# Curious about your opinions



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I work part-time at night in retail with mostly males. We close up and leave anywhere between 10 and 10:30 pm, where the parking lot if basically empty and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working). Usually we(me and other closing manager) walk out at the same time, but lately we've had different projects and construction going on. For the last week, the other closing manager(all males) has told me to just go, walk out to my car alone and he'll be leaving later on.

As a woman, it's been drilled into my mind to never walk alone. You always use the buddy system and I always make sure other employees get to their car safely. Is this only a female way of thinking? 

The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid". I'm curious to know if this is a typical male thought or just the guys I work with? Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night or do you think it's better to leave at the same time/at least watch to make sure they make it safely to their car?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Insist on an escort or security. Contact the Human Resources Director; tell them you feel unsafe; the last thing they want is a lawsuit once you're already "on the record" with your concerns. Don't fall prey to the "old boys' network" B.S.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

Not a man but I have never had a man walk me to my car after work. They've never offered, I've never asked.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Giro flee said:


> Not a man but I have never had a man walk me to my car after work. They've never offered, I've never asked.


Ummm...not sure where you work. But when I worked downtown in a major metro area, my car several blocks away, you better be sure I asked for a d*mn security escort when the company REQUIRED me to stay late!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> Insist on an escort or security. Contact the Human Resources Director; tell them you feel unsafe; the last thing they want is a lawsuit once you're already "on the record" with your concerns. Don't fall prey to the "old boys' network" B.S.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. I think you need to do what you feel is needed to be safe.

On the rare occasion that I worked back late and was relying on public transport, the company were cool with/encouraged expensing a cab ride home instead of walking to the station alone. 

Other industries I've worked in have been different. It may depend on the mindset of your co-workers and how far away you need to park and if there are security officers patrolling etc.?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working).


This alone needs to be corrected. Is there a facilities manager?


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Depends on where yo u work. 

I pulled 4-12's back as a stocker for a pos crocery store. We had a female cashseir pull the same shift. 

And we always left at tsame time. 
If she asekd, I would walk her to her car. 
I always thought it excess ive since we didn't work in the inner city. But wahtever. Did have some wierd scares. 

If you are scared, just ask a guy to walk you out. Use some excuse, fabricate it, or bring up some recent crimes or a neaby crime.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Of course you should be seen safely to your car, common sense and decency. I wonder if they would be more caring if it were their wives, daughters that were walking to the car at night?


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I've worked at restaurants, grocery stores, a school, and a church. Some of these places were in a large metropolitan area, some in the suburbs. Nobody has ever walked me to my car. I've had many a heart thumping walk home. Not always fun being a woman.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> I work part-time at night in retail with mostly males. We close up and leave anywhere between 10 and 10:30 pm, where the parking lot if basically empty and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working). Usually we(me and other closing manager) walk out at the same time, but lately we've had different projects and construction going on. For the last week, the other closing manager(all males) has told me to just go, walk out to my car alone and he'll be leaving later on.
> 
> As a woman, it's been drilled into my mind to never walk alone. You always use the buddy system and I always make sure other employees get to their car safely. Is this only a female way of thinking?
> 
> The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid". I'm curious to know if this is a typical male thought or just the guys I work with? Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night or do you think it's better to leave at the same time/at least watch to make sure they make it safely to their car?


We (men) don't get it. We've never been afraid even though maybe we should be. It's just not in our DNA to feel vulnerable. So that being said, it makes sense that your male co-workers don't understand and possibly that they think it would look fishy to be walking you to your car.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Insist on an escort or security. Contact the Human Resources Director; tell them you feel unsafe; the last thing they want is a lawsuit once you're already "on the record" with your concerns. Don't fall prey to the "old boys' network" B.S.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don’t know I’d chalk it up to “old boys” as much as everybody is having to work extra hours and the company is being cheap in not assuring there is adequately lit and safe facilities. The other managers probably want to get home to family too and the extra 15-20 minutes is being seen as an imposition. 

Not saying it’s right or wrong. I’ve walked countless female colleagues to their cars late at night – I get both sides of the equation i.e., as a male in management nobody has ever walked me to my car and being a male is not a sine qua sine guarantee of my safety. On the other hand, if you can pull your car up to a better area, say at six or seven in the evening, do so. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

That said, working in the risk management and legal area, I can tell you the company should be concerned and is at risk should something happen but (and you know your company and coworkers better than me) . . . . sometimes doing and requesting the right thing can knock you out of a job. 

If that’s a concern, I’d suggest polishing your resume. If they don’t care about their employee’s safety, I can guarantee you there’s a whole lot more they don’t care about as well.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Giro flee said:


> Nobody has ever walked me to my car. *I've had many a heart thumping walk home.* Not always fun being a woman.




Well, there you go! I had a few "perilous" walks to my car as well.

OP, why are you putting yourself in unnecessary danger? Just to save yourself from a little embarrassment? A little "embarrassment" goes a long way to prevent a rape (or worse).

Use the old noggin' and ask for an escort to your car!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

MAGLITE S4D016 Heavy-Duty 4-D Cell Flashlight, Black

I recommend This. It's what I would carry If I was walking you to your car. Honestly I wouldn't turn down a request I might even ask a second guy to go with.
MN


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> MAGLITE S4D016 Heavy-Duty 4-D Cell Flashlight, Black
> 
> I recommend This.


Yeppers, and maybe some pepper spray AND a taser gun.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Perhaps some of you have never lived in a large urban area? I have lived in the Los Angeles basin for 30 years and have always lived in “nice/affluent” areas, still in that time I have experienced the following:

I was chased to my car, in broad daylight, by a couple of thugs outside a 7-eleven where I had stopped to buy a soft drink for the ride home from work.

I was filling my car up for the ride home from work when a man with an automatic rifle tried to rob the station and started shooting up the place.

I was driving through a neighborhood on the way to a friend’s house when the Los Angeles riots started right before my eyes.

A man came into the crosswalk where I was stopped at a red light and tried to open my car door.

I was at a red light alongside a cyclist when a man came off the sidewalk, assaulted the cyclist and then rode off on his bicycle.

I could go on … but you get the idea.

I always carry mace and usually have a large/trained dog loose inside my car. *If I have the slightest doubt about the safety of walking to my car alone, I always ask security to escort me (work, store, mall, etc.). *Call me paranoid all you want; to me the precautions I take are common sense.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I worked nights for a while at one place and they had a call button about thirty feet from the door, that you could push and would connect you directly to the police station. The station was less than a tenth of a mile away from where I worked. No kidding. Sure, I was afraid. I left alone at around 2:35 am. Not so much a man or woman thing, sometimes.

Men sometimes don't think about that stuff. Usually, it's not that they don't care if someone gets hurt. 

Asking, I imagine makes you feel incompetent or embarrassed or less than...whatever. I like SpinDaddy's suggestions. I would not make a big deal of it unless you have a job to go to. I would find a way to ask someone to walk with me, move the care closer before it gets too late, ask about the lighting(gently until you find things out just like checking up on a WS). 

Mace might help, but you never know for certain. Don't you have to have a class for that? Some things, I know you do have to take a class for, like the taser gun. Taking a class on self defense will give you a little confidence. It won't make you safe. Really, it's about learning what to do if something should happen, while doing what you can to have the least chance something will happen. Flashlights are good, but remember, anything you carry can possibly be taken from you and used on you. I guess knowing when to use and what to use is very important. Again, sometimes "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Edit: Red Sonja has it down. Learn what you can from her.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> Perhaps some of you have never lived in a large urban area? I have lived in the Los Angeles basin for 30 years and have always lived in “nice/affluent” areas, still in that time I have experienced the following:
> 
> I was chased to my car, in broad daylight, by a couple of thugs outside a 7-eleven where I had stopped to buy a soft drink for the ride home from work.
> 
> ...


