out loud, give her some grace here.

Also... while I definitely advocate giving her the benefit of the doubt here... I have to disagree slightly with some other posters about her sending nudes to boys. In our day and age, that's unfortunately not uncommon for 12-year-olds. It really isn't necessarily a symptom of her being a victim of CSA. Definitely, a talk needs to be had about her having strong boundaries with boys. But it's really not out of the norm anymore for kids that young to be doing things like that.

But I stand by what I said previously... your FIL just talking to her about sending nudes to boys is inappropriate and creepy old man behavior. The fact that he's curious about her sexual activities is creepy whether or not he asked to see the pics. AND, you have proof that he has lied about the investigation. So you obviously cannot trust him to be telling the truth.

Tell your daughter that you are sorry that your FIL has been inappropriate with her and that you're going to protect her from him. Even if all he has done is creep her out, you should be feeling protective instincts here. That's what dads are supposed to do!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bobzitt said:


> the hardest part is, my daughters time line keeps changing, and so does her story, also a week before this all happened she accused me of talking sexually in front of her, my Ex wife called screaming and yelling and i told her i never have spoken sexually around my daughters, that talk is for moms and dads, not kids.
> 
> then to top things off, a few weeks before that, my 12 year old was set on not coming down to my house because she wanted to be a a friends house instead. she made up some lie to my exwife about my Wife being mean and locking her in a closet, there are so many angles i don't know how to handle all of this.


Get your 12 year old daughter in counseling. From what you say she is doing a lot of story telling and manipulating. This what not unusual for kids to do when they are in a situation like the one your 12 year old is in. It sucks to live in 2 homes and have a step mother. Most kids hate that.

Now you don't know if she is lying about your FIL. But you do know that they were talking about sending naked pictures to boys. He was way out of line talking about that with her. So you know that he's someone she should not be around.

Were you there at the time that your daughter claims that your wife locked her in a closet? Do you know for a fact that this did not happen?

Your daughter will continue to lie and manipulate as long as you and your ex allow this to go on.


.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bobzitt said:


> My Ex wife put a complaint in to the Sheriffs office but they refused to do anything, I never once told my wife about this nor told anyone else about the complaint, my FIL tried to say it was 2 days ago the complaint was placed in, today when i called the Sheriff's i was told no such complaint was filed nor was a statement filed.


This makes no sense. The police are required to turn anything like this over the child protective services who will then investigate to make sure that the child is ok.

Something here does not sound right.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I wouldn't say step grandpa talking to the OPs daughter about sexting is necessarily inappropriate. Depends on the context of the conversation. 

He may have seen some concerning behavior and asked her what was going on at which point she told him about the nudes she sent.

Could also have been that he heard so much about teens sexting that he thought to warn her against it.

Did the daughter face any consequences for the sexting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did the FIL get investigated?


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

Do you think its a good idea to confront my FIL about the False police report? I have evidence that he did not get a call nor any paperwork from the Sheriff's department. and this is what my Wife is basing her whole argument on. 

this is what my FIL told my wife (His Daughter) he received a phone call from the Sheriff's Department about a complaint place by the Parents and Grandparents of my 12 Year old Daughter. my FIL then told my Wife that I and my Ex wife and My parents went to the Sheriff's department on Sunday and filed a complaint about my FIL asking my D12 about naked pictures. he then said my Name wasn't on the paper work it was just my Ex wife and my Mother. He proceeded to tell his family including my Wife, that he was going to counter complaint and sue because his reputation was getting tarnished. My FIL also told his family and My Wife that the officer said to keep my 12 year old away and if she keeps going down this path she will be pregnant at 13. and some more inappropriate information. 

this is what i found out over the course of the last 2 days-
-there was no complaint filed on Sunday from my Ex Wife, my Parents nor myself
-the Sheriff did not serve any paper work nor gave a call to my FIL
-there is no such thing as grandparent rights in my state, even it my parents were to file a complaint, myself or my ex wife would have to sign off on the complaint. 
-I have the security camera for the facility and the call log from Monday (Sheriff's station) proving he did not get a call from the Sheriff's department nor have any contact with the on-duty officers 


I'm thinking i confront him out side of the home, and suggest he recant about the police report, and if he chooses not to, i will then bring all the evidence to my Wife and the rest of her family.

-Thoughts?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm confused. I thought you said your ex wife and her mother DID file a complaint at some point. Could you clarify?

