# Am I asking him for too much? Should a lover do more?



## elise.marie

Ok so for the past few years my husband has grown increasingly less affectionate. I have tried talking to him about it in multiple different ways, offering solutions, telling him clearly what affection means to me etc. I’m a beautiful 25yr old women but he hardly touches me, our conversations are short all that kind of stuff, we have sex but he always just asks “wanna play?” 

And I’ve told him many times that I’m not a light switch you can’t just turn me on I’d like some romance or foreplay or flirting or something ya know. I used to put so much effort into special date nights, special surprises for him, special birthday days with the works put into it but he never tries to put in ANY extra effort besides the absolute bare minimum for me. For example on our anniversary he asked me the night before what I wanted (and I feel like he should be able to find a gift or make something that reminds him of me or find a gift I like, does not need to be expensive I’m not high maintenance) so I was bummed thinking he might have had something special to cheer me up since my mom had just passed away and I had been super down, so I just told him to pick something, the next day he goes to the store comes home and hands me a box with jewelry, a fancy necklace, which would be fine except for this- I don’t wear fancy jewelry my ears are gauged and I wear hippy jewelry not fancy jewels on silver which he should have known right?

We’ve been married 6years. He also got me the same exact necklace for my birthday last year which shows he just goes and grabs something shiny assuming I’ll love it and it will work just because I’m a girl. Nothing to do with who I am or what he knows about me. My mom died in my arms the day before my sons birthday and a week before mother’s day this year and you know what he did? Went to work the next day on our sons 3rd birthday leaving me grieving and trying to give my son a somewhat birthday, then a week later finally gives me flowers for my mother’s passing but it was a “happy mother’s day/ condolences” bouquet in one and nothing else for mother’s day.

It’s not that I want him spoiling me senseless but I just feel like these things are showing he doesn’t care to put in any effort into our love. Yet when confronted he “loves me to death and couldn’t live with out me” blah blah blah. Am I expecting too much or am I right to feel like a deserve a little more love and affection and things that make me feel loved and appreciated in life? How can I make him see this? It’s like he thinks there’s no point in putting extra effort in anywhere and it’s a waste of time, then I hear of husbands or boyfriends who go all out on cute surprises for their lovers and I want him to want to do stuff like that for me but I’m starting to think he never will and he’s just keeping me around so he doesn’t end up old and alone, not because he’s truly in love with who I am and wants me to feel loved for the rest of my life. Is he just lazy? Is there chance for change? 

Should a husband put more effort into affection and showing love with actions or am I delusional?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Yes, he should, in short.


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## StarFires

The first thing you have to do is stop comparing your husband to other husbands. You have no idea what is going on in those marriages, so what you think you see is actually the delusion. Focus on your own marriage and what you need from your own husband.

Then, put it in a letter. Guys often don't hear their wife. It's like they automatically tune you out so that what you say goes in one ear and out the other with no processing between ears. This has always been a problem to the point that men end up coming to sites like this because their wife wants a divorce, but they had no idea there were problems in the marriage, despite wifey spending years telling him in every way she can possibly figure out. During those years, he called her a nag not realizing he made her into the nag that she became simply because he didn't hear the first 20 times she asked him to do something or not to do something. When she becomes the Walk Away Wife, then he's shocked to learn she wasn't happy. It's an age-old problem.

Women are verbal, but men don't respond to words. Men respond to actions. So you can express your feelings and displeasure to him many times, as you have done, and he still won't hear it. If, however, you said "I filed for divorce" then that is an action that will move him into action. I'm not suggesting you threaten him with divorce. I'm saying you have to find a way to get through to him by your actions instead of words. Your complaints are perceived by him as pursuit - you trying to get him to show more affection and be more considerate is you pursuing his love and attention, but that's what he doesn't respond to because men are innately the pursuers. What you have to do is stop pursuing him and find a way to get him to pursue you again.

You can read up on the Walk Away Wife Syndrome *here* or *here* or google for more articles in order to gain an understanding of what you're going through. You want to prevent getting to the point of becoming tired and fed up with his lack of effort and attention, so it's best to understand the male psyche in that regard. If you can afford it, a call or two to the Divorce Busting coach or maybe try their Online Community. She also has articles, books, and DVDs on the subject.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

What was that ? 😆 

Just kidding. 

Much of this I'm in agreement with. 

But a short letter, not a long one, imho.

I don't get the mail, cause I get enough email and mail at work. 

But I read what DW puts in front of me or in my briefcase.


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## StillSearching

Second thing...
What does it matter when he buys your gift? 
How long would you actually like for him to think about your gift before he buys it? 
And don't say "Just more than one day"....
If you are going to make an issue of how long he should ponder your gifts...BE SPECIFIC.


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## uhtred

I see two separate things. Its certainly reasonable to want love romance and affection. Each of you should give that to the other. 

Gifts are trickier. Getting gifts can be very difficult and some people just fall back on what they know. I think he is trying to get you nice things, and to me even if he fails to get you what you want, the attempt is what matters.

Often my wife gets me terrible gifts for my birthday - but I honestly show how much I appreciate that she went to the effort to do something nice for me. It *is* something nice because she got it for me.


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## StarFires

uhtred said:


> I see two separate things. Its certainly reasonable to want love romance and affection. Each of you should give that to the other.
> 
> Gifts are trickier. Getting gifts can be very difficult and some people just fall back on what they know. I think he is trying to get you nice things, and to me even if he fails to get you what you want, the attempt is what matters.
> 
> Often my wife gets me terrible gifts for my birthday - but I honestly show how much I appreciate that she went to the effort to do something nice for me. It *is* something nice because she got it for me.


