# Just saw this email...Please help me before I lose it...seriously. I feel SICK



## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

My original post is below...very quickly, I didn't like closeness of husband and his female friend at work (even if it was an overreaction of mine). He said he would stop being friends etc. 

Fast forward a year later, we get an invitation in the mail for her son's birthday party at home. He said he knew NOTHING about it, wasn't going to respond, etc.

(Side note, I'm 1 month post partum right now so I'm feeling VERY emotional)

Today for SOME reason I checked his email, and I see this email he wrote her yesterday (party was today):

________,
Please do not reply to this email or mention it to anyone. We got the invitation to ___'s birthday in the mail and it was a problem. Needless to say we are not going to be attending the party tomorrow, however we do have a party at the same location at noon and it is possible we may run into you there. if that happens, please do not talk to me or ___(me--his wife) or even acknowledge us in any way. Again, i am asking that you keep this email confidential and not share it with anyone. if work people ask if we are going, please say you don't know or you never heard back. 

thank you._


This has NOTHING to do with the content but the fact that he LIED. He lied. He said he didn't communicate with her. He said he doesn't at all unless necessary. He said he wasn't going to respond about the party in any way. I want to call her and say why do you keep insisting on being friends with my husband? But I know it's HE who answers to me, NOT her. 

I want to yell at him right now...instead I'm sitting here steaming and I am going into shut down mode.

What do I do? 

This was my post from before...

ORIGINAL POST:
I've posted about my situation in the past. Short story--I didnt like DH's female friend at work, nothing inappropriate ever but I didnt like how it was only real friend because he's not social anyways and I'd rather him have more friends...plus he spent more time looking at her FB page which I didnt like (this happened right after we had our first kid). Then he said he wasnt friwnsly at all anymore with her. Then we went to a kids party and I saw her being social with him and realized he never told me that he was social again with her at work, like not super friendly but I wanted it to be only work related only. After workjng through a counselor, communication stuff/books everything has been a lot better. 

Fast forward to today, we recently had our 2nd baby and in the mail is an invitation to her kids' birthday party. WHY would we get an invite??? I've seen her at other parties and we dont talk anymore (we used to be friendly with each other when husband was friends). Husband wasnt at the kids parties so i dont know he would react-- i guess/hope not talk to her but now i dont know. 

We just got the invite and immediately im upset--why invite us? My husband says he's surprised and has no idea why she would. He said he only talks to her at work if necessary. I said she would get the message ur not friends if you made that clear--obviously u didnt. Its like bringing up old wounds again, making me upset. This ruined the first time at home with our first baby and I feel that pain again. 

What do I do? I dont want to talk to him, i feel like this is going to put me over the edge with baby blues. I am not going to tell him this but I want him to call her in front of me, say we cant go and ask why she invited us. Or make it clear to her they are not friends. 

Im upset


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

I feel horrible. I'm already stressed with taking care of a newborn and other things and now this. 

I want to know how to approach this...he is going to be able to tell something is wrong. I can't put on a facade. I want him to call her IN FRONT OF ME. 

Now I'm wondering, when else can he communicated with her? I know it may be about nothing, but the promise was to be HONEST. HONEST. That was the point. 

I feel SICK!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

He is in a no win situation. If he told you he communicated he'd be in trouble. If you see her and she acts friendly he's in trouble.

He's trying to rectify a bad situation with the least amount of damage.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Are you seeing a therapist for the post partum? I wouldn't be crazy about my wife telling me I answer only to her. Do you want to be his wife or mother?


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

OMG

He never sent it!

He wrote it as a draft...he thought to himself it would be deceitful, I would be hurt etc

And he never sent it. 

I wish he came to me to tell me his thoughts, but I am not so upset anymore because he didn't send it. Thank God because I thought we were WAY beyond that and in a much better place.

Thankfully he did think about it and how it would affect me and he said the only reason he wrote it was because he wanted to avoid any potential fights...he was really concerned about my reaction to any interaction.

It makes me feel so low that he would think that of me but I guess I showed him my true colors in the past.

Anyways, thanks for reading. We talked, I said again I have to work on my reaction and he said he has to work on being able to tell me what's on his mind.

Thank God because what we have is really good.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

yellowstar said:


> Thank God because I thought we were WAY beyond that and in a much better place.



