# whats best - be nice or get tough?



## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

i wondered what people think is the best approach to dealing with their spouse who has separated, and who want a divorce and to move on..

for example my wife has basically kicked me out of house and says can only see kids on certain days, taken of wedding rings and is paying nothing towards mortgage or the credit cards..she is basically doing what she likes and having a great time..or so it seems

Is it better to be friendly, happy and do the 180...act as if dont care and focus on myself...let her carry on getting the house ready to sell and leave her to it...in the hope she may start to see me differently and change mind?...its been nearly 2 months and she is still acting as if its all my fault and insisting its all going ahead..the house sale and us divorcing..

or is it better to get tough and move back into house (the kids would love this!), tell her if she wants the separation then go and find a place of her own (even help her do it, she gave me a list of bedsits!) and sort the house out myself for selling?...i know she will go mad if i do this and it will cause a great deal of anger on her part...i wouldnt be trying to spite her and would try and keep it amicable as much as possible..

I dont want us to separate but i have moved on a bit and im wondering if i should start taking some control over the house and finances...also i think she has told everyone i moved out voluntarily and so would scupper those lies.

I wondered what people on here thought was the best approach in these situations....nicey nicey and hope all turns out well or take back some control and self respect but risk starting a bigger war!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yes thats what i was thinking, but i know she will not want it to happen and will become angry....this will make her see me in an even worse light than she already does

i just wonder if it will damage the chances of reconcilliation long term or if im just worrying about it to much and what will happen will happen anyway regardless of what i do now


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## paleview (May 11, 2011)

I feel for you. I have kids and am in the same boat. Only my X is the angry one. Just be calm no matter how much it hurts - be nice - too nice and eventually it will break them. Trust me its hard but it works.

I wish you luck - and my prayers go out to you.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks, so you would advocate the nice way, let her stay in the house and just leave things be for now?...give her space and time ...rather than move back and make her do the leaving?

its my wife who will be angry if i move back..she gets angry with me now if i dont do what she wants...when it should be me whos still angry !


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

So, she is angry, wants out, gets what she wants; and there are no consequences for her? I don't think this is the way to go. I do not advocate confrontation but in your case I would say for you to move back. And as far as you only seeing the kids on certain days - wow. There may be more to this story that we don't know but going from the information on your post I would: Move back to the house and ask her to move out. Ask her very nicely like sadand said.
Tell her that you will see your children whenever you or they want to see each other; they are as much your children as they are hers. Besides, she is not just hurting you by telling you can only see them on certain days, she is hurting them as well.

I don't see how she can cause all of this and then there are no consequences for it. If she gets more mad so be it, she is already mad anyway. If she doesn't see that there are consequesnces to her actions then there is no reason for her to change. If she is so angry that she can't find some type of peace, then pray for her, she is doing it to herself. Let her know, in a kind way, that whenever she can have a civil conversation with you that would like to talk.

Keep in mind that I don't know all the particulars - you never mentioned why she is so angry. If you have done something to her, your children, cheated on her, etc. then you moving out makes sense. Otherwise, she should be the one to leave. Just my .02 worth.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks for the reply....no there has been no cheating or anything really that warrants this in my opinion....

We have always squabbled but we got married and had 2 kids and have been together for 17 years.

the story is on another thread but basically my father died 5 years ago and i persuaded her to move back to my parents to help with farm etc...she hated it and we had alot of stress, she argued with my mother, selling and buying a house, i was away working alot as had a long drive after we moved, then we bought a house that needed alot of work doing on it and we ran up large credit card debts trying to get some of the work done...she was depressed and resentful of it all and i got depressed and angry and we argued and she then decided she wanted out..

she has always been quite insecure and found it hard to make friends, but with my encouragement and meeting mothers at the school she has made new friends and basically thinks that she would be happier without me....she refuses to listen, to go to counselling or to reconsider...she wants out ..final...i dont think there is anyone else involved, but i cant be 100% sure

it all seems incredulous to me...i cant beleive that she could be so utterly selfish..she sees and hears the kids crying for me to stay and she just rolls her eyes...

This was the email she sent yesterday...basically our son has a party on saturday (which is the day she told me i could have the kids)...she offered that i can take him to the party on saturday and our daughter go to my mums or she will take him and i have the kids all day sunday...normally i would have said fine, as i get to see them more, but i cant do sunday this week...so i said i would rather look after our daughter for those 2 hours rather than spend the time talking to other dads and she can take him to the party...she wasnt happy...apparantly saturday is her day of from the kids, but i pointed out to her that it was her decision to separate and so she would have to take responsibility for her decisions...and that it wasnt that i was being difficult but i genuinely couldnt make sunday..she wasnt happy and threw a tantrum...then sent the email below the next day..

""""I have been thinking about our discussion last night and I think you are being unreasonable. You should be thinking about J not what would be easiest for you or what you might think will irritate me the most.

I think that you are right we must stick to the rules, you have the kids on Saturday, therefore that should stay the same, however I think that the kids are always going to be invited to parties and therefore it is unreasonable to suggest that I have to deal with all of them even those which fall on your days?!

Either you are having the kids Saturday and are responsible for them on that day or you are not. As the party falls on the Saturday I think you should be responsible for taking him, I will of course provide the card/present and his sports kit. If you do not willing to take on full responsibility for them then I think we will have to skip you having the kids this weekend""""

i can see her point, but tbh im not trying to be difficult and also i think she created this situation so she should face up to the consequences....i sent a txt saying...please dont threaten me as its not fair on me or the kids, and basically saying in a nice way that i will look after our daughter on saturday and she will have to go to party....theres been no reply since

how did our relationship get to this ...its very sad


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's my firm belief that the person who wants out should be the one to leave.
So move back home. If she doesn't like it, she can leave. 
If nothing changes, file for divorce but don't leave your home. The courts will see that as abandonment and generally think you left your home so it was not that important to you. 
Oh and being NICE to someone who kicked you out, won't help pay for the house and unilaterally decided the end of your relationship/separation = HELL NO.

GET TOUGH FAST.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> It's my firm belief that the person who wants out should be the one to leave.
> So move back home. If she doesn't like it, she can leave.
> If nothing changes, file for divorce but don't leave your home. The courts will see that as abandonment and generally think you left your home so it was not that important to you.
> Oh and being NICE to someone who kicked you out, won't help pay for the house and unilaterally decided the end of your relationship/separation = HELL NO.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Get tough. You should also try and move back home, she doesn't actually have the right to kick you out.

Cut off the money until you get results.

Call for legal help.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

ilovemywife7 said:


> thanks for the reply....no there has been no cheating or anything really that warrants this in my opinion....
> 
> We have always squabbled but we got married and had 2 kids and have been together for 17 years.
> 
> ...



So she offers to take son to party and when you take her up on that she gets mad? She wants a day off. She changed the agreement not you (your day is Saturday - can't do Sunday) and then gets mad when you don't roll over and accomodate her. Giving in to her is getting you where? Don't need to be a jerk (not saying you are), but you have to stick up for yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea thats basically it...she talks about agreeing with me sticking to the rules, but i never said that...i didnt mention rules...its her rules that she now expects me to follow..

I agree that i think i need to start standing up to her...i have been letting her get away with a bad attitude to try and not 'rock the boat'..but as someone elss pointed out..she is already rocking the boat.

its amazing, i have been ringing each evening to speak to kids and sometimes theres been no answer when i ring when i know they should be there as i know the times they are back from school etc...i was worried sometimes as i wondered where they were...turns out she has not been answering phone if they are sat at table having tea!...and then doesnt ring me back

My other concern with moving back in is that it may give my daughter false hope that daddy is back and all is going to be normal again...and then we separate again...but i guess if my wife does the leaving its on her conscience...

I think i will try and talk to her about it and suggest i come over and do some of the DIY and see how it goes


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

sadand said:


> But what does tough get you? I have loved my H for 29 years, he is the one who moved out, but i don't want our marriage to end. He is experiencing some kind of crisis and the last thing I want to do is give him ammunition to use in his mind against me.


Tough means standing up for yourself and don't let her walk all over him. I know what it's like to be with someone a long time, I was with my W 36 yrs and I still care for her and did not want this, but she asked for it because she is "unhappy." The difference with us is that we are both on decent terms and neither one of us is disrespecting each other right now so I am in a different boat. If she were being nasty to me and setting rules - I would get "tough" and make sure she new that as long as there is no respect and we don't establish civil boundaries, there will be no nicey nicey and she would have to be the one to move out. I have no qualms letting her know that she did this and it was her that wanted it so she needs to go not me. But anyway, we are not going there so no need for that but for ILMY7, it's a whole different thing. Begining with the fact that no court has given her the right to remove him from his children - no way would I settle for that, her and my kids were my life; she can take one away but NEVER the other.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The best thing you can do is stop what ever the hell youv'e been doing for the last few months.

I don't think its working.

Grand dad always said if you can't fix it with a hammer then get a different hammer. Point is your actions are not working and it seems to be getting worse. So try something different.

Granted you get more bees with honey...but squecky wheel getts the oil. Again It looks like you really aren't getting any were, so go ahead and make that change.

