# What is the difference between a sexless marriage and a long term friendship?



## solothethinker (Jul 22, 2010)

I ask myself this question over and over again...

My husband and I split up recently and the main reason being that our sexlife just did not work. Actually it has never been a super fit, but approximately 1 year into our relationship it started to deteriorate rapidly. In the end, it was quickies, lights off, under the duve etc.

I started to ask myself what the difference between our relationship and a long term friendship was. Despite rarely living together with a long term friend, I could see no difference at all. I have very good male friends and my friendship with them was like a "younger", and especially in the end less tense, version of the relationship that I had with my husband.

My husband have always connected at a deeper level. We could discuss most things openly and there was little jealousy between us. I have always thought our relationship quite healthy. If it was not for the sex issue.

We are both sexual people, perhaps me a tad more than him and most other people. The intimacy that sex brings to a relationship cannot be replaced by talking. I simply would not know what ancient part of my nervous system to speak to and what language to use 

We are separated now, after 7 years of living together. We still love each other and it was a mutual agreement to go separate ways, but I was the one who initiated the split. We are very good friends and still speak and spend time together. Sometimes there is attraction, but none of us would go any further than a hug at the most now.

I do not have the room to explain all the thinking and emotional searching that I have done, but everybody in hear probably knows that when you are together for many years you don't just split up unless something is making one or both parts fundamentally unhappy. Years of thinking and analyzing and feeling has left me with the following conlusion:

A marriage must first and foremost be a sexual relationship.

It is really just this question that I would like to post to the members of this forum. And I am really interested in your answers.
I did feel it necessary to write a bit about my history. The issues of sex in a relationship is to me very interesting both on a perosnal level but alson in my attempt to understand people more fully.

I wonder how other members of this forum feel about my conclusion? Did you come to another one? Do you agree and if yes, then why?

Would love to hear more. Setting my emotional attachment to the questions aside, I do find this question of high relevance when asking ourselves why we choose the partners that we do. And why we marry some, keep others as lovers and some we befriend.

Best regards,
Solo


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## Chet8625 (Jul 13, 2010)

Here's my take on it...

I don't think sex needs to be part of a marriage. Obviously older married couples who no longer have sex remain in a committed marriage and are soul mates and friends.

However, I think it is human nature to be sexual and when you are in a committed, monogamous marriage/relationship, there has to be sexual interest on both parties behalf.

If this balance is completely out of whack (one partner wants it 5 times a week, the other wants it once a year), you are disregarding that natural sexual need.

Could the sexual partner fulfill their needs elsewhere in a committed relationship? Sure. I have known married couples where one spouse has given up on sex and knows the other is getting sex outside the marriage and accepts that.

When the sexual need of the other spouse is taken off the table (satisfied), why couldn't the married relationship continue?

But sex is only part of it. Would you stay in a marriage where you had sex nightly but couldn't stand your spouse? probably not. There has to be some sort of friendship there.


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## crushedsoul (Jul 13, 2010)

I too am in almost the same situation, its been over 18 months with no sex and my wife and I werent' really a good fit at the start either. We have been together 18 years and our sex life is gone. I am very romantic and affectionate, and I decided to give up trying...that was 18 months ago. We are still together, but it is like best freinds living together. I couldn't take it anymore and I asked her if she was fooling around, and I asked her in a nice way...she said she was insulted by the question....then I told her I had to ask, I mean you haven't even tried to kiss me in 18 months. I got no response to that. I am at a loss. I really am. 
I am sorry I didn't give you any helpful advise, I don't know what to do either. I am comforted knowing I am not alone.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

the difference is when you are married and not getting your sexual needs fulfilled, you are basically trapped by the non sexual partner and the resentment builds. obviously some people deal with it by getting it somewhere else but thats usually after many years of suffering (as you describe).

ive never wanted to boff one of my friends


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## gerrypony (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, a marriage is first and foremost a sexual relationship. I've been in a sexless marriage for 2 years from the day of the wedding. Yeah we occasionally do it, but you can count that on your fingers. My husband is 45 and seems to have exhausted all his sexual energy on his previous girlfriends, and now has nothing for me. We're pretty much room mates, and I feel we simply don't have a normal marriage. Forget the physical need ... what about the emotional need that only sex can fulfill? The closeness, intimacy, safety, and feeling that you are loved?