Thank God for what? He wasn't cheating on you to begin with. Nor did that email look anything like he was sneaking around behind your back. Yes he lied, because you are acting nuts and putting him in an impossible situation. 

OK, I'll try to keep this on an even keel because you say you have emotional issues post-partum. But the word "psycho wife" comes to mind. I mean, holy cow, you freaked out because he spoke to a female co-worker at a social event?

You got an invitation to his co-worker's child's birthday party. Guess what, that is NORMAL, and it's hardly an opening salvo to start an affair. 

He has to work with this person. He was just trying to cut down on communication with her, while at the same time trying to give her at least a minimum explanation so he doesn't look like he's angry at her or a psycho himself. 

Unless you have more evidence that he's considering an affair with her, then you need to forget about this and start working on your own issues. I can't stress this enough.* If you continue down this road, you will make his life and his work environment so intolerable that he will leave and you will end up with no husband at all.* And who will he run to? Maybe this same female co-worker. Then your fears will come true, but with the ironic twist that your jealousy caused it to happen.


*EDIT*: Yellowstar, I just read through some of your older threads. OMG, you are seriously in need of IC. You are insanely obsessed over this co-worker of your husband and constantly freaking out over the smallest things in life. You are so insecure that you once got upset simply because your husband said your daughter was tall??? I can hardly believe this is for real. *Your insecurity is totally off the charts.* Get help like yesterday!! Seriously. Please. I'm not saying your husband is perfect, but you are grasping at every straw you can to make certain that you remain miserable and upset. Unless you enjoy the drama, let go and allow yourself to enjoy life instead.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Going back to the first few threads you posted on here, I understand what got you upset. He was checking out her Facebook page, multiple times each day and was too chummy with her, for your liking. I get it. So, I can understand why this invitation from her would even come as a shock to you, since he had agreed to NOT be chummy, and stick to WORK ONLY. Again, I get it. And, I even get why you would be upset when you saw what you thought had been an email he sent to her, but turned out to be just a draft. Hopnestly, there was no reason to respond to the invitation, IMO, not even to attempt or think about responding. As others had responded in the early threads, "yellow flags" back then. But, you discussed boundaries, to which he agreed. So, yea, this invitation is odd, IMO. Odd to have an invitation from her, a year after this was all established.

So, sorry, but I disagree with the others. While there may be jealousy, and possibly PPD going on, there was a boundary in place, agreed upon that they would keep things strictly professional... OVER a year ago. So, the invitation makes no sense, and he wouldn't have needed to give any sort of explanation.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Going back to the first few threads you posted on here, I understand what got you upset. He was checking out her Facebook page, multiple times each day and was too chummy with her, for your liking.



She said he looked at her FB page "more" and was friendly with her at a children's party. That's a hell of a long way from finding lipstick on his collar!




> So, sorry, but I disagree with the others. While there may be jealousy, and possibly PPD going on, there was a boundary in place, agreed upon that they would keep things strictly professional... OVER a year ago. So, the invitation makes no sense, and he wouldn't have needed to give any sort of explanation.


It's a boundary that didn't need to be there in the first place, and it's clear he only agreed to it because she was flying off the handle. And how is the invitation not "professional" assuming she sent it to others at work? If you think Yellowstar is grounded in reality at all, then I recommend you read this thread here. To her credit, however, at least she realizes she has huge issues with self-esteem.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Theseus said:


> *EDIT*: Yellowstar, I just read through some of your older threads. OMG, you are seriously in need of IC. You are insanely obsessed over this co-worker of your husband and constantly freaking out over the smallest things in life. You are so insecure that you once got upset simply because your husband said your daughter was tall??? I can hardly believe this is for real. *Your insecurity is totally off the charts.* Get help like yesterday!! Seriously. Please. I'm not saying your husband is perfect, but you are grasping at every straw you can to make certain that you remain miserable and upset. Unless you enjoy the drama, let go and allow yourself to enjoy life instead.


I started to look into this before baby was born and husband and I were doing really well with our marriage, I was focused on being a better wife to him, trusting him, putting his happiness first etc. After having baby I feel like that effort was put on a temporary back burner. But you are correct that I need to work on these issues. It doesn't change the fact that he lied about things BUT I have to work on my trust, insecurities and being a better spouse. 



