# D-Day 06/22/11 Into the Abyss....



## cj9947

It was 8 P.M. and I was sitting in the kitchen reading Car & Driver. My wife approached me and asked to speak with me in the living room. I kind of laughed because I thought she was being a little formal. 

We sat down side by side on the sofa and she looked me in the eyes and said, "I have been having sex with a co-worker." My mind went blank and all emotion left my body. I felt as though I had falling down a well. I was so caught by surprise that I had no response nor questions to ask. I just instantly sensed that my life as I knew it was over.

We have been married for 17 years. Because of my upbringing and life experiences my marriage was my life. It was how I measured myself as a man. My maternal great-grandfather, maternal grandfather and father were horrendous cheaters and abusers. In fact all three got women pregnant while their wives were pregnant. I vowed I would never take one step down the path they chose and I didn't.

I am taking one day at a time and strangely still do not seem overly interested in her side of the story. I made her go to a hotel while I process this.

Thank for listening...it feels good to get this off my chest.


----------



## sdesruiss

Hey CJ, it is tough man. I know your situation feels so personal to you, but fwiw, don't feel too alone. I could have written your exact same words here a year ago. I have always thought that I could still R, but, like you, after 18 years of marriage, I am SLOWLY begining to see / feel that either I never really knew who she was OR maybe she has just become some different person now? I only hope that you find some clarity in what you want. I relate to your situation of making my marriage & family my life, which does make this so much more difficult to get past. Keep your head up, I work on it every day. This place does seem to help with reading other peoples situations and talking to other about yours.


----------



## jnj express

Make sure you take care of your self---eat, exercise, and get plenty of sleep

You do need to find out why this happened

What was wrong with your mge., as your wife saw it, that caused her to give herself to another----other question would be---do the 2 of you communicate back and forth, or are their problems of you 2 working out marital flaws---also does your wife have FOO problems

Just some things to ask yourself---then it becomes what do you wanna do about all of this


----------



## Cypress

I'm sorry your here. I have a few questions:

Did she say why she told you?
Did she say how long this has been going on?
What do you know about the OM?
Is she remorseful and willing to work on the marriage?
Will she agree to no contact for life with the OM?
Will she quit her job?
Is the OM married?
Do you want to stay in the marriage?
Do you have any children?


----------



## cj9947

sdesruiss said:


> Hey CJ, it is tough man. I know your situation feels so personal to you, but fwiw, don't feel too alone. I could have written your exact same words here a year ago. I have always thought that I could still R, but, like you, after 18 years of marriage, I am SLOWLY begining to see / feel that either I never really knew who she was OR maybe she has just become some different person now? I only hope that you find some clarity in what you want. I relate to your situation of making my marriage & family my life, which does make this so much more difficult to get past. Keep your head up, I work on it every day. This place does seem to help with reading other peoples situations and talking to other about yours.


Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words.


----------



## cj9947

1. Did she say why she told you? - We had just returned from a week visit with her side of the family. My In-Laws have always shown me respect and love. We have really taken to each other as family. She said the way I showed respect to her parents made her realize how important I was to her and that she felt as though I should know what she did. Her answer seemed convoluted and confusing to me. By the way she explained herself and and her body language I got a sense she did not fully appreciate the significance of her behavior before she told me. I honestly think she probably would not have told me if understood the ramifications of her behavior. Her logic and explanation were very strange to me.

2. Did she say how long this has been going on? - 3 1/2 months

3. What do you know about the OM? Co-worker, married, 3 kids, short, pudgy, balding....

4. Is she remorseful and willing to work on the marriage? I get a weird vibe of remorselessness from her. It's hard to explain. Kind of like, "I'm sorry, now lets go out to dinner." She said she wants to work on the marriage and she proudly said, "No more sex with anyone outside the marriage." I got the sense I was supposed to be impressed with that after 17 years of marriage. Weird...

5. Will she agree to no contact for life with the OM? Did not discuss the topic yet.

6. Will she quit her job? Did not discuss the topic yet.

7. Is the OM married? Yes

8. Do you want to stay in the marriage? I have not even considered that. I seem to be more focused on, "What the hell have I been doing with my life the last 17 years?" and "Why did this happen to me?"

9. Do you have any children? No

The whole experience of talking to her for about one hour today about this seemed surreal. Her ways of thinking and explaining things were so foreign to me. Before she was clear cut and black & white about issues like infidelity when other people did it. I got the sense until she saw my reaction that she did not think cheating was a deal breaker. It was something that could be worked on and through the process we would come out better for it afterword. Shocking...


----------



## cj9947

jnj express said:


> Make sure you take care of your self---eat, exercise, and get plenty of sleep
> 
> You do need to find out why this happened
> 
> What was wrong with your mge., as your wife saw it, that caused her to give herself to another----other question would be---do the 2 of you communicate back and forth, or are their problems of you 2 working out marital flaws---also does your wife have FOO problems
> 
> Just some things to ask yourself---then it becomes what do you wanna do about all of this


1) What was wrong with your mge., as your wife saw it - she said I was too critical about a couple of situations. I was bewildered by that statement. I had to press for an example because I am truly a mild mannered person. It turned she did not like it some time in the past when I warned her about drinking and driving. She got out of the car once and I smelled alcohol and she seemed a wee bit tipsy. In her head I guess I am not supposed to speak up when I see a safety issue. The real shocker about that statement was that she later admitted she slept with him that very night and used my comments to justify further liaisons.

2) do the 2 of you communicate back and forth - Dear God Yes!!! No excuses there for her.

3) FOO problems????


----------



## Cypress

cj9947,

FOO = Family OF Origin

*All Waywards Lie. Its not what they say, its what they do that counts*

You have a lot of work ahead of you. You need to be able to ascertain if contact continues between them. And at the same time, bust up the affair. You need to speak clearly and decisively to her. Do not give up an inch.

Women don't usually give themselves to another man just for sex. There is usually a strong emotional bond. Because they work together, this bond will be rekindled to some degree every time they talk ,even if its strictly at a professional level. When they see each other the rekindling will be even more pronounced. She made the sorry decision to commit adultery. She will need to quit her job. 

She must agree, without reservation, to* No Contact For Life*. No contact includes any electronic means, cell phone, texting, e-mail, facebook, everything. She will need to give you access to all her passwords, e-mail accounts and phones. She may have a second affair phone. She has broken your trust completely and must earn it back.

You should also monitor her independently. Put a Voice Activated Recorder and a GPS tracker in her car. They are not expensive. You will hear any call she makes and anyone who talks to her with the VAR. The GPS tracker will tell you where she is at any time. Do not tell her about these.

Busting up the affair happens best with exposure. Talk to the OMW first. Work with her to track the errant waywards location. If that does not do the trick with in 24 hours, tell all of your family and hers. If it has not ended in 24 hours, write a short professional letter to their employer about their use of company resources (email system) and company time to carry on the affair. Many employers will fire both parties pretty quickly.

If you can positively verify that the affair has ended, then its time to build a new marriage with her. This can still work even if she is angry as hell that the affair is over.


----------



## Eli-Zor

cj9947


To start recovery you have to close a few items down

She hand writes a no contact letter that you approve and send

You contact his wife and tell her of the affair

She leaves her job now, not tomorrow, not next week ,now.

Together you tell her parents, this is to protect you, to prevent her from lying in the future and is one of the steps to ensure that she does not re-enter the affair. 

Get yourself the book, "surviving an affair" by Harley it will give you some further pointers. 

Never accept fault for the affair. Know that you can never trust her fully again as she has proven she is willing to have sex with another man .


----------



## mrsunshine

"A GPS tracker for her car" and "Voice Activated Recorders"............are you kidding me? - why would he, or anyone, want to live like that????????. 




The only "work" you have ahead of you is finding out how to legally get out of your marriage with as little cost to you as possible.

Facts: 
1. You will NEVER feel the same way about your wife again.
2. You will NEVER fully trust your wife again.
3. Your wife is very likely to cheat again sometime in the future.
4. Your wife put your health (and life) at risk ( STDs including HIV / AIDS).
5. IMPORTANT - Your wife will never fully respect you if you stay with her. She will never admit it but inside she will view you as being weak. She had sex with another man and you still stayed around because you were too weak to leave. This really is how women think...........

You can read all of the "self-help" books on the market ten times over, or spend the next 5 years in counseling with your cheater/wife, but that will not change the five facts listed above. They are basic truths.

I recommend the scorched earth approach:
1. File for divorce. Yes that's right - D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Quietly contact a good divorce attorney, prepare, follow his or her instructions, and end your marriage. You have no children, take the financial hit and move on with your life. There is no sense staying with this woman / cheater.
2. Inform the wife of the coworker she had sex with. Do all you can within the law to ensure his marriage is also destroyed.

Your wife has shown you a complete lack of respect - for that leave a path of marital destruction in your wake on your journey to living single and free.

Always Obey the Law. Get Out of this marriage.


----------



## lordmayhem

Unremorseful WW indicates she is still in the A. That means she is still f*cking the OM. 

EXPOSE! EXPOSE! EXPOSE! Find the OM's betrayed wife and expose the A to her. Watch how fast OM throws your WW under the bus to try and save his marriage. Expose the A to the HR where she works. And she is going to have to change jobs so she can go NC forever with the OM. These workplace As are so difficult because they see each other all the time. If she doesnt want to change jobs, then you can see how very little she values the marriage. You will probably have to let her go. Then you have to do the PI thing, like the keylogger, the GPS, the VAR, - IF you want to R. If not, then lawyer up and proceed to D.

She decideds to go f*ck the OM just because you told her not to drink and drive? What kind of stupid sh!t is that?


----------



## jnj express

Before---you do anything else---you need to find out if she had unprotected sex-----if so---then YOU NEED TO GET TESTED FOR ALL STD's

Like it or not this must be forced from her, your health/life, can be at risk----No one really knows anything about her lover, probably least of all your wife---she for whatever reason had an A. with him, but I doubt if she REALLY knows much about him

Do not trust anything your wife says at this point----remember for the last 3 and half months she has come home to you night after night, looked you right in the eyes, and said everything was fine---some of those nights, she said things were fine after coming from his bed---she is decietful, and conniver, a manipulator, and a liar----remember she had to plan and decieve you to carry on her tryst

Actually this could be the tip of an iceberg----can you really say for sure, that she has not had other lovers----this time, she could have taken her dirty dark little secret to her grave and you would have never known

What ever you do treat this very hard, this is not to be lightly swept under the table---she has murdered your mge., stomped on your heart, "dissed' you, taken away your carefree life, destroyed your peace of mind---she has set loose your sub-conscious, which will eat at you every day for a long time, if not for the rest of your life

Whatever you do now, your wife can't just think she has done nothing, and get on with her life as if nothing happened----the murder of your soul, has happened!!!!!!!


----------



## Infidelity Rage

Yikes...some of these replies are harsh...I like it. LOL

Anyway, yeah, this situation sucks bad for you. I don't believe you should hit the lawyer up as quickly as one responder has said. Making decisions in the heat of the moment are usually not the best decisions to make. You did good sending her to a hotel (although I wonder if she invited her **** over there)... You need time to yourself to think and process what just happened - you've been run over by a mack truck.

