# Leave first or divorce first?



## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

Quick scenario... Married 24 years. Have 2 sons 18 and 15. My wife had a 'relationship' about 4 years ago, which I found out about and wasn't happy about. She said it was in the past. Not so sure. She pronounced about 2 months ago that she didn't love me anymore and has witheld any & all affection since then. We have no physical contact anymore and I am at the other side of the house. I have suggested Counseling and she refuses. We work together in a home based business.
My question is should I stay in our rented house and file for divorce or should I leave and get a another rented home, restart my life and divorce later?
Money is tight and I cannot afford to do both. I saw an Attorney a couple of weeks ago who quoted me $2500 for a 'Florida contested divorce'. Rent + security deposit on another house is going to be about $2000.00.
I think she is happy for me to remain in the house as I pay the rent and what we earn from our business covers all the other bills.
Anyone got suggestions.
I know both paths are hard, but which one is more logical?


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

At least you have a choice. In my state you must live in separate residences for 1 year before you can be granted a divorce. So, pick the path that will be the best for you and your kids.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Did you get anything besides a price from your lawyer? So you understand your likely financial situation post divorce? Why do you continue paying the rent? Does she cover other expenses?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And as far as what to do... Being stuck in the house with someone you're divorcing doesn't sound like any fun at all. Get out now, if you can. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

In reply some of the points raised. 

The thing that most sucked when I went to see the lawyer is how Florida is a 'No-Fault' state. That means the law doesn't care what caused the marriage breakdown, it is only interested in a fair and equatable distribution of assets from the marriage and that any minors are taken care of. So in terms of infidelity, you may as well 'get hung for sheep as a lamb'. Go big the law seems to advocate.

Moving on. The lawyer explained that we would need to build up an asset inventory and that any assets acquired during the marriage are shared out as equally as possible. Whilst my pension built up before we got married is secure as an 'asset', the income from it is not and would be taken into account in the earnings equation. 

At 63, my employability is limited to say the least, so my pension income is important to me. In addition I have developed a small consultancy business which brings in maybe $10,000 pa to me, as it's my efforts. The lawyer told me she would be able to get 50% of that asset. Our main business, which is home based provides the bulk of our income and is maybe around $30K-$40K pa. Some house bills are paid as business bills, so it gets a little muddy. Again, she would get 50% of the assets, which are a couple of desks and a 2 pcs, etc.

I asked the lawyer if it would be OK for us to create 2 branches of the business, so we could each run a branch. He said the judge would be unlikely to go for that. So either the business folds or 1 buys the other out. Neither of us have any cash laying around. Our biggest assets are 2 cars and an old boat I rebuilt. i have tried to sell it, but without luck. Other than that, it's all mainly furniture, china, TV's, etc. 

I personally don't want anything that has 'US' stamped on it. I would like a blank canvas fresh start if we split, with no reminders. Leaving her with a fully kitted out house would also mean continuity and & stability for our 15 year old who is still at home. I would hope a judge would take that into account. I also said to the lawyer, if I leave, I move into an empty house and have to start again and could not afford to give her any money. I pointed out that surely it was right & proper that I be given the right to provide a comfortable home for my sons as their father in the same way she has a comfortable home for her sons. His answer was you are dead right and the judge would go along with that. That may limit what she gets from me.

As for child support, the 18 year old is out of scope, but as he's at college, I would see it more as a moral responsibility as his father rather than a legal obligation (which it is not). The 15 year old still needs help from me, but the amount is based on my ability to pay based on my earnings and outgoings (see comments about building up my new home). 

As for employibility, as mentioned earlier I am 63, but still manage to earn a crust. My wife is 49 and apart from working in the home based business spends her time on community issues where live, volunteering her time. She has said one of the issues is lack of money and she is fed up of bouncing along on the bottom. Suffice it to say, she states she looks for jobs, but hasn't found anything. She has been making this statement for the past 12 years!!

She pissed me off royally last week, when she announced that she had won a contract for doing some specific marketing/branding work. I initially praised her till she said who the company was. The company was one of my customers (we split our business with our own client base, like in most sales situations). She told me she had had several meetings with them and that day they had given her the contract. I told her I was pleased what she had achieved, but disappointed that she had kept me totally in the dark about what she was doing and with whom. There is little I can do about this, other than if a divorce comes along 'her new business' becomes a 50% split with me and her income from it, will only go toward lessening any contribution I may have to make to her/my son. So there may be a bright side to that. it still pissed me off though as yet another 'behind my back' action of hers.

When I found out about her 'relationship' I began a journal where I recorded where she went and also used it to express my raw emotions to get it off my chest. She found this journal and has continued to castigate me for my remarks about her, telling me I am a Jekyll & Hyde. My answer has been that had she not had this 'relationship', there would have been no need for the journal. I also have a couple of email from the man's wife about her and voice mails she left for him. I also managed to get texts from her phone one time to him and whilst a collection of initials, they easily told me that she had 'strong' feelings for him. Whether of not their relationship ended up sexual, I have no proof, other than assumptions as to where their relationship was headed. 

