# KISA: throwing his armor away



## Zodiac

Hey Guys, 

I'm single and am here because my twin brother went through a divorce and the Regroup thread helped him a lot, gotta say it jump started me and I laughed out loud several times. He suggested TAM to me, as my 3rd attempt with my one and only GF of 13 years (I'm 36, 3 year brake and I've had about 4 one night stands outside of her), abandoned me not once but twice in a 4-5 month window here at the end, was 6 months ago. YIKES! I did all the wrong things, and have read several threads already where people talk about the problems that revolve around someone with my emotional level and why I had zero growth, one going on right now. She of course was instantly dating and I see sooooo many RED FLAGS now, If i could combine 3 threads I've read it would summarize my relationship almost to the T. It was a hot dumpster fire on wheels rolling down San Francisco streets, and boy did I love her in the most co-dependent pathetic way possible. HAHHA. I appreciate what I've read already as it's help me grow and accept alot. I hope to help my emotional growth as I've never been on a real date, and I was with a narcissist emotional abuser who is a very very angry person. I wish I knew screen writers because it would be the most legit, pathetic rom com ever! Hope to help as much as I learn here. 

-Z

Walker in the stars.

P.S. I cant reply or engage with other threads, though i can post.


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## sunsetmist

Zodiac said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I'm single and am here because my twin brother went through a divorce and the Regroup thread helped him a lot, gotta say it jump started me and I laughed out loud several times. He suggested TAM to me, as my 3rd attempt with my one and only GF of 13 years (I'm 36, 3 year brake and I've had about 4 one night stands outside of her), abandoned me not once but twice in a 4-5 month window here at the end, was 6 months ago. YIKES! I did all the wrong things, and have read several threads already where people talk about the problems that revolve around someone with my emotional level and why I had zero growth, one going on right now. She of course was instantly dating and I see sooooo many RED FLAGS now, If i could combine 3 threads I've read it would summarize my relationship almost to the T. It was a hot dumpster fire on wheels rolling down San Francisco streets, and boy did I love her in the most co-dependent pathetic way possible. HAHHA. I appreciate what I've read already as it's help me grow and accept alot. I hope to help my emotional growth as I've never been on a real date, and I was with a narcissist emotional abuser who is a very very angry person. I wish I knew screen writers because it would be the most legit, pathetic rom com ever! Hope to help as much as I learn here.
> 
> -Z
> 
> Walker in the stars.
> 
> P.S. I cant reply or engage with other threads, though i can post.


Welcome. The way the TAM system works, after you post in this forum, you need to wait a while for the system to give you permission to access other forums.


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## SunCMars

In your neck of the woods, The Zodiac moniker, your Avatar, causes chills to run up and down wiser necks.

Just so you know.....


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## arbitrator

Zodiac said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I'm single and am here because my twin brother went through a divorce and the Regroup thread helped him a lot, gotta say it jump started me and I laughed out loud several times. He suggested TAM to me, as my 3rd attempt with my one and only GF of 13 years (I'm 36, 3 year brake and I've had about 4 one night stands outside of her), abandoned me not once but twice in a 4-5 month window here at the end, was 6 months ago. YIKES! I did all the wrong things, and have read several threads already where people talk about the problems that revolve around someone with my emotional level and why I had zero growth, one going on right now. She of course was instantly dating and I see sooooo many RED FLAGS now, If i could combine 3 threads I've read it would summarize my relationship almost to the T. It was a hot dumpster fire on wheels rolling down San Francisco streets, and boy did I love her in the most co-dependent pathetic way possible. HAHHA. I appreciate what I've read already as it's help me grow and accept alot. I hope to help my emotional growth as I've never been on a real date, and I was with a narcissist emotional abuser who is a very very angry person. I wish I knew screen writers because it would be the most legit, pathetic rom com ever! *Hope to help as much as I learn here.*
> 
> -Z
> 
> Walker in the stars.
> 
> P.S. I cant reply or engage with other threads, though I can post.


*That's the whole mindset of TAM!