My advice is to take care of yourself and watch her actions. If she isn't really concerned about you contemplating ending the marriage, it may be time to prepare yourself for the end. I'm so sorry...I am the wife whose husband cheated on her and I just have to shake my head at the wives who cheat - what the hell is wrong with people? Ugh... Good luck I hate this for you and everyone else.

Infidelity Rage


----------



## Whip Morgan

CJ, its possible that she never wanted to tell you, but someone from work or family may have discovered her affair and threatened to tell you. I'm not entirely buying this confession from realizing how much you meant to her from family interaction.

Before this goes on much further, you have to figure out if you want to stay married. Hopefully some time apart already has helped to clear your mind about that, find an answer.

If you do:
She leaves her job. NC with this dude. If she balks at leaving (we need the money! Its my career! etc.) well she should have thought about that before she had an affair. If she doesnt want to leave, then you have your answer about possibly saving the marriage - she wont.

Open access to all email accounts, Facebook if she has it, phones. No exceptions. And I would definitely put a VAR in the car. I think that is what White Rabbit used to finally get the truth. 

Have her inform her parents, then yours. Normally exposure is used by the betrayed spouse when the disloyal spouse hasnt broken the affair, and in can make things rougher for recovery. I dont feel good about this affair being entirely over. Have her do it, and be there. If you guys seperate down the road, by her informing the families, she cant backtrack and lie.

Have her inform OMs wife. This is a definite must. I am in favor the cheaters doing this, but as long as the OMs wife is informed, that is most important. This could help monitor the affair to ensure its over (should you choose to stay)

Serious counseling, both marriage and individual. Being proud about saying "no more sex outside marriage" is definitely a red flag that she is still in a serious fog about this whole thing, like she didnt do anything wrong. Which leads me to believe she isnt seriously remorseful for hurting you. Reconciling can only truly begin when the cheater is genuinely sorry for what he/she has done. If your wife doesnt do any of the above things, in my opinon, she isnt genuine about this.

Of course, you dont have to stay married. There are reconciling stories on this board, but also a few stories of divorces that enabled the healing. Morituri said it best: personal healing has to come first. Then, if you choose to stay, heal the marriage.


----------



## morituri

Your wife's strange behavior maybe a sign that she was looking for a reaction from you rather than a true desire on her part to be honest with you.

Her BS reason for choosing to betray you knowing full well your family history borders on laughable. I also believe that this affair may not be her first.

I don't see a remorseful woman who is hurting for betraying her husband. I see a narcissistic woman who wants a one sided open marriage. Don't believe her "no more sex outside the marriage" for one second. She's likely got another BS reason to justify getting pounded by the OM - or possibly another man - at her hotel room as we speak.

The woman you know as your wife is broken. Lawyer up.


----------



## morituri

Your wife's strange behavior maybe a sign that she was looking for a reaction from you rather than a true desire on her part to be honest with you.

Her BS reason for choosing to betray you knowing full well your family history borders on laughable. I also believe that this affair may not be her first.

I don't see a remorseful woman who is hurting for betraying her husband. I see a narcissistic woman who wants a one sided open marriage. Don't believe her "no more sex outside the marriage" for one second. She's likely got another BS reason to justify getting pounded by the OM - or possibly another man - at her hotel room as we speak.

The woman you know as your wife is broken. Lawyer up.


----------



## Sparkles422

Tell you what I did when I learned about the EA stbxh was having. 
I went down to non lawyer solutions and started the ball rolling.

I knew the following:
The trust would never never return
The betrayal was too harmful
The attraction I had felt had died

My divorce is 7/19 (this started in March of this year when I made discovery). I even went down to the courthouse to ask for the date and they pushed it through.

I have an inhouse divorce til the house sells and it is going to be just okay. I lined up the support necessary when the pain was suicidally strong and went crazy reading, sharing, IC and group therapies. I will not sit in this crap, I want to get on with my life asap. Did I feel pain? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in so much pain I would gladly have ripped my skin off to relieve the mental anguish.

Going on five months later, no I am keeping my skin where it is and I am beginning to look around. I am coming alive. Thank you God.


----------



## cj9947

Thank you all for your valuable insights and thoughts. I so appreciate the feedback and will digest it all over the next couple of days. I spoke with her again today for about one hour. It was all I could handle without getting overwhelmed.

I learned today from my wife of 17 years;

1) The sex was unprotected. I will be arranging an STD test this week.
2) "Getting Caught" was the only consideration for stopping. Not guilt, not remorse, not anything...
3) The sex was at work, in a hotel and in a restaurant. I had no inkling about this side of her. She has always been modest with me.
4) She said that their relationship had no negative effect on our marriage or how she treated me. She felt as though she kept the two separate. Wowza......
5) She shared very personal information of mine with him.

I had to stop the conversation there. It was a bit much to think of at one time.


----------



## morituri

After my last post, I was hoping that I was dead wrong about my judgment of her character but reading your latest update I am sad to say that I was right.

So she said that getting caught was her only concern? No show of remorse for having committed one of the most hurtful and devastating acts that one spouse can do to the other?

I know you have quite a lot to emotionally process. We're going to be here for you when you decide to return.


----------



## Whip Morgan

CJ,

Good call ending the conversation, its good to know limits. That much emotional turmoil could lead to something happening that you could regret. 

So, she has no remorse over what she has done. That puts a serious wrench in the reconciliation machinery. Meaning that to me, it looks impossible as things stand now. It can only happen when a spouse truly regrets her actions out of love for the other and the vows he/she has broken. Lots of stories of false recoveries on TAM.

However, lets say she does want to reconcile, and you do detect that she is genuine in trying...

She needs to leave her job. Since your DDay was in June, she has not left, I'm assuming. That means contact between them is likely. 

MC and IC. She probably has some serious personal issues to work through.

Inform eachothers family and OMs wife. Like I said early, informing family is not what some people prefer to do. I think it would be beneficial here, to help keep her honest in recovery. If you decide to divorce, informing family will also keep her honest. Hopefully. If you decide to expose, have her do it. And be there! Dont let her spin any of it!

Of course, this all depends on what you want - to try or divorce. Its tough, because it doesnt appear that she has any remorse over hurting you.


----------



## the guy

If your thinking about working it out, then is she willing to do the heavy lifting? Like, quit her job, change cell #, account for her were abouts every minute of the day, is she willing to turn over her self commpletely, giving you complete control?

Thats the thing here, they all want to work it out but ask them to give up there privacy...well they can't have none of that.

For me, my cheating wife checks in all the time, turns in her reciepts, time card, and I have all her password, she is even tracked with GPS.

The point is that is some heavy crap my cheating wife has to put up with in order to stay. is your wife willing to make those kind of sacrifices? That the thing here any walls your wife puts up will only make it worse. Is it really worth it to her to do the things to help you heal

Maybe you want to heal your self? If your thinking about bailing then it should be easy enough, especialy with no kids. 

This **** ain't easy no matter witch way you go, your going to be f*cked but the good news it doesn't last. My marriage is alot healthier. I'm no longer an emotional retard and I no longer have a cheating wife. In my case, me and my cheating wife both had very unhealthy behaviors, so this new marriage we're both in is working. I mean, we are are both good characters, but we both had bad behaviors. we did things to each other that no spouse should put up with. Back in the day I pushed my cheating wife away,but she kept coming back, I could go on with how bad we treated each other, but my point is there are reasons for staying and there are reasons for leaving.

In your case you may have been a good/ great husband, but just married a person with a bad character. I mean why else would she step out?

One more thing if your planning on keeping her have her take a poly to see if this was the only time.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> 1) The sex was unprotected. I will be arranging an STD test this week.


Send her for a STD check as well , she needs to be shamed , go with her and check the results yourself. 




> 2) "Getting Caught" was the only consideration for stopping. Not guilt, not remorse, not anything...


Expose to her parents , yours, the OM's wife, and do not hesitate to expose this to the HR department at work, she must leave her job, no discussion. 




> 3) The sex was at work, in a hotel and in a restaurant. I had no inkling about this side of her. She has always been modest with me.


Ask her to write down why she did these things , writing helps her think and limits her opportunity to lie. Insist on the whole truth , who paid , how much is cost, where , when what they did. Who else knows of her affair, friends , family etc. Even if you choose not to read the notes do not let her off the hook. Total radical honest is what is required from her. 



> 4) She said that their relationship had no negative effect on our marriage or how she treated me. She felt as though she kept the two separate. Wowza......


Lies, she is covering her arse, she was in a fantasy and was living the joy of it, let her know that your whole marriage is now a lie and everything that happened or that she said to you was a lie. Inform her that you will accept nothing less that total honesty. 

Normally woman in such affair fall in love and use the L word with the OM, it is part of the fantasy. Find out why she came clean. There has to be more than guilt something was said or happened. 




> 5) She shared very personal information of mine with him.


Not only do you want to know what she said , you want to now what he said, let the OM's wife know what the OM said. Affair folk have a habit of saying derogatory things about their spouses, it is part of their internalisation of why they must have an affair. 

If at all in doubt arrange a polygraph .

Your marriage can only heal if she gives her everything to you and evidences daily that the affair is over, she is in no contact and that she lives you and you only.

Giving her these messages ensures she knows where you stand. Do not dilute this.

Get her out of that job now, as there is still contact the script says this will go underground or is on a temporary hold due to a threat of exposure to you by someone else.


----------



## jnj express

If she can compartmentalize that easily---she is pretty much a cold, unfeeling woman

Don't ever accept her telling you she loves you------one cannot love another, if they can do what she did to you, and think it has no affect

What does she think you are just a unthinking robot---that you have no soul, heart, or feelings

If she is this cold and calculating be very careful, in deciding whether you wanna spend the rest of your life with the cold heartless woman your wife has become------the word SELFISH comes to mind in describing her also!!!!!


----------



## lordmayhem

Trickle Truth reasoning says if she admitted to a 3 and a half month affair, then the reality is it was probably 2 or 3 times longer than that.

In a few instances, there are those cheaters who really can compartmentalize their affair life from their married life. They are either psychopaths, or they are experienced at it. Something tells me that this is NOT the first time she has done this, that maybe she is a serial cheater and has learned to compartmentalize through experience. Add the fact that the two of you have no children together, so she has plenty of free time to indulge in affairs and learn to keep them secret. That's my theory anyway.

Seeing how affairs are so addictive and she apparently confessed after supposedly ONLY after 3 and a half months, leads me to believe their was outside pressure for her to admit it. It's possible the OMW found out about the affair and was threatening exposure, or maybe someone else caught her. That's why you need to contact the OMW, she may possibly have more information than you have.

Having sex at work, at a hotel, and in a restaurant isn't surprising. They will do it anywhere if his or her place isnt available. Thats why I notice how some BSs cant comprehend how the WS had time or the chance to have affair sex and believe their WS when the WS claims it was an EA only. If they are coworkers, they can do it in a vehicle or parking lot, or a break room, or even a closet or like on the desk like George Costanza on Seinfeld. This is why if they are coworkers, one of them has to change jobs. If my WWs affair partner was a coworker, she would be changing jobs, no ifs and buts about it.


