# Marriage - The Kiss Of Death?



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

This thread is inspired by the whole Brangolina stuff going on (I don't know the full story, I will defer to @Rowan as my celebrity reporter  ). I guess t hey were together for 10 years, got married, and within two years are getting divorced.

This has brought up the question about marriage, and what changes happen going from a LTR to marriage that could cause issues (whether it be psychological or other). I guess this has a lot of therapists chiming in, and some possible answers:

- Marriage makes the person feel like they have finally "locked in" their SO, so they lose the incentive to keep working at the relationship

- Some people go through with marriage b/c they feel this will make their SO change

- Feeling like you need to commingle of assets in marriage vs maintaining separate assets

- Assuming no kids are involved, being in a LTR without marriage you might feel like if things go south you are free to leave with little complication. Once married, things change since now going through divorce proceeding is needed.

- Getting married leads to defining each others roles, where just staying in a LTR without marriage does not.

Thoughts? Anyone here been in a LTR, and shortly after actually getting married things went south quick? if so, what changed?


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Well, it wasn't being "locked down" sexually that did it. Brad and Angelina went public with their open relationship years ago. IIRC, they're both bisexual and were free to indulge with same sex partners.

Frankly, I think the open marriage thing was both of them interviewing replacements. According to rumor, Brad found one first.

I have seen so many people in LTR's that weren't quite working decide to marry and then divorce shortly afterward. I highly suspect a lot of those couples were already keeping their relationship together with duct tape and string, hoped marrying would be a magic fix, and it wasn't.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I did not feel marriage changed anything for us, except offering financial and legal protection.

Really, Dug and I are together because we want to be, not because of any legal anything, nor even because of the vows that we did not realize we were going to have to make (civil service--we did not meet with officiant beforehand).

I heard Brad Pitt had an affair. Not sure if that is true or not, nor if it had any bearing on his wife's decision to file.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Apparently, there are rumors that Mr. Pitt's affection for both alcohol and Marion Cotillard, had something to do with the breakup of that marriage. Who knows. I just hope they handle the divorce in a manner that is as least damaging as possible to their children, given the appallingly public nature of their lives.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Thoughts? Anyone here been in a LTR, and shortly after actually getting married things went south quick? if so, what changed?


Shortly after marrying my first wife, things went south _immediately_. I still don't know for sure why, but in retrospect it was a clear bait and switch.

Second marriage (for us both) after seven years together, we were very concerned that marriage could ruin our great relationship. We agreed we'd divorce if it did, and try to recover what we had. Fortunately, our concerns were unfounded - nothing changed, although we have grown even closer over the years since (but that would have happened anyway).


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MJJEAN said:


> Well, it wasn't being "locked down" sexually that did it. *Brad and Angelina went public with their open relationship years ago. IIRC, they're both bisexual and were free to indulge with same sex partners.*


 I never heard any of this.. or seen it in any tabloids till I read it right here.. 



jld said:


> I did not feel marriage changed anything for us, except offering financial and legal protection.
> 
> Really, Dug and I are together because we want to be, not because of any legal anything, nor even because of the vows that we did not realize we were going to have to make (civil service--we did not meet with officiant beforehand).


 Marriage was something we talked about for years, and greatly anticipated...we did wait to go "all the way" so that was pretty exciting !! Marriage was certainly better over dating, when you factor this in...

Although we struggled with getting pregnant for a time after our 1st son...I always felt being married was a dream realized...something I deeply wanted -just to be sure he was the right man...I always felt this was established.. worked that out in dating..there was a time I questioned.. his being my 1st love & all.. I wasn't so sure.. we broke up for a very short time... and I ended up going back.. it took that experience to settle me.. and I KNEW... 

We did take vows in front of family & friends.... Honestly I think I was a little high during this...not even sure I was listening so closely to what all the Minister was saying...but I well knew what it all meant.. that "this was IT.. we're stuck with each other now !.. he's my life.. I am his".. after being together for a # of years.. it just felt "so right"... like its about time ! 

This feeling has remained.. there was never a shaky period wondering if we chose the wrong partner or anything like this.. we've faced everything together and been better for that.. building upon our commitment.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Well, it wasn't being "locked down" sexually that did it. Brad and Angelina went public with their open relationship years ago. IIRC, they're both bisexual and were free to indulge with same sex partners.
> 
> Frankly, I think the open marriage thing was both of them interviewing replacements. According to rumor, Brad found one first.





Rowan said:


> Apparently, there are rumors that Mr. Pitt's affection for both alcohol and Marion Cotillard, had something to do with the breakup of that marriage. Who knows. I just hope they handle the divorce in a manner that is as least damaging as possible to their children, given the appallingly public nature of their lives.


