# To block or not?



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Last weekend I was headed out of town for a couple of days. I left on Friday and was going to come home on Sunday. My wife was glad I left to go out of town. I knew that there may be a reason I might come home on Saturday. 

I call her on Saturday morning. She's nice and jolly. She asked me what time I'm coming home on Sunday. I felt a strange feeling in my gut. I ask her what are her plans for Sat. Night? She's says she's going to just sleep all afternoon and night. I decided to BLOCK. I told her I'm coming home. She blew a gasket. She says the house is not clean. She hasn't had a shower. And tells me I really need to stay another day. I left and got home 4 hrs later. She decided to take a shower get ready and go out to the game with her friends before I got there. She was pissed that I came home early. No sex for me that night. 

My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

IT depends on your conscience. It is a decision you have to make. If you really think something is going on you may have stopped it today just to be rescheduled later. Or she really didn't go to the game. I would try and contact her friend. See if she is really where she says she is. Otherwise I doubt if she planned her day out that she would just end everything because you came home. She probably just changed venues.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Wait a second, your the BS and she was pissed because you called and came home sooner than she thought you would and wasn't there when you got home. Then she really had plans to go out with her friends but told you she was staying home and going to sleep all day do nothing that night? is that right?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

badbane said:


> IT depends on your conscience. It is a decision you have to make. If you really think something is going on you may have stopped it today just to be rescheduled later. Or she really didn't go to the game. I would try and contact her friend. See if she is really where she says she is. Otherwise I doubt if she planned her day out that she would just end everything because you came home. She probably just changed venues.


I thought about that. I think she went to the game just to spite me. Makes me wonder. I kept asking for the score, during the game, and she replied with the right answers.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sounds like you put a damper on her plans.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I would probably have more been the guy to say, "I'll be home around 2pm Sunday."

Then drive to get home by 9pm Saturday.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

strugglinghusband said:


> Wait a second, your the BS and she was pissed because you called and came home sooner than she thought you would and wasn't there when you got home. Then she really had plans to go out with her friends but told you she was staying home and going to sleep all day do nothing that night? is that right?


I'm not sure what her real plans were. But yes. Was it the right move to block?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> I would probably have more been the guy to say, "I'll be home around 2pm Sunday."
> 
> Then drive to get home by 9pm Saturday.


So no block.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

I don't mean to be flippant, but when you stay with a serial cheater who has shown little to no remorse, then this is the life you have chosen to live.

You shouldn't be surprised. Cheaters cheat and I have seen nothing in your posts that indicate that she has shown any remorse and change.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Block or no block, the point is it's your house and you can roll up whenever you please.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you wanted to see what she was doing you shouldn't have warned her.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> So no block.


Nope.

That's just encouraging the dance to continue. You might stop the song but another one is ready to play.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I would have shown up at home unannounced.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Looks like the consensus is not to block and try to catch her in the act. Whether its innocent or not.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

Either way, you were lied to. She said she was staying home, but didn't.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

dormant said:


> Either way, you were lied to. She said she was staying home, but didn't.


She was pissed I came home early. I still can't figure that out. I would think a wife would be glad to see her husband home early?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

No block. Bring friends to kick the OM out of your home. you DONT want to see your wife getting it from another man!

No confrontation. Arrange another trip then arrive early or have a friend or PI watch her. Var the car and the house.

If you hear the other man in the VAR stop listening and have a trusted friend listen to the VAR for you. Even hearing her moan with another man inside her will eff you up big time.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I would never have told her. A spouse in true R will never have a problem with you coming home early. What, you've never seen her needing a shower or with a dirty house? 

Neh, wrong response.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Going to get a couple VARs. I almost wish I find something. After all I've been through there would be very little pain. Mostly relief.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> I would probably have more been the guy to say, "I'll be home around 2pm Sunday."
> 
> Then drive to get home by 9pm Saturday.


I remember a life time ago doing that with my ex-wife when I was away, something told me to get my ass home ASAP, called from down the street at seven am to check in pretending to still be away, she sounded all weird, so I cruised down the road on my bike, hit the kill button and drifted up the drive and noticed a car sitting in the drive, was not mine nor my wife's, walked over to it felt the hood, was cold the car had been there for awhile.

I snuck up the steps, slipped key in the door stepped into the kitchen and bam, some dude (casual friend of mine) and my wife are sitting at the kitchen table, looked like they had just got up..got ugly real fast, oh they tried to explain it away, nothing happened etc up until I started cleaning his clock, then the truth came pouring out, he blamed her, she blamed him, it was actually funny in a sick way watching them throw one another under the bus.....


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I did ask here Sunday. "So tell me what's really going on?" "Do I need to check up on you again?" She said "Go ahead I don't have anything to hide." I said "I don't need your permission to check into anything you might have going on" she didn't even respond to that.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> Going to get a couple VARs. I almost wish I find something. After all I've been through there would be very little pain. Mostly relief.



Why do you keep putting yourself through this?

Are you going to do anything different if you catch her again?

This is why it's so hard to stay married for the kids and a little passionless intercourse. You know she will cheat again and trying to prevent it will drive you crazy.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Made a mistake here Brains.

Rushing back like that under the circumstances you gave, makes you look paranoid, fearful, and weak BECAUSE you told her first.

If your alarm bells went off, you have just come home unannounced to see if your gut was right.

Now, you have no confirmation on your gut instincts at all AND a pissed off W who has probably lost respect for your after your panicked behavior.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LostCPA said:


> Are you going to do anything different if you catch her again?


Yes ... I'm out.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> She was pissed I came home early. I still can't figure that out. I would think a wife would be glad to see her husband home early?


It's pretty obvious...she's pissed because she didn't want you to be home.

She wanted you gone for a longer period of time...obviously.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Based on what you've posted on here previously, why do you care what she does? I thought you let go of all this for the children? Had you caught her, would you have divorced her?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> Based on what you've posted on here previously, why do you care what she does? I thought you let go of all this for the children? Had you caught her, would you have divorced her?


Yes. I did let go for my kids. My kids are older now. If she is cheating again its a done deal.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LostCPA said:


> I don't mean to be flippant, but when you stay with a serial cheater who has shown little to no remorse, then this is the life you have chosen to live.
> 
> You shouldn't be surprised. Cheaters cheat and I have seen nothing in your posts that indicate that she has shown any remorse and change.


Now many of us are fully expecting this from being around sites like this one. Your right. And each action brings a greater disrespect and increase in entitlement. Stay if you like the drama, or unless you really are working it out and getting help in recovery. Otherwise as LostCPA points out, look for it to get even worse.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Made a mistake here Brains.
> 
> Rushing back like that under the circumstances you gave, makes you look paranoid, fearful, and weak BECAUSE you told her first.
> 
> ...


At this point, who cares if she's pissed off or lost respect...Brains needs to get pissed off here, right quick.

I agree that you shouldn't have told her you were coming home.

OP, you must not want to catch her...you just want to kockblock her? Don't tip your hand next time if you actually want to catch her...otherwise, she'll just deny and call you crazy.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

You know it's just hard for me to believe. She's not nearly as attractive as she was during her last PA.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> You know it's just hard for me to believe. She's not nearly as attractive as she was during her last PA.


Ya, but there are men that will fawk anything.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> You know it's just hard for me to believe. She's not nearly as attractive as she was during her last PA.


It ain't about attractiveness. It's about fantasy f-cking. It's the taboo that makes it attractive. Hell, my wife is pretty damn hot. The joker she was banging was as skinny as gumby and has the demeaner of a squirrel.

Looks has zip to do with it.


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## broken1477 (Jun 4, 2013)

Definitely would set the stage to catch her in the act. It may be difficult to face, but you will, at least, be able to put all doubts aside and be able to move forward. Living in fear of what may be happening is much worse than dealing with what is happening. If you feel you have to block your wife and you seriously don't trust her, why continue putting yourself through this?


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> She was pissed I came home early. I still can't figure that out. I would think a wife would be glad to see her husband home early?


Unless you spoiled her date with her boyfriend.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Unless you spoiled her date with her boyfriend.


Is it _that_ obvious that a guy named Mr. Brains would NOT know that.

Yet asks the rhetorical question, why?!

Seriously, Brain-man...did you NOT know what was going on?



I apologize for the harsh tone, I honestly wanna know where you are with this sh-t storm.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Is it _that_ obvious that a guy named Mr. Brains would NOT know that.
> 
> Yet asks the rhetorical question, why?!
> 
> ...


I know what has gone on. But that's behind me. I really don't know for sure what's going on now. If anything. It just hit me kinda strange. It does fit her MO for a PA. See I didn't make plans to go out of town til Friday 4 hours before I left. That's what really got me thinking about her actions. She would have had to make emergency plans and then cancel them when I came home early. Which is why I think she was pissed. 

No there was no indication before Friday that anything could be wrong.


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Looks like the consensus is not to block and try to catch her in the act. Whether its innocent or not.


Yes, I agree with that...but what in the world could be innocent about it...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I know what has gone on. But that's behind me. I really don't know for sure what's going on now. If anything. It just hit me kinda strange. It does fit her MO for a PA. See I didn't make plans to go out of town til Friday 4 hours before I left. That's what really got me thinking about her actions. She would have had to make emergency plans and then cancel them when I came home early. Which is why I think she was pissed.
> 
> No there was no indication before Friday that anything could be wrong.


Then it's time to TAM it up.

Play coy. Don't let on.

And f'ng watch.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Make more plans to go out of town if you want a faster answer than waiting around. 

Give her the opportunity to cheat and see if she will. I think that would give you your answer. Especially now with their plans ruined, W and OM (if there is one) are probably burning up because the party got canceled. This is when they make mistakes, when they can't wait. 

Heck, VAR the house, make plans for friday, let her know and leave. Go visit a friend 2 hours away or something. Who care. Just make it in advance so she has plenty of time to co-ordinate with any potential APs. Let the VARs do their work and see what she says when you're away. Cut your trip short and come back. Unannounced. "I thought i'd surprise you with flowers honey!" 


This situation warrants a follow up. 

WWs and OM HAVE TO communicate to cheat. If she's cheating figure out how they're communicating.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

What a fing b***h!!! She's made me angry. What a work of fart. Just reading this makes me want to kick her azz.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Looks like the consensus is not to block and try to catch her in the act. Whether its innocent or not.


You have to be careful with this one though because if it is innocent you then put her on high alert. You have to be sure when you make your move to surprise her.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Going to get a couple VARs. I almost wish I find something. After all I've been through there would be very little pain. Mostly relief.


