# Sexless Marriage



## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

So I've been married for 6 months now and my marriage has been sexless for the past month and a half, it may not seem to much like everyone reading but for us it is a big deal. One of the reasons I married my wife is because we were so sexually compatible, I feel as though she was showing off to win the prize and then once she won the wooing me in the bedroom was diminished. I love sex, a lot. That is now my biggest problem in this relationship, we will only have sex when she is ovulating and wanting to have a child. She is possibly ovulating now and is about to start asking me to give her my seed, I'm going to deny her that chance and make sure she knows I'm not her slave in the bedroom. 

My problem is that I don't cheat but I have thoughts of cheating, I picked porn back up after she expressed her hatred of it. I need her to fulfill my sexual desires and I'm still very attracted to her and she could fulfill that for me. She has complained that she hurts during intercourse, that sometimes she's just not in the mood and all of the common "I just don't want to" cover ups. 

Btw I'm 22 and she is 20, we should be having the best sex of our lives!

What should my next move be?

Has anyone else had experience in this area?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

What did she say when you talked to her about it?

Did the pain start only after marriage or was it there prior?


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> What did she say when you talked to her about it?



She's not much of a communicator, she will say things like "I just don't want to" (main excuse). 


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

What was the quality/frequency prior to marriage? Did she have pain prior to marriage? Did you live with each other prior to marriage? Has your behavior changed since marriage (think real hard about this one--a lot of men, me included, fell into the trap of taking stuff for granted after marriage).


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Also, what was your prior communications about starting a family before marriage? Did you discuss when to start having kids, how many, etc?


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> What was the quality/frequency prior to marriage? Did she have pain prior to marriage? Did you live with each other prior to marriage? Has your behavior changed since marriage (think real hard about this one--a lot of men, me included, fell into the trap of taking stuff for granted after marriage).




Couple of times a day everyday before marriage, we did it maybe 1-3 times a week after marriage which was fine with me. She admitted to it hurting even before we were married but said "who would want to be with a woman that is a wimp in bed". My behavior has actually gotten better towards her, i help around the house, cook, clean, laundry. I pay all of the bills, bought her a new car a new place. I've opened up with my inner most feelings, I've even become an emotional person which is something I've never been. 


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> Also, what was your prior communications about starting a family before marriage? Did you discuss when to start having kids, how many, etc?




We actually have always discussed having kids, it has been a top priority but this go around I refuse to give her what she wants because of her selfishness in the bed. 


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

^

Good idea. Sort the mess out before children get dumped into it. They will bring more stress into the mix. Only a strong couple can weather that.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

EunuchMonk said:


> ^
> 
> Good idea. Sort the mess out before children get dumped into it. They will bring more stress into the mix. Only a strong couple can weather that.


Right idea, but wrong way to go about it.

"I'm not giving you my seed because you're just trying to use me for kids" = bad.

"Susie, I'm concerned that we need to be on the same page in all areas of our marriage including sexually before we bring children into it" = better


The pain issue is big here, I believe. It sounds like she probably downplayed the issue before marriage, but it's not something that she can sustain forever. It needs to be addressed. Have her see a doctor about it. 

Approach this with compassion, not accusation.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Many reasons for pain during sex. You could be big. Also, she will have to be physically aroused in order for her v to expand fully to accommodate you. If she's, instead, more concerned about satisfying you, she won't relax and expand and instead could feel pain. She mentioned her concern about not getting a mate if she isn't into sex, so I suspect this could be the issue.

Try taking it slower, adding more kissing and non sexual contact - hugging, rubbing her back and shoulder while you talk, etc. Ask how she feels and make sure you engage her as a person and with genuine interest. Tell her what you find attractive about her - her smile, beauty, etc.

The point is to romance her a bit and allow her time to get aroused and feel romantic. Kissing is probably very good.

If she had a sexual preferences, start with that.

Even now, after decades, I have to start slowly and not enter too quickly to be sure she enjoys things as much as me. Sometimes guys who are a bit bigger don't realize it takes a moment or two to acclimate.

Just an idea...

Oh and try lube if for some reason it's needed. Everyone is different so be thoughtful and aware 


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

She may also have a tilted cervix which can make sex in certain positions painful. The next time she has an examination it may be a good idea to question it. I was 42 before my nurse mentioned it to me and it explained a lot. 

You say that you should be having the best sex of your lives at your young age. We got married at 22 and we were relatively inexperienced. Getting to know your partner's body and mind can take a long time and if your wife does not like talking about sex then it will take even longer - I would argue the early years are not necessarily the best sex, for us awkward and clumsy. The best sex for us came when we were older simply because we were more experienced and lost our inhibitions. I would recommend you both read about sex and sexuality (the Modern Kama Sutra is very good), practice different positions and places to have sex (sex in the bath is nice and relaxing). Don't let it get routine, keep it exciting (sex before marriage is thrilling because there is an element of naughtiness to it all). 

Talk to her about porn. As difficult as it is, if you do this secretly it will cause more problems later, it can be harmful to you as a couple if you are substituting porn for sex, it can make people completely disconnect. Tell her what you like about porn, how it makes you feel, why you use it and that you will always turn to it without regular sex (this is honest - don't pretend to give up if she hates it as you will keep hurting her). Tell her that porn is lame compared to having sex, that you chose her first - porn second. It may give her the incentive to make the effort.

Keep us updated...we want to know how you get on :smile2:.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She's a very lucky woman, @Nick0514, finding a man of your tender years who was able to afford to buy her a home of her own and a car.

Oh! Now, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but did she marry you for money? If you can afford to buy her a home and a car then you either earn way above what could be expected for a person of your age, or you have a trust fund?

As for the painful sex, has she been checked out by the doctor or a gynaecologist?

A counsellor specialising in sex problems might be of help.

Also, hate to raise this subject, but is it possible she might be having her needs fulfilled by someone else?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She used sex to capture you. Now she's using it to trap you with a child. I am quite serious: GET OUT NOW. Divorce her, and stop having sex immediately so no mistakes are made that will trap you. If you don't, you'll be stuck in a sexless relationship until you get so frustrated you'll leave - she'll trickle just enough sex to make that choice difficult.