Ohhh I have to disagree. She's not asking too much for him to put some thought into the gift and the occasion. Essentially saying "It's the thought that counts" is a bunch of rubbish to me if the gift isn't anything like the person's personality and types of things they would like and could actually use. I don't apply that pointless rule at Christmas time for family and friends and it doesn't apply between partners. Terrible gifts require no thought at all, so terrible is all they are. You appreciate the thought from your wife, but only strangers should have to.

Even for doing secret Santa at various jobs I've worked, everyone fills out a sheet of likes, favorites colors, etc. even down to what kind of candy bars they prefer so that when randomly drawing a co-worker's name, you can always refer to that when choosing their gifts. So you see, everybody is fully aware that some kind of thought should go into gift selection, and nobody really believes in "It's the thought that counts" when they receive a bunch of useless crap they don't like and have no use for that, particularly their own spouse, should know about them.


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## personofinterest

OP I'm gonna go out on a limb here....

I'm going to assume that him half-assing your gifts and buying you THE SAME thing for twp holidays because he pays zero attention wouldn't bother you as badly if he would ACTUALLY touch you and show some affection and attention.

Just pointing out the obvious truth that this is about more than a short-notice anniversary gift that screams lack of thought.

Funny how it is obvious the reall hurt you are experiencing is that he doesn't seem to think or you or be attentive to you AT all....yet people want to focus on the gift so they can make it your fault.

This isn't about you. This is about a man who vowed to cherish you but won't even touch you and doesn't even seem to know you.

I'm sorry, I am sure that hurts.


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## elise.marie

It’s not how long he thought of it, I don’t care if it took him two seconds, I was just saying that if you’re with someone for 6 years don’t you think you would notice what they like and don’t like? It just showed that he only got me something because he “had to” and that was the easy option instead of doing something from the heart. I wouldn’t of cared if he didn’t spend a dime on it, as long as he did something that showed that he had interest in making me happy or excited. Him buying that necklace was no act of love it was him playing by the rules of marriage so he wouldn’t get the dog house


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## elise.marie

Thank you! Seriously the gifts were examples to show how half assed he does things and that he somehow doesn’t know me and is that really worth sticking around for?


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## elise.marie

personofinterest said:


> OP I'm gonna go out on a limb here....
> 
> I'm going to assume that him half-assing your gifts and buying you THE SAME thing for twp holidays because he pays zero attention wouldn't bother you as badly if he would ACTUALLY touch you and show some affection and attention.
> 
> Just pointing out the obvious truth that this is about more than a short-notice anniversary gift that screams lack of thought.
> 
> Funny how it is obvious the reall hurt you are experiencing is that he doesn't seem to think or you or be attentive to you AT all....yet people want to focus on the gift so they can make it your fault.
> 
> This isn't about you. This is about a man who vowed to cherish you but won't even touch you and doesn't even seem to know you.
> 
> I'm sorry, I am sure that hurts.


Thank you! Seriously the gifts were examples to show how half assed he does things and that he somehow doesn’t know me and is that really worth sticking around for?


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## StarFires

elise.marie said:


> It’s not how long he thought of it, I don’t care if it took him two seconds, I was just saying that if you’re with someone for 6 years don’t you think you would notice what they like and don’t like? It just showed that he only got me something because he “had to” and that was the easy option instead of doing something from the heart. I wouldn’t of cared if he didn’t spend a dime on it, as long as he did something that showed that he had interest in making me happy or excited. Him buying that necklace was no act of love it was him playing by the rules of marriage so he wouldn’t get the dog house


You shouldn't have to feel the need to defend yourself and your expectations.


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## Prodigal

elise.marie said:


> ... the gifts were examples to show how half assed he does things and that he somehow doesn’t know me and is that really worth sticking around for?


Does he know how you really feel? Ultimately, only you can decide if you wish to remain in the relationship. Does he have other redeeming qualities, or is the relationship suffering in other areas as well?


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## StarFires

Prodigal said:


> Does he know how you really feel? Ultimately, only you can decide if you wish to remain in the relationship. Does he have other redeeming qualities, or is the relationship suffering in other areas as well?


Read her original post, please.


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## Mr. Nail

StarFires said:


> Read her original post, please.


I tried, really I did. twice. I might need 3 - 6 years to start understanding this one. 

Here is what I have managed so far. Dough head hubby just doesn't get it. Reading love languages and her needs might help him, unless it doesn't. He seems to be continually pushing the wrong buttons. I don't know a man who doesn't miss the button every now and again, but this seems to be much more. 

My suspicion is that he is actually getting worse at romance as the years pass. That somehow he managed to attract and Woo Elise, but has stopped putting in the effort, or worse yet forgotten how to reach her. Elise keeps saying she isn't sure it is worth staying for. Which I take to mean that she is tired of waiting for the old him to resurface.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

I dunno.

For major gifts, I ask specifically what DW wants, because she knows I mean well but can sometimes not get what she really wanted, and I truly want her to have what she wants.

This saves time in the return lanes. 

But I hug and touch her all the time, regardless of what day it is. ❤❤❤


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## StarFires

Mr. Nail said:


> I tried, really I did. twice. I might need 3 - 6 years to start understanding this one.
> 
> Here is what I have managed so far. Dough head hubby just doesn't get it. Reading love languages and her needs might help him, unless it doesn't. He seems to be continually pushing the wrong buttons. I don't know a man who doesn't miss the button every now and again, but this seems to be much more.
> 
> My suspicion is that he is actually getting worse at romance as the years pass. That somehow he managed to attract and Woo Elise, but has stopped putting in the effort, or worse yet forgotten how to reach her. Elise keeps saying she isn't sure it is worth staying for. Which I take to mean that she is tired of waiting for the old him to resurface.