Dear Mr. Brains,

in a previous thread you said, "She is not calling any shots. I call the shots. They may not be the shots you would call but I very well call them. If you ask her she would tell you the same."

Since you call the shots, why not just call foul and divorce the woman? You certainly have cause and I gather from your most recent words that you're a lot less forgiving of her many affairs than you once were.

You've done your bit, stayed for your kids, swallowed your pride, etc. Maybe now is the time to do something for yourself and move on. Then you won't have to worry about what she's doing when you're out of town.

Just suggesting you think about it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Believe me I'm thinking about it. I'm going to be careful and coy. Not jumping to conclusions.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sony VAR ICDPX312. Accept no less. 50 bucks a piece at Best Buy.

BTW if she brings him home stop listening before you hear her moaning with another man inside her. Knowing she is cheating will screw you up. hearing her do it will screw you up 100 times worse. have a trusted friend listen and give a transcript.

If you need noise clean up use audacity. Its free from the internet. It can do pretty good on some VAR work I have cleaned up for others.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Brains, you really are a glutton for punishment. IF the kids are older and have left the nest don't stay with her, she's a serial cheater. You need to read those good books they recommend here.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Sony VAR ICDPX312. Accept no less. 50 bucks a piece at Best Buy.
> 
> BTW if she brings him home stop listening before you hear her moaning with another man inside her. Knowing she is cheating will screw you up. hearing her do it will screw you up 100 times worse. have a trusted friend listen and give a transcript.
> 
> If you need noise clean up use audacity. Its free from the internet. It can do pretty good on some VAR work I have cleaned up for others.


Have you used a VAR in your situation? And did it confirm to you the results that you just knew could not be true?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> You know it's just hard for me to believe. She's not nearly as attractive as she was during her last PA.


To....you.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Looks like the consensus is not to block and try to catch her in the act. Whether its innocent or not.


Really...you aren't living up to your avatar. What are the chances of it being innocent?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You have blown your wad already. She will be suspicous.

So

Plan A: you plan three trips and you give a schedule of when you leave and return. You do NOT change your plans one iota. Figure the screwing she might do is the price you pay for not doing this right the first time. Leave VARs around, but don't change your schedule.

It's AFTER those trips that you suddenly have SOMEONE show up. Or you can leave nanny cams if you want to do something faster. She needs to feel secure again.

Plan B: You give her a nice new iPhone chock full of all kinds of aps...and a few for you too.

But the disingenuous way you are asking the questions makes me very much doubt that you really want to 'catch' her.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> You have blown your wad already. She will be suspicous.
> 
> So
> 
> ...


She has a Galaxy V i think. I wish there were a way to get deleted messages from it. After her last EA she's a deleter. I busted her on Facebook last time and confronted the OM. That was about 3-4 years ago I think.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Have you used a VAR in your situation? And did it confirm to you the results that you just knew could not be true?


Got 2 yesterday. Look to get them in place later today.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Brains, you really are a glutton for punishment. IF the kids are older and have left the nest don't stay with her, she's a serial cheater. You need to read those good books they recommend here.


I have read them. They are good. Not all my kids have left the nest yet.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, you did not do your avatar any justice there. 



> You wonder why I'm still married to her? It's not simple. She has diagnosed mental disorders. ( can't D in this state) She has told me on many occasions if I left she would bring women over. With my kids this was no option either. Now I have always gotten sex from her. It's not passionate but it's sex and its often.
> Right now we own a medical software biz that's doing very very well.
> My thoughts are... Who to say the next one would be any better. I'm happy enough. No money problems.
> I tell you guys this so you can see there is light at the end of the tunnel. Even though the tunnel can be longer than you wish it to be. I am a better man through it all. I'm 49 and healthy.


Be smart next time if you intend to catch her. But if you are ok with a semi open marriage, that is your call. Why should she even change ? 
What does she think would happen next time you catch her ? Does she think that you will dump her ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

strugglinghusband said:


> I remember a life time ago doing that with my ex-wife when I was away, something told me to get my ass home ASAP, called from down the street at seven am to check in pretending to still be away, she sounded all weird, so I cruised down the road on my bike, hit the kill button and drifted up the drive and noticed a car sitting in the drive, was not mine nor my wife's, walked over to it felt the hood, was cold the car had been there for awhile.
> 
> I snuck up the steps, slipped key in the door stepped into the kitchen and bam, some dude (casual friend of mine) and my wife are sitting at the kitchen table, looked like they had just got up..got ugly real fast, oh they tried to explain it away, nothing happened etc up until I started cleaning his clock, then the truth came pouring out, he blamed her, she blamed him, it was actually funny in a sick way watching them throw one another under the bus.....


I would pay to watch this


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Have you used a VAR in your situation? And did it confirm to you the results that you just knew could not be true?


No voice for me. My wife "only" had an email EA and I caught it JUST as it was getting into inappropriate bonding. I crushed it utterly tho I do monitor.

I have done VAR work for 3 men so far here. None have released me from confidentiality so no names. They did not want to listen so I did and gave reports. I have done clean up of noise like engines etc. I am also adept at reading between the lines of how people say things in addition to what they say. Many years of sales... I read people... constantly... I cant even turn it off any more.

Anyway. 3 for 3 in cheating on the var work I have done. Only 1 direct moaning while another is inside her. People think its a thrill. Its boring as hell. Im just not an audio sex guy. ITs my pay it forward. It does not make me happy per se but gives me a good feeling that I am helping a fellow man out of a deep valley in their lives. 

Since my wife only had an EA and it only involved email, I only trigger when she is either emailing or says something dumb that reminds me of it. (saying something dumb=I knew she was on cityville and I looked at the screen just to look at the city. she said "snooping?" OH MAN That pissed me off HARD! cause yes when I found that email I did snoop her email HARD and found out she was lying about how long the contact was tho it had just gotten inappropriate) Thus I am ideal for this work since I am immune to it. Remember the 90s and phone sex? I never understood that. The only audio that turns me on is when my wife says something direct like "Im horny". Moaning... Unless its me causing it... means nothing.

Reports I do look like (this not real var work I have done)
0:10:54 wifename Hi dooshbagotherman! I love you
0:11:30 wifename dooshbagotherman, I love it when you touch me there
0:11:45 [sound best estimated at as kissing lasting 19 seconds]
blah blah
0:15:16 [soft moaning from wifename]
0:19:18 [loud ah ah ah best estimated as wifename climax lasting 25 seconds]
blah blah
0:24:45 wifename Where are my panties?
blah blah

One only wanted an executive version of basically "phone conversation confirms sex on night of July 9, 1992" at 0:16:53 on file xyz123.mp3

Anyway the Sonys have b+ sound but can go at least 25 hours in voice activated mode with lithium batteries. zooms are better sound quality but go only like 3 hours so are almost worthless for our work here

Oh one tip: Use good headphones. They help a ton.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I would block with a vengeance; it would border on stalking and confrontation. I would not make it easy for her or the OM. The end result would be she stops or she leaves me, but she is not entitled to do what she wants, when she wants (at least when it comes to this stuff). So block.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> She has a Galaxy V i think. I wish there were a way to get deleted messages from it. After her last EA she's a deleter. I busted her on Facebook last time and confronted the OM. That was about 3-4 years ago I think.


Tell her you consider deletion to be guilty. How can you trust in transparency if she's not transparent?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Excuse me - she deletes everything from her phone?? She IS the cheater, right? Why do you allow this behaviour?? There is absolutely no way she should be deleting anything. Her life needs to be a totally open book to you. EVERYthing.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Excuse me - she deletes everything from her phone?? She IS the cheater, right? Why do you allow this behaviour?? There is absolutely no way she should be deleting anything. Her life needs to be a totally open book to you. EVERYthing.


He doesn't want to rock the boat, hence he doesn't enforce boundaries. He still feels that he is missing out on something but it isn't bothering him enough to actually be effective in his actions regarding his wife.

OP, you are both playing games, doing one upsmanship. That's nice on sitcoms...it isn't a very satisfactory life.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I know it's basicaly a theradjack. I resisted until know before asking, I didn't want to push you to disclose what you didn't want to.
I understand if you don't want to respond this but I believe it can possibly help us to put in to context your wife behavior.
What kind of mental issues are you talking about? Bipolar? Sex abuse related? Personality disorder traits?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

JCD said:


> OP, you are both playing games, doing one upsmanship. That's nice on sitcoms...it isn't a very satisfactory life.


It *never *helped on 'Everyone Loves Raymond'.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> It *never *helped on 'Everyone Loves Raymond'.


Isn't it Every*body* Loves Raymond? Or am I out to lunch?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I would block with a vengeance; it would border on stalking and confrontation. I would not make it easy for her or the OM. The end result would be she stops or she leaves me, but she is not entitled to do what she wants, when she wants (at least when it comes to this stuff). So block.


This was my thought process and why I blocked. I was in protect marriage mode.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Isn't it Every*body* Loves Raymond? Or am I out to lunch?


It probably is cuz *I'm* out to lunch! Mmmm...Buffalo wing pizza!!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I wish it was lunchtime here. It's only 9:45.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> This was my thought process and why I blocked. I was in protect marriage mode.


Did you block it to continue the dance? I mean, catching her in the act would put an end to it and it has been shown countless times that people sometimes _need_ continued conflict in their lives. Is that what you're doing?

I mean, it'd be a terrible shock to you to have to end it all wouldn't it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MrBrains, I just want to say that I love your avatar. It's awesome.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> Last weekend I was headed out of town for a couple of days. I left on Friday and was going to come home on Sunday. My wife was glad I left to go out of town. I knew that there may be a reason I might come home on Saturday.
> 
> I call her on Saturday morning. She's nice and jolly. She asked me what time I'm coming home on Sunday. I felt a strange feeling in my gut. I ask her what are her plans for Sat. Night? She's says she's going to just sleep all afternoon and night. I decided to BLOCK. I told her I'm coming home. She blew a gasket. She says the house is not clean. She hasn't had a shower. And tells me I really need to stay another day. I left and got home 4 hrs later. She decided to take a shower get ready and go out to the game with her friends before I got there. She was pissed that I came home early. No sex for me that night.
> 
> My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part?


I am not a BS. But if I thought there was something possibly going on I would have surprised her.

Now you actually know she lied to you. She went out. She can claim your coming home changed that but, how in the world is it ok for you to come home and for her to leave? NFW.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Yes. I did let go for my kids. My kids are older now. If she is cheating again its a done deal.


