# Not thrilled with our sex life



## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

My DH and I have been together for 11 years. We love each other dearly and I can't even fathom life without him. However, I have a fairly high sex drive, and his isn't quite as active. I can live with that, we have sex very often so just because I don't get sex every time I'm in the mood shouldn't make me unhappy. What is bothering me though is the sex itself. He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without that and gotten used to it. He loves receiving oral though, and for a long period of time too. I don't mind giving at all, but that's basically the only foreplay involved. His idea of initiating sex is to grab my breast, like really? So basically he grabs my breast, kisses me a bit, and expects oral before three to five minutes of intercourse. I'm bored. I've told him I want more foreplay, and one time he actually would stop intercourse to do so and actually change positions. It was great, like a half an hour great, but it was once. One time. He knows I like rougher sex, but very rarely does that happen, and I mean like every six months or longer. The other night I was left completely unsatisfied and just pulled away from him completely for the rest of the night. He tried initiating sex last night but I said no. I was in the mood, almost always am, but I just couldn't go through the same thing again. I didn't want to get mean with him and that would have been a possibility should that have occurred. I would hate to treat that sweet man badly. I just don't know what else to do. Telling him multiple times hasn't worked. So frustrated!!!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Remee81 said:


> I just don't know what else to do. Telling him multiple times hasn't worked. So frustrated!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too, jut listening to this..........

Many men would love to have a wife like you.

I presume you have asked him why?

He sounds lazy, sated...and selfish!

If you did ask him, what did he say. This might be revealing.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Me too, jut listening to this..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've asked him why he doesn't put more effort in, and he acts like he doesn't have a clue what I'm talking about. Other times he says he understands and tries once to be more attentive but then just goes back to the old routine...it's seriously like a scripted thing. The same thing time and time again...


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The standard questions.

You say he knows, but how did you let him know? Do you have open talks with him where you tell him exactly what you want and just how really frustrated you are?

Have you considered leaving him over this? Would you be sure to tell him if you were thinking that before you took action?

Open and honest communication is often missing. Yes, spouses sometimes need to learn to care. Who knows.

It all starts with saying what you think, without being shy.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

"He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without that and gotten used to it. He loves receiving oral though, and for a long period of time too."

Have you ever asked him how he would feel if you never gave him oral? Then ask how he thinks you feel about him never offering you oral? How does he explain this discrepancy of his receiving every time but his never giving?

Until you make it clear that there will no longer be such an inbalance, he will continue as you have always allowed.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> The standard questions.
> 
> You say he knows, but how did you let him know? Do you have open talks with him where you tell him exactly what you want and just how really frustrated you are?
> 
> ...




I let him know by telling him we needed more foreplay, that just grabbing my breast isn't exactly a turn on or showing any effort. He says he understands but nothing changes, he grabbed my breast the other night, looked at me and smiled. I was not amused. As for telling him EXACTLY what I want, no. I have said I like it when he takes charge, it's obvious when he's forceful I am very pleased. I know it's obvious to him, he said as much. I'm not sure how much more I can explain to him. 


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Abc123wife said:


> "He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without that and gotten used to it. He loves receiving oral though, and for a long period of time too."
> 
> Have you ever asked him how he would feel if you never gave him oral? Then ask how he thinks you feel about him never offering you oral? How does he explain this discrepancy of his receiving every time but his never giving?
> 
> Until you make it clear that there will no longer be such an inbalance, he will continue as you have always allowed.




Yes he is discussed by it, always has been. This started way before me, so it's not something about my body, the idea of it literally makes him sick. That's never going to change, but that would be fine if he would be sexual in other ways. Lots of other foreplay out there and he just doesn't bother. Example: one day I was on the shower when he got home from work. The kids were there and he wanted some one on one time with me, so he joined me. We kissed and cuddled but the kids being there made anything else a no no. (They came in twice asking questions, and they are old enough to understand privacy they just ignore it lol). So on a day they were with their other parents I got in the shower when he was about to get home, and asked him to join me. He did, but other than the same thing from the last time, he wasn't receptive. 


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Surely you know that a man needs to be told specifically what is needed? Just to say you want more foreplay isn't going to work. It's like saying please do some housework.Men need to be asked to do certain things. Be specific.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Surely you know that a man needs to be told specifically what is needed? Just to say you want more foreplay isn't going to work. It's like saying please do some housework.Men need to be asked to do certain things. Be specific.




This will be difficult for me, I am so shy about actually talking about sex with him. Lord knows why, he knows me better than anyone. I do agree though. I think I need to get a glass or two of wine in me and just say it. If he doesn't get it then, I'm going to thump him over the head. Let's just hope he doesn't give me a great time once and grab my breast again SMH.


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## Finwe (Nov 5, 2015)

Have "the talk" when you are calm and in a neutral setting. Let your needs be known. You could buy a book on how to please your wife --- with a sly wink.

Most of the time these talks go well and sometimes they go south.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Finwe said:


> Have "the talk" when you are calm and in a neutral setting. Let your needs be known. You could buy a book on how to please your wife --- with a sly wink.
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the time these talks go well and sometimes they go south.




The book is a good idea....didn't think of that!


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

OK then, you need to be more direct with him.

How about something like this:
You: Honey (or whatever term of endearment you feel comfortable with), you love oral, right?
Him: Oh yes!
You: How would you feel if I never tried that on you or if I always refused that for you? Would you think it grosses me out or that I just didn't like doing it for you?
Him: Yeh, that would upset me because I love it and I would hate that you weren't willing to give me what you know I really like.
You: How do you think I feel that you have never even tried to give me oral?
Him: I never thought about it. I assumed you didn't want or like receiving oral.
You: No, I would love to receive oral too. But since you have never attempted it, I assume you are grossed out by me, like I smell bad or taste bad.
Him: ??? (He might say he doesn't like doing oral, has had bad experiences with giving it, or he has never tried before so he isn't sure what to do, etc)
You: Well, I don't want the inbalance to continue. I won't be providing oral to you until we figure this out...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Why did you marry such a selfish lover?

Okay, here is what you try first:

Tell him you are going to touch him and get him aroused the way you want him to touch you. Stroke the back of his leg up to his butt and ask him if he felt a tingling, or anything positive? Continue to touch him and arouse him exactly the way you want him to touch you and occasionally stop and whisper that this is what you would like for him to do. You should do this is several different scenarios, such as both already in bed, making dinner and you seduce him during dinner, in the morning, in the shower..etc. you are training him to notice the effect of touch and how different touches feel different and sometimes even the same touch feels different depending on the mood.

If you've done all of this and he goes right back to his blundering grab ass ways. Stop him, every single time he does the grab ass and pump. Every single time. Every single time. When ever he gets lazy.

Also, buy these and make him read them:

https://www.amazon.com/She-Comes-Fi...id=1495645254&sr=1-3&keywords=she+comes+first

https://www.amazon.com/Just-****-Me...8&qid=1495645340&sr=1-1&keywords=Just+****+me


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Go the other route. Take your pants and underwear off, climb on the chair or on the couch and say, eat it or I will find someone else who will!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

one effective method, ONLY give him oral with 69. the moment he stops licking, so do you. Call it "the incenive plan"


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Remee81 said:


> Yes he is discussed by it, always has been. This started way before me, so it's not something about my body, the idea of it literally makes him sick. *That's never going to change,* but that would be fine if he would be sexual in other ways.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is crap of him. He finds giving oral to a woman to be disgusting, BUT a woman putting his **** in her mouth, her shoving it down her throat with an ocassional gag reflex, and letting him blow a load of snot-like substance in her mouth is not disgusting? 

He needs to see a sex therapist to get over his issues of finding the female form disgusting. Until he learns to give as good as he gets, he shouldn't be getting anything and definitely no oral for him!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Remee81 said:


> I let him know by telling him we needed more foreplay, that just grabbing my breast isn't exactly a turn on or showing any effort. He says he understands but nothing changes, he grabbed my breast the other night, looked at me and smiled. I was not amused. As for telling him EXACTLY what I want, no. I have said I like it when he takes charge, it's obvious when he's forceful I am very pleased. I know it's obvious to him, he said as much. I'm not sure how much more I can explain to him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's unfortunate men don't get trained in how to be good at being Dominant, instead of just being left to be selfish. 

From here I can't figure out where to go. My wife couldn't say what she wanted. It led to a lot of problems for us. And I was highly attentive, and Dominant. But I wasn't Dominant enough, and didn't understand just how submissive she really was. My wife is very kinky. We have figured it out now. I wanted to figure it out. I wanted to go there with her, or at least to know where she wanted me to go. 

So you are left with the selfish lover scenario.

