# How diffuse hostile situations?



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey everyone,

As many of you know, my marriage has been "on the rocks" lately. I've been to see an MC (alone) and at this point we're both uncertain about how this marriage will turn out.

However, I'm really hoping to get some advice on how to "keep the peace" in our house for the meantime.

Lately, my wife has been getting really annoyed about all kinds of little things. I'm not sure how to handle and ideally diffuse these situations

Here are a few examples. 

We made Tacos for dinner Tues evening. My wife likes the soft burrito style tacos, but we didn't have any of those, just the hard taco shells. I offered to go buy some soft burritos, but my wife dismissed my offer. A few min later, she asks... "Did you buy more Hard tacos when you went to the store yesterday?" with an accusatory undertone (IMHO) which said "Why do you keep buying those Taco shells you know I don't like" I responded with, "No, I didn't buy those hard taco shells, but I did buy some frozen "Ole Jose Taquitos". She snapped back at me and felt I was yelling at her and giving her attitude. If I did, I didn't intend to respond this way. 

She then commented how I need to stop buying processed foods referring to the Jose Ole and some Boneless skinless chicken breasts, which she considers "processed". I responded saying that I just wanted to try these taquitos since they were on sale, but we both buy processed foods (since she loves to buy Hotdogs and Hawaiian sweet rolls from Costco). But I do agree we shouldn't buy too many processed foods--as I'm trying to eat healthier and lose weight.

I don't remember her exact response, but she considered me being Defensive, uncooperative and argumentative, etc and stopped talking to me for a few min.

After she finished eating asked me to wash dishes, then went upstairs for while. After 20-30min, I had finished and went upstairs to casually ask what she was doing (I heard a lot of running around/general business so I was just curious). She seemed a bit annoyed, and told me she had just taken a shower.

Later in the evening, as I was approaching our downstairs restroom, she rushed in before me and sat down. I asked "What are you doing" (so I would know if she needed some time and I could just go upstairs and use our other restroom). She got really annoyed and said "I'm just going pee--GOSH, why do you keep asking what I'm doing?" and proceeded to say "What are you doing" in a mockery of my voice. Later I passed her as she was carrying come clothes to put away and she remarked "I'm just putting these clothes away, in case you want to know what I'm doing"


Second incident: Yesterday, she grilled some steak in late afternoon. I wasn't able to eat with her, since I had some errands to run. When I came home, she had finished eating and was drinking and talking to her Mom on her ipad. with leftover steak and rice sitting on the table. I told her I was going out to workout/jog before eating. I ran for 2 miles, came back and noticed she was upstairs. Since I had just worked out, I was pretty hungry. I ate the remaining steak and Rice (about 1 medium and one small steak fillet). 

As I was washing the dishes, she called from upstairs and asked if I had left any steak for her lunch tomorrow. I told her I had and immediately realized she probably wanted me to save some for her lunch. I apologized for eating the steak and rice. At first, she didn't seem to be too bothered, but after a few minutes she came downstairs, started acting more annoyed and told me I was "selfish" and as usual, it was "All about me" and I wasn't thinking of her.

I admitted that I probably should have had more forethought, but I was hungry after working out. I told her she could have told me to save one and/or put one in her lunch container, but she tells me I should have known better. I apologized again and she asked me to make some rice. 

Within the next 10-15 min, she started going on a tirade about how I didn't load the dishwasher correctly (which we don't use for washing dishes, it's just a drying rack), didn't put X things away, made her go late to go to bed because I ate her lunch.... and finally after I turned down the burner that was cooking her bratwurst (thought she asked me to turn it down, but apparently she was asking for me NOT to turn it down).

Eventually, she told me to just go upstairs and leave her to finish cooking her lunch. 

Lately, she seems to have overall annoyed attitude about a lot of things... I could list plenty more.

Perhaps I'm being too much of a "NIce Guy" and yes I have bought and read "NMMNG" and read up to the chapter about reclaiming your personal power. Having started any breaking free exercises though.

Any advice on how to handle these situations?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Another good book to read regarding defusing touchy situations is called Verbal Judo.

We often teach football referees to learn how to handle difficult coaches and players by what is in that book. It's a great read and very common sense!*


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

IF she wanted some set aside for lunch she should have cut a piece off and put it in a container.

What this sounds like is a woman who has made up her mind that she is done. She is pissed at herself for being in this situation, she's pissed at you for breathing. She is going through the motions so she can leave with a clear conscience. IMO.

To answer your question, though, it seems you both are really on the defensive. Someone has to lay down the weapon first. If you are willing, it would have been a good time to say "I'm sorry - I was so hungry after running and I didn't even think about your lunch; I would have thought you had already set that aside since you already ate. But if you'd like me to make you a sandwich (or whatever) for lunch, I'd be happy to." OR could you have said "Hey, what about I take you to lunch tomorrow?"

I'm not suggesting you always bow down, your example just seems to involve a lot of back-and-forth and if that's the ongoing scenario, someone has to stop vollying.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> IF she wanted some set aside for lunch she should have cut a piece off and put it in a container.
> *
> What this sounds like is a woman who has made up her mind that she is done. She is pissed at herself for being in this situation, she's pissed at you for breathing. She is going through the motions so she can leave with a clear conscience. IMO.*


:iagree: Yes, this.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

No advice. Sorry, but unless you have deliberately been abusive to her for a long time or something that is equivalent, she sounds like a not nice person, at all. I wouldn't be able to stay in the house with that shrew like interaction. 

On second thought, my advice would be either to have a talk w her somehow, or begin to let her know that kind of treatment is unacceptable, do not cater to it, and remove yourself...


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

It takes 2 people to argue. NEVER take the bait. 

making assumptions about intent will not help you...i.e..

"A few min later, she asks... "Did you buy more Hard tacos when you went to the store yesterday?" with an accusatory undertone (IMHO) which said "Why do you keep buying those Taco shells you know I don't like"

She asked a question...to which the answer was "No". I required no further comment. You need to have an even tone...no snapping back...no sarcasm...Just like talking to an equal at work. It is hard for people to be "difficult" with someone that is in a good mood with a smile on their face (I learned this one from my wife -she deals with some of our "difficult" customers). 

"As I was washing the dishes, she called from upstairs and asked if I had left any steak for her lunch tomorrow. I told her I had and immediately realized she probably wanted me to save some for her lunch. I apologized for eating the steak and rice. At first, she didn't seem to be too bothered, but after a few minutes she came downstairs, started acting more annoyed and told me I was "selfish" and as usual, it was "All about me" and I wasn't thinking of her."