So maybe in hindsight "letting go" wasn't the best course of action to take huh?


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> This was my thought process and why I blocked. I was in protect marriage mode.


What exactly are you protecting?

You have basically accepted an open marriage so she appears to be acting accordingly. You have never enforced boundaries, i.e. no consequences to her cheating, so why would she ever change?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LostCPA said:


> What exactly are you protecting?
> 
> You have basically accepted an open marriage so she appears to be acting accordingly. You have never enforced boundaries, i.e. no consequences to her cheating, so why would she ever change?


I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bfree said:


> so maybe in hindsight "letting go" wasn't the best course of action to take huh?


20/20


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


Sure, she may not want to lose you. And right now she knows she won't, either. She knows you'll just continue allowing her to do whatever she wants.

Why do you allow her to delete anything on her phone?? That right there is sending her this message.


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Did you block it to continue the dance? I mean, catching her in the act would put an end to it and it has been shown countless times that people sometimes _need_ continued conflict in their lives. Is that what you're doing?
> 
> I mean, it'd be a terrible shock to you to have to end it all wouldn't it?


No and No


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: To block or not?*



MrBrains said:


> I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


Apparently she's not that worried about consequences or losing you. She deletes her information, hides her communications, goes out just to spite you, lies to you. And you do nothing. Yeah she's scared.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

The VAR is a good first step but it you are still trying to figure out what is going on. GPS in the car and key logger on the computer. I would have told her I would be home on Sunday and sat at the corner to see if someone showed up or she left and then confronted.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Why do you allow her to delete anything on her phone?? That right there is sending her this message.


What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


If she was worried about losing you, she would have quit cheating after the first couple of guys.

she has learned through your behavior that she can do whatever she wants and you will just sweep it under the rug and move on with the marriage.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I really hope you are seeing the toxic environment you have created by your rugsweeping and that you are ready to actually hold her accountable for her actions.


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

mahike said:


> The VAR is a good first step but it you are still trying to figure out what is going on. GPS in the car and key logger on the computer. I would have told her I would be home on Sunday and sat at the corner to see if someone showed up or she left and then confronted.


My son with me. I had to be careful.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

More rugsweeeping and enabling. She gave up her right to privacy when she abused you and your marriage with her serial cheating.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


No. Actually, the bathroom is pretty much the only place where privacy should really be in a marriage like this.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


I think better questions are, 1)Why does she feel the need to delete anything from her phone? 2) Why is this not a big red flag for you?

Not saying she is hiding anything, but why after her affair take the chance and raise suspicions by deleting.

Transparency....


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


So you allow her the freedom to hide as much as she wants. How's that working out for you?

Try this instead.


Current Honesty_The Policy of Radical Honesty

Current Honesty

Reveal information about the events of your
day. Provide your spouse with a calendar
of your activities, with special emphasis on
those that may affect your spouse.
After six years of marriage, Ed discovered that it was easier to have a sexual relationship with a woman at the office than with his wife, Jennifer. As a result, he found Peggy a welcome solution to his sexual frustration. He spent time alone with her several times a week, and their sexual relationships was as fulfilling as he could have ever imagined.

Ed justified this infidelity by assuming he was doing Jennifer a favor by not imposing his sexual requirements upon her. Whenever Jennifer wanted to make love to him, he happily accommodated her, but she didn't feel a sexual need more than once or twice a month.

Ed didn't want to share information about his daily activities with Jennifer, since honesty would have ruined any hope of continuing this very satisfying solution. Moreover, the announcement of this relationship would have upset her. He still loved her very much and would not have wanted to put her through the grief of such a disclosure. So to preserve a temporary solution to his problem and to keep Jennifer from experiencing intense emotional pain, he felt that dishonesty was justified.

In good marriages, couples become so interdependent that sharing a daily schedule is essential to their coordination of activities. But in weak marriages, couples are reluctant to provide their schedules, because they are often engaged in an assortment of Love Busters. They may know that their spouses would object to their activities, so they tell themselves, What they don't know won't hurt them. They have what I call a "secret second life."

But there are many who really have nothing to hide; yet they feel the need for privacy. They are offended when their spouse asks where they've been or what they've done. They feel that their spouse should trust them, and not assume the worst.

I'm dead-set against privacy in marriage, because it creates an unnecessary barrier to problem solving. When you and your spouse married, two became one. That means that prior to marriage, you had no one but yourself to consider when you made choices, and now you have each other to consider. There should be no part of your life that is off limits to your spouse, because literally everything that either of you do will ultimately affect each other. Privacy breeds incompatibility because it represents a part of your life that is off limits to accommodation.

Even when activities are innocent, it's extremely important for your spouse to understand what you do with your time. Be easy to check up on and find in an emergency. Give each other your daily schedules so you can communicate about how you spend your time. Since almost every thing you do will affect your spouse, it is important to explain what it is you do.

If Jennifer and Ed had established a habit of exchanging daily information early in their marriage, his affair would have been almost impossible to arrange. And if they had negotiated with the Policy of Joint Agreement, his sexual problem would have been addressed and resolved.

Honesty is a terrific way to protect your spouse from potentially damaging activities. By knowing that you'll be telling your spouse what you've been up to, you're far less likely to get either of you into trouble._


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> What? We are adults. Maybe I should not allow her to go to the bathroom until she asks....geez.


Hoo boy. You REALLY need to do some more reading around here.

When someone cheats, they have given up their right to privacy for years to come, if they want to take an honest shot at R. The BS MUST have complete and total transparency from the WS. Not only should the BS expect this, but the WS should offer it WILLINGLY. Most WS's will not do so initially, but once the BS lets the WS know how important this is, if the WS balks, it's only because they have not stopped cheating.

Seriously, dude, read the newbie link in my signature. Over and over till you get it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't quite understand this idea that she can be held accountable. I don't think she will realize she can be held accountable and that there are consequences until she cares about the consequences.
> 
> That's the reason I thought it best to suggest Mr. Brains live his life for himself, caring for his children and himself and including her as if she were a part of a "real" open marriage. Leave her out of the most important decisions. Make them on your own. Ask her opinion on the small things and parts of the big ones, but make the final decision and take the action on your own.
> 
> I think it will strengthen your resolve, Mr. Brains. I think it would reinforce your self-worth and prove to you that you are worth more than to be treated with no respect.


I've been going on the assumption that he wants to R. But I do agree that it's a losing battle.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> No. Actually, the bathroom is pretty much the only place where privacy should really be in a marriage like this.


The bathroom is where my wife took photos of herself to send to the POS OM. 

If she wants to R with you privacy is out the door!!!!!


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

OP, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. It sucks. My heart goes out to you, because none of the things you are contemplating are easy, and in the middle of it all your gut is twisted, your head plays games with you and your heart hurts. 

You're a smart guy though... this feeling, this problem will continue unless you take all the steps YOU ALREADY KNOW need to be taken. It's difficult, it's painful, even if the outcome is zip. But you know you have to take them. Might as well get on with it. A cowboy's work is never done. 

God bless


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

mahike said:


> The bathroom is where my wife took photos of herself to send to the POS OM.
> 
> If she wants to R with you privacy is out the door!!!!!


Ouch, bro. Sorry 'bout that. Good point.


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## LostCPA (Apr 15, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't quite understand this idea that she can be held accountable. I don't think she will realize she can be held accountable and that there are consequences until she cares about the consequences.
> 
> That's the reason I thought it best to suggest Mr. Brains live his life for himself, caring for his children and himself and including her as if she were a part of a "real" open marriage. Leave her out of the most important decisions. Make them on your own. Ask her opinion on the small things and parts of the big ones, but make the final decision and take the action on your own.
> 
> I think it will strengthen your resolve, Mr. Brains. I think it would reinforce your self-worth and prove to you that you are worth more than to be treated with no respect.


I don't think she cares about the consequences either. But, holding her accountable simply means to set firm boundaries and enforce them with consequences when she breaks them. That is for HIM not for her. The only consequence that I think will work in this case is for him to show her the door. She may not care, but he will regain his self-worth and dignity.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


Listed but have you followed through? Protecting how? Why does she not want to lose you? If its all worthless words, in through the right ear out through the left ear.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't think Mr. Brains has made up his mind either way.
> 
> Mr. Brains, this is why I think you need to live your life differently.
> 
> ...


There is no evidence of any of this yet.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Listed but have you followed through? Protecting how? Why does she not want to lose you? If its all worthless words, in through the right ear out through the left ear.


There is no evidence of EA or PA at this point.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There is evidence, though. The fact that you know in your gut and in your heart that a woman who is in love with her husband would be happy if he came home early...and yet your wife was mad at you for it....is your evidence. 

Even if she didn't have something specific lined up (ie: an affair partner waiting to see her that night), she did at a minimum plan to go out and "have fun" without you that night, and to her (given her history), "have fun" means "cheating in some manner".

I hope you get some real evidence soon so you can just be done with this and hopefully find real, committed love someday.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> There is no evidence of EA or PA at this point.


C'mon. If you could go back 20 years and tell yourself what the red flags are of a cheater, she wouldn't have gotten away with much. 

You KNOW what the flags are. Like all of us we look back and smack our foreheads and say "i knew that was suspicious." 

Her being angry at your coming home was a neon red flag. If she's cheating, in hind sight you'll say "I knew it." 

The gut is a great tool. It's natures early warning system.

Set something up where you need to go "out of town" as a test. VAR the house. Come back early and see what's what. If you find nothing check the VARs. Make sure its a place far enough away to have LOTS of warning. 


If you tell your wife you're leaving for a night, say Friday. She will at a minimum contact the AP to ask what his plans are. (This is assuming she's cheating, and that he isn't the guy next door.) I would assuage her fears of you coming home early. "Man I don't think I can get out of this trip early." You can be vague if you like, the meaning is what will matter. 

You might even be able to skip the trip and just check the VARs. I'd go for the full double envelopment though. Better chance of catching anything.

I would only ignore your gut if you have a pattern of suspecting things that have shown not to be true. This is the most efficient way to get your answer I can think of.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

You know how gut feeling for relationships have emerged? Men who lacked it were ending up raising other men's children. Women who lacked it were ending up abandoned in the jungle. It is a survival advantage.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I have listed plenty of consequences. Protecting what I have now. She does not want to lose me. For many reasons.


Did she agree to them, were they implemented or is it your own personal list that you informed her and us about?

