# I'm a failure as a wife



## inadequate wife

I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


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## sokillme

how so?


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## oldshirt

or maybe he's an ass


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## Young at Heart

inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. *Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy.* He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


Clearly, you are upset and feeling down. 

Have you looked closely at yourself to figure out what (in your mind) you do right and what you could improve on?

For those things that you could improve on, do you want to improve yourself or not? Your husband can't change you, only you can change yourself and only if you want to change. That is the problem that most people have, is that they really don't want to change, feel it is of no use, feel it is beyond them, etc. It is not, if you really want to. You can loose weight, you can gain skills that will allow you to accomplish lots of things. I once say a course by a hotel executive in how to clean a room in about 1/10th the time most people take and to have the room spotless. 

Again, you have children, so you have probably been married for a few years. What was it about "you" that attracted your husband to you enough to marry you? Have you changed or has he been the only one to change?

Finally, have you talked about this with your H? I mean really talked about it not argued, not played that you are a victim and helpless, but communicated? If not try it and if it doesn't work seek marriage counseling, to at least figure out priorities on those things that you are willing to consider changing. You just might find out it is not as overwhelming as you think and that you are not as much as a failure as you claim.

Good luck.


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## inadequate wife

I don't do anything right. He use to think I was a good wife and he was happy with me. I can't keep up with what I should be able to do now and that makes me a bad wife and mom. He thinks marrying me was a mistake and I'm the wrong person for him because I can't handle my responsibilities. Now he's stuck with me. When he comes home from work he wants the house clean and dinner ready and I can't manage both. That's embarrassing. It's my job and I can't do it. I'm tired and overwhelmed and I shouldn't be. I should be able to handle being a mom and wife. My husband doesn't listen to anything that I say anymore, because I'm too stupid to say anything interesting to him. He doesn't notice when I talk to him anymore. It doesn't matter what it's about. I want to be a good wife. He tells me what I need to do and I can't do it. I try and it's still not enough. Today I had most of the house cleaned up and dinner ready but the kitchen was messy from cooking and that is all he cared about. The rest didn't matter because it wasn't perfect. I'm not perfect to him anymore. He's lost feelings for me because I suck and being a wife and mom. I clean up the house after our children are in bed but that's not good enough. It should be clean when he comes home. Some days I don't get it cleaned up because I'm so tired and that's not a valid reason. It's my fault I'm tired because I can't get our children to sleep through the night. He isn't attracted to me anymore because I weigh more than I did when we married and my body isn't the same after our children. He vowed to stay with me so he stays but that doesn't make me feel good. The least I can do is make him happy otherwise. He won't like looking at me or touching me but at least won't hate me.


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## jorgegene

Are you a bad wife and mother, or are his expectations unreasonable, hypercritical and preposterous?


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## inadequate wife

My husband isn't unreasonable. He works all day. I stay home. The least I should be able to do is manage the home.


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## sunsetmist

How many children? Ages? Your and husband's ages? Your other responsibilities?

His work hours? Has he always been this way? Do you belong to the National Union of Servants and Slaves?

Is this condemning voice your husbands or inside you?


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## inadequate wife

I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago. 

Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inadequate wife said:


> I don't do anything right. He use to think I was a good wife and he was happy with me. I can't keep up with what I should be able to do now and that makes me a bad wife and mom. He thinks marrying me was a mistake and I'm the wrong person for him because I can't handle my responsibilities. Now he's stuck with me. When he comes home from work he wants the house clean and dinner ready and I can't manage both. That's embarrassing. It's my job and I can't do it. I'm tired and overwhelmed and I shouldn't be. I should be able to handle being a mom and wife. My husband doesn't listen to anything that I say anymore, because I'm too stupid to say anything interesting to him. He doesn't notice when I talk to him anymore. It doesn't matter what it's about. I want to be a good wife. He tells me what I need to do and I can't do it. I try and it's still not enough. Today I had most of the house cleaned up and dinner ready but the kitchen was messy from cooking and that is all he cared about. The rest didn't matter because it wasn't perfect. I'm not perfect to him anymore. He's lost feelings for me because I suck and being a wife and mom. I clean up the house after our children are in bed but that's not good enough. It should be clean when he comes home. Some days I don't get it cleaned up because I'm so tired and that's not a valid reason. It's my fault I'm tired because I can't get our children to sleep through the night. He isn't attracted to me anymore because I weigh more than I did when we married and my body isn't the same after our children. He vowed to stay with me so he stays but that doesn't make me feel good. The least I can do is make him happy otherwise. He won't like looking at me or touching me but at least won't hate me.


Just so you know, keeping house, especially one with multiple children, can be more difficult... and far more taxing... than most jobs outside the home. Unless he's got an unusually difficult job, don't ever think you've got it "easy" relative to your husband. 

Does he help at all around the house or the kitchen or with the kids? Here's the thing. In addition to how challenging housekeeping is in itself, if there is only one housekeeper, she NEVER gets a day off. Meals must be prepared, kitchen cleaned, chores done, kids cared for, cleaned and put to bed every day. That will exhaust anyone.... let alone leave any time or energy to get ones figure back. 

If you're carrying this load solo, he's got zero grounds for complaint.

For most of our child rearing years, I was the sole breadwinner and I understood how important it was to give my wife a break... and to tell her how much I appreciated her efforts, not berate her for any perceived inadequacies.


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## sunsetmist

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


Gee. I think it is amazing that you have kids 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y and your husband doesn't touch/care for you--much. I'm guessing I know why you don't work outside the home. Sometimes, my meanness erupts--just can't help it--so sorry.


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> My husband isn't unreasonable. He works all day. I stay home. The least I should be able to do is manage the home.


{{{{HUGS}}}}

You are not a failure as a wife. You are having issues that can be addressed and fixed.

Your husband is being a very piss poor husband. Sure he goes to work. But all the rest of the time he is treating you horribly. I was married to a man who was like your husband. Being treated like that will destroy your sense of self, it will put you in a serious depression making it impossible for you to do things like clean house, cook etc. Depression also leads to weight gain.

Let's see if we can get you to a much better place.

First, could you share some info. 

How much weight have you gained? (this is just to get an idea of the work you need to do to take that weight off)

When did you start feeling like you cannot function (this is depression)? Was it right after a pregnancy? if not right after a pregnancy, what was going on in your life? Did something happen to trigger this? Did your husband start his angry snipping at you before this? Or did it start it after you were well into a depression?

Do you have any family or friends near you who can help you out and who you can socialize with?

I take it that you are a stay-at-home-mom (SAHM). What things do you do for yourself? Do you go for walks or go to a gym? Do you do any socializing on a regular basis?

You need to start building a support system. A good support system is one of the most important things that a person can do for themselves. Besides friends and family in your support system, you need to doctor and a counselor.

Your really need to see a doctor for your depression. While I'm not a doctor, from my experience you might want to talk to your doc about putting you on Wellbutrin. It's an anti-depressant that helps get rid of depression but it also increases your level of energy. And it sounds like you need more energy.

Then get a good individual counselor, you need someone to talk to who can help you figure out how to navigate what's going on in your life.


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## EleGirl

sunsetmist said:


> Gee. I think it is amazing that you have kids 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y and your husband doesn't touch/care for you--much. *I'm guessing I know why you don't work outside the home.* Sometimes, my meanness erupts--just can't help it--so sorry.


Please clarify what you mean by that.


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.


You have had 5 children in 7 years. No wonder you feel the way you do. You are not an amazon super woman, you are only a mere human. Geez.

What does your husband do to help around the house and with the kids?

Your husband has a 8 hour job with a long commute for a total of 12 hours a day. Your job is a 24 hour job. How much sleep do you get normally?


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## Adelais

What do YOU think about yourself in all the areas he criticizes? I don't mean 'are you perfect' but do you put forth effort and are you adequate?

It sounds like he has torn you down and that you don't have any self confidence.


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> My husband isn't unreasonable. He works all day. I stay home. The least I should be able to do is manage the home.


Your husband is unreasonable.

You are struggling for a very good reason, but instead of helping you he's brow beating you. That's unreasonable.


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## BioFury

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Just so you know, keeping house, especially one with multiple children, can be more difficult... and far more taxing... than most jobs outside the home. Unless he's got an unusually difficult job, don't ever think you've got it "easy" relative to your husband.


+1

OP, you're the one with the difficult and demanding job. When do you get to punch out for the evening? I venture to say it isn't 6 PM.

Your husband sounds like a grouchy bellyacher.


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## Adelais

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


It sounds like you need help: housekeeper, nanny or babysitter, help shopping, etc.

I had 4 children, all 2 or 3 years apart. I was busy from morning to the minute I went to sleep. My husband worked hard at work and at home too, and even so I wish I had been able to afford help of some sort or had parents who would have been willing to help.

My friends who have many children don't have perfectly clean houses....something has to give. But they have happy children and understanding helpful husbands.

Your husband needs another man with a large family to give him a 'what for' conversation and tell him to cool his jets and get busy helping as soon as he gets home or give you some $ to get help.


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. *I usually forget things he wants or things we need.* He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


That one is easy to solve. Put paper and pen somewhere that both you and he can easily access. I keep mine on the side of the fridge it looks like this - *Fridge note holder*

If your husband wants you to get something he can write it on the list himself.

You can add things to the list as they come up. For example, when I'm cooking, if I see that I'm about to run out of some spice or milk or whatever, I add it to the list.

Some people even keep lists in different rooms. For example one in the bathroom and the kids room so you can add things to the list when you notice. That way you have a shopping list to remind you what is needed.

Are you a member of a church?
..


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## tech-novelist

EleGirl said:


> That one is easy to solve. Put paper and pen somewhere that both you and he can easily access. I keep mine on the side of the fridge it looks like this - *Fridge note holder*
> 
> If your husband wants you to get something he can write it on the list himself.
> 
> You can add things to the list as they come up. For example, when I'm cooking, if I see that I'm about to run out of some spice or milk or whatever, I add it to the list.
> 
> Some people even keep lists in different rooms. For example one in the bathroom and the kids room so you can add things to the list when you notice. That way you have a shopping list to remind you what is needed.
> 
> Are you a member of a church?
> ..


I agree with the others who think your husband is being unreasonable. Five small children must be a tremendous lot of work to take care of.

As for the problem with forgetting to buy things, my wife and I also need a way to remind ourselves of things we need to do or get.

I have found that using the reminder feature on my iPhone is very helpful, but we have also used paper lists that we keep on the fridge or on a little clipboard on the passthrough between the kitchen and dining room.


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## EleGirl

I'm not trying to beat up on your husband. He might just be overwhelmed with small children too and the huge responsilbity he has and he's not handling it well. I know you love him.

My point is that you need to quit beating yourself up and realize that what you are stuggling with is not unusal. It's ok to be tired, over whelmed, etc. It's not ok for your hsubnad to talk to you the way he is. He's supposed to be supportive of you.


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## Adelais

You can buy cutely decorated long skinny pads of paper with a magnet on the back at TJ Max if there is one in your area. You put it on the refrigerator. Keep a Post-it pad and pen in your master bath, the laundry room and anywhere you spend time doing things and might think of something you need. Until I learned to do that, I don't know how many times I forgot what it was we needed once I left that room.

You can also buy a magnetic pencil/pen holder that also sticks to the refrigerator next to your pad of paper.

My husband and children have all learned to writes things on the refrigerator pad when we run out of something or if there is something special that they need. It saves having to take extra trips to the store.

We make smaller lists on the pad: <Grocery Store> <Cheapest vegetable store> <TJ Max> <Hardware Store> <Beauty Supply Store> etc. Everyone knows where we buy things the cheapest and if they don't know, they ask which store to put it under.

There are websites for organization for larger families. I homeschooled my children, and other homeschool moms have made available a lot of resources and ideas of how to manage the home while teaching children of all ages. Google "How to manage a large family and home" and "Raising Arrows." Raising Arrows is a Christian based site, and offers spiritual encouragement as well as practical advice on all the dynamics of large families: more laundry, more messes, larger grocery shopping trips, lots of ages, more cooking, more dishes, more, more, more!

You are blessed with all those children. It is hard to not lose your joy when you are overstressed. Your husband needs to get realistic, and stop harrassing you and tearing you down. He is not helping matters but making them worse. He needs to get informed and grow up regarding all the work you have dealing with the logistics of 5 young children.


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## sunsetmist

EleGirl said:


> Please clarify what you mean by that.


In her post she said,"I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. *I don't work.* My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both."

I'm thinking all she does is work with responsibilities like she mentions. I wanted to refute her idea that she doesn't work. I'm feeling unhappy with her husband right now.


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## EleGirl

I just thought of something else that might help you. 

Where I live here the Walmart has online shopping. When I do a large grocery shopping I do it online. Then when I pay I set a pickup time. Walmart has a specific area for people who do online grocery shopping. At the appointed time I just drive up and call in to let them know that I'm there. And a wonderful, cheery Walmart employee comes out and puts all the groceries in car for me. :grin2: I love it!

The Smith's grocery store near me also has pickup shopping and they are starting a service where you shop online and then they deliver your groceries to your house. 

About 10 years ago, when I had 3 children at home and worked a 60 hour a week job, there was a grocery story near me that had home delivery. I put in the order online and it would show up at my house. It cost $10 per deliver and was worth every penny. Then they sold the store and the company that bought them out stopped the delivery service.... sucks. But it was great while it lasted.

Find out if there are any grocery stores near you that offer online shopping with either you picking it up or them delivering it.

If you have to pick it up... .the schedule your pickup time when your husband is home. Then you can leave the children with him and go get your groceries. If there are a few things that you need to go into the store for, you will be able to run in quickly without 5 children in tow.


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## EleGirl

sunsetmist said:


> In her post she said,"I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. *I don't work.* My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both."
> 
> I'm thinking all she does is work with responsibilities like she mentions. I wanted to refute her idea that she doesn't work. I'm feeling unhappy with her husband right now.


Ok.. I completely misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying.


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## Adelais

YOU DO WORK! You just aren't paid for your work, lol.

Whenever I have to fill out a form, like a New Patient Form for a Dr. and when they ask my current profession, I say I work for free as a nutritionist, chef, organizer, manager, chauffer, planner, teacher, nurse, etc.

Don't let anyone tell you that you don't have a "real" job. Your job is the most important job in the world: to care for the physical and mental (also spiritual if you are spiritual) well being of children, so they will grow up to be productive members of society and perhaps leaders of the world.


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## sokillme

inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


That's pretty rough. Maybe you are just not compatible. Did he always feel this way or has it changed?


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## EleGirl

Another idea of something to do to mange your home/children ....

My mom had 8 children. I'm the 3rd oldest. What she did was to get us involve in the house chores very early. 4 and 5 year olds are old enough to start doing simple things like picking up toys and other things left around the house. They can dust and even do some minor sweeping. She made it fun and always gave us snacks after wards. 

I actually think it was her diabolical plan because as we got older, she mostly supervised us and did the laundry. We did everything else. LOL ... smart woman. 

I was 10 I was cooking dinner for the entire family and I thought it really fun. I used to experiment. and me and my older sisters did a lot of baking. 

When my children were 10, I taught them all how to do their own laundry. They did their clothing sheets and towels. After that I only had to do my own laundry and house hold items. My husband did his own laundry too.


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## inadequate wife

My husband hates when people say being a parent is the hardest job. He doesn’t believe that. 

He doesn’t help with the house. He shovels snow in the morning if there is any. We live in a snow belt. He helps me with our kids on Sunday’s for a few hours. We go out and do something as a family. I want him to help more but he doesn’t. 

Just because we have children doesn’t mean creating them was intimate. I don’t work because we don’t want someone else raising our children. Daycare is $1650/child here. It’s better to stay home with them. 

I weigh 140-145. 35-40 pounds more than I did when we married. I have been breastfeeding or dry nursing for 6 years straight. With each pregnancy I’ve gained and held onto a little bit more. I don’t eat very much. He compares me to other women who have had babies but you’d never know it from looking at them. Even without the weight gain my body is totally different than it was 7 years ago. 

I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. My husband is religious. I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted. My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that. My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway. My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly. 

I don’t have any friends. Even if I did I don’t have time to socialize. My husband won’t give me more than 10 minutes of alone time. He has hobbies. I’m not close with my family. My mom died when I was young and my dad isn’t in my life. I was raised by my aunt and her husband but we have a bad relationship. My husband is the only adult I talk to and he doesn’t really talk to me. I don’t do anything for myself because I don’t have time. I can’t even have a bath to relax because someone will wake up crying and my husband won’t help. He’ll give me 10 minutes and complains about that. If I go out of the house it is with the kids. It was easier when we had two children and they would nap in the stroller for an hour while I walked. 

3 of my children wake up throughout the night. Every 30 minutes to 2 hours. My husband doesn’t help at night. He sleeps on the couch most nights. He wakes me up for sex then goes and sleeps on the couch. That's TMI and I probably shouldn't say that.

We have a grocery list but he won’t write anything down on it and it’s my fault when I don’t know he ran out of something. I know that’s unfair. We have Alexa things in our house and he could say add milk to shopping list and it goes to my phone but he doesn’t do that either. I try and go shopping every few days because a big trip isn’t possible with the kids. We have two grocery stores here that do online pick up but my husband thinks it’s lazy. He thinks any sort of help is lazy and I should be able to handle what I’ve been given because you aren’t given anything you can’t handle. He says I’m ungrateful. 

I try and have my children help with age appropriate tasks but it takes longer and usually gets messier. I suck at parenting. My 4 year old won’t pick up anything. He destroys a room in 10 minutes. Except for my baby I try to get them all in the kitchen. Yesterday we made pizza and everyone but my baby got a pizza to make themselves. I’m going to go to the Raising Arrows website and read. 

I think I suck at being a wife and mom too. He is my husband and he thinks that. Somedays I want to lock myself in the bathroom and let my children destroy the house. I get frustrated too easily. I don’t enjoy being a mom anymore… I don’t look forward to anything. 

I feel like a horrible person and wife for talking badly about my husband. Our marriage is supposed to stay between us. He's a really good dad when we're in public, around his family or around his friends. It stops behind closed doors.


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## TBT

He's totally unreasonable,going by what you've posted. Don't know if your husband is under stress at work,but basically he works 8-4. At the same time,over the years with each additional child,your stress and time needed to manage five young ones can only have increased over the years. There doesn't appear that you have time to find your own identity as you seem to be tying it so closely to whatever he says.


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## Mr.Married

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


HOLY JESUS CHRIST !!! How in the world could you be expected to take care of that much! 5 very young kids and the perfect house...... your not super woman !!!!

Him: works 8 - 4

You: 0:01 - 24:00


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## EleGirl

Knowing what religion your husband follows would be helpful. Also knowing his country of origin. And were you of the same ethnicity as your husband?


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> My husband hates when people say being a parent is the hardest job. He doesn’t believe that.


But you know that he’s wrongs because of what you are living thorough. Have you ever had a job? 

There is no religion or law that says that what your husband believes is more valid than what you know. Your experience is valid. Raising one or two children is not all that hard. It’s important, but not hard. But having 5 very young children a very a LOT of work.

It would be interesting to see how he would fair if he was left with all that you do for a week.


inadequate wife said:


> He doesn’t help with the house. He shovels snow in the morning if there is any. We live in a snow belt. He helps me with our kids on Sunday’s for a few hours. We go out and do something as a family. I want him to help more but he doesn’t.


It sounds like the two of you never go out, just the two of you on a date.
Did the two of you date before marriage? Or was your marriage an arranged marriage?


inadequate wife said:


> Just because we have children doesn’t mean creating them was intimate.


This is so sad. I’m sorry that there has been so little love for you in this marriage. 


inadequate wife said:


> I don’t work because we don’t want someone else raising our children. Daycare is $1650/child here. It’s better to stay home with them.


Makes sense if you can do it. Many families have no choice.


inadequate wife said:


> I weigh 140-145. 35-40 pounds more than I did when we married. I have been breastfeeding or dry nursing for 6 years straight. With each pregnancy I’ve gained and held onto a little bit more. I don’t eat very much. He compares me to other women who have had babies but you’d never know it from looking at them. Even without the weight gain my body is totally different than it was 7 years ago.


This is mean. You have had 5 children in 7 years. That puts a terrible toll on your body. Depression and stress and having 5 children in 7 years usually lead to weight gain. In order to lose that weight, you need to be able to take care of yourself. 

Tell him that you want to lose weight and in order to do that you need to exercise. So, he needs to watch the children for an hour every day so you can do that. You could go for a walk or join a gym. This will also help your depression. Yes, you need to be assertive with him and tell him that all those women who lose their pregnancy weight do so because they take care of themselves. They have husbands who help them with the children and with home. They have husbands who help with the children so that they can exercise, take baths and otherwise pamper themselves. If he wants a wife that is slim and beautiful, he has to allow her time to take care of herself. I am sure this sort of thing will be hard for you to say, but this is being assertive and you need to learn to do it. He can only bully you if you allow him to do it.

Are you doing anything to make sure you don’t get pregnant again?


inadequate wife said:


> I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. My husband is religious. I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted.


If your husband is religious, then he has to follow the things that God says. 

Tell him that God gave him you as a wife and by God’s command, he has to love you. God has commanded that a man shall love his wife as Jesus loves the Church. That the husband must put his wife’s needs ahead of his own needs.



inadequate wife said:


> My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that. My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway. My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly.


Only you can make these decisions about your health. You can consult your husband but in the end, you have to make your own choices. Your husband is wrong. Does your husband belong to some religious sect that does not allow for medical care?

Your husband is being controlling by pressuring you into not taking medication that you need. You need to talk to a counselor and get the help so that you can learn to be assertive. You are not a child. You and your husband are equal partners. He is not your father.



inadequate wife said:


> I don’t have any friends. Even if I did I don’t have time to socialize. My husband won’t give me more than 10 minutes of alone time.


I highly suggest that you find a woman’s organization near you, one that helps women in situations that have domestic abuse. The more you post, the more it is clear that your husband controlling and abusive. He gives you no help. He does not allow you any time to take care of yourself. He denies you necessary medical care. And he berates your and treats you horribly. 

Get into counseling. They will help you with some kind of child care so you can attend. Many of these places have things like a nursery with child care so that they can watch your children while you are in your appointment. Many will even come pick you up if you do not have transportation.

You need to learn your rights and to learn how to be assertive so that your marriage is one of equal partners.. not one of a controlling man who treats is wife like a child.



inadequate wife said:


> He has hobbies.


What are his hobbies? How much time a week does he spend on them? Does he do them at home or does he go out to do them? If he goes out to do them, who is he with?


inadequate wife said:


> I’m not close with my family. My mom died when I was young and my dad isn’t in my life. I was raised by my aunt and her husband but we have a bad relationship. My husband is the only adult I talk to and he doesn’t really talk to me.


In 1995 I left my husband who was abusive. He basically said to me the types of things that your husband says to you. And to make it even worse I supported him through medical school. When I left him I got into counseling with an organization that provided counseling for women and men these types of situations. It provided both private and group. In the group counseling I met another woman going through a divorce. She had 3 children. We became fast friends. We became each other’s support system. My son and her 3 sons became friends. We used to do a night each week when we, and some of our other friends (all the other women were married) and their children met at one of our homes for pizza. The kids would play together and we women would talk. 

She and I are still best friends. Our children are all grown (my son is now 30) but we all keep in touch. My point is that you need to reach out and build your support system. And you never know where just might meet someone who will be there for you and you for them.



inadequate wife said:


> I don’t do anything for myself because I don’t have time. I can’t even have a bath to relax because someone will wake up crying and my husband won’t help. He’ll give me 10 minutes and complains about that. If I go out of the house it is with the kids. It was easier when we had two children and they would nap in the stroller for an hour while I walked.


This is just wrong. Your husband has to start helping with HIS kids. He has to give you a break. He gets every week night off work and all day on the weeks ends. You get no breaks.


inadequate wife said:


> 3 of my children wake up throughout the night. Every 30 minutes to 2 hours. My husband doesn’t help at night. He sleeps on the couch most nights. He wakes me up for sex then goes and sleeps on the couch. That's TMI and I probably shouldn't say that.


No, it’s not TMI. This gives a much better idea of what your marriage is like. I’m so sorry. It sounds so lonely. No wonder you are having trouble dealing with all this.



inadequate wife said:


> We have a grocery list but he won’t write anything down on it and it’s my fault when I don’t know he ran out of something. I know that’s unfair. We have Alexa things in our house and he could say add milk to shopping list and it goes to my phone but he doesn’t do that either. I try and go shopping every few days because a big trip isn’t possible with the kids. We have two grocery stores here that do online pick up but my husband thinks it’s lazy. He thinks any sort of help is lazy and I should be able to handle what I’ve been given because you aren’t given anything you can’t handle. He says I’m ungrateful.


Again, you and your husband are equal partners. Your job is shopping. You know what it takes to go shopping with 5 children. it’s impossible. I don’t even thing it is safe for your children for you to go shopping by yourself with them. If one runs off, as children do sometimes, you would have to decide to either chase after the one running off or leave the others in a dangerous situation. 

Here is another place where you need to get assertive. Shopping is your job and so you decide how you do it. 

If he objects, you could just order and set your pickup times during the day. That way you are not taking the children into the store.



inadequate wife said:


> I try and have my children help with age appropriate tasks but it takes longer and usually gets messier. I suck at parenting. My 4 year old won’t pick up anything. He destroys a room in 10 minutes. Except for my baby I try to get them all in the kitchen.
> Yesterday we made pizza and everyone but my baby got a pizza to make themselves. I’m going to go to the Raising Arrows website and read.


Kids make messes. That’s part of the fun of being a kid. Sometimes you just have to let them do it and enjoy it. After all that’s how they learn.
When my son was young, he loved to ‘help’ me bake. The way he helped was to do what he called making bread. I’d give him water and flour. He’d mix it in a bowl. By the time he was done he and everything around him was covered in flour. He was so happy. And I was able to bake whatever it was that I was making. Children have to be able to make messes sometimes… and they have to giggle when they are doing it. 


inadequate wife said:


> I think I suck at being a wife and mom too. He is my husband and he thinks that. Somedays I want to lock myself in the bathroom and let my children destroy the house. I get frustrated too easily. I don’t enjoy being a mom anymore… I don’t look forward to anything.


You have to stop giving all your power over to your husband like this. 

You are not a terrible wife and mother. You are a woman who is struggling with a real problem and you have not on who gives you any kind of support. 


inadequate wife said:


> I feel like a horrible person and wife for talking badly about my husband. Our marriage is supposed to stay between us. He's a really good dad when we're in public, around his family or around his friends. It stops behind closed doors.


There are times when a married person has to go outside of the marriage to get help. This is one of those times. You are not saying the things you are saying just to be mean and to put him down. You are reaching out for help. You need to be able too that.

There is a good chance that with help, with you leaning to be assertive you might be able to heal from your depression, learn to better handle your job as a SAHM and inspire your husband to become a much better husband and father.

I assume that your husband attends some kind of church. Are there any womens’ groups at the church? Many church’s have times when with children can meet up. Some have day care that SAHM moms can use to get a break. For example day care that will take care of your children for few hours so that you can get some alone time.

Is there anyone who you can talk to at the Church who can help you. Anyone who can work with you and your husband so encourage him to help you out more, to spend time with his children, and even to give you some time for yourself. You need help. You need to start reaching out for help.


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## RandomDude

Wow... Your husband is a serious piece of work.


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## MattMatt

inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


Unless, of course, he is an inadequate husband and father?

How long as he played the role of Captain Misery Pants?


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## Ed3n

I was going to post a reply, but EleGirl covered pretty much everything. Great advice! 

