# Wife's not interested, I'm frustrated and feeling abandoned



## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

We've been married a long time. Kids are grown and in college. My wife has virtually no interest in intimacy or sex. I've tried to communicate my feelings to her and asked what we can do. I get virtually no response from her. She says "I love you" to me. But, the actions don't match the words. If I try to hug her, she acts like I'm inconveniencing her. When I try to kiss her, she often turns so that I'm kissing her cheek instead of on the lips. Kinda like kissing an aunt or grandma.  It's been many years since she has really shown any interest in doing things together in or out of the bedroom. Besides no sex, we hardly do anything together. Trips to Costco together don't count! I've told her that I feel we are more like room mates than husband and wife. I've asked her to participate in some of my hobbies or interests. But, she hasn't warmed up to any. 

Based upon some internet searches, I found the book "Sex Starved Marriage" and gave it to my wife to read. She promised to read chapter 1. I'm not optimistic. But, if that doesn't have any effect, then I will suggest counseling.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Due to certain health issues, I've changed my eating habits and exercise regularly. I've lost weight and gained muscle and am in pretty good shape. My wife has no interest in going to workout or eating more healthy. This is just another factor affecting our relationship.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

I suggest you go on and ask if she is open to marriage counseling because I highly doubt a book is going to get her in the mood or suddenly prompt her to want you. You need to find out why she lost that loving feeling and counseling should be helpful in bringing thoughts, feelings, complaints, concerns to the surface.

So it occurs to you the necessity and benefit to working out and being a healthier person and it affects your relationship that she has not had the same epiphany?

Please get counseling. You have a lot to discover.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

"Please get counseling. You have a lot to discover."

Sounds like a pat answer. 

I was diagnosed T2 diabetic. Through meds, eating properly, working out at the gym and cardio, my blood sugar is under control. I've seen the benefits. She's also seen the benefits. But, doesn't choose to do it herself. Yes, it's frustrating. What's to discover?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

txhunter54 said:


> I've asked her to participate in some of my hobbies or interests. But, she hasn't warmed up to any.


What are her interests, have you tried to incorporate yourself into her hobbies as a start? 

Does she have any resentment towards you? Is she depressed?

Sometimes in marraige, spouses become almost "numb" after awhile, after wanting something /expecting and getting little to nothing in return. Just as you are starting to Hurt -even resent the lack of Affection & Sex. 


Can you elaborate on what you may have done, or not done to lead to this place -with your wife? Please do not take these questions personally, the asking, it is just to help with the roots of the possible why's & where to go, how to get back on track, if you can do this yourself. She may need something more to get her motivated. More from your end, any thoughts. ?? 

Congratulations on getting the Type 2 under control !


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

It's wonderful you were prompted to discover the benefits of changing your lifestyle and eating habits, but that your discovery causes a problem in your marriage is.....a problem - something that just a few months ago meant no more to you than it means to your wife. Now you want to judge her that she doesn't have the same revelation. The fact itself is not a problem. That you make an issue of it is the problem. In other words, you, not your wife, are the reason this is "_another factor affecting our relationship_".

I don't know what a "pat answer" is, but there are many reasons a woman loses desire for sex. Some don't lose desire for sex but lose desire for their husband. Again, there could be any number of reasons for that. One that often applies is built up resentment for her husband's behavior and the way he treats her. If the health and fitness issue is any indication, you may discover in counseling that you are the reason your wife no longer has intimate feelings towards you. In the instance of the health and fitness issue, it would be nice if your wife and everyone on earth made the same discovery you suddenly made. She didn't, so you make it a point of contention between you. You turn it into something that affects your relationship. She might not appreciate being judged and might not appreciate you forcing your new-found opinion on her and resents it. Using this issue as an indicator, she has more reasons for her resentment. It isn't likely this behavior is new with you.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Her main interest is quilting. She could do it 24/7. She is great at it. But, it's not my idea of fun at all. I'll give her input on patterns and fabrics and compliment her on her quilts. 

Susan, I haven't forced working out or my other hobbies on her. I've asked her if she wants to come along and join in. She declines. I prepare my meals to stay on my eating program. She prepares her meals which typically don't fit into my eating program. You keep using the word "discovery". Being diagnosed with a disease isn't really a discovery. Learning to eat healthy and workout isn't a discovery. It's a lifestyle choice. Let the disease win or fight. I chose to fight.

I as diagnosed with T2 diabetes in Jan 2009. It only took about 4 months to get it under control. I'm lucky in that regard. Could the period of undiagnosed diabetes have affected our relationship? Definitely. I didn't think I felt bad. But, I wasn't healthy. High blood glucose can and does affect moods. Getting healthy after being sick helps you to better understand your body's needs both physically and mentally. Making good food choices helps me to stay healthy. Avoiding the blood glucose spikes helps me mentally and physically. 

Being healthy physically and mentally allows me to see more clearly what is missing in our relationship. Could she be depressed? That is a definite possibility. The kids are out of the house and in college. She is on blood pressure medicine and frequently comes home from work and says she is tired and has a headache. So, that is a signal to me to steer clear.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I think I've been turned down by my wife with her using all the typical excuses: I'm tired, I'm reading my book, I'm watching my show, I'm sewing, it's that time of the month, it's too cold in here (winter), it's too warm in here (summer), i'd get sweaty, I have a headache, etc. The constant rejection made me not want to even try. We've had recent events in the last couple of years that I would have thought might get her excited. (buy new house, finish a significant remodeling, anniversaries, etc.) I buy her flowers periodically too. She says she likes them and says they are beautiful. But, nothing else. 

She recently had a birthday. I had a hard time picking out a card because of the current state of our relationship. I asked her what she might like for her birthday and she said that she hadn't really thought about it. It's very frustrating. 

When she is with our friends or her friends, she carries on like everything is normal and happy. We'll have a good time with friends and then I would hope the good times would carry over to later. We had friends over last night. I did the bbqing and she handled the other food. Played board games and had a good time. Then, she stayed up to watch tv and came to bed late. By that time, I was asleep. 

I don't think she has picked up the book I gave her and read any of it yet. Somewhat understandable given the holiday weekend.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The Rosetta stone. 

Tex,
On any given night each of us is in one of 3 sexual states:
- ON 
- Neutral
- OFF (exhausted, truly upset about a specific event, angry/resentful at our partner about something tangible)

I found a LONG time ago that the key for a high drive, low drive couple is to get the low drive partner to teach you how to get them from neutral to warm to ON. 

For many people a nice full body massage that "slowly" becomes more erotic works like magic. But the thing is the low drive spouse MUST acknowledge that they are responsible for making the EFFORT to make their partner happy. 




txhunter54 said:


> I think I've been turned down by my wife with her using all the typical excuses: I'm tired, I'm reading my book, I'm watching my show, I'm sewing, it's that time of the month, it's too cold in here (winter), it's too warm in here (summer), i'd get sweaty, I have a headache, etc. The constant rejection made me not want to even try. We've had recent events in the last couple of years that I would have thought might get her excited. (buy new house, finish a significant remodeling, anniversaries, etc.) I buy her flowers periodically too. She says she likes them and says they are beautiful. But, nothing else.
> 
> She recently had a birthday. I had a hard time picking out a card because of the current state of our relationship. I asked her what she might like for her birthday and she said that she hadn't really thought about it. It's very frustrating.
> 
> ...


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

Ok, I'm a wife and I have a husband who probably thinks about the same as you do. In fact, he's in bed sleeping now. I wanted to tell you a little from my perspective.

First thing...EVERY girlfriend of mine who is a mother and wife tells me the same thing. We talk about it for hours. If we never did "it" again it wouldn't bother us. In fact, we worry that if something happened and we COULDN'T, that you would leave us because you make it sound like something you can't live without.

Second thing...the birth control/monthly cycle problems. Sometimes my husband acts like I'm using that as an excuse. Let me tell you, without being too graphic, we women find it to be FAR more inconvenient than you will ever know. Imagine being in the middle of grocery shopping and suddenly having to go to the sanitary items, buy something and use the bathroom because you have suddenly realized you were in trouble....Add kids! It's a blast. Personally, I have been trying to find something that works well for birth control and to lessen those monthly issues. So I tried Seasonique. You're supposed to only get your cycle once every three months. Well, today is July 5. I got some "spotting" that started on June 20th and hasn't stopped yet. I am NOT at the end of the 3 months. So now what do I do? BTW, it's disgusting! I definitely don't feel sexy! I'm thinking, "Do I call the doctor? Wait it out? Is there something wrong? Why is this not working?" All this, and I'm supposed to be worried that my husband isn't getting enough sex???!!

That brings about the third thing. I have spent nights crying and wondering what is wrong with me. I KNOW I have no desire. I'm SORRY. I don't know where to get desire! Yes, when my husband tries to hug me or kiss me, I shy away. Because he will think that a quick hug means we can go jump into bed right now. Also, he has a terrible sense of timing. When kids are asking questions, I'm making dinner and I've just broken a glass...it's not a good time! Yes, I'm exaggerating, but I swear sometimes I'm stymied. 

Here's a little something to think about too. I have had 3 natural childbirths. Not too long ago I read an article that talked about hollywood women getting surgery to "tighten up the muscles" down there. Maybe it's just not the same for us as it used to be. 

So, there you go. My first post. What a rep I'll have! Just know this: there is no book, no therapy that is going to bring it back. I love when my husband does the dishes or brings me flowers, but I NEVER, EVER, EVER think, "We should have sex." It is something that just doesn't ever come into my mind, except that I worry about keeping the peace and know that I have to deal with it now and then.

~K


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BorrowedHalo said:


> Ok, I'm a wife and I have a husband who probably thinks about the same as you do. In fact, he's in bed sleeping now. I wanted to tell you a little from my perspective.
> 
> First thing...EVERY girlfriend of mine who is a mother and wife tells me the same thing. We talk about it for hours. If we never did "it" again it wouldn't bother us. In fact, we worry that if something happened and we COULDN'T, that you would leave us because you make it sound like something you can't live without.
> 
> ...


first off welcome and thank you for your complete honesty. have you conveyed all of this to your husband? that in itself might help him deal with what he is likely already viewing as a disfunctional marriage. while your reasons for not wanting sex are valid to you, you have basically just stated it is you that is the problem. i think most women would acknowledge that a healthy sex life is key to a happy marriage, no less than emotional connection and communication. both parties need to feel fulfilled.

feeling like you have to "deal" with it is only pity sex, he knows that.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

She hasn't read any of the book yet. More of the same. She said, "I love you" as I headed off to work. I said, "I love you too".

It's almost like she doesn't want to acknowledge we have problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> She hasn't read any of the book yet. More of the same. She said, "I love you" as I headed off to work. I said, "I love you too".
> 
> It's almost like she doesn't want to acknowledge we have problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to tell her that we need to seek counseling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

I just don't think it's a problem. I think it's normal. All our lives we have been told that it's supposed to "peak" in our 30's. Well, I've lived for 8 of those years and I'm still waiting. Then, we're given a ton of media BS like "Desperate Housewives" which lead us to believe that 30-something women are sex-starved. But, in real life, it's not like that. 

I have asked my OB/GYN and guess what she said? She said, "I hear that from most women." 

I have friends who have gone to counselling. If you think it will help, go ahead; but I will tell you what they will tell you. The counselor will say that you have to bring her flowers, do the dishes, take out the trash, listen to her, validate her feelings. These things will make her feel closer to you and then she will want to do it all the time. So, then you will do all of this and you will expect her to want it. Then, if she DOESN'T want it she will feel like something is wrong with her and she should do it because you did what you were supposed to do. Do you see where that is a vicious cycle?

Maybe instead of expecting her to do it/want it more, you should see if you can find something to make you never want it like she does. Why is it fair to assume that she needs to change?

~K


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> I just don't think it's a problem. I think it's normal. All our lives we have been told that it's supposed to "peak" in our 30's. Well, I've lived for 8 of those years and I'm still waiting. Then, we're given a ton of media BS like "Desperate Housewives" which lead us to believe that 30-something women are sex-starved. But, in real life, it's not like that.
> 
> I have asked my OB/GYN and guess what she said? She said, "I hear that from most women."
> 
> ...


So, I should accept a marriage without intimacy and sex? Find something to never want it like she doesn't want it? Got any suggestions? I have no idea what you are trying to say here. If I wanted celibacy, I could have gone in the priesthood.

I'm starved for affection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Were you never attracted to him?




BorrowedHalo said:


> Ok, I'm a wife and I have a husband who probably thinks about the same as you do. In fact, he's in bed sleeping now. I wanted to tell you a little from my perspective.
> 
> First thing...EVERY girlfriend of mine who is a mother and wife tells me the same thing. We talk about it for hours. If we never did "it" again it wouldn't bother us. In fact, we worry that if something happened and we COULDN'T, that you would leave us because you make it sound like something you can't live without.
> 
> ...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BorrowedHalo said:


> Maybe instead of expecting her to do it/want it more, you should see if you can find something to make you never want it like she does. Why is it fair to assume that she needs to change?
> 
> ~K


if your going to try and argue that sex is not necessary in a healthy marriage, i think you will get no where.

the "she" your refer to will find herself looking for a new man and one that shares her total lack of interest in sex, or she will live the rest of her life as a lonely old maid, if thats not incentive enough for her to at least want to try and fix things, then have at it.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> First thing...EVERY girlfriend of mine who is a mother and wife tells me the same thing. We talk about it for hours. If we never did "it" again it wouldn't bother us. In fact, we worry that if something happened and we COULDN'T, that you would leave us because you make it sound like something you can't live without.


And is a marriage something you can live without? I know from my perspective if the intimacy dried up, so would my interest. As much as you may be uncaring about intimacy, most males find it that important. I love my wife, but if we were never intimate, I would not be able to have the same feelings and love for her I do. I was up front with her about that though even before we got married. We have had times when intimacy suffered, but we have always worked through it and got back to normal. 



BorrowedHalo said:


> Personally, I have been trying to find something that works well for birth control and to lessen those monthly issues. So I tried Seasonique. You're supposed to only get your cycle once every three months. Well, today is July 5. I got some "spotting" that started on June 20th and hasn't stopped yet.


Birth Control may be some of the reason you are having no-sex drive. I know with my wife once she went off of the pill, she's had a strong sex drive ever sense. If yall are done having kids, what about talking to your hubby about getting snipped?



BorrowedHalo said:


> Here's a little something to think about too. I have had 3 natural childbirths. Not too long ago I read an article that talked about hollywood women getting surgery to "tighten up the muscles" down there. Maybe it's just not the same for us as it used to be.


My wife has had 3 natural childbirths (and is about to have a 4th). Your vagina is MADE to go back to normal after childbirth. Women have done it for hundreds of thousands of years. 



BorrowedHalo said:


> It is something that just doesn't ever come into my mind, except that I worry about keeping the peace and know that I have to deal with it now and then.


Kudos to you for being honest. But this forum is filled of stories of men and women who were denied intimacy finally tiring of it and divorcing their spouse. 

If you found that every time your foot hurt when you walked would you ignore it? Would you just say "That's the way it is, oh well" and leave it at that? If 2 of your friends feet also hurt when they walked, would you just accept it? Or would you exhaust every avenue possible to find out why it hurt and find a way to fix it?


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> Maybe instead of expecting her to do it/want it more, you should see if you can find something to make you never want it like she does. Why is it fair to assume that she needs to change?
> 
> ~K


What is the different between a persons best friend in the world and a spouse? Intimacy. If all someone wanted out of a relationship was friendship, what's the point of marrying that person? A marriage without intimacy is just two friends living in the same house. And honestly in most cases that doesn't last long as one of the friends will no longer be able to take it and will move on to find someone to be intimate with. Intimacy is a cornerstone of human nature. If sex was not a primary function of us, there would be no humans left to run around. Without sex, no new births, no next generation. To ignore sex is to ignore a vital aspect of human nature.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

Crypsys said:


> If you found that every time your foot hurt when you walked would you ignore it? Would you just say "That's the way it is, oh well" and leave it at that? If 2 of your friends feet also hurt when they walked, would you just accept it? Or would you exhaust every avenue possible to find out why it hurt and find a way to fix it?


If you had a hurt foot and you went to doctor after doctor and said, there must be something wrong with my foot and every doctor said, "I see a lot of people with this problem. I don't think you have anything to worry about." And then, you talked to five or six close friends and you said, "I have a sore foot." and they all said they had sore feet as well. How could you come to any conclusion other than the one that says, "Sore feet are normal."???

If you look at my original post, you'll see where I said that I have spent nights in tears. I hate feeling like I'm defective. Someone on here asked if I had EVER been attracted to him. It's not about attraction. There is NO ONE that I would want to have sex with. I don't think about it. I only notice how long it's been because I know HE knows how long it's been. I love him and I am sad that I don't want to do it as often as when we were first together and first married. My libido went out the window after the birth of my first child. With the next two, we knew the conception date because it was the ONLY date. (Within reason) 

If someone knew how to fix all of us "ruined women", I'd love to hear it. I've looked online to see if I could find something to make me "normal" again.

I'm just saying, from the wife's point of veiw, imagine if half the influential sources in your life said you were just like them (friends, doctors) and the other half said there was something wrong with you (men, media). Feeling like you are a freak can lead to divorce just as quickly as not being intimate.

~K


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

Crypsys said:


> What is the different between a persons best friend in the world and a spouse? Intimacy. If all someone wanted out of a relationship was friendship, what's the point of marrying that person? A marriage without intimacy is just two friends living in the same house. And honestly in most cases that doesn't last long as one of the friends will no longer be able to take it and will move on to find someone to be intimate with. Intimacy is a cornerstone of human nature. If sex was not a primary function of us, there would be no humans left to run around. Without sex, no new births, no next generation. To ignore sex is to ignore a vital aspect of human nature.


So, as long as you have sex, you don't really need to like each other? Sex is more important than friendship? You would never marry someone because you LIKED them? Only because you would want to have sex with them, and IF you liked them, that'd be great too? 

There are babies being born without sex (IVF) pretty regularly these days. 

We expect people (at least I expect my teens) to not have sex before marriage. How can we expect some people to get a grip on their hormones and then say others just have no control but it's ok because they're married?

Last, I find it interesting that no one has commented on this from my original post. We women talk about this from time to time. What if we COULDN'T have sex anymore? What if we were paralyzed or something? Would you have to leave us because you wouldn't be able to live without it? And don't say "that's different." Because it isn't.

~K


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

And BTW, I hope no one is offended by my comments. I'm really trying to make coherent, logical arguments; and I swear I'm not trying to make anyone mad or be disrespectful.



