# Extinction burst from BPD...concerned how to handle



## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

So - learning about these.

As i am absolutely dealing with these in ever increasing frequency.
In fact, I have dealt with these for many many years.
Chalked it up to HIGH emotions of my wife.
BUT - in recent years these have gotten more frequent and far more vile.

Being a "Mr.nice guy"...and having been raised in a situation that makes me a codependent expert practitioner...my default behavor was to such INTO the fire. Try and calm, rationalize, solve, explain, fix...and the MOST worse of all...take ON the blame...and apologize.
So you can imagine the reinforcement that I had set up for this behavior.
SO - here is the question.
I have read on the tools- how to attempt to stop MY role in this circle/cycle.

My worry is - i have gleaned that in her life she ALWAYS found someone to join in this circle. It is almost as though she NEEDS this person to exterminate burst AT.

Our marriage is rocky. My want/goal ...is to KEEP it.
I worry that if i stop being in the vicinity of these bursts - she may in fact find someone else that will/can be.

Has anyone had any experience with successfully ending the cylce of conflict WITHOUT losing their SO in the process?
It does seem as though if done right - and the BPD finds the ability ot calm down/and at least a small amount of self sooth...things can get far better in the marriage.
But I also read they RESIST that largely at first.

Has anyone had a successful experience in doing this - and can they help with tips and showcase failures?

Thank you


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

SO - I deleted the original thread because I inadvertently titles it 
EXTERMINATION burst...
(must have been an incredible subconscious glitch...;-)

That said - a tremendously clear and thoughtful reply appeared by Anon Pink that I wanted to remain - so I am posting the copy here:




Today, 09:47 AM 

Anon Pink 
Member



Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,050 Re: BPD extermination bursts 
________________________________________
I don't have any experience in directly dealing with this. But I am well familiar with the concept of behavior extinction bursts....in dogs. yeah I know your wife isn't a dog but the principals remain.

However, your worry is that she will find someone else to rage at if she can no longer rage at you. That may be a valid worry but I'd like to point out that this very worry of your reveals your own extinction burst; that of codependency and enabling.

Look at it like this. If you won't be your wife's emotional punching bag, she will find someone else to punch? 

Now read that over again. Can you see the thinking error?

A spouse who allows abuse on the basis of preventing infidelity?
Allowing yourself to be abused so your wife won't replace you with someone else who will?

Do you really want to be that guy?

Secondarily, while it is possible your wife may seek another partner to abuse and rage at, it is unlikely because she is attached to you. What do you do during her rages and outbursts? Considering her largest trigger is abandonment, how does your response to her outbursts calm her abandonment fears while not enabling?

Can you listen to her emotional vomiting calmly and dispassionately? Can you gently stand up for yourself without escalating the confrontation? Do you leave the room or do you stay in the room? If you leave the room what does she do?

I know you want to keep your wife and marriage together and while I applaud that, I wonder if that goal could be adjusted or amended so that your own emotional health and minimal standard of behavior come first?


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

AND HERE IS MY REPLY TO ANON PINK:


Phew.

Incredibly well written - and on target.
(as painful as that is to read the accuracy and look in that mirror)

Yes, I get the pathetic in all that.
It does not make me look or feel very good.
I am actually going a bit supportive on myself - as I realize that I have been beaten down (or worn down ) in the face of some pretty BSC behavior. It has been like water torture (or boiling frog) in that it has increased incrementally for a while now.

But NO - I do not want to be that guy.

In fact - years ago (and today in all my other parts of life) I am quite far from anything resembling that guy.

I really do not approach my attempts at calming the situation down or logical discussions in an attempt to avoid her ending this and finding the person to be codependent.

I just have felt that when i DO ...make attempts to CHANGE the way i react(or not react) it DOES result in her UPPING the rage and tone tenor of these extermination bursts...and many times...it works to in fact draw me in.

The times I am "successful" of NOT getting drawn in..THEN I am faced with "I am not supportive".."I dont care"...etc..etc..

So - I have gotten to a point where I fear that IF I am successful of getgin OFF the circle...she will see that as abandonment...and her salve to that...is finding someone to join in on the merry go round other than me...
(and yes...I do see the pathetic conflict in that thinking)

I want to say - how much I appreciate your taking the time to write a brilliant response. Thank you.

Exhausted by it all....;-)


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And I was in the process of another post but lost it when I hit submit. Ah very humbling to work on a reply you think is good only to have it go off into some deep chasm where all lost posts go... 

So, you're welcome! Don't beat yourself up. You've lived in crazy town for too long and you've acclimated to the way we do things in crazy town.

I'm going to suggest something you may not be ready for, but I think you should read this and tuck it away for when you might be ready.

The frog in the boiling pot is an apt metaphor. Can such a frog reach out of the pot and turn down the heating element? Can the frog swim around real fast and cool the boiling water? Can the frog but it's head against the side of the pot causing the pot to move every so slowly off of the heating element?

You've taken the train to crazy town, unknowingly and unwittingly, and while there you jumped into a nice warm bath.

Now you have to unlearn everything you thought you knew. You also have to regain all the emotional strength you once had but slowly lost as a result of partnering with someone with BPD. This takes damn near Herculean effort and is almost impossible to do while still in the pot in crazy town.

In crazy town you are surrounded by toxic fumes that zap your strength and health. If your wife is currently in treatment, and is working this treatment, for her BPD it may be that as you try to regain your health and strength, she is also learning to NOT add to the toxicity.

