# Innocent Text?



## anonymous42

So my wife is getting a really expensive tattoo that covers her entire back and requires multiple long sessions to finish. She admitted that the artist is 26 and attractive, and she even told me that she texted him saying, 

"This is ***** we can do it next Friday or sometime next week." 

Before he replied, she added,

"I just realized how that sounded. lol"

And she even told me all of this. Well, the next day she left her cell phone at home when she went to work, so I looked at the text and it went on,..... he replied to her sexual inuendo,

"Sounds like a plan, we can do that!!! Just bring in $800 and we can make magic happen!! "

To which she replied,

"Alright. Sounds great, so long as you're worth my while...what time?"

He replies, "1 PM ???"

They text goodbye and she ends with a smiley face.

IMO, she is basically giving this guy an open invitation to nail her ass or get a blo job after he tatts her up and takes all of our money. Am I insane to think that?

I confronted her about my insecurity and she showed me the text word for word and did not try to delete or hide anything. She thought that I was overreacting and said that there was nothing to it. 

It still did not make me feel better. If a girl tells me that, married or not, I'm thinking I can do that if I want it and if not at least get a BJ. Right??? Or am I crazy?

Please help


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## anonymous42

We have been married 2 and a half years and I have never caught her doing anything and she says she has always been faithful to me, but never had long lasting relationships before me.


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## Mavash.

Is she a flirt by nature?


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## PBear

Honestly, I think the texting was perhaps a little flirtatious, but you're over-reacting. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## totamm

She sounds a bit on the wild side with a tattoo that covers her entire back.

That plus the text?

eyes open


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## anonymous42

She is attractive and flirtatious by nature...I guess I am too. I just want to know if you are a guy and a married woman tells you that do you think you can screw her?


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## Toffer

Not really

Why not go with her to "mark" your territory?

Does she have any other occasions of infidelity or improper behavior in the past? You seem a bit anxious over this


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## TBT

Maybe you need to set some boundaries together or revisit your old ones.


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## Entropy3000

Toffer said:


> Not really
> 
> Why not go with her to "mark" your territory?
> 
> Does she have any other occasions of infidelity or improper behavior in the past? You seem a bit anxious over this


I would go with her. I get that there are a lot of long sessions.

Does this come with a free clit piercing?


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## AWorkInProgress

Regardless of whether she has done/not done anything 'improper' before, this situation made you uncomfortable (nothing wrong with that). Perhaps you came across as accusatory (the over-reaction)? 

The text does seem too flirtatious for a married woman in my opinion. I would not like my husband to be interacting with another woman in that manner (it would feel disrespectful to me and our marriage).

This is a great opportunity to express to your wife what types of interactions may be more honoring to you and your marriage. It allows you both to agree on what each other is comfortable with. It shouldn't be a demand, but then you both can decide on how you want to be considered in these types of interactions. 

Both my husband and I are very personable. We tend to chat up anyone we come in contact with throughout our day. You can be very kind/friendly without being flirtatious or giving ambiguous sexual vibes to someone.

It's a good moment for you and your wife to tease out your boundaries. Then you are both aware that when those boundaries aren't considered, that it may have the potential to hurt the other.


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## CH

Go with her when she gets the tat done?


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## anonymous42

I would just be standing there in the lobby like a fool. I guess I just let it go...and focus on her more.


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## bailingout

AWorkInProgress said:


> Regardless of whether she has done/not done anything 'improper' before, this situation made you uncomfortable (nothing wrong with that). Perhaps you came across as accusatory (the over-reaction)?
> 
> The text does seem too flirtatious for a married woman in my opinion. I would not like my husband to be interacting with another woman in that manner (it would feel disrespectful to me and our marriage).
> 
> This is a great opportunity to express to your wife what types of interactions may be more honoring to you and your marriage. It allows you both to agree on what each other is comfortable with. It shouldn't be a demand, but then you both can decide on how you want to be considered in these types of interactions.
> 
> Both my husband and I are very personable. We tend to chat up anyone we come in contact with throughout our day. You can be very kind/friendly without being flirtatious or giving ambiguous sexual vibes to someone.
> 
> It's a good moment for you and your wife to tease out your boundaries. Then you are both aware that when those boundaries aren't considered, that it may have the potential to hurt the other.


:iagree: especially with the 1st paragraph. If it made YOU uncomfortable, she should respect your feelings and you should discuss. If you came across as accusatory, that also should be discussed.


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## daffodilly

I find the text inappropriate, but wouldn't necessarily assume anything was going on. 

You can let it go but definitely have a conversation about boundaries.


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> I would just be standing there in the lobby like a fool. I guess I just let it go...and focus on her more.


Why would you be in the lobbey?

So to push this even further how far does she have to undress for these? I assume shirtless for much of it with her laying on her breasts.

Is there a point where the pants have to come down?

This is where I here folks chime in that this guy os a pro ... like a doctor. he sees naked woman all the time.

I was not really joking about the clit piercing. Since she is in his chair and she is really into this, will they be discussing her next tat that covers other areas beyond this? Will he be examining her breasts for her nipple piercing. My point is that this isolated time can push boundaries very far. What are yours.

I assume she is not using a female because this guy is an artist and she wants his work ... yadda yadda.


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## chillymorn

anonymous42 said:


> I would just be standing there in the lobby like a fool. I guess I just let it go...and focus on her more.


what?

your paying 800$ and you woun't be able to go in and watch.

hmmmmm, grow a pair!

tell her your going and thats that. because you care about your wifes safety! then if they balk at you watching tell him you will find someone else to do it or finish it. if your balks kick her to the curb and move on before you invest any more of your time and resources on someone who totaly disrespects you!


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## sinnister

anonymous42 said:


> She is attractive and flirtatious by nature...I guess I am too. *I just want to know if you are a guy and a married woman tells you that do you think you can screw her?*


Probably...definitely a good chance to score a good BJ though.

Listen, I think this is harmless especially since she showed you the whole story without trying to hide anything. But a married woman needs to know what a text like that does to a guys brain...both of them. Tat boy may not make a move but now he THINKS he can if he wanted it.


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## GoodForNothing

anonymous42 said:


> She is attractive and flirtatious by nature...I guess I am too. I just want to know if you are a guy and a married woman tells you that do you think you can screw her?


They are definitely being inappropriate at some level and both of them are expressing interest. There is something that goes on between some women who get tattoos and their artists, I don't entirely get why. That being said, just keep an eye out to make sure everything stays on the level.


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## anonymous42

Entropy

She has her shirt off the whole time and is going to get her leg done so will have pants off for that. She says she would not do anything and that he is too young and hot but he is only 2 years younger than her and she is hot and has lost 12 pounds since this process started. Also, he texted her 2 days later to make sure she was healing up. I feel like he knows he has it in the bag. Do you think he feels that way?


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## Cosmos

> IMO, she is basically giving this guy an open invitation to nail her ass or get a blo job after he tatts her up and takes all of our money. Am I insane to think that?


I didn't read the above in:-



> "This is ***** we can do it next Friday or sometime next week."
> 
> Before he replied, she added,
> 
> "I just realized how that sounded. lol"
> 
> he replied to her sexual inuendo,
> 
> "Sounds like a plan, we can do that!!! Just bring in $800 and we can make magic happen!! "
> 
> To which she replied,
> 
> "Alright. Sounds great, so long as you're worth my while...what time?"
> 
> He replies, "1 PM ???"
> 
> They text goodbye and she ends with a smiley face.


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## anchorwatch

anonymous42 said:


> I would just be standing there in the lobby like a fool. I guess I just let it go...and focus on her more.


Noooo..... you'd be in the studio room with them or she gets a female artist to do the work. Comprendre!


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## anonymous42

anchor,
I checked out the studio yesterday, but the guy was not there. However, lots of signs saying if you aren't getting a tattoo, wait out in the lobby, but you can see them from the lobby, but there is nowhere to sit...


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## anonymous42

she said it would be weird if I went to all of the sessions


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## anchorwatch

Look I don't know about you. I can only speak for me. I don't care what they say at the studio about spectators. 

NO MALE IS GOING TO WORK ON MY WIFE LIKE THAT WITHOUT ME OBSERVING. 

It's called the power of gold. If you want my gold you follow my rules, or I go else where.

PS, I'd already be elsewhere.


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## naga75

anonymous42 said:


> she said it would be weird if I went to all of the sessions


um. why?

and like anchorwatch says, im sure there are PUH LENTY of other shops that will let you sit in on the session(s).


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## AWorkInProgress

Why would it be weird for you to attend the sessions?

Your wife is aware of how uncomfortable the text interaction made you feel. She should be taking action to reassure (welcoming you to join the sessions) or perhaps look for a female tattoo artist.


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## CanadianGuy

What the posters are suggesting is that you go along to "watch".

This is known as a "c*ck block" .


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## Machiavelli

anonymous42 said:


> she said it would be weird if I went to all of the sessions


I'm sure she did.


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy
> 
> She has her shirt off the whole time and is going to get her leg done so will have pants off for that. *She says she would not do anything and that he is too young and hot* but he is only 2 years younger than her and she is hot and has lost 12 pounds since this process started. Also, he texted her 2 days later to make sure she was healing up. I feel like he knows he has it in the bag. Do you think he feels that way?


People are different. I get that you are worried she would "do" something. I would not be ok with my wife being naked in a private room with any dude for multiple long sessions period. This is without the texting. This is without the dude being hot and so on.

And I think I am right in assuming they will be examining her whole body for his other work.

But what you describe would not work for me. So I would have insisted she get the tat from a female.

Why did you agree to this?

Anyway, it is not to late for you to tell her you decided this is not what you can accept. Her spending this time nude with this guy. If you cannot be in there with them the whole time then you and her go find another place with a woman doing the work. 

But indeed there is flirting because they both no she is going to be naked and alone with this guy. While she may be all about the tattoo she is really digging the idea of being nude with this guy alone for en extended period of time. There will be much flirting and very likely things that they would not do with you there. In fact, count on it.

Also there will be pictures taken. Right?


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## unbelievable

If I was cool with a tattoo artist spending hours looking at and with his hands on my essentially naked wife, don't believe I'd blow a gasket over a couple flirty text messages. Little like leaving the vault open but screaming when Dillinger glances at the change drawer. If a guy flirting with your wife bugs you, why would you let one decorate her body with pictures?


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## MaritimeGuy

Personally I think if you don't feel you can trust your wife with the tattoo artist you shouldn't be with her. She openly showed you the texts. It deosn't appear she's trying to hide anything. 

I really don't think you have anything to worry about...unless of course your gut is telling you different. You know her and I don't.


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## Entropy3000

unbelievable said:


> If I was cool with a tattoo artist spending hours looking at and with his hands on my essentially naked wife, don't believe I'd blow a gasket over a couple flirty text messages. Little like leaving the vault open but screaming when Dillinger glances at the change drawer. If a guy flirting with your wife bugs you, why would you let one decorate her body with pictures?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

I would trust my wife not to put herself in this situation. I think her just doing this is enough of a NFW.