~K


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> If you had a hurt foot and you went to doctor after doctor and said, there must be something wrong with my foot and every doctor said, "I see a lot of people with this problem. I don't think you have anything to worry about." And then, you talked to five or six close friends and you said, "I have a sore foot." and they all said they had sore feet as well. How could you come to any conclusion other than the one that says, "Sore feet are normal."???
> 
> If you look at my original post, you'll see where I said that I have spent nights in tears. I hate feeling like I'm defective. Someone on here asked if I had EVER been attracted to him. It's not about attraction. There is NO ONE that I would want to have sex with. I don't think about it. I only notice how long it's been because I know HE knows how long it's been. I love him and I am sad that I don't want to do it as often as when we were first together and first married. My libido went out the window after the birth of my first child. With the next two, we knew the conception date because it was the ONLY date. (Within reason)
> 
> ...


Your response is similar to someone in an abusive relationship. If all you have experienced was abuse, you might conclude the abuse is normal. But, you would be very wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

My wife and I went through this funk last year after our 3rd child. She just didn't want sex or didn't need much of it. Once a month was more than enough and I let it slide for way too long and alot of anger built up to the point that I was verbally abusive with her. That in turn made her want to have less sex.

I finally confronted her about our sex life and she just kinda shrugged it off and things got to the point that we were just roomates. I finally issued an ultimatum stating that once a month was not gonna cut it. Things started getting better after a couple of months of arguing and talking and arguing and talking, etc...

Things went from once a month to once a week, to twice a week to 3 times a week as I just kept on pushing my limits. It seems 3 times a week is our magic number now and I'm more than happy with this, even though 7 days a week would be better :smthumbup:

After our sex life picked up, we were touching each other more, holding hands again, saying I love you, texting each other. Basically acting like teenagers when we're in our late 30s, ok almost 40 lol.

It's all about communication, someone has to make the 1st move. No matter how bad it can get, as long as you both can open up and get down and dirty as to why sex has died down things will work out in the end.

Worst case is that you find out your SO just does not want sex anymore no matter what and you can decide what to do at that point. If she's keeps just ignoring the situation, keep bringing it up till she gets it through her head that it's something that is very important to you and needs to be talked about. Get ready for some yelling and crying along the way just in case.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

BorrowedHalo said:


> So, as long as you have sex, you don't really need to like each other? Sex is more important than friendship? You would never marry someone because you LIKED them? Only because you would want to have sex with them, and IF you liked them, that'd be great too?
> 
> There are babies being born without sex (IVF) pretty regularly these days.
> 
> ...


you are working hard to justify having zero sexual desire. IMHO you feel bad enough about it to come on here and talk about it, you are getting alot of advice but very little sympathy. have you seen a doctor? do you have the courage to tell your husband that you will never want sex again and if he does he needs to move on, why do you hold him hostage?


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm in a similar boat to you Halo but I have never had a sex drive. I find the term "ruined women" a bit wrong though - there is nothing wrong with us, we just don't have the urge as much as others. We are not abnormal, just different. I think labelling yourself as "ruined" is a self-defeating thing and would not do much for your self esteem. Its hard not to, what with the media, friends, family, etc all saying we are flawed but the bottom line is, they are only acting this way because we are a sexualized society - it is ingrained in us since birth every time we turn on the tv, listen to the radio etc. And it doesnt help that we are in the minority.

But either way, our partners DO have what we do not have, and there is no denying it. They have needs - took me a while to realise that it is not a want for them, it is a need. Just like for me, emotional intimacy is a need. Same thing just different outlets. 

I feel you on everything you said in your post - I have had issues with pretty much each one of those things and yeah it sucks. As painful as it was, I was brutally honest about my feelings to my husband about it. In the end we compromised. He told me how many days he would like it a week(7), and I told him how many days I would like it (0 lol) and we decided on something in the middle which he finds satisfactory, yet I can tolerate. I added an extra day to that because I realise what his needs are. But during the act, even though I feel no desire whatsoever, don't orgasm or become aroused, etc, I make it a fun thing to do. The "fun" thing worked wonders - I don't dread it anymore and according to him, I look a lot more enthusiastic. I try to be open to trying new things and I try not to put any "rules" in to limit it. If I am uncomfortable with something I decline and we can do something else. But for me it is a fun time between partners and so I look forward to it a bit. And he seems to really enjoy it. We don't have any arguments about it anymore either, which is good. I don't know if the "fun" and "lighthearted" thing we do would work for other couples but it seems to work well for us.


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Oh to the OP, do you think the "fun" thing would work with your wife? For us, serious sex can't help but focus on what we CAN'T do (and makes us feel depressed and worthless) whereas if its a fun thing, the whole dynamic changes and we are more focused on what we CAN do and the enjoyment we get out of it. Just an idea anyway.  Ofcourse if there was a way to reawaken her desire I would go that way first but if not... it's just an idea you could try!


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> So, as long as you have sex, you don't really need to like each other? Sex is more important than friendship? You would never marry someone because you LIKED them? Only because you would want to have sex with them, and IF you liked them, that'd be great too?


Nope, never said that Halo. I love my wife and I would not have married her if I didn't love her. At the same time, I married my wife because: Shes my best friend, Shes my sounding board and shes my spouse. But again, I have many friends who I am close to, and in their own way, I do love them. But I have no want or desire to be intimate with them, they are just that, friends. My spouse on the other hand is the one woman in life I promised to love and be married to. If intimacy were not part of the marriage, how can it really even be a marriage? I made it very clear when we were dating that physical intimacy was very important to me and something I would/could not live without. The same as my wife told me emotional bonding was important for her. If I were to just loose my drive to give her that emotional bonding she needs, then she would have a right to divorce me. It's a two way street.



BorrowedHalo said:


> There are babies being born without sex (IVF) pretty regularly these days.


And there are people who have same sex marriages and people who choose not to marry. Honestly that's peoples own decision and I do respect that its their life and their choices, that's fine with me. But as much as we'd all like to think we are some higher beings, we still have biological urges that have allowed the species to thrive for many millennium, the urge to procreate. People who do not have the urge to procreate are not the majority here.



BorrowedHalo said:


> We expect people (at least I expect my teens) to not have sex before marriage. How can we expect some people to get a grip on their hormones and then say others just have no control but it's ok because they're married?


Because marriage is a social contract agreed upon by all parties to be in a monogamous, sexual relationship. In pretty much every world religion, not having sex is grounds for a no-fault divorce. The whole point of marriage is to be with someone who you love both mentally AND physically. Otherwise, again I ask why even marry? Why not just be friends?



BorrowedHalo said:


> Last, I find it interesting that no one has commented on this from my original post. We women talk about this from time to time. What if we COULDN'T have sex anymore? What if we were paralyzed or something? Would you have to leave us because you wouldn't be able to live without it? And don't say "that's different." Because it isn't.
> ~K


Is it different? Is your lack of desire something new, or has it always been there since day one? If it's been there since day one, did you tell your spouse about it? Or, did you hide it? If it hasn't always been there, have you gone through and exhausted all avenues of medical testing, both biological and mental? 

If my wife were to be struck down today and never able to have sex because of a physical ailment, yes I would stay with her. But, if her lack of physical intimacy was a lack of simple desire, I would work with her to find a reason. With my wife at least, I know she has a pretty strong desire and for her to just loose it would point to something being wrong.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> And BTW, I hope no one is offended by my comments. I'm really trying to make coherent, logical arguments; and I swear I'm not trying to make anyone mad or be disrespectful.
> 
> 
> 
> ~K


I can only speak for myself, but I'm not the least bit mad or angry. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if they aren't popular. I think discussion and understanding are key to not only marriages, but in life in general.

I am a very blessed man BorrowedHalo in that I have a marriage that is pretty darn great. We have our ups and downs, but 90% has been just totally awesome. There are a lot of people on here Halo who have not been that blessed. There is a lot of pain, suffering and anger from people (very, very understandable). For many, intimacy is a sore and touchy subject because it's been a very strong reason for divorce in most of those cases. For others who are not divorced, lack of intimacy is a cause of many sleepless nights. Just understand that you will see a lot of varied responses on here, some supportive; but honestly most will not agree or even understand your stance.

That's why I'm responding as I'm interesting in trying to understand your point of view, even though I don't share it.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> you are working hard to justify having zero sexual desire. IMHO you feel bad enough about it to come on here and talk about it, you are getting alot of advice but very little sympathy. have you seen a doctor? do you have the courage to tell your husband that you will never want sex again and if he does he needs to move on, why do you hold him hostage?


LMAO. Ok, you're right I am justifying having no desire. I am saying that I'M NOT ABNORMAL!!! I'm just different than my husband (and apparently you) want me to be. I don't want sympathy, I just want to shed some light on the woman's point of view. I have said, that YES, I HAVE SEEN A DOCTOR. SHE SAID I'M NORMAL. And, I HAVE told my husband, through tears on one of those nights when he is exasperated because I've said "no" again...I have said, "I don't EVER want it." 

But, if you knew my husband you would know that he would NEVER leave. If he left, a court would tell him how much money he would have to give me. As long as he stays, HE gets to control (everything) how much money he gives (or doesn't) me. Hostage? He isn't being forced to stay.

~K


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Halo,
Been with my W for 21 years. Until about a year ago I always had a higher, often MUCH higher drive. And yet she was always willing to let me "get her in the mood". Most nights she starts out in "neutral", as long as I warm her up the right way she definitely can get turned on and have fun. 

And starting about one year ago - when I turned 46 the same thing happened to me. I stopped feeling turned on just by her presence. However if she wants to connect, I just relax and let her get me aroused. Works like a charm. Hell she did it for me for 20 years, it would be selfish not to reciprocate.

I DO think it is normal for a low drive (often but not always the woman) spouse to rarely feel desire automagically. The real question is: "Can your husband slowly warm you up with the right kind of pre-foreplay/foreplay?" Because there is a GIANT difference between starting out in neutral (which is common) and being un-arousable. 

Do you have a healthy lifestyle? Do you exercise, eat right and get enough sleep? Do you manage your finances so that you are not chronically stressed about money? Do you generally have a positive attitude or do you allow "life" to cause you to feel stressed and tense on a regular basis? Are you at a weight YOU feel good about? 

Has your H stayed in shape?

As for a doctor telling you that you are "normal" not to ever want sex, that surprises me. 

And regarding your question about the importance of sex in a marriage I will answer for ME. I have never cheated on my W and frankly have walked away from situations where other women were expressing interest. We have always had a high frequency sex life (4-5 times a week or more during the first decade and gradually slowing two twice a week the second decade). This last year has been 1-2 a week due to MY declining desire. 

Three summers ago she had pelvic inflammation for a couple months. I was totally supportive. Last summer it happened again and again I was completely supportive. She frequently offered to please me "other ways" during both these time periods and mostly I declined as it seemed selfish to have one way sex. Still - she got huge points for offering and on occasion she insisted as that is part of HER definition of being a great wife. 

If however, she had just decided that for a couple months she didn't feel like it and I should "suck it up" we would have had a problem. Not a divorce - but a conversation about why MY needs weren't important enough for her to make the effort. Medical problem is one thing, lack of libido/effort is something else. 

And there were a few times during our marriage where I flat out told her that her schedule was over loaded and she was reaching the end of the day too tired for "our time" and that I felt I was important enough for her to cut other stuff out of the schedule so she wouldn't be too tired to connect. And she did, just as I made changes for her whenever she felt my priorities needed adjustment. 

With all that said - my W is a terrific life partner. If she couldn't have "intercourse" anymore we would come up with an alternative way of connecting we were BOTH satisfied with and frankly at this point she has earned so much good will in and out of bed I would simply make the effort to make things work even if I was disappointed.

The irony is that now I worry about MY declining desire levels. But ultimately I am more than willing to give HER one way sex if we get to that point because she is the most important person in my life. 

The most worrisome aspect of your post is what you write about your friends. If I had to guess you are ALL reinforcing each others idea that: A total absence of desire, and the desire to NEVER have sex are normal. And that your husbands just don't understand you and/or are selfish about their needs. That reinforcement is destructive. If your H is doing stuff that kills your desire you need to make a list and sit him down. 

I doubt you would like your husband hanging around with a bunch of guys who all cheat on their wives and encourage each other in that activity because hell "everyone does it". 

If you are on birth control - THAT can kill desire for a woman. Maybe he should get a vasectomy. We used a diaphragm for BC until our last child at which point I did get a vasectomy. 




BorrowedHalo said:


> LMAO. Ok, you're right I am justifying having no desire. I am saying that I'M NOT ABNORMAL!!! I'm just different than my husband (and apparently you) want me to be. I don't want sympathy, I just want to shed some light on the woman's point of view. I have said, that YES, I HAVE SEEN A DOCTOR. SHE SAID I'M NORMAL. And, I HAVE told my husband, through tears on one of those nights when he is exasperated because I've said "no" again...I have said, "I don't EVER want it."
> 
> But, if you knew my husband you would know that he would NEVER leave. If he left, a court would tell him how much money he would have to give me. As long as he stays, HE gets to control (everything) how much money he gives (or doesn't) me. Hostage? He isn't being forced to stay.
> 
> ~K


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Halo,
This is not a reasonable means of debate. None of us is suggesting friendship is unimportant. If you want to argue that the male position that sex is critically important in a marriage implies that we DON'T value friendship than I would like you to answer a question. What if you could ONLY choose to have a good provider who was NOT a good friend to you, and was not especially kind/supportive as a person OR you could choose a mate who was a first class friend but a very poor provider?

If you pick the good provider over the good "friend" how would you like it if we implied you only cared about money? 

I understand that you feel bad about your situation, but it seems as if you are trying to demonize posters who feel sex is a high priority. 



BorrowedHalo said:


> So, as long as you have sex, you don't really need to like each other? Sex is more important than friendship? You would never marry someone because you LIKED them? Only because you would want to have sex with them, and IF you liked them, that'd be great too?
> 
> There are babies being born without sex (IVF) pretty regularly these days.
> 
> ...


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Do you have a healthy lifestyle? Do you exercise, eat right and get enough sleep? Do you manage your finances so that you are not chronically stressed about money? Do you generally have a positive attitude or do you allow "life" to cause you to feel stressed and tense on a regular basis? Are you at a weight YOU feel good about?
> 
> Has your H stayed in shape?
> 
> ...


 OMG, you ask the tough questions! 

Ok, Let's start with the healthy lifestyle question. No, no, no, no and no. LOL I'm really not where I'd like to be. My kids tell me I'm average, but I feel fat. I usually feel somewhat positive, but I am having my issues right now. Finances--ooh, that's another thread. I've been a stay home mom for years and I am just getting ready to re-enter the workplace as a teacher. I expect this next year to be a lot of fun as I make new friends and we begin to more than break even on our finances. 

Has my H stayed in shape? Well, ROUND is a shape, so I guess that's a yes! :rofl: Seriously, he was in the Army and after a tour in the desert (which has given us OTHER issues--yet another thread) he got out of the Army and a few years ago he had hernia surgery and he has gotten HUGE! 

Girlfriends reinforcing each other...well, no it's not really like that. We all agree that our husbands aren't doing anything wrong, but we can't figure out what's "wrong" with us. I think I have to conclude that it's just what's normal for "us". Maybe it is that we are friends b/c we are so much alike. 

Last, the vasectomy thing...Well, two issues here. One is that I have blood pressure issues...mine is very low and it gets lower when I'm sick or when I have a regular monthly cycle. So, I have to be on something to curb it. The second issue is that (and I totally know and admit that this is ALL my problem and I have shared it with my hubby and I'm working on it, but I'm not there yet.) My husband pretty much decided on his own that we would not have any more children. My last pregnancy was a miscarriage and I have not let go of having another child, even though I know that it is unlikely and even unrealistic. 

So, there's the rest of my drama, LOL Ok, so not the REST of it...but more of it anyway. 

~K


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

76Trombones said:


> I'm in a similar boat to you Halo but I have never had a sex drive. I find the term "ruined women" a bit wrong though - there is nothing wrong with us, we just don't have the urge as much as others. We are not abnormal, just different. I think labelling yourself as "ruined" is a self-defeating thing and would not do much for your self esteem. Its hard not to, what with the media, friends, family, etc all saying we are flawed but the bottom line is, they are only acting this way because we are a sexualized society - it is ingrained in us since birth every time we turn on the tv, listen to the radio etc. And it doesnt help that we are in the minority.
> 
> But either way, our partners DO have what we do not have, and there is no denying it. They have needs - took me a while to realise that it is not a want for them, it is a need. Just like for me, emotional intimacy is a need. Same thing just different outlets.
> 
> I feel you on everything you said in your post - I have had issues with pretty much each one of those things and yeah it sucks. As painful as it was, I was brutally honest about my feelings to my husband about it. In the end we compromised. He told me how many days he would like it a week(7), and I told him how many days I would like it (0 lol) and we decided on something in the middle which he finds satisfactory, yet I can tolerate. I added an extra day to that because I realise what his needs are. But during the act, even though I feel no desire whatsoever, don't orgasm or become aroused, etc, I make it a fun thing to do. The "fun" thing worked wonders - I don't dread it anymore and according to him, I look a lot more enthusiastic. I try to be open to trying new things and I try not to put any "rules" in to limit it. If I am uncomfortable with something I decline and we can do something else. But for me it is a fun time between partners and so I look forward to it a bit. And he seems to really enjoy it. We don't have any arguments about it anymore either, which is good. I don't know if the "fun" and "lighthearted" thing we do would work for other couples but it seems to work well for us.


yet you admit to buying a sex toy for yourself on another thread. doesnt sound like someone with no sex drive to me. :scratchhead:


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, I asked my wife to go to marriage counseling this morning. She said, "let's talk about it tonight". I feel somewhat relieved just getting the question out in the open. But, I'm waiting to see how the talks go tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

She also read the first chapter of the Sex Starved Marriage book and said she was sorry for making me feel bad. She said she loves me. A step in the right direction, I think. We will talk more tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

She thinks we can talk through it. I indicated my desire to go ahead with counseling. First session is next week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Okiedokey, haha that is quite observant. True! I have often said the same thing to myself! I had discussed that sort of thing with a therapist but it basically comes down to (for me anyway) I have a sex drive when I'm by myself (once every 3 months or so) but when others come into it nope. So we deduced for me it is an "intimacy problem" rather than a "sex problem". So there you go  We just talked about that yeterday actually. That is spooky


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

That's the good thing about counselling/therapy/etc, you aren't judged by anyone - it's in a supportive, positive environment so you can be a lot more honest with your feelings. But at the same time, you have other people (the therapist, and your partner I would assume in marriage counselling) to help you out positively with the issues that come up. That, and you have multiple viewpoints on everything that comes up so you can't just get stuck in your own point of view like you would do, when you just think stuff to yourself. Does that even make any sense? Hopefully you get the general idea 

Good luck txhunter - I think counselling is the way to go! Hopefully it is very productive and helps out you and your wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go to the store and get His Needs Her Needs. It will tell you why your marriage is loveless.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

BorrowedHalo, your low drive is probably at least partially due to hormonal birth control, and if you need to be on it for health reasons, there’s not much you can do about that. Other than getting your lifestyle on the healthy track (which is a great thing to do!), you will need to stay on it, and your husband will understand this, as he cares about you and your health. 