You're not paranoid at all but we don't get it until we listen. It's really not in the DNA of many (men who would never be a predator) to understand the valid fears that women face.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have never let a woman walk without escort in your situation ever. It sounds like you work with a bunch of pvssies!&#55357;&#56850;

I have even personally escorted women I can't stand safely to their cars. I will be damned if a woman is left vulnerable when it can be prevented.

Please speak up. All it takes is once. One moment and life is changed forever or simply over. I have seen a lot of shyt in my time and it all could have been prevented.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I have never let a woman walk without escort in your situation ever. It sounds like you work with a bunch of pvssies!


See you instinctively got it CH. Many of us didn't get it. That does not make us pvssies at all. It just means we didn't understand.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> You're not paranoid at all but we don't get it until we listen. It's really not in the DNA of many (men who would never be a predator) to understand the valid fears that women face.


I get that but can I ask a genuine question of you or any of the other men here?

If it were your daughter or wife, mother, sister, would you have an automatic understanding of the need to offer protection?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I would do all I could to discourage her from working a shift like that, or in such a dangerous part of town, but, I don't think most fathers, husbands or brothers work with their family or wives. If she had to work in a situation like that, I think I would be very concerned. I don't think it would be out of line to ask for a companion, or do any other preventive action. I think threatening a boss or a human resources manager with a lawsuit would be bad, especially if it's the only job in town. 

I'm thinking grants, loans and community college or trade/tech school and a better job in a better area. You do live in the USA, right? I'm thinking look into government help like food stamps, money for your child/ren from the state. We have WIC. Anything to get that education and a better job in a better area.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I wouldn't count on male relatives understanding either. Many of them find your worry to be overly dramatic. My relatives never offered me a ride home or escort either.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, they say chivalry is dead. I believe it.

When I worked in the corporate world (granted, it was 25 years ago) coworkers or security guards OFFERED to walk the ladies out to their cars. No need to ask, no ifs ands or buts. They just did it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The women I knew that worked at the job I posted about above stayed till early in the morning. There was a different shift. There was no occasion for chivalry. The security guard, when he was there, usually asked if she wanted him to escort her to her car. Only part of the year was dark in the morning when she left. Usually, there was someone there when she was leaving, because that person started early. She was a security guard before she did this particular job. The other woman, was not concerned when she left at that time of the day. 

There are times that are worse than others. Usually, it's pretty late at night. I can remember walking home from there and running across a prostitute at around three in the morning. She wanted to talk and I didn't. Yeah, there were plenty of shootings and other things that happened where I walked. In fact, there was one in December right where I walked. 

There were prostitutes on the one bench I passed or walking. There were homeless on some benches or rummaging through dumpsters. They usually were far enough away I didn't have to speak to them, but this one prostitute hollered for me. She was high as a kite. I had no weapons and only a cell on me. I would likely have been dead if something happened. I'm no longer a twenty something and in great shape with little fear. Things change for everyone. Things are different for everyone. Edit: I didn't mean for this to read like I thought she would hurt me. You never know, but I was thinking more of the pimps or some drunk or vagrant who needs psych meds or something. Most of the homeless need help and they can carry a shank or something. Sound chicken? Meh, they never bothered me and I said hello to a couple of homeless one night. You just never know, though. The police were on patrol, doing their job, but they can't walk me home. 

I'm not sure what my point was when I started. I think it had something to do with the way things are done at work, how society has changed, blah blah blah. Bunch of hot air. Chivalry doesn't always show up every time there is someone in need. I don't know why.


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## ToothFairy (May 19, 2013)

Bad Santa...really? Are you the guy who accuses a rape victim of wearing her skirt too short too? What difference does it make who likes her or not? It's dark and there are actually psychos and thugs in the world... 

Do you watch dateline or Read the paper or are you too busy watching Fox News to care about others..?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry, but you must work with some pretty clueless guys.

You shouldn't have to ask one of your males colleagues to escort you to your car one of them should offer automatically...I would just do it, just as I still open doors and stand back for women, just as I will offer my train seat to a woman if none free....But boy do I get pi$$ed off if I get no acknowledgement but I still do it. Its the way I was brought up.

Maybe all these acts of 'chivalry' have disappeared because of sexual equality?

I once opened a door for a 30 ish year old woman and stood back to let her enter first...."I am quite capable of opening the door for myself thank you"....I was a bit gobsmacked!


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I think it might be a generational thing. For older guys the natural thing to do would be to say "time for you to go, let me make sure you get to the car OK."

These days, I think some men are afraid to do this, that they might be viewed as stalkers. 

Plus, chivalry really is dead some places, for various reasons.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Holland said:


> I get that but can I ask a genuine question of you or any of the other men here?
> 
> If it were your daughter or wife, mother, sister, would you have an automatic understanding of the need to offer protection?


I don't think it's about being protective or not. It's more about situational awareness. For example, when I was younger, it never crossed my mind that anyone (men or women) was worried walking to their car. I didn't perceive a threat so I didn't know others do. Now I was a good hearted guy so if I had been asked to walk someone to their car, my awareness would have kicked me into protective mode. Instead it seemed like a safe place.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I think you are a little paranoid to be honest.

Get yourself a mace if you want.....

Let's twist this a little. If you are a guy that's 4' 6" inches tall and skinny (smaller than most women).......would similar "should never walk alone" still apply?

No, it doesn't. No one really gives a crap for the guy. Most will say "grow some balls", "get over it" or "suck it up".

If it helps your mind OP, take some marshal art classes or get stronger.

In general, your fears are just that......a fear, chances of anything happening to you are 1 in a million IF that.

And if you have concerns, ask your husband/SO to come get you at night.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You need to take responsibility for your own safety. While it might be nice if your co-workers offered to escort you out, a) they're likely not trained to provide security, b) it's likely not in their job description to provide security, and c) you don't have any reason to believe they're not a risk to you. Part of their "not understanding" may be the change in society, as others have mentioned. Part of it could be an inconvenience factor; they're trying to get their stuff done so they can get home. 

So talk to your managers. Get your car in a better location, if you can. Get your managers to make arrangements for your security. Do like my SO does when she has to walk to her car and I can't be there; call a friend and keep them on the phone till you're in your car. Carry some protection. Get trained in some self-defence. Make a point of leaving when your coworkers do, and parking where they do.

Basically, you're a grownup. And grownups take responsibility for themselves. Your gender isn't a factor. You can thank the Women's Lib fanatics for that. "Equality for everyone! But treat us like princesses, too..."

C


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Forest said:


> I think it might be a generational thing. For older guys the natural thing to do would be to say "time for you to go, let me make sure you get to the car OK."
> 
> These days, I think some men are afraid to do this, that they might be viewed as stalkers.
> 
> Plus, chivalry really is dead some places, for various reasons.


This is true.

Also, one commited you will be expected to do this every time......and that might not go over well with the wife > as women take this sort of action to heart and might think there is attraction or something.

When in reality we are just trying to be nice.

It's like "holding the door" thing, I've heard of women saying that "holding the door" = guy wants to bang you.

