# Women ?? I don’t understand



## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

I clearly don’t understand women and not only have no way of know if anything i do makes a difference. Can’t tell what to do to change that. Tried talking and giving her space, supporting with whatever i can. Im not perfect and do make mistakes, like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher wrong. We married for 18 years and i do love my wife and think she is sexy. 
But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore and now just feel like room mates with kids. 

We do have two boys and they keep us both busy with school and activities. 

We haven’t slept in the same bed for over 11 years and yes sex is out too. I have tried asking and talking about sleeping in bed and obviously sex. With no real answer, on whether she loves me or if in fact ever wants to sleep together. What do i do??? 
To be fair, in the past few months, stuff at her work has added stress to her life which i have tried giving her space and helping sort it out. 
Clearly there is always two side to the story and hence why i said i don’t understand women. Well my wife as i don’t talk to other women about person stuff. 
A few months ago i did try and talk to her. Basically if you don’t love me please let me know and let her know how I felt and what i would like to change. Hence i mentioned no real answer back. I did ask my wife if she loved me (face to face) nothing back. 

Now i cant afford to move out and she knows that and not to mention what this will do to the kids but surely an unloving relationship is worse? 

So now is what do i do, even her action indicates she hasn’t got feelings for me. 

We barely talk, i cant even look at her anymore. I just want her to be happy which she clearly isn’t with me and so i must assume maybe someone else can make her happy. Then at least ill know. 

Like the saying go’s a happy wife is a happy life. 

Please let me know what to do??

Help


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ask her to go to MC with you.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Ask her to go to MC with you.


She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s. Says she speaks to her friends. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so dont know.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Why you're still in that M is beyond comprehension.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s. Says she speaks to her friends. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so dont know.


It doesn't sound fine to me.
You need to sit her down and spell out how desperately unhappy you are and that you can't see the marriage lasting much longer unless things change.
Then say that you will make an appointment with a MC. That you really hope she will come but you are going anyway.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It doesn't sound fine to me.
> You need to sit her down and spell out how desperately unhappy you are and that you can't see the marriage lasting much longer unless things change.
> Then say that you will make an appointment with a MC. That you really hope she will come but you are going anyway.


I think you are right and unfortunately i suspect a negative outcome.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Husband? said:


> A few months ago i did try and talk to her. Basically if you don’t love me please let me know and let her know how I felt and what i would like to change. Hence i mentioned no real answer back. I did ask my wife if she loved me (face to face) nothing back.


That's your answer... just tell her you want a divorce, but be prepared to go through with it. See what she says. That said, you haven't had sex for 11 years. I think maybe you waited a tad too long to bring it up?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Husband? said:


> I think you are right and unfortunately i suspect a negative outcome.


If she thinks you are serious and that you may end the marriage, the shock may make her step up. I hope so.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Husband? said:


> But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore





Husband? said:


> even her action indicates she hasn’t got feelings for me.


Let me guess. 11 years ago is the time the "quiver" became full for her..... by that, I mean about the time you had your youngest child ??

Let me hazard another set of guesses....

My experience tells me that she did not "love" you in a sexual way even from the beginning. That you are a pack mule and a sperm donor. That sex has never been "high on her list".
It may have been with someone else, but not with you. Or, maybe not. That sex was the "ticket" to having children, and there's no more "need" for sex after all the children are conceived. 

To many women, sex is a "tool" that is used to procreate and to "get" "a" man. By "a", I mean that the specific man doesn't really matter. What matters are his "qualities". His ability to keep a steady job, his willingness to be a father. His "sexiness" doesn't matter because she either has never had real desire for sex, or she had sex with someone else before you (or, maybe during you) with someone who she considered "better" than you.

You say you "don't understand women".... but you and I are only speaking about ONE woman.... many women actually like sex and want it with their husbands. But, unfortunately, the woman you are married to doesn't.



Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s


Yes, meaning, that FOR HER, your relationship is PERFECTLY FINE, because she doesn't want sex. And, the fact that you DO want sex is inconsequential to her. She has a fulfilled life in her kids and her appurtenances which YOU PROVIDE.

However, the "same as everyone else's" only means that within the SMALL CIRCLE of women she discusses it with, their relationships are the same, because it is commonplace to find women who married a man for his "qualities". However, this isn't true for all women. 

Your wife is going to the ocean with a 5-gallon bucket, drawing it full of sea water, and concluding that because there are no fish in the bucket, there are no fish in the ocean. She is wrong.

A marital counselor may help. It may also help for her, and you, to understand "responsive desire".
RESPONSIVE DESIRE





Husband? said:


> I just want her to be happy which she clearly isn’t with me


I think you're wrong. She is happy with her life the way it is. You are just not a part of her life. Her house, her kids, her friends, her family (which doesn't really include you).


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Husband? said:


> unfortunately i suspect a negative outcome.


Me, too. My experience tells me this doesn't ever change. For it to change, your wife will have to change "foundational" "truths" (euphemisms for LIES) brought to her by the world's foremost authorities...... her family-of-origin.... and her friends, who grew up in similar families-of-origin.

Your wife is most likely, not willing to challenge these "authorities" (euphemism for strongholds).


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

TJW said:


> Let me guess. 11 years ago is the time the "quiver" became full for her..... by that, I mean about the time you had your youngest child ??
> 
> Let me hazard another set of guesses....
> 
> ...


