# Would you look at private investigator evidence?



## StartingOverHopeful

I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...

I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.

Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)

It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.

He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.

Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.

My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


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## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...
> 
> I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.
> 
> Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)
> 
> It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.
> 
> He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.
> 
> Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.
> 
> My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


Yes, your spidey senses are correct. 

And like others will say, trust your gut. 

My guess is that he has feelings for her still and will not admit it. 

And, he could be super conflict avoidant and girlfriend that is not a place that you want to be. 

Whatever it is, and I hate to say it, but I am thinking that you may want to pass on this one. 

Something is not right with him, and while I may not be correct as to what it is, it makes my alarm bells go off just like yours...


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## Andy1001

He seems very conflict avoidant and this will be a problem going forward.If she escalates the pressure on him to reconcile he may agree just to keep the peace and this leaves you in Limbo.
I hate to bring this up but could he be lying?


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## SunCMars

Ask him 'this' first, "What is the name of the PI?"
Tell him a friend is looking for one.
Bug him about this name.

Do this, be patient. You want the name, or you want the non-name.
The non-name tells a story.
His story is fiction.

After a week, or so, waiting...ask him if he still has the envelope.
The one holding the oozing, steamy hot flashes drive.

If he does, ask him to let YOU view the Juicy Lucy files.
Tell him that you only want to confirm that she did what he [BF] suspects.
Tell him he needs closure on facts, not on supposed, unconfirmed brass tacks.

Tell him you have feelings for him and you will not let this hang over your relationship with him.
Tell him you will view the proof with him in the room. You will do so without comment.
And hand him back the flush drive. Flush full of lust, infidelity.

Except, "Yep, she is guilty as sin!"

Either way he is very passive, very nice. 
Nice and weak.



TH-


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## Suspicious1

Very strange indeed, I'm a man and definitely would want to know especially after dropping 3500. I would at least have a good good friend see it.

My guess is it might have been him who did the cheating.

Just saying it's too strange of a story to go through all that and not really know!

S1


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Beach123

Tell him you may consider resuming your dating life with him when he stops avoiding reality and conflict!

Since his wife is attempting to reconcile he may be considering it! You need to know where he stands on that. Is he considering it or not?

You may be his plan B - and that sucks! Find out where he's at and decide whether you want to continue now or continue based on a guideline that he faces reality and deals with reality in a healthy way - which includes counseling long term so he learns a healthy way to deal with conflict without manipulating you and causing hurt feelings!

Have you told him straight up you have your feelings hurt by all this?


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## Lostinthought61

on some level he is in denial, i noted this else where, thinking that your spouse is unfaithful is one thing but having proof in your hand is still another...i woudl tell him that he is not ready for you. that he is in denial and that will be a problem with you and him going forward. i would tell him the following, as the PI to make a copy of everything he found and send it to her.


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## Yeswecan

> "I am sorry man, but life goes on,"


This would probably be enough for me. Of what use to see the pictures when it has been confirmed? Does it make it any better? He should have mailed it to his W for her enjoyment.


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## Thor

I would want to know who OM was. I believe I would want to at least look at thumbnail photos. If it felt too overwhelming I would at the very least get the PI to give me the OM's name and have him describe what he saw and got photos of. There shouldn't be any doubts about what was going on. It doesn't require viewing every photo or watching video of her having sex with OM, but there is a need for no doubt. The identity of OM would be important to me.


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## Mr. Nail

If I paid 3500 and WS still denied the affair, I'd print the pictures and hang them on the bedroom wall. I certainly would not give them back to the PI.

Without experience I still think that the pictures would not be worse than the mind movies that I would already have.

I don't know what his game is. I don't interpret spidy. I just know that I'm plenty Beta and I would not have handled it that way.


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## MJJEAN

I didn't file divorce citing adultery because it's much, much, much, faster and less expensive to just go the no fault route, so I understand that bit.

What I don't understand is ending a marriage over an affair and refusing to see the evidence of said affair. Either he's holding on to his feelings for and image of his ex wife or he's the kind of guy that can't really handle reality. Neither is good.

I also don't understand the chatting with the ex thing. I spoke to my ex about nothing that was unrelated to the kids. 

I have to wonder if he's still got feels for his ex, is considering reconciling, and is just enjoying some revenge in the meantime.


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## StartingOverHopeful

Thank you, all, for your insight. 

He says that if he pushed the evidence on her, she would retaliate, go "total war" with him. He says the real losers in that war would be the kids.

They have two kids under 13 that he basically raised because she is a self-centered, career focused NPD (according to him). Right now she is pretty generous with sharing the kids; even if it's her weekend, he can have lunch with them after sports games, etc., and if he has a family event like an uncle's birthday or anniversary on her weekend, she's wiling to trade days. He says if he confronted her with the fact that he hired a PI and caught her, she would go crazy and all those negotations (good for him and his kids) would end.

So he's definitely conflict avoidant. But he says it's because he doesn't want war with her.

Maybe he is conflict avoidant enough that this is a red flag for the relationship moving forward. Otherwise, he's such a great guy...

My divorce was pretty amicable; my ex confessed his affair when first confronted, and then went deeper underground and that's when she got pregnant. When I told him it was over and I needed a divorce, he was very sorry and gave me a good settlement. Our kid is almost out of high school aged. So it's hard to see from my boyfriend's side of things.


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## Beach123

Also sounds like he likely still has feelings for his ex.

Nice guy or not - he's showing red flags that make him very unappealing.

Conflict avoiders always create resentments! Mainly because they are so passive it's difficult to respect them...and to watch them allow others to walk all over them without doing/saying enough to stand up for themselves! ... or you even - for that matter! 

Yuck


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## Thor

I don't blame him for not starting a nuclear war in the divorce. If she was willing to be reasonable about the finances and child custody then there was no need to blow things up by sending pictures to relatives or to file divorce under infidelity. But ... that is totally different than him just saying look I have pictures and know you've been with Joe from work, so there's no need to deny anything. They're adults and there's no reason for it to become some big huge blow up if he tells her he has pictures. Since they were getting divorced, her denials are irrelevant. Telling her basically to stop lying because he has photographic proof would probably have been a good thing in terms of keeping her in line.

Had he threatened to make the pictures public that is a different matter.

I certainly don't understand him not wanting to at least get a clear idea of what the PI got proof of. To me it seems like he is holding onto some image of her and he knows if he sees pictures he will never feel the same about her.


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## honcho

Mr. Nail said:


> If I paid 3500 and WS still denied the affair, I'd print the pictures and hang them on the bedroom wall. I certainly would not give them back to the PI.
> 
> Without experience I still think that the pictures would not be worse than the mind movies that I would already have.
> 
> I don't know what his game is. I don't interpret spidy. I just know that I'm plenty Beta and I would not have handled it that way.


My ex and I had a very wild sex life so the mind movies for me were harsh as my imagination did run wild at times. That being said when I saw pictures and a video the sex was boring and "lame" compared to the mind games but the visual of her with another guy did make it worse in some ways.


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## StartingOverHopeful

I told him I can't move forward until I understand what is going on. I need to see the contents of the envelope.

He told me, he never took the envelope from the PI. He doesn't know if the PI still has it. I asked him the PI's name. He can't remember but he said his lawyer gave the referral to him so she would still know it. He says it was a cash deal and no emailing, just phone calls, two years ago. He said if he contacts the PI he may or may not remember my boyfriend and may or may not have the evidence.

My boyfriend is begging me not to push this, as it's like gut-wrenching for him to revisit that time in his life.

I pushed it anyway. The more he resisted, the more I got suspicious. We had to hang up because his kids were getting in the car, so it was never resolved.

Now I am feeling a little bad. My boyfriend really is quite passive. He's clearly co-dependent from his relationship with the crazy ex. He is everybody's "go to" person for help. He's a people pleaser. Is that such a bad thing? No one has ever been this nice to me. He's so in love with me and I am devastating him because I am questioning his divorce story now.


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## arbitrator

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...
> 
> I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.
> 
> Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)
> 
> It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.
> 
> He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.
> 
> Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.
> 
> My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


*I'd probably have played "Ostrich" too!

I believe that I would have taken the PI's envelope and drove straight to my attorney's office and handed him the evidence, telling them to use it in any way that they might deem as advantageous! *


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## Ynot

OP, I completely do not understand your obsession over this. Why would you need to see what's in the envelope? You don't even know her. For you it might be like watching a porn video without ever having a clue as to who the people in it are. The only thing you get out of it is the action.
OTOH, your BF may have just decided to get out of dodge because there was no reason to fight over it. Honestly when I think about the end of my 24 year marriage, I can see a lot of the reasons he would be continuing to do what he has done.
He made his best play.
If he really values himself for who he is, he may have just decided that the PIs words were all he needed. And so long!


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## StartingOverHopeful

Ynot said:


> OP, I completely do not understand your obsession over this. Why would you need to see what's in the envelope? You don't even know her. For you it might be like watching a porn video without ever having a clue as to who the people in it are. The only thing you get out of it is the action.
> OTOH, your BF may have just decided to get out of dodge because there was no reason to fight over it. Honestly when I think about the end of my 24 year marriage, I can see a lot of the reasons he would be continuing to do what he has done.
> He made his best play.
> If he really values himself for who he is, he may have just decided that the PIs words were all he needed. And so long!


I wanted to date someone who was divorced because of infidelity, as I had been. He knew that from the first OLD conversations. I am not obsessed with the envelope, just concerned that perhaps he convinced himself she had cheated so he could feel that it was "okay" to leave (he is very religious). He was unhappy for years but stayed because of his faith. 

He is a good man, as far as I know him so far. But he DID base our relationship on the premise that she cheated. His ex still denies cheating vehemently though. It's his word against hers. Oh yeah and the EVIDENCE. Which disappeared.

That's why I'm on here.

But I appreciate your perspective. That's why I asked!


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## FeministInPink

For some people, simply knowing that their spouse cheated is enough, and they don't need to know the details. It's pretty unusual, though, from what I've seen.

Maybe he was looking for verification from the P.I., and not necessarily evidence.

I think you have to ask yourself why this is so important to you, and if it is worth ending this relationship.

I am, however, like other posters here, concerned over his conflict avoidant behavior, which isn't good for any relationship.


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## TheBohannons

I see it a little differently. He made a decision. There was probaly enough circumstantial evidence to divorce, but he required confirmation. Once he had it, he made the called and filed. There was no need to look at the body, the marriage was dead. He discussed this with you to send a message. If you cheat, i will divorce you. You should understand that message.

Has she stated to you or family and freinds why they divorced? Why does SHE want to reconcile? WS recovers from the fog, family torn apart but recovering AND the BS starts to fall for another. Classic gigs. He knows she cheated. You know she cheated. The kids probably know. Everyone including the dog on the street corner knows.

Do you really want to go to war for this? 

If he is a good guy keep your eyes open, but show a little strength. It has only been a couple of months. His refusal to watch a suicide is a strength, not a weakness. If he doesn't want to share the past, ask him to share the future. Have you met his children? Ask to join him at the next event. If he balks, then walk.


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## becareful2

This is an easy call. I think you might feel the need to verify if this all too good of a man that you found on a Christian dating site is indeed a genuine Christian. You want to know for sure that he's telling you the truth and you don't want to be played. Get the name of the PI, and reach out to them. Make sure that they are indeed PI's with a real business. Tell the PI the story about your boyfriend and ask them if it's true. Ask them if they still have the flash drive. They must remember a story so unusual. The primary issue is your bf's trustworthiness. The secondary issue is his conflict avoidance. Is he the cheater or the cheatee? Is he still married or really divorced? If you're in the US, public records will confirm or deny this.


