# Completely numb to it all.



## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

So, I recently found this forum and read through several threads before deciding to register. Basically, here's my story:

About a year ago, my wife had begun to grow distant and cold. I asked several times what was wrong, but she always said that she was fine, just dealing with some issues. I went out and rented the local planetarium to watch some romantic movies on her birthday, and we had some friends with us for dinner beforehand. During dinner she was quiet and reserved and barely talked. That night, we tried fooling around in the planetarium. She seemed completely disinterested, and so she began texting her "friend" from work. I had already told her how much I hated the fact the she texted him so much. (He was also one of the friends who came to dinner with us beforehand.) 

A few days after that, my wife was taking a nap and her phone went off. She had left it in her purse in the bedroom, and it kept beeping over and over again. I went in thinking I could keep it turned down to let her sleep while I played in the living room with our daughter. I saw that it was her "friend" texting, so the curiosity got the better of me. What I saw was two people talking about how much they missed each other, when they were planning on meeting that week, and how they were both glad to be more than just "****buddies." (I'm sure that word is censored out, but hopefully you get the point.) I returned to the living room and said nothing. My wife came out of the bedroom an hour or so later and saw my face and immediately broke down. She told me all about her EA (emotional affair) and that she was sorry and would never talk to him again. I never thought about leaving. Ever. 

We continued on for a while, but we never sought out counseling because according to her, "We don't have the time or the money." I didn't worry too much about it because I don't like counselors much anyway. I continued to check her phone periodically and saw that she had been continuing to talk with him, but always deleted the messages. I didn't confront her about it because she worked with him, and she told me point blank that she would have to keep talking with him to have a decent working relationship. About two months passed and I checked her phone again. She hadn't deleted any messages, and I saw him flirting with her, and her promising to send pictures later that night in exchange for something nice he did for her at work. I confronted her about it that night and she told me that she was sorry again, but that she had been sending nude photos to him, getting nude photos from him, pleasing herself to his photos/videos, and making out with him at their work place in the elevator. 

Again, I was devastated but I told her I understood why she was doing this. She told me it was because I wasn't there for her emotionally and physically. I believed her, so we continued on. I asked that she be completely transparent with me, and she said that she had told me everything.

Fast forward to about a month ago. Our home is full of people all the time. Mainly her friends (I don't have many friends myself) and they are always using our shower and room to change. We had had several instances in which she or I ended up doing someone else's laundry because we didn't pay attention. My wife left to go to her mother's (with my daughter) so I was home alone for about a week. I found a pair of underwear in her top drawer that I thought were cute and proceeded to "use them" for my maculine needs. (Hopefully this isn't too much, but I'm trying to give the whole story.) My wife gets home and finds the underwear. She tells me they aren't hers and that she had never purchased underwear that looked like that. I had no idea since she hardly ever wears underwear in the first place. However, my naivete was my undoing and it made her immediately accuse me of cheating. 

After several days of talking and trying to convince her that I had not cheated and telling her what I had done with the underwear, she finally told me she believed me. She said she still felt like I was hiding something, but she wasn't sure what. Fast forward a bit to a few days ago, and again another accusation of cheating. I work with a female coworker whom my wife has told me acts as if she likes me. I told my wife that it was silly and that I do everything in my power to avoid that since I'm her superior (and she's not exactly good looking either). Well, my female coworker ends up laying her head on my shoulder and putting her hand on mine during work, and it hits me that my wife was right. I immediately tell my coworker that it is inappropriate on many levels and proceed to inform my superior. We get the coworker moved to a different shift so that I no longer have to deal with that issue. That night when I get home I tell my wife all about it, all the while telling her I'm sorry I didn't believe her and whatnot. She immediately comes back with "That's who I thought you were having an affair with." The way she looks at me is one of disgust. As if I'm lying to her and trying to get away with something. I told her immediately when something happened, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Fast forward again to yesterday, and my wife asks me to talk to her in the bedroom. We lay down and she tells me she hasn't been honest with me. She tells me that it wasn't just the kissing and sexting, but she also had sex with the OM. She kept looking at me, but I couldn't say or do anything besides apologize for not being the type of husband she could count on and saying sorry for not being stable enough for her to tell me everything right off the bat. I don't know what to think or do anymore.

I feel completely numb to it all right now. We have had a couple issues pop up in the year since I first found out involving her going out late nights with her friends and coworkers (not the OM). A male friend of hers seems to be very into her, and they text every once in a while. She even at on point sent me a picture of her out at a bar with this new guy, trying to show me she was safe and having fun. Of course, telling her that it bothered me set off a whole slew of arguments about trust and whatnot. Everytime I look at her now, I feel like I don't even know her anymore. She lied to me for a year, and seems to be the first person to throw the blame. I suggested counseling, but it never got off the ground. 

I'm looking for any advice at all right now. I feel lost, hopeless, and completely insecure in everything I am. I do my best to keep our daughter happy, but that frightens me as well. I don't want to leave, but it seems like an option for her. Our daughter isn't technically mine. My wife had her before we even met, and I came around when she was about 2 years old. 4 years later and I'm the only Dad she has ever known. I love her to death, but it worries me that I'm only sticking around for our daughter's sake. I don't even know if I can sort out my emotions right now.

Please help me figure out this mess.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Wow, lots to read. So sorry you're here... so sorry you're there. 

~sammy


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## BigBri (Jul 22, 2011)

RUN... and RUN very fast. She's trickling the truth to you. Does she still work with OM; if so, she needs to quit ASAP. They could still be going at it as we speak.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You don't have time for counseling but she has time for an affair? Wow.

This is just a cluster-eff. I don't even know what to say for advice. Except, maybe leave with your kid.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You can always be there for your step daughter, many step dads do. 
Start a journal and keep track of your thoughts, this helped me alot and some how kept me together.

Now that the confrontation is over, step two what does she want to do, stay married or not?

Don't beg for your marriage that only empowers her to continue in the affair, be confident that you can move on with out her, giving her the perseption that you will leave if the A continues.

Right now is the time to be strong, do not show weakness but strength that you can move on with out her, the more confidence you show the more she will second guess her choices. 

And for god sakes man stop saying your sorry, she made the choice to take the easy way out by cheating. So you emotionaly neglected her, and instead of doing the hard work in addressing the issue she desided to take the weak way out. Do not apologize for her weakness. She could have left you first, like honorable folks do.

If this marriage is to work she must leave her job, there has to be absolutly no contact with OM. If the marriage is to work she has to leave her job on her own.

But first does she want to stay married to you? If she does then set your boundries. Boundries are not ment to control her...you can't, boundries are ment to protect you from more pain.

Keep reading and get as much information as you can about affairs. I read After the Affair by Janis Abrahms.


One more thing counseling is cheaper then divorse she may want to think twice about going....again another boundry for you


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok, it looks like your WW has been in a Long Term Affair (LTA) for over a year now with a coworker. She was even banging him in the elevator, how sordid can you get?

Like a lot of betrayed spouses, you were in denial each time you caught something, then you promptly swept it under the rug each time. Not once did you show her any consequences. As soon as she said sorry, you accepted it, and swept it under the rug again. 

Then you found the panties that you never saw before. One of the red flags that show a spouse is cheating is new underwear/lingerie. Make no mistake, those new panties were for her OM, not you. When you discovered them, she promptly accused you of cheating - as if you would put your GFs underwear in HER top drawer. See how ludicrous that sounds? Yet another red flag that shows a partner is cheating, is that the cheater will often accuse the betrayed spouse of cheating. Why did you play into it? This is a classic tactic that cheaters use to blameshift. 

Then there are all the other classics cheating signs. I'm sorry for the 2x4, but you've been displaying clear doormat behavior to her. 

Your WW has been banging this OM, her coworker, with impunity for over a year now. She has absolutely no respect for you, since you display classic beta male behavior to her. Stop begging, pleading, and saying you're sorry. She is the cheater here. 

Do the 180, let me know if you need a link to that. Start consulting a lawyer to find out what your legal options are.

Is this OM married? If so, find out who she is and expose the A to her. Also, you need to contact their human resources department and expose the both of them. They're having sex on the premesis, even in the freaking elevator!!!

But immediately do the 180 until you are strong enough to decide what you want to do, either R or D.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Listen to mayhem---he is giving you what you need to move forward---no matter which way you go

I am wondering why your wife told you she had sex----she had you believing that it was lip-locking, and you went along----

I am wondering if by doing this, she is trying to get you to leave her---as in finally pushing you over the line, with what may be an exit A., or exit sex.

How has your wife been acting since she told you---what kind of remorse is there, if any at all, is she doing anything to save this mge.?????

I know you love the child---but at this point you must worry about you, your wife could care less about you----This started late in the 2nd year of your mge., this is still a time in the mge., cycle, when things are good, and there are no passion problems tween spouses, yet here you have a spouse who is in a year long A., way to early in the mge.

I am afraid that you are a long way behind your wife's lover, in where you stand in her heart

She is not gonna end this with him, even if you force her to go NC, the only chance is to make her leave her job, so it boils down to mge., vs. job----even then it may be too late for you

You need to ascertain, what you want out of life, You will not forget what has happened, and it will not go away---for the trigger is right there in front of you, in your wife

You get one try at life on this planet---you need to do what is best for you, if she has gone to far, and you can't see a future with her, than so be it---move on, and work your way, back into some form of a normal happy life---eventually you will get there---but IMHO, you need to be free of this toxic woman, who thinks absolutely nothing of you.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the kind words and advice. I spent the past few days thinking things through and spending time with her trying to figure out our life. I took off a couple days of work and she and I had a really good two days together. However, now that I've read what you all have said, I see that it was good because we didn't talk about the affair and I did my best to completely ignore it. It seems like that's the only time we get along now.

It scares me to even think about leaving. I can't see myself leaving my daughter or her at all. If I did leave, I get no custody or rights whatsoever to my daughter because I haven't legally adopted her as of yet. My wife and I have talked about it before, but she isn't ready for it yet.

