# Why men avoid marriage counseling...



## xxxSHxYZxxx

I don't know about anyone else but marriage counseling is a total crock. We've got to 4 different counselors over about 5 years and they have all been terrible. The session are all one sided and any issue I would bring up would be down played, brushed off or blamed on me. In my experience it's all about catering to the woman and trying to force the man to conform to her "needs"

Thoughts?

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## Lostinthought61

Its hard to response in generality, you made a blanket statement without specificity, every couple and their issues are different, i'm not sure what the issues are your marriage, i'm not sure if the issue (s) are yours, hers or both....not sure what the primary reason for going to 5 different counselors, not sure what the background is on these individuals are. what i hear is anger and maybe you have cause and maybe you don't.


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## EunuchMonk

@xxxSHxYZxxx

You've been to both male and female counsellors?


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## GuyInColorado

My ex and I went through 4 MC's and it was a waste of time. 2 guys and 2 girls. I hated my wife and had 0 attraction towards her, so it didn't matter. I was just going through the motions and prolonging the inevitable. If you need MC, you are doomed.


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## GTdad

It's not universally true. I grew up with classic Catholic guilt; it seemed like every damn thing was my fault. If it wasn't me telling myself that, it was certain that somebody would step up to the plate, and eventually that person was my wife.

We eventually went to MC. It was my wife's idea, and I was pretty reluctant. I didn't really need to hear how everything was my fault from some stranger. But imagine my wife's and my surprise when the counselor told us that my position was pretty solid and my wife had some things to address.

It was kind of gratifying. Of course, it was also the last time my wife wanted to do MC ...


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## jb02157

I agree totally, marriage counseling is a total crock and waste of money. It's all based on the premise the man is always wrong and knows only how to do wrong. Me and my wife tried it and I walked after the first session. Guess who was blamed for everything.


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## stixx

This post really resonated with me because I went the route of marriage counseling. We went to a few different therapists but changed after only a few sessions each time. 

Why? Because even though they emphasized they would be neutral and not take sides my exwife said they all took my side.

Why? Because she was completely unreasonable in almost every way. 

If you have been to 4 counselors and they all say it's your fault either you go to really bad counselors that take your husbands side for no good reason or else they're trying to suggest you need to rethink whether you are at fault for some or most of the problems in your marriage. 

I know my exwife sure was and she could have written the very first post!


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## Relationship Teacher

xxxSHxYZxxx said:


> I don't know about anyone else but marriage counseling is a total crock. We've got to 4 different counselors over about 5 years and they have all been terrible. The session are all one sided and any issue I would bring up would be down played, brushed off or blamed on me. In my experience it's all about catering to the woman and trying to force the man to conform to her "needs"
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


#1: They should not bring their values into the session. "Counseling" requires listening and trying to guide individuals towards solutions. Even if the counselor is right, they are a person of authority and can create additional problems in the relationship if they go over the line. They are not referees or judges.


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## Almost-Done

If you and your partner are at the point of MC, chances are it's a failure. I learned this the hard way. I actually saw my ex-wife change a few years ago and immediately offered to see a MC to help us. She was shocked, but agreed. We went to 3 different MCs. They told us we just grew apart (understatement). We could come back to each other if both of us tried. The key word is BOTH. 

Here's a test. You DO you (I.E. The 180). If she comes to you and wants to work on the marriage, then it can be saved. If she does nothing and walks away, it's already dead brother. Just file and move on. It's hard, no doubt. I was wrestling with the decision for over a year. However, for both of our sanity, it had to be done. There is no question I loved my ex-wife deeply. However, the feelings were clearly not the same. As the old saying goes, if you love her, let her go. That is what I exactly did...


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## Vinnydee

A good friend of mine was a marriage counselor with a Ph.d in Psychology. His wife cheated on him and divorced him. He now counsels prison inmates for a company that has a huge contract with the State prison system. He told me that they have no idea what happens to couples after a year when they stop counseling, because all studies only follow the couple for only one year. Even told me that he sees a therapist. 

Personally I feel that no one is going to change an adult's basic personality or nature. What happens is that the MC shows the couple how to act, not really changes them. The couple does what they learned to do but sooner or later their true self will emerge. If MC were so effective we would not have a 50% divorce rate. Couples would know that it is the be all and fix all of marriage and just go to a MC to fix their marriage. I never knew one couple who stayed married much longer after MC. They try to use what they learned, but it is not who they really are and it fails at some point.