----------



## Gabriel

Reading this makes me so freaking angry. I am dying to hear that you manned up and told the OM's wife, told your wife's family. Read up on the 180 NOW, and institute it HARD. No Plan A - your wife deserves no love from you right now. She is rubbing this in your face and waiting for you to be a man about it. Show her. If you meekly take this, she will sit there and be smug and confident and realize how weak you are. You need a full on assault. Don't keep "processing" this. Take action NOW and do the above!


----------



## Dowjones

9947, the first thing you MUST do is to realize that your marriage as you knew it is over, and that from now on, you should put yourself first in everything you do. Do not even consider her wants or needs, because she never considered yours. Get tested for STD's, then take all the time you need to decide if you want to keep her or not, then TELL her what you need, don't ask, don't tell her you love her, show her no kindness, until your conditions are met.


----------



## jnj express

Just exactly where and how did they have sex in a restaurant---the only place that would give them privacy is either of the restrooms----if anywhere else, it had to be somewhat public----is your wife that callous, that she would have sex, in the open where others could watch----just going out with the OM, to a public restaurant is bad enuff------Sad to say, she really did have you blind-sided---she is out in public with this guy, and you knew nothing-------she is a master at deception, and lying---do not believe anything she says


----------



## cj9947

Thanks again for you inputs. I have read the 180 plan and began implementing it today. I am glad it was pointed out to me. I would have probably made some mistakes if I had not read it.

My wife informed me today that she wants to do what ever it takes to save the marriage. She said she began counseling last week. It was actually her therapist who was behind her strange statement about now being faithful during marriage.

She shared the following information with me today;

1) The affair began the very week I approached her with a serious medical issue. I was about to undertake some medical tests and procedures and was scared. Like most men, I always kept my Dr.'s visits quiet and to myself. I told her that day that I needed her. It was the first time I ever told anyone that I needed them. She also did something I still can't make sense of. That very week they started the affair she gave me a couples book, "Getting the love you want." by Harville Hendrix. I so felt like I was in the Twilight Zone I could not even ask her to explain this.
2) No gifts, no cards, no flowers, no vacations, no I Love Yous and etc. that I did had any affect on her decision to start the affair or stop it.
3) The reason for no condoms was that it is the guys responsibility, alcohol and he told her he gets two blood tests a year for an insurance policy.
4) She said that one of the reasons for the affair was anger she was feeling towards me. I just could not relate to "anger" being the reason to do something like this so I asked her if she could elaborate a little bit about what specifically she meant by "anger". Well, for the next 10 minutes she slowly released an angry/hateful tirade on me like I have never experienced in my life. She yelled, hollered, swore and wagged her finger at me like a drill sergeant. I was shell shocked when she was done. I could not say one word. It made me feel bad about myself. How could I be so close to someone on one hand and so far apart on the other?

I chose not to debate/argue any of her points because some seemed so hard to believe. At times I felt as though I was getting the truth on one hand but at other times I just could not believe she could believe herself what she was telling me...


----------



## the guy

cj,
Again if she is willing to do what ever it takes, remind her that her privacy is gone, her freedom is gone, she is imprisoned with the sole purpose but to reconnect with you.

Let her know that a polygraph test is a most and a GPS will be attached to her cell and auto.

Watch and see how that statement will chage to "all most anything"


----------



## F-102

Part of me suspects that the OM got caught, his W threatened to expose the A, and she told you to cover her ass. It sounds like she is telling you what you want to hear so that you don't abruptly leave, then she can have some stability of home life while she plans a NEW exit strategy, because Plan A didn't work out.

I think you're getting snowed-sounds like this one-sided marriage is over.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your wife is still in the affair even if it is in her heart. Nowhere have you told us you exposed this, her tirade against you is normal for affair people and is part of her blame shifting. 

Are you going to expose this ??????


----------



## ahhhmaaaan!

I just read your latest post... NO [email protected]#ING WAY I WOULD TAKE HER BACK. She bailed on you when you needed her the most, bro. The I agree that OM might have been caught and now she's in damage control mode. Dude, your marriage is over, in my opinion. She's just biding her time till she finds someone else, or starts-up with this guy once it all cools down again- SORRY.

Ask her to quit... that will tell you everything you need to know about HER committment to you and the marriage.


----------



## morituri

Even my ex-wife did not do to me what your wife did of spewing vile hatred in your face. 

Your wife needs to be institutionalized and you my friend need to divorce her ASAP.


----------



## Tourchwood

I'm 100% agree with Ahhhhmaaan! (Sorry if I missed an H or A)


----------



## lordmayhem

Yet another part of the cheater's script: The blame shifting. I hate it when they do that. The cheater tries to play the victim to justify the cheating.

From the outside looking in, since you have no kids with her, I would be kicking her @ss to the curb. She's f*cking other men already, so she's looking to get out of the marriage. She says she will do anything to save the marriage. Ok, but do you think she can do the heavy lifting to save it? I think she's biding her time until OM can leave his BW, or until she finds someone new.

It's up to you. If you want to try for Reconciliation (R), then thats fine, at least you can say you gave it a shot. Remember, R is a precious gift given by the betrayed spouse (you) only after the WS has done the heavy lifting to repair the marriage. This is the heavy lifting and the requirements you should put into place for her to have any shot at R with you. At the end of the day, if you cannot accept what she has done to you, you have the right to walk away and not R. At the very minimum, you should have these requirements:

1. Write a NC letter to the OM, stating that she is wrong, and is never to contact OM ever again and OM should never contact her.
2. She should go NC with OM forever. Any "fishing" between either of them, is a deal breaker. If OM contacts her and she does not immediately report it to you, this is breaking NC. This is a lie of omission. Fishing is a term used when one of the affair partners (AP) attempts to contact the other to renew the affair. It can be something as simple as "How are you?" "Just wanted to see what you were doing" "Wanted to see if you were ok", etc, etc,.
3. Since she works with the OM and had On-The-Job affair sex with this scumbag, she needs to quit her job there immediately and find a job somewhere else.
4. Complete Transparency. If she is truly remorseful and is willing to do anything to save the marriage and regain your trust, then she will WILLINGLY hand over every and all passwords to phones, social networking sites, email, etc. EVERYTHING. This is how trust is rebuilt. If she is being "forced" to, then its not going to work. She must also be accountable for her physical whereabouts. 
5. Get tested for STDs.
6. MC or IC as needed. 
7. Be emapthetic to your needs and the things that will trigger you. Believe me, you will have triggers for years.

Look at this table that Fighting2Survive at SI made regarding Remorse and Rugsweeping. Remorse is a pillar for R. Rugsweeping is when the WS wants to simply move on. If you EVER get the statement from her that she feels you are taking too long to heal and that you need to just get over it, then she is just trying to sweep this under the rug. You will NEVER heal if she does this. 










Just be aware R is a long process, it takes on average 2-5 years to heal from a betrayal of this magnitude. Just about everything will depend on her effort to help you heal and repair the marriage. 

OR it may be better for you to simply walk away. R is not for everyone, and not every marriage can be saved. What you do deserve is a wife who will be faithful to you and not simply throw out her marital vows when she feels like it.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

She is trying to blame you for her own selfish choices and she is doing a poor job of it. She is just pulling things out of a hat to try to make it your fault.

She did this because she wanted to and didn’t respect you. Until she admits that she is still in a fog. People that have affairs don’t want to see themselves as bad people so they blame-shift to justify themselves. They are in denial. 

She is very narcissistic right now and odds are the affair will flare back up later. You have to tell the OM’s W to keep him distracted and let your W stew for a while on her own so she can self-reflect. When she starts admitting she did it because she was selfish and that it wasn’t your fault then you can talk to her.

That being said you should look into cutting your losses and leave. Odds are the A would end up starting up again later.


----------



## cj9947

I will always be appreciative of this message board and the people on it. Your advice and input have helped me immensely and kept me grounded. Otherwise, I feel like Neo in the "Matrix" at times. After talking with her at times up is down, true is false, hurt is love and illusion is reality. 

In my head and heart this marriage is over. I am someone who always tries to do right and this marriage does not feel right. I am not interested in marriage counseling or 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or what ever "try" it is. I am partly just stunned how one minute you are living one life and after a two minute stupid conversation you are living and unexpected life. I deeply, deeply, regret the time I have wasted with her.

1) I will be contacting the OM wife's because of the STD issue. Strange coincidence is that the OM and his family left for a three week vacation the very next day after telling me the night before. It is just another example of how cannot I believe her. It seems awful convenient.
2) I will not be doing anything that prevents them from being together. Her quitting her job, telling her family, gps, etc ..I will not be doing. Anything I can do to help these two end up together will make me happy. They deserve each other. Two cheaters.... 
3) Her therapist told her to come clean with past mistakes. She said she wants to talk to me about it tonight. I've decided I need to hear the truth but I am not interested in hearing tonight. I am going to take an overnight mountain biking trip. I need a little break from "Alice in Wonderland".
4) Last night while I was on the computer I realized all the emails, IMs, photos and voice mails from her. It is amazing how all this stuff tells of a wonderful marriage yet the truth is otherwise. On the day she had the affair at the hotel. She left me a very loving voice mail 30 minutes before they "Did It" and then I got another loving voice mail shortly after they went to dinner to commemorated their deed. She called me before and after the sex and left me loving voice mails. CAN ANYONE MAKE SENSE OF THAT FOR ME?


----------



## ahhhmaaaan!

"On the day she had the affair at the hotel. She left me a very loving voice mail 30 minutes before they "Did It" and then I got another loving voice mail shortly after they went to dinner to commemorated their deed. She called me before and after the sex and left me loving voice mails. CAN ANYONE MAKE SENSE OF THAT FOR ME?"- She's a [email protected]#ING PSYCHO!

I can guarantee you that this affair isn't over by a long shot. By the way you tell it, they're in a cooling-off period... waiting till the time is right to continue. You need to expose it. I really believe that she came clean in order to deter you from exposing them.


----------



## lordmayhem

I'm sorry that this could be a deal breaker for you. You don't have to attempt R if you don't want to. I'm sure you don't want to be continually looking over your shoulder to see if she's with the OM or yet another OM. And then there's the triggers. Everyone one has their own personal deal breaker.



cj9947 said:


> 4) Last night while I was on the computer I realized all the emails, IMs, photos and voice mails from her. It is amazing how all this stuff tells of a wonderful marriage yet the truth is otherwise. On the day she had the affair at the hotel. She left me a very loving voice mail 30 minutes before they "Did It" and then I got another loving voice mail shortly after they went to dinner to commemorated their deed. She called me before and after the sex and left me loving voice mails. CAN ANYONE MAKE SENSE OF THAT FOR ME?


Yes, she's compensating for the guilt that she feels. This isn't uncommon at all. Some cheating men will give their wives jewelry even, otherwise known and guilt gifts. *While some others are able to totally compartmentalize their affair life from their married life*, especially the ones who have done this before and gotten away with it. Not sure which category your WW falls into.


