# Wtf is divorce busting?



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

drifter777 said:


> Turning your back and walking away from a cheater in order to save your own self-esteem and sanity wasn't invented by anyone. I doubt they were the first to coin the phrase "180" but I suppose it is possible.


That is not what the 180 is. Nor does divorce busting encourage everyone to divorce a spouse who has cheated.

The 180 that is often talked about here (see link in my signature block) is from the Divorce Busting literature. It's not the term "180" that is from DB, it's the actual words in that particular list.

Also, if you were to read the actual DB book, she has a chapter on using the idea of a 180, behaving in a manner differently from what you spouse would expect. This is for situations where there is no cheating going on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jponce06 said:


> I read some of the forums on their site...*The WS come off as selfish me, me, me and I, I, I.* The BS so full of hope and grasping as straws. I've yet to see one work out for a paid service


LOL... do tell.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> That is not what the 180 is. Nor does divorce busting encourage everyone to divorce a spouse who has cheated.
> 
> The 180 that is often talked about here (see link in my signature block) is from the Divorce Busting literature. It's not the term "180" that is from DB, it's the actual words in that particular list.
> 
> Also, if you were to read the actual DB book, she has a chapter on using the idea of a 180, behaving in a manner differently from what you spouse would expect. This is for situations where there is no cheating going on.


My issue with DB version of 180 is due to the language they use it is clearly a strategy to use to win back WS - at least to the point of attempted R. I don't doubt that it works for some because it is built on a fundamental truth wherein if one partner moves away the other partner will pursue. Most shrinks will tell you this dynamic is continually happening in any relationship but, with infidelity, the stakes are much, much higher. Based on my experience, personal and otherwise, the fact that it is a strategy removes real-life emotion from it. When I did it, when my wife kicked me out for OM, I left and closed the door on her completely. I never even thought of playing the "pick me" dance - it absolutely never occurred to me to compete for a woman who had betrayed me to this degree. She made her choice and it would be a painful emotional waste of time to pursue her. My immediate goal was to heal and I dedicated myself to the path I thought would get me there the fastest and that path was ZERO CONTACT. When I left I told her to have our son ready for me to pick up every Friday at 6:00 PM and I would bring him back at 6:00 PM Sunday. Nothing more. When I picked him up I parked outside and honked the horn and he came out carrying an overnight bag and off we went. On Sunday I dropped him off and watched him enter the apartment and then drove off. 

I followed this path for me. I needed to emotionally detach from her and zero contact was the best way to accomplish that. Three weeks later she tricked me into coming in the the apartment and then begged on her knees for me to come back. Regrettably, I acquiesced for a lot of reasons - most of them based in being a spineless punk kid. To this day I believe that if she had waited even one more week, when she started begging I would have spit in her face and walked away. My heart was hardening, I was moving in the right direction and gaining momentum.

My point in this ugly story is that my 180 was focused solely on no contact. Other than curt conversation dealing purely with logistics related to my son, we were totally out of each others lives. So when I say 180 it is all about no contact and it means that one of you leave the residence immediately. If you are worried about legal issues related to leaving then see a lawyer the next day. But walking out for a night or two is fine - in fact encouraged by law enforcement when you believe one of you might go off if you stay in the residence. Once you are physically separated you block WS phone and do whatever you have to do to stay no contact. Find support. Throw yourself into your work. If you don't work find a place to volunteer and spend 12 hours a day working there. Be tired when you go to bed. Keep reassuring yourself that you are taking the best course of action for YOURSELF. After a week your days & nights will be a little easier. Another week and you will realize that you are beginning to detach and that you can do this. From there it gets better every day.

Now, if you have kids you have to modify the plan and have some contact - but only what is necessary. Remember, you are not punishing WS with this behavior but saving yourself. WS will say that their cheating "had nothing to do with you" - we hear that line all the time. Well, your recovery has nothing to do with WS. Detachment is your immediate goal and you need to remain focused on it. 

As you march toward divorce you will force the ultimate choice of which path you are going to take - R or D. When you get to that fateful fork in the road of life you want to make the decision based on what's best for you...without fear or guilt influencing you. It happens like this: when you get close to the court date or mediation you will know whether R is even a possibility. If WS has not found a way to throw themselves at your feet and beg for a second chance by that time - ending the marriage is a foregone conclusion. If they have done the begging then you've already made your decision on R or D.

