# The Talk



## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Well guys I finally did it, I had the talk with my wife about our sex life, I told her how we haven't been intimate in the last 4 weeks and that I was depressed and thought she might be having an affair as she has been rejecting my every move on her.
She told me that with working full time and looking after the kids and housework the last thing on her mind was having sex with me and that she just wants to rest when in bed and that she hasn't been feeling well for the last 2 weeks but kept it to herself and battled on.
I told her that she must tell me when she's not well and I would go up a gear and take some of the load off of her the best i can ie kids baths etc so she can rest, when I said about her having an affair she laughed jokingly saying when would I have time for that and that I'm stuck with her and I believed her.
Also I said to her that when she turns me down I feel rejected and hurt and that if she's feeling horny she should let me know ie pinching my bum etc instead of me being a mindreader, she said that it wasn't really her but she did say that tomorrow night I should give her a back massage as it's gets her in the mood.
I'm glad I plucked up the courage to talk to her it's as though a weight has been lifted off me.

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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Well guys I finally did it, I had the talk with my wife about our sex life, I told her how we haven't been intimate in the last 4 weeks and that I was depressed and thought she might be having an affair as she has been rejecting my every move on her.
> She told me that with working full time and looking after the kids and housework the last thing on her mind was having sex with me and that she just wants to rest when in bed and that she hasn't been feeling well for the last 2 weeks but kept it to herself and battled on.
> I told her that she must tell me when she's not well and I would go up a gear and take some of the load off of her the best i can ie kids baths etc so she can rest, when I said about her having an affair she laughed jokingly saying when would I have time for that and that I'm stuck with her and I believed her.
> Also I said to her that when she turns me down I feel rejected and hurt and that if she's feeling horny she should let me know ie pinching my bum etc instead of me being a mindreader, she said that it wasn't really her but she did say that tomorrow night I should give her a back massage as it's gets her in the mood.
> ...


Great job on communicating your views to her,
My question would be, if she is working full time also, why aren’t you helping her out more, lack of sex is the only thing to get you to sit up and notice her burden. I think you need to step up your game in a bigger way. Sounds like she’s doing it all with little support.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Good job on communicating! 

Why aren’t you helping her out more at home considering she also works full time. Is lack of sex the only reason you are willing to help. She will see through that in no time and end up resentful. 

Do your fair share. This happens in many homes, wives end up exhausted as they come home after a long day at work but end up taking on the majority of kid care and housework and Husbands wonder why they are too tired for sex........go figure,😉


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Good to communicate. I suspect though that if she doesn't want sex, there will always be some reason not to have it. At least that's been my experience over many years.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I'm glad I plucked up the courage to talk to her it's as though a weight has been lifted off me.


I recommend that you don't get your hopes up. I hope I'm wrong.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> She told me that with working full time and looking after the kids and housework the last thing on her mind was having sex with me..


Damn straight. I wouldn't touch your worthless ass either if all the work and responsibility and child-care fell on MY shoulders while also working a full time job. What's wrong with _you_? Old war injury won't let you do your SHARE?

Here's a quick math lesson for you . You BOTH work full time jobs. That means, you both have a 50% SHARE of the workload at home. Get it?



> I told her that she must tell me when she's not well and I would go up a gear and take some of the load off of her the best i can ie kids baths etc so she can rest...


How big of you. You're willing to help take 'her' load off her shoulders. Unreal.

No wonder she doesn't have sex with you.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Whoa there girls put the pitchforks down, I do help and I also work full time, I cook every meal even if she's been home all day I do, do the housework, All the maintenance of the house like fitting a whole new shower on the weekend.
I clean the kitchen and I do the ironing when it's my turn, I get the kids school lunches ready before I go to work at 5am 
And also get their uniforms ready if my wife is on nights,And like tonight I will help my kids with their homework when my wife goes to work.
Oh and I do the washing and drying as well so before you label me as a 1950s chauvinistic Pig I do my 50% of chores around the house and more.
She gets tired because after working a 12hr night shift she will do the horse after taking the kids to school so she dosent go to bed till 10am then she's back up at 2:30 to pick the kids up, I can't do it as I drive a lorry from 6am till 5pm mon-fri.
When I said I'll go up a gear I mean I'll do extra chores so she dosent have to...



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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> I recommend that you don't get your hopes up. I hope I'm wrong.


This was my thought too sadly, as my wife before the affair, over the last few years would bring out the excuses and then say, well, how about tomorrow, how about this and it would come and nothing changed BUT. The communication for you was a good thing, keep doing and you have to at least try what she says and stick to it. If she's well intentioned, she will want to see that you mean it and that you are doing things for her with no strings attached and that will help quite a bit as well!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Well, I agree with @Steve1000. I wouldn't get my hopes up to high. It sounds like you already do your fair share and it seems as if she just doesn't care. It may very well just be a phase of life the two of you are going thru. But from what you have posted here, it seems a little more than just that. Her response "well, you are stuck with me" says a lot. That sentiment rings of complacency. Oh, but tomorrow she will allow you to give a back rub! Are you going to get a back rub? You went to her, aside from a complacent reaction and suggesting what you can do for her, where is her sense of compassion about your feelings? Apparently those aren't important. Because it is just a given that don't have any other choices (in her mind)
Dude, I lived that life. It isn't going to get better for you. Yes, sometimes we all get busy and sex gets put on the back burner. But a month? My ex told me once that she was so busy she didn't even have time to think about having sex with me. Man, talk about deflating your ego!
It really sounds like your wife just doesn't care about you or your needs. You can't tell me that in the course of a month there wasn't a time where she could rearrange things or put something on the back burner to do the one thing that she should only be doing with you.
You need to stop being her door mat. Continue to advocate for your needs. If she continues to not care. Perhaps you need to have a different discussion.
Flame on ladies!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Whoa there girls put the pitchforks down, I do help and I also work full time, I cook every meal even if she's been home all day I do, do the housework, All the maintenance of the house like fitting a whole new shower on the weekend.
> I clean the kitchen and I do the ironing when it's my turn, I get the kids school lunches ready before I go to work at 5am
> And also get their uniforms ready if my wife is on nights,And like tonight I will help my kids with their homework when my wife goes to work.
> Oh and I do the washing and drying as well so before you label me as a 1950s chauvinistic Pig I do my 50% of chores around the house and more.
> ...


Yeah, this constant knee-jerk assumption that the man never does his share around the house is getting more than a little old.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I understand where you are coming from but it sounds like in this, and in many other cases, he is already doing his share. 

In my case my wife was laid off a few months ago. Despite her no longer working and my still doing 1/2 the house chores, and working a full time job, she is still too "tired" or "doesn't have time" for sex. 

In most of these cases its not about being tired or overworked, its about not wanting sex, or wanting it very rarely. 

People who want / enjoy sex will find a way to make it happen unless things are incredibly busy. Those who don't will find a way to make it not happen. 


There certainly are some people who have lazy / useless partners and that is a perfectly good reason not to feel attraction. In a lot of these cases though, that is not what is going on. 





She'sStillGotIt said:


> Damn straight. I wouldn't touch your worthless ass either if all the work and responsibility and child-care fell on MY shoulders while also working a full time job. What's wrong with _you_? Old war injury won't let you do your SHARE?
> 
> Here's a quick math lesson for you . You BOTH work full time jobs. That means, you both have a 50% SHARE of the workload at home. Get it?
> 
> ...


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Actually, if they are both that buys with work and the house they should budget money for a housecleaner so they can have more time together. But, in all honesty I don't think it will work. He's a passive beta.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

A house cleaner is a good idea, but I agree it won't help. Its not about his being beta, its that she doesn't want sex. 

Some people simply don't want sex, or want very little sex. They will always find an excuse, but the reality is that the issue is internal, not external. Nothing will make them want it. Then their partners can live with it or leave. 

The only way the OP sounds beta to me is that he hasn't divorced his wife. (something about sworn oaths I suspect). 



Bananapeel said:


> Actually, if they are both that buys with work and the house they should budget money for a housecleaner so they can have more time together. But, in all honesty I don't think it will work. He's a passive beta.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

One of two things will happen:

1) The back rub will lead to her feeling more tired and she'll want to fall asleep. You'll be given a "rain check" that ends up amounting to nothing. 
2) The back rub will lead to sex. That will be the last time you have sex for many weeks. When you ask about sex in two weeks, she'll say "Don't you remember that we had sex just the other night? I'm tired."


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> Actually, if they are both that buys with work and the house they should budget money for a housecleaner so they can have more time together. But, in all honesty I don't think it will work. He's a passive beta.


I agree. He is just happy he plucked up the courage to have the talk. So far no results other than he is allowed to give her a backrub "tomorrow"! Real results might have entailed some mind blowing action right then


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Women are only the gatekeepers for sex if men let it happen that way. He can choose to exercise his power and walk away. That's what I'd do and projecting that is why I've not had to deal with this type of situation.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

uhtred said:


> A house cleaner is a good idea, but I agree it won't help. Its not about his being beta, its that she doesn't want sex.
> 
> Some people simply don't want sex, or want very little sex. They will always find an excuse, but the reality is that the issue is internal, not external. Nothing will make them want it. Then their partners can live with it or leave.
> 
> The only way the OP sounds beta to me is that he hasn't divorced his wife. (something about sworn oaths I suspect).


His wife doesn't want sex because he's beta about it. The same women that don't like sex with their husbands will act like a porn star with others, after they are divorced and back on the market. 

Not divorcing in a sexless marriage isn't about an oath. That's just an excuse betas give to justify their decision to stay. Remember they both took the same oath and she obviously isn't keeping up her end of the deal, which nullifies his obligation to stay in the marriage.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

"through better and through worse, until death do us part". Not a lot of loopholes in that one. 

I agree that there is an argument that her refusing sex is violating her oath, but its not clear whether that frees him from his oath.


*Some* women may not want sex with what you perceive as as "beta" man, but some simply do not want sex. Some are really not going to go for the caveman "Wife, you are going to have sex with me now". 

I suspect that men who have a "alpha" approach to sex would not have even started dating women who have a low interest in sex, or would have stopped dating as soon as her low interest was apparent. 







Bananapeel said:


> His wife doesn't want sex because he's beta about it. The same women that don't like sex with their husbands will act like a porn star with others, after they are divorced and back on the market.
> 
> Not divorcing in a sexless marriage isn't about an oath. That's just an excuse betas give to justify their decision to stay. Remember they both took the same oath and she obviously isn't keeping up her end of the deal, which nullifies his obligation to stay in the marriage.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> Women are only the gatekeepers for sex if men let it happen that way. He can choose to exercise his power and walk away. That's what I'd do and projecting that is why I've not had to deal with this type of situation.


Ditto to this. I was in a relationship with a gatekeeper man. It wasn't a joint sex life. It wasn't OUR sexual connection. He not only straight out rejected, but put in controls so that there wouldn't even be a chance for me to initiate/sex, ie, he would only have sex late in the evening right before sleeping. So if he decided not to come to bed with me at a reasonable bedtime (I had to get up at 7 for work in the mornings) there would be no chance for sex. No, not coming to bed now. Nope, I can't come in, spend time with you, then come back out to the living room to continue watching TV. Nope, I can't have sex earlier in the evening. He made all of the decisions when and how. Sex was a low priority for him. It's no way to have a happy life. Someone is a gatekeeper only if you continue to let them be.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Ynot said:


> I agree. He is just happy he plucked up the courage to have the talk. So far no results other than he is allowed to give her a backrub "tomorrow"! Real results might have entailed some mind blowing action right then


I called her when I was In work as I'm not to good face to face and she's working 7-7 nights tonight, hence why she said tomorrow.

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

uhtred said:


> "through better and through worse, until death do us part". Not a lot of loopholes in that one.
> 
> I agree that there is an argument that her refusing sex is violating her oath, but its not clear whether that frees him from his oath.
> 
> ...


I've tried being the alpha male but I get the same results, she's always said she prefers the nice guy over some jerk who will treat her like garbage.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Alpha-beta, gamma omega...

OP if your wife continues to be unresponsive then you need to up your game for yourself and start doing for yourself. Try a soft 180. Do your share, but stop being instantly available for her all the time. Until she starts taking care of you I would not do one affectionate thing for her. The more you chase her and whine, the more undesirable you will look towards her. 

Read _*No More Mr. Nice Guy *_as well as *Married Man's Sex Life Primer*. Both are available on Amazon. They are eye-opening books with a lot of thought provoking philosophy in them on how to be a more self-secure man. 

And can I ask you something? Why are you not requiring your kids to take care of their own school clothes and lunches? I was cleaning and ironing my own clothes, cooking and cleaning by the time I was 10. I had to learn that stuff early and I was expected to take care of myself. I was cooking full dinners daily by the time I was 12. Make your kids take up some of the slack. Its good for them. Teaches them responsibility and self-sufficiency.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> Actually, if they are both that buys with work and the house they should budget money for a housecleaner so they can have more time together. But, in all honesty I don't think it will work. He's a passive beta.


I have mentioned about a cleaner but my wife said she didn't like the idea of a stranger cleaning up our mess.

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Bananapeel said:


> Women are only the gatekeepers for sex if men let it happen that way. He can choose to exercise his power and walk away. That's what I'd do and projecting that is why I've not had to deal with this type of situation.


Sadly I won't walk away as I love my children and would be lost without them 

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I've tried being the alpha male but I get the same results, she's always said she prefers the nice guy over some jerk who will treat her like garbage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Stop. The way you become "alpha schmalpha" (which is really horse-hockey) is you start putting your own needs first. Sorry, but putting your wife before you doesn't work for her does it? She has shown you and told you that but you have not been listening. See to your household chores, but stop doing for her. Stop being affectionate, stop being cloying, stop trying to barter for her affection. 

Once you get done with your chores, tell her you are heading for the gym. Don't ask. Get in shape, lift weights, get back into your hobbies, get some nice new clothes, change your hairstyle. Do for you and quit waiting for her. She fell in love with a guy who was together in himself and exciting. Since that time you have become a domesticated jello pop. Get back to your inner caveman. She wants that guy back.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Sadly I won't walk away as I love my children and would be lost without them
> and also
> I've tried being the alpha male but I get the same results, she's always said she prefers the nice guy over some jerk who will treat her like garbage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Two things. First off no one has told you to be a jerk and treat anyone like garbage. That is complete BS. People have told you to step up and be a man. That means advocating for YOURSELF and not being treated like garbage yourself.
Second thing, if you truly love your children, you would now want them to be seeing you as the door mat you allow yourself to be. See my first point. 
Your children are watching their parents. They are learning how a marriage is supposed to work. Do you want to visit your present upon their future?


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Ynot said:


> Well, I agree with @Steve1000. I wouldn't get my hopes up to high. It sounds like you already do your fair share and it seems as if she just doesn't care. It may very well just be a phase of life the two of you are going thru. But from what you have posted here, it seems a little more than just that. Her response "well, you are stuck with me" says a lot. That sentiment rings of complacency. Oh, but tomorrow she will allow you to give a back rub! Are you going to get a back rub? You went to her, aside from a complacent reaction and suggesting what you can do for her, where is her sense of compassion about your feelings? Apparently those aren't important. Because it is just a given that don't have any other choices (in her mind)
> Dude, I lived that life. It isn't going to get better for you. Yes, sometimes we all get busy and sex gets put on the back burner. But a month? My ex told me once that she was so busy she didn't even have time to think about having sex with me. Man, talk about deflating your ego!
> It really sounds like your wife just doesn't care about you or your needs. You can't tell me that in the course of a month there wasn't a time where she could rearrange things or put something on the back burner to do the one thing that she should only be doing with you.
> You need to stop being her door mat. Continue to advocate for your needs. If she continues to not care. Perhaps you need to have a different discussion.
> Flame on ladies!


Sadly I very much doubt I'll get a back rub sigh

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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> His wife doesn't want sex because he's beta about it. The same women that don't like sex with their husbands will act like a porn star with others, after they are divorced and back on the market.


This is a bit of a false comparison. Yeah, she'll be hot for the new guy for a year or two, but then she'll lose the mood once the shine wears off him. Sex is *always* hot at the start of a relationship. Unfortunately, it's not a good indicator of how it will be years or decades down the line. 

*Lonelygent1977*, the schedules and obligations of you and your W are going to put a lot of strain on your marriage. There is no time where you two can just hang out and enjoy each other's company. That right there kills the drive for most women. If she can't have free time with you, it's unlikely she'll have spontaneous desire for sex. With that in mind, I would recommend you have a schedule for intimacy since it's not going to happen otherwise. For example:

- Go to bed at the same time whenever possible. Include non-sexual cuddling where you are just embracing each other. If one person comes to bed late or gets up early, they cuddle when they arrive or leave.
- Pick 1 time a week for sex, such as Saturday night. Yes, this isn't very romantic, but it will allow her to relax knowing when it will happen. It will allow her to better be able to clear her mind of stress rather than if you just spring it on her at random times.

I think you should understand the reality of your situation and not hold out hope for perfection. It is very unlikely that she'll have spontaneous desire where she wants sex on a regular basis. If you strive for that and only that, you will be greatly disappointed. But if you can find some level of shared intimacy which you find satisfying, then things can work out. It won't be perfect, but it can be good enough so that you don't feel like you have to leave to be happy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> She gets tired because after working a 12hr night shift she will do the horse after taking the kids to school so she dosent go to bed till 10am then she's back up at 2:30 to pick the kids up


I think her schedule may be a big player in this. Working such odd hours wreaks havoc on hormones. It also leaves one feeling continuously fatigued.

Her getting on a normal day shift may help her feel a lot happier and more energetic. It may improve your sex life as a result.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I have mentioned about a cleaner but my wife said she didn't like the idea of a stranger cleaning up our mess.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Don't ever ask permission. Do it. Pay for it out of your own pocket if you have to. Then you will have more time to go to the gym, play with your kids and work on yourself.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thor said:


> I think her schedule may be a big player in this. Working such odd hours wreaks havoc on hormones. It also leaves one feeling continuously fatigued.
> 
> Her getting on a normal day shift may help her feel a lot happier and more energetic. It may improve your sex life as a result.


It's all excuses. A couple have to push through the fatigue and see to each other's needs once in a while. It's called sacrifice.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I called her when I was In work as I'm not to good face to face and she's working 7-7 nights tonight, hence why she said tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Why is it so hard for you to talk with her directly? It's not like your asking her for kidney. What do you fear about it? 



Lonelygent1977 said:


> I've tried being the alpha male but I get the same results, she's always said she prefers the nice guy over some jerk who will treat her like garbage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


You don't know really how to be assertive if you are seeking her permission for it and allowing her to dictate how it goes. Alphas don't mistreat others, they are just direct with their expectations and enforce boundaries. They also speak their mind, hence, my earlier post. 



Lonelygent1977 said:


> I have mentioned about a cleaner but my wife said she didn't like the idea of a stranger cleaning up our mess.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Again, your wife is dictating your relationship. If you were assertive you'd look her in the eye and say that you think she needs a break so she can relax, and a housecleaner is you gift to her so she can have more time to herself. Then you'd hire one. 



Lonelygent1977 said:


> Sadly I won't walk away as I love my children and would be lost without them
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


How about being a good role model for them instead. Would you want your children to be in the type of relationship you are in and consider it normal? Or, would you rather model for them how to be direct, confident, and assertive and live in a relationship where your needs aren't being sacrificed at your expense?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> I recommend that you don't get your hopes up. I hope I'm wrong.


Yes, this hope getting in gear, erasing any fear.
This hope getting up with sex on/in your mind and in your head.

And the little head following suit, getting up, getting in gear.
Wanting to get near, to get put in, putting it in gear.
Without fear.

I too, hope you are wrong, Steve at 1000 feet.

Anything closer than 1000 ft, is hope, heat felt, heart felt, hard felt.
May heat, heart and hard mix, meld and consummate most days, most nights.
And may each heart, gain heat, gain hope and may each their conjugal anxiety melt.

Melt away, in bliss, sealed with a kiss. Not smoking afterward.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Bananapeel said:
> 
> 
> > Women are only the gatekeepers for sex if men let it happen that way. He can choose to exercise his power and walk away. That's what I'd do and projecting that is why I've not had to deal with this type of situation.
> ...


So you are making an affirmative statement that you will stay in this relationship, and that the reason in that you would be "lost" not living full time with your children. 

At least this is a start. Your know what your life boundaries are. You are in this marriage no matter what your intimate life is like with your wife. I think you need to somehow just get used to being at the mercy of her sexual decisions. This won't be a joint union or connection.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> His wife doesn't want sex because he's beta about it. The same women that don't like sex with their husbands will act like a porn star with others, after they are divorced and back on the market.


Another possibility is that the OP's wife knew that she wasn't much interested in sex so she married a man who would not be assertive enough to demand it.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> Another possibility is that the OP's wife knew that she wasn't much interested in sex so she married a man who would not be assertive enough to demand it.


QFT


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Steve1000 said:


> Another possibility is that the OP's wife knew that she wasn't much interested in sex so she married a man who would not be assertive enough to demand it.


We used to fook like rabbits before the kids then it decreased after each child with my wife just not being in the mood.

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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

"The Talk" has never resulted in spontaneous arousal. After all... that's really what you want, right? You don't want "Oh, okay... I guess I'll have sex with you." You want her to bite her lip and throw herself at you because she really wants you. When you sit down and chat, you're actually pushing that spontaneous/primal arousal further away.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> We used to fook like rabbits before the kids then it decreased after each child with my wife just not being in the mood.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


At that time, did you feel that she was really into you and into sex with you?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> "The Talk" has never resulted in spontaneous arousal. After all... that's really what you want, right? You don't want "Oh, okay... I guess I'll have sex with you." You want her to bite her lip and throw herself at you because she really wants you. When you sit down and chat, you're actually pushing that spontaneous/primal arousal further away.


"The Talk" is actually the ultimate no win scenario. The essence of "The Talk" is that you're not satisfied. When a woman hears a man is not satisfied with her, it _does not _act as an aphrodisiac.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Steve1000 said:


> At that time, did you feel that she was really into you and into sex with you?


Yes I believe so, unless the 22 years we have been together I have forgotten, I have thought in the past that she feels like she missed out on dating other men as she was only 15 and I was 17 when we started dating she turns 39 this year.