My wife and I simply relied on our love to works things out. I have not asked her to change and she has not asked me to change. We realize that no two people can fulfill all of the other's wants and needs and we allowed for that in our marriage. Luckily we both found the same person to fulfill the needs we could not fulfill for each other. That provided all three of us with a very rich and fulfilling life and no one was hurt in the process.

I see MC as speed bump on the way to divorce. It is grasping at straws. I think women are more likely to suggest it because many marry guys thinking that they can change them. If you research this you will see this as a common reason for why women marry men who have traits that they do not like. What you see is what you get when you marry. However one of the things that the mix of chemicals in our brain that we call love does, is to blind us to each other's faults for 2 or 3 years. Take a look at this which explains the different phases of love:

How long does passion last? The four stages of love - TODAY.com


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## arbitrator

xxxSHxYZxxx said:


> I don't know about anyone else but marriage counseling is a total crock. We've got to 4 different counselors over about 5 years and they have all been terrible. The session are all one sided and any issue I would bring up would be down played, brushed off or blamed on me. In my experience it's all about catering to the woman and trying to force the man to conform to her "needs"
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


*Not only do men hate them, but a plethora of women hate MC's too!

My thoughts on the subject are that whoever books the MC, usually gets a leg up on having the counselor ultimately side with them!

And if you happen to disagree, then just ask my RSXW!*


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

I think some people are missing what I'm saying. So I'll try and clarify.

My wife would dominate the session and only her issues would be discussed. If I had an opportunity to bring up an issue I was having it would be down played, brushed off I would be blamed for the issues I had with my wife. The blaming part was rare but it happend. While going to the last counselor I expressed my concern about how I felt like the sessions were one sided and whatnot several times. How it the focus was always on her issues and we would never discuss the issues I was having beyond me saying "hey I'm having a big problem with this and this". After bring it up a few times the counselor flat out told me. "We'll she's the one that wants a divorce so we need to discuss her problems so she doesn't leave you". We both decided to stop going after that.

Eventually what it took was for my wife to want a separation and for me to refuse to leave. Basically I manned up and stopped chasing her. I was still in love with my wife and wanted to work things out but I was done being the only one. So we separated and I didn't leave. After awhile she realized that I was willing to let her go and that a lot of it was because of her. We've been trying to work it out since and things are looking way better now that she's actually putting in effort


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## stixx

Well if she's the one who wanted out then of course the marriage counseling sessions are going to address her issues because she's the one complaining. When you go to the dentist with a toothache and your wife goes with you they're looking inside of your mouth not hers!


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## Almost-Done

xxxSHxYZxxx said:


> I think some people are missing what I'm saying. So I'll try and clarify.
> 
> My wife would dominate the session and only her issues would be discussed. If I had an opportunity to bring up an issue I was having it would be down played, brushed off I would be blamed for the issues I had with my wife. The blaming part was rare but it happend. While going to the last counselor I expressed my concern about how I felt like the sessions were one sided and whatnot several times. How it the focus was always on her issues and we would never discuss the issues I was having beyond me saying "hey I'm having a big problem with this and this". After bring it up a few times the counselor flat out told me. "We'll she's the one that wants a divorce so we need to discuss her problems so she doesn't leave you". We both decided to stop going after that.
> 
> Eventually what it took was for my wife to want a separation and for me to refuse to leave. Basically I manned up and stopped chasing her. I was still in love with my wife and wanted to work things out but I was done being the only one. So we separated and I didn't leave. After awhile she realized that I was willing to let her go and that a lot of it was because of her. We've been trying to work it out since and things are looking way better now that she's actually putting in effort
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


We've all been there. However, my wife never openly threatened divorce. I did, however, tell her if we cannot work things out and act like husband and wife, a divorce is most certainly going to happen. I commend you (and your wife) for seeing that she was causing the issues and is working on herself and the marriage to try and repair it. It's very rare that a woman in crisis will realize there part of the marital breakdown and attempt to fix it. That is a huge sign. Wish I had that instead of a cold, resentful angry woman. 

All in all, you have hope in saving your marriage.