She asked a question...only answer the question put to you. She asked if there was any steak left for her lunch....the proper response would have been. "No". When she made comments about you being "Selfish", etc... the proper response should always be one of two things

1. No response at all. Her statement was not a question -it was bait. Don't take it. or if you MUST say something...consider #2...
2. "That must be frustrating for you".....Then nothing else.....You acknowledged her statement without agreement or disagreement. 

Any attempt to engage or otherwise "poke the bear" is not in your best interest. So don't do it. Change you method of interaction. Keep it friendly -after a while she will mirror you -even if she doesn't want to. It's a human thing. 

Good Luck


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> To answer your question, though, it seems you both are really on the defensive. Someone has to lay down the weapon first. If you are willing, it would have been a good time to say "I'm sorry - I was so hungry after running and I didn't even think about your lunch; I would have thought you had already set that aside since you already ate. But if you'd like me to make you a sandwich (or whatever) for lunch, I'd be happy to." OR could you have said "Hey, what about I take you to lunch tomorrow?"


Thanks Emojiwoman, I did say that almost verbatim. I apologized for eating her lunch, mentioned she could have told me she wanted it, or set it aside I told her I could make her a new lunch and I might have mentioned I was considering saving one, but because I was so hungry, I decided to eat it. If I had said I didn't think of her lunch, she would have said "That because you always think of yourself first, it's all about you" etc. She had HOURS to put her lunch in a container (she probably finished eating around 6pm, I started eating at 9pm.)

I swear she asked me "Did you turn the burner down on my brat?". I thought she wanted me to do turn it down, so I did. She came over and asked "WHY DID you turn the burner down, I told you NOT to." and then told me to just go upstairs and leave her alone. 


Anyways, I'll probably check out that Verbal Judo book too. I'm sure I could learn a lot for future interactions with just about anyone. 

I will admit that we still have normal peaceful times where we do stuff together and everything seems great--she'll be her normal, cheerful, vibrant self and we get along great for a few days and I feel there's hope for our relationship---but then it just seems like she gets upset about the smallest things way too easily. (ie. As for loading the dishwasher, she wants each piece of silverware in a separate section of the silverware holder inside dishwasher, and nothing but glasses/cups on the top shelf. This might make sense if we actually used the dishwasher, but we simply put stuff in there to dry, then put it away). Every time I don't load it this way, she tells says "You never listen to me!"

Again, I'm trying not to be annoyed, upset when I respond, but whatever I say, she takes it as me having a pissed off, bad attitude and it escalates the situation.

Another thing she's been ragging me about is our budget. I've been trying to be more conservative when we spend money eating out in order to pay off my student loans (also, I've been selling stuff). One week we ate out twice in a row (didn't spend a ton, but I knew we would still be eating out during the week). Third day, she comes home and says she wants to order Chinese food. I suggest we eat inside since we ate out the past two days. She sees this as me being cheap and says "Fine, I'll just eat this Pancit noodle bowl, since you're so cheap". I got a bit defensive and said "Okay if you want to eat out, we can get Chinese food, I just wanted to eat something healthier here at home". Ever since then, if she mentions buying something, she'll often follow it up with "Oh wait, I forgot--you don't want to spend money". She also brought it up last night when cooking her dinner, saying she can't buy her lunch since I don't want her to eat out....


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You need to call this shrew out for being an jerk.

Sorry, all this dancing around about slicing off steak portions and bathrooms, and such is just stupid.

She is insufferable.

Tell her so and why.

if it sets her off? So what!

She already is set off by your mere breathing on the planet.

Get the whole hostility out in the open and find out how to fix it. if it ain't fixable?

Get away from her permanently.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

intheory said:


> Juke Box,
> 
> We've only got your side of the tale; but wow, your wife sounds rancid.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice again! I want to correct a few things here. 

1. She didn't order me to wash the dishes. She just said "Are you okay washing the dishes when your done?" Since she usually cooks dinner, I don't mind washing the dishes, so I agree to it. Sometimes I cook and do the dishes, and sometimes she does them (but pretty rarely, as they seem make the skin on her fingers dry and split). She often complains about how well I wash the dishes (which, I'll be honest, I'm not the best dishwasher--sometimes I leave a spot or two, sometimes there's a tiny sud of dish soap, which she overreacts to--tells me it will poison us. Okay, sure...I can wash the dishes better. 

2. She actually started cooking the bratwurst, after I put some rice in the rice-cooker. I offered to help--but apparently wasn't meeting her expectations (won't go into too much detail--it's just kinda exhausting)

3. The dishwasher thing is ridiculous. Again, if it were actually being used to WASH the dishes, I would understand--but we only dry them. If she does this again, I'm going to put my foot down and say ONE of 2 things are going to happen. Either she loads it her way, or I load it my way and proceed to put them away at my next convenience. I really can't stand organizing all the spoons, forks, knives, into different compartments to dry. As I put them away in the drawer? Sure! But that's easy-peezy FOR me. For her, I guess it's a pain to put them away unless been pre-organized.

4. As far as cutting me off and "asking" to put the towels away, I don't think she realized I was headed to the restroom (maybe she did?) Don't really care..like I said, there is another upstairs. She didn't ASK about putting towels away, but made a sarcastic remark stating that she was--because I'm such a pain asking her what she's up to 2x in the same day..

Now, if you think these things are bad...don't even get me started on...Well, I will get started..

She'll ask me to do some ridiculous tasks that would be way easier for her to do. 

1. One time, I was upstairs doing something on my computer. She calls me to help her with something. I heard her calling and ask what she needs help with. She keeps calling me and doesn't tell me what she wants (not sure if she heard me ask what she needed). So I go downstairs. She asks me to get her a drink from the kitchen. The kitchen was like 30 feet away from where she was, but she had to call me from all the way upstairs, pass her on the couch, get the drink and bring it back to her. (I didn't think this was fair, but since I had already come downstairs, and I really didn't know how to react/what to say, I got her the damn drink. The only thing I can think of to defend her is that the drink may have been out of her reach or maybe she was resting after doing laundry. Still seems pretty ridiculous to me. 


2. The next time she was sitting on the front porch, she was a few feet away from the door which was open. She asked me to get up from the dining room table, walk across the room and close the front door for her. I actually called her out on this and told her she shouldn't have too much difficulty closing it herself since she was sitting mere inches from the door. 

(The 2 comments above, especially the first was awhile ago)

3. Tonight she asks me to get her fresh water for her nightstand upstairs. She was upstairs already and I was at the bottom of the stairs. I asked her to throw me the water bottle so I could fill it for her. She says "Just come up and get it, are you that lazy?" I think to myself..."you're calling me lazy?" Anyways, I go upstairs and she says I should change out of my work clothes while I'm up there. Sounds like a great idea, but while I'm trying to find night-time clothes to change into--she keeps reminding me to get her water "I'm thinking...let me at least change my clothes while I'm up here, since you asked me to do that"

Other than that, however, she was pretty nice today. She did ask me to go get her a 6 pack of Smirnoff from Speedway, which was a block away. I was MORE than happy to take a walk there since I want to get as much exercise and fresh air as possible and it was beautiful outside. She told me about some embarrassing/funny stuff that happened at her work and was overall very friendly and laid-back. 