That doesn't really want to make me hold the door for ANYONE anymore hehe. But I don't let that phase me and still do it.....and would walk you to the car at night as well (regardless of what you thought etc). It's just a nice thing to do for a lady in fear.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

PBear said:


> You need to take responsibility for your own safety. While it might be nice if your co-workers offered to escort you out, a) they're likely not trained to provide security, b) it's likely not in their job description to provide security, and c) you don't have any reason to believe they're not a risk to you. Part of their "not understanding" may be the change in society, as others have mentioned. Part of it could be an inconvenience factor; they're trying to get their stuff done so they can get home.
> 
> So talk to your managers. Get your car in a better location, if you can. Get your managers to make arrangements for your security. Do like my SO does when she has to walk to her car and I can't be there; call a friend and keep them on the phone till you're in your car. Carry some protection. Get trained in some self-defence. Make a point of leaving when your coworkers do, and parking where they do.
> 
> ...


You did a much better job communicating exactly what I felt......good post.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
If I am working late I will try to find an excuse to walk a woman to her car - or once at a conference a mile back to her hotel. (for whatever reason people don't see me as creepy, and don't seem worried that I'm a threat). Needless to say, if I get the impression that someone doesn't want company, I don't push.

I'm not actually any protection - a typical girl-scout could take me out with one hand tied behind her back, but two people are much less of a target than one

If most women went out alone at night, the risk to any one would be very small, but since most women do not walk alone at night, the few who do are at considerable risk.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm the type that would worry about the darkness -being a woman & all.....but not want to bother anyone, I hate making waves.... .so I'd probably buy some mace, a freaking high pitched decibal alarm and brave it... Tasers...are we even allowed to carry those?

How about something like this...

Vigilant 130 dB Personal Rape/Jogger/Student Emergency Alarm 

That in one hand, this in the other...

 SABRE RED Pepper Spray - Police Strength - Compact, Pink Case with Quick Release Key Ring (Max Protection - 25 shots, up to 5X's more) : Self Defense Pepper Spray


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

BTW... I would add that I would walk a co-workers out to her car, and I have. I have taught my son similar values. But what I posted in here is what I try to teach my daughter. 

C


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The reason I like the flashlight is:
One it lets the bad guy know you are not an easy target he can see from a distance that you are carrying a big stick. 
Second if you shine it in his eyes it gives you a head start to run away.
Third they are no laws limiting your use of a flashlight. 
As a last resort you could actually hit someone with it.
The choice of protection is determined by what you feel comfortable with, and what you can use most effectively.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I have no idea who this guy is. A quick search and just reading the article made me want to post this. Read and do at your own risk. I must not be entering the proper search terms. 

The Truth about Violence : 3 Principles of Self-Defense : Sam Harris


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> This alone needs to be corrected. Is there a facilities manager?


We've called on it multiple times, but so far nothing has happened. The company that owns/is supposed to take care of the lights in the parking lot keep saying they will fix the issue, but it's been weeks with nothing happening. 



Red Sonja said:


> Perhaps some of you have never lived in a large urban area? I have lived in the Los Angeles basin for 30 years and have always lived in “nice/affluent” areas, still in that time I have experienced the following:
> 
> I was chased to my car, in broad daylight, by a couple of thugs outside a 7-eleven where I had stopped to buy a soft drink for the ride home from work.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention LA, as I live in Southern California, too. I've had similar instances, like a man trying to open my car door at a stop light while driving down PCH(luckily I always lock my doors). Lots of crazy people! 

The city I work in is near the beach. It's a wealthy city, great school district, very family friendly, but because of the nice weather/general location it is also the hang out for a number of homeless people and drug addicts. I see them a lot in the parking lot, along with some drug addicts who are regulars in our store. I actually got cornered by a guy about a year ago when leaving from work, but luckily my manager(tall, big guy) was about 8 feet behind me and ran up to tell the guy to back off. I've taken a self-defense class back in college, but I just froze when it happened. 

Normally, the 2 of us who are closing always walk out together, but in the last few weeks things have been crazy with the construction and projects we have. It's all guys and me there at night, and I just don't think the guys think about the same things I do in regards to safety.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Asking, I imagine makes you feel incompetent or embarrassed or less than...whatever. I like SpinDaddy's suggestions. I would not make a big deal of it unless you have a job to go to. I would find a way to ask someone to walk with me, move the care closer before it gets too late, ask about the lighting(gently until you find things out just like checking up on a WS).


My reasoning for not saying anything at work, at least not yet, is because the manager in charge of scheduling is very fickle. The slightest thing can set him off, and he'll drop my hours and make up some reasoning for why that happened. He's a huge pain the butt. 



2ntnuf said:


> I would do all I could to discourage her from working a shift like that, or in such a dangerous part of town, but, I don't think most fathers, husbands or brothers work with their family or wives. If she had to work in a situation like that, I think I would be very concerned. I don't think it would be out of line to ask for a companion, or do any other preventive action. I think threatening a boss or a human resources manager with a lawsuit would be bad, especially if it's the only job in town.
> 
> I'm thinking grants, loans and community college or trade/tech school and a better job in a better area. You do live in the USA, right? I'm thinking look into government help like food stamps, money for your child/ren from the state. We have WIC. Anything to get that education and a better job in a better area.


I actually have a bachelor's degree, but we had made the decision for me to stay at the job I have because of the flexibility it offered(we've never used gov help). It has allowed me to stay home with our son during the day, keeping him out of daycare(son has health issues, so daycare could be very bad news - plus I love being with him), while still earning an income at night when my husband takes over for taking care of our son. It's part-time and it has worked out well, until lately. The previous manager I worked with always made sure I made it to my car okay, but he left the company a couple months ago. The other 2 managers I work with, depending on the day, don't seem to care. I think they just view me as "one of the guys", so it just never crosses their mind.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't think most men automatically recognize the concerns many women have regarding safety. 

At the same time, I was raised in a culture where it wouldn't occur to any man not to at least offer to walk a lady to her car. My 14 year old son automatically offers. He's probably never even thought deeply about why - or considered that it might be okay to skip extending that courtesy. That just wouldn't happen. It's a product of training and social conditioning - like saying "ma'am" and "sir", doffing your hat indoors, offering up your seat to an older person, or opening doors for others. 

That said, I always assume that I'm responsible for my own safety.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

DoF said:


> I think you are a little paranoid to be honest.
> 
> Get yourself a mace if you want.....
> 
> ...


I'll just have to disagree with you. 

Yes, it still applies. There are usually 2 who leave work half an hour to an hour before me and I watch to make sure they get to their car, whether they are guys or girls(doesn't matter). The girls are always thankful and the guys sometimes get embarrassed, but it's just how I do things. I think it's a good, respectful thing to do. 

I work about half an hour away from home and we have a toddler who would be sleeping at that time, so my husband can't come get me. It's a lot easier to just walk with someone to my car or just have some watch me for the whole extra minute or so it might take someone.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night...


I would not be okay with that, but at the same time, it can be a, "Damned if you do -- Damned if you don't" dilemma when the coworker is female.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

There is certain body language that makes you less of a target too.

Shoulders back, head up (remember to scan your surroundings, be aware of who and what is in your environment), walk with confidence.

Attackers don't like going after confident, self aware people. They want an easy target.

I second asking your spouse, even a friend to meet up with you or being on the phone with them. Talk loud and confidently on the phone.

Learning self defence is another good suggestion, pepper spray is OK but a taser can be turned on you (so can pepper spray but less painful and less possibility of fatal) with the wrong assailant or situation.