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> She's a very lucky woman, @Nick0514, finding a man of your tender years who was able to afford to buy her a home of her own and a car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She isn't being unfaithful, I know that for a fact. She didn't know my credit score before getting married, and I don't want to brag but I am an exceptionally handsome man which is "the reason I caught her eye". And we haven't been to the Dr. 


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Nick0514 said:


> Couple of times a day everyday before marriage, we did it maybe 1-3 times a week after marriage which was fine with me. She admitted to it hurting even before we were married but said "who would want to be with a woman that is a wimp in bed".


Come on. You're 22 years old which means you probably know very very little about how to truly please a woman. And no, your magic member is NOT the answer to sexual bliss as most young guys are led to believe because they get their 'education' from porn. If one believes nonsense porn, women need all of 3 seconds of foreplay and then want to be battered for the next 20 minutes while they 'orgasm' over and over and over. Pffft.

Sex shouldn't be a damned endurance test for this poor girl and that's what it sounds like.

If she's feeling pain during sex (barring possible medical reasons), then she's obviously *not *being properly aroused or satisfied. I have a sneaking suspicion - and would bet *good* money - that she's been faking it with you and letting you think she's satisfied. She's obviously not but I'm almost certain you'll reply that you're positive she is.

It sounds as though you both need a proper education on how the female body actually works.

Look, I don't blame her for not wanting to have sex when it all represents to her is pain.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It's hard to blame a person for avoiding pain. She thought she could tough it out, but it isn't working. That doesn't change my advice. Fix the problem before pregnancy. Openness and doctors right away.


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Come on. You're 22 years old which means you probably know very very little about how to truly please a woman. And no, your magic member is NOT the answer to sexual bliss as most young guys are led to believe because they get their 'education' from porn. If one believes nonsense porn, women need all of 3 seconds of foreplay and then want to be battered for the next 20 minutes while they 'orgasm' over and over and over. Pffft.
> 
> Sex shouldn't be a damned endurance test for this poor girl and that's what it sounds like.
> 
> ...




We actually do about 15 minutes of foreplay before sex, not to sound nasty but when I go down on her that is my main goal is to give her an orgasm before sex. I even bought toys to better arouse her in the bedroom that we use together to the point to where she is begging me for it after foreplay. She doesn't start complaining of it hurting until about five minutes after intercourse has begun. And so we are limited to the missionary position because it's the one that doesn't hurt.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Look, I don't blame her for not wanting to have sex when it all represents to her is pain.


I agree with this. However, she lied and misled you prior to marriage by letting you think it wasn't that big a deal. Classic bait and switch. Now that you're married, it's suddenly an issue. IMO, you can't trust her. However, it's not unreasonable for you to give her some time (at most a year) to seek medical help to improve things - if she won't (or there's no change) then my original advice still stands.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

This is no way to live. If she's like this in your "honeymoon" phase, then things will only get worse. Take it from someone who's been there--you need to resolve this now. This will go against a lot of the advice offered in here, but I do not believe that touchy-feely talks and doing the dishes will get you anywhere. You need to take a stand now. Definitely decline her offer to conceive a child. Tell her it's because you're starting to question your future together. You see yourself 10-20 years from now in a passionless, loveless marriage, and you're not sure you can handle this for the long haul.


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Tatsuhiko said:


> This is no way to live. If she's like this in your "honeymoon" phase, then things will only get worse. Take it from someone who's been there--you need to resolve this now. This will go against a lot of the advice offered in here, but I do not believe that touchy-feely talks and doing the dishes will get you anywhere. You need to take a stand now. Definitely decline her offer to conceive a child. Tell her it's because you're starting to question your future together. You see yourself 10-20 years from now in a passionless, loveless marriage, and you're not sure you can handle this for the long haul.




This is what I have planned on doing. Thank you all for the advice and insight!


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You have been baited and switched. Do NOT have a child with this woman while there is a sexual mismatch. It isn't fair to you or to the child. Put off conception until the sex has been great for at least a year. Do not tell her that the time limit is a year.

In fact, you should give her no more than 3 to 6 months to fix the sex problem. Or at least for her to go get medical help and implement a treatment program designed to fix the problem. Do not tell her about the 3 to 6 month deadline. If she hasn't taken steps to fix the problem and you do not see effort on her part in 3 to 6 months, file for divorce. Seems callous and cruel, and a lack of dedication to marriage, but it is best for both of you.

Marriage is hard work. As time goes on it gets harder before it gets better. You have kids. You buy a house or apartment. You get promoted to a job with a little more pay but a lot more time required and pressure imposed. Neither of you has enough time for yourselves much less each other. If you don't have decent sex to help glue you together, you get pulled apart. If you are frustrated and resent her over the absence of sex, you get pulled apart more.

Not suggesting that marriage is not worth investing time, doing work, and making a commitment. But you have to make that commitment to a person who is a good match for you. You thought you did. She pretended to be someone she isn't. Either she can be that person for the long haul or you need to find someone else who is that person.

Fair warning: I am a bitter and frustrated person who has been warped by my marriage experience. So take my advice with a grain of salt. But just a small grain.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I think this could be a simple medical problem that her gyno can answer quickly. 
Not every woman is a conniving money grubber.
Get the medical addressed, and I hope that gives you the answers and solution you both need.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Nick0514 said:


> So I've been married for 6 months now and my marriage has been sexless for the past month and a half, it may not seem to much like everyone reading but for us it is a big deal. One of the reasons I married my wife is because we were so sexually compatible, I feel as though she was showing off to win the prize and then once she won the wooing me in the bedroom was diminished. I love sex, a lot. That is now my biggest problem in this relationship, we will only have sex when she is ovulating and wanting to have a child. *She is possibly ovulating now and is about to start asking me to give her my seed,* I'm going to deny her that chance and make sure she knows I'm not her slave in the bedroom.


Whatever you do don't risk her getting pregnant, you don't have a good relationship here and you are both too young. At 20 years old and just married you two should be christening every room in the house because the bed is broken. Having a child is a huge deal. You need to spend time really getting to know each other first, you need to do things together that you want to do like travel and experiences. Being a parent is an amazing experience but it is also a full time thing for a long time and you two need to have your own experiences as a couple first.



