# Resentment



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

This is my new area of interest in terms of relationship dynamics. I think it is enormous in the scope of negative impact on LTR's. And I also think that it is processed and handled very differently by the sexes.

I was thinking very much about this prior to seeing Trenton's thread in the Ladies Lounge: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/37362-uh-why-oh-why-resentments.html

I try to frame stuff so that it makes it easy for me to mentally digest, in the doing, I no doubt make some serious generalizations ... which although not always bad, may not always be applicable.

The Pillars

Building a good relationship:
1. Communication
2. Respect
3. Attraction

Breaking down a formerly good relationship:
1. Resentment
2. Loss of Respect
3. Lack of communication

In a nutshell, resentment is what led to me making the decision to separate from my wife. My resentment built up over the course of years, but, I was always looking to, and trying to find ways to jettison it, let it go. I didn't want to have it.

My ex's resentment built up over the course of about 10 months, when I utterly and completely checked out of the marriage. Conversely, by her own admission ... she CAN'T let go of the resentment that built up in that time. 

We would never be able to truly reconcile, recover, rediscover and move on, for that reason. And I believe her.

I find it both interesting and sad. Frankly, I don't want to partner with someone that isn't willing to, or capable of, clearing the balance sheet.

Suppose I'm curious about resentment's extraordinarily corrosive effect on a marriage, such as Walk Away Wife Syndrome, and other similar circumstances.

Have seen here on the boards on several occasions, people candidly admit that despite their spouses willingness to abandon behaviors that had fostered resentment, and instead try to rebuild the good pillars ... that it is extraordinarily difficult to let go of the bad pillars ... particularly old resentments.

I don't know of many healthy relationships where resentment seems prevalent.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Deejo said:


> I don't know of many healthy relationships where resentment seems prevalent.


Because that's like saying "I don't know many super-healthy people with chronic health issues"...


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Resentment is so corrosive to a marriage because the one person in the world who you thought understood you, cared about your feelings, and was supposed to bring out the best in you, did or said something that attacked your essential being, your soul. You are surprised by the attack, wounded, and you are uncertain how to process this feeling.

I learned how to let go of resentment from my husband's example. He is rather emotional, and can get angry easily, but lets it go just as easily. I am slow to anger, but when something gets to me, I have trouble forgetting my pain.

He refused to let me pout (my way of handling resentment was to withdraw) about any disagreement that we had. He kept after me until I told him why I was upset.

What I learned from his example:

Immediately discuss any small irritants that you have with each other. Do not let them fester.

Watch your tone. Sarcasm has no place in a marriage.

Think "we" not "me." How can we work this out together.

Stay affectionate. A good sex life works wonders to maintain intimacy and help spouses to overcome resentments.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I read Trenton's thread and related to it a LOT.

I have realised over the past year that I harbour a sizeable chunk of resentment. Like you Deejo I don't want to have it in my relationship. I have thought about it a lot recently and the effect it has on me, my OH and our relationship.

I can honestly say that despite a slow start after OH had his thing with the girl at work, he has done a great deal to rebuild. He invests so much more and continues to do it now, both related to rebuilding broken trust and working at love languages to make our relationship stronger which he scoffed at before.

The resentment I feel at times towards the things he said and did is crippling. I am not as "strong" emotionally as I would like to be, and whilst I have done what I thought previously to do impossible, that is to forgive what he did, I still have moments where I feel incredibly angry at how he spoiled things. I completely realise the negative impact this resentment has yet find it difficult to shake it completely.

My recent conclusion is that it is a protective mechanism. That as long as I "hold" onto these feelings, I continue to remind myself of what he now appears not to be capable of, and I keep myself on my toes, aware, and do not allow myself to completely relax.

The flipside of this is obvious. I am not allowing myself to relax completely. I have had difficulty being vulnerable and enjoying the present as I regularly am too busy thinking about the past and therefore the potential future. My battle is to allow myself to be vulnerable again like I was before all this happened because I see the only way to truly recommit completely is to allow myself to be vulnerable and trusting again which means I have to let go of that resentment, to stop it invading and infecting the present and the future. I am also acutely aware that expressing past hurts can to him negate all the positive things he has done since to rebuild and this is never my intention.

It is pretty hard at times but I'm getting there.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

resentment sux.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

This is a good thread for me right now. As after 9 weeks since she walked away I can actually feel the resentment in me growing. I truly appreciate reading Trenton say "Resentment is inward based while forgiveness is outward based."

Hit right home for me.

She definitely built up resentment which is exactly how the Walk Away Wife plays out. I don't want to poison myself with resentment.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

When I get this all figured out my Wilson Ball will become the Castaway Tom Hanks making fire!!!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

To me resentment is like a subconcious form of unforgiveness. It shows you're still harboring anger for deeds in the past. I think the effects of resentment are the same as unforgiveness. It's not healthy, and it's not sustainable in a marriage.

I think it's difficult to get rid of resentment because unforgiveness is a natural mechanism we employ to protect ourselves from pain. It's like if someone kicks you in the nuts a dozen times, you're naturally going to protect that region when they are around you. Letting go of the resentment is similar to letting your guard down when the nut-kicker is right in front of you. It takes a lot of positive experiences to undo a negative or painful one. How many times would nut-kicker have to come around you and show no aggression before you put your guard down? How many people would never put their guard down?

The only way to let go of resentment is to make ourselves vulnerable. And by nature, that makes us able to be hurt. It takes many things for the healing to take place. First and foremost is a willingness to want to forgive and let go of the resentment. Second is a trust that the other person won't screw us over when we put our guard down. Third is a skillset that allows you to forgive.

To reframe, what you need is:

1. Desire
2. Trust
3. Action


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I worked very very hard to overcome resentment, extreme anger, spousal rape, distrust, etc. Gave my H another chance, even. Oh well, I still have the skills to get over resentment, and they'll last the rest of my life, and be very useful in future relationships. So I won't resent that I went through so much (at least twice) to get them.

A clean slate is a clean slate. 
I think it's a particular mindset.
In my case part of it was a willingness to be delusional (based on what I was working with as a spouse), the other part is just a mentality that most people learn from their mistakes and should be taken at their word until proven otherwise, because how else can you enjoy the fruits of forgiveness? Forgiveness being different than absolute trust, which is never a good thing, though it's often talked about as though it's some sort of gold standard/Holy Grail. 

The reason the 3 Kings made it back without running into Herod is because they felt a little nagging feeling that the dude was untrustworthy. So they went back to their homes a different route, so they wouldn't have to report where the baby was, and all that. Intuition. Nagging Feeling. Not, gee, Herod seems okay, so we should trust him. That's why they were called Wise Men.

So maybe adjust 'Trust' to 'Appropriate Level of Trust' and add 'Confidence in Gut Instinct'.

Time has its issues, that is given enough time, someone is going to hit a trigger. If the other issues aren't in balance at that point, the whole thing can blow. Also, time is some kind of weird construct. In that it's something that exists that allows us to construct narratives - sequential narratives to explain things that cannot be explained or should not be explained. Our silly little human minds seem to pin certain events at the time when we experience the consequences, rather than the time when the event occurred. Try as we might, especially if it is trauma of some sort, we cannot reconcile the fact that with cheating the trauma occurred at a time when we might have been feeling happy. It's best not to go there. Most people cannot handle that trauma occurs and they are happy until they know about it. But if they have intuition, then they do know about it, and it gives rise to nagging feeling. If that's the case, then they might have an issue handling that, knowing about something, feeling it, before they possibly could know about it (that would be me). This experience negates time, because time has been essential for sequential, hard knowledge, what we call and honor as factual evidence. Then you've got the issue of emotional truth vs. real truth. Trust should be based on emotional truth, not real truth...but trustbuilding seems to be based only on real truth (factual evidence) rather than how one person's thoughts and emotions affect anothers, regardless of distance or notion. It has been proven scientifically that once two entities have been together and connected emotionally or physically, there is a connection that exists where the outer electrons spin in synchronicity, regardless of distance (like on the other side of the world). If you think I'm out to lunch, I can find the research, it was featured in a documentary film this past year (the director that had that huge bike accident...)