:smthumbup:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Ed3n said:


> I was going to post a reply, but EleGirl covered pretty much everything. Great advice!
> 
> :smthumbup:


Apparently, you fairies think alike:smile2:


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## Blondilocks

You don't have 5 kids - you have six. Ask him which is more important, dinner on the table or a clean kitchen because he can't have it both ways. Those beautiful homes in House and Garden look that way because there is a cleaning crew taking care of it. If he keeps telling you that you fail as a wife, then tell him that he fails as a husband because he should be hiring you a cleaning lady and a nanny.

Stop getting pregnant!


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## NobodySpecial

sunsetmist said:


> In her post she said,"I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. *I don't work.* My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both."
> 
> I'm thinking all she does is work with responsibilities like she mentions. I wanted to refute her idea that she doesn't work. I'm feeling unhappy with her husband right now.


I am glad Ele asked. I thought you were slamming OP! Bad on me.


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## BecauseICan

inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


I was married to him, too! For 18 years! But for us it was ME who felt stuck. I haven't worked in 18 years and I have little kids, how would I ever be able to support us? Until last year when I reached my limit. He wore me down for so long that even though I'm feeling much better now I still feel inadequate. Still expect everyone to think all the things I do are wrong. I still don't have a normal energy level. But guess what? He still wants to be together. He's now realized that we have incredible kids and that it was me who raised them. He's had to learn to do everything, from caring for the kids on his weekend time, getting them where they need to be, paying bills, etc. Boy, paying bills was hard for him. And now he has time to do so much for others. I still can't figure out where that time was when he was with us. I hope your hubby realizes what he has before it's too late. It took me a long time to leave, I wasted so many years stuck in unhappiness. There were bigger issues, too. Things I didn't know until late in our marriage. Things that greatly influenced my decision to leave. But it's funny how now that I'm gone he's sees things so differently. I think underlying his behavior was GUILT. My advice is pretty simple. Don't stay for 18 years iff things don't get better.


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## personofinterest

I also would like to know what religion AND denomination you belong to (if it is Christian). That will color how I advise. Also, do you subscribe to any Bill Gothard principles? Are you and your husband against contraception? I do not ask that last question to be condescending at all. I have a friend with 12 children. It will just help me to comment.


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## BecauseICan

And you are not a failure as a wife any more than he is a failure as a husband. He should lift you up, not tear you down. That's what marriage is all about, building each other up, supporting each other. And if you're not happy with something, attack mode is never the way to fix it. Him coming home noticing all of the wrong and none of the right is not going to give you the motivation to do what he wants done. Does he ever stay with the kids when you leave the house? If so, how does that go? How about on weekends? Does he spend time with the kids to give you a break?


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## In Absentia

EleGirl said:


> You are not an amazon super woman


I think she is. 

OP, why don't you ask your husband to look after the children one weekend, clean the house and cook the meals, so he knows how hard your job is? I'm full of admiration for you. You _are_ an amazon super woman.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Sweetie,

You know your husband is acting wrongly in his opinions and expectations no matter what ethnicity, religion, or absence of religion, right?

All good thoughts and comments above, please take heed. 

Just to see the shock on his face, take part in some kind of event that may require you to travel out of town sans kids for a week, in the near future. 

Have it be a real event, and be fully prepared to go. And you'll need reasonable travel and spending money.

Give yourself a much needed break. From kids and him.

PS, this in no way no how makes you a poor mother or wife to think about, want and need a break.

It makes you normal. 

And considerate of his welfare, so you don't snap and beat him with a bat 😉.


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## personofinterest

WorkingWife said:


> Have you done any snooping to see if he's having an affair?
> 
> His attitude sounds to me like someone who is being hypercritical of their spouse to justify their own bad behavior.
> 
> Questions:
> 1. How much weight have you gained and how long since you had your last child?
> 2. How old are your children? If they're at home I imagine watching them alone is a full time job and most women wouldn't be able to do that plus time dinner and cleaning perfectly.
> 3. When you say you can't do everything because you're so tired -- do you sleep a lot during the day? (If so, you could be depressed, diabetic, ...all kinds of things.)
> 4. Can you give examples of the things you ask for help with that he says is you needing too much help?
> 5. Has your H always had these exacting standards for cleanliness? Or has he developed them more recently?
> 
> One thing I would recommend for you is an exercise regimen if you don't have one already. I have a rebounder I jump on in the mornings. I seldom want to get on it, but once I do, I find I feel so much better all day. Less overwhelmed, better mood, more capable, etc. If you have internet there are also yoga lessons on YouTube for free (Look up yoga with Adriene.)
> 
> It's really hard to judge if your husband is just an ass without more details. On one hand - If I worked all day and came home to the impression that my spouse just laid around eating while I was gone, I'd be resentful. But on the other hand, if I came home to a meal but the kitchen was still dirty but I knew my spouse was going to take care of it later, why on earth would I care? You're not a stepford wife!
> 
> Regardless:
> 
> 1. You sound depressed. Please go see a dr. for yourself and your marriage.
> 2. Your husband is not handling this in any way that is helpful. So you may be a disappointment as a wife but he's a disappointment as a husband too.


I'm not sure if you only read the opening post, but have you seen that she has had 5 children in 7 years, and the youngest is 10 months?

I would say getting svelte is probably not her issue here.


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## uhtred

OP, what are you comparing to if you think you are a failure? Are there really people who could do better? I think your husband has completely unrealistic expectations about life. Raising a lot of kids takes a huge effort - there is not way to do that and have a house that is tidy, good food on the table etc. That only happens in movies - in real life houses with kids are always in a bit of chaos. Also in real life the husband usually helps a lot. He doesn't get to just come home from work and relax.


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## BioFury

inadequate wife said:


> My husband hates when people say being a parent is the hardest job. He doesn’t believe that.
> 
> He doesn’t help with the house. He shovels snow in the morning if there is any. We live in a snow belt. He helps me with our kids on Sunday’s for a few hours. We go out and do something as a family. I want him to help more but he doesn’t.
> 
> Just because we have children doesn’t mean creating them was intimate. I don’t work because we don’t want someone else raising our children. Daycare is $1650/child here. It’s better to stay home with them.
> 
> I weigh 140-145. 35-40 pounds more than I did when we married. I have been breastfeeding or dry nursing for 6 years straight. With each pregnancy I’ve gained and held onto a little bit more. I don’t eat very much. He compares me to other women who have had babies but you’d never know it from looking at them. Even without the weight gain my body is totally different than it was 7 years ago.
> 
> I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. My husband is religious. I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted. My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that. My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway. My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly.
> 
> I don’t have any friends. Even if I did I don’t have time to socialize. My husband won’t give me more than 10 minutes of alone time. He has hobbies. I’m not close with my family. My mom died when I was young and my dad isn’t in my life. I was raised by my aunt and her husband but we have a bad relationship. My husband is the only adult I talk to and he doesn’t really talk to me. I don’t do anything for myself because I don’t have time. I can’t even have a bath to relax because someone will wake up crying and my husband won’t help. He’ll give me 10 minutes and complains about that. If I go out of the house it is with the kids. It was easier when we had two children and they would nap in the stroller for an hour while I walked.
> 
> 3 of my children wake up throughout the night. Every 30 minutes to 2 hours. My husband doesn’t help at night. He sleeps on the couch most nights. He wakes me up for sex then goes and sleeps on the couch. That's TMI and I probably shouldn't say that.
> 
> We have a grocery list but he won’t write anything down on it and it’s my fault when I don’t know he ran out of something. I know that’s unfair. We have Alexa things in our house and he could say add milk to shopping list and it goes to my phone but he doesn’t do that either. I try and go shopping every few days because a big trip isn’t possible with the kids. We have two grocery stores here that do online pick up but my husband thinks it’s lazy. He thinks any sort of help is lazy and I should be able to handle what I’ve been given because you aren’t given anything you can’t handle. He says I’m ungrateful.
> 
> I try and have my children help with age appropriate tasks but it takes longer and usually gets messier. I suck at parenting. My 4 year old won’t pick up anything. He destroys a room in 10 minutes. Except for my baby I try to get them all in the kitchen. Yesterday we made pizza and everyone but my baby got a pizza to make themselves. I’m going to go to the Raising Arrows website and read.
> 
> I think I suck at being a wife and mom too. He is my husband and he thinks that. Somedays I want to lock myself in the bathroom and let my children destroy the house. I get frustrated too easily. I don’t enjoy being a mom anymore… I don’t look forward to anything.
> 
> I feel like a horrible person and wife for talking badly about my husband. Our marriage is supposed to stay between us. He's a really good dad when we're in public, around his family or around his friends. It stops behind closed doors.


Everything you're saying just communicates that you've allowed yourself to be your husband's doormat. We're all sorry that you find yourself in this position, and we can provide sympathy if that's what you need, but it's not going to change your life for the better.

If you want to change things at home, and live a happier, more fulfilling life, then you need to change your thought process. The "woe is me, I can't do anything right" is a load of bunk that you've accepted as a product of your husband's constant gaslighting. What you need to realize, is that your husband is a narcissist.

Your first assignment is to look up "narcissist", and read the definitions. See if you notice any similarities with your husband. Then, look up "gaslighting", and see if you recognize this at play in your husbands actions.


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## personofinterest

Your husband is abusive. Emotionally, sexually (I believe), and he also exhibits signs of religious abuse.

I am waiting for people to disagree, but I know of what I speak. I have been in the circles your husband is in religiously.

Honestly, if you are not religious, I am sort of rolling my eyes at his "religiosity," since one of the cornerstones of that legalism he espouses is to not be unequally yoked.

It is VERY hard to reason with someone like this because they have their faith to "support" their behavior.

BTW, I am a Bible-believing conservative Christian. I am also someone who has recovered from rampant legalism.


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## inadequate wife

Thank you for trying to help me. I wrote this in pieces since last night. If I missed someones advice I’m sorry. 

My husband is Catholic. The church that we go to is Roman Catholic. Earlier in our marriage he went to a Baptist church. His dad is Muslim and his mom converted from Orthodox. He was raised Muslim but went to a Catholic school and stuck with Catholic. His dad’s background is Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. His mom’s background is Eastern European. His family moved to here to Canada when he was 8. Culturally, he is a mix that he picked and chose from. I was raised Orthodox and went to Catholic schools but stopped participating in religion until I met my husband. I don’t know a lot about Bill Gothard beyond his principles but no we don’t. 

I have worked before but only jobs while going through university. They were easier but I can’t compare mostly minimum wage jobs to his. I need him to stop dismissing my feelings. He hates when I say that. He picks and chooses from various religions and cultures. If I say the verse that love is patient and kind, it does not boast or envy, it is not arrogant or rude. He says that god will be angry at me until I please my husband and that is why my days go badly. 

I met my husband 2 years before we married. We had mutual friends at the time. We use to go out a lot but haven’t for 3-4 years. Not alone. 

I shouldn’t have said that part about our sex life. That is supposed to be between my husband and I. 

I have talked to my husband about wanting to lose weight but he says 1 of 2 things. That exercise doesn’t matter only what I eat matters. But I barely eat. I only eat once a day and a small portion. Then he says if I want to exercise to do it at home when our children are in bed. If I wanted to go for a walk he would tell me to take our children with me. I wouldn’t mind taking my baby on a walk with me because he falls asleep if I baby wear him. I don’t know how to stand up to him. He isn’t abusive. He has never hit me. I’m supposed to be submissive to him. And to be quiet with no authority and trust him as the head of the house. I don’t know how to change that dynamic or if I even can. 

I’m not allowed to use contraception. My husband’s stance is anything that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting is no different than an abortion and is manslaughter. Anything that prevents his semen from getting inside me or damages it isn’t allowed because that wastes it. Natural family planning is allowed but not really encouraged and he won’t abstain twice a month. Masturbation isn’t allowed obviously. Only god can decide how many children we have. I don’t want anymore… I can’t handle it. Breastfeeding and co-sleeping are supposed to prevent pregnancy and that is what the church recommends. I feed on demand, wear my babies, co-sleep and that hasn’t worked for me as well as it has for other families at our church. I’m nursing my 9 month old and 20 month old, and weaning my 3 year old. I conceived at 2-12 months postpartum. My baby is 9 months old so any time now. 

My husband isn’t against most medical care. He believes the church is a hospital for healing and depression can be healed through prayer. I don’t think he will let me talk to anyone outside of the church and their opinion might not differ from my husbands. It has been like this for so long that it’s not fair for me to change it now. He has never hit me but I am still scared to be assertive. Even if I wanted to I don’t know how. If I could make him happy then I wouldn’t have this to complain about. He won’t divorce me but I don’t want him to be miserable with me for the rest of our lives. He isn’t abusive. He isn’t perfect but I love him. 

Is it wrong of me to see a counsellor behind his back? Is that ever okay? 

He likes building electronic models and model cars and airplanes. He golfs a lot. In the spring, summer and fall he golfs with his friends every Saturday and he’s gone for 6 hours. In the winter he spends Saturdays at an indoor golf place for 3-4 hours. In his other spare time he works on models at home and says the kids can when they are old enough. On Tuesdays and Sundays he plays D&D from 9PM-12AM. Sometimes later. Then complains the next day that he’s tired. If he isn’t doing any of that he goes out with his friends, plays a video game online with his friends, works out, or is on his computer or phone. He has said that he knows it’s not fair that he has time to himself and I don’t but that it’s just the way it is. 

On Sundays we go to church then go out as a family. That’s our only real family time. 

I do need a support system. I only have my husband. I develop feelings for other men very easily and I know that’s not okay. If a man helps me with something small I instantly have feelings for that person. That’s not okay. I avoid social situations and talking to people. Now most people think I’m not friendly. He wants me to connect with people at our church but it’s hard for me. I’m not religious. I do it for my husband but it puts me in a weird area that I don’t feel like I fit in with either side. Religious or non-religious. Outside of the church I feel judged for being young and having a large family. Does group counselling feel judgemental?

I shouldn’t be talking about our sex life. That’s immodest. 

Shopping is hard. I have to wear my baby, 20 month old and 3 year old go in the cart, 4 year old tries to run away, and my 6 year old helps grab things. I try and get in and out as fast as I can. Doing grocery pick up would be easier because I wouldn’t even have to go into the store. My husband thinks it’s lazy and I shouldn’t do things behind his back. I need to be assertive and tell him I’m going to start doing that. It shouldn’t be so hard for me to express a different opinion or be assertive once. 

My husband does not take our children out alone or stay home with all of them. He has never been alone with all of our children. He will take care of them long enough for me to shower quickly. After I’ve had each baby my midwife and doula came by often for the first two months because they knew I needed help. That does bother me. We are in Canada so we have parental leave and his company tops up his parental leave to be 100% of his salary. He has taken parental leave with each child from 3 months to a full year and still doesn’t help. He helped less. 

I use to not care when the kids were messy. It’s become harder and harder to manage. Sometimes my older two will say that we need to clean the whole house before dad gets home or he’ll be mad. I don’t want them to live like that. If they do something they shouldn’t they tell me not to tell my husband because they don’t want him to yell at them. He rarely yells at them though. When he does parent them he’s very gentle. 

My husband wouldn’t have an affair. He dated before me but we have only been with each other. An affair goes against everything he believe in. He wouldn’t do that.

I want to be happy in my marriage. It's the only one I'll have. I love my husband. I know all I'm doing is complaining about him but I love him.


----------



## WorkingWife

Oh sweetheart. Please see my comments in red.



inadequate wife said:


> My husband hates when people say being a parent is the hardest job. He doesn’t believe that.
> 
> I weigh 140-145. 35-40 pounds more than I did when we married. I have been breastfeeding or dry nursing for 6 years straight. With each pregnancy I’ve gained and held onto a little bit more. I don’t eat very much. He compares me to other women who have had babies but you’d never know it from looking at them. Even without the weight gain my body is totally different than it was 7 years ago.
> 
> You've had 5 kids and you're only up 35 - 40 pounds? Your husband is being unreasonable. With that said, if you're not eating much and still aren't losing weight, it might be what you're eating and that your metabolism is messed up. I just watched this video today and found it very interesting: https://youtu.be/dt1DOJXAXFg BTW - stress and sleep deprivation both make it nearly impossible to lose weight.
> 
> 
> I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. My husband is religious. I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted.
> 
> I assume his church does marital counseling? If you could get him to do this with you it might be really awesome when the church elders explain to him that right now he's the failure in the marriage.
> 
> My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that. My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway.
> 
> Your husband is extremely ignorant on the subject. That is not how anti-depressants work. I won't digress into an explanation on how they do work, but as soon as you're done breast feeding I would go to your Dr. and discuss this again. And I would take them if the Dr. recommends it. Your husband is entitled to his beliefs but it is YOUR body and YOUR life and YOUR health. So what if HE thinks it's "sinful?" You're already doing things HE doesn't like, he is not going to leave you over this one more trangression, after all, leaving your wife is also sinful....
> 
> 
> My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly.
> 
> I don’t have any friends. Even if I did I don’t have time to socialize. My husband won’t give me more than 10 minutes of alone time. He has hobbies. I’m not close with my family. My mom died when I was young and my dad isn’t in my life. I was raised by my aunt and her husband but we have a bad relationship. My husband is the only adult I talk to and he doesn’t really talk to me. I don’t do anything for myself because I don’t have time. I can’t even have a bath to relax because someone will wake up crying and my husband won’t help. He’ll give me 10 minutes and complains about that. If I go out of the house it is with the kids. It was easier when we had two children and they would nap in the stroller for an hour while I walked.
> 
> Oh my God, woman, you need some support. You are isolated. Here is an idea... You are not religious but that doesn't mean you can't socialize with people who are. Does his church have any side groups? A wive's bible study? Quilting group? Anything? If you could get involved in something with the church that would give you a chance to make some friends. How can he argue you spending time with church people? And if you get to know some of these ladies on a more personal level, maybe he would start getting a wake up call from his fellow church goers when you are always politely saying "I'd love to but my husband won't allow me to do that."
> 
> 
> 3 of my children wake up throughout the night. Every 30 minutes to 2 hours. My husband doesn’t help at night. He sleeps on the couch most nights. He wakes me up for sex then goes and sleeps on the couch. That's TMI and I probably shouldn't say that.
> 
> You can say it. This is an anonymous forum. No one on here no one knows who your husband is and it helps paint a more complete picture. Sleep deprivation will slowly kill you. I am not joking. Your body never gets a chance to regenerate. Hurts your heart, your immune system, causes weight gain, causes depression, it's terrible.
> 
> 
> We have a grocery list but he won’t write anything down on it and it’s my fault when I don’t know he ran out of something. I know that’s unfair.
> 
> Yes, even you can see that is unfair. I would never act apologetic for forgetting something he wanted, I would just cheerfully say "write it down and I'll get it. Don't write it down and I'll forget it."
> 
> We have Alexa things in our house and he could say add milk to shopping list and it goes to my phone but he doesn’t do that either. I try and go shopping every few days because a big trip isn’t possible with the kids. We have two grocery stores here that do online pick up but my husband thinks it’s lazy. He thinks any sort of help is lazy and I should be able to handle what I’ve been given because you aren’t given anything you can’t handle. He says I’m ungrateful.
> 
> Um.... Good lord. Your husband is using his religion to manipulate you. And I'm pretty sure THAT is a sin. Don't ASK him, TELL him that this task has been assigned to you and you are going to ensure that it gets done. In fact, I wouldn't even necessarily tell him, I'd just start using the service. Then if he complains after the fact, tell him if he doesn't like your method, he can take over the task. If he complains, tell him he's being ungrateful and God would not give him anything he could not handle.
> 
> ALSO when he says God would not give you anything you can't handle, tell him HE is the one giving you something you cannot handle, not GOD. GOD has provided the tools you need to handle the task better (like Alexa for him to put his stuff on the list and the grocery services to help you juggle five kids and groceries).
> 
> This makes NO SENSE AT ALL -- if using tools and services mankind has invented is LAZY why isn't he walking to work? Why do you guys have Alexa? Why do you have internet?
> 
> I try and have my children help with age appropriate tasks but it takes longer and usually gets messier. I suck at parenting. My 4 year old won’t pick up anything. He destroys a room in 10 minutes. Except for my baby I try to get them all in the kitchen. Yesterday we made pizza and everyone but my baby got a pizza to make themselves. I’m going to go to the Raising Arrows website and read.
> 
> I'm in my 50's and I can still destroy a room in 10 minutes, LOL. Notice you say "your four year old won't..." You have how many kids? That one child is naturally messy/absent minded does not mean you are a bad parent.
> 
> I think I suck at being a wife and mom too. He is my husband and he thinks that. Somedays I want to lock myself in the bathroom and let my children destroy the house. I get frustrated too easily. I don’t enjoy being a mom anymore… I don’t look forward to anything.
> 
> You can't enjoy being a mom when you are overwhelmed and depressed and have all this pressure for YOUR HUSBAND'S idea of perfection on you. You are probably getting frustrated easily because every time one of your kids makes a mess or does not obey like a little soldier you can feel your H judging YOU. You know what? Right now? HE SUCKS AT BEING A HUSBAND. He may be providing financially but he is not giving you anything that you need AS A WIFE. I think he needs to re-read his marriage vows.
> 
> I feel like a horrible person and wife for talking badly about my husband. Our marriage is supposed to stay between us. He's a really good dad when we're in public, around his family or around his friends. It stops behind closed doors.
> 
> OK, but ARE you talking "badly" about him? I have read you objectively describing things he says and does. That can only be "talking badly about him." if he is behaving badly. You have described yourself in negative terms -- saying how horrible you are and how HE SAYS THAT TOO. So we know he talks badly about you, but so far you have not talked badly about him.


----------



## personofinterest

I am so sorry. Between the traditional Muslim beliefs, the orthodox Catholicism, and probably the former Baptist teaching....oh my, he is the worst of all possible worlds.

I wish I knew how to advise. I would recommend counseling whether he likes it or not. Do you think you could talk to your priest, or is he just likely to echo your husband's warped beliefs? Like I said, I believe your husband is abusive, especially with the added isolation.

My heart really goes out to you. It's hurting for you right now.

Know this" you are NOT a failure. You are a valuable human who was created with care. You are NOT a failure.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

You've got to truly understand your husband is indeed abusing you in many non-hitting ways but emotionally and yes still physically regarding your health suffering.

Your health will deteriorate further without someone to help you get a break.

Everything describing his actions show that he's self centered, selfish, lazy, emotionally a child, and he wrongly burdens you with his child-like sense of responsibility towards being a father and husband. 

It is going to take something to shock him into reality, even if possible to do so.

He's sounding borderline nuts. (Sorry, but appears true)


----------



## WorkingWife

@inadequate wife BioFury makes great points here. Here is a lady I've seen on YouTube who talks about narcissism. It's fascinating. That youtube channel (medcircle) also has a bunch of videos on depression - though I've not seen any of those:














BioFury said:


> Everything you're saying just communicates that you've allowed yourself to be your husband's doormat. We're all sorry that you find yourself in this position, and we can provide sympathy if that's what you need, but it's not going to change your life for the better.
> 
> If you want to change things at home, and live a happier, more fulfilling life, then you need to change your thought process. The "woe is me, I can't do anything right" is a load of bunk that you've accepted as a product of your husband's constant gaslighting. What you need to realize, is that your husband is a narcissist.
> 
> Your first assignment is to look up "narcissist", and read the definitions. See if you notice any similarities with your husband. Then, look up "gaslighting", and see if you recognize this at play in your husbands actions.


----------



## WorkingWife

personofinterest said:


> I'm not sure if you only read the opening post, but have you seen that she has had 5 children in 7 years, and the youngest is 10 months?
> 
> I would say getting svelte is probably not her issue here.


Yeah, I read the first couple opening pages but posted that before I saw the details she gave. I'm going to edit out a lot of that post.


----------



## happyhusband0005

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


Umm with that line up of kids, your husband has WAAAYYYYY to high expectations. He's a jerk. 5 kids from infant to barely out of toddler stage even if me and my wife were both staying home our house would probably look like a tornado hit most days if we had those kids.


----------



## NobodySpecial

I am literally in tears for you. He comes to you long enough to have sex then off to the couch. What a lonely life! Where is YOUR life? Do you get to have one while married to this POS?


----------



## jlg07

inadequate wife said:


> My husband hates when people say being a parent is the hardest job. He doesn’t believe that.
> TOUGH -- It is WAY more difficult, and WAAAAYYYY more important of any job out there -- YOU are the primary person showing your children how to grow, enjoy life, become good people. That is MUCH more important to the world than any other job out there. Note that I didn't say other jobs are not hard -- I'm sure your husband thinks his is difficult, but parenting is not only difficult, but important. The main importance of your husbands job is to earn $$ to support the family. If he is religious, have him look into what the vocation of being a father and husband entail -- it's not just going to work and he is doing a poor job of it.
> 
> I weigh 140-145. 35-40 pounds more than I did when we married. I have been breastfeeding or dry nursing for 6 years straight. With each pregnancy I’ve gained and held onto a little bit more. I don’t eat very much. He compares me to other women who have had babies but you’d never know it from looking at them. Even without the weight gain my body is totally different than it was 7 years ago.
> EVERY woman who gives birth have changes to their body -- its the way you are designed to be (tell him that God made you this way -- it's true). Many women who look like they never gave birth are a) gifted genetically, and b) HAVE THE TIME TO WORK OUT to get the weigh off -- it's not magic. YOU clearly have no time to devote going to a gym -- ask your husband that if he wants that, then you need to hit the gym for 2 hours every other day and HE can cover the kids while you do that...
> 
> I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. My husband is religious. I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted. My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that.
> 
> Your husband is CLUELESS. Depression is a physical/chemical issue with the body -- it is NOT a spiritual thing (he may be confusing "happiness" which IS spiritual, with depression which is physical).
> My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway. My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly.
> 
> I don’t have any friends. Even if I did I don’t have time to socialize. My husband won’t give me more than 10 minutes of alone time. He has hobbies. I’m not close with my family. My mom died when I was young and my dad isn’t in my life. I was raised by my aunt and her husband but we have a bad relationship. My husband is the only adult I talk to and he doesn’t really talk to me. I don’t do anything for myself because I don’t have time. I can’t even have a bath to relax because someone will wake up crying and my husband won’t help. He’ll give me 10 minutes and complains about that. If I go out of the house it is with the kids. It was easier when we had two children and they would nap in the stroller for an hour while I walked.
> Maybe take your kids to children play dates, etc. -- so you can socialize with other parents -- have them take classes (sports,kinder music, etc.) and again, you can socialize. This is VERY important to YOUR overall health.
> 
> 3 of my children wake up throughout the night. Every 30 minutes to 2 hours. My husband doesn’t help at night. He sleeps on the couch most nights. He wakes me up for sex then goes and sleeps on the couch. That's TMI and I probably shouldn't say that.For some of your kids, don't jump up right away -- let them cry a bit (obviously NOT forever) -- this may just be a learned response with them -- they want attention, so they cry, and you give them attention right away.
> 
> We have a grocery list but he won’t write anything down on it and it’s my fault when I don’t know he ran out of something. I know that’s unfair. We have Alexa things in our house and he could say add milk to shopping list and it goes to my phone but he doesn’t do that either. Then TOUGH -- stand up to him on this. A) you aren't a mind reader, and B) how are you supposed to memorize a huge list anyway! If he forgets then HE should go out and get it. I've told my wife that when I shop, I NEED a list unless it is 3 or less items. Over that, I'm sure to come home without stuff.I try and go shopping every few days because a big trip isn’t possible with the kids. We have two grocery stores here that do online pick up but my husband thinks it’s lazy. He thinks any sort of help is lazy and I should be able to handle what I’ve been given because you aren’t given anything you can’t handle. I guess that HE is lazy because he can't seem to handle the vocation of being a husband and father. He is failing at that miserably, and HE should be talking with his priest/minister at how to get better.He says I’m ungrateful.
> 
> I try and have my children help with age appropriate tasks but it takes longer and usually gets messier. I suck at parenting. My 4 year old won’t pick up anything. He destroys a room in 10 minutes. Then start removing things that he wants to play with until he gets better at it.
> YOU do need to train the children that there are responsiblities in life (I know VERY hard in the terrible 2/3's!!) Except for my baby I try to get them all in the kitchen. Yesterday we made pizza and everyone but my baby got a pizza to make themselves. I’m going to go to the Raising Arrows website and read.
> 
> I think I suck at being a wife and mom too. He is my husband and he thinks that. Somedays I want to lock myself in the bathroom and let my children destroy the house. I get frustrated too easily. I don’t enjoy being a mom anymore… I don’t look forward to anything. This is because you are becoming overwhelmed and may INDEED have clinical depression (sounds like it). You are letting your negative thoughts get the better of you. Do not let all of these negative comments from your husband affect YOUR self-image. You need to talk with other people about this also (here is good, but you need real-life folks also) -- you need a support system.
> 
> I feel like a horrible person and wife for talking badly about my husband. Our marriage is supposed to stay between us. He's a really good dad when we're in public,IN PUBLIC -- that is NOT a good Dad -- that just shows he is aware of the image he wants to project). He is NOT fulfilling his vocation -- THAT requires to be good in public AND in private and TO HELP HIS WIFE AND FAMILY. Yes, you have YOUR jobs to do, and he has his work, but there is ALSO a shared part in EVERY FAMILY -- that is the true vocation of husband/father -- NOT separation. around his family or around his friends. It stops behind closed doors.