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## stixx

I remember in marriage counseling the therapist listened to both of us and then looked to me and said "she's got her hands up it's like a wall and in order for this marriage to move forward we need to break down that wall." I recall at the time I would be perfectly good with never seeing this woman again but I'd lose too much in terms of money and not seeing my kids so I was willing to put up with just about anything but seeing her sitting there nodding with the therapist about how I was the one with the problem made me want to punch her in the face multiple times. 

In other words, if one party clearly wants out and the other is ok with the status quo, then the one who is not complaining is the one who has the burden to change. 

So while it may seem like you are being blamed and your wife is dominating all the sessions- it makes perfectly good sense because you're the one with the burden and she's the one who has all the complaints to air out. Sure you have issues to air too, but they're only coming up because you're in MC because she wants out. So they're not really the cause of the bigger problem and therefore they won't be addressed as readily. 

You see it as being blamed and not getting your fair share of therapy time, I see it as "this guy's stubborn and not aware of what's going on here".


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## tigerlily99

When my H and I went to MC we had a really good experience. Our counselor seemed to really have a gift for addressing both of our needs and also to call out the areas that needed work with straightforwardness and humor. She had been doing it for 30 years though so I think we were blessed or lucky that we found her. 
She helped us both a lot. (We were dealing with my EA and H didn't want to D but he didn't know how to get through it.) 
That was 4 years ago and we are doing well in our R. We give her a lot of credit for helping us see things we needed to see. 
But I personally give H even more credit for being willing to stay with me and work things out!


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## Mr The Other

Men avoid marriage counselling as they assume they will be blamed. Women like it for the same reason. 

If you cannot make it work, that chances of the third party being able to help. I recall from relationship break-ups, you could talk and talk, but once she was dumped she would want to listen. Of course, had she been willing to listen in the first place we would not have broken up.

MC was great for me, but only because we did it in Denmark with a Danish counselor. They have the same expectations of men and women, so my wifes assumptions made her jaw drop on occasion (and she promptly closed it again to look neutral). That reassured me that I was the sane one.

We briefly went with a an English one afterwards, who was keen to declare me the devil himself as my wife felt pressured to contribute to the marriage.


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## uhtred

Went once with my wife, but the counselor really didn't have anything useful to add. We were there over a disagreement on whether or not to have children and the counselor really did't have much to suggest - we were both being rational, just disagreed.


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## katiecrna

I think counseling can be great but at the right time and for the right reasons. When one person wants a divorce and seeks therapy as a last stitch resort I don't think it's very helpful. I think therapy is good when you sense problems arising and want nip it in the butt and address it there. 
Many people tell me that they wish they went to MC sooner, that maybe then their marriage was fixable. When you don't fix problems and fine tune things they grow and become huge problems. Resentment sets in, and one person just gives up because there are just too many issues to overcome it's not worth it. But at one time, the couple was happy and the issues were less. So to go from that to divorce perhaps means that there wasn't enough fine tuning along the way. Who knows.


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## katiecrna

I don't want a divorce, my husband doesn't want a divorce. But I am requesting MC because we don't communicate well, and my goal is that we can find someone that can give us the right tools and understanding to help us communicate better. Before it gets any worse.


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## MovingForward

My experience was I just paid to have my STBXW tell me all my issues and give me no chance to talk and then refuse to go to another session, she has told me since she is sorry for her part but never actually told me what her part was. 

I think there comes a certain point where its too late and some spouses just go to say "i did everything i could' or I tried so hard' to help there conscience or to be able to show other people they 'tried'.

If you are having some communication issues and both want to work it out then maybe it could be a good thing, but I have not had a good experience.


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## xxxSHxYZxxx

Almost-Done said:


> We've all been there. However, my wife never openly threatened divorce. I did, however, tell her if we cannot work things out and act like husband and wife, a divorce is most certainly going to happen. I commend you (and your wife) for seeing that she was causing the issues and is working on herself and the marriage to try and repair it. It's very rare that a woman in crisis will realize there part of the marital breakdown and attempt to fix it. That is a huge sign. Wish I had that instead of a cold, resentful angry woman.
> 
> All in all, you have hope in saving your marriage.