But if she is NOT in treatment and is resistant to therapy, or is a low functioning BPD, I'm afraid for your chances of successfully regaining your health and strength.

The frog's best chance of survival is to leap out of the pot and leave crazy town.


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

Great illustrations.
Great points.

Yes...I am that frog.
I fact - the frog metaphor was given to me by a therapist friend of mine. She was VERY concerned.

I a man (frog) who can take a very high temperature. Not bragging as most of the reason is being raised in a very HOT environment.

So ...resilient? Yes. Strong? Yes.

Does it help in this circumstance? NO.

I am fully aware of the last few paragarphs and the difficulty of the frog doing anything to reduce the heat and help change the environment in the pot.

NO..she is NOT in any form of assist to help her BPD.
She has BLAMED ME for anything and everything.INCLUDING anything that she had a vague sense is off about herself.

She is from a hyper classic "closed family system"...whereby EVERYONE else is wrong...they are right.
EVERYONE ELSE is to blame...they are perfect.

I think she agonizes a bit with that ...as she is coming to terms later in life with just how messed up her parents and family of origin was/is.

We went to a series of TOP counselors...even at my wifes urging (albeit because she saw ME as the probelm..and wanted someone to "set me straight")
What occurred was her getting FURIOUS at the therapist...in EACH of the cases...calling them "quacks" ...and not returning.

So - the chance that she will engage in meaningful theraputic help for BPD is very very low.
She will cut and run first.

Which is why my concern for true introspective change here is additionally concerning. She REFUSES to even engage in productive dialog between us. (and she does that in a 4 yr old manner. Usually with an aggressive slight of hand. "please lets discuss the need to eat vegetables"results in throwing plate on floor and existing the room)

SO yes...read the last sentence you typed. Wrrestle with that often. 
Ok so at the risk of sounding (pick one) Pathetic. Hopeless. Blind. Denial. ...etc...etc..

I DO love her. I DO want to keep our family together. 

So the last sentence - is not my top choice at all.

But of course.....there is the frog..and the boiling water....


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes. Frog, water, hot, you.

You don't have to make any decisions right now.

If you're not already in therapy, not marriage counseling, I urge you to find a PhD level therapist. You need back up while you fully exit denial and see, really see, everything around you.

Yes, it's gonna hurt and I'm sorry for that.


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

Understand.
Denial another of my strong suits I guess.

Keep waiting for water to get cooler.
I think that only way that happens is if I change (let go of) what I would hope and want in my life, home, marriage.

Strangely, I think my BPDw is actually realizing if not verbalizing that in not exactly those words.

When I try to discuss any of this with her...how we can improve things, the positives we can move toward, the appreciation we can show to one another, the kindness,etc...
She actually gets "ANGRY" and takes it as a criticism

I want to thank you for being direct and honest..

This frog probably needs a smack on the head...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

nightmoves8 said:


> Understand.
> Denial another of my strong suits I guess.
> 
> Keep waiting for water to get cooler.
> ...


Naw, you'll be okay little frog. 

Life has already banged and bruised you and now you're starting on a journey that once begun can't be undone. Once you take a few steps, you can't unlearn the healthier things you're learning. You can't go backwards, you can only stand still or move forward. That's the fearsome beauty of a healing journey! It's full of fear, no doubt, so it's okay to stand still for a time and let yourself acclimate. You'll know when it's time to take another step.


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

LOL...
Thanks

So - have a question.

MOST of the opinions here and on other sites are that without therapeutic intervention the chance for real improvment by one who is BPD is unlikely.

A number equations always include the disclaimer "you (the non-BPD) need to search within to see if you can live with this in your life.

SO my question is - if I undertake the journey, is it possible that alone can make things better and give us a better chance/marriage?

I know that I should be more selfish...but really am built to try and make this work.
Not suggesting you or anyone can predict. Just wondering if the journey can/or has reportedly resulted in that outcome.

Ive often wondered WHY my wife is not as interested in goign on that journey herself. I always took it as a sign I, or our marriage, is just not that worth it. (ouch).

But maybe (as has been suggested by many others) she actually knows/fears that she has a lot of "stuff" , and the nature of who she is and BPD and a real lack of self...makes her impossible to go into the dark journey.

Thoughts?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That's far too complicated to answer.

If you were my son, and those were my grandchildren, I would move hell and high water to get you away from that marriage. All through it I would be fully aware that this was not really my call, but when it comes to children and their protection, sometimes the end justifies the means...or so I'd tell myself.

There are members here who have BPD and are really working hard to learn to be healthier, more self aware and hold themselves more accountable. There are two members that I know of who remain married to their untreated BPDw, one of whom is just waiting till his daughters graduate and then he will leave, the other is one of those RARE men who is impervious to his wife's emotional melt downs and accusations, and he has really good back up help with his family. He has also set up some excellent boundaries with immediate consequences AND his wife is self aware enough at times that she can tell him how she was triggered into a melt down. I'll try to find his thread and link it here. It's a very difficult and painful road. 

You don't have to make any decisions right now but it's always good to keep your eyes open.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Found it! This is good reading to see what it's like to try to live with a no treated BPDw while raising kids.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/69827-eh.html


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you....

Boiled Frog


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

nightmoves8 said:


> When I try to discuss any of this with her...how we can improve things, the positives we can move toward, the appreciation we can show to one another, the kindness,etc...
> She actually gets "ANGRY" and takes it as a criticism


Been there.


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