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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

You have several things working against you:

1. Kids - They kill romantic relationships. Not always, of course, but more often than not.
2. You got together at a very young age. Does she feel like she missed out? Yep.
3. Her age. 39. This is a huge deal for her. 

You are in prime "midlife crisis" territory here. Next step is her asking you if you ever heard of "open marriage", hanging out with that one guy from work a lot, going out on "girls night outs", hitting the gym in a big way, dressing younger, always on her phone, etc. 

I, and a lot of other dudes, have seen this scenario about a bajillion times. The dead bedroom always precedes the other steps. Be careful.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Damn straight. I wouldn't touch your worthless ass either if all the work and responsibility and child-care fell on MY shoulders while also working a full time job. What's wrong with _you_? Old war injury won't let you do your SHARE?
> 
> Here's a quick math lesson for you . You BOTH work full time jobs. That means, you both have a 50% SHARE of the workload at home. Get it?
> 
> ...


My new wife cooked me breakfast this morning, works all day, comes home and won't sit down and rest in spite of me begging her too, that whatever it is she's doing I will gladly do....
She is kinda bummed at me because I don't want it every night. 
It's not about work load....... In all honesty, it's probably about hormones or chemicals or whatever kinds libido thing you want to call it. Certainly stress and exhaustion will kill desire, but if it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. When I was in my 20's and 30's, I could be near death from over exertion or have the flu-----I still wanted some sex! 

Your quote above is re-direction from some deep-seeded resentment from your past. Cut the guy some slack! He's only said he would step up his game. We don't always know what our spouse is thinking or how they're feeling unless they say something.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> My new wife cooked me breakfast this morning, works all day, comes home and won't sit down and rest in spite of me begging her too, that whatever it is she's doing I will gladly do....
> She is kinda bummed at me because I don't want it every night.
> It's not about work load....... In all honesty, it's probably about hormones or chemicals or whatever kinds libido thing you want to call it. Certainly stress and exhaustion will kill desire, but if it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. When I was in my 20's and 30's, I could be near death from over exertion or have the flu-----I still wanted some sex!
> 
> Your quote above is re-direction from some deep-seeded resentment from your past. Cut the guy some slack! He's only said he would step up his game. We don't always know what our spouse is thinking or how they're feeling unless they say something.


Spot on 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

dadstartingover said:


> You have several things working against you:
> 
> 1. Kids - They kill romantic relationships. Not always, of course, but more often than not.
> 2. You got together at a very young age. Does she feel like she missed out? Yep.
> ...


I agree that a dead bedroom is a bad sign, but..... from my experience, women from about 35-45 have some of the strongest sex drives of any age group. Like an 18yr. old guy.....
He should be getting lots of sex at her age if she's got a decent libedo.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wait, new wife? When did that happen?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Wait, new wife? When did that happen?


That's what I said!


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

dadstartingover said:


> You have several things working against you:
> 
> 1. Kids - They kill romantic relationships. Not always, of course, but more often than not.
> 2. You got together at a very young age. Does she feel like she missed out? Yep.
> ...


Yes I totally agree with you, the kids are a nightmare my wife will only have sex with me if the kids are in bed asleep or we are alone ie kids at school or with grandparents, I know she has the big 40 quickly approaching and I try to avoid talking about it, I am in the process of booking a holiday for her birthday, she took me to Rome for my 40th last year.

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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree that a dead bedroom is a bad sign, but..... from my experience, women from about 35-45 have some of the strongest sex drives of any age group. Like an 18yr. old guy.....
> He should be getting lots of sex at her age if she's got a decent libedo.


Oh, absolutely. But where does he fit into that? He doesn't. He's part of the problem (in her mind), not somebody who turns her on.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

HD/LD is the no win situation. For some people, NOTHING you can do will make them have sex. You may pressure them into sex by threatening to leave, but you can't make them want it. 






Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> "The Talk" is actually the ultimate no win scenario. The essence of "The Talk" is that you're not satisfied. When a woman hears a man is not satisfied with her, it _does not _act as an aphrodisiac.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I only dated her about 2 months before proposing. We've been married about 2.5 weeks. I felt like I found a jewel. I still do. 
My best friend jumped my case about it, and I couldn't do anything but agree he was right. However, I felt like I've led my whole life taking basically no risk, and still got screwed over by my wife whom I dated 4 years before proposing, and my ex gf, which I dated 1.5 yrs prior to proposing. My wife had zero red flags other than a lot of her relatives have really poor medical histories. She has had zero mental problems and she's 40. SHe's on no medications... I'd think they'd manifest themselves by then... Hopefully. Either way, she's a hard worker, doesn't have a bad temper or get mad for no apparent reason... She treats me like a king.... My kids adore her. I have known her daughter for a couple of years and saw her daughter almost daily for a couple of years before we started dating, so I KNEW her WELL. My daughter really likes my wife and her daughter. So far I have a super relationship. Yes, I love the old girl, too. LOL.
I did think long and hard on it--- maybe I'm some kind of person who "has to have somebody"...... Well, I had dated several women after my last ex gf and never wanted to get married. Even had one very beautiful woman that wanted to marry me if I moved to her city and I could even work for her making more than I'm making now. Super nice, good person, also. It just wasn't in the cards. So I don't think I'm a guy that has to be married. But I do like having a family. 

As far as the OP, I was married 14 years, and together 18. There was never more than 4 days between sex. It was always good. We were having sex every night up until the day she left/ was asked to leave. (only because she was sexting multiple other dudes and getting all fired up for some sex)....  Other than that, whenever I wanted which was every third night or so, sometimes more or less. Whenever she wanted as well. And she wanted a lot. There are PLENTY of women in their 40's who want sex every night or really often, no matter how many hours they work.

Enough of the thread jack.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes I totally agree with you, the kids are a nightmare my wife will only have sex with me if the kids are in bed asleep or we are alone ie kids at school or with grandparents, I know she has the big 40 quickly approaching and I try to avoid talking about it, I am in the process of booking a holiday for her birthday, she took me to Rome for my 40th last year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I think there's a darned good chance that she may have just lost her drive. Not much she or you can do about that...
But.......... She should be willing to give you some kind of attention if she loves you. If you're getting that little sex, she shouldn't have a hard time taking care of your needs.....
I've read a lot about women's sex drives stopping after kids..... That totally sux.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes I believe so, unless the 22 years we have been together I have forgotten, I have thought in the past that she feels like she missed out on dating other men as she was only 15 and I was 17 when we started dating she turns 39 this year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I'm curious about what will happen when you give her a back rub tomorrow evening. If it leads to a nice night, then enjoy it, but remember that it may take another very special event for it to happen again.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

uhtred said:


> "through better and through worse, until death do us part". Not a lot of loopholes in that one.
> 
> I agree that there is an argument that her refusing sex is violating her oath, but its not clear whether that frees him from his oath.
> 
> ...


And some women aren't going to want sex with their LTR partner (beta or otherwise) because the New Romance Energy has worn off and yet, after divorce, they'll want sex with their new beta boyfriend.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Steve1000 said:


> I'm curious about what will happen when you give her a back rub tomorrow evening. If it leads to a nice night, then enjoy it, but remember that it may take another very special event for it to happen again.


I'll keep you all updated 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

I just listened to a great Ted talk 




As a woman, what I took from it (among other things) is that sex makes you want sex. In other words, we women tend to feel we should be in the mood before sex, but this sex therapist says having sex will put you in the mood. It's just like the gym - just get started and you will be fine. 

Anyway, when I was working and raising kids, sex was the last thing I thought of at the end of the day. Maybe try to carve out time for it. Someone once told us to schedule it - to just do it at a scheduled time and then you will want to do it more. Seems to match what this sex therapist is saying. 

Good luck.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes I totally agree with you, the kids are a nightmare my wife will only have sex with me if the kids are in bed asleep or we are alone ie kids at school or with grandparents, I know she has the big 40 quickly approaching and I try to avoid talking about it, I am in the process of booking a holiday for her birthday, she took me to Rome for my 40th last year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Sounds like a great idea...ship her off! What do you plan on doing while she's gone? :grin2:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

NickyT said:


> I just listened to a great Ted talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVgzOyHVcj4
> 
> As a woman, what I took from it (among other things) is that sex makes you want sex. In other words, we women tend to feel we should be in the mood before sex, but this sex therapist says having sex will put you in the mood. It's just like the gym - just get started and you will be fine.
> 
> ...


I'm a spontaneous guy. My wife is not spontaneous. So it ended up working well for us that we would schedule sex dates. She was able to prepare mentally, rather than having it show up as just another pop-up requirement on her time and energy. It helped her far more than it killed my mood, so overall it was of benefit. Not only was she more likely to follow through on a preplanned date, she was more likely to enjoy it once she did. 

Spontaneity is great fun, but it's not the only valid way to find your way into the bedroom.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

When this dynamic becomes really entrenched it often requires a whole paradigm shift in thinking and behaving on the partner who is lobbying for more sex for change to happen. Problem for most folks like OP is they're just trying to make little tweaks here and there within the existing paradigm. That's not going to work. 

Also, a lot of guys that find themselves in this position just don't have it in them to make a paradigm shift because it goes against their nature. So they end up in the same situation year after year, decade after decade. I'm honestly not sure how helpful advice can be in these situations. That's not to say people shouldn't try to be helpful though.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

It is not 'the talk', it is many many talks on a regular basis until you finally get through to her that you are unhappy due to the relentlessly sucky sex life.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Townes said:


> When this dynamic becomes really entrenched it often requires a whole paradigm shift in thinking and behaving on the partner who is lobbying for more sex for change to happen. Problem for most folks like OP is they're just trying to make little tweaks here and there within the existing paradigm. That's not going to work.
> 
> Also, a lot of guys that find themselves in this position just don't have it in them to make a paradigm shift because it goes against their nature. So they end up in the same situation year after year, decade after decade. I'm honestly not sure how helpful advice can be in these situations. That's not to say people shouldn't try to be helpful though.


I really don't know what to do, it's hard for me to change what with kids, work my wife's work, the only reason my wife works full time is that we're saving for a bigger house.
As soon as we get our new house she will go back part time and maybe she won't be so tired.

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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Whoa there girls put the pitchforks down, I do help and I also work full time, I cook every meal even if she's been home all day I do, do the housework, All the maintenance of the house like fitting a whole new shower on the weekend.
> I clean the kitchen and I do the ironing when it's my turn, I get the kids school lunches ready before I go to work at 5am
> And also get their uniforms ready if my wife is on nights,And like tonight I will help my kids with their homework when my wife goes to work.
> Oh and I do the washing and drying as well so before you label me as a 1950s chauvinistic Pig I do my 50% of chores around the house and more.
> ...


you are doing too much already, fwiw


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> As soon as we get our new house she will go back part time and maybe she won't be so tired.


She won't be as tired, but that doesn't mean she'll be more in the mood for sex. She'll likely find something else to fill her time. From the many threads on this problem, it seems there are two most likely outcomes:

1. You two come to some sort of understanding about sex where she commits to making it happen even if she doesn't have the desire. Often called duty sex, it can range from a boring chore to something she lovingly gives because she wants you to be happy.

2. You get divorced and get wildly hot sex from someone new, but deal with all the issues of a new relationship and step children. Plus, the hot sex phase may only be at the start of the relationship, so there's no guarantee of a long-term relationship.

There are also some short-term solutions. You could get really fit and handsome. You could be alpha. You could swing. But they may just work while it's new and exciting. Once the newness wears off, it will likely slow back down.

Like I said earlier, based on your situation, I think you need to come to some sort of negotiated agreement to ensure intimacy happens.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

OP - there's a real stench of defeat and acceptance in your tone. I understand it but you need to get that this doormat mentality is probably at the root of the problem. You sound like a good guy who deserves better. Good for you on opening up the lines of communication but honestly have never seen this work anywhere. All the extra work you put in, talking about needs and feelings...it just lowers her respect. And that's a desire killer. You simply can't negotiate, guilt trip or beg your way into a better fulfilling sex life...

Others have said it so i'll just join the choir - you should strongly consider a soft 180 and reading up (NNMNG, Married Red Pill, etc.) I'd put a pause on solving your sex life and first focus on you. The great news is that you'll win either way and will be better for it. Self-improvement is a great thing, never to be stopped. It's easy to get in a rut with life and it's demands and forget who you are and who you can be. Get to it and if you stick with it I bet your wife will come around on her own. And it will be genuine and lasting when it does. 

Good luck.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@Lonelygent1977: I am you, 15 years older and ten years farther down the sexless marriage road. You want a low risk / low change solution. No such solution exists. If you are not willing to make changes and take risks, then nothing will change and ten years from now you will be ten years further into a sexless marriage. That is the core issue. Are you willing to take risk and make changes?

Full disclosure: I am not. And I hate myself. Don't be me. If you cannot take the risk, then stop worrying about sex. You objectively do not deserve any and likely won't get much. Neither do I. Instead, focus on other areas of life where you have a chance to succeed. Focus on a hobby. Take all that energy from sexual deprivation and accomplish something grand. Make something. Build something. Pick a category in the Guinness Book of World Records and set the new record. Do not give in to depression, failure and worthlessness. I did. Over time it is much worse than sexlessness. You have been warned.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

The more I read, the more I see a person allowing someone else total control. She doesn't like this, she doesn't like that. When this happens she will be more able, willing capable whatever. Stop ceding so much control over to her and start advocating for yourself. And if that means she doesn't like it, to f*cking bad! As others have said you have been weak, continue to be weak and will likely continue to be weak. Stop being a door mat and take control of your life.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

Holdingontoit said:


> @Lonelygent1977: I am you, 15 years older and ten years farther down the sexless marriage road. You want a low risk / low change solution. No such solution exists. If you are not willing to make changes and take risks, then nothing will change and ten years from now you will be ten years further into a sexless marriage. That is the core issue. Are you willing to take risk and make changes?
> 
> Full disclosure: I am not. And I hate myself. Don't be me. If you cannot take the risk, then stop worrying about sex. You objectively do not deserve any and likely won't get much. Neither do I. Instead, focus on other areas of life where you have a chance to succeed. Focus on a hobby. Take all that energy from sexual deprivation and accomplish something grand. Make something. Build something. Pick a category in the Guinness Book of World Records and set the new record. Do not give in to depression, failure and worthlessness. I did. Over time it is much worse than sexlessness. You have been warned.


Really helpful to have that kind of honesty and self-awareness here. Thanks.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I really don't know what to do, it's hard for me to change what with kids, work my wife's work, the only reason my wife works full time is that we're saving for a bigger house.
> As soon as we get our new house she will go back part time and maybe she won't be so tired.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


To change entrenched behavior you have to reward the desired behavior and consequence the undesired behavior. Most guys like yourself trip over themselves to do the first part but are completely incapable of the second part. Hence, no change. The more entrenched a behavior is the more of it you'll have to do.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Well guys I finally did it, I had the talk with my wife about our sex life, I told her how we haven't been intimate in the last 4 weeks and that I was depressed and thought she might be having an affair as she has been rejecting my every move on her.
> She told me that with working full time and looking after the kids and housework the last thing on her mind was having sex with me and that she just wants to rest when in bed and that she hasn't been feeling well for the last 2 weeks but kept it to herself and battled on.
> I told her that she must tell me when she's not well and I would go up a gear and take some of the load off of her the best i can ie kids baths etc so she can rest, when I said about her having an affair she laughed jokingly saying when would I have time for that and that I'm stuck with her and I believed her.
> Also I said to her that when she turns me down I feel rejected and hurt and that if she's feeling horny she should let me know ie pinching my bum etc instead of me being a mindreader, she said that it wasn't really her but she did say that tomorrow night I should give her a back massage as it's gets her in the mood.
> ...


How do you initiate? What do you do to turn her on? What do you look like - fit?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The best sex in the entire world is that that comes through open and honest dialogue and communication ~ and certainly never through "mind-reading!"*


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> How do you initiate? What do you do to turn her on? What do you look like - fit?


Normally I kiss her then caress her back and bum she loves me being forceful when I grab her bum, I'm a big chap 6ft4in 200 lbs and she's only 5ft 1in so my hand fits one of her butt cheeks, then I'll go down on her till she pulls me up or cums. 
I'm a fairly fit chap I drive a truck for fedex so I do alot of heavy lifting and walking so I'm physicly fit I've got a little belly but I have had that since I were 13, I'm no brad pit but I do with what I got, I wear nice clothes and take care of my hair, I use good Hugo boss Cologne.
Most of the time I'm a polar opposite to my wife who is an outdoors girl so most of the time she's in horse jodhpurs and is covered in mud from riding the horse.



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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So she has energy to ride a horse but not her husband?


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> So she has energy to ride a horse but not her husband?


Exactly 

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Shes not tired. She’s disinterested. 

You have some tough choices to make.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

You get what you deserve. Stop making excuses, start listening, stop pandering and be a man. You may not get it from her. But she isn't interested in you anyways, except for your servitude anyways. Either that or get used to it. Maybe next time she will let you watch her have sex with another man.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Normally I kiss her then caress her back and bum she loves me being forceful when I grab her bum, I'm a big chap 6ft4in 200 lbs and she's only 5ft 1in so my hand fits one of her butt cheeks, then I'll go down on her till she pulls me up or cums.
> I'm a fairly fit chap I drive a truck for fedex so I do alot of heavy lifting and walking so I'm physicly fit I've got a little belly but I have had that since I were 13, I'm no brad pit but I do with what I got, I wear nice clothes and take care of my hair, I use good Hugo boss Cologne.
> Most of the time I'm a polar opposite to my wife who is an outdoors girl so most of the time she's in horse jodhpurs and is covered in mud from riding the horse.


Hmmm ok, so what happens when she turns you down? How does she turn you down? Does she move your hand away? Have you tried non-sexual touches? How does she respond?

At times non-sexual touches as a prelude to build anticipation helps.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm ok, so what happens when she turns you down? How does she turn you down? Does she move your hand away? Have you tried non-sexual touches? How does she respond?
> 
> At times non-sexual touches as a prelude to build anticipation helps.


Normally she would turn me down by saying she tired or that I have work in the morning.

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Shes not tired. She’s disinterested.
> 
> You have some tough choices to make.


I'd read this until it sinks in and then act accordingly.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I have such conflicting thoughts when I read these posts. That you communicate honestly seems like is the right thing to do. But what, exactly, is the most effective communication. I feel that sometimes wives unwittingly give the wrong information about the whys for the decrease in sex. Assuming the courtship and early marriage was full on sexy time, then a subsequent decrease or removal of desire is caused by something... usually not what wives think or are willing to say. What is said, tired, need more romance... are likely true, but they are not the root cause of the lack of desire. Really, can she safely say I'm just not that fired up by you and would rather ride my horse without ripping your ego out worse than it already is? 

Here's the rub. Husband doubles down on the household and child management, schedules more dinners and romantic candlelight bs... and guess what she winds up thinking? All he thinks of is Sex! It is all quid pro quo! 

It can be hard to pin point the exact root cause of the diminishing of desire. DH and I have been married for a quarter of a century and are still very much attracted to each other. But it can be hard to "bring it" in the context of time, past resentment (even those which have been lovingly put away .. forget the unresolved ones). In poly speak there is such a thing as new relationship energy. It is a real thing. This stuff is just easier with new people. 

So what to do? I would start with making it clear that you are not going to stay in a sexless marriage AND MEAN IT. Then don't treat the issue as one for you alone to solve by jumping through hoops by which it is clear that sex is on HER terms only when the Good Boy has done everything that needs to get done. Establish on principle that a healthy sex life is part of a healthy marriage, and go FROM THERE.

My 2 cents.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So, how did the evening post talk go?


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> So, how did the evening post talk go?


We haven't had it she worked last night so when I came home from work we had a kiss and a cuddle and she went straight out to work.
She's home tonight so we will talk then.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Just a general fact. Horsewomen make crap wives and GFs. They feed all their energy into their equine passion and leave nothing for their husbands. Most I know are multi-divorcees.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I agree with almost all of of this. The problem is the last bit, that despite being very unhappy, many people actually are willing to sty in a sexless marriage - for children, or other reasons. They really can't say that they won't because if their bluff is called, then they have lost badly.

Sometimes there is no fix. If you have a partner who doesn't want sex, there may be nothing to do except leave, and if you won't leave, you will be sexless for the rest of your life. Sucks. 




NobodySpecial said:


> I have such conflicting thoughts when I read these posts. That you communicate honestly seems like is the right thing to do. But what, exactly, is the most effective communication. I feel that sometimes wives unwittingly give the wrong information about the whys for the decrease in sex. Assuming the courtship and early marriage was full on sexy time, then a subsequent decrease or removal of desire is caused by something... usually not what wives think or are willing to say. What is said, tired, need more romance... are likely true, but they are not the root cause of the lack of desire. Really, can she safely say I'm just not that fired up by you and would rather ride my horse without ripping your ego out worse than it already is?
> 
> Here's the rub. Husband doubles down on the household and child management, schedules more dinners and romantic candlelight bs... and guess what she winds up thinking? All he thinks of is Sex! It is all quid pro quo!
> 
> ...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Normally she would turn me down by saying she tired or that I have work in the morning.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


How does she say it? Like, with a smile? Is her body stiffened or relaxed when you touch her?

Also, how does she react to non-sexual touches? Do you flirt, tease, play around with her?

Also, do you vary how you initiate? Like, I am assuming what you mentioned isn't only one example correct?

Need details really, so it's easier to read the situation. There's alot of possibilities at this point, trying to narrow it down


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> So she has energy to ride a horse but not her husband?


Have you discussed the fact with her that she prioritizes the horse over you and that she would rather ride the horse than make love to you? This is a real thing. She truly is putting her horse over you. It seems like she is prioritizing a lot of things over you. That is the root issue. She thinks about you only if she has time, but since she doesn't put aside time for you that doesn't happen. It's not going to happen simply by saying she'll spend time with you and have sex with you. She has to change her priorities and her actions to put you at the center of her priorities. If she's unwilling to do that, you should consider what you are going to do about having a wife who values her horse over you.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I agree with almost all of of this. The problem is the last bit, that despite being very unhappy, many people actually are willing to sty in a sexless marriage - for children, or other reasons. They really can't say that they won't because if their bluff is called, then they have lost badly.
> 
> Sometimes there is no fix. If you have a partner who doesn't want sex, there may be nothing to do except leave, and if you won't leave, you will be sexless for the rest of your life. Sucks.