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## sokillme

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...
> 
> I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.
> 
> Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)
> 
> It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.
> 
> He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.
> 
> Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.
> 
> My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


I wouldn't. I would be done. She would be dead to me. Why torture myself.

Doesn't sound like you can handle this guy if he is telling the truth or not. Maybe you are not even ready to be honest.


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## Handy

my vote is the man friend is conflict avoidant. Maybe he is even ashamed he married the woman and it some how reflects badly on him for looking like a poor picker or maybe is he was a better H, she would not have cheated on him. I don't think he wants to get back with the XW.

I do understand him not wanting to go nuclear on his so he went the route that ruffled the fewest feathers. Some people want revenge on a cheating spouse. Some people just want the cheater gone and will pay them to leave.

My question for Starting Over, will you be happy with his religious and personal beliefs? Some deeply religious people have very rigid rules and expectations.


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## EleGirl

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I told him I can't move forward until I understand what is going on. I need to see the contents of the envelope.


Smart.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> He told me, he never took the envelope from the PI. He doesn't know if the PI still has it. I asked him the PI's name. He can't remember but he said his lawyer gave the referral to him so she would still know it. He says it was a cash deal and no emailing, just phone calls, two years ago. He said if he contacts the PI he may or may not remember my boyfriend and may or may not have the evidence.


Of course the PI would remember a client and he most likely still has all the photos. 

That right there tells me that he is lying. He's apparently seen too many Hollywood movies. All but 5 states require PIs to be licensed and they have to operate under state statues and rules. 

It was a cash deal with no emails and only phone calls. But he met the PI in person when the PI handed him the envelope and told him "sorry"???? LOL

Why would he trust the fate of his marriage to some guy whose name he does not even recall, pay a fairly large cash payment to the guy, have no real contact with him? Really?

He did not have to look through the entire envelope to see all the photos. He could have asked the PI to give him two or three that proved the infidelity.

Most of the time, the only photos that a PI can get is the cheating couple meeting in public holding hands, or kissing. The PI's generally cannot get the real salacious photos because all that usually happens behind closed doors. So those pictures most likely not something that would put videos in his head. In fact, from experience, the videos that come from my imagination in regards to my cheating husband are probably worse than real life.

This is a made up story. Beware of men (and women) who make up such outlandish stories. You don't have the truth about why his marriage ended.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> My boyfriend is begging me not to push this, as it's like gut-wrenching for him to revisit that time in his life.


Have you ever met his ex? Have you done any snooping around to find out what she's like? A lot of his story might be made up. 

Let's see, it's gut-wrenching for him to revisit that time in his life. But the sees his ex on a regular basis and she's trying to get him to go back with her. Isn't that also gut-wrenching for him?



StartingOverHopeful said:


> I pushed it anyway. The more he resisted, the more I got suspicious. We had to hang up because his kids were getting in the car, so it was never resolved.
> 
> Now I am feeling a little bad. My boyfriend really is quite passive. He's clearly co-dependent from his relationship with the crazy ex. He is everybody's "go to" person for help. He's a people pleaser. Is that such a bad thing? No one has ever been this nice to me. He's so in love with me and I am devastating him because I am questioning his divorce story now.


How do you know for sure that his ex is crazy? My ex told people all kinds of crazy stuff about me. Some of the things he told them that I did were actually things that he did. 

If he is co-dependent on his ex, he's not ready for a relationship with you, or anyone else. He has to resolve that first.

How long have you been dating this guy?

Have you met his extended family and friends. Have any of them ever corroborated that he is telling you?

Do you know where he works?


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## PigglyWiggly

I don't believe him. I think you are being manipulated.


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## BigToe

Haven't been there, so talking from a "what if" scenario, I'm not convinced actually looking at photos or film of your wife banging another man is healthy or necessary. It's one thing if a PI hands you photos not expecting it, but another if they offer you a sealed envelop. I'm not sure that I would look either. I applaud the guy actually and your asking to see the evidence is outrageous...personally I would have dumped you upon that request because I think it says something about you.

Why not cite infidelity during divorce? My first thought was, did HE have an affair during the marriage which she would have exposed in a tit-for-tat fashion. You don't say whether you ever asked him directly if he had an affair during the marriage. I could see him wanting to avoid that discussion and diminish his wife's affair to accomplish that.

As far as his wife wanting to reconcile, does she know about you? The fact that his wife wants to reconcile could be a good sign as to his character.


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## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I told him I can't move forward until I understand what is going on. I need to see the contents of the envelope.
> 
> He told me, he never took the envelope from the PI. He doesn't know if the PI still has it. I asked him the PI's name. He can't remember but he said his lawyer gave the referral to him so she would still know it. He says it was a cash deal and no emailing, just phone calls, two years ago. He said if he contacts the PI he may or may not remember my boyfriend and may or may not have the evidence.
> 
> My boyfriend is begging me not to push this, as it's like gut-wrenching for him to revisit that time in his life.
> 
> I pushed it anyway. The more he resisted, the more I got suspicious. We had to hang up because his kids were getting in the car, so it was never resolved.
> 
> Now I am feeling a little bad. My boyfriend really is quite passive. He's clearly co-dependent from his relationship with the crazy ex. He is everybody's "go to" person for help. He's a people pleaser. Is that such a bad thing? No one has ever been this nice to me. He's so in love with me and I am devastating him because I am questioning his divorce story now.


Yeah, it actually is a bad thing. 

There is some weirdness going on here. 

What ever is it, think about it like this. Being codependent, passive, these are not good qualities in the long run.

Take a minute that think all the way him being a pushover go to guy could cause issues.

All this PI stuff is just weird as well, it does not smell right. 

Something is up here, not sure what it is, but you need to find out...


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## Mr.Married

I don't believe it ...... not for a second. He's trumping his conflict avoidance with some victim butter. That envelope never existed.


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## StartingOverHopeful

FeministInPink said:


> For some people, simply knowing that their spouse cheated is enough, and they don't need to know the details. It's pretty unusual, though, from what I've seen.
> 
> Maybe he was looking for verification from the P.I., and not necessarily evidence.
> .


This ^^^ is EXACTLY what he says. He says the PI was just to confirm what he suspected and he "knew" from the statement, "I'm sorry, man, but life goes on" as the packet was handed to him, that was all needed to know. When he told me this, I replied, "All you know is that the PI found something unsavory, but he didn't actually say, 'I saw her with another man.' "


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## StartingOverHopeful

TheBohannons said:


> I see it a little differently. He made a decision. There was probaly enough circumstantial evidence to divorce, but he required confirmation. Once he had it, he made the called and filed. There was no need to look at the body, the marriage was dead. He discussed this with you to send a message. If you cheat, i will divorce you. You should understand that message.
> 
> Has she stated to you or family and freinds why they divorced? Why does SHE want to reconcile? WS recovers from the fog, family torn apart but recovering AND the BS starts to fall for another. Classic gigs. He knows she cheated. You know she cheated. The kids probably know. Everyone including the dog on the street corner knows.
> 
> Do you really want to go to war for this?
> 
> If he is a good guy keep your eyes open, but show a little strength. It has only been a couple of months. His refusal to watch a suicide is a strength, not a weakness. If he doesn't want to share the past, ask him to share the future. Have you met his children? Ask to join him at the next event. If he balks, then walk.


She says they divorced over fighting, mostly about her family (who she immigrated here after they married) and money. She says she wants to reconcile because she loves him and misses them being a family. She is begging him to go to couples counseling to work through their issues. 

I have met his children, parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins, friends, and coworkers. They corroborate that the ex was very difficult (she also has bipolar and refuses to take meds so her emotions are unpredictable). They believe him when he says she cheated, but he didn't share that with everybody--just the closest persons to him. He has not told his children (but whether they know is another story).


----------



## StartingOverHopeful

becareful2 said:


> This is an easy call. I think you might feel the need to verify if this all too good of a man that you found on a Christian dating site is indeed a genuine Christian. You want to know for sure that he's telling you the truth and you don't want to be played. Get the name of the PI, and reach out to them. Make sure that they are indeed PI's with a real business. Tell the PI the story about your boyfriend and ask them if it's true. Ask them if they still have the flash drive. They must remember a story so unusual. The primary issue is your bf's trustworthiness. The secondary issue is his conflict avoidance. Is he the cheater or the cheatee? Is he still married or really divorced? If you're in the US, public records will confirm or deny this.


Yes I already looked up county court records and his divorce story timeline is accurate. They are divorced.

He is willing to reach out to the PI with me but he is hurt that I am asking him to do this. 

The conflict avoidance is true, now that I think about it. He is a peace-maker and codependent, I am sure. He's so different from my ex (who was my first real relationship at age 20 on) that I was attracted to those qualities, but now I'm not sure...


----------



## TheBohannons

You are not sure? Why? I am beginning to think you are the problem. He may be conflict avoidant, but you appear to be looking for a conflict.

Let's look at this guy, TAM style. If he came to this forum with a bunch of suspicions, but no hard evidence, everyone who tell him to divorce. Like many CA guys he probably put up with this for years. He hired a PI and the PI gently placed the last straw on the camels back. I guarantee there was more to that conversation with the PI then "I am sorry, life goes on". After the conversation, he decided to spare himself what he already knew. What was wrong with that?

Like many here would suggest, he filed and worked for a amicable separation, for the kids. Then he moved on and found you. Every man on TAM tells the BS to do this. He introduced you to his family, friends, coworkers who all said she was "difficult" and bipolar. She of course minimizes and says the divorce was over fighting. Fighting about what? 3 guesses if you need them. 

He is trying to move on and wants to put this in his past. You come along and want to dig up this dirt, which will only inflict more pain on him. Why?

He has done everything correctly. He has introduced you to his family and by your words everything other then this issue is great.

Why do you need to push this issue? Why are you no longer "sure". Because he is not like your cheating X?

Honestly, the only thing strange here is your behaviour. You have only been divorced a year. He is your rebound and after a few months you have doubts. So you pick this fight, when logic, timelines, his family, friends, aunts uncles, coworkers (and the neighborhood dog) cooberate his story.

This is a senseless war. Keep it up and he will become "not so sure"


----------



## BluesPower

TheBohannons said:


> You are not sure? Why? I am beginning to think you are the problem. He may be conflict avoidant, but you appear to be looking for a conflict.
> 
> Let's look at this guy, TAM style. If he came to this forum with a bunch of suspicions, but no hard evidence, everyone who tell him to divorce. Like many CA guys he probably put up with this for years. He hired a PI and the PI gently placed the last straw on the camels back. I guarantee there was more to that conversation with the PI then "I am sorry, life goes on". After the conversation, he decided to spare himself what he already knew. What was wrong with that?
> 
> Like many here would suggest, he filed and worked for a amicable separation, for the kids. Then he moved on and found you. Every man on TAM tells the BS to do this. He introduced you to his family, friends, coworkers who all said she was "difficult" and bipolar. She of course minimizes and says the divorce was over fighting. Fighting about what? 3 guesses if you need them.
> 
> He is trying to move on and wants to put this in his past. You come along and want to dig up this dirt, which will only inflict more pain on him. Why?
> 
> He has done everything correctly. He has introduced you to his family and by your words everything other then this issue is great.
> 
> Why do you need to push this issue? Why are you no longer "sure". Because he is not like your cheating X?
> 
> Honestly, the only thing strange here is your behaviour. You have only been divorced a year. He is your rebound and after a few months you have doubts. So you pick this fight, when logic, timelines, his family, friends, aunts uncles, coworkers (and the neighborhood dog) cooberate his story.
> 
> This is a senseless war. Keep it up and he will become "not so sure"


I agree with most of what you guys say, most of the time, but I completely disagree with this. 