However, have you thought about doing other things (not just sex) to please your husband? If you’re having pain or spotting, it’s totally understandable if you’re not interested in sex, but that doesn’t mean either of you have to miss out on everything sexual. You say that you’re not a sexual person, but could you view sexual acts as positive in a different way? Like how Trombones described, it can be just fun, it doesn’t have to be some huge serious ordeal. You don’t even have to be in the mood yourself to surprise your husband with some things! I’m sure he will appreciate it because it shows that you care about his needs, even if you don’t view sex as necessary or even fun. The analogy here that I can think of is surprising your spouse with a romantic dinner--you have to put in the energy and effort to cook, set everything up, etc. which might not be that fun initially, but in the end you’ve done something loving and nice for your spouse, and you get to enjoy their happiness and appreciation! Sex is not that different--surprising him with oral sex, for example, takes wayyy less time than cooking dinner, and he will be MUCH happier, and the act itself does not require you to be aroused on a physiological level. Do you enjoy pleasing your husband? Do you do other thoughtful things for him, like making dinner, or buying him small things you think he’d like just because? Does he do the same for you?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Depends on the guy. For me - a nice long back massage or back scratch feels great and shows commitment effort. A high drive spouse may need to self pleasure/achieve release just before hand so it is not "frustrating". 

I actually see this as a litmus test. If your partner isn't willing to spend a half hour or an hour giving you a massage/back scratch the real issues likely have nothing to do with lust/sex. 





lime said:


> BorrowedHalo, your low drive is probably at least partially due to hormonal birth control, and if you need to be on it for health reasons, there’s not much you can do about that. Other than getting your lifestyle on the healthy track (which is a great thing to do!), you will need to stay on it, and your husband will understand this, as he cares about you and your health.
> 
> However, have you thought about doing other things (not just sex) to please your husband? If you’re having pain or spotting, it’s totally understandable if you’re not interested in sex, but that doesn’t mean either of you have to miss out on everything sexual. You say that you’re not a sexual person, but could you view sexual acts as positive in a different way? Like how Trombones described, it can be just fun, it doesn’t have to be some huge serious ordeal. You don’t even have to be in the mood yourself to surprise your husband with some things! I’m sure he will appreciate it because it shows that you care about his needs, even if you don’t view sex as necessary or even fun. The analogy here that I can think of is surprising your spouse with a romantic dinner--you have to put in the energy and effort to cook, set everything up, etc. which might not be that fun initially, but in the end you’ve done something loving and nice for your spouse, and you get to enjoy their happiness and appreciation! Sex is not that different--surprising him with oral sex, for example, takes wayyy less time than cooking dinner, and he will be MUCH happier, and the act itself does not require you to be aroused on a physiological level. Do you enjoy pleasing your husband? Do you do other thoughtful things for him, like making dinner, or buying him small things you think he’d like just because? Does he do the same for you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Depends on the guy. For me - a nice long back massage or back scratch feels great and shows commitment effort. A high drive spouse may need to self pleasure/achieve release just before hand so it is not "frustrating".
> 
> I actually see this as a litmus test. If your partner isn't willing to spend a half hour or an hour giving you a massage/back scratch the real issues likely have nothing to do with lust/sex.


 VERY good advice.


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## aw5756 (Jul 9, 2010)

Sex is very important in a marriage, coming from a woman. It's one of our basic and most primitive needs, not just for breeding purposes. It'swhat keeps the marriage alive, keeps that emotional bonding and if you aren't having sex with your spouse, naturally you become detached because it is not registering in the limbic system in your brain(this part controls emotions and associates smell with memories). Now, usually it's not the women to pick up on this detachment and almost always the guy who is the first to notice(sorry, boys!). It's nothing for us to go without sex for months at a time but it is a necessity for men. Now just because we aren't in the mood doesn't mean we shouldn't help them out. Even on my roughest days it's worth giving him a bj if I'm not in the mood because he's so happy and appreciative, something he seldom ever is. A little catering can go a long way. just don't do it too much or he'll get too used to it to where it doesn't affect him like it used to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

But many many women do NOT believe this, or were never told this.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

aw5756 said:


> It's nothing for us to go without sex for months at a time but it is a *necessity* for men. Now just because we aren't in the mood doesn't mean we shouldn't help them out. A little catering can go a long way. just don't do it too much *or he'll get too used to it *to where it doesn't affect him like it used to.


I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and rape. I mean, for years people have said that you can't blame the victim because it's wrong unless both parties are consenting. We can't say, "She asked for it by flirting or dressing in sexy clothes." But, on the other hand, how can we say that sex is a necessity for men without confirming that rapists are simply not to be blamed for their acts because they were simply fulfilling their needs?
Also, I had to laugh a little about the "Just don't get him too used to it" comment. You mean like, say, when I was first dating and married and we wanted to have sex all the time? I guess someone should have told me then not to do it too often as that would get him "used to it". LOL I will make a note to add this to the "talk" with my daughter. Jk

~K


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

turnera said:


> But many many women do NOT believe this, or were never told this.


Just playing devil's advocate on this one, but is there any possibility that men believe this simply BECAUSE they have been told this?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Halo,
I did not find your post to be constructive. So let me take you through this and you can decide for yourself if you want to continue to refer to high drive males in the same sentence as rapists. 

First and foremost like most of the men here I have never and will never hit my wife. Not only that I have never used my greater size/strength to physically intimidate her in any way. As for forcing her to have sex - since that would be FAR worse than hitting her - the idea is highly offensive. And I treat my W same as I treated my GF's any other woman I have dealt with. Physical aggression with women is simply forbidden. 

With that out of the way - I told my W early on that I have a high drive, don't function well without frequent sex and that other than that I am very low maintenance and very giving/accommodating without being a pushover. 

I also pointed out that if I chose to focus solely on my desires, I would get a job as a librarian (I love books, love libraries and were money no object would have made an excellent librarian and researcher). Had I done that - she would have had constant, relentless financial stress and I would have had a cool job and wouldn't have to do anything I didn't "want" to do. 

But my W would have been miserable and tense if I had done that. So instead I worked a series of high stress, high pay technology jobs. And by MAKING THAT MAJOR EXTRA EFFORT I completely removed financial stress from her life and enabled her to be a SAHM and have 3 kids. To her credit she didn't use money for frivolous crap. She used it for the kids and to invest in a good house and the rest got saved. And today we have no debt of any kind. 

There were MANY TIMES I wanted to quit my job/jobs. I never did. I had made a commitment, she was doing a great job raising the children and being a W and I didn't want to disrupt that. 

I can also say with absolute certainty that there were many nights that she would have rather read a book, watched TV, slept, etc. than have sex with me. But she felt like part of being a good/great W was to MAKE THE EFFORT by making me feel loved and de-stressed by giving me great quantity and quality sex. And mostly I "think" she was happy to make me happy. She felt glad she could take me to the moon and back. 

And yes - there is a dark aspect to any real life. There were DEFINITELY times I resented that she had this nice - smooth 1950's style life and didn't have to worry about closing deals - or connecting flights. And DEFINITELY times when she resented my relentless need for sex. Not often on either side - but real life isn't perfect. If overall it is good - you are lucky. We have been lucky.

So let me ask you - does this sound like the rapist/victim model or simply a case of two people who mostly made each other's needs and happiness a priority?




BorrowedHalo said:


> I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and rape. I mean, for years people have said that you can't blame the victim because it's wrong unless both parties are consenting. We can't say, "She asked for it by flirting or dressing in sexy clothes." But, on the other hand, how can we say that sex is a necessity for men without confirming that rapists are simply not to be blamed for their acts because they were simply fulfilling their needs?
> Also, I had to laugh a little about the "Just don't get him too used to it" comment. You mean like, say, when I was first dating and married and we wanted to have sex all the time? I guess someone should have told me then not to do it too often as that would get him "used to it". LOL I will make a note to add this to the "talk" with my daughter. Jk
> 
> ~K


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

Hmm, it seems like I have offended you. Let me try to put it another way. I'm going to say that it is very difficult and somewhat embarrassing to admit that this is the way I PERSONALLY feel. With my other posts, I talked about others who share some of my feelings. What I'm about to say, I don't know if they agree or not. So, here goes....

First, I don't think you can equate a job--no matter how much you like or dislike it--with sex. Saying that you wanted this but did this is all well and good, but sex is SO personal. I don't think there's really anything that can equal the amount of personal boundaries and intimacy as sex. 

Now, my husband travels. Sometimes he travels for most of the month. When he comes home, I don't even thinks he "expects" sex. But I know he wants it. So, on Monday, when he leaves, I'm relieved. I hate that. What a terrible way to feel. But at least I don't feel like I'm disappointing him. Then, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I still feel pretty good. By Thursday, though, I start feeling like, "Oh, right. Tomorrow's Friday. I'll have to have sex." And by Friday, I'm completely dreading it. Then, by the time the time comes around I'm thinking of whatever I can to get through it. "Should we paint the basement den? I forgot to ask the vet about the cat's weight. I hope those towels that were drying on the deck don't blow away. I wonder what the weather will be tomorrow?" Then he says, "That wasn't so bad, was it?" And I say, "Uh uh." And I'm thinking, "I wonder how long that'll last." 

And, I want to reiterate that I _*have *_asked the OB/GYN about it. I've actually asked different doctors in different states at different ages of my life. They have both told me that it's fairly common. I also want to reiterate that I would *LOVE *to fix the "problem". But just doing it because he has to have it doesn't ring true as a "fix".


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

BH, 

Like your H, I sometimes travel for business. When things were good, I looked forward to getting home, being with my wife and kids. But, when you get home and there isn't any excitement from my W that I'm home after being away all week, it really sucks. I'm thinking that I'm trying to provide for my family the best way I can by making the sacrifice of the business trips and then get little or no appreciation for it. So, much for absense makes the heart grow fonder. 

It's an attitude thing. Making the effort to make your H feel wanted and appreciated. Recognizing the sacrifices he is making to help the family. He wants you and wants to be with you and you throw up roadblocks. I have experienced it a lot. I'm still trying to figure out how to knock through those roadblocks or get my wife not to build them in the first place.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

halo, you are painting a picture of what alot of guys in here think their woman are. i see your point of view, i see alot of your attitude towards sex in my wife, it has opened my eyes and for that i thank you. i need to get some on the side


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

[email protected] 
I've just read this entire thread and I'm just amazed at how much of myself and my wife I see in here. Not in a good way either. We seem to have the same issues as the OP. She seems to have no drive, I can't turn her on, etc.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> Now, my husband travels. Sometimes he travels for most of the month. When he comes home, I don't even thinks he "expects" sex. But I know he wants it. So, on Monday, when he leaves, I'm relieved. I hate that. What a terrible way to feel. But at least I don't feel like I'm disappointing him. Then, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I still feel pretty good. By Thursday, though, I start feeling like, "Oh, right. Tomorrow's Friday. I'll have to have sex." And by Friday, I'm completely dreading it. Then, by the time the time comes around I'm thinking of whatever I can to get through it. "Should we paint the basement den? I forgot to ask the vet about the cat's weight. I hope those towels that were drying on the deck don't blow away. I wonder what the weather will be tomorrow?" Then he says, "That wasn't so bad, was it?" And I say, "Uh uh." And I'm thinking, "I wonder how long that'll last."
> 
> And, I want to reiterate that I _*have *_asked the OB/GYN about it. I've actually asked different doctors in different states at different ages of my life. They have both told me that it's fairly common. I also want to reiterate that I would *LOVE *to fix the "problem". But just doing it because he has to have it doesn't ring true as a "fix".


BorrowedHalo, are there any reasons why you could look forward to your husband coming home? Dreading sex seems to cloud your whole mood and attitude towards his return. Do you view sex as a totally negative thing? How about intimacy--kissing, hugging, back rubs? I bet there are some positive things that YOU enjoy that you could do for him when he gets home to show that you care about him. I think for him a large part of the intimacy "problem" in your relationship is your attitude--I'm not saying you should magically start loving sex (especially if you are on hormonal birth control! This part is NOT your fault at all), but you could maybe start showing some enthusiasm in other areas connected to intimacy. 

I don't really want to spend a lot of time addressing the rapist argument, because I think that that is an incredibly negative way to view sex and your marriage. I realize it was hypothetical of course, but it might be more constructive to think of hypothetical (or real!) POSITIVE situations. Don't think about sex right now--think about the things you love and appreciate about your husband. Think about things you can do to make him happy that YOU would like to do as well. Focus on those things for the next time he comes home and see if it makes a difference in your attitude towards him. This won't magically "fix" your sex life, but it might make you appreciate your husband more, to the point where you might enjoy pleasing him even if you don't get any physical enjoyment out of it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> Just playing devil's advocate on this one, but is there any possibility that men believe this simply BECAUSE they have been told this?


 Believe what? That men deserve to have sex in their marriage?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> halo, you are painting a picture of what alot of guys in here think their woman are. i see your point of view, i see alot of your attitude towards sex in my wife, it has opened my eyes and for that i thank you. i need to get some on the side


Well, since we're being controversial, I have often wished my H would do just that - get some on the side to take the onus off me.

I echo BH's feelings; I go through the exact same thing when my H travels - relief that I get X days 'off' and then dread that he will be coming home and expecting it. 

That said, he is amazing as far as making sure I'm taken care of always, and always first. So it's not that there's anything wrong. It's great.

It's me. It's my childhood and my issues. I wish it would be different. There's really nothing wrong with having sex more, I do understand that; but something always holds me back and makes me feel that way.

I will say that, for a while, while I was actively working on my marriage, and liking my H more, I was more 'into' it and looking forward to it, and using our 52 Invitations to Grrrreat Sex book, because HE was being more of the husband I wanted, not LBing me and meeting my ENs more. So maybe if you want more, spend more time getting to know what her LBs and ENs are so she becomes more receptive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AmorousWarrior said:


> [email protected]
> I've just read this entire thread and I'm just amazed at how much of myself and my wife I see in here. Not in a good way either. We seem to have the same issues as the OP. She seems to have no drive, I can't turn her on, etc.


 The best advice I can give is (1) learn her LBs and ENs and address that, and (2) think back to when you were dating or first married and she DID have a drive, and figure out what changed.


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## housefullofmen (Jul 9, 2010)

Halo,
I used to feel the exact same way, I had NO sex drive for almost 6 yrs. I would however allow my husband to "work me up" from time to time. I had no problems having sex, once I was put in the "ON" position. I too used to wonder what was wrong with me, in the beginning of mine and the hubby's relationship, my sex drive rivaled his in ferocity. After our third child and meds for depression, I had no libido, I gained weight (which did not deter the hubby) and generally felt miserable about myself. I actually looked forward to my periods just to be left alone for a week! Hubby can't stand the thought of sex during that time, although that's when I wanted it.

Having said that, I recently lost weight and am feeling more confident about myself, I have a strong sex drive now, unfortunately the hubby is going through some sort of crisis (I have posted about this), and my re-discovered sex drive is going to waste.....

TX....It's great that your wife is willing to work on a solution for the two of you, hang in there! I know men get sick of hearing this, but sex drive for us women is more than hormones, it is affected by everything we do...


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

turnera said:


> The best advice I can give is (1) learn her LBs and ENs and address that, and (2) think back to when you were dating or first married and she DID have a drive, and figure out what changed.


Forgive me but I'm still new at this. What's LB's? I'm assuming EN's are emotional needs?
The biggest change from when we were dating? lol. We got married, had a baby, bought a house, she's graduated with her BA and MBA, new jobs. lol. 

Alot of change.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AmorousWarrior said:


> Forgive me but I'm still new at this. What's LB's? I'm assuming EN's are emotional needs?
> The biggest change from when we were dating? lol. We got married, had a baby, bought a house, she's graduated with her BA and MBA, new jobs. lol.
> 
> Alot of change.


 OH, sorry, go to marriagebuilders.com for all that. It has a program you can follow to fix your marriage, which is really based on psychology - you stop Love Busting your spouse. That could be anything from leaving the toilet seat up to buyng a motorcycle without telling her. You learn your LBs (how you LB her) by having her fill out the LB questionnaire. Then you spend several months focusing on stopping all those LBs - it takes that long to break habits.

Then you ask her to fill out the Emotional Needs (EN) questionnaire so you know what her top 5 ENs are, so you can start meeting them. If you don't meet them, someone else will. For instance, if she needs conversation, and you never talk to her about stuff that's important to her, she may find herself on a chat room some day and get drawn into a conversation with some other guy who WILL talk to her about her stuff.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is really good. Super honest. This is not about a lack of desire, it is full blown sexual aversion. Huge difference between the two. Lots of times my W had a lack of desire. During those times she "could" be aroused and have fun. She never had the "I dread having sex" thing going on. That is a valid and serious issue. That is NOT about a lack of desire. Trust me - I have had recent periods where I lack desire I know how that feels. I have luckily never had the "I dread sex thing". 

Can you break it down? Can you sit down and think about WHY you have this aversion? What parts of the encounter feel bad/worse/worst? Is ANY of it pleasant? 

Is he doing things outside the bedroom that turn you off/make you feel edgy/tense? 

Maybe a MC can help, maybe you need a sex therapist. 

In the realm of desire - honesty is king - if his weight is a problem or part of the problem you should tell him. Just be careful not to over emphasize stuff and leave other stuff out. The last thing you want is him to make a big effort and fix some things - but not resolve the problem. That will make most guys feel tricked....



BorrowedHalo said:


> Hmm, it seems like I have offended you. Let me try to put it another way. I'm going to say that it is very difficult and somewhat embarrassing to admit that this is the way I PERSONALLY feel. With my other posts, I talked about others who share some of my feelings. What I'm about to say, I don't know if they agree or not. So, here goes....
> 
> First, I don't think you can equate a job--no matter how much you like or dislike it--with sex. Saying that you wanted this but did this is all well and good, but sex is SO personal. I don't think there's really anything that can equal the amount of personal boundaries and intimacy as sex.
> 
> ...


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

Let me say, right off, that I'm a straight shooter and I will probably offend half the people on here, but the plain and simple truth must be told.

I have seen a lot of "I" statements. People focus on their lack of desire, their this, their that, but don't focus enough on the other person and his or her needs. Real love and maturity depend not just on your own feelings but on making a decision to act in a loving manner to another person, even when you really don't feel like it.

