# Is he just stupid or am I? Pls advise



## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

I fear my story is too long for this forum but here goes. Married 30 years. 1st 20yrs weren't easy. Two different times I lived with extreme verbal and emotional abuse. Each one lasting around 2 yrs..and 3 yrs of WH detached. I see now where I'm probably codependent.
10 yrs ago I found his email acct open. Mostly porn sites and one EA affair and OW with basically just sick, trash sex talk emails back and forth. These would be the years of detachment. Was sorry, ended contact with both. I'm devastated. Married 19yrs at the time and only time he crossed the line. Worked thru it. I did the hysterical bonding thing. He was wonderful and committed. Asked me to renew our vows. Happiest of my life.
Last 10 years have been great.
Except for a red flag from years prior to all of this. Worst time in my life where he was just mean for no reason and I could never let it go. I've questioned him repeatedly about it for 19 years.
He confessed that he had cheated then has well only PA which he knows is the ultimate for me. He said he was so sick of it coming up that he just wanted me to shut up. After lying over and over for so long 
I suggested a poly. Oops...here comes 2 more. 3 PA before the 2 I knew of. Here what I don't understand. 1st time he seemed truely sorry. But now he's been hateful, intentially hurtful in details I told him I didn't want. It was like he enjoyed saying it. Then he would give a detail and a week later say it didn't happen. He doesn't know why he said it did. Of course a month down the road, yep, it did. He's made all MC and IC appts., reading, etc.
But I've had 18 D Days counting last night since December. He thinks we're working on this but how can R start til all is told? When admitting to anything he doesn't even seem like it bothers him for me to be hearing it. Is he detached or what????. All these happened during 1st 20 yrs. how do I process this? Should he get credit for the last 10years. I know he hasn't cheated. How am I ever to believe I know everything with all the BS games lies he's put me through. I see no remorse or guilt. 5 affairs and never really confessed to any unless caught or dragged out of him. Please give me some input.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You have my deepest sympathy.
You very well know what to do. He's a sadist. No empathy, no remorese, full of selfishness. 

Get yourself to an atty asap drop the MC baloney and use the $ to pay the atty. Read the 180 (click the link @ the bottom of my post).

Drop the dead weight you'll feel better. And you deserve better.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

So sorry to hear a story so similar to mine. :-( No when they have buried and hidden these secrets for so long once they unburdoned themselves they feel great....we freel like crap! It happened 10 -20 yrs ago so he doesn't really feel you can hold him accountable now too much water under that bridge right..... but for you it might as well have happened yesterday! I agree you need to hold him accountable ...read the 180. He needs to understand that he has hurt you and needs to makr amends. Don't sweep this under the rug for him....you will come to resent him if you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

broken30 said:


> .......
> But I've had 18 D Days counting last night since December. He thinks we're working on this but how can R start til all is told? When admitting to anything he doesn't even seem like it bothers him for me to be hearing it. Is he detached or what????. All these happened during 1st 20 yrs. how do I process this? Should he get credit for the last 10years.
> 
> *I know he hasn't cheated.*
> ...


With respect, how can you know that? I'd assume the reverse personally 

Good God it never ends the destruction and pain these people cause - CHOOSE TO CAUSE

Utter bastords


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is he mentally ill? Might be a cause?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm so very sorry this has happened to you.

But, here's the thing. Your husband didn't have _an_ affair, or even a couple, he's had _multiple_ affairs stretching pretty much the duration of your long marriage. Your husband is the very definition of a serial cheater. This is not an event, a mistake, a slip, or a lapse. This is his _lifestyle_. It's who and what he is. He likes his life this way and isn't likely to want it to be any other way. He did not do a selfish thing, he is a selfish person. 

Oh, and no, he doesn't "get credit" for not cheating for a few years. If he wasn't, which given his history is in serious question. A man doesn't "get credit" for all the times he didn't beat his wife, molest his kids, steal from his employer, or tag the hottie he had his eye on while his wife was at home watching the kids, that somehow "cancels out" all the times he did do those things. He gets credit for being a good man. Yours isn't.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Damn it! He just makes us men look bad. 30 years and not one truth from the sound of it. There could be more. This is a long time together and he was cake-eating for quite some time. Just flat out selfish. No credit given, he is not credit worthy. FICO score in the toilet, where you should have put his head after him coming clean somewhat.
IMHO, I would file, wake his sorry a** out of the fog. Is "R" possible maybe. But this guy will have to move heaven and earth twice a day, just to even get close to earning your trust. In addition, I think he has more to tell you. 30 years is not easy to leave, I know, 20 was not easy for me. For me, the best decision I have ever made. Good luck to you lady.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

That's a lot of red flags. He cheats, he lies, he lies about those lies, he intentionally inflicts emotional pain, he manipulates, etc... 18 d-days? That is a LOT of lying and sneaking around behind your back. Why are you so sure the past 10 years have been so different? I don't think he's stupid when it comes to doing what he's done, because clearly he is practiced at it. That's why you should be sure to stay on top of his activities. You're not stupid, but don't play the fool, either.

On the off chance that he has become the model husband and ceased his cheating and emotional abuse, it sounds like 10 years of not being a jerk would actually be quite an accomplishment for this guy.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

In my experience when the WS is being hateful, mean, short tempered, grouchy, blaming me for everything that goes wrong in our daily lives, he is in the midst of an affair. This is how he rationalizes what he is doing/has done in his mind so he is not the bad guy, he is the victim.

Even though we are in R , if my H gets tired and grouchy, I tune in to it and ask him what's up. It's not like before but I don't want to be the fool again, not knowing what is really going on.


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## beautiful_day (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. All I can tell you is that, from my experience, once you summon the courage to shout "ENOUGH" the relief is enormous. I cannot begin to describe it. 

But you have to be brave and walk through the fire of ending the marriage first, and have faith that there is freedom on the other side. 

Honestly, my life is so much better now I don't have to try and save a broken marriage to an angry liar any more. I've met a wonderful man who both adores me and is teaching me what normal looks like. I've never been so happy. 

Wishing you strength x


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

You are capable of moving on without him. You can handle divorce. Millions get cheated on and divorce. It's not the end of the world. Those are 20 years you'll never get back, but this isn't a game with a score. Take the rest of your life and put it to good use. 

Reward yourself and punish this person: move on. 

You are the victim, like many of us. For them to taunt you after only shows how low they truly are.

IF you want to give him yet another chance, let him earn it. Do not beg or plead. You will fail in that. 

They must carry the weight the weight and atone for their actions.


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom and support. 30 years is a long investment. Not all bad but...for me, it's seems to be the ones I'm remembering most right now.

I'm experiencing a lot of anger and rage at this time however, I also know that part is at myself for taking his abuse. i somehow am going to have to forgive myself for that. Unfortunately, I'm a Taurus and very stubborn at letting go of things and forgiving. That said, I WILL NOT live the rest of my life with bitterness. I am a survivor. I just wish God would quit testing my endurance. 

I read the link on the 180 and oddly enough, I feel that's where I've been the last week. It's sad to think I've spent so much of my life trying to fix him instead of taking care of myself. And yes, I believe WH has some mental issues which is no excuse. There's no doubt in my mind I suffer from PTSD as a result of his thoughtless, uncaring, selfish actions.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

30 yrs IS a long time. But there isn't going to be 40 unless you're willing to spend the next ten years in purgatory. 

See a doctor and get a full checkup - tell him/her what's going on in your life. You likely will be/are depressed (understandable). 

Get to an atty soon and find out what your rights/responsibilities are/will be in the event of the inevitable. Get closer to your friends and find other outlets - get some physical activity into your daily life. Gym, dance classes, etc. 

You're going to be fine. Act as if you had courage and courage will come to you.


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks Walkonmars,

I've seen my GP and Psychiatrist too. I'm bipolar. 

I hate that this kind of forum has to exist, but grateful it's here for everyone. It's nice to interact with others who know how it feels. I don't know that people can truly know the depth of pain unless they've experienced it. Unfortunately...

Starting the gym Monday!


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Being bipo is not a death sentence, it can be managed. Two of my family members have this. It just means you will feel this more than others. Highs an lows. These people here if you read their stories, are experienced. Exercising, eating right, meditation and so on will help you cope. I wasn't sure at first, but when reading on this forum, I took the advice and it helped. Stay strong, good luck to you.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

broken30 said:


> I fear my story is too long for this forum but here goes. Married 30 years. 1st 20yrs weren't easy. Two different times I lived with extreme verbal and emotional abuse. Each one lasting around 2 yrs..and 3 yrs of WH detached. I see now where I'm probably codependent.
> 
> 10 yrs ago I found his email acct open. Mostly porn sites and one EA affair and OW with basically just sick, trash sex talk emails back and forth. These would be the years of detachment. Was sorry, ended contact with both. I'm devastated. Married 19yrs at the time and only time he crossed the line. Worked thru it. I did the hysterical bonding thing. He was wonderful and committed. Asked me to renew our vows. Happiest of my life.
> 
> ...


Summary of your marriage based on your words:
30 Years of marriage, first 20 years your husband has 5 affairs. Last 10 years no affairs _(Oh, he manned-up, he grew a pair of balls )_. You discover everything _(Or you think YOU have??)_. Husband does IC/MC reading books _(books on how to continue cheating )_.

*Is that about right?* _(Apart from my cheeky humour! )_

The first 20 years of your marriage were a SHAM and your marriage was an OPEN marriage, only he never told YOU that once in the 20 years. No true guilt or no true remorse EVER. _(look no balls _!)

The last 10 years, if he is to be believed, then this is your REAL marriage where no affairs occurred, but where was the true guilt or true remorse in those 10 years. (_again look no balls_ !)

*20+10 = 30 years of "Broken30" promises and vows, right ? *

A man, a husband who cannot admit to his own failings in his life and has hurt, p1ssed on, sh1t on, his own wife for 30 years, is not a man, or a husband, no matter how many IC/MC's or books he reads. He has shown you his TRUE colours and he has NO TRUE GUILT AND NO TRUE REMORSE towards you or your marriage over last 30 years.

30 years IS a long time as others and YOU have stated. But in another 10 years it will be 40 years. Would rather keep guessing for the next 10 years his loyalty to YOU, or would rather spend it with a REAL MAN, REAL HUSBAND with a REAL PAIR OF BALLS! Who knows what those basic words of PROMISE and VOWS means?

Follow "Walkonmars" advice and disconnect yourself from this person who calls himself a man and husband, and reconnect with friends and family. Join Meetup.com and meet some new people and learn to laugh again. Please make my signatures below your own. 

Start a journal and write a sentence, a paragraph each day and review it weekly. You'll see patterns and pictures form from your own words of where you are now and what you need to do.


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

Broken30 i am so sorry for what you are going through. I am in the same boat more or less so i wonder if he truly has been faithful for past ten years why do you think he has? Why do you think he became faithful? How do you know is it his behavior toward you?. It does not matter when dday is for us bs because it feels like yesterday even if it were five ten twenty years ago. I have almost three decades invested in my relationship so i get your thought on that. I found oyt recently my wh had a pa five years ago. Disc he had ons w my roommate 24 years ago while we were broken up.lots of discoveries lately and he is irritable. I am dying inside and he wants for me to get over it happened long ago. Hugs for you.


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks "nota doormat"

I'm sure everyone is right and the last 10 yrs should be questionable. Especially with not confessing about the 1st 3. The reason I said he's been faithful the last 10 years is because I had found emails 10 years ago. About the last 2 OW.
1 online and one EA who was in the US. We were living in another country at the time and I was suicidal for a couple of weeks and honestly i think he worried i might do somethung stupid. I had tried to as a teenager. I think he was worried if I learned of the others it might be too much. Who knows. Could just be because he's a coward. I get sick of trying to figure it out anyway.

He made me go to work with him everyday for months. With no family, friends or support, I did the Hysterical bonding and he completely devoted himself to me and our marriage. It took 2 yrs. but we just seemed to get emotionally closer then we had ever been before. Cleared up years of anger and resentment on both parts, stemming from years of very poor communication. 

I so appreciate everyone thoughts and input so much. At this point in time I don't feel like I can make any major decisions one way or the other and am concentrating on myself and getting in a better place for me.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello "Broken 30",



broken30 said:


> Thanks "nota doormat"
> 
> I'm sure everyone is right and the last 10 yrs should be questionable. Especially with not confessing about the 1st 3. The reason I said he's been faithful the last 10 years is because I had found emails 10 years ago. About the last 2 OW.
> 1 online and one EA who was in the US. We were living in another country at the time and *I was suicidal for a couple of weeks and honestly i think he worried i might do somethung stupid. I had tried to as a teenager. I think he was worried if I learned of the others it might be too much.* Who knows. Could just be because he's a coward. I get sick of trying to figure it out anyway.
> ...


I just re-read my last post to you and I sounded a bit aggressive in some parts. I'm sorry if those words did offend you. When a person tells one too many lies, those lies become the truth, and the real truth becomes what….? Pinch yourself the next time he says something to justify his reasons for cheating on you. From your words he seems to be showing guilt and remorse through devoting himself to you, but where are the spoken words of guilt and remorse to you. But as you say, 30 years is a long time YOU’VE invested into your marriage, just make sure you are in control. Taking some “ME” time for you is an excellent step forward for you, happiness comes from within first, discover yours!


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

I didn't take it has harsh at all and thank you for taking the time to post. It's nothing I haven't already thought of or felt myself.

Also, please know that even though I mentioned the suicidal thoughts, I could never do that to my kids.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

broken30 said:


> I didn't take it has harsh at all and thank you for taking the time to post. It's nothing I haven't already thought of or felt myself.
> 
> Also, please know that even though I mentioned the suicidal thoughts, I could never do that to my kids.


Hi Broken, 

How are you? I won't mention the "S" word above, but good to know you're still in control of YOU! Has hubby shown any remorse or guilt yet? _I know, I know, I can probably guess that answer already. But I had to ask..._


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

Thank you FlyingThePhoenix for asking.

You know, I read about all of the stages in dealing with this. I seem to switch back and forth crying to rage, to numb.

We talked tonight and I do believe he's sorry. But remorse, no. I question sometimes if he is even capable of it. When all this started, i told him what i needed several times. He washed my car, did laundry, cleaned house, etc.. Everything but what I'd asked. I even showed him this forum which I felt could be a big help in realizing what i'm going through and perhaps reading the wayward forum, hearing what real remorse is but it's like it just didn't sink in. 

Now it seems to be sinking in and all those things I needed? I don't need or want them now. I don't seem to want anything from him. I'm not sure if I'm in self protection mode from all the TT , another stage, done or what at this point.

My Dr. prescribed something for the rage which is totally out of character for me.....

Just taking a day at a time.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

broken30 said:


> Thank you FlyingThePhoenix for asking.
> 
> *(1) *You know, I read about all of the stages in dealing with this. I seem to switch back and forth crying to rage, to numb.
> 
> ...


*(1)* But the fact you can feel those emotions is a great indicator you are capable of coming to terms with what your husband has done and turn those emotions into positive actions when you need to. Some people never get to the rage part so have no idea what to do next, but except their situation as is and live with it. You are not one of those people.

*(2)* Are you sure that's not some kind of remorse? He may not be able to tell you in so many words of his remorse, but his actions towards you should/maybe show you his version of remorse. However for your piece of mind you should encourage him to speak about it, if he can't or won't, then yes no real remorse.

You showed him this forum, he said nothing! That speaks a lot for him..WOW!!!

*(3)* Just remember he forced you to think more independently and he's to blame for this NEW YOU, he's seeing NOW. He can't handle your new found confidence in yourself. That's got to hurt on some level for him.

*(4)* HOLD THE PHONE! There's a "Rage pill" to control rage, well, what are you waiting for, spill it, what's it's name. I know a few people who need to take the "Rage pill" like now.......

*(5) *Well said! One day at a time.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Broken, I don't think he is sorry, I think he does not want to lose his cake-eating life. 

In my experience, serial cheaters don't just stop cheating, especially if they are allowed to get away with it. 

It's very hard to start over after 30 years but I have yet to read on this forum that anyone who did start over were sorry they did.

Good luck to you and remember NONE of his behavior is your fault.


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## WaitForIt... (Jan 20, 2013)

I was led to this post today and needed it at a weak moment. Married almost 22 years, learned 10 years ago of numerous indiscretions. Was trickle truthed for years, blamed for some of his infidelities and when I needed to talk, got anger and told to let it go. The past is the past and he claims he'd been faithful since his "confessions". 


After years of being dismissed, I had a revenge ONS almost 2 years ago. Worst thing I ever could have done. He kicked me out and we were separated for 3 months. Tried reconciliation. Decided to work on our communication and relationship. Less than a month after going back, I found out about his trip to an Asian massage parlor shortly after my ONS. Questioned him, he hit the roof. 

I've spent the last 16 months being an open book, laying all my issues with him, myself and our relationship on the table. Open and honest. He stone walled big time. Refused to speak, refused counseling together. It killed our relationship. I couldn't bear to be intimate anymore. 

 Two weeks ago, I left him. Woke this morning from a nightmare, came to TAM. I was weak and missing him. Now I'm not. Thank you for this post. I'm not alone, none of us are. I won't be going back. I'm finding myself and I owe it to every one of you. No more tears!! Sorry for the thread jack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

WaitForIt... said:


> I was led to this post today and needed it at a weak moment. Married almost 22 years, learned 10 years ago of numerous indiscretions. Was trickle truthed for years, blamed for some of his infidelities and when I needed to talk, got anger and told to let it go. The past is the past and he claims he'd been faithful since his "confessions".
> 
> 
> After years of being dismissed, I had a revenge ONS almost 2 years ago. Worst thing I ever could have done. He kicked me out and we were separated for 3 months. Tried reconciliation. Decided to work on our communication and relationship. Less than a month after going back, I found out about his trip to an Asian massage parlor shortly after my ONS. Questioned him, he hit the roof.
> ...


Start your own thread we can be here for you as well.


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## broken30 (Apr 9, 2013)

Again...thanks to all for your support.

FlyingThePhoenix,

I'd like to especially thank you for all your replies. I find comfort in your posts as they are all direct, honest and sensitive at the same time.

I believe he does have remorse and internalized it. I guess it's just not enough for me. Maybe I need to see him show it outwardly......just how miserable I his actions have made me....what he's taken from me and replaced with scars.

I didn't mean to make it sound as though he blew off looking at the forum but....I wanted him to engage and communicate as well. He spent most of yesterday working on his 1st post and will submit it
this evening. It's hard to cram 30 years history into one post. He is always willing to talk and said last night that he feels great remorse but doesn't know how to show it. Perhaps the forum can give him a clue.

I've since moved into the guest room. (Only because he's the one who has to get up and go to work.) I'm realizing I've had a lot of anger issues with sleeping in the same room. He can go right to sleep while I lay there awake until usually 4-5 am and p***ed off that he has no problem sleeping. 

Me and my pooch are sleeping well now.


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## FlyingThePhoenix (Apr 11, 2013)

broken30 said:


> Again...thanks to all for your support.
> 
> FlyingThePhoenix,
> 
> ...


Hello Broken,

*(1)* WOW! Speechless, gob-smacked etc. etc. etc. There's a almighty BIG SMILE ON FACE RIGHT NOW!!!! Oh Broken, I think you've broken me now......

*(2)* Now those are deep words of anger coming from you. You need to express those feelings of yours. If your not already doing this, then may I recommend you start a journal and write a sentence, or paragraph each day and review it weekly. You'll see patterns and pictures appear from your own words of where you are now and what you need to do next.

*(3)* WOW! He's actually going to post here, fantastic! Is he going to post on your thread or create a new one. You better warn him, he'll get sage advise but he'll also get grilled by every tamer that posts to his posts, for what he has done to you. If he understands this and still wants to post, you'll see this as one step towards showing you REAL remorse. Also if he still can't express himself to you verbally, then get him to do (2) above as well and request he read it to you. We all have a inner voice that allows to think and express our thoughts through words like I'm doing right now, or by connecting our brains to our mouths. Your husband I don't think knows how to connect his brain to his mouth, so remains silent about this remorse, his only way to show you is his actions and as you've said that's not enough.

*(4) * Follow step (2) to express your anger, make your journal your outlet and if you want make him read it. As for sleeping, for me, I drink hot chocolate every night, like right now before I need my sleep. Try it and see if that works for you, but please don't take those sleeping type pills I've seen on TV/magazine adds. 

*(5)* This may be rude but's it's a joke, okay, and it's your words anyway, I'm just going to play with them a little. _Ready..._ 
Does you husband know you're sleeping with another fella. I mean really, your husband's not jealous at all, strange man. I guess he can't handle the competition.


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