# Beginning of the End?



## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I need to talk but not really sure who to talk to or where to start, so I guess just getting things out is at least a start.

I came home yesterday to find my wife has gone, she wants a trial seperation to try to find herself and rekindle her love for me and to think about her future.

It just feels like, it’s the end.

We have been married 8 years and together for 12, all that time we have I thought shared the same goals, careers, big house, flash cars, holidays.

About 3 years ago I started working away from home, 2 years later my wife decided to as well, and I think thats when our problems really started.

She didnt really cope that well at least thats what I thought, she was spending so much money on hotels and eating out that her work stopped paying her expenses, and she built up debt that we paid off from our savings. During the time she also bought a car even we couldnt afford dipping into our savings and borrowing. When she did this she stopped contributing as much to the house hold bills.

We've argued a lot over it since then,, and about me not feeling that she was able to get the right work life balance.

I wont go into all the details but financially 3 years ago we had £55k in savings now we have £20k, this is despite us both earning more than we ever have.

She quit her job and came home, if I’m honest I was putting pressure on her to do this, paying off all her expenses was killing me financially, and she was also having problems at work as well, so she was coming home complaining about work and then I was giving her grief. The sadest thing for me is that, I think honestly she enjoyed being away.

That was 3 months ago, since she has been back her spending hasn’t really improved, but I was less concerned about it as at least we were spending more time together. I stopped working away as well and instead commute.

She fell pregnant and we were both so happy, neither of us had really thought we would ever want children but we both realised we did. Sadly she miscarriage and it hit her really bad, far worse than I think either of us expected.

Since then although she has got a new job and was talking about trading down her car, something has gone from her. She hasn’t wanted me to touch her which I understand, she is not fully recovered from the miscarriage, it takes time, but she seems to look at me differently and she has quite big mood swings one minute happy the next sad. She takes everything I say as criticism and all her confidence has gone.

I can see she isn’t happy, I don’t think she knows what she wants.
She left a note which confirms it all, she wants us to start again and date each other and try to refind her love for me. She left yesterday and is already talking of coming over tonight.

I just don’t know what I should do, she has rented a flat so planned the leave, I want to give her space but I’m worried about how to act when I see her. I am so sad that she has gone, she is all I want in life. I realised I guess some time ago, when we were apart due to work that truly all the material things where no longer important to me.

I have tried so hard over the last year to improve myself, I’ve lost weight quite smoking, she says in her letter that she no longer feels she is good enough for me, the reality has always been the opposite.

How do you start a relationship all over again, I have no idea where to begin or even if she is just saying it out of guilt.

I have no idea how I feel financially as well, I suspect that last of our savings will disappear and that was always a big issue for me as I see it as our future and all the things we could have spent doing together with it, its now just being wasted as I will need to use it on the house and she will on her rent.

I don’t know whether to tell people, I guess I am embarrassed, no, maybe not, maybe it is the realisation that this may not be temporary

I don’t know whether to ask her to move back, I want to, but that might not be right.

I really want her to see a councillor as I think she may be a little depressed, and at this stage I really feel I will make her worse as my only thoughts are reconciliation.

I understand that if she realises she no longer loves me then separation is the only option, but obviously that’s a hard pill to swallow.

I feel so lonely already.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

The first thing you need to do is buy the book (or ebook) Married Mans Sex Life (MMSL). It is the starting point for men in your situation. It is the starting point for all the advise you will be getting here. BTW it is mis-named its not about sex but about what attracts woman to men. You are not even on the field until you understand these principles.. This book will change your life.

keep updating this thread to keep it alive and you will receive good advise.
Take care!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the tip, ironically she bought be a kindle for my birthday, this will be the first book I put on it.


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## WhatKatyShouldHaveDone (Jun 12, 2012)

stamford

Please don't feel lonely - you are definitely not alone in your loneliness.

I can feel the hurt and confusion in your words, and I' m sorry. 

People want to be happy. More than anything. Everything that we want, we want it because we think we will feel better in the having of it. What people like your wife don't understand is that *happiness is an inside job*. Money, flash cars, new clothes, even a baby will not make you happy. 

So they keep searching, on to the next thing, on to the next thing.....

These situations are just so hard because trust kind of goes out of the window - I mean you came home to find she had just gone??!! It is hard to believe anything a WS says, and I don't even think half the time they even know how they really feel anyway. The blind leading the blind.

Try and think about what you want, and how you can best go about getting it whilst protecting yourself emotionally and financially. 

You live in UK? We do not seem to be as good as our American friends in getting therapy...but if she is SERIOUS about starting again, and not just stringing you along, then she will definitely agree to marriage therapy.

Get a session booked asap. If she will not go. I think that you are right, it is over.

You will get through this.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

You are welcome Stamford.

I sorry to even ask but do you suspect any type of ea/pa on her part over the years?


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds like she has just gotten bored & depressed and thinks something different in her life will make her happy. I agree with Katy that happiness starts with ones self first. IMO people learn to take what they have for granted. Only when they lose it all and find themselves unhappy again in another situation do they realize how good they had it. 

I hope things work our for you. Nothing more devastating then to lose someone you love.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Its been a week since I first posted.

I guess a fair amount has happened although it doesn’t feel as though we are any further forward.

She left last Thursday

Came over on Friday and we chatted and hugged, then she left, saying she would call or come over Saturday morning.

She came over Saturday afternoon, we had dinner, talked, hugged, she stayed the night.

Sunday we were up early, she said she wanted to go get some clothes so we could go to the gym, and that she would be back in an hour or so, she didn’t come back and didn’t answer the phone.

I went to the house she is renting Sunday pm 9:30ish, her car wasn’t there, there are 4 identical house in a barn conversion and I wasn’t sure which was hers so didn’t knock.

On Monday we spoke briefly, I asked her what she had got up to the previous night and she said she stayed in watching dvd’s, I didn’t say I had been over, felt to stalkerish.

Tuesday she came home after work and stayed over.

Wednesday she went out with work, but came home after and stayed.

Thursday we went to work together, by train, I texted her just before leaving asking what train she was getting back, she said she was working late and would get a taxi but would then be going back to her rented place. I stayed a little late so ended up on a later train than planned, she must have left at the time I had originally proposed, when I got home she wasn’t there and car was gone.

Called her and she said she was at a friends and we needed to talk and would pop round, couple of hours later no sign, so called again and she wasn’t picking up. Had a few drinks and went to sleep, woke up a few hours later at 2am couldn’t get back to sleep at 3:30 decided to go see her, drove to the rented place and her car wasn’t there.

Don’t understand whats going on, we were getting on well, and then she just switched, its driving me mad, I feel like a stalker, I just want a straight answer, we either have to work together equally or I don’t see how it can work.

Has anyone had this? How do you stop yourself from coming across pathetic and stalkerish, I don’t want to seem desperate I just want to know where I stand so we can move forward.

I haven’t told anyone yet, can’t bring myself to do it.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Decorum said:


> You are welcome Stamford.
> 
> I sorry to even ask but do you suspect any type of ea/pa on her part over the years?


A week ago I would have said no, but now I am not so sure, I still think no, since being back from working away, every 3-4 weeks she stays out a night or 2, at mums, with friends etc, of course, i have never checked.

She also been out a number of times, on girls nights, which I guess most women do.

Its hard to tell.

Now I dont think she is staying in the rented place she said she was, maybe she has stayed with a friend I dont know, I do know I have never met the friend.

I have asked and she has said no, but I can't deny I am not 100%.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

My typing is poor, but it is 5:30am, and I have been up since 06:30 yesterday so hopefully forgiven.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi Stamford,
Just checking on your thread, thanks for the update.
The uncertanity in all this must be very hard for you, I sorry.
It sounds like she is not wanting to hurt you so she is not telling you everything.

Do you feel strong enough to hear the truth no matter what it is?
I think that is what you need to think about now. Maybe try detaching emotionally a bit so you can gain some objectivity.

Following her around is not going to help you, she is excluding you and there is no ambiguity there.

Who can say what she is up to, but I have seen this before it usually happens before a revelation and a split.

It almost does not matter if the revelation is that there is an ea/pa (though they almost never admit to this if they dont have to), or some unhappiness that is causing her to leave.

You have to think about how to center yourself with her not in you world, that is hard work.

It may be that you can resolve whatever it is, but if you look at the newbie thread in the Coping With Infidelity section you can find some very helpful things there.

Just let me say that begging and looking weak is not attractive to most woman, this is a time to project strength and confidence as much as possible.

Also to think through what your boundaries are for a relationship and purpose to stick with them. This is all you really have control of at the moment, this will help you make good decisions and is your best chance at showing her a man worth being with. (these thinge are hard on our confidence and self esteem)

Some men go into detective mode here, if there is an affair there are important steps to take to try and recover the relationship, if you feel you need to go there, ask a moderator to move this to the Coping With Infidelity section and you will find much help there in this regard.

These will be hard days, be strong!

Check back when you can, type however you want!

Take care!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks so much for the response.

I have spoken to her now and feel a little better.

I dont think there is anyone else.

What she has told me is that 1minute she feels love for me the next she doesnt and when she doesnt she runs away rather than tell me.

She wants space, which is what I'm going to give her now.

I mentioned earlier that she had a miscarraige she is still bleeding from it and I believe it is affecting her as when she is ok with me she has stopped bleeding and as soon as it starts she seems to switch.

I have asked to see a Dr, she cancelled one appointment already.

I have been reading the 180 and know I have done everything wrong so far. Its partly because of the uncertainty and partly because we have a lodger and I am terrified of what people will think of me so am embarrased whenever she went and just wanted her back so we could pretend things are normal.

I realised today things arent normal, and I am going to try as best I can to follow the 180 advice.

I've also given her a councellor number so that she can hopefully talk through all her issues as I really dont think its just me thats the problem.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm glad to hear you feel a little better.
I had forgotten about the miscarriage, its been awhile since your first post. the emotions and hormones must make it hard for her.

Do a little research on how a miscarriage affects a woman and a marriage.

I know from being on here that what seems intuitive to a husband in trying to comfort a wife in this situation can make it worse, but I dont have enough experience with it to know, all my kids are grown and we never went through it.

If you start another thread here, IDK maybe in "the LADIES LOUNGE SECTION and ask them how you can best help your wife you might get some good advise!

Also ask about her flip floping in her feelings and her runing away in the LADIES LOUNGE SECTION.


Please, I know you know this, but doing anything now out of embarraement is going to be counterproductive, you have to be detached enough to do "whatever it takes" there is too much at stake.

Have you read MMSL yet? You need to get this and understand it.

The 180 is typically used to prepare for divorce, to help you not your wife, but the distancing often has the effect of making a spouce chase after you, but it is short lived and must be followed up with MMSL. Be careful because the distancing can also push a wife away if done to much or at the wrong time.

Stamford, i dont think its just you that is the problem, I do think that the seperation for the job is a really bad idea, ask any soldier it is so hard on a wife, and when she has resentment built up then feelings get confusing to a woman. I have seen it where a woman agrees to this arraignment and still cant help building resentment.