Of course this is not easy but what about being a BS is? One of the many (IMO) advantages to this course of action is that the gradual detachment clears your mind and hardens your heart to reality. Both of these will give BS a much better chance of making the decisions that are best for them.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Drifter, the 180 isn't solely about going no contact. The gist of it that you focus on your self instead. The no contact is just a side benefit. The idea is that if you focus on your self, you will become more aware of the short comings of yourself or the relationship and address whichever or both if need be. 
The reason it fails a lot is because most people miss that crucial element of the 180. They break contact and then go about doing the same old same old as if they weren't to blame at all. The reality is that even in the cases of cheating, the cheating is NOT the underlying issue, rather it is the result of the underlying issue. That is NOT to blame the person cheated upon, but to recognize there were already issues within the relationship prior to the cheating having taken place. None of us is perfect, each of us bears responsibility for our selves. The real purpose of the 180 is to regain that so that we can move forward (either with our SO or apart) as a self responsible person.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Drifter, the 180 isn't solely about going no contact. The gist of it that you focus on your self instead. The no contact is just a side benefit. The idea is that if you focus on your self, you will become more aware of the short comings of yourself or the relationship and address whichever or both if need be.
> The reason it fails a lot is because most people miss that crucial element of the 180. They break contact and then go about doing the same old same old as if they weren't to blame at all. The reality is that even in the cases of cheating, *the cheating is NOT the underlying issue, rather it is the result of the underlying issue. *That is NOT to blame the person cheated upon, but to recognize there were already issues within the relationship prior to the cheating having taken place. None of us is perfect, each of us bears responsibility for our selves. The real purpose of the 180 is to regain that so that we can move forward (either with our SO or apart) as a self responsible person.


IMO it is zero contact that is the cornerstone of the 180. As far as the bolded statement, we just disagree. The cheating throws a grenade into the marriage whether there were problems in it or not. How many times have you heard the expression "cheating happens in good marriages too" or the best "the cheating had nothing to do with the BS" ? Each of these statements are part of the cornerstone of many reconciliation recipes and neither of them include the BS bearing responsibility for the affair. You can't have it both ways.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

drifter777 said:


> IMO it is zero contact that is the cornerstone of the 180. As far as the bolded statement, we just disagree. The cheating throws a grenade into the marriage whether there were problems in it or not. How many times have you heard the expression "cheating happens in good marriages too" or the best "the cheating had nothing to do with the BS" ? Each of these statements are part of the cornerstone of many reconciliation recipes and neither of them include the BS bearing responsibility for the affair. You can't have it both ways.


Respectfully, I disagree. If that is your opinion of the 180, that may be why you feel it is a waste of time. It does you no good to simply turn from your SO and ignore them if you aren't going to focus on yourself. The whole purpose of the 180 is take your focus off another and place it on yourself. Removing that external focus is only the first step in the process. If you stopped there, it is no wonder that you may have failed. You must build upon that first step by then placing your focus on YOU.

In regards to cheating, no I have never heard those comments. If you have it is probably just someone trying to soothe your wounded ego. Cheating does NOT happen in a good marriage. Cheating happens because there are already underlying problems that allow the idea of cheating to germinate. Happily married spouses (aka those in a "good marriage") aren't looking for another relationship, they don't even entertain the idea of being with another. If they are looking or entertaining the thought, then the marriage wasn't as "happy" as they imagine it to be. There is(are) some issue(s) causing them to fall out of love, destroy the trust, or otherwise undermine the marriage. Cheating is the symptom of these issues, not the cause of them. Even in cases where the spouse cheats just because they are selfish (actually greedy) narcissitic or worse just weak - those are still issues! They may the cheating spouse issues, but they became your issues when you married them.

The fact is if your spouse is or was cheating - you were NOT in a happy marriage. No matter what you imagine - your marriage was NOT a happy or healthy one. Otherwise the cheating would not have happened. Even when the cheater is just weak - they are part of the foundation of a healthy marriage. Nothing lasting can be built upon unstable ground. Your part in that may only consist of the fact that YOU overlooked the flaw. Or you may not have seen the flaw.

Which is why the purpose of the 180 is to remove that from your life, so that you can learn the lesson of this event in your life. You can't change how someone else thinks, you can't change how someone else acts. You can only control yourself. In the case of cheating and/or divorce, you can let it define you and remain bitter and angry for the rest of your life you can accept the lesson and become a better, more well rounded, happier and healthier person because of it.

