# Wife Caught Sexting 2 years ago



## BigTexDad

This is going to be a long story with lots of details. But I am so lost here I don't know where to begin. I am trying to keep my emotions out of my decision making here but could certainly use some MATURE ADULT advice. 

My wife and I married in 1997. I always felt very confident in our relationship and never had any reason to doubt her loyalty. She occasionally received phone calls from an old ex-boyfriend but she would always tell him she could not talk and it was not right to call her (he got the number from her sister who does not like me). And just to be certain, I would verify that no contact was being made outside of those phone calls by checking phone bills. Sure enough, no other calls. She never spoke highly of this person and I never felt threatened by him. However, there was this lifelong family friend that she admitted to me that she once "had a teenage crush" on. I never thought twice about it. Figured it was a teenage thing. Until July 2009 when I found her asleep in the living room recliner with her laptop in her lap. I picked it up, helped her to bed and went back to power down her computer. When I logged back on, I noticed an open Facebook chat with this lifelong friend. In it, she said that she "had butterflies in her stomach" seeing him on July 4th at her parents house and how she had to "go fulfill her wife duties" with me but "would be thinking of him" the entire time. She even went so far as to refer to having sex with me as "gross". Needless to say, my heart broke. It destroyed my confidence in myself and our marriage. During this time, she had undergone some major surgery (complete hysterectomy) and was thus thrown into early menopause, was very hormonal, and was in a lot of pain and taking a lot of painkillers so she was certainly not herself. Eventually, she got off all that, came back to being herself, and seemed to be romantically interested in me again. Of course, the chat session opened a huge can of worms and I went back and did my due diligence and scrutinized all phone bills, emails, etc. We have always allowed the other access to each other's phone/mail because we never had anything to hide. When I dug into prior year's phone bills, I found a phone number that was repeatedly texted and called at all hours of the night. I punched the number in her phone and it brought up her best friend's name. So I did not think much about it. But one day, her best friend called me to ask me a question about her birthday present and I noticed it was not the same number. After doing a reverse phone lookup, I found the number she was texting and calling (and receiving as well) all hours of the night was the TWIN BROTHER of an old boyfriend (but had that number listed under her best friend's name---a common tactic among cheaters). Rather than confront her immediately, I installed some stealth spyware on her laptop to capture keystrokes and screenshots. Through that I was able to find that she had a "My Space" profile using her maiden name and stating that she was "single". I eventually brought a year's worth of phone bills, the chat with her lifelong friend, and My Space page to confront her. Of course, she turned it all around on me and said that I "left her alone" on many nights (I was busy building her dream home out on acreage but that is another story). She called me one night to ask if I would mind if her and her best friend go bowling. I said no problem and they went. Then this became a 2-3 times a week event. Long story short, I found out that they met some guys half their age one night and all went out drinking together (not something I would expect of a 38 year old married mother of 2). All in all, she claimed she was never unfaithful and said none of it would have happened if I had been at home with her at night. I had already read that when most people are caught cheating they do their best to shift the blame on the one that remained faithful.

I eventually forgave her and moved forward but never re-established trust in her. So my guard was up and always on.

Fast forward to end of Summer/Early Fall 2012:

She asked me if I would update her phone with the latest OS and I agreed to. She knew I was not very tech savvy so I guess she figured that if she just allowed me open access to the phone I would assume that she did not have anything to hide. Little did she know I was going to scrutinize every ounce of that phone. Now this particular OS update should have taken about 15 minutes but I had the phone for over 2 hours. And she knew something was up. I could tell by her constant nail biting that there was something on that phone I was not supposed to see. I knew she had been playing a game on her phone called "Dice with Buddies". I opened the app to find games ONLY with men. All games with women had been forfeited or declined. There is a chat feature within "Dice" and I noticed some "flirty" and "teasing" chats with men. Some were pretty forward and strong on the men's part but my wife's part was more of a "teasing" or "leading them along" (but nothing explicit on her part). My heart sank again and I confronted her. She again blamed me and offered to leave. I told her that I did not want her to leave but I could not figure out what I was doing wrong to make her want to lead other men on. NOW HANG ON…..IT GETS WORSE! 2-3 days later, after she fell asleep, I went through her phone and found an app called "Kik". Kik is a multimedia chat/messenger that allows people to chat without phone numbers showing up on a phone bill. And in these chats there were men asking to see "MORE" photos of her. I hacked her Kik account, changed her password to one only I knew, downloaded Kik on my phone and pretended to be her in order to find out how far this went. It turns out my wife was sexting nude and explicit photos of herself and receiving as well for about 4 weeks. It also turns out that she had made plans to fly to another state to meet with a guy (who was married with 2 kids). Before I confronted her, I did a little detective work and cross referenced this person's phone number with a reverse phone lookup, Facebook and Linked In. Through that I was able to learn this person's spouse's name, kids' names and ages, and even the church this guy attended (yes, he was one of their deacons). I sent him a text that basically told him to call me and if he gave me all the details of what went on, I would not tell his wife. He agreed, called, apologized, and told me everything. I asked to see the photos she sent and he said he had destroyed them (which I am sure he did not).

I confronted her with all the chats and Kik messenger files. She again offered to leave but blamed me for all her actions. I told her she could run away from her problems but that won't make them go away. Again, I was heartbroken, lost and did not know what to do. I started sleeping on the couch, drinking a lot, etc. I became very depressed (we won't talk about that though). I have never recovered fully from that depression and I have never trusted her since. She is mad that I don't trust her and throws it up to me a lot. But now we find ourselves at another juncture in the road. As I mentioned earlier, her sister hates me. Her sister is fake as hell and likes to pretend she is one of the "real housewives of Beverly Hills" on her husband's $80,000 a year income (I make 3 times that amount). I have always kind of felt that I "out kicked the punt coverage" when it comes to my wife. She is beautiful and unlike most women, she only gets more beautiful and sexy with age. And I tell her that a lot (I am wondering if that is part of the problem here). It is almost like it has gone to her head that she looks good. And men still fall all over her at the age of 43. There are always guys on FB that say stuff like, "I am here for you if it does not work out with 'him' (me)". Most of my friends (guys and girls) agree that I did "out kick the coverage" and that does not hurt my feelings. 

Now that brings us to November 2014. My son and I went on a hunting trip after thanksgiving and she decided she would take my daughter and go to her sisters house to stay while we were gone. Now that was my first red flag. I already knew that when she gets around her sister that I would be verbally attacked and abused when I got home from hunting because all her sister does when I am not around is tell her how she could have done better, I am a control freak with money, I am a horrible father, blah blah blah. And it never fails….when my wife gets around her sister, we ultimately end up in a big argument. Her sister has a serious substance abuse problem and severe anorexia and is obsessed with material possessions and how everyone looks (fat, skinny, etc). She literally acts like a 15 year old. 

The second morning we were hunting, my son and I both begin receiving incoherent texts from my wife. None of it makes sense. It was like she was drunk. I called my brother in law to check on her and make sure she was ok. He texted me back and stated that she did not sleep well. So we went on about our day and thought nothing about it. So when we get back, I notice that she has redownloaded "Dice with Buddies" and "Kik" again on her phone. I dig through some of the "Dice" chats (again with only men) and realize that she is back to teasing and leading these guys on again. I screenshotted all of these chats and am building my case. I even created a fake "Dice" account with a photo of someone I think she would find attractive and I have been chatting with her (as another man). I have asked if she would like to meet up and initially she said yes but she did not know when. Ultimately I pushed to meet with her (as another man) and she said back that she did not think it would be a good idea and that she would not want her husband doing that to her. 

I don't know if she figured out it was me (she may have looked in my phone while I was asleep). If so, she may just be playing along. If she did not realize it was me, maybe she really is being loyal. 

I am the breadwinner and she stays at home. I make really good money and it has allowed us to travel, see the world, etc. She never wants to have sex (ever) and has to get tipsy in order to go through with it with me. I quit trying in that area but as most men on here can attest---we have needs! And I will not be unfaithful to her. But I also don't want to be with someone that does not want me and seems to be longing for something I don't give her. I love this woman so much, I would rather see her happy with someone else than be miserable with me if that is the case. But when I say that she gets mad and pissed off and thinks I am just trying to start drama. She asks "why would you say something like that?" I have not let her know I know about the recent chats because I plan to bring that forward in case of a divorce proceeding. I think I am ready to ask her for a divorce but honestly I think the only reason she does not want one is because of our lifestyle, money, financial security. I love her so much I am willing to just give her half of everything so she can be happy. 

What are my next steps? Do I really want a divorce? Counseling? Trust issues with repeated "teasing" chats with random men online? I know she is likely having the chats to get men to tell her how beautiful she is but why is me telling her not enough?

Just could use some real advice here.

Sorry for the long-winded story. Just wanted to disclose all details.


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## GusPolinski

First off, it would seem to be pretty improbable (to me, at least) that she's "only" sexted w/ other men up to this point.

Second, you're going to _ask_ her for a divorce? Dude. F*ck that noise. Just file for divorce.


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## workindad

GusPolinski said:


> First off, it would seem to be pretty improbable (to me, at least) that she's "only" sexted w/ other men up to this point.
> 
> Second, you're going to _ask_ her for a divorce? Dude. F*ck that noise. Just file for divorce.


Agreed- don't ask her for a D- like you need her permission or it is her decision.

File yourself.


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## BigTexDad

GusPolinski said:


> First off, it would seem to be pretty improbable (to me, at least) that she's "only" sexted w/ other men up to this point.
> 
> Second, you're going to _ask_ her for a divorce? Dude. F*ck that noise. Just file for divorce.


Well I assumed that as well. I figured if she had sexted then she had likely done more. But knowing her hormonal state, she has gone through some "confidence" issues and when I confronted her about the chats that occurred two years ago she said she was merely leading these guys on as a "game". After looking at it, that is certainly how it appeared (as only a "game"). She was wanting to feel "chased" or pursued. I have zero evidence that she physically cheated. In fact, the more I tried to prove that she did, the more I became convinced that she hasn't. That is what is confusing. But to me, she had an emotional affair with the "game" and the sexting.


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## farsidejunky

And that is the rationalization you are going to hang your hat on?

Are you okay with that from your wife?

Your lack of action says so.


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## D.H Mosquito

Kick her into the long grass the kind of money you're on you will soon find a woman who wants and appreciates the lifestyle and financial security and love you can offer


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## Catherine602

Sadly, I think you know that she is no longer attracted to you don't you? It's a hard reality but do you see any evidence that she is? I don't think that it is fixed state of things. What were you like when you first met? I'll bet you were confident, driven, had plans for your lives and pursued them. She had to win your love and commitment.

How far are you away from the person you were? Perhaps becoming more independent, self directed, have long range plans for your life and go after them. Ask her to join you in partnership as a lover and companion. If she wants to stand on the sidelines and court deception then you have a choice, a relationship full of pain longing and loneliness or a warm, loving relationship. It would be nice to have it with your wife but if she is not down with the plan then you may have to find someone who is. The first thing she must do is to seek your forgiveness, work at R and atone for her betrayals. 

Give it a real hard effort, leave no stone unturned in getting things back on tract. Remember, you work on yourself and see if she is willing to fight for you. But have goals, One of which is to be loved, really loved.


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## IIJokerII

I got this one boys!!!

Read the suggested books Married Mans Sex Life Primer & No More Mr. Nice Guy.

File for Divorce and expose prior to doing so, segregate you finances and go no contact with her. She'll either do what it takes to earn back your trust and respect, 2 things you damn wll better not have for her at this time, or she will leave you thus making the her true intentions known and either way you'll have your answer.

Please read my main thread's first and last postings to find out what happens when you wait. When a women gets her hooks into this world on the heat of the consequence will burn the fantasy away, whether you or these sexting partners are the reality is an open question. No more posts from you, do it now. If this thread makes it to page 5 it'll be too late.


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## Catherine602

Mr Useless said:


> Kick her into the long grass the kind of money you're on you will soon find a woman who wants and appreciates the lifestyle and financial security and love you can offer


Be careful in overvaluing money and success in getting the quality relationship you need. I've noticed that high earners (men and women) have no problem attracting partners. They have a harder time finding authentic relationships and love. 

It's not impossible though. Just don't lead with your ability to provide a certain lifestyle. Some people are more attracted to the resources than to the person who has them. If looking good is more important than authenticity then buy the best partner your money will allow. But if you don't want a repeat of the kind of relationship you have now, learn what real love and personal chemistry looks like, if that's what you want.


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## weightlifter

How many times do you have to take a baseball bat to the nads to get the message?

Oh and read the top link in my signature to find out how bad it really is.


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## BigTexDad

Catherine602 said:


> Be careful in overvaluing money and success in getting the quality relationship you need. I've noticed that high earners (men and women) have no problem attracting partners. They have a harder time finding authentic relationships and love.
> 
> It's not impossible though. Just don't lead with gaining relationships based solely on the lifestyle you are capable of providing. Some people are more attracted to the resources than to the person who has them. If looking good is more important to you then buy the best partner your money will allow. But if you don't want a repeat of the kind of relationship you have now, learn what real love and personal chemistry looks like, if that's what you want.



This is dead on. When we met and fell in love she was earning far more than me. She is older and I had just graduated college. So she did see something in me other than money. Have I physically changed in 18 years of marriage? Who hasn't? I am about 20 lbs heavier and now shave my head bald because I was losing so much hair. I am more stressed in my life because with more $$$ comes a ton more responsibility. That stress has resulted in more wrinkles, less sleep, bags under eyes, etc. Trust me, if I knew she and I could go back to what we were 18 years ago in our relationship, I would give up all the $$$ immediately. And I don't want to attract someone else simply based on $$$. I want someone to want me for who I am. I think the only reason she hangs on is because of the financial security.

I am a firm believer that if you marry someone based on physical appearance or if that is so important for you, then you are guaranteed to be unhappy and headed for divorce. Physical beauty is fleeting. It does not last. When someone truly falls in love with the other, they always see them as beautiful. I guess that is why I think she is more beautiful at 43 than she was when we met. But it is not as easy as just dumping her. There are kids involved here, new house, lots of assets, stocks, etc.. There is as much to lose as there is to gain. Hell, I am tempted to just tell her to go have her fun and I will do the same and just avoid divorce all the same. We own multiple homes so I can have mine and she can have hers without all the attorneys getting rich.


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## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> First off, it would seem to be pretty improbable (to me, at least) that she's "only" sexted w/ other men up to this point.
> 
> Second, you're going to _ask_ her for a divorce? Dude. F*ck that noise. Just file for divorce.


Couldn't agree more! Dump her. She is a skank and treats you like a chump!

She missed her calling to be hanging out on street corners with a $20 price tag on her butt.

Stop making excuses for her. Mrs. Conan had some health issues and went through menopause early with all kinds of hormone issues and is very faithful just like she has always been.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigTexDad

weightlifter said:


> How many times do you have to take a baseball bat to the nads to get the message?
> 
> Oh and read the top link in my signature to find out how bad it really is.


Already ahead of you here. Did not do the VARs but installed excellent keystroke logging and screenshot software on her computer (spectorsoft pro). And it has provided all her alias email accounts, fb accounts and passwords. And I am actively monitoring all of these without her knowledge. But you are dead on about confronting. I am building all my evidence and won't let her know what I know until the time is right. She has shown in the past that she will play dirty and her single female friends have already told her how to clean out accounts, file false reports with police, etc. etc. We got into an argument a few years ago and her friends had her doing some real crazy crap. Cops got involved because one of her friends called them to do a "welfare check". I was out of town so it was kind of embarrassing for her. She certainly has some psycho friends that have been through multiple husbands in adulterous relationships before so they have been giving her all the tips and low-down on how to cover their tracks. But a good friend of mine is a PI and he is actively helping. I really would like to know where I went wrong in our marriage and try to fix it. But I don't think I can ever trust her again so I am building my case.


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## the guy

Aren't you afraid she will bury you in debt if you leave and don't divorce?


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## ConanHub

P.S. All her friends and her sister act like street walkers too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Rebuilding your finances might be a lot easier then rebuilding this relationship....I say get a divorce...hell your not even getting laid and you still stick around!!!!

Not only are you fighting against your old ladies mental issues you also are fighting against toxic friends. Until she takes actions to get counseling and remove these toxic friends your marriage is toast.

Every time you try to improve this marriage your old lady does something to deteriorate it.....how can you get ahead?


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## Mr.Fisty

You placed her too high on a pedestal, and that was the beginning of the end. What happens when you spoil a child? Same thing when you spoil an adult. She no longer sees you as an equal, and you need to rectify this perception for your children. You are their role model. You let her bully you and you did not take a stand. What does that show? She does not see the value in you because you have placed her above you. You did not reinforce your boundaries and you kept forgiving her and you showd you were in capable of performing any actions. Sure you told her what you felt, but did you back up anything you said with any action. And you kept letting her disrespect you in the process, because you did not value your self enough, and you over valued her. To me, she sounds like she has an ugly personality. But you kept seeing the illusion you wanted to see, more than the reality of the person she is.


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## ThePheonix

Your comment, "She never wants to have sex (ever) and has to get tipsy in order to go through with it with me. I quit trying in that area but as most men on here can attest---we have needs! And I will not be unfaithful to her. But I also don't want to be with someone that does not want me and seems to be longing for something I don't give her" is more of a concern than the texting.
Seems to me like she's lost romantic interest which can result in two things, cutting off affection and pursuing interest in other men.
My advice is to tell her, based on the evidence, that you realize she no longer has that loving feeling for you and your going to release her to find herself. After the first of the year, she needs to find a career that will support her new freedom from her hum drum life with you. Tell her to never to forget that you love her so much you're willing to give up keeping her in a situation she chooses not to be in. And maybe, after she's had a chance to establish herself as an independent single woman, she can call you if she chooses to let you know how its going, and if you have time, you'll talk with her.
Oh ya, tell her your biggest concern will be not thinking about her as you form relationships with other women.


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## Catherine602

Tex 
You may have something there with an open honest relationship, if you think she would follow the guidelines . If she agrees, sign an agreement. But if you go that route things may deteriorate quickly and D may happen anyway. 

You at at a critical juncture. The welfare of children are the most important thing, IMO. The financial entanglements may be less important in the years to come. You can mitigate the losses by careful planning now. Set up a trust for the kids and fund it regularly with your wife agreement. Less likely that your assets will be siphoned away by lawyers and an ex. Carefully consider not amassing more houses and toys and selling off some of them. Keep his and her houses. Your finances were based on a future with your wife. Now there is a high possibility that she may not be in your future. 

She knows you are in a difficult position as far as loss is concerned so how do you enact consequences so that she does not make a chump out of you. You have to think that out. She cannot keep up the cheating that is clear. Begin slowly decreasing the amount she is able to spend on luxuries. One thing is to decrease your reactivity to her, give as much as you get, get independent. Less work more time alone with your kids and on relaxing satisfying activities that involve meeting new people. It's critical that you bond tightly with your children. Take them on child centered trips and activity alone. Perhaps less time and trips that center on your wife until she earns the attention.


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## BigTexDad

Mr.Fisty said:


> You placed her too high on a pedestal, and that was the beginning of the end. What happens when you spoil a child? Same thing when you spoil an adult. She no longer sees you as an equal, and you need to rectify this perception for your children. You are their role model. You let her bully you and you did not take a stand. What does that show? She does not see the value in you because you have placed her above you. You did not reinforce your boundaries and you kept forgiving her and you showd you were in capable of performing any actions. Sure you told her what you felt, but did you back up anything you said with any action. And you kept letting her disrespect you in the process, because you did not value your self enough, and you over valued her. To me, she sounds like she has an ugly personality. But you kept seeing the illusion you wanted to see, more than the reality of the person she is.


Dead on. Yes. I spoiled her. And if she were in on this conversation she would say that is the reason she does what she does….that I don't "court" her anymore like I did when we were dating. She expects a fairy tale marriage and nothing less. I told her that she won't likely find that with anyone no matter what. She is spoiled. No doubt.

You make good points. She and her family (mine lives from away) do a good job at making me out to be the bad guy. So much so that apparently I started believing it myself. 

She does nothing. Her dream was to be a stay at home mom. But I am now doing all the laundry, cooking, shopping, taking and picking up kids from school, etc. 

I care so much about my kids and want to teach them what "unconditional love" really is. That I can love her with her with faults. But now I am wondering if I am teaching them it is ok to let someone walk all over you.


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## BigTexDad

ThePheonix said:


> Your comment, "She never wants to have sex (ever) and has to get tipsy in order to go through with it with me. I quit trying in that area but as most men on here can attest---we have needs! And I will not be unfaithful to her. But I also don't want to be with someone that does not want me and seems to be longing for something I don't give her" is more of a concern than the texting.
> Seems to me like she's lost romantic interest which can result in two things, cutting off affection and pursuing interest in other men.
> My advice is to tell her, based on the evidence, that you realize she no longer has that loving feeling for you and your going to release her to find herself. After the first of the year, she needs to find a career that will support her new freedom from her hum drum life with you. Tell her to never to forget that you love her so much you're willing to give up keeping her in a situation she chooses not to be in. And maybe, after she's had a chance to establish herself as an independent single woman, she can call you if she chooses to let you know how its going, and if you have time, you'll talk with her.
> Oh ya, tell her your biggest concern will be not thinking about her as you form relationships with other women.


This is exactly what I had planned. We have always had a tradition of writing a letter to each other at the start of every year that we give to each other on NYE. I wrote mine about 3 weeks ago and I basically told her in that letter that my goal for 2015 was her happiness. And that happiness might mean her being on her own without me. I am not angry over this situation. I truly want her to be happy. But neither of us are now and I think if I can cut her loose to pursue her happiness then in the long run I can and will be happy as well. I honestly was wanting to stick it out until the kids got to college (2-3 years) but I don't think that is going to be possible. I just feel selfish feeling like putting my happiness before my kids. And that is what makes me want to stick it out.


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## Roselyn

BigTexDad said:


> I confronted her with all the chats and Kik messenger files. She again offered to leave but blamed me for all her actions. I told her she could run away from her problems but that won't make them go away. Again, I was heartbroken, lost and did not know what to do. I started sleeping on the couch, drinking a lot, etc. I became very depressed (we won't talk about that though). I have never recovered fully from that depression and I have never trusted her since. She is mad that I don't trust her and throws it up to me a lot. But now we find ourselves at another juncture in the road. As I mentioned earlier, her sister hates me. Her sister is fake as hell and likes to pretend she is one of the "real housewives of Beverly Hills" on her husband's $80,000 a year income (I make 3 times that amount). I have always kind of felt that I "out kicked the punt coverage" when it comes to my wife. She is beautiful and unlike most women, she only gets more beautiful and sexy with age. And I tell her that a lot (I am wondering if that is part of the problem here). It is almost like it has gone to her head that she looks good. And men still fall all over her at the age of 43. There are always guys on FB that say stuff like, "I am here for you if it does not work out with 'him' (me)". Most of my friends (guys and girls) agree that I did "out kick the coverage" and that does not hurt my feelings.


You married a serial cheater and a Narcissist. You reinforced this Narcissism with your validation about her beauty even though she is a cheater. You place her in a pedestal. You also place a great deal of importance in your ability to make much more money than your brother-in-law. You are condescending towards your brother-in-law and that is the reason your sister-in-law dislikes you.

By the way, I take offense to your statement: "unlike most women, she gets more beautiful and sexy with age". You must think that most women are ugly when they reached your wife's age of 43 or beyond. You are shallow that is why you tolerate your wife's behavior and abuse to you. She gets a free pass for her looks.

You need to see a clinical psychologist to give value to individuals who don't make as much as you nor have the blessings of good looks. If you were a humble individual I would advise for you to see a divorce lawyer as your situation will not get any better.


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## Catherine602

BigTexDad said:


> Already ahead of you here. Did not do the VARs but installed excellent keystroke logging and screenshot software on her computer (spectorsoft pro). And it has provided all her alias email accounts, fb accounts and passwords. And I am actively monitoring all of these without her knowledge. But you are dead on about confronting. I am building all my evidence and won't let her know what I know until the time is right. She has shown in the past that she will play dirty and her single female friends have already told her how to clean out accounts, file false reports with police, etc. etc. We got into an argument a few years ago and her friends had her doing some real crazy crap. Cops got involved because one of her friends called them to do a "welfare check". I was out of town so it was kind of embarrassing for her. She certainly has some psycho friends that have been through multiple husbands in adulterous relationships before so they have been giving her all the tips and low-down on how to cover their tracks. But a good friend of mine is a PI and he is actively helping. I really would like to know where I went wrong in our marriage and try to fix it. But I don't think I can ever trust her again so I am building my case.


You may need some help figuring that out. How about ding some reading about relationship problems and see what might have gone wrong. Pinpoint when things started going sideways. How much time had you spent together. How much quality time with the children. 

She may have wanted you to succeed but at the same time spend more time with her and children. A paradox. Did she get accustomed to doing things on her own except when you went away on vacation? 

There might have been many things. You were operating under the impression that she understood why you worked so hard, while she may have resented your absences and distraction and did not share that with you.


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## Mr.Fisty

People can change and transform by the circumstances around them. Her surgery, and her need for attention to keep her feel validated as a woman, plus her toxic friends reinforcing her bad behavior, help also shape her into the person she is now. What she needed was someone who kept her grounded. But she had no one in her life to provide that, and her life became too easy. Everything became to easy for her. How do people grow? By learning and overcoming challenges. She was probably bored, and instead of doing things to improve herself, she devolved as an individual.

If you want her to be somewhat of a better person, you need to do everything you can to bring her back to reality. I am not saying to save your marriage, but talk to a lawyer, ask how can you gain majority custody, gather evidence, keep all text and voice mail from her. Only contact her through those means as it can help provide a record. Keep bonding with your children. Show her the reality when everything that matters is stripped away from her. Do not talk to her unless it is about the kids. Withdraw your presence from her life. Take away most of your support. Go out and live your own life. Be with friends and family, start new hobbies, do something that will help boost your own self-esteem. Work out and eat healthy. You do have worth, and there is bound to be someone who will appreciate it and not gamble it away. Show her she is not worth the effort of winning back, and she is no prize. Instead, work on yourself to make yourself a better prize.


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## BigTexDad

First to Roselyn. My brother in law is a great guy. And he inherited a ton of money. And no, I don't look down at anyone that makes less than me. Hell my best friend is a foreman on a highway construction crew. So you are attempting to make something out of nothing. Further Roselyn, I know plenty of women that look better in their 40's than when they were younger. I guess we as men have it in our heads that our wives will grow old and weinkled someday. And as a Christian, the Bible does tell us that beauty is fleeting and does not last (which implies to me that it slowly goes away---my wife has only grown more beautiful to me. That means I notice OTHER women less than my wife---sorry that that offends you but that is the way a husband should feel towards his wife if he loves her).