She told me a while back that she no longer has any contact with him, yet recently I discovered an initial against a date in her diary for this year. The initial is his and I do know that the date it is against is his birthday. I also found a birthday card that I believe she has got for him, but as yet it is not filled in. I am also led to believe the guy moved addresses after she supposedly stopped contact, yet this card is for him, it proves she is still in contact with him as she obviously knows his address. 

When she first announced to me she didn't love me, I was shocked. She then came back and said she loved me, but just not as a wife should? I said this to the lawyer guy and he was equally confused by her statement. She appears to be sitting on the fence post her announcement and I am not sure if she is simply doing nothing in the hope that I will start the divorce, then she can paint me as the bad guy.

Face to face conversations have invariably ended in rows, so I began writing letters to her and keeping them as unemotional as possible. One of her replies was that she said she has been 'unhappy for years'. My response to her on that statement, was that it had me re-evaluating our whole marriage of 24 years as when she started to be unhappy. She never came back to me on it, but I found her pencil comments on my letter and she simply made the remark 'stupid comment'.

The diary birthday entry, the new business dealings with my customers are all yet more lies and betrayal on her part toward me and the legal system does nothing to punish her for this in a divorce. It sucks big time.

Sorry for this diatribe, it is good nonetheless to share these feelings of shock, anger, despair, etc.

Until my financial situation improves, I still have only the money to do 1 of 2 things, either divorce and stay or move out and then divorce. The problem with the latter is that my main income is our joint home based business. If I no longer live in that home, I cannot work in that business.

As the lawyer said... if I won the lottery now, she'd get 50%. If I file for divorce and win the lottery the day after, she gets nothing. File or Leave, File or Leave! Jeez!!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

You got the ILYBINILWY, because she is in some sort of affair. Your problem is that you are close to retirement age which entitles her to a huge portion of what she would be entitled to if your marriage was working regardless of the fact that you would divorce. So you are pretty much disarmed of your power to bust it up her affair using financial leverage or the threat of her losing your provisions.

I see your dilemma, and suggest further legal consultation, surely some attorney has more experience dealing with retirement age divorcees and pensions etc.

Meanwhile, I'd make it as unpleasant as possible for her to want to remain in the home, claim your own space within and be particularly difficult. fart in her general direction if you know what I mean.

In my province, you don't need to divorce to be separated, many people only seek out the D when they choose to remarry, however a legal separation signed off by the courts follow the same kind of no-fault rulings your florida divorce would, and it still costs a couple grand to have lawyers draft everything up and file it with the court. Sounds like you don't need the divorce you just want your independence without having to sacrifice an arm and a leg (especially when its her actions that have cost you them).


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

File and stay.only pay the bills you legal have to. save as much cash as you can for emergency.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

There was some extensive planning on her part. This exit strategy was

planned. The money aspect says stay but...my X and I had the "in house"

separation. It was not fun and I left halfway through the 60 day wait.

Do you want to blow up her EA / PA or are you 110% through?

This case I read about was a long time ago and it occurred in the 1980's

but a spouse who had a large retirement savings set up an "account"

in the child's name and to be dispersed xx each year after the child

turned xx years old.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

The Pension is a UK pension and is an employers pension. There is no 'resale or transfer value' as such because it can't be liquidated like a US 401K. My understanding is that a pension built up and finalized BEFORE marriage is not and never will be hers. My lawyer said that as an 'asset' it is a pre-marriage asset and protected. What is NOT protected is the income from it. I have used that to pay the rent on our home, but I have already told her that if I have to leave, then I have to start from scratch and have to look out for #1. That pension money would be spent on my rent not on hers. The lawyer told me that in building up the asset inventory, they look at income into the home and who earns it. The biggest chunk is from our joint home based business. If a lawyer wanted to determine who is the largest earner in that business, it is easy by simply looking at customer invoices and who 's customers they are.

Just as an update from the other day. Since her recent and great pronouncement about not loving me, getting her to come out with what she wants next is like drawing teeth. She seems incapable of giving a straight Yes or No to most of my questions. I texted her yesterday (so as to keep from having a face to face and possible argument) and asked her if she wanted to try a reconciliation. I said a simple Yes or No will suffice. She didn't reply and wasn't sure she'd got it. Today I texted her and asked if she got the text from yesterday. She replied that she had and was not prepared to answer in a text. She then said not sure why you u want an answer in text. I'm driving and just had to pull over to text back. Do u want something in writing, is that it?
As you can see I ask her for straight black & white answers and can't get them. When I ask for answers like today, she gets all defensive and adversarial and questions why I am asking in the first place!
Even my lawyer guy said ask her straightforward questions and expect straightforward and adult answers to questions about the future of your marriage. Yet she seems incapable of doing that. Why?

As for the ILYBINILWY reply comment, yes I do wonder whether this guy is still around after all this time. As mentioned earlier, I have found a birthday card, which seems to be for him (don't know of anyone else it could be for) It is not a romancy type card, simply one that says thank you for being an inspiration and a special person, blah, blah and she has his initial written against his birthday in her desk diary. I am putting 2 and 2 together here. 

If that's the case, why all the dishonesty? Why is the truth so difficult for her to spit out? It's Florida for God's sake, it's a no-fault. She could admit she was having it off with the whole street and it would not make one hair of a difference to a divorce. That's the bit I don't understand.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you can not get a straight answer out of her....

make the decision for her....drop the D. It may "wake her up"

filing for D does not mean you have to go through with it.