And guess what, OP does not want any kind of bait and switch going on, so I totally get that to her this whole thing looks fishy. 

Also, OP is saying that he is divorced, but BF is saying that he has to be "Nice" to her. If the divorce is not final then there is always a chance that they could get back together and even if it is final, the is still a chance that they could reconcile. 

So IMHO, there is ample reason to be worried about this.

Here are some general questions: 

1) Why won't he LOOK at the PI information? You could come up with many reasons. But is they are divorced, all it would take is for him to show her the evidence, explain that he would never take her back not matter what after this, and she should go away. 

To me that sounds like a pretty simple solution, and far better than the mother of his children, pining for him a trying to get him back. So why won't he confront her with this stuff. Further, why not show everyone, and shame her into leaving him alone except for the kids. 

2) Many conflict avoidant people have a lot of issues, and I think possible that this guy is no different. They really have communication issues, and everyone should know at this stage how deadly that is to a relationship. This is just a huge red flag for me. 

3) If they are divorced, why does he need to be "nice" to her for any reason. Why would he even care. Why would a logical person the is in a romantic relationship be "hurt" that the other party wants verification of his story. That is common sense for anyone. 

Hell, my GF ran a criminal history and background check on me. I was not offended. She knows that I was a ladies man at one point, she has looked through my phone more than once and she has the password. 

Bottom line, this behavior of his, unless it can be better explained, if full of red flags for the relationship. 

I think OP is well with in her rights to be cautious and careful with this situation...


----------



## StartingOverHopeful

BluesPower said:


> 1) Why won't he LOOK at the PI information? You could come up with many reasons. But is they are divorced, all it would take is for him to show her the evidence, explain that he would never take her back not matter what after this, and she should go away.
> 
> To me that sounds like a pretty simple solution, and far better than the mother of his children, pining for him a trying to get him back. So why won't he confront her with this stuff. Further, why not show everyone, and shame her into leaving him alone except for the kids.


He says she is very image-conscious and if he humiliated her/angered her like that, she would retaliate...by hurting his time with the kids. He is extremely eager to have every minute with his kids that he can. She lets him share time that's hers and he doesn't want to lose it. He also needs her to be cooperative about trading days, etc., when he needs it.



BluesPower said:


> 3) If they are divorced, why does he need to be "nice" to her for any reason. Why would he even care. Why would a logical person the is in a romantic relationship be "hurt" that the other party wants verification of his story. That is common sense for anyone.


See above for why he is "nice" to his ex. I have seen how much he relies on her agreeableness to make his life run more smoothly and allow him extra time with his kids.

He is hurt that I want verification because he thinks I should believe in his integrity and character as we've been dating almost 6 months...as well as the fact that he thinks if the PI does not remember the story or have the evidence that I will not be satisfied and I will dump him.


----------



## GusPolinski

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...
> 
> I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.
> 
> Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)
> 
> It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.
> 
> He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.
> 
> Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.
> 
> My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


He sounds passive, conflict-adverse, and weak.

Basically he’s a wuss.


----------



## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> He says she is very image-conscious and if he humiliated her/angered her like that, she would retaliate...by hurting his time with the kids. He is extremely eager to have every minute with his kids that he can. She lets him share time that's hers and he doesn't want to lose it. He also needs her to be cooperative about trading days, etc., when he needs it.
> 
> See above for why he is "nice" to his ex. I have seen how much he relies on her agreeableness to make his life run more smoothly and allow him extra time with his kids.
> 
> He is hurt that I want verification because he thinks I should believe in his integrity and character as we've been dating almost 6 months...as well as the fact that he thinks if the PI does not remember the story or have the evidence that I will not be satisfied and I will dump him.


Honey, I got to say that, I am not so sure that you should not dump him now. 

Maybe I am wrong, but all of the "reasons" sound like complete BS to me. It is all to weak IMHO. 

Listen, let me say that it is possible that I could be completely wrong. 

However, it sounds like your ex was a nightmare, cheated, abusive mentally and emotionally, and a general creep. 

So now you have a "christen" man, and he seems "Nice", he is not like your Ex, he is more laid back, passive and caring. 

On one level, all of that COULD be great. But let me ask if you guys have had sex yet? Is it good? How do your sex drives match up? 

Let's also say that the sex is 'OK', not great, his drive is lower than yours but not too low...

Imagine, talking about sexual issues if you ever had any, with a passive, conflict avoidant nice guy... How do you think that might work out???

Do you get at all what I am getting at? 

It is not just that the way he acts with his ex, the PI stuff, and the passivity... It's what it might mean for the future if you stay together...


----------



## EleGirl

StartingOverHopeful said:


> He says she is very image-conscious and if he humiliated her/angered her like that, she would retaliate...by hurting his time with the kids. He is extremely eager to have every minute with his kids that he can. She lets him share time that's hers and he doesn't want to lose it. He also needs her to be cooperative about trading days, etc., when he needs it.
> 
> See above for why he is "nice" to his ex. I have seen how much he relies on her agreeableness to make his life run more smoothly and allow him extra time with his kids.


There is a way to be firm that would not rock the boat with her. Something like, "I have no interest in ever getting back with you. You cheated. I have photos and information from a PI that prove it. You denying it makes it even worse. Had you admitted it we might have been able to work things out. I will not ever share the photos and info with anyone because you the mother of my children and I do not want to hurt your relationship with them. But I know the truth. So please do not keep talking about getting back together. However we can work together to raise your children."

He does not have to be mean. He should be firm with he. He's passive aggressive.

She might be a difficult person. She might have cheated. But he's passive aggressive .. another difficult trait to deal with.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> He is hurt that I want verification because he thinks I should believe in his integrity and character as we've been dating almost 6 months...as well as the fact that he thinks if the PI does not remember the story or have the evidence that I will not be satisfied and I will dump him.


The PI does not need to remember the story. The PI needs to remember that he was a client. The PI should have a list of clients so it would not be hard for the PI to remember.

In a relationship, trust but verify.


----------



## NobodySpecial

EleGirl said:


> There is a way to be firm that would not rock the boat with her. Something like, "I have no interest in ever getting back with you.


Why not just stop right there? Why is it important to him the whys now that they are divorced?



> You cheated. I have photos and information from a PI that prove it. You denying it makes it even worse. Had you admitted it we might have been able to work things out. I will not ever share the photos and info with anyone because you the mother of my children and I do not want to hurt your relationship with them. But I know the truth. So please do not keep talking about getting back together. However we can work together to raise your children."
> 
> He does not have to be mean. He should be firm with he. He's passive aggressive.


I agree with this. I would be really hesitant to get with a truth phobic person.


----------



## StartingOverHopeful

OP here again. Wow, I disclosed to him that I shared our story on a marriage forum and he freaked out. He said I should not trust strangers over him. I am ready to split, over that comment!!!


----------



## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> OP here again. Wow, I disclosed to him that I shared our story on a marriage forum and he freaked out. He said I should not trust strangers over him. I am ready to split, over that comment!!!


Yeah, that is just a little too weird if you ask me...


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Its anonymous, we have no idea who anyone is here. Your boyfriend is a wuss. I get that he didn't want to see pics of his ex with another man, but for gods sake have a trusted friend look at them and read what was reported! And his fear of his ex wife is pretty sick. I understand he seems like such a refreshing change from your ex, but making a life with a weak man is not a good thing. Add to that an ex wife who is trying to get him back, who he isn't telling in words strong enough to make her stop.. you have a recipe for future misery here. Ex wives are THE WORST, and anything that goes down beyond co-parenting is not acceptable. Heed these red flags.


----------



## StartingOverHopeful

3Xnocharm said:


> Its anonymous, we have no idea who anyone is here. Your boyfriend is a wuss. I get that he didn't want to see pics of his ex with another man, but for gods sake have a trusted friend look at them and read what was reported! And his fear of his ex wife is pretty sick. I understand he seems like such a refreshing change from your ex, but making a life with a weak man is not a good thing. Add to that an ex wife who is trying to get him back, who he isn't telling in words strong enough to make her stop.. you have a recipe for future misery here. Ex wives are THE WORST, and anything that goes down beyond co-parenting is not acceptable. Heed these red flags.


Yes we have already had fights about his poor boundaries with his ex. He just does not get it. He says he would never cheat with her so what's my problem if he spends time with her at her house having lunch after a sports game with the kids, etc. I told him that is confusing to the children and when will he start acting like he is divorced and interested in moving on? 

I actually asked him--when will this stop? Do we have to be engaged? Married? Ever?

I have my child from the divorce 100% of the time so he always argues that is the reason I can't understand why this extra time with his children is so valuable to him (he says he treasures every minute over his 50% allotted time).


----------



## GusPolinski

StartingOverHopeful said:


> Yes we have already had fights about his poor boundaries with his ex. He just does not get it. He says he would never cheat with her so what's my problem if he spends time with her at her house having lunch after a sports game with the kids, etc. I told him that is confusing to the children and when will he start acting like he is divorced and interested in moving on?
> 
> I actually asked him--when will this stop? Do we have to be engaged? Married? Ever?
> 
> I have my child from the divorce 100% of the time so he always argues that is the reason I can't understand why this extra time with his children is so valuable to him (he says he treasures every minute over his 50% allotted time).


He can’t see it now, but his passiveness is going to wind up doing him much more harm than good in the long term.

He’d be better off telling her the truth about why he’ll never reconcile with her and letting her stew over it for a while vs stringing her along (doesn’t matter if that’s not what he’s doing because that’s likely how she sees it) and letting things come to a head and blow up, at which point she’ll start using the kids against him.

Dump this chump and find a guy with integrity AND a backbone.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Okay... I see good points all around here. But maybe a bit of stepping back and breathing is in order? Blues is correct that he does sound weak, and many of us probably would be after that. And as for the kids...That has got to be one of the most painful things in the world. I know in my view, Watching my kids from afar would kill me. I also agree with Bohannon. OP is very new and injured as well. From a long standing marriage no less! Her pain is very real. Both parties have serious trust issues that would take years to mellow out. And this relationship is still very new as well! Hell, I dated my wife for over 7 years before I took her seriously for marriage. And yet, here I am with probs as well.

I guess, OP you found out the BF is actually divorced and the family with timelines and all measure up. But the communication with the ex is a serious problem, going forward. I don't think that you need to nuke the BF/GF thing as of yet. Do you have a otherwise good time and healthy communication between you two? Maybe a good talk between both of you with expectations and realities going forward can assuage some of the pessimism and fear. He should be able to see your pain too by the way. This is not solely on you! He needs to meet in the middle so to speak.

I feel that with the PI stuff, it would be nice to know that the memory stick is a "real" thing. And he is just not interested in seeing his ex mounted like a farm animal in his house or otherwise. God knows, there are enough peeps here that can attest to what THAT feels like. But if the ex is in denial, whatever. Their divorced. But going forward, you should be able to speak to her and set boundaries amicably that respect you and your relationship. BF should agree to that as well. If she is in hunting mode, and you BF is actively trying to "get caught". Then you know that this will be only a BF relationship and will never progress. During this time, you should be working on bettering yourself for YOU anyway.


----------



## SA2017

uh no. he could be lying. ask him if you can meet up with this PI to confirm your bf's "story" .


----------



## 3Xnocharm

StartingOverHopeful said:


> Yes we have already had fights about his poor boundaries with his ex. He just does not get it. He says he would never cheat with her so *what's my problem if he spends time with her at her house having lunch after a sports game with the kids, etc. * I told him that is confusing to the children and when will he start acting like he is divorced and interested in moving on?
> 
> I actually asked him--when will this stop? Do we have to be engaged? Married? Ever?
> 
> I have my child from the divorce 100% of the time so he always argues that is the reason I can't understand why this extra time with his children is so valuable to him (he says he treasures every minute over his 50% allotted time).


