# I destroyed my beautiful family, I don't deserve to live any more



## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

... not helping ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not trying to be mean here but want to be very clear on the following:

You have already hurt your marriage and family with selfish actions. Now you are talking about taking your own life. This is an even more profoundly selfish act that would only serve to destroy your wife and children. Sure, you will not be here to see the horror you have brought into their lives. But is this really what you want to do to them? If not.. .stop the talk about killing yourself.

Keep in mind that if your are telling this to your wife, it will not get her to stay with you. It will make her run away from you as fast as she can.

If you are really considering suicide, here is a link and phone number to a suicide prevention lifeline and their phone number.

*US: Lifeline or 1-800-273-TALK

Canada: Thinking About Suicide? | Crisis Services Canada*


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Well, OK, not a lot you can do if she does not want to try and stay in the marriage. Keep saying that you are sorry, listen to her when she talks, all the usual. 

Read how to help your spouse heal from your affair. Google it. 

And hey, how about you stop feeling sorry for yourself and man up already. You made a decision, not a mistake, and now you have to live with it. I would have never let it get like this in the first place but it is too late for that now.

Just a hint, generally if your girl does not want to perform oral on you, and you are hygienic, she is not into you. And girls just don't please. 

Stay calm, and read that book. It will help you understand what she is going through. 

Now it could be she was looking for a good reason to divorce you, or she may just be freaked out, or she may not know what to do. 

Hang in there...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Stop the suicide talk and get thyself to counseling.

You are needed despite screwing up your marriage and hurting your wife and children. Regardless of your marriage surviving or not, you are needed by both your children and your wife.

You will always be dad. Own up to your poor choices and make positive differences for yourself and they will see a man who did something awful and stop while repairing and improving yourself. That will be a good life lesson for them.

Your wife may not be your wife soon but she still needs you. You are the father of her children and she has loved you for a long time.

Your marriage might not be retrievable but she still needs a relationship with you and it wouldn't hurt her to be around and improve yourself.

The oral sex is an issue I wish you had brought up here before cheating.

That is a real concern but it is overshadowed by your destructive decisions.

Be as amicable in the divorce as possible and do what you need to do to keep your family as secure as you can even if you don't get to be married to your wife anymore.

Self harming isn't a good choice and will hurt everyone even more than your infidelity.

Love your family by doing good for them.

Get help asap first.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

well, ConanHub said it really well. You may have lost your marriage, but you are still needed in the lives of your family.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*@ImAnIdiot,*

How long ago did your wife find out about your cheating?

Here are a couple of books that will give you a some ideas of how to work on your relationship with your wife and how to become a better person after all the problems that have been created.

*How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful*

*Healing from Infidelity: The Divorce Busting® Guide to Rebuilding Your Marriage After an Affair*


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Let her go and work on you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Not excusing your actions - you should have told her that the sexual disconnection was really causing you to think outside the box to solve.

Bear in mind that a W that won't even entertain oral on her H in some fashion if her H is being a good lover is by her actions showing she's not that into him any more and may be taking him for granted.

Just giving duty sex, and all that, to keep her lifestyle in place.

Especially if he performs oral on her. Are you manning up in the sex department?

Hang in there.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

well, you are an idiot.

that said, a lot of us are idiots for one reason or the other. I've done idiotic things in my life. never cheated or destroyed my marriage, but still...….I've been an idiot.

you've got to learn to live with yourself. become a better person. it will not happen in a week or a year, or even five years maybe.
it will happen one day at a time until you realize some time down the road you are that better person. as others have already said, no matter what you did, you still have value
as a human being.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> Just a hint, generally if your girl does not want to perform oral on you, and you are hygienic, she is not into you...





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> ...Bear in mind that a W that won't even entertain oral on her H in some fashion if her H is being a good lover is by her actions showing she's not that into him any more ...


As I said, I don't blame her at all. She was raised in a very traditional strict kind of environment, I was her first and she has never, ever performed oral on me, it was not that she was not into me, it's just the way she is. She still loved me up until that point from what she told me, she said that I hurt her so much because I betrayed her total love for me.

I've been trying to talk to my wife, but couldn't she asked me not to be in the same room with her, and all my kids have been avoiding me, they don't want to talk to me either. Aside from the time doing work (from home), I'm just sitting in the dark with all the guilt, the regrets, the sorrow, just very depressed, the total isolation is driving me crazy that made me just want to end it all. I feel so helpless that my wife and kids are not giving me a chance to make things right.

But anyway, thanks for all the responses.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> As I said, I don't blame her at all. She was raised in a very traditional strict kind of environment, I was her first and she has never, ever performed oral on me, it was not that she was not into me, it's just the way she is. She still loved me up until that point from what she told me, she said that I hurt her so much because I betrayed her total love for me.
> 
> I've been trying to talk to my wife, but couldn't she asked me not to be in the same room with her, and all my kids have been avoiding me, they don't want to talk to me either. Aside from the time doing work (from home), I'm just sitting in the dark with all the guilt, the regrets, the sorrow, just very depressed, the total isolation is driving me crazy that made me just want to end it all. I feel so helpless that my wife and kids are not giving me a chance to make things right.
> 
> But anyway, thanks for all the responses.


You do need interaction especially now. I don't know resources but it is important to get someone to talk to. Get a professional counselor. Ask around online and on the phone to get a good fit.

Your family isn't in a good place right now either so they could use it too.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

ImAnIdiot said:


> As I said, I don't blame her at all. She was raised in a very traditional strict kind of environment, I was her first and she has never, ever performed oral on me, it was not that she was not into me, it's just the way she is. She still loved me up until that point from what she told me, she said that I hurt her so much because I betrayed her total love for me.
> 
> I've been trying to talk to my wife, but couldn't she asked me not to be in the same room with her, and all my kids have been avoiding me, they don't want to talk to me either. Aside from the time doing work (from home), I'm just sitting in the dark with all the guilt, the regrets, the sorrow, just very depressed, the total isolation is driving me crazy that made me just want to end it all. I feel so helpless that my wife and kids are not giving me a chance to make things right.
> 
> But anyway, thanks for all the responses.


If you are thinking about ending it, the call the hotline that elle put in her first post...

It has been two days right, or course your wife does not want to talk to you. 

I know you are down, but you need to get over some of this, and pull your self up by your boot straps. 

She may want to talk to you later but you don't need to off yourself... 

Come on man...


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

ImAnIdiot said:


> As I said, I don't blame her at all. She was raised in a very traditional strict kind of environment, I was her first and she has never, ever performed oral on me, it was not that she was not into me, it's just the way she is. She still loved me up until that point from what she told me, she said that I hurt her so much because I betrayed her total love for me.
> 
> I've been trying to talk to my wife, but couldn't she asked me not to be in the same room with her, and all my kids have been avoiding me, they don't want to talk to me either. Aside from the time doing work (from home), I'm just sitting in the dark with all the guilt, the regrets, the sorrow, just very depressed, the total isolation is driving me crazy that made me just want to end it all. I feel so helpless that my wife and kids are not giving me a chance to make things right.
> 
> But anyway, thanks for all the responses.


If she never performed oral on you prior to marriage, you should have known that that was off the plate.
If that was all that important to you, you should have never signed up.
You screwed up big time. Own that to your family.
Your best shot: Apologize sincerely. Come up with and lay out a plan to repair the damage and reestablish trust. Immediately go and seek some help. Work to correct your issues and become a better person.
You may never be able to repair the damage. However, right now, emotions are raw and everyone is still in shock.
Over time, their stance may soften, especially if you demonstrate your progress and show true remorse.
I guess the good news is you are still in the house. Pandemic or not, if she wanted you out that bad, you'd be gone.
Best of luck.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

One thing you can do while you're shut out is to write out a timeline for your wife. You know exactly when you went to your first prostitute and how many times thereafter. The 3-5 years ago is ******** - you know exactly. Give details of exactly what transpired between the prostitute and yourself i.e. who touched who, how long did it take, how much did it cost, how you found them, what they looked like, what the room looked like, does anyone know, when and where - everything. Don't tell your wife you're doing this - just have it on hand for when or if she starts asking questions.

Whatever you do, do NOT trickle truth or minimize what happened thinking you are sparing her pain - it will only cause her more pain when she realizes you've been withholding/lying. Don't try to cover your ass in any way, shape or form. 

As for your kids, allow them their disappointment but, remember, you are married to their mother and they need to stay out of the marriage.

You're going to need a lot of luck, love, patience and understanding going forward if you want to try to salvage this relationship. So, buckle up Buttercup and dry those tears. Good luck to you.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I have (or now I should say I've had) a wonderful family that anyone could have dreamt of. A wonderful wife of 25 years who has dedicated her entire life to raising her family, we have 3 great kids (1 teen & 2 young adults), a beautiful suburban home and very financially stable.
> 
> My wife is a beautiful woman, smart, witty, and talented in almost everything (fashion, cooking, gardening, singing, dancing, even minor household repairs), she worked hard all the time but somehow still managed to maintain a beautiful home.
> 
> ...


Oh good Lord. This is one long, dramatic pity party. Suicide? Talk about even MORE selfish! No....you don't do thst.

You live.

You live, and you zip up the martyr act and Shakesperean monologue.

You ACT. You becoming 100% transparent. You tell EVERYONE the truth. You take 100% responsibility and don't you dare mention your spouse's flaws or poor me no oral sex.

And you work yourself into the next decade becoming a better man. Through ACTION.

And if she wants you out.....you leave. If she files for divorce, you treat her fairly.

Actions have consequences. The ONLY way your marriage survives is if you change, show real remorse, and don't expect your wife to carry the pain you brought on yourself.

And yes, I'd tell a cheating wife the same thing.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

P. S. ANYONE who makes this about sex acts your wife would or wouldn't do is not going to help you become a better man.

I'm a woman who's into EVERYTHING with my hubby, but even I know discussion of her sexual act repertoire is a crap discussion.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Back off and give your family space. It’s up to them when they decide they want contact with you. Begging, pleading, bargaining, or whatever — no place for that. Actions have consequences for all of us and you’re now seeing yours.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

First off, if you are thinking about suicide then you have two options.

1) Contact a suicide hotline via phone, live chat, or text. Thinking About Suicide? | Crisis Services Canada

2) Go to the ER and tell them you are suicidal.

I would recommend starting with option one unless you are seriously considering suicide and have a plan in place to take your life. Option number one can be done from the comfort of your own home, car, etc. If needed, they will help you figure out what the next step for you is. That may be helping you find a therapist, helping you find a hospital, or having a crisis team contact you.

Seriously. Contact a suicide crisis line.

After that, you should contact a close friend or family member and talk to them. Let them know what happened and what you are feeling. Be open and honest with them. They will help you if you allow them to and they will help keep you safe. You should not be socially isolating yourself. Physical distance, yes, but not social distance. Reach out, let people help you.

Why would you end your life just because your marriage _might _be over? You still have children who, whether they realize it right now or not, want and need their father. You have the mother of your children who, regardless of whether you are together or not, will need you to continue raising your children with her. You have friends and family who love and care about you. You may have people at work or in hobbies who rely on you and your presence. Your marriage is a small piece and it is not the end all be all.

Do you know who suffers when someone dies by suicide? The children. The spouse. The family. The friends. They all wonder what they could have or should have done differently. The go through terrible guilt and grief. You have realized now how much damage your actions caused, do you really want to cause _more_? OR should you pick up the pieces now and do the next right thing?

What is the next right thing here? It's not suicide. That doesn't solve anything. All it does is create more pain and more grief. You want to end your pain, right? What about all the pain your wife and kids are currently feeling? It will be amplified if you choose suicide.

The next right thing is righting your wrongs, and yes you can do that. Does that mean your life will go back to what it was before? No, but you really don't want it to. Your life before was what led you here and what you, and your wife, thought you had was an illusion.

Yes, your wife may decide to end the marriage. She has every right to do that. Just like _you_ had every right to end the marriage years ago when you were not fulfilled.

When you decided to cheat you showed your wife that you have no respect or care for her. You risked her health, ruined the fidelity, etc. Now is your opportunity to offer her respect and care. Respect that she needs space and time. After everything you took away from her, that is the _least_ you can give her.

This is very fresh for your wife. Yes, she may end the marriage. She may also decide she wants to reconcile but that won't be an option if you choose suicide, now will it?

I'm reconciling with my wife after she had two affairs that spanned many years. When it all came out, she hit rock bottom and attempted suicide. Her attempt was unsuccessful, as many are. Where would we be if she HAD been successful? We wouldn't be reconciling and my children would have lost their mother. Instead, she is here, we are a family, and her relationships with the kids are being repaired.

That wouldn't be possible if her suicide attempt was successful, and it won't be for you either.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Back off and give your family space. It’s up to them when they decide they want contact with you. Begging, pleading, bargaining, or whatever — no place for that. Actions have consequences for all of us and you’re now seeing yours.


Yep. Leave her alone. Let her know that you’ll do whatever it is that she needs, and then leave her be. Begging and pleading is only going to disgust her that much more. You show her way more respect by giving her the space she needs. If she files for divorce, agree to what she wants, it’s the very least you can do. I hope you are able to find a professional to talk to, your kids need you even though they are grown. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP you have already devastated your family through your selfish choices, don't make it 100 x worse by taking your life. That would be an incredibly selfish thing to do. All you would be doing is transferring your pain to them, and condemning them to a life wracked with guilt.