I brought up to her that I know marriage isn't supposed to be easy and that you are always supposed to work on it together, but it seems as if our marriage has been nothing but constant problem and problem. Something I didn't point out before was that the affair isn't the first time she's had issues with cheating. When we had just started going out she apparently was having sex with a friend of hers on the side (before we had started having sex). She told me several months ago and acted surprised that it bothered me since we weren't technically a couple yet. She then informed me that she had had a little fling with a guy at her previous work that involved texting and flirting at work. She then informed me that her old boyfriend from high school had started texting her again about how much he missed her and how much he wanted to get back with her. So basically I've had a lot thrown on my plate the past week or so.

I also know that I'm not the most emotionally outgoing individual in the world. I've done a lot to show her that I'm not completely able to deal with her emotions, so part of me understand wanting someone to connect with. Before we got married she was raped by one of her male friends she had known for 18 years, and when I found out in one of our counseling sessions I walked out and told her I didn't know how to handle it. It still bothers her to this day, and I understand why. I walked away from her when she needed me the most because I couldn't deal with the fact that some man had violated her and I couldn't stop it. We eventually got back together about two days later (obviously) but I don't think it has ever left her mind. She has severe abandonment issues stemming from her father walking out on her when she was 14 and telling her it was her fault (yeah, he actually said that, verified by her mother) so I don't know what to do.

I keep trying to get her to go to counseling, but I don't know what to do. I don't want to leave my wife, but I don't know if things will ever get better between us. If feels like the only reason we're together is because of guilt and necessity. I hate this feeling, but I know I love my wife. I will be going to counseling (I start again this Friday hopefully) so maybe that will help. 

And I know that's a lot to digest. I know people have it much worse than I do, so I hope no one feels like I'm trying to just bombard everyone with my sob story. It just feels good to write this out and have an anonymous third party see everything and let me know I'm not completely insane.

Thanks so much.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> It scares me to even think about leaving. I can't see myself leaving my daughter or her at all. If I did leave, I get no custody or rights whatsoever to my daughter because I haven't legally adopted her as of yet. My wife and I have talked about it before, but she isn't ready for it yet.


If you're terrified about leaving or your cheating wife ending the marriage, then you're pretty much stuck, and probably won't listen to advice here until one day she finds your replacement and serves you divorce papers. You can't live in fear. 

Man up.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Your fear of losing contact with your step-daughter is understandable but I somehow doubt that if the two of you were to part ways, that she would prevent you from having any contact with her. After all, she would need someone to babysit her when she wanted to have a weekend off and more so since you're cheapest babysitter around ($0.00/hour). You just have to make sure that you don't allow her to use the girl to emotionally blackmail you.

Please read this comment from 8yearscheating in regards to his former unfaithful wife Hit a roadblock in our reconciliation - need advise. You can learn a lot from his experience.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Do not ever downplay your situation, or compare it to anyone else's-----You are struggling with your problems, and to you they are the equal of everyone else's

Everyone of us has to deal with our own lives, and there is no one more important than ourselves

You need to deal with your situation based on what is best for you----If you are living in misery, and you can't get your wife to work on things, or you don't think things will get better with your wife----then no matter what you need to move on

Your daughter is around 6 years old, and as the above poster stated, your wife will need help in caring for her----especially if you leave, and she is forced to take on extra work to make ends meet, or if she can't find work, and can't handle the situation on her own---who knows you just may end up with the daughter-----You just never know how things will turn out

What you must understand, is that you get one try at life, on this planet, and at least do what you need to do, to allow yourself to have a happy, peaceful life, without all this drama, and misery you are going thru-----If that means D., so be it


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'd like to add that based on what you have posted that your wife sounds like a serial cheater- someone who constantly seeks out and engages in affairs

that sort of person doesn't change their ways very often, and it requires long term therapy to boot

I know the step daughter is a factor but you will forever be uncovering affairs unless she shows some real change and attrition


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I know the advice here seems somehow radical. I can however assure you that it is the fastest way out of your misery.

If you are going to reconcile she MUST END THE AFFAIR. If she will not end the affair then you have no real choice but to leave. As you have noticed living the way you are is just miserable.

If you can bear to become a better person while she is there. Do. be more you. she fell in love with you originally. Be you.
Continue to talk.
If you are past this..

The fastest way to end the affair is to let her go. If I had to pick just one paragraph out of the thousands I have read here it would be this one

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us , I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

I so wish I had said this CALMLY and without emotion at the beginning. Refine it to match your situation and then practice it in front of a mirror until you can say it without emotion.
Do not add to it. Do not engage in any way with your wife.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

You decide what is best for you. You have stated you love her and want to work it out. Just remember it takes two. You can't decide for her or force her to change her mind and stop the A. You can be the better choice, try to work on marital issues alone and eliminate behaviors that helped make her vulnerable. BUT, you are in no way responsible for the terrible decision she has made. I had to state what was needed to R - No Contact (NC), transparency - all email, texts, phone records, etc are open in both directions. Then we could TRY. When she refused all of it, I put a time limit on her making a decision, separation and divorce to follow fairly quickly if NC did not happen or NC now and transparency and we could try. Lucky for me she chose now but knew I was serious about the second option because I laid out financials, lawyer costs and how it go from my lawyer - I had already contacted him believing she would stall and stay in contact. I DID NOT follow the 180 to the letter. I kept communication open, I let her know how I felt. To me the 180 is the LAST resort.

Where do you plan to start? You have to get serious and lay out the choices - in or out - no in between unless you want an open marriage where she continues with OM while schmoozing you.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

I've taken time to read and reread a lot of your suggestions. I know I need to man up and be more confident, but I'm having such a hard time right now. My wife has always been able to easily get me to do whatever she wants by turning on the waterworks, and the past few days has been no different. I tried to talk a bit about it, and she disclosed all the details to me. My brain was working overtime with imagery and I told her I just needed to know. However, afterwards she broke down crying and told me how she felt so horrible all the time because she feels like I hold it over her heard now. I don't want to be one of those people who never forgives and never lets go. I feel horrible right now.

A couple nights ago though, my wife and I had sex for the first time since she told me everything. She said it the most passionate we have had in a long time, but it wasn't for me. I was angry the whole time. I've never had sex angry, but I did that day and I felt guilty the entire evening afterward. She tried to initiate sex again last night, but I couldn't stop thinking about the A. We started kissing and my mind went straight to his face kissing my wife's lips. My wife stopped kissing me and gave me her disappointed look and went to the bedroom to take care of things by herself. I feel completely lost right now. It feels like I'm falling endlessly and I'm stuck in some loop watching the same things happen over and over again. What can I do? My ulcer has begun to act up again and my stomach feels like I've been punched and I still have the fist there pushing in as hard as they can. I hate it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

The sex you had was you the caveman male, reclaiming your woman-----now that you have done that---your sub-conscious has taken over, and the visions, are there blocking you, the sex is taking a backseat to other things.

You need to decide what is best for you---stop letting her make your decisions---if she cries, just walk away---

If you decide to R---then you need to lay in some boundaries---no more housefull of her friends, if that's what she needs in preferance to a quiet peaceful mge., then tell her to get a D., and she can live with a housefull of people everyday

She has to quit her job, cuz that's where her lover is, ---she needs to send a NC, message---she needs to be open as to all her electronics----she needs to show heavy remorse, and be completely contrite----basically she MUST DO ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING---Also make her sign a Post--Nup agreement, with a Duress clause.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

I spent about an hour last night calming down my daughter because when my wife and I tucked her in for bed, she began to sob hysterically. What about? Because my daughter didn't want me to leave her. I asked her why she thought I was going to leave, and she looked at her mother and back to me and said "I don't know." I have no idea what's going on. My daughter is in that stage of listening to everything and then repeating it ad nauseum. I spent the rest of the evening wondering what my daughter overheard my wife say, and when I asked my wife about it she said that my daughter was just faking for attention. I've never seen something like that in my almost 4 years of knowing her. 

I feel like I'm at my wits end. Counseling is still not an option to my wife, and I'm falling back into my same patterns of bending over backwards to get my wife anything and everything she needs. I feel trapped and I know it's because of my own doing. I know I have to step up, but it's just so much easier to pretend nothing happened. I can actually relax on the couch after a long day when I ignore everything. When I don't ignore it I spend all day dissecting anything and everything I've ever done. I'm thoroughly convinced it's all my fault, even though I know it isn't true. My wife continues to have the nerve to tell me she worries about me not being a "man of God" because she doesn't want me to miss out on heaven. What God? I mean, seriously. There is no higher power out there watching over us. If there is, then he's just a little kid with a magnifying glass and we're the ants on the anthill he's torturing. 

I don't know. I have no one I can talk to because I'm embarrassed to tell my one or two friends I rely on, and I would never tell my family because I know what cheating did to my parents and myself when I was a kid. 

I apologize if I sound like a weakling who can't figure out what to do with my own life. At this point I know there is no other advice for me to get. I've gotten great advice from people who have been able to deal with things much better than I ever would have. I know it's up to me, but I need to vent. I feel like this is as good a place as any, so feel free to not respond and just leave to me to my own ends.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Let me make things clearer for you

indecision like this a path to your undoing

I don't like calling people doormats or tell them to man up because I feel that lighting a fire under one's ass like (insult them to get them to feel shame and thus do what's needed) may work for some but others tend to shut down and ignore those posters since they deem they are trying to hurt them

So let me instead show you what course you are taking as the limbo you are keeping yourself is pure torture- Shakespeare got it right when he wrote Hamlet

start with this thread- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/22170-dealing-ongoing-emotional-affair.html and then move onto this thread- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24095-synopsis-update-ongoing-emotional-affair.html

I hope HurtinTN doesn't mind I am using him as an example and would think he would like his tale to be cautionary that others could learn from 

bottom line is this-

I know it's scary to think about divorce
I know it's scary to watch your wife cry and then go do the things she does
I know you could miss your step daughter terribly


but where you are at now is ten times worse

the constant stress will destroy you

you need to bring this to it's conclusion (whether it is R or D) faster
no matter what, you are headed there anyways and with inaction you are headed towards D 99% of the time

I wish you well


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## sexuallyfustrated (Mar 24, 2011)

You must start giving some thought to whats in the best interest of you. In the long run I do feel that being able to stay in your step-daughters life but as of now you need to step away from that fatcor because while doing that you are not allowing yourself to deal with what you are feeling and now it is affecting your ulcer. Your health. I know because I have allowed my issues with my husband and the life my kids will have without him take a toll on my health. As 8yr said and some others, when you let them know what the end all will be. What you will or WILL NOT accept and be willing to follow through or just get to that point like I and say to hell with this you deserve better. Things will change. If not from her from yourself. Take your strength and power back. Your confidence. Now only are you going to need it but it help you on the road to who you will be come in your future...good luck to you.