For ME, the notion that the kids are better in an unhappy marriage or a marriage modelling go along to get along are NOT better off. Kids aren't stupid. Someone who consigns their entire life to unhappiness makes no sense to me.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Have you discussed the fact with her that she prioritizes the horse over you and that she would rather ride the horse than make love to you? This is a real thing. She truly is putting her horse over you. It seems like she is prioritizing a lot of things over you. That is the root issue. She thinks about you only if she has time, but since she doesn't put aside time for you that doesn't happen. It's not going to happen simply by saying she'll spend time with you and have sex with you. She has to change her priorities and her actions to put you at the center of her priorities. If she's unwilling to do that, you should consider what you are going to do about having a wife who values her horse over you.


How is that going to play, though? It is a mighty tough thing for the OP. But it is true. She does value her horse over him. What is the likely outcome of asking her to change her priority? Instead of having a room mate, he will have an antagonist.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Just a general fact. Horsewomen make crap wives and GFs. They feed all their energy into their equine passion and leave nothing for their husbands. Most I know are multi-divorcees.


This.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> How does she say it? Like, with a smile? Is her body stiffened or relaxed when you touch her?
> 
> Also, how does she react to non-sexual touches? Do you flirt, tease, play around with her?
> 
> ...


She's normally relaxed and says it nicely, she's never mean or cold to me.
out of the bedroom we are very close always cuddling a kiss here or there.
I'm restricted on how I initiate as she will only do it in the bedroom if the kids are home so 9 times out of 10 that's the only place I can do it.
But I would love some pointers as I'm not greatly experienced as I was 17 when we got together and I've just turned 41 so the only other women I've been with were just girls really.

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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> How is that going to play, though? It is a mighty tough thing for the OP. But it is true. She does value her horse over him. What is the likely outcome of asking her to change her priority? Instead of having a room mate, he will have an antagonist.


Herein lies the problem.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> She's normally relaxed and says it nicely, she's never mean or cold to me.
> out of the bedroom we are very close always cuddling a kiss here or there.
> I'm restricted on how I initiate as she will only do it in the bedroom if the kids are home so 9 times out of 10 that's the only place I can do it.
> But I would love some pointers as I'm not greatly experienced as I was 17 when we got together and I've just turned 41 so the only other women I've been with were just girls really.
> ...


Hmmm, there's still hope.

Your responsibilities to your work, hobbies, and children can complicate things, but try to use it to your advantage, like; try to sneak in a few non-sexual touches during the day or in the breaks you have with the kids, like; go up behind her, kiss her neck, whisper something sweet to her ear, walk away. Tease her, in other words. Goal is to build some anticipation and tension, have her think about it, fantasize about it. If you did it right, you'll find her much more flirty and horny by the time you two do have time together.

It's challenging with your schedule, which I think is the primary issue. However not all hope is lost.

Also, how did the back rub go? If it didn't work, I don't think it would but that's just me (since she suggested it, if you do it, it's just a big message "I want sex, look what I'm doing for you" ... which isn't so sexy IMO) - try not to have such a straight-forward talk about sex again.

Also, like @dadstartingover mentioned: 


dadstartingover said:


> "The Talk" has never resulted in spontaneous arousal. After all... that's really what you want, right? You don't want "Oh, okay... I guess I'll have sex with you." You want her to bite her lip and throw herself at you because she really wants you. When you sit down and chat, you're actually pushing that spontaneous/primal arousal further away.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Again, mostly agree, but individual situations are complicated. Often other parts of the marriage are good even if the sex is bad. Some sexless marriages are bad in a way that is obvious to kids, for others things can look fine. 

In general I think you are right. 



NobodySpecial said:


> For ME, the notion that the kids are better in an unhappy marriage or a marriage modelling go along to get along are NOT better off. Kids aren't stupid. Someone who consigns their entire life to unhappiness makes no sense to me.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Just a general fact. Horsewomen make crap wives and GFs. They feed all their energy into their equine passion and leave nothing for their husbands. Most I know are multi-divorcees.


I hate to play into stereotypes, but that has been my observation as well.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Herein lies the problem.


Yup.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Again, mostly agree, but individual situations are complicated. Often other parts of the marriage are good even if the sex is bad.


YMMV clearly. But this strikes me as a bizzarre stand point unless one does not really think that sex is fundamental to a marriage.



> Some sexless marriages are bad in a way that is obvious to kids, for others things can look fine.


I suppose that is ok if fine is what you are going for.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I suspect as others do, this wife of OP's has no real intention to make any changes. Therefore she won't.
Sad......


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> YMMV clearly. But this strikes me as a bizzarre stand point unless one does not really think that sex is fundamental to a marriage.
> 
> I suppose that is ok if fine is what you are going for.


Well, marriage may mean different things. In many marriages people settle for the convenience. Cheaters are very common and it's the norm unfortunately even today. Those who stay loyal, out of principle, suffer the most. I'm thinking Uhtred is just mentioning how it is.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Whoa there girls put the pitchforks down, I do help and I also work full time, I cook every meal even if she's been home all day I do, do the housework, All the maintenance of the house like fitting a whole new shower on the weekend.
> I clean the kitchen and I do the ironing when it's my turn, I get the kids school lunches ready before I go to work at 5am
> And also get their uniforms ready if my wife is on nights,And like tonight I will help my kids with their homework when my wife goes to work.
> Oh and I do the washing and drying as well so before you label me as a 1950s chauvinistic Pig I do my 50% of chores around the house and more.
> ...


You sound like a good husband, doing his share at the job and at home. 

I hope the issue you came here with gets fixed. Is her explanation true? Has she only been "too tired" for the last two weeks, or has it been going on longer than that?

What if you pick up more of her work and she is still too tired? 

The two of you might have to get more creative to get her mind in the mood---like spend a night at a bed and breakfast while a family member or sitter spends the night with the children. 

Caring for small children is exhausting, and can do a number on a woman's libido and feelings of sexiness.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> You sound like a good husband, doing his share at the job and at home.
> 
> I hope the issue you came here with gets fixed. Is her explanation true? Has she only been "too tired" for the last two weeks, or has it been going on longer than that?
> 
> ...


Many a man has tried hard to lighten his wife's load... and not just a as a barter for more sex, but purely out of love and concern that she may live her best life. ... and to absolutely no avail. 

I don't recommend doing this with any hope of improvement. But it can go a long way in finding out if she genuinely is "too tired" or if that's just an excuse for not wanting sex with you in the first place. You free up more of her time and energy and see what she does with it. May just go to the horses.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Well, marriage may mean different things. In many marriages people settle for the convenience. Cheaters are very common and it's the norm unfortunately even today. Those who stay loyal, out of principle, suffer the most. I'm thinking Uhtred is just mentioning how it is.


You hear about "how it is" being a form of abuse against the poor husband. How it is is a CHOICE.

ETA: Not an easy one, but a choice nonetheless.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> Caring for small children is exhausting, and can do a number on a woman's libido and feelings of sexiness.


The fact is that she has too many things going on in her life to make sex a priority. She puts her horse on the same level as her family and above her sex life. She would certainly have time for sex if she would be willing to give something up, but I have a feeling she sees her equestrian hobby as a part of her and is unwilling to give it up for anything.



Evinrude58 said:


> I suspect as others do, this wife of OP's has no real intention to make any changes. Therefore she won't.
> Sad......


If there is no indication that she has rearranged her routine to include time for her husband then nothing has changed. There has to be clear and measurable difference in how she uses her time. She may believe that she wants more sex, but if she hasn't arranged her life in a manner that allows for it, it's not going to happen.

She may feel like she wants to add sex, but it will require more than will power to be available to her husband. It will require measurable changes in how she uses her time outside the bedroom. If you don't see that happening, you are not going to see more sex happen either.

When people start a family, children take up a huge amount of time and energy. People with time consuming hobbies either have to set aside their hobbies or their family time suffers. In my opinion, family time includes sex with one's spouse.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The fact is that the OP is allowing his own deprioritization without challenge.

He is allowing his wife to be comfortable in his discomfort.

Until he comes to terms with this single common denominator, nothing will change.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> The fact is that the OP is allowing his own deprioritization without challenge.
> 
> He is allowing his wife to be comfortable in his discomfort.
> 
> Until he comes to terms with this single common denominator, nothing will change.


When the kids arrived, something had to go. It was their sex life. This was not a decision that he agreed with, but he hasn't done anything to make it known that he will not continue to support hobbies that are not in the best interest of the family.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Just a general fact. Horsewomen make crap wives and GFs. They feed all their energy into their equine passion and leave nothing for their husbands. Most I know are multi-divorcees.


 This has been my observation as well. 
"_They feed all their energy into their equine passion_" as well as their finances. Horses can burn through Benjamins like a forest fire. 
It's like a racecar you have to feed.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> The fact is that she has too many things going on in her life to make sex a priority. She puts her horse on the same level as her family and above her sex life. She would certainly have time for sex if she would be willing to give something up, but I have a feeling she sees her equestrian hobby as a part of her and is unwilling to give it up for anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's something I do that the OP might want to discuss with his wife. I live a very busy and active life and am always having to rearrange my priorities and time. The way I choose what to do/prioritize is I have a written down statement of the man I want to be...a life purpose essentially. When I need to cut activities I look at that life purpose and ask whether the activities further me towards being that man or hinder me. Then I reallocate more time or cancel activities based on whether it furthers my life goals. If the OP's wife could sit down and make a list of her values and who she wants to be, she might then decide to reprioritize and make time for a sex life with her H.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> The fact is that she has too many things going on in her life to make sex a priority. She puts her horse on the same level as her family and above her sex life. She would certainly have time for sex if she would be willing to give something up, but I have a feeling she sees her equestrian hobby as a part of her and is unwilling to give it up for anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sadly your right I believe if I said it's me or the horse she would probably choose me but and it's a big but we would not be together for long, horses are her life and she would make my life a living hell.

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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Sadly your right I believe if I said it's me or the horse she would probably choose me but and it's a big but we would not be together for long, horses are her life and she would make my life a living hell.


My guess is that she is in denial about this. I don't think she is lying to you when she recognizes that you have needs that she can meet, but she doesn't want to admit that she is putting her horses above you and has been unwilling to change that.

I agree with @Bananapeel that she needs to access her priorities and to put it on paper so she can clearly see what's going on. She may eventually admit that she is putting the horses before you and make a conscious choice to do so or she may recognize that some things have to change.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Sadly your right I believe if I said it's me or the horse she would probably choose me but and it's a big but we would not be together for long, horses are her life and she would make my life a living hell.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


It's not about having to choose. It's about having balance in one's life. If she didn't want to sacrifice some of her hobby-time to be a decent wife, she never should have married you in the first place. You need to call her on this. You are not some item on a shelf that she takes down and uses when she needs it, then shoves it to the back of the shelf when she's done. 

Her equestrian pursuits should be one of those side hobbies that enhances her life, not be the center of her life.

My take is that your wife is a very strong willed and selfish person. She has spent much of her life learning how to control 1,200 pound animals. Controlling an accommodating nice guy like you is a cakewalk for her.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I didn't catch the part about her horse hobby. Add to that, marriage and then children....something has to give, as she can't do it all.

I can't imagine her setting aside her horses for many years while she keeps her marriage healthy, and simultaneously raises a family.

Well, OP, you will probably have to make some tough decisions in the near (or distant if you put it off) if she doesn't make good choices regarding time management so she can raise her marriage (sex) higher on her list or priorities.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Sadly your right I believe if I said it's me or the horse she would probably choose me but and it's a big but we would not be together for long, *horses are her life* and she would make my life a living hell.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


That's a revealing statement.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Having and keeping a horse is equivalent to having another child. In terms of time and money they are very demanding.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> It's not about having to choose. It's about having balance in one's life. If she didn't want to sacrifice some of her hobby-time to be a decent wife, she never should have married you in the first place. You need to call her on this. You are not some item on a shelf that she takes down and uses when she needs it, then shoves it to the back of the shelf when she's done.
> 
> Her equestrian pursuits should be one of those side hobbies that enhances her life, not be the center of her life.
> 
> My take is that your wife is a very strong willed and selfish person. She has spent much of her life learning how to control 1,200 pound animals. Controlling an accommodating nice guy like you is a cakewalk for her.


Your right she's always been a selfish person as she was an adopted only child so she got anything she asked for.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Is your wife in any kind of competitive horse activities?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Having and keeping a horse is equivalent to having another child. In terms of time and money they are very demanding.


Actually far more expensive than a child. They require separate boarding. Depending on where, that can be a lot of dough. They eat waaaayyy more than junior. If you have health insurance with full family coverage, adding a kid adds no new expense, but it doesn't cover veterinary care for a horse. If you wish to ride your horse someplace other than the exact same location where you pasture/stable it, you have to have a trailer... and a rig capable of pulling that trailer with horse inside. 

Horse racing was called "The Sport of Kings," but mere horse ownership should be called "The Hobby of Kings." It is a MASSIVE money sink, as well as a huge time sink. 

Unless the house is paid off, there are no car payments, zero credit card debt, and junior's college fund and our IRAs fully funded every year, I couldn't imagine such an indulgence. My family and my future definitely come first.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Having and keeping a horse is equivalent to having another child. In terms of time and money they are very demanding.


Very true if we didn't have it I could afford my midlife crisis and get a bright red Porsche lol

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Is your wife in any kind of competitive horse activities?


Yes but not to a high level and she hasn't done it for a while as the horse has been lame 

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Actually far more expensive than a child. They require separate boarding. Depending on where, that can be a lot of dough. They eat waaaayyy more than junior. If you have health insurance with full family coverage, adding a kid adds no new expense, but it doesn't cover veterinary care for a horse. If you wish to ride your horse someplace other than the exact same location where you pasture/stable it, you have to have a trailer... and a rig capable of pulling that trailer with horse inside.
> 
> Horse racing was called "The Sport of Kings," but mere horse ownership should be called "The Hobby of Kings." It is a MASSIVE money sink, as well as a huge time sink.
> 
> Unless the house is paid off, there are no car payments, zero credit card debt, and junior's college fund and our IRAs fully funded every year, I couldn't imagine such an indulgence. My family and my future definitely come first.


Very very true we have a horsebox and a jeep grand Cherokee to tow it, off the top of my head we pay roughly $100 a week to keep it.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Western or English?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Is she in a riding club?


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Is she in a riding club?


No she isnt

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Western or English?


Please elaborate

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Please elaborate
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Dressage, jumping, hunter jumping, Western pleasure, rodeo....what kind of riding does she do?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I want to rule out the possibility she could be having an affair with another person she rides with.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> I didn't catch the part about her horse hobby. Add to that, marriage and then children....something has to give, as she can't do it all.
> 
> I can't imagine her setting aside her horses for many years while she keeps her marriage healthy, and simultaneously raises a family.
> 
> Well, OP, you will probably have to make some tough decisions in the near (or distant if you put it off) if she doesn't make good choices regarding time management so she can raise her marriage (sex) higher on her list or priorities.


I disagree. If the OP's wife WANTED sex with OP, she would FIND the time to do it in. People FIND time for what they want to do. We are getting into ways that she can find time to do a "chore" for the OP. I seriously doubt that will bring any fulfillment to him, even if she started riding him like a horse every night--- if it were done as a "chore".

I do believe that she is unlikely to make the time to have sex with the OP because........ she doesn't want to.

OP is most likely stuck with the sad choice of either finding another woman to be with, or just being celibate, or cheating. I don't think he's the kind of guy to cheat. Might as well learn to love celibacy.
Or........ it sounds like he's working his ass off for her. I think I might choose looking for another woman if I wanted some sex---- and I DO. Just sayin'.....

Sorry OP, you've got quite a quandry. You've talked her about it. Let's see if she makes any changes or what we all expect..... maybe a little for a little while, and back to zero.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Dressage, jumping, hunter jumping, Western pleasure, rodeo....what kind of riding does she do?


Ah ok she does dressage and jumping

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> I want to rule out the possibility she could be having an affair with another person she rides with.


Ah no I don't think so as it's only women that have horses at our yard.

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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Ah no I don't think so as it's only women that have horses at our yard.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Doesn't mean a thing.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree. If the OP's wife WANTED sex with OP, she would FIND the time to do it in. People FIND time for what they want to do. We are getting into ways that she can find time to do a "chore" for the OP. I seriously doubt that will bring any fulfillment to him, even if she started riding him like a horse every night--- if it were done as a "chore".
> 
> I do believe that she is unlikely to make the time to have sex with the OP because........ she doesn't want to.
> 
> ...


You have added your own thoughts or impressions to my post that are not my own.

There are only 24 hours in a day, and people need to sleep/rest for part of that time. She has to make choices of how to spend those hours and get her sleep too. You can't FIND time if all your time is used up and you are exhausted, so you need sleep. You have to *not* do something to create time to do something else. She needs to look at her day, and then prioritize how she is going to spend her waking hours, so her marriage is a priority. If that means less (or no) time with her horse so she has time and energy to enjoy her husband, then so be it.

I said she needed to figure out her priorities to have a healthy marriage. IMO looking at sex as just a "chore" isn't part of a healthy marriage. I didn't say she needed to do the "chore" of sex but to put her marriage higher on the list. Having sex as a chore is not pleasant for either party, so that is not really helping or raising the marriage on the priority scale.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree. If the OP's wife WANTED sex with OP, she would FIND the time to do it in. People FIND time for what they want to do. We are getting into ways that she can find time to do a "chore" for the OP. I seriously doubt that will bring any fulfillment to him, even if she started riding him like a horse every night--- if it were done as a "chore".
> 
> I do believe that she is unlikely to make the time to have sex with the OP because........ she doesn't want to.
> 
> ...


Yes I'm waiting to see what happens, she knows my feelings now, if she dosent give me what I'm craving then well who knows.
I have had women interested in me in the past that I have rejected.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Ah ok she does dressage and jumping
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Expensive hobby. If she rides a warmblood thats a $50,000 to $100,000 horse depending on breed and bloodline. Then the hauling, tack, clothes, boarding....


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> You have added your own thoughts or impressions to my post that are not my own.
> 
> There are only 24 hours in a day, and people need to sleep/rest for part of that time. She has to make choices of how to spend those hours and get her sleep too. You can't FIND time if all your time is used up and you are exhausted, so you need sleep. You have to *not* do something to create time to do something else. She needs to look at her day, and then prioritize how she is going to spend her waking hours, so her marriage is a priority. If that means less (or no) time with her horse so she has time and energy to enjoy her husband, then so be it.
> 
> I said she needed to figure out her priorities to have a healthy marriage. IMO looking at sex as just a "chore" isn't part of a healthy marriage. I didn't say she needed to do the "chore" of sex but to put her marriage higher on the list. Having sex as a chore is not pleasant for either party, so that is not really helping or raising the marriage on the priority scale.


I'd like to add that if we are on holiday she does turn into a different person we have sex pretty much every night.

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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Expensive hobby. If she rides a warmblood thats a $50,000 to $100,000 horse depending on breed and bloodline. Then the hauling, tack, clothes, boarding....


We don't spend quite that much but its alot

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes I'm waiting to see what happens, she knows my feelings now, if she dosent give me what I'm craving then well who knows.
> I have had women interested in me in the past that I have rejected.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Good attitude. Give her a chance. She is not, however, the only woman in the world. Don't put 'em on a pedestal. I did. Not again.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes I'm waiting to see what happens, she knows my feelings now, if she dosent give me what I'm craving then well who knows.
> I have had women interested in me in the past that I have rejected.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


It isnt just a craving or her scratching your itch. You are both entitled to have your sexual needs met. That is the whole idea of the marital contract. Sex is a requirement of marriage. 

She is violating the contract.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> We don't spend quite that much but its alot
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Good. Some people who do jumping piss away hundreds of thousands each year.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> It isnt just a craving or her scratching your itch. You are both entitled to have your sexual needs met. That is the whole idea of the marital contract. Sex is a requirement of marriage.
> 
> She is violating the contract.


Very true


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I'd like to add that if we are on holiday she does turn into a different person we have sex pretty much every night.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


My God, man!!!! What a huge piece of important info you've left out!!!!!

You may not have as huge of a problem as I thought. Perhaps Aracuia or whatever her name is could be right. 

The thing is, she needs to change some things. You honestly sound like you're taking care of things on your end. 50/50. Not 90/10. She sounds like she's on the good end right now....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> My God, man!!!! What a huge piece of important info you've left out!!!!!
> 
> You may not have as huge of a problem as I thought. Perhaps Aracuia or whatever her name is could be right.
> 
> The thing is, she needs to change some things. You honestly sound like you're taking care of things on your end. 50/50. Not 90/10. She sounds like she's on the good end right now....


Well yeah....

When they are on holiday they have no horses around. He gets to come off the shelf for a while.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Well yeah....
> 
> When they are on holiday they have no horses around. He gets to come off the shelf for a while.


Yes very true more time for me and no work or chores= sex

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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

aine said:


> Great job on communicating your views to her,
> My question would be, if she is working full time also, why aren’t you helping her out more, lack of sex is the only thing to get you to sit up and notice her burden. I think you need to step up your game in a bigger way. Sounds like she’s doing it all with little support.


Those were my thoughts too. I know in my case, I felt the same as the wife of the OP, tried to communicate that to my husband, and failed miserably in getting my feelings across. We're now getting divorced, and lack of contribution by him / lack of sex life was a big contributor.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

And still the more I read, the more I see someone who has simply ceded all control over to someone else and has just become an observer of life. She decides everything and he simply accepts the crumbs she throws his way. OP, I am not busting your balls, but I am telling (as has another poster) that you are walking down a road that is going to get very lonely for you. It makes me sick to have to see another person go thru what I went thru. But my friend, you absolutely are.
When was it that you going to be allowed to give her a back rub? The back rub (oooh boy!) should have happened by now. Has it? Save yourself years of frustration and even more years of self loathing and get out now.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Ynot said:


> And still the more I read, the more I see someone who has simply ceded all control over to someone else and has just become an observer of life. She decides everything and he simply accepts the crumbs she throws his way. OP, I am not busting your balls, but I am telling (as has another poster) that you are walking down a road that is going to get very lonely for you. It makes me sick to have to see another person go thru what I went thru. But my friend, you absolutely are.
> When was it that you going to be allowed to give her a back rub? The back rub (oooh boy!) should have happened by now. Has it? Save yourself years of frustration and even more years of self loathing and get out now.


