# An incredible misunderstanding



## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

One night my gf and I met with one of my former co-workers (a female) for a drink and a visit at a casino. My friend was making a comment on how great it is to be in a passionate relationship. To that I said it sure is. She then said "you know it, baby." I also responded by saying, "you know it, baby."

My gf only heard the two statements where my friend and I used the word "baby" and she has since decided we each were calling each other "baby" I have tried to make my gf understand that term was only used as a point of emphasis and not as a term of endearment. I told her that in years past when i would watch sports with my guy friends someone would say something like, "yeah, we're going to the Superbowl." And I would respond with, "you know it, baby!" Again as a point of emphasis. Quite frankly you could replace the word baby with dude, man, etc and achieve the same meaning of the sentence.

She however refuses this explanation and continues to hold against me her idea that I was inappropriate to call my friend "baby."

To me this has been a style of talking sort of like slang or whatever. I have done this for many years. But i have assured my gf that because she doesn't like it hat I will no longer talk that way. Even though it really is harmless and again only used as a point of emphasis.

My question is what do you guys think about this situation? Also please let me know what else can I do to assure her I was not being flirtatious or inappropriate and more importantly to understand the actual context of the term "baby" in this instance?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Other than apologizing for offending her, I'm not sure how else this can be rectified. That part is up to her.

You don't see it as a big deal, neither do I, but I'm not your gf. She's very sensitive IMO.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> One night my gf and I met with one of my former co-workers (a female) for a drink and a visit at a casino. My friend was making a comment on how great it is to be in a passionate relationship. To that I said it sure is. She then said "you know it, baby." I also responded by saying, "you know it, baby."
> 
> My gf only heard the two statements where my friend and I used the word "baby" and she has since decided we each were calling each other "baby" I have tried to make my gf understand that term was only used as a point of emphasis and not as a term of endearment. I told her that in years past when i would watch sports with my guy friends someone would say something like, "yeah, we're going to the Superbowl." And I would respond with, "you know it, baby!" Again as a point of emphasis. Quite frankly you could replace the word baby with dude, man, etc and achieve the same meaning of the sentence.
> 
> ...


OMG it's a good thing my husband doesn't feel the way your GF does. I call people "hon," "baby," "darlin'" and "sexy" all the time. But I don't call anyone else "my king" or "my treasure." That's reserved just for him.

I have to disagree with the response above, though. I would *NOT* apologize over it. She needs to thicken her skin and learn how to "get it" or you'll be setting up the groundwork for many more problems like this in the future. If you apologize, you're admitting that she's got a valid point. Her point is NOT valid. Just don't go there.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> My question is what do you guys think about this situation? Also please let me know what else can I do to assure her I was not being flirtatious or inappropriate and more importantly to understand the actual context of the term "baby" in this instance?


You've already acknowledged her feelings. 

Now it's time to tell her that she either shapes up or gets a boot in the rear end.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> OMG it's a good thing my husband doesn't feel the way your GF does. I call people "hon," "baby," "darlin'" and "sexy" all the time. But I don't call anyone else "my king" or "my treasure." That's reserved just for him.
> 
> I have to disagree with the response above, though. I would *NOT* apologize over it. She needs to thicken her skin and learn how to "get it" or you'll be setting up the groundwork for many more problems like this in the future. If you apologize, you're admitting that she's got a valid point. Her point is NOT valid. Just don't go there.


I'm thinking by the tone of his post, he already did apologize. 

OP if you haven't, don't. An I'm sorry you feel that way could suffice, but you don't owe her much more than that.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Well, the same woman, post in my Boyfriend's FB not too long ago:

" think of you often, come and visit me " 
And he tells me, he cannot control what other people post on FB. to get over it.

Star2916, (the crazy girlfriend.)


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

star2916 said:


> Well, the same woman, post in my Boyfriend's FB not too long ago:
> 
> " think of you often, come and visit me "
> And he tells me, he cannot control what other people post on FB. to get over it.
> ...


Seems like a pissing match going on. 
My experience is that it doesn't matter who is right and whois wrong, if you're not feeling good together, move on. You can find someone who won't go posting on the internet trying to show how right he is, by leaving out the background of his conversant. What a hassle. My exH used to do this all the time. Trying not to be busted on one conversation or email, when it was the bigger pattern that revealed that he was in fact, simul-cheating. And yes, I was called overly sensitive, controlling, taking things out of context. My advice, you can't make Mr. Wrong, Right, even when he is ummmm, technically "Right."

If what you say is true and you two were meeting up with this woman on his and her initiative, consider that he has the makings of an emotional abuser, and make a clean break while you can. Next thing you know, he will be turning to her because you are "such an oversensitive, jealous, controlling, nitpicking 'b*tch'" and he will make up some story about how you're withholding from him out of spite, etc. So the other woman will feel sorry for him. 

Of course, all this may not be the case, but honestly, this is such a trivial issue that it could have been resolved easily between two people with a healthy intimate relationship, without turning to strangers for validation and righteousness.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Trailwalker:

As a mature, well balanced individual, I would have to ask, why are you with this woman? Obviously, you have so many problems with her. 
It must be you are a bit sadistic with yourself or there are maybe, some truth in the way she is bringing these kind of boundaries problems to your attention?


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

star2916 said:


> Well, the same woman, post in my Boyfriend's FB not too long ago:
> 
> " think of you often, come and visit me "
> And he tells me, he cannot control what other people post on FB. to get over it.
> ...


Yes true, however, like it has been explained countless times before, she has invited BOTH of us to come visit. And where she says also think of "you" the word can be used as singular or plural. And in this case I take it to mean plural, you and me, to come visit. Because she OBVIOUSLY knows we were a couple. She was not inviting me ALONE for a visit..... 

But more importantly, this person whom lives 3 thousand miles away, and whom I will likely never see again, why would she be a threat to you and our relationship? She has met you, likes you and is a respectful person. 

You've taken this the WRONG way.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

there are so many threads going on between the two of you.Is there ANY way they can be combined into ONE for each of you?

Based on what I've read,it's time to get some serious counseling or call it quits.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

You are totally correct Homemaker. Thank you for seeing my point. He just post what his version is. I am done with him and I am done with the whole BS.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Pissing match indeed.

If one person in the relationship feels like they have to POLICE the other, then the onus is on the them to decide if it's worth it or not.

You can't ... CAN'T change another person. If he makes you crazy why would you want to be in such a relationship? You don't agree on this issue. Either you accept the relationship as it is or get out. You're not married for cripes sake.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

star2916 said:


> You are totally correct Homemaker. Thank you for seeing my point. He just post what his version is. I am done with him and I am done with the whole BS.


Ultimately, even if you are sensitive, there are people in the world who will understand and create a nurturing environment. If this third person is truly a friend, appropriate boundaries would have been set up to protect the cherished and primary intimate relationship. With the understanding that feelings are not right or wrong, they are feelings, and the relationship comes before the should would could. First protect the relationship, doing what needs to be done, and then work within that relationship to establish trust to accommodate third-person friends of opposite sex, with appropriate boundaries that are understood and respected by all involved, including the third party. 

As a single woman, I have a great respect for couples, and leave them to themselves unless specifically friends with the woman half, or invited by her. I would never extend an invite to just the male, it would always be to the woman, regardless of whom I knew first. So your expectations are not unreasonable, there are quite a few people who think about these things along the same lines as you, and avoid these kinds of upsets to the primary relationship, which is one you want to have for the rest of your life, and deserves care-giving if it's to survive.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Star, is there another reason you don't trust your guy? 

Even with that FB post, if he doesn't hide stuff from you and includes you, I'd call that something to celebrate! 

There's a woman we see each week who is drooling over my husband. She won't look me in the eye when she talks to me, but I catch her watching him constantly and she has NO problem looking him in the eye when they talk about anything. He casually asked me one day if she might be so-and-so who he went to high school with (and then admitted he'd had a crush on her.) It drives me crazy to know that she's the kind of woman that would be attractive to him, AND to know that she's hot for him! 

But if I started making him feel bad for talking to her, such as when he said "Any guy would like a woman who owns (the collector car she owns)" it would make ME look like a demanding, insecure person. It would NOT make him feel like I'm his biggest cheerleader and fan, which is the role I want to play in his life. 

So instead, I make sure that I'm with him whenever they're in the same place, and that there is never any doubt in his mind that I'm the one who loves and takes great care of him. I feel very insecure about the whole thing, but there is no way in HELL I will show it if I want to keep my guy.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Ultimately, even if you are sensitive, there are people in the world who will understand and create a nurturing environment. If this third person is truly a friend, appropriate boundaries would have been set up to protect the cherished and primary intimate relationship. With the understanding that feelings are not right or wrong, they are feelings, and the relationship comes before the should would could. First protect the relationship, doing what needs to be done, and then work within that relationship to establish trust to accommodate third-person friends of opposite sex, with appropriate boundaries that are understood and respected by all involved, including the third party.
> 
> As a single woman, I have a great respect for couples, and leave them to themselves unless specifically friends with the woman half, or invited by her. I would never extend an invite to just the male, it would always be to the woman, regardless of whom I knew first. So your expectations are not unreasonable, there are quite a few people who think about these things along the same lines as you, and avoid these kinds of upsets to the primary relationship, which is one you want to have for the rest of your life, and deserves care-giving if it's to survive.


