# He's keeping the house, what to do with the mortgage?



## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Good morning,

I need some advice. I'm in the midst of a divorce that he asked for...he said he wanted it "as quick and easy as possible" yet he's challenged every version of the PSA that has been sent to him. I've relented in every area simply because I just want this over and done. The one area I've not flexed on is what to do with the existing mortgage. He's keeping the house and buying me out (the majority of my story is on the "surviving the holidays thread) in this forum.

The most recent PSA went back to his counsel last week. Today they replied and are really pushing for us to allow him to assume the existing loan/mortgage rather than my preference of him having to refinance the mortgage so that I'm ensured that I'm fully removed from the loan.

Question I have for any of you that may have gone through this, is there any risk to me by allowing him to assume .vs refinance? My intentions are to purchase my own home but won't qualify as long as I'm attached in any way to the current loan.

Thanks in advance!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Stand firm. Make him refi. Make sure he understands that you will NOT consider anything different. 


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Stand firm. Make him refi. Make sure he understands that you will NOT consider anything different.


Spot on, you need to be firm. 

You have given way to much ground as it stands now. 

If you do not stand firm, I promise you will regret it at some point. 

Besides, let him squirm. Time is on your side even though it sucks being there. 

He wants to move his new GF in as soon as your are out, and you can bet the she is *****ing at him constantly to get this done. 

Hang tough and get what you deserve the way that you want it done...


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

As long as you receive legally binding evidence that you have no responsibility for the loan, and you are guaranteed to get your money from the "buyout", it should not matter to you how he accomplishes it. I assume you are also going to need to file a "quit claim" to get your name off the deed.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There is nothing to stop him from assuming the entire mortgage unless he hasn’t the financial wherewithal to pay it.Would the finance company want to foreclose if your name isn’t on the paper?
Remember you will be liable for any payments he misses if he goes into arrears and this would also be a way of him ruining your credit score.
You could find it very difficult if not impossible to get a mortgage of your own if there is outstanding balance on another mortgage with your name on it.
NEVER put your name on a loan sheet for someone you didn’t trust one hundred percent and even then check be careful.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

My XW agreed to those terms where I didn't refinance. I kind of snuck it in and she signed, which was STUPID. Do not do that because the mortgage will then count as your debt until it's paid off so you will have a very hard time if you want to get a mortgage of your own.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

If all you have is a judgement that says it’s his responsibility, all that does is allow you to sue him for any payments you make. It will NOT stop them from coming after you. 


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

And this is where I'm conflicted. I don't want to be spiteful even though he is/has been. If I can accomplish the same feat (having my name removed from the mortgage/loan) via an assumption, it would be easiest for him if I allowed that. However, on the flip side.....I'm the one that has to pack/move, I'm the one that has to get a new mortgage with the higher interest rates, I'm the one that has to pay closing costs, I'm the one walking out of a large house with just the basic needs. I feel he should "suffer" a little through this process but there's that spitefulness that I don't like.

If he didn't do things like undermine the appraisal of the house so the buyout is less, force every household payment except the mortgage on me, make the kids come to me about paying their car insurance, tuition and books, maybe I would feel differently. He's the one that's full of spite. He disabled the gas fireplace which really does help to heat the house. The kids asked if he would get it started so we would have it for Christmas day....he told them he would but didn't. Doesn't want us using his precious propane I guess so the electric heat is running constantly just to keep the house at 68. The bill will be close to if not over $800 this month but he doesn't care, he doesn't pay it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Miserable1 said:


> And this is where I'm conflicted. I don't want to be spiteful even though he is/has been. If I can accomplish the same feat (having my name removed from the mortgage/loan) via an assumption, it would be easiest for him if I allowed that. However, on the flip side.....I'm the one that has to pack/move, I'm the one that has to get a new mortgage with the higher interest rates, I'm the one that has to pay closing costs, I'm the one walking out of a large house with just the basic needs. I feel he should "suffer" a little through this process but there's that spitefulness that I don't like.
> 
> If he didn't do things like undermine the appraisal of the house so the buyout is less, force every household payment except the mortgage on me, make the kids come to me about paying their car insurance, tuition and books, maybe I would feel differently. He's the one that's full of spite. He disabled the gas fireplace which really does help to heat the house. The kids asked if he would get it started so we would have it for Christmas day....he told them he would but didn't. Doesn't want us using his precious propane I guess so the electric heat is running constantly just to keep the house at 68. The bill will be close to if not over $800 this month but he doesn't care, he doesn't pay it.


You are not being spiteful. If I may say, honestly, you are being kind of stupid about this. And I am not trying to hurt your feelings. 

He is screwing you over and you are allowing it. YOU HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS. 

He is a creep, and you know it, it is clear as day that he is, 1) having an affair 2) Trying to screw you over in the divorce 3) is currently screwing you over by getting you to pay all the bills while he is screwing his GF and promising her the world., 

I am to the point, of begging you to get strong and hang on so that you can get a decent settlement.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Taking care of your financial future does NOT make you spiteful. Stop letting him walk all over you. Grow some lady balls woman!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

You are not being spiteful, you are looking after your best interest just like he is. . Divorce is strictly business. You can't trust him. He doesn't trust or care about you. Why in the world would you leave your name on the mortgage?

If he wants out ASAP, then don't budge on what is important to your future. He is not part of your life anymore and that was his choice. I have no doubt he will try to short change you in the buy out too.

Be very careful. He has no good feelings left for you. I'm sorry but this is sadly true. You are in his way of achieving a new life with the OW. Let go of that Noble notion that you are above him by not being spiteful. You can't be "nice" to someone that wants to blatenly rip you off. Please wake up. Leave all feelings aside and only use your head. It


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Miserable1 said:


> And this is where I'm conflicted. I don't want to be spiteful even though he is/has been. If I can accomplish the same feat (having my name removed from the mortgage/loan) via an assumption, it would be easiest for him if I allowed that. However, on the flip side.....I'm the one that has to pack/move, I'm the one that has to get a new mortgage with the higher interest rates, I'm the one that has to pay closing costs, I'm the one walking out of a large house with just the basic needs. I feel he should "suffer" a little through this process but there's that spitefulness that I don't like.
> 
> If he didn't do things like undermine the appraisal of the house so the buyout is less, force every household payment except the mortgage on me, make the kids come to me about paying their car insurance, tuition and books, maybe I would feel differently. He's the one that's full of spite. He disabled the gas fireplace which really does help to heat the house. The kids asked if he would get it started so we would have it for Christmas day....he told them he would but didn't. Doesn't want us using his precious propane I guess so the electric heat is running constantly just to keep the house at 68. The bill will be close to if not over $800 this month but he doesn't care, he doesn't pay it.