It's tonight were going out for a meal first, unfortunately with the kids as we don't have a sitter then kids in bed a bit of Netflix then up to bed#massage time

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes very true more time for me and no work or chores= sex
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Uh huh....when she gets around to it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> It's tonight were going out for a meal first, unfortunately with the kids as we don't have a sitter then kids in bed a bit of Netflix then up to bed#massage time
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Guarantee you she conks out.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Expensive hobby. If she rides a warmblood thats a $50,000 to $100,000 horse depending on breed and bloodline. Then the hauling, tack, clothes, boarding....


It's a lame horse so now it's just a hay burner with no value. :rofl:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> It's a lame horse so now it's just a hay burner with no value. :rofl:


They’re still pretty to look at. My dad always said a horse has two careers: working cattle, and then they move on to lawn ornament.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I can only answer for myself, but here is how you can get into a "frog in a pot" scenario.

Dated my wife for about 5 years. Minimal sexual activity, but this was back in the late Cretaceous when it wasn't uncommon for women to want to wait for marraige to have sex. 

Got married - sex was very rare. Knowing what I know now, that would have been a very clear warning. Unfortunately I honestly didn't know at the time that some people have almost no sex drive. I worried about what was wrong with *me*. The sorts of advice people get here - how could I make myself more attractive, more desirable. 

Time goes on, she verbally claims to be very attracted to me. Sometimes we have great sex. Sometimes it is frequent. Things are not that bad, and she is always indicating a desire for more. 

More time goes on, I start to recognize patterns. Start to realize that while *she* believes she wants more sex, she really doesn't. Start to recognize that she likes the *idea* of a great sex life, but not the reality. Lots of soul searching to figure out if I'm at fault - do I suck in bed? Am I unattractive? Does she want sex, but just not with *me*.

By the time I recognize that she just doesn't really want sex, its been 10 years. Have a talk, things get much better - for a while, then fall apart again. Rinse, lather repeat - each time the improvement lasts less time. 

15 years in I realize that I can pressure her into sex with fear of my leaving, but based on her behavior she really doesn't want it. 

So now I'm with a wife who's behavior really hasn't changed. Its not her *fault* that she doesn't feel sexual desire, she wants to feel desire, she loves me - she is just not wired that way. After all this time do I leave her? That would hurt her so badly - and hurt me so badly. 

So I've given up. 


For other people all I can recommend is fix it NOW, or give up. Don't hope it will improve.








NobodySpecial said:


> YMMV clearly. But this strikes me as a bizzarre stand point unless one does not really think that sex is fundamental to a marriage.
> 
> 
> I suppose that is ok if fine is what you are going for.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

.


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> .


Love their wife more than *frequent sex*???
I suspect there are plenty of men (and women) on these boards that love their spouse more than sex...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

A person needs the feel wanted and loved. For a lot of men, we don’t feel loved or wanted in a romantic way, if there’s no sex. 
If OP’s wife is too tired tonight.,.
Might be time to cut bait.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

PretzelLogic said:


> Love their wife more than *frequent sex*???
> I suspect there are plenty of men (and women) on these boards that love their spouse more than sex...


Well Pretzel,

If you've only been reading here since your start date of January 2018, you will be surprised how many husbands (and wives) say they would divorce their spouse if the frequency of sex decreased.

There are posters here who are having frequent sex with their spouse, and say that if they stopped getting it as much they would end the marriage.

Then there are many who only enjoy it once a month or less, yet stay in the marriage because they love their spouse more than they love frequent sex.

Now no sex 6 months??? If it wasn't caused by illness or injury, I would have to seriously consider if I would remain in the marriage, because that would really wear on my self esteem as well as my heart.


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## purplepwr53 (Mar 20, 2018)

I've had this problem with my wife of 27 years. First off she has a low libido and I have a high 1 so its been an issue throughout our marriage-how many times. I've done a lot of research as I suppose you have too. What I have found that works the best and is suggested in many relationship blogs etc. is to put it on the calendar. Yes you lose spontaneity-I lost that when I started wearing a cpap mask to sleep-but if you both can agree to Wed at 7pm, then you lose the feeling of rejection to start with. Find a place for the kids to go for a couple of hours for no interruptions, leave cell phones off and just have a date night. Women have trouble "turning their brain off" even if they look like they are just sitting there watching tv, they are thinking about all the things they have to get done the next day or days to come. They have trouble relaxing when kids are in the house because they are listening for them-like a knock on the door by one is a mood killer- they worry about the kids hearing. So try the "planned time for sex" its something you both have to plan for so you work as a team for that time alone which has all kinds of relationship positives.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Wow, I guess I am one of those people who think that sex is an important aspect of a relationship. My reaction to lack of sex morphed from a feeling of hurt and rejection, to one of semi-acceptance and finally to resentment and depression. I couldn't get past the fact that I KNOW empires have gone to war over sex and that everyday millions of people all over the world are willing to risk fame, fortune, life and limb in order to have sex. The lack of sex destroyed my marriage. It infected all aspects of our life together. I couldn't pretend everything was OK when I knew it wasn't. I don't understand you guys who just come to terms with the lack of sex because of some vow you (both) took so many years ago. A vow, that I might add, is not being fulfilled by your partners.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Read the thread. If the OP rereads this thread from start to finish - he'd see that the problems are obvious and that the horse should go. Considering it's lame, send it to the glue factory...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Read the thread. If the OP rereads this thread from start to finish - he'd see that the problems are obvious and that the horse should go. Considering it's lame, send it to the glue factory...


She has to come to that conclusion on her own. As was suggested earlier, she should sit down and write out her priorities. This is done by first listing what she believes her priorities are then, writing out how much time she actually spends on each item to see what is already given priority and how much time goes into each thing. Adjustments will be made if she wants to make them, but telling her to get rid of her horse is not going to go over well. That is something she will have to see and to change from her heart or any changes she makes will not stick. Further, if she gives up her horse due to pressure from her husband, she will resent her husband the problems will get worse, not better.

Marriage takes two people for it to be healthy and work well, but only one person to destroy it.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You responded to a post that has been deleted. (I'm not implying you are saying anything different from the below)

I don't think you can compare loving your spouse, and loving sex.

Few people would object to leaving a spouse who decided, not to work, not do chores, and who just sits on the sofa watching TV. That doesn't mean that they "value money more than their husband / wife", but that the husband /wife is not doing their part in the marriage. 

Similarly it should not be a choice of spouse or sex. It is completely reasonable to expect both. 




PretzelLogic said:


> Love their wife more than *frequent sex*???
> I suspect there are plenty of men (and women) on these boards that love their spouse more than sex...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I sort of agree, but its not a horse, is a person that they love. 




Plan 9 from OS said:


> Read the thread. If the OP rereads this thread from start to finish - he'd see that the problems are obvious and that the horse should go. Considering it's lame, send it to the glue factory...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> She has to come to that conclusion on her own. As was suggested earlier, she should sit down and write out her priorities. This is done by first listing what she believes her priorities are then, writing out how much time she actually spends on each item to see what is already given priority and how much time goes into each thing. Adjustments will be made if she wants to make them, but telling her to get rid of her horse is not going to go over well. That is something she will have to see and to change from her heart or any changes she makes will not stick. Further, if she gives up her horse due to pressure from her husband, she will resent her husband the problems will get worse, not better.
> 
> *Marriage takes two people for it to be healthy* and work well, but only one person to destroy it.


Based on what we know we can probably assume that:


The OP does not have an equivalent hobby because most of the resources are used on her hobby.
If the OP told his wife that he wants to separate their finances and pay for their share of the costs in this marriage - the horse goes away.
If they divorce - the horse goes away.

The OP is getting royally screwed in this arrangement. Quite honestly, the resentment that you think the wife would feel if she's pressured to give up the horse should be already present in the marriage by the OP. Why he's not upset at this royal screw job is beyond me. I bet if OP wanted to spend huge sums of money joining an exclusive country club, state of the art golf clubs plus take frequent golf vacations - his old lady would nix the idea because there would not be enough resources for him to have this type of hobby and it would be selfish of him to spend all that money on him alone...

His wife sounds like a self centered twat.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree that she sounds not only self-centered, but actually selfish. And I can understand OP feeling frustrated. But if her heart is not in it, change will not last. If they have different priorities in life and she is unwilling to consider his needs, it's time to start evaluating what choices he's going to make to resolve the lack in his life or if he's going to continue to live in a sexless marriage with a woman who puts her horse ahead of him.

I do think that having her see on paper what she is spending her time on and making a list of what she wants her priorities to be it will be eye opening for both of them. Either she will recognize that she is not as committed to the marriage as she thinks she is and she will make adjustments or the OP will probably be making some adjustments of his own.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Just a general fact. Horsewomen make crap wives and GFs. They feed all their energy into their equine passion and leave nothing for their husbands. Most I know are multi-divorcees.


I disagree and reject this! I am a horse loving woman and I am also one hell of a wife and girlfriend, too!

I ride horses to give the guy a break. 

I bring it and hold my own in all areas, especially the bedroom.

I can't just let this go without addressing it. 

I love love love horses, but sex and relationship first. Always!


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> This.


What??? 

Are you serious?


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

OP, your wife clearly does not value your marriage or you as a priority. 

Detach.

180 for you.

Tell her since sex is not important (to her), you plan to outsource it, because it is important to you.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Well we had our massage...didnt go quite to plan..who would have thought.
First she told me off for lighting her Yankee candle then she said my spa music I put on sounded like a game show music, then my daughter came out of her room so I had to sort that, then the washing machine wouldn't stop spinning downstairs so i had to sort that out.
I gave her a nice massage which she really enjoyed and then we had sex or rather I had sex, i went down on her then we did it missionary for a bit she then flipped over and we did it doggy style ...I told her I wanted a bj..silence...i could hear crickets...nothing I thought she was asleep...she probably was but I felt like I was alone anyway there was no interaction from her at all...which to be frank was what I was expecting her to do it was just pity sex, she didn't want it she just was counting down the clock till I came....oh well.




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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Well we had our massage...didnt go quite to plan..who would have thought.
> First she told me off for lighting her Yankee candle then she said my spa music I put on sounded like a game show music.
> I gave her a nice massage and then we had sex or rather I had sex she flipped over and we did it doggy style but I felt like I was alone there was no interaction from her...which to be frank was what I was expecting her to do it was just pity sex, she didn't want it she just was counting down the clock till I came....oh well.
> 
> ...


next time, just walk away. tell her that since she cannot even be bothered to show you even the slightest bit of desire despite trying to make the stars align for her, you aren't interested.

dont have sex with someone who doesn't want it. it cheapens the **** out of it and is degrading for both of you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don’t get how you could reduce yourself to participate in whatever that was. Just unbelievable. 


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

What you are getting is an IV drip of sex. Just enough to keep you in check. 

She got her massage, she got her "tongue lashing" when she should have had a tongue lashing.

You got nothing of value in return, except what amounts to a huge slap in the face.

I've been there. 

**** that bull****!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> What???
> 
> Are you serious?


You must be the exception, WM.

;-)


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don’t get how you could reduce yourself to participate in whatever that was. Just unbelievable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This.

How do you feel about what happened, LG?


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> How do you feel about what happened, LG?


At the time I thought well this is fun there's two of us but only one turned up.
I knew it was going to be like that she had only had a few hours sleep that day and it was late nearly midnight, I've since spoke to my wife about last night she did say she was tired but that the massage was so good it totally relaxed her, we are going to try again tonight but it's my turn she said...should be interesting I wonder if her head will get off the pillow this time.

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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I can't watch this drama unfold. I guess I am just not morbid enough to want to see this trainwreck unfold. So I might just check out of this conversation. OP, I hope you get your balls back and start to stand up for yourself and advocated your own needs. But so far at every turn you simply lick the hand you think feeds you. She didn't like how you lit her candles, she didn't like the music you played. You had to handle the daughter. You had to take care of the washing machine (presumably from a load of laundry that YOU were doing). You went down on her. The one time you asked for something you got crickets. All of this after you plucked up the courage to have a talk over the telephone, not even in person. No, I think I know where this is headed. I am sure we will cross paths again. Probably in the Infidelity or Divorce forums, but not for a while, you seem to relish being treated like a whipped puppy who keeps going back for more.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> next time, just walk away. tell her that since she cannot even be bothered to show you even the slightest bit of desire despite trying to make the stars align for her, you aren't interested.
> 
> dont have sex with someone who doesn't want it. it cheapens the **** out of it and is degrading for both of you.


I see so many parallels with me here sadly. I wanted sex, more of it, I talked of it. She said to keep trying. It seemed like a chore for her and even when we did the once on average, every 2 months, she would sigh and act as if she was agitated. She would look for excuses, she would say, she wish sex didn't have to be such an important part of marriage. 1,000 different excuses. I realize this had to do with attraction to me and the lack of respect and her own selfishness but I thought at the time, she just didn't care about it anymore and was low drive. She would say she was shy, she said since we didn't do it enough, it was hard to get in the mood or in a rhythm. 

This all seemed odd for years because we were extremely active when dating and when first married. She had a lot of partners before me, a lot. I had one ... her.

In May when she re-ignited an affair with a man she had had at least an EA with 9 years ago, it unlocked that side of her that was wild. I saw it in their emails and texts to each other. Hurt so much more because that is wanted I wanted from her but what I got was rejection. I would try, get rejected give up for a month, ball up the resentment and then try again and when I got rejected again, it was a pain like no other. 

Not sure I could have done anything to change but knowing what I know now, with the No More Mr. Nice guy outlook, the ways to actually build attraction (too little too late), maybe I could have woken up what both of us needed and set some damn boundaries along with it but so many years of the same pattern was hard to break.

As the others have said, sadly, they see where this is going and I don't want to see you down that path. The things that will make her the most angry and uncomfortable to you are likely the things that will save this for you. So if it seems hard and unnatural, you will still have to go with it. Don't let this lay, attack now!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don’t get how you could reduce yourself to participate in whatever that was. Just unbelievable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have always had a hard time understand a LOT of the posts from men about sexlessness. Is that really all that is desired? Wife can treat him like total crap as long as he can put his penis in it and ... rock on. If not, then the much vaunted analytical skills of men are not what they seem.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have always had a hard time understand a LOT of the posts from men about sexlessness. Is that really all that is desired? Wife can treat him like total crap as long as he can put his penis in it and ... rock on. If not, then the much vaunted analytical skills of men are not what they seem.


For me sex isn't about getting my end away I can do that anytime I want with my right or left hand.
Sex for me is bonding with another person it's saying I love you I want to be with you.
Which for me at the moment is bleak to say the least, I've read all of the comments posted on here most I agree with my problem is this has been happening now for nearly 20 years im not counting the first 2 as they were awesome, so this is all I know, alot of people on here say ahh leave her divorce her, it's not that easy for one should I leave what are my options well I know for a fact I couldn't afford my own place which would mean moving in with my elderly parents my new girlfriend would dig that wouldn't she, my children my son is 13 my daughter is 10 we have a very happy home we never fight my wife and I, my daughter has said to me not so long ago please don't get divorced dad because a couple of her friends parents have and they were really sad.
I have bought no more Mr nice guy but trying to read it on my phone isn't fun so I'm going to get the paperback version and swot up, I am at a loss with what to do with my wife it maybe that she's a little insecure and that has put her off having sex with me because she has put on a little weight over the last couple of years and she may think that I think she's hideous but that dosent bother me in the slightest but I know that it bothers her but she won't do anything about it she eats garbage most of the time as she's a really fussy eater unlike myself where I like to eat healthy.

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OK, a really sad realization for some (and maybe for me) is that some people are in love with what they wish their partner was, not with what they really are. 

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Do I really love my wife? Is she really the person I want her to be? Or am I loving my fantasy of her - excusing every selfish behavior as an "aberration" from my image of what she is?

I don't know yet, but I think its worth anyone in a situation where their partner feels selfish to consider the issue carefully. 





NobodySpecial said:


> I have always had a hard time understand a LOT of the posts from men about sexlessness. Is that really all that is desired? Wife can treat him like total crap as long as he can put his penis in it and ... rock on. If not, then the much vaunted analytical skills of men are not what they seem.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

uhtred said:


> I understand where you are coming from but it sounds like in this, and in many other cases, he is already doing his share.
> 
> In my case my wife was laid off a few months ago. Despite her no longer working and my still doing 1/2 the house chores, and working a full time job, she is still too "tired" or "doesn't have time" for sex.
> 
> ...


This is pretty much the case. If the desire isn't really there and you don't like sex, you are always going to get the I'm tired or not feeling well excuse. I could be dead tired or stressed and still want to do it. It is what it is. A lot of us get to the point where you don't really no what to do or you give up.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have always had a hard time understand a LOT of the posts from men about sexlessness. Is that really all that is desired? Wife can treat him like total crap as long as he can put his penis in it and ... rock on. If not, then the much vaunted analytical skills of men are not what they seem.


Unfortunately many men put those much vaunted analytical skills on the back burner by trying to adhere to the idea of "happy wife, happy life". Then it becomes a frog in the pot scenario. By the time the water is boiling (ie no sex) it is often too late. The sad reality is that few men would ever marry at all given the state of modern marriage in the western world had they been exercising those vaunted analytical skills all along.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

This last encounter almost sounds like she is trying to use negative reinforcement: making sex such a bad experience for you that you stop expecting it.

What would happen if you told her, "I don't like having sex with a corpse. This feels too much like necrophilia." 

Serious question.

Also, if this ever happens again, you need to get up immediately, put your clothes on and walk out. Tell her you will not participate in one sided sex as you say, "YUCK! No thanks!"

She needs to know this is "YUCKY."


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Ynot said:


> Unfortunately many men put those much vaunted analytical skills on the back burner by trying to adhere to the idea of "happy wife, happy life". Then it becomes a frog in the pot scenario. By the time the water is boiling (ie no sex) it is often too late. The sad reality is that few men would ever marry at all given the state of modern marriage in the western world had they been exercising those vaunted analytical skills all along.


If I could do it all again knowing what i know now I wouldn't get married again that's for sure.

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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Ynot said:


> By the time the water is boiling (ie no sex) it is often too late.


Too late to leave? 

It's never too late to leave!

Unless you are literally dead. Then, yeah, it's too late.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

OP, we teach/train people how to treat us.

If you accept this sex life, you are teaching/training her that it is acceptable to you. 

You must teach/train her that it isn't.

If you are not willing to do so, then, you just have to live with the consequences.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

WildMustang said:


> This last encounter almost sounds like she is trying to use negative reinforcement: making sex such a bad experience for you that you stop expecting it.
> 
> What would happen if you told her, "I don't like having sex with a corpse. This feels too much like necrophilia."
> 
> ...


I really don't know what she would say she would probably be shocked and sad, and amazed that it came out of my mouth as I would never do that as it's not in my character.

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

WildMustang said:


> I disagree and reject this! I am a horse loving woman and I am also one hell of a wife and girlfriend, too!
> 
> I ride horses to give the guy a break.
> 
> ...


Would you give them up to save your marriage?


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Would you give them up to save your marriage?


Hell yeah, I would! And I would not think twice about it. He wouldn't even have to ask me. I'd just do it. And I LOVE horses! But I love men more!

Men before horses!

Always!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> This last encounter almost sounds like she is trying to use negative reinforcement: making sex such a bad experience for you that you stop expecting it.
> 
> What would happen if you told her, "I don't like having sex with a corpse. This feels too much like necrophilia."
> 
> ...


This response, while crass, really hits home. 

I would keep it in the mental Rolodex if I were you, LG.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I really don't know what she would say she would probably be shocked and sad, and amazed that it came out of my mouth as I would never do that as it's not in my character.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


This is the majority of your problem. 

Conflict avoidance is exactly what got you where you are.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> This response, while crass, really hits home.
> 
> I would keep it in the mental Rolodex if I were you, LG.


I'll keep it in mind

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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> This response, while crass, really hits home.
> 
> I would keep it in the mental Rolodex if I were you, LG.


I agree. It is crass. But this situation may call for it.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I really don't know what she would say she would probably be shocked and sad, and amazed that it came out of my mouth as I would never do that as it's not in my character.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


That is EXACTLY the point of saying it -- it is unlike you, and would shock her into thinking how serious this is for you. It being unlike you is a strong point -- being LIKE you hasn't worked so far, so...


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> Too late to leave?
> 
> It's never too late to leave!
> 
> Unless you are literally dead. Then, yeah, it's too late.


No, not too late to leave. Too late to save the situation. As it appears in the case of the OP.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> Hell yeah, I would! And I would not think twice about it. He wouldn't even have to ask me. I'd just do it. And I LOVE horses! But I love men more!
> 
> Men before horses!
> 
> Always!


Save a horse, ride a cowboy?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> At the time I thought well this is fun there's two of us but only one turned up.
> I knew it was going to be like that she had only had a few hours sleep that day and it was late nearly midnight, I've since spoke to my wife about last night she did say she was tired but that the massage was so good it totally relaxed her, we are going to *try again tonight but it's my turn she said...should be interesting I wonder if her head will get off the pillow this time.
> 
> *Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Continue to ignore our advice at your leisure. All this advice we have been giving you...do you think we are making it all up? Do you think we are just pulling it out of our butts? The collective wisdom you see here is gleaned from hard-earned experience on the part of those giving it to you. 

More of the same is just going to get you more of the same. Einstein once said something to the effect that "_The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"_. Let me ask you LG, are you insane? 

Your wife does not want to have passionate sex with you because she is just not passionate about you. It may or may not be your fault that this has happened, but this is the reality you face. Doing nice things for her has gotten you nowhere. Just like last night when, instead of appreciating you for attempting to set a romantic mood, she mocked you. Of course the backrub was enjoyable...it cost her nothing. Laying there like a ragdoll letting you use her like a sperm-receptacle cost her nothing. She gives nothing back because she knows she doesn't have to. In her eyes you aren't worth her effort so she gives no effort.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ynot said:


> Save a horse, ride a cowboy?