In regards to reconciliation - just like any type of relationship it takes two to make it work. The statements that you quoted as the "cornerstone" of reconciliation are not part of any recipe for a successful reconciliation. In fact they would only resonate with a truly needy or weak person themselves. One who refuses to see reality and would rather gloss it over with pablum because they are desperate to save a marriage. We see that sometimes here on TAM as well. Most of us see the train wreck that is coming.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jponce06 said:


> I read some of the forums on their site...The WS come off as selfish me, me, me and I, I, I. The BS so full of hope and grasping as straws. I've yet to see one work out for a paid service


*I don't really care what site is frequented!

No matter how extreme nor mundane their situation really is, a WS is going to come off using that self-justified persona, no matter what! 

Sadly, but the words "sorry" or "remorse" are not to be found anywhere in their limited vocabulary!

Sorry, but I believe that it's only the nature of the beast!*


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Respectfully, I disagree. If that is your opinion of the 180, that may be why you feel it is a waste of time. It does you no good to simply turn from your SO and ignore them if you aren't going to focus on yourself. The whole purpose of the 180 is take your focus off another and place it on yourself. Removing that external focus is only the first step in the process. If you stopped there, it is no wonder that you may have failed. You must build upon that first step by then placing your focus on YOU.
> 
> In regards to cheating, no I have never heard those comments. If you have it is probably just someone trying to soothe your wounded ego. Cheating does NOT happen in a good marriage. Cheating happens because there are already underlying problems that allow the idea of cheating to germinate. Happily married spouses (aka those in a "good marriage") aren't looking for another relationship, they don't even entertain the idea of being with another. If they are looking or entertaining the thought, then the marriage wasn't as "happy" as they imagine it to be. There is(are) some issue(s) causing them to fall out of love, destroy the trust, or otherwise undermine the marriage. Cheating is the symptom of these issues, not the cause of them. Even in cases where the spouse cheats just because they are selfish (actually greedy) narcissitic or worse just weak - those are still issues! They may the cheating spouse issues, but they became your issues when you married them.
> 
> ...


So you are disagreeing with hundreds of counselors and experts who say that even good marriages experience infidelity. That most cheaters say they still love their spouse, are satisfied with their marriage and have no desire to leave the marriage. And you say you've never heard of such a thing? Or that cheaters often tell their BS "the affair had nothing to do with you"? If you are truly saying you haven't heard of these things then you have no experience with infidelity - personally or even read about it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

drifter777 said:


> So you are disagreeing with hundreds of counselors and experts who say that even good marriages experience infidelity. That most cheaters say they still love their spouse, are satisfied with their marriage and have no desire to leave the marriage. And you say you've never heard of such a thing? Or that cheaters often tell their BS "the affair had nothing to do with you"? If you are truly saying you haven't heard of these things then you have no experience with infidelity - personally or even read about it.


Yep because I don't think that hundreds of counselors and experts say that even good marriages experience infidelity. In fact I would be willing to bet that they would all agree that infidelity isn't part of a good marriage and therefore could never happen in a good marriage. In good marriages, people are NOT out looking to get some strange. In a good marriage they are happy with what they have, otherwise it wouldn't be a good marriage.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Ynot said:


> In good marriages, people are NOT out looking to get some strange. In a good marriage they are happy with what they have, otherwise it wouldn't be a good marriage.


Did it ever occur to you that maybe a good person was told everything they wanted to hear and was duped into marry a POS? That one person took their vows seriously and the other had no intention of staying faithful? Of course, good marriages don't have spouses trolling for sex but that doesn't mean the other spouse nessasarly did ANYTHING to warrant that kind of behavior from the other person. It means their marriage isn't good because unbeknownst to them, they married a lying POS who wanted the stability of marriage with a little side action that they planned to keep on the down low.

Some people are simply INCAPABLE of being monogamous. These kind of marriage do exist FYI.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> Did it ever occur to you that maybe a good person was told everything they wanted to hear and was duped into marry a POS? That one person took their vows seriously and the other had no intention of staying faithful? Of course, good marriages don't have spouses trolling for sex but that doesn't mean the other spouse nessasarly did ANYTHING to warrant that kind of behavior from the other person. It means their marriage isn't good because unbeknownst to them, they married a lying POS who wanted the stability of marriage with a little side action that they planned to keep on the down low.
> 
> Some people are simply INCAPABLE of being monogamous. These kind of marriage do exist FYI.


The example you gave is NOT an example of a good marriage, now is it? The BS may be blissfully ignorant but that doesn't mean there are aren't still issues - they just aren't being recognized by the BS. Besides, no one is blaming the BS for the actions of their SO, so is there some point to your post?


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