This is a common (and similar) occurance in a marriage, a woman marries for love, fills the role of wife and mother, the husband is happy but the wife loses herself in the relationship because she signed up for "you", not to fill a job description, she needs the connection.
For a woman to live in a marriage with no connection is like a man living in a marriage with no sex. (yes to my fellow posters everyone needs and likes sex and connection)

Think about it

Take care!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Well things have gone from bad to worse.

My wife has been back home for the last week, and things have been going well, she started seeing a councillor to sort herself out, at least thats what she told me.

Anyway, on Friday she had a session and was asked to do some homework, to right a list of the positives and negatives on me, despite curiousity I know better and stayed well away, its her private time and thoughts.

So Monday she has another session and talks about these things, when she came home we went to bed as normal, she then tells me she has parked her car at the end of the road because someone had blocked our drive, so I said i dont like the idea of it being there all night and offered to move it which she agreed, but didnt know where her keys were.

I looked for them, and opened her work bag, laptop case, and there was her list of positive and negatives, only it wasnt just on me it was on another man.

We spoke about it and she told me she had been asked to write the lists on all outside influences so I dropped the issue.

We went to work together as usual we catch the same train in, she said she had a meeting at 18:30, at around 15:30 she texts to say she is feeling down about me seeing the list, and has managed to get an appointment with the councillor, so I say ok.

I was passing the councillors place on the way to work so thought as I am starting to get trust issues I would turn into the road just to make sure her car was there, it wasnt.

So now I am concerned, I drive to her rented place which she hasnt been staying and there is her car, along with the other guys car, off course I went charging in.

He was more confused than I was, they are just friends nothing going on, and actually I totally believe him, he thought we were split, and she had asked him round to put together a table, his tools where there, and I am 100% convinced he was genuine.

She on the other hand put on this sharrad saying she wasnt at counciling she was considering doing it, that she hadnt been at mine for the last week, and that she hadnt been staying.

Suddenly things fell into place, she had coming in through the back door, parking her car out of sight, she has I believe told all her friends and all our neighbours that we are totally over, whilst staying with me and telling me we are on the mend.

She is living 2 totally different lives, and I believe she wants something to happen with this guy, but he is unaware.

I really do think she has gone mad, and unfortunatly because she has seperate our lives as in, her new friends I dont know and our old ones, she is telling the new ones we are over and the old ones we are working through it.

So today, I have decided there is nothing more I can do, i love her to bits, she was my life, my future, but I cant help her, I cant trust her.

Who knows what the future holds, I hope she can fix her issues I know I cant help her, and I know that if she does anything silly like sleep around (its not like her but given the circumstances you never know) I would not be able to forgive her.

I'm taking the day off tomorrow, to start protecting myself, locks are being changed bank accounts are going to get frozen, and I have to start figuring out how I will get on alone.

My parents where the only ones I have told, they are as shocked and confused as me. But I have asked them to let the rest of my family know the situation.

Oh and this may sound a little crazy, but, after I spoke to the wife and this guy, I went straight to my parents, they live on the route in between my house and the rented house, so when i left coincidently the wife drove past me, along with this guy following, so I decided you know what I am going to find out where he is living and if she is staying the night, so I followed, they didnt go to the same address, she went to a friends house, which makes me believe even more that the affair, is in her head only as surely they would have either stayed together in the rented house, or gone back to his house.

Anyway as painful as it is, I have to for the time being give up on my marraige, realise its not my fault, and start building a life for myself, if only I had as much confidence in myself as these words imply.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

When a woman says she needs "space" and wants to separate, what she is really saying is that she needs space to explore her new relationship with posOM.

And, she wants to do it out of sight.

Expose the affair to friends, family, co-workers, etc.

If you want her (and it sounds like you do), you must crush this affair.

You can do that by making it as difficult as possible for them to carry on.

Anything less makes you a silent co-conspirator.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford,
I am so sorry. Please listen to what Conrad is saying he is right.
Expose this to everyone, only a jolt will wake her up, if possible and it cannot be too strong.

Stay decent with her but detached and business like, offer no support.

You can tell her that you will will not share your wife with another man.

Tell her she has acted against everything she ever believed or stood for, and her disrepect and disloyalty is shocking.

The things you mentioned doing in you post are right in line with what we would recomend.

You would be supprised how many betrayed spouses (bs) take a long time to figure it out.

Please read the newbie thread in the coping with infidelity section.

Let us know how it goes.

Take care!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks guys,

Well it looks like I was wrong.

I cant sleep and although it is a little unethical I logged into her email account for the first time, she has been looking at places to rent since early sept looking with him, not share it seems but getting his opinion none the less.

She also went to the lake district with one of her girlfriends, who she told me booked it, but I can see in the emails that she booked it, and forward it onto him.

There is a couple of emails in there that she has forwarded onto him from me, only I didnt send them, she has written them posing as me begging for her to come back, and understanding that there is someone else. Untill today I had no certainty, and I am definatly not going to beg for someone who has cheated on me to come back.

So, with this new info I decided I wanted to double check his car wasnt in the same carpark her was, sadly it is, so she is staying with him tonight.

So in summary I am convinced now that she is having an affair.

The sadest part of all is that when she went on this weekend away, it was before we found out she was pregnant, and a few weeks before she misscarried, I am wondering now if her dirty weekend is what caused the miscarriage, and whether or not the baby would have even been mine.

I think my only option now is divorce, but how do I prove the affair when they wont admit to it.

I will start contacting some of her new friends tomorrow & family, to find out what she has been saying to them, I think I will go in with the view that I understand it is over, but the way she has been behaving is making me worry about her mental health.

Whatever happens, I really dont see how I can forgive her for what she has done, even if she decides later that she has made a mistake.

I can't stress enough how surprised I am by what she has done/is doing, its totally out of character for her.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

So, random question, how does someone go about building up a new social network.

I am sitting here thinking to myself I have very few friends, I've lost touch over the years as it was always just the 2 of us, and I commute to work, and moved to the area in my mid twenties so, no school friends, and no work mates.

I dont want to sit around on my own all the time or become some kind of recluse.

Any idea's where I start?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

God I wish I had smacked that guy now, I cant believe I was stupid enough to believe him.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> The sadest part of all is that when she went on this weekend away, it was before we found out she was pregnant, and a few weeks before she misscarried, I am wondering now if her dirty weekend is what caused the miscarriage, and whether or not the baby would have even been mine.


That made me sick in my stomach . This is horrible just to think of it !

Divorce her ASAP and forget everything about her . She is evil :scratchhead:


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Firstly almost no one here is going to think that is unethical.
We encourage you to use all means to gather evidence.

Check local laws and break them at your own risk, but I would never say its unethical to do this to catch a cheater in these ways.

If you can place a var (voice activated recorder) in a car or house then do it. Key loggers on a phone or computer, face book accounts etc...

Make copies of everything (emails, pictures,etc) and keep it in a safe place. Also make a concurrent log of these things.

Do not reveal to her where you get your info.


It is in your interest to know as much as possible about this, take a picture of their cars together at that home.

What are your ages? (sorry if you said already)
Can you join a exercise jym?
It will help you now and you make some acquaintances.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

When you have enough evidence to expose and maybe have the divorce papers in hand, let that guy know she sent emails in your name to lure him in.

Maybe other posters will comment on this.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I am 30, she is 32 this month.

I found another email for a bonfire night on Monday that she forwarded to him, I dont know if they went together or not, but if they did that means she didnt go to her counciling meeting on Monday, as it was at the same time.

The lies are just unbelievable, wish I could get hold of her mobile to see texts, but I doubt I will see her now for a while.

I guess most people in my position suddenly have this wake up call and realise, they have no idea who the person is they have been waking up to each day.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> I am 30, she is 32 this month.
> 
> I found another email for a bonfire night on Monday that she forwarded to him, I dont know if they went together or not, but if they did that means she didnt go to her counciling meeting on Monday, as it was at the same time.
> 
> ...


Expose the affair.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I absolutly will, 3am here, so will start trying to get hold of people tomorrow.

To add to the situation, the way they met was dog walking, the guy lives or used to live across the road from us, he obviously doesnt live there anymore, but his wife and 2 kids do.

Should I talk to her to see what she knows?


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## didntcitcoming (Oct 15, 2012)

Really feel for you brother. Look read my thread.....She literally just walked away.....Here is what you need to do

**no more spying....you already know the truth why punish yourself anymore
**Pack her sh1t in trash bags leave it outside call her to pick it up
**File for divorce NOW!!!!!
**Do NOT be her plan B. This b1tch just treated you like garbage why would you want her in your life??


Look here is the deal. There are like 6 BILLION people on the planet and half of them are women:smthumbup::smthumbup:

Go find an honorable one, they do exist....

After you read my thread you will understand. I have since finalized the divorce paperwork, lost 20 lbs., bought a brand new very expensive Porsche (monkey like shiny things!!), and started meeting women on an online dating website (dont want to advertise for them). Sign up for Facebook and friend request some of your old friends (They actually would like to hear from you, I did it). 

I know you have pain, we all do, but you have to move on....once a liar and a cheat....ALWAYS a liar and a cheat!!:smthumbup:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> I absolutly will, 3am here, so will start trying to get hold of people tomorrow.
> 
> To add to the situation, the way they met was dog walking, the guy lives or used to live across the road from us, he obviously doesnt live there anymore, but his wife and 2 kids do.
> 
> Should I talk to her to see what she knows?


Exposing the affair to posOMW is a great idea.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes to omw


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry to ignore some of the advice given.

I kept digging, and found another hotel booking for 20th July which is the weekend our baby would have been concieved.

I called up her friend who she keeps saying she is staying with, and she has told me that, they are no longer friends because she was being used as her excuse to be away and she didnt want to be.

So 100% confirmation now that she has been having an affair since at least July.

Snooping will now end.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

It just goes from bad to worst.
Get yourself tested for std's.

I want to change somthing In my post above, just tell the posomw that your wife lied to him by sending an email in your name to make herself look available and lure him in.

Still expose so you can control the narriative.

We see this in ww's they become almost evil in their selfishness.

She is not the same woman you thought she was.

You are not alone in this!
Take care.

(Edited- removed comment- there are no other children)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi Guys,

Well, I have finally reached the conclusion that my wife is insane.

I spent a few hours talking to the OM today, only he didnt know he was the OM, as he is trying to get back together with his wife.

She has told him that we where sleeping in seperate rooms for 6 months, hadnt told him about miscarriage, he showed me a booking of his own room for the weekend they went away, he had booked to go bird watching, she tagged along telling him I didnt want to go, she has said we arent reconciling whilst leading me on that we are.

Told him of the emails she had faked and showed him the real ones.

She claimed we hadnt seen each other for 4 weeks even though she had been living here for the last week, I showed him texts from her saying she was at counciling session and would be home after when she was finished, the day I found them together.

She kept calling while we where there clearly she was worried what we where discussing, He called her up and said that he couldnt see her anymore due to the lies she had been telling him and the impact he was having on our relationship.

She has gone bananas at me this afternoon, threatening all sorts, but hey ho, lifes a *****.

So it seems like since he seperated she has done everything she can to offer her self on a plate to him.