Man up, own your choices - you did NOT make a mistake, you made a CHOICE and you made it more than once. Own it. As others have said, if she files for divorce, give her whatever she wants, actions have consequences.

As for your children, they are naturally feeling protective of their mother. This is not their fight though, apologise to them, tell them that you know you hurt their mother and that you will do whatever she needs you to do, but remind them that this is between you and their mother.



BluesPower said:


> Just a hint, generally if your girl does not want to perform oral on you, and you are hygienic, she is not into you. And girls just don't please.


This is absolutely NOT TRUE.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

frusdil said:


> BluesPower said:
> 
> 
> > Just a hint, generally if your girl does not want to perform oral on you, and you are hygienic, she is not into you. And girls just don't please.
> ...


Quoted for truth...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I triple the conviction this is not true at all, as I have a dear, best friend who just doesn't do oral, and it's not because she's a stick in the mud--she had a traumatic incident when she was younger and even after going to counseling, she just decided that oral is not for her. She does other stuff happily and willingly...not oral. It's okay for people to have a boundary about what is and is not part of sexual pleasure for them.

Now @ImAnIdiot , you have been given some great advice about suicide. If you are not suicidal, then just don't make that statement lightly. If you are suicidal, call the hotline or go to the ER. I worked the graveyard shift on a hotline and stayed up all night with a couple people to make sure they got what they needed, so calling is a great option. 

So rather than repeat all that great advice, I'm going to just agree with those suggestions and instead focus on some thoughts about your situation. I would like to very gently challenge you to be honest...with yourself and with us. You say that you had a perfect family and a perfect marriage, and yet you not only thought about seeing a prostitute, and you not only went once and then quit, but you went several times, kind of regularly. Thus, SOMETHING was missing--but maybe not from your partner. It may be something missing within you! Something was not all roses and rainbows. And I challenge you to accept that it wasn't "because she wouldn't give you oral"!! That's blameshifting. Be honest with yourself and with us: you had a lot for which you could have been grateful and you wanted more. You wanted it badly enough to take action, over and over. 

@ImAnIdiot , every choice in life has a cost and a benefit. The cost of having a perfect family and a suburban home is that you life honestly and behave faithfully--the benefit is that you have a spouse who is a life partner, children who grow into good adults, and the white picket fence. The cost is high: ONE sexual partner. The benefit is also pretty high. 

The cost of infidelity is obliterating the intimacy of your marriage. Even if you were still civil and pleasant with your family as you cheated, your actions were the equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb on the trust and closeness that IS the intimacy of marriage. With the marriage in smithereens, the family is also often destroyed. And that is the price you pay when you commit adultery. The sooner you accept that the natural consequence of cheating is killing your family, the better, because then you will understand WHY there is no second chance or no way to make it right. What "was" is DEAD and can not be brought back to life. Now infidelity does have a benefit. You got the thrill of the sexuality. You felt "desireable" or sexy. You got to orgasm. Even if you paid for it, I'm sure the professionals did make you feel intoxicated. So you got the benefit--and now you are experiencing the cost. 

Just so you know, I'm not speaking to you from a place of judgement. I was unfaithful myself, and I know the typical thinking pattern of cheaters: "I deserve the change to make up for it. I can't believe I actually have to pay the cost for my choice!" Well, this is a harsh lesson, but it's a lesson nonetheless! All choices have a cost and a benefit. It is right and reasonable for your wife to allow you to actually experience the cost of this choice. I am very sorry that it is a painful cost for you, but I am also deeply sorry that your wife behaved in mostly an honorable way and has to pay the cost of having her entire world smash into dust so small it just can not be rebuilt.

So instead of thinking of yourself, and how much you hurt, and how hard it is for you to lose your family, and YOU, YOU, YOU...I challenge you to walk a mile in your wife's shoes. Think of how hard it is for her to lose her security. Think how hard it is for her to lose the future she thought she had. Think of how she must feel that you were not satisfied with her. Etc. I know these are very, VERY hard sentences to read, but thinking of others rather than yourself is one way you can begin to show compassion.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> From a certain angle this does sound like this may be what the W was looking for.



*Moderator Note and a public warning. *

Making assumptions that OP's wife was somehow waiting for her husband to cheat is not going to help the OP deal with the fallout from HIS infidelity. It's only going to detract and cause side arguments. Stop or risk getting banned.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It's all been said here OP, you really do reap what you sow. However, you must be a father to your children. That will not change. Your wife has every right to divorce you. 
And I do not like your 'name' no you were not an idiot, you knew exactly what you were doing over a protracted period of time, you just thought you would not get caught. 
Saying you were an idiot minimizes the nuclear bomb you have placed in your own life and the life of your family. So the first thing to do is to recognize the severity of what you have done, the damage you have caused, which in all probability will never be healed. Also get over yourself and the 'oh woe is me' syndrome, your selfishness got your here, now it is time to grow up become less selfish and help your family.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

my old college track coach used to say: "distance runners are as tough as a boiled owl!"

well, being 'tough as a boiled owl' isn't just about the lonely physical pain of a long distance runner, but about being tough mentally and enduring the pain and the tough
times we go through even if self inflicted. this is part of being a man with a family too. it's not just you you're living for. you've got to be tough. you've got to endure the pain.
don't ignore it. embrace it. not in the sense that "i love pain", but in the sense that "i screwed up. i caused pain. now iv'e got to be a man and live with it, and come out stronger for it."

this is your first step in becoming that better man. being a real man isn't so much about victory and success. it's about going through the tough times and coming out stronger.
it's less about winning and more about enduring the pain and finishing. in the long run you will become that better man. life isn't a sprint. it's a long distance race.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

ImAnIdiot said:


> As I said, I don't blame her at all. She was raised in a very traditional strict kind of environment, I was her first and she has never, ever performed oral on me, it was not that she was not into me, it's just the way she is. She still loved me up until that point from what she told me, she said that I hurt her so much because I betrayed her total love for me.
> 
> I've been trying to talk to my wife, but couldn't she asked me not to be in the same room with her, and all my kids have been avoiding me, they don't want to talk to me either. Aside from the time doing work (from home), I'm just sitting in the dark with all the guilt, the regrets, the sorrow, just very depressed, the total isolation is driving me crazy that made me just want to end it all. I feel so helpless that my wife and kids are not giving me a chance to make things right.
> 
> But anyway, thanks for all the responses.


So you need to get into IC for yourself -- AND to show your wife that you are serious about doing the work necessary to figure out WHY you did this and prevent it ever happening again.
YOU need to do the work to show her you are remorseful, NOT her. I think a book was mentioned earlier "How to help your spouse heal from an affair". Buy it TODAY and read it. Implement the plans to help HER.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

... not helping ...


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Update:
> I approached my wife, I begged to give me a chance to speak, and she can think about it after.
> I told her that I have thought hard in the last few days and I have realized that I was so blinded by my sexual desire that I completely lost my moral value, my dignity and committed this despicable crime against my marriage and ruined my family. The thought of a divorce and a picture of us living apart is killing me, I can't imagine my life without my wife and kids, I now realize that I love her very much, we've spend over 30 years together and it will be devastated to both of us to throw it away. I understand that she probably would not believe anything I say or promise, but I now have realized that I so much cherish this beautiful family that we've built together, if I can get a second chance, I will devote the rest of my life making it up to her.
> She said the wound I gave her is so deep, she's still in so much pain, she needs to think about it.
> That was all I was hoping for.


You are still in the house and were not totally dismissed.
You have that going for you.
You need to start your quest to be a better person immediately.
Get some appropriate self help books about infidelity. Learn them and implement them.
Make arrangements for therapy. Attend them. Demonstrate what you learn.
Make amends to your family. Demonstrate remorse and show you are worthy of a second chance,
If you are granted a second chance, don't screw up. Not many, get a third.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@ImAnIdiot, 

I would strongly recommend one thing: stop talking. Talk is cheap. SUPER cheap. All your promises up one side and down the other, on someone's grave, on your kids' lives...all of that is worthless now, and I mean it's not worth the hot air you are using to puff across your vocal chords. 

What will carry much, Much, MUCH more weight is real, true action. In other words, don't promise her you'll be a better man, because she married who she thought was a better man and your actions showed her otherwise! So now let your actions begin the process of building all over again. Don't "promise to go to counseling"--stop writing to us and do some research who your insurance covers and who you feel comfortable with, and make an appointment. Then go to the appointment on your own, without her "helping" or "reminding" you, and you do the hard work that the counselor asks of you! Stop avoiding the hard questions. Stop avoiding yourself. Stop minimizing your choices and the damage you did. Just be honest with yourself, work hard on actually being a better man, and do not cover up one, single thing. If she finds even the smallest little thing that you've covered up, you are done for! 

Again, I've been in your shoes and I know how scary it can feel to be that honest. It's like walking in public naked! But she is your life partner and you made a sacred vow to learn to love her (not "to be loved and happy all the time"). If you stop talking and making promises, start ACTING and living in a way that shows growth and learning your lesson, and start opening up and being transparently honest, there is the possibility of a chance. But I would like you to fully and completely grasp this fact: the natural consequence of repeatedly choosing to go to prostititutes and hide it from your wife IS loss of your wife and family. That would be you getting what is warranted for infidelity. If you accept that and begin to understand that you are not "owed" a second chance, you may appreciate it much more deeply.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Op all you can do is start independent therapy and show that you will do what it takes to save the marriage.

There are books on how to help you partner heal after cheating.

Order them and read them.

Ask her what she needs for you.

Write out a timeline of what you did.

Give her all of your accounts and passwords.

Turn on location service on your phone.

Let her know when you leave work or other places.

Ask her to give it a few months to make her decision and you will honor what she decides to do.

She will not believe a word you say. Your actions are going to have to speak for you.

Your wife needs space but you need to be there as well. Make sure she isn’t having to clean up after you. Take on the responsibilities she had around the house So she can do what she needs to to heal.

I would tell your wife to file for divorce if she was on here. For one reason alone, she caught you. You didn’t feel guilty enough to confess what you had done.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I want to point out to you that the Suicide thing is very much the same kind of thinking that led to the prostitute. You need to start living your life with some courage my friend. Not looking for the quick fix to solve your problems. It may be true that your marriage is over but it sure as hell will be and you will destroy your kids if you kill yourself.

Get yourself some counseling. Get the book Surviving Infidelity. Write your wife a timeline of events even if it was just one time. Write your wife a true letter of apology that doesn't say anything about where she didn't give you want you felt entitled to or that you want to stay together. Just that you are sorry period. I did this and I am sorry. Fall on your sword so to speak. Don't expect to stay married but you still have to be a good father and man in this world. Work on that, and maybe your wife will see the difference and give you a second chance but even if she doesn't if you have truly learned your lesson everyone is entitled to a second chance in life but it may have to be with someone else.

You need to be brave, this isn't the end of your life, just a hard part of it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you already thinking about how soon you can ask her if she's thought about it? Have you started on that timeline? If not, why not? Just what does 'making it up to her' mean to you? What will it look like?

It's pretty obvious that you just want to rugsweep your five-year lapse of fidelity and promise you won't do it again and live happily ever after. It doesn't work that way. If your wife decides to give you a chance and if you actually do any of the work required to reconcile, it will still take 2-5 years before your marriage actually looks like a marriage. Or, you may put in the work and she still kicks you to the curb. That's your reality. 

BTW, that bid for attention by using the word suicide was pathetic. No way were you contemplating ending your life.

Now, give your wife some damn space!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You used the phrase “it would be devastating to throw it away”... yeah dude, you already threw it away. And if your wife files for divorce...which she should... don’t you DARE throw those words at her. Because you already did that. Divorce is just her taking care of herself and cleaning up the mess that YOU made. You don’t deserve to stay married to her and you should respect whatever decision she comes to. Pull yourself together and fix the relationships with your kids. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

My take away is you need to figure out why you're so selfish. It's all about you.

Fulfilling a sexual desire and damn well knowing you could be risking your marriage and family if busted.

Well now you've been busted and it's ALL about poor you....so much so that you're contemplating doing THE most selfish thing a person could do (killing yourself) because you didn't get what you want??

Nobody put a pistol to your head and made you had kids. Their needs come above yours.

What kind of lesson are you going to be teaching them that when you mess up (or things don't go your way) you KILL YOURSELF???

Do you know that the odds of children who have a parent who commit suicide skyrocket on doing the same thing.

Quit being a damn wimp and face the music.

Your wife feels this way now.
Maybe it works out with her but then again maybe it won't but how the hell would you know if you bring a permanent solution to something that might be short term?

If it doesn't work out well your kids WILL come around at some point and they will need you the rest of their lives for crying out loud!!

Do you want to **** them up even more?

It's one thing having your parents divorce it's EARTH SHATTERING having your dad off himself.

Go get help my friend. 
Your emotions are leading you right now and emotions can (and DO) change all the time. Hell they can change countless times in one day.

Have the guts to see this through.
If not for yourself but for your kids.

