# His Sexual Fantasies: Abnormal or Is It Me? This Is Breaking Our Marriage.



## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

My husband and I have never been sexually matched. He really doesn't know how to make love to a woman and clearly lacks sexual confidence (even though he's been having sex since he was 13 and has more partners than he can count). 
To be fair, sex has never been a big driver for me, although at times I enjoyed it, I've never had an orgasm during the act itself; other ways yes, but not during actual sex.

For him, sex is a primary driver; he even chose his career after watching "Shampoo" and seeing how much sex Warren Beatty's character was getting. 

Sex has never been great but we found middle ground and although we didn't have it as much as he wanted (he'd prefer everyday if possible), it was good the couple of times a week we did have it

Until October 2014 

Then he had the dream....

He dreams of sex A LOT and sometimes they repulse me but after awhile he lets them go. Not this time. 
He dreamt my breasts came out of my shirt in a place crowded with young teen boys (14-15). I let them start touching me and eventually I willingly let them all have sex with me, one after another, sometimes two at a time. In his dream I absolutely love it and it totally turns me on to be chained by all these boys.
My husband watches but dddly, unlike any other man I've known (and I was in the NAVY), when the boys are all done he comes in LAST - he LIKES the "sloppy seconds". 

This fantasy has since consumed him. He can't perform without thinking about it, can't obtain an erection and can't sustain one without thinking about it. He often has to talk it out during sex to finish the job. Many times he even asks me to participate by responding and acting it out the way he sees it in his dream. I just can't do it. 

It has RUINED our sex life. We fight about sex all the time now. I've told him how dirty it makes me feel and he's tried to have sex without; tell himself he's over it, but when he can't perform trying to make love to me, he just goes back to it. 

The bad thing is, I don't get anything out of sex and he always wants me on top. He has never liked being in charge and now I do all the work. 

But wait... there's more. 

Recently we got an Italian Mastiff puppy, who is now 140 lbs and full of raging hormones. 
My husband's mind just went to places I never could have imagined and now he fantasies about me letting our dog mount me. 

He always tells me he would NEVER want any of his fantasies to be real - they are just in his head but he does find them curious and erotic. I find them utterly disgusting and sadly, even though my husband is a sexy, muscular, very handsome man, I am completely turned off to him sexually now. 

I can't stand him touching my in any sexual manner and I used to love his affections. Any petting or touching in a sexual manner makes my skin crawl. 

Here's the thing, I've told him I've never known a man to have fantasies like this and although there are, I've read they are a very small majority and it's not indicative of a healthy sex mindset. 

So I'm asking the masses - Men especially

Are his fantasies normal? Should I let them bother me as bad as they do? Is it just me being a prude who lives in her own fantasy world of happily-ever-after passionate love making or is this really just wrong?
Or is it just wrong for US since I don't like and he does?

I feel demoralized and have to get drunk to have sex with my husband. Please help. :frown2:


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Lots of people have fantasies, and some of those fantasies are extremely twisted. In general I think if there is a good relationship, people should feel safe talking about their fantasies BUT (and this is a HUGE BUT) should not expect their partners to engage in those fantasies. 

I think it is good to play to your partner's fantasies TO SOME EXTENT - but that assumes that they are doing the same for you.

His fantasies of your being exposed to boys is pretty far out IMHO because of the pedophilia aspect. Roleplaying age-play can be OK, but it has to be something both people are in to - and most are not. If he needs this fantasy to enjoy sex, then it has become a "fetish" - and a rather troubling one. 

Sex with animals is also in the "forbidden" category. Not that rare a fantasy, but not something most people would or should discuss. I could imagine some couples role-playing it if they both enjoyed it. Most people would not enjoy it. 


I think the key is that letting your partner know your fantasy is not itself bad - but harping on it, or pressuring them to do it IS a big problem. Once you have made it clear you don't share these fantasies, he should drop them. 


The other problem is that it sounds like he is not doing all he can for YOU. If he were doing his best to do everything he could for you in bed, then I would at least have some sympathy for him telling you his fantasies. I might suggest ways you could play to his fantasies without actually engaging in anything gross or illegal. But it sounds like he is NOT doing what you want in bed, so his asking for exotic things seems way out of line.


You are not being a prude. You have every reason to expect happily-ever-after lovemaking with your husband. The great majority of sex should be things that you both enjoy. 

If you were getting all the passionate romantic sex you wanted, if once in a while he wanted you to role-play (not actually do) a fantasy, maybe you should consider it, but that isn't the situation.


One question - have you made it clear to him that you find his fantasies disturbing and don't want to hear about them again?

I know that a few times I asked my wife for something and she responded with something to the effect of "not this time", but it took a while to realize that it was something she *never* wanted to do - which is OK as long as I knew.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

I can't speak for others. They do not seem normal at all to me. I can't imagine fantasizing about any of it. The dog part is particularly bizarre. I hope you don't have kids. It may get worse, to the point where you may want out.

I can't offer anything as far as helping you in your situation, just answering the question.

Sorry.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Normal?

Its not normal for me. 

Kinda repulsive to me. I think hes been watching too much porn.

These are porn movies. A bunch of young guy lining up taking their turn. 

A giant dog mounting his wife. 


Yea now he has to play out this fantasy of sloppy seconds to orgasm.


Thats a fetishe. Don't think you can change fetishes off. 

Read the definition of fetishe.

If having an enjoyable sex life is important to you then leaving might be the only answer.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Hello Uhtred - thank you for such a thoughtful and honest reply. 
Yes, I have told him over and over again for the last few years, his fantasy makes me feel dirty and like a wh0re. He HATES when I refer to it that way because he says in his mind, it's not me being a teasy-***** at all; it's because I'm so beautiful and every boy wants me. 

We've talked, screamed, hollered about this and on several occasions he said he finally understood how I felt and he was sorry it made me feel that way; he never wanted me to feel dirty. Then he says he's over it; the fantasy is gone. 
Unfortunately this isn't the case. He always comes back to it because it's the only thing that helps him finish the job. 

He has never seemed confident in his ability to make love to a woman. When he's tried, it was clunky and frustrating. I would try to walk him through what I liked, how I liked to be touched (softer here, more there, etc) and he just never gets it. 

Now he feels guilty about sex all the time and I feel dirty. 

I have seen post after post on the forums from men who are frustrated from living in sexless marriages. I understand my husband is a man - he's part of the male species and has base needs. So even though I'm at a place, at least with him, where I could happily do without sex for the rest of my life, I know he needs and I don't withhold it from him - even if I have to fake it to make it. 

What's really pushing me over the edge is his fantasy with me and our dog. I can't go there even in pretend. 

I try to be fair, but to be honest, it makes me feel dirty. He knows it, but I think in his mind, he now feels stuck because he can't perform without his fantasies. 

It's a horrible cycle.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Not a man. I think this sounds horrible. He just wants everything his way. It also sounds like his dreams are suspiciously very vivid like maybe he's actually seen them say watching porn.

Personally I'd divorce him. I would never be able to rid myself of the loathing I'd feel for him.
But should you not want to divorce then sex therapy.

The therapist should be able to help your sexual life have more balance. Perhaps teach him not to be so selfish.

Oh and just 'Yuck'


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Our youngest is 19 and still at home. Thankfully he's grown. Sadly, in all other ways my husband is very sweet, attentive, romantic; tells me I'm how beautiful I am every day and how lucky he is. 

It's like being on a roller-coaster all the time.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

anastasia6 said:


> Not a man. I think this sounds horrible. He just wants everything his way. It also sounds like his dreams are suspiciously very vivid like maybe he's actually seen them say watching porn.
> 
> Personally I'd divorce him. I would never be able to rid myself of the loathing I'd feel for him.
> But should you not want to divorce then sex therapy.


Vivid - I would completely agree. He'll fixate on them and can recall them in minute detail. At times, like the one with the boys, it became an obsession. The point where the week after he had it, I refer to that week as the "sexorcism"


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DelicateFlower said:


> My husband and I have never been sexually matched. He really doesn't know how to make love to a woman and clearly lacks sexual confidence (even though he's been having sex since he was 13 and has more partners than he can count).
> 
> To be fair, sex has never been a big driver for me, although at times I enjoyed it, I've never had an orgasm during the act itself; other ways yes, but not during actual sex.


About 75% of women cannot orgasm from PIV sex. This is normal.