Totally agree. I've seen this little game many times, the whole just a friend, making a big deal out of nothing, can't control what they do, etc. You're either dealing with someone that is cheating and gaslighting you, or he just likes the attention. The rapport that exists between them exists because he actively participates in it and encourages it, and the fact that you've basically been told to suck it up tells me you are the third wheel. Let him play his games with someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Star, is there another reason you don't trust your guy?
> 
> Even with that FB post, if he doesn't hide stuff from you and includes you, I'd call that something to celebrate!
> 
> ...


Unfortunate your guy can't set appropriate boundaries for himself, such that you don't have to be there to watch them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## torani (May 6, 2013)

trailwalker said:


> To me this has been a style of talking sort of like slang or whatever. I have done this for many years. But i have assured my gf that because she doesn't like it hat I will no longer talk that way. Even though it really is harmless and again only used as a point of emphasis.
> 
> My question is what do you guys think about this situation? Also please let me know what else can I do to assure her I was not being flirtatious or inappropriate and more importantly to understand the actual context of the term "baby" in this instance?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It does sound like she is a bit insecure.... I also use this type of slang, I call people kid, hon, babe, love etc... I got that from my mom... she does it... =) 

I understand the need for your gf to get some thicker skin, however, she doesn't have it and I don't think you'll be able to EVER explain your side enough to where she will agree with you... You cant force her to have thicker skin, It IS up to her now to fix her insecurities.

"A man convinced against his will, is of that opinion still..."

How thoughtful of you though to offer to not do this anymore to make her feel more comfortable... Your meeting her needs by doing this... even if they come from insecurities...

I would just let her have her opinion and not argue anymore about it. If she wants to argue or bring it up, just find a kind way to tell her that its been discussed resolved and there is no need to re-hash it over and over again.

You have already done what you can to accommodate her...


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

From her thread.....clearly he has the intention to deceive the ex-wife's new husband, so it's not a big leap to think he would deceive her. 

"Prior to that, I found pictures of his Ex wife on my computer, because he was helping her to develop a website. , he was married to her for 12 years, and he had told me that her current husband has told her not to have any contact with him , but he offered a solution, : just change my name... so he doesn't know you are talking to me. So far, they still talk to each other every 2 weeks, at least. "


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> Yes true, however, like it has been explained countless times before, she has invited BOTH of us to come visit. And where she says also think of "you" the word can be used as singular or plural. And in this case I take it to mean plural, you and me, to come visit. Because she OBVIOUSLY knows we were a couple. She was not inviting me ALONE for a visit.....
> 
> But more importantly, this person whom lives 3 thousand miles away, and whom I will likely never see again, why would she be a threat to you and our relationship? She has met you, likes you and is a respectful person.
> 
> You've taken this the WRONG way.


Well now we have a pattern of playing the double-meaning game, which is so much fun because we get to tease our girlfriend and then blame her for it at the same time. 

Immaturity.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

I trusted him since day one. That is just the way I am. I do not have a hidden agenda, I worked my issues from my last relationship of ten years for 5 years. I was single, happy and baggage all ironed and under key. 

I become friends with him on FB but I never got any of his notifications. It was my daughter( in her 30's) that brought to my attention the fact that these women, not just this one, were being a bit "too intrusive, flirty" with him. For me to have a look at his page. 

He had a collection of females friends in there which included his previous girlfriend just two month prior me, and coworkers, They were in the 95%, all females. That is not a problem to me per see, but found a little bit of a bad taste, specially when he has told me, that prior to meeting me, he had got rid of all the women in his past and he was looking for a committed relationship with one women only.

It turned out, two of these women in his FB were one and ex and another, he has meet on match.com before meeting me, but he kept communicating with her and for the posts I could see, they were still texting and talking to each other on the telephone. I did tell him them I found that unappropriated. The ex girlfriend had pictures of her FB in his house, and he has pictures of then together embracing. 
He also was following a girl that he knew from High school, very pretty and he will talk to her, for what it seems long time. I found that in my computer history. 
He also kept pictures of his ex wife on my computer because he was helping her to create a Web-site and she send him three pictures of her, to see which one he liked best. Found that on my computer under a folder.
All that is going on in our first 7 months of committed dating ( ha)

When he travels, he goes together in groups with friends to have dinner and have drinks and he gets back to the Hotel room very late, sometimes after mid night. And these days, about 4 times per year, he only calls me for a couple of minutes, at the most, because he has to go and get on the bus and I only hear how boring the meeting day was. He will drink with friends until 12 or 1 am. These ladies, which they are coworkers call him often, he said it is about work. They call him to vent, sometimes on a Sunday evening, when he is with me. 

One of the most intrusive female worker ( inappropriate comments on FB) place a picture of him, her, and another two coworkers behind them, where she has her arm around his neck, her face close to his, and her body touching his. ( I have that picture) She posted it as her cover picture on FB. She kept that picture there for at least 4 months. 

She made comments on a picture of us when the above lady, the one that was called "baby" in front of me came to visit, saying: " ARRRRG ! I am jealous 10000000 , I want to be there .... I guess I am going to have to come and visit you! We only live once ". My boyfriend's responded .... "you know it girl" She did not in any moment say, I want to go party with both you and Star ... 

Finally, I had it . So I told him, this behavior in public, was totally unappropriated. Even my daughter send him an e mail, told him to take care of this "contest" he had going on. 

Well, he decided after continuous arguments proclaiming, the innocence of these comments, the innocence of that picture, etc, to remove her from FB. He told her, not to worry about it, it was not her problem. I asked him if she ever have contact with her, he told me on my face, no. There's nothing of that going on. When I have already saw on his phone a text from her the day before. 

After that incident I was not able to see any of his FB comments from anyone because he has restricted me. He had finally confessed to that about two moths ago, were he did told me what I have been knowing all along.

So yes, some other things like the above post it might look like I am some kind of crazy woman, but I do not think so. 

I believe people that are into a committed relationship guard their love and make sure they do not put in jeopardy what they have. 

The worst part of it, he doesn't think what was going on is anything I should have worried about it. He thinks I do not have the right to feel angry about it. He doesn't find these comments/ pictures unappropriated at all. 
I just take the whole picture that has been presented to me during the beginning, middle and end of the relationship out of context.

I may have been guilty of overreacting a little, but I feel my trust issues are totally justified. 

I find when we talked, discuss, argue, the whole point is not the problem but to make sure I know he is right and I am totally wrong and that I MUST change my way of thinking ....

There's more, and oh I will not get into it. 

He doesn't want to break up, I don't either, but is there any light for hope at the end of this tunnel ?

Thank you for listening.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> He doesn't want to break up, I don't either, but is there any light for hope at the end of this tunnel ?


Nope.

You both like the merry go round.

Nothing to see here IMO. As you were.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Aunt Ava said:


> From her thread.....clearly he has the intention to deceive the ex-wife's new husband, so it's not a big leap to think he would deceive her.
> 
> "Prior to that, I found pictures of his Ex wife on my computer, because he was helping her to develop a website. , he was married to her for 12 years, and he had told me that her current husband has told her not to have any contact with him , but he offered a solution, : just change my name... so he doesn't know you are talking to me. So far, they still talk to each other every 2 weeks, at least. "


Does anyone realize that you usually need photos to create a website? That's why they were there.... Not to be stared at for hours on end whimsically wishing for the past. Goodness. And before I made the website I told "STAR" all about this...! 
Regarding the "we still talk every 2 weeks at least" comment. Absolutely NOT true, unreal how the facts and truth gets so distorted when someone cannot control their emotions.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

"Does anyone realize that you usually need photos to create a website? That's why they were there.... Not to be stared at for hours on end whimsically wishing for the past. Goodness. And before I made the website I told "STAR" all about this...!
Regarding the "we still talk every 2 weeks at least" comment. Absolutely NOT true, unreal how the facts and truth gets so distorted when someone cannot control their emotions." 


Yes, I knew about you were constructing a website for her, but I didn't know you were doing it "on my time" and about the pictures, I found them on my computer. You did not tell me about it, and I certainly do not know you need pictures to create a website.

Different result ....


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

star2916 said:


> "Does anyone realize that you usually need photos to create a website? That's why they were there.... Not to be stared at for hours on end whimsically wishing for the past. Goodness. And before I made the website I told "STAR" all about this...!
> Regarding the "we still talk every 2 weeks at least" comment. Absolutely NOT true, unreal how the facts and truth gets so distorted when someone cannot control their emotions."
> 
> 
> ...


No, you actually did know about it because I told you that unless I do this on your computer I'd have to go all the way back home and I wanted to spend the wknd with you. It would take just a few hours on your pc instead of half the day driving back and forth. I also remember showing you the site as it progressed. Keep in mind this happened in december of 2010...! I told you about it then, and also when you blew up awhile later and this one has been dragged out ever since... 
Good grief...