When people show you who they are, believe them.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

She may not be able to give you a straight answer because of cognitive dissonance (my favorite term to use lately)

Also, it could be something or someone other than this old flame of hers, could be the appeal of being single - she has shown lack of boundaries in the past, so she may simply be acting outside of those boundaries which is causing her seeming lack of ability to be straight.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

Yesterday was a difficult day indeed, but at least there was an outcome - sorta.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I'd texted her about trying reconciliation and that she wouldn't give me an answer by text. So she comes home late afternoon and after eating and washing up, she's at the kitchen counter making the sons sandwiches for Thursday. He's playing on his XBox with his headphones on so can't really hear us.

I ask her can she now give me an answer. Her reply was 'I thought I already had'? I said No I asked about counseling and you said No. This is reconciliation with no 3rd parties, just the 2 of us. She still wouldn't give me a straight Yes/No but always prefers to go round the houses (that frustrates me and maybe why she does it..to wind me up?). Anyway she gave me her convoluted answer which I translated for her into a No you don't. My reply then was that's fine, at least I know where we stand now and I have done everything possible here.

I then pointed out to her that as a consequence I would be moving out asap as staying just wouldn't work. She has this view that somehow 2 people in our situation can quite happily live in the same house, but not be as one. I told her it would not work, period and would not be fair on our son who would have to live with a M&D who were no longer together and for whom it didn't take much to cause friction. Her response was he's OK about it all??

I asked her if she'd actually spoken to him properly about us. I had recently, in the car and he was crying his eyes out and just wants the 2 of to be together as a M&D & as a H&W. I also told her that he'd spoken with his older bro (at College) about us and they too thought it was crazy that we were splitting up and thus will end up with households x 2. All she appeared to see was the cost. I told her that take away the love in marriage and you are left with a financial arrangement and I didn't sign up for that. So staying together in the same house for cost saving is a non-starter for me (IMHO it can't possibly work). I then told her that I wasn't moving immediately and that I had to find somewhere. Rents in our area are going to be around $900-$1000 per month plus security deposit. I could file for Divorce or I could move out, but I couldn't do both to begin with. I told her that I'd seen an Attorney (saw her eyes roll at this) and how he'd said his initial fee was $2500.00 (covers 8 hrs) plus $225.00 per hr thereafter. I told her what I'd been told about the Florida no-fault law and that all assets would be split fairly & equally usually 50/50 by the court. I also told her the Attorney had said not to get involved in any new purchases or investments. The cogs really moved then and she blurted out that her 'new contract' with a customer of mine for marketing/branding would mean she would have to give 50% of her frigging money (her words!). She turned and fled into the bedroom.

I waited a short while and then went in. She was lying on the bed in absolute tears. I believe for the first time reality was beginning to set in. I have told her from what I have read that the emotional and financial pain begins when you separate and is far greater than emotional/financial pain prior (she has always moaned about bumping along on the bottom money wise). I have no real wish to turn any screws in our situation and told her that I had no wish to take half of what she had worked for, in the same way that my small business fell into the same category (subtle tit for tat). I simply told her that this was how the law was framed and we were subject to in a divorce. She then dumbfounded me by saying 'how she wished she would have taken the job they offered her, instead of agreeing to a contract which gave her more flexibility with my son' (her words) She has been job hunting for 12 years now and never found a job suitable?? She did secure a Substitute Teacher post some years ago though. It costs us nearly $300 for her drug test (subs have to pay their own cost) plus another $300 to get her UK academic exam certificates accredited for the US. She worked exactly 4 separate days as a Sub, turned down loads of days as they were 'not local enough'. I digress. She had floored me last week by announcing this new business venture of hers, which she had never spoken to me about and then hit me again when she told me her first contract was with one of my customers in our shared business and had met them several times and kept me totally in the dark about it all. Now she was flooring me again, by telling me she'd passed on a paid job. (So much for bouncing along on the bottom?) The real reason she passed on the job IMHO and chose to sub-contract, is it allows her freedom during the day to play social butterfly with anything and everything that will get her name in the papers or Thanks you are such a wonderful person on Facebook. I have lacked in my support for what she does, but I have said countless times that this has to be in balance with family and family needs. Volunteering, no matter how noble does NOT pay the bills.

She began to tell me what prompted her make her feel the way she felt about me. She quoted us losing our house to foreclosure in 2008. I was working my butt off then. We had a predator lender who was charging 13% on a 10 year mortgage and would not extend the term nor reduce the rate. At the same time our income from our small business fell by 78% as the US went into the Great Recession. We fought back and hired an Attorney whom we paid out our only money of just $5000, only to be scammed as he ended up in jail on a DUI manslaughter charge and his employees emptied the bank accounts and did nothing on our defense. We lost everything on that. With no money and little time, I was the one who did the rounds of the Attorney's seeking answers to our predicament. The solution was personal bankruptcy, which we took. We still lost the house, but no-one could chase after us post the bankruptcy. The day we attended the court to formally lose our home since 2000 was the day of our wedding anniversary!!