----------



## Gabriel

Hard 180 is the way to go. I would let her tell you the whole truth - you've already decided to end the marriage, it seems. Since you have checked out, I would advertise that you've checked out. She sounds cold and crazy. 

Once she's told you, and it will be bad, show no emotion. Thank her for telling you, and tell her you are finding a lawyer. Have her sleep on the couch. And hell yes, expose this thing to the OM's wife/family. Then let's see how much fun this b*tch has. She'll likely lose both men and have the scarlet letter to boot.

Really sorry you are here, man.


----------



## the guy

In some strange way it makes her sleep better at night. "I'll have sex and as long as I treat my H with loving words its all good".

IDK man it just seems like the script would tell her to start a fight treat you like crap and justiy her actions when you get pissed for her treating you bad.

I don't get it either, maybe "if I'm sweet enough he won't suspect anything".

Who knows what goes on in the though process of a criminal mind. I do know one thing deciet is #1 on the aganda. "Throw em off gaurd so they can't figure out I'm getting laid"


----------



## jnj express

The thing I would wonder about is---why did your wife tell you????--She was clean as far as you knowing

You never knew a thing---she could have taken this secret to her grave with her---why did she tell you

Another thing, do not ever believe her about anything---it is painfully obvious that she is a MASTER liar, and well schooled at deceit

Reason she called was to keep things as normal as possible, to NOT get you suspicious, if she previously had a pattern of calling while she was away on business---and probably to assuage her feelings of guilt---tho that is a weird way of showing love by spreading her legs for another

If you are gonna D---then make sure she keeps her job---you don't wanna pay alimony


----------



## jnj express

His wife telling him has me really curious---she didn't have to tell---she was away clean with this A.

I put this out to everyone---DO YOU THING MAYBE THIS WAS AN EXIT A. on the wife's part

She didn't sound like she was very bothered emotionally by what she had done to her H., specially when he described her reactions of D-Day when she "outed" herself


----------



## lordmayhem

I think the OMW probably told her to inform her husband or else she would. Like he said, the OM took his family on a 3 week vacation immediately afterwards. We'll probably find out more as time goes by. 

Either way, since cj9947 indicates that this is a deal breaker for him, it probably doesnt matter anymore. His WW will soon find out that the grass isnt greener on the other side of the fence.


----------



## cj9947

Had a great mountain biking ride yesterday. Fresh air, exercise and a night away from home really clears the head. I decided to start a journal about my experience to help me keep track of the facts so that she does not try to snowball me later about what has happened.

The way it stands today, I am done with marriage. Not just this marriage but marriage for all time. I have an STD test scheduled, a lawyers visit scheduled and next Tuesday I will inform the OMW for her personal STD safety.

Today when I got home from my overnight trip I found a sheet with a list of supposedly all my wife's past indiscretions. Probably inspired by her therapist. After reading it, I believe she had to leave it to me to read alone. It would have probably been impossible for her to read this to my face right out of the gate.

*Pre-Marriage (we dated 5 years)* - Kissed and held hands with 6 different guys. These occurred at work or out dancing with girlfriends. 

While we were discussing our engagement plans she had sex twice with a coworker at the time. The BIZARRE thing about this is that he had a very unusual name and six months after we were married we were supposed to meet him for lunch. He canceled at the last minute. I wonder why? WHY WOULD A WOMEN ATTEMPT TO BRING HER NEW HUSBAND TO MEET THE GUY SHE FOOLED AROUND WITH WHILE THEY WERE ENGAGED?????????????????????????????????????????????????? I just do not get IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*During Marriage (17 years)* - 15 months after we married she kissed a guy who was a friend of a friend. He had been over the house to play cards several times. He was so startled by her advance he asked her, "What about your husband?" To which she replied, "The magic is gone." 

Three years after we were married she met a coworker for dinner at a fancy hotel while I was out of town on business. She said they chatted, ate and went for a stroll on the beach but nothing happened. IS THAT REALLY BELIEVABLE OR POSSIBLE?

She flirted and squeezed a guys knee at a conference but nothing happened.

The day before our 15th anniversary trip she privately hugged a coworker goodbye in a parking garage and then the following Monday when she got back to work they went to lunch at the beach. But nothing happened...Really?

Put her head on a guy's shoulder at a party and told him he was special. She also said to him, "Another time...another place..too bad."

There was a bunch of other smaller crap like secret emails while we were on vacation and stuff....I think she was detailed because she knows if I were interested in saving the marriage I would follow up on this stuff. I am not interested...that's more than enough info.

I would like to note that some have asked follow up questions to why certain things happened or not and I have not provided any feedback yet. The reason is that I really have not been in a state of mind for follow up questions. I am just letting her talk away and absorbing it. When I woke up this morning I remembered an example of something she said that just floored me. She said they had sex five times and neither of them had one single orgasm. IS THAT FREAKING POSSIBLE?

Thanks for listening it really does help keep me grounded knowing that there are like reasonable people out there.


----------



## Numb-badger

cj9947 said:


> The reason is that I really have not been in a state of mind for follow up questions. I am just letting her talk away and absorbing it.


That is significant progress, probably more important than you realise.
Keep up the bike rides and keep working on you mate, you seem to be doing really well.

Best wishes

N-B


----------



## Gabriel

Okay, I have several questions.

1) Which one of you was more ready to get married, her or you? Usually one pushes for it before the other. Which was it in your case?

2) Why did her list of indiscretions not include the current affair? Or are you just leaving that out?

3) If you think back to those times, can you sense a distance from your wife? I know this all seems out of the blue but if you really think about it, were there moments where things just weren't quite the same?

4) Did I hear right that she wants to work on the marriage? If so, what is her status with the OM?

5) Also, the current A and some of the pre-dating stuff happened at work. Same job, or different jobs?

Now a comment. It sounds like she was really never a marriage person. She got married because you were the stable presence in her life at the time and it seemed like the right thing to do. But really, to me, it sounds like her heart was never really in it. Many kisses and hand holdings while you dated. The magic was gone just 15 months into the marriage. That tells me there really never was any "magic". You were just the one that was there at the time. She's getting her short term doses of "magic" elsewhere. 

Some people just shouldn't get married. The tragedy in this is that she hurt someone really badly by doing so. It's not fair.


----------



## morituri

> She said they had sex five times and neither of them had one single orgasm. IS THAT FREAKING POSSIBLE?


Anything is possible. I believe you mentioned that the OM was pudgy (fat) so it's possible that he had trouble performing (ED) and left your wife wanting and frustrated. Which begs the question, what did your wife find so attractive about the OM that she would choose to have sex with him and destroy her marriage?


----------



## cj9947

Gabriel said:


> Okay, I have several questions.
> 
> 1) Which one of you was more ready to get married, her or you? Usually one pushes for it before the other. Which was it in your case?
> 
> 2) Why did her list of indiscretions not include the current affair? Or are you just leaving that out?
> 
> 3) If you think back to those times, can you sense a distance from your wife? I know this all seems out of the blue but if you really think about it, were there moments where things just weren't quite the same?
> 
> 4) Did I hear right that she wants to work on the marriage? If so, what is her status with the OM?
> 
> 5) Also, the current A and some of the pre-dating stuff happened at work. Same job, or different jobs?
> 
> Now a comment. It sounds like she was really never a marriage person. She got married because you were the stable presence in her life at the time and it seemed like the right thing to do. But really, to me, it sounds like her heart was never really in it. Many kisses and hand holdings while you dated. The magic was gone just 15 months into the marriage. That tells me there really never was any "magic". You were just the one that was there at the time. She's getting her short term doses of "magic" elsewhere.
> 
> Some people just shouldn't get married. The tragedy in this is that she hurt someone really badly by doing so. It's not fair.



1) Gosh, you raise an excellent point. When people ask us about how we got married and stuff I always teased that I had to finally propose because she never ever ever raised the issue. She would say things like, "I knew when the time was right he would ask." But looking back she never talked about it once. Wowza...how did I miss that one?

2) It was me who left it out.

3) You know there were times she would go out allot with girlfriends and leave me alone. Sometimes I did wonder if she didn't worry about me chasing other women because of my background and character or maybe now when I think about it she really did not care. Sad......

4) Yes she does want to work on it. She sent me texts last night that I did not respond to indicating the horrible mistake she now realizes she made. She said she is going to cook me supper tonight. That would be a first in years. She does not mention the OM and her feelings and thoughts about him. I have taken that as a very bad sign. I have not directly asked because I do not want to steer her in a particular direction. I would prefer the natural truth play out.

5) All occurred at different jobs except the garage hug and affair.

"The magic was gone just 15 months into the marriage. That tells me there really never was any "magic". You were just the one that was there at the time. She's getting her short term doses of "magic" elsewhere." - I must say that the truth does hurt. Thank you though for your perspective.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Based on what she stated in her writings she has been in affair mode your entire relationship!!! Now after a few sessions with a therapist she has a light bulb moment? Be very careful :scratchhead: Don't let your hopes blide reality. Find out who she really is first....not who you thought/hoped she was.


----------



## jnj express

So now the question becomes what does your wife want---but more importantly what do YOU want

Can you live out your days with her, knowing what she really is, and what she has done to you thruout your mge

Why does she now all of a sudden "get it"---IS IT CUZ SHE REALLY, TRULY LOVES YOU, AND WANTS TO MAKE A LIFE WITH YOU----DOES ONE WHO TRULY LOVES SOMEONE CHEAT ON THEM

Or is it cuz reality has set in on her, and she is facing, IF YOU LEAVE,---a life alone, as a single, divorced woman, who was left cuz she cheated on her husband----do you really think she wants to be responsible for everything by herself---all those things that the 2 of you took care of together, she will now have to cover by herself---working maybe multiple jobs, to make ends meet, and pay bills, and cover insurance, if she can even find work these days----also---what is she facing in the way of guys out there---there is no one like you---there may be nice guys out there, but they don't mesh with her as you did---and the older she gets, the decent guys get fewer and fewer---sure she can find sex---but with whom, scumbags, lowlifes, bums, womanizers-----

Think long and hard about why she is all of a sudden cooking you dinner for the 1st time in years


----------



## ahhhmaaaan!

She constantly flirted with guys througout your marriage... I know I couldn't possibly take her back, but its your decision. Good Luck.


----------



## F-102

We're in your corner, CJ!


----------



## Gabriel

Totally in your corner.

:iagree:

Sorry the truth hurts. It just hit me that this woman isn't cut out for marriage, and never was. That's was prompted me to come to the conclusion I suspected, which was 1) it was your idea to get married, and 2) you were the stable person in her life at the time it was "expected" people get married.

You are on the right track of not pushing for her to come back, to let it play out. I would even take it further and turn a very cold shoulder. I wouldn't even accept the dinner she was making. Say you got invited to go out to dinner with a friend, and leave, even if that means you sit in a Wendy's by yourself.

Show her you have some self respect and don't need her kindness anymore.

If you do this, one of two things are going to happen. She will quickly bail and stop trying, or she will chase you. I think you know what each of these means.