Ynot?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

FWIW, one time I told my wife exactly how I felt about our sex life, and what I needed to be happy. 

She was very upset. Then after a week or so she improved things. Then after a month it was back to normal. 

I really don't believe this situation can be fixed. Leave or accept. 


Leaving is of course easy to say, not easy to do after a long marriage. There are often kids, major financial issues (on the scales of years of income), the huge effort of moving, social issues, etc etc. Followed by rolling the dice on another relationship. I'm sure I could find a woman who wanted sex - but if you look at the discussions on this board, lack of sex is not actually the most common problem in marriages. 





jlg07 said:


> That is EXACTLY the point of saying it -- it is unlike you, and would shock her into thinking how serious this is for you. It being unlike you is a strong point -- being LIKE you hasn't worked so far, so...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

uhtred said:


> FWIW, one time I told my wife exactly how I felt about our sex life, and what I needed to be happy.
> 
> She was very upset. Then after a week or so she improved things. Then after a month it was back to normal.
> 
> ...


True, leaving is easy to say. FYI when I say that, when I give advice to leave, it is backed up by what I've actually also DONE: my actual life experience . I left a 16 year marriage, with 2 young children who are the light of my life, a medical problem, and the fact that I had been a stay at home mother for over a decade, in a state that is stingy on spousal support.

If I can get the **** out and make it work and pull myself up by my bootstraps, anyone can. No one has to stay in an absolutely ****ty marriage.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

uhtred said:


> FWIW, one time I told my wife exactly how I felt about our sex life, and what I needed to be happy.
> 
> She was very upset. Then after a week or so she improved things. Then after a month it was back to normal.
> 
> ...


You are right. Leaving after decades is not easy. But neither is staying in such a situation. 

Sometimes, the scales tip and it becomes harder to stay than it is to leave. 

Especially if it is a case where you are already alone in the marriage.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Livvie said:


> True, leaving is easy to say. FYI when I say that, when I give advice to leave, it is backed up by what I've actually also DONE: my actual life experience . I left a 16 year marriage, with 2 young children who are the light of my life, a medical problem, and the fact that I had been a stay at home mother for over a decade, in a state that is stingy on spousal support.
> 
> If I can get the **** out and make it work and pull myself up by my bootstraps, anyone can. No one has to stay in an absolutely ****ty marriage.


My situation is similar, except I left after 28 years. My only regret is not leaving sooner.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My saddle had a horn. Cowboys are always horny, so the saying goes.

English saddles don’t have a saddle horn because they don’t work with rope. 

Cowboys know what to do with rope. 

And... my wife made a point of making sure I heard the song “My Baby Loves to Fish”. She turns it up and dances in her seat when that song comes on.

Girls on horseback... I heard they’re more fun. But my experience is they’re just about like anyone else.

She just doesn’t like you any more.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

WilliamM said:


> My saddle had a horn. Cowboys are always horny, so the saying goes.
> 
> English saddles don’t have a saddle horn because they don’t work with rope.
> 
> ...


You sound a little like SunCMars 😉


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I know a lot of cowgirls and horsewomen who look really, really good in tight Wranglers. In that they excel.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

uhtred said:


> FWIW, one time I told my wife exactly how I felt about our sex life, and what I needed to be happy.
> 
> She was very upset. Then after a week or so she improved things. Then after a month it was back to normal.
> 
> ...


Ultimately the choice is yours (as is the OPs). You can remain mired where you are, making excuses and accommodations and never really living the life you were put on this earth to enjoy. Or you can take control and go forth on the journey we were each meant to live. The ONLY guarantee you have is that if you stay where you are, you will always be where you at - unhappy, dissatisfied and unfulfilled.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

uhtred said:


> OK, a really sad realization for some (and maybe for me) is that some people are in love with what they wish their partner was, not with what they really are.
> 
> I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Do I really love my wife? Is she really the person I want her to be? Or am I loving my fantasy of her - excusing every selfish behavior as an "aberration" from my image of what she is?
> 
> I don't know yet, but I think its worth anyone in a situation where their partner feels selfish to consider the issue carefully.


This is such good insight. I think that's why a lot of people get together - they love the potential they see in this other person, not so much the person that exists now. It's probably quite natural, in that many many people meet their future spouse when they are still in school, or still building their identity in some other fashion.

But you can't count on that potential ever being realized. You have to love the person they are NOW, AND make sure that this person is so awesome that you are willing to accept that they may change in ways you didn't anticipate and don't like. Not to mention you ALSO have to have gotten to know them well enough to make sure you're seeing their true self, not a lying manipulation, or bait and switch potential. Are they really high libido, or are they just paying the price of getting the question popped? Are they really romantic, or are the flowers and poems just because that's the price of getting the 'yes?' Alas, most of us make our commitments long before we have figured out how to recognize red flags.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> alot of people on here say ahh leave her divorce her, it's not that easy for one should I leave what are my options well I know for a fact I couldn't afford my own place which would mean moving in with my elderly parents my new girlfriend would dig that wouldn't she, my children my son is 13 my daughter is 10 we have a very happy home we never fight my wife and I, my daughter has said to me not so long ago please don't get divorced dad because a couple of her friends parents have and they were really sad.


You need to do your research on separation and divorce so you can make a decision with full knowledge of the law. Why would you have to leave the house and the children and live with your parents? You divide up the assets (and debts) fairly. Maybe one of you can keep the house and one of you buys a new one, or maybe you sell the house and each buy a new one with your half. You would share the children's time 50-50. The days of women automatically getting the house and the children while the man lives in a dump, never sees his children, and pays all the money to the woman are long over with. Do not make assumptions on what would happen.

Also, don't listen to a ten-year-old child's advice on marriage. If your daughter sees enough strife in your marriage to worry about you ending it, then you are not doing her any favours by staying in it.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

stillfightingforus said:


> In May when she re-ignited an affair with a man she had had at least an EA with 9 years ago, it unlocked that side of her that was wild. I saw it in their emails and texts to each other. Hurt so much more because that is wanted I wanted from her but what I got was rejection. I would try, get rejected give up for a month, ball up the resentment and then try again and when I got rejected again, it was a pain like no other.


That's very thought-provoking. I would guess that this was what she wanted from you all along too, but didn't know how to get. She may have wanted wild sex, but had so much resentment against you that she was unwilling to have it with you. Women who have a locked-up wild side are experiencing issues in the marriage that make them unwilling to let it out with their husband.

Either that, or it's 'new relationship energy' talking, which is impossible to compete with, and challenging to replicate in a lengthy marriage.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Leaving is of course easy to say, not easy to do after a long marriage. There are often kids, major financial issues (on the scales of years of income), the huge effort of moving, social issues, etc etc. Followed by rolling the dice on another relationship. I'm sure I could find a woman who wanted sex - but if you look at the discussions on this board, lack of sex is not actually the most common problem in marriages.


I have been thinking about this part of your post. Saying you should leave is NOT easy to say You saying it yourself is NOT either. I suffered as you do now in a largely sexless marriage. The once or twice a month she allowed me to have sex with her was largely just her doing her duty. There was no passion, no joy, no bonding. I thought about leaving but I just couldn't do that to the woman and family I loved. Yes, love had something to do with it, but then there were all those loose ends that needed tied up - how would I live, where would I live, our kids, our property, everything else.
In the end she made the choice. All those side issues resolved themselves in their own way. Quite frankly in my case in the most fortuitous ways possible. In all honesty the two things that hurt the most was the fact that she mage no effort to work it out. Even after 24 years, two kids, two houses and all the good times, vacations and crises we shared. The other thing was my ego was battered by the fact that I didn't have the guts to do what she did. I had been more than willing to deal with things, which was why I was unwilling to leave. In the end she didn't really care anyways. 
Now, I look at it that she did me a favor. I am free to pursue my life without worrying about how WE would make it work. So, maybe you should have another talk with your wife. You may find out she is just as unhappy and unsatisfied as you are.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Well we had our massage...didnt go quite to plan..who would have thought.
> First she told me off for lighting her Yankee candle then she said my spa music I put on sounded like a game show music, then my daughter came out of her room so I had to sort that, then the washing machine wouldn't stop spinning downstairs so i had to sort that out.
> I gave her a nice massage which she really enjoyed and then we had sex or rather I had sex, i went down on her then we did it missionary for a bit she then flipped over and we did it doggy style ...I told her I wanted a bj..silence...i could hear crickets...nothing I thought she was asleep...she probably was but I felt like I was alone anyway there was no interaction from her at all...which to be frank was what I was expecting her to do it was just pity sex, she didn't want it she just was counting down the clock till I came....oh well.
> 
> ...


The plus: Your wife at least did have sex with you. She cares enough to do that. She didn't want it and it's not necessarily her fault she wasn't acting interested.

The minus: Your wife isn't interested.

I don't really understand why the sex is so great on the holidays. How long ago was the holiday? Because I'd be tempted to have lots of holidays with her. If it's been too long.......... well, what changed?

I can assure you that having kids doesn't ruin ALL women's sex drive. Maybe some women's... but not all.

Wish I had a cure for you. I don't know that your wife doesn't love you. Just doesn't seem she desires you romantically. If so, tired or not, she would have gotten into it. Sucks. Up to you what to do about it. You might seriously ask her if you can step out and play with someone else, since she's not interested in playing the game anymore. I wouldn't, because she might do the same and enjoy playing with someone else. But either way, things would happen in your favor in the end.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm going to take a little different position on what happened last night. I've been talking about her priorities and still think that's the issue here. She is wearing herself out doing things that do not contribute the overall health of the marriage, so she has nothing left to give. Likely she loved the massage and was so relaxed that she had a hard time staying awake, like she said.

It is not uncommon for people to fall asleep during massage. I give massages to my family members from time to time. First for my husband and when the kids were born, I added them in. My kids are all grown up, but they will still come to me to help them work out an ache or pain, especially if they had a hard workout and overdid it a bit. Sometimes they fall asleep. Conked out. It happens.

So based on this, I don't think she did it on purpose, but the problem remains. She has not prioritized the marriage over other things. If she sits down and writes out what she believes her priorities are and then writes out how she actually spends her time, she will likely find a disconnect between the two. Then she will be more likely to make the changes necessary.

I am not going to recommend divorce, but I do recommend setting boundaries and asking her to do this exercise of writing it all down. Do it with her. Spend a few days making notes on what you do and how much time you spend on it, then you are not asking anything of her that you are not willing to do. Work with her and encourage her to work with you.

I have learned that people with different drives view sex differently. For some people, being tired does not stop them from wanting sex and putting it above more sleep. For other people, if they are tired, they cannot even think about having sex. Some people when they have a traumatic event, they cannot even think about sex, while other people look to sex to bring comfort and pleasure in the face of tragedy. We are not all the same. If you learn to understand where she is coming from and to have her look at both your priorities and hers, that may help clear things up so you two can make a plan together so that both of your needs are met. It's not all about either of you. It's about you making your relationship work for both of you.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don't really understand why the sex is so great on the holidays. How long ago was the holiday? Because I'd be tempted to have lots of holidays with her. If it's been too long.......... well, what changed?


I think this is more common than you might expect. I know I experienced it. I chalked it up to being in a new environment where all the pressures of home are gone. It's like living in a fantasy world for a short time. No bills, no laundry, no responsibilities, etc. She would be much more engaged and passionate on vacation, but then nothing when we got home.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

uhtred said:


> FWIW, one time I told my wife exactly how I felt about our sex life, and what I needed to be happy.
> 
> *She was very upset. Then after a week or so she improved things. Then after a month it was back to normal.
> *
> ...


Because she knew you weren't going anywhere. So why should she change?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Malaise said:


> Because she knew you weren't going anywhere. So why should she change?


This could be true, but I think the underlying problem for most people is that they do not have a plan. They have not thought through things reasonably, recognized what the problem is, and made a plan to change things, so they naturally fall back into their standard routine.

Most people want to have a great marriage and a great sex life, even people who are acting badly. The problem is they are so emotion based rather than thinking through things logically and doing the things that need to be done to make it happen.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Which is sort of the point. If she doesn't *want* things to be better then there is no solution (except leaving). I have no interest in her having sex with me to keep me from leaving. 




Malaise said:


> Because she knew you weren't going anywhere. So why should she change?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

wilson said:


> I think this is more common than you might expect. I know I experienced it. I chalked it up to being in a new environment where all the pressures of home are gone. *It's like living in a fantasy world for a short time.* No bills, no laundry, no responsibilities, etc. She would be much more engaged and passionate on vacation, but then nothing when we got home.


Sounds like a situation and mental state that is ripe for infidelity to occur.

It sounds strange. Seems like if she liked it with you and he at all, ever, then she would enjoy it at home to some extent.

I can say this, if he starts pressuring her for sex regularly now, she will resist big time. He can either make her want it, or he can likely get duty sex or no sex for the rest of the marriage. I've been pressured for sex before, myself (I'm high drive, too). It killed my desire almost. If the ladies that pressured me (they weren't knowingly doing this, they just wanted it more often than I did--- like at night AND in the morning) weren't so great in bed, I could've seen myself breaking up with them.
Also, I remember almost dreading morning and evenings if I wasn't in the mood because I'd just not built up any desire.
I think OP needs to be careful not to cause this. Scheduling some sex might be a good idea for a while. 
I also have found that the more sex I have, the more often I want it. I went without for a while in the recent past, and I found that my drive was really, really low...... It was weird. I do take a little pity on those people with low sex drives.

OP, I really think you should ask your wife to go with you to a sex therapist and see what you can do.... It may be that she needs to hear the truth from another person... The truth being that you need sex to feel close to your wife, and to feel loved, and to bond with her. And that what she is doing is ruining her marriage.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Livvie said:


> You sound a little like SunCMars 😉


You think he sounds like @SunCMars? Hahaha Not hardly. No offense to anyone.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> I know a lot of cowgirls and horsewomen who look really, really good in tight Wranglers. In that they excel.


Cowboy boots. Gotta have the cowboy boots to pull it off. :smile2:


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> It sounds strange. Seems like if she liked it with you and he at all, ever, then she would enjoy it at home to some extent.


At home to some extent...yeah, every square inch of the home should be christened and marked by ghosts of you two together there. It fills your home and mind with sweet memories and reminders of your bond, your love.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Which is sort of the point. If she doesn't *want* things to be better then there is no solution (except leaving). I have no interest in her having sex with me to keep me from leaving.


I would call having someone not care about me to that degree a deal breaker. But that is me. I guess.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I've been pressured for sex before, myself (I'm high drive, too). It killed my desire almost. If the ladies that pressured me (they weren't knowingly doing this, they just wanted it more often than I did--- like at night AND in the morning)


So how did this get resolved? Were you able to tell the ladies you felt pressured and it was (almost) killing your desire? How did you resolve this?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Which is sort of the point. If she doesn't *want* things to be better then there is no solution (except leaving). I have no interest in her having sex with me to keep me from leaving.


people change their behavior for a number of reason. Two of those reasons are

Fear of consequences

Knowing you've hurt a loved one by your actions

It seems she had/has no fear and doesn't seem to care much if you're hurt ( am I wrong? )

Believe me, I know.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Malaise said:


> people change their behavior for a number of reason. Two of those reasons are
> 
> Fear of consequences
> 
> ...


There are lots more reasons why people change their behavior. A change in circumstances is probably #1, which would apply here.
Something new is added into the equation. He said their sex life was fine before the kids. Rather than cutting back on her equestrian duties, she cut back on her time with her husband, including sex. She made room for the children by reducing the priority her husband had in her life. Apparently her horse has always come first, but that wasn't obvious until the kids came along.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I've been pressured for sex before, myself (I'm high drive, too). It killed my desire almost. If the ladies that pressured me (they weren't knowingly doing this, they just wanted it more often than I did--- like at night AND in the morning) weren't so great in bed, I could've seen myself breaking up with them.
> Also, I remember almost dreading morning and evenings if I wasn't in the mood because I'd just not built up any desire.
> I think OP needs to be careful not to cause this. Scheduling some sex might be a good idea for a while.
> I also have found that the more sex I have, the more often I want it. I went without for a while in the recent past, and I found that my drive was really, really low...... It was weird. I do take a little pity on those people with low sex drives.


Please help me understand how you resolved this. 

You are high drive, and the more you have sex the more you want it, but you almost dreaded morning and evenings because they wanted sex both times of the day but you had not built up any desire. So it almost made you want to break up with them.

How was this resolved?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

I was actually replying to uhtred's situation but it could possibly apply to OP.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

wilson said:


> I think this is more common than you might expect. I know I experienced it. I chalked it up to being in a new environment where all the pressures of home are gone. It's like living in a fantasy world for a short time. No bills, no laundry, no responsibilities, etc. She would be much more engaged and passionate on vacation, but then nothing when we got home.


Not me. I can think of less than a handful of times my ex and I had sex while on vacation. Of course I was some kind of sex fiend for even asking when it did happen.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> So how did this get resolved? Were you able to tell the ladies you felt pressured and it was (almost) killing your desire? How did you resolve this?



I did tell them that it wasn't that I wasn't totally into them and wanting them, but that I just was getting a little older and couldn't go that often. They both understood, and we just kind of adapted to one another. The sex with the one that pressured me the most was the best I'd ever had at the time. So it wasn't like I didn't crave the woman. I just am not able to go 7 days a week, twice a day like she might want. If I hadn't had any in a couple of days, I could go 2 or 3 times, however. It wasn't like we weren't having a LOT of sex. But a woman in her mid 30's to mid 40's is apparently ravenous about sex. Sorry to you guys who are having a problem... I assure you, all women and all marriages aren't bad in the physical aspect. My 14 year marriage never had a problem in that area.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

wilson said:


> I think this is more common than you might expect. I know I experienced it. I chalked it up to being in a new environment where all the pressures of home are gone. It's like living in a fantasy world for a short time. No bills, no laundry, no responsibilities, etc. She would be much more engaged and passionate on vacation, but then nothing when we got home.


I seriously do not understand this mindset.

I like to christen every nook and cranny of my home so it reeks of memories of us together there. 

So when I am preparing meals, I am not only thinking about the food prep I am doing, I am thinking about our last encounter we had on the countertop (and yes, I clean and sanitize it well afterward and before food prep LOL); when I see him sitting in a chair, I think about the last time I seduced him there; when I look out the window, I think about the last time we did it against the window; If I am washing dishes and he comes up behind me, kisses the back of my neck and pulls my pants down, etc...You get the idea.

Those ghosts (memories) of us together all throughout the home help make the place home, to me. 

Then when we go out of town and stay in an Airbnb or hotel, same thing.





.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Same here - vacations provide an almost unlimited number of excuses.



Ynot said:


> Not me. I can think of less than a handful of times my ex and I had sex while on vacation. Of course I was some kind of sex fiend for even asking when it did happen.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't think its that simple. From Mrs. Uhtred's point of view, she does care about me and does all sorts of things for me. I'm just asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex. 

From her point of view she *does* have sex with me every week - which is way more than normal. OK, some weeks we have to skip. OK, PIV is uncomfortable so we don't do that. Oral of course is gross, so we don't do that. But in any case sex really isn't important - Hollywood makes a big deal about it, but its not something that normal people really worry about. 




NobodySpecial said:


> I would call having someone not care about me to that degree a deal breaker. But that is me. I guess.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I don't think its that simple. From Mrs. Uhtred's point of view, she does care about me and does all sorts of things for me. I'm just asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex.
> 
> From her point of view she *does* have sex with me every week - which is way more than normal. OK, some weeks we have to skip. OK, PIV is uncomfortable so we don't do that. Oral of course is gross, so we don't do that. But in any case sex really isn't important - Hollywood makes a big deal about it, but its not something that normal people really worry about.


Remind me. Counseling? 

When you say you do have sex, what, exactly do you DO?


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

uhtred said:


> I don't think its that simple. From Mrs. Uhtred's point of view, she does care about me and does all sorts of things for me. I'm just asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex.
> 
> From her point of view she *does* have sex with me every week - which is way more than normal. OK, some weeks we have to skip. OK, PIV is uncomfortable so we don't do that. Oral of course is gross, so we don't do that. But in any case sex really isn't important - Hollywood makes a big deal about it, but its not something that normal people really worry about.


 @uhtred, It sounds like your wife has a warped sense of reality, because in the real world, lots of people enjoy sex, it isn't just something Hollywood makes a big deal about.

Do you believe (has your wife convinced you) that you are asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex?

Edited to add this question: In your honest opinion/view, does your wife really care about you?

These are questions for you. You don't have to answer them on here. Just something to think about. You may have already thought about it or even answered these on TAM or to yourself. Please disregard if so or if you feel they do not apply to your situation.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WildMustang said:


> @uhtred, It sounds like your wife has a warped sense of reality, because in the real world, lots of people enjoy sex, it isn't just something Hollywood makes a big deal about.
> 
> Do you believe (has your wife convinced you) that you are asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex?
> 
> ...


There is a weird dichotomy in the couple Uhtred's case. It sounds like they have a limited thing that is sex-ish that sounds like an awful lot like mutual masturbation which is this unimportant thing in the Mrs. view but that she is fine doing by herself.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I believe my sexual interests / desires are quite normal. I think I'm a good lover in the sense that I very much enjoy pleasing my partner and enjoy a quite wide range of things

I think Mrs Uhtred really does care about me, but has a very atypical view of sex. She is probably borderline asexual - I've looked quite a bit into that and I'm coming to believe it really counts as an "orientation". Between this and her upbringing, she seems unable to imagine that any women are different from her. 

Our marriage is good except (and its a big except) she has almost no natural sex drive and doesn't understand one in anyone else. 




WildMustang said:


> @uhtred, It sounds like your wife has a warped sense of reality, because in the real world, lots of people enjoy sex, it isn't just something Hollywood makes a big deal about.
> 
> Do you believe (has your wife convinced you) that you are asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex?
> 
> ...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I believe my sexual interests / desires are quite normal. I think I'm a good lover in the sense that I very much enjoy pleasing my partner and enjoy a quite wide range of things
> 
> I think Mrs Uhtred really does care about me, but has a very atypical view of sex. She is probably borderline asexual - I've looked quite a bit into that and I'm coming to believe it really counts as an "orientation". Between this and her upbringing, she seems unable to imagine that any women are different from her.
> 
> Our marriage is good except (and its a big except) she has almost no natural sex drive and doesn't understand one in anyone else.