I have a marriage councilling session set up for saturday, I have no expectations and am not looking for a reconciliation just to gain more understanding of why this has all happened, plus I have been told by my Aunt that it helps get divorced quicker as you can demonstrate irreconcilable differences.

Couple of other things that I have done.

Packed up all her stuff, which is no gone. She cried when she collected them and couldnt look at me.
Secured savings out of reach for now as I know she wont be able to afford her new lifestyle, she went potty when she noticed and thinks I am the untrustful one.
Changed the locks on the house, only to find out it may be illegal and I could be forced to give her a key, no idea how that works.
Told her parents they claimed not to know, and are planning a surprise visit on her
Told our oldest friends a couple we have known for 10years 
I told them to not mention we had split up but just a kind of catch up call to see if she says anything and if she needs their support.

Right now she is seriously pee'd off, not the reason I did these things but makes me feel a little better  I imagine when she has calmed down she will be very sad, and also expect she will come round this evening for an argument, might take the dogs and go over to family out of the way, as I would like her to stew for a bit.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You still need to talk to posOMW.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

So, what is your goal ? Divorce her or get her back ?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Whatever you decide to do, go dark on her for now, put the "stew" on the back burner as it were.
This will take some time dont rush into anything.

Stamford you are a nice man!
Distance your self emotionall here, dont discuss it right now.

Tell her "I am not ok with discussing it right now".

Did he admit that they were sleeping together, or was it just their cars that were spending the night together?

It sounds like there may be some story telling and gas lighting going on here if they deny it.

Talk to the omw tell her everything, she needs to know this, even if you believe there was no pa (it seems like there was a pa) his behavor is very inappropriate for someone trying to get back with his wife.

Consider the possibility that she wants to help him get back with his wife but they plan to continue the affair thereafter. This may be one reason she is so pissed.

Good job so far, you are making the right moves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

How is it going Stamford? You doing ok?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

They often get quiet when it's time to talk to posOMW.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Kk, we're thinking about you Stamford.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Conrad is spot on, I can't bring myself to talk to her, she is on her own with 2 kids and I dont want to hurt her or upset her.

I didnt pick up this advice untill today about ignoring her.

We spent the day together on Friday, finally it feels like the truth is coming out and I will explain the full story probably going to be another really long post.

Last year she took a job working away from home, i was already working away, it caused us loads of issues, her company wasnt paying her full expenses so we had to pay, we had dog care to pay for, all the household chores ended up being done by me, and I couldnt cope and communicated that badly to her, looking back at times I was probably really awful.

She then started having difficulties at work, needed my support and I didnt give it to her as I just wanted her to quit her job and had done for months.

The other guy was there to listen and when I wouldnt she would go an see him. I can understand looking back why this happened, and I can't blame her 100% for this we have to share it.

Still have no evidence that they had seperate rooms etc but she claims she will get it.

I have so many questions to ask her, but the more I overwhelm her the less she is going to be willing to say. It feels like a situation that cant get resolved, how can I not want to ask questions all the time. When I am with her I am ok, but when I am apart all these thoughts whizz through my head.

We met again on Saturday for a marriage counselling session, it was just a intro I guess but is a start.

My head says to split, but I love my wife, and the truth is I just want to be with her. I know if it was an emotional affair I can forgive her, but rebuilding trust is will be so difficult that I really dont know how I will be able to get past it.

I just want my wife back, I want to be better, I want us to be better. I feel like such an idiot for saying that but, its how I feel.


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## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> They often get quiet when it's time to talk to posOMW.


Sir Conrad..you're a freak with this stuff.....

You need a radio show -the way things are going in this dispose your wife/hubbs/family moral standing today- you'll get the friday night drive home slot for sure


*jumps out of box......sorry to interrupt

stam>>>>listen to him... EXPOSE

STRENGTH and COURAGE to you


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Conrad is spot on, I can't bring myself to talk to her, she is on her own with 2 kids and I dont want to hurt her or upset her.


So, you believe you're going to nice her out of this.


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## didntcitcoming (Oct 15, 2012)

Conrad said:


> So, you believe you're going to nice her out of this.


Listen to Conrad!!!!:iagree:

He knows what he is talking about


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Imo that is how most betrayed husbands feel at this point, you just found out, feelings are not a on/off switch, some who go on to reconcile face that feeling for a while. Its your life we respect that, she has known whats up longer than you and has had time to adjust.

The question Conrad is asking speakes not to, how do you feel, but what is effective for your health and the best welfare of your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Telling omw may be a big factor in breaking any tie between him and your wife, she deserves to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

She knows now, she new nothing about it, says she asked him to leave, has recently asked him to come back, and he said he wasnt ready to.

Still have no evidence about the hotels, infact I have the opposite, I called up pretending to be him asking for a copy of my invoice for expenses, there was no room booked in his name.

My wife is adament nothing happened, I have seen her I guess every day since I spoke to OM, she has even introduced me at last to her female friend that she has been discussing this with. 

I have also seen her texts, and in it she does talk about wanting to reconcile with me, but her friend also asks her for dinner asking if she is to bring her new "friend" as a double date.

What I can't get my head around is:
1. Why if they where an item did they not move in together.
2. Why are they still denying anything happened when they have been caught.

I can only think its something to do with his kids.

My wife has also offered to do a lie detector test, I'm not sure how reliable they are, maybe we should.

I really cant get my head around why they would keep up the lies, I've already said I am past the anger stage and just want the truth no matter what that might be.


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## didntcitcoming (Oct 15, 2012)

stamford said:


> She knows now, she new nothing about it, says she asked him to leave, has recently asked him to come back, and he said he wasnt ready to.
> 
> Still have no evidence about the hotels, infact I have the opposite, I called up pretending to be him asking for a copy of my invoice for expenses, there was no room booked in his name.
> 
> ...




Oh boy .....I think the constant lies are what hurt me the most....I even caught her coming out of the pub with the posOM, he kissed her goodnight at her car!!! Now, our son (18+) was with me and saw the whole thing as well!!:smthumbup: She lied so hard and was so convinceing about it that I would have started to doubt what I saw if he had not been with me to see it for himself. She would just continue to lie, lie lie......You can't believe anything that comes out of their mouthes!!:scratchhead: It's all part of the script of the liar cheater. She is NOT the woman you used to know....sorry, that lady os long gone...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford,

If you read these threads you will see this all the time. They often dont give much thought to the future, they just live in the present and do what we call cake eating.

There are different kinds of affairs, for example in an "exit" affair they would have moved in together, thats probably not what this was. But she is a major cake eater and you cannot believe a word she says. You may still be able to save it but she has to come a long way before you will know the truth.

When confronted the wife often tries to stay with the husband. why would they do that if they have chosen the other guy already, because they chose the fantasy and the "in the moment feelings" over their spouse. But not an honest life together, that ruins the fantasy.

Often (almost always) they will try to stay with the spouse and take it underground.

Your wife is standing between this POSOM and his family, his kids are waiting "BUT HE ISNT READY".

Stamford dont believe for a minute this did not go physical- schedule that damm test!

We will help you with how to do it.

Get the texts she deleted also any other phone logs.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford, Its 2:30 in the morning here in the US midwest and I'm still up painting a room. One more wall to do then Im retireing.

I hope I was not to forward on my last post, I dont want to be the ugly american, 

I should stay away from the keyboard and finish that wall, but...


I think that if your wife is considering reconciling, then she is testing the waters with you to see if there is an emotional connection before she decides.

She may know that some things would be a deal breaker for you and she does not want to give them up. Most WW's dont, what they dont realize is how much damage this trickle truth does to the husbands trust and confidense.

It looks like her "nest" to land in is an emotional connection. If she ever actually tries to reconcile, when will she be truthful.

Stamford it seems to me that she has not been honest in any of this, only when she cannot deny it does she admit it. If then.
(typical for a WS).

If by reconclie she means you two get back together, but you live without the whole truth, that is not reconciliation its what we call rug sweeping.

How will you ever know it is really done if the truth isnt forthcomming?

What will prevent this from happening again if she dosnt face the truth?

Dont rely on circumstances to prevent this from happening, this boundary has to be a matter of character.

She may not be ready until om is ready, making you a plan "B". 
Can you live with her setteling for you?

Is she still justifying this in her own mind?

How will she find true remorse?
Typically (but not often) the BS files for divorce and the fear of loss motivates the spouse to come out of the fog, take responsibility, show true remorse (in action),do the heavy lifting to mend the marriage.

In your case maybe if you reestablish the connection and she wants to reconcile at that point if you tell her she is still a cheater and you cant reconcile with a cheater who is unremorsefull, then withdraw, step back and wait, observe the response, will she break at the thought of losing you, if so, then maybe that is somthing to work with.

I'm really just looking at the situation, at what you are doing, and trying to think of a way it could work.

We have certain principles we aply here, just trying to relate them.
Another poster may be able to flesh it out better.

But I think you need a plan of action, only actions help in these situations, you cannot talk to a woman like she is a man especially a cheating woman, you cannot get through to them.

Keep nuturing her along but think these things through before taking any big steps, (I know you are).

If you decide to reconcile we will support you in any way we can.


Time to finish that wall,

Take care!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford,

Wayward spouses rarely go for their "Plan B"

If "Plan A" doesn't work out, they interview for a new "Plan A"


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## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> stamford,
> 
> Wayward spouses rarely go for their "Plan B"
> 
> If "Plan A" doesn't work out, they interview for a new "Plan A"





I didn't like reading that one Mr Conrad


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

oncehisangel said:


> I didn't like reading that one Mr Conrad


Then don't be Plan B


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Guys this is all really really helpful, and I thank each of you.

I have seen her every day since friday, she has told me she regrets moving out and wants to come back home, but she isnt 100% sure. She’s asked me to stay over a couple of times as well, but I have refused. I have told her, that I dont want her coming home, that I want a partner who loves me, in the same way that I love them, and if I can't get it with her, then we have to end our marriage so that I can move on.

We are emailing each other a lot, but I dont plan on seeing her for at least a few days.

The realisation I guess hit me, after all that has happened do I want this woman back, can I forgive her? can I move on? At first I wasnt sure, but now I am, the simple answer is yes I do, and yes I can.

I wont be plan B though, I'm going back to basics, best face forward, dropping the questioning, remembering how we where when we first met.

When the time comes, and if I ever get to the truth, at least I will have the option to make the best decision for me, and will have got some practice in the dating department which sadly I am lacking 

I am trying now to distance myself emotionally, not from her, but what she has done.

I would regret not trying.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford, 
I completely understand and respect your feelings.
In one sense a truly remorseful spouse who knows how badly they have
hurt their partner is more aware of the damage that an affair can cause.

Both partners can be more aware of the need to cherish the relationship.

One thing that wives say that affected them the most was seeing the hurt and pain and utter lostness in their husbands eyes, very powerful, during times of honesty be sure this comes through.

Consider carefully before you have children with her, it would be soooo much harder if this does not go away. Dont have them to "seal the deal"

I so concerned about om, will you be living near him still, so she has to see him all the time? (If you get back together)

Also will she agree to complete transparency on all phones, computers, face book, emails.