Um, this is a big fat NO.. ESPECIALLY since his ex is trying like hell to get him back! Take it from someone who has been there... you need to let him go. At least until he resolves his feelings for his ex. Having an ex in the picture this way leads to nothing but trouble! You have to draw a very hard boundary here, and if he will not respect it, then he needs to go. Amicable coparenting is positive and acceptable... spending chummy time is NOT. 

My ex husband divorced me to remarry his first wife. So trust that I know about this crap.


----------



## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> Yes we have already had fights about his poor boundaries with his ex. He just does not get it. He says he would never cheat with her so what's my problem if he spends time with her at her house having lunch after a sports game with the kids, etc. I told him that is confusing to the children and when will he start acting like he is divorced and interested in moving on?
> 
> I actually asked him--when will this stop? Do we have to be engaged? Married? Ever?
> 
> I have my child from the divorce 100% of the time so he always argues that is the reason I can't understand why this extra time with his children is so valuable to him (he says he treasures every minute over his 50% allotted time).


You know this is even worse than I thought. You know what, he does not have to be with his kids every waking moment. I get that he loves his kids. 

Girlfriend, this guys really has some issues, and he is wuss.

I think you just need to let him go, at his age, he is not going to change. I have seen women that get with men like this, and they always regret it when it is over. Several of them married the guys, yuck, they say that it was the biggest mistake of their lives. 

I don't know what the deal is, but I have seen so many guys the look normal and together and when you get to know them they are a mess.


----------



## StartingOverHopeful

SA2017 said:


> uh no. he could be lying. ask him if you can meet up with this PI to confirm your bf's "story" .


We discussed this ALL day long. I kept saying, "I just need to hear from the PI that he was hired by you and had evidence she cheated" and he kept finding reasons not to do that. I finally said let's end our relationship, I was tired of discussing it and it's a huge red flag for me so adios. 

He then said okay, let's do it, he would get the PI's number from the attorney and see if the evidence/records/memory of the PI were still there. At this point, I felt uninterested because I had to give him an ultimatum to get him to do it. I am looking for a grown-up marriage partner and I don't want to be threatening leaving to get him to cooperate. I am a Christian and I want to marry for life. He is constantly talking about wanting to marry me, but he won't hear me when I say "we aren't compatible"--he keeps saying we need to work things out, talk about it, our relationship is too special. He says I give up too easily. 

I admit, I am 12 months out of a 25 year marriage to a selfish man who cheated for years and had a baby with his AP. I am not in the best place to know what is "giving up too easy" or "our relationship is special."

This is so hard for me.


----------



## Beach123

I side with you.

I don't see it as giving up easily. I see it as wanting evidence that he's been honest. Nothing wrong with that.

But he's showing some weak character traits that bring up concerns. 

He should always hear you - even if anything is discussed - he shouldn't participate as if what you say isn't valued.

He should be more open to considering your feelings/perspective and want to DO enough to make you happy.


And IF you have to beg for that = I wouldn't keep moving forward.

Are you able to tell him these concerns? 

Is he willing to work on his habit of being so passive that he avoids any conflict? Can you respect him if he doesn't change this?


----------



## just got it 55

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I told him I can't move forward until I understand what is going on. I need to see the contents of the envelope.
> 
> He told me, he never took the envelope from the PI. He doesn't know if the PI still has it. I asked him the PI's name. He can't remember but he said his lawyer gave the referral to him so she would still know it. He says it was a cash deal and no emailing, just phone calls, two years ago. He said if he contacts the PI he may or may not remember my boyfriend and may or may not have the evidence.
> 
> My boyfriend is begging me not to push this, as it's like gut-wrenching for him to revisit that time in his life.
> 
> I pushed it anyway. The more he resisted, the more I got suspicious. We had to hang up because his kids were getting in the car, so it was never resolved.
> 
> Now I am feeling a little bad. My boyfriend really is quite passive. He's clearly co-dependent from his relationship with the crazy ex. He is everybody's "go to" person for help. He's a people pleaser. Is that such a bad thing? No one has ever been this nice to me. He's so in love with me and I am devastating him because I am questioning his divorce story now.


If you keep pushing this he may tell you to get lost.

I don't get the suspicion Projection maybe ?

It is just what it is IMO. He doesn't want to rock the boat and risk seeing his children as much Surely you can understand this ?

He has a better understanding of the dynamics of the post marriage relationship than you do No?

Let it go or move on.

55


----------



## just got it 55

If and when you see the evidence what then You drove him to a dark place he did not want to revisit

He divorced her. How weak and passive is that??

55


----------



## SA2017

leave it alone. he has unfinished business. and he may lied anyway.


----------



## BluesPower

I think you are doing the right thing. At this stage of life, you cannot afford to waste time with someone that either has or will have issues that will cause problems later. 

And you are right about the ultimatum, if you have to go to that extent to get him to "Hear" you, then why deal with that at all. 

I think his passive conflict avoidant behavior is the number one problem that he has. 

And here is the bottom line, when it is right, when you find the right guy, you won't be posting on TAM with questions and red flags...


----------



## giddiot

StartingOverHopeful said:


> OP here again. Wow, I disclosed to him that I shared our story on a marriage forum and he freaked out. He said I should not trust strangers over him. I am ready to split, over that comment!!!




Beware of covert narcissist. They try to be what you want to suck you in and they will bend streach and lie to you to get it. They will make comments like he did about this relationship is so special or you are my soulmate. Then you start getting odd gut feelings. 

His reaction to telling him you asked TAM is telling. He wants control so is blaming you for not trusting him when he should be doing things to build your trust. You trust strangers more than him, that’s like saying you doubted his integrity, what a bull**** comment, I have heard that one before. You see how that is turning it around to blame you. It’s one of the signs. I would suggest you about face and run away from this guy.


----------



## Blondilocks

1. He likes to hang out and play happy family with the kiddos and ex-wife.

2. Any woman who gets with him will be constantly dancing to his ex-wife's tune.

3. Due to your children's different ages, you two are in different life stages.

Throw him back. There are more fish in the sea.


----------



## Ynot

FTR I agree with Bohannon. But at this point I think the horse is out of the barn and it is a little too late to close the door. OP, just dump the guy. It is apparent that you have trust issues. It is also apparent, that every thing your BF does is being used as another excuse to dump the guy, so just do it and let this guy get on with his life. Then go get some counseling yourself.
When my ex left I had all sorts of evidence that she had been cheating - hundreds of texts to a strange number at all hours of the day and night (a number at which a guy answered when I called it), missing money, working late a lot, waking me up at night for sex, etc. I didn't pursue it any further. If she didn't want to be there, she didn't want to be there. I guess some could call that conflict avoidant or weak, but at that point I wasn't interested in conflict or being strong. All I wanted was out and away from her. Luckily we didn't have any kids or big assets to argue over. I just wanted it over and done with as soon as possible. Lot's of women I have talked to since have told me that what I did was bad ass. She wanted out, I let her go, moved away and started a new life. It was pointless to pursue all the leads I had, because at that point it didn't matter.


----------



## Openminded

Passive people don't change. It's who they are. 

I don't think you'll be happy with him long-term.


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## TheBohannons

I have heard some piss poor excuses for dumping someone. Dumping a guy because he refuses to see pictures of the woman he loved giving another guy a blowjob, isn't just weak. It is pathetic.

Sorry, in reality, you are both just rebounds. Quit making excuses and look in the mirror. Move on, but stop blaming him for not doing something which may cause him additional pain. 

What is your point? We just dont get it.


----------



## Suspicious1

becareful2 said:


> This is an easy call. I think you might feel the need to verify if this all too good of a man that you found on a Christian dating site is indeed a genuine Christian. You want to know for sure that he's telling you the truth and you don't want to be played. Get the name of the PI, and reach out to them. Make sure that they are indeed PI's with a real business. Tell the PI the story about your boyfriend and ask them if it's true. Ask them if they still have the flash drive. They must remember a story so unusual. The primary issue is your bf's trustworthiness. The secondary issue is his conflict avoidance. Is he the cheater or the cheatee? Is he still married or really divorced? If you're in the US, public records will confirm or deny this.


What kind of PI is going divulge such information about another client all willy nilly? And if they do they're an awful establishment, who lack respect and honor.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## StartingOverHopeful

TheBohannons said:


> I have heard some piss poor excuses for dumping someone. Dumping a guy because he refuses to see pictures of the woman he loved giving another guy a blowjob, isn't just weak. It is pathetic.
> 
> Sorry, in reality, you are both just rebounds. Quit making excuses and look in the mirror. Move on, but stop blaming him for not doing something which may cause him additional pain.
> 
> What is your point? We just dont get it.


I think some misunderstanding is happening here. I agree it would be pathetic to dump him because he won't look at affair sex pictures! What I came on here to ask was, do you think this story is 100% the truth? Is it RATIONAL to hire a PI and then be satisfied with "sorry, man, but life goes on" and divorce your wife, with two minor children, based on that one sentence? (By the way, he says that IS ALL that the PI said to him). I posted on here because I didn't know if it was rational, because it's not how I would have behaved in this scenario, but I came on here to have people tell me it WAS rational if that's how they see it. I am a scientist by training so I live and breathe data--I make my living doing observations of the natural world drawing conclusions based on data. I would have either looked in the flash drive or asked the PI to describe what he had witnessed, or given it to my sister or a friend to look at. (But that's just me, that's why I came here, to throw out this question...)

For the first 5 months of dating, I trusted my boyfriend's story that he had been cheated on, and I based my agreement to pursue movement towards getting engaged (he wants to get engaged this year) on that. I only recently got suspicious because of what he has been telling me about his ex-wife's attempts at reconciliation. He NEVER pushes her away with "you cheated" and he says it's because she denies cheating. He won't tell her about the PI. I don't understand this? He says it is because he didn't disclose it to the lawyers as part of the divorce so why tell her. They are divorced. I get that. I, personally, just feel like humans have that "gift of fear" for a reason and we need to pay attention to it. Odd stories warrant a second look, that is all. 

I am not, for the record, asking him to look in the flash drive. I am simply asking why he didn't, and if he would mind if I did (yes he does mind) so then I am asking can I just talk to the PI. 

At one point, my BF said he doesn't want me to talk to the PI because the PI may have thrown out the evidence and may not remember my boyfriend, so he thinks if that happens I will be break up with him. Hence, he wants me to just trust him. He continued by saying I need a Christian counselor to advise me on who to marry, not an anonymous forum, and he is highly suspicious of me posting on/reading a forum.

This caused me to tell him we can't see eye-to-eye on the issue, so maybe this relationship is not meant to be, at which point he finally agreed to contact the PI. It's the weekend so of course nothing is resolving, but that's where we stand.

I just wanted to get my story out there complete. You guys may say I'm in need of therapy, not trusting, rebounding, etc., and maybe you are right. However, I hope therapy never convinces me to ignore odd stories/red flags/ etc. I was fooled once by my H and I think we are supposed to learn lessons from that.


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## StartingOverHopeful

I should add to my above post... I know "sorry, man, but life goes on" suggests the PI saw cheating. However, it could have been other unsavory behavior on his wife's part, anything from flirting on Facebook to stealing money from her company. Right? Isn't this possible? My fear is that my boyfriend didn't ask "what does that mean?" because of his deep Christianity in an unhappy marriage leading him to 'want' a way out with "God's blessing."

(I should mention, he is REALLY strong in his faith, even more so than I am...he told me that he wouldn't even consider marrying any woman who didn't have adultery as the reason for her divorce.)

