# miles of sepperation



## lovinhusband (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi, this one is for the ladies here and ladies only please

My wife of twelve years is always seeming to ignore my requests for time alone together without the kids, Mostly I only ask her why she still sleeps with the kids instead of me even though they are 12, 6, and 4 years old respectively. I'm getting fed up with her always telling me why don't I grow up and and be a husband and a father because the kids need her more than our time alone together. she does not have a set bed time for the kids, does not respect the fact that if I weigh in on an issue that maybe my opinion may be just as valid and could be constructive if she would just follow some of my suggestions. There are many other issues going on here, but mostly it all points to" I don't respect that you are part of this marriage" I'm called dumb and stupid even though I work my butt off through tough financial issues and have never quit on her. And worst of all depression is setting in big time. 

My question here is this: Is it normal for wives to sleep with children even though they are not sick? or stressed out ? I mean every day??????
I feel she has chosen the children as a diversion to me and she tells me I need to grow up........... I'm fed up.....to the point now where I react badly to be fair and honest with you I've been in many arguments with her over this and yet she still does not get it. I mean can't she set aside even the late night time to come to bed with me instead of me waking up alone?

Thoughts??????


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think it is totally normal for kids to sleep with parents, especially if they were breastfed as babies and toddlers. 

We have five children, and they all slept with us until they opted for their own beds. If my husband and I wanted to have sex, we just went into another room.

Is your real question why she does not want to have sex with you?


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## lovinhusband (Feb 25, 2012)

I agree it is really normal for kids to sleep with parents, especially when they are sick or have nightmares. This is an every night thing for us. The kids need to in my opinion have a "set bed time" according to their ages. and more or less wind down so we can rest and have personal time together to discuss things adult. If it should happen to lead to intimacy of any sort it's fine with me.. I'm just fed up with kids thrown in my face by my wife.. "The kids need this, the kids want that, why don't you grow up? are just some of the statements I hear. When she asks me what I want it is in exasperation and more or less "Ok I see that this is not going to go away that easy today so I'm just going to yell at him and say WHAT do YOU want from ME???
We've never had a babysitter in 12 years of marriage, we never go anywhere without the kids, no date night, nothing. from what I hear though I'm to blame? If I wern't "married to the farm" etc etc.


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## lovinhusband (Feb 25, 2012)

I should also point out my wife works as well so when she is gone I pick up the slack, as well as put in 70 to 80 hrs a week working in the winter time and over 100 hrs a week in the summer time trying to support the family. WE need her income as well and I do have to be honest with you and say she is pretty good with priority spending. My wife does really well in not spending for things we don't need. all I'm asking for is "down time" with her. I would think it will do us a world of good to unwind after a long day provided of course the kids don't actually "need" us for something at night.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

My kids never really slept with us except as babies in their own cradle in our room. Yes kids have high needs and trust me that does not change even as they hit late teens, young adults but parents/partners should be able to manage that as well as investing in the marriage.

Your wife is not investing in the marriage, I would sack her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lovinhusband said:


> I should also point out my wife works as well so when she is gone I pick up the slack, as well as put in 70 to 80 hrs a week working in the winter time and over 100 hrs a week in the summer time trying to support the family. WE need her income as well and I do have to be honest with you and say she is pretty good with priority spending. My wife does really well in not spending for things we don't need. all I'm asking for is "down time" with her. I would think it will do us a world of good to unwind after a long day provided of course the kids don't actually "need" us for something at night.


You and your wife may just have different priorities. If you can make being with you a fun experience, rather than another demand on her, she may be willing to spend more time with you.

As long as the kids are more fulfilling than you are, the kids are going to be the priority.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Not a woman here, but tell me: isn't sleeping with a 12 year old, or for that matter, even preschool and school aged children of 4 and 6, deemed to be just a tad off of the norm?

Sounds like she's using them as some kind of a crutch to avoid marital relations with you!