This is hard to read, mainly cause its all true. And yes, one women. Youngest was a 11 years ago. I understand and clearly i focused on kids and everything else apart from our relationship in hope it would get better. Its not just about the sex, i miss the signs of affection. Holding hands, kissing, hugs. Thank you for your advise. I dont care about the stuff, if we get divorced she van have everything. All i want is for her to be happy. If that means without me then at least i know and my kids and see life / relationships are ment to be happy.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s. Says she speaks to her friends. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so dont know.


The relationship is fine because she is in control of it and you are isolated. Your needs and satisfaction do not matter to her.

You have attempted to talk to her to get a straight answer - if there is anything to save. No reply.

If you have the means to leave then do so. Don't waste more time on marriage that died years ago.

If you do choose to leave DO NOT announce your departure. Move out while she is at work so she cannot interfere.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

She has the life she wants and you either comply, deal with it. ,..... or leave....it's as simple as that really...

Counseling will likely go nowhere.,...

-You either find something on the side that scratches that itch, (but you know all the pitfalls there...)
-Divorce her and move on with your life...(plenty of pitfalls there as well...esp with kids..)
-Stay and be miserable. but sacrifice yourself for the kids, her well being, etc.

I know what I would do, but the choice is yours....She likely will not make some miraculous change and all of a sudden find you irresistible...These stories abound on here, and it's frankly depressing how some guys put up with this year after year....She has you in a true "no win" scenario....and she knows it..

She may actually give you some half assed duty affection/sex if you continue to complain about it and she sees her life would be turned upside down...Some think they can live with that....I find that absolutely abhorrent...but that's me...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Husband? said:


> Now i cant afford to move out and she knows that and not to mention what this will do to the kids but surely an unloving relationship is worse?


And she ALSO knows how willing you are to settle for *nothing* because you're STILL there after 11 years of being treated like her distant 3rd cousin, and worse, you're still begging her to love you. Ugh.

*Find your spine, OP. *


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Why can’t you move out? 11 years of marriage without sex and probably emotional indifference is soul crushing. I would rather live in a small apartment alone than with a wife that is repulsed by me. I bet that if you did a proper investigation, you will find that your wife has been in a very long term affair. It’s probably with a married guy who won’t leave his family but he’s stringing your wife along by future faking.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

the wife is probably thinking... oh, sh!t... he's woken up!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s. Says she speaks to her friends. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so dont know.


Just because your W speaks words doesn't make them true.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

jsmart said:


> Why can’t you move out? 11 years of marriage without sex and probably emotional indifference is soul crushing. I would rather live in a small apartment alone than with a wife that is repulsed by me. I bet that if you did a proper investigation, you will find that your wife has been in a very long term affair. It’s probably with a married guy who won’t leave his family but he’s stringing your wife along by future faking.


I cant afford to just move out and what about the kids. She know this


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

A sexless marriage, besides a well diagnosed medical problem, is also and always a loveless marriage.
And by sexless I don´t mean only nor mainly the specific "doing it". Even frequent maintenance sex is a bit less than nothing-
A relatonship without mutual desire and intimacy is an empty bottle with a label that identifies what´s not inside.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Husband? said:


> I cant afford to just move out and what about the kids. She know this


why can't you move out? Are you employed? Is she employed?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Husband? said:


> Like the saying go’s a happy wife is a happy life.


If you're inclined to buy that nonsense, I have an enormously large bridge to sell you.



> Please let me know what to do??


That said since your wife hasn't behaved like a wife through 11 long years, I think you ought to divorce her.

Although as a grown man, you ought to make your own decisions.



Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s.


On the other hand given the above delusion, I also think you should feel free to start sharing sex with other women, whether you divorce her or not. Since your wife has forfeited any moral entitlement to sexual fidelity from you, ever since she turned the sex tap off.

Good luck.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> why can't you move out? Are you employed? Is she employed?


 Both employed, im thinking about the kids and paying bills and food on the table.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Thanks all, appreciate it


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Husband? said:


> This is hard to read, mainly cause its all true. And yes, one women. Youngest was a 11 years ago.


She is waiting this marriage out.

She is hoping you will hang. 
That you will hang in there long enough for the 11 year old to make it to what, 18?

Maybe, a little more while starting college, or finding a job.

She is an automon, a robot, maybe an auto-mom.

If cyborgs exist, she might be one. 

I only say this because we do not know whether she is getting her sexual needs met elsewhere.
We assume that she is selfmade, spayed.



_Mabel-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> That said since _*your wife hasn't behaved like a wife*_ through 11 long years, I think you ought to divorce her.


Bingo, Ringo!

You have no wife, only that homemaker.

Fire the homemaker, divorce her, get a warm, a real, flesh and blood, wife.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

My book is aimed specifically at the bedroom issue (and your issues go beyond the bedroom... as they all do), but you'll find some nuggets of wisdom and some real ah-ha moments in it: *"The Dead Bedroom Fix."*


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Husband? said:


> This is hard to read, mainly cause its all true. And yes, one women. Youngest was a 11 years ago. I understand and clearly i focused on kids and everything else apart from our relationship in hope it would get better. Its not just about the sex, i miss the signs of affection. Holding hands, kissing, hugs. Thank you for your advise. I dont care about the stuff, if we get divorced she van have everything. All i want is for her to be happy. If that means without me then at least i know and my kids and see life / relationships are ment to be happy.