Since your husband is Catholic, Read THESE as for what HE should be doing:
https://fathersofmercy.com/ten-commandments-of-a-husband-and-father/
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jennifer-fulwiler/mens-real-vocations-are-not-their-careers
http://catholicphilly.com/2017/06/catholic-spirituality/how-can-fatherhood-possibly-be-a-vocation/

I think he is trying to manipulate you with the religious stuff. HE is the one who is ungrateful and living a LIE -- HE is not following God's will.


----------



## Violet28

For your own health and the health of your babies, you need to take a break from pregnancy and childbirth. You have had five kids in six years, your body needs at least two years to recover from one pregnancy. This is not your husband's decision, it's your decision. Nursing three kids at once is not healthy and it's also not healthy to nurse while you're pregnant. A lot of these issues in your marriage and family are because you are allowing your husband to dictate everything and not participate in the family. This is not what the Bible advocates. Your husband is supposed to take care of you and your family as he cares for his own body. 

You are in a potentially dangerous situation, when you combine postpartum feelings with stress and depression a lot of bad things can happen. You need support and you aren't getting it from your husband. You are important, you have worth that is not dependent on being on wife and mother. You need to get out of the house and around people. What about going to a gym a couple times of week and putting the kids in the daycare there or joining a mommy and me group? Your husband may not ending up being much of a help to you here and you need to decide if you can live with a man like for the rest of your life.


----------



## Anon Ten

Have a talk with him. Be blunt and tell him what you really think, but don't be mean.

If that doesn't work, tell him you are unhappy and would like a divorce. That should motivate him to work on the issues and make him see how serious they are. It sure did me.

If that doesn't light a fire under him, nothing will. Follow through with the divorce.


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## personofinterest

OP, are you in a position to be ABLE to talk freely with your husband about this? Does he cut you off, twist your words, shame you? Does he call into question your commitment as a wife and mother? Does he refer to selfishness and sinfulness on your part?

I think people who have not experienced this are woefully clueless about how IMPOSSIBLE it can be to even have a voice at all. And most people who are allowed a voice HAVE talked to their spouse before they come to a forum. In fact, you seem so wary and afraid to post, I would bet that you ONLY decided to post here after any and all attempts you have made at talking to your husband were shot down.

Am I in the ballpark?

It would be akin to me telling an oppressed ISIS wife how she should go about reporting marital rape and bigamy. My frame of reference would be so far away from HER actual experience, my advice would probably make her cringe.


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## jorgegene

" My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that." 

this just stopped me cold in my tracks.

i think i know where the real problem is.


----------



## NobodySpecial

jorgegene said:


> " My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that."
> 
> this just stopped me cold in my tracks.
> 
> i think i know where the real problem is.


"Sin" is that which prevents OP from staying under this "husband"'s thumb. The thing is, breaking loose must be done with great care. @Ele, is it time for your preparation post?


----------



## sunsetmist

I want to be clear as I messed up before. There are many suggestions here, but you are overwhelmed both physically and emotionally--hard to make good decisions/take action at this point. I know of no one who could juggle all you have to do.

You love your husband. I'm not there and cannot judge his treatment and motives. I would like to suggest that you call the National Domestic Abuse hotline. 1-800-799-SAFE (7233). They are experts who can suggest local contacts/resources. They can educate you and him as well if necessary. I am only trying to suggest resources and not call anything abuse. They also have a chat line 24/7. You can be as anonymous as you choose. Good Luck.


ETA: Here is contact info for Canadian resources. (~EleGirl)

1-866-863-0511 (Toll Free) 
416-863-0511 (Toronto)

http://www.women.gov.on.ca/owd/english/ending-violence/help/services.shtml


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## NobodySpecial

sunsetmist said:


> I want to be clear as I messed up before. There are many suggestions here, but you are overwhelmed both physically and emotionally--hard to make good decisions/take action at this point. I know of no one who could juggle all you have to do.
> 
> You love your husband. I'm not there and cannot judge his treatment and motives. I* would like to suggest that you call the National Domestic Abuse hotline. 1-800-799-SAFE (7233). They are experts who can suggest local contacts/resources. They can educate you and him as well if necessary. I am only trying to suggest resources and not call anything abuse. * They also have a chat line 24/7.  You can be as anonymous as you choose. Good Luck.


Yes. This is better than my advice and misguided labelling.


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## NobodySpecial

@EleGirl You have a helpful set of advice for helping reach out for support. Do you think this would be a good use of that information?


----------



## Spicy

I haven’t had a chance to read your entire thread, so probably a lot of this has already been said, but I will read it tonight.

Are you in love with your husband?

I would do these things immediately. 

1. Go get an IUD.
2. On Saturdays, be gone from 6am-6pm and request to return to a perfectly clean house with hot dinner on the table, every time.
3. Stop breastfeeding the 3 year old, 2 kids nursing is already too much.
4. Order your groceries online and pick them up. He will never know the difference anyway.

Sorry you are here honey. We want to help, but you have to be willing to stick up for yourself and make some changes.


----------



## personofinterest

Spicy said:


> I haven’t had a chance to read your entire thread, so probably a lot of this has already been said, but I will read it tonight.
> 
> Are you in love with your husband?
> 
> I would do these things immediately.
> 
> 1. Go get an IUD.
> 2. On Saturdays, be gone from 6am-6pm and request to return to a perfectly clean house with hot dinner on the table, every time.
> 3. Stop breastfeeding the 3 year old, 2 kids nursing is already too much.
> 4. Order your groceries online and pick them up. He will never know the difference anyway.
> 
> Sorry you are here honey. We want to help, but you have to be willing to stick up for yourself and make some changes.


When you get to the post where she outlines his religious and person beliefs, you will see why she cannot likely do these things.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Spicy said:


> I haven’t had a chance to read your entire thread, so probably a lot of this has already been said, but I will read it tonight.
> 
> Are you in love with your husband?
> 
> I would do these things immediately.
> 
> 1. Go get an IUD.
> 2. On Saturdays, be gone from 6am-6pm and request to return to a perfectly clean house with hot dinner on the table, every time.
> 3. Stop breastfeeding the 3 year old, 2 kids nursing is already too much.
> 4. Order your groceries online and pick them up. He will never know the difference anyway.
> 
> Sorry you are here honey. We want to help, but you have to be willing to stick up for yourself and make some changes.


I would be worried about DH's response should he learn about #1. I don't think she could just jaunt off for #2.


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## EleGirl

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Apparently, you fairies think alike:smile2:


Fairies are special :grin2:


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## Adelais

Your situation is not going to change immediately or quickly (unless you leave, which I don’t think you should do right now) so you need to work on two fronts:

1. Get mental help for yourself. Go to a Dr. and get antidepressants that won’t affect your nursing babies. Tell your husband that since God isn’t healing you, that you are going to get help from people who have brains, skills and medicines that God allowed them to have for the good of mankind. Tell him that you are going to a counselor and that his secret contolling of you is over. You are going to get help even if it means telling the counselor EVERYTHING. Start looking for a babysitter who will come to your home, so you can make your appointments.

2.	Get some order in your home. Simplify what you can, and start teaching your 4.5 year old and 7 year old to clean up after themselves. I’ll post some links to methods that I have used over the years, because although my husband didn’t criticize me, I needed to figure out ways to teach my children to clean up after themselves and later do more things as they were able. I didn’t have family support and couldn’t afford outside help, and needed to organize myself so I could organize them.


----------



## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> My husband is Catholic. The church that we go to is Roman Catholic. Earlier in our marriage he went to a Baptist church. His dad is Muslim and his mom converted from Orthodox. He was raised Muslim but went to a Catholic school and stuck with Catholic. His dad’s background is Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. His mom’s background is Eastern European. His family moved to here to Canada when he was 8. Culturally, he is a mix that he picked and chose from. I was raised Orthodox and went to Catholic schools but stopped participating in religion until I met my husband. I don’t know a lot about Bill Gothard beyond his principles but no we don’t.


I am Catholic. I am also very well read/studies in Islam. While I was born in the USA, I grew up mostly in Europe, Africa, Lebanon, the Middle East and Europe. My father was in the US Army and then a diplomat. I’m sharing this to let you know that I have a pretty good clue about all this religious stuff.
There is absolutely NOTHING is Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Islam that supports that your husband is doing. There is nothing in them that says people should not use the medications that they need. If he believes that, it’s his own fabrication.
To me what it sounds like is that your husband is abusive. Abusers do what they do to control their spouse. It’s all about control. By keeping you pregnant, in the house and over whelmed by housework, child care, etc. he can abuse and control you. Abusers use control to make themselves feel better about themselves. He can verbally beat you up and keep a mental picture that he is far superior to you. And by keeping you isolated, he knows that you will not find the strength to stand up to him. 

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-...548882595&sr=8-1&keywords=why+does+he+do+that


inadequate wife said:


> I have worked before but only jobs while going through university. They were easier but I can’t compare mostly minimum wage jobs to his.


It sounds like he’s an engineer. I’m an engineer. Working as an engineer is usually no more exhausting that most jobs where a person works sitting most of the day. It’s more intellectual work than physical. Well unless he’s doing something like in the field where he’s climbing all over aircraft, or some other thing that he’s working on. But even then, it’s not all that exhausting… not when he is working 40 hours a week.


inadequate wife said:


> I need him to stop dismissing my feelings. He hates when I say that. He picks and chooses from various religions and cultures. If I say the verse that love is patient and kind, it does not boast or envy, it is not arrogant or rude. He says that god will be angry at me until I please my husband and that is why my days go badly.


I guess he thinks that God only puts requirements on married women. God actually puts more requirements on the husband. And treating his wife well and putting her needs ahead of his own is the first things that is required of a husband. Many people tend to ignore this. 



inadequate wife said:


> I met my husband 2 years before we married. We had mutual friends at the time. We use to go out a lot but haven’t for 3-4 years. Not alone.


Not having quality time together has killed the love in your marriage. That’s what happens. There are two books that would help you lean what a good marriage looks like: “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. Read them in that order and do the work they say to do. 


inadequate wife said:


> I shouldn’t have said that part about our sex life. That is supposed to be between my husband and I.


You gave only the very highest-level information. That’s not wrong. Further, since your husband is abusive and unloving, he has lost the right to privacy when it comes to you seeking help.


inadequate wife said:


> I have talked to my husband about wanting to lose weight but he says 1 of 2 things. That exercise doesn’t matter only what I eat matters. But I barely eat. I only eat once a day and a small portion. Then he says if I want to exercise to do it at home when our children are in bed. If I wanted to go for a walk he would tell me to take our children with me. I wouldn’t mind taking my baby on a walk with me because he falls asleep if I baby wear him.


So your husband thinks that he has more knowledge than medical doctors and scientist. Exercise absolutely is a big part of weight loss and management. You’re eating barely nothing every day might be part of the problem. When a person eats too little, their body goes into starvation mode which dials down their metabolism to almost nothing and the body conserves energy (fat). This also leads to depression.
You are nursing a baby (or more than one baby). You need to be eating 3 meals a day .. healthy meals. Meat and vegetables mostly. If you are only eating one small meal a day, you are also starving your children who are nursing.
Please take what you have writen on this forum and show it to the priest and women leaders in your church. For the sake of your children you need to do this. For one thing you need them to talk to your husband. And you need a strong support system that will help you.


inadequate wife said:


> I don’t know how to stand up to him. He isn’t abusive. He has never hit me. I’m supposed to be submissive to him. And to be quiet with no authority and trust him as the head of the house. I don’t know how to change that dynamic or if I even can.


Abuse is not just physical abuse. Verbal and mental abuse is just as bad as physical abuse. Sometimes it is worse because it breaks the victim (you). From what you have your mental/emotional state has been broken, he has beaten you down emotionally until you hardly exist.
No, the Catholic church does not say that you are supposed to be submissive and you have no authority. The scriptures say that he has to listen to you and he has to put his needs ahead of his own.
Why do you think that you cannot change that dynamic? What is preventing you from doing it?


inadequate wife said:


> I’m not allowed to use contraception. My husband’s stance is anything that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting is no different than an abortion and is manslaughter. Anything that prevents his semen from getting inside me or damages it isn’t allowed because that wastes it. Natural family planning is allowed but not really encouraged and he won’t abstain twice a month. Masturbation isn’t allowed obviously. Only god can decide how many children we have. I don’t want anymore… I can’t handle it. Breastfeeding and co-sleeping are supposed to prevent pregnancy and that is what the church recommends. I feed on demand, wear my babies, co-sleep and that hasn’t worked for me as well as it has for other families at our church. I’m nursing my 9 month old and 20 month old, and weaning my 3 year old. I conceived at 2-12 months postpartum. My baby is 9 months old so any time now.


Traditionally, the women stopped having sex to prevent pregnancy… that was before birth control was invented.


inadequate wife said:


> My husband isn’t against most medical care. He believes the church is a hospital for healing and depression can be healed through prayer. I don’t think he will let me talk to anyone outside of the church and their opinion might not differ from my husbands. It has been like this for so long that it’s not fair for me to change it now. He has never hit me but I am still scared to be assertive. Even if I wanted to I don’t know how. If I could make him happy then I wouldn’t have this to complain about. He won’t divorce me but I don’t want him to be miserable with me for the rest of our lives. He isn’t abusive. He isn’t perfect but I love him.


Your husband’s opinion on Catholicism, medicine and hospitals makes no sense at all. Since the middle ages, the Catholic Church has run hospitals. They have also funded huge amounts of medical and scientific research. At one time they were the main funder of medial & scientific research. 


inadequate wife said:


> Is it wrong of me to see a counsellor behind his back? Is that ever okay?


Yes, it’s ok to see a counselor behind his back. When a husband mistreats his wife, prevents her from getting the medial help she needs and does nothing to help with household chores and child rearing, he has advocated his right to have any say in things like counseling. Nothing the in Church says that a woman has to obey an abusive, controlling husband.


inadequate wife said:


> He likes building electronic models and model cars and airplanes. He golfs a lot. In the spring, summer and fall he golfs with his friends every Saturday and he’s gone for 6 hours. In the winter he spends Saturdays at an indoor golf place for 3-4 hours. In his other spare time he works on models at home and says the kids can when they are old enough. On Tuesdays and Sundays he plays D&D from 9PM-12AM. Sometimes later. Then complains the next day that he’s tired. If he isn’t doing any of that he goes out with his friends, plays a video game online with his friends, works out, or is on his computer or phone. He has said that he knows it’s not fair that he has time to himself and I don’t but that it’s just the way it is.


Wow, he’s a piece of work. He should be ashamed of himself… he does this and will not even allow you to go for a walk. Yea he says that’s the way it is because he’s a self-centered, abusive person.



inadequate wife said:


> On Sundays we go to church then go out as a family. That’s our only real family time.


Sad, just sad.



inadequate wife said:


> I do need a support system. I only have my husband. I develop feelings for other men very easily and I know that’s not okay. If a man helps me with something small I instantly have feelings for that person. That’s not okay. I avoid social situations and talking to people. Now most people think I’m not friendly. He wants me to connect with people at our church but it’s hard for me. I’m not religious. I do it for my husband but it puts me in a weird area that I don’t feel like I fit in with either side. Religious or non-religious.


I’ve belonged to groups at church. The groups really were not all that religious. Yea they say a prayer at some point. But mostly we did things, social things, volunteer work, etc.


inadequate wife said:


> Outside of the church I feel judged for being young and having a large family. Does group counselling feel judgmental?


No, group counseling does not feel judgmental. The whole point of it is to be supportive of you and to help you grow as a person and fix the problems in your life.


inadequate wife said:


> I shouldn’t be talking about our sex life. That’s immodest.


Adults talk about sex. Once again, you said almost nothing about your sexlife.


inadequate wife said:


> Shopping is hard. I have to wear my baby, 20 month old and 3 year old go in the cart, 4 year old tries to run away, and my 6 year old helps grab things. I try and get in and out as fast as I can. Doing grocery pick up would be easier because I wouldn’t even have to go into the store. My husband thinks it’s lazy and I shouldn’t do things behind his back. I need to be assertive and tell him I’m going to start doing that. It shouldn’t be so hard for me to express a different opinion or be assertive once.


Your husband feels it’s lazy. I agree that under normal circumstance you should not do anything behind his back. But your husband is creating an environment in which he is not supportive of you. He should be supportive of anything that helps you do your job and wife and mother.

Actually, what you should do is to make the order on-line and then he should just pick it up on his way home after work. If you can start talking to people at the church you might want to bring up this one thing… shopping, the fact that you need help and he things that ordering online and then picking up the order is being lazy. Ask them to help you talk to him to get him to agree that it’s a good idea and that he should actually just pick it up on the way home.

Does your Church offer counselling? Many, if not most do. Here where I live Catholic Social Services offers counseling and all kinds of help to people regardless of their religious beliefs. This is a world-wide organization. They should have a facility near where you live.


inadequate wife said:


> My husband does not take our children out alone or stay home with all of them. He has never been alone with all of our children. He will take care of them long enough for me to shower quickly. After I’ve had each baby my midwife and doula came by often for the first two months because they knew I


needed help. That does bother me. We are in Canada so we have parental leave and his company tops up his parental leave to be 100% of his salary. He has taken parental leave with each child from 3 months to a full year and still doesn’t help. He helped less. [/QUOTE]
Does he realize that he’s not a good father? Does he realize that his children are going to grow up and have contempt for him?


inadequate wife said:


> I use to not care when the kids were messy. It’s become harder and harder to manage. Sometimes my older two will say that we need to clean the whole house before dad gets home or he’ll be mad. I don’t want them to live like that. If they do something they shouldn’t they tell me not to tell my husband because they don’t want him to yell at them. He rarely yells at them though. When he does parent them he’s very gentle.


You need to get into counseling.


inadequate wife said:


> My husband wouldn’t have an affair. He dated before me but we have only been with each other. An affair goes against everything he believe in. He wouldn’t do that. .


You would be shocked what people justify, even if it goes against their own belief. He spends a lot of time away from you when he’s not at work. He could be doing anything, you would have no way of knowing. I’m not saying that he’s cheating. I’m just saying that people compartmentalize when they feel entitled, and your husband defiantly feels entitled. Have you ever checked his trash? I did with my husband, that’s how I found out that the good Catholic was cheating… there was a letter from his affair partner in the trash by his desk in our house. Have you checked his phone bill to see if there is one number that he is in contact with a lot?


inadequate wife said:


> I want to be happy in my marriage. It's the only one I'll have. I love my husband. I know all I'm doing is complaining about him but I love him.


If you want to save this marriage, you have to stop being a door mat. While it’s pretty clear that he’s verbally/emotionally abusive. It’s also clear that you allow this. He can only mistreat you if you allow it.

You have far more power in this marriage than you realize. You need to find your power and use it for the good of your marriage, the good of your children and for yourself.

What is going on in your marriage is harming your children. They will grow up thinking that this is all that they can expect in life. The personality of a child is formed by age 5. The longer you allow this to go on, the more they will be harmed.

I don’t know where you got the idea that you have to allow your husband complete control over you and to abuse you. But that is not what the Catholic Church teaches.


----------



## uhtred

Marriage should be, and in many cases IS about sharing burdens (and joys). Its never right for work, to be unbalanced, or for partners to not each do their fair share.

There are cases where one person works a 40 hour week, the other takes care of the house (for the same amount of time) and then they have the rest of their time together. That is fine - but I doubt that ever works if there are children. 

When couples have children, both parents are busy most of the time - it is the sacrifice couples make for their children.

If your husband earned enough money to hire a cleaning service, and to get other help to take care of all the other chores, then then you could spend your days raising your children, maybe with the help of a nanny, without other distractions. Is he a failure for not providing that income?


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## EleGirl

sunsetmist said:


> I want to be clear as I messed up before. There are many suggestions here, but you are overwhelmed both physically and emotionally--hard to make good decisions/take action at this point. I know of no one who could juggle all you have to do.
> 
> You love your husband. I'm not there and cannot judge his treatment and motives. I would like to suggest that you call the National Domestic Abuse hotline. 1-800-799-SAFE (7233). They are experts who can suggest local contacts/resources. They can educate you and him as well if necessary. I am only trying to suggest resources and not call anything abuse. They also have a chat line 24/7. You can be as anonymous as you choose. Good Luck.


She's in Canada. I'm looking for the Canadian helpline number. Will post it when I find it.


ETA: Here it is...

1-866-863-0511 (Toll Free) 
416-863-0511 (Toronto)

http://www.women.gov.on.ca/owd/english/ending-violence/help/services.shtml


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## EleGirl

@inadequate wife ;

This post is a safety/exit plan. It talks about domestic violence, but really it also applies to people in situations where there is emotional/verbal abuse at the level that you are experiencing.

Keep in mind that when a person, like you, who is living under a lot of emotional/verbal abuse, starts standing up to their abuser the abuser often becomes violent. So be prepared for if this happens. But for you situation as it is now, there are a lot of things in here that you should be doing to put yourself in a better position to stand up to your husband and get him to stop his abusive behavior. And if it gets to the point that you have to leave with your children, it prepares you for that.

There are links to two safety/exit plan info sites.....

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/DV_Safety_Plan.pdf

Safety Planning ? Domestic Violence Resource Center

Below is a safety exist plan that I put together. You can look through all this and take what makes sense for you and make your own plan.....

========================================
Call 911 and they will help you get away.

* The US National Domestic Violence Hotline | 24/7 Confidential Support*
If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 1 800 799 7233.
========================================
In Canada: 
1-866-863-0511 (Toll Free) 
416-863-0511 (Toronto)
I need counselling, health care, mental health or financial services

========================================

It is very hard to leave a marriage. Boy do I know that from experience. There is a way to make it easier… having a plan and having a strong support system. Just work your plan one step at a time. That way you are not look at a huge problem. Instead you are looking at small steps. 

If you search on the internet for "domestic abuse exit plan" or "domestic abuse safety plan" a lot will come up that you can look over. The one below is one that I added some things to base on my own experience.

*Get a support system: *



Find a local organization that provides counseling and help for victims of domestic abuse (emotional and physical). Get into counseling with them. They will have sliding scale counseling.


Also check into legal aid in your area.



Talk to attorneys and do research on the internet to find out your rights in divorce. Check on sites like Amazon for books about divorce in your state. Be informed. Check out legal aid in your area. Ask the domestic abuse organization if they have a list of attorneys who do pro-bono work or very low fee work and how specialize in cases of divorce with domestic abuse. Most will have such a list. Many attorneys will give a half hour free consultation. If you have a good list of questions, you can learn about your rights and how the local court system handles specific issues. You might even find an attorney that you really like.


Let a trusted family member, friend, coworker or neighbors know your situation. Develop a plan for when you need help; code words you can text if in trouble, a visual signal like a porch light: on equals no danger, off equals trouble. 
If you do not have friends of your own, start making them. Even if you don’t share your situation with them, just having a social outlet for you and even your children will help. One way to meet people is to go to www.meetup.com Search for meetup groups in your area. In most areas they have a lot of things to choose from. You just sign up and go.


*Set up a ‘safe address’ and ‘safe storage space’. *



If you have a trusted friend/family-member, ask them if you can use their address for some things and if you can store some things at their place… like a box of important papers. If you do not have someone who will help you out in this way, rent a PO Box and a small storage space. Use the ‘safe addresses for your mail. Use the ‘safe storage space’ to keep important things you will need like:


your mail from the ‘safe address’


All account info and ATM card for your personal checking account


Copies of all financial paperwork, filed tax forms, etc.


Certified copies of birth certificates, marriage license, passports, 


Car title, social security cards, credit cards, 


Citizenship documents (such as your passport, green card, etc.) 


Titles, deeds and other property information 


Medical records


Children's school and immunization records


Insurance information


Verification of social security numbers Make sure you know your husband’s Social Security Number and your son’s. 


Welfare identification


Valued pictures, jewelry or personal possessions
​*Financial Plan*


Consider getting a job as soon as you can if you do not already have one. This will give you access to money and independence.


*Your safety Plan: *

You need a safety plan just in case you need to leave immediately if things get out of hand. 



Know the phone number to your local battered women's shelter. 


Keep your cell phone on you at all times for dialing 911. It’s best to dial 911. You need to establish a record of his abuse. So call 911 and start creating that record. If you think that it is not safe for you to leave, ask the 911 operator to send the police so that they can ensure your and your child’s safety when you leave.


If you are injured, go to a doctor or an emergency room and report what happened to you. Ask that they document your visit. 


Keep a journal of all violent incidences, noting dates, events and threats made. 


Keep any evidence of physical abuse, such as pictures. 


You can get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times when you are around your husband. This way you can get recordings of the abuse. 


Plan with your children and identify a safe place for them. Reassure them that their job is to stay safe, not to protect you.


If you need to sneak away, be prepared. Make a plan for how and where you will escape. 


Back your car into the driveway, and keep it fueled. Keep your driver's door unlocked and other doors locked for a quick escape. 


Hide an extra set of car keys. 


Set money aside. Open a checking account in your name only and put your paycheck (or a portion of it) in that account. Do not use the address of the home you live in with him for this checking account. Use your ”safe address” to the account and keep all of the paperwork related to the account in your “safe storage space”. 


Pack a bag. Include an extra set of keys, IDs, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, credit cards, marriage license, clothes for yourself and your children, shoes, medications, banking information, money" anything that is important to you. Store them at a trusted friend or neighbor's house. Try to avoid using the homes of next-door neighbors, close family members and mutual friends. 


Take important phone numbers of friends, relatives, doctors, schools, etc. 


Know abuser's schedule and safe times to leave. 


Be careful when reaching out for help via Internet or telephone. Erase your Internet browsing history, websites visited for resources, e-mails sent to friends/family asking for help. If you called for help, dial another number immediately after in case abuser hits redial. 


Create a false trail. Call motels, real estate agencies and schools in a town at least six hours away from where you plan to relocate.

*After Leaving the Abusive Relationship*



 *If you get a restraining order, and the offender is leaving the family home: *


Change your locks and phone number. 


