# Weird question about men are from mars, women are from venus…



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

So, in this book the author is (I’ve only gotten through the first 100 pages or so) asserting that men are “this way” and that women are “that way” and this is what happens. In a general perspective, I think this would be helpful. However, I find it odd that I’m identifying more with the female side, than the man side. Not all inclusive, but a lot of points where the author suggests that men are “this” I find myself saying that I’m nothing like that. I also look at the interaction between my spouse and I, and I find that she is probably more geared towards the feeling of the males, vs the females. 

Now this is kinda uncomfortable to admit, because I don’t fit the “man” mold, per se, but it breeds the question:

Does this book more look at Beta Behavior (Venutians) vs Alpha Behavior (Martians) rather than male vs. female? 

As I was reading along, I found it harder and harder to concentrate on the text because I was finding myself identifying less and less with how I’m supposed to feel and act. This made me ask the question… How can I identify more with the female side, and her with the male side? 

Parental upbringing perhaps? 
I was that last kid of 5, and by the time I entered high school, all my siblings had moved away. I got made fun of a lot during school, and so I didn’t have a lot of friends. I was a little bit of a recluse, but had a decent relationship with my mom during the time, as she was a stay at home mom. My dad, he wasn’t ever really around. He worked a lot, came home and relaxed but we didn’t spend a lot of “guy time” together I guess. So, I learned a lot from my mom and feelings and emotions and I was told early on that I was a very sensitive person, and was intuitive in understanding how others are feeling and thinking. All these things I thought were compliments until I started reading this book, realizing that, as weird as it sounds, I think more like a girl than a guy. (I am not having any gender issues by the way… none. Straight as a 2x4. )

Now, my wife. She was raised primarily by her mom as well, was an only child, but her mom was the provider of the house. They weren’t able to rely on her dad as he was a bum, and later on she learned that their being together was purely to keep things coherent with my wife, and that if it wasn’t for her, they wouldn’t be together. She is extremely close with her mom, and quite distant although pleasant with her dad. It’s as if the roles in that household had changed, and that her mom needed to take charge, have the alpha attitude. Instead of teaching my wife to be a “woman”, she taught her to think and act like the “man” in the house. 

I’m just trying to figure out the roles here… I am a nice guy… was taught to be when I was growing up. So I’m looking at my behaviors and feelings, and just wondering how am I really supposed to act and feel. 

I think this is a weird thought, and can be completely unfounded, but would appreciate any thoughts y’all have about this.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm not sure that "supposed to"means anything. There is no supposed to. You and your wife are who you are. Your goal should be to work with that and grow your relationship based on the people that you actually are, rather than how a writer categorizes behavior.


> As I was reading along, I found it harder and harder to concentrate on the text because I was finding myself identifying less and less with how I’m supposed to feel and act. This made me ask the question… How can I identify more with the female side, and her with the male side?


Work with who you and your wife are. If you recognize behavior patterns in your wife that more closely match with the way the writer describes male behavior patters, maybe you can learn something about how to deal with those patterns in your wife. 

You don't have to change who you are to fit some book's artificial construct...I suspect if you did change yourself, you and your wife would have a lot of conflicts because she was drawn to you as you ARE based on who she IS.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

It's very common to see this type of role reversal in marriages. I don't know if its more common now since more single moms are raising boys, but it feels that way. As you said you patterned your thinking after your Mom and so did your wife. However, the results were much different due to your circumstances. I have observed that strong women like your wife will eventually lose respect for their beta husband then the sexual attraction will be gone. The strong wife will keep the feminine acting man around because she enjoys the control and because he can provide such things as income or childcare. She will also complain about him incessantly. I have several of these relationships in my neigborhood and to be honest I don't respect the men very much. They seem to be OK with being openly disrespected. The funny thing is that these women will often verbally butt heads with peripheral Alpha males but are actually attracted to them like moths to a flame. However, they would never admit it to their girlfriends or husbands.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm not sure that "supposed to"means anything. There is no supposed to. You and your wife are who you are. Your goal should be to work with that and grow your relationship based on the people that you actually are, rather than how a writer categorizes behavior.
> 
> 
> Work with who you and your wife are. If you recognize behavior patterns in your wife that more closely match with the way the writer describes male behavior patters, maybe you can learn something about how to deal with those patterns in your wife.
> ...