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## Confused_11 (Aug 11, 2011)

In my opinion from the beginning it seems like she was accusing you of an affair to make things equal. If you were doing it then you have no right to be upset with her for doing it. I think that is very childish. 
As far as your step daughter I seriously doubt any judge after seeing how you have been in her life all this time would keep you from her. Just reassure her that you will always be there no matter what.
Keep your chin up. I believe you will do the right thing. Best of luck.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Let me add my two cents on this convo. At some point, you are going to have to ask yourself whether staying around the child is worth the misery you wake up to each and every day. If it is, continue to allow wifey to cake-eat and stop complaining about the situation altogether. Your wife is pulling one if the oldest tricks in the book on you; using the waterworks to tug at your heart strings, only to run over said heart with an SUV the very next time she gets horny. She knows that you won't leave so why should she start a whole new life elsewhere when she already has a stand-in (you) ready to cave at her beck and call? I know that sounds a little harsh but someone needed to say it. Take it from me; a DS will not WILL NOT stop so as you continue to act like a doormat.

In this situation, you have to play the role of Razor Ramon; you have to be the bad guy. You have to get the eff outta dodge, my man. I know you love the kid to pieces but the woman you married CLEARLY do not value the marriage vows, much less you. On top of that, the kid isn't yours so you don't have top worry about child support. Do you know how many folks on this forum would've left on the first thing smoking had they not had to deal with having to pay the WW $$$ for child support? If you're going to stick around, do yourself a favor and please do not father children by her anytime soon. At least wait to see if she truly want to with things out (I have my doubts if it's been going on for this long). But the misery of sticking around and taking this kind of emotional abuse can be devastating to one's psyche.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

So your wife is concerned with you not being a "man of God", but she's not worried about the whole marital vow thing? 

There is a disconnect for the ages right there for you. 

You really might be better off leaving her or putting some form of a 180 on her. That may be the one thing that might salvage your marriage. She needs to wake up.


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## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

You need to take control, you are allowing your WW to do this. You need to ask your WW why her daughter was thinking you were leaving? The odds are she overheard her mom say something to someone. If she will not asnwer ask the child with her mother present but advise the WW she is not so say a word. I would say there is a very good chance you are being played, especially since she will not go to MC.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

IS-
This crap is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with, it is understanding that you feel weak, and you blame your self.

Seven years into my marriage my WW had her 1st affair and we "carpet swept" it. man that was the easiest thing thing to do. So 13 years later (20 yrs total) my WW has slept with 20 men.
Yes 13 years ago it was easy to sweep it under the carpet, but not the healthiest. 

My point is do your self and your family a favor and address this crap head on, or believe me you will pay for it latter.

My marriage was so unhealthy, my life choices and my W life choices were so unhealthy and they just snow balled. Trust me when I tell you this is the time to be strong, no matter how weak you feel. The actions you take now, or DON'T TAKE will effect the rest of your life.

I know how easy it is to just let your wife have her way, but when its all said and done you will not like what she will become with out some action on your part. Ya you may have to leave her but the favor you will be doing for her and the consequnces she will have to face will be the best thing for her. I do hope that she sees a changed man that hase new boundries and respect that in you and the both of you live happily evver after. But the thing here is one way or another you need to make the change now, it will only get worse if you don't. I know, been there done that.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Some additional information/ new developments. My wife has promised to never do it again. She's told me that she's sorry and that she knows it's her fault. However, I got nosy today and checked her cellphone before she left for work. I see that she has deleted the OM's name out of her phone, but she was still texting him. Nothing damning or anything, but just small talk with a few emoticons here and there. But there was something else that bothered me. I see that she has told another male friend at her work about her affair and is no in the process of telling him sorry for dragging him into things and that she hopes it won't hurt their relationship. It scares me to death that she's beginning another EA with someone else yet again. 

I don't know how I should bring this up to her. She doesn't know I checked her cellphone. I don't want to be the one who has broken trust, so I'm at a loss for words right now.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Divorce her. She is a serial cheater. No sooner has she finished a full blown affair with one man, she's has already started an EA with another (telling another man other than her husband about her marital problems IS an emotional affair).


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You should be scared b/c she doesn't get it. Right now her connection should be with you and any thought or emotion that enters her head should be going through you, for some this is called reconnecting, but she still chooses to make the connections with someone other then her husband.

She's sorry and it is all her fault that she got caught. If she only was able to hide it better you wouldn't have gotten hurt. 

Promises are like @ss holes everyone has one!

Were is the behavioral change she needs to make that supports a true remorse for her unhealthy choices?


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## NotaGoodSlave (Jul 29, 2011)

morituri said:


> Your fear of losing contact with your step-daughter is understandable but I somehow doubt that if the two of you were to part ways, that she would prevent you from having any contact with her. After all, she would need someone to babysit her when she wanted to have a weekend off and more so since you're cheapest babysitter around ($0.00/hour). You just have to make sure that you don't allow her to use the girl to emotionally blackmail you.
> 
> Please read this comment from 8yearscheating in regards to his former unfaithful wife Hit a roadblock in our reconciliation - need advise. You can learn a lot from his experience.


He will also be paying Child Support if (make that when) the divorce occurs because his serial cheater, future ex-wife / bimbo will request it. Divorce time is money time for the "ladies". The fact that he is not the biological father will not be material to the court - the fact that the child views him as the father will be...........

So the good news is that he will get to stay in contact with his 2 year old step daughter........the bad news is that and a large portion of his paycheck will get to stay in contact with his future ex-wife in the form of child support payments until his step daughter is at least 18 years old. So in essance his future ex-wife will be receiving a 16 year annuity from her future fomer husband in payment for her being a cheating bimbo.

The end result of signing a marriage contact.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife cheated on you and you are worried about her feeling violated because you looked at her cell phone?

If she won't go to therapy - then keep going by yourself. Talk about your feelings and what you need from the marriage. Talk about how your wife is treating you and forcing you to sweep her cheating under the rug and to just go back to trusting her.

You do not need her agreement or acceptance for you to go to therapy by yourself. She didn't ask permission to cheat did she?

She did what in any marriage is the most heinous act: cheating. She did that you've stayed. Consider that you can demand things too and she'll either stay if she really loves you, or she will go if she is selfish and just using you. But you can't negotiate or placate her into being there.

I really felt sorry for you when I read your other post about the triggers during sex. Instead of comforting you - she went off to finish herself off. That says a lot about your wife and her priorities.

If she says she wants to stay in the marriage is she going to stop going out drinking with other men ? Is she going to open her phone and email to you? Is she going to change anything other than claiming she won't do it again?


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Just an update on the whole situation for anyone who cares to know/read.

My wife and I still together. We have talked several times about things, but we have no started counseling. I'm sinking into a very deep depression right now and I am not going to counseling right now either. I don't feel like it's going to help. There are times here and there in which my wife and I enjoy each other's company. Most of the time though, I'm completely lost in my own world in which I try to figure out how to deal with this whole mess.

I spend all my spare time either reading or playing with my daughter. As far as I know she had ended contact with both her original affair partner and the new guy she was contacting. I confronted her about the other guy, and she just looked at me and asked how I had found out. I told her that I had checked her phone, and that I should have told her immediately but was unsure how to approach the situation. She told me that she understands and that the only way for me to get over things and start to trust her again is if I can do that sort of thing from time to time. I hate it when she talks like that. I guess that's what I get for marrying a counselor.

She also asked me if I wanted to stay married and I told her that I just didn't know. The look on her face made me truly think she feels remorse. Knowing that something she did may cause me to move on hurt her. Badly. She also told me that if I really wanted a divorce then she wouldn't fight it. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. The fact that she so openly told me that worried me a bit, but I don't know. Right now I'm convincing myself to stay around for my daughter. She's about to start Kindergarten, and she's been so clingy to her "DaDa" that I can't bear to not be in her life. I can't bear the thought of not being there in the morning to wake her up. I can't bear the thought of not being there to tuck her in at night. 

I'm okay with living like this if it means I don't have to leave my daughter and make her question why her Dad left her one day. I know that many of you will want to reach through the computer and punch me in the face to "wake me up." I know it's wrong. I know it's wrong to feel this way, and I know it's wrong for things to be this way. It's something I feel like I have to do. Sometimes you have to put others before yourself, especially your children.

Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice throughout the thread. I'm sorry that there are so many people who continue to have problems like this, and I hope that any of you with problems do the right thing for you. I'll update this thread later on if there are any more developments, but as of this moment I don't believe I have else to add.


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## John7308 (Aug 17, 2011)

This thread is painful to read. Let me give you two things to think about.

1. My therapist mentioned something to me that helped me gain clarity. He said "No matter what direction you choose (reconciliation or divorce), when the smoke clears you need to be able to preserve your self respect."
I am afraid that if you keep going down this path, you are going to wake up one day and regret your choices. I am not saying you have to divorce her, but I am asking you to look at yourself in the mirror and determine if you like the person looking back at you. Start respecting yourself and you will find your way out of this mess one way or the other.