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## terrence4159

i have had 14 tattoo's done on me (avatar show 3) everytime i had someone in there watching me. and if my wife ever text'd that to someone and then told me basically not to be there i would tell her the D papers will be waiting for you when you get home. 

my opinion THERE IS WAY MORE going on than you know about.


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## unbelievable

I personally wouldn't wish to be married to a woman who'd be comfortable displaying her hooties and bare behind for another man (medical necessity excluded). I wouldn't feel comfortable getting naked and letting Kim down at the massage parlor work me over and I doubt the wife would think highly of it, either. I don't engage in sex talk with other women but I also don't display my genitals or bare butt for them, either. Wouldn't want my naked wife swinging on a pole for money, either. It's not that I'd suspect she might "cheat" on me, it's that some things are supposed to be reserved for only me to say, hear, see, feel, etc. I think that's rather the idea of intimacy. She didn't marry the world. She married me. I realize other folks have other ideas of appropriateness. We wouldn't get along, so I didn't date them and I wouldn't marry them.


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## anonymous42

A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


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## anchorwatch

Sorry, I thought it was evident. 

This man takes it as a invitation.


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## totamm

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


I'll answer your question if you can answer my question. 



anonymous42 said:


> she texted him saying,
> 
> "This is ***** we can do it next Friday or sometime next week."
> 
> Before he replied, she added,
> 
> "I just realized how that sounded. lol"


WTF is the word that is replaced by ***** in that text?

Am I the only one who doesn't get it?


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## Cosmos

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


I see it as a little familiar, but I don't see it as an invitation for sex.

As another poster mentioned, though, what does the blanked out word mean?


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## PBear

I think it's the her name.

And no, I see it as flirting, but not a really serious invitation for sex or a BJ. However, you and your wife seem to be on different pages with regards to your communications with others, and what boundaries are appropriate. This may be a good time to discuss those boundaries. Better late than never!

C


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## Cosmos

PBear said:


> I think it's the her name.
> 
> And no, I see it as flirting, but not a really serious invitation for sex or a BJ. However, you and your wife seem to be on different pages with regards to your communications with others, and what boundaries are appropriate. This may be a good time to discuss those boundaries. Better late than never!


Ahhh... That makes sense!

I agree that the text was flirty, but I'm wondering if the OP's W isn't perhaps viewing the tattoo artist as some women view their hairdressers - male or female - someone they can act a little informally with because of the intimacy of the service being provided? I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, just putting forward a perspective.

If the OP's W is having a back tattoo, it doesn't follow that guy is going to get to see more than the back he's going to be working on...

At the end of the day, though, if the OP is uncomfortable with his W going to this guy, his W should find herself a female tattooist, as others have mentioned.


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## tacoma

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


I'm a man.

I don't see where anyone would get a "sex invitation" from the content of those texts.

Flirty, yeah but notice who was the one flirting first.

I don't think the Tat artist is your problem.
I think the person who instigated the flirting is your problem.

I was in the room when a girlfriend of mine got her tramp stamp, the artist had no problem with it.


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## WorkingOnMe

Leave a deposit in the morning as a little gift for him to discover if he tries anything.

And I would be there. At least for part of it. And if she tried to tell me not to go, that would make being there mandatory.

For the record, I read the text as innocent scheduling by someone who is excited to get her new tattoo. But not wanting you to be there moves it from innocent to deceptive pretty quickly.


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## tacoma

Just go for the first session and see what vibe you get.


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## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> I'm a man.
> 
> I don't see where anyone would get a "sex invitation" from the content of those texts.
> 
> Flirty, yeah but notice who was the one flirting first.
> 
> I don't think the Tat artist is your problem.
> I think the person who instigated the flirting is your problem.
> 
> I was in the room when a girlfriend of mine got her tramp stamp, the artist had no problem with it.


Absolutely dead on.

But I do think the text needs to be taken in context that she knows they will be alone and she will be pretty much nude. How far she intends to go is hard to say, but I think she is not just excited about the tat. I think she is excited about the circumstances with the hot guy.

She should have wanted you to be there.


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## anonymous42

Yes, I agree Entropy, the problem with the whole thing is that it has just been kind of told to me. She is spending 2500 of our 7000 tax check on this tatt, and basically told me she was doing it after the appointment was set up, and now that she also wants 2 more large tattoos from the same artist this year when she isn't even half way done with the first. Why is she so excited about this guy? She has 5 kids and knows she would only be able to **** him, but maybe that is one of her ultimate fantasies, to get tatted up by some hot guy that ****s her brains out. She sure is losing weight fast for the first time in a year and fast. She is looking pretty good and she knows it. Another thing is that she picked this guy without seeing his work, just based on him talking to her?


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## anonymous42

The next session will be her 3rd BTW, and I may go for a little while but there really is nowhere to sit, I've already checked it out. I still want to see the guy with my own eyes and all. The real ****ed up thing to all of this is that I'm as open minded as they come. I'm an anthropology teacher and I know that human sexuality is complex, even for married people. I told her point blank from the day we met that if she needed "outside" experiences then we could work something out as long as there was honesty, but she only ever said that if I ever do anything, take it to the grave, and she will do the same. 
It is just driving me nuts because of the feeling in my gut that there is something sick about the whole thing. Like I said, I don't know, I could be crazy.


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Yes, I agree Entropy, the problem with the whole thing is that it has just been kind of told to me. She is spending 2500 of our 7000 tax check on this tatt, and basically told me she was doing it after the appointment was set up, and now that she also wants 2 more large tattoos from the same artist this year when she isn't even half way done with the first. Why is she so excited about this guy? She has 5 kids and knows she would only be able to **** him, but maybe that is one of her ultimate fantasies, to get tatted up by some hot guy that ****s her brains out. She sure is losing weight fast for the first time in a year and fast. She is looking pretty good and she knows it. Another thing is that she picked this guy without seeing his work, just based on him talking to her?


I assume you are down with the whole tattoo culture. 

I am assuming she has been into this culture for a while.

Now if this is all relatively new then wow ... that matters.

I think you have a myriad of issues.

So all I can tell you is what I would do. I would tell her no. That if she wants a tat that you and her will pick out the artist. That I was not down with her stripping down and spending the time with any man. Hot or otherwise.

So she is going to cover her whole body in tats. And wants this guy to do it. So you basically are validating what I was saying. That in the middle of these sessions they will be examining her body fopr the future. 

So where are these other large tats going?

But anyway, I say you stop this before it gets way out of hand. You may have a chance to save your marriage some real grief. 

The fact she set this up without you gives you the high road to say ... no. Tell her this is unacceptable to you. She is disrepecting you.

Are you really ok with all these tats?

I also know what I would do if she does it anyway.


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## AWorkInProgress

So you agreed to an 'open' marriage early on yet have concerns with the flirty text?

There's a whole lot of amiguous boundaries within your relationship


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> The next session will be her 3rd BTW, and I may go for a little while but there really is nowhere to sit, I've already checked it out. I still want to see the guy with my own eyes and all. The real ****ed up thing to all of this is that I'm as open minded as they come. I'm an anthropology teacher and I know that human sexuality is complex, even for married people. I told her point blank from the day we met that if she needed "outside" experiences then we could work something out as long as there was honesty, but she only ever said that if I ever do anything, take it to the grave, and she will do the same.
> It is just driving me nuts because of the feeling in my gut that there is something sick about the whole thing. Like I said, I don't know, I could be crazy.


Ok so she is already stripping down for this guy. Nice.

But you did let her know she could have an open marriage so you need to realize she feels she can push the envelope.

She picked this guy without seeing his work. Ok ... you have your answer. But you gave her the green light. So there you go.


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## anonymous42

Yes, he has already seen her. Yes, there are ambiguities and shades of grey and splashes of color and bits of spice in our relationship and promises to each other. I personally don't like promises and prefer openness to fakeness, so yes, I would agree to an open marriage by far if my wife felt the same, but she never agreed to it, so that means she can't have her cake and eat it too now. If she can, then I can. And right now, with all of the kiddos and working so much it really isn't even legitimate because we barely have time alone together. I just looked through my cell phone since December, and she had not sent me a single flirty text, but she sends this guy one on the first one...I guess I need to let it go and get a hobby


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## anonymous42

why does everyone think so black and white. People have brains and can have unique agreements based on personal preferences. I have always told her I want to know, but I know she will never tell, so I guess there in lies my anxiety. In the end it is just sex, and she can't get pregnant, and he won't fall in love, but damn, she don't even **** me that much and she has started to more lately, but for over a year it was like once a month...


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> why does everyone think so black and white. People have brains and can have unique agreements based on personal preferences. I have always told her I want to know, but I know she will never tell, so I guess there in lies my anxiety. In the end it is just sex, and she can't get pregnant, and he won't fall in love, but damn, she don't even **** me that much and she has started to more lately, but for over a year it was like once a month...


I think in all sorts of gray. 

You gave her the green light to "play". She has not told you that she wants to screw him yet. She is playing with him. See shades of gray. She is going to expose herself. Exhibitionism. 

But you see you just made a black and white statement. You said it is just sex.

Forgive me but this has taken a hot wifing turn. You are living vicariously now through your wife's sexual adventures. Or at least you struggle with it. The fact you let this go forward though is very murky.


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Yes, he has already seen her. Yes, there are ambiguities and shades of grey and splashes of color and bits of spice in our relationship and promises to each other. I personally don't like promises and prefer openness to fakeness, so yes, I would agree to an open marriage by far if my wife felt the same, but she never agreed to it, so that means she can't have her cake and eat it too now. If she can, then I can. And right now, with all of the kiddos and working so much it really isn't even legitimate because we barely have time alone together. I just looked through my cell phone since December, and she had not sent me a single flirty text, but she sends this guy one on the first one...I guess I need to let it go and get a hobby


Then I would not be pleased if I were you.


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## anonymous42

I see what you mean Entropy and I am struggling with that. It's one of those I've tried to change things, and now I'm not quite sure about how I've treated her in the past, or how I've handled things. I want us to have intimacy first, and if something grows out of that then fine, but we have been struggling for that ourselves, and things were just getting better, and she just kind of springs this on me, and then I find the texts, which weren't the worst thing ever, and she did not try to hide, so I am being kind of ambiguous and need to just let it go, but it is hard because she rarely makes me feel like a priority, sexually or otherwise...


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## anonymous42

We work opposite shifts and have for 2 years and the other year I was away in grad school. We rarely are alone and she still turns me down or falls asleep sometimes...Over the past two years, (with a baby being born mind you, we averaged maybe 3 times a month) When we first got engaged, she would be sexual as much as I wanted, but one night she said no, and then steadily started regulating the output of sex ever since.


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## anonymous42

But I must admit that I have always wanted my wife so bad, that even when we first got together and things were great, my active imagination let me fantasize about her being naughty. When she started withholding, it fueled these fantasies more, and I think the monstor I am now has kind of grown out of that.


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## jfv

Women are not attracted to men they don't respect. How can she possibly respect you when you are so conflict avoidant??


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## jfv

Her tatoos are not for you. They will work as signal to a certain type of guy that she is available to him. This is deliberate. You are validating that you are anything but this type of guy by not taking control of this situation and voicing your opposition.