Let your wife know that the current situation is not working and you need to make some changes. Until her concerns are more towards the repairing of the family dynamics you are not concerned with her input. Until there is a seperation order, you will do what you feel is best for the family. Again until her agenda is directly related to the family as a whole and not her selfish need for :space" or "time" then you will make the disicions.

This is a very dangerous game b/c if you think she's mean now just what until you stand up for your self and your kids. I mean you will need serious protection. I'm talking pocket recorders and witnesses. and never be alone with her. the last thing you want is her slambing her own head in the wall and blaming you. 

So please do not go off half ****ed and start demanding thing like moving back in. Get a game plan and involve others (witnesses). Make an outline so you are prepared for when she starts pushing your buttons. 

I believe you diserve to be back home but since you left, getting back will need planning. Planning that will protect you during and after you're back in.

So be careful there are so many ways this can go south on you. But you have been way to nice so get back home before some dude is reading your Sunday paper, in your Lazyboy, and in your bathrobe.

Good luck, make a plan and work the plan


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

The guy is right on. Get yourself a plan and take precautions. Don't let her call the shots though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks for the advice, i agree i need a plan...

just to update i went over to house at weekend and she was refusing to take my son to the party still, and said if i didnt take him she would contact all mothers and tell them he now couldnt go to anymore parties that were on a saturday!...so i took him ...

but before leaving i told her it wasnt fair all the changes that she was doing to the house...her family have cut doen trees in garden, it transpired that plasterer was coming on that day to do work on the house that i didnt know about etc..

she said she wasnt a child and didnt see why she had to tell me, she just wants to get house finished to sell..

so i reminded her that i own half and i didnt think it was right all the sneaking around behind my back..and then i took the kids and left

anyway when i took kids back that evening she was more relaxed...she asked for help putting boxes in loft and showed me painting she had done and said how she had sprained her neck doing it...we had a little bit of a laugh about it...she told me what she was planning to do in garden when her family come down again in a few weeks and asked if i could fix some of the electrics in June when i will stay over to look after kids while she is away at a 'take that' concert.

I said i would but pointed out it wasnt really neccesary to sell house..i then asked what month she had planned to put it up for sale...and she seemed bit surprised and said she hadnt really thought about when, just that she thought that she would get it finished and then it should sell anytime of the year...

I dont want to read to much into this...i dont think her plan has changed since we spoke, just the time scales...this work she has asked me to do is on a day when she is away, sometime in the future.

Its interesting that she will think about and argue about the fairness of what she is doing to the house, but she will not discuss or acknowledge the fact that she wont let me see kids...

Whenever she answers the door and when i leave she wont make eye contact and her attitude towards me changes, she becomes very formal and cold..

anyway, i have sorted out the finances finally, all of the credit cards are now on a joint loan that means the payments are more managable...this is a relief as they were all in my name!..although they were all used for work on the house...so at least the debt is now in joint names which is fair :smthumbup:


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

My situation is much the same, even the part about forcing my wife to move to my home town even though she was against it. The resentment from this move is the main reason for her wanting to leave me. 

We are separated but still living in same house for now. She will be moving out in a month after our daughter graduates from school.

Although she is the one that wants to end our marriage, I almost moved out to spare her the pain of moving out; classis Mr. Nice Guy move…. I wanted to be nice to her so I went looking for another place, but when moving day came I was not emotionally strong enough to go through with it, so I stayed.

Since then I had a change of heart, so now she will have to be the one to leave since she is the one that want to end it.

I initially tried the nice guy approach; nothing. Then I tried the get tough 180 approach; still nothing. So now I am trying the get real approach. The get real approach for me means to accept the reality of the situation. Listen to what she is saying and take note of what she is doing, and accept it as reality. Don’t try to read into anything. Take everything at face value.

I am putting my needs before hers, taking care of myself, doing whatever needs to be done to reduce my stress level, growing a pair, leaving the alcohol alone, exercising more, sleeping better, spending more time with the kids, working in the garden, being more productive at work, and playing more golf with my buddies on weekends. 

The result is I feel much better physically, emotionally, and mentally than a couple of weeks ago (a year ago I was on medication for depression). My relationship with my wife has not changed, but I am feeling so much better. 

So, of all the strategies I have tried so far, this one seems to be doing me the most good. Only time will tell if it will have any impact on our relationship. If she leaves next month, I feel I will be better prepared to deal with it and move on with my life much quicker than before. This is a very important to me because of all the pain and suffering I have been through over the past year, so I am happy with the get real approach so far.

Based on my experience, my advice to you is to get real. Accept the likelihood that you marriage is over and it’s time to let her go and move on. Look after yourself. Put all your time and energy into taking care of yourself, your kids, and the things that are important to you in your life. 

Your wife will do as she pleases and you have no control over that. The sooner you mentally move on, the sooner you will start feeling like you are alive again. It’s a great feeling to feel alive. :smthumbup:


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Dude, Troy, right on the mark. Same things I've been doing. Only for me it seems like the more I do what you mention in your post the more ticked off she seems to get. :scratchhead:

Why is it that I still feel like I want what is best for her. I am going around trying to keep the family from being so angry and bitter towards her that I find myself defending her every step of the way so that we can all get along and that she can truly be happy, but I can not find a happy medium. It seems like emotions are up and down all over the place and at different times. I am trying to juggle all these balls while at the same time keeping my heart in check. Well, I still love her and want/ed things to be different but she called down the thunder and it hit us all. I am working on myself but at the same time working on getting the house ready for sale and we have not even started yet to work on our finances. It's limbo land for me. I have a golf tournament scheduled for Friday and quite honestly, my heart's not even in it.


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

brighterlight said:


> I have a golf tournament scheduled for Friday and quite honestly, my heart's not even in it.


I have a golf tournament tomorrow and I usually forget about my problems after the first two holes, especially if I am playing well.

Spoke to the wife last night and its Limbo land for me for another couple of weeks, then no more Limbo land, hopefully. Until then, I will just be pleasant to keep the peace in the house. When reality sets in that will be the end of trying to keep the peace and being nice. Then it will be time to face the music and I feel I am ready for it. It won't be nice, but I am ready.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

wow, thats exactly the conclusion i was coming to as well...im starting to think the 180 is basically what any marriage guidance counsellor would say...its over and move on with your own life...i guess we hope that it may be a method to help save our marriages but its not really about that at the end of the day..

i think you were right to stay in the house Troy, i wonder if i should have done that, but i hoped she would miss me if i left...so far its not happening.

apparantly she is 'feeling hard done by' and annoyed with herself for not being 'brave' enough to leave me sooner!...its amazing, i know she has been telling everyone that i am angry with her and blaming her when it 'clearly isnt her fault'???, but this hasnt been the case and I have actually been trying to be light hearted about it and been making an effort to communicate amicably....but she just seems very angry with me still and avoids talking to me when i am there as much as possible..

then last night on the night i am allowed over to put kids to bed she asked if i could babysit while she went to babmington..i had said i would do this on alternate weeks for her as i go out on tuesday nights as well to a club since we split up...i asked her last week and she said she didnt feel up to it..so i said i couldnt do it this week as i had already arranged to go out...so then shes saying its unfair i get to go out one night a week (i go out training on a wednesday night as well) and she has to stay in each night with kids!!??...so i just said 'well you get to put the kids to bed every night?'...and then she went of and sulked in her room for an hour while i put them to bed!...

I am planning to present a new financial package to her next week which should go down well...basically i am paying all mortgage and loan and living in a friends flat or at my mums at moment and spiraling deeper into my overdraft...while she just pays the utilities for our house she is living in...she also pays for stuff for kids, clothes etc...but has also been out shopping for clothes for herself..i have spoken to a solicitior and put together a fairer deal where she pays half mortgage and loan and i pay maintenece towards children..it means she is paying less than she would in rent for a similar sized property and should give her enough money to live on comfortably without crippling me..

but again i suspect this will be twisted and exagerated and i will be blamed to her family and friends as making her life harder...when im just trying to be fair...

my friends and family think she is taking the p*ss and i should make things tougher for her...they think she may start to wake up to reality once she has to start doing something other than talk...im not so sure, but for now i think i just have to start thinking about myself more


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

re-reading my message makes me realise that maybe its as a counsellor told me, that neither of us know how to resolve conflict ...i think this is probably the problem now....she may well believe what she is saying to everyone, that i am making things hard for her as she probably has a very different perspective on it to me...and i am looking at it from my perspective (which of course is the right one  ) and seeing her as being manipulative and selfish ....its a pity i cant get her to go to counselling as i think this would help us alot....or maybe i am just being to nice again!