I responded to this by asking 'so you blame me for us losing the house, is that it?. She said she had felt a failure to her kids, etc. I replied, but that was one of life's big road humps, which we had to face together and that both of tried our best to avoid. Why use it as an excuse to fall out of love? For me I told her it was her 'relationship' with the married man. She always comes back about what do you think we did? I explained to her that even the Attorney I saw said the relationship, sexual or non-sexual was still within the legal definition of an affair. I repeated that I was prepared to draw a line in the sand and move forward, but one thing always upset me what that she never apologized for what she did or showed remorse. She actually admitted last night that what she did was wrong. She commented that she did it because I didn't support her in what she did and didn't give her the +ve encouragements she obviously wanted and desired. I admitted to her that I always supported her whatever she did. My favorite word has always been Yes. Hers has always been NO.

That didn't last long and she came back at me about the journal I began to keep after I found out about her relationship. Initially it was just keeping tabs on her movements, but became my personal and emotional vent for what I was feeling. She had snooped on my PC, found the file and read it. She said I was a Jekyll and Hyde character in saying one thing to her face, but writing something else down. I have become horse explaining the vent and how that was raw emotion and nothing more, just like you say thing in an argument that you don't really mean. I am not proud of some of the things I wrote down, but the damndest remark was calling her a beach one time. By the same token, I have never tackled her on the texts I found on her phone where she is using lots of LY and I am fighting the urge, etc. I have kept that bottled up and likely that's the way it will stay, but it has shown for me that she has been a good liar and deceiver in the past and with the revelations about her new business and seeing my customers, all the while keeping me in the dark, little has changed in the deceipt department.

We moved onto the D word and that point I lost I am afraid and buckled emotionally as it so upsets me to stare at what has become of 24 years of marriage and how it will affect our two sons. She is of the opinion they will not be scarred and will get over it. My belief is that divorce leaves a thumbprint on everyone affected and no-one really knows for sure how individuals are affected longer term. After regaining my composure somewhat, we talked about building up friends and I pointed out that I only have jsy a few friends, that one has just gone through an ugly divorce, remarried and is in the honeymoon/party all the time period. My other 2 friends are dealing with their own hell, as the husband is battling Pancreatic Cancer and knowing he has between 18months to 5 years to live (pancreatic Cancer is a mean B...d), they have decided to sell up and move back to their native Holland where his medical treatment will be free throughout. By contrast her 'friends' tend to be ones she has developed through her social butterfly route and I personally would call them acquaintances rather than friends. Anyhow at this point she looked at me said 'is this feel sorry for **** week? That so pissed me off and I stomped out the room and we ignored one another for the rest of the evening. My thoughts were..and this woman wants us to live under the same roof??

Today has been a quiet and peaceful day, so far. That is because she is out for the day. It is her Birthday today. She is 49 and I am 63 (I'm also beginning to realize that her actions may also be about trading me in for a newer model!). As I walked into the kitchen at 8.00am, she had bags in her hands and said she was going out all day and would work in Starbucks/Panera Bread on her laptop. For birthdays, we normally have a birthday meal and I told her that my head was all over the place and that I may take myself out ealry evening after picking my son up from school at 7.00pm. Meanwhile, she is social butterflying from 4.00 through to 7.00pm also and said because of that it was a normal meal but with Cake. The jury is out on whether I should take my leave and let the 2 of them eat together or simply zip my mouth, keep my emotions in check and eat the food.

All in all, our marriage appears dead in its tracks. I remarked yesterday that my moving out might help with a reconciliation, but qualified it by saying pigs might fly.

We have to renew our lease on our rental home at the end of the month. I had said to the Attorney I didn't really want my name on it again. His reply was if you sign it, then leave and she defaults, you'll be liable. If you don't sign, then she may say Go. I raised this with her yesterday and lo and behold she didn't object to my name coming off the lease and just hers. I have said I will continue paying the rent as I normally do until I leave and then we are in new territory.

I have found a Para-Legal who does divorces including those with kids. It is elf-representation, but they do all the paperwork and hand hold. Their cost is less than $1000.00 compared to minimum 2½ times that of an Attorney. When emotions have settled I may well speak with her about how we may be able to sort everything out so that we agree on everything (for the courts benefit) and thus it becomes an uncontested divorce, is quicker, easier and less hassle. So long as she and me can agree to that course of action, it may be the emotional/financial saviour for both of us. If she wants to get vindictive, then it's back to an Attorney and money spend needlessly on both sides.

We will see. Thank you to everyone who takes the time and trouble to read these 'rambling'. It is a hard path to walk down and I get upset just putting this down. As they say a problem shared is a problem halved. All comments and advice are welcome.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

Today's update...

My wife is a Rotarian and her local President called me a couple of weeks ago and mumbled about needing to speak confidentially to me? He was supposed to call me back but never did. One week later he calls me and says they are organizing a surprise party for her on the 23rd (her birthday) to honor her contribution to Rotary and I need to somehow get her to this restaurant for 7.15!