Good luck! Get all the coworkers and management on the owners arse for those street lights! Cite legal liability and insurance liability for them if they keep baulking and dragging their feet. No owner likes to be reminded of profit loss of a potential situation.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> My reasoning for not saying anything at work, at least not yet, is because the manager in charge of scheduling is very fickle. The slightest thing can set him off, and he'll drop my hours and make up some reasoning for why that happened. He's a huge pain the butt.


Exactly what I expected among a few thoughts that came to mind. 





Anonymous07 said:


> I actually have a bachelor's degree, but we had made the decision for me to stay at the job I have because of the flexibility it offered(we've never used gov help). It has allowed me to stay home with our son during the day, keeping him out of daycare(son has health issues, so daycare could be very bad news - plus I love being with him), while still earning an income at night when my husband takes over for taking care of our son. It's part-time and it has worked out well, until lately. The previous manager I worked with always made sure I made it to my car okay, but he left the company a couple months ago. The other 2 managers I work with, depending on the day, don't seem to care. I think they just view me as "one of the guys", so it just never crosses their mind.


I aplogize for assuming you were stuck in a retail position that forced you to close a store. I assumed you were some sort of salesperson who had to make sure certain things were done before you left. I also realize managers of these stores must do other work prior to leaving, but after closing to patrons. With a bachelor's, there is no reason to need it, unless you need to update your skillset and are making the proper income to receive benefits. With a husband who works as well, life would seem grand. YMMV

So, you don't have to work, but you want to so you aren't too bored and keep up your skills? Since you have a baby, you must work at a place that places your importance higher than their profits. You are then angry because you aren't being taken seriously by others who have to work there and deal with it constantly, though you aren't willing to wait till they are ready to leave, you want them to walk you out when you are ready to leave?

Apologies if that's confusing, but I think I'm hearing you.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

CantePe said:


> There is certain body language that makes you less of a target too.
> 
> Shoulders back, head up (remember to scan your surroundings, be aware of who and what is in your environment), walk with confidence.
> 
> ...


Great advice. With regards to the unsafe conditions, start making a documentation chain. If there's a thread of provable documentation showing requests for safety items, a company knows they're much more liable than if someone happened to mention it in passing in the washroom.

C


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Insist on an escort or security. Contact the Human Resources Director; tell them you feel unsafe; the last thing they want is a lawsuit once you're already "on the record" with your concerns. Don't fall prey to the "old boys' network" B.S.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


heck I would feel safe with you escorting me


I am only up to 3 sets of 3 military style pull ups

I can do more but not military style


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I aplogize for assuming you were stuck in a retail position that forced you to close a store. I assumed you were some sort of salesperson who had to make sure certain things were done before you left. I also realize managers of these stores must do other work prior to leaving, but after closing to patrons. With a bachelor's, there is no reason to need it, unless you need to update your skillset and are making the proper income to receive benefits. With a husband who works as well, life would seem grand. YMMV
> 
> So, you don't have to work, but you want to so you aren't too bored and keep up your skills? Since you have a baby, you must work at a place that places your importance higher than their profits. You are then angry because you aren't being taken seriously by others who have to work there and deal with it constantly, though you aren't willing to wait till they are ready to leave, you want them to walk you out when you are ready to leave?
> 
> Apologies if that's confusing, but I think I'm hearing you.


Sorry, let me clear up a few things. 

I have a bachelor's degree, but I am not using it right now. My degree is in sciences and with the hours I am working(and want to keep, for now), no one really wants to hire me for those hours, so it's been easier to just stay where I am. I don't get paid a whole lot, but it's enough to help cover groceries and health insurance. My husband also has a bachelor's degree and is looking for a different job to get paid more(not using his degree right now and wants to do so). He has a lot of issues with his job, but that's a whole other story. We just make ends meet with how things are. 

I have to work in order to help pay bills, otherwise I would quit and just stay home with our son. We're doing what we have to for our family. I'm not necessarily expecting special treatment, I just find it odd that not everyone thinks of others' safety. As a woman, we're always taught to look out for certain things(know your surroundings, etc.) and act a certain way(buddy system, etc.), but many guys have no thought about it. I know my brother is one of them and just thinks nothing will ever happen. He can be too trusting and naive, and he has had to learn the hard way(had his backpack stolen at the beach, fights with his gf for not being enough of a gentleman, etc.). I just find it odd. 

We all park in a general area of the parking lot, so we're not that far away. It takes all but a couple minutes to just watch from the doorway to make sure someone gets to their car safely. I do it for other employees there, as there are one or two people who leave before me and I make sure they're okay. I would feel horrible if something happened on my watch.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Sorry, let me clear up a few things.
> 
> I have a bachelor's degree, but I am not using it right now. My degree is in sciences and with the hours I am working(and want to keep, for now), no one really wants to hire me for those hours, so it's been easier to just stay where I am. I don't get paid a whole lot, but it's enough to help cover groceries and health insurance. My husband also has a bachelor's degree and is looking for a different job to get paid more(not using his degree right now and wants to do so). He has a lot of issues with his job, but that's a whole other story. We just make ends meet with how things are.
> 
> ...


So, you leave earlier than the rest of them. How long would you have to stay to leave at the same time? Is there something you could do there and get paid for while waiting? Seems to me a bachelor's would afford you many different areas of skill and could be used to help in other areas. I know it's science, not business. Still, logic is key to many things in life and you must have loads of it if you have a bachelor's in science.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anonymous07 said:


> We all park in a general area of the parking lot, so we're not that far away. *It takes all but a couple minutes to just watch from the doorway to make sure someone gets to their car safely. I do it for other employees there, as there are one or two people who leave before me and I make sure they're okay. *I would feel horrible if something happened on my watch.


What is your working relationship like with the guys who are there who could just stand there and watch you walk to your car -which takes just a minute or 2 of their time -their eyes out the window....till you get your lights on & step on the gas...

Maybe I missed it but how have you let them know this is a concern* to you *and how were you brushed off..what did they say exactly? or is it more in what they didn't say.....and the not offering...leaving you feeling -"I'm on my own in this"..


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SA, the business world is not the same as the personal world. It can be done once in a while. It likely will not be done all the time, unless it's another woman friend and they leave at the same time or have each other's backs. When there is a repetitive nature of these things, the manager takes notice and wants to know why the receipts have not been turned in yet, so he can make out his daily report and get home to his wife, who is pregnant and hormonal. Soon, questions start. Why is that one guy always helping her? Does his wife know? It's all over the CWI threads here at TAM.

If her dad worked there, he'd do it and risk raises, promotions, or his job, but his wife would understand and encourage it. 

This is different. A security guard's job is to do as she is asking. He is supposed to help. The work place has reasonable expectations. If they are not accommodating and she wants to keep her job, she needs to tread lightly, while addressing the situation. An attorney may be able to help her. Security at that shopping center needs addressed and the homeless situation needs to be addressed with taxes and help from the government, because those folks have something wrong that they can't fix and find sustainable employment. The police need to address the drug problems. Those drug dealers need turned in to the authorities. The others do as well, but it won't help them long-term to change the situation. 

She can constantly call the police or she can work with some agencies that help those people, petition the government to provide relief for some and jail for others. Go to city council meetings and address the topic. In the mean time, it doesn't help her to get to her car safely, or home safely.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Wear yoga pants. Improves the odds someone will watch you leave... 

Your request seems reasonable, but you'll have to be specific in asking someone. If they only have to watch you "for a minute", they probably don't think there's any reason to be concerned. 