I’ve just read some of your other posts and frankly I’m having a problem understanding why you keep backing down and letting him walk over you.If he hasn’t signed off yet then have your attorney write to his and let them know that all agreements are void after Dec 31.And you want to keep the house.
How did he turn off the heat,did he physically turn it off or cancel the account?
Tell him if he doesn’t cut out the bs you will stretch out the divorce and then I would stop all communication for a few weeks and let him sweat.
You really need to start fighting back here,if only to show your children that women don’t just walk away with nothing when a newer model appears on the scene.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

He can't assume the loan through a divorce. The loan is a private contract with a bank and the courts don't get to regulate that and remove your name. They can just assign the debt as his responsibility, which means you have legal recourse against him if he doesn't pay. The only way to end the contract and get your name off the loan is to refinance it. You can call the banks and ask but they'll tell you the same thing. 

The whole point of having a lawyer represent you is that your lawyer represents your best interests. There is no need for you to discuss this with him at all. Just tell your lawyer that you won't accept that because it's stupid. If he won't remove your name then just sell the house and split the proceeds (that should be your only counter offer). Look, my XW will not be able to get a mortgage of her own until MY house is paid off. Think about how unfair that is to her. Why would you accept that situation knowing it ahead of time?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Where is your rightful anger? You seriously have been needing it for quite some time. Talk to your legal counsel and demand that neither one of you keeps the house. Sell it, and each one gets their share. Fight him like the weasel he has become. He is bulldozing his way out of your life and you are doing nothing to save yourself. You can't afford such passivity. He will take from you what he can and not bat an eyelash when you are flat out broke and destitute. 

Did you not go scorch earth on this sham of a man? He should be hiding under a rock somewhere with his boobie prize, but instead he is walking all over you like an entitled king. I'm certain you have a backbone, it is time to put it to good use.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

_How did he turn off the heat,did he physically turn it off or cancel the account?_

The electric heat is on but the propane gas fireplace is used in conjunction with the electric heat. This is a large house that's essentially all windows with 12' ceilings and porcelain tile ... it's very hard to heat. The fireplace is able to take the chill off and the electric heat is able to keep the house a consistent temp. When he filled the 1500 gallon propane tank, he left me a bill to pay half of it which I didn't because there was still 600 gallons in the tanks. It was at that point that he extinguished the pilot light. If it was as easy as just reigniting the pilot, I would do that but he and his father installed this fireplace and set it up in such a way that it's very hard to figure out what gas line goes where (grill, hot water heater, fireplace, etc....)

I hear what you all are saying and when I read your posts, I feel GOOD about making him refinance but then I think about what counter he's going to come back with. This is what he's done since the very first version of the MSA...down to the towels and Christmas ornaments. I have flexed in EVERY area just to get this over with....the thought of dragging this out even longer because I have to wait for him to refinance vice assume is agony for me.

Part of me feels that my attorney should have just immediately gone back and told opposing counsel, NO. But then he knows I want this over with and feels that in the interest of time, it would be faster if I agree to the assumption.

But I shouldn't, right??


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You need to cut him out of your life. Not extend your tie to him through the mortgage loan. Tell your attorney NO. You can still have the D go through and just put in the contract that he'll refinance the loan within 60 days of the D being final, or something similar.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Miserable1 said:


> _
> 
> But I shouldn't, right??_


_

Exactly! You are not stalling anything, you are protecting yourself. Sadly, your lawyer can't help you because you are tieing his hands with your need to rush things. Why the rush if it is your future X the one that fights you on everything to rip you off? 

Cut off all communication with this jerk and have him sent everything to your lawyer via email. Your lawyer will fight for what you deserve if you just let him. You can't allow a bully like your WS push you like this. You want this over with ASAP and he knows this and that is why he has figured out that is is going to be very easy to take advantage of you. Please see him for who he is now and fight back even if this gets tied up. He will not like it because his OW will be pressuring him to end your relationship. Turn the tables yesterday!_


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

I just emailed my attorney and told him that I stand firm on the refinancing.

What do you want to bet that I'll get a new MSA from him with all sorts of changes and new demands?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, listen very carefully. 

I just went through this with my ex...he too didn't want to refi because he had a low rate.

Here's what happened: I went to buy a house and that loan showed up as a debt on my credit report. It caused me a great deal of trouble....I had to pay off my car, which fortunately I had the cash to do, and then I barely qualified.

And I have no other debts and make close to 6 figures. The standards are tight thanks to the real estate crash.

He has to refinance and get your name off of the mortgage. A lender won't give a **** that he agreed to pay....as long as you're associated with that loan you're liable for it. 

Repeat after me: **** him. The reason he keeps making demands is because you have acted like a doormat and rolled over under the justification of being done. Except that he claimed to want it over too yet look at what he's doing. 

**** him. Rinse and repeat. Who cares if he makes more demands? If you change your attitude and start telling him to **** off he may decide to make a deal. Why should he when you roll over for everything?

I'm sorry to be harsh....but I did just go through this. You are going to **** your life over by not taking a hard line with him. Fortunately for me our divorce wasn't final and I was able to write it in, so my ex did refinance. And we were basically friendly.

You ex isn't friendly. He is your enemy and should be treated like it.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Miserable1 said:


> I just emailed my attorney and told him that I stand firm on the refinancing.
> 
> What do you want to bet that I'll get a new MSA from him with all sorts of changes and new demands?


First of all I think you need a better attorney than the one you have.Ask some people you know who are divorced and get some names.
Secondly, it appears he thinks he can wait you out so you need to disillusion him of this idea.
EVERY time he contacts you through his attorney take at least two weeks to reply,and agree to nothing.
If he tries to speak to you about the divorce tell him to use his lawyer,you don’t want to talk to him.
Give him an option to either pay you half of the value of EVERYTHING you own,remove your name from the mortgage or else sell the house,cars etc and split the profit.
And stop agreeing to his demands,try making some yourself.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You ex isn't friendly. He is your enemy and should be treated like it.[/QUOTE]


This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> First of all I think you need a better attorney than the one you have.Ask some people you know who are divorced and get some names.
> Secondly, it appears he thinks he can wait you out so you need to disillusion him of this idea.
> EVERY time he contacts you through his attorney take at least two weeks to reply,and agree to nothing.
> If he tries to speak to you about the divorce tell him to use his lawyer,you don’t want to talk to him.
> ...




I agree. A decent attorney would've told you right away to make him get your name off that mortgage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If he refinances, which he should, is there any risk that the appraisal will come in lower than what has already been established as the house value for buyout purposes?

Let's say the house was appraised for $300k for divorce purposes. There's a $100k mortgage remaining and $200k equity. Your share of equity is half. If a refi appraisal comes in at $280k what then? Or $320k? 