Seek counseling ASAP!*


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Not a woman here, but tell me: isn't sleeping with a 12 year old, or for that matter, even preschool and school aged children of 4 and 6, deemed to be just a tad off of the norm?
> 
> Sounds like she's using them as some kind of a crutch to avoid marital relations with you!
> 
> Seek counseling ASAP!*


Ime, 12 is about the end of kids wanting to sleep with their parents. But a 4 or 6 year old? Perfectly normal, at least among the families I have known.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Personally, I think it's ridiculous.

Geez, talk about 'attachment parenting' - which is overkill to begin with.

I ask this in all sincerity - what do you accomplish sleeping with your kids? What do you accomplish having them sleep in your marital bed or sleeping in their room? Did she climb into their cribs with them during nap-time when they were infants? Does your wife follow them into the bathroom too, since she apparently thinks she should be connected to them at the hip? Does she chew their food for them like a mother bird? Follow them to school and sit in the back of the classroom because - God forbid - they're incapable of getting through the school day without her? Are they *so* delicate that a night spent sleeping alone in their bed without her plastered to their side will _traumatize_ them for life? 

I simply don't *get* the mentality of this dynamic and never will.

Sleeping with your kids is not normal to me at all. I honestly don't know even ONE person who did it or does it. Not even *one*.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Personally, I think it's ridiculous.
> 
> Geez, talk about 'attachment parenting' - which is overkill to begin with.
> 
> ...


I know lots. Most of the families I knew from the La Leche League co-slept with their kids. A family I knew from Denmark (not in the LLL) did, too. She told me it was common among people she knew there. 

I have heard that in Native American culture, families often slept in one room. It was a way to best use whatever heating resource was available.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Your wife is doing a great disservice to her kids but not cultivating a healthy relationship between her and you. A solid marriage is the foundation of a healthy family and kids thrive on seeing parents connected as a team. It gives them a sense of stability and a feeling of being safe.

The fact that your wife chooses to sleep with her kids instead of you suggests to me that there are greater problems that's sleeping arrangements in this marriage. In my marriage when i started to feel disconnected with my husband I put all my energy into the raising the kids.

You need to sit your wife down and have a talk about how you both are feeling, any problems that are an issues and find ways to work them out. She needs to know that her not seeping with you is causing a separation in the connection you guys share and if it separates enough that you end up divorced, well the only one who is going to pay for that is your kids.

All the best.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't know your wife but you've asked for a woman's perspective so I had a great desire to protect my kids and to be physically present for them when they were infants and preschoolers and they shared our marital bed. Hubby and I would just visit the spare bedroom when we wanted intimacy. It's very easy to devote all that we are as a woman to our children and to forget about our husband's needs. I saw that as my sacrifice for bringing this precious life into the world. I didn't catch my husband's resentment because he never spoke up and stated its a problem. He was also feeling guilty for wanting alone time.
I would suggest an open conversation regarding sleeping with the kids since the kids are not infants. She is actually causing them harm because they'll never learn to self soothe during the night. Talk to your pediatrician regarding this issue.
Secondly, you should evaluate your role as a father when it comes to rearing your children and setting up boundaries so should your wife. 
Give her some free time to herself so she could reconnect with the person she was before she became "mommy".

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## lovinhusband (Feb 25, 2012)

My wife does take time to be herself, she spends her "spare time" socializing with her friends, and this effectively leaves me out in the cold. when we do go out as a family it is not the exception to be going where she wants to go, socialize with her friends, and their husbands who I have nothing in common with and more often than not I am watching the kids as she has her time with her friends. I've never once gone out with any of my friends. I work with a guy who I will call a friend, but that is about it. my social life is what I can make of it on the job. Not that I'm going to complain about it, I'm just setting the record straight. My issue here is I love my wife, and want to spend more time with her after hours only if that is all we can manage, and yet cold shoulder and statements like are you kidding? or I can't right now my kids need me for this or for that and most times it is something insignifigant. When we do have sex, it's like she always wants to talk about the curtains or something household. don't get me wrong I am not a guy who needs to have sex to feel close to his wife, but I do love to cuddle, and I do love to touch and hold her. I do like to talk about future plans for the business and future ideas for fixing the house, and always it's kids, kids, and her choice of subjects, so much so that I really have a hard time coming to her with anything personal, or intimate. When I do it becomes a chore for her to discuss and she will within a few minutes change the subject to her choice. I'm burned out, stressed out, depressed and most of all feeling pretty hollow. It's hard to have emotions when one feels this hollow.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

In all things there is a balance. 