Change your work hours and route taken to work. 


Change the route taken to transport children to school. 


Keep a certified copy of your restraining order with you at all times. 


Inform friends, neighbors and employers that you have a restraining order in effect. 


Give copies of the restraining order to employers, neighbors and schools along with a picture of the offender. 


Call law enforcement to enforce the order. 

​


 *If you leave the family home: *



Do not leave your children with your abusive spouse/partner. Take them with you. Talk to your attorney and/or the abuse organization counselors to make sure you do this in a way that will not jeopardize your future custody rights. You don’t want to look like you are kidnapping your children.


Consider renting a post office box or using the address of a friend for your mail. Be aware that addresses are on restraining orders and police reports. Be careful to whom you give your new address and phone number. 


Change your work hours, if possible. 


Alert school authorities of the situation. 


Consider changing your children's schools. 


Reschedule appointments if the offender is aware of them. 


Use different stores and frequent different social spots. 


Alert neighbors, and request that they call the police if they feel you may be in danger. 


Talk to trusted people about the violence. 


Replace wooden doors with steel or metal doors. Install security systems if possible. Install a motion sensitive lighting system. 


Tell people you work with about the situation and have your calls screened by one receptionist if possible. 


Tell people who take care of your children who can pick up your children. Explain your situation to them and provide them with a copy of the restraining order. 


Call the telephone company to request caller ID. Ask that your phone number be blocked so that if you call anyone, neither your partner nor anyone else will be able to get your new, unlisted phone number.

​ 
Here are some ways you can find out things about your finances and some about how you can start saving money in your own name. I’m not putting them on the open forum because I don’t want to tip off people who are abusers.

Some of this might sound crazy. But you are completely in the dark and these are ways that people I know, even I, got the info we needed so that our spouse could not rip us off in a divorce.

Check his wallet and get photographs of any cards and other info that he has in there to include his driver’s license. Make sure to save them somewhere that he cannot get to, like on the cloud.

If he has a brief case do the same thing to it. Do you have a scanner at home? If not get one. I have a small portable that’s easy to use. That’s all you need. Just scan everything in his briefcase into pdf or jpgs. And again keep that info in a cloud account.

If you do use a cloud account, make sure that it does not create an account on your PC that he could see. There is a way to prevent that.

Does he have a home office or a place at home where he works sometimes? If so search it (often). Check the trash.. (I found out all kinds of stuff about my husband by searching his trash. Like I found letters from his affair partner. That’s how I found out about one of his affairs. I also found receipts and statements showing that he was moving money that I earned into accounts and investments in his and his mother’s name. 

Another thing that you might want to try is to go through the trash from his business if you can get to it. Just snatch the bags of trash out of the trash bin into your car, take them some place where he will not see you go through it and search. I kid you not, you can find stuff.

Get a key to his car. Make one if you need to. Then search it often. Search every cranny. Again I found all kinds of info that way. My then husband was hiding papers in the well where the spare tire and tools go. When he traveled, I drove to the airport, found his car in long-term parking and searched it. He was using his car to hide things while he traveled.

Get online and order his credit report. It could lead to all kinds of info on accounts he has.

Search the court records for any law suits. If he has a business, it might have been sued and he might have had to disclose financial info. Here where I live there is a website for the state of New Mexico where we can search on a person’s name to find all court cases of any kind… to include if they were sued, arrested and charged, divorced, etc. I’m sure that New York has something similar.

Make sure that you take an inventory of everything of value in your home. Take photos of everything. And do a walking inventory through the house. That way he cannot hide or dispose of things of value during a divorce.
=========================================
Now about money

Then open bank accounts in your name only. Use an address other than your home address. Also do electronic statements, etc. so that there is no paperwork for him to find. You can open a bank account with as little as $25.

If at all possible, every time you go to a store, get out cash. Even if it’s $10. I know a woman who did this. She’d get out between $40 and $60 with every purchase. It added up… to thousands over a few year period. Make sure that you throw away the receipts before you get home or keep them where he cannot find them. Do not put them in your home trash.

Go through your house and sell anything that you can. Just tell him that you are wanting to simplify your life and declutter. List things on craigslist and sell it. Put the money in your bank account.
Here is a link to a thread about evidence gathering.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## Adelais

Now is the time to start teaching your 4 ½ and 7 year old how to have a morning routine, afternoon routine, night time routine, and playtime clean-up routine. The link below is to a lady who has done the work of designing cards with pictures (and words) that the children can look at to establish a routine: Get up, make bed, put on clothes, brush teeth, brush hair, wash face, etc. and do it on their own. Some moms laminate them, punch a hole in the top of each one and puts them on a big ring so the child can grab them, flip through them and hang them back up when they are finished with the routine.

https://themilitarywifeandmom.com/printable-daily-schedule-for-kids/

Here are easy flip booklets that I have used to teach my children how to clean their room, do laundry, and when they get older do other quick “zone” cleaning. These will be good for you now with your little boy who makes a big mess in the playroom or wherever. The link is to all three booklets, for a cheaper bundle price. The first one you’ll probably use is the Bedroom one. It makes cleaning up big messes a lot more manageable and less stressful.

https://timestales.com/collections/...-laundry-mini-bedroom-clean-n-flip-bundle-kit

Today I used the Bedroom Clean ‘n’ Flip book (with a little modification since I don’t have 4 laundry baskets) today with my 16 year old daughter who is very messy, probably because she is the youngest and was overlooked because of my dealing with my husband’s infidelity years ago, and the fallout afterwards. I’m playing catchup with her. I used one laundry basket for things to save, but put away later, a trash bin, and a dirty clothes hamper. Everything on her floor and stacked on her dresser went in one of those immediately. Then the laundry basket full of stuff to keep was emptied one item at a time, putting each thing in the proper place…..not back on top of her dresser or on the floor!

These cards will give you ideas of chores they can do and they help the children remember what to do each day.

https://themilitarywifeandmom.com/printable-chore-cards-kids-responsibility/

I used all three of the things I recommended to you to help establish different areas of responsibility and routines.
You can have a less hectic home, and teach your children to do age appropriate chores. You will be doing them a huge favor by teaching them to work in the home. My 23 year old son told me that he learned his work ethic at home since he had regular chores to do. He has a roommate who doesn’t know how to do much of anything in their apartment, but my son knows how take care of himself and his apartment.

I have a feeling that your son is uncooperative because his dad has modeled that. You have a tough road ahead of you, breaking that attitude in him. You must teach your son that men are also supposed to work around the house. Tell him that, and show him the booklets, that have boys as well as girls doing household chores. You don't want your son growing up and treating his wife the way his father treats you, do you? You have the power to break that cycle of laziness and male entitlement that his father learned for his father.

You are the Queen of your home. Take back your power, and if you never had power, take up your power for the first time. There are many women with good resources to help you be a successful mother, homemaker and role model in your home.


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## uhtred

One comment on the anti-depressants. If someone is in a terrible situation, which I think is the case for the OP, its normal to be very unhappy. I think the correct approach there is to find a way to escape the situation. I think antidepressants are appropriate for someone who is depressed, without clear external cause.


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## EleGirl

uhtred said:


> One comment on the anti-depressants. If someone is in a terrible situation, which I think is the case for the OP, its normal to be very unhappy. I think the correct approach there is to find a way to escape the situation. I think antidepressants are appropriate for someone who is depressed, without clear external cause.


Having been in a similar situation, I found that using antidepressants helps. They help a person by removing the mental anguish and allowing a person to thing straight.

If the OP has postpartum depression, then the situation itself is not the only problem causing depression. It's a real medical condition.

Otherwise, situational depression is very real and can be debilitating. With antidepressants a person can more easily handle the problems. And once their life is in order, they can discontinue the meds.


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## john117

inadequate wife said:


> My husband isn't unreasonable. He works all day. I stay home. The least I should be able to do is manage the home.


My soon to be history wife of 35 years was an awesome cook and housekeeper. Not a small task since she works outside the house and said house was 6,000 sq ft. 

Doing so she neglected her daughters and husband. Quite intentionally I might say. 

I'd rather have a participating partner than a perfectionist bozo as a partner.


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## Adelais

When I had post partem depression the Dr. put me on Prozac. It only took a couple of days for the cloud that was over my head all the time to move over and let some sunlight on me. It literally felt like that. Do consider asking for antidepression meds. They don't affect your thinking. Your husband is wrong that they mask problems. They just take away the overshadowing darkness/hopelessness so you can take another step and keep going with a clear head and heart.


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## inadequate wife

I don’t think my husband is a narcissist or a bad man. He only treats me this way. He is very involved with his friends and church. He is empathetic towards others. Not me. He is a good parent when he parents. He goes out of his way to help others. I don’t receive the same treatment as others because I’m a bad wife. I watched the videos and I read a website with 50 signs of narcissism many were answered yes. He is only like that with me though. He has a lot of friends and is well liked. He is well liked in our church. He is completely different around other people or when we are in public. It’s my fault for letting it happen. I read about gas lighting and parts of that read familiar. 

Our church does do marital counselling. It might help. The man is the head of the family and he has authority over the wife but I know he isn’t treating me the way he should. It isn’t supposed to take away my equality or be a dictator. Even on the Islam side men are the head of the household and the wife obeys her husband but the husband treats his wife with affection, courtesy and mercy not be a dictator. Whichever he is using he’s doing it wrong. I know that. He has to know that too. The link with the 10 commandments of a husband and father. My husband doesn’t do any of those except the first and last maybe. Going to our church and talking could help with that. I can ask about antidepressants and maybe it will help my husband understand that they are okay. My husband said he would go with me. 

My husband thinks discussing our sex life with absolutely anyone is unacceptable. It is private and between him and I. It makes it hard because sex isn’t really talked about and we stopped talking about it years ago. Through elementary and high school all that was taught about sex was to wait until marriage or no man will want you, pictures of STD’s, oral sex is disgusting, anal sex is forbidden, and sex is to create children and pleasure is a bonus. My family didn’t talk about sex. I still have a chastity card that I signed 18 years ago. I completely stopped believing in a god in high school but all of that stuck. My husband and I waited until we were married to even kiss. Our first kiss at our wedding was our first kiss. Going from being told that sex is bad and not to do it, to getting the green light and expected to have a great sex life was hard. It’s still hard. Hopefully that’s okay to say. 

The birth control situation is what it is. That isn’t going to change. IUD’s are abortifacients. Conception can still take place but implantation cannot occur. Copper IUD’s kill sperm which isn’t allow either. The only allowed method is natural family planning. Nothing can be done to prevent pregnancy aside from abstaining on fertile days. Which our church allows but doesn’t recommend. Withdrawal method isn’t allowed. All sexual pleasure must end with the man having an orgasm in the vagina. Sex is essential to marriage. We can’t abstain long term. I need my husband to get on board with NFP. 

I’ve done things to prevent pregnancy. I shouldn’t even say that. No one knows. My husband would never forgive me. I deliberately lied and hid it. It makes me feel horrible and like I’m living a lie. It’s hard because my husband’s beliefs are not my beliefs but at the same time they are in a way. I know certain things are not true but they feel brainwashed in to the point that I don’t know what I think anymore. 

Our marriage dynamic closely resembles the dynamic that my MIL and FIL have. That’s why I don’t know if I can get the dynamic to change. 

Should my husband be as attracted to me now as he was before we had children? Or is the husband losing attraction part of marriage? My last pregnancy did the most to my body. I got pregnant at 2 months postpartum and my body didn’t have any time to heal before starting over again. 

He is an engineer. How did you figure that out? I don’t want to say exactly what he does but his degrees are in mechatronic and aerospace engineering. He gives me one sentence about how his day went so I couldn’t really say what his day to day work is like. The commute is harder on him than the work. He hates sitting in traffic.

Do we read those books together? “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. I am going to look more into the groups through our church. I bought the routine cards and ordered the chore bundle. Thank you for that recommendation. I don’t like labelling my kids. My 4.5 year old has been my most difficult child. It could be from him modelling my husband. I don’t want that. 

Is he really so bad that I need to be planning on how to leave him or be safe around him? He has never hurt anyone. I can’t come to terms with the idea that my husband could be abusive. He doesn’t ever put his hands on me. If he is mentally abusive how can I be married to him and not realize? Is their any hope for our marriage to get better? I don’t want a divorce. I won’t do that. I would never even threaten divorce. But if he’s going to be abusive what else am I supposed to do. 

Do you actually think he could be having an affair? That terrifies me. We have only been with each other and he wouldn’t do that. Can he really have the beliefs that he has and have an affair? I’m the only one who should experience my husband. He is supposed to be mine. I have never gone through his things. I would never think to go through his garbage. I have never had a reason to think I needed to invade his privacy and not trust him. If he’s having an affair that makes me look even worse. I’m that bad that I could have pushed him to have an affair. Something he is completely against. 

I feel bad talking poorly about my marriage. I shouldn’t be doing anything that I need to hide from my husband. I just want my marriage to be better.


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## Violet28

Do you believe that you are responsible 100% for the state of your marriage? What percent is your husband responsible for? Marriage is a give and take, you can't make the marriage better by yourself, he has to do some work too.


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## BioFury

inadequate wife said:


> I don’t think my husband is a narcissist or a bad man. He only treats me this way. He is very involved with his friends and church. He is empathetic towards others. Not me. He is a good parent when he parents. He goes out of his way to help others. I don’t receive the same treatment as others because I’m a bad wife. I watched the videos and I read a website with 50 signs of narcissism many were answered yes. He is only like that with me though. He has a lot of friends and is well liked. He is well liked in our church. He is completely different around other people or when we are in public. It’s my fault for letting it happen. I read about gas lighting and parts of that read familiar.


Narcissists are nearly always well liked by their friends and extended family. They have a public face, and then a private one for their immediate family. 

Your husband is a garden variety narcissist. This problem isn't going to get better, unless you stop the "I'm such a bad person", stop putting your husband on a pedestal, and recognize who causes all the contention in your relationship.

But if you don't believe me, buy a couple voice activated recorders. Record your interactions with your husband for a few weeks, and then take them to a therapist of your choosing. See what they say.


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## TBT

inadequate wife said:


> If he is mentally abusive how can I be married to him and not realize?


I think you do realize,seeing all you've posted here and the acceptance of all the negatives of yourself that he has you believing. What do you think that the people that you say he treats well,and seem to hold him in high regard,would say or think if they knew how he treated you? It's also very telling of your real opinion of him when you say in your post that you don't want your young son to be like him.

I feel terrible about the situation you're in,but even more so for the skewed view you have of yourself. If you were doing and saying the same things to him as he has to you,then what would you honestly think of yourself? If you had him believing he was a bad husband and lousy father without really caring about how he was affected,then what kind of person would you be? Look at him the same way that you would look at yourself in those situations.

Hope you find some peace,truly.


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## EleGirl

inadequate wife said:


> I don’t think my husband is a narcissist or a bad man. He only treats me this way. He is very involved with his friends and church. He is empathetic towards others. Not me. He is a good parent when he parents. He goes out of his way to help others. I don’t receive the same treatment as others because I’m a bad wife. I watched the videos and I read a website with 50 signs of narcissism many were answered yes. He is only like that with me though. He has a lot of friends and is well liked. He is well liked in our church. He is completely different around other people or when we are in public.


Of course, he interacts with everyone else differently. That is classic in abuse. Abusers usually only abuse their wife and they only do it in the privacy of their own home. Or at least when no one outside the immediate family can see them.
Does he treat you much better when you are at church and/or out in public? Or does he put you down in front of everyone at church?


inadequate wife said:


> It’s my fault for letting it happen. I read about gas lighting and parts of that read familiar.


I it’s said that it’s your fault for letting it happen, what is meant is that you have a lot of power if you would only use it. You are only responsible for your own actions.

You do not make him mistreat you. You have no respopnslibty for him treating you badly. He learned it from watching his father mistreat his mother. And now he has chosen to treat you that way. He is 100% responsible for his actions.


inadequate wife said:


> Our church does do marital counselling. It might help. The man is the head of the family and he has authority over the wife but I know he isn’t treating me the way he should. It isn’t supposed to take away my equality or be a dictator. Even on the Islam side men are the head of the household and the wife obeys her husband but the husband treats his wife with affection, courtesy and mercy not be a dictator. Whichever he is using he’s doing it wrong. I know that. He has to know that too. The link with the 10 commandments of a husband and father. My husband doesn’t do any of those except the first and last maybe. Going to our church and talking could help with that. I can ask about antidepressants and maybe it will help my husband understand that they are okay. My husband said he would go with me.


Yes, seek out counseling at your church. The Catholic Church also has programs and retreats for married couples. That would help as well.


inadequate wife said:


> Through elementary and high school all that was taught about sex was to wait until marriage or no man will want you, pictures of STD’s, oral sex is disgusting, anal sex is forbidden, and sex is to create children and pleasure is a bonus. My family didn’t talk about sex. I still have a chastity card that I signed 18 years ago. I completely stopped believing in a god in high school but all of that stuck. My husband and I waited until we were married to even kiss. Our first kiss at our wedding was our first kiss. Going from being told that sex is bad and not to do it, to getting the green light and expected to have a great sex life was hard. It’s still hard. Hopefully that’s okay to say.


I’ve known a lot of Catholic girls who went to Catholic high school. I don’t think their schools’ taught sex ed the way you experienced. Catholics don’t normally teach that sex is bad. Is more of sex is great but wait till marriage. When I married, we had a session with our Bishop. He told us that in marriage whatever you do sexually is good. After all there are sections of the Bible that sort of read like a porn story. I thought that the Canadian Catholics were far more liberal than even the US Catholics.


inadequate wife said:


> The birth control situation is what it is. That isn’t going to change. IUD’s are abortifacients. Conception can still take place but implantation cannot occur. Copper IUD’s kill sperm which isn’t allow either. The only allowed method is natural family planning. Nothing can be done to prevent pregnancy aside from abstaining on fertile days. Which our church allows but doesn’t recommend. Withdrawal method isn’t allowed. All sexual pleasure must end with the man having an orgasm in the vagina. Sex is essential to marriage. We can’t abstain long term. I need my husband to get on board with NFP.


Well, you have had a lot of children thus far. And you have been lucky that you have not had any really bad pregnancies. The more pregnancies you have, the more likely you are to have a hard pregnancies. My mom had two bad pregnancies in which the babies were still born. After that she had to pregnancies that ended with c-sections. She almost died in both of them. In the old days, when women used to have an average of 8 pregnancies in their lifetime, 25% of women died in child birth. I’m really not trying to scare you. Instead I’m pointing out that you are physically and mentally exhausted. If you got pregnant in your current condition, it would be a very bad thing. Talk to your doctor about this. 


inadequate wife said:


> I’ve done things to prevent pregnancy. I shouldn’t even say that. No one knows. My husband would never forgive me. I deliberately lied and hid it. It makes me feel horrible and like I’m living a lie. It’s hard because my husband’s beliefs are not my beliefs but at the same time they are in a way. I know certain things are not true but they feel brainwashed in to the point that I don’t know what I think anymore.


And with your depression, mental/physical exhaustion, I’m sure that you didn’t have the energy to contemplate these things you feel brainwashed of. A priest told me once that a good Catholic is not someone who just believes what they are told by the Church. A good Catholic questions everything and seeks out the truth, challenges the status quo and arrives at the truth… even if the truth differs. Most of the Saint are people who when through this sort of struggle. Now you don’t have to go off to a cave for 10 years for this. But you really should have time and energy in your life to deal with the things that you feel brainwashed about.

God never meant for women to just be baby factories and house maids. Your current life is not allow you time to really live.


inadequate wife said:


> Our marriage dynamic closely resembles the dynamic that my MIL and FIL have. That’s why I don’t know if I can get the dynamic to change.


I’m not surprised it resembles the family your husband grew up it. I sort of figured that was the case. This is usually a learned behavior. You could be the person who leads your husband to change. It would be a great gift not only for your husband, but for your children. Like you said, your 4.5 year old is already acting like his father. That’s very sad. If you will not find your power and influence in your marriage for yourself, find it for your son and the other children.


inadequate wife said:


> Should my husband be as attracted to me now as he was before we had children? Or is the husband losing attraction part of marriage? My last pregnancy did the most to my body. I got pregnant at 2 months postpartum and my body didn’t have any time to heal before starting over again.


Yes, your husband should be attracted to you now even after the years and the children. It should be a more mature attraction based on love. You are the mother of his children. You have given him what no other woman has given him. 


inadequate wife said:


> Do we read those books together? “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. I am going to look more into the groups through our church. I bought the routine cards and ordered the chore bundle. Thank you for that recommendation. I don’t like labelling my kids. My 4.5 year old has been my most difficult child. It could be from him modelling my husband. I don’t want that.


You should read the “Why does he do that book.” For yourself. That’s not for him to read but for you so you understand the dynamic of why he’s being controlling and abusive. I can help you learn how to deal with him and what you need to do.

The books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs” are first for you. Read them in that order, “Love Busters” first. What I suggest is that you read them first and do the work they say to do. The idea is that you will learn a lot and grow a lot as a wife. Then you can ask him to read them with you and do the work together.



inadequate wife said:


> Is he really so bad that I need to be planning on how to leave him or be safe around him? He has never hurt anyone. I can’t come to terms with the idea that my husband could be abusive. He doesn’t ever put his hands on me. If he is mentally abusive how can I be married to him and not realize? Is their any hope for our marriage to get better? I don’t want a divorce. I won’t do that. I would never even threaten divorce. But if he’s going to be abusive what else am I supposed to do.


It is very normal for a woman who is married to a verbally/mentally abusive man and not realize it for a long time. Usually the woman does not realize it until she reaches the point you are at… the point where she is seriously depressed and has lost herself identity. Women make excuses to cover what their abusers do because it helps them pretend that everything is ok… until they get to the point you are at now. 
You are still making excuses for him on this thread. That’s ok because you need to contemplate all this. It will take you time to fully own the realization that he’s abusive and you have zero responsibility for his actions.
Only you can decide if it ever gets to the point where you have to leave him. But I do believe that things are bad enough that you need to think about the things in that plan I posted for you.


inadequate wife said:


> Do you actually think he could be having an affair? That terrifies me. We have only been with each other and he wouldn’t do that. Can he really have the beliefs that he has and have an affair? I’m the only one who should experience my husband. He is supposed to be mine. I have never gone through his things. I would never think to go through his garbage. I have never had a reason to think I needed to invade his privacy and not trust him.


There idea is to “Trust but verify.” There should be no privacy in marriage. The way I’ve heard it put is that in marriage, privacy means that you can close the door when you go to the bathroom. Everything else is open to both of you.

You are as one, so anything that one of you has is as though you both have it. So, you should be able to open his mail, see his phone 



inadequate wife said:


> If he’s having an affair that makes me look even worse. I’m that bad that I could have pushed him to have an affair. Something he is completely against.


What? Why would it make you look bad if he decides to do something so horrible as have an affair? Why would you think you would have pushed him to have an affair?

Did you grow up in a family that mad you feel guilty for everything? Your self deprecation is so deep that it’s rather astonishing. You really need counseling so that you learn to understand your own worth and power.



inadequate wife said:


> I feel bad talking poorly about my marriage. I shouldn’t be doing anything that I need to hide from my husband. I just want my marriage to be better.


You have the right to talk honestly about your marriage and to get input that you can use to better your situation. In order to get help, you have to tell the truth, even when the truth is hard to tell.


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## Spicy

He has really damaged you. Maybe you can’t see that from the inside looking out. It is so sad to hear you talk about yourself like this.

He does not appear to love and cherish you. 

Tell us *when is the last time you felt cherished?*

Is it ok for him to not follow bible principals but you have to even though you don’t believe in God? 

Which brings me to my next question, if YOU don’t believe in God, why do YOU have to follow bible rules in regard to medical decisions on your own body? I would have an IUD put in tomorrow. Or take the pill or whatever concteption (if any) you would feel is ok to use. The IUD is great because there is no pills or prescriptions to be discovered, and you are covered for like 5-7 years. 

Ultimately though I am hearing that you are not willing to change the core problems, mostly out of fear, self degradation, and imposed rules. Without changing those things, you will just remain in this awful situation (which will got worse) until you give up and leave. If you want to save this marriage, I would start tweaking these problems, or else one day you will just be fed up and leave completely, and never look back.


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## Beach123

It is YOUR body and you should feel allowed to decide about your own body!!

No church should be allowed to control you that way!

That’s not right... they live to control you.

And yes, I was raised Catholic. But I have a mind and thoughts of my own about what I do with my own body.

God gave you a brain, right? Use it as you wish!


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## MattMatt

One reason your husband doesn't treat outsiders as badly as he treats you is because he is aware other people would call him on his bad behaviour.


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## In Absentia

He's being unreasonable and his religious beliefs are damaging you and your relationship. He will never change. You need to find a safe place for yourself and your kids and get out of this relationship, even if you love him (although I don't understand how you can love someone who treats yo like this). Ring the numbers and ask for help.


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## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> One comment on the anti-depressants. If someone is in a terrible situation, which I think is the case for the OP, its normal to be very unhappy. I think the correct approach there is to find a way to escape the situation. I think antidepressants are appropriate for someone who is depressed, without clear external cause.


Depression and external cause can be very linked. Antidepressants can be a very helpful tool to deal with the lethargy (not quite strong enough word to describe it, but all I have right now) that makes change even harder than usual. When the "external cause" has PPD as part of the scenario, they can be VERY helpful.


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## NobodySpecial

EleGirl said:


> Having been in a similar situation, I found that using antidepressants helps. They help a person by removing the mental anguish and allowing a person to thing straight.
> 
> If the OP has postpartum depression, then the situation itself is not the only problem causing depression. It's a real medical condition.


For some reason, when an "external" thing causes a physical ailment like getting hit with a bat causing a broken limb, people don't think that is not a "real medical condition". But when external factors cause depression, the stigma is that the person in question just needs to put on their big girl/boy panties and get 'er done. I say this not to be critical of any poster(s) who commented this way but to indicate to the OP that depression is a) totally normal and b) something that can be helped if not cured.



> Otherwise, situational depression is very real and can be debilitating. With antidepressants a person can more easily handle the problems. And once their life is in order, they can discontinue the meds.


What she said.


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## NobodySpecial

Spicy said:


> He has really damaged you. Maybe you can’t see that from the inside looking out. It is so sad to hear you talk about yourself like this.
> 
> He does not appear to love and cherish you.
> 
> Tell us *when is the last time you felt cherished?*
> 
> Is it ok for him to not follow bible principals but you have to even though you don’t believe in God?
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, if YOU don’t believe in God, why do YOU have to follow bible rules in regard to medical decisions on your own body? I would have an IUD put in tomorrow. Or take the pill or whatever concteption (if any) you would feel is ok to use. The IUD is great because there is no pills or prescriptions to be discovered, and you are covered for like 5-7 years.


With regard to discovery, the little hanging bit CAN be felt sometimes. Just throwing that out there.



> Ultimately though I am hearing that you are not willing to change the core problems, mostly out of fear, self degradation, and imposed rules. Without changing those things, you will just remain in this awful situation (which will got worse) until you give up and leave. If you want to save this marriage, I would start tweaking these problems, or else one day you will just be fed up and leave completely, and never look back.


Yes.


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## NobodySpecial

inadequate wife said:


> I don’t think my husband is a narcissist or a bad man. He only treats me this way. He is very involved with his friends and church. He is empathetic towards others. Not me. He is a good parent when he parents. He goes out of his way to help others. I don’t receive the same treatment as others *because I’m a bad wife*. I watched the videos and I read a website with 50 signs of narcissism many were answered yes.