It will never change for us, I know that now. He's just not interested in sex, and it will get worse as he gets older. Sorry if I sound too depressing, but I'm just so lost.


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## stalemate (May 13, 2010)

I am struggling with the same issue. We are now in marriage counseling and it is making the issue even more clear to me. We are extremely compatable as friends but there is just no sexual attraction.

From the beginning the sex was not very good or very frequent but in recent years it has become non-existant. I don't want to live the rest of my life this way but it is hard to pull the plug on the rest of our relationship that works pretty well.

Any advice on how to handle this situation is appreciated.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Describes my past also. hopwever there were a lot of other issues in my marriage to the poibt where I was ready to ask for a divorce.

You might think that the lack of sex was a result of all these other issues but it wasn't in the beginning. We had a good relationship and the sex waned before the relationship hit the rocks (maybe because of it).

It wasn't until I had an affair and the subsequent counseling after that we resumed a very active sexual life. One might say that she got interested just so I wouldn't go elsewhere. I would like to think she enjoys the sex and no, I wouldn't go elsewhere while I'm stlll married.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Usually the regulars here are in this situation. The one poster above who said he asked his wife is she was fooling around - that was me. . .and she got insulted. Like. . .how dare I even suggest if we weren't intimate that she may be getting sex somewhere else?

Like I was pulling it out of my derriere.

Anyway, to answer your question, I agree with you - a marriage should be sexual. There are exceptions. . .the Christopher Reeve exception and so forth but not while you are young and able.

You know, this discussion reminds me of discussions I have had/or watched at a Catholic forum was frequented awhile back when I was exploring my lost faith. Catholics are an interesting bunch - totally asexual until marriage and then it's very sexual is the philosophy. (one could question their motives - to produce more Catholics, lol).

Anyway, more to this discussion, the interesting thing was a lot of Catholic apologists noted that if you ARE NOT a sexual person, then you should NOT be called to marriage. They see marriage as almost a "calling" rather than something you naturally progress towards and are expected to do when you reach your reproductive years.

But I think a lot of people go into it for selfish reasons:

1. They want a family/kids (without the sex)
2. They want a surrogate father/mother, someone to be a sugar-daddy or another mom to cook and clean.
3. They think they can work out these homosexual feelings.

And so on and so on - probably dozens I am not thinking of.

In the end, I am resigned to accept what the Catholics generally say about marriage - 

For it to be valid, it must be in a state of consummation.

If any partner isn't willing to commit to that, than no, they shouldn't be married and perhaps they are called to something else.

And here's where it gets controversial - To me the consummation is more important than the friendship.

I don't beleive married partners, while they have to be sex partners, should have to be Best Buds. I think that's too high of a standard that a lot of women (and some men) put on a marriage. Don't get me wrong - it's good if you are best friends but I think the wife should have a best friend and the man should have a best friend and they are husband and wife, not best friends.

That means they steward the home together, raise the kids together, support each other, and have sexual relations. They are the first one involved in a death or illness or any major event. 

But that doesn't mean they are joined at the hip.

(except during sex  )

That doesn't mean that the husband has to know every single emotional thing about his wife and he has to be always the first one she comes to.

I think that is a relatively modern view of marriage. My grandparents weren't "best friends" yet they had a loving marriage.

I am not sure I am expressing myself exactly what I mean to say.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

I think that the question of an affair when your spouse isn't interested is interesting. My husband never asked me, outright, but when he would travel he would intentionally be vague about when he was coming home and he would sometimes show up hours or even a day before I was expecting him. I laughed, cynically, with my BFF on the phone about it. He was expecting to "catch me" doing somthing, or with someone. 