Nick0514 said:


> My problem is that I don't cheat but I have thoughts of cheating, I picked porn back up after she expressed her hatred of it. I need her to fulfill my sexual desires and I'm still very attracted to her and she could fulfill that for me. She has complained that she hurts during intercourse, that sometimes she's just not in the mood and all of the common "*I just don't want to*" cover ups.
> 
> Btw I'm 22 and she is 20, we should be having the best sex of our lives!
> 
> ...





Nick0514 said:


> Couple of times a day everyday before marriage, we did it maybe 1-3 times a week after marriage which was fine with me. *She admitted to it hurting even before we were married* but said "who would want to be with a woman that is a wimp in bed". My behavior has actually gotten better towards her, i help around the house, cook, clean, laundry. I pay all of the bills, bought her a new car a new place. I've opened up with my inner most feelings, I've even become an emotional person which is something I've never been.





Nick0514 said:


> She's not much of a communicator, she will say things like "*I just don't want to*" (main excuse).


She needs to see a Dr first and foremost. If she refuses then that may just be another excuse.

At 6 months married "I just don't want to" is a problem in itself. I fell for this one. We had sex frequently when we were engaged, different positions and even she said that "quickies" were fun. Almost as soon as she got the ring on that all stopped. Sex became something I had to earn as a reward and "that's it no sex for you" was the first response to a disagreement or something not going her way. I didn't recognize the signs early enough, I should have walked away in the first year. 

The intimate relationship, and that includes sex, is not a take it or leave it option in a marriage that one partner gets to just not bother with. You both made the same vows. You need to sort this out quickly, before you start building up resentment, as the longer on it goes the worse it gets from both sides.

BTW - The not much of a communicator needs to be addressed as well, without communication between you you may as well give up now.

There is a lot of truth in the statement that you need to be prepared to lose the whole relationship in order to fix it. She has to understand that this is a big deal to you and to you both as a couple. It's not something that she can just ignore if she wants to stay together.

I wish you well.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It sounds like you changed into her girlfriend and she feels a little too safe and secure. You know, most women don't have sex with their girlfriends. Stop with the chores and the emotional side.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its quite possible you are right, but it may not be that simple. Some women can experience both pleasure and discomfort from sex. Some women, even when very aroused, find intercourse painful - sometimes they get conditioned to expecting intercourse to hurt, and that stress keeps them from relaxing so it does hurt - reinforcing the worry.

This is among the many sex issues I have with my wife. She finds PIV uncomfortable, so we do it rarely, and then she finds in more uncomfortable. I always do what she wants, and almost always she has a O from something - usually including a vibrator. She can always O from PIV along with a vibrator, but often complains later that it made her sore. During the rare periods of time when we had frequent sex, it would become comfortable and enjoyable for her and things would be great until the frequency declined again.








She'sStillGotIt said:


> snip
> 
> If she's feeling pain during sex (barring possible medical reasons), then she's obviously *not *being properly aroused or satisfied. I have a sneaking suspicion - and would bet *good* money - that she's been faking it with you and letting you think she's satisfied. She's obviously not but I'm almost certain you'll reply that you're positive she is.
> 
> snip.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Please do not have a child with her.

If she finds intercourse painful, then there is every reason to try to understand why. I'm very concerned though that she finds it painful, except when she is trying to get pregnant, and except before she was married.

There could be lots of reasons, but it is consistent with her trying to trap you. 




Nick0514 said:


> So I've been married for 6 months now and my marriage has been sexless for the past month and a half, it may not seem to much like everyone reading but for us it is a big deal. One of the reasons I married my wife is because we were so sexually compatible, I feel as though she was showing off to win the prize and then once she won the wooing me in the bedroom was diminished. I love sex, a lot. That is now my biggest problem in this relationship, we will only have sex when she is ovulating and wanting to have a child. She is possibly ovulating now and is about to start asking me to give her my seed, I'm going to deny her that chance and make sure she knows I'm not her slave in the bedroom.
> 
> My problem is that I don't cheat but I have thoughts of cheating, I picked porn back up after she expressed her hatred of it. I need her to fulfill my sexual desires and I'm still very attracted to her and she could fulfill that for me. She has complained that she hurts during intercourse, that sometimes she's just not in the mood and all of the common "I just don't want to" cover ups.
> 
> ...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Nick0514 said:


> We actually do about 15 minutes of foreplay before sex, not to sound nasty but when I go down on her that is my main goal is to give her an orgasm before sex. I even bought toys to better arouse her in the bedroom that we use together to the point to where she is begging me for it after foreplay. She doesn't start complaining of it hurting until about five minutes after intercourse has begun.* And so we are limited to the missionary position because it's the one that doesn't hurt.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm betting it is a physical problem. Get her to a doctor. Specifically explain that she is there because sex is painful in all but missionary. Hopefully, the doctor will do a physical exam and find the problem so that it can be treated.

That said, some LD people will marry to have a mate and children, have sex when trying to conceive, and then avoid it like the plague the rest of the time. Saying "I don't want to because it hurts." is one of the few excuses that cannot be absolutely disproven. So, echoing everyone else, don't have a baby unless the problem is solved and your sex life is healthy for at least a year.


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## Sadder but Wiser (Oct 19, 2016)

Nick0514 said:


> So I've been married for 6 months now and my marriage has been sexless for the past month and a half, it may not seem to much like everyone reading but for us it is a big deal. One of the reasons I married my wife is because we were so sexually compatible, I feel as though she was showing off to win the prize and then once she won the wooing me in the bedroom was diminished. I love sex, a lot. That is now my biggest problem in this relationship, we will only have sex when she is ovulating and wanting to have a child. She is possibly ovulating now and is about to start asking me to give her my seed, I'm going to deny her that chance and make sure she knows I'm not her slave in the bedroom.
> 
> My problem is that I don't cheat but I have thoughts of cheating, I picked porn back up after she expressed her hatred of it. I need her to fulfill my sexual desires and I'm still very attracted to her and she could fulfill that for me. She has complained that she hurts during intercourse, that sometimes she's just not in the mood and all of the common "I just don't want to" cover ups.
> 
> ...


Nick, I've been married for 24 years to a woman who mostly has gone through the motions during sex; the only times she has initiated sex are when she wanted to get pregnant.. She has never orgasmed from anything other than a vibrator, even though my previous girlfriends all responded to me. My Advice: LEAVE HER NOW before she traps you with a child. Her situation will never improve; if she hates sex at her young age, things will only get worse as time goes by, and you'll be in a miserable, sexless marriage, or divorced paying child support.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It sounds like you changed into her girlfriend and she feels a little too safe and secure.