Sex is best when both people are into it, but it is loving to try even when your feelings aren't all the way into it (or even at all). Besides, ladies, how do you know that once you allow yourself to participate in the lovemaking that you won't melt into it and have some feelings arise? 

As a man, I am absolutely convinced that many (not all) ladies just don't have an understanding of how important physical touch (not just intercourse) is to a man. Men are taught to be tough, to have a stiff upper lip, don't cry, don't let your emotions show, men can't be touchy, etc. But, and this is both the beautiful and tragic part - sex is the one place where a man can enjoy giving and receiving physical touch in love, and not feel his manhood or toughness called into question. To deprive your man of this, and say you love him, rings hollow, I can tell you.

Also, we all talk about what are, essentially, our love languages. Meaning, some ladies feel the most loved by acts of service by their husbands, such as doing household things without having to be nagged, surprising you with a day at the spa, etc. We all need several things to feel loved, including listening, and words of affirmation ("I love you"; "you are sexy"; "I want you"). With men, I believe that sexual intimacy is at the top or in our top three of "love languages." I truly don't think many women (if not most) get that. You probably have no idea how big a need sexual touch and release is to a man. All stereotype jokes aside (ie, "men are animals," "all they think about is sex"), a man's body is designed for sexual release and when he doesn't get it, he may become irritable, agitated, or frustrated. He may, in a mature attempt to not be a jerk, try to mask it and bit the bullet, as they say, but it is an underlying tension (and eventually resentment) that you can, with time, start to feel. Not to oversimplify things, but some of relationship problems (I said some) could be made a lot better by just having a couple of fun rolls in the sack per week.

If a man doesn't get sex from his wife, her otherwise kind words and deeds start ringing hollow. He may even feel like less of a man. After all, why doesn't his wife, the woman he pledged himself to, promising to forsake all others, find him lovable or desirable enough to touch him sexually? I happen to believe not opening yourself to a person sexually is a symptom of not being completely open to them in other ways (your heart?). 

I haven't even mentioned yet, until now, the tremendous temptations some men face. Wife, if you are denying your husband because of selfish reasons (and simply not feeling a desire yourself is not a good enough reason to deny him your sexual love), then be aware that the flirty secretary with sexy legs and perfume might be more than willing to take your place in that department. Some ladies joke (or complain - sometimes there's no difference), that all men think of is sex. Well, if you were starving, wouldn't all you think about be food? There is one way you can help - just by making love to the man, for goodness' sake, more often. I think most guys are reasonable and won't expect you ladies to swing from the chandeliers ever other night, but for Pete's sake is more than once or twice a month really too much to ask? There is a lady somewhere, that doesn't share your ambivalence (or repulsion?) for sex, and given the right (or wrong) circumstances and opportunity, may provide your man what you won't. And spare me the psychobabble about men just wanting sex like animals -- sexual touch makes a man feel desired, feel wanted, feel aive, feel, well, like a MAN! If you never heard from your man how you look nice, or get any compliments from him, you would probably be aching for that and the first person who comes along that compliments you or flirts with you would fulfill that part of your deepest needs that you are so deprived of.

Men and women get on here, talking about their lack of sexual desire because he gained weight, she gained weight, the accident, childbirth, family problems, jobs, etc. Are you mature enough and do you love your spouse enough to DO something about it? See a doctor, get medication, take hormone therapy, lose weight, plan a weekend getaway, DO something! I can almost guarantee you that your husband in your sexless marriage is not happy with that arrangement, I don't care how much he outwardly smiles to you or says things are okay or he understands. He doesn't understand, unless you are really physically unable to (like truly paralyzed). And even then, if that were the case with me, I still wouldn't deprive my wife -- I'd have the busiest fingers and ton.... well you get the point -- in the world.

Which brings me to the point -- to the poster who said there is no difference between a wife not wanting to and not being able to because of paralysis -- yes, there is. If you are hungry and I have money but don't give you any because I don't have a desire to, that is a world of difference from if I really don't have it to give. In one case is a woman with a capable (physical) body but won't; in another, is a woman (from the example) who truly can't. Give us guys more credit for common sense and brains, for crying out loud -- we know the difference. We're not all jackasses and selfish jerks.

So, just be forewarned that withholding sex is a dangerous thing. Even the most devoted man cannot help feel the temptation to stray when he's getting nothing but frigidity and rejection from the one whom he trusted to be there for him and love him. Hell, he could have stayed single and gotten no sex and lots of rejection, he didn't have to get married to get that. Some of you ladies who deny their men sex may end up wondering in shock how he could have ran off with your best friend or the woman at work. I'm not saying that's right, and wrong is wrong, but a starving person who otherwise would never think of breaking the law eventually gets to the point of stealing to get food. Men and women, love each other - don't push each other to the breaking point. Whether it's withholding sex, your affection, helping and serving each other, respect, listening, or other expressions of love. If you don't give it, someone else just may offer to. Then you will have your self to blame, as well as the spouse who strayed. After all, two wrongs still don't make a right.

I wish everyone the best. I am not a bitter, frustrated man. You might be surprised to know that I am in a very good marriage and am not sexually frustrated. I am thankful for that and don't flaunt it. I mention it merely so that my post won't be dismissed by some as the rantings of a malcontent.


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

Such a great post with valid points. Thank you so much for putting many of my thoughts into words.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

dbj1971 said:


> Let me say, right off, that I'm a straight shooter and I will probably offend half the people on here, but the plain and simple truth must be told.
> 
> I have seen a lot of "I" statements. People focus on their lack of desire, their this, their that, but don't focus enough on the other person and his or her needs. Real love and maturity depend not just on your own feelings but on making a decision to act in a loving manner to another person, even when you really don't feel like it.
> 
> ...


Awesome post. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

dbj1971 said:


> Let me say, right off, that I'm a straight shooter and I will probably offend half the people on here, but the plain and simple truth must be told.
> 
> I have seen a lot of "I" statements. People focus on their lack of desire, their this, their that, but don't focus enough on the other person and his or her needs. Real love and maturity depend not just on your own feelings but on making a decision to act in a loving manner to another person, even when you really don't feel like it.
> 
> ...


Since most of the responses have been from men… As a woman, I agree 100% with this post! 

I also have another way of looking at the situation that I’d like to contribute:

Even you don’t physically enjoy sex that much, or it feels like a chore, or you’re resentful because s/he didn’t take out the trash, or blah blah blah, why would you NOT want to do something loving and nice for your spouse?! If it makes them happy and doesn’t cause you lasting harm, why would you not want to be kind to the person you’re with for the rest of your life? Because they forgot to empty the dishwasher?! I just don’t get it… No, you shouldn’t “have to” do anything that you don’t want to do, but why would you CHOOSE to be so cruel when you could just as easily choose to be loving and affectionate? All of the hours of arguing, crying, bickering, and emotional exhaustion over the lack of sex could have been replaced with less than half of that time in surprise blowjobs, which are way more fun. Seriously. I would encourage everyone to focus on how emotionally rewarding it can be to please your partner, even if you’re not in the mood. It's NEVER too late to start--go home and do something spontaneous and fun today!


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

Definately. You'd be surprised at how much more willing your man is to do your bidding after a good BJ! lol.


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## aw5756 (Jul 9, 2010)

BorrowedHalo said:


> I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between this and rape. I mean, for years people have said that you can't blame the victim because it's wrong unless both parties are consenting. We can't say, "She asked for it by flirting or dressing in sexy clothes." But, on the other hand, how can we say that sex is a necessity for men without confirming that rapists are simply not to be blamed for their acts because they were simply fulfilling their needs?
> Also, I had to laugh a little about the "Just don't get him too used to it" comment. You mean like, say, when I was first dating and married and we wanted to have sex all the time? I guess someone should have told me then not to do it too often as that would get him "used to it". LOL I will make a note to add this to the "talk" with my daughter. Jk
> 
> ~K


It is wrong unless both parties are consenting. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying it is a necessity, to sow your oats. Much like eating food is necessary for survival, but that doesn't mean it's right to just take it. And I say "used to it" because after a while, it can become expected.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

turnera said:


> Well, since we're being controversial, I have often wished my H would do just that - get some on the side to take the onus off me.
> 
> .


did you ever tell him that, i wish mine would because that would take the onus of cheating off of me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> did you ever tell him that, i wish mine would because that would take the onus of cheating off of me.


 :scratchhead:


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## rsalsa (Apr 19, 2010)

I am also a woman, and agree 100% with what dbj1971 stated. I don't understand how some women can deprive their husbands of sex and then be surprised with they cheat....


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> did you ever tell him that, i wish mine would because that would take the onus of cheating off of me.


I'm confused on this one too? He has a higher sex drive than you do so you want him to cheat so you're not tempted to?


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

rsalsa said:


> I am also a woman, and agree 100% with what dbj1971 stated. I don't understand how some women can deprive their husbands of sex and then be surprised with they cheat....


I agree. I've always said that if you don't take care of your man then someone else will. That's the fact of the matter. There is always some woman willing to make him feel like a king and do whatever he wants. It's understandable that the wife isn't going to be Martha Stewart, Carol Brady, and Katie Morgan all rolled into one. But you've go to establish some kind of balance between the 3. Although a little more Katie is ok.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

great pts one n all dbj.:smthumbup:

the only exclusion i can think of is if indeed the W is going thru some *real/legitimate/no excuse,*OB/gyn issues that she hasnt shared info w/ H, as someone early on in this thread indicated. this would put a damper on things surely, but u r right in saying love/maturity would come up w/ alternatives to get u both thru sex time.

its good u pt'd out that u r no malcontent. this makes a diff.

Turnera....why'd u put_:scratchhead:_ on okies question to u? looks like he quoted u from yesterday, which surprised me as u r constantly on this board Pro-Marriage, no cheating/affairs n such, and then u posted that?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I said was that I wished my husband had another outlet, because of my sexual aversion, so that the onus of providing sex wouldn't fall on me so much. I wish I had the nerve to tell him that. That's how much I don't want sex - even though there's nothing at all wrong with our sex. It's my personal inner issue, from childhood, that makes me this way and it's not his fault. So I have sex with him 2 to 3 times a week, even after 30 years of marriage.

Oh, my question was because I wasn't sure what okey was saying - that he cheats, or she cheats, or what?


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## AmorousWarrior (Jul 6, 2010)

My wife asked me once if I wanted to have a GF on the side. She said that she'd allow it. At first I was like, "Wow, that'd be cool." 

But honestly, she's my wife. I said certain vows when I married her and I'm going to stick to those. I've thought about how nice it'd be to have a NSA relationship with a nympho like myself, but I'd much rather have lovemaking on a regular basis with my wife than constantly with someone else. 
She'd be worried about STD's, if I fell in love with the other woman, etc. Then she'd never have sex with me and we'd end up divorced. 

Allowing you man to have a woman on the side may physically be fun for him and a bit of a relief to you, but when we took those vows to be husbands and wives, we should have understood that we have a job to do. Sometimes you're not going to enjoy it and that's ok. It's natural. But allowing him to be with someone else is taking the easy way out. I'm not going to allow my wife to do that. I married her because she is an incredible person and I need and expect her to physically connect with me. As does she even though her drive is lower than mine.

Right now we aren't on the same page, but I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to do my job right.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

turnera said:


> Oh, my question was because I wasn't sure what okey was saying - that he cheats, or she cheats, or what?



you stated that you wished your husband got "it" somewhere else to take the onus off of you.
i asked if you had ever told him that, that it was OK for him to get it somewhere else ans further stated i wish my wife would tell me that so i could get it somewhere else and not feel like i was cheating. i have not ever cheated


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## Carron36 (Jun 2, 2010)

first I'd like to give kudos to dbj1971...I'm a woman and completely agree with everything he said, what an excellent post. 

I have never withheld sex from a partner for any reason, never believed in that kind of b.s. and have had many arguments with girlfriends who do exactly that to their boyfriends/husbands. So, when their partner cheats...my girlfriends know they won't get sympathy from me. You're courting disaster if you withhold sex to manipulate your partner for any reason.

Txhunter54, I'm in your situation currently. I've been with my husband for 12 years, married for 10 of them. I want it, he doesn't. He's 51, I'm 45. If I can offer another woman's perspective, when my desire for sex has decreased at different times in my life, I can honestly say it's when my partner wasn't particularly good at satisfying me. Roll on, roll off isn't satisfying. 

Do you think your wife is too "shy" to tell you what you have to do to make her get off? If so, then that may be a place to start. If you can help her to feel she can direct you (for lack of a better way to say it) to touch here, lick there, etc, you could try to reinvent your sex life with her in that way. Start with a full body massage and when she's relaxed asked how you can touch her and where you can touch her or ask her to put your hand where it will make her feel good. 

don't think that many years together would prevent a woman from developing a weird shyness about sex with her husband. It happens, I've been there (but thank God that passed !!!). 

Self confidence plays a huge role in a woman's sexuality too. The most obvious example is if she's self-conscious about her looks...that can deflate her sex drive like a woman laughing at your erection would deflate yours. I can tell by your posts that you're kind and gentle with your wife and you can probably get a sense for how she sees herself by what she wears, how she carries herself in public, etc. Take a look at that, does she wear big, loose clothing? no makeup anymore? tries to avoid bringing attention upon herself? Maybe a make over or a class that bolsters her confidence is another option. If she starts feeling confident, she'll start feeling empowered and sexy again.


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side. 

Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.

From my end of it, I would like to be able to cuddle, hug and show affection towards my husband without being expected to have sex. I would like to not always be put in the position of rejecting him. It is SO hard when I know it hurts his feelings. I am willing to have sex, BTW. I have told him we can have sex whenever he wants. But I have also told him that it is unrealistic to expect me, at 46 and after two kids and in the middle of the most stressful financial situation we have ever been in, to want to have exotic, wild sex every single night. I would rather play Scrabble. Or even Yahtzee. I feel like such a cow whenever I say no, or turn my head or slide away from him. But what else can I do? And we TALK. I HAVE talked about this. It does no good. Not twenty minutes ago he suggested we have sex because I woke him up because I am having insomnia. He is now back asleep, feelings hurt because I just smiled and drifted away. HELLO??? What part of "I can't sleep because I have been up trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage this month" doesn't he get? Seriously. Does that sound like some kind of code for "Let's have hot steamy sex"??

Yes, I KNOW he associates sex with love and comfort. I get it. I don't confuse sex with comfort. I oftentimes associate sex with another thing that somebody wants from me. 

This is going to end our relationship if we can't figure it out. This man is the love of my life, the only person I have ever had sex with, the father of my children, my best friend and a good looking, athletic, SWEET guy. I do not want to lose him. I just don't want to have sex every day. EVERY SINGLE DAY. I want to have good sex once a week. Maybe. 

Oh, and that whole "I would never withhold sex from my husband for any reason because I don't play those kind of games." is BS. You are telling me that EVERY SINGLE TIME your husband has approached you for sex, you have said yes? Right. And because you are willing to do this, you assume there is something wrong with someone who isn't?? Right again. Personally, I didn't sign up to be a sex slave. I signed up to be a life partner and my emotional needs are just as important as his physical ones. If you are willing to fall on your back every time your husband raises an eyebrow, good for you. Don't assume that because someone else does not do the same that THEY are the screwed up one. 

On the other hand, BorrowedHalo, you (and I) are going to have to find some kind of middle ground on the sex thing. And 'never' is not middle ground. I do know that I have read that with women, sex is a 'use it or lose it' kind of thing. The longer you go, the longer you can go. You might try sitting him down and telling him how you feel and making a bargain with him. Figure out a couple of nights a week that you both agree would be good nights for sex. Then make him a deal. Explain that it is hard for you to feel sexy right now. Try to figure out something that would help. If it means that on those nights he puts the kids to bed and straightens up the kitchen while you take a long hot bath, try that. Drink a glass of wine. Hell, drink a BOTTLE of wine...whatever it takes to loosen you up enough to just get started. Play music, fantasize about whatever works for you, masturbate, whatever will put you in the mood and just DO IT. Recognize that this is part of how he knows you love him. Guys are so physical. Telling him really is NOT enough. 

Or maybe try telling him that you promise to have sex X number of times a week, but you want to initiate it. (Only you do have to initiate it X times a week, no cheating.) This is less about what is fair blah blah blah, and more about not hurting someone you love and saving your marriage. It may feel like changing diapers at first (a necessary chore performed for someone you love because they need it done, but not your favorite thing), but give it a chance. You might find your libido waking back up. And good sex really is nice, isn't it? I know I am going to get flack for this, but you could also try faking it til you make it. That sounds ugly, but whatever works. 

To the OP, get your wife talking or get counseling. Try writing her a letter. Tell her that you think she is the most beautiful woman in the world and she is all you want and you need to be close to her physically. Tell her that you are willing to go as slow as she needs to get things back on track. Work out a deal and then stick to it. If the arrangement starts with one day a week and she seems to enjoy that, don't assume that she will then want it the next day. She will probably just feel pressured and resentful. 

I think I could honestly never have sex again and I would be OK. I also know that my husband gets itchy if he hasn't had sex in the last 24 hours. I love my husband. He is a good man and we suit in all other ways. So, I am going to get off the internet and see what kind of compromise we can come up with. Maybe at first neither one of us will be completely satisfied. But we will still be married and we will be trying.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Usually issues like this are not isolated. Sometimes things can get to the point that every advance you make feels to her like a request for sex. So each and every time you try to hug and kiss her, it can feel like Oh No, here we go AGAIN. 

If there is some underlying issue or resentment that is simmering over time on the back burner, then she won't feel loved and loving. Men can have sex despite not feeling loved it seems. Many women cannot. 

I would recommend the book Passionate Marriage.

Passionate Marriage | PassionateMarriage


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## Carron36 (Jun 2, 2010)

need2know...I should have been more specific. When I wrote about withholding sex, I meant the people who USE sex as a tool to get what they want from their partner, or as a punishment. Of course, there have been times when I'm not in the mood and my partner was....I just don't agree with people (usually women) who use sex or withholding sex as a manipulation of their partner....


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Our first counseling session is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Need2know, "fake it till you make it" does not work. All it does is make the "faking person" resent their partner. It definitely does not make you want to have sex more, thats for sure! Quite the opposite.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

N2K,
Very good post. 




need2know said:


> Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side.
> 
> Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

N2K,
Very good post. I hope you find a compromise that you both feel good about. 




need2know said:


> Hi, I am new here. I came to this site because I am experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. Only from BorrowedHalo's side.
> 
> Why does anything have to be wrong with anybody? There is nothing 'wrong' with a man wanting sex every day. Equally, there is nothing 'wrong' with a woman never wanting sex. It just has to be figured out.
> 
> ...


