# need (very belated) advice after my wife cheated



## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

This is a fairly long read. I have cut out tremendous amounts just to keep the size down. I would very much appreciate any advice from anyone willing to read through this.

My wife (R) and I have been married for about 6.5 years. It is the second marriage for both of us. Over the years, our marriage has fallen into a bit of a rut, but I thought things were comfortable. My wife has been very busy running her growing company, and we recently (little over a year ago) purchased a home which has drastically reduced both our savings and any extra money we had to spend on ourselves.

About 8 months ago my wife got involved in a sports car club online forum. She has always been very into cars, and she has a nice sports car which she refers to as her mid-life crisis (we are both in our 40s). Originally on the forum nobody knew she was female, and she was happy with that. Later, after she was more known and accepted in the group she let people know she was female and posted a few pictures. This being a car forum, it is almost entirely peopled by men. My wife immediately received more attention just by being an attractive woman who knows a great deal about cars. Over time many of her posts on the forum became more and more flirty and risqué, and at one point she posted photos of herself in a bikini.

Some members of the forum who live in our general area occasionally get together to do “fun runs” where they take their cars up into the mountains and turn them loose. My wife began to participate in the fun runs with the other guys and got to know them more personally. I have participated in only one of the fun runs because I have 3 kids from my previous marriage, and I spend one day each weekend with them. R does not get along well with my kids, so she generally has that day to herself, and that is the day she goes on the fun runs.

Apparently after the runs, R stopped for drinks with one of the guys from the group (call him M) and they started to talk and get to know one another. After a couple of weeks an EA started up which at some point became physical. I was aware and concerned about my wife’s growing attention to (and from) the forum, but she assured me it was just for fun, and I believed her. I had some suspicions, and she was making more and more excuses for the amount of time she was away, but I thought I was just being jealous. R really enjoyed the runs and the forum, and I did not want to make a big fuss over something which was adding such a nice spark to her life with what I thought were just my own insecurities.

One morning, as my wife was preparing to take an overnight business trip, my wife got a call out of the blue which she played off as a call from one of the people who work for her. When I checked the logs on her phone (something I had never done before) I found that she had deleted the incoming call. I asked her about it and she first tried to play it off as a glitch. I would not accept that, and my wife eventually admitted to having an EA with M, but she denied there was anything physical going on. I asked her for a complete accounting of what was going on, but she would not tell me anything. She kept insisting that she needed to leave for her trip. It would take almost 4 hours to drive to her destination, and she was concerned that she would get there after dark and be lost and/or vulnerable. After trying for almost an hour to get her to open up to me, I finally told my wife that she needed to cut off contact with M. I was going out and I thought giving her room to call M without my being there was a good thing to do – how wrong I was. When I got back from my errands R was gone. I was going nuts trying to get a handle on what had happened to my life so suddenly. My imagination was running amok, and I could not calm down. After going quietly nuts for quite a few hours, I texted R and asked her to promise me that she had not seen M that day. I got no response. After another hour passed I finally called R and was surprised to find she was in her car. It was now well after dark, and she was still 1 hour away from her destination. When I pressed she told me that after talking to me she went to see M. They spent 2.5+ hours together talking. She said that she needed to talk things out with him because she was so confused about her own thoughts and feelings. I was beyond shocked, and very, very hurt. R would not talk to me about what was going on, I was going nuts, I was hurting very badly, and R chose to spend time with M for consolation, all the while lying to me about her need to leave, etc. R said she would call me back when she reached her hotel because she did not want to talk while driving.

When R did call me back (what seemed like days later), it was more of the same. She was confused and upset, she was sorry she hurt me. She wondered what in our marriage caused her to step out. She finally needed to concentrate on the job she was there to do, and we hung up with me more confused than ever. I expected her to feel some shame or guilt, but, other than being “sorry to have hurt me”, she showed neither. I demanded “a full and detailed accounting” of what had gone on before I would consider anything else like counseling.

The next few days were bizarre. R returned home and we tried to have a normal life. R wanted to schedule counseling, but I refused unless/until she told me the truth of what had happened. I did not want to get the information doled out in little bits in front of a counselor. By the next weekend, I was to the point of not being able to function and confronted R with a list of questions. I showed her the list, and she agreed to answer. Among other things, R admitted the affair was physical, it had been going on for 6 weeks, and she had broken it off with M.

R had seen a counselor without me. R said she had felt dead in the marriage for some time. She felt that I was not the “leader’ she thought she had married. She did not think I could change, and when I asked her about helping and maybe changing some herself she shot back that she did not want to change. It seemed we were doomed to break up. Bizarrely, this gave me the first peace that I had had all week. If things were going that way I could accept it and move ahead without having to go crazy trying to figure out how to deal with the emotional issues swirling all around.

Over the next few days I thought more and more about what R had said and what our married life had been like, and I found that I more and more disagreed with her analysis. We had been happy. We could be happy. I still loved her. Surprisingly, I felt that I could forgive her (not that she ever asked for any forgiveness). I wanted to see if reconciliation was an option.

On Friday night I sat down and spoke with R about this. I told her my thoughts. I told R that I was making myself very vulnerable by opening up to her like this, and asked her to let me know directly if she disagreed. I felt rejected and hurt, and did want to put myself out there just to be rejected all over again. I felt that R had been holdingme at arm length, and would not tell me where her feelings truly lay. If she was not willing to consider looking to reconcile, I could deal with that, but she needed to let me know. R agreed to consider trying to reconcile, but was still unsure if there was any hope. She had booked a hotel for the following evening just to get away and think without the clash of emotions which we were both feeling at home. I too felt the confusion from living together with all the current stresses and emotions, and I understood her desire to take some time to think things through.

It turns out R lied to me yet again (on many levels). After that talk on Friday, R went and spent the entire weekend with M. She never even checked into her hotel, but instead spent the night at M’s place. After I had opened myself up, R had stabbed me right in the heart. This pain was far worse even than finding out about the affair. She lied bout having broken things off with M, she lied about cutting off all contact with M, she lied about getting away to clear her head and think, she lied about what she was doing, and she did all this the morning after I had just opened myself up to her.

I found out that R had not checked into her room (she hadn’t told me where she was staying, but I found out). I was hoping beyond hope there was some explanation, but I knew what it would be. When R returned home on Sunday night, I asked her about her time away. Initially she played it off. As I continued asking more probing questions, she must have realized she was caught. She admitted that she had spent the night (and both days) with M.

While I expected this, I was unprepared for my emotions. I was far beyond distraught. I was hurt like I had never been hurt before. This betrayal was so brazen. Did she hate me so much, or did she just not care about me and my feeling at all?. I asked R to leave. I told her I never wanted to see her again. I called her names. I wanted her to hurt like I was hurting. She started to tell me how she had just had too much to drink on Saturday and could not drive back to her hotel, but I cut her off. Actions had spoken already far louder than any words. Then, sadly, she left. Probably to be with M, but I don’t really know.

After calming down, I tried to think of what I should do. I needed help which is when I (very belatedly) found this forum. I would still like to reconcile with R, but only if her heart is in it. I did tell R this. She was angry. She was upset over all the awful things I said to her on Sunday. She doesn’t think _she_ can forgive _me_! She has never said why she did it. She has never apologized or said she did anything wrong. She wants me to make amends to her.

So, finally, I am looking very belatedly for any advice on how I should proceed. Maybe I am a fool, and there is no hope, but it is worth me acting to fool for a while longer to be sure. I do not know where R is staying, and she won’t tell me what her feelings are toward me or M other than to say that “M is not the guy”. At least for now she runs her business out of our home (I have agreed to be out between 8:30 and 6:30 every weekday). I cannot afford the home without money from R. After all that has happened I do not even know how to approach R. I do not want to seem like some whining person being led only by their emotions, but I don’t want to come across as cold and emotionally detached thinking only of financial and logistical arrangements while planning out how to split with R forever.


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## MyDog8em (Apr 5, 2010)

First of all, please allow me to tell you how truly sorry I am that this is happening to you. I feel your pain, honestly, even tho I have never experienced anything like you say I can, however imagine the pain and hurt you are going thru. I don't want to give you the wrong advice and I don't want to seem disrespectful to you or your wife, but I will tell you what I would do should I ever be put in a situation like this...

I strongly feel once a cheater, always a cheater. No matter how much they say "I've stopped all contact,". Cheaters lie, are deceitful and most of the time care about nothing and no one but themselves. Should this happen to me, I would probably never, ever be able to trust her again, ever. I don't think I would even ever be able to reconcile. I don't believe in "D" (I don't even like to say/type that word), but I would immediately seek legal advice and begin drawing up "D" papers. If you do this, one or two things may happen: 1) she will 'wake up' and realize what shes about to lose (you sound like a very decent person) or 2) she will be fine with it and proceed with the action you are taking. This is a really tough decision on your part, especially that it seems from what you say that she may not want to give up on "M". However, before you take such a drastic chance, 'you' may want to try and work things out more. See if you can get her to open up more than she has. someway, somehow.

I'm sorry if I was not much help, I just wanted to say what I would do if put in that place. I'm not suggesting you do that, but at this point it would seem highly considerable. Best of luck to you and I hope things turn out well for you and yours.


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## Chiggity (Mar 26, 2010)

Going through something similar myself. I've taken a slightly more aggressive approach though (To the opinion of one other on this forum, too passive an approach) but nonetheless my experience may help.

In my situation (the read is about as long as yours , see "Hurt, recovering") when confronted, my wife admitted to the fundamentals, then eventually admitted to the most damning and damaging facts.

I was hurt, I didn't call her names, but I wanted to. The OM was living with us, and I felt we were living a lie right from the get-go.

I took the liberty of being very proactive myself. I removed the OM from our lives the best I could. Kicked him out, told her that if there is any chance of recovery, she needed to cut him off entirely.

It comes down to this: After all the pain and selfishness is brought to air, you can't keep your spouse AND your lover. It just doesn't work that way. Every time will be a reminder, a temptation, and there will never be any chance to rebuild. Because every time she caves and communicates with him, she destroys the recovery process and resets the ticker to Zero.

To recover she needs to never see him again, and you need to be firm and set an ultimatum.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You'll have to tell her that she has to agree to never see this guy again, or else you'll just have to sell the house and split your assets, unfortunately.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm sorry you are going through this and I feel your pain, it's a slow process of getting all the facts and every part of the story hits you hard, I remember all the pain I also felt at first, I went through all the emotions that you are feeling.......
I handled it this way, I tried to stay calm and I told him if he wanted to go and have a new life with the OW that he was free to go but he would have to be the one to leave the house and his life as he knew it.....he agreed because in the beginning he was sure she was who he wanted.....Along with giving him the freedom to go I also made him understand that I loved him and that I was never out of love with him and that I wanted to work things out with him because I truly believed he was a good man and that he just seemed lost for the moment.....
we even went as far as signing a separation agreement, so all he left to do was move out......
All of a sudden it didn't seem so much fun having an affair once the word was out and our children knew the whole story. 
he made every excuse in the book why he couldn't find a place of his own......I was patient with him knowing if he was under my roof he wasn't with her.....
He has now ask me to re-consider and think about giving him another chance to prove to me he can be the man/husband he can be.
I think just take it slow and make sure she understands how important she and your marriage are to you and that you take responsibilty for your part in the marriage and that you will do whatever it takes to make the marriage work, you two should go to see someone and talk things through.
When you act in anger it's never what you really want. as you know now.....
good luck


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

Thank you to those who have replied.

I had previously told R to break of all contact with M. She assured me she had about a week before she spent the weekend with him. Now she is staying with him (I believe -- she won't tell me where she is staying) because she claims that I have kicked her out. I have asked her to come back, but she has not. How can I exclude M in that situation?

One of the difficult things I am dealing with here is that she shows no remorse or guilt (other than to say she is sorry to have hurt me). She looks at me and says that I need to change and I need to make ammends. It seems like she is playing control games here. Rather than own up to what is going on, she focuses on what she sees as my issues. She seems to honestly believe that by reacting badly (calling her names and asking to her leave) when she disclosed that the affair was ongoing after she promised me it was over, that I have treated her as bad as, if not worse, than she has treated me.

How can I get past that? Am I deluding myself by thinking she has done me a far more severe wrong? BTW, in case there is a question here, I have _never_ caused her harm in any physical way.

MyDog -- you may be right. Right now I cannot see how I can ever trust her again. Prior to all of this she has always been very honest with me (painfully so at times). Now I question and analyze anything she says.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

This sort of sounds like what happened to a family member of mine, but only you can say if it's true or not.

This is the story from 20 years ago:

Very pretty, husband was a engineer made decent money, she stayed at home and raised two kids...always wanted more. Husband paid for some dental work perfect smile, paid for some breast augmentation, suddenly she was smoking hot at 30. Started her own business with husbands money.....and because she was now smoking hot and always ultra charismatic add in location it took off. Suddenly the husband wasn't good enough this happened over a course of 2 years where her income eclipsed her husbands 2 fold. Deep down she always wanted more the social life, the affluence, a different life than 2 kids, 2 cars, a dog, in sububia.

She routinely had affairs with very "studly" "affluent" men and they finally divorced. She always wanted more deep down and her husband just wanted a family and a comfortable lifestyle.

She went on to live with a Mayor now ex Mayor in a huge house, bigtime connections, and all of the perks that has in the social scene. She mellowed out as the years went on, but that is what she wanted they are still together to this day.

Your wife sounds like she wants more from you and from life..... what do you think?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She is a liar and she is a cheating skank. Why do you want to stay married. Your love is not enough. Put it this way. You can love HER, and she can disrespect you. Does that sound like a marriage worth having?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> I have asked her to come back, but she has not. How can I exclude M in that situation?


 You sit down with your phone, and you call all of your wife's family members, her best friends, your pastor, and anyone else who is important to her. You tell them that she is having an affair. You ask them for help, saying that if she could realize that people aren't just going to accept her cheating on you and replacing you with another guy, it will be a huge wakeup call and she might rethink the crazy path she's gone down. 

If you have it, you also get in touch with this guy's wife, family and friends, and tell them the same thing. You might want to do a search on his people's numbers before you sit down.

You also get online and contact all her car buddies and tell THEM that they have started an affair. That takes away that club as a safe haven for them.

The point is to shine a big bright light on their affair and expose it for the slimy nastiness that it is. Once it is out in the open, she will have to choose to continue doing something she knows her family/friends don't approve of, or stop it and come back home.

THAT is how you get him out of the picture.


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## MyDog8em (Apr 5, 2010)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> You sit down with your phone, and you call all of your wife's family members, her best friends, your pastor, and anyone else who is important to her. You tell them that she is having an affair. You ask them for help, saying that if she could realize that people aren't just going to accept her cheating on you and replacing you with another guy, it will be a huge wakeup call and she might rethink the crazy path she's gone down.
> 
> If you have it, you also get in touch with this guy's wife, family and friends, and tell them the same thing. You might want to do a search on his people's numbers before you sit down.
> 
> ...


The more I read your posts the more I think you are a very vindictive vengeful person what do you think? A you punch me I'm gonna punch, kick, and stab you back. One of those people that argues with the store manager over a "misprint" saying you must honor this it's in "writing".....

I guess we are just vastly different people, but when I get hurt I just move on. You don't like me, you hurt me, you lied to me, if I can't find a way to forgive/forget, well maybe you and I just shouldn't be "whatever we were/are?"

You believe calling everyone she knows and saying "Hey, she's cheating on me!! You have to talk to her!!" then "Calling the man and doing the same!" WOW, that sounds like true love to me......she'll easily get over that. Airing the dirtly laundry to everybody and everyone.......great!

Assuming there isn't more to the story that the OP isn't telling if she really is that "far gone" I would start divorce proceedings. Coralling someone back with guilt and practically blackmail isn't love to me!


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

exposure is a must. You shine a light on it. And then reality streams in. If she wakes up, great. Then you can decide on whether you can work through it. Personally.......dump her.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Well, I disagree unless you truly feel like she/he is in some sort of trance. If a divorce doesn't do it or moving out you think dragging him/her through the mud will? Is that taking the high road being a better person than the cheater?

I'm all about if you love someone why would you try to hurt them or cause them pain? I've played the get even game when I was in my early 20's and it's no fun much better to take the high road of "I love you, but I'm moving on" everyone is different though..


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Its an addiction, but an addiction to the chemicals that she generates being around the OM.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I disagree with that too. I think some people who are "serial" cheat on and in every relationship or mulitple partners the Duchovny types may have a "addiction". 

I do not think the person who cheats once in 10 years or once in 20years is even remotely the same and I still believe in taking the high road.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> The more I read your posts the more I think you are a very vindictive vengeful person what do you think? A you punch me I'm gonna punch, kick, and stab you back. One of those people that argues with the store manager over a "misprint" saying you must honor this it's in "writing".....
> 
> I guess we are just vastly different people, but when I get hurt I just move on. You don't like me, you hurt me, you lied to me, if I can't find a way to forgive/forget, well maybe you and I just shouldn't be "whatever we were/are?"
> 
> ...


 You can think what you want, but I speak out of knowledge of experience, of advising dozens of betrayed spouses over at marriagebuilders.com to do just that - expose the affair - and watching the affairs crumble. In at least half the cases, if not 2/3, the wayward spouse ended the affair, had a talk with God, and came back to the marriage in humility.

So tell me...do you think being NICER to your wayward spouse will jog their senses, make them smack their head and say 'Wow! You're right! I've been terrible to you!'?

Waywards are ADDICTED to their affair. Once they get into it, all they care about is their next fix, their next text, their next rush of adrenaline at sneaking a kiss in the coffee room. They no longer care about their betrayed spouse, because they have rewritten history in their MINDS so that it's their spouse's fault - they HAD to have an affair to get away from their horrible marriage.

You don't logic with an addict. You DO cut off their supply so that they go through withdrawal, and start to see the REAL life around them, not the hormone-induced euphoria they felt when cheating.

You don't tell an addict to just 'stop.' They can't. That's why it's up to you to be the 'bad guy' for awhile and take their drug away. Will they be mad at you? Of course. But if they come clean, they will thank you for saving them.

Your marriage can survive your spouse's anger. It can't survive a third person.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> You can think what you want, but I speak out of knowledge of experience, of advising dozens of betrayed spouses over at marriagebuilders.com to do just that - expose the affair - and watching the affairs crumble. In at least half the cases, if not 2/3, the wayward spouse ended the affair, had a talk with God, and came back to the marriage in humility.
> 
> So tell me...do you think being NICER to your wayward spouse will jog their senses, make them smack their head and say 'Wow! You're right! I've been terrible to you!'?
> 
> ...


Two different ways of going about it I guess. You don't think moving out or being served with divorce papers is enough? Often it is in this case it may not be she seems ready and willing to leave and it looks like she wants "more" out of life not just a fling. You are assuming "christianity" is playing a part at all which would theoretically change the gameplan.......but that's a different debate altogether.

The tactic of "airing" the business to every person in sight seems awfully "cultic" and "cruel" to me. Why not do it with everything? Late payments, yelling, not helping, not enough sex, not enough drive, poor work ethic, that way you can "out" all of their faults and make the perfect spouse.

I know people that go to churches that operate this way. You miss church they call you, miss a meeting they call you, a person is in "sin" it's all over the leadership, so yeah I bet often people do stop the affair after they feel like everyone hates them, but if the root isn't dealt with I wonder how many are truly happy after 1,2,3,5, or 10 years?

Like I said a big difference between a person who cheats once versus a serial cheater, imo, and that too is a different debate.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> Well, I disagree unless you truly feel like she/he is in some sort of trance. If a divorce doesn't do it or moving out you think dragging him/her through the mud will? Is that taking the high road being a better person than the cheater?
> 
> I'm all about if you love someone why would you try to hurt them or cause them pain? I've played the get even game when I was in my early 20's and it's no fun much better to take the high road of "I love you, but I'm moving on" everyone is different though..


I am directly quoting "OhGeesh" in this reply but my response is to Alpha-s . First, I've directed Tanelornpete to take a look over here as I believe you and he would understand each other quite well. But since he can't get here right this minute, I want to nip OhGeesh right in the bud. 

The idea of exposure is not vengeance, nor is it "dragging their name through the mud". Their choices and decisions about how to behave, seeking intimate gratification physically and/or emotionally outside their marriage, is what is dragging their name through the mud. You have fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book!

May I give you an example?

In real life I am illegally removing money from my employer's bank deposit everyday. I am the bookkeeper so I can manipulate the figures and hide it. I have access to the cash register PC so I can adjust it so that the totals seem to match. My spouse suspects I'm doing this. Before doing or saying anything, my spouse investigates and gathers some evidence until he/she is satisfied I actually *am* doing it. My spouse speaks to me alone, says "I know you're doing this and I have evidence, so I'm going to give you a chance to tell the truth and offer to pay them back. I will not work a second job to pay off your theft--you can experience that consequence--but coming clean now will save you considerable embarrassment." Being a thief whose pride is too large, I refuse and tell him "How DARE you invade my privacy and snoop on me!" "How DARE you threaten to drag my name through the mud!" Now, OhGeesh--would my spouse be dragging my name through the mud if he/she told my boss after giving me the chance to come clean? OR would my spouse be revealing the truth and alerting my boss to potential risk and harm? Is it loving for my spouse to allow me to steal, knowing that I'm doing it? Or do they have a duty to inform? 

How is that different from the spouse who's partner is having an affair? Do they not have a duty to let the employer know that their resources are being used in a way to make them vulnerable to a sexual harassment lawsuit? How about let them know that productivity is down because business time is being used for an unwanted sexual contact? Does the spouse have a duty to let other family members know that THEIR LIVES may be forever changed because the partner is not only choosing to hurt themselves but also the spouse, their children, the grandparents, the aunts and uncles and cousins, AND all their friends? Should not the pastor in their church know that there are troubles--very serious spiritual troubles which he may be able to help them with and DEFINITELY will be able to pray for them about? And doesn't the Other Person's spouse have the right to know that their marriage may be in jeopardy? It's sad to have to tell the OP's spouse that your own partner is seducing their spouse...but they have a right to know so they can move to save their own marriage, or make their own fully-informed decisions!! 

See, exposure is not vindictive "you cheated on me so I'm tattletale-ing on you" childishness. Exposure is the proper way to give others the opportunity to step up and really be a true friend or family member and help the disloyal spouse return to the marriage. Not all people will step-up (some may have even been complicit and helped hide the affair), but they won't for sure if they don't know! Parents have the right to help their children through a rough patch in the children's marriage...and to be informed they are at risk to losing their grandchildren! Sisters and brothers may need to offer their sibling solace, comfort, encouragement to keep on trying, hugs...and they won't for sure if they don't know about it! So exposure is about informing those who will be or may be affected by this affair, and giving them the TRUTH of what is really happening and no longer being willing to cover it up, pretending it's not happening, or turning the other way. 

OhGeesh specifically asked: _"If a divorce doesn't do it or moving out you think dragging him/her through the mud will? Is that taking the high road being a better person than the cheater?_" I would say that divorces take some time to occur--usually at least 90 days and most more than a year--so doing nothing for a year is really not a time-effective way of ending an affair. Moving out really only gives them freedom to continue to the affair! The most efficient way to stop an affair that hasn't gone too very far yet is to a) CONFRONT them with the fact you know its an affair and have some "evidence in a court of law" and directly ask them to stop point blank (the goal here to save them from as much embarrassment as possible). b) DISCLOSE to one very vital authority person to whom your partner would likely listen, such as a pastor, parent or employer, and you and that one person present once more that this affair is wrong and ask them point blank to stop (the goal here to save them some embarrassment other than this one wise person knowing) c) EXPOSE to every pro-marriage person who's likely to be affected by the affair--usually this list is parents on both sides, siblings, friends of both spouses, co-workers of both spouses, employers of both spouses (the goal here is to garner the support of those who might help disloyal see that an affair is wrong and garner the support of those who can help the loyal spouse be patient, stick it out, and survive the pain). The loyal spouse's employer needs to know why their productivity slacks off, they cry at work, or they need all those days off! And yeah this is taking the high road because unlike the cheater, the one who is fighting for the marriage is exposing to people for the express cause of saving their family and honoring the vow to love "for better or worse." It is taking the high road to live the truth and not be afraid of showing the truth, even if it is rather ugly. It is taking the high road because a way back is being offered and a road to forgiveness. This shows both family and kids that people don't just back out on their commitments, that you think of others not just selfishly of your own "happiness", and that when they make a really bad mistake even then there can be forgiveness. Now if that is not the high road I don't know what is!


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

Again thanks to all the replies. There is much to think about here.

First off, Initfortheduration, it may sound preachy, but R is still my wife and I do not appreciate her being called a skank. You do make a good point that the hard truth of loving her and being disrespected does not make a marriage worth having. I can act the fool for only so long, but I think I will stick it out a while longer to be sure first before sacrificing my marriage. If the marriage fails it will matter little if I was a fool for a few extra days/weeks (so long as my emotional being can handle those extra days/weeks, which is no certain matter).

OhGeesh, your story about the woman who left her engineer husband sounds close to the mark. I am generally considered successful -- I make a decent six-figure salary, am the director of my department, and am, I believe, respected by my peers and subordinates. I have been mostly focused on my children (ages 13, 17, and 19) and home life. I know R would like more focused long range and personal goals (like moving to a higher ranking position), and I have underestimated how much stake she puts in that.

Finally all the advice about exposing the affair is very difficult to judge. My initial feeling was toward the view OhGeesh expressed -- that outing the affair would seem vindictive and drive R away for sure and forever. R is a very hard headed person who prides herself on her independence and judgment. She does not take advice from friends or family (who all live 2000 miles away and do not have much contact with her). Outing the affair would bring shame on R, but with that would come a great deal of anger and a sense of betrayal. What outcome would I get from this? It sounds like a big gamble, and I really do not understand the odds. 

Is there any way someone can help me better understand how exposing the affair would more likely help than hurt in this case?

I really do very much appreciate the advice. I just feel like I need to be careful. It feels very much like this will be my last chance with R, and I do not want make my last step one that I do not fully understand.


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

I should add that this is almost certainly the only affair R has had during our marriage. Her first marriage ended when she had an affair after almost the same length of time. I do not know that this qualifies her a a serial cheater, but it does show a bad pattern.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I am directly quoting "OhGeesh" in this reply but my response is to Alpha-s . First, I've directed Tanelornpete to take a look over here as I believe you and he would understand each other quite well. But since he can't get here right this minute, I want to nip OhGeesh right in the bud.
> 
> The idea of exposure is not vengeance, nor is it "dragging their name through the mud". Their choices and decisions about how to behave, seeking intimate gratification physically and/or emotionally outside their marriage, is what is dragging their name through the mud. You have fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book!
> I'll disagree my issue is you can't lump affairs together and use the same rinse and repeat fix for all. There are way too many scenarios and the posts here are making way too many assumptions kids, family, practicing christians, etc.
> ...


You and others seem more focused on stopping the affair which is paramount if you want them back and if they want to stay, but again every situation is different. I do agree with this plan to Confront!! Talk to your spouse it should be pretty clear what their intentions are after a few conversations! Disclose, I can see that 1-2 close friends or family that's understandable and MAY make a difference. Expose hands down vehemently disagree with this in all but the closest family's!!!Have you ever been coerced? Felt forced into doing something by family or close friends? Honestly? It is a very overwhelming feeling and is the reason why I'm so against the "outing" and let the troops attack the now labelled cheater without "them" knowing the whole story it's much better that information be kept to a select few.

In closing I'll say it again I disagree with lumping all affairs together and I disagree with telling everyone about the affair in hopes to "coax" the person back into marriage. A few choice people, but ultimately it's you and the spouse! Do you want your spouse to want to be with you or feel forced and obligated to be with you?


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Offtopic:
Affaircare and Turnera: I can easily play the Christian mindset to fixing affairs too.

God first, then spouse, then children, then family......so if two people are brought together in the "church" and are true Christians holding to true christian values how does a affair even happen!! The amount of sinful choices that have to be made is extremely long it makes you wonder how that person could pray at all.

In situations like that there may be a church family that would know and those relationships held to a different standard. Where the vows of marriage are not only to the spouse, but truly to God. Not only is the promise to the spouse being broken repeatedly as the affair is in it's infancy the promise to God is being broken as well.

Remembering what Jesus did for your sins on the Cross and then realizing it's "your sin" he is forgiving even infidelity is sobering. A person seeing themself at the foot of the Cross broken by their sin is a powerful sight, but I can tell you horror stories about that too. Do you want your spouse to choose "you" again or be forced, coerced, guilted out, obligated, to be with you?

I could go on and on and we could quote scripture too, but like I said above what if the people aren't christians or practicing which most aren't. The God equations doesn't work as well. That's a debate for a different time I guess.


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

> I disagree with telling everyone about the affair in hopes to "coax" the person back into marriage.


I think you miss the point. The "outing" is not necessarily to "coax" the person back into the marriage but to end the affair. ONLY once the affair has been ended can any attempt to reconcile the marriage begin. Whether the marriage thrives or ends it is done outside the cloud of the affair.


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

After a little more thought, I guess it depends on how you see the wayward spouse.

If you see them as a POS and not worth your time, dump em and move on (I think this is your take)

If you see them as someone whom you still love and care about, you try to "fix" the situation that lead to the affair. (many of the rest of us). The first step is to end the affair.

The affair is like an addiction. Would you write your brother/sister off if they were hooked on cocaine? I wouldn't, I would make every attempt to help them. If in the end they keep using, I have done my best and they will have to live with the devastation that they leave behind.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> Two different ways of going about it I guess. You don't think moving out or being served with divorce papers is enough? Often it is in this case it may not be she seems ready and willing to leave and it looks like she wants "more" out of life not just a fling. You are assuming "christianity" is playing a part at all which would theoretically change the gameplan.......but that's a different debate altogether.
> 
> The tactic of "airing" the business to every person in sight seems awfully "cultic" and "cruel" to me. Why not do it with everything? Late payments, yelling, not helping, not enough sex, not enough drive, poor work ethic, that way you can "out" all of their faults and make the perfect spouse.
> 
> ...


Huh? Where did Christianity come from? Never entered MY answer, that's for sure. If you're talking about calling the pastor, that would be because if they have one, he/she is the person who might know them more than anyone and with whom they have a connection and would listen to their advice. If they had some friend who served that purpose, it's the same thing.

The purpose for exposing has NOTHING to do with vengeance or anger. In fact it is to be done with complete calmness and logic. The sole purpose is to show the two people stuck in the fog of the addiction that it is a FANTASY that their family and friends will not ACCEPT. 

Once people end up in an affair, they have literally brainwashed themselves to believe it's 'magical' and 'better than my marriage ever was.' Of course it is - it doesn't include changing diapers or paying taxes. IT IS FANTASY.

Exposure points out to the two people that this fantasy will NOT replace the years of marriage- and family-building they have invested in their real marriage.

It is a wakeup call, nothing more.

And once it's done, the betrayed spouse just waits to see if the two people care enough about what their family/friends think to wake up and realize they are living in a FANTASY. If, when they realize their parents won't welcome this putz into their home on Thanksgiving Day, they start to question what they are doing.

That is what exposure is. 

And of all the cases I've seen it used in, nearly all of them ended up with the wayward spouse 'waking up' and ending the affair. Because it's a very effective wakeup call to make them realize they are CHEATING and HURTING PEOPLE. No different than an intervention for a drug addict.

That is not mean. That is fighting to save that person from themselves. And hopefully lessen the pain for everyone else around them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's the thing about 'outing' dirty laundry to your family and friends. _They are your family and friends._ They are the only people on this earth to whom you can turn when you have a problem. They are the only people who know you well enough to be able to forgive your mistakes. They are the only people who will welcome you back after you ADMIT your mistakes. Therefore, they are the only people you SHOULD expose to, because whatever they do with the knowledge is done with your best interests at heart. Because they love you.

(Except in the case of a workplace affair - then the boss is liable for lawsuits, and needs to know to protect his business.)

Will the wayward spouse be mad at you for letting her parents know she did wrong? ABSOLUTELY. 

Tell me, in what other way could a wayward possibly GET IT, the damage they are causing, if they don't see it in the face of their mother, hear it in the voice of their brother or best friend? What ONE thing on earth is more powerful at this point than the adrenaline rush she's getting from sneaking around for her affair? _Her most important people's opinion of her._

Sometimes, I've seen a child's questions do it. But nothing else.

For a person to get past an affair, they have to SEE the damage, ACCEPT their responsibility for it, and ASK forgiveness. 

What happens when you hurt a friend somehow? Do you pretend it didn't happen and thereafter have a crappy friendship? Or do you go to them, admit what you did, say you're sorry, and hug? That is all exposure is - getting the person to see, accept, and ask forgiveness. Once they do that, the other people - because they love her - will forgive her, and they can all move forward in a closer bond than before. Because of her humility. 

It does work. Is it guaranteed to work? Of course not. But I'd rather trust the word of Dr. Harley from marriagebuilders.com, who has counseled _tens of thousands_ of couples in the last 30 years, and who has developed this plan based on _30 years of research_ on what works and what doesn't. You don't have to trust me saying it. Go to his website; read his books. It's all there, in plain logic.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Turnera, we disagree nothing more to say. In some situations that approach may work fine and be called for. To assume it is the right solution for ALL affairs is flawed.

Affair is one of those words that carries alot of weight and alters a persons belief profoundly that is the problem. In the classic situation of good great housewife get's cheated on by big bad professional husband of 20 years with 2 kids at home......your way may fit the bill. He may be delusioned, he needs a wake up call, and if Confront, Disclose, don't work maybe Expose would?? 

For a wife who has a emotional affair with a man because her husband is a porn addict and a drunk it is not, imo. 

Because the word "implies" so much just like "He is on drugs" "He hits me" "Foreclosure" "Gambling problem" these are words/phrases that change the way you think of someone for a long time. The informed often don't know the whole story and it can be ruthlessly unfair to the exposed. 

Like I said previously why stop at a affair? The same logic could be used for everything porn, drinking, mismanagement, gambling, you name it you could tell the family and friends about this type of behavior too and your spouse would get "labelled" the same way and "talked" too "looked" down upon and they would change that behavior too.

We'll agree to disagree!! I hope that you are able to experience judgement that is questionable and then maybe you will understand my point. Once you have been in the situation of being maybe not false accused, but definitely blown way out of proportion and judged by your loved ones because someone couldn't keep their mouth shut then you'll see how unfair this "outing" can be in certain situations. How much time and effort goes into explaining and damage control because of a "word" without the whole story being told.

Good luck and I guess on a positive note married it's awesome, date night tonight, and no affairs for either one of us yet see ya


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## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

I think you are correct in that there may be situations where the wayward one is just an ass. I would classify your first example as possibly that (not enough detail). The big bad professional probably does not care, he can get whoever he wants and run over whoever he wants.

Everything you mention, except mismanagement, can be an addiction, as is an affair most of the time. Even in your second example you call the husband an addict. Do you not support interventions in cases of drug or alcohol addiction? These "outings" are only that. You are also assuming the wayward one is going to tell the truth. Not that the betrayed one is going to be 100% accurate either. In my experience and from what I have read, the wayward one exaggerates making their spouse look much worse than they actually are. The fish was 1lb not 50lbs.

Anyway, as you say we'll agree to disagree.


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## OneMarriedGuy (Apr 5, 2010)

turnera said:


> You sit down with your phone, and you call all of your wife's family members, her best friends, your pastor, and anyone else who is important to her. You tell them that she is having an affair. You ask them for help, saying that if she could realize that people aren't just going to accept her cheating on you and replacing you with another guy, it will be a huge wakeup call and she might rethink the crazy path she's gone down.
> 
> If you have it, you also get in touch with this guy's wife, family and friends, and tell them the same thing. You might want to do a search on his people's numbers before you sit down.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but this sounds like really misguided to me. I may be wrong but in the end her family is her family and they WILL stick with her. Her club ... it is already a safe haven for them ... most probably already know or suspect.

It simply sounds like you want him to run around going "she's bad, she's bad" . I really can't imagine it helping, if anything just the opposite.

At any rate - it may only take one to end a marriage, but it takes two to make it work. Unless she is will to go to counseling with you and stop this affair, unfortunately I see little hope.

I'm sorry for you pain and the only thing I can say (even though I know it will mean little to nothing at this point) is that it will pass in time.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

For 'Ohgeesh' (which, by the way, is a direct violation of Exodus 20:7) - pointing that out because of the continual references to Christianity.

You are the only person who has somehow tried to inject 'christianity' into this discussion, and only to vent some sort inner turmoil over perceptions you have inserted into your version of the religion. How is this, in any way, designed to help Alpha-s? You are so right, this is stuff of another thread - and should be taken there.

If you have a proven method or approach to ending an affair and rebuilding a marriage, feel free to offer it. The purpose of these discussions are to offer options to people who are hurting in one way or another - and want solutions. Our approach does work - rationally, effectively and realistically.

The purpose of exposure - which Ohgeesh is so vehemently against - is not designed for the end which Ohgeesh is so upset about. In other words, the objection Ohgeesh offers is against smoke. It does not address the issue, nor the problem.

As both Affaircare and Turnera pointed out, _it is designed to be a wakeup call._ Affaircare pointed out the Christian approach to it: go to the person first, then to a respected authority figure who can then talk to the Disloyal Spouse alongside the Loyal Spouse, and then, if that fails, then to other people who have a positive influence on the Disloyal spouse. 

Turnera points out why it is important. And also the utilitarian proof.

Intelligence is required when exposing the affair. You _don't_ just randomly run around telling everyone - which is a form of gossip. Hence, this objection is a fallacy. You do NOT expose it to people who could be a physical danger to the Disloyal Spouse, and so on. Ohgeesh has simply jumped over the entire rational reason for why this particular step is so important and into specific unlikely situations where troubles could occur if the wrong person where told of the affair. He then uses this to argue that this step must be avoided. That has all the honesty and genuineness of someone who argues that you must never go to a doctor because once in a while a doctor makes a wrong diagnosis.

Again, this is one step in an entire process of restoring a marriage. It is not the first step. It is, in essence, the third, in a long process. And once it is finished, you move on to another step.

Regarding more Ohgeesh material:



> You and others seem more focused on stopping the affair which is paramount if you want them back and if they want to stay, but again every situation is different.


Stopping the affair is necessary before ANY work can be done on the marriage. Until the affair is over, until it's residual hangover has dissipated, at least one, if not both spouses, are too involved in the anger, hurt, fantasy, and the actual high of the ordeal to honestly engage in recovery. Return maybe. Recovery, no. 

While every situation may _seem_ to be different, the basic concept of an affair is not. Moreover, affairs happen because of specifics in the marriage itself that can be identified and worked on. In different words - affairs happen because a perceived need is met by a person to whom the Disloyal Spouse is NOT married. That need is either perceived to be, or is actually missing in the marriage relationship. While there may be some random exceptions to the situation - nothing comes to mind - by far, this is so common that one can use a standard approach to any affair and expect similar results.

In the end, the recovery of the marriage depends upon a change of the relationship within the marriage. Note that I said 'recovery' not 'return.' This is another area where Ohgeesh tends to either simply misunderstand what is being said, or (as I suspect) is deliberately doing so based upon some agenda. A person _can_ be brought back to a marriage by means of 'guilt' or 'coaxing' or 'force' or any other number of reason. But this does not mean that they will stay. _Staying_ depends on fixing the trouble that created the environment in which the affair begin in the first place.

I'll say that again, for a specific purpose: Recovery in a marriage depends upon fixing the trouble that created the environment in which the affair began in the first place. Had that/those troubles not existed, it is very likely that the affair would never have happened. I *am* lumping affairs together here: when things seem better off in the arms of another person - that 'better off' is an indicator of something lacking 'back home.' 

Return to the marriage and recovery are not identical. Moreover, I advise that recovery is not enough. That just brings back the same old problems that were 'solved' by infidelity. A new marriage - growth into a better one is the solution.

Ohgeesh asked why 'christians' would offer Christian advice to unbelievers. With regard to marriage - or pretty much any other situation, this is quite simple. A marriage is first and foremost a commitment. It is a contractual agreement between two people. Regardless of anything else, that is the starting point. It does not matter if you are a Christian, or not - if you have any sense of honesty or honor at all (and I am not arguing about how these traits are derived) then you will understand the importance of keeping your word. Holding to a promise makes you appear to be reliable to others. It lets others trust you. And the more often you do this, the more trustworthy and honest you appear - which, by most people's standards, is a good thing. If you keep your word, even when things get rough, it expands upon this impression others have.

That means that whether you are a Christian or not, the idea is the same: keeping your word shows that you are trustworthy and honorable. 

Rationally, the emotion of love follows - is the result of - how we act toward someone else. The initial actions are the actual definition of love - the emotion is a response. How you act toward a person is the initialization of emotive love, due to acts of love. In a marriage, you pledge that the main thrust of your loving actions will be aimed deliberately to the person you promised to stay with - until you died. These actions are the building blocks of further trust, etc.

So...how is it different for Christians or unbelievers? I see no difference. The actions, the promises, etc., are the same. Christians may have a different understanding of WHY these actions and promised work the way they do - but that does not change the fact that they work the way they do. Only the explanations change.

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Now playing: Chuck Mangione - He Was a Friend of Mine
via FoxyTunes


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## Chiggity (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm sure that all this long-winded arguing is helping this poor man.
:/


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree with Chiggity. I request that all discussion from this point be addressed to Alpha specifically and if you'all want to, please let's start another thread to debate "To Expose or Not to Expose, That is the Question." 

I'm working on answering this question for Alpha: 



> Is there any way someone can help me better understand how exposing the affair would more likely help than hurt in this case.


...and yep--I'll keep it short! :lol:


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Tanelor, I'm not going through each line of that to argue my point. All affairs are different and must be treated as such! Basic principles are great, but application needs to precise like a scalpel not a axe. To say Exposing to "Both sides of the family, work, and the pastor" as someone previously said is ridiculous in many situations, I would say most situations.

I fully understand your point of the affair must stop isn't that a given, but not by any means neccessary as is pushed here.

Good luck to the OP.......real life isn't about ultimatums and lines in the sand. It's about love, bending but not breaking, and forgiveness. Again you already responded to my quick 
.02 of your situation keep the communication lines open and in the end... your successful and a professional! You can move on and many a "woman" would be lucky to have you!!





Good luck


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Chiggity said:


> I'm sure that all this long-winded arguing is helping this poor man.
> :/


I agree as well, Chiggity - which is why I tried to incorporate definitions and explanations that pertain to the thread in my 'long-winded' 'argument' - some things take a bit to explain - especially whenever there is a big misunderstanding about what was said in the first place. 

And - an argument is a sequence of statements leading to a specific conclusion. You can't really explain anything at all without actually using that method. You can state the conclusion of an argument - that is, make a single sentence post that simply says...

The affair should end...

...but it really is more useful - especially if someone asks 'why?' to offer the rest of the argument...so they can build a better understanding....

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Now playing: Dave Matthews Band - The Stone
via FoxyTunes


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Actually, the OP WAS asking why he should expose, and wanted further clarification on whether or why it would work. I was giving that clarification.

I should have taken the time to explain, like tanelorn and affaircare, that it is just one in a series of steps to take. As tanelorn points out, if you haven't stopped the affair, no amount of counseling, begging, pleasing, or asking will make a difference, because she's getting needs met by someone NOT her husband. She will never stop and look over at her husband and see if he will meet those needs, as long as someone else is doing it.


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

I did find the dialog/debate intersting and somewhat educational. The strongest point to my mind is that without M out and the affair ended, there is no hope to attempt reconciliation. I had hoped that might happen in other ways, but at this point the only way I see to end the affair (other than waiting it out) is to get help from people R _might_ listen to.

R will hardly even contact me at this these days. She does not answer my calls and does not respond to my email. I cannot continue like this. I plan to contact a couple of R's friends and her mom to see what pressures they can bring (if they will even act on my behalf). If R gets so pissed that we are ended, so be it. At this point it would be a relief.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Alpha-s said:


> R will hardly even contact me at this these days. She does not answer my calls and does not respond to my email. I cannot continue like this. I plan to contact a couple of R's friends and her mom to see what pressures they can bring (if they will even act on my behalf). If R gets so pissed that we are ended, so be it. At this point it would be a relief.


She might get angry - very true. I'd even hazard a guess that she WILL get angry. And claim you are hurting her, etc. That is natural - its how you deflect your feeling of embarrassment from yourself as the cause to....anyone else.

However - a question first...is she even living at home now at all? If not - do you know where she is? Either I did not get that from a post - or I missed it (I try to be very careful...)

As such the exposure step should be very small - only some people whom she regards as wise counsel.

After this step, you must move on to a totally different tact - one that takes some time. 

But may I backtrack a bit? 

There are several steps that customarily work in any affair situation. They work in sequence - they don't work as well out of order. So it's best to make sure you've covered one before advancing to the next.

Once you suspect some sort of infidelity, the first step is to gather evidence. For the most part this is for your benefit - to make sure your suspicions are not incorrect. It also helps with the next step:

Second step is to confront your spouse. This step is not designed to make your spouse DO anything (whether we like it or not, we cannot make anyone do anything unless we are a lot stronger physically, and we want to make them fall over, or something like that.) This step is to announce that you are aware of the affair, and that you have evidence that it is occurring. You make a formal request that your spouse stop the affair, cease all contact with the other person, and return to the marriage to begin work on recovery. It's simply a 'placarding' of the affair - the official notice that you intend to work on the marriage. 

If this does not get through to your spouse, and they intend to continue the affair, then you move to the next step - exposure. We've gone over this step in earlier posts.

If this does not get through to your spouse, you move on to the 'carrot and stick' step (Plan A on marriagebuilders.com.) In reality, this step should begin as soon as you begin to suspect anything at all - mainly because this step involves you being the person you should be in your marriage. This step covers a set amount of time (determine the time limit when you officially begin this step). It shouldn't be more than six months or so, and you may need to append your plans contingent on circumstances. During this time, learn all you can about love busters, emotional needs, love kindlers, your personality type, love languages, why affairs start, etc... In other words, go through a period of personal improvement. Two reasons. First, this helps you be a better - more responsive person - than you were. Even if you are great at it already, there is always room for improvement. Second reason: if things do continue to 'go south' you will leave a lasting impression upon your spouse about the kind of person she is losing. Especially if you need to progress to the next step:

This step is the 'consequences' stage - Plan B on marriagebuilders.com. Here, you remove yourself as much as possible from your wife's environment. You cut off all contact, etc. This is only done after a careful explanation of why you must do this, and the conditions upon which you are willing to re-establish contact. Then abide by that step - for the time you set up for yourself. Do not take this step lightly, nor as a form of punishment for your spouse. It is designed to protect you from losing all the love you have for her, and to let her see what exactly you were providing for her in your relationship - and (if you did Plan A correctly) to see what she could have if the affair were to end.

Others can fill you in more on details - step by step.

Basically, think of your marriage as a sick patient, in need of medical treatment. The things that built up the environment where the affair seemed necessary are symptoms of the illness. So is the affair. The marriage is sick and needs help. And you have found out about it and are working on recovery.

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Now playing: John Doan - The Hunter and the Hare
via FoxyTunes


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

Tanelornpete -- a brief summary of my situation:

I found out my wife was cheating almost a month ago. I confronted her - she initially denied it but eventually admitted the truth that she was having an affair with M. I asked that she stop the affair and she told me she had and, at my insistance, that she was cutting of all contact with M. There was never an admittance of wrongdoing on her part, she felt that problems in our marriage (pimarily from me) drove her to the affair.

About two weeks later later my wife spent the weekend with M while lying to me about it. I was aware of the lie and confronted her yet again. She initially tried to deny the affair. Again, she shows no remorse or guilt about the affair. At that point I lost my cool and told my wife that she should leave and that I never wanted to see her again. After initially arguing with me, my wife left and has not told me where she is staying. I assume she is with M, but she will not tell me. She has not stayed at home for over a week. Two days after the confrontation, I did ask my wife to return and apologized for my bad reaction, but she has not returned. She believes that my reaction was as bad as, or worse than, her act of cheating.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Alpha-s said:


> Tanelornpete -- a brief summary of my situation:
> 
> I found out my wife was cheating almost a month ago. I confronted her - she initially denied it but eventually admitted the truth that she was having an affair with M. I asked that she stop the affair and she told me she had and, at my insistance, that she was cutting of all contact with M. There was never an admittance of wrongdoing on her part, she felt that problems in our marriage (pimarily from me) drove her to the affair.
> 
> About two weeks later later my wife spent the weekend with M while lying to me about it. I was aware of the lie and confronted her yet again. She initially tried to deny the affair. Again, she shows no remorse or guilt about the affair. At that point I lost my cool and told my wife that she should leave and that I never wanted to see her again. After initially arguing with me, my wife left and has not told me where she is staying. I assume she is with M, but she will not tell me. She has not stayed at home for over a week. Two days after the confrontation, I did ask my wife to return and apologized for my bad reaction, but she has not returned. She believes that my reaction was as bad as, or worse than, her act of cheating.


In a situation like this it may be a time to Expose! Lack of contact, affair ongoing, no respect, I wish you the best keep us updated. I agree with Tanelor, Affaircare, and Turnera that Expose in you last option here especially if she is not on speaking terms with you....even though you are trying.


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## blueyes (Mar 25, 2010)

I agree with Ohgeesh, calling everyone they know for one thing makes u look weak and a whinner, also in my case I wish someone would have called his wife and told her, I would have done it but I figured he would get made. that plan might just backfire on u. Like he said do u really want her back if she constantly lies and has been having sex with another man. I wouldn't want her biack because she feels guilt and shame she might just do it again in a later date, sorry for your pain, I am writting this from the womens view, but I never lied, and never had sex with my ea. I wanted too though but they r right when they say all contact must end to save marriage. I haven't seen mine for 2 months, but I actually just seen him yesterday and it brings all the old feelings back, but I can't act on them. It will be hard on her and u. She has to make up her mind, sorry to say maybe she already has by not coming back. I say start legal papers and see if that wakes her up.


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## Alpha-s (Apr 5, 2010)

I had a long talk with R yesterday. It seemed to go fairly good (at first). She says that she knows M is not "the guy" for her. We talked about getting counseling and trying to reconcile. Then she dropped a bombshell. She would only work with me if she continued to see/date M!! She was trying to negotiate with me about staying together, and she still wants to see M (and other guys?). I told her that was out of the question. She would have to completely break it off with M before any reconciliation could be attempted. She tried offering "compromises" all of which included her still dating M. I reiterated that was out of the question. So, R has gone back to M (whom she now admits she has been living with). I'm sorry to say that I see no other open avenues.

I wonder if she only wanted to work with me to have a fall-back in case her relationship with M does not work out. Oh well, it doesn't matter now.

I appreciate all the support you have given on this forum. I will monitor in case there are others I can assist (not that I think I have much sage advice), or if there are any final words of wisdom I should hear.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you ever tell her family and his family what they are doing?


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## ppl (Apr 8, 2010)

you are acting out of weakness. she does not respect that. you are irritating her after she slaps you in the face and you say i love you come back. she even said you are not the leader i thought you were. move on. get over it. the only thing she will respect is that. ignore her. stop fawning over her, it will only destroy your self respect and any possible respect she has for you. act out of strength. she may wonder about her decision later but clearly you will be better off.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree: Cut her off financially, Bank accounts, credit cards. She needs to feel the consequences. The more you chase her, the less respect she will have for you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Love and forgiveness are wonderful things ... without a doubt.

You shouldn't be focusing on either at the moment.

Your wife chose to blatantly lie to your face - on multiple occasions.
She is having sex with another guy.
Instead of feeling guilt or remorse - she wants to cut a deal, in which you agree to continue letting her screw someone else.

I hope you _are_ offended by the language, but it shouldn't be anyone here posting that you find offensive. 

Time for a bit of self-respect. People get caught up in this notion of 'taking the high road' or not wanting to 'upset' the wayward spouse.

If you want results, and to have your wife re-engage you - then you cannot deal with her as she expects you to deal with her. Her knowledge of who you are, led her to choose an affair in the first place. You REALLY need to understand that.

No pleading, begging, crying, or cajoling. It's like blood in the water to a shark. She will simply take another bite out of you, swim off, and keep screwing M.

F*ck the high road. And f*ck her. You need a little anger and aggression in the mix. Honor, and nobility work in your favor when you are moving toward divorce - but to end the affair, and create the circumstances where reconciling may even be possible, using kid gloves, being nice and playing fair will only assure a protracted, long, slow, death of your marriage.

What the hell is going on with your kids while your wife is off carrying on with another guy?

Do _they_ know? If not, they should be the first people it gets exposed to, given their ages. If you don't. She will paint a picture that simply says 'dad and I grew apart.'. She will lie to them too. Expose it. Big. She gets angry? So what? That means you hit a nerve. It isn't about revenge. Those that think that this step is simply sour grapes are entitled to their opinion.

The sooner you take responsibility for your own independence and needs, and take concrete steps to dismantle and not enable her little fantasy, the better off you will both be, whether you reconcile or not.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

RWB said:


> As soon as I found out about my wife and her affairs, I shut it down. Phone, credit cards, joint accounts, retirement, you name it. I moved her to a friend's house the same night. She had been living in a fantasy for 6 years with multiple men. I called the kids (all grown 24, 22) and explained who Mom had become. I even offered to drive her to Atlanta to her former college boyfriend. If this was so important to lose me for him to feel young and free, I gave her an out. If it was so bad, she could leave. I basically outed her from my life, her former deceitful life. She saw in 24 hours what the "rewards" of her wicked ways were. No Husband, No Children, No Marriage, No Security, No Respect, No Peace or sense of Family. This may seem rather harsh but we had been married 30 years and I had been hit like a homeless person by a semi truck. I didn't want to play the script of the betrayed husband. I would not wait or play the role. I took a chance. Risky to say the least in her state of mind.
> 
> I am not saying this is the "best" way to deal with a spouse in an affair. I am saying that in the end there can only be ONE! I read here about giving time, winning them back, let it pass, etc... Yes this may be true. But in the end there can only be ONE.
> 
> You and Her.


There can only be one I agree.......just the means to a end are a little different. So, did it workout between you and your wife? Or no?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RWB, thank you for sharing that. I get so much resistance from betrayed spouses, when I advise striking hard at the affair like you did. The biggest fear is 'he/she'll be mad at me.' Uh, duh, they CHEATED. Who cares if they are mad?

In fact, they NEED to get mad so that the truth can come out. And they need to understand that the cheating will NOT be accepted, that the betrayed spouse has more self respect than to be a doormat.

It's the only way.


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