Women usually need stimulation of the clitoris to orgasm. It's hard to get that during intercourse. This is why foreplay is usually important to women.

Here is a book that you and your husband would benefit from reading.....

*She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman* by Ian Kerner


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

I doubt is has much to do with the teens or the dog in particular. He's been in a marriage with someone that doesn't really like sex, so he's developed a fantasy of you being hypersexual. You want sex so badly you're willing to be ravished by a group of horny boys. You need sex so badly you'll have sex with a dog, etc. Maybe try to think of a fantasy that you're comfortable with that expresses the same dynamic of you being a person that wants and needs sex.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> About 75% of women cannot orgasm from PIV sex. This is normal.


I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. I've told him this and he doesn't believe me. 
I've also told him, I've had MANY conversations with men about sex, especially during my NAVY days and his fantasties aren't normal. 

He simply tells me, I'm not a man, I can't understand and any man who tells me differently is lying. There's nothing wrong with having fantasies especially since he would never want them to happen in real life. 

Thank you for your feedback!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How often does he help you orgasm when you have sex?

If you tell him that you like something or don't like something, does he pay attention to you and follow through?


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Townes said:


> I doubt is has much to do with the teens or the dog in particular. He's been in a marriage with someone that doesn't really like sex, so he's developed a fantasy of you being hypersexual.


I used to like sex. Even though I couldn't orgasm during sex, we got to a point where we both enjoyed it and many times I initiated it (sorry, should have clarified that). When he had this initial dream, he became fixated - practically obsessed by it, to a point that it ruined how I felt about sex. But you are right, he does tell me it's probably my fault because I no longer like sex, even though I've told him, this fantasy was the catalyst for that. 

I'm sure it cyclical now.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

DF,

As a man I've never had either of those fantasies. The idea of anyone else with my W repulses me.

They sound borderline gay.

Tamat


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> How often does he help you orgasm when you have sex?
> 
> If you tell him that you like something or don't like something, does he pay attention to you and follow through?


He used to all the time - even though he would try to follow-through with what I was telling him, he struggled. He has had more partners than he can count in his lifetime and it always baffled me how he seems so clueless how to navigate a woman's body; even when she's telling him EXACTLY what to do. 

Now, I don't want him touching me anymore. Where I used to love when he would help me orgasm and we've have sex (even me begging for it after), I can't stand his touches now. 
I know his fantasies have scarred me psychologically - it's all in my mind that his touches make my skin crawl, but I'm finding it very difficult to overcome, especially since he is constantly in his fantasy mode.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

I wasn't trying to blame you for the situation. Sorry if it came across that way. I don't think you're at fault. Just kind of a chicken and egg dynamic in your marriage. Cyclical like you said.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I would say his fantasies are a sick....not normal at all......having sex with teenage boys...jail time and bestiality is a crime...poor dog

Your husband is nasty....whats keeping you married to him...since he makes your skin crawl?


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Townes said:


> I wasn't trying to blame you for the situation. Sorry if it came across that way. I don't think you're at fault. Just kind of a chicken and egg dynamic in your marriage. Cyclical like you said.


Don't fret a bit. I didn't get that from your message at all. I just wanted to clarify. I only wish I would have come here and posted sooner. The refreshing insights and feedback have been so helpful. 
:wink2:


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

brooklynAnn said:


> I would say his fantasies are a sick....not normal at all......having sex with teenage boys...jail time and bestiality is a crime...poor dog
> 
> Your husband is nasty....whats keeping you married to him...since he makes your skin crawl?


It's a strange situation for sure. It's like living with two people - Jeckyl and Hyde. When he's not in "sex mode" he's the kind of husband most women dream of. He's affectionate, attentive, helpful around the house (I am forbidden to do laundry or clean bathrooms), lathers me with love and thoughtfulness. 

I'm constantly on a roller-coaster emotionally and psychologically. 

I can't lie, I often wonder if leaving him is the better option.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

"Normal" is not the word you should be asking about here. 

What you need to be concerned about here is whether any of this is in remotely HEALTHY.

In your case, he is repulsing you and it is driving a huge wedge between you and destroying your sexual and even your personal connection with him.

This is not healthy at all. Not. At all.

Have you ever come right out and told him that his sexual deviancies are repulsing you and turning you completely off to any kind of sexual activity with him?

If you have not, you need to ASAP and preferably while in marital counseling with a professional.

If you have and he continues to discuss this with you, then it is borderline abuse IMHO.

I know that is a strong statement but if you have honestly told him that him putting his fantasies of pedophilia and beastiality and stuff into is causing you distress and repulsion and offence and he continues to do it - that is a form of abuse.

He is a sick pup. 

Why haven't you terminated this relationship?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You are not being at all unreasonable, he is.

The fantasy thing is not a male / female thing. People just vary in the types of fantasies that they have - but most quickly learn what sorts of fantasies their partners are open to and what they are not - and then don't push the unwanted ones. 


From my point of view:

I've told my wife about a few fantasies. She has been OK playing along with a couple. Unfortunately she has a habit of reacting somewhat badly to the ones she doesn't 'want to do. I wish she would just nicely let me know that she didn't want to do those things - and then I would't bring it up again. Its important though to separate being nice from being unclear. There is a big difference between "I don't feel like doing that *now*" and "I don't want to do that *ever*". If its the second, then its much better to say so. 

Still fantasies can be a real minefield. What seems reasonable to one person can seem horrible / perverted to another. Its pretty well known that a lot of people have rape fantasies (either as attacker or victim), but clearly that is hugely offensive to some people. 


To me though, fantasies are something you think about indulging in once the rest of your sex life is great. Worrying at all about his fantasies when he hasn't yet learned how to please you in bed seems completely wrong. His first priority should be learning what things you like and doing them. Then worry about introducing fantasies into the mix. 

When a fantasy / kink becomes required for sexual release, it has become a fetish (I think by definition). That is a huge problem if someone's partner isn't into that fetish.

I fully understand your being horrified by the dog thing. A question - do you think he actually wants you to do it, or it is just sort of an abstract fantasy that he wants to role play? This might be similar to a rape fantasy where someone absolutely doesn't want to be raped, but wants to pretend. 

If he is serious about wanting you to have sex with a dog, then he has a really faulty idea of reality. Whatever people may fantasize about, that is a really fringe sort of sexual behavior, far off of what most people would consider normal.


One other question: his fantasies can be seen as humiliating for *him* or putting him in some sort of submissive situation. Is it possible that is actually his kink? There might be roleplay games that would let him be submissive but which would not be offensive to you.

Still, if he isn't willing to learn to please you, all this other stuff seems completely inappropriate. 





DelicateFlower said:


> Hello Uhtred - thank you for such a thoughtful and honest reply.
> Yes, I have told him over and over again for the last few years, his fantasy makes me feel dirty and like a wh0re. He HATES when I refer to it that way because he says in his mind, it's not me being a teasy-***** at all; it's because I'm so beautiful and every boy wants me.
> 
> We've talked, screamed, hollered about this and on several occasions he said he finally understood how I felt and he was sorry it made me feel that way; he never wanted me to feel dirty. Then he says he's over it; the fantasy is gone.
> ...


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Have you ever come right out and told him that his sexual deviancies are repulsing you and turning you completely off to any kind of sexual activity with him?


Yes, many, many times. We have argued so many times over it, I've over it. 
the weird thing is, he KNOWS how it makes me feel. Several times, he's apologized for it because he never intended for his fantasies to make me feel dirty (at least not the boy-gang-bang-one. the dog one is new). Several times he has told me that now that he understands he's over it. The fantasy is gone and from now when we have sex, it's just him and me. 

Sadly he can't finish the job without his fantasy and I've gotten to the point when I tell him during sex to go there, talk it out, do whatever he needs since I'm doing all the work. 

I know he feels guilty about it, because he tells me he does but he will also never consider counseling. 

We are on this carousel of sexual torture.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

uhtred said:


> A question - do you think he actually wants you to do it, or it is just sort of an abstract fantasy that he wants to role play?


No, he definitely wouldn't want me to do it, but I did test him once and tell him "I considered it just to make him happy, what else do I have to lose, I've already given up everything but my dignity" and he replied "that would have been so cool, even though I wouldn't have let you go through with it" so, part of me thinks he would be totally open to the reality of it. 