So I think then the question in both the above, let's say the relationship was open from the very start, or that Pitt always enjoyed his "vices", was the expectation that when they got married, those things would change? I guess I always see a lot of danger when you enter into a relationship (or in this case your relationship changes) with the expectations that the person will now change.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I never heard any of this.. or seen it in any tabloids till I read it right here..


I will add @MJJEAN to my list of Celebrity TAM reporters, looks like you might need to step up your game @Rowan :wink2:


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

i can see cases for both. Sometimes a relationship recovers because one is married and more effort may be placed on working things out due to the legality of marriage . On the other hand, bait and switch, plus complacency and the illusion of those vows. Some believe love is infinite, eternal nonsense, but it is something others do for another to keep that relationship strong.

Another case, some people don't want to be married. My aunt is happier with just a weekend bf and that is it. Some people sabotage their marriage only to find out that they are not marriage material either enjoying serial dating, or like my aunt, prefer a lot more autonomy than most marriages would allow. Sometimes this discovery occurs while one is married.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@SimplyAmorous

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...ie=UTF-8#q=brad and angelina open relationsip


----------



## vel (Aug 27, 2016)

Nothing changed between us dating (many many years) and getting married (also many years now). I mean we were already living together with combined finances, so other than exchanging nice shiny rings literally nothing. We knew each other so thoroughly, there were no surprises.



EllisRedding said:


> - Some people go through with marriage b/c they feel this will make their SO change


I think this here, is what makes a lot of marriages end quick. Getting married, having babies--none of that should be used as last ditch efforts to strengthen a ****ty relationship.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

First I think we all a recognize that celebrity marriages success rate is very low. You are marrying togeher two exceptionally attractive people with some narcissistic like personality and changes of survival is small. I don't know anyone who thought they were going to go distance. Hell I didn't think they would make it this long.

I do think having kids changes your relationship but not sure how much marriage does. What I think happens is that overtime we become less tolerant of things we see in the other person. If you get married in your 20's by mid thirtys or forties you are a different person,so is your spouse. Only way I see is to grow together or have a commitment to continually work the relationship as it evolves. Honestly in today's society many are not willing to do that when they can go out and get a new shiny with little to no effort. I still think marriage is a great and wonderful thing when you can get two adults together who are willing to Put in the work .


----------



## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> This thread is inspired by the whole Brangolina stuff going on (I don't know the full story, I will defer to @Rowan as my celebrity reporter  ). I guess t hey were together for 10 years, got married, and within two years are getting divorced.
> 
> This has brought up the question about marriage, and what changes happen going from a LTR to marriage that could cause issues (whether it be psychological or other). I guess this has a lot of therapists chiming in, and some possible answers:
> 
> ...


What an interesting thread! I will say that the first one applied to our relationship. My STBXH "got comfortable" almost immediately. The relationship didn't really progress; we just became roommates and partners in raising kids almost immediately. 

The other one that applied, at least for me, is that a marriage means you are stuck. When things were bad between us, I felt very trapped. Like a caged animal. I wanted to make us work, but I couldn't. And it took years for me to leave. For this reason alone, I'll probably never marry again.


----------



## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

I should ask my mom. She has been married and divorced 4 times. I don't know the details of her first marriage (to may dad)...but her second marriage she was with this guy for A LOT of years before they got married...then divorced soon after. Third marriage...dated a while....can't remember the years...got married..BOOM...got divorced. Fourth marriage dated a looooong time...got married...got divorced.... Obviously it's her...lol... She has currently been single for several years...I guess she finally realized that she don't need no man to prove her worth.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wolf1974 said:


> First I think we all a recognize that celebrity marriages success rate is very low. * You are marrying togeher two exceptionally attractive people with some narcissistic like personality and changes of survival is small. * I don't know anyone who thought they were going to go distance. Hell I didn't think they would make it this long.


 Years ago here...someone used a word here to describe the condition of having TOO MUCH choice -like Hollywood actresses & Actors, Rock stars.. people who are successful , hot & Beautiful.... how this factors in -why so few can remain faithful.. I wish I could remember the word used.. dang it...

I've always felt this myself.. if someone is drop dead gorgeous , got those "model" looks, perfect body...I always think in the back of my mind.. I doubt they can remain faithful & true to one partner without jumping to another who entices them somehow, physical chemistry can take many down -when a lot of attention is being paid.. 

I can't help it.. I consider this being realistic in our world today... *they have far more temptation than the average Joe or Jane*...they are used to being pampered & get what they want EASILY..... this does lead to narcissism many times...