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

In conclusion, what I see personally, in all these threats he has posted, the common denominator is "his point of view" it's the only consideration given here by him. 

Not one time he has been gentle with me and maybe recognize , since he knows me, that I may have been driving to conclusions by the actions that he has allowed by others.

I fell very sad to see, when he has the opportunity of being fair with me and to me, he again chooses to make it all about him and or the particular person in that particular threat. I

He want for us to work this out. I do too. But the truth is, I do not think he knows how important to me these events has been and had hurt me. 
It is not about jealousy, it is about patterns and feeling safe. And he again trows me under the bus, in front of many strangers making me the neurotic, crazy person that I appear to be. And that is OK, because, you guys do not know me, but it is not OK the way is being done by him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If its not ok for you to be treated this way, then why do you continue to allow it? You are part of the problem star and you should know better. 

This is some stupid stuff to be arguing about at your age. Don't you think?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

star2916 said:


> And he again trows me under the bus, in front of many strangers making me the neurotic, crazy person that I appear to be. And that is OK, because, you guys do not know me, but it is not OK the way is being done by him.


Don't worry....you're not alone in looking neurotic and crazy in this relationship! Neither of you are painting yourselves or each other in a flattering light.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

There are some serious boundary and respect issues.

The two of you need to come to agreement on these items or part ways.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

star2916 said:


> In conclusion, what I see personally, in all these threats he has posted, the common denominator is "his point of view" it's the only consideration given here by him.
> 
> Not one time he has been gentle with me and maybe recognize , since he knows me, that I may have been driving to conclusions by the actions that he has allowed by others.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be somewhat appropriate for you to just recognize that i did NOT call her "baby" Why is that so hard to understand. This is SO SIMPLE for goodness sake. Several women on here already mentioned they talk in the same fashion. Do you understand this...?????????????


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> Wouldn't it be somewhat appropriate for you to just recognize that i did NOT call her "baby" Why is that so hard to understand. This is SO SIMPLE for goodness sake. Several women on here already mentioned they talk in the same fashion. Do you understand this...?????????????


Clearly it's NOT just about calling a woman baby. It's about the lack of boundaries all over the place.

For pete's sake, the two of you need to sit down and AGREE to what is and is not acceptable in the relationship.

If you can't, then there is no relationship to be saved.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Star - drop this guy, he is not worth the trouble. Many men befriend women who they find sexually attractive. Sounds like she thinks its more than a friendship and he knows it. He is using this friend to keep you off balance. A common ploy of an insecure man. He sounds insensitive but not too stupid, no? He knows that there is an attraction and he playing it up. 

Anyway, if you keep seeing him, you can plan on this or some other woman being waved in your face through out the relationship. If you were important enough to him, he would drop the friend. Afterall, she is far away so it wouod be easy. He is not that in to you. 

Take this as a life lesson. If a man does not regard your feelings as important then you can be sure he does not value much else about you. Get rid of him. While you are at it, Tell him to get with his friend, they sound perfect for each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Star, is there another reason you don't trust your guy?
> 
> Even with that FB post, if he doesn't hide stuff from you and includes you, I'd call that something to celebrate!
> 
> ...


It's great that you're comfortable adjusting to have what you want, ultimately. But not everyone is like that. Some really need the process of the relationship to be almost 100% of the relationship, not the outcome of whether the guy is truly faithful or not. It's how it feels, ultimately. Adapting and swallowing one's honest feelings and dismissing them is not always the healthy thing to do, even if the guy is faithful, it's still an issue for the relationship, that doesn't seem like it will be resolved.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Star - drop this guy, he is not worth the trouble. Many men befriend women who they find sexually attractive. Sounds like she thinks its more than a friendship and he knows it. He is using this friend to keep you off balance. A common ploy of an insecure man. He sounds insensitive but not too stupid, no? He knows that there is an attraction and he playing it up.
> 
> Anyway, if you keep seeing him, you can plan on this or some other woman being waved in your face through out the relationship. If you were important enough to him, he would drop the friend. Afterall, she is far away so it wouod be easy. He is not that in to you.
> 
> ...



And here is a prime example where a little more clarity is required. It may prove helpful to your and future posts on this topic...

This friend of mine with whom we both used the expression "baby" is and always has been just a friend. She is from the south as am I; many folks talk that way. It was and is meaningless and harmless. If I were going to be involved with her it would have happened many years ago prior to meeting STAR while we were both single. We worked for the same company and met during training class. That's how we became friends. She lives over 3000 miles away and is married. But most importantly and the thing here that gets totally lost is that I am not the type of person who would ever cheat or even play games with people's minds. And to your earlier, completely ignorant and incorrect assumption, I do not befriend women just because they are attractive. Has anyone heard of being friends just for the sake of being friendly? Good grief. Not everything is sexually based.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Star, is there another reason you don't trust your guy?
> 
> Even with that FB post, if he doesn't hide stuff from you and includes you, I'd call that something to celebrate!
> 
> ...


It's a matter of respect of our partner's wishes and feelings. I have seen some inappropriate behavior by various women towards my husband. 

I voice what I am not comfortable with and he defers to that out of respect. I do the same for him.

I love and respect my husband to the point that I don't want him to be uncomfortable and he feels the same.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> To me this has been a style of talking sort of like slang or whatever. I have done this for many years. But i have assured my gf that because she doesn't like it hat I will no longer talk that way. Even though it really is harmless and again only used as a point of emphasis.


You should never have agreed to stop using it. Lots of people use the word "baby" as a generic, impersonal term, or like you stated, point of emphasis. I think you were absolutely right to clarify, but absolutely wrong to promise to stop using the term just because she didn't understand. You've been using that term, in that context, without any issue for years. Kowtowing to your insecure, irrational girlfriend isn't likely to do you any favors in the long run. What happens next time she's irrational about something minor, and insignificant? She'll expect you to relent and grovel again.

This is beyond a gender/sex issue. When somebody is irrational the last thing you need to do is feed that irrationality.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

"And here is a prime example where a little more clarity is required. It may prove helpful to your and future posts on this topic...

This friend of mine with whom we both used the expression "baby" is and always has been just a friend. She is from the south as am I; many folks talk that way. It was and is meaningless and harmless. If I were going to be involved with her it would have happened many years ago prior to meeting STAR while we were both single. We worked for the same company and met during training class. That's how we became friends. She lives over 3000 miles away and is married. But most importantly and the thing here that gets totally lost is that I am not the type of person who would ever cheat or even play games with people's minds. And to your earlier, completely ignorant and incorrect assumption, I do not befriend women just because they are attractive. Has anyone heard of being friends just for the sake of being friendly? Good grief. Not everything is sexually based."


I have to respond to this post, even so, he asked me earlier to stop this insanity and to stop posting, but obviously it only applies to me.

This Women form the South is the same woman that posted in his FB about two months ago : "Think of you often, come and visit. " 

Now, I am from Europe and taught myself english without going to school, but this female, knows english and she purposely told him, "think of you often, come and visit" , no, "think of you guys often and please come and visit." Maybe I am a little bit paranoid? , but if you read my other posts and see what has been going on during our relationship, maybe it would clarify more my behavior. 

I did never accused him of having an affair with her. I told him what kind of comment was that about.... it did not feel right.

Also, the same woman, came to visit and we met , where the "baby" conversation played around and when we were having dinner, he, shared food from his plate to her ..... ????? also, a guy next to me at the bar we were seating asked where I was from and what I did for a living, which I responded, a two minutes conversation, and she and him videotaped my "innuendo" with him .... WTF ???? up to this day I do not get this .... Is this what High school looks like here? I do not have any intentions of insulting anyone, but since I was not here at that time in my life, I wonder .... that is why I am confused, it this normal behavior or it is a cultural one ?


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

I've read all the threads between you too. I do think you both care about each other quite a lot...but you both care more about being right - things being your way, your rules - than each other.

You both just have completely different approaches to relationships...different "rules." A good, healthy relationship could exist with his rules...or hers...but they don't mesh well together. 

You two don't mesh well together. You two are simply incompatible. 

You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole...and you're doing so in a violent, mashing way...so the whole lot is being destroyed.

You two are not compatible. Love alone doesn't make a relationship work. Again, you two are _not _compatible. And you can go on...continuing to use a sledge hammer to mash that square peg into that round hole...or you can STOP. And realize you just don't fit.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lawd, I skimmed through the rest of this thread.

This is just too Jerry Springer for me.

Peace!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SouthernMiss said:


> I've read all the threads between you too. I do think you both care about each other quite a lot...but you both care more about being right - things being your way, your rules - than each other.
> 
> You both just have completely different approaches to relationships...different "rules." A good, healthy relationship could exist with his rules...or hers...but they don't mesh well together.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

trailwalker said:


> This friend of mine with whom we both used the expression "baby" is and always has been just a friend.