The sad irony of the matter is that his controlling personality has made it so that I can't wait for him to leave and I dread when he's home. When he is gone (like at work right now), I can sit on the computer, talk to my friends on the phone, or run errands, etc. When he is home, I can't talk on the phone because he complains that I talk too loudly and he asks questions about my conversation. I can't run errands, because he asks where I'm going and if I'm going to spend money. (No, hun, I'm planning on stealing dinner tonight!) I can't watch TV, because we almost always watch what he wants.

Anyway, didn't mean to go off on a tangent. The point I wanted to make is that, for the person with little or no desire, it just doesn't cross our minds. And the person with the higher needs can't fathom that. They assume--if not consciously--that everyone needs sex and so if their partner isn't putting out, it must be because those needs are being met in another manner.

The good news is that, in my opinion, an affair is less likely than just a diminished desire. Curiously, as a woman, I was a little miffed that I'd been told for years that women's libidos kick into high gear in their 30's. Well, 8 years into my 30's and I'm feeling ripped off! Where is it? Well, I recently read a new article that says that it's supposed to be in our 40's now.

Also, I did a search of the internet of "I never want sex". Of course, very few things came up. Most things suggested that there was something "wrong". For example, hormones, abuse, etc. Then, I searched "My wife never wants sex". Many more things came up. These things suggested that it was far more commonplace.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BorrowedHalo said:


> I think that the question of an affair when your spouse isn't interested is interesting. My husband never asked me, outright, but when he would travel he would intentionally be vague about when he was coming home and he would sometimes show up hours or even a day before I was expecting him. I laughed, cynically, with my BFF on the phone about it. He was expecting to "catch me" doing somthing, or with someone.
> 
> The sad irony of the matter is that his controlling personality has made it so that I can't wait for him to leave and I dread when he's home. When he is gone (like at work right now), I can sit on the computer, talk to my friends on the phone, or run errands, etc. When he is home, I can't talk on the phone because he complains that I talk too loudly and he asks questions about my conversation. I can't run errands, because he asks where I'm going and if I'm going to spend money. (No, hun, I'm planning on stealing dinner tonight!) I can't watch TV, because we almost always watch what he wants.
> 
> ...


would you be ok if your husband sought sexual fulfillment elsewhere?


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> would you be ok if your husband sought sexual fulfillment elsewhere?


I'm not sure how that question relates to my post.

AND, I don't know the answer. Sometimes I have felt like I really don't care. I have almost had a hard time seeing the difference between me and a hole in the wall. When you don't feel respected and then your husband wants to do it, it's kinda confusing. 

I think that I would be threatened if he had an affair more because it might end our marriage than because I really felt hurt. 

AND, I will also say that I go back and forth. I want to be fair to my husband in all of this by saying that THIS week, he's been good to be around. In fact, I MIGHT even be in the mood tonight! 

I think that right now, our problems are fixable. I'm not sure he'd want to try if he went as far as to have an affair.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

"I have almost had a hard time seeing the difference between me and a hole in the wall."

That's an interesting comment and one that I struggled with for a while.

I have a high sex drive and my wife doesn't. Right now we are in a compromise situation regarding sexual frequency but before, we were far apart.

I really didn't feel right expecting my wife to have sex when she wasn't interested. I think guys will agree with me that it's better to masturbate than to have a limp, uninterested wife underneath you.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BorrowedHalo said:


> I'm not sure how that question relates to my post.


it actually relates to all of your posts. you state over and over you dont like sex. you have given plenty of valid reasons why you dont want sex with your husband, but i dont think i have seen you say you would like sex, just not with him. but yet you stay married to him. he may be an arse and it may because he is in a sexless marriage, only you know.


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## goincrazy (Feb 20, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> the difference is when you are married and not getting your sexual needs fulfilled, you are basically trapped by the non sexual partner and the resentment builds.


:iagree:

I can understand that when two people get older and sex drive diminishes that sex would lessen, but my H is 31. At this stage in my life, which I feel to be my prime (32), I need a sexual partner. Things get done around the house, and our finances are in order, but that just doesn't cut it for me. We haven't had sex in a month. I feel like I am 65. It will probably only get worse after we have kids (we both want children), which is one reason why I am very weary about getting pregnant. We could have a million dollars in the bank, and I still wouldn't be happy with my home life. Without intimacy and sex, I don't think I can be happy.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Sex is an integral part of male and female health.