Maricha75 said:


> Going back to the first few threads you posted on here, I understand what got you upset. He was checking out her Facebook page, multiple times each day and was too chummy with her, for your liking. I get it. So, I can understand why this invitation from her would even come as a shock to you, since he had agreed to NOT be chummy, and stick to WORK ONLY. Again, I get it. And, I even get why you would be upset when you saw what you thought had been an email he sent to her, but turned out to be just a draft. Hopnestly, there was no reason to respond to the invitation, IMO, not even to attempt or think about responding. As others had responded in the early threads, "yellow flags" back then. But, you discussed boundaries, to which he agreed. So, yea, this invitation is odd, IMO. Odd to have an invitation from her, a year after this was all established.
> 
> So, sorry, but I disagree with the others. While there may be jealousy, and possibly PPD going on, there was a boundary in place, agreed upon that they would keep things strictly professional... OVER a year ago. So, the invitation makes no sense, and he wouldn't have needed to give any sort of explanation.



Thank you. This is why I am thankful he didn't send the email and it was a draft...but still wish he told me his thoughts first. It's not the matter of content but instead being open and sharing his thoughts...I have been working on my reaction but I guess today was not so great (Once I saw it was a draft and not sent I became MUCH calmer). Thanks for responding.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

You are on a very fast track to not only drive yourself crazy but drag him with you. I seriously worry about you and I am telling you this as someone who has spiraled out of control. I been told and it holds true, what we most fear, we can make happen. Please stop and think and think rationally. Don't jump into conclusions, hold your tongue. Stop chasing what is not there, stop trying to be ahead of him. If you don't trust him then let him go, this is no way to live. To his credit I don't really think you have found anything really to justify your behavior. 

Did you have a traumatic childhood? What's going on? Like I said, I been in a simular situation, I am not saying this to attack you, you need to get a grip or you will get worse. PM me of you like to, but please get help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> She said he looked at her FB page "more" and was friendly with her at a children's party. That's a hell of a long way from finding lipstick on his collar!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting... the two threads you linked were written a day apart, when she was.... 8? 9? months pregnant, and she's feeling as big as a house. 

And, I disagree with you, again, about whether a boundary needed to be in place or not. Were it my husband checking a female coworker's page a lot, I'd have a problem with that, too. And, no, invitations to a kid's birthday party are not something you would need to feel obligated to send to ALL coworkers.

Hey, maybe this is all hormonal, so I could be wrong. But I still think there was no reason to even contemplate sending an email and say "keep this between you and me".


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

By the way the email he never sent sounds like a person who is terrified of how you would react, someone who is walking on eggshells, and is thinking of all worst case scenarios. Damed if he does damed if he doesn't. By the way this is the fastest way to ruin trust. If he's afraid of you he will likely keep things from you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

mablenc said:


> You are on a very fast track to not only drive yourself crazy but drag him with you. I seriously worry about you and I am telling you this as someone who has spiraled out of control. I been told and it holds true, what we most fear, we can make happen. Please stop and think and think rationally. Don't jump into conclusions, hold your tongue. Stop chasing what is not there, stop trying to be ahead of him. If you don't trust him then let him go, this is no way to live. To his credit I don't really think you have found anything really to justify your behavior.
> 
> Did you have a traumatic childhood? What's going on? Like I said, I been in a simular situation, I am not saying this to attack you, you need to get a grip or you will get worse. PM me of you like to, but please get help!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, childhood (family stuff) was a bit screwed up. :-/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

This coworker is a friend or he would never have contemplated sending such an email. It tells me she knows what's going on, would understand and keep it quiet in the office. Otherwise,he would look look like a crazy fool and be the talk of the office. He trusts her to keep her mouth shut. 

Yellow star.... You do seem to be highly insecure, untrusting and difficult to please. I can see why your husband would be afraid to be open with you. It would bother me that this woman knew the difficulty she was is causing in my marriage bur in reality the problem seems to lie with you. The email doesn't seem to be to a lover or romantic interest but to a friend who knows and would understand. Yes, that person should be you and there is such a thing as a self fullfilling prophecy. If you don't pull yourself together you will push him away and possibly into the arms of another. I would say he he should change jobs to bring you some piece of mind but I have the feeling this would be an issue again with you.... Or something else will...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

mablenc said:


> By the way the email he never sent sounds like a person who is terrified of how you would react, someone who is walking on eggshells, and is thinking of all worst case scenarios. Damed if he does damed if he doesn't. By the way this is the fastest way to ruin trust. If he's afraid of you he will likely keep things from you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just wanted to add this is all true but I would add my husband was never this social vocal guy to begin with, I feel like some of this is his doing of being a bit of a 'nice guy'. Husband was always more a bit antisocial, quiet reserved etc. but was always talkative with me...but my reactions to him abouy stuff may have pushed him away with being honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

inarut said:


> This coworker is a friend or he would never have contemplated sending such an email. It tells me she knows what's going on, would understand and keep it quiet in the office. Otherwise,he would look look like a crazy fool and be the talk of the office. He trusts her to keep her mouth shut.
> 
> Yellow star.... You do seem to be highly insecure, untrusting and difficult to please. I can see why your husband would be afraid to be open with you. It would bother me that this woman knew the difficulty she was is causing in my marriage bur in reality the problem seems to lie with you. The email doesn't seem to be to a lover or romantic interest but to a friend who knows and would understand. Yes, that person should be you and there is such a thing as a self fullfilling prophecy. If you don't pull yourself together you will push him away and possibly into the arms of another. I would say he he should change jobs to bring you some piece of mind but I have the feeling this would be an issue again with you.... Or something else will...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1. Yes if I don't pull myself together I will create more of a problem than there is.

2. I don't think he views her as someone who will definitely keep things secret, he said he was just asking she would and hopes that she would if he sent it...but since he didn't send it, it is moot. He said he just really didnt want to jeapordize us.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How often does your husband talk about work stuff? How often does he share with you funny anecdotes of his day or random interesting conversations with people at work? Does he have any friends that he sees occasionally? Do you like them? Do they come over to your home every now and then? What about his family, does he get together with them very often? Do you like them?

Do you have any close female friends? How often are you in touch with them?


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> How often does your husband talk about work stuff? How often does he share with you funny anecdotes of his day or random interesting conversations with people at work? Does he have any friends that he sees occasionally? Do you like them? Do they come over to your home every now and then? What about his family, does he get together with them very often? Do you like them?
> 
> Do you have any close female friends? How often are you in touch with them?


Only talks about work when something interesting happens. He doesn't really share funny anecdotes or interesting conversations (he said they rarely happen or he is usually not involved in them but if he is he tells me---this is after a LOT of talking about him not sharing his day). He does not have any friends where we live, 99% of the people we socialize with are my friends or family. We see his family not often, they are not that far but he just chooses not to be close to them. We see them for kids b-day parties, holidays and a few random things here and there. Even before me he was just not that close with them. They are nice people, I like them, but they're not totally 'my kinda' people, if that makes sense. Just different kind of interests etc. I have friends, more female ones now than before but mostly because of kids. I have a few friends here otherwise not...no one I was good friends with stayed where we live. We definitely lack a good social circle. We have some friends and several parent friends (our kids are friends so we hang out w/their parents kinda thing).


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

YS, it sounds like he is one of these people that see's no problem being friendly with those of the opposite sex. You don't like it and neither do I. I don't go there myself because I don't want to create any insecurity for my wife. It's not hard though because my work is a sausage party. My wife does not return the favor in the least-if nothing else is going on and all the red flags end up being flukes.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

yellowstar said:


> Only talks about work when something interesting happens. He doesn't really share funny anecdotes or interesting conversations (he said they rarely happen or he is usually not involved in them but if he is he tells me---this is after a LOT of talking about him not sharing his day). He does not have any friends where we live, 99% of the people we socialize with are my friends or family. We see his family not often, they are not that far but he just chooses not to be close to them. We see them for kids b-day parties, holidays and a few random things here and there. Even before me he was just not that close with them. They are nice people, I like them, but they're not totally 'my kinda' people, if that makes sense. Just different kind of interests etc. I have friends, more female ones now than before but mostly because of kids. I have a few friends here otherwise not...no one I was good friends with stayed where we live. We definitely lack a good social circle. We have some friends and several parent friends (our kids are friends so we hang out w/their parents kinda thing).



I think he needs friends and I think you have set it up that he is afraid to venture into "male bonding" because of how you over react to things.

Clearly your husband will do whatever it takes to have a happy wife, but are you willing to do what it takes to have a happy husband?