It is not yet public knowledge that we are going to separate and I know if I'd said to her get your glad rags I'm taking you out for a surprise, she would have refused. Hell, she took herself off all day yesterday (her birthday anyway) to be away from me. After spending the whole day (on her own?), she was then attending and speaking at a local Ribbon Cutting till 7.00pm. I was already down to pick up my son from school music practice at 6.30. He never gets out on time and it is usually between 6.45 & 7.00 when he appears, then we have a 30 mile drive home. I tactfully as best as I could said to the guy, I can't help on this and he would be better of using one of the other members she is pals with to ruse her into getting her down to the restaurant. He said OK and that's how it was left. Son and I get home at 7.30ish and she is on the phone with this pal of hers who is telling her that she is supposed to be at this surprise birthday party and they are all sat waiting for her. The surprise is no longer a surprise! She is quite upset and in tears (because of what they are doing) and says to me 'that I am supposed to taking her there'? Err No I'm not. I explain this president guy who is known for doing/planning things without involving others, had phoned me up 2 weeks ago and I'd said I couldn't do it and he should use this other lady as the ruse. That is how it was left. The guy had approached the lady who told him she couldn't help as her husband was in hospital. My son later told me this dipstick guy had contacted him via Facebook to 'friend him' to try ask for his help!! WTF! So my wife looks at me and it is clear from her expression that once again I am the bad guy and somehow I've done this deliberately. I told my wife I wouldn't go, because of what had gone on this week, so she took off with our son in tow (she shouts, he marches). I was so pissed at this dipstick guy, who had clearly made all the arrangements for this surprise party yet didn't involve me or ask for my input at the planning stage. he simply gave me a this is what I've organised, just be there. I have no clue what he would have done had me and her been on great terms and I had arranged a romantic birthday evening as a surprise myself. 
Class Act on his part and I am in 2 minds whether to send him a snotty email telling him what issues/friction he caused at home because of dictatorial style of planning this event. Should I or shouldn't I?

Found out something really interesting this morning!. She was out and I had a quick look at some papers she'd left on her desk. In the pile was a folder with details of her 'new' marketing/branding contract she has recently blindsided me about. It's explained in earlier posts, but basically she has met with one of my customers without my knowledge, discussed with them a marketing campaign for them under a new business she is starting. She admitted the other night they first of all offered her a FT job, but she turned it down. She has done all of this completely behind my back has said this 'new business' has been in the planning stage for nearly a year. It looks to me like this contract proposal has been in the works for a couple of months. In going through the paperwork, it showed how much she will get paid and it's $54,000 over 12 months at $4500 per month!! My eyes did a double take.

She has given one of her reasons for wanting to split as being 'fed up of bouncing along on the bottom moneywise'. It is now becoming clear to me that, with this contract in the bag, she will suddenly have so much more than we ever earned in a year and she wants to run with it!! Any money I have earned has always been turned back into the general pot, and all my pension has paid for the house rent all this time. I have helped out paying household bills as well, yet when she earns good money, she wants to leave me and hang me out to dry.

Chuck 71, said in his post that her plan must have had some form of EXIT strategy built in. Seemingly it was this forthcoming contract. She made her pronouncement out of the blue about 2 months ago (I have been wracking my brains what happened 2 months ago for her to make this sudden pronouncement about us), and she obviously knew then her money situation wasthe going to change and for her it would be a good chance to be totally selfish and leave me with basically nothing.

That said, the silver lining for me in this development is that it will highlight that she has the financial income to be fully independent and will actually be earning far more than me. I think when it comes to legally reviewing incomes/assets and any financial support I thought I might have to give, things have changed big time.

I don't want to give her any clues that I know and I need for events to move on and for her to become contracted on this and her money from it to start flowing. She can't wriggle out of that then.

Comments welcome.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Sucks, but the surprise party is not your problem. Your STBXW has made it clear she's not going to even try to meet your needs and is done with the marriage, so let that one bounce easy.

As for your business, if you believe she's breached laws or agreements with you, take her to court if you must.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Her top priority is to run with all the money. Your top priority is xxxxxx

and NOT her. When one spouse wants to run with the money, they

have to show their hand early. Wait until she shows it...then call her

on it.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

Lon said:


> Sucks, but the surprise party is not your problem. Your STBXW has made it clear she's not going to even try to meet your needs and is done with the marriage, so let that one bounce easy.
> 
> As for your business, if you believe she's breached laws or agreements with you, take her to court if you must.



I don't know as she has breached any laws as such. Our joint business is a FL Corp, with 2 equal shareholders, me and her. My title is President and hers is VP. But in reality, as a mom & pop operation, titles and shares seem meaningless.

The new 'business' she had worked on behind my back is being promoted under the name of our joint corporation. When she first told me about it last week, my response was that I was pleased for her success, but terribly disappointed that she chose to do it without my knowledge and more so the fact the client was one of my customers. In sales these are things you just don't do - certainly if you have ethics.

My 2nd response to her was that she should establish a separate business, like I have done with mine, so that the corporation doesn't become a mud hole. My small consultancy is mine. I do all the work, I pay all the expanses and I get all the income. I would expect her to do the same with her new enterprise, but she hasn't. If she doesn't, then all this new income of hers will have to channel through the corp and as 50/50 shareholder I can spend it if I choose. I wouldn't but I could.