I know what I've written is tough to read but you need to hear this.

You WILL get through this and things may play out the way you don't want it to but you'll adjust and life will go on.

Graduations.
Children getting married. 
Walking your daughter down the aisle (if you have a daughter).
Grandchildren. 
Birthdays. 
Christmas. 
Coming to you for advice.

I could go on and on.

Stop being so damn selfish and from here forward do what's in the best interest of your kids (and they NEED their dad) even if they're mad/disappointed in you right now.

They WILL work through it but only if you're around.

Hang in there and I will say a prayer for you!


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## NorseViking (Apr 14, 2018)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I have (or now I should say I've had) a wonderful family that anyone could have dreamt of.
> A wonderful wife of 25 years who has dedicated her entire life to raising her family,
> we have 3 great kids (1 teen & 2 young adults), a beautiful suburban home and very financially stable.
> 
> ...


Honesty is the best option forward.
NO LIES, TRICKLE TRUTH or DENIALS! EVER!
100% pure raw honesty!

She will suffer a lot, be there for her. 
Comfort her. 
Apologize every day, many times a day.
Offer to move out, if necessary.
Sleep in the guestroom, or on the couch.
Test yourself for STIs/STDs ASAP.

Your wife will face depression, PTSD, pain, agony, rage, bitterness, sadness, low self esteem, suicide thoughts, hate.
Kids will most likely hate you if they find the truth.
She will not eat and sleep well.
She will lash out on you.

Good luck...
Stay strong...


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## CupCake522 (Mar 24, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I have (or now I should say I've had) a wonderful family that anyone could have dreamt of. A wonderful wife of 25 years who has dedicated her entire life to raising her family, we have 3 great kids (1 teen & 2 young adults), a beautiful suburban home and very financially stable.
> 
> My wife is a beautiful woman, smart, witty, and talented in almost everything (fashion, cooking, gardening, singing, dancing, even minor household repairs), she worked hard all the time but somehow still managed to maintain a beautiful home.
> 
> ...


 Please seek help by seeing a therapist and family counseling , you are worth living and the world is a better place with you in it . Everyone makes mistakes and have flaws you have own your mistake but you must give yourself and your wife and family time to heal , adjust to this information . You and your family can benefit with assistance from a therapist I wish you and your family the best .


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Get a counselor right away. Keep going even if your wife does decide to divorce you.

You have to understand that your choice to see prostitutes is selfish. Your choice to threaten suicide, even if you were being honest, is selfish. Begging your wife for a second chance is selfish. You're still operating under the same selfish mindset that got you into this mess. 

You have to start putting your wife and kids first. That means getting help for yourself and learning to focus on your kids no matter what happens in your marriage. That means calmly accepting your wife's choice if she chooses divorce and not trying to manipulate her with threats and complaints about her not giving you another chance like you just did. She does not owe you a second chance. She does not owe you any more time just because she spent 30 years with you. Clearly that didn't work out so well for her. Your best bet is becoming someone she wants to give another chance to before she makes her decision and regardless of her decision.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

*Moderator note*

This thread is about helping the OP. @Frithy is entitled to their opinion. This is not the thread to debate whether seeking a prostitute for sex is considered cheating. Debate this topic on a new thread.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Stop playing the victim. You cheated, not only once. If oral sex was so important to you, more than having e everything else, then you should have left her. You have to understand her, she can’t forgive you that easy even if she still loves you, not right now. Give her time and learn from your mistake. Be better for you kuds, for yourself.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, maybe it is a cultural difference. (I don't know what the flag on your profile represents).
> 
> Here in the UK, I have known a marriage ended because the man got a lap-dance. Once.


Chinese flag?


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## Frithy (May 6, 2020)

Yeah, I think this thread is being diverted. My advice is this: OP, stop crying. Stop begging. If you love your wife, go after her. When you get to her, don't make up excuses and whine about what you have done. You did it because you wanted to. Crying about how bad you feel for having done so will probably make her hate you even more. You can apologize for hurting her, but don't pretend like you were not in control of your actions. Be a man. Say "Yeah, I went to prostitutes because I am horny and love blow jobs. I knew all along that it would hurt you, but I did it anyway. It's a terrible thing that I am so selfish, but it seems I am. Having now lost you, I feel full of pain. I feel so much pain that I would definitely never go to another prostitute again if you can come back to me. So, this is what I have to say. I am hoping you can see past this thing and find me in your heart, because you have always been here in mine."

And then don't try to be a cool guy and walk away. Stay there till she can decide on whether she wants to forgive you. I think it helps a lot to be visible when a woman is angry at you. But you need to be presenting your best side, not the side you've shown here.

So yeah, my advice in a nutshell: Take responsible and own up to the fact that you did what you did and loved every minute of it. At the same time, let your wife know that you really love her and that your love for her is much stronger than anything else. Tell her you just thought you could get away with it and have a little fun on the side, but you are caught and, now that you are facing the music, wouldn't risk losing her by doing something like this again. You're just some horny guy, but you do love her.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

frusdil said:


> OP you have already devastated your family through your selfish choices, don't make it 100 x worse by taking your life. That would be an incredibly selfish thing to do. All you would be doing is transferring your pain to them, and condemning them to a life wracked with guilt.
> 
> Man up, own your choices - you did NOT make a mistake, you made a CHOICE and you made it more than once. Own it. As others have said, if she files for divorce, give her whatever she wants, actions have consequences.
> 
> ...


I so agree with you about that last quote.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You have made a choice time after time after time for several years to cheat on your wife. I have no idea why you would think that your wife could possibly ever trust you again or have any respect for you. As for taking your life, you have devastated your family once and now you say you want to do it again? How completely selfish. Start thinking of them and not yourself. 
If you are completely repentant then do what you wife wants. If possible move out to give them all space and accept that she will almost certainly want to end the marriage. If you make the effort for enough time, you may be able to rebuild some sort of relationship with the children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Frithy said:


> I think I just didn't understand it in your country's context. Where I live, many men go to prostitutes. Their wives know and no one really thinks much of it. Actually, I have friends from all over the world and most of them also have this in their cultures. I have friends from Russia, Ukraine, Pakistan, Morocco, all over. My Russian friend told me when he lived in Australia, they would go get oral sex every day during lunch. Personally, I don't have such a strong sex drive and find the idea of these women a bit gross. However, I have never considered my friends to be cheating on their wives with their actions. Also, so long as it does not become a problem, their wives' don't seem to care too much either. Even my own wife knows I have gone with friends to the brothels and she has never been upset about it.
> 
> -edit for clarity, I went and had massages while my friends took advantage of the other offerings. I've never slept with these prostitutes. I have no interest in this.-
> 
> Casual sex between a married man and some random woman is very different than casual sex between a married woman and some random man. It's evolutionary. Men provide protection and resources, women provide exclusive access to their wombs. This is the deal of the sexes. Many women would be angry with a man that didn't want a job, but far less men would be upset about a woman that wanted to stay at home. But, again, this may be cultural. I'm thinking you have a different idea of what the relationship between a man and a woman is. I don't think we should discuss this here. I have said what I had to say and will say no more in the OPs thread.


*This is a second moderator warning.

The moderator Lila already posted a warning about continuing this thread jack. If you want to discuss whether or not using prostitutes is adultery, please start a thread on the topic. This this is for giving direct support to the OP, @ ImAnIdiot.

If you continue to ignore moderator warnings you just might receive a few days ban so you can contemplate how to pay attention to moderator warning and follow forum rules.

{Speaking as a moderator - EleGirl}*


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

*Moderator Note #2:*

I undeleted and moved all of the off-topic posts to a new home - Visiting a sex worker - cheating on a spouse or not?

If you'd like to discuss whether visiting is a sex worker is considered cheating, please go there.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

Openminded said:


> Chinese flag?


Canadian.....


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

People (rolleyes) It is the flag of China, but Frithy already said he goes to torrents so just by deduction, I suspect he may use a VPN or TOR to disguise his location. It's not so much sneaky as a way to remain private: you log in--it bounces you to any number of different countries--it looks like you're logging in from Carjackistan. 

Now...back on topic, hey?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Frithy said:


> Yeah, I think this thread is being diverted. My advice is this: OP, stop crying. Stop begging. If you love your wife, go after her. When you get to her, don't make up excuses and whine about what you have done. You did it because you wanted to. Crying about how bad you feel for having done so will probably make her hate you even more. You can apologize for hurting her, but don't pretend like you were not in control of your actions. Be a man. Say "Yeah, I went to prostitutes because I am horny and love blow jobs. I knew all along that it would hurt you, but I did it anyway. It's a terrible thing that I am so selfish, but it seems I am. Having now lost you, I feel full of pain. I feel so much pain that I would definitely never go to another prostitute again if you can come back to me. So, this is what I have to say. I am hoping you can see past this thing and find me in your heart, because you have always been here in mine."
> 
> And then don't try to be a cool guy and walk away. Stay there till she can decide on whether she wants to forgive you. I think it helps a lot to be visible when a woman is angry at you. But you need to be presenting your best side, not the side you've shown here.
> 
> So yeah, my advice in a nutshell: Take responsible and own up to the fact that you did what you did and loved every minute of it. At the same time, let your wife know that you really love her and that your love for her is much stronger than anything else. Tell her you just thought you could get away with it and have a little fun on the side, but you are caught and, now that you are facing the music, wouldn't risk losing her by doing something like this again. You're just some horny guy, but you do love her.


For a prostitution apologist this really isn't bad advice. Maybe not in such stark terms, maybe a little more contrite and humble but it's a good thing to be honest and not make excuses. The truth is you did it because you wanted to get off. Your wife knows this so crying and making excuses isn't going to work. It's your wife's call if you are worth it.

I wouldn't tell her you loved every minute of it though. Try to respect the pain it has caused her and will always cause her to some extent.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

3 posts by the OP and 45 by others. His last post seemed to indicate his wife opened the door a crack and thats all he wanted. He probably got what he came for


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

I recommend the Linda McDonald book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair.

It's the best one I've seen for the cheating spouse to read.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

...not helping...


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

When she asks those questions, be honest. Everytime, every bit of information. Do not leave anything out. No matter how many times she asks, no matter if she gets angry, sad or anything else, answer truthfully. And forget couples therapy at this point. Individual therapy for you should be step 1. She didn't F this up, you did.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Thanks to all the advises, I found some were very helpful, helped me understand what I should be doing and provided great encouragement for me to cope with it; however I must admit a couple of messages were a bit brutal which I don't think was much help (don't kick people when they're already down on the floor where they couldn't go any lower).
> After 2 days of silence, we started communicating. At first, just her running in screaming, yelling then crying and left; after several times of this, we started talking, and talking, hours of talking. A lot of why? where? how?... On one hand, I felt horrible with great remorse to watch her going through all kinds of emotions during our conversations, but at the same time I felt a great relief that she was able to get everything off her chest instead of holding it in.
> 2 nights ago, I couldn't sleep, I think I had some kind of anxiety attack, I couldn't breathe, my heart felt tight. I wanted to see my wife so badly I went to our bedroom just to watch her sleep for a few minutes. I realized how I blinded I was, didn't realize until now that my true happiness is everything in this home. After about an hour, I got really tired and I was about to leave, my wife suddenly woke up, she asked what I was doing there, so I told her and apologized if I woke her up. She slowly moved over to her side of the bed and told me that I could lay down for a few minutes rest if I want. We talked a lot that night, then the next day all day. Last night, we did the same, lie quietly besides each other for awhile, then talking, and eventually fell asleep.
> She was on an emotional roller coaster all day in the last couple of days, some time extremely mad, but no more screaming, just staring angrily a lot of times, some times just locked herself in a room, other times sobbing, and occasionally she hug me tight. She admitted that sometimes she really misses me, but as soon as she recalled the betrayal she just felt hatred. She said she can't forgive and will probably never forget, but she's giving our marriage a 2nd chance primarily because she's extremely concern about our kids and still have some feeling for me.
> I tried to be as supportive as I can, I listened a lot, I answered her every time she asked. I'm not sure if it's part of a healing process or not, but I feel it's not helping, as she kept asking about details of those times I was unfaithful, then got angry after hearing the answers. I've been begging her to come with me to couple therapy but she flatly refused to do it. Not sure what else to do...


That is how things will be for a very long time. It is how the betrayal is processed. It is so new and a shock. She can only process so much information at a time or she will break so she will ask again and again. Sometimes it is that she might stop being able to listen to anything you say after hearing something awful. Sometimes she will ask again to make sure the answers are the same. Answer truthfully each time and without annoyance, no “you already asked me this 100 times!” 

It will take years for her to heal and I hope you have the patience for what is grueling experience for both the WS abs BS, but it is so much worse for the BS. To love and hate someone at the same time is mentally exhausting. When you show your WS anger you get scared you will drive them away. When you show them love you feel like you are betraying yourself and letting them get away with it. It is just truly awful.

I would caution you against recommending couples counseling at this point at all. You would think that most marriage counselors would be well versed in dealing with the aftermath of infidelity but most are clueless and cause more harm than good to a new BS. YOU go get counseling for you, by yourself. It will show her you are serious about changing.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Healing from infidelity takes 2-5 YEARS. You haven't even scratched the surface. I'm 18 months into it and it's still a ****fest. So if you are in this for the long haul then buckle up, it's going to be a rough and bumpy ride that you will be begging to jump off at times.

