# Men in sexless marriages that are not allowed to masturbate



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I heard something yesterday that made me curious about something. One of my wife's good friends has sex with her husband about once a month, and sometimes they skip a month if they are fighting. She thinks anything more than that isn't "normal". 

As bad as that sounds though apparently he isn't _allowed_ to masturbate or watch porn (I'm not trying to make this about porn) either. To me this was mind blowing. I don't mean to trigger anyone but I am curious. Is it common for women who withhold sex to also try to control what their husbands do with "it" when they are by themselves? I guess it just seems that much more cruel to me.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Lmao. And just how do they do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I think it is very common. This husband should divorce this woman. "Allowed" just shows how the dynamic in that marriage goes.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

im_tam said:


> Lmao. And just how do they do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point. Wouldn't be hard for him to get around the "rule" at all. For me its all in the intent. It just seems cruel. Makes me question the motives behind why some marriages are sexless.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I would hope he masturbates, anyway. His body, his rules, really.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Allowed?

Reading about things like this, the first thing that crosses my mind is the self-respect of the man in question. You can't control your W's body, but by God, how little must you think of yourself to abide by her controlling yours too?

That, and I suspect most men (or women, for that matter) just become experts at doing it on the sly.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

That would be cruel. I've never been sexless but when we had problems I told her I resented having to angrily (I meant physically, I think she thought emotionally, I didn't correct her) self service in shower. If she didn't want to have sex then the least she could do was provide the eye candy. She actually got into it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Unless this is a D/s relationship and he likes being subjugated, he's a fool - IMO.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

I can't imagine a marriage with sex only once a month...and the wife deciding whether the man can masturbate or not. Who would let a spouse control all of that? Where is his self esteem and self worth?

I am sorry, but this husband must not have any balls left.....and surely no testosterone left either. 

Is this couple in their 80's or 90's by chance?


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

It's a slightly different scenario but with me and my x, we got into a near sexless habit (maybe once every 2 weeks or even longer). I wasn't really denying, he wasn't really trying. But the more he masturbated/watched porn, the less he cared about having sex with me. So at one point I asked him not to masturbate to see if it helped our sex life.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Also I realize this is a second hand story but it's not obvious to all women how much a man might need sex or what is "normal". I had a very minimal understanding of how important sex is to a marriage or relationship until I delved into tam and experienced a relationship with a very highly sexed person. 

I think men really need to sit their wives down, maybe show then the sexless marriage threads on tam, and explain clearly how important sex is to them. A lot of women are not evilly withholding they just don't realize how much it means to their partner (or maybe how good it can be!!)


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## Mysterymind (Jan 7, 2014)

She controls the sex to control the man. If people were meant to be with one person you would not need a million sperm to get one egg. The sperm count increased due to infidelity built in for genetic diversity.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

greenfern said:


> Also I realize this is a second hand story but it's not obvious to all women how much a man might need sex or what is "normal". I had a very minimal understanding of how important sex is to a marriage or relationship until I delved into tam and experienced a relationship with a very highly sexed person.
> 
> I think men really need to sit their wives down, maybe show then the sexless marriage threads on tam, and explain clearly how important sex is to them. A lot of women are not evilly withholding they just don't realize how much it means to their partner (or maybe how good it can be!!)


:iagree: :iagree:


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> I can't imagine a marriage with sex only once a month...and the wife deciding whether the man can masturbate or not. Who would let a spouse control all of that? Where is his self esteem and self worth?
> 
> I am sorry, but this husband must not have any balls left.....and surely no testosterone left either.
> 
> Is this couple in their 80's or 90's by chance?


They are in their early forties. Honestly, the thing is they seem really happy. They aren't particularly touchy feely with one another, but they do seem to care about each other. I've hung out with him with just me and him and he doesn't complain at all. He doesn't know that I know though.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> They are in their early forties. Honestly, the thing is they seem really happy. They aren't particularly touchy feely with one another, but they do seem to care about each other. I've hung out with him with just me and him and he doesn't complain at all. He doesn't know that I know though.


Wow...to each their own. If they are both happy, that is all that matters....


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

greenfern said:


> _A lot of women are not evilly withholding they just don't realize how much it means to their partner (or maybe how good it can be!!_)


You may be on to something with that. My wife has been trying to get her to change her views. But it hasn't been easy. Its not like she is stubborn. She just has completely bought into the myth that couples who've been together that long live the way she does. She thinks my wife and I are some sort of one in a million thing.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I think if the lady isn't going to participate more, she shouldn't really be saying anything about masturbation. Obviously there are factors such as addiction and such that should tread carefully, but in general....don't try to control the masturbation! 

My SIL was watching MTV (you know...it used to be music, now it's just pregnant teens) But 16 and pregnant was on. I walked by and heard something so hilarious, I had to sit and listen.

This little pregnant 16 year old was getting on to her boyfriend for watching porn. She said she wanted to be with someone who worshiped her and never looked at anyone else. That is when I chuckled and sat down. 

She kept asking him why he was watching porn and he just kind of had his head down. The kicker....SHE was being celibate since becoming pregnant. har har. 

Anyway, it goes to show that some girls aren't taught what a man's sexuality is really like. Hell, I didn't really even grasp it until I came here. I had sex with my H every day, but I certainly didn't know how important it was.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

If he isn't complaining about it, it could very well be that he just isn't that into sex either. Maybe they just are a really well-suited match.

It does happen.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

I never ceased to be amazed here on tam.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

always_alone said:


> If he isn't complaining about it, it could very well be that he just isn't that into sex either. Maybe they just are a really well-suited match.
> 
> It does happen.


Its certainly possible. But maybe he isn't sharing because we're not super close. We are friends through our wives 

I've heard of HD with HD. But LD with LD would work pretty well too. Admittedly though my wife and I are both "fixers", we just can't help ourselves. That's probably why we're so intrigued by their way of life. The irony of it is that I think her friend is trying to "fix" us too.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The friend actually knows that she is wrong and her sexual frequency is wrong.

But, she has also discovered that it's a way for her to assert herself over her husband. It's a way for her to ascertain what type of man she is married to. And she is waiting for him to declare himself a man before she is willing / able to have sex with him.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

not allowed to masturbate? Does she put his thing into a chastity belt and keep the key? Maybe dress him up in womens clothes and invite her girlfriends over for tea, with him serving as a maid?

Unless he is into extreme feminization and/or cuckolding, why would a guy put up with that. Kick her azz to the curb and get a real wife.:scratchhead:


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Hicks said:


> The friend actually knows that she is wrong and her sexual frequency is wrong.
> 
> But, she has also discovered that it's a way for her to assert herself over her husband. It's a way for her to ascertain what type of man she is married to. And she is waiting for him to declare himself a man before she is willing / able to have sex with him.


How do you get this from the OP comments?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I would have thought if you wanted sex less frequently than your parner you would be happy they masturbate. It would take the pressure off them wanting to have sex with you...or someone else. :scratchhead:

Go figure.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Allowed to masturbate.Does not compute.

I can't even imagine how that would go down in my house and my husband is one of those who says he gets too much sex so he doesn't need to masturbate.
I bet if I told him "No you are absolutely NOT allowed to pleasure yourself" He'd start masturbating like a little monkey right in front of me 

I know I would.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

It is the only way I'm able to cope with my sexless marriage. Forget that. It is expensive though ... those long showers really drive up my water bill


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

If you're in a sexless marriage why bother to hide in the shower to masturbate? Hell I'd be lighting candles,playing music,and pouring a glass of wine to prepare for some self love. Why should the other person care? They don't want sex anyway


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> If you're in a sexless marriage why bother to hide in the shower to masturbate? Hell I'd be lighting candles,playing music,and pouring a glass of wine to prepare for some self love. Why should the other person care? They don't want sex anyway


Ha! Well, I'm not really a candlelight kind of guy first of all ... it's more like I woke up with a woody, I'm really horny and this soap feels kind of good ... she's more than welcome to watch or even better, join me ... but after 21 years I don't think it's going to happen


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

It's amazing what people are willing to live with. "Allowed". Give me a break


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think this common. I was a member on another board with mostly women and this topic would come up once in a while. A LOT of women would post that they wouldn't allow their husbands to masterbate and would be devastated if they found out their husbands did. They equated it to cheating. 