Oh my wife threatened divorce but instead of chasing her like I used to it was OK with letting her go. I was willing to work things out but I was done feeling like I was the only one that wanted it. After 9 months of in home separation, which I think was easier on my than it was for her, she came back we had a looking talk and we've been working on repairing our marriage ever since. I don't feel like the only one that wants to be married anymore. It's been over a year since we decided to reconcile and we're still working on repairing the damage but we're finally working together and I'm ok with it. If she stops and I have to start basically begins her to work with me then I'm calling it quits. I think she knows this. 

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## _anonymous_

xxxSHxYZxxx said:


> marriage counseling is a total crock. it's all about catering to the woman and trying to force the man to conform to her "needs"


Experiences will vary. Back before I got married, my wife and I received counseling from an older couple in our church working in the marriage ministry. While this is not "professional" counseling, I think what happened to us is very explanatory of the perceived usefulness (or uselessness) of professional counseling.

In a nutshell, the couple agreed with me on most things and it really pissed off my future wife. Not only did she discount all of their advice and labeled it as useless, but also, she accused me of vilifying her. To me, the lesson seemed pretty clear:

If a counselor takes a side, and the person on the opposite side isn't receptive to the idea that he or she is wrong (at least in part), it will lead to his or her discounting of the advice. If furthermore, the person on the opposite side disagrees with how his or her spouse represented the marital conflict to guide the counselor's opinion, it will lead to the premise of vilification.

If both husband and wife go into counseling with the right attitude (both people accepting some culpability), if they both believe the counseling will help (are ready to work and think the marriage is salvageable), and if the counselor is not overly partial to either husband or wife, I think counseling can actually be helpful. But only under these conditions, few of which are known a priori.

My wife and I just went to a preliminary session with a "professional" counselor, and I'm predicting doom. The wife is already signaling she doesn't think she needs counseling and I'm the one mostly at fault; she's already is fierce disagreement with my perspective of our conflict; and she's labeling me (in advance) as a vilifying wretched man (her words are less harsh, but idea is the same). Oh, and she hates the counselor. 

For apparent reasons, I predict utter failure, and I assume given the wife's state most MC would result in the same. If people don't have the right attitudes going in, failure is almost guaranteed. But MC is not a complete waste of money. Anyone who goes reaps benefits in the long-term, should their marriage crash and burn. It's a check in the box of "I tried".


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## FeministInPink

I agree, @_anonymous_. Whether or not it works really depends on the two individuals. If they both enter with the mindset that no one is to blame, but they both bear some responsibility for their problems and want to improve upon their unhealthy behaviors and fix the marriage, I think it can work.

But if one person isn't open, or has an agenda, or thinks that all the blame lay with the other person, then it's over before it's begun.


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## DayOne

We did marriage counselling. Several times, with different counsellors. But it never really helped us.

Because, as we eventually realised, post D-Day, that WE weren't the problem. It took IC, rather than MC, to figure out our own issues, which were where the problems affecting us lay. 

THEN we were able to try working together again. Successfully.


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## jb02157

_anonymous_ said:


> Experiences will vary. Back before I got married, my wife and I received counseling from an older couple in our church working in the marriage ministry. While this is not "professional" counseling, I think what happened to us is very explanatory of the perceived usefulness (or uselessness) of professional counseling.
> 
> In a nutshell, the couple agreed with me on most things and it really pissed off my future wife. Not only did she discount all of their advice and labeled it as useless, but also, she accused me of vilifying her. To me, the lesson seemed pretty clear:
> 
> If a counselor takes a side, and the person on the opposite side isn't receptive to the idea that he or she is wrong (at least in part), it will lead to his or her discounting of the advice. If furthermore, the person on the opposite side disagrees with how his or her spouse represented the marital conflict to guide the counselor's opinion, it will lead to the premise of vilification.
> 
> If both husband and wife go into counseling with the right attitude (both people accepting some culpability), if they both believe the counseling will help (are ready to work and think the marriage is salvageable), and if the counselor is not overly partial to either husband or wife, I think counseling can actually be helpful. But only under these conditions, few of which are known a priori.
> 
> My wife and I just went to a preliminary session with a "professional" counselor, and I'm predicting doom. The wife is already signaling she doesn't think she needs counseling and I'm the one mostly at fault; she's already is fierce disagreement with my perspective of our conflict; and she's labeling me (in advance) as a vilifying wretched man (her words are less harsh, but idea is the same). Oh, and she hates the counselor.
> 
> For apparent reasons, I predict utter failure, and I assume given the wife's state most MC would result in the same. If people don't have the right attitudes going in, failure is almost guaranteed. But MC is not a complete waste of money. Anyone who goes reaps benefits in the long-term, should their marriage crash and burn. It's a check in the box of "I tried".