How long have you known this woman?



trailwalker said:


> She is from the south as am I; many folks talk that way. It was and is meaningless and harmless. If I were going to be involved with her it would have happen


There might be a language issue going on here. American English is not Star's native language. Thus she is not familiar with many saying that people from different parts of the country use. She might have had, and continue to have a problem with interpeting the entire expression as you do and many others do. 

Language is an odd thing. When a person is used to an expression, they take the expression as one item. When a person i snot used to an expression, the person will take the expression word by word. 

Star heard you call a woman 'baby'. Instead of going on and on with your point of view, you'd get a lot further if you simply acknowledge that it makes a lot of sense that she would misinterpret that was said and meant. Sometimes what a person wants is for their truth to be acknowledged.

And then Star, how about you acknowledge that you did not understand the express and mistook it for meaning that he was calling her 'baby'.

That's not hard is it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

star2916 said:


> Is this what High school looks like here? I do not have any intentions of insulting anyone, but since I was not here at that time in my life, I wonder .... that is why I am confused, it this normal behavior or it is a cultural one ?


When a person uses "high school" to describe smeone's behavior they mean that the person is being immature. 

When a person uses "Junior high" or "Middle School" they mean VERY immature, like a 12 year old.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> How long have you known this woman?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this reply. It truly describes what is going on. With this and MANY other things. I have tried explaining this as well to no avail, it is only met with contempt and hardheadedness as to her idea that there is only ONE way of interpretation. Unfortunately yes, it is VERY hard to get to that simple point.....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

trailwalker said:


> Thanks for this reply. It truly describes what is going on. With this and MANY other things. I have tried explaining this as well to no avail, it is only met with contempt and hardheadedness as to her idea that there is only ONE way of interpretation. Unfortunately yes, it is VERY hard to get to that simple point.....


Yes there seems to be a language issue going on. English is not my first language either. I have had some of the same issues so I get it.

But I am picking up that both of you have issues.

From what I read that Star wrote about your niece, her jealousy about your niece is unreasonable. You would have to give up connection with just about every female relative if you married star. This is ridiculous.

But you are also not reasonable. You are supposedly in a committed relationship with Star for 2.5 years. But you maintain close friendships with your ex and ex-girlfriends. You keep the women you have met online around. This looks like you are keeping them as backup just in case. This is what players do. It’s not what a man who is truly committed to a woman does.

What I am seeing is that Star is trying to verbalize that there are some things that bother her… some things that she has every right to be bothered by. For example about the ex wife and the ex-girlfriends. 

So she tries to tell you about it and you do a song and dance telling her that they are only friends, that she’s wrong, yada yada. So then she keeps pointing out things like “baby” and other things that are not the real problem. She does this because she has become hyper sensitive. 

So now you have all kinds of fodder for your game. She can say that she does not like you keeping ex’s around (reasonable) and you can respond with “I did not call her ‘baby’, it’s just an expression.”

So now the two of you are talking about apples and oranges and the argument never ends. 

You are playing a song and a dance and Star is being driven nuts.

If you truly love Star, you will end your relationships with all your ex-girlfriends and your ex. They are ex’s for a reason. Why do you need them around?

And if Star truly loves you and wants this to work, she will stop the nonsense about the niece. 


If the two of you want a relationship that works I suggest that you get the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" and negotiate the relationship. If you cannot do that, you are not compatable and please break up.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yes there seems to be a language issue going on. English is not my first language either. I have had some of the same issues so I get it.
> 
> But I am picking up that both of you have issues.
> 
> ...


This is excellent advice and thank you.
I need to make another point for clarity and this is huge! I do not keep my xwife or any other xgirlfriend around. This is STAR's incorrect perception. We have discussed this at length almost on a weekly basis again to no avail. My x wife and I talked or emailed 4 times in the past 12 months. And the communication was very brief and generic. One time i told my x of an biz opportunity for both her and her husband might want to check out. Again brief. I have no x gf floating around in the wings. Hey are as u said ex's for a reason. There used to be a few x's on fb but i have since deleted them so very long ago and any and all photos as well. But this just keeps coming up . And she refuses to understand that i simply do not ever talk to x girlfriends amd i dont communicate wih my x wife unless she contacts me. Keeping in mind none of these people are in the state we live and I will never see these leople again. I have no need or reason for it. But making her understand any ot these things is obvious pointless.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Ele Girl, thank you, very very much!

Yes, it might has been a bit of of cultural language clash going on here but I read a lot and 
I know when certain things are not appropriated. 

The niece issue, it might has come in excess of the other multiple women he kept around, I could agree with that, but what I do not understand is why so many people goes AWWWWW to the thought of that possibility , attraction between siblings , when it is something that is a proven phenomenon. That is what I do not understand.

I have very good "guts" barometer. 

Thanks again for all your help. I particularly, am not trying to be a winner in this battle, I just have felt so lonely and was trying to see if someone could see my point of view. Because at this point, I am so far away from the shore, I just do not know what to do.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

For whatever it is worth, after his last post in one of his threads, I am done. 
I feel so misunderstood and Hurt right now I cannot even describe it. 
I have been involved with a Tex book Narcissist and never figure it out until this day. 
I guess we never stop learning.


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

trailwalker said:


> This is excellent advice and thank you.
> I need to make another point for clarity and this is huge! I do not keep my xwife or any other xgirlfriend around. This is STAR's incorrect perception. We have discussed this at length almost on a weekly basis again to no avail. My x wife and I talked or emailed 4 times in the past 12 months. And the communication was very brief and generic. One time i told my x of an biz opportunity for both her and her husband might want to check out. Again brief. I have no x gf floating around in the wings. Hey are as u said ex's for a reason. There used to be a few x's on fb but i have since deleted them so very long ago and any and all photos as well. But this just keeps coming up . And she refuses to understand that i simply do not ever talk to x girlfriends amd i dont communicate wih my x wife unless she contacts me. Keeping in mind none of these people are in the state we live and I will never see these leople again. I have no need or reason for it. But making her understand any ot these things is obvious pointless.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Allllll that good advice...and you barely acknowledge it before going into a lengthy rant. About what? About your being RIGHT. And Star being wrong. 

Star may be insecure, but you are absolutely unrelenting in your need to be right. And to make sure everybody knows you're right. And to make sure everybody knows Star is wrong.

I'm done.

Good luck...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jaquen said:


> You should never have agreed to stop using it. Lots of people use the word "baby" as a generic, impersonal term, or like you stated, point of emphasis. I think you were absolutely right to clarify, but absolutely wrong to promise to stop using the term just because she didn't understand. You've been using that term, in that context, without any issue for years. Kowtowing to your insecure, irrational girlfriend isn't likely to do you any favors in the long run. What happens next time she's irrational about something minor, and insignificant? She'll expect you to relent and grovel again.
> 
> This is beyond a gender/sex issue. When somebody is irrational the last thing you need to do is feed that irrationality.


This is a very interesting and revealing thread. 

This is not about regional linguistics or whether it is reasonable to discuss a concern with someone who is a friend and lover for their consideration. THere is something that is at the center of this situation. The fb post. 

I think Star has it right. This married woman made an inappropriate fb post. Married people do that sometimes. It is just enough off to send out alarms to me. She detecetd something off. It is not a stretch to see how the baby thing would bother her. 

A relationship -protective mature thing to do is to break contact with the woman. Why? 

Well, ask yourself one question, if your wife posted that on fb, would it sit well with you? In fact, I wonder what her husband would think. Moreover, did she show her husband? Suppose Star posted that same thing to a male friend. What then? I know my husband would be in my face about such a fb post. 

This thread is one of the best that I have seen in the "How to Fvck up Your Relationship" category. 

It has all of the elements - name calling, passive-aggressive behavior, dismissing a partners concerns, lack of due consideration in favor of posturing and lack of empathy. 

You think that considering his gf discomfort is a form kowtowing to her? You think she should not share the early warning feelings with her bf? Why?

Should they get sidetracked with him not "groveling" by trying to make her comfortable? 

You have been a TAM member for long enough. How many times have you read the - crazy, jealous controlling "he/she just a friend" thing? 

It does not mean there is anything inappropriate now or will be in the future but it is so easy to get sucked into these things that you have to be proactive. 

At lest one person in this relationship is doing just that. 

But I think you're right, he should grace another woman with his attentions. Poor relationship skills won't matter so much if he cuts and runs frequently. 

Run Star, Run.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

star2916 said:


> For whatever it is worth, after his last post in one of his threads, I am done.
> I feel so misunderstood and Hurt right now I cannot even describe it.
> I have been involved with a Tex book Narcissist and never figure it out until this day.
> I guess we never stop learning.


You're confused because you may not want to face reality. Are you unhappy most of the time in the relationship? Are there brief periods when he is charming and loving? Yet you know every thing he does is self-serving. 

If his pattern of behavior make you doubt your perceptions, then the relationship is not affirming right? It is toxic. But it is still hard to make the decision to leave. 

N are really charming especially early in the relationship. You are waiting for the charming man to show up again. If you are right and he is a N or some other personality disorder, the charmer you fell in love with does not exist. It was a mask to draw you in. 