Suggest he make plans with the fathers of your kids friends? Go to a game, go play ball or something... Let him out of the cage so he returns to you energized.

By now you have probably calmed and realized how you have misread the intentions of this woman from work. By doing this repeatedly, you set up an impossible, not to mention very unhealthy, life for your husband.

You need to apologize for over reacting then urge him to make some male friends!


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I think he needs friends and I think you have set it up that he is afraid to venture into "male bonding" because of how you over react to things.
> 
> Clearly your husband will do whatever it takes to have a happy wife, but are you willing to do what it takes to have a happy husband?
> 
> ...


I've apologized, told him about my faults and how badly I feel and I'm willing to work on myself etc. Husband said he is somewhat to blame too because he should tell me what he's thinking regardless. I plan on getting counseling at some point, being patient and hoping he'll come around in terms of being comfortable. I know it will take time.

And I'd love for him to have friends, especially male friends. Unfortunately he works with mostly females, all his male friends were from college and before, and none of them live here. Besides the fact that we have two little ones to take care of, he has little time and he tends to be super shy, like it takes him forever to warm up to people, so I don't know how he will make friends. I am the opposite, I talk to lots of people, socialize etc. 

I've tried suggesting hanging out with other friends' husbands or the dad's of our kids friends but it's not something you can force, know what I mean? I hope maybe next year he can go back to the gym at least, that would give him a bit of a social life outside (a little bit at least). He was friendly with some of the guys there and I know he liked it (martial arts gym). But again, I can't force this. He once told me some of the guys were planning to go do something ( can't remember) and he decided not to because he knew I would get annoyed. I felt HORRIBLE when he told me that. I said no you should do what you want to etc. I've told him several times after that to have fun, do what HE wants to etc. He said he will and it wasn't a big deal but I really hope he does do this...I don't want to hold him back in any way.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...honestly...reading his letter...I've been there. The poor guy's just trying to avoid drama with you. (If he keeps his mouth shut, the coworker will say hi, and you'll go nuts.) And you need to change that dynamic. 

...that said, I'm personally wary of opposite sex relationships and think that couples relationships tend to be safer. (Visited a friend I was trying to hire (excellent worker, cheap) ... realized that she'd invited me into her apartment to complain about her ex and get me drunk off brandy. Walked away carefully.) Talked to my wife about it - she wasn't precisely pleased - particularly after I hired her. But, eh, we kept the relationship professional. It also doesn't hurt to show a bit of jealousy sometimes. Being human is okay.

...long-term...if you flip out over co-workers...you'll eventually hurt your husband's employment prospects and drive him away...so...yes...therapy is a good idea. The reality is that the guy seems faithful. You might also want to work on needing to be right. You seem to be basically flat-out wrong - but somehow got an agreement out of him that he needs to change something too. That's a red flag for me.

Sounds like your husband is a bit shy. What does he like doing? After you figure that out...schedule a mutually agreeable time and stick to it. Something like...honey...I've joined a knitting group on Saturday afternoons. Please find something to do. For example, there's a class I think you might like at the gym. Then, whether or not he goes, go to your group.

--Argyle


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

He needs something outside of you. You are a blessing in his life, as he is in yours, but no spouse can fill ALL needs. Maybe 99% of them (lol) but not all. 

Does he play golf? Go bowling? Shooting? Any kind of outdoor stuff? Fishing, boating, etc etc. Find something he likes, then buy him a present so that he is encouraged, materially, to do it. 

And don't worry yourself to death. you need to live a long and healthy life to take care of him, the kids, the grandkids. If that requires therapy, do that. You have an obligation to your family.

Write to mablenc, I know she's a good woman, kind heart, and smart. And she offered to help.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> He is in a no win situation. If he told you he communicated he'd be in trouble. If you see her and she acts friendly he's in trouble.
> 
> He's trying to rectify a bad situation with the least amount of damage.


I don't think that at all . and so what if she was friendly when they went out ? right now it looks like he's covering up and that they are normally friendly .

why did he have to tell her anything ? 

but let's say for a moment they haven't been in contact . she was obviously fishing and she got what she wanted . what are the chances that she isn't going to respond ? 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

One more thing - people who choose dishonesty put themselves between a rock and a hard place. They aren't brave enough to deal with transparency and adult discussions so they lie and deceive. He has proven he can't be trusted regardless of his motivation. It was a bone-headed move from every angle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Trust is a two way street. Husband probably doesn't trust his wife enough to handle him telling her he is friends with a female coworker. Full transparency works when one goes to the spouse and he or she doesn't fly off the handle. That seems the case.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It was in his drafts folder and not the sent folder?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...from the existence of the letter, based on his prior experiences with her, husband doesn't trust the wife to not fly off the handle and possibly embarrass him if the friend accidentally runs into him when the husband and wife attend a different party in the area.