Welcome to the TAM Family!*


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## EleGirl

Zodiac said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I'm single and am here because my twin brother went through a divorce and the Regroup thread helped him a lot, gotta say it jump started me and I laughed out loud several times. He suggested TAM to me, as my 3rd attempt with my one and only GF of 13 years (I'm 36, 3 year brake and I've had about 4 one night stands outside of her), abandoned me not once but twice in a 4-5 month window here at the end, was 6 months ago. YIKES! I did all the wrong things, and have read several threads already where people talk about the problems that revolve around someone with my emotional level and why I had zero growth, one going on right now. She of course was instantly dating and I see sooooo many RED FLAGS now, If i could combine 3 threads I've read it would summarize my relationship almost to the T. It was a hot dumpster fire on wheels rolling down San Francisco streets, and boy did I love her in the most *co-dependent* pathetic way possible. HAHHA. I appreciate what I've read already as it's help me grow and accept alot. I hope to help my emotional growth as I've never been on a real date, and I was with a narcissist emotional abuser who is a very very angry person. I wish I knew screen writers because it would be the most legit, pathetic rom com ever! Hope to help as much as I learn here.


How do you define co-dependent?



Zodiac said:


> P.S. I cant reply or engage with other threads, though i can post.


It takes a bit for the system to give new users permission to post on all forums. Sadly we had some horrific spammer attacks a while back with literally hundreds of spam threads being added in a short period of time by one user (or perhaps a spam-bot). So the tech folks changed permissions in a way to keep spammers out. Your patience is appreciated. :smile2:


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## Zodiac

​


SunCMars said:


> In your neck of the woods, The Zodiac moniker, your Avatar, causes chills to run up and down wiser necks.
> 
> Just so you know.....


DIDN'T even think about that. I made one account and used Facebook couldn't figure out how to change my name (was IRL), so I used my gmail email. Zodiac is my gaming name for like 16 years. Its from the ZodiacBraves from final fantasy tactics. I changed my avatar. I was trying to keep it clean and simple. Updated the avatar. Thanks for the comment. :grin2::wink2:


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## Zodiac

EleGirl said:


> How do you define co-dependent?
> 
> . :smile2:


I don't know how to answer that with out like 5 paragraphs. This last attempt when she left with no notice, moved 2 floors down. We reconciled two months later, after a 5ish weeks she asks if i want to move back in. There was a ton of red flags looking back at before she left regarding possible cheating. I said "sure, but we need to talk about why you felt it was okay to just move out with out talking. i'm not mad, and this girl in front of me is the one I've been waiting for." since I saved her from a 2 year heroine addict, her family said she couldn't live with her anymore. Moved her from So. Cal back to the Midwest, we had done this two times already. ( we needed counseling she was never keen on it) 

I said "did you have to do it to feel free, and that you could do it on your own?" Shes never been alone i did it for 3 years during our separation I healed my family issues. her response " I guess I' proud" me: " proud of what" I'm cool and level headed. her: " Well I guess since i got out of here in 4 hours" me: "So you are proud you left me in 4 hrs?" her: " See Zodiac this is why we don't talk you make me want to cut myself." She has said this through our relationship and used to do it when we first got together when we 20. After that statement it was 3 weeks of her fighting with me as i cooked for her etc, her apartment had a bed. I heard things like " You deserve someone who will talk to you, etc." I believe the guy she possibly could have been cheating on me around my Birthday and V-day came back. She was dating almost instantly. Those are horrible incidences she also got in a fight with me a couple of weeks before she left because I bought her a set of tires for her car. 

it was very toxic and i was always afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing. Was very pathetic, especially since the 3 years i was alone i transformed who i was and my life. I wanted to share it with her, biggest mistake of my life. 

I met her after being forced to move from where i was at 18 hours away to my parents by my twin brother who was cheating on my WWGF from another man, it was a ****ing dumpster fire. I aint proud he isnt, we both love each other and have moved on, we all lived together. My love life should be a toxic rom com that ends like life, where no one knows the real outcome. haha


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## Deejo

The thing most people never tell you about wisdom?

It is usually acquired by way of painful life experience. 

Some wisdom is so pricey, that you need to make the painful mistake several times before insight or seeking a different outcome hits you in the head like a 2x4.

Welcome. We have lots of 2x4's on hand, at the ready.


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## Zodiac

Deejo said:


> The thing most people never tell you about wisdom?
> 
> It is usually acquired by way of painful life experience.
> 
> Some wisdom is so pricey, that you need to make the painful mistake several times before insight or seeking a different outcome hits you in the head like a 2x4.
> 
> Welcome. We have lots of 2x4's on hand, at the ready.


