# My husband isn't attracted to me or interested anymore - 19 years



## hopels (May 21, 2017)

I married my husband 19 years ago. We have been struggling for 2 years and it has slowly become worse. We have had a good marriage up until these problems started. Prior to this, we rarely fought. He has always made the decisions and I followed suit. It has been easy for us and up until two years ago I’d say we were in a very successful marriage. 

I wonder if maybe it is just a stage or mid-life crisis. Our kids are starting to leave the nest, so to speak. Our oldest daughter graduated high school last June, our second oldest daughter is graduating high school next month. Our oldest daughter just moved in with her boyfriend, which my husband was not happy about but she is 19 and we cannot stop her. She is doing very well in school and needs to make her own choices and mistakes. My husband thinks we should cut her off tuition funding until she “smartens up” and moves back home or gets an apartment with our second oldest daughter. Then we move onto our second daughter, who is going into a program that my husband does not approve of and thinks it’s a waste of time and money. It’s what she wants to study and that is fine by me. There is no use forcing her to do something she won’t like. He doesn’t want to pay for her tuition even though we’ve set aside money for all of our kids to go. We have been fighting about this non-stop for 4 months. I would take the money out myself but the RESP is in my husband’s name and cannot be accessed without him. That is issue #1. 

Our second problem is that he doesn’t find me attractive anymore. He always use to tell me how sexy I was, hot, beautiful. He touched my body all the time and we had sex at least once a day. There were certain (r-rated) things he liked me to do for him that he has no interest in now. Now he says I’m “cute”, and his definition of cute is an average looking, normal looking person. He had a sexual affair with a work colleague last March and April. He ended the affair and we have been trying to put it past us. It may be controversial but he allowed me to go out with and have sex with another man. Prior to that my husband was the only man I had been intimate with. I did that twice, neither time bothered my husband which bothered me. I wanted him to care, be jealous, hurt. He recently said I could do it again if I wanted. I DON’T want that! 

Now, since his affair, he doesn’t want to touch my body. He doesn’t compliment me. He doesn’t want to have sex often. He doesn’t do any romantic gestures. At night we sleep on opposite sides of the bed or in different rooms. For our whole marriage (until now) we had sex daily and I always made sure he was pleased. He did the same for me. Now he still has an interest in sex but not as high and he doesn’t care about my pleasure. He is struggling more with ED (achieving or maintaining an erection, and cannot always ejaculate). I know age is a factor there, but I also wonder if our other problems are playing a role. 

Our third problem is family. My family does not like him, his does not like me. His family has let it go more than mine. My parents hate him. They think I was too young to get married, married to fast and he is a predator, and 19 years later still have not dropped it. When I call them there is a 50/50 chance they talk about me divorcing my husband. They, like everyone else, judge because he is older than I am. As a mother of children the age I was when I married, I get it. But I can’t go back 20 years and change it. My husband has always tried to stay on their better side and prove himself to them, for the last year he has totally given up on that and doesn’t care at all. He got into a physical fight with my brother and isn’t welcome in my families homes now. 

We are on vacation right now, we go once a year to Central or South America on our anniversary and he is completely ruining it. He doesn’t want to do anything with me, he has no interest in me, he doesn’t care if other men flirt with me. Is it because he is no longer attracted to me? Is it still because of his affair? We have made it through a lot together and I don’t want to give up now.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

It could be that it bothers him more than he leads on of you sleeping with someone else, this was a bad choice on your end as his affair was a bad choice on his end.

He has disconnected from the marriage,it sounds like he might be done.

Have you tried marriage counseling?


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Lostme said:


> It could be that it bothers him more than he leads on of you sleeping with someone else, this was a bad choice on your end as his affair was a bad choice on his end.
> 
> He has disconnected from the marriage,it sounds like he might be done.
> 
> Have you tried marriage counseling?


He was the one that suggested it in the first place, though. We were talking about how I was feeling and he suggested that I experience another man. He thought it would help. It's not something that I ever would have brought up and he pushed/encouraged me to do it. Afterwards, he suggested doing it again when the first time didn't go that well. Since then he hasn't brought it up but also doesn't care if another man flirts with me or if I'm working with another man (who I work with changes often). He says it's not a big deal. He has disconnected. It's possible that it bothers him more than he lets on, but why would he suggest it or not tell me about it?

My husband refuses to go to marriage counselling, or personal counselling (for me or him). We have never gone.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, how old are you and how old is your husband? Your marriage is in crisis. He's cheated and you've cheated. Marriage counseling would help you.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Roselyn said:


> OP, how old are you and how old is your husband? Your marriage is in crisis. He's cheated and you've cheated. Marriage counseling would help you.


I'm 37. My husband is 52. Hold the judgement, I've had it for 19 years. He refuses to go to counselling because he doesn't want the judgement and thinks it will make our marriage worse. I would go if he would. 

He let me see another man (2 men) and encouraged it. I don't consider it cheating per say. It wasn't right, I know that. More like buyers remorse. If he regrets that decision, he has never told me about it.


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## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi, It depends upon how much effort you want to give into saving your marriage. Unless you are happy with an open marriage with multiple partners, he should agree to marriage counseling to help communicate and work out your issues. If he is not agreeable to it, then in my opinion you are wasting your time and should file for divorce and find a man who wants you.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

GreenLantern said:


> Hi, It depends upon how much effort you want to give into saving your marriage. Unless you are happy with an open marriage with multiple partners, he should agree to marriage counseling to help communicate and work out your issues. If he is not agreeable to it, then in my opinion you are wasting your time and should file for divorce and find a man who wants you.


I don't want an open marriage. I'm not going to say that I totally hated being with another man, it was fun and exciting and fed some curiosity that I had. At the end of the day, I love my husband. I'm comfortable with him and we have made it this far I don't want to give up now. We're almost at the years were we just get to enjoy each other. No part of me wants a divorce, or an open marriage. Is it possible to convince him to go to marriage counselling with me?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
If I were to murder your mother would it even the score if you murdered mine? Your H dealt the marriage a death blow and instead of remorse and contrition he offered a double homicide. Your position in the marriage is not very well defined either if you did such a thing, twice. It shows that you have little regard for him AND for yourself because if you had truly not wanted to do it you would not have done it, so there is that. 

Your H seems to be completely checked out of the marriage and you do not seem to be solidly grounded in it either so what is it that you wish to save? At this point there seems to be little to work with upon which to rebuild. Also, there is the friction and disdain with your parents which has certainly played a part in stressing the marriage. It may be time to solve several issues by moving on. I am usually very pro marriage but when neither party is all in it is simply impossible to save.

As a matter of personal curiosity may I inquire as to how the two sexual episodes with those two other men enriched your life? There have been a couple of threads lately wherein the wife had only been with her H and no other man. They expressed their curiosity and to having a feeling of missing something. Did you find the events to be enriching? Did it offer you a sense of completeness now that you had been with another man/other men? I find the whole concept to be beyond my ability to grasp in regards to what is missing and what there is to be curious about.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

I am not sure counseling will help anything for attraction issues. Been there , done that. Sitting in a room with a stranger discussing your feelings would not turn on any man I know. You are probably being too needy. Nothing is less attractive. 

Guys are attracted visually. Try hitting the gym, dressing more provocatively, dirty talk , ECT. Pump up his ego in bed. He might feel in secure about the age difference. I can guarantee that building his ego and being a **** in bed would turn on most guys . If that doesn't work , dump him. Your only 37 . Another guy will swoop you up in a heartbeat.


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## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

hopels said:


> I don't want an open marriage. I'm not going to say that I totally hated being with another man, it was fun and exciting and fed some curiosity that I had. At the end of the day, I love my husband. I'm comfortable with him and we have made it this far I don't want to give up now. We're almost at the years were we just get to enjoy each other. No part of me wants a divorce, or an open marriage. Is it possible to convince him to go to marriage counselling with me?


You could communicate your wishes to him and say you believe it will help. If he is reluctant, then I don't think he is interested in a marriage with you anymore, or maybe he wants a sexless marriage, but is that what you want? And you can love someone, but at the same time realize you should not be together anymore. I know you have children, but if you are close to being empty nest, they are grown-up to handle the change. Overall I believe it takes two to be in a marriage, and you should try all you can to keep it alive, but if you can't get results, you may want to consider moving on.

Oh and I just saw your comment about his fear for being judged at marriage counseling for age difference. I doubt they would judge in any way. The fact is you are in a committed relationship for almost 20 years, you have children. The way society sometimes treats age difference is pathetic to me, love knows no age.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> If I were to murder your mother would it even the score if you murdered mine? Your H dealt the marriage a death blow and instead of remorse and contrition he offered a double homicide. Your position in the marriage is not very well defined either if you did such a thing, twice. It shows that you have little regard for him AND for yourself because if you had truly not wanted to do it you would not have done it, so there is that.
> 
> Your H seems to be completely checked out of the marriage and you do not seem to be solidly grounded in it either so what is it that you wish to save? At this point there seems to be little to work with upon which to rebuild. Also, there is the friction and disdain with your parents which has certainly played a part in stressing the marriage. It may be time to solve several issues by moving on. I am usually very pro marriage but when neither party is all in it is simply impossible to save.
> ...


Two wrongs don't make a right, I know. Afterwards I didn't feel even or that his affair was forgiven. I did it because I wanted to, there isn't any reason to lie. He offered, my immediate reaction was NO. Then I thought about it and wanted to, but didn't want to tell him that. With enough prodding I did it, and it was because I wanted to. He knows that. He also knows how to encourage me to do something. Part of it was to get back at him and show him how it feels (did not work). I always had curiosity about other men that surfaced occasionally. I married and had a child with my husband at 18, I felt like I skipped a lot of steps and was sometimes jealous of my friends. I felt like sleeping with another man would be some ground breaking revelation. It wasn't. It was fun and exciting but in the end I didn't walk away a different person or feel better. All I learned was that I'd betray my marriage, twice, for sex. 

My husband said that I held sex as too important. If I had other casual experiences I could understand how sex can mean nothing and be "just sex". He also said I shouldn't wonder what it would be like to be with another man, so now was my opportunity. The first time was very awkward and revenge was driving me. It was not a good time and I found it very uncomfortable. Moments before I had only been with my husband, I had never even kissed another man. I didn't enjoy it and felt worse when it was over. My husband told me to try again one more time, with someone else. I did, and it was better. It was fun and exciting and I clicked with him better. We went out on a date first and ended up at his apartment. I had fun with him and for a night I was selfish and focused on me, not my husband or family. He was the same age I was, which is something I had been curious about. The sex was different in that there was no worry about getting hard, staying hard or being able to finish. I don't regret doing it. I enjoyed the experience. If anything, it caused more curiosity it didn't eliminate it. I regret the effect it had or may have had on my marriage. 

I don't want to have been married this long, to just give up. The fighting in my family shouldn't have been for nothing. I love my husband. Right now it's hard because he is so distant and it feels like I don't even get scraps of him. We have had a good marriage up until this and I'm not ready to walk away from that. We haven't tried everything, he has been totally unwilling to try counselling. I love being with him and spending time with him. He use to be caring, sweet, funny. He'd leave little notes hidden in my clothes or around the house. We were spontaneous, he's a great dad, I miss him when we're apart. I want my husband back.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Stang197 said:


> I am not sure counseling will help anything for attraction issues. Been there , done that. Sitting in a room with a stranger discussing your feelings would not turn on any man I know. You are probably being too needy. Nothing is less attractive.
> 
> Guys are attracted visually. Try hitting the gym, dressing more provocatively, dirty talk , ECT. Pump up his ego in bed. He might feel in secure about the age difference. I can guarantee that building his ego and being a **** in bed would turn on most guys . If that doesn't work , dump him. Your only 37 . Another guy will swoop you up in a heartbeat.


I don't think 19 years of marriage should be thrown away as easily as "just dump him". I have spent my entire adult life with him. He's my husband, my kids' father, we've built a life together. 

I'm not overweight, I never have been. I work out, not as much as I use to. I haven't change anything about myself. Maybe he's bored of me and I have to try changing things or spicing things up more. Lingerie hasn't helped. There were things that he liked that he no longer has an interest in.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

GreenLantern said:


> You could communicate your wishes to him and say you believe it will help. If he is reluctant, then I don't think he is interested in a marriage with you anymore, or maybe he wants a sexless marriage, but is that what you want? And you can love someone, but at the same time realize you should not be together anymore. I know you have children, but if you are close to being empty nest, they are grown-up to handle the change. Overall I believe it takes two to be in a marriage, and you should try all you can to keep it alive, but if you can't get results, you may want to consider moving on.
> 
> Oh and I just saw your comment about his fear for being judged at marriage counseling for age difference. I doubt they would judge in any way. The fact is you are in a committed relationship for almost 20 years, you have children. The way society sometimes treats age difference is pathetic to me, love knows no age.


I'll have another talk with him and tell him that I am serious about marriage counselling and I think it will help. His reasons for not wanting to go to counselling is that he doesn't want to be judged for the age difference and doesn't want me to be convinced that I shouldn't be with him. We have been married for 19 years, I don't think there is a reason for judgement. I know there would be some questions about it, and my husband hates that. He could at least give it a try. Our kids wouldn't be surprised if we divorced, they have noticed a difference in the way we act towards each other and have asked if we're getting a divorce.


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## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

hopels said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right, I know. Afterwards I didn't feel even or that his affair was forgiven. I did it because I wanted to, there isn't any reason to lie. He offered, my immediate reaction was NO. Then I thought about it and wanted to, but didn't want to tell him that. With enough prodding I did it, and it was because I wanted to. He knows that. He also knows how to encourage me to do something. Part of it was to get back at him and show him how it feels (did not work). I always had curiosity about other men that surfaced occasionally. I married and had a child with my husband at 18, I felt like I skipped a lot of steps and was sometimes jealous of my friends. I felt like sleeping with another man would be some ground breaking revelation. It wasn't. It was fun and exciting but in the end I didn't walk away a different person or feel better. All I learned was that I'd betray my marriage, twice, for sex.
> 
> My husband said that I held sex as too important. If I had other casual experiences I could understand how sex can mean nothing and be "just sex". He also said I shouldn't wonder what it would be like to be with another man, so now was my opportunity. The first time was very awkward and revenge was driving me. It was not a good time and I found it very uncomfortable. Moments before I had only been with my husband, I had never even kissed another man. I didn't enjoy it and felt worse when it was over. My husband told me to try again one more time, with someone else. I did, and it was better. It was fun and exciting and I clicked with him better. We went out on a date first and ended up at his apartment. I had fun with him and for a night I was selfish and focused on me, not my husband or family. He was the same age I was, which is something I had been curious about. The sex was different in that there was no worry about getting hard, staying hard or being able to finish. I don't regret doing it. I enjoyed the experience. If anything, it caused more curiosity it didn't eliminate it. I regret the effect it had or may have had on my marriage.
> 
> I don't want to have been married this long, to just give up. The fighting in my family shouldn't have been for nothing. I love my husband. Right now it's hard because he is so distant and it feels like I don't even get scraps of him. We have had a good marriage up until this and I'm not ready to walk away from that. We haven't tried everything, he has been totally unwilling to try counselling. I love being with him and spending time with him. He use to be caring, sweet, funny. He'd leave little notes hidden in my clothes or around the house. We were spontaneous, he's a great dad, I miss him when we're apart. I want my husband back.


Sex is important, and as a man, I find that comment incredible. I think it is just telling you he no longer wants to have sex with you as he has diverged and apparently has no remorse. You did the same, and did. The fact that you are getting more curious is also a sign that you need to move on. 

And on your last comment, the key is you love the way he USED to treat you and want it back. Your choice is how long do you wait for it to magically come back. The fact that you stay fit and attractive seems to confirm he wants out, and just doesn't have the guts and man up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is a very good chance that you can turn this around. But you cannot do it pleading with him and trying to talk him into it. Instead you have to find a way to get his attention and inspire him. And yes, it is completely possible to get all that loving feeling back.

There are a few books that are, to me, better than any counseling I've ever gotten. Counseling has it's place. But we often need a lot more than counselors can give in an hour every week or two.

Here are two books that can help you turn this around basically unilaterally. In this first book, pay special attention to the chapter on changing the environment. It talks about a "180". The book goes into it. If you note there is a link to a "180" in my signature block below. That is not the "180" that this book talks about. 

What you need is a "180" that is basically changing your behavior to be something that your husband does not expect. Remake yourself. 

Basically you cannot make anyone else change. You can only change yourself. But, if you change the environment, change yourself, it will force him to change. And usually this ends up being a positive change in the other person.

*The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage*  by Michele Weiner Davis

The next book here is a follow on book that has more helpful info.

*Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again*  by Michele Weiner-Davis

I suggest that you not let me see you reading the two above books. It might be best if he is not aware of what you are doing.

Once he is on board and things are going better, if you want to fine tune your marriage, I suggest the next two books. Read them in the order listed here. They are for both of you to read together and do the work that they suggest. There are links to these two books in my signature block below.

*"Love Busters"

"His Needs, Her Needs"*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What is the area of study that your second daughter is going into? And what is it that your husband wants her to study instead?


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## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

hopels said:


> I'll have another talk with him and tell him that I am serious about marriage counselling and I think it will help. His reasons for not wanting to go to counselling is that he doesn't want to be judged for the age difference and doesn't want me to be convinced that I shouldn't be with him. We have been married for 19 years, I don't think there is a reason for judgement. I know there would be some questions about it, and my husband hates that. He could at least give it a try. Our kids wouldn't be surprised if we divorced, they have noticed a difference in the way we act towards each other and have asked if we're getting a divorce.


I think your husband's concern about you being convinced you should not be together is an unfounded fear. He should be confident in your love for him, he seems uncertain and because of age difference, after 19 years? 

I agree you should encourage him to give it a try, it will not hurt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hopels said:


> I'll have another talk with him and tell him that I am serious about marriage counselling and I think it will help. His reasons for not wanting to go to counselling is that he doesn't want to be judged for the age difference and doesn't want me to be convinced that I shouldn't be with him. We have been married for 19 years, I don't think there is a reason for judgement. I know there would be some questions about it, and my husband hates that. He could at least give it a try. Our kids wouldn't be surprised if we divorced, they have noticed a difference in the way we act towards each other and have asked if we're getting a divorce.


I seriously doubt that any counselors are going to have a second thought about your age different. The fact is that you were of legal age when you marriage. He's not a predator. It's sad that your family has kept up this nonsense all these years. 

There are plenty of couples with a large age difference. Does he really think that this is all that unique?


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

hopels said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure counseling will help anything for attraction issues. Been there , done that. Sitting in a room with a stranger discussing your feelings would not turn on any man I know. You are probably being too needy. Nothing is less attractive.
> ...



I don't think at this point you would be "just dumping him". There is plenty of justification here. My main point was why waste any more of your time if he is not attracted. 
You seem like a sweet girl. It understandable that you want to hold the family together. The ironic thing here is that if you do pull the trigger on this marriage it might wake him up.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> There is a very good chance that you can turn this around. But you cannot do it pleading with him and trying to talk him into it. Instead you have to find a way to get his attention and inspire him. And yes, it is completely possible to get all that loving feeling back.
> 
> There are a few books that are, to me, better than any counseling I've ever gotten. Counseling has it's place. But we often need a lot more than counselors can give in an hour every week or two.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the book recommendations. I will order them so I can read them when we get home. He would be more willing to read a book as well, than counselling.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> What is the area of study that your second daughter is going into? And what is it that your husband wants her to study instead?


She is going for a B.Sc in Environmental Science, and doesn't know what she wants to do with it afterwards. Our oldest daughter is in a nursing program. Our 15 year old son is set on engineering right now.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

GreenLantern said:


> I think your husband's concern about you being convinced you should not be together is an unfounded fear. He should be confident in your love for him, he seems uncertain and because of age difference, after 19 years?
> 
> I agree you should encourage him to give it a try, it will not hurt.


At the beginning of our marriage he didn't want me to talk to counsellors or tell people (doctors, professors, counsellors) that we had a large age gap. He said I'd be convinced that I shouldn't be with him. Which is fair to worry about, 19 years ago. We have been together for almost 20 years. It shouldn't matter anymore, to anyone. I posted on a different forum years ago and the response was that he's a predator, he groomed me, he's a child molester/rapist. For him, his biggest fear is me being convinced that any of that is true. For me, it's him being bored of me. Yes, I was young when we met. We met at work and he was in a higher position. The woman he had an affair with works with him and is about 10 years younger than I am. Maybe he prefers younger women and I'm not fitting that image anymore.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Stang197 said:


> I don't think at this point you would be "just dumping him". There is plenty of justification here. My main point was why waste any more of your time if he is not attracted.
> You seem like a sweet girl. It understandable that you want to hold the family together. The ironic thing here is that if you do pull the trigger on this marriage it might wake him up.


Sometimes I think about starting a divorce in hopes that he'll wake up, and I've had two friends suggest that. My fear is that he does nothing and it's really over. I want to be with someone who finds me attractive, loves being with me, is happy with me, but I want that to be with him. I don't want to have regrets in 5, 10, 20 years because I let it go on too long and things never changed.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you sure (or as sure as you can be) that he's not having an affair since he's suggesting you see other men again?


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I seriously doubt that any counselors are going to have a second thought about your age different. The fact is that you were of legal age when you marriage. He's not a predator. It's sad that your family has kept up this nonsense all these years.
> 
> There are plenty of couples with a large age difference. Does he really think that this is all that unique?


We know 2 couples with an age gap over 10 years. The difference, to my husband, is that they met when the younger partner was in their 30's. We had a lot of judgement for the first 10 years, give or take. It's much less now but still experienced from time to time. My family has never dropped it. They tried to have him charged with statutory rape, then called the police 3 other times saying he was abusing me. They are still of the opinion that he groomed or forced me to be with him and I feel stuck or don't know any better. That affected him a lot. 

I understand it. If my 18 year old daughter came home pregnant with a 33 year old boyfriend I wouldn't be happy about it, and I've done it. But if she had been married to him for 19 years, it's time to drop it. I'm happy, my husband is happy, our kids are happy.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Are you sure (or as sure as you can be) that he's not having an affair since he's suggesting you see other men again?


During his affair, which lasted two months, he was very easily pissed off and on the aggressive side. He didn't hit me, but he'd push me away or grab my arm and squeeze. He yelled a lot and snapped with our kids. He hasn't acted like that at all. I haven't had a suspicion that he's having another affair. I could be wrong, I didn't figure it out the first time. Someone told me it was going on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hopels said:


> During his affair, which lasted two months, he was very easily pissed off and on the aggressive side. He didn't hit me, but he'd push me away or grab my arm and squeeze. He yelled a lot and snapped with our kids. He hasn't acted like that at all. I haven't had a suspicion that he's having another affair. I could be wrong, I didn't figure it out the first time. Someone told me it was going on.


How do you know that the affair has stopped?

Adultery causes severe damage to a marriage. He has had sex with one person and you with two. The trust must have gone. It will be very hard to make this work, especially when he doesn't even seem to care if you see other men.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> How do you know that the affair has stopped?
> 
> Adultery causes severe damage to a marriage. He has had sex with one person and you with two. The trust must have gone. It will be very hard to make this work, especially when he doesn't even seem to care if you see other men.


I just have to trust him on it. I don't know who told me, it was a random person who sent a text message and picture. I didn't know that it was going on, so it's harder to know for sure that it's over. He lets me have full access to his computer and cell phone. The hours that he works are available to be seen online every 2 weeks, I can look at them if I want to. During his affair he told me that he was working later hours. In the beginning he called me during his lunch break, because ours are both at the same time. I'm trying to put it behind us and let it go. Constant reminders or thinking about it (like right now) gets me very upset. Pretending it didn't happen is easier.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

hopels said:


> I'm happy, my husband is happy, our kids are happy.


He's had at least one affair. You've had 2 affairs. He treated you abominably and was abusive during the affair you know about. You're pretending it never happened as much as you can. Your husband is now detached and disinterested. 

Honesty, and I am saying this as a former WW, I think he's done more than you know and I am not really seeing anything worth saving here.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Lots of good suggestions.

As for your agreement to have sex with other men because your husband pushed you to, I did the same thing to my wife when she screwed up (flip the roles, genders). Yeah, because I am the man, it was my idea, being the big bad wolf, and the dominant one in the relationship. Oh well, we all make mistakes. In my case I do think it helped me get over being jealous, but I also made my wife go to counseling. I could get away with that. Just like your husband could talk you into trying what he was suggesting. 

For reference, my wife happens to be bat-**** crazy. She reads everything I post here, and has to make that emoji with her hands in the air, saying Gee, I don't know. She does know, but hey, she is so cute what can I say. She continued in Individual Counseling for 8 years.

We went through nearly 2 years of pure hell before I finally forgave her for the affair, and her subsequent lies. It was the lies that hurt the most, by far.

Counselling is really important, I think. You can get back from your mistakes, I think. Counseling can help. Individual counseling if you can't get your husband to go. My wife got me to go to two sessions of counseling, but her psychiatrists didn't want me to be in therapy. But as I said it was different.

Maybe if you go to individual counseling, and then report to him that the counselor would like him to come to a session, he would attend one. Then maybe another, and another. After all, I attended the ones I was invited to by the shrinks.

I think your husband needs to go, but I have no other ideas how to get him to go. 

EleGirl has great suggestions. Be sure to get those books and read them.

I am sure you can recover from this, if you can get things rolling right. Mostly that means getting your husband on board, which can be tough. Sorry about that.

Good luck.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Sex is just sex when there is no emotional attachment. If there is caring, commitment and a desire too be closer to the person then it is not "just sex". I am still puzzled by your response. It increased your curiosity? Interesting. If one is in a marriage and committed to another person I still fail to see what there is to be curious about. I physically could not enjoy nor could I be excited by, sex with someone that is not my spouse. It is not possible. Excitement and enjoyment are inexorably tied to my vows, commitment and honor. It would appear that I simply must accept that I am incapable of understanding this way of thinking.

In any event, you H's fears of judgement and scorn is wholly unfounded. Your 19 year marriage is proof enough that he wasn't in it for the short term but rather had genuine feelings for you. However, having said that, it is somewhat unsettling that his affair was with a 27 yo, ten years your junior and only 8 years older than your daughter.

If he truly feels that a counselor or therapist may convince you that he is a predator and that you should leave him what effect does he think cheating on you and prodding you to have sex with other men is going to have? I find these two points of view to be irreconcilable and in opposition to one another. Something seems off with his mindset.

Is he expecting that you simply allow him his "just sex" affairs and participate in your own? Open marriages are fraught with pitfalls and peril unless both parties are fully cognizant of same and are, to the extent possible, prepared to avoid/deal with them. You may be suited to that lifestyle as it would allow you to explore men of all different shapes, sizes, colors and ages perhaps satiating your curiosity. If that is what you desire then I wish you success. If not then you will have to discern from your H what he wants going forward and express to him what you need/want and see if they are compatible.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

hopels said:


> Our second problem is that he doesn’t find me attractive anymore. He always use to tell me how sexy I was, hot, beautiful. He touched my body all the time and we had sex at least once a day. There were certain (r-rated) things he liked me to do for him that he has no interest in now. Now he says I’m “cute”, and his definition of cute is an average looking, normal looking person. *He had a sexual affair with a work colleague last March and April. He ended the affair and we have been trying to put it past us. It may be controversial but he allowed me to go out with and have sex with another man. *Prior to that my husband was the only man I had been intimate with. I did that twice, neither time bothered my husband which bothered me. I wanted him to care, be jealous, hurt. He recently said I could do it again if I wanted. I DON’T want that!
> 
> Now, since his affair, he doesn’t want to touch my body. He doesn’t compliment me. He doesn’t want to have sex often. He doesn’t do any romantic gestures. At night we sleep on opposite sides of the bed or in different rooms. For our whole marriage (until now) we had sex daily and I always made sure he was pleased. He did the same for me. Now he still has an interest in sex but not as high and he doesn’t care about my pleasure. *He is struggling more with ED (achieving or maintaining an erection, and cannot always ejaculate).* I know age is a factor there, but I also wonder if our other problems are playing a role.
> 
> *He doesn’t want to do anything with me, he has no interest in me, he doesn’t care if other men flirt with me.* Is it because he is no longer attracted to me? Is it still because of his affair? We have made it through a lot together and I don’t want to give up now.


You need to investigate. I bolded your red flags. It sounds to me like your husband is still very much entrenched in his affair and in contact with the OW. You have other issues in the marriage, but those can't be resolved or negotiated until he is 100% no longer in contact with his affair partner and he's implemented the steps for recovery outlined in Surviving an Affair.

Until you do that, you'll be unable to move forward in the marriage.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The problem is because she allowed him to talk her into having affairs of her own they have, essentially, an open marriage at this point.

That's probably how he sees it. Even if she doesn't.

He has checked out, and the women he is having sex with are his interest. She can investigate all she wants, and it won't help.

They need to close the marriage again. My wife says, Or end it. My wife says it sounds like he has already ended it. But I suspect the Original Poster doesn't want to hear that answer.

Sex is just sex. They can get back from all this if they can get the husband to agree to close the marriage.

It's a crisis, and yes, he is almost certainly having an ongoing affair, but he won't care because she had affairs. Until he works that out with a counselor, there is little chance of making him care.

We've done wacky stuff. We made it back. It's not easy. 

But her husband is not going to take any blame or accept any responsibility at this point. Not until he agrees they should be monogamous from here forward.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Someone suggested the OP should do the 180, and move forward from there with the possibility of dissolving the marriage as a leverage to get the husband to listen.

Mary says she thinks that is the only hope she can see. It is a strong message, and might work.

If it doesn't work, and they end up divorced, my wife, Mary, says all it is doing is putting legal status on what they already have.

And that's from my wife who screwed up the monogamous status of our marriage. She says do the 180. It is your only chance.

Edit: It's interesting to hear this as my wife's opinion. When my wife had her affair, Mary was just a wind blown leaf in the hurricane force wind of my rage. She did everything I told her to do, and would never have chosen anything on her own. But the roles are reversed in this post, so I guess that's why.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Even if he is in love with the OW (and it sounds like it to me), read Surviving an Affair for the steps to take to recover the marriage (if you choose to, OP). 

Many couples do recover from affairs, but you'll have to investigate so you know exactly what is going on your marriage because he's not going to tell you. He's cake-eating right now and you're on the losing side. DO NOT ask him for info. "Letting" you sleep with another guy 1 time in no way means that he will be open and honest with you about continuing contact with his affair partner.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Someone suggested the OP should do the 180, and move forward from there with the possibility of dissolving the marriage as a leverage to get the husband to listen.
> 
> Mary says she thinks that is the only hope she can see. It is a strong message, and might work.
> 
> ...


In Surviving an Affair, they cover what is called "Plan B" and it involves exposing the affair to bust it up and going into a dark no contact if the cheating spouse will not end the affair and follow the list of steps to implement precautions (using an intermediary for childcare logistics only). It seems to be MUCH more effective in getting the message across that the betrayed spouse will not tolerate this treatment in marriage and it helps the BS emotionally recover by allowing them to not see or talk with a cheater.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Whatever works will be good, that's for sure.

The only trouble I see is because the Original Poster did have two affairs herself. The husband put her up to it, but he will use those against her.

In the midst of my anger against Mary I did the same sort of thing, so I have an idea how it goes. In my case Mary couldn't use her ammunition against me because she was completely powerless before me, but she could have.

The Original Poster's husband thinks she accepted the idea of an open relationship, whether she wanted it or not. It will make it very hard to use his affairs as leverage against him.

As people point out, the fact he is encouraging her to continue having affairs indicates he is also.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

hopels said:


> *I just have to trust him on it.* I don't know who told me, it was a random person who sent a text message and picture. I didn't know that it was going on, so it's harder to know for sure that it's over. He lets me have full access to his computer and cell phone. The hours that he works are available to be seen online every 2 weeks, I can look at them if I want to. During his affair he told me that he was working later hours. In the beginning he called me during his lunch break, because ours are both at the same time. I'm trying to put it behind us and let it go. Constant reminders or thinking about it (like right now) gets me very upset. Pretending it didn't happen is easier.


NO! You do not have to take his word. Waywards are notorious for lying. You need to investigate to find out exactly what is going on in your marriage if you hope to have a chance to recover it, and even if you don't, you'll want to know what is going on so you can explain to your children why you're no longer living with their father, if it comes to that.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

With problem # 1 I agree with your husband. You are right that your daughter is 19 and gets to make her own decisions but that doesn't mean you have to finance them. So long as you are paying for college you absolutely get to have a decision on it. I would cut funds also.

The affair part... is he still around this work colleague. It's possible he is still in that affair but what is certain is that he has checked out of the marriage. If he isn't wanting to work on this it can't be fixed. You may have to think about what life may be without him in it. Possibly telling him that if he won't work on the marriage you will leave. Just don't make an empty threat. Only say that if you mean it because threatening and not following through is a kiss of death.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hopels said:


> She is going for a B.Sc in Environmental Science, and doesn't know what she wants to do with it afterwards. Our oldest daughter is in a nursing program. Our 15 year old son is set on engineering right now.


I have a friend who is an environmental scientist and is a federal employee. He's make about $110,000 a year. I do his taxes so I know he makes.

I did a google search for "jobs for Environmental Science" and came up with a lot of jobs for people with that degree. He does have his master's now. When he had just the MS degree, he was making about $85,000 a year after about 15 years on the job. 

Careers in Environmental Science | EnvironmentalScience.org

https://www.indeed.com/q-Environmental-Science-jobs.html

https://parsons.referrals.selectminds.com/jobs/environmental-co-op-3435?src=JB-10042

Here is some salary info. 

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Environmental-Scientist-Salaries

Maybe you and your daughter could search google, get a lot of info about careers and jobs in the field and show him that what she wants to do is not a bad choice at all.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

And nearly every company needs an Environmental Engineer now, with a degree in some field of Ecology and/or Environmental Science. It's a great area to work in.

Engineering pays well, but one problem is specialization is what pays best, and then if you get laid off it is tough to find a job in the specialized area. I was out of work for 2 years because no one needed me at the time of the downturn in high tech for my chosen specialty, but no one would hire me for regular jobs because I was over qualified. They knew as soon as the right job came open I would take it, and be gone from anything else. 

Also for engineering I have to move where the jobs are. So when the companies closed up in Silicon Valley in San Jose, CA, I had to move out of the valley. There was no choice. Some people don't like being moved just to keep a job. That's something to think about before choosing engineering.

So what may look good or bad, may not be.

My eldest son is a software architect, and he says that is the only way to fly. But he had to move back to San Francisco, even though he has been all over the world in his career, because right now he wants to get in on start ups, and that's where the action is for start ups in the US.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hopels said:


> My husband refuses to go to marriage counselling, or personal counselling (for me or him). We have never gone.


Well of course he does. 
You have no power in this marriage, he knows it, and he's lost respect for you because you kept him after he cheated. He's most likely still cheating because you kept him after he cheated. That's not a criticism of you, just an explanation of the psychology behind his actions.

If you want him to remember you're in the room, tell him to move out. Start proceedings for separation, and tell him you don't think you want to be married anymore and you need him to move out so you can think about it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> There is a very good chance that you can turn this around. But you cannot do it pleading with him and trying to talk him into it. Instead you have to find a way to get his attention and inspire him. And yes, it is completely possible to get all that loving feeling back.
> 
> There are a few books that are, to me, better than any counseling I've ever gotten. Counseling has it's place. But we often need a lot more than counselors can give in an hour every week or two.
> 
> ...


How many books do you suppose he is ordering off of Amazon and how much sleep is he losing at night worrying about the state of his marriage?

How many relationship forums do you suppose he is writing to for advice, support and encouragement in improving his marriage?

Is he going through the phone book and doing internet searches on finding marriage counselors and making phone calls trying to book appointments? 

Why is all of this heavy lifting being placed on her to fix?

(I am posing this as a question for the group and I am not singling out EleGirl)

My point is he is already gone and doesn't care. 

She's just handy to have around for him as long as she doesn't ask for anything and doesn't stir up much trouble. 

This marriage is either dead or terminal. The question that needs to be asked is, what is it for HER? The kids are grown and doing their own thing. She is still young and vibrant and would have no problem living a whole other new life. 

If he doesn't want to be in her new life, that is his prerogative.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It's fine to read books and go to counseling and do things to make yourself attractive and desirable to your mate AS LONG AS THOSE EFFORTS ARE RECIPROCATED. 

I see no reciprocation or initiative on his part her. 

Her options are -

A - suck it up and live with it until finds someone worth the hassle of divorcing her for and he leaves. 

or 

B - Take her life and well being into her own hands and start living her life for her and leave him behind to do as he wishes.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

These are just posited because it does seem the Original Poster is seeking ways to get her husband to want to try to fix the marriage. Motivating another person is the hardest task imaginable, but the OP does seem to want to hope.

We can recognize there is not much hope. But when my marriage was in blazes there certainly didn't seem to be any hope at all. Yet we have been happily married for another 37 years since the last of that fire was tamped out. Crazy years, yes, but hey, every marriage has issues.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

when people won't go to MC because they are afraid the counselor will call out their bad behavior and bad character; they are usually right.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I tried to edit an earlier post but bungled it somehow and wasn't able to re-edit. 

The point I was trying to get at is everyone here is suggesting the OP keep the UPS guy busy delivering boxes and boxes of relationship books from Amazon, looking up and contacting MC's, hitting the gym and doing her hair and nails etc, along with all of the things she should say and do to jump through hoops and walk on her hands and do back flips to capture his attraction, attention and desire. 

Now let's look at what he has offered in the way of improving their marriage - Screw two other guys. 

And what is he doing currently to improve the state of their relationship.....'crickets' 

Do y'all see the disconnect here?????????

MC and reading books and posting on relationship forums are fine and making one'self as fit and attractive is fine AS LONG AS THOSE EFFORTS ARE BEING RECIPROCATED. 

A relationship takes two to make work and both parties have to share in the heavy lifting if there is to have any salvation.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In regards to Mr Hospels sending her to other men's beds, this is not an "open marriage." This is a train wreck. 

It would be one thing if he wanted to watch or wanted to get into swinging etc etc but he didn't even do that. He did this in an attempt to shut her up about his screwing around. 

He basically has so little regard for her that he packs her up and sends her off to two creepy dudes to get her off his back about banging some 27 year old at work and to take the heat off of him. 

Let's be honest here, I think we can all bet the farm this is no where near his first rodeo. If he has such little regard for her and their marriage, there has to be a long line of other affairs and other women here - possibly throughout their entire marriage. 

He simply has no reverence for her and does not cherish her. 

What is even more sad is that even though he may have given her the hallpass and was his idea - that doesn't mean that he still isn't somewhat disgusted and grossed out by her coming home with other dude's stuff inside her. 

In otherwords, it may have been his idea and with his blessing and it was not cheating, but he is still disgusted by it and he still values her even less because of it. 

... very sick and dysfunctional :-(


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I tried to edit an earlier post but bungled it somehow and wasn't able to re-edit.
> 
> The point I was trying to get at is everyone here is suggesting the OP keep the UPS guy busy delivering boxes and boxes of relationship books from Amazon, looking up and contacting MC's, hitting the gym and doing her hair and nails etc, along with all of the things she should say and do to jump through hoops and walk on her hands and do back flips to capture his attraction, attention and desire.
> 
> ...


I fixed your bungled post. Your other two posts on this topic clearly explain your point of view. You have voiced your opinion.

If you want to argue with other members on the topic of whether or not a person can influence their marriage in a manner to fix it when things are looking pretty bad, please start another thread on the topic. There are plenty of people on this forum who have done exactly that. Yep, the were able to somehow influence things in their marriage to turn what looked like a lost cause into what they feel is a good marriage. 

There are also professionals who have helped a lot of people turn their marriages around, even when their spouse was not originally on board. 

hopels is apparently not ready to give up and wants to try one more time to see if she can turn her marriage around. This is what she wants to do. So, I suggested the best advice I know of to help her do that if it is at all possible.

A lot of people have to try one last time. If she works through those books and what she learns works for her, great! If it does not work for her in this marriage, she will be much wiser and better equipped for any future relationship.

It’s not your place, or any of ours place, to badger her into ending her relationship. We are here to support her in whatever direction she wants to take this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> In regards to Mr Hospels sending her to other men's beds, this is not an "open marriage." This is a train wreck.
> 
> It would be one thing if he wanted to watch or wanted to get into swinging etc etc but he didn't even do that. He did this in an attempt to shut her up about his screwing around.
> 
> ...


Geez, are you attacking the OP now?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hopels said:


> For him, his biggest fear is me being convinced that any of that is true.


Are you sure that's still true?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now let's talk about the elephant in the room that Hospels has been trying to sweep under the rug and some people have poo-poo'd. 

33 year old men hit on, knock up and marry 18 year old girls because 33 year old women are mature and wise enough to know that they aren't any good and run across the street to avoid them when they see them coming. 

33 year old men do not go after 18 year old girls because they are prettier and firmer and sexier. They go after them because they are naïve, inexperienced and are easier manipulated and controlled. 

We can't really use terms like molestation and sexual predator etc because technically they are consenting adults. 

But it is an indication of underlying character. 

The underlying character of a 33 year old man that approaches, knocks up and marries an 18 year old is one of control and manipulation. 

Yes, they have been married for 19 years and have kids in college and a roof over their head. 

But all you need to accomplish 19 years of marriage is simply to not divorce. Longevity does not indicate health, function or well being. It simply means they have not divorced. 

The fact both families still ardently disapprove 19 years later is quite telling. 

His refusal to attend MC because the MC will call him out on his bad behavior and bad character IS FOUNDED. 

His assumption that the MC and any other counselor will encourage her to leave him and seek out her own life IS FOUNDED. 

If they are worth their weight in beetle dung, they will point out his character flaws and bad behavior and they will support and encourage her to unshackle herself from him and seek out her own path and make a new and independent life for herself.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Geez, are you attacking the OP now?


Not at all. My heart aches for her. 

I am just facing facts and saying it like it is. 

This is a train wreck. Why call it anything else.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Not at all. My heart aches for her.
> 
> I am just facing facts and saying it like it is.
> 
> This is a train wreck. Why call it anything else.


What you said about her and how that was disgusting.

Guess what, it is equally as disgusting that her husband had some woman all over him. 

It goes both ways. You chose to only make that disgusting point about her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I fixed your bungled post. Your other two posts on this topic clearly explain your point of view. You have voiced your opinion.
> 
> If you want to argue with other members on the topic of whether or not a person can influence their marriage in a manner to fix it when things are looking pretty bad, please start another thread on the topic. There are plenty of people on this forum who have done exactly that. Yep, the were able to somehow influence things in their marriage to turn what looked like a lost cause into what they feel is a good marriage.
> 
> ...


OK that's fair. 

It's not that I'm trying to badger her into anything. But people can only support what they believe will have benefit. If someone is wanting to do something that others believe will cause that person harm, should they support them in their plan or shouldn't they steer them to alternative options??

But I get your point and I do see merit in people making a sincere attempt if for no other reason than that they can sleep at night and say that they tried. 

So here is my advice for the OP -

- go ahead and read the books. They will often indicate how a relationship "should" look and how normal, decent, healthy people "should" act and respond. 

- hit the gym, eat right, do your hair and nails and update the wardrobe. It's good for you, it will make feel better and look better and feel better about yourself if nothing else. 

- Do seek professional counseling. If he won't go, you go without him. Be open and honest with the counselor. Tell the truth. But then listen to what the counselor has to say and let it sink in. 


Then finally, as alluded to in my previous posts, watch your H for signs of reciprocation. Watch his actions. Always believe actions over words. 

Is he doing any heavy lifting? 

Is he responding in a positive manner? Is he transforming himself into the person you want him to be and the partner that you want?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> What you said about her and how that was disgusting.
> 
> Guess what, it is equally as disgusting that her husband had some woman all over him.
> 
> It goes both ways. You chose to only make that disgusting point about her.


I think you are misinterpreting what I was saying. 

Please allow me to try to clarify. 

I was not saying that the OP was disgusting. I was not saying or implying that at all. 

I am not saying that I was disgusted by the OP's actions at all. 

What I was getting at is that often times if a man's wife has sex with another man, whether he wants to or not, he may feel somewhat disgusted by that or will value her less. ...even if he consented to it. 

So what I was saying is that her being with other guys, may have had a negative impact on his value of her (which didn't sound great to begin with) even though it was his idea and he consent to it. 

It was not cheating. However it can still have some of the negative effects of lessening her value in his eyes. 

This is one of the risks that people take when they have sex with other people. 

Additionally, I only mentioned it about her because his affair(s) being a damaging influence goes without saying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I think you are misinterpreting what I was saying.
> 
> Please allow me to try to clarify.
> 
> ...


Yea and when men have affair, women value them less too. We get it.


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## hopels (May 21, 2017)

This isn’t what I expected to come back to.  

He has never called what I did an affair or cheating. He told me to do it. He encourage me to do it. He helped me do it… It wasn’t right to do it, I know that. We didn’t talk about having an open marriage. I slept with the second man, my husband and I talked about how it went and where my head was and dropped it. If I brought up his affair or was upset about it he brought up what I did (with his permission). He has never said that he wanted an open marriage or that he’s seeing other women. Tonight he straight out said he didn’t care if I slept with another man when I said I wanted to leave this resort room and he didn't want to come. Which felt like he ripped my heart our and stomped on it. 

I don’t want to think about my husband still being in the affair, being in another one or cheating in the past that I don’t know about. Not knowing about his affair and finding out from a stranger was bad enough. I don’t think I could handle him telling me that he’s in love with another woman. I can’t handle the idea of that. Our marriage isn’t great anymore, it’s not even good, but that’s not what I expected to hear… I kept him after he cheated because I didn’t want to give up and wanted to try and fix the problems. I didn’t think that would lead to him losing respect for me and continuing to cheat. He still works with the woman he had an affair with. I wanted him to quit his job but financially that would be a stupid decision. He has been there for 25 years and makes significantly more there than he could anywhere else. We have 4 kids to put through university. 

He doesn’t want to go to marriage counselling but he also doesn’t want me to go to counselling alone. I have brought it up a few times throughout our marriage and he has always said not to go. I don’t want a counsellor to tell me how much of an idiot I am or that my marriage and life is a sham. 

He hasn’t said that he wants a divorce but he isn’t doing anything to prevent it. He has no interest in me or trying to save our marriage, or proceeding with divorce. He has never said that he was disgusted that I slept with two other men. I don’t want him to be disgusted by me…  It’s around the time that our problems took the fast track to complete ****, so maybe he does think I’m disgusting… We have never used condoms since the first time we had sex. After that he wanted to, still does. He says it helps with keeping an erection because of the tightness of the condom. Maybe it’s related, maybe not. I don’t want my husband to think of me as disgusting… That makes me start to feel that way about myself. 

My husband didn’t search for me. For the summer I was working in the office that he works in. We met through work and he flirted with me but didn’t jump into anything right away. It was a slow build up to intimacy and a relationship/marriage. Getting pregnant wasn’t planned. Neither of us wanted me to get pregnant but we didn’t use protection and it only takes one time. I wasn’t expecting sex to happen, I had never had sex and wasn’t on birth control, and we had sex without protection. If that didn’t happen, I very well may not be sitting here right now. We married, we were happy and we had our other 3 kids back to back. He wanted another but I didn’t get pregnant again and never have. He didn’t want to have testing done or fertility treatments, just let it be and we’d be happy either way. We haven’t used any type of protection ever. If he is cheating then he is risking my health and who knows what I could have… We have been married for 19 years, but we’ve also been happy for 17 of those.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'm with your husband on the first part. A 19 year old has no business shacking up with her bf in my view. As for studying something that's a waste of time or money, I would at least get her to consider the implications of studying archaeology or what not and show me what her future plans are. On the other hand, if I'm convinced the kid has a "gift" then I would have no problem supporting such a choice.

In fact I almost ended my marriage for this very reason. But I had some pretty good indication of how talented she was.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hopels,

You are not disgusting. Please do not take that post to heart. 

Sometimes, when men are caught cheating or want to cheat, they will talk their wife into having some sort of sexual encounter with another man. What it does for them is that it then gives the man something that he can throw in his wife's face. You say that if you bring up his cheating, he throws your encounters at you. That's how it works. 

This way he can now feel vindicated in his cheating. The two of you are equal in his eyes. 

Didn't you say that he stated that you should not have even been curious about other men? It's ridiculous for a man who cheats to throw that out at their wife. Just about every human is curious about sex with other people. That's why men look at good looking women. And women do that with men all the time, too. 

You are going to have to find a way to stand up to him and shut him down when he brings up your encounters because he encouraged them.

Since you married a much older man at a very young age, I think you are used to letting him have the power in the relationship. This has to change. It has to turn into a relationship of equals now. And this little battle field is a good one to start that with.

When he says something like he does not care if you got out and have sex with other men, maybe you could just look him in the eyes and forcefully tell him that his words are nonsense and you know it. That he needs to just stop acting like that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hopels said:


> He doesn’t want to go to marriage counselling but he also doesn’t want me to go to counselling alone. I have brought it up a few times throughout our marriage and he has always said not to go.


hopels, that is exactly WHY you must go to a counselor. After I'd been married about 20 years and was extremely depressed for being married to a controlling older man, I went and got antidepressants. But he wanted me to stop taking them. Said they shamed HIM. I was weak and dumb and stopped because he made me feel so bad I did what he said just to get him to stop. It took another miserable 10 years before I could get up the nerve to go back for help again.

What you describe is controlling behavior. Please look it up.



> I don’t want a counselor to tell me how much of an idiot I am or that my marriage and life is a sham.


 You haven't been to a counselor, right? You are making big assumptions about what's going to happen there. Most therapists will NEVER tell you anything - they will ask you questions, point out things, ask you what you feel about them...help you come to your own conclusions.

The way you talk, I hear a lot of shame in there. Don't know if it's FOO-based or created by 20 years with your husband. But it's not healthy.

One of the most common things that happens when a woman marries an older man when she's only 18 or 19 is that the woman never learns how to be...herself. Everything you've known since you became an adult has been based off of, tainted by, or adjusted by your husband and your relationship with him. That's not always a bad thing. But given y'all's relationship and all the family stuff, it's a fair bet that you would benefit from learning how to be less dependent on him - emotionally and financially. 

And that's where a therapist comes in. Not to tell you to leave him or to shame you or to pick apart your marriage. A therapist will help you start learning who YOU are amidst all that's going on. She'll help you find strength you never knew you had. She'll help you equalize your marriage so that you have just as much say as him. She'll help you see what a healthy marriage should look like so you can decide for yourself what you want and need. She'll help you in a million ways.

Please find a counselor. Nobody's telling you to leave him or run away or anything. Just find yourself.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You don't need his permission OR approval to go to IC. You just go. This is for your wellbeing. 

Book an appointment today.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Read back through all of your posts and count up all of the statements where you are doing what he says or you are not doing something that you want to do or believe you should do but you don't do it because he says not to. 

This is what people mean when they talk about his controlling and manipulative behavior. This is what happens when 33 year old men impregnate and marry 18 year old girls. You basically went from your father's house to your surrogate father's house. You never grew up and you never forged a life or your own or followed your own compass. 

You say you had 17 'good' years. Were they 'good' because you did what you were told and were a good Wife Applience and didn't ask anything of him? 

There is a difference between true good and lack of conflict. Lack of conflict just means someone is doing what they are told and not questioning the status quo. 

Tunera is right above, a counselor will not call you an idiot or chew you out for anything. A counselor will ask questions to find out what is going on and allow you to determine your own conclusions based on your own needs. 

That is why your H does not want you to go and it is why your are afraid to go on your own. 

But as others have stated, it is why you NEED to go.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My H didn't want me to go to therapy, either. Thank God my first one was at work, so I didn't have to 'ask permission' to go from home. I probably never would have gone. 

My H is a good man, too, as I'm sure yours is. He's just insecure, afraid of being called out and found wanting. That's why such men become controlling - they're scared to death you'll realize you COULD get better than them, so they try really really hard to cocoon you, shuttle you away from your family and friends, so they aren't whispering in your ear to leave them.

It took my husband about 20 years before he started realizing I wasn't going to leave him and he stopped being so controlling. Of course, by then, the main reason I didn't leave him is that I'd been mentally browbeaten so much that I was terrified of how much of a fuss he'd make if I tried, that he'd make my life (and our child's) miserable. The second reason I didn't leave is that he had our money so messed up I couldn't afford to. 

BOTH issues my therapist worked on with me so that I could make a decision to stay or not or the RIGHT reasons, instead of out of fear or being dependent on him. You'll be amazed how much clearer your thinking will become once you aren't beholden to him. 

Something else to remember. This happens in almost EVERY instance of a younger woman marrying an older man. At 18 or 19, you're still very much not fully matured. The brain doesn't stop growing and changing until around age 25. I watched my DD26 change continuously over the years between 17 and 25. What she did at 18 she would never do now. Because she's maturing, having more experience, has lived on her own, doesn't need another person to complete her or to pay her way. 

Anyway, such young women DO keep maturing and changing and gaining experience. When they marry at 18 or 20, they still are subconsciously looking for a father figure to protect them, shield them, guide them - even if they aren't aware. That relationship WORKS at that age. But then she keeps on changing and, by 30 or so, she's starting to feel more self-assured, more capable, and doesn't need her husband to fill a father role anymore. Some women chafe at the restrictions that once seemed comforting. 

So the relationship starts to change. Now, read back to what some have said, about why an older man would be attracted to a younger woman. You appealed to him back then, back when you were too immature to question what he did. His insecurity drove him to date you (and to cheat, probably). But now that you're a fully grown woman, you no longer idolize him, you now question him, you call him on the carpet for what he did. Now, you're not soothing his fragile ego because you no longer adore him.

So, odds are, that's not going to come back, his desire for you. Not unless HE gets into therapy and works through his own insecurities and comes out the other end knowing he can have a healthy ADULT relationship with you that's amazing. 

But if he's refusing to go, the best thing you can do is go yourself and start learning how you can change things for a better relationship.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

turnera said:


> My H didn't want me to go to therapy, either. Thank God my first one was at work, so I didn't have to 'ask permission' to go from home. I probably never would have gone.
> 
> My H is a good man, too, as I'm sure yours is. He's just insecure, afraid of being called out and found wanting. That's why such men become controlling - they're scared to death you'll realize you COULD get better than them, so they try really really hard to cocoon you, shuttle you away from your family and friends, so they aren't whispering in your ear to leave them.
> 
> ...



I am quoting Tunera's post so that you have to read it twice.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

hopels said:


> He had a sexual affair with a work colleague last March and April. He ended the affair and we have been trying to put it past us. It may be controversial but he allowed me to go out with and have sex with another man. Prior to that my husband was the only man I had been intimate with. I did that twice, neither time bothered my husband which bothered me. I wanted him to care, be jealous, hurt. He recently said I could do it again if I wanted. I DON’T want that!





hopels said:


> I'm 37. My husband is 52.


Well it's fairly obvious, to me anyway, you were nothing but a trophy wife to him. I mean come on.

Why else do you think a 33 yo dates an 18 yo? What the hell did you think you two had in common???

I bet you had a slamming body but now age has taken its toll. What you brought to the table is now gone.

He's only going to continue to cheat on you because his commitment to you was purely superficial.

He wants an open marriage basically to continue feeding his ego. You don't do it for him anymore.

If this isn't the life you want then leave. You are FAR more invested in this relationship than he is. 

As long as the status quo remains, he will retain the power. What you need to retain is a divorce lawyer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BetrayedDad said:


> . You are FAR more invested in this relationship than he is.


This statement is very true. 

His primary investment is that he is still in the house.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> But if he's refusing to go, the best thing you can do is go yourself and start learning how you can change things for a better relationship.


Tunera is right. You do not need his permission to go to counseling. You are an adult woman. In your marriage you are equals. You do what you want to do.


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