And what do you mean by this: "-I have the security camera for the facility and the call log from Monday (Sheriff's station) proving he did not get a call from the Sheriff's department nor have any contact with the on-duty officers " What facility? Whose call log?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

First off the sheriff doesn't investigate; the PD does. A complaint wouldn't be made to a sheriff. PD is in charge of enforcing the law and investigating illegal activity; the sheriff is in charge of jails and transporting accused and convicted criminals.

Nothing is right about this.

I still suggest STOP with the he said/she said/FIL said/daughter said. File a complaint YOURSELF with DSS and let THEM investigate. If they find nothing occurred, they may suggest family counseling and nothing bad will ever come ot hte FIL. He will hate knowing somewhere there is a DSS file on him but it doesn't 'tarnish' his reputation unless HE tells people about it.

Maybe D12 is lying to get attention. Maybe not. It's up to you to protect her AND teach her right from wrong. You know she lied about some thing and you know she has sent nude photos so there IS an issue. (And what kind of 'sexual' things could you even be saying in front of her? Describing what you're going to do to your wife that night?)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bobzitt said:


> My FIL also told his family and My Wife that the officer said to keep my 12 year old away and if she keeps going down this path she will be pregnant at 13. and some more inappropriate information.


:rofl:

yeah, I'll just bet that cop told your FIL that about a CHILD who is not even his blood. Your FIL sounds like a professional swindler.

I would most DEFINITELY confront him. I would also ensure he's never around your kids again.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

My Ex wife filed a complaint back in August when my 12 year old said my FIL asked to see her naked pictures from her phone. the Sheriff Deputy then called me and asked me a few questions, then requested we go to the child advocacy Center 2 hours away, (I live in a Rural area BTW the Sheriff is the local PD) and we complied, after the appointment there they said it was not conclusive and refereed us back to the Sheriff, they said since the Advocacy Center doesn't have enough to do anything they are dropping the investigation. this was back in august. 

Now fast forward to this week starting Monday - this is when the sheriff's deputy showed up and or called to get my FIL's Statement, which i have proved to be false.


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## bobzitt (Oct 13, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm confused. I thought you said your ex wife and her mother DID file a complaint at some point. Could you clarify?
> 
> And what do you mean by this: "-I have the security camera for the facility and the call log from Monday (Sheriff's station) proving he did not get a call from the Sheriff's department nor have any contact with the on-duty officers " What facility? Whose call log?


i called the Sheriff's department, and they are the ones who actually handle the complaints in my county, i live in a town of 300 people which doesn't have its own PD, i requested the call log from the sheriff's dispatch and the security camera footage, i had to pay for it but i did obtain this information. i have proved my FIL to be a liar and now hes trying to make things worse by making up a story about going to the sheriff's station on Monday.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

bobzitt said:


> i called the Sheriff's department, and they are the ones who actually handle the complaints in my county, i live in a town of 300 people which doesn't have its own PD, i requested the call log from the sheriff's dispatch and the security camera footage, i had to pay for it but i did obtain this information. i have proved my FIL to be a liar and now hes trying to make things worse by making up a story about going to the sheriff's station on Monday.


Wow, I didn't know you could even get all that.

I think I'd talk to your wife and her dad at the same time and tell them this information. There's been enough secrecy here and you don't need to keep perpetuating it by threatening to tell your wife about her dad. Just do it while they're together.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And you and your wife are now separated because of this?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

bobzitt said:


> My Ex wife filed a complaint back in August when my 12 year old said my FIL asked to see her naked pictures from her phone. the Sheriff Deputy then called me and asked me a few questions, then requested we go to the child advocacy Center 2 hours away, (I live in a Rural area BTW the Sheriff is the local PD) and we complied, after the appointment there they said it was not conclusive and refereed us back to the Sheriff, they said since the Advocacy Center doesn't have enough to do anything they are dropping the investigation. this was back in august.
> 
> Now fast forward to this week starting Monday - this is when the sheriff's deputy showed up and or called to get my FIL's Statement, which i have proved to be false.


Ah, got it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

If your FIL has lied, this is even more serious as he is either trying to divert attention away from him or cause further friction between you and your wife or both!

Blow his lies out of the water.

This should be your first step en route to then getting an investigation under way. There is no way he should be asking to see naked pictures of a 12 yo girl.

And as for the inappropriate comment he claimed the police officer made, now that we know he lied, we have to believe that it is really what he is thinking which is toxic to your daughter, and he needs to be dealt with as such. It is an inappropriate comment for any old man to make about a 12yo girl (leave alone a step grandparent).


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I'm sorry, but I highly disagree here.
> 
> This pre-teen made allegations that her own father spoke sexually inappropriately to her and that her step-mother locked her in a closet. Had people actually believed either of those allegations, there could have been serious social and legal consequences.
> 
> ...