I was a breast feeding mama until age two, and plenty of co-sleeping during those times. So I'm certinaly not against it whatsoever.

IMO, at those ages, barring illness or nightmares, they should be sleeping on their own, and she should be sleeping with her husband. Kids need to be nurtured and so does a marriage.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

I don't have kids.

When I was a kid, I NEVER slept with my parents. I slept with my mother when I was very young and she was single; after she left my bio-dad. I can vaguely remember this.


But after she remarried? No, never slept with her again. I remember being scared of the dark; I was allowed to have my bedroom door opened with the hallway light on. Gradually, I got over being scared of the dark on my own.

I remember having nightmares and running out of my room to the living room. My mom hugged me, assured me it was "just a dream", then I had to go back to sleep in my own bed. By this time, I had a baby half-sister whom I shared a bedroom with. That comforted me, too.

*SO*, I think it's good for kids to learn to sleep alone. Of course you make an exception if the kid is sick, or some such emergency.


Your "marital bed" is your sanctuary together. It is the heart and source of your family. I think your wife neglects that at her peril. I don't understand how people can substitute children for their spouse.

I think kids who are catered to constantly will probably end up spoiled. My H and I were out tonight at an event; and someone behind us took their young child. They let this kid talk audibly through half of the performance. At one point, I though the kid was talking directly in my ear. H. says the kid leaned on his shoulder at one point.

And I could hear the mother, trying to persuade the kid to behave, sit down, stop talking. And the kid ignored her, and proceeded to be a nuisance and get it's own way.

TL;DR----kids shouldn't be over indulged and your sex life should be more important than a kiddy sleep over with your own children.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

I understand you stated you wanted only ladies to post. But as a father of 5 I thought I might have some advice for you. 

My oldest is 21 and almost from the day she was born, we have had a kid in our bed. My youngest is 8 and he is still sleeping with us unless I kick him out.

The big advantage I have seen is to be close to my kids. They are not scared of me. As for my wife, it has been a way for me to be supportive of her mothering. She never had to choose between a kid and me.

I would strongly suggest you invite your wife and your kid(s) in your bed. Your wife should not feel she has to go to a separate bed to be with them.

Please keep in mind kids are very different from each other. My oldest and my #4 have to be the last one to go to bed every night, while my #2 from an early age would go to bed early and would wake up early. He is almost 18 and he still gets up early.

I think it is healthy to let the kids grow at their own rhythm. Letting them decide when they are ready to sleep alone is best.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Duguesclin said:


> I understand you stated you wanted only ladies to post. But as a father of 5 I thought I might have some advice for you.
> 
> My oldest is 21 and almost from the day she was born, we have had a kid in our bed. My youngest is 8 and he is still sleeping with us unless I kick him out.
> 
> ...


What about building independence in the children especially the twelve year old.How would they cope on a camping trip with friends if their used to sleeping with mommy.Or god forbid what happens if mommy gets sick and dies.Dug I have the greatest respect for you and your wife but this idea of kids in the bedroom sounds very odd to me.At twelve I often spent days on end alone when my parents were traveling,they knew that I could cope. I'm not suggesting that this works for everyone but a twelve year old sharing a bedroom with his mother is unhealthy at the very least.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> What about building independence in the children especially the twelve year old.How would they cope on a camping trip with friends if their used to sleeping with mommy.Or god forbid what happens if mommy gets sick and dies.Dug I have the greatest respect for you and your wife but this idea of kids in the bedroom sounds very odd to me.At twelve I often spent days on end alone when my parents were traveling,they knew that I could cope. I'm not suggesting that this works for everyone but a twelve year old sharing a bedroom with his mother is ridiculous.