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## Rico (Jul 28, 2010)

I totally relate with your story man. My STBX wants me to move out. I have tried to be nice, cordial, remorseful, tried to reconcile. Nothing works. My lawyer told me by no means do I leave the house unless there is a written agreement stating what and if I have financial responsibilities to the home once i do leave. The mortgage is under both our names. In any case to respond to your question. Be nice if you want to, in my case it didnt get me anywhere cause I'm living in a miserable situation. I finally decided to dish it out as much as she is and for her to tell you when you can or cannot see your kids, the hell with that. Those are your kids as much as hers and nothing should ever get in the way of you seeing your children. if I were you I would tell her, ok you want to stay in the house, go ahead, with it comes all the bills, have fun with that.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, thats what i will do on saturday i will ask her to start paying a fair share of the bills...

i cant understand why she is so angry with me still, even though i have moved out and im keeping to her 'rules'...its like i did something terrible to her and she cant forgive me...its all very weird...i should be the one whos acting pi**ed of...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ All waywards act angry and entitled. It's part of the Script.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

I guess so...she tells her parents she 'feels hard done by' and annoyed she 'wasnt brave enough to leave me sooner'...

that said the DIY is not moving very quickly and she has gone from saying she wants it done asap to sell house, to now not wanting to rush or having thought about when she will put the house up for sale...

the only satisfying thing is that after years of me doing it she has finally painted a ceiling (once) and pulled a muscle in her neck...i know, i shouldnt laugh!


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ilovemywife7 said:


> the only satisfying thing is that after years of me doing it she has finally painted a ceiling (once) and pulled a muscle in her neck...i know, i shouldnt laugh!


:rofl:

Oops sorry, I shouldn't laugh either. ILMW, I think I figured them out, maybe, JB says all waywards think this way and maybe so. My theory on that (for some of them anyway) is that they probably really wanted to stay in the relationship and did not want to be "forced" to leave. I am guessing that they are bitter because they imagine that we put them in the situation to leave and "forced their hand", so resentment snowballs. And the more you act like you are moving on just fine, the angrier they get. I guess it isn't so much that they did not love you all along, it's just that they fell out of love with you and they place the blame for that strictly on you. Man, that's twisted.


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## Rico (Jul 28, 2010)

pretty funny, It's like my STBX, she gave me my bedroom set to move downstairs i set it all up and she got her new bedroom furniture that she splurged on and then that weekend from downstairs I hear a crash, I go upstairs to make sure my kids were alright and there she was, her mattress sunk into the frame as she was lookin at a busted box frame trying to climb out of the hole that was there, i simply just turned around and walked downstairs and LMAO!


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Rico said:


> pretty funny, It's like my STBX, she gave me my bedroom set to move downstairs i set it all up and she got her new bedroom furniture that she splurged on and then that weekend from downstairs I hear a crash, I go upstairs to make sure my kids were alright and there she was, her mattress sunk into the frame as she was lookin at a busted box frame trying to climb out of the hole that was there, i simply just turned around and walked downstairs and LMAO!


:rofl:

Good, it's great for some kind of release of anger when that happens but really it is a bittersweet victory. It would be a double edged sword for me - on the one side, imagining that picture of her coming out of the box frame would be a Kodak moment, but on the other hand, I would feel like I need to help her. I dunno, I am still in limbo in all of this.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

ha ha , yea that would be funny to see..

i think you are right brighterlight, she resents the fact that we are separating and blames me for it....its hard to think she has fallen out of love with me although i think it happend several years ago really....and although this last week i have been feeling much better about things today has been bad...majorly depressed about it all..


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## Rico (Jul 28, 2010)

ILMW, Although not easy, i know what you are saying, my STBX told me she drifted and fell out of love with me 4 years ago and never bothered to say anything to me. She let me go on unhappy and neglected until i made the wrong decision to stray emotionally with another woman. Not condoning what I did as right but it could have been all avoided or fixed if she would have expressed her feelings to me all those years ago and things might have been much more amicable at this point. It bothered me at first to know that as hard as I tried to be a good man she fell out of it with me. But I know I still got it and slowly I got over it and she has shown a side of her that has only helped me move on in terms of ever wanting to be with her again. At the point I'm at , she is simply the woman that gave me two of the most beautiful children in the world. Thats it.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks rico, i guess i keep hoping in the back of my mind that she will suddenly realize thats its all been a huge mistake and she still loves me after all...but i know its highly unlikely to happen now. Its easier if focus on her bad traits, of which there are quite a few!...but i still miss her...

she seems to be doing a reverse 180 on me..and i think she is better at it!....she wont talk unless she has to and then its only to discuss the kids...she puts the phone down as soon as she can...theres no texts or emails anymore...she avoids me when im there and never discusses where she has been or what she has been doing..unless i specifically ask...and this is the woman who can normally talk the front and hind legs of a donkey!

i have decided now to try and keep things amicable and forget 180 type stuff and just 'get real' as troy said earlier...i will try and focus on practicalities rather than emotional stuff ..


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ilovemywife7 said:


> ha ha , yea that would be funny to see..
> 
> i think you are right brighterlight, she resents the fact that we are separating and blames me for it....its hard to think she has fallen out of love with me although i think it happend several years ago really....and although this last week i have been feeling much better about things today has been bad...majorly depressed about it all..


Aw man, I know exactly what you mean, it's a frickin' roller coaster. And she's wishy washy also. She seems very drivin in trying to get the house sold so she can get out ASAP, but then on Sunday after my baseball game, I went to have a couple of beers with the team (i.e. the 180); I was gone an hour and a half, when I got home, you talk about she was p**ssed!!!! Did not look at me, did not say word, she just went into the bedroom angry and stated just throwing stuff away and packing even faster. :scratchhead: How am I supposed to read that - so I don't, I just stay the course. She has every oppertunity to come talk to me civilly.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, i think whatever we do they will be angry about it...theres no winning


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

BTW, just wanted to clear the air on the beer thing. I am not a drinker, I have maybe a beer every two months. One of the things she said she hated about me was that I never went "out" anywhere with her as a group to enjoy friends - not true; she just wanted to go out more often than I did. I think she was p**ssed because she thinks, oh now he's going out when in reality it was my son that invited me (my two sons and son-in-law play on the same team as me) to go to the after game get together.

The real question in my mind at this point is - why do I care whether she is friendly or mean? I mean really, should I be concerned about that now?


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yep, sounds like she was pi**ed of that you were out enjoying yourself when you should have been at home suffering for your sins 

i have to admit when my wife gets annoyed with something ive said (which is most of the time now) it does give me a certain amount of satisfaction...i know its wrong, but its nice to know i can still strike back 

having said that i think she is still winning the war!


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ILMY7 - Yip! I feel the same. I just don't know what it is like to find peace at the moment, but I know it's around the corner.


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

ilovemywife7 said:


> Its easier if focus on her bad traits, of which there are quite a few!...


We love them and want them back so much that we overlook, accept, or dont even recognize, their "bad traits". Its only after we have come around to accepting the reality that its over, and we start moving on with our own lives, and start letting go of them, is when we start seeing those "bad traits" that were always there.

Seeing those bad traits is actually a good thing because it makes it just a bit easier to let go and start focusing on ourselves. It makes it easire to not be so nice anymore.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

just to update...i saw wife last night and told her i wanted finances to be more fairly divided..im paying mortage and hefty credit card debt while she pays for utilities..she is getting an extra £400 a month from the council in tax credits...meanwhile im now way into my overdraft limit

before i had a chance to say anything she told me she had been thinking about it and she had decided that i could pay the whole of the mortgage into her account (closing down our joint a/c where i currently pay it into) and she would pay half the credit card bills..this would give me a bit more money

I suggested the fair way to do it was to split it all 50:50 and i would contribute half of whatever money was needed for kids (clothes etc)..she wasnt happy and wanted me to pay towards utilities as well as kids are using water etc...so i said no problem but im not transferring mortgage payments to her a/c, they will remain going from joint a/c

she was getting angrier and then said i would be liable for mortgage cause she wouldnt be able to pay for it...so i went through her income and outgoings and showed her she could afford it ...and she would still have an equal amount of money left over to me when we had paid for everything..which is plenty to live on

she wanted to know why i couldnt pay all of mortgage when i was living for free at my mums...i hadnt planned to tell her but then she asked me if i had moved and so i said yes...she hadnt realised i had moved out from there and was now renting about an hour away close to where i work ...she was a bit shocked..

then she got spiteful and said she didnt want me coming for tea with kids anymore on tuesday night..she hates cooking for me and im eating her food she has to pay for (this is why she is always grumpy on tuesday night i think, on saturdays she has them ready to go out of door when i arrive)..she wants me to pick kids up from school and take them somewhere which she knows i cant do very easily as they finish at 3:15pm...also she said it would need to change when they move as doesnt want me in her new house..

then she wanted to know where i was living and with who...i told her it was none of her business now and reminded her she had said 'she was no longer my family' ...so then she decided i must be seeing someone .. i said no, just i dont have to tell her where i go anymore..but she didnt beleive me..

she then said she was curious and 'just needs to know the state of our relat...."..then stopped...i just laughed and said "state of our relationship?".."its the state you made it..were separated and if you want to talk about it then put your rings back on"

she then said she took rings of as she knew it would annoy me!...i didnt ask but she said she was not seeing anyone...which i believe as i have been doing alot of detective work!

then she said she didnt care if i was seeing someone she would just file for adultery and get the divorce quicker...she wished them better luck than she had..i said i was amazed at how she had become and she said that it was how i had made her..so i told her to take responsibility for who she was and for her share of what she was doing

i was calm and cheerful throughout the whole discussion and then she started asking again about who i was living with and i said i think we should stop talking about it all and i would see her on saturday and left

i was surprised that she didnt offer to sell the house during all this...i think she plans to try and stay there..the work she has done on it and is planning to do is not the type of things that sells a house

anyway i left it that she could draw up a list of her expenses and we could have another look at it all, but at the end of the day i will make sure she is paying her fair share

my next plan is to move back into the house and get the essential DIY finsihed for selling