Catherine, yes. More $$$ equated to more hours away. But I still had a better work schedule than most given that I am the owner of the company and more flexible on schedule (disclaimer to Roselyn, that is not meant to be condescending in any shape or form to thise working more or less hours than me). It has been a balancing act. Her sister tells her that I don't let her spend enough money but this is coming from someone who does not work and makes a 1/3 of what I do (that is not meant to be condescending to the BIL. I just fond it hilarious that her sister knows how to spend OUR money better than we do). We have a disabled child and that has been taxing on every aspect of our marriage. But we are over the hump on that and our disabled child is doing awesome. I don't like drama. I tend to let things people donor say roll off my back. My wife was more like me until her sister started coming around. Now it is literally like an episode of one of those "real houswives of..." shows. If someone does not eat much at Thanksgiving, it is blown out of proportion that someone was "being rude about someone's cooking" or "I can't belive so and so had the nerve to do this or that". I roll my eyes and stay out of it. My wife does still to some degree but her sister gets pissed if she does not react all dramatically. The sister is "competing" with me for her attention. And the sister is even pushing her to have these "chats" and shows her ways to cover her tracks. I can't compete with her sister. They are flesh and blood. The sister has had enough experience with extramarital affairs that she is an expert at telling people how to get away with it without getting caught.


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## 3putt

Does anyone see a direct correlation between this thread and FFH's thread in the Private Section?

OP, if you allow a woman to walk all over you, then more than likely, she eventually will.

I keep going back to the times she has 'offered' to move out, yet you keep saying no. You know why she keeps 'offering' to do so? Because she knows damned good and well you won't let her, let alone kick her out.

You're her Pavlov's dog, and she knows it! She's got you conditioned.


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## Wazza

What would you advise if it was someone else in your position? Writing an answer to that might help you organise your priorities.

I think your head knows the answer but your heart is not ready.


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## Catherine602

Does the sister's husband know that she is in favor of cheating? Does he know what she is up to with your wife? 

In the spirit of disclosure, you might consider the positive and negative consequences of letting him know. Think carefully though. Is it only talk on her part? Maybe tell her if she gets out of your marriage, you will not intrude on hers. Her move.


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## BigTexDad

3putt said:


> Does anyone see a direct correlation between this thread and FFH's thread in the Private Section?
> 
> OP, if you allow a woman to walk all over you, then more than likely, she eventually will.
> 
> I keep going back to the times she has 'offered' to move out, yet you keep saying no. You know why she keeps 'offering' to do so? Because she knows damned good and well you won't let her, let alone kick her out.
> 
> You're her Pavlov's dog, and she knows it! She's got you conditioned.


If she did not use the kids as a bargaining chip then that would be easy and I would have let her go. But she uses the kids as a way to punish me. We did separate for a while but she left the kids at two different friends' houses while she "found herself" and would not tell me where they were at. They were young enough to believe anything that she told them and she had them convinced I was going to "call the police on her" (for whatever reason). She essentially told them that I could not know where they were. So I am trying to get all my ducks in a row so we don't have to drag the kids through something nasty. I am at peace with the decision and even think the kids will handle it fine. But I just don't know how she would react and if the kids would become weapons again. So it is just not that easy when you are trying to keep the kids out of the conflict.


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## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> If she did not use the kids as a bargaining chip then that would be easy and I would have let her go. But she uses the kids as a way to punish me. We did separate for a while but she left the kids at two different friends' houses while she "found herself" and would not tell me where they were at. They were young enough to believe anything that she told them and she had them convinced I was going to "call the police on her" (for whatever reason). She essentially told them that I could not know where they were. So I am trying to get all my ducks in a row so we don't have to drag the kids through something nasty. I am at peace with the decision and even think the kids will handle it fine. But I just don't know how she would react and if the kids would become weapons again. So it is just not that easy when you are trying to keep the kids out of the conflict.


You need to start talking to a lawyer first thing Monday morning.


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## BigTexDad

Catherine602 said:


> Does the sister's husband know that she is in favor of cheating? Does he know what she is up to with your wife?
> 
> In the spirit of disclosure, you might consider the positive and negative consequences of letting him know. Think carefully though. Is it only talk on her part? Maybe tell her if she gets out of your marriage, you will not intrude on hers. Her move.


The sister is a completely different story. We had to have a drug/alcohol intervention on Christmas Day 4 years ago with her (not by choice). Her husband is kind of spineless. He will tell you that he "does not like confrontation". For the same reason he refuses to establish any form of discipline with their kids. And yes, he knows his wife has cheated. But since he does not like confrontation, he essentially gave her a "hall pass" and bought her plane tickets to go see the guy so she could figure out who/what she wanted. The brother in law is now the good guy and apparently the example I should follow if I truly loved her (according to the sister in law). This is coming from someone that has had a bad substance abuse/doctor shopping/Munchausen syndrome problem for over 15 years.


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## 3putt

Ever considered telling the kids the truth about what's going on? Hey, this affects them as well as you, and if at least one of them is old enough to go hunting with you, then he should be old enough to understand how wrong and devastating his mother's actions are.


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## MattMatt

BigTexDad said:


> This is dead on. When we met and fell in love she was earning far more than me. She is older and I had just graduated college. So she did see something in me other than money. Have I physically changed in 18 years of marriage? Who hasn't? I am about 20 lbs heavier and now shave my head bald because I was losing so much hair. I am more stressed in my life because with more $$$ comes a ton more responsibility. That stress has resulted in more wrinkles, less sleep, bags under eyes, etc. Trust me, if I knew she and I could go back to what we were 18 years ago in our relationship, I would give up all the $$$ immediately. And I don't want to attract someone else simply based on $$$. I want someone to want me for who I am. I think the only reason she hangs on is because of the financial security.
> 
> I am a firm believer that if you marry someone based on physical appearance or if that is so important for you, then you are guaranteed to be unhappy and headed for divorce. Physical beauty is fleeting. It does not last. When someone truly falls in love with the other, they always see them as beautiful. I guess that is why I think she is more beautiful at 43 than she was when we met. But it is not as easy as just dumping her. There are kids involved here, new house, lots of assets, stocks, etc.. There is as much to lose as there is to gain. Hell, I am tempted to just tell her to go have her fun and I will do the same and just avoid divorce all the same. We own multiple homes so I can have mine and she can have hers without all the attorneys getting rich.


You are correct. You do have a weight problem. But it is not the weight problem you think it is.

Your weight problem is the deadweight of your wife. 

Your wife is full of excuses for her bad behaviour.

She needs to grow up.

Brother-in-Law needs to monitor her sister, too, in my opinion. Ah. You just answered that point. So I was right to presume they are both cheats.

You might need to get DNA testing for your child/children. Not to prove paternity but to ensure that their medical histories are accurate re hereditary health concerns.


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## brendanoco

BigTexDad said:


> This is exactly what I had planned. We have always had a tradition of writing a letter to each other at the start of every year that we give to each other on NYE. I wrote mine about 3 weeks ago and *I basically told her in that letter that my goal for 2015 was her happiness.* And that happiness might mean her being on her own without me. I am not angry over this situation. I truly want her to be happy. But neither of us are now and I think if I can cut her loose to pursue her happiness then in the long run I can and will be happy as well. I honestly was wanting to stick it out until the kids got to college (2-3 years) but I don't think that is going to be possible. I just feel selfish feeling like putting my happiness before my kids. And that is what makes me want to stick it out.


:scratchhead: jesus christ, she treats you like sh*t and your goal for 2015 is her happiness?


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## BigTexDad

3putt said:


> Ever considered telling the kids the truth about what's going on? Hey, this affects them as well as you, and if at least one of them is old enough to go hunting with you, then he should be old enough to understand how wrong and devastating his mother's actions are.


Hey 3 Putt. Yes. And he knows more than I want him to. I had to tell him because my sister in law "interrogated" him about me one weekend. She was trying to put words in his mouth---something about "him being scared of me". I had to tell him that in effect his Aunt was doing anything she could to get my wife away from me and that she was attempting to go through him to do it. That is when I told him. He also has a cell phone and I wanted him to know the rules of using a cell phone. And he is old enough that he would support us. It is his little sister that worries me. As I mention she has a disability and her progress there is pretty dependent on $$$. I am so concerned my wife would take me to the bank that it could have a negative impact on her progress. To me that is more important. If I have to suffer for 4 more years to help my daughter then I will do it.


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## 3putt

brendanoco said:


> :scratchhead: jesus christ, she treats you like sh*t and your goal for 2015 is her happiness?


Yup!


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## BigTexDad

brendanoco said:


> :scratchhead: jesus christ, she treats you like sh*t and your goal for 2015 is her happiness?


Well, there is an ulterior motive in wanting her to be happy. You did read the rest correct? It is my way of essentially saying I want a divorce. And either she will pursue her happiness with someone else or I will do all I can to make it happen so that there is no way that she can tell the kids that I am the bad guy. If my goal is her happiness and she is still miserable and up to her same antics in a year, then I can say I did everything.


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## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> Hey 3 Putt. Yes. And he knows more than I want him to. I had to tell him because my sister in law "interrogated" him about me one weekend. She was trying to put words in his mouth---something about "him being scared of me". I had to tell him that in effect his Aunt was doing anything she could to get my wife away from me and that she was attempting to go through him to do it. That is when I told him. He also has a cell phone and I wanted him to know the rules of using a cell phone. And he is old enough that he would support us. It is his little sister that worries me. As I mention she has a disability and her progress there is pretty dependent on $$$. I am so concerned my wife would take me to the bank that it could have a negative impact on her progress. To me that is more important. If I have to suffer for 4 more years to help my daughter then I will do it.


You need to do a full nuclear exposure to get the entire truth out. This will not end well if you don't start standing up for yourself and your kids. And I would also include that SIL in the exposure as well. She is nothing more than toxic and enabling. A cancer.

We can help you do this the right way, if you so choose.


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## ButtPunch

Wake up TeX! She showed you who she is. You need yo believe her. 

She is not going to change. Find your backbone and do what you have to. How can you possibly be happy living like this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> Well, there is an ulterior motive in wanting her to be happy. You did read the rest correct? It is my way of essentially saying I want a divorce. And either she will pursue her happiness with someone else or I will do all I can to make it happen so that there is no way that she can tell the kids that I am the bad guy. If my goal is her happiness and she is still miserable and up to her same antics in a year, then I can say I did everything.


What about her pleasing you? Do you really think that is one of her 2015 goals?

Kinda doubt it.


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## BigTexDad

ButtPunch said:


> Wake up TeX! She showed you who she is. You need yo believe her.
> 
> She is not going to change. Find your backbone and do what you have to. How can you possibly be happy living like this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not.


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## BigTexDad

3putt said:


> What about her pleasing you? Do you really think that is one of her 2015 goals?
> 
> Kinda doubt it.


It isn't. But she has beat me down so much I never even thought about that. I asked her the other day to name 3 GOOD qualities about me that she liked. After a long silent pause I asked her to just name 1. She couldn't.


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## BigTexDad

ButtPunch said:


> Wake up TeX! She showed you who she is. You need yo believe her.
> 
> She is not going to change. Find your backbone and do what you have to. How can you possibly be happy living like this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lots of variables here that concern me. Divorcing her and being without her does not bother me. What bothers me is we have a lot of assets. And she is not real sharp when it comes to spending money wisely. I am afraid she would go get an attorney that just rapes us both. I am trying to come up with divorce terms that she will agree to that would just let us all end this on amicable terms.  I want to keep the kids as protected as I can and ensure both of us have financial solvency at the end of it. Hell I just built her a 1/2 million $ home! What happens there? How do I get all the assets protected?


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## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> It isn't. But she has beat me down so much I never even thought about that. I asked her the other day to name 3 GOOD qualities about me that she liked. After a long silent pause I asked her to just name 1. She couldn't.


I'm not surprised. She couldn't say the money, as it would paint her for what she really is, so I guess she felt it better to just shut up.

What do you really want here?

And why? Leave the kids out of this for one minute.


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## 3putt

3putt said:


> I'm not surprised. She couldn't say the money, as it would paint her for what she really is, so I guess she felt it better to just shut up.
> 
> What do you really want here?
> 
> And why? Leave the kids out of this for one minute.


Okay, I see you answered above to BP.


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## BigTexDad

3putt said:


> I'm not surprised. She couldn't say the money, as it would paint her for what she really is, so I guess she felt it better to just shut up.
> 
> What do you really want here?
> 
> And why? Leave the kids out of this for one minute.


What I really want here is happiness for me and her. But I am not going to have it staying married to her if she is not happy. And if I leave her it is still important for her to be happy because that will directly influence the kids (and you can't take them out of the equation here because to me they are the single most important variable). I want happiness too. And I think I will be happy leaving her. But there is that one part of me that is still in love with her and want to believe she can change. I agree, it is not likely. But I guess it is just that hard to let go.


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## ButtPunch

You gave her a chance to change already. She didn't. Divorce will cost you but it is what it is. No getting around it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> What I really want here is happiness for me and her. But I am not going to have it staying married to her if she is not happy. And if I leave her it is still important for her to be happy because that will directly influence the kids (and you can't take them out of the equation here because to me they are the single most important variable). I want happiness too. And I think I will be happy leaving her. But there is that one part of me that is still in love with her and want to believe she can change. I agree, it is not likely. But I guess it is just that hard to let go.


I am at least one of the most recovery minded people on this forum, and I think others here would attest to that. 

I wouldn't even think about trying to recover anything with this woman.

I know it's hard to let go, but this woman is just using and abusing you, with no regards for you or your feelings, and she will continue to do so until you put an end to it. She couldn't even come up with one good quality about you on the spot?? C'mon!

I feel really bad for you and your kids, but it's time to cut your losses, IMO.

This woman ain't worth it.....and she never will be.


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## Q tip

EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is a lie. Just plain wrong. No matter what, read Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011, by Athol Kay. 

20 pounds overweight? First chapters have that covered too. You'll drop that in 2-3 months.

Dump this total waste of time skank. She's up to no good and deserves being tossed to the curb.

Don't ask or tell her about the D. Just have her served. Keep the leverage and strategy on your side, With her, this is chess not checkers. Read this forum and start planning your exit. Do the 180. Stay to it. Detach and plan your future.


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## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Lots of variables here that concern me. Divorcing her and being without her does not bother me. What bothers me is we have a lot of assets. And she is not real sharp when it comes to spending money wisely. I am afraid she would go get an attorney that just rapes us both. I am trying to come up with divorce terms that she will agree to that would just let us all end this on amicable terms. I want to keep the kids as protected as I can and ensure both of us have financial solvency at the end of it. Hell I just built her a 1/2 million $ home! What happens there? How do I get all the assets protected?


Well, the first step is to start talking to a lawyer. Hell, talk to a few of them. Make use of the free consultation offered by a number of them in your area so that they cannot represent your wife.


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## Q tip

GusPolinski said:


> Well, the first step is to start talking to a lawyer. Hell, talk to a few of them. Make use of the free consultation offered by a number of them in your area so that they cannot represent your wife.


:iagree::iagree:
Chess, not checkers. Talk to the best. She's screwed than.


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## MattMatt

3putt said:


> I am at least one of the most recovery minded people on this forum, and I think others here would attest to that.
> 
> I wouldn't even think about trying to recover anything with this woman.
> 
> I know it's hard to let go, but this woman is just using and abusing you, with no regards for you or your feelings, and she will continue to do so until you put an end to it. She couldn't even come up with one good quality about you on the spot?? C'mon!
> 
> I feel really bad for you and your kids, but it's time to cut your losses, IMO.
> 
> This woman ain't worth it.....and she never will be.


And as for me, the perfectly reasonable chap, who always suggests couple's counselling and reconciliation? In this case I don't think it would work. Sorry. But I can't see her being "saveable" as a person.


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## BigTexDad

I do have to laugh at some of the women replying to this defending her. You can tell others that have cheated when they say crap like "well you left her at home bored and shouldn't have done that". Amazes me that these people can justify adultery because I am choosing to build a better life for my family.


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## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> I do have to laugh at some of the women replying to this defending her. You can tell others that have cheated when they say crap like "well you left her at home bored and shouldn't have done that". Amazes me that these people can justify adultery because I am choosing to build a better life for my family.


Unfortunately, you get that a lot from a select few.

At least you already have them figured out. Way ahead of the game.


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## Catherine602

I don't think you should act without careful planning. Financial planing, legal planning in relationship to the children and lifestyle changes. It's far better to get your ducks in order in anticipation of changes. Take time. If you think that it would be better to take 2 - 3 yrs to get a workable plan in place then take it. It may take that long for a contentious complex D anyway. If you plan well, you may be able to cut the time down. 

She may sense that she about to lose it all and start taking you seriously. Planning and simplifying may save your marriage. Make changes to be a better man for yourself and your children not your wife. Although she will benefit if she straitens up. Really get your relationship with your children firm. Make sure you know every aspect of their daily life. Teaches, grades, Drs. appointment etc. It may be material to how much time is legally allowed to you in custody.


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## GusPolinski

Roselyn said:


> You married a serial cheater and a Narcissist. You reinforced this Narcissism with your validation about her beauty even though she is a cheater. You place her in a pedestal. You also place a great deal of importance in your ability to make much more money than your brother-in-law. You are condescending towards your brother-in-law and that is the reason your sister-in-law dislikes you.
> 
> *By the way, I take offense to your statement: "unlike most women, she gets more beautiful and sexy with age".* You must think that most women are ugly when they reached your wife's age of 43 or beyond. You are shallow that is why you tolerate your wife's behavior and abuse to you. She gets a free pass for her looks.
> 
> You need to see a clinical psychologist to give value to individuals who don't make as much as you nor have the blessings of good looks. If you were a humble individual I would advise for you to see a divorce lawyer as your situation will not get any better.


I have a 100% perfectly sound explanation for this, Ros.

Two words -- "wife goggles".


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## Catherine602

BigTexDad said:


> Lots of variables here that concern me. Divorcing her and being without her does not bother me. What bothers me is we have a lot of assets. And she is not real sharp when it comes to spending money wisely. I am afraid she would go get an attorney that just rapes us both. I am trying to come up with divorce terms that she will agree to that would just let us all end this on amicable terms. I want to keep the kids as protected as I can and ensure both of us have financial solvency at the end of it. Hell I just built her a 1/2 million $ home! What happens there? How do I get all the assets protected?


Your daughter needs to be assured of support for the rest of her life. Set up a durable trust for both your children. Wait a few years to sell the house and put the money in the trust. Get your wife to buy in by telling her you daughter may never be able to support herself adequacy and her parents need to protect her. 

Speak to a lawyer and accountant and financial planner about how best to arrange your finances to minimize battles. If you do it now, it will not seem like you are trying to beat your wife out of anything when and if you D 4 years from now.


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## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> This is dead on. When we met and fell in love she was earning far more than me. She is older and I had just graduated college. So she did see something in me other than money. Have I physically changed in 18 years of marriage? Who hasn't? I am about 20 lbs heavier and now shave my head bald because I was losing so much hair. I am more stressed in my life because with more $$$ comes a ton more responsibility. That stress has resulted in more wrinkles, less sleep, bags under eyes, etc. Trust me, if I knew she and I could go back to what we were 18 years ago in our relationship, I would give up all the $$$ immediately. And I don't want to attract someone else simply based on $$$. I want someone to want me for who I am. I think the only reason she hangs on is because of the financial security.
> 
> I am a firm believer that if you marry someone based on physical appearance or if that is so important for you, then you are guaranteed to be unhappy and headed for divorce. Physical beauty is fleeting. It does not last. When someone truly falls in love with the other, they always see them as beautiful. I guess that is why I think she is more beautiful at 43 than she was when we met. But it is not as easy as just dumping her. There are kids involved here, new house, lots of assets, stocks, etc.. There is as much to lose as there is to gain. Hell, I am tempted to just tell her to go have her fun and I will do the same and just avoid divorce all the same. We own multiple homes so I can have mine and she can have hers without all the attorneys getting rich.



whoa whoa whoa Those last 3 lines ??? WTF ????? How come there is always one new poster seemingly a month now giving the green light to their wife to cheat on them. Either you are going to get a divorce or shut this marriage down to all other guys period. Prolonging the marriage while your wife fvcks around is suicudal for your mentality and your marriage.

I know you are the productive one and may fear losing $$ in a divorce. Yes she looks good at 43 while if she was in your shoes, she might look run down herself with the stress you face.

But let me ask you this. If you can man up to the stress you face, then why can't you man up to your marriage and your wife's straying ways ?

I was reading your initial post and saying good job investigating but each time saw weakness when you kept rugsweeping her actions.

I have no doubt in my mind your wife has cheated. She will do so again and her gaslighting you is making it worse.

Get a Divorce attorney, go to war with her and win your due. It will save your arse now and some other guy as well as hers later on


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## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> This is exactly what I had planned. We have always had a tradition of writing a letter to each other at the start of every year that we give to each other on NYE. I wrote mine about 3 weeks ago and I basically told her in that letter that my goal for 2015 was her happiness. And that happiness might mean her being on her own without me. I am not angry over this situation. I truly want her to be happy. But neither of us are now and I think if I can cut her loose to pursue her happiness then in the long run I can and will be happy as well. I honestly was wanting to stick it out until the kids got to college (2-3 years) but I don't think that is going to be possible. I just feel selfish feeling like putting my happiness before my kids. And that is what makes me want to stick it out.



you are worried about her happiness and she is worried about banging other guys.

There is a difference between chivalry and gullible. There is a difference between charitable and having major self-esteem problems.

Right now, and IA m regretful over your situation but I think you have self-esteem problems that needs to be fixed regardless of how your marriage turns out and I think much of this comes from your trying to be a nice guy and great husband at first before being abused by this woman excessively.


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> The sister is a completely different story. We had to have a drug/alcohol intervention on Christmas Day 4 years ago with her (not by choice). Her husband is kind of spineless. He will tell you that he "does not like confrontation". For the same reason he refuses to establish any form of discipline with their kids. And yes, he knows his wife has cheated. But since he does not like confrontation, he essentially gave her a "hall pass" and bought her plane tickets to go see the guy so she could figure out who/what she wanted. The brother in law is now the good guy and apparently the example I should follow if I truly loved her (according to the sister in law). This is coming from someone that has had a bad substance abuse/doctor shopping/Munchausen syndrome problem for over 15 years.


he bought her plane tix so she could go cheat on him with her OM ? Spineless is a compliment for this other guy. Maybe he is a nice guy but deserves wht he gets at this point


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## ThePheonix

BigTexDad said:


> I wrote mine about 3 weeks ago and I basically told her in that letter that my goal for 2015 was her happiness. And that happiness might mean her being on her own without me.


Don't get me wrong. Make sure she knows it only flows one way Dawg. Don't do like your candy azz, P whipped, BIL who is willing to take seconds and be second, and give her an option of coming back. Like I said, she can try to call you if she needs to talk and if you have time you may give her advise.
Any guy who would actually let his old lady go hopping other guys and let her come moseying back when she needs to recoup is destined to a meal of leftovers, when he is fed at all, if you know what I mean.
BTW, improvement in your happiness is probably directly proportional to how quickly you get that vampire out of your life.


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## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> I do have to laugh at some of the women replying to this defending her. You can tell others that have cheated when they say crap like "well you left her at home bored and shouldn't have done that". Amazes me that these people can justify adultery because I am choosing to build a better life for my family.



your sacrificing the time with her to build abetter life for you two is admirable and you don't deserve her gaslighting you and telling you that you neglected anything because if you didn't build those places for her and sat with her watching the Young and the Restless holding her hand every night, she would consider you weak and call you cheap and would probably be looking for some guy to spend $$$ on her. She is taking a positive in you and shafting you for it.

If another woman here supports her endeavors, then those people have lost their moral compass and probably have overgrown their usefulness here. I haven't seen anyone supporting her yet here though I know that a few of the women posters (many are very good but a very small handful) seem to let morals fly out the window when discussing a situation like yours. Again, a very small handful


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## the guy

Good luck trying to end this on good term with all the toxic influences she has. 
I say take the hit, rebuild your empire and find a chick that doesn't find you gross.


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## MattMatt

Roselyn said:


> You married a serial cheater and a Narcissist. You reinforced this Narcissism with your validation about her beauty even though she is a cheater. You place her in a pedestal. You also place a great deal of importance in your ability to make much more money than your brother-in-law. You are condescending towards your brother-in-law and that is the reason your sister-in-law dislikes you.
> 
> By the way, I take offense to your statement: "unlike most women, she gets more beautiful and sexy with age". You must think that most women are ugly when they reached your wife's age of 43 or beyond. You are shallow that is why you tolerate your wife's behavior and abuse to you. She gets a free pass for her looks.
> 
> You need to see a clinical psychologist to give value to individuals who don't make as much as you nor have the blessings of good looks. If you were a humble individual I would advise for you to see a divorce lawyer as your situation will not get any better.


Really? A clinical psychologist? :wtf:

Good grief!

He believes his wife is getting better looking as she ages and that she looks better than all other women* for the simple reason that he loves her.* And only her. Sadly she doesn't deserve this in a spouse.


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## the guy

At the end of the day this marriage has way to many enemies...a SIL, toxic friend, and a old lady that likes to brain phuck strange guys on the internet.

The way I see it, your getting milked one way or another...but maybe , just maybe having your old lady served might just get her to second guess her SIL and friends advice...and maybe she will think twice in what she is about to lose if she keeps phucking around in chat rooms.

This sh!T has been going on for a couple of years, somethings tell me your old lady doesn't really give a dam.

How the phuck can you deal with her crap year after year?


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## BigTexDad

Thanks guys! All great advice. I needed to hear all of this. She has beat me down emotionally to a point where even I have become spineless. Gaslighting is EXACTLY what she does!!! Never knew there was a term for it. I will admit that my self esteem is not strong enough right now to go through divorce. But that will be what I work on this new year. I am glad I stopped by here. I found the support I needed!


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## ThePheonix

Just remember BigT you ain't losing anything that hasn't already been gone for a while and staying around waiting for her to dole out some more azz kickings ain't likely to help your self esteem either. You just have to honestly ask yourself, "is there anything she's bring to the table that I cannot live with or that cannot be replaced? You know the answer.


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## the guy

BigTexDad said:


> She has beat me down emotionally to a point where even I have become spineless.!