Buy in bulk! The demand is going to go up! Thanks for the welcome. :smile2::grin2:


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## EleGirl

Zodiac said:


> I don't know how to answer that with out like 5 paragraphs. This last attempt when she left with no notice, moved 2 floors down. We reconciled two months later, after a 5ish weeks she asks if i want to move back in. There was a ton of red flags looking back at before she left regarding possible cheating. I said "sure, but we need to talk about why you felt it was okay to just move out with out talking. i'm not mad, and this girl in front of me is the one I've been waiting for." since I saved her from a 2 year heroine addict, her family said she couldn't live with her anymore. Moved her from So. Cal back to the Midwest, we had done this two times already. ( we needed counseling she was never keen on it)
> 
> I said "did you have to do it to feel free, and that you could do it on your own?" Shes never been alone i did it for 3 years during our separation I healed my family issues. her response " I guess I' proud" me: " proud of what" I'm cool and level headed. her: " Well I guess since i got out of here in 4 hours" me: "So you are proud you left me in 4 hrs?" her: " See Zodiac this is why we don't talk you make me want to cut myself." She has said this through our relationship and used to do it when we first got together when we 20. After that statement it was 3 weeks of her fighting with me as i cooked for her etc, her apartment had a bed. I heard things like " You deserve someone who will talk to you, etc." I believe the guy she possibly could have been cheating on me around my Birthday and V-day came back. She was dating almost instantly. Those are horrible incidences she also got in a fight with me a couple of weeks before she left because I bought her a set of tires for her car.
> 
> it was very toxic and i was always afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing. Was very pathetic, especially since the 3 years i was alone i transformed who i was and my life. I wanted to share it with her, biggest mistake of my life.
> 
> I met her after being forced to move from where i was at 18 hours away to my parents by my twin brother who was cheating on my WWGF from another man, it was a ****ing dumpster fire. I aint proud he isnt, we both love each other and have moved on, we all lived together. My love life should be a toxic rom com that ends like life, where no one knows the real outcome. haha


She cheated. She left you more than once. You did you go back and pursue her, cook her meals, etc.? She made a huge statement by leaving, one that says that she does not want to be with you. So why did you not respect her desire to leave you?


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## Zodiac

EleGirl said:


> She cheated. She left you more than once. You did you go back and pursue her, cook her meals, etc.? She made a huge statement by leaving, one that says that she does not want to be with you. So why did you not respect her desire to leave you?


Cheated: Not proven, but all the red flags, body language was there. now that i've been on TAM and read books and no what to look for. The look on her face when I heard her laughing down the hallway on V-Day and then walk into the apartment with me cooking, Steak, lobster and scallops and she gets hit by a bucket of water..... Denial on my part, and what i thought was love. The person who comforted me when my family didn't all those years ago. I was bamboozled when she needed to restart her life, and when it started to take off she got distant. 

Left/Went back: Yea, I called her one night for ex sex. She said one of her co workers was telling her to go back and that its not over, etc. She said it was the first day she unblocked me, she was drinking at a bar down the street. next morning i realize shes still living in the same apartment complex. 

Cooking etc: Caretaker nice guy. Though I'm a huger and would communicate my love, my dad raised me as a single father untill he and my mom got back together (realizing it now its because they had kids) I always saw him doing house hold chores so i filled that role, my ex hardly did any maybe cleaned the house 5 times in the year and half. She had a good gig. haha

Huge Statement: I chalked it up to he going from one relationship with an abusive heroine addict to me, i understood the healing process. after the ex-sex she was the one who re-initiated the reconciliation, that being said she was ensuring emotionally she made the right call. 

Respect: I hadn't received it in so long it was a foreign notion to me. We also always did the cat and mouse, it was her way of seeing me try harder. I actually did what she did to me by the end with her ex heroine bf. She used me against him, and I used a coworker against her. I never hid or did anything it was banter not sexual in nature on FB messenger that was always logged in, like i said I look back now and it was toxic. the only time she saw me was when she was threatened.


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## Zodiac

My brother had me 180 right away and for the first time my family isn't staying in contact with her after she left. My mom saved her because she always said she was abused. She let it slip it was because she was unruly child, etc and not outright abused. Yet i would have to listen to my mom talk on Sundays when i went over for family breakfast to her on the phone, laughing. My mom realizes it was a power play by my ex and very inappropriate. It always made me feel like I didn't try hard enough the last time or i made a mistake, even though i pushed for counseling always. I do regret not calling her out on the cheating, etc. The last time I talked to her was still about trying to say we can be together we just need counseling so we can talk to each out, and I know validation would do little yo help me and making her feel ****ty for all the support i gave her wouldn't mean anything i suppose. When he had me do it, i wasn't mentally ready or at that stage, or even strong enough. The last 6 months have been alot of anxiety, depressed and lonely nights. Of course people told me that by month 2 or 3 no one believed they just started dating i was rarely on her social media, She initiated the love bombing right away.