Just a hypothetical question. Also, if he refinances and the payment is more or less than before, does that impact alimony or child support (if any)... If he's buying you out he has great incentive to provide a low ball estimate, no?

(Good thing we sold )


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, listen very carefully.
> 
> I just went through this with my ex...he too didn't want to refi because he had a low rate.
> 
> ...


ALL OF THIS. ALL OF IT! Especially **** him. 
**** him
**** him
**** him

I told you before your attorney sucks. As someone else mentioned, and I did as well previously...where is your anger?? This jackass cant divorce you fast enough, so he can bring in your replacement, but somehow feels that HE is entitled to everything and you aren't?? Oh **** that. Listen to Lifeistooshort… you are going to regret and kick yourself in the ass if you don't fight for yourself. I have been there, I know. I also know how badly you just want it done, but keep in mind that this chapter is only temporary. Whats permanent is your life after all this is said and done, and if you roll over and let him screw you, you are in for a world of self inflicted hurt.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> ALL OF THIS. ALL OF IT! Especially **** him.
> 
> **** him
> 
> ...




Wench...you beat me to it 


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

As much as he said he wants it 'quick and easy', he has no issue with dragging it out. He has the luxury of his parents house right next door that he's at most of the time except when he sleeps, showers or feels the need to come in to this house whenever he wants. Meanwhile, he's just establishing more equity into this house and has not a single other financial obligation because it's all on me.

I had an appraisal done on the house. I just chose a random person that does business in this county. He went and got his own appraisal which came in about $100k lower than mine. I'm sure he found someone that he could convince to lowball the appraisal because his came in barely above tax assessed value. So I'm forced to split our appraisals down the middle.

If my attorney comes back with some sort of hmmmming and hawing about my insistence on the refi, I do think I'll have to find another attorney.

Let me ask you guys something else. We're both federal employees. In his original MSA to me, he was going after my federal retirement and I in turn could go after his. Because I can retire before him, I asked if they would be willing to leave each others retirements alone. Now my attorney did recommend against this because his retirement is 1.7% while mine is 1% and I'm eligible to approximately 63% of his and he about 37% of mine (it's all based on years of service while married). Is it a dumb move on my part to not go after his retirement? The only reason I didn't is because I plan to retire in 3 years and he can begin collecting mine the day I retire. He on the other hand has another 8-10 years before retirement which is when I could start collecting his. I don't know if I can live on whatever retirement $$ is left after he's paid his 37%. Does that make sense?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Personally I feel like you should both leave each other's retirement alone. Sounds like something that could be potentially disastrous.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Yes there is risk. What you're already aware of - how can YOU buy a home when you're already on a mortgage?

Also - obviously he's having financial difficulties buying you out, so what happens to you and your credit if you go along with this and his financial problems get worse? YOUR credit could end up trashed.

I haven't read your other thread but it sounds like you're being way too nice even considering this and I wonder what other things you've acquiesced to just to get this over with?

I would ask your own attorney, what is REALLY reasonable in a situation like you're in and if you're being too nice, maybe go back with some renegotiations on a few things. He wants out, he needs to get out and let you move on with your life clean from him.





Miserable1 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I need some advice. I'm in the midst of a divorce that he asked for...he said he wanted it "as quick and easy as possible" yet he's challenged every version of the PSA that has been sent to him. I've relented in every area simply because I just want this over and done. The one area I've not flexed on is what to do with the existing mortgage. He's keeping the house and buying me out (the majority of my story is on the "surviving the holidays thread) in this forum.
> 
> ...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Yes. Go after anything and everything. 

My attorney told me that you go after everything and then start making deals. 

Get a pitbull lawyer and make this guy's life a living hell.... when he decides he really does want it over you can talk deals.

Go after everything and if you need to let a judge decide.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Listen to @lifeistooshort and go after everything. Your H is not negotiating fairly so the only way to draw him to the table is to make it painful for him so that he learns that being unreasonable is going to cost him more than being reasonable. Think about it this way, he has no reason to negotiate on anything because he's getting the better deal and you're letting him. So cut out the deal he's getting and go for halfsies on everything. Then watch him squirm and change his stance on what he's willing to accept. 

My XW was a terrible negotiator and it easily cost her over $100,000. That means, she gave me the equivalent of a condo for free while she was struggling to pay her rent. I felt really badly that she took such a crappy deal, but since she the terms of our property division were her idea and we were no longer going to be married I didn't feel the need to look after her best interests. So put on your big girl panties and figure out what you're worth.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Do all of the him refinancing with loan information all his, you take with you a copy that must be provided to you of proof, get monies owed to you as former part owner/part of any equity. It may help to have a "quit claim deed" or current form showing you're not related to the property anymore in any way. 

You send copies to credit reporting agencies and check the updating- that your credit doesn't show as your debt anymore, promptly. 

This is key. If any agency says his refinancing can wait, they're on his side or trying to streamline their work load.

You must, must, must do this.

And continue all the common items; get your name off any credit cards he may carry, you carried jointly. 

Start or continue building your own credit rating if it needs work. Hey, it may not, that's great if so!

Now the key is protect yourself from his actions. 

All the good folks here have said the same!! 

Good luck, and enjoy your future!!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Sorry to say, but some experienced folks here on TAM have told you your lawyer sucks. Believe them because they know. Dump him like a hot potato and get a barracuda of a lawyer that will work hard for YOU!

Honestly in regards to his retirement, the way he is behaving makes me think he will not have much left of it in the near future if he can get loans from it. He seems to be doing what most WS that are in the fog do. They deplete yours, theirs, and everyone and anyone's assets. They are literally bat**** crazy. Protect yourself!


I did 15 years ago and I don't regret a thing. We didn't touch each other's retirements because I knew he would not have much left and boy was I right. Watch his actions now, not who he was. The old husband has been replaced by this new careless, selfish, and childish alien. Keep that in mind every time your dumb heart tugs at you. The man you love or loved is long gone!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I agree about your lawyer. You need one with balls or ovaries to fight for you.

I also think you need to take a stand here. Tell him either he refinances and buys you out or the house gets sold by court order and you split the profits. End of. No, you aren't willing to negotiate as you've done enough of that already. You also might want to let him know that failure to make a decision or any difficult behavior on his part will result in all bets being off and a judge determining everything.

Bet he either refinances or admits he can't and the house gets sold. Win-win. Either way, you get free of him and any financial obligations shared with him.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

WHO has told you that you are spiteful? There is a big difference between looking out for yourself and anything else.