Good looking chick have a way of doing that. Next time around I'm going to find an ugly one...they try harder.


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## Mr Right

G'day BigTex

Sorry for what you are going through, I've lived it (in a past life and I know it's not easy). You seem to be what we here in Australia call a "Top Bloke" (a great guy) and if you don't watch and stop being a great guy, you will lose a lot more than you wife.

What no one here has talked about is, you said you owned a company? Well I don't know what it's like in the States but he in Australia your wife would be entitled to half of that Company and I'd say the law over there would be somewhat like it is here.

You really need to find out who the best Lawyers are in town, pick the best 2 out of say 6 of the best in town and put the other 4 on retainer, so your wife can't use them (and hopefully gets a second rate lawyer). If you are going to divorce her you need to do this before she know that the divorce is coming.

If you are going to stay with your wife you should really start looking at starting to hiding you assets and money (just in case). This is not about scamming your wife but looking after yourself and your kids and you need to stop looking out for her welfare, she need to hit rock bottom first to wake the f&@k up to herself.

I know what it's like to raise a child with a disability (I have a son with Cri-Du-Chat Syndrome), you just want to best for them. See a Lawyer like yesterday and find out where you stand. Also don't think that your wife's behavior as something you have done wrong, this is 100% on her. Do what the others have suggested and start doing the 180 as well as reading NMMNG and MMSLP.

If you want to try and work it out you really need to have your wife served with divorce papers, to show her there are consequences to her behavior and to tell her your not playing around anymore and won't take her disrespect. She has kept this going because she is selfish and know you won't do anything to upend her perfect life. You need to show her that you are taking a stand and are looking out for your happiness first.

One last thing, I love hunting as well, how did you go on your hunting trip, what were you chasing (Turkey)? Mate I wish you all the best and just remember the TAM Army is behind you, whatever you choose to do.


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## BigTexDad

Thanks Mr. Right!

She would be entitled to half unless she opted to accept "other terms". That is why I suggested to offer her half of everything we currently own in assets (houses, cars, stock, etc.) with the understanding she owns none if the company. Otherwise I would go to court and fight her. I have evidence to support me getting full custody and I likely would. I would offer her shared custody and half of current assets. She actually is a good mother. She pulled the weight when it came to my daughter's disability. I guess that is the other thing that keeps me hanging on is she is a great mom. I try to be as honest about the situation as I can. One thing is for sure, I need a good attorney. I hate attorneys...the only profession that earn money off every aspect of life (burth, death, business, real estate, legal, etc.)

Went deer hunting. Did not do very well this year. Plan to bowhunt (archery) in Jan and Feb.


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## ThePheonix

the guy said:


> Good looking chick have a way of doing that. Next time around I'm going to find an ugly one...they try harder.


When you've been around as long as I, you discover they all have the same plumbing.  Its like the pulpwood cutter obtaining a marriage license to marry a neighbor. The next day he changed his mind and wanted to marry another neighbor. He went to the court clerk to get the marriage license change and the clerk told him it cost him $2.00. He told the clerk to just forget it because he screwed both of them and their wasn't $2.00 difference between them.


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## lordmayhem

BigTexDad said:


> Well, there is an ulterior motive in wanting her to be happy. You did read the rest correct? It is my way of essentially saying I want a divorce. And either she will pursue her happiness with someone else or I will do all I can to make it happen so that there is no way that she can tell the kids that I am the bad guy. If my goal is her happiness and she is still miserable and up to her same antics in a year, then I can say I did everything.


You just don't get. This is the typical fall on the sword, I gave it all response. Its always a failure, and we see it all the time here, the latest being love=pain's hail mary pass http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/236122-hail-mary-pass.html. 

Look, no matter what the BS does, the WS is going to demonize the BS, because that's how they justify the affair in their minds. Its their way of not accepting responsibility for the affair. 

You're wasting your time and effort because you're always going to be the bad guy no matter what you do. Whenever I see a BS use this rationale, it shows that the BS really cannot let go and detach. Because if you were able to detach, you wouldn't give a flying fvck what she thinks.


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## drifting on

BigTexDad

I shed a tear reading your story. I don't have much advice to offer only to find the best attorney possible. Retain the best then ask that attorney to list the next five best. Depending on there retainer fees I would retain the next five best. Then give her the divorce papers. At least you know her lawyer won't be all that great. Best wishes to you.


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## warlock07

> She again blamed me and offered to leave





> She again offered to leave


Take up the offer. Everytime you refused, she only lost more respect for you as a man and as a human being. Her sister behavior only confirms that this sh!tty behavior runs in the family and you are obviously seem to be blind to her as a person. Only when she turned against you did you start to realize that she is not a good person.


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## warlock07

BigTexDad said:


> Dead on. Yes. I spoiled her. And if she were in on this conversation she would say that is the reason she does what she does….that I don't "court" her anymore like I did when we were dating. She expects a fairy tale marriage and nothing less. I told her that she won't likely find that with anyone no matter what. She is spoiled. No doubt.
> 
> You make good points. She and her family (mine lives from away) do a good job at making me out to be the bad guy. So much so that apparently I started believing it myself.
> 
> She does nothing. Her dream was to be a stay at home mom. But I am now doing all the laundry, cooking, shopping, taking and picking up kids from school, etc.
> 
> I care so much about my kids and want to teach them what "unconditional love" really is. That I can love her with her with faults. But now I am wondering if I am teaching them it is ok to let someone walk all over you.



You are a chump if she does nothing but cheat on you while you do all the earning and the house work. 

Does she have any redeeming qualities as a person, if not as a wife ?




> I am not angry over this situation. I truly want her to be happy.


Man.... You must have "Take advantage of me " tattooed on your forehead. 

You should be angry at a minimum. Your wife is treating you less than dirt and you are not even angry ? What does that tell about you ?


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## warlock07

BigTexDad said:


> If she did not use the kids as a bargaining chip then that would be easy and I would have let her go. But she uses the kids as a way to punish me. We did separate for a while but she left the kids at two different friends' houses while she "found herself" and would not tell me where they were at. They were young enough to believe anything that she told them and she had them convinced I was going to "call the police on her" (for whatever reason). She essentially told them that I could not know where they were. So I am trying to get all my ducks in a row so we don't have to drag the kids through something nasty. I am at peace with the decision and even think the kids will handle it fine. But I just don't know how she would react and if the kids would become weapons again. So it is just not that easy when you are trying to keep the kids out of the conflict.



Do you realize how bad this is ? The more you talk about the worse it sounds. She dropped her kids and was going to bars!!!

This is as worse as it gets. Get some individual counseling and talk to a lawyer. For guy leading a company you sound totally out of your depth in this regards.


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## warlock07

BigTexDad said:


> The sister is a completely different story. We had to have a drug/alcohol intervention on Christmas Day 4 years ago with her (not by choice). Her husband is kind of spineless. He will tell you that he "does not like confrontation". For the same reason he refuses to establish any form of discipline with their kids. And yes, he knows his wife has cheated. But since he does not like confrontation, he essentially gave her a "hall pass" and bought her plane tickets to go see the guy so she could figure out who/what she wanted. The brother in law is now the good guy and apparently the example I should follow if I truly loved her (according to the sister in law). This is coming from someone that has had a bad substance abuse/doctor shopping/Munchausen syndrome problem for over 15 years.


You aren't much better than the BIL regarding the pushover part..


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## Chaparral

I have a different take on this. This is you fault. You built this woman you're maried to. Is she pretty much worthless now, of course she is. But you reap what you sow.

You said you do the cooking, you do the cleaning, you take care of the kids etc. etc. You built this woman as sure as bad parents build spoiled kids that grow up as useless individuals.that no one wants to be around.

Most people can be corrupted by your type of actions. Look at the spoiled brats in Hollywood.

Quit cooking and cleaning etc. If she refuses to take over, kick her out. Sure you can't legally make her leave but you can sure as hell cut up her credit cards and switch bank accounts. You won't do any of this because you don't really value your family enough to take responsibility for the mess you've made of it.

The worse part of this is you have no doubt ruined your children as well.
Read mmslp, linked to below because you have no idea how to be the father/man of a house. Also check out No More Mr Nice Guy.

Your wife is no saint but she's just out there trying to fill the giant vacumn you have left in your house. 

Btw, the reason she can't have sex with you is that women, as a rule, do not have sex with the butler, maid, or baby sitter.


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## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> You aren't much better than the BIL regarding the pushover part..


I think "pushover" should be replaced by enabler.


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## MattMatt

She is actually a truly dreadful mother. She is destroying their father and them at the same time. It is truly sad how calous and deeply uncaring she is. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## italianjob

BigTex,

1 - She received weird phone calls from men from the very beginning of your marriage, there have been episodes throughout all your marriage. She is quite obviously a serial cheater. Also, she used to go out "bowling" 3 (! - what married woman or man with children gets to go out for reasons different than work three nights a week?) times a week and go drinking and partying with Young guys, she had a myspace single profile and sent out nude pictures to other guys, she drops the kids and goes out to bars, she's a SAHM but nothing gets done at home, you are not getting sex in years, and you REALLY think she NEVER physically cheated? Come on, man, where do you live?

2 - You have a lot of properties and assets, a potentially very aggressive (in a divorce) wife, surrounded by even more agressive enablers (sister and friends) and you don't want to involve lawyers. I'm sorry, man, you'll need a lot of professional legal and financial advice to get through this and to know exactly what your risks are both filing and not filing.

3 - Aside from being beautiful what good qualities does she have? Don't tell me she's a good mom. Good moms don't go out every night, don't drop their kids around to go to bars, or use them to punish their dad or blackmail him.

Take professional legal and financial advice and put your ducks in a row, then file, you have nothing to save here IMO.


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## IIJokerII

We have reached page 6. The event horizon is nigh. Sorry BigTex dude.


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## Mr.Fisty

Chaparral said:


> I think "pushover" should be replaced by enabler.



I hate to say this, after taking classes in applied behavioral psychology, he pretty much trained her into the person she is. True, that most of our neurological pathways are formed when we are young, but it does not stop simply because we are an adult. We never stop learning. A person can be a mentally healthy person when first entering a relationship, but the doormat personality types lack the boundaries to keep a marriage intact. We are naturally curious creatures, so we will push and prod, and when something bad happens, we need consequences. That is why we learn fire is hot, do not touch. The consequences of that is pain. So when she pushed and prodded, his boundaries kept getting pushed back. Slowly she learned that she can push him around. I am not saying it is entirely his fault. She lacked the self-awareness and communication skills to demand what she wants in a mate. She is still responsible for her actions, it is just he had a hand in her turning out the way she did.


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## MattMatt

He is responsible for her bad behaviour in much the same way that a shopkeeper is responsible for when people decide to enter his shop and steal stuff from the shop. I.E. It is all on her.

But the wise shopkeeper installs security measures and ALWAYS, ALWAYS prosecutes thieves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

Chaparral said:


> I have a different take on this. This is you fault. You built this woman you're maried to. Is she pretty much worthless now, of course she is. But you reap what you sow.
> 
> You said you do the cooking, you do the cleaning, you take care of the kids etc. etc. You built this woman as sure as bad parents build spoiled kids that grow up as useless individuals.that no one wants to be around.
> 
> Most people can be corrupted by your type of actions. Look at the spoiled brats in Hollywood.
> 
> Quit cooking and cleaning etc. If she refuses to take over, kick her out. Sure you can't legally make her leave but you can sure as hell cut up her credit cards and switch bank accounts. You won't do any of this because you don't really value your family enough to take responsibility for the mess you've made of it.
> 
> The worse part of this is you have no doubt ruined your children as well.
> Read mmslp, linked to below because you have no idea how to be the father/man of a house. Also check out No More Mr Nice Guy.
> 
> Your wife is no saint but she's just out there trying to fill the giant vacumn you have left in your house.
> 
> Btw, the reason she can't have sex with you is that women, as a rule, do not have sex with the butler, maid, or baby sitter.


His being the 'nice guy' enabled it but this woman is pure evil and a POS IMO and being 'nice' doesn't entitle one to become a demon and destroy you. 

However, I do agree with you that being 'nice' and gullible can lead to one to take advantage of you, sometimes to extremes like she did, and now he is paying the price and can't seem to get over his own form of chivalry while he becomes the doormat.

I have a family member in the same situation as this guy and I am just as hard on him over it. He has distanced himself from me and his friends as he continues to take part in the destruction of his own life. I don't mind because it's on him and I really don't like fake people and don't like being around those who are like this. I'd rather pvke. 

In other words, OP, man up and snuff this out while you have any self-esteem or even 2 cents to rub together


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## wmn1

Mr.Fisty said:


> I hate to say this, after taking classes in applied behavioral psychology, he pretty much trained her into the person she is. True, that most of our neurological pathways are formed when we are young, but it does not stop simply because we are an adult. We never stop learning. A person can be a mentally healthy person when first entering a relationship, but the doormat personality types lack the boundaries to keep a marriage intact. We are naturally curious creatures, so we will push and prod, and when something bad happens, we need consequences. That is why we learn fire is hot, do not touch. The consequences of that is pain. So when she pushed and prodded, his boundaries kept getting pushed back. Slowly she learned that she can push him around. I am not saying it is entirely his fault. She lacked the self-awareness and communication skills to demand what she wants in a mate. She is still responsible for her actions, it is just he had a hand in her turning out the way she did.



I agree completely


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## wmn1

MattMatt said:


> He is responsible for her bad behaviour in much the same way that a shopkeeper is responsible for when people decide to enter his shop and steal stuff from the shop. I.E. It is all on her.
> 
> But the wise shopkeeper installs security measures and ALWAYS, ALWAYS prosecutes thieves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


very well put


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## warlock07

Mr.Fisty said:


> I hate to say this, after taking classes in applied behavioral psychology, he pretty much trained her into the person she is. True, that most of our neurological pathways are formed when we are young, but it does not stop simply because we are an adult. We never stop learning. A person can be a mentally healthy person when first entering a relationship, but the doormat personality types lack the boundaries to keep a marriage intact. We are naturally curious creatures, so we will push and prod, and when something bad happens, we need consequences. That is why we learn fire is hot, do not touch. The consequences of that is pain. So when she pushed and prodded, his boundaries kept getting pushed back. Slowly she learned that she can push him around. I am not saying it is entirely his fault. She lacked the self-awareness and communication skills to demand what she wants in a mate. She is still responsible for her actions, it is just he had a hand in her turning out the way she did.



Thematically, I agree with you. We teach people how to treat us. It is just that you have a p!ss poor way of putting it across. He trained her ? Really ?


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## bryanp

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## G.J.

GusPolinski said:


> Well, the first step is to start talking to a lawyer. Hell, talk to a few of them. Make use of the free consultation offered by a number of them in your area so that they cannot represent your wife.


Yes this first as part of what you called 'getting your ducks in a row'


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## Catherine602

Please don't make Tex feel bad or at fault. He has control whenever he wants to take it but I don't think he is at fault for the situation. He bestowed his trust in a woman who had the type of issues that made her feel entitled to her good fortune in marriage and not appreciative. If she were a different type of person then he would not be here. He remained loyal and invested in the relationship and tried his best to save his marriage. He is the best kind of man who had no way of predicting what his wife was like. No one marries a cheater on purpose. 

I am saying this because there are so many good men in Tex's situation. They feel beaten down, depressed and lack self esteem. They need to see that once they are armed with the right tools and info, they can direct their lives to be happy and confident again. There are many stories here on TAM where that has been the case. 

It will take time. He is just learning to look at his relationship using a different lens. He hasn't had a chance to see everything. The fact that he does not dump the b!tch right now is a smart move. He is gathering info. Even going to a lawyer now may be premature. 

He needs to have evidence of what she is doing and planning. He needs a script to follow when he talks to the lawyer so he gets everything covered with as little billable hrs as possible. He needs the support that talking about the slow process with people who are willing to listen and advise so he can keep a clear path and stay motivated.


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## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Thematically, I agree with you. We teach people how to treat us. It is just that you have a p!ss poor way of putting it across. He trained her ? Really ?


Just like Pavlov did his dog. 

The other theory is that they trained each other.

BTW, did you see that article about the more housework a man does the more likely he is to be cheated on? If anyone has a link to it I forgot to save it.


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## Q tip

BigTexDad said:


> Thanks guys! All great advice. I needed to hear all of this. She has beat me down emotionally to a point where even I have become spineless. Gaslighting is EXACTLY what she does!!! Never knew there was a term for it. I will admit that my self esteem is not strong enough right now to go through divorce. But that will be what I work on this new year. I am glad I stopped by here. I found the support I needed!


Read, reread and memorize Married Man Sex Life Primer. NOW!

Shes beta'd you into a spineless heap. You've got her up on a pedestal. Change yourself while you fix this - with D or R.


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## sidney2718

Chaparral said:


> Just like Pavlov did his dog.
> 
> The other theory is that they trained each other.
> 
> BTW, did you see that article about the more housework a man does the more likely he is to be cheated on? If anyone has a link to it I forgot to save it.


I saw that, but sadly don't remember where.


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## IIJokerII

Mr.Fisty said:


> I hate to say this, after taking classes in applied behavioral psychology, he pretty much trained her into the person she is. True, that most of our neurological pathways are formed when we are young, but it does not stop simply because we are an adult. We never stop learning. A person can be a mentally healthy person when first entering a relationship, but the doormat personality types lack the boundaries to keep a marriage intact. We are naturally curious creatures, so we will push and prod, and when something bad happens, we need consequences. That is why we learn fire is hot, do not touch. The consequences of that is pain. So when she pushed and prodded, his boundaries kept getting pushed back. Slowly she learned that she can push him around. I am not saying it is entirely his fault. She lacked the self-awareness and communication skills to demand what she wants in a mate. She is still responsible for her actions, it is just he had a hand in her turning out the way she did.


 I suppose this would apply to the same type of person who lets say went from accidentally taking five dollars from their roommate that was left on the table thinking it was their to graduating to rifling thru their roommates pants and room for money since the first response was "Don't worry about it" it should be applied since the insidious progression warranted a firm initial response?

I don't think so. Her intentions were clear from the get go and her ego and selfishness knew of no challenge so her true nature unfurled. A private alcoholic or substance abuser would do the same thing if little to no resistance towards their behavior was present. " That just uncle such -n- such getting sh1t faced again, like always, so anyway last night on idol...." Acceptance in the face of destructive behavior allows the responsible party to relax his or her "Private" issue's vs hiding them, as hiding them takes effort. 

Hell, this is why most waywards go on the offensive behind the betrayed party's back ,to install the reflective pity party and understanding when they eventually introduce the OM/W. The BS drove them away or turned them into a cheater. Some of the people here on this forum even attest by their postings that it wasn't until they met someone that they realized they were unhappy.

Being mean is not a learned behavior, it is a lack of character, especially at a older age. Most of you may not know what a pressurizer heater core is, but the sign saying; "Caution- High heat" makes most thoughtful people ask how hot it is vs touching it and saying " Ow, this is fvcking hot" and when it concerns infidelity it is often the wayward doing the touching while the BS gets the burn marks.


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## BigTexDad

I hear all of you and some are dead on and some are so far off the mark. The first 5 years of our marriage, we kept each other on a pedestal. She went the extra mile in everything and life was pure bliss. Then we had a child born with a disability. It took its toll on both of us. We both took on household chores as she was driving an hour and a half each way 3 times a week to take our daughter to therapy. On those days, i would have dinner prepared and try to lighten our load. And my daughter's therapy was continuous---my wife worked with her at home as well. So we both had to pick up the slack. 

I went into this marriage giving her 1000% trust. When anyone goes into a marriage, you should feel like that person has your back at every turn. And I did. And she was trustworthy for the first 9-10 years. Then something happened. I wrote it off as a hormonal, menopausal mid-life crisis. And I honored my "in sickness and in health" vow through it all. Then things were good again for 2 years. And by 2009, she began to view our marriage as stagnant. I should also say here that I was laid off twice between 2009 and 2011. With no income, she did stick by me. So she felt something for me other than the $$$. Out of those layoffs I decided I needed to be my own boss. And she did help out a lot during the building of that business. But on the side she was playing these flirty/teasing games with other men. And I don't know where you got I went years without sex. Not so. So it is not that I am just some gullible lost sheep here. But I have chosen to turn the other cheek in order to honor my vows to set an example for my kids. To me, when you have kids, you and your own self wants and needs come second to them. I am not necessarily enabling my wife---at least that is not my intent. I am merely trying to keep my kids as my focus here.


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## wmn1

Catherine602 said:


> Please don't make Tex feel bad or at fault. He has control whenever he wants to take it but I don't think he is at fault for the situation. He bestowed his trust in a woman who had the type of issues that made her feel entitled to her good fortune in marriage and not appreciative. If she were a different type of person then he would not be here. He remained loyal and invested in the relationship and tried his best to save his marriage. He is the best kind of man who had no way of predicting what his wife was like. No one marries a cheater on purpose.
> 
> I am saying this because there are so many good men in Tex's situation. They feel beaten down, depressed and lack self esteem. They need to see that once they are armed with the right tools and info, they can direct their lives to be happy and confident again. There are many stories here on TAM where that has been the case.
> 
> It will take time. He is just learning to look at his relationship using a different lens. He hasn't had a chance to see everything. The fact that he does not dump the b!tch right now is a smart move. He is gathering info. Even going to a lawyer now may be premature.
> 
> He needs to have evidence of what she is doing and planning. He needs a script to follow when he talks to the lawyer so he gets everything covered with as little billable hrs as possible. He needs the support that talking about the slow process with people who are willing to listen and advise so he can keep a clear path and stay motivated.


good post Catherine. 

I agree.

TX seems like a throwback to the days when my parents were around. Putting everything on his shoulders, being loyal, being a leader and showing the way while Mom was appreciative, fiercely loyal and did all she could to keep the family unit alive and well. Unfortunately, somehow, he got tangled with this woman who, instead of doing everything around the house, pining for him while he was away and taking care of him when he came home, resorted to a life of disloyalty and being a tramp.

He clearly deserves better.

I think that many people here put ourselves in his shoes when we opine. Right or wrong, coddling him may be a disservice. Attacking him too aggressively may also be a disservice. people like him attack us when we criticize her although when I say people like hi, he hasn't done this but others have. However, to most of us, we can't stand by and not opine when he wants to work it out with her or just go easy on her after what she did to him is demonic and while he's been killing himself to make her happy and put her on a pedestal.

To each their own, I guess. But I stand by what I said in this thread while also anointing him as the 'nicest guy of 2014' because I don't know anyone who would put up with such crap for so long.

He needs to get the ball rolling. I truly am on his side


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> I hear all of you and some are dead on and some are so far off the mark. The first 5 years of our marriage, we kept each other on a pedestal. She went the extra mile in everything and life was pure bliss. Then we had a child born with a disability. It took its toll on both of us. We both took on household chores as she was driving an hour and a half each way 3 times a week to take our daughter to therapy. On those days, i would have dinner prepared and try to lighten our load. And my daughter's therapy was continuous---my wife worked with her at home as well. So we both had to pick up the slack.
> 
> I went into this marriage giving her 1000% trust. When anyone goes into a marriage, you should feel like that person has your back at every turn. And I did. And she was trustworthy for the first 9-10 years. Then something happened. I wrote it off as a hormonal, menopausal mid-life crisis. And I honored my "in sickness and in health" vow through it all. Then things were good again for 2 years. And by 2009, she began to view our marriage as stagnant. I should also say here that I was laid off twice between 2009 and 2011. With no income, she did stick by me. So she felt something for me other than the $$$. Out of those layoffs I decided I needed to be my own boss. And she did help out a lot during the building of that business. But on the side she was playing these flirty/teasing games with other men. And I don't know where you got I went years without sex. Not so. So it is not that I am just some gullible lost sheep here. But I have chosen to turn the other cheek in order to honor my vows to set an example for my kids. To me, when you have kids, you and your own self wants and needs come second to them. I am not necessarily enabling my wife---at least that is not my intent. I am merely trying to keep my kids as my focus here.


 so at what point did she change or what happened to make her change ? Don't forget you stood by her too and gave her too many bites of the apple. 

Let me ask you one other question Are you ready to lawyer up yet and if not, why not ?

I applaud your sacrificing for your kids while preparing to do what's necessary for yourself and btw good detective work.

What are you going to do now ?


----------



## BigTexDad

Hey wmn1,

Yes. I am ready to lawyer up. Jyst trying to figure best way to do this to preserve assets and kids well-being. I don't think this is something that will move quickly. I am also in the process of building my case stronger with evidence. I have a PI attempting to bait her into having "chats" with him online for the mere purpose of collecting documentation.

What made her change? After she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and had to have a radical hysterectomy at the age of 37. It sent her hormones way out of whack and she completely changed. Like I said, I honored "in sickness and in health" at that time. Then in 2009 she had an online chat with a lifelong male family friend where she expressed feelings for him. I found it, was angry about it and confronted her about it and in doing so she "gaslit" me as her reason for looking outside the marriage. I knew that history was a pretty good indicator of future behavior and vowed I would not "react and confront" if/when it happened again but would rather build my case and gain documentation. In confronting her, she learned how to cover her tracks. But too much damage has occurred since then for me to ever be able to trust her. But rather than confront her now, I am just building my case. While my heart is still with this woman, it is broken. And the trust is gone. I don't see how I can live the rest of my life with someone I can't trust. Further, I think it sets a bad example for my kids. But given the level of assets at risk here, I have to build a case. In TX she is entitled to 3 years of spousal support. But I would prefer to just give her half now, have her sign away those 3 years and thus keep her from getting any of my company.


----------



## Divinely Favored

If it ever comes to her denying a Physical affair and you want her to prove it. If you live in the DFW metroplex and you need the services of a poligripher I can give you the name of an excellent one my office has used many times.


----------



## ThePheonix

BigT, Isn't Texas a community property state? I know Texas provides for spousal maintenance but Im unfamiliar with the three year rule.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

IIJokerII said:


> I suppose this would apply to the same type of person who lets say went from accidentally taking five dollars from their roommate that was left on the table thinking it was their to graduating to rifling thru their roommates pants and room for money since the first response was "Don't worry about it" it should be applied since the insidious progression warranted a firm initial response?
> 
> I don't think so. Her intentions were clear from the get go and her ego and selfishness knew of no challenge so her true nature unfurled. A private alcoholic or substance abuser would do the same thing if little to no resistance towards their behavior was present. " That just uncle such -n- such getting sh1t faced again, like always, so anyway last night on idol...." Acceptance in the face of destructive behavior allows the responsible party to relax his or her "Private" issue's vs hiding them, as hiding them takes effort.
> 
> Hell, this is why most waywards go on the offensive behind the betrayed party's back ,to install the reflective pity party and understanding when they eventually introduce the OM/W. The BS drove them away or turned them into a cheater. Some of the people here on this forum even attest by their postings that it wasn't until they met someone that they realized they were unhappy.
> 
> Being mean is not a learned behavior, it is a lack of character, especially at a older age. Most of you may not know what a pressurizer heater core is, but the sign saying; "Caution- High heat" makes most thoughtful people ask how hot it is vs touching it and saying " Ow, this is fvcking hot" and when it concerns infidelity it is often the wayward doing the touching while the BS gets the burn marks.