----------



## cj9947

I went for my STD testing today...things were a bit backed up so I had to wait 2.5 hours even though I had an appointment. As I sat there waiting I had time to reflect on the affair and how insensitive my wife and the OM were to my well being and his wife's well being. It was really sobering. Just to think in the year 2011 my wife would have no concerns over unprotected sex and STDs. The only thing I can think of is that people just do not think it can or will happened to them. I will now keep my fingers crossed and wait for the results......

I spoke to a friend last night who went through a divorce ten years ago. He came home and caught his wife in bed with another women. Her famous words to him as he walked in on them were, "I'm gay." Because there was no possibility of reconciliation she agreed to have an amicable divorce with him and not give all their money to lawyers. He told me the web site to get the forms and instructions. It's only two brief pages. When see finally realizes the reality of our future I will present it to her.

By the way, she did cook me supper last night. I did not have the heart to tell her it was terrible. She is very rusty in the kitchen. The dinner was another situation that put things in perspective. She could cheat on me with unprotected sex yet I did not desire to hurt her feelings over a meal. We really were living in two different worlds. 

She spoke briefly last night about the affair situation. She said another thing that made my jaw drop that I had to respond to. She said to me that if I had ever directly asked her if she was having an affair she would have told me the truth and stopped immediately. I said, "who the hell goes around randomly asking their spouse, "Are you cheating on me?" She got a goofy look on her face and replied, "Good point."

By the way, I have downloaded the two voice mails she left me before and after she cheated me at the hotel. If anyone knows a way to post them let me know.


----------



## morituri

truevoicemail?


----------



## jnj express

So what was it---she wanted to get caught

Maybe she really does want this mge---tho she has funny ways of showing it----but then again, question to you---prior to the A, would you have taken her seriously, if she came to you with problems----for you do take her seriously now

Too bad she couldn't force you to give her what she needed prior to cheating----cuz the cheating no matter what is the dealbreaker---if you decide to D

How is she handling, her remorse, is she doing any heavy lifting to try to get this mge to work.


----------



## ahhhmaaaan!

" I did not have the heart to tell her it was terrible."- You actually ate the meal she made? Dude... Sometimes I just don't get it. How could you even stand eating that slop she made you. MY GOD! 

"who the hell goes around randomly asking their spouse, "Are you cheating on me?" She got a goofy look on her face and replied, "Good point."- WTF?!?! I mean... are you [email protected] serious. This woman needs some serious evaluation done. What's wrong with people these days?


----------



## cj9947

jnj express said:


> So what was it---she wanted to get caught
> 
> Maybe she really does want this mge---tho she has funny ways of showing it----but then again, question to you---prior to the A, would you have taken her seriously, if she came to you with problems----for you do take her seriously now
> 
> Too bad she couldn't force you to give her what she needed prior to cheating----cuz the cheating no matter what is the dealbreaker---if you decide to D
> 
> How is she handling, her remorse, is she doing any heavy lifting to try to get this mge to work.



1) "prior to the A, would you have taken her seriously, if she came to you with problems" - 100% certainty I would have taken her seriously and helped her.

2) "How is she handling, her remorse, is she doing any heavy lifting to try to get this mge to work." - Her heavy lifting currently involves "no sex outside of marriage" and pride in voluntarily telling me. I think her mind set is to do enough to placate me but she doesn't realize I am not interested in getting her to change her ways. She can stay the course as far as I am concerned.


----------



## cj9947

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> " I did not have the heart to tell her it was terrible."- You actually ate the meal she made? Dude... Sometimes I just don't get it. How could you even stand eating that slop she made you. MY GOD!
> 
> "who the hell goes around randomly asking their spouse, "Are you cheating on me?" She got a goofy look on her face and replied, "Good point."- WTF?!?! I mean... are you [email protected] serious. This woman needs some serious evaluation done. What's wrong with people these days?


1) "How could you even stand eating that slop she made you. MY GOD!" - You make a good point. I guess my only defense is that this has been a surreal experience for me. I probably should hire a taste tester until this is resolved.


----------



## morituri

Evaluation needed indeed. I still shake my head in disbelief of how she chewed you out. So much for her showing remorse.


----------



## F-102

First of all, are you sure she didn't put something in the meal? Or deliberately make it bad so that you'd start a fight with her? Perhaps it was a fitness test?

And as to why she chewed you out-she's trying to "bad guy" you.


----------



## jnj express

Your wife is still being selfish, instead of being selfless

She needs to learn what true remorse is, she needs to learn to be contrite, and she definitely needs to accept boundaries---if you do not set them, then she should set them herself, in an attempt to show you she really wants this mge to work

The really remorseful spouse that wants to make the mge work, will do anything, and i mean anything short of suffering abuse to show the betrayed spouse how much they really do want the mge to work--

this just doesn't seem to be your wife, tho in her own weak, pathetic way, she thinks a few token things will make it all go away


----------



## F-102

She seems the kind that won't appreciate what she really has-until she loses it.


----------



## cj9947

I decided to go to the movies last night to get out of the house. I saw "Horrible Bosses". It was very funny. I noticed that many of the movie previews they showed and the movie itself all had situations of adultery. Now being on this side of the fence I did not find any of it funny. I guess I never realized how much of our entertainment makes light of a very painful situation.

There was even a movie preview for an upcoming Steve Carrell movie where he comes home and his wife informs him she has been having an affair. The audience chuckled at his facial response to her affair. I guess you do not know until you know.


----------



## sinnister

Went to see horrible bosses with my wife as she stated she needs to "reconnect" with me. Although I haven't gone through adultury (that I know of...I'm starting to suspect an EA) the affair parts didn't have me in much of mood to laugh either.


----------



## cj9947

As I mentioned before, I plan to inform the OMW of the affair next Monday or Tuesday based on my schedule. How do I actually do this? Call her? Letter? In person?


----------



## Cypress

Well, it depends

Call her with the basic info. Then ask to meet her with the details the same day. The OM will paint you as a crazy, vindictive a-hole. It will help to have the OMW see you as a good husband, just trying to do the right thing.

Avoid the OM and WW finding out beforehand. Don't tell the WW about it. She will find out on her own. 

Ask the OMW if she wants to stay in touch so you can both keep an eye on the wayward 'children'


----------



## cj9947

Cypress said:


> Well, it depends
> 
> Call her with the basic info. Then ask to meet her with the details the same day. The OM will paint you as a crazy, vindictive a-hole. It will help to have the OMW see you as a good husband, just trying to do the right thing.
> 
> Avoid the OM and WW finding out beforehand. Don't tell the WW about it. She will find out on her own.
> 
> Ask the OMW if she wants to stay in touch so you can both keep an eye on the wayward 'children'


Thanks...because I do not want to salvage my marriage I'm only contacting her because of the unprotected sex issue...I had my STD test yesterday and I think she should too...I found out she is a RN at a local hospital...I do not think she is going to be too happy about the no condoms...I think that angered me more than the affair...my wife and I had a friend years ago who's wife cheated on him and gave him venereal warts...it really changed his life...it made it very difficult for him to meet someone new....it was like a double punishment....


----------



## Cypress

Not to put the fear of God in you, but say a prayer that you have a clear STD panel. WW was playing dice with your health.

My sister is a nurse. She told me that 25% of the adult population has herpes. 90% of those people have no idea they are carrying it. Women are more likely to contract it then men. It can affect children born to women with it. And as you know it is incurable. HIV and hepatitis are worse diseases, but less common, except in prostitutes and drug addicts. 

You WW and OMW in effect have slept with everyone the OM has. And who knows where he has been.


----------



## cj9947

Cypress said:


> Not to put the fear of God in you, but say a prayer that you have a clear STD panel. WW was playing dice with your health.
> 
> My sister is a nurse. She told me that 25% of the adult population has herpes. 90% of those people have no idea they are carrying it. Women are more likely to contract it then men. It can affect children born to women with it. And as you know it is incurable. HIV and hepatitis are worse diseases, but less common, except in prostitutes and drug addicts.
> 
> You WW and OMW in effect have slept with everyone the OM has. And who knows where he has been.


Believe me it was VERY sobering sitting there waiting for my turn and then answering the questions they asked me...scary and humbling at the same time...when the nurse left the room I choked up and cried a bit...I could not believe the position someone I so dedicated my life to could carelessly treat my well being like that...I have to admit I put my WW in the same category as the OM...I really have no confidence in her and her sexual activities...she could be as bad if not worse than the OM...I will tell that to his wife as well...


----------



## morituri

I feel for all of you, my fellow brothers and sisters of marital betrayal. We are kindred spirits and our strength is in our reaching out to one another.

*We are not defined by those whom we trusted yet stabbed us in the back, but by our ability to transcend the ordeal they created.*


----------



## F-102

Send the OMW a letter, via snail mail, with no return address. I'm willing to bet that your W was not the only one he screwed around with.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Call his wife and tell her, be ultra polite, do not state what your intention is for your marriage. Offer her all the details should she require it including your wife's number. 


Next send a formal letter to her company cc in the HR director, her and his line managers, the Chairman stating that they are conducting an affair on company time and using company resources. 

You then step back and focus on you, while today you may say the marriage is over, and it very well may be perhaps after the above your wife may suddenly regret and show true remorse and want to fight for you, the decision will be yours.


----------



## Gabriel

My wife and I saw Horrible Bosses last week and also saw the Steve Carell preview. I thought HB was hysterical and the affair element to it didn't bother me because the movie was just so unrealistic from the start.

Normally, I would want to see the Carell movie. But now, no friggin' way. After the preview my wife said, "That looks cute....but I'm guessing you have no desire to see it."

I said, "Nope. Not a chance."

And that was that. Which is too bad because my wife and I both are big Carell fans.

My point was made. We are working hard toward R, so not in your situation but we are not out of the woods either.


----------



## 8yearscheating

CJ - I know how feel right now. Believe it or not my situaiton was worse than yours. I strongly suggest you make no hard decisions in the state your in and give the shock a chance to wear off before you make any decisions. Let her actions speak, not her words on reconciling. ALso suggest both fo you go to beyondaffairs.com, click on the seminars tab and the word teleseminars near the upper right. Listen to them and her do the same. She f~cked up royally. It does not mean both of you can't recover and heal from this.


----------



## Saffron

Ugh, I hate that another woman out there is finding out about her husband's infidelity from the OW's H. It's how I found out and it's just one more traumatic event to add to the betrayal.

Have prove ready CJ, you don't want it to become a "he said/she said" scenario. The OM's wife is going to want to believe her H over your wife. Try to tell her over the phone or mail, I strongly discourage telling her in person.

I would also suggest not offering to stay in regular contact with the OM's wife when you talk to her. Our MC said, in general, the counseling community "does not recommend it for a variety of reasons". Perhaps offer her your email for "emergency" contact purposes, otherwise it's best to go NC after you speak to her. 

Once the OMW is informed, it's going to be up to her to choose the course of her marriage. It's not your responsiblity to keep her informed on your spouse's actions or vice versa. The rebuilding process between husband and wife has no room for an additional party, not the OM nor the OMW or in the OMW's case.... the OW or OWH.


----------



## justsam

but if he tries toa call her or send an e-mail the other guy might intercept and tell his side before cj gets to tell the real truth about it. you should actually go face-to-face so the issue sinks deeper in BW.