If he didn't get a divorce because of adultery, fine, that's fine with me, but he DID lead me to believe that is why. To me, this is possibly deceptive. And having been betrayed by an adulterer (with a love child that wrecked my kid's life too), I am a bit hyper-vigilant!


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## Thor

I don't think you're wrong. There is something not quite right with his story and actions. I've learned that when things don't make sense, there is missing important information. If I were you I'd either follow up to see if his story is true, or I'd bail on the relationship.

It should be him that contacts the PI to release confidentiality to you. At that point either you talk to the PI (make sure you are really talking to who you think you are) to hear what he found, or you look at some of the evidence.

However, your bf's attitude and behavior is just a bit odd to me even if his story is true. I wouldn't jump into marriage too soon with him.


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## just got it 55

Some men want the dirty details others not so much

This has been well discussed here on TAM SI and LS

For some they need it to believe it

For others they need it to fuel the anger (this would be me)

For many it would be just too painful and emasculating horrific and self esteem killer 

Why put yourself through that ?

If he is strong in his faith then believe him

If not He could be the one that betrayed his XW

As far as his XW if she wants to R would you blame her ? This would suggest that she was the cheater.

If that is your concern that is a seperate issue.

55


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## BluesPower

I am having a hard time understanding why EVERYONE cannot understand where you are at. 

I did not even need the second clarification. 

He is acting weird, his actions and statements, are weird. 

In fact I almost guaranty this if you stick around something really super strange is going to crop up. As if what he has said and done is not strange enough. 

You are correct in everything that you are suspicious about. 

Stand your ground, you will not be sorry...


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## just got it 55

BluesPower said:


> I am having a hard time understanding why EVERYONE cannot understand where you are at.
> 
> I did not even need the second clarification.
> 
> He is acting weird, his actions and statements, are weird.
> 
> In fact I almost guaranty this if you stick around something really super strange is going to crop up. As if what he has said and done is not strange enough.
> 
> You are correct in everything that you are suspicious about.
> 
> Stand your ground, you will not be sorry...


BP Respectfully...... what I don't understand is your certainty.

Too many emotions envolved!


55


----------



## BluesPower

just got it 55 said:


> BP Respectfully...... what I don't understand is your certainty.
> 
> Too many emotions envolved!
> 
> 55


I call things very quick in general. I do that here and in life. Now, I would never say that I am always correct, but overall I am hardly ever wrong. 

What I see here with this guy is multifold... but overall I see a sane women that is asking questions. 

He is a passive guy, like someone said, he likes to play family with the wife and kids. Passive. A healthier alternative would be to have his "Family Time" with his kids, as a practical matter, I think it is unhealthy for the kids. And what happens when Ex finally gives up trying to get him back and moves on with another man? What will the kids think? For me, whole thing, just weak. 

The strong christen thing, I have been there and while I respect this most of the time, I also know that it is where insecure men hide behind a mask of christen strength. Please don't tell me that it does not happen, because I have seen it so many times. 

Not looking at any evidence or the report or having a friend confirm it for him at some acceptable level, sorry that is just super weird. 

I my life, I have had the pleasure, overall, of knowing a lot of great women, not once have I ever even met a woman that was satisfied with a passive, possibly beta man. Not saying that they don't exist, I am just saying that in my life I have never met one.

Further I think OP would be subjected to him acquiescing to his ex wife "because of the kids" from this day forward, and I don't think any sane women wants this.

But hey, maybe I am wrong on this one...


----------



## just got it 55

BluesPower said:


> I call things very quick in general. I do that here and in life. Now, I would never say that I am always correct, but overall I am hardly ever wrong.
> 
> What I see here with this guy is multifold... but overall I see a sane women that is asking questions.
> 
> He is a passive guy, like someone said, he likes to play family with the wife and kids. Passive. A healthier alternative would be to have his "Family Time" with his kids, as a practical matter, I think it is unhealthy for the kids. And what happens when Ex finally gives up trying to get him back and moves on with another man? What will the kids think? For me, whole thing, just weak.
> 
> The strong christen thing, I have been there and while I respect this most of the time, I also know that it is where insecure men hide behind a mask of christen strength. Please don't tell me that it does not happen, because I have seen it so many times.
> 
> Not looking at any evidence or the report or having a friend confirm it for him at some acceptable level, sorry that is just super weird.
> 
> I my life, I have had the pleasure, overall, of knowing a lot of great women, not once have *I ever even met a woman that was satisfied with a passive, possibly beta man.* Not saying that they don't exist, I am just saying that in my life I have never met one.
> 
> *Further I think OP would be subjected to him acquiescing to his ex wife "because of the kids" from this day forward, and I don't think any sane women wants this.*
> 
> But hey, maybe I am wrong on this one...


Bold letters is a good posability even likely 
But the thread question speaks to the PI info

I see them seperately

55


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## StartingOverHopeful

BluesPower said:


> I call things very quick in general. I do that here and in life. Now, I would never say that I am always correct, but overall I am hardly ever wrong.
> 
> What I see here with this guy is multifold... but overall I see a sane women that is asking questions.
> 
> He is a passive guy, like someone said, he likes to play family with the wife and kids. Passive. A healthier alternative would be to have his "Family Time" with his kids, as a practical matter, I think it is unhealthy for the kids. And what happens when Ex finally gives up trying to get him back and moves on with another man? What will the kids think? For me, whole thing, just weak.
> 
> The strong christen thing, I have been there and while I respect this most of the time, I also know that it is where insecure men hide behind a mask of christen strength. Please don't tell me that it does not happen, because I have seen it so many times.
> 
> Not looking at any evidence or the report or having a friend confirm it for him at some acceptable level, sorry that is just super weird.
> 
> I my life, I have had the pleasure, overall, of knowing a lot of great women, not once have I ever even met a woman that was satisfied with a passive, possibly beta man. Not saying that they don't exist, I am just saying that in my life I have never met one.
> 
> Further I think OP would be subjected to him acquiescing to his ex wife "because of the kids" from this day forward, and I don't think any sane women wants this.
> 
> But hey, maybe I am wrong on this one...


You guys have a lot of great insight without even some of the other strange things that have happened between us! There was one day I was flabbergasted. We were supposed to spend the whole day together after his kids' morning sports games (weekend day). After the games, he went to lunch with her and the kids and a teammate and his family. During the lunch, the other kid and his kid decided that they wanted a playdate at the ex's house. My boyfriend's kid didn't want the teammate to know his parents were divorced (like I said, strongly Christian family) so my BF hung out there for hours talking on the sofa with teammate's mom and dad and ex! He showed up so late to my place, apologetic, but saying he did it for the kid. I don't know what to make of this. I was hurt but I always think kids come before dating so I let it go, although I did tell him, he needs his children to not wear the shame of having divorced parents and pretend like this. 

My BF did agree it was deceptive but he felt "trapped" in the situation and didn't want anyone to be disappointed.

He disappointed me! Argh!


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## Suspicious1

StartingOverHopeful said:


> You guys have a lot of great insight without even some of the other strange things that have happened between us! There was one day I was flabbergasted. We were supposed to spend the whole day together after his kids' morning sports games (weekend day). After the games, he went to lunch with her and the kids and a teammate and his family. During the lunch, the other kid and his kid decided that they wanted a playdate at the ex's house. My boyfriend's kid didn't want the teammate to know his parents were divorced (like I said, strongly Christian family) so my BF hung out there for hours talking on the sofa with teammate's mom and dad and ex! He showed up so late to my place, apologetic, but saying he did it for the kid. I don't know what to make of this. I was hurt but I always think kids come before dating so I let it go, although I did tell him, he needs his children to not wear the shame of having divorced parents and pretend like this.
> 
> My BF did agree it was deceptive but he felt "trapped" in the situation and didn't want anyone to be disappointed.
> 
> He disappointed me! Argh!


My B.S dictector is going off like crazy!

I really don't understand why he even got a divorce so easily without confirming his suspicion. 

He seems so attached to his ex, and the life he had. If he's willing to pretend post divorced he could have done the same after finding out his wife "cheated"

Ruuuuuuunnnnn.

S1 

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## NobodySpecial

Suspicious1 said:


> My B.S dictector is going off like crazy!


I am not even sure why it matters if he is full of BS or not. This is no relationship to get into regardless.


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## Beach123

He has major issues!

He's willing to hurt your feelings by pretending and lying? 

He needs at least a year of intensive counseling if you're ever going to consider seeing him again.

He "acts like" he's still married to her! He pretends to keep up an appearance of still being married so others believe it.

He may as well still be married!

Yuck! What a liar and a wussy! He's got major issues you can't fix for him!


This is not anything you've done wrong - he would be doing the same thing to anyone he's seeing... he's never REALLY ended that marriage! Tell him that! You can't fix this for him!


He wants to act like he's still married? Then he shouldn't be dating ANYONE!!!!! He's cruel and torturing you! Selfish to use you while he's actually still totally and completely attached to his wife and family!

I'd be wondering if he's actually got his divorce finalized? Have you seen his final divorce evidence? Why did he get divorced if he's not gonna act like it?

These are answers YOU DESERVE! Tell him how inadequate he's being as a guy who's supposed to be available to date!!!


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## StartingOverHopeful

Beach123 said:


> He has major issues!
> 
> He's willing to hurt your feelings by pretending and lying?
> 
> He needs at least a year of intensive counseling if you're ever going to consider seeing him again.
> 
> He "acts like" he's still married to her! He pretends to keep up an appearance of still being married so others believe it.
> 
> He may as well still be married!
> 
> Yuck! What a liar and a wussy! He's got major issues you can't fix for him!
> 
> 
> This is not anything you've done wrong - he would be doing the same thing to anyone he's seeing... he's never REALLY ended that marriage! Tell him that! You can't fix this for him!
> 
> 
> He wants to act like he's still married? Then he shouldn't be dating ANYONE!!!!! He's cruel and torturing you! Selfish to use you while he's actually still totally and completely attached to his wife and family!
> 
> I'd be wondering if he's actually got his divorce finalized? Have you seen his final divorce evidence? Why did he get divorced if he's not gonna act like it?
> 
> These are answers YOU DESERVE! Tell him how inadequate he's being as a guy who's supposed to be available to date!!!


Yes, I found his divorce in the county court records. It was final last year, and the timeline he told me for filing/serving/final divorce is accurate with his telling.

He says he is "playing family" for time with his kids and to be nice to the bipolar ex-wife who holds their happiness ransom (all according to him). 

I know this sounds crazy. But I have never seen a dad as dedicated as he is. He raised his kids...his wife was aloof and self-centered, cold, uninterested in mothering...etc. All this is according to him, but I spend time with him and the kids, and I see that they prefer him to her, and they are nuts about him. That's why I kept going through all the questionable behavior. I figure, the way he treats his kids, is how he will treat me as we grow old together... ?


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## Thor

I know someone who got deep into a relationship with a man like this. It turned out he could not actually detach from his xw and child in order to have a healthy new marriage. We all know what a healthy relationship with an ex means when there are children involved, and we all know a parent needs to remain involved in the child's life after divorce. What you describe is the same kind of dysfunction I saw in my friend's situation.

When it came time to do things like go on vacation, he was unable to leave his child for more than a day or two before becoming very anxious. His child was living with mom, but he saw his child pretty much every day. He would go eat dinner at his ex's house with her and the the child, then he'd watch tv with them for a while before going back to his house a couple of blocks away.

My friend was very much an outsider to all of this. His child was #1 priority to a crazy level, which meant his xw was able to lead him around by the nose.

I think you would find the same sort of thing if you married your bf. You would be pretty far down the priority list, and would develop resentment and frustration.


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## TheBohannons

This is what infidlety does to good people. Suspicions, questions and doubts.