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

There have been so many good points made by the men and women on this thread. In fact, as a man, it is remarkable how insightful and intuitive the comments from women have been about men, and I hope the ladies feel the same way by what the men have said. For all the jokes in society about the sexes not understanding each other, when we just sit down and think, it turns out we understand each other fairly well a lot of times. Wonder of wonders, we find how much we have in common. I also understand this isn't just a "man wants sex, woman doesn't" thing; there have been other threads where it is reversed - the woman is frustrated because she wants sex and the man doesn't.

Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.). That comparison sounds like the same, tired "all men are animals," "all they do is think about sex," drone. If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, and that is not my intention at all, I have decided to respond to some other poster's remarks one at a time. To tunera, it is not another person's "job" to meet the intimacy needs of your husband. Did you get married to him, or did you just agree to live together and help share the bills and household duties like Jack and Janet and Chrissy on "Three's Company?" You married him. Sexual intimacy is one of the few (if not only) things you share exclusively (hopefully) with your spouse. If he or she is attractive, or is a good cook, or is talented or gifted in some way, other people get to enjoy those attributes. Not to reduce it all just to the physical, but sexual intimacy is one of the things that makes you each other's wife/husband. It's a time when you have shut out all the rest of the world and just focus on each other.

AmorousWarrior made an excellent (among many) point when he stated that a person should not take the easy way out. That's one of reasons I said maturity is so necessary; the right way is not always the easy or shortest way, but often takes a lot of effort or time. It's human nature to take the easy way out, and so someone without the maturity to rise above that, to go beyond selfishness, will not put forth the effort necessary.

Marriage is a complete package agreement. Sex is an essential component of it. It is not a mere side perk. While no one has a right to demand sex of their spouse, neither does either one have a right to always deny it (and only having sex once or twice every two months is virtually "always," so let's not get off track splitting hairs). Which brings me to my next point: Why is the focus on "he/she wants/demands and now I must give?" You both should want it. You won't always both be in the same mood or desire level at the moment, but the general desire should never be absent completely, even on nights when you really can't or aren't in the mood at all. 

I want to be respectful and delicate, but straight on this point. While there are some medically verified cases of actual clinicial frigidity in a very small percentage of women, and to those are my deepest understanding and compassion, I have to wonder about the rest of the women who say they could take or leave sex. This is a rhetorical question, but have you ever truly had an orgasm in sex? I can't believe that you could have an earth-shaking, mind-blowing, rock-my-world orgasm and then be ambivalent (could take it or leave it) about it. It's like people who compare sex to food (ie, "better-than-sex cake"). Yeah, right. It makes me wonder what type of sub-par sex those poor souls have suffered to even put a piece of food on the same level. Like I said in my first post, DO something. Some of you ladies, especially in your forties, fifties, or older (it can also happen in your thirties) have lower estrogen levens due to premenopause or the onset of it. Your whole mood and outlook on life, including sexual desire, could be improved with estrogen replacement therapy. Take a look at what Dr. James Dobson and others have to say about this. It's remarkable. Even if you don't subscribe to Dr. Dobson's religious views, he is an excellent source on strictly medical terms alone.

Also, the fact that people are even talking on here about cheating (wishing their spouse would find an outside outlet or wishing their spouse would tell them they could find one) supports my point that even a person who would not otherwise stray may eventually get to the point of "stealing to get food" so to speak. As hard as it may be for some people to understand, sexual intimacy is a basic need, not just a desire. More generally, human touch is a basic human need. I don't think there's a legitimate doctor or psychologist alive who disputes that. What deeper, more meaningful, more intimate touch can their be between husband and wife in sex? 

Carron36 - excellent points! Need2know - I appreciate your post and wanted to make the point that NEVER wanting sex is indicative of something wrong. People can debate that all day. Is the new marriage agreement of the 21st Century to get married, share the house, share duties, but get a girlfriend, bud, because our bed's only for sleeping? Ladies who think that, do you realize that sex isn't just physical to a man? Do you realize that anyone who meets the needs of a person makes deposits into what Dr. Harley calls that person's love bank? Allowing another person to meet his sexual needs means that eventually his heart may start going to that person also. It's not definite, but could happen. Do you want to take that chance? Also, to think that way is revealing -- do you consider sex to be just physical? If so, you need a more mature view of sex on all its levels (physical, emotional, mental, even spiritual).

Also, for Need2know and others, if your husband is so good-looking, sexy, talented, a great catch, etc. (and I'm not doubting you), then why in God's name don't you want the man to make love to you? Like I said, all other kind words ring hollow when action doesn't follow. My dad once said, don't pay so much attention to what people say as to what they do. If I'm a husband being told I'm good-looking, great guy, etc, but you (wife) don't ever want me sexually, I'm going to start thinking you're blowing smoke or shooting bull. Plus, if he's really that hot and you aren't giving him what he needs, he's probably got women falling all over him. Sure, he shouldn't give in to temptation no matter what, and should keep his vows, but don't miss the point -- you should not push him to the brink of having to face such an excruciating decision/temptation. Guys think about sex a lot, regardless, it's just the way we are and I don't apologize for it. Besides, if we didn't, none of you (or I) would exist. But if a man's satisfied with what he's getting at home, he's not going to be looking for outside dalliances, generally speaking. Sure, there are always exceptions - the selfish, immature jerk who cheats no matter what - but then, there are reprobates in both sexes. We're talking about the vast majority of real men and women here, so stay with me. To use a car anology (and no, I'm not in any way comparing women or people to things - it's just to make a point): If a man has a Lamborghini in his garage, he's not going to be so tempted to steal a ride in someone's nice-looking econony car.

Play with fire, and you might get burned. Deny sex to the one you supposedly love so much and pledged to, and risk him or her straying, or at the very least silently seething with frustration, self-doubt, gradually diminishing confidence, etc.

When I hear a woman say she could be content with never having sex again, I have pity. If you have been raped or abused, there are issues to work through. Chances are you aren't one of the very small percentage of women who are truly frigid. There's one sure-fire way to tell: Can you orgams through self-stimulation? If so, you're not clinically frigid. It's time to deal with what our real problems are, and not just say, "I'm okay with no sex; don't expect it; take it or leave it." He just might take you up on that offer.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Many of the guys who are in low sex/no sex marriages and are physically "attractive" seem to have lost sight of the short list of serious turn offs for a woman. And these have nothing to do with helping out around the house or with the kids (they do) or being romantic (often they are WAY too romantic). And mostly these are behaviors their wives clearly don't like but the men either can't or won't change them:
- Being overly emotional (no one wants a robot - but MOST women are sexually turned off by a man who is as emotional/more emotional than they are)

The guys say "but that is just how I feel". And the ugly reality is that if you cannot mask a lot of your fears, anxieties, inappropriate anger, bad moods etc. you are going to kill her desire for you. And "projecting" an emotion via body language and then denying it or refusing to talk about it is even worse. Now she knows you are upset and doesn't even know why. 

This overly emotional stuff also frequently manifests as being "needy" which is a specific type of passion killer. 

"Fighting" about lots of stupid stuff and ending up apologizing all the time. Letting your anger take control even when you are right - causing you to say stupid/hurtful things and end up apologizing even though she was in the wrong to start. 

"Whining" - a side effect of being overly emotional. Women associate whining with children - this turns their desire switch OFF. Calmly saying "that is not acceptable - followed by some specific behaviors that convey you are serious - is not whining" It is being assertive. Women are experts at telling the difference between "you hurt my feelings - I am going to sulk" and "I am not going to tolerate that - I am going to steadily deprioritize you if you continue to act like that". And much of this is best done with clear body language and a bare minimum number of words. 

A half hour of whining is totally counterproductive. The opposite of that is the single sentence "That is not acceptable to me, and you would NOT like it if I did that to you" followed by however long a silence it takes for her to come to her senses. 

A lack of initiative/passivity. The implied message that you are a victim. 

NOT LISTENING. And I mean REALLY LISTENING. If you send her a loving text and get no response - sending her two more similar messages is BAD. Crowding someone with more love and attention than they want is a lust killer. This isn't about you loving HER, it is about your NEED for her to express HER love for YOU. When you do something see how she reacts. With many women a big part of their reaction is either tone of voice or body language. Or the utter lack of any reaction. 



dbj1971 said:


> There have been so many good points made by the men and women on this thread. In fact, as a man, it is remarkable how insightful and intuitive the comments from women have been about men, and I hope the ladies feel the same way by what the men have said. For all the jokes in society about the sexes not understanding each other, when we just sit down and think, it turns out we understand each other fairly well a lot of times. Wonder of wonders, we find how much we have in common. I also understand this isn't just a "man wants sex, woman doesn't" thing; there have been other threads where it is reversed - the woman is frustrated because she wants sex and the man doesn't.
> 
> Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.). That comparison sounds like the same, tired "all men are animals," "all they do is think about sex," drone. If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.
> 
> ...


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

MEM11363,

Your post is very helpful and right-on! I don't know anyone who could have said it better. Men, take note. There is some excellent, I mean EXCELLENT, advice here by MEM. It's stuff you probably have never heard from your sister, mother, wife, or anyone one else, even well-meaning female friends. But it is the utter and simple truth. Disregard it at your own peril. I am not going overboard here with praise. I mean, you hit a grand slam with that post!

MEM, just with that post you have my respect and admiration. I mean it. I appreciate you telling it like it is, even if it may be a hard pill for some men to swallow. We all need it. Thank God for the no-frills, cut-through-all-the bull, good advice like this!

Amen.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DB,
Thanks for the feedback. This is not "I read a relationship book and here is my summary". This is: I am in year 21 of a happy marriage with a great (funny, smart, TOUGH, strong willed - and occasionally difficult) wife and this is a big part of why things have worked well for us. 





dbj1971 said:


> MEM11363,
> 
> Your post is very helpful and right-on! I don't know anyone who could have said it better. Men, take note. There is some excellent, I mean EXCELLENT, advice here by MEM. It's stuff you probably have never heard from your sister, mother, wife, or anyone one else, even well-meaning female friends. But it is the utter and simple truth. Disregard it at your own peril. I am not going overboard here with praise. I mean, you hit a grand slam with that post!
> 
> ...


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

>>NOT LISTENING. And I mean REALLY LISTENING. If you send her a loving text and get no response - sending her two more similar messages is BAD. Crowding someone with more love and attention than they want is a lust killer. This isn't about you loving HER, it is about your NEED for her to express HER love for YOU. When you do something see how she reacts. With many women a big part of their reaction is either tone of voice or body language. Or the utter lack of any reaction.<<

Can I get a big HIGH FIVE for Brother MEM!! YES, that is exactly what I go through. I LOVE him, but I cannot stand to be smothered by him. I know that he is feeling this financial crunch most likely much more than I am. I really do understand that he is feeling a little threatened in the He-Man-Taking-Care-of-the-Family department. But I am feeling a little freaked out on the Mom-Holding-Everything-Together-and-Figuring-Out-How-To-Feed-and-Clothe-Two-Teenagers-On-A-Broken-Shoestring front. The more stress we have, the more he wants sex and the more I just want to be left alone. And I have two kids. I don't really need another one right now. 

In reply to the 'fake it or make it' comment: I have some clarification to make. For me, and I can only speak for myself, there are times when I don't really feel like sex, but I start off pretending like I am really into it. Almost always, somewhere along the line I actually DO get into it. Yes, that can get old. So it probably shouldn't be the ONLY way you have sex. But sometimes you have to be like the Nike commercial and JUST DO IT. 


Made a deal with my husband today. We are going to start doing some things differently. We used to go on dates, but since he lost his small business, I have felt too guilty to spend money just on us. After talking to him today, I realized that is a mistake. So, instead of a nice steak house and a play or full price movie, we are going to do Showmars and a matinee a couple of times a month. And we are planning to do our first just-us date in almost eight months this Thursday (the movie is only $5 on Thursdays). We are planning to really talk about some things over dinner. And he even asked me if I would like to go camping! We haven't been camping just the two of us since before the kids were born. We used to go all the time when we were broke and dating. Well, now we are broke and married and I *think* we are going to go camping for a weekend soon. I am ridiculously excited about the prospect. 

Thanks for having this forum and this open discussion. Reading other peoples comments made me realize how long I had let this go and how big a deal it had become between us. It seems so silly now how resentful I was and how hurt he was just fourteen hours ago. We are going to have to remember that the relationship comes first. Everything else (money, kids, etc) is secondary.


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

BTW, DBJ...I not only have frequent orgasms, I am capable of multiple orgasms. Women just aren't like men. Sometimes even having an orgasm seems a lot less like a release and a lot more like a responsibility. I am not sure what triggers sexual desire in men, I just know that the smallest things can both turn me on and turn me off. I think a lot of women invest a lot of emotion in sex and when you are stressed out all day, sex just seems like too much. 

And I never said I would tolerate my husband getting a girlfriend, which is why I recognize that we are going to have to figure something out about sex.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

76Trombones said:


> Need2know, "fake it till you make it" does not work. All it does is make the "faking person" resent their partner. It definitely does not make you want to have sex more, thats for sure! Quite the opposite.


That is not always the case. That is EXACTLY what I did after the birth of our first child when I was exhausted and my drive had tanked. It went on long enough I thought it was important for BOTH of us to do something about it. I discussed it with him, asked for very soft and sensual lovemaking and defer wild and crazy stuff. We had a lovely time reconnecting with each other until eventually parenting leveled off and my drive returned.


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

I kept thinking about this all through dinner and I had to jump back on and say....Isn't it funny that it was a MAN who thought that if women don't want sex, it must mean that they have never had an orgasm or that sex wasn't 'good'?? 

Funny men...Trix are for kids. I have had good sex. Lots and lots of good sex. But I can envision a life without sex and it wouldn't kill me. There was a time in my life I never thought I would say that. But I have had my children, I am moving into the end of my reproductive time and maybe sex drive naturally diminishes for women with the end of their reproductive years? I know it doesn't have to and doesn't for all women. But if you think of the imperative to have sex from an evolutionary standpoint, it wouldn't make sense for older women who are no longer fertile to be competing with younger, fertile women for mates. Just something to think about...


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

Sometimes, we women do not know what bothers us enough to tell you. You said she referred to your diagnosis as a discovery. Do you think maybe she was worried about you and you totally blew her out of the water by making your own meals and taking charge? Was this new in your relationship? Maybe she is threatened that your looking better and she is not looking as good to you through her eyes? I know right now sex is the farthest thing from my mind, and the first for my hubby. Sometimes, I get in the mood when he suggests that we take a shower and then he proceeds into a massage and things go from there. Yes, the flowers are nice, dinners and such but if you do it with the thought that your going to get sex, that could be the whistle blower. After a nice dinner, let her know you enjoyed her company. Pick her up a quilting book and write a note saying I saw this and was thinking of you. Write a few frisky notes such as Friday Night, I plan to take you to dinner and ravage you for desert and put it in her car. Lead up to it so expectations are clear. If your kids are not in the house, you should be able to be inventive. If she is feeling a little insecure, knowing you want her will help. Maybe saying things to her like, I am so glad that I found out about my health and it made me want to get in shape for you. I know you need your spouse right now, but now may be the time she needs you to work for her. You worked on your health, now work on your wife and do it with the same enthusiasm!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

N2K,
Your post below is very insightful and your H is quite lucky that you are really committed here. 

My W and I are 47. She has hit menopause hard. She used to O almost every time we had sex. Now maybe 1/3 of the time. This is not about me being selfish - I am happy to do WHATEVER she likes and consistently volunteer to go the extra mile in bed. Seems like her drive is just greatly diminished. 

I am lucky in that she seems to like the "overall experience" and she cares enough about me to get a good feeling rocking my world. 






need2know said:


> I kept thinking about this all through dinner and I had to jump back on and say....Isn't it funny that it was a MAN who thought that if women don't want sex, it must mean that they have never had an orgasm or that sex wasn't 'good'??
> 
> Funny men...Trix are for kids. I have had good sex. Lots and lots of good sex. But I can envision a life without sex and it wouldn't kill me. There was a time in my life I never thought I would say that. But I have had my children, I am moving into the end of my reproductive time and maybe sex drive naturally diminishes for women with the end of their reproductive years? I know it doesn't have to and doesn't for all women. But if you think of the imperative to have sex from an evolutionary standpoint, it wouldn't make sense for older women who are no longer fertile to be competing with younger, fertile women for mates. Just something to think about...


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

tamara24 said:


> Sometimes, we women do not know what bothers us enough to tell you. You said she referred to your diagnosis as a discovery. Do you think maybe she was worried about you and you totally blew her out of the water by making your own meals and taking charge? Was this new in your relationship? Maybe she is threatened that your looking better and she is not looking as good to you through her eyes? I know right now sex is the farthest thing from my mind, and the first for my hubby. Sometimes, I get in the mood when he suggests that we take a shower and then he proceeds into a massage and things go from there. Yes, the flowers are nice, dinners and such but if you do it with the thought that your going to get sex, that could be the whistle blower. After a nice dinner, let her know you enjoyed her company. Pick her up a quilting book and write a note saying I saw this and was thinking of you. Write a few frisky notes such as Friday Night, I plan to take you to dinner and ravage you for desert and put it in her car. Lead up to it so expectations are clear. If your kids are not in the house, you should be able to be inventive. If she is feeling a little insecure, knowing you want her will help. Maybe saying things to her like, I am so glad that I found out about my health and it made me want to get in shape for you. I know you need your spouse right now, but now may be the time she needs you to work for her. You worked on your health, now work on your wife and do it with the same enthusiasm!


Thanks for the suggestions!!


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM, It is good that you recognize that she can enjoy the experience without having an orgasm. My husband acknowledges that on an intellectual basis, but I don't think he really GETS it. I think he thinks I have to orgasm to enjoy sex. He tends to pursue things even though I try to indicate that maybe it would be better to just "Move on....there's nothing to see here." That makes me start to feel like he is not paying attention to me and that makes me feel resentful, so the chances of me getting anywhere drop to zero, so he tries harder, so I get more irritated...you see where this goes. 

I know all of this winds back to what has happened to us financially over the past two years. He used to run his own construction company with a couple of crews going on several different projects at a time. Now he spends his days scanning Craigslist and Angie's list for remodeling jobs that he can handle by himself or with a minimum of help. He goes just about every day to offer quotes that are half what he would have quoted two years ago to get shot down because the homeowner's neighbor lost his management job two months ago and is willing to do the work (poorly) for next to nothing. I KNOW this is taking a toll on him. I feel that his obsessive neediness in the bedroom is directly related to how much LESS of a man he feels like during the day. But he says NO, that's not it and I am not sure whether I a wrong or he is in denial. I *think* things are creaking around on the business front. But in the meantime, I have had to turn what was a hobby of mine into a money making venture. I do not in any way shape or form make anything like what he used to make, but we couldn't make it now without my financial input. He says that doesn't bother him, that he isn't a Neanderthal. So, I dunno. 