Yup. Now that she's married to you, she's "got" you and there's no need to work on winning you over. What she needs to understand is that every day for the rest of your lives she should still be trying to win you over (and vice versa). Unfortunately, you need to put a little distance between the two of you to make that point. You should ask her, point blank, how you can meet her needs better, because you're starting to suspect that she's not as "into" you as you expected. That's what I asked my wife: "What am I doing wrong that you don't seem attracted to me?" She couldn't come up with anything. It was only when she saw me slipping away that she woke up. 

I think the medical exam is the right course of action. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that they'll find absolutely nothing wrong with her. The exam will at least eliminate it as an excuse. 

I hate to say it, but you two got married really young. You're both still developing as people and you might find that you end up incompatible on a whole host of issues. In other words, there are many reasons why you should consider postponing a baby, especially since things have started out badly. You need to see how this whole thing plays out over the next few years before you have a better idea of whether the marriage will ultimately work out. 

Good luck to both of you, in any case.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It sounds like you changed into her girlfriend and she feels a little too safe and secure. You know, most women don't have sex with their girlfriends. Stop with the chores and the emotional side.


Disagree.

Continue with the chores and emotional side. Just don't rely on that to be the reason she'd want to have sex with you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, with the proper instrumentation you can detect pain (http://gomerblog.com/2014/06/pain-detector/) but me wonders how the pain was not an issue before the wedding ring...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

^^^^ This to me is the red flag here. Lots of sex and no mention of pain until after the wedding. Then sex cuts back and she "admits" it always hurt she just didn't mention it until after they got married.

2 possibilities. It always hurt but she hid that from him so he would marry her. Because maybe he wouldn't have wanted to marry someone who found sex painful. Or it doesn't hurt, but she finds that a convenient justification for not wanting to have sex with him. It doesn't matter which it is. Either way, this is a huge red flag. Don't stay married to someone who felt that you did not need to know that sex was painful for them. If they could hide that from you, who knows what else they will decide you don't need to know during marriage. And don't stay married to someone who lies about sex being painful. Either way, hard to justify staying married to someone who does not feel obliged to share important information that affects the relationship.

This would be very different to me if sex stopped and she said "sex started to be painful for me a few weeks ago, sorry I did not mention it right away, I am just getting used to this marriage business". But saying "sex has always been painful, even before we got married, I just didn't want to bother you with knowing" is a HUGE red flag.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Nick0514 said:


> She admitted to it hurting even before we were married but said "who would want to be with a woman that is a wimp in bed".


WHOA y'all need to put down the pitchforks for a moment. Why is everyone missing this part of the story?


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

If sex is painful for a long time, I'm wondering why she hasn't sorted out the issue yet. 
I had an issue where sex was really painful, I went immediately to my doctor and got it sorted out. 
Took two weeks, I was back to normal again. 
So the bigger question is why isn't she getting any medical attention, if not it may be a concern that it's likely an excuse, and will be for years, unless sorted out now. 


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Interesting device. I think thought that "pain" is a multidimensional thing. For me there is relatively good and relatively bad pain. 

Sex might also confuse things. Most people's pain tolerance goes up when they are aroused - not sure what the meter would read. 



john117 said:


> Well, with the proper instrumentation you can detect pain (Pain Detector Gives Actual Pain Score | GomerBlog) but me wonders how the pain was not an issue before the wedding ring...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

john117 said:


> Well, with the proper instrumentation you can detect pain (Pain Detector Gives Actual Pain Score | GomerBlog) but me wonders how the pain was not an issue before the wedding ring...


My sister is a complete horndogette. When she and her H were dating and first married, she felt some pain during sex, but...sex. After the marriage, it got a little worse, but...sex. A few months later and it go so bad she couldn't do it anymore. Turns out, she had PCOS and it was progressively worsening.

My buddy J is married to a woman that has endometriosis. When they first got together, the sex was hot and heavy. After they married, it trickled to nothing because her condition was also steadily worsening with time.

There are many conditions that effect lady bits that can cause painful sex and most of them will worsen over time without treatment.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Nick0514 said:


> *I love sex, a lot. That is now my biggest problem in this relationship...*


*There is your problem! *

Sex should never be made into a problem or a source of anxiety in the relationship. If you think you have problems now, wait until you actually start fighting over sex! 

Odds are your wife does not see your desire for sex as a way to connect with her, but perhaps more of her just being a warm, moist hole that gets used repeatedly. She wants to know that you really love her and that she is not a vagina. 

Just as you think she wooed you, now is your time to be patient and woo her!

Good luck, 
Badsanta


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well... There's not a lot of time between the beginning of the story and now..


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> WHOA y'all need to put down the pitchforks for a moment. Why is everyone missing this part of the story?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


What part of the story are they missing? 

It supposedly hurt before marriage and she did not tell him because she realized that would end the relationship. She dangled the bait and dropped the hammer after he was fully suckered in.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> WHOA y'all need to put down the pitchforks for a moment. Why is everyone missing this part of the story?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I'll just put this here again because it seems the old bait-and-switch Battle Cry is steamrolling ahead. ( the part where she had told him before marriage that it hurt. Quit glossing over it.)



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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> I'll just put this here again because it seems the old bait-and-switch Battle Cry is steamrolling ahead. ( the part where she had told him before marriage that it hurt. Quit glossing over it.)


I saw that. On the other hand, you are glossing over the fact that they were having frequent sex before marriage, despite it hurting. So, either she was lying about how bad it was, or - to give her the benefit of the doubt - perhaps the pain got a lot worse right after saying "I do." I still think it was intentional bait and switch, given what OP has told us and absent any evidence to the contrary.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> I'll just put this here again because it seems the old bait-and-switch Battle Cry is steamrolling ahead. ( the part where she had told him before marriage that it hurt. Quit glossing over it.)
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


The OP needs to clarify, I took his statement to mean she admitted this pain before marriage recently - not before marriage. 

To be clear - she told him AFTER marriage that it hurt even before marriage. 

You think she told him before they got married that it hurt. 

OP - which one is it!