I don't think any of our kids has slept in our bed past 11. Our second started sleeping alone by age 2. He would just say, "I'm going to bed," and take off down the hallway to the bedroom. He did not need anyone with him.

But if our kids wanted to crawl in at 12, they would certainly be welcome. I can't imagine it would last very long, if it happened at all. By 12 most kids are secure enough to sleep alone, at least ime.

This idea of "building independence" in kids by making them sleep alone is foreign to us, I guess. Yet all our kids are pretty independent. They go to France for six weeks at a time without us, for example. 

When you let children develop at their own rhythm, there is less stress and greater harmony in the family.

And honestly, if anyone needs to be learning to "self-soothe" in the OP's family, it is the OP.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> What about building independence in the children especially the twelve year old.How would they cope on a camping trip with friends if their used to sleeping with mommy.Or god forbid what happens if mommy gets sick and dies.Dug I have the greatest respect for you and your wife but this idea of kids in the bedroom sounds very odd to me.At twelve I often spent days on end alone when my parents were traveling,they knew that I could cope. I'm not suggesting that this works for everyone but a twelve year old sharing a bedroom with his mother is unhealthy at the very least.


OP may have a 12 year old but he does not say with which ones his wife is sleeping. I would bet it is the 4 year old.

Letting kids grow at their own rate is the healthiest. Thinking that forcing them to be alone will build character can backfire.

From the experience of our first 2, I can tell you they can't wait to go from Mom to college. It is not that they do not like Mom. They have actually a great relationship with her. But they are ready to discover the world.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Duguesclin said:


> OP may have a 12 year old but he does not say with which ones his wife is sleeping. I would bet it is the 4 year old.
> 
> Letting kids grow at their own rate is the healthiest. Thinking that forcing them to be alone will build character can backfire.
> 
> From the experience of our first 2, I can tell you they can't wait to go from Mom to college. It is not that they do not like Mom. They have actually a great relationship with her. But they are ready to discover the world.


I was never forced to be alone I was always and still am a loner but I take your point.More importantly if both of you are on tam who's cooking dinner?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> The big advantage I have seen is to be close to my kids. They are not scared of me.


There's plenty of ways to cultivate a good relationship with your kids that don't involve sleeping with them every night.

OP, do you have BC figured out? Is your wife trying to avoid sex to avoid another pregnancy?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I was never forced to be alone I was always and still am a loner but I take your point.More importantly if both of you are on tam who's cooking dinner?


The boys, today. 

Their lasagna was very good.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

jld said:


> The boys, today.
> 
> Their lasagna was very good.


I would add, why having kids if they are not going to help out :smile2:.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Duguesclin said:


> I would add, why having kids if they are not going to help out :smile2:.


The two ladies in my life are in the kitchen and while I'm not smelling anything that smells like dinner there is a lot of laughter coming out of there and I seen Ally with a wine glass a few minutes ago.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> I don't think any of our kids has slept in our bed past 11. Our second started sleeping alone by age 2. He would just say, "I'm going to bed," and take off down the hallway to the bedroom. He did not need anyone with him.
> 
> But if our kids wanted to crawl in at 12, they would certainly be welcome. I can't imagine it would last very long, if it happened at all. By 12 most kids are secure enough to sleep alone, at least ime.
> 
> ...



Why am I NOT surprised this is your approach. And NO, the OP does NOT needs to learn to self soothe, he is perfectly right to expect his wife to be an active participant in the marriage. 