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## anonymous42

JFV,
I'm sure that plays into it a lot, and that is something I am trying to change, which is why I told her I had a problem with the text in the first place. She is aggressive and I am passive, overall dynamic, but things can change if I do is what I believe, and I sort of think it starts with me letting her know that I want to be with her and not share with the tattoo artist...


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## anonymous42

I think she was taken aback by my jealousy, and I think she liked it even though she said it was unattractive...I don't know. I'm just trying to turn over another leaf because I'm running out of cards here.


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## jfv

The **** BLOCKER card is the best one to play in this situation. Don't worry about what she says about your 'jealousy'. (she's gonna also call you controlling at some point) This is not about her. This is about you being the man you need to be for yourself. Either she gets with the program or she loses you.


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## Cosmos

anonymous42 said:


> I think she was taken aback by my jealousy, and I think she liked it even though she said it was unattractive...I don't know. I'm just trying to turn over another leaf because I'm running out of cards here.


The main card that you hold, OP, is that you are her husband and you are uncomfortable with the whole situation regarding the tattooist and the flirty nature of the text messaging. If a spouse is uncomfortable with something like that, it's up to the other spouse to do something about.

You either accompany your W to the scheduled tattoo session, or she finds herself a female one. Period.


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## that_girl

:iagree::iagree:



PBear said:


> Honestly, I think the texting was perhaps a little flirtatious, but you're over-reacting.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aunt Ava

anonymous42 said:


> I told her point blank from the day we met that if she needed "outside" experiences then we could work something out as long as there was honesty, but she only ever said that if I ever do anything, take it to the grave, and she will do the same.




Just some thoughts....

So from the get go you had very different expectations. You wanted honesty, she preferred secrecy. Hmmm.

She decided- without consulting you to spend $2500? Really? You guys must be loaded if that didn't warrant a conversation.

For the past two years you have worked opposite shifts? How much time do you spend together? Alone? Aahh, not much. Uh oh.

She's about 28? So around her sexual peak, but you're not reaping the benefits?

She doesn't want you there when she goes and gets half nekkid in front of the hottie? Uh oh.

She wants to commit to having him do additional work, so more time she can spend with him half nekkid? Uh oh.

How did she find this guy if she's not familiar with his work? Did a friend recommend him? That's a big commitment and expense to risk on an unknown quantity. 

Yes, her text was very flirty. I would say definitely inappropriate for a married woman; but apparently, her boundaries are very different from mine. 

You really need to accompany her to these appointments. I suggest taking a lawn chair. 

Acting like a doormat is not going to help your marriage. I see quite a few red flags in your posts. I recommend reading some of the other threads so you can learn to recognize them.


----------



## unbelievable

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


I'd say about the same message a man gets when a married woman disrobes in front of him and consents to having his hands all over her body for no essential purpose. I'd get the idea that though she might be in a marriage, she wasn't in so deep that she couldn't be extricated.


----------



## unbelievable

You told your wife you'd prefer an open marriage and you didn't like promises? Whatever she's doing, you really have no right to object. You set the bar and it aint all that high.


----------



## sinnister

anonymous42 said:


> The next session will be her 3rd BTW, and I may go for a little while but there really is nowhere to sit, I've already checked it out. I still want to see the guy with my own eyes and all. The real ****ed up thing to all of this is that I'm as open minded as they come. I'm an anthropology teacher and I know that human sexuality is complex, even for married people. * I told her point blank from the day we met that if she needed "outside" experiences then we could work something out as long as there was honesty, *but she only ever said that if I ever do anything, take it to the grave, and she will do the same.
> It is just driving me nuts because of the feeling in my gut that there is something sick about the whole thing. Like I said, I don't know, I could be crazy.


Well then my friend...you lose.


----------



## sinnister

anonymous42 said:


> why does everyone think so black and white. People have brains and can have unique agreements based on personal preferences. I have always told her I want to know, but I know she will never tell, so I guess there in lies my anxiety. In the end it is just sex, and she can't get pregnant, and he won't fall in love, but damn, she don't even **** me that much and she has started to more lately, but for over a year it was like once a month...


You need to start reading more threads around here. Particularly coping with infidelity. I can't tell you how many stories I've read of "progressive men" with similar attituteds coming to these forums in absolute shambles. It doesn't matter if she didnt take the bait. You opened the door. Even if nothing is going on she sure is making it look like she would like there to be. And that upsets you or you wouldn't be here. So be honest with yourself and your own feelings. You can't handle an open marriage.


----------



## chillymorn

yuck she will always remember the dude who gave her the tatoo because he is also most likley banging her also.

yuck put your foot down. and make sure you go with her if she balks then my advice would be to move on while your still young.


----------



## Chaparral

sinnister said:


> You need to start reading more threads around here. Particularly coping with infidelity. I can't tell you how many stories I've read of "progressive men" with similar attituteds coming to these forums in absolute shambles. It doesn't matter if she didnt take the bait. You opened the door. Even if nothing is going on she sure is making it look like she would like there to be. And that upsets you or you wouldn't be here. So be honest with yourself and your own feelings. You can't handle an open marriage.


How many stories here start out like this?

To see what is going on with your wife, download MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER.

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

She did not pick the dude because she liked his tats but because he was hot. Who recommended him?

She "accidently" offered herself to him, then made sure he got the hint.

She rubbed your nose in it. Then she watches you waffle.

You ask ( not tell her you are) if you can go with her. No way Jose, that aint gonna happen.

She's aggressive, you are meek. Get it? Tattoo boy ain't meek.


----------



## anchorwatch

Time to get back on course, Professor!

Get to the book store. Here's the syllabus:

Start with brother member Athol's book

Married Man Sex Life

Take the quiz. 

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Read the book
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


Opposite shifts? meh! At least 15 hours a week together

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage: Willard F. Jr. Harley


----------



## anchorwatch

chapparal said:


> How many stories here start out like this?
> 
> To see what is going on with your wife, download MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER.
> 
> The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> She did not pick the dude because she liked his tats but because he was hot. Who recommended him?
> 
> She "accidently" offered herself to him, then made sure he got the hint.
> 
> She rubbed your nose in it. Then she watches you waffle.
> 
> You ask ( not tell her you are) if you can go with her. No way Jose, that aint gonna happen.
> 
> She's aggressive, you are meek. Get it? Tattoo boy ain't meek.


Like minds Chappie, lol 


Professor, read Deejo's sticky thread too.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I must say, I would flirt like that with my boyfriend but not someone performing a job for me. 

And I would absolutely invite my boyfriend along on the appointment if I were to get a tattoo.


----------



## joshbjoshb

sinnister said:


> Well then my friend...you lose.


Heck I agree with you. You are messed up, mister professor, and I am sorry for our nation if you are a teacher. Now that you are eating the food you have cooked, all of a sudden this all idea of open marriage isn't appealing to you anymore. I hope you go and apologize to all of the student you have taught all this non-sense.


----------



## anonymous42

joshbjoshb and sinnister

I have never taught students to be in open marriages? I teach Cultural Anthropology, so sure, we discuss sex, gender, marriage, the entire spectrum. Open American marriages are unlike polygamous unions in other cultures, because the focus is not actually on sex but productivity and re productivity in those cultures. (generalizing) I also teach Algebra and Calculus, and trust me, we don't talk about swinging in there. The idea that open relationships is an absolute fail every time is simply not true, but statistics would show that it usually fails in the first world because of different values, schedules, focus on sex, etc. Most monogamous relationships fail now too. 
I don't disagree one bit that opening the door can be a disaster, however, I have never been in a long term monogamous relationship where cheating was not suspected or did not happen either. And from my perspective, it was not always because things were bad, the first time, my first girlfriend, she just wanted a new experience. So you know, that probably hurt me in a way and also made me say I would rather have realistic expectations than be hurt this way again, well, lets be more open, was my idea. 

True, it has never really worked with anyone, but I also do not think if I did not try to be more open with my wife, she would act any different. If she was always a cheater, she may feel more able to get away with it with me, but she would cheat just the same if I told her it would kill me and end our marriage or I said I want to sit in the closet and jerk off while she does it. (I've never done that.) 

Anchorwatch & Chapparall

I agree that tattoo guys offer a mystique which my math teaching ass certainly does not. And she is attracted to them because of their perceived aggression versus my laid back style. It could be the case she prefers my style in friendship and family, but not in her fantasies. When we actually have sex, it is great by the way. I really don't believe anyone could "do it better" with her, and I don't even think she believes that they could really, but I can't offer the mental side of being this "ideal." (I guess we should play dress up.) I may have been acting meek for a long time, but I am capable of changing, which is why I am confronting her about this in the first place. I just wanted some thoughts before we have our next talk about it. I appreciate all the feed back. 

Unbelievable:

I realize that is part of the issue, and my kids are priority number one. I don't have the right to leave my children because my wife has not broken any promises. I never made her make any!

Aunt Ava,

I think you saw the same red flags that I did and you really have a balanced approach that I like and prove that I am not overreacting if you can see some of the same flags. I agree, need to man up and be more direct and all that **** and see what goes down.


----------



## MrK

anonymous42 said:


> ...she also wants 2 more large tattoos from the same artist this year when she isn't even half way done with the first. Why is she so excited about this guy?





anonymous42 said:


> I just looked through my cell phone since December, and she had not sent me a single flirty text, but she sends this guy one on the first one.





anonymous42 said:


> she rarely makes me feel like a priority, sexually or otherwise...





anonymous42 said:


> When we first got engaged, she would be sexual as much as I wanted, but one night she said no, and then steadily started regulating the output of sex ever since.





anonymous42 said:


> She sure is losing weight fast for the first time in a year and fast. She is looking pretty good and she knows it. Another thing is that she picked this guy without seeing his work, just based on him talking to her?


I am also curious as to how she met him. But only curious. This isn't going to turn out well regardless.


----------



## anonymous42

JFV

That's what I am screaming. More than anything, I just want to block this one particular guy's ****. And I think he knows he has the green light. Should I confront him you think?


----------



## anonymous42

MrK

Turn out? It has been the same the whole time, now I just have a name to put my suspicion into. Basically, when she started regulating sex, I started suspecting. She says he was just at the shop when she went in. I want to know more about that too.


----------



## PBear

anonymous42 said:


> JFV
> 
> That's what I am screaming. More than anything, I just want to block this one particular guy's ****. And I think he knows he has the green light. Should I confront him you think?


Your problem is with your wife and her lack of boundaries. Get rid of this guy, and if she doesn't understand the boundaries that you're comfortable with, you'll be right back in the same boat when the next guy comes sniffing around. You need to get her on the same page as you.

C


----------



## sinnister

joshbjoshb said:


> Heck I agree with you. You are messed up, mister professor, and I am sorry for our nation if you are a teacher. Now that you are eating the food you have cooked, all of a sudden this all idea of open marriage isn't appealing to you anymore. I hope you go and apologize to all of the student you have taught all this non-sense.


Whoa...I wasn't going that far!

Probably not a good idea to attack the man's professional objectivity. Let's just stick to the fact that personally it was probably a bad idea to open that door.


----------



## anchorwatch

anonymous42 said:


> JFV
> 
> That's what I am screaming. More than anything, I just want to block this one particular guy's ****. And I think he knows he has the green light. Should I confront him you think?