As for the boys, no. He adamantly tells me he would never want that to be real, not even my breast come out. Although, part of this IS grown from a real moment when we first met. It was 23 years ago and I was out washing the car one day. There were a couple of boys (13-15 yo) playing nearby and while I was bending over to vacuum the car, my shirt hung down and my breasts were totally visible to the boys. I was completely unaware of it or the fact the boys were getting a full show of my boobs. Hubby says he saw the whole thing and it's apparently engraved itself on his mind because after 23 years he still obsesses over this one moment and it totally turns him on. 



uhtred said:


> One other question: his fantasies can be seen as humiliating for *him* or putting him in some sort of submissive situation. Is it possible that is actually his kink?


I haven't seen this since his fantasies area always about me being in humiliating situations. 

Years ago he had a dream/fantasy about me being naked in a parade (and I'm going to say this as he described it so please forgive any insensitivity here) and there are two mentally retarded boys in the crowd. I invite them onto the float and knowing they will most likely never get the experience on their own, I let them both F**k me, right there, during the parade. 

I've told him, all of his fantasies are of me being in self-degrading situations and he must want to see me humiliated or punished for something. But he gets very angry and adamant about that not being the case. 

If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well then.....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

One thing you learn as you get older is that people are ****ed up. I mean women have rape fantasies, Men have teacher fantasies. I don't get half of the stuff people are into. I personally think people are what they are and as long as they are just fantasies it's unfair to treat them like they are acting out the fantasy. Now he should have been smarter then to tell you them. 

The bigger problem is that he seems selfish and self centered when it comes to having sex with you. If he is not worrying about getting you off and then he is telling you he is fantasizing about you with your pet. Gross. These are very degrading things. He also just plain sucks in bed. Bet he is watching lots of porn too. None of this is good. 

"We are on this carousel of sexual torture."

How ironic as there are some members here who would say just that is their fantasy is.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You can make a reasonable case for insisting on counseling or you will leave. He has a fetish that is destroying your sex life - that is a really big deal. 

Another approach before giving up (if you can stomach it) is to see if he can tell you what he is looking for - why do these particular fantasies excite him, in order to see if there are things that don't bother you that would serve the same purpose. Unfortunately there may be nothing in that category. 

If your sex life is sufficiently broken, you may just have to end it. That would be sad, but I don't see how you can be happy together with this big a divide.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like it’s well past time for you to give this guy the boot.

Seriously, he sounds pretty ****ed up.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

sokillme said:


> The bigger problem is that he seems selfish and self centered when it comes to having sex with you. If he is not worrying about getting you off and then he is telling you he is fantasizing about you with your pet. Gross. These are very degrading things. He also just plain sucks in bed. Bet he is watching lots of porn too. None of this is good.


I do wish he never would have told me. 
He used to care about pleasuring me and I used to like him doing it. Granted he was never good at it and giving me an orgasm was hit or miss with him, but at least there was give and take. Pleasing a woman has never been his strong point but I never told him he was bad, I just tried to guide him to what I personally liked. 

Once the gang-bang fantasy came along everything changed. It became his focus, his fetish and now the only thing that gets him off. 

I had learned to deal with the boy-fantasy, if for no other reason than to give him relief and keep his pawing and petting to a minimum (both things I used to enjoy thoroughly and now both gross me out). 
but the dog fantasy I can't abide by. That's too much for me. 

And yes, he used to watch a TON of porn. Now he just masterbates at least once a day (according to him and now that he's said it, he denies it). 

A house of mirrors.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Another approach before giving up (if you can stomach it) is to see if he can tell you what he is looking for - why do these particular fantasies excite him, in order to see if there are things that don't bother you that would serve the same purpose. .


Thank Uhtred. 
I can stomach that. I'm not a woman who doesn't understand the needs of a man and, like so many women I read about on these forums, forcing my man to live in a sexless marriage (I swear I was a guy in a last life LOL) . 

23 years is a long time with one person to just throw away because of sex. It's only one block in the foundation of marriage, and not necessarily a cornerstone. 

(PS: The Last Kingom is an amazing show!)


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't know if anything can be done about this, but you are right it is not normal. He is mistreating you. The only way this might (big might) be able to be resolved is through counseling. If that doesn't help him, I'd recommend you consider divorce rather than staying with a man who clearly isn't interesting in honoring you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DelicateFlower said:


> He used to all the time - even though he would try to follow-through with what I was telling him, he struggled. He has had more partners than he can count in his lifetime and it always baffled me how he seems so clueless how to navigate a woman's body; even when she's telling him EXACTLY what to do.
> 
> Now, I don't want him touching me anymore. Where I used to love when he would help me orgasm and we've have sex (even me begging for it after), I can't stand his touches now.
> 
> I know his fantasies have scarred me psychologically - it's all in my mind that his touches make my skin crawl, but I'm finding it very difficult to overcome, especially since he is constantly in his fantasy mode.


Often, when a guy has had a lot of sex partners, that simply means that he had what amounts to quickies with a lot of women. Usually with brief encounters, there is not a lot of wanting to make his partner enjoy the sex. I've even heard a lot of men say that if they has something like a one night stand, they don't feel that they are obligated to consider the woman at all. That she was stupid enough to let him stick it in and they don't care about her because she's that stupid.

I can understand why you feel the way you do about your husband now, I would most likely react the same way you are to what he's been doing.

Someone said pointed out that the basis of is these fantasies are that you want sex, really want sex nd will do whatever to have it. I agree that this is probably at the core of it. But what he does not seem to understand is that to really want sex with him, he has to really care that you get something out of the sex too. He does not understand that he has to participate in getting you to want to have sex with him.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

I can certainly understand why you feel like he must want you to be degraded and humiliated by the nature of these fantasies, but I doubt that's how he feels about them. Probably the opposite actually. I'm just speculating here, but he might see a part of himself in these images. Teenagers, horny dog, mentally challenged boy. All horny, frustrated, impotent males that can't have sex unless this goddess figure grants it to them. In his own misguided way he probably sees these fantasies as empowering to you.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Tell him your fantasy is to see him get pounded by the dog and you can't see him as sexy again until he does.


Your a very understanding woman, I doubt many women would put up with this bull****.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> I would say his fantasies are a sick....not normal at all......having sex with teenage boys...jail time and bestiality is a crime...*poor dog*


You mean poor wife!!!



brooklynAnn said:


> Your husband is nasty....whats keeping you married to him...since he makes your skin crawl?


I second this. 
This would be a deal breaker for me if my spouse was like this.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Speaking as a man: I would be appalled at the notion of my wife having sex with other men. The other part that's weird about his fantasy is that he seems to like the idea of wallowing in the semen of teenage boys (and the dog?). Sorry, that's just not marriage material in my eyes.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

Forgive me, but something makes no sense.

People can have fantasies in their own heads and the partner doesn't need to know a thing about it. So something is missing from your story. He has to talk through this fantasy while he is doing it, or what?

My wife has a fantasy I have to talk her through about every other day. The other days I know she runs it through her mind anyway but she loves for me to make the story up for her. 

It adds nothing to sex for me, and it can be tiresome. But it works. I love her and so I do it for her.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

@DelicateFlower,

in these fantasies of your husbands, how are YOU reacting? is he fantasizing about a bunch of hormonal boys running a train on you while you dont want it, or is he fantasizing about you absolutely loving it? with the dog, has he described it as something where the dog forces you, or does he describe it as something that, in the fantasy, turns you on?

the reason why i am asking is because you said that he lacks confidence when it comes to sex. he wants you on top, you do all the work. 

i am wondering if these fantasies are born out of his insecurities in his own abilities to please you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

He's sick. I'd lay odds you'd run screaming if you knew what goes on in his head that he doesn't say out loud. I think this has passed the point of no return. Stop having sex with him. He's a pig and you're not getting anything out of it anyway. Why keep seeing to his "needs" when he doesn't see to yours? As far as I'm concerned, you were justified in cutting him off when he first started talking about gangbangs with children.

If you're unwilling to leave him, then let him know that you aren't interested in sex with him anymore, do not want him verbally vomiting his sick fantasies all over you, and that if he finds it unacceptable he is free to file for divorce.

Too bad you can't tattoo his forehead so the next chick doesn't think he's a great guy, get attached, and go through the crap you've put up with for so long.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Townes said:


> I'm just speculating here, but he might see a part of himself in these images. Teenagers, horny dog, mentally challenged boy. All horny, frustrated, impotent males that can't have sex unless this goddess figure grants it to them. In his own misguided way he probably sees these fantasies as empowering to you.