Hmm, I don't remember posting he is responsible for her cheating. I did mention her actions are her own. He did have a hand in his wife losing a lot of respect for him. That was the behavioral changes I was talking about. In my earlier post, I even stated that he spoiled her and when she disrespect him, he did not stand up to her. Her cheating was just a symptom of her acting out her lack of respect. I didn't even state that he was the cause of her cheating, and I did state that she lacked self-awareness, which is on her. I also stated she lack the communication skills too. Now his wife is causing him to change as well. She has a hand in causing his behavior to change. He is prioritizing his children and himself more. The actions he is taking is of his own choice. Just like a depressive and negative person will have a hand in their partner losing attraction for them. An action there spouse might take is a divorce. My father was an alcoholic, but with my mother's help and support, his behavior changed in where he did not need it as a crutch. She had a hand in changing his behavior, and he took the actions to stay sober. My mom was not responsible for my father staying sober. Perhaps, a better word would be influence or lack there of. Of course my mother had strong boundaries that she enforce to make my father behave a certain way if he wanted to stay with her. Again, the actions are my father's responsibilities. She had a hand in him changing as a person.


----------



## BigTexDad

Yes TX is a community property state however I have a buddy that was in a similar situation. He gave her more assets up front in exchange for terminating her rights to his business and future revenue. He has to pay 3 years spousal support or until she gets a job (whichever comes first)


----------



## Mr.Fisty

wmn1 said:


> good post Catherine.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> TX seems like a throwback to the days when my parents were around. Putting everything on his shoulders, being loyal, being a leader and showing the way while Mom was appreciative, fiercely loyal and did all she could to keep the family unit alive and well. Unfortunately, somehow, he got tangled with this woman who, instead of doing everything around the house, pining for him while he was away and taking care of him when he came home, resorted to a life of disloyalty and being a tramp.
> 
> He clearly deserves better.
> 
> I think that many people here put ourselves in his shoes when we opine. Right or wrong, coddling him may be a disservice. Attacking him too aggressively may also be a disservice. people like him attack us when we criticize her although when I say people like hi, he hasn't done this but others have. However, to most of us, we can't stand by and not opine when he wants to work it out with her or just go easy on her after what she did to him is demonic and while he's been killing himself to make her happy and put her on a pedestal.
> 
> To each their own, I guess. But I stand by what I said in this thread while also anointing him as the 'nicest guy of 2014' because I don't know anyone who would put up with such crap for so long.
> 
> He needs to get the ball rolling. I truly am on his side



Hmm, in my case my mother took over and was in charge while my father recovered from being an alcoholic. In this case, it was my mother who took up the reigns and kept everything afloat. Well after my father got his act together, did he become the head again. Although it was more of an equal relationship. Both worked full-time, both made time for each other, and us kids, both made us take on more and more household responsibilities. Actually my mother was in charge of certain things, and my father was in charge of the other things. They split the responsiblities. Of course I was a child in the 90's and things were changing then.


----------



## Q tip

BigTexDad said:


> Hey wmn1,
> 
> Yes. I am ready to lawyer up. Jyst trying to figure best way to do this to preserve assets and kids well-being. I don't think this is something that will move quickly. I am also in the process of building my case stronger with evidence. I have a PI attempting to bait her into having "chats" with him online for the mere purpose of collecting documentation.
> 
> What made her change? After she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and had to have a radical hysterectomy at the age of 37. It sent her hormones way out of whack and she completely changed. Like I said, I honored "in sickness and in health" at that time. Then in 2009 she had an online chat with a lifelong male family friend where she expressed feelings for him. I found it, was angry about it and confronted her about it and in doing so she "gaslit" me as her reason for looking outside the marriage. I knew that history was a pretty good indicator of future behavior and vowed I would not "react and confront" if/when it happened again but would rather build my case and gain documentation. In confronting her, she learned how to cover her tracks. But too much damage has occurred since then for me to ever be able to trust her. But rather than confront her now, I am just building my case. While my heart is still with this woman, it is broken. And the trust is gone. I don't see how I can live the rest of my life with someone I can't trust. Further, I think it sets a bad example for my kids. But given the level of assets at risk here, I have to build a case. In TX she is entitled to 3 years of spousal support. But I would prefer to just give her half now, have her sign away those 3 years and thus keep her from getting any of my company.


Hormone balance is everything. Was this managed? Also, out of whack is no excuse for bad behavior. You know this already...


----------



## happyman64

BigTex

Many of the issues you listed in your marriage occur when there is a special needs child in the mix.

Have you or your wife ever gotten professional counseling?

And I understand there is no trust of her. I get it.

Your wife is broken. And she might not be capable of fixing her issues.

Have you set a future date in your head when you will have your wife served or at least have a meeting with a lawyer together to discuss a divorce?

HM


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> Hey wmn1,
> 
> Yes. I am ready to lawyer up. Jyst trying to figure best way to do this to preserve assets and kids well-being. I don't think this is something that will move quickly. I am also in the process of building my case stronger with evidence. I have a PI attempting to bait her into having "chats" with him online for the mere purpose of collecting documentation.
> 
> What made her change? After she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and had to have a radical hysterectomy at the age of 37. It sent her hormones way out of whack and she completely changed. Like I said, I honored "in sickness and in health" at that time. Then in 2009 she had an online chat with a lifelong male family friend where she expressed feelings for him. I found it, was angry about it and confronted her about it and in doing so she "gaslit" me as her reason for looking outside the marriage. I knew that history was a pretty good indicator of future behavior and vowed I would not "react and confront" if/when it happened again but would rather build my case and gain documentation. In confronting her, she learned how to cover her tracks. But too much damage has occurred since then for me to ever be able to trust her. But rather than confront her now, I am just building my case. While my heart is still with this woman, it is broken. And the trust is gone. I don't see how I can live the rest of my life with someone I can't trust. Further, I think it sets a bad example for my kids. But given the level of assets at risk here, I have to build a case. In TX she is entitled to 3 years of spousal support. But I would prefer to just give her half now, have her sign away those 3 years and thus keep her from getting any of my company.



Good for you BigTex.

I am glad you have a gameplan and sorry if I was a bit harsh last night. I am in your corner and glad that you are doing what is best for you, your kids and hopefully you can move on at some point and fulfill your dreams for the rest of your life. As you said, too much damage is too much damage and you fulfilled your obligations to her 10 fold. Be prepared to fight tooth and nail as it won't be easy as divorce cases are rarely that but you have endured enough for an entire lifetime and I am glad you realize this and you only deserve the best from here on out. It suvcks to be in a position where you only stand to lose something but there is no price on peace of mind and hopefully you have it soon. There are other fish in the sea that won't cause a lifelong battle but I know that is in the future. Good luck


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> Hey wmn1,
> 
> Yes. I am ready to lawyer up. Jyst trying to figure best way to do this to preserve assets and kids well-being. I don't think this is something that will move quickly. I am also in the process of building my case stronger with evidence. I have a PI attempting to bait her into having "chats" with him online for the mere purpose of collecting documentation.
> 
> What made her change? After she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and had to have a radical hysterectomy at the age of 37. It sent her hormones way out of whack and she completely changed. Like I said, I honored "in sickness and in health" at that time. Then in 2009 she had an online chat with a lifelong male family friend where she expressed feelings for him. I found it, was angry about it and confronted her about it and in doing so she "gaslit" me as her reason for looking outside the marriage. I knew that history was a pretty good indicator of future behavior and vowed I would not "react and confront" if/when it happened again but would rather build my case and gain documentation. In confronting her, she learned how to cover her tracks. But too much damage has occurred since then for me to ever be able to trust her. But rather than confront her now, I am just building my case. While my heart is still with this woman, it is broken. And the trust is gone. I don't see how I can live the rest of my life with someone I can't trust. Further, I think it sets a bad example for my kids. But given the level of assets at risk here, I have to build a case. In TX she is entitled to 3 years of spousal support. But I would prefer to just give her half now, have her sign away those 3 years and thus keep her from getting any of my company.



good move on the PI as well


----------



## BigTexDad

Hey Happyman,

I suggested counseling 3 years ago and we went to a couple of sessions. The therapist was merely there to hear us vent for 50 mins and then bill us $150 for listening to us. She offered little to know help. I realized we needed a different therapist and suggested that but my wife just felt we were wasting our time based on the experience with first therapist. I am open to it still but seriously doubt it can fix the trust issues. I honestly think my wife is no longer in love with me and no therapist can fix that.

Sadly, I do think my wife will "wake up" and realize how bad she screwed up but only after I leave her. 

I wanted to avoid divorce altogether because all the studies show that most couples would not have divorced in the first place if they had only known how bad the experience is. But at this point, I will never trust her and I don't think I want to be with someone that I can't ever trust. I will never be in the good graces of her sister or my in-laws. And I don't really feel like doing battle with them anymore either.


----------



## Wazza

BigTex, I am going to be deliberately contrarian here, just to emphasise the other side of what you could consider. 

Trust is not "all or nothing" for me. I know what I can trust people with. So for example, I know my wife would never steal a cent from me, but she would lie to me without thought if she was worried about my reaction to something. I know that, under significant pressure, she was unfaithful at one point in our marriage, therefore it is possible she could do so again.

The thing is, I didn't marry expecting her to be unfaithful, and neither did you. And at one time in your life she was very faithful. Same for my wife. So how do you pick better next time? How do you trust the next lady?

My wife knows that I do not take her fidelity for granted, and if it happens again that will be it. She is reminded of this with every major financial decision we take, because while I try to be gentle about it, I always consider how things would play out if we divorce.

You could try the same approach with your wife. You could talk about the circumstances under which you are prepared to stay married, and what is a dealbreaker for you. Now, of course if your wife says "OK, I'm leaving" that is it. Therefore in your shoes I would complete my legal preparations before having a conversation with her. 

It might be the move that ends the marriage, or it might be the dose of cold water she needs to look at her own behaviour.

As for love....well I think you still love your wife (maybe I am wrong). After her affair, I knew my wife didn't love me, but over time I hoped it returned. I was never sure until a moment of truth...in my case when I looked up at her face from the ER bed where I lay with a life-threatening health issue.


----------



## Chaparral

Props Wazza.


----------



## BigTexDad

Hey Wazza,

Unfortunately, we have already had the dose of cold water. This is something she has done before. And I did this exact thing last time. And I gave her another chance. She pissed on that chance and as far as I am concerned she will just keep doing it with every chance I give her. I am not getting any younger and really don't want to waste any more of my life with someone who has clearly lost all respect for me and the marriage vows we shared. I forgave the first instance and wrote it off to her hormonal stuff due to her surgery. This time, there is no excuse. I honestly do not see how counseling or any other intervention can help us at this point. 

The plan now is to talk to an attorney and get the divorce plan going. Not looking forward to this but I think I have made my decision.


----------



## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Hey Wazza,
> 
> Unfortunately, we have already had the dose of cold water. This is something she has done before. And I did this exact thing last time. And I gave her another chance. She pissed on that chance and as far as I am concerned she will just keep doing it with every chance I give her. I am not getting any younger and really don't want to waste any more of my life with someone who has clearly lost all respect for me and the marriage vows we shared. I forgave the first instance and wrote it off to her hormonal stuff due to her surgery. This time, there is no excuse. I honestly do not see how counseling or any other intervention can help us at this point.
> 
> The plan now is to talk to an attorney and get the divorce plan going. Not looking forward to this but I think I have made my decision.


FWIW, I think you're making the right choice.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

As much as people want to help tex's wife. I do not see her changing until a catastrophic event occurs. When she went through her hysterectomy, a catastrophic event occurred where she went through major changes physiologically and mentally. My best guess is she wanted a lot of validation that she is still a woman, and she got high off the ego stroking that the other men provided. Plus the toxic people in her life help influence and change her personality and behavior. The people in her life help reinforce her bad behavior, because people have the tendency to follow the lowest common denominator of any group. That is why more often than not, toxic friends will bring down their friend along with them.

Tex is probably right when he stated that something major has to happen to snap her out of it, but by then it would probably be too late. People often that are walled in their insulated little world tend to need an explosive to break down the walls. An alcoholic does not tend to change until they lose their family and hit rock bottom. They needed a wake-up call because the alcohol acted like a wall.


----------



## Chaparral

BigTexDad said:


> I hear all of you and some are dead on and some are so far off the mark. The first 5 years of our marriage, we kept each other on a pedestal. She went the extra mile in everything and life was pure bliss. Then we had a child born with a disability. It took its toll on both of us. We both took on household chores as she was driving an hour and a half each way 3 times a week to take our daughter to therapy. On those days, i would have dinner prepared and try to lighten our load. And my daughter's therapy was continuous---my wife worked with her at home as well. So we both had to pick up the slack.
> 
> I went into this marriage giving her 1000% trust. When anyone goes into a marriage, you should feel like that person has your back at every turn. And I did. And she was trustworthy for the first 9-10 years. Then something happened. I wrote it off as a hormonal, menopausal mid-life crisis. And I honored my "in sickness and in health" vow through it all. Then things were good again for 2 years. And by 2009, she began to view our marriage as stagnant. I should also say here that I was laid off twice between 2009 and 2011. With no income, she did stick by me. So she felt something for me other than the $$$. Out of those layoffs I decided I needed to be my own boss. And she did help out a lot during the building of that business. But on the side she was playing these flirty/teasing games with other men. And I don't know where you got I went years without sex. Not so. So it is not that I am just some gullible lost sheep here. But I have chosen to turn the other cheek in order to honor my vows to set an example for my kids. To me, when you have kids, you and your own self wants and needs come second to them. I am not necessarily enabling my wife---at least that is not my intent. I am merely trying to keep my kids as my focus here.


"*I make really good money and it has allowed us to travel, see the world, etc. She never wants to have sex (ever) and has to get tipsy in order to go through with it with me. I quit trying in that area but as most men on here can attest---we have needs! And I will not be unfaithful to her*

This made it look like she has cut you off. Cutting a spouse off from sex is the biggest red flag of having an affair with one person. It looks like she is being faithful to another man.


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> Hey Wazza,
> 
> Unfortunately, we have already had the dose of cold water. This is something she has done before. And I did this exact thing last time. And I gave her another chance. She pissed on that chance and as far as I am concerned she will just keep doing it with every chance I give her. I am not getting any younger and really don't want to waste any more of my life with someone who has clearly lost all respect for me and the marriage vows we shared. I forgave the first instance and wrote it off to her hormonal stuff due to her surgery. This time, there is no excuse. I honestly do not see how counseling or any other intervention can help us at this point.
> 
> The plan now is to talk to an attorney and get the divorce plan going. Not looking forward to this but I think I have made my decision.


It sucks but its the way I would go
Just keep showing her your calling the shots and she has caused this and be as cool as possible showing strength


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, there are programs to retreive deleted texts from smart phones if you need it.


----------



## BigTexDad

So there was an interesting turn of events that has just transpired. My PI was able to get her to engage on a chat. He (posing as another man) asked if she would like to meet for coffee or lunch (a very non formal date). She dodged the offer. He pressed and she eventually came back to say that she was married and did not think it would be appropriate for her to meet with him. Of course she never met with any of the other random guys that she met on this game chat (and I know that for a fact). I don't know if this is a game where she is intentionally leading these guys on in a very flirtatious manner and just soaking up the ego stroke from them falling all over her or if she is truly cheating outside the marriage. But I figured she would have offered to meet up with this person. He also tried to get her to exchange "pics" with him and she boldly told him "no way". Now I am perplexed. Now I am thinking she is just hormonal again and wants/needs reassurance of her looking good? I tell her all the time. But why is it not enough coming from me? When pushed she does not agree to meet with these people and then blocks them on these game chats and I know for a fact that she has not caught on to me.

I still plan on moving forward with attorney because even these flirting games she is playing is wreaking havoc on my self-esteem. But any post menopausal/ hormonal women care to chime in if this is something they have done in the past?


----------



## karole

BigTexDad said:


> So there was an interesting turn of events that has just transpired. My PI was able to get her to engage on a chat. He (posing as another man) asked if she would like to meet for coffee or lunch (a very non formal date). She dodged the offer. He pressed and she eventually came back to say that she was married and did not think it would be appropriate for her to meet with him. Of course she never met with any of the other random guys that she met on this game chat (and I know that for a fact). I don't know if this is a game where she is intentionally leading these guys on in a very flirtatious manner and just soaking up the ego stroke from them falling all over her or if she is truly cheating outside the marriage. But I figured she would have offered to meet up with this person. He also tried to get her to exchange "pics" with him and she boldly told him "no way". Now I am perplexed. Now I am thinking she is just hormonal again and wants/needs reassurance of her looking good? I tell her all the time. But why is it not enough coming from me? When pushed she does not agree to meet with these people and then blocks them on these game chats and I know for a fact that she has not caught on to me.
> 
> I still plan on moving forward with attorney because even these flirting games she is playing is wreaking havoc on my self-esteem. But any post menopausal/ hormonal women care to chime in if this is something they have done in the past?


Uhm, NO! I have never had a reason to seek validation from men outside my marriage to give a rush to my self esteem. If I did something like that and my husband caught me doing it, it would most likely be the first and last time that I would be doing it as his wife.


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> Hey Wazza,
> 
> Unfortunately, we have already had the dose of cold water. This is something she has done before. And I did this exact thing last time. And I gave her another chance. She pissed on that chance and as far as I am concerned she will just keep doing it with every chance I give her. I am not getting any younger and really don't want to waste any more of my life with someone who has clearly lost all respect for me and the marriage vows we shared. I forgave the first instance and wrote it off to her hormonal stuff due to her surgery. This time, there is no excuse. I honestly do not see how counseling or any other intervention can help us at this point.
> 
> The plan now is to talk to an attorney and get the divorce plan going. Not looking forward to this but I think I have made my decision.



good for you. Decisiveness is your friend now brother


----------



## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> So there was an interesting turn of events that has just transpired. My PI was able to get her to engage on a chat. He (posing as another man) asked if she would like to meet for coffee or lunch (a very non formal date). She dodged the offer. He pressed and she eventually came back to say that she was married and did not think it would be appropriate for her to meet with him. Of course she never met with any of the other random guys that she met on this game chat (and I know that for a fact). I don't know if this is a game where she is intentionally leading these guys on in a very flirtatious manner and just soaking up the ego stroke from them falling all over her or if she is truly cheating outside the marriage. But I figured she would have offered to meet up with this person. He also tried to get her to exchange "pics" with him and she boldly told him "no way". Now I am perplexed. Now I am thinking she is just hormonal again and wants/needs reassurance of her looking good? I tell her all the time. But why is it not enough coming from me? When pushed she does not agree to meet with these people and then blocks them on these game chats and I know for a fact that she has not caught on to me.
> 
> I still plan on moving forward with attorney because even these flirting games she is playing is wreaking havoc on my self-esteem. But any post menopausal/ hormonal women care to chime in if this is something they have done in the past?


Hmm... I wonder if she's onto you. Have you been logging out of TAM and deleting browser history?


----------



## ArmyofJuan

I want to address a couple of things in the first post since I don't think they have been brought up (I may have missed them),



BigTexDad said:


> When I logged back on, I noticed an open Facebook chat with this lifelong friend. In it, she said that she "had butterflies in her stomach" seeing him on July 4th at her parents house and how she had to "go fulfill her wife duties" with me but "would be thinking of him" the entire time. *She even went so far as to refer to having sex with me as "gross"*.


You know this is a lie, she only told him that to keep him interested. You have to watch out for stuff like this and don't take it personally.



> I love this woman so much, I would rather see her happy with someone else than be miserable with me if that is the case


You are so focused on her but what about you? She is not worried about your happiness, only her own. I don't understand what you were getting out of this relationship.



> *She again offered to leave* but blamed me for all her actions. I told her she could run away from her problems but that won't make them go away.
> 
> She again blamed me and *offered to leave*. I told her that I did not want her to leave but I could not figure out what I was doing wrong to make her want to lead other men on.


She was calling your bluff and you fell for it. Your reaction showed her she still had you under her thumb which meant she had no motivation to change. 

_ETA: I really meant to say she was bluffing, she knew you wouldn't let her go and said that to turn the tables on you. Next time she "offers" show her the door, don't allow her to manipulate you like this._

I see now you are trying to get out of it but if there was a snowball's chance in hell for an R you need to start manning up and not let her run the show. She is not some goddess, she is just a women who happens to not respect you because you let her get away with too much. You need to keep one foot out the door and she needs to be scared out of her wits that you are going to D her and not be nice about it before she even thinks about changing her behavior.

Women don't want their assses kissed, it like they are not programmed to handle it and look for some kind of drama to stimulate them. Without something to struggle against, humans get bored and self destructive.


----------



## ThePheonix

BigTexDad said:


> My PI was able to get her to engage on a chat. He (posing as another man) asked if she would like to meet for coffee or lunch (a very non formal date). She dodged the offer. He pressed and she eventually came back to say that she was married and did not think it would be appropriate for her to meet with him.


The guy is pushing to hard and to quick for a meet up. He needs to be more of a challenge. He's seems to be coming on like a new car salesman.


----------



## lordmayhem

BigTexDad said:


> Now I am thinking she is just hormonal again and wants/needs reassurance of her looking good? I tell her all the time. But why is it not enough coming from me?


Why? Because you are her husband and its expected of you and takes it for granted. That's why it means nothing to her if you tell her she looks good. I did the same thing, I would always tell her how good she looks, etc. But when another man tells her the same thing, it gives her the butterflies in her stomach. It's that *OUTSIDE VALIDATION* that she craves.


----------



## alte Dame

BigTexDad said:


> But any post menopausal/ hormonal women care to chime in if this is something they have done in the past?


Hormonal changes at this age can corollate with acting out in this way, yes.

BUT, this is zero justification. A woman who is driven by hormones to behave counter to her known personality is very aware that she is feeling and acting different. She should seek treatment.

There are numerous threads here where it seemed very possible that ppd or menopause were major contributors to bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior. Usually the connection is remarked upon and then ignored, by both the OP and the posters. (In one case, a young mother's hair was actually falling out after the birth of her second child, but she went untreated.)

From a 2007 CNN Health piece on menopause:

"Hormonal changes certainly lead to behavioral changes, researcher Brizendine says, offering a fascinating statistic: Contrary to conventional wisdom that men often dump their menopausal wives, government statistics show that after age 50, 65 percent of divorces are initiated by women. It may be bold, even reckless to reason that seismic hormonal shifts are breaking up marriages, but Brizendine suggests that as a woman's brain chemistry changes, she may, too -- and some of that has to do with oxytocin, that feel-good hormone women get from sex or a massage, cuddling a baby or simply hugging someone for a good 20 seconds. When her estrogen levels naturally decrease over time, so does a woman's oxytocin, and she may become less "we" focused and more "me" focused as a result."


----------



## Wazza

alte Dame said:


> Hormonal changes at this age can corollate with acting out in this way, yes.
> 
> BUT, this is zero justification. A woman who is driven by hormones to behave counter to her known personality is very aware that she is feeling and acting different. She should seek treatment.
> 
> There are numerous threads here where it seemed very possible that ppd or menopause were major contributors to bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior. Usually the connection is remarked upon and then ignored, by both the OP and the posters. (In one case, a young mother's hair was actually falling out after the birth of her second child, but she went untreated.)
> 
> From a 2007 CNN Health piece on menopause:
> 
> "Hormonal changes certainly lead to behavioral changes, researcher Brizendine says, offering a fascinating statistic: Contrary to conventional wisdom that men often dump their menopausal wives, government statistics show that after age 50, 65 percent of divorces are initiated by women. It may be bold, even reckless to reason that seismic hormonal shifts are breaking up marriages, but Brizendine suggests that as a woman's brain chemistry changes, she may, too -- and some of that has to do with oxytocin, that feel-good hormone women get from sex or a massage, cuddling a baby or simply hugging someone for a good 20 seconds. When her estrogen levels naturally decrease over time, so does a woman's oxytocin, and she may become less "we" focused and more "me" focused as a result."


Justification vs explanation. Hormones don't give a lady a free pass to cheat, but if they explain and help categorize her behaviour it is worth thinking about.

If you get cheated on and you are considering reconciliation, one of the burning questions is "Has she just shown me her true colors, or is this out of character and unlikely to repeat".

One of the reasons I could reconcile is that infidelity is out of character for my wife. Would be a very different story if this had been her normal character.


----------



## Mr Right

alte Dame said:


> Hormonal changes at this age can corollate with acting out in this way, yes.
> 
> BUT, this is zero justification. A woman who is driven by hormones to behave counter to her known personality is very aware that she is feeling and acting different. She should seek treatment.
> 
> There are numerous threads here where it seemed very possible that ppd or menopause were major contributors to bizarre, uncharacteristic behavior. Usually the connection is remarked upon and then ignored, by both the OP and the posters. (In one case, a young mother's hair was actually falling out after the birth of her second child, but she went untreated.)
> 
> From a 2007 CNN Health piece on menopause:
> 
> "Hormonal changes certainly lead to behavioral changes, researcher Brizendine says, offering a fascinating statistic: Contrary to conventional wisdom that men often dump their menopausal wives, government statistics show that after age 50, 65 percent of divorces are initiated by women. It may be bold, even reckless to reason that seismic hormonal shifts are breaking up marriages, but Brizendine suggests that as a woman's brain chemistry changes, she may, too -- and some of that has to do with oxytocin, that feel-good hormone women get from sex or a massage, cuddling a baby or simply hugging someone for a good 20 seconds. When her estrogen levels naturally decrease over time, so does a woman's oxytocin, and she may become less "we" focused and more "me" focused as a result."


Pretty sure something like 75% of women have a significant amount of hair fall out after the birth of a child.


----------



## alte Dame

Mr Right said:


> Pretty sure something like 75% of women have a significant amount of hair fall out after the birth of a child.


This particular woman had large bald spots and the doctor pointed to serious hormonal issues.