I do find it interesting, you have been programmed to believe her privacy is more important than your peace of mind.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeeeessss...

She is so scared of your consequences that she made up an event on the fly to make you feel abandoned and alone when you dared disrupt her lies. She deliberately stuck a (small) knife in. And no, she wasn't happy at all you were back. In fact....she was the opposite of happy. I would even accept 'meh' from the wife. But not the million excuses she had for you to stay away.

I can see her trembling now...


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part?


IMO, you should have not told her and then came home to either find her F'ing another man in your house.

And if you came home and she wasn't there, you could have called as if you are still out of town and ask her what she is up to and catch her in the lie.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> She was pissed I came home early. I still can't figure that out.


I think you already figured it out, you just don't want to think about the likely reason


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP. Your gut is telling you something and you came here. That counts as TWO red flags.

RDMU came here with two red flags plus his gut. We know what happened there. You are at a similar level.

Anyway. IT is possible nothing is going on.. VAR, go away, and find out.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

VAR is in home. As far as deleting texts you guys are nuts. This is 2013 she can delete a text without me knowing at anytime anywhere as long as I'm not with her. The bathroom was an analogous to everyday duties not privacy. Chill out. I'm looking and listening. I'm no rookie at this.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Did you do the car too?

Edit. I get it. You want proof. Im a proof person myself.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Did you do the car too?
> 
> Edit. I get it. You want proof. Im a proof person myself.


Not in car yet. But she spending 90% of her day in the house. Hardly ever in the Benz.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> There is no evidence of EA or PA at this point.


It would really take an effort from WS to show proof when you approach her like you did.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> VAR is in home. As far as deleting texts you guys are nuts. This is 2013 she can delete a text without me knowing at anytime anywhere as long as I'm not with her. The bathroom was an analogous to everyday duties not privacy. Chill out. I'm looking and listening. I'm no rookie at this.


A nanny cam would be better


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MrBrains....hang in there. What you are going through (wondering if she is cheating again) must be like drinking poison. 

I hope you get an answer and the wind blows you in the right direction, whatever it is.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Not in car yet. But she spending 90% of her day in the house. *Hardly ever in the Benz.*


1 little sentence.

And it means so much for this story...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> There is no evidence of EA or PA at this point.


Fair enough, but let's look at your other post, shall we?



MrBrains said:


> Yes 2 PAs 2 EAs we have 3 children.


So she's had *FOUR* affairs....*that you know of*.

So this establishes her as a serial cheater. You posted that in the sex in marriage forum, saying you are HD and she is LD. One would think that you would be able to spot the red flags of an affair by now. 

Then from your other thread:



MrBrains said:


> My story starts 20 years ago. I met a 19 year old girl at the music store I worked at. Found her to be super hot and smart. I was 29. We married a year later after I found out she was pregnant. I married her because I wanted to live with my daughter and make it work.
> Within the first year of marriage I thought she might be having sex with a woman we both knew. They were both hot. She came home drunk one night and told me she had made it with this girl. I didn't think much of it. I was a young rocker and had seen it in the bus many times. It never happened again.
> Fast forward 8 years. I'm working in medicine, my wife is working at the same hospital in IT. We have 3 kids now. I let her go out with her work buddies all the time. Well one of the young work boys and his friend would go out with the girls from IT when they went out. I didn't know this.
> The two guys would take my wife and one of her friends back to his place and sex it up. He left suck marks all over my wife's body for me to find. I found them Jan. 10th 2002. The second worse day of my life. We went to MC for a year. She lied the whole year and was still seeing #1 during work. I made her quit her job she went to work traveling where she met #2 in Atlanta. Could not find her for 2 days. Met with lawyers and was told not enough evidence for #2 and #1 never happened according to the law. I had slept with her after I knew about it. The next was a EA I guy from her previous work (not #1) was calling and texting her. I stopped that. Then the last was about 2 1/2 years ago Facebook high school friend hit the list. He was taking her out to eat at lunch while I worked. I sent that married banker a message on Facebook from my account and was going to blow the lid off his life. He stopped.
> ...


Her last affair that you know of, was only 2 and a half years ago, not 10. I suspect there's even more that you're not mentioning. But if you're another one of those who isn't going to do anything because you have children with her, well, what's the point in asking if you should block or not? You're going to stay with her no matter what's said to you in this forum.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> You want proof. Im a proof person myself.


I don't know. It actually seems the OP doesn't want any evidence pretty badly, otherwise why giving her head-ups about his early return.

He knows something is not right, he probably has a good idea what exactly is wrong. He can't follow up properly though, as confirming the suspicions would put him in position where he'd have to chose between his dignity and marriage.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

snap said:


> I don't know. It actually seems the OP doesn't want any evidence pretty badly, otherwise why giving her head-ups about his early return.
> 
> He knows something is not right, he probably has a good idea what exactly is wrong. He can't follow up properly though, as confirming the suspicions would put him in position where he'd have to chose between his dignity and marriage.


I blame Lifetime TV and psychologists.

Look...I'm the product of divorce. I have my own set of mental kinks but I've been married for 15+ years, I don't do drugs, I rarely (RARELY) drink to excess and I've found myself in a good place in life.

If you think that your kids are going to do heroin and date a Hell's Angel named Thor if you dare THINK about divorce...well...you are seriously overwrought in your fears.

I started to 'get' that mom wasn't exactly good wife material at an early age. My sisters were even younger. 

So you aren't protecting anyone by burying your head in the sand and giving the wife ample time to clean herself before you appear.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Just remember. With the wife Mr Brains is playing Mr clueless trustingdude.

BTW women talk in their cars more than home. Get that var going!

They also fvck in them. We have had more than our share.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Fair enough, but let's look at your other post, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is nobody better on TAM than the Lord at pulling previous things you say and using them to tell you what you already know but aren't willing to face.

Mr. Brains, I've read through your situation and am amazed by your approach. Different strokes for different folks.

In this case, there is no way I would have warned her I was coming home early. No freaking way. I can't believe you did. 

HOWEVER, you did gather some information I would not have gathered, and that's her reaction to you warning her. It speaks volumes. Why you are with this woman is beyond my understanding. 

Good luck friend.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Just remember. With the wife Mr Brains is playing Mr clueless trustingdude.
> 
> BTW women talk in their cars more than home. Get that var going!
> 
> They also fvck in them. We have had more than our share.


Yes, but only do this if you "really" want the truth.

I have to agree with others here, that you seem to want her to stop what ever she is doing more than you want to actually know what she is doing, or has already done.

The life that you want to perceive you are having isn't the life that you have lived. Thus far anyway.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Dont forget GPS tracker for the Benz.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> 1 little sentence.
> 
> And it means so much for this story...


What's that?


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

snap said:


> I don't know. It actually seems the OP doesn't want any evidence pretty badly, otherwise why giving her head-ups about his early return.
> 
> He knows something is not right, he probably has a good idea what exactly is wrong. He can't follow up properly though, as confirming the suspicions would put him in position where he'd have to chose between his dignity and marriage.


You don't suspect anything until you suspect something. Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early? You guys are killing me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> You don't suspect anything until you suspect something. Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early? You guys are killing me.


I can't believe you asked this. What is the point of this post if you see no reason not to tell her??

Whatever. Just continue to ignore the advice that YOU asked for. Your house must be awful clean with all that rugsweeping going on.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> You don't suspect anything until you suspect something. Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early? You guys are killing me.


The entire tone of your story to your wife (not to mention her COLORFUL history) all indicate that you have suspicions. Even the verbal 'banter' was on your part very suspicious and on hers EXTREMELY evasive. If I had a conversation like that with my wife, I'd probably be putting a down payment to a PI.

But let's ignore ALL of that. What is the title to this thread? "To Block or not to block" with you looking for back pats from the TAM crowd that you successfully c0ckblocked your wife from being able to go out and have a good time.

Well...well done. You stopped her THIS TIME. This is at best a tactical victory. 

Now you want to play this off as if you are a simple husband who is politely and respectfully keeping his loving and faithful wife informed of your doings.

This is a ridiculous transition for you to try to make.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> You don't suspect anything until you suspect something. Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early? You guys are killing me.


After her 4 previous affairs, I'm sure you suspected something. The tone of the OP was you did suspect and the reason for coming home early. 

You aren't a newbie when it comes to infidelity. And neither is she. Do you want to live in a marriage like this the rest of your days? You don't trust her and really have no reason to trust her. She is a serial cheater and has little hope for changing, especially if you don't bring down some hard consequences for her behavior. 

What do YOU want out of your marriage?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> You don't suspect anything until you suspect something.


You told people why in your OP.


MrBrains said:


> *I felt a strange feeling in my gut. I ask her what are her plans for Sat. Night?* She's says she's going to just sleep all afternoon and night.





MrBrains said:


> Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early?


 You answered that in your OP.


MrBrains said:


> *I felt a strange feeling in my gut.*





> You guys are killing me.


No, you put that proverbial noose around your own neck, people are trying to loosen it. It is ironic how people dole out advice, critique people's abject naivete and then become blind when it is their own situation.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: To block or not?*



JCD said:


> The entire tone of your story to your wife (not to mention her COLORFUL history) all indicate that you have suspicions. Even the verbal 'banter' was on your part very suspicious and on hers EXTREMELY evasive. If I had a conversation like that with my wife, I'd probably be putting a down payment to a PI.
> 
> But let's ignore ALL of that. What is the title to this thread? "To Block or not to block" with you looking for back pats from the TAM crowd that you successfully c0ckblocked your wife from being able to go out and have a good time.
> 
> ...


Actually he didn't stop her. She went out anyway didn't she?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

bfree said:


> Actually he didn't stop her. She went out anyway didn't she?


:iagree:

She was gone before he even came home. All he ended up doing was give her a heads up that he was coming home early.

Epic Fail.

Anyway, she can do whatever she wants without any real consequences because he allegedly can't divorce her because of her mental issues. Her complete disrespect of him and the marriage after her many affairs is her way of rubbing it in his face.

BTW, what state is this that you can't divorce someone because they have mental issues?


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bfree said:


> Actually he didn't stop her. She went out anyway didn't she?


I stand corrected.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> BTW, what state is this that you can't divorce someone because they have mental issues?


The state of overwheening love and abject fear.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Epic Fail indeed.

Brains, I think you KNOW that you failed here, but were hoping we would tell you differently.

Otherwise, you would have asked your "block or not block" question BEFORE you took any action.

Instead, you did what you did, and wanted to feel better about it. 

Sorry to disappoint you.