In general, though... it seems like she feels it's perfectly fine to ask me to go out of my way to do something for her, and while she voluntarily does do a lot of stuff for me (ie. Cooking for me, packs my lunch, does most of the laundry), it seems like I'm not allowed to ASK her to do something for me (or she'll respond, "I can't believe you're going to ask your wife to do that" or if I refuse or resist doing something she asks, she'll say "You can't even do this for your wife?"

This probably does NOT happen 100% of the time, but it seems like a One way street (IMHO) more often than not.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

MarriedDude said:


> It takes 2 people to argue. NEVER take the bait.
> 
> making assumptions about intent will not help you...i.e..
> 
> ...


PS. I love this advice, MarriedGuy. I'll definitely try this next time. Though, I don't think I said much in response to her calling me selfish.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How do you normally respond to people who aren't very respectful to you? 

Sometimes diffusing is the wrong way to go.

You have a wife who is clearly being snippy, rude, begging for a fight. So give her one. Don't be passive aggressive and avoid a direct confrontation while "pretending" to forget to buy her favs at the grocery store. 

"Just come up here and get it! Are you that lazy?" 

Oh come on that was a high lob you could have spiked right back down and you passed. 

When you do things like avoiding confrontations you come off as a pushover. You have to learn when to back off and when to charge forward.

Have you ever gotten in her face and to,d her to stop nit picking you?

Have you ever gotten into an argument with raised voices and slammed doors, made up then had make up sex? See, you can't have make up sex with out the knock down fight before hand. 

Your wife is looking for a fight and each time you back away and diffuse, she loses respect for you. You're too easy to manipulate. Too easy to pick on. Confrontations aren't always a bad thing.

While I like Married Dude's responses, and they probably are your best bet considering the fragile state of your marriage, I think sometimes confronting the unacceptable head on is eye opening to a spouse who has lost respect.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

You are never gonna be right or win anything with her she is sh*t testing you hard and maybe trying to make you a bad guy for cover of devorce or affair or both

My wife did any of that and she would be out the door on a L.P.C (leather personal carrier) I am not a dog that sh*t on the carpet and I will not be treated as one nor would I treat my wife as one especially with that snide condescending tude 

Almost all of your threads 

Are about how you can do better (not screw up) and change to make your wife happy I don't know that you packen 12 and sculpted by Michaelangelo with Bill Gates bank account and Don Juan moves could make her happy sadly I dont think she loves you 

work on you for you not her, she wont go to mc with you that tells you all you need to know in her eyes your at fault and you think so too by your posts 

Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock "I like the Whopper so f the big Mac" hit it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=phOW-CZJWT0


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Wow. She enjoys seeing how far she can push you. Sounds like a sadistic game.

Next time she calls for you to come, ask her what does she need and if she doesn't answer tell her you won't come until she tells you what for. Then if it's for water, tell her she's closer and you aren't going to drop what you are doing. If it's something she honestly needs help with, then come promptly. You are teaching her how to treat you. If she says you are selfish, ask her "don't you think it's selfish to ask ME to stop what I'm doing and come from another part of the house to be your manservant for a glass of water?" 

I'd ask her questions about her behavior. The dishwasher - "why does this matter so much to you?" Why is a great way to suss out her REAL objection. She's likely to sputter and maybe come up with a lame "everyone knows plastic goes on top" and again, respond with a question "Yes, to wash, but drying doesn't matter, so why is this so important to you?" Eventually you'll find out her real objection or she'll shut down if she doesn't want you to know her real objection (i.e. if she feels inferior and feels the need to be superior by being more important personally, be right about some things, etc.)


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

My WW acted just like this when she was in her affair. I believe it was her way to detach and justify.
I am not saying your wife is in a affair but she certainly sounds done with the marriage.


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## OLDERMARRIEDCOUPLE (Mar 13, 2015)

Jukebox - Read your posts before.
Again I think there are problems on both sides, but at least it sounds like you are trying to do better.
One thing I will say is that you need to learn how to be assertive without being a push over. 
I would put up with her for about 5 minutes.
Her remark about what are you doing?
I would tell her....
Just sitting here thinking how wonderful life could be.
Her response would dictate where I went from there.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> How do you normally respond to people who aren't very respectful to you?
> 
> Sometimes diffusing is the wrong way to go.
> 
> ...


Hear hear! Excellent post.

JBH, was your wife the one who poo-pooed your 'snow cake' on her car for her bday? I still maintain that was one of the sweetest things I've ever heard of someone doing.

This will be harsh and it's not my intent to offend. Your wife sounds like a selfish, lazy, entitled shrew. You pepper your posts with positive things your wife does for you but it's not enough. I realize there are three sides to every story (yours, hers, and the truth). But the picture you've painted here shows you must fight back. Reclaim your dignity. Get your cajones out of your wife's purse. Quit being so passive. Stand up for yourself! Would you tolerate a stranger or a coworker talking to you like that? 

I'm sorry you're going through this, but YOU can change the dynamic here. You allow her to treat you this way. Stop it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

JukeboxHero said:


> 3. Tonight she asks me to get her fresh water for her nightstand upstairs. She was upstairs already and I was at the bottom of the stairs. *I asked her to throw me the water bottle so I could fill it for her. She says "Just come up and get it, are you that lazy?*" I think to myself..."you're calling me lazy?" Anyways, I go upstairs and she says I should change out of my work clothes while I'm up there. Sounds like a great idea, but while I'm trying to find night-time clothes to change into--she keeps reminding me to get her water "I'm thinking...let me at least change my clothes while I'm up here, since you asked me to do that"


Your response should have been:

"Youre calling me lazy? When you're the one who can't be bothered to get your own water?"

Get it yourself and while your at it, get a new attitude. You've been nitpicking me to death and I've had enough of it. So stop it.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

convert said:


> My WW acted just like this when she was in her affair. I believe it was her way to detach and justify.
> I am not saying your wife is in a affair but she certainly sounds done with the marriage.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

my XW did the same treatment you have described...right down to how i didnt load the dishwasher correctly either....

oh and yeah...she was deep in the middle of an affair.

later on down the road...i had a GF.....she bagan doing the same critical judgmental treatment...I broke up with her because of it...only to find out within a few weeks...she was screwing another guy...funny how predictable and history repeats.

start digging deep into what your wife is really up to. post in CWI.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> How do you normally respond to people who aren't very respectful to you?
> 
> Sometimes diffusing is the wrong way to go.
> 
> ...