Do you know why your wife comes to you then pushes you away? Because the ONE person she wants to be there for her and support her, is the one who hurt her and destroyed her world. It's very tough and mentally exhausting when the person you want is the person who hurt you.

You need to STOP asking your wife to go to marriage counseling. That is NOT what you need right now. You need to do individual counseling for a LONG time before MC is a good idea. You need to get to the bottom of why you did what you did, and fix those issues before you will be a safe partner. So, instead start searching for a good IC, and recommend she does the same. It would be good for her to have an IC so she can decide what questions she _needs_ answers too and which are just for self-torture.

You need to keep telling her the answers and you need to be 100% honest. If she asks the same question 100 times, answer it every time. Do not leave any bits out to try and protect her, trust me it will do the opposite.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@ImAnIdiot

I realize that you think you are the one who is "down" but we are hoping to wake you up to reality rather than minimizing and euphamisms. Okay? Remember...I was where you are and I don't judge you, yet I also don't make the words softer because the damage that was done was NOT SOFT. I don't want you to fall into thinking from the point of view of yourself and you and what you need, because that is the kind of thinking that got you here. In order to heal and do better, your way of thinking about marriage has to change. So I do get it--it sounds harsh, but sometimes reality is HARSH!

Next, I have some good resources for you. This first one is a PDF very short booklet to help you understand what your wife is going through: https://www.emotionalaffair.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Understanding-Your-Betrayed-Spouse.pdf . The second one is on my own blog and it lines out things that the cheating spouse can do to help their spouse and their marriage: What the Disloyal Spouse Can Do to Save Their Marriage

P.S. to add: There is a reason why she asks you the same questions over and over and over again. I use the example of a puzzle to explain it. Envision a 1000 piece puzzle and the image on the puzzle is one of you cheating on your wife--literally a picture of that. Now, YOU have all the pieces and you know that when the pieces are put together, the image will be you cheating! But your wife DID NOT have all the pieces and was not sure what the image was going to be. She maybe had the straight edges of the puzzle to frame in the image, and she had some pieces that were making an image that she THOUGHT was the image... but then she found several pieces that she knew where NOT part of the puzzle she had in mind!!! Now she is frantically trying to put the puzzle together and each time she asks she's getting another piece of the puzzle and seeing the image more and more clearly. If you hide the image from her, she will be gone--it's as easy as that. If she gets all the puzzle pieces she needs and sees the image clearly, she may decide to leave too, once she knows what she's dealing with. But right now, she asks over and over because she is gathering puzzle pieces. Do not hide them from her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My advice? Get used to the questions. The same ones over and over and over — maybe for years. And get used to the anger. She’ll be dealing with that for a long time. Maybe she’ll forgive you. Maybe she won’t. At this point, she probably has no idea what the future holds. Even if she does decide to forgive you, she may decide years from now it just doesn’t work. For sure she’ll never again trust you 100% so be prepared for that.

(And, BTW, when you throw out your problems on a public forum? Be prepared to hear it all.)


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

...not helping...


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Talk about a roller coaster ride!
> First, when she found out, all she wanted was a divorce. Then after a week of emotions and countless hours of talking, she decided to give our marriage another chance. This evening she suddenly started asking more detail questions about the various times I betrayed her, and at the end of the night she said she was so disgusted she can't forgive me, we're done, but further told me that if I sincerely want to show my remorse, then sign the divorce papers agreeing to walk out with nothing (leaving all assets worth about 2Mil to her). I'm dumbfounded, I don't know what to think anymore.


First off, welcome to the rollercoaster. Who knows if she's being serious or not. She probably doesn't even know. IMO, it is far, far too early for her to be making decisions either way. I cannot tell you how many times I went back and forth and told my wife we were divorcing, and each time I was so sure. We're 18 months in and I feel like I'm about to walk out the door, for the thousandth time.

Right now, give her space and leave her alone. If she decides to divorce, then give her that. You did this to yourself.

Second, your wife is probably reaching if she thinks you would walk away with nothing. I assume you are in Canada, based on your flag. They divide marital property evenly and no judge will let one spouse walk away with nothing. Postnups with infidelity clauses are generally not enforceable because Canada has no fault divorce.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@ImAnIdiot sorry if you feel some of us are harsh but you are the one who has to suck it up and realise that you caused the damage, now you have to go through the process if you have a remote possibility of saving this marriage. You think that her asking so many questions is not a good thing, probably because it picks at the wound which is also very uncomfortable for you too. But you have to consider this, is your discomfort more important than her pain at this betrayal? If you want to save this, then your discomfort at the harsh realities of the fall out should not be a priority to you cause it shows that it is still about you.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

You are still thinking about YOU and how all this is affecting YOU


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I'm dumbfounded, I don't know what to think anymore


If you would be able to arrange couples counseling, then you assuredly would be able to arrange individual counseling. It will help you to navigate this apocalypse. 

You can not rugsweep this! You must get with the program and start work on yourself. 

FTR, any marriage counselor worth their salt would not shame, guilt or twist your wife's arm into giving you a second chance. They will not be your savior. Marriage counseling is for people who want to work on their marriage - your wife doesn't know if she wants to at this time. Her agreeing to it would give you some hope and allow you to believe that the worst is over and you won't have to dig deep into yourself. In short, you're looking to skate.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I'm not sure if it's part of a healing process or not, but I feel it's not helping, as she kept asking about details of those times I was unfaithful, then got angry after hearing the answers.


You don't get to decide whether it's helping her to hear the truth. That's not YOUR decision to make.

Your wife doesn't really understand what remorse is, that much is evident. *True *remorse isn't shown by willingly handing over all your assets to someone. Actually *true* remorse is about as rare as hair on a bullfrog. Most cheaters just seem to show *regret *at getting caught, and most will try to get back into their betrayed spouse's good graces by doing things for their spouse (cleaning the house more, being more of an involved parent, taking their betrayed spouse out on dates, etc. etc.) But those things are really just acts of contrition so to speak, they're NOT signs of that elusive thing called remorse.

Your wife is simply saying, "PROVE" that you love her and you're really sorry by giving her every cent you've got. LOL. Well played, betrayed wife.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

secretsheriff said:


> You are still thinking about YOU and how all this is affecting YOU


Yeah...I see a lot of me, me, me in your posts, which is consistent with how you've behaved.

Try focusing on what your wife actually needs from you, and forget about marriage counseling. Marriage counseling for a cheater is just a way to ******** and deflect blame....individual counseling to get into why oral sex was worth wrecking your marriage was worth it. Admittedly if she hadn't caught you then you'd still be doing it; that says you're not particularly remorseful for your actions....only that you got caught and might lose the marriage. Me, me, me.

If you want any chance to save this the focus is going to have to be in your wife and her needs, not you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> ..individual counseling to get into why oral sex was worth wrecking your marriage was worth it. Admittedly if she hadn't caught you then you'd still be doing it; that says you're not particularly remorseful for your actions....only that you got caught and might lose the marriage. Me, me, me.


This is spot on. This is going to require a lot of looking deeply at yourself and facing just how disgusting your actions were in order to figure out your WHY. You’re lucky that woman even talks to you. And if she still wants that divorce by all means give it to her. Even if that happens, keep working on yourself, I’m sure this isn’t who you want to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

...not helping...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I've been reading a lot about recovering from infidelity and it seems that everything she's doing is identified by a lot of therapists as things to avoid as they're unhealthy for recovery.


Say what? The things your W are doing are unhealthy for recovery? It may be best to allow you W to process this as she sees fit.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> it seems that everything she's doing is identified by a lot of therapists as things to avoid as they're unhealthy for recovery.


Recovery for your wife or recovery for the marriage?


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

ImAnIdiot said:


> When I was still lost in my fantasy world, I already looked it up and aware about Canadian's "no fault" divorce.
> However I realize now that nothing really means anything to me any more without my family, so I don't care about it. I'm willing to give it all away to have my family back so I'm agreeing to everything she asked.
> I deserve this, my only worry is my wife refusing therapy. I've been reading a lot about recovering from infidelity and it seems that everything she's doing is identified by a lot of therapists as things to avoid as they're unhealthy for recovery.


Again, you don't get to decide. Period. YOU get to humble yourself and tell her whatever she wants to know.

Stop trying to control her response and the outcome.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I deserve this, my only worry is my wife refusing therapy. I've been reading a lot about recovering from infidelity and it seems that everything she's doing is identified by a lot of therapists as things to avoid as they're unhealthy for recovery.


What is she doing that is unhealthy for recovery?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

ImAnIdiot said:


> She said she can't forgive and will probably never forget, but she's giving our marriage a 2nd chance primarily because she's extremely concern about our kids and still have some feeling for me.
> I tried to be as supportive as I can, I listened a lot, I answered her every time she asked. I'm not sure if it's part of a healing process or not, but I feel it's not helping, as she kept asking about details of those times I was unfaithful, then got angry after hearing the answers. I've been begging her to come with me to couple therapy but she flatly refused to do it. Not sure what else to do...


She is willing to give you a second chance.
That's about the best that you can ask for at this point.
You need to do everything that she asks you to.
She knows what she needs, you don't.
It is still very fresh for her and it has shaken her to her core to be betrayed in this manner.
She will never forget. Over time (if you do everything right) she will probably forgive.
She may not do it for you. She may do it for the kids, or she may just do it as a means to clear her plate of the trauma.
The best you can do at this point is be there for her when she needs you, be scarce when she doesn't want you around, be a good dad, and above all, correct your malfunction(s) and learn to be a better person.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> What is she doing that is unhealthy for recovery?


Here are just some of the examples:

She asked: what were all positions where she gave you a bj? were you standing? sitting? laying down? while pointing at the illustrations. Well, I was going to say "please don't do this, it's irrelevant how, it was a horrible thing I did but please don't dig in", but I listened to everyone here and truthfully pointed out at the laying and sitting poses. From that point on, she wouldn't let me go back into our bedroom, after the 2 nights she let me lay down in our bed besides her it's now changed, she said when I lay down she kept picturing that pose I pointed out, and she won't be able to look at me in bed again. Another time when we were were at sitting down at dinner she suddenly stood up the threw her plate into the sink, turned to me and said she was disgusted because when I'm sitting there eating all she saw was that image of me getting a bj from a hooker while sitting. I don't know much about therapy, but I tend to agree with those advises I read online about digging into the details to paint images don't help!
She asked me to describe every little detail from one of the encounter, and again I really didn't want to, but as you all advice to tell her everything, so I did. She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.
There were some other things she was asking in the last 2 days. The bottom line is, I see us going backward, at the end of last week, we were progressing well, family getting back to the dinner table, we talked about other things, the news, etc. we were back sleeping in the same bed, she looked like she slept well when I put my arm around her to comfort her. But now it's back to the worst time after she asked all those questions, she's been looking at me with furious eyes, she hates everything about me, I kept having to avoid her. We stopped having family meal once again, kids just lock themselves in their rooms once again like the first 2 days. 
One step forward, 10 steps back. I begged her to see the Therapist that I just started talking to (just 1 online session so far), but she said "they only tell me to forgive and forget. If you can find a therapist who can tell me how to get the best revenge that hurt you the most, then I'll talk to that person".
Another thing that I think is very unhealthy, when I begged her not to dig into the painful details because what's done is done, she said: "don't tell me not to dig, I want to dig. What if I go and have an affair now, are you going to be able to forgive and forget?", all I could do was to apologize for what I did and avoided answering that question, but she kept on insisting for me to answer. It's damn if I say yes and damn if I say no! After hearing it for the 10th times, I gave up and said "Please go do it to get even, if you think that makes you feel better".
I kept getting criticisms about me being selfish, I've taken it all in, and I'm giving her everything she wants, but I don't see it's helping her and so far I see things getting worse and worse, not better....


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

Answer every question. The end


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

You are 9n a roller coaster that YOU built and she now controls. You don't get to complain about it or tell her what to do.

You will go forward, backward, and side to side. Your wife is devastated and grieving. You don't get to control or dictate the process.

Get used to humility.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.



I'll agree with you on this OP, that is sick.
However, by next week she will have forgotten that she said that.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're lucky in that her anger is kicking in now and not six months from now when you'd think everything was coming along nicely. 

What part of 2-5 years do you not understand? You have to accept that your life is going to be a living hell until your wife comes to grips with the extent of this devastation. And, the only way she can do that is to ask questions, make hurtful comments and work through the details. She does not have the right to demand to see a performance. 

You had no problem thinking of divorcing your wife because of the lack of blowjobs by her. You had no problem endangering your wife's health by having sex with her after seeing prostitutes. The least you can do is help her work through this storm and stop whining about how long it is taking and how her questions are not - wah, wah - helping. Get yourself into counseling.

BTW, it was a mistake on your wife's part to take pity on you and let you return to the marriage bed. That was a crap move on your part. But, then again, it's all about you, isn't it?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You never really know how someone will react after they’ve been betrayed. Now you do. The two of you will either work it out or you won’t but I can tell you from experience it’s a very tough process so you’ll need to get used to it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Again — this process takes YEARS to get through and even then some R’s fail.