Narcism is the new pop diagnosis that people who like to be arm chair psychs. What I have bolded above is classic abuser tactic. Look, no one wakes up in the morning thinking, I am going to abuse my spouse today! THEY believe their victim is **** because they need to. For whatever compulsion drives an abuser, this is a key way of thinking they are correct. Their spouse deserves the treatment that they are given.

There is no amount of housekeeping, parenting effort that you can do to "prove" your worth as a wife to him. Because finding fault with you is part of his own mental issues... around self esteem? Inadequacy? Who knows. That is between him and whatever counselor he ultimately does not get because abusers very, very rarely admit to themselves that THEY have a problem.




> He is only like that with me though. He has a lot of friends and is well liked. He is well liked in our church. He is completely different around other people or when we are in public. It’s my fault for letting it happen. I read about gas lighting and parts of that read familiar.
> 
> Our church does do marital counselling. It might help. The man is the head of the family and he has authority over the wife but I know he isn’t treating me the way he should.


I am not sure it is important at this point. But why do you cede to HIS religious beliefs if they are not yours?



> It isn’t supposed to take away my equality or be a dictator. Even on the Islam side men are the head of the household and the wife obeys her husband but the husband treats his wife with affection, courtesy and mercy not be a dictator. Whichever he is using he’s doing it wrong. I know that. He has to know that too.


He does not "have" to know that. His actions are not primarily driven by logic or by belief. He is cherry picking his belief to support his mental actions.



> The link with the 10 commandments of a husband and father. My husband doesn’t do any of those except the first and last maybe. Going to our church and talking could help with that. I can ask about antidepressants and maybe it will help my husband understand that they are okay. My husband said he would go with me.
> 
> My husband thinks discussing our sex life with absolutely anyone is unacceptable. It is private and between him and I. It makes it hard because sex isn’t really talked about and we stopped talking about it years ago.


Handy for him, isn't it? 



> Through elementary and high school all that was taught about sex was to wait until marriage or no man will want you, pictures of STD’s, oral sex is disgusting, anal sex is forbidden, and sex is to create children and pleasure is a bonus. My family didn’t talk about sex. I still have a chastity card that I signed 18 years ago. I completely stopped believing in a god in high school but all of that stuck. My husband and I waited until we were married to even kiss. Our first kiss at our wedding was our first kiss. Going from being told that sex is bad and not to do it, to getting the green light and expected to have a great sex life was hard. It’s still hard. Hopefully that’s okay to say.


YES it is OK to say what is on your mind. YES it is ok to have your own feelings. Many of us TOTALLY understand this paragraph. 



> The birth control situation is what it is. That isn’t going to change. IUD’s are abortifacients. Conception can still take place but implantation cannot occur. Copper IUD’s kill sperm which isn’t allow either. The only allowed method is natural family planning. Nothing can be done to prevent pregnancy aside from abstaining on fertile days. Which our church allows but doesn’t recommend. *Withdrawal method isn’t allowed. All sexual pleasure must end with the man having an orgasm in the vagina.* Sex is essential to marriage. We can’t abstain long term. I need my husband to get on board with NFP.


Not sure what weird Catholic sect this is, but it is not the Roman Catholic that I was raised with. 



> I’ve done things to prevent pregnancy. I shouldn’t even say that. No one knows. My husband would never forgive me. I deliberately lied and hid it. It makes me feel horrible and like I’m living a lie. It’s hard because my husband’s beliefs are not my beliefs but at the same time they are in a way. _I know certain things are not true but they feel brainwashed in to the point that I don’t know what I think anymore. _


Personally I would be chewing Plan B pills like they were candy and hiding it for all I am worth. The next time you wonder about gaslighting, be clear that not only is it occuring, it is working. You don't know what to think anymore.



> Our marriage dynamic closely resembles the dynamic that my MIL and FIL have. That’s why I don’t know if I can get the dynamic to change.
> 
> Should my husband be as attracted to me now as he was before we had children? Or is the husband losing attraction part of marriage? My last pregnancy did the most to my body. I got pregnant at 2 months postpartum and my body didn’t have any time to heal before starting over again.


Your husband is a monster for doing this to you. A MONSTER. I can't even read any more. I wish you the best.


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## personofinterest

OK, I am just popping in again to tell you that my heart goes out to you. I don't usually offer this for privacy reasons, but if you want to send me a pm, you are welcome to. I understand spiritual abuse pretty well.

I confess, I was also catching up to see if anyone was still ridiculous enough to try to justify anything at all that your husband is doing. Thank goodness no one is that stupid.


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## Flood Light Forty

NobodySpecial said:


> With regard to discovery, the little hanging bit CAN be felt sometimes. Just throwing that out there.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


That little hanging thing used to cause me all kinds of problems. It hurt a bit. Just can't go as deep when she's got one.


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## uhtred

OP: Is your husband really doing his fair share of the work? If you look at the total hours he spends working and commuting, how does it compare with the total hours you spend taking care of the house and kids? 

Another issue - you can't keep having unprotected sex and having children. It will destroy you physically, and it will use all your time and energy - not to mention just the financial issues. If you can't have a reasonable discussion with your husband about this, that is another very bad sign for the marriage. Do other women in the church have so many children? You have to find a way that is acceptable to your religion to not keep getting pregnant. 

We only see what you post, we can't know everything that is going on, but I think its clear that most people here think you are being treated extremely badly. This is not what a normal loving marriage is like.


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## fotf17

Good gravy, I can't even unpack the level of ****ty-ness your husband is. The fact that your first inclination is to believe you're the reason for your poor marriage is evidence of that. 

He's absolutely wrong on so many things... exercise and weight, mental health, etc.

He doesn't help you, does his own thing, yet still expects an unreasonably high standard. 

Christ, stand up for yourself. Stop blaming everything on yourself. Talk to someone. It's your life, not his, take control over it. Find a counselor, and tell him to go to hell when he objects.


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## mary35

The name you call yourself is a huge lie you have bought in to. So I refuse to use it! 

So "Totally adequate and awesome mother and wife" please pay extra attention to all of EleGirl's very wise posts and info. She is giving you exactly what you need to hear right now. You don't recognize what is going on in your marriage because you have bought into all of the lies and crap your husband has been telling you. I hope soon you will refuse to buy in to them any more! 

I only have one more thing I want to address - You say that you have gained weight since having children in spite of the fact that you eat very little during the day. I think you wrote that you eat only one small meal a day - is that correct? Eating too few calories will actually sabotage loosing weight efforts because it puts your body into "starvation mode". In "starvation mode" - the body tries to protect itself and conserve energy by slowing down your metabolism which if it goes on long enough, it can actually result in "metabolic damage". You are probably eating way too few calories for your needs - and then add on top of that - you are also trying to nurse 3 children. Honey - you are literally killing yourself. It is no wonder that you have no energy - and are buying your husbands lies. You are probably not thinking clearly either. Not only are you getting emotionally and verbally abused by your husband - but your body is being abused by not getting enough nutrients to keep it healthy and strong. Your body is probably NOT getting the nutrients it needs to LIVE - let alone not enough to be physically and mentally healthy. 

Please, for your sake and for the sake of your children - start eating regular, healthy meals immediately! You may put on some weight at first, but don't let that stop you from feeding your body what it needs. Then later, if you can, add some form of light to moderate intensity exercise to your day. Walking and some light weight lifting exercises would be great. In addition - only continue to nurse the baby - and wean the other two. 

When you eat - choose your food carefully. Your goal should be to GAIN health not lose weight. Your body needs quality protein, lots of colorful fresh vegetables and fruits, and also healthy fats (they are a necessity for good health). Choose food as close to nature as possible. Stay away from processed foods as much as possible, stay away from sugar and processed flour foods. Choose whole grains and fresh natural foods instead. For example - eat an orange instead of drinking orange juice - a colorful salad with grilled chicken and olive oil dressing instead of processed chicken nuggets dipped in low calorie ranch dressing - drink water instead of diet sodas Etc. 

I think if you do the above - and start to pay more attention to your body's health needs, including your mental health needs (address depression issues) - down the road, you will find the way your body looks and how you feel about it and yourself - and also your energy levels - will all greatly improve. 

Good Luck, Totally adequate and awesome mother and wife! I hope someday soon you will actually believe this truthful label instead of the lie your husband has gotten you to believe.


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## Taxman

Your husband is abusive. He has convinced you that you are inferior. Frankly, he needs to be met at the door with the locks changed and a sherriffs order to begin paying you support, while he goes looking for someone else to abuse. If you were my daughter, I would be coming over regularly to give your hubby a swift kick in the nads. That is what he needs. Not more housework, not knocking you up again and again, not a hot meal waiting for "massa" to grace the castle with his nobless oblige, nope, a kick in the nuts with a hobnail boot, or a visit from Lorena Bobbitt. Stand up for yourself. Any further remarks, and make him stand in the corner like a petulant five year old. PS, Let him know that you are going to tell everyone at church that he abuses you. Watch his image take a nosedive.


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## jlg07

IW, Read @EleGirl's post #84 -- PLEASE read that in depth, and understand it. The "religion" you are being told about is NOT the Catholic religion (I am Catholic). It is being tailored to supress and abuse you -- the WORST kind of religious BS. 

Read about the religious vocation of marriage. Read about the religious vocation of being a husband/father and a wife/mother. Read about a wife being subservient to her husband -- it DOES NOT MEAN to be a slave, never contradicting, not being your own person, etc.. PLEASE do this for yourself -- your depression is adding to these negative thoughts and not wanting to do anything -- please get that treated by a MEDICAL doctor, not a priest. Please be aware that you are being brainwashed by your husband to a large extent and that he is manipulating you.


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## StillSearching

Not sure the OP is still around, but here's my 2 cents.
All the complements here toward you, and all the insults at your husband here, are not solving your problem.
It's like page after page of fluff to me.
Drugs for depression are short term. You need to find your place in this world.
You need to find meaning. Read up how to improve your mental state, and focus on YOU.
Sounds like you love your husband, find some time to look at yourself introspectively. Don't aim at your husband. 
That won't help anything.


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## personofinterest

StillSearching said:


> Not sure the OP is still around, but here's my 2 cents.
> All the complements here toward you, and all the insults at your husband here, are not solving your problem.
> It's like page after page of fluff to me.
> Drugs for depression are short term. You need to find your place in this world.
> You need to find meaning. Read up how to improve your mental state, and focus on YOU.
> Sounds like you love your husband, find some time to look at yourself introspectively. Don't aim at your husband.
> That won't help anything.


When someone has been a victim of systematic abuse, the first hurdle is for them to even believe they are being abused. They often do not believe it IS abuse, they believe that they are the flawed one, and that their abuser is longsuffering. 

So what you call fluff from on high, many of us know is necessary for the OP to understand that what her husband is doing IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

So instead of deciding for all of us what she needs and how useless our responses are, do you have anything to add that may help this abuse victim understand she is NOT worthless and to find help?


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## 3Xnocharm

The only thing you have failed with is staying with this man and allowing him to degrade you to the point that you think you are a failure. Your husband is an ass of massive proportions.


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## personofinterest

OP, you are not a failure. Like I have said before, those with no understanding of systematic abuse, and especially spiritual abuse, seem to think the victim can just up and stand their ground. Many times, by the time a person realizes how bad it is (or that it isn't normal), they are already so beaten down that they no longer have a voice.

You have not failed. You have taken a very brave step to even post on a forum AT ALL. Keep taking those baby steps. You CAN do it.


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## jorgegene

I once had a girlfriend that was convinced that she was ugly because her father had repeatedly told her so, and
her husband of 20 something years also told her that. it was so ingrained in her that even though she had moments of clarity,
and would look in the mirror and say to herself 'i'm not half bad', she would revert to thinking herself ugly.

now, here's the sad part. she was absolutely beautiful. i mean really beautiful. if i uploaded pictures of her, I would bet a hundred bucks
everyone on this forum would agree. no amount of me telling her she was beautiful would convince her otherwise.
the most important and formative people in her life, her daddy and her husband told her she was ugly, and that was that.

sadly, she spent most of her later years after leaving her abusive ex. bouncing from guy to guy in an effort to try to assure herself that men wanted her.

inadequate wife: i'm willing to bet you're not nearly what your abusive excuse for a husband says you are.
the bottom line: if you are really trying and making an effort to be good, then you deserve respect, appreciation and love.
none of which this man gives you. shame on him for masquerading as a christian.
i am not necessarily saying you should leave him. i am saying you need to reject his abuse.

and get it out of your head. this man is abusive, because by your own admission he treats you with contempt.


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## StillSearching

personofinterest said:


> When someone has been a victim of systematic abuse, the first hurdle is for them to even believe they are being abused. They often do not believe it IS abuse, they believe that they are the flawed one, and that their abuser is longsuffering.
> 
> So what you call fluff from on high, many of us know is necessary for the OP to understand that what her husband is doing IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
> 
> *So instead of deciding for all of us what she needs and how useless our responses are, do you have anything to add that may help this abuse victim understand she is NOT worthless and to find help?*


Yes, to not to pay too much attention to fluff.
She can only change herself. She should aim at herself.


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## WorkingWife

uhtred said:


> One comment on the anti-depressants. If someone is in a terrible situation, which I think is the case for the OP, its normal to be very unhappy. I think the correct approach there is to find a way to escape the situation. I think antidepressants are appropriate for someone who is depressed, without clear external cause.


This is true, however, in my personal experience, anti-depressants saved me twice when I was in a bad relationship. According to my OBGYN I probably need and have needed them most of my adult life, but here is how they helped me:

1. I was in really bad marriage (not this bad, but bad) Just like @inadequate wife describes, I felt overwhelmed and like I didn't know HOW to stand up to my H. I was unhappy, constantly anxious, and felt everything was somehow my fault and in the way I dealt with my husband I was just confused, weak and pathetic.

2. I was put on antidepressants after resisting the idea for a couple years of insomnia and PTSD from a car accident.

3. The anti-depressants took some time, but they were like magic in that they just helped me step back from the overwhelming feeling and confusion. Slowly I went from "What am I doing wrong? Why isn't he nice to me? What can I do to make him love me properly?" to a calm, objective feeling of "Hmmmm... this is not acceptable. I don't like this. I'd like to be removed from this situation."

We got divorced. Perhaps foolishly in my case, I stopped the ADs because I felt my REAL problem was over.

5. Then I got involved with my second husband and had a totally co-dependent/enabler relationship with him for 20 frustrating, disappointing years. When I went through menopause I finally saw a hormone specialist and she was like: Um, so WHY did you stop taking the prozac? She explained how it actually works and that women have less serotonin than men naturally, you lose it as you age, and your levels are influenced by genetics. (There was suicide and depression and alcoholism in my biological family.)

6. I went back on it plus bio-identical hormone replacement of estrogen and progesterone. Until those hormones hit me and I quite literally felt the relief wash over me, I didn't realize how much mental anguish I'd been in for years.

7. I had the same transformation as the first time -- I went from helpless, confused, emotionally paralyzed victim who couldn't see her way out of a bad situation because she didn't know how to stand up for herself to a more calm, logical person who was able to look at the situation, assess that it was slowing killing her, and simply remove herself from it.

I now believe that had I not stopped taking the AD's I would have never tolerated the situation with my 2nd husband long enough to date him more than a year, let alone marry him. I believe I would have been much stronger and clear of head and just not been attracted to the situation in the first place.

So I completely agree with you that not everyone who is depressed due to a situation needs or should take ADs. But @inadequate wife 's feelings and reaction to the situation really resonate with me and I think it's possible ADs could be her miracle too.


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## personofinterest

Yep, just like you take antibiotics for a temporary infection, there is NOTHING wrong with use of ADs during an overwhelming crisis.


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## WorkingWife

Hi totally-adequate-better-than-most wife. My comments are in red inside your quote.



inadequate wife said:


> I don’t think my husband is a narcissist or a bad man. He only treats me this way. He is very involved with his friends and church. He is empathetic towards others. Not me. He is a good parent when he parents. He goes out of his way to help others. I don’t receive the same treatment as others because I’m a bad wife. I watched the videos and I read a website with 50 signs of narcissism many were answered yes. He is only like that with me though. He has a lot of friends and is well liked. He is well liked in our church. He is completely different around other people or when we are in public. It’s my fault for letting it happen. I read about gas lighting and parts of that read familiar.
> 
> Treating everyone else with empathy and being helpful can actually be a part of being a narcissist, because the narcissist is extremely image conscious. They will be driven to do anything that makes them look good to others. That is why they will go out of their way for everyone in public and when others will know about it, but withhold love and affection from their spouse behind closed doors.
> 
> I don't know if he is a narcissist or not, but if he is, it doesn't mean he is a monster. My understanding is that narcissism is a condition that develops based largely on upbringing where you have hard to please or absent parents. The problem is that it's extremely difficult to have a genuine, loving relationship with a narcissist because they are entitled, selfish, and care more about image (clean house) than things of substance (happy marriage).
> 
> Our church does do marital counselling. It might help. The man is the head of the family and he has authority over the wife but I know he isn’t treating me the way he should. It isn’t supposed to take away my equality or be a dictator. Even on the Islam side men are the head of the household and the wife obeys her husband but the husband treats his wife with affection, courtesy and mercy not be a dictator. Whichever he is using he’s doing it wrong. I know that. He has to know that too. The link with the 10 commandments of a husband and father. My husband doesn't do any of those except the first and last maybe. Going to our church and talking could help with that. I can ask about antidepressants and maybe it will help my husband understand that they are okay. My husband said he would go with me.
> 
> Your husband said he would go with you? THIS IS FANTASTIC. Everyone here can see that your husband is not behaving according to scripture. I recommend you let the counselor take the lead on things as they are the authority in your husband's eyes, but when you describe your situation don't hold back. Make simple statements of what you and he have said and done, but do it without any judgment in your or negative adjectives. (Like you have been doing here.) Keep the statements about yourself, for example:
> 
> You: "I am exhausted, impatient with my children, and in a fog all day because I have not had more than 2 contiguous hours of sleep in 3 years."
> Counselor person: "Wait, why haven't you been able to sleep through the night?"
> You: "Well, it's my duty to tend to the children and they wake up crying X times a night on average."
> Then let the counselor sort that out. If you H IS a narcissist, he will become EXTREMELY self conscious here because this obviously makes him look bad. But all you are doing is explaining the situation. You're not saying "My lazy, controlling husband won't let me sleep."
> 
> Think in advance about how you can word things where you can make the picture clear to the counselor without implicating your husband.
> 
> Another:
> You:"My dr. and obgyn think I should be on antidepressants but my husband is concerned they are considered a sin. I don't want to sin but I am genuinely worried about my emotional and physical health at this point. I am NOT okay. And I'm not being a good mother or wife because of it."
> 
> Your H: "Well you can't breast feed and take them at the same time anyhow."
> 
> You: "that's another thing, I know that birth control is considered a sin, and I love my husband and want to be a dutiful wife, but I'm nursing three children right now and honestly, I fear I'm losing it. I'm terrified of getting pregnant again."
> 
> Counselor: "Well wait now, birth control is a sin but abstinence is not..."
> 
> Sidenote - you said you've done things to prevent pregnancy in secret and felt horrible. I would give yourself a pass. You married a religious man but he married a woman who was NOT that religious. Don't they have some shot you can get now that works for a few months? That's not an abortifacent, is it? Also, if you know when you are fertile, you can HONESTLY tell your H "I feel ill. I don't feel good." those nights. Because you DON'T feel good and you DO feel ill -- pretty much every night. I know you don't have the strength to do this yet but many women in your position would stop having sex altogether. If you were up to it I would tell your husband: "I have no desire for sex and the scripture says not to have sex when you don't feel it's right for you." (I made that scripture part up but I could probably find something to support it in the bible if I looked.)
> 
> 
> 
> My husband thinks discussing our sex life with absolutely anyone is unacceptable. It is private and between him and I. It makes it hard because sex isn’t really talked about and we stopped talking about it years ago. Through elementary and high school all that was taught about sex was to wait until marriage or no man will want you, pictures of STD’s, oral sex is disgusting, anal sex is forbidden, and sex is to create children and pleasure is a bonus. My family didn’t talk about sex. I still have a chastity card that I signed 18 years ago. I completely stopped believing in a god in high school but all of that stuck. My husband and I waited until we were married to even kiss. Our first kiss at our wedding was our first kiss. Going from being told that sex is bad and not to do it, to getting the green light and expected to have a great sex life was hard. It’s still hard. Hopefully that’s okay to say.
> 
> The birth control situation is what it is. That isn’t going to change. IUD’s are abortifacients. Conception can still take place but implantation cannot occur. Copper IUD’s kill sperm which isn’t allow either. The only allowed method is natural family planning. Nothing can be done to prevent pregnancy aside from abstaining on fertile days. Which our church allows but doesn’t recommend. Withdrawal method isn’t allowed. All sexual pleasure must end with the man having an orgasm in the vagina. Sex is essential to marriage. We can’t abstain long term. I need my husband to get on board with NFP.
> 
> I’ve done things to prevent pregnancy. I shouldn’t even say that. No one knows. My husband would never forgive me. I deliberately lied and hid it. It makes me feel horrible and like I’m living a lie. It’s hard because my husband’s beliefs are not my beliefs but at the same time they are in a way. I know certain things are not true but they feel brainwashed in to the point that I don’t know what I think anymore.
> 
> See my BC comments above. I know you don't want to lie to your husband but you are in a real life crisis at this moment. At the very least pursue the NFP on your end through "not being in the mood" when you know you are fertile. I agree sex is essential to marriage, but so are love, kindness, and respect -- and right now you do not have that from your husband. So if he can withhold those from you, you are no worse a sinner withholding sex from him.
> 
> 
> Our marriage dynamic closely resembles the dynamic that my MIL and FIL have. That’s why I don’t know if I can get the dynamic to change.
> 
> Should my husband be as attracted to me now as he was before we had children? Or is the husband losing attraction part of marriage? My last pregnancy did the most to my body. I got pregnant at 2 months postpartum and my body didn’t have any time to heal before starting over again.
> 
> I think sexual attraction shifts in a relationship and as we age. You stay attracted if the marriage is good, but remember, sex is for reproduction so as we age it is natural to not look as sexy or desire as much sex. If your husband no longer finds you attractive, right now, were I in your shoes, I would be relieved and use that as a way to keep from getting pregnant again.
> 
> He is an engineer. How did you figure that out? I don’t want to say exactly what he does but his degrees are in mechatronic and aerospace engineering. He gives me one sentence about how his day went so I couldn’t really say what his day to day work is like. The commute is harder on him than the work. He hates sitting in traffic.
> 
> Do we read those books together? “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. I am going to look more into the groups through our church. I bought the routine cards and ordered the chore bundle. Thank you for that recommendation. I don’t like labelling my kids. My 4.5 year old has been my most difficult child. It could be from him modelling my husband. I don’t want that.
> 
> If you can get your H to read them with you that would be FANTASTIC. But if he won't, read them and follow them yourself. My guess is he will say that he does not need them and the church teachings are all he needs. But the books are still critical for you to read. BTW, the author is Christian. Those two books were critical for me in shifting my feelings to realizing that I also deserved to be treated well in marriage. They gave me a voice for things I was feeling where I thought I was just too needy and picky. I realized I was a normal woman, in fact, much LESS needy than most.
> 
> Is he really so bad that I need to be planning on how to leave him or be safe around him?
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. But knowing you have options and having a plan will give you strength. You do not have to plan to leave him to know how you would handle things if you did decide to leave him.
> 
> He has never hurt anyone. I can’t come to terms with the idea that my husband could be abusive. He doesn’t ever put his hands on me. If he is mentally abusive how can I be married to him and not realize?
> 
> I think emotional/mental abuse is very hard to identify for the victim because the perpetrator (your husband) ALSO doesn't realize he's being abusive. I doubt most abusive men think "I am going to control and emotionally torment my wife, bwahahahaha!" Rather I think they are deeply insecure themselves and that manifests in them behaving controlling and gaslighting. They are insecure and are acting on instinct because they fear their wife would not love them if she had a choice. But they are not thinking "I'm an *******."
> 
> I've been on the receiving end and I laughed when friends and people on this forum said he my ex was borderline abusive, because I knew he had a good heart and wanted to be a good person. But bottom line, his ACTIONS and TREATMENT of me were controlling, unfair, manipulative, abusive, gaslighting, etc.
> 
> 
> Is their any hope for our marriage to get better? I don’t want a divorce. I won’t do that. I would never even threaten divorce. But if he’s going to be abusive what else am I supposed to do.
> 
> Yes, there is hope, but ultimately that will depend on your husband. Right now I would not worry about actually divorcing. I would start implementing the advice you're received that resonates with you and give it some time. Especially the counseling, books Ele Girl recommended, and hopefully avoiding more pregnancy and getting on ADs as fast as possible if your Drs. agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually think he could be having an affair? That terrifies me. We have only been with each other and he wouldn’t do that. Can he really have the beliefs that he has and have an affair?
> 
> Absolutely he can have those beliefs and do those things. That doesn't mean he IS. But yes, he can and it is AMAZING the things you find people will do that go against their own "beliefs." This is probably not your top concern right now though. But I would not feel bad looking at his email or texts. After all, he is your husband.
> What secrets could he possibly have from you? What's yours is his, what's his is yours. You are united by God.
> 
> I’m the only one who should experience my husband. He is supposed to be mine. I have never gone through his things. I would never think to go through his garbage. I have never had a reason to think I needed to invade his privacy and not trust him. If he’s having an affair that makes me look even worse. I’m that bad that I could have pushed him to have an affair. Something he is completely against.
> 
> If he is having an affair that does NOT make YOU look worse. That would make HIM look worse and would be a legitimate reason for you to divorce if you ultimately change your mind and want to.
> 
> I feel bad talking poorly about my marriage. I shouldn’t be doing anything that I need to hide from my husband. I just want my marriage to be better.


In what way do you think you are talking poorly about your marriage? You are describing things that are happening in your life. Some of us have assigned some derogatory labels based on how your H is treating you, but all YOU have done is objectively say what you both believe and are saying and doing.


----------



## inadequate wife

It sounds stupid but yes I think our problems are my fault. I know my husband isn't putting in enough effort and it will take both of us to fix it but I think it's my fault were at this point. I was reading a website that said the husband could act like this because the wife was too focused on the children and didn't focus on her husband and he learned to go to friends, church, family instead of his wife to have emotional needs met. And to fix it is need to praise and compliment him constantly. I don't praise or compliment him anymore. I'm not sure when it stopped. I can't expect him to treat me well if I don't treat him well. 

Someone said to look at him the way I would view myself if I was treating him how he treats me. That hurts to think about. I would hate myself. I don't want to hate my husband. 

I know my husband doesn't treat me the way he should. His friends wouldn't be supportive of the way he treats me. They don't know our marriage though. His parents know. But our relationship is similar to theirs. They have been married for 46 years. They seem happy. My MIL tells me that it will get better when the kids are older. They don't think any contraception that prevents implantation should be used. But are not against condoms or withdrawal and encourage spacing children and not doing so is irresponsible. I wish my husband had that view. I know it's hypocritical that I don't want my children to be in marriages like mine. This isn't the marriage that I thought I'd have. I didn't want a religious relationship. I met my husband and he seemed perfect. He was everything I didn't know I wanted.

How do abusers hide their abuse from everyone else? If they are abusive shouldn't they treat everyone poorly? If he is abusive and is only abusing me then that means he knows that he's doing it. That's horrible. He treats me completely differently at church and in public. His persona is completely different. He's happy and smiles a lot. His tone is different. He is much more interactive with our children. He holds my hand. He opens doors for me. He talks to me. He kisses me. He doesn't say anything negative. He is the husband I want him to be when we are in public. He doesn't change like that if we are only with his parents. 