2. During one of my marathon "thinking sessions," I was thinking about my two young sons (both under the age of 6). I wondered what I would say to them if one of them came to me for advice and told me the story that I myself have been living. What advice would I give them? Looking at it from that perspective really has helped me out. I would ask that you give it a try. What would you tell your daughter if she came home and told you the story that you have told us?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

In security - ONLY you have to live with the decisions you make. R is hard and regaining trust the hardest part of it. Since your wife is a counselor, ask her flat out WHAT drove her to this? How was she able to lock her feelings for you in box and do this? Does she realize the pain and distrust she has created? I guarantee you she can't answer these questions honestly even though she is a counselor because she hasn't taken ownership of what a terrible person she has become nor is she able to look at herself in the mirror nor is she able to forgive her self IF she truly loves you. I would say just that to her and if she doesn't break down and cry, then you truly have a heartless ***** on your hands that doesn't give two ****s about you. I am an extremely strong proponent of reconciling WHEN BOTH PARTIES are 100% ready to do it. Your wife has NOT VOCALIZED nor shown in concrete actions to you she is. The actions must back the words. 100% transparency. An NC letter to both OM's written by her and sent by you registered return receipt requested snail mail. Notification of the OM's spouses, girlfriends or fiance WITH HER CONSENT if there are one. Seeing an MC. ACTIONS NOT WORDS. It will hurt your/her daughter more to watch the two of hurt each other than it will for you two to seperate. If you wife has ANY heart, she would not cut you off from her even if you did D. Focus on the right way to reconcile and make the marriage last. NOT in creating an iron maiden for yourself to live in.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Just a little update. My wife and I are still together. I broke down and finally told her the only reason I hadn't left was because of my daughter. This was after she had decided to stay out late one night and drink with her best friend and the neighbor guy across the street. I was asleep long before she came home, but I could tell something was wrong the next morning. She then proceeded to tell me how her best friend ended up sleeping with the neighbor (who happens to have two kids and is supposed to be getting married in a few months to his fiance). Of course she acts as if she has no idea how this sort of thing could happen. I tried explaining how odd it is that a soon to be married father of two would want to go out and drink with two mid-twenties women unless he had that exact scenario on his mind. She didn't like that at all.

However, I'm still around. The same night her friend(s) cheated, I found out that she had begun texting one of her guy friends at work about how much she missed him and how drunk she was. He never texted back that night, and I never got to check the phone later in the morning. I confronted her about it and she acted as if she didn't even remember doing it. Since then she has apologize profusely for everything, has asked me what I want her to do to make our marriage work and has stopped all contact with the men she was having a relationship with. She will be leaving her job in a few weeks and starting somewhere else closer to home. I want to believe things can get better. I really do. I just don't feel the same anymore.

It's hard to describe, but I guess the only way to express how I feel is by saying I feel broken. I don't feel like a man anymore. I've begun stress eating again, I don't laugh or smile anymore and my daughter has even noticed a change in me. She actually asked me why I didn't smile anymore the other day. It broke my heart, so I've been doing my best to be the best father I can be to her. Regular trips to the library, cooking together, making tents in the living room out of blankets and bonfires in the cool evenings. Everything she enjoys and it feels good to do it for her.

My wife though, I just can't see her the same anymore. We've had sex a couple times since my last posting. It's very mechanical, and it's obvious that I'm doing it solely because I'm her husband and it's expected. She has a very high sex drive, and I hear her complaints constantly that I don't want to have sex as much as we used to when we were first together. I try to be the best husband I can be, but I've found myself tuning her out lately because I can't stand her talking about work and other people. She gossips all the damn time, always judging those around her. I want to speak up and ask how she can judge others while she still has a lot of work to do to be a better wife. I don't do it though. She's got me beaten down so much that I would never insult her. I don't want to be ripped apart verbally. I've tried in the past to verbalize my thoughts and emotions, but she is incredibly talented in the art of argumentation. I always end up the bad guy. No matter what. I would say that I don't deserve it, but I do. 

I've spent every waking moment of my life pleasing others. Always putting other people's needs and wants above my own. It's how I was raised. I was told that you had to do that to be a good person. I spent my entire formative years saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to anyone and everyone around me. I still call everyone I know "sir" and "ma'am." Even when I know I deserve better treatment, I fall back into my comfortable little existence and bend over. It's easier to do that. It's hard to "man up," as I've seen written so many times on this board. 

Many of you will read this and pity me for being so self loathing and so weak. Don't. Part of me is happy to be this way. I spent several years thinking I would never have a family. That I would always be alone. It may not be a good marriage, but at least I have someone to go home to. I have someone to talk to. I have someone that needs me. I'm not alone, and if it means that I'm unhappy then so be it. I'd rather be unhappy with a family than happy and alone.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> Many of you will read this and pity me for being so self loathing and so weak. Don't. Part of me is happy to be this way. I spent several years thinking I would never have a family. That I would always be alone. It may not be a good marriage, but at least I have someone to go home to. I have someone to talk to. I have someone that needs me. I'm not alone, and if it means that I'm unhappy then so be it. *I'd rather be unhappy with a family than happy and alone*



You're forgetting something important. Your wife can choose to divorce you later on and you WILL be alone. What then? Keep this behavior of yours up and I can guarantee you that she will grow tired of being with a man who is unhappy with his life and has no self-respect. She came very close to doing just that, and the next time she may just leave you for another man.

As far as pity is concerned, I don't pity you at all because you are a grown man with the freedom to choose your course in life. But I do feel sorry for you daughter for having a father who has freely chosen to let his soul shrivel up and die. As a father of two grown daughters myself, I must tell you that you are setting a very bad example for her as to the kind of man she should form a committed relationship with when she becomes a woman.

There is another way and that is for you to stop being a doormat. Buy Dr Robert Glover's book titled 'No More Mr Nice Guy' and read it many times over. It is not about being a jerk but being true to yourself by developing self-respect which in turn will generate respect from others, especially the ones most important in your life, your wife and daughter. For the last two months I have followed Dr Glover's principles and my relationship with my girlfriend has gone from good to great. I believe that if you follow his principles religiously, you will also see a vast improvement in your life.

In any case, I wish you luck.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> ...
> 
> It's hard to describe, but I guess the only way to express how I feel is by saying *I feel broken*. *I don't feel like a man anymore. I've begun stress eating again, I don't laugh or smile anymore and my daughter has even noticed a change in me.* She actually asked me why I didn't smile anymore the other day. It broke my heart, so I've been doing my best to be the best father I can be to her. Regular trips to the library, cooking together, making tents in the living room out of blankets and bonfires in the cool evenings. Everything she enjoys and it feels good to do it for her.
> 
> ...



This is what happens when you let yourself die -- slowly from the inside out. How's your ulcer? 

Your only excuse is your "family". If you think what you have now is a real family, you need to get out of the house more often. Or, read more. Or, observe better.

The lesson you are teaching your stepdaughter is truly sad. Luckily and hopefully for your stepdaughter, your wife will eventually sleep around till she find a man she can respect and leave you and taking her daughter with her. Or, your stepdaughter, when she comes of age, will seek out her biological father.

I think your reality is too narrow. You need to face your fears so that you can expand.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Wow, this is so sad. I feel for you, have you even read anything on the 180? No More Mr Nice Guy? Why refuse to be a man??? You wife does not respect you, an all.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

So youve taken a little time to gather your thoughts, and truly consider how and who you are at this moment, after all this.
You realize it isnt good or healthy or rewarding or the purpose of your life to waste away like this.
Man, take it from me, Ive been through it. I am literally ONE WEEK after my divorce date. I still live in the same house. I see the woman who used to be my wife, go out on friday night and not come home until saturday 1:00pm after noon. I am currently looking for a house and have secured financing. The pure, and sole thing that is keeping me alive and not from falling apart is my little girl, who like yours, needs us now more than ever. You are perpetuating the hugely negative feelings and issues that that little one will have when you do finally decide to get control of your own life again.
Your wife did what she did autonomously. The way with which you react and go forwards is YOUR call, and quite frankly, you deserve and are worthy of happiness. 
Expect to have the feelings of sadness, but also expect to have the good days, where you feel downright just fine.
Once you begin to disentangle yourself from this woman, you will have a new purpose and new reality that is no longer hinged on her actions towards you or the marriage.
Please PLEASE believe that youre going to be alright. Because you will. Ive felt the blackest of sadnesses both for myself and my daughter, I continue to suffer the witnessing of my exwife spiral down the tubes into someone I NEVER expected her to become. 
You deserve better, and you know it, and dont allow yourself to heap guilt on your own conscience because of something you did not do. I literally LAUGH HEARTILY in the face of that tired old self inflicted bullshyt line of "I was never there for her emotionally",, which drove her into the bed of another man... HA HAAAA....
Thats a load of pansy poop, because aside from locking her in the closet there was nothing you could do to stop her, or should have HAD to do to stop her. 
Sometimes, it really is THEIR fault. Maybe a mental condition, maybe a sudden imbalance, may be something completely unrelated to anything you yourself could have possibly done.
So dont sit there and try to think of how you could have would have. 
Go show that kid of yours what real life is all about.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

What a horrible role model this is for your stepdaughter. Are you just going to wait until your wife gives you an STD? You are a very foolish man. It is clear that your wife has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

I am going to reach through the computer and punch you... J/K

But seriosly... i really do feel sorry for you. Because you've lost the battle, and you never even threw a punch!!! The first time, i had wind of an actual affair going on, past or ongoing... she would of surrendered her cell phone and all passwords to me. So there would of been no need of snooping. 

She would of left that job... like literally look for jobs the next day, and putting in her 2 weeks notice within a month. Sorry, you don't get to see the person you had an affair with everyday. IF, and mean, IF... i choose to forgive you for the first affair, i consider you already at strike 2. And you know what happens at strike 3. You attacked this very passivley, and she responded by continuing contact with these guys, starting new EA. Why? Because you didn't put your foot down firmly enough.

Now look we you are at right now. You are miserable and she is fine. I don't believe for a minute she's going through anywhere near the mental anguish you are. LIke mentioned above repeatedly... she's a serial cheater. She's got a emotional disconnect from you that allows her to keep doing this without remorse. 

This is what you do. You pack a bag, leave it in the closet, and inform her in that bag is a few days worth of clothes/toiletries that the next time you even think anything is going on, promise her that she and her daughter will never see you again. Tell her how she will have to explain to her daughter why mommies actions are why dad isn't home anymore...ever. Right now... there is no punishment, no accountability for her actions.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> Just a little update. My wife and I are still together. I broke down and finally told her the only reason I hadn't left was because of my daughter. This was after she had decided to stay out late one night and drink with her best friend and the neighbor guy across the street. I was asleep long before she came home, but I could tell something was wrong the next morning. She then proceeded to tell me how her best friend ended up sleeping with the neighbor (who happens to have two kids and is supposed to be getting married in a few months to his fiance). Of course she acts as if she has no idea how this sort of thing could happen. I tried explaining how odd it is that a soon to be married father of two would want to go out and drink with two mid-twenties women unless he had that exact scenario on his mind. She didn't like that at all.
> 
> Many of you will read this and pity me for being so self loathing and so weak. Don't. Part of me is happy to be this way. I spent several years thinking I would never have a family. That I would always be alone. It may not be a good marriage, but at least I have someone to go home to. I have someone to talk to. I have someone that needs me. I'm not alone, and if it means that I'm unhappy then so be it. I'd rather be unhappy with a family than happy and alone.