I do agree with you, in principle, on the bolded items above -But IMO, from what I have read -the OP is not nearly ready for the verbal Kung Fo she is going to throw at him. The confrontation will require him to bring his A-Game...He doesn't sound ready. 

Getting to the point of diffusing her ability to guide/direct any discussion will, over time, build his confidence, while "teaching" her that her current methods are unproductive (doesn't get her what she wants).

With the Bonus...She will wonder WTF is going on and who is this guy that isn't crumbling under the weight of my BS? 

Him not taking the bait does mean that she is dominant in the verbal fisticuffs, quite the opposite, he will be the one in control. 

First rule of Verbal Fight Club =The first one to get mad..Lost


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> 1. One time, I was upstairs doing something on my computer. She calls me to help her with something. I heard her calling and ask what she needs help with. She keeps calling me and doesn't tell me what she wants (not sure if she heard me ask what she needed). So I go downstairs. She asks me to get her a drink from the kitchen. The kitchen was like 30 feet away from where she was, but she had to call me from all the way upstairs, pass her on the couch, get the drink and bring it back to her. (I didn't think this was fair, but since I had already come downstairs, and I really didn't know how to react/what to say, I got her the damn drink. The only thing I can think of to defend her is that the drink may have been out of her reach or maybe she was resting after doing laundry. Still seems pretty ridiculous to me.
> 
> 
> 2. The next time she was sitting on the front porch, she was a few feet away from the door which was open. She asked me to get up from the dining room table, walk across the room and close the front door for her. I actually called her out on this and told her she shouldn't have too much difficulty closing it herself since she was sitting mere inches from the door.
> ...


You know WHY she does this? Because YOU keep letting her. WHY??? When she snapped at you to come get the water bottle, why the hell didnt you go sit back down?? And when she called you down to get her a drink? WHY didnt you just go back upstairs?? That was just total bullsh!t. No need to engage in confrontation, just go back to what you were doing. You are the only one who can stop this crap, YOU are the one allowing her to act like an entitled, spoiled little princess b!tch. 

I am FLOORED by the number of men who come here to TAM that allow their women to treat them like this. It blows my mind, it really does.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> You know WHY she does this? Because YOU keep letting her. WHY??? When she snapped at you to come get the water bottle, why the hell didnt you go sit back down?? And when she called you down to get her a drink? WHY didnt you just go back upstairs?? That was just total bullsh!t. No need to engage in confrontation, just go back to what you were doing. You are the only one who can stop this crap, YOU are the one allowing her to act like an entitled, spoiled little princess b!tch.
> 
> *I am FLOORED by the number of men who come here to TAM that allow their women to treat them like this. It blows my mind, it really does.*



I agree. I often wonder how many of these men were raised by single mothers or had otherwise disengaged fathers. There must be something to it. 

I had the opposite -raised by a (often) single father...Grew up on Construction Sites / Hunt Camps / Fishing Trips...Being around nothing but Men helped me learn -early and fast -how to deal with someone screwing with you. I am grateful for that.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> How do you normally respond to people who aren't very respectful to you?
> 
> Sometimes diffusing is the wrong way to go.
> 
> ...



You know what, you're right. After reading this post, I realized I've never really been in a fight like that with her. I always thought yelling and slamming doors would make things escalate to something terrible, or should we would get uberly pissed because I was yelling at her. She considers me to be yelling, if I raise my voice even a little, like when we're in bed at night, having a conversation...if I get a lil' excited about something I accomplished or some plans I have for whatever, she'll tell me to stop yelling/talking so loud or I'll wake the neighbors. I know I can have a loud voice sometimes, but it's not I'm still talking at a decent volume. I always thought it was better to keep your cool and not lose your temper.

There have been times when she's doing something that really annoys me and I'll tell her to stop. I'll walk away or tell her firmly in the most serious voice to stop doing whatever it is. She'll start laughing and making cute faces (sometimes followed by her impression of my voice) and somehow, because I find her "happy mode" irresistible, I'll crack a smile and start laughing too, despite doing my best to keep a serious face. Of course, this was mostly back when Our marriage was in better standing, and since she was being charming and flirty..somehow it didn't seem to be a big deal.

Obviously, she doesn't respect me and doesn't seem to feel like I could have any hurt or sad emotions. I'll give you another example. One evening, post Valentines Day/B-day massacres, she came home and asked me how I would react if she cheated on me.

I first responded by asking "Why would you ask a question like that?" She kept insisting on asking how I would feel, and told her "I would probably feel traumatized" She laughed and said "Whatever, you don't get traumatized". Apparently, she thinks I have a lot of emotional fortitude. 

PS. Interesting side note, I've NEVER been in a physical fight/confrontation in my life. Aside from a friendly, goofing around fight with a friend once.




MarriedDude said:


> I do agree with you, in principle, on the bolded items above -But IMO, from what I have read -the OP is not nearly ready for the verbal Kung Fo she is going to throw at him. The confrontation will require him to bring his A-Game...He doesn't sound ready.
> 
> Getting to the point of diffusing her ability to guide/direct any discussion will, over time, build his confidence, while "teaching" her that her current methods are unproductive (doesn't get her what she wants).
> 
> ...


This does sound like a good idea. I think I will get that Verbal Fight club book and finish reading NMMNG. When I first started reading the book, I wasn't sure if ALL the aspects fit me (I'm still not sure about the "father" situation, and always putting other people's needs first...I kinda felt one of the reasons I'm in the situation I'm in is because she felt I ALWAYS put my needs first), but I can see I'm definitely too much of a pushover and I just need to learn how to be assertive, but I don't want to take it too far and be an abusive jerk or blow my top.

Here's an example of a conversation I had today. I'm planning on going to my brother's house this weekend for a nice, literal "GETAWAY" and having some fun outdoors doing stuff like camping, fishing, etc. 

I mentioned to my wife that I might go pick up my kayak at my parent's house...

She responded by saying..
"Can't you just use you're brother's kayak?"
"No, because if I do that, what will he use?"
"Oh, so you're going Kayaking together?"
"Yes, hence why I'm bringing my Kayak"...IMHO, I said this in the calmest, least condescending voice possible, but she seemed to take it as if I was treating her like an idiot. She responded "Why do you have that attitude?!--Sorry, I guess I'm stupid cuz I don't know what you're doing with your brother". I told her I didn't have any attitude, but you know...it's like saying "I"m not being defensive" or "I'm not arguing" and it just make you sound more defensive/argumentative.