These were usually the über religious women and especially the LDS women. The rest of us were always "huh", "who cares". I don't know if these women were in sexless marriage or not. I don't think they would admit it if they were.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I might be a little miffed if I found out DH was secretly beating it on the days he turns me down bc his stomach hurts,he has a migraine,or he's too tired. It would be the secret that would get to me..and the fact that he wasn't letting me watch or join in to help.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

My X was LD and had a huge problem with me masturbating. I wouldn't say I was forbiden, but it was a big deal anytime she was reminded that it happened. Said I'd rather F the computer than her. Lmao. I guess all the times she said no were all forgotten as soon as she looked through browser history.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Wife thinks 1/month is normal. I chose to define it as sexless marriage. Owning my own body body was in fact the deal we made.

That is of course my own opinion. I run into newlyweds who are 1 a week. I'm not sure that 1 a month is any more rare than homosexuality.
MN


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

seriously ? 

If I got sex everyday I wouldn't masturbate. 

How can someone stop anyone from masturbating? I wack one out at work loo every single day I dont get sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> I think this common. I was a member on another board with mostly women and this topic would come up once in a while. A LOT of women would post that they wouldn't allow their husbands to masterbate and would be devastated if they found out their husbands did. They equated it to cheating.
> 
> These were usually the über religious women and especially the LDS women. The rest of us were always "huh", "who cares". I don't know if these women were in sexless marriage or not. I don't think they would admit it if they were.


I have heard of it too. I guess some woman are jealous when their man masturbates. Because even if he isn't looking at porn he could be thinking of someone else. I don't think its fair, but I would be a little more understanding if they were at least having sex with their husbands regularly.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

soulseer said:


> seriously ?
> 
> If I got sex everyday I wouldn't masturbate.
> 
> ...


That's why I avoid public restrooms as much as possible


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> If you're in a sexless marriage why bother to hide in the shower to masturbate? Hell I'd be lighting candles,playing music,and pouring a glass of wine to prepare for some self love. Why should the other person care? They don't want sex anyway


yeah, I would draw the line at buying myself flowers, though.:rofl:


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Hicks said:


> The friend actually knows that she is wrong and her sexual frequency is wrong.
> 
> But, she has also discovered that it's a way for her to assert herself over her husband. It's a way for her to ascertain what type of man she is married to. And she is waiting for him to declare himself a man before she is willing / able to have sex with him.


Interesting view point. My wife and her have had talks. I've been intrigued by her friendship with this woman because they are both trying "fix" each other. Believe it or not she actually feels sorry for my wife because she thinks I'm too demanding in the sex department as far as frequency is concerned. I don't feel the friendship will have a negative affect on my relationship. How horny we are is an individual thing. You can tell me I'm not thirsty but if I feel thirsty I'm still going to drink water.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> Interesting view point. My wife and her have had talks. I've been intrigued by her friendship with this woman because they are both trying "fix" each other. Believe it or not she actually feels sorry for my wife because she thinks I'm too demanding in the sex department as far as frequency is concerned. .


Uh...I would suggest you wife to NOT be friends with this toxic person anymore. Not only does she have a screw loose...she is trying to spread her cancerous thought to your wife!


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I heard something yesterday that made me curious about something. One of my wife's good friends has sex with her husband about once a month, and sometimes they skip a month if they are fighting. She thinks anything more than that isn't "normal".
> 
> As bad as that sounds though apparently he isn't _allowed_ to masturbate or watch porn (I'm not trying to make this about porn) either. To me this was mind blowing. I don't mean to trigger anyone but I am curious. Is it common for women who withhold sex to also try to control what their husbands do with "it" when they are by themselves? I guess it just seems that much more cruel to me.


My ex-wife was like that. Wanted to control sex in every way. Didn't want me masturbating, watching or reading porn. She would find some porn every couple years and read me the riot act...I was always like, "So what? I have needs that you don't seem to care about. If you don't want to have sex, I'm gonna rub one out, simple as that". I would wait till she went to bed after a long day of watching TV, and "take care of business". I would rather have gotten laid, but I was married to a selfish azzhole. Cards dealt.

Similar to this, I grew up in a house where my hypocritical religious parents would raid my room and take any porn magazines I had (from when I was 14 to 18). My parents would steal my stash of porn, give me chit, tell me how disgusting I was, literally yelling and screaming in my face, and months later I would find MY PORN in their room. I stole it back. 

I've never been into anything kinky or anything outside of "mainstream" porn, so I see this kind of reaction as nothing more than control. 

Having lived through that crap, if my girlfriend even hinted in that general direction, I'm packing up her chit. Fortunately, she's completely normal with a healthy sexual appetite. No hangups with sex or porn, and 100% monogamous.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> Uh...I would suggest you wife to NOT be friends with this toxic person anymore. Not only does she have a screw loose...she is trying to spread her cancerous thought to your wife!


Or....Reformed Hubby's wife can wisely teach her friend how to be a loving sexual wife to her husband


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> That's why I avoid public restrooms as much as possible


Its my personal loo in my own business.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I might be a little miffed if I found out DH was secretly beating it on the days he turns me down bc his stomach hurts,he has a migraine,or he's too tired. It would be the secret that would get to me..and the fact that he wasn't letting me watch or join in to help.


Doubt it quit pretending you are into sex that much


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

over20 said:


> Or....Reformed Hubby's wife can wisely teach her friend how to be a loving sexual wife to her husband


She is trying to, she really is. My wife think's her friend is setting herself up to end up with a "Walkaway husband". In other words just because he seems to be alright with things he may not be.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Doubt it quit pretending you are into sex that much


Now you're being bitter and rude. I'm sorry it's tough for you for understand I'm a WOMAN who LOVES my husband's c**k and skills. 
How sad for you that you don't have that kind of sunshine in your life 

Im fairly sure I've had more awesome sex that I initiated w my husband in the last week than you've had w your wife in the last 6 months 

Don't attack me like this again,I'd hate to have my first ban happen Bc I spoke my mind about what I think of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

OK, I get where some women are coming from on the porn issue, but rubbing one out does not equal porn use. Putting down a boundary around porn is one thing, but telling the dude it's verboten to spank the weasel? REALLY?

And what kind of guy accepts this? Does he have to ask her permission to go poopy also? Does she give him a sippy cup at dinner so he doesn't spill?

wow.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm willing to bet this is part of some sexual fetish the couple partakes in. Whatever makes them happy, if it works for them and isn't hurting anyone God bless.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I heard something yesterday that made me curious about something. One of my wife's good friends has sex with her husband about once a month, and sometimes they skip a month if they are fighting. She thinks anything more than that isn't "normal".
> 
> As bad as that sounds though apparently he isn't _allowed_ to masturbate or watch porn (I'm not trying to make this about porn) either. To me this was mind blowing. I don't mean to trigger anyone but I am curious. Is it common for women who withhold sex to also try to control what their husbands do with "it" when they are by themselves? I guess it just seems that much more cruel to me.




Sounds like this woman is a real piece of work.:scratchhead:

Her man only gets sex 1x month and she thinks this is okay? For who? Her?

He isn't allowed to relieve himself and to porn either? Really?!

If I was in his shoes, she would be divorced or I would be relieving myself and to porn often, regardless of what she thinks. Either she takes care of his needs or she selfishly doesn't.

If I got sex only 3 - 4x every week, I wouldn't masturbate or view porn.

I went through the sex 1x month with Mrs.CuddleBug and yes, I did relieve myself and to porn more times than I can count.

If she doesn't see anything wrong with sex 1x every 1 to 2 months, she has some real issues with reality and no clue about men and their sex drives. Sheltered????

I would always want sex with Mrs.CuddleBug over relieving myself and to porn any day.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> She is trying to, she really is. My wife think's her friend is setting herself up to end up with a "Walkaway husband". In other words just because he seems to be alright with things he may not be.


Boy that is sad to hear, hopefully her friend can see the light before it's too late. Even is she can change a little it would show him she has turned the corner and willing to compromise.....can your wife suggest some reading on the topic? Sometimes that is easier than having a direct conversation about it....:scratchhead:


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> I'm willing to bet this is part of some sexual fetish the couple partakes in. Whatever makes them happy, if it works for them and isn't hurting anyone God bless.


I was wondering that too, but why would the OP post complaining here? 

Jeez times have sure changed. I remember when the Sears & Robuck catalog was thought to be pornographic due to the pictures of ladies in bras and panties! Now with the internet showing everything imaginable, TV commercials for dildos "that are so powerful they sweep your hair back" and sex toy websites, fetish clubs, craigslist turning into a prostitution service, etc etc, ANYTHING is possible.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Don't attack me like this again,I'd hate to have my first ban happen Bc I spoke my mind about what I think of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm, he's already banned

:lol:


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

One of things I’d look at. Is she one of those who won’t ever accept blame or responsibility? Always someone else’s or some situation where she isn’t to blame? Has to be “right”?

Basically; She knows she is willing to have sex once a month. She knows that as his wife, she took on that responsibility and expects she will be his only sexual outlet. In a perfect world, that is how it is supposed to work and all will be fine and he will be happy. Unfortunately, she is presented with more than enough evidence that her husband hasn’t adopted these same thoughts… She knows that in his eyes, she’s failing miserably. She doesn’t like to be reminded of this. So, like most that won’t accept fault, her solution is setting up ‘rules’ where she doesn’t have to face it and it’s his problem. 

Therefore when he masturbates, it reminds her she’s failing. So ‘no masturbation rule’ for him is easier than working on her end of the sexual relationship. She can’t be wrong; he just doesn’t see it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Sounds like this woman is a real piece of work.:scratchhead:
> 
> Her man only gets sex 1x month and she thinks this is okay? For who? Her?
> 
> ...


I think in the olden days men would either take it or take on a lover or a prostitute. There was not porn to jag off to.

Sex was possibly something women did, sometimes giving in to their husband in some anger, but they obliged.

There was the story of the Navy seal husband, and the guy is pretty old now, that the wife and his dad and parts of his family had literally had him in the position of indentured servant. He served her for 31 years, and even caught her with a lover. The husband had defended himself in great honor and valour on many occasions, on one time defeating several foes dramatically who tried to move him from line.

When he caught the lover he was broken. He was in a wheelchair for some reason, and the husband was hurt that his wife was conjugating with another man. The man pushed the husband in the wheelchair over and called him pathetic...

The other man left with a broken eye socket, broken nose and other broken bones.

So there was a time when men didn't complain and did something about it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Racer said:


> One of things I’d look at. Is she one of those who won’t ever accept blame or responsibility? Always someone else’s or some situation where she isn’t to blame? Has to be “right”?
> 
> Basically; She knows she is willing to have sex once a month. She knows that as his wife, she took on that responsibility and expects she will be his only sexual outlet. In a perfect world, that is how it is supposed to work and all will be fine and he will be happy. Unfortunately, she is presented with more than enough evidence that her husband hasn’t adopted these same thoughts… She knows that in his eyes, she’s failing miserably. She doesn’t like to be reminded of this. So, like most that won’t accept fault, her solution is setting up ‘rules’ where she doesn’t have to face it and it’s his problem.
> 
> Therefore when he masturbates, it reminds her she’s failing. So ‘no masturbation rule’ for him is easier than working on her end of the sexual relationship. She can’t be wrong; he just doesn’t see it.


It struck me that my wife has created those "rules" for me as well. When I have confronted her about our sexless marriage, her response is that I don't do the things that make her want to have sex with me, placing the blame entirely on me. That may be true, I may not be meeting her needs ... but she since she is unable or unwilling to tell me what those things are, it comes across as shifting blame. 

I think I am a pretty decent husband. I can tell you that having just spent more than a week with my in-laws staying at my house, I am more attentive, giving, responsible, etc. than either of my BILs who are more than willing to let me know that they get it on the regular. That just reinforced/reminded me of the quandary I'm in. 

It leaves me scratching my head ... and stroking my other head. 

She doesn't have sex with me so any complaints she might have about me masturbating would fall on deaf ears.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> As bad as that sounds though apparently he isn't _allowed_ to masturbate or watch porn (I'm not trying to make this about porn) either. To me this was mind blowing. I don't mean to trigger anyone but I am curious. Is it common for women who withhold sex to also try to control what their husbands do with "it" when they are by themselves? I guess it just seems that much more cruel to me.


Meh. This is unenforceable. Every male over the age of 12 knows how to masturbate without getting caught.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Sex 1x/month is actually worse than no sex. With no sex, you can get in the mindset that it's never going to happen and that it's up to you to take care of yourself. But with 1x/month you're always wondering if tonight's the night and continually being disappointed. 

That 1x/month can actually make you feel worse since it's a reminder of how emasculated you've become, eager to get any scrap she throws at you. Better to just turn it down and regain some dignity.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I am more attentive, giving, responsible, etc. than either of my BILs who are more than willing to let me know that they get it on the regular.


Now there's some useful information. Does it strike you that if you were less attentive, less giving, less responsible that perhaps she'd be more willing?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

wilson said:


> Sex 1x/month is actually worse than no sex. With no sex, you can get in the mindset that it's never going to happen and that it's up to you to take care of yourself. But with 1x/month you're always wondering if tonight's the night and continually being disappointed.
> 
> That 1x/month can actually make you feel worse since it's a reminder of how emasculated you've become, eager to get any scrap she throws at you. Better to just turn it down and regain some dignity.


:iagree:


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I think I'd just masturbate and suffer the consequences of no sex and her being mad at me. 
I mean, it's not like I was going to be getting it that much to begin with. So what if I lose out on the <12x of sex I get a year.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Now there's some useful information. Does it strike you that if you were less attentive, less giving, less responsible that perhaps she'd be more willing?


I think with her self-esteem issues, it is one extreme or the other.

The only time in our 21 year marriage when she seemed truly interested in sex ... coming on to me and actively reciprocating ... even getting on top (all 330 lbs of her, lol), something she hasn't done since the year we started dating ... was during our separation and she was desperate to save the marriage. I had stopped by to pick something up and say goodnight to my daughters. I went into the bathroom as I was getting ready to leave and she walked in sans clothing. She was all over me and pulled me into the bedroom. Took me by complete surprise and was out of character. THAT was hot.

On the other extreme, she will make herself available if I put her on a pedestal. By pedestal, I mean make her my top priority to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. Shower her with compliments, affection and attention. Avoid saying anything that could be perceived as critical. I really tried focusing on doing just that last year and it resulted in about once a month. In those cases, she made herself available but did not actively participate. Unfortunately for me, I am not built like that. As much as I like sex, I do actually have an emotional need for my partner to want to have sex with me. 

I completely understand why my one BIL has no problem. This man is a player. Ok looking guy, maybe 5'9", underweight ... in bad need of a teeth cleaning. Ignores his wife much of the time and only tolerates his daughters (he was amazed at the relationship I have with my daughters). We went to the grocery store one afternoon and within 5 minutes of walking into the store he had an attractive woman eating out of his hands and literally inviting herself over for dinner. If we had encouraged it, I am certain she would have showed up. After that, he moved on to someone else. I stood there dumbfounded feeling completely inept next to this guy. Everywhere we went, he was able to charm anybody he came in contact with. As a person and a husband, I question his character ... but it is obvious why he never has a problem getting laid. He is a wine salesman in Las Vegas and his personality is a perfect fit.

My other BIL is a mystery. He used to be a network technician at Nortel but decided about 6 years ago that he needed to find himself. His wife gave him a year to find his new career ... and 6 years later he is still unemployed. He's not even looking. She is an executive and has a sizable income. He left to go back home a couple of days before she did and when he was gone, she went on and on about how little he does. Despite his kids being in school all day, he does nothing around the house. He complains when he has to help out with the kids activities because he "doesn't have time." He spent the entire time at our house sitting on his rear with his phone propped up on his enormous gut that looks like he's pregnant with twins. He got rather terse with his wife when she asked him at various times to help her out. At the end of one of these conversations, I excused myself to go cut the grass ... I asked her if he at least cuts the grass and she says "No! He doesn't even do that! He hired someone because of one time he felt sick because it was too hot." I didn't know what to say. He's generally a nice guy and he's good with his kids and that's about all I can say. It didn't help that late one night when all the kids were sleeping in the living room, I went downstairs and on the way I heard the bed banging in their bedroom. That was the night of my one-year anniversary of being celibate. Awesome.


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## Mulder (Jul 9, 2014)

Let's say (if you believe a woman's desire is largely tied to her response to her husband), that she isn't up for sex that often because he is a lazy slob, and he takes the easy way out and goes to porn.

If he were to cut out the porn, and refocus that energy (you know - the testosterone, the hormones, the pain in the balls when it hits about a week with no sex, etc) and gets his act together (hard work, cleans himself up, dresses nicer, treats her well, gets sexy and seduces her better, etc, etc) then maybe he would see her naked more like once a week?

Of course - if he is already working hard to attain her desire and she is turning him down....then I refer to a quote I heard someone say: "my sexual exclusivity is based on your sexual availability honey!"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think with her self-esteem issues, it is one extreme or the other.
> 
> The only time in our 21 year marriage when she seemed truly interested in sex ... coming on to me and actively reciprocating ... even getting on top (all 330 lbs of her, lol), something she hasn't done since the year we started dating ... was during our separation and she was desperate to save the marriage. I had stopped by to pick something up and say goodnight to my daughters. I went into the bathroom as I was getting ready to leave and she walked in sans clothing. She was all over me and pulled me into the bedroom. Took me by complete surprise and was out of character. THAT was hot.
> 
> ...


That makes it look like being the model and good husband isn't paying off. These jerks and guys who ignore their wives and do what they want to do are getting laid left and right, while you sit there slaving and doing work and getting damn nothing for it but sexlessness.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> That makes it look like being the model and good husband isn't paying off. These jerks and guys who ignore their wives and do what they want to do are getting laid left and right, while you sit there slaving and doing work and getting damn nothing for it but sexlessness.


My observation of my "player" BIL and his interactions is that he is able to quickly identify and hone in on a person's emotional needs. He has an innate ability to do that and that is why people gravitate towards him. It isn't because of his character or looks or anything else really. Meet a woman's emotional needs and she's yours, right? I am shockingly inept at talking to a person and identifying what he so easily picks up on. It is almost as if it has to be accidental or she has to be very communicative about what those needs are. Trying to figure it out feels like throwing a handful of darts at a dartboard and hoping one of them hits the bulls-eye. I'm willing ... just not very perceptive. I think when I married my wife I "accidentally" met her emotional needs without really knowing what they were. Time went on, her needs changed over time and because 1) she has difficulty communicating what she feels or needs, and 2) I am not great at picking up on it, I have not met her emotional needs for a long time and the result is a sexless marriage. Even after letting her know that I want to meet them but I need to understand them, she is unable to articulate what they are ... only that I don't do the things that I need to do to make her want to have sex with me.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Didn't know folks were still posting. I did forget to mention one detail. The main reason she says its only once a month is because she only has desire when she is ovulating. I can see how for some woman this could very well be true. But, I still would hope more of an effort would be made in other times.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Didn't know folks were still posting. I did forget to mention one detail. The main reason she says its only once a month is because she only has desire when she is ovulating. I can see how for some woman this could very well be true. But, I still would hope more of an effort would be made in other times.


Last night my wife told me she thinks she is starting perimenopause. Irregular periods including a missed period last month, gastrointestinal distress and other symptoms. She turns 44 in a month so she is certainly right around that age. Awesome.

So that begs the question ... what happens to their sex life when she stops ovulating? If he can't masturbate, what is he supposed to do when she never desires sex? Is he simply supposed to accept it and deal with it ... for.the.rest.of.his.life?


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm a woman and I think once a month is f-up and I encourage my partner to self-love.

How do you not let another grow up not to do something? If it were me I'd tell my partner either you f--k me or I'll f--k myself lol.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> It's amazing what people are willing to live with. "Allowed". Give me a break


Right an adult telling another adult what to do about their own body.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> she only has desire when she is ovulating.


At least you can mark a calendar. Better than wondering which the magic day will be.
MN


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If a dude accepts that raw deal he needs a serious wake up call to get his testicles out of her purse.

Sheesh. If my wife tried to tell me what I could and could not do with my own body I think I'd fall off my chair laughing.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Last night my wife told me she thinks she is starting perimenopause. Irregular periods including a missed period last month, gastrointestinal distress and other symptoms. She turns 44 in a month so she is certainly right around that age. Awesome.
> 
> So that begs the question ... what happens to their sex life when she stops ovulating? If he can't masturbate, what is he supposed to do when she never desires sex? Is he simply supposed to accept it and deal with it ... for.the.rest.of.his.life?


The wife needs to humble herself and get to the doctor for a full work-up. There are millions of women who have gone through menopause and have continued to have a healthy sexual relationship with their husbands. It is a matter of the woman "taking responsibility" and stop making excuses.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

over20 said:


> The wife needs to humble herself and get to the doctor for a full work-up. There are millions of women who have gone through menopause and have continued to have a healthy sexual relationship with their husbands. It is a matter of the woman "taking responsibility" and stop making excuses.


So true, so many things can be the source of a LD.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

My wife thinks 'duty' vanilla sex once a month is enough. Now that I have done a '180' *I* am no longer interested in sex with her. The years of rejection and being called a sick pervert for wanting (but never getting) oral has taken its toll.

Of course I masturbate...maybe twice a week....which is about how often I guess I would like 'meaningful' sex.

However, I think if you are in a loving marriage where both sexual needs are being met then you probably don't need to masturbate.

Masturbation is also a 'safe' way both spouses can fantasise about someone else...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

soccermom2three said:


> I think this common. I was a member on another board with mostly women and this topic would come up once in a while. A LOT of women would post that they wouldn't allow their husbands to masterbate and would be devastated if they found out their husbands did. *They equated it to cheating. *


Not that this has anything to do with the original question, it doesn't.. (Me personally I feel the wife is absolutely ridiculous )...but it's part of our story..and pretty much unheard of.. so it seems...

I NEVER told my husband , or spoke a word against masturbation, after all I DID !!......I used to think he would be too tired to be woke up from his sleep when I'd get horny (I never needed much sleep in comparison)...

and I'd take matters into my own hands (probably half the time)... we never talked about sex (I was satisfied, he seemed happy)...just never opened this subject up - to these particular questions till 5 yrs ago... 

And I learned , through MY ASKING how often he masturbated, he told me *"NEVER".* (meaning while married..not before he did it plenty before we met) .... I said "[email protected]#$ ..







I told him he has to be lying .. no guy does that, how is that even possible, how could he not be burning with Lust, get blue balls (it's true we had sex at the very least once a week our entire marriage )....he would even look at PlayBoy Bunnies in the am on the computer before work... but he told me he never masturbated except 1 time (which had a purpose to it , to diminish his sperm count in hopes to conceive a daughter the night we planned for an attempt- some co-worker gave him this advice...and apparently it worked, we conceived her that night)... what an amazing thing to learn !

*He told me he felt like that would be "Cheating"*..(He was never religious though, not his reasoning)... I looked at him dumbfounded and told him I was a cheater then.. it was the craziest conversation.. and realization.

Now here is the thing...I was very upset by learning this....because at the time I had this insatiable sex drive that would not let up and his telling me this made my heart SINK...*it was the last thing I wanted to hear*, I wanted to hear he was so horny he couldn't contain himself ... instead I was thinking "







.. he has no sex drive at all- he is an Old man, all washed up, what am I going to do now!!" ... I even told him he is not normal.

So he wasn't lying to me by any means .... and in our case, I never expected him to do that !! He just wanted to wait for me.. it just meant THAT much to him... he's told me masturbation is "hollow"... in reality I feel the same way.. if you have a partner, you want to be WITH THEM... nothing can compare.. Like I wanted to wake him up every single time back then.. but was thinking that would be selfish of me.

Boy did we miss each other [email protected]#$% 

I have not masturbated since then -- we both save every release for each other, if only we had this conversation 19 yrs before, that would have been ideal.

Either this man is LYING to his wife (I would think very probable)...or he has a mindset like my husband does.. and obviously not a raging sex drive.. my H's could be higher no doubt.. though he does pretty well - considering.. or it would have caused us colossal issues 5 yrs ago...


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

does this ball-less limp wrist wear a chastity belt?
How can she possibly know or stop him from it...

I am a very agressive masturbater...have done it my whole life...and 99% of the time it was not known to a significant other...its not like I said "hey hon, gimme a few minutes, im gonna run downstairs, turn on wonder woman reruns, and slam the cyclops, i really really gotta coax one out"...

does he announce it or ask permission?? He can take his cell phone into the bathroom, lock the door, turn on the vent fan, and watch free porn while he slams one home

This guy sounds ultra beta, hes lucky to get any poon at all...


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> does this ball-less limp wrist wear a chastity belt?
> How can she possibly know or stop him from it...
> 
> I am a very agressive masturbater...have done it my whole life...and 99% of the time it was not known to a significant other...its not like I said "hey hon, gimme a few minutes, im gonna run downstairs, turn on wonder woman reruns, and slam the cyclops, i really really gotta coax one out"...
> ...



you made me giggle.. :lol: ..I remember the Wonder Woman show, she was a beauty.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 5, 2011)

My blunt response to that sort of a situation would be a quick warning that I would no longer feel bound to be exclusive.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ... but he told me he never masturbated except 1 time (which had a purpose to it , to diminish his sperm count in hopes to conceive a daughter the night we planned for an attempt- some co-worker gave him this advice...and apparently it worked, we conceived her that night)... what an amazing thing to learn !
> 
> *He told me he felt like that would be "Cheating"*..(He was never religious though, not his reasoning)... I looked at him dumbfounded and told him I was a cheater then.. it was the craziest conversation.. and realization.


Ha! With the exception of one period when I tested myself to see how long I could go without, I've masturbated at least once just about every day of my life since puberty. Probably explains why both my children are daughters.  As a matter of fact ... between me and my youngest brother and my two SILs, we have 8 girls and 1 boy ... must be a whole lot of secret masturbation going on! My other brother is gay and won't have children of his own so who knows what he does, lol.

Interesting that he thought it was akin to cheating. I've had that same thought. The reason is ... and I won't lie ... I don't always masturbate to thoughts of my wife. Old girlfriends, women that were "missed opportunities", women who flirt with me, random women I meet come to mind, particularly if they are my "type." There are a few people from long ago, a couple of old girlfriends and two specific women I really wish I had followed through with when the opportunity presented itself, that come to mind far more frequently than others. Still to this day my strongest ones come from thoughts of my wife ... or I should say, thoughts of my wife from long ago. It used to be that I almost exclusively thought of her but as time goes on and our marriage has become sexless, I think of her less often. I think a case could be made that this is cheating of sorts. 

I could count on one hand the number of times I've used porn. Not my thing. I rely pretty much on an active and creative imagination  If only I focused that creativity on something more productive, lol. It begs the question, is porn worse or better? With porn, these are people you don't know ... it is just ... abstract. With my imagination, it is typically people I do know ... even though I have no intention of actually having sex with them. Seems more like cheating ... and a little creepy too when I frame it like that


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! With the exception of one period when I tested myself to see how long I could go without, I've masturbated at least once just about every day of my life since puberty. Probably explains why both my children are daughters.  As a matter of fact ... between me and my youngest brother and my two SILs, we have 8 girls and 1 boy ... must be a whole lot of secret masturbation going on! My other brother is gay and won't have children of his own so who knows what he does, lol.
> 
> Interesting that he thought it was akin to cheating. I've had that same thought. The reason is ... and I won't lie ... I don't always masturbate to thoughts of my wife. Old girlfriends, women that were "missed opportunities", women who flirt with me, random women I meet come to mind, particularly if they are my "type." There are a few people from long ago, a couple of old girlfriends and two specific women I really wish I had followed through with when the opportunity presented itself, that come to mind far more frequently than others. Still to this day my strongest ones come from thoughts of my wife ... or I should say, thoughts of my wife from long ago. It used to be that I almost exclusively thought of her but as time goes on and our marriage has become sexless, I think of her less often. I think a case could be made that this is cheating of sorts.
> 
> I could count on one hand the number of times I've used porn. Not my thing. I rely pretty much on an active and creative imagination  If only I focused that creativity on something more productive, lol. It begs the question, is porn worse or better? With porn, these are people you don't know ... it is just ... abstract. With my imagination, it is typically people I do know ... even though I have no intention of actually having sex with them. Seems more like cheating ... and a little creepy too when I frame it like that


Well, can hardly blame you. Since your wife won't have sex, you gotta do what you gotta do..........


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

How can a man NOT be allowed to masturbate???????? 

I'm not talking about using porn, but what woman can control a man from taking an extra long shower on occasion?....or his use of Astroglide when the occasion arrises? Men take matters into their own hands when they need to. Period.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Too funny. My wife has zero interest in sex with me. If I did not masturbate, i would be an angry human. The best part is I sincerely dont think she thinks I masturbate. I could be wrong.

A few months back she was experiencing some discharge or something and was trying to brainstorm what it was. I asked if she masturbated recently, thinking maybe it was from that. She was thoroughly offended. "ew i do NOT masturbate". she also thinks porn is disgusting.

I suppose she wouldnt like my usage of both.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

BostonBruins32 said:


> "ew i do NOT masturbate". she also thinks porn is disgusting.
> .


See, that is exactly the type of **** you are supposed to weed out when you are dating! After you are married, well, you did not rent but BOUGHT the whole cow hoping for milk.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> See, that is exactly the type of **** you are supposed to weed out when you are dating! After you are married, well, you did not rent but BOUGHT the whole cow hoping for milk.


dude I rented for years. I think I just didnt have the intuition to smoke this out. We banged like rabbits prior to marriage. Then the well dried up right after a child. "hey i was going to get a ring, but I wanted to check to see if you masturbate first"..hehe..

Either way, my guess is she wouldnt like that I masturbate. Kinda not my problem, especially since sex with me is icky or too much work for her.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I Notice The Details said:


> How can a man NOT be allowed to masturbate????????
> 
> I'm not talking about using porn, but what woman can control a man from taking an extra long shower on occasion?....or his use of Astroglide when the occasion arrises? Men take matters into their own hands when they need to. Period.


LOL, and here I thought I was the only person that flied solo with Astroglide. As I've gotten older though solo flights are less frequent. I've found it kind of puts a damper on desire. Its kind of like eating a large appetizer makes you feel less like eating the entree if that makes sense.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> LOL, and here I thought I was the only person that flied solo with Astroglide. As I've gotten older though solo flights are less frequent. I've found it kind of puts a damper on desire. Its kind of like eating a large appetizer makes you feel less like eating the entree if that makes sense.


this.

and I am just trying to get wrapped up in other things in life. Two things that have really helped me move on from being sexless: completely embrace that there is nothing you can do to change her desire (assuming you've made some changes already) and dive head first into other focus areas.

Once you embrace the two things above, you'll find even less of a need for masturbation. Its probably sad to think like this but it is a very effective coping mechanism.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

BostonBruins32 said:


> dude I rented for years. I think I just didnt have the intuition to smoke this out. We banged like rabbits prior to marriage. Then the well dried up right after a child.



amazing! truly amazing. How IS a guy supposed to know? I guess there is just no way....having a kid seems to trigger so much stuff, I now understand why some guys refuse to have one!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

When my son is visiting I'm a lot less sexually aggressive than when he isn't around. Something about having him around just weirds me out for sex. 

lol

Also,another thing that screwed with my drive was right after we got married and moved into our new house. I freaked out for some reason and didn't want anything to do with sex.I never showed it or told DH about it though...I just waited for it to pass. It did,thank goodness. I still have NO IDEA what that was about.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> does this ball-less limp wrist wear a chastity belt?
> How can she possibly know or stop him from it...
> 
> I am a very agressive masturbater...have done it my whole life...and 99% of the time it was not known to a significant other...its not like I said "hey hon, gimme a few minutes, im gonna run downstairs, turn on wonder woman reruns, and slam the cyclops, i really really gotta coax one out"...
> ...


had to google the wonder woman show. (age difference here).

I definately would have snapped my carrot to that. for now I just keep my vhs handy and pop in Barbed Wire every few weeks.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

BostonBruins32 said:


> Too funny. My wife has zero interest in sex with me. If I did not masturbate, i would be an angry human. ....


Then what's the point in being married?:scratchhead:


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

BostonBruins32 said:


> missthelove2013 said:
> 
> 
> > does this ball-less limp wrist wear a chastity belt?
> ...


Boy that made me feel old. 

I'm a software developer. A young programmer asked me once what us old guys did before google. I said that once we got electricity, we pulled out our trusty abacus and stayed up late at night inventing sites like google. 

Go ahead, you can google abacus 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Boy that made me feel old.
> 
> I'm a software developer. A young programmer asked me once what us old guys did before google. I said that once we got electricity, we pulled out our trusty abacus and stayed up late at night inventing sites like google.
> 
> ...


Before Google we had Gopher.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

tulsy said:


> Then what's the point in being married?:scratchhead:


no point in being married other than having a child together. If I didn't have a child, good night. For the sake of a child, I'm trying.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > Boy that made me feel old.
> ...


Ha! That answer would not have been nearly sarcastic enough.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I heard something yesterday that made me curious about something. One of my wife's good friends has sex with her husband about once a month, and sometimes they skip a month if they are fighting. She thinks anything more than that isn't "normal".
> 
> As bad as that sounds though apparently he isn't _allowed_ to masturbate or watch porn (I'm not trying to make this about porn) either. To me this was mind blowing. I don't mean to trigger anyone but I am curious. Is it common for women who withhold sex to also try to control what their husbands do with "it" when they are by themselves? I guess it just seems that much more cruel to me.


What kind of ****ed up woman is that? Seriously

That sounds like a dictatorship

And if she thinks the guy is not jerking off left and right she must be completely stupid.

WOW


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Did I just read above that it sounds like a "d1cktatorship"? :rofl:

Sorry, I couldn't help it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BostonBruins32 said:


> no point in being married other than having a child together. If I didn't have a child, good night. For the sake of a child, I'm trying.


That being the case, I presume you're pretty happy having very little sex in your marriage. Which I might add is perfectly fine if you both like that.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

If the friend is married to a sex/porn addict it is not uncommon for masturbation to be off limits since the spouse needs to relearn how to be intimate with a real person all over again(or for the first time in some cases). 

Porn will only continue to add to the problem so none would be allowed as part of a treatment plan. 

Limited sex also comes into play as the partner needs to learn how to be truly intimate outside the realm of sexual means. 

I don't know all the facts about your wife's friend and her husband, but sometimes it's not as cut and dry as a wife being needless cruel. And while she may share some things with your wife I am pretty dang sure admitting that her husband has a porn addiction or sex addiction (depending on which doctor you ask) wouldn't be something she'd be likely to share. Too much shame for that. 

Just saying normal is a setting on my dryer and has little to do with RL. For that couple maybe that is their normal. Without many more facts to go with what you know there is no way of knowing.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Personal said:


> That being the case, I presume you're pretty happy having very little sex in your marriage. Which I might add is perfectly fine if you both like that.


His child is important to him. Some people feel that their children is their greatest responsibility. Because he feels this way and is trying to make it work then he must be happy having very little sex in his marriage? Are you trying to instigate? No, my guess is he is walking around a very wounded man but he is dealing with it the best he can for the sake of his child.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I responded to BostonBruins32 post, considering the fact that his wife wants to have another child. So have come to the not unreasonable conclusion that if they are going to potentially have another child he has accepted and made peace with the fact that he will continue in an infrequent sexual relationship. Presuming he has made peace with this, I hope he will be happier.

As to your inference that I have no comprehension of responsibility for children through your following quote: "Some people feel that their children is their greatest responsibility."

I am happy to inform you that I continue to have a terrific marriage with my wonderful, sexy and very willing wife.

Where our wonderful children grow up in a safe, stable, nurturing, loving, intellectually plus physically stimulating environment, where they are well provided for, in which they thrive.

Fortunately for our children we don't pretend we have a happy marriage when we don't, that kind of truth can't be kept hidden.

Considering your relationship as described by you elsewhere, If I were you. I wouldn't presume to imply that someone who is raising great kids and has a successful marriage, knows nothing about responsibility to children. We are doing it right, how about you?

Are you trying to instigate?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Personal said:


> As to your inference that I have no comprehension of responsibility for children through your following quote: "Some people feel that their children is their greatest responsibility."
> 
> I am happy to inform you that I continue to have a terrific marriage with my wonderful, sexy and very willing wife.
> 
> ...



I was not implying that about you at all ... I have read your posts. I am very happy that you can do it 'the right way' because you are so awesome and those of us in sexless marriages are apparently screwing everything up. No, what I was doing was questioning your motivation for that post. Obviously, he is not happy with the situation. I am not happy with mine either but I am trying to do the right thing as I am sure he is as well.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Any woman (or person) that think they can dictate/control another human being as they please = indicator of a horrible person.

That's really sad to deny your husband from sex and expect him not to masturbate.

of course they will, she just won't know....as for sex, they will either end marriage or cheat.

can one really blame a man in that case? hmmm


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

DoF said:


> Any woman (or person) that think they can dictate/control another human being as they please = indicator of a horrible person.
> 
> That's really sad to deny your husband from sex and expect him not to masturbate.
> 
> ...


Blame? Yes. Understand? Yes. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, especially with kids in the picture. I used to tell my wife I got married to be monogamous, not celibate. I really think the French have it right on this, get a mistress and everyone's happy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Before Google we had Gopher.



And Lynx too. Pretty decent browser actually.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

My wife can express displeasure and make unhappy faces but I'll be dipped if she's going to forbid me to do anything.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> My wife can express displeasure and make unhappy faces but I'll be dipped if she's going to forbid me to do anything.




Shes got you locked out and you had enough and finally going to subcontract that portion of the relation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

DoF said:


> Any woman (or person) that think they can dictate/control another human being as they please = indicator of a horrible person.
> 
> That's really sad to deny your husband from sex and expect him not to masturbate.
> 
> ...


Well they do
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

treyvion said:


> Shes got you locked out and you had enough and finally going to subcontract that portion of the relation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hardly and if she ever does lock me out marriage is over and I'll subcontract all aspects of the relationship elsewhere.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I was not implying that about you at all ... I have read your posts. I am very happy that you can do it 'the right way' because you are so awesome and those of us in sexless marriages are apparently screwing everything up. No, what I was doing was questioning your motivation for that post. Obviously, he is not happy with the situation. I am not happy with mine either but I am trying to do the right thing as I am sure he is as well.


Personal, the punch line is that those of us in less than desireable marriages are trying . Some have accepted it. Some are working on it. I will not have another child with my wife unless something improves. As for the status quo, i owe it to my daughter to give my marriage a very fair chance. Then I owe it to her to walk away from my wife if we are unable to resolve. 

Make sense? It's about being able to look yourself in the mirror and day I did everything I could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Personal said:


> Although I honestly don't know what it feels like to live in a sexless marriage, I do know what a broken marriage is. I really believe none of us are better off when our marriages are broken.
> 
> I have friends who suffered and *still suffer even today because their parents stay together despite mutual loathing and disgust.* Their parents were absolutely wrong when they thought they could hide their loathsome relationships. The only people they fooled were themselves.


This, I believe, is at the core of our misunderstanding.

It is not always the case that a sexless marriage is the result of or results in mutual loathing and disgust. In no way do I loathe my wife. In no way, shape or form has she indicated that she loathes me. There is no animosity or tension between us. It is not pretend for the sake of the children.

I know very well THAT feeling. We were at that point when we separated. When it comes down to it, I knew that my daughters were better off with us apart than together and so I left. That decision was very clear and I would do it all over again in the same situation.

This is not so clear. I personally would be better off ending the marriage. Being in a sexless marriage is emotionally and physically unhealthy for me and I feel that daily. What is not clear is if my children are better off if we end the marriage. There are pros and cons to ending the marriage and how that will affect my daughters. I can convince myself of all the reasons why it would be better to end the marriage and ignore the rest but that would be a disservice to my children. That would be about me and not about them. This is what I mean when I say that some people feel their children are their greatest responsibility ... in the absence of situation where there is "mutual loathing and disgust" (a situation that it is obviously detrimental to the children), some may decide to stick it out for their children if after weighing the pros and cons they decide it is in the best interest of the children, even if it is not in their own best interest.

My own parents were not affectionate in my presence. I have no idea what their sex life was like or if they even had one. I'd only assume that they had one but there was no evidence one way or the other. They are old-fashioned that way. If it had any effect on me and my siblings, it is that we are all affectionate people. Certainly we do not loathe them for that aspect of our upbringing. No, what we loathe is that our mom was a certified b!tch, both physically and verbally abusive. We loathe that my dad didn't stick up for us or himself. That is NOT the situation in my household despite our sexless marriage. I did not marry my mom nor did I become my mom. The anger and resentment that I have over our sexless marriage is not directed at her and my wife for her part is pretty ambivalent about it.

Now what I haven't written about is what has happened over the last two weeks. After my "year of celibacy", I had the talk a two weeks ago Tuesday. I declared my intention to divorce and cut her a deal ... I would move to Texas and the only things I ask for in return is a divorce and that we manage it in a way that best prepares our children for it. It went completely against my plan and better judgement but it was sincere. I essentially got no response. I had another discussion a couple of days later. Again, very little response ... except a terse, "ok, fine ... leave". A week after the discussion, she comes to me and we have sex. We have now had sex as many times in the past week as we've had in two years.

I intercepted a text exchange between her and a friend. They obviously had been discussing it and her friend asked, "how did it go last night." My wife responded with, "really well, thank you." Her friend said something along the lines of "he is the man of the house and king (bleh), he has to be a priority." My wife responded with something along the lines of, "I have been really selfish. I have a lot to learn and improve on." Not exactly sure how to interpret that but there it is. Not sure what to do now. Having sex ABSOLUTELY puts a person in a completely different frame of mind. I have felt better this week about EVERYTHING than I have in years. In the back of my mind though, I worry. It's great but one week is not a trend. It helps mitigate to some degree but does not heal the torture I've been through. Why did it take her being convinced I have every intention of divorcing before she takes this aspect of our marriage seriously? She is clearly enjoying the sex, so ... why? If I thought there was even a 1% chance she could have been cheating and that is why she had no interest, I'd go into full investigation mode but there is nothing, at least since we've reconciled. Not even a yellow flag. So, part of me is ecstatic and the other part of me is highly skeptical, expecting the door to close on me again ... which is why I've been hesitant to say anything on here. I don't know where this is going.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I feel like the kid with the coke bottle glasses and ugly sweater sitting in the front of the classroom and has the answers.

Why indeed she does not want sex if she enjoys it?

SLA's. Her own internal Service Level Agreements.

Meaning, she will enjoy it but any effort to ramp it up to anything resembling a normal sex life will be met with resistance because in her mind she has a preset SLA and nothing will convince her to exceed it. In fact, she will prefer to not have sex at all if her internal SLA is in jeopardy.

Think of all the LD's who have a near universal constant SLA of once a month. How many resist the urge lol of more frequent sex?? Even if they expletive deleted like it?

There's a good way to find out of course 

The second is to see how fulfilling and meaningful it is for you. Do you see a change in attitude towards her after an encounter? If so, is it reciprocated? Can you use it to reignite some passion?

I thought - in vain - that things would improve (good one Dr. J, good one) and played along. Then I realized that I would be totally devoid of any good feelings towards her in the morning - what I described as a virtual ONS. At that point I threw in the towel....

So, your next task should be to find meaning in the physical act beyond pleasure, and aim to determine her natural SLA.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Now what I haven't written about is what has happened over the last two weeks. After my "year of celibacy", I had the talk a two weeks ago Tuesday. I declared my intention to divorce and cut her a deal ... I would move to Texas and the only things I ask for in return is a divorce and that we manage it in a way that best prepares our children for it. It went completely against my plan and better judgement but it was sincere. I essentially got no response. I had another discussion a couple of days later. Again, very little response ... except a terse, "ok, fine ... leave". A week after the discussion, she comes to me and we have sex. We have now had sex as many times in the past week as we've had in two years.
> 
> I intercepted a text exchange between her and a friend. They obviously had been discussing it and her friend asked, "how did it go last night." My wife responded with, "really well, thank you." Her friend said something along the lines of "he is the man of the house and king (bleh), he has to be a priority." My wife responded with something along the lines of, "I have been really selfish. I have a lot to learn and improve on." Not exactly sure how to interpret that but there it is. Not sure what to do now. Having sex ABSOLUTELY puts a person in a completely different frame of mind. I have felt better this week about EVERYTHING than I have in years. In the back of my mind though, I worry. It's great but one week is not a trend. It helps mitigate to some degree but does not heal the torture I've been through. Why did it take her being convinced I have every intention of divorcing before she takes this aspect of our marriage seriously? She is clearly enjoying the sex, so ... why? If I thought there was even a 1% chance she could have been cheating and that is why she had no interest, I'd go into full investigation mode but there is nothing, at least since we've reconciled. Not even a yellow flag. So, part of me is ecstatic and the other part of me is highly skeptical, expecting the door to close on me again ... which is why I've been hesitant to say anything on here. I don't know where this is going.


I want to respond to you properly, yet I won't really be able to until next week. That said, this news and the rest has brought a smile to my face.

Of course I concur it's too early to tell, at the very least though what has happened is very encouraging.

I hope you and your family have a great weekend.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow, taking a stand, and sticking to it, really seems to be paying off. 

High five, JSGW!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jld said:


> Wow, taking a stand, and sticking to it, really seems to be paying off.
> 
> High five, JSGW!


Thanks. I think that bothers me a bit though. It isn't as if I hadn't talked to her numerous times and told her that the the consequences of a sexless marriage is divorce. That the choice is to fix it or divorce. The difference this time was that I told her I was done and divorce was happening. This is no longer about fixing it. I quit. I'm not asking for sex, I am divorcing. I don't care, I just want out. Only then did she take it seriously. I don't want to invent problems ... god knows, we've had enough to last me a lifetime ... but that feels like a problem to me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Thanks. I think that bothers me a bit though. It isn't as if I hadn't talked to her numerous times and told her that the the consequences of a sexless marriage is divorce. That the choice is to fix it or divorce. The difference this time was that I told her I was done and divorce was happening. This is no longer about fixing it. I quit. I'm not asking for sex, I am divorcing. I don't care, I just want out. Only then did she take it seriously. I don't want to invent problems ... god knows, we've had enough to last me a lifetime ... but that feels like a problem to me.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Actions always speak louder than words. I guess even though you just used words, they seemed more real to her this time. She must've felt your conviction through the words.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not sure that sex in the face of divorce is success.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm not sure that sex in the face of divorce is success.


You don't think it is an effort by her?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm not sure that sex in the face of divorce is success.


I agree. However, if there is a genuine change in her attitude and the new behavior continues, then there is no need to divorce. The intercepted text seems to indicate that possibility, at least. If the situation reverts more than briefly, however, then he should actually follow through with divorce.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> You don't think it is an effort by her?



No.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree with MBH. I think she was just waiting for some leadership, and she finally felt it.

I think she is sincere.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> I agree. However, if there is a genuine change in her attitude and the new behavior continues, then there is no need to divorce. The intercepted text seems to indicate that possibility, at least. If the situation reverts more than briefly, however, then he should actually follow through with divorce.



Maybe. I like the texts but I'd still be very Leary. I suspect as soon as she thinks the coast is clear she'll stop the sex again. He'll have to keep the threat active to keep the sex. I simply don't believe this is coming from a place of love. It's coming from a place of desperation.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She said she was selfish. I think that indicates some self-awareness, otherwise known as humility?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I intercepted a text exchange between her and a friend. They obviously had been discussing it and her friend asked, "how did it go last night." My wife responded with, "really well, thank you." Her friend said something along the lines of "he is the man of the house and king (bleh), he has to be a priority." My wife responded with something along the lines of, "I have been really selfish. I have a lot to learn and improve on." Not exactly sure how to interpret that but there it is. Not sure what to do now. Having sex ABSOLUTELY puts a person in a completely different frame of mind. I have felt better this week about EVERYTHING than I have in years. In the back of my mind though, I worry. It's great but one week is not a trend. It helps mitigate to some degree but does not heal the torture I've been through. Why did it take her being convinced I have every intention of divorcing before she takes this aspect of our marriage seriously? She is clearly enjoying the sex, so ... why? If I thought there was even a 1% chance she could have been cheating and that is why she had no interest, I'd go into full investigation mode but there is nothing, at least since we've reconciled. Not even a yellow flag. So, part of me is ecstatic and the other part of me is highly skeptical, expecting the door to close on me again ... which is why I've been hesitant to say anything on here. I don't know where this is going.


Sometimes you have to risk a think to save a thing. Well done.

My advice? Become the best, most awesome dude you can be and enjoy screwing the hell out of your wife.

For you.

Because awesome dudes deserve it.

Who knows? She just might get swept away in your passion and lust for her and enjoy it. More.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

marduk said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > I intercepted a text exchange between her and a friend. They obviously had been discussing it and her friend asked, "how did it go last night." My wife responded with, "really well, thank you." Her friend said something along the lines of "he is the man of the house and king (bleh), he has to be a priority." My wife responded with something along the lines of, "I have been really selfish. I have a lot to learn and improve on." Not exactly sure how to interpret that but there it is. Not sure what to do now. Having sex ABSOLUTELY puts a person in a completely different frame of mind. I have felt better this week about EVERYTHING than I have in years. In the back of my mind though, I worry. It's great but one week is not a trend. It helps mitigate to some degree but does not heal the torture I've been through. Why did it take her being convinced I have every intention of divorcing before she takes this aspect of our marriage seriously? She is clearly enjoying the sex, so ... why? If I thought there was even a 1% chance she could have been cheating and that is why she had no interest, I'd go into full investigation mode but there is nothing, at least since we've reconciled. Not even a yellow flag. So, part of me is ecstatic and the other part of me is highly skeptical, expecting the door to close on me again ... which is why I've been hesitant to say anything on here. I don't know where this is going.
> ...


Lol, thanks. It will be difficult to be more awesome than I already am .... but I'll try 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My awesomeness meter just crashed. First 15 mile cycle ride today, down 6 lb in 2 months with little change in eating, my prototype blew up a week before a $100m sale at stake demo to a very important customer, my butt hurts like Bigfoot punted a touchback on it from cycling, and I just spent $1k on a new washer. 

To quote Dr. J2, "my mind is busy right now" :rofl: I must be turning LD


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

What kind of washer, john?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> My awesomeness meter just crashed. First 15 mile cycle ride today, down 6 lb in 2 months with little change in eating, my prototype blew up a week before a $100m sale at stake demo to a very important customer, my butt hurts like Bigfoot punted a touchback on it from cycling, and I just spent $1k on a new washer.
> 
> To quote Dr. J2, "my mind is busy right now"
> 
> ...


Lol, I can relate. My car was totaled last month and the insurance company is low-balling me on the settlement so we are still going back and forth. That was the good car. I'm down to one car and yesterday, the transmission starts acting flaky in my wife's car and is now locking down ... can't go more than 45mph. It is ancient so depending on the size of the bill, I may be buying two cars at the same time. Car appointment on Monday. Really need my wife's car to last another year. My dog ate an entire bag of dove dark chocolate this week and spent the night at the emergency vet ... that episode cost about a grand. School is starting in a week and the bills for all the activities and accessories and books and etc. are coming in. Work is as crazy as ever. That and all the marriage drama has my head spinning. I'm still awesome though 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> What kind of washer, john?



My first washer was a GE top loader - transmission blew up at 7.5 years. Replaced with a Maytag Neptune that self destructed at 4.5 (we had extended warranty so they gave us a free...)

Siemens top of the line front loader. Same as the Bosch AXXIS I think. Lasted 8.5 years and lots of loads. Lots and lots. Cleaned clothes very well, very efficient, and only self destructed a month ago (bearing and outer tub). 

Replacement likely a Samsung...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

We have an Asko. I love front loaders with an internal heating element! :smthumbup:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey my car burned up in april I mean I was on fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xy0tRcml4U
I'm almost famous don't know who filmed it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jld said:


> She said she was selfish. I think that indicates some self-awareness, otherwise known as humility?


I had to comment on that. There really is no better way to put this except she is a selfish person. She freely admits it. She will tell you that we waited so long to have children because she knew she was selfish and immature. When we separated, one of the reasons is that we were at an impasse about where the children should go to school. She homeschooled and while I originally agreed to it, she was doing such a poor job that I eventually got to the point that I demanded they be put in school. My girls are quite bright but they were falling behind. She refused ... not because of what was best for our children but because she had built her life around it. I made it a condition of reconciliation. They are now in school and thriving. She has lost friends because of it. It isn't immediately obvious but they eventually figure it out. While her mom was here for a month just recently, they were constantly butting heads. Her mom kept pointing out how selfish she is and at one point told her she is the most selfish person she knows. Now my MIL is an extremely selfish person. You know ... pot kettle black apple falling tree, lol. She is full of contradictions and well, nuts ... but she wasn't wrong. I might add that when I separated, both my MIL and SIL contacted me to let me know that they understood and that they were very concerned about her behavior.

The thing is ... my wife knows she is flawed, as we all are. She is not proud of it. She does have humility and I do not doubt her sincerity in wanting to improve herself.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Hey my car burned up in april I mean I was on fire
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy crap! Actually that is almost awesome. Sounds like a very bad day ....

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

JSGW, are you two in MC right now? Or are you starting it soon?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jld said:


> JSGW, are you two in MC right now? Or are you starting it soon?


Not at the moment. We were in MC during our separation. I know it helped me but she was pretty defiant. She pretty much put up her 'wall' and treated it as counseling for me. So ... it was productive for me but not at all helpful for our marriage. She may be more willing at this point to be engaged in it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

The best way to approach sexless marriages is as follows. 

1. Make sure you haven't done anything wrong. Women look at the whole picture and if they are not happy, nothing going on. Be candid with yourself. 

2. Make yourself better. Improve your appearance, work out, get better clothes. If you can get her a little jealous, that would be great because women take their cues from other women. I remember in college being a regular guy but once I had a girlfriend, her friends suddenly found me more attractive. A man likes a restaurant and might be bothered by a wait; see a crowd and other people liking the place, women suddenly become more interested because they take their keys from others. 

3. Do not approach the sex issue directly. if you do you'll get an answer like this. I'm so sorry honey, but I just have not been in the mood. It doesn't do either one of us any good to fake it or pretend and I hope this will get better in the future. My apologies, now that's out of the way, I need you to go to the store pick up some milk, eggs, and tampons, and after you finish that, you need to clean the garage. 

4. Instead, you NEED TO PLACE SEX WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP AND DISCUSS AT THAT TIME. 

Try to subtly think of things she likes to do. Go on vacation, tell him maybe not this year, you're just not in the mood. You may want to have a big fight but that will be about the entire relationship. You need her to understand that, the two of you can't be happy, have things go on as if they are normal, and no have a normal love life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Not at the moment. We were in MC during our separation. I know it helped me but she was pretty defiant. She pretty much put up her 'wall' and treated it as counseling for me. So ... it was productive for me but not at all helpful for our marriage. She may be more willing at this point to be engaged in it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I think it would be a good idea.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Not at the moment. We were in MC during our separation. I know it helped me but she was pretty defiant. She pretty much put up her 'wall' and treated it as counseling for me. So ... it was productive for me but not at all helpful for our marriage. She may be more willing at this point to be engaged in it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Not sure if this helps at all..and not sure its fair but..

We entered MC about 9 months ago, stopped after 3 months when the topic turned to her past and her behavior. She treated it like something I needed. 90% of conversation around why I do what I do, etc. Very little about her and our marriage functioning together. Felt really unfair. I expressed it but moved on.

Fast forward a few months. I take all adivce serious. Dive in 100%. Change. Improve. 

Recently she threw me a tirade on something completely uncalled for, that I had no blame in. I calmly told her she isnt allowed to talk to me like this and I said "please remember it wasnt acceptable for me to talk to you like this, and you had me seek counseling for this type of attitude and temper". 

She stopped in her tracks and appologized, and in fact i thought she was going to cry.

So my point is dont be afraid to take counseling for what it is. If it seems to only be focused on you, take your lumps and improve. It may have a back handed way of helping you further down the road. Or helping her further down the road.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

If you focus on "fixing" the other person, you're missing the point of marital counseling.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

JSGW, are you suspicious at all that she wants to move to Texas and she might be sexing you up to get you to make the move? Once you move there your marriage will go back to sexless. Have you investigated the difference in divorce laws in Texas and where you live? 

Sorry to be jaded but I see how much my SIL manipulates my BIL and I guess I'm always suspicious of sudden changes that don't stick. I've read you story from the beginning and I just think you deserve to be happy.


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## mbarembare2 (Nov 28, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

john117 said:


> And Lynx too. Pretty decent browser actually.


Seems like lots has gone way off-topic, but I actually usually use Lynx to browse TAM via a remote server to avoid leaving obvious traces.

One odd side-effect is that all the smilie gifs are presented as "" so you'll see things like "I'm so sad " or "He cheated on me " and it's quite strange.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

jld said:


> If you focus on "fixing" the other person, you're missing the point of marital counseling.



Agreed, you fix yourself and if your partner still doesn't like the best you you can be, you move on and find someone who will.


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