Even the Great Dr. Oz says so:

http://static.oprah.com/download/pdfs/health/oz/oz_antiaging_checklist.pdf

So it must be true 

So. . .if you feel like you are 32 going on 65, you probably are.


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## goincrazy (Feb 20, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Sex is an integral part of male and female health.
> 
> Even the Great Dr. Oz says so:
> 
> ...


Oh Dr. Oz, you wonderful man. He recommends 2-3 times/week, which sounds wonderful to me!!! Now to make that dream a reality.


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## josie (Jul 24, 2010)

I have never been sexually attracted to my husband I feel so guilty for it and thought our bond/friendship would get me over this. I love the closeness and intimacy of the act but have never had an orgasm with him or really wanted him in that way, at the beginning it wasnt such a big deal as there were so many other qualities I loved in him but now it seems so important. I would never stray and I am not sexually attracted to other men, but feel this is a big issue that I will just have to accept


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

You usually don't live with your friends for decades, or have children with them. There are marriages that are intimate on an interpersonal level but not a sexual one. People in sexless marriages stay together for a lot of reasons- kids, finances, age, low self esteem, physical or psychological illness. A long term sexless marriage does not effect the fact that there is a family involved and many prefer to keep that intact rather than break it up just to be able to have sex.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stop asking questions. Her behavior is "classic" affair behavior.

1. Install a keylogger on the computers she uses
2. Get a copy of phone bill and analyze the numbers/text messages
3. Put a GPS tracker in her car

Once you "think" you know who she is sleeping with, figure out how to catch her in the act. And then file - she isn't just a normal cheater - she is a sadistic cruel person as well.

What she is doing to you is a type of torture. 




LoveLostHusband said:


> My wife and I were living the perfect marriage(or so I thought). We were making love regularly, we just bought a house about 2 years ago, we have a beautiful child together...we were building the perfect family. I have a good job and she had just gotten her perfect job that she was working for. Then earlier this year I tried to fool around with her and she brushed me off, then the next night I tried again and she wasn't in the mood, the same the following night. So one night after putting our child to bed I asked her why the sudden change in emtion towards me and why she is giving me the cold shoulder......that was when she dropped a bomb on me and broke my heart(the first time). She told me she is no long "in" love with me and that she no longer finds me sexually or emotionally attractive. This came to an utter shock to me since litterally just a week before we had almost 3 days where we acted almost like teenagers in heat with one another. So after sitting in silence for a bit to digest this shocking news I asked her if she had cheated on me because of the suddenness of all of this and the sudden drop of, litterally, all emotion towards me it was the only thing I could think of at that moment. She got defensive and angry at the notion and said absolutely not.
> 
> I without hesitation believed her. Then after about a week I found out that she had gotten on birth control about 3 days before she had told me that she didn't find me sexually attractive. So of course I got to thinking...why would a person that doesn't want to have sex with her husband anymore want to get on birth control? So obviously I went straight to the cheating question again....and again she got defensive and angry and explained why the birthcontrol. This time though was a different story....evidentally she had felt out of love with me for months and she didn't want to have another child with me so she got on birth control and she just didn't feel like lieing about it to me anymore which was why the abrupt stop of sex and emotion towards me. So I bought it all. Then after almost a month going by with zero sex, zero emotion, zero communication outside of daily banter and conversation I asked her what was going on with our situation and our problem and she said that she still isn't attracted to me but this time her story changed again. Evidentally its not been months but rather years that she has felt like this and that maybe getting married wasn't the right thing to do for us.
> 
> ...