I have never heard of an asexual who masturbates regularly. Is that common?


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I haven't directly pushed for counseling - I probably should, but since she seems to have such a low libido, I don't think it would help.


What we do for "sex" has varied a lot over time. We used to do PIV - but after a several month gap it became uncomfortable for her, so we did it less. She is aware that she could work back up to it with more frequency, and talks about doing so, but it never happens.

She hurt her hands, so can do very little with them.

She at one point found that she could get me off with a vibrator - and I have to constantly remind her that I don't really enjoy that. She doesn't seen to understand - to her since it gets me off, it must be good.

She used to hate doing oral. Then at one point when PIV was out, hands were out, and I didn't like the vibrator, she started dong that regularly and didn't seem to mind at all. Then recently she stopped again. And wanted to go back to using the vibrator on me. (sigh). 

(I have a wide range of interests - a vibrator as part of a domination / bondage game would be fine, but she isn't into that - not surprisingly). 

I do anything she wants (because I enjoy it) - generally some combination of massages / kissing / oral, fingers, toys, vibrator. She pretty much always gets off - or at least fakes very well. She generally gives the impression of, and claims to enjoy these activities. She just only wants the about once every other week. (and clearly gives the impression of not enjoying doing things for me). 






NobodySpecial said:


> Remind me. Counseling?
> 
> When you say you do have sex, what, exactly do you DO?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I haven't directly pushed for counseling - I probably should, but since she seems to have such a low libido, I don't think it would help.
> 
> 
> What we do for "sex" has varied a lot over time. We used to do PIV - but after a several month gap it became uncomfortable for her, so we did it less. She is aware that she could work back up to it with more frequency, and talks about doing so, but it never happens.
> ...


Uhtred, your wife likes getting off. You are making every kind of excuse and latching onto every reason to avoid that she does not like having sex WITH YOU. Several months of not having sex does not leave one unable to have piv. It does not sound like she has investigated root cause, if this pain is anywhere in her head. Can she do dishes with her hands? Laundry? Me thinks so.

You have not even asked for counseling. You are accepting and accepting. But yah, that is how you want to live your life. Recognize that no advice will help you if you are unwilling to do something. You live the rest of your life without sex. Or you do something.


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

uhtred said:


> I don't think its that simple. From Mrs. Uhtred's point of view, she does care about me and does all sorts of things for me. I'm just asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex.
> 
> From her point of view she *does* have sex with me every week - which is way more than normal. OK, some weeks we have to skip. OK, PIV is uncomfortable so we don't do that. Oral of course is gross, so we don't do that. But in any case sex really isn't important - Hollywood makes a big deal about it, but its not something that normal people really worry about.


I can completely relate here... as I think this is a bit ow my wife thinks.
That being said, we HAVE NOT done anything of a sexual manner in TWO YEARS... so a bit of difference in our stories.

But the "does she REALLY care about me" question is the endless carousel ride I get stuck on...
My wife does a LOT for me, but she DOES NOT seem too concerned with my needs/wants, even after numerous declarations by me of "unhappiness" "disconnect" "feelings of rejection" etc etc etc.

In my last "talk" with my wife about lack of sex/intimacy, my wife blamed her lack of interest on generally not feeling well, early menopause etc.
After our discussion, her course of action was to "self diagnose" herself and to DRAMATICALLY change her diet... NOT to try and have more sex/intimacy.

So does she not care about me?
I could argue it either way...
But like you ALL other aspects of our marriage are great!

marriage is the end of sex... that's the age old joke isn't it?
Aint no joke


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Not disagreeing with most of that, but the issue with PIV is real. When we did have sex that was her favorite thing to do. (I could be mean and say it was because it took the least effort). 

She is post-menopause and that can cause some issues. I don't think its unusual for older women to find sex uncomfortable if they go a long time without. She did ask her doctor and doctor recommended hormonal cream - but she doesn't want to try. This happened before long ago - she when a long time without sex and it became uncomfortable. That time I eventually convinced her to try frequently and it worked - and it became comfortable again. 

If we go a long time without, it just doesn't work, we are somewhat size incompatible. 





NobodySpecial said:


> Uhtred, your wife likes getting off. You are making every kind of excuse and latching onto every reason to avoid that she does not like having sex WITH YOU. Several months of not having sex does not leave one unable to have piv. It does not sound like she has investigated root cause, if this pain is anywhere in her head. Can she do dishes with her hands? Laundry? Me thinks so.
> 
> You have not even asked for counseling. You are accepting and accepting. But yah, that is how you want to live your life. that no advice will help you if you are unwilling to do something. You live the rest of your life without sex. Or you do something.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are some LD / asexual people who JUST DON'T WANT SEX. There come up with endless reasons, to themselves as much as their partners, to try to explain why they don't feel like sex, but in the end they just don't want it. 

A visit to asexual.org is an eye-opening experience.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I think it is wild to get MARRIED when you don't like sex.


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

uhtred said:


> There are some LD / asexual people who JUST DON'T WANT SEX. There come up with endless reasons, to themselves as much as their partners, to try to explain why they don't feel like sex, but in the end they just don't want it.
> 
> A visit to asexual.org is an eye-opening experience.


But does a person just turn asexual? 

Was there a time when you and your wife had a frequent sex life?
Dating, early marriage?

If it was good at one point, can you pin point when it went downhill?
My wife and I had a typical (good) sex life during dating and early marriage... I believe I can pin point the exact time frame when it all went downhill... that being at conception/pregnancy of our second child.

That pregnancy was deemed "high risk" (kind of) and my wife ran with that idea and it was immediately decided (by her) that sex was out of the question during pregnancy... That nine months set the stage for the last 5 years...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For us it was almost never good. 

Very low early on: we had sex once on our week-long honeymoon. .(yes, I should have known, but I was too young, to inexperienced, too much in love and just assumed it would get better). 

There have been a few times when it got better - up to once a week with quite a bit of variety maybe 5 years into our marriage, lasted almost a year but then dwindled again.

Then after the first "talk" it got very good for about 3 months. After the second talk got good for a month. After the 3rd talk, only a slight bump. 






PretzelLogic said:


> But does a person just turn asexual?
> 
> Was there a time when you and your wife had a frequent sex life?
> Dating, early marriage?
> ...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Not disagreeing with most of that, but the issue with PIV is real. When we did have sex that was her favorite thing to do. (I could be mean and say it was because it took the least effort).
> 
> She is post-menopause and that can cause some issues. I don't think its unusual for older women to find sex uncomfortable if they go a long time without. She did ask her doctor and doctor recommended hormonal cream - but she doesn't want to try. This happened before long ago - she when a long time without sex and it became uncomfortable. That time I eventually convinced her to try frequently and it worked - and it became comfortable again.
> 
> ...


Aren't you/she only mid fifties?? Honestly, and I think you know this, post menopausal women in this world have sex, regular sex. Any hormonal issues can be taken care of by (safe, these days) hormone replacement therapy and or lubrication. Also, you have stated repeatedly that if you two have regular sex, the uncomfortable issue goes away.

She doesn't care to have a sex life with you. Reality check: my parents are 80 and they probably have more sex than you two. It can be done. You have to choose to accept her excuses, or not.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Hollywood makes a big deal about it, but its not something that normal people really worry about.


Actually it is something that MOST normal people care about. A great deal in fact!. Do not delude yourself. Empires have been lost over sex. Everyday millions risk life and limb, fame and fortune to have sex. It is the prime directive of every living creature on earth.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Actually it is something that MOST normal people care about. A great deal in fact!. Do not delude yourself. Empires have been lost over sex. Everyday millions risk life and limb, fame and fortune to have sex. It is the prime directive of every living creature on earth.


I would bet my last dollar that she knows this, and is playing in order to deflect and avoid.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Not disagreeing with most of that, but the issue with PIV is real. When we did have sex that was her favorite thing to do. (I could be mean and say it was because it took the least effort).
> 
> She is post-menopause and that can cause some issues. I don't think its unusual for older women to find sex uncomfortable if they go a long time without. She did ask her doctor and doctor recommended hormonal cream - but she doesn't want to try. This happened before long ago - she when a long time without sex and it became uncomfortable. That time I eventually convinced her to try frequently and it worked - and it became comfortable again.
> 
> If we go a long time without, it just doesn't work, we are somewhat size incompatible.


The post-menopause thing does cause issues, the cream will most likely solve those issues.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I understand this, she does not. 



Ynot said:


> Actually it is something that MOST normal people care about. A great deal in fact!. Do not delude yourself. Empires have been lost over sex. Everyday millions risk life and limb, fame and fortune to have sex. It is the prime directive of every living creature on earth.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Taking a step back:

Lots of evidence that she doesn't want a good sex life. There are lots of claimed "reasons / excuses", some completely unreasonable - but that all adds up "she doesn't want much sex"

I cannot make her *want* sex. I may be able to coerce (at some level) her into having sex but she will never desire it. 

I don't want sex under pressure - if I'm not desired, then the point is lost. If just wanted physical sex, i could hire call-girls whenever I go away of business trips. I don't. 

I can stay and accept, or leave. 

I've chosen to stay - and drive people nuts by complaining about it on the internet.. (sorry). 





Livvie said:


> Aren't you/she only mid fifties?? Honestly, and I think you know this, post menopausal women in this world have sex, regular sex. Any hormonal issues can be taken care of by (safe, these days) hormone replacement therapy and or lubrication. Also, you have stated repeatedly that if you two have regular sex, the uncomfortable issue goes away.
> 
> She doesn't care to have a sex life with you. Reality check: my parents are 80 and they probably have more sex than you two. It can be done. You have to choose to accept her excuses, or not.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Lots of evidence that she doesn't want a good sex life. There are lots of claimed "reasons / excuses", some completely unreasonable - but that all adds up "she doesn't want much sex"


Nearly everybody, except the asexual, wants a good sex life. The definition of that looks like is what varies.

Whenever you are dealing with an apparently LD partner, you need to find out what their ideal sex life looks like. Most times, they will not be willing to tell you, for a variety of reasons. They know it differs from yours and they don't want to start an argument. They dislike your technique and don't want to hurt your feelings by saying so. They HAVE been telling you all along and you haven't demonstrated any willingness to change. It's due to life circumstances that cannot be changed and they don't want to complain.

An ideal sex life is also a moving target. Things change over time. What worked during courtship fades along with the new relationship energy limerence. What worked before children won't work after children. What worked during middle age is no longer effective during menopause. What worked when you were young and, athletic won't work when you are pudgy and tire quickly.

Etc.

For the poster's wife, a good sex life apparently involves hotels, zero chores, being well-rested, and having no distracting horses around.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Taking a step back:
> I've chosen to stay - and drive people nuts by complaining about it on the internet.. (sorry).


That's cool. I thought you were asking for advice. There are a lot of posters who ask for advice then come back with can't do this and won't do that...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> *I've chosen to stay - and drive people nuts by complaining about it on the internet.. (sorry).*


I'm doing my best not to climb into that same lopsided canoe with you and Holdingontoit.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

You need to man up and take this situation by the balls. Literally. Your wife's last performance during sex was a classic refusers mentality. First she tried to pick a fight so sex would not happen. Yes her outrage at the scented candles, and your choice of music, was designed to pick a fight in the hope you will retaliate so she has an excuse to not sleep with you.

When that ploy did not work because you behaved yourself by showing extreme patience in regards to her unreasnable behaviour she resorted to Plan B. Star Fish Reset Sex. This type of behaviour is designed to re start the sex countdown to keep you off her back for another month or so where the whole cycle would rinse and repeat, meaning she only has to have sex with you roughly 12 times a year. 

How do i know this? I have been there.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm doing my best not to climb into that same lopsided canoe with you and Holdingontoit.


My canoe capsized years ago.

No life jacket.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.

I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...

You guys sound like you are great catches. You have the qualities my friends and I seek in the men we date. 

It's a crying shame your wives don't appreciate and devour your sexuality. 

I am here to tell ya, there are quality women in the dating market who would snatch you up in a heartbeat, treat you well (including sex, especially sex) and love you to death!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm doing my best not to climb into that same lopsided canoe with you and Holdingontoit.


Honestly guys, I wish I had been able to. But I wasn't, so here I am.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.
> 
> I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...
> 
> ...


I hope you include me in that list. If so I appreciate the inclusion.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Ynot said:


> I hope you include me in that list. If so I appreciate the inclusion.


I don't know much (nothing, really, other than you are recently divorced, I think?) about your story @Ynot, but if it is similar to this thread and others like it on TAM, and you have the qualities I mentioned, then yes, of course you are included!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hope OP comes back to reclaim his thread that was stolen.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Hope OP comes back to reclaim his thread that was stolen.


I hope the OP is benefitting as much or more from this thread than I am.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

bandit.45 said:


> Hope OP comes back to reclaim his thread that was stolen.


How was this thread stolen?

Serious question.

It seems (to me) men are weighing in with similar, comparable experiences in their marriages/relationships to compare strategies and give advice in what works and what doesn't work, to give opinions about the particular dynamics between husbands and wives, and to encourage OP and other posters in the same boat. 

It all seems relevant (to me).


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

WildMustang said:


> How was this thread stolen?
> 
> Serious question.
> 
> ...


I am the same way. I enjoy and learn from threads that develop organically and meander. I don't understand the idea that it needs to only develop in a certain way.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

Hey guys I'm still here lurking in the background lol.
My wife and I had sex again Wednesday night it's was much improved my wife was more into me and made an effort, I think Tuesday she was tired, I believed she did listen to me when I talked to her, she said that on Saturday she will give me a massage and we will fool around, so I'm really looking forward to that.
If she start with holding from me again there is a video on you tube..this one https://youtu.be/Ep2MAx95m20 
That she talks about sexless marriages and the hurt it causes the other partner.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

WildMustang said:


> Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.
> 
> I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...
> 
> ...


Thank you that means alot x

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I do actually listen to and think about all the advice I get, even if I decide not to take some of it. If there was something that I thought would fix things while staying within my moral constraints, I would. As with any of these situations, words don't cover everything, so some advice that seems reasonable may not work for less obvious reasons. 

So, while I live with the assumption that it won't get better, I do look for opportunities. 




NobodySpecial said:


> That's cool. I thought you were asking for advice. There are a lot of posters who ask for advice then come back with can't do this and won't do that...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

WildMustang said:


> Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.
> 
> I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...
> 
> ...


This should be inspiring...
... but for those of of who soldier on, it only makes our situation all the more maddening.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Thank you that means alot x
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Of course. I don't say it lightly. I mean every word of it!


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> My wife and I had sex again Wednesday night it's was much improved my wife was more into me and made an effort, I think Tuesday she was tired, I believed she did listen to me when I talked to her, she said that on Saturday she will give me a massage and we will fool around, so I'm really looking forward to that.


That's a great sign that she's willing to make an effort. Hopefully you can build on that. 

Keep in mind that this problem is never truly fixed. She won't be 'cured' one day like she had a cold and then got better. Instead, it's more like a chronic health condition that needs constant treatment. Some times will be better than others, but there will always need to be focus on the problem or else things will get bad again. So don't become complacent during the good times thinking that everything is fixed. But the real key to lasting success is if she also commits to making it work even when she might prefer not to. If it's all one-sided and up to you to make it work, that will lead to frustration in the long-term.

For most men (and some women), sex is a natural urge that exists on its own. There's almost nothing you can do to stop it. But for many women (and some men), the urge for sex can wax and wane depending on many factors. It sounds like your wife needs some help to get her drive going, and, fortunately, it looks like she's willing to help make that happen.


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

wilson said:


> That's a great sign that she's willing to make an effort. Hopefully you can build on that.
> 
> Keep in mind that this problem is never truly fixed. She won't be 'cured' one day like she had a cold and then got better. Instead, it's more like a chronic health condition that needs constant treatment. Some times will be better than others, but there will always need to be focus on the problem or else things will get bad again. So don't become complacent during the good times thinking that everything is fixed. But the real key to lasting success is if she also commits to making it work even when she might prefer not to. If it's all one-sided and up to you to make it work, that will lead to frustration in the long-term.
> 
> For most men (and some women), sex is a natural urge that exists on its own. There's almost nothing you can do to stop it. But for many women (and some men), the urge for sex can wax and wane depending on many factors. It sounds like your wife needs some help to get her drive going, and, fortunately, it looks like she's willing to help make that happen.


I hope so I'm putting everything I have into it, I am being the best darn husband I can be and giving her no excuse not to want to sleep with me, of course I'll play it by ear she works at our local hospital on a&e so some days when she comes home after a traumatic day I know to leave her alone and just comfort her.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Hey guys I'm still here lurking in the background lol.
> My wife and I had sex again Wednesday night it's was much improved my wife was more into me and made an effort, I think Tuesday she was tired, I believed she did listen to me when I talked to her, she said that on Saturday she will give me a massage and we will fool around, so I'm really looking forward to that.
> If she start with holding from me again there is a video on you tube..this one https://youtu.be/Ep2MAx95m20
> That she talks about sexless marriages and the hurt it causes the other partner.
> ...


That's AWESOME news (said with only a tinge of jealousy), does actually give some hope.
Of course the real question is if it is or is not sustainable.

I like that you and your wife are able to "pre-arrange" sex... I know it inst spontaneous etc., but given sex difficulties in a relationship, that pre-arrangement I think take SO much of the stress/second guessing/doubt/fear etc. out... and I can only imagine (literally, only imagine) what its like to have it to "look forward to."

Wishing you the best of luck here man!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ynot said:


> I am the same way. I enjoy and learn from threads that develop organically and meander. I don't understand the idea that it needs to only develop in a certain way.


I just wish you guys would compact your posts a little. 

I mean....sometimes I think I need to pack a lunch before reading them.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> I hope so I'm putting everything I have into it, I am being the best darn husband I can be and giving her no excuse not to want to sleep with me, of course I'll play it by ear she works at our local hospital on a&e so some days when she comes home after a traumatic day I know to leave her alone and just comfort her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


She's a nurse? oh great....


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> She's a nurse? oh great....


Yes

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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Swell....


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Swell....


Sometimes lol

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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Swell....




At least she’s not a teacher!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its nice to hear :smile2:

Those of us who are still with our wives in this situation do have a choice. In many cases, including mine, we are married to very good loving people - its just this one (but important!) issue that is missing.

There are also a lot of women in the reverse situation - wonderful passionate women, whose husbands ignore them sexually.

Sexual mismatches just seem so.... well tragic. If only people could match up better this way before they ended up in long term relationships, there would be a lot more happy people in the world. 







WildMustang said:


> Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.
> 
> I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...
> 
> ...


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## Lonelygent1977 (Feb 20, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Its nice to hear :smile2:
> 
> Those of us who are still with our wives in this situation do have a choice. In many cases, including mine, we are married to very good loving people - its just this one (but important!) issue that is missing.
> 
> ...


Yes out of 4 billion women we chose the one not sexually compatable.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes out of 4 billion women we chose the one not sexually compatable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


You left out "to accept". Your statement should be "Yes out of 4 billion women we chose to accept the one not sexually compatible"


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Wildmustang
I am here to tell ya, there are quality women in the dating market who would snatch you up in a heartbeat, treat you well (including sex, especially sex) and love you to death! *

Thank you for that post. What many of us hear from our spouse is the opposite. I was told no one would want me and the once a month or 4 times a year sex we did have, I was a sex maniac.

Of course, some wives have a similar problem with their refusing husbands.


Lonelygent1977, it is good to hear something went your way. I will also include I hope your W sees it as going her way. In some circles, there is way too much of the W giving and the H getting when it comes to sexual and emotional encounters. I wish the common attitude was more along the lines that people "share" and "give to get."


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Lonelygent1977 said:


> Yes out of 4 billion women we chose the one not sexually compatable.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


The age old question - do you chose the one or do you create the one?

Just read through most of your threads - In your case, I am fairly sure YOU created this one!!!

Or more appropriately - you ALLOWED this one to develop into one of "the one".

For reference - I am a woman and a member of 'the one" club also! 

Before I spend any more time on your thread - I want to know if you really want help to change this situation - or are you here just to vent and whine, maybe try a few of the easiest ideas, once, and then go back to venting and whining more. My take is that its the latter - cause frankly, that is what I see you have been doing since you started posting on TAM. I have wasted too much time on threads like this where guys are not really interested in changing themselves. Not interested in doing that any more!!!

Oh - and pick a thread and stick with it. No-one can help when your real story is spread out, bits and pieces, through out several threads!.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Townes said:


> When this dynamic becomes really entrenched it often requires a whole paradigm shift in thinking and behaving on the partner who is lobbying for more sex for change to happen. Problem for most folks like OP is they're just trying to make little tweaks here and there within the existing paradigm. That's not going to work.
> 
> Also, a lot of guys that find themselves in this position just don't have it in them to make a paradigm shift because it goes against their nature. So they end up in the same situation year after year, decade after decade. I'm honestly not sure how helpful advice can be in these situations. That's not to say people shouldn't try to be helpful though.


Spot On!!!


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> This is the majority of your problem.
> 
> Conflict avoidance is exactly what got you where you are.


Another spot on!!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

mary35 said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> > This is the majority of your problem.
> ...


Mary, are you thinking if he had nipped early behaviors/ trends as they started to appear, he wouldn't be in the current situation?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Some of these trends are not easy to nip in the bud. I don't know the details of the OP's situation but in mine, the refusals were always tied to claims of poor health or other issues. "I'm so tired, I barely slept last night, I just can't...". "I'm sorry but I'm feeling queasy". Who wants to have sex with someone who claims to be physically miserable. Always coupled with a promise that things will be better in the future. Always apologetic. Sometimes crying.

As far as specific sex acts - having your partner express disgust at something you ask for is a real turn-off. 

Conscious manipulation or someone who just fundamentally can't enjoy sex? Maybe there isn't much difference. 

Leaving really is the right answer. No threats of leaving (that will just result in a brief improvement out of fear), but just saying that its over. I just can't bring myself to do it to my wife of 30 years. Still its what I'd recommend for others.





Livvie said:


> Mary, are you thinking if he had nipped early behaviors/ trends as they started to appear, he wouldn't be in the current situation?


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

WildMustang said:


> Man, I tell ya, this thread really does get to me...makes me want to give some of these wives a good talking to.
> 
> I see these good men on TAM who are loyal and faithful, loving and kind, intelligent and ambitious, (and I bet sexy!)...men who are good providers, good husbands, good Dads, good friends...with a healthy libido, liking sex, loving sex, wanting sex, and yet they are starved for affection, love, sex, intimacy, bonding, by their wives... over many years, even decades...
> 
> ...


I am sure they are great guys - with a lot of great qualities and would be snatched up quickly by quality women in the dating market. I know because I am also married to one just like them. 

But I have been around a long time, researching this subject, living it myself. And these are my thoughts!

The following are general statements - and yes there are a FEW exceptions. (Sorry guys - but most if not all of you are not in the exception category from what little i know) 

Most of these men are not in sexless marriages solely because of their wives, although admittedly, the wives definitely play their own major part in the marriage being sexless. And unless these men have figured it out - which I doubt they have fully - as they are still in sexless marriages - they will most likely end up in unhappy marriages again. They may find a woman that gives them tons of sex, - at least for awhile, but that women will most likely treat them badly in other ways. Why - because they will most likely allow it to be that way. 

For whatever reason - these men tend to avoid conflicts, they often avoid standing up for their wants and needs. They are great deflectors, excuse makers, turn the other cheekers, and superb ignorers - at least where their wives are concerned, To make matters worse, they are loyal to a fault! They have betas and alphas traits in other areas of their lives, but show mostly betas traits towards their wives. It's easier for them to stay in not so great marriages and somehow adapt, than it is to make changes in their character and their behavior in order to stand up for themselves when they have a right to and should. And the women they are with quickly pick up on this fact - and figure out how to use it to their advantage, pushing it farther and farther to see how far they can go. 

They are funny, witty, ambitious, good providers. They are good friends, great boyfriends, great newlywedders, and even better husbands (the envy if many other wives)- especially to wives who like getting their way in certain areas. And believe me - there are a lot of us like that around! )

While they start out sexy to their wives, the beta behaviors towards them that were so attractive at first, somehow become less sexy as time goes on. Why? Because they don't command the respect they deserve and should be getting. The more a person gets away with being allowed to treat another person with bad behavior - the less respect they give to that person. Most of us don't like ourselves when we act badly - and its human nature to deflect the dislike of ourselves to others - so we most often end up deflecting it to the person who we think makes us feel bad about ourselves, Unfortunately, we like getting our way even more. So a cycle is created - a very dysfunctional one. These men play their parts and the woman play theirs! Over and over the cycle continues! That is until one of them breaks it by not playing their part! And the one that usually breaks the cycle is the one that is the most unhappy with the cycle! These men may be unhappy with their cycle - but they fear breaking out of it more than they fear staying in it! Their wives aren't exactly happy with the cycles either - but they are happy with the results of getting their way!! In fact the longer it continues the more they get use to and like getting their way. So they will fight hard against change!!

OP - You have been given all of the advice you need already in this thread. i can't really add more. I believe that right now you fear of breaking out of your cycle is way more than you fear of staying in it. You fear losing your wife , your kids, and your marriage more than you fear staying in a sexless marriage for the rest of your life. 

Deal with this fear - figure out what is broken and keeps you from commanding your wife's respect and then fix whatever that is. Notice I say command and not demand!! There is a huge difference. One will work and the other will not! Stand up for your wants and needs and stop allowing your wife to treat you badly by setting strick boundaries of what you will and will not accept. Then follow through with consequences when boundaries are broken. Make no mistake - your wife IS treating you badly. She does not respect you and your needs and wants in the sex arena are not on the bottom of her priority list - they are not even on her list!! Just putting on your Alpha and demanding change or else will not fix this situation. You have to figure out how to be beta at the right times and how to be Alpha at the right times with your wife, so that the respect flows naturally. And you have to understand that your wife is use to the way things are - and actually likes it this way - so she will most likely resist and maybe even rebel against change. It could get way worse before it gets better. And it may not get ever get better with her, but from what you have described, I think you have a good change of her eventfully accepting and jumping on board with the change once she realizes its permanent and she can either jump in or leave. 

Most likely you will need professional help to accomplish all of this! But all of the above can be done and MUST be done in order for your marriage to even have a chance of being what you really want it to be and what it should be - a happy and fulfilling marriage for both of you! Obviously all of the above is not a quick fix. It's a long term commitment which will require a great deal of work first by you and then your wife has to come aboard and make her own changes. As Townes said - It will involve a permanent fundamental paradigm shift from you first and then from your wife. If you do your shift and she doesn't follow suit - trust me, you will be healthy enough to understand and to make the decisions you need to make for both of you to be happy - if you have to cross that bridge.

Sadly, experience tells me you won't do what you need to do. I hope I am wrong!


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Mary, are you thinking if he had nipped early behaviors/ trends as they started to appear, he wouldn't be in the current situation?


Yes - she would have either jumped on board - or he would have quickly realized he could never be in a happy fulfilling marriage with her and would now be in a happier marriage with someone else!


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

To continue with @mary35 line of thinking...

Not going to sell my book on here, but in it, I outlined what I called the "Five Mistakes" men make when trying to fix their DB:

1.	Buy her gifts. Flowers. Chocolates. Massages. Make her feel appreciated.

2.	Do more chores. Take the stress away from her life.

3.	Happy wife, happy life! Be more agreeable. Less drama and less stress is a good thing.

4.	Pretend that no other females in the world exist. Your focus should be solely on your wife. Temper your sexual urges.

5.	Talk to her. Make sure she really understands the problem and sees things from your point of view. Appeal to her rational side. Open up to her, emotionally.

None of the above leads to genuine sexual desire. I did all of the above, and so do the dozens of guys I've talked to. It takes a complete shift in reality to turn this around.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ynot said:


> You left out "to accept". Your statement should be "Yes out of 4 billion women we chose to accept the one not sexually compatible"


QFT.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mary35 said:


> Yes - she would have either jumped on board - or he would have quickly realized he could never be in a happy fulfilling marriage with her and would now be in a happier marriage with someone else!


I have often said the same thing about my own past. Had I had more back bone and enough balls to advocate for myself earlier, I could have avoided years of frustration, heartache, depression and self loathing. She may have come around, or she might have decided screw this, I am out of here. But either way I would not have lived thru years of sexual frustration, wondering WHF is wrong with me and internalizing it all.

BTW, the post previous to this one was on the money!


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

mary35 said:


> Yes - she would have either jumped on board - or he would have quickly realized he could never be in a happy fulfilling marriage with her and would now be in a happier marriage with someone else!



I have to add this explanation for my answer. If he nipped the behaviors early on - I made an assumption that in order to do that he would also have had to deal with his own brokenness too.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I don't think its that simple. From Mrs. Uhtred's point of view, she does care about me and does all sorts of things for me. I'm just asking for completely unreasonable things regarding sex.


Well, the issue here is that you are letting her subordinate your wants, needs, and sensibilities to hers. She's telling you that what you want doesn't really matter, because she's smarter and knows better what makes for a good relationship. And your behavior / lack of action is validating her viewpoint.

I know you're loathe to take a firm stand on this, but the approach to this issue is straightforward: you insist that your perspective matters as much as hers. She doesn't have to have the same priorities as you, but she does not get to talk sh!t about yours or tell you what they should be. True equality is the principle here.

With that conceptual foundation, you don't allow her to treat your perspective as subordinate or inferior to hers either. That means if she slacks off on the sex, you slack off on stuff for her. She makes a really good consistent effort for you, and you do the same. Let her experience the correlation between attention level you get and that which she gets. If she really resents your sex drive so much that she can't accept the premise of treating your respective needs as equal, you move on.

I understand how that sounds strange and possibly mean-spirited. I spent many years spinning my wheels with my now ex-wife and she made every excuse in the book: I wanted it too much, there were better things to do, normal people didn't sweat it, etc. In retrospect, the issue wasn't ability - she was capable of providing (even though it wasn't her favorite thing to do). The real issue was that she felt she could and deserved to have her needs met on her terms; and was resentful when that didn't pan out. And while a most of that was her innate narcissism, I'm sure that me putting up with that for a number of years made it worse. It's like when your parents don't push you to learn to ride a bike or swim; you can get set in your ways and change becomes increasingly unlikely.

Then, I reflect on the three relationships I've had since being since being single (not much in 9 years). I've carried myself increasingly well (by working on owning my expectations and advocating for myself as necessary) and had much better results:

1. First lady pulled that "my body is more valuable than anything you provide, so sex isn't a reasonable expectation and I don't have to provide it to be a good partner". I strongly disagreed and told her that it seemed we were done given her sentiments. Later on that day it was like "I got the kids a sitter, can we spend some time together?" We eventually broke up over some other stuff, but she never pulled that B.S. again.

2. Second lady admitted to intimacy issues (not abuse, but religious, a sheltered childhood, little visible affection between parents) and resultant low interest in sex (even though it quickly was clear she was very much into me and wanted to be exclusive). After a few months of dating there were only a few awkward attempts and no "lust" (for lack of a better word) on her part so we had some serious discussions about relationship expectations. She asked (in an annoyed manner) why we couldn't be together while we worked on building a sex life and I replied that such an approach was for when there was a mutual "spark". I said I had no interest in starting a relationship with someone where that spark had not manifested.

Her stated attraction towards me never really translated into action, and I broke it off not long after that. Because I refused to settle for a crappy sex life. I want to point out that this lady had much going for her; successful professional (great job, had her own money, owned a nice house, responsible), family oriented, and we got along well; it would have been easy to settle and have a very comfortable (if ho hum) relationship. But I had developed the confidence in myself and ownership of my wants to be able to walk away.

3. Third lady (my current GF) knows that relationships mean a sex life. And that means a good, mutual one where both partners step up to meet the needs of the other. So, even if she's not really feeling into it, she'll generally either provide out of love or issue a rain check that actually gets honored (imagine that). I treat her well and she knows I wouldn't put up with the B.S. the prior two ladies pulled, so she doesn't even try. I'm not saying that there aren't rough spots and hiccups, but we come from a shared viewpoint of my needs being as important as hers for as long as we are together. It doesn't work otherwise.

So, hopefully that motivates you to at least stand up and make yourself count. Yes, sometimes taking a stand carries a risk or a price; but I've done it your way, and my current way, and standing up for yourself is infinitely better for you in the long run.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Allow - accept - based on a choice you make. That means you can choose something else instead. The question you should be asking is why are you choosing this???


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

mary35 said:


> I have to add this explanation for my answer. If he nipped the behaviors early on - I made an assumption that in order to do that he would also have had to deal with his own brokenness too.


Exactly. I realize that I shared blame in what happened to me. I believe you may have posted it in this thread, that we train others how to treat us. I trained my ex to treat with no respect because of how I rewarded her when she did. In some ways, I am more angry at myself than I am at her. She is free to act anyway she wants. I was free to accept or not. By choosing to accept it, I reinforced to her that it was alright for her to act that way.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

When major life events shake things up, people often think that things will go back to normal, but there is no going back to what was normal. There is a new normal. In this case, the new normal was that your wife shifted her priorities when the children came along. Sex was not as high a priority to her as her horse, but you didn't realize that. You thought that things would improve and you didn't want to pressure her due to her just having a baby and settling in to being parents.

As time wore on you didn't realize that her priorities adjusted to include the children, but something had to go, which turned out to be your sex life and your happiness with it. It's easy for us to sit back and tell you if you had done something earlier this wouldn't have happened. Even though it's true, I doubt it was because you are weak willed pansy. I think it's because you were adjusting while your wife was adjusting and you were trying to be a good, loving, and understanding husband. What you didn't realize was that your wife was down grading your needs.

A lot of time has passed and the situation has become increasingly difficult, but it's hard to look back and see the progression when you're in the middle of it. You didn't do anything at the time, because you were trying to be a good husband, but now it should be clear that she settled into what was most comfortable for her because you didn't set some boundaries. I know it's hard to let your needs be known when you see that your wife is struggling to keep up, but when something has to give it shouldn't be your relationship.

In marriage the sexual relationship is a glue that holds you two together in so many important ways that when it is missing things can begin to come apart. She is probably missing that close, loving, and passionate relationship you once had, but she doesn't even realize it's because the sex is missing. This leaves both of you extremely vulnerable to affairs. It is now time that you step up to the plate to protect your marriage and family by getting both your priorities straight and working through this until you are back to that close knit relationship that brought these children into the world in the first place.

You don't have to demand, but you do have to state what your needs are and tell her what you are going to do. You are going to sit down and go over your priorities and make a plan to bring your marriage back to where it should be. I recommend you take a weekend where you farm out the kids, go to a hotel and have some serious time where you sit down with paper and pen to work out what she is currently spending her time on followed by what you want her priorities to be. (Edit to add: What you work out together that her priorities should be. And be willing to discuss your priorities with her in the same way that you expect her to do so with her priorities. This is an exercise in marital unity and having each other's backs.) Then work out a plan together for your lives and an improved marriage. Follow that with a nice time together of dining and fun.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I haven't heard of your book, but while these are good and I mostly agree with them, is it just about what not to do, or is there any suggestions about what replacement behaviours to start doing?



dadstartingover said:


> To continue with @mary35 line of thinking...
> 
> Not going to sell my book on here, but in it, I outlined what I called the "Five Mistakes" men make when trying to fix their DB:
> 
> 1.	Buy her gifts. Flowers. Chocolates. Massages. Make her feel appreciated.


Women will see this as bribery for sex, like you are trying to buy access to her body. Unless maybe they are the Receiving Gifts love language, which makes it complicated, because if you do it, they will think you are trying to buy sex, but if you don't do it, they will think you don't love them anymore.

The gift reaction will also vary with the impact they have on finances. If you're dirt broke and saving for a house, buying her lots of gifts will only move that goal farther away.



dadstartingover said:


> 2.	Do more chores. Take the stress away from her life.


See above, only now you're involving the Acts of Service love language.

Most modern women feel that division of chores should be equal. Both people live in the house, so both people should take care of the work that goes with that.



dadstartingover said:


> 3.	Happy wife, happy life! Be more agreeable. Less drama and less stress is a good thing.


This one seems kind of vague. If you're being agreeable with things you don't agree with, it's like lying to your wife, always a bad sign for a marriage. And it builds resentment in you.



dadstartingover said:


> 4.	Pretend that no other females in the world exist. Your focus should be solely on your wife. Temper your sexual urges.


I kind of think women want to believe that now they are in your life, no other woman could possibly turn your head anymore. I think it comes from too many romance novels and rom com movies.

You just have to turn it around. "Do I think that waitress is kind of hot? Sure, seeing her makes me want to take you home and do dirty things to you..."



dadstartingover said:


> 5.	Talk to her. Make sure she really understands the problem and sees things from your point of view. Appeal to her rational side. Open up to her, emotionally.


Yeah, there's a limit here. Show her your feelings, sure, but as a mature adult seeking advice, not as a dependent seeking someone to fix things. Of course you have feelings, but you also need to demonstrate you are managing them yourself.



dadstartingover said:


> None of the above leads to genuine sexual desire. I did all of the above, and so do the dozens of guys I've talked to. It takes a complete shift in reality to turn this around.


No, none of this will lead to sexual desire. But doing them wrong WILL dampen sexual desire, that's for sure.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I haven't heard of your book, but while these are good and I mostly agree with them, is it just about what not to do, or is there any suggestions about what replacement behaviours to start doing?


Yep, of course. I give you my prescription for what I found has worked. Search for "Dead Bedroom Fix" on amazon.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> When major life events shake things up, people often think that things will go back to normal, but there is no going back to what was normal. There is a new normal. In this case, the new normal was that your wife shifted her priorities when the children came along. Sex was not as high a priority to her as her horse, but you didn't realize that. You thought that things would improve and you didn't want to pressure her due to her just having a baby and settling in to being parents.
> 
> As time wore on you didn't realize that her priorities adjusted to include the children, but something had to go, which turned out to be your sex life and your happiness with it. It's easy for us to sit back and tell you if you had done something earlier this wouldn't have happened. Even though it's true, I doubt it was because you are weak willed pansy. I think it's because you were adjusting while your wife was adjusting and you were trying to be a good, loving, and understanding husband. What you didn't realize was that your wife was down grading your needs.
> 
> ...


Along with natural libido changes due to hormones as we reproduce and age (which vary by sex!) reaction to stress is a big difference.

Some people want sex as a stress reliever. Some people only want sex when their stress is low. Those two types just can't match up well because the relationship would become very one-sided. Two people who want sex to relieve stress work well, but two people who only want sex during low-stress times won't work either because there's really no such thing as a low-stress life anymore.

When you have one of those mismatches, it can look like HD vs LD.

The increased sex on vacation really demonstrates that your wife is a low-stress sex type. Right now, children and a horse rely on her to stay alive, so she will naturally prioritize them, which is apparently using up all her time, which is stressful, so she doesn't want sex.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Along with natural libido changes due to hormones as we reproduce and age (which vary by sex!) reaction to stress is a big difference.
> 
> Some people want sex as a stress reliever. Some people only want sex when their stress is low. Those two types just can't match up well because the relationship would become very one-sided. Two people who want sex to relieve stress work well, but two people who only want sex during low-stress times won't work either because there's really no such thing as a low-stress life anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you mentioned this. It's a really important point.

A couple can both start out at HD, but people can appear to be LD later due to life changes. Like you said, if things were low stress and become high stress it can dramatically change the sexual interest of some people, but not others. Some people need more sex when they are stressed out. Others cannot even think about it when they are stressed out.

My advice changes somewhat based on this information. Priorities are important, but also find out what keeps her from having sex and what makes her want to have sex. Then work together to carve out a lifestyle that is ideal for both of you to get your needs met.

#1 most important thing is to not make this into an adversarial situation. She is not your enemy withholding something from you to hurt you. She is your wife and from what you describe she is not out to get you. She has some genuine issues to work through and it is in both of your best interests to figure out what they are and how they can be resolved for the benefit of you both.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

mary35 said:


> Allow - accept - based on a choice you make. That means you can choose something else instead. The question you should be asking is why are you choosing this???


Fear of being alone.

Low self confidence coupled with an amazed disbelief / gratitude that she said 'yes'

Hope that things will get better.

Codependency


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I have a wife who in other ways treats me well. She has a good full time job and does her share of housework and other chores. We enjoy a lot of the same activities - hiking in the mountains, traveling to exotic destinations. We enjoy talking about a wide range of things. Like me, she didn't want children. She doesn't drink or have any obvious addictions. She doesn't easily get angry, and isn't "crazy" in any of the ways people often complain about. I think is extremely unlikely she has ever cheated. She doesn't overspend credit cards, or take hours getting dressed in the morning. 

Think of all the things that people complain about in marriages. Even ignoring the hurt to her (which I can't ignore), while i could easily find a woman who wants sex, what are the odds that I would escape all of the other issues?

I ran a poll here a while back, and lack of sex was not the most common problem in relationships. 

If I could magically make my wife want sex, that would be great, but that can't happen - I can only ditch her for a different woman with an entirely new set of problems. 




mary35 said:


> Allow - accept - based on a choice you make. That means you can choose something else instead. The question you should be asking is why are you choosing this???


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In my case I did that. Told her what I wanted, what needed for it to be a good marriage. She said that she was not able to do that. That she would end up resentful and unhappy for needing to provide that much sex. She simply doesn't believe that sex matters to me, and wont believe unless I actually divorce her.

Fair enough but that puts me back at accept of leave. 

I could stop doing non-sexual nice things for her, she would do the same for me and we would end up in a sexless, but even less happy situation. 



CynthiaDe said:


> snip
> You don't have to demand, but you do have to state what your needs are and tell her what you are going to do. You are going to sit down and go over your priorities and make a plan to bring your marriage back to where it should be. I recommend you take a weekend where you farm out the kids, go to a hotel and have some serious time where you sit down with paper and pen to work out what she is currently spending her time on followed by what you want her priorities to be. (Edit to add: What you work out together that her priorities should be. And be willing to discuss your priorities with her in the same way that you expect her to do so with her priorities. This is an exercise in marital unity and having each other's backs.) Then work out a plan together for your lives and an improved marriage. Follow that with a nice time together of dining and fun.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

uhtred said:


> I have a wife who in other ways treats me well. She has a good full time job and does her share of housework and other chores. We enjoy a lot of the same activities - hiking in the mountains, traveling to exotic destinations. We enjoy talking about a wide range of things. Like me, she didn't want children. She doesn't drink or have any obvious addictions. She doesn't easily get angry, and isn't "crazy" in any of the ways people often complain about. I think is extremely unlikely she has ever cheated. She doesn't overspend credit cards, or take hours getting dressed in the morning.
> 
> Think of all the things that people complain about in marriages. Even ignoring the hurt to her (which I can't ignore), while i could easily find a woman who wants sex, what are the odds that I would escape all of the other issues?
> 
> ...


Utred, you seem to believe that a good woman who ALSO wants to participate in a full, frequent, enthusiastic, passionate sex life with you might not exist. A good woman who also wants sex with her partner isn't that hard to find. 

It feels to me like you are rationalizing things. 

What you describe you could have in a friend: a good person with the traits you describe (good job, good morals, even keeled, stable personality, likes to travel with you, is good company). Heck, I actually just described my best female friend!!!

What makes a marriage different than a friendship is SEX. Passion! Sharing of bodies and our human sexuality and sensuality, and with that the kind of intimacy, connection and closeness you don't share with anyone else every in your life.

You get to decide if what you have as a marriage is enough for the rest of your life, but I personally don't buy your rationalization that you can't find a great woman who also wants to have an intimate relationship with you.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

First - yes, I am rationalizing, quite aware of it. I just can't abandon my wife so I come up with excuses. You are right. 

That said, while I do believe that women exist who are all of these things that I want, I also see a large number of unhappy relationships for a wide variety of reasons - presumably people got into those relationships also thought that they had found a good person. 

I completely agree that passion (eg sex) is the difference between friendship and love. What I have is friendship. 