I have never believed that in a marriage the 2 people should be joined at the hip and it is healthy that they have their own interests, etc. Most couples have their own paying jobs and create a joint account where the household bills get paid. In that scenario, both have their own financial independence to a point. With us both working together for over 20 years, we have never had the individual financial independence. Certainly since we came to the US, every scrap of income has gone into the central pot to pay bills and if you needed something personal, you either asked or did without. In asking, I don't see it asking for permission, I have never denied her needs. I see it as a communication with the other person to illicit their agreement. Neither of us have bought big items with joint money. That said about 3 years ago, I received a lump sum when a pension commenced and I replaced the aging van we had with a slightly newer vehicle. My wife has little or no interest in things on 4 wheels, so I was left to sort that out. Problem is she always expresses an opinion AFTER the event. but that's who she is. My view is participate in the process or keep quiet. At the same time I treated myself on my personal wish list and bought an old boat which I restored for the family's use and pleasure OR so I thought. All I got was grief from her and in arguments, the 'boat' is always a stick she beats me with. Some guys may have taken up golf and spent more on the clubs, buts that's another analogy that would have been wasted on her. When she beats me over the lump sum, she conveniently forgets the other elements of spending that was was on the receiving end, but that's selective deafness for you. I try and take that on the chin.

All in all I am pretty peaved by her attitude over the money (or lack of) issue and how she has used it as a tool in her reasoning to split, yet now her income is to increase dramatically she I think has decided to use it as her EXIT card.... or so she thought. As said earlier, this extra money she thinks is all hers, may end up coming back to bite her in court. We'll see?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

So from her approach to the business partnership, you can infer that she is not going to play fair in your marriage either. Why would you stay in a partnership with someone like that (either a businesses one or a personal one)?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

any income generated by a company of two...is 50 / 50 shared by the

two unless documented otherwise. This holds true even after the D.

As it seems, the D will afflict you more than her. But the loss of $

will be what she feels pain from. If she loses her "security blanket"

she may seek to return to you and work on the M


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

stressed1951 said:


> As for child support, the 18 year old is out of scope, but as he's at college, I would see it more as a moral responsibility as his father rather than a legal obligation (which it is not). The 15 year old still needs help from me, but the amount is based on my ability to pay based on my earnings and outgoings (see comments about building up my new home).


You need to look into this more with the help of a lawyer for more direct knowledge of Florida Family Law. But, your statement doesn't strike as accurate.

In many states, you can be ordered to pay a portion of your child's college expenses. 

Child Support is NOT based on in/out. It is based on in. Just in. The court doesn't care if you live in a cardboard box. Percentage of in. Look up a FL state Child Support calculator to get an idea of factors and your cost.

That said, don't move out. It's a rental. You 'll move out eventually, most likely. But for now, until there is a court order, don't leave. It'll suck. Oh, it will suck. Get a digital voice recorder. Use it to protect yourself from a he said/she said issue. But be there for your son. After you've started the process, cut back expenses you can live without. Trim the cable package back to rabbit ears or the basic 12. Internet to a minimum package. You get the idea. Don't remove her or make any changes that would reduce insurances of any type without first consulting a lawyer. But she can go if she'd like. Son stays with you unless she gets a court order that says otherwise. Don't fall on your sword or roll over. Also, don't focus on the OM speculation. Be aware of it but it sounds thin at the moment and more distraction than value. 4 years ago is history and the court won't care about that. You've stayed. Amends have been made.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I would recommend copying all those documents and keep them in a safe place. You never know what she may try doing.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

Update.... Since my last post, I have again tried to build bridges with her. I have suggested counseling and she has rejected that. Last week I asked if she wanted the 2 of us to try at reconciliation. She didn't understand the difference between the 2, so I explained that it would just be the 2 of us with no 3rd party involved as with counseling. She rejected that. So I am well and truly at the very end of the road with trying to save things. I feel I have explored and suggested every avenue to save our marriage.

In the past 2 weeks I have suggested that we also make plans, effective Jan 1 , 2015, for our joint business dealings to change.

We have worked together in our own corporation for 14 years. She has indicated she would like to continue using the trading name as it is linked to her locally through the 'nothing a yard' volunteering work she does. My customers are further away and I don't have the same desire to hold onto the name as she does, so I am OK with that. I have suggested the corp is dissolved end of Dec. She sets up her own sole proprietorship in the same way that my small consultancy is a sole proprietorship. She takes the dba name and we each take our own customers to our respective sole proprietorships. That way, effective Jan 1, 2015 and a new tax year we work separately, earn our own money, which we can spend/save in our own way. Whilst I am at the house, we share common bills (though I have always paid the rent 100% with my pension). She seems to agree on that suggestion in principle, but getting her to focus and do something about achieving that is the same as her pronouncement. She utters the word but has no follow through. That said the things I can do are resign from the corp as an officer, hand in my shares, drop myself off the biz bank account and leave her to sort the end bits out if she doesn't pick up the slack.