C


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I see a few choices. 
1. get a buddy who leaves with you
2. talk to human resources
3. have husband come and get you
4. call police
5. ask security to walk you out every day at the same time
6. get involved with the community
7. stay at work until the rest or some others are getting out at same time
8. take self defense classes
9. park closer
10. get a different job
11. a combination of many of these

Or, rely on someone else for your safety who has much less at stake. I don't personally like that option, but it's less responsibility.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> SA, the business world is not the same as the personal world.


 I'm not saying I disagree with you at all really... I just asked because Anon07 made mention of watching for other employees, even the men who go out at night... 

It's like in my one post here.. I wouldn't be asking, I would look upon this as a hazard of this particular job working at night.....If I wanted to stay...I'd arm myself like I expected a man to jump out & grab me...

I know my H would not be comfortable with that walk alone across the pitch dark parking lot though...he'd prefer I stayed a half an hour later & walked out with a co-worker if that was an option.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm not saying I disagree with you at all really... I just asked because Anon07 made mention of watching for other employees, even the men who go out at night...
> 
> It's like in my one post here.. I wouldn't be asking, I would look upon this as a hazard of this particular job working at night.....If I wanted to stay...I'd arm myself like I expected a man to jump out & grab me...
> 
> I know my H would not be comfortable with that walk alone across the pitch dark parking lot though...he'd prefer I stayed a half an hour later & walked out with a co-worker if that was an option.


Totally agree. I wasn't looking for you to agree with me. You went a different direction in that post I commented on. It wasn't a personal attack, just disagreement. We can do that, can't we?

I wonder if A07's husband feels the same? Me thinks there is something else afoot.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> Totally agree. I wasn't looking for you to agree with me. You went a different direction in that post I commented on. It wasn't a personal attack, just disagreement. We can do that, can't we?
> 
> I wonder if A07's husband feels the same? Me thinks there is something else afoot.


Why of course 2ntnuf .. diversity of opinions is the spice of life.. if we all felt the same ...how boring life & communication would be!


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Giro flee said:


> I've worked at restaurants, grocery stores, a school, and a church. Some of these places were in a large metropolitan area, some in the suburbs. Nobody has ever walked me to my car. I've had many a heart thumping walk home. Not always fun being a woman.


Wow. I've had plenty of walks to my car from men. It's the courteous thing to do! Sounds like you need to work with better people and in better places.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Okay, this got a little off track from where I wanted this to go. I was looking more for opinions on whether this was a common thought process/way of doing things or not. I do already know what my options are to 'fix' the problem, which is more of a temporary issue. It seems fairly common for guys to just not think about it, where as women do.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Maybe I missed it but how have you let them know this is a concern* to you *and how were you brushed off..what did they say exactly? or is it more in what they didn't say.....and the not offering...leaving you feeling -"I'm on my own in this"..


I never brought the topic up for a few different reasons, so there is no response to go off of, but I do wait for my manager to leave with me. He has old me the last few times that the front door is unlocked and I can just leave, but I have always said I'll wait for him. I'd rather not go alone. He thinks I should just go and doesn't get why I stay, as to him it's not a big deal for me to leave alone. It just doesn't cross his mind as an issue. The same goes for the other male manager I work with, so I'm on my own to look out for safety. We have one female manager who works days, rarely at night and she does the same as me to watch out for the other employees. It's only the women that seem to care about that topic.

At my old job, years ago, it was very different. Every one there was safety conscious. The store manager made it very clear that people should use the buddy system and not walk alone to their car. That does not happen at my current job, so I'm curious to know what the 'norm' is on that topic.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

In my current job which is on an isolated campus in the middle of no where with well lit parking lots and security cameras all over I don't offer to escort anyone. 

In prior jobs that were in the city I did offer to escort women to their cars if they wanted. 

I didn't really have awareness of what women went through until a female co-worker recounted a story about being followed by a stranger right to her house in the city at 10PM. She ran up her front steps, about a dozen of them, then turned to look at him at the bottom and let out a blood curdling scream. He looked startled and walked away quickly. She'll never know what his intent was. Did he happen to be walking the same route as her or was he planning to drag her into the bushes?

The route she was walking was one that I considered to be perfectly safe...for me. It was an upscale neighborhood that had its share of break-ins by people from less affluent areas. Kind of a destination point for car thieves and B&E guys. 

I always tell my D21 to be aware of her surroundings. She's doesn't live near me so she has to look out for herself. She's had quite a bit of martial arts and Army MAC training... probably enough to make her more competent than most men at self defense, but she will always be a more likely target than most men, too.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I work part-time at night in retail with mostly males. We close up and leave anywhere between 10 and 10:30 pm, where the parking lot if basically empty and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working). Usually we(me and other closing manager) walk out at the same time, but lately we've had different projects and construction going on. For the last week, the other closing manager(all males) has told me to just go, walk out to my car alone and he'll be leaving later on.
> 
> As a woman, it's been drilled into my mind to never walk alone. You always use the buddy system and I always make sure other employees get to their car safely. Is this only a female way of thinking?
> 
> The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid". I'm curious to know if this is a typical male thought or just the guys I work with?


_Hopefully_ it's just the guys that you work with. Personally, if it were me, I'd be more than happy to walk w/ you to your vehicle. Or, _at the very least_, to walk w/ you to the door and then watch as you walk across the parking lot to your vehicle.

And yeah, maybe you're being a teeny bit paranoid, but how is that a _bad_ thing? If you were my wife/mother/aunt/cousin, I'd WANT you to be at least a little paranoid when walking to your vehicle by yourself, and _especially_ when it's dark outside.

I mean... just turn on the news _anywhere_ and you'll see it -- bad things happen to women in these situations all around the world and all day long. Hell... it happens to men as well!

And w/ that thought...



Anonymous07 said:


> Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night or do you think it's better to leave at the same time/at least watch to make sure they make it safely to their car?


As a teenager I worked at a McDonald's, and the general rule was that, after closing, and once ALL of the post-closing cleanup work was complete, _everyone left together._ As w/ any rule, there were a few occasions where it wasn't observed, but that all came to an abrupt end once one of the regional supervisors was grabbed at gunpoint upon leaving the store by himself.

This wasn't a small guy. I'd say he was at least 6'2" and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 lbs. He'd been in the store after hours doing inventory and left at around 2 am. A group of punks (probably from one of the local gangs) grabbed him, robbed him, and then drove around w/ him for an hour or so before letting him go.

After that, stricter procedures were established for exiting the store upon closing, and any manager that didn't follow them to the letter risked losing his or her job.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Okay, this got a little off track from where I wanted this to go. I was looking more for opinions on whether this was a common thought process/way of doing things or not. I do already know what my options are to 'fix' the problem, which is more of a temporary issue. It seems fairly common for guys to just not think about it, where as women do.


So, you want to change society? Possible answers were provided. This is just a complaint thread then. You don't have a problem, you just feel women in general are being disenfranchised. Okay. Sorry for being concerned about you and good luck changing society. You'll have better luck changing yourself and presenting a good example for others around you to learn from.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> So, you want to change society? Possible answers were provided. This is just a complaint thread then. You don't have a problem, you just feel women in general are being disenfranchised. Okay. Sorry for being concerned about you and good luck changing society. You'll have better luck changing yourself and presenting a good example for others around you to learn from.


Relax 2ntnuf. I appreciate the answers. I'm not trying to change anything at the moment, just trying to understand. It's helpful to better understand the guys I work with, so I know how to proceed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Relax 2ntnuf. I appreciate the answers. I'm not trying to change anything at the moment, just trying to understand. It's helpful to better understand the guys I work with, so I know how to proceed.