The real man is the crazy making, selfish one you see most of the time. You are not delusional, every perception you have of things being off is correct. 

You have temporarily lost your self-confidence and sense of yourself. That is very common for normal people who get into relationships with N. When you get rid of him, it will come back. Leave before he beats you down mentally so much that you lose your ability to leave.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Star and TW, you guys are both bringing some emotional triggers to each other that are undeserved. 

TW, she has some valid points that you're ignoring. Shrugging off what's important to your loved one is a BAD idea if you want to make the relationship work. She's insecure about other women, and you are doing nothing to reassure her, which you should be willing to do if you love her... ESPECIALLY when you recognize that there are cultural differences that can get in the way. 

Star, it's equally important for you to figure out how to trust TW if you want the relationship to work. If you trust him, these things won't matter to you. If the reason you mistrust is because of people from your past, then that mistrust is YOUR problem to deal with. It is unfair to ask him to. 

From this thread (I have not read the others), it seems to me that TW should remove the past women he claims are so little contact from his life, and Star should decide NOT to complain about other women unless she sees more than just a simple comment or email. The one from the OW saying "think of you often, come see me" is something he should say "we'd like to" and automatically include Star, or say, "thanks, but Star and I won't have much time." TW, if you respond to these things without making it VERY clear that Star is your partner, you are not discouraging these things from happening. That's your job as a committed partner, so do it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

star2916 said:


> Ele Girl, thank you, very very much!
> 
> Yes, it might has been a bit of of cultural language clash going on here but I read a lot and
> I know when certain things are not appropriated.
> ...


I am very much aware that incest exists as I have done a lot of volunteer work with children who are victims of sexual abuse.

You bring up sibling attraction. Your BF and his niece are not siblings.

The reason I have said that your concern about the niece is seems wrong is that there was NOTHING in the words you said she posted. They sound exactly like the kinds of things family say all the time to each other on FB. It’s the kind of things we all say to each other in person as well. There is nothing unusual about a niece or nephew really liking their uncle and wanting to spend time with them when they visit.

So what you have provided as evidence of what you think is inappropriate behavior does not look like inappropriate behavior at all. 

There are enough concerns with other issues that you really need to drop the niece thing.

To prove that there is something inappropriate going on between your bf and his niece you need something more… like private text messages, emails and conversations that are sexual in nature and not just friendly and caring.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> THere is something that is at the center of this situation. The fb post.


The post you quoted from me was made based off info given solely in the OP, before any of the other cluster**** drama was revealed.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Here's a idea....deactivate both your Facebook pages. You sound like two teenagers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

trailwalker said:


> And here is a prime example where a little more clarity is required. It may prove helpful to your and future posts on this topic...
> 
> This friend of mine with whom we both used the expression "baby" is and always has been just a friend. She is from the south as am I; many folks talk that way. It was and is meaningless and harmless. If I were going to be involved with her it would have happened many years ago prior to meeting STAR while we were both single. We worked for the same company and met during training class. That's how we became friends. She lives over 3000 miles away and is married. But most importantly and the thing here that gets totally lost is that I am not the type of person who would ever cheat or even play games with people's minds. And to your earlier, completely ignorant and incorrect assumption, I do not befriend women just because they are attractive. Has anyone heard of being friends just for the sake of being friendly? Good grief. Not everything is sexually based.


All that said, if your actions are not getting you what you want, ultimately, you have to be willing to change. You can only change yourself, you cannot change someone else. That's her choice. You can make yours. That's just the way it is in relationships, no matter what the relationship is. You can influence someone by the way you behave, but you can't get inside of someone's head and change their emotions by attempting to place your framework of personal logic in their cognitive space. You have to go with what's in there, and start with that. It might not make sense, but that's why love is so wonderful and creepy, all at the same time. Nobody ever said it was going to make sense, lol.

3000 miles away and married means nothing, by the way. Sounds like minimizing...you can feel whatever you want because there are these so-called safety constraints. Ever heard of cheaters having Skype sex? And then hooking up on business trips? Or not? Either way, just as damaging. Not saying you are going to do this, but minimizing due to geography and legal status means squat.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> All that said, if your actions are not getting you what you want, ultimately, you have to be willing to change. You can only change yourself, you cannot change someone else. That's her choice. You can make yours. That's just the way it is in relationships, no matter what the relationship is. You can influence someone by the way you behave, but you can't get inside of someone's head and change their emotions by attempting to place your framework of personal logic in their cognitive space. You have to go with what's in there, and start with that. It might not make sense, but that's why love is so wonderful and creepy, all at the same time. Nobody ever said it was going to make sense, lol.
> 
> 3000 miles away and married means nothing, by the way. Sounds like minimizing...you can feel whatever you want because there are these so-called safety constraints. Ever heard of cheaters having Skype sex? And then hooking up on business trips? Or not? Either way, just as damaging. Not saying you are going to do this, but minimizing due to geography and legal status means squat.


Good info. And yes I get it by the way regarding distance not being an issue. The important factor I was hoping to illustrate is that if my former co-worker friend and I were going to "get together" in any sort of romantic way it would have been because we were actually ATTRACTED to each other in that way. AND would have occurred years ago while we had the greatest opportunity.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> This is a very interesting and revealing thread.
> 
> This is not about regional linguistics or whether it is reasonable to discuss a concern with someone who is a friend and lover for their consideration. THere is something that is at the center of this situation. The fb post.
> 
> ...


"Run Star, Run..." Really??? When you do not have all the history and facts, please. Here's what you don't know about the situation. *Also, please check my recent reply to "Homemaker_Numero_Uno" 

I DID remove my friend from FB along with most every other female who had been a friend (lets be clear, a NON-romantic, not-attracted to, and not-interested in any sexual way whatsoever) of mine for YEARS! I also deactivated my profile and gave my fb password to STAR. I did this to 1-prevent any more comments from others that may be misconstrued as inappropriate. AND 2 - to provide as much transparency as possible and security for STAR. HOWEVER, this action was met with comments such as, "It doesn't matter, you have just gone underground with your communication..." Ah, seriously, there's just no possible way to resolve things when someone's attitude is perpetually negative and accusing. At the age of 43, with a full and busy life, with goals and plans for myself and STAR which do not include leading a "secret" life why in the world would I waste my time and her's pursuing someone I've never had attraction for...? Why would I place a relationship I want to build on with a woman whom I love deeply in jeopardy? This is ludicrous. Especially now, after meeting and falling in love with STAR. To suggest I keep women around whom are all logistically remote, socially unavailable AND whom I have NO attraction for is absurdity at it highest...

Let's also take a look at WHY the three of us got together in the first place. My former co-worker friend was one of the first people I notified when I met and fell in love with STAR. Around a year later this friend had a gathering of her friends in the city we live. She and STAR were fb friends and was excited to finally meet her as I was excited to show off my wonderful woman. This was simply a gathering of friends where a passing comment became completely blown out of proportion and has been the source of great physical and emotional pain for the last year and a half.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Good Morning and thank you very much for taking the time to respond to him and to me.

I have not trust issues from the past, meaning, prior to this relationship. 

The women with the FB post is the same one he called "baby" in front of me, the one that "taped" my 2 minutes conversation with the gentleman at the bar we were seated, the same woman he shared food with, from his plate. and at the time of the post, she was single. This Post was about 2.5 months ago and since then, she went from single, to engaged, to married. 
Yes, he should have responded in that kind of line : "Thanks, but Star and I won't have much time." 
Instead he said she probably didn't mean any harm and totally ignored. And told me I was being insane and she meant both, etc etc.

The thing is, I understand friendships, I have several male friends, I understand exes, but I do not keep in touch with any of them to make my current partner worry it might be too much closeness. 

The niece thing, I have already told him I may have over-reacted, 
I will give the benefit of the doubt, but so you know, they do e mail, speak on the phone and Skype, because he says he wants to see her little girl that he is so fond of. 
At one point a while ago, he mentioned he was going to give the little girl one of his houses as a gift. And what I do not understand, if those comments she made on FB, when her husband became friends with him, he removed all of her posts. . Of course he tells me, he did it for me. But some of these posts have been there for longer than a year, before he decided to "remove them for me" 

And then, if you have read my posts, there were so many other females, which took him 1 1/2 years to see my point and finally remove them from FB, pictures of the ex girlfriend, etc. This is not " too long ago" in a relationship of 2.5 years.

Also, the last time he spoke with his Ex-wife, was 4 times in the past two weeks. Of course, since "he is not the one that contacts her", the other times, it doesn't count to him. 

I feel I am in a relationship where one of the subjects is jeopardizing the purity, passion, love and trust. I do not feel safe. I believe it is my responsibility to take care of my heart and I have given to this "involvement" too much of my efforts already.

Like some member had say, : "it is too early in the relationship to have so many problems." I see this as a " pattern" and not a good one.
If you think I am "insecure" as a woman, after all this "crowded" behavior ... well, I would have to disagree.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

star2916 said:


> ....
> 
> The niece thing, I have already told him I may have over-reacted,
> I will give the benefit of the doubt, but so you know, they do e mail, speak on the phone and Skype, because he says he wants to see her little girl that he is so fond of.
> ...