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## EleGirl

Zodiac said:


> Cheated: Not proven, but all the red flags, body language was there. now that i've been on TAM and read books and no what to look for. The look on her face when I heard her laughing down the hallway on V-Day and then walk into the apartment with me cooking, Steak, lobster and scallops and she gets hit by a bucket of water..... Denial on my part, and what i thought was love. The person who comforted me when my family didn't all those years ago. I was bamboozled when she needed to restart her life, and when it started to take off she got distant.


If you have no solid proof of her cheating, it has to be assumed that she did not cheat. Until you have the evidence you really have to assume that she did not cheat.



Zodiac said:


> Left/Went back: Yea, I called her one night for ex sex. She said one of her co workers was telling her to go back and that its not over, etc. She said it was the first day she unblocked me, she was drinking at a bar down the street. next morning i realize shes still living in the same apartment complex.


OK


Zodiac said:


> Cooking etc: Caretaker nice guy. Though I'm a huger and would communicate my love, my dad raised me as a single father untill he and my mom got back together (realizing it now its because they had kids) I always saw him doing house hold chores so i filled that role, my ex hardly did any maybe cleaned the house 5 times in the year and half. She had a good gig. haha.


I was not questioning why you, as a man, would be cooking. After all you are responsible to take care of yourself. And if you are in a relationship, it’s as much your responsibility to cook, clean, etc. as it is hers. It’s good that your dad taught you this.

It seems that you let her get away with dumping a lot of the housework on you. That’s on you. A lesson to learn is to not let this happen in the future.



Zodiac said:


> Huge Statement: I chalked it up to he going from one relationship with an abusive heroine addict to me, i understood the healing process. after the ex-sex she was the one who re-initiated the reconciliation, that being said she was ensuring emotionally she made the right call.


This is where you KISA tendencies come in. Basically, you were the exit affair that helped her get out of the relationship with the addict. The problem with that is that exit affairs are just that, relationships that are stepping stones out of something. In a situation like this, usually once a person is over their addict ex, they will move on from the exit relationship because it has served its purpose. But it sounds like the two of you strung this relationship out for 13 years, with a lot of drama in-between.

Here’s some reading about the KISA.
https://www.qualityhealth.com/relationships-articles/could-you-knight-shining-armor-syndrome



Zodiac said:


> Respect: I hadn't received it in so long it was a foreign notion to me. We also always did the cat and mouse, it was her way of seeing me try harder. I actually did what she did to me by the end with her ex heroine bf. She used me against him, and I used a coworker against her. I never hid or did anything it was banter not sexual in nature on FB messenger that was always logged in, like i said I look back now and it was toxic. the only time she saw me was when she was threatened.


She only saw you when she was threatened because you were her KISA. Not what you want as the basis of a relationship.

Now back to the use of the word “codependent”. A lot of people misuse that word. 

Definition of codependency 
: a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition (such as an addiction to alcohol or heroin) broadly: dependence on the needs of or control by another​
I don’t’ think that what you describe codependency. There are very different motivations for KISA and codependency, and very different solutions to each of them.


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## Zodiac

Well someone I know friend requested me off her Facebook friends list (fellow mason), and this was about 2 months after. She unblocked me and I saw him as a mutual friend. When I asked him how long they had been dating he said 3 or 4 months. Soon to be brother in law. People think she left me for him, they had a HUGE fight and she came back, once i made her feel like a ****ty person for just asking her rational behind it and for moving out on me and i wasn't going to just accept her crappy behavior and move back in with her, the fighting started again. I feel so dumb loving such a user. I find it funny because this is the girl who changed the amazon account password when she stormed out one night and always unfriended me right away. within 5 mins. So she left me a friend or forgot then unblocked me to harm me, etc. cat and mouse. She did jump lanes of traffic one day when i ended up behind. Ya, well you moved out and moved just 2 floors below me, of course this was going to happen. Weird behavior for someone empowered and happy with nothing to be shamful about. 

Most people who hear how she asked if her friend could come to my birthday party, i said yea it's a party. It was the three of us and it was the identical party my friends threw for me the year before, just no one was invited but she asked if her friend can come (was duped and she was emotionally disconnecting). The V-DAy and then her being upset i wanted to buy her car tires, moving out without their being a fight, etc. I was bamboozled. I only initiated contact, had to wrap her legs around me, when i confronted the one friend about the cheating she said she didn't and it was because I didn't give her a kid. It's a two person job. I'm now 36 and having to deal with the fact she was dating weeks after asking me to move in etc. I never have had another adult or healthy relationship. It's very daunting and i try not to be spiteful towards her.