This is about whatever it takes for her to decide if she really does want to be with you. Most women would have already kicked you to the curb.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

you are wanting to get through this too quickly. you are hoping things will return to their pre-cheating bliss sometime soon. this will not happen.
2 steps forwards, ten steps back? you bet! and then some. 

you are on the edge right now. she is this close to throwing in the towel. you've got to be careful and stop expecting things to return to normal.

you really want to save your family? you've got a slight chance. remember, this is not a sprint but a long distance race. 
that means slow down and picking the right pace will be the difference between saving your marriage and not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Here are just some of the examples:
> 
> She asked: what were all positions where she gave you a bj? were you standing? sitting? laying down? while pointing at the illustrations. Well, I was going to say "please don't do this, it's irrelevant how, it was a horrible thing I did but please don't dig in", but I listened to everyone here and truthfully pointed out at the laying and sitting poses. From that point on, she wouldn't let me go back into our bedroom, after the 2 nights she let me lay down in our bed besides her it's now changed, she said when I lay down she kept picturing that pose I pointed out, and she won't be able to look at me in bed again. Another time when we were were at sitting down at dinner she suddenly stood up the threw her plate into the sink, turned to me and said she was disgusted because when I'm sitting there eating all she saw was that image of me getting a bj from a hooker while sitting. I don't know much about therapy, but I tend to agree with those advises I read online about digging into the details to paint images don't help!
> She asked me to describe every little detail from one of the encounter, and again I really didn't want to, but as you all advice to tell her everything, so I did. She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.
> ...


Normal.

It’s not up to you to decide what is healthy for her and what isn’t.

Answer. Every. ****ing. Question.

You’re not actually worried about it being unhealthy for her. You’re actually worried about having to admit what happened and have her leave you as a consequence. 

Instead of telling her it’s unhealthy, tell her that. Because it’s the truth. And continue to answer every question without hesitation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Here are just some of the examples:
> 
> She asked: what were all positions where she gave you a bj? were you standing? sitting? laying down? while pointing at the illustrations. Well, I was going to say "please don't do this, it's irrelevant how, it was a horrible thing I did but please don't dig in", but I listened to everyone here and truthfully pointed out at the laying and sitting poses. From that point on, she wouldn't let me go back into our bedroom, after the 2 nights she let me lay down in our bed besides her it's now changed, she said when I lay down she kept picturing that pose I pointed out, and she won't be able to look at me in bed again. Another time when we were were at sitting down at dinner she suddenly stood up the threw her plate into the sink, turned to me and said she was disgusted because when I'm sitting there eating all she saw was that image of me getting a bj from a hooker while sitting. I don't know much about therapy, but I tend to agree with those advises I read online about digging into the details to paint images don't help!
> She asked me to describe every little detail from one of the encounter, and again I really didn't want to, but as you all advice to tell her everything, so I did. She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.
> ...


I agree that it would be better if she did not ask those types of questions. I never did because to they they are irrelevant. I could care less about those details. The fact that he cheated and the things I read in his communications with her are all I need to know. The betrayal, not the minute details are what's important to me.

A lot of people want all the details. And you need to patiently answer her questions over and over and over. She will eventually stop asking. Each person has their own timeline to heal. Keep in mind that she might end up not wanting to stay married to you. That is a reality you need to face.

That said, she needs to stop her antics that are causing the children problems. It's one thing for her to be upset. It's quite another for her to be putting how freak-out shows that end up hurting your children. This is something you should talk with her about.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ImAnIdiot said:


> She asked me to describe every little detail from one of the encounter, and again I really didn't want to, but as you all advice to tell her everything, so I did. *She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. * I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.




You are right to refuse to do this. It sounds like she is trying to get a rise out of you.

While I do believe that she should be able to ask for any detail and you need to answer them, there is a limit. What I mean by a limit is that if she wants to recover the marriage, then she need to make it safe for you to answer her questions and express her hurt and anger.

Acting out when the children are present is making it very unsafe for you and most importantly for the children. 

If she makes demands like this pushes for you to do this over time, then she's definitely making it unsafe for you to answer her questions.

Also, she cannot legally kick you out of the house.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

> Acting out when the children are present is making it very unsafe for you and most importantly for the children.


This is definitely true. Damaging the children with rages is NOT okay.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Here are just some of the examples:
> 
> She asked: what were all positions where she gave you a bj? were you standing? sitting? laying down? while pointing at the illustrations. Well, I was going to say "please don't do this, it's irrelevant how, it was a horrible thing I did but please don't dig in", but I listened to everyone here and truthfully pointed out at the laying and sitting poses. From that point on, she wouldn't let me go back into our bedroom, after the 2 nights she let me lay down in our bed besides her it's now changed, she said when I lay down she kept picturing that pose I pointed out, and she won't be able to look at me in bed again. Another time when we were were at sitting down at dinner she suddenly stood up the threw her plate into the sink, turned to me and said she was disgusted because when I'm sitting there eating all she saw was that image of me getting a bj from a hooker while sitting. I don't know much about therapy, but I tend to agree with those advises I read online about digging into the details to paint images don't help!
> She asked me to describe every little detail from one of the encounter, and again I really didn't want to, but as you all advice to tell her everything, so I did. She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.
> ...


Sorry, but this is all totally normal. It NEEDS to sink in that reconciliation takes 2-5 YEARS. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. YEARS. This will be your life for a long, long time. You could go months or years into reconciliation, finally feel safe, and your wife could leave you. She has that right and quite frankly, you did this to yourself. 

If you want to reconcile with your wife then you need to buckle up and deal with all the **** she throws your way, with the knowledge that at any point she could say "you know what, I won't accept this" and give you divorce papers. 

My wife's affairs started coming to light 18 months ago and I went back and forth constantly on R or D. I still go back and forth all the time. I've put her through absolute hell and she's stuck around for it, but for a little while now I've felt done and have been thinking about separating. There are no guarantees. Your wife can say "screw it" at any point. 

Your wife is saying irrational things because of how badly YOU devastated her and crushed her world. You did this to her. It is a totally normal reaction, but no, do not book that appointment. She will stop requesting that in time. 

All of those questions she is asking you are TOTALLY normal. This is where it would be good for her to have an IC, because they would help her decide what she does and does not need to know. 

After my wife's affairs came out, I asked her the typical penis size questions. Then when her response was "his **** is pretty much the exact same as yours", I took it further and asked for specifics on it. So I could sit here and tell you all about his freckled-covered **** and which way it curves. Ideal? Nope and those images don't go away easily, but it's normal to ask. 

Your wife will need an IC to help her deal with the images, which again, are totally normal. I've been doing this for 18 months and about two weeks ago I was sitting on the couch having a snack and watching something funny, and all of a sudden out of nowhere I had those images and feelings pop back up. The other day we were in the car, she frustrated me and out of nowhere I blurted out something like "why don't you go **** so-and-so again". That's 18 months in, you're only DAYS in. Buckle the **** up. 

It gets better, but it's a VERY slow and may never fully go away. Certain types of therapy can help a lot, but that is for HER, not for your marriage. It will help your marriage, if it survives, but she needs to take care of her first. 

You NEED to get into IC. No excuses. MC needs to wait until you are both two healthy people who have decided to attempt reconciliation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You are right to refuse to do this. It sounds like she is trying to get a rise out of you.
> 
> While I do believe that she should be able to ask for any detail and you need to answer them, there is a limit. What I mean by a limit is that if she wants to recover the marriage, then she need to make it safe for you to answer her questions and express her hurt and anger.
> 
> ...


I was thinking she may need an assessment soon.

Her behavior goes beyond any reasonable anger and is going to destroy her family more thoroughly than his infidelity.

She is causing harm to the children to be talking like a fool in front of them.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I was thinking she may need an assessment soon.
> 
> Her behavior goes beyond any reasonable anger and is going to destroy her family more thoroughly than his infidelity.
> 
> She is causing harm to the children to be talking like a fool in front of them.


I think that it would be good for her to talk to someone.

However I also think that I'd be acting out if my spouse did what he did, and to expect otherwise would be not realistic. The response to infidelity is a trauma response, and she's reacting to that trauma in similar ways that someone that has been traumatized in other ways.

And let's not forget that the trigger for that trauma was his behaviour. She's reacting and needs to learn to respond instead, but this is really very little different than reeling from an unexpected gut punch. You hit the ground, you're shocked, then you're angry, then you punch back, then you're afraid, then you brace to be hit again...

My take: she's attempting to figure out how to stay with him when she knows she probably shouldn't, and it's driving her around the bend. These are all attempts on her side to make sense of her new reality, process it, and regain some agency that has been lost.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> You are right to refuse to do this. It sounds like she is trying to get a rise out of you.
> 
> While I do believe that she should be able to ask for any detail and you need to answer them, there is a limit. What I mean by a limit is that if she wants to recover the marriage, then she need to make it safe for you to answer her questions and express her hurt and anger.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of these points.

You made it clear that you know the extent of what you did. Although it's primarily about what you did to your wife, your actions blew up in your face too. You too are injured, regardless of your doing it to yourself, and you need to regain a semblance of balance before you can do anything for anybody else. That's partly why some of your concerns might come across as self-centered, rather than her-centered.

I disagree with the demand that you give your wife every detail of the prostitute encounters, let alone offering an unrequested full written description of every encounter. That's so incendiary that it should be addressed under the guidance of a counselor. Unfortunately, it's too late now.

I'm reminded of the job advice about not doing anything for 72 hours after being denied a promotion, lest you do something rash in the heat of emotion. This is so much worse, and you and your wife are in that rash period.

I suggest that you stop "begging" her. When you interact with her, do so with due sensitivity to the pain she's in. You hurt her badly, so act with due remorse - constructive remorse. Constructive doesn't mean throwing yourself into the boiling pot and handing her the knob. It's about doing as much as you can to foster healing, whether the outcome is ultimately reconciliation or divorce.

Speaking of divorce, you have the option of filing. You can decide that staying in the marriage isn't right for you after what you did. You don't have to give her everything and leave yourself with nothing. You can of course offer to give more than the courts require, but the bottom line is that she doesn't control everything now. As much as she's hurting, she doesn't get to dictate that your love is defined by you leaving penniless. She gets to decide whether she wants to divorce or pursue reconciliation. She doesn't get to use the prospect of reconciliation to torture you. Even in this situation, there are limits.

You can't erase the past, but only recover from it. Think about how your kids see you get through this disaster. It's about taking one step at a time. Your wife and kids might signal that they've lost trust in your steps, but you can only continue stepping as best as you can.

Contact a counselor asap. Wishing you and yours the best.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I was thinking she may need an assessment soon.
> 
> Her behavior goes beyond any reasonable anger and is going to destroy her family more thoroughly than his infidelity.
> 
> She is causing harm to the children to be talking like a fool in front of them.


Where are you getting this from? Was a post deleted? He says nothing about her doing anything in front of their children (2 adults, 1 teen). He said she threw her plate in the sink when they were eating dinner - they does not imply the kids were even there. And if they were there I don’t think that is beyond reasonable anger. She didn’t smash it on the wall over his head. She didn’t chuck it at his head. Beyond reasonable anger would be to agree to give him that bj he longed for and bite it off.

I don’t think it is wise to suggest to someone that obviously wants to skate on their own behavior that their spouse’s normal reaction to infidelity is abhorrent and causing harm to their family. He will take that and run with it. An assessment, really? She found out less than two weeks ago, give her a freaking break.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Marduk said:


> I think that it would be good for her to talk to someone.
> 
> However I also think that I'd be acting out if my spouse did what he did, and to expect otherwise would be not realistic. The response to infidelity is a trauma response, and she's reacting to that trauma in similar ways that someone that has been traumatized in other ways.
> 
> ...


I've been in the midst, unfortunately, of several situations like this and I understand. She cannot be asking him details or yelling at him to get a prostitute to perform in front of her while the kids can hear.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Bluesclues said:


> Where are you getting this from? Was a post deleted? He says nothing about her doing anything in front of their children (2 adults, 1 teen). He said she threw her plate in the sink when they were eating dinner - they does not imply the kids were even there. And if they were there I don’t think that is beyond reasonable anger. She didn’t smash it on the wall over his head. She didn’t chuck it at his head. Beyond reasonable anger would be to agree to give him that bj he longed for and bite it off.
> 
> I don’t think it is wise to suggest to someone that obviously wants to skate on their own behavior that their spouse’s normal reaction to infidelity is abhorrent and causing harm to their family. He will take that and run with it. An assessment, really? She found out less than two weeks ago, give her a freaking break.


If she is pulling any of this within the hearing of their kids, she needs shutdown yesterday. Maybe the house is empty as she is ranting about wanting to watch him with a prostitute or otherwise freaking out?

I get the emotional mess but you can't let the real bile go in front of your kids.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I would give her a fair divorce and encourage her to get counseling. You all need it.


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## UndecidedinNY (Jul 11, 2013)

I would focus on the kids right now, and your mental state. These are the things that matter most now.