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ILMW7, good for you for not telling her your personal whereabouts. Also, good thing on the house too. In no way should you sign the mortgage over to her, that means she gets all the equity in the house if it sells. At least I am assuming it works similar to the US in the UK. Hang in there man, I don't know why the spouse that asks for the separation or divorce think that they are entitled to everything; it just should not be that way.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

ok just to update…i backtracked on 180 very badly last weekend!
After asking my wife for a fairer distribution of the finances which she has now agreed to she was annoyed to find out I had moved without telling her..
She then told her mother she wanted rid of me and agreed with her mother that the marriage was dead…her mother seems to be almost encouraging her?...then her mother told her that my niece had seen that I had set my facebook status to single last February when we were still living together….next thing my wife is wailing in floods of tears crying why didn’t he want me, what was wrong with me!!!!
and to top it all I never set my status to single I just removed the married link as my wife had removed herself from facebook..i never use facebook, which anyone can see…
So I spoke to my sister in law who told me if I want my wife back I have to understand that she has a broken heart and although she is along way down the road to leaving I should be trying with her, by showing her love and trying to win her heart back…the theory is that although she is very angry and wants to leave me etc they think she still loves me…im not so sure but some of her actions are a bit inconsistent…she seems to get jealous if she thinks I may be with other women, she has kept my wedding rings but given me back all other jewelry which I thought was odd as she said she was going to sell it all (they are cheap rings), she is very angry all the time with me and told me she only stopped wearing her rings to annoy me..im not sure these things are enough really but another female friend who knows the circumstances (but not my wife) has also said she thinks she still loves me…they think moving back into house would be a bad move, as it will just pi** her of more with me…
So sat night i asked her to write down the things where I had gone wrong to help me in future relationships..she said it was a waste of time and wasn’t going to do it..and then she reeled of the usual list angrily;
I wasn’t supportive enough (I don’t think is true)
I didn’t show enough affection (this is probably true)
She gave me her heart and I broke it, she cant trust me with it again
She thinks we should both move on now 
So I told her I loved her and said I didn’t want us to separate…she put her head down and rushed out past me saying she didn’t love me anymore…so I said I just wanted you to know how I feel about you and then I left
Then Monday morning she sends an email saying we should sell the house as soon as possible…so I reply with a long email trying to explain im sorry and to think about what she is doing, not that I expect us to reconcile but for her to forgive me and us be friends etc citing examples of times in our past when we were happy…I tried not to be patronizing or whingy..but I did explain I had spoken to my sister in law..and she sends this back..
That was awful to read….I am busy at work. I can’t say I am surprised that you would believe someone else and suddenly understand after someone else has talked to you about it, but never when I tell you. I suspected as much after your drastic turn around in attitude on saturday. 
You cant tell me anything that I cant already remember myself! But I want to move forwards with my life not look backwards. I am sick and tired of being miserable, you are like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde swinging from one emotional extreme to the other. I am more relaxed and happier than I have been in years. You cant persuade me into taking the course of action which you’d prefer. You need to stop focussing on this and give yourself a greater length of time to adjust.

theres been no contact since really… my sister in law thinks I should just ignore her saying these things and just be patient and keep just saying nice things and trying and then maybe her heart will start to melt, especially once the nights start to draw in and she may start to feel lonley? 
uhm…suggestions anyone???..


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ILMW7, I don't know man, are in the UK? I think my wife has a twin I never knew about. What I just read in your post TO THE LETTER it sure sounds like there is some weird parallel universe. Anyway, I can tell you from my side of this, if she is like my W, she is done. It is so weird how they tell you the love you and want to be friends but that they are done. Mine has turned into a cold heartless, disconnected person. Telling me the same things as yours is telling you, why are you doing this now, why not when I asked, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Man, I am going to a local pub this evening. Poker tournament games going on, I think I'll join them. Good luck dude, I really hope that your W is really not wanting the D down deep inside - I know mine is acting the same as yours but I know she is done!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

hi brighterlight, yea im in the UK...i think deep down she knows she is in the wrong and she says she is done and is telling everyone else she is...but i still think she has some feelings left deep down as she gets so annoyed and upset about some things...but i guess we will see ...hope poker went well ...i will update later...its my daughters b'day today and she hasnt invited my neices!!!..so now having arguments about that!!!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

well she finally relented and texted me to say she had found some partybags for my neices and the party went fine...

i went round to house to help get kids ready and give present to my daughter and my wife was acting all happy and pleased ...

Then at party she made a joke with me and came over a couple of times for a short while but then drifted away again...

then once the party was over and she drove of in her car the mask came down and she looked mega pi**ed of!..and she says im like jekyll and hyde!

My mum told me on the way home that she was very surprised about how unhappy my wife had looked all through the party...especially when i was with the kids ..she said she thinks she is very depressed and insecure....but she seemed happier than normal to me!

But i know that she is blaming me for everything, apparantly the story is that...i was so miserable over the last few years because i didnt want her and i wanted us to separate that in the end i forced her to throw me out, but now im going round telling everyone its her fault!!..

even though ive actually only told 3 family members and 2 friends that its even happened so far!

She has also now told the school teachers apparantly that because she doesnt know where im living or who with (which is no one) that they are not to let me pick the kids up without her telling them first!..ridiculous..

this is great as now everyone will know whats happening at school and i have to pick the kids up on wednesday and thursday so she can go to a Take That concert!..

the only nice thing is that one of her close friends made a point of saying hi to me at the party which suggests not everyone believes her version of events completely

the sad thing is that i was looking at her and knew what she has been telling people about me behind my back...i can understand if you dont love someone anymore, but why then try to destroy them..i guess she knows what she is doing is wrong and wants to divert the blame to me...what a wonderful woman i married!

im still not sure if she is a cold selfish person who planned this over a number of years and is deliberately telling a pack of lies to make herself look blame free...i know she is worried about what the kids will think when they are older....

or as well as being quite a cold selfish person anyway, she is so insecure (she is very insecure although she is an attractive woman, she has always made far more enemies than friends) and genuinley beleives the story herself...apparantly she cried until 2:00 in the morning when she found out i had moved address worrying about who i was with...but this could be more BS from her...

i guess at the end of the day its actions that count, and she has not put her rings back on or shown any indication that she wants to reconcile...quite the opposite in fact from her previous email..

however, despite saying we need to get the house finsished to sell asap she has still only painted one ceiling (which she is still taking extra strength ibruprufen for!) and dug a small area of the garden...makes me laugh after all the DIY i did, laying floors, installing all new electrics, plumbing, painting...and it was never appreciated...

anyway ive decided to take more formal legal advice tomorrow... i will meet with a solicitor who specialises in this sort of thing as i want to find out exactly where i stand regarding house and kids...its quite an expensive hourly rate but more than worth it i think..

why oh why did i marry such a silly selfish woman...


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ILMW7, I don't think we married silly selfish woman; on the contrary, you would probably agree with me that they were the love of your life and that you were going to grow old together with this warm loving caring woman. I think that life throws things at you that make it emotionally, physically and mentally tiring to be a 24 hour romantic and woman need that type of affection expressed more often. Not that we men don't have the same needs from our SO, but I think we tend to be more pratical in terms of understanding the business of day to day life. I am not trying to say or justify not having any type of affectionate relationship with your SO should be normal, but I think that women tend to put numbers and figures on that - at least that is what I felt like with my W. If she had wanted to be affectionate, she could have just as easily been there for me too. I guess it is the old addage about the man should pursue the woman, etc. Well, I do agree with that within the bounds of practicality.

Maybe I should have paid others money I didn't have to paint, lay tile, fix and maintain the auto, install moulding, mow the lawn, and yes ladies also share in the household washing dishes, cleaning toilets, washing clothes, etc. She had all of that, but I guess that is just being a handy man and not a lover. Like I said before in my other posts, Harliquin Romance novel main character could take over my responsibilties and let me move into the novel where I don't have time to do anything but be a 24 hour romantic. What a sweet deal!! Oh, my bad, it's called a FICTION novel.