Your presence in the room with them will convey an enormous amount alpha possession to him (c0ck blocking) and even better, to her too.

That wolud work... no need for agresive confrontation, he'll get the idea with your presence and convoys.


----------



## tom67

anchorwatch said:


> Your presence in the room with them will convey an enormous amount alpha possession to him (c0ck blocking) and even better, to her too.


Yep just knowing you are in the waiting room will be effective in sending a message.


----------



## anonymous42

Sinister,

Thanks for the backup! I was about to say...

PBear,

Setting clear boundaries do not help a cheater stop, it only gives them a map of how to proceed. Maybe...
Anyhow, I agree it is all about her and I, and I need to work with her. I want to dig out the root, but this problem is really acute and I would not mind ending it


----------



## joshbjoshb

sinnister said:


> Whoa...I wasn't going that far!
> 
> Probably not a good idea to attack the man's professional objectivity. Let's just stick to the fact that personally it was probably a bad idea to open that door.


Yes, if the honorable professor would have not be teaching our youth, I would respect his choices as much as I disagree with them. But when he is teaching a certain idea, and cannot live by it or prove that it can work for him, than, for all I know, he is corrupting their brain with ideas that would ruin their lives forever.

So here my suggestion to you:

Go tell her you have no problem with the tattoo guy being intimate with her, as long as she will tell you afterwards.

Stop being jealous.

Suggest her she is finding more people to be intimate with, as long as she tell you.

Come back and report to us how it went.

If it all goes well, continue to teach what you did till now. If not, go apologize to all of the young, innocent people you have lectured.

Oh, I almost forgot that all of this was triggered by a simple text message. Not anything, just a simple text message and mr. open marriage is going nuts.

So perhaps your all theory makes no sense?


----------



## joshbjoshb

P.S. I am sorry for being harsh here. Seeing someone that is teaching ideas to young folks about facts of life, when he - or she - are not ready to stand by it, drives me crazy.

Okay, back to work.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

If it's causing you this much distress you should call the whole thing off (the tatoo I mean). 

I don't believe supervising her on this occasion is the answer. Yes it will stop anything from happening...this time. Are you prepared to follow her everytime you're uncomfortable with the person she's meeting up with? Eventually she would stop telling you.

I think, as someone else suggested, you and her need to be on the same page. Even if she's not intending to cheat, the fact this is upsetting you so much, she should be prepared to call it off. I don't think in a relationship a person should set out to do something they know hurts their partner.


----------



## anonymous42

So she left her phone at home again last night, and I did not find any new text or calls from him since Monday (which is the night I first mentioned I was uncomfortable with him of course)

Here is how the text messages ended, nothing after her their flirtatious exchange Friday until Sunday when he actually texts her first

Him: How you healing up?

Her: Lots of peeling...blah blah blah

Him: Good deal  You gonna be ready for Friday??

Her: Well I'm not worried about sitting, but honestly I wasn't sure if I was going to have to wait another week so we can pay some bills. My husband was like "you're spending how much??!!"

Him: Ok. that's understandable, just let me know 

Her: Although I'm sure it leaves you very little to look forward to if I don't come in every week

Him: Lol, ikr!? Not very many pieces can stand up to yours through the week for sure...Very fun piece

Then the next day she texts him on her way to evening class.

Her: I'm not gonna be able to come on Friday. Maybe next week?

(is come another sexual inuendo?)

Him: How late can you stay???

She texts him again on her way home from class

Her: We don't have any clinic next week, so if it's on Monday or Wednesday I can stay all night. Friday I have to work at 10:30.

(stay all night????)

Her: Although I don't get paid til Thurs, so it's kind of silly but I think it's the principal of the matter, you know?

Him: Ok, I'll text u in a bit and see what's goin on...I'm in the middle of a piece at the moment )

This is the last text on her phone and the time was right before she walked in the door and I told her the situation was making me jealous. (She did not yet know I had looked through her cell.)

I find it strange that he did not text her back if he said he was going to. I went to sleep hours before she did that night. Do you think she deleted them? (I don't pay phone bill btw)


----------



## anonymous42

JoshB,

I have never taught a lecture on the importance of swinging or presented myself that way to students????? I am talking about my personal life and some of its complexities. I just get the sense that you hate anthropology because of evolution, and that is okay, a lot of people do, but it will never be good science.


----------



## tom67

Whoa! Stay all night? Come on dude nip this now jeez!


----------



## MaritimeGuy

It would appear he either found some other way to finish up the conversation or she deleted the texts. 

I really think you need to have a heart to heart and feel her out on this. Ultimately, if you're not comfortable, she should call it off. Certainly a tatoo is not worth putting your marriage at risk.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> I see what you mean Entropy and I am struggling with that. It's one of those I've tried to change things, and now I'm not quite sure about how I've treated her in the past, or how I've handled things. I want us to have intimacy first, and if something grows out of that then fine, but we have been struggling for that ourselves, and things were just getting better, and she just kind of springs this on me, and then I find the texts, which weren't the worst thing ever, and she did not try to hide, so I am being kind of ambiguous and need to just let it go, but it is hard because she rarely makes me feel like a priority, sexually or otherwise...


We would call this a related rates problem. She is pushing the envelope in some areas in the opposite direction for intimacy with you.

We always come back to boundaries. I suggest that you and her do His Needs Her Needs and define what each of you feels the boudnaries are for your marriage going forward. This will promote intimacy. You may also benefit from Married Man Sex Life as well. If she is seeking out hot guys especially.


----------



## anonymous42

I am a physical needs person, she is a do things for me person. I ultimately want her to be way more intimate with me than she seems comfortable being. What is His Needs Her Needs? I need to check out that book I believe.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> *We work opposite shifts and have for 2 years and the other year I was away in grad school.* We rarely are alone and she still turns me down or falls asleep sometimes...Over the past two years, (with a baby being born mind you, we averaged maybe 3 times a month) When we first got engaged, she would be sexual as much as I wanted, but one night she said no, and then steadily started regulating the output of sex ever since.


Ok this in itself has prevented intimacy AND has put you both in a vulnerable state for outside stimulation ... especially from predators.

It is brain chemicals. 

Her Oxytcin levels are not being fed by you because frankly you are not with her. Add to the kids and really and truly while you are married in some ways you are not in others. You share a home and children and very occasionally have sex.

So she is getting more attention from this guy than she gets for you. No wonder she wants to strip down for him. He has made more ground in his time with her than you have accumulated in yeasr just with the Oxytocin. He is effectiveky makjing love to your wife in those sessions. He is caressing her body and stroking her ego. He is giving her his attention and telling her how beauiful she is. He is bonding with her.

He is also pegging the scale on the Dopamine levels. She is naked for him and he is focused on her. Again he is making love to her whether there is genital contavt or not. But indeed she is trusting this man with her body.

She has provided more intimacy to him than you.

I am not trying to mess woith you but you know in your heart this is true.

The opposite shifts have to stop. 

I think you allowing this to go forward has dug a huge hole. Putting the genie back in the bottle may not even be possible but that said every day that foes by it is getting worse. Whether she screws this guy or not is not even the issue right now. Boundaries on not just PIV sex.


I give my wife full body massages regulary. This does not always lead to sex at the time. But it is all foreplay. It is making love to the woman. It i showing her attention. It shows her you think she is beautiful and desireable. Just an example. You must date your wife. You must spend quality time with your wife. This is not measured in number of times you have sex. You have to connect with her. It is about intimacy. This is not for other men to provide her. It is not good to allow her to get that from other men.


----------



## Dollystanford

a) tattooing someone is an intimate act, particularly such a large and involved piece

b) entire back piece? that's going to look nice in 20 years


----------



## anonymous42

Dollystanford:

That's why I don't get tattoos, but to each their own. 

Entropy,

You are right on the head. That is what is killing me. Whether he ****s her or not, he is "chemically" ****ing her as you put it, making her feel better than I probably have since we first got together or maybe ever, who knows! The sad part is that she has been more intimate and available and sexual with me lately. It seems like she really has been trying. Should I just base it all on that? If the two of them are going to do something and not tell me is it worth my energy to keep posting about it?


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy:

I have been against opposite shifts from day one. I don't think many people find it comforting for their spouses to work 3rd shift, but she nurses 3rds and has been the entire time. Which means the moment I get off work, I am in charge of the house alone. We have a large family and any reduction in income would seem tough and she won't switch because of that and she still goes to school during the day. It really does kill it and I know this. I have told her this all along.


----------



## MrK

anonymous42 said:


> The sad part is that she has been more intimate and available and sexual with me lately.


Something must be getting her horny. We'll see what the experts say...


----------



## anonymous42

MrK:

Yes, I wonder if I'm warming her up for someone else! 

Did anyone else reread the second part of the texting? Do you think they kept talking??


----------



## NewM

How much does she earn compared to you and how much does she spend compared to you?I am guessing you earn more but she spends a lot more.

Are you so open minded to be cuckold who will give her money that she gives to other guys who not only get her money but also get to fvck her,which you aren't allowed to?


----------



## NewM

Can you follow her without her knowing?Check out how long tattoo takes to do and how long is she in there.If she is half an hour/1hr more then its supposed to be she fvcked him.

You can install spy software on her phone and if she brings it with her then listen what are they talking about while they are there.One member here had spy on his wifes phone and caught her through phone mic while she was fvcking OM.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> But I must admit that I have always wanted my wife so bad, that even when we first got together and things were great, my active imagination let me fantasize about her being naughty. When she started withholding, it fueled these fantasies more, and I think the monstor I am now has kind of grown out of that.


Right. We can see this in your posts. 

I personally want to be the guy my wife is naughty with.

1) My wifes exclusive lover

2) My wifes best male freind

3) Her husband and father of her children.

These are my priorities. Yes thet meld into one but what I am saying is I must have #1 and will not settle for just #2 and / or #3.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> I think she was taken aback by my jealousy, and I think she liked it even though she said it was unattractive...I don't know. I'm just trying to turn over another leaf because I'm running out of cards here.


Jealosy is an emotion. It is not good or bad on its own. In your case you have reason to be kealous.

Realize this is a double edged sword. 

A man who is not assertive to protect his wife from other men can be seen as naive, lazy, weak or ambivalent. A hsuband who will not make a stand shows he does not value the woman so much. Hence the ambivalence. She is drawn to the bold exciting guy.

She may fight and call you jealous, insecure and controlling but the thing is you should be jealous. You should feel insecure and you very must need to take action. You cannot control people but you can conrtol yourself and assert your boundaries. Indeed her boundaries are dubious right now.


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

I personally want to be that guy too. The fantasies serve to distract me when that is not happening. They are hot to me because she is purely sexual in them, but it is just fantasy! If she laid down with me each night I am sure I would not have them so much...and my wrist would not be so sore...


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

That is kind of what I was thinking, but I have already brought this up twice and have no more hard evidence other than what I've already presented and I don't want to spy on her more than I have already. I guess if I am still not happy I need to keep bringing it up, more assertively right??