Case in point, marriage counseling is mainly a woman oriented way to pass blame on men for all martial ills. I think it has little to do with attitudes, more with the agenda of the woman and counselor going in. It's more like a "kangaroo court". It's a pretty expensive, but at times necessary "Yeah, ok we tried but didn't help " check box exercise. The counselor has nothing at stake. He/she gets paid irregardless of what happens. What is the motivation of the counselor, then, to be helpful?


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## _anonymous_

jb02157 said:


> The counselor has nothing at stake. He/she gets paid irregardless of what happens. What is the motivation of the counselor, then, to be helpful?


Typical principal-agent problem. I trust that counselors have chosen the profession to help couples, but to your point, there is questionable motivation.


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## jb02157

_anonymous_ said:


> Typical principal-agent problem. I trust that counselors have chosen the profession to help couples, but to your point, there is questionable motivation.


When I was going to college (sometime back in the Jurassic Age) I heard many people wanted to go into marriage counseling solely based on how much money they make.


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## FeministInPink

DayOne said:


> We did marriage counselling. Several times, with different counsellors. But it never really helped us.
> 
> Because, as we eventually realised, post D-Day, that WE weren't the problem. It took IC, rather than MC, to figure out our own issues, which were where the problems affecting us lay.
> 
> THEN we were able to try working together again. Successfully.


I think MC works much better when done in conjunction with IC. Because problems in a marriage are frequently due to personal issues and behaviors that can't be resolved in MC alone.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Why men avoid marriage counseling...


... the same reason we don't like asking for directions I suspect


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## _anonymous_

FeministInPink said:


> I think MC works much better when done in conjunction with IC. Because problems in a marriage are frequently due to personal issues and behaviors that can't be resolved in MC alone.


I'm going to echo agreement here. I went to IC under the premise that my marital conflict was one part wholly me, another part wholly her, and the rest wholly us (2-body problems). 

Turns out the IC helped me work on my problems, and I'm very confident I could save my marriage if my wife did her own IC along with us both going to MC with the right attitudes.

In general, I would guess that a perception (by either spouse) that the marriage isn't salvageable damns MC to failure. I fear that my marriage isn't salvageable (and hence, perceive it), and for this reason, I wonder if I'm contributing to our MC ultimately not being effective. Perhaps my attitude needs adjustment...

Interestingly enough, my attitude did not prevent me from benefiting in IC. This makes for an important point: anyone who is is in a troubled marriage and believes they are part of the problem should go to IC for help. While IC won't save a marriage on its own, it will help a person as long as he or she is willing to fix their individual parts of the marriage problem.


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## FeministInPink

_anonymous_ said:


> I'm going to echo agreement here. I went to IC under the premise that my marital conflict was one part wholly me, another part wholly her, and the rest wholly us (2-body problems).
> 
> Turns out the IC helped me work on my problems, and I'm very confident I could save my marriage if my wife did her own IC along with us both going to MC with the right attitudes.
> 
> *In general, I would guess that a perception (by either spouse) that the marriage isn't salvageable damns MC to failure. *I fear that my marriage isn't salvageable (and hence, perceive it), and for this reason, I wonder if I'm contributing to our MC ultimately not being effective. Perhaps my attitude needs adjustment...
> 
> Interestingly enough, my attitude did not prevent me from benefiting in IC. This makes for an important point: anyone who is is in a troubled marriage and believes they are part of the problem should go to IC for help. While IC won't save a marriage on its own, it will help a person as long as he or she is willing to fix their individual parts of the marriage problem.


THIS. Both partners have to believe it can be fixed. If one partner's already given up, there is no point in trying.


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## _anonymous_

FeministInPink said:


> THIS. Both partners have to believe it can be fixed. If one partner's already given up, there is no point in trying.


This is where things become tricky. If I believe there's a recipe for MC to be successful (as mentioned in my previous posts), and that recipe requires two people maintaining certain attitudes and a certain willingness to work at the relationship, then my wife's perceived refusal of doing these things automatically puts me in a mode where the MC no longer works. Under the circumstances, it's inevitable.


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