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

She's also 20 years old. Not much in the way of life experience, or presumably sexual experience. Depending on how long she's been sexually active, it's reasonable that she doesn't understand that it's not supposed to feel like that. It's also reasonable that she doesn't understand that it might be treatable. 

I think these two VERY young newlyweds should try some education and medical help before pulling the trigger on divorce (or pregnancy).


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> I'll just put this here again because it seems the old bait-and-switch Battle Cry is steamrolling ahead. ( the part where she had told him before marriage that it hurt. Quit glossing over it.)




Sorry I'm at work but, to clear things up, a comment she made before even being engaged is "I want to be married in my next relationship and I couldn't ever picture that with anyone else besides you" she then picked a date to get married all on her own and then proceeded to say "I really want to get married on this date, it's the perfect time!" I was against it and said we need to date and be engaged longer to make sure this is what we both want (though I had full intentions of definitely marrying her). She replied to me with "If we don't get married on that date I don't ever see a reason to get married, because it's so perfect", "we may never get this chance again". 
SHE SAID SEX HAS ALWAYS HURT HER EVEN BEFORE WE MARRIED AND SAID "WHO WOULD STAY WITH SOMEONE WHO IS BEING A WIMP ABOUT SEX ALL OF THE TIME". 
When I got married life became real to me, I stopped being the typical a$$ hole and started developing an emotional side because I care whole heartedly for my wife and always will, what marriage did to her was make her comfortable. I was a trophy to her, 2 of her 4 great friends wanted to be with me and I had a past with them and once we got engaged should would put "I won!" (With a trophy emoji) on all of her pictures. She in complacent and I will not stand for it, but I will love her through the process. Thanks to all. 


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

john117 said:


> Well... There's not a lot of time between the beginning of the story and now..


There was less than 6 months for my sister. Disease is disease. Sometimes it progresses rapidly, sometimes slowly, and sometimes in fits and spurts.

My friends sister, P, also had pain during sex and never told her then fiance. She had a feeling it was serious, so she deliberately tried to conceive BEFORE seeking treatment because she was afraid she would lose her fertility. She was actually correct. She was lucky enough to conceive and carry her son before she was told hysterectomy was necessary (severe endo) ...at age 26. It's entirely possible OP's wife is afraid that if she seeks treatment, she will lose her fertility and that is why she wants to TTC now.

If the OP's wife is willing to seek treatment, for real, then I would give her the benefit of the doubt.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Nick0514 said:


> Sorry I'm at work but, to clear things up, a comment she made before even being engaged is "I want to be married in my next relationship and I couldn't ever picture that with anyone else besides you" she then picked a date to get married all on her own and then proceeded to say "I really want to get married on this date, it's the perfect time!" I was against it and said we need to date and be engaged longer to make sure this is what we both want (though I had full intentions of definitely marrying her). She replied to me with "If we don't get married on that date I don't ever see a reason to get married, because it's so perfect", "we may never get this chance again".
> SHE SAID SEX HAS ALWAYS HURT HER EVEN BEFORE WE MARRIED AND SAID "WHO WOULD STAY WITH SOMEONE WHO IS BEING A WIMP ABOUT SEX ALL OF THE TIME".
> When I got married life became real to me, I stopped being the typical a$$ hole and started developing an emotional side because I care whole heartedly for my wife and always will, what marriage did to her was make her comfortable. I was a trophy to her, 2 of her 4 great friends wanted to be with me and I had a past with them and once we got engaged should would put "I won!" (With a trophy emoji) on all of her pictures. She in complacent and I will not stand for it, but I will love her through the process. Thanks to all.
> 
> ...


Lots more information from this post. I appreciate your clarification. Regardless, it is pertinent that she get a medical workup to explore any medical issues with regard to the pain.





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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nick,

There are a few core unknowns at this point. That said, there is one thing that will put you in a terribly weak position: conception

From today forward you need to wear a condom EVERY TIME you have sex. Doesn't matter what time of month how safe you think you are, EVERY TIME. 

There are two reasons for this:
- The mechanical avoidance of pregnancy
- The rebalancing of your completely broken power dynamic

For example the only proper response to: We either get married on this date or never....

Was: I'm not ready to get married. We can however discuss a timeline that works for both of us - since I do eventually want to marry you. 

And then no movement at all when she's starts to 'precipice dance' with you via the usual moves: 
- You don't love me
- Maybe we should break up etc...

So - this - insistence on condoms - on a method of birth control that YOU control - is your chance to show that - precipice dancing - also known as emotional terrorism - is not effective against you.

I'm gonna warn you in advance, this is going to be painful. She is likely going to threaten to withhold sex entirely. She will also claim the condoms worsen her pain.

Calmly, firmly: I'm not ready for a child.

Don't explain, don't justify. Don't get angry or say mean things. Just stick with: I'm not ready.

You can say: I'm sorry you are upset. (But that's the only apology to make).

Do not say: I am not letting you steamroll me again - like with the wedding. 

Don't call her selfish or deceitful. Don't explicitly link this to your sexual issues. 

If she gets as aggressive as I expect, you ought ask her what the huge rush is. 

The faster she begins to question the relationship - the more likely it is that she sees you as a means to an end. As a good co-parent and provider. 







Nick0514 said:


> Sorry I'm at work but, to clear things up, a comment she made before even being engaged is "I want to be married in my next relationship and I couldn't ever picture that with anyone else besides you" she then picked a date to get married all on her own and then proceeded to say "I really want to get married on this date, it's the perfect time!" I was against it and said we need to date and be engaged longer to make sure this is what we both want (though I had full intentions of definitely marrying her). She replied to me with "If we don't get married on that date I don't ever see a reason to get married, because it's so perfect", "we may never get this chance again".
> SHE SAID SEX HAS ALWAYS HURT HER EVEN BEFORE WE MARRIED AND SAID "WHO WOULD STAY WITH SOMEONE WHO IS BEING A WIMP ABOUT SEX ALL OF THE TIME".
> When I got married life became real to me, I stopped being the typical a$$ hole and started developing an emotional side because I care whole heartedly for my wife and always will, what marriage did to her was make her comfortable. I was a trophy to her, 2 of her 4 great friends wanted to be with me and I had a past with them and once we got engaged should would put "I won!" (With a trophy emoji) on all of her pictures. She in complacent and I will not stand for it, but I will love her through the process. Thanks to all.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The issue isn't that she lied about the pain. That was self preservation 101. Selfish - but within the range of normal.