Why would you believe anything he says? He does not want quick and easy--he want best deal for him. AND he KNOWS you and he knows how to manipulate you and you seem to believe him. He did not respect you in marriage--make sure he does respect you in divorce--whatever it takes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I need some advice. I'm in the midst of a divorce that he asked for...he said he wanted it "as quick and easy as possible" yet he's challenged every version of the PSA that has been sent to him. I've relented in every area simply because I just want this over and done. The one area I've not flexed on is what to do with the existing mortgage. He's keeping the house and buying me out (the majority of my story is on the "surviving the holidays thread) in this forum.
> 
> ...


You need to talk to a lawyer about this.

Years ago I sold a home and the deal was to allow the new owners to assume my loan. I thought this mean that I was no longer responsible.

A few years later the house was foreclosed on. I was named in the foreclosure as a responsible party. I was served in the foreclosure law suit.

Luckily for me, the mortgage company decided to not come after me.

Again, talk to a lawyer who knows how all this works. If they can assure you that his assumption of the loan completely removes your responsibility than go for it. Otherwise force a refinance.

I understand why he would not want to refinance and the fees for refinancing will cost a few thousand.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

So my attorney replied to my "he needs to refinance" stance with this:

<b>I understand your position from a personal perspective. However, legally, it would not fly. It would be perceived in a bad, bad way if the issue were litigated. In my professional opinion, it would be a mistake to insist that a re-finance is the only way. Also, if he decides to walk away from that option and sell the home, you'll both make less potentially because of the costs of sale, commission, etc. I agree with you conceptually re: the higher rates now and closing costs, but, if we make that comparison, it comes off that we are taking the position we are out of spite. I guess, what I am saying is, I have nothing to go back with to his attorney other than: my client doesn't agree. Which is fine, but, if I ever had to explain why, I don't have much of a leg to stand on legally.

We'll see what response we get, but, I wanted you to know my position. </b>


Now what?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Miserable1 said:


> So my attorney replied to my "he needs to refinance" stance with this:
> 
> <b>I understand your position from a personal perspective. However, legally, it would not fly. It would be perceived in a bad, bad way if the issue were litigated. In my professional opinion, it would be a mistake to insist that a re-finance is the only way. Also, if he decides to walk away from that option and sell the home, you'll both make less potentially because of the costs of sale, commission, etc. I agree with you conceptually re: the higher rates now and closing costs, but, if we make that comparison, it comes off that we are taking the position we are out of spite. I guess, what I am saying is, I have nothing to go back with to his attorney other than: my client doesn't agree. Which is fine, but, if I ever had to explain why, I don't have much of a leg to stand on legally.
> 
> ...


You need a new lawyer, yesterday. This one is lazy and in the tank for your H. Is your husbands family rich and well established in that area? 

You have to find a new lawyer right now... Tell him to FO...


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

_You need a new lawyer, yesterday. This one is lazy and in the tank for your H. Is your husbands family rich and well established in that area? 
_

Yes, they have $$ and very well established in the area.

I do think I need to find another attorney but I don't even know where to look for one. I don't really know anyone that's gone through a messy divorce.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Fire your attorney. How does he not understand that it is bad to be at risk for a future mortgage default from your H or to have a large loan on your credit that prevents you from buying your own house? You can also tell your attorney you're OK with selling the home even if it means getting less.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

To find a new attorney you go to the phone book and look up divorce attorneys. Then you call them and setup an appointment and see what their stance is on your situation and ask what their style is if they represent you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your attorney is NOT fighting for you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Yeah..... your lawyer is full of ****.

Its pretty standard to do a refi and take an ex spouse off of the mortgage.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> Fire your attorney. How does he not understand that it is bad to be at risk for a future mortgage default from your H or to have a large loan on your credit that prevents you from buying your own house? You can also tell your attorney you're OK with selling the home even if it means getting less.




Yep...sell it if it comes down to that. If he knows you are willing to go to the mat and sell, he may be more inclined to refi so he can stay by mommy and daddy. Selling it will also take a lot longer in today’s market. Once a settlement is in place, you can move out. Eff him. 

I would suggest looking for an attorney that is from another area. 


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah..... your lawyer is full of ****.
> 
> 
> 
> Its pretty standard to do a refi and take an ex spouse off of the mortgage.




Yes...or sell. 


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> _You need a new lawyer, yesterday. This one is lazy and in the tank for your H. Is your husbands family rich and well established in that area?
> _
> 
> Yes, they have $$ and very well established in the area.
> ...


As others have said, your attorney is not doing what is best for you. It's complete nonsense that you will look spiteful if you insist on a refinance. That is what is normally done in a divorce when one of the spouses keeps the house. They refinance. 

The problem that I see is that even if you tell your current attorney that you insist on the refinance, he will not do everything he can to make sure that the house is refinanced. 

Get interviews with about 3 other attorneys and ask them what they suggest you do about this and other problems you are having. Then hire one that will support you in a refinance.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

OP...as far as heating the house, can you close the vents and doors to unused rooms?

Also...seek out someone who is more familiar with gas connections and have them show you how to get the fireplace going when the asshat isn’t home. I get the heating thing with tall ceilings...my last home was like that too. At this point, everything is joint property so he can’t stop you from using the utilities, no matter who’s check it’s getting paid from. 

Wow...this thread really has my blood boiling 


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> So my attorney replied to my "he needs to refinance" stance with this:
> 
> <b>I understand your position from a personal perspective. However, legally, it would not fly. It would be perceived in a bad, bad way if the issue were litigated. In my professional opinion, it would be a mistake to insist that a re-finance is the only way. Also, if he decides to walk away from that option and sell the home, you'll both make less potentially because of the costs of sale, commission, etc. I agree with you conceptually re: the higher rates now and closing costs, but, if we make that comparison, it comes off that we are taking the position we are out of spite. *I guess, what I am saying is, I have nothing to go back with to his attorney other than: my client doesn't agree. Which is fine, but, if I ever had to explain why, I don't have much of a leg to stand on legally.*
> 
> ...


The statement that I underlined above is very troubling. It's absolute nonsense that he has to have an explanation for why you will not agree with your stbx assuming the loan. He does not have to explain why you disagree. The legal leg he stands on is that you do not agree. That's all he needs.

Again, get another attorney.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Miserable1 said:


> _You need a new lawyer, yesterday. This one is lazy and in the tank for your H. Is your husbands family rich and well established in that area?
> _
> 
> Yes, they have $$ and very well established in the area.
> ...


Either find a lawyer out of the area, or one that has a grudge against the family and has some balls.

This guys is taking you to the cleaners, and he has probably been told that this is how it is going to go and you shut your ****ing mouth or you will get no more business in this area. 

Sugar, you should have put this in your first post. It does not matter what you have to do, in the end, you will come out ahead if you find the biggest badest shark lawyer that is not afraid of the family and has the balls to do the right thing. 