Will she agree to carry a phone that can be tracked?

If she is remorseful she will not object to your terms.

If you have not read MMSL yet get it on your kindle its not about sex as nuch as how to stay attractive to your woman over the long hall.

Later when Im at a computer I will post some things that are helpful with reconcilation.

I hope she will give you the truth you need for some closure.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks.

I don't know if some of you guys do this for a living, but you keep hitting the nail on the head, she has said the minute she realised how hurt I was and how much I loved her she wanted to come home.

Children wont happen for a long time I dont think, my current intention would be to sell our house, split the money and rent somewhere together so that we can both walk away if things dont work. She would like to stay in the house and redecorate, OM wife lives accross the road, he is there maybe once a month, unless they get back together and then he will be seen every day, I am adament we will not stay in our current home.

I have the password to her phone, and email, and work laptop, although battery was dead when i went on last night, so I will be checking history and emails etc.

I dont plan on seeing her today or tomorrow, we had already arranged dinner on friday, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to let her stay over if she wants so that OMW see's the car allnight, dont know if this will.
1. Make her think nothing is wrong
2. Make her tell him which will either
a. Make him call her
b. Make him stay away

Could do with some advise on how to play things.

Should I be checking to see if she is where she says she is at nights? As this might give me some indication as to whether or not as soon as my back is turned they are off together.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Just to add she said she would do a lie detector test costs £600/$1000 so I might wait a week or 2 to see how things go as its an expense I could do without at the minute, especially if things go nowhere.

MMSG I havent downloaded, wish I had listened to you earlier, instead I got Men are from Mars Women are from Venus. I will make sure I get it this evening and start the homework.

Going to really start listening to you guys more now, feeling a little level headed and realise quite a lot of things I have done over the last month have been the wrong things to do.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Just to add she said she would do a lie detector test costs £600/$1000 so I might wait a week or 2 to see how things go as its an expense I could do without at the minute, especially if things go nowhere.
> 
> MMSG I havent downloaded, wish I had listened to you earlier, instead I got Men are from Mars Women are from Venus. I will make sure I get it this evening and start the homework.
> 
> Going to really start listening to you guys more now, feeling a little level headed and realise quite a lot of things I have done over the last month have been the wrong things to do.


Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself: Melody Beattie: 9780894864025: Amazon.com: Books


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## didntcitcoming (Oct 15, 2012)

Conrad said:


> stamford,
> 
> Wayward spouses rarely go for their "Plan B"
> 
> If "Plan A" doesn't work out, they interview for a new "Plan A"


True, true, true......He knowithwhat he speakith!!! I have recently talked to a few people who had this happen to them and they said the exact same thing...::iagree::iagree:

Stamford.....You clearly don't trust her, and for good reason. Now, here's the thing, WHY would you stay with someone who has done this to you???!!!!!!!:scratchhead::scratchhead:

She feels bad...BECAUSE THE OTHER SITUATION DIDN'T WORK OUT.....not because you are hurting.

Look she is NOT and I repeat NOT the same person you fell in love with.....that lady is long gone. And thank god, and I mean you really better thank god, that you found out who she really is before you had a bunch of kids and you were completely wound together financially!!!

MOVE ON brother.....she did it once.....SHE WILL DO IT AGAIN WHEN THE OPPURTUINITY PRESENTS ITSELF....and it may not be as easy for you to walk away!!!

Remember, there like 6 BILLION people on the planet....and the good news is about half (3,000,000,000) of them are WOMEN!!!:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:....Go find yourself a good one they are out there.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford, 
Just a quck post, I have more to post later.
If you have some way to confirm where she is at night (maybe a drive by?) I would do it!
It is not any different than checking her phone or email.

At this point she has given you up very little that gives you any confidence in her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford,
I’m going to plaster a couple posts up here. Just some things to think about. Not really looking for a reply unless you are inclined for some reason.

You mentioned the awkwardness of dating again.
Can we talk like a couple of mates about some of the basics? We are both grown men and know much of this already. I am not trying to play myself off as a dating expert. I actually want to make some points about your situation, and this will provide a good context.

Typically a single male has his radar up for any available females. Some men are more reserved and their radar is up but somewhat undetectable. Two extremes.

BTW I have two sons in college (4 kids total 2b 2g, 3 in college, 1 grads HS this year) my two sons are at each extreme (v.s.), both have dated gorgeous girls and have had to run form girls who were obsessing over them, it’s funny really.

The one thing they both do is cultivate friendship/relationships with women in their proximity.

This is a common approach. you can meet and talk with a woman in a non-threating circumstance where the focus in not on them. Smile, make eye contact, MAKE THEM LAUGH, and then move on. 

Next time they see you they want to say hi again because it was a pleasant time. Again smile, eye contact, listen, laugh, stand just a little closer, (no compliments),make sympathetic guttural agreement sounds, look like you are into what they are saying, ask questions that request self -disclosure of them, what do you think about this or that, how do you feel about this or that, what would you do in this or that situation??? Observe, maybe mirror their behavior a bit, it was good talking with you, move on.

Don’t focus on one person; talk to as many women as you can, develop the skill of relating to a woman on a casual level in a way she enjoys. Practice everywhere, at the store, parking lot where ever something gives you a chance to start a conversation. Be casual smile move on, as you see woman responding to you, your confidence will grow.

This is all still on the casual level. As you do this you will recognize that some of these woman you would never consider actually dating but they may have friends you would, and if you like people some maybe fun to spent time in a conversation with, and that’s as far as it will ever go. That door swings both ways.

Generally the boundary for moving to a more intimate level (not even dating yet) is touch.

Women generally don’t see touch as initially sexual (even though it is) if you have regular conversations with a woman and at a moment where there is a laugh or an expression of understanding or sympathy, (something like wow, your boss was really unreasonable there, with a touch) a light touch on an arm between the wrist and elbow or a brief gentile hand on the shoulder will advance the relationship, they will feel closer to you after that, probably next time you see them they will return a touch in some way.

At this point the relationship could turn in a romantic direction.

In a male whose radar is reserves and who is somewhat unaware of the progression of a relationship, this can be imperceptible, if he is rather passive the female my actually escalate, by touching and he will think, hummm I think she likes me. (The say a man chases a woman until she catches him ) .

These guys have “NO GAME” (which is ok I guess) but meet their wives get married, then divorced and wonder how to ever meet another woman because it just happened the last time.

Generalities are only true generally, and I could take some flak from woman for what I am writing.

-Disclaimer-Let me make it clear that a good person does not lead a woman on with false intention, just because women are wired different than men is no reason to take advantage of that difference, that is what integrity is all about.
My own boundary is before the point of touch, and personnel questions; I maintain a casual distance, and casual conversation. I am married, if my wife would not like to see it that is a boundary for me. But I like to laugh and share and have fun too.

Here is the transition point, as the conversations become more intimate (not talking about flirting here) a “RELAZATION” will dawn upon the woman, are you ready “I’m starting to have feelings for you” they are going to want to know if you have them too. 

When two people express their feelings for each other the woman is hooked, the brain chemicals that cause bonding are released and a physical relationship is on its way.

If both people are single, available and honestly feel the same they can explore a relationship together with no guilt. Hopefully, honesty, truthfulness and trust are established, as they continue down the road of mutual self-disclosure.

If you have not been doing it I would encourage you to practice this up to your personnel boundary, cultivate as many casual relationships with woman as possible, honor you marriage vows but this will help you be objective about the potential success of you current marriage.

As you see that woman will respond to you, your confidence will grow, you need this to make a good choice for your future.
This is a pro-marriage support forum and I am in line with that. But I want you to be as objective as possible.

You do not want to be your wife’s plan “B”, yet I ask you, is she your plan “B” are you settling for her because its familiar, maybe easier since you already have a connection than the scary dating world, she is a known factor, her emotions and personality are imprinted in you brain, also she is willing(maybe) , and as a man and her husband you want to reclaim her with everything that is in you.

What is she bringing to the relationship? 
She is not the prize you thought she was. 
You love her I know.

Stamford,
I believe why this is important is your decision to reconcile or not with your wife is based, in part, on your level of confidence in your ability to attract and keep a viable mate

You may not know it but you are a very marketable commodity.

If you are in relatively good shape, reasonable looking, then add in that you are hardworking, responsible, faithful, affectionate, no kids, you would be amazed how many woman would be attracted to you. Plus you have a story, your wife to whom you were faithful, cheated on you, broke your heard and destroyed everything the two of you were building. That is a big plus, it makes you safer, and a woman wants to fill a void in your heart, it’s almost irresistible.

I actually am not trying to talk you into anything, really, just trying to give you some perspective.

(Btw it’s at this point in some threads where the poster says “Oh by the way I have been having a two year affair on my wife also, hands are thrown up, heads shake, everyone agrees you should cut your losses reset the relationship and move on or split up, so nothing to confess I hope?)

Let me return to our relationship progression above, and this is a little hard to type.

Here is you wife, feeling lonely because of the plans you two had agreed on, maybe feeling abandoned a bit, needy, neglected, mad at you for the situation.

She is out walking her dog and meets your neighbor, they talk a bit laugh, its fun, they look forward to doing it again, seems innocent enough.
Only problem is his radar is up and because he is a POS, he considers every female available or at least available for a little flirting or ego boost. 

The other factor is your wife is open to a little attention LIFT, and peruses the experience.

Before you know it guess what “I HAVE FEELINGS FOR YOU”, the talking, the light touching has happened, no boundaries were observed, now as you describe she is lying to him about her availability, (he is probably more than willing anyway), they have at least an EA.

At this point you ask, How could she do this? Why would she do this?
Husbands often say “My wife was always so against cheating I can’t believe it”
The cheating wives often say “I never thought I would be someone who cheats”
The reality of the situation is, in general people don’t go into a relationship thinking they will cheat.
When they see someone who did they don’t feel anything in common with them.

They can’t imagine a situation where they would cheat. Cheaters have the hardest time with this after they return; they can’t explain why they did it.

People just don’t know their own hearts, if they cheated they always had it in them, the situation just revealed it, part of reconciliation is identifying the thinking that lead to the disloyalty and learning through suffering to not cross that boundary. 

That of course is if they are remorseful and willing to face the truth and work on it.

After the fact, now you know that you are a person that would cheat understand the right circumstances, this requires a change in the way you views yourself.

We think they have always been nice to me and they love me so they must be a good person, we are basing our opinion on how they treat us not on why the do what they do, i.e. their personal character
The un-examined life may not be worth living but it remains the status quo!

Here is what I see, when a woman feels neglected she feels entitled to find her needs elsewhere.
She does not feel married, it is just simple selfishness.
Sometimes it sneaks up on her. She goes through the progression of relationships and realized “SHE DEVELOPED FEELINGS” for someone else.
At some point early they know they are crossing the line, they excuse it, period!

THIS IS WHO THEY ARE AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, the circumstance just revealed it.
Let me hasten to add that they can learn and grow from this absolutely!!!

We often begin with our wife’s on a pedestal and believe them to be better than they are, (and they us).

Stamford you said you want to get back to where you two were before. The universal experience of couples who reconcile is that it is impossible. 