----------



## Entropy3000

Aunt Ava said:


> Just some thoughts....
> 
> So from the get go you had very different expectations. You wanted honesty, she preferred secrecy. Hmmm.
> 
> She decided- without consulting you to spend $2500? Really? You guys must be loaded if that didn't warrant a conversation.
> 
> For the past two years you have worked opposite shifts? How much time do you spend together? Alone? Aahh, not much. Uh oh.
> 
> She's about 28? So around her sexual peak, but you're not reaping the benefits?
> 
> She doesn't want you there when she goes and gets half nekkid in front of the hottie? Uh oh.
> 
> She wants to commit to having him do additional work, so more time she can spend with him half nekkid? Uh oh.
> 
> How did she find this guy if she's not familiar with his work? Did a friend recommend him? That's a big commitment and expense to risk on an unknown quantity.
> 
> Yes, her text was very flirty. I would say definitely inappropriate for a married woman; but apparently, her boundaries are very different from mine.
> 
> You really need to accompany her to these appointments. I suggest taking a lawn chair.
> 
> Acting like a doormat is not going to help your marriage. I see quite a few red flags in your posts. I recommend reading some of the other threads so you can learn to recognize them.


:smthumbup:


----------



## NewM

anonymous42 said:


> I don't want to spy on her more than I have already.


Then she is golden to do it since you will not know about it and she won't tell you.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> joshbjoshb and sinnister
> 
> I have never taught students to be in open marriages? I teach Cultural Anthropology, so sure, we discuss sex, gender, marriage, the entire spectrum. Open American marriages are unlike polygamous unions in other cultures, because the focus is not actually on sex but productivity and re productivity in those cultures. (generalizing) I also teach Algebra and Calculus, and trust me, we don't talk about swinging in there. The idea that open relationships is an absolute fail every time is simply not true, but statistics would show that it usually fails in the first world because of different values, schedules, focus on sex, etc. Most monogamous relationships fail now too.
> I don't disagree one bit that opening the door can be a disaster, however, I have never been in a long term monogamous relationship where cheating was not suspected or did not happen either. And from my perspective, it was not always because things were bad, the first time, my first girlfriend, she just wanted a new experience. So you know, that probably hurt me in a way and also made me say I would rather have realistic expectations than be hurt this way again, well, lets be more open, was my idea.
> 
> True, it has never really worked with anyone, but I also do not think if I did not try to be more open with my wife, she would act any different. If she was always a cheater, she may feel more able to get away with it with me, but she would cheat just the same if I told her it would kill me and end our marriage or I said I want to sit in the closet and jerk off while she does it. (I've never done that.)
> 
> Anchorwatch & Chapparall
> 
> I agree that tattoo guys offer a mystique which my math teaching ass certainly does not. And she is attracted to them because of their perceived aggression versus my laid back style. It could be the case she prefers my style in friendship and family, but not in her fantasies. When we actually have sex, it is great by the way. I really don't believe anyone could "do it better" with her, and I don't even think she believes that they could really, but I can't offer the mental side of being this "ideal." (I guess we should play dress up.) I may have been acting meek for a long time, but I am capable of changing, which is why I am confronting her about this in the first place. I just wanted some thoughts before we have our next talk about it. I appreciate all the feed back.
> 
> Unbelievable:
> 
> I realize that is part of the issue, and my kids are priority number one. I don't have the right to leave my children because my wife has not broken any promises. I never made her make any!
> 
> Aunt Ava,
> 
> I think you saw the same red flags that I did and you really have a balanced approach that I like and prove that I am not overreacting if you can see some of the same flags. I agree, need to man up and be more direct and all that **** and see what goes down.


Dude. Now is not the time to extol the virtues of open marriages. Not from where you are right now. Focus.


----------



## anonymous42

NewM,

No my mind is not that open. I made more last year, but that could easily change. We both work lots of overtime, especially me. She thinks that I spend too much, because I spend on consumables: food, entertainment, vacation, drink, smoke, etc. She spends on the kids, food, or material things. She spends more I would say by a fair margin, but she does not see her spending as selfish, but mine is?


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> JFV
> 
> That's what I am screaming. More than anything, I just want to block this one particular guy's ****. And I think he knows he has the green light. Should I confront him you think?


No. You should have not gone down this road. You should have confronted your wife. Your wife chose this guy.

Contacting him now is begging for him to not bang your wife. That will only embolden her to do more with him to show you that you do not own her. It will embolden him because you will prove to be weak and it also encourages him that he can take this woman.

You should fire him. But you will have to let him keep the money now. You are paying him not only for the art but to for his attention to your wife. Just top it cold turkey. 

You messed up. Sorry. I would not be in your shoes however if I woke up out of a coma and was there I would stop the sessions. Much much harder than have preventing them of course. But money is not important to me. My wife is.


----------



## Entropy3000

tom67 said:


> Yep just knowing you are in the waiting room will be effective in sending a message.


I disagree. The waiting room is weak. Even exciting for them. He would need to be there.


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

You are exactly right and I am trying to steer things that way, but I just wanted everyone to have as much of the story as possible about who I am. And by the way, personality-wise, I am super laid back, but also very competitive. I grew up on sports, especially basketball, and put me in a mix of guys, I'm not going to back down. I'm just laid back. Nothing wrong with it. She on the other hand, is very high strung and domineering. I was hoping when I married her we would absorb each other's qualities more. (She really needs to learn how to relax. Would not hurt me to be more outgoing. etc.) However, I think with the added pressures of family and working opposite shifts, we have accentuated our differences instead. And it simply does not work. Bossy women don't turn me on, and wimpy men don't turn her on. How do I change that and not change the cool parts about being laid back?


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Sinister,
> 
> Thanks for the backup! I was about to say...
> 
> PBear,
> 
> Setting clear boundaries do not help a cheater stop, it only gives them a map of how to proceed. Maybe...
> Anyhow, I agree it is all about her and I, and I need to work with her. I want to dig out the root, but this problem is really acute and I would not mind ending it


For a cultrual anthropologist you are sure missing the fundamentals.

If you think your wife clearly is going to cheat then send her on her way.

However, what is happening is that you are enabling another man to seduce your wife. A completely different thing.


----------



## NewM

anonymous42 said:


> NewM,
> 
> No my mind is not that open. I made more last year, but that could easily change. We both work lots of overtime, especially me. She thinks that I spend too much, because I spend on consumables: food, entertainment, vacation, drink, smoke, etc. She spends on the kids, food, or material things. She spends more I would say by a fair margin, but she does not see her spending as selfish, but mine is?


You have to make it so that you 2 have specific budget on necessary stuff like food,bills etc.. and then what is left after that,split it up in 2 so you have equal allowances to spend on yourselves.

I would strongly suggest that you install spy program on her phone and listen to what are they talking and doing during and specifically after tattoo piece is done.If there is nothing going on at least you will not be worrying anymore and if there is you know whats up.

What if she is fvcking this tattoo guy,my vibe from you is that you will not do anything about it and probably even let her go do more tattoos with him if she "promises" that she won't do anything like that again.If she gets the same vibe then she is probably fvcking him or someone else or is planing to knowing that you will just get over it.


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

It is an open lobby and you can see the chairs. Can't go back there for sterility issues I believe, but I would be able to see his face. Do you think it is a good idea to go with her and let the guy finish it? If I force her to switch artists, she will still bang this guy, probably harder, if that is her intention. If was not her intention, she will hate me for it.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> So she left her phone at home again last night, and I did not find any new text or calls from him since Monday (which is the night I first mentioned I was uncomfortable with him of course)
> 
> Here is how the text messages ended, nothing after her their flirtatious exchange Friday until Sunday when he actually texts her first
> 
> Him: How you healing up?
> 
> Her: Lots of peeling...blah blah blah
> 
> Him: Good deal  You gonna be ready for Friday??
> 
> Her: Well I'm not worried about sitting, but honestly I wasn't sure if I was going to have to wait another week so we can pay some bills. My husband was like "you're spending how much??!!"
> 
> Him: Ok. that's understandable, just let me know
> 
> Her: Although I'm sure it leaves you very little to look forward to if I don't come in every week
> 
> Him: Lol, ikr!? Not very many pieces can stand up to yours through the week for sure...Very fun piece
> 
> Then the next day she texts him on her way to evening class.
> 
> Her: I'm not gonna be able to come on Friday. Maybe next week?
> 
> (is come another sexual inuendo?)
> 
> Him: How late can you stay???
> 
> She texts him again on her way home from class
> 
> Her: We don't have any clinic next week, so if it's on Monday or Wednesday I can stay all night. Friday I have to work at 10:30.
> 
> (stay all night????)
> 
> Her: Although I don't get paid til Thurs, so it's kind of silly but I think it's the principal of the matter, you know?
> 
> Him: Ok, I'll text u in a bit and see what's goin on...I'm in the middle of a piece at the moment )
> 
> This is the last text on her phone and the time was right before she walked in the door and I told her the situation was making me jealous. (She did not yet know I had looked through her cell.)
> 
> I find it strange that he did not text her back if he said he was going to. I went to sleep hours before she did that night. Do you think she deleted them? (I don't pay phone bill btw)


Thanks for sharing but indeed you are just tormenting yourself now. Some part of you is getting off on this I suspect. 

But yeah she is available all night. Yeah that would be good.


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

Sorry, made that statement about boundaries half in jest. I don't disagree with you, it is extremely important and what trust is all about! 

NewM,

I would move out


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> I am a physical needs person, she is a do things for me person. I ultimately want her to be way more intimate with me than she seems comfortable being. What is His Needs Her Needs? I need to check out that book I believe.


Yes. You need to. You will find it very conservative however, it is about intimacy and has includes the discussing and setting of agreed upon boundaries.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy:
> 
> I have been against opposite shifts from day one. I don't think many people find it comforting for their spouses to work 3rd shift, but she nurses 3rds and has been the entire time. Which means the moment I get off work, I am in charge of the house alone. We have a large family and any reduction in income would seem tough and she won't switch because of that and she still goes to school during the day. It really does kill it and I know this. I have told her this all along.


These are choices. If the marriage is number one priority then the rest does not matter. She can change the situation. Maybe you have to move.

Choices define who we really are and what are priorities are.


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

I know about the self torture. I am a master martyr personality, so some part of me does like it maybe, but this time the empty feeling in the stomach is winning out.


----------



## anchorwatch

Entropy3000 said:


> We would call this a related rates problem. She is pushing the envelope in some areas in the opposite direction for intimacy with you.
> 
> We always come back to boundaries. I suggest that you and her do His Needs Her Needs and define what each of you feels the boudnaries are for your marriage going forward. This will promote intimacy. You may also benefit from Married Man Sex Life as well. If she is seeking out hot guys especially.


:iagree: with E3..........do the reads!!!


----------



## NewM

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy,
> 
> Sorry, made that statement about boundaries half in jest. I don't disagree with you, it is extremely important and what trust is all about!
> 
> NewM,
> 
> I would move out


You should repeat it to her strongly that you will dump her,you being laid back and the way you were talking here probably gives her vibe that she can get away with it.

Here is thread made by member who caught his wife with spy software and hear her fvck OM.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67661-become-spy-catching-them-technology.html
I think it is best way to do it this way as she won't be suspecting it and if you are there in lobby she will know not to do anything.You can also see her texts that way.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> MrK:
> 
> Yes, I wonder if I'm warming her up for someone else!
> 
> Did anyone else reread the second part of the texting? Do you think they kept talking??