OK, ILMW7, Sorry mate, I'm done throwing my sh**t anger around.  But I feel better already.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea she was the love of my life and i was hers...just like you say life does throw alot of crap at you and then i guess its hard to be romantic 24/11..she has become obsessed with Twighlight novels and romance and more recently True Blood..i mean really obsessed, continuously reading them..its like escapism..she suggested that i could learn alot about her by reading them..i did start but then things got worse and i couldnt see it would really help..maybe i should try finishing one though and see..

i dont think anymore that what i did or didnt do really deserved her deciding to throw the towel in the way she has..i know i wouldnt have done to her what she has done to me...if you love someone you accept them for who they are when you marry them...not decide to walk away because things have got abit difficult and you 'feel hard done by'...

i am looking back now and can see some fairly major lack of support moments from her ...i think she has always been a selfish person...i guess i just accepted that was her because i loved her and ignored it...ok, starting to rant now......but seriously i am starting to get annoyed with it all now..i think she is taking the pi** 

i spoke to another solicitor last night...i rang round some more after speaking to my brother who is a commercial solicitor and he suggested the ones i had originally found were quite expensive so in the end i found one who gave me 20 min free and then the hourly rate was a quarter of the price!...i was there for 50 min so im hoping it was all free 

anyway the advice was (maybe this will help others in similar situation)

Can my wife apply to stay living in the house when the mortgage term is up because i moved out? - basically my wife living in the house while im not there wont impact on her ability to keep the house if i want to sell at a later date..she cant try and stay there very easily (and she couldnt afford to anyway)

Does only seeing the kids twice a week affect my future access to them? - My only seeing the children 2 days a week isnt a problem at the moment as its only been 2 months and i am doing it for a reason (to try and save relationship), but in the future if i wanted to have more access to them after we divorce then it could be more difficult if i carry on much longer with this level of contact, as it looks as if i am happy with this arrangement and the court could say why didnt you try and see them more often while separated - so basically need to start seeing them as and when i want to, she has no power to stop me seeing them 

Is it fair for her to pay half of everything?: The financial arrangements that she has in place, although are fairer than previously, are still unfair..she claimed i should be paying half of the utilities for the house (although im not living there) as the children were using them also...apparantly this isnt true and she should pay all of this as she is living there...and she should also be paying half of mortgage and debts regardless as she is liable for them

Can she tell the school not to let me pick the kids up without her permission?: the solicitor thought this was ridiculous, as i am a parent she cant tell them not to let me not pick the children up..the school cant stop me taking them on her say so

If she takes the children away up north can i argue to bring them back?: Yes, i can apply to the courts for an order to bring them back.. but i would need to show however that this was in their best interests which if their family, friends and school are here then it would appear that way..of course it would also depend on her situation there and whether she was able to provide for them and get them into a school etc...personally im not sure i would win this battle to be honest but at least theres a fighting chance ...hopefully it wont come to that though

Should I be collecting evidence to use against her if it went to court?:..the answer was no, just collect evidence to show why the kids are better with me, not why they are not better with her...the courts would appoint an officer to investigate and determine this...personally i think i will still keep a record of events anyway just to be on safe side

The solicitor queried why she did not just get a divorce now if she is so determined?..my wifes argument is that it is to expensive to get a divorce now, which the solicitor said is not true..it would cost ~£1300, the same price as if we wait for 2 years, which if she is desperate to 'be rid of me' as she claims seems like a small price to pay...especially as she seems willing to forgo the redemption penalty of £8000?..this surprised me tbh

reading between the lines the solicitors advice was to call her bluff and move back in...and then see what she does, as the current situation is not helping anyone and at least then i would know what she plans to do


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

today is also my birthday and my daughters ...and its Tuesday so i am 'allowed' to see them tonight :smthumbup:

as part of my 180 in May i only sent my wife a text on her b'day saying 'happy b'day!'...predictably she sent me the same thing back this morning

i then gave her the the b'day card last week when i tried with her (which i originally bought to give her and then decided not to) 

so i sent text back saying thanks (as she replied to me on her b'day) and 'i will expect a card in about three weeks time'

i have the kids tomorrow so she can go to a take that concert...but she just rang me (first time for months) to see if i was coming over tonight or had plans tonight as she wants to travel up there tonight and could i stay over tonight so she can go...

i said sorry, got plans (which is true)..she didnt ask what they were but i think she wanted to know as mentioned them several times...so i said i would go early in morning so she can set of early...then i told her i would be taking my daughter to her swimming class Thursday afternoon (she had said she would come back in time for it when i asked previosuly...so she could spend more time with her??..wtf, she has them all week?) and she said that was fine and then wished me happy birthday happily???..by now i was a bit confused and said ok, bye...

last month i would have been filled with hope by this...now im just cynical and suspicious!...what next ..a birthday cake tonight :rofl:

just had happy birthday message on facebook as well from an old friend, who is single and very attractive and who my wife was very jealous of and used to hate with a vengeance..can life get better :smthumbup:

sorry, just being childish now...but it is my birthday!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

ah, as i suspected i have just received an email from my wife asking for money to help with paying the utilities and her car insurance...and the email is a nice friendly one....

she wants to discuss money tonight ..on my birthday.. on the eve of her going to her Take That concert, where she will pay out for petrol, train tickets, accomodation, drinks and souveniers...

yep, she is defn selfish


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Alright mate - birthday message on FB from an attractive friend! Awesome. After everything you are going through any bit of positive occurance is great. BTW, I was wondering about the picking up the children at school deal, it sounded fishy to me since you are just as much a parent as she is and every right to see your kids whenever you want. That is until a court ordered custody ruling becomes legal and says you can only have them certain times, which I doubt will happen to you. 

So good for you on the facebook. I hope you can bear with her if you move back in, it's been pretty tough for me living under the same roof. BTW, i will call you dude, man, and mate - i live in thr US but have family in england. LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

ha ha ha BrighterL ...dude, mate and man are all fine...where about in England are your family?

well just to update, she went to Take That concert...i was meant to stay in spare room when at house, but she didnt make it up (she did for her parents the week before) so i had to sleep in our bed...i thought this was a bit odd?

she then sent me a text just before which she signed with a x which she hasnt been doing for a long time..i just replied with a polite one back but no kiss...she then sent one the next day which was just generally asking stuff she already knew and then rang me in evening to say she was going to set of soon...she sounded like she wanted to talk more but i was polite again and then ended call 

she then got ill...and ended up in hospital until 2:00 in morning with some viral infection but could not drive home so her sister drove her (whos recovering from cancer and has just had op!)...i was supportive and waited up and she rang me to get directions on way home...

when they got to house she was ok, friendly but not really warm...i spoke to sister briefly and she said she hoped we could work things out between us, but she didnt say anything else...i didnt get any positive feedback ...i dont think this is a good sign

i havent moved back in yet and wife said she didnt want me to stay there that night but could i come over earlier next morning to help as still felt ill...

we chatted that night, she seemed much more relaxed and friendly than before, she was ok for me to be in 'her' bedroom getting kids clothes ready and chatted about some womens health issues she was suffering from, which i was surprised she talked to me about under circumstances..

i didnt mention the x on the text and nor did she..i said i would come over next day if she wanted (its her day with kids) and she said she would let me know but she would try and manage as she would have to the rest of the week, but it wasnt that she didnt want me there?..she then texted the next day to say she could manage....but then when i spoke to her later she said her mum was coming down and would stay all week to help...she said it was not her decision but i think she must have invited her...

she generally has become much more friendly and cheery and seems happy to chat and i am the one finishing the conversation early..she laughs at my jokes and has been generally nicer...it seems genuine..

im a bit confused by the sudden niceness and the x..i thought originally it was to try and get some money but im not so sure now..its hard to beleive she is coming round though as she is still not wearing her rings and has not mentioned anything about us getting back together..

i am refusing to let it build up any hope, although it is difficult...my more romantic female colleagues think she is maybe missing me more than she lets on but i am more cynical..

I wondered if it is because in the last email i sent a few weeks ago i told her i accepted it was over and in the past telling her this this has resulted in her being more relaxed...in the last email she wrote just before the concert she said 'I don’t want us to fight about money I know its going to take a while to settle all this and this is the worse time of year with kids birthdays etc'..this was day before concert so i think she still means to go ahead with her 'plan' to separate permanantly

im not good at reading signals so i find this all a bit confusing!
i guess announcing my plan to start coming over more in the evenings and to move back in will tell me...

i find her being nice worse than being nasty.. i preffered disliking her...its making it harder now for me...i find it a bit weird acting all nicey nicey like we are good friends but knowing that she want us to separate

I have read somewhere that couples that can talk and become friends again do have a better chance of reconcilliation?..

sigh, its to much stress


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Awww dude, my wife is doing the same to me. I agree with you 100% that I would rather her be standofish and push me away, it really would be easier to know where I stand. She has had this flippant attitude on and off but recently she has been really TOO nice to me. :scratchhead: I am worried that it will delay my being able to move forward. Yesterday, we were driving home from running some errands, she reached out to me and held my hand and started tearing up. WTF!!!! I wasn't sure whether to pull away or console her - OK, this is where you get to think me a pushover and a chump - I consoled her and tried to make a witty remark so she would smile and not cry. I said to her that I understand how she feels - can't live with him and can't live without him. Right, well I am now thouroughly confused. Sorry mate, didn't mean to hijack your post, I just wanted you to know that I understand and I am right there with ya! BTW, my son-in-laws family lives in Bury St. Edmunds.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea its weird, i thought they were meant to have moved on already, so why the tears now...i think you did the right thing, thats what i would have done...im avoiding talking about any relationship issues now unless she starts the conversation..im trying to just think that its over and keep moving forward as if thats the case..

i m wondered if its just my wifes way of trying to cope with it now, she was very angry, but maybe she has decided we just need to get on for the sake of the kids etc?..but then a x on a text seems a bit cruel under the circumstances..