I do have some more things to add, but I'm a bit tired and need to finish packing. I do want to say thanks to everyone...I wish my wife could present her side, because I hate to make her sound like a shrew. Maybe she is evolved into one, but I don't feel like this the woman I married, though she has always had a "Terrible OCD" (her words, not mine) and been pretty nitpicky about stuff.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> You know what, you're right. After reading this post, I realized I've never really been in a fight like that with her. I always thought yelling and slamming doors would make things escalate to something terrible, or should we would get uberly pissed because I was yelling at her. She considers me to be yelling, if I raise my voice even a little, like when we're in bed at night, having a conversation...if I get a lil' excited about something I accomplished or some plans I have for whatever, she'll tell me to stop yelling/talking so loud or I'll wake the neighbors. I know I can have a loud voice sometimes, but it's not I'm still talking at a decent volume. I always thought it was better to keep your cool and not lose your temper.
> 
> There have been times when she's doing something that really annoys me and I'll tell her to stop. I'll walk away or tell her firmly in the most serious voice to stop doing whatever it is. She'll start laughing and making cute faces (sometimes followed by her impression of my voice) and somehow, because I find her "happy mode" irresistible, I'll crack a smile and start laughing too, despite doing my best to keep a serious face. Of course, this was mostly back when Our marriage was in better standing, and since she was being charming and flirty..somehow it didn't seem to be a big deal.
> 
> ...


well...the response you gave wasn't really one that would de-escalate...but I get it...she threw you a softball and you wanted to swing...

The important part though...you did notice she said "sorry" and referred to herself as "stupid"...right?? Does she apologize much (even in a pseudo left-handed way)..like this? How often does she refer to herself in this way?

Have fun on your trip...can't beat fishing


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## mam665 (Oct 20, 2012)

You need to brush up on your mind reading skills. Just kidding of course. I'm sorry, I don't really have any advice but you do have my sympathy. Your story reminds me of my mother.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> How do you normally respond to people who aren't very respectful to you?
> 
> Sometimes diffusing is the wrong way to go.
> 
> ...



this is the approach that makes most sense to me. no need to raise your voice, but no passive statements, at all. 

no sarcasm either, because that's one of the things you should tell her point blank you want her to "knock it off." you should also tell her that if she'd like you to do the dishes and other hosehold tasks you will. but you'll decide how to do each one, whether thats the way she does it or not. then tell her bluntly what other things she is doing that you are sick and tired of and won't tolerate any longer.

give her a chance to respond. depending on how she responds you should take some time to think on it, and then approach her again.. next day maybe. if she admits no fault whatsoever or remorse or humility or anything of the kind, I see nothing wrong with asking her if she still wants the marriage. then note what she says and how she says it, how she takes it. end the conversation, go away again and process her response.

make up your mind that if you have to, you'll do just fine without her. don't fear losing her; you don't need to.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

It's extreme emotional immaturity. It's impossible to deal with without expert techniques. You say up, she says down and if you say anything further her feelings are hurt, the claws come out...

I came from a very high conflict family and learned to verbally spar to protect myself. I'm the only one of my siblings who seemed to realize this was not a healthy way to go through life. We push away everyone and the only people left are those we don't especially respect. Until we learn a better way to deal with conflict.

This is your wife's problem and while you may be a Nice Guy who avoids conflict...the essential problem is your wife's conflict patterns.

If you want to save your marriage (and frankly I'm not sure why) I think you should follow MarriedDude's advice first. Then whe you've cut your teeth and have a full set, come see me for knock down drag out show stoppers!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> this is the approach that makes most sense to me. no need to raise your voice, but no passive statements, at all.
> 
> no sarcasm either, because that's one of the things you should tell her point blank you want her to "knock it off." *you should also tell her that if she'd like you to do the dishes and other hosehold tasks you will. but you'll decide how to do each one, whether thats the way she does it or not. *then tell her bluntly what other things she is doing that you are sick and tired of and won't tolerate any longer.
> 
> ...


There are some chores I am VERY particular about and loading the dishwasher the RIGHT way is one of them. Making the bed the right way is another. I don't ever expect my H to make the bed because I know I'm a little crazy about how it's to be done. But loading the dishwasher the right way, so everything gets CLEAN...the wife needs to learn to speak respectfully in order to gain his cooperation and the OP needs to learn to call her on her sarcastic and disrespectful speech.

"Babe, I'll be more than happy to help you out but not when you talk to me that way. So make a decision, you want my help?"


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## Alrighty then (Apr 29, 2015)

Learn how to slap down **** tests, be considerate without discussing your thoughtful gestures so it doesn't look like you are looking for points, stop asking what she is doing and stop caring what she is doing, you do you in a positive way and disengage when she is asking for a fight. 

Go do something productive until she grows up. NEVER take bait for a chastising. DO NOT apologize wen you were not in the wrong. You are inviting **** tests one after another. Develop the tools to deflect them and stay positive. Her problem is not your problem unless you allowit to be. STOP apologizing when doing something rather reasonable. She is trying to blame you for her misery. It is her responsibility to find her happiness. If she looks your gift horse in the mouth then stop offering her gift horses. It's thankless. Just be a great, positive person without being azz kissy that ignores the invitation to roll in the mud with her. I ignore b.s., offer good will gestures without looking for a thank you or points and go on about my business when my wife is being ignorant and angry.

She came around because she isn't horrible and it was the right thing to do. She was angry and immature and I refused to reward it with further azz kissy behavior.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

*Re: How do you diffuse hostile situations?*



3Xnocharm said:


> You know WHY she does this? Because YOU keep letting her. WHY??? When she snapped at you to come get the water bottle, why the hell didnt you go sit back down?? And when she called you down to get her a drink? WHY didnt you just go back upstairs?? That was just total bullsh!t. No need to engage in confrontation, just go back to what you were doing. You are the only one who can stop this crap, YOU are the one allowing her to act like an entitled, spoiled little princess b!tch.
> 
> I am FLOORED by the number of men who come here to TAM that allow their women to treat them like this. It blows my mind, it really does.


I don't want to give the wrong impression here. When she asked me to fetch things for her, she didn't really have a mean, or snappy attitude. For the most part, she asks nicely, although, if I don't respond immediately, she might start to get a mildly annoyed tone. I'm not perfect either, and I admit I can get distracted or forget things.

Also, at least I responded by asking her if she could "meet me halfway" when she told me to come up and fetch her water bottle. But you're probably right. I think the reason I'm letting her "treat" me this way is because I'm trying to be more responsible and helpful as a husband, perhaps to make up for past mistakes when I didn't help her as much as I should. I guess I'm not sure when I should resist or say NO. It's challenging because she seems to escalate into "ticked" off mode pretty easily. 
For instance--

Earlier this week, we went to a nearby Autozone to get a very specific brand of rubbing compound she wanted for her car (the one her dad uses, so obviously no other brand will do). They didn't have any in stock, but since they found one at another location in our area, they said they could ship it over and would call us when it came in. My wife accepted their offer and gave them MY phone number as a contact for when the product arrived. The next day I get a VM while I'm work notifying me the compound had arrived and they would keep it for 2 days. I thought to myself, I'll notify my wife and we'll pick it up when she gets home. 