Only SOME of this is true... 
My x-wife and I did not communicate 4 times in a WEEK. No, not true. I contacted her for a multi-level-marketing biz opp that she and her husband would enjoy - because they are already doing those things. MLM opps, in case you don't know are the one's where you make money by getting as many people into the biz as possible to make the most money. Money, by the way, that would have been used as security into mine and STAR's life. Keep in mind that I told STAR that I would be contacting several people regarding this particular biz opp and my x-wife AND her husband were one of them.

AND can someone other than STAR please tell me why it's considered wrong for family members to keep in touch? Why is it wrong of me to want to actually see my 2yr old great-niece via SKYPE? (side note, it never happened by the way) As most of you adults know children aren't little for long. Forgive me for simply wanting to stay in touch and be a part of my family, to see my great-niece via the Internet and to just say hi. And yes I had planned to offer her a rent house as a college graduation present. Look, I don't have children, never will. My great-niece is the youngest member of my family and I only wanted to give into her life. May God forgive me for these incredible, relationship breaking sins...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am with Catherine602 on this situation. 

It would rub me the wrong way if the guy I am seeing is calling some chick "baby" and she is doing it back in front of me and sharing food from her same plate in front of me and posting on his FB/Social media and how he needs to come and visit her and that she thinks of him often. 

Sometimes things are exactly what they look like.

Star, I wouldn't want to date a guy who has totally different boundaries than I do. It just wouldn't work.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Trailwalker: Do not call me a Liar. 

About two or three weeks ago, you contacted your Ex wife about that marketing Job, then she called you back and told you they were already too busy.

This past Sunday, she e mailed and called you asking if you could find her a Job opening in your Company.
You e mailed, called ? not sure which, telling her you would do so.
How many times is that? 

I know more about your ex wife's life that most people would care to know.

I am starting to feel like I am a mother to you.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Why do you two keep arguing about this on-line? Why not discuss it in person?

Dating is a time to explore personalities with a prospective life partner. You two have done that, and apparently you're not a match. Now the question is, what are you going to do about it? You can both be wonderful people, but it doesn't mean you're wonderful for each other. You can even be wonderful for each other as friends, and not good matches as life partners. There's no harm or shame in that. 

C


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Jellybeans, you are totally right. 

I have given the thought of Counseling may help, I have gone to three different sessions with a Counselor, he only went twice, but unfortunately the MC did not give us any kind of direction.

This is just too many instances and too many people ... I believe it is a matter of character and although I think people can, could change, in this case I am not sure it would work because under his point of view all these concerns are a creation of my distorted perception.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

PBear is right.


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

star2916 said:


> Trailwalker: Do not call me a Liar.
> 
> About two or three weeks ago, you contacted your Ex wife about that marketing Job, then she called you back and told you they were already too busy.
> 
> ...


STAR, as we just discussed on the phone that makes 2. Plus one contact from last august and on from last june. Lets see that is a total of FOUR in one year's time, correct.....?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A friend of your bf eating off his plate shows a level of intimacy. Maybe they were more than friends at one point and she was hoping for more? 

At any rate, Her intention may have been to make trouble out of envy. Keeping the pictures of ex's, any man knows that it would disturb a current gf. Yet it took some time for him to delete them. Again he dismissed your feelings. 

Talking to the ex wife. That may be ligitimate. Each explanation sounds plausible. I would lend credence to the 2yo niece thing. 

In aggregate, they reveal were his bounderies are and his ability to take your feelings into account. You can be sure that his first reaction will be to defend his actions not to think about what you ask. 

He could validate your feelings and ask what he can do to make you comfortable. He can't do everything you want but some of your concerns are worthy. He would do what he could if he wanted an intimate caring relationship. 

If you have to beg him to inforce reasonable bounderies and he makes you the problem then is it worth being in this relationship.?. 

When you consider this, look just at his actions not the words. Words will not make you feel closer to him or safe to be vulnerable. Take your time to decide and plan.

If you stay, Give him only as much as you get and no more. If he ignores your feelings then you can do the same. 

If he does you a favor by showing he cares about how you feel then do the same for him. Show just as much attitude that you are doing him a favor.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> STAR, as we just discussed on the phone that makes 2. Plus one contact from last august and on from last june. Lets see that is a total of FOUR in one year's time, correct.....?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's contact that she's not comfortable with, that part should be easy to understand.

What is more important to you - Star or being right?


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> A friend of your bf eating off his plate shows a level of intimacy. Maybe they were more than friends at one point and she was hoping for more?
> 
> At any rate, Her intention may have been to make trouble out of envy. Keeping the pictures of ex's, any man knows that it would disturb a current gf. Yet it took some time for him to delete them. Again he dismissed your feelings.
> 
> ...


And another chance for clarity here. NOT being defensive, just simple clarity.
The food i ordered for the 3 of us was at a bar and it was two or three appetizers, sort of like tapas. Have you shared that type of meal before? People all just start digging in to the plates. And in this particular case those plates were sitting right in front of me. the waiter perhaps didn't put a plate in front of STAR due to the fact her back was turned towards us as she conversed with the other gentleman. When STAR finally turns around to rejoin me and my friend we are both in the process of eating from the several same "shared" plates. 

I didn't take a "long time" to delete photos of the one x gf from fb or the x wife from the pc. Her photos were kept in a folder along with the website code files. And I simply FORGOT the fb photo was still there. do u have photos on fb? you might stop to consider they can pile up over time and maybe just perhaps you might forget about one or two. but its in no way helpful to make accusations based in ignorance. Because i certainly did not keep them to cause STAR "anxiety." How wrong your crude assumptions are...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

trailwalker said:


> How wrong your crude assumptions are...


Well you certainly know how to put other people in their place. So regardless of whether she does the right thing and leaves you, this talent will serve you well with other women for sure.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

trailwalker said:


> And another chance for clarity here. NOT being defensive, just simple clarity.
> The food i ordered for the 3 of us was at a bar and it was two or three appetizers, sort of like tapas. Have you shared that type of meal before? People all just start digging in to the plates. And in this particular case those plates were sitting right in front of me. the waiter perhaps didn't put a plate in front of STAR due to the fact her back was turned towards us as she conversed with the other gentleman. When STAR finally turns around to rejoin me and my friend we are both in the process of eating from the several same "shared" plates.
> 
> I didn't take a "long time" to delete photos of the one x gf from fb or the x wife from the pc. Her photos were kept in a folder along with the website code files. And I simply FORGOT the fb photo was still there. do u have photos on fb? you might stop to consider they can pile up over time and maybe just perhaps you might forget about one or two. but its in no way helpful to make accusations based in ignorance. Because i certainly did not keep them to cause STAR "anxiety." How wrong your crude assumptions are...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whew Star Is he in the habit of resorting to name calling and anger when you disagree with him? There is also a very subtle implication that I am not as worldly as he because I disagree. (The tapas thing). 

Of course he could say that he was not insulting me and my perception is wrong and that I am over sensitive. He is not defensive. Really, you mean i dont see what i am seeing. Try that on someone else. 

The tactics of a crafty opponent. I hope he saves that ability for real adversaries and not you. 

The tapas tradition is to share selections of small but varried dishes. Each person has their own plate so that they can take a portion of dishes. He could have passed one of the plates to you and let you know that the food was getting cold. 

He and his wife seem to get along well. She wants him to find her a job. Why did they D? 

At any rate, he does have an answer for everything. The sequential revealation of the "fact" seem geared to make him right in every instance. 

You offer one observation and he has a ready "fact" to convince you that you didn't see, or hear what you think you did. Do you find that you need to see things from his point of view because he is right? 

Must be maddening to be in a relationship with a man who gets angry when opposed, resorts to name calling, and subte insults. Not very attractive behavior. 

I would imagine difficult to love long term. It dies slowly under that kind of threatment. Maybe that is what is happening to you Star?


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Whew Star Is he in the habit of resorting to name calling and anger when you disagree with him? There is also a very subtle implication that I am not as worldly as he because I disagree. (The tapas thing).
> 
> Of course he could say that he was not insulting me and my perception is wrong and that I am over sensitive. He is not defensive. Really, you mean i dont see what i am seeing. Try that on someone else.
> 
> ...



It was not Tapas. I am from Spain and I KNOW what tapas are. I do not remember what exactly was the menu, but I do remember everyone having their own plate, and , I REMEMBER very well, he did share some portion of his portion with the other woman. He offered me some of his plate after, and I said no.

Yes, he and his "wife" as I call her, get along very well, like I have say before, I know so much about her life .... he used to bring her up in every conversation until, I have to say STOP.

Yes, name calling: basket case, narcissist, borderline etc etc, and screaming is a normal set of adjectives I get bathed with when I do not agree with him on these kind of issues. 

Also, like someone has point it out, he minimizes and tailors the truth.

Catherine, I am sure I am going trough the withdrawal process right now, still mixed with all kind of emotions. 