----------



## BigTexDad

Wazza said:


> Justification vs explanation. Hormones don't give a lady a free pass to cheat, but if they explain and help categorize her behaviour it is worth thinking about.
> 
> If you get cheated on and you are considering reconciliation, one of the burning questions is "Has she just shown me her true colors, or is this out of character and unlikely to repeat".
> 
> One of the reasons I could reconcile is that infidelity is out of character for my wife. Would be a very different story if this had been her normal character.


I considered her health condition 5 years ago when the one instance happened. And I cut her some slack. Like I said, I honored the "in sickness and health" vow. But now it is inexcusable. And she does not know that I am on to her latest escapade. BUt I have serious documentation.


----------



## workindad

Take advantage of the new year and the opportunity to rebuild your life. See that lawyer and get the process started!

Easy on the booze also, doesn't sound like a good mix for electrical work.


----------



## Wazza

Happy new year 

Know how it feels. Sorry.


----------



## Thistle77

Am brand new here but have a similar problem....so tell me...is it better to start a new thread as the wife whose husband sexts/online cruises and chats/met one woman??? Or just jump in with an already established thread? I need some objective ears and input.....Thx.


----------



## oddball

Start your own thread. Your stories may be similar, but you will get better responses in your own thread


----------



## wmn1

ok Big tx, where do things sit ??


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Please, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html for protection!

Best wishes


----------



## BigTexDad

Hi Thistle77.

Feel free to IM me and I will help you catch him!

And welcome to the group! I am new but you are in good company as these guys have been a huge support to me in my dilemma!

Hey WMN,

Well as we speak I am just pretending like nothing special is happening. My PI said to just move forward like nothing is bothering me and spoil her like everything is great and then in the meantime to meet with attorney and get game plan going. I have to be careful as I can not let her know what is being planned as I plan to have her served out of the blue. I am planning on sending her and her mom on a trip so I can get my stuff out of the house while she is gone. I plan to have her served as she walks off the plane coming back! ;-)


----------



## tom67

BigTexDad said:


> Hi Thistle77.
> 
> Feel free to IM me and I will help you catch him!
> 
> And welcome to the group! I am new but you are in good company as these guys have been a huge support to me in my dilemma!
> 
> Hey WMN,
> 
> Well as we speak I am just pretending like nothing special is happening. My PI said to just move forward like nothing is bothering me and spoil her like everything is great and then in the meantime to meet with attorney and get game plan going. I have to be careful as I can not let her know what is being planned as I plan to have her served out of the blue. I am planning on sending her and her mom on a trip so I can get my stuff out of the house while she is gone. I plan to have her served as she walks off the plane coming back! ;-)


:FIREdevil::FIREdevil:
Solid plan Tex.:lol:


----------



## workindad

BigTexDad said:


> Hi Thistle77.
> 
> 
> Well as we speak I am just pretending like nothing special is happening. My PI said to just move forward like nothing is bothering me and spoil her like everything is great and then in the meantime to meet with attorney and get game plan going. I have to be careful as I can not let her know what is being planned as I plan to have her served out of the blue. I am planning on sending her and her mom on a trip so I can get my stuff out of the house while she is gone. I plan to have her served as she walks off the plane coming back! ;-)


Good plan- you could consider a small twist- get her a one way ticket and have her served at her vacation spot. :rofl::rofl:


----------



## wmn1

BigTexDad said:


> Hi Thistle77.
> 
> Feel free to IM me and I will help you catch him!
> 
> And welcome to the group! I am new but you are in good company as these guys have been a huge support to me in my dilemma!
> 
> Hey WMN,
> 
> Well as we speak I am just pretending like nothing special is happening. My PI said to just move forward like nothing is bothering me and spoil her like everything is great and then in the meantime to meet with attorney and get game plan going. I have to be careful as I can not let her know what is being planned as I plan to have her served out of the blue. I am planning on sending her and her mom on a trip so I can get my stuff out of the house while she is gone. I plan to have her served as she walks off the plane coming back! ;-)


Excellent plan. Just make sure you speak to the attorney about your rights regarding the house since you will be the one moving out. Good idea getting the stuff out of the house without interference from her and also good idea to have her served that way for shock value.

I am hoping that you have a plan for step 2 which is when she comes crawling back on her hands and knees to you because her money ticket is gone or in case she has a second awakening and realizes what she has lost. 

Stay strong and win this thing !!


----------



## southernsurf

Thistle77 said:


> Am brand new here but have a similar problem....so tell me...is it better to start a new thread as the wife whose husband sexts/online cruises and chats/met one woman??? Or just jump in with an already established thread? I need some objective ears and input.....Thx.


start a new thread with your story / details and there will be a veteran gang at your beckon call as both an ear, sounding board and friend. Know that you aren't going through it alone, you'd be surprised how the scripts never change and you can flip the table on them very fast with a few tips.......


----------



## BigTexDad

Well just dropped the bomb. She ain't taking it too well. In fact I am flat out worried for her mental state. Even with proof she is denying it. Will update as more transpires.


----------



## Chaparral

BigTexDad said:


> Well just dropped the bomb. She ain't taking it too well. In fact I am flat out worried for her mental state. Even with proof she is denying it. Will update as more transpires.


Good luck and prayers


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> Well just dropped the bomb. She ain't taking it too well. In fact I am flat out worried for her mental state. Even with proof she is denying it. Will update as more transpires.


Full steam ahead and lets hope it goes your way with out too many waves


----------



## BigTexDad

Well first thing she did was call the toxic sister. Then she attempted to clean out bank acct. All par for the course. But I have safeguards on acct to ensure that she can't do too much damage


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> Well first thing she did was call the toxic sister. Then she attempted to clean out bank acct. All par for the course. But I have safeguards on acct to ensure that she can't do too much damage


First left hook missed :smthumbup:


----------



## BigTexDad

I also revealed her online chats (the "clean" ones) to my son so she could not attempt to brainwash them. I explained to him that we would be going our separate ways and that I was not abandoning them. In times past when Inwould leave she would explain to the kids what a horrible person I was and that Inwas abandoning them. He is old enough now to know what is going on so I showed him. He gets it.


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> I also revealed her online chats (the "clean" ones) to my son so she could not attempt to brainwash them. I explained to him that we would be going our separate ways and that I was not abandoning them. In times past when Inwould leave she would explain to the kids what a horrible person I was and that Inwas abandoning them. He is old enough now to know what is going on so I showed him. He gets it.


responds with a straight right :smthumbup:


----------



## weightlifter

Damn. Mental note.

Dont mess with btd.


----------



## 3putt

BigTexDad said:


> Well first thing she did was call the toxic sister. Then she attempted to clean out bank acct. All par for the course. But I have safeguards on acct to ensure that she can't do too much damage


Well, that tells you all you need to know. Hardly surprising, though.


----------



## BigTexDad

Well, it did not go down like I wanted. She knew something was up and had been asking a lot of questions. I know she did not see any history of me being on this site. I clear my history every time (sadly-learned how to do that from her). But she kept asking "what was wrong" and of course she would complain about my snoring (she even gets mad at me for that). She snapped and got all pissy and asked why I changed my password on the computer (funny thing is that I didn't change it!!! :scratch head: ). I asked her that "even if I did change my password" is that wrong or does that indicate something to hide?? (it was a loaded question). So I turned and asked, "well if there is something to hide then why have you been changing yours so much?" She played dumb. Then I told her that I did not think that I could make her happy. She said that I don't "try to make her happy". Yeah….built her that dream home, waited on her ass hand and foot while she recovered from all 12,000 of her munchausen surgeries, take and pick kids up from schools, cook dinner, do grocery shopping, do laundry. I asked "what am I missing?" What more could you possibly want? I then answered my own question and told her that she has not been happy/satisfied with me as a husband for quite sometime and that would explain why she is seeking out chats with random stranger men on her little Dice game. She denied it all. Then I told her I had proof and asked if she would like to see the screenshots. She said no. Once we got home she grabbed the keys to the other car, tore out of the driveway violently, drove straight to the bank and then went straight to the school to pick the kids up (to start the brainwashing). Too bad I was one step ahead of her. I was able to text my son before he came out to let him know what was up and that he is to not cut off contact with me (like she had him do last time). I explained why and how there are 3 sides to every story and he needed to hear mine before he cut off contact with me. He agreed and once he saw the screenshots, he then knew who was guilty here. Sad that I had to involve one of the kids but I had to to keep her from hiding them from me again and having them cut off all contact with me. She plays very dirty and with the likings of her friends and sister, she has personal consultants to the "how to play dirty in a divorce" handbook. I have to stay one step ahead of her in this. Now I am trying to contemplate her next move. Any ideas what I may need to be looking over my shoulder for?


----------



## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Well, it did not go down like I wanted. She knew something was up and had been asking a lot of questions. I know she did not see any history of me being on this site. I clear my history every time (sadly-learned how to do that from her). But she kept asking "what was wrong" and of course she would complain about my snoring (she even gets mad at me for that). She snapped and got all pissy and asked why I changed my password on the computer (funny thing is that I didn't change it!!! :scratch head: ). I asked her that "even if I did change my password" is that wrong or does that indicate something to hide?? (it was a loaded question). So I turned and asked, "well if there is something to hide then why have you been changing yours so much?" She played dumb. Then I told her that I did not think that I could make her happy. She said that I don't "try to make her happy". Yeah….built her that dream home, waited on her ass hand and foot while she recovered from all 12,000 of her munchausen surgeries, take and pick kids up from schools, cook dinner, do grocery shopping, do laundry. I asked "what am I missing?" What more could you possibly want? I then answered my own question and told her that she has not been happy/satisfied with me as a husband for quite sometime and that would explain why she is seeking out chats with random stranger men on her little Dice game. She denied it all. Then I told her I had proof and asked if she would like to see the screenshots. She said no. Once we got home she grabbed the keys to the other car, tore out of the driveway violently, drove straight to the bank and then went straight to the school to pick the kids up (to start the brainwashing). Too bad I was one step ahead of her. I was able to text my son before he came out to let him know what was up and that he is to not cut off contact with me (like she had him do last time). I explained why and how there are 3 sides to every story and he needed to hear mine before he cut off contact with me. He agreed and once he saw the screenshots, he then knew who was guilty here. Sad that I had to involve one of the kids but I had to to keep her from hiding them from me again and having them cut off all contact with me. She plays very dirty and with the likings of her friends and sister, she has personal consultants to the "how to play dirty in a divorce" handbook. I have to stay one step ahead of her in this. Now I am trying to contemplate her next move. *Any ideas what I may need to be looking over my shoulder for?*


A loaded shotgun.


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> Well, it did not go down like I wanted. She knew something was up and had been asking a lot of questions. I know she did not see any history of me being on this site. I clear my history every time (sadly-learned how to do that from her). But she kept asking "what was wrong" and of course she would complain about my snoring (she even gets mad at me for that). She snapped and got all pissy and asked why I changed my password on the computer (funny thing is that I didn't change it!!! :scratch head: ). I asked her that "even if I did change my password" is that wrong or does that indicate something to hide?? (it was a loaded question). So I turned and asked, "well if there is something to hide then why have you been changing yours so much?" She played dumb. Then I told her that I did not think that I could make her happy. She said that I don't "try to make her happy". Yeah….built her that dream home, waited on her ass hand and foot while she recovered from all 12,000 of her munchausen surgeries, take and pick kids up from schools, cook dinner, do grocery shopping, do laundry. I asked "what am I missing?" What more could you possibly want? I then answered my own question and told her that she has not been happy/satisfied with me as a husband for quite sometime and that would explain why she is seeking out chats with random stranger men on her little Dice game. She denied it all. Then I told her I had proof and asked if she would like to see the screenshots. She said no. Once we got home she grabbed the keys to the other car, tore out of the driveway violently, drove straight to the bank and then went straight to the school to pick the kids up (to start the brainwashing). Too bad I was one step ahead of her. I was able to text my son before he came out to let him know what was up and that he is to not cut off contact with me (like she had him do last time). I explained why and how there are 3 sides to every story and he needed to hear mine before he cut off contact with me. He agreed and once he saw the screenshots, he then knew who was guilty here. Sad that I had to involve one of the kids but I had to to keep her from hiding them from me again and having them cut off all contact with me. She plays very dirty and with the likings of her friends and sister, she has personal consultants to the "how to play dirty in a divorce" handbook. I have to stay one step ahead of her in this. Now I am trying to contemplate her next move. Any ideas what I may need to be looking over my shoulder for?


You will get a lot of advice shortly

first of all 
What exactly do you want to happen or more importantly where do you want to be in a years time

If it doesn't effect anything and I hope you have talked to your lawyer
Get out And Go dark for a few days-if shes staying at sisters stay there
Don't answer text/phone only to your son (And ask him to tell her as little as possible)
If you have to speak make sure you have VAR with you at all times


----------



## karole

Keep a VAR on you at all times!!


----------



## Catherine602

My guess is that she will attempt to play nice with you with an eye to planning her exit. Did you see a lawyer yet? Do you know what you need to do to make sure you see the children? There is some kind of legal document that you can get to force her to let you have them. 

I think you disclosed too soon but it's done. I would play along with her when she try's to get back in your good graces. Make sure that you tie up fiancees. She showed her hand with the attempt to take money. Cancel credit cards and get a legal separation so her debts will belong to her. 

Seeing a lawyer and getting a legal separation does not mean you will D. So if you need time to get emotionally acclimated you can do that and protect yourself at the same time. Don't leave your house. Make sure that you have important papers secured. Get all of your financial document together and keep them safe. Monitor your accounts and credit report in case she tries to get credit cards in your name. 

Read the books on how to screw a spouse in a D so you can anticipate what she will do. She is hot headed and lacks forethought. You can beat her at her own game. Keep her off balance by staying cool, being consistent and not talking too much. Just say the same thing - she is cheating with OM and you have evidence. You want her to be happy and free to do as she pleases.


----------



## Meli33

Definitely keep a VAR on you at all times when with her.


----------



## BigTexDad

Catherine602 said:


> My guess is that she will attempt to play nice with you with an eye to planning her exit. Did you see a lawyer yet? Do you know what you need to do to make sure you see the children? There is some kind of legal document that you can get to force her to let you have them.
> 
> I think you disclosed too soon but it's done. I would play along with her when she try's to get back in your good graces. Make sure that you tie up fiancees. She showed her hand with the attempt to take money. Cancel credit cards and get a legal separation so her debts will belong to her.
> 
> Seeing a lawyer and getting a legal separation does not mean you will D. So if you need time to get emotionally acclimated you can do that and protect yourself at the same time. Don't leave your house. Make sure that you have important papers secured. Get all of your financial document together and keep them safe. Monitor your accounts and credit report in case she tries to get credit cards in your name.
> 
> Read the books on how to screw a spouse in a D so can anticipate what she will do. She is hot headed and lacks forethought. You can beat her at her own game. Keep her off balance by staying cool, being consistent and not talking too much. Just say the same thing - she is cheating with OM and you have evidence. You want her to be happy and free to do as she pleases.


Thanks Catherine! Son and I went for a long drive tonight to discuss a lot of things. I told him that I do not want him taking sides as she is still his mother and he still needs to respect and defend her honor (hehe---honor). It is my hope that he is old enough to decipher that the one bad-mouthing the other is the guilty party. I told him tonight that there is a lot more that he does not know but I need him to have faith in what I am telling him. Fortunately, my son is very level-headed and strong in his spiritual faith so he understands the concept in "believing without seeing". 2 years ago we had a fight, she went to her alcoholic/bulemic/drug-addicted/adulter sister's house. This sister with all the baggage somehow thinks she is qualified to offer marriage counseling and advice to her sister. To me, it is like letting Jeffrey Dahmer host an episode of Chopped. She took him aside and literally interrogated him about me. He said that it was almost like she was digging for dirt. I asked him what he plans to do this time and he said "dad, I am not stupid. I know what she was doing. Don't worry. I will tell her that it is none of her business about the relationship I have with my dad." I also told my son that when he was younger, he was often brain-washed and told what to think about me. After hearing him talk tonight, she has said some pretty awful things about me over the years and has poisoned his mind into thinking I am someone that I am not. I asked him if she ever defended me to her sister or said nice things about me and he said "only when she wants something". Figures. 

I did consult my attorney and he is working on filing for legal separation ASAP. I meet with him again tomorrow. The house situation is a sticky one. We live on acreage in a converted barn until the house is finished being built (that is another headache I am contending with). Long story short, I am serving as the general contractor on my own home. We are about 98% done and had planned to move in within the next few weeks. It will obviously have to be sold and assets divided.

I have done a lot of reflecting on the past few years. And asked a lot of questions. It appears that not only has my wife been having inappropriate chats with other men, she has been filling my kids heads with all sorts of crap. That is my biggest concern now. How much damage has she done? How warped is their perception of who I really am? She has "gaslit" my kids! That is psychopathic behavior.

I have been wondering why my confidence in every aspect of my life has been slowly eroding. It boils down to her emotional (and likely physical) affairs, talking bad about me at every turn to everyone (friends, family, even my own kids). I have wondered if I had some sort of disease or something the way our friends have acted and treated me over the years. It all makes sense now. She has been "lobbying" everyone to side with her in the event something like this happens. She has literally been leading a double life. ****ting around online with strange men and talking about me like I am her biggest enemy.

She has apparently told everyone for years that I am a control freak and that I try to control every aspect of her life (who she hangs out with, friends, activities, lifestyle, health habits, etc.). At times, she has even had me questioning myself as to whether I was or not. But looking back, I was just being a normal concerned husband. A lot of what she was perceiving as "controlling" was nothing more than me showing concern. I realized tonight just how beat down she has me. I don't even feel like I have the energy to go through a divorce. And sadly, I think she knows that. This has been her plan all along…..a war of attrition. She has worn me down to someone with no confidence who does not have the energy to fight.

I figure she will play the buddy up to me nice thing in the coming weeks in order to "keep her enemy" closer. But I know that game all too well. And I have read far too many stories on TAM to know better. 

I explained to her tonight that it was very stupid to start taking money from the accounts and that it would all be accounted for in a divorce. I also told her that all accounts have been frozen as far as she is concerned and that my credit is "locked" (I have life lock---changed all my pass codes with them so no one can apply for credit without those pass codes and without my approval). Since this is a community state, she effectively owns half of any financial burdens that she drives us into going forward. 

Since she left the premises and went to her sisters (packed and all) and I remain here, does that mean that I get to stay here? Can she have me removed? I am the sole bread winner and I pay all the bills.


----------



## BigTexDad

Also, what is the 180 everyone keeps talking about? Could someone post a link to it?


----------



## BigTexDad

BigTexDad said:


> Also, what is the 180 everyone keeps talking about? Could someone post a link to it?


Nevermind. I found it. I think we are too far for this.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BigTexDad said:


> Thanks Catherine! Son and I went for a long drive tonight to discuss a lot of things. I told him that I do not want him taking sides as she is still his mother and he still needs to respect and defend her honor (hehe---honor). It is my hope that he is old enough to decipher that the one bad-mouthing the other is the guilty party. I told him tonight that there is a lot more that he does not know but I need him to have faith in what I am telling him. Fortunately, my son is very level-headed and strong in his spiritual faith so he understands the concept in "believing without seeing". 2 years ago we had a fight, she went to her alcoholic/bulemic/drug-addicted/adulter sister's house. This sister with all the baggage somehow thinks she is qualified to offer marriage counseling and advice to her sister. To me, it is like letting Jeffrey Dahmer host an episode of Chopped. She took him aside and literally interrogated him about me. He said that it was almost like she was digging for dirt. I asked him what he plans to do this time and he said "dad, I am not stupid. I know what she was doing. Don't worry. I will tell her that it is none of her business about the relationship I have with my dad." I also told my son that when he was younger, he was often brain-washed and told what to think about me. After hearing him talk tonight, she has said some pretty awful things about me over the years and has poisoned his mind into thinking I am someone that I am not. I asked him if she ever defended me to her sister or said nice things about me and he said "only when she wants something". Figures.
> 
> I did consult my attorney and he is working on filing for legal separation ASAP. I meet with him again tomorrow. The house situation is a sticky one. We live on acreage in a converted barn until the house is finished being built (that is another headache I am contending with). Long story short, I am serving as the general contractor on my own home. We are about 98% done and had planned to move in within the next few weeks. It will obviously have to be sold and assets divided.
> 
> I have done a lot of reflecting on the past few years. And asked a lot of questions. It appears that not only has my wife been having inappropriate chats with other men, she has been filling my kids heads with all sorts of crap. That is my biggest concern now. How much damage has she done? How warped is their perception of who I really am? She has "gaslit" my kids! That is psychopathic behavior.
> 
> I have been wondering why my confidence in every aspect of my life has been slowly eroding. It boils down to her emotional (and likely physical) affairs, talking bad about me at every turn to everyone (friends, family, even my own kids). I have wondered if I had some sort of disease or something the way our friends have acted and treated me over the years. It all makes sense now. She has been "lobbying" everyone to side with her in the event something like this happens. She has literally been leading a double life. ****ting around online with strange men and talking about me like I am her biggest enemy.
> 
> She has apparently told everyone for years that I am a control freak and that I try to control every aspect of her life (who she hangs out with, friends, activities, lifestyle, health habits, etc.). At times, she has even had me questioning myself as to whether I was or not. But looking back, I was just being a normal concerned husband. A lot of what she was perceiving as "controlling" was nothing more than me showing concern. I realized tonight just how beat down she has me. I don't even feel like I have the energy to go through a divorce. And sadly, I think she knows that. This has been her plan all along…..a war of attrition. She has worn me down to someone with no confidence who does not have the energy to fight.
> 
> I figure she will play the buddy up to me nice thing in the coming weeks in order to "keep her enemy" closer. But I know that game all too well. And I have read far too many stories on TAM to know better.
> 
> I explained to her tonight that it was very stupid to start taking money from the accounts and that it would all be accounted for in a divorce. I also told her that all accounts have been frozen as far as she is concerned and that my credit is "locked" (I have life lock---changed all my pass codes with them so no one can apply for credit without those pass codes and without my approval). Since this is a community state, she effectively owns half of any financial burdens that she drives us into going forward.
> 
> *Since she left the premises and went to her sisters (packed and all) and I remain here, does that mean that I get to stay here? Can she have me removed? I am the sole bread winner and I pay all the bills.*


She can get you removed if you fail to follow the advice to *ALWAYS HAVE A VAR ON IN YOUR POCKET. *If she comes home she can call the police and say you hit her or pushed her or threatened to kill her and they'll take you to jail right then and there if you don't have a var with a recording of your conversation with her proving that she's lying. Once they've hauled you off in cuffs she'll apply for an order of protection and a judge will give it to her no matter what you say. You'll have your chance in court later, but by then the damage will be done and you'll have been out on your ass for a month or two.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BigTexDad said:


> Nevermind. I found it. I think we are too far for this.


No you're not, if you're using it for it's intended purpose. It's not a tool to win her back, that's something that occasionally happens. It's intended purpose is to help you move on from this relationship and now is a good time to implement it. Ignore any parts that don't apply and do the rest.


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## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Also, what is the 180 everyone keeps talking about? Could someone post a link to it?





BigTexDad said:


> Nevermind. I found it. I think we are too far for this.


Only if you're thinking of it as a tool to use to get her back. The true objective of the 180 is to help you to detach from her; that it often works to bring a wayward spouse back to the marriage is nothing more than a side effect.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> No you're not, if you're using it for it's intended purpose. It's not a tool to win her back, that's something that occasionally happens. It's intended purpose is to help you move on from this relationship and now is a good time to implement it. Ignore any parts that don't apply and do the rest.


Word.


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## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> She can get you removed if you fail to follow the advice to *ALWAYS HAVE A VAR ON IN YOUR POCKET.* If she comes home she can call the police and say you hit her or pushed her or threatened to kill her and they'll take you to jail right then and there if you don't have a var with a recording of your conversation with her proving that she's lying. Once they've hauled you off in cuffs she'll apply for an order of protection and a judge will give it to her no matter what you say. You'll have your chance in court later, but by then the damage will be done and you'll have been out on your ass for a month or two.


Word. Head to your local Best Buy and pick up a Sony ICDPX333. Pair it w/ lithium batteries to get the best bang for your buck.


----------



## lordmayhem

BigTexDad said:


> Since she left the premises and went to her sisters (packed and all) and I remain here, does that mean that I get to stay here? Can she have me removed? I am the sole bread winner and I pay all the bills.


No, she cannot have you removed or tell you to get out. HOWEVER you must be very careful and have the VAR on you at all times she is around. From what you describe, she's an expert at playing the victim. She could call the police on you and make false reports of domestic violence. In the event she calls the police, follow the newbie thread in my signature, and in there, I have a post about how to deal with the police if that happens. 

She can also make a false allegation to have a Restraining Order/Protection Order against you. This Order, signed by a Judge, would have you removed from the home. The good news is that you have the legal right to contest any order, but in the meantime you would have to leave, but only if ordered to by a Judge ,not police, the police CANNOT order you to leave because that is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. They might ask you to leave in order to keep the peace but you don't have to obey, only a Judge can legally order you out of the home via a Restraining Order/Protection Order. If you get served with one, you immediately contest it and without proof, it will get thrown out.


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## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> I explained to her tonight that it was very stupid to start taking money from the accounts and that it would all be accounted for in a divorce. I also told her that all accounts have been frozen as far as she is concerned and that my credit is "locked" (I have life lock---changed all my pass codes with them so no one can apply for credit without those pass codes and without my approval). Since this is a community state, *she effectively owns half of any financial burdens that she drives us into going forward.*


Only until the separation is in place; after that point, each of you should be responsible for only your own financial decisions going forward.



BigTexDad said:


> Since she left the premises and went to her sisters (packed and all) and I remain here, does that mean that I get to stay here? Can she have me removed? I am the sole bread winner and I pay all the bills.


Talk to your lawyer. Her leaving may very well amount to abandonment, which could only work in your favor.


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## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Once they've hauled you off in cuffs she'll apply for an order of protection and a judge will give it to her no matter what you say. You'll have your chance in court later, but by then the damage will be done and you'll have been out on your ass for a month or two.


Sad but true. Judges will grant a Protection Order based solely on a woman's say so because of the spectre of domestic violence. This is how women take advantage of the system. Yes, the man has the chance to contest the order and have his day in court, but the damage is done, and in the meantime, the man is removed from his home. And sometimes, it can take a while to get the court date to contest the order.

This is how women like this take advantage of the system; because they are a woman, she will claim some type of abuse and it's automatically believed, again, because she is female.