And when you interview the prospects, you need to be honest, the family is rich and my current lawyer will not go against them...

You have to do this...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

And cut the temperature back to 65...wrap up in a sweater or purchase an electric blanket and/or small space heater. I have a heat dish from Costco. Very affordable and cozy!










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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

BluesPower said:


> Either find a lawyer out of the area, or one that has a grudge against the family and has some balls.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah...they’re probably all playing golf together! 


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm sorry you are going through this nightmare.

In order for things to get better, you have to do things better. The way you have handled your life thus far has left you in an extremely vulnerable position with a mean person who doesn't care about you at all and is happy to use your as if you were an appliance. Things will not get any better until you stop doing that. 

Your kids are grown up. They need to take personal responsibility for themselves now. Do not break yourself for them or for your husband. They are young and have plenty of time to recover, but you have much less ability to do so. They should be helping pay to heat the house and other expenses. You should call someone to come and fix the fireplace. It would likely cost less than continuing the way things are. You are allowing your husband to abuse you and hope that if you give him everything he will leave you alone, but he hasn't left you alone yet, has he? No. Because you are still putting out a benefit to him. If you want things to get better, stop allowing his behavior to be of benefit to him.

@Elizabeth001 's idea to use a heat dish is a good idea. All the kids need to recognize that changes must be made now that your husband refuses to meet his personal responsibilities. You cannot do everything for everyone.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Let me just clarify one thing. His family has $$ and are well known in the area -- the attorney I have isn't even in the same county so I really don't think he's in cahoots with anyone.

The thought of starting over with a new attorney is so unappealing to me but I know it's probably in my best interest to do so. I feel like I've wasted $8-$10k already.
@Elizabeth001 - good idea on the heater! If anything, I'll just use it in my room - AKA my "cell".
@EleGirl - do you think there's any truth to my wanting a refinance and it not holding up in court if it were to go there? He says it would look "bad, bad" to any judge and appear as if its being done out of spite. However, wouldn't a judge also look and see that I've given into everything....that I didn't go after his retirement, etc?


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

I did email my attorney back and told him that the refinance is not being done out of spite. I'm protecting my financial future and the only way I can be 100% certain that I'm off the deed/mortgage is for him to refinance. My plan is to purchase my own home as soon as he buys me out and because of that, I can't run the risk of my credit being impacted.

Guess I'll see what he says but I'm going to start doing some research on other attorneys.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

And his response:

_*I understand your concerns completely. However, from the little I know about assumptions, as I don’t claim to be an expert, I’m unaware of how it could impact your credit? If you have some source material or resources about that, please share it. I’m sure I’m eventually going to have to explain this to counsel at some point. I can also ask a friend who is an experienced and knowledgeable mortgage loan officer. I’ll share his feedback once I receive it. If it turns out there’s no impact or risk to you, I’m not sure how I can convincingly explain our position to counsel. As previously stated, if settlement falls apart, I’m unaware of any legal argument we could make to justify not agreeing to an assumption. But, if we can find one or more, all the better. *_ 

Ugggghhhhhhhh. I honestly feel like I'm just going to SNAP.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

First, find out what the process for assumption is, and whether the loan is assumable. A quick Google search brought up an ocean of questions which you can use to better defend your stand of no assumption. No point paying the guy $150/hr if the current loan has restrictions. 

https://www.wikihow.com/Assume-a-Mortgage


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

If he knows so little about it, how in hell can you trust his advice on it? Aw gawd I feel your pain. I’m with John...get to some research while you are waiting for consultations with other attorneys. I really think you have a dud here. 


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Seriously, how hard was a simple Google search? In two minutes of searching I can probably teach a course on the subject. Is this lawyer you hired with a firm or independent? If they are with a firm I would squak like crazy and get someone else. If they are independent you need to suck up the lost money and find someone new ASAP. I am angry for you!

He is correct that you will get less money if you force a sale. So what? Your H won’t let that happen and you know it. Stick to your guns


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Bluesclues said:


> He is correct that you will get less money if you force a sale. So what? Your H won’t let that happen and you know it. Stick to your guns



I like the idea of him being forced to sell, even tho it means less money... just so the selfish jackass doesnt get what he wants for once.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> @EleGirl - do you think there's any truth to my wanting a refinance and it not holding up in court if it were to go there? He says it would look "bad, bad" to any judge and appear as if its being done out of spite. However, wouldn't a judge also look and see that I've given into everything....that I didn't go after his retirement, etc?


I am not a lawyer. However I have done the forensic accounting for a few divorces and working with the attorney of record on each case. So I have a bit of an idea of how this works.

Your attorney is wrong (IMHO), the judge will not look at it as "bad, bad" nor will it look like you are doing it out of spite. You have the legal right to come out of your divorce in as good a financial and legal status as possible. Letting your stbx assume the loan does not mean that you are removed from the mortgage. It will be on your credit report. If he stops paying, it will kill your credit rating.

Plus, he wants you to sign the deed over to him too, right? So you would be financially responsible for a home that you do not have any ownership in. You could end up owing the entire mortgage but not have any rights to the property.

The judge and court will not look at you as vindictive or spiteful if you ask for a settlement that protects you financially. Something is off with your lawyer.

Perhaps you could interview some other lawyers and just see what they say about all this. 

Do a google search on "divorce assume mortgage" and read the sites that come up. It's a very very bad idea.

https://www.womansdivorce.com/divorce-mortgage.html

https://info.legalzoom.com/can-assume-mortgage-after-divorce-24231.html


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I cannot believe what I'm reading. Your STBX husband is a complete pig and arsehole!

Honey - you get a plumber around to your home asap, to relight that pilot light for you, get them to show YOU how to do it so that when numb nuts sneaks in to turn it off, you'll know how to get it going again.

The bastard had an affair. He ruined your marriage and your family. There needs to be consequences for that - go hard or go home honey. Take him for everything you can.

Re the appraisal of the home, you get two or three different agents to do one, then the lawyers can negotiate a price somewhere in the middle. YOU CANNOT TRUST YOUR HUSBAND. HE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. Nor your childrens apparently - what a piece of crap to turn off a big part of the heating in the dead of winter in the house where they live??? Omg.

And for the love of god get another lawyer yesterday!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

"Letting your stbx assume the loan does not mean that you are removed from the mortgage. It will be on your credit report. If he stops paying, it will kill your credit rating."

Then the whole assumption process is pointless, regardless of intent... 

The only scenario that could cause the above is if there's no communication from the lender to the credit reporting agencies about the assumption. While possible, any large lender would know how this works. Or any of the reporting agencies.

"Re the appraisal of the home, you get two or three different agents to do one, then the lawyers can negotiate a price somewhere in the middle."