Without a strong moral compass on how they handle relationships, ethically...there is little hope for them.. 

If they are naturally outgoing, flirty.. the bar will shoot to the top for being a RISK..


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Marriage didn't change my relationship in any significant way. We'd moved in together months before.


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

For me, marriage didn't change anything. It wasn't until a few years into the marriage that things started to change. We dated for maybe 8 months before moving in together. Then we lived together for over 3 years before getting married. I do think that living together before getting married really prepped us. Nothing felt different after the wedding. 

With regard to Brad and Angelina, I never knew that they were in an open marriage. Celebrities don't seem to make marriages last so I guess I'm not surprised. They're both rich so their life styles won't be impacted. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Altair (Sep 16, 2016)

Either most people change after marriage or marriage changes people or both.

Most of the time those changes are not for the better!


----------



## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

Well Brad was obviously a breast man then...


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Florida_rosbif said:


> Well Brad was obviously a breast man then...


Really!? Wow, so insensitive to make a comment like that. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I never heard any of this.. or seen it in any tabloids till I read it right here..
> 
> Marriage was something we talked about for years, and greatly anticipated...we did wait to go "all the way" so that was pretty exciting !! Marriage was certainly better over dating, when you factor this in...
> 
> ...


Wow, interesting. You started the same way we did but the results were way different. I also felt right about everything we were doing but had no idea as to what was to follow. I was sure at that point that she was the one for me and for the same reasons you had I absolutely wanted marriage very deeply, I didn't think I could ever be happy without it. I thought the fact that her family had money wasn't going to be a big deal. Shortly thereafter I felt I had the weight of the world on my shoulders. I was told had to provide for a house, cars, vacations, all monthly bills and all she wanted (which there was an endless list). Suddenly all the optimism I had turned to despair. There was no way I had nor would ever be able to make all the money for all those needs.


----------



## Altair (Sep 16, 2016)

Florida_rosbif said:


> Well Brad was obviously a breast man then...


Crude but funny.


----------



## Florida_rosbif (Oct 18, 2015)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Really!? Wow, so insensitive to make a comment like that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ah come on! If someone is so "people" that they think it essential to go global about their double mastectomy, at least let the cynical bastards like me enjoy some topical humour!


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jb02157 said:


> Wow, interesting. You started the same way we did but the results were way different. I also felt right about everything we were doing but had no idea as to what was to follow. I was sure at that point that she was the one for me and for the same reasons you had I absolutely wanted marriage very deeply, I didn't think I could ever be happy without it. *I thought the fact that her family had money wasn't going to be a big deal. Shortly thereafter I felt I had the weight of the world on my shoulders. I was told had to provide for a house, cars, vacations, all monthly bills and all she wanted (which there was an endless list).* Suddenly all the optimism I had turned to despair. There was no way I had nor would ever be able to make all the money for all those needs.


 I'm sorry to hear this jb02157 .. so this was a matter of her expecting MORE than you could offer financially....basically to continue a certain lifestyle she was accustomed to. .

I have heard you say a few times that you relate to something I've shared...then there was a "BUT"... 

Probably very different from your wife's upbringing... I wasn't at all pampered at home.. I wasn't even given lunch money for school.. I had a hate relationship with my step mother back then, my husband felt I was emotionally abused by her... I had a job at 16, was expected to buy my own car, insurance.. at 18 they had my bedroom on the porch after a date, I was on my own.. I had a car.. it was Ok.. I had him... I lived in a camper in someone's back yard for a time .. I was very very frugal, if I had a dime, I'd save it.. when dating. my husband took me out to buy me clothes, I never had new clothes.. .he seen the notes on the fridge -her telling me to keep my F'n hands off the food.. I would write letters how I wanted out of that house.. basically I was somewhat of a Damsel in Distress.. and he took a chance on me.. what he also saw was...a girl who was VERY APPRECIATIVE of the little things... he wanted to pamper me!

Obviously I had dreams of a better life.. I wanted a family of my own.. I dreamed of a country home... I knew that would take MONEY.. and saving.. We scrimped.. some of the things we did to save a $1 back then.







... buying a 4x4 in pieces, the cab was being used as a Makita dog box (can you imagine!)... but it had all these new parts, the price was a steal... so he bought it.. then we had to put it together, a mechanic friend helping him...spending time at the local junk yard looking for parts, we put in a wood /coal furnace, would gather wood together (the gas bill at our 2nd house was outrageous -so we did something about it !).... I put a pic of that crazy wood pile on here before... 