...now, personally, my approach would be:

'Okay, I know you have self-esteem issues. And, feeling insecure and jealous is a normal human reaction. Inter-office adultery isn't uncommon.' 
'But, remember when you caused a scene and had conniptions when my work friend said 'hi'? Well, I'm concerned that you'll cause a scene or have conniptions if she accidentally runs into us at the party we're visiting. Y'know, a lot of people have stopped inviting us because of your drama and this will eventually damage my career. And, I do need to go to parties like this to maintain friendships, et cetera.'

'I love you. And I'd like to figure out a solution that causes you as little anxiety as possible.'

'So, there's a few workable options here:
(a) You keep it under control if she speaks to us.
(b) I send her email explaining that you're insane and asking her to help me out by avoiding us.
(c) I go without you.'

Oh course, I'd also go with:

'The level of drama you create when I go out without you is large enough that it impedes my social life. This is a problem that we need to work on. Please take this complaint very, very seriously because, unless we can get this under control, I will divorce you.'

But, this really isn't a low-conflict approach. It is, however, an honest one. Long-term, avoiding conflict in marriages is problematic. Now, on the other hand, assuming that sort of prior history, it can be really tempting just to arrange life to avoid wife meltdowns. (partially out of selfishness, partially out of caring about the wife's suffering) It just isn't a good idea. Suffering teaches.

--Argyle


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I don't think that at all . and so what if she was friendly when they went out ? right now it looks like he's covering up and that they are normally friendly .
> 
> why did he have to tell her anything ?
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, he did NOT send the email, it was a draft and then deleted. He has no idea why she sent it except that she was being friendly to everyone. But he has no idea how she got our address because we moved earlier this year, maybe asked another coworker whom we've sent invites/xmas cards to etc. 

He didn't have to tell her anything, he told me he initially wrote it because he was so worried it was going to cause a fight that would last for days. So he wrote it, thought about how I told him "I can deal with anything but deceit, please don't lie". He told me he didn't want to hurt me in anyway and so if she said something or talked to us, let it be and him and I could talk about things later. I respect that he did this! 



clipclop2 said:


> One more thing - people who choose dishonesty put themselves between a rock and a hard place. They aren't brave enough to deal with transparency and adult discussions so they lie and deceive. He has proven he can't be trusted regardless of his motivation. It was a bone-headed move from every angle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. We've talked about this and we both definitely agree. We both contributed to this situation. 



richie33 said:


> Trust is a two way street. Husband probably doesn't trust his wife enough to handle him telling her he is friends with a female coworker. Full transparency works when one goes to the spouse and he or she doesn't fly off the handle. That seems the case.


Definitely true and also have talked about this and agree. It's like a bad cycle, I flip out, he avoids/deceives--I find out and my fear is true, I flip out and the cycle continues. We are definitely aware of this and are talking about improving ourselves. I told him I take ownership of all the times I've flipped out and basically created most of this situation and that I want to change. 



clipclop2 said:


> It was in his drafts folder and not the sent folder?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes a draft he deleted. He said he wrote it, worrying about my reaction in case we ran into them (we were where the party was going to be...and another kid's party in the earlier time slot). He thought about it and realized deceiving me would be worse than anything else, and deleted it. 



argyle said:


> ...from the existence of the letter, based on his prior experiences with her, husband doesn't trust the wife to not fly off the handle and possibly embarrass him if the friend accidentally runs into him when the husband and wife attend a different party in the area.
> 
> ...now, personally, my approach would be:
> 
> ...


Yes all true (except I've never made a spectacle of this, this has always been a private argument. Only once were we all in the same place (at a party) since the Facebook incident (prior posts) and I said nothing. This party was also when he pretended to not talk to her at all and she was talking to him like normal--and I realized he was hiding being just friendly. Again, if he had been honest with me it wouldn't have created a big fight like it did...but this is in the past).