You know what you have. You have a wife who cheats. You've decided to live with it. Fine by me - it's not my life. But be prepared for countless "gut" feelings about her for the rest of your relationship. How you can live that way is beyond my comprehension. But you have your reaons, I suppose.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It's hell to live in limbo. Personally, I don't know how one can live in limbo land for years. Boiling frog syndrome I suppose.

But its your life Mr. Brain. Good luck.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I did the VAR thing. Heard the moans, load moans. 

The reaction that your wife gave you was strange to say the least when you told her that you were coming home early. Not a normal reaction.

Your question in your OP was, "My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part? " I wish I had TAM years ago. I wish there was a way to go back in time because I would do just about everything differently. It seems like you are walking the road of denial. I did. Even with your eyes opened you are walking along that lonely road, hoping that what you suspect is not true. And I suspect you are doing this without realizing it. I would suggest that you go back and read what folks are writing here. Do the VAR thing.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> She was gone before he even came home. All he ended up doing was give her a heads up that he was coming home early.
> 
> ...


There is one state where D can't be done due to mental illness, The state of denial.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I understand the fear. I felt it for a few minutes before I had DDay. You realize this could really be it and this marriage could be over. I did the same thing, blocking, but I do REGRET not monitoring their texts to see if they actually would have met. 

Now, I am glad I blocked, but I have a job where I would have been able to go to "work," not go, show up before anything happened and confront before they met. So, I understand why you blocked, but you didn't she still went out. You say blocked, I say MOVED. Whatever she had planned was moved from your house.

You need to put your foot down and level actual consequences to her. She keeps doing these things, so I am going to assume, since you didn't answer, that these consequences are not set in stone.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Epic Fail indeed.
> 
> Brains, I think you KNOW that you failed here, but were hoping we would tell you differently.
> 
> ...


This is a trifle harsh. I think wife had her game plan which included a NICE LONG WEEKEND...but hubby came home early. He would (if he were normally suspicous and seeking the truth) be doing normal things like checking her for marks, strangely timed showers, crusty underwear etc.

I do not know how arrogant this woman is, but it is unlikely after that conversation that she is going to risk indulging in those activities with that level of (supposed) scrutiny.

So yes, I think he blocked her. BUT...she wouldn't allowe him a clean win, so she wandered off to display her independence and foul his 'win'.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> *She decided to take a shower get ready and go out to the game with her friends before I got there.*
> My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part?


Yeah, she had a "ball game" to go to OK, but it was an "away game" being played on another court ~ and in another bed!

And you're the BS here? I'd greatly be forced to say that you are free to come and go to your own home as you may choose. But had it been me however, I would choose to show up totally unannounced, if for no other reason than to see what might be "going on!"


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Yes. I did let go for my kids. My kids are older now. If she is cheating again its a done deal.


Wow! I skip a few days reading TAM, and this is what happens? Lol!

Mr. Brains,

You have heard the best advice over and over again. All in the span of a week.

The frustration for me as a reader of your saga is the quote above.

You have lived through several and even recent betrayal, and your reason to stay is over. 

*Why does it matter if she is cheating again?*

The question really should be why aren't you divorced?

Divorce will set you free from the heartache that has numbed your soul. Free to find a true love. Free to obtain your goal.

Sure D sucks, but it will be like getting a root canal on an infected tooth.

I LOVE being happily married. Most of us do. Start over. Mulligan. Get a new contract. Find a new team. Life will be sweet again once you do.

So sorry you have endured so much. Time for a change.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> 1 little sentence.
> 
> And it means so much for this story...





MrBrains said:


> What's that?


You don't see it? Okay.

This one little sentence says so much to me. You are about appearances. Life for you is what everyone thinks of you. I would dare say 95% of the people would've used the term "my car or her car". Not you. You had to tell us it's a "Benz". 

Your marriage...is about appearances. You could have a Benz with a sh-t motor. But it still looks pretty sitting in the driveway in suburbia. Kinda like it looks nice having a pretty wife there. It goes with who you are. It goes with what you need to express to everyone.

I'm married. 

Just don't look under the hood.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

It also shows why she sticks around....all about the Benjamins


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Let him do the VAR thing in the car.

Brains. You have your plan, work it. As Nike says "Just do it"


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> You don't see it? Okay.
> 
> This one little sentence says so much to me. You are about appearances. Life for you is what everyone thinks of you. I would dare say 95% of the people would've used the term "my car or her car". Not you. You had to tell us it's a "Benz".
> 
> ...


Ok.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> You don't see it? Okay.
> 
> This one little sentence says so much to me. You are about appearances. Life for you is what everyone thinks of you. I would dare say 95% of the people would've used the term "my car or her car". Not you. You had to tell us it's a "Benz".
> 
> ...


Dig, I am really starting to appreciate your posts and writing abillity. Top notch.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Ok.


MrBrains,

Lots of things have been said. It hurts so deeply. Don't get into a hole. The reply above kind of makes me think you are drowning in the problem.

Bro take a break from it. Go for some long walks. Listen to some good music. Find places to explore.

When your strength comes back, do what you can each day. You have endured too much emotionally. 

I would dare say we all want your pain to end.

Use those brains, and reflect upon the things that are in your heart. You can do it. We did. It will be ok.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Dig, I am really starting to appreciate your posts and writing abillity. Top notch.


Thanks for such a nice compliment, Gabriel.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Exactly. You just proved my point.
> 
> Good luck, man. You got it all under control.


Take it easy on him, dude. You know the type of pain Mr. Brains is suffering. Not really the appropriate time to start ripping on him for having the temerity to mention he drives a 'Benz. I think this is more bullying than "tough love."


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

A good point BK. My apologies Brains. Good luck anyways, man. I hope you find happiness.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Mr Brains, if the house was VARd already have you checked them? 

She can delete her phone texts, but what about the logs? Have you checked those recently? 

Those two things can answer many of your questions.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

BK23 said:


> Take it easy on him, dude. You know the type of pain Mr. Brains is suffering. Not really the appropriate time to start ripping on him for having the temerity to mention he drives a 'Benz. I think this is more bullying than "tough love."


It could be a great benz with a great engine and drivetrain. It's nice to be able to drive what you want to drive, neverminding what other people think.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> You don't suspect anything until you suspect something. Why wouldn't I tell her I'm coming back early? You guys are killing me.


 In your post number 1 of this thread you stated that "She asked me what time I'm coming home on Sunday. I felt a strange feeling in my gut. I ask her what are her plans for Sat. Night? She's says she's going to just sleep all afternoon and night. I decided to BLOCK. I told her I'm coming home". You then asked "My question to you BSs (like me) Should I have not told her and come home a little later to try to catch something maybe? Or was the block the right move on my part?" So please do not now try to tell us that you did not suspect anything when you told her that you were coming home. You knew that something was up and made a decsion to block by telling her that you were coming home early. Heck the thread is even titled "To block or not?" as you were asking us if you made the right decsion on this; please do not now claim otherwise when people tell you that you made the wrong call.

You cannot learn from your mistakes if you are not honest with yourself.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

You have said you have no evidence. Wrong. 

1. Her reaction to you saying you are coming home early....big big big red flag.
2. You said she can delete what she likes and you wouldn't know....and yet you refer to her as a deleter. So, you do know she deletes. How? Anyway, deleting texts is evidence number 2....Big big big red flag. 

Ok, you have 2 major red flags here. I would say that this is ample evidence to say there is something going on. Just now to find out what. 

Glad you have started on the VAR's, but you need to employ every tactic you can use that is at your disposal. 

And no, it is far from ok for a cheater to delete. That really is one of the greatest sins an ex (supposedly) cheater can do. And you should never ever allow that. Ever.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> A good point BK. My apologies Brains. Good luck anyways, man. I hope you find happiness.


I don't see it as bullying at all. I see it as just misguided, aimless shooting on your part. How I refer to a car that both me and wife drive is nonsense. I have many cars and many kids driving and everyone in my house refers to the auto they may drive at any point as its make. I think your grasping at straws. Non of such things have anything to do with my situation.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Let us not be too hostile. He is here for help.

Mr.Brains, just don't ignore the advice because it is different from you own line of thinking. You are Ok with VARs but not with deleted text messages. If you are going to snoop, dive into it completely.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Have you listened to the VAR/VARs yet?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

The point of this thread was is it better to block a POSSIBLE encounter or let it happen first. 

You people's analyzing, deep mind melting, what kind of cars I have, where my feeling are, where her feeling are, guessing at her intentions, way overboard BS. Is not what this was about. I'm on top of my marriage and monitoring things. Nothing can be black or white here.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Have you listened to the VAR/VARs yet?


No. She works from home and I have not had a chance to get it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Let us not be too hostile. He is here for help.
> 
> Mr.Brains, just don't ignore the advice because it is different from you own line of thinking. You are Ok with VARs but not with deleted text messages. If you are going to snoop, dive into it completely.


Wtf is this? I never said I was ok with deleted texts. I said she could delete them and I wouldn't know it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, take it easy..


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: To block or not?*



MrBrains said:


> The point of this thread was is it better to block a POSSIBLE encounter or let it happen first.
> 
> You people's analyzing, deep mind melting, what kind of cars I have, where my feeling are, where her feeling are, guessing at her intentions, way overboard BS. Is not what this was about. I'm on top of my marriage and monitoring things. Nothing can be black or white here.


It depends on your goal. Blocking in this case will only delay the inevitable. Your WW will just find another way. You may not have blocked anyways....didn't she go out anyways after you came home early?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Here let me ask you a simple question, did you ask HER why she was mad?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Should be able listen to VAR in an hour.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Good luck brains. Remember if you hear another man stop listening and have a trusted friend listen. It will be 100 times worse if you hear your wife being fvcked by another man.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Good luck brains. Remember if you hear another man stop listening and have a trusted friend listen. It will be 100 times worse if you hear your wife being fvcked by another man.


Considering the quantity and quality of his sense of denial, maybe he _should_ listen.

After all, we are ALL jumping to conclusions, making things up, second guessing in egregious manners. How does he know that the friend won't lie to him?

It is certainly a more palatable option than to believe a woman who cheated on him *4 times* would do it again.

Brains, you have annoyed me. We are trying to help and offer the best advice we can and you are twisting and turning to tell us that well, shucky darn, we are all wrong and there really ISN'T anything out there...but you are just being careful. You have it all under control...except for the fact she's leaving the house for unspecified visits to unknown locations with unknown people for long periods of time.