I do not doubt for a minute that your intentions are good and reasonable for you and most. No one here knows what married life was like for your BF. There could have been 100s of clues and suspicions in that marriage. Without knowing the details of his Xwifes behaviour, how could anyone say that his reaction was unreasonable. Sometimes, you just have had enough. 

The information you seek is available. He had a lawyer. He stated that his lawyer had the PIs information. A good lawyer would have reviewed the files and he certainly has the contacts. You are going to get what you are looking for.

Let's assume you find the PI and the information on her infidelity. What then? You reiterated that the reason you came here was the question about the evidence. If there is more to your dissatisfaction then his divorce, Don't take him thru this, only to find out he told the truth and say "Still not good enough". Don't make some one run a marathon, and then tell them to turn around and run another. 

We dont think either of you are wrong, but you both have recently divorced for infidelity. Perhaps what your subconscious is telling you, is not that their is something "wrong" with him, but that you should slow down. 

We wish you and both of your families well.


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## just got it 55

StartingOverHopeful said:


> You guys have a lot of great insight without even some of the other strange things that have happened between us! There was one day I was flabbergasted. We were supposed to spend the whole day together after his kids' morning sports games (weekend day). After the games, he went to lunch with her and the kids and a teammate and his family. During the lunch, the other kid and his kid decided that they wanted a playdate at the ex's house. My boyfriend's kid didn't want the teammate to know his parents were divorced (like I said, strongly Christian family) so my BF hung out there for hours talking on the sofa with teammate's mom and dad and ex! He showed up so late to my place, apologetic, but saying he did it for the kid. I don't know what to make of this. I was hurt but I always think kids come before dating so I let it go, although I did tell him, he needs his children to not wear the shame of having divorced parents and pretend like this.
> 
> *My BF did agree it was deceptive but he felt "trapped" in the situation and didn't want anyone to be disappointed.
> *
> He disappointed me! Argh!


Okay this would change my (55) position

This is not a good thing

55


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## BluesPower

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I know this sounds crazy. But I have never seen a dad as dedicated as he is. He raised his kids...his wife was aloof and self-centered, cold, uninterested in mothering...etc. All this is according to him, but I spend time with him and the kids, and I see that they prefer him to her, and they are nuts about him. That's why I kept going through all the questionable behavior. I figure, the way he treats his kids, is how he will treat me as we grow old together... ?


No sorry dear, it is not. He will treat you the way that he treats you know, but it will get worse. 

And you post before last is a perfect example. He is enmeshed with his wife and kids. Basically an unhealthy level of attachment interwoven in the codependent world that he live in. 

Now I am not saying that you children, even after divorce are not the most important thing in the world, but this is beyond the pale. He has such a level of codependency with all of them that he cannot function outside of that world. 

Life someone said, he has ISSUES. 

You got to get out of this one or if you wait it is really going to hurt when it blows up.

Listen, you said yourself that you are a giver. Which I take as a caring loving woman. 

A part of you thinks that you can fix him. Work with him, you can show him how great it can be when a woman actually loves you. 

Well guess what, you cannot. I could not fix my Ex, I could not even fix some of the GF's that I had early on. And eventually I learned to stop trying. 

My GF is a wonderful woman in every way. She is beautiful, sexy, GREAT in bed, affectionate, caring and on and on. 

You know that the single best thing about her is... SHE IS NOT CRAZY. She is grounded, she knows who she is, she knows what she wants. But she is not crazy, 

Myself, I can work with NOT CRAZY...


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## Openminded

If you've told him you don't feel you're compatible then why are you still with him? Hoping he'll change? Not likely. And his family situation will always come first with him -- not you. When the children grow up then there will likely be another excuse -- grandchildren probably -- for his actions. If you aren't interested in being second best then find someone else.


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## sokillme

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I should add to my above post... I know "sorry, man, but life goes on" suggests the PI saw cheating. However, it could have been other unsavory behavior on his wife's part, anything from flirting on Facebook to stealing money from her company. Right? Isn't this possible? My fear is that my boyfriend didn't ask "what does that mean?" because of his deep Christianity in an unhappy marriage leading him to 'want' a way out with "God's blessing."
> 
> (I should mention, he is REALLY strong in his faith, even more so than I am...he told me that he wouldn't even consider marrying any woman who didn't have adultery as the reason for her divorce.)
> 
> If he didn't get a divorce because of adultery, fine, that's fine with me, but he DID lead me to believe that is why. To me, this is possibly deceptive. And having been betrayed by an adulterer (with a love child that wrecked my kid's life too), I am a bit hyper-vigilant!


Here is the deal if you are not happy or it doesn't feel right you are well within your rights to call it. Doesn't sound like he is the one because he seems to be kind of shady at least in your mind.


----------



## sokillme

StartingOverHopeful said:


> You guys have a lot of great insight without even some of the other strange things that have happened between us! There was one day I was flabbergasted. We were supposed to spend the whole day together after his kids' morning sports games (weekend day). After the games, he went to lunch with her and the kids and a teammate and his family. During the lunch, the other kid and his kid decided that they wanted a playdate at the ex's house. My boyfriend's kid didn't want the teammate to know his parents were divorced (like I said, strongly Christian family) so my BF hung out there for hours talking on the sofa with teammate's mom and dad and ex! He showed up so late to my place, apologetic, but saying he did it for the kid. I don't know what to make of this. I was hurt but I always think kids come before dating so I let it go, although I did tell him, he needs his children to not wear the shame of having divorced parents and pretend like this.
> 
> My BF did agree it was deceptive but he felt "trapped" in the situation and didn't want anyone to be disappointed.
> 
> He disappointed me! Argh!


Strong Christians don't hide that they are divorced because they want to look pious. Phony ones do. Real Christians have a relationship with God and know that that that is really what is important not what the people in the church thing. Especially if there was adultery. This guy is a looser, sorry I have no respect. Everyone who says he is passive is right. Not the one. Probably contributed to why he picked a women who would cheat on him in the first place. Passive men attract women who cheat. 

StartingOver I forget how long were you married? How long did you stay with your cheating husband? Was there other crap he also did to you like is usual with these types of men?

Can I ask you if you think you hold on too long to guys you know are not good for you? Is it because you don't feel like you are going to find anyone better?

The reason I ask is because I think your dating strategy is off, especially if you want to find a good partner. Some people don't understand but you need to see dating like the stock market. You only hold onto a stock as long as it is making you money. Once it starts losing you money you sell it. The same with guys you date. Thing is if you hold on you can end up wasting time and also missing out on better because you are stuck with one who is going down in value. 

Why are you even holding on to this guy. He isn't the one, you know you can't change people right? Did you try to change your ex too? In today's day and age depending where you live you have access to tens of thousands of men to choose from. You need to be choosy and have solid stuff that are just deal breakers. If I were you I would think long and hard about this and write it down. If a guy like this one for instance is being shady (which I am positive because of your history is a deal breaker) then you need to stick with you rules and dump the stock. 

That just it, as the stock goes down in value you just lose more an more money to eventually all it causes you is pain. You have to unload it. It's not your job to help him hold his value, he has to want to do that on his own. It's your job to make sure you hold or increase you value. If everyone felt that way there would be more worthy people out there. 

Think about it. Stop worrying and go and get your worth.


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## sokillme

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I know this sounds crazy. But I have never seen a dad as dedicated as he is. He raised his kids...his wife was aloof and self-centered, cold, uninterested in mothering...etc. All this is according to him, but I spend time with him and the kids, and I see that they prefer him to her, and they are nuts about him. That's why I kept going through all the questionable behavior. I figure, the way he treats his kids, is how he will treat me as we grow old together... ?


I know you didn't have a good experience with you ex if I remember but being dedicated to once kids should not be seen as a bonus. That is basically what all decent men are. So it's more like a requirement. You need to concentrate on the dynamics of you and him.


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## Beach123

StartingOverHopeful said:


> Yes, I found his divorce in the county court records. It was final last year, and the timeline he told me for filing/serving/final divorce is accurate with his telling.
> 
> He says he is "playing family" for time with his kids and to be nice to the bipolar ex-wife who holds their happiness ransom (all according to him).
> 
> I know this sounds crazy. But I have never seen a dad as dedicated as he is. He raised his kids...his wife was aloof and self-centered, cold, uninterested in mothering...etc. All this is according to him, but I spend time with him and the kids, and I see that they prefer him to her, and they are nuts about him. That's why I kept going through all the questionable behavior. I figure, the way he treats his kids, is how he will treat me as we grow old together... ?


Ok, so you have evidence his divorce was finalized. But it means nothing as long as he's still willing to act married to her!

He still ACTS married!

There is no room for you. He's squeezed you out by acting married to HER.

How he will treat you in the future is how he has treated you recently, believe that! 

Don't stay hoping he will change. Know he won't change!


----------



## EleGirl

NobodySpecial said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a way to be firm that would not rock the boat with her. Something like, "I have no interest in ever getting back with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just stop right there? Why is it important to him the whys now that they are divorced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cheated. I have photos and information from a PI that prove it. You denying it makes it even worse. Had you admitted it we might have been able to work things out. I will not ever share the photos and info with anyone because you the mother of my children and I do not want to hurt your relationship with them. But I know the truth. So please do not keep talking about getting back together. However we can work together to raise your children."
> 
> He does not have to be mean. He should be firm with he. He's passive aggressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with this. I would be really hesitant to get with a truth phobic person.
Click to expand...

I agree that he should be able to just say the first part.

The reason I suggested the rest of it is because, if she really did cheat, she is creating a fake story to cover for herself. She will continue to do this until it does not work for her.

He could make it not work for her if she really believed that he has solid evidence.


----------



## EleGirl

TheBohannons said:


> I have heard some piss poor excuses for dumping someone. Dumping a guy because *he refuses to see pictures of the woman he loved giving another guy a blowjob,* isn't just weak. It is pathetic.
> 
> Sorry, in reality, you are both just rebounds. Quit making excuses and look in the mirror. Move on, but stop blaming him for not doing something which may cause him additional pain.
> 
> What is your point? We just dont get it.


LOL, why do some here think that the PI photos would include pictures of the WW & OM having sex, engaged in BJ's etc? 

It's amazing how wild some people's imaginations are.

99% of the time, the photos that PI's get are taken outside. Photos of the cheaters at a restaurant acting all romantic, in a car together, going into or out of a home or hotel. 

What? Do some of you think that the PI committed crimes and took photos through windows, put hidden cameras in a hotel room, or some home bedroom? 

Geez.


----------



## EleGirl

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I think some misunderstanding is happening here. I agree it would be pathetic to dump him because he won't look at affair sex pictures!


Did he say that there are pictures of his wife having sex with some guy? It is highly unlikely that any of the photos were of her engaged in sex acts unless she was having sex in public. It is a crime for a PI to take photos of people in private settings such as bedrooms, hotel rooms, etc. It’s a felony and is punishable by years in prison.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> What I came on here to ask was, do you think this story is 100% the truth? Is it RATIONAL to hire a PI and then be satisfied with "sorry, man, but life goes on" and divorce your wife, with two minor children, based on that one sentence? (By the way, he says that IS ALL that the PI said to him). I posted on here because I didn't know if it was rational, because it's not how I would have behaved in this scenario, but I came on here to have people tell me it WAS rational if that's how they see it. I am a scientist by training so I live and breathe data--I make my living doing observations of the natural world drawing conclusions based on data. I would have either looked in the flash drive or asked the PI to describe what he had witnessed, or given it to my sister or a friend to look at. (But that's just me, that's why I came here, to throw out this question...)


