# Help I'm stuck trying to reconcile my marriage



## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I'll try to summarize the last year of my life:

It started last year. My wife says she no longer loves me and reveals an EA (co-worker). Devastated I react like any other man in this situation and try to fix everything and go overboard. I check her emails and phone and as far as I can tell the EA is one sided and not physical. The next few months I try my best to address her needs. I educate my self (5 Love Languages, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Love Must be Tough, forums etc.). She feels awful about the EA and actively avoids talking to him.
Overall everything seems normal, we spend time as a family 2 kids (3 and 5 yrs.), we hold hands, hug, talk, complement each other, but no sex. Every time sex comes up she reminds me that there is no love and wants to separate. She leaves a few days here and few days there and comes back. We went to marriage counselling and started to see improvements, more intimacy, one sided, her touching me, but eventually broke down and stopped going.
She feels like she has no control over her life. I've tried a combination of Plan A (marriagebuilders) and 180 but every time I start seeing results we run into the intimacy issue again. This last break down I told her that I would like her to be there for me physically and that she can't just have me around as a friend. I've told her more than once that she is free to do whatever she wants. I won't stop her from leaving. But at the same time I've told that I believe in marriage and want us to be a family.

I can't find many resources on men in the situation I'm in. I keep trying these 180s but I keep falling every time she starts coming back to me.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or feedback on what to do next. I am completely lost. Every time I think I know what to do I falter.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> I'll try to summarize the last year of my life:
> 
> It started last year. My wife says she no longer loves me and reveals an EA (co-worker). Devastated I react like any other man in this situation and try to fix everything and go overboard. I check her emails and phone and as far as I can tell the EA is one sided and not physical. The next few months I try my best to address her needs. I educate my self (5 Love Languages, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Love Must be Tough, forums etc.). She feels awful about the EA and actively avoids talking to him.
> Overall everything seems normal, we spend time as a family 2 kids (3 and 5 yrs.), we hold hands, hug, talk, complement each other, but no sex. *Every time sex comes up she reminds me that there is no love and wants to separate. She leaves a few days here and few days there and comes back. * We went to marriage counselling and started to see improvements, more intimacy, one sided, her touching me, but eventually broke down and stopped going.
> ...


Where does she go and what does she do when she leaves?

Maybe the next time, you should take her up on her offer. When she leaves, let her know that the marriage is over if she does so. Call her bluff. Ask if she she has seen an attorney - and consider seeing one yourself. When she leaves, does she take the children or leave them with you?

Since you say that you have tried everything, it might be time for her to consider the consequences and file for divorce. You can always reconsider later since a divorce takes time before it is finalized, but filing for divorce might be the wake up call she needs.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

She usually goes to a hotel on her own and leaves the kids. Comes back miserable because she misses them. She's also stayed with a friend of ours once. We still live together. If I file for divorce, I'll have to follow through if she calls the bluff. I'm not ready to do that yet. But I guess I have to do something don't I?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> She usually goes to a hotel on her own and leaves the kids. Comes back miserable because she misses them. She's also stayed with a friend of ours once. We still live together. If I file for divorce, I'll have to follow through if she calls the bluff. I'm not ready to do that yet. But I guess I have to do something don't I?


And who is she staying with at the hotel without her children? And if she is so "miserable", why does she keep doing it?

It sounds like you are afraid that she will call your bluff, however, your marriage can't continue as it stands now can it? And what about her filing for divorce, since *she* is the one who wants to end it (at her convenience).

Yes, unless you are enjoying the situation now (and clearly you are not), you just may have to end the charade. The marriage as you knew it is over. You can ride this out, but you will end up divorced eventually. Your other option is to end *this *marriage, and maybe in the process she will realize that she is losing you for good. This might clear her head, or it might not, but you really have no choice and the sooner the better.

Good luck to you. I feel your pain. But sometimes you have to look out for yourself and your children, with or without her.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Seems like your approach worked to a certain degree, a few times even... but then you push for sex and you're back to square one...

Maybe you expect major results too fast... different women are wired differently so it could be that for your wife (LD anyway?), sex is not on the menu before you guys connect emotionally in a larger degree than you got to achieve yet...

So I would stay the course and not push for sex anymore, for the time being... she knows you want sex, let her initiate when she's ready.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Yes, that is the dilemma. File for divorce or continue. Have any other men here been through anything similar? Did your partner come back to connect with you again intimately after being apart for a long time?


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

tryingpatience said:


> I'll try to summarize the last year of my life:
> 
> It started last year. My wife says she no longer loves me and reveals an EA (co-worker). Devastated I react like any other man in this situation and try to fix everything and go overboard. I check her emails and phone and as far as I can tell the EA is one sided and not physical. The next few months I try my best to address her needs. I educate my self (5 Love Languages, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Love Must be Tough, forums etc.). She feels awful about the EA and actively avoids talking to him.
> Overall everything seems normal, we spend time as a family 2 kids (3 and 5 yrs.), we hold hands, hug, talk, complement each other, but no sex. Every time sex comes up she reminds me that there is no love and wants to separate. She leaves a few days here and few days there and comes back. We went to marriage counselling and started to see improvements, more intimacy, one sided, her touching me, but eventually broke down and stopped going.
> ...



You can't combine the two. 

Plan A and the 180 are two distinct and incompatible tactics.

Either one standing alone has its pros and cons. They will conflict with one another should you attempt them simultaneously and you will end up with a big handful of regret.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

tryingpatience:

Was she ever in love with you? What were the early days like?
Describe the evolution of the marriage.

Was it a case of 'she was never really in love with you, just got married' or was it a slow devolving decent into the present state?

Does she really think the grass is greener in another pasture?
You sound like a pretty good husband. what is your self critique?
Where do you think you went wrong, or did you?


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

syhoybenden:
Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. Basically what I've been doing was addressing her complaints (wrongly labelled Plan A) i.e. doing more house work, spending more time at home etc. and at the same time not chasing, not begging, trying to be happy on my own (180).

jorgegene:
In counselling she said the last time she felt love was after our first born. After the EA was addressed she did say she loved me but quickly back tracked. We are really good friends, she says that I am her best friend, and we've known and dated each other for a long time, since high school. After our second was born I did not meet all her needs but I wouldn't say I was really neglectful. I have address those issues these last couple of months. There was a time after our first that we were having a lot of sex and that resulted in our second. The sex was part of what she said she never had control over. She had a hard time saying 'no' to me because she was always afraid to disappoint me. I had no idea that she felt this way until our initial marriage break down. I haven't been pushing for sex this past couple of months. I've been giving her space. But it does come up once in a while when I can hold it in any longer.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

The only resource you need is for a lawyer for your divorce and a locksmith to retool your doors on your house.

For Gods sake man, she's walking all over you and your letting her.

Maybe you believe in marriage but in order for that to happen, you have to have one. 

Next time she skips out for a few days tell her not to come back. That will give you the time to find an attorney and be done with this mess.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I don't buy plan A. She needs to be doing more, not you.

I also don't buy that she isn't having fun nights at the hotel, either.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

From your brief description, sounds like she's lost her attraction to you, and when you change your behavior to become more attractive and it starts to draw her in, you display non-attractive behaviors again...i.e. neediness for sex. Along the lines of what EasyPartner said above.

You also may "think" you are fully meeting her needs...but it doesn't sound like it to me. If you were, she may not necessarily be wanting to have sex with you still, but she definitely wouldn't be running off all the time. She'd feel too good to want to risk being away from you. That's the first step. The second step is focusing on you behaving more attractively again, once you KNOW you're meeting her needs. And you will KNOW. She'll tell you, and her actions will back it up. 

Obviously you can work on those two steps simultaneously, but she needs to have that emotional connection first, her emotional needs fully met before she can allow herself to display her attraction to you, to be safe and comfortable enough. Did she ever say why she was drawn to the OM? It doesn't matter a great deal, but it could help shed some light. My guess is that it was "needs" related way more than attraction. Again highlighting that you were not anywhere near meeting her needs in the right ways.

Calle Zorro has a great program on how to properly meet your wife's needs and how to become attractive to your wife again, including shut down and blocked wives. If you really get into it, it can be a little costly, but so is divorce and counseling etc. The subscribers forum there is a critical component too, full of guys who have been through all kinds of situations and understand all the material, and successfully came through. Some of the advice is going to be similar to what you've already seen here and in other materials, but far more comprehensive and a very clear "blueprint". Some of it will be an entirely new perspective to you too. It's all centered around strong values - character, integrity, responsibility, respect, love, etc.

In my opinion it's your best bet. It's no quick fix, and it requires a lot of work from YOU. But it's also work ON you, FOR you. The beauty of it is that it helps you become the kind of man who can move forward in your life, positively, one way or the other. You'll be a far better man with or without her. Hopefully with her of course, that's the goal.

It also requires -zero- effort or input from her. She doesn't even need to know you're doing it. But she WILL notice and she WILL respond. So long as you ruthlessly stick to the principles, you will become the man of her dreams again. It will then be up to her to decide to embrace that or not.

my two cents, good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Your wife clearly told you she doesn't love you.
She already cheated on you.
And is unwilling to have sex with you.

And you STILL think you can reconcile?

You clearly gave it your all, your wife is done....what she has done or how she did it is now irrelevent. It's time to move on, close this chapter of your life and find someone that will treat you better.

You don't deserve this.

PS. Keep children COMPLETELY out of this. You being in an unhealthy relationship is as bad on them as no marriage. And to your advantage they are still too young to really understand.....so it should be easier.

Last advice, I would gather as much evidence as possible before pressing any buttons, and of course try to reach a mutual agreement with your wife/with no lawyers involved (cause the second that happens expect 5-15k going to them....from EACH of you).

Good luck


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Was her withdrawing from you regarding sex mentioned in counseling? If so, what did the counselor say about it? 

Marriage and sex go together. She is denying you and herself a whole relationship.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> Was her withdrawing from you regarding sex mentioned in counseling? If so, what did the counselor say about it?
> 
> Marriage and sex go together. She is denying you and herself a whole relationship.


To be honest, I'm not sure if I would want sex if I was OP right now.

I would probably ask for STD test first......

There is a GOOD reason why she is not sexual with him. 

Probably just in it for the kids at this point.....while doing her own thing on the side.

Think about this for a second OP. She had an emotional relationship with her co worker. Someone that she works with and sees EVERY DAY.

One would have to be REALLY naive to think that nothing physical happened yet......I'm sorry, I don't buy it. Put yourself in her shoes. If you don't love your wife and your co worker lady already showed you that she is ready to bang......how long can you keep it in your pants?

yeah

If she ever offers it, this usually means her other relationship is going sour.

If you do choose to be sexual with her again, protect yourself......and ask her for STD test (this is nothing to play around with).

I stand by my original advice, time for divorce!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't buy into the whole it's final in her mind yet. I do think she's confused, but I don't think that has been thoroughly dealt with in counseling. They need to work through that. She's affectionate in all other ways except actual sex. 

He's willing to work past whatever was going on with the co-worker to get on the same page as his wife. That's should be validated.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

tryingpatience said:


> She feels like she has no control over her life. .


What do you think this means?
This means that she still wants another man, but for whatever reason she cannot have him. IT could be impractical. It could be he doesn't want her.

You don't have to go straight to a divorce. But, you do have to act differently then you are currently acting. 

The current situation is this. She cheated. You took the blame and started acting better. Now, how many women are sexually attracted to men who bend over backwards to fix themself after she cheats on him? Do you think your wife feels you are really attracted to her versus wanting the kids not to suffer or yourself not to suffer with a divorce? How could she feel that you love HER as opposed to loving simply your marital status? It's hard for her to wrap herself around that. 

You should no longer GIVE more than you are receiving. And embrace it. Welcome it. Isn't there a big upside not having to worry about meeting your wife's needs? You get to do what YOU feel like doing. You get to call the shots as it suits you. You get to construct a world where you and your kids are the center, and she is not really welcome other than to look after your kids when you have something better to do. 

A free man, an independent man, a man who expects people to earn a place in his life... When she is on the outside looking in, she will want to earn a place back into her family. That is the man your wife will find sexually desirable.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> What do you think this means?
> This means that she still wants another man, but for whatever reason she cannot have him. IT could be impractical. It could be he doesn't want her.
> 
> You don't have to go straight to a divorce. But, you do have to act differently then you are currently acting.
> ...


Although this is all good advice, fact remains, she doesn't love him.

No matter what OP does or how different he is.......without love, it doesn't matter. 

She will not gain love or love you again even if he changes his way.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Thank you for all the responses. I've been reading and listening. I do like what you are saying Hicks. A_Bit_Much we never really got to the bottom of her crisis before we stopped counselling. DoF, yes when you put things that way I feel stupid because it becomes obvious. 
I'm trying to see if we can get past whatever she is going through. I completely believe that the problem is with her not me. I acknowledged my faults early. I made it clear that her affair was unacceptable and that it was disrespectful to me and our marriage. That is where my head is right now. It took me a while to get there but I do realize that divorce is an option. Just not convinced yet that it is the only option.
She shows me that she cares in many other ways. Can't it grow from there? Or is it all or nothing in your experience?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

A person that doesn't care isn't there. That's been my experience.

If she's showing you in other ways, there is hope. You have to get to the bottom of it, and you can't do it IMO without the help of a counselor. Draw your line in the sand. Counseling continues or she has to move out.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Next time she leaves, change the locks and serve her papers.

She's in an EA and has every availability to be in a PA. She says she doesn't love you. 

You say you are doing a 180 and then you roll out the red carpet for her to return.

Cold truth is she gets a few day's playtime with her boyfriend before coming back to the man that is taking care of her kids and supporting her, and you are tolerating this.

Lawyers, paperwork, go for an amicable settlement if possible.

You get what you tolerate. You deserve better.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

tryingpatience said:


> I'm trying to see if we can get past whatever she is going through. I completely believe that the problem is with her not me. I acknowledged my faults early. I made it clear that her affair was unacceptable and that it was disrespectful to me and our marriage. That is where my head is right now. It took me a while to get there but I do realize that divorce is an option. Just not convinced yet that it is the only option.
> She shows me that she cares in many other ways. Can't it grow from there? Or is it all or nothing in your experience?


Understandable and possibly, it CAN but if she shows you no affection, no love and no sex.....that simply means "I don't care if you get it elsewhere". She know what's at risk, you are a man and you have needs, if those are not met......well, you go elsewhere (unless you can live without sex, your call).

To me, you did everything you can......she did NOTHING (or very little) and is still negligent to you in some important areas (sex for example).

And the whole "no love" thing. I mean we are talking about a FEELING here. 

If you lost love for your wife, do you think it can grow back up? Personally I don't think so.

Did she even bother to apologize for it? Any guilt or sorrow? 

Does she still work there? Least she could've done is find another job and distance herself.....but I have a feeling their relationship has only progressed (vs died down). 

It's her responsibility to gain your trust again, and it seems like she doesn't even care if she builds it back up again AT ALL.

Divorce is not just an option, it's reality. UNLESS you accept status quo for the rest of your life.

Your choice.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

The reality, yes it really sucks. But humour me for a moment (I'm on the fence here). What if the EA is over like she says and she is truly just confused about our marriage. Don't people question their marriages? Having kids changes people. Combine that with the control issues she's brought up. Would your advice still be the same? She still tries to do things together with me. Believe me everything I've read makes me want to do another check on her movements but she can't do much when she has to pick up the kids everyday after work and she's busy running a class as a teacher. She hasn't been going out much on the weekends and I'm not seeing anything on her phone, no secretive calls or texts.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

tryingpatience said:


> The reality, yes it really sucks. But humour me for a moment (I'm on the fence here). What if the EA is over like she says and she is truly just confused about our marriage.


We can play what if game all day and night. 

What if she left you for the other guy already? 

Tell us, did she feel bad for what she did. Did she apologize? Did she take steps to build trust again (find new job/put distance between them, take steps to fix marriage etc)?

You are dreaming, while ignoring reality (I think)



tryingpatience said:


> Don't people question their marriages? Having kids changes people. Combine that with the control issues she's brought up. Would your advice still be the same? She still tries to do things together with me. Believe me everything I've read makes me want to do another check on her movements but she can't do much when she has to pick up the kids everyday after work and she's busy running a class as a gr8 teacher. She hasn't been going out much on the weekends and I'm not seeing anything on her phone, no secretive calls or texts.


You are the best judge of the situation. We can only go by what you tell us.

All of the above sounds good. BUT, reality is:
- she doesn't love you

- she doesn't care enough for you to make sure you are satisfied (risk = you getting it elsewhere). I don't care how strong you might be, in time you WILL cave (and if you do, divorce first).

- she hasn't taken steps to discuss what went wrong or lead 
her to EA/cheating > thus, she can't possibly know the triggers or how to prevent it next time > thus you don't know what you might have done wrong 

- she hasn't taken steps to build/earn your trust back

As far as I'm concerned, she could be banging him on the lunch break or still have an EA with him without you knowing. Why should YOU be Sherlock Holmes here? 

It's HER job to work on this stuff. 

When it comes to feeling love for someone though, NOTHING you or she can do to fix that (I'm afraid). You either have it for the person, or you don't. 

I don't believe in "building love" or "building it back up".

Besides, why would you want to be with a person that doesn't love you anyway?

And yes, reality does suck for you right now, it should feel exactly the way it feels. It's going to take time and pain for you to recover (if you decide to move on).

I wish you good luck, I really do hope you and your wife can get past this and continue your marriage (I always like to be optimistic about that).

I just don't see it happening based on everything you told us here.

It would also help to hear both sides of the story, but I will warn you, that can be rather dangerous and our opinion CAN change if your wife gave us her side of the story.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I thought the post below would fit in nicely here. BTW, you might want to check out that thread as well (another guy with wife that doesn't love him)



Lon said:


> I'm not talking about manipulation or game playing. But when someone says they don't love you, you need to pay attention. She will not be looking out for your interests, she has resigned herself from that responsibility. She will not be attempting to fulfill your needs. You are on your own, so whatever your next move is has to be in your own best interest. That is for you to decide and if you struggle identifying that then try to find a counsellor to help you do so.
> 
> And you can be perfectly clear with her about this, no manipulation. If you want to continue to cohabitate, then do so but don't expect that giving things to her is going to influence her feelings. If you want her trust then just be honest and live up to your words. If she is not all in, then you are in limbo and the longer you are there the most disappointment you will experience. If you decide that it is in your best interest to detach then that is what the 180 is for.
> 
> So ask her what she wants to do, don't take "I don't know" for an answer, then help her get what she wants so that you are not in limbo anymore.


1st paragraph is spot on IMO.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

For the last couple of months I've taken the path of not bringing up anything, not creating any pressure, I thought that this would be the best tactic based on what I've read. I truly believed that she was going through a midlife crisis of sorts.
After the last break down she wants a separation. Should I initiate it with a divorce? What would be the stronger position here. Other advice I've received says to let her do it. Yes, we are in limbo and I am accepting that either you love someone or not. I don't want to move out because I don't think I should. I would want her to move out. I will let everyone know how this plays out tonight.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> For the last couple of months I've taken the path of not bringing up anything, not creating any pressure, I thought that this would be the best tactic based on what I've read. I truly believed that she was going through a midlife crisis of sorts.
> After the last break down she wants a separation. *Should I initiate it with a divorce? *What would be the stronger position here. Other advice I've received says to let her do it. Yes, we are in limbo and I am accepting that either you love someone or not. I don't want to move out because I don't think I should. I would want her to move out. I will let everyone know how this plays out tonight.


Yes. A separation is not going to be a mini-vacation from marriage. A separation is a prelude to divorce. Make sure she understands the consequences. Stay in the marriage and fix it - or separation and divorce. No vacation.

While separated, you can see an attorney, get your financial situation set up, move on without her and get used to life without her. If that's what she wants, then separate. If she expects you to be waiting for her should she want to come back, let her know that option may not be available. You will be moving forward.

Then see how she responds to the new reality.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

tryingpatience said:


> For the last couple of months I've taken the path of not bringing up anything, not creating any pressure, I thought that this would be the best tactic based on what I've read. I truly believed that she was going through a midlife crisis of sorts.
> After the last break down she wants a separation. Should I initiate it with a divorce? What would be the stronger position here. Other advice I've received says to let her do it. Yes, we are in limbo and I am accepting that either you love someone or not. I don't want to move out because I don't think I should. I would want her to move out. I will let everyone know how this plays out tonight.


 What your doing is whistling past the grave yard or closing your eyes and hoping that it goes away. Ain't happening friend.

You want her out? Shouldn't be a problem since she leaves for a few days when she wants so what you do is this.

You file for divorce and have her served at work where everyone can see and if she calls or runs home, tell her that since she can't be a loving faithful wife and likes to step out of the house a few days at a time then she's getting her wish. 

Look in a marriage there has to be 100% commitment and right now it's only 50% and that's you. Her half doesn't exist so your grabbing at air. 

Comes a point in time when you also have to play hardball because she's playing it with you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> For the last couple of months I've taken the path of not bringing up anything, not creating any pressure, I thought that this would be the best tactic based on what I've read. I truly believed that she was going through a midlife crisis of sorts.
> After the last break down she wants a separation. Should I initiate it with a divorce? What would be the stronger position here. Other advice I've received says to let her do it. Yes, we are in limbo and I am accepting that either you love someone or not. I don't want to move out because I don't think I should. I would want her to move out. I will let everyone know how this plays out tonight.


Listen man. I went down a similar path with my ex. I gave her space when she wanted space. I gave her a separation when she wanted separation.

I did everything she wanted.

What I got is cheated on and left.

I recommend the opposite. Stand firm and tall and demand what is right, or demand she walk out the door and not come back.

So that you can find someone else to stand proudly by your side.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

So last night I basically told her that a separation will mean a divorce for me. She asked me if I wanted her out of the house and I said yes. I gave her 2 weeks to find a place. I told her that her EA destroyed this marriage and there will be no reconciliation because there is no love. I told her that I've been trying for the past year and it has all been one-sided. She waited for me to come to bed but instead I slept in a separate room last night.

I don't feel good right now. She's already asked me in a text if she can take the kids on Sunday to her grandmothers house for mothers day. To address everyone who is convinced that she is having a party every time she leaves. I know for a fact that she was alone when she left. Once she stayed with her parents. She was miserable every time she left and came home. The last time I put my foot down she came back wanting to try MC. That improved things for a while but ended. How do I prevent this from happening again? How do you know if someone is truly remorseful? I don't want to fall into the same patterns again. I'm trying to find ways to stay strong here.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What you need to do is keep moving toward divorce. Stay in your home and in your bed. Encourage her to be the one to leave (which you did, good!). Let her know that she for now is welcome in your life as a loving wife and that the choice is completely hers. You should be documenting your case for primary child custody by maintaining a log of watching your children more than your wife does (easy if she is out of the house). You should separate finances. You should hire a lawyer.

The idea is your wife will become remorseful (perhaps) when she loses the gifts you are giving her. The gift of an intact family, money, a house, a helper, a coparent, a friend. She will be remorseful eventually if her post divorce life sucks. But rather than debate and discuss, you merely have do define the conditions for you to welcome her back (she needs to be a loving wife, working with you on creating a fulfilling marriage).

I would read a bunch of threads here in "Coping with Infidelity" and you will see examples of what works and what does not. The problem up to now is she has not faced a negative consequence that will make her remorseful. All her affair did was make you act better. That causes the opposite of remorse.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Thanks Hicks. Looking for some advise on how to handle the transition with the kids. I know she's fishing to see how I feel by asking me to take the kids on Sunday. Do we still do things as a family? I feel strong enough to deal with her. But the second the kids are involved I feel horrible.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Of course you let her take them for Mother's day. I would avoid doing family things with your wife until your wife indicates she wants to have a family. I don't know if it's posted, but did you expose her affair?


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

No, I did not expose the affair. I was just reading about that here Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums. Question, should I call up the OP? From what I know it was one sided and he is single. Does this kind of action go against the 180 rules? Seems vindictive or angry to me. Also, should I still wear my ring during all this? Or do I make a point not to?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You should move this post to Coping with Infidelity.
You don't expose to the OM. He already knows about it.
You would expose to his wife. How do you know he is single? But if he is innocent then I don't believe that is fair anyway. 

At this point, separation is imminent. If your values system and path to becoming an attractive man requires that the people around you be given information about why your wife is moving out, then by all means tell them. This separation hurts alot of people. Some men, afraid of their wives "wrath", keep it a secret. Some men believe they owe it to the people who are hurt and affected by your separation so these others can process and come to terms with it. Some keep it a secret becuase they feel it's best for the kids.

The point I am making is the you have to start living by your values. What you are currently doing is living by a standard of trying to keep your wife's selfish actions from harming her children by accepting a ridicoulsy one sided deal of a marriage. Figure out who you are, how you intend to live, and let your values of what is right and wrong dictate your actions. Having values does not mean everything will always have a perfect outcome, but it allows you to make decisions without constantly worrying about all possible outcomes.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Hicks, I really took in what you were saying and I've been really thinking about my own values. I believe in keeping the family together. But I realize the reality of things right now and I've drawn my line in the sand.

An update on what has happened. Yesterday we both attended my daughters arts night at her school. Before leaving she said that she would leave and spend the night alone Saturday night. I told her that I'd rather her stay but under the conditions I previously stated (become a loving partner again, leaving means divorce, own up to the EA etc.). That made her really angry and she was miserable all night. She told me that what's happening right now to us has nothing to do with the OM. She avoided me all this morning. I think I really hit a nerve here.

My wife is really horrible at expressing her feelings. It's strange because I always thought women were better at this than men. She easily gets confused by how she feels and can't put anything to words. That's why I keep feeling like I have to keep repeating these conditions for her. That was also why MC was really difficult. It comes from a background where her mother really controlled her as she grew up.

I know I'm going on and on here. BTW, how do I move this post, or do I just start a new one?

Thoughts on what I've said?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

marduk said:


> Listen man. I went down a similar path with my ex. I gave her space when she wanted space. I gave her a separation when she wanted separation.
> 
> I did everything she wanted.
> 
> ...


Trying patience,

Read Marduk's threads. They are not long. He tried like hell for a long time but never overcame the loss of attraction. His wife maybe wanted to make it work but she was never in 100%. Hard to be.

Marduk,

You never updated your threads to tell folks how you discovered her cheating again. Or did she just decided to leave after all those months reconciliation? Would you call it false R?

TryingPatience,

Another thread with a positive result is Road Scholar. He was in a sexless marriage for 5 months post Dday. But then when his wife saw the I-am-leaving-look-in-his-eyes she stripped naked and hopped into bed.

The 180 cannot be turned on and off. It loses efficacy if your wife knows that you blow hot and cold and she can make you want her anytime.

Search for Machiavelli's advice on TAM. He lays out the evolutionary psychology that makes women want men. It can't hurt to follow his advice.

As for sex, I would stop initiating. 

Have you gone over a divorce settlement in your mind?

I would not bother with separation since they usually involve the WAW trying out other men to see if having sex with them makes her miss you. Usually the answer is no at least not in the bed room.

Her willingness to move out can work in your favor. Tell her to get an apartment. You'll be in a better situation for custody.

How many of her colleagues are toxic? Going through divorce?

She's an 8th grade teacher watching all those kids going through puberty. She's exposed to the beginning of sex madness all day long.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> Hicks, I really took in what you were saying and I've been really thinking about my own values. I believe in keeping the family together. But I realize the reality of things right now and I've drawn my line in the sand.
> 
> An update on what has happened. Yesterday we both attended my daughters arts night at her school. Before leaving she said that she would leave and spend the night alone Saturday night. I told her that I'd rather her stay but under the conditions I previously stated (become a loving partner again, leaving means divorce, own up to the EA etc.). *That made her really angry and she was miserable all night. *She told me that what's happening right now to us has nothing to do with the OM. *She avoided me all this morning. I think I really hit a nerve here.*
> 
> ...


Note the contradiction. She was angry. She is "horrible" at expressing her feelings. She was angry.

There is your answer. She was angry. Now, if you want to find out just why she was angry, you need to look no further then why it started. It started because you stood up and gave her some very real consequences to consider. Sure, she is free to do what she wants - but as her husband you have the right to apply conditions to her freedom.

And no, it's not all about her mother. She is a grown woman with a husband and children. She is accountable for her actions. For her to want to get away from her family (you and the children) on a weekend for some alone time is desertion. There is nothing going on your household that would warrant or provoke that sort of desertion. It seems to me that her little "mini-vacations" are self-serving and you have every right to take a stand.

No, you don't have to keep repeating the conditions. What you need to do is start making good on your word and act upon those conditions. Only then will she take you seriously.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

LongWalk: Thanks I'm reading up now. Most of her friends are other women teacher co-workers that she works out with. She is going out with them this Saturday. Yes, I asked about who is going and OP is not. They are mostly single but some married, non divorced as far as I know.

survivorwife: What did you mean by contradiction? In what I said or her behaviour? I know she's angry because she's being more firm with the kids, slamming doors, avoiding me etc.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> LongWalk: Thanks I'm reading up now. Most of her friends are other women teacher co-workers that she works out with. She is going out with them this Saturday. Yes, I asked about who is going and OP is not. They are mostly single but some married, non divorced as far as I know.
> 
> survivorwife: What did you mean by contradiction? In what I said or her behaviour? I know she's angry because she's being more firm with the kids, slamming doors, avoiding me etc.


You said that she has a problem communicating. She was clearly communicating "anger". You can trust that her actions are a clear communication device and she didn't have to use actual words to convey her true feelings.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

survivorwife, thanks for clearing that up for me, her reactions are encouraging me in a strange way, it's as if I'm opening this thing right up ... finally.

LongWalk, i've been reading the other posts, this site is amazing, all of you have such amazing insight. So much has inspired me here. BTW still trying to find the post by Machiavelli.

It's been especially helpful for me to know that being lost for the last year is not uncommon. That others like Road Scholar have been through this. I 've been struggling with the question of how long do I keep trying. Now I'm not asking any questions, I'm setting boundaries. I've already had those discussions about boundaries and consequences with my wife but I still feel like writing out more details of how I feel in an email to her. Would that be overboard? I'm on a sort of high here and I don't want to come off overly alpha (if that is even possible).

Also what do I do about the anger now? Do I just ignore it and do my own thing? Do I start doing family things on my own with the kids until she comes around?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

:sleeping:


tryingpatience said:


> survivorwife, thanks for clearing that up for me, her reactions are encouraging me in a strange way, it's as if I'm opening this thing right up ... finally.
> 
> LongWalk, i've been reading the other posts, this site is amazing, all of you have such amazing insight. So much has inspired me here. BTW still trying to find the post by Machiavelli.
> 
> ...


Absolutely not! No email. No further explanation. Nothing. If she needs clarification, she will ask you. You need to stick to your principles and not give her an opening to renegotiate your terms. An email would "open the door" for her to attempt to manipulate you. You need not write any further explanation.

Yes. Ignore her temper and do your own thing. If she wants to discuss it with you, then you can hear her out but don't wait around for it. You have spoken.

Yes, I know it can be hard, but it's what needs to be done. Stand firm.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> We are really good friends, she says that I am her best friend, and we've known and dated each other for a long time, since high school. After our second was born I did not meet all her needs but I wouldn't say I was really neglectful. I have address those issues these last couple of months. There was a time after our first that we were having a lot of sex and that resulted in our second. The sex was part of what she said she never had control over. She had a hard time saying 'no' to me because she was always afraid to disappoint me. I had no idea that she felt this way until our initial marriage break down. I haven't been pushing for sex this past couple of months. I've been giving her space. But it does come up once in a while when I can hold it in any longer.


She's mature enough now that she needs 'desire' to have sex. That means YOU have to become alpha enough to turn her on. Have you read 50 Shades of Grey? I'll bet _she _has. You might want to. Gives good insight into what some women want.

In addition, have you read MMSLP? This is far more important for you than NMMNG at this point. Women often have to feel 'swept away' by their man and, as she has pointed out, you're a good FRIEND.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> That made her really angry and she was miserable all night. She told me that what's happening right now to us has nothing to do with the OM. She avoided me all this morning. I think I really hit a nerve here.


Send her a letter. Explain to her what EAs are, how they affect the brain chemistry, and make things appear different than they really are. Tell her how common they are once the PEA chemicals fade from people after about 5 years and you don't have the biological driving passion in your marriage any more. Find some good links to this stuff that explain that you have to FIND time to be together, you have to MAKE the passion once the first 5-8 years are up, you have to continue dating each other to keep the desire for each other in a marriage. Tell her you're willing to look at your side of the marriage but you won't take responsibility for her getting caught up in an EA. Tell her you don't WANT to divorce, but you can't stay married to a friend, that's not fair to you. And you need to see her DOING something on her side to address what's missing in the marriage, ie going back to therapy, spending more time together, talking more, not putting jobs and kids first. Oh, and also make sure she understands that the grass ISN'T greener because she'll be a divorced mom with young kids and the pool of men who'll buy into THAT are slim. EAs, sure, lots of men will want to flirt with you and even cheat with you, but the commitment won't be there, once she's 'free' to date.

See what happens.

Oh, and make sure she understands: THE KIDS STAY WITH YOU. IN THEIR HOME.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I've basically told her all of this minus the stuff about the brain chemistry and chemicals. Now I've been getting the silent treatment and it's already wearing me down. I felt so bad I had to leave the house. I told her I had something to do. She's acting like she doesn't care. Mother's day is go to be really hard. I'm so f*ckin weak. I want my family together!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you need right now is to be in the presence of some other men. Go hang out with a dad or a brother or an uncle or a friend, and tell them what's going on. Listen to what they have to say. I guarantee it won't be 'oh, don't piss her off any more!'


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Thanks I was able to gather myself when I got back home. This is the second night where she is sleeping on the couch. She's even changed her routine and is skipping her shower at night so she can avoid me in our bedroom. Is she punishing herself or is she trying to get me to bite? As I write this I can almost hear your response ... "who cares"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

By George, I think he's got it!


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

She is playing a game with you to see how much rope she has. 
-She leaves and comes back every few days??WTF?
-On the couch to avoid you?
-Does not want sex / no touching / wants to separate.
All you're doing is ENABLING the BEHAVIOR.......

So you say "sure/ok....no problem".
Do a very hard 180 and stick to it. Read about the 180.
Next time she leaves file for separation.
Stop putting up with her ****e.....you are being a door mat.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Machiavelli discussion

Mach posts frequently, so it could be hard to find the right posts. You can PM him and get coaching. The link above a relevant one for you, but he has more to say. He is a guru.

RoadScholar might coach you, too. PM him.

Basically, you need to up your sex ranking. If a bunch of women teachers in your school were in a goofy mood and having a "inappropriate" girls' conversation about which male colleague is the sexiest (the one they would choose to be on top of them dripping sweat), they probably agree.

The dudes they want to bang have muscle and attitude. There might be a male colleague whom they all like. They trust him. He's a nice guy. He's responsible but hey, they don't want his d*ck in them.

Your wife is actively avoiding sex with you. You will not attract her back by being depressed and needy. 

Change the way you look. Work out. Find the inner calm. Confidence and a sense of humor will serve you better than being being her chump.

How come you are so certain it was just an EA?


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Got it thanks everyone. Before I came here I did start talking steps to hang out with the boys more and now I've been doing it regularly.

I'll keep reading up. I'm pretty sure I'm the male colleague everyone trusts. I'm a pretty active person. I work out, run and I use to train a lot (martial arts). But I've never really had girls come up to me. Sometimes they look. I feel like I should start flirting more.

As for the EA? I've checked her phone and browser history. She's not really technical. I've found nothing. I've asked her if she would give me the passwords to her emails and she said yes. I didn't follow up because I wanted to show her that I trusted her. I'm going to take her up on that offer today. No Facebook account I know of and she shows me her Instagram account once in a while.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do YOU want to show HER that you trust HER?

It's supposed to be the other way around. She needs to be on her toes making sure she's proving herself to YOU.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

At the time I didn't realize that but I do now. Should I still ask to check her email now? Not sure how that will come off now that I'm doing the 180. Opinions on this? I want to check.

I cleaned the car this morning. When I came into the house she thanked me for cleaning the car. I didn't do it for her, was just keeping busy.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Stop asking her about anything. Just stop. It makes you look weak and non-attractive. Do not beg, ask, implore, or anything.
Just do what YOU want everyday. Don't tell her your doing the "180". It's your program not hers.
Let me know when your tired of being a door mat.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You don't ask to see her email. You just randomly walk up to her, hold out your hand, and see, "I want to check your email."


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Fordsvt I am tired of being a doormat. I've read your posts and I'd like to know what is MAP that you followed with your 180?

I hear you turnera.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Think of her like your best male friend. If he did something to you that hurt you and pissed you off and then tried to make it up to you. Would you be afraid of telling him what you want?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> Fordsvt I am tired of being a doormat. I've read your posts and I'd like to know what is MAP that you followed with your 180?
> 
> I hear you turnera.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen to Turnera....helped me a lot.

MAP+ Male Action Plan. 
You need to read the MMSLP / Married Man Sex Life Primer.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Hi TP,

I read your post and the last page of responses. I think you might be on the right track. Just wanted to add my thoughts on one thing that struck me about your situation; I think your wife feels way too comfortable with you in the 'friend' zone. If you don't make love, you are not lovers.

I never abandoned my marriage, but I did go through a period after the kids were born where I wasn't interested in sex at all. DH made it pretty clear that he would abandon all attempts to keep intimacy (no hugs, no kissing, no nothing) if I failed to provide that last step, intercourse. He's always stated he would never divorce me, but this did not mean it didn't create motivation in me to change because I never wanted to just be roommates with him, I wanted a real marriage. I think he did his version of the 180 on me. Anyway, it worked. He stepped back, I stepped forward.

It seems like your wife keeps stepping back and you keep chasing. It sounds like this will keep repeating itself until she starts to get used to being apart from you and the kids and doesn't mind it so much anymore. Then one day she'll meet someone else while she's having her 'break away' and bam, after all that work you've put into saving the marriage, she'll drop you like a hot potato.

I hope you can work something out. At some point she's going to have to step up to the plate. Good luck.

I just wanted to add that one thing that I've seen from my time of TAM, and life experiences is that when a person has made the decision to leave, they have their foot out the door no matter what you do. At some point you're going to have to stop trying to pull her back into the room because you'll never make it happen, she'll have to make the choice herself if she wants to save your marriage. I think you're doing great stepping up to the plate regarding addressing any issues that she's brought up though.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

My first time posting in this section but I know exactly how you feel. You can not in anyway make her love you by loving her more.
It may not be true in others marriage crises but in mine I received no respect untill she knew I didn't give a rats patooty any more. She wasn't worth it. The person who cares the least has all the power. I put up with it so long that it turned to hate on my part. now that it is she that is pleading and crying I am thinking so what, too late. If I had showed strength before I went too far over to the dark side I believe it would be salvageable for me.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Trying patience,
> 
> Read Marduk's threads. They are not long. He tried like hell for a long time but never overcame the loss of attraction. His wife maybe wanted to make it work but she was never in 100%. Hard to be.
> 
> ...


Thanks, been married twice. First marriage we were pretty young (early 20's). 

I went from the bad boy her parents wanted her to stay away from to getting a degree and a great job and being mr. nice guy that gave her everything.

Attraction went to zero. She had at least one affair (that I found out about after) and maybe one more right when we were getting married.

I tried everything. Gave her the space and independence she said she needed. It just kept getting worse and worse, spiralling into outright contempt for me. That's when the verbal abuse started, which cascaded into physical abuse at times.

That's when I finally said let's go see an MC. Well, that and sex once or twice a year that she clearly hated.

After seeing the MC a few times and having me get a crapload of stuff to work on, I said what are you going to work on. For once the MC backed me, and she stood up, announced we were separating, and left.

Again I was the nice guy and went to my mom's while she stayed in our place while I paid the bills.

A couple months later she was off on vacation with her sister, her sister's boyfriend, and another guy.

That's when I shut everything down and started acting single. Dating, stopped paying her way, lawyered up.

Met next mrs marduk. Became serious. Ex wanted to start talking about things (mostly to get me to pay for things) and I told her to not contact me ever again.

At least she listened to that.

Repeat the cycle. Been married 10ish years with a few kids and I start being mr nice guy again. New wife starts going out, away, etc.

I come here. I read a few books like no more mr nice guy and MMSLP and turn my life around. Work out, drop the gut. Get some buddies. Start being awesome. Get some new threads, start turning heads when I walk through the door. Get hit on in front of my (very possessive) wife. Read more books like Engineering the Alpha and listen to podcasts like the new man and the art of manliness. Realize that I'm nowhere near my potential. And that stuff like the red pill and biology are constants that you can't deny. But that they're just the baseline, the beginning of the path. You can't fight biology, but you also need to do some deep digging to figure out wtf you want for yourself.

She starts worshipping the ground I walk on. Things become great. 

Winter hits, I get a bit lazy. Get promoted at work and stressed out. Spend too much time in my own head thinking about where I want to go and what I want to do. Stop dating her, gain 10 lbs, stop being awesome.

She starts going out with her friends again, planning weekend girl's trips.

I come back here. Remind myself of my journey. Spout some nonsense to guys on the same journey to help them out and to kick myself in the ass. Watch my diet, hit the gym, watch what I wear, start dating my wife again and sexing her up regularly.

Things get better. Wife starts cancelling girl's trips and starts chasing me around the house again.

It's actually quite simple. Just be the most awesome version of yourself you can be. But you have to put in the work. And the journey I'm still on, and will probably be on for the rest of my days is: what do I want from my life? Because that changes from day to day. But the vision remains the same.

Onward and upward.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Marduk, I know you're trying to show support to the OP and offer hope. I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel like your wife gives you such a small margin for error. JMHO, but I think your marriage is missing a very important component - love.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Marduk, I know you're trying to show support to the OP and offer hope. I'm sorry, but I can't help but feel like your wife gives you such a small margin for error. JMHO, but I think your marriage is missing a very important component - love.


Yup. Very true. She does love me though. I know that much.

But the margin of error is indeed small. I don't know how to change that. I can control my behaviour, I can lead this marriage.

But I have never cracked that razor's edge.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

So installed keyloggers. You guys were right on. EA is still alive and well. Couldn't get through all the emails, was too angry, but I have all the evidence I need. Exposed it, will expose further. Next step divorce. I'm not interested in R and won't be. She gas lighted for a year so I'm done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Could you share some of the emails?


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

It's pretty hard reading them. LongWalk if you are interested in something specific I can PM you. It hurts because some of them date back to 2012. She's in a fantasy but that doesn't matter anymore. They've had sex as far as I can tell. It explains everything. Like you said I have to live by my values and my values always said I would never tolerate cheating.

So I'm scheduled to talk to an attorney tomorrow. I'm absolutely not interested in any R. I'm down from my anger high and feel miserable right now, I am shaking a bit. What can I expect in the next few days in terms of emotions. Want to be prepared.

We are going to live under the same roof for the time being until we can sell the place. I want this to be as quick as possible.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I'm curious about the silence on my post. Is there nothing more to say and people see this as a completed episode? Does anyone have any advice on what I should be thinking and preparing for in terms of D. I'm really struggling with the thought of another man raising my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Now that you know where you really stand might I suggest that you open a new thread over on the Coping with Infidelity forum and lay out your situation as you now see it. You'll get a lot more experienced posters there able to help with issue-specific counsel.

My sympathies, but kinda feared this coming.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

PM a moderator and have your thread moved.
It's far from a completed episode.
Get the best attorney, go after the best divorce settlement possible, start moving on with indifference toward her...
Explain what you did for exposure?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> I'm curious about the silence on my post. Is there nothing more to say and people see this as a completed episode? Does anyone have any advice on what I should be thinking and preparing for in terms of D. I'm really struggling with the thought of another man raising my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like others suggested, get a moderator to move your thread to CWI (Coping with Infidelity) and focus on those threads and advise. You've entered a new territory and I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this.

Having said that, be prepared for the classic cheater script. Blame shifting, trickle truth, gas lighting - all designed for the cheater to blame you for the affair. But know this. The Affair isn't your fault and do not allow your WS (wayward spouse) to shift the blame onto you. She owns this one.

And try not to think about "another man raising your kids". That only presumes that your WS will be in a serious relationship in the near future. You are and always will be the children's father. Never forget that.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tryingpatience said:


> So installed keyloggers. You guys were right on. EA is still alive and well. Couldn't get through all the emails, was too angry, but I have all the evidence I need. Exposed it, will expose further. Next step divorce. I'm not interested in R and won't be. She gas lighted for a year so I'm done.


I stayed out of this thread, since the first couple of posts said "full blown adultery," between the lines, and you were in denial about her fookfests at the hotel. Now that you're past that, I commend you on your hard assed approach to wrapping up this marriage. It's the right thing to do. 

However, being decisive in getting rid of her is a very attractive behavior for her, so you may get her trying to come back to you as things progress. Prepare your mind for that eventuality, now, and your response will be second nature if the plan is no R under any circumstances.

Does your state have fault (adultery) divorce?

Get an attorney today.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I exposed immediately to parents (called) and her friends / co-workers (emails). But as I said it doesn't matter now I know I'm moving on. I will open up a new post if needed. I've already spoken to an attorney. I'm in Canada, so yes they have an adultery divorce, but it will be faster and cheaper for me to get an agreement from her that the marriage was over last year and then a divorce can follow right away.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience. You don't have to, but you do and I commend you all. 

Moving on with my life. Going to live a great one!


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP, been following your story, and am so sorry you are here. It is far from a fun road you will find yourself on. At least you wont be in limbo, which is pure hell.
As others said, move to CWI, and you will get a lot more help. 

-sammy


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> I'm curious about the silence on my post. Is there nothing more to say and people see this as a completed episode? Does anyone have any advice on what I should be thinking and preparing for in terms of D. I'm really struggling with the thought of another man raising my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, was out of town for the holiday weekend. 

The truth is, the instant you got her pregnant, you never had control over whether your kids would be with you 100%. She always had 50% of the control. 

I've seen people come back from that much cheating but if you say you're done, I'll believe you. Understand that your emotions will be ALL OVER the place for at least the next few months, and you'll likely vacillate between wanting to kick her ass and wanting to beg her to stay. Nothing wrong with that. 

My only advice at this point is (1) expose and expose hard (tell us to whom and how you exposed) and (2) move slowly, no fast decisions. Oh, and NO SEX with her for now.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> It's pretty hard reading them. LongWalk if you are interested in something specific I can PM you. It hurts because some of them date back to 2012. She's in a fantasy but that doesn't matter anymore. They've had sex as far as I can tell. It explains everything. Like you said I have to live by my values and my values always said I would never tolerate cheating.
> 
> So I'm scheduled to talk to an attorney tomorrow. I'm absolutely not interested in any R. I'm down from my anger high and feel miserable right now, I am shaking a bit. What can I expect in the next few days in terms of emotions. Want to be prepared.
> 
> We are going to live under the same roof for the time being until we can sell the place. I want this to be as quick as possible.


Expect the roller coaster. One day you might be happy as hell to be rid of this ball and chain, the next day you might be unable to get thoughts of her and him out of your head. The next day you might be thinking of reconciling, begging her to take you back. Then you might go off and have a revenge affair.

Anything is possible, give yourself time and space and be true to yourself.

Oh and find yourself a buddy you can call at 2Am to talk you down from whatever crazy thing you're thinking or feeling.

Rip the band aid off and live apart ASAP.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tryingpatience said:


> I exposed immediately to parents (called) and her friends / co-workers (emails). But as I said it doesn't matter now I know I'm moving on. I will open up a new post if needed. I've already spoken to an attorney. I'm in Canada, so yes they have an adultery divorce, but it will be faster and cheaper for me to get an agreement from her that the marriage was over last year and then a divorce can follow right away.
> 
> Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience. You don't have to, but you do and I commend you all.
> 
> Moving on with my life. Going to live a great one!


I'm Canadian and divorced. Focus on the separation agreement and living apart. Lawyer up and strike while she still may harbour some guilt and shock about being found out.

Hold strong man, odds are high that she'll come begging for you back.

Odds are also high that if you do take her back this is just the first affair before something begins again.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

This will be last reply on this post before I open up a new one on my transition. We have started a custody schedule where one of us leaves the house for a few days. I'm currently out of the house. I'm taking the time to get everything in motion. First step drafting the separation agreement.

As much as I'd like to share the emails from the affair I can't. Don't want to revisit them at this time. But just know that they give me the resolve to see this through. I won't be taking her back because I refuse to be pulled into the pattern, I'm above that now.

So if there is anything to be learned from my experience it would be to trust your instinct when it comes to your marriage. Protect it by being proactive. If something feels off do whatever is needed to uncover the cause and don't settle.

The only thing I feel now for my soon to be ex is pity. She could have had an amazing life.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Why are you out of the house?
Cheaters want out, they can leave.
It's more important than ever that you stand tall.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

If I read this thread correctly, the OP didn't know his wife was in an affair since 2012. It is now 2014 when he learn the full extent. We as BS, when first discovered, usually always are lead to believe "it just happen now," for the most part, or "it's over now," when in reality, what the OP is facing, is far more the truth. 

What I don't understand, what I don't get,... why the spouse put the BS through it all, living the lies, the life during the real time, pretending, making us believe we live in another world than we do. Then even after as the OP struggles to rebuild, the spouse still continues to live a deceitful life?
God, it gets so messed up. 

-sammy


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

patience, just want to say, I don't see this revolving parent thing to be viable long term. I hope you're setting up something better for all involved.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Marduk, really good advice. I speak the same too. So are you still married to wife #2??

TP- way to expose. Good on you. Don't look back. In a few years you look at this and laugh.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sammy has it right.

Tryingpatience did PM some of the text that he uncovered. For the followers of his thread it would fill in some blanks.

I will paste and clip what he sent if he agrees.

Suffice it to say that his wife's betrayal is was unambiguous. Her correspondence with POSOM indicates zero regret or remorse. He discovered unsent drafts that suggest that she was feeling the new branch carefully before letting go of the old one.

She wrote to OM with flattery that suggests that she is insincere IMO.

Particularly beyond any spouse's tolerance was her conniving to make certain OM would agree to be a step-father.

For the record, I don't think all people who have affairs are evil and nefarious. However, Tryingpatience's wife is a horrible character, not because she had an affair, but because she has been eating cake, while serving him shxt sandwiches for a very long time. Only an extremely heartless person would have engaged in such extended deception. She is grossly inconsiderate. 

It is hard to imagine the affair relationship leading to a successful marriage. She is probably sugary now while in love, but once the chemicals that mascarade as choice (as Sandfly put it) are flushed through her kidneys and liver, the selfish shrew will emerge. Good luck to OM but he is probably a POS who deserves what is coming him.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I really hope Tryingpatience takes the POSOM and exposed hardcore. Sorry your here...she does not respect you as a person or a husband, time to let her go.


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