i wasn't suggesting i need to change to fit the mold, but rather was trying to find out why i was having a hard time identifying with the male "perspective". it really made the whole thing rather confusing, but i agree with your point wholeheartedly. thanks for the input.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> It's very common to see this type of role reversal in marriages. I don't know if its more common now since more single moms are raising boys, but it feels that way. As you said you patterned your thinking after your Mom and so did your wife. However, the results were much different due to your circumstances. I have observed that strong women like your wife will eventually lose respect for their beta husband then the sexual attraction will be gone. The strong wife will keep the feminine acting man around because she enjoys the control and because he can provide such things as income or childcare. She will also complain about him incessantly. I have several of these relationships in my neigborhood and to be honest I don't respect the men very much. They seem to be OK with being openly disrespected. The funny thing is that these women will often verbally butt heads with peripheral Alpha males but are actually attracted to them like moths to a flame. However, they would never admit it to their girlfriends or husbands.


ever since coming to this board, this has been a main concern to me... i feel like this is what she is doing. but i want to believe it's not true, and/or things will change as i man up.


----------



## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> ever since coming to this board, this has been a main concern to me... i feel like this is what she is doing. but i want to believe it's not true, and/or things will change as i man up.


The older I get the more I believe it's true. I believe it enough to teach my sons that it's a biological truth. I still like the idea of having an equal partner that I respect but I now realize that the biology cannot be ignored. If you start to man up she may protest violently and your marriage may not survive. Many others have pointed out that you need to be willing to lose your marriage before you can effectively man up. This is the only way she will respect you enough to allow a role reversal. Its time to shake her up a bit.


----------



## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> So, in this book the author is (I’ve only gotten through the first 100 pages or so) asserting that men are “this way” and that women are “that way” and this is what happens. In a general perspective, I think this would be helpful. However, I find it odd that I’m identifying more with the female side, than the man side. Not all inclusive, but a lot of points where the author suggests that men are “this” I find myself saying that I’m nothing like that. I also look at the interaction between my spouse and I, and I find that she is probably more geared towards the feeling of the males, vs the females.
> 
> Now this is kinda uncomfortable to admit, because I don’t fit the “man” mold, per se, but it breeds the question:
> 
> Does this book more look at Beta Behavior (Venutians) vs Alpha Behavior (Martians) rather than male vs. female?


Try to remember that these books are marketed to people who have severe brain damage. For someone who has a normal not-broken brain, relationships are just applied common sense and proper communication (common sense only works if you have all of the information needed to make logical choices). I shouldn't call her fat because I know I would feel bad if she called me fat - common sense. When the book says "man," it really means man with brain damage. A man with brain damage will do stupid things that women commonly complain about such as refusing to admit they are wrong or refusing to take care of their own children. When it says "women," it means women with brain damage. Women with brain damage do the things men complain about such as being incapable of solving even the most basic technical problems and making 100 wrong assumptions based on 1 statement. 




> As I was reading along, I found it harder and harder to concentrate on the text because I was finding myself identifying less and less with how I’m supposed to feel and act. This made me ask the question… How can I identify more with the female side, and her with the male side?


Maybe you can't relate to the book because you don't have enough brain damage?



> So, I learned a lot from my mom and feelings and emotions and I was told early on that I was a very sensitive person, and was intuitive in understanding how others are feeling and thinking.


Try to remember that even dogs are capable of empathizing with humans. The dog knows when you're happy and he knows when you're sad. Yawning is known to be contagious between humans, but it's also contagious between humans and dogs. link. Being able to feel others is not a special skill. It just means you don't have brain damage.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ exactly. almost word for word. 

here's where i'm torn... i've been wrestling with myself on trying to determine who's causing what, and what I can do. I think i'm starting to realize that i'm not 100%, 75% or even 50% of the problem...