Either way this is true. She is getting very excited being with this guy. At some point if this progresses to full on cheating the sex with you will most likely stop.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy,
> 
> That is kind of what I was thinking, but I have already brought this up twice and have no more hard evidence other than what I've already presented and I don't want to spy on her more than I have already. I guess if I am still not happy I need to keep bringing it up, more assertively right??


I am not a spy guy. I am about taking assertive action. There is nothing about what your wife is doing that would be ok with me. I would have insisted on a female artist. What is wrong with a female artist?

Stop the talking. Tell her this is unacceptable. If younhave asked her to stop and she does not then you have to tell her as her husband you will not accept this. The sooner this is done the more likely the positive outcome. But be aware too much damage may have already occured.


----------



## Ostera

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


here is my answer... YES, if a woman was being flirtatious with me ( like your wife was with him) I, as a man, would think in the back of my mind that if I played it right, this could progress. 

Her communications with him seem just at the edge where she can still claim innocense... however, on the other side of that edge is a complete drop off.

As her husband, I would ask her to step back from the ledge, because she might 'accidently' fall.. and once you fall you can't get back to the edge.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy,
> 
> It is an open lobby and you can see the chairs. Can't go back there for sterility issues I believe, but I would be able to see his face. Do you think it is a good idea to go with her and let the guy finish it? *If I force her to switch artists, she will still bang this guy, probably harder, if that is her intention. * If was not her intention, she will hate me for it.


If youn really think she flat intends to bang this guy then send her on her way. 

So you are going to alter your actions so she does not bang this guy "harder". Seriously?

No I do not think this is a good idea to let him finish it.
It was a horrible idea to let him start. Let him finish the seduction. Hell no.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy,
> 
> I know about the self torture. I am a master martyr personality, so some part of me does like it maybe, but this time the empty feeling in the stomach is winning out.


It is its own reward. If you want to torment yourself you are doing a wonderful job of it. Decide which person to feed inside of you and starve the other. It is your choice.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I've been with women around many a tattoo... and I'm always standing there watching the work get done. There is a lot of time to talk and flirt with an exposed woman in an intimate setting with high level of tension. Absolutely dumb to not be there imo. Might as well tell them to go in another room and let him put his hands all over her and trust nothing develops... in essence, this is what is happening. I know more than one woman who got busy with their tattoo artist.

Her texts indicate she's already getting off in her mind with this guy. When a woman texts me in that sort of flirtatious manner, I know I have a green light to get whatever I want without even trying.

1 - you can't trust her... c'mon man!! "when do you want to do me" followed by ooh... I just realized how suggestive that was... hahaha... give me a break. The recognition of how suggestive it is IS the flirt - to make SURE he got it. It's an outright invitation!

2 - your present course relies on the "professional" behavior of a tattoo artist.

Good luck with that.


----------



## Ostera

joshbjoshb said:


> P.S. I am sorry for being harsh here. Seeing someone that is teaching ideas to young folks about facts of life, when he - or she - are not ready to stand by it, drives me crazy.
> 
> Okay, back to work.


I have read the entire thread to this point.. I guess I missed the part where he teaches open marriages in his Anthopolgy, Algebra or Calculus classes.. 

OR is this just a HUGE leap to conclusions ???


----------



## anonymous42

Ostera:

Huge leap to conclusions...


----------



## anonymous42

Entropy,

You really want me to put my foot down don't you.


----------



## naga75

YOU need to want you to put your foot down, dude.


----------



## ravioli

Women with large tattoos and multiple ones, are usually sexual freaks. Buddy, I STRONGLY encourage you to enforce the rules, no ifs ands or butts. The way you sound and describe your wife, it seems like she is chomping at the bit for a tattoo artist to lay the pipe. Tell her she can't use that tattoo artist and force her to go to another one. If she she is not able to find another tattoo artist, then watch EVERY SINGLE session. 

But you need to have the talk about letting her having sex with another man. Tell her you were in another state of mind and what the consequences are for flirting and infidelity. She still thinks that you don't mind if she flirts or sleeps around. It's time to get mean, and these tattooed women LOVE men who put their foot down. The more passive you are the more she will walk all over you. You cannot let this keep going on.


----------



## anonymous42

Ravioli,

I believe you are right, and I knew she was a sex freak when I married her, just did not know that attention was going to go away so fast! I get the feeling that the more in her face that I am, the better this will work out. I'm sure she is, and I think I will confront her again this weekend. (She works 36 hours so I won't see her much.) I'll let you all know how this goes..


----------



## anonymous42

Ravioli,

I also agree that I need to redefine openness and tell her by that now I mean we can talk about anything with each other, not DO anything with others.


----------



## anchorwatch

anonymous42 said:


> (She works 36 hours so I won't see her much.)


That's a big problem too! It's got to be at least 15 hours a week for bonding. Alone, not in front of a TV. 

You really need to do the reads. lol


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> Entropy,
> 
> You really want me to put my foot down don't you.


Only if you want to turn this around. Otherwsie keep going the way you are.

Like I said, feed the person in you you want to survive and starve the other.

If I were you I would want to be the only guy in her sexual life. But that is just me.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

anonymous42 said:


> Her: Although I'm sure it leaves you very little to look forward to if I don't come in every week
> 
> _Invitation to making a compliment and entering the flirtation arena_
> 
> Him: Lol, ikr!? Not very many pieces can stand up to yours through the week for sure...Very fun piece
> 
> _Reaction is positive, flirtation is executed as requested. Both now know they are game for eachother._
> 
> Then the next day she texts him on her way to evening class.
> 
> _Texting in transportion situation is a classic_
> 
> Him: How late can you stay???
> 
> _Deliberately double meaing, and a clear invitation to enter the physical domain when she is ready. If not now then later, but the vocabulary has been established to make her think of a PA._
> 
> She texts him again on her way home from class
> 
> _Also a classic: the red flag of the number of texts is increasing. Very quick this develops, because she is hungry for contact._
> 
> Her: We don't have any clinic next week, so if it's on Monday or Wednesday I can stay all night. Friday I have to work at 10:30.
> 
> (stay all night????)
> 
> _Yes, your gut is right..._
> 
> Him: Ok, I'll text u in a bit and see what's goin on...
> 
> _Also in the mood of establishing the habit of frequent texting, the EA is confirmed._
> 
> 
> I'm in the middle of a piece at the moment )
> 
> _And he communicates to be thinking of *her* while doing that_


EA for sure. PA coming soon.


----------



## 28down

I would be with her, simple as that!


----------



## King Ding Dong

How about she get a tattoo of me also?


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

I truly think you have big problems other than the tattoo guy.

-She's nearing her sexual prime, maybe she's in it, but she doesn't want to have sex(hint here: not with you anyways.)That means she's not sexually attracted to you. She is probably having sexual thoughts about anyone but you. That sucks. You need to have a long-term plan to build the attraction back. And this cannot be done by lame-ass romance either. Read Married Man Sex Life Primer and run the MAP.

-You haven't pairbonded with your wife. Weird that someone who teaches anthropology is clueless about basic human relationships. Has she ever said she felt like roommates etc? You need to spend time, use non-sexual touching, communicate daily, even go on dates to successfully go from basic infatuation/attraction to pairbonding. "His Needs Her Needs" and spending 15 hours weekly with your wife for just "you" time is very important.

-But there is also the imminent danger. Building attraction and pairbonding takes time. But she's got her eyes on another guy. so you cannot let this go on. I agree with other posters, you've let this go on longer than enough.You have to put your foot down, and you have to do it in the strongest and most assertive way possible. If you turn into a blubbering, pleading, begging, crying whinebag... she may pity you and let this go(she probably won't even do that and take it underground) and start another affair in a short time. And leave you. And rape you in divorce court. And make false accusations about you to every mutual friend you have.... So be a man and put your foot down... LIKE A MAN. Now, the problem with this is, you don't have the kind of relationship with your wife that she respects your demands. I mean, why should she, after all you are just a roomie. So... I think you should be ready for the break of your marriage, just in case.


----------



## diwali123

She does seem like she is being very flirty. I get the feeling that she is very attracted to him. I don't get how people can be thinking about sex while they are in such pain. When I got my tat, that was the last thing on my mind. I got mine from a woman but I just can't imagine. 
I don't know that she has decided she wants to cheat but she definitely enjoys the sexual chemistry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

diwali123 said:


> I don't get how people can be thinking about sex while they are in such pain. When I got my tat, that was the last thing on my mind.


A lot of people get off on pain. She's submissive to this guy. She's laying there vulnerable, he's putting something on her that's always going to be there... there's a lot of attitude and "kinky" potential in tattooing and these guys are preeminent examples of "don't give a f..." manliness that will make your typical damaged chick swoon. Compared to OP, who is coming off overly nice and weak... this guy is a stud. Female primal brain, doin' its thing.

OP: You don't seriously need to ask other people if these texts are innocent. YOU don't think they're innocent. THAT's why you're here. Now its time to ante up.

One guy I know who is a tat artist gets more @ss than a ladies' room toilet seat.

The way I figure, this is how your conversation with your wife should go. No more beating around the bush. Get some balls and put your foot down. She IS about to hook up with this guy if she hasn't already.

Him: "Babe, I tried to be understanding, but this stuff with the tat guy isn't flying with me anymore. You need to get a new one."
Her: "What? You're just being jealous and paranoid. Its innocent. He's cool, totally professional and the best at it."
Him: "I don't care. This texting and flirting is bullsh!t. Get your priorities straight. I'm not gonna sit back while you go line up to bang some loser tattoo artist."
Her: "I can do what I damn well please. You're really becoming a controlling jerk."
Him: "Tough sh!t. You're done with him or you're done with me. I brought this up nicely before and its clear you don't give a crap how I feel about it. I'm done with it."

The next part is tricky, because she's still probably going to come at this guy. So you basically need to keep your head up and be ready to bail. The writing is on the wall... she doesn't respect you.


----------



## MissBrittB87

anonymous42 said:


> A lot of you did not answer my main question those. If you are a woman, what kind of message are you sending by sending that text? And if you are a man, and you receive that kind of text from a married woman, do you feel an invitation for sex?


I feel it's stupid and inappropriate behavior. If she wants a tattoo ...find a female artist. I would never let a guy see/touch a part of my body that in anyway required undressing. If I ever decided on getting a tattoo, it would be on my wrist or the back of my neck. And my fiance would go with me. But that's me.


----------



## MrK

I trigger the few times a month I drive past my wife's old favorite bar. Imagine living with this trigger tatoo'ed on her back 24-7.


----------



## Maricha75

diwali123 said:


> She does seem like she is being very flirty. I get the feeling that she is very attracted to him. *I don't get how people can be thinking about sex while they are in such pain.* When I got my tat, that was the last thing on my mind. I got mine from a woman but I just can't imagine.
> I don't know that she has decided she wants to cheat but she definitely enjoys the sexual chemistry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you kidding? As DvlsAdvc8 said, some get off on pain. And, I have a former friend who left her husband for her tattoo artist. 