This is this man's 12 year old daughter.

If there's something wrong with her and she's acting out behaviorally then he has an even more important duty to figure out what she needs and deal with it.

You don't toss minor kids out of your home because they're acting out or acting up. There might be some very real reasons for why she's doing this and she requires her father's support and love....not him treating her like she's tainted. She is 12 years old. 

I have two daughters and my responsibility as a biological parent until my kids are of age trumps any other duty in my life...that includes to my husband and to my step-children. 

There's a reason this girl is acting out in this way and this father has a responsibility to figure it out and deal with it. He's a father.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Any partner demanding cutting ties with your children should be cut off from your.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> Any partner demanding cutting ties with your children should be cut off from your.


I am flabbergasted how anyone could WANT to be with someone like that once they reveal their stripes! Ok, a toxic grown child who needs tough love? Sure. But a 12 year old SCREAMING for help? Just sick.


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## Omar174 (Mar 12, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I am flabbergasted how anyone could WANT to be with someone like that once they reveal their stripes! Ok, a toxic grown child who needs tough love? Sure. But a 12 year old SCREAMING for help? Just sick.


I agree completely. 

I understand this is a very upsetting situation for the OP. But seriously, to me there would be no other choice other than to help the child. Even if the she is a challenging one. At 12 years old, she is a baby. 

And what kind of a person gives out this kind of ultimatum? That's really the only question that should be going through the OP's head.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

bobzitt said:


> Hey all,
> I am currently in the middle of a complete mess and looking for some thoughts or suggestion. here is the back story:
> 
> I have a Daughter from a previous marriage, shes 12, and I have a step daughter who's 4 and I've raised since she was 8 months old, and I have been married to my wife for 2 years and together with her for almost 4.
> ...


Ok, brother.
What does father in law say?
Did he say that he got a letter from the sheriff? And you doubt that he got a letter from the sheriff?

1. If he is lying and saying that he got a letter from the sheriff, why, doesn't he lose credibility lying about it. I would approach this logically. If he is claiming to have gotten a letter, tell him then its time you contact the sheriff to give your statement as well, call father in law's bluff. Your info is just as important as anybody else's.

2. If your wife is asking you to give up on your daughter, well, she is asking you to make a choice between her and your daughter. That seems like an easy choice to me.

My question brother, are your faith convictions keeping you from making a decision?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Do not be paralysed by indecision. I know that you want to think before you act, and that is wise. But do not leave this for too long - strike while the iron is hot. If FIL is at fault here, he will be scrambling to cover his tracks and also when you corner a rat, he will strike back.

I listed the four issues you are dealing with in my last post but have not had any feedback from you on those. What do you think ?


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> My initial reaction is that your wife is in denial. This must be treated seriously. Go to the police and verify if the letter is real, and why they have reason to investigate.
> 
> and regardless, you must keep your daughter away from FIL!!!!


yes - tell the police why you're asking - they won't be allowed to tell you much (especially if a case is happening) but it will make any lies into police matters and end that mind game.

Keep the daughter from the FIL or under constant public activity, as any problem on _either_ side would create a he says/she says mess. And both parties could be lying. Also if it was said at school, they have to report it to police too.

Be very careful - because a minor taking intimate photos of themselves is still a child pornography charge - worse if it is kept unseen or sent to anyone. the law is very literal on what MUST be done, and it includes being put on the public sex offenders register. You do not want to accidentally put your daughter through that (it is a police law matter, not a civil matter, so make sure no such record ever exists - and I seriously recommend editing [any] admissible public testimony that you might have inadvertently explored in theory on the matter !!!!


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Bob, do you know how her counseling went yesterday? Did you take her or did her mom take her? How much communication are you having with your ex wife over this whole mess?


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Crucify me if you will......

ALL of this sounds fishy to me. What sheriffs department will give out their own call logs and surveillance video for goodness sakes? And the advocacy center "dismissing because there is no evidence" back in......August? The "evidence" was the pictures in the first place!! They track that stuff with a VENGANCE nowadays.....the recipient boy and his family would have been involved, and the investigators can pull up ANYTHING that gets deleted. (Unless the pictures never really existed in the first place, which is my bet if this whole thing is true.) Don't know what state OP is in......but in my state, they would have created a ROAR over this. Lastly, why did this crop up a few days ago? If this happened in August, why did it magically reappear in October.

Story makes no sense. All the way around. If there is truth in this, it's that the kid needs professional help, pronto.


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