But beside *that*, you have it all sewed up. 

Sorry to have wasted your time. When are you going to apologize to me for wasting mine?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> *Considering the quantity and quality of his sense of denial, maybe he should listen.*


I agree. It would probably be the only way he'll truly believe/know that she is cheating, yet again.

As mad and fustrated as we get at these mega-beta types, I can't help but feel sorry for them.

You know that when the illusion finally comes crashing down around them, it will be the worst day of their lives.

Many of us have been there. Have seen it and lived it. It's tough watching from the stands when you KNOW there's about to be a big wreck...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

JCD said:


> Considering the quantity and quality of his sense of denial, maybe he _should_ listen.


Confirmation should be enough. Don't wish the additional pain on anyone.

Honestly this thread is getting ugly. Please stop beating on him. HE IS GOING TO LISTEN TO THE VAR! They did that to RDMU too. Was he really in denial? No he wasnt.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Confirmation should be enough. Don't wish the additional pain on anyone.
> 
> Honestly this thread is getting ugly. Please stop beating on him. HE IS GOING TO LISTEN TO THE VAR! They did that to RDMU too. Was he really in denial? No he wasnt.


I shall abide to hear what he has to report.

But if there is nothing on it THIS time, it is not time for self cogratulatory pats on the back.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Brains, you remind me of Carlton. He turned it around now but not before wading through a sh!t load of denial. That's where you are right now.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I wouldn't have told her I was coming home.. I would have just showed up, unexpected~!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Should be able listen to VAR in an hour.


I'll assume that the VAR recording revealed some bad news since it looked like you were intending to post a follow up as soon as you got the chance to listen to it. Sorry to see you in a mess like this.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok. Yes the VAR did reveal something. Not what I was suspecting at all. Apparently Friday night late my 17 year old son had been spotted on Instagram passed out drunk on a beach. He signed a baseball scholarship 2 weeks ago. My wife had an appointment with him to meet with his former coach and sort through possible courses of action that would not effect his scholarship on Saturday at 9pm. 

After a long take with her last night I found that she was not going to let me know. She felt my disappointment in my son would have created a rift between us just before his summer positioning workout. Possibly effecting his position in the new rotation. I am going to continue the VAR in the house and car. No need to stop that for awhile. No I have not talked to my son about it yet.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Ok. Yes the VAR did reveal something. Not what I was suspecting at all. Apparently Friday night late my 17 year old son had been spotted on Instagram passed out drunk on a beach. He signed a baseball scholarship 2 weeks ago. My wife had an appointment with him to meet with his former coach and sort through possible courses of action that would not effect his scholarship on Saturday at 9pm.
> 
> After a long take with her last night I found that she was not going to let me know. She felt my disappointment in my son would have created a rift between us just before his summer positioning workout. Possibly effecting his position in the new rotation. I am going to continue the VAR in the house and car. No need to stop that for awhile. No I have not talked to my son about it yet.


Potentially good news then. It sucks to see your son get into trouble, but it appears that there isn't another man in the mix based on what you know so far. Still, no secrets should be no secrets. It was wrong of her to try to hid your son's behavior from you. It does show that your wife still sees a benefit in hiding things from you. That is not good. Secrets are not good for a marriage - even if those secrets have nothing to do with infidelity.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Potentially good news then. It sucks to see your son get into trouble, but it appears that there isn't another man in the mix based on what you know so far. Still, no secrets should be no secrets. It was wrong of her to try to hid your son's behavior from you. It does show that your wife still sees a benefit in hiding things from you. That is not good. Secrets are not good for a marriage - even if those secrets have nothing to do with infidelity.


I totally agree and will keep the VARs rolling. Why not.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I totally agree and will keep the VARs rolling. Why not.


In light of this maybe now would be a good time to emphasize complete honesty and transparency as a hallmark of a good marriage?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bfree said:


> In light of this maybe now would be a good time to emphasize complete honesty and transparency as a hallmark of a good marriage?


Been working on that for years. I agree.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Been working on that for years. I agree.


Do you feel she would be receptive to information from Dr. Willard Harley? If so maybe you might consider perusing the Marriagebuilders website or suggest reading His Needs, Her Needs with her in order to begin to promote a greater understanding between the two of you. FWIW, the information I posted on transparency was from the Marriagebuilder's site.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bfree said:


> Do you feel she would be receptive to information from Dr. Willard Harley? If so maybe you might consider perusing the Marriagebuilders website or suggest reading His Needs, Her Needs with her in order to begin to promote a greater understanding between the two of you. FWIW, the information I posted on transparency was from the Marriagebuilder's site.


Been there done that about 10 years ago. Got banned from the site. They thought my story had to be made up and was trolling. I know all about Dr. Harley.  I still have poetry up there.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

"My wife had an appointment with him to *meet with his former coach* and sort through possible courses of action that would not effect his scholarship *on Saturday at 9pm*. "

This is kind of late and on a Saturday night, possibly alone with another man.

You're pretty trusting, given her track record.

What did she say(or do...) to convince the coach to see things her way?

These are the kind of things you a probably going to get burned on.

Did you get this info from a house, or car VAR?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Been there done that about 10 years ago. Got banned from the site. They thought my story had to be made up and was trolling. I know all about Dr. Harley.  I still have poetry up there.


So I take it your wife was not receptive to Dr. Harley's honesty and transparency ideas? Why not? What were her reasons? Were you able to discover each other's needs? What were hers and what were yours?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> My wife had an appointment with him to meet with his former coach and sort through possible courses of action that would not effect his scholarship on Saturday at 9pm.


 Wow, so your wife, and this other man that was a former coach, were actively going behind your back to plan your son's future, with all parties knowing that it was to be kept a secret from you. This is telling the other man, that if he was interested in your wife, that your marriage has major issues, while also giving him a reason to remain in secret communication with your wife to explore such an interest should he want to. Not saying that he has such an interest, but he may. A significant percentage of men are cheaters. This is the type of opening that they look for.



MrBrains said:


> After a long take with her last night I found that she was not going to let me know. She felt my disappointment in my son would have created a rift between us just before his summer positioning workout.


 Very bad reason for you wife to do this behind your back. She is telling your son and the other man that she does trust you with knowing this information. You and your wife are suppose to be a team, yet she is clearly telling them by this action that you are not. I would be very pissed if my wife did this to me.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bfree said:


> So I take it your wife was not receptive to Dr. Harley's honesty and transparencideas? Why not? What were her reasons? Were you able to discover each other's needs? What were hers and what were yours?


She really wasn't. Her needs were for me to take out the garbage....that's it. 
Mine as a husband was passionate sex. Well the garbage went out to the street and so did my sex life.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> Apparently Friday night late my 17 year old son had been spotted on Instagram passed out drunk on a beach. He signed a baseball scholarship 2 weeks ago. My wife had an appointment with him to meet with his former coach and sort through possible courses of action that would not effect his scholarship on Saturday at 9pm.


 Thinking upon this further, something is not right here. What does a photo on Instagram of your son sleeping on the beach look like that lets anyone know with 100% certainty that he was drunk? Unless they were drunk driving, I for one have never heard of a scholarship being pulled for drinking beer, so why would this even be a serious factor in your son's scholarship? Since you as the father would never say anything to anyone that would endanger your son's scholarship, and an ex-coach might let it slip to the wrong parties (as a father and not a coach, you do not even hang around these parties), why did she feel that it was safer to confide in the ex-coach and not you? Since most fathers have caught their son's drinking before the age of 21 and dealt with it just fine, why does she think that you are such a bad father that you could not deal with it properly? The other man is just an ex couch, what could he possible do to help your son in this situation? You were out of town, why did she need to make the appointment for 9:00pm on a Saturday night? Where they meeting at his place, over dinner, or for drinks?

Any conversation that your wife had with the ex-coach other man (OM) would have to have included her talking bad about you to him as a reason that he was to keep it a secret from you. This puts your wife and the OM on the inside and you on the outside when they talk. Keeping secrets with and talking bad about your spouse to a member of the opposite sex, are cornerstones in the making of an emotinal affairs (EA). In addition to the things that I said in my previous post about this giving the OM an "in" if her were interested in your wife, it now occurs to me that she may have given him this "in" on purpose. That they may have had a flirty relationship in the past and that she was looking for an on the surface excuse to maintain secret contact with this OM. In such a situation, they would at first always make sure to talk about your son as they both explore the interest level of the other. Again, something is not right here.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

TRy said:


> Thinking upon this further, something is not right here. What does a photo on Instagram of your son sleeping on the beach look like that lets anyone know with 100% certainty that he was drunk? I for one have never heard of a scholarship being pulled for drinking beer, so why would this even be a serious factor in your son's scholarship? Since you as the father would never say anything to anyone that would endanger your son's scholarship, and an ex-coach might let it slip to the wrong parties, why did she feel that it was safer to confide in the ex-coach and not you? Since most fathers have caught their son's drinking before the age of 21 and dealt with it just fine, why does she think that you are such a bad father that you could not deal with it properly? The other man is just an ex couch, what could he possible do to help your son in this situation? You were out of town, why did she need to make the appointment for 9:00pm on a Saturday night? Where they meeting at his place, over dinner, or for drinks?
> 
> Any conversation that your wife had with the ex-coach other man (OM) would have to have included her talking bad about you to him as a reason that he was to keep it a secret from you. This puts your wife and the OM on the inside and you on the outside when they talk. Keeping secrets with and talking bad about your spouse to a member of the opposite sex, are cornerstones in the making of an emotinal affairs (EA). In addition to the things that I said in my previous post about this giving the OM an in if her were interested in your wife, it now occurs to me that she may have given him this in on purpose. That they may have had a flirty relationship in the past and that she was looking for an on the surface excuse to maintain secret contact with this OM. In such a situation, they would at first always make sure to talk about your son as they both explore the interest level of the other. Again, something is not right here.


:iagree::iagree::scratchhead:


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, 9pm is kinda late. Was the son going to be a part of this conversation, or was it just going to be your wife and the coach?

I could feasibly see if the son was going that this could be Kosher, but just the two of them is fishy. 

That said, if the son was going to be part of it, I do think it's feasible that meeting at 9pm once family obligations on his end were complete and he had a free hour COULD be legit.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, 9pm is kinda late. Was the son going to be a part of this conversation, or was it just going to be your wife and the coach?
> 
> I could feasibly see if the son was going that this could be Kosher, but just the two of them is fishy.
> 
> That said, if the son was going to be part of it, I do think it's feasible that meeting at 9pm once family obligations on his end were complete and he had a free hour COULD be legit.