Anywho, it all illustrates to me how much what happens in our bedrooms depends on what happens outside our homes, at the dinner table and just writing that gave me an idea. You know, I think I am going to suggest that he try coaching a rec league soccer team or baseball or something like that. He needs an outlet that allows him to feel in charge again. That doesn't involve me having to have sex every day. 

I am so glad I found this place. Just writing about this knowing that other people are going to read it has made me clarify my thoughts and feelings on a subject that was tearing me up. Thanks, Internet!!


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

Tamara, that is pretty smart. She might be feeling left behind. It will be interesting if that comes out during counseling. 

I watched a show the other night on Netflix titled "This Emotional Life". The first episode is about relationships and one of the spots was about an older (mid-50's maybe) couple who had always been very happy, but late in the marriage sex became an issue. The wife felt like many of the women who have commented here...she had companionship, she had things to occupy her during the day and she just didn't feel the need for sex. He pretty much felt like if they didn't start having sex again, he was out the door. He loved her, but a part of that for him was sex. They figured it out. It was very touching to watch. Maybe watching something like that with your spouse could help open up a dialogue.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Is he exercising? Stress can be hard on your body - and financial stress is very difficult. 

I do not put any pressure on my W to O because she finds those conversations/acts annoying. She told me that a long time ago and I simply accept it. I DON'T like it - but I accept it  

What I have observed though is that it is true. Apparently she CAN have a good time without hitting the rapture at the end. I say that because there is no way she would "humor me" as often as she does if that wasn't true. 

As for sex, frequency and rejection. I do know one thing that works well for us is: If one of us wants to NOT connect they simply say "can we connect tomorrow night?" This is a "polite" statement. It isn't really a question. And the other person gets to say "sure no problem". And then the next night we do connect. 




need2know said:


> MEM, It is good that you recognize that she can enjoy the experience without having an orgasm. My husband acknowledges that on an intellectual basis, but I don't think he really GETS it. I think he thinks I have to orgasm to enjoy sex. He tends to pursue things even though I try to indicate that maybe it would be better to just "Move on....there's nothing to see here." That makes me start to feel like he is not paying attention to me and that makes me feel resentful, so the chances of me getting anywhere drop to zero, so he tries harder, so I get more irritated...you see where this goes.
> 
> I know all of this winds back to what has happened to us financially over the past two years. He used to run his own construction company with a couple of crews going on several different projects at a time. Now he spends his days scanning Craigslist and Angie's list for remodeling jobs that he can handle by himself or with a minimum of help. He goes just about every day to offer quotes that are half what he would have quoted two years ago to get shot down because the homeowner's neighbor lost his management job two months ago and is willing to do the work (poorly) for next to nothing. I KNOW this is taking a toll on him. I feel that his obsessive neediness in the bedroom is directly related to how much LESS of a man he feels like during the day. But he says NO, that's not it and I am not sure whether I a wrong or he is in denial. I *think* things are creaking around on the business front. But in the meantime, I have had to turn what was a hobby of mine into a money making venture. I do not in any way shape or form make anything like what he used to make, but we couldn't make it now without my financial input. He says that doesn't bother him, that he isn't a Neanderthal. So, I dunno.
> 
> ...


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Is he exercising? Stress can be hard on your body - and financial stress is very difficult.
> 
> ....
> 
> As for sex, frequency and rejection. I do know one thing that works well for us is: If one of us wants to NOT connect they simply say "can we connect tomorrow night?" This is a "polite" statement. It isn't really a question. And the other person gets to say "sure no problem". And then the next night we do connect.


He does not 'workout', per se. But he likes to stay physically active, so he keeps mowing the yard and working in the garden. Also, we have horses, so he rides and works around the barn. That's the hobby I have turned to making money for us. I am teaching riding lessons and boarding other people's horses. He cannot sit around very well, so he stays busy. He has been talking about trying to find a weight bench and working out with weights. I think instead of just nodding the next time he says that, I am going to actively encourage it. I bet my son would like doing that kind of thing with him, too. 

I hear what you are saying about a nice way to put him off. For me, it still feels like I am rejecting him, no matter how I say it. Which makes me feel guilty. I feel like no matter what, I am the one in control of sex. He pretty much would be ready any old time, so all I have to do is blink the right way. Or the wrong way. Or not at all. Anything pretty much works. I am the one that ends up deciding when we have sex. Which feels almost like a burden, you know? That's why I was thinking that if we had set times for sex, it wouldn't be spontaneous, but it wouldn't be stressful either. And I could flirt 'safely' on off days. 

He is a good man. He listens. He doesn't want to pressure me, but he does want to have sex fairly frequently. We have to figure this out when we are not in the heat (or lack thereof) of the moment. Once it is at the point that I am saying, "Oh, but Bones is on.", it's a little late.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

We used to be YOU. I wanted to EVERY SINGLE DAY. What helped us - I traveled for work. No I never cheated. But she got a fair amount of "breaks" from me simply being away. 

As for my W - she was such a trooper. She pretty much did almost every single day with me. Still - resentment is not good for marriage and years and years of trying to keep up with someone who has triple your libido can be tiresome. 

My drive is so much lower now that my view of sex has changed into: Love it but don't need that much of it. 

In fact there have been weeks where a whole week without it is fine by me. 

Have you tried giving him a horse tranquilizer? If we had had a stable my W would have.



need2know said:


> He does not 'workout', per se. But he likes to stay physically active, so he keeps mowing the yard and working in the garden. Also, we have horses, so he rides and works around the barn. That's the hobby I have turned to making money for us. I am teaching riding lessons and boarding other people's horses. He cannot sit around very well, so he stays busy. He has been talking about trying to find a weight bench and working out with weights. I think instead of just nodding the next time he says that, I am going to actively encourage it. I bet my son would like doing that kind of thing with him, too.
> 
> I hear what you are saying about a nice way to put him off. For me, it still feels like I am rejecting him, no matter how I say it. Which makes me feel guilty. I feel like no matter what, I am the one in control of sex. He pretty much would be ready any old time, so all I have to do is blink the right way. Or the wrong way. Or not at all. Anything pretty much works. I am the one that ends up deciding when we have sex. Which feels almost like a burden, you know? That's why I was thinking that if we had set times for sex, it wouldn't be spontaneous, but it wouldn't be stressful either. And I could flirt 'safely' on off days.
> 
> He is a good man. He listens. He doesn't want to pressure me, but he does want to have sex fairly frequently. We have to figure this out when we are not in the heat (or lack thereof) of the moment. Once it is at the point that I am saying, "Oh, but Bones is on.", it's a little late.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

need2know said:


> He does not 'workout', per se. But he likes to stay physically active, so he keeps mowing the yard and working in the garden.


Those are good hobbies to have, but it's not really true "exercise". Getting the old ticker pumping around 65% - 75% for at least 30 minutes every other day is getting good cardiovascular health. Weight lifting is good and all, but does very little for cardio. Jogging, dancing, biking, etc are what is really good for the ol' ticker and for increasing stamina.



need2know said:


> That's why I was thinking that if we had set times for sex, it wouldn't be spontaneous, but it wouldn't be stressful either. And I could flirt 'safely' on off days.


My wife and I have it setup like that. I know it sounds weird but it's what works for us. We have 3 boys (9, 6, 18 months) with a girl due in October. With that many kids, spontaneity does not work too well! We have every other night a set time of at least 1 hour we spend together in our bedroom with the door locked. It's after the 18 month old is put to bed and the older 2 are watching TV, etc. The boys have been taught that is our alone time and there is no knocking on the door unless someone is bleeding or the house is on fire . We are not always intimate every time (although lately we have been) but we spend it as alone time. You'd be surprised at how easy it makes things for both of us. She knows that she will get at least 1 hour of my direct attention (I usually give her neck/back rubs while we watch tv). I know I get 1 hour of her time not focusing on the kids, etc.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If I were going to do this all over we would have agreed on some number of nights per week and then she could pick the nights. 

So if it was 5 nights a week, she would have chosen the 2 nights we didn't. 




need2know said:


> He does not 'workout', per se. But he likes to stay physically active, so he keeps mowing the yard and working in the garden. Also, we have horses, so he rides and works around the barn. That's the hobby I have turned to making money for us. I am teaching riding lessons and boarding other people's horses. He cannot sit around very well, so he stays busy. He has been talking about trying to find a weight bench and working out with weights. I think instead of just nodding the next time he says that, I am going to actively encourage it. I bet my son would like doing that kind of thing with him, too.
> 
> I hear what you are saying about a nice way to put him off. For me, it still feels like I am rejecting him, no matter how I say it. Which makes me feel guilty. I feel like no matter what, I am the one in control of sex. He pretty much would be ready any old time, so all I have to do is blink the right way. Or the wrong way. Or not at all. Anything pretty much works. I am the one that ends up deciding when we have sex. Which feels almost like a burden, you know? That's why I was thinking that if we had set times for sex, it wouldn't be spontaneous, but it wouldn't be stressful either. And I could flirt 'safely' on off days.
> 
> He is a good man. He listens. He doesn't want to pressure me, but he does want to have sex fairly frequently. We have to figure this out when we are not in the heat (or lack thereof) of the moment. Once it is at the point that I am saying, "Oh, but Bones is on.", it's a little late.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

need2know said:


> I kept thinking about this all through dinner and I had to jump back on and say....Isn't it funny that it was a MAN who thought that if women don't want sex, it must mean that they have never had an orgasm or that sex wasn't 'good'??
> 
> Funny men...Trix are for kids. I have had good sex. Lots and lots of good sex. But I can envision a life without sex and it wouldn't kill me. There was a time in my life I never thought I would say that. But I have had my children, I am moving into the end of my reproductive time and maybe sex drive naturally diminishes for women with the end of their reproductive years? I know it doesn't have to and doesn't for all women. But if you think of the imperative to have sex from an evolutionary standpoint, it wouldn't make sense for older women who are no longer fertile to be competing with younger, fertile women for mates. Just something to think about...



Sex is just worth so much more than the satisfaction of the physical drive. It is close connection. Or can be. It can be good clean fun. I

When my husband wants to have sex and I don't, I generally look to the OTHER things I DO want. I want to be close to him. I want to make him feel good. (I want to use lube  )


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Crypsys said:


> Those are good hobbies to have, but it's not really true "exercise". Getting the old ticker pumping around 65% - 75% for at least 30 minutes every other day is getting good cardiovascular health. Weight lifting is good and all, but does very little for cardio. Jogging, dancing, biking, etc are what is really good for the ol' ticker and for increasing stamina.


I hate the misconception that weight lifting / weight exercise is not cardio. (Sorry. This is a pet thing of mine. I have this crazy thing about debunking nutrician and exercise thingies. I heard a news report the other day that strongly implied that Ding Dongs were a health food because ... it now had real sugar instead of HFCS! Step away from the Ding Dongs! They are not health food!)


It sure can be. Anything done FAST is going to get your heart rate up.

Take a look at Welcome to CrossFit: Forging Elite Fitness

I tell you that this workout:

Complete three rounds for time of:
40 pound Dumbbell snatch, 21 reps, right arm
21 L Pull-ups
40 pound Dumbbell snatch, 21 reps, left arm
21 L Pull-ups

Post time to comments.


Is for TIME. Like as fast as you possibly can. The goal is to actually meet Mr Barfy. That would get your heart rate up! It is not only your feet and leg muscles that have the power to get your heart rate up.

That said, there are a lot of exercises that people don't consider cardio that can be. Mowing definitely can be. Go fast. My yard has a lot of hills. It is not at all hard to get my heart rate up. Ashtanga yoga is FAST and hard. AND builds good lean muscle. My heart rate is flying when it is done and my muscles sore the next day.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Exercise is important. The better shape you are in, the more stamina you will have. Your self-esteem increases too. All good things!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> It sure can be. Anything done FAST is going to get your heart rate up.


I completely agree it is possible to get cardio from weights. But take a look at 90% of the people in a gym who are lifting weights. I guarantee you they are doing at the most reps of 8 with 2 minute rests between sets. That is not going to get your heart rate going at all. People have the conception lifting weights means putting a lot on the bench and pushing it up a few times in a row. 

You CAN get cardio with weights doing things like Body pump, P-90X, etc. But from a standard typical American weight workout, there is very, very little cardio. 



vthomeschoolmom said:


> Mowing definitely can be. Go fast. My yard has a lot of hills. It is not at all hard to get my heart rate up. Ashtanga yoga is FAST and hard. AND builds good lean muscle. My heart rate is flying when it is done and my muscles sore the next day.


Yes, yoga is one of the few things that can make me sweat like a feind while staying in a 6 x 6 square area (ever done hot yoga?). But again, the thing is most people will use a propelled lawnmower (not a pushmower) and will go slow. I'm not saying it's NOT possible to get exercise that way. But, you have to see that most people do NOT push themselves when doing those kind of "jobs". 

I teach Karate and most of us get a LOT of cardio in my classes. Yet, I do have people who don't push, do things lightly and can end class not completely drenched in sweat. It's not so much the activity as it is how hard people work. That is why I always tell people running, dancing, bike riding, etc are the best ways to get cardio. Because those will raise your heart rate with the minimal amount of effort (and people are all about easy)!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My gym now has hot yoga. I'm afraid to try it.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

dbj1971 said:


> Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that *men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason* (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.).
> 
> If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.


When I am having to have sex against my wishes, I don't care WHAT the reason is. It feels the same. I have cried. It sucks. But how could I tell my husband, when he's finished, "I hated that. I'm so glad it's over."? Also, I'm sure he thinks the lights can never be on because I'm uncomfortable with my body. It's actually to protect him from seeing my face. Once, I squeezed my eyes closed so hard in an effort to block it out, that I made a weird noise and he asked if I was alright. I wanted to say, "Whoops, yeah. Finish up, let's go."

I have more that I have learned in this thread that I will be posting later. I'm still reading.


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

I have learned/realized a lot of things by reading and responding to this thread. I am going to post a new thread, to tell you about what I have found; so as not to detract from anyone actually giving tx advice.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

dbj1971 said:


> There have been so many good points made by the men and women on this thread. In fact, as a man, it is remarkable how insightful and intuitive the comments from women have been about men, and I hope the ladies feel the same way by what the men have said. For all the jokes in society about the sexes not understanding each other, when we just sit down and think, it turns out we understand each other fairly well a lot of times. Wonder of wonders, we find how much we have in common. I also understand this isn't just a "man wants sex, woman doesn't" thing; there have been other threads where it is reversed - the woman is frustrated because she wants sex and the man doesn't.
> 
> Unless I misunderstood, I believe someone in an earlier post to this thread tried to equate a man raping someone with a husband's legitimate desire (and expectation) to have intimate relations with his wife. I don't even think you're comparing apples and oranges there; it's more like trying to compare cyanide with apples. And it is my understanding that men who rape don't do it out of sexual desire but for some other psychotic reason (like hatred of women, desire to control/dominate another person, etc.). That comparison sounds like the same, tired "all men are animals," "all they do is think about sex," drone. If the poor dude just wants to make love to his unresponsive wife, that puts him in the same conversation as a rapist?? Not in a million years.
> 
> ...


:iagree::smthumbup:

I agree with everything you said here... and Im a wife/woman. My husband has denied me too long for reasons of control and I now have another... with forwarning. I stated to him that sex is the one thing that is supposed to be btwn husband and wife and not anyone else and if he wont have it with me unless I make all the beds, make the kitchen fingertip spotless and the whole house look like a museum (with 2 kids that I commute 2-6 hours a day).... hmmmm, and even then, sometimes I will have said a word the wrong way in his mind. My situation is the husband using sex to get what he wants, but his wants are completely unrealistic and not always doable, so I get punished by him saying no sex tonight, or my favorite "I was going to have sex with you but not now." I never know from day to day what will happen. So, now I have someone else and we really dont have sex, just kiss in random meeting places that dont take away from our already busy lives... like on a bike trail somewhere, steal a kiss and a smile. The best part is that is all it is... we know we will never try to leave our marriages and make something together, bc that is not possible. I can go home at night and now say no to him, and remove his hands from my body when he touches me (like he has done so many times, hundreds if not more. That is something I never had the willpower to do (bc I never knew when I would get any affection again), and now I do.

Hats off to you!


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Had first counseling session last night. Went ok. Counselor wants to meet with wife separately next and then with us together. I've asked my wife to schedule her session. So, we shall see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbj1971 (May 29, 2008)

Need2Know, with all due respect, I stand by what I said. Obviously, for you, there is some reason sex is not very fulfilling or enriching. Otherwise, I don't know how you can be so nonchalant about it. This discussion was going along pretty well until your "isn't it funny that a MAN said..." remark. So, my comment about orgasms is automatically disqualified because a man said it and not a woman. My only point in saying that about orgasms is that I have known of many women who could "take or leave" sex, and it is because their men were inconsiderate or ignorant lovers, starting and finishing too soon, before the lady even got into second gear emotionally/physically. There have been scientific studies and surveys (Redbook, Masters & Johnson, and the like) where women have admitted anonymously to never having been brought to orgasm in sex. They probably think, "Is this all there is? It's not such a big deal" because they are missing something. If you realize how much sex meant to your husband, and if you (since you) really love him, then you'd have a different perspective. 

Not everything can be boiled down to Darwinian theories. Everything thing we do as human beings, and feel, and our thoughts and our subconscious cannot be explained purely on evolution. I'm tired of hearing that if I desire such and such or if I move my hand a certain way when I shave, it's really because my cave-man ancestors or their ancester apes did that when they were carving meat, etc. Or, if I like baseball, it's because cavemen used to catch apples that fell off trees, and it's an evolution trait. Apes from a million years ago or rats in a laboratory don't represent me or you. 

If sexual desire depended only upon being physically able to procreate, then how do you explain women and men still desiring it long after menopause or even younger although they got a tubal ligation or vasectomy?

I respect all those who have posted in this thread. This will be my last post in this thread. We have gone all over with this subject, even getting into exercise discussion. By the way, I know a very good cardio workout -- it's called really hot sex. My sincere thoughts go out to the original poster and all those dealing with these hurtful issues. "Toolate," I am truly sorry to hear about your situation. It's a sad fact that some men and women's libidos are a mile apart. With love, understanding, and maturity, maybe they can meet each other somewhere in the middle. If the man expects it every night, and the woman is happy with once or twice a month (or never), maybe they can agree to try twice a week. Just don't keep score, making it like a chore or a dentist appointment. Even I am turned off by making it sound that way. There is no magical formula, no easy solution. Simple, yes, but not easy. It takes people willing to try and do the right thing. Best wishes with that. Some people can't look beyond themselves and what they want in order to do anything about another person's feelings and desires. As the Eagles once sang, "you're losing all your highs and lows, ain't it funny how the feeling goes away." So sad. Best wishes and love. Hopefully some of us can look ourselves in the mirror and be willing to change for the sake of our spouse, our marriages, our children, all we hold dear. Before it's too late.