Assuming a reasonable cost home, wild variations in appraised value aren't typical and that by itself is another red flag.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hon, your attorney is a moron. Or at very least he's ignorant about how loans work. 

I just dealt with this. It doesn't impact your credit in that as long as your ex is paying the mortgage your score won't be damaged, but it's still going to show up at a debt you owe. 

A lender will use it to calculate your debt to income ratio. This is done by looking at your income and your monthly financial obligations, which will include his mortgage payment because you're technically liable for it. They will not approve you for a mortgage if your monthly obligations are much above 45% of your income.... that's industry standard. The mortgage will include taxes and insurance, and if you live in an area where those are expensive that will make it harder to qualify.

Him refinancing has nothing to do with spite.... it's quite standard in a divorce. 

Your attorney is a moron. Even if you get less cash from your ex then you should you MUST get your name off of that mortgage so you are free of the debt.

I work in the insurance/financial sector.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Miserable1 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I need some advice. I'm in the midst of a divorce that he asked for...he said he wanted it "as quick and easy as possible" yet he's challenged every version of the PSA that has been sent to him. I've relented in every area simply because I just want this over and done. The one area I've not flexed on is what to do with the existing mortgage. He's keeping the house and buying me out (the majority of my story is on the "surviving the holidays thread) in this forum.
> 
> ...


*Get with a good family/community property lawyer and have them do this for you! This is not a "do-it-yourself" project!

And until everything is fully consummated, I'd recommend renting a house or an apartment until such time that the legal transfer is done!*


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *Get with a good family/community property lawyer and have them do this for you! This is not a "do-it-yourself" project!
> 
> And until everything is fully consummated, I'd recommend renting a house or an apartment until such time that the legal transfer is done!*




I don’t think leaving the residence is a good idea until they have a settlement agreement in place or it could be seen as her abandoning the home. 


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

OP:

Your lawyer is a coward. How do you expect him to fight for you when he is afraid to fight period.

No offense intended, but you come across rather cowardly as well. If this is how you fight for your financial future, it's not really much of a surprise that you find yourself in this situation in the first place. 

Stop complying with unreasonable and unfair demands. Get a goddamn plumber in there to turn the ****ing gas back on. Don't leave your fate in the hands of some chicken**** lawyer. Fight for yourself. You're really worried that someone will call you a name like "spiteful"? Who gives a damn? The bad choices you are making now will haunt you moving forward. 

You are not helpless. Start acting like it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

"I just dealt with this. It doesn't impact your credit in that as long as your ex is paying the mortgage your score won't be damaged, but it's still going to show up at a debt you owe."

But her name is off the mortgage...


People do assumable mortgages all the time, FHA, VA, etc so this outright defeats the purpose. If I have a VA home and then want to trade up or move, what's the point of the buyer assuming the mortgage if they're coming after me if he defaults? At that point what claim do I have to the property?

Note: I don't know the answer, and given how crazy the industry is,it would not surprise me the least if my cat's credit score is impacted... I'm not suggesting by any means she lets him assume and regardless the appraisal numbers look strange...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Damn it Jim I'm a psychologist not a mortgage officer 

A bit of research reveals that there's two types of assumption...

https://promo.bankofamerica.com/mortgage_assumptions/

Or, a simple assumption where the name comes off the title but still liable, and a qualifying assumption which is pretty much what we think it is with no impact to the credit score.

My cat has a credit score of 1120, so there. Do your research people


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Forcing the home sale might actually benefit you financially too. Remember, he got a low ball offer that he is using to lower than amount he is going to split with you. If the home is sold there's no way he'll go for the low ball offer because then he's hurting himself...he'll go for the most he can sell it for.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> Forcing the home sale might actually benefit you financially too. Remember, he got a low ball offer that he is using to lower than amount he is going to split with you. If the home is sold there's no way he'll go for the low ball offer because then he's hurting himself...he'll go for the most he can sell it for.


Besides, if it's an older inefficient house why is he so keen on keeping it? At the "low ball price"... 

What's the Zillow price like? Appreciation history?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

john117 said:


> Besides, if it's an older inefficient house why is he so keen on keeping it? At the "low ball price"...
> 
> What's the Zillow price like? Appreciation history?


So he can stay next door to mommy.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

What is most important here is for the OP to send the clear, unmistakable message to her husband/his family/his lawyer and the new woman that she is done with the spinless act. Quibbling about the nuances of assumable mortgages is silly. Allowing him to assume the existing mortgage benefits HIM. What does she get out of it? 

She wants him to refinance. That's it. Has he had to justify everything he has demanded? Has he been fair, balanced and made the process easy for her? No and no. 

Screw this guy. The sooner things start getting harder for him, the sooner he will consider being more fair and equitable in this divorce. The longer he can't give the new woman what he has promised her, the more she will squeeze his plums. That will bring him to the table in earnest. 

The OP has a lot more power than she realizes. Time to exercise it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

At what cost? $20k in legal bills to gain $20k in additional equity?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

What has being meek cost her so far? How much by the time this is done? For the rest of her life?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As of now I seem to know more about mortgage assumptions than the parties involved . And I know close to nothing. First resolve the appraisal issues then worry what happens to the loan. 

In fact, understanding the "real" price - which will likely be what the bank says, not what he says - is the key to the puzzle. He may be trying to do a simple assumption (ie she's on the hook) because paperwork is easy. But in a qualifying assumption (ie she's off the hook) a lot more work is needed, and any discrepancies in appraisal value will have to be dealt with.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

miserable1 said:


> and his response:
> 
> _*i understand your concerns completely. However, from the little i know about assumptions, as i don’t claim to be an expert, i’m unaware of how it could impact your credit? If you have some source material or resources about that, please share it. I’m sure i’m eventually going to have to explain this to counsel at some point. I can also ask a friend who is an experienced and knowledgeable mortgage loan officer. I’ll share his feedback once i receive it. If it turns out there’s no impact or risk to you, i’m not sure how i can convincingly explain our position to counsel. As previously stated, if settlement falls apart, i’m unaware of any legal argument we could make to justify not agreeing to an assumption. But, if we can find one or more, all the better. *_
> 
> ugggghhhhhhhh. I honestly feel like i'm just going to snap.


he is a moron... Get it a moron...

Get another attorney ....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

zookeeper said:


> What has being meek cost her so far? How much by the time this is done? For the rest of her life?


That's a different story... Being meek doesn't help. But being prepared does. 

I spent a year preparing for all this. I wasn't combative, and at the end of the day we both win out by not wasting tens of thousands of dollars in unneeded legal fees. We did sell the house, granted, and have no child support or alimony to deal with. Instead of pointless legal arguments, learn what is going on. 