Re: your wife, I would just let it ride and let her make the decision one way or the other, and if she decides to divorce, just keep focusing on the kids and being there for them when they are comfortable with that. I feel for you, because I don't think you asked her for anything unreasonable, and I wouldn't want to go my whole life without os so I think her refusal was unreasonable. It doesn't excuse anything since you got married knowing this, but I don't think she was fair either, so I really feel badly for your situation. I'm not a cheater, but if my spouse said that was forever off the menu as an option, I wouldn't be ok with that either. I would NOT let her use this opportunity to punish you forever, and I'm disappointed she told your kids.

Strict parents isn't an excuse to not EVER consider something with your spouse (my parents don't tell me how to have sex), nor is never having done something before (there is always a first time). If you work things out, it's off the table again forever, and she will keep bringing it up every time she's mad at you, and she can't undo telling your kids, who will always treat you differently. I feel really badly for you.


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## Cherrybomber (Apr 11, 2020)

Sounds like there is both a lot of good advise and a lot of mean & bad advise here. Now maybe this question was already answered but did you know your wife would not perform oral before you were married? I am asking only because perhaps you saw it as something you could overlook. Only to realize it was not and really wanted more intimacy from your spouse. My husband and I are in a similar, yet REVERSE role. He NO LONGER performs oral on me... yet I continue to provide that for him. So, I know how bad it can hurt your feelings and create emotional barriers; even when you dont mean to. Anyhow, did you have sex with the prostitutes or just receive oral ? I hate to say it but coming from a woman, if you only were getting oral, and your wife was not giving any - I kinda cant blame you. If it matters, I am not mad at you. Obviously we know this is wrong on a lot of levels but.... maybe if you and your wife work this out you two can see a sex therapist or something. If its important to you, it should be important to her - end of discussion.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@ImAnIdiot do your two young adult and one teen aged children know about your infidelity? Has your wife exposed it to close family and friends?

I ask this because it sounds like she doesn't have anyone to talk to about this besides you. She needs to lean on her close circle of friends and family for support.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The wife is perfectly within her rights to not perform oral if it is something she hates. OP went into the marriage knowing this, which signals of course that he was able to accept this limitation. If it was really NOT ok, then he willfully entered into this on a false pretense. Wife was honest in her limitation. Going to prostitutes is never an acceptable thing to do in a marriage. Shame on anyone blaming the wife in this. 

Oh and... the “kids” have all rights to know the truth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Op it isn't the details that is sending her into a rage, it's the betrayal. She wants to move on but then can't believe how her perfect world has been shattered by your sexual need. She can't believe the man she loved and gave everything to would blow up her family with a prostitute over and over. And she had to catch you.

If you don't answer the questions with honesty she will sense you are still lying to her and think perhaps you are still betraying her because that is what lying is. If you don't answer the questions she will make up her own version and it won't be a better version. She will picture you in all the positions, she will picture you having all kinds of sex and kissing the other woman while still feeling like you refuse to be honest with her. 

You have given her the worst day of her life. But guess what this kind of betrayal keeps on giving for the next 2 years to 5 years for the rest of her life she will have flashes of your betrayal. When she is least expecting it she will have a mental picture of you getting serviced. And the woman will be young and sexy and everything she isn't and make her insecure. She will question her judgement, if you are gone too long at the store she will question your location. If you have a fight she will question if you are going to go running to your other lover. Her mind is going to **** with her for a long time. You can expect that will be seen and felt by you as well.

This won't be a short or easy road. She will go back she may eventually decide she can't live like this. Even if she moves on she will not ever trust the next man either. You've ****ed her good. Hope the oral was worth it. Next time either have honest conversations with whomever or divorce first, don't do this **** to someone else or to your wife again.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cherrybomber said:


> Sounds like there is both a lot of good advise and a lot of mean & bad advise here. Now maybe this question was already answered but did you know your wife would not perform oral before you were married? I am asking only because perhaps you saw it as something you could overlook. Only to realize it was not and really wanted more intimacy from your spouse. My husband and I are in a similar, yet REVERSE role. He NO LONGER performs oral on me... yet I continue to provide that for him. So, I know how bad it can hurt your feelings and create emotional barriers; even when you dont mean to. Anyhow, did you have sex with the prostitutes or just receive oral ? I hate to say it but coming from a woman, if you only were getting oral, and your wife was not giving any - I kinda cant blame you. If it matters, I am not mad at you. Obviously we know this is wrong on a lot of levels but.... maybe if you and your wife work this out you two can see a sex therapist or something. If its important to you, it should be important to her - end of discussion.


You don't cheat because you aren't getting exactly what you want. You seek resolve within your marriage or you end your marriage. It is just disgusting that a married woman would indicate it is ok to visit a prostitute by a married man. 

OP if you don't like the be honest advice you may not be ready to commit to what it is going to take to ride this wave that you created. You say you'll do anything but will you ride the waves of uncertainty, no sex, anger, grief, anger, insecurity, hostility, anger and self hatred you've created?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The shock of infidelity affects everyone differently. I didn’t want details beyond what I found out on my own (and he likely wouldn’t have given them anyway). But some people do want every last detail. The problem is you can’t unhear those details and then getting rid of the mind movies that goes with that can be a major problem. Shaking my head at the mess cheaters create.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> If she is pulling any of this within the hearing of their kids, she needs shutdown yesterday. Maybe the house is empty as she is ranting about wanting to watch him with a prostitute or otherwise freaking out?
> 
> I get the emotional mess but you can't let the real bile go in front of your kids.


I agree with this. No matter how old the children are, they should not be witnesses to these sorts of outbursts. It's profoundly wrong to do this to the children. 

I've been through finding out about my husband's infidelity with middle school and high school kids living at home. I was angry and went off on him sometimes. But I NEVER did it when the children could hear. Things like this can seriously harm children to include young adults.

She's hurting, sure. But she has to put the children first.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> The wife is perfectly within her rights to not perform oral if it is something she hates. OP went into the marriage knowing this, which signals of course that he was able to accept this limitation. If it was really NOT ok, then he willfully entered into this on a false pretense. Wife was honest in her limitation. Going to prostitutes is never an acceptable thing to do in a marriage. Shame on anyone blaming the wife in this.
> 
> *Oh and... the “kids” have all rights to know the truth.*


The kids have the right to know the truth. But it's not right to have huge ugly outbursts in front of them, ask about positions and demand that he hire a prostitute so she (the wife) can watch him getting bj's from the prostitute.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How exactly did the wife learn of his extracurricular activities?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@ImAnIdiot

One other question.... Did your wife get STD tested after learning of your infidelity? 

I'm going to assume you didn't wear a condom while getting oral from a prostitute and didn't wear a condom while having sex with your wife.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I've been in the midst, unfortunately, of several situations like this and I understand. She cannot be asking him details or yelling at him to get a prostitute to perform in front of her while the kids can hear.


She should not, and I'd be worried about the kids if she did.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if the kids were swept up in her reaction when triggered. And to remember the source of her trauma is his actions.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Marduk said:


> She should not, and I'd be worried about the kids if she did.
> 
> But I also wouldn't be surprised if the kids were swept up in her reaction when triggered. And to remember the source of her trauma is his actions.


I know and I would leave in a heartbeat if she did any of it where the kids can hear. I'd give her a fair divorce and have her evaluated if she had any more outbursts in front of the kids but I'm mostly concerned about the minor still at home.

She can flip out all she needs to but it is on her if she is doing it in front of the kids.

I've told him what I would do a couple times here. They could all use help but him being right there is triggering her and, while it is a normal process, emotionally traumatizing the kids is a no no.

I think he needs to have an out, a place to stay if she starts wigging out around the kids so she can calm down. She does need help regardless of the cause. If she is too messed up to comprehend she might be damaging her kids, someone needs to intervene.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I know and I would leave in a heartbeat if she did any of it where the kids can hear. I'd give her a fair divorce and have her evaluated if she had any more outbursts in front of the kids but I'm mostly concerned about the minor still at home.
> 
> She can flip out all she needs to but it is on her if she is doing it in front of the kids.
> 
> ...



@ConanHub, I'm not sure how much more you can traumatize adult and teenage children after exposing the truth about the OP's infidelity. 

"Kids, your father has been getting his **** sucked by a prostitute every month for the last 3-5 years. He's not only cheated on me but exposed me to STDs."

I'm pretty sure that after hearing that, mom freaking out is the least of the kids worries.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> @ConanHub, I'm not sure how much more you can traumatize adult and teenage children after exposing the truth about the OP's infidelity.
> 
> "Kids, your father has been getting his **** sucked by a prostitute every month for the last 3-5 years. He's not only cheated on me but exposed me to STDs."
> 
> I'm pretty sure that after hearing that, mom freaking out is the least of the kids worries.


Hopefully she didn't lay it on them that way, especially the minor still at home.

Continued ranting will cause more damage.

There is too much research and experience backing what I'm saying.

She needs help as well. Venting the spleen in front of the kids needs to stop yesterday. She can let it go at him or in counseling.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Hopefully she didn't lay it on them that way, especially the minor still at home.
> 
> Continued ranting will cause more damage.
> 
> ...


Fine. 

"Kids, your father has been paying a prostitute to give him oral sex every month for the last 3-5 years. Not only has he cheated on me but he's also exposed me to STDs". 

I do agree that venting to the kids is not the smartest thing to do but at the same time, I don't think her having blowups is unusual or worse than what he's done. 

He seems to be so worried about the emotional toll his wife's ranting is having on the kids but where was all his worry when he was making his monthly appointments (as far back as 2015) to see the prostitute? Sorry, I'm not giving him a pass. 

At the end of the day, the root cause of the trauma that the whole family is suffering (directly and indirectly) is due to the OP's selfishness and very poor choices. There are repercussions to such selfishness and having an angry spouse who says crazy stuff in the heat of anger is one of them, regardless who's around.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> Fine.
> 
> "Kids, your father has been paying a prostitute to give him oral sex every month for the last 3-5 years. Not only has he cheated on me but he's also exposed me to STDs".
> 
> ...


I've said at least twice that I believe he should exit stage left while doing his best to ensure his family is taken care of.

His actions have done the initial, and terrible, damage to his family. He should get out, get help and get his family help as well.

If Mrs. Conan did something this catastrophically stupid, she would get it both barrels from me and a swift divorce to boot but I would not unload on our kids and both are on their own with families.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@ImAnIdiot 

Would you consider giving your wife some space and staying somewhere else for a while since you are triggering her at home?

You could still get together to let her vent, ask questions, etc. but it would be away from the home.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

I don't think kids automatically have a "right" to know about their parents' infidelity, and they certainly don't have a right to details. But because kids at home can't be left without any explanation of why their parents are suddenly having outbursts like nothing the kids have seen from them before, they need to know something. With that in mind, the kids should have been told like this:

_Their father strayed from the marriage over whatever period of time. It was never his intention to leave the marriage or family. It was more like an addiction, but it still did grave damage to his and his wife's relationship. She's not sure what the future holds, but at this point divorce isn't out of the question. Her emotions are still raw, so things will be rough for a while. If the kids start feeling anxiety, depression, or other unhealthy emotions, they should say something. If the parents need to have the kids talk to somebody who can help them process their exposure to this, or if the parents need to make a change in the home, they'll do that._

The point is to minimize the emotional impact to the kids. It should not be about telling the kids for the sake of revenge.

I doubt this is simply about oral sex. I wonder if the OP is presenting it that way because he sees idealizing his wife as the best form of damage control. I'm not suggesting that he's being sly or manipulative, but that it's a natural survival response for many people in a situation like this. I suspect that there are other issues in the marriage that leave him feeling devalued, taken for granted, and maybe even used. The refusal of oral sex might have become to him representative of that larger picture. I'm not trying to shift the blame to the wife, because the bottom line is that the OP shouldn't have addressed the issue how he did. Still, there's a significant difference between somebody just wanting oral sex in the pornographic sense and somebody going down a negative mental path because something was off about the relationship that left him feeling empty or devalued. As horrible as his decision-making was, it doesn't relieve her of all accountability for an attitude that might have precipitated his downward spiral. Of course, this is just a hunch. I'm just saying that I doubt this is as simple as a sexually depraved husband cheating on his ideal wife. It could be the difference between "it's over right now" and "maybe there's something deeper between both of us that might be able to be corrected."


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> @ImAnIdiot
> 
> Would you consider giving your wife some space and staying somewhere else for a while since you are triggering her at home?
> 
> You could still get together to let her vent, ask questions, etc. but it would be away from the home.


My thoughts absolutely. To move out for say 3 months to give her and the children some space is the very least he can do, as she needs time to decide what it is she wants to do going forward. He is causing this mahem by staying there when she is rightly deeply angry and hurt and needs loads of time and space. Its pretty selfish actually to stay. Its also very selfish to be bringing up how his wife is acting, what did he expect?. I also do not accept he is remorseful and loves his wife. For years and years he made that decision countless times to risk his marriage and to risk loosing his family, to infect his wife with STD's, and not once did he stop. Not once did he think twice. He didn't come clean, she had to find out, and had she not, he would still be committing adultery with this women regularly. 
Sorry, this false remorse and 'poor me' at is just pathetic. These are the consequences of long term deliberate adultery.