----------



## cj9947

Saffron said:


> Ugh, I hate that another woman out there is finding out about her husband's infidelity from the OW's H. It's how I found out and it's just one more traumatic event to add to the betrayal.
> 
> Have prove ready CJ, you don't want it to become a "he said/she said" scenario. The OM's wife is going to want to believe her H over your wife. Try to tell her over the phone or mail, I strongly discourage telling her in person.
> 
> I would also suggest not offering to stay in regular contact with the OM's wife when you talk to her. Our MC said, in general, the counseling community "does not recommend it for a variety of reasons". Perhaps offer her your email for "emergency" contact purposes, otherwise it's best to go NC after you speak to her.
> 
> Once the OMW is informed, it's going to be up to her to choose the course of her marriage. It's not your responsiblity to keep her informed on your spouse's actions or vice versa. The rebuilding process between husband and wife has no room for an additional party, not the OM nor the OMW or in the OMW's case.... the OW or OWH.


I thought about it today, how I had to tell her next week and it made my stomach turn. I am still going to do it but I hate the fact that I am going to bring such unhappiness to someone's life. I never imagined in a million years I would EVER be in this position. Aggravating...


----------



## justsam

you're doing the right thing. the wife needs to know the truth. she shouldn't be kept in the dark.


----------



## Saffron

I'm wondering if the OM already told his wife something, considering how CJ's wife confessed the affair. There seems to be a plan is in place by someone, too much of a coincidence that WS told the day before the OM went on vacation for 3 weeks.

I discourage doing it in person because it's already traumatizing to hear of the betrayal, but to hear it when you are confronted by a strange man at your door is extremely scary. You could be a psycho rapist for all she knows and their kids will most likely be right there behind her asking what's going on. I'm speaking from experience. I still feel a rush of anxiety when the doorbell rigns. Use it as a last resort only.

The OMW does deserve to know the truth CJ and I'm sorry you have to go through this on top of dealing with your wife's betrayal. I'm pretty sure the OM already knows you know, so I doubt you're going to tip him off no matter which way you try contact.

Good luck and remember to take care of yourself first. If you need a few extra days to compose yourself before contacting her, take it. Do what's best for you at this time.


----------



## justsam

> I discourage doing it in person because it's already traumatizing to hear of the betrayal, but to hear it when you are confronted by a strange man at your door is extremely scary.


at least by doing it face-to-face, you know that she _did_ get the message of her husbands doings. gather-up your evidence in a nice package, and go and introduce yourself to her; tell her why you are there and give her the information, then just say goodbye. you don't have to draw it out. like this you know the messages were'nt intercepted by the other guy, and it puts a face on the betrayed party- you're a human being with feelings also.


----------



## F-102

justsam said:


> but if he tries toa call her or send an e-mail the other guy might intercept and tell his side before cj gets to tell the real truth about it. you should actually go face-to-face so the issue sinks deeper in BW.


Yes, tell her, but tread lightly-there is always the chance that your W and the OM could accuse YOU of having an affair with the OMW, sort of a "beat you to the punch" scenario.


----------



## cj9947

Watching my wife this weekend; her behavior, conversations, body language & etc, you would think her affair is well in the past. I swear she doesn't even appear to even reflect upon it. She is back to behaving like she did before she told me about the affair. I guess after she said, "Sorry" she moved on.

I have chosen not to drive the conversations because I am not interested in reconciliation but her ineptness to explain all that was going on is like a clear indication of her lack of feelings towards me? Wow...cold. 

Is she in a Fog? Denial?


----------



## 8yearscheating

CJ, no WS will immediately open up or want to discuss the A. It hurts for them to face themselves in the mirror and hurts even more to see your pain and know they are the cause. Mine wanted to just forget it and move on, for me to just put it behind me. Our MC made it clear to her that what she wanted was impossible for me and she needed to help me sort through it. Even then, her preference is not talk about it. Again, I strongly encourage the two of you to see an MC even if you call it separation counseling and for her and you to see an IC. Hold off on major decisions until the shock and anger wear off some. If she shows the right actions (not words) you may find yourself changing mind. Regardless you don't need to do more damage to either one of you by getting nasty. Add to that she will be going through withdrawl. WHile you mourn the death of marriage as it was, she is mourning the loss of her OM. It hurts to think about that, but it's real for her.


----------



## Eli-Zor

She does not care enough to understand how much this is affecting you, in short she is a taker, and is trying to sweep this under the rug. 

Remove all the support mechanisms, proceed with your plan , if you choose to go to MC ensure the MC is pro marriage and be clear your wife has no remorse for what she has done.


----------



## cj9947

I informed the OMW today. It was one of the most difficult things that I have ever had to do. I would like to thank everyone for their inputs on how to do it. Your suggestions really did help.

The last couple of days my stomach has been in a knot thinking about having to do this. I am glad it is done and I am satisfied I did the right thing.

I tried to do it over the phone. When I called the home phone # I had for the OM a recording came on and said, "The number you are calling is no longer in use. If you feel as though...blah, blah, blah..." I was really bummed with this. So next I tried calling her at her work. They told me that I would have to speak with HR and they would forward the call request "If" she worked there. I decided not to involve her job.

My stomach is now starting to rumble again. So I decided to type up a letter to her and I would go to her home and if she was not home I would leave the letter in the mail box. I got to the home and ranged the bell. A teenage girl came to the door and said her mother was home. I swear time stood still while I waited for the 30 seconds or so it took the OMW to come to the door. I felt like running....

The OMW got to the door and I cut right to the chase. I told her my name and informed her that I was there because my wife and her husband were having an affair. I was taken back a little bit by her initial response. She seemed more suspicious of me than shocked/surprised by what I said. I was nervous. She then put both of her hands on her hips and asked me sternly how I knew this. 

I was prepared for this response because thanks to you who took the time to advise me on being prepared with objective proof. Without this message board I would have been caught off guard by her question. I told her my proof and her hands dropped from her hips and she shook her head and mumbled something in anger.

I told her I was sorry for what happened and I deeply regretted for having to be the bearer of bad news. I told her that I decided to tell her because of the unprotected sex issue. She listened and asked me just one question. She wanted to know my wife's full name. I told her my wife's name then told her I wished her well and I said goodbye.

The sense I got from her body language, speaking tone and facial expression was that she was not totally surprised by the situation. Either he had been caught doing this before or the "love" was already gone from the marriage. She did not ask me one detail question.

I would once again like to thank you all for your help in handling this difficult issue. Sincerely, thank you!!!


----------



## jayde

CJ - wow... you are an amazing man. You've been in my thoughts. Take good care of yourself. Hang in there pal as you've been doing.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Great job CJ. DO NOT take abuse from your wife as I'm sure the first thing the OM after being confronted was call her ***** her out for you hurting his wife. DOn't discuss it with her or respond to comments. I know you have to respond in some way. Just say I would have wanted her to do the same thing for me if I didn't know. It wasn't her or I that did this and we didn't hurt anyone. Then drop it and walk away.


----------



## Gabriel

BRAVO CJ!!

Do NOT let your wife curse you out. Just say, "It was the right thing to do. She needed to know her husband had unprotected sex outside his marriage. You lost your right to curse me out when you decided to f*ck him. In fact, I don't even care what you think anymore."

BOOM!!


----------



## Eli-Zor

Fantastic news, even if they have problems in their marriage she now has enough information and will turn the screws on him.

Please do not bulk at the work exposure to HR, it is very unlikely your wife will be fired , but there is a very good chance the OM will be transferred


----------



## F-102

Well played, sir!


----------



## cj9947

My WW appears to be in a bubble. I swear things are back to normal for her. She let me know today that she made dinner plans for us both Friday and Saturday with friends to which I immediately replied I would not be attending. I have noticed that she has not lost one minute of sleep too.

I have been following the 180 principles. I do not question her or argue with her. To me, it just compounds how little she felt towards and cared for me. I would like her to get to a point where I could discuss an amicable divorce with her but at this point it doesn't even seem like she realizes we have a marriage problem.

How long does it take someone to come out of this fog/funk? Do I wait patiently or is there something I should be doing?


----------



## F-102

Good call on dinner-sounds a little like an "ambush".


----------



## morituri

cj9947 said:


> I would like her to get to a point where I could discuss an amicable divorce with her but at this point it doesn't even seem like she realizes we have a marriage problem.
> 
> How long does it take someone to come out of this fog/funk? Do I wait patiently or is there something I should be doing?


You can wait until 'the cows come home' and your wife could still be in 'the fog'. 

One question, does your wife throw violent tantrums when she is confronted?


----------



## 8yearscheating

The fog STARTS to dissipate after NC is firmly in place and she gets through her grieving of the loss of her OM. It's not completely gone until she starts to take ownership for her actions. Then she has to forgive herself and understand why she did what did without blame shifting. THEN the fog is gone. RIght now she is still in the "it will all go away" mode. She hasn't accepted responsibility or faced herself in the mirror yet.


----------



## jnj express

She refuses to face the fact that you don't want the mge.-----She is trying to work you back into things as they may have been before----when its all over and the dust clears, she doesn't want to find herself as a single, divorced woman, who ended up that way cuz she cheated on her H.----

She knows at her age, there are very slim pickings out there, for anyone who may be halfway decent, and that's in a big city---IF you are in a small town---there is probably NO ONE whose is worthwhile, that is available---that is the future she is looking at---A LONELY LIFE, WITH STRANGE SCUMBAGS FOR COMPANIONSHIP HERE AND THERE----she does not wanna end up in that scenario---but she knows if you leave, that is her future----she is doing whatever she can to try and get you back into the mge

Its really all about what you want, and what you can handle, but no matter what----play this forward by your rules, do not let her put you in situations that you don't wanna be in---and do not allow her to attempt to put the mge., back where it was, as if her thrill seeking sex, was gone and forgotten!!!!!!


----------



## 8yearscheating

Every woman is scared in this position. She does want to save the marriage. She cannot accept or face up to herself and what she has done to you and the marriage yet. THAT takes time.


----------



## cj9947

Whew...got my STD results and all was negative...in celebration I will be having an ice cold Newcastle...

By the way, the "Nut" is now emailing every 2 hours to tell me how her day is going...I swear I am going to wake up any moment and find out this was a bizarre nightmare...While I have accepted the truth of the situation is still seams so surreal....


----------



## Gabriel

She is probably emailing you to show you she is not messing around. It's her attempt to reach closeness. While I don't think she was cut out for marriage, I think you should take your time here before rushing to D. Her behavior is changing very quickly all the time. If I'm you I sit back and watch the show, while still implementing the hard 180 I discussed before. Her behavior will reveal a lot. 

But if you know you are done, be done, just dont act quickly or make any extreme decisions while in this state. It's only been a month since DDay. A lot will still change/happen.


----------



## 8yearscheating

The pain will get less and less. Face it head on and tell it to go away. Love your wife like you've never been hurt and accept her's at face value - it's real - I guarantee it. Let yourself go into her arms and feel her love and warmth. The emotional and physical connection will help things improve for you and you feel like a young, dumb and full of come teenager again!