She was by far the more ALPHA of the two. I didnt want the fight or the headache, I gave her anything and everything she asked for. I was a "nice guy"

This is the woman who yelled in my face when i asked her to open a join bank account because we needed to pay off her debt fi we were going to start a family, buy a house, kid etc. from when we were young and she got 5k in christmas stuff on amazon cards, and a vet bill for our rabbit/child she called it when she left the last time. I asked her to stop travelling along because people where talking about me at work, and we needed to plan and work on our family, still asked to travel a month later. I was a fool and should have ended it their. 

Well she was what i needed emotionally, so maybe just me being the nice guy/KISA was my issue.

Anyways, YES i was an immature emotionally deveolped person due to her inability for us to communicate. she dated in between our brake ups and got to grow. I was just ALWAYS THE NICE guy who paid her phone bill when she was going to have it shut off. I realize how pathetic i was, and who could honestly respect and want that. It's a ****ty pill.


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## EleGirl

Zodiac said:


> Well she was what i needed emotionally, so maybe just me being the nice guy/KISA was my issue.
> 
> Anyways, YES i was an immature emotionally deveolped person due to her inability for us to communicate. she dated in between our brake ups and got to grow. I was just ALWAYS THE NICE guy who paid her phone bill when she was going to have it shut off. I realize how pathetic i was, and who could honestly respect and want that. It's a ****ty pill.


So, now that's all over. You are moving on.

What are you doing for yourself now? What is your social life like? Are you working out? Are you going to counseling or doing any reading that will help you figure out how you contributed to all that and how you avoid doing so in your next relationship?


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## sunsetmist

I think you are wise to read other posts and try to learn from them. Also, being new, I appreciate you helping another poster with your story.


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## Zodiac

EleGirl said:


> So, now that's all over. You are moving on.
> 
> What are you doing for yourself now? What is your social life like? Are you working out? Are you going to counseling or doing any reading that will help you figure out how you contributed to all that and how you avoid doing so in your next relationship?


Got back into a sales job going on my 4th week (had so much anxiety with how she left me, cost me a job, she knew i had abandonment issues from the beginning of the relationship, I think thats why i went back was to avoid that huge fear.), i lost 2 jobs at the back end of it. She always said she made me smoke pot and i never believed her, but yea. I did alot of coping through self medication in regards to how _*I*_ let her make me feel, and how _*I *_let myself be treated. Substance went away the three years she was away and it was always recreational then. I just left Costco where i was lifting 60 lbs chicken boxes all day, so thank god for that aspect of the job for awhile, gained a lot of muscle and kept me active. getting back into kendo, modeling for commercials and setting up concerts (things she had me stop when she got back as she didn't like me not home when she got home, red flag) I don't have benefits atm, so this forum and some books are my guiding light, I have read "No more Mr. Nice guy" that was a wake up call. My brother has some others for me to read. He went through a divorce. I wont ever let myself be treated the way I let myself be treated again. I'm working on my KISA/empath tendencies going forward. I cant protect or heal everyone, especially at the cost of myself. I'm too old and it takes too much. I also attract alot of takers as I give too freely. I'm trying to set healthy boundaries,, even to my friends. I'm a yes man and have a hard time being strong for me, but not other people. I listen to a lot of Trent Shelton, Ace Metaphor and some other positive/relationship speakers. Trying not to be the victim. It's hard to accept because I gave everything away, i lost everything. Trying to reign in the anxiety of being alone and possibly not having a family. I have no idea how to date/pick up women. HHAHAHA. The last time this happened i had family for support they are all gone, but I have a really good friend... the brother i would choose. Just honestly trying to get through the holidays.


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## Zodiac

sunsetmist said:


> I think you are wise to read other posts and try to learn from them. Also, being new, I appreciate you helping another poster with your story.