The HUGE red flag is she hasn't made much effort to substitute other activities (manual, oral) for intercourse. The only explanations for that choice are very bad. Either selfishness or a lack of attraction. 






MEM2020 said:


> Nick,
> 
> There are a few core unknowns at this point. That said, there is one thing that will put you in a terribly weak position: conception
> 
> ...


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Nick0514 said:


> Sorry I'm at work but, to clear things up, a comment she made before even being engaged is "*I want to be married in my next relationship* and I couldn't ever picture that with anyone else besides you" she then picked a date to get married all on her own and then proceeded to say "I really want to get married on this date, it's the perfect time!" I was against it and said we need to date and be engaged longer to make sure this is what we both want (though I had full intentions of definitely marrying her). She replied to me with "*If we don't get married on that date I don't ever see a reason to get married, because it's so perfect*", "we may never get this chance again".
> SHE SAID SEX HAS ALWAYS HURT HER EVEN BEFORE WE MARRIED AND SAID "WHO WOULD STAY WITH SOMEONE WHO IS BEING A WIMP ABOUT SEX ALL OF THE TIME".
> When I got married life became real to me, I stopped being the typical a$$ hole and started developing an emotional side because I care whole heartedly for my wife and always will, what marriage did to her was make her comfortable. I was a trophy to her, 2 of her 4 great friends wanted to be with me and I had a past with them and *once we got engaged should would put "I won!" (With a trophy emoji) on all of her pictures*. She in complacent and I will not stand for it, but I will love her through the process. Thanks to all.


And you went ahead with it? She didn't want a marriage she wanted a wedding, and those are not the same thing. Now she's had the wedding and realized that she's stuck with a marriage and her friends aren't jealous every day.


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Ladies and gents what you've all been waiting for, I came home and had the talk with my wife about why it's on existent. I told her it angers me that she is selfish in the bedroom and that it makes a lot of the other situations in our marriage anger me easier, she said "I'm still very attracted to you so that isn't the case, I just don't like how mean you are to me, I just feel like you're rude 100% of the time, it leads to me not being in the mood even though I want that with you again." 

What are your thoughts on her reply? I'm happy because she isn't a confrontational type of person and she really stepped it up and made me happy with a mature and honest response. 


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Nick0514 said:


> Ladies and gents what you've all been waiting for, I came home and had the talk with my wife about why it's on existent. I told her it angers me that she is selfish in the bedroom and that it makes a lot of the other situations in our marriage anger me easier, she said "I'm still very attracted to you so that isn't the case, I just don't like how mean you are to me, I just feel like you're rude 100% of the time, it leads to me not being in the mood even though I want that with you again."
> 
> What are your thoughts on her reply? I'm happy because she isn't a confrontational type of person and she really stepped it up and made me happy with a mature and honest response.


If you're happy with her mature and honest response then you need to stop being mean and rude to her.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Nick0514 said:


> Ladies and gents what you've all been waiting for, I came home and had the talk with my wife about why it's on existent. I told her it angers me that she is selfish in the bedroom and that it makes a lot of the other situations in our marriage anger me easier, she said "I'm still very attracted to you so that isn't the case, I just don't like how mean you are to me, I just feel like you're rude 100% of the time, it leads to me not being in the mood even though I want that with you again."
> 
> What are your thoughts on her reply? I'm happy because she isn't a confrontational type of person and she really stepped it up and made me happy with a mature and honest response.


Have you truly been mean and rude 100% of the time? Not sometimes, but ALL the time? If so, then I question why you married her and why she married you. Mean and rude 100% of the time during the first 6 months? And must have started after the wedding, or why did she marry you? So did you suddenly become a monster once you got that ring onto her finger?

If not (and I doubt you did), then I suggest you kiss your sex life goodbye if you stay married to her. She views sex as something she doles out when you have been good. Something you have to earn. Not something she enjoys or wants for herself or that causes her to feel emotionally closer to you. Not something that causes her to feel pride and joy that she can bring you so much pleasure. No, she sees it as a tool to manipulate you.

If you have not in fact been a monster 100% of the time, then I see her answer as being pretty much the worst possible outcome of "the talk". I heard that for 8 years of MC. "I would love to have sex with you if you only treated me better." Took me 8 years to realize I would never behave well enough to "deserve" sex (in her mind). Do not make my mistake and wait that long to accept reality.

To me, it would have been much better if she had focused on the pain. Then you could hope that medical treatment would cure the pain and she would go back to being an enthusiastic sex partner. As it is, I see very little chance of a good outcome for you if the availability of sex constantly depends on you constantly remaining on good behavior.

But we all know I am very pessimistic on this issue, and see "bait and switch" everywhere. I am curious how others see her response.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ask her, exactly what treatment would result in sex 3-4 times a week (or daily if you prefer). Tell her you need specifics. I doubt she will expect that and I doubt she'll have an answer. If she dies, comply for one week then tell her you expect sex how many ever times you specified. This will force her to take responsibility for her part, and you yiyrs


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## Nick0514 (Oct 19, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> Have you truly been mean and rude 100% of the time? Not sometimes, but ALL the time? If so, then I question why you married her and why she married you. Mean and rude 100% of the time during the first 6 months? And must have started after the wedding, or why did she marry you? So did you suddenly become a monster once you got that ring onto her finger?
> 
> If not (and I doubt you did), then I suggest you kiss your sex life goodbye if you stay married to her. She views sex as something she doles out when you have been good. Something you have to earn. Not something she enjoys or wants for herself or that causes her to feel emotionally closer to you. Not something that causes her to feel pride and joy that she can bring you so much pleasure. No, she sees it as a tool to manipulate you.
> 
> ...




I'm of being honest here, I feel as though you are downplaying and looking for the worst in people's marriages because yours didn't work out. My wife is a full time student, works a part time job and that can easily take a tole on her as well as my sarcastic comments some of the time, I admit to being rude to her at times but we are young and 6 months isn't enough to call it quits in my book nor hers. I didn't come here looking for someone to convince me to get a divorce or sulk in a sexless marriage. I came here for help and I'm not so sure that's what you're here to provide. 


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't question that sex is painful for her. What concerns me is that she was willing to put up with it when it benefited her: to get the OP to marry her, to get pregnant, but not when it is only for his benefit. 