----------



## 8yearscheating

She is trying to be transparent and let you know where she is so your comfortable she is not where she isn't supposed to be. She is trying to build your trust. She is doing the right things. Accept her love and let her know how great she is being - praise her.


----------



## jnj express

Hey 8 years do you really believe that cuz love and dating, and courting---will make it all go away---I don't know?????

Maybe some can just let it go---but when you are by yourself, driving, or at work, in bed at 3 a m when you wake up by yourself----all you think about is the other man/woman inside your spouses body----all you think about is her going to him, or vice versa---all you think about is her lies, deceit, planning her A. movements, her disrespect of you----that's your sub-conscious working and it does not stop

Sure you can try and let it all slide---but you will never trust her the same---you will always look over your shoulder----for some maybe what you espouse works, for many---they will never again even want to touch their cheating spouse, much less look at them, or talk to them----everyone handles betrayel differently---it just ain't that simple---your sub-c. will never let it be simple


----------



## 8yearscheating

YOU need to work on that JNJ. It does help in my experience to loosen up and take a chance if the WS is doing the right things and trying real hard. If you know my story, I had horrible things to get through - 20 years, three men. YOU have to heal yourself, she can't go inside your head and fix YOU.


----------



## morituri

Unlike a lot of folks here that have imaginary movies of their wives having sex with other men, I had the REAL movies in my computer and when I saw them, my soul was engulfed in hellfire. As much as I loved my ex-wife, those real life videos were simply too much for me to bear.

Sometimes the best way to heal is via divorce.


----------



## 8yearscheating

To each his own.


----------



## cj9947

In trying to better understand the dynamics of this affair in my life; I have gone through and read dozens of previous posters' experiences. One theme I have read about is the betrayed spouse's internal debate about whether to give up on the "truth" search even though their "gut" is telling them something still is not right. Usually the WS has shown contrition and interest in reconciliation with plenty of tears and promises of already full "truth" disclosure. 

Do not believe the liar for a minute. Stick with your "gut". Here's why....

Last night my wife approached me at 9:30 P.M. and told me the first of two dinner dates this weekend was canceled because someone was ill. Sticking to the 180 programs I politely thanked her for the info and reminded her that I had already turned down both invitations. Wife then asked me, "Do you mind if I ask you why?" In my head all I heard was why? why? why? why? why? 

I instantly thought about something what "8yearscheating" wrote..."The fog STARTS to dissipate after NC is firmly in place and she gets through her grieving of the loss of her OM. It's not completely gone until she starts to take ownership for her actions. Then she has to forgive herself and understand why she did what did without blame shifting. THEN the fog is gone. RIght now she is still in the "it will all go away" mode. She hasn't accepted responsibility or faced herself in the mirror yet."

I told her it was late and I did not want to talk about at this time. I went to the computer and looked up our latest cell phone bill convinced that my WW and the OM must still be in contact. I was convinced I was going to see phone and text records post D-Day. I was 100% wrong. There were no records of their contact after the day before she told me of the affair. Surprised, I was about to click the web page close and go to bed. I then quickly clicked the previous month's statement and found at least 100 texts to a different phone number. I then checked several other monthly statement and same thing tons of emails.

Stunned, I asked my wife who's number was this. Her reply, "That's my flirty friend." WTF? I said to myself. She went on to explain he was a coworker. She said, "I told you a long time ago he found me attractive." I asked her if this has been going on for a while. She said, "yes" but that even though they were attracted to each other they were both married and nothing would happen. It was just flirting. My blood starting to boil but I kept my cool. I asked her to give me an example of the most intense of these flirts got. She said, "One time he texted me what he would do to me sexually if had the chance under the right circumstances."

I asked her why she did not disclose this information on D-Day. She said it was just flirting and not the same. I asked her if she deleted these texts from her phone. She said, "yes". I asked if they were so innocent then why did you delete them. She said, "Because I did not want you to see them." I lost it at that point. With a selection of choice words I informed her that she was "a liar, liar with pants on fire." I restart the 180 program today.

Lesson learned: "Never trust a liar. Trust your gut."


----------



## jnj express

Talking about liar, liar, pants on fire---how many times are you gonna let your wife burn you---and now with multiple guys

She lies, you don't know what went on at work,----- she doesn't have a problem giving herself to others, so what makes you think she tells the truth about what went on at work


----------



## Gabriel

Wow. I mean wow. This psychopath seems to think that flirting and sexting is perfectly okay. Her "no more sex outside the marriage" comment has a double meaning. It also means, "as long as we don't engage physically, it's harmless".

You need to tell her that if she doesn't understand that, she should leave the house. This person does not respect you at all.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

cj9947 said:


> She said, "yes" but that even though they were attracted to each other they were *both married and nothing would happen*.


But if only one person is married (her) then all bets are off apparently. What kind of logic is that?


----------



## stoney96

CJ,

Man, I really feel for you, especially after this latest revelation.

If it were me, I would trust my gut. My instincts have been the only thing in my marriage that have been telling me the truth.

As far as the new texts found, as I see it you have two choices;

1) Drop it and move on. This would apply if you knew the marriage is over, and you are done.

2) Get her phone and text the other man, without her knowledge. Send a text such as "What are your favorite memories about us?" or "Just wondering how many times for you and I" something along those lines.

Forward any answers to your email for safe keeping.

As for me, I found out via phone logs, and I called him from my wifes phone to confront him. He just lied.

Wish I would have texted instead.

JT


----------



## 8yearscheating

She is trickling out the truth to you and has a very skewed sense of what is ok. It is part of the problem all DS have. The boundaries of what is right and acceptable keep getting moved further and further until what you believe is acceptable is not even close to what she has convinced herself is acceptable. She needs to learn where the boundaries belong and accept them. I really really suggest you two would be candidates for a private coaching session with the BAN group with a couple of coaches that are husband and wife and the wife is the one who cheated. By doing it that way, she will be told how her skewed thinking is completely wrong by someone just like her and a woman who has been through it. It would help immensely because anything you say will be taken as your opinion being too close to the situation and also as controlling. It's not cheap, but the best way to jump start your r efforts and get started on the right track. beyondaffairs.com then click the coaching tab and send an email requesting info. I can PM you the response they sent me if you want me to.


----------



## cj9947

8yearscheating said:


> She is trickling out the truth to you and has a very skewed sense of what is ok. It is part of the problem all DS have. The boundaries of what is right and acceptable keep getting moved further and further until what you believe is acceptable is not even close to what she has convinced herself is acceptable. She needs to learn where the boundaries belong and accept them. I really really suggest you two would be candidates for a private coaching session with the BAN group with a couple of coaches that are husband and wife and the wife is the one who cheated. By doing it that way, she will be told how her skewed thinking is completely wrong by someone just like her and a woman who has been through it. It would help immensely because anything you say will be taken as your opinion being too close to the situation and also as controlling. It's not cheap, but the best way to jump start your r efforts and get started on the right track. beyondaffairs.com then click the coaching tab and send an email requesting info. I can PM you the response they sent me if you want me to.


Please do PM me. I would really appreciate it.


----------



## cj9947

Gabriel said:


> You need to tell her that if she doesn't understand that, she should leave the house. This person does not respect you at all.


Last night when I tried to raise the issue of a trial separation she cried and ran up stairs. I think the fog/denial is clouding her mind and she is no where near resolving the matter. I am partly to blame for last night. I let her comments get to me. It is just so shocking after 17 years with someone to have conversations like this. Next my mother will call me and tell me she has joined the mafia to be a hit woman.

I am working on staying with some family for a while. I feel like I am living in a David Lynch movie.


----------



## Gabriel

She doesn't want to face her wrongs at all. She is in denial about what she has done. Her therapist is clearly coddling her through it and making her feel better, but isn't reaching the depths. And really, you two should be going together if you want any chance, because therapists (from what I've been told) only talk about what the patient wants to talk about. Your W probably isn't telling her everything. THen again, you may not even want to R. Since you don't have kids, living with some family for a few days might be good. No abandonment issues, and it shows her 1) the full extent of your pain, and 2) that you aren't a doormat.


----------



## 8yearscheating

NO - do not leave. Just shut the hell up and learn what your next steps should be without doing more damage.


----------



## stoney96

CJ,

Gabriel has a point about the Therapist.

My wife initially wanted to visit one together, 5 years ago. Unfortunatily, she wasn't honest, and the therapist didn't challenge her.

Nothing was resolved.

Six months ago, on my D Day, we started seeing another therapist. This one wanted to look into her past, and never addressed the current problem of the OM.

I was quick to address this with the MC, and hopefully get us back on track.

What I knew, is that the only thing that my wife had proven to me, was that she couldn't be trusted, and was very proficient at lying. Not just to me, but to her family and church members.

You need a very aggressive therapist, who is familiar with marriage issues, and not just "feelings".

To be honest, it took several months of my digging to find the partial truth. DS's won't admit sh*t unless they are backed into a corner.

And you might as well recognize, you'll never know everything.

If you can't accept that, it's going to be a tough road.

JT


----------



## 8yearscheating

Remeber one thing about every therapist, they are there to help the person they are seeing, not you. They can only work with what they know. MC is better because it helps both of you. IC is for dealing with specific issues and only works if the WS is 100% honest which they aren't until they have they own what happened.


----------



## cj9947

cj9947 said:


> Stunned, I asked my wife who's number was this. Her reply, "That's my flirty friend." WTF? I said to myself. She went on to explain he was a coworker. She said, "I told you a long time ago he found me attractive." I asked her if this has been going on for a while. She said, "yes" but that even though they were attracted to each other they were both married and nothing would happen. It was just flirting. My blood starting to boil but I kept my cool. I asked her to give me an example of the most intense of these flirts got. She said, "One time he texted me what he would do to me sexually if had the chance under the right circumstances."
> 
> 
> Lesson learned: "Never trust a liar. Trust your gut."



Thought I would update to let you guys know how things are going...I have been eating good and exercising. I think that really does help with making me feel good. I have been spending much more time with and on "ME". I am almost done reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Excellent book with facts and stories that really hit home.

I am following the 180 rules and I can see it is starting to have some effect on her. Last night she had a funny look on her face like she wanted me to start a conversation but I was not biting.
So as I was reading she blurts out, "I told you I sent photos of myself to my "Flirty" friend, right?" I just looked up from my book and shook my head no. She then follows up with, "Then I probably should tell you that I did try to arrange to have drinks with him one night." I looked up and said, "Yes, you should have" and I went back to reading my book.

This trickle truth stuff is amazing. I could tell by her facial expressions there is a real debate going on in her head about telling me what she has yet to admit to.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Did you ever that coaching session with one of the women cheaters at beyondaffairs.com? I really think it would turn her around. A little hard to argue with or ignore someone who has been where she is.


----------



## Whip Morgan

CJ, I might have missed a post. Are you working on a recovery, or planning divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102

CJ, good job, bro!


----------



## cj9947

8yearscheating said:


> Did you ever that coaching session with one of the women cheaters at beyondaffairs.com? I really think it would turn her around. A little hard to argue with or ignore someone who has been where she is.