Beginning to grow a pair of balls ... That's not going to fly with her. Period. She's never seen that. Wouldn't know what to do with it. Doesn't matter. 

Another thing I noticed, is that needs and desires (including personalities) change during differing relationship dynamics. Part of why i feel like a little emotional girl is because of the situation that I'm in. If the relationship was different I may not feel like I identify as much with the "venutian" side. 

this is why i drew the comparison of beta vs alpha, much more than girl vs. guy... because people can float in those roles.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

ShawnD said:


> Try to remember that these books are marketed to people who have severe brain damage. For someone who has a normal not-broken brain, relationships are just applied common sense and proper communication (common sense only works if you have all of the information needed to make logical choices). I shouldn't call her fat because I know I would feel bad if she called me fat - common sense. When the book says "man," it really means man with brain damage. A man with brain damage will do stupid things that women commonly complain about such as refusing to admit they are wrong or refusing to take care of their own children. When it says "women," it means women with brain damage. Women with brain damage do the things men complain about such as being incapable of solving even the most basic technical problems and making 100 wrong assumptions based on 1 statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


phweww... i was nervous there that I was broken. :smthumbup: perhaps it is her that is broken in this case?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I think ALOT of this comes down to inborn Temperments... plus how we were raised, our beliefs, your struggling in school with peers, all of these things SHAPE & mold who we become. 

Have you ever taken any temperment tests >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ments-our-spouses-better-understand-them.html


My husband could identify with your thoughts in this.... he has never needed a "CAVE"-which I know that book talks alot about, never was the aggressive type, he is a sensitive man , has never cared to hang with the guys either ...

I started to read the book yrs ago and thought the same thing you was thinking >> my husband doesn't fit this at all!!

He was raised by a very loving Mom & Dad.... his Mom very mild tempered woman -very kind... he is similar. So was his dad though for the most part, but not at home much -working alot. He was the 3rd child, 1st son. Virtually zero dysfunction at home.

He did get picked on in school cause he was shy /introverted with glasses, he was never into sports, he knew he was too scrawny to beat anyone up, so he didn't push it & just tried to get along. None of this made him bitter, but It did take a toll on his self esteem, he was never overflowing in confidence, but yet he was not a crowd follower either, he did his own thing, didn't let what others thought get to him too much. Today he is very well respected for being someone of model character.... but we know how that goes in school. He told me this morning how the guys at work FIGHT over who is going to work with him, this happens all the time. I just laugh. 

I am accually more aggressive by nature over my husband. Probably like your wife, but I don't know your story.....

My upbringing was dysfunctional & it caused some chips on my shoulder , I was a teen with an attitude. When we met, we were very good for each other, I seemed to have what he didn't have, and he seemed to have what I was lacking. 

I say nothing wrong with a more Sensitive Man who doesn't fit perfectly in the BOX some of these books portray... so long as your wife RESPECTS you....sounds like this might have been lost somewhere down the line though... if you feel you need to MAN UP. 

Are you being who you are, or are you camouflaging for acceptance? - do YOU like yourself ?

When I asked my husband these questions, his answer always was ..that he liked himself. Even though he knows he is not like alot of other men.



> If you start to man up she may protest violently and your marriage may not survive. Many others have pointed out that you need to be willing to lose your marriage before you can effectively man up. This is the only way she will respect you enough to allow a role reversal. Its time to shake her up a bit.


 Pretty much, I believe this to be true. If she has gotten the upper hand at every turn & is walking on you, not appreciating, having a spirit of gratitude for the Good man you are....or what you have contributed to the marriage...welll she needs a walk up call. 

Not all Beta is Bad ...and all Alpha is good either... they both have their Good and their Bad.... This thread is enlightening - Atholks reply is very good at explaining.....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/23220-definitive-alpha-beta-thread.html


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ yes, i am happy with myself. yes she is walking on me. and i've been trying to figure out what i can do differently to get this relationship "normal". the answer is that it's not me. 

and your husband does sound like me... from you what you said. he does have a cave by the way, if he's like me. you probably just don't know about it because he's nice enough to either allow you in, or let you pull him out before he's ready. 

i'll check out that thread. thanks


----------