You are not the first to express this problem. You are about the third or so in the last week or two. You know what most guys do about this problem? Nothing. You know what changes? Same.

Wjo would want to live a life that is shared with a person that does not love them?
What you are wanting is commonly found around the world. Few perfect relationships, but at least there’s love and sex regularly.

Only you can change your life. You’re about 10 years, a decade, overdue on doing something about this. You don’t need to go to counseling, you don’t need to ask your wife questions. You’ve got 11 years of answers and opportunity for your wife to change.
It’s time to see an attorney and cut her loose.
I’m sorry.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Husband? said:


> Both employed, im thinking about the kids and paying bills and food on the table.


You’re thinking about that but is your wife? No wife who loves her husband and family would put her family at risk by cutting her husband off sexually. Along with the no sex, I’d bet she’s as affectionately warm as your fridge. That’s not normal. That’s not love. That’s not ok. 

I treat my wife with love and affection both inside and outside of the bedroom because I value her AND my family. If I didn’t, then I would be putting my family’s stability in danger or forcing her into a miserable existence, so she would be eating a sh!t sandwich to keep the family intact. That is what your wife is doing to you. Forcing you to eat the S sandwich. You’re enduring instead of enjoying family life.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

It won't save your marriage, but read The Rational Male books, several times. It won't be pleasant but if you really want to understand what's going on that's a place to start.


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## fluffycoco (May 29, 2021)

Personal said:


> On the other hand given the above delusion, I also think you should feel free to start sharing sex with other women, whether you divorce her or not. Since your wife has forfeited any moral entitlement to sexual fidelity from you, ever since she turned the sex tap off.


I would say He'd better have sex with other women during that 11 long no sex with wife years.


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## Aintaps (Oct 25, 2021)

TJW said:


> Let me guess. 11 years ago is the time the "quiver" became full for her..... by that, I mean about the time you had your youngest child ??
> 
> Let me hazard another set of guesses....
> 
> ...


I really didn’t like reading TJW’s response. But that’s because it made me feel sad because it’s true. The issue is that she settled before getting married. The attraction didn’t come naturally and had to be built up over time. So now that things have waned, and she’s got the kids, the effort on her part to her sexual is too much because women’s sexual appetite is closely linked to emotional. She will respect and care for you. But no sexual desire. It would mean moving mountains of effort for her to have sex and she finds it easier (and happier) with you being around but in a different room. 
And yes, her desire hasn’t disappeared for sex… it’s just with someone else in her mind most likely.
My advise as a woman, is to move on, if you can. It sounds like she’ll resent you at first but you’ll likely be amicable later I think. You both deserve better from the sexual desires in life.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

A happy wife would be on your **** atleast a couple night of the week. So you are right, she isn't happy and you are miserable. You need to stop thinking about her happiness and think about your own. Maybe that means divorce or maybe if you really want to keep her, start changing things up. For instance, if you are not happy with your sex life then start going out at night. You are married not in chains. Maybe you have friends to hang out or even better a gym to make yourself more fkable. Hell, you might find some sexy ladies to flirt with. Maybe you are done with women and want something else. The possibilities are endless. The point is your wife can come along or not, but if she can't even say she loves you and hasn't touched you in years, why stay and suffer? Get out there. Don't lie to her, just put her on notice. Or embrace your misery.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

TJW said:


> Me, too. My experience tells me this doesn't ever change. For it to change, your wife will have to change "foundational" "truths" (euphemisms for LIES) brought to her by the world's foremost authorities...... her family-of-origin.... and her friends, who grew up in similar families-of-origin.
> 
> Your wife is most likely, not willing to challenge these "authorities" (euphemism for strongholds).


Yep she also has formed opinions about you that it's going to be near impossible to change. If you start trying to fake the funk she will see right through it. You need to stop thinking about her period. Do whatever the hell you want. Don't do it for her. Maybe she will come around, maybe not but there is no reason to be married if this is all you get. Your marriage ended 11 years ago, she just never notified you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

_You don't understand women?_


Being partnered does not mean_ "one of the same flesh"._

All of us have separate needs and wants. 

A good partner shares most of yours.
Yours doesn't.

Can it be more simple?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Regarding your thread title, you don't need to understand women, you just need to understand your wife. That is a lot simpler, but doesn't reveal much that is positive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't understand men like this. Even one would blow my mind but there appear to be many.

11 years???!!!!?? No sex, affection, intimacy or sleeping in the same bed even??????

11 days with no affection, sex and sleeping in a different bed would get papers drawn up.

I can go a ways without sex( not 11 bloody years or even months) but not one day without signs of love and affection.

Tap into your inner Ghengis. Hopefully he will wake up from his coma.

Take testosterone if you have to but strenuous exercise and resistance training should increase your T levels.

Get a separation agreement drawn up so you can become roommates for real. You can still look after the kids and go out once or twice a week to pursue women with a temperature above room.

This is a workable option.

If your wife has friends that agree with what she is doing, they are probably taking tea in a cemetery.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Husband? said:


> Both employed, im thinking about the kids and paying bills and food on the table.