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

LoveLostHusband said:


> The part about coming home randomly from work to try to catch you cheating on him is something similar to what I do as well. Believe I truly do NOT want my wife to be cheating on me or for that matter catch her in the act. But I think the reason I do it isn't to "catch" her but rather to get a form of closure as to why this sudden emotionless swing towards me that is bordering coldness and hatred almost.
> 
> You mentioned above that your wife had been on birth control. She didn't use Mirena, did she? When I was on Mirena I *HATED* my husband so much that I was ready to call a lawyer one week when he _wasn't even in town._After I had the IUD removed, I have found that I can think much more clearly.
> 
> I will even randomly grab her butt and look at her face for a reaction and most the times its that of disgust as if I am diseased or some pervert on the street that dared to touch her. There are the good days where she might let me kiss her and/or grab her butt and she smiles...


This can be irritating to a mom. You have to understand that once we become a mom, we can't turn that off. The last thing we want is to be sexy if we're thinking of our child...which is most of the time during the day. Nothing personal.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

solothethinker said:


> I wonder how other members of this forum feel about my conclusion? Did you come to another one? Do you agree and if yes, then why?


Im sure it just depends on the person. but if i thought a marriage was first and foremost a sexual relationship i would be outta here. i feel marriage is first and foremost a partnership to deal with the trials of life, be there for each other, and to be partners in raising healthy children. sex is one way to accomplish many of these things, but certainly not the only way.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Marriage is good for all those things you mentioned except for one, good sex.

The idea that we need and deserve great sex over decades with the same person is fairly new, less that 100 years old and as a goal in marriage less than 30. Few people are equipped to make this happen. Good sex is really meant as a bonding mechanism that will create children, not an ongoing source of pleasure unto itself at least not at the level it is at the beginning of a relationship. As a matter of fact the very act of bonding that hot sex is supposed to create also kills it.

Sex Therapy researchers have begun to understand this in recent years and are trying to come up with ways to put the spark back in long term relationships using this as a base to build a new kind of couple's therapy.

When couples who are in sexless, low sex or heatless sex marriages seek treatment, therapists have found that "unbonding" the couple, what they call _differentiation_, can help do just that. They teach couples to be more independent of each other, not to live in each others hip pockets. By living their own lives and keeping the partner at arms length a sense of mystery and renewed interest and attraction is created and this in turn creates a higher level of sexual desire and excitement. 

Most people think great sex is the result of deep intimacy in the non sexual sense and indeed this does create a loving bond but the very nature of intense sexual desire does not flourish under this kind of bonded relationship. It is especially hard for men to maintain a high level of sexual interest under these circumstances.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Interesting stuff Mr. B - thanks for the share - it does make sense and does add to my parallel discussions sparked by this poster on whether husband and wife should be best friends or not.

Maybe not if they want the sex to be hot.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Why try to catch her?

Just leave her and it will come out if there is an affair. Why all the James Bond stuff?

She's ordering up a Nice Dish of Fractured Family. Go ahead and serve it to her.

Then get a wash basin and wash your hands in front of her.


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## LoveLostHusband (Jul 24, 2010)

To be honest with you, I don't think that my wife is cheating on me. Knowing her the way that I do, I don't believe she would do such a thing. She's the type of person that would abruptly end it if she wanted to have an affair on me. If it does end up that she is cheating on me then I guess I never really knew her in the first place. The reason that I lean towards the cheating question so much is because in some sick way I am hoping one day she answers "yes". Least then it will give me closure as to why the extreme and sudden stop of emotion and sexual interest towards me. She claims its because its been brewing for years and it reached a point where she couldn't take it anymore and she just stopped. I always felt that she loved me as much as I love her and I look at it as though despite even if I was no longer sexually attracted to her I could never see myself with another person because she was the one that I gave my heart to...and I only have one heart to give. With her wanting the separation, the split, and the hypothetical future of her finding someone she wants to love....it makes me wonder if she did love me the way I love her.

I have told her that separation isn't going to work because it will only do one thing....leave me alone with my imagination and in my imagination every male that she comes into contact with will be a potential person that has stolen her emotion, passion, and love from me. I also told her that I would give her her space to figure this out, and that I won't keep attempting to "catch her" anymore, but I asked that she communicates with me even if its just one line about how she is feeling.(she's the type of person that would go a year without telling me her feelings and then explode all of the sudden) We are seeking help from a marriage counsilor, which I pray that my wife will be objective with. If a suggestion doesn't sit well with my wife or she doesn't agree with it she will state that "every person is different and that won't work with her" or "its all subjective and doesn't refer to her". Bascally she dodges...