i dunno, at times when i feel like im starting to get hope i just line up all of the nasty things thats she said and done and work my way through the list and that usually gets me back on track again 

This morning i went through her latest list of reasons for leaving me and stopped at our wedding day...apparantly she did all the planning and work for it and i didnt make it special enough for her by not giving her a gift or doing something romantic on the day!!??!!...

wtf, she insisted on doing all the planning, she didnt say anything at the time about being disappointed and was really happy on the day..and we had a great night and romantic honeymoon in Hawaii...she now thinks we clearly have different expectations of how it should have been?... although she has never mentioned these discontentments over the last 10 years we have been married...

thinking about this driving into work today got me back on track for doing some DIY to sell the house!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thinking about it more ...i also think that while its easy to start to get hopeful about these small changes at the moment they may be nothing more than emotions getting the better of them temporarily...

the real test is whether they want to initiate a talk about the future of a relationship, go to MC or in my wifes case start wearing her rings again (she knows this really bugs me!) or want to stay living together i guess...these are real changes

but i hope for your sake BrighterL and for mine that these small signs mean that somewhere deep down they are re-evaluating their decision and looking back

im still going to start the DIY though


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Man, I gotta tell you that I think you hit the nail on the head there with the "emotions getting the better of them temporarily." But don't you think that it means that there is the smallest tiniest amount of doubt in their mind? I believe that is the case but I also think that it isn't enough for her/them to warrent staying in the marriage. Even if they have these moments of doubt about the D, they are still maybe only 10% of their overall feelings. I guess it's good because they care enough to remain friends. I am right there with you on the DIY and moving forward with the new living quarters plan and working to better myself. I don't think there is any stopping the path of D for us. I sincerely hope that it turns around for you and you can reconcile.

Oh, one other thing - I am the one that quit wearing my ring in our relationship. I figured if she asked for a D and wants out and is charging ahead with the house preparation for sale that she wouldn't care whether or not I was wearing my ring. I am pretty sure she has noticed but has not mentioned anything! I know she want's to ask, but is probably understanding that if we are done, why wear the ring. If other women approach me somewhere, why would she care. I can't help it, it's just the way I feel; she is the one that caused my ring to come of after 32 years. Funny thing is I am starting to feel guilty because she has never stopped wearing hers and is still wearing it. WTF!!! :scratchhead:


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea but im not sure i want to remain friends with my wife..to be honest im still struggling with the whole idea of us not being married so it really helps if i can dislike her as much as possible..

i find the reasons for her opting out of the marriage to childish and ridiculous that i just cant respect them or her for doing it

the list last time was;
i wasnt supportive enough when her sister said she had cancer - well my dad died of it 5 years earlier and she was not that supportive during that time...her sister may well recover
i am miserable and depressed all the time - well she knows that was after his death and i went to counselling for that which really helped
she cant get past me saying i wanted a divorce during an argument - come on, everyone says stupid things when they argue, i said it once, she didnt have to actually go and see a solicitor
the wedding day wasnt what she expected - she looks happy enough on the video and has never complained about it before
i never made enough effort on our anniversaries - maybe this is true but we always did something or went out somewhere and i always got her a nice card and a present
she didnt feel that i made her number 1 priority in my life - well maybe theres some truth in that, i had a hobby and was busy with work etc, but she could have also tried harder to be more involved in having us time instead of just expecting me to do it
i was not affectionate enough - well she knew i wasnt the most affectionate person when she married me and i wasnt that bad, and its hard to be affectionate to someone who doesnt want it which is hows it been for the last couple of years

for me these are not good enough reasons to scrap a marriage and deprive 2 young children of their father, sell a big house that we have spent years working towards and basically throw away 17 years together...of which i dont think things were as bad as she now seems to have convinced herself...

we had alot of fun together and she seems to forget that she is generally acknowledged by the wider community of both our family and friends as a bit of a nightmare to live with anyway

it just seems like madness to me and to most people who know us..all except her mother and one friend who seem to hate me now...although i know she has been telling them that i was really bad which isnt true

so for me its easier to not hate her, but just no longer respect her, trust her or like her....

sadly i still love her and this is where it all goes pear shaped 

anyway sorry for the rant, bad day today..too much thinking about it


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

its odd your wife still wears her ring?...maybe she is not as confident about it all being over as she would like?...i think most women would stop wearing them asap...my wife stopped as soon as i moved out even though she originally said she would wait...she then came up with ridiculous excuses why she wasnt wearing them each time i asked..the last one was it was to annoy me, and actually i believe that she is enjoying this, but obviously its more than that or she would put them back on now she knows im annoyed..

the odd thing is she gave me back all my watches and other possessions when she cleaned our wardrobe out, but she has kept my wedding rings (ive got 3!..long story but i kept losing them!) in a box with hers...why keep them?...why not just have given them back to me with the other things, like the watch she bought me?.

its these sorts of things that make me think that maybe there is a glimmer of hope.....that when push comes to shove and the time comes when she is really going to have to actually move out and rent and its starts to become real for her that she may start to re-evaluate what she is giving up

my only worry with this approach is that im worried about if im just delaying the pain...so im trying to treat it as permanent from now...but its difficult with that glimmer of hope


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ILMW, I understand how you feel... My wife left for basically the same reasons yours did... the thing is we have been stuck ever since we reached that point early on where most familes struggle: raising children, paying the mortgage and bills, feeding the family and busting our butts surviving... My biggest beef is that my wife's habits (how she chose to spend her money, time and energy on her own impulses) have really hampered our ability to get past that point - we should be at the point where the finances are starting to take care of themselves, building equity, advancing careers, more income, child is more independent etc. I guess if I could go back I really would do things much differently financially, had a budget and kept our finances separate. Its just money, but she used to know and respect how I worked at it, and when we can no longer set goals together and everything is falling apart, we're both exhausted (her from her busy social life and me from my devotion to my child and home) no wonder its hard to give affection to each other - how does running off with someone else solve any of that? It doesn't its just an escape, one with completely destructive consequences.

As to the rings... She had stopped wearing hers for awhile, largely saying its because they were getting uncomfortable on her hands from work... it really hurt when I saw her wearing them in the photos she sent to the first OM, whom was obviously praying on the whole horny wife thing. Anyways she can keep it, it doesn't really mean much to me anymore.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, i still spend hours just wondering why she is doing it...the reasons just dont seem enough to me...at the end of the day though she said she was going to be selfish and put herself first before me and kids and i guess thats what she is now doing

she seems to have convinced herself that the last 17 years have been miserable to the point of looking at every single event in a very negative way...i think this is also to justify her own behaviour now

i think its just easier for some people to just give up rather than try..she complained that it wasnt easy for her to do this, but i think thats just more self pity on her part personally, why not put the same energy into trying to make the marriage work?...

I think the problem is really that at the end of the day everyone said she was selfish and lazy and that is what she has turned out to be...i loved her so i chose to ignore those traits but looking back they were always there...

even in the current situation, she has shouted and ranted about how bad i am to everyone who will listen..DIY not finished, im trying to take her money, i dont love her enough, she feels hard done by blah blah blah..she has to be rid of me and move forward with her life, she will do the DIY asap to sell the house, i have to 'adjust ' to the situation...

...and where is she...she has done sod all of any of the DIY she claimed she was going to do over the last 2 1/2 months..shes living in the house (and saying its hers now to the kids apparantly!), the house is no closer to being sold despite all of her threats, she is now asking me for more money, even though she previously decided what we each should be paying...basically i pay most of everything!..as far as i can see everyone else has had to adjust except her...i dont see alot of moving forward at the moment from her!


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Lon said:


> ILMW, I understand how you feel... My wife left for basically the same reasons yours did... the thing is we have been stuck ever since we reached that point early on where most familes struggle: raising children, paying the mortgage and bills, feeding the family and busting our butts surviving... My biggest beef is that my wife's habits (how she chose to spend her money, time and energy on her own impulses) have really hampered our ability to get past that point - we should be at the point where the finances are starting to take care of themselves, building equity, advancing careers, more income, child is more independent etc. I guess if I could go back I really would do things much differently financially, had a budget and kept our finances separate. Its just money, but she used to know and respect how I worked at it, and when we can no longer set goals together and everything is falling apart, we're both exhausted (her from her busy social life and me from my devotion to my child and home) no wonder its hard to give affection to each other - how does running off with someone else solve any of that? It doesn't its just an escape, one with completely destructive consequences.
> 
> As to the rings... She had stopped wearing hers for awhile, largely saying its because they were getting uncomfortable on her hands from work... it really hurt when I saw her wearing them in the photos she sent to the first OM, whom was obviously praying on the whole horny wife thing. Anyways she can keep it, it doesn't really mean much to me anymore.