The relationship will never be what it was. There is no going back up on the pedestal. That does not mean it can’t be good, it just can never be the same.
There is no ignoring it. The couple has to accept this in order to move forward. THE ORIGINAL MARRIAGE, TRUST, HONESTY, FAITH IS GONE! The relationship will have to be rebuilt, new trust, new self-disclosure, and new goals.

I admit to weaving several purposes in this post. I hope that does not make it to difficult to follow.
I’m not trying to write a book but just trying to cover some things.

Take care!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Ok here is another one.

This is a guide for a cheating spouse to understand what the betrayed spouse id going through and how to help them heal. I dont know i your wife would read it but use it how it seems best.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/55934-my-wife-has-completely-destroyed-me-10.html
Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Here is a link about the 180.

the 180 is used to distance yourself emotionall and prepare for divorce, it can be modified for other purposes.

The Healing Heart: The 180

and the last resort link.

The last resort link
http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/how-to-prevent-a-divorce-the-last-resort-technique/


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

stamford said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I dont plan on seeing her today or tomorrow, we had already arranged dinner on friday, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to let her stay over if she wants so that OMW see's the car allnight, dont know if this will.
> 1. Make her think nothing is wrong
> ...


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Decorum thank you so much for taking the time to put this altogether.

I dont believe our relationship will ever be what it was, it will either get better, or worse, but not the same, my initial comment on dating was me dating her lol, in a way I am viewing the old marriage as over, and trying to work out if a new one can begin, though the tips are invaluable and I may look to start practicing more for a confidence point of view.

How you talk about there relationship beginning is exactly how it would have started, I don't blame my wife entirely, the first half of the year was tough for us with lots of changes (jobs/finances/home life) and we/I didnt communicate those issues well. I can see the part I played in all of this.

I know people will think I am mad etc, but I can't help feeling that for me to move on as a person either with her or without, I need to understand my own failings, so that it doesn't happen in the future, and I really would regret not trying with her again.

I don't intend on reconciling unless I truely believe she desires/wants/needs me, I will not be plan B, I want to become plan A. So I will put the effort in to get there and if I don't, or my gut tells me things still are not quit right, then believe me when I say I won't settle or be settled for.

It is food for thought though, what if I win her heart again, but during the process decide she doesn't give me what I want anymore, I hadn't considered that untill you asked what she brings to the relationship, what if it is nothing. I think the only thing I can do is keep all of my options open, and they won't be if I shut her out.

I spoke to her on the phone last night for quite a while, she talked about redecorating our house, booking a holiday, but then she made a comment which I don't know if I am over analysing, she said she thinks she will have moved back in by new year, is it normal for women to have a timeline in there mind? or could there be more to it? I think I am reading to much into it to be perfectly honest.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

You're welcome,
I do wish you well. I shared what I did just for a different perspective. Its good to get up to 50000 feet and look down on the landscape.

I'm laughing at your last paragraph. Serious avoidance! Has she always been this way?



Would you mind describing you wife? I'm gonna list some questions.
If its to much I understand.

1.the number of her siblings and their birth order, (Did you say you two are in your 30's)

2. Raised by 2 birth parents? Did they stay married? How did they get along? How did she get along with them?

3. Any history of abuse or abandonment?

4. Any early childhood diseases ?

5. How old were you two when you met?

6. Did she date much before you met?

7. Is she reserved or outgoing?

8 Approx. height and weight?

9. Does she take any medication?

10. Is she prone to mood swings? ( yes I know she is a woman)

11.Has she had a checkup lately with a full panel blood screen (with t3 t4)?

12 Is she a very traditional woman?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Not quite sure how to do multi quotes.

We should probably have been anlysed a long time ago 

She is Indian English I am white English, when we first started dating her parents didnt approve, when we moved in together they didnt speak to her for 4-5 years, not until we where married, we get along fine now.

_I'm laughing at your last paragraph. Serious avoidance! Has she always been this way?_
Always yes, everything is always someone else's fault, at work mainly.

_Would you mind describing you wife? I'm gonna list some questions.
If its to much I understand.

1.the number of her siblings and their birth order, (Did you say you two are in your 30's)_

She has 1 brother who is younger, she always told me when she was younger he was the favourite and was expected to achieve a lot, he hasn't, she is 32 next week he was 29 this year and still lives at home, and only got a job i think in the last 12 months.

_2. Raised by 2 birth parents? Did they stay married? How did they get along? How did she get along with them?_

She was raised by 2 birth parents, they stayed married, but don't really get along, from what I understand there was some domestic violence, her mum was not allowed to work, they have slept in seperate rooms for best part of 15 years, i also believe her nan used to be quite abusive to her mum.

I believe her mum suffers a little from depression, she sleeps a lot of the day, doesnt take much care of herself, and tries to keep her brother from growing up.

_3. Any history of abuse or abandonment?_

I think above probably answers this one, none really directly to her, as far as I know she was spoilt as a child 

_4. Any early childhood diseases ?_

Nope apart from a kidney problem in her teens.

_5. How old were you two when you met?_

She was 19 I was 18, we married at 24 and 23, now are 31/30

_6. Did she date much before you met?_

She has said I was the first person she slept with, when we first met she had a boyfriend who was older, has never really mentioned anyone else.

_7. Is she reserved or outgoing?_

She is outgoing, everyone who meets her loves her. She easily connects with people, even if she doesnt like them, they still like her.

_8 Approx. height and weight?_

5ft 9in around I guess 145lbs

_9. Does she take any medication?_

Not ongoing prescibed no, she takes calms tablets, and has had some medication for the miscarriage

_10. Is she prone to mood swings? ( yes I know she is a woman)_

Yes, mostly anger/frustration, not at me, just in general, they have gotten worse this year though, and at the moment, are all over the place.

_11.Has she had a checkup lately with a full panel blood screen (with t3 t4)?_

Lots of blood tests over the last 6 months due to pregnancy and before when we where trying.

_12 Is she a very traditional woman?_

I wouldnt say so, this is actually a more difficult question than it sounds because, I think she likes the idea of being traditional, but doesnt want to be, for example, she wants to work, drive flash cars, but then she also wants a family and to not work. I think she is at the time of life for a woman when they are unsure which path to follow, if you know what I mean.


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## oncehisangel (Oct 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then don't be Plan B


you and your 2x4 lines


that was more of a fast spinning Glock to the back of the head... 




love your work
and
got it


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Ha ha ha ha, oncehisangle are you conrads alter-ego?

Stamford,
Thanks so much for replying. Her blameshifting is a major avoidance device.

I was actually talking about her assuming she was moving back in and already dreaming about domestic details like decorating. Do you guys use a phrase like "the elephant in the room" i.e. the thing everyone sees but but one talks about, thats what I meant, you're broken and she wants to hang new drapes.

Granted I dont know what you guys have agreed upon with regard to getting back together, but it seemed a little self focused.

Actually your answer to the last question clears it up a bit. (Being Triditional)
Have you ever read the book the Five Love Languages, its premise is that we each feel loved in different ways based on how we score over these 5 ranges, and we tend to show love bases on our own love language. Oddly this can result in two people completely
faling to properly love the other person or to feel loved by them.

An example, one persons language is physical touch (this is simplified) anothers is acts of service, being unaware each person does their own thing and each person feels unloved or neglected.
Obviously the goal is to understand and speak the other persons language.
(Ok this was a giant plug for the book, but also...)

In a similar way, from a cultural point of view Mrs. stamford may be trying to show you respect in a culturally primal way (without realizing it), buy fulfilling these duties. Maybe some avoidance but she is seeing herself in that role again. Am I over analyzing it? 

I think the time frame she mentioned is her looking for assurance, and security.

Did yiou ever check on her where-a-bouts at night?

Ok, gotta go, Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

She was at home last night, I wasnt going to check, but then I called her, she didnt answer, the mind ran, and I took a wonder over, the lights where on, car was there, then she called back and we spoke for I guess 30mins.

I haven't read that book, to be honest, my love life is pretty much the only thing I have just let take its course, massive mistake clearly  I think it could be an interesting read, as we do see some things differently and didnt realise untill recently. For example, when I grew up, my parents had 4 kids and not much money, so xmas was a big thing and birthdays, that was when we got presents, when she grew up, xmas was not really celebrated and her parents brought her presents throughout the year, so in our marriage, we have both simulated that, and she thought I didnt buy her lots of small presents because I didnt care, whereas its actually because that kind of gesture doesnt register with me as giving love, large presents do. Subtle things make/would have made all the difference.

I am hoping little things like this, and her fear of ending up like her mum and dad can all be worked out in the councelling sessions, for the time being I guess I am slightly burying my own issues with the affair, but then what else can I do, if I want this to work, I feel we have to fix her first and then me, as there is no point fixing me, if she cant be, if that makes sense.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

The standard approach here is when the affair is discovered, you gather evidence, file divorce papers, confront her, give her the papers, expose the affair to everyone, including omw, go dark on her or at least do the 180. If she comes crawling back to reconcile, she agrees to no contact with other man , writes him an nc letter, gets in counceling, and follows a list of other terms.

This is the shock and awe approach. Somtimes it is quite effective.
I'm not a purest when it comes to this, so I'm a bit of an outcast here, meh.

There is a poster called wazza that took a softer approach, he is an active poster, you could pm him, im sure he would give you some insights from his own experience that would be helpful.

I will post a link to him later at a computer.

Some times I think its good to deal with some issues in the marriage before a strong arm approach.
It can strengthen your hand.

My two concerns are,
1.How will she come to take full responsibility for her cheating and show true remorse (in action).
2.will she do the heavy lifting necessary to help you heal and the two of you to move on together.

If you pm wazza I would ask him about these.
I would like to see you two work this out if thats what you want.

Feel free to pm me as well if you have a question or you posted somthing you would like me to see.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Here is Wazza profile,
Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Wazza


If you want to pm him, tell him someone mentioned some of his posting's and you wounder if he could stop by your thread, you woud appreciate any insights he might have from his own experience.

just a thought.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> I feel we have to fix her first and then me, as there is no point fixing me, if she cant be, if that makes sense.


It sounds ok, but in reality it doesn't work.

You have to be right with you first.

It's the only way.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It sounds ok, but in reality it doesn't work.
> 
> You have to be right with you first.
> 
> It's the only way.


Hi Conrad...not sure I agree with you here.

I read through the thread a few hours ago and am mulling it over. But there are problems on both sides to be fixed. I think if Stamford just works on himself she might be gone by the time it's her turn.

I'm dead certain that if she wants to keep running around and telling lies nothing is going to change. That doesn't make it hopeless...my wife went through that. We are very happy now, but after a long and painful journey.

Stamford, is your wife normally a person of great integrity? Is lying like this out of character for her generally? Or is this typical of how she rolls, except you never thought she would do it with you?

And prior to this, what views did you both have on divorce? 

I agree with Decorum's point that shock and awe is the normal TAM approach. I certainly think it has its place but I don't totally agree with it. People will tell you it's counterintuitive but works. Well, ask them for reliable statistics to prove this. They usually come back saying they have observed repeating patterns in TAM. I'm sure they have, but I think it's because those who have a different view go places where they can get more relevant advice for their circumstances.