Dude, you don't have a marriage, you have a roommate. Guess what? You can get a roommate anywhere. You come looking for advice but offer nothing but excuses in return. You've been a doormat for 11 years. That's all you know. So you might as well lay down and be the best doormat that you can be.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

You don't have to understand women. Thinking you have to is fallacy.

You do need to have a fact based concept of how they think, and a firm reality on how they can and will act.

Complemented by your own firm foundation of your life that allows you to observe a woman's actions without doubting yourself when you see both crazy and good actions. IE don't fall into the trap of trying to justify any woman's actions through rose colored glasses.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Regarding your thread title, you don't need to understand women, you just need to understand your wife. That is a lot simpler, but doesn't reveal much that is positive.


If you successfully alter between the 'Deer in Headlights' look and the 'Hampster on a Wheel' Smile and nod, I find you can make it through most days.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

You can move out. She can too. You can split the income such that you both can afford a small place. You can sell what you have if you own it and split the equity or both get smaller rentals. I would start there if she doesn't go to MC. Tell her you both need to start looking for new places to live. And hire an attorney. I did this about 25 years ago. I couldn't afford to move if she stayed there, so the answer was to let her know she was moving too. It's not best for your kids to learn maladaptive, dysfunctional spousing. If you stay with her, your kids will learn how to weaponize sex and how to master manipulation. It will not help their future. If you split, they will get through this and live to see both parents much happier without each other


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fluffycoco said:


> I would say He'd better have sex with other women during that 11 long no sex with wife years.


No, encouraging cheating is not ok at all. 

Cheating is dishonest. There are better ways than this is handle the situation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Husband? said:


> This is hard to read, mainly cause its all true. And yes, one women. Youngest was a 11 years ago. I understand and clearly i focused on kids and everything else apart from our relationship in hope it would get better. Its not just about the sex, i miss the signs of affection. Holding hands, kissing, hugs. Thank you for your advise. I dont care about the stuff, if we get divorced she van have everything. *A**ll i want is for her to be happy. If that means without me then at least i know and my kids and see life / relationships are ment to be happy.*


All you want is for her to be happy? This is a huge part of the problem. You have been willing to make her happy even if it hurts you horribly and destroys your marriage. That's not the way it should work. You BOTH need to be happy. You BOTH should be striving to meet each others needs.

You are teaching your children that this is what a marriage/relationship looks like. Is this really what you want your children to learn?

If she will not meet your needs, then you need to stop meeting her needs. Start taking care of yourself and your children. Let her fend for herself as much as possible. You can build a stronger bond between you and your children. Put your efforts into them. Start taking them places, just you and them. You also need to let your wife know that you are profoundly unhappy in this marriage since she withdrew from it 11 years ago and you consider yourselves just roommates now. If she wants to work to change that you'll consider it.

And start working towards a divorce.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Husband? said:


> I cant afford to just move out and what about the kids. She know this


Then get a second job.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

Maybe women looks like marriage like this, they went a family, someone they can call “husband”, have kids, have career (for some, it maybe stay home mom), some kind of financial stability. So that when they talk to their peer, they are “marriageable material”, and not one of those girls that can’t get anyone to marry them. 

and once they achieve that, they just shut down down thinking “I got what I wanted from “marriage”, I am done.I will take care of my need and nothing else.”

I don’t know, at least that’s what I think what my “roommate” is thinking. LOL


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Husband? said:


> I clearly don’t understand women and not only have no way of know if anything i do makes a difference. Can’t tell what to do to change that. Tried talking and giving her space, supporting with whatever i can. Im not perfect and do make mistakes, like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher wrong. We married for 18 years and i do love my wife and think she is sexy.
> But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore and now just feel like room mates with kids.
> 
> We do have two boys and they keep us both busy with school and activities.
> ...


This is not a marriage. You have a housemate. Do both of you a favor, start divorce proceedings.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Husband? said:


> I cant afford to just move out and what about the kids. She know this


Talk to a divorce attorney who can lay out what the split would likely look like. You don't need to tell your W about it and it doesn't commit you to any course of action, but it is good info to have. If your W has told you anything along these lines, it is propaganda.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Husband? said:


> She says our relationship is fine and the same as everyone else’s. Says she speaks to her friends. I don’t have anyone to talk to, so dont know.


Sir, this one hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, triggered me hardcore. 

She spoke to her friends. Her f-ing friends. 

My wife used to feed me this crap. I used to listen to it as well years ago. Not any more.


I had to teach her that her friends truly suck ass and are nothing more than wet blankets. I informed my wife that all of their husbands hate their lives as well. I guarantee you that your wife did the same as mine. Spoke with very specific friends (maybe one or two) that were the prudiest prudes on the planet so that they could feed your wife's confirmation bias. The last thing your wife wants to hear from other women is that she is a TERRIBLE wife. BTW, your wife knows she's terrible as well. 