Yep, I agree completely. But you do know I responded with reading the original post to someone else, don't you? They didn't know or see that she complained about more than just his gift-giving inabilities.


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## aquarius1

Couple of things here. Men are not good at guessing. It makes them really nervous. It is NOT romantic at all, but very necessary with most men to say "here. buy me this gift" and don't forget to buy me a nice card. 

Want flowers? ask for them. Don't complain "you never get me flowers" say " I would like some flowers next time you go out...be a dear and get me some will you?"

It's SO sad but so true. Men are really stressed by this stuff. My H has admitted his brain just doesn't work that way. 

Our 25th anniversary he got really confused because we had a fight and he didn't get me a card. I dropped everything and told him he better go to the store and get one PRONTO! or he may not see another 25 years (LOL) being married. He got the card, I was pissed, but he got it. and he was happy that he knew where he stood.

I'm not trying to make men seem like idiots. They are just wired differently and honestly just want us to be happy.

Similarly they think everyone thinks like they do, especially the young ones. Women are crock pots and have reactive desire. I've just taken the initiative with my H. Just tell them what you want. Don't be vague. Be specific. "I would like a back rub. Come here and snuggle with me." stuff like that. 

Too many of us are expecting men to be like women. THEY ARE NOT. Yours is young, you have to educate him in your ways. ALso read His Needs/Her Needs.

Please remember that while we women think that all men want is sex. Its not SEX they are craving, its how they show love and closeness. It is critical to their well-being, like oxygen. Meet in the middle. In this day and age we are expecting men to behave like women. They shouldn't have to.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Rub our belly, feed us, don't kick us too much and we come running with our tongue out!


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## personofinterest

It's sad so many people cannot or will not understand this is about MORE THAN A BAD PRESENT

Lord help


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## SunCMars

elise.marie said:


> Thank you! Seriously the gifts were examples to show how half assed he does things and that he somehow doesn’t know me and is that really worth sticking around for?


Am I getting the sense that you want to divorce?

That you have fallen out of love with him?

And, you want us to agree and say, yep, divorce him?

Rather than criticize him, look at him, closely. Has he changed or are you the only one who has changed?

You claim to be a beautiful gal, I believe that.
Is this a factor in all this? 
With other guys showing interest?

Are you ready to jump and bathe in the compliments?

If so, do so honorably, not by 'only' finding fault in the your husband.

Every man, every woman is going to have their share of faults, or things about them that others do not like.

Lacking compatibility is almost always the main reason for falling out of love.

Love him for what he gave you, then move on with dignity, giving him his dignity.

It is not necessary or fair to hate a man in order to leave and divorce him.

Life is short, never expect any man to make you happy. You have to make yourself happy. Any SO will only add to it, not be the main force.


KB-


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## uhtred

Its really difficult to get things for some people. What do I get my wife? She has enough money and Amazon to buy anything she knows exists and that she wants. We combine money so the value of the gift means nothing. We go on romantic dates and vacations all the time. I do buy her jewelry because it is the only vaguely romantic gift I can think of. Then take 30 birthdays, 30 Christmases, 30 valentines days. The ideas just run out. 

Same for me BTW - there is nothing I want that I don't already have. 


It used to be easier when I traveled more for work and she traveled less. I'd bring here exotic things from other countries - silk robes from China and the like. No though together we've been to more countries than I can keep track of. Everyone once I'll go somewhere exotic and bring her a gift, but that is really rare. 





StarFires said:


> Ohhh I have to disagree. She's not asking too much for him to put some thought into the gift and the occasion. Essentially saying "It's the thought that counts" is a bunch of rubbish to me if the gift isn't anything like the person's personality and types of things they would like and could actually use. I don't apply that pointless rule at Christmas time for family and friends and it doesn't apply between partners. Terrible gifts require no thought at all, so terrible is all they are. You appreciate the thought from your wife, but only strangers should have to.
> 
> Even for doing secret Santa at various jobs I've worked, everyone fills out a sheet of likes, favorites colors, etc. even down to what kind of candy bars they prefer so that when randomly drawing a co-worker's name, you can always refer to that when choosing their gifts. So you see, everybody is fully aware that some kind of thought should go into gift selection, and nobody really believes in "It's the thought that counts" when they receive a bunch of useless crap they don't like and have no use for that, particularly their own spouse, should know about them.


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## StarFires

uhtred said:


> Its really difficult to get things for some people. What do I get my wife? She has enough money and Amazon to buy anything she knows exists and that she wants. We combine money so the value of the gift means nothing. We go on romantic dates and vacations all the time. I do buy her jewelry because it is the only vaguely romantic gift I can think of. Then take 30 birthdays, 30 Christmases, 30 valentines days. The ideas just run out.
> 
> Same for me BTW - there is nothing I want that I don't already have.
> 
> 
> It used to be easier when I traveled more for work and she traveled less. I'd bring here exotic things from other countries - silk robes from China and the like. No though together we've been to more countries than I can keep track of. Everyone once I'll go somewhere exotic and bring her a gift, but that is really rare.


Ultred, this isn't about some people. It's about the man's wife. There is nothing difficult about gift-giving for anyone actually. It simply takes a little bit of consideration. There's nothing I can think of wanting either (except maybe another mink, impossible to have enough of those lol) but I've been so into Queen the past year and a half, so my husband noticed and bought me Queen in 3D along with a pretty blouse in my favorite color for my birthday. He didn't just go to a store and grab something off the shelf. See how easy that was? I have brass and marble horses all over the house, which is something he joked about when I met him "You don't like horses, do you lol?" He can buy me a horse anything (which he's done in the past) and I will be sooo happy. My husband isn't perfect and neither am I, but he's great a presents because he put some thought into them. Just a little bit of though is all that's required.