Was my approach softer? Well when my wife didn't end the affair I didn't throw her out. But I didn't say "That's ok" and I did withdraw from the marriage to a point. I stayed for the children, and my initial focus was to rebuild an effective co-parenting relationship. If we had not had children, we would probably have divorced. In your shoes I would probably be saying..."You think you will be back by January. What makes you think I will just have you back?"

Any way, if you answer my questions I'll try and think of things that worked for me and might help you.

Whatever happens, hang in there and look after yourself.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I had second thoughts about the word softer.
Maybe Hybird?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Decorum said:


> I had second thoughts about the word softer.
> Maybe Hybird?


I'm flattered that you called it an approach 

But yes, I think you have to do your best to find what works.

Look. The first thing is that my wife is a decent person committed to values (So how could she have an affair in the first place you ask? Happy to discuss if this point concerns you.) And her affair partner was in it for sex so there was no hope of a long term relationship. Given time she was going to come good. Easy to say 22 years after the event, but knowing so at the time was obviously not so easy.

The second thing is, I guess I did something not unlike the 180. I became polite but cold to her, threw myself into exercise, took my wedding ring off, stuff like that. The old marriage was dead and we had to build a new one.

The TAM idea of going nuclear...had I done that she would have come home from seeing the OM and found her stuff in bags on the front porch. The idea is that forces a decision, and if the decision is divorce it was always going to be anyway. Well I don't agree with that. But I can say that living with someone you love who is seeing another man is soul destroying.

Expose, expose. I told her parents and asked them to support her at a time when I thought we were through. She tells me they never pushed her to fix the marriage, though I think they told her she ha to make things work and wasn't coming home. They were never going to take my side. I'm convinced that wide exposure often just gets the exposer labelled a nut job and cuts off friendships that could support reconciliation. I have no doubt it would have made things worse in my case.

You should never stay for the kids, I read a lot. Well I did.

A cheater is a defective person I read. Well I think we are all defective. Some cheaters intend to be moral and you can work with them. Others care only about getting away with it. I don't know how you could reconcile with someone like that.

So you can see where I disagree with some commonly held views on TAM and where my earlier questions were coming from.

Now, when I write all this stuff, someone usually says "Great that it worked for you, but that's rare. You are unusual." Maybe. I don't know. Like I said before, no one has yet produced hard numbers to back such an assertion.

But what works for other couples is useful for getting ideas, but what really matters is what works in my marriage. That is what I was rebuilding.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Wazza,

I don't think you're reading for content. Or, at least, you're not understanding what my words mean.

"Fixing stamford"

That doesn't mean creating body armor that ensures he doesn't feel anything. It's about centering himself psychologically so he has a better chance of saying the right thing at the right time.

Fixing himself so the intense pain of the betrayal doesn't cloud his judgement, make him fearful, and cause him to devalue himself.

When we see through ourselves (fix ourselves), our words may still be direct and truthful, but they're wrapped in love.

The clingy, needy, hanging on for the sake of hanging on has a very low probability of getting any self-affirming outcome.

Will this result in us standing up for ourselves? Absolutely. It also accounts for the huge increases in attractiveness such behavior generates.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Wazza,
> 
> I don't think you're reading for content. Or, at least, you're not understanding what my words mean.
> 
> ...


Maybe.

He has our input, he can decide what to synthesise from it.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Wazza,
Thanks for stopping in, ive read your situation before and now I understand what elements helped make it work. Stanford isnt prolific but im sure he'll check in.

I did not mean to recreate "the Clash of the Titians" 

I just dont have much more to offer here, I realized again today that this isnt in CWI. Oh well.

Im am going to make some observations from his last posts, so take em for what they are worth.

1.His wife has a fear of ending up in a loveless relationship like her mother.
2. His wife is more self focused, experience oriented, and entitled (he says spoiled), then I realized.
3. There are some cultural impearatives in her thinking that seem to be a hidden dynamic.
4. She can win people easily, but seems naive, and immature (this may be that cultural thing).

Wazza, I am interseted in his answers to you ?'s.

"Approach" ok I'm a bit pedantic (.50 cent word) , but you made some "in flight corrections" that worked for you, dont know if they can be applied here or not.

Conread, I too like to read your posts, and benefit from them, no "diss" intended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Wazza,
> 
> I don't think you're reading for content. Or, at least, you're not understanding what my words mean.
> 
> ...





Wazza said:


> Maybe.
> 
> He has our input, he can decide what to synthesise from it.


Was not concentrating when I wrote the last post I quoted above. Not my finest hour.

I cannot imagine Stamford being able to centre himself while this situation exists. I get what you are saying Conrad (at least I think I do) and I think there is room for what both of us are saying to coexist.

The big problem with how I approach this whole thing is that I start from the assumption you have to assess the situation and set strategy accordingly and that is soooooo hard when you are in the middle of it.

That's where TAM can help....provides a sanity check for what you think you are seeing.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi, Sorry for the slow response not really been on much over the weekend.



Wazza said:


> Stamford, is your wife normally a person of great integrity? Is lying like this out of character for her generally? Or is this typical of how she rolls, except you never thought she would do it with you?
> 
> And prior to this, what views did you both have on divorce?


1. I would say she has/had integrity, but not great, but then everyones view is different, for example I would never park in disabled bays she would. But I would never in a million years believed she would cheat on me or anyone else.

2. She works in sales, and lying/exagerating is a part of her daily job I guess, she is very very good at talking people into things/bargaining, I never really noticed it in a personal capacity though.

3. She never really lyed about personal things, or to friends etc.

4. I had never really thought about divorce before, she has said in the past she would never remarry, and also said she has said divorce would be a last option, she always refers to her parents and would say things like I grew up believing divorce wasnt an option.

Things have moved on a little since I last posted.

She spent the day at our house on Friday, we had dinner and she stayed over. Saturday we spent the day together, we took her Jaguar back to the dealer and sold it to them, she said she views this as an end, although clearly its not for me, but I guess in some ways its symbolic. She stayed over again Saturday night.

Sunday we went looking for new cars for her trade down, she bought a 10year old porsche, so I guess she isnt completely grounded but its a 3rd of the cost.

Sunday afternoon, she started talking about needing to go and get more clothes to stay over again, I was a little surprised, but figured why not, stops me wondering where she is I guess. When we went to her rented place I cooked some dinner, and she packed half her clothes and gave me the keys to the rented place and said she wants to move back in.

I am pleased about this dont get me wrong, but it feels like its happening to quick, and I've got myself in a position whereby if I say hold on not sure I am ready, she might take that as complete rejection. 

We have councilling tomorrow, I think thats the best place to raise it.

She still denies being physical, and I think my biggest concern is that we are going to rebuild our relationship on a lie, and if that is a lie, then her reasons for wanting to be with me could also be a lie.

Sometimes I cant help feeling that he rejected her after I spoke to him and thats the only reason she is coming back, it must be that or she is telling the truth.

We are getting along great, there are little triggers for me, like we went past a restaruant and there was a que outside, she said its always quing havent been in there yet, and I imediatly started wondering where she had been etc.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I can't tell you whether she has or has not been physical. And if she has, how much...what constitutes physical...

I can say that moving in so quickly strikes me as a good sign. I was not at all impressed with "I'll play the field but might be back by January."

Triggers...trust issues....you just have to deal with the triggers as they come, and work to rebuild trust. Triggers are really horrible, and they happen when you would least expect. 

Women in affairs go a bit crazy and do out of character things. It is quite possible that she will be very ashamed of what she has done, and hurt by it, as she comes down from the affair. She could use your support.

On the other hand she is guilty of betraying you and needs to support you.

So what do you think. Reconciliation is going to be hard work. Do you want her back? Really? (Not trying to talk you out of it...just making sure you are sure).


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I do want her back, but only if its what she wants as well, and not because she feels she should, or thinks there is no alternative.

I also kind of understand that there will still be little white lies as she tries to protect my feelings, but, I guess I need to feel like her story about their relationship and what it was, is the truth.

Its very difficult at the moment as I am torn, as you say on 1 side I need her to show me that she wants me, wants to reconcile, on the other I need to support her. I hope the counciling starts to help, as at the moment I try to keep a lot of how I feel to one side, I'm hoping it will help her understand more about the support I need from her.

No idea if any of the above makes sense, it does in my head.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Are you working on improving your personal attractiveness?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Not sure I full understand, the question.

If you mean physically, yes I guess so, when we started trying for a baby I started to lose weight and have dropped 75lbs, I weigh less now than when we got married.

I am probably dressing a little smarter since she left, have had to buy new clothes etc.

I am reading some self improvement books on communication, as I think thats where our problem first stemmed from, and MMS guide, to try to ensure we are connecting better.

Is that what you mean, or can I/should I do more?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Not sure I full understand, the question.
> 
> If you mean physically, yes I guess so, when we started trying for a baby I started to lose weight and have dropped 75lbs, I weigh less now than when we got married.
> 
> ...


Are you pursuing hobbies and/or new interests with passion?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Afraid not, this has kind of become everything that is going on right now.

We have spoken together about finding new hobbies to do with each other, but I haven't looked in to any individual ones.

My only real hobby is motorcycling, not really the right time of year.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

lol, just realised as I hit send that we usually ride together as well, she goes pillian.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Afraid not, this has kind of become everything that is going on right now.
> 
> We have spoken together about finding new hobbies to do with each other, but I haven't looked in to any individual ones.
> 
> My only real hobby is motorcycling, not really the right time of year.


Do things for yourself.

It makes you quite a bit more mysterious and interesting.

Have you seen the movie "Blue Valentine"?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Nope, never heard of it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Nope, never heard of it.


Rent it at Blockbuster and watch it.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Not having a great day today, I feel like I am still being lied to, my gut instinct is telling me something is wrong, I just can't understand the motive now.

Yesterday on the way home we stopped to get some bits from the shop, I ran into the shop and when I came out, the mrs who was in the car had her head down as if she was looking at the phone. When i got in the car, no phone in hand but her handbag was and was at the right angle to have quickly stuffed it in.

Anyway, moving on, the mrs has a tablet thing like an ipad that belongs to him, when we left her rented place i asked her to bring it so I could give it back to him, she said it was in her bags, this was sunday, I searched her bags and couldnt find it. I asked again last night and she said she was too tired to find it.

We went to bed I guess about 10pm, about 00:30 I woke up, I could here keys being pushed on a phone, not beeping just the sound they make when pressed, i waited a few mins and was sure it was keys, so i hit the light switched and looked over. The mrs was awake, which is unusual for her at that time, I asked her if she was on the phone she said no, I got up went round to her side of the bed, and the phone was chucked on the floor. I know for a fact when I went to bed I bought her up a drink and the phone was on the side table charging.

Anyway, she gave me the phone and when she had gone to sleep I went through it, I couldnt find anything, except his number under and alias, no texts, no mails, from him, browsing history revealing nothing, I must have looked for an hour or 2. Checked apps, social media, nothing.

So I figure I was dreaming or something.