Flat out ask them? I don't think it will cause you to get fired.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid".


Sorry if I've missed this but have they flat-out told you that?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Flat out ask them? I don't think it will cause you to get fired.


As I said before, I'm not looking to blatantly say something because I don't want my hours cut.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Sorry if I've missed this but have they flat-out told you that?


No, that was what my brother said when we talked about the topic. The other manager just kind of rolled his eyes when I said I'd wait for him instead of walking out alone, so I'm assuming his thought process is not far from my brother's.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> As I said before, I'm not looking to blatantly say something because I don't want my hours cut.


Yeah, I read that. The answer is within you. Find it, and you will find peace. You are a nice young woman A07.  I hope you know that.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> No, that was what my brother said when we talked about the topic. The other manager just kind of rolled his eyes when I said I'd wait for him instead of walking out alone, so I'm assuming his thought process is not far from my brother's.


What's your rapport like with the other manager beyond this? And what is your husband's take on it? 

At the end of the day, and regardless of what anyone else thinks, you need to trust your instincts and do what is needed for you to feel safe.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> What's your rapport like with the other manager beyond this? And what is your husband's take on it?
> 
> At the end of the day, and regardless of what anyone else thinks, you need to trust your instincts and do what is needed for you to feel safe.


We're fine beyond this. He tends to think of himself as "Mr. Cool", in which I'd love to roll my eyes  at that, but that's about it. We'll joke around at times to make retail work bearable, so it's not that we don't get along. And in case anyone goes there, no I'm not interested in any of the guys at work(not in the slightest).

This has only been an issue lately with what is going on, so my husband offered to have me call him when I leave and we'll talk as I go to my car. I just wasn't/am not sure I'd want to because then I can't listen for what's around me.

I know some people think it's being paranoid, but I'd rather be paranoid than some news story. As a child, I lived in a nice neighborhood, but was followed by some guy in a truck when I was walking the dog. I hid behind a bush in a neighbor's yard and watched him slow down and look for me, then drive away. I'd rather be safe, than sorry.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Anonymous07 said:


> I know some people think it's being paranoid, but I'd rather be paranoid than some news story.


Many many moons ago, I worked hospitality. I had to close our area at the end of the night. I'd walk around the whole area, including the locker rooms. One evening I was taken by surprise when there was still a man in the locker room - despite it being well past closing for us. I played it cool to the guest, reminding him we'd closed and offering our opening hours for the following day etc. He was fine about it; likely just lost track of time. As for being paranoid? ....inside I absolutely felt startled that he was in there after I'd locked up. 

It was procedure that I'd phone security when I was ready to walk the day's takings to finance. I had a good rapport with head of security and told them I'd felt uneasy about a guy still being in there and so I worked a different way of closing up that meant the last thing for me to do was to go through the men's area. I'd call security and they'd wait a few minutes for me while I did this and were great about it. I've mentioned this scenario purposely compared to a scenario about late at night in the city or something. And the thing is, if another female team member had to close up, she felt that similar sense of uneasiness going through the men's area after closing too. You can color me paranoid as well.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

A07, I never would have a problem walking a woman out to her car in the dark.

Get a very very bright small flashlight. Some have a crenelated bezel which is the rim around the lens. It has jagged edges and makes a definite impression on someone's face if you strike them with it. But before they get that close you have pretty well blinded them with the brightness. So you don't want a cheapo little light, you want a serious "tactical" flashlight. Carry it in your hand and if someone approaches you, just shine it right in their face and run.

Don't be afraid to make a scene. If someone is acting oddly, verbally challenge them from afar. "Are you following me? STAY AWAY!". Loudly challenge them. If they are innocent they will back away embarrassed and apologizing. If they intend harm, you have identified them from a distance and can take further evasive actions.

Pepper spray is better than nothing but not always effective. Buy two well rated small units. Put on goggles, latex gloves, and a respirator (if you can borrow one from somebody), and go practice deploying one of them until you are certain you can do it in the dark by feel only. Then put the second one in your purse or on your keychain. Have it in your hand as you walk in the dark to your car. Have your light in the other hand.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't think you are paranoid at all A07. That actually was not where I was headed. I thought you needed to take action to protect yourself in what ever ways you can and not rely on a guy standing at a door who turned away just as the van that seemed to pass threw you inside and drove off. 

What's inside that you need is the courage to take action even in fear, which I tried to represent with my own stories of fear. I cannot tell you exactly what you need to do. I'm not trained in that sense. 

Thor is being practical. I know some women who carry those and a S&W revolver with no hammer and dbl action only, loaded with .38 +P cartridges. Unless you are trained and practice, practice, practice with anything you carry, just like Thor posted, those things can be used on you, which is why I posted that. Only you can decide what you want to do and how far you want to go within the limits of the law. I don't even know what the laws are where you live. It's still trying to fix something and not respecting your intelligence. I don't want you to get hurt or break the law.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

It's a difficult situation. Men have stopped doing these things for women due to a few reasons. 

Women want to be treated equally. Many women want to be seen as strong as men are. Many women wouldn't offer the same courtesy to men (not saying that you wouldn't, just in general). Many women preach all day long about how independent they are, how they don't need a man for anything, how they can do anything a man can do. If that's the way it is, then learn to protect yourself as best you can. Call the manager and often. Get them to fix the lights outside, carry a flashlight, mace, and anything else you can use as a weapon if you need to. 


Men may also pull back from doing this because it can be seen as inappropriate. Rumors start flying about Bob and Jane walking out to her car every night. 

Men may pull back for fear of being accuse of sexual assault. He said/she said situations are not places men tend to put themselves anymore. A man walking a woman to her car - alone - in the dark....


Also, you have to think that the person that is walking you out could also be a risk to your safety. 

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing now.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> It's a difficult situation. Men have stopped doing these things for women due to a few reasons.
> 
> Women want to be treated equally. Many women want to be seen as strong as men are. Many women wouldn't offer the same courtesy to men (not saying that you wouldn't, just in general). Many women preach all day long about how independent they are, how they don't need a man for anything, how they can do anything a man can do. If that's the way it is, then learn to protect yourself as best you can. Call the manager and often. Get them to fix the lights outside, carry a flashlight, mace, and anything else you can use as a weapon if you need to.
> 
> ...


This is a very good post staarz21. You're correct about us not knowing what to do because offering may seem like a nice jesture to one woman but can be insulting to another. Also the inappropriate part rings true because their are too many people are busy bodies that like to start rumors and stir the pot. In short, I think it's important that the woman actually ask someone to walk her out.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I always had a whistle, because I'm one of those people who freezes up when scared and my voice disappears. I used the whistle several times when I had a long walk home at 1:00 in the morning. I also had some sort of zapper thing. I never needed that, I had it out one night when a flasher started to follow me but he ran off when I blew my whistle. 

I honestly would have never asked one of the men to walk me somewhere, what if they turned out to be creepy? Who would believe me? 

I live in the upper Midwest and I just don't think it is very common for men to volunteer this kind of help. I think eye rolling and thoughts of you being a paranoid drama queen are much more likely around here.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Having someone watch you walk out to your car isn't going to be any kind of a deterrent to you "becoming a news story", since someone who's going to pull any stunt isn't going to know youre being watched. It just means the police will be alerted faster. Which is better than nothing, but you'd still be a news story.

And you don't actually have to talk to your husband... Just have him on the phone, if you're concerned about not hearing your surroundings.

