# Addressing question to the cheating husbands.....



## The Judge (Jun 21, 2011)

I am still trying to figure out what prompted my husband of 27 years to cheat on me. I figure the best way to get an answer since he can't give me a clear, definitive one is to ask some other man that cheated on his wife! Although I know each circumstance is difference, I want to know what goes on in your minds that allowed you to open the door to infidelity? 

My husband says he just started to feel like a "paycheck" at home and nothing more, so he went online and started chatting with some stranger.........things snowballed from there into a physical affair. 

I know the "how" and "when" of his affair, but I still can't grasp the "why".......


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Good question and you will probably get many different answers, but I'll try to sum mine up as simply as possible.
My wife and I drifted apart. I suspected an affair on her part three years prior. She talked her way out of it and we just continued getting further and further apart. We still loved each other and had a decent love life, but I didn't feel a "connection". I wasn't excited to see her. I never looked forward to spending the evening with her. We coexisted for years.
Her best friend was at our house a lot. They were like sisters. My wife used her as a sounding board for her side of our not connecting. He friend became my friend and we got close enough to the point that I began to confide in her about problems at home.
She was (unbeknownst to either my wife or me) looking for a man, since her husband had left her. She was very pretty, sexy and flirty. She began telling me what I wanted to hear as far as love and sex went. I felt that excitement again, the thrill of seeing someone of the opposite sex that "got" me and wanted to listen to me and have fun. We began an affair.
After about a month, I was so full of guilt that I confessed. My wife confessed to her affair as well, which she had for pretty much the same reasons that I did.
I dropped the OW, she dropped the OM, and we went to counseling and are now in love like school kids.
We both made horrible mistakes, but in the end, it worked out for the better. I have never been in love with my wife the way I am now. She feels the same way towards me and life is GREAT!!!!


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## code7600 (Mar 20, 2011)

Well, to my ultimate shame I slipped into an EA with a coworker. I sure should have known better . My first marriage ended when ex had an EA/PA with co-worker.
so,why? it was too easy on business trips. and I was weak. I started talking about marriage problems.. wife and I were roomates sleeping separately, and essentially
working two shifts to deal with two jobs and child care. Very bad to start telling others about your marital problems. To my current wifes infinite
credit she kept me . Took a while to rebuild trustl. Forgiven (I feel) but never forgotten....
-----
What we have here is a failure to communicate. The Captain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

emotional needs not being met + opportunity = the slippery slope.

the slope + norturing environment for escalation = dopamine

dopamine = rationalization + denial - inhibition = motivation

motivation + availablity = affair


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

For me, it was years of constant sexual rejection, lack of physical and emotional intimacy, and a lack of respect for my spouse. Eventually I got to a point where it felt my options were either get a divorce and rip the family apart that way, or try to have my needs met outside the marriage and hang in the marriage till the kids were old enough. 

Obviously, I did the stupid thing, and cheated. I really wish I hadn't done that, although I was "fortunate" enough that my wife never found out. In the end, we separated less than 4 months after I cheated. Sometimes I think that she at least suspected that I had cheated, if nothing else from the fact that she never asked me directly if there was someone else. I was the one that decided things were not repairable, and it was time to put an end to it. So basically, I cheated and then found myself in the same situation I was trying to avoid anyway.

POMS, one thing you don't have in your progression is the fact that if someone really wants to cheat, things like opportunity, nurturing environment, and availability are not really issues. If someone is in a relationship where they want to cheat, they can work around all that stuff and find someone. The best you could hope for in those cases is to catch them, preferably early, and either end the relationship or address the issues that make cheating seem like any kind of a reasonable solution.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

findinymyway is a WH and gives invaluable insight into the mind of the male WS.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

The Judge said:


> My husband says he just started to feel like a "paycheck" at home and nothing more, so he went online and started chatting with some stranger.........things snowballed from there into a physical affair.
> 
> I know the "how" and "when" of his affair, but I still can't grasp the "why".......


I'm not a cheating husband and truly not being snarky, but it sounds like the 'why' is because he started to feel like just a paycheck to you and nothing more. 

Now that may not be justifiable or reality based on how your marriage was, but it's apparently how he felt. That also does NOT make it your fault, btw... he chose to have his A.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

PBear said:


> POMS, one thing you don't have in your progression is the fact that if someone really wants to cheat, things like opportunity, nurturing environment, and availability are not really issues. If someone is in a relationship where they want to cheat, they can work around all that stuff and find someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> emotional needs not being met + opportunity = the slippery slope.
> 
> the slope + norturing environment for escalation = dopamine
> 
> ...



But, yeah if someone just plain wants to cheat they can skip all of the "normal" steps to breaking down the moral compass and doing it.....

I wanna cheat + I getta chance = affair. lol.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

feeling like a paycheck, feeling like a roommate, sexless marriage, constant rejection when attempting to initiate sex, pity sex that was unfulfilling, constant complaining, nothing was done well enough in her eyes, no affection, no intimacy, feelings of loneliness, wife won't go to counseling, etc. Those things all add up to a guy who is starved for affection. He knows he isn't getting it at home. He knows a sexless marriage isn't right or acceptable. But, all efforts to to fix the situation fail. He has kids in the home and believes it's important to keep the family together.

Someone pays him attention, shows interest in him. EA moves to PA.


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## The Judge (Jun 21, 2011)

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate your honesty. Never in a million years would I have thought I would be initiating a “survey” quite like this one!

I suppose I need to clarify that from my husband’s perspective, he said he “felt” like a paycheck…..from my standpoint, it wasn’t that way at all! If that is the case with husbands, why don’t you hear the “working wives” saying the same thing or the “stay-at-home wives” saying they feel like the maid/cook/laundress! I guess the differences in each person’s perception of what is going on in the marriage is exactly where the issues begin to creep in. One’s perception is one’s reality.
As txhunter54 so aptly put it, “feeling like a paycheck, feeling like a roommate, sexless marriage, constant rejection when attempting to initiate sex, pity sex that was unfulfilling, constant complaining, nothing was done well enough in her eyes, no affection, no intimacy, feelings of loneliness, wife won't go to counseling, etc.” All of these things are the pitfalls I will be sure to look out for in the future. My husband and I have reconciled and we are doing really well, but there are days when some stupid trigger will take me two steps backward and it is a struggle to keep the “mind movies” and lies that were told to me at bay; therefore, I come to this site to try to get answers.

What seems to be the common denominator from your responses is “lack of an emotional connection” with your wives and “general complacency” within the marriage. I guess I have been wrong all these years in assuming that generally men don’t really NEED to have “talks” and “one-on-one time” with their wives (other than sex, of course) What exactly do you want from your wives when you mention an emotional connection? And for that matter, what in your opinion, would keep your marriage from becoming complacent?


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

The Judge said:


> Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate your honesty. Never in a million years would I have thought I would be initiating a “survey” quite like this one!
> 
> I suppose I need to clarify that from my husband’s perspective, he said he “felt” like a paycheck…..from my standpoint, it wasn’t that way at all! If that is the case with husbands, why don’t you hear the “working wives” saying the same thing or the “stay-at-home wives” saying they feel like the maid/cook/laundress! I guess the differences in each person’s perception of what is going on in the marriage is exactly where the issues begin to creep in. One’s perception is one’s reality.
> As txhunter54 so aptly put it, “feeling like a paycheck, feeling like a roommate, sexless marriage, constant rejection when attempting to initiate sex, pity sex that was unfulfilling, constant complaining, nothing was done well enough in her eyes, no affection, no intimacy, feelings of loneliness, wife won't go to counseling, etc.” All of these things are the pitfalls I will be sure to look out for in the future. My husband and I have reconciled and we are doing really well, but there are days when some stupid trigger will take me two steps backward and it is a struggle to keep the “mind movies” and lies that were told to me at bay; therefore, I come to this site to try to get answers.
> ...


My H all but froze me out of his life. I didn't know who he worked with generally( including the fact that his coworker was coming on to him), and he kept many secrets about himself from me. He was a wham bam thank you ma'am kind of guy ( unusual right?), surprised by my lack of interest. His A partner just happened to be soooo sympathetic ( and half my age and hot) to his plight of a wife who didn't understand him. Her " sniveling p***Y" of a H didn't understand her either, poor darlings!. So of course it was all about the cold spouses who didn't provide emotional support for these two poor unfortunates. Of course neither one of us ogres were told that there was a serious problem. It's hard to work out a problem with someone when they pretend there isn't one, and follow up with avowals of love and contentment. There is never an acceptable "reason" for an A. People who choose this dishonest course of action always self justify, and rewrite their marital history.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

oaksthorne said:


> My H all but froze me out of his life. I didn't know who he worked with generally( including the fact that his coworker was coming on to him), and he kept many secrets about himself from me. He was a wham bam thank you ma'am kind of guy ( unusual right?), surprised by my lack of interest. His A partner just happened to be soooo sympathetic ( and half my age and hot) to his plight of a wife who didn't understand him. Her " sniveling p***Y" of a H didn't understand her either, poor darlings!. So of course it was all about the cold spouses who didn't provide emotional support for these two poor unfortunates. Of course neither one of us ogres were told that there was a serious problem. It's hard to work out a problem with someone when they pretend there isn't one, and follow up with avowals of love and contentment. There is never an acceptable "reason" for an A. People who choose this dishonest course of action always self justify, and rewrite their marital history.


Exactly! It's always interesting to me that the problems in the marriage are never important enough to talk about and therefore not that much of a problem yet when an affair is discovered, it is the SOLE reason the betrayer cheated. Blameshifting and rewriting marital history is all it is about.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I have no idea about everyone else's situation, but I suspect many of us beat our heads against a brick wall trying to make changes. In fact, I would offer back that it's just as likely the loyal spouse who rewrites history with "he never said anything was wrong" or "I had no idea he was unhappy".

In any case, it's the cheating spouse who made the decision to cheat ultimately, and there's clearly at least one other honorable decision that could have been made instead.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

PBear said:


> I have no idea about everyone else's situation, but I suspect many of us beat our heads against a brick wall trying to make changes. In fact, I would offer back that it's just as likely the loyal spouse who rewrites history with "he never said anything was wrong" or "I had no idea he was unhappy".
> 
> In any case, it's the cheating spouse who made the decision to cheat ultimately, and there's clearly at least one other honorable decision that could have been made instead.
> 
> ...


Nope, not in my case, all the time he was cheating on me, he was telling me " you couldn't drive me away with a stick". I felt like a mugging victim when I found her " I love you" e-mails. She was just too cute, young, hot and available, to pass up over something so trivial as marriage vows. It is cultural for men to be taught that their sexual gratification is a "need" and for their wives, it is an option. It is natural for women to become less interested in sex if it is one sided. When that happens, it is time to become a better lover, or at least say something about wanting more and better. It is not time to take some home wrecker up on her kind offer of a piece of a**.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

The Judge said:


> I guess I have been wrong all these years in assuming that generally men don’t really NEED to have “talks” and “one-on-one time” with their wives


You won't be the first.

Even us men will admit that old traditional stereotypes that men 'Should just get on with it', still has a level of expectation in society today.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Numb-badger said:


> You won't be the first.
> 
> Even us men will admit that old traditional stereotypes that men 'Should just get on with it', still has a level of expectation in society today.


That's true. I am 47 years old. It has been drilled into my head since I was a teenager to get ahead in life and take care of my family (financially). My generation was also taught that if you keep your wife happily materialistically and sexually, everything is fine.
WRONG!!!
A marriage is WORK. It should be taken more seriously than a profession.
Now, I am no longer trying to claw my way up the professional ladder at my family's expense. I make decent money, and promotions will come, but I'm not trying to force them.
Now, I wake up each morning and the first thought in my head is "I am so in love with my wife. What can I do today that will make her smile and/or make her life more enjoyable.".

That should be every married person's priority.


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## The Judge (Jun 21, 2011)

RWB said:


> However, what she didn't see or really understand during her affairs was that she created this environment with own actions. During this period of discontent prior to her first affair, SHE pulled away from me. She would rarely want to have sex and it was more pity sex than anything else. She would spend her weekends with her girlfriends shopping and eating out. On and on...
> 
> Do you think this behavior encouraged me to seek her out, fill the voids, become more loving and caring, exactly the opposite. And the cycle spiraled deeper and deeper towards the affair.
> 
> Interesting in her mind it was all my failure..



RWB ~ Well said..........in my opinion, that is exactly how I view the time that preceded my husband's affair and now in hindsight, how he acted during his affair. I have told him that he received from me exactly what he gave me in terms of affection, communication, intimacy, and so on. He wasn't being/acting like the man I married, so he caused me to react differently towards him. I feel like he pulled away from me and of course, his perception was that I was pulling away from him. It was such a vicious cycle that landed us where we all are today.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

RWB said:


> Judge,
> 
> One key element being is being left out of the f(x) = affair equation here...
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself. My wife created the environment that caused me to become suspicious in the first place. She was hanging out with the OM, her coworker, at our home when I wasn't there. She told me she did at the time too, which didn't keep the red flags from raising. So I accused her of cheating on me with him several times. She would put herself in situations that would eventually lead to cheating, which is what happened. 

We did nothing but argue over my lack of trust in her and me accusing her of being unfaithful, which turned out to be the case. She had slept with him and was doing some major gaslighting to keep it hidden. It was always just in my head, she would never do that to me, how dare I question her, I never trusted her, blah, blah, blah, lie, Lie, LIE. This went on for 6 years of me suspecting and her torturing me over every time I questioned her about it. There were multiple online EA's that she I confronted her about. She even said she had never heard of the term EA and that it was stupid. 

I have to admit that I tried to change things about myself to make her happy, I had no real confirmation of EA/PA until recently. All the changes were for nothing. I would never receive appreciation, acknowledgement, or reciprocation. So, I would slide right back into the way I was because I was discouraged. 

Eventually, I just decided that I wasn't going to try and change myself, for her, any longer. She had to make changes as well and she had to make changes before I was willing to budge again. 

When the PA came to light 30 days ago, I told her that she created all of this, because she had an affair, I pretty much knew she did, and she kept the lie for 6 years. I asked her if she was happy with the life she created for herself. She was the reason for all of my suspicions, mistrust, etc.. All because she was trying to hide her PA. She said that I had no trust in her before the actual affair took place. I told her that she had put herself into compromising situations that I knew were just going to lead to the A anyways and I was trying to keep an A from happening. It told her that it was obviously a futile effort.

TL;DR - She created her own prison and feelings of being unloved because she had an affair and was trying her best to keep it hidden.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Judge That is what I felt too. 28 yrs of marriage and he said I wasn't giving him attention. Ummm He moved out with no excuse, just said he couldn't stand being home. At that time he wasn't having an affair. Problem with his moving out was he came home to eat and wash clothes. Then when someone tryed to interact with him he disappeared. Teen boys lost respect, little one thought teens were his dads. And he wonders why the youngest has no connection to him. After 2 yrs half in half out, he found someone to listen and sooth his ego. Now he is over that and wants back what he gave up on. Problem is I'm getting tired of his demands to fix it, fix myself, everything is my fault. 
It's back to the drawing board again after 18 mths. Seems like every time he feels a bit of unattention he starts a fight to get attention.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You two got it exactly right.



RWB said:


> Judge,
> 
> One key element being is being left out of the f(x) = affair equation here...
> 
> ...





RestlessInGeorgia said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. My wife created the environment that caused me to become suspicious in the first place. She was hanging out with the OM, her coworker, at our home when I wasn't there. She told me she did at the time too, which didn't keep the red flags from raising. So I accused her of cheating on me with him several times. She would put herself in situations that would eventually lead to cheating, which is what happened.
> 
> We did nothing but argue over my lack of trust in her and me accusing her of being unfaithful, which turned out to be the case. She had slept with him and was doing some major gaslighting to keep it hidden. It was always just in my head, she would never do that to me, how dare I question her, I never trusted her, blah, blah, blah, lie, Lie, LIE. This went on for 6 years of me suspecting and her torturing me over every time I questioned her about it. There were multiple online EA's that she I confronted her about. She even said she had never heard of the term EA and that it was stupid.
> 
> ...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Keep in mind that the original question was what was in the cheater's mind that lead them to cheat. I know my last response was likely off topic with regards to that question... I don't think anyone here is trying to justify that what the cheater (myself) did was ok; I just originally intended to say how I felt when I did that, and what things were a factor. Whether I changed my mind after or learned something about myself after is beside the point.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

findingmyway said:


> Different folks, different motives. For me, I wanted more sex than my wife did. There was a thrill of the chase as well. It was never emotional for me, just extra sex and a bit of an ego boost I suppose. I never wanted to leave my wife or start a new life with someone else's wayward wife. Yes, I always targeted married women.
> 
> While many will say it can't be true, I always loved my wife and still do.
> 
> ...


How did your wife's ego fare when she found out you were betraying her?


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## afterthefact (Aug 29, 2011)

First let me THANK all those that are contributing to this thread and the person that started it! I'm finding it very helpful.



txhunter54 said:


> feeling like a paycheck, feeling like a roommate, sexless marriage, constant rejection when attempting to initiate sex, pity sex that was unfulfilling, constant complaining, nothing was done well enough in her eyes, no affection, no intimacy, feelings of loneliness, wife won't go to counseling, etc. Those things all add up to a guy who is starved for affection. He knows he isn't getting it at home. He knows a sexless marriage isn't right or acceptable. But, all efforts to to fix the situation fail. He has kids in the home and believes it's important to keep the family together.
> 
> Someone pays him attention, shows interest in him. EA moves to PA.


Minus the interest in counseling (my WS didn't see the point) and add to that that during that time you became verbally abusive and you'd sound exactly like my WS! 



RWB said:


> ...It amazes me how many times here the disloyal here still hold on to the "I banged my head against the wall" thinking and can not see or admit that they create the environment that they later describe as their reason.


Yup! Sounds just like my WS!!!

Is it sad that i'm finding comfort in this? I guess in a way it helps me understand... and in my case he felt like he was 'yelling at me to make me see/understand how he felt and what he wanted/needed'. and yes he did even say that he felt he 'was banging his head on the wall' trying to make me understand...That he was telling me for years that he felt like a paycheck (and all the other stuff above) and I wouldn't listen. My response, 'it's difficult to listen when you are being verbally abused! and do you really think yelling at me would encourage me to fill your needs!'

He now says he sees and understands that his 'approach' to telling me/communicating and his actions were creating and perpetuating the problem and not doing anything to help things. It took him/us 4 months (since D-Day) to get to this point! Is that a good sign? ie that he 'sees' that he created the environment that lead to his 'reasons' for the affair?

He says that he has no 'feelings' for OW. She provided the attention and excitement he needed but wanted from me. 

So txhunter54, my question to you and any other cheating husband is, in a situation like yours (with the reasons you gave - which seem to be common) *if since exposing the affair* (i caught my WS)* most if not all of the reasons you gave above have been worked out over countless painful yet i think productive conversations and actions with/by your spouse, what are the odds you'll cheat again? What would/could lead you cheat again?*

I hope i'm not hijacking!!! i apologize if i am! This sounded soooo much like what I've heard that i needed to ask my question at the end in the hopes I'd get some further insight.


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## cowgirl70 (Aug 10, 2011)

I keep hearing no sex, no sex, but why Doesn't she want sex. I have always been one to drop and roll whenever and wherever. I also initiated very often. Word of advice men, always get the pan warm before you put the meat in.. I am sure that is not always the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The Judge said:


> I guess I have been wrong all these years in assuming that generally men don’t really NEED to have “talks” and “one-on-one time” with their wives (other than sex, of course)


Yes, you have been wrong to think this.




> What exactly do you want from your wives when you mention an emotional connection? And for that matter, what in your opinion, would keep your marriage from becoming complacent?


I think it is the same things you want from your husband for an emotional connection.

I want to know I`m "special" to her and I want to be reminded in little ways often.

The way she can`t seem to resist grabbing my ass when I`m doing the dishes.
The quick little kisses in passing throughout the day.
The short but ever so sweet "I'm really missing you" texts when I`m at work and she`s at home.
The way she brings home my favorite munchies or little gifts to make me happy.
These things let me know she wants me and that I`m on her mind even when I`m not around.

I love sex with my wife but the good part is when the sex is over and it`s just her and I laying there in each others arms totally relaxed with no kids around, phones off, TV shut down.

That`s when she`s secure enough to really talk to me about the things that are important to her, the things that are troubling her, her, the things that make her happy, the things she dreams of.

I am the only person who ever gets to see this part of her and that is a very important "connection". That`s "intimacy".


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## cowgirl70 (Aug 10, 2011)

Wow, we used to have that and are working on getting there again. I hate when we are in those moments and my mind goes to the heart ache of his ONS. I try and brush it off because I don't want to ruin the good moments so, I keep my feelings to myself buck up and put a smile on. BuT, the days seem to get better and I try To be the best wife and partner I can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NicoleT43 (Aug 14, 2019)

Thank you for this thread I've found it extremely helpful.


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