Thank you All, for your comments. Very helpful.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

One of my Question is : If he acts this way in front of me, what is going on when he goes to these Conference meetings where the majority of his Group are females .... and they stay out socializing and drinking until 1 AM ...?
And these females, keep communicating with him trough the Year via phone, text etc.

And that is one of the things that makes me feel unsafe.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

star2916 said:


> One of my Question is : If he acts this way in front of me, what is going on when he goes to these Conference meetings where the majority of his Group are females .... and they stay out socializing and drinking until 1 AM ...?
> And these females, keep communicating with him trough the Year via phone, text etc.
> 
> And that is one of the things that makes me feel unsafe.


This has red flags all over the place Star. Maybe I have read too many post on this site about cheating partners.

In your case, he.has ample oppurtunity if he is traveling and goes out drinking with female coworkers. He has poor bounderies when it comes to women.

Finally, he does not care how yiu feel or he would stop all of the inappropriate behavior. Keeping in contact with women he partied with- why? 

Most of all, your intuition is sceaming a warning. If you suspect, you are usually right. Cheaters deny, lie, call their partner crazy, paranoid, jealous and controlling. They will have you thinking you don't see what you see. 

If my characterization is accurate, you need to consider carefully. Trust yourself and regain your self assurance and respect. This relationship may have started out good but look at all of the things that you discovered in the course of dating. 

If you knew them in the beginning would you have become involved with him? Is there enough in this relationship to stay, even if he is not cheating? 

Is it worth the verbal abuse, the lack of care for your feelings. Putting up with the inappropriate behavior with women? He is not likely to change at his age. 

He treats his female friends better that he treats you and you are the one meeting his needs. Maybe not the only one. If he treats you badly and you don't leave, then he is sure that no matter what he does, he will not lose you. 

There are some good web sites that list the signs of cheating. Read it and see if it fits your situation.

It might be best to get tested for STD's now and periodically if you stay with him.

I think He is too sure of you and that's why he is so disrespectful and careless of your feelings. You know you can do better than what you have here, it will take you time to realize that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Do you go out drinking with friends? Stay out till 2AM? Maybe you should have a night out every week. If it is ok for him then he should have no problem with you. Maybe meeting new people is just what you need.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you go out drinking with friends? Stay out till 2AM? Maybe you should have a night out every week. If it is ok for him then he should have no problem with you. Maybe meeting new people is just what you need.


This is exactly what I am going to do from now on. As far as I am concerned, I am in an OPEN relationship!


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you go out drinking with friends? Stay out till 2AM? Maybe you should have a night out every week. If it is ok for him then he should have no problem with you. Maybe meeting new people is just what you need.


As I have mentioned to STAR, too numerous times to recall, the socializing is actually with my MALE friends. We usually sit around smoking cigars drinking and talking. Yes there are females in our near vicinity but I do not hang around alone with any women. I am always in the company of men. Your insight of reading about too many cheaters, along with having over 3500 posts, may have skewed your judgment in this matter? Earlier I mentioned that I never considered a fling with any co-worker even when I was single and they were single. I have made it a point to never cross the line of business to relationship with co-workers. It’s a recipe for disaster career wise. And now, especially in a committed relationship, it’s destructive to both of us. It is not in my nature to cheat. 

Regarding STAR going out with her friends I have no problem with that. But keep in mind the company I am in we are all co-workers in a WORK environment. Even when you are after hours in a social setting, it’s still “work” and it’s very tame. If they are at a place with dancing, I do not dance. When the first opportunity arises I leave to find my guy friends and just hang out. These people are not there to meet people, as the case would be with STAR going out. There aren’t random people coming up and flirting and hitting on each other in these settings. Just going out with friends to a bar or club, you are surrounded by a completely different element and mindset. But I realize neither of you will see it this way so what’s the point of arguing…..


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> This has red flags all over the place Star. Maybe I have read too many post on this site about cheating partners.
> 
> In your case, he.has ample oppurtunity if he is traveling and goes out drinking with female coworkers. He has poor bounderies when it comes to women.
> I agree.
> ...


 You are probably very right on that, although, he has mention to me before, " I will never find someone as good as him " 

Thank you!


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## trailwalker (Apr 24, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you go out drinking with friends? Stay out till 2AM? Maybe you should have a night out every week. If it is ok for him then he should have no problem with you. Maybe meeting new people is just what you need.


Well I see you two have really hit it off.

As I have mentioned to STAR, too numerous times to recall, the socializing is actually with my MALE friends. We usually sit around smoking cigars drinking and talking. Yes there are females in our near vicinity but I do NOT hang around alone with any women. I am always in the company of men. Your insight of reading about too many cheaters, along with having over 3500 posts, may have skewed your judgment in this matter? Earlier I mentioned that I never considered a fling with any co-worker even when I was single and they were single. I have made it a point to never cross the line of business to relationship with co-workers. It’s a recipe for disaster career wise. And now, especially in a committed relationship, it’s destructive to both of us. It is not in my nature to cheat. 

Regarding STAR going out with her friends I have no problem with that. But keep in mind the company I am in vs the one she would be. We are all co-workers in a WORK environment. Even when you are after hours in a social setting, it’s still a “work” environment and it’s very tame. If they are at a place with dancing, I do not dance. When the first opportunity arises, meaning when the shuttle bus arrives, I leave to find my guy friends and just hang out or go to bed. These people are not there to meet people, as the case would be with STAR going out. There aren’t random people coming up and flirting and hitting on each other in these settings. Just going out with friends to a bar or club, you are surrounded by a completely different element and mindset. But I realize neither of you will see it this way so what’s the point of arguing.

And STAR, if you need this to feel better or whatever please know the situation is completely different. And you may as well change your status from “open relationship” to “single.” But again, I know you’ll never see it this way. Who knows, maybe while at the bar with your friends you’ll find this perfect man who appears to have his “boundaries” clearly marked and isn’t “inappropriate.” Keeping in mind he may actually be there to cheat on his wife or gf with you…


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

trailwalker said:


> Well I see you two have really hit it off.
> 
> As I have mentioned to STAR, too numerous times to recall, the socializing is actually with my MALE friends. We usually sit around smoking cigars drinking and talking. Yes there are females in our near vicinity but I do NOT hang around alone with any women. ]Oh .... that explains your very "close picture with "N" in Florida, where she is resting her face on your face, her arm around your neck and her body glued to yours ?[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

star2916 said:


> This is exactly what I am going to do from now on. As far as I am concerned, I am in an OPEN relationship!


"OPEN relationship?"

Why would you stay in this relationship at all? The two of you at going at each and will never solve this.

Also, do you really want to advertise that you are in an open relationship? This means that you are advertising that you are committed to a partner but you are just looking for men to have sex with. You will attract the kind of men who just want casual sex and nothing else. Is this really what you want?

The way it works in a relationship is that both of you state what your boundaries are and what your needs are.

Star, you have stated your boundaries and needs. Obviously trailwalker does not respect your boundaries and needs. Therefore he should leave the relationship instead of putting you down and trying to twist things so that you look crazy.


So the two of you are not compatable. 

The reason for dating it to find out if you are compatable. You have found out that you are not. You both are doing what a lot of people do.. your are trying to force a relationship that is never going to work.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Catherine and EleGirl:
Thank you again for your advice.

No, I do not want to be in an " open relationship" Although I have felt many times I was in One.

Hopefully we both have learned few things from this experience on TAM and we shall exercise the habit of better communication, and .... let's see. 

Thank you again for all the effort and time you have dedicated to us.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

star2916 said:


> BTW - Look up the description of narcissistic personality disorder. See if it fits. These people are masters at manipulating people to stay and take their abuse. There is a lot of help for partners on how to disengage. By knowing, it will be easy to detect BS.
> 
> I may be wrong about everything I have said. It is up to you to be honest with yourself and to do what you think is right.




Will do. Thank you Catherine.[/QUOTE]


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This thread is one of the best that I have seen in the "How to Fvck up Your Relationship" category.
> 
> It has all of the elements - name calling, passive-aggressive behavior, dismissing a partners concerns, lack of due consideration in favor of posturing and lack of empathy.





Catherine602 said:


> If you have to beg him to inforce reasonable bounderies and he makes you the problem then is it worth being in this relationship.?.
> .


YESSSSSSSSSSSS x 1000


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

trailwalker said:


> Who knows, maybe while at the bar with your friends you’ll find this perfect man who appears to have his “boundaries” clearly marked and isn’t “inappropriate.” Keeping in mind he may actually be there to cheat on his wife or gf with you…


Wow. WHat a nice way to turn it around on her.

Star, personally I wouldn't be dealing with this at all. An "open" relationship? Uh, no thanks. I'd rather be alone. The risk of STDs and allowing myself to be disrespected and telling the world I am in this free-for-all relationship is not my bag. But that's just me.