For us the only sticky point was her share of two years of medical school for DD2. The rest... We have enough crap for three households. Much of it went to storage.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/breaking-mortgage-divorce-1.aspx

If your lawyer doesn't know which is the better option for you, get a new lawyer. A house and what needs to be done with it during a divorce is pretty standard. The fact that he has to ask for someone's input shows how inept at his job he truly is. He can google the options, and the pros and cons of assuming loans, refinancing, etc. Did he just graduate? 

Get a new lawyer, and start using Google to understand the pros and cons of your options. There is plenty of information out there. 

As for the two appraisals, and you having to split it down the middle. The court can order an appraisal done, and that will be the final decision. Since yours was so much higher than WS, ask for the court to intervene, and assign someone to do the appraisal. They should be willing to because of the disparity between the appraisals you and he got.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Miserable1 said:


> And this is where I'm conflicted. I don't want to be spiteful even though he is/has been. If I can accomplish the same feat (having my name removed from the mortgage/loan) via an assumption, it would be easiest for him if I allowed that. However, on the flip side.....I'm the one that has to pack/move, I'm the one that has to get a new mortgage with the higher interest rates, I'm the one that has to pay closing costs, I'm the one walking out of a large house with just the basic needs. I feel he should "suffer" a little through this process but there's that spitefulness that I don't like.
> 
> If he didn't do things like undermine the appraisal of the house so the buyout is less, force every household payment except the mortgage on me, make the kids come to me about paying their car insurance, tuition and books, maybe I would feel differently. He's the one that's full of spite. He disabled the gas fireplace which really does help to heat the house. The kids asked if he would get it started so we would have it for Christmas day....he told them he would but didn't. Doesn't want us using his precious propane I guess so the electric heat is running constantly just to keep the house at 68. The bill will be close to if not over $800 this month but he doesn't care, he doesn't pay it.


Read this again out loud. Then tell me why you should make ONE MORE ACCOMMODATION.

Get your name off that the right way. And you KNOW you can't trust him to do you right once he has what he wants. You have what he wants - out. Let him pay to get it.

This is all temporary, ok? A year from now, what matters is whether you got what you needed to care for your kids properly. Stand firm and take the heat; you can do it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

john117 said:


> That's a different story... Being meek doesn't help. But being prepared does.
> 
> I spent a year preparing for all this. I wasn't combative, and at the end of the day we both win out by not wasting tens of thousands of dollars in unneeded legal fees. We did sell the house, granted, and have no child support or alimony to deal with. Instead of pointless legal arguments, learn what is going on.
> 
> For us the only sticky point was her share of two years of medical school for DD2. The rest... We have enough crap for three households. Much of it went to storage.


I completely get where you are coming from, @john117, but she is in a different situation. 

She says her lawyer is not in the tank, I personally disagree because I have seen how far reaching a rich family can be and they always circle the wagons for family. 

If he is not, then he is a moron or just lazy and weak. She is in the process of being taken to the cleaners by her cheating husband and his family. 

Almost every civil lawyer I have ever met has a basic understanding of this type of finance stuff. 

If he assumes the mortgage without her being off of the loan and the deed, she has liability that she neither wants or needs. 

She needs a strong lawyer...


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

So we got a response back from opposing counsel. They state that the language in the MSA reference the assumption must stand and this is non-negotiable.

I've reviewed the home loan paperwork - specifically the Federal Truth-in-Lending disclosure form. There is a section on this form that specifies "Assumption" - and a box must be checked whether a buyer can or can't assume the loan under the original terms. The box checked is the "a buyer cannot assume the remainder of the mortgage". It's a conventional loan, not VA or FHA. The question is, would he be considered a "buyer"? He's buying me out so I would think yes? I've got a message into the loan officer at the bank asking for specifics.

I've read all of your responses and if I didn't know me, I too would assume that I'm a weak person based on my posts. I'm really not though. I'm not one to be taken advantage of and I do stand up for what I believe in. I will admit that lately I feel that I've weakened but I blame that on emotional anguish and exhaustion. I lost my father unexpectedly about 6 weeks ago and have been putting a lot of my strength into getting my somewhat disabled mother's affairs in order which is difficult when she's on the opposite coast. When he passed, I also lost my biggest supporter....he was the one that got me through my moments of weakness.

I don't think the STBX would go for a sale of the house. It's on family property so if the house sells, so does 5 acres of the family land that is currently used for a horse boarding business. If I forced the sale, he would probably pull some shenanigan in getting his parents to buy it at a very low price.

Got a call from my auto insurance company today. Apparently he removed his vehicles only and put them on a policy in his name -- however, he left the kids vehicles on my policy. So, I'm stuck with the kids insurance, one sons car payment (he's in college and this was a deal that was made to him..."WE" would pay his payments as long as he was in school and not working), the kids cell phones, medical insurance, literally every other financial obligation other than the mortgage. Effective 1 Feb, I have to pay him half the mortgage. Legally, there isn't much I can do since all of the kids are over 18 -- morally, I guess it doesn't bother him in the slightest that he's basically financially abandoning his kids. 

I've being doing some research on attorneys and everywhere I look, the firm that I'm currently using is the most widely recommended by a long shot. 

I appreciate everyone's input and encouragement.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I don’t think leaving the residence is a good idea until they have a settlement agreement in place or it could be seen as her abandoning the home.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That's a given!

If you haven't done so already, get with your attorney and try to formulate an effective plan of strategy! But don't vacate the house whatsoever until such time that you've gotten all of your "i's" dotted and your "t's" crossed!"*


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The house isn't being bought or sold, so there is no buyer or seller. I can just about guarantee you that the bank will say you cannot remove your name from the loan without a refinance (that's what my bank told me when I asked about removing my wife's name), but you'll know as soon as the loan officer contacts you. Also, he can't sell the house for less than it's worth to a family member because both of your names are on the deed, so you sell it to whomever has the highest offer. And just because his lawyer says something is non-negotiable doesn't mean that it is. That is just their position which they will have to justify to a mediator or to a judge. Your position that you don't want to remain on a loan where you would have no property interest is completely valid. If he won't negotiate then let the courts decide it for the two of you, but make sure you retain a lawyer that is competent.

Remember that the negotiation your lawyers are doing is to make things go smoother. If they can't reach an agreement then mediator/judge will decide these issues for both of you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Well, WIDELY recommended isn't necessarily reality, as you are coming to discover. And all this crap he is doing with the insurance etc... was that something that has been spelled out in your legal documents, or is he just doing what the hell he wants to?? Seems that he is responsible for half of all this, especially if YOU are being forced to pay half the mortgage.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Are the adult children working and contributing at all? 