C


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## Jksmum (Jan 27, 2015)

I would want someone to walk me to my car in that situation. I am a paranoid type and have asked people to walk me to my car when I felt uncomfortable.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Another self defence weapon is the kubotan. You can get one that attaches to your keychain. Do find a reputable instructor for kubotan training though. Also look into the laws (if I'm not mistaken it is the only blunt impact weapon that is legal across the board, I know its legal in Canada) regarding blunt weapon self defence.

Kubotan training is extremely highly effective.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

In my company it makes no difference if you're male or female from a heath and safety to a security ie lone worker overpowered for the keys we are not allowed to lock up alone and must leave premises together, sounds like your employer needs to review a few H&S and security issues to keep employees and the company safe


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anonymous07 said:


> I never brought the topic up for a few different reasons, so there is no response to go off of, but I do wait for my manager to leave with me. He has old me the last few times that the front door is unlocked and I can just leave, but I have always said I'll wait for him. I'd rather not go alone. He thinks I should just go and doesn't get why I stay, as to him it's not a big deal for me to leave alone. It just doesn't cross his mind as an issue. The same goes for the other male manager I work with, so I'm on my own to look out for safety. We have one female manager who works days, rarely at night and she does the same as me to watch out for the other employees. It's only the women that seem to care about that topic.
> 
> *At my old job, years ago, it was very different. Every one there was safety conscious. The store manager made it very clear that people should use the buddy system and not walk alone to their car. That does not happen at my current job, so I'm curious to know what the 'norm' is on that topic*.


Going back to Rowan's post (#41, below)... I think it has to do with the individual MAN, how he was raised.. things like that.. I WOULD SAY MORE MEN CARED, or GAVE THOUGHT TO THIS IN THE PAST ...as there was more emphasis on protecting women over today with all the equal rights ...not to mention the attitude some men have been met with in trying to help a woman, I've seen some of those posts on TAM.. and I think it's disgusting...

I think it's fair to say in our society today...so many has learned to adapt... letting the chivalry slowly die..... . 

I personally don't see our world the same anymore.. most feel that is great.. but some things have surely been lost. 

My H was raised to look out for women...I was talking to him last night...asking if this was something he would do, or even THINK about... he immediately said "YES".. not that this surprised me much.. he is very safety conscious ...he went on to explain when he worked the night shift at the Grocery store.. he always waited till the Last cashier was finished to walk her out the door.. that was generally another 10 minutes of his time... It's not something I ever realized he did -till this conversation!

Back to that post >>


Rowan said:


> I don't think most men automatically recognize the concerns many women have regarding safety.
> 
> *At the same time, I was raised in a culture where it wouldn't occur to any man not to at least offer to walk a lady to her car. My 14 year old son automatically offers. He's probably never even thought deeply about why - or considered that it might be okay to skip extending that courtesy. That just wouldn't happen.* *It's a product of training and social conditioning* - like saying "ma'am" and "sir", doffing your hat indoors, offering up your seat to an older person, or opening doors for others.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

Okay, when I think about chivalry and being a gentleman, I think about holding doors open and things like that.

All of the men in my life treat me like that and it feels good.

As for your dilemma, am I afraid to walk to my car alone late at night for fear of being attacked? NO.

Why? Because I have been attacked before and I have learned that the reason why I was attacked was because I allowed myself to go into risky situations naive. The simple fact is, you need to make sure you are taking care of yourself and not put that responsibility on others. Relying on others is blame shifting and not taking responsibility for personal actions.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I never brought the topic up for a few different reasons, so there is no response to go off of, but I do wait for my manager to leave with me. He has old me the last few times that the front door is unlocked and I can just leave, but I have always said I'll wait for him. I'd rather not go alone. He thinks I should just go and doesn't get why I stay, as to him it's not a big deal for me to leave alone. It just doesn't cross his mind as an issue. The same goes for the other male manager I work with,.


I don't understand. Why can you just say that you'd rather not walk alone at night? You yourself admit he has no idea why you are waiting for him, it doesn't cross his mind. I think you are making a problem where there is none. Sometimes all you need to do is ask.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I work part-time at night in retail with mostly males. We close up and leave anywhere between 10 and 10:30 pm, where the parking lot if basically empty and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working). Usually we(me and other closing manager) walk out at the same time, but lately we've had different projects and construction going on. For the last week, the other closing manager(all males) has told me to just go, walk out to my car alone and he'll be leaving later on.
> 
> As a woman, it's been drilled into my mind to never walk alone. You always use the buddy system and I always make sure other employees get to their car safely. Is this only a female way of thinking?
> 
> The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid". I'm curious to know if this is a typical male thought or just the guys I work with? Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night or do you think it's better to leave at the same time/at least watch to make sure they make it safely to their car?


No. Never walk alone in the parking area. Yes,I would walk a coworker to her car. No problem at all. Insist that upper management provide a safety measure at night.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Red Sonja said:


> Perhaps some of you have never lived in a large urban area? I have lived in the Los Angeles basin for 30 years and have always lived in “nice/affluent” areas, still in that time I have experienced the following:
> 
> I was chased to my car, in broad daylight, by a couple of thugs outside a 7-eleven where I had stopped to buy a soft drink for the ride home from work.
> 
> ...


When I hear about stuff like this, it amazes me. I live in a rural area where you could walk anywhere in town night or day, and nobody is going to bother you. Having to walk people to their cars for safety doesn't even cross our minds. 

I'm not saying we never have crime, of coarse we do, but nothing like what you described. I think one difference that I've always noticed is the lack of crime against random people where I'm from. Sure, someone may shoot somebody where I'm from, but it's usually going to be two ******** who have been feuding over something, not some innocent person who gets shot at random in a parking lot.

I'm curious about people who live in areas like this. I feel like if i lived in a place with that much crime where i had to watch my back all the time, I would move, but I suppose if that's all one knows and it's home, I guess it seems more normal and it's difficult to leave. Is that true?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

southbound said:


> When I hear about stuff like this, it amazes me. I live in a rural area where you could walk anywhere in town night or day, and nobody is going to bother you. Having to walk people to their cars for safety doesn't even cross our minds.
> 
> I'm not saying we never have crime, of coarse we do, but nothing like what you described. I think one difference that I've always noticed is the lack of crime against random people where I'm from. Sure, someone may shoot somebody where I'm from, but* it's usually going to be two ******** who have been feuding over something, not some innocent person *who gets shot at random in a parking lot.
> 
> I'm curious about people who live in areas like this. *I feel like if i lived in a place with that much crime where i had to watch my back all the time, I would move, but I suppose if that's all one knows and it's home, I guess it seems more normal and it's difficult to leave. Is that true?*


And the first bold phrase is what I've found too. Usually, it's over drug money or drugs, or turf or pimps. Sometimes a combination. There are those who have robbed convenience stores with gas stations, and banks. The shooting I posted about in December, which could have been early January?, not sure, anyway, was robbed by a man with a gun in November. The shooting was between two men independent of the store, but very close to that store. 

No having a good enough job to leave or the money or credit to leave is usually the reason. It's why I don't leave. In fact, shortly before we split, we were looking at houses, but she wouldn't talk money. I told her how much I could put into one, but she would not tell me. So, I said forget it. Money is the biggest factor. You can't buy what you can't afford.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

> * I will be damned if a woman is left vulnerable when it can be prevented.*[/B]


Yes! For it would be, for the grace of God, your mother, sister, wife, daughter.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

A statement like that flies in the face of equality and places women squarely as weaker than men. It is a conundrum which society needs to address, along with addressing the real issue that creates the need for a man to have to walk every woman to her car. It will never be solved completely to everyone's satisfaction.