I don't feel like I have any power to change our marriage. 

I'm not sure if sex ed is taught the same way everywhere. The area I lived in at the time was very conservative. Two women were brought in to talk about sex and we were taught based on their opinions, experiences and beliefs. I had the same two ladies from grade 7-12. One of the ladies only held hands with her husband until they married and mentioned that every time. The way she talked about it was that we didn't have to do that, but the undertone was judgemental and that if we kissed it wouldnt be as special or if we kissed anyone before our husbands it wouldnt be special. It stuck and when I met my husband we did the same. There were other things taught in a similar way. 

My husband and I did premarital counselling but it wasn't through the church we were going to at the time. We were not allowed to marry there. We did marry in a different church. My husband had to get permission to marry me under the declaration that he would continue his faith while being married to me and our children would be raised Catholic. 

In our premarital counselling sex was talked about, but only about compatibility. Questions were if we wanted to have sex with each other, how we would resolve differences in frequency, what sexual intimacy looked like to us, things we were opposed to, our views on birth control. We had talked about that stuff before and knew each other's answers so we said the same things. We both wanted to have sex with each other. We said we could have honest discussions about our intimacy. What we thought sexual intimacy should look like was similar. I said that I had different views on birth control but I was accepting of my husbands beliefs and we would do natural family planning. At that point my husband wanted to do NFP. My husband and I had different teachings on sex. He was only against sex during menstruation and anal sex. Oral sex was okay to him as long as he didn't have an orgasm because that's impure. I wasn't comfortable with oral sex and we agreed not to do that before premarital counselling. That all feels extremely uncomfortable to say. The church that we married in said anything was permissible, even certain birth control, as long as both of us wanted to do it. Our church that we go to is much more strict. 

My doctor and midwife both said that we should wait 2 years between each pregnancy. And right now more would be preferable. When I conceived at 2 months postpartum my midwife said it would be risky and there was a high chance of a premature birth. I had to have an OBGYN consult because it was considered high risk. I know that we have 5 children because we've been having unprotected sex for 7 years. My husband still thinks that only God can choose how many children we have and when we have them. I'm not pregnant yet and he says that's because God knows it's not the right time. But that's not why. I track my cycles and my body. I should be pregnant right now. 

I've used spermicide because he doesn't notice and I can usually do it and postpone long enough. When buying groceries I've asked for cashback and then bought the morning after pill because it doesn't need a prescription or health card. And the pharmacy purchase wouldn't show up on our bank statement. I know that's wrong. My husband would never forgive me and would see it as murder. I feel very guilty about it. 

I cant handle anymore children. Not right now. I need a break from being pregnant. My last pregnancy wasn't horrible but was labelled high risk. The pregnancies were too close together. I gained 65 pounds on top of what I already had gained in my pregnancy before that one. So it was closer to 100 pounds. And it was mostly fluid retention. My son was small, measured behind, I had low amniotic fluid and his growth almost completely stopped at 32 weeks. I had to go to the hospital three times a week for non-stress tests and once a week for a biophysical profile. He was born full term but 5lb 1oz. I had to have him in the hospital and in the operating room ready to be put under just in case he couldn't handle it. It ended up being okay and we were both fine but I can't do it again. My doctor said I could use the birth control shot, my husband wouldn't see pills and she can put a note on my file that it's confidential so that it's not mentioned if my husband is at an appointment with me. I can't do that behind his back though. That won't help our marriage. 

In school we were taught about abusive relationships. I should be able to see it. I know what he is doing isn't okay but I still try to protect him and our marriage. I don't want to be someone who gets abused and lets it go on forever. It's really hard for me not to make excuses. It makes me regret talking about it but at the same time I want to talk about it. I have been trying to read the exit plan info that was posted and it's very difficult to read. I don't want to accept that I could need that information. I don't want to think about my marriage getting so bad that I need to leave. Let alone leave urgently. 

Thinking about him having an affair is hard. He wouldn't do that. But he also shouldn't treat me the way he does. He picks and chooses what he believes and practises. He could with infidelity too. Thinking about it makes me want to be sick. Can a man who saved himself for marriage really turn around and go outside the marriage for sex? He was 30 when we married. Can self control be forgotten like that? 

We don't hide things from each other but don't go through each other's things either. We don't look at or use each other's cellphones. Which is why I felt okay writing here. I've never searched through his vehicle and he's never searched through mine. Is that something couples actually do? I searched for signs of infidelity and some of them seemed too familiar and hurt to read. It scares me. I can make excuses for it but the what if's are worrying me. When I was with him last night I couldn’t stop thinking about it. There has been infidelity in two couples at our church and they are doing okay and worked through it with help from the church. I don't want to need to take that route. I don't want my husband to be confessing to our church that he was unfaithful. I don't think I could have the poise that other women have had. Can a couple be truly happy after infidelity? I don't know how I would forgive him for a betrayal like that. It would ruin everything. Intimacy wouldn't have meaning if he's shared it with someone else. I'm crying thinking about it. 

I think it would make me look bad because he wouldn't go to someone else for intimacy if I was giving him enough. I trust my husband. Or I thought I did. I don't know if my worries are justified or if I'm only feeling this way because I let people put bad ideas in my mind. 

My family blamed me for things that happened in my family. My maternal grandparents, my half-brother, my paternal side of the family. Some things were my fault. I don't ever talk about it. It's really hard for me to talk about. 

Me and my half-brother have different dad's. He's older than I am. My dad was abusive to my mom, me, and my brother. My mom tried to leave my dad when I was 3. She sent my brother and I to a friend's house and was going to move out when my dad was at work. My dad found out that she was leaving and went home early from work. He killed her. My mom's friend didn't hear from her and instead of calling the police went to the house with us. My mom was laying dead in a pool of her blood and there was blood all over the house. She didn't have a plan for me or my brother if she died. My brother went to live with his dad. My brother blamed me because it was my dad who killed our mom. He still blames me. We don't have a relationship. My maternal grandparents didn't want me. They blamed me. My mom only married my dad because she was pregnant with me. I went to live with my dad's sister, her husband and my paternal grandparents. It was a farm with two houses. They were abusive and controlling. I was spanked if I peed my pants. I wasn't allowed to have anything for comfort. They were controlling and I had to be perfect. I was hit when I got a 93% on an exam because it wasn't high enough. I was blamed for their son/brother being in prison. I was blamed when he was released from prison but he couldn't go see them because he wasn't allowed to be in the same province as me. I was blamed when my grandpa died and my dad couldn't see him. My grandpa touched me in ways that was uncomfortable. I moved across the country when I graduated high school. I put it behind me and moved on. It made my husband hesitate very slightly to marry me. Not being able to ask my dad or father figure for permission to marry me was difficult for him.

My mom and dad both had/have depression. My mom was suicidal. She had very bad postpartum depression. I have mental health illness on both sides.

I'm going to start reading the books suggested. We were encouraged to read books to help build a strong marriage so it should be okay. When we did premarital counselling we both had to fill out a questionnaire. The answers he wrote are not how he's treating me, our kids or how our marriage is going. I know we still have them and maybe re-reading that would be an eyeopener for him. 

The can't think of the last time I felt cherished. My mind jumps back to when we were newly weds. Which was 7 years ago. That makes me sad. 

When I married my husband I agreed to be active and equal in his faith, baptise our children and raise them Catholic. I was okay with that. I was raised religious and going back to it was okay. I have different beliefs than my husband, but I agreed to honour his. He didn't ever agree to honour mine, we married Catholic. Some of his beliefs are rubbing off on me. Like using birth control that allows for conception but prevents implantation. It bothers me now but years ago didn't. I've used emergency contraception and each time has felt like an abortion. And I know it's not. But my husband and our church rub off on me. 

Aside from getting my husband on board with NFP there is nothing I can do about birth control. Maybe his parents could talk to him. They don't have a problem with condoms, withdrawing and encourage spacing children apart. But my husband doesn't listen to their opinions because it's Islam vs Catholic. I do want things to change but that one won't. He agreed to go to marital counselling at our church. 

The hours that I am "working" and the hours that my husband is at work are not equal. He spends 60 hours a week at work or commuting. We spend time together as a family on Sunday for 3-5 hours. He doesn't help me at night or at bedtime. I am "on" 24/7. 

The largest family at our church has 11 children. The next largest has 8. Several with 4-5. Several with 1-3. Our church doesn't say that having a large family is a must. The only birth control method allowed by our church is natural family planning. They say its 99% effective when done properly. Most people seem to practise NFP. The family with 8 children, each child is 2-3 years apart. My husband doesn't want to abstain two weeks a month and he thinks the decision of how many children we have is up to God. But when we married he agreed to do NFP. I agreed not to use birth control but he's not holding up his end. 

Not all churches have the same views as ours. Regardless of that the husband is still supposed to treat his wife well. And there is nothing wrong with abstaining if both husband and wife agree or doing NFP to prevent a pregnancy for valid reason. Valid reasons are medical, financial, emotional or spacing children out. So there is no reason we can't do NFP. My husband needs to get on board. I'm not supposed to abstain if my husband doesn't want to. And that goes both ways. So refusing on certain days might not be acceptable. Saying no sometimes is okay if there is a valid reason. 

I usually only eat dinner. I'm not hungry during the day anymore and can only eat a half sized portion before being full. If I do eat more I gain 10 pounds quickly and feel bloated. And my husband notices. My milk production has always been fine. I wouldn't starve a baby. I am weaning my 3 year old, its down to once every other day. My youngest two are not ready to wean. But I do consume less calories than I should. I try to avoid processed foods but somedays it's easier to put in a frozen pizza than make it fresh. Or let the kids have chicken fingers and fries so they will all eat and not complain. We do have to get better about that. It's hard to remind myself to eat. I focus on my children and end up taking a few bites of whatever I made them. I do only drink water though. We don't ever drink pop/soda and don't usually have juice. 

I write in pieces when I have time. I'm sorry if this is all over the place now. 

Do I need to come clean with my husband about writing here? About things I've hid from him? I would be upset if my husband posted on the internet about me and my shortcomings. We're not supposed to go behind each other's backs. I'm looking at my husband differently now. I shouldn't have let other people into our marriage probably. I should have gone to our church instead. I wouldn't feel so guilty. He agreed to go to counselling at our church. I should probably tell him about this. Our church is having a couples dinner in two weeks. I asked if he would go to that with me and he said maybe. He does want me to be more involved with our church so going that route might help.


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## personofinterest

The first paragraph you wrote....

I know that site. Those things don't work in an abusive relationship. This has NOTHING to do with you focusing on children or emotional needs. NOTHING.

I am not sure how to convey it to you, but your husband's actions and philosophies are not normal. That are unreasonable. "Admiration" and "Sexual Fulfillment" are not the issues here. I don't care WHO tries to tell you they are.

If you must read there, read "What to Do with an Angry and Controlling Husband." But this is not about you doing better on a questionnaire. Your husband is mistreating you. Nothing he is doing even approaches loving his wife as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5).

Please please talk to someone outside his family and circle to get help. I am very worried for you.



> My family blamed me for things that happened in my family. My maternal grandparents, my half-brother, my paternal side of the family. Some things were my fault. I don't ever talk about it. It's really hard for me to talk about.


I am also a survivor of molestation, and it does create shame. But it CAN be overcome. Nothing that happened to you was your fault. Nothing.

I feel the depth of your pain. Fluff or no fluff, I am not going to kick you in the pants when you are down. I want to help support you as you get help.


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## jlg07

" I don't want my husband to be confessing to our church that he was unfaithful. "
WHAT kind of Catholic church do you go to -- this is NOT mainstream Catholicism and they would NEVER have someone confess to the entire congregation for this.

Also, I don't think you need to tell your husband about this -- think about this as a diary or some counseling session (BTW, after reading about your childhood, I REALLY think you need to have a individual counselor to help handle that). When HE steps up and starts being the husband/father you deserve, then your communications will open up and all of the stuff you've mentioned here will be discussed. NORMALLY I would NOT ever counsel to hide things from your spouse -- but in your situation, you do NOT have any sort of open communications with your husband, and right now, I think you need your OWN space to discuss and think things through.


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## WorkingWife

One more piece of advice. (@inadequate wife I am very concerned for you. ♥)

One tiny step you can take toward shifting the dynamic where you are stronger is this: From this moment forward, stop apologizing to your H for things that don't go right. Be matter of fact. Your "failings" are the natural consequence of the extreme amount of stress you are under. Here is a little examples:

H: "You didn't pick up my shaving cream."
You: "It wasn't on the list. Tell Alexa and I'll get it next time."
H: "You should know when we need things, I shouldn't have to tell Alexa for you."
You: "I haven't had a full night's sleep in X years. I'm sleep deprived and odds are if you don't tell Alexa, I will forget it."
H: "You're being lazy. That's just an excuse."
You: "All I can tell you is I love you and would never deliberately not pick up something you need, but I am genuinely sleep deprived. Being forgetful is a natural consequence of that. I can't think straight, I cry all the time when I'm alone, we're actually lucky I haven't crashed the car."
H: "You should be able to handle this. God would not give you more than you can handle."
You: "God knows I am doing my absolute best. This is just how He made me."

No matter what you did, do not be apologetic unless you *deliberately* did something to upset him. My theory is that when you stop reinforcing his narrative that you are the failure/cause of his unhappiness, he will eventually learn that berating you does not get him whatever it is that he wants.




inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


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## happyhusband0005

inadequate wife said:


> Do I need to come clean with my husband about writing here? About things I've hid from him? I would be upset if my husband posted on the internet about me and my shortcomings. We're not supposed to go behind each other's backs. I'm looking at my husband differently now. I shouldn't have let other people into our marriage probably. I should have gone to our church instead. I wouldn't feel so guilty. He agreed to go to counselling at our church. I should probably tell him about this. Our church is having a couples dinner in two weeks. I asked if he would go to that with me and he said maybe. He does want me to be more involved with our church so going that route might help.


Honestly, there is so much going on here you need serious help. You need to start by sitting your husband down and tell him flat out the way he treats you is plainly unacceptable, I would recommend getting help with this, maybe his parents would be willing to have an intervention of sorts with you. He has made you a slave, you are not allowed to decide anything for yourself. He is using religion as an excuse for doing this. 

If things continue status quo I feel like you are going to end up with a serious mental health crisis. You cannot live your life like this. Yes things will get easier around the house when the kids are older IF YOU STOP HAVING KIDS. 

You are in an abusive situation, your husband is telling you you're a bad wife and mother but he is an awful husband and father. Yes if he is treating the mother of his children this way he is a horrible father. 

This is why after being raised catholic I have come to believe that religion is the source of much of the worlds evil.


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## 3Xnocharm

Do NOT tell him that you have been reading and posting here. You are already a much better wife than he is a husband, and way beyond what he deserves. No one deserves to live the way you have been, and barring him having some come-to-Jesus miracle revelation of what an abusive tool he is, you marriage isnt going to change. He wont let it. So you either need to end it, or come up with some way to cope with staying int it that doesnt include degrading yourself and beating yourself up.


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## Steelman

Your husband sounds like a real prize.


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## Ursula

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


My first thoughts when I read this post: "holy macaroni, lady, you have a lot on your plate!"

I'm not lucky enough to be a Mom, but would imagine that looking after 5 small children is no small feat. Sounds like only 1 would be in school, which leaves 4 at home with you during the day. So, not only do you have a ton of stuff to do around the house everyday, you have to do it while juggling the needs of 4 little ones. Does your husband realize that being a parent is a full-time job? 

You sound overworked, under appreciated and exhausted. Have you tried talking to him about how this is making you feel? This is what I would do. Even if you have to take his face in your hands and make him look into your eyes.


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## NobodySpecial

My concern with telling your husband that you are posting here is that he will disconnect you, realize (whether consciously or subconsciously) that his controlling grip is not doing the job, and tighten that grip. You are in a classic abusive situation, no family, no one but him ... and HIS church. My concern with heeding the advice that you challenge him directly is that he will escalate. 

I hope you will find SOMEONE to trust, to reach out to in real life. I am terribly worried for you.


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## happyhusband0005

NobodySpecial said:


> My concern with telling your husband that you are posting here is that he will disconnect you, realize (whether consciously or subconsciously) that his controlling grip is not doing the job, and tighten that grip. You are in a classic abusive situation, no family, no one but him ... and HIS church. My concern with heeding the advice that you challenge him directly is that he will escalate.
> 
> I hope you will find SOMEONE to trust, to reach out to in real life. I am terribly worried for you.


Exactly, if he finds out there is any chance you are hearing the truth, that he is abusing you, he will make sure you are isolated.


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## Stormguy2018

inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


It's not your job - or anyone else for that matter - to make their spouse happy. 

Sounds to me like your husband is cruel and abusive. I'm so sorry.


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## inadequate wife

Can an abusive spouse ever change? If they want to change.


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## 3Xnocharm

inadequate wife said:


> Can an abusive spouse ever change? If they want to change.


That would a monumental, unlikely thing to have actually happen. First they have to realize and admit that they are abusive and in the wrong, and people who are like this are of the mindset that they are right and its the rest of the world that is screwed up, so why should THEY change? Your husband is very much aware of how he is treating you, it is very much on purpose. Your description of how he treats you when there are other people around is proof.. it is a phony act put on for the benefit of himself, so that other people cant see the reality of what a monster he is. Once you are home, he resumes his abuse. VERY VERY conscious and calculated. He knows how you should be treated and has decided not to do that for you. And its not because you are a bad wife... its because there is something very wrong with him and his beliefs.

Be warned if he believes that you are on your way out, he will turn on his charm and suddenly become the world's greatest husband, just like the act he puts on in public. Do not delude yourself that this is real. Its fake. And it would go away as soon as it seemed you were securely back in your place.


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## happyhusband0005

inadequate wife said:


> Can an abusive spouse ever change? If they want to change.


It is rare, but sometimes they don't fully understand what they are doing and once they realize the pain and damage they are causing they can. Usually they will not be willing to acknowledge what they are doing and accept responsibility for their actions. 

You will not find out until you stand up for yourself. If I had to guess for your husband unfortunately I would say no. Whenever the justification for abuse is religious beliefs it is almost impossible to overcome. How do you compete with gods plan.


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## NobodySpecial

inadequate wife said:


> Can an abusive spouse ever change? If they want to change.


I am no expert. But I read recently that while possible, it is very rare.


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## EleGirl

jlg07 said:


> IW, Read @EleGirl's post #84 -- PLEASE read that in depth, and understand it. The "religion" you are being told about is NOT the Catholic religion (I am Catholic). It is being tailored to supress and abuse you -- the WORST kind of religious BS.
> 
> Read about the religious vocation of marriage. Read about the religious vocation of being a husband/father and a wife/mother. Read about a wife being subservient to her husband -- it DOES NOT MEAN to be a slave, never contradicting, not being your own person, etc.. PLEASE do this for yourself -- your depression is adding to these negative thoughts and not wanting to do anything -- please get that treated by a MEDICAL doctor, not a priest. Please be aware that you are being brainwashed by your husband to a large extent and that he is manipulating you.


Yep, in the Catholic faith, the wife/mother is basically queen in her home. She must be respected, treated with love.


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## WorkingWife

My heart breaks for you and I could write a post as long as yours in response to this, but I'm going to control myself and just address a couple things I think you should focus on right now:



inadequate wife said:


> It sounds stupid but yes I think our problems are my fault. I know my husband isn't putting in enough effort and it will take both of us to fix it but I think it's my fault were at this point. I was reading a website that said the husband could act like this because the wife was too focused on the children and didn't focus on her husband and he learned to go to friends, church, family instead of his wife to have emotional needs met. And to fix it is need to praise and compliment him constantly. I don't praise or compliment him anymore. I'm not sure when it stopped. I can't expect him to treat me well if I don't treat him well.
> 
> Someone said to look at him the way I would view myself if I was treating him how he treats me. That hurts to think about. I would hate myself. I don't want to hate my husband.
> 
> I know my husband doesn't treat me the way he should. His friends wouldn't be supportive of the way he treats me. They don't know our marriage though. His parents know. But our relationship is similar to theirs. They have been married for 46 years. They seem happy. My MIL tells me that it will get better when the kids are older. They don't think any contraception that prevents implantation should be used. But are not against condoms or withdrawal and encourage spacing children and not doing so is irresponsible. I wish my husband had that view. I know it's hypocritical that I don't want my children to be in marriages like mine. This isn't the marriage that I thought I'd have. I didn't want a religious relationship. I met my husband and he seemed perfect. He was everything I didn't know I wanted.
> 
> *How do abusers hide their abuse from everyone else? If they are abusive shouldn't they treat everyone poorly?*
> 
> *You answered this yourself -- they are charming and wonderful in public. NO they would NOT treat everyone that way because they want people to think highly of them. They would rarely treat anyone other than a close family member in an abusive manner.*
> 
> If he is abusive and is only abusing me then that means he knows that he's doing it.
> 
> Correct. He knows the difference between right and wrong or he would not change his behavior in public.
> 
> That's horrible.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> He treats me completely differently at church and in public. His persona is completely different. He's happy and smiles a lot. His tone is different. He is much more interactive with our children. He holds my hand. He opens doors for me. He talks to me. He kisses me. He doesn't say anything negative. He is the husband I want him to be when we are in public. He doesn't change like that if we are only with his parents.
> 
> Again, he cares about his image. He knows no one at church or friends would approve of how he mistreats you, so he does not do that. It's probably more impressive to his parents, his father at least, if he DOES mistreat you. If he treated you with love and respect his father would probably consider him less of a man.
> 
> I don't feel like I have any power to change our marriage.
> 
> You do but it will be an evolution for you. It won't happen overnight. Don't rush yourself but know there IS a light at the end of the tunnel and this is NOT how the rest of your life is going to be. You've taken the first step coming here.
> 
> I'm not sure if sex ed is taught the same way everywhere. The area I lived in at the time was very conservative. Two women were brought in to talk about sex and we were taught based on their opinions, experiences and beliefs. I had the same two ladies from grade 7-12. One of the ladies only held hands with her husband until they married and mentioned that every time. The way she talked about it was that we didn't have to do that, but the undertone was judgemental and that if we kissed it wouldnt be as special or if we kissed anyone before our husbands it wouldnt be special. It stuck and when I met my husband we did the same. There were other things taught in a similar way.
> 
> My husband and I did premarital counselling but it wasn't through the church we were going to at the time. We were not allowed to marry there. We did marry in a different church. My husband had to get permission to marry me under the declaration that he would continue his faith while being married to me and our children would be raised Catholic.
> 
> In our premarital counselling sex was talked about, but only about compatibility. Questions were if we wanted to have sex with each other, how we would resolve differences in frequency, what sexual intimacy looked like to us, things we were opposed to, our views on birth control. We had talked about that stuff before and knew each other's answers so we said the same things. We both wanted to have sex with each other. We said we could have honest discussions about our intimacy. What we thought sexual intimacy should look like was similar. I said that I had different views on birth control but I was accepting of my husbands beliefs and we would do natural family planning. At that point my husband wanted to do NFP. My husband and I had different teachings on sex. He was only against sex during menstruation and anal sex. Oral sex was okay to him as long as he didn't have an orgasm because that's impure. I wasn't comfortable with oral sex and we agreed not to do that before premarital counselling. That all feels extremely uncomfortable to say. The church that we married in said anything was permissible, even certain birth control, as long as both of us wanted to do it. Our church that we go to is much more strict.
> 
> What has changed that your H will no longer do NFP? Does he just want sex every single day no matter what?
> 
> My doctor and midwife both said that we should wait 2 years between each pregnancy. And right now more would be preferable. When I conceived at 2 months postpartum my midwife said it would be risky and there was a high chance of a premature birth. I had to have an OBGYN consult because it was considered high risk. I know that we have 5 children because we've been having unprotected sex for 7 years. My husband still thinks that only God can choose how many children we have and when we have them. I'm not pregnant yet and he says that's because God knows it's not the right time. But that's not why. I track my cycles and my body. I should be pregnant right now.
> 
> I've used spermicide because he doesn't notice and I can usually do it and postpone long enough. When buying groceries I've asked for cashback and then bought the morning after pill because it doesn't need a prescription or health card. And the pharmacy purchase wouldn't show up on our bank statement. I know that's wrong. My husband would never forgive me and would see it as murder. I feel very guilty about it.
> 
> I cant handle anymore children. Not right now. I need a break from being pregnant. My last pregnancy wasn't horrible but was labelled high risk. The pregnancies were too close together. I gained 65 pounds on top of what I already had gained in my pregnancy before that one. So it was closer to 100 pounds. And it was mostly fluid retention. My son was small, measured behind, I had low amniotic fluid and his growth almost completely stopped at 32 weeks. I had to go to the hospital three times a week for non-stress tests and once a week for a biophysical profile. He was born full term but 5lb 1oz. I had to have him in the hospital and in the operating room ready to be put under just in case he couldn't handle it. It ended up being okay and we were both fine but I can't do it again.
> 
> My doctor said I could use the birth control shot, my husband wouldn't see pills and she can put a note on my file that it's confidential so that it's not mentioned if my husband is at an appointment with me. I can't do that behind his back though. That won't help our marriage.
> 
> Actually, YES. You CAN. Do it ASAP. This is much better than taking morning after pills that make YOU feel guilty, and that he might find. And more protective than spermicide which he also might find.
> 
> In school we were taught about abusive relationships. I should be able to see it. I know what he is doing isn't okay but I still try to protect him and our marriage. I don't want to be someone who gets abused and lets it go on forever. *It's really hard for me not to make excuses*. It makes me regret talking about it but at the same time I want to talk about it. I have been trying to read the exit plan info that was posted and it's very difficult to read. I don't want to accept that I could need that information. I don't want to think about my marriage getting so bad that I need to leave. Let alone leave urgently.
> 
> But you *can *see it. And you can see *how incredibly hard it is for the abuse victim to take back his or her power*. That doesn't mean it isn't happening and the desire to make excuses for him is classic abuse victim behavior.
> 
> Thinking about him having an affair is hard. He wouldn't do that. But he also shouldn't treat me the way he does. He picks and chooses what he believes and practises. He could with infidelity too. Thinking about it makes me want to be sick. Can a man who saved himself for marriage really turn around and go outside the marriage for sex? He was 30 when we married. Can self control be forgotten like that?
> 
> We don't hide things from each other but don't go through each other's things either. We don't look at or use each other's cellphones. Which is why I felt okay writing here. I've never searched through his vehicle and he's never searched through mine. Is that something couples actually do? I searched for signs of infidelity and some of them seemed too familiar and hurt to read. It scares me. I can make excuses for it but the what if's are worrying me. When I was with him last night I couldn’t stop thinking about it. There has been infidelity in two couples at our church and they are doing okay and worked through it with help from the church. I don't want to need to take that route. I don't want my husband to be confessing to our church that he was unfaithful. I don't think I could have the poise that other women have had. Can a couple be truly happy after infidelity? I don't know how I would forgive him for a betrayal like that. It would ruin everything. Intimacy wouldn't have meaning if he's shared it with someone else. I'm crying thinking about it.
> 
> I think it would make me look bad because he wouldn't go to someone else for intimacy if I was giving him enough. I trust my husband. Or I thought I did. I don't know if my worries are justified or if I'm only feeling this way because I let people put bad ideas in my mind.
> 
> Again, I don't think an affair is your top concern right now, but NO, it doesn't mean you are not giving him enough intimacy.
> My first husband and I had sex pretty much every day and I thought we were extremely happily married the first couple years. I also thought he would never cheat based on his professed beliefs and the fact that his first wife cheated on him and it hurt him so badly. But when we got divorced he informed me that he had been cheating on me our entire marriage. His reason? He thought it was fun.
> 
> 
> My family blamed me for things that happened in my family. My maternal grandparents, my half-brother, my paternal side of the family. Some things were my fault. I don't ever talk about it. It's really hard for me to talk about.
> 
> Me and my half-brother have different dad's. He's older than I am. My dad was abusive to my mom, me, and my brother. My mom tried to leave my dad when I was 3. She sent my brother and I to a friend's house and was going to move out when my dad was at work. My dad found out that she was leaving and went home early from work. He killed her. My mom's friend didn't hear from her and instead of calling the police went to the house with us. My mom was laying dead in a pool of her blood and there was blood all over the house. She didn't have a plan for me or my brother if she died. My brother went to live with his dad. My brother blamed me because it was my dad who killed our mom. He still blames me. We don't have a relationship. My maternal grandparents didn't want me. They blamed me. My mom only married my dad because she was pregnant with me. I went to live with my dad's sister, her husband and my paternal grandparents. It was a farm with two houses. They were abusive and controlling. I was spanked if I peed my pants. I wasn't allowed to have anything for comfort. They were controlling and I had to be perfect. I was hit when I got a 93% on an exam because it wasn't high enough. I was blamed for their son/brother being in prison. I was blamed when he was released from prison but he couldn't go see them because he wasn't allowed to be in the same province as me. I was blamed when my grandpa died and my dad couldn't see him. My grandpa touched me in ways that was uncomfortable. I moved across the country when I graduated high school. I put it behind me and moved on. It made my husband hesitate very slightly to marry me. Not being able to ask my dad or father figure for permission to marry me was difficult for him.
> 
> This is so hard to read. Sweetheart, you have been abused your entire life. I am amazed and impressed that you have the clarity of thought that you do have given your tragic background. Read your story again and pretend it is about someone you don't know. Doesn't your heart break for that little girl? Do you think she is guilty of ANYTHING or do you want to hug her and protect her and help her? You deserve your own love and help as much as anyone else does.
> 
> My mom and dad both had/have depression. My mom was suicidal. She had very bad postpartum depression. I have mental health illness on both sides.
> 
> You are probably predisposed to depression by both your biology and childhood. Don't let your husband's religious beliefs of the day stop you from loving and caring for yourself.
> 
> I'm going to start reading the books suggested. We were encouraged to read books to help build a strong marriage so it should be okay. When we did premarital counselling we both had to fill out a questionnaire. The answers he wrote are not how he's treating me, our kids or how our marriage is going. I know we still have them and maybe re-reading that would be an eyeopener for him.
> 
> I think this is an excellent idea.
> 
> 
> The can't think of the last time I felt cherished. My mind jumps back to when we were newly weds. Which was 7 years ago. That makes me sad.
> 
> When I married my husband I agreed to be active and equal in his faith, baptise our children and raise them Catholic. I was okay with that. I was raised religious and going back to it was okay. I have different beliefs than my husband, but I agreed to honour his. He didn't ever agree to honour mine, we married Catholic. Some of his beliefs are rubbing off on me. Like using birth control that allows for conception but prevents implantation. It bothers me now but years ago didn't. I've used emergency contraception and each time has felt like an abortion. And I know it's not. But my husband and our church rub off on me.
> 
> That idea bothers me now but years ago didn't also and it has nothing to do with religion, just how my thinking has evolved as I have aged. This is why I really think you should get that shot from your Dr.
> 
> Aside from getting my husband on board with NFP there is nothing I can do about birth control.
> 
> QUESTION: What exactly would he say/do if you simply refused to have sex with him when you know you are fertile? Are you afraid of him forcing you? If not, are you afraid of him becoming upset and telling you what an inadequate wife you are? If you are afraid of him just "being upset" - do it anyway. Let him be upset. And he is already upset with you and complaining about you as a wife. Do not apologize. Just let him have his emotional experience of not getting something he wants right the minute he wants it. Disappointment and not getting everything you want is just a part of life. He is able to let YOU be upset, no problem. He will live. God would not give him something he cannot handle.
> 
> Maybe his parents could talk to him. They don't have a problem with condoms, withdrawing and encourage spacing children apart. But my husband doesn't listen to their opinions because it's Islam vs Catholic. I do want things to change but that one won't. He agreed to go to marital counselling at our church.
> 
> The hours that I am "working" and the hours that my husband is at work are not equal. He spends 60 hours a week at work or commuting. We spend time together as a family on Sunday for 3-5 hours. He doesn't help me at night or at bedtime. I am "on" 24/7.
> 
> The largest family at our church has 11 children. The next largest has 8. Several with 4-5. Several with 1-3. Our church doesn't say that having a large family is a must. The only birth control method allowed by our church is natural family planning. They say its 99% effective when done properly. Most people seem to practise NFP. The family with 8 children, each child is 2-3 years apart. *My husband doesn't want to abstain two weeks a month and he thinks the decision of how many children we have is up to God. *But when we married he agreed to do NFP. I agreed not to use birth control but he's not holding up his end.
> 
> OK that answers my question of why he changed his view on NFP. You need to cut him off 2 weeks a month if that is what it takes. Tell him you have prayed and prayed and prayed and this is the answer you've gotten from God.
> 
> Also, his reneging on his end makes it 100% fair for you to do the same on your end. I would get the shot and go ahead and tell him about it unless you're worried he will become violent. Tell you "we had an agreement. you changed your mind and that leaves me no choice but to change mine." (Or just get the shot and don't tell him if you're not ready for that confrontation yet.)
> 
> 
> 
> Not all churches have the same views as ours. Regardless of that the husband is still supposed to treat his wife well. And there is nothing wrong with abstaining if both husband and wife agree or doing NFP to prevent a pregnancy for valid reason. Valid reasons are medical, financial, emotional or spacing children out. So there is no reason we can't do NFP. My husband needs to get on board. I'm not supposed to abstain if my husband doesn't want to. And that goes both ways. So refusing on certain days might not be acceptable. Saying no sometimes is okay if there is a valid reason.
> 
> I usually only eat dinner. I'm not hungry during the day anymore and can only eat a half sized portion before being full. If I do eat more I gain 10 pounds quickly and feel bloated. And my husband notices. My milk production has always been fine. I wouldn't starve a baby. I am weaning my 3 year old, its down to once every other day. My youngest two are not ready to wean. But I do consume less calories than I should. I try to avoid processed foods but somedays it's easier to put in a frozen pizza than make it fresh. Or let the kids have chicken fingers and fries so they will all eat and not complain. We do have to get better about that. It's hard to remind myself to eat. I focus on my children and end up taking a few bites of whatever I made them. I do only drink water though. We don't ever drink pop/soda and don't usually have juice.
> 
> Something is very wrong with your body. Can you log what you eat for awhile then tell your Dr. this is exactly what I am eating and drinking and my weight won't budge." You may have become diabetic while pregnant. Cortisol (from stress) and insulin prevent your body from burning fat even when it needs it.
> 
> I write in pieces when I have time. I'm sorry if this is all over the place now.
> 
> I am so glad you found this forum and are writing. I think you are in very dark times - for most of your life - but there is a good future for you in this world. Hang in there. Becoming aware of your situation is the first step.
> 
> Do I need to come clean with my husband about writing here? About things I've hid from him?
> 
> NO. If you tell him he will berate you and demand you stop because he can't keep control over you if sunlight is shined on the reality of your marriage. Yes, in an ideal marriage you would not have secrets but your situation is no where close to ideal right now.
> 
> I would be upset if my husband posted on the internet about me and my shortcomings. We're not supposed to go behind each other's backs.
> 
> Whatever... your husband is doing a LOT of things he should not be doing, and not doing a LOT of things he should be doing. None of us is perfect. It's not like you're talking about your marriage to people who KNOW who your husband is. You're just getting some objective opinions.
> 
> 
> I'm looking at my husband differently now. I shouldn't have let other people into our marriage probably. I should have gone to our church instead. I wouldn't feel so guilty. He agreed to go to counselling at our church. I should probably tell him about this. Our church is having a couples dinner in two weeks. I asked if he would go to that with me and he said maybe. He does want me to be more involved with our church so going that route might help.
> 
> That is how abusers keep control -- they don't want you to get anyone else's opinion because they know what it would be. If you read this and pretend it is another woman writing it, do you think she should not post her thoughts and feelings anonymously? You came here because you are desperate and deep inside you know that you are being abused but you don't YET have the strength to change it on your own. You can still go to the church. Again, this is ANONYMOUS. We are not IN your marriage, we are just discussing what is and is not acceptable behavior to us in marriage. ALSO read this forum -- most people on here SUPPORT marriage. They don't just leap to "Divorce him!" There is no agenda where we would want to hurt a good marriage. It's not like you went to a swinger's club and asked for marital advice.


----------



## michzz

inadequate wife said:


> I don’t remember when it started. It has been a long time. It started after I had my first child then came and went. It has been consistent for at least 3 years. *My husband is religious.* I’m not at all but I go along with him and have adjusted. My husband’s view on antidepressants is that they are sinful because they numb emotions that god intended to be felt. And depression can only be healed by going to church and praying. *My doctor and midwife thought I should take antidepressants but my husband won’t allow that.* My doctor won’t prescribe them while breastfeeding anyway. My husband has had the same wants and needs for our whole marriage, I was better at handling it 2-3 kids in. He’s become more frustrated slowly.


OK, his opinion is not Roman Catholic doctrine regarding antidepressants whatsoever.

I was raised in a catholic family of 10 kids and my dad was a psychiatrist, so I think I have some personal experience with this.

All the kids pitched in with chores. My dad did nights and weekends.

The church was a good resource for my mom for help and for social outlets.

And my dad's profession? A lot of his patients were fellow parishioners.

If you need any medication, that is between you and your doctor--not your husband. 

I think you ought to consult with your priest in private regarding your husband's theories about medicine.

And after you get validation that your H is full of beans on the subject, have your priest talk to him about it.

And the splitting of responsibilities.

If you need to go to the grocery store, just wait until he gets home and have him watch the kids while you go solo. Make that the routine.

If he doesn't like it? Too bad!

BTW, I was mostly self sufficient, as were my nine siblings by age 6-8. Including laundry, ironing, making food, getting places. Walk, bus, bike, find a ride.

You are not a slave, even to your kids. Train 'em and give them the gift of responsibility.


----------



## Violet28

inadequate wife said:


> I don't praise or compliment him anymore. I'm not sure when it stopped. I can't expect him to treat me well if I don't treat him well.


This is something you can work on, tonight when he comes home, tell him how much you appreciate that he is a good provider for you and the children. 



inadequate wife said:


> If they are abusive shouldn't they treat everyone poorly?


Not at all actually, they often focus on those they perceive to be vulnerable to them.



inadequate wife said:


> I don't feel like I have any power to change our marriage.


This is a problem, if you are already feeling defeated before you begin the battle then chances of change are small. You deserve better and must believe you deserve better, marriage is a partnership and your husband is staging a coupe, he will not change unless you give him a reason to. 



inadequate wife said:


> I said that I had different views on birth control but I was accepting of my husbands beliefs and we would do natural family planning. At that point my husband wanted to do NFP.


Remind him that he agreed to do that, if he's allowed to change his mind, so are you.



inadequate wife said:


> My doctor and midwife both said that we should wait 2 years between each pregnancy. And right now more would be preferable. When I conceived at 2 months postpartum my midwife said it would be risky and there was a high chance of a premature birth. I had to have an OBGYN consult because it was considered high risk. I know that we have 5 children because we've been having unprotected sex for 7 years. My husband still thinks that only God can choose how many children we have and when we have them. I'm not pregnant yet and he says that's because God knows it's not the right time. But that's not why. I track my cycles and my body. I should be pregnant right now.


Would God want you to put your life and another baby's life at risk because your husband doesn't want to wear a condom? 



inadequate wife said:


> I cant handle anymore children. Not right now. I need a break from being pregnant. My last pregnancy wasn't horrible but was labelled high risk. The pregnancies were too close together. I gained 65 pounds on top of what I already had gained in my pregnancy before that one. So it was closer to 100 pounds. And it was mostly fluid retention. My son was small, measured behind, I had low amniotic fluid and his growth almost completely stopped at 32 weeks. I had to go to the hospital three times a week for non-stress tests and once a week for a biophysical profile. He was born full term but 5lb 1oz. I had to have him in the hospital and in the operating room ready to be put under just in case he couldn't handle it. It ended up being okay and we were both fine but I can't do it again. My doctor said I could use the birth control shot, my husband wouldn't see pills and she can put a note on my file that it's confidential so that it's not mentioned if my husband is at an appointment with me. I can't do that behind his back though. That won't help our marriage.


I don't necessarily think that your husband is intentionally being abusive to you, I think he is doing what you will let him get away with. It seems that you are not standing up for yourself and communicating about important issues with him, you are just letting him decide everything and going along with it so you don't rock the boat. That doesn't work out well long-term. You have options too, you can refuse sex unless he wears a condom, you can get on birth control or use some method to delay conceiving. You can own your feelings, communicate them to him and tell him 'we' need to work on this. Is it fair to the children you already have to keep bringing more children in the equation? What if you had a pregnancy complication and died? Where would your husband and children be then? Why does he want so many children if he barely spends time with them? It seems that he likes appear to be the big 'family man' on Sundays, then go his own way the rest of the week. Have you ever asked him some of these questions?


----------



## WorkingWife

inadequate wife said:


> Can an abusive spouse ever change? If they want to change.


I believe some *can*. They usually won't/don't, but they *can*. Especially if his abusive behavior is cultural - modeling his father - as opposed to mental health - being narcissistic. 

But he has to *want *to change and it won't be easy. People who act like he is acting seldom *want *to change. Mainly because their behavior is not causing *them *a problem. It's getting them what they want.


----------



## inadequate wife

I feel like I am talking badly about my marriage because I’m saying negative things about our marriage. And things that are supposed to stay between my husband and I. Me and my husband don’t have disagreements in public because it’s private matters. If something happens I’m supposed to stay quiet until we are in private. I shouldn’t be saying anything about my husband to anyone. 

Reading comments that my husband is abusive is very difficult. He is my husband and I want to stand up for him. But I know that there is at least some truth in what is being said. It makes too much sense for it not to be true at all. He is copying his dad. Who probably copied his dad. And so on. I don’t want my children to copy their dad. My mom was in an abusive marriage and now here I am. I was only 3 years old when she died so maybe it’s not related. But it could be. But my husband wasn’t like this when I met him. He wasn’t perfect because no one is. But he was as close to perfect as someone could be. We were so excited to plan our life together. This isn’t what I pictured. It’s worse if he can’t or won’t change. I don’t know what I would do. I don’t like it but I feel stuck. I have never stood up to him. I won’t threaten divorce to try and get him to change. 

Why would he change and act like the worlds greatest husband? Then go back to this. Why not just stay changed?

He agreed to go to counselling. He didn’t hesitate to agree. So maybe there is hope. Even if it’s through our church. It’s better than nothing. He will listen. If the point of view isn’t coming from someone religious he won’t even listen to it. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t listen to me. Because I’m in a weird middle ground that doesn’t really fit in with non-religious people or religious people. 

I do like the conversation example about keeping the statements about myself and not judging him. My husband says I’m passive aggressive. The other conversation example about stopping apologizing. That would be harder to implement for me. I think. I always apologize. I feel like I have to. I can’t stand up to him at all. It scares me. Even though I’m not scared of him. He wouldn’t ever hit me. 

The birth control shot is considered a possible abortifacient. If it works properly and prevents ovulation then it wouldn’t cause an early abortion. I want to use it. But I don’t want to go behind my husband’s back and do that to him. I don’t understand how people can do things knowing their spouse isn’t on board. I want to respect him. He is making that difficult. 

My husband doesn’t find my body attractive anymore. But we still have sex. My clothes just barely come off. And he doesn’t touch me. 

We have sex unless there is a valid reason. If I am menstruating we do not have sex. My husband will not have sex if there is any bleeding or spotting. We do not have sex if I’m too sick. Or until healed after childbirth. Which has been 4-18 weeks. He asks how I’m feeling during that time but doesn’t mind abstaining. He has always been very good about abstaining after child birth. Even if my midwife said it was okay to have sex but I wasn’t ready he has been happy to abstain. 

I don’t know how to answer the question without being too descriptive of our sex life. I’m not supposed to discuss it with anyone other than my husband so anything I say will be awkward. Its an uncomfortable topic. Our sex life has changed a lot. That’s probably normal. Being our first time it started hilariously bad. Then it got really good. Now the best way I can describe it is that it’s for my husband. Now that I’m thinking about it I kind of miss the hilariously bad. That was the happiest time in our marriage. Being able to live together, sleep together at night, kiss each other, touch each other and be intimate. Everything was new and we were excited. The excitement and enjoyment is gone now. We have sex when he wants to. He doesn’t really ask. It’s expected. He wakes me up by pulling my pants down. He does it then he goes and sleeps on the couch. I don’t have to be into it for us to do it. So saying no wouldn’t really matter. My duties as a wife are to take care of our home, take care of our children and take care of his sexual needs. The times that I have flat out refused without a valid reason he gets grumpy and miserable until I make it up to him. It’s easier to let him do it. 

I would try antidepressants if my doctor wants me to try them and there is something that I can use while breastfeeding. My husband is against them. But he’s more against birth control. He might let that one go. If our priest says they are okay to use maybe my husband will change his mind. 

I do try and talk to my husband. He has always made the final decisions. He’s the head of the household and he is supposed to take my opinions into consideration but the decision is still his to make. He use to listen to me. And he explained his side. Then he made the decision that he thought was best for us. He doesn’t listen to me now. I talk to him and he ignores me. Or dismisses how I’m feeling. If I say something is going poorly. He says it’s going well. Or if it’s something I don’t like. It’s too bad because it’s his decision. For the what if questions. The answers would be that God wouldn’t give us more than we can handle. Everything happens for a reason. There is a master plan. It’s in God’s hands. 

Thank you for helping me. It does help. Even if it’s slow. This is all very hard for me.


----------



## happyhusband0005

I think your first order of business is to get across to him how much pain and anxiety you are feeling. Doing this with the priest may be the best option. I am concerned though because your churches interpretation of Catholicism seems cultish. But that might just be your husband and the priest may well be more moderate. 

However you need to be prepared to be brutally honest. This is your shot to stand up. You need to say the way you are treated is wrong, you need to say you are done having children until further notice and if he doesn't want to use birth control then abstinence is your only option, you need to say you need either more help around the house and with the kids or he needs to drastically lower his expectations, really it should be both. You need to say it all.

Unfortunately I think your husbands courtship of you was a ruse. I think he was always this man, he always planned to control his wife and make his wife his servant. If you were the wife of one of my best friends and I heard all this I would offer to help you leave him whatever it took. 

I really hope that he can change and learn to respect you and treat you the way you deserve to be treated. For your sake and your kids.


----------



## cc48kel

OMGosh-- I feel so sorry for you. It sounds like pure hell.. Why isn't MIL helping out? Even to allow you to grocery shop alone. 
First off your husband doesn't need to know everything. My husband likes to know whats going on BUT it doesn't mean that I share it with him. You need to take care of yourself so that you can care for your children. And that means some birth control-- Can't you speak with your doctor privately about BCP which would be so much easier than that morning after pill? I can't believe he expects you to take care of everything.. WOW Please don't have anymore kids as you have too much going on right now. I would be overwhelmed as well.

And 2, You need to start doing online shopping for groceries. Order online and pick up the order. Your a woman with 5 kids, just do it. He may not even notice, but if he does-- stick up for yourself and say you need some help! Or ask him if HE could stay home with the kids for an hour while you do the shopping in peace. Or even do a 'family' shopping trip on Saturdays. I never took my kids to the store, they stayed home with dad while I went-- just so much easier.

3-- yes get involved with the church-- just pretend as an outlet for you. I think an hour of knitting without the kids around would do wonders for you. Or even a church gathering on saturdays where the kids could play with other kids and you can sit and meditate. Counseling is great but not so sure there at that church-- I guess it depends on who is providing it. Can't you talk spouse into counseling thru his work? 

Again I'm so sorry your going thru this.. This is not a marriage at all. Please take care of yourself and I hope you can do the things above.


----------



## uhtred

OP, if your husband goes to counseling, then a 3rd person can talk to him. Its possible he honestly doesn't understand how horribly he is treating you. Its hard to imagine him not knowing though.


----------



## personofinterest

uhtred said:


> OP, if your husband goes to counseling, then a 3rd person can talk to him. Its possible he honestly doesn't understand how horribly he is treating you. * Its hard to imagine him not knowing though*.


I agree. The person who said "maybe it's unintentional"....um, no. This is not an accident.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I agree. The person who said "maybe it's unintentional"....um, no. This is not an accident.


From what I understand, abusers don't wake up and think, what can I do today to make my spouse miserable and crazy. How can I maximize my evil. They think they are RIGHT.


----------



## WorkingWife

inadequate wife said:


> I feel like I am talking badly about my marriage because I’m saying negative things about our marriage. And things that are supposed to stay between my husband and I. Me and my husband don’t have disagreements in public because it’s private matters. If something happens I’m supposed to stay quiet until we are in private. I shouldn’t be saying anything about my husband to anyone.
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but again, the only way you can be talking "bad" about your marriage by simply describing what he says and does is if what he is saying and doing is bad.
> 
> 
> Reading comments that my husband is abusive is very difficult. He is my husband and I want to stand up for him. But I know that there is at least some truth in what is being said. It makes too much sense for it not to be true at all. He is copying his dad. Who probably copied his dad. And so on. I don’t want my children to copy their dad. My mom was in an abusive marriage and now here I am. I was only 3 years old when she died so maybe it’s not related. But it could be. But my husband wasn’t like this when I met him. He wasn’t perfect because no one is. But he was as close to perfect as someone could be. We were so excited to plan our life together. This isn’t what I pictured. It’s worse if he can’t or won’t change. I don’t know what I would do. I don’t like it but I feel stuck. I have never stood up to him. I won’t threaten divorce to try and get him to change.
> 
> I would not threaten divorce to get someone to change either. But you are very unhappy and you have an obligation to inform your husband, very clearly, that you are not happy in this marriage. Then it is up to him to decide whether or not he wants to have a better marriage. If you tell him your are deeply unhappy and suffering physically and emotionally, and he does nothing to change, you may find over time that you cannot tolerate being married to him anymore. At that point, you are not threatening divorce to change him, you are telling him you are not willing to remain married to someone who treats you so badly. But you're not at that point yet, so don't worry about it now. Your strength will grow, and you may find that as you stand up for yourself you actually become more attractive to your husband.
> 
> Why would he change and act like the worlds greatest husband? Then go back to this. Why not just stay changed?
> 
> Because staying changed requires a lot of energy and concentration and unselfishness. The rewards for him would be great - he's obviously not happy with the marriage either right now - but it's just human nature to follow the path of least resistance. Right now, being a selfish tyrant is easiest for him because it's how he was raised and even if it results in a miserable marriage overall, in the immediate moment of each selfish act, it seems more rewarding.
> 
> For example, Helping your wife and letting her get a much needed break would actually be more rewarding long term because he'd have a happier wife and better behaved children and a closer relationship with both. But going golfing instead while your stressed out wife wrangles 5 kids on her own FEELS like the more pleasurable thing to do in the immediate moment.
> 
> 
> He agreed to go to counseling. He didn’t hesitate to agree. So maybe there is hope.
> 
> I think this is extremely encouraging. It makes me feel very hopeful.
> 
> Even if it’s through our church. It’s better than nothing.
> 
> Yes, hopefully the church is reasonable. They *have *to be more reasonable than he is being right now.
> (I hope!)
> 
> He will listen. If the point of view isn’t coming from someone religious he won’t even listen to it. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t listen to me. Because I’m in a weird middle ground that doesn’t really fit in with non-religious people or religious people.
> 
> There may be some truth in that, but I think he doesn't listen to you because he has developed some contempt for you based on his unrealistic expectations, but also, it's just human nature to dismiss the opinion of people you know really well. It's wrong but it seems natural. In business we have a saying "An expert is a person from another town carrying a briefcase." And there is the fact that the things you are saying require effort on his part. What is in it for him if you are saying "I need more help and support from you." Easier to just dismiss that -- "oh, she's fine..." -- than to start helping out.
> 
> I do like the conversation example about keeping the statements about myself and not judging him. My husband says I’m passive aggressive. The other conversation example about stopping apologizing. That would be harder to implement for me. I think. I always apologize. I feel like I have to. I can’t stand up to him at all. It scares me. Even though I’m not scared of him. He wouldn’t ever hit me.
> 
> When you say or do something he does not like, does he get in a "mood?" I was very much like you with my controlling ex, and really even guys I dated who were not controlling. And I was never in fear of violence either. I have thought about it a lot and realized that in my case, what I was afraid of was just their unhappiness. Maybe I was afraid I'd lose them if they weren't totally satisfied with me every second of every day? But with my ex who was controlling I realized it was because I wanted to avoid one of his "moods" from when he didn't get his way. I hated to think of him experiencing disappointment.
> 
> Once I realized that I realized that I'd been living with disappointment based on his behavior and decisions for years and it didn't phase him. I was helping create the controlling behavior by treating him like some fragile person who should be allowed to go through life with no inconveniences. It was extremely difficult but at some point I told myself: He is a grown man. He can handle disappointment just like the rest of us. It was unpleasant and I had to steel myself, but I just let him have his mood. Let him experience his frustration/unhappiness. When his "moods" stopped getting him what he wanted, he stopped using them.
> 
> The birth control shot is considered a possible abortifacient. If it works properly and prevents ovulation then it wouldn’t cause an early abortion. I want to use it. But I don’t want to go behind my husband’s back and do that to him. I don’t understand how people can do things knowing their spouse isn’t on board. I want to respect him. He is making that difficult.
> 
> Again, I'm very encouraged that he is open to counseling. Have you been 100% clear with him that you do not want to get pregnant right now? This would be out of character for you but I think it would be great if you could say something like this to him:
> 
> "Maybe I have not been clear because I love you and don't want to disappoint you, but I am truly NOT OKAY physically or mentally right now. I cannot afford to get pregnant again right now. Before we got married you said you would do NFP and I said I would follow your religion even though I don't personally agree with all of it. I need you to stick to our original agreement and do NFP with me or I am going to use _____ type of birth control. I am telling you this because I love and respect you. You are my husband and I do not want to go behind your back, but I am unwilling to risk getting pregnant again.
> 
> 
> My husband doesn’t find my body attractive anymore. But we still have sex. My clothes just barely come off. And he doesn’t touch me.
> 
> This is really sad but I think it's something that will fix itself over time. If the counseling helps and the other areas of your marriage improve. If you can get emotional relief and sleep, I think the weight will start coming off you. Also, if you and your H start interacting better together with help from counseling and those two very important books EleGirl recommended to you, your husband will start to feel closer to you and naturally become more understanding of how and why your body has changed, and just naturally find you more attractive. And if you're closer emotionally hopefully some of the playfulness of the early years will come back.
> 
> We have sex unless there is a valid reason. If I am menstruating we do not have sex. My husband will not have sex if there is any bleeding or spotting. We do not have sex if I’m too sick. Or until healed after childbirth. Which has been 4-18 weeks. He asks how I’m feeling during that time but doesn’t mind abstaining. He has always been very good about abstaining after child birth. Even if my midwife said it was okay to have sex but I wasn’t ready he has been happy to abstain.
> 
> This is really strange to me, but also a bit encouraging. If your H can abstain pretty easily, do you know WHY he doesn't want to do NFP? Does he WANT you to get pregnant again as soon as possible?
> 
> I don’t know how to answer the question without being too descriptive of our sex life. I’m not supposed to discuss it with anyone other than my husband so anything I say will be awkward. Its an uncomfortable topic. Our sex life has changed a lot. That’s probably normal. Being our first time it started hilariously bad. Then it got really good. Now the best way I can describe it is that it’s for my husband. Now that I’m thinking about it I kind of miss the hilariously bad. That was the happiest time in our marriage. Being able to live together, sleep together at night, kiss each other, touch each other and be intimate. Everything was new and we were excited. The excitement and enjoyment is gone now. We have sex when he wants to. He doesn’t really ask. It’s expected. He wakes me up by pulling my pants down. He does it then he goes and sleeps on the couch. I don’t have to be into it for us to do it. So saying no wouldn’t really matter. My duties as a wife are to take care of our home, take care of our children and take care of his sexual needs. The times that I have flat out refused without a valid reason he gets grumpy and miserable until I make it up to him. It’s easier to let him do it.
> 
> I would try antidepressants if my doctor wants me to try them and there is something that I can use while breastfeeding. My husband is against them. But he’s more against birth control. He might let that one go. If our priest says they are okay to use maybe my husband will change his mind.
> 
> Please ask your doctor about bio-identical progesterone too. I have read that when you give birth your progesterone level drops to zero. Then your body has to restart it but sometimes just doesn't and that's a major cause of postpartum depression. When I went on hormone replacement and anti-depressants after menopause, my Dr. had me start the progesterone first. I am telling you, I could literally FEEL "relief" in my blood stream. I told my Dr. and she said "Yes, progesterone is the 'feel good hormone.'" Since then, I've had Drs. who didn't seem to know as much act surprised that it had that effect, and say that hormone replacement therapy was dangerous. But then I learned they were prescribing the synthetic stuff, not the natural, bio-identical. The synthetic progesterone is NOT the same and studies show it can actually increase anxiety and agitation, as opposed to lowering it. All the "dangers" you hear about hormones are about the synthetic stuff. Reading on the internet, I see a lot about progesterone helping women. They have over the counter creams you can buy too, which I swear helped me, but the dose from them is microscopic compared to prescription
> 
> I do try and talk to my husband. He has always made the final decisions. He’s the head of the household and he is supposed to take my opinions into consideration but the decision is still his to make. He use to listen to me. And he explained his side. Then he made the decision that he thought was best for us. *He doesn’t listen to me now. I talk to him and he ignores me. Or dismisses how I’m feeling. If I say something is going poorly. He says it’s going well. Or if it’s something I don’t like. It’s too bad because it’s his decision.* For the what if questions. The answers would be that God wouldn’t give us more than we can handle. Everything happens for a reason. There is a master plan. It’s in God’s hands.
> 
> The part I bolded is actually very common in a lot of marriages, not just ones where there is religion to use as an excuse for being a tyrant. You are having an awakening, that too is part of God's will and something God is doing to make your marriage better. Yes, your husband is definitely controlling and abusive. But he's also acting like the typical person (typical man, if I can say that...) who is allowed to act that way. If he can dismiss your distress and dinner still appears and the kids still get taken care of and there is still sex, etc. it's just easier to dismiss your distress than take it seriously.
> 
> Thank you for helping me. It does help. Even if it’s slow. This is all very hard for me.
> 
> I think you are actually realizing things very quickly compared to most in your situation. Read the books and get the counseling. Do what you can to be more assertive but don't be too hard on yourself for not always handling things perfectly. True change will come with time and practice. I would think triage - what is the most urgent/important thing?
> 
> 1. Making sure you don't get pregnant again.
> 2. Somehow getting to sleep through the night and finding out what's up with your mental and physical health. (Having a Dr. explain the very real consequences of sleep deprivation to your husband might be very helpful.)
> 3. Getting into counseling and getting some outside support
> 4. Reading the books so you understand more of why each of you are doing what you do and what you can both do that would work better.
> 5. Getting a handle on the kids (easier once you are emotionally stronger).