OP your children do not need to be sleeping with your wife. Your wife places ZERO value on your marriage and on you as a person, other than the paycheck you provide. Why have you gone along with this?? In any family, the marriage needs to be the priority in order for the family to function properly and be healthy. Time to either man up, or get out.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In your marriage the pecking order has left you these things:

Left you out in the cold.
Left you with a crying blanket. No wife in sight.
Left you with a hole in your heart. Her pecking dis-order did this. Your love has spilled out and has soaked the empty marital bed.
Left you with nothing...... no warm, full length wife to spoon your Post Coital Toasties onto.
Left you depressed and blind, your loving eyes cried/dried out, your lenses and manhood all wrinkly.
Left you in the lurch, between 3 children and her friends. Lurch for you is a cold dry tub, with no warm water.....and a wide-open drain at the bottom.... releasing your sanity.
Left you for Granted....whoever this man may be. Others will tell you that Grant exists. Does he?
Left your soul and took your wallet. That to her, is the useful YOU.
Left you for Status Quo. She is happy. You? Who are you?
Left her libido in her dresser drawer. She has no use for it. She wrote that part of the marriage off. She will never write you off. No, she will never write you off, her on top, holding your pen.
Left her husband and replaced him with a butler. And this butler did not do the crime. Does not do the crime. You are a fixture in her life. You are merely tolerated. This in not a vicious action. It is non-action on her part. You are not her husband, you are a ghost that she looks straight through.
Left your love and respect on the floor. And then telling you to clean it up. Even the dust bunnies under the bed do not pay homage to the fallen respect that they see in front of them.

Answer?

Left her crumbs. See if she gets the message that you have written in braille.
Left her an ultimatum.
Left her Divorce papers.
Left her last week. Does she see the error in her ways? Does she even notice that you are gone?


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why am I NOT surprised this is your approach. And NO, the OP does NOT needs to learn to self soothe, he is perfectly right to expect his wife to be an active participant in the marriage.
> 
> OP your children do not need to be sleeping with your wife. Your wife places ZERO value on your marriage and on you as a person, other than the paycheck you provide. Why have you gone along with this?? In any family, the marriage needs to be the priority in order for the family to function properly and be healthy. Time to either man up, or get out.


In a marriage with children, children need to be the priority. Children are young only once.

The father needs to spend as much time as he can with the children. Sleeping with the young kids is a way to do that. He will also get close to his wife.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

She doesn't feel a connection to you. Her priorities are with the kids right now and it sounds like you guys have a very busy life. She is obviously not getting what she needs from you so it's easier for her to discount you. 
There is nothing worse than feeling like your spouse is another kid instead of a equal partner. Here is the issue. There is nothing sexy or comforting to be married to a "child". 
It sounds like she has tried to address the issue which hasn't gotten anywhere so she has given up completely right now. 
Why does she think your act like a child and need to grow up? What things has she told you in the past and have you changed them? There is more to this story that your not telling us.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There is no doubt this feeling persists many situations. My wife often said this about me before I had my awakening.

However, here is the true mind f*** in my situation.

The very same things my wife said were childish, she laughs at and appreciates now...the VERY SAME THINGS. So what changed? Well, obviously something unrelated. 

What changed is resentment. Resentment is what led to her telling me the things she found endearing at one time (and again now) were childish. Find the sources of the resentment, and you will begin to undo this type of scenario.

I also believe that respect will change it as well. Where does respect begin? By having integrity and honor, and living your life by taking those into account in all of your actions and decisions. One can be childish, yet still have honor and integrity. 

I will always have a sophomoric sense of humor. I will always be playful with my son. I will always make jokes to lighten the mood. I will always find humor in situations that may be uncomfortable. I will always be playful with my mate. Why? Because that is who I want to be, and I will live that way without apology. Should the day arrive that she can't stand that, she will be better off without me, and I without her.



katiecrna said:


> She doesn't feel a connection to you. Her priorities are with the kids right now and it sounds like you guys have a very busy life. She is obviously not getting what she needs from you so it's easier for her to discount you.
> There is nothing worse than feeling like your spouse is another kid instead of a equal partner. Here is the issue. There is nothing sexy or comforting to be married to a "child".
> It sounds like she has tried to address the issue which hasn't gotten anywhere so she has given up completely right now.
> Why does she think your act like a child and need to grow up? What things has she told you in the past and have you changed them? There is more to this story that your not telling us.


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