Lon, I can understand completely about the point in your life where things were supposed to come together. Our kids are married and out of the house. We both have a 30+ year carreer with our companies, we only had 4 yrs left to pay off the house, etc. Then, BAM!!! She says, "I want out!" After 36 of being a couple sharing our souls, trust, respect and love for each other she decides it's time for her to put herself first. Now, she is hiding her stock accounts, changing her passwords, etc. I feel like I was lied to for 36 years. That's the same as living a lie almost my entire life. All I did was give, give, give and more give during our marriage. Maybe that is where I failed us, I should have put my foot down on many occasions and I didn't - because I cared and loved her.



ilovemywife7 said:


> yea, i still spend hours just wondering why she is doing it...the reasons just dont seem enough to me...at the end of the day though she said she was going to be selfish and put herself first before me and kids and i guess thats what she is now doing
> 
> she seems to have convinced herself that the last 17 years have been miserable to the point of looking at every single event in a very negative way...i think this is also to justify her own behaviour now
> 
> ...


ILMY, you are just a mirror copy of my situation with the exception that my W was a workaholic (just like me). But every thing else about wanting to put her self first, that 32 years of marriage was difficult, that she made adjustments to put the kids and me first, shhhh yeah, right. Like you, in the past few years I never got anything the remotely resembles affection ffrom her other than sex, and that wasn't really intimate in my opinion. It's was great, but with little emotional connection. So she wonders why I wasn't more addectionate, yadda, yadda, yadda. I am the opposite, I remember the blessings that we had, the great times traveling, hell, I think I may have to she her the pictures to see if it jogs here memory! LOL!.

I dunno man, life can be a real sh***t sometimes. Even though I am convincing myself more and more everyday that I am making progress on myself, every now and then I catch myself thinking that I am putting on an act. This really does hurt, it is a terrible loss for me, for our kids, and our entire family.

I shuffle between emotions.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ilovemywife7 said:


> yea, i still spend hours just wondering why she is doing it...the reasons just dont seem enough to me...at the end of the day though she said she was going to be selfish and put herself first before me and kids and i guess thats what she is now doing
> 
> she seems to have convinced herself that the last 17 years have been miserable to the point of looking at every single event in a very negative way...i think this is also to justify her own behaviour now
> 
> ...


Oh man... this is so moving for me to read, It is bringing tears to my eyes because your story makes me feel like there is another person who understands exactly what I've been coping with in my life. My wife has acted/reacted the same way as yours and it just hurts so much that they up and leave and find someone else so easily. It also hurts because you know that nobody else will ever be committed to them like you've been. In my case I saw my wife's selfishness as a strength - all first responders will say you need to put yourself first in order to be able to take care of others, but it turned out to be a little too much selfishness. A large part of my enabling her behaviors and letting her walk all over me was the guilt I put on myself, and resentment she put on me during the first year after our child was born - it was so hard, she was so tired and trapped and I felt there was so little I could do to get her out of that. And when the time came that she could start going out again I totally supported it, except neither of us knew how to reel it in once it got out of control - I don't think she realizes it ever was out of control and that's where the breakdown in communication happened (we otherwise have been best friends just haven't had time/effort for romance or intimacy it seems)

Of course her selfishness didn't just take its toll on "us" it also took it out of me, but that is no excuse I'm just saying I realize where I failed myself in all of this. And it sucks because I have been putting in so much mental effort to get myself better. Going through all this has given me the drive and motivation but it is too late for restoring what could have been. Interestingly at the IC yesterday we did a therapy (Hakomi) to reconnect my mind and my body - I used to be skeptical of these things, I don't know what happened but it was personally amazing - like I'm feeling grounded to my real values again and that reconnecting will have a healing affect not just on my thoughts but my body and energy too. Anyways just I'd share that last personal tidbit!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yes its a nightmare..i have good days and bad days..to be honest the days i spend alot of time thinking about it and writing about it are the worst days..the good days are the days i just go and do something else with someone else and dont think about any of it..

the hardest part is that she just doesnt seem to give a sh*t ...i literally just spoke to her on phone after talking to kids...

i asked how long she had invited her mother daown and she said till saturday and then she asked what time i was coming over to pick them up on saturday...i just sighed and then she said 'so whats wrong with you then, why you sound so grumpy?'...wtf..so i said its nothing, just tired, and she says 'it sounded like you wanted to say something else?'...dont know what she is on about..but she all lah lah lah and i feel like crap having to ring my own house to talk to my kids, while her %$^&%*$ mother is there singing in the background (distracting the kids from talking to me on the phone)...

i just find it all very surreal still ... i still cant beleive what she is doing...

the only good thing is it gives me renewed strength to move back in next week


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

and what is it with 'so whats wrong with you then?'...she has asked me this on several occassions...

wtf does she think is wrong with me!!!???...


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

im not religious but i pray for the day when she is in my shoes and i can ask her the same question....


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

ILMW7, oh man, my W asked me other day (actually on more than none occasion), "hey, you seem down, are you OK?" WTF, no, I just lost my baseball game yesterday and I feel depressed! Wait, let me think.....dudaduhdadum...nah, that's probably not it. Hey, maybe its the loss of 36 years of my life, the loss of the woman I loved, my core family unit, my home, my kids perception of what marriage should be, the fact that I spent 13 straight months next your side day in and day out praying for a miracle and fighting with you to beat your illness, and the Lord delivered, the fact that I was convinced that after what we went through with your illness we were certainly inseparable. Yeah, maybe that's it! Really, WTF!!!!!

Sorry, ILMW7, didn't mean to hijack your post. I just want it to be next year already! I'm done with this shyte!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, know what you mean...wow sounds like you were really there for her...its not fair dude..

the worse part is that it feels like they are getting what they want while we are the ones that suffer...hopefully thats a short-term thing and long-term they will be the ones who suffer 

feeling bitter today


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Well, I not having a good day today. She is being very condescending. It appears she is done talking to me about anything but business. I need to get out of our home. Hopefully we can get it sold. I need my space so I can heal and grow. Quite honestly, I think she has damaged, beyond repair, my ability to trust anyone again. I have a lot of mending to do and not a whole lot of time to do it in.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea that was my fear that this experience would affect my ability to trust again... but i try not to let it or she will be winning... i just think i made a mistake in loving someone who was not a particularly nice person deep down...theres lots of other people out there who are worth loving...i think next time though i will be much more careful in my choice of partner and i will keep more of an eye on the relationship, work harder at showing affection...

i rang the kids tonight and after speaking to them my wife asked if she could speak to me..then she asked if i could go food shopping for her as it was expensive for her mum to pay each day and there was no food in house..and could she tell me over the phone a list of things they need for saturday...money wasnt mentioned..i just said tell me the list tomorrow when i ring....

basically she is of work ill...although she said she is feeling much better and sounds much better and her mother is there helping out this week...i offered to come over and help but was refused..the mother has been walking into the local shops each day to buy some food but its expensive and she leaves on saturday when her stepdad will drive over to fetch her...she cant drive and my wife isnt able to drive at moment...

my wifes step dad could go and buy food when he comes over to pick her mum up..and would probably offer to if he knew..this is what i would expect her to normally do..they have offered her money as well which she apparantly refused..why doesnt she get them to go shopping?

if i wasnt good enough to come over and help then how come im now good enough to go shopping for her..

dont get me wrong i will always get food for the kids if they needed it but although money is tight she is not on the breadline by any means and she can afford to buy food...

at beginning of month she sent me a text saying 'you just cant stop interferring in my business' when i suggested my nieces attend my daughters birthday party (as they have done every year previously)...now apparantly im allowed to interfere in her business and go and do her shopping

call me cynical but it does seem like she is simply tapping me up to pay for a large food shop (we usually buy for a couple of weeks)

i was thinking to suggest i drive her there but she is meant to be having bedrest at the moment so i cant really say that

the problem is im into my overdraft again this month so cant really afford it, although if i thought it was a genuine issue with them going hungry i would find the money or if i thought she was trying...but sadly i suspect its just a case of using me

what bugs me as well is that on saturday when i offered to come over sunday to help she said she would ring and let me know, it wasnt that she didnt want me there, just she would have to manage for the rest of week on own so would try and see how it was...she then texted sunday morning saying she could manage and then when i rang later in day she said her mum had decided to come down for a few days which she was pleased about as she was now struggling..

i suspect she had already rang her mum on saturday to ask her to come down and help..its a 4 hour drive so not something they would normally do on spur of moment..later in week i rang and asked how long she had 'invited' her mum down for..she said till saturday..she didnt say 'i never invited her'!..

this annoyed me as clearly she didnt want me there but why lie about it all and say ' its not because i dont want you there'

i think she is playing at being nice to try and screw me for money, which really hurts as i always had the highest respect for this woman and it really highlights how little she now thinks of me


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)




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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

It never surprises me. They don't need you until they need you. I don't know about you ILMW but I would have to draw the line somewhere. I mean, if out is what they want, I say let them experience what it's like to be out. I will say though that if the kids are with her and they need to buy food then you really don't have a choice, buying the food is the right thing to do. You just have to eat your pride and buy the food. But if you have the kids then tough sh** t that she is beridden and ill. What's she gonna do a while down the road? Call you whenever she needs you. Ummm, i don't think so. She wanted to be alone well have at it! Let her find some other sugar daddy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yep thats right, i am going to say ok i can get the shopping but you will have to give me the money...

todays one of those days when i woke up feeling annoyed and depressed about it all

I still cant see why she would want to go through and put us all this

i am still having a hard time as well accepting that she doesnt love me any more

i hate days like these


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

i thought i would share this...my brother went on a personality profiling course last week which said that everyone can fit into 1 of 4 personality types (analytical, driver, aimiable, expressive)...

he suggested that it might help understand my wifes actions ...

she is definately an analytical personality with some of the expressive traits...he thinks this would account for her being quite clinical in her decision and justifying it on the basis of how better off she is without me. If that is correct then the only likely way to change her mind is produce the facts and figures as to why she is better off with me and make her realise that her position is worse without me...

these are the personalities..