There is only one cure for this problem. Action by you. You have to get yourself to a point where you no longer care about the outcome. She either starts being a good wife and partner to you, or you leave. If you can't afford it, divorce her anyway. You already have the roommate thing down. Hell, you don't even sleep in the same room. Once you are divorced, why should she care of you bring other women home to your bedroom? She shut the faucet 11 years ago. None of this should bother her one bit.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sir, this one hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, triggered me hardcore.
> 
> She spoke to her friends. Her f-ing friends.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree about laying it out. If they aren't financially to live separately, he should make it clear that if all they are just roommates, they can still live together and act like roommates.
It might change her tune, if she understands what that means.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Just divorce her. She hasn’t tried to be your wife for 11 years. Whether you can afford it or not - move ASAP. That way you can begin to live again - and have a chance to be happy.

you wanting HER to be happy at all cost to you? That’s a bunch of crap. Marriage should be happy for both people - and if it isn’t - then divorce - life is too short to be unhappy staying married.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sir, this one hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, triggered me hardcore.
> 
> She spoke to her friends. Her f-ing friends.
> 
> ...


There is emotional labor, i.e. his wife might be identifying as them having sex once or twice a month and her friends confirm this is normal. 

It is also the UK, the relationship responsibility tends to fall onto the man rather more than most western nations. If something is wrong or he is not happy, it will seem obvious that it is his fault.

Clealry, he should suggest MC, though it is likely too late. And, say it is a last minute bid to save the relationship. But, the challenge is the OP will se this as entirely his failing to make his wife happy and live up to his duties as a man, father and husband.


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## Jackierossbabe (Oct 26, 2021)

Get thee to marriage counseling ASAP!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I think three or four posters have suggested marriage counseling. To me, it doesn't sound like a promising case. For MC to work, both partners have to want it to work. But his W doesn't want change. She's fine as things are. 

MC won't achieve anything until he gives her a reason to want it to work (eg filing for divorce). He has sufficient legal grounds for divorce, if his version of the story is accurate. 

As things are, if she agreed to go to MC, she'd probably just sit there and recite complaints against him.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


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## Husband? (Oct 25, 2021)

Asking if she loves me; 
I have never said I don’t love you. Life has changed. You are thinking of a time when we had no children and just had to think about ourselves. What we wanted to do. Now the children come first, because we decided to have children, they didn’t ask to be born. They take my time and my energy and by the end of the day I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Husband? said:


> Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


 When did you talk to her about divorce? How long ago?

You the two of you own the house you live in?

She says that she's unhappy. Did she say why she's unhappy? Did you ask her?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Husband? said:


> Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


11 years??? How has she coped without having sex for 11 years?

What happened for her to move out of your bedroom 11 years ago?

This bit about her saying that your request for divorce is going to ruin the kids lives doesn’t make sense? So she doesn’t want one? She’s tacked that bit on the end which reverses what she said about being ok with it. (Yet she moved out 11 years ago?) So she’s using it as ammunition and doesn’t actually want one. How come?

Another question, you mention you can’t afford to move out, worried about costs etc. Yet you’ve told her you want a divorce and you want to move out. Is there a missing piece here?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I am finding your comments a bit confusing, eg she says the relationship is fine, like everyone else's, and then she says she's not happy either. Also like LL says, you say you can't consider moving out, and then you say you've discussed it. You need to start talking straight.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

A loveless marriage and parents not showing affection does affect the kids. When they grow up they will choose for themselves what they’ve seen in the home - that’s what’s familiar to them. To them - that’s what love looks like.
You want them to choose a marriage like what you’ve had?
If not, explain to them that this isn’t happy and it’s not adequate - so they don’t choose it for themselves as they get older.
The fact that your wife is also unhappy but doesn’t intend to change it says a lot - you won’t be able to expect her to change.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Husband? said:


> Now the children come first,


WRONG. This is an "old-wives-tale" (upon whom your wife seems to place a lot of confidence for her life-leadership). She has been led astray, believed a lie.



Husband? said:


> I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


No, sir. She is implying that she is in "priority 2", below the kids. LIE. Truth is, she is 100% ALL ABOUT HER. Kids and motherhood "trip her trigger".....reality is, she is the one in pole position, and on the throne of her own life.



Beach123 said:


> The fact that your wife is also unhappy but doesn’t intend to change it says a lot - you won’t be able to expect her to change.


Not only a "lot"..... it says it ALL.....I'd agree, change isn't coming.....because, change would mean that she would actually have to dethrone herself, and obey the command of Our Lord to "love thy neighbor as thyself", meaning you, in this case.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> A loveless marriage and parents not showing affection does affect the kids. When they grow up they will choose for themselves what they’ve seen in the home - that’s what’s familiar to them. To them - that’s what love looks like.


Nah....I doubt kids care more about whether their parents are having regular sex or not, or a hug and kiss on the way off to work.... the only things they care about is are they being cared for, are safe, have their essential things they need, etc...I mean, I witnessed my own father throw chairs and physically abuse my mother, but that would be unthinkable and I would never consider it under any conditions whatsoever...Kids don't necessarily just repeat what they see....

I am not saying don't leave, but all this crap you always hear about kids caring about their parents emotional well being, or whether or not they are getting laid, is IMO, just talk to make people feel better about breaking up a family with little kids, etc....And if/when they leave what guarantee is it that their parents are now going to be truly happy? I mean, they could just as easily be going from the kettle into the fire...I have seen it numerous times...For sure, at the very least, there will be a pretty significant financial downgrade....