One of the sticks she has beaten me with for the past 2 years (and has said it was one of multitude and ever changing reasons for stopping loving me) is my purchase of an old boat, which I spent my personal money doing up. She always made it clear she didn't agree with me spending my money on it and has 'knocked it' at every opportunity. It sits in storage unused. I have tried to sell it, but this week, out of the blue a guy phones me up and buys it. I got what I asked for. Additionally, I earned a nice little couple of grand from my small consultancy business. All in all, I managed to bring in about $6K this week to my personal funds. That now gives me the exit cash to find a rental home to move to and cover rent + deposit and something to help furnish the place. I just need to locate a place, which is easier said than done as rentals are getting harder to come by locally.

Then last night happened! At the evening meal, my wife said our eldest son who is at college was phoning later. She didn't say why and I had to ask. She said it's about academics and financials! Oh!? Later, she takes herself off into our home office to speak with our son. I am not invited into the conversation, even though there is a speaker phone in the office. This is also what happened when it was planning college. She cut me out the loop then. This was one of the issues I raised with her when going through the marriage ups/downs. I am convinced she is a control freak and she sees only a 'me', not an 'US'. She has thrown my comments about the situation by sying I should get involved? How can you when you are cut out of the loop? Anyway, she comes out over 1 hour later and says that he is 'academically overloaded'. She explains in college they are expected to take on x number of classes for their degree which can also involve private tutoring. He's doing music so has to have some private lessons. His tutors have said his level of overload is acceptable for what he is doing and that he can handle it. I do not pretend to understand this, but my first thought was cut back on classes. But I am told this is a no-no for his degree. 

She then says all this 'overload' comes at a cost and that is about $4K to $5K per semester on top of what we are already paying out!! She was huffing & puffing about the extra cost and I am thinking my extra money is that going to disappear on his tuition costs?

My view is that right in the middle of 'his' tuition crisis is 'our' own marriage crisis. Our crisis was precipitated by her making her grand announcement that she no longer loved me and not following it with she sees as 'next steps'. It has been left to me to plot a future route. I have told her several times that every action has a consequence and that us splitting would impact on us both financially and in the wider sense our 2 sons. We would have 2 homes and double costs. Yet she has rejected all suggestions of fixing the marriage and all she comes out with is that we can live happily in the same house (yet our lives are a tinderbox of emotions). It now appears that one of those crisis chickens is coming home to roost. 

She made a stupid (IMHO) remark that she didn't want our son calling it quits at the college and coming home (she can be a drama queen at times). As a parent I want to support him through college and we are doing it to an extent already. He has student loans and earns a little money from college campus work, but the wife's announcement about our marriage, her blanket rejection of everything to save the marriage is casting a huge dark shadow over everything at the moment. I don't think she any realization of what full financial implications of us splitting will be. I'm not 100% sure, though I think I have got a better handle on than hers. At the moment she gives the air of floating through life at the moment as if nothing has happened. I tell her I will not pretend anymore and will not play 'happy families' as if nothing has happened.
Right now I am going through a very big guilt issue as to what is the 'right' thing to do, for me and for my son.

Should I stick to my guns and use the money to get away to a new home or offer it up to help our son. Inside of me I want to get away, but it's the guilt of then of probably not being able to help our son as much as I would like, because I used that money to get away.
Help?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You shouldn't offer anything with regards to your money until you're a full participant in how it's spent. Grab your testicles, and start taking ownership of your situation. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw, no offense intended...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Since it appears that SHE is the one who is done with the marriage, then SHE should be the one to get out. Stay put and file.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

So late this morning she returns from a meeting. She takes a call from my son's college. She leaves the room to deal with it, leaving me in this office out of earshot. Yet again, she is cutting me out of the loop. After the call ended, she was huffing & puffing about it is likely we will be facing an extra $8 to $10K per year for his college costs.

My response to her was that she needs to bear in mind the costs associated with 'us' coming to an end as well and the impact that will have on any ability to handle his increased college costs. She looks at me like I have 2 heads. I explain to her (yet again) I cannot live in the present situation under the one room and I will be looking for a rental. I slept on the office floor when my son came home from college and took up his old room which I'm using. He comes back for Thanksgiving and this will be repeated. At Christmas he's home for over 3 weeks and I tell her I cannot sleep on the floor for 3 weeks. She says I can have 'our' bed and she will sleep elsewhere in the house. She thinks this is perfectly acceptable in the long term???? She comes back at (yet again) with we can live in the same house fine, lots do. I explain that she has made her decision about she no longer recognizes and 'us' and I am reacting to it by moving out and moving on. Additionally, our relationship is like a tinderbix and it does not take much to set it off. I find out this week she is going to her friends house Saturday night for a girls night and won't be home till Sunday. I only found this out as she was telling her parents on the phone what she was doing and I was in the same room so overheard the conversation. She has not said anything to my face about this night out. That has pissed me off this week. I just feel she is using me as a doormat and bank roll at the moment.

Her next comment is 'so if agree to counseling, you'll stay and we can help the lad'. I reply No, I think we are past that point, highlighting that she has rejected every attempt by me in past weeks (counseling & reconciliation) to try and fix things. She then makes the comment that it is my choice to leave and that it will hurt the sons. I reply by saying 'don't hit me with that as I am not the person who made the announcement in the first place'.

I have told her time and time again, that by splitting, we will have double everything and that will impact on everybody financially and emotionally. She seems to have selective deafness in hearing and taking in that stark reality.