Naw, it's not pity......

As a general rule in relationships, people should treat their partners with respect, decency, and fidelity. But rules are made to be broken, and if one side elects to skip on, for instance, fidelity, well, things get a little complex.

You've put up with infidelity for a long time, now. You have thanked commenters for their advice while not acting on any of it. And in your final paragraph, you state a set of reasons why you find the situation satisfactory. 

If you think this is what you deserve, nobody else on this forum is going to persuade you otherwise. I guess the only advice I can offer you is,

You know that horrible churning feeling in your gut? Get used to it.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> I am going to reach through the computer and punch you... J/K
> 
> But seriosly... i really do feel sorry for you. Because you've lost the battle, and you never even threw a punch!!! The first time, i had wind of an actual affair going on, past or ongoing... she would of surrendered her cell phone and all passwords to me. So there would of been no need of snooping.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## msharley2u (Mar 4, 2011)

wow, I just read through your post on here, lots going on with your wife. Hmm, I can imagine you have all kinds of emotions going through your mind, and this is a very upsetting time. But you have to decide what you need to do, not what she wants you to do. Its time to make up your mind and go forward with it. Offer up counseling again to see if she will do it, but something tells me she doesnt want to, because she will feel like the bad guy in this, and really she needs the counseling to help her sort her feelings out. I understand you love the daughter, but you too, need to love yourself and take care of yourself. While she is out doing whatever you are sitting at home waiting for her and thinking about what she is doing, and its not helping your health any. Give yourself some support to, if she doesn't want to go, go yourself and focus on you, and hopefully you will still get to see your daughter. I just got divorced with what I went through my ex decided he wanted to be with younger women and drink well he is still doing the same thing, and will never change you cant change anyone but yourself. Take care now, and God bless.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Last night was a horrible night. I was buried in a book all evening (as I normally do to try to ignore the constant thoughts of her affair and my ever increasing depression) and my wife continually asked me what was wrong. She hadn't done that in a long time. My response all evening was that I was "Fine." Of course, she didn't believe that, and neither did I.

Fast forward to later on, we tuck our daughter in and my wife asks me to come outside to talk. I don't really feel like talking, but I do it anyway. My wife looks me straight in the eye and asks if I want to stay in the marriage and if I still love her. I tell her that of course I love her still. I don't think I would ever stop loving her, no matter what would happen. However, at this point I don't know what happened inside of me. I had to tell her everything. I finally told her that the only reason I hadn't left yet was because I didn't want to be just another man who abandoned his kids. I didn't want to be my daughter's father who abandoned her. Other than that reason, I said that I don't see our marriage ever getting any better.

She continued to look at me. No crying, no whining and no sign of emotion. I asked how she could act that way, and she responds "I've learned to compartmentalize my emotions. It won't do any good for both of us to be an emotional wreck right now." I hate it when she does this. When she turns on "counselor mode." When she starts treating me like one of her patients. I tell her, and she says she isn't doing that. She just wants to have an open discussion about our marriage and what we can do to make our lives better.

Well, I basically spilled my feelings completely and totally. I cried when I told her how I didn't deserve this. That no matter how terrible of a husband she thought I was that I never deserved to be treated how she treated me. We also began to talk about our entire marriage (which is only 3 years so far). I told her how hurt I am that for our first year of marriage, she decided to spend most of her time away from me and our daughter so that she could go out and smoke pot with her friends. She comes back with how insensitive it is for me to say that because she was still dealing with her rape from a year before. Of course my response is that "If that was still something you were dealing with, then why get married?" She didn't have a response except that she loved me.

Of course we then move on to our miscarriage and how it negatively affected us. She tells me that she doesn't think I ever truly got over it yet. I tell her it was two years ago, and it still hurts to think about but I don't dwell on it anymore. We then move on to how hurt she still is over the fact that when she told me about her rape I left the counseling session and didn't talk to her for two days. She says she is still afraid I'll walk out when time are tough again. I tell her that I'm still here after the affair, and she starts crying. 

Now, this isn't her normal crying. This is her "I'm completely broken and I don't know how I can go on" type crying. I ask her what she's thinking, and she tells me that she knows she f*$#ed up. That she knows if I wanted to leave I would have an out. She knows that I didn't deserve that type of treatment. I ask her how she could of have put herself in a similar situation with the guy across the street (earlier posting) and she says she needed to be able to see for herself that she could resist that sort of temptation. I bring up the fact that the same night she was "resisting temptation" she decided to start a text message conversation with one of the guys from her work that has feelings for her. She says that she just wanted to say hello and be friendly with him because he always makes fun of her when she's drunk. "How many times have you been drunk around him before," I ask. Just a few when we went out to the bar after work. 

It's at this point that we begin discussion on our reneweal of vows scheduled for this December. I hadn't mentioned that before in this posting because it just seemed like too much information. My wife still wants to do it because it would be like a "fresh start." We'd be getting a chance to begin again without any huge problems lingering over us this time (last time when we got married we had her rape and the miscarriage very close together. Not the greatest start I know). I tell her that I can't view it as a fresh start when I'm still trying to get over what just happened.

All hell breaks loose.
Wife: "I've been working on this wedding for over a year!" she says. 

me: "Yeah, while you were out f*73ing some other guy and telling me you love me every day!"

Wife: "I still love you and I would never have left you. I wish I wouldn't have ever told you about it all."

Me: "You didn't tell me. I found out because you left your cellphone out and I wanted to check to see if you had anything on your schedule the next day. You were talking about how much you missed each other, that you wanted to be more than f&*% buddies, and that you were planning on having a date that week. You were even talking about ways to fool me into thinking you had to work late!"

Wife: "I was planning on ending it with him the next day after those messages. I just had to play along to make sure he didn't have any of the pictures I sent him of myself on his phone. He could have gone to HR and gotten me fired!"

Me: "So what was more important? Your job with him or your marriage?"

Wife: "My marriage, but it would have been so embarrassing to have everyone know at work. I couldn't let them find out."

At this point I lost it. I know I shouldn't have, but I did. I told her that I didn't want to be married anymore. That I didn't want to be in a relationship with someone who could lie to me straight in the face so many times and still feel like the whole situation was warranted. She became stone cold again. She asked me point blank to decide whether or not I would leave. It was my decision completely, and she wouldn't fault me for walking away. All she asked is that I imagine our future and see if I couldn't see us being happy together in 50 years. I told her that I couldn't. I told her that since we've been together (dating and marriage) she has slept with a previous boyfriend multiple times while we were first dating, she had an emotional affair with a guy from work while we were seriously dating, she sexted with a previous boyfriend while married, she had an EA/PA with a guy from work, and I had caught her in the beginnings of another EA with a second guy from work. I told her that all I could see in our future was me becoming a doormat. Someone who would just see my wife constantly seeking other men's attention and always knowing she could come home to her old standby. I told her I didn't want to be that standby, that I wanted to be her only man and that I didn't see it working out that way. She promised me multiple times that she would never stray again. 

I sat in silence for a while. I had to think things through. I know my wife very well. If I did walk away I may end up happier that I have been in a long time. However, she would do everything she could to make sure that I would be the bad guy for leaving. I wouldn't see my daughter ever again. My mother-in-law, whom I love more than my own mother, would have yet another reason to hate men. I would lose the only family I've ever really felt like I've had. 

After everything I had said and felt, I told her I wouldn't leave. I told her that I would never leave. It was a complete switch for her. She became happy and wanted to hold me. I let her of course, and she asked if we could still do the wedding. "No. I don't want that." She immediately became secluded again. My wife isn't used to not getting her way. I know I'm a broken man right now, but I just can't do a wedding right now. I'm going to try to mend my marriage and myself. I don't see how I can do it at this point, but I'm going to try.

I apologize for the length and poor grammar of this post. I feel a little better writing it all out.


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## sam83 (Jul 23, 2011)

man did u expose the affairs if u do how any one make u the bad guy tell everybody u tried to work things out but u couldn't speak to lawyer regarding ur daughter u did great job last night and destroy it by letting her back in minutes 

do she still work with OM did she sent NC letter do u have full transparency u didn't want to be a doormat then show her hard u r not one 

all this drama in 3 years I'm really sorry for u man


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## LabTool (Sep 8, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> I told her that I would never leave.


I'm afraid this will be your downfall. It might seem like I just picked a single sentence from your post, but after all that drama everything lead to "I would never leave". This is probably not the first time you've said or implied this and your wife knows it.


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## sam83 (Jul 23, 2011)

LabTool said:


> I'm afraid this will be your downfall. It might seem like I just picked a single sentence from your post, but after all that drama everything lead to "I would never leave". This is probably not the first time you've said or implied this and your wife knows it.


:iagree::iagree:

he had the golden chance to take control and let it go :scratchhead:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> After everything I had said and felt, I told her I wouldn't leave. I told her that I would never leave. It was a complete switch for her. She became happy and wanted to hold me. I let her of course, and she asked if we could still do the wedding. "No. I don't want that." She immediately became secluded again. My wife isn't used to not getting her way. I know I'm a broken man right now, but I just can't do a wedding right now. I'm going to try to mend my marriage and myself. I don't see how I can do it at this point, but I'm going to try.
> 
> I apologize for the length and poor grammar of this post. I feel a little better writing it all out.


I don't pity you. You made your choice and will deal with the consequences.

I do pity your daughter. You are teaching her how a marriage will be. That one partner can have multiple affairs and disrespect the other, and that other partner should take it. I pity the marriage she will have because you and your wife taught her that this was acceptable. Please think about that.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

LabTool: Yes, I have said that I would never leave before, because I honestly meant it. This has been a reoccurring theme within out marriage. She has dealth with abandonment issues from the men in her life for as long as she can remember, so she has always had to have me reassure her that I would never leave. It sucks, but I've become used to it and I understand where she is coming from.