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## Stillasamountain (Jan 13, 2014)

To answer the original question:

I'm a man. Unless we were working in a really crappy area, known for trouble, it would likely never occur to me.

Having said that, I would not act like the male manager, rolling eyes etc. Once it became apparent that a fellow female employee was nervous about the situation, I'd surely offer assistance.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Stillasamountain said:


> To answer the original question:
> 
> I'm a man. Unless we were working in a really crappy area, known for trouble, it would likely never occur to me.
> 
> Having said that, I would not act like the male manager, rolling eyes etc. Once it became apparent that a fellow female employee was nervous about the situation, I'd surely offer assistance.


The expectation seems to be that men should provide for the safety and security of all women in their immediate surroundings or work environment. "What happened to chivalry?" It's dead and what we are left with is what we are allowed to do rather than what we think is best. We must guess when someone feels they cannot handle their own safety and step in to provide that. Yes, there are obvious differences in situations. It appears that at least some of those differences are in perception of danger. Since that is based upon the individual, it seems some men will be considered weak and frightened by some, while seemingly courageous in other circumstances by someone else. 

I think someone here said, "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't."


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

southbound said:


> When I hear about stuff like this, it amazes me. I live in a rural area where you could walk anywhere in town night or day, and nobody is going to bother you. Having to walk people to their cars for safety doesn't even cross our minds.
> 
> I'm not saying we never have crime, of coarse we do, but nothing like what you described. I think one difference that I've always noticed is the lack of crime against random people where I'm from. Sure, someone may shoot somebody where I'm from, but it's usually going to be two ******** who have been feuding over something, not some innocent person who gets shot at random in a parking lot.
> 
> I'm curious about people who live in areas like this. I feel like if i lived in a place with that much crime where i had to watch my back all the time, I would move, but I suppose if that's all one knows and it's home, I guess it seems more normal and it's difficult to leave. Is that true?


I've lived in Southern California all of my life and love it here. There are certain cities/areas I will always avoid, as they can be dangerous(hanging out in Compton is probably a bad idea), but I don't live in a dangerous area. It's a very family friendly city, great school district, and has a small town feel. The city I work in is not inherently "dangerous", but with the location(close to the beach with nice steady weather) has more homeless people that hang out there. We've had on and off problems with some of them there. The benefits of living where I am far outweigh the negatives, in my opinion. I love the weather, having my extended family nearby, the many amusement parks/attractions, lots of diversity(different cultures/languages), general location(beach/mountains/desert all close by), the good food, and so on. 

The crime tends to happen in certain areas. Southern California is heavily populated and very diverse, so there are bound to be problems. Unlike other areas we don't get snow, other than in the mountains, so we have a high homeless population. Many have mental health issues and/or drug problems. One particular homeless man who hangs out near my work is an alcoholic. The police get called often because he'll make a scene yelling/cussing at someone. During the day I really have very few/no safety concerns, as there are always other people around, but at night it's a bit different.


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## Stillasamountain (Jan 13, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The expectation seems to be that men should provide for the safety and security of all women in their immediate surroundings or work environment. "What happened to chivalry?" It's dead and what we are left with is what we are allowed to do rather than what we think is best. We must guess when someone feels they cannot handle their own safety and step in to provide that. Yes, there are obvious differences in situations. It appears that at least some of those differences are in perception of danger. Since that is based upon the individual, it seems some men will be considered weak and frightened by some, while seemingly courageous in other circumstances by someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone here said, "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't."



I'm a pretty simple guy so I'm not sure if it would be chivalry, sexism, stupidity or male disposability at work. All sorts of labels / analysis you could apply.

Regardless, to me it's just the *kind* thing to do. An easy act to help comfort someone else, whether their fears are grounded in statistical reality or not.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Stillasamountain said:


> I'm a pretty simple guy so I'm not sure if it would be chivalry, sexism, stupidity or male disposability at work. All sorts of labels / analysis you could apply.
> 
> Regardless, to me it's just the *kind* thing to do. An easy act to help comfort someone else, whether their fears are grounded in statistical reality or not.


I commend you for your kindness. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand there are underlying reasons to offer assistance. Kindness is not really one of them, based upon the fact that in your example, she must have told you she was afraid. I would do the same. I would not offer to walk every woman to their car one at a time until they are all safely driving away. I don't believe you would either. You lose no man points for that. It's just common sense for a common thinker.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

southbound said:


> When I hear about stuff like this, it amazes me. I live in a rural area where you could walk anywhere in town night or day, and nobody is going to bother you. Having to walk people to their cars for safety doesn't even cross our minds.
> 
> I'm not saying we never have crime, of coarse we do, but nothing like what you described. I think one difference that I've always noticed is the lack of crime against random people where I'm from. Sure, someone may shoot somebody where I'm from, but it's usually going to be two ******** who have been feuding over something, not some innocent person who gets shot at random in a parking lot.
> 
> I'm curious about people who live in areas like this. I feel like if i lived in a place with that much crime where i had to watch my back all the time, I would move, but I suppose if that's all one knows and it's home, I guess it seems more normal and it's difficult to leave. Is that true?


For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives. I live right on the beach with an unobstructed and panoramic view of the pacific ocean, the weather is such that I can wear shorts all winter long, no humidity, no bugs and a strong and diverse economy ... where else can I get all that in the USA?


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## homerjay (Dec 12, 2014)

Anonymous07 said:


> I work part-time at night in retail with mostly males. We close up and leave anywhere between 10 and 10:30 pm, where the parking lot if basically empty and it's really dark(lights in the parking lot are not working). Usually we(me and other closing manager) walk out at the same time, but lately we've had different projects and construction going on. For the last week, the other closing manager(all males) has told me to just go, walk out to my car alone and he'll be leaving later on.
> 
> As a woman, it's been drilled into my mind to never walk alone. You always use the buddy system and I always make sure other employees get to their car safely. Is this only a female way of thinking?
> 
> The guys I work with don't seem to care and think I'm "paranoid". I'm curious to know if this is a typical male thought or just the guys I work with? Do you think it's fine to just have a coworker or other employee leave alone at night or do you think it's better to leave at the same time/at least watch to make sure they make it safely to their car?


no, it's valid. 

Perhaps car pool, or you could stay later? Do you have things at home that prevent you from doing so?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

It only took several weeks(ugh!), but they finally fixed the lights. 

I had a visiting female manager work with me yesterday and she had to stay an hour past when we would normally get off because she had to wait for the construction workers to finish up. Without me saying anything, she said she would watch to make sure I made it to my car ok. I guess it's just a female thing that we always think that way, where as most men don't.


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## homerjay (Dec 12, 2014)

it's good to always use common sense. I've never lived in an overly dangerous area, however humans are unpredictable and any time crime can happen. it sucks, but we humans can be/are a savage bunch. :smthumbup:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'd think any male manager worth his penis would offer to walk you out to your car or assign someone else to. I police in a relatively small town and I've even offered the businesses that close after dark to give us a call and me or one of my guys will slide by (assuming we aren't on a call) so the workers can get safely into their cars. We aren't a high crime area but there's no need for women feeling uneasy when it's so easy to give them a little peace of mind. There are enough other things for them to worry about in this world. Wouldn't want my wife or daughter feeling anxious unnecessarily.
Part of being a leader is taking care of your people. Getting workers safely between their cars and the building is just part of providing a safe work environment.


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