To answer the OP question: if my husband sent texts like that to a female tattoo artist, or anyone really, there's no question about it... he'd be looking for a new tattoo artist. I would see it as an invitation to something inappropriate, at the VERY least.


----------



## anonymous42

So I did some more research on the shop and found that it is notorious for offering sex for tattoos and drawing ****s on girls and all the good stuff. Worst in town as far as I could tell. When the day of the appointment came, it was supposed to start at 12, but did not start until 3, and my wife and the artists had various stories as to why. So I decided she had ****ed him and I got a little crazy for a while until she started bawling one day saying that I had no faith in her and she could never forgive me for making her feel like a *****. So anyhow, I went and got a therapist. She said she will probably start going too. Beyond that, she still was acting crazy and not sleeping with me so I decided to bang her current best friend who has been texting me non-stop the last couple of weeks. Presto, within an hour of her friend leaving, my wife comes home and jumps on me in a way she has not in 2 years. She tells me she has done soul searching and is going to open her heart to me, give me more blowjobs, everything. She has been screwing me every day since, even when she works a 12 hour shift. My lesson from all this: do whatever it takes to get your confidence back. Women sense things subconsciously. I'm guessing from now on I will just sleep around when she is starting to with hold the sex. Is this a good strategy?


----------



## Thoreau

Wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anonymous42

somehow I knew that would be the first response. wow. i guess that is wow huh. however, my wife wants to sleep with this friend too, so really, all the cards are in her hands too. She is talking my wife into going into business together too. Triad anyone???


----------



## anchorwatch

WTF? 

You have more problems than you know. Time to grow up. Have a nice life.


----------



## anonymous42

well it worked for now...you guys don't seem to understand that she can't be open with me about part of herself but that does not mean I am offended and going to leave her. She is an amazing woman and she has shown many signs of opening up recently. She works too hard and so it leaves her little time for our relationship, plus she approached it badly. She genuinely seems to have a new approach now, but the lack of energy and time together will be a problem until we get **** together financially, which with 5 children, will take some time. I appreciate all of the advice, but I do feel it is super conservative for the most part. I do not believe people are monogamous biologically, and while many people certainly conform to that, other can't or choose not to. I choose not to and want to be open about it, while my wife chooses not to and has trouble being open about it. That issue has more to do with her than me. My issue is letting go of my jealousy and insecurity if I am going to be involved in an open "don't ask don't tell" relationship which I agreed was acceptable when we embarked on this adventure. I guess temporarily, my solution was to break the glass, I felt it was an emergency. It has definitely worked out well in my favor, and now her best friend may be pressing for a threesome. How can this be bad, considering where I was, acting like a punk and whining and looking through her phone?


----------



## anonymous42

so she's a ***** and I'm a troll now? Why is everyone so judgemental. Do you feel like exclusive sex bonds you immortaly with your mate or do you just not want to hurt their precious feelings by touching others? We barely touch each other in this spirit - forsaken society as it is...why is love bad but violence okay?


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

If others don't "get it", why should you care, anonymous42? Your life is yours to live. 

Are you looking for advice? OR validation from strangers? 

If you think your 'revelation' is SHOCKING....it's not. I've heard/seen/met stuff a LOT more shocking than some guy who got a piece of ass on the side in an open marriage.

Meh.


----------



## anonymous42

I did not know her BFF when this thing started...she is a recent BFF


----------



## See_Listen_Love

The good thing is that you now communicate with her on boundaries, althoug they are different from what the posters here would like to see. But I respect your choice and her behaviour shows improvement from your point of view. So yeah I think you do better now.


----------



## Suspecting

anonymous42 said:


> I decided to bang her current best friend


Did you tattoo her back?


----------



## anonymous42

See_Listen_Love - Your posts were great in my opinion. Appreciate positive feedback and I do think new horizens are in store.


----------



## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> well it worked for now...you guys don't seem to understand that she can't be open with me about part of herself but that does not mean I am offended and going to leave her. She is an amazing woman and she has shown many signs of opening up recently. She works too hard and so it leaves her little time for our relationship, plus she approached it badly. She genuinely seems to have a new approach now, but the lack of energy and time together will be a problem until we get **** together financially, which with 5 children, will take some time. I appreciate all of the advice, but I do feel it is super conservative for the most part. I do not believe people are monogamous biologically, and while many people certainly conform to that, other can't or choose not to. I choose not to and want to be open about it, while my wife chooses not to and has trouble being open about it. That issue has more to do with her than me. *My issue is letting go of my jealousy and insecurity *if I am going to be involved in an open "don't ask don't tell" relationship which I agreed was acceptable when we embarked on this adventure. I guess temporarily, my solution was to break the glass, I felt it was an emergency. It has definitely worked out well in my favor, and now her best friend may be pressing for a threesome. How can this be bad, considering where I was, acting like a punk and whining and looking through her phone?


We seem to have a number of guys who are fine with their amazing wives having sex with other guys and who are only posting here for advice on how to feel fine about it. Like it is a bad thing. LOL.

These things end up being a hotwifing story.


----------



## somethingelse

anonymous42 said:


> Beyond that, she still was acting crazy and not sleeping with me so I decided to bang her current best friend who has been texting me non-stop the last couple of weeks. Presto, within an hour of her friend leaving, my wife comes home and jumps on me in a way she has not in 2 years.


Are you serious? Over what span of time did this all happen? You sound just as impulsive as your W, except more so. You took this opportunity of total assumption and did her BF? Why??

Sounds to me like you are the one with the problem, not your W. Even if she did end up doing what you "thought" she "May" have been doing, that still doesn't justify you going out and giving yourself away to anyone. But I already know why you decided to do that, so no explanation needed.

Oh...and just so you know....your W is only being very sexual because she's marking her territory and trying to get your eyes on her. It's not because she thinks your the hottest thing around. Trust me, I've been in her shoes. I did the same thing with my H and years later resented him so much for the things he did to me that I ended up having A's myself. 

Watch out now...you've opened up a can of worms. You may not see the effects of it now because you and your W are in La La Land, but later it will hit you like a ton of bricks. 

Sorry to be so blunt. But I've been traumatized by impulsive behavior like this from my own H, and it makes me very angry to see you acting so nonchalant about this..like it's the best thing that's ever happened to you.


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## MissBrittB87

That is beyond......I am really stunned. I wish you the best of luck.


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## See_Listen_Love

People forget that the succes rate of marriages are very low, at least in my opinon. Other kinds of relation like open marriages and poly-amory, mistresses and 'masters' are not worse in that aspect. 

Betrayal is the real problem. So if people agree to have a certain relation that is much better than open or secret betraying eachother.


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## lovelygirl

You both have got boundary problems. 

If I were your wife I don't think I'd have much respect left for you because you seem to be too easy to give your wife away for another man's pleasure and you don't know how to protect what's yours. This is a big turn off for women, especially those of your wife's type. 
None of you sounds like marriage material and if you both want to bang other people then what was the point of getting married in the first place?


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## anonymous42

lovelygirl,

I don't own my wife, she is not mine like that. I would protect her if someone was trying to physically hurt her. Last I checked, sex feels pretty good and sometime even hurts good too. Gay people, polyamorous people, all kinds of people should have the right to get married and enjoy the legal benefits and those of living together. Perhaps not marriage as you conceive, but marriage nonetheless.

somethingelse,

This all happened in less than a month. Yes, we are both very impulsive and sexual...this is why I suggested an open relationship in the first place. I have hung out with her BF several times since and no intimacy has happened further. Maybe it was a one time thing. At any rate, upon going to therapy and re examining my own behavior, I think that the greater problem has little to do with my wife and relates to my own fixation on orgasm. I have been addicted to cumming since I was able to. So now I have ceased masturbating, watching porn, and when we have sex, I don't have to finish, but can. It is more about her. All of this came from my own idea that my sexual energy needs to be raised. This is basic tantra for those who don't know. I am now doing more reading on the subject and beginning to understand how I have accepted this base and masculine type of sex and how it misdirects a lot of my thoughts and messes me up in intimate situations. I feel real hope with this approach...much more so than having contest with wife to see who can **** the most other people...


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## somethingelse

anonymous42 said:


> lovelygirl,
> 
> I don't own my wife, she is not mine like that. I would protect her if someone was trying to physically hurt her. Last I checked, sex feels pretty good and sometime even hurts good too. Gay people, polyamorous people, all kinds of people should have the right to get married and enjoy the legal benefits and those of living together. Perhaps not marriage as you conceive, but marriage nonetheless.
> 
> somethingelse,
> 
> This all happened in less than a month. Yes, we are both very impulsive and sexual...this is why I suggested an open relationship in the first place. I have hung out with her BF several times since and no intimacy has happened further. Maybe it was a one time thing. At any rate, upon going to therapy and re examining my own behavior, I think that the greater problem has little to do with my wife and relates to my own fixation on orgasm. I have been addicted to cumming since I was able to. So now I have ceased masturbating, watching porn, and when we have sex, I don't have to finish, but can. It is more about her. All of this came from my own idea that my sexual energy needs to be raised. This is basic tantra for those who don't know. I am now doing more reading on the subject and beginning to understand how I have accepted this base and masculine type of sex and how it misdirects a lot of my thoughts and messes me up in intimate situations. I feel real hope with this approach...much more so than having contest with wife to see who can **** the most other people...



Sorry I was so mean about it. I just hate to see this going on between people all of the time, including my own M. It drains the soul and is sick all together. I think a lot of people allow themselves to get caught up in the thought of sexual pleasure with other people more so than pleasing their current S and enjoying the benefits that come with having a S. For myself, I know what my H likes and what he doesn't like in bed. Other women couldn't possibly know what I know...therefore I think sex with other people is like void emptiness. For my H, the only thing that keeps him wanting to have other women is most likely the high he gets from "winning" them over. But he's told me before that after he does the dirty, all he wants is to do is leave and come home to me. 

I'm happy for you if you are doing your part in making your M better. That's what it's all about. Absorb yourself in your mate, and make sure your W is on the same page as you


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## See_Listen_Love

Tantra has some wonderful tips and trics also for the beginner...


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## anonymous42

See_Listen_Love - I am now reading a book about female tantra and it is blowing my mind. I have done my share of personal rituals with natural psychedelic medicines (san pedro, psilocybin, etc.) but I don't know that anything has blown my mind more than not thinking about cumming. I don't even know what to think about, so I think about not cumming and read more about tantra. It hits everything right on the head. The problem is not about monogamy, but relaxation. That is the problem with our whole world, we can't relax. We can't enjoy sex because we just want to "get off." We can't enjoy work because we just want to get home. We can't enjoy home because...and on and on. This restless spirit comes from the two triangles, which are the mark of the beast. (In my opinion) It is a double male energy. Takes 6 dots to make two triangles, or the sign for two males. Male - Male - Male....fire fire fire...no balance. That is the problem here. But now as I read, I'm realizing my wife has the same issue with sex. She can't relax either, and treats it from the masculine approach mostly...