Again, not saying don't leave, but let's not just dismiss the issue of the kids...It doesn't sound like the OP and his wife are necessarily acrimonious or there is a lot of fighting and yelling and screaming...If that is the case, and the kids are being loved and cared for properly, a divorce wont make their lives any better...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Husband? said:


> Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


Like their life is fine now in a loveless marriage. This is BS... you only have one life: get out of this hell.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Husband? said:


> Asking if she loves me;
> I have never said I don’t love you. Life has changed. You are thinking of a time when we had no children and just had to think about ourselves. What we wanted to do. Now the children come first, because we decided to have children, they didn’t ask to be born. They take my time and my energy and by the end of the day I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


Unless a newborn, or medical issue, no, children don't always come first. That's the first wrong thinking.

The relationship between spouses comes first.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Before you talk about divorce you need to get your ducks straight.

It seems you don't even know what the process or the outcome of divorce is. 

Talk to a lawyer to see what are your rights in your state. 

You are not divorcing your kids. You are divorcing your wife. You are going to be around your children depending on whatever schedule you both agree on. 

If your youngest is 11, it means your kids are not babies and probably getting very independent. Your wife's excuse about being exhausted because of caring for her children is an exaggeration. She wants you to feel guilty and insecure about leaving her. Life would be pretty hard for her if you leave the house. It's all about her, not the children. 

Figure out what you want to do, the way you want to live and do it. Stop being so insecure about yourself!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Husband? said:


> Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


this tells me everything I need to know about your wife. I’ve heard enough.

this is a manipulation tactic. Nothing more. She is purposefully draining the Life from you without a concern in the world about how you feel. She is horribly selfish while she goes on to live a nice comfortable life. This woman is awful. She can’t even tell you that she loves you.

she is trying to shame you into being a doormat. She is pulling in the kids as a prop to do that. That is a very low blow. Clearly, she doesn’t realize that if you are happy in your life, you tend to be a better parent. Her argument is pure crap.

when she says “if you need to move out” you take her up on that. She is saying that because she doesn’t think you’d do it. Prove her wrong. Wouldn’t be surprised if she changed her tune.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

Husband? said:


> Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


Do you want your kids to be happy now or to have happy lives? I can guarantee you that the kids are not happy and they sense that things are not right. And they initially will not be happy if you file for divorce. But, they learn about happiness from modeling you and your wife. If you want to teach them what happiness is, you are going to have to do it after this marriage. They are learning what marriage is like from you and your wife. If you want them to have successful marriages, you will have to get out and hopefully someday find a great wife and show them what love is, what companionship is, what being a team is, what caring about each other is. Right now you are teaching your kids that marriage stinks, that Dads aren't important to Moms, that if you have kids they will take over your life and you will be tired and miserable (what your wife is saying). They are also learning that friends are more important than spouses. All of these lessons can doom their own marriages in the future. What a messed up, dysfunctional thing to teach kids. Kids are a product of a marriage, not the intent or focus of a marriage.


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## Yoni (Feb 7, 2021)

Ok. Even you tried give her space or give her everything you could there's time you couldn't help things out. When she act that way just leave her alone cool off. There's something stressing her. And she need alone time. All you need do is be patient. Don't ask about sex or don't ask about nothing. Just be patient. Then she will return


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Husband? said:


> Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.


Words are one thing when she is fully confident you will not leave. Nice of her to throw in a little guilt about destroying your children's lives.

Leave and see what she says. Co-parenting is done by many couples and successfully.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Husband? said:


> Asking if she loves me;
> I have never said I don’t love you. Life has changed. You are thinking of a time when we had no children and just had to think about ourselves. What we wanted to do. Now the children come first, because we decided to have children, they didn’t ask to be born. They take my time and my energy and by the end of the day I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


Excuse after excuse. She has never said she doesn't love you. That would be too easy. Would recommend you pay attention to a persons actions, not their words if you really want the truth. Over these last 11 years? what have your wife's actions or lack of actions told you?

She will never give you a straight answer or closure. That would allow you to break free of her hold.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Using the kids to put you in your place. Sad.

she’s exhausted after being with the kids all day? ********. I have three kids. I am and was with them all day all the time. I like my kids, and enjoy spending time with them. I’m not exhausted after a day with them…. What is this exhaustion crap????

Lazy ass people get “exhausted” really easily.
I suspect your wife is too damn lazy to have sex with you.

I’m Curious. What do YOU feel you’d be missing if you divorced? What do you think your kids would miss? They might very well like living with you more and not your wife. I don’t know. But, I will say this: You count too. Your feelings count. Your desires count. Your dreams count. I dare say your current wife is not exactly a dream boat.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You have taught her how she can treat you. Being a martyr is hard thankless work. When your kids grow up and leave they aren’t going to care much. Until you wake up you’ll just get more. The sad part is you’ve taught your kids this is acceptable.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

All this belief that the minute you set yourself free of this(or any) marriage, then Shangri La is just waiting for the OP as soon as he gets divorced is ridiculous....For some, it happens, for a lot it doesn't...and never does....

At best, all you have is_ hope_.....depending on the point you are in life and your general desirability, that could mean a LOT of miserable and lonely years...I know plenty of guys in this boat....some couldn't get laid in a whorehouse on dollar night(not that sex is everything, but that's the primary complaint of the OP, lack of affection/sex)....quite frankly, they were fortunate to find the one woman they had that actually got near their junk...