You guys have totally different viewpoints on what is ok/not ok in a relationship. Doesn't make you or Trail evil people, it just means you aren't compatible.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Wow. WHat a nice way to turn it around on her.
> 
> Star, personally I wouldn't be dealing with this at all. An "open" relationship? Uh, no thanks. I'd rather be alone. The risk of STDs and allowing myself to be disrespected and telling the world I am in this free-for-all relationship is not my bag. But that's just me.
> I am not interested, or ever had, in an open relationship in my life. I meant, I felt I was in One with TW because the whole BS going on.
> You guys have totally different viewpoints on what is ok/not ok in a relationship. Doesn't make you or Trail evil people, it just means you aren't compatible.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well I was going off what TW said when he said "you may as well change your status from open relationship to single."


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Well I was going off what TW said when he said "you may as well change your status from open relationship to single."


I understand. Thank you.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Well, I just wanted to update in what has happened, in case you guys wanted to know.

I stayed in the relationship for almost 2 more years as you see. It would have been our 4 year anniversary this October. 

After two more Counselors, which, I must say they were a total disappointing experience, one, we saw for about 8 sessions, he never say a word, gave any guidance, totally a loss of time. The other, told me in my session, he was a Player and in his session, that I was totally a jealous person, (according to TW ) because I was not there.

After the last session with the Counselor, where my boyfriend promised to be totally open and we got together, I checked his phone, ( a week later) which I did have his permission, and guess what, He kept the phone in a " Airplane mode" while with me. He said he made a mistake , sorry, blabla bla.
I tried to get busy with my life and promised him after the last altercate, I will not check on his phone again. But I did, and again, this time, he has put a password on it. Told me, he was trying to TEST me.
We were separated before this for about a week and wanted to know if he has " started " another relationship with someone while apart and as you know, I cannot take his word as a fact.

For the past three months, he has a new manager that is a female in his 30's. I do not know her, but in his kind of work, the manager rides with him in his car, for a day, visiting his accounts, once or two times per month. They have breakfast together and lunch together, and he takes her to the airport. He asked if I was going to have a problem with her, told him No but please keep it professional, do not become too attached to her.
Well, for what I have seen, their texts convos are very "friendly", where He ask to meet with her in a different day because he was going out of town, she replied " You know, I cannot deny anything to you" and went on saying "they will just meet 1/2 a day for lunch and they will rock their sushi breath away the rest of the day". Which he responded: Wonderful!!! I will ride you .... ( do not remember what else was say there .... 
The next text, few days later : She is saying , " I will have to arm rustle with you on that " ( on what she was referring, has been deleted, ) 
She is texting him when she lands after their day, ( an hour airplane ride) and being very effusive : "Thank you for a great day!!! I really appreciates how good team player you are and admires his dedication to his work and personal goals. "But what she like most is his love for Sushi mmmmm ..." And of course, he tells her he also appreciates all the support in his career and his personal endeavors ... also he finishes " I am glad we found a new sushi place .... "
He tells me, that is totally normal and I am just being mischievous, jealous, crazy etc etc and it is nothing wrong with these texts, it is only because she is a female ... ( by the way, she is supposedly married ) 
About 4 weeks ago, he went to a bike ride, just for fun, which I was not invited to go, to the city his ex wife lives. I asked, (he did not volunteer), if he was meeting with his ex wife. He said he had asked her if they will meet ,( but of course with her husband present) . What happened, I do not know, his version is, the husband was busy that particular Sunday and they couldn't meet. 

Three weeks ago, he went to Canada for another bike ride, ( this one I was invited, but I did not want to go because I just did not feel justified all the troubles I need to go trough with my pets, since I have not been feeling attached to him ). He only called me in the mornings and evenings, because he did not have "long distance in his phone". He was gone for 4 days. Between these two trips, he has been volunteering to do some weekends meetings with his work in the weekends, so we have really spend very little together for the past three months, between fights ( ah, it takes about a week or so for him to Get Over any issues we may have.) 

Of course, all of the above, could be really justified and be look up as innocent but after all the history with him ... I throw my towel .... I told him, this time " I will pass ...."

I have left him, has been about 12 days now. 
It feels like a family member has died . 
Very hard, but I hope I have what it takes to stay away from that toxic and terrible relationship. 

I am working on myself, trying to figure out why I stayed this long. I have never had any issues with self steam before, now I do. 

My experience with Counselors has been terrible, either they just listen and do not offer anything that is a proactive way of fixing problems. 
I have always believe that a relationship needed to be guarded, nurtured and what someone said, appearances are important. They often it is the only thing that is " tangible" 

Please, feel free to advice. 

Thank you for listening.
Star


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

You are well rid of him. The sushi comment...wow. I'm sorry it took you another two years to finally leave him, but better late than never. You will heal.


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

You did the right thing. You need some time to heal. The whole thing must have eroded your self esteem. You will feel better about yourself with time. Try to find a good therapist to help you in this though time. Don't go for client centred therapy. Go for pyschotherapy


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Thank you Firebelly and Jane.
It made a difference, your comments.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

Definitely was not a good match. Good move to get out, for the both of you.

People stick around mediocre / bad relationships for far too long... fear of change is such a big factor.


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## Phoenix Flame (Sep 14, 2014)

Ok, I've read the whole thing, tried to be objective and see his side, but, hmm...no.

This guy is a bit of a nightmare.

He is totally disrespectful and pretty much cares nothing about your feelings, only his own. He sounds like he fancies himself a bit too much, and likes to have all these women hanging off him. You know what he sounds like? A single guy.

Too defensive, too arrogant, too many excuses and poor ones at that, wants his cake and eat it too. My instincts would be screaming "dodgy".

In my opinion, you're well shot of him.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Thank you Phoenix, I was in love with him and tried to see his point of view, for 4 years. That's how I found TAM. But after all this time, and history repeating itself time and time again .... it is not way I could have stayed. My conscience couldn't live with it.

Thank you Justaguy. 
You would think by this time, I should be " cured" and do not feel any pain, but I am struggling. I know I will be OK and I am accepting all the sadness and anger and pain and ... you know .... but I understand that what I am missing is " what it appeared to be that it could have been" .... nah ... just a fantasy, I know .

Thanks again.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I tried to help a girl who was in your exact situation. Unfortunately, she too did not listen. Anytime she saw a text on his phone, he always had a response such as "I am testing you" and just lie after lie after lie.

Long story short, he was cheating on her and she is now married to a guy who (a) respects her and (b) kicked his (her ex) ass when he tried to confront her after he (her ex) lost his control over her. Not only did the guy never show his face around her again after that but he completely quit his job and fell off the face of the earth.

Stay up and love yourself.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Thank you Wise. Very nice of you to read and comment. It helps a lot


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

star2916 said:


> Thank you Phoenix, I was in love with him and tried to see his point of view, for 4 years. That's how I found TAM. But after all this time, and history repeating itself time and time again .... it is not way I could have stayed. My conscience couldn't live with it.
> 
> Thank you Justaguy.
> You would think by this time, I should be " cured" and do not feel any pain, but I am struggling. I know I will be OK and I am accepting all the sadness and anger and pain and ... you know .... but I understand that what I am missing is " what it appeared to be that it could have been" .... nah ... just a fantasy, I know .
> ...


How many times where you allowed to feel stupid?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

wise said:


> I tried to help a girl who was in your exact situation. Unfortunately, she too did not listen. Anytime she saw a text on his phone, he always had a response such as "I am testing you" and just lie after lie after lie.
> 
> Long story short, he was cheating on her and she is now married to a guy who (a) respects her and (b) kicked his (her ex) ass when he tried to confront her after he (her ex) lost his control over her. Not only did the guy never show his face around her again after that but he completely quit his job and fell off the face of the earth.
> 
> Stay up and love yourself.


How much of a difference did this make in her life?


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## Mrs.Sav (Mar 13, 2014)

Phoenix Flame said:


> Ok, I've read the whole thing, tried to be objective and see his side, but, hmm...no.
> 
> This guy is a bit of a nightmare.
> 
> ...


I know this thread is old - from May 2013 but I had to comment:

I, too, also feel Star's pain. TW fails to see that if something bothers her, he should empathize and try to mitigate the damage rather than defend his stance by explaining why he didn't do anything wrong just so he can continue to do precisely what bothers Star. This sounds like emotional torture to have to endure for the rest of your life. You will never be happy with him.


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## star2916 (May 21, 2013)

Thank you Mrs. Sav I know the thread is old, but I was not sure how to start a new one. 
I appreciate your comment and I thank you for taking the time to read it. Every comment reaffirms my decision and makes me stronger.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am so happy you got away. Give it time and stay away from him. In time, the spell will be broken and you will wonder why you put you with him. Don't beat yourself up, BTW. 

It may help to know that some people are masters at making an emotionally healthy person anxious and off balance. They use the carrot and stick alternately once they manage to get the person bonded to them. You need time and distance to free yourself completely. 

I don't think he will go away so easily. He may love you but he is incapable of loving anyone as much as he adores himself. That will never change. Your life will change enormously once you recover and start dating again. My advice is to date at lest 10 guys and don't get emotionally involved too soon. Decide what you like and don't like and practice picking out red flags. Then you will be ready to pick a healthy comparable man.


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