However, due to other issues arising, I completely forgot. Last night when we were going out to eat (Friday) she remembers about her order and asked if they ever called me. I got pretty frustrated with myself and said "Awww. Dammit, I forgot to tell you--I meant to let you know so we could pick it up" We were both frustrated and she made comments about "See, you want to pay bills and such, but you can't even remember this simple thing. How can you expect more responsibility when you can't even remember one easy thing"

I was about to respond "Yeah, well, you could have--" then I stopped. She immediately assumed I was going to blame her and replied "OH, so you're going to blame me for you forgetting? Of course, it's all my fault"

I eventually did her that she COULD have given Autozone her phone #, but of course, that's "Blaming" her. 

Thankfully, I did go back to Autozone today and found they still had her compound. She said "thank you" when I gave it to her.


So, Idk...




intheory said:


> JukeBox,
> 
> My hands and nails dry out if I submerge them in soapy dishwashing water. That's why I bought and use RUBBER GLOVES. From $3 to $5 at the grocery store.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, we actually did buy those gloves, and she will use them should the need ever arise for her to do dishes.
So, I started reading some pages defining narcissism. She doesn't seem to fit a lot of the qualities, but there are some that apply. 
I.e. She likes to take pics of herself when she buys or tries on a new outfit, or gets dressed up real sexy. She normally looks really pretty w.o make-up, so doesn't usually wear it, but occasionally, if we go out for a special event, she'll put some on and take pics of herself (and me too, if we're going out together). I found this site which may explain some of the qualities she has...
What Are the Signs of a Narcissistic Wife? (with pictures)

For the most part, the stuff about criticism and wanting to be in control may apply, but NOT the stuff about seeking approval or needing validation/praise from other people---or tearing down others to boost her own self-worth would seem to apply less. 

Also, I did a test last night. I thought perhaps I might be exaggerating when I said she wouldn't do anything for me. We were about to go out last and she asked me to change my shoes. I had shoes on already, and since one of her rules is that you need to remove you before you walk on the carpet (most of the time), I asked if she could go upstairs and get them for me (since she was barefoot).

She looked at me, appalled and said "I can't believe you would ask me to do that! I'm not your maid, go get them yourself!!"

I responded with something like, "Fair enough" and thought to myself, "At least now I know what I can say if she asks me to do something ridiculous again"

Another thing that grinds my gears. She'll ask me to help her with something (i.e. Cut up some veggies for dinner--while she's cooking the meat), and then before I've completed that task, she'll ask me to do something else (like reach for something in a high cupboard), and then perhaps a 3rd task immediately after the second one. Then, while I'm the middle of the 3rd task...or maybe I completed the tasks, but got distracted by something...she say "Why didn't you finish task A, like I asked you--I guess I need to do it myself, again!" I usually try to rush back and finish said Task, so she doesn't get frustrated and I want to be doing my fair share. 

THIS hasn't happened in awhile, however this morning we were heading out to a Car wash and I was carrying shoes I wanted to return to DSW. She got the basket of car cleaning stuff and I was about to head out the door, she asked me "can you be a gentleman and help me carry this basket". I turned around, set the shoe box on the counter, and grabbed the basket (not really that heavy, but whatever..I want to be a 'Gentleman'). As we were about to leave, I told her I wanted to go back and get the shoes so we could return them, since the Carwash place was in the same vicinity as the shoe store. She said we could just do it later. When we get home (which is 2 hrs later--yes, she detailed her car with that rubbing compound, dried every drop of water, etc--took awhile), she noticed my new shoes, in a clean box on the counter. She commented about how it was kinda gross and asked me to take them upstairs. She wasn't particularly mean or nasty, but it's frustrating because I put them there to help her, wanted to go back and retrieve them later on, got turned down, and when we finally get home, she's making comments about it's "Gross" even though they're new/cleanish. 



Anon Pink said:


> There are some chores I am VERY particular about and loading the dishwasher the RIGHT way is one of them. Making the bed the right way is another. I don't ever expect my H to make the bed because I know I'm a little crazy about how it's to be done. But loading the dishwasher the right way, so everything gets CLEAN...the wife needs to learn to speak respectfully in order to gain his cooperation and the OP needs to learn to call her on her sarcastic and disrespectful speech.
> 
> "Babe, I'll be more than happy to help you out but not when you talk to me that way. So make a decision, you want my help?"



She is very particular about everything. We actually had an episode Monday where she told me that she KNOWS that I'm trying really hard to be responsible, but since she's "learned how to be independent" and got used to doing things her own way, she gets frustrated when I try to help. It's a whole 'nother story that I'll post later, but for certain things, she has a very specific way and when I try to take the initiative and start or do the whole project on my own (in this case, cooking dinner) it frustrates her even more. Ironically, she always used to complain how I take the initiative to start doing stuff around the house before she got home. I guess we both know why now.

Thankfully, there are still SAFE things that I can do, like Fold my Clothes, wash dishes, Vaccuum, as long as I'm thorough. Also, she does have valid complaints a lot of times, like if I miss spots on the dishes, etc.

So, to sum it up, she DOES work hard (usually she spends a whole day doing chores and laundry, she wants me to help and she usually asks nicely, at first at least... but then something will eventually cause her to become more frustrated. IMHO, there are just TOO many dang rules, conditions and ONE way streets. She also likes to she's not high maintenance...but I respectfully disagree.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Obviously, the way you have tried to diffuse these situations is not working. I've waited to respond, because I wanted to see if there was any discernible pattern to your posts.

Believe me, there is.

Your wife is a [email protected] She wants things done HER way or they are the WRONG way. You are in a no-win situation.

However, you came here for advice. May I suggest when you are given advice you take what you want and leave the rest. Why? Because when people come out and give you their honest opinions, you proceed to defend her.

On the other hand, you have a litany of complaints as to why you are not happy with the situation.

People with poorly-defined, or no boundaries, are in for quite a ride, as you have seen for yourself. Here's an old saying from Al-Anon that I learned to use in my own life: "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."

It's all about boundaries, my friend. You don't have them. Sorry for being blunt, but I don't parse words.

I realize you don't see this, but you are a bit passive-aggressive. Forgetting to pick up the rubbing compound she wanted and told the store to call YOUR phone? Please, just hear me out before you post to defend yourself. I'm sure you forgot. People get busy. People don't make reminder notes.

But the fact is, you were p.o.'d that she gave them your number for something she wanted. Just consider that.

This is a cyber forum. I don't know you from squat, nor do the other folks who respond. But keep in mind, we are reading what you post and giving you our take on it.