Really, I just cant bring myself to hurt my wife like this by leaving her. Its not as if she has changed or done a bait / switch, - she was always like this. It was my own inexperience that kept me for recognizing the issue so long ago. 

Also, it sounds trite, but I do actually love her a lot. 






Livvie said:


> Utred, you seem to believe that a good woman who ALSO wants to participate in a full, frequent, enthusiastic, passionate sex life with you might not exist. A good woman who also wants sex with her partner isn't that hard to find.
> 
> It feels to me like you are rationalizing things.
> 
> ...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> First - yes, I am rationalizing, quite aware of it. I just can't abandon my wife so I come up with excuses. You are right.
> 
> That said, while I do believe that women exist who are all of these things that I want, I also see a large number of unhappy relationships for a wide variety of reasons - presumably people got into those relationships also thought that they had found a good person.
> 
> ...


All completely understandable... and I’m sure not at all uncommon


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> #1 most important thing is to not make this into an adversarial situation. She is not your enemy withholding something from you to hurt you. She is your wife and from what you describe she is not out to get you. She has some genuine issues to work through and it is in both of your best interests to figure out what they are and how they can be resolved for the benefit of you both.


Agreed, but only so long as she agrees that, at the end of the day, his needs as her husband are a priority - and acts accordingly.

She has a job (if I recall correctly) and children. Time is going to be in short supply - that is inevitable. If she only agrees to small tweaks to her schedule and prioritization, then her husband will be the one who gets left out whenever something doesn't go according to plan.

What needs to happen is that she needs to prioritize his needs over the horses, and cut out other stuff in her life to make time for the horsemanship. If she can't / won't do that, then she has made herself the adversary and he needs to deal with that accordingly.

There is no way I personally would allow myself to be assigned a lower priority than a pet. And, as someone else noted, if the OP goes away, so do the horses - it seems unlikely that she could pull it off by herself (who's going to care for the horses while she's single-parenting 50% of the time?) So, yes he should seek a collaborative approach at first. But if he is still last on the list, then he needs to take a stand.

The OP will be happier if she makes him a priority (even if doing so makes her less happy than she might be otherwise) vs. her being perfectly content but his needs aren't getting met. The adage about her feeling safe having sex with him, but unsafe if not having sex with him, applies here 100%.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

DTO said:


> There is no way I personally would allow myself to be assigned a lower priority than a pet.


And when all is said and done, this right here is the reality.

He rates less than a ****ing animal.

I would divorce just on those simple facts alone.
Any time you allow yourself to be replaced in the family hierarchy for an animal, means you have some VERY SERIOUS self-respect issues.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Women will see this as bribery for sex, like you are trying to buy access to her body.
> 
> The gift reaction will also vary with the impact they have on finances. If you're dirt broke and saving for a house, buying her lots of gifts will only move that goal farther away.


I'm not like this.

I love giving and receiving gifts, and I can't imagine taking it as bribery. To me, if I was given my favorite flowers, I would see it as thoughtfulness - not only that he remembered what I like, but that he took the time and effort to find them.



> Most modern women feel that division of chores should be equal. Both people live in the house, so both people should take care of the work that goes with that.


Yes and no. Although I was very appreciative of the work my ex-husband would do at home, at times it was smoothering. An example of this - I was cooking dinner, and he'd come in and take over, thinking he was being helpful.



> I kind of think women want to believe that now they are in your life, no other woman could possibly turn your head anymore. I think it comes from too many romance novels and rom com movies.
> 
> You just have to turn it around. "Do I think that waitress is kind of hot? Sure, seeing her makes me want to take you home and do dirty things to you..."


I agree with the first statement and disagree with the second. 

I understand that it's completely normal for a man to find other women attractive, but I don't want to hear about it. I _do_ want to feel like I'm the only woman who has his attention and devotion, and I'd want to contribute to him feeling the same.

Now when he does find another woman attractive, yet without throwing her into mix says, 'I'm taking you home and ****ing you', that'd be amazing.



> No, none of this will lead to sexual desire. But doing them wrong WILL dampen sexual desire, that's for sure.


Agreed.

Masculine assertiveness to lead, make decisions, initiate sex - I learned the hard way that for me, this is what produces respect and maintains desire. That's it.

In terms of HD/LD, I can be either depending on the situation. I'm responsive, but if respect and attraction are there with someone who initiates, I can be very HD quickly. In my marriage, I was in sexual hibernation from a complete lack of respect combined with frustration and anger.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@uhtred You don't have to justify to anyone why you stay with your wife. You love your wife and see that she has many good qualities. Like you said she's always been like this, you just didn't realize it. I'm sorry that you are missing an aspect of marriage that is important to you, but I hope you can be content in the life that you have chosen. It all comes down to the fact that you have made a choice to love her and stay with her. I hope you can do that without bitterness.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

uhtred said:


> First - yes, I am rationalizing, quite aware of it. I just can't abandon my wife so I come up with excuses. You are right.
> 
> That said, while I do believe that women exist who are all of these things that I want, I also see a large number of unhappy relationships for a wide variety of reasons - presumably people got into those relationships also thought that they had found a good person.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have tried in the past to change things with your wife and she has laid it out clear to you what she can/will provide as far as sex goes. Also sounds like you have thoroughly thought through your situation and weighed the pros and cons of staying in a marriage to her and the pros won. I'm sure you are wistful now and then about your sex life not being the way you want it. if you have decided to accept your wife just as she is now and are finding a way to be happy with her in spite of the cons and As long as you recognize that staying with her, knowing full well she probably is never going to change is a conscious choice you are making and do not hold resentment against her, and are content with your marriage, there is nothing wrong with that in my book! For some - having a low drive spouse is a deal breaker - for you it appears it is not!


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

mary35 said:


> As long as you recognize that staying with her, knowing full well she probably is never going to change is a conscious choice you are making and do not hold resentment against her, and are content with your marriage, there is nothing wrong with that in my book! For some - having a low drive spouse is a deal breaker - for you it appears it is not!


If @uhtred really is content and does not hold resentment against her, good for him. I think many of us in this situation are not content and do hold resentment against our LD spouse, but are not willing to pay the price for freedom. We resent our LD spouse, but we actually should resent ourselves for not having the courage to leave. Then again, for many of us, our LD spouses are also paying the price for our cowardice. Cannot be fun being married to a seething ball of resentment who is not content with the marriage but refuses to pull the plug. In many ways, the LD is just as "stuck" as the gutless HD.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> If @uhtred really is content and does not hold resentment against her, good for him. I think many of us in this situation are not content and do hold resentment against our LD spouse, but are not willing to pay the price for freedom. We resent our LD spouse, but we actually should resent ourselves for not having the courage to leave. Then again, for many of us, our LD spouses are also paying the price for our cowardice. Cannot be fun being married to a seething ball of resentment who is not content with the marriage but refuses to pull the plug. In many ways, the LD is just as "stuck" as the gutless HD.


Yep! A lot of my anger towards myself is that I didn't have the guts to do something that I inherently knew was right a long time ago. I could have saved myself years of pain and suffering, both before and after my divorce had I simply said enough was enough. Instead I soldiered on thinking I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, by remaining loyal and supportive and being the good provider and doing everything to help my ex out. In the end it just resulted in more resentment and more anger.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> If @uhtred really is content and does not hold resentment against her, good for him. I think many of us in this situation are not content and do hold resentment against our LD spouse, but are not willing to pay the price for freedom. We resent our LD spouse, but we actually should resent ourselves for not having the courage to leave. Then again, for many of us, our LD spouses are also paying the price for our cowardice. Cannot be fun being married to a seething ball of resentment who is not content with the marriage but refuses to pull the plug. In many ways, the LD is just as "stuck" as the gutless HD.



The LD/HD label is really quite counterproductive...

If you at any point experienced great sex life (whether on holiday or at the beginning of a relationship or whatever) it means that not all is lost when a bad patch hits you: it’s most likely that your spouse’s head is probably preoccupied with something else and that it’s possible to reverse this.

If however you never had any good sex with that person then it’s unlikely to change to the better in future. 

I don’t know if that’s correct but it’s something I have observed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Ynot said:


> Yep! A lot of my anger towards myself is that I didn't have the guts to do something that I inherently knew was right a long time ago. I could have saved myself years of pain and suffering, both before and after my divorce had I simply said enough was enough. Instead I soldiered on thinking I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, by remaining loyal and supportive and being the good provider and doing everything to help my ex out. In the end it just resulted in more resentment and more anger.



QFT.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Holdingontoit said:


> If @uhtred really is content and does not hold resentment against her, good for him. I think many of us in this situation are not content and do hold resentment against our LD spouse, but are not willing to pay the price for freedom. We resent our LD spouse, but we actually should resent ourselves for not having the courage to leave. Then again, for many of us, our LD spouses are also paying the price for our cowardice. Cannot be fun being married to a seething ball of resentment who is not content with the marriage but refuses to pull the plug. In many ways, the LD is just as "stuck" as the gutless HD.


I'm not so sure the LD and HD spouse are equally bad off in a mismatch situation. I think there is a very real difference between the unsatisfied innate drive of an HD partner and an LD who is satisfied, because the LD can give more out of generosity without feeling bad.

I know it's an imperfect analogy, but I would liken it to food intake, where if you don't get enough you won't die, but you will have those hunger pangs and always feel a lack. Having just the right amount for oneself of course is the optimum. Having more than you would like is not going to be as uncomfortable as having less, except for weight gain (which isn't an issue with sex).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Really, I just cant bring myself to hurt my wife like this by leaving her. Its not as if she has changed or done a bait / switch, - she was always like this. It was my own inexperience that kept me for recognizing the issue so long ago.
> 
> .


So once someone makes a mistake, they can never correct it? 

Dumb things done in youth cannot be corrected in adulthood?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are 2 people involved. Its not like trading in a car on a model you prefer. 

Sometimes she really does try - its not like she is evil or intentionally taking advantage of me. 






oldshirt said:


> So once someone makes a mistake, they can never correct it?
> 
> Dumb things done in youth cannot be corrected in adulthood?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uhtred said:


> There are 2 people involved. Its not like trading in a car on a model you prefer.
> 
> Sometimes she really does try - its not like she is evil or intentionally taking advantage of me.


I wasn't evil and I was trying hard when my first love left me for a guy that was a couple years older, better looking and had a cooler car.

And I wasn't evil and was trying hard a few years later when a gal I was truly in love with and thought was going to be "The One" left me because she turned into a party and club girl when she reached legal drinking age and I was not a drinker or a partier. 

I wasn't evil and I was trying a few years after that when the woman I had been seeing for a number years decided she couldn't fight her orientation anymore and left me for a woman. 

And I wasn't evil and I was trying over the years when various other dating relationships and girlfriends didn't work out and those relationships came to an end because one or the other of us wanted something that the other wasn't providing. 

Yes I was sad for awhile in the days immediately following the ax coming down, but once the tears dried up it became clear that we weren't the right matches for each other life went on and we all found the right match that was compatible for everyone. 

Just because there is no foul play doesn't mean that everyone has to be condemmed to a life of chronic frustration, dissatisfaction and conflict. 

Sexuality and physical intimacy are legitimate critical components of marriage. And if that connection isn't there, that is just cause for moving on. 

Noone questions a woman for leaving a guy that doesn't have a high enough income or that doesn't provide for her emotional needs or that sits on the couch and gets fat etc. I don't know why this would be any different.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

uhtred said:


> There are 2 people involved. .


Yes there is. 

Which means not only are you being deprived of being with someone that shares your desire for sexuality and physical intimacy; but you are also depriving her of being with someone who is ok with platonic love. 

Not only are you having to live with being chronically dissatisfied, frustrated and resentful, but she also is having to live with someone that wanting more from her than what she can provide and she living under the dark cloud of resentment and frustration. 

Unless you have been totally squashed and completely emasculated to the point that you make the perfect girlfriend, she also has to live with dark cloud of resentment and angst that this issue is causing. 

Life isn't a bowl of cherries for the LD partner either.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Yes there is.
> 
> Which means not only are you being deprived of being with someone that shares your desire for sexuality and physical intimacy; but you are also depriving her of being with someone who is ok with platonic love.
> 
> ...


My LD wife is perfectly sincere when she says she is fine with being saddled with a HD partner. She loves all the other things about our union such that my dissatisfaction really doesn't bother her. She even loves the sexual attention I give her (makes her feel desired) even if she doesn't want to reciprocate. 

Thinks are only hard on the LD partner if the HD partner makes it so (i.e. he cheats, or berates her, or he becomes cold & inattentive). In most HD/LD relationships, there is an inherent imbalance as the LDs actions are inherently hard on the HD while the reverse isn't necessarily the case.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My LD wife is perfectly sincere when she says she is fine with being saddled with a HD partner. She loves all the other things about our union such that my dissatisfaction really doesn't bother her. She even loves the sexual attention I give her (makes her feel desired) even if she doesn't want to reciprocate.
> 
> Thinks are only hard on the LD partner if the HD partner makes it so (i.e. he cheats, or berates her, or he becomes cold & inattentive). In most HD/LD relationships, there is an inherent imbalance as the LDs actions are inherently hard on the HD while the reverse isn't necessarily the case.


I get that. 

That is why I said if the HD partner is completely squashed and emasculated enough that they don't make any waves and sit quietly in their fate, then all is well with the LD partner. 

Balls sitting quietly on the shelf in their jar usually don't cause any problems.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> If @uhtred really is content and does not hold resentment against her, good for him. I think many of us in this situation are not content and do hold resentment against our LD spouse, but are not willing to pay the price for freedom.


Ugh. I swore never again. And here I am.

You have no earthly right being resentful of your wife. You are a messed up person who likes to wallow in his yuck and ... shall we say massive piece of work who would rather roll over than face the reality of your situation. I am sympathetic to Uhtred. His attitude is nothing like yours. You, sir, are eminently un f-able. With you, I am more sympathetic to your wife. Not all situations are the same.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> You, sir, are eminently un f-able.


Exactly correct. And that is a big part of why I stay. If I am not going to have sex either way, might as well stay with the mother of my children.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> This has been my observation as well.
> "_They feed all their energy into their equine passion_" as well as their finances. Horses can burn through Benjamins like a forest fire.
> It's like a racecar you have to feed.


True that. I've known two and both put way more effort into a horse than any other aspects of their lives.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Exactly correct. And that is a big part of why I stay. If I am not going to have sex either way, might as well stay with the mother of my children.


Why is that? Why are you not going to have sex either way? Are you morbidly obese? Do you have some disfigurement? Are you incapable?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Why is that? Why are you not going to have sex either way? Are you morbidly obese? Do you have some disfigurement? Are you incapable?


His lack of self worth reeks.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Exactly correct. And that is a big part of why I stay. If I am not going to have sex either way, might as well stay with the mother of my children.


"Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodySpecial View Post
You, sir, are eminently un f-able."

Holding, this statement crossed the ****ing line!
I can't say what I really want to say, because if I unblock her and say it, I promise it will be enough to be a permanently bannable offence.

Don't put up with that **** man.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Windwalker said:


> "Quote:
> Originally Posted by NobodySpecial View Post
> You, sir, are eminently un f-able."
> 
> ...


The target of that statement flat out agreed with her. I honestly don't understand why everyone thinks everyone needs to tip toe around the truth instead of just saying it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> His lack of self worth reeks.


If true, that is really sad. Because fixing one's self esteem is cheap and easy compared to a lot of that other stuff. All it involves is deciding not to be a door mat anymore.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Ynot said:


> If true, that is really sad. Because fixing one's self esteem is cheap and easy compared to a lot of that other stuff. All it involves is deciding not to be a door mat anymore.


It is not just door mat stuff given depression and the like. But, having lived under similar circumstances, it is SOOOOO much easier to live with liking oneself on all levels. Relationships just fall into place. When a person finally decides to invest in themselves FOR themselves, it is a beautiful thing. Focusing on lack of sex seems pretty back-a$$ward when ones personhood is AFU. It is sort of counter productive. But to knowingly decide to just live the remainder of ones one and only life in abject misery makes no sense to me.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Windwalker said:


> "Quote:
> Originally Posted by NobodySpecial View Post
> You, sir, are eminently un f-able."
> 
> ...


Would that he didn't put up with that ****. That would certainly be progress!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> It is not just door mat stuff given depression and the like. But, having lived under similar circumstances, it is SOOOOO much easier to live with liking oneself on all levels. Relationships just fall into place. When a person finally decides to invest in themselves FOR themselves, it is a beautiful thing. Focusing on lack of sex seems pretty back-a$$ward when ones personhood is AFU. It is sort of counter productive. But to knowingly decide to just live the remainder of ones one and only life in abject misery makes no sense to me.[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree. I guess it somewhat understandable if the doormat doesn't understand they are being used as a door mat. But once it has been pointed out to them, and they choose to remain a door mat it kind of makes you wonder how they could ever complain about some one wiping their shoes off on them ever again.
> I was in a sexless marriage, I thought something wasn't right. After all people risk is all just to have it. But I sort of just came to accept it as a way of life. It left me depressed. Once she decided to leave, however, I have come to realize that I was used as door mat and have vowed that that will never happen to me again, ever!


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## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> Ugh. I swore never again. And here I am.
> 
> You have no earthly right being resentful of your wife. You are a messed up person who likes to wallow in his yuck and ... shall we say massive piece of work who would rather roll over than face the reality of your situation. I am sympathetic to Uhtred. His attitude is nothing like yours. You, sir, are eminently un f-able. With you, I am more sympathetic to your wife. Not all situations are the same.


DAMN!

That is blunt force to the head...
In such a situation, what does that say about the "self worth" of the wife?
To stay with someone so "un f-able," someone so full of self pity and loathing...?
Seems to me it would take TWO "messed up persons" in a situation such as this.

Not an argument against what was said, but why feel sympathy for the wife here?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

PretzelLogic said:


> DAMN!
> 
> That is blunt force to the head...


Bear in mind that I have been reading this posters stuff for a while. I agree with you though. Mean as all get out. But also on point. He even agrees with me.



> In such a situation, what does that say about the "self worth" of the wife?
> [/quote[]
> We don't get to know this. The thing is, this poster focuses on sex. One might argue the lack of sex is the least of his problems. Well, I might argue that.
> 
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@NobodySpecial is correct. The lack of sex is the least of my problems. I have stopped trying to have sex. I have accepted that the lack of sex is my fault. Has not helped me one bit, because the core of my problem is lack of self-esteem, not lack of sex.

My wife deserves sympathy. Yes, she has been a user. Yes, she thought she got the better deal when we got married. Over time she realizes she did not get nearly as good a deal as she thought she was getting. But we have co-parented well and I have supported her through her illness so she stays and tries to get what she can out of the relationship. That is more deserving of sympathy than me staying out of fear and laziness and not trying to get anything except her continued presence across the restaurant table on weekends.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> It is not just door mat stuff given depression and the like. But, having lived under similar circumstances, it is SOOOOO much easier to live with liking oneself on all levels. Relationships just fall into place. When a person finally decides to invest in themselves FOR themselves, it is a beautiful thing. Focusing on lack of sex seems pretty back-a$$ward when ones personhood is AFU. It is sort of counter productive. But to knowingly decide to just live the remainder of ones one and only life in abject misery makes no sense to me.


I'm very familiar with Holding's story and I think he's made the best of a bad situation.

Not all problems can be fixed; not all stories have a happy ending.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> @NobodySpecial is correct. The lack of sex is the least of my problems. I have stopped trying to have sex. I have accepted that the lack of sex is my fault. Has not helped me one bit, because the core of my problem is lack of self-esteem, not lack of sex.
> 
> My wife deserves sympathy. Yes, she has been a user. Yes, she thought she got the better deal when we got married. Over time she realizes she did not get nearly as good a deal as she thought she was getting. But we have co-parented well and I have supported her through her illness so she stays and tries to get what she can out of the relationship. That is more deserving of sympathy than me staying out of fear and laziness and not trying to get anything except her continued presence across the restaurant table on weekends.


Dude, the first step in solving a problem, is recognizing one exists. Solve your problem and stop being a door mat.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Ynot said:


> I agree. I guess it somewhat understandable if the doormat doesn't understand they are being used as a door mat. But once it has been pointed out to them, and they choose to remain a door mat it kind of makes you wonder how they could ever complain about some one wiping their shoes off on them ever again.
> I was in a sexless marriage, I thought something wasn't right. After all people risk is all just to have it. But I sort of just came to accept it as a way of life. It left me depressed. Once she decided to leave, however, I have come to realize that I was used as door mat and have vowed that that will never happen to me again, ever!


He stopped being a doormat when he decided to never have sex with her again.

So, *that *problem was solved anyway.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> He stopped being a doormat when he decided to never have sex with her again.
> 
> So, *that *problem was solved anyway.


I guess that is one way of looking at it. - to simply accept you are a door mat and call it a day.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Exactly. I have called it a day on my life. Not trying to make it better. Just trying to endure.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> so she stays and tries to get what she can out of the relationship.


Lol.
So what's this say about her?
Forgive me is I'm not a subscriber to this month's issue of "Holding's wife's sympathy' monthly!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> Exactly correct. And that is a big part of why I stay. If I am not going to have sex either way, might as well stay with the mother of my children.


I see it the opposite. If I'm unfable, I'd rather be on my own and do my own thing rather than putting up with someone else's crap. 

If I was on my own, doing my own thing, I may come across some totally pathetic and desperate chic.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@oldshirt: But for the lifetime alimony and the hit to the kids, I might agree with you. Given that all other things are NOT equal if I leave, I would rather share my meals on the weekends with the mother of my children then pay for a freedom I am unlikely to capitalize on. Most weekdays one of us leaves for work early and I don't come home from work until she is in bed and done for the night. On the weekends she works both mornings so basically we go to lunch, maybe see a movie or do a hike, and then she watches tv while I play computer games. Why should I give up half my income just to avoid having someone else in the other room watching tv while I play computer games?

Oh, you think if I wasn't married to H2 I would do something on the weekends besides play computer games? Clearly you did not know me when I was single.

@NobodySpecial has it closest to correct. The amazing thing here is that I convinced a woman to marry me. Not that I remained sexless after H2 said "I do".


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

<popcorn>


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