Also, Ill never criticize someone for wanting to put their kids first, because honestly, that's what a lot of people do and never regret it......You can waste your time(and take valuable time away from your kids) with a bunch of train wrecks, kissing a lot of frogs, in hope that you can capture some of the magic you are seeking....But for many, it's slim pickings, really....unless your standards are very low...and this isn't only for men, obviously the same applies for women in this situation....

Tons of good and desirable men and women never leave their situations that are similar to the OP's,,,They have their own coping mechanisms, but this group represent a LOT of people that never hit the market...annd likely never will...

All that said, you obviously can't continue the status quo,.,,, She controlled this part of the game, now it's your turn...Figure it out...yes, consider the kids....Take stock of yourself from the aspect of being able to live a comfortable life alone, and what you need to do....Instead of wasting money on a counselor, use that money instead to get a meet up with a CPA or financial planner and run all the numbers....Shift your efforts from trying to get anything from her because that ship sailed, and focus instead into being the best dad and the best man you can be ...If you are out of shape and need a general makeover, work on that as well...That will help as well, once the time comes to make that move....Don't say anything to her, just do it on your own....she doesn't have to know anything about what you are doing or planning..


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Just move and file for divorce. You don’t need to feel his way any longer - by being around her!
You can be happier all on your own. You can mid l a happy parent to your kids yourself!
It’s way better than being too in an unhappy union and have the kids think that’s what marriage looks like. They will grow up and choose that for themselves too - thinking it’s normal.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> I am finding your comments a bit confusing, eg she says the relationship is fine, like everyone else's, and then she says she's not happy either. Also like LL says, you say you can't consider moving out, and then you say you've discussed it. You need to start talking straight.


I think he’s opted to bypass a few questions and clarify some discrepancies


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Husband? said:


> With no real answer, on whether she loves me or if in fact ever wants to sleep together. What do i do???


she doesn't love you the way you love her. She loves you based on what you can do for her. She's not attracted to you amigo.



TJW said:


> That you are a* pack mule* and a sperm donor.


Bingo. Read TJW's post over and over until it sinks in. Better yet. Do you want to understand women?

Download this book. The Manipulated Man by ester villar. You'll find all your answers here amigo. 

After you read this one, I'll give you another one.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Husband? said:


> Her response to asking for divorce; I am sorry you are not happy with your life. I am not happy either but I get up every day and do what I need to to give our kids the best life I can. I don’t know how I can make you happy, so if you think moving out will do it then that’s what you need to do for you. Just think about how you will destroy your children’s lives, because they will be the ones paying for your happiness with their own.





Husband? said:


> Asking if she loves me;
> I have never said I don’t love you. Life has changed. You are thinking of a time when we had no children and just had to think about ourselves. What we wanted to do. Now the children come first, because we decided to have children, they didn’t ask to be born. They take my time and my energy and by the end of the day I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


Wow! My heart goes out to you. You are clearly not going to change her and she clearly has no desire to change herself. Therefore, if you want your life to improve, you need to change yourself and your situation.

May I suggest getting MW Davis book, the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Both books talk about things you can do to change your life that will change the dynamics within your marriage such that things may improve or get worse. Both books suggest you take up some hard physical hobbies that challenge yourself and get you in better physical shape. One of the things you can do is to either in the evenins or weekends is to exercise with your children and ot your wife. It will be a way for you to bond with your children and if your wife complaines about being exhausted will provide her with a break. The exercise can be mild, going for a walk, pushing s stroller, going swimming with them, etc. Or it can be quite physical, such as jogging, bicycling, hiking, rock wall climbing, etc. 

The point is you need to start changing yourself and building self confidence. Then you need to develop a plan for your life. If you don't you will die unhappy. Figure out what you want to achieve in 5, 10, 20 years. Make a plan and make it happen. Make sure that at each step, you include your children in your plans. Your wife can join you or wave goodbye at her choosing.

Live life, Get a Life. Good luck. Your situation is only hopeless if you do nothing.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Her attitude is almost nihilistic. Her use of the kids to justify her lovelessness towards you is stone cold. She knows exactly how to improve the happiness in the marriage, it just involves doing things she doesn't want to do with you.

Your kids won't thank you for staying in a miserable marriage.

I'd be honest with her and say that you want someone to be your life partner, not just a co-parent. The kids won't be kids for ever and what will be left once they fly the nest? You can either start sorting things out or join the every growing ranks of newly divorced empty-nesters in 10 years' time.

My only other advice is to really make sure you are prepared for divorce. Divorce in the UK is a horrible ride for an unprepared man. The only men I know who were remotely happy with the outcome of their divorces were those that had done the homework and approached it in a dispassionate way.


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## Aurinkoinen (Nov 1, 2021)

Husband? said:


> I clearly don’t understand women and not only have no way of know if anything i do makes a difference. Can’t tell what to do to change that. Tried talking and giving her space, supporting with whatever i can. Im not perfect and do make mistakes, like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher wrong. We married for 18 years and i do love my wife and think she is sexy.
> But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore and now just feel like room mates with kids.
> 
> We do have two boys and they keep us both busy with school and activities.
> ...


From someone who has been in your wife's position... hope it is not too late;

Your wife must have dropped silent/loud hints during your marriage. Can you remember what she was asking for?

It is twice as hard for a woman to stay in a loveless marriage. Women need emotional support from their husbands, just a little bit, so they will more than happily satisfy their husbands' sexual needs. Satisfy her emotional needs and she will satisfy your sexual needs with a smile on her face.