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Well, WIDELY recommended isn't necessarily reality, as you are coming to discover. And all this crap he is doing with the insurance etc... was that something that has been spelled out in your legal documents, or is he just doing what the hell he wants to?? Seems that he is responsible for half of all this, especially if YOU are being forced to pay half the mortgage.


*I'm of the opinion that the egotistical bastard is pretty well doing whatever the hell that he feels like doing!

I think that he needs to be fastly introduced to a marked combination of the sheriffs department, the county attorney, the county judge, and the circuit court judge!*


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Assuming the kids are his as well, tell the lawyer to get that money. Every dime you pay towards their car insurance policies can be recovered from him in the value of the house sale or some other way. He cannot stick you with bills that are shared/children costs and pay nothing.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

_Are the adult children working and contributing at all? _

One is going to school and working - pays car and insurance.
2nd is out of the house, renting, paying bills - just have his insurance to pay.
3rd is away at college full time. Has been paying own car note but that account has run out.


_Well, WIDELY recommended isn't necessarily reality, as you are coming to discover. And all this crap he is doing with the insurance etc... was that something that has been spelled out in your legal documents, or is he just doing what the hell he wants to?? Seems that he is responsible for half of all this, especially if YOU are being forced to pay half the mortgage._

He's doing whatever the hell he wants. Effective 1 Feb, when I start paying half the mortgage, he will pay half of the utilities ONLY. I said that I would deduct what I pay to utilities from my half of the mortgage - they came back and said that I will pay him via check on the first of every month and he will write me a check for half of the utilities within 10 days of me providing proof that I paid the companies in full.

Personally I feel that if a verbal agreement was made (long before the separation) that we would pay the youngest's bills while he was away at college, it should be included in the PSA that he should be responsible for at least half. He does pay half of the tuition though.

I also think that if this ends up in court, that I have a pretty solid case. I've been MORE than fair and if anyone should look spiteful, it should be HIM!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

See what mortgage officer dude will say.... But one gotta wonder what was in your stb X's mind.

Do you live in a state where property is reassessed when sold? Another thing to look at.

Your legal beagle should have those answers...


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

He is playing you, he has no interest in a fair/equitable separation. He is trying to screw you over, and you are letting him.

Stop everything, get a new lawyer and fight back.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Get a new lawyer and go to court. 

This is bull****.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> So we got a response back from opposing counsel. They state that the language in the MSA reference the assumption must stand and this is non-negotiable.
> 
> I've reviewed the home loan paperwork - specifically the Federal Truth-in-Lending disclosure form. There is a section on this form that specifies "Assumption" - and a box must be checked whether a buyer can or can't assume the loan under the original terms. The box checked is the "a buyer cannot assume the remainder of the mortgage". It's a conventional loan, not VA or FHA. The question is, would he be considered a "buyer"? He's buying me out so I would think yes? I've got a message into the loan officer at the bank asking for specifics.


Why not call the mortgage company and talk to them. Ask them if they will be willing to take you off the mortgage due to the divorce. They will most likely tell you that they will not do this. Also tell them that your husband's lawyer keeps saying that he wants to assume the mortgage and ask them if that can be done, essentially removing you from the mortgage.

See if you can get the person you speak with to send you an email saying that there is no way they will agree to that.

Most, if not all, lenders will not remove you from the mortgage. It is to their advantage to have more than one person to go after if payments fall behind.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Miserable1 said:


> And this is where I'm conflicted. I don't want to be spiteful even though he is/has been. If I can accomplish the same feat (having my name removed from the mortgage/loan) via an assumption, it would be easiest for him if I allowed that. However, on the flip side.....I'm the one that has to pack/move, I'm the one that has to get a new mortgage with the higher interest rates, I'm the one that has to pay closing costs, I'm the one walking out of a large house with just the basic needs. I feel he should "suffer" a little through this process but there's that spitefulness that I don't like.
> 
> If he didn't do things like undermine the appraisal of the house so the buyout is less, force every household payment except the mortgage on me, make the kids come to me about paying their car insurance, tuition and books, maybe I would feel differently. He's the one that's full of spite. He disabled the gas fireplace which really does help to heat the house. The kids asked if he would get it started so we would have it for Christmas day....he told them he would but didn't. Doesn't want us using his precious propane I guess so the electric heat is running constantly just to keep the house at 68. The bill will be close to if not over $800 this month but he doesn't care, he doesn't pay it.


 And you're *STILL* pandering to this piece of **** even after all of the above? 

And yes, you're pandering when you express how you want to help it all go smoothly for him.

Screw _*him*_. 

Stop rolling over for this idiot. Seriously. 

Just STOP.


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## Miserable1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Heard back from the Mortgage lender.....the loan is NOT assumable.

So EFF him and his attorney.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Miserable1 said:


> Heard back from the Mortgage lender.....the loan is NOT assumable.
> 
> So EFF him and his attorney.


That matches what you said the loan/mortgage documents say. Good!

Did you ask the mortgage lender if they would be willing to remove your name from the mortgage and leave only your husband on it?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This is a business transaction so treat it as such. The less talk you do with him the better.

My stupid sister signed away her right to part of her xH's retirement much to her dismay after the fact.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

This sounds like a real piece of work. Good luck and I hope it all works out.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I am a big proponent of "Don't be spiteful your spouse during a divorce", but I don't think you're doing any such thing. He is asking you to trust him and/or give him stuff. Saying no to either of these is not being spiteful.

If your lender can give you what you want and what he wants, that is different, and I go back to "Don't be spiteful."

Don't fall for his lawyer's authority pose, either. He has an obligation to his client, not to you so don't believe him any more than you would a salesman.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Miserable1 said:


> Heard back from the Mortgage lender.....the loan is NOT assumable.
> 
> So EFF him and his attorney.


Just go to court already. He's refusing to pay his share of joint marital costs. He and his lawyer don't get to tell you what he will pay, what you will pay, or when. If you do not agree to his terms, and you shouldn't, then it's up to a judge to determine.

The firm may be decent, but the individual lawyer is not.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> Just go to court already. He's refusing to pay his share of joint marital costs. He and his lawyer don't get to tell you what he will pay, what you will pay, or when. If you do not agree to his terms, and you shouldn't, then it's up to a judge to determine.
> 
> *The firm may be decent, but the individual lawyer is not.*


I agree, this lawyer is not helping you, you need to replace him. Don't go to court with this lawyer. If he's an associate in a large law firm contact the managing partner and request to either have a competent divorce attorney assigned to you or the remainder of your retainer returned. Reference the fact that your lawyer is advising you to allow your stbx to assume an unassumable mortgage which will leave you on the hook for the mortgage with no claim on the property. 

This guy is not looking after your interests. Replace him.


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