Does the man not know his wife's favorite color? And why has he never noticed the types of earrings she wears and doesn't wear? The little bit of thought he could have put into her gift was to spend just literally 5 seconds to look at her ears.

Three different guys I dated (at different times, of course lol) received driving leather driving gloves and a small mahogany jewelry box that I had monogrammed for them. Really nice and could be used for more than just jewelry. Something out of the box that isn't really considered a gift for a guy but works.


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## attheend02

StarFires said:


> Ultred, this isn't about some people. It's about the man's wife. There is nothing difficult about gift-giving for anyone actually. It simply takes a little bit of consideration. There's nothing I can think of wanting either (except maybe another mink, impossible to have enough of those lol) but I've been so into Queen the past year and a half, so my husband noticed and bought me Queen in 3D along with a pretty blouse in my favorite color for my birthday. He didn't just go to a store and grab something off the shelf. See how easy that was? I have brass and marble horses all over the house, which is something he joked about when I met him "You don't like horses, do you lol?" He can buy me a horse anything (which he's done in the past) and I will be sooo happy. My husband isn't perfect and neither am I, but he's great a presents because he put some thought into them. Just a little bit of though is all that's required.
> 
> Does the man not know his wife's favorite color? And why has he never noticed the types of earrings she wears and doesn't wear? The little bit of thought he could have put into her gift was to spend just literally 5 seconds to look at her ears.
> 
> Three different guys I dated (at different times, of course lol) received driving leather driving gloves and a small mahogany jewelry box that I had monogrammed for them. Really nice and could be used for more than just jewelry. Something out of the box that isn't really considered a gift for a guy but works.


I usually agree with you StarFires, but in this case I think you are oversimplifying. 
I have real anxiety with gift giving. I knew what type of jewelry my wife liked, but rarely felt comfortable buying it. I always overthought until it was too late.
Its hard to explain... 

I agree with POI that this is probably more than a gift issue, though, as was my case.


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## Prodigal

StarFires said:


> Read her original post, please.


Actually, I attempted to read her wall of text. Now that Matt has broken it into paragraphs, I see where I was remiss. Thank you.


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## MattMatt

personofinterest said:


> It's sad so many people cannot or will not understand this is about MORE THAN A BAD PRESENT
> 
> Lord help


Indeed. 

Look, @elise.marie, you seem to be married to someone who doesn't care to hoots about you or your child.

Your mom died, just before mother's day, on your son's birthday and he just goes off to work as if nothing had happened? wtf:

I mean, who does that kid of thing? Certainly not a husband.

I would suggest that marriage counselling might be of assistance, if that sounds like something he'd be amenable to?


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## CraigBesuden

StarFires said:


> Ohhh I have to disagree. She's not asking too much for him to put some thought into the gift and the occasion. Essentially saying "It's the thought that counts" is a bunch of rubbish to me if the gift isn't anything like the person's personality and types of things they would like and could actually use. I don't apply that pointless rule at Christmas time for family and friends and it doesn't apply between partners. Terrible gifts require no thought at all, so terrible is all they are. You appreciate the thought from your wife, but only strangers should have to.
> 
> Even for doing secret Santa at various jobs I've worked, everyone fills out a sheet of likes, favorites colors, etc. even down to what kind of candy bars they prefer so that when randomly drawing a co-worker's name, you can always refer to that when choosing their gifts. So you see, everybody is fully aware that some kind of thought should go into gift selection, and nobody really believes in "It's the thought that counts" when they receive a bunch of useless crap they don't like and have no use for that, particularly their own spouse, should know about them.


I would put it a different way. Yes, it’s the thought that counts. If your H spent three months and considerable effort getting you something that he reasonably should believe you’d like, even though you hate it, it’s the thought that counts. But if he spent no time or effort, then it’s the lack of thought that is the problem.

Similarly, how would you feel if you got the perfect card and gift from H... then realized that both the card and gift were picked out by — and his name signed by — his secretary?


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## CraigBesuden

aquarius1 said:


> Want flowers? ask for them. Don't complain "you never get me flowers" say " I would like some flowers next time you go out...be a dear and get me some will you?


I have a rule. Any day when I get off work and think “this is a beautiful day, nothing planned, I wonder what I should do,” I buy my wife some flowers.


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## aquarius1

I think its less about gifts and more about his emotional detachment. His lack of sensitivity or EMPATHY.
Most guys are not good at empathy either. Don't believe me? google it. Like my H did. "Why do men lack empathy?" its astonishing.

that said, I hate to be devil's advocate, but always in the back of my mind. Are his attentions going elsewhere?


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## SpinyNorman

If cutting off one of my fingers would make me good at arranging birthday celebrations that made my wife feel special I think I would do it. But it won't, so I try to think of stuff and always feel like what I come up with is stale and derivative. She seems to give me credit for trying. I don't think I'm insensitive and I feel like we really know each other on a deep level, but I am just not good at this.