He's a head coach of a huge baseball program he's very busy this time of year.


----------



## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Acabado said:


> I know it's basicaly a theradjack. I resisted until know before asking, I didn't want to push you to disclose what you didn't want to.
> I understand if you don't want to respond this but I believe it can possibly help us to put in to context your wife behavior.
> What kind of mental issues are you talking about? Bipolar? Sex abuse related? Personality disorder traits?


All of the above.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> That said, if the son was going to be part of it, I do think it's feasible that meeting at 9pm once family obligations on his end were complete and he had a free hour COULD be legit.


 Even if the son did come, as detailed in my last post, the reason for her excluding the husband and meeting with the ex coach in secret does not sound legit. In light of the non-legit reason, it makes me wonder if she was just looking for a reason to re-establish contact with the ex coach now that her son was no longer on his team. The fact that she had an excuse to keep it secret from the husband and that there was always the possibility that the son may have not stayed the whole time or not ended up coming at all, would be icing on the cake if she had interest in the ex coach. Not saying that this is the case, but it sure is a realistic possibility.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TRy said:


> Thinking upon this further, something is not right here. What does a photo on Instagram of your son sleeping on the beach look like that lets anyone know with 100% certainty that he was drunk? Unless they were drunk driving, I for one have never heard of a scholarship being pulled for drinking beer, so why would this even be a serious factor in your son's scholarship? Since you as the father would never say anything to anyone that would endanger your son's scholarship, and an ex-coach might let it slip to the wrong parties (as a father and not a coach, you do not even hang around these parties), why did she feel that it was safer to confide in the ex-coach and not you? Since most fathers have caught their son's drinking before the age of 21 and dealt with it just fine, why does she think that you are such a bad father that you could not deal with it properly? The other man is just an ex couch, what could he possible do to help your son in this situation? You were out of town, why did she need to make the appointment for 9:00pm on a Saturday night? Where they meeting at his place, over dinner, or for drinks?
> 
> Any conversation that your wife had with the ex-coach other man (OM) would have to have included her talking bad about you to him as a reason that he was to keep it a secret from you. This puts your wife and the OM on the inside and you on the outside when they talk. Keeping secrets with and talking bad about your spouse to a member of the opposite sex, are cornerstones in the making of an emotinal affairs (EA). In addition to the things that I said in my previous post about this giving the OM an "in" if her were interested in your wife, it now occurs to me that she may have given him this "in" on purpose. That they may have had a flirty relationship in the past and that she was looking for an on the surface excuse to maintain secret contact with this OM. In such a situation, they would at first always make sure to talk about your son as they both explore the interest level of the other. Again, something is not right here.


Those secret conversations, **** you in the a$$, little by little. The other man possibly well and enough realizes it. His post as former coach, and speaking from a position of authority reaps benefits over time...


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Those secret conversations, **** you in the a$$, little by little. The other man possibly well and enough realizes it. His post as former coach, and speaking from a position of authority reaps benefits over time...


Look she's not boning the coach. Geez


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TRy said:


> Even if the son did come, as detailed in my last post, the reason for her excluding the husband and meeting with the ex coach in secret does not sound legit. In light of the non-legit reason, it makes me wonder if she was just looking for a reason to re-establish contact with the ex coach now that her son was no longer on his team. The fact that she had an excuse to keep it secret from the husband and that there was always the possibility that the son may have not stayed the whole time or not ended up coming at all, would be icing on the cake if she had interest in the ex coach. Not saying that this is the case, but it sure is a realistic possibility.


This is something many wives do all the time. Think about king of queens, or Al Bundy. The witty and smart wife and slow plodding husband. The wife may not even be trying to start up an affair, but she recognizes her husbands laziness and lack of taking things seriously when it comes to her son, so she's talking to someone she takes seriously regarding these matters.

Some of the wives could not take their husbands seriously, and would not even ALLOW it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

TRy said:


> Even if the son did come, as detailed in my last post, the reason for her excluding the husband and meeting with the ex coach in secret does not sound legit. In light of the non-legit reason, it makes me wonder if she was just looking for a reason to re-establish contact with the ex coach now that her son was no longer on his team. The fact that she had an excuse to keep it secret from the husband and that there was always the possibility that the son may have not stayed the whole time or not ended up coming at all, would be icing on the cake if she had interest in the ex coach. Not saying that this is the case, but it sure is a realistic possibility.


I was 200 miles away.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Look she's not boning the coach. Geez


The other man wonders "Why aren't you talking to your husband about this?"


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Have you read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> The other man wonders "Why aren't you talking to your husband about this?"


At that level the coach is very entuned and involved with their seniors and their families. You won't understand until you have a kid graduating signing a scholarship. It takes a lot of people. He's just one.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Look she's not boning the coach. Geez





MrBrains said:


> I was 200 miles away.


How do you know this for sure?

You were 200 miles away at the time...:scratchhead:


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> I was 200 miles away.


 Yes I know that you were out of town and stated so. How does that address any of my questions as to her poor excuses for keeping it a secret from you and for even needing to meet with the other man?

Below I am re-asking these questions separated out of the original paragraph:
1) What does a photo on Instagram of your son sleeping on the beach look like that lets anyone know with 100% certainty that he was drunk? 
2) Unless they were drunk driving, I for one have never heard of a scholarship being pulled for drinking beer, so why would this even be a serious factor in your son's scholarship? 
3) Since you as the father would never say anything to anyone that would endanger your son's scholarship, and an ex-coach might let it slip to the wrong parties (as a father and not a coach, you do not even hang around these parties), why did she feel that it was safer to confide in the ex-coach and not you? 
4) Since most fathers have caught their son's drinking before the age of 21 and dealt with it just fine, why does she think that you are such a bad father that you could not deal with it properly? 
5) The other man is just an ex couch, what could he possible do to help your son in this situation? 
6) You were out of town, why did she need to make the appointment for 9:00pm on a Saturday night? OK, you answered that this is a busy time of year for the ex-coach.
7) Where they meeting at his place, over dinner, or for drinks?

If you answer these questions, you will see why I think there is something wrong here.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrBrains, why is it that you do not seem to grasp the concept of right and wrong in a marriage. Was it right to keep this information from you? Was it right to meet with another man alone considering her past behavior? Friend are you just one stubborn guy or do you not really see the problem here? With all due respect, if this seems ok to you you have one seriously dysfunctional marriage. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but the fact is that if you allow this type of interaction to occur without challenge then it is little wonder why your wife seems to lack a fundamental respect for you as a spouse.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Something that big a deal (potentially losing a scholarship and lots of $$$$) should definitely not be kept a secret.

Forget infidelity or suspicions about the coach. 

This is simply a habit your wife has. "Don't tell Mr. Brains."

Yes, there are little white lies we keep to ourselves from time to time, for the betterment of our relationship, or it's inconsequential, etc (i.e. saying your knee feels "fine" because you don't want to sound like a wimp or something), but messing around with a scholarship is a huge, important issue where neither spouse should be kept in the dark. 

If I'm you, I establish this issue with your W that you guys need to tell each other everything, even stuff you don't think the other one wants to hear.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I am sorry your family finds it okay to lie to you Mr Brains. Don't they call it lying by omission? 

You should not be okay with your fww meeting ANY man for ANY reason alone on a saturday night. She's doing things behind your back. 

What can an ex coach possibly do? Advise? 

You wife seeks out a man behind your back. If your son hadn't been caught she could say "oh i was meeting the coach to get tips" or "I was meeting the coach to sharpen up our son's game." 

THIS is how affairs start to begin with. Do you think people just jump into bed together? No, they meet and talk and it starts out talking about somoenes throwing arm and then one things leads to another and "it just happens."

It's not as bad as hearing her making out. But it IS bad. It has nothing to do with your son and everything to do with a supposedly mature adult keeping information from you. Especially the same adult who has a body of work demonstrating lies and deceit.

In my opinion you are not respected by your wife or son who kept this from you.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Don't wait for all of Rome to be a blaze Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

Put down the lyre and take action. NOW!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Look she's not boning the coach. Geez


She is out on a Saturday night lying to you, you know not where. She said this to...someone. Do you think you are the ONLY person she is willing to lie to?

"Oh...Marge...you heard about that...yeah...totally legit...you know how hubby is...always fussing. So please don't tell him I'm out with another man late at night at some unknown location because *I* wasn't doing anything wrong...it was all him!"

Ask your son. Get details from him. Get details from HER. Then in the next second, call the coach and compare answers.

You know....screw it. She is faithful. She is doing NOTHING wrong. It is all just your male insecurities that your wife lies, hides her activities and disappears. Just go with that.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I am sorry your family finds it okay to lie to you Mr Brains. Don't they call it lying by omission?
> 
> You should not be okay with your fww meeting ANY man for ANY reason alone on a saturday night. She's doing things behind your back.
> 
> ...


Brains would have to be some kind of ogre to justify this. I mean 'bruises on the family' bad.

He doesn't come across that way.

A regular wife MIGHT be allowed to get away with this...once or twice. A mentally unstable woman with a long LONG history of infidelity?

You're kidding, right, brains? I'm sorry that you do not feel strong enough or secure enough in your relationship to enforce any boundaries.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Gimme a few days with these VARs.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Gimme a few days with these VARs.


That is fair.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Gimme a few days with these VARs.


Are you going to be out of town for the next few days?

This is when you will get the most from your VARs. Especially the one in her car.

If you're around her all weekend, I wouldn't expect to get that much. Maybe you could leave a few times and make sure she knows you'll be gone for a few hours, before you go.

What I did was tell my then wife/now xw that I was going to go ask her Sister if she was cheating on me. I then stormed out, with the VAR already hidden/in place.

My xw was on the phone before I got to my car. Told her Sister that she'd better keep her mouth shut and a few other things.

It wasn't the complete admission to cheating, but I knew where to go from there. My point is that you could do something simular. Maybe tell her you going to talk with a person that would know what she's been doing and then leave like your going to find that person.

I'll bet that she calls that person before your cars out of your driveway.

Good luck.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

bfree said:


> MrBrains, why is it that you do not seem to grasp the concept of right and wrong in a marriage. Was it right to keep this information from you? Was it right to meet with another man alone considering her past behavior? Friend are you just one stubborn guy or do you not really see the problem here? With all due respect, if this seems ok to you you have one seriously dysfunctional marriage. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but the fact is that if you allow this type of interaction to occur without challenge then it is little wonder why your wife seems to lack a fundamental respect for you as a spouse.