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## anonymous42

somethingelse - appreciate the kinder words. I talked to my wife about tantra last night and she read a few pages and basically laughed it off. I think I'm pretty much on my own, but the beauty of tantra is realizing that is the case anyhow, and we can reach ecstasy on our own - even without ejaculation. I feel like my whole perspective is shifting into the softness. I had a stretch 13 years ago where I felt the same but did not understand the relationship with cumming. Everything scientific I read, said it is good for the body and brain, yadda yadda. However, we can orgasm in other ways and changing the focus off of that pretty much changes the entire game in sex, life everything. Like I could still see possibility of 3 some or group sex or dates with wife involved but now I won't press for it because I don't care about getting off. Not wanting to cum has put me more in the moment than ever...it almost feels like limbo...but creativity is there. I like the idea of softness in perspective and absorbing into mate like you said. I still have a long ways to go, but I think I see the path now...


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## CleanJerkSnatch

It sounds as though your question has already been answered. You also seem like you want to reinvent the wheel with all these "new ideas" which are only as old as humans have been alive. Tantra is bologna. If you want something to learn, learn how to have DOs back to back.


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## anonymous42

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> It sounds as though your question has already been answered. You also seem like you want to reinvent the wheel with all these "new ideas" which are only as old as humans have been alive. Tantra is bologna. If you want something to learn, learn how to have DOs back to back.


I already can have lots of orgasms in a row. Tantra is not bologna. Anything spiritual is bologna to people who choose to ignore it. Idea originality and patent are capitalist obsessions. There are not any completely original ideas, it is mathematically and semiotically impossible. Our very language we think with is given to us. However, an idea applied, no matter how old it is, can change you...maybe even becoming wisdom. Getting off four times in a row, well that is just American as apple pie. Winning???


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## See_Listen_Love

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> It sounds as though your question has already been answered. Y_ou also seem like you want to reinvent the wheel with all these "new ideas" which are only as old as humans have been alive. Tantra is bologna._ If you want something to learn, learn how to have DOs back to back.


This reminds me of G.W. Bush.

He his hopeless. I hope you find a new road of thinking, it's right before you.


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## Nsweet

I'm not surprised his reaction to the wife cheating, many many many times, is just to improve his skills in bed. Because, after all that's her latest excuse and he buys it. She's not going to stay with you for very long friend, you know this to be true. You just don't want to believe it yourself because that would mean giving up on a disfunctional relationship you find too thrilling fighting for. I mean any slight affection she gives you, any night she sleeps with you instead of someone else, is going to get you that domapine high you crave. 

But seeing your actions after 12 pages, you two deserve each other.


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## Lyris

How can this possibly all have happened in a month? Suspicion-tattoo-weird paranoia-banging new BFF (how old are you?)-therapy-recommitment to wife- tantra. And five kids?

Troll.


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## anonymous42

See_Listen_Love said:


> This reminds me of G.W. Bush.
> 
> He his hopeless. I hope you find a new road of thinking, it's right before you.


No doubt right. Ignore the subtleties, they'll go away...


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## anonymous42

So now we have an open relationship totally...just the way I always wanted. Thanks for the advice everyone


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## anonymous42

Especially See_Listen_Love ... it does not surprise me that you aren't from America if you know what I mean... (assuming Belgium right?)


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## See_Listen_Love

anonymous42 said:


> Especially See_Listen_Love ... it does not surprise me that you aren't from America if you know what I mean... (assuming Belgium right?)


Yes, although I see on this forums more the European versus the North Amercian difference displayed. 

So in my country, but I believe this is true for Europe as a whole, there is a more tolerant climate for different views on relations.

I think the US is a more black and white thinking nation because of it's short history. It went from the stone age to superpower in a too short amount of time.

When I think about idea's and concepts, the world of thinking starts with the ancient Greek and the Romans.

In Europe there has been a lot of violent repression and torture of people with different opinions, and I think because of that the upper layers of society are well aware of the dangers of close minded thinking, and value the democratic freedoms more than where there is not such an imprint of history.

Meaning that in sexual liberation the new forms of relation, like poly-amory, open marriages, gay marriage etc. are more evaluated on their practical meaning for peoples lives then on their moral and ethical aspects. 

This because morality en ethic are seen as the personal domain of each person. One can ventilate his own views, but has to respect those of the other.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

Umm, I don't see an open marriage here, sorry. A successful open marriage is full of honest communication and mutual respect. What we have here is two people cheating on each other.


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## Chaparral

They sure make George Bush look wonderful. I didn't think anyone could do that better than obama.


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## anonymous42

See_Listen_Love said:


> So in my country, but I believe this is true for Europe as a whole, there is a more tolerant climate for different views on relations............
> 
> In Europe there has been a lot of violent repression and torture of people with different opinions, and I think because of that the upper layers of society are well aware of the dangers of close minded thinking, and value the democratic freedoms more than where there is not such an imprint of history.
> 
> Meaning that in sexual liberation the new forms of relation, like poly-amory, open marriages, gay marriage etc. are more evaluated on their practical meaning for peoples lives then on their moral and ethical aspects.
> 
> This because morality en ethic are seen as the personal domain of each person. One can ventilate his own views, but has to respect those of the other.


tolerance, awareness, openness, all parts of empathetic perceving, which is essential for meaningful connections. these qualities are often not present in "conservative" critique on love situations, but if there is no tolerance, awareness, or openness in your advice, then there is no love in it. To you I say what do you have to tell me about love without love?


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## Suspecting

Anonymous42, what will you do if/when the OM tattoos his penis, his name, their initials inside of a heart, or similar territorial life long mark on your wife?


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## anonymous42

Suspecting said:


> Anonymous42, what will you do if/when the OM tattoos his penis, his name, their initials inside of a heart, or similar territorial life long mark on your wife?


have her remove it


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## Nsweet

You just don't see it because you can't let this argument go. You're not going to have a happy relationship with this woman who continually cheats on you, and you're too young and inexperienced for marriage, PERIOD. You can whine, b!tch, cry, and try to prove you know better but it's not going to get any better for either of you.


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## See_Listen_Love

Nsweet said:


> You just don't see it because you can't let this argument go. You're not going to have a happy relationship with this woman who continually cheats on you, and you're too young and inexperienced for marriage, PERIOD. You can whine, b!tch, cry, and try to prove you know better but it's not going to get any better for either of you.


What many people do not see is that the sugar candy Disney 'reality' of most marriages is also a kind of mutual agreed illusion people choose to believe in for a couple of years....

You could give the same rant to anyone saying to believe in marriage.


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## Entropy3000

See_Listen_Love said:


> Yes, although I see on this forums more the European versus the North Amercian difference displayed.
> 
> So in my country, but I believe this is true for Europe as a whole, there is a more tolerant climate for different views on relations.
> 
> I think the US is a more black and white thinking nation because of it's short history. It went from the stone age to superpower in a too short amount of time.
> 
> When I think about idea's and concepts, the world of thinking starts with the ancient Greek and the Romans.
> 
> In Europe there has been a lot of violent repression and torture of people with different opinions, and I think because of that the upper layers of society are well aware of the dangers of close minded thinking, and value the democratic freedoms more than where there is not such an imprint of history.
> 
> Meaning that in sexual liberation the new forms of relation, like poly-amory, open marriages, gay marriage etc. are more evaluated on their practical meaning for peoples lives then on their moral and ethical aspects.
> 
> This because morality en ethic are seen as the personal domain of each person. One can ventilate his own views, but has to respect those of the other.


Actually you are just jealous. You have to have a high self esteem to have good boundaries. Feel free to accept less in your life and justify it anyway you wish. But indeed many had to flee from Europe to seek freedom. The Middle East was flourishing while Europe sufferred through the Dark Ages. The world wars of the last century had left Europe devastated and trying to seek an identity. Many great things came from Europe ... including America. But indeed some of the worst things have happened there as well. Make sure you thank the Brits, Russians and Americans every morning for the freedom you now so much enjoy.

But this thread is very contrived. Sharing your wife with another man is nothing to be proud of. It is not elightened.


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## Entropy3000

anonymous42 said:


> have her remove it


It is her body. You do NOT own her. You can NOT have your wife do anything. You are NOT her dad.


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## Entropy3000

See_Listen_Love said:


> What many people do not see is that the sugar candy Disney 'reality' of most marriages is also a kind of mutual agreed illusion people choose to believe in for a couple of years....
> 
> You could give the same rant to anyone saying to believe in marriage.


Hey. I hope you get it together dude. I really do. Don't give up. Whatever destroyed your spirit can be mended.


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## See_Listen_Love

Entropy3000 said:


> Actually you are just jealous. You have to have a high self esteem to have good boundaries. Feel free to accept less in your life and justify it anyway you wish. But indeed many had to flee from Europe to seek freedom. The Middle East was flourishing while Europe sufferred through the Dark Ages. The world wars of the last century had left Europe devastated and trying to seek an identity. Many great things came from Europe ... including America. But indeed some of the worst things have happened there as well. Make sure you thank the Brits, Russians and Americans every morning for the freedom you now so much enjoy.
> 
> But this thread is very contrived. Sharing your wife with another man is nothing to be proud of. It is not elightened.


??

If you look up how the french, and other europeans, view the relation of French prime-minister Mitterand with his wife and mistress, and the acknowledging of it, then you get what I mean.

"Mitterrand had numerous extramarital affairs. He and his long-standing mistress, Anne Pingeot, had a daughter together, called Mazarine. Mitterrand sought secrecy about the issue, which lasted until November 1994, when Mitterrand's failing health and impending retirement meant that he could no longer count on the fear and respect that he had once engendered among French journalists. Mazarine, a college student, had by then reached an age at which her identity could no longer be protected as a minor."


It has been a habit by many in earlier day's. As far as I know the US presidents and lots of others in higher circles around him have the same lifestyle.


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## See_Listen_Love

Entropy3000 said:


> Hey. I hope you get it together dude. I really do. Don't give up. Whatever destroyed your spirit can be mended.


I don't understand, you surely know about the statistics of marriage and divorce?

I myself am an proponent of RLITM, Romantic Love In The Marriage, but that does not withold me from realising the numbers.


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## anonymous42

NSweet...thanks for more conservative ranting. Texas...hmmmm


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## anonymous42

Entropy,
I think you have to have high sexual confidence and security to have loose boundaries. It is good for insecure people to know what the boundaries are. If I am not worried of her falling in love with another, or enjoying sex more with another, and she cannot get pregnant, what am I to worry if she uses protection? That she might come because of someone else. I might as well be jealous of dildos


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## anonymous42

If you do a little research you may find that monogamy has increased in both value and as a fairytale as patriarchal society has risen. In societies that are more sexually open we see less violence between and within cultures. Another good comparison is chimpanzees vs bonobos (essentially 2 species of chimps). The Bonobos have rampant sex, lesbian, gay, group, etc, where the chimps are monogamous or serial monogamous like humans. Turns out, chimps are way more violent. Penises are not weapons. Sex is not a bad thing. It is when we apply the market mentality and want to cum and want to own each other that it gets all kinds of ****ed up.


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## anonymous42

most westerners probably feel disappointed that the love fairy tale is an outright lie. we live, we die, ashes to ashes dust to dust, we are all made up of the very same stuff. we can not stay with any soul forever, not even our own


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