I tried not to let it fall into an argument, but she walked out without saying anything to me. Freezing me out has always been her way of dealing with me.

I am so angry right now, that she has created this whole situation by her announcement and this is dominoing into our eldest son's education. I have said to her we have several solutions to the college costs; he cuts back classes and hence costs don't increase as much, he maybe considers a college change next year to one that will give him what he wants at a cost that is affordable; Mum & Dad try and help as best they can, but that may not cover the total bill. The latter is going to be severely impacted when I move out.

I am trying and have been trying to keep calm and collected throughout this whole sorry situation, but I am really at my wits end. I feel that at every turning point I come out of this the villain of the piece and feel so trapped in this house with her as well. 3 weeks ago or thereabouts I would have given anything to fix 'us', but I feel I have a side of recently that shows me that 'we' are beyond fixing.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why aren't you talking to the college directly to find out the situation? Why are you trusting her to accurately and honestly inform you as to why the increased costs are required?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

PBear said:


> Why aren't you talking to the college directly to find out the situation? Why are you trusting her to accurately and honestly inform you as to why the increased costs are required?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suppose there is nothing to stop me doing that. However, it would highlight to the College that perhaps the LH doesn't know what the RH is doing at our end.
She has taken the reins on my son's college and I have tried to get involved, but she does do a good job at keeping me out the loop, intentionally or otherwise. She said to me last week I should get engaged with my son's college education and I do to the extent I can and able to do. But in the planning stages, when she would cocoon herself with him in his bedroom behind closed doors, its' difficult barging in without causing a scene. I tried dealing with that issue with her as diplomatically as I could, but still she persists with the control freak thing. Part of it is a Mom nurturing thing, but i know part of it is her who basically likes to be in charge. She is one of these 'it's her way or no way' types. Sometimes you go with the flow on it, sometimes you say NO.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

your son.......take over! have a heart to heart with him. your W is doing 

what you allow her to. get your nads from her purse, re-attach them and

for good measure, pitch her purse in the lake. If she can screw you

financially...count on her trying to do it. Get your ducks in a row.

She will respect you when..... you put your foot down.


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## stressed1951 (Jan 12, 2010)

So here's a quick weeks update. Little seems to be happening on the College extra cost front, we are waiting for feedback from them. I overheard my wife talking to her parents (in the UK) on Monday of last week. She is telling them she is going out with a girlfriend of hers and she is staying over at hers on the Saturday night! Despite still being married, my wife has chosen not to tell me anything about this. I learn it only by overhearing. I mention this night to my 15 year old son and he knows and she's told him. Yet again this woman is showing her true colors of cutting me out of the loop altogether as she has done so many times in the past. So I say to him, well it's just you and me, do you fancy the cinema and a meal out. He's up for it! Then on Friday I get told by my son that we are NOT going out Saturday night as Mom's evening has been cancelled by her GF as she has to do some stuff for her job. Hmm?? But I roll with that. Ity also highlights something I have noticed for a long while, that the kids won't go against her wishes and have always sought approval from her (never me) before doing something. Is that being scared of what she would say or do or what?

On that same Friday, the Property Mgr for our home calls her and says can she contact him Monday about the lease. the lease expired end October. Some weeks ago, when I told her I'd seen an Attorney for basic advice I was told to avoid signing any lease, if I wouldn't be staying for that period of time. I explained this to her. Yet yesterday when she speaks to the Prop Mgr and he says your husband has indicated he doesn't want to sign the lease, she comes off the phone at me with why didn't you tell me you wouldn't sign the lease??? Has she got selective deafness or what? She then says, she had better get some legal advice!

Later in the day I talk to the Prop Mgr about where he's at at finding me another house. We get onto the lease issue and her signing it. I explain things as openly and honestly as is possible and he says he can set the lease up in her name and an addendum can be added, if required, if we get back together again and I return to the house. I explain all this to her, when she arrives home mid evening after yet another of her interminable meetings and tell her I'd spoken with the Prop Mgr and what he'd said about the lease. She then blows at me and says she told him she'd get back to him on it! OK, so I am in the wrong yet again. I often tell her that I can do no right for doing wrong in her eyes! 

I feel done in trying to help this woman. Yet yesterday when we talking about this situation I remind her that we are staring at double costs on most everything and she comes back that it is my choice to leave! So it's my fault again! I tell her that we are not roomies and we are not dorm buddies we are in a marriage. She is the one who has made the pronouncement that she no longer loves me (in her words - as a wife should love her husband), so effectively she is the one who has quit the marriage. I point out that all I am doing now is reacting to her pronouncement and her refusal to do counseling or try reconciliation and that I am moving on. I think she is in denial over the cost that she is looking at. I honestly feel that she thinks that she has cleared her mind by saying she no longer loves me, that we can live at opposite ends of the house and still live happily ever after. I really don't know where she has got her advice from, but it is pure Mickey Mouse.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

she wants the D and wants you to pay for it. she is squatting in the Victim Chair,

spewing out lies so many times, she has started to believe them.

Start packing things up... may shock her into reality. Get a DIY

divorce printed off (in all honesty, with all your assets, this wouldn't work) 

and fill out your part and leave the papers on the kitchen table with a pen.

I promise you will get a reaction


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