Analytical - Analytical people are known for being systematic, well organized and deliberate. These individuals appreciate facts and information presented in a logical manner as documentation of truth. They enjoy organization and completion of detailed tasks. Others may see him at times as being too cautious, overly structured, someone who does things too much 'by the book'.

•controlled
•orderly
•precise
•disciplined
•deliberate
•cautious
•diplomatic
•systematic
•logical
•conventional


Driver - They thrive on the thrill of the challenge and the internal motivation to succeed. Drivers are practical folks who focus on getting results. They can do a lot in a very short time. They usually talk fast, direct and to the point. Often viewed as decisive, direct and pragmatic.

•action-orientated
•decisive
•problem solver
•direct
•assertive
•demanding
•risk taker
•forceful
•competitive
•independent
•determined
•results-orientated

Amiable - They are dependable, loyal and easygoing. They like things that are non-threatening and friendly. They hate dealing with impersonal details and cold hard facts. They are usually quick to reach a decision. Often described as a warm person and sensitive to the feelings of others but at the same time wishy-washy.

•patient
•loyal
•sympathetic
•team person
•relaxed
•mature
•supportive
•stable
•considerate
•empathetic
•persevering
•trusting
•congenial

Expressive - Very outgoing and enthusiastic, with a high energy level. They are also great idea generators, but usually do not have the ability to see the idea through to completion. They enjoy helping others and are particularly fond of socializing. They are usually slow to reach a decision. Often thought of as a talker, overly dramatic, impulsive, and manipulative.

•verbal
•motivating
•enthusiastic
•convincing
•impulsive
•influential
•charming
•confident
•dramatic
•optimistic
•animated

Now, if you don't feel that you belong to any one group, don't worry either. Many of us don't fit squarely in one group or another. However, we do have one dominant personality style that we use day to day.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

apparantly there was a list of dos and donts in dealing with each of these types which he is going to send me so will post them on here when i get them


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

It's hard to tell for me, I have several of the traits from each. Does that mean that I am personality balanced? LMAO!!!! 

Ok, actually I have the least from Driver. I guess I'm not a risk taker or I would have tried an affair to see what would happen. My stbx falls mostly into this one; which is probably why I rarely got affection from her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

I went back to house on saturday and suggested to wife that i come over sunday to help with kids as she was still ill and she said no, she doesnt want my help, then i said i was thinking of coming over on more evenings and she started getting angry and said no...so then i said i was going to move back and she went mental again...she threatened to take kids up north again, and i said i would get a court order to bring back so then she rang her sister and i dont know what she said but she wasnt on phone for long and then she rang my mum who said we would have to sort it out ourselves...

so then she said i couldnt come back and i said i was and she said we will see about that and went downstairs and rang the police and told them she felt threatened!...so they came round and i talked to them and they said i had to give her my keys and leave the house, which i did!

she has just rang me and was being ok, she said she would give me back my key and, she agreed to let me see kids whenever i want and i can stay at house with them in evening if want...she said the police had told her she must be more flexible..and she wants me to do holiday cover in the summer..so i said i would...i said i want the house to go on market this week and she said she would put it on 

then she wanted to go and i said i wanted to talk about the finances..she offered to pay a small insurance each month and i said i think she needs to be paying her half of everything now as she wants to be separate...especially in light of calling the police...

then she started to get angry again!..she said she thought she had a right to call the police as i was being unreasonable and threatening to move back in..

apparantly also i promised her that i wouldnt make her pay everything before i left, and i was now breaking that promise?...so i reminded her that she had made a promise as part of her wedding vows for better or worse and she was breaking that promise..and then she put the phone down!!!...

i realise now she has been leading me on to get money since i left which is why she started being nice to me...i asked her about the text she sent with a x on it but she denied any knowledge of it and said it must have been a joke by someone else...but i could tell it was her from the way she signed it of...

ive decided that i dont want to be married to her any more now, i dont know why she is doing this but i think her and her mum were leading me on to try and keep the money coming in and then calling the police just makes you wonder what else she is capable of...i cant trust her again and i certainly dont have any respect for her now.

the good thing is that it has allowed me to detach emotionally now, its still difficult but i feel differently about her now...calling the police was the final straw really


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Yip. Actually, calling the police on you might have done you a favor as you now see where you stand with her. I can't believe it's as easy as telling the police she feels threatened and they buy that crap. You own half the house, right? Is the mortgae/title in your name or hers. Sell the house, get her to pay for half of everything and don't back down to her.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, i was amazed she did that..she is being extra nice now until i told her she now has to pay half of everything and then she slammed the phone down!..

i think the police could see what had happened but they have to follow procedure, she told me they had told her she has to be more flexible on allowing me to see the kids..she has since offered to let me come round to house whenever i want and have tea with them and put them to bed..amazing since she apparantly felt so threatened on saturday night that she called the police!..i said i would take them out or to my mums

She also agreed to give me house keys back which is good as i want to take some of my personal belongings before she throws them away...

I have decided to play her at her own game and i have told her not to worry about the finances for now...i will get key back tonight and then i will try to get an agreement in writing to give me at least equal access to the kids ..once that is in place i will ask for her to pay her half of everything

I have worked out how much money she will have if i do this and she can easily still manage and she should have some money left over as well...i dont want to make things so hard she has to move out of the area to somewhere cheaper as i will lose having the kids close by..but she needs to support herself now

She is stalling on selling the house, i think her plan was to let me keep paying for everything and in the meatime she was saving her money for if she eventually had to move out..i think she hoped to try and keep the house if possible and so has not been rushing to get the work done, although to be honest she is also quite lazy which is probably another reason...

she rang me twice yesterday, apologised for ringing so often, droned on about how poorly she felt, mentioned that she has to pay for school uniforms and they are very expensive and then started to complain about some presents my brother had sent the kids for their birthdays!..

i honestly dont know what is going on inside her head!..but i suspect its nothing nice for me!


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

Hah! I bet it's nothing nice for you. I wish I could see what is going on in my stbxw's head; I am sure she has me somewhere in Dante's Inferno probably between the folks that have to eat sh**t and the ones hanging up side down with their bowels hanging out. I am pretty sure she blames me for 90% of this divorce and I am pretty sure she blames me for all the lost time she feels she stayed in the marriage as well as the stress that she says contributed to her cancer.

I can tell you, she has nothing good in her head for me right now. Honestly, I wish she would get over it - I have, and she is the one who walked out. Yesterday she told me that she included me in the wanting to split our marriage, I told her that under no circumstances will I sit here and agree with her on that, I said to her straight away that she is the one who bailed out on our marriage and that I was not going to allow her to point the finger at me for any of that. Not that I was perfect, because I had my part in the unhappiness she felt but I will be damned if she casts me into the ending it part; I don't quit my vows, I would have tried to work harder at us. Now, she just wholeheartedly resents me!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, my wife is the same, totally blames me ad i suspect thats how she justifys her behaviour

i went to see kids last night, she left me waiting outside 5 minutes while she got them ready (very humiliating in front of neighbours) and the i took them to mums for tea

then when took them back my daughter ran into house and i carried my son to door as he had fallen asleep and she said give him to me, so i looked and went to go in and she smirked and said 'just hand him over to me, you know you have to' and so i had to hand him over on doorstep and didnt get to put them to bed

so i asked if she had my key and she said no, and i asked if she had transferred money for shopping into my account and she said no...but she wanted to talk about house and she would ring me..so then i had to leave

then she rang and said she had arranged for estate agents to come round and trades to finish of work, so i said fine but then when i asked again about seeing the children she rang of

so i went to see my solicitor...she said the police were talking boll$£cks...they cant tell her to change locks or keep my key and she would contact her solicitor to talk to her to arrange giving me back my key..they also cant stop me from going to the house....we are also arranging for a collaborative meeting with both of us and our solicitors to try and reach some agreement on everything..obviously this all costs money but im concerned that she will retract on any deal we agree between us without a legally binding contract

my wife rang me about the house on the way home so i asked again if i could have key and see kids more and she said that the police said it wasnt a good idea and she wanted to keep things as they are and i could have kids to stay over at mums in holidays but otherwise i would have to pick up and drop of on doorstep...i said i had just seen soliciter and told her what she said and my wife predictably shouted she didnt need this stress and put te phone down on me again

then she sent a text asking if i would go to mediation...but i replied and said no, i had offered this before and now i felt we should do it legally..i also said that i think the way she is using the children to get her own way was abhorrent...she didnt reply but later when i called to talk to kids she didnt answer phone at first but then texted to say ring back as they are in bath and ring back in 10 min..she was ok on phone then and she sounded tired...

hopefully she will start being more reasonable..i wont push moving in for now, i will just hopefully take keys back and try and go over to see them more often...hopefully the tide is turning


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