Thanks, just how he was saying some things. it triggered me, I just wanted to yell through the computer, GUARD YOUR SOUL!!! I also have that 1% aspect still holding on though mine left me and is already dating someone quite seriously already, I 180'd and i asked them never to inform me again. That's why i know if he takes her back, he gets comfortable and she leaves he will be one-two combo'd so hard. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. From what I can tell it's us Romantic male saps who think Rom Coms are real and they work out. :wink2::grin2::redcard:


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## sunsetmist

Zodiac said:


> Got back into a sales job going on my 4th week (had so much anxiety with how she left me, cost me a job, she knew i had abandonment issues from the beginning of the relationship, I think thats why i went back was to avoid that huge fear.), i lost 2 jobs at the back end of it. She always said she made me smoke pot and i never believed her, but yea. I did alot of coping through self medication in regards to how _*I*_ let her make me feel, and how _*I *_let myself be treated. Substance went away the three years she was away and it was always recreational then. I just left Costco where i was lifting 60 lbs chicken boxes all day, so thank god for that aspect of the job for awhile, gained a lot of muscle and kept me active. getting back into kendo, modeling for commercials and setting up concerts (things she had me stop when she got back as she didn't like me not home when she got home, red flag) I don't have benefits atm, so this forum and some books are my guiding light, I have read "No more Mr. Nice guy" that was a wake up call. My brother has some others for me to read. He went through a divorce. I wont ever let myself be treated the way I let myself be treated again. I'm working on my *KISA*/empath tendencies going forward. *I cant protect or heal everyone, especially at the cost of myself*. I'm too old and it takes too much. I also attract alot of takers as I give too freely. I'm trying to set healthy boundaries,, even to my friends. *I'm a yes man and have a hard time being strong for me, but not other people. *I listen to a lot of Trent Shelton, Ace Metaphor and some other positive/relationship speakers. Trying not to be the victim. It's hard to accept because I gave everything away, *i lost everything. Trying to reign in the anxiety of being alone and possibly not having a family.* I have no idea how to date/pick up women. HHAHAHA. The last time this happened i had family for support they are all gone, but I have a really good friend... the brother i would choose. Just honestly trying to get through the holidays.


Many of the things you mentioned above are likely related. This probably started in your FOO. 

You are YOUNG with lots of time for finding 'the one' and having a family. Meanwhile continue to work on yourself--who you are and what you stand for. 

I learned to say something like, "I would like to help you, but I can't." Figure out several honest answers before the situations arise. Remember NO is a complete sentence, but I bet you have trouble saying it and stopping. Also, remember that you do not have to explain or make excuses for whatever stances you espouse. After all, if someone told you to commit murder, you'd likely say no because of your beliefs. All your beliefs deserve equal representation. Besides, it is OK to be wrong or change your mind at a LATER DATE, if you think things over and choose to do so. Similarly, you can always say, "I need to think about it." before I give you an answer. 

Practice things like this ahead of time. You need to put yourself before rescuing another. Therefore, you must have confidence in yourself!


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## Zodiac

sunsetmist said:


> Many of the things you mentioned above are likely related. This probably started in your FOO.
> 
> You are YOUNG with lots of time for finding 'the one' and having a family. Meanwhile continue to work on yourself--who you are and what you stand for.
> 
> I learned to say something like, "I would like to help you, but I can't." Figure out several honest answers before the situations arise. Remember NO is a complete sentence, but I bet you have trouble saying it and stopping. Also, remember that you do not have to explain or make excuses for whatever stances you espouse. After all, if someone told you to commit murder, you'd likely say no because of your beliefs. All your beliefs deserve equal representation. Besides, it is OK to be wrong or change your mind at a LATER DATE, if you think things over and choose to do so. Similarly, you can always say, "I need to think about it." before I give you an answer.
> 
> Practice things like this ahead of time. You need to put yourself before rescuing another. Therefore, you must have confidence in yourself!


FOO = Family of Origin? My brother said our mother made us healers to heal her/and made us listeners/emotional because my dad is a good man from a different era but who expresses almost no emotion but is a f'n rock. So to fix their problems in the relationship. She was a yeller/screamer but always justified it because she was actually trying to express her self, coupled with the man who was a rock. Probably only reason it quasi worked for my parents. She was abused as a child and when my parents split, she had a very abusive BF, parents got back together. 

The sentences for boundaries are fantastic. Will write them down on post it's and put them up.


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## sunsetmist

Appreciate your honesty. I hope you've had therapy for FOO issues and how they affect you now--expect you still have work to do. Find a therapist with experience in such things. 

Work on yourself and other things will be easier for you. A relationship is stronger when both partners contribute equally. Otherwise, one becomes more like a parent to the other. 

Do you have a mentor, someone stable whom you admire? This could be a church friend, fellow coach, workout partner, fellow hobbyist, etc.? Develop support in your daily life. Associate with folks who are solid, fun to be with--those who seem to demonstrate an even keel in life.