Tall_Average_Guy: I thought about my daughter last night. I actually brought up that fact to my wife, saying what would we tell her if she was cheated on later in her life. My wife didn't have anything to say, but I point blank said that I would tell my daughter to drop the guy in a heartbeat. I followed up with that immediately by saying that I would want to say that, but I'm not sure anymore, because I'm not getting out of the relationship anyway. 

I know it's a weird situation. I know some of you don't understand, and the more time I've had to think about things today I have begun to no longer understand my own logic as well. I feel like a doormat. Like a worthless piece of garbage. All I can think about today is that we have both let each other down so much. I've tried to be a good husband. I know I'm a good father. I don't know what I can do to get through this. The thought of suicide started coming back into my mind again today, but I immediately blocked it out because I would never do that to my daughter. 

Earlier today my wife started texting me and asking me why I didn't look at her during sex last night. (Yes, we had sex last night. It was angry sex on my part, but she seemed to enjoy it greatly.) I told her it was because when I look into her eyes during sex, all I can think about are the lies and the other man doing what I'm doing. She hasn't responded back to me all day, but it's okay I guess...


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## LabTool (Sep 8, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> LabTool: Yes, I have said that I would never leave before, because I honestly meant it. This has been a reoccurring theme within out marriage. She has dealth with abandonment issues from the men in her life for as long as she can remember, so she has always had to have me reassure her that I would never leave. It sucks, but I've become used to it and I understand where she is coming from.


Ofcourse man that was a different context. Here in this case SHE HAS BETRAYED YOU, and yet you utter those words. Something tells me this is not the first time you've said or implied that even after you were betrayed. For that reason, this cycle might never stop.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Can you try to explain how in your wife's head she believes that you are the one who can't get into heaven meanwhile she is the one who has repeatedly cheated?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here I honestly want to understand how people claim to believe in god and morality et al yet cheat and do it repeatedly?

Are they simply hypocrites are they truly self deluded?

How does thus work in their world?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> The thought of suicide started coming back into my mind again today, but I immediately blocked it out because I would never do that to my daughter.


You say you would never do that to your daughter, but you are laying the foundation for a miserable marraige for her. Teaching her the cheating is both acceptable and to be expected. You are knowingly harming your daughter.

Perhaps this is harsh, but you do not seem willing to stand up for yourself, so I am trying to get you to stand up for you daughter. Stand up and teach her what is acceptable. Teach her how spouse should expect to be treated. In doing so, you may learn something for yourself as well.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The fact is this is hard stuff. I know you've been through h*ll. That doesn't mean your in an impossible situation. Remember your highest priorities are to provide for and protect your family, including protecting your wife from other men.

It isn 't how fast you do this but there is not a moment to lose. Start here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read these threads and work on yourself. Is it going to work overnight? Of course not . You did not get here over night. The point is though these things have worked over and over. Remember you can not give up, your families entire future is on your shoulders and you CAN handle it, and it will get easier and easier. Expect setbacks, if it were easy anybody could do it.

One thing that helps so much is exercising and weight training. A workout releases hormones,chemicals etc. that makes you feel good and mentally helps keep up the optimism. When I am feeling stressed it works wonders for me, like turning on a light switch. Plus a woman loves muscles no matter what they say.

Work hard and you will create your own good luck but good luck and prayers to you anyway.

Chap


PS If you need inspiration, search out the statistics and info for children of divorced parents. Build a functional relationship with your wife and don't take no for an answer. Do what you have to do to keep her honest.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

I read the threads you suggested chapparal. Unfortunately, I read them too late it seems. I'm going to try to be stronger, but it's so difficult. I've spent my life bending to the will of the women in my life. When it comes to men, I have no problem standing up for myself. I'm not a small person by any stretch of the imagination (6'7" and 370lbs), but when my wife and I start talking I shrink into nothingness. I don't know why I do this, but I always have.

I broke down the other day, and after throwing up from stress/ulcers for the third time in the day, I told her that we needed to talk about things. She is always so cold and calculating when it comes to talks about our marriage. She tells me that she will never stray from our marriage again. She tells me that she loves me and she knows she has hurt me. She tells me all the things I used to do for her (massages, nights out, doing housework, doing yard work, reserving the local planetarium for our own personal movie theatre) were things she just got used to and didn't think about anymore. She says she realizes that she screwed up royally and that she knows I'm a great husband. The entire time she is telling me this, all I can think about it the fact that she told me how emotionally distant I was for so long and how I didn't fulfill her sexual needs. It's grating to hear her gush about me when I don't know if I believe it.

I tell her how I feel and that it's hard for me to understand how she could lie to me in the face for over a year so easily. She says that it wasn't easy, but she knew how hurt I would be. I bring up the fact that she shouldn't have put herself in the position of possibly cheating again with the guy across the street (previous posting) and she says she needed to prove to herself that she wouldn't be tempted. She says that temptation to do those sort of things (cheat, drink, smoke, etc.) are everywhere. I tell her that I have never been tempted to cheat on her before. "Well, you're a much better person than I am." I don't even know what to say. We go back and forth for a while. I never raise my voice, and I keep a calm facade as best as I can. The only problem is that she has an answer for everything.

Near the end of our conversation she brings up our renewal of vows. She still wants to do it. I tell her that I already said I didn't feel comfortable doing it, but she continues on. "I want to do it because I want us to have a fresh start. I want us both to show that we are committed to this relationship." This again? I don't even know what to say. I sit there for a moment, and I look up and see her staring at me. I don't know what it was inside me, but I break and tell her that we should do the wedding. Part of me does feel that we should, but it's only because we've invested so much time and money already. I feel no emotional need to do it any longer. It will be just another day for me. 

I sit here thinking about how I don't know that I'll ever get over it. I know in my heart of hearts that she'll do it again. She's shown the same behavior patterns over and over again. I know it's just a matter of time. It may be a few years away, or it may be in a few weeks when she starts her new job. I don't know when, but I know I'll be in the same place I am right now again someday. It isn't a happy place to be, and I feel trapped. I want to be an upstanding man who puts his family first and foremost. Above all else, I want people to know how good of a father I am to my daughter. I want my daughter to be happy and healthy. I know I'm not setting a good example. I know there will be some uncomfortable questions one day, and I feel like the best course of action for me to keep my sanity and my health is to leave her and move on (while keeping contact with my daughter). I'm trying to be stronger, but it's just so damn difficult when all my sense are telling me that my happiness doesn't matter.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I'm not trying to pick a fight here I honestly want to understand how people claim to believe in god and morality et al yet cheat and do it repeatedly?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't know the exact answer, but my wife did mention to me last night that she felt horrible after church. Apparently one of the things the pastor talked about (I didn't go as I work on Sunday mornings) was one of the only grounds for divorce is cheating. She looked me straight in the face, while crying, and told me that if I left her she wouldn't begrudge me. I was dumbstruck and had no idea what to say. I'm not a religious man by any means, but I do believe that the Bible is a wonderful teaching tool on how to treat your fellow man (in some aspects obviously). I don't know how people can claim to believe in the Almighty and then turn their back on their own religion. However, I work at a private Christian college, and I can tell you that just because people claim to be something doesn't mean they follow the rules.


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## sam83 (Jul 23, 2011)

good luck when she do this to u again as u know what u r just enabling her to.

OMG I just want to understand why people allow this to happen to them while I agree the affair is not ur fault every action after it is yours.

I would go for the new vows ceremony and when asked would u took x to be ur wife again I'll just say NOOOOOOO I don't ever want to c her again but that's just me


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It is absolutely ridiculous to renew your wedding vows. It clearly has no significance to her since she broke them so easily before. Therefore what is the point? You will suffer because you allow yourself to suffer. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. If the roles had been reversed, she would have kicked you out a long time ago for putting health at risk for STD's like she has to you. How very sad for your daughter. What a role model.


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Can you try to explain how in your wife's head she believes that you are the one who can't get into heaven meanwhile she is the one who has repeatedly cheated?
> *
> I'm not trying to pick a fight here I honestly want to understand how people claim to believe in god and morality et al yet cheat and do it repeatedly?
> *
> ...


they sold their God to affair, trading sex with God's Forgiveness. 
shame .. really shame


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

This is going to be harsh, kinda sorry in advance. But you can read my lifes story in another thread on this same forum, I am an open book. I know the hurt of betrayal (30 year marriage) it only happened once, I will not allow it to happen again. I cry myself to sleep many nights, I could not work for two months, only recently kinda working. My world seems at time to have ended. But at least I havent sat around quivering like a scared little mouse, I am a man. I quit drinking, I quit watching tv (for last 9 weeks) I started lifting weights, I lost 50 pounds, I started going to church. Why all these things? Because I needed to work on me, my stbx may or may not come back, I love her as much as any man has ever loved his wife, much more than most. But I control ME, she can do what she thinks is necessary for her, but I will do what I need. I wrote my daughters a letter, expressing my sorrow for the failure of my marriage, taking 50% responsibility and only 50% responsibility for marriage failure, but I put 100% on her for the affair. I explained to them that an affair is never an option, that they ever act the same they will never get any support from me. I WANTED THEM TO KNOW THIS. You however are harming your daughter when you dont stand up for what is right. My life sucks, but it will be better than it was before. You my dear friend need to grow a pair, if not for you for your daughter...lay awake at night (I know you do, I do) and think of her. If someone where to attack her physically you would kick the s***t out of them, yet you ALLOW a more dangerous thing to her and her health to go forward. I am sorry for HER, you have some control, use it or for ever suffer. At least you will deserve what you get. I will pray for you and your daughter, I have been doing a lot of praying lately, the difference between you and I, is when I am done praying I am acting on it.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

okay, seriously dude? She cheats on you. Sleeps with this guy. (and he's the only one that you know of.) and what happens next? You let her continue that plans with renewing wedding vows. This woman has NEVER been faithful to you and it seems like you're rewarding her rather than leave her.

You know why she wants to do this. And it isn't to "start with a new beginning." She's told a ton of people about this party for a while now. If she has to cancel, people will start to ask. "Is everything alright in your marriage? How come you cancelled re-affirming your vows to each other?" Do you really think that she's gonna respond with, " Oh, my husband found out that I've been cheating on him throughout our entire marriage and he doesn't think it's a good idea right now." She doesn't want to explain anything. She wants to put up a facade that you two are extremely happy and life couldn't be better instead of the embarrassment of explaining the cancelation. It's all about how it would make HER look.