Unfortunate. I can think of so many really fun things someone could do with a submissive woman.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Anon Pink said:


> Why did you marry such a selfish lover?
> 
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> 
> ...




Very good advice, I am going to stop him every time. We are making stir fry tonight...good idea. So going to buy books! Lol


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I could have written your post.
Everything is identical in my situation. Plus, we could still be considered newlyweds. I know how frustrated you must be.
I came to TAM for the exact same reasons. You may want to click on my name and read the threads I have started and/or particpated in. You may find some helpful advice in the content.

Sometimes I wish I could force myself to withhold BJs, but I can't keep my hands and mouth off of him. I'm crazy for my husband. I feel like you, because he says he gets nauseated by performing oral, I can't see demanding it from him. Would he try? Yes, he would. Would I enjoy it? I don't think so, because I could never focus on it, all I would be thinking is, "I hope he doesn't barf on me." I know the rejection would feel even worse if he tried it and starting gagging. I feel like it is probably better to take his word on it. 

Someone here suggested the book "She comes first" for my husband to read. My husband has literally NEVER read a book in his life...and still hasn't. It's on his nightstand and I dust it occasionally. When I get really pissy about our situation he says he is gonna read it, but I don't think he ever will. Maybe your husband will read it. If you wind up finding some success, please feel free to PM me anytime. I open to hear any suggestions. I hope you find some solutions. All my best.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Dagnabbit!

He has made you a Pineapple.

Pining for a lickin' Prikly Pear.

Pining for a suave broad-shouldered sweet pear with a nice pair, hanging down, ready and "willing to do anything" to get your apple to quiver and your flower to open its petals.

You may need to put this lemon in the compost pile.

Divorce is extreme, life is extremely short. 

Time wise, sex is two percent of a marriage. And is eighty percent of its satisfaction. 

Just sayin'


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Spicy said:


> I could have written your post.
> Everything is identical in my situation. Plus, we could still be considered newlyweds. I know how frustrated you must be.
> I came to TAM for the exact same reasons. You may want to click on my name and read the threads I have started and/or particpated in. You may find some helpful advice in the content.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead: :crying: :frown2:

Yes, Spicy, but your husband does other things to give you pleasure. He is doing a much better job than this ladies husband.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Sometimes the things women post in this forum, with respect to how much they enjoy giving BJ's, is so different from what I've experienced with my wife that I feel like I'm reading Penthouse Forum letters or something.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

For me, if I was not on the receiving end of oral when I happily give it...that party would be over. Let's ask the hard question, does your H find your vagina repulsive? Why? I know of no man that does not tickle the little man in the boat with his tongue and gleefully so. Specifically when directed to do so at the bidding of their partner. So what is the true story of you H not providing oral?


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Spicy said:


> I could have written your post.
> 
> Everything is identical in my situation. Plus, we could still be considered newlyweds. I know how frustrated you must be.
> 
> ...




I'm so sorry for what u r going through. I feel the exact same way about the giving and the getting. I couldn't enjoy it I would be so worried the whole time. He called from work just to say I've you, and I told him I ordered him a book, he has to read it, then we r going to talk. He said ok, and is terrified I want to leave him or something. I told him no need to worry but u. R. Reading. He said absolutely so here's hoping!!! I will let u know how it goes. Smack him over the head with that book!


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Yeswecan said:


> For me, if I was not on the receiving end of oral when I happily give it...that party would be over. Let's ask the hard question, does your H find your vagina repulsive? Why? I know of no man that does not tickle the little man in the boat with his tongue and gleefully so. Specifically when directed to do so at the bidding of their partner. So what is the true story of you H not providing oral?




No he doesn't, he said that he has tried "going down there" with past girlfriends but it was just horrible. He says he loves my body, and tells me that all the time. Always calling me the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. Personally I think he's crazy lol but hey I'll take it. Idk what he experienced that turned him off of that so badly but he is a person who is easily grossed out about anything. 


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Surely he knows that no two are the same right?

I've had some bad experiences. I've had some great ones.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> I'm so sorry for what u r going through. I feel the exact same way about the giving and the getting. I couldn't enjoy it I would be so worried the whole time. He called from work just to say I've you, and I told him I ordered him a book, he has to read it, then we r going to talk. He said ok, and is terrified I want to leave him or something. I told him no need to worry but u. R. Reading. He said absolutely so here's hoping!!! I will let u know how it goes. Smack him over the head with that book!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you!!!


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> No he doesn't, he said that he has tried "going down there" with past girlfriends but it was just horrible. He says he loves my body, and tells me that all the time. Always calling me the most beautiful thing he's ever seen. Personally I think he's crazy lol but hey I'll take it. Idk what he experienced that turned him off of that so badly but he is a person who is easily grossed out about anything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sheesh....ummm...if he loves your body there should be not one part of it unexplored by his probing tongue. But hey, that is just me. 

Perhaps you should ask what turned him off to oral.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I can't imagine a bad experience with cunnilingus. And in Remee81's case she'd have to have her wrists cuffed to the headboard so she would be forced to endure it through orgasm after orgasm. Poor girl. I know, the life of a submissive girl is tough, but somebody has to be tied down and take a lickin'. Followed by a nice long hard pounding to punish her for being so naughty. Naughty is a key element in my wife's thoughts, so I always make sure she knows she was very naughty.

All there is left is the idea your husband is selfish, and just doesn't care about you. Sad, but true. Now, how to fix that is tough.

Have you two been to marriage counseling? You should go. You could offer him the opportunity to go to marriage counseling before you divorce him, and see if he thinks saving your marriage is worth the effort. Maybe that would shake him up. You need to shake his world to the very core.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

No more oral for him until he reads the book and you're getting more foreplay!!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Remee81 said:


> My DH and I have been together for 11 years. We love each other dearly and I can't even fathom life without him. However, I have a fairly high sex drive, and his isn't quite as active. I can live with that, we have sex very often so just because I don't get sex every time I'm in the mood shouldn't make me unhappy.
> 
> What is bothering me though is the sex itself. He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without that and gotten used to it. He loves receiving oral though,
> 
> ...


A very bad trend. You love him and can't imagine living without him, but you are pulling away from him in bed and rejecting his sexual advances. How do you really think that trend will end if it continues and escalates?

As a man whose wife has never performed oral on me and yet promised me several times that she would, I feel our pain. The Sex Therapist that helped save our marriage worked with my wife on trying to get her to figure out why she found oral repulsive and if there were some steps that could allow her to try. Nope, has never happened and never will.

So I have found other things to focus on that we both enjoy. 

You can not change your spouse, only they can change themself. You can explain to them what you would like, you can change behaviors you will tolerate, but at the end of the day, only your spouse can change themself. 

There is a huge difference between telling something to someone verbally and having them really understand what you want to the point that they may think of trying to do it. This is in regards to the foreplay issue. If I were you I would give up on the oral, I have. Lord I have tried. 

As to foreplay ask yourself if there is anything you might have done over the years to "condition" him into the kind of foreplay you now don't like. You say you like rough sex and he knows it. How have you taught him to initiate such sex? Maybe he thinks that is how he should always have sex with you? 

My suggestion is to either got with him to a sex therapist or to do what sex therapists often do and that is hit the reset button. That is stop having sex for a given period of time, then through sensate focus exercises reintroduce sensual touch giving, sensual touch recieving, "making out," foreplay, and ultimately intercourse. Us it as an opportunity for both YOU and HIM to unlearn old habits/techniques and learn new ones. Then make sure you reinforce his new learned behaviors.

Good luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

toblerone said:


> Sometimes the things women post in this forum, with respect to how much they enjoy giving BJ's, is so different from what I've experienced with my wife that I feel like I'm reading Penthouse Forum letters or something.


There are loads of men and women who don't like to give or receive oral sex.
Neither of us are bothered about it, we prefer other things. If my husband didn't like giving me oral and I did, I wouldn't expect him to. Just as he wouldn't if there was something I didn't like. It's not all about what we want, but what we can both enjoy together. 
Don't let what others think and say make you discontent. I hardly think that a tiny number here are representative of all people.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Don't think for a minute any of my discontent is driven from what I read here.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> I can't imagine a bad experience with cunnilingus. And in Remee81's case she'd have to have her wrists cuffed to the headboard so she would be forced to endure it through orgasm after orgasm. Poor girl. I know, the life of a submissive girl is tough, but somebody has to be tied down and take a lickin'. Followed by a nice long hard pounding to punish her for being so naughty. Naughty is a key element in my wife's thoughts, so I always make sure she knows she was very naughty.
> 
> All there is left is the idea your husband is selfish, and just doesn't care about you. Sad, but true. Now, how to fix that is tough.
> 
> Have you two been to marriage counseling? You should go. You could offer him the opportunity to go to marriage counseling before you divorce him, and see if he thinks saving your marriage is worth the effort. Maybe that would shake him up. You need to shake his world to the very core.




I need ur sex drive in my husband lol yes I am thinking of none of this works coinciding is going to be needed. He will go, he has said if we ever needed it, that it would be good.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> A very bad trend. You love him and can't imagine living without him, but you are pulling away from him in bed and rejecting his sexual advances. How do you really think that trend will end if it continues and escalates?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you, therapy is something I am looking into. I am unsure if I may have conditioned the initiation of sex. We r going to have an in depth talk soon and I am going to find out exactly what is going through his mind.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> However, I have a fairly high sex drive, and his isn't quite as active. I can live with that, we have sex very often so just because I don't get sex every time I'm in the mood shouldn't make me unhappy. What is bothering me though is the sex itself.


Stop for a moment and consider how hard it is to try something new and having a predisposition to think that you will not be good at it. 

An example would be me asking you at @Remee81 to perform magic acts and stunts. You know you are not very good and I get really frustrated because you are reluctant to do these for me all the time. So at some point I stop being your friend because you have become unwilling to do magic and stunts for me. I feel as though I have now asked too many times and you will just not give me what I want. So now I am not even going to bother to ask you anymore.

Now take a moment to consider what would happen to your confidence levels to actually stand any chance to get interested in magic and stunts. Odds are you would just feel completely inadequate, know that you have let me down, and feel extraordinary anxiety towards most things related to magic and stunts.

In order to change things in your marriage you have to be the one willing to take the initiative to try something new. Perhaps fail at it a few times and demonstrate that failing can actually be fun, because the two of you are learning something new. So my point is that you have to give your husband a license to fail if he tries something new sexually with you, and try to find a way to make failure rewarding somehow. 

That sounds counterintuitive, but if we only are willing to do what we know works, it is because we have lost our confidence to try something and still have fun knowing that it may fail. 

Google images of "flugtag" and you will see the spirit of what I am suggesting! Now imagine how boring that would be if people took everything so seriously and only tried things that they know would work. There would be nothing fun about it and everyone's attempts would look exactly the same. 

Badsanta


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Remee81 said:


> I need ur sex drive in my husband lol yes I am thinking of none of this works coinciding is going to be needed. He will go, he has said if we ever needed it, that it would be good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If he is willing to go to a therapist, make sure it is a sex therapist. That is the area that you need help with it seems so be sure you get the right specialist.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think you have a selfish lover. They come in both genders, and it seems difficult to change them. 

Some people truly enjoy pleasing their partners. Its not a chore, its something that they actively want to do - though they are also very happy to receive pleasure in return. They need only a little guidance / hints because they are actively trying to discover what their partners most enjoy. 

Others enjoy receiving pleasure in sex but try to get away with as little "work" as they can. They get no enjoyment from pleasing their partners and only do it in order to get sex in return. 

I don't know if this can be changed. You might pressure a selfish lover into doing more in response to the threat of stopping all sex, but I don't think you can make them enjoy it. 

It puts you in a difficult spot. You *could* withhold sexual activities - but you enjoy doing them. 


Its sad how many people think oral sex on men and oral sex on women is "completely different". That one is reasonable and expected and the other nasty / awful etc. Somehow though the ones that think it is different are happy to receive but not give. My wife thinks BJs are abusive and disgusting - but is happy to receive oral. The OPs partner things oral on women is disgusting but is happy to receive BJs. 

A bad sex life will cast a shadow over the rest of your relationship. I wish I had a suggestion on how to improve it.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife and I wish you well, indeed. She really enjoyed your response to my post!

As was said, a sex therapist may be what you need.

And sadly, the post about some people just being selfish lovers and not changing may have some validity. I don't know. I have spent my whole life trying to find ways to turn my girl on. She has been a tough nut to crack, because she absolutely believes I must be a mind reader.

The more kinkier things didn't dawn on me until after she made a mistake. Then it took a couple years for the turmoil to settle. I guess that's why I always start off with saying be sure to communicate!


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> My wife and I wish you well, indeed. She really enjoyed your response to my post!
> 
> As was said, a sex therapist may be what you need.
> 
> ...




The mind reader statement rings true. I am so shy, actually saying the things I want to him gives me anxiety. I guess it's a fear of rejection, that he won't understand why I am the way I am. So I say little things that hint at what I really want, I have to figure out how to just tell him. 


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It depends on how he reacts to suggestions.

It doesn't take many "why would you want that" responses to make someone never want to suggest anything ever again. 

With a good sexual partner, a suggestion is eagerly accepted as a a new way to have fun. With a selfish partner it can be seen as another unreasonable "demand".

It is worth telling him but be prepared for it to fail. 







Remee81 said:


> The mind reader statement rings true. I am so shy, actually saying the things I want to him gives me anxiety. I guess it's a fear of rejection, that he won't understand why I am the way I am. So I say little things that hint at what I really want, I have to figure out how to just tell him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Mary says: Oh! Poor babe. 

She understands completely.

That's exactly how she always feels. Even though I spent all my life trying to pry information out of her. She was extremely reluctant to ever give me even a hint. Most of what I learned was from her body language and reactions.

I didn't explore far enough in the beginning of our marriage, and she screwed up. All hell broke loose, and in the end she was diagnosed with a psychological illness. During the bad times I did learn a lot more about her. I sometimes wished she could have talked to me to let me know, so she wouldn't have become bored. But she is what she is, and I love her. 

She still can't tell me much, but a little more than before. I have to learn nearly everything by exploring and watching her reactions. For us it works, because I really enjoy watching her reactions!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Remee81 try looking at porn until you find what you like. You could even start a tumblr blog and just reblog the stuff you like. Pictures, stories and videos

After you have curated your collection watch it with him and show him. Make it a joint sexy exploration


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Mary says: Oh! Poor babe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah I'm at the moment trying so hard to talk to him and it's not going far but farther than before u spoke about ur experience and ur wife. Thank you a lot of people just can't understand 


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife's illness is not related to her submissiveness.

As it turns out my wife was the victim of physical and sexual abuse as a child, then a very traumatic event, Conversion Therapy, when she was 14. She is a Pathological Liar as a result of all this. The psychiatrists do not find any other disorders, but they only suggest coping mechanisms and not a cure for her illness.

We don't think her submissiveness is related. It's a separate thing. Right after we got married she started showing me how submissive she was, and I guess I am naturally very Dominant. While she was undergoing therapy one of the things she did was enlist the aid of one of her therapists to tell me to be more Dominant. I thought that was pretty creative on her part. I think by that time she was just making sure I knew how vital it was to her, because we had already taken it pretty far.

I try to be the best trustee of her welfare that I can be, since she gives herself to me completely. Because of who we each are, I guess, we have a synergy which makes the bond stronger.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> My wife's illness is not related to her submissiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I too have been through so much, that without him I don't know where I would be. I lost the closest person to me, watched him die, and it broke me. I have anxiety and depression and PTSD. He has been there through all of it. He keeps telling me I can tell him anything, that he would never reject me. Let's hope it's true cause over the next few days, we r going to find out!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I swear, after reading this site for a while, it seems like there needs to be classes for men to become better Dominants.

It seems like there are so many submissive women who need to find Dominant men who will love them and be compassionate, loving, attentive, and thorough in making sure their submissive's needs are met. 

My wife picked me because I am extremely Dominant. She says she could tell I would be very compassionate and caring. I don't see how she could tell that. She has worked hard in her own sneaky way to get me to treat her the way she needs to be treated. Which in her case can be pretty rough. That's what I hadn't thought of before.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> I swear, after reading this site for a while, it seems like there needs to be classes for men to become better Dominants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am nervous he will tell me he's not wired that way, although he has clearly liked being rough in the past so here's hoping. He, too is compassionate and caring. I know he wants me to be happy, I hope he finds it makes him happy too.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Remee81 said:


> ...... He, too is compassionate and caring. I know he wants me to be happy, I hope he finds it makes him happy too....


You could have a lot worse problems. Your glass is more than half full. 

Work with him to find something that makes you both happy. I really encourage you and your H to sex help from a sex therapist.

Good luck.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> You could have a lot worse problems. Your glass is more than half full.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

As for being wired that way, I just don't think there should be a problem. I do a lot of things for Mary that don't turn me on, but there are a lot of hours in the evening.

We compromise on things. We play a lot every day. I meet her needs, then I satisfy myself with her compliant and highly responsive little body. Once she has had a few orgasms she is great fun for more vanilla sex.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Remee81 said:


> I'm so sorry for what u r going through. I feel the exact same way about the giving and the getting. I couldn't enjoy it I would be so worried the whole time. He called from work just to say I've you, and I told him I ordered him a book, he has to read it, then we r going to talk. He said ok, and is terrified I want to leave him or something. I told him no need to worry but u. R. Reading. He said absolutely so here's hoping!!! I will let u know how it goes. Smack him over the head with that book!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One day I got super extra pissy about it all and threw the book away. He saw it in the garbage and fished it out and put it back on his nightstand. I probably bought it close to a year ago, and he has said over and over that he is going to read it. :frown2:

I hope your hubby does. You may end up with a success story on your hands. I would be so happy for you!


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> :scratchhead: :crying: :frown2:
> 
> Yes, Spicy, but your husband does other things to give you pleasure. He is doing a much better job than this ladies husband.


In bed? Extremely minimal, but he is listening, learning and trying. Outside of the bedroom he makes me very happy most of the time. We have our stubborn moments like every couple, but overall I love our life together.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Is your husband physically fit ?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WilliamM said:


> I swear, after reading this site for a while, it seems like there needs to be classes for men to become better Dominants.
> 
> It seems like there are so many submissive women who need to find Dominant men who will love them and be compassionate, loving, attentive, and thorough in making sure their submissive's needs are met.
> 
> My wife picked me because I am extremely Dominant. She says she could tell I would be very compassionate and caring. I don't see how she could tell that. She has worked hard in her own sneaky way to get me to treat her the way she needs to be treated. Which in her case can be pretty rough. That's what I hadn't thought of before.


Or understanding the difference between domineering and dominant, because they are easily and often confused.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Remee81 said:


> I let him know by telling him we needed more foreplay, that just grabbing my breast isn't exactly a turn on or showing any effort. He says he understands but nothing changes, he grabbed my breast the other night, looked at me and smiled. I was not amused. As for telling him EXACTLY what I want, no. I have said I like it when he takes charge, it's obvious when he's forceful I am very pleased. I know it's obvious to him, he said as much. I'm not sure how much more I can explain to him.


He sounds like a troglodyte. He's selfish as hell, too.

Why on EARTH you'd continually put all your efforts into pleasing a selfish man who has NO regard for your pleasure is honestly just beyond me. He sounds like another of those miscreants who got their sexual 'education' from porn.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> Is your husband physically fit ?




His work is very physical so yes but not an exerciser


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> He sounds like a troglodyte. He's selfish as hell, too.
> 
> Why on EARTH you'd continually put all your efforts into pleasing a selfish man who has NO regard for your pleasure is honestly just beyond me. He sounds like another of those miscreants who got their sexual 'education' from porn.


My God women!

Lighten up! Chill.

Remove the [*Queen of Hearts card] from your purse.

You need a man to tie you to your bed.

And tickle you silly. Tickle all the bile out of your spleen.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Some men are just not comfortable in bed. Some are unfit and find it difficult. Others have psychological hang ups. And most are just plain dumb!


First find out where he is most comfortable when fooling around - it might not be in bed. It might be over a table or some where else (maybe even outdoors). This is where he will be relaxed at generating sexual excitement and will probably be at his best when it comes to foreplay and taking his time.

Find out what he physically finds difficult to do - many men are simply not supple or flexible enough to do certain things. Stretching, yoga etc can help.

Then find out if he has any psychological hang-ups - associating "down there" with being unhygienic etc. Or the texture or smell. Sweet smelling lubes and sweet tasting lubes can help.

As for his dumbness - straight forward education (educational videos that you watch together that border on porn) is what is needed here.

There is more to this than meets the eye.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

And between play-dominance in bed and real dominance. Between strong and controlling. Helpful and submissive. 





farsidejunky said:


> Or understanding the difference between domineering and dominant, because they are easily and often confused.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> Some men are just not comfortable in bed. Some are unfit and find it difficult. Others have psychological hang ups. And most are just plain dumb!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We talked last night a bit, and one thing we both agreed on is that we have sex in the same place, the same way, every time. And it's BORING!! We talked and he mentioned something he wanted to do location wise that he has said in the past but I thought he was kidding. Really did, like omg u want to have sex on the four wheeler in the woods near our house. Terrifying but he seems to really want that. Guess I'm going four wheeling this weekend lol but yeah like we talked about the shower situation and he wants me to join him in the shower, actually have sex in bed when the kids aren't at home. It's usually the living room cause we can lock the door to the upstairs where the kids are sleeping.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Ok so we talked a bit last night. I was replying to another reply and I didn't see him over my shoulder, he read that he wasn't being dominate enough. He sat me down and made me talk to him. It was difficult, and I didn't open up like he wants me to, so shy about it, but we made some progress, he's going to read the book I bought, wants to try different things and says he will try to be more assertive. He says he's not sure he can, I've seen him get turned on when he has been assertive and saw my reaction. I'm thinking he's not going to have a lot of issue there. I think we just need to get more into my wants for him to understand, which is going to suck cause talking last night was not comfortable for me at all!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Or understanding the difference between domineering and dominant, because they are easily and often confused.




Yes. It's very hard to explain to people. I am extremely self confident, but I really have no interest in controlling any one else. That's something my wife endeavors to teach me. I gave her the book to read, Women Who Love Too Much, and she trumped me by getting her psychiatrist to lecture me about accepting the wonderful gift she is giving me, herself. 

But after her illness was diagnosed I realized I had no chance. So I try to do the best I can at making sure all her needs are met while I fulfill the role she requires of me. 

It's not how I thought my life would be. But God works in mysterious ways, as my wife says. She says God made me to take care of her. I will not argue. I am very happy fulfilling this role. Mary is an amazing woman, faults and all. She strives every day, in many ways, to show me how much she loves me.

My life did not go as I planned. In the end it came out better.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> The mind reader statement rings true. I am so shy, actually saying the things I want to him gives me anxiety. I guess it's a fear of rejection, that he won't understand why I am the way I am. *So I say little things that hint at what I really want,* I have to figure out how to just tell him.


 @Remee81 while I don't want to be sexist and say something that suggests that males and females are not equal... Men are sometimes just not good at hints! So unless you are very direct and spell it out to him exactly what you want (perhaps even hold up a few diagrams and try to demonstrate), it may be safe to assume that he is probably has absolutely no clue as to what you actually want.

As for fear of rejection, I completely agree that is difficult. Perhaps you want to have a conversation with your husband beforehand that you about to describe in detail what you need from him. Also explain that you have a very strong fear that he may reject these ideas and ask him if he can be loving and patient with you. This will let him know what you are about to describe needs his attention and for him to care about it.

Also as per my previous post, you also need to explain to him that it is perfectly OK for him to try something different and for it to perhaps be a little awkward. Try to indicate that what is important is that he just try and be a good sport about it and be playful with you even if something might be a little uncomfortable.

I will warn you, that he might get excited and start joking a little about something. When I do this my wife always accuses me of making fun of her and she immediately withdraws. Meanwhile I was just legitimately excited to find out that she likes something that was very easy for me to do for her. So in the event he does try something new and starts giggling, assume that it is joyful laughter of him enjoying to finally to make you happy as opposed to judgmental laughter of him thinking you are silly.

Hope that helps...

Badsanta


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Remee81 said:


> We talked last night a bit, and one thing we both agreed on is that we have sex in the same place, the same way, every time. And it's BORING!! We talked and he mentioned something he wanted to do location wise that he has said in the past but I thought he was kidding. Really did, like omg u want to have sex on the four wheeler in the woods near our house. Terrifying but he seems to really want that. Guess I'm going four wheeling this weekend lol but yeah like we talked about the shower situation and he wants me to join him in the shower, actually have sex in bed when the kids aren't at home. It's usually the living room cause we can lock the door to the upstairs where the kids are sleeping.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seeeee! Not only location but also the other things - try scented lubes etc. He will soon become the sexual animal that he is!!!

Great progress. Good luck and stay safe (flexible and discreet).


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

badsanta said:


> @Remee81 while I don't want to be sexist and say something that suggests that males and females are not equal... Men are sometimes just not good at hints! So unless you are very direct and spell it out to him exactly what you want (perhaps even hold up a few diagrams and try to demonstrate), it may be safe to assume that he is probably has absolutely no clue as to what you actually want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It does help thank you. Last night I did start out with "I am terrified of rejection" and he said that was understandable but would never reject me. We r going to continue talking, and yes I know what u mean, I have to be specific, or he won't obviously know what him being more assertive actually means, because it could mean a lot of different things lol. We made progress, it was very hard, but I know that we r going to be better for it, and I know he is willing, even wanting, to improve our sex life. I'm not as scared anymore or as disheartened because I see things getting better, I just need to gather the courage to open my darn mouth! 


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> We talked last night a bit, and one thing we both agreed on is that we have sex in the same place, the same way, every time. And it's BORING!! We talked and he mentioned something he wanted to do location wise that he has said in the past but I thought he was kidding. Really did, like omg u want to have sex on the four wheeler in the woods near our house. Terrifying but he seems to really want that. Guess I'm going four wheeling this weekend lol but yeah like we talked about the shower situation and he wants me to join him in the shower, actually have sex in bed when the kids aren't at home. It's usually the living room cause we can lock the door to the upstairs where the kids are sleeping.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh my yes...mix it up. My W and I purchased a chaise lounge for our bedroom for well..a specific reason and it ain't for sitting. :grin2: We will start in the bed and end up on the screw me hard chaise lounge. Often times the family room gets action provided the family is not around. :wink2: So yeah, if you want to put the 4-wheeler suspension to the test because H wants to...go for it. Hell, sex outside is well...just fun. Hell, one day the stairs to our second floor saw action. 

It is up to you two to make it great. :smthumbup:


EDIT: realize the talking you are having with your H is opening a new door to your marriage. The sex will bring you very close. Things will be much deeper between you two. Just need to let it happen and be apart of the new awakening.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> Ok so we talked a bit last night. I was replying to another reply and I didn't see him over my shoulder, he read that he wasn't being dominate enough. He sat me down and made me talk to him. It was difficult, and I didn't open up like he wants me to, so shy about it, but we made some progress, he's going to read the book I bought, wants to try different things and says he will try to be more assertive. He says he's not sure he can, I've seen him get turned on when he has been assertive and saw my reaction. I'm thinking he's not going to have a lot of issue there. I think we just need to get more into my wants for him to understand, *which is going to suck cause talking last night was not comfortable for me at all!*


I have had some conversations with my wife about some odd things that I enjoy and that I wanted to try to incorporate into our intimacy. In my situation I have to admit the things I like almost make absolutely no sense to my wife, so I had to be ready to explain. Once I explained "why" I wanted to try something so that my wife could understand, and it turns out she does not mind one way or another for us to do what I requested in particular. For her it was mostly important to for her to try to understand why I wanted to do something different more so than actually being OK with doing it on a regular basis. She now enjoys us doing a little something different because she knows how much I enjoy it and she is happy to please me. As for her in regards to lovemaking, my request makes no difference to her as long as I am the one to take charge of it and just enjoy doing something a little different whenever I desire it. 

A big part of me would want her to take charge of it, but it does work out better if I take responsibility for my odd desires in the bedroom. 

The same works for her. When she wants something different, she shows me rather directly and I am happy to please her. 

As for my wife, she mostly does NOT like me asking a bunch of questions while we are being intimate. So we usually discuss in detail what is OK and not OK in general outside of the context of being intimate. Then once the moment comes we can both be very confident with one another and know what to do once one of us gives a very clear nonverbal indication to the other as to what we each want. 

So while it may not be easy to have these discussions during the day, it is usually well worth it later when you are in the moment and can be confident with one another about certain things. 

Badsanta


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Dealing with potentially submissive people can be very difficult so you'll have to lead him in his dominance.

I don't know if my w likes to be submissive at all... but she wants me to lead. If I push a bit she accommodates. But I can never tell if she is accommodating because she thinks I want it or because that's what she wants.

Simple things like if we're in bed talking - if I gently push her head down she'll go down on me. Does that mean she WANTS me to push her more? Did she respond for me or her? Is it more exciting to be taken on my whim versus on mutual movements in that direction?

My w definitely isn't fully submissive - she makes that clear - but that doesn't mean that a bit more domineering by me at times wouldn't be welcome.

On the other hand IRL she holds her own so it's not clear that the bedroom is different.

Anyway my point is that you may have to exaggerate your enjoyment - panting or whatever submissive signals you can muster - to show him you want more.

Good luck



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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Dealing with potentially submissive people can be very difficult so you'll have to lead him in his dominance.
> 
> I don't know if my w likes to be submissive at all... but she wants me to lead. If I push a bit she accommodates. But I can never tell if she is accommodating because she thinks I want it or because that's what she wants.
> 
> ...




Understandable because I, too am not a meek woman outside the bedroom. I'm not afraid to speak my mind to people, if u don't want to hear the truth, don't ask me because I will be blunt. I've made a third grade teacher cry when she messed with my kid. So yes, I have to make sure he understands. I have to be more open in that respect.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> It does help thank you. Last night I did start out with "I am terrified of rejection" and he said that was understandable but would never reject me. We r going to continue talking, and yes I know what u mean, I have to be specific, or he won't obviously know what him being more assertive actually means, because it could mean a lot of different things lol. We made progress, it was very hard, but I know that we r going to be better for it, and I know he is willing, even wanting, to improve our sex life. *I'm not as scared anymore or as disheartened because I see things getting better, I just need to gather the courage to open my darn mouth! *



There is a lot written about the psychology of marital intimacy. One of the most profound things is to have the courage to let your partner "know you" for who you actually are as opposed to trying to be the person you think your partner needs you to be. 

There is often an innate fear that if someone reveals themselves fully that it may cause harm to the relationship, so this is more than often prevented as a means to protect the relationship. After a period of time it becomes more and more difficult just to be completely open about who you are to the people you are closest to.

It is important to break this pattern of behavior sooner than later and allow your husband to learn to love you for the ways you truly want him to love you. Otherwise people in this situation can only be themselves with people they do not care about in any way. This is why the dynamics of a one-night stand are so exciting to some individuals. 

Badsanta


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Remee81 said:


> What is bothering me though is the sex itself. He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without





Remee81 said:


> No he doesn't, he said that he has tried "going down there" with past girlfriends but it was just horrible.


So wait, your husband experimented with some random girlfriends, but won't benefit you (his wife) in the same way? That's extremely unfair on his part. OP, does this upset you? It would upset me.

As for advice in your case (very similar to mine, just opposite genders), I might be the worst person on the forum, as I've gotten absolutely nowhere with my wife on the same issue. She won't give oral, and she won't let me give her oral because she'll know that I'll expect reciprocity. Very sad for me... I actually want to go down on her, but I digress. Back to your problem...

Assuming you won't divorce over this, some of the best advice on this thread (IMO) is counting oral as a lost battle and focusing on other things, such as foreplay. As selfish and unfair as he is being, just move on. For foreplay to improve, you must move past your shyness and tell your husband what you want. Hell, you might have to take his hands and show him exactly what you want and where. 

Be bold. Be clear. Be patient. If your husband gives a damn about your pleasure, under these circumstances he should be teachable and your sex life will improve. If he doesn't give a damn about your pleasure, well, it may be divorce-worthy (for you to decide). 

Oh, and one more thing, if you enjoy giving your husband oral and that enjoyment outweighs the negativity of your unmet expectations around reciprocity, you should continue giving him oral. Stop giving him oral when the negatives outnumber the positives and you net an emotional loss (if that makes any sense). Good luck!


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

_anonymous_ said:


> So wait, your husband experimented with some random girlfriends, but won't benefit you (his wife) in the same way? That's extremely unfair on his part. OP, does this upset you? It would upset me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have set aside getting oral. I love giving it and he loves getting it. I can live without oral with other parts of our sex life get better. He is very willing to improve our sex life, and has even given suggestions himself of things he would like. I have to get into detail about my needs, he also said that, and not to feel anxious about it. He wants to talk more tonight, and I hope to be able to open up more to him. I also ordered a book for him to read that goes into my needs, so that should help too. I'm not even contemplating divorce, I am head over heels in love with this man. 


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Remee81 try looking at porn until you find what you like. You could even start a tumblr blog and just reblog the stuff you like. Pictures, stories and videos
> 
> After you have curated your collection watch it with him and show him. Make it a joint sexy exploration
> 
> ...


 I don't recommend looking at porn, surely the imagination is better and it doesn't involve others on the marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

_anonymous_ said:


> So wait, your husband experimented with some random girlfriends, but won't benefit you (his wife) in the same way? That's extremely unfair on his part. OP, does this upset you? It would upset me.
> 
> As for advice in your case (very similar to mine, just opposite genders), I might be the worst person on the forum, as I've gotten absolutely nowhere with my wife on the same issue. She won't give oral, and she won't let me give her oral because she'll know that I'll expect reciprocity. Very sad for me... I actually want to go down on her, but I digress. Back to your problem...
> 
> ...


Why is it that people must do things they hate?I would never expect my husband to do something that he didn't like. That would be just mean.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Remee81 said:


> Ok so we talked a bit last night. I was replying to another reply and I didn't see him over my shoulder, he read that he wasn't being dominate enough. He sat me down and made me talk to him. It was difficult, and I didn't open up like he wants me to, so shy about it, but we made some progress, he's going to read the book I bought, wants to try different things and says he will try to be more assertive. He says he's not sure he can, I've seen him get turned on when he has been assertive and saw my reaction. I'm thinking he's not going to have a lot of issue there. I think we just need to get more into my wants for him to understand, which is going to suck cause talking last night was not comfortable for me at all!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do a lot of things for Mary which don't turn me on, except in the fact it turns her on. 

It's a gift I give her, to make her happy. And I revel in her enjoyment. My wife does things like that for me, such as the occasional blow job. I don't take her up on that gift very often, but when I do I don't fool myself into thinking she's getting off on giving me a blow job. 

Mary told me once there's a reason they are called blow *jobs*. It's because they are real *work*! 

She gives me massages often. I know that's mostly work for her, and a gift to me. I accept that.

The least I can do is make sure her needs are met, even if it isn't something that turns me on.

There are plenty of hours in the day for me to do anything for her, and then for me to enjoy whatever I enjoy. Mary sure never runs out of energy.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Why is it that people must do things they hate?I would never expect my husband to do something that he didn't like. That would be just mean.


1. Porn doesn't involve others in the marriage. But we get it, according to you porn, fantasies, and non procreative sex are to be avoided. We get it.

2. No loving spouse would demand the other do something they _hate_. Her husband seems to love oral sex, he just doesn't like giving it. Seems he can get over his aversion when it involves his orgasm but not when it involves hers. I don't know about you but that doesn't seem very Christian to me.

3. Having a sexual hang up, or aversion to some specific sexual act, doesn't make for a very good marriage. Except in the unlikely event two prudes marry each other, then they can claim to have banging sex within the confines of their extreme limits.

Sex should be fun, explorative, and playful. If you have an aversion that prohibits any of those three, you should work on that.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I don't recommend looking at porn, surely the imagination is better and it doesn't involve others on the marriage.




OBVIOUSLY not as OP's H can't actually imagine what she wants. The man needs a road map. Have you ever been expected to dominate your partner @Diana7? How far did you go? Did you choke him a little? Did you use a little nasty language? Did you get rough, bend him over the bed and take him because you just felt like it? Was it too much? Was it too little? Did you humiliate him or just rough him up a bit? Were the ropes too tight? When did you get it exactly right? Do tell because we're all waiting to know how you imagined what your H had in his head.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I am reading this thread with extra attention as I have been/am going through something similar with my husband. He too is a great man - he is kind, is a loving husband, and a very involved and loving father and grandfather. He is my best friend and is totally devoted and loyal to me - to a fault. We have been married a long time and are in the empty nesters stage (most of the time - although they still tend to fly home with their own brood and stay (a little too long) now and then). Like the OP, I also love and adore my husband. Most people do - cause he is awesome in many ways.

Like the OP, I am struggling with our sex life right now too. I won't bore you with the long details of our marital sexual life, you can read them in my threads if you want to be bored to tears some night. Suffice it to say - I was a sexually repressed denier for almost 30 years. My husband just accepted it - and while he did what many husbands do who live in a sexual desert- kept trying to get sex as often as possible, accepted pity sex when offered, moped, pouted, masturbated as needed etc, etc - he never once discussed the situation head on with me the whole 30 years. But that is his way - he is very non-confrontational. In his words - he just assumed that most women were that way - and while not satisfied or truly happy - he just accepted it as his lot in life. 

A little over 10 years ago - I had a sexual awakening because of some hormonal changes that made me really really horny all the time - not from anything he did or didn't do. During this time, I dealt with my repression issues and for about 8 to 10 years explored sex a lot with my husband. I drove the exploration and he was happy to go along for the very pleasurable ride. And what a ride it was. It was awesome! We had some major frustrating bumps in the road brought on by menopause and the natural aging process but got passed them because I researched and found solutions and answers to most of them. We were like newly weds - we flirted, sexted, teased, touched, kissed, made out - etc. several times a day. It was great. During this time - we also focused on our health, we exercised and followed a lower carb diet and lost weight and kept it under control. Again, I also was the driver of that boat I was the navigator and my husband rode along with me. This is a common pattern of his personality - in case you have not figured this out yet. 

A couple of years ago, when we did a major remodel - which took almost a year (don't ask) - and at the same time had to deal with a very time consuming and emotionally stressful issue with one of our adult children, our eating healthy habits suffered, my husband quit exercising and let his weight spiral- he gained back all the weight he had lost plus added lot more - mostly around his middle and face. Somehow, I managed to keep my weight down by continuing to exercise and trying to eat mostly healthy the majority of the time.

During this time my sex drive started to wan because of the stress and I also was diagnosed with a health issue that I had to deal with. I just didn't have the energy to be the initiator. Plus - my husbands weight became an issue - which I admit was/is a major turn off for me and caused me to worry about his health. It also has had an effect on his sexual performance. 

So gradually I quit steering the boat - and hubby did what he always does - stayed in the boat with me and let it float where ever it went. I stopped exploring and initiating and our sex life has gradually diminished - from daily, to 3 to 4 times a week, to twice a week, to once a week - to now about twice a month. Neither of us are happy with where we are now. My husband tries to have sex more often - but his initiating tactics - for whatever reason - have the reverse affect on me - they totally turn me off. He knows that, but continues the same tactics, for whatever reason - and wonders why they don't work! (slap my forehead with my hand)

I know I have built up resentment issues over having to drive the boat in a lot of areas of our marriage (not just the sexual area). Don't get me wrong - he is very happy and willing to help - all I have to do is suggest - i.e. tell him what to do - over and over. He is an intelligent man, he has a good career and is well respected and liked by his co-workers. But in our home - he seems to want to be submissive and let me be in control. Perhaps I have conditioned him to be this way. Like I said he avoids confrontation.

Anyways - somehow this short version is getting long. 

Bottom line - I want my husband to take the lead in the bedroom at least some of the time. I would like him to make suggestions and try new things on his own - not just because I ask him too. I have given him all the books as I purchased them over the years and asked him to read them. He has read none of them to my knowledge. I suggest he try to be more dominant, he tries half heartidly a few things once or twice, but does not put much effort into it. I have told him the things that he does when he initiates that turns me off - but he still does them on a regular basis. Some of the problem is that these things turn him on. I am not sure how to handle that - when what he does turns him on - but does nothing for me but annoy me. ??? For example, He is a breast man and goes right for my breasts every time - kneeding them roughly with his hands. This gets him going. Since menopause - man handling my breasts does not feel good at all. I like my breasts - or more succinctly - my nipples played with gently and teasingly if they are lubricated AND I am aroused - and then more roughly when I am close to climax, but when not turned on - his grabbing them and kneeding them actually is a little painful. He knows this - has been told many times very directly - and sometimes not so nicely - yet he still does it!!! 

I just purchased the two books suggested. I am not optimistic that he will read them either. Right now I am at the point of not caring - and feel like if he won't get into the drivers seat for awhile - then so be it. We will float wherever - even back to the sexual desert. But this time - its on him. I like sex and want to have it more - but a reactive desire has to have something to react to! 

I love my husband and this is not a deal breaker in any way shape or form. It's a frustration - but one I will live with. We get along well most of the time - spend a lot of time together. He has a great sense of humor and makes me laugh. We have some fun hobbies we do together. So my glass is more than half full - and I do realize what a gem I have - even with the flaws. I am not perfect either and I am sure he can fill pages on my flaws and imperfections. So life goes on - just not much sex these days in that life. 

I don't have much in the way of advice to the OP - but I can relate and I do feel your frustration! I hope you find some answers - and i will keep reading looking for some answers of my own. Good Luck!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@mary35

No wonder we cross paths and seem to have very similar POV's, we're married to the same man, driving the same bus (or in your case a boat) and are not pleased by the passivity of our husbands.

We do have some differences in that I lucked out and just happened to get him a book about him for him before I got him any others. Since it was about him for him, he read it. No More Mr Nice Guy. He was shocked at how he embodied every single trait described.

I was able to get my husband to "Dom it up" in the bedroom and the results were quite satisfying. Like you, menopause and other events but the hault on my desire to drive the sex bus as well as every other bus (except financial, he has complete control on finances) in our lives together.

The basic issue we both have in our marriages is our husbands passivity compared to our drive. There is a great disparity between the two and that disparity is a problem. So I focused on his passivity and passive aggressive tendencies. It worked for a while but when my back was turned by other events he went right back to his normal state. It cause a complete snap and the tenuous connection broke. I now longer drive any mutual bus at all. 

Sexually, he is not as passive as your husband but his go to routine is not as off putting. We still have sex 4-6 times a month, where it used to be per week. That's okay. I can deal with that.

Anyway, I don't know any woman who satisfactorily solved this problem because, I believe, the problem is not ours to solve. The choices, as I saw it, were to alter our expectations and learn to be content or to lay it out in very plain language that passivity in this area won't be tolerated each and every time a half assed passive approach is made. 

The first choice is what I went with, sexually, because I like sex and want to have sex so I close my eyes and pretend the initiation sequence happened the way I liked it. But...I could make this choice because the bond/connection is gone and sex is just sex. There is no emotion involved. I am getting the equivalent of duty sex and as long as I get my orgasms, I'm okay with it. I'm not looking for, nor will accept love.

I don't recommend this choice because it is a slow death. If you still have some fight in you, I'd suggest you take the reigns and force him to read what you want him to know. Your husband is being selfish and you know it but aren't addressing it...because you love him and are defending him. Ask yourself if you knew something turned him off and something else turned him on, which choice would you make? Selfish. It is what it is and when you shed some light on his selfishness and name it for him, his passivity will now look more like passive aggressive vindictiveness because he knows you don't like it, but he is pissed at not being accepted unconditionally.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> OBVIOUSLY not as OP's H can't actually imagine what she wants. The man needs a road map. Have you ever been expected to dominate your partner @Diana7? How far did you go? Did you choke him a little? Did you use a little nasty language? Did you get rough, bend him over the bed and take him because you just felt like it? Was it too much? Was it too little? Did you humiliate him or just rough him up a bit? Were the ropes too tight? When did you get it exactly right? Do tell because we're all waiting to know how you imagined what your H had in his head.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




This is exactly why I need to really talk with him about what my needs r, because if he doesn't know, and went too far or something that would be bad. That and not having a clue would put me at a complete loss as to how to proceed. I have said I want him to be more assertive take control, he did yesterday. Grabbed me after I got out of the shower and left me with a smile  so it's a start!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Well, interesting read.

Let me say I am very Dominant. I guess my wife picked right. I initiated sex every day and never thought that was a problem. It was obvious from the first days of our dating Mary liked to be taken and I was always willing to take her. 

And I demanded she communicate with me. I always told her what I wanted, and asked what she wanted. But with her illness, pathological lying, and submissiveness she would not tell me. 

She allowed herself to get bored, and ended up having that one time fling. It could have been avoided if she had just communicated with me somehow.

During the time I was furious with her over the quagmire of lies she kept telling I finally lost my temper. I grabbed her by the hair and drug her to the bedroom, stripped her, and spanked her. The results of that amazed me.

If only she had talked to me before. I'm not wired that way. I never thought to try anything like that. Hurting her hurt me too. But I've learned to roll with it.

It's all about communication.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Well, interesting read.
> 
> Let me say I am very Dominant. I guess my wife picked right. I initiated sex every day and never thought that was a problem. It was obvious from the first days of our dating Mary liked to be taken and I was always willing to take her.
> 
> ...




Something similar happened with us. I didn't realize it myself, but I was just angry as hell and threw a gigantic fit, screaming at him for nothing really. He did the same thing, and not only did it calm me down, but we had great sex afterwards and my anger was gone. My mood was sexual frustration. This is one of the reasons I think he will be ok with being more dominant, because he was obviously really turned on by spanking me. He did so yesterday too, and I looked up at him in the mirror and he was staring at me, yeah he liked it...a lot lol


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Remee81 said:


> Something similar happened with us. I didn't realize it myself, but I was just angry as hell and threw a gigantic fit, screaming at him for nothing really. He did the same thing, and not only did it calm me down, but we had great sex afterwards and my anger was gone. My mood was sexual frustration. This is one of the reasons I think he will be ok with being more dominant, because he was obviously really turned on by spanking me. He did so yesterday too, and I looked up at him in the mirror and he was staring at me, yeah he liked it...a lot lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Pretty soon you will call your H what my W calls me after our sexual awakening as it were. Kinky Bast*rd. I wear it proudly


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

When I spanked Mary it didn't do a thing for me, but Mary went crazy with lust. She absolutely loved it. 

I discovered a little pain applied occasionally at the right time creates a real sexual rush for Mary. Not every night, but she starts finding sex boring after a few days without it. 

It's something I never would have thought of.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

@Anon Pink

I wrote my above post late at night when my frustration was getting the best of me. However, your response has given me some important reminders and things to think about and put my frame of mind back where it needs to be. So I thank you for writing it.

_*"I don't know any woman who satisfactorily solved this problem because, I believe, the problem is not ours to solve. The choices, as I saw it, were to alter our expectations and learn to be content or to lay it out in very plain language that passivity in this area won't be tolerated each and every time a half assed passive approach is made."*_

In a way you are right, but while it may not be my problem to solve - because it is causing problems between us - it is a problem I need to deal with in a way to keep the problem from damaging our marriage.

Yes - these are two choices - and while the last choice is not something I can live with - I very well may have to learn to alter my expectations and learn to be content. However, I have not completely given up on the idea that he can be persuaded and taught to at least meet me half way. But first I have to get my resentment under control - because at the moment I am turning the tables and practicing a little passive aggressive approach myself. Sooo not healthy - but at the moment it feels good! > 

While I did not think I was defending him last night - I guess I do think that perhaps I should give him the benefit of doubt that he is not purposely doing what he is doing and explore other reasons for it. Perhaps he simply is that clueless some times or his mind is on other things and he is just feeling the moment and doing what feels good to him - forgetting that I have told him those things don't feel good to me. Also because we are dealing with a lot of stress right now from making some major life changing decisions and transitions - I wonder if he is operating on overload - I know I am. Another factor I feel I need to take a look at is that like the OP - I am not always good at communicating my sexual needs with him. I tend to give him more of a don't list without supplementing it with a do list. So perhaps - I need to better communicate what i want with him. 

I do still carry a lot of guilt and regret over him having to deal with my repressed sexual issues and my not meeting his needs for so many wasted years - and i sometimes feel I don't have any right to complain about him not fulfilling my needs now so I hold it in until it builds up and then bursts out - usually in an angry or hurt way. Clearly this is not a healthy way to deal with issues or a good way to get him to hear me. Also in his defense, when menopause hit, my body changed and became really hard to read and took a lot of effort to get it to respond - heck sometimes I didn't know what I wanted or needed to get it to work. That is not the case any more -I am very responsive - when given something to respond to. But, maybe he feels I didn't appreciate the efforts he made and has built up some resentment of his own. Maybe he still carries some resentment for all the years I failed him sexually. He says he does not feel any resentment - but I find that hard to believe. Yeah - so maybe I am making excuses for him. Knowing him the way I do - I find it hard to believe he is doing this intentionally to get back at me - at least on a conscious level. Perhaps subconsciously that is what is happening. 

However - having said all of the above - I do think he has a tendency to be a lazy and selfish lover - not always but often enough, but so do I sometimes. I also know he has the capability of being a very caring and giving lover - and when we were/are in sync the connection was/is amazing. The past couple of years we have gotten more and more out of sync to the point where we are rarely in sync anymore - and I really miss that amazing connection with him. I think he misses it too. 

_*"The first choice is what I went with, sexually, because I like sex and want to have sex so I close my eyes and pretend the initiation sequence happened the way I liked it. But...I could make this choice because the bond/connection is gone and sex is just sex. There is no emotion involved. I am getting the equivalent of duty sex and as long as I get my orgasms, I'm okay with it. I'm not looking for, nor will accept love."*_

This paragraph made me sad, especially the last sentence! I AM looking for love and will not accept or stay in a marriage without it. Fortunately, I don't have too - because the one thing I do know is that we do still have a lot of love for each other. We both have our flaws, we both can be incredibly self focused and self centered at times - but when push comes to shove - I have no doubt we would cover each others backs. In spite of my resentment and frustration with our sexual life - I am still totally committed to making our marriage work. And I know without a doubt that my husband is also committed to me and our marriage. However, I have been around enough to know that enough resentment build up that is not dealt with properly can be a real love killer and can quickly destroy a marriage. And once love dies - it can be near impossible to rebuild it.

So - there in lies my answer - I just need to stop my own passive aggressive behaviors, deal with my resentment issues head on and try to work this out with my husband in a more healthier way! We have some long driving trips coming up - I will use the time to talk about these issues and see if together we can come up with some solutions that make our sex life better for the both of us. If we can't fix this - then I guess I will have to choose to accept him the way he is, accept what he is willing to offer sexually - and learn to be content. It's the least I can do - cause he certainly has had to do the same with me for way too many years of our marriage! Besides - as a total package, he really is a keeper, and I am not that big of a fool to let him go!!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> 1. Porn doesn't involve others in the marriage. But we get it, according to you porn, fantasies, and non procreative sex are to be avoided. We get it.
> 
> 2. No loving spouse would demand the other do something they _hate_. Her husband seems to love oral sex, he just doesn't like giving it. Seems he can get over his aversion when it involves his orgasm but not when it involves hers. I don't know about you but that doesn't seem very Christian to me.
> 
> ...


It's entirely possible to have a really good and varied and enjoyable sex life without one or two things that one or the other spouse doesn't like. I would say that most people have one or two things they wouldn't do that some others do. 

Being that we are both past childbearing age, your comment on non-procreative sex is crazy. Sex has so many other benefits apart from having children. It's fun and brings the couples closer together.
Porn does bring others into the marriage, many other people.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> OBVIOUSLY not as OP's H can't actually imagine what she wants. The man needs a road map. Have you ever been expected to dominate your partner @Diana7? How far did you go? Did you choke him a little? Did you use a little nasty language? Did you get rough, bend him over the bed and take him because you just felt like it? Was it too much? Was it too little? Did you humiliate him or just rough him up a bit? Were the ropes too tight? When did you get it exactly right? Do tell because we're all waiting to know how you imagined what your H had in his head.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't a clue who you asked me this, but he isn't into domination.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If its one or two things, I think you are generally right, but even then: wouldn't most people be unhappy with a partner who never engaged in PIV, or who never kissed?

Sometimes its a lot more than one or two things. Some people will turn down essentially every sexual activity that doesn't directly give them pleasure. 



Diana7 said:


> It's entirely possible to have a really good and varied and enjoyable sex life without one or two things that one or the other spouse doesn't like. I would say that most people have one or two things they wouldn't do that some others do.
> snip
> .


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

uhtred said:


> If its one or two things, I think you are generally right, but even then: wouldn't most people be unhappy with a partner who never engaged in PIV, or who never kissed?
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes its a lot more than one or two things. Some people will turn down essentially every sexual activity that doesn't directly give them pleasure.




Yes but that's not on debate here, oral really isn't the main point I was making either. It is possible, very possible to have a great sex life if one partner doesn't want to do a certain sexual act. I, for instance will never let DH anywhere near my butt, does that make me a selfish lover? Nope. I do other things to please him. That's what is being worked on here. Other needs I want fulfilled, if those needs r met, I won't even think of the fact that he doesn't do that one thing. That's what I am trying to work on being able to talk with DH about.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The non procreative sex thing is just a wide brush any Christian may get painted with. There are some Christian sects which do say that. The one my wife came from, for instance. Pentecostal. She tells me Mormon is also like that. Her biological father is Mormon. I heard her half brother tell me the same thing about Mormon, and he is Mormon.

My wife's half brother was proud of the fact he and his wife never have sex except when she is trying to get pregnant. This is, according to him, a tenant of faith within the Mormon church.

Unfortunately other Christians may get tainted by that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> If its one or two things, I think you are generally right, but even then: wouldn't most people be unhappy with a partner who never engaged in PIV, or who never kissed?
> 
> Sometimes its a lot more than one or two things. Some people will turn down essentially every sexual activity that doesn't directly give them pleasure.


Yes I am sure there are people like that, but some here are implying that if we believe that one or two things are not for us we are damaging the marriage. That's clearly crazy. Its all about compromise and thinking of the other person. If there was something I wanted but my husband felt really uncomfortable about it, there is no way I would pressure him to do it. It wouldn't worry me, there are many others things we can do that we both like.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WilliamM said:


> The non procreative sex thing is just a wide brush any Christian may get painted with. There are some Christian sects which do say that. The one my wife came from, for instance. Pentecostal. She tells me Mormon is also like that. Her biological father is Mormon. I heard her half brother tell me the same thing about Mormon, and he is Mormon.
> 
> My wife's half brother was proud of the fact he and his wife never have sex except when she is trying to get pregnant. This is, according to him, a tenant of faith within the Mormon church.
> 
> Unfortunately other Christians may get tainted by that.


Yes and that's really sad because God is clearly FOR enjoyable sex. There is even a book of the Bible all about erotic sex in marriage. Song of songs. 
It's certainly not what any Christian I have known believes. Maybe a few cults.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed.
I think sometimes in conversations people lose track that there are many points of view, not just to sides. So, they assume that because you agree with part of what a group of people says, you must agree with all of it. 

If there are things you both enjoy, that is great. I think the problem is when there is almost no overlap between things a couple enjoys. 



Diana7 said:


> Yes I am sure there are people like that, but some here are implying that if we believe that one or two things are not for us we are damaging the marriage. That's clearly crazy. Its all about compromise and thinking of the other person. If there was something I wanted but my husband felt really uncomfortable about it, there is no way I would pressure him to do it. It wouldn't worry me, there are many others things we can do that we both like.


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## bullyisback (May 23, 2017)

Yeah people still can be conservative in this with their spouse. No secrets should be kept in the bedroom no matter how nasty u are. U have to respect the others boundaries. If she doesn't like certain sexual things don't push it with her and if u are tell her n let her understand and she can make a decision how far she's comfortable.. Her n i are freaks nur we have limits 

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## Rooster2015 (Jun 12, 2015)

Remee81 said:


> My DH and I have been together for 11 years. We love each other dearly and I can't even fathom life without him. However, I have a fairly high sex drive, and his isn't quite as active. I can live with that, we have sex very often so just because I don't get sex every time I'm in the mood shouldn't make me unhappy. What is bothering me though is the sex itself. He doesn't perform oral, never has, so I've learned to live without that and gotten used to it. He loves receiving oral though, and for a long period of time too. I don't mind giving at all, but that's basically the only foreplay involved. His idea of initiating sex is to grab my breast, like really? So basically he grabs my breast, kisses me a bit, and expects oral before three to five minutes of intercourse. I'm bored. I've told him I want more foreplay, and one time he actually would stop intercourse to do so and actually change positions. It was great, like a half an hour great, but it was once. One time. He knows I like rougher sex, but very rarely does that happen, and I mean like every six months or longer. The other night I was left completely unsatisfied and just pulled away from him completely for the rest of the night. He tried initiating sex last night but I said no. I was in the mood, almost always am, but I just couldn't go through the same thing again. I didn't want to get mean with him and that would have been a possibility should that have occurred. I would hate to treat that sweet man badly. I just don't know what else to do. Telling him multiple times hasn't worked. So frustrated!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ifimbeinghonest (May 28, 2017)

Remee81 said:


> I've asked him why he doesn't put more effort in, and he acts like he doesn't have a clue what I'm talking about. Other times he says he understands and tries once to be more attentive but then just goes back to the old routine...it's seriously like a scripted thing. The same thing time and time again...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It sounds like he has low self esteem for bedroom activities. I have a little experience with that. This could potentially be solved by talking about it, but it will be over time. You'll basically be his teacher and that's not a bad thing. You could coach him along by reading parts of sex articles to him that talk about the same things you'd want him to do. Or show him different positions. You initiate, showing him what you want. Push his head down there, be dominate to show him where your interests are. If he's willing to please you in addition to being willing to be pleased, he will go along with it.

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## AussieRN (Mar 28, 2013)

Wait what!? Your vagina/clitoris is too horrible to lick and suck but its not so bad that he's happy to put a penis in there (and after its been in your mouth no less!).

Really? I mean Really?

He sounds lazy and selfish. Give him a taste of his own medicine even if you have to fake it. By this I mean something like jump on top, go at it wildly for a minute or 2, fake an orgasm if you have to, then get off and go watch TV or roll over and fall asleep.

And I would definitely be saying a big NO to going down on him until he changes his tune about going down on you (and putting some effort into it), or as another said only do it on the "Incentive Plan".


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

I would have to agree with the others on the oral sex issue. If mouths on genitals is so disgusting, then he shouldn't be letting you do it to him. If he wants oral, then he should be entirely willing to return the favor. It'd be selfish and entitled to do otherwise.

In regards to you having difficulty speaking to him about sex, if he's said he won't reject you, then you don't need to be afraid. What may help, is for you to put your thoughts on paper sometime when you're alone. Think about what you need, and write them down in a detailed fashion. When you sit down to speak to him, bring that list with you, it might help you articulate your thoughts.


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