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## need2know (Jul 13, 2010)

dbj1971 said:


> Need2Know, with all due respect, I stand by what I said. Obviously, for you, there is some reason sex is not very fulfilling or enriching. Otherwise, I don't know how you can be so nonchalant about it. This discussion was going along pretty well until your "isn't it funny that a MAN said..." remark. So, my comment about orgasms is automatically disqualified because a man said it and not a woman. My only point in saying that about orgasms is that I have known of many women who could "take or leave" sex, and it is because their men were inconsiderate or ignorant lovers, starting and finishing too soon, before the lady even got into second gear emotionally/physically. There have been scientific studies and surveys (Redbook, Masters & Johnson, and the like) where women have admitted anonymously to never having been brought to orgasm in sex. They probably think, "Is this all there is? It's not such a big deal" because they are missing something. If you realize how much sex meant to your husband, and if you (since you) really love him, then you'd have a different perspective.
> 
> Not everything can be boiled down to Darwinian theories. Everything thing we do as human beings, and feel, and our thoughts and our subconscious cannot be explained purely on evolution. I'm tired of hearing that if I desire such and such or if I move my hand a certain way when I shave, it's really because my cave-man ancestors or their ancester apes did that when they were carving meat, etc. Or, if I like baseball, it's because cavemen used to catch apples that fell off trees, and it's an evolution trait. Apes from a million years ago or rats in a laboratory don't represent me or you.
> 
> ...


What I got from this post:

A) There is something wrong with me because I *think* I could live without sex. 

B) Since I think I could live without sex, there must be something wrong with my husband's sexual technique. 

C) I am selfish because I do not want sex as much as my husband even though I am working hard to figure out a compromise that works for both of us. 

D) You prefer ego over evolution. Since you feel the need to write as if you are making pronouncements from a mountain top, that comes as no particular surprise. (BTW...writing things like "This will be my last post in this thread." sounds seriously pompous. You don't have to make a pronouncement, just don't write any more. I mean, I am pretty sure from everything else you wrote that you ARE pompous, but nobody wants to LOOK pompous, right?)

E) You don't have a firm grasp on what constitutes a cardiovascular workout. 

F) You take yourself WAY too seriously. I think it's that pompous thing. 

I was KIDDING about your orgasm comment so obviously being a male perspective...sort of. And the funniest thing of all is that your self righteous reaction just emphasizes the point I was jokingly making: That if a woman does not enjoy sex as much as a man, or need sex as much as a man, there must be something WRONG with her. Well, at least in this post you generously spread the problem to include my husband's sexual skills, but anyway, you assume that something is abnormal somewhere. There are many, MANY women who are physically healthy, emotionally healthy and completely normal who do not find sex to be a driving force after the menopause process starts (I am sure that has nothing to do with the reproductive cycle or evolution or anything. I mean, who could possibly see a connection there??). And many who still do. I would assume there is nothing 'wrong' with either group. 

But then, I am a woman.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Things are a lot better at home. I thing giving her the book was sort of a wake up call. Our communication is much better now. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BorrowedHalo (Jul 6, 2010)

need2know said:


> What I got from this post:
> 
> A) There is something wrong with me because I *think* I could live without sex.
> 
> ...


OMG!!! EXACTLY! I commented on another post somewhere on here. The woman said she had no interest...but neither did her husband. So, other posters said she was lucky that her H was the same as she was and NO ONE suggested anything was WRONG, until I suggested that it was a double standard. THEN posters began saying, "Oh I don't think it's normal...."

Also, people/things change. Interests change. I used to love sex. I used to love cross-stitch. I used to hate lettuce. Now, I'm just not interested in cross-stitch...never think about it. I like lettuce. I have found new loves in rubber stamping and teaching. Why am I completely normal for these things to change, but I'm not allowed to change how I feel about sex??!

BTW, I just want to announce that this will NOT be my last post on the matter! :rofl:


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> Things are a lot better at home. I thing giving her the book was sort of a wake up call. Our communication is much better now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm glad to see that things are improving for you!  I hope everything continues to get better!

BorrowedHalo, I agree that you can be normal no matter what your drive is. It's like sexual orientation--heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual are all legitimate orientations, and I think that all of them are normal even though heterosexual is the most common. Asexual people exist (I think the statistics say about 1% of people are truly asexual), and I think they are just as normal as the rest of the population! 

What I think is NOT normal is when one person makes the assumption that their sexual needs/wants are more important than their spouse's. Refusing to acknowledge a difference, refusing sex, refusing to talk about WHY one is refusing sex, and refusing counseling are not normal behaviors. They are selfish actions, and they devalue the other person, in the same way that some people are devalued by being told that they are abnormal. Differences in drive are common and I think that people with higher/lower drives are BOTH normal--acting like there is something "wrong" with the other person, however, is disrespectful and invalidating.

Also, men and women need to understand that there are differences at a basic physiological level in how each gender experiences sex. Despite our best efforts, we will never be able to understand fully how the other gender experiences it, so it's hard to make assumptions or claims given this fact. I guess this means that we will have to LISTEN and COMMUNICATE our differences with our partners


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Update: Back to the same problems. What I thought was working didn't last. Damn it! Back to frustration.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What happened?


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

turnera said:


> What happened?



I started another thread giving an update. Basically, she fell and hurt her ribs last Fall. The recovery has been very slow. Lots of pain. I waited on her constantly while she could barely move. Brought her food, helped her in and out of recliner, etc. She says her ribs are still hurting. I feel like I can't touch her for fear of causing the ribs to hurt. 

She has gone back to her typical excuses for not wanting to be intimate. Too tired, not tired, let's just cuddle, I'll give her a kiss when in bed and she will say "Night!". That is a clear message to not try anything more. Basically, the same old routine with hurt ribs on top of it.

I ask her to go for walks, go to the gym to workout with me, try some of my interests (archery, shooting sports). She has shown no interest. She quilts a lot. Don't ask me to take up quilting. That isn't going to happen! LOL

BTW, she never made the effort to go to the counseling session. I kept asking and she kept making excuses. 

I feel like we are more like roommates again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry, but you know what I'm going to say - she is that way because you're not pushing her. Are you willing to stay in this limbo for another year? Five years? Ten?

If so, no point talking about it.

If not, time to TELL her that you won't.


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## Jadegreen (Apr 4, 2011)

tx - been following a few of your posts and this is pretty frustrating. I'm pretty frustrated in my situation which is why I'm following this. strikes me, from reading yours, that there has to be a starter place. for one, a concept that marriage includes sex, and even if a person never feels like it, that this is a problem just because marriage should have sex. it might be an idea just to have that kind of conversation. like a "what's your concept" of marriage. If it turns out that she really thinks a companionable but not passionate partnership is fine, then you might want to think about some options like (a) divorcing and trying again, (b) polyamory or an open marriage, (c) limited use of paid sex services (with her consent), etc. I'm not advocating any of these options - just suggesting you open the door to reality. If it turns out that she agrees that marriage should have sex (even just a few times a year) then maybe ask her why that isn't happening. she might not really know. or she might have some kind of crazy ideas like it has to be when she is perfect and you are perfect etc. However, that is a starting point. she might not see her role in it - she might blame it on you. but at least it is a starting point. also, go see a counsellor to help you work through your own feelings while you deal with her responses. basically - this is important, so best find out what`s going on. and keep us posted. I am going to start a post on successful steps.


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm on the same boat - I get "hurry up and get it over with sex" when I get it. If I wasn't so starved for affection I would tell her no, I'm not accepting it. But when you're starving and someone hands you a McDonald's hamburger, its hard to say "no, I'm not accepting anything less than a Kobe filet."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

finebyme, what are you doing to change your marriage so that she WANTS to have sex with you?


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

@turnera: She's told me there's not much I can do so that she wants more sex. 

But the quantity isn't as big a deal as the quality. I'd be much happier if she emotionally engaged with me instead of "allowing me" to have sex with her. 

Why, do you have a suggestion? I'm certainly open to them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's either lying or doesn't know WHY she's not into you. 

Women have to have an emotional connection to want to do it. 

Men have to do it to have an emotional connection. 

But since you're the one with the drive, it behooves you to find out how to give your wife the emotional connection she needs.

Get this book, see if she'll read it with you out loud, or after you. But read it! It explains everything. His Needs Her Needs, by W. Harley.

It explains that a marriage is a compilation of committing/eliminating Love Busters and meeting/avoiding Emotional Needs. You have to (1) eliminate all LBs (things you do or don't do that make your wife unhappy) and (2) meet her top 5 ENs (things that are super important to her to be happy.

An LB could be something you do (like my husband leaving dirty Q-tips all over the house) or something you don't do (like my husband never hanging up the curtains in the bathroom, for 9 years!). Added up, these things create an air of discontent, unhappiness, resentment. She may not even be aware of them; she just knows she's not as happy as she used to be, or wants to be. Your job is to find and stop your LBs.

An EN is different for each person, and is LEGITIMATE for them, no matter what you may think. Because my husband never takes care of the house, my #1 EN is domestic support. If he changed and did that for me, fixed all the things that need to be fixed, helped with the dishes or laundry, etc., I would be on Cloud 9. Your wife's ENs could be affection, honesty, financial support, recreation, admiration...the list is endless.

YOUR job is to LEARN what makes her unhappy (and stop it) and what makes her happy (and start it), so that, when she looks at you, she sees the man who is her everything. The book explains how to do that. I give it to people getting married.

Another thing to learn is Love Languages. There's a book called The 5 Love Languages, which explains that you have to learn HER LL, and show her love in the way SHE can receive it. Mine is acts of service; my husband's is tangible gifts. If he gives me gifts, but ignores what I asked for (for him to spend the day organizing his office), I am unhappy. No matter how great his gift is. Because that's what HE wanted to give me, not what I wanted to receive. Make sense?


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

OP: Every other married man is in your situation, the majority of all marriages seem to be more or less sexless because the woman doesn't have any desire. I guess I don't have any advice that can help you... I don't think there is a way to change situations such as these. It seems like it's just not in womens nature to like sex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It is if the man makes it worth it for her, makes her care.


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## steak (May 6, 2011)

turnera said:


> It is if the man makes it worth it for her, makes her care.


Yeah always the husbands fault 

The OP doesn't AT ALL seem like one of those jerks who just wants to have sex for only his own pleasure. What can he really do? He says it's lack of physical intimacy and sex... It seems to be a one way street. He seems to be the only one who cares. He seems to love his wife more than she loves him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you read my other thread? It's not just created out of thin air. It's based on decades of research, interviews, and statistics. Men and woman work differently. They just do. Ignore that at your own risk - and at the risk of getting the amount of sex you want.

Men have the drive all the way back from caveman days, to get the species procreating. Women had no say. Now that you can no longer club her on the head and drag her back to your cave, you have to deal with reality - she controls her body. It behooves you to figure out what makes her tick, what keeps her hot and heavy for you. 

PEA chemicals, which you both feel when you're dating, FADE AWAY. They are biologically designed to disappear within about 3 years. Once that 'high' is gone, you have to figure out how to make the woman still invested in sex. Sucks, but it's true. And how you do that is by eliminating your LBs, meeting her ENs, and keeping your marriage fresh by spending 10-15 hours a week together doing non-work/household-related things. As if you were still dating. 

Am I saying you have to jump around like a toy to please her? Of course not. You just have to pay attention to what makes her tick, and be the ONE person who makes her smile and makes her want to please you.

We don't know ANYTHING about OP (in this case, finebyme) and his wife other than that she's not into sex as much as him. There are a LOT of things he can be changing (as can you) to make that different.

If you're talking about finebyme, her wanting to get it over with likely has NOTHING to do with whether she loves him.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree with tunera! It is not only well documented but painfully obvious that women and men are inherently different creatures driven by different stimuli. Would watching a woman clean the house turn you on? Not likely, yet many many women report feeling more amorous when they see their man doing so. Go figure! That's just one small example nonetheless a factual one. 

But the fact remains that it takes 2 to tango so it takes both willing to see the others dilemma and make compromises towards resolution that is mutually acceptable. If one of the parties are unwilling to care for the others needs you evetually drift apart.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Stonewall said:


> But the fact remains that it takes 2 to tango so it takes both willing to see the others dilemma and make compromises towards resolution that is mutually acceptable. If one of the parties are unwilling to care for the others needs you evetually drift apart.


:iagree:

fixing any marriage problem should not be on one person. it has to be discussed, acknowledged and worked on together. lack of sex is no different


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

I am very certain my wife loves me and I love her. I'm pretty sure there are some self esteem issues on her part and there are definitely some romance issues on my part - we have two kids, a business, etc so I'm not as romantic as I could be. She's never really said what her language of love is and I really haven't figured it out. We talked about specifically that a while ago and she still didn't tell me.

In any case, my wife has always had a much lower sex drive than me but it didn't seem this low (we have sex 1-2 times a week at best but she said she would be happy with once or twice a month at most).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Such a drive is, frankly, pretty common in females. Biologically speaking. To get more, YOU are going to have to figure her out, with or without her help, and become more appealing. Learn about what works. Educate yourself. Get the book I recommended.

How much time do you spend together without the kids and not working on the house? That is a BIG BIG problem, probably the #1 thing. She has to still feel like a desirable woman, apart from housework and kids, to want to do it more. You have to keep a spark going. Make it interesting. Make it worth her time. I can't tell you how many hundreds of times I've simply thought 'jeez, I worked all day, came home and became housewife and mom for 5 more hours, while he sat and watched tv instead of helping me, and NOW he wants me to be turned on just because all the other work is out of the way? I'm too damned tired.'


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## SHYONcE (Jul 12, 2011)

i skimmed ahead...



BorrowedHalo said:


> I have said, that YES, I HAVE SEEN A DOCTOR. SHE SAID I'M NORMAL. And, I HAVE told my husband, through tears on one of those nights when he is exasperated because I've said "no" again...I have said, "I don't EVER want it."
> 
> But, if you knew my husband you would know that he would NEVER leave. If he left, a court would tell him how much money he would have to give me.


Have you considered trying other doctors?? sometimes if you actually want something fixed and the first repair person cant get the job done, you try another and another until its working again. It seems like you dont even want to try, and your attitude seems to suggest that money is some important factor in your relationship or a pawn. i might be wrong about the money thing but your attitude about him leaving you suggests that to me..



TXHUNTER54
Your relationship sounds similar to my father's with my mother. I learned that they never had sex pretty much after they had my younger sister and my mom even had her tubes tied ... They got divorced when we were finished with highschool. It took my dad ten years but he remarried and him and his new wife actually seem to like each other and kiss !! i only remember my mom and dad hugging and kissing once when i was a child 

so tell her that you need it, and complain until then or maybe get MC?? Id say D but try MC first if you love her enough? im not an expert. 

in fairness my w and i usually have it 2 times a week and she knows its important to me, And we do have issues but we still get intimate freq enough to keep me feeling content about that. there are times where things might be going on but seven days of nothing and i am get persistant and let her know (when its appropriate).


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## jjp (Jul 13, 2011)

This sounds a lot like my marriage. For most of 10 years, we had sex rarely and I never masturbated and tried to initiate nicely and at opportune times. Due to low frequency, I struggled with blueballs and felt physically miserable and resentful toward my wife. I also understood her position--we both work, have 2 kids, share household responsibilities, etc. I don't look at porn and for over 10 years had sex about once a week and that was mostly quickies and handjobs from my wife. Not having sex has been very hurtful to me--emotionally & physically. Having sex or talking about it has been like a punishment for my wife. The thing is, we love each other and are happy--except for this. One evening after she initiated a terrible handjob, I stopped her and said "look, I want sex to be nice for you and I need more. Do you mind if I jerk off in bed next to you when you're not in the mood?" We share religious convictions that discourage masturbation and I was nervous proposing this (i know how old fashioned this is). Anyway, since then we sometimes only have sex once a month, but it is great quality. I regularly masturbate next to her, but don't look at porn. This compromise has allowed me to have an outlet and I no longer suffer from painful blue balls. I no longer feel guilty for adding to her list of to-dos. I worried that she'd think I am a perv for needing to jerk off. But, instead, I think by learning about my drive she's become kinder and nicer. She'll say, "wow, you're really horny" and smile, not feeling that this is one more thing she has to do. She has been much more giving in bed when she is in the mood and the resentment is gone from both sides. This isn't ideal, but has taken away a wall between us. Is this arangement common to any of you? Borrowed Halo, could you reach a compromise like this where you both feel safe and validated?


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## jenis (Feb 9, 2011)

Ok, as a woman maybe it just hasn't hit me yet, or I'm built a little differently, but I just can't relate. I'm mid-40's, have a 20+ year marriage, four children, a career, and a real need for sex. When I'm on, I'm on, and really don't require much in the way of emotional support to want it. With my H (preferably) or solo, it doesn't matter. Post period up through ovulation, lookout!!

Maybe this isn't typical, but I'd say most of my female friends (some in their 50's and beyond) when we've had frank discussions also have a desire for sex. Maybe they don't want it from their partner for whatever reason, but they still have a desire for it. Hey, I know everyone is different, but I don't think a majority women always need to be figured out in order for us to want/desire sex.

To the OP, I'm sorry it is this way for you, I really hope you both can find a way to work this out. You sound like a fine man with a good heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jenis, I assume you've done enough research to realize that women's sex drives don't usually peak until their 30s or 40s?

Your comment about your friends having a desire BUT NOT WITH THEIR HUSBANDS, surely you see the problem in this?


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## jenis (Feb 9, 2011)

turnera said:


> Your comment about your friends having a desire BUT NOT WITH THEIR HUSBANDS, surely you see the problem in this?


Ok, it's one friend out of quite a few, and yes I agree that's a problem.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Interesting how these threads can take on a life of their own. LOL

As the OP, I'm continuing to try to work with my wife on our intimacy issues. It is a very slow process. My suggestions are met with resistance and she doesn't want to offer suggestions of how to make it better. She has also been very resistant to counseling too. 

At this point, having third party input is needed, imho, to get us moving in the right direction.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry about the t/j. 