... we tried to do everything ourselves - so we could keep saving.. I've always managed our money even.. he was never worried about me over spending.. as I was even tighter over him... .. we've had some fights over the years.. like anyone else...but never over money.. we were always on the same page... Times were a little tough back then, sometimes I felt we worked too much & didn't take time to smell the roses.. but it all came together.. 

Just a question @jb02157 - was you more of a Saver, and her a spender or you both just put yourself in a situation where it was too expensive to live, afford even the basics (some areas have very high taxes & cost of living).. we live in a very low cost area- which has helped.. 

Had your wife been more cautious / careful with the spending, vacation planning, etc, could this have made all the difference ? Did she at least work too -to help out?


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Ok so this does explain everything. Upbringing plays a huge role in who we are as adults and then the expectations that we have. I was brought up like you were, absolutely nothing was given to me and I had to earn or pay for everything myself. When I went to college, I was on the hook for everything, took me 10 years to pay it all back. In fact I was several thousands of dollars short senior year and if it wasn't for an anonymous donor to the school, I would never have graduated. Saved whenever I could to this very day. I guess it was my fault assuming that everyone lived like that when I met my wife. Of course lying that she was going to work and help out with finances and then saying after we were married that she never intended to work and would only be a SAHM definitely didn't help. I made enough for an average life in Averageville, USA which was more than enough to satisfy me...but not for other people.

Truth is we were very different people with very different expectations of life. The things that I though mattered didn't matter and turned out to be frivolous crap and all the things that mattered most of all, like her coming from money, while it did concern me, didn't cause me to run with my arms flailing above my head as it should have. I made a bad choice without realizing it. 

I wish I lived the same type of life you and your husband live. It's so much more me.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Begin again said:


> What an interesting thread! I will say that the first one applied to our relationship. My STBXH "got comfortable" almost immediately. The relationship didn't really progress; we just became roommates and partners in raising kids almost immediately.
> 
> The other one that applied, at least for me, is that a marriage means you are stuck. *When things were bad between us, I felt very trapped. Like a caged animal. I wanted to make us work, but I couldn't.* And it took years for me to leave. For this reason alone, I'll probably never marry again.


Your statement here, especially the bolded part, bears a striking resemblance to my experience, minus the kids part, since my XH and I didn't have kids. It was good--even though it was already sexless--for the first year, and then it very quickly went to sh!t and I felt like a prisoner. And he and I lived together for 5 yrs before we married.

When we married, we had some problems (dwindling sex), but at the time I thought they were circumstantial, due to changes in my schedule (going back to school part-time for me) and stress for him (he lost his job and wasn't working for 6 mos, about a year before we married), rather than being symptoms of larger issues in our relationship. Now, looking back on it, I realize that he probably didn't really want to marry me, but after 5 years of living together, if he didn't marry me, I would have moved out and broken up with him, and he didn't want that either. Marrying me was just the easier thing to do. I'm sure that was one of the reasons he came to resent me so much--I had "forced" him to marry him when he really didn't want to.

Despite my experiences with my XH, I would get married again, if it was the right man--but it's no longer my end-game goal, and I know I'll be ok if I never marry again. I'm on board with @Wolf1974 when he said:



Wolf1974 said:


> Only way I see is to grow together or have a commitment to continually work the relationship as it evolves. Honestly in today's society many are not willing to do that when they can go out and get a new shiny with little to no effort. I still think marriage is a great and wonderful thing when you can get two adults together who are willing to Put in the work .


I would only want to marry someone who also felt this way, and who was willing to put in the work.

I firmly believe that love is an active, daily choice. It isn't something that just happens to you, like you get hit with a stick and _BOOM, you're in love!_ And then later the stick comes back and hits you again and _CRACK! You're not in love anymore!_ You make an active, daily choice to love your partner, and to make sure they feel loved by you, even if they are being a stupid-head, and your mate should be doing the same thing. And this means recognizing threats and danger zones... if someone is flirting with you, and you find them attractive, maybe it feels good, but it's a threat, so you don't engage and make sure it doesn't go any farther; you talk with your partner about molehills before they become mountains; you have open communication and are receptive to hearing what the other has to say. All that good stuff. If you fall out of love with your partner, it didn't just happen--one or both people stopped making the active choice to be fully present and love their partner.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jb02157 said:


> Ok so this does explain everything. Upbringing plays a huge role in who we are as adults and then the expectations that we have. I was brought up like you were, absolutely nothing was given to me and I had to earn or pay for everything myself. When I went to college, I was on the hook for everything, took me 10 years to pay it all back. In fact I was several thousands of dollars short senior year and if it wasn't for an anonymous donor to the school, I would never have graduated. Saved whenever I could to this very day. I guess it was my fault assuming that everyone lived like that when I met my wife. Of course lying that she was going to work and help out with finances and then saying after we were married that she never intended to work and would only be a SAHM definitely didn't help. I made enough for an average life in Averageville, USA which was more than enough to satisfy me...but not for other people.
> 
> Truth is we were very different people with very different expectations of life. The things that I though mattered didn't matter and turned out to be frivolous crap and all the things that mattered most of all, like her coming from money, while it did concern me, didn't cause me to run with my arms flailing above my head as it should have. I made a bad choice without realizing it.
> 
> I wish I lived the same type of life you and your husband live. It's so much more me.


I was hoping it would explain something.... I've heard it said *Communication*, *money issues,* & *SEX* are like the top 3 relationship killers...some aspect of those.. now my parents.. they were both savers, I think that was the one & only thing they had in common...Sex was their downfall. (they only lasted 9 yrs & that was too long...I remember the fights)...

When I hear that old classic on the radio by Skynyrd... Simple Man .. yeah I think of my husband... not a hard guy to please.. pretty happy with the simple things.. he's more of a Homebody.. I am too. 

I appreciate threads like this* >> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ings-do-your-wife-husband-wont-cost-dime.html 

I remember seeing it not long after I found this forum... .. We've spent more as we've gotten older.. as we built it up.. we even blew off our Honeymoon when we married (which was probably one of the dumbest things we ever did -we had the money -had our wedding covered in full.. even opened up thousands in cash.. then still blew it off).... 

I was seriously more concerned about saving for a house.... then when we had 4 kids, he got a better paying job ...had our country home by then... so we loaded them all up.. and drove back there...telling them we were taking them all on our "long lost Honeymoon"... so that was kinda Crazy.. but we made up for it..

Are you still together ...has it gotten any better ??


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I was hoping it would explain something.... I've heard it said *Communication*, *money issues,* & *SEX* are like the top 3 relationship killers...some aspect of those.. now my parents.. they were both savers, I think that was the one & only thing they had in common...Sex was their downfall. (they only lasted 9 yrs & that was too long...I remember the fights)...
> 
> When I hear that old classic on the radio by Skynyrd... Simple Man .. yeah I think of my husband... not a hard guy to please.. pretty happy with the simple things.. he's more of a Homebody.. I am too.
> 
> ...


Yeah still together...for the time being. Nothing has gotten better and at this stage in the game I have no reason to think it will. Funny you mention honeymoons. I thought the Caribbean was a great idea and it would have been...had it not been for Hurricane Gilbert. Yeah, I got blamed for that to. 

As far as saving for a house was concerned, we started out in an apartment and after listening to crap from the in-laws for months, I was able to get us a town-house after hocking practically everything we had. After we moved in, MIL said, so when are you getting a house?? I could have punched her.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Only way I see is to grow together or have a commitment to continually work the relationship as it evolves. Honestly in today's society many are not willing to do that when they can go out and get a new shiny with little to no effort. I still think marriage is a great and wonderful thing when you can get two adults together who are willing to Put in the work .


^^This. So much this. 100% agree. Growing together is part of the fun! 



FeministInPink said:


> I would only want to marry someone who also felt this way, and who was willing to put in the work.
> 
> I firmly believe that love is an active, daily choice. It isn't something that just happens to you, like you get hit with a stick and _BOOM, you're in love!_ And then later the stick comes back and hits you again and _CRACK! You're not in love anymore!_ You make an active, daily choice to love your partner, and to make sure they feel loved by you, even if they are being a stupid-head, and your mate should be doing the same thing. And this means recognizing threats and danger zones... if someone is flirting with you, and you find them attractive, maybe it feels good, but it's a threat, so you don't engage and make sure it doesn't go any farther; you talk with your partner about molehills before they become mountains; you have open communication and are receptive to hearing what the other has to say. All that good stuff. If you fall out of love with your partner, it didn't just happen--one or both people stopped making the active choice to be fully present and love their partner.


^^And this...absolutely agree. When you're married, you don't put yourself in situations where something inappropriate could happen, and if you find yourself in said situation you remove yourself immediately.


Marriage didn't change our day to day life at all really, but it did change *something* - in a good way. I can't even explain what it is...I felt different somehow...I love being married to my husband, marriage is wonderful.

All my adult life, I've wanted my own family. I wanted a loving, happy marriage and a family of my own. Thanks to my husband I now have that, I'll be forever grateful to him (and his first wife) for allowing me the privilege of such a big role in their daughters life.


----------