I think she would be crazy to give him another chance, the trust has shattered. However she may stay for now just to punish him because of his deep betrayal.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> My thoughts absolutely. To move out for say 3 months to give her and the children some space is the very least he can do, as she needs time to decide what it is she wants to do going forward. He is causing this mahem by staying there when she is rightly deeply angry and hurt and needs loads of time and space. Its pretty selfish actually to stay. Its also very selfish to be bringing up how his wife is acting, what did he expect?. I also do not accept he is remorseful and loves his wife. For years and years he made that decision countless times to risk his marriage and to risk loosing his family, to infect his wife with STD's, and not once did he stop. Not once did he think twice. He didn't come clean, she had to find out, and had she not, he would still be committing adultery with this women regularly.
> Sorry, this false remorse and 'poor me' at is just pathetic. These are the consequences of long term deliberate adultery.
> 
> I think she would be crazy to give him another chance, the trust has shattered. However she may stay for now just to punish him because of his deep betrayal.


He is certainly still acting selfishly and doing things from only his feelings as his perspective instead of what is best for his family.

We probably won't see much of him because he is being asked to do what is best for his family instead of his selfish desires.

I'm seeing that he does not seem to care for his family's well being even in light of the destruction he brought to them.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Tdbo said:


> She then said You are a pig, I want you to contact the prostitute and make an appointment, I will pay extra to watch exactly how to you betrayed me with her, and do exactly everything you described. I said "No, I will never do anything to betray you again", she said "I want to see what you did, if you don't do it, then get out of the house right now". I told her I won't do it, but she kept insisting on "you want to save the marriage? DO IT!" It seems to me she wants to end it because I refuse to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She is angry, hurt, desperate and wants to humiliate him the way she feels he has humiliated her. I understand it. She doesn't want him to actually go and be sucked off by a prostitute while she watches. She is in a state of trauma and throwing everything at the OP. Incidentally the OP, you sound a bit clueless and don't have much discretion when you don't understand the nuances of this world or of language. When people on this chat told you to answer everything you took it literally down to even the minute details, you take everything your wife says literally, please use some bloody gumption before causing a **** show on here. You are actually a bit manipulative, I see it in your style of writing. Your wife will say a lot of things. If she says I hope you die, do you take that literally and come on here and garner sympathy, enough already! 

in addition, why has this thread started focusing on the kids and whether they have heard her outbursts or not? Now let's put the blame on the victim time is it? WTF! I don't see any judgement when we have guys on here threatening to beat up OM etc. How many of you actually have kids and know the ins and outs of troubled families? This response is totally out of line and IMO would be totally different if it was a man who was the victim. 

This man who is supposed to love and cherish her went behind her back over a prolonged period of time and put his **** into a prostitute's mouth because he felt entitled to and now he thinks he is still entitled to be married? I even feel sick thinking about it. If my husband did this, I couldn't ever touch him again or let him anywhere near me. None of us can imagine what this poor woman is going through. So please stop with the judgement of the wife! She is an injured tigeress and they bite. OP the sooner you realize the enormity of what you have done the better. In fact, you should live separate from your wife and give her the time and space to think through the shambles of her life. Seeing you every day cannot be easy on her. Do what is right for everyone else not you.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

aine said:


> She is angry, hurt, desperate and wants to humiliate him the way she feels he has humiliated her. I understand it. She doesn't want him to actually go and be sucked off by a prostitute while she watches. She is in a state of trauma and throwing everything at the OP. Incidentally the OP, you sound a bit clueless and don't have much discretion when you don't understand the nuances of this world or of language. When people on this chat told you to answer everything you took it literally down to even the minute details, you take everything your wife says literally, please use some bloody gumption before causing a **** show on here. You are actually a bit manipulative, I see it in your style of writing. Your wife will say a lot of things. If she says I hope you die, do you take that literally and come on here and garner sympathy, enough already!
> 
> in addition, why has this thread started focusing on the kids and whether they have heard her outbursts or not? Now let's put the blame on the victim time is it? WTF! I don't see any judgement when we have guys on here threatening to beat up OM etc. How many of you actually have kids and know the ins and outs of troubled families? This response is totally out of line and IMO would be totally different if it was a man who was the victim.
> 
> This man who is supposed to love and cherish her went behind her back over a prolonged period of time and put his **** into a prostitute's mouth because he felt entitled to and now he thinks he is still entitled to be married? I even feel sick thinking about it. If my husband did this, I couldn't ever touch him again or let him anywhere near me. None of us can imagine what this poor woman is going through. So please stop with the judgement of the wife! She is an injured tigeress and they bite. OP the sooner you realize the enormity of what you have done the better. In fact, you should live separate from your wife and give her the time and space to think through the shambles of her life. Seeing you every day cannot be easy on her. Do what is right for everyone else not you.


Only one question.
Why are you attributing me with the OP's quote? I responded to what the OP said, at the top of the quote. I responded with two lines at the bottom.
I agree she has been hurt and betrayed.
She probably at times doesn't realize what she is saying, thus my comment "...by next week she will have forgotten she said that." Her turning herself into a voyeur will provide her no solace, that is why it is illogical and sick.
I've been very supportive of the wife throughout the thread in multiple posts. As I have said, OP should feel fortunate that she appears willing to try to give him a second chance, she would be justified in kicking him to the curb.
Frankly, I feel that infidelity is the most disrespectful thing that one spouse can do to another. My record of posting on this forum demonstrates that. I resent being portrayed as someone who supports and condones infidelity.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

bobert said:


> al. It NEEDS to sink in that reconciliation takes 2-5 YEARS. N





Tdbo said:


> Only one question.
> Why are you attributing me with the OP's quote? I responded to what the OP said, at the top of the quote. I responded with two lines at the bottom.
> I agree she has been hurt and betrayed.
> She probably at times doesn't realize what she is saying, thus my comment "...by next week she will have forgotten she said that." Her turning herself into a voyeur will provide her no solace, that is why it is illogical and sick.
> ...


@Tdbo, errrr I was not attributing anything to you at all i was just using the quote about what she asked him to do. I was also wondering why the thread started focusing on whether the kids heard the fights or not. My comment was not directed at any specific person, apologies if I offended you in some way.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

I came to this forum for help, about 10% of the posts provided some good suggestions and I appreciate them, the rest were just mostly criticisms.
We live in the society where over 60% of marriages ended in divorce, to me it's taking the easy way out. No doubt many of those divorces are better for both people. However were any of those marriages worth saving? possibly, but it would need tremendous amount of effort to do so.
And then there's me. I've admitted many times that I was an idiot, I cheated on my wife to satisfy meaningless fantasy that brought a major storm into a perfect picture family home, so no need to keep beating up the dead horse.
There's an easy way out: get a divorce, I'm an executive with high income and total assets worth a few mills, I would have a comfortable single life after a divorce. But I don't want it, I want to save this marriage because my wife and I were always good together, I still love her and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. My wife even told me that she knows she won't find anyone who would be her soul mate like I've been. Even though my marriage right now is like a small boat in the Perfect storm at sea, but I'm not giving up because I truly believe it's worth every effort to save. 
I've been reading over and over again all the posts here, most were just the same basically "you're an a**" blah blah with no helpful advise. Almost seem like most people are just here to enjoy the drama on our family's pain and it almost seems to be from reading their posts as if they want me coming back posting in agony that we ended up with the D
I came here for help and sorry to say that I'm very disappointed of the result.
Again, there were a few helpful posts that I appreciate the compassion, the sympathy and the constructive advises. And for others, if you can't post something helpful, please don't make things worse, this forum is supposed to be for helping people, think about that before posting.


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## secretsheriff (May 6, 2020)

In other words, you wanted pity and it didn't work. You want your wife to rig sweep this and get back to normal.

And you're not going to do the personal work necessary to change.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

aine said:


> in addition, why has this thread started focusing on the kids and whether they have heard her outbursts or not? Now let's put the blame on the victim time is it? WTF! I don't see any judgement when we have guys on here threatening to beat up OM etc. How many of you actually have kids and know the ins and outs of troubled families? This response is totally out of line and IMO would be totally different if it was a man who was the victim. *Yeah. You're wrong on a couple points and definitely wrong about me. I am not victim blaming. I am trying to watch out for the kids, especially the minor still trapped at home in this mess. The wife is understandably traumatized but she is inflicting emotional abuse on her kids if she isn't keeping her barbs for her ridiculous husband. I have kids and have been involved on a ministry and professional level with many other families spanning two decades.
> 
> Your sexist assertion is also ridiculous. I would, and have, advised doing the utmost in these situations to prevent as much harm as possible to the children regardless of which sex was betrayed.*
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I came to this forum for help, about 10% of the posts provided some good suggestions and I appreciate them, the rest were just mostly criticisms.
> We live in the society where over 60% of marriages ended in divorce, to me it's taking the easy way out. No doubt many of those divorces are better for both people. However were any of those marriages worth saving? possibly, but it would need tremendous amount of effort to do so.
> And then there's me. I've admitted many times that I was an idiot, I cheated on my wife to satisfy meaningless fantasy that brought a major storm into a perfect picture family home, so no need to keep beating up the dead horse.
> There's an easy way out: get a divorce, I'm an executive with high income and total assets worth a few mills, I would have a comfortable single life after a divorce. But I don't want it, I want to save this marriage because my wife and I were always good together, I still love her and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. My wife even told me that she knows she won't find anyone who would be her soul mate like I've been. Even though my marriage right now is like a small boat in the Perfect storm at sea, but I'm not giving up because I truly believe it's worth every effort to save.
> ...


Have you really looked at yourself beyond calling yourself an idiot?

You are also very self centric and I haven't seen you changing, or working to change your problem.

Have you gotten into counseling?

Have you given your wife space to stop triggering?

Are the kids, especially your minor, being subjected to rants?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

STD testing should have been done already on both of you.

Has that been taken care of?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I came to this forum for help, about 10% of the posts provided some good suggestions and I appreciate them, the rest were just mostly criticisms.
> We live in the society where over 60% of marriages ended in divorce, to me it's taking the easy way out. No doubt many of those divorces are better for both people. However were any of those marriages worth saving? possibly, but it would need tremendous amount of effort to do so.
> And then there's me. I've admitted many times that I was an idiot, I cheated on my wife to satisfy meaningless fantasy that brought a major storm into a perfect picture family home, so no need to keep beating up the dead horse.
> There's an easy way out: get a divorce, I'm an executive with high income and total assets worth a few mills, I would have a comfortable single life after a divorce. But I don't want it, I want to save this marriage because my wife and I were always good together, I still love her and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. My wife even told me that she knows she won't find anyone who would be her soul mate like I've been. Even though my marriage right now is like a small boat in the Perfect storm at sea, but I'm not giving up because I truly believe it's worth every effort to save.
> ...


Drama of your family pain brought on by you. Your efforts with the small boat in a perfect storm just my not survive no matter how much rowing you do. There is no easy answer to these situations. I'm not sure what words you are looking for. The best you can do is be the best you can, allow you W to navigate thought this and learn something about yourself in the process.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I came to this forum for help, about 10% of the posts provided some good suggestions and I appreciate them, the rest were just mostly criticisms.
> We live in the society where over 60% of marriages ended in divorce, to me it's taking the easy way out. No doubt many of those divorces are better for both people. However were any of those marriages worth saving? possibly, but it would need tremendous amount of effort to do so.
> And then there's me. I've admitted many times that I was an idiot, I cheated on my wife to satisfy meaningless fantasy that brought a major storm into a perfect picture family home, so no need to keep beating up the dead horse.
> There's an easy way out: get a divorce, I'm an executive with high income and total assets worth a few mills, I would have a comfortable single life after a divorce. But I don't want it, I want to save this marriage because my wife and I were always good together, I still love her and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. My wife even told me that she knows she won't find anyone who would be her soul mate like I've been. Even though my marriage right now is like a small boat in the Perfect storm at sea, but I'm not giving up because I truly believe it's worth every effort to save.
> ...


I reread this thread, and other than the derailment of the prostitute stuff, you've mostly been getting pretty targeted advice. It just might not be advice you want to hear.

It is typical that most people who cheat focus on themselves for a solution. Tell me how to fix this, etc. As a high earning executive, you are likely very used to solving problems quickly and making important, quick decisions. But unfortunately, you can't control the speed of your wife's actions or healing - at least not very much. She has to process this herself, and it takes a very long time to heal from this - average is 2-5 years. Took me 3 years. You can shorten the time by proactive remorse, by using the playbook you've been given and likely have read about.

But at that point you just have to do those things, and then be patient. Like fishing. You can't MAKE a fish bite the hook. Sometimes you have to throw your best cast and wait it out. And yes, that can be excruciating, especially for a high-performing executive type person who is used to making things happen. Everyone who cheats wants their spouse to just "get better". But it doesn't work that way.

Good luck to you on saving the marriage.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

How is your wife? Is she still having emotional outbursts, talking about revenge, etc?

How are your children? How are they acting toward you? Have you spoken to them directly about this, if only to apologize?

