# Resolving the Source of a Nice Guy



## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

I decided to start a new thread based on my own findings into my psyche and to ask how others have resolved their issues to reach true "Man up" status. I do realize for most this is quite personal but maybe some general coping techniques we could all share

Thanks to this forum and some great advice by MEM,Conrad, Alpha and others I've read NMMNG and NUTS books and Bradshaw's homecoming audio book. I realize now I was molded into the nice guy based on not having my needs met as a child. No ill feelings towards my mother who was abandoned by my alcoholic father so I now understand what happened. And I am starting to realize there is nothing wrong with me I just didn't get certain things I needed growing up.

I've also engaged a counselor to help with this also. I'm doing things for myself and do feel much better. It's been about a 1000% better from the depressed emotional child I was a few months ago. I'll be honest in some aspects I am still more acting the part rather than truly feeling it yet.

Based on what I've read and heard I won't truly Man-up until I resolve these issues. So what have others found useful. Is it merly a course of doing for yourself, talking about it, or some other methods.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bill,

When you reach the destination, it won't be necessary to suppress the "nice guy urge". It will be extinguished.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

For a lot of guys here, the journey starts with a goal of recovering a faltering, valued, relationship. A spouse, a girlfriend no longer finds us attractive, has lost respect ... or worst case has gone looking for what she finds lacking, in someone else.

I would suspect that for many men struggling to rediscover themselves, and reinforce, or put firm boundaries in place, that the 'source' is probably quite clear.

Being able to acknowledge the source is important. I think depending upon the circumstances, those issues may or may not need to be addressed - presuming they stretch back into childhood.

Mine certainly did. I wanted approval. I discovered at a very early age that I could get the approval I was looking for by being good, being helpful, kind, performing well. The bulk of such approval came from women. My mother, teachers etc. 

That was all I needed. Just to recognize the source.

As an adult, I don't doubt that implementing some of the changes that are required can be very challenging - as they are in utter contradiction to what has been your 'normal' behavior.

For those that pull this off, ultimately whether you win or lose the girl, doesn't matter. What you gain is much more important. It's game changing ... for yourself.

Recognizing that the only person's approval that you need is your own.

Being firm, honest, accountable ... having a code of conduct for yourself, and what you will tolerate or not tolerate from others is powerful, and as a man, very, very necessary.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Increasingly necessary in an age filled with mixed and contradictory messages.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Pitch perfect. 

I will add: A good partner is aligned with your goals and values. This creates an emotional "stereo" effect. When you do "good" your inner voice, and your partners voice sing to you. When you screw up, they screech at you. 

Yesterday I "coached" my W on a business situation. It was sincere and useful feedback for her (my inner voice was singing). Her response: She thanked me twice and completely agreed with the feedback. 

Of course - courtesy of my other thread you may know that she is "coaching me" at the moment as well. 



Deejo said:


> For a lot of guys here, the journey starts with a goal of recovering a faltering, valued, relationship. A spouse, a girlfriend no longer finds us attractive, has lost respect ... or worst case has gone looking for what she finds lacking, in someone else.
> 
> I would suspect that for many men struggling to rediscover themselves, and reinforce, or put firm boundaries in place, that the 'source' is probably quite clear.
> 
> ...


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks as always, I do feel better simply knowing the source and where things went wrong. The trick is now the re-programing that is neccesary. I do feel good doing for myself and more importantly standing up what I believe in no matter who it is. Like others I've always been a shy , conflict avoiding people pleaser (esp to women). I guess is there some realization that just clicks in or it is just a gradual process that takes place over time as you step up in areas where you normally would hide.

Also I struggle at this point as to what my needs are, because quite frankly I never had any - LOL . But I've been told this is a process as well to discover yourself and could take some time.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Going to post something that no doubt could very easily be misinterpreted.

But ... it was key in my transition, and I think it is very important for the classic 'Nice Guy'.

I no longer hold women in the regard that I once did. To be clear, I have not diminished my admiration or respect for women, I have simply adjusted it into something far more realistic. More ... equal.

They are equally wrong, flawed, callous, insensitive, and utterly confused. 

They are equally accountable, responsible and culpable for all that goes right, or wrong in a relationship.

My old perspective, honestly put them above all of those things. Seriously. I was prepared to hand over my duty, sense of responsibility, happiness, fulfillment, pride and ego ... basically I let my partner define who I was and how I felt ... about the relationship and myself.

And that is quite simply, deeply flawed, extraordinarily limiting ... and unfair to the woman in your life.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Going to post something that no doubt could very easily be misinterpreted.
> 
> But ... it was key in my transition, and I think it is very important for the classic 'Nice Guy'.
> 
> ...



I think you're spot on. I could (and have) write voluminously on why our culture did this to us now (if you wanna get technical, it goes back to the conversion to masculine radical monotheism and the removal of the divine feminine archetype from our daily lives, but it's pretty boring to a layman) but the fact is that we were brought up to be in awe of women without being taught how fallible they could be. Our false expectations of them leads to our putting femininity up on a pedestal, emotionally, which places women in a difficult position and hopelessly complicates our own.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

IanIronwood said:


> the fact is that we were brought up to be in awe of women without being taught how fallible they could be. Our false expectations of them leads to our putting femininity up on a pedestal, emotionally, which places women in a difficult position and hopelessly complicates our own.


Bingo. That, is in fact, 'The Source'.

Remove the pedestal and realign with the straightforward concepts of mutual admiration, respect and courtesy, and we're good.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Deejo gets it right. It's all about *accountability*.


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## BlackMedicine357 (Jan 18, 2011)

Well said Deejo! 

I have been digging this truth out in my journey recently also.

The 'Goddess on the Pedestal" is a tyrant. But she only gets put there by the man. Worshiping that goddess to the extent that who we are is by determined by her enslaves us.

As nice guy sub-servients, we do both us and our mates injustice. 

I'm learning that I married my equal or match. Not my superior, not my goddess. 

Your "equally" statements above frame the relationship picture correctly.

Black


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

As a woman, and a feminist, I thank you for taking us off the damn pedestal!!! That will be the downfall of patriarchy.

This thread brings a tear of happiness to my eye.

I am so happy for you guys. I frickin' love this!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

That notable female compassion just bleeding through.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't think I could post anything different than what was already said. I too put the woman on the pedestal. I too difined myself with her approval ratings. And, yes, I too began my journey with the realization of a failed relationship. I am a much stronger person for it now. Feels like I'm actually alive again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Well... Can't say anything else other than has been said by the sages around here.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

I certainly don't want to be seen as infalible... WAY too much pressure!!!!


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

Conrad said:


> That notable female compassion just bleeding through.


Not sure your tone here, but I was being quite sincere in my comment.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

I very much agree with all of the above. I think it started for me being raised only by my mother who needed to work evening and nights as a waitress just to make ends meet. I know I didn't have the support system I needed as a child and was left alone quite a bit. In retrospect I realize that she wasn't a happy person due to the circumstances and I learned to please and supress my needs not to bother her. Your mother is probably one of the most powerful women in your life when you are a child. I think now just understanding this has helped me tremendously.

Fast forward to today and I also have learned my W isn't someone I have to caretake for. Yes I will be her emotional / financial support but as her husband who is equal and has his own needs too. In addition I realize It is my job to lead our family through thick and thin and this was a role my W had and is more than capable of, but doesn't want it because it makes her feel alone.

Guess I was looking for the quick fix (LOL) and hoping for some wonder realization that would just snap m out of everything ok. All of this has been very enlighten fairlly quickly but I do realize I will need to struggle with myself from time to time to get where I want to be.


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

There are no quick fixes and it will take a long time to recover. I have realized this after reading NMMNG about 2 months ago (and the NUTs book too). I thought I could just put it all in place overnight, but it's not working that way. There should be a 12 step program for recovering nice guys. One thing that I differ from the book is men's support groups. I don't think they are useful. I think men like to do things together. Sports is the big one, whether you watch or play. Other hobbies can be a binding force, especially if they are dominated by men. I used to have all that and let it go when I got married.

I'm still trying to find my root cause, but I think it had to do with my mother being the Alpha of the family and my father was checked out emotionally (they are divorced 25 years ago and he is still checked out). When I was in my 20s and early 30s I was less of Nice Guy, but as I got older it got worse. I had always had more female friends than male friends, but at the same time I didn't have too much problems dating. But early on in my marriage I just let my wife lead and that was my downfall. Trying to work through this affair thing, but I think it's possible with time that we can work through it, maybe... I have taken my wife off the pedestal. I speak my mind. I'm am not afraid of her anymore. I am not seeking approval for my actions. I'm trying to detach from her as quickly as I can and lead my own life.



bill2011 said:


> I very much agree with all of the above. I think it started for me being raised only by my mother who needed to work evening and nights as a waitress just to make ends meet. I know I didn't have the support system I needed as a child and was left alone quite a bit. In retrospect I realize that she wasn't a happy person due to the circumstances and I learned to please and supress my needs not to bother her. Your mother is probably one of the most powerful women in your life when you are a child. I think now just understanding this has helped me tremendously.
> 
> Fast forward to today and I also have learned my W isn't someone I have to caretake for. Yes I will be her emotional / financial support but as her husband who is equal and has his own needs too. In addition I realize It is my job to lead our family through thick and thin and this was a role my W had and is more than capable of, but doesn't want it because it makes her feel alone.
> 
> Guess I was looking for the quick fix (LOL) and hoping for some wonder realization that would just snap m out of everything ok. All of this has been very enlighten fairlly quickly but I do realize I will need to struggle with myself from time to time to get where I want to be.


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## MardiGrasMambo (Mar 5, 2011)

Hello, guys. I'm new here and everything in this post is resonating with me as well. I am a nice guy who failed at a first marriage because I let the ex-wife treat me like a doormat. Now, I'm remarried and I don't want to go down that road again. I'm definitely gonna check out the NMMNG book and see if it can help me maintain my current marriage better. Shades of my old behavior patterns are creeping in and I've even noticed wife urging me to be more of a man. Hell, I've even told wifey things like "Sometimes I feel like I don't deserve you." Seems like I'll have to do some digging to find the root cause of this behavior.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MardiGrasMambo said:


> Hello, guys. I'm new here and everything in this post is resonating with me as well. I am a nice guy who failed at a first marriage because I let the ex-wife treat me like a doormat. Now, I'm remarried and I don't want to go down that road again. I'm definitely gonna check out the NMMNG book and see if it can help me maintain my current marriage better. Shades of my old behavior patterns are creeping in and I've even noticed wife urging me to be more of a man. Hell, I've even told wifey things like "Sometimes I feel like I don't deserve you." Seems like I'll have to do some digging to find the root cause of this behavior.


Mambo,

Welcome aboard.

While you wait for the book, here's a few links you'll find worthwhile.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

I wish you well.


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## Zammo (Aug 9, 2010)

As to the source of the NiceGuy complex, I read this post on a blog:

Mom Was Wrong – A Personal Narrative « The Private Man

It makes sense.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

MardiGrasMambo said:


> Hello, guys. I'm new here and everything in this post is resonating with me as well. I am a nice guy who failed at a first marriage because I let the ex-wife treat me like a doormat. Now, I'm remarried and I don't want to go down that road again. I'm definitely gonna check out the NMMNG book and see if it can help me maintain my current marriage better. Shades of my old behavior patterns are creeping in and I've even noticed wife urging me to be more of a man. Hell, I've even told wifey things like "Sometimes I feel like I don't deserve you." Seems like I'll have to do some digging to find the root cause of this behavior.


AS a woman... I will tell ya, alpha or not, saying that sometimes you feel like you don't deserve her is good thing to say in a good moment. To me anyway, it is a beautiful compliment, but one that should be used sparingly


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