Sometimes you need to step back from a situation and look at it more objectively. I would advise you do so. 

What you have written sounds more like a war of the wills than a marriage. I could not be married to someone like your wife, which is why after my husband died I decided to remain happily single the rest of my life. And, with all the challenges I've faced, I actually enjoy my life.

I'm not advocating divorce or separation. But you need to get a backbone, quit tolerating her crap - regardless of her reasons for being so - and put an end to your misery.

Seriously.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Thank you, Prodigal.

I guess it's difficult because I don't like fights/escalation/yelling at each other. Also, it seems some people are suggesting phrases that might escalate things, while others are saying to stay calm. 

Regardless, I hope that the Verbal Judo book will help me..not just in this marriage but for life in general. I'm definitely going to order it tonight!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ok, so she isn't a narcissist... She is just a bossy, self centered b1tch. A ball buster, as Prodigal said. You may not like conflicts or arguments, but you've surrendered your balls and your pride and your self respect as a result of not standing up for yourself. Maybe being emasculated is okay with you, who knows. But you really need to stop defending her. She is not a nice person and doesn't give a crap about you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> I guess it's difficult because I don't like fights/escalation/yelling at each other.


So who said anything that suggested yelling, escalation, going berserk, or punching one another out?

Again, you are NOT understanding boundaries. If she escalates, you stand your ground: SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, MEAN WHAT YOU SAY, BUT DON'T SAY IT MEAN.

I feel for you, I really do. You have no idea how to impose boundaries. Just because you wife starts a war-of-the-words does not necessitate you join her in that. SHE OWNS THAT.

PLEASE LISTEN TO ME: YOU NEED TO OWN WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND LEAVE ALONE WHAT IS HERS.

Heck, my husband would go on rants and I would calmly walk away, get in the car, and spend the night in a motel. If he followed me into another room, I refused to engage him.

My response? "I refuse to engage in this." Nothing else was said.

My guess if you do that and calmly pick up a magazine, your wife will rip it out of your hands. You have a terribly controlling, immature, drama-junkie on your hands.

And you play into HER hands.

I don't have yelling, chaos, or mess in my life. I refuse to engage in it. And, believe me, I work in an office where most folks absolutely thrive on it and try to engage me.

I REFUSE to engage. You desperately need to disengage. Either that or remain miserable.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

*Re: How do you diffuse hostile situations?*



JukeboxHero said:


> Thankfully, there are still SAFE things that I can do, like Fold my Clothes, wash dishes, Vaccuum, as long as I'm thorough. Also, she does have valid complaints a lot of times, like if I miss spots on the dishes, etc.


Does this sound like something a husband in a loving, adult, and functional relationship would say? No. It sounds like something a child would say about his mother. 

Do you get a star on your chore chart when you do things correctly?

I hope you take what I've said in the spirit in which it's intended-not to insult you, but to wake you up so you see what I and the other posters see.

Despite your many attempts to mitigate her shrew-ish behavior, it _still_ looks bad from where I sit.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> I guess it's difficult because I don't like fights/escalation/yelling at each other.


I want to expand on my previous response Your wife WILL yell, curse, belittle you, and whatever else she has in her arsenal of [email protected], manipulative techniques.

Ever set boundaries for a young child and watched their response? You frequently have to endure tantrums; after all, little kids are very self-centric. They only understand their needs and their perspective.

That's your wife, isn't it? And you are scared sh!tless of her throwing a tantrum. If you change, she WILL throw a major tantrum.

Setting boundaries is always met by resistance when one spouse upsets the dynamic of the relationship. Are you willing to get what YOU deserve, or willing to let HER tell you what you deserve?

Consider it.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

I like the advice I'm getting here, especially from Prodigal. I'm going to dig deeper into your suggestions and how I can apply them to my situations. I just wanted to drop in and say I did order the Verbal Judo book off Ebay.

Also, I've been noticing that my wife seems to be pushing her traits onto me. As in, she'll say I'm "selfish", "have an attitude" or I'm "High Maintenance". IMHO, I'm not those..in most cases. Is there a name for some kinda personality disorder like this?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Also, I've been noticing that my wife seems to be pushing her traits onto me. As in, she'll say I'm "selfish", "have an attitude" or I'm "High Maintenance". IMHO, I'm not those..in most cases. Is there a name for some kinda personality disorder like this?


I don't know if it's a personality disorder per se, but I've heard this called "projection." Pretty amazing, isn't it? They'll turn the tables and blame you for the very thing they're doing.

Having been married to an alcoholic, I can attest that they are masters at the game. My guess is your wife is in denial, doesn't actually realize what she's doing, or if she realizes it to some degree, she projects onto you.

Thus, projection serves as a denial mechanism and a way to manipulate/guilt-trip the hapless victim. Makes you feel kinda crazy, doesn't it? You also start to wonder if anything you are accused of is actually true.

She controls you through her aggressive behavior and ups the ante if you don't show signs of folding.

Time to stand up to her. Let her scream, break things, go berserk. DO NOT REACT. If she starts hitting you, call 911 and get the police to your house. Domestic abuse is serious.

Will your wife get that bad? Maybe, maybe not. But I assure you she is going to get worse when you hold your boundaries.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> I don't know if it's a personality disorder per se, but I've heard this called "projection." Pretty amazing, isn't it? They'll turn the tables and blame you for the very thing they're doing.
> 
> Having been married to an alcoholic, I can attest that they are masters at the game. My guess is your wife is in denial, doesn't actually realize what she's doing, or if she realizes it to some degree, she projects onto you.
> 
> ...



Speaking of alchoholism, she's taking up a bit of drinking lately. I don't think it's excessive or anything, but it is adding to our monthly grocery bill. She mostly drinks Smirnoff and she bought a bottle of Disarrano so she could make her favorite drink, Amaretto sours. Also, whenever we go out, she'll typically order Bahama Mamas from Applebees.

I'm a bit concerned because it's becoming a daily habit. I don't think it's getting too out of control yet...but idk..


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

convert said:


> My WW acted just like this when she was in her affair. I believe it was her way to detach and justify.
> I am not saying your wife is in a affair but she certainly sounds done with the marriage.


This^ (and everyone else who agreed). Respectfully, your question is wrong. This is not about diffusing a hostile situation, but about dealing with the extreme disrespect your wife is showing you and your marriage.

Do you have any clue as to what's really crawled up her rear? Do you work? Does she? 

Unless there is a legitimate issue (even still, wow!), she is either done (as some have said) or has a mental illness. Either way, not much fun for you.