Have you looked into counseling, either as a couple or by yourself? As some posters have said, you should go whether or not she goes with you. I'm sure the prospect of telling another person face-to-face about the details of your infidelity is mortifying. Any experienced counselor has heard similar things. You could start by saying you were seeing a prostitute, and that now your marriage is in shambles. Then you could say that you're not sure if you're fully in touch with why you cheated. Then you could explain the focus on the particular sex act. Breaking it up like that might make it easier for you to ease into telling another person. It still won't be a breeze, but you'll need to talk to somebody personally if you want the best chance of getting through this.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

vincent3 said:


> How is your wife? Is she still having emotional outbursts, talking about revenge, etc? ...


Yes, she still has tremendous emotional mood swing, and still come up with new very weird and wacky ideas (like booking a session to see whether a prostitute can stimulate me physically, or me helping her to find a male escort so that we can compare the betrayal feeling after, etc.) , and still refusing to join me in counselling.



vincent3 said:


> How are your children? How are they acting toward you? Have you spoken to them directly about this, if only to apologize?


Our kids are practically young adults so we talked to them about our situation, I've asked them to talk to me & my wife about what's in their mind, but they didn't say much, just said that they hope things will work out.



vincent3 said:


> Have you looked into counseling, either as a couple or by yourself? As some posters have said, you should go whether or not she goes with you.


Yes, I've been in counselling for 2 weeks now, just by myself.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@ImAnIdiot I hope your IC will help you get some clarity and perhaps some understanding of why you did what you did and how it has impacted the whole family and your marriage. You complain about the criticism here but you are getting good advice. You still seem to be inward looking and not taking full responsibility. You have to humble yourself and stop being so defensive. There is no defending the indefensible. If you can approach your wife with humility it may help.
Your wife is in tremendous emotional pain (caused by the one person she loves) and will throw many things at you, now you have to be humble, patient and take it, stop being defensive and grumbling about poor you. It is not your decision whether the marriage is salvaged. It is your wife's, only if she decides to give you the gift of reconciliation. It is her right not to, remember that.
You say you are in a storm, fighting for your marriage. The storm was completely of your own doing, not some external party or force, YOUR doing. Think about that. . Now you know what you could lose. Take it as a huge life lesson and look to see what you need to do to change to become a better man, better father, regardless of the outcome for your marriage.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

aine said:


> @ImAnIdiot I hope your IC will help you get some clarity and perhaps some understanding of why you did what you did and how it has impacted the whole family and your marriage. You complain about the criticism here but you are getting good advice. You still seem to be inward looking and not taking full responsibility. You have to humble yourself and stop being so defensive. There is no defending the indefensible. If you can approach your wife with humility it may help.
> Your wife is in tremendous emotional pain (caused by the one person she loves) and will throw many things at you, now you have to be humble, patient and take it, stop being defensive and grumbling about poor you. It is not your decision whether the marriage is salvaged. It is your wife's, only if she decides to give you the gift of reconciliation. It is her right not to, remember that.
> You say you are in a storm, fighting for your marriage. The storm was completely of your own doing, not some external party or force, YOUR doing. Think about that. . Now you know what you could lose. Take it as a huge life lesson and look to see what you need to do to change to become a better man, better father, regardless of the outcome for your marriage.


Thanks for the criticism again, and thanks for telling me everything that I'm already aware, and suggesting nothing new for me to help my wife coping with it.


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## ImAnIdiot (May 20, 2020)

Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?

I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?
> 
> I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
> Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


Ask your counselor.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Thanks for the criticism again, and thanks for telling me everything that I'm already aware, and suggesting nothing new for me to help my wife coping with it.


You may be aware of your totally self centric view but what are you doing about it?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think you will find that folk here who have had a revenge affair often regret it.
Also, is she just going to get oral sex from this escort (like you did)? 
You know this is her lashing out in her hurt and anger.
SHE should discuss this with a counselor.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You may be aware of your totally self centric view but what are you doing about it?


I think he has been asking for help to figure out what to do.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?
> 
> I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
> Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


Don’t do it. If she wants a revenge affair then that is on her. She can take care of the logistics of it. I say it will effectively end your marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ABHale said:


> I think he has been asking for help to figure out what to do.


He has also disregarded anything that didn't fit his agenda even if it might have been beneficial for his wife and family.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ImAnIdiot said:


> I came to this forum for help, about 10% of the posts provided some good suggestions and I appreciate them, the rest were just mostly criticisms.
> We live in the society where over 60% of marriages ended in divorce, to me it's taking the easy way out. No doubt many of those divorces are better for both people. However were any of those marriages worth saving? possibly, but it would need tremendous amount of effort to do so.
> And then there's me. I've admitted many times that I was an idiot, I cheated on my wife to satisfy meaningless fantasy that brought a major storm into a perfect picture family home, so no need to keep beating up the dead horse.
> There's an easy way out: get a divorce, I'm an executive with high income and total assets worth a few mills, I would have a comfortable single life after a divorce. But I don't want it, I want to save this marriage because my wife and I were always good together, I still love her and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. My wife even told me that she knows she won't find anyone who would be her soul mate like I've been. Even though my marriage right now is like a small boat in the Perfect storm at sea, but I'm not giving up because I truly believe it's worth every effort to save.
> ...


Believe me divorce isn't the easy way out, but it may well be what your wife chooses. I and others here have advised that you give her space. Find somewhere else to live for at least 3 months if not 6, don't contact her unless its vital, and tell her that you know she is deeply hurting and that you want to give her time and space for her to decide what she wants to do. You being there is NOT helping. If she wants to work on the marriage she will let you know in her own time.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Like ConanHub said as well. Talk with your counselor.

Keep going to counseling.

If she brings up the male escort again, tell her that is up to her. If that is what she wants then she can find one herself. You are right about not being able to tell her she can’t. Even if you never cheated, you couldn’t really tell her she can’t do something.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The only thing I see he hasn’t done is leaving the home. If he did leave, his wife would assume it was to be with an escort.

He is in counseling and answering her questions.

He has made a royal mess and is now living in it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?
> 
> I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
> Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


In your shoes if I wanted to save my marriage, I would say something like, "If you want to see an escort for revenge sex, I understand, and I won't stop you. But I can't set that up for you. Everything I've read said that people who do this end up regretting it - and I don't want to set you up to feel that way. But again, I won't stop you if that's what you want to do."

Put it in her hands - she'll likely never really do it. Or she'll chicken out. If her condition to stay married is for YOU to arrange for HER revenge sex, I would decline and just get on with the divorce. You are already facing very long odds here. Do you really want to go through this for the 5-10% chance it actually has a good result? 

Think about it - if your wife went and had revenge sex, would this actually give you a better chance of reconciling? I'd say it would be the opposite.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Tell her no. You don't want her to feel as disgusted with herself as you feel with yourself. If she wants to lower herself to using a prostitute, then she can make the arrangement and pay for it just like you had to. And, she can live with the aftermath just like you're doing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Thanks for the criticism again, and thanks for telling me everything that I'm already aware, and suggesting nothing new for me to help my wife coping with it.


Yes by leaving her alone for a few months. She needs space to sort out her feelings and decide what to do. Your presence is not allowing her to do this. I doubt you will do this though, because you think that if you leave you will never be able to go back. Very possible of course, but that's a risk you will have to take.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Like ConanHub said as well. Talk with your counselor.

Keep going to counseling.

If she brings up the male escort again, tell her that is up to her. If that is what she wants then she can find one herself. You are right about not being able to tell her she can’t. Even if you never cheated, you couldn’t really tell her she can’t do something.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ABHale said:


> The only thing I see he hasn’t done is leaving the home. If he did leave, his wife would assume it was to be with an escort.
> 
> He is in counseling and answering her questions.
> 
> He has made a royal mess and is now living in it.


That could be the case but he needs to make sure the best situation is being provided for his wife and minor child at home.

She is triggering from him and exploding.

At least he is in counseling.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

That "storm" you're in reminded me of this. It is from Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami:

_“Sometimes fate is like a small sandstorm that keeps changing directions. You change direction but the sandstorm chases you. You turn again, but the storm adjusts. Over and over you play this out, like some ominous dance with death just before dawn. Why? Because this storm isn't something that blew in from far away, something that has nothing to do with you. This storm is you. Something inside of you. So all you can do is give in to it, step right inside the storm, closing your eyes and plugging up your ears so the sand doesn't get in, and walk through it, step by step. There's no sun there, no moon, no direction, no sense of time. Just fine white sand swirling up into the sky like pulverized bones. That's the kind of sandstorm you need to imagine.

And you really will have to make it through that violent, metaphysical, symbolic storm. No matter how metaphysical or symbolic it might be, make no mistake about it: it will cut through flesh like a thousand razor blades. People will bleed there, and you will bleed too. Hot, red blood. You'll catch that blood in your hands, your own blood and the blood of others.

And once the storm is over you won't remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive. You won't even be sure, in fact, whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm you won't be the same person who walked in. That's what this storm's all about.”_


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?
> 
> I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
> Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


You could tell her that if a qualified marriage counselor agrees that it's the best way forward, you'll consider it.

When you say you're "begging" her, maybe you mean something different from what I'm envisioning. If it's flat-out begging or pleading, I'd again advise you to approach it differently. With a tone of apologetic humility, just tell her that revenge infidelity won't help your recovery. If she says that she isn't interested in recovery, but just destructive revenge, then there's only one way forward. I understand that you want to fight for your family and marriage, but it might be time to cut your losses if she just refuses to reconcile. It can be hard to know when she's just lashing out verses truly set on burning it all down, so that's where a counselor can help.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

It is going to take a lot of hard work and time for you to redeem yourself. You are not going to be coddled and regardless of what you think it's really not what you want either. Okay, maybe it's what you _want_ but it's not what you _need_.

There are some harsh posts, I'll give you that, but there is also a lot of good advice if you sort through it and take the emotion out of it. Some of it just isn't what _you_ want to hear or do, but that doesn't mean it's bad advice. 

You say divorce is the easy way out (it's not, there is no easy way out of this), but unless you are going to do the work then you aren't reconciling either. Just admitting that you were wrong is not enough. You may stay together but it will not be a true reconciliation and it will come back to bite you in the ass. You either do the work now or you do it later, but either way it needs to be done and as hard as it is... it's a hell of a lot easier to do it sooner rather than later. 

Reconciliation is hard, hard work. If you can't take some criticism then I really don't think there is any chance of reconciliation working out. It's a hell of a lot harder and more excruciating than whatever will be said to you here. 

You need to keep working on you, leave your wife alone. If she doesn't want to do MC right now then stop asking because it's not the right time anyway. I found out about my wife's cheating in Nov/18 and we didn't start MC until March/19 because that's when *I* was ready. What she wanted really didn't matter, and it doesn't matter for you either.

You've been given plenty of good advice on how to handle her RA request. As others have said, her doing that won't help, won't accomplish her goal, and it will make everything worse.


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## paboy (May 27, 2020)

Please refer her to Surviving Infidelity. Its another forum. It will allow her to receive others advise, and is separate from here so that you are both not crossing. If she is unwilling to get IC, this could be her outlet initially. If she does start posting there, ensure that you do not read, so that she can be comfortable in how she moves forward.


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## paboy (May 27, 2020)

Both of you need to remain away from each others postings. i.e. do not tell her about this place. It is your safe haven as Surviving Infidelity would be hers.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

paboy said:


> Please refer her to Surviving Infidelity. Its another forum. It will allow her to receive others advise, and is separate from here so that you are both not crossing. If she is unwilling to get IC, this could be her outlet initially. If she does start posting there, ensure that you do not read, so that she can be comfortable in how she moves forward.


I won't recommend SI.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ImAnIdiot said:


> Does anyone has any suggestion about the situation where my wife wants me to set her up with a male escort for a revenge betrayal sex?
> 
> I know if I beg her not to do it she will response "you have no right"
> Even though I really don't want to, but it's got the point now that I just want to give up and get it over with, what's going to happen after?


Sure. Do you think it will help or hurt your marriage? If you think it will help then do it. If you think it will hurt then don't. That wasn't do you want to do it.
Personally I don't think it would help. But your wife is raging right now and she wants to find a way to make things equal. 

When I was young if a friend smacked you then ran everyone knew that eventual the friend would have to let you smack them or the friendship was over. Obviously juvenile but somehow that worked for us. Once we smacked them back we were ok.

However if we apply that to your situation you wife would have to go to the male escort how many times? And she would probably just hate herself afterwards. I blame you for that as well.

Rage is rage. It is logical, loving, insightful. She hasn't moved past the rage yet. It will take time and there is nothing you can really do. You can give her space when she needs space. You can be the best partner you can be. You can answer an questions she has honestly. You can make sure all your devices, where abouts and trips out of the house are accounted for. 

When she demands that you could try responding honestly. Of course I don't know your feelings so your feelings may not help her but this should be about building an honest relationship she can trust in again eventually. It may turn out that a relationship cannot be rebuilt. Somethings when broken can not be fixed.

My feelings or response would be....
Wife I understand why you are asking for this but I will not do this. I love you and understand that I broke something in you by visiting a prostitute but you won't find any comfort in this revenge. You'll probably just feel disgusted. I'll do what I can to help you. If you set it up. I'll drive you and wait outside to make sure you are safe.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@ImAnIdiot deleted the OP. Thread closed.


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