I think that it’s crazy for him to divorce his wife based on the spoken sentence from a man he hired, "sorry, man, but life goes on". I think that most people would need more verification than just a few words.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> For the first 5 months of dating, I trusted my boyfriend's story that he had been cheated on, and I based my agreement to pursue movement towards getting engaged (he wants to get engaged this year) on that.


Getting engaged this year is not wise at all.

You need to date a man for a year before you talk about engagement. Then once engage wait another year before marriage. Why? Because when a couple first gets together they are in the infatuation phase, or the giddy feeling of in-love when you first meet someone you connect with. That’s a time when your brain starts pumping out and updating tons of dopamine, ocytocin and other feel-good hormones. Basically that in-love feeling is a chemical high a lot like taken cocaine. After a couple is together for about 18 months, the infatuation period ends, and their brain chemistry returns to normal. 

Oxytocin is called the “bonding hormone” and the “amnesia hormone”. It bounds a couple together, that’s what sex is for, to get large amounts of oxytocin in your brain. It’s an amnesia hormone because it puts you in a state of euphoria or rose colored glasses. When a woman gives birth, her brain produces and uptakes huge amounts of oxytocin. The purpose is so that she bonds with her baby and so that she forgets about the pain. I’ve read that were it not for oxytocin, there would never be a second child.

In the infatuation period of a relationship, with your brain happily saturated in dopamine and oxytocin, you will see your partner through rose colored glasses. You will over look all kinds of things that would raise red flags any other time. This is why you do not get engaged and marry too quickly. Get back down to earth before you do that.

*Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them : When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why* by Susan Forward and Joan Torres



StartingOverHopeful said:


> I only recently got suspicious because of what he has been telling me about his ex-wife's attempts at reconciliation. He NEVER pushes her away with "you cheated" and he says it's because she denies cheating. He won't tell her about the PI. I don't understand this? He says it is because he didn't disclose it to the lawyers as part of the divorce so why tell her. They are divorced. I get that. I, personally, just feel like humans have that "gift of fear" for a reason and we need to pay attention to it. Odd stories warrant a second look, that is all.


Yes odd stories do warrant a look. When words and actions differ, always believe the actions.

Years ago, after I left my abusive husband I went to counseling. At the intake meeting the counselor asked me what I hoped to get out of the counseling. I told her that I wanted to find out why I chose an abusive man to marry and how to prevent it from ever happening again.

She replied that it was easy to explain. A woman who has good boundaries will end a relationship the very first time the guy crosses the time. A woman who has weak boundaries will not. Instead she will make excuses for him, doubt herself, even make changes to herself to keep the peace. She said that I did not pick him, he picked me.

She went on to explain that the abusers pick a partner who will allow themselves to be abused. They start out with little tests. 
If the woman has good boundaries she will see that is behavior is out of line and end the relationship. 

If she does not have good boundaries then she will go through the self-doubting, excuses, etc. routine. And she stays. Then he will do another little test. And so, goes the cycle, with him testing and excalating to abuse and her, having weak boundaries, making excuses and self-doubting. 

An woman who will allow herself to be abuse will be the last woman standing with this guy. All the women who have strong boundaries will have walked out on him. He was looking for a woman with weak boundaries. She’s the last woman left standing.

I see your boyfriend pulling these little tests. First he tells you a story that makes no sense. And he demands that you trust him 100%. You make excuses and stay. You are conflicted and doubt yourself. You have weak boundaries.

Then he starts hanging out with his ex (he’s having an emotional affair with her for crying out loud). And he is pushing you to accept it. And here you are, with weak boundaries, making excuses for him. You are conflicted and doubt yourself. You have weak boundaries.
If you stick around, I wonder what his next test will be. 

Do you know what abuse is about? It’s about control. Keeping the target unsure of themselves, focused on their abuser so that the abuser maintains control. It’s started.

It is my opinion from what you have written here that you are no where near ready for a relationship. You were in an abusive relationship for years. You have been out of it for only a year. It takes a lot longer than that to heal. Further you need to get into counseling to learn how to spot this abuse cycle, how to set healthy boundaries and how to trust your gut.

You really have a lot to think through here.


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## EleGirl

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I should add to my above post... I know "sorry, man, but life goes on" suggests the PI saw cheating. However, it could have been other unsavory behavior on his wife's part, anything from flirting on Facebook to stealing money from her company. Right? Isn't this possible? My fear is that my boyfriend didn't ask "what does that mean?" because of his deep Christianity in an unhappy marriage leading him to 'want' a way out with "God's blessing."


This is probably true. It could have been a lot of things. He wanted an excuse and took it.

I think you need to look closely at his "deep Christianity". The thing he did with his child, hung out at his ex's house pretending to be a family in front of some Christian couple. That's called lying. It's also teaching his child to not accept realty and to lie. I find his actions disturbing relative to this.



StartingOverHopeful said:


> (I should mention, he is REALLY strong in his faith, even more so than I am...he told me that he wouldn't even consider marrying any woman who didn't have adultery as the reason for her divorce.)


So he would not marry a woman whose left her husband because he beat her? Or because he took all their money and ran off? Hm... 



StartingOverHopeful said:


> If he didn't get a divorce because of adultery, fine, that's fine with me, but he DID lead me to believe that is why. *To me, this is possibly deceptive.* And having been betrayed by an adulterer (with a love child that wrecked my kid's life too), I am a bit hyper-vigilant!


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## Beach123

I can't understand how he could possibly feel connected to you when he's so focused on his wife and the family unit looking together?

That would really suck knowing he's just filling that spot because he has an opening there - but that what he really wants is to still be a family and ... that it appears as if he would prefer to still be married to her.


I also would be concerned about his honesty and ability to communicate effectively. IF he was so hurt she cheated - wouldn't you think he would've been honest with her about that? Why wouldn't she know he divorced her because she cheated?

Did he initiate that divorce or did she? Is she dating someone now?


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## StartingOverHopeful

EleGirl said:


> Did he say that there are pictures of his wife having sex with some guy? It is highly unlikely that any of the photos were of her engaged in sex acts unless she was having sex in public. It is a crime for a PI to take photos of people in private settings such as bedrooms, hotel rooms, etc. It’s a felony and is punishable by years in prison.
> 
> I think that it’s crazy for him to divorce his wife based on the spoken sentence from a man he hired, "sorry, man, but life goes on". I think that most people would need more verification than just a few words.
> 
> Getting engaged this year is not wise at all.
> You need to date a man for a year before you talk about engagement. Then once engage wait another year before marriage. Why? Because when a couple first gets together they are in the infatuation phase, or the giddy feeling of in-love when you first meet someone you connect with. That’s a time when your brain starts pumping out and updating tons of dopamine, ocytocin and other feel-good hormones. Basically that in-love feeling is a chemical high a lot like taken cocaine. After a couple is together for about 18 months, the infatuation period ends, and their brain chemistry returns to normal.
> 
> Oxytocin is called the “bonding hormone” and the “amnesia hormone”. It bounds a couple together, that’s what sex is for, to get large amounts of oxytocin in your brain. It’s an amnesia hormone because it puts you in a state of euphoria or rose colored glasses. When a woman gives birth, her brain produces and uptakes huge amounts of oxytocin. The purpose is so that she bonds with her baby and so that she forgets about the pain. I’ve read that were it not for oxytocin, there would never be a second child.
> 
> In the infatuation period of a relationship, with your brain happily saturated in dopamine and oxytocin, you will see your partner through rose colored glasses. You will over look all kinds of things that would raise red flags any other time. This is why you do not get engaged and marry too quickly. Get back down to earth before you do that.
> 
> Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them : When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why by Susan Forward and Joan Torres
> 
> Yes odd stories do warrant a look. When words and actions differ, always believe the actions.
> 
> Years ago, after I left my abusive husband I went to counseling. At the intake meeting the counselor asked me what I hoped to get out of the counseling. I told her that I wanted to find out why I chose an abusive man to marry and how to prevent it from ever happening again.
> 
> She replied that it was easy to explain. A woman who has good boundaries will end a relationship the very first time the guy crosses the time. A woman who has weak boundaries will not. Instead she will make excuses for him, doubt herself, even make changes to herself to keep the peace. She said that I did not pick him, he picked me.
> 
> She went on to explain that the abusers pick a partner who will allow themselves to be abused. They start out with little tests.
> 
> If the woman has good boundaries she will see that is behavior is out of line and end the relationship.
> 
> If she does not have good boundaries then she will go through the self-doubting, excuses, etc. routine. And she stays. Then he will do another little test. And so, goes the cycle, with him testing and escalating to abuse and her, having weak boundaries, making excuses and self-doubting.
> 
> An woman who will allow herself to be abuse will be the last woman standing with this guy. All the women who have strong boundaries will have walked out on him. He was looking for a woman with weak boundaries. She’s the last woman left standing.
> 
> I see your boyfriend pulling these little tests. First he tells you a story that makes no sense. And he demands that you trust him 100%. You make excuses and stay. You are conflicted and doubt yourself. You have weak boundaries.
> 
> Then he starts hanging out with his ex (he’s having an emotional affair with her for crying out loud). And he is pushing you to accept it. And here you are, with weak boundaries, making excuses for him. You are conflicted and doubt yourself. You have weak boundaries.
> If you stick around, I wonder what his next test will be.
> 
> Do you know what abuse is about? It’s about control. Keeping the target unsure of themselves, focused on their abuser so that the abuser maintains control. It’s started.
> 
> It is my opinion from what you have written here that you are no where near ready for a relationship. You were in an abusive relationship for years. You have been out of it for only a year. It takes a lot longer than that to heal. Further you need to get into counseling to learn how to spot this abuse cycle, how to set healthy boundaries and how to trust your gut.
> 
> You really have a lot to think through here.



Wow, you are right. Several years ago, I read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" but it seems I had forgotten some of the subtle indicators of controlling men. I think he is using covert means to manipulate and control me...it just took a while to show up and/or for me to see it. Yes, my exH (married 25 years, his affair the last 6) did force me to remove all boundaries in that relationship. I was in individual counseling when I was making the decision to file for divorce, and I learned how to set boundaries...that's how I finally filed (my H would have just liked to stay married and have cake). But of course once I started dating this man, who had so many traits I was looking for, I slipped back into my old ways.

Oh--and to answer your first question--no, he never implied there were explicit photos on the flash drive. He HAS NO IDEA what is on the flash drive! He never took it. He never even asked what was on it.


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## Beach123

Added to it all that he disrespected your wishes by not taking your word when you said you wanted to end it. 

It's possible he just doesn't like being alone. 

Either way, do NOT consider marrying him anytime soon - years maybe after he proves he is worthy!

Have you had sex with him? (this is important!)


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## Malaise

StartingOverHopeful said:


> Oh--and to answer your first question--no, he never implied there were explicit photos on the flash drive. He HAS NO IDEA what is on the flash drive! He never took it. He never even asked what was on it.


He ended his marriage with no real proof of her cheating.

And if you marry him and some years later someone says you did something inappropriate, without proof, will he divorce you?


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## PigglyWiggly

StartingOverHopeful said:


> This ^^^ is EXACTLY what he says. He says the PI was just to confirm what he suspected and he "knew" from the statement, "I'm sorry, man, but life goes on" as the packet was handed to him, that was all needed to know. When he told me this, I replied, "All you know is that the PI found something unsavory, but he didn't actually say, 'I saw her with another man.' "


I don't buy it...you open the envelope and she is at the mall eating lunch with HER BROTHER.....oh my false alarm. You pay 3500 for evidence you won't look at? That just doesn't seem like the actions of a reasonable man.