And I am sorry that she was raped before you two were together. But, if she recongizes that, that might be the main cause of her problems then fix it rather than use it as a crutch to justify her current actions. She needs to be a survivor and stop being a victum. ( this paragraph might get me some bashing so, I'll just apologize up front.) But, I will say this. I, myself, was a victum of a violent crime. But now, I'm a survivor. That's the only way you can move forward.

Your WW has NEVER had to deal with the consequences of her actions. She breaks your heart all she has to do is turn on the waterworks and belittle herself for a while....and you fold. 

So, if I were you, I would say that we can renew our vows, but you have some conditions first. Number one, she quits her current job. Number two, you two go into marriage counseling and number three, she tells her parents about all the times she's cheated on you. ONLY THEN, would you consider re-newing your vows. I'd be curious to see what her answer would be.

NOW, what you need to do, is find out if the OM is married or has a girlfriend. This information shouldn't be too hard to find out. If he isn't married or in a relationship, then find out who his parents are. If he's married or in a relationship, you need to tell them that he has been sleeping with your wife. They have the right to know what kind of man they are involved with. Or I'm sure that his mother would love to know what kind of son they raised that chases after and sleeps with married women.
DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE DOING THIS!! This will only get her to warn the OM and he can concoct a viable story that you are a complete nut bag and to ignore anything you have to say. This gives the OMW a right to choose what she wants to do with this information and to let her know that her marriage is a lie. Also, it lets your wife feel the conseqences of her actions. She is sorry, but the only thing she's sorry for is getting caught.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

So, a little update because I feel like I'm going crazy and I have absolutely no one to talk about this.

My wife and I had a long talk last night again. She has been spending money like crazy lately on new clothes and things to decorate the house. She has taken down a ton of our family photos in the living room and put them in storage and has replaced them all with "Fall harvest" decorations. I didn't say much at first, but the opportunity presented itself finally. I had to ask if she was getting the house ready so she can kick me out and if she is buying clothes to impress someone else. She looked at me like I had just kicked her in the face. "Of course not" she says. She apparently redecorated the house because she was feeling depressed by all our dark colors and she bought new clothes for her new job that she starts next week. She goes on and on about how she can't believe I would think that and that she had a great day shopping and spending time with her friend (female) and I had to bring it all crashing down and make her feel like ****. She says she feels like she is being punished all the time and that she is hurting a lot. She says that she feels like she's the only one hurting right now. Apparently the look on my face made her realize how dumb she had just sounded. She backtracks immediately and says that she didn't mean it come out like that.

We continue on the conversation and it goes back to the renewal of our vows. I bring up that I still don't feel comfortable with it because we've only been married for 3 years and she already proved to me multiple times that our vows don't matter. She says she can't cancel it now because she has sent out all the invitations and she doesn't want to have to explain why we aren't doing it anymore. I point blank told her "tough, you were the one who cheated, not me." Her response? "You've always wanted to know why I did it, and it's days like today that made it easy."

Hold the ****ing phone. Because we're having a bad day (started by the fact that you were out screwing a guy on the side) you feel like it was easy to get involved with another man? I have to ask how she's serious. I tell her that no matter how many bad days we had I never once thought about seeking another woman. All the times she was out late at night with her friends at the bar. The entire first year of our marriage that she spent away from me and our daughter while she could go smoke pot with her buddies. I never once even considered it. "Well, you're a better person that I am. I need that emotional connection from someone who doesn't make me feel like crap." I tell her that no, what she needs is someone who has no emotional investment in her life so that she can do whatever she wants without repercussions. I tell her that her comments make it apparent that she will probably end up cheating on me again. She tells me over and over again that it will never happen. I have no idea how I should even trust her.

Tonight I will be telling her that the renewal is off. She has to be the one to tell people why, and honesty would be best but I can't force her to go into details. I will also be spending the next week or so deciding whether or not I can continue in this marriage. I see no way out because she doesn't seem to understand what she has done, nor does she seem to understand that I won't be a fall back guy her entire life. I can't be. I don't deserve to be. 

I read in another thread a great response to someone's question about how to forgive and let go. I don't remember who it, but thank you.

Misquoted probably: "I forgave my wife as a person, but I couldn't forgive her as my wife." 

I think this is my only option right now. I have a lot of thinking to do now.

Thanks for reading and all of your continued advice. It's taken a long time, but I think I'm finally understanding.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

BINGO!! Told ya it "wasn't for a new start". It was because she didn't want to explain why you're not renewing your vows. It's all about her and selfishly motivated.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I know what it's like when they TELL you that they will never do it again. But they never DO anything to prove it to you. That's why I'm a firm believer in actions speak louder than words.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Good for you. I think you really laid it all out for her. Perhaps she'll (finally) realize how utterly selfish she has been all this time...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> I read in another thread a great response to someone's question about how to forgive and let go. I don't remember who it, but thank you.
> 
> Misquoted probably: "I forgave my wife as a person, but I couldn't forgive her as my wife."
> 
> I think this is my only option right now. I have a lot of thinking to do now.


Is the post below the one you're talking about?



> What is forgiveness?
> 
> For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.
> 
> ...


If it is, I plead guilty as charged.

Just as there is no shame in reconciling with an unfaithful spouse, there is also no shame in choosing not to. Everyone is different and there is no one answer to whether to continue or not with the marriage rocked by infidelity. You have to do what is best for YOU because no matter what the outcome of the marriage is, you will have to live with yourself and with the decisions that you make. Choose wisely.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good luck and prayers for your family, hope you all can work it out. Your learning "strong" stay that way. It doesn't make you an a$$ it makes you a man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

InsecureSecurity said:


> I've spent every waking moment of my life pleasing others. Always putting other people's needs and wants above my own. It's how I was raised.


And this...is the crux of all your problems. 

Stop focusing on her and what she does, get yourself to therapy to learn how to stop being a Giver, and start fixing it. Once you do that, everything else will fall into place.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Stand fast on the vows. She already spat on them once, don't enable her and stand there for a second sham like a sucker.

Tell her maybe someday when she has proved she is capable of staying true to them after say 20 years.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Her taking the family photo's down is bull, I don't know what is going on inside her head , I do know that this reads like a message that she is getting ready to move on from you. In a time of family crisis due to an affair it is normally the BS who removes the photo's not the wayward . As your wife is removing then I would not trust her intentions.

I agree with cancelling the vows renewal , tell her to move the date to a time yet to be confirmed , this tells her you are ot saying no you are however wanting her to evidence her commitment to the marriage. As for the reason to move the date, be honest she cannot expect you to lie for her, nor should you hide the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Her taking the family photo's down is bull, I don't know what is going on inside her head , I do know that this reads like a message that she is getting ready to move on from you. In a time of family crisis due to an affair it is normally the BS who removes the photo's not the wayward . As your wife is removing then I would not trust her intentions.
> 
> I agree with cancelling the vows renewal , tell her to move the date to a time yet to be confirmed , this tells her you are ot saying no you are however wanting her to evidence her commitment to the marriage. As for the reason to move the date, be honest she cannot expect you to lie for her, nor should you hide the truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Taking down the family pictures is a BAD sign, she's possibly trying to avoid her guilt. Considering what she's done, I would imagine that she would want to put up more family photos. This indicates that she's not truly remorseful.

AND she's still blameshifting! So because of days like this, she decides to cheat? She's still justifying her affair. That's a sad excuse. And she wants to renew the vows? *Aren't one of those vows "For better or worse"?* Seriously?

Your gut instinct is right, as it usually is. She's not feeling TRUE REMORSE for what she's done, she's actually trying to avoid it. And she will cheat again. What she's doing is trying to rug sweep.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

My wife seems to honestly be trying to reconcile. She constantly tells me how much she loves me and that she wants to spend the rest of my life with me. However, she always seems to revert to her true self as soon as she wants to. I hate that about her. I told her that I feel like the only way for us to truly be happy is to divorce and start over fresh. She says that our entire marriage has been on auto pilot the whole time. It hurst to hear that, but I believe her. I feel the same way now that I've looked at the entirety of our relationship. We spent the first year apart all the time, we spent the second year ignoring our problems, and we've spent the third year dealing with an affair and the breaking of our vows. I told her all that, and she tells me that she feels like she's the only one working on our marriage. I ask how she's working on it and she immediately gets defensive. She tells me that she has stopped going out to bars, she won't talk to any of her guy friends anymore, and that she quit a job she loves to be away from her temptations. I tell her that she is doing what she should have been doing all along, and that I don't see it as showing remorse but guilt. 

Last night was a terrible night. She kept nagging me all day about how I didn't do enough all day around the house (I was spending a Daddy/daughter day with my daughter and I still managed to bleach the bathroom, clean the kitchen, vacuum and mop the floors, do 4 loads of laundry, rearrage the living room furniture the way she wanted, and do the lawn care I normally do on the weekends). I told her what I had done and she tore into me about how I never do enough and that it doesn't seem like I care about having our family live in a nice home. Well, I broke down mentally. I told her that at least I cared enough about my family to not cheat on her. I went off for a few minutes and finally told her that I really truly want a divorce. I tell her that I've had it with being unhappy all the time and that I deserve a right to be happy. She doesn't like this one bit, and after punching me and slapping me for a few minutes she finally calms down enough to tell me she feels like it's my fault I wasn't there to protect her from being raped (I was supposed to go to visit her friends while we were dating but I got called into to work last minute) and that the reason she cheated was because I couldn't handle her rape and walked out during a counseling session. She continues on telling me how emotionally detached I've been the whole time we've been married, and I finally step in and cut her off. I literally sat there and listened the whole time (even while the fists and palms were flying). I tell her that this seems to be the end. That I can't handle anymore and that we both deserve better. She tells me that I'm just like my mother (which is a sever no-no in our relationship) and I snap. The dishes that I had just finished cleaning in the kitchen go flying. I break pretty much every damn coffee cup we own. At this point we both stop and she collapses to the floor telling me she didn't mean any of it and that she's sorry. She knows she is the one that screwed up an that I didn't deserve any of it. The problem is that the things she has said to me are common in our arguments. My inadequacies are always brought up, and she knows how to puch my buttons.

Fast forward to today and she's been texting me all day about what I want. She wants to know what I see for us in 10 years and I tell her I see two people who have become complacent with each other and who lost love for each other a long time ago. The wedding renewal is back on according to her, even though I've told her it has no meaning to me anymore since our vows weren't worth her time the first time around. 

I have a lot of continued thinking to do. I feel broken and alone. I spent a lot of time playing with my pocket knife today and I found that lightly cutting my arm felt damn good. I know this isn't a good sign since I know many cutters, but it felt ****ing fantastic. I don't know why I wrote all this. I guess I just wanted a place to vent. Since I have no friends who know about everything, this is the best I have right now.

Thanks.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

*YOU ARE NOT ALONE!*. First off, you have that wonderful gift from God, your daughter (hey, I'm a father of two girls what can I say?  ), and second you have us, the cyber strangers who welcome you with open arms and commiserate with you. Feel free to PM me if you'd like.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I consider myself very pro-marriage. However, I also believe that if you find your mate as someone you cannot see yourself growing old together with, then you should get out of it asap. IMO, M is easier than D. In your case, I really think you are better off Ding her. 

I am not talking about even her recent A. It's just her overal character makeup that worries me. She just does not seem a good marriage material. She strays so early in the marriage, and how she carries around herself with you in general permeates extreme selfishness and something seems just not wired right. 

You constantly mention your love and dedication towards the girl who is not your biological daughter. I can see you are a family man type with good heart, but you must accept that she is not your biological daughter. As much as you love her, she should not be the sole reason for your staying in this broken relationship. You have so many years ahead of you, and if you do not get out now, there may come the time that you regret not getting out when you had the chance. 

Affair can be truly a mistake in some situation, an unintentional error in judgement, and the perpetrator can still be considered a "good" person at heart despite A. I am sorry to say in your WW's case, I just don't see her that way. She is a bad news and she will suck the life out of you gradually if you stay with her. This may the chance God is giving you to reassess where you are and take hard action to save yourself from the long term grief. 

For some, R is harder, and for some D is harder. For someone like you, the latter seems the case. I am not trying to make decision for you. It is your life and your decision, but you must take a good look at your partner. Can you truly see yourself happy and content with this woman 10, 20 years from now? Remember, the general makeup of people do not change so easily. What you see now is likely what you will have to live with for the rest of your life. And, do not use your daughter as an excuse! Think for yourself. Solely for yourself. Make the decision for yourself. Not for your daughter, and certainly not for your WW.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

great advise sadcalifornian.

~sammy


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

My wife worked all day yesterday, but continued to text all evening (after my initial post). A little background info before I continue:

I spent about three years before meeting and dating my wife in a deep depression. I dated two women in this time, one of which used me for a purely sexual object and coerced me into having sex based on the idea that she would leave me if I didn't. I was weak, and I hated it everytime we did anything. I finally grew a pair and kicked her to the curb. The other girl used me as a way to "break into the college life." So, basically I had two horrible relationships in a short span. I spent most of the time alone and feeling like I would always be alone. I had no trust in my fellow man and certainly no trust in women (my mother helped contribute to that). 

My wife asked me if I was feeling like I felt before I met her. She wanted to know if I felt as depressed in the years before I got out of my funk and got married. I told her the truth, and I don't know exactly how she took it. I told her that I feel worse that I have ever felt before. I trusted no one before her, but after we started dating I felt like I could trust her with anything and everything. I knew in my heart of hearts that I could believe in her as both my wife and as a person. Since the affair though, I feel like my trust was betrayed. I feel like the person I have become is a waste of space because I could so easily trust after years of constant problems. She tells me that she finally understands how I feel. 

After she gets home at night I'm already in bed. She wakes me up and tries to play with me. She's hoping I'm in the mood for sex, and without meaning to I started laughing. I don't know why I did it, but I did. The idea of having sex with her is repulsive to me now. I have always enjoyed sex, but it was so different when it was with someone I felt like I knew completely. She isn't the same person I met 4 years ago. Although I guess she really is, it's just now I'm seeing who she really is. After I laughed she got out of bed and ended up sleeping on the couch. It sounds horrible, but with her not in the bed with me I actually got some decent sleep for once. I only woke up three or fours times instead of my usual once an hour routine. 

I'm working all morning, and she'll be gone by the time I get home. She's visiting her mom today, and I feel a sense of relief. I know when I get home I'll be able to relax and not worry about her hounding me for something or trying to tell me I'm not working hard enough on our marriage. It's a sick satisfaction and part of me feels horrible for it. This isn't what marriage is supposed to be. I have to make my decision, and I have to put myself first for the first time. I just hope I have the strength.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I am no psychiatrist, but after reading your last post, I suspect that you have low self-esteem and codependency issue. And, your WW may have some narcissistic tendency. You may want to seek IC to address the issue. 

Your codependency drives you to live your life for the sake of others around you instead of for yourself. You always find excuse to sacrifice yourself and your needs to the ridiculous length. With a right partner, you can still manage to have a decent relationship, but unfortunately such personalities tend to get drawn to narcissistic personalities as they match each other's needs. Some narcissists may still maintain some degree of respect and boundary in treating the codependnet, but in your WW's case, she tends to cross the boundary to be disrespectful and abusive and often manipulative. 

I think you should get out of that relationship and seek help from a good IC to fix yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

T/J: Lord Mayhem, I am going to kill you!

I thought I somehow screwed up my laptop and got a bug stuck underneath the screen! Here I am pushing and pushing on my screen, trying to kill the bug...and then I realize I just got punked...

Thank goodness I was alone so no one else saw my stupidity!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

InSecure, your wife needs psychological help. You need to be alone, ON YOUR OWN, so you can learn to like yourself and KNOW yourself, so that when a women tries to coerce you, you have the strength to know right from wrong. 

It's possible you can do it in the same house, but I'm doubtful. I think that, if you stay, she will never get psychological help. And she needs it. And you will never be able to tell what YOU want/need apart from what anyone else (female) wants from you.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

I've been on the fence with typing an additional reply to this thread. I want to badly because this is my one true "vent." I have no one else to talk to. I have a counseling appointment set for tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes I guess.

I'm still not sleeping. My wife however sleeps like a bady. When she touches me in bed at night I physically move away from her. It's like I'm repulsed by the slightest touch. The problem is I know I screwed up. She and I had a long wild night of fun in the bedroom the other day. At no point was it emotional for me. I was literally just in the mood and wanted a release. Our two hour "love" session ended with her crying. "I thought I would lose you completely until tonight. Now I know we'll make it through this." Well ****. I have no clue how to proceed now. I know I shouldn't have done it, but we hadn't had sex in almost a month. 

Unfortunately she is still in full wedding plan mode. She talks about it everyday, even though I've told her I don't care and she can do whatever she wants. I feel so indifferent to all of it. It's like I'm a zombie in my own home. The only satisfaction I get is when I can be left alone for a while to read. My wife wants to talk all the time, and she wants to know what I'm thinking. I tell her as much as I can, but it feels like I'm telling a stranger. I don't think she understands what I'm feeling at all. No, I know she doesn't understand.

I'm still trying to figure out whether I can move past this or not. When I look at her I don't see my wife anymore. I see someone I share a house with. I don't feel the same way anymore. I don't hold her like I used to because I just don't care. I still do the little things around the home, but mainly because it's so ingrained in my mind. Writing all that out makes me think I truly do know what I want to do. 

Why is this so hard? Everyday when I get out of bed I feel like someone is punching me in the gut and leaving their fist there. It's like I've eaten a rock and it won't go away. I hate this feeling. I just want to be happy again.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Seems to me that you have started to check out of the marriage.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

My wife and I talked about how much it hurt me to read her text messages between her and the OM last night. I told her that the things she was saying to him were the stuff we used to say to each other. Flirty things, sexual things, and all that. I told her that I had never done that with anyone before her and that I felt like it was something special we had together. Our little way of flirting when we don't have time to talk on the phone while at work or whatnot. I told her I don't think I'll ever be able to do that again with her because now I know how little it meant to her.

I also told her I had to be honest about something, and I told her that I felt absolutely no emotion while we were having sex the other day. She asked if it was like I was having sex with a stranger, and I told her it was. She didn't cry, but she just looked at me. I asked what she was thinking and she told me that she felt cheap and that she felt like a wh0re. I told her that I don't know what we can do to make everything right, but I have to be completely honest with her. We went to bed shortly afterwards and didn't speak the rest of the night.

This morning she leaves for work really early and sends me a text message reminding me to drop off some wedding invitations. I am absolutely dumbfounded as to how she honestly thinks I'm going to do anything with the wedding. I don't know if she is in denial, but this Sunday I'm going to sit her down and tell her that I honestly don't love her the same way anymore and I don't think I ever will be able to again.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It is good that you are being honest with her and yourself. She has nobody to blame but herself. Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you told her the wedding is off, at least postponed?


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

I've told her several times and yet she still seems to be under the impression that we should still go all for it. I honestly think it's because she doesn't want to have to tell her friends and family why we aren't doing the wedding anymore.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Put in writing for her , let her know if she continues with the plans she is placing you in a position where you will have to reveal her adultery to all the guests, that the wedding and the exposure is not what is required at this point . State that the occasion is to be postponed until your marriage is in a better place . I suspect you are not being firm enough about this decision or she is using this as a desperate attempt to give a false message of union and happiness.

Writing it down leaves no room for mistranslation .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

InsecureSecurity said:


> *I've told her* several times and yet *she still seems to be* under the impression that we should still go all for it. I honestly think it's because she doesn't want to have to tell her friends and family why we aren't doing the wedding anymore.


 Then you did a really crappy job of telling her, or you didn't really 'tell' her at all. If you don't want to get married, just stop playing her games. You are being harmful by not manning up - to her, yourself, and everyone else involved.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Put in writing for her , let her know if she continues with the plans she is placing you in a position where you will have to reveal her adultery to all the guests, that the wedding and the exposure is not what is required at this point . State that the occasion is to be postponed until your marriage is in a better place . I suspect you are not being firm enough about this decision or she is using this as a desperate attempt to give a false message of union and happiness.
> 
> Writing it down leaves no room for mistranslation .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Agreed.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Hey I have an idea. Tell her you will renew your vows right after she signs a POSTNUP! She will sign it to prove to you she is serious by never ever asking you for any money if you D!!!


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