----------



## WorkingWife

NobodySpecial said:


> From what I understand, abusers don't wake up and think, what can I do today to make my spouse miserable and crazy. How can I maximize my evil. They think they are RIGHT.


Exactly, that's my thought. They aren't thinking "I want to be a jerk to my spouse for fun." They are acting on instinct to get their way in each moment. I also believe that's one of the reasons it's so hard for the victim of the bad behavior to get out of the situation. They see the abuser as a human being who is not trying to be abusive, and who has reasons (upbringing) for why they act the way they do. When everyone starts calling your spouse abusive it's natural to feel defensive because you know them as a complete human being who isn't TRYING to be abusive. Who certainly doesn't see him or herself as abusive. 

I think it's best to focus on their actions more than their intent. Bottom line, their actions are abusive and not acceptable.


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## Adelais

Up until my oldest child was 12 and could watch his younger siblings, my husband would always call before he left work in the evening and ask if there was anything we (I) needed at the grocery store. On Saturday I would go in to town to buy clothes, and all the other little items that couldn't be purchased at the grocery store. It gave him some alone time with the children, and it was a change of scenery for me.

You might ask your husband to stop by the grocery every night on his way home, and call you from there for what is needed. He is going to balk, but there is no reason for him to not help with the shopping. Ask him to stay home with the children for few hours on the weekends so you can do some things for yourself. If he refuses, get up early on Saturday and leave the house before he leaves to play golf or whatever he does with his friends. Of course you will have to take your nursing baby if it is not on solids yet, but that is easier than hauling them all with you. He will be irate, but when you come home with your trunk full of all the merchandise you purchased for the family while you were out, tell him "That is how grown up men and women act. They take care of their familiy, instead of going out all day to play on the weekend." Get a hair trim while you are out as well. Take care of yourself. 

You have had a very hard life, and much of it when you didn't have a voice or power. You are a woman now, and while the little girl inside still hurts from the abuse growing up, you do not have to take it anymore.

Have you had counseling for your childhood trauma? You have had enough trauma to be curled up in a corner, and yet you are a lovely young woman who loves her husband and cares for her children. If you haven't had counseling for that, figure out a way to get a babysitter so you can get weekly counseling for yourself.

When you speak to a marriage counselor from your church, if you sense they are taking the patriarchal route, by blaming you for the problems and expecting you to change "so your husband will have a reason to be happy" don't hesitate to tell him that he is wrong, abusive also, and leave the room. There are counselors who believe marriage is a mutual relationship, and that all the hard flexing is not solely on the "submissive" wife. Find one like that, and refuse to see one who expects you to be more submissive and do all the heavy work of change.


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## happyhusband0005

WorkingWife said:


> Exactly, that's my thought. They aren't thinking "I want to be a jerk to my spouse for fun." They are acting on instinct to get their way in each moment. I also believe that's one of the reasons it's so hard for the victim of the bad behavior to get out of the situation. They see the abuser as a human being who is not trying to be abusive, and who has reasons (upbringing) for why they act the way they do. When everyone starts calling your spouse abusive it's natural to feel defensive because you know them as a complete human being who isn't TRYING to be abusive. Who certainly doesn't see him or herself as abusive.
> 
> I think it's best to focus on their actions more than their intent. Bottom line, their actions are abusive and not acceptable.


This is the big problem with an abusive person changing. It sounds like in the OPs situation the husband and repeating the behavior of his father. It can't be understated how deeply ingrained the behavior of a parent can become to a child exposed to it. The brain is developing until about 25 years old so when a kid witnesses abusive behavior from a parent their brain gets wired to model the same behavior. When you have the added fact that religion is being twisted to support these behaviors your have a granite shell you need to shatter to get that person to change. It seems virtually impossible to me.


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## WorkingWife

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is the big problem with an abusive person changing. It sounds like in the OPs situation the husband and repeating the behavior of his father. It can't be understated how deeply ingrained the behavior of a parent can become to a child exposed to it. The brain is developing until about 25 years old so when a kid witnesses abusive behavior from a parent their brain gets wired to model the same behavior. When you have the added fact that religion is being twisted to support these behaviors your have a granite shell you need to shatter to get that person to change. It seems virtually impossible to me.


It very well may be. Also, while people CAN change, they seldom actually DO. Still, the fact that he was immediately open to counseling gives me some optimism for them.

Also, she has a history of being abused basically all her life ingrained in her personality and it is probably part of why she was drawn to this particular man. She may ultimately find the only way to save herself and her children is to abandon the marriage. If that's the case, it will happen over time. I do think she should still prepare herself for worst case scenario by learning her options.


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## Taxman

You are in an abusive marriage, and religion is being used against you. Stop feeling guilty for trying not to get pregnant. If your marriage ended, would he be the caregiver? Probably not, you would be in even worse circumstances. You sound young enough to be one of my kids. If one of them would be in a relationship like yours, two things would happen. 1) I would want you to separate, take the kids to my home, and raise them there. 2) Your husband probably would never have sex again, as I would have him on the ground and kick his nads til they resembled a pair of hairy earrings. I want you to document every thing this ba2tard does. Stop swallowing his view of religion, it is beyond restrictive and punitive. You are going to look for a lawyer, and you are going to get him. Nothing stops an abuser better than a court order. I had one particularly despicable guy who was a) having multiple affairs b) had just quit his high paying job for "self-employment" c) was deflating their bank accounts and inflating their line of credit to the tune of $10K per month. He thought that he was so superior and had covered his tracks more than adequately. Our PI made short work of all of the cover ups. When he was cornered, he threw his "church's" admonition that she MUST obey him. Too bad we had worked on her for two months. She was angry to degrees he never expected. When he barked "Obey me" to her, she kicked him in the balls so viciously that he doubled over and wrecked my carpet. We eviscerated him, we had the judge assess his spousal support and his child support based on the earnings from the career he quit. We removed him from the home, and demanded replacement of the funds used to "launch" his business (nothing of the sort, he used the money on wining and dining women, escorts, and gambling) The marital home was sold and most of the proceeds went to the betrayed wife. By the time we were done with him, he will be working a very very long time to repay his Xwife, her family and the bank. He gets to see his children less than 50% of the time. He was reported to the deacons of his church, with evidence of infidelity, and evidence of embezzlement from his in-laws and wife, in short, his life was reduced to wage slave, making enough to pay his ex and repay funds stolen.

Postscript: I wanted to update my comments, in reading your posts, I seem to detect some extremism in the rituals of your church. I am not aware of a mainstream faith that operates in the fashion that fits your description. Could you please elaborate?


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## WorkingWife

How are things going? I know you don't have much time to post and you've only had a couple days to work on digesting people's advice/information, but I hope you'll keep us updated when you can. I think a lot of people are pulling for you for things to get better. I know I am. 






inadequate wife said:


> I'm a failure as wife. My husband hates me. I can't do anything right for him. I don't keep the house clean enough. I don't manage the kids well enough. I ask him for help too often. He doesn't want to be around me. He won't spend time with me. He won't kiss me. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't cuddle me. He hates me, because I suck as a wife and mother. Nothing I do is right or enough and I don't know what to do to make him happy. He tells me what he needs and I still cannot make him happy anymore. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm a failure as a wife. I can't even keep my husband happy. It's the one thing I should be able to do. He thinks I'm a bad mother, and if he thinks that then it's probably true. I can't do anything right.


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## NobodySpecial

Whether you update us or not, be aware that we are rooting for you. You are wonderful, and you deserve to HEAR IT. Go Mrs A Whole Lot Better than Merely Adequate!


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## inadequate wife

My husband agreed to go to counselling. He agreed that we could abstain from sex for a while. It was going okay. He was helping a bit more. He was okay with having the groceries delivered or picked up. He added his own items to the online cart before checkout. We were not having sex. He made some time for us to watch a movie at night. He decided he wanted to have sex. I said no because it was one of my fertile days and he had agreed to no sex at all. I said no. He said yes and forced it. He always has but not like that. He hasn't hit me before. I said that I didn't want to and tried to stop him. He didn't care. He wouldn't stop. He forced oral sex and we don't do that. He did it a few days in a row. I want out. But I have 5 kids and I'm pregnant. I'm terrified. My husband is thrilled. He keeps saying I'm a good wife now. He's being affectionate. He hired a nanny so we could go away for a weekend alone. He was a completely different person that weekend. But all I can think about is him forcing sex and hurting me. He said he had to in order to complete our family. He said this can be our last but I don't believe him. I can't leave. If he's being better maybe it will stay that way right? I don't look at him the same way anymore. I don't like him or love him. I'm scared of him and I feel gross around him. He's my husband though. I chose him. I don't know what to do. I want out but I can't. So I have to love him again but I don't know how. I have to have sex with him now because there is no excuse now. He wants me to do different things. I don't want to but we do anyway. He says it will make our marriage better and we will bond more. He said it makes me a better wife. I don't feel that. He is being more affectionate. He is helping more. He said we can hire someone to help. He's spending more time with me. He says I'm being a good wife by giving him what he wants and trusting him with what is best for our family. I don't know what to do anymore.


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## NobodySpecial

inadequate wife said:


> My husband agreed to go to counselling. He agreed that we could abstain from sex for a while. It was going okay. He was helping a bit more. He was okay with having the groceries delivered or picked up. He added his own items to the online cart before checkout. We were not having sex. He made some time for us to watch a movie at night. He decided he wanted to have sex. I said no because it was one of my fertile days and he had agreed to no sex at all. I said no. He said yes and forced it. He always has but not like that. He hasn't hit me before. I said that I didn't want to and tried to stop him. He didn't care. He wouldn't stop. He forced oral sex and we don't do that. He did it a few days in a row. I want out. But I have 5 kids and I'm pregnant. I'm terrified. My husband is thrilled. He keeps saying I'm a good wife now. He's being affectionate. He hired a nanny so we could go away for a weekend alone. He was a completely different person that weekend. But all I can think about is him forcing sex and hurting me. He said he had to in order to complete our family. He said this can be our last but I don't believe him. I can't leave. If he's being better maybe it will stay that way right? I don't look at him the same way anymore. I don't like him or love him. I'm scared of him and I feel gross around him. He's my husband though. I chose him. I don't know what to do. I want out but I can't. So I have to love him again but I don't know how. I have to have sex with him now because there is no excuse now. He wants me to do different things. I don't want to but we do anyway. He says it will make our marriage better and we will bond more. He said it makes me a better wife. I don't feel that. He is being more affectionate. He is helping more. He said we can hire someone to help. He's spending more time with me. He says I'm being a good wife by giving him what he wants and trusting him with what is best for our family. I don't know what to do anymore.


He raped you. Do you know that? What he did has a word. It is called rape.


Hold on.


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## NobodySpecial

@EleGirl Calling on you once again for your helpful step-by-step procedure for getting out.

Of COURSE you don't feel like his abuse is bonding. Of COURSE you don't feel like his abuse makes you know how to love him. Because HE IS AN ABUSER.


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## NobodySpecial

Sorry. I thought this was a new post.


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## inadequate wife

It's my fault for not being willing to be intimate with him. I don't want to use rape and my husband in the same sentence. It feels like that though... But he's my husband.


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## NobodySpecial

inadequate wife said:


> It's my fault for not being willing to be intimate with him. I don't want to use rape and my husband in the same sentence. It feels like that though... But he's my husband.


You may not WANT to. But it remains true. It is NOT your fault. 

Stop. And repeat this to yourself.

I am not to blame. It is NOT my fault that this person ABUSES me.


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## 3Xnocharm

inadequate wife said:


> It's my fault for not being willing to be intimate with him. I don't want to use rape and my husband in the same sentence. It feels like that though... But he's my husband.


It feels like that because it IS that. Call it what it IS, its RAPE. Your husband is disgusting and abusive. I hope you can find a way out.


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## NobodySpecial

inadequate wife said:


> It's my fault for not being willing to be *intimate *with him. I don't want to use rape and my husband in the same sentence. It feels like that though... But he's my husband.


It might be helpful to your thinking to recognize that forced sex is NOT intimate.


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## manfromlamancha

inadequate wife said:


> I'm 30 and my husband is 37. Our children are 9m, 20m, 3y, 4.5y and 6y. I don't work. My responsibilities are the children and the house and what goes along with both. Taking my 6 year old to school, homework, appointments, lessons, bills, cleaning, cooking, laundry, maintenance. I do the grocery shopping. It's hard getting out of the house and shopping with the kids. I usually forget things he wants or things we need. He works 8-4 Monday to Friday but commutes in rush hour so he is gone from 6-6. Our marriage hasn't always been like this. I managed better before. We married 7 years ago.
> 
> Please don't be mean. I'm his wife not a slave.


Jesus H Christ!!!! 

Look - I would much rather "go to work" than stay at home and cope with all that [email protected]! First of all, there is no instruction manual or reference book on how to cope with 5 terrorists at home!!! And let me say that maybe the 6 yo might show some mercy to you but the other younger (what do you call em - oh yes) "babies" take no prisoners. You need a medal for being able to feed them and just about keep them alive.

You have got a tough job so please, please, please do not beat up yourself over them. We had four young ones (all kind of grown up now or so they would have me believe) at home and I am amazed my wife is only an alcoholic now.

Jokes aside - you need to take a moment and collect yourself. Realise that NOONE can criticise you (including your husband) until they really have walked a mile in your shoes. And by that I mean not just staying home with the kids but also experiencing all of your anxiety, worries, fears etc.

If you need help reach out for it and take it from wherever it comes.

You will be fine. Have the kids resorted to cannabilism and drugs yet ? If not then you are doing great.

Take care of yourself.


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## EleGirl

There are links to two safety/exit plan info sites.....

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/DV_Safety_Plan.pdf

Safety Planning ? Domestic Violence Resource Center

Below is a safety exist plan that I put together. You can look through all this and take what makes sense for you and make your own plan.....
========================================
Call 911 and they will help you get away.

* The USNational Domestic Violence Hotline | 24/7 Confidential Support*
If you are afraid your internet usage might be monitored call the national domestic violence hotline at 1 800 799 7233.
========================================
In Canada: 
1-866-863-0511 (Toll Free) 
416-863-0511 (Toronto)
I need counselling, health care, mental health or financial services
========================================

It is very hard to leave a marriage. Boy do I know that from experience. There is a way to make it easier… having a plan and having a strong support system. Just work your plan one step at a time. That way you are not look at a huge problem. Instead you are looking at small steps. 

If you search on the internet for "domestic abuse exit plan" or "domestic abuse safety plan" a lot will come up that you can look over. The one below is one that I added some things to base on my own experience.

*Get a support system: *



Find a local organization that provides counseling and help for victims of domestic abuse (emotional and physical). Get into counseling with them. They will have sliding scale counseling.


Also check into legal aid in your area.



Talk to attorneys and do research on the internet to find out your rights in divorce. Check on sites like Amazon for books about divorce in your state. Be informed. Check out legal aid in your area. Ask the domestic abuse organization if they have a list of attorneys who do pro-bono work or very low fee work and how specialize in cases of divorce with domestic abuse. Most will have such a list. Many attorneys will give a half hour free consultation. If you have a good list of questions, you can learn about your rights and how the local court system handles specific issues. You might even find an attorney that you really like.


Let a trusted family member, friend, coworker or neighbors know your situation. Develop a plan for when you need help; code words you can text if in trouble, a visual signal like a porch light: on equals no danger, off equals trouble. 
If you do not have friends of your own, start making them. Even if you don’t share your situation with them, just having a social outlet for you and even your children will help. One way to meet people is to go to www.meetup.com Search for meetup groups in your area. In most areas they have a lot of things to choose from. You just sign up and go.


*Set up a ‘safe address’ and ‘safe storage space’. *



If you have a trusted friend/family-member, ask them if you can use their address for some things and if you can store some things at their place… like a box of important papers. If you do not have someone who will help you out in this way, rent a PO Box and a small storage space. Use the ‘safe addresses for your mail. Use the ‘safe storage space’ to keep important things you will need like:


your mail from the ‘safe address’


All account info and ATM card for your personal checking account


Copies of all financial paperwork, filed tax forms, etc.


Certified copies of birth certificates, marriage license, passports, 


Car title, social security cards, credit cards, 


Citizenship documents (such as your passport, green card, etc.) 


Titles, deeds and other property information 


Medical records


Children's school and immunization records


Insurance information


Verification of social security numbers Make sure you know your husband’s Social Security Number and your son’s. 


Welfare identification


Valued pictures, jewelry or personal possessions
​*Financial Plan*


Consider getting a job as soon as you can if you do not already have one. This will give you access to money and independence.


*Your safety Plan: *

You need a safety plan just in case you need to leave immediately if things get out of hand. 



Know the phone number to your local battered women's shelter. 


Keep your cell phone on you at all times for dialing 911. It’s best to dial 911. You need to establish a record of his abuse. So call 911 and start creating that record. If you think that it is not safe for you to leave, ask the 911 operator to send the police so that they can ensure your and your child’s safety when you leave.


If you are injured, go to a doctor or an emergency room and report what happened to you. Ask that they document your visit. 


Keep a journal of all violent incidences, noting dates, events and threats made. 


Keep any evidence of physical abuse, such as pictures. 


You can get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times when you are around your husband. This way you can get recordings of the abuse. 


Plan with your children and identify a safe place for them. Reassure them that their job is to stay safe, not to protect you.


If you need to sneak away, be prepared. Make a plan for how and where you will escape. 


Back your car into the driveway, and keep it fueled. Keep your driver's door unlocked and other doors locked for a quick escape. 


Hide an extra set of car keys. 


Set money aside. Open a checking account in your name only and put your paycheck (or a portion of it) in that account. Do not use the address of the home you live in with him for this checking account. Use your ”safe address” to the account and keep all of the paperwork related to the account in your “safe storage space”. 


Pack a bag. Include an extra set of keys, IDs, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, credit cards, marriage license, clothes for yourself and your children, shoes, medications, banking information, money" anything that is important to you. Store them at a trusted friend or neighbor's house. Try to avoid using the homes of next-door neighbors, close family members and mutual friends. 


Take important phone numbers of friends, relatives, doctors, schools, etc. 


Know abuser's schedule and safe times to leave. 


Be careful when reaching out for help via Internet or telephone. Erase your Internet browsing history, websites visited for resources, e-mails sent to friends/family asking for help. If you called for help, dial another number immediately after in case abuser hits redial. 


Create a false trail. Call motels, real estate agencies and schools in a town at least six hours away from where you plan to relocate.

*After Leaving the Abusive Relationship*



 *If you get a restraining order, and the offender is leaving the family home: *


Change your locks and phone number. 


Change your work hours and route taken to work. 


Change the route taken to transport children to school. 


Keep a certified copy of your restraining order with you at all times. 


Inform friends, neighbors and employers that you have a restraining order in effect. 


Give copies of the restraining order to employers, neighbors and schools along with a picture of the offender. 


Call law enforcement to enforce the order. 

​


 *If you leave the family home: *



Do not leave your children with your abusive spouse/partner. Take them with you. Talk to your attorney and/or the abuse organization counselors to make sure you do this in a way that will not jeopardize your future custody rights. You don’t want to look like you are kidnapping your children.


Consider renting a post office box or using the address of a friend for your mail. Be aware that addresses are on restraining orders and police reports. Be careful to whom you give your new address and phone number. 


Change your work hours, if possible. 


Alert school authorities of the situation. 


Consider changing your children's schools. 


Reschedule appointments if the offender is aware of them. 


Use different stores and frequent different social spots. 


Alert neighbors, and request that they call the police if they feel you may be in danger. 


Talk to trusted people about the violence. 


Replace wooden doors with steel or metal doors. Install security systems if possible. Install a motion sensitive lighting system. 


Tell people you work with about the situation and have your calls screened by one receptionist if possible. 


Tell people who take care of your children who can pick up your children. Explain your situation to them and provide them with a copy of the restraining order. 


Call the telephone company to request caller ID. Ask that your phone number be blocked so that if you call anyone, neither your partner nor anyone else will be able to get your new, unlisted phone number.

​ 
Here are some ways you can find out things about your finances and some about how you can start saving money in your own name. I’m not putting them on the open forum because I don’t want to tip off people who are abusers.

Some of this might sound crazy. But you are completely in the dark and these are ways that people I know, even I, got the info we needed so that our spouse could not rip us off in a divorce.

Check his wallet and get photographs of any cards and other info that he has in there to include his driver’s license. Make sure to save them somewhere that he cannot get to, like on the cloud.

If he has a brief case do the same thing to it. Do you have a scanner at home? If not get one. I have a small portable that’s easy to use. That’s all you need. Just scan everything in his briefcase into pdf or jpgs. And again keep that info in a cloud account.

If you do use a cloud account, make sure that it does not create an account on your PC that he could see. There is a way to prevent that.

Does he have a home office or a place at home where he works sometimes? If so search it (often). Check the trash.. (I found out all kinds of stuff about my husband by searching his trash. Like I found letters from his affair partner. That’s how I found out about one of his affairs. I also found receipts and statements showing that he was moving money that I earned into accounts and investments in his and his mother’s name. 

Another thing that you might want to try is to go through the trash from his business if you can get to it. Just snatch the bags of trash out of the trash bin into your car, take them some place where he will not see you go through it and search. I kid you not, you can find stuff.

Get a key to his car. Make one if you need to. Then search it often. Search every cranny. Again I found all kinds of info that way. My then husband was hiding papers in the well where the spare tire and tools go. When he traveled, I drove to the airport, found his car in long-term parking and searched it. He was using his car to hide things while he traveled.

Get online and order his credit report. It could lead to all kinds of info on accounts he has.

Search the court records for any law suits. If he has a business, it might have been sued and he might have had to disclose financial info. Here where I live there is a website for the state of New Mexico where we can search on a person’s name to find all court cases of any kind… to include if they were sued, arrested and charged, divorced, etc. I’m sure that New York has something similar.

Make sure that you take an inventory of everything of value in your home. Take photos of everything. And do a walking inventory through the house. That way he cannot hide or dispose of things of value during a divorce.
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Now about money

Then open bank accounts in your name only. Use an address other than your home address. Also do electronic statements, etc. so that there is no paperwork for him to find. You can open a bank account with as little as $25.

If at all possible, every time you go to a store, get out cash. Even if it’s $10. I know a woman who did this. She’d get out between $40 and $60 with every purchase. It added up… to thousands over a few year period. Make sure that you throw away the receipts before you get home or keep them where he cannot find them. Do not put them in your home trash.

Go through your house and sell anything that you can. Just tell him that you are wanting to simplify your life and declutter. List things on craigslist and sell it. Put the money in your bank account.


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## EleGirl

The above post is what is called a "Safety Plan" or "Exit Plan".

I put it together using some I found online and added some things from my own experience.

The idea is that you take the plan, customize it for your own situation. And then you work it, day at a time, one step at a time until the only thing left to do is to walk out the door and never look back.


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## Uriel

WoW…I made it to page 7. Disastrous to say the least,…unless “Epic” changes happen I see spouse and children suffering grave mental illness. Even if any of this is embellished, there is still enough truth here to say the husband has a disturbing underling sickness himself. A damaging sickness…like a fatal disease, death will occur to people around him . I cannot see a happy ending here. It takes two to communicate…sender and receiver, and in a loving relationship this has to be both ways…receiver responding and sender now receiving. Most importantly “Action” needs to take place after two people communicate, and in a marriage there “Must” always be a compromise. Even if there is professional help…his character described would be one of a game player and revert back to. May God bless you, I fear to worst has yet to come. 

I am sad for you, deeply! I choose not to use the word sorriful, because sorry leaves hope


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## Blondilocks

inadequate wife said:


> It's my fault for not being willing to be intimate with him. I don't want to use rape and my husband in the same sentence. It feels like that though... But he's my husband.


What he is doing is called spousal rape and in the United States he can be prosecuted. Do you live in the US?


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