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## aquarius1

StarFires said:


> Ultred, this isn't about some people. It's about the man's wife. There is nothing difficult about gift-giving for anyone actually. It simply takes a little bit of consideration. There's nothing I can think of wanting either (except maybe another mink, impossible to have enough of those lol) but I've been so into Queen the past year and a half, so my husband noticed and bought me Queen in 3D along with a pretty blouse in my favorite color for my birthday. He didn't just go to a store and grab something off the shelf. See how easy that was? I have brass and marble horses all over the house, which is something he joked about when I met him "You don't like horses, do you lol?" He can buy me a horse anything (which he's done in the past) and I will be sooo happy. My husband isn't perfect and neither am I, but he's great a presents because he put some thought into them. Just a little bit of though is all that's required.
> 
> Does the man not know his wife's favorite color? And why has he never noticed the types of earrings she wears and doesn't wear? The little bit of thought he could have put into her gift was to spend just literally 5 seconds to look at her ears.
> 
> Three different guys I dated (at different times, of course lol) received driving leather driving gloves and a small mahogany jewelry box that I had monogrammed for them. Really nice and could be used for more than just jewelry. Something out of the box that isn't really considered a gift for a guy but works.


I guess this proves my point StarFires. If he buys you ANYTHING to do with a horse, you are happy. He honestly doesn't have to uncover any secrets or stress.
Similarly with your Queen stuff. After 1.5 years he can assure its a sure bet. The blouse I will give him credit for. Fair's fair.


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## aine

elise.marie said:


> Ok so for the past few years my husband has grown increasingly less affectionate. I have tried talking to him about it in multiple different ways, offering solutions, telling him clearly what affection means to me etc. I’m a beautiful 25yr old women but he hardly touches me, our conversations are short all that kind of stuff, we have sex but he always just asks “wanna play?”
> 
> And I’ve told him many times that I’m not a light switch you can’t just turn me on I’d like some romance or foreplay or flirting or something ya know. I used to put so much effort into special date nights, special surprises for him, special birthday days with the works put into it but he never tries to put in ANY extra effort besides the absolute bare minimum for me. For example on our anniversary he asked me the night before what I wanted (and I feel like he should be able to find a gift or make something that reminds him of me or find a gift I like, does not need to be expensive I’m not high maintenance) so I was bummed thinking he might have had something special to cheer me up since my mom had just passed away and I had been super down, so I just told him to pick something, the next day he goes to the store comes home and hands me a box with jewelry, a fancy necklace, which would be fine except for this- I don’t wear fancy jewelry my ears are gauged and I wear hippy jewelry not fancy jewels on silver which he should have known right?
> 
> We’ve been married 6years. He also got me the same exact necklace for my birthday last year which shows he just goes and grabs something shiny assuming I’ll love it and it will work just because I’m a girl. Nothing to do with who I am or what he knows about me. My mom died in my arms the day before my sons birthday and a week before mother’s day this year and you know what he did? Went to work the next day on our sons 3rd birthday leaving me grieving and trying to give my son a somewhat birthday, then a week later finally gives me flowers for my mother’s passing but it was a “happy mother’s day/ condolences” bouquet in one and nothing else for mother’s day.
> 
> It’s not that I want him spoiling me senseless but I just feel like these things are showing he doesn’t care to put in any effort into our love. Yet when confronted he “loves me to death and couldn’t live with out me” blah blah blah. Am I expecting too much or am I right to feel like a deserve a little more love and affection and things that make me feel loved and appreciated in life? How can I make him see this? It’s like he thinks there’s no point in putting extra effort in anywhere and it’s a waste of time, then I hear of husbands or boyfriends who go all out on cute surprises for their lovers and I want him to want to do stuff like that for me but I’m starting to think he never will and he’s just keeping me around so he doesn’t end up old and alone, not because he’s truly in love with who I am and wants me to feel loved for the rest of my life. Is he just lazy? Is there chance for change?
> 
> Should a husband put more effort into affection and showing love with actions or am I delusional?


He sounds obtuse but sorry to break it to you, there are zillions of men who once they are married, have got the girl, move on to other things because the job of getting a wife, setting up home, getting her pregnant is done and dusted now they want to go out conquer the world and work, earn and take care of the family including the wife. 
The days of courtship are over, they have achieved what they wanted. It is sad but it is the way of the world in many marriages. You should listen to podcasts on the Love and Respect website to see what motivates a man. 

If there are certain things you need, you have to spell it out, ABC like, do not think he will understand, he will do what he used to do, he cannot guess or figure out through a process of osmosis.
Some men are plain lazy in that department and wonder when the wife walks away from the marriage after years of neglect.
You are still early in the marriage. Sit him down and tell him what you have told us. Spell it out. If he doesn't want to listen then you have a different kettle of fish. 
Then say 'Darling, I made it very clear what I needed, it appears you do not want to meet my needs for affection, therefore I am sorry, it means I have no desire for meeting your needs for play either. We can work on this together, if you do not want to I can only assume you have no desire for me and well it will not auger well for our marriage in the long term." 
Women are too often the keepers of the marriage, but after years of neglect it wears thin and believe me when I tell you menopause changes the whole dynamic as you will no longer want to be the keeper of the marriage, you wont care. So try and resolve this now.
If necessary go for counselling on your own. I honestly think your H is just being a typical male. You may even have to tell him exactly what you want. Ask him for the money, see the gift and say I want that one. Many men need to be told, they do not have time to guess what makes you happy. The men on TAM can give you alot more insight.


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## StarFires

aquarius1 said:


> I guess this proves my point StarFires. If he buys you ANYTHING to do with a horse, you are happy. He honestly doesn't have to uncover any secrets or stress.
> Similarly with your Queen stuff. After 1.5 years he can assure its a sure bet. The blouse I will give him credit for. Fair's fair.


A woman turns her back to her boyfriend/husband and asks "What color are my eyes?"