On to this afternoon, she still claims they had seperate rooms at this hotel, I have been asking for a name to go with the room he had, none has come forward untill today. Apparently she called him up, told him if he wants his tablet he can have it providing he tells her what name his room was booked in. The tablet is gone, the room name given is Morrison. I called the hotel straight away, was told a Mrs Morisson stayed 1 night (they stayed 2 nights), and had some random post code/zip code, now where near our location.

I am considering asking her to move back out, the problem is I have no hard evidence, emails/phone are revealing nothing, so I am stumped as to whether or not its better to have her stay so I can try and find evidence or ask her to leave in which case I have little hope of finding anything out.

Oh, and to add to the saga, I found contraceptive pills in her coat, 10 tabs gone, which is around the time I spoke to him and either she ditched him or he ditched her, they could be an old packet, she was talking about taking them again, just find it odd she didnt mention she already had them.

Defo think I am being lied to still, but can't understand the motive anymore, she has a place to live, he has a place to live. Why move back in and continue like this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Because he hasn't promised her a future.

Put a VAR under the seat of her car.

You'll get what you need within 3-5 days.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

She can have a second phone 

And yes, a VAR will do the job and you'll have the evidence you need


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes do the VAR!

Most of the time, and we see it here, your gut is going to be right.
Now its just a matter of finding evidence.

Try not to tip her off you are checking on her.

If you find somthing do not just run to confront, if possible and you dont mind bring it here, and we can help with a plan.

Also do not reveal your sources! Do tell her about the VAR!

Take what Conrad has said to heart, you are a sure thing for her at the moment, dont let her see it bother you yet.

I think you are right not to ask her to leave yet, do the var and wait.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I may have/may not have made a huge mistake today.

We went to MC last night, she wasnt sure where it was so I offered to meet her at work and she could follow me, she declined which I thought was odd. 

Enroute, I decided to go past the OM flat, and there was her car.

I didnt say anything untill we where in front of the MC and then asked if she had came straight there, she said yes, so I said no you didnt and its these little lies that are now killing our marriage. She eventually admitted it saying she was putting a note through the door, he wasnt there I know he wasnt, its a locked building so she must have her own access to it, although she claims, someone from another flat let her in.

Anyway, the MC was female, and I felt like she was saying affairs are ok, that everyone has a right to privacy and that I shouldnt be told if she was seeing someone else.

I woke up early this morning, couldnt sleep. I checked her phone again only this time I went into saved messages as I googled about message storage on blackberry phones.

I found this.

Sent from her to him on 2nd Nov, she had stayed at our home in our bed for the 5 days prior to this, and 3 days and nights following it, and it was before I found out about them.

_Kitty cat - this is done x I adore u and u just take advantage of that  u know u do .. I was hoping u would realise xx u will never be ready I am just your play thing kept at arms length for when u feel a bit low. I deserve more and still have a lot to give , I love the time we spend together, u know I do but u don't need me baby xx. Go and find what u really want and be happy .. I don't hate u never could la la how dooo we had fun  <3 x. I could have made u really happy in my dizzy way u must see that ... We just connected with or without coke lol. were so comfortable around each other down to your reading glasses lol  and my wet dog look out of the shower lol. You told me lots of think on coke .. About needing time .. Scared of loosing me etc.... Oh and having a baby !!! Your nutter lol !! ... I just was never clear of where I stood do and cannot keep pouring my love into a closed door ... It hurt too much if u don't want me let me go and let me find someone who does .. Think u are wait for Nat to take u back baby if you are honest .. Does not matter how much I love and adore I am not Nat and never will be X _ 

To me its now clear, he wouldnt commit to her, he didnt love her, but she loved him. They were taking drugs together, talking about babies?

I showed it to her, packed her bags, and kicked her out.

She has called since crying.

I just don't know what to do, I have to let her go, I don't deserve any of this, but its really hard, really hard. I feel like I am back to square one, just sitting at home crying, have had to call in work.

Its her birthday today as well.


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## jmb123 (Nov 9, 2012)

Yes you deserve none of this **** and you did the right thing;;;;

And she had been lying all the while;;;you are better off without her;;;

And for now,however touch it is just know one thing,today you just started the bitter medication of your recently detected disease(your cheating spouse);;;it is good you kicked her out;;;;;You are no plan B;;;

She has to fight to get you back;;so stay strong ;;;;;you did the right thing in my opinion;;;

Go NC for a few days and work on healing yourself;;;


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> I may have/may not have made a huge mistake today.
> 
> We went to MC last night, she wasnt sure where it was so I offered to meet her at work and she could follow me, she declined which I thought was odd.
> 
> ...


Expose the affair.

To everyone.

You have the information.

Cool

Firm

Dispassionate

Use it.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

I know is easy to give others advice but you have to let her go mate . Just this shows me she doesn't have any intentions to stay with you. She may come back but leave as soon as she find another one.

Be strong and take care of the business !



> It hurt too much if u don't want me let me go and let me find someone who does


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Your right, I have to move on, my gut instinct kept telling me things weren't right, even when we where together, little things like I would hug and kiss her, she wouldnt initiat to me.

She never truly opened up or showed remorse.

I feel so stupid, lol, kept being fooled, to easy to believe the best, and hope for our marriage to work.

She has called again this afternoon, cried, told me she wants to come home, and knows what was in the text was unforgivable. But I still felt like something was missing, she still put her feelings above mine. 

Currently I feel like, my wife has died, and i have met a new women, who looks like her, sounds like her, and for brief periods of time is her, but then I realise, it isnt her, and I am holding onto a memory, and I dont want to taint the memory of the woman I fell in love with, with this new woman.

Anyway, I have said, that I need to think about things and that I won't be contacting her for a week or 2. Perhaps rather stupidly, I do want to see if she opens up totally, but I am not in anyway holding my breathe, and that feeling might change as I continue to digest what has happened.

I'm putting our house up for sale, had it valued a few weeks ago, and am going to start moving forward alone, I think its time to start facing the family, whilst they know what has happened I havent been visiting, it seems so strange to go somewhere without a partner, but I know I have to do it.


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## Dewayne76 (Sep 26, 2012)

Bub, I.. don't really know what to say. I'm very sorry. You know, it's VERY tough reading that b/s. One thing to keep in mind, in these fog's, people aren't the same. This isn't your ol lady talking to this man that way. You do realize that, right? She may not be the same, but the woman you loved isn't there anymore. 

Not saying she won't come back either. But, the one certain thing is this, it was the best thing for you to see that. It's a blessing in disguise, I promise. This will make you feel things you need to feel, eventually. 

Sit back, keep calm and try not to overthink things. Do what you gotta do for you and make you happy. 

I know what you mean about going places without a partner. I hate going to the movies, my mom's house, ANYWHERE and not having my wife. If my wife couldn't go, I usually didn't either. That's just the way it was with us. 

Now? heh, she says she feels trapped. Go figure. Yeah, she feels trapped because she's go this new kick on wanting to act like a single teen again. Of course she's going to feel trapped. But you know, just like you, I have to let her go. 

My new fav. saying is Rocky's new quote "It's not about how hard you can hit. It's how hard you can GET HIT, and keep moving forward"


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks guys, this forum is becoming like an extended family, i wish i could buy you all a few beers.

She keeps texting me now, i think i know what your all going to say, so i wont ask 

Feeling much better this evening, as I finally feel like I know what I need to do.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dunno that I could get over a message like that.

I will point out that she was breaking it off with him and going to someone else, presumably you. But as you say it reads like he would have been her first pick. Maybe that was letting him down gently, or maybe it is how she really feels.

The talk, the coke....yes it hurts. Normal for affairs, but hurts.

I'm a believer in reconciliation where possible, but you have to go with your gut on this one. You'd have to really want to reconcile to work through all that.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Well Stamford I'm truly sorry for this, but I'm glad you now, finally, know the truth.

No doubts anymore- he saw her comming out of the shower! Wow!

She has lied, and lied, and lied, and lied!
And hurt you deeply without remorse throughout it all.
She is acting like an entitled princess.

You are her best option at the moment, are you sure you cannot find it in your heart to make her the center of your world again and give her your all?-sarcasm!!


Quoting Conrad here,
"Expose the affair.

To everyone.

You have the information.
BE
Cool
BE
Firm
BE
Dispassionate

Use it. 
"

Her crying and sadness means nothing, you need to educate yourself on these threads a bit. Only true remorse with actions counts, she has shown none of this, and reconcilation is a long hard process, its unlikly she would put forth the effort.

Start thinking about a new life, she is not worh it!

Go dark, stay dark, move on! Keep in touch!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi All,

I got a reasonably good nights sleep, the first thing I thought when I woke up was I must leave her for good, if I'm honest its the first time I have thought about my marriage being completely over and haven't cryed.

I need to drill the 180 guide into my head, I still feel like checking up on her and find it hard to ignore her texts. But I know I must.

She called this morning, I told her I currently see no future for us and would like to hear that from her as well, she said she does see a future, and her heart sank when I said those words. More likely her safety rug is being pulled and she see's a big drop beneath her feet.

I sent her this email, which in hinsight I think was the wrong thing to do.

_I just read this, it doesn’t sound like it will be easy for you to do, so please re-read it and be certain this is what you want, and that I am worth the effort to you, if not we should go no further together.

When/if you are ready to tell me everything, the full story, from start to finish, I will be here to listen, on the phone or in person.

But it must now be no holds barred, no guilt on your part or skipping over bits you think will hurt me further, it makes it worse not better, I already think the worst, and am still here, so I can’t be hurt any more than I have been.

I am, and I want to listen to it all, but I must believe that you are telling me everything in order to move forward, and that you truly want us to work through this, because if you don’t and just haven’t the courage to let me go, I will do it for both our sakes, as neither of us will end up happy and you have meant too much to me for me to let that happen._

It was inrelation to this article that Decorum provided.

http://www.emotionalaffair.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Understanding-Your-Betrayed-Spouse.pdf

I suspect she will just use it to try and manipulate me, however I felt like after all that has happened, its worth one more shot to get the full truth, more for my own sanity than anything. Please don't think this means I am currently considering reconciling with her, I am no where near those thoughts at the minute, even though she plagues my mind constantly.

At the moment, I kind of feel emotionless, i'm not upset or angry, I dont feel guilty anymore, I guess I just feel like I am walking along in the dark, I can see where to put my foot for the next step, but I don't know what is beyond that.

Going to call around for some legal advice today, I dont think the bits of information I have found will help in anyway, in the UK the spouse has to admit to an affair for it to be grounds for divorce. I'm more worried at the minute about debt that she is more than likely accumulating as I know she fully furnished her house on credit, and has a new credit card.

The affair is already known to everyone, except maybe her work, not sure I am totally comfortable with telling them, if she losses her job, we are still married, and I don't want to foot the bill anymore.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

The texts and emails continue.

In some ways I feel armed now from the comments you guys have all shared for example in one email she says

_I have been thinking what I can do: 

Get rid of mobile
Give you my bank logins
Buy some bits from ann summers_

My response was, you are asking me to ask you to do these things, if you thought they would help you would just do them.

A few days ago I would have asked for her to do them, but not now, nothing will happen between us now without her taking actions, not empty promises.