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## rv10flyer

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I need opinions from men, especially men whose wives cheated on them--or I guess any man who could imagine what that might feel like...
> 
> I am a 50 year old woman, one year post-divorce from a 25-year marriage ended by my ex's affair. For a few months now I have been dating a great guy I met on a Christian dating site. He told me right upfront that he was divorced because his wife had been unfaithful and she filed for divorce, so he got out without fighting for the marriage because "he lost all love for her and was released from the covenant of marriage because of her adultery." That made made sense to me.
> 
> Recently I was asking him about his experience of cheating (because mine was really traumatic, my exH waffled for years and it ended with OW getting pregnant) and he told me his story of discovery. He said that he had suspected for a few weeks due to her phone behaviors, etc, so he hired a private investigator. However, when I asked him what the PI had found, he told me he couldn't look in the envelope!!! He told me that he had paid the PI a $3500 retainer and two days later the PI gave him an envelope with a flash drive in it and said, "I am sorry man, but life goes on," and that my boyfriend refused to take it. My boyfriend told me that he didn't want to see the OM because it would create mind movies and he might feel jealous or try to get him fired, etc., so he knew what he needed to know to get the divorce and that is all that mattered. (Nevertheless, his ex would never admit to cheating...denied it up and down and every which way.)
> 
> It seems bizarre to me that my boyfriend did not look in the envelope, especially because my boyfriend has two kids under 13 and the OM might be brought around them. I said, didn't you want to know who she might bring around your kids? He said no because he knew their relationship wouldn't last.
> 
> He also did not use infidelity as the reason for divorce, supposedly because he was fighting for 50/50 custody and had to be nice to his ex to get that.
> 
> Recently his ex has been asking to reconcile and she's hounding him with these thoughts every time she sees him at kid's functions. He keeps telling me the reasons he gives her for not reconciling ("we fought all the time...," "you couldn't handle money...") and when I ask, why don't you just tell her it's the infidelity? He responds, because she doesn't admit to it.
> 
> My Spidey Sense is tingling that something is not right here. Thoughts?


Just because he says he is a Christian and you met him on a Christian dating does not mean he is following God’s word and living a Christ-like life. How much does he read the Bible, Christian books and devotionals? Does he listen to K-Love on the radio? Does he want to go to Christian concerts? How often do you go to church together? Where did he go to church before his divorce? Stop by and ask the church leadership about his history? Has he tried to put the moves on you or has he shown you respect in the few months you have known each other? 

My wife had an affair with a preacher that had 8 yrs behind the pulpit last year that nearly destroyed my life, our two families and his church family. He gave sermons three times each week to 250 people, even on excessive drinking and adultery, all with a smile. While his wife sat on the front pew and sang 3’ away from my wife in the choir. Needless to say, I don’t trust any man in a position of power, trust or authority. And very few people at all right now. Yes, even Christians like myself. I became my own private investigator and saved the $3500. I wanted proof and lots of it to provide his wife and church elders. The whole community knew shortly after he was fired. His wife divorced and burnt him good. We are reconciling and doing better everyday.

The truth always comes out in the light. He may hide it from you, but God knows what he is up to and you will in time. I will be praying for you and your future.


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## Beach123

I worked with a skilled therapist after my 23 year marriage ended.

I was told to DO actions that sent the proper message.

Actions and words that sent the message to my exH and kids that we were no longer married! Anything else is just confusing to them!

I took steps to indicate I was a separate entity than him - that meant on every level I needed to show I was not still any part of him.

Even IF we were at the same place at the same time I made sure I was viewed as a gal that wasn't with HIM! I stayed pleasant and neutral - but separate! Get it? 

Your guy isn't doing this! He's sending a clear message he's still very much connected to her! It's not healthy for anyone! 

My gut says he doesn't want to be divorced from her. Who initiated that divorce?


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## BluesPower

Beach123 said:


> My gut says he doesn't want to be divorced from her. Who initiated that divorce?


That is kind of the funny thing, he filed on evidence that he would not look at. Just took the PI's word about it with out any details. 

And on top of that he plays family with his Ex???


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## Beach123

Have you ever asked him if he's ever had sex with his ex since they separated?

I'd bet money he has.


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## EleGirl

For those who think that the cd with evidence would have been images of her having sex....

https://www.pinow.com/articles/456/what-a-private-investigator-cannot-do


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## StartingOverHopeful

I want to thank EVERYONE who posted on my thread. It gave me the confidence to have real conversations with my boyfriend which basically led to him taking me through two days of text messaging with deflecting, blame-shifting, projecting, isolating, gas-lighting, stonewalling, crazy-making, and belittling like nothing I thought he was capable of. It was like an alien had taken over his body as I read these texts. Then when I would point out discrepancies in his explanations, he would go silent and not respond to texts or calls. (This is a man who had clearly love-bombed me so hard, there was rarely a 12-hour period where we wouldn't text or talk...). He says I am crazy, that I will never trust so he can't be with someone like me, and that I need God and therapy. He made a complete turn from a loving, gentle, "Christian" man who was pressuring me to getting engaged, to someone who is abusive, manipulative, and hurtful. Wow.

I thought I knew narcissism, but he elevated it to a level I had not seen before.

Live and learn. I need to do more reading so this doesn't happen to me again 

OH...and by the way....now that I see him for an NPD, I see the "playing family with ex-wife" time differently. I think spending time with his ex (and telling me she wanted to reconcile, whether or not that was true) was his way of TRIANGULATING. Lots of supply for his ego.

He's a master...


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## Openminded

Good for you!

Glad the mask came off now instead of much later.


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## EleGirl

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I want to thank EVERYONE who posted on my thread. It gave me the confidence to have real conversations with my boyfriend which basically led to him taking me through two days of text messaging with deflecting, blame-shifting, projecting, isolating, gas-lighting, stonewalling, crazy-making, and belittling like nothing I thought he was capable of. It was like an alien had taken over his body as I read these texts. Then when I would point out discrepancies in his explanations, he would go silent and not respond to texts or calls. (This is a man who had clearly love-bombed me so hard, there was rarely a 12-hour period where we wouldn't text or talk...). He says I am crazy, that I will never trust so he can't be with someone like me, and that I need God and therapy. He made a complete turn from a loving, gentle, "Christian" man who was pressuring me to getting engaged, to someone who is abusive, manipulative, and hurtful. Wow.
> 
> I thought I knew narcissism, but he elevated it to a level I had not seen before.
> 
> Live and learn. I need to do more reading so this doesn't happen to me again
> 
> OH...and by the way....now that I see him for an NPD, I see the "playing family with ex-wife" time differently. I think spending time with his ex (and telling me she wanted to reconcile, whether or not that was true) was his way of TRIANGULATING. Lots of supply for his ego.
> 
> He's a master...


Amazing to see it happen, isn't it. He had a choice to respond in a different manner. Instead he showed his true colors.


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## Faithful Wife

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I want to thank EVERYONE who posted on my thread. It gave me the confidence to have real conversations with my boyfriend which basically led to him taking me through two days of text messaging with deflecting, blame-shifting, projecting, isolating, gas-lighting, stonewalling, crazy-making, and belittling like nothing I thought he was capable of. It was like an alien had taken over his body as I read these texts. Then when I would point out discrepancies in his explanations, he would go silent and not respond to texts or calls. (This is a man who had clearly love-bombed me so hard, there was rarely a 12-hour period where we wouldn't text or talk...). He says I am crazy, that I will never trust so he can't be with someone like me, and that I need God and therapy. He made a complete turn from a loving, gentle, "Christian" man who was pressuring me to getting engaged, to someone who is abusive, manipulative, and hurtful. Wow.
> 
> I thought I knew narcissism, but he elevated it to a level I had not seen before.
> 
> Live and learn. I need to do more reading so this doesn't happen to me again
> 
> OH...and by the way....now that I see him for an NPD, I see the "playing family with ex-wife" time differently. I think spending time with his ex (and telling me she wanted to reconcile, whether or not that was true) was his way of TRIANGULATING. Lots of supply for his ego.
> 
> He's a master...


Just PLEEEZE hold tight and refuse to talk to him from now forward. In the case he comes back and tries to spin everything somehow. He will likely try eventually!!! Don't fall for it, you have seen who he really is.

I am only saying this because I've known a couple of people who were with NPD's but they did go back a couple of times, being guilted into it or just plain duped. The NPD's can really seem convincing when they are trying to get you back....it is the same act they started on you with only even more calculated and evil. 

So glad you figured this out and can move on!! Never look back!


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## Faithful Wife

StartingOverHopeful said:


> They have two kids under 13 that he basically raised because she is a self-centered, *career focused NPD (according to him)*.


Isn't it interesting how they show their hand like this? Project their actual issues/disorders on someone else. So blatant.


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## Beach123

Have you told him you're not seeing him anymore?

Be aware - he may beg... these types like a solid woman and an additional backup plan. You're going to leave a vacancy... they don't like being alone = mainly because they need a victim. 😳


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## PigglyWiggly

wait until the religious guilting starts...and it will


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## 3Xnocharm

I am so glad you got him figured out before putting in more time with him. Good for you for listening to your gut that things didn't add up with his PI story!


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## Beach123

StartingOverHopeful said:


> I want to thank EVERYONE who posted on my thread. It gave me the confidence to have real conversations with my boyfriend which basically led to him taking me through two days of text messaging with deflecting, blame-shifting, projecting, isolating, gas-lighting, stonewalling, crazy-making, and belittling like nothing I thought he was capable of. It was like an alien had taken over his body as I read these texts. Then when I would point out discrepancies in his explanations, he would go silent and not respond to texts or calls. (This is a man who had clearly love-bombed me so hard, there was rarely a 12-hour period where we wouldn't text or talk...). He says I am crazy, that I will never trust so he can't be with someone like me, and that I need God and therapy. He made a complete turn from a loving, gentle, "Christian" man who was pressuring me to getting engaged, to someone who is abusive, manipulative, and hurtful. Wow.
> 
> I thought I knew narcissism, but he elevated it to a level I had not seen before.
> 
> Live and learn. I need to do more reading so this doesn't happen to me again
> 
> OH...and by the way....now that I see him for an NPD, I see the "playing family with ex-wife" time differently. I think spending time with his ex (and telling me she wanted to reconcile, whether or not that was true) was his way of TRIANGULATING. Lots of supply for his ego.
> 
> He's a master...


I'm glad you now have had the opportunity to know the real version of him.

It's terrible that he would do it this way instead of having a simple, honest conversation with you.

It shows how dishonest he's been. When a person has nothing to hide - they don't hide anything... and they certainly don't deflect etc to attempt to make the person asking feel bad that they asked.

He reminds me of my exH - so believe me you dodged a bullet!

I always say that a person shows their true colors when a disagreement comes up... they are either a person who fight fair or they aren't. If they aren't then I don't need them anymore!

A true Christian man acts Christian and there's no need to tell everyone they are Christian. Talking the talk but acting differently doesn't cut it.

Hope you are doing well...he's not the man he portrays himself to be.


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## rv10flyer

Beach123 said:


> I'm glad you now have had the opportunity to know the real version of him.
> 
> It's terrible that he would do it this way instead of having a simple, honest conversation with you.
> 
> It shows how dishonest he's been. When a person has nothing to hide - they don't hide anything... and they certainly don't deflect etc to attempt to make the person asking feel bad that they asked.
> 
> He reminds me of my exH - so believe me you dodged a bullet!
> 
> I always say that a person shows their true colors when a disagreement comes up... they are either a person who fight fair or they aren't. If they aren't then I don't need them anymore!
> 
> *A true Christian man acts Christian and there's no need to tell everyone they are Christian. Talking the talk but acting differently doesn't cut it.*
> 
> Hope you are doing well...he's not the man he portrays himself to be.


Yes, This ^^^^^


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## giddiot

Glad you rooted out the truth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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