You've heard of that, I'm sure. It's all about a woman needing to know her man notices. And that's all gift selection is about.

Here's another example: I met a guy who lived in Toronto. He was visiting my hometown on business when I met him. Two or three weeks later, he had to be back in my hometown, so we decided to get together while he was there. When he arrived, he gave me a nice pair of wooden earrings.......that I absolutely hated and never wore. They were hoops as big as my fist lol. I appreciated that he did it though. That's one of the very few instances where it's the thought that counts because the guy didn't know me and had only met me once. 

The one and only time my husband gave me earrings, they were perfect. I don't wear chandeliers, light bulbs, or Hoola hoops hanging from my ears. The ones he bought were a modest size, just the way I like them. It makes no sense that Elise's husband never noticed her ears are gauged. There's no secret there to uncover any more than the fact that I like horses and Queen. All he had to do was notice. Horses in several rooms of the house, Queen and only Queen music playing around the clock, and holes in her ears the size of a dime, nickel, or quarter are the proverbial pink elephant in the room. It's impossible to miss them. 

Notice what she likes and a guy can't go wrong.

This guy is just void.....of everything.


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## SpinyNorman

StarFires said:


> A woman turns her back to her boyfriend/husband and asks "What color are my eyes?"
> 
> You've heard of that, I'm sure. It's all about a woman needing to know her man notices. And that's all gift selection is about.


HUH? 

I know my wife's eye color and numerous other biological facts, but that does NOT tell me what gift she will be delighted to get.


> Here's another example: I met a guy who lived in Toronto. He was visiting my hometown on business when I met him. Two or three weeks later, he had to be back in my hometown, so we decided to get together while he was there. When he arrived, he gave me a nice pair of wooden earrings.......that I absolutely hated and never wore. They were hoops as big as my fist lol. I appreciated that he did it though. That's one of the very few instances where it's the thought that counts because the guy didn't know me and had only met me once.
> 
> The one and only time my husband gave me earrings, they were perfect. I don't wear chandeliers, light bulbs, or Hoola hoops hanging from my ears. The ones he bought were a modest size, just the way I like them. It makes no sense that Elise's husband never noticed her ears are gauged. There's no secret there to uncover any more than the fact that I like horses and Queen. All he had to do was notice. Horses in several rooms of the house, Queen and only Queen music playing around the clock, and holes in her ears the size of a dime, nickel, or quarter are the proverbial pink elephant in the room. It's impossible to miss them.
> 
> Notice what she likes and a guy can't go wrong.
> 
> This guy is just void.....of everything.


Maybe some women have a well you can go to every year and they will think you are amazing. But I don't think they all do.


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## aquarius1

AGAIN PEOPLE let's not get caught up in the gift thing. The guy seems to be not in tune with his beloved on a lot of levels. This is the part that's hurting her.


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## StarFires

SpinyNorman said:


> HUH?
> 
> I know my wife's eye color and numerous other biological facts, but that does NOT tell me what gift she will be delighted to get.
> 
> Maybe some women have a well you can go to every year and they will think you are amazing. But I don't think they all do.


It doesn't appear you understood much of what I said or what saying it meant.


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## uhtred

Sometimes its harder. My wife likes photography and traveling. We do a lot of both together, but it isn't really a "gift". Surprising here with a trip to Rome would not be a gift - she needs to arrange travel with her work schedule etc. She has more photography gear than the CIA, there really isn't anything I can get her. 

I have done things like a "magic" bottle of massage oil - that comes with unlimited massages. But in reality she gets a massage whenever she wants anyway. 

In a lot of ways I'm worse. Recently she did come up with something very clever and appropriate to get me - but it was a one-time sort of thing. 

Some people are good at gift giving. Some think that they are, but really they just have partners who appreciate the effort, not the gift. Some, like me, know that they are bad about gifts.




StarFires said:


> A woman turns her back to her boyfriend/husband and asks "What color are my eyes?"
> 
> You've heard of that, I'm sure. It's all about a woman needing to know her man notices. And that's all gift selection is about.
> 
> Here's another example: I met a guy who lived in Toronto. He was visiting my hometown on business when I met him. Two or three weeks later, he had to be back in my hometown, so we decided to get together while he was there. When he arrived, he gave me a nice pair of wooden earrings.......that I absolutely hated and never wore. They were hoops as big as my fist lol. I appreciated that he did it though. That's one of the very few instances where it's the thought that counts because the guy didn't know me and had only met me once.
> 
> The one and only time my husband gave me earrings, they were perfect. I don't wear chandeliers, light bulbs, or Hoola hoops hanging from my ears. The ones he bought were a modest size, just the way I like them. It makes no sense that Elise's husband never noticed her ears are gauged. There's no secret there to uncover any more than the fact that I like horses and Queen. All he had to do was notice. Horses in several rooms of the house, Queen and only Queen music playing around the clock, and holes in her ears the size of a dime, nickel, or quarter are the proverbial pink elephant in the room. It's impossible to miss them.
> 
> Notice what she likes and a guy can't go wrong.
> 
> This guy is just void.....of everything.


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## personofinterest

This. Is. Not. Just. About. Presents.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> This. Is. Not. Just. About. Presents.


Yes. Its about bad presents.


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## In Absentia

Sounds like a typical man to me... :laugh:


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## UpsideDownWorld11

In Absentia said:


> Sounds like a typical man to me... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


Typical man thought: 'Maybe if I buy her something shiny, she will appreciate how much money I spent on her and hopefully shut up some and put out more.'

Typical woman thought: 'He just bought me this so I'll shut up and give him sex. But its meaningless and it just shows he doesn't even know me!'