Like I said above, I have to work on my insecurities, jealousy, temper and reactions. I think when I do this he will trust me again to share more and therefore I will trust him. The cycle again BUT in a positive direction. 

Thank you all for your help, honestly, sometimes having this perspective keeps me calm and rational


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Are you sure he deleted it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Are you sure he deleted it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, it was in the deleted folder and never sent. It also had no recipient, like he wrote it with no name in the recipient part, it was blank. It definitely was like a blow to the stomach though when the subject said, please read delete and don't reply. 

I initially thought he sent it and was going to flip out. I was still upset but then when I realized he didnt and we talked, I was still very upset that he considered it BUT when he said "Doesn't the fact that I never sent it say something? I thought about it but realized lying to you is wrong, you said you could handle anything else but deceit so I don't want to hurt you". He said he realizes why I'm upset (because it was secretive) and wishes he DID come to tell me what was on his mind. When I listened to all this and realized he didn't send it, it made me think I can't believe he is that frightened of my reaction, I need to work on me. He also pointed out that our counselor in the past mentioned typing out an email but not sending it (or sending it to ourselves) as a way of getting out anger/frustration etc and then calmly talking to each other versus flipping out. 

Doesn't make it right that he was being deceitful (earlier in the day I said something about the coworker's party being today, same place as where we were going but later...and he said he didn't realize it was today/same place...so he lied about that). I see why he did it, he wanted to avoid the whole thing.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...to be fair...both people in a marriage usually have something they can work on - there is one thing I can see that your husband could do that would probably be healthier...long term.

...my understanding is that whenever this coworker comes up...there's the potential for some sort of drama or argument. And that your husband is frightened of the drama either because: 
(a) he doesn't know how to handle it 
(b) he doesn't want to hurt you
(c) it takes too much time and effort

The thing is that, long-term, dodging these issues creates problems.* So, it might be better if, eg, he'd responded with:

'Okay, I appreciate that you're insecure. Yes. It will be the same place and we'll probably run into them. That's within the rules we've agreed to regarding interactions. Do you disagree? I will discuss this with you for up to 30 seconds. If you have a problem with this, talk to your therapist.'

Then, after you run over the time limit.
'We're done.'
Then, after you chase after him screaming and yelling and sobbing.
'Okay, I'll go alone. Bye. Try calling your therapist.'
Then, after you start thrashing and clutching at him...
'Okay. That's a 5150, wait a moment for the police. I'll call your cell after you're booked.'

(not that you necessarily would ignore the time limit, just that I've found that having set responses to unpleasant behavior helped with my wife.)

--Argyle
*The thing is that abusive/unpleasant behavior - like inflicting continual emotionally charged conversations filled with landmines - nearly always results in avoidant behavior - so avoiding your drama is perfectly rational and normal on his part, and actually better than some alternative responses. The reality is that, based on your past behavior, mild dishonesty is something you should expect. It isn't a correct choice, just a normal, rational response and not something you should chide him over. 

The problem is that - by tolerating this behavior - he's encouraging it - which isn't healthy for you. He's also doing things like agreeing that he did something wrong when you're pretty clearly mostly at fault. That also isn't healthy. That said, if you'd prefer honesty to avoidance, he should respect that wish.

However, if he started along that path - the first step would almost certainly be an increase in his stress level and a decrease in your happiness.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

argyle said:


> ...to be fair...both people in a marriage usually have something they can work on - there is one thing I can see that your husband could do that would probably be healthier...long term.
> 
> ...my understanding is that whenever this coworker comes up...there's the potential for some sort of drama or argument. And that your husband is frightened of the drama either because:
> (a) he doesn't know how to handle it
> ...



Yep I agree with all of this. Luckily we have been talking about this, we both know that him being honest will be possibly more unpleasant in the short term but I will respect him more in the long term. And I will work harder on my behavior, reactions, issues etc and he respects that as well. We are a work in progress but I am happy to work on myself for him and me...for us.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...the last bit is...facing this sort of problem is hard and takes immense courage and effort. And is, by people who choose to take the effort, generally doable and worthwhile. The hardest part for us was accepting that yes, I will walk away and abandon her when she behaves badly.

...I will say...planning ahead helps too. People mess up in the heat of the moment - so planning for those moments helps.

Kudos and best wishes 

--Argyle


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