If holidays are difficult for you, plan ahead..... good luck.


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## Chuck71

Zodiac said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I'm single and am here because my twin brother went through a divorce and the *Regroup thread* helped him a lot, gotta say it jump started me and I laughed out loud several times. He suggested TAM to me, as my 3rd attempt with my one and only GF of 13 years (I'm 36, 3 year brake and I've had about 4 one night stands outside of her), abandoned me not once but twice in a 4-5 month window here at the end, was 6 months ago. YIKES! I did all the wrong things, and have read several threads already where people talk about the problems that revolve around someone with my emotional level and why I had zero growth, one going on right now. She of course was instantly dating and I see sooooo many RED FLAGS now, If i could combine 3 threads I've read it would summarize my relationship almost to the T. It was a hot dumpster fire on wheels rolling down San Francisco streets, and boy did I love her in the most co-dependent pathetic way possible. HAHHA. I appreciate what I've read already as it's help me grow and accept alot. I hope to help my emotional growth as I've never been on a real date, and I was with a narcissist emotional abuser who is a very very angry person. I wish I knew screen writers because it would be the most legit, pathetic rom com ever! Hope to help as much as I learn here.
> 
> -Z
> 
> Walker in the stars.
> 
> P.S. I cant reply or engage with other threads, though i can post.


I still recommend that thread to this day. Damn that was an awesome sports thread LOL

Well it did have some sage advice too 8>) There are a group of guys who came to TAM

about the same time I did. Most do not post here anymore but we all kinda stay in contact.

Since I had no kids with WC, my D was super fast. Sadly couldn't say the same for most of

the others. But if you notice....we all were posting on ReGroup's thread. 

We all learned a great deal from Conrad and Mav. Even though mine was done, I still learned a ton

for "future reference." Mav touched on her relationship with her parents. It was....maybe 18 months

after the thread died out and I was re-reading it while taking a few guys under my wing.

I really noticed Mav's story with her parents. Well the very week I finished the thread, my

mom had a heart attack and triple by-pass. But dementia had started setting in. She had a mini stroke,

then another couple months later. Each one drove her deeper into dementia. She was a great mom

for 40+ years. But she slowly turned into, what I am certain she once was.... an entitled princess,

drama queen, hot mess she was back in the 60's and 70's. Before I came along and while I

was very young. I learned of the rationale of how to set boundaries with your parents, from Mav

and the ReGroup thread. She passed away in late 2016 but for the last four months (minus the last),

I 180'd her with zero contact. Yeah some may say I was harsh, or was an ass.... I can understand that.

But when mom told me I was the kid she should have aborted..... you can't say anything worse.

I left everything on the field and even today, still have "no apologies." Popism-If they's damn crazy

and you listen to them, then you's damn crazy too- And mom actually was BSC near the end.

We made peace.....and not a day goes by I don't miss the $^^^$ outta her. But to the point...

that thread helped me, like it helped you. Had I just shut mom down (like I would have say 10 years earlier)

and not set boundaries with consequences, I would have regretted it until the day I die.

Or if I just allowed her to pull her crap, cuss me, walk all over me...I would have despised her and be relieved

when she died. And spent the remaining 40? years of my life really never dealing with it.

But I didn't.... thanks to ReGroup coming here and Mav posting. If ReGroup was the first thread you

read, you got an awesome start.


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## Zodiac

Chuck71 said:


> I still recommend that thread to this day. Damn that was an awesome sports thread LOL
> 
> Well it did have some sage advice too 8>) There are a group of guys who came to TAM
> 
> about the same time I did. Most do not post here anymore but we all kinda stay in contact.
> 
> Since I had no kids with WC, my D was super fast. Sadly couldn't say the same for most of
> 
> the others. But if you notice....we all were posting on ReGroup's thread.
> 
> We all learned a great deal from Conrad and Mav. Even though mine was done, I still learned a ton
> 
> for "future reference." Mav touched on her relationship with her parents. It was....maybe 18 months
> 
> after the thread died out and I was re-reading it while taking a few guys under my wing.
> 
> I really noticed Mav's story with her parents. Well the very week I finished the thread, my
> 
> mom had a heart attack and triple by-pass. But dementia had started setting in. She had a mini stroke,
> 
> then another couple months later. Each one drove her deeper into dementia. She was a great mom
> 
> for 40+ years. But she slowly turned into, what I am certain she once was.... an entitled princess,
> 
> drama queen, hot mess she was back in the 60's and 70's. Before I came along and while I
> 
> was very young. I learned of the rationale of how to set boundaries with your parents, from Mav
> 
> and the ReGroup thread. She passed away in late 2016 but for the last four months (minus the last),
> 
> I 180'd her with zero contact. Yeah some may say I was harsh, or was an ass.... I can understand that.
> 
> But when mom told me I was the kid she should have aborted..... you can't say anything worse.
> 
> I left everything on the field and even today, still have "no apologies." Popism-If they's damn crazy
> 
> and you listen to them, then you's damn crazy too- And mom actually was BSC near the end.
> 
> We made peace.....and not a day goes by I don't miss the $^^^$ outta her. But to the point...
> 
> that thread helped me, like it helped you. Had I just shut mom down (like I would have say 10 years earlier)
> 
> and not set boundaries with consequences, I would have regretted it until the day I die.
> 
> Or if I just allowed her to pull her crap, cuss me, walk all over me...I would have despised her and be relieved
> 
> when she died. And spent the remaining 40? years of my life really never dealing with it.
> 
> But I didn't.... thanks to ReGroup coming here and Mav posting. If ReGroup was the first thread you
> 
> read, you got an awesome start.


It's a perfect story, and it shows how men can be supported. It also shows you how you have to own your 50%. I can't prove my EX was cheating but the red flags was there. I realized giving her everything she wanted, ensured we would have communication issues down the way. I 180 per my brother after everything fell apart, and therefor I wont be doing your special kind of letter. If I recall you're a fan of not the forgiveness letter, but something a little more empowering! haha. I wish i wasn't such a doormat, even though, I'm pretty sure she is a cluster B personality. Count my lucky stars that i never had a kid, though since I stayed in a toxic environment, it made me toxic. I know have to live with contributing to the overall death of my spiritual self. Yes, the advice given is sage like and perfect. It's when i started realizing that my ex, would say "this is why we don't talk, you make me want to cut myself" is all about control. "Do you even love me?", etc is all about attention, while diminishing me, etc. Honored, you found this thread and said something. My twin is a LONG TIME HUGE LURKER on here. I said your name and he's like what really? haha.


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## MattMatt

@Zodiac, you loved someone who, it seems, didn't deserve your love.

That's on her, not you.


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## Laurentium

EleGirl said:


> *There are very different motivations for KISA and codependency, and very different solutions to each of them.*


I am surprised you say that, I have always thought of them as similar. And the definitions of each that you referenced seemed similar to me. Can you explain some more about the difference?


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## Chuck71

Zodiac said:


> It's a perfect story, and it shows how men can be supported. It also shows you how you have to own your 50%. I can't prove my EX was cheating but the red flags was there. I realized giving her everything she wanted, ensured we would have communication issues down the way. I 180 per my brother after everything fell apart, and therefor I wont be doing your special kind of letter. If I recall you're a fan of not the forgiveness letter, but something a little more empowering! haha. I wish i wasn't such a doormat, even though, I'm pretty sure she is a cluster B personality. Count my lucky stars that i never had a kid, though since I stayed in a toxic environment, it made me toxic. I know have to live with contributing to the overall death of my spiritual self. Yes, the advice given is sage like and perfect. It's when i started realizing that my ex, would say "this is why we don't talk, you make me want to cut myself" is all about control. "Do you even love me?", etc is all about attention, while diminishing me, etc. Honored, you found this thread and said something. My twin is a LONG TIME HUGE LURKER on here. I said your name and he's like what really? haha.


My threads from my D are still here, if you'd like to check them out. Your g/f turned you into a

drug addict. Yeah.... she gave you the certain chemicals to make you want her. And when you 

did, you were toast. This proceeded her into using you. But I'm not telling you anything you do not,

now know. It shouldn't matter if she was at your door, naked n bowed with her juggies juggling.... 

that's what snared you in the first place. You have to examine the person....like a job interview

when you are prepped to take it the long haul. My 1st love and 3rd (ex W)....were "mountain" gals

in a way. Confident, not (very) jealous, matter of fact, in your face. I want that.

Since we are about to celebrate two years together, I guess you can say, she is #5. #1 and #3 were 

so much like her. Maybe I had #2 and #4 as learning experiences. That's for debate

on another thread. But the bad part....is I was guarded at first, even though I knew.

But I'm "there" now with her. Something attracted you to her more than the sex and the fixer role.....

What was it?


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