Typical man thought: 'Foreplay starts inside the bedroom.'

Typical woman thought: 'Foreplay starts outside the bedroom.'


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## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> This. Is. Not. Just. About. Presents.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Its about bad presents.
Click to expand...

No

It's about his overall dismissal of her. No affection. No acknowledgement. No understanding in general.

But C+ for effort.


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## Blondilocks

Your husband is just a clueless sod. Really, 'Here's some flowers. Aren't I thrifty? Sorry your mom died and Happy Mother's Day! Do I get brownie points for being so insensitive?'

The best way to cure him is to treat him exactly the same way he treats you. With no thought and insensitivity.


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## Deejo

You cannot ask, or make him change. But ... you can control your behavior, which absolutely can influence his.

What do you do for him, that he either really appreciates, or straight up takes for granted? Make that list. And then stop doing those things.

You know that saying, "Actions speak louder than words?" That cuts both ways. 

Some may refer to this as petty, game-playing. I refer to it as ... effective.

It provides you with a platform that he can experience, and then you can relate how his behavior impacts you, and how yours impacts him. He will understand it at that point.

Ultimately, you may have to simply make the decision if the man you have chosen, was the right choice ... for you and what you want out of your life.


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## Deejo

Also wanted to follow up with, that often what we want, or need from relationships changes over time. I left my first wife for exactly the reasons you described. There was NO affection. She actually developed a sexual aversion to me based upon some health issues she experienced. 

When I was dating, everyone loves the concept and notion of seduction. It's new, it's exciting, unexpected. But I gotta tell you, after being remarried and 5 years into our relationship, and with kids in the house, seduction is utterly lost on my wife. It's wasted effort. All I need to do is say, "You wanna play?" And that is certainly fine by me. 

Just trying to offer perspective.


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## StarFires

Deejo said:


> Also wanted to follow up with, that often what we want, or need from relationships changes over time. I left my first wife for exactly the reasons you described. There was NO affection. She actually developed a sexual aversion to me based upon some health issues she experienced.
> 
> When I was dating, everyone loves the concept and notion of seduction. It's new, it's exciting, unexpected. But I gotta tell you, after being remarried and 5 years into our relationship, and with kids in the house, seduction is utterly lost on my wife. It's wasted effort. All I need to do is say, "You wanna play?" And that is certainly fine by me.
> 
> Just trying to offer perspective.


This isn't perspective regarding this woman. She stated she doesn't like that, so to suggest it works for your wife and what THIS woman wants is lost on YOUR wife is a concept that doesn't apply.


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## Deejo

StarFires said:


> This isn't perspective regarding this woman. She stated she doesn't like that, so to suggest it works for your wife and what THIS woman wants is lost on YOUR wife is a concept that doesn't apply.


I should have been clearer. I was offering my personal perspective in how my first marriage, related to her circumstances. I also had a spouse who had changed from initially appearing to be everything I hoped for in a partner, to being someone who wasn't very engaged in the relationship at all.

In my second marriage, I have a wife who is very affectionate, and distinctly, is never interested in being 'swept off of her feet'. Not making judgments, like I said, just offering contrasts.

Thanks for helping to clarify.


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## Blondilocks

personofinterest said:


> This. Is. Not. Just. About. Presents.


You're ringing the doorbell but there's no one home. They're going "I hear you knocking but you can't come in". They have a one-track mind.>


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## Yeswecan

elise.marie said:


> Should a husband put more effort into affection and showing love with actions or am I delusional?


Yes and no. Depends on what the other likes or sees as love/concern, etc. My W like you as described in your original post desires the same attention. To be truthful, it ain't that hard for me. In fact, I want to do those things for my W. She reciprocates. 

Your H is probably thinking he is doing everything right. Makes good money and bills paid. Do you have kids? If so, probably thinks he is a great dad(and probably is). However, he is missing the mark. That mark is you. He needs to figure that out because being a good provider and great dad is only part of what he needs to be doing.


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## Yeswecan

aine said:


> He sounds obtuse but sorry to break it to you, there are zillions of men who once they are married, have got the girl, move on to other things because the job of getting a wife, setting up home, getting her pregnant is done and dusted now they want to go out conquer the world and work, earn and take care of the family including the wife.
> The days of courtship are over, they have achieved what they wanted. It is sad but it is the way of the world in many marriages. You should listen to podcasts on the Love and Respect website to see what motivates a man.
> 
> If there are certain things you need, you have to spell it out, ABC like, do not think he will understand, he will do what he used to do, he cannot guess or figure out through a process of osmosis.
> Some men are plain lazy in that department and wonder when the wife walks away from the marriage after years of neglect.
> You are still early in the marriage. Sit him down and tell him what you have told us. Spell it out. If he doesn't want to listen then you have a different kettle of fish.
> Then say 'Darling, I made it very clear what I needed, it appears you do not want to meet my needs for affection, therefore I am sorry, it means I have no desire for meeting your needs for play either. We can work on this together, if you do not want to I can only assume you have no desire for me and well it will not auger well for our marriage in the long term."
> Women are too often the keepers of the marriage, but after years of neglect it wears thin and believe me when I tell you menopause changes the whole dynamic as you will no longer want to be the keeper of the marriage, you wont care. So try and resolve this now.
> If necessary go for counselling on your own. I honestly think your H is just being a typical male. You may even have to tell him exactly what you want. Ask him for the money, see the gift and say I want that one. Many men need to be told, they do not have time to guess what makes you happy. The men on TAM can give you alot more insight.


She needs no more insight than what you have written. You nailed it here. Nice post.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Now this has come full circle.