I agree, you guys need professional help. Make that a requirement.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I've scheduled another appt for me with the therapist. Will tell my wife that she needs to go too. I'm tired of the same crap. Nothing is changing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you ready to leave her if she won't go to counseling? If so, let her know that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did I ever recommend that you print out the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires from marriagebuilders.com? That may be a last-ditch effort, to get her to see what you are NOT getting from her. And couch it with your notice that you are not happy and will not be staying in a loveless marriage. She's comfortable. You're her comfort zone. Show her you're not willing to just be her SugarDaddy.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

I printed out the questionnaires. I'll fill mine out and talk to her about filling hers out.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, I once again got shot down. I suggested we turn the tv's off and go fool around. She claimed she had a headache and was going to take some advil and lie down. WTF? She spent the last two hours on her laptop and watching two different tv shows she likes. I watched them with her. She never mentioned she had a headache. Then, she tried to start an argument over some cleaning I agreed to do. She almost started cleaning and I stopped her and reminded her that I would do it. She started to argue and I told her it was not worth arguing over and that I would clean the items. That diffused the situation. She is now in the bedroom lying down after taking some advil. The items she wanted cleaned are now clean as I promised. 

This situation is not acceptable at all.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She has no reason to exert herself. You clean, you let her get away with no sex, you kiss up to her, you avoid telling her the truth out of fear...you're her b*tch. Women hate that.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

turnera said:


> She has no reason to exert herself. You clean, you let her get away with no sex, you kiss up to her, you avoid telling her the truth out of fear...you're her b*tch. Women hate that.


The items needing cleaning were some golf clubs. Not housework.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

txhunter54 said:


> The items needing cleaning were some golf clubs. Not housework.


Why would she give a rat's ass if your golf clubs were clean?

At least I'm hoping that's the case ... because otherwise I'm left wondering why you would give a rat's ass if her golf clubs were clean?

Under the current circumstances you should neither offer up, nor accept being volunteered for any 'acts of service' that benefit her.

She resents you ... big time, warranted or not. Her claiming to have a headache and then further feeding that resentment by pointing out what you HAVEN'T done is classic. You are in a negative feedback loop.
Stop doing things FOR her. Wanna know why? Because at this point, in her mind, she believes that you are doing them, hoping that sex will result. And it won't. Not ever. Because she is anchored to that belief. She wants and expects you to perform ... and at the same time uses it as fuel for resentment.

You need to break that dynamic.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> The items needing cleaning were some golf clubs. Not housework.


The anger about cleaning golf clubs was a diversion to distance herself from you. 

Do you plan go to therapy even if she does not go? You have obviously reached a crossroads and you need a long-range plan with contingencies.

If she remains resistant to your attempts to improve your marriage, what next. Plan in your mind how you will manage, how long you will give it a try and what you will do if nothing works. 

I've read that some partners will not change until the status quo changes. Right now she has a husband, albeit unhappy, who does all of the husbandy things.

What if you were not there? I am not suggesting that you leave, I think it is worth putting in the work to improve. 

But, you can give her a taste of what it would be like without you. How about changes things up. Instead of seeming to work on the relationship, work on yourself. 

Change your look, update clothing, change hair style, lose weight, exercise find activities to do outside of home, make new same sex friends, take up new interests. In other words, start making a life for yourself that may not involve your wife. 

Be very nice and loving with her but stop talking about the relationship. Don't ask her about going to therapy, you go. If she reacts by pulling away even more than you know she does not care. 

At that point, you have to decide what you want to do.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> The anger about cleaning golf clubs was a diversion to distance herself from you.
> 
> Do you plan go to therapy even if she does not go? You have obviously reached a crossroads and you need a long-range plan with contingencies.
> 
> ...


I'm taking care of myself. I work out 5 days a week and have lost 35 lbs and 6 inches in my waist. I have been to therapy and have a session scheduled for Monday. I've had to buy new clothes due to the weight loss and getting in shape. I enjoy golf, archery, shooting sports and hunting. So, plenty of outside activities already.

Ladies who know me have complimented me on my physical transformation.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> you're her b*tch. Women hate that.



If by hate you mean love and spend every waking moment forcing that into existence, yeah. My blushing bride has said more than once that what she (and all women) wants is an employee.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

txhunter54 said:


> I'm taking care of myself. I work out 5 days a week and have lost 35 lbs and 6 inches in my waist. I have been to therapy and have a session scheduled for Monday. I've had to buy new clothes due to the weight loss and getting in shape. I enjoy golf, archery, shooting sports and hunting. So, plenty of outside activities already.
> 
> Ladies who know me have complimented me on my physical transformation.


You sound great. 

I dont get it. I don't understand why a wife would not have sex with a husband that, if he is being honest, does not sound too shabby. 

I am LD and I get the not thinking about sex much, however, I don't understand not wanting to be aroused. The rate-limiting step for me is getting my mind in tune with my body. I empty my mind and focus on my husband and it is that easy to get aroused if I get warmed up slowly (10 mins). It has failed only when I am sick or exhausted. 

I really think that any LD spouse could do the same it they wanted. 

There were some women posting earlier in the thread explaining why they did not have sex with their husbands. I wonder if they are still reading and will come back and say why they don't allow themselves to be aroused even if they are not thinking about sex. Thanks for posting, it is invaluable to get honest exchange and I hope you understand some people are rather raw and will attack. 

The only difference between me and my husband is that I don't anticipate or think of sex that often. My husband thinks about sex much more than I thought before I started to read about human sexuality. But I enjoy sex as much as he does but in different ways.

I think we are normal. The elements that bring us together are that we try to understand each other and to accommodate each other. The disconnect may happen when one person refuses to accept the nature of the other. 

My husband accepts that I am LD, we know what I need to get up and running and we do it. It is like a moving target at times, because it is not always the same. It depends on my mood, stress level and where I am in my cycle. 

With all of that, he accepts me and my complexities. He is playful and relaxed about things and never seems exasperated with me when things seem to change. I probably drive him nuts but I don't mean to. His attitude makes it easy for me, plus he is hot.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You sound great.
> 
> My husband accepts that I am LD, we know what I need to get up and running and we do it. It is like a moving target at times, because it is not always the same. It depends on my mood, stress level and where I am in my cycle.


My wife and I joke that women (and her in particular) are fires and men are firefighters.

I am ready whenever. For her, the conditions need to be right. Part of what we work on is getting those conditions right.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What was that old research? That men think of it something like 7 times an hour?

In my caes, I don't look forward to it because of childhood repression issues, to the point that my subconscious freezes me up and puts me in self-protect mode. DH knows this and knows he has to take it slowly, and help me unwind - rubbing my back, my arm, cuddling, whatever. And even though it's always great and amazing (he makes sure of it), I still don't willingly look forward to it and don't initiate unless I'm specifically trying to please him.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

turnera said:


> What was that old research? That men think of it something like 7 times an hour?
> 
> In my caes, I don't look forward to it because of childhood repression issues, to the point that my subconscious freezes me up and puts me in self-protect mode. DH knows this and knows he has to take it slowly, and help me unwind - rubbing my back, my arm, cuddling, whatever. And even though it's always great and amazing (he makes sure of it), I still don't willingly look forward to it and don't initiate unless I'm specifically trying to please him.


Turnera,

There is concern that she didn't have a two parent family growing up. So, she never saw interaction of her mother with her father (good or bad). I don't think her dad dated much if at all after her mom died. She could see what her friend's parents acted like. But, in front of kids, there likely wasn't a lot of public displays of affection by her friend's parents towards each other. She did have a grandmother and grandfather in town (her mom's parents).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, my issues were more along the line of being told I'd go to hell if I did it, lol, but I can see how having no role models can do a number on you. The good thing about THAT possibility is that, together, you can find comfort and pleasure through exploration and learning.

How's it going with the MC planning?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know, there are therapists who specialize in just that thing.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You sound great.
> 
> I dont get it. I don't understand why a wife would not have sex with a husband that, if he is being honest, does not sound too shabby.
> 
> ...


My husband and I are very much the same way. Not that uncommon, I think. The key to success is that the lower drive is willing to be aroused.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Tx ~

Has your wife ever been very sexual? When you were younger - honeymoon stage? Anytime? Or has she always been like this?


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

turnera said:


> Well, my issues were more along the line of being told I'd go to hell if I did it, lol, but I can see how having no role models can do a number on you. The good thing about THAT possibility is that, together, you can find comfort and pleasure through exploration and learning.
> 
> How's it going with the MC planning?



As of this morning, I got her to not use the word "Maybe" as that historically has meant NO! Will discuss further tonight.


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## southerngirl210 (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm in a similar situation (as your wife) with my husband. I do love him, I just don't want any sexual or even physical contact with him. A lot of it stems back to issues we've had in the past and the way he has treated me. Hasn't always been great. Emotional and verbal abuse. We sought out counseling, went through the whole telling each other how we feel and trying new things, and it worked for a while but it left again. Sometimes, it's not about the cleaning dishes, taking trash out, or even sending flowers thing... it's about telling us things. Telling her why you love her, or how much you appreciate her, how you want to work through this, how beautiful she is, sexy, etc. DO NOT ASK HER what you can do to change. Because it's not you. It's her. If you want to ask anything, ask what you can do to help her.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

southerngirl210 said:


> sometimes, it's not about the cleaning dishes, taking trash out, or even sending flowers thing... It's about telling us things.* telling her why you love her, or how much you appreciate her, how you want to work through this, how beautiful she is, sexy, etc. *do not ask her what you can do to change. Because* it's not you. It's her. *if you want to ask anything, ask what you can do to help her.


:iagree::iagree:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And I would disagree completely, in MY situation. I couldn't care less what my husband tells me, because his actions - as he lies asleep while I've been working all day long - show that he doesn't give a flip.

The point is...learn what YOUR spouse needs and wants.


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## HopelessRomantic0989 (Jul 30, 2011)

I know how you feel. A trip to Sam's Club doesn't count either haha But we're a young couple. It's tough. Best of wishes to you! You deserve to be happy!


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## moonlander (Aug 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> She's either lying or doesn't know WHY she's not into you.
> 
> Women have to have an emotional connection to want to do it.
> 
> Men have to do it to have an emotional connection.


I can't tell you how *strongly* I disagree with those two assertions. 

They are probably meant as just 'sweeping generalizations' but if so, please offer proper caveats when you do such.

Even as sweeping generalizations, I suspect the first statement is true for a weak majority at best and the second is just plain wrong and ridiculously stereotypical.

Let me state my own assertion very clearly: Men (in general) do not have to do it to have an emotional connection.

I'm sure that _some_ men might need to. But men in general do not.

Men are quite emotional independent of sex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, the vast majority of research and books on the subject would disagree with you.


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## moonlander (Aug 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> Well, the vast majority of research and books on the subject would disagree with you.


That is a blatant appeal to authority to back up an assertion without evidence.

You made a pair of sweeping generalizations in expressing your conception of reality. That's fine. But acknowledge it for what it is.

Your second assertion (about men) is easy to prove wrong. It only takes one man who does not fit that assertion. I know I do not. Therefore I know it is wrong.


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## moonlander (Aug 5, 2011)

TX,

Thank you for sharing you experiences on this thread. I have found it all very personally interesting based on the many echos of my own situation. I do not at this time presume to have a solution for you and only can offer my hope that you find a way to a happier state.

Good luck, and I hope you can continue to share how it goes.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

moonlander said:


> TX,
> 
> Thank you for sharing you experiences on this thread. I have found it all very personally interesting based on the many echos of my own situation. I do not at this time presume to have a solution for you and only can offer my hope that you find a way to a happier state.
> 
> Good luck, and I hope you can continue to share how it goes.


Thanks!

Right now, she is dealing with a flare up of allergies. She's slept in the den in a recliner the last couple of nights due to drainage from the allergies. Clearly, this has her not feeling very sexy at all. I understand!


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## katc (Aug 7, 2011)

Susan2010 hit the nail on the head for me:

"One that often applies is built up resentment for her husband's behavior and the way he treats her".

Not interested in having sex with a man who I have lost respect for.


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## Summergirl (Aug 17, 2011)

The problem is not you!! I am in your situation, but I am a woman (which makes me feel worse because the stereotype is the cold, uninterested woman; so I am essentially the man, here). Plus, stereotypically, all men are supposed to want sex. I am young, attractive, and in very good physical shape despite having a 1 and 3 yr old. I could be bare-ass naked or scantilly clad in hot, sexy lingerie and I wouldn't get a flicker of interest--not a second look. Heck, not even a first look! It makes me feel bad about myself. I know that he loves me but I want him to feel the way I do--to want me like I want him. The hugs and kisses you talked about is like a mirror image for me! It is so one-sided and the feeling is kinda like, "Ok, are you done yet?" The same with the nice, fun night with friends--then TV and late to bed with nothing! Just out of curiousity--was your love life ever good? Mine used to be smoking hot and I mean HOT. But things are very different now. My advice? There is NO answer. There is NO magic solution. I have read things, tried things, all to no avail. Are you a spiritual person? Give this to God. In the natural, the situation seems hopeless. Like it is impossible, unfixable. But The Lord is a supernatural God. He has given me many miracles, and I believe bringing back the love and intimacy my husband and I once had will be another one. It might not happen overnight, but if you stand in faith it is possible. In the meantime, try to be good to your wife and realize there is no intent to hurt you. She can't help her feelings any more than you can help yours.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Since there's no on on Earth who knows why women HAVE sex there's no one either, who know why they don't.


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Summergirl said:


> The problem is not you!! I am in your situation, but I am a woman (which makes me feel worse because the stereotype is the cold, uninterested woman; so I am essentially the man, here). Plus, stereotypically, all men are supposed to want sex. I am young, attractive, and in very good physical shape despite having a 1 and 3 yr old. I could be bare-ass naked or scantilly clad in hot, sexy lingerie and I wouldn't get a flicker of interest--not a second look. Heck, not even a first look! It makes me feel bad about myself. I know that he loves me but I want him to feel the way I do--to want me like I want him. The hugs and kisses you talked about is like a mirror image for me! It is so one-sided and the feeling is kinda like, "Ok, are you done yet?" The same with the nice, fun night with friends--then TV and late to bed with nothing! Just out of curiousity--was your love life ever good? Mine used to be smoking hot and I mean HOT. But things are very different now. My advice? There is NO answer. There is NO magic solution. I have read things, tried things, all to no avail. Are you a spiritual person? Give this to God. In the natural, the situation seems hopeless. Like it is impossible, unfixable. But The Lord is a supernatural God. He has given me many miracles, and I believe bringing back the love and intimacy my husband and I once had will be another one. It might not happen overnight, but if you stand in faith it is possible. In the meantime, try to be good to your wife and realize there is no intent to hurt you. She can't help her feelings any more than you can help yours.


I tend to disagree with your last statement. I think she can help her feelings. But, she needs to look inside herself and figure out what is causing those feelings (physical, mental, things I've done, etc.) Until she starts attempting to address those things, she has no clue why her feelings are what they are. 

For me, I had some health issues that may have caused mood swings. But, I also had built up resentment toward her due to many years of rejection and emotional abuse. I've fixed me through medical treatments, eating right and working out. I'm basically a new person or more like the person I was years ago before the health issues. I've also gone to individual counseling to try to better understand my marriage situation. I want a healthy marriage including sexual intimacy.

Unfortunately, my wife has not "fixed herself" and she has not shown any inclination to go to counseling (individual or marriage). She won't exercise or eat right. Sometimes I wonder if her allergies are psychosomatic (works herself up to feeling bad to avoid intimacy). I know she has gained weight and may have self-esteem issues. But, she can be the nicest person in the world to others as I've witnessed when she is with friends and co-workers. So, I don't know if it is physical, mental, prior abuse, or what.

Sometimes I wonder if she is just showing enough affection to keep me interested and then cycles back down to no intimacy until I bring it up as an issue again. I'm using the two weeks away to cool things down and see what the situation looks like when I return home.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why don't you just decide what you can and can't live with, relay that to her, and then make plans to leave if she won't make the changes?


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## txhunter54 (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok, I'm back from the two week business trip. Affection from my wife seems to be better. But, she is still fighting allergies and upper respiratory infection and is on antibiotics and coughing. So, the opportunities for sex are just not there.

We had a nice date to a movie on Saturday. We sat close together and held hands during the movie. That was a pleasant change from the past.

Since she still doesn't feel good, she clearly isn't in the mood for sex. 

We went shopping for clothes after the movie. I offered to buy her some lingerie. She said she wanted to lose 50 lbs before buying sexy lingerie. At least she is recognizing she needs to lose weight.

So, communication is better. But, intimacy is still low.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Work up to it. Instead of full on, give her a foot massage. Rub her shoulders. Ask her to rub yours. Give each other massages. Read a book together. Do a puzzle together. CREATE intimacy.


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## southernmagnolia (Apr 12, 2011)

turnera said:


> Why don't you just decide what you can and can't live with, relay that to her, and then make plans to leave if she won't make the changes?


That's IT. Simple and to the point.


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## AguyinMI (Jun 16, 2015)

southernmagnolia said:


> That's IT. Simple and to the point.


I've been married 27 years now. I have been in counseling by myself several time and we went though couples counseling together. 

The one statement that has stuck in my head though all these years of me trying is, "It will be like this until YOU decide it will no longer be like this". 

Which I took to mean, either accept it as it is, or leave and go try to be happy elsewhere. Remember, you are not responsible for anyone's happiness but your own.


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## CASE_Sensitive (Jul 22, 2013)

Hurry!....Jon Snow also needs to be raised from the dead!!!


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

What...Jon died????


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

No, but given the fact that the interns are writing the TV series plots while GRRM is busy being, well, GRRM...


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## life_huppens (Jun 3, 2015)

Summergirl said:


> The problem is not you!! I am in your situation, but I am a woman (which makes me feel worse because the stereotype is the cold, uninterested woman; so I am essentially the man, here). Plus, stereotypically, all men are supposed to want sex. I am young, attractive, and in very good physical shape despite having a 1 and 3 yr old. I could be bare-ass naked or scantilly clad in hot, sexy lingerie and I wouldn't get a flicker of interest--not a second look. Heck, not even a first look! It makes me feel bad about myself. I know that he loves me but I want him to feel the way I do--to want me like I want him. The hugs and kisses you talked about is like a mirror image for me! It is so one-sided and the feeling is kinda like, "Ok, are you done yet?" The same with the nice, fun night with friends--then TV and late to bed with nothing! Just out of curiousity--was your love life ever good? Mine used to be smoking hot and I mean HOT. But things are very different now. My advice? There is NO answer. There is NO magic solution. I have read things, tried things, all to no avail. Are you a spiritual person? Give this to God. In the natural, the situation seems hopeless. Like it is impossible, unfixable. But The Lord is a supernatural God. He has given me many miracles, and I believe bringing back the love and intimacy my husband and I once had will be another one. It might not happen overnight, but if you stand in faith it is possible. In the meantime, try to be good to your wife and realize there is no intent to hurt you. She can't help her feelings any more than you can help yours.


Summergirl, are you sure he does not have some health issues like a prostate, or testosterone deficiency. Have you talk to the doctor? To me you sounds like a young couple. For a young man it is difficult to tell the doctor about bedroom issues. Try to see specialist. It could be fairly easy corrected. 
Good luck.


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