I know it's just hard to swallow right now.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Are you going to be out of town for the next few days?
> 
> This is when you will get the most from your VARs. Especially the one in her car.
> 
> ...


Did that tonight .... I'm nervous.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

What is your gut telling you? Do you deep down feel something is "off"?

Don't ignore it. You've been down the infidelity road enough times to know when there are lies going on...

Maybe she isn't cheating.....does she understand how lying and keeping stuff from her husband and confiding in another man about intimate family details may appear like she is?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Did that tonight .... I'm nervous.


Of course you are. Because you know SOMETHING is going wrong in your marriage. It might not be infidelity. It could be a lack of respect or love.

All of these things hurt. But life changes don't mean you have to lose or be destroyed. Maybe if you are able to effectively demand the things that you need in a marriage, you can fix things. Maybe if she sees that she has something to lose too, she can pull her head out of her bottom.

And maybe it's time to move on. Make some adjustments. This stress is no good for you. Imagine NOT having to worry every time you make a trip? Imagine being with someone whom you don't need to put a GPS tag on their ass to keep track of them?

I hope things work out for you. If things go south for you, LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES.

You've been there 20 years without changing anything...maybe it's time for the old dog to learn a few new tricks...


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I know. I don't want to eat ****. Who does? I'm just a man holding on. I'm not stupid. I may be in denial but we will see. I'll know in an hour. This is the first Benz VAR when see gets back.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I know. I don't want to eat ****. Who does? I'm just a man holding on. I'm not stupid. I may be in denial but we will see. I'll know in an hour. This is the first Benz VAR when see gets back.


I'm hoping for the best MrB.

I know I'm an a$$hole sometimes, but I just don't want to see you getting gaslighted and screwed over by your wife.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

The guys posting are speaking from experience. They may seem harsh but try to take in what they say. They are really trying to save you from more heartache and frustration....

And your not stupid....denial...yes...even if she isn't cheating the sneakiness is enough cause for serious concern. Its very damaging to the marriage, especially with past events.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

The var will tell the story. Let him work the plan.

He IS doing it just as I said he would.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> You've been there 20 years without changing anything...maybe it's time for the old dog to learn a few new tricks...


Boy that says a lot. Still listening to car VAR. I hate Kenny Chesney. Nothing. Try again tomorrow.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Boy that says a lot. Still listening to car VAR. I hate Kenny Chesney. Nothing. Try again tomorrow.


Of all the things you could hear on it, that's certainly not the worst, but it's up there. If you hear Sugarland come on the radio, TURN IT OFF. No one needs to go through the pain of hearing "chicken fried" again. 

Just some levity ;-) You got this Brains. Stay strong, man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Im not sure if the vars matter? Is she so inconsiderate that shed make plans to see a man alone knowong how bad she hurt you? 

Why does she think meeting a man alone on a saturday and lying about it is okay?

I hope you find nothing becauee theres nothing to find so you can address this. (And i hope your guts dont get ripped out ever again.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

That's my issue with the whole thing. Could it be innocent? Nope because even if nothing happened, it is highly disrespectful to hide problems with your children. When you are in R or having other trust issues, no spouse should go see someone, of the opposite sex, by themselves and then hide it.

Yes, I know, don't be facetious. We aren't talking family members or doctors. All I have to say is, this situation could have been handled over the phone, computer or text. If it was a college recruiter or the actual scholarship Coach I'd say relax. My boys are HUGE into sports and a drinking incident is not handled by a former "club" coach.

I don't think anything happened, but you need to put your foot down. She just threw her son under the bus for nothing.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

She just found the VAR in the car.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> She just found the VAR in the car.


I suppose she went looking for it after you had the discussion about your son and the coach.

She may have a mental issue but she's smart and quick.

Plant another VAR elsewhere in the car. Maybe plant 2. That'll throw her off.

Next time dont expose/discuss till you know for sure she's having an affair.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> She just found the VAR in the car.


Don't justify, don't feel the need to explain. Even when I had concrete proof of my wife's affair having been intimate, she tried to gaslight me and deflect. Once she heard the bass in my voice, the cold glint in my eye, she knew she was toast. All their finesse and manipulations are useless when faced with the hard, unyielding truth. My ww saw the truth that night, and it was very very angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> She just found the VAR in the car.


Tell her your were looking for MORE proof of her cheating on you, but you have enough already.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> She just found the VAR in the car.


Your answer:

"You have been behaving very suspiciously and between 'secret meetings', deleted phone texts and the fact that you want to know my schedule intimately so you can plan accordingly, I have to take steps to find out the truth of what you are up to since I can't seem to get it from you."


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: To block or not?*



JCD said:


> Your answer:
> 
> "You have been behaving very suspiciously and between 'secret meetings', deleted phone texts and the fact that you want to know my schedule intimately so you can plan accordingly, I have to take steps to find out the truth of what you are up to since I can't seem to get it from you."


Bingo!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> She just found the VAR in the car.


Um...how well did you hide it?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> Um...how well did you hide it?


Very good I thought It came loose. Alls good she does not suspect me. I bought the car from a business woman 3 weeks ago.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, I see what you mean. She'll be wary now.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

They usually say theyre deleting txts cause it slows the phone down or some other silly excuse. Id seecwhat the phone records say
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Very good I thought It came loose. *Alls good she does not suspect me.* I bought the car from a business woman 3 weeks ago.


Are you serious? How could she not suspect something, after you came home unwantedly early and she got p!ssed and left and...

Are you serious? Didn't she wonder how the battery still had a charge after 3 years?..

Well, take better care MrB. Google best ways to mount a VAR in a car, hide VARS in a house, etc..

I'm having a hard time with her believing that the VAR had been there for 3 years. Make sure the ones in the house can't be found, because she may just be playing dumb in hopes of throwing you off. You know, put on an act in range of the VAR.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Are you serious? How could she not suspect something, after you came home unwantedly early and she got p!ssed and left and...
> 
> Are you serious? Didn't she wonder how the battery still had a charge after 3 years?..
> 
> ...


Will do. I bought the car 3 weeks ago not 3 years ago.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

So what, she found it. What does she has to say about it?


ETA
I just remembered an story from another infidelity site, WH found the VAR in the car while he was at work, believed it to be a bomb nad called the police. Everyone at office behind the police cordon.. a huge mess.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Will do. I bought the car 3 weeks ago not 3 years ago.


Well DUH on me! Sorry 'bout that. Makes sense now.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

She will be looking under the seat. You will have to put it under the dash now.

Dont let it get loose this time!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Use Velcro tape. It has twp parts, with glue on each outter side and velcro connecting them.

One side on the var one side where you are sticking it.

Under the panel that covers the steering wheel column is good.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Very good I thought It came loose. Alls good *she does not suspect me.* I bought the car from a business woman 3 weeks ago.


And you believe this? Really?

How did you pay for it? Did you dispose of the reciept? Did you dispose of the bag and the packaging thoroughly? Did your kids see any of this? Did a bunch of same brand batteries disappear from the 'battery pile' or did you leave new battery packages around?

If you lied, did you hesitate at all, or look sideways?

Chances are she knows and she is trying to see where this goes or she goes DEEP undercover. I read a book of self admitted cheating wife anecdotes and they store sex like camels. They can and will go months (sometimes even years) without their lovers at least for meetings.

Now YOU need to monitor her expenses, looking for new phones, etc.

I am not sure that she will ever speak in that car again...and she's probably going to start 'cleaning the house thoroughly' (i.e. looking for the other VAR.

sigh


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

VAR in the house reveled nothing yet.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You DID use the menu to turn off the beep right? If you are technical, open the case and clip the speaker wire.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> You DID use the menu to turn off the beep right? If you are technical, open the case and clip the speaker wire.


Ok I'll try that. Went through her texts. Everything was clean. Except I was disturbed by a text she sent to a single woman that lives nearby. The single woman asked if a guy my wife knew was single. My wife replied "he's working on being single". The guy is happily married and has never said he was getting D. I know him well.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> Except I was disturbed by a text she sent to a single woman that lives nearby. The single woman asked if a guy my wife knew was single. My wife replied "he's working on being single". The guy is happily married and has never said he was getting D. I know him well.


 I would be concerned by this as well. Why would she know that he was "working on being single" when it is not common knowledge such that you do not know and you know him well? If the single woman does not know the other man (she does not even know if he is married), why is this OM a topic of conversation directed at your wife?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Ok I'll try that. Went through her texts. Everything was clean. Except I was disturbed by a text she sent to a single woman that lives nearby. The single woman asked if a guy my wife knew was single. My wife replied "he's working on being single". The guy is happily married and has never said he was getting D. I know him well.


Whelp, it looks like you might have a lead for the PI when you go on your next trip.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she at least was meeting with him somewhere to talk...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: To block or not?*



MrBrains said:


> Ok I'll try that. Went through her texts. Everything was clean. Except I was disturbed by a text she sent to a single woman that lives nearby. The single woman asked if a guy my wife knew was single. My wife replied "he's working on being single". The guy is happily married and has never said he was getting D. I know him well.


And now you see where secrets in a marriage lead to. Your wife has an entire social life that she keeps separate and apart from you. Such compartmentalization does not exist in healthy marriages.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bfree said:


> And now you see where secrets in a marriage lead to. Your wife has an entire social life that she keeps separate and apart from you. Such compartmentalization does not exist in healthy marriages.


Only if you define 'healthy' as absolutely all knowledge of all types shared constantly.

There are things I know I don't share with my wife. I am sure there are things she knows that she doesn't share with me.

HOWEVER...this woman is a four time loser. She shouldn't be given this amount of latitude.

Brains...are you listening?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> Only if you define 'healthy' as absolutely all knowledge of all types shared constantly.
> 
> There are things I know I don't share with my wife. I am sure there are things she knows that she doesn't share with me.
> 
> ...


Yes of course I'm listening. I'm not ready to throw 20 years down the drain just yet. But I am getting much closer. This really isn't like me to say this but I'm shaken.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You Var the car right? Ugh Im working a bunch lately so forgive my repeats.

The single woman may be toxic. Turn your ears toward her.

Supposedly there is an external microphone jack on the VAR. You might run a mike to near the front of the dash but still well under it and NOT visible then bury the crap out of the VAR.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

What MrBrain´s got BANNED?? Why?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

banned? dernit. Hope he at least is doing his due diligence.


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