DW has told me I'm a bad gift giver but a good attention giver, just not in the presents department. 

I asked her to tell me what to get for her whenever, she complied, I get what she says, that problem was solved long ago.

So one proven concept is a man can pay attention to the love, touching, and caring items (and not just sex) and still not be able to acquire good presents.

Perhaps train him more about "not stuff" but the important acts of paying attention to you, which he may understand more easily. 

Yes, I know it's not about the presents, but that's why I'm focusing beyond the material.

Back to the basics; good communication is king. 

There is one "niggling" undercurrent of possibility here, is there a chance H may reach the "why are you hassling me" stage and think W may be ungrateful?

If he's old style, works hard, faithful, counting on W to hold tight while he's slaying a few dragons he wasn't counting on to keep food on the table, and she throws about words like "you're not there for me" that could be taken as a betrayal and cause a new series of problems.

One always has to be careful what one wishes for. It may happen quicker and without warning, one's perceived control of a situation could be built on shifting sands.

Just different perspectives thrown out here. No judgments.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Deejo said:


> You cannot ask, or make him change. But ... you can control your behavior, which absolutely can influence his.
> 
> What do you do for him, that he either really appreciates, or straight up takes for granted? Make that list. And then stop doing those things.
> 
> You know that saying, "Actions speak louder than words?" That cuts both ways.
> 
> Some may refer to this as petty, game-playing. I refer to it as ... effective.
> 
> It provides you with a platform that he can experience, and then you can relate how his behavior impacts you, and how yours impacts him. He will understand it at that point.
> 
> Ultimately, you may have to simply make the decision if the man you have chosen, was the right choice ... for you and what you want out of your life.


It is petty and will only drive a deeper wedge. He is likely clueless and thinks he is doing nothing wrong, and lets face it women don't always make things clear. Thus so many men are blindsided when wives ask for a divorce or take up company with another man. I can tell you, my first priority after marriage was taking care of our new family and some of that meant dating was not financially feasable especially with small kids. It didn't mean I didnt care or was not attracted, I was just trying to be responsible...

But there are other ways that likely he isn't aware of that if he knew or understood, he would do. But he needs some communication on understanding what makes her tick and that she feels neglected or what have you.


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## Deejo

Well, as I'm fond of saying; sometimes you need to break things some more, in order to fix them.

There is no wedge for him ... he isn't even aware there is a wedge. Nor could he claim to being blind-sided if she chooses to walk. She indicates that she has brought it up, over and over. 

A man not hearing (or caring) what a woman is saying, is certainly not an equivalent of she didn't say it.

Like I said, petty? Maybe? Will it get results? Absolutely.

Respectfully, I think folks contributing are getting a sense of inevitable writing on the wall based on a few posts. I hope Elise provides some additional details about the dynamic with her husband.


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## personofinterest

"A man not hearing (or caring) what a woman is saying, is certainly not an equivalent of she didn't say it."

This needs a neon blinking sign


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## SpinyNorman

StarFires said:


> Ultred, this isn't about some people. It's about the man's wife. *There is nothing difficult about gift-giving for anyone actually. *It simply takes a little bit of consideration.


I am thankful that you offer your perspective, but to state that it is no different for anyone sounds pretty farfetched. As someone who has probably bought gifts for more women than you have, I will state that they aren't a homogeneous lot.


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## SpinyNorman

aine said:


> He sounds obtuse but sorry to break it to you, there are zillions of men who once they are married, have got the girl, move on to other things because the job of getting a wife, setting up home, getting her pregnant is done and dusted now they want to go out conquer the world and work, earn and take care of the family including the wife.
> The days of courtship are over, they have achieved what they wanted. It is sad but it is the way of the world in many marriages.


Well you don't hate men at all, do you?

If you ask a straight man which clothes look good on a young attractive woman, he might be able to summon an opinion. If you ask him which look good on Judy Dench, you might as well ask him what color sound is.

Further, if I bought something that would look good on my wife when she was young, it had a chance of going over well. If I buy the same thing for her now, I am likely to get "I am too old to wear this." So if I buy her something "sensible" I will get "So you think I'm old." 

It really isn't the same ballgame it was back then.


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## SpinyNorman

personofinterest said:


> This. Is. Not. Just. About. Presents.


Don't think anyone said it was. But presents were one of the things TS brought up, so it is hardly a thread jack to discuss them.


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## She'sStillGotIt

MattMatt said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Look, @*elise.marie*, you seem to be married to someone who doesn't care to hoots about you or your child.
> 
> Your mom died, just before mother's day, on your son's birthday and he just goes off to work as if nothing had happened? wtf:
> 
> I mean, who does that kid of thing? Certainly not a husband.
> 
> I would suggest that marriage counseling might be of assistance, if that sounds like something he'd be amenable to?


The thing that stood out to me immediately is that the OP is only 25 years old - and says she's been married for 6 years. I'm left to assume that there were a few years of dating _before_ the marriage so we're looking at two teenage kids who committed *way* too early, married *way* too early, had a kid *way* too early, and not surprisingly, he's already showing signs of burnout. I mean, it ain't rocket science.

He's giving minimal effort (not surprisingly) because he sounds like he's on auto pilot. He was tied down WAY too young. Call me sexist all you want folks, but men just don't do so well in today's world when they commit in their teen years and are married fathers by the time they're in their early 20's. Don't get me wrong - that doesn't *absolve *him of his responsibilities, but you can't make him *feel *something he isn't feeling. And a marriage counselor isn't going to magically change how he feels either, but it's as good a start as any at this point.

I agree that this has *nothing *to do with presents.


----------