But like I said I don't believe my wife is cheating on me, and for the most part I don't think some of the husbands that I have seen mentioned in this thread believe their spouse is cheating on them. Its just that cheating is a problem and a closure that men can wrap their hands around. Most men are fixers; they see a problem, they find the source, and they seek a solution. In most cases in marriage where sex, emotion, passion vanish its not as black and white as a man would like it and therefore their "fixer" tendancies come to life. Its extremely important for the woman, in problems like these, to communicate fully and often with thier husband with thoughts and their feelings on the problem....unless they want their husband to control, smother, and irritate them to the point that the inadvertantly push the wife away.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

goincrazy said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I can understand that when two people get older and sex drive diminishes that sex would lessen, but my H is 31. At this stage in my life, which I feel to be my prime (32), I need a sexual partner. Things get done around the house, and our finances are in order, but that just doesn't cut it for me. We haven't had sex in a month. I feel like I am 65. It will probably only get worse after we have kids (we both want children), which is one reason why I am very weary about getting pregnant. We could have a million dollars in the bank, and I still wouldn't be happy with my home life. Without intimacy and sex, I don't think I can be happy.


Please DONT HAVE KIDS with a soouse you are sexually incompatible with. Its different if the incompatibility happens after kids... but you cant go into having kids with a tense and only escalating situation. Kids deserve to be born into a harmonious union in which to grow and thrive.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

To answer the OP's questions... the marriage has to be sexual as it is the only place you can have sex once you are married. If a spouse denies, then it is like a prison... trapped with no refuge. You feel like a mouse spinning on that wheel without an exit. The friendship forms out of the sexual/sensual connection you express for one another. It doesnt alway have to be intercourse, but there has to be sexuality that is comfortable for both spouses. Just my 2 cents.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

toolate said:


> To answer the OP's questions... the marriage has to be sexual as it is the only place you can have sex once you are married. If a spouse denies, then it is like a prison... trapped with no refuge. You feel like a mouse spinning on that wheel without an exit. The friendship forms out of the sexual/sensual connection you express for one another. It doesnt alway have to be intercourse, but there has to be sexuality that is comfortable for both spouses. Just my 2 cents.


yes, absolutely spot on


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Toolate:
*
THAT"S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!*

Friendship should come from and grow and develop from the natural sexuality between the pair, not the friendship nutures the sexuality.

That's sounds better than how I would have put it - 

"Less yacking and more f**king!"

And I agree also - the fact he is a loner other than perhaps a signal he's got clinical depression should have nothing to do with whether he wants a piece of tail or not.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> Toolate:
> *
> THAT"S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY!*
> 
> ...


Great minds think alike...:smthumbup:


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## goincrazy (Feb 20, 2010)

toolate said:


> Please DONT HAVE KIDS with a soouse you are sexually incompatible with. Its different if the incompatibility happens after kids... but you cant go into having kids with a tense and only escalating situation. Kids deserve to be born into a harmonious union in which to grow and thrive.


You are so right about this. This is what happens when you get married at 23 after knowing someone for 4 months. It's too bad that this is the case sexually, because we have worked really hard to finally get good jobs and get our finances in order. What a shame to have to start over. The other day when I was venting my frustrations about not having sex for a month, he just laughed. He said he understands why that upsets me, but he still found it to be amusing.


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## Verity39 (Jul 27, 2010)

I was wondering how sex therapists recommend couples might go about this unbonding to create excitement? 

I'm in a pretty sexless marriage with a nice guy I don't want to hurt but I'm thinking of leaving because of this and other issues of incompatibility. We're bonded through our children and families, finances, and years of living together. 

I wouldn't like to describe here the things I've done to create mystery and excitement but none of it has appealed to my husband. He's caring and helpful- just not sexual with me.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

The book "Constructing the Sexual Crucible" explains the differentiation therapy technique.


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

**merged duplicate threads**


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