What has she asked before she shut down? Because once the emotions die due to the husband ignoring them, she becomes cold. 

Think of it like this; a cow walks a long way if you remember to feed it a little grass every now and then. No grass, no happy cow.

Please don't overdo it, don't go from one extreme to another, that will only enrage her. I remember how the ex was 'blindsided' when I left him. Heck I had begged him every now and then for at least one emotional text message, for him to say I love you at least once a month, for him to embrace me without having sex on his mind... I learned to avoid him at home, knowing that if he grabs me it will be sex sex sex, only about him, not about me.

There must be something beautiful about your wife, something new you come up with frequently; like the color of her eyes, beautiful nail polish, beautiful hair.... she will slowly but surely look at you with love and affection. She will want to be near you and she will initiate sex. She will be as close to you as possible.

Just hearing your husband every now and then compliment you, tell how beautiful you are, how happy she makes you... when the husband gives positive emotional attention to his wife, she will be happy and in love. 

You can do like my ex did, when asking him why he never fulfilled my small emotional needs, free of charge, he had the nerve to say "Oh well, you satisfied all my needs so I didn't think your needs were important". I had one request; fulfill my emotional needs, just a little, and I will be happy to serve you. But nope, that was too much to ask from him - and he made the mistake of suddenly showering me with gifts, trying to make up for Valentine's day, birthday, anniversary, Christmas and so on. Day after day when I already told him I was leaving him. Those days I begged him year after year to celebrate with me, and he thought he could suddenly make up for all missed holidays.

Or you can start remembering what your wife used to complain about, what she wanted you to do and you didn't do and take it from there. You know how it takes time for a well to function? If you have the patience you have the privilege to witness how your wife slowly but steadily feels safe to shower you with her emotions.

Believe me, there comes a time when a woman just knows, that showing any emotions to their man only annoys him. So she closes up.

Husband, there must be a myriad of compliments you can tell your wife, each day a new compliment. 

Do you remember what she has complained about during the last 11 years? It is your roadmap to her heart. 

Lots of Love to both of you.


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## Angel wings (Oct 31, 2021)

Husband? said:


> I clearly don’t understand women and not only have no way of know if anything i do makes a difference. Can’t tell what to do to change that. Tried talking and giving her space, supporting with whatever i can. Im not perfect and do make mistakes, like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher wrong. We married for 18 years and i do love my wife and think she is sexy.
> But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore and now just feel like room mates with kids.
> 
> We do have two boys and they keep us both busy with school and activities.
> ...


Ask her what more must you do to make her happy because it evident you doing something wrong.. Or she just have mood swings but seek professional help.. But be prepared for her response...


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Husband? said:


> Like the saying go’s a happy wife is a happy life.


Nope, Happy Spouse, Happy House.



LATERILUS79 said:


> Sir you are divorced, why should she care of you bring other women home to your bedroom? She shut the faucet 11 years ago. None of this should bother her one bit.


No no, it absolutely will bother the kids, don't ever do this.



Husband? said:


> *Now the children come first*, because we decided to have children, they didn’t ask to be born. They take my time and my energy and by the end of the day I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy to do anything for myself, but then you want me to do more to make you happy?


Omg no, they don't. Certainly not all the time. 



hamadryad said:


> Again, not saying don't leave, but *let's not just dismiss the issue of the kids*...It doesn't sound like the OP and his wife are necessarily acrimonious or there is a lot of fighting and yelling and screaming...If that is the case, and the *kids are being loved and cared for properly, a divorce wont make their lives any better.*..


I agree with this 100%. Barring abuse, obviously, divorce won't enhance a childs life one iota. That doesn't mean the parents just continue to live in misery either, it means they owe it to their children to do EVERYTHING in their power to keep the family together. No matter what it takes. Next time your wife throws the children in your face, respond with "No, they didn't ask to be born, their happiness is everything to me, if you're serious about putting them before us, and wanting them to be happy, you'll join me in doing all we can to improve our marriage".


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

Husband? said:


> I clearly don’t understand women and not only have no way of know if anything i do makes a difference. Can’t tell what to do to change that. Tried talking and giving her space, supporting with whatever i can. Im not perfect and do make mistakes, like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher wrong. We married for 18 years and i do love my wife and think she is sexy.
> But i think she did love me once but doesn’t anymore and now just feel like room mates with kids.
> 
> We do have two boys and they keep us both busy with school and activities.
> ...


It's a happy SPOUSE is a HAPPY HOUSE. Take her flowers and make her taco soup. She will love you, and appreciate you for forever!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> It's a happy SPOUSE is a HAPPY HOUSE. Take her flowers and make her taco soup. She will love you, and appreciate you for forever!


Can I order taco soup to go?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> It's a happy SPOUSE is a HAPPY HOUSE. Take her flowers and make her taco soup. She will love you, and appreciate you for forever!


During the 11yrs of no sex and not sleeping in the same bed, it ain't the lack of flowers or taco soup.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

What's that smell the Zombie Cat Zombie Thread Team detect? Why, yes! It's the smell of a long-dead thread. They're dealing with it now.































Zombie Cat is not 100% certain who the rugby playing sheep or his human servant are, however.


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