It's strange that I dont even feel upset about that text anymore, it was just confirmation of what I thought had happened anyway, not even sure if it changes my feelings for her, the best thing about it I think is that it has made me finally realise that there is no point me chasing her, you cant make someone love you. I now think I actually see it as a really positive step, for me, Dewayne new it would be.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford,
Have you seperated your finances, canceled your mutual credit cards, closed mutual accounts if possible, (even if you have to split it, ask a lawyer).

Dont pay her way anymore, phone, car appartment, etc.

Please get the legal help, its very important.

The laws will detrermine what she gets, but you owe her nothing at this point morally.

Let her have her debt if possible.

And Stamford that article was in relation to a truly remorseful spouse and how they can help you heal, in the hands of an unremorseful spouse it is a guide on how they can manipulate you.

Quite trying to coach her, you will only entrap yourself.

Stay strong!


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

I hopefully will have an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow, waiting on a call back.

We have one joint account and the mortgage is joint, I am not paying anything for her, but I am paying all the household bills at the minute.

I need her signature to get her name taken off the joint account, the remainings of our savings i moved a few weeks ago to my own account.

All her debt will be in her name alone, and I have googled and think so long as it wasnt incurred for my benefit it will be hers alone, and I really dont see how I have benefitted at all .

Going to tidy up the house over the weekend and get the estate agent round on monday to take photo's.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Decorum said:


> And Stamford that article was in relation to a truly remorseful spouse and how they can help you heal, in the hands of an unremorseful spouse it is a guide on how they can manipulate you.
> 
> Quite trying to coach her, you will only entrap yourself.
> 
> Stay strong!


D'oh, sounds like day 1 and rule 1 already broken, lol, when will I learn

_1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore._

Solicitor is confirmed for 09:30 tomorrow.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Oh thats funny!
Hey there is a difference between being remorseful and being desperate.

There are some things that wil be present in a remorseful spouse, I have not seen any in your wife.
She had reconciliation within her reach and ignored the opportunity.

She wanted to do it on her terms (wrong), and she ignored the big things, and now she offers you her phone, LOL, really, really! The depth of her disloyality and disrespect is breathtaking.

Btw good job in applying what you are getting here, you are making progress.


I hope you continue to find your thoughts free of her, and your down times not so low!

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stamford

You have received great advice and conducted yourself honorably.

Your wife is a mess.

See the solicitor to protect yourself.

And if your wife truly loves you, she will admit infidelity and give you the quickest Divorce possible.

She owes you that. Ask her for it.

I look forward to hearing you get your life back on track quickly.

Because you are a great guy and your wife is a mental midget.

Let the OMW know what is going on so she can take precautions.

Lies, cheating, drugs= unprotected sex.

You and the OMW probably need to get tested.

Be safe. Go dark.

HM64


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks, feeling pretty low this afternoon, can't seem to pick myself up now. Think the reality of the situation is starting to kick in, I don't know.

Advise is all good, and I try to listen, but emotions are so difficult to shake. I just have a constant urge to contact her, why am i not angry?

It's kind of difficult to explain, but the person i most want to comfort and support me is her lol i dont get it, i should hate her.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

She is imprinted on your brain! Over the years actual physical brain connections have formed and chemicals are released in response to these connections.

The part of the brain where this happens is different that the thinking part of the brain.
Also these parts of the brain do not communicate on a two way street, its more one way.

The connections are formed by experience in real time, and new ones can only be formed in real time.
I.e. you cannot tell this part of the brain how to feel.
Even though you know what is best.

You are experiencing real physical pain and discomfort as a result of her behavor and the very reasonable decisions you have been forced to make.

Sometimes its goning to hurt like hell.

At this point do not question what or why you feel the way you do, you cannot change it, you can only go through it in real time. This too shall pass!

This experience is what she has brought by her own decisions and actions.

It is not your fault, you are not to blame.

If a parent abandons a child that child will feel devastated, the child is not to blame.
The more significant the relationship the more the pain because of the bonding.

Going forward there is NO right or wrong way to feel, dont judge yourself based on how you feel, you are in recovery, just keep going forward.

Listen, eat when you can, sleep when you can, and exercise is a must this will clear out some of those chemicals.

If you feel like you were really evil in another life and deserve to suffer, then keep contacting her, because that will drag this on for a good long time.

The more time spent away from her the faster your recovery will be, faster
being a relative word here.

It sucks so enjoy the good moments.

Take care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

stamford said:


> Thanks, feeling pretty low this afternoon, can't seem to pick myself up now. Think the reality of the situation is starting to kick in, I don't know.
> 
> Advise is all good, and I try to listen, but emotions are so difficult to shake. I just have a constant urge to contact her, why am i not angry?
> 
> It's kind of difficult to explain, but the person i most want to comfort and support me is her lol i dont get it, i should hate her.


stamford,

When you initiate individual counseling, you'll know you are healing when you no longer wish to contact her for no reason/comfort and when you become angry with her for what she's done.

Right now, you're stuck in codependence.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Btw people who try to stay with a remorseful cheating spouse in reconciliation, experience an elevated level of suffering in certain ways that is worse, but they hope the outcome (if they make it) is worth it, it takes 2-5 years to find out.

If the spouse is selfish and half hearted, and perhaps unfaithful, then its like being treated to an extended stay in the castle torture dungeon.

I think trying to stay with the spouse is much harder.


Just aittle side note to cheer you up. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Decorum said:


> Btw people who try to stay with a remorseful cheating spouse in reconciliation, experience an elevated level of suffering in certain ways that is worse, but they hope the outcome (if they make it) is worth it, it takes 2-5 yesrs to find out.
> 
> If the spouse is selfish and half hearted, and perhaps unfaithful, then its like being treated to an extended stay in the castle torture dungeon.
> 
> ...


In those situations, it's actually normal for the Betrayed spouse to become hateful for awhile as they vent their rage at the cheater.

Something about seeing that person suddenly caring triggers a torrent of bile.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes good reminder, ic is a must, no more mc of course
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Ok, Interesting, thx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Decorum said:


> Ok, Interesting, thx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The name of the phenomenon is "Pandora's Box"

You'll see it in the reconciliation stories here.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll search for it.
I have seen the behavior but never understood the trigger.
Like so much with this its not intuitive, at least to me.
thx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I am so sorry your marriage is over. You didn't deserve this, but you need to be strong and move on. No more contact. Don't respond to anything she sends. 

When you get to thinking that maybe it could work, read this part of her email to the OM

"It hurt too much if u don't want me let me go and let me find someone who does"

She doesn't say "let me go back to my husband". She wants the OM to let her go so she can find 'someone else'. The OM was her plan A, and you were/are plan B. She only wants back with you until she can find a new 'Plan A'.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Stamford,

Time for an update mate!

How are your doing?

What has been going on?


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi, sorry didnt see the last reply, I think I owe everyone an update after all the support I have recieved.

The short version is, things got worse, then better, but are now getting worse again lol.

She kept calling and texting after my last posts, we started talking again, she then through her phone away beginning of Dec and hasn't had one since.

I put the house up for sale, and it sold within a week, just waiting for it to finalise now.

I decided that with no mortgage, I would run away for a bit, and booked a leave of absence from work for 5 months, I go off on Monday, should be an adventure.

Anyway, I told her I was leaving, she kept crying, wanting to move back in. I went to a few social events, and she thought my family where trying to set me up with other people. She's barely left my side since.

She moved back in just before xmas, things have been going really well, she's really opened up, her story now is as follows:

She was deeply upset when we couldn't have children right away, she felt like she was getting old, her career was flatlining and she was scared about the future, this was early 2011.

That made her start spending money, the expensive car (july 11), clothes etc, its also why she took the job on working away from home (nov 11).

This is when we started arguing about money, time together etc. She started to feel unloved. This is when he started to play a part. They where friends, and he was going through marriage problems as well, he told her she was the only person he had to talk about them and started calling and texting her regularly for support, she felt sorry for him and they started to develop more of a bond. This was June/July 12.

So he goes away for Aug, shortly after she had quit her job to come home, she didnt feel like I was supporting her, she fell pregnant, but we lost the baby 30th Aug. He returns early Sept, and she has decided we must be broken, we failed, so she starts spending more time with him, doing drugs etc as by this time he has his own flat.

She goes away with him end of Sept, and moves out beginning of Oct, thats when the first posts start.

When she reflects back, she seems deeply ashamed, and feels like he was taking advantage of her, and that she was using him as a distraction. She says now that she felt like she was in love with him, but thinks it was more that she was escaping the problems and also the drugs clouded her mind.

I see real remorse now, she wants me to know where she is all the time, she engages with me more, apologies a lot and thanks me for being there for her.

We have been getting on well, but she has never admitted to having a physical relationship with him, and that is where the issue now is. I don't see how I can move forward without talking about that, and I don't think I will ever believe that it didn't happen.

So, I have no real idea of what to do or how things will pan out.

Oh, and I've grown a beard lol.


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## stamford (Oct 12, 2012)

oh, and just for info.

I think if I went back to when I first found out, I don't think I would have pursued her, I would definately have done things differently. I was in a really bad place, don't get me wrong, if we work things through, I think I will be happy. But at the time I was desperate to get her back, now I feel more like, marriage is both our choices, where as before I felt like she had full control.

Probably makes no sense at all, but thought I'd put it out there lol.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> now I feel more like, marriage is both our choices, where as before I felt like she had full control.


I think this is the most important part of your post.

And you know what? You have to decide if a PA happened or not. You have to decide if it is a deal breaker or not.

And some point in time you have to decide if you want to R or D.

You have made an awful lot of changes in a short time. 

Go find yourself. Who knows, your wife might just join you.

And you might want her too!

Keep moving forward.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

So good to hear from you Stamford!
I wonder how you have been doing almost every time I logg in.
Thanks for the update.

What will you be doing for 5 months will she be with you?

You can schedule a polygraph and tell her that for you to move on you need to know the truth whatever it is.

Here is how that works, after you come up with the questions (ask us for help, dont tell her what they are), then you try to get a parking lot confession, you say on the way there "This is your last change to be fully honest with me, did your affair go physical with him? and have there been any others?

See what happenes. 

But Stamford you already know, it's what woman do when the "feel" in love, and dont "feel" married.

Not trying to be a downer here, it does sound like she is making some progress, that is good news.

The drug use is disturbing, she sounds like she is easily manipulated, also would she be open to individual counseling to try to deal with wht she has done?

I feel like I am dumping on you here, sorry, it was probably nice to be away from here for a while too.

You have come a long way, you have had to face things that would shake any man.
No more mister nice guy, good for you!!!!!

I will post somthing later tonight that is for wayward wives that Chapperal posts from time to time, it may be on your thread already, I will check, but have her look at it sometime, I know you dont want to overwhelm her, but you are the gate keeper here, I'm just offering some ideas.


Hey if you want to see what decorum looks like I posted a recent pic of myself and my youngest daughter (18 yrs old now) on her 4-h horse, posted it on my profile page.

You sound in good spirits I am so glad, please keep us posted when you can.
Take care!


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Here is the document for a wayward spouse to read, you can print it out and give it to her, you should read it to .



Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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