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## Affaircare

lordmayhem said:


> No, she cannot have you removed or tell you to get out. HOWEVER you must be very careful and have the VAR on you at all times she is around. From what you describe, she's an expert at playing the victim. She could call the police on you and make false reports of domestic violence. In the event she calls the police, follow the newbie thread in my signature, and in there, I have a post about how to deal with the police if that happens.


Here is a link to the post (it's on like page 8 and who looks that far?) http://talkaboutmarriage.com/902012-post110.html 

This is EXTREMELY serious and is exactly what a dirty player will be instructed to do. If she comes back, she is likely to try to bait you into some sort of fight, call the cops, claim domestic violence, and cops usually haul the man away to jail. In the meantime, she gets a Temporary Restraining Order, and a judge orders you out of the house until the hearing comes up, in 60 days. 

If you EVER have to be in the same place with her, have a Voice-Activated Recorder at least, a video camera is better, and a neutral third-party AND a video camera is the best. 

Since different states have different laws about what is and is not legal to record (some states say both parties have to consent, some say only one party, etc.) I suggest to people that if she surprises you and just shows up, do not say anything, go straight to the VAR or video recorder, turn it on to record, and hold it out so she can see it but you are far enough away that she can't grab it, and say: 
_*
"I am recording this conversation. I give my consent to record what happens between us. If you converse with me, I will take that as your consent to record too. If you do not want to be recorded, please walk away now and do not speak to me. If you speak to me, I will record it." *_

And by the way...NO this is not over-reacting or being paranoid. I have seen it happen time and again--the man says 'Oh she'll play dirty but she'd never do something like that' and next thing he knows, he's in jail for a couple days and needs a police escort to get his own stuff...and he's kicked out of his own home for a minimum of 2 months! AND they can just "delay" the hearing and it's longer!


----------



## Decorum

lordmayhem said:


> Sad but true. Judges will grant a Protection Order based solely on a woman's say so because of the spectre of domestic violence. This is how women take advantage of the system. Yes, the man has the chance to contest the order and have his day in court, but the damage is done, and in the meantime, the man is removed from his home. And sometimes, it can take a while to get the court date to contest the order.
> 
> This is how women like this take advantage of the system; because they are a woman, she will claim some type of abuse and it's automatically believed, again, because she is female.


Can anyone stay with you, or can you have someone there when she is around?

BTW I have a friend at work who ignored the advice given he is a passive nice guy, his wife wife did the RO/PO, filed out of state in an alimony state etc etc, and now he is fighting to regain ground he never should have lost, just dont underestimate your wife.

You are doing well, and taking the right actions (my buddy realizes it now) I can tell you know what she is capable of, you are not going to think like he did "Oh she would never do that".

I do wish you well in all of this, I am glad your son is so level headed, take care!


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## Locke.Stratos

BigTexDad said:


> Any ideas what I may need to be looking over my shoulder for?


My advice would be to make your situation known to the authorities. Tell them that you and your soon-to-be-ex-wife are headed towards divorce and she will most likely lie and "play dirty". Maybe a heads up to expect possible false claims of abuse, child endangerment or domestic violence charges or whatever. Show them the proof you and your private eye have collected. It can only help the more people that now your situation and standing.

You should carry and keep a voice activated recorder with you at all times when talking to your not-yet-ex-wife or her inane posse of associates and never be alone around her/them without a third party.

It is remarkable that through all your wife's efforts and lies that your children are able to see you for the man that you truly are and are confident and wise. I imagine that you must be beaming with pride and feel so proud of them, I would let them know.

You only feel like you do not have the energy to go through with this divorce because you've been living with an emotional vampire that has effectively drained the life and energy out of you. Now that she's moved out for some time you'll find the enery and excitement return to you.

Use that energy to enjoy your life. Keep active, go out and exercise or take upa sport. Socialize with friends and family old and new. Take care of your mind and body, eat and sleep well every day.

You are capable of so much more than you think you are. Dig deep you, you'll find yourself on the otherside of this a much happier, healthier and confident human being.


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## G.J.

Good to see already plenty of solid advice coming your way BigTexDad

To kill any type of RO* if your lawyer tells* you it will have no bearing on your financial outcome and joint custody of the kids or selling the house etc. then perhaps the best way is to leave and get an apartment as your STBXW will have to communicate only by text/phone and then you have recorded proof of anything discussed (use a phone recorder)

I was reluctant to advise this in my first post as I wondered where you wanted to be in a years time and its obviously far away from her as possible now

By going dark (as I mentioned) an added bonus to already throwing any buddying up in the trash will be to force her *maybe* to possibly talk over the phone about her...indiscretions and allows you to record

You can then at a later date when permissible expose to friends and family and show what she was doing from the 'horses mouth' so to speak


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## wmn1

Exactly what Nucking Futs said about the dreaded BS Protective order. keep everything documented, keep the var in your pocket, even get a baby cam to hide and let your attorney know about this concern. Here in Maryland, the first Protective order hearing is a few days through one week out so hold the evidence off site in case you get removed so you can produce it in court. If she does something crazy to you or threatening, BE THE FIRST TO FILE yourself. Insist your attorney expedite the separation process asap because of this.


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## wmn1

posts 166-171 are spot on !!


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## wmn1

I also applaud you for being decisive and taking bold actions. You manned up and can hold your head up high for the way you've conducted yourself


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## Q tip

180. 180. 180

Cease all discussion unless it's about D or kids welfare. Say nothing.


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## BigTexDad

Well tgat did not take long. Suddenly being nice and wanting to talk. She must have tried to use that credit card that won't work anymore. Or maybe she checked phone records to see that this time I am talking to an attorney. Not sure but she called me to apologize and say she was sorry for treating me the way she has been treating me and that she was wrong. so glad I came here to this forum to prepare me for her trying to pull this. 

I told her that I was busy and couldn't talk and that I was not wanting to discuss anything with her now. She pressed. I said "sorry, I have to go now." That is where we left it.


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## G.J.

Dark,Dark + more Dark until she's ready to tell all

Hope you have got that VAR and phone recorder to take it all down as she starts to spill the beans + keep all texts


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## Catherine602

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. 

What do you think about doing this - letting her move back in and tell her that you may want to work on R if she is sincere. Don't change the financial protection. Having her around will allow you to watch her better. Continue with the D. Get all of your eggs in that basket. Under no circumstances let her know what you are doing and guard you privacy carefully. It may take months. Use the time to consolidate your relationship with your children. Have contingencies if she guesses what you are doing. 

During that time she is likely to show her strips by reverting back to vindictive behavior. when you don't give her the keys to the money. Stay cool, remind her that she is doing R no good by her behavior.


----------



## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Well tgat did not take long. Suddenly being nice and wanting to talk. She must have tried to use that credit card that won't work anymore. Or maybe she checked phone records to see that this time I am talking to an attorney. Not sure but she called me to apologize and say she was sorry for treating me the way she has been treating me and that she was wrong. so glad I came here to this forum to prepare me for her trying to pull this.
> 
> I told her that I was busy and couldn't talk and that I was not wanting to discuss anything with her now. She pressed. I said "sorry, I have to go now." That is where we left it.


Sure hope you had a VAR rolling for all of that.

And, by the way, Texas is a one-party consent state.


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## Wazza

Catherine602 said:


> Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
> 
> What do you think about doing this - letting her move back in and tell her that you may want to work on R if she is sincere. Don't change the financial protection. Having her around will allow you to watch her better. Continue with the D. Get all of your eggs in that basket. Under no circumstances let her know what you are doing and guard you privacy carefully. It may take months. Use the time to consolidate your relationship with your children. Have contingencies if she guesses what you are doing.
> 
> During that time she is likely to show her strips by reverting back to vindictive behavior. when you don't give her the keys to the money. Stay cool, remind her that she is doing R no good by her behavior.


If he does not want reconciliation, better to move on quickly IMO. The emotional impact of your approch would be enormous and I am not sure what good it does in return.


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## lordmayhem

BigTexDad,

just curious, was she always a spoiled, self entitled princess? Or did you contribute to that by being a nice guy? Not an excuse to cheat of course, but if you do decide to R, things are going to have to change. You're going to have to change yourself and stop waiting on her hand and foot.


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## Tobyboy

Sounds like someone's been telling her to "play nice".......who would do such a thing???


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Tobyboy said:


> Sounds like someone's been telling her to "play nice".......who would do such a thing???


Yes.
Go read LMj's Thread Big Tex.


----------



## sidney2718

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes.
> Go read LMj's Thread Big Tex.


I'm not sure LMJ's a good example.

But in this case Tex said that there's been no sex at all. Clearly her sex drive isn't gone. That's one thing that has to get remedied right away. I'd not reconcile without it -- nor would anyone else.


----------



## BigTexDad

Oh sure someone has been telling her to play nice. But thanks to you fine folks, I was prepared for that and expected it. Thank yall for preparing me!

As far as the last post. Sex was not non-existent. It was there and the quality certainly made up for the lack of quantity. The woman is wild in the bedroom and the sex life I had with her is that of every man's dreams. So I really can't complain there. What I actually said was that when I uncovered one of her online chats with someone it revealed to them that she thought sex with me was "gross." And someone pointed out that she likely did not really feel that way but was trying to convince the other person that she was detaching from me. Her actions in the bedroom certainly DID NOT confirm that she thought I was gross. She seemed to enjoy the bedroom as much as I did. Just not as often---and I think that is most women. But honestly, the intensity was such that we could not have increased in frequency---it would have killed me. But that has been part of my problem in taking her back everytime---I don't think there is sex that good outside of my marriage.

And yes, I spoiled her rotten. Can't say she was always this way.


----------



## BigTexDad

Catherine602 said:


> Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
> 
> What do you think about doing this - letting her move back in and tell her that you may want to work on R if she is sincere. Don't change the financial protection. Having her around will allow you to watch her better. Continue with the D. Get all of your eggs in that basket. Under no circumstances let her know what you are doing and guard you privacy carefully. It may take months. Use the time to consolidate your relationship with your children. Have contingencies if she guesses what you are doing.
> 
> During that time she is likely to show her strips by reverting back to vindictive behavior. when you don't give her the keys to the money. Stay cool, remind her that she is doing R no good by her behavior.


Clearly you and I think a lot alike!

And I thought about it but I think she would take me up on the same deal for the same reasons. She is very conniving and would likely only want to reside together to be able to attempt to gain access to financi records like paycheck stubs etc. i think it is too much risk at this point as she knows something is different this time around. We may have gone too far for any R. And I don't think I want one anymore anyway. After reflecting on her mental abuse to me for the past few years, I don't think I can go back to that. I simply don't see how things will change. I have so much dirt on her that I really don't need anymore time with her to get ducks in a row. I have records showing she doctor shops for narcotics, has an addiction to hospitals and medical treatment (Munchausen's disorder). I already blocked all her access to all financial info (stocks, retirement info, paychecks, etc.). And she never cared enough to know what assets we actually have so she has no clue what we have from a net worth perspective. I think I have her right where I want her.


----------



## Bruticus

just read the first post in this thread, and will say this. some women just aren't wired to settle down and be with one man. your wife appears to be one of these woman. yet many of these woman, for reasons known only to them and perhaps not even to them, decide to get married and enter into a lifestyle that is designed to be monogamous. obviously, this leads to a lot of problems, like the ones you're experiencing. i doubt your wife will ever be satisfied with "just you", nor would she be satisfied with just one other dude. she's too wild.

i get that you love her, but not sure why you care so much for her happiness if she seems to care so little about yours. if i were you, i'd go "all in", play all your cards and make all the demands you have and see what happens. otherwise, you'll probably be dealing with bs like this for the rest of your life.


----------



## DadOfFour

BigTexDad said:


> Clearly you and I think a lot alike!
> 
> And I thought about it but I think she would take me up on the same deal for the same reasons. She is very conniving and would likely only want to reside together to be able to attempt to gain access to financi records like paycheck stubs etc. i think it is too much risk at this point as she knows something is different this time around. We may have gone too far for any R. And I don't think I want one anymore anyway. After reflecting on her mental abuse to me for the past few years, I don't think I can go back to that. I simply don't see how things will change. I have so much dirt on her that I really don't need anymore time with her to get ducks in a row. I have records showing she doctor shops for narcotics, has an addiction to hospitals and medical treatment (Munchausen's disorder). I already blocked all her access to all financial info (stocks, retirement info, paychecks, etc.). And she never cared enough to know what assets we actually have so she has no clue what we have from a net worth perspective. I think I have her right where I want her.


Good on you BigTex, I admire your resolve, just a short while ago all you were interested in is keeping this woman happy, no matter what happened between you, I think you are starting to realize that you owe this woman NOTHING and keeping her happy is the reason she has no respect for you, your marriage etc. All you really need to do is look after yourself and your kids as they are the ones who need to be happy, she has chosen her path and she needs to walk it alone, and if she falls then she needs to be the one to pick herself up and dust herself off. Just keep doing what you are doing and keep yourself focused and you will be alright. I wish you the best, keep us updated and good luck!!!


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> Clearly you and I think a lot alike!
> 
> And I thought about it but I think she would take me up on the same deal for the same reasons. She is very conniving and would likely only want to reside together to be able to attempt to gain access to financi records like paycheck stubs etc. i think it is too much risk at this point as she knows something is different this time around. We may have gone too far for any R. And I don't think I want one anymore anyway. After reflecting on her mental abuse to me for the past few years, I don't think I can go back to that. I simply don't see how things will change. I have so much dirt on her that I really don't need anymore time with her to get ducks in a row. I have records showing she doctor shops for narcotics, has an addiction to hospitals and medical treatment (Munchausen's disorder). I already blocked all her access to all financial info (stocks, retirement info, paychecks, etc.). And she never cared enough to know what assets we actually have so she has no clue what we have from a net worth perspective. I think I have her right where I want her.


1.So currently she's at her sisters
2.You are bunkered in the barn
3.The first salvo from her and her sister came to nothing
4.Your attorney is working on filing for legal separation ASAP

Have you acquired the VARs and phone recorders ?

When do you expect her to be served ?

Get this thread moved to the Private members section just in case (message a mod)

What do you plan to do if she has the brass balls to move back in, will you move out and if you do have you checked any repercussions with your lawyer

What about informing friends/family yet? as she will when she doesn't get what she wants

What do you plan on doing next


----------



## Catherine602

BigTexDad said:


> Clearly you and I think a lot alike!
> 
> And I thought about it but I think she would take me up on the same deal for the same reasons. She is very conniving and would likely only want to reside together to be able to attempt to gain access to financi records like paycheck stubs etc. i think it is too much risk at this point as she knows something is different this time around. We may have gone too far for any R. And I don't think I want one anymore anyway. After reflecting on her mental abuse to me for the past few years, I don't think I can go back to that. I simply don't see how things will change. I have so much dirt on her that I really don't need anymore time with her to get ducks in a row. I have records showing she doctor shops for narcotics, has an addiction to hospitals and medical treatment (Munchausen's disorder). I already blocked all her access to all financial info (stocks, retirement info, paychecks, etc.). And she never cared enough to know what assets we actually have so she has no clue what we have from a net worth perspective. I think I have her right where I want her.


You have really come a long way from an insecure, manipulated and abused spouse. Given what you have written here, I believe you are right. Inviting her back into your home would be like trying to live with a viper. 

Legally, you can't prevent her from coming back or lock her out of the house. She may gain entry when you are not at home or any time she wants. You can draft a legal separation that stipulates that she cannot come into your place but she will likely get to live in the house with the children and you will have to move out. 

You still have to secure your papers and information. Start gathering the most important papers and put in a safety deposit box. Pack the others in waterproof bins and put then in climate controlled storage. Put passwords on the computers, phones and the internet router. Or better yet, get rid of internet service so she cannot claim that you are restricting her. If se is as crafty as you say, she may set up surveillance on you. How do you plan to make sure she does place hidden camera's and VAR's around the house? 

Trust no one unless you are sure that they will not talk to others - who may talk to someone else and so on, till it gets back to your STBX. I agree you should put this in the private section. Posts are searchable and your STBX may recognize your story. 

BTW, Munchausen's syndrome by proxy may be a problem. The children may be a targets if she does not get enough attention for her own trumped up ailments. Have you given any thought as to how to arrange custody to protect them from exposure to a sick mother? Does she have a definite diagnosis by a psychiatrist?


----------



## LongWalk

Tex,

My SIL and her sister are similar to your wife and hers. My SIL never stops looking for diseases. My nephew has gotten to college before his mother could do him in. Once she imagined that his heart was bad and complained so much to specialists that they performed a cardiac catheterization on him. But there is nothing wrong with his ticker. My brother hasn't suffered mercury poisoning from consuming sea food, another of her fantastic fears. Every summer vacation my nephew and niece had to submit to some battery of diagnostic tests.

My SIL's sister is more of the same but even more difficult. They reinforce each other's unhealthy behavior. They compete to spend money. My SIL would never cheat. Her sister divorced her cheating husband acrimoniously. But both of these neurotic women have put a lot of energy in to parenting.

Munchausen syndrome is a sign of being unbalanced. Now that you seeking divorce your wife will probably temporarily forget her health complaints, going into overdrive to save her marriage. Unfortunately, she probably only wants the institution, not you. But when she realizes she can't have you, she may become obsessive about you. However, it is unlikely that she has a healthy self to offer as a partner.

Her online flirtation is the equivalent of a man getting into sex chatrooms with webcam prostitutes. Your wife needs therapy. Do you want to invest years to see her fix herself? There is no guarantee that she will succeed.

I would urge her to go to therapist.


----------



## Jasel

Bruticus said:


> i get that you love her, but not sure why you care so much for her happiness if she seems to care so little about yours. .


This.


----------



## warlock07

Cycle of abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## BigTexDad

Catherine602 said:


> You have really come a long way from an insecure, manipulated and abused spouse. Given what you have written here, I believe you are right. Inviting her back into your home would be like trying to live with a viper.
> 
> Legally, you can't prevent her from coming back or lock her out of the house. She may gain entry when you are not at home or any time she wants. You can draft a legal separation that stipulates that she cannot come into your place but she will likely get to live in the house with the children and you will have to move out.
> 
> You still have to secure your papers and information. Start gathering the most important papers and put in a safety deposit box. Pack the others in waterproof bins and put then in climate controlled storage. Put passwords on the computers, phones and the internet router. Or better yet, get rid of internet service so she cannot claim that you are restricting her. If se is as crafty as you say, she may set up surveillance on you. How do you plan to make sure she does place hidden camera's and VAR's around the house?
> 
> Trust no one unless you are sure that they will not talk to others - who may talk to someone else and so on, till it gets back to your STBX. I agree you should put this in the private section. Posts are searchable and your STBX may recognize your story.
> 
> BTW, Munchausen's syndrome by proxy may be a problem. The children may be a targets if she does not get enough attention for her own trumped up ailments. Have you given any thought as to how to arrange custody to protect them from exposure to a sick mother? Does she have a definite diagnosis by a psychiatrist?


Yeah is there a way to get this moved to the private section. After re-reading a lot of it, she would certainly recognize a lot of this.

I have not seen any evidence of Munchausen by proxy. Just straight Munchausen. She has not used the kids for any attention seeking. No definite diagnosis by a psych but her and her sister both have Munchausen, doctor shop, substance abuse. And her sister is far worse than she is. But they reinforce each other and enable each other. 

My wife told me tonight that she felt like her "life was out of control" and has been for sometime. I told her that it was. When she complains about everything about me to her sister (including how I sleep) and her sister TELLS HER what to do---she IS no longer in control of her life----her sister is. And her sister and I have never seen eye to eye. To give you a little background:
Her sister lives a very fake life and essentially would like her life to model one of the "real housewives" shows. Pretty sad to watch. She is extremely superficial, lives in the suburbs, and wants to be perceived as a "socialite". I am the complete opposite. I want to live out in the country, prefer a nice quiet evening in, and could care less about showboating for the approval of others. My wife has actually always tended to be a lot like me. And that is why we clicked. But the more she is around her sister, and the more she tells her sister about how we live (a laid back lifestyle), the more repulsed the sister is towards me and the more she feels like she needs to "rescue" her sister (my wife) from being a bunch of backwoods ******** (we live in the country). 

As far as trusting people….I have not even told my side of the family any of this. I don't trust really anyone. And that is one of the reasons I am on here talking to you guys. I want to talk to someone and need advice but don't trust anyone to talk with. If I was to talk to one of my guy friends they would likely inadvertently spill the beans to their wife who would then talk to my wife. So I am pretty tightlipped. But I am that way in general and in business. I never reveal strategy or tactics. Just the way I am programmed. I am seriously not worried about her hiding cameras or VARs as I have nothing to hide. I don't talk on the phone about this and I post this stuff from my mobile phone (I only have access to it). If she is smart enough to plant VARs then they would only hurt her case as they would only capture me being polite, respectful, and playing by the rules. And she knows that. So I doubt she would even try. But I certainly will be on my toes.


----------



## BigTexDad

warlock07 said:


> Cycle of abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Thanks! This sounds familiar. I can say there has never been any physical confrontations. We just aren't the types. But the mental abuse/games are there.


----------



## BigTexDad

LongWalk said:


> Tex,
> 
> My SIL and her sister are similar to your wife and hers. My SIL never stops looking for diseases. My nephew has gotten to college before his mother could do him in. Once she imagined that his heart was bad and complained so much to specialists that they performed a cardiac catheterization on him. But there is nothing wrong with his ticker. My brother hasn't suffered mercury poisoning from consuming sea food, another of her fantastic fears. Every summer vacation my nephew and niece had to submit to some battery of diagnostic tests.
> 
> My SIL's sister is more of the same but even more difficult. They reinforce each other's unhealthy behavior. They compete to spend money. My SIL would never cheat. Her sister divorced her cheating husband acrimoniously. But both of these neurotic women have put a lot of energy in to parenting.
> 
> Munchausen syndrome is a sign of being unbalanced. Now that you seeking divorce your wife will probably temporarily forget her health complaints, going into overdrive to save her marriage. Unfortunately, she probably only wants the institution, not you. But when she realizes she can't have you, she may become obsessive about you. However, it is unlikely that she has a healthy self to offer as a partner.
> 
> Her online flirtation is the equivalent of a man getting into sex chatrooms with webcam prostitutes. Your wife needs therapy. Do you want to invest years to see her fix herself? There is no guarantee that she will succeed.
> 
> I would urge her to go to therapist.


Wow. When I read this I thought "Oh Crap! My sister-in-law's husband is reading this!" because it sounds like my wife and her sister (my SIL)!!! 

Interestingly enough, my daughter is disabled. And my wife has never exploited her disability for attention. So I feel like the "by proxy" part is in check. But they both view hospitals as "5 star resorts" where they can go to order nurses around to wait on them hand and foot. SIL has faked seizures, fainting spells, etc. to get admitted to hospital and acquire RXs.


----------



## GusPolinski

BigTexDad said:


> Yeah is there a way to get this moved to the private section. After re-reading a lot of it, she would certainly recognize a lot of this.


Send a PM to one of the mods (Amplexor, Coffee Amour, Deejo, or FrenchFry) and ask to have the thread moved to the Private Members' Section.


----------



## LongWalk

BigTexDad said:


> Wow. When I read this I thought "Oh Crap! My sister-in-law's husband is reading this!" because it sounds like my wife and her sister (my SIL)!!!
> 
> Interestingly enough, my daughter is disabled. And my wife has never exploited her disability for attention. So I feel like the "by proxy" part is in check. But they both view hospitals as "5 star resorts" where they can go to order nurses around to wait on them hand and foot. SIL has faked seizures, fainting spells, etc. to get admitted to hospital and acquire RXs.


My SIL's sister is not by proxy. She once claimed that she suffered Lupus, which can be difficult to diagnose, but later she recovered. That usually doesn't happen with auto immune diseases. My SIL sister has an enormous house over looking a river. One year, after she had completely renovated the kitchen, she wanted a big family get together so she could show it off. There were two gigantic refrigerator/freezers. Huge range, ovens, etc. You could have put beds at both ends and lived in it.

Christmas dinner? Catered. She didn't want to mess up the kitchen.

Once she crashed a family reunion in Europe, crossing the ocean to be with her sister's MIL's relatives in another country. She just has money to burn. She invited my daughters to tea in an expensive hotel. After the tea she wanted to change hotels, first one wasn't good enough. My brother and I ended up pulling her huge suitcases through the street to another hotel, "a nicer" one. The money she paid for other one was just thrown away.

My brother and his wife are shopping for a house on the west coast for retirement. My brother just wants a modest place. SIL wants something much larger. It's the competition with her sister that drives this. I wonder if when they were kids their mother played them off, pretending to love one more than the other to jack them around.

These are not "evil" people. On the surface they do a some stuff really well. But those on receiving end of their complaints and anxieties lose years of their lives.

You are waking from a relationship that is grossly disappointing. Divorce may improve your life. Your wife may not wish you to have a peaceful parting. Keep your temper at all times. Maybe your mantra to her should be about your failures. You are not the husband to make her happy and you want to set her free. Tell her she'll find a kindred soul. 

It ain't you


----------



## BigTexDad

LongWalk said:


> BigTexDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. When I read this I thought "Oh Crap! My sister-in-law's husband is reading this!" because it sounds like my wife and her sister (my SIL)!!!
> 
> Interestingly enough, my daughter is disabled. And my wife has never exploited her disability for attention. So I feel like the "by proxy" part is in check. But they both view hospitals as "5 star resorts" where they can go to order nurses around to wait on them hand and foot. SIL has faked seizures, fainting spells, etc. to get admitted to hospital and acquire RXs.
> 
> 
> 
> My SIL's sister is not by proxy. She once claimed that she suffered Lupus, which can be difficult to diagnose, but later she recovered. That usually doesn't happen with auto immune diseases. My SIL sister has an enormous house over looking a river. One year, after she had completely renovated the kitchen, she wanted a big family get together so she could show it off. There were two gigantic refrigerator/freezers. Huge range, ovens, etc. You could have put beds at both ends and lived in it.
> 
> Christmas dinner? Catered. She didn't want to mess up the kitchen.
> 
> Once she crashed a family reunion in Europe, crossing the ocean to be with her sister's MIL's relatives in another country. She just has money to burn. She invited my daughters to tea in an expensive hotel. After the tea she wanted to change hotels, first one wasn't good enough. My brother and I ended up pulling her huge suitcases through the street to another hotel, "a nicer" one. The money she paid for other one was just thrown away.
> 
> My brother and his wife are shopping for a house on the west coast for retirement. My brother just wants a modest place. SIL wants something much larger. It's the competition with her sister that drives this. I wonder if when they were kids their mother played them off, pretending to love one more than the other to jack them around.
> 
> These are not "evil" people. On the surface they do a some stuff really well. But those on receiving end of their complaints and anxieties lose years of their lives.
> 
> You are waking from a relationship that is grossly disappointing. Divorce may improve your life. Your wife may not wish you to have a peaceful parting. Keep your temper at all times. Maybe your mantra to her should be about your failures. You are not the husband to make her happy and you want to set her free. Tell her she'll find a kindred soul.
> 
> It ain't you
Click to expand...

Well that is honestly how I feel. I do want to "set her free". It is demoralizing to me to feel like I am making someone so miserable.


----------



## Chaparral

Is she still contacting you about coming home?

I can actions on her part that might save this if she is willing.


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## Catherine602

She is more likely to "get" serious illnesses during the D than at any other time. Tex, an illness at this time would take the attention away from her cheating and getting D to what a horrible person you are abandoning a sick wife and disabled child. 

Your D may be more difficult than the average adversarial one. Without strong support for you, it will be too much for one person to manage. It's something to think about as you go forward. 

There are a few circumstances that may sway you to stay for a little longer. Your wife may realize that you will be fine without her and she distances herself from her sister and reconsiders her values. She does everything you need in order to stay married. That she respects and appreciates you. You can't take leaving off of the table, ever. You may not have been willing to consider that in the past. 

Is there anything that your wife can do to R with you? Maybe make a list of requirement for R, your eyes only. Include deal breakers. If you decide on a temporary stay, continue to get your legal position clear, set up strict protection of personal info. Firm up your relationship with your children. 

If you decide to hold off the D, she may revert back to bad behavior if she does not get therapy. But, it may be a few years down the road and your children will be older, you will be a different person and you will have a good exit plan.


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## LongWalk

There are two R scenarios: one, she breaks off contact with sister; two, from her heart she silences her sister whenever she starts trash talking you. 

The latter would require insight and therapy. The former would only be a condition about which she might find bitter and humiliating.

Actually, it could well be that if she were loyal towards you, she would discover the missing sexual desire. However, I must admit that I don't understand post menopausal female sexuality.


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> *There are two R scenarios: one, she breaks off contact with sister; two, from her heart she silences her sister whenever she starts trash talking you.
> 
> The latter would require insight and therapy. *The former would only be a condition about which she might find bitter and humiliating.
> 
> Actually, it could well be that if she were loyal towards you, she would discover the missing sexual desire. However, I must admit that I don't understand post menopausal female sexuality.


This must happen and is non negotiable.:toast:


----------



## Catherine602

She does have sex with Tex. That in itself means something. Would a woman with even a high drive have sex with a man she finds unattractive? I don't know but I have read some post my high drive woman who are so turned off by their husband that they turn off there sexual desire as well. 

The online cheating and trash talking may not mean she does not find her husband attractive or does not love him. She may be foolish and need a lot of attention. There may be hope. 

Tex's previous attempts at R were really false R. He did not hold his wife accountable and he did not make sure she atoned. He set no boundaries and he did not have leaving on the table. 

He seems to realize his mistakes. With help from this site, a good MC and a trusted friend, he might forge a different relationship, if His WW is motivated enough to do what it takes to stay married. Therapy and hard work is a given. The real possibility of losing Tex may wake her up. 

It would be difficult but may be worth it in the end. Tex read the posts of Calvin and Cantsitstill in the private section. They are in successful R if by fits and starts. It took 2 years.


----------



## Wazza

LongWalk said:


> There are two R scenarios: one, she breaks off contact with sister; two, from her heart she silences her sister whenever she starts trash talking you.


Is the first a realistic scenario? Blood is thicker than water......

I guess I figure that if the sister was able to exert such influence, either the wife is extremely weak in the first place, or she has a leaning towards the same values as the sister.

I'm not sure that you can make someone into something they are not for the sake of marriage.


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## BigTexDad

Thanks guys. I am pretty beat up emotionally. And like you guys said, I have been sacrificing my happiness for what I thought was hers. What has changed now is that I realize all my sacrifice was in vain as she was apparently never happy. And I seriously have my doubts that I can make her happy. And the trash talking with her sister and parents has apparently been going on for several years. It would always be strained at holidays even if she told her family she was wrong, exaggerating and downright lying.....and I don't think she is willing to swallow her pride enough to admit to any wrongdoing to them. I just don't see a way to reconcile here. I still love her and for my kids sake I want to see her healthy and happy as anger and bitterness will just run downhill to them. I feel like I have crossed over to a realization that I have let her destroy me and my confidence. Even our common friends started treating me like a leper a few years ago. I am realizing now that she was even trash talking me to them. There is simply too much damage done here and I just don't see a way to R at this point. The longer she stays away and the more time I have to reflect the more I realize the damage she has done. Honestly it is not even the sexting and explicit chats that bother me. Hell she could have had a PA at this point and I don't think it would bother me. What actually hurts me the most is all the trash talking she has done to the kids, her sister, and our friends. She claims she actually does say nice things about me to the kids....she ONLY tells them that I am "a good provider." Shows you where her priorities are....$$$. I told her that with her looks she could find far better "providers" than me and if that was the only good quality she saw in me then she would likely be happier with someone else. No response. 

The space has been good. I was able to go all weekend without being insulted or feeling worthless. I guess maybe the space as made me realize there is simply too much damage done. I need to recover my confidence before it affects my work and career anymore than it has. And she certainly only harms it. So no....no R possible at this point.


----------



## BigTexDad

Wazza said:


> LongWalk said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two R scenarios: one, she breaks off contact with sister; two, from her heart she silences her sister whenever she starts trash talking you.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the first a realistic scenario? Blood is thicker than water......
> 
> I guess I figure that if the sister was able to exert such influence, either the wife is extremely weak in the first place, or she has a leaning towards the same values as the sister.
> 
> I'm not sure that you can make someone into something they are not for the sake of marriage.
Click to expand...

Not possible. And I would never want or expect her to abandon her family. But I would have liked her to have some boundaries in what she tells them. Her sister even had the gall to ask me about a specific aspect of our sex life that only she and I know about! It was completely inappropriate and embarassing.

Oh, and another funny thing she told her ENTIRE family....and this is actually funny....one night last week, she walked out of the bedroom while I was on this forum. I did not want to get "caught" seeking advice so I turned the computer real fast so she could not see that I was on TAM. She ran and told her family that she walked out and caught me looking at porn. Of course I couldn't tell her Inwas seeking help with our marriage so I actually played along and just said "well why would any married man ever want to look at porn? Guilty comscience?" Ultimately I will tell her what I was actually doing so she can see the irony. She looks for anything she can latch onto to belittle and insult me.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

BigTexDad said:


> Thanks guys. I am pretty beat up emotionally. And like you guys said, I have been sacrificing my happiness for what I thought was hers. What has changed now is that I realize all my sacrifice was in vain as she was apparently never happy. And I seriously have my doubts that I can make her happy. And the trash talking with her sister and parents has apparently been going on for several years. It would always be strained at holidays even if she told her family she was wrong, exaggerating and downright lying.....and I don't think she is willing to swallow her pride enough to admit to any wrongdoing to them. I just don't see a way to reconcile here. I still love her and for my kids sake I want to see her healthy and happy as anger and bitterness will just run downhill to them. I feel like I have crossed over to a realization that I have let her destroy me and my confidence. Even our common friends started treating me like a leper a few years ago. I am realizing now that she was even trash talking me to them. There is simply too much damage done here and I just don't see a way to R at this point. The longer she stays away and the more time I have to reflect the more I realize the damage she has done. Honestly it is not even the sexting and explicit chats that bother me. Hell she could have had a PA at this point and I don't think it would bother me. What actually hurts me the most is all the trash talking she has done to the kids, her sister, and our friends. She claims she actually does say nice things about me to the kids....she ONLY tells them that I am "a good provider." Shows you where her priorities are....$$$. I told her that with her looks she could find far better "providers" than me and if that was the only good quality she saw in me then she would likely be happier with someone else. No response.
> 
> The space has been good. I was able to go all weekend without being insulted or feeling worthless. I guess maybe the space as made me realize there is simply too much damage done. I need to recover my confidence before it affects my work and career anymore than it has. And she certainly only harms it. So no....no R possible at this point.



Love is good at clouding our vision. Your simply detaching, and it is just bringing you the needed clarity. Now that you have distance yourself, you can take a more objective view. With distance, your logic kicks in, and you make less decisions from your feelings.


----------



## Wazza

This is not a pro-reconciliation argument, but it might read like one. I am simply offering some ideas.

The first is, that a lot of times the guy sees providing materially for the girl as proving his love, and it's not what the girl wanted. I arguably made that same mistake. Lots of guys clearly did. So maybe at some stage discussing what she REALLY wants would be useful. (Even assuming you divorce, it might help you process things for the next relationship).

Secondly, my in-laws suck moose balls. They are actually decent people but we just don't get on. And part of it is that I am an outsider. I don't have equal status with them, never will. But that is a reason to manage my relationship with my in-laws rather than to end the marriage.

At various times my wife has trash-talked me and it hurts. Still causes problems. I can recognise that a degree of it is venting. There is a limit to how much that helps. I'm not sure that I would be that upset if the worst my wife did was accuse me of looking at porn online.


----------



## anchorwatch

It took you a good while to lose those blinders Big Tex. You get it now. 

She blames you for her situation in life. Contrary to what she and her sister think, she is the one responsible for her happiness. Not you. Not anyone else. 



Here... No More Mr. Nice Guy 

Best


----------



## LongWalk

Sometimes sisters will be closer than a husband can ever be at some level. That said, a woman who tells her sister that she has to save her marriage by respecting her husband can bring it off if she has the core strength. They don't have to become enemies because they are never contemplate sacrificing their relationship. The sister who exerts the bad influence can be forced to quit her trash talking if your wife stands up to her.

It may improve the sister to have this change in her life. Your ability to stand up for yourself and lead will be a key.


----------



## G.J.

G.J. said:


> 1.So currently she's at her sisters
> 2.You are bunkered in the barn
> 3.The first salvo from her and her sister came to nothing
> 4.Your attorney is working on filing for legal separation ASAP
> 
> Have you acquired the VARs and phone recorders ?
> 
> When do you expect her to be served ?
> 
> Get this thread moved to the Private members section just in case (message a mod)
> 
> What do you plan to do if she has the brass balls to move back in, will you move out and if you do have you checked any repercussions with your lawyer
> 
> You able to think now if she moves back in you will cave eventually I think
> 
> What about informing friends/family yet? as she will when she doesn't get what she wants
> 
> What do you plan on doing next


Don't know if you missed this the other day in the turmoil but you really need to 

Get this thread moved to the *Private members section* just in case (message a mod)
AND
What do you plan to do if she has the brass balls to *move back in*, will you move out and if you do have you checked any repercussions with your lawyer

If she moves back in you may cave eventually


----------



## Chaparral

If I remember correctly, you make a lot more money than your sister in law's husband. I'm guessing that is why she bad mouths you to your wife. She's jealous and she wants to make your wife look down on you. She throws you under the bus to make herself look luckier than your wife.

Tell your wife her sister wins, now your wife's income will be cut down bellow her sister's and she won't be able to afford as nice a house anymore. Ask her if her online boyfriends are going to buy her a big house?

Have you told her you have to sell the house you're building? I'll bet your sister in law is happy about that.


----------



## BigTexDad

Chaparral said:


> If I remember correctly, you make a lot more money than your sister in law's husband. I'm guessing that is why she bad mouths you to your wife. She's jealous and she wants to make your wife look down on you. She throws you under the bus to make herself look luckier than your wife.
> 
> Tell your wife her sister wins, now your wife's income will be cut down bellow her sister's and she won't be able to afford as nice a house anymore. Ask her if her online boyfriends are going to buy her a big house?
> 
> Have you told her you have to sell the house you're building? I'll bet your sister in law is happy about that.


I kind of felt the same way. Her sister always assumed I made much less than I did. Then when we started building the new house she realized I earned more than she thought. Then she started telling my wife that I am controlling and that I try to control her with limiting her money. My wife came home from a day with her one day and lectured me on how I don't give her enough to spend each month. I reminded her that we lived well below our means for years in order to be able to live debt free. I also asked her how much college education have they put back for their kids (considering I already have that taken care of and my oldest is only 15). Her sister is clearly jealous of our financial situation.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Big-Tex-Dad

Get a plan and make up your mind that your in-laws and your wife are not going to take up any of your thoughts, and time. Make a plan and use all of your time and efforts to build yourself up and get even closer to your children. That will be all that matters in the future. Get the best lawyer you can afford and get the best deal for you in your divorce.

It will be difficult for you to put your wife and in-laws out of your life but keeping them in your life and thoughts is a waste of time and will slow your progress down. Mind over emotions!


----------



## BigTexDad

Well, it has been a week since I dropped the bomb. And although it has been very difficult, I have ignored and avoided her as much as you can while still parenting two kids. Now she wants reconciliation. And seems to be willing to "prove it". I know, I know. Don't fall for it. No worries. I had mentally prepared for this. And I ain't going to lie, she is hard to resist. As much as I am pissed off at her and as much as she has put me through, I am still in love with her, care for her, and the physical attraction drives me nuts. Although she does seem very sincere, I have been burned one too many times. And interestingly enough, I decided to let her back in Tuesday night. She wanted to sit up all night and talk. She cried a lot, apologized and said she has treated me horribly. I just sat there and stared. It was like she wanted to see if I would react. I just agreed and said "yep". She opened up her phone and said I could search her phone and computer and have "all access". Then yesterday morning, all passwords were changed. I did not confront her about the changing passwords and we are still separated. But it was a test of sorts. The sudden "change in heart" when it comes to passwords indicates to me that someone must have texted her or sent her a game request that she did not want me to see. I am not going to tell her that I am pursuing the divorce. I am just going to let her think that we are working towards a R. And I am doing so--- more as a strategy…keep your friends close and your enemies closer (although I don't like thinking of her as an enemy). I am going to let her think that I did not try to access the accounts with her passwords and pretend like I don't care and just let her think we have a lot of work to do. I would love to be with this woman. But too much damage and too little trust. I just don't think I can do it. But it is so "textbook" how this is progressing. Detaching the emotions is much harder than I thought it would be. Investing in the stock market is similar and I have experience in that so I just keep telling myself she is a stock that may look really attractive but I just don't want to lose anymore money investing in it.


----------



## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> she is a stock that may look really attractive but I just don't want to lose anymore money investing in it.


Now that is a classic one liner

Just keep up the nodding yes and thinking straight routine

:smthumbup:


----------



## Catherine602

The attraction and love you feel along with the waring emotions is normal. The attraction and love may win out again but don't be upset with yourself for that and don't stop posting. 

It may take one more go around to dampen your love and attraction for good. I hope you can D her this time. The change in passwords says it all. She's convinced she has you fooled.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Tex
When you boil it all down this is what you have:

*A wife that will betray you and her children so that she can get a high of sending men nude photos
Cheats on you several times and then blames you for her cheating
A wife that does not think you have one good quality
A wife that you do not trust
A wife that talks trash about you to your children (this one should send you ballistic)
A wife that insults you and makes you feel worthless and is destroying your self esteem
A wife that is jeopardizing your ability to do your job that could destroy you financially.*

You say that you love her but I wonder how much that love is based on the foundations of love of trust and admiration and how much is based on emotional desperation due to her treating your like a worthless man? I am not trying to make you feel bad but you need help to get stronger because your wife has run you down for YEARS! Your wife may have problems that add to her treatment of you and your family but those problems in NO WAY are good enough excuses for her actions these last several years.

I would not doubt that your wife gets real emotional and tells you 100 ways how sorry she is and she may even mean it. In situations like yours you should NEVER base your decisions on emotions and talks. *The only thing that will tell you the truth is her ACTIONS for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME. For your sake and your children’s sake I hope that you take actions so that you are no longer being emotionally brutalized and having your self-esteem raped*.




> By TEX
> Sadly, I do think my wife will "wake up" and realize how bad she screwed up but only after I leave her.


I would not be surprised; sometimes a Divorce will wake them up. Rather than take any time thinking about a possible future R, at this time I would recommend that you first take care of the severe critical problem of you being destroyed emotionally and having your children told all that crap about you. In other words you go 100% in building yourself up, doing what will help you, and your children; these are the only things that you should be 100% concentrated on. You may lose some financial assets in a D but if you allow this to keep going on you will be completely destroyed. *Take the right actions and you will be a LOT better in the future. You have a lot going for you except for the brutal treatment your wife has been giving you.*


----------



## BobSimmons

The last vestige of control for her might be throwing you the sex. Be wary, she'll be working overtime to try maintain the life she knows.

As much as you have detached, you are still in love and she knows it and will use it against you. Unless you can disconnect the heart from the act, don't fall for it. 

Keep your long term goals in focus.


----------



## Dogbert

No respect = No marriage


----------



## Wazza

BigTexDad said:


> I am just going to let her think that we are working towards a R. And I am doing so--- more as a strategy…keep your friends close and your enemies closer (although I don't like thinking of her as an enemy). <snip> Detaching the emotions is much harder than I thought it would be.


If you are certain about divorce, what do you hope to gain by prolonging things?


----------



## ButtPunch

Good Job Big Tex. Her words are meaningless. Her tears are meaningless. Her changing her password is not. HER ACTIONS. I am so glad that you are able to see this, where a lot of BS are not.


----------



## LongWalk

Let her sister tell her that she has a right to privacy. But that curtain has a price — her marriage. She chose.


----------



## Suspecting2014

BigTexDad said:


> Not possible. And I would never want or expect her to abandon her family. But I would have liked her to have some boundaries in what she tells them. Her sister even had the gall to ask me about a specific aspect of our sex life that only she and I know about! It was completely inappropriate and embarassing.
> 
> Oh, *and another funny thing she told her ENTIRE family...*.and this is actually funny....one night last week, she walked out of the bedroom while I was on this forum. I did not want to get "caught" seeking advice so I turned the computer real fast so she could not see that I was on TAM. She ran and told her family that she walked out and caught me looking at porn. Of course I couldn't tell her Inwas seeking help with our marriage so I actually played along and just said "well why would any married man ever want to look at porn? Guilty comscience?" Ultimately I will tell her what I was actually doing so she can see the irony. She looks for anything she can latch onto to belittle and insult me.


Not funny but sad...

I am really glad you are getting D.

Cut all your common friends as they are not yours at all, and they dont know you.


----------



## Suspecting2014

BigTexDad said:


> Well, it has been a week since I dropped the bomb. And although it has been very difficult, I have ignored and avoided her as much as you can while still parenting two kids. Now she wants reconciliation. *And seems to be willing to "prove it"*. I know, I know. Don't fall for it. No worries. I had mentally prepared for this. And I ain't going to lie, she is hard to resist. As much as I am pissed off at her and as much as she has put me through, I am still in love with her, care for her, and the physical attraction drives me nuts. Although she does seem very sincere, I have been burned one too many times. And interestingly enough, I decided to let her back in Tuesday night. She wanted to sit up all night and talk. *She cried a lot, apologized and said she has treated me horribly*. I just sat there and stared. It was like she wanted to see if I would react. I just agreed and said "yep". She opened up her phone and said I could search her phone and computer and have "all access". Then yesterday morning, all passwords were changed. I did not confront her about the changing passwords and we are still separated. But it was a test of sorts. The sudden "change in heart" when it comes to passwords indicates to me that someone must have texted her or sent her a game request that she did not want me to see. I am not going to tell her that I am pursuing the divorce. I am just going to let her think that we are working towards a R. And I am doing so--- more as a strategy…keep your friends close and your enemies closer (although I don't like thinking of her as an enemy). I am going to let her think that I did not try to access the accounts with her passwords and pretend like I don't care and just let her think we have a lot of work to do. I would love to be with this woman. But too much damage and too little trust. I just don't think I can do it. But it is so "textbook" how this is progressing. Detaching the emotions is much harder than I thought it would be. Investing in the stock market is similar and I have experience in that so I just keep telling myself she is a stock that may look really attractive but I just don't want to lose anymore money investing in it.


Ask her to clean your good name starting with your kids following your common frieds and then her family.

I bet she wont!! But at least will show your kids and common friends who she really is.

Even if she does once being served she will badmouth you again but her credibility will be lower than the grownd.


----------



## carmen ohio

BigTexDad said:


> . . . I am not going to tell her that I am pursuing the divorce. I am just going to let her think that we are working towards a R. And I am doing so--- more as a strategy…keep your friends close and your enemies closer (although I don't like thinking of her as an enemy). I am going to let her think that I did not try to access the accounts with her passwords and pretend like I don't care and just let her think we have a lot of work to do. I would love to be with this woman. But too much damage and too little trust. I just don't think I can do it. But it is so "textbook" how this is progressing. Detaching the emotions is much harder than I thought it would be. Investing in the stock market is similar and I have experience in that so I just keep telling myself she is a stock that may look really attractive but I just don't want to lose anymore money investing in it.





Wazza said:


> If you are certain about divorce, what do you hope to gain by prolonging things?


So, BTD, are you pursuing divorce (albeit, not disclosing to your WW yet) or are you delaying (as Wazza understands)?

If the latter, just bear in mind that, the longer you wait, the less is likely to be your resolve and the greater will be the pressure from your family to reconcile.


----------



## Wazza

carmen ohio said:


> So, BTD, are you pursuing divorce (albeit, not disclosing to your WW yet) or are you delaying (as Wazza understands)?
> 
> If the latter, just bear in mind that, the longer you wait, the less is likely to be your resolve and the greater will be the pressure from your family to reconcile.


I'm not assuming Big Tex is delaying the divorce. But he's talking about this charade that reconciliation is an option, and I am asking why? I can only see it being a very painful situation all round, and I don't willingly endure or inflict pain without a reason.

If the decision is genuinely made, and your ducks lines up, why not communicate it and let everyone move forward based on truth?


----------



## altawa

Alli3fire said:


> I feel like if you are still in love with your wife and she wants to reconcile, this site is not going to give you the advice to get you there. I'm not saying that some of it is not excellent advice should you wish to move forward and get over this, but it sounds like you may still want to give this a chance. I can tell you that I went through a difficult mid-life crisis and I was a hormonal mess. I sexted and got caught. We almost divorced. I am so very thankful every day that my husband was able to forgive me and we were able to keep us and our family together. It did not happen over night and we did separate for 2 months but ultimately it took that to realize what I almost lost and what a complete **** I had been. He was able to admit some of *his own faults that led me to what I did (no I'm not saying it was his fault but there were some reasons that led me to the sexting).* In any case, had he taken some of hard ball tactic advice that is sometimes given here, we would not still be together now. I feel at times that we are more in love now than before this happened as we talk about everything and we are intimate much more often and also I don't take him for granted and I don't feel that he takes me for granted as I think we both did before to some degree. I am so happy that we were able to work through this and every time I see his smiling face walk through the door I think how lucky I am that he forgave me and was willng to work thru his own issues and mine with me. I wish you the best and I do think some of this advice is good in some situations but where is the willingness to work thru the difficult times? What about the love you still have for your wife and she for you? Can that be salvaged while you are now being dishonest with her as she was with you or with some of these hard ball tactics? Something to think about imo.


You say you are not blaming him, but that seems to be exactly what you are doing. Can't have it both ways. He didn't force you to send the messages, did he?


----------



## GusPolinski

Alli3fire said:


> I feel like if you are still in love with your wife and she wants to reconcile, this site is not going to give you the advice to get you there. I'm not saying that some of it is not excellent advice should you wish to move forward and get over this, but it sounds like you may still want to give this a chance. I can tell you that I went through a difficult mid-life crisis and I was a hormonal mess. I sexted and got caught. We almost divorced. I am so very thankful every day that my husband was able to forgive me and we were able to keep us and our family together. It did not happen over night and we did separate for 2 months but ultimately it took that to realize what I almost lost and what a complete **** I had been. He was able to admit some of his own faults that led me to what I did (no I'm not saying it was his fault but there were some reasons that led me to the sexting). In any case, had he taken some of hard ball tactic advice that is sometimes given here, we would not still be together now. I feel at times that we are more in love now than before this happened as we talk about everything and we are intimate much more often and also I don't take him for granted and I don't feel that he takes me for granted as I think we both did before to some degree. I am so happy that we were able to work through this and every time I see his smiling face walk through the door I think how lucky I am that he forgave me and was willng to work thru his own issues and mine with me. I wish you the best and I do think some of this advice is good in some situations but where is the willingness to work thru the difficult times? What about the love you still have for your wife and she for you? Can that be salvaged while you are now being dishonest with her as she was with you or with some of these hard ball tactics? Something to think about imo.


Have you told him yet who it was that you were sexting?


----------



## GusPolinski

Alli3fire said:


> No, Gus, I haven't. We've left that soccer club.


Has he just not asked at all? Or did you lie when he did ask...?

Have you considered that he might find out on his own at some point?

Please understand that I don't ask these questions to be rude or offensive.

Something else that you should consider is that _he cannot truly forgiven you *unless he knows precisely what it is that he's being asked to forgive.*_ Additionally, if OM is someone close to him (can't remember from your deleted thread), then he needs to confess and make amends as well.


----------



## GusPolinski

Alli3fire said:


> I lied because I said it was no-one that he knew when in fact it was. He didn't press the issue and at this point he says he wants to move on and put this behind us. Yes, I have a horrible horrible fear of him finding out. Perhaps I will have the strenght to tell him at some point but I don't now.


It will be much, much worse if he finds out on his own. And even worse should OM happen to decide to confess it himself. And yet even worse should OM's wife find out (if applicable, that is) and tell your husband.

Are either of you still in contact w/ OM these days?


----------



## altawa

so, you are a cheater who is blameshifting (that is what you are doing, regardless if you see it or not.....), and you are still lying about it.

Wonderful.


----------



## GusPolinski

Alli3fire said:


> It is not someone close to him at all...just someone he knows but not well. He's forgiven me for sexting but you're right not forgiven me for sexting with ...


Please consider telling him the truth. And, honestly, you won't be able to truly get past it yourself until you clear that hurdle.


----------



## altawa

Alli3fire said:


> Everything is not black and white altawa. I made some mistakes and I'm happy that my husband and I are still together. I love him and we've been together for 20 years. We have been thru a tremendous amount (deaths of our parents and almost losing a child multiple times) and we still laugh and have fun and this was just one other obstacle we've been thru. I don't need your approval or need you to like me. I wanted to let OP know my thoughts and I don't really care how you view me. Some of it I deserve and some I don't and I'm already very hard on myself about what I've done so anything you throw at me isn't really going to matter.


Whatever you have to tell yourself. 'It's not your husbands fault you cheated, except for the parts where it was his fault, but you are not blameshifting' and 'its ok to lie to my husband about the OM when he asks, but I really want to do anything to make it work'.

And, yes, you deserve all of it.


----------



## altawa

Alli3fire said:


> I do deserve it. I'm going to have a long happy married life and everyday I do everything I can to ensure my husband is happy and I am the best wife I can be to him. I know what I almost lost and I will never go back down that road. My choices are not yours and you don't live in my shoes so back off.


Why should I back off.......failing to see the problem with pointing out the flaws you so blatantly post on here, and fail to acknowledge.

I hate blameshifting cheaters. He didnt make you cheat, but you still try to put some of the blame on him. Thats BS. I hate liars. You admitted less than 20 minutes ago that you have continued to lie to your BS about the OM when asked about it. 

Yeah, you are sure the model of a WW that wants to 'be the best wife she can be'


----------



## GusPolinski

altawa said:


> Why should I back off.......failing to see the problem with pointing out the flaws you so blatantly post on here, and fail to acknowledge.
> 
> I hate blameshifting cheaters. He didnt make you cheat, but you still try to put some of the blame on him. Thats BS. I hate liars. You admitted less than 20 minutes ago that you have continued to lie to your BS about the OM when asked about it.
> 
> Yeah, you are sure the model of a WW that wants to 'be the best wife she can be'


Dude, you need to back off. She may have wronged her husband, but she didn't wrong _you_.

Let's agree that at least some (maybe even _much_) of what she posted in response to OP's current situation is a load of bull and end the threadjack.


----------



## altawa

GusPolinski said:


> Dude, you need to back off. She may have wronged her husband, but she didn't wrong _you_.
> 
> Let's agree that at least some (maybe even _much_) of what she posted in response to OP's current situation is a load of bull and end the threadjack.


I love the irony of a blameshifting cheater coming in here and discounting the advice offered to somebody with the same problem she created within her own marriage. She says the advice is terrible for R, but is still lying to her husband.

You can't write better irony than that.


----------



## GusPolinski

altawa said:


> I love the irony of a blameshifting cheater coming in here and discounting the advice offered to somebody with the same problem she created within her own marriage. She says the advice is terrible for R, but is still lying to her husband.
> 
> You can't write better irony than that.


Much of the advice given here is indeed "terrible" for reconciliation. But one size _doesn't_ fit all, and _reconciliation isn't the point of said advice._

For example, the point of the 180 is NOT to bring a wayward spouse back into his or her marriage (even though that is often the result); _the point of the 180 is that *it will help the betrayed spouse to detach.*_


----------



## altawa

GusPolinski said:


> Much of the advice given here is indeed "terrible" for reconciliation. But one size _doesn't_ fit all, and _reconciliation isn't the point of said advice._
> 
> For example, the point of the 180 is NOT to bring a wayward spouse back into his or her marriage (even though that is often the result); _the point of the 180 is that *it will help the betrayed spouse to detach.*_


However, in my reading of this thread, he has been offered advice covering the spectrum so that he has options. So for her to dismiss it, especially considering her background, makes my point stand.

Regardless, she still isnt owning all the way up for her past, big shock (not).


----------



## Wazza

altawa said:


> However, in my reading of this thread, he has been offered advice covering the spectrum so that he has options. So for her to dismiss it, especially considering her background, makes my point stand.
> 
> Regardless, she still isnt owning all the way up for her past, big shock (not).


Trying to get the thread back on track.....

I haven't actually seen much advice pro reconciliation here. And fwiw, I generally find TAM not very pro reconciliation. If I had followed the advice given here my marriage would probably have ended.

But OP has said he doesn't want to reconcile. A reasonable decision based on the information provided. Not the only option but its his choice.


----------



## GusPolinski

Wazza said:


> Trying to get the thread back on track.....
> 
> I haven't actually seen much advice pro reconciliation here. And fwiw, I generally find TAM not very pro reconciliation. If I had followed the advice given here my marriage would probably have ended.
> 
> *But OP has said he doesn't want to reconcile. A reasonable decision based on the information provided. Not the only option but its his choice.*


Exactly. Why bother watering a lawn that's devoid of grass?


----------



## KingwoodKev

Alli3fire said:


> Oh **** off. I never met with him, I never had sex with him, I sexted on my phone. 20 years together is not erased for this and the only thing I've not been forthcoming about is the who. I'm sure everything you've done for your entire life is perfect. *******


You're still living lies though. You're not redeemed. You'd have to be 100% honest to hubby because he deserves that. You'd also have to admit what you are (cheater), and humble yourself to the one you betrayed....and I mean _really _humble yourself.


----------



## tom67

Wazza said:


> Trying to get the thread back on track.....
> 
> I haven't actually seen much advice pro reconciliation here. And fwiw, I generally find TAM not very pro reconciliation. If I had followed the advice given here my marriage would probably have ended.
> 
> But OP has said he doesn't want to reconcile. A reasonable decision based on the information provided. Not the only option but its his choice.


Yes let's end the hijack and she can start her own thread I appreciate her point of view but come on.


----------



## KingwoodKev

BigTexDad said:


> Well, it has been a week since I dropped the bomb. And although it has been very difficult, I have ignored and avoided her as much as you can while still parenting two kids. Now she wants reconciliation. And seems to be willing to "prove it". I know, I know. Don't fall for it. No worries. I had mentally prepared for this. And I ain't going to lie, she is hard to resist. As much as I am pissed off at her and as much as she has put me through, I am still in love with her, care for her, and the physical attraction drives me nuts. Although she does seem very sincere, I have been burned one too many times. And interestingly enough, I decided to let her back in Tuesday night. She wanted to sit up all night and talk. She cried a lot, apologized and said she has treated me horribly. I just sat there and stared. It was like she wanted to see if I would react. I just agreed and said "yep". She opened up her phone and said I could search her phone and computer and have "all access". Then yesterday morning, all passwords were changed. I did not confront her about the changing passwords and we are still separated. But it was a test of sorts. The sudden "change in heart" when it comes to passwords indicates to me that someone must have texted her or sent her a game request that she did not want me to see. I am not going to tell her that I am pursuing the divorce. I am just going to let her think that we are working towards a R. And I am doing so--- more as a strategy…keep your friends close and your enemies closer (although I don't like thinking of her as an enemy). I am going to let her think that I did not try to access the accounts with her passwords and pretend like I don't care and just let her think we have a lot of work to do. I would love to be with this woman. But too much damage and too little trust. I just don't think I can do it. But it is so "textbook" how this is progressing. Detaching the emotions is much harder than I thought it would be. Investing in the stock market is similar and I have experience in that so I just keep telling myself she is a stock that may look really attractive but I just don't want to lose anymore money investing in it.


If you have any chance of making this work she has to:
1. Tell you everything and I mean 100% of every detail.
2. Admit what she is. A cheater.
3. Humble herself to you. Basically throw herself at your mercy and know that any attempt at reconciliation is 100% on your terms.
4. She has forever forfeited all rights to privacy. Maybe she rates privacy years and years from now if, and only if, she has truly followed the other steps.


----------



## tom67

KingwoodKev said:


> If you have any chance of making this work she has to:
> 1. Tell you everything and I mean 100% of every detail.
> 2. Admit what she is. A cheater.
> 3. Humble herself to you. Basically throw herself at your mercy and know that any attempt at reconciliation is 100% on your terms.
> 4. She has forever forfeited all rights to privacy. Maybe she rates privacy years and years from now if, and only if, she has truly followed the other steps.


Totally agree with this but on the plus side for him he resides in a state where he actually won't have to pay lifetime alimony and get screwed in other ways from what I have researched and from other threads.
They have kids but the pw change at least for me I'M DONE!!!


----------



## KingwoodKev

tom67 said:


> Totally agree with this but on the plus side for him he resides in a state where he actually won't have to pay lifetime alimony and get screwed in other ways from what I have researched and from other threads.
> They have kids but the pw change at least for me I'M DONE!!!


I hear you man. Any missteps whatsoever and the deal's off. Password change = back to the same ole filthy lying ways. I hate cheaters more than I hate terrorists. At least with terrorists you know where you stand.


----------



## tom67

KingwoodKev said:


> I hear you man. Any missteps whatsoever and the deal's off. Password change = back to the same ole filthy lying ways. I hate cheaters more than I hate terrorists. At least with terrorists you know where you stand.


:iagree::iagree:
You guys don't have fault divorces like NC and SC but it's pretty fair aside.
I have a cool gf now who knows I don't want to marry in the near future but who knows.


----------



## GusPolinski

Alli3fire said:


> I feel like if you are still in love with your wife and she wants to reconcile, this site is not going to give you the advice to get you there.


Two things...

1) The divorce/reconcile decision is not OP's WW's decision to make. It's OP's decision, and his alone.

2) If OP wants to reconcile, then he'll get the advice that will aid him in doing so from at least _some_ of the posters here.

Personally, given everything that OP has provided, I think he'd be a fool to opt for reconciliation. But, if that's what he wants, then I'll advise him in that regard. And, if I find that I can't do that in a constructive manner, I'll do my best to refrain from contributing to his thread.



Alli3fire said:


> I'm not saying that some of it is not excellent advice should you wish to move forward and get over this, but it sounds like you may still want to give this a chance. I can tell you that I went through a difficult mid-life crisis and I was a hormonal mess. I sexted and got caught. We almost divorced. I am so very thankful every day that my husband was able to forgive me and we were able to keep us and our family together. It did not happen over night and we did separate for 2 months but ultimately it took that to realize what I almost lost and what a complete **** I had been. He was able to admit some of his own faults that led me to what I did (no I'm not saying it was his fault but there were some reasons that led me to the sexting). *In any case, had he taken some of hard ball tactic advice that is sometimes given here, we would not still be together now.*


Eh... that sort of depends on whether or not he'd clearly stated what he'd wanted to do.

It's true that many men don't divorce over a single EA. But multiple EA's over the course of several years? And then throw in all of the emotional abuse, the constant bashing and trashing that she's been doing to friends and family (including their own children!), AND her participation in this toxic relationship w/ her sister...?

NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT F*CKING MIND would advise a betrayed spouse to opt for reconciliation w/ a wayward that has not only _repeatedly_ shown a penchant for obtaining emotional and/or sexual fulfillment outside of their marriage, but also the *immense* level of disrespect described above.



Alli3fire said:


> I feel at times that we are more in love now than before this happened as *we talk about everything* and we are intimate much more often and also I don't take him for granted and I don't feel that he takes me for granted as I think we both did before to some degree. I am so happy that we were able to work through this and every time I see his smiling face walk through the door I think how lucky I am that he forgave me and was willng to work thru his own issues and mine with me.


Well... not _everything_. Right?

Either way, I AM happy for you. Seriously. It's always good to hear a positive reconciliation story.

But you need to clear that last hurdle. If you don't, it will always be there, just waiting to trip up your reconciliation.



Alli3fire said:


> I wish you the best and I do think some of this advice is good in some situations but where is the willingness to work thru the difficult times? What about the love you still have for your wife and she for you? Can that be salvaged while you are now being dishonest with her as she was with you or with some of these hard ball tactics? Something to think about imo.


Many of the BS's here -- BH's in particular -- tend to project their own issues onto those of others. Many regret that they didn't take a firmer stance w/ their own WS's upon discovering or being confronted with their spouses' affairs, which might have afforded them the opportunity to either leave or reconcile their marriages w/ at least a bit more of their dignity and self-respect intact. Conversely, many (though clearly not _as_ many) regret that they didn't take a more measured approach w/ their WS's, which might have allowed them to salvage their marriages. Hell, many regret having discovered the affairs at all.

*But many FWS's project as well.* And, just as every WS is *not* an incubus or succubus summoned directly from the fiery pits of Hell, not every WS is possessed of the constitution (or even presence of mind) required to acknowledge his or her transgressions, the grace to apologize for them, and/or the patience and compassion required to then work toward making amends for them.

And seriously... how much of OP's latest update did you read?

"Honey, here are all of my device, e-mail, and social media passwords. I want you to have them so that you can always be assured that I'll never again engage in any of this awful, hurtful, adulterous behavior."

Passwords were changed the very next morning.

:scratchhead:


----------



## Catherine602

Alli3fire said:


> I'm not blaming him. It is my own fault for what I did but there were some things that he did that led me down that path, in addition to my own bad decisions.


Your point of view is really valuable. It does not seem that Tex will find it easy to give up on his marriage at present. Perhaps some advice from the other side will help him. Your situation seems different than Tex's.

Can you read the posts over again and give some thought to how your cheating relates to Tex's wife's cheating? She is a serial cheater and she is still being deceptive. He has given her several chances to be loved by him. Did you cheat repeatedly and reject your husbands love again and again? 

Based on these facts, the advice Tex is getting is based on his specific situation. He has been hurt repeatedly. He may be better off D, healing and finding love from a woman who is looking to love a man just like him. 

His children is a big factor and he needs to carefully tend his relationship with them. Seeing their father demonized cannot be good for them. His wife's mental state is also a factor. A child centered D that protects them is essential

Sometimes it is appropriate to do a surgical cut on a relationship that seems dead. How many times should he and his children be hurt?


----------



## KingwoodKev

Catherine602 said:


> Your point of view is really valuable. It does not seem that Tex will find it easy to give up on his marriage at present. Perhaps some advice from the other side will help him. Your situation seems different than Tex's.
> 
> Can you read the posts over again and give some thought to how your cheating relates to Tex's wife's cheating? She is a serial cheater and she is still being deceptive. He has given her several chances to be loved by him. Did you cheat repeatedly and reject your husbands love again and again?
> 
> Based on these facts, the advice Tex is getting is based on his specific situation. He has been hurt repeatedly. He may be better off D, healing and finding love from a woman who is looking to love a man just like him.
> 
> His children is a big factor and he needs to carefully tend his relationship with them. Seeing their father demonized cannot be good for them. His wife's mental state is also a factor. A child centered D that protects them is essential
> 
> Sometimes it is appropriate to do a surgical cut on a relationship that seems dead. How many times should he and his children be hurt?


Actually the poster you're responding to admits she's still living a lie. She was not forthcoming about who the affair was with and still isn't. Living on borrowed time and may not be willing to admit it.


----------



## Catherine602

OoooH forget what I said Tex. This shows how deceptive cheaters can be. Read Alli3fires posts. This may be your life with your unrepentant wife. Consider that loving your wife will not be enough.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Two things...
> 
> 1) The divorce/reconcile decision is not OP's WW's decision to make. It's OP's decision, and his alone.
> 
> 2) If OP wants to reconcile, then he'll get the advice that will aid him in doing so from at least _some_ of the posters here.
> 
> Personally, given everything that OP has provided, I think he'd be a fool to opt for reconciliation. But, if that's what he wants, then I'll advise him in that regard. And, if I find that I can't do that in a constructive manner, I'll do my best to refrain from contributing to his thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Eh... that sort of depends on whether or not he'd clearly stated what he'd wanted to do.
> 
> It's true that many men don't divorce over a single EA. But multiple EA's over the course of several years? And then throw in all of the emotional abuse, the constant bashing and trashing that she's been doing to friends and family (including their own children!), AND her participation in this toxic relationship w/ her sister...?
> 
> NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT F*CKING MIND would advise a betrayed spouse to opt for reconciliation w/ a wayward that has not only _repeatedly_ shown a penchant for obtaining emotional and/or sexual fulfillment outside of their marriage, but also the *immense* level of disrespect described above.
> 
> 
> 
> Well... not _everything_. Right?
> 
> Either way, I AM happy for you. Seriously. It's always good to hear a positive reconciliation story.
> 
> But you need to clear that last hurdle. If you don't, it will always be there, just waiting to trip up your reconciliation.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the BS's here -- BH's in particular -- tend to project their own issues onto those of others. Many regret that they didn't take a firmer stance w/ their own WS's upon discovering or being confronted with their spouses' affairs, which might have afforded them the opportunity to either leave or reconcile their marriages w/ at least a bit more of their dignity and self-respect intact. Conversely, many (though clearly not _as_ many) regret that they didn't take a more measured approach w/ their WS's, which might have allowed them to salvage their marriages. Hell, many regret having discovered the affairs at all.
> 
> *But many FWS's project as well.* And, just as every WS is *not* an incubus or succubus summoned directly from the fiery pits of Hell, not every WS is possessed of the constitution (or even presence of mind) required to acknowledge his or her transgressions, the grace to apologize for them, and/or the patience and compassion required to then work toward making amends for them.
> 
> And seriously... how much of OP's latest update did you read?
> 
> "Honey, here are all of my device, e-mail, and social media passwords. I want you to have them so that you can always be assured that I'll never again engage in any of this awful, hurtful, adulterous behavior."
> 
> Passwords were changed the very next morning.
> 
> :scratchhead:


Gus...
:allhail:


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## tom67

Hey a young mother needs help here if you can

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...go-full-force-let-him-have-what-he-wants.html
Please if you can support her.
Thanx.


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## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Gus...
> :allhail:


/salute


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## G.J.

Alli3fire said:


> I'm not blaming him. It is my own fault for what I did but there were some things that he did that led me down that path, in addition to my own bad decisions.


As soon as you say that when telling it, you are

Just tell the story and if anyone asks then add the rest if it heps you


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## G.J.

Alli3fire said:


> No, Gus, I haven't. We've left that soccer club.


jeez


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## G.J.

Alli3fire said:


> I lied because I said it was no-one that he knew when in fact it was. He didn't press the issue and at this point he says he wants to move on and put this behind us. Yes, I have a horrible horrible fear of him finding out. Perhaps I will have the strenght to tell him at some point but I don't now.


Poor guy and he is in a R built on a lie

You never learnt


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## G.J.

Alli3fire said:


> *I *do deserve it. *I'm* going to have a long happy married life and everyday *I *do everything *I* can to ensure my husband is happy and* I* am the best wife* I* can be to him. *I *know what* I* almost lost and *I* will never go back down that road. My choices are not yours and you don't live in my shoes so back off.


*I* = really explains everything about you


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## GusPolinski

Let's end the threadjack.


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## BigTexDad

Well, time for an update. Sorry I have not posted sooner. But just got done reading Alli3fire's comments and man, do they sound eerily familiar. If I didn't know better, Alli3fire is my wife. Same story, same prose, same writing style, same grammatical errors. Interesting. Almost like she is here trying to "justify" her sexting to you all.

So I know my wife sexting with someone we know. And she is 90% sure I know but she still won't fess up to "who" it was (even though I know). And sadly, that is what I needed her to do for a true recovery to start. But since I knew she was insisting on maintaining that little secret, I knew the R would be pointless as it would be built on dishonesty. 

Wazza….I am not delaying divorce or reconsidering. I am strategically keeping her close enough to get info I need for court but at a distance far enough to keep her out of my business. I am merely playing her to gain intel for the case. I had hoped I would have been able to have her served by now but with assets involved this is going to be a long process. Attorney recommended we get beyond tax season and filing. She has to sign 1040 and if she knows we are headed to divorce, she will want a copy of that and all other financial records. If she assumes nothing then she will just sign like she does every year and not read what she is signing.


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## G.J.

BigTexDad said:


> But just got done reading Alli3fire's comments and man, do they sound eerily familiar. If I didn't know better, Alli3fire is my wife. Same story, same prose, same writing style, same grammatical errors. Interesting. Almost like she is here trying to "justify" her sexting to you all.
> .


You don't think.....Well it couldn't be............could it 

ADD:
I would have this thread moved to private now your decided


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## bfree

Wazza said:


> Trying to get the thread back on track.....
> 
> I haven't actually seen much advice pro reconciliation here. And fwiw, I generally find TAM not very pro reconciliation. If I had followed the advice given here my marriage would probably have ended.
> 
> But OP has said he doesn't want to reconcile. A reasonable decision based on the information provided. Not the only option but its his choice.


TAM didn't used to be like that. Back in the day even the 2x4's had some padding wrapped around them. Now most of them are adorned with sharp nails.


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## 3putt

bfree said:


> TAM didn't used to be like that. Back in the day even the 2x4's had some padding wrapped around them. Now most of them are adorned with sharp nails.


The new breed, which is pretty much why I just sit back and read now when I have time. Still care, of course, but this place has changed a lot in the last year or so, and not for the better.


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## tom67

3putt said:


> The new breed, which is pretty much why I just sit back and read now when I have time. Still care, of course, but this place has changed a lot in the last year or so, and not for the better.


If you have watched the movie "divorcecorp" it will pIss you off like me and trigger most.
I turned it off when just because a guy wrote a blog about the court in pa he got ZERO custody of his two girls.
I turned it off after that.
Young guys have to watch before committing along with MMSLP.
Just my opinion.
I may be a piece of crap but like you guys out there generally I think before I write.
Anyway.


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## Decorum

tom67 said:


> If you have watched the movie "divorcecorp" it will pIss you off like me and trigger most.
> I turned it off when just because a guy wrote a blog about the court in pa he got ZERO custody of his two girls.
> I turned it off after that.
> Young guys have to watch before committing along with MMSLP.
> Just my opinion.
> I may be a piece of crap but like you guys out there generally I think before I write.
> Anyway.


??? Tom you are a thoughtful and supporitive poster. Its not you. There has even been a seachange in the op's, and there has been a subtle change in culture here. The unintended consequence is, its less "R" friendly.


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## 3putt

Decorum said:


> ??? Tom you are a thoughtful and supporitive poster. Its not you. There has even been a seachange in the op's, and there has been a subtle change in culture here. The unintended consequence is, its less "R" friendly.


No...it's definitely not folks like you and Tom.


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## Chaparral

Decorum said:


> ??? Tom you are a thoughtful and supporitive poster. Its not you. There has even been a seachange in the op's, and there has been a subtle change in culture here. The unintended consequence is, its less "R" friendly.


The OP's we see more and more can't understand that being walked on isn't an option. Few are willing to battle and few are reconciling. We also have some new posters giving some terrible advice to accept blame shifting, and rugsweeping.

Its got to the point you can't get some posters to even check phone records. Oh well.


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## Chaparral

Oh and don't have the guts to expose the affair.


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## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Oh and don't have the guts to expose the affair.


Totally agree on this.


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## drifting on

tom67 said:


> If you have watched the movie "divorcecorp" it will pIss you off like me and trigger most.
> I turned it off when just because a guy wrote a blog about the court in pa he got ZERO custody of his two girls.
> I turned it off after that.
> Young guys have to watch before committing along with MMSLP.
> Just my opinion.
> I may be a piece of crap but like you guys out there generally I think before I write.
> Anyway.



ETA: large fingers small screen=inadvertent errors. 
Tom67
You have written many posts that I have personally gained from. I, for one, am glad you post as it is helpful and sometimes challenges myself. So from me thank you for posting. Sorry for the thread jack.


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## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> The OP's we see more and more can't understand that being walked on isn't an option. Few are willing to battle and few are reconciling. We also have some new posters giving some terrible advice to accept blame shifting, and rugsweeping.
> 
> Its got to the point you can't get some posters to even check phone records. Oh well.


Being walked on is kind of by definition what happens when you get cheated on.

At some stage you have to stand up for yourself, draw a line in the same and stick with it. But the whole thing starts with having been wronged, and you do have to address the factors that got you into that position. And you have to accept a certain amount of sh1t....like at some stage your spouse chose to break their vows, and maybe put their lover ahead of you at some stage.

Of course, if the factor that led to the affair is someone who cracked under great pressure, or who was not together on boundaries and ended up somewhere wrong as a result, it's not the same as someone who just has no intention of being faithful. 

It becomes a balance...when to compromise vs when to stand firm. 

I don't think most TAM CWI people get the need for that compromise, and I wonder if divorcees are over-represented here.

My wife was in a bad place. Her feelings for the other man were no less genuine for being misplaced and she had to deal with that. During the affair she was foggy and thought (and said!) some really dumb and hurtful things.


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## Dyokemm

Wazza,

I'm happy for you that you were able to save your M and seem genuinely happy with your fWW and R.

I just don't think I could ever forgive a situation where I had to compete for the affection of or make those type of compromises with someone I had taken VOWS with.

Those pesky vows are supposed to mean that this NEVER happens between a couple....The WS is a liar and a traitor...a complete Judas.

I admire your strength to be able to get through that....but I know I never could.

I immediately kicked my LTgf to the curb when I caught her....and I didn't even have vows yet with her (we were beginning plans for our wedding)....if we had been M, I think my anger would have been even more intense.


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## Wazza

Dyokemm said:


> Wazza,
> 
> I'm happy for you that you were able to save your M and seem genuinely happy with your fWW and R.
> 
> I just don't think I could ever forgive a situation where I had to compete for the affection of or make those type of compromises with someone I had taken VOWS with.
> 
> Those pesky vows are supposed to mean that this NEVER happens between a couple....The WS is a liar and a traitor...a complete Judas.
> 
> I admire your strength to be able to get through that....but I know I never could.
> 
> I immediately kicked my LTgf to the curb when I caught her....and I didn't even have vows yet with her (we were beginning plans for our wedding)....if we had been M, I think my anger would have been even more intense.


There was a lot of anger, and yes it was a betrayal. If there had not been kids to consider, who knows what might have been different?


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## Catherine602

Does she still have passwords on her iPhone and iPad?


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## Rugs

Tex, I don't even know what to say about you, your marriage, or your wife. This to me is an non-reconcilable marriage. 

Your wife could never change because she doesn't respect you or your marriage. You would have to start respecting yourself and stop "niceing" your marriage. 

If you truly care about your children, you will set an example by standing up for yourself. I hate the term, "man-up" because taking charge of the family could fall on the husband or the wife. 

Someone needs to set this sinking ship straight. Your wife has been infantiled by you so she can't do it and your children are not responsible for this mess. 

YOU have the power to change everything in an instant. This could all go away if you would take charge and put an end to this nonsense. This thread is unbelievable to me but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. It's scary that people live this way. 

I hope you have a great lawyer and finish your marriage and don't look back. Pretend your wife is dead. Trust me, your kids will be happy, secure, and proud of their dad one you pick up your nuts and quickly divorce your wife. 

For those of you that think this is a salvageable marriage, what planet are you living on? I see this as a one-sided, highly abusive and destructive marriage. 

Oh, ha, and that old hormone thing that may have some men bamboozled....., it doesn't work that way. Hysterectomies, menopause, childbirth, periods, PMS,..... None of this causes a woman to cheat. Eat chocolate, sweat, cry, have a headache, backache, be moody, possibly, but not cheat on you repeatedly or even once. Don't buy it, it doesn't work that way.


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