While you are in this situation, figuring out if you want to stay, I hope, I suggest you stop tolerating her abusive behaviour (yes, it is abusive--this comes in both gender flavours). When she gets on a rant, don't engage and give her an excuse to get even more angry, just detach and walk away or leave when she starts acting up. Right now you are actually reinforcing her poor behaviour by giving her attention when she is acting worse than a child would be reprimanded for.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Speaking of alchoholism, she's taking up a bit of drinking lately. I don't think it's excessive or anything, but it is adding to our monthly grocery bill.


How much is it adding to the grocery bill? Have you seen the receipts?



JukeboxHero said:


> I'm a bit concerned because it's becoming a daily habit. I don't think it's getting too out of control yet...but idk..


One ****tail in the evening is no big deal. I know a number of folks who come home, have a drink, then settle down in front of the tube or with a good book the rest of the evening.

But you are concerned; thus, it IS a problem ... for you. Let me give you some insider information on people who have problems with drinking: THEY HIDE IT. Sure, there is a bottle of vodka in the freezer or a six pack of beer in the fridge, or a couple bottles of wine on the kitchen counter.

But when someone starts having a problem, they hide it. I clearly recall cleaning house and finding bottles in the craziest places. Did I look? Initially, yes. Then I quit looking, and the bottles just turned up. 

Maybe your wife is not doing that at all. She could be coping with stress by self-medicating with a drink. 

Boundaries, my friend. No matter what, you need to set strong boundaries. If she goes berserk, that's her problem and hers to own.

Keep us posted on your situation. We care.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Does this sound like something a husband in a loving, adult, and functional relationship would say? No. It sounds like something a child would say about his mother.
> 
> Do you get a star on your chore chart when you do things correctly?
> 
> ...


Honestly, I would be happy if I got Gold stars or some form of appreciation. She does say "thank you" most of the time, but I would love it if she was more enthusiastic about it. If she said something like "Great Job, I'm proud of you" or "Well done!", I would appreciate it, as long as she wasn't saying it in a patronizing way. Even better some hugs, kisses of physical display of love.



Prodigal said:


> I don't know if it's a personality disorder per se, but I've heard this called "projection." Pretty amazing, isn't it? They'll turn the tables and blame you for the very thing they're doing.
> 
> Having been married to an alcoholic, I can attest that they are masters at the game. My guess is your wife is in denial, doesn't actually realize what she's doing, or if she realizes it to some degree, she projects onto you.
> 
> ...


Thankfully, she's not the violent type. She's more of a "silent-treatment", manipulative, grudge-holding, biting remark, guilt-tripping, quietly fuming type. I don't think I'd see her scream and go berserk. 

I'll give an example:
About Month ago, I was trying to plan a budget to help me pay off my student loans. I was checking our joint account & noticed she spent about double the amount that she normally does at one her favorite lunch spots. (It's like bar/deli place) She got a bit defensive and remarked about how she doesn't like to be questioned/criticized about how much she spends on food (this is True, it's always been a pet peeve of hers). I never told her there was anything wrong, but simply asking "I was just looking over our expenditures and I'm curious why you spent $15 @ X Deli?" For all I know, she could've been treating a friend or maybe it was a dinner or she bought a couple of drinks. I didn't really want to make her feel bad, just wanted to get a handle on how much we spent eating out. 

Ever since then, if I offer her spending cash, she'll say "No, don't worry about it, I'll find my money elsewhere, I don't want to be questioned about how I spend my hard-earned money" or if she wants to eat out, even before she actually ASKS me about it, she'll say "I felt like eating out, but I don't want to yelled at/hear someone complaining about how much I spend on food". Both statements in a cold, bitter resentment kinda way.

Today I did my best to stand up for myself and told her she was being ridiculous and she needs to stop holding a grudge about an innocent question I asked 2 months ago. 




sapientia said:


> This^ (and everyone else who agreed). Respectfully, your question is wrong. This is not about diffusing a hostile situation, but about dealing with the extreme disrespect your wife is showing you and your marriage.
> 
> Do you have any clue as to what's really crawled up her rear? Do you work? Does she?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure which of her behaviours constitutes abuse, I'd like to hear more on your thoughts about this...

We both work, she makes a bit more than I do (though, with my commission bonus, I'm closing the gap). 

And Yes, she seems pretty much done with this marriage. If you read my other threads, particularly "How to Know when it's Time to Go", I'm sure you'll agree. 

Actually, the BIGGEST thing that bothers me right now, much more than her complaining about every little thing, is she absolutely rejects any physical attention from me. I'm talking any touch to hug her, smell her hair, any physical contact is almost always met with "Baby, leave me alone" and if she's facing me, she'll put up her hands in a blocking position and her face will be some twist of annoyance and disgust (not sure if that means she's literally disgusted with me, but that's the best way I can describe her face. I feel like she's repulsed by me, though. The only time I get to even touch is her is when I say good-bye to go to work (when I hug her, kiss her cheeks and get a peck kiss)

In fact, (this is going to sound pathetic) last week we had some her friends from Philippines come visit us, 2 females and one Male. The girls were decent-looking (not as attractive as my wife, IMHO). When I was shaking the hands of one the women, helping her up a step, and showing them around the house, I felt a brief moment of "attraction", I guess you could call it...something like a feeling of "this is cool, cute girl letting me grab her hand and help her up the steps" and then feeling like hugging one of them and enjoying the smell of her perfume. Again, it was just a flash of a thought that I pushed out of my mind. The best thing about that night is my wife let me hold her hand, hug her, etc in the interest of saving face and pretending to be a happily married, charming wife as she joked with her friends. In that moment, I felt a glimmer of hope that she might be like her old self again someday.


Anyways, I think I'm finally ready to consent that my wife does act like a spoiled brat a lot of times (still don't want to call her the other B-word).

I hope you guys aren't sick of these stories by now, but I've got a few more...

-This past Sunday, for Mother's day we went to visit my mother. We decided we could go paddle-boarding/kayaking together since my parent's live close to a nice reservoir. On the way up, I asked if we could stop by a bait store and grab some minnows so I could fish while kayaking. At first she said "Sure, how do you get there", then 10 or so minutes later, after one wrong turn, her patience started to wane. She started complaining about how far out of the way it was, to which I agreed and responded by saying "I know, it sucks, I wish there was one closer and more conveniently located". Afterwards, she started telling me I was "selfish" because I always have some "side plans" that interfere with our main plan of the day. I stayed silent while she grumbled and fumed. I went inside, got my bait and came out and "Thanks for letting me go here". 


-Today I donated blood at work. When I came home, she got annoyed by the "I donated blood" stickers on my shirt, and told me to change. She said they made me look like a "7 year old kid".


P.s. Okay, so we just had a heart to heart talk a few min ago (as I was about to finish this post). She admitted that she's pretty much given up on this marriage. Long story short, she felt I took her for granted in the earlier part of our marriage, whenever I went out to play games or hