# Was it cheating?



## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

My wife and I separated recently, on the understanding that we would be trying to work things out, not see other people and go to counselling. However, I have discovered that she has been sleeping with another man. While I respect her right to be happy and to live the life she wants, I don't understand why she wouldn't have the decency to say simply that the marriage was over and then move on to the other relationship. I am sure that this has been covered before by many people, but I am just so sad. Was it unreasonable of me to expect her to honour what we agreed at the time of separation, or does anything go once you move out? I am sorry if this seems very naive.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Seems like cheating to me. Unless she told you if we separate I will see other people until we finalize a divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

Thank you for replying. When she left she told me that she wanted to work it out, so I did not think that we were definitely headed for divorce. I specifically asked about seeing other people, and we agreed not to. I guess I have just been a chump. The problem now is that I feel completely inadequate compared to the OM.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She clearly is not "trying to work things out"

I presume the agreement to separate was openly discussed as her feelings for another person? Or was it some other issue. Because if it was some other issue then there was even more deception and counseling is an exercise in futility and kabuki theater.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Hang your head up high. You honored your vows. She cheated not you. Hopefully the OM turns out to be a dirt bag who sleeps with a married woman. When she comes running back to you remember the hurt and betrayal. It sucks now but you know you did the right thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

No, as far as I knew, it was problems to do with how we were interacting with each other. She never mentioned that she had feelings for another man. 

I again am sorry to sound so stupid (this is completely new territory to me), but why would counselling be futile in this situation? Is it simply because the marriage is clearly over?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Usually when people want to separate its because they are having an affair and they want to see if the relationship will work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

Richie 33, thank you for your moral support. I think the thing that really got to me was she told the OM that she felt her marriage was over before she told me. (This was in response to my question as to whether he knew that she was married, even if separated.)


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorry you are here.
You are still married so yes unfortunately she is cheating on you and by the sounds of it it's been going on for some time.
She is, what is known in the trade, as cake eating. 
She's keeping her options open.
So what's your plan?
My H did the same thing to me. He didn't tell me about the EA turned PA because he said he was afraid of losing me, confused, didn't know what he wanted.
So I eventually made his mind up for him. I let him go, told him to be happy, but I wanted out of the drama and the heartache. I did a partial 180 and started living my life.
Took him 3 weeks to realise it wasn't what he wanted, finished the A and was asking to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Counseling works when two people want to work things out. Sounds like your wife checked out. I would find out if OM is married. If he is get ahold of his wife. Don't make it easier for either one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

diwali 123, I think was probably having an EA before the separation, and it has now turned into a PA.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Thank you for replying. When she left she told me that she wanted to work it out, so I did not think that we were definitely headed for divorce. I specifically asked about seeing other people, and we agreed not to.* I guess I have just been a chump. The problem now is that I feel completely inadequate compared to the OM.*


Friend see the bold text? NONSENSE

You are inadequate because you expect honesty? You're a chump for expecting fidelity? Out of the three of you: Your wife, the other dude, and you, who do you think has integrity and honor? Who would you like your kids (if any) to respect and emulate? 

Now, if you had said "I let her spend time with another man to appease her and make her happy" THEN I would say "what a chump" 

Act with dignity - demand respect in marriage or divorce. There is no middle ground. Respect includes truthfulness. Why is she afraid of the truth? Does she think you'll physically abuse her? Does she think you are so emotionally weak you'll fall apart? 
OR is she just a selfish, devious, and deceitful person incapable of speaking simple truths? 

YOU have nothing to be ashamed about - SHE DOES. Let her know you are no chump. You see the truth and tell her you do.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

In her mind it might not be cheating since your separated.

It is cheating. She's showing you that she is not into you by sleeping with other men. It's highly disrespectful. You can not make her happy, only she herself can make her happy.

I'm very sorry your going through this. My ex h is a serial cheater. Except he cheated while we were together and saw nothing wrong with it. He always blamed me for his misery. I wouldn't doubt he still does 19 years later. 

I did meet a very decent man and we've been happily married for over 12 years. There are decent women who like the nice men. My husband is a very nice man type. Never in a million years would I disrespect or take advantage of him.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

Daisygirl 41, I have told her that she has clearly no respect for me or for our marriage, and that I wish her well for the future with her new partner.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

lambchops said:


> My wife and I separated recently, on the understanding that we would be trying to work things out, *not see other people* and go to counselling.


Not see other people means not see other people. 

It's cheating.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

lambchops said:


> Daisygirl 41, I have told her that she has clearly no respect for me or for our marriage, and that I wish her well for the future with her new partner.


How did she respond?
Does she seem 'happy' with her new life?
How much contact do you have?
Sorry for all the question!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Seems like cheating to me. Unless she told you if we separate I will see other people until we finalize a divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

The sad part of it is the OM might have been in the picture already.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

Walkonmars, I'minlovewithmyhubby:
Thank you very much for being supportive. I think part of the problem is I have been very weak in the past in terms of standing up to what is clearly unacceptable behaviour. But this really changed things. I am sure I contributed to the problems, but my view was we take a break, we get some breathing space, then we work it out together, with counselling. You live and learn, don't you?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I said counseling was futile because while she's having sex with someone else it is useless. It's like taking an alcoholic to AA with a bottle of hootch in the pocket. Totally useless. 

FIRST loose the hooch - then AA can be effective. Same principle.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> How did she respond?
> Does she seem 'happy' with her new life?
> How much contact do you have?
> Sorry for all the question!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She was very upset, she does not seem happy (but she does not seem to want to get back together), we have regular contact.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Don't blame yourself for this. It was her decision to cheat. 
It's good to reflect and look at how we can improve ourselves for the best and possibly look at the contributing factors, but she made the decision to cheat on you. That's on her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I said counseling was futile because while she's having sex with someone else it is useless. It's like taking an alcoholic to AA with a bottle of hootch in the pocket. Totally useless.
> 
> FIRST loose the hooch - then AA can be effective. Same principle.


Yes, my feeling would be that if she did decide that she wanted to go to counselling to work on things, then the relationship with the OM would have to stop. I have no idea whether that is something she would accept or not.

Thank you all for posting such helpful messages. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Your current marriage is over as you know it.

Learn to detach. Read up on the 180. 

Isolate and protect your finances. No joint bank accounts, credit cards or debts/loans. Write a new will. 

File the divorce paper. Serve her.

Further down the divorce path, when you feel your mind is clear and out of the fog of being betrayed, you can still decide to reconcile or not. Till then, keep things moving.

There's lots of time during the divorce process to get your emotions stabilized and your head cleared. When that happens, you'll have clarity of what your life can be.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Walkonmars, I'minlovewithmyhubby:
> Thank you very much for being supportive. I think part of the problem is I have been very weak in the past in terms of standing up to what is clearly unacceptable behaviour. But this really changed things. I am sure I contributed to the problems, but my view was we take a break, we get some breathing space, then we work it out together, with counselling. You live and learn, don't you?


Don't feel bad for trying to work on your marriage. You took vows and wanted to honor those vows. The problem is your W disrespect the marriage. Don't ask the OM anything because he is not important anyway. I am sorry you have to deal with this issues.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes MC would be pointless at this time. She is still in her A fog. 
She needs some tough live from you now!
You cannot 'nice' her out of the A. She needs to have a reality check.
Have you read up on the 180?
I'd suggest you read 'no more mr nice guy' too as you have mentioned that you might have been 'to soft, with her in the past!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lambchops said:


> She was very upset, she does not seem happy (but she does not seem to want to get back together), we have regular contact.


do you have kids? otherwise stop talking to her.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

aug said:


> Your current marriage is over as you know it.
> 
> Learn to detach. Read up on the 180.
> 
> ...


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

aug said:


> do you have kids? otherwise stop talking to her.


We do not have children. Why would not talking to her be helpful? She seems very keen to talk. I would have thought that talking would be a good thing.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lambchops said:


> We do not have children. Why would not talking to her be helpful? She seems very keen to talk. I would have thought that talking would be a good thing.


She keen to talk for the following possible reasons:
- to keep you as the backup plan
- to alleviate her guilt while she's pounding away with the other man (OM)
- to keep you as the father confessor


Stop talking to her allow you to:
- get use to life without her
- work on yourself (go to the gym, go socialize, do something you always wanted to do, etc)
- let her deal with her decision to cheat herself without getting you into her hell pit
- let her know you dont condone her behavior and decision
- detach and grow
- see there's still a whole world outside of her to experience


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

aug said:


> She keen to talk for the following possible reasons:
> - to keep you as the backup plan
> - to alleviate her guilt while she's pounding away with the other man (OM)
> - to keep you as the father confessor
> ...


Very sensible, thanks. But presumably meeting to discuss finances and practicalities is OK? I have no interest at all in hearing her excuses.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lambchops said:


> We do not have children. Why would not talking to her be helpful? She seems very keen to talk. I would have thought that talking would be a good thing.


Also, since she's clearly not into you now, hanging onto her seems so [fill in the blank yourself]


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lambchops said:


> Very sensible, thanks. But presumably meeting to discuss finances and practicalities is OK? I have no interest at all in hearing her excuses.


Protect your finances and assets first before discussing with her any remaining financial issues.

You do not want to give her a headstart and find yourself in a worse position.

If you over-protect yourself, you can always return it when either your lawyer or the court advise so.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Not talking to her more than absolutely necessary will help you emotionally detach from her. It is part of the process to heal yourself.

She has detached from you but for whatever reason she enjoys keeping you on the line. Probably as a Plan B just in case Plan A (Other Man) does not work out the way she thinks it will. She does not care that this causes you stress and pain.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Very sensible, thanks. But presumably meeting to discuss finances and practicalities is OK? *I have no interest at all in hearing her excuses.*


Good!

Tell her that while you love her and are open to the possibility of reconciliation you do not accept or condone her behavior. 

Make it clear that while she's with someone else there will be no daily or regular chats unless absolutely necessary and then only on your terms w regard to time, length, topics. Follow the advice from the other posters. In a year you'll be in a better place with or without your wife. Be brave, act boldly.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

aug, TDSC60:
Thanks, finances all sorted. I think part of the problem is that she seems very upset by it all and I am interpreting this as regret about the situation, rather than regret that she got caught. Plus it's hard to suddenly realise that the person you thought was great is actually not all that nice after all.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Good!
> 
> Tell her that while you love her and are open to the possibility of reconciliation you do not accept or condone her behavior.
> 
> Make it clear that while she's with someone else there will be no daily or regular chats unless absolutely necessary and then only on your terms w regard to time, length, topics. Follow the advice from the other posters. In a year you'll be in a better place with or without your wife. Be brave, act boldly.


We are not meeting all that regularly, or talking that often. Maybe about once a week. And I am making sure I have other places to go afterwards so the meeting is time-limited.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

lambchops said:


> aug, TDSC60:
> Thanks, finances all sorted. I think part of the problem is that she seems very upset by it all and I am interpreting this as regret about the situation, rather than regret that she got caught. Plus it's hard to suddenly realise that the person you thought was great is actually not all that nice after all.


Correction - she is showing regret for HER situation. The situation that she created. She is not showing remorse or empathy for the pain that she has caused you. She really could care less about the situation that you find yourself in.

I am betting that she was the one who really pushed for a separation. Before you say it was a mutual decision - think back - was she the one who kinda lead the conversations in that direction?

This was her plan all along. Separate so she would be free to chase the OM. 

Do not be her back up plan.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I am betting that she was the one who really pushed for a separation. Before you say it was a mutual decision - think back - was she the one who kinda lead the conversations in that direction?
> 
> This was her plan all along. Separate so she would be free to chase the OM.
> 
> Do not be her back up plan.


Yes, this has become clear to me now. It really is hard, isn't it? You try to do your best and be loyal, but I suppose sometimes you just have to realise that you were not meant to be with the person you thought was always going to be there for you.

And if I'm honest with myself (how hard *that* is!) I think she has not really wanted to be married to me for a long time. I just didn't want to face up to it.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

You are married until you divorce. It does not matter what the agreement is. If you sleep with someone other than your spouse while married, it's cheating. You aren't divorced yet so she cheated.

You will never know if she had this planned and just separated so she could consummate her relationship with him.

It sounds like a moot point though. Cover your butt. I'm so sorry to hear it went this way for you.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

One other thing that really bloody annoyed me: she had the gall to say that she felt "she wasn't the right person for me". How dare she presume to tell me what is and isn't right for me? Surely that is my decision to make. What she needs to worry about is whether I am right for her. And clearly she thinks I am not.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

lambchops said:


> Yes, this has become clear to me now. It really is hard, isn't it? You try to do your best and be loyal, but I suppose sometimes you just have to realise that you were not meant to be with the person you thought was always going to be there for you.
> 
> And if I'm honest with myself (how hard *that* is!) I think she has not really wanted to be married to me for a long time. I just didn't want to face up to it.


It is one of the hardest things you'll have to do, to admit the truth that the woman you loved, cherished, supported and protected can toss you aside like yesterdays's garbage.

You will be better off without her and the drama she is addicted to.

Stay strong. You must grieve the death of your marriage for a while and that is normal. But a better life awaits.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> "she wasn't the right person for me"


Ego protection bull**** to mare more palatable (for herself) the obvious: she's a liar and a cheater. She had the control of the time, she did it coldly, calculated, she made excuses, she got rid of you. She had no shame until she got busted. The fact you refuse to hear any excuses leave her alone with her sh1t to deal with.
Only getting a glance to the phone bill you will see how long OM was in the picture way before any "issues of the marriage", "inadecuacy for you", "unhappiness", "ILYBIANILWY", "trial separation conversation" started to arise.

So banal, so cliche. She was cake eating for a while until she got too attached to OM and wanted to make it less stressful. It was likely also PA before the separation, as a matter of fact I'm sure the first time she mentioned it was the very moment it become physical. She just wanted it easier.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Ego protection bull**** to mare more palatable (for herself) the obvious: she's a liar and a cheater. She had the control of the time, she did it coldly, calculated, she made excuses, she got rid of you. She had no shame until she got busted. The fact you refuse to hear any excuses leave her alone with her sh1t to deal with.
> Only getting a glance to the phone bill you will see how long OM was in the picture way before any "issues of the marriage", "inadecuacy for you", "unhappiness", "ILYBIANILWY", "trial separation conversation" started to arise.
> 
> So banal, so cliche. She was cake eating for a while until she got too attached to OM and wanted to make it less stressful. It was likely also PA before the separation, as a matter of fact I'm sure the first time she mentioned it was the very moment it become physical. She just wanted it easier.


Apparently she had been having doubts for years (!) but tried to deal with it herself. What a brave soul. Not. Whenever there was talk of what wasn't working, it was always me being moody, me being disappointed, etc. Talk about projection.

Anyway, I'm off to the pub. Thanks to you all for your advice, folks. I'll check in again later. If I'm not too drunk.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Apparently she had been having doubts for years (!) but tried to deal with it herself. What a brave soul. Not. Whenever there was talk of what wasn't working, it was always me being moody, me being disappointed, etc. Talk about projection.
> 
> Anyway, I'm off to the pub. Thanks to you all for your advice, folks. I'll check in again later. If I'm not too drunk.


Sounds like she was not being honest with you. She should not have lied to you. Just keep your head up .


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Read two books,

Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay

And No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover

It may not help with the current relationship but your wife will likely notice the difference in any interactions. I've only been running the MAP for a short while and already seeing Jedi Mind Trick sex levels and dropped nearly 2 stone and starting to improve fitness.

They will definitely help you in future relationships.


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## lambchops (Sep 29, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Read two books,
> 
> Married Mans Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay
> 
> ...


Back from pub. Thanks, very helpful. Yes, the focus I guess must be on the future and not the past. It is clear she has zero respect. I have already lost about a stone (probably through worry), but a bit more might not hurt. My biggest worry about the future is the fact that my self-confidence has been decimated, and I have little idea how to rebuild it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Very sensible, thanks. But presumably meeting to discuss finances and practicalities is OK? I have no interest at all in hearing her excuses.


Do NOT talk with her without witnesses, solicitors/lawyers, etc.

She is no longer your friend. 

She should now be considered as a potential enemy and treated accordingly.

If you do need to talk with her without witnesses, consider using a hidden recorder to protect yourself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lambchops said:


> Back from pub. Thanks, very helpful. Yes, the focus I guess must be on the future and not the past. It is clear she has zero respect. I have already lost about a stone (probably through worry), but a bit more might not hurt. My biggest worry about the future is the fact that my self-confidence has been decimated, and I have little idea how to rebuild it.


Exercise, self-hypnosis CDs, take up a hobby. Just three ideas to help.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

Exercise is the best option IMO. Getting built while working off frustration and hurt is awesome! Not to mention it's prepping for the cold ocean of singledom which is always easier when you look good. Additional benefit, it is a natural anti-depresent and hormone balancer. Get lifting!


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Exercise, self-hypnosis CDs, take up a hobby. Just three ideas to help.



:iagree:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheating is a betrayal of her pledges to be your wife.

If she is sleeping with another man, without your approval then she is betraying you.

IF she is sleeping with another man, and you agreed not to, then she is betraying you.

If she is betraying you then she is cheating.

QED - she is cheating.

Now what are you going to do about it? The #1 most effective thing to kill affairs is to expose them - not just on her side, but on the OM's side. Make the affair costly socially, and emotionally for both of them.

btw - from the way you describe things, I strongly suspect the OM was in the picture already before your separation, and getting you out of the picture was part of her wanting to be with him. In short - you've been played.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

lambchops said:


> One other thing that really bloody annoyed me: she had the gall to say that she felt "she wasn't the right person for me". How dare she presume to tell me what is and isn't right for me? Surely that is my decision to make. What she needs to worry about is whether I am right for her. And clearly she thinks I am not.


This BTW is very standard cheater talk - it's a variation of "you deserve someone better", "I hope you find someone to love you.." etc.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lambchops, you have seen a solicitor, haven't you?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

LC interesting choice for a handle...

Just my .02, but your basic question... Yes she cheated.

WD


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