Oh wow! I never thought about it like that and knowing that he is so insecure about his ability to truly connect sexually with a woman and have MATURE sex, this completely makes sense. It also aligns with why he always gets mad at me when I refer to it as me being degraded, filthy or him just wanting to see me in humiliated situations. 

It also aligns with his dream of me being in the parade and letting the two mentally retarded boys do me right there on the parade route. In his mind he wants the world to see me in "all the beautiful glory" he sees me but HE in the boy. 

Wow!! that may have just hit the nail on the head. :surprise:


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> He has to talk through this fantasy while he is doing it, or what?


Precisely! He's learned that I hate having to listen to it while we're having sex, especially since I do all the work, so he stays quiet most of the time now, but it definitely reduces his pleasure. When he talks it out and is "living" his fantasy while we have sex the whole experience and his pleasure is far greater. 



[email protected] said:


> It adds nothing to sex for me, and it can be tiresome. But it works. I love her and so I do it for her.


Same, same and same! It's just gotten so old and now he can't perform without his fantasies so where we used to have some measure of balance (give and take), that is all gone. The scales have completely tipped over.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DelicateFlower said:


> Oh wow! I never thought about it like that and knowing that he is so insecure about his ability to truly connect sexually with a woman and have MATURE sex, this completely makes sense. It also aligns with why he always gets mad at me when I refer to it as me being degraded, filthy or him just wanting to see me in humiliated situations.
> 
> It also aligns with his dream of me being in the parade and letting the two mentally retarded boys do me right there on the parade route. In his mind he wants the world to see me in "all the beautiful glory" he sees me but HE in the boy.
> 
> Wow!! that may have just hit the nail on the head. :surprise:


Who cares? No, really, who cares? Who cares why he is the way he is when the way he is is so repugnant? So now you may know why he has such sick fantasies. That knowledge doesn't change what turns him on. Plenty of men felt horny and frustrated and insecure. The vast majority would not channel that into fantasies of their own wife having group sex in public with children and/or the mentally deficient and certainly wouldn't contemplate bestiality.

This is a Humpty Dumpty situation. All the Kings horses and all the Kings men can't fix him. Hell, if the King's horses and the King's men showed up to try he'd be telling you how hot it would be to see you screw both the men and the beasts.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> @DelicateFlower,
> 
> in these fantasies of your husbands, how are YOU reacting? is he fantasizing about a bunch of hormonal boys running a train on you while you dont want it, or is he fantasizing about you absolutely loving it?


I'm loving it; totally into, love the attention, the more boys the merrier. I'm teasy and encouraging them. 



As'laDain said:


> with the dog, has he described it as something where the dog forces you, or does he describe it as something that, in the fantasy, turns you on?


The very idea of this repulses me on such a visceral level I've never let talk about details of any dreams or fantasies of me with the dog. I just can't go there. 



As'laDain said:


> the reason why i am asking is because you said that he lacks confidence when it comes to sex. he wants you on top, you do all the work.
> 
> i am wondering if these fantasies are born out of his insecurities in his own abilities to please you.


I completely agree! Another commenter said this and it totally lit a lightbulb for me; one I never thought about before. 
There's no question my husband completely adores me and loves me to the moon and back, he tells me everyday, multiple times and anyone can look at him when he says it and knows he means it. 

He has so many other insecurities that he wears on his shoulder like a monkey, I never connected his fantasies with them however. 

Now it completely makes perfect sense. 

The question now, is what to do about it especially since he would NEVER consider counseling .


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> Who cares? No, really, who cares? Who cares why he is the way he is when the way he is is so repugnant? So now you may know why he has such sick fantasies. That knowledge doesn't change what turns him on. Plenty of men felt horny and frustrated and insecure. The vast majority would not channel that into fantasies of their own wife having group sex in public with children and/or the mentally deficient and certainly wouldn't contemplate bestiality.
> 
> This is a Humpty Dumpty situation. All the Kings horses and all the Kings men can't fix him. Hell, if the King's horses and the King's men showed up to try he'd be telling you how hot it would be to see you screw both the men and the beasts.


I agree. He doesn't like people in his head because, Hell, I don't think HE likes being in his head. I too don't see him ever getting over his insecurities and I think I'll have to make some hard decisions in the near future. 

BTW - the Humpty Dumpty analogy :grin2: it's true but also perfect. Thanks for the first laugh I've had about this.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DelicateFlower said:


> I agree. He doesn't like people in his head because, Hell, I don't think HE likes being in his head. I too don't see him ever getting over his insecurities and I think I'll have to make some hard decisions in the near future.
> 
> BTW - the Humpty Dumpty analogy :grin2: it's true but also perfect. Thanks for the first laugh I've had about this.


I'm glad I made you laugh. Random laughter has gotten me through some pretty dark times.

What it boils down to is that your options are to stay and accept this is your life (with or without continuing to have sex) or leave. Personally, I'd leave. I've been through some thing similar. The psychological damage took a long time to heal.

In my world view, a man who loved his woman would be mate guarding, terrified to lose her to another man, not actively entertaining ideas of her with other men. Hearing group sex and gangbang fantasies during sex made me feel less than worthless, as if I wasn't enough, as if I am somehow lacking. I started to wonder what was wrong with me. Why wasn't I valued by my partner? I also wondered why someone who claimed to be deeply in love with me would want to pass me around like a snack tray at a Super Bowl party.

I eventually realized that the only thing wrong with me was an emotional attachment to someone who didn't actually love me (the verb) in the way he said (the noun) he did. His version of love was..twisted and incomplete.

I think you may need to explore counseling on your own. Find out why you are continuing to tolerate this. I suspects it's a combination of sunk cost fallacy and severely low self esteem/fear of being alone which may have been caused by hearing his drivel when you're at your most vulnerable.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

DelicateFlower said:


> Thank Uhtred.
> I can stomach that. I'm not a woman who doesn't understand the needs of a man and, like so many women I read about on these forums, forcing my man to live in a sexless marriage (I swear I was a guy in a last life LOL) .
> 
> 23 years is a long time with one person to just throw away because of sex. It's only one block in the foundation of marriage, and not necessarily a cornerstone.


Your husband might be thinking that this is not such a big deal because it's only a fantasy. People generally do not wish for their most wildest fantasies to happen in real life. Therefore when you speak to your husband about this, he very well may be telling the truth if he says that he would absolutely against it if the situation presented itself in real life.

This doesn't solve all the problems, but it may be a start to see that his fantasies and what he actually would like to do are very different.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You posted earlier that you saw the fantasies as humiliating to you. I think I agree, but I've also realized that I really don't understand other peopel's kinks or how they think about them. I could also see them as being humiliating to him - with his wife preferring young boys or even a dog to him. (that doesn't make this OK - regardless of source of his fantasy, he absolutely should not be pressuring you with it). 

Since as you say leaving a long marriage because of sex is difficult, I think its worth at least trying to get to the root of this all. 

You said he insists that these fantasies are not about humiliating you. If you can take that at face value, can he say what they are about? Or maybe they really are just about humiliation but he isn't willing to say that. 

Have you ever told him your fantasies - if you have any "interesting" ones? How did he react. 

Depending on your personal interest, you could see how he reacted to a fantasy where you were dominant. I don't know if you are at all into that, or whether he is describing dominant or submissive fantasies. Maybe he wants to be a sex slave of a goddess? (I don't know - mostly he just seems really broken). 


In the end though, I think you want to find a way to fix this or to leave. I've been in a marriage with a poor sex life for 30 years now. Poor in this case is just badly mismatched desires - no ones fault, no disturbing fantasies or requests. Still its been really tough for both of us. For many people sex is really vital to a romantic relationship. Its not the "most important" thing, but to me it is a link in a sort of romantic chain (no I'm not getting kinky) - its one of several things required for many people to feel romantic love. Don't dismiss its importance .

One comment: I think you should completely avoid any hint that you might actually go along with his fantasies (since you won'd do so). Those hints / comments along with his his strange sexual bias, may make him think that you you might be really considering it. You don't need to call him a pervert (even if by most definitions he is), but I'd suggest a very clear, inflexible "no" to these suggestions.

The dog thing bothers me because he is talking about "your" dog as opposed to some generic beast fantasy. To me that makes me think he is serious. 

Its really terrible that you are in this situation. From your posts you sound like a very nice, reasonable person - you deserve better. 




P.S. The last kingdom is based on a set of books that I think are even better than the show - which itself was excellent. Sadly I'm just a middle-aged nerdy scientist guy, not the indomitable Uhtred of Bebbanburg.





DelicateFlower said:


> Thank Uhtred.
> I can stomach that. I'm not a woman who doesn't understand the needs of a man and, like so many women I read about on these forums, forcing my man to live in a sexless marriage (I swear I was a guy in a last life LOL) .
> 
> 23 years is a long time with one person to just throw away because of sex. It's only one block in the foundation of marriage, and not necessarily a cornerstone.
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DelicateFlower said:


> I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. I've told him this and he doesn't believe me.
> I've also told him, I've had MANY conversations with men about sex, especially during my NAVY days and his fantasties aren't normal.
> 
> He simply tells me, I'm not a man, I can't understand and any man who tells me differently is lying. There's nothing wrong with having fantasies especially since he would never want them to happen in real life.
> ...


Well have him talk to some of us. Man here. Very sexual and HD to boot.

I think your husband has a very unhealthy fixation and I can only guess at the root problem.

He would greatly benefit from some counseling or therapy.

Everyone fantasizes at least a little and it is mostly healthy and fun. Even mentally exploring some dark or disgusting fantasies can help round someone out but his fixation is over the top. He can't climax without imaging you, mother, wife and lover, getting bestialized? 

He is ill and needs help.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Fantasies are just that, when we daydream about a better life, the suitcase on the train we find is stuffed with cash, a celebrity that that wants us as a partner, they are just that, fantasies. What you are going through is a sickness, the twisted man you share your life with is eeking out his wild desires in the form of sexual fantasies, this is worrying as he is being more bizarre and looking for your participation and acceptance of these requests. My instinct is that this situation will only deteriorate to the point where you will question your future with this man, my advice is get him to get serious help, a break from sex full stop, re-engagement with him on a level that makes him the husband you want, where he needs to step up to meet your expectations, only then can you think about getting back into a sexual relationship that doesn't involve depraved acts of fantasy that is unthinkable to most healthy people.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

DelicateFlower said:


> The question now, is what to do about it especially since he would NEVER consider counseling .


His attitude and behavior is hurting you. It is his responsibility to do something to stop hurting you. If he refuses to seek help and show that he has resolved it and has changed, then I don't know why you would want to stay with him. Sure he says he loves you to the moon and back, but what you have described is not loving. It is degrading and scary. I actually had a nightmare about this that woke me up last night, no kidding.

You may not realize how seriously messed up this is and how seriously this has degraded your marriage, because you have been living in this and trying to survive through it all. But make no mistake, your marriage is not healthy and your husband is not being a loving husband with this behavior.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DelicateFlower said:


> I'm loving it; totally into, love the attention, the more boys the merrier. I'm teasy and encouraging them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok... 

so, there is a lot you can probably do. but, none of it will be easy, since it will require you and your husband to step outside of your comfort zones. more so him than you i think. and no, im not going to suggest you play into his fantasies. that wouldn't work anyway. he would just get even more fixated on them. rather, the goal would be to give him ways that he can get the part of the fantasy that he craves without the parts that you cannot stomach. this may not be very easy at all though. 
*
first question though, is he interested in knowing YOUR fantasies?* i ask that because he may not realize that he can get a large part of his fantasy met (the enthusiasm and fulfillment on your part) by simply understanding YOUR turn-ons and acting accordingly. and if he does not seem all that interested, do you think he is willing to learn them and learn _about_ them?

second question: would he be willing to come to this forum?


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

The dog thing is gross.

The other one is sort of gross too. Maybe you can not wear a bra in public. I've seen chicks in white tank tops sans bra lately. Maybe that will be enough for him?


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

I will suggest the dog and the boy train or DD kids thing was something he saw in a porn video at one or several times. I am going to say I had some crazy dreams that I wouldn't do in real life but they were very erotic. 

I had a dream recently where the ceiling of a room I was in was dripping some green slime that would eventually kill me. My point is dreams can be so far from reality and to judge a person on their dreams doesn't make the person good or bad. Wanting to act out the dream is another thing, which I wouldn't ask anyone to do, so I keep my dreams to myself.

If your H needs to talk out his dreams or fantasies, I would suspect something is going on with his ability to climax or maybe the early signs of some future ED issue. If he tells you he doesn't watch porn anymore, I would suspect her might but is too embarrassed to admit he does OR he feels you wouldn't approve. 

He does sound insecure if he feels he can't be reasonably honest with you. I know the feeling. I wasn't allowed to express my feelings or opinions as I grew up. I did as I was told and that included being reminded that kids are to follow instructions and need to be seen but the kids also need to be silent.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

DelicateFlower said:


> Precisely! He's learned that I hate having to listen to it while we're having sex, especially since I do all the work, so he stays quiet most of the time now, but it definitely reduces his pleasure. When he talks it out and is "living" his fantasy while we have sex the whole experience and his pleasure is far greater.
> 
> 
> 
> Same, same and same! It's just gotten so old and now he can't perform without his fantasies so where we used to have some measure of balance (give and take), that is all gone. The scales have completely tipped over.


Thank you. Same here. 

Sometimes I say to myself "I hope she doesn't make me tell the story" and I think she can tell I don't want to do it, so she does not ask. But it takes her a really long time to climax on those days and she has to stop and start again a few times.

I would be really careful with people imputing their own psychology onto fantasies. First of all, everyone can call the vast majority of fantasies "sick" for one reason or another. Surveys show a lot of them are flat out illegal, like rape fantasies, and would put people in prison for many years were they to be acted out in real life. And it is both men and women who have these fantasies.

I would especially steer clear of the "degrading" meme when it comes from other people. This is the go-to meme for putting people down. Sex itself is "degrading" according to some, along with porn, threesomes - whatever it is the speaker wants to put down he calls "degrading". A woman without a hajib is "degrading" in Wahhabism and grants the viewer the right to rape her. I won't relate my wife's fantasies but it is guaranteed to be called "degrading" by many people here. 

I don't need to figure out the psychology of my wife's peculiar fantasy. It trips her trigger and I am in the business of making my wife happy. Cleaning out the sink traps, busting my fingers doing engine mechanics, shoveling snow - these are not fantasies of mine either but they make my wife happy and in return she does a lot of stuff for me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OP, you deserve to have sex with someone who wants to be close and intimate with the real you during sex. Not someone who can't even get off without teleporting his psyche far far away from the real you.

I had a lover who would tell me wild crazy fantasies during sex sometimes and it really turned up the heat for both of us. At other times he would just be stroking my hair looking in my eyes and telling me how beautiful I am while he got off. My point being that the fantasy talk alone isn't the problem. The problem is he personally isn't connecting with you personally through sex...he's sending his mind away to connect with a fantasy you who doesn't exist.

That would be so hurtful. I would refuse altogether to ever have sex with someone who wasn't even really "there" with me.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Townes said:


> I doubt is has much to do with the teens or the dog in particular. He's been in a marriage with someone that doesn't really like sex, so he's developed a fantasy of you being hypersexual. You want sex so badly you're willing to be ravished by a group of horny boys. You need sex so badly you'll have sex with a dog, etc. Maybe try to think of a fantasy that you're comfortable with that expresses the same dynamic of you being a person that wants and needs sex.


this might be close to the truth.
how about doing some bizarre and kinky stuff, but stuff that would not turn you off so much.
like tie him naked to a chair. dress up in black leather, with spike heel boots, buy a riding crop, and discipline him. Show that you enjoy sexually dominating him. Demand he do what YOU want from now on. If he suggests some sort of bizarre sexual thing that you do not approve of, lock his penis in a chastity cage, wear the key on a necklace around your neck, and only let him out when he starts obeying you again.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Townes said:


> I'm just speculating here, but he might see a part of himself in these images. Teenagers, horny dog, mentally challenged boy. All horny, frustrated, impotent males that can't have sex unless this goddess figure grants it to them. In his own misguided way he probably sees these fantasies as empowering to you.


this. he needs YOU to take charge of his sexual life. You do not have to orgasm yourself. Just control every aspect of his sex life from now on. research up on Femdom...there are plenty of examples of how to do it all over the internet. look up how to become his Domme, and him your submissive sex slave. You just have to act like you are enjoying it to make him happy. And who knows....you might enjoy it too. sounds like the plain vanilla sex you do NOT enjoy at all.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Townes, asladain and talker are all over this. I agree it's his attempt to empower you as a highly sexual being in his mind, based on your "sex has never been a big driver for me" comment, and also perhaps to create proxies that are more skilled at pleasing you than he thinks he is. 

He needs to understand that his way of addressing his frustration and perceived inadequacy is self-defeating because it's disrespecting & turning you off, and you need to find a way to look past the surface reality of "this is sooo sick and degrading!" so you can at least view him with compassion instead of judgmental revulsion, even if you can't ever make this particular fantasy work for you. Try to stay positive, seek counseling, and redirect all this energy into some form that's a turn-on for both of you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> I can't speak for others. They do not seem normal at all to me. I can't imagine fantasizing about any of it. The dog part is particularly bizarre. I hope you don't have kids. It may get worse, to the point where you may want out.
> 
> I can't offer anything as far as helping you in your situation, just answering the question.
> 
> Sorry.


I agree. The dog one especially is sick.

I suspect he is getting all of this stuff from porn, and I have to wonder what sick stuff he is actually watching. The first step would be for him to stop all porn use. 
I can understand how this must make you feel. He is not treating you or seeing you as precious and special but as a means to an end for his sick fantasies. The fact that he has had so much casual sex from such a very young age wont have helped. 
Not sure what the answer is, it may be that you will need to end the marriage, especially if he refuses to stop the porn.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

DelicateFlower said:


> Then he had the dream....


From my perspective that sounds more like a nightmare.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

The first one I maybe kind of get as a fantasy. While it’s not for me, to each his own as fantasies go. But I just can’t get past the dog thing. I feel your reaction is spot on. You shouldn’t have to get drunk to enjoy sex with your husband. Something isn’t right there. Fantasies are normal and healthy but it sounds like his are in the driver seat of his sexual relationship with you. If that is not ok with you then it needs to stop.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I watch porn. Maybe this stuff exists if you go searching for it, but its not something you are going to run into randomly. The underage boys is certainly illegal, beast stuff may be as well.






Diana7 said:


> I agree. The dog one especially is sick.
> 
> I suspect he is getting all of this stuff from porn, and I have to wonder what sick stuff he is actually watching. The first step would be for him to stop all porn use.
> I can understand how this must make you feel. He is not treating you or seeing you as precious and special but as a means to an end for his sick fantasies. The fact that he has had so much casual sex from such a very young age wont have helped.
> Not sure what the answer is, it may be that you will need to end the marriage, especially if he refuses to stop the porn.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

HMM, shows how differently people react to fantasies. For me the first one is the most disturbing, has pedo stuff in it. The second is way far away from anything I'd ever do, but animal fantasies aren't all that rare. 




stro said:


> The first one I maybe kind of get as a fantasy. While it’s not for me, to each his own as fantasies go. But I just can’t get past the dog thing. I feel your reaction is spot on. You shouldn’t have to get drunk to enjoy sex with your husband. Something isn’t right there. Fantasies are normal and healthy but it sounds like his are in the driver seat of his sexual relationship with you. If that is not ok with you then it needs to stop.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I watch porn. Maybe this stuff exists if you go searching for it, but its not something you are going to run into randomly. The underage boys is certainly illegal, beast stuff may be as well.


No you dont run into it innocently, but its there if you want it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Objectively he's gone too far to tolerate. And as you've told him it's too far and he doesn't indicate "yep you're right" and move in a different direction it shows it could be dangerous to your health and we'll being.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sorry, not normal. I think stuff like this is a result of porn addiction. I hope he can get some spiritual and psychiatric help and you can remain married.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Steve1000 said:


> Your husband might be thinking that this is not such a big deal because it's only a fantasy. People generally do not wish for their most wildest fantasies to happen in real life. Therefore when you speak to your husband about this, he very well may be telling the truth if he says that he would absolutely against it if the situation presented itself in real life.
> 
> This doesn't solve all the problems, but it may be a start to see that his fantasies and what he actually would like to do are very different.


This is EXACTLY what he says...almost word for word. I'm his goddess and he'd kill anyone who ever tried to touch me. He's learned to keep his fantasies in his head while we have sex, which I'm grateful for. All of the advice and insight here, and just finally getting this out in the open, has helped so much.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Have you ever told him your fantasies - if you have any "interesting" ones? How did he react.
> 
> Depending on your personal interest, you could see how he reacted to a fantasy where you were dominant. I don't know if you are at all into that, or whether he is describing dominant or submissive fantasies. Maybe he wants to be a sex slave of a goddess? (I don't know - mostly he just seems really broken).


I'm a diehard romantic at heart really, maybe even live in my own fantastical world because I see, hot, steamy sex on TV or movies and just once wish it was like that. BUT, with this said, I did test him once. During sex and while he was talking out the boy-train-fantasy I started talking about how they were just a couple of virile, sexy, hard-bodied men, how they were touching me etc... and
it totally turned my husband off and he even got mad. He said something like "I knew you fantasized about sex with other men". I didn't even get mad or respond because I was just testing him and he responded exactly as I expected him too. It really just confirms this is all more about his own insecurity to perform and please a woman, than about me being in degrading situations. 




uhtred said:


> In the end though, I think you want to find a way to fix this or to leave. I've been in a marriage with a poor sex life for 30 years now. Poor in this case is just badly mismatched desires - no ones fault, no disturbing fantasies or requests. Still its been really tough for both of us. For many people sex is really vital to a romantic relationship. Its not the "most important" thing, but to me it is a link in a sort of romantic chain (no I'm not getting kinky) - its one of several things required for many people to feel romantic love. Don't dismiss its importance .


Why is something so base-natured so difficult for humans? 



uhtred said:


> One comment: I think you should completely avoid any hint that you might actually go along with his fantasies (since you won'd do so). Those hints / comments along with his his strange sexual bias, may make him think that you you might be really considering it. You don't need to call him a pervert (even if by most definitions he is), but I'd suggest a very clear, inflexible "no" to these suggestions.


Good advice and I completely agree. 

The dog thing bothers me because he is talking about "your" dog as opposed to some generic beast fantasy. To me that makes me think he is serious. 


uhtred said:


> Its really terrible that you are in this situation. From your posts you sound like a very nice, reasonable person - you deserve better.


I really, really try to be. My soft-heart tends to get me into trouble. I have often felt like I have an invisible flag waving over my head that says "PEOPLE PLEASER. CARPET STAMPERS WELCOME!" that only insecure and selfish people can see. 
Thank you Uhtred for your kind words.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> His attitude and behavior is hurting you. It is his responsibility to do something to stop hurting you. If he refuses to seek help and show that he has resolved it and has changed, then I don't know why you would want to stay with him. Sure he says he loves you to the moon and back, but what you have described is not loving. It is degrading and scary. I actually had a nightmare about this that woke me up last night, no kidding.
> 
> You may not realize how seriously messed up this is and how seriously this has degraded your marriage, because you have been living in this and trying to survive through it all. But make no mistake, your marriage is not healthy and your husband is not being a loving husband with this behavior.


Thank you CynthiaDe - I am terribly sorry for the bad dreams. I'd send hugs and brownies if I could.  - I agreed with your assessment and am getting to the point where I'm not sure I can see myself living with him as we get older. He lives a life driven by his insecurities and I'm tired of sacrificing so much to make him feel "safe". Without counseling I believe he is doomed to ride his merry-go-round of misery forever and I'm just ready to get off.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> ok...
> 
> first question though, is he interested in knowing YOUR fantasies?[/B] i ask that because he may not realize that he can get a large part of his fantasy met (the enthusiasm and fulfillment on your part) by simply understanding YOUR turn-ons and acting accordingly. and if he does not seem all that interested, do you think he is willing to learn them and learn _about_ them?
> 
> second question: would he be willing to come to this forum?


A. Yes he would BUT my fantasies involve amazing sex with HIM (because it's all I've ever wanted) or sex with a sexy, virile, sexually confident man who's just comfortable in his own skin. The first, he can't give and the second makes him mad because it stokes his insecurities (mostly because I understand now from all the amazing insight here, he recognizes he can't be that man)

B. Unicorns would stampede though the streets before that would happen. Even though he could be completely anonymous here, he would feel total humiliation (and anger) that I shared this here and wouldn't want hear what people would say because he is already perceived as "the bad guy".


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

DelicateFlower said:


> Thank you CynthiaDe - I am terribly sorry for the bad dreams. I'd send hugs and brownies if I could.  - I agreed with your assessment and am getting to the point where I'm not sure I can see myself living with him as we get older. He lives a life driven by his insecurities and I'm tired of sacrificing so much to make him feel "safe". Without counseling I believe he is doomed to ride his merry-go-round of misery forever and I'm just ready to get off.


Don't worry about it. TAM is read at your own risk and I'm fine now.

The thing is, you don't feel safe. Marriage should be a safe harbor. When it's not, something is wrong. You are not responsible for his personal issues and personal choices, especially when he is trying to make you responsible for meeting his perceived needs that are hurting you.

I believe in the sanctity of marriage and I believe it should be for life, however, should is not always realistic. Not when your spouse has become someone who is a danger to your emotional, mental, or physical health. He could do something about this, but instead he is shifting his responsibility to you and expecting you to acquiesce to his perversions.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

DelicateFlower said:


> I really, really try to be. My soft-heart tends to get me into trouble. I have often felt like I have an invisible flag waving over my head that says "PEOPLE PLEASER. CARPET STAMPERS WELCOME!" that only insecure and selfish people can see.
> Thank you Uhtred for your kind words.


Kinda strange to be paraphrasing my grandmother here, but she was the wisest person I have ever known. It was something she told me a couple of times about women with "gentle souls" (e.g. soft-hearts). A woman with a gentle soul was a gift. If I were blessed enough to find one in my life, it was my obligation to guard her against people who would take advantage. She was old school that way and really shaped my worldview re: women and relationships. She was a gentle soul but her life was shaped by some very unfortunate events. 

So many times I've seen women with "gentle souls" treated badly by selfish an insecure people, and it makes me angry when I see it. Maybe a bit off topic but I just putting it out there. I really hope that you can work through this, you do seem to be a gentle soul.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I have not read all of the replies, so I apologize if what I say has already been discussed. 

Although he may not understand this himself and may argue to the contrary, your husband's fantasies both involve you being "taken" by somebody/something else. Whether by being taken by teen boys or taken by a dog, he still fantasizes of you in a submissive role. I'm not psychiatrist, but this thought process is not uncommon. 

My concern isn't so much that he fantasies about such things as much as it is an overpowering thought that impacts your sex life. The fact that he won't believe you on the orgasm thing and work with you also is a major concern.

There may be a middle ground for both you in regard to domination, but it would have to be discussed and agreed to. However, you may want to see a sex therapist for the other issue.

Assuming you have masturbated at some point in your life, you likely know what you need to have an orgasm. I would recommend perhaps letting your husband watch and help.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DelicateFlower said:


> A. Yes he would BUT my fantasies involve amazing sex with HIM (because it's all I've ever wanted) or sex with a sexy, virile, sexually confident man who's just comfortable in his own skin. The first, he can't give and the second makes him mad because it stokes his insecurities (mostly because I understand now from all the amazing insight here, *he recognizes he can't be that man*)
> 
> B. Unicorns would stampede though the streets before that would happen. Even though he could be completely anonymous here, he would feel total humiliation (and anger) that I shared this here and wouldn't want hear what people would say because he is already perceived as "the bad guy".


the real problem is that he _thinks_ he cannot be that man. he has an image of how you would respond to him if he really _were_ that man. its self defeating because he sees you responding to him and convinces himself that he must just not be able to do it for you, when really its his own insecurities about it that are getting in the way. 

just out of curiosity, does he drink when you two have sex?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If only humans were better and finding well matched partners. 

There are men who enjoy hot romantic sex. It may not have Hollywood lighting and makeup, but it can be really great. I wish you were with someone who enjoyed that.

Your husband could probably have found someone who shared his rather esoteric kinks.

It just seems that there is a huge range of human interest in sex. The whole "straight" / "gay" axis really doesn't come anywhere close to describing the range of interests. Combine that with social rules that prevent discussing sexual interests early on meeting someone, and it has the makings for a disaster.

Worse, many people (including myself) never realized that this was a problem before getting into a long term relationship. 


From your description, I think you are right that its just about degrading you. I wonder why he can't say that. (I mean he is able to say he wants you to have sex with a dog, so its not like he's being shy about his desires.....). There are some people who are into being degraded, but its not something that should ever be asked of someone who doesn't have that kink.











DelicateFlower said:


> I'm a diehard romantic at heart really, maybe even live in my own fantastical world because I see, hot, steamy sex on TV or movies and just once wish it was like that. BUT, with this said, I did test him once. During sex and while he was talking out the boy-train-fantasy I started talking about how they were just a couple of virile, sexy, hard-bodied men, how they were touching me etc... and
> it totally turned my husband off and he even got mad. He said something like "I knew you fantasized about sex with other men". I didn't even get mad or respond because I was just testing him and he responded exactly as I expected him too. It really just confirms this is all more about his own insecurity to perform and please a woman, than about me being in degrading situations.
> 
> 
> ...


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> the real problem is that he _thinks_ he cannot be that man. he has an image of how you would respond to him if he really _were_ that man. its self defeating because he sees you responding to him and convinces himself that he must just not be able to do it for you, when really its his own insecurities about it that are getting in the way.
> 
> just out of curiosity, does he drink when you two have sex?


No he rarely ever drinks and actually gets upset when he knows I've had alcohol before sex, because he knows that's usually the only time I drink it.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

TX-SC said:


> Assuming you have masturbated at some point in your life, you likely know what you need to have an orgasm. I would recommend perhaps letting your husband watch and help.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Yes and I've always tried to teach him what I like, how to touch me, how much pressure, where to touch me etc. Sometimes he got lucky but to be honest it really felt like teaching a new virgin boy and no matter how much I tried he just never got it. 
He flounders so badly trying to please a woman and I think this is because, before me he's never had to please a woman; he's never cared what she wanted because he's never loved another woman. He looked for as many holes to land a shot as he could find. 
I'm truly the first person he's ever "made love" to and I've tried to teach him, but he just doesn't get it. I'm at the point now where I've told him not to.


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## DelicateFlower (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> OP, you deserve to have sex with someone who wants to be close and intimate with the real you during sex. Not someone who can't even get off without teleporting his psyche far far away from the real you.
> 
> ... The problem is he personally isn't connecting with you personally through sex...he's sending his mind away to connect with a fantasy you who doesn't exist.
> 
> That would be so hurtful. I would refuse altogether to ever have sex with someone who wasn't even really "there" with me.


Thank you for saying so. 
I never really thought about it like that, "not connecting with me personally". It rings true. 
Everyone here has provided so much helpful insight, suggestions and support - I am ever grateful for finding this site and having the courage to post. 
You are all such a blessing!


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

I've only read your replies and skipped half of the other responses here so forgive me if someone has already pointed this out. A couple of issues here:

1) Your husband has inadvertently planted two thought seeds in your head: one with the boys and one with the family dog. He comes back to water it every once in a while, and though he may or may not know it, one of the results of that is that it wears you down little by little, to the point where you finally entertain it via talking about it during sex or outright making it a reality. You should enforce your boundaries and your standards, and not give in to either of these fantasies of his, because as a man, I can tell you both are some sick stuff. I've ready the accounts of many divorced wives who regret letting their husbands talk them into opening up their marriage, engaging in the swing/hot wife lifestyle. The wives resisted at first but were eventually worn down by their husbands continually bringing it up every once in a while. The end result is those lifestyles wreck their marriages. The women mourn their choices but have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

2) Your husband used to watch a lot of porn and still masturbates once a day. I've read where porn rewires a person's brain, and like an addictive drug, the user needs a higher dosage to get the same effect. Porn users go from softcore to hardcore to even extreme stuff like sex with animals. Your husband needs to stop both the porn and the masturbation, and save up his pent-up sexual energy for you. As you can see, his vast consumption of porn and daily masturbation has gotten him to a point where he has trouble getting it up for you. It took one guy about two years of doing neither for his brain to rewire itself back to normal.

3) You say your husband refuses counseling and gets mad whenever you bring it up. If I were you, I would force his hand: counseling or divorce, and have the divorce papers ready. He needs to see that you mean business. If he loves you as much as you say he does, he'd go into therapy. And please stop saying he loves you. His words tear you down; that's not any definition of love that I've ever heard of. That's mental abuse. Acts of service around the house are nice but tormenting you like he does is far damaging to your emotional health.

There seems to be this epidemic of husbands who get off in seeing their wives have sex with other men. These are known as cuckolds or cucks. They're one of the lowest forms of men, in my humble opinion, next to wife beaters and rapists. Whether it's because they lack testosterone or what, but these aren't real men. The ones who don't mind the "sloppy seconds" are even worst. You too are clearly not compatible. It's a shame that you have such a stupid and inept husband who can't please you in bed even after many pointers from you. How can a man not know how to engage in monkey-see-monkey-do? "Here's my clit, here are my erogenous zones; kiss it, lick it, massage it. Get me off." How can your husband not be able to do that? Dumb.

BTW, why did you choose the handle DelicateFlower? You seem pretty strong willed to me. I hope you don't lower your standard to please him.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DelicateFlower said:


> I'm truly the first person he's ever "made love" to and I've tried to teach him, but he just doesn't get it. I'm at the point now where I've told him not to.


It's sad to see a woman forced to come to such a point that she understands and accepts the above as the unchangeable truth. :frown2:


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

OP, it's not about whether these fantasies are normal or not. I'm very kinky, and one of my hottest fantasies is of my girlfriend banging her exes or random gorgeous women. Like your husband, it's because I find her so incredibly sexy and ****able. My gf is totally on board with these fantasies, which are only fantasies and shall remain so.

The difference here is that your husband knows that you are repulsed by these fantasies and continues or continued to expose you to them until you now despise his touch.

I agree with "becareful"...you need to order hubs into counseling, either marriage or individual. And it wouldn't hurt for you to receive individual counseling to see if you can trust or forgive or be attracted to your husband again.

I'm sorry. I know there are things my gf would hate, and I would never inflict those fantasies on her. Sex is supposed to be fun. He's clearly fetishized this, so this might be an ending point for you.

Best of luck...


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## Tony Conrad (Oct 7, 2013)

I'm repulsed as well. One of them is bestiality and one can wonder what he has been filling his mind with to have these kinds of dreams. The other dream is his wife behaving like a tramp of the worst kind. How is this good? I suspect he has fed these fantasies long before he got the dream. It's a kind of mental adultery of the most awful kind. I would call it demonic which he has invited into his mind and body.


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## LTCNurse (Feb 5, 2018)

I had two major problems in my marriage (divorcing now). The first was the demeaning/abusive aspect and the second was a sex life so bad that I wonder if I will ever get my interest back. He insisted on ONE position in spite of suggestions from me to try others. He also never gave me an orgasm and was disinterested in trying even though I gave gentle suggestion like you have. Of course when a woman is abused (exposed to sexual fantasies she has insisted is a turn off for her is one way) and when there is no openness or attempt to sexual satisfy her the possibility and probability of divorce will be looming.

Counseling or Divorce. Do it.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

Not normal. At all. Especially the dog thing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

DelicateFlower said:


> I'm loving it; totally into, love the attention, the more boys the merrier. I'm teasy and encouraging them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Read the book ‘sperm wars’. It will become clear where this is coming from.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lovingwife71 (Mar 28, 2018)

DelicateFlower said:


> My husband and I have never been sexually matched. He really doesn't know how to make love to a woman and clearly lacks sexual confidence (even though he's been having sex since he was 13 and has more partners than he can count).
> To be fair, sex has never been a big driver for me, although at times I enjoyed it, I've never had an orgasm during the act itself; other ways yes, but not during actual sex.
> 
> For him, sex is a primary driver; he even chose his career after watching "Shampoo" and seeing how much sex Warren Beatty's character was getting.
> ...


Hi there! Since your post is not THAT old, I am going to respond and hope you see it. The first one I would like to address is the dog, because I kind of know where you are coming from there. LOL. We have a German Rottweiler who is also very horny when hubby and I start doing anything. It gets to the point where we have to kick him out of the room (the dog that is- LOL:grin2 because he jumps up on the bed, howls, and actually does try to get involved. I have NEVER seen nor had a dog who reacts this way. My husband will make comments that are pretty disgusting, but he doesn't obsess over it and he can certainly perform.
As far as the "dream." I put that word in quotes because I am wondering if it isn't actually a fantasy that he has expressed to you as a dream, because, well, after all we can't control our dreams now. Right? Many guys have the fantasy of watching their wife/gf/so with another man. My husband included. Why? I have no idea. He has given me some lame explanations and I have read others, so I guess, while I wouldn't say it's normal or abnormal, seeing your woman with another or other men is fairly common. That being said, it isn't normal or commonly expressed, to want to see your wife with a child. Call it what you want, but a 14 or 15 yr old boy is a child. In NO state is it age of consent, in NO state is it legal for a woman over 21 to be with a 14 or 15 yo child, and would it make that much of a difference to your husband if the person having sex with you in his fantasy was 18 or 19 rather than 14 or 15? I also find it VERY HARD to believe that he wouldn't want this fantasy to become a reality seeing as how he can't even perform unless he is talking and/or thinking about it. 
If he won't agree to get marriage counseling with you, I would advise you to go on your own. You are obviously very torn over this issue. If he can see how much it is hurting you, and therefore your marriage, and is still not willing to do anything about it, it maybe it's time to make some serious decisions about your future. Good luck to you.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

DelicateFlower said:


> My husband and I have never been sexually matched. He really doesn't know how to make love to a woman and clearly lacks sexual confidence (even though he's been having sex since he was 13 and has more partners than he can count).
> To be fair, sex has never been a big driver for me, although at times I enjoyed it, I've never had an orgasm during the act itself; other ways yes, but not during actual sex.
> 
> For him, sex is a primary driver; he even chose his career after watching "Shampoo" and seeing how much sex Warren Beatty's character was getting.
> ...




- I would say, if you can, divorce him and find another man who is sexually confident and has normal sexual fantasies.


- Fantasizing about you being taken by many teen boys, messed up.


- And fantasizing about you and your dog?! beastiality.....that's disgusting.


- For me, I am HD and my wife is LD. Sexual mismatch.


- What happens when there is little sex in my marriage, I get weird fantasies and use sex toys and porn to get it out of my system. That's not healthy but its from the lack of physicality and sex.


- When a man is denied physicality / sex from his supposed loving wife, his needs aren't being met and there's a void. That void leads to the above.


- When I had sex 3x week I had no weird fantasies and my porn use and sex toys were zero.


- My fantasies are simple. I like ladies. Two ladies or three ladies at the same time, I'm good. That's about it. Sex toys, sure. Many positions, sure.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

This Thread just makes me sad now, and in light of the fact that you are divorcing, perhaps it is time to take it down.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

introvert said:


> This Thread just makes me sad now, and in light of the fact that you are divorcing, perhaps it is time to take it down.


Where does she say they are divorcing? Can you link to the post?


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## salparadise (Sep 13, 2016)

First, there really isn't such a thing as "normal" in the realm of human sexuality. Alfred Kinsey put that notion to rest quite some time ago. There are taboos, which are just widely accepted negative attitudes in a society against certain practices. Many people are sexually excited by fantasizing about violating taboos, and many actually violate taboos, either because of or in spite of its forbidden nature. Your husband is merely fantasizing. 

I'd say it's time to get out of the judgement zone and look at it more objectively. The fact that most people don't share the same fantasy doesn't make it wrong. Nobody is getting hurt or catching diseases. Some people are into being tied up, and some think it's the most awful thing they can imagine. Some people enjoy anal sex, and others view it as dirty, immoral... taboo. People just have different attitudes. Beastiality and cuckoldry are similar, albeit a few steps further across the line of demarcation perhaps. Keep in mind that he's only asking you to indulge fantasies, not act them out in reality. 

In your case the problem is not that your husband is wrong, it's that the two of you are completely misaligned. Your belief that gentle, conservative, lovey-dovey sex is correct (and that kinky fantasies are wrong) is easy to get agreement on when you're talking to equally restrained, judgmental types with narrow perspectives, but there are also a lot of people of both genders who would not agree.

I just think it's unfortunate that the two of you are unable to embrace each other's style of sexuality, to share and enjoy the fantasies. But it is what it is, and the likelihood of such divergent perspectives finding enough common ground to have a satisfying sex life is probably close to zero. I think it's possible for a restrained person to open up, but highly unlikely that the inverse is possible. You are young, and sexual compatibility is important and necessary to sustain a marriage (yes, exceptions may exist). So if you simply can't embrace a more open, fantasy-inspired sexuality, then I'd say cut your losses and quit wasting time.

PS: you should watch the movie "Kinsey" if you haven't seen it.


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