I did email them and am waiting to hear back. Thank you very much for the suggestion.


----------



## cj9947

Whip Morgan said:


> CJ, I might have missed a post. Are you working on a recovery, or planning divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was definitely ready to end it. I have the divorce papers for an amicable end yet my wife was nowhere near ready to confront the situation. She ran upstairs crying. She is still in her fog.

I am now in "Moratorium". Based on some excellent advice from fellow board members and from articles I read; I am going to wait 90 days before I make any permanent decisions. I'll have to be patient for now.


----------



## cj9947

I would appreciate your advice about how to handle a situation. My wife's closet friend happens to be a female co-worker. This co-worker has always been polite and friendly to me. In fact, I like her. She seems nice.

Here is the issue...my wife is talking the other night and she tells me how her co-worker friend told her about a very personal matter. The issue is something she did that is kind of contrary to her image. All of a sudden my intuition kicked in and I said to myself, "If she is telling my wife this kind of personal information what kind of stuff has my wife shared with her." I should note that this co-worker friend of my wife is also very good friends with the man my wife had the PA with. She also know the man my wife had the EA with.

Should I keep this woman out of my life? My intuition seems to be telling me she probably knows more details about what went on than I know about.


----------



## jnj express

What kind of a relationship does your wife have with the co-worker---if they are close---then they probably do talk about things at a very personal level.

This is f to f stuff, and you wouldn't be included

Is this co-worker supporting her being married or her cheating

These are things that come into play, in you deciding whether to confide/talk to/be friends with this co-worker----You should probably lean away from her---but don't exclude her---down the line she might be able to give you insight about things you want info. on


----------



## Shaggy

CJ - Instead of keeping the woman out of your life, become friends with her if you can. She may be able to fill in a lot of details you're missing if you play it slow and cool.

Remember to keep your enemies very close. It also might have the added benefit of cutting off the OM from his support network.


----------



## F-102

Do what you want, but don't get TOO close to this co-worker.
Your W could just as easily turn the tables on you, saying you and the co-worker are in an affair.


----------



## cj9947

Well, the co-worker friend is out of my life. Went through some emails between her and my wife and found the following;

1) Knows and probably knew about the PA.
2) Knew about EA.
3) Was angry at ME for fighting with wife about these issues.
4) Told wife to consider if I was a good enough husband for her.
5) Wife shared my personal matters with her.
6) Knew about my wife's excessive flirting.
7) Post affair, told my wife I was controlling because I told my wife to stop drinking alcohol during work hours.

This is a woman I have had over my house. A woman I have paid to take out to dinner with us. A woman I have helped with car problems. A woman who has slept over my house. A woman I have gone to give a ride home because she had one too many. A woman who smiles to my face and hugs me. F*ck her.....

By the way...this is all new info I had to find out myself. My wife is still lying and doing trickle truth.


----------



## 8yearscheating

CJ moratorium doesn't mean you don't have to let your wife know what you will do if she continues in contact and refuses NC and transparency. You don't have to pull the trigger so to speak, just lay it out for her and put a time limit on her making a decision. You can't survive watching her continue. I'd suggest telling her she has couple of weeks max. Then you want her gone because you can't stand by and watch this anymore, it's killing you. You'll start with a legal separation. That means she is on her own financially. Before you start this discussion, close all joint accounts, banks, credit cards and loans and notify Experien Transunion and Equifax to put a fraud alert on you accounts stating no new joint credit is to be issued without your expressed approval - you are in a separation and may divorce. You can undo that later if things work out. You tell her you have done this. If she has a car loan it's on her to keep up the payments as wella s any place to live. If you have a mortgage, she is expected to make 1/2 the payments and 1/2 the expense payments even if she's not living there. Since it was probably a joint loan, that is her responsibility if she wants 1/2 the proceeds and doesn't want to default on her portion. Tell her you will then (after she moves out) give it a month before filing. You can finish the discussion by saying none of this is what you want. You want to work it out. You don't want her to move because statistically it just about kills the chances you will stay married. But she is leaving YOU NO options. It's all in her court. Her choice to make. Then walk away and don't discuss it or negotiate. If she comes back with anything other than NC and transparency, the response should be, I see you've made your decision. Do you want me to help you start packing now?

Hard line. You can't fix a marriage by yourself or with three people in it and you can't change her mind.


----------



## 8yearscheating

I'll add, the parts of the 180 I don't believe in. Tell her how you feel, be real not deceptive. Keep the lines of communication open, but stick to your boundaries.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Would you like to know what happened when I delved into the great mysteries of "why", "how", to what extent, and so forth?
Nothing.
It made no difference, save to feed more pain. 
It became the greater length of sword with which I were to continue to fall onto. 

In my situation, I was not given any option other than to divorce. After my wifes affair, she told me that our marriage was over. We go to court the end of this month.

Other woman, other man, friends who knew about it, the details, the deception, all can be exposed, but at a continued price to yourself. Its not about "ignorance being bliss", its about choosing, for yourself, to begin to get up and dust yourself off.
Sure, there may be more, but what would it serve you to know?
Do you need more fuel on the rope that burns to seperate you?

They only have as much power as you give them. 
I have decided, by my own choice to rely on my understanding that who my wife was, had changed somehow. Something within her mind had changed, and I was not in any amount of control of that. Your wife has changed too. The loss to us is so great there is only so much we can do to regain control of ourselves. Grit your teeth and face the wind.

I understand wholeheartedly the precious value you held for your marriage. But again, it is not about your loss anymore, or about you failing, or not doing enough, or what problems were there, for if any existed it was not up to you alone to address them.

These are all matters that no longer matter, and you are free and granted the permission to allow them to not matter by her actions.

None of this takes away from what you are, nor does it remove what you would have made that marriage to be if things were different. Dont let yourself get caught up in the daily mire like I did, of wondering about it all, and finding further evidence, and finding worse and worse things to have to dwell on about it all.
Its your life now and you dont have to!

You didnt do this. Didnt choke the lifebreath from it. No victim was ever brought back by answering "why" it happened.


----------



## lordmayhem

cj9947 said:


> Well, the co-worker friend is out of my life. Went through some emails between her and my wife and found the following;
> 
> 1) Knows and probably knew about the PA.
> 2) Knew about EA.
> 3) Was angry at ME for fighting with wife about these issues.
> 4) Told wife to consider if I was a good enough husband for her.
> 5) Wife shared my personal matters with her.
> 6) Knew about my wife's excessive flirting.
> 7) Post affair, told my wife I was controlling because I told my wife to stop drinking alcohol during work hours.
> 
> This is a woman I have had over my house. A woman I have paid to take out to dinner with us. A woman I have helped with car problems. A woman who has slept over my house. A woman I have gone to give a ride home because she had one too many. A woman who smiles to my face and hugs me. F*ck her.....
> 
> By the way...this is all new info I had to find out myself. My wife is still lying and doing trickle truth.


Yes, cut this woman out of your life, *she is no friend of the marriage*. She quite obviously *enabled both affairs*, and possibly *facilitated* them by being a go-betweent confidant. She was nice to your face, but stabbing you in the back to your WW. Typical. _She's probably a cheater herself _since she has no morals and enabled your WW's affairs.

Know this: As long as this woman is your WWs closest friend AND a coworker, *your WW will stay in the fog* because she will continue to enable your wife and validate her affairs. To have any hope of R, your WW will have to quit her job and cut her friend from her life. I sincerely doubt she will do this because she's still lying and TTing. 

Sorry buddy, but it doesn't look good for you, not at all.


----------



## cj9947

cj9947 said:


> Well, the co-worker friend is out of my life. Went through some emails between her and my wife and found the following;
> 
> 1) Knows and probably knew about the PA.
> 2) Knew about EA.
> 3) Was angry at ME for fighting with wife about these issues.
> 4) Told wife to consider if I was a good enough husband for her.
> 5) Wife shared my personal matters with her.
> 6) Knew about my wife's excessive flirting.
> 7) Post affair, told my wife I was controlling because I told my wife to stop drinking alcohol during work hours.
> 
> This is a woman I have had over my house. A woman I have paid to take out to dinner with us. A woman I have helped with car problems. A woman who has slept over my house. A woman I have gone to give a ride home because she had one too many. A woman who smiles to my face and hugs me. F*ck her.....
> 
> By the way...this is all new info I had to find out myself. My wife is still lying and doing trickle truth.


Update....

Forced wife to end relationship with this female co-worker earlier in week. Wife is 100% convinced this woman cannot be in her life and be married to me. Wife shared with me some more aspects of their relationship.

1) Wife claims co-worker friend and her did not discuss PA ever.

2) Co-worker friend was physically present at all locations wife had physical sex with OM. (Work, business trip and restaurant.)
Wife claims it was behind co-worker friend's back/eye sight.

3) Told my wife I was the kind of man who my wife could never make happy.

4) Co-worker friend had PA with the married brother of my wife's affair partner.

5) Recently told my wife she once considered being my wife's affair partner's F*CK Buddy because his wife did not treat him right.

6) Co-worker friend saw my wife's affair partner in the hall at work last week and told my wife, "I just love him. He is such a nice guy."

7) Listening to my wife I almost got the sense that she and her co-worker friend "got off" on each other inappropriate behavior. Like deviant Thelma and Louises.


----------



## 8yearscheating

Any changes in your wife's behavior and did she accept willingly ending it with the toxic friend?


----------



## cj9947

8yearscheating said:


> Any changes in your wife's behavior and did she accept willingly ending it with the toxic friend?


8yearscheating,
I have seen some indications of changes in her behavior and attitude. She will mention things that she has remembered that might be of concern to me in terms of her past behavior. I also have to admit when I was talking about her toxic friend it did seem as though I actually saw a light bulb go off in her head about this women. She actually wrote out what she was going to tell the toxic friend and asked me my opinion. She also claims that she has stopped all lies and trickle truth about the affair. She also volunteered to take and pay for a polygraph test.

Those are the positives. On the other side I still see the "fog" in her eyes. I still do not think she fully grasps yet the "atomic bomb" nature of her actions.

I now can look at her and listen to her without getting angry. I think this message board, books, articles and focusing more on my needs has giving me a sense of peace. I feel like I am getting my "house in order" and regardless of what happens between she and I; I am feeling better about my future. Time will tell....


----------



## 8yearscheating

Slow and steady CJ.I'm glad to hear she is showing the right actions. Now if she'll just stay on the right path.


----------



## cj9947

*Hit the "Depression Stage" yesterday...*

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

Per, "The Betrayed Spouse (BS) Script" I hit the Stage 3 "Depression" stage yesterday hard. Out of nowhere my emotions plunged into a deep dark place that lasted for about five hours. I have always been a positive, take action kind of guy who does not put himself down. It took all my mental strength to pull out of it.

I spent the rest of the night reflecting about all the negative thoughts this experience has evoked in me. I am also starting to feel a bit foolish about "red flag" items I clearly missed or chose to ignore for some reason. While in the depression I was pretty hard on myself for these lapses.

I was scheduled to visit family next week but I am going to cancel for now. I would not want them to see me the way I was yesterday.


----------