It could be OK if she has decided that the pain is too much and she wants to stop sex until its fixed - but she still wants sex to get pregnant. 

It could even be OK if she told him that she was willing to put up with sex to become pregnant, but would do anything non-painful to please him: does she happily give BJs? 

At the very least she should be investigating any possible solution to giving the man she supposedly loves a good sex life - since that is what they had before marriage. 

The pattern that I don't like is that she seems to want sex only for herself and not for him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> The issue isn't that she lied about the pain. That was self preservation 101. Selfish - but within the range of normal.
> 
> The HUGE red flag is she hasn't made much effort to substitute other activities (manual, oral) for intercourse. The only explanations for that choice are very bad. Either selfishness or a lack of attraction.


Then my first flame should be awarded the honesty Nobel prize... She was a true CSA survivor, as I had the details of what happened from a relative. She told me up front that she was not interested in anything physical and told me why. We were an incredible match and had to split because both of us moved for gras school... She never married. I would have been more than happy to stay with her...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think people who have experienced long marriages with large sexual mismatches are trying to warn you based on their own experience.

No once an know what is really going on in your relationship from a few typed words so people try to guess based on their own experience. What you are experiencing is consistent with a selfish woman who is trying to trap you. It may be also be consistent with all sorts other things as well.

You have more information than any of us. What do you think is going on? Why do you think she had sex with you before marriage, then stopped, except for attempts to get pregnant? 






Nick0514 said:


> I'm of being honest here, I feel as though you are downplaying and looking for the worst in people's marriages because yours didn't work out. My wife is a full time student, works a part time job and that can easily take a tole on her as well as my sarcastic comments some of the time, I admit to being rude to her at times but we are young and 6 months isn't enough to call it quits in my book nor hers. I didn't come here looking for someone to convince me to get a divorce or sulk in a sexless marriage. I came here for help and I'm not so sure that's what you're here to provide.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Nick0514 said:


> I'm of being honest here, I feel as though you are downplaying and looking for the worst in people's marriages because yours didn't work out. My wife is a full time student, works a part time job and that can easily take a tole on her as well as my sarcastic comments some of the time, I admit to being rude to her at times but we are young and 6 months isn't enough to call it quits in my book nor hers. I didn't come here looking for someone to convince me to get a divorce or sulk in a sexless marriage. I came here for help and I'm not so sure that's what you're here to provide.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She's also what, 20 years old? Full time student, PT job + drinking till 2am 4 nights a week should be no sweat. 

Son, you are at a crossroads here. Read Mem's post, do not get her pregnant for several years, work through these issues. Or, you are in for a world of misery...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nick,

Let me get this straight. You are a total bastard. A raging prick. 

But ummm - she desperately wants to make a baby with you....

Here's the deal. If you fail this IQ test - you will live a long sexless life. Good luck. 




Nick0514 said:


> Ladies and gents what you've all been waiting for, I came home and had the talk with my wife about why it's on existent. I told her it angers me that she is selfish in the bedroom and that it makes a lot of the other situations in our marriage anger me easier, she said "I'm still very attracted to you so that isn't the case, I just don't like how mean you are to me, I just feel like you're rude 100% of the time, it leads to me not being in the mood even though I want that with you again."
> 
> What are your thoughts on her reply? I'm happy because she isn't a confrontational type of person and she really stepped it up and made me happy with a mature and honest response.
> 
> ...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Nick0514 said:


> Ladies and gents what you've all been waiting for, I came home and had the talk with my wife about why it's on existent. I told her it angers me that she is selfish in the bedroom and that it makes a lot of the other situations in our marriage anger me easier, she said "I'm still very attracted to you so that isn't the case, I just don't like how mean you are to me, I just feel like you're rude 100% of the time, it leads to me not being in the mood even though I want that with you again."
> 
> What are your thoughts on her reply? I'm happy because she isn't a confrontational type of person and she really stepped it up and made me happy with a mature and honest response.
> 
> ...


But, wait...I thought it was pain? So, it's not pain? Then why did she lie to you and say it was the pain that keeps her from wanting sex with you?

I bet kissing her azz 24/7 will result in a new excuse for not wanting sex unless she's ovulating.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Nick, make a plan here.

1. Get her to a doctor. Sex hurts and it shouldn't. Regardless of anything else in your relationship, that needs to get fixed.

2. You admit that you are at least sometimes rude to your wife. Figure out a way to stop that. Be a better person.

3. Wear a condom for the foreseeable future.

1 and 2 should take care of the major issues, and 3 is a safeguard for you to make sure they really ARE the major issues. It's that simple.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nick,

It is smart to carefully select your role models. So - I'm going to try to make this easy for you.

M2 and I have been together for 27 years - married for 25. Twenty seven mostly happy - very sexual years.

I've read a LOT of threads here - thousands of threads - near a hundred thousand posts. You are presenting as a classic higher IQ LOWER EQ partner. If you really want help - I can help you - but you need to start accepting reality.






Nick0514 said:


> I'm of being honest here, I feel as though you are downplaying and looking for the worst in people's marriages because yours didn't work out. My wife is a full time student, works a part time job and that can easily take a tole on her as well as my sarcastic comments some of the time, I admit to being rude to her at times but we are young and 6 months isn't enough to call it quits in my book nor hers. I didn't come here looking for someone to convince me to get a divorce or sulk in a sexless marriage. I came here for help and I'm not so sure that's what you're here to provide.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You are correct. Don't listen to me. I am bitter and take out my frustration on innocent posters. Listen to @MEM2020. He has a happy and sexually fulfilling marriage. He provides sage advice.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ask her, exactly *what treatment would result in sex 3-4 times a week* (or daily if you prefer). Tell her you need specifics. I doubt she will expect that and I doubt she'll have an answer. If she dies, comply for one week then tell her you expect sex how many ever times you specified. This will force her to take responsibility for her part, and you yiyrs


It's not a bargaining position for a fixed amount of sex issue, it's a "what needs to change for this to work between us" issue. Nor is 1 weeks compliance to be rewarded with the predetermined amount of sex "as stated in last weeks agreement Para 1.2 Sub-section b". All that does is fuel her seeing sex as a reward that she should only offer once he has complied with his part of the deal, and obviously withheld when he doesn't. 

They need to either have a relationship that works and a real marriage or split up and move on.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Nick0514 said:


> I'm of being honest here, I feel as though you are downplaying and looking for the worst in people's marriages because yours didn't work out. My wife is a full time student, works a part time job and that can easily take a tole on her *as well as my sarcastic comments* some of the time, *I admit to being rude to her at times but we are young* and 6 months isn't enough to call it quits in my book nor hers. I didn't come here looking for someone to convince me to get a divorce or sulk in a sexless marriage. I came here for help and I'm not so sure that's what you're here to provide.


If you are using sarcasm properly then both sides should see the humor in it, otherwise it is not sarcasm it's just nasty comments hidden by "I was only joking" that should never happen in any relationship.

As for the "being rude but we are young" bullsh1t. You were not too young to get married. Being rude to your spouse has nothing to do with your age and everything to do with your character. You're 24(?), you're not a child so learn how to behave like an adult. Get help if you need to.

Quite frankly I'm not surprised she doesn't want sex with you, who would ever want sex with someone that is rude to them?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In general I agree, saying things your partner doesn't like is never a good idea. 

That said and agreed to, there is a separate problem here: As far as we know, his behavior hasn't changed, but her's has. They had regular sex until they were married, then she stopped, except to get pregnant. That has all the hallmarks of a bait / switch. 

If his behavior was objectionable (and it may well be) she should have let him know BEFORE getting married. Its not fair to insist that someone change only after they have sworn a life-long commitment to you. 




WonkyNinja said:


> If you are using sarcasm properly then both sides should see the humor in it, otherwise it is not sarcasm it's just nasty comments hidden by "I was only joking" that should never happen in any relationship.
> 
> As for the "being rude but we are young" bullsh1t. You were not too young to get married. Being rude to your spouse has nothing to do with your age and everything to do with your character. You're 24(?), you're not a child so learn how to behave like an adult. Get help if you need to.
> 
> Quite frankly I'm not surprised she doesn't want sex with you, who would ever want sex with someone that is rude to them?


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

uhtred said:


> If his behavior was objectionable (and it may well be) she should have let him know BEFORE getting married. Its not fair to insist that someone change only after they have sworn a life-long commitment to you.


Have you met my XW by any chance? :smile2:


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

WonkyNinja said:


> It's not a bargaining position for a fixed amount of sex issue, it's a "what needs to change for this to work between us" issue. Nor is 1 weeks compliance to be rewarded with the predetermined amount of sex "as stated in last weeks agreement Para 1.2 Sub-section b". All that does is fuel her seeing sex as a reward that she should only offer once he has complied with his part of the deal, and obviously withheld when he doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> They need to either have a relationship that works and a real marriage or split up and move on.




You miss the point. OP's W is treating sex as a bargaining chip and OP has nothing to bargain with because he hasn't been told the rules. This method is HER method so at least they are playing the same game. And if you don't believe she's playing a game, then I thing you're naive.

She doesn't see her behavior as wrong. In my experience, treating someone the way they treat you is the best way to get people to realize when their behavior sucks.

My dad always said when someone hits you, hit them back harder. It's the law of the jungle. 

Ultimately sex should be part of a healthy relationship and not a bargaining chip. That's not are they're at.

I prefer to play the hand I'm dealt as best I can until a better table opens up. Certainly better then just ponying up the ante and not playing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You miss the point. OP's W is treating sex as a bargaining chip and OP has nothing to bargain with because he hasn't been told the rules. This method is HER method so at least they are playing the same game.


If he has a kid with her, he will have even less to bargain with. Then she owns him.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You miss the point. OP's W is treating sex as a bargaining chip and OP has nothing to bargain with because he hasn't been told the rules. This method is HER method so at least they are playing the same game. And if you don't believe she's playing a game, then I thing you're naive.
> 
> She doesn't see her behavior as wrong. In my experience, treating someone the way they treat you is the best way to get people to realize when their behavior sucks.
> 
> ...


I do get it but I'm not so sure about it being a game. I fully agree with you that she doesn't see her behavior as wrong.

To answer your point ..... asking "what do I have to do to get ....." is continuing her "game". She is in control and he is now on his knees begging for affection. She gets to state the conditions under which she will "grant" him sex and at the same time make him realize that he gets sex on her terms. 

If you want to avoid being hit then change the game. Make it as simple as "if you don't want the intimate relationship then you don't want a marriage". Failing medical or physical reasons you don't get the one without the other.

The above was my point of view until he admitted being sarcastic and rude to her. Up to then I would have said he deserved better.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think some people can behave in a way that has the effect of playing games, but have it not be intentional. There is not "plan" to control their partner, just a series of selfish decisions that end up having that effect 






WonkyNinja said:


> I do get it but I'm not so sure about it being a game. I fully agree with you that she doesn't see her behavior as wrong.
> 
> To answer your point ..... asking "what do I have to do to get ....." is continuing her "game". She is in control and he is now on his knees begging for affection. She gets to state the conditions under which she will "grant" him sex and at the same time make him realize that he gets sex on her terms.
> 
> ...


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## fabrauer (Oct 21, 2016)

The most repeated mistake individuals make in getting married that I have seen from firsthand stories through my own childhood friends is not waiting for the right person to get married to for the simple reason they enjoy being around you. Period. But what happens is one feels this is the best mate possible, now or never to get hitched, it's the thing to do, that ticking clock to have kids or one partner has secret hopes to think they can change their partner. I agree with the individual who says "get out". 


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

fabrauer said:


> The most repeated mistake individuals make in getting married that I have seen from firsthand stories through my own childhood friends is not waiting for the right person to get married to for the simple reason they enjoy being around you. Period. But what happens is one feels this is the best mate possible, now or never to get hitched, it's the thing to do, that ticking clock to have kids or one partner has secret hopes to think they can change their partner. I agree with the individual who says "get out".
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Interesting. Didn't really dawn on me. Dated 6 years because we were young and complete opposites. There were many times where I had doubts I am sure (it's been a long time and I don't recall how I actually felt). But I do know we waited until we knew we could grow old together.

Funny thing happened right after we were married. My W ran into my mom at the grocery store and made some comment (not really negative) and my mom snapped "you knew that when you married him!". We've laughed about that for decades. Yes, we knew what we were signing up for and did so willingly. 


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