I think maybe Time could also be adjusted by saying that the people involved need to enter into a zone of timelessness, where nobody is writing a story, because stories just beg for closure. (Hayden White/Narrative Fallacy). 

Sorry not trying to be esoteric, just helpful. Overcoming resentment is not an equation. It just is. Overcoming resentment is linked to forgiving. Forgiving is a gift you give yourself. You forgive not only the other person, but also yourself for allowing your intuition to be out to lunch, for being so disconnected from your spouse that you did not realize a change AND to question it, and if you did, for giving your spouse the benefit of the doubt, and if you did that, for doing it for so long, and if you went a long time and lost yourself then for losing yourself. At some point you can overcome resentment by making reparations for the damage you allowed to occur to yourself in your relationship. For ignoring it as it happened. Maybe it went too far. This is different than blaming the victim. It is honoring the damage that you experienced as a victim and owning that the only person who can repair some of the damage is yourself. Maybe the damage was done by an other, had to be initiated from them, maybe out of your control physically altogether...but you have to go back to all of the concerns and intuitions that you ignored, and realize that you accepted all of that hurt out of love. There is a lot of shame to get over too. For the hurt person, not the cheater. Being sympathetic towards oneself goes a long way in getting over resentment. I'm not trying to be funny with this last bit, but I don't resent what my husband did to me one bit. It is his nature to do what he did. It was my nature to do what I did. Now I will do something else. What will my husband do? I don't know, it won't be with me, if it is it won't be physical. If he still chooses to hurt me, he can try but I've attached my electrons to a different sort of love, which is stronger than his attachment to me and what's left of mine for him is faint to non-existent. 

Anyway, that's my input for getting over resentment. Resentment is I think a form of panic that's caused by asynchronicity and unbalanced attachment. It can be fixed. But not methodically.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> If it's ok, I'm adding a 4th item to Coguy's list.
> 
> To reframe, what you need is:
> 
> ...


good call.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Love this topic. Great opening post. 

So after giving this a lot of thought this is where I have landed based on my personal experience. 

I have been on the receiving end of the dread "beast of partner resentment" maybe a half dozen times in our marriage. And the same beast has attempted to seduce me with its siren song of "self pity and sense of entitlement" many times. 

The receiving end of this always showed up in the same form, my W would say to me "I am NEVER going to get over the fact that you did .......". 

And the seduction side was "I cannot freakin believe my W actually said/did ...... to ME, I DESERVE BETTER". 

So this is some pretty serious stuff, or it can be. When I am the "bad guy" and I hear the phrase "I am NEVER going to get over you doing ......" I always react the same way. 
1. I sincerely apologize 
2. I promise to make a good faith effort not to do "it" again, whatever IT happened to be
3. I then proceed to respect my W's right to HOLD ONTO her anger and resentment for as long as she wishes. HOWEVER, the way that I do so is I give her space. I sure as heck don't keep apologizing because doing so is a form of "can you hurry the hell up and forgive me". It isn't my place to rush the forgiveness process. It happens when it happens. But ummm in the meantime, I focus on everything BUT my W. 

It turns out that NEVER appears to have a maximum duration of 5 days. Fine by me. She is allowed to get angry and stay that way for a few days. 

When SHE is the bad guy the same thing happens in reverse except I don't use the phrase "I am NEVER going to get past this". Seems like overkill to me. And you know how I get over it? I start trying to recall all the nice things my W has done for me during our marriage. And I cannot. Because there are thousands and thousands. And then I feel love washing over me, immersing me and the anger melts away like snow in the sunlight. And that process never takes more than a week. 

I refuse to be held hostage for my imperfections. Because for every one thing I do wrong, I do dozens, maybe hundreds of things right. And I would choose not to stay with someone who WANTED to cling to anger and resentment. 




Deejo said:


> This is my new area of interest in terms of relationship dynamics. I think it is enormous in the scope of negative impact on LTR's. And I also think that it is processed and handled very differently by the sexes.
> 
> I was thinking very much about this prior to seeing Trenton's thread in the Ladies Lounge: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/37362-uh-why-oh-why-resentments.html
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T,
Yes. If you keep doing the same thing that is a whole different story. 





Trenton said:


> Recognizing whether or not the above is true with your partner is key.
> 
> Like I said before, if you sincerely apologize and you work to overcome the behavior after realizing it was wrong then having your spouse hold onto resentment is unfair. If you keep repeating the behavior you're sending a different message entirely.


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## Endgame (Nov 6, 2011)

I could use a little help here trying to understand resentment and hidden anger. The kind that last for decades.

My marriage of 20 years just ended. I won't go into much detail but it involves an EA, stalking, loss of job, and a few other things that my ex partook of.

Anyhow, I was able to forgive him of all of his actions, yet there is still hurt and pain that runs deep within me, knowing that he wanted the divorce and he chose not to forgive me, yet I scratch my head with wonderment because I was a faithful wife until the end. 

Finally, after 20 years, he spewed out so much venom against me, it was the little things, things that I thought he approved of and enjoyed, but inside he was making notes of his disapproval, and it built up over the course of our marriage. Little things like this... he would have preferred a nice little honeymoon in the town where we lived in, just a stay at a hotel for a couple of days instead of a nice trip. I read a newspaper on our honeymoon while he was resting in a chair writing, not buying cereal in bulk, just little things like that. His resentment to so many things that I had no idea he disapproved of has me riddled with guilt. I never meant him any harm with these little things, and yet he can't forgive me of these. WTF. Can somebody explain this too me, why I can forgive him of the very painful acts upon his part that affected his whole family, and he can't forgive me of little things. 

I'm at a total loss here.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Endgame said:


> Can somebody explain this too me, why I can forgive him of the very painful acts upon his part that affected his whole family, and he can't forgive me of little things.
> 
> I'm at a total loss here.


I'll hazard a guess that - it's nothing to do with you, it's up to him whether he holds onto it or not. That is his responsibility.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> I think it's difficult to get rid of resentment because unforgiveness is a natural mechanism we employ to protect ourselves from pain. It's like if someone kicks you in the nuts a dozen times, you're naturally going to protect that region when they are around you. Letting go of the resentment is similar to letting your guard down when the nut-kicker is right in front of you. It takes a lot of positive experiences to undo a negative or painful one. How many times would nut-kicker have to come around you and show no aggression before you put your guard down? How many people would never put their guard down?


 This is a great analogy but shouldn't it be for the really hard stuff ....like physical abuse, emotional abuse, abandonment, the DEEP stuff- that breaks the spirit . 

I tend to think like this many times ........"Sticks & stones may break my bones , but *words *can never hurt me". I am generally very forgiving with "words", I understand people screw up with their mouths at times, especially when they are upset, stressed, angry . We all have our moments! I TRY to give grace here-for me, it is always "What was the root of that ??".... so if another shows heartfelt remorse - I happily wipe the slate clean..... this is a JOY to me. Now if their actions prove otherwise time & time again-this speaks volumes -that is another ball game entirely---pretty much where new boundaries need to be erected. 




> The only way to let go of resentment is to make ourselves vulnerable. And by nature, that makes us able to be hurt. It takes many ths for the healing to take place. First and foremost is a willingness to want to forgive and let go of the resentment. Second is a trust that the other person won't screw us over when we put our guard down. Third is a skillset that allows you to forgive.


Vulnerabilty, it is our ticket to connection and healing -when it is appropriate.....we need wisdom & courage here. 

I am the type of person who simply can not carry resentment around, I FEEL things too strongly....it would turn me into a Bi***. I am not the type to get depressed .... I get angry .....its the outward expression, And I don't like being that way , so whether it is my husband (near never) , my friends, family members, I choose to take whatever it is that is eating me up inside, write it out, and HUMBLY confront - making sure to include my own shortcomings in this -as to not put them on the defensive-so we can come to a healthier understanding of why this happened & what we can do about it, even if it is to "agree to disagree", I simply MUST visit these places...... For my own well being. I need to know where I stand with those I care enough about to even allow a resentment to spring up. 

And sometimes, when I write it all out, I come to realize it was more MY issue and I must let it go -burn that letter, Live & let be ....sometimes I may have to apologize for *my *behavior. 


A measure of vulnerabilty seems to come easy for me many times .....Maybe because I have a safe place to land with my husband & family- in this way nothing outside can really hurt me, or wound me too much. I figure if others do not really like or appreciate who I am, the good with the bad - I learned something valuable....I'll grieve & move on. But I simply gotta be ME. I find this has been more of a blessing -than a hinderance in my life. 

I have *never *had a time I felt resentment towards my husband.... the closest thing was when I learned of him (3 yrs ago) stuffing his feelings & suffering over not getting enough sex in our past.....this angered me (& I cried for what we missed)...but that was unfair of me, I needed to get rid of that. 

Urban Dictionary: resentment

Definition # 2 said..... : "When you take the poison and expect someone else to die".

He, on the other hand (after a little more digging on my part)....admitted he had some resentment growing towards me.....when he was not getting enough sex & I was too into our kids, etc ....He told me he secretly wanted me to suffer like him, he tried to not bother me , and I probably shouldn't have done this.....but I started laughing when he told me this, pissed him off a little bit, I was almost rolling on the floor.....because it was so utterly rediculous to me....I seriously had NO FREAKING IDEA all of this was going on in his head.....not a living clue ....so if this was his method, boy was he off track!! ....I mean, he gave in every single time after me coming on to him saying "come on Honey, I need you".....here he was in all this silent turmoil, but yet dying for it - him taking this poison and wanting me to feel it --and I simply didn't feel a darn thing!! 

This is why I joke with him now.....I will put his balls in a vise if he ever goes back to being this passive with me, this is terribly counterproductive....express yourself ! I can handle this -no matter what it is, we'll work it out. 

One thing GREAT about my husband is ..... he is very FORGIVING, never holds onto anything, we are BOTH like this, we never let the sun go down on our anger ....when it has been talked through, it is tossed in the ocean . And of course we both strive to walk in our resolutions with each other. 

This has served our marraige well.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Trenton said:


> The young girl walks around the maze constantly declaring, "It's not fair!"


Resentment many times is tied to a sense of entitlement ("She owes me sex because I'm her husband.") and unrealistic expectations ("If he truly loved me, he should know it without me having to tell him."). Instead of trying to diffuse it like adults, most of the time we allow our inner, temper tantrum throwing inner brat to feed it.

Anyway, feeling sleepy, I think I'm going to call it a night. Good night folks and sweet dreams y'all.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

morituri said:


> Resentment many times is tied to a sense of entitlement ("She owes me sex because I'm her husband.") and unrealistic expectations ("If he truly loved me, he should know it without me having to tell him.


THIS is how my husband felt, he wouldn't even masterbate during the week cause he felt- since we married, this was my place to take care of him......I just should have known how he was feeling ....(but as I learned ....us women most often just *don't get it *!). I have never in this world looked at him as someone who felt entitled though .... just too passive. Never a temper throwing inner brat. I couldn't say that about him at all. 

Thankfully his resentment didn't grow all that much, and it was only over this 1 area , nothing else, he has said even when things were "dry", he was still happy, we had the kids, life was still good.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

tobio said:


> I read Trenton's thread and related to it a LOT.
> 
> I have realised over the past year that I harbour a sizeable chunk of resentment. Like you Deejo I don't want to have it in my relationship. I have thought about it a lot recently and the effect it has on me, my OH and our relationship.
> 
> ...


For me you demonstrate a good amount of wisdom here. There are a few things.

(1) When it’s deep resentment and forgiveness is not possible it needs an intervention from a third party to clear it up. I think it rare that the couple, the two people, have the necessary skills, experience and wisdom to clear it up by themselves. And to that end they should seek out a counsellor well experienced in helping couples in these situations. Either that or go on a marriage course like Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church. These people know about resentment and how damaging it is to a marriage.

(2) In effect you are persecuting your husband for crimes from the past. It’s like he’s committed his offence but he’ll never do his "time". If he wakes up to that, that there’s absolutely nothing he can do to stop you from persecuting him he may well leave you. It’s doubtful he will because of his children. But he may well start to withdraw his love from you, even if this is unconsciously.

(3) Your resentment of your partner is preventing love from growing deeper and broader. You may not know it, but it is. It’s starts by “withholding” loving actions and that then becomes a habit and the habit subsequently becomes a way of life.

(4) Resentment if not resolved transforms into embitterment. Embitterment then becomes a way of life against the person we supposedly love. And like any disorder it is exceptionally difficult to “cure”. It’s actually a proposed new disorder, Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder Post-traumatic embitterment disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Tobio I really think you are doing well and your thoughts are spot on wrt resentment. Take advice from an oldie and do you whatever you can to get it cured. There are Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church programs in England. I believe they are free, I know they are not participatory, they are guides and they will show you the way. I heard about them from one of my son’s friend’s parents, as they run them in England. They are a delightful couple, full of wisdom and you’ll need a lot of wisdom to help you through these things.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

morituri said:


> Resentment many times is tied to a sense of entitlement ("She owes me sex because I'm her husband.") and unrealistic expectations ("If he truly loved me, he should know it without me having to tell him."). Instead of trying to diffuse it like adults, most of the time we allow our inner, temper tantrum throwing inner brat to feed it.


Although I truly don't want to argue the point of how the two sexes deal with resentment, I do think there are distinct differences ... not good or bad ... just different.

I will make the claim that my analogy directly corresponds to my own circumstances, but, my experience in being familiar with the circumstances of others bears a lot of similarity.

Some folks, including myself, are like slow-cookers when it comes to resentment. Takes a long time before the offending behavior actually becomes offensive. In the interim, you attempt to discuss, address, or call out the behavior ... but it continues, much like in my case with my ex, regarding sex, equity of responsibility, and meeting emotional needs, or in Trenton's case with her husband and his need to be a workaholic.

Other people are like fryolators. Offensive behavior immediately gets categorized and filed away ... and it isn't addressed, discussed, forgiven, or forgotten ... ever. In fact the offenses simply compound to the point where your partner begins focusing on why they shouldn't like you, instead of the reasons why they should.
This is more in line with my ex-wife, and I don't make that contrast with malice. 

I find it unfortunate that your partner can say the words that they have forgiven you, but in truth ... they haven't. They may want to, they may know that forgiveness is the thing that will propel the relationship, and their own sense of well being forward, but ... they can't or don't actually let it, whatever 'it' is, go. 

Lots of good stuff here. And once again, I strongly agree that a willingness to allow yourself to be vulnerable is a huge factor in being able to forgive, forget, and let go of resentment.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I refuse to be held hostage for my imperfections. Because for every one thing I do wrong, I do dozens, maybe hundreds of things right. And I would choose not to stay with someone who WANTED to cling to anger and resentment.


This is what helps me let go of resentment I may have for something my husband did in the past. We all have imperfections and have behaved in ways we wish we could take back. I wouldn't want to be crucified for the rest of my life for something I said or did, was sorry for, and never did again. 

My husband deserves the same. One mistake does not define who he is. I don't want a mistake from the past to overshadow the good things he brings to our marriage on a daily basis.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

COguy said:


> *To me resentment is like a subconcious form of unforgiveness.* It shows you're still harboring anger for deeds in the past. I think the effects of resentment are the same as unforgiveness. It's not healthy, and it's not sustainable in a marriage.
> 
> I think it's difficult to get rid of resentment because unforgiveness is a natural mechanism we employ to protect ourselves from pain. It's like if someone kicks you in the nuts a dozen times, you're naturally going to protect that region when they are around you. Letting go of the resentment is similar to letting your guard down when the nut-kicker is right in front of you. It takes a lot of positive experiences to undo a negative or painful one. How many times would nut-kicker have to come around you and show no aggression before you put your guard down? How many people would never put their guard down?
> 
> ...


For some people, being unforgiving is an exceedingly conscious act. They say things like “I’ll never ever forgive you”. And this could be for something from 20 years back. And that’s persecution.

And then there are others like me where being forgiving is an exceedingly conscious act. For me, I’m always ready to forgive. It’s a very big part of who I am and I try instant forgiveness. It’s part of Buddhist teachings, but it’s like I am anyway.

If I can’t forgive then I’ll have nothing to do with the person I’m unable to forgive. Because for me that’s being exceptionally two faced, it’s taking in one hand while maintaining anger and dislike in the other hand for the same person. I am way too principled to do that sort of thing.



The trick with forgiveness, for me at least, is to always forgive but create a new boundary such that the person who committed the “offence” is never allowed to do the same thing to me again. If the person who committed the offence does not accept and abide by my new boundary then the relationship for me is over.

I’m still deeply in love with my wife and I know she wants back with me. But I’ll never have her back unless she respects my boundaries as I know she’ll just repeat the same behaviour and that’s way too painful for me.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Endgame said:


> I could use a little help here trying to understand resentment and hidden anger. The kind that last for decades.
> 
> My marriage of 20 years just ended. I won't go into much detail but it involves an EA, stalking, loss of job, and a few other things that my ex partook of.
> 
> ...


You may want to look into and research paranoid schizophrenia. Essentially a person with the condition suffers from episodes of paranoid delusions. I mention this because of the way you say you “feel”, riddled with guilt. It’s part and parcel of living with a person who has the condition. From their point of view they actually think you are out to “get them”. They are quite literally deluded about it and there’s literally nothing you can do about it, reasoning, rationalising with them just doesn’t work.

I know about it because my wife’s family is susceptible to it, it’s in the genes. My wife’s brother took his own life because of it and my younger son has been diagnosed as having it. I believe my wife has it although in her case it’s mild as yet but it gets worse as they get older. When I look back it explains so much wrt her false accusations against me, she was quite literally having an episode of paranoid delusion.

Sad thing is I know there’s absolutely nothing I can do to help either my wife or my son.



Search terms to use are like “living with a person who has paranoid schizophrenia”. You’ll then find the symptoms you feel e.g. guilt and hopefully it will explain things to you, put your mind at rest and bring peace and harmony to you if indeed PS is in the mix.

Bob


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

I don't think of resentment as a bad thing. You're holding on to an issue that hurt you and I don't see much wrong with that. I think how we choose to respond to resentment is what hurt relationships. Not realizing that resentment is a you issue and not your partners issue is a killer. I need to be self aware enough to understand if my actions are caused by my resenments. Its a me issue if everytime my wife goes to her friends house for night out I get pissy before hand because she used to drink too much when she went out. It's not an issue if I still remember the bad times. It's an issue if I allow past events drive my current actions in negative way.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Kobo said:


> *I don't think of resentment as a bad thing.* You're holding on to an issue that hurt you and I don't see much wrong with that. I think how we choose to respond to resentment is what hurt relationships. Not realizing that resentment is a you issue and not your partners issue is a killer. I need to be self aware enough to understand if my actions are caused by my resenments. Its a me issue if everytime my wife goes to her friends house for night out I get pissy before hand because she used to drink too much when she went out. It's not an issue if I still remember the bad times. It's an issue if I allow past events drive my current actions in negative way.


I highly recommend you change that belief


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I highly recommend you change that belief


Na. Its about being able to control your actions. People here will continue to struggle to try to "let go" of resentment. They'll get divorced because they can't "let go" of their resentment. A much easier and effective action is to understand that you are human and have this resentment for a specific issue but won't let it direct your actions. Do you think a woman can "let go" of her resentment if a man beats a her for years but changes and has become a good man that cherishes her? How about a husband where his wife has cheated on him and decides to reconcile? Do you think he will ever really "let go". What we can do is learn to control our actions in response to resentment. The same way we learn to control our actions when we get angry, or learn to control ourselves when we get a little anxious about an issue.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Kobo said:


> Na. Its about being able to control your actions. People here will continue to struggle to try to "let go" of resentment. They'll get divorced because they can't "let go" of their resentment. A much easier and effective action is to understand that you are human and have this resentment for a specific issue but won't let it direct your actions. Do you think a woman can "let go" of her resentment if a man beats a her for years but changes and has become a good man that cherishes her? How about a husband where his wife has cheated on him and decides to reconcile? Do you think he will ever really "let go". What we can do is learn to control our actions in response to resentment. The same way we learn to control our actions when we get angry, or learn to control ourselves when we get a little anxious about an issue.


Well we disagree, no probs there. If you are still harbouring resentment it means you haven’t forgiven. So your wife is an “unforgiven person”. Best she not become aware of that, believe me because she may come to realise that you are persecuting her. You may not even be conscious of that and you may not even consider yourself as a persecutor, and that’s all well and good. But the thing is there are two of you in the equation and your wife will have a view.

Just go ahead, be honest if you haven't already and tell her you’ll never ever forgive her her past offences against you and see what the response is. As a woman she will know what you mean and what the consequences are. I don’t recommended it but at the very least your wife should thank you for your honesty should she choose to walk out the door. That’s the bit unforgiving, resentful people don’t get, the affect it has on their chosen life partner.

Plus because you haven’t forgiven your wife you will still recall the event that caused your resentment in the first place. And along with that recollection you will also feel, although to a lesser extent, the emotions you felt at the time of the offence. That is, within your mind and your emotions you will relive the offence time and time again. That’s what unforgiving people do. Eventually they become an embittered person, over time it all adds up sort of thing.



On the other hand if you go through a process of forgiving you actually forget about the offence. In time it goes from your short term memory into your long term memory. It’s like an old dusty cupboard, filing cabinet. The offence goes on a shelf and is for all intents and purposes forgotten about. It’s never totally eradicated from the memory that doesn’t happen. But it is such that the original offence along with all its emotions never comes into play in the current time. For me that’s how things should be.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Na. Its about being able to control your actions. People here will continue to struggle to try to "let go" of resentment. They'll get divorced because they can't "let go" of their resentment. A much easier and effective action is to understand that you are human and have this resentment for a specific issue but won't let it direct your actions. Do you think a woman can "let go" of her resentment if a man beats a her for years but changes and has become a good man that cherishes her? How about a husband where his wife has cheated on him and decides to reconcile? Do you think he will ever really "let go". What we can do is learn to control our actions in response to resentment. The same way we learn to control our actions when we get angry, or learn to control ourselves when we get a little anxious about an issue.


Kobo,
I've really been spending a lot of time with a therapist in understanding the true nature of resentment - namely my wife's. It almost led to our divorce, and I still have a brick wall of a deadline that I've given myself going forward. First, you can't assume that resentment is always justified, or especially, you can't assume that the level of resentment is proportional to the overall health of the marriage. Frankly, while most people are pretty rational in harboring resentment, quite a few aren't. Resentment can be a psychological disease, when taken to the extreme. What led me to ask for a divorce at the 22 year mark was when my wife told me meaningfully that I had been an incredible husband. At the times that she considered to be most beautiful in our marriage, I thought the woman really, really didn't like me. Go figure! I'll not pose as a saint by any means, but I really, really tried to build something great in our marriage, but usually felt like quite the loser.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Well we disagree, no probs there. If you are still harbouring resentment it means you haven’t forgiven. So your wife is an “unforgiven person”. Best she not become aware of that, believe me because she may come to realise that you are persecuting her. You may not even be conscious of that and you may not even consider yourself as a persecutor, and that’s all well and good. But the thing is there are two of you in the equation and your wife will have a view.
> 
> Just go ahead, be honest if you haven't already and tell her you’ll never ever forgive her her past offences against you and see what the response is. As a woman she will know what you mean and what the consequences are. I don’t recommended it but at the very least your wife should thank you for your honesty should she choose to walk out the door. That’s the bit unforgiving, resentful people don’t get, the affect it has on their chosen life partner.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not as old as you but I can tell you a memory of someone offending me in sixth grade and even beyond. That memory doesn't drive my actions today towards that person. My dad left when I was a young child. He cheated on my mother. I'll never forget that but have forgiven him. When I see his interaction with my half sister and brother the memory that he wasn't around for me comes back but again it doesn't drive my actions. I still go down to see him with my family and we have a great time. I'll never lose the hurt from no birthday cards, presents, or times together like graduation but that hurt doesn't require me to take it out on him. I don't live with the belief that the people you love won't hurt you. I understand that I will do things that hurt others and they will do things that hurt me but once we move forward we move forward. We don't keep reaching back and allow those previous hurts to continue to have a hold on us.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Halien said:


> Kobo,
> I've really been spending a lot of time with a therapist in understanding the true nature of resentment - namely my wife's. It almost led to our divorce, and I still have a brick wall of a deadline that I've given myself going forward. First, you can't assume that resentment is always justified, or especially, you can't assume that the level of resentment is proportional to the overall health of the marriage. Frankly, while most people are pretty rational in harboring resentment, quite a few aren't. Resentment can be a psychological disease, when taken to the extreme. What led me to ask for a divorce at the 22 year mark was when my wife told me meaningfully that I had been an incredible husband. At the times that she considered to be most beautiful in our marriage, I thought the woman really, really didn't like me. Go figure! I'll not pose as a saint by any means, but I really, really tried to build something great in our marriage, but usually felt like quite the loser.


I feel a bit squirrelly consistently hearkening back to my marriage, but ... that was the arena in which most of this stuff became so evident to me.

I was absolutely prepared to move forward ... if my wife would let go of her affair partner and actively engage in working on the marriage. I had already forgiven her. 

We could have avoided financial armageddon. We could have avoided splitting up our family, and trauma to our children. To my mind, the practical up-sides of trying to work it out were enormous.

But ... she couldn't do it. And I do believe most of those reasons had to do with her upbringing in a mentally abusive household, and undoubtedly, part of it was her inability to let go of someone that filled the emotional gap, namely TOM. Using MEM's analogy, despite my having gotten being a good husband, father and partner, 90% right (and I firmly believe she would agree with that)... she could only focus on the 10% that had caused her anguish and pain.

My philosophy was the opposite.

I was willing to wipe the slate clean. I was willing to do the work ... and specifically, to risk being emotionally vulnerable again.

The last part was simply a risk she could not take. And I don't resent her for feeling what she feels. Not anymore.

I don't think she wants to resent me ... but she nonetheless does.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Using MEM's analogy, despite my having gotten being a good husband, father and partner, 90% right (and I firmly believe she would agree with that)... she could only focus on the 10% that had caused her anguish and pain.


I think this is what I'm getting at. People focus on that little bit right there even though taken as a whole things are pretty good. Of course there are boundaries and what not. I'll give an example from my marriage since we're sharing Deejo  I like having a clean house and I'm extremely particular. It caused issues early on. We eventualy worked on it communicated better, yada yada yada. Anyway there would be times when I came home and it would be like an explosion. I would get angry even though 90% of the time the house was good. I would slam things and just behave badly. After reading books, this site and others I realized that this behavior was tied back to when the house was always a mess. when I saw the house not in order I was acting like it nothing had changed at all. I determined this was just stupid and weak minded. Our home was good to go most times. Things happen and she just didn't have the ability or time to get it all done THAT DAY. Now I can come in, see the house needs some work, keep my cool, and lend a hand.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Deejo said:


> I feel a bit squirrelly consistently hearkening back to my marriage, but ... that was the arena in which most of this stuff became so evident to me.
> 
> I was absolutely prepared to move forward ... if my wife would let go of her affair partner and actively engage in working on the marriage. I had already forgiven her.
> 
> ...


Yes but don't you feel you're in a good place for any future relationships? I mean I can already tell from your other thread you are willing to let someone go if you know it's not going to work out.

It sucks that your wife couldn't let go, but the bright side is you have the ability to form new relationships and start a healthy relationship with someone with all of your experiences. Namely, with someone who can forgive and let go.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> Plus because you haven’t forgiven your wife you will still recall the event that caused your resentment in the first place. And along with that recollection you will also feel, although to a lesser extent, the emotions you felt at the time of the offence. That is, within your mind and your emotions you will relive the offence time and time again. That’s what unforgiving people do. Eventually they become an embittered person, over time it all adds up sort of thing.
> 
> On the other hand if you go through a process of forgiving you actually forget about the offence. In time it goes from your short term memory into your long term memory. It’s like an old dusty cupboard, filing cabinet. The offence goes on a shelf and is for all intents and purposes forgotten about. It’s never totally eradicated from the memory that doesn’t happen. But it is such that the original offence along with all its emotions never comes into play in the current time. For me that’s how things should be.


I agree with this SO VERY MUCH, and I will give an example from my own life... I hated my step Mother, I had to endure her after my Mother took off with a drunk when I was about 10, she didn't even want her own kids, she wanted my dad to herself .... lucky me was blessed to live with her & her 'resentment" I was crowding her time with my father. 

I used to write on my bedroom walls how much I hated her, my friends moms were more like family...and you know what ....I have totally FORGOTTEN some of the things she did to me back then, My husband reminded me how bad it was - not even wanting to tell our kids- who like her!.... she used to put notes on the fridge to not touch certain food- my husband recalls swear words, they would eat steakwhile I got hamburger, I wasn't given lunch $$ half of the time, I practically lived in my room, not to be heard, if I got in trouble, I could be grounded a month...ON my 18th birthday, he brought me home to find they emptied my bedroom on the front porch, I was done living there, and I was told to not come back.

And funny, I was a very compliant and good child, good grades, never gave them any trouble. 

I am ever thankful I had my husband back then to catch my every fall. 

You know what, I forgot about ALL OF this, I know there is more but I am having a hard time recalling it -I'd have to sit here & rack my brain. He had to remind me, I have transformed those memories to what was good, and me & her are close today, we have even had some very vulnerable moments together when my dad was in the hospital , tearful even, I believe she was meant to be with him. BUt she did suck as a parent. 

She even tells me if anyone has the right to be angry, it is ME cause I had to put up with her -she KNOWS she was rough on me , very rough....Her own 2 kids do not even talk to her--for years & years. I am not a doormat, but I do forgive, I let go of it all. And amazingly, I forget too.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Kobo said:


> Well, I'm not as old as you but I can tell you a memory of someone offending me in sixth grade and even beyond. That memory doesn't drive my actions today towards that person. My dad left when I was a young child. He cheated on my mother. I'll never forget that but have forgiven him. When I see his interaction with my half sister and brother the memory that he wasn't around for me comes back but again it doesn't drive my actions. I still go down to see him with my family and we have a great time. I'll never lose the hurt from no birthday cards, presents, or times together like graduation but that hurt doesn't require me to take it out on him. I don't live with the belief that the people you love won't hurt you. I understand that I will do things that hurt others and they will do things that hurt me but once we move forward we move forward. We don't keep reaching back and allow those previous hurts to continue to have a hold on us.


Well then we are not in disagreement. As you say it is having the wisdom to know, and accept, that we will get hurt in our marriage. It kind of comes with the territory. There are some that can let it go and not affect future behaviour while there are others that will never let it go. Believe it or not the latter, at the extreme end of the spectrum, think on the offence every single day of their life and hence maintain it in their short term memory to be recalled in an instant. You don’t sound like one of those types of people and if you’re not it’s almost impossible to conceive of it. It took me a long time to get it.


You still have the memory of your father but you have let it go and moved on in such a way that it doesn’t affect your current behaviour. Although it probably does in a positive way in that you will have learnt from it and will not repeat your father’s mistakes no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. In part that’s how we build our beliefs, values and rules of behaviour and makes us the person we are.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

COguy said:


> Yes but don't you feel you're in a good place for any future relationships? I mean I can already tell from your other thread you are willing to let someone go if you know it's not going to work out.
> 
> It sucks that your wife couldn't let go, but the bright side is you have the ability to form new relationships and start a healthy relationship with someone with all of your experiences. Namely, with someone who can forgive and let go.


In short, yes.

I've been dating pretty regularly, with periods of being very comfortable being alone.

I don't hold onto resentment. Never really have. But ... certainly did not know how to adequately approach, address or deal with issues that came up in previous LTR's and my marriage.

I have much better boundaries. A much more balanced awareness, and my 'code of conduct'.

I do feel like my experience with resentment within my marriage was an absolute wrecking ball. I don't doubt that it can, or has been the case with many others.

Resentment strikes me as one of those conditions that everyone knows about, is aware of, and can see, and knows what needs be done to avoid it ... nonetheless they are invariably afflicted by it.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with this SO VERY MUCH, and I will give an example from my own life... I hated my step Mother, I had to endure her after my Mother took off with a drunk when I was about 10, she didn't even want her own kids, she wanted my dad to herself .... lucky me was blessed to live with her & her 'resentment" I was crowding her time with my father.
> 
> I used to write on my bedroom walls how much I hated her, my friends moms were more like family...and you know what ....I have totally FORGOTTEN some of the things she did to me back then, My husband reminded me how bad it was - not even wanting to tell our kids- who like her!.... she used to put notes on the fridge to not touch certain food- my husband recalls swear words, they would eat steakwhile I got hamburger, I wasn't given lunch $$ half of the time, I practically lived in my room, not to be heard, if I got in trouble, I could be grounded a month...ON my 18th birthday, he brought me home to find they emptied my bedroom on the front porch, I was done living there, and I was told to not come back.
> 
> ...


Yes if a person forgives it’s like forgetting. It never leaves the memory but it doesn’t affect everyday living or future planning quite simply because its never thought about. My MIL was real bad at this stuff, she’d recall something that happened as a five year old when she was in her seventies as though it happened just yesterday. One time her sister flew all the way up from Australia to see her and within two hours MIL was at her throat for something that happened between them when she was eight years old some sixty years previously. It’s terrible stuff, they’re massive grudge holders.

But with some of these people the very real problem is they have no idea of the damage they do. My MIL is a case in point. Her younger son became just like her, a massive grudge holder. Instead of being taught to understand basic humanity and interactions, about emotions and how to deal with them, instead of demonstrating wisdom and forgiveness she taught him the exact opposite. The overall end result was that he took his own life and the lives of other people and created total carnage and trauma in many other people’s lives.

Most people just don’t understand the extreme end of the spectrum of these things. At the extreme end it is a mental illness like paranoid schizophrenia.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Halien said:


> Kobo,
> I've really been spending a lot of time with a therapist in understanding the true nature of resentment - namely my wife's. It almost led to our divorce, and I still have a brick wall of a deadline that I've given myself going forward. First, you can't assume that resentment is always justified, or especially, you can't assume that the level of resentment is proportional to the overall health of the marriage. Frankly, while most people are pretty rational in harboring resentment, quite a few aren't. Resentment can be a psychological disease, when taken to the extreme. What led me to ask for a divorce at the 22 year mark was when my wife told me meaningfully that I had been an incredible husband. At the times that she considered to be most beautiful in our marriage, I thought the woman really, really didn't like me. Go figure! I'll not pose as a saint by any means, but I really, really tried to build something great in our marriage, but usually felt like quite the loser.


That’s the other side of the resentment coin, the resented person. The resentful person doesn’t really have any idea of the damage caused by their resentment. It can actually kill marriages. It’s not always the resentful person who ends the marriage. In my case I was the resented/unforgiven one and I left because of it, I couldn’t stand it anymore.

Resentment is a choice. And every single day a person holds onto their resentment they are actually choosing not to forgive the person they say they love. For me it’s horrible stuff.

I read once that once a man makes his mind up his marriage is over there is no going back for him. In my case it is so very true. It doesn’t matter how much I’m in love with her I’ll never have her back, it’s the only protection I have from her. I know that now.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

There is a question I have been pondering which ties in nicely to the forgetting aspect. I will give an example so it makes more sense...

Yesterday I found a strange woman's name on my OH's Facebook on the drop-down menu. My first reaction was curiosity: who is this woman? I checked her out and did not know her or of her. I asked OH who is xxxxxx? 

He had no idea. Looked later and realised it was the girlfriend of a work colleague. He could not remember looking at her page. Sarcastically told me, "thanks" (for spoiling his evening.) Later said, "this has to stop" (the suspicion.)

So going on the theory of forgiving means forgetting, does this mean if I had truly forgiven OH I woyld never have thought, hang on, why is he checking out strange women? Given that prior to his thing with the girl at work, I trusted him (I can honestly say) implicitly. Absolutely 100% no questions asked. This is what confuses me. Previously I would have maybe asked in passing or even not bothered.

The forgiveness for me lies in accepting he acted like he did and that I know he is not a "bad" person or that what happened defines him. That part for me is very distant now. I do feel anger - which is really more a sadness now. It is like an accepting sadness I think more and more. I feel sad but it is how it is and no amount of anger will change what happened so I replace it with the thoughts of the good stuff he does and all the ways he shows he cares which helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

tobio said:


> There is a question I have been pondering which ties in nicely to the forgetting aspect. I will give an example so it makes more sense...
> 
> Yesterday I found a strange woman's name on my OH's Facebook on the drop-down menu. My first reaction was curiosity: who is this woman? I checked her out and did not know her or of her. I asked OH who is xxxxxx?
> 
> ...


You had what’s called a trigger. There’s a thing called post traumatic stress disorder. In essence, a trigger of a traumatic event can recreate the emotions felt at the time of the original trauma. It brings the memory into current, short term memory and along with the memory come the emotions associated with the original trauma.

It is why when you are still living with the person that created the trauma in you in the first place, that person has to be extremely vigilant about their behaviour. This is so that you don’t get hurt again by a trigger.

It could be said that if you didn’t snoop you would never have got the trigger. I disagree with that. I’d want to know why on earth was he looking at someone else’s girlfriend and I’d want a reasonable and rational answer, one that I could understand.

I don’t think he’s got it as yet Tobio. I think you have and you’re on the right path. You might tell him he’s into probably a few years of your “suspicions” and they are a direct consequence of his past behaviour. So he’d better be squeaky clean from now on if he wishes to regain your trust.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Darn AFEH, you explained that so well to Tobio. I agree with every word. She has MUCH reason to feel as she does, this will take some time and he does need to be extremely diligent about his behavior considering what he has done. I would feel exactly the same. I also would want to KNOW why he was looking & demand a real answer. He should expect nothing less.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

AFEH said:


> You had what’s called a trigger. There’s a thing called post traumatic stress disorder. In essence, a trigger of a traumatic event can recreate the emotions felt at the time of the original trauma. It brings the memory into current, short term memory and along with the memory come the emotions associated with the original trauma.


I have read this thread with interest. Although I don't hold grudges and I wouldn't say I've had an issue with resentment as such, reading about triggers has really struck me. It's so obvious, why didn't I recognize it?!! Thank you AFEH. 

My mother was recently visiting and staying with us. I had a pretty decent childhood, all in all. But from an early age, I remember dealing with her depression. It was at its worst when I was a teenager. It seems my dad didn't know how to deal with her moods, her depression, and the breakdown of their marriage, so he wasn't there much. My brother wasn't around either, being older than me he was doing his thing at that age, and it was me that had to deal with it. All the emotions and resentment she had towards my father; her mention of suicide; sometimes coming home after school to find her still in bed; this is what I experienced. I dealt with it the best I could at the time. I'm not saying "woe is me" my childhood was pretty good despite this. It's just my story. I avoided cooking for a long time because I tried to cook dinner for her/us as a teen and was criticized. I have noticed that I seem to have a lot of compassion for others who struggle with depression as a result though.

From her visit with us and, despite her currently not being depressed, hearing my H (who thinks highly of her) tell me that he found it difficult having her stay with us and that it must have been hard growing up - feeling validated for my emotions - and then being triggered to the past, is what brought this very much into the present. She has blocked most of those memories out of her mind, likely too painful to deal with or face. I cooked for her during this recent visit and she was extremely encouraging. I ended up showing her a few recipes to make. And what felt best of all, was that I didn't feel the need to prove myself to make up for the past. I didn't need that from her. She has welcomed me to share what I went through to help me get over it but knowing how sensitive she is and how much she deeply cares, I don't feel the need to share that with her. It will come back to being my responsibility of letting go anyway, so that's where I'm at. 

What makes it somewhat easier for me is that while dealing with it back then, my escape mechanism was music. I became obsessed with buying records and music became my outlet. This is what led me to being a DJ. And guess what that led me to? ....meeting my husband


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Wouldn't it be nice if triggers were consistent both ways? In other words, that your partner could do or say something that would make you recall and feel something positive and wonderful?

Unfortunately, I don't believe they do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if triggers were consistent both ways? In other words, that your partner could do or say something that would make you recall and feel something positive and wonderful?
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't believe they do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


These would be triggers of good memories! I have lots of these  and yes, he can trigger them.

I suppose the ideal is to get to the point of not judging or having to label events in our life this way. This probably expands to a conversation beyond resentment and more about a state of "being". There would not be resentment present in that state. And again, comes down to personal responsibility anyway. Does this make sense or do I need more caffeine?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if triggers were consistent both ways? In other words, that your partner could do or say something that would make you recall and feel something positive and wonderful?
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't believe they do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think they definitely can, it just takes more work. Pavlov's dogs had a positive trigger.

Your body is wired to deflect against pain. Negative reinforcement is the fastest way of stifling behavior or creating protective mechanisms.

For a positive association, it takes more time and more exposure. If I ring a bell and smack you in the face, you're going to flinch if I ring the bell again. If I ring a bell and give you a donut, it's going to take a few rings before you start thinking donut time.

I have some positive triggers. This one song my wife made into a CD for me sets me off every time I hear it. I listened to it pretty much nonstop on the bus ride for 24 hours. Every time I hear it I think about the beginning of our relationship and how infatuated we were. How optimistic we were about the future and how we just enjoyed eachother's company.

I heard it during the time I thought we were splitting up and started wailing (it was like a gut-wrenching sob). I remembered those good memories and just could not believe that the same person that evoked those good memories was hurting me so badly.

Another thing that sets me off in a good way is when someone scratches the roof of my car with their nails. It reminds me of this comment I said when the first time my wife did it, and how we laughed about it for so long. Whenever someone does it now (usually my wife), I think back to the fun car rides we had and how we could just laugh and joke about stupid stuff.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if triggers were consistent both ways? In other words, that your partner could do or say something that would make you recall and feel something positive and wonderful?
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't believe they do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My thoughts are that resentful, unforgiving people “look back in anger”. It’s also to do with is the glass of life half empty or half full and if a person is either essentially optimistic or pessimistic. Sometimes the time of month, time of life etc. has a bearing on how we perceive the history of our life as well.

Here’s an example. We lived in Egypt for two years. It wasn’t ”easy” but I loved the place as I’m into history and archaeology. We had a very high standard of living and were members of five star sporting clubs with pools etc. etc. Whenever I tried to talk about our times there in company my wife would shoot me down with a bad experience she had. It’s that sort of thing. No mention of weekends at the Red Sea, the pools, holidays etc.

She’s the opposite to me in these things. I resolve the bad things in life as I go along and focus on the good in my past. Some people can’t see that good because they never resolved the bad and just focus on that.

But I’m one lucky and truly blessed man. I have over 3,000 photos going right back to 1968 when we first met, courting, wedding, birth of our sons etc. I’ve made these into a two hour video along with music from the times. So I have over 3,000 triggers of images along with music to recall all the good, happy and joyful times. It’s like a shrine of my time with my wife. I feel truly blessed to have kept all the photos and having the technical know-how of how to put it all together and most of all the time. I believe not many people get the opportunity I have and when they’re passing away they wonder “what happened in my life”. I know what happened in mine and I’m eternally grateful.





I’m also convinced it’s to do with some people not knowing what they have/had until they’ve lost it. My mother told me some 10 years after my father past away she didn’t know/realise what he did in the relationship and if she did she would have demonstrated a lot more appreciation to him. She felt really sad that she couldn’t tell him as it was too late.

My wife is the same. I thought she’d have done a lot more to fight to keep my by her side as we were splitting up. I gave her ultimatums which I knew she could handle and do the work if she had the inclination and will to do so. She didn’t. I know after we split up she couldn’t hold a job down, she'd either be staring into space or too upset to do anything. My son told me on his visit here that his mother’s discovered just how good she really did have it with me. I knew she’d become so exceptionally complacent with it all and was in for a big shock. In a way it was to be expected, she’d had me by her side taking care of her for 42 years and ended up so taking me for granted.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if triggers were consistent both ways? In other words, that your partner could do or say something that would make you recall and feel something positive and wonderful?
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't believe they do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I used to in my darker moments have a kind of reverse theory. Do you remember that scene out of the film "The Crow" where Brandon Lee is able to transfer all his anguish and pain to the bad guy near the end? It all goes flowing out of him to the other guy so he sees and feels it all. I used to wish I could give OH that insight so he could truly see how what he did made me feel.

Not so much now fortunately...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

tobio said:


> I used to in my darker moments have a kind of reverse theory. Do you remember that scene out of the film "The Crow" where Brandon Lee is able to transfer all his anguish and pain to the bad guy near the end? It all goes flowing out of him to the other guy so he sees and feels it all. I used to wish I could give OH that insight so he could truly see how what he did made me feel.
> 
> Not so much now fortunately...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great movie reference. One of my favorite love stories ...


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Great movie reference. One of my favorite love stories ...


I used to love that film!

I do think (going back a few posts) you can have positive triggers generally. I can think of some really cheesey stuff. We use a particular brand of massage oil which has a very distinctive smell. Back when I was pregnant with our youngest, we went on holiday when I was 39 weeks' pregnant. I was very huge and very achy and very tired! I wasn't up much for going out in the evening but didn't want OH to be stuck in all the time, so we concocted a "deal" whereby in the evening he would get the oil out and gave me a long relaxing body massage and he would pop out later with friends for a couple of beers while I relaxed. He was very attentive and took ages to relax me.

Whenever I smell that oil now I am always taken back to the evenings of that holiday and how caring and attentive he was over me. It's actually a very reassuring trigger, I think even more so being so heavily pregnant and feeling that tender love from him. Makes me feel all warm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Theoretically I think a bad trigger has 5 times more weight than a good one. But, I think that acts of love hold the trump card whether they are from an intimate lover or anyone else. If someone has achieved the ability to communicate love and sense of worth and value to another individual, then the triggers are pervasive no matter what. It could be how to peel an orange, the preparation and serving of French toast, a small digital stick-on clock in the shape of a frog to put in your first car that has no clock, a homeless person earning money in the city cleaning snow off cars who sees that your rear view is totally covered by snow sliding down the back and you are too scared to get out to clear it and he does it for you and blows you a friendly kiss and waves you goodbye does not want your money, it could be a lady with flowers going to see her daughter who talks to you while you're waiting for the train to come in the subway station because you know you are both beautiful sitting chatting behind those flowers and you want to share that together at that moment in time, it could be dumplings or fish your overseas 'auntie' made for you or the time you met her when you were really sick with fever and your H left you to go on a business trip and she was a relief nanny who came to help in a crisis and then stayed, and stayed and stayed and when you left the country you both sobbed like babies in the airport and made everyone else cry too because you knew you'd not see each other again in this lifetime short of a miracle. 

The hurtful stuff? It can't compare to that kind of love. But you have to be open to it and feel that you deserve it. I am not sure how that happens. 

Here's what I have to say today. My H hurt me very badly but I am Buddhist, Quaker. Dalai Lama says not to take anything personally. Do not be resentful. Make great efforts to avoid anger or revenge, this is for your own good. 

At 4:00 this morning I woke up and I know without a doubt, with no concrete proof at all that would stand up in a court of law, but with the kind of proof that is inviolable in my heart and intuition, that my H was sexually abused, tormented and humiliated in his childhood by his own sisters, bullied by his father, and unprotected by his mother who probably bought into the stories his sisters fed her to cover up their actions. He grew up into a woman hater, someone who craves the attention and protection of women but simultaneously hates them and unconsciously takes revenge on any woman who dares to love him. If I had not taken the advice of the Dalai Lama so seriously and been firm in my faith of non-violence (in action and thought, though nobody's perfect, but we're talking about firm in faith, rather than giving up, when things get challenging, digging in deeper) I would not have had this insight, the 'ah-hah' moment. Because of his history, he is dangerous for me to be around. I'm not a professional. I can't deal with this. But there are people who can. The things like swerving the car, marching behind me in the grocery store and mocking me...I get it now that they were impulsive acts he could not control, and the things that he could manage to control, but probably thought about, send shivers down my spine. I was right to follow my instinct to leave and to keep us both safe. Me from harm and him from doing harm.

But if I had resentment and anger and revenge in mind, I would not have had the opportunity and open-mindededness to see where the duality of his behavior towards me came from. I would have thought, he is BPD, he is psychopath. His behavior is like that, but when push comes to shove he is someone who has been so completely humiliated by a gang of three that 30 years later he is still working out his anger in his relationships with women. When he left me, he made that horrible statement, 'go back to your brother, then'. It didn't make sense, because my brother raped me and I cut ties with him, and he does stay away from me voluntarily, he gets that what happened was wrong and I cannot deal with seeing him (I would never say never). But for my H to say that out of the blue, when we had not even been talking about it, when I accepted his suggestion of divorce (after so many mentions of it during our marriage...that he somehow did not mean...but said, because I think he wanted to be rejected, to confirm that he could be rejected, 'proof' that I didn't love him, vs. the proof that the relationship is violent, abusive, due to his behavior towards me) I woke up at 4 a.m., KNOWING that he had been abused, and by whom, and the story that he told me about what he did to his sister and what he did to a neighbor girl in the closet, was not really the story at all. I am certain he was forced and bullied into doing those things, and more, and is too ashamed to admit it. I get it now when his sister called one day looking to talk to him, she was bored and not dating anyone after a failed marriage, and she said to me while we were talking (I think she was smoking some pot, but not much because she was caretaking someone at the time, an older lady...that was her job, yes I know  anyway, this sister died of liver failure due to alcohol and substance abuse, but what she said to me the day she called to talk to her brother was that she wanted some DINKY. ) My H does not get together much with his sisters, now I can see why, but he cannot admit to me or anyone the truth. I get that, but look how long and how pervasive his inaction and lack of being proactive towards his own mental health has perpetuated the violence that they started? He had a history of dating older women, I think he was looking for a mother figure to protect him. Younger women same age he seemed to be violent as soon as he was offered love, always being suspicious of why women wanted him, was it money, was it sex? I could go on and on but the truth is obvious to me now. 

Resentment will cloud your judgement. You will never gain true wisdom and peace if you harbor resentment. Suffering will not end. You might be able to protect yourself from one form of violence or hurt, but if you hang onto resentment and take things personally, that are not at ALL personal, the history of hurt will always belong to you as the sole receiver, and the damage will stick. Violence is rarely personal. So there is no need to hang onto the resentment that goes with it.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Wow HNU that is some deep thinking. You are very in tune with the world. 

I have always been interested in Buddhist thinking. Whilst some of it is hard to wrap my head round, what you say about not harbouring resentment is the kind of thing that intrigues me. The kind of thing I can totally see the benefit of but is not easy to give myself to. 

The thing about it not being personal is something I embraced and allowed me to forgive my OH's actions. I know that although they did hurt me, they were not borne out of any intention at all to hurt me. I think that is a distinction in itself that many have difficulty with. I wrestled with that for ages because I felt forgiveness was in some way saying that the fact he hurt me was/is okay. Eventually I came to a point where I understood why and how it happened and simply accepted it had along with the fact I couldn't change it.

My issue is that I find it difficult to accept that *I* have changed because of it. I always prided myself on being that trusting partner. I have not yet worked through that. I do not like the anxiety I have at times, the "what ifs". The most I can do is keep it in check based on his behaviour NOW and being truthful he does not really act suspiciously or give me much cause to question him - although it does happen from time to time. I do feel resentment because I MOURN who I used to be in that sense. I balance THAT with knowing that what has happened has made us stronger in many ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Tobio, with regards to trusting I will refer you to my three favorite characters: the magi. Yesterday was epiphany. The day they visited the Christ child. Even if you are not Christian, please humor me, you must know this story...and for this point, it is enough to believe only that it's a story. It was EASY for them to get there, they followed a star. No worries! But after they visited the baby and left their gifts, they had to go back. They were supposed to meet with Herod and give him info. They had all met on the way there. Not known to one another, presumably, strangers on the road. So on the way back, how did one of them muster up the courage to say, hey, guys, I got a bad feeling about Herod. I think I'm going to ignore his orders and sneak back to my home this other way! Hey now, that was treason, the other magi could have taken their weapons and lopped off his head right then and there. It is EASY to follow a shining star. It is MORE DIFFICULT to DISTRUST where there is a reason to distrust. Do you see that in this world there is a place for doing the difficult and courageous thing? We do not need to know the motives for Herod's evil, only that it was a bad thing and to be avoided. If one of the magi hadn't spoken up, the other ones might have kept silent and not concurred. Worse yet, they had no proof at all they were making the right decision, only a feeling. How could they know who that kid was? Did they ever know? They might have died not knowing, always doubting themselves and never knowing they did the right thing by not reporting back to Herod and trusting in their distrust. When you trust in your distrust, you are still trusting. It's along the same lines as distrusting your trust. When you do that, it's a lie. You're using a logical over-ride switch and that leads to mental havoc. So you see, it is impossible not to distrust something in this word. It's a fact of being that there is evil and that it should be distrusted. Whatever you had before was an illusion. Even as an infant you needed to learn trust. That's why babies are born with a clinging instinct as little monkeys are, and they learn not to use it. We are born with the instinct not to trust, and we learn to lose it. But we shouldn't lose it inappropriately. 

When I was 3, even before I knew about predators, some guy pulled alongside my yard and yep, offered me candy. I knew, just knew, not to go near him. He tried his best but he gave up. Distrust is good! 

As for distrusting a spouse, there are all sorts of things that can cause people to become unsafe. Like brain tumors, diabetes, schizophrenia, hallucinations, accidental or intentional drug/alcohol abuse, blackmail by someone else for a mistake or a setup, a hidden past coming back to haunt them. In a marriage, or any relationship, you MUST be your spouse's/friend's keeper. The only way to do this is with a healthy amount of trust and distrust both. 

I've been through a lot. I figured I might as well benefit from it. I invested heavily in therapy and self awareness and the teachings of the Dalai Lama because I saw no other path. 

Have you seen the movie "The Way", or how about "Buck"? Those are probably my two favorite movies this year, in terms of strengthening awareness. 

Anyway, Epiphany is a good thing to reflect on, even for non-religious people. It is what happened after following the easy navigational star. The journey back was an entirely different story altogether. One of trust and distrust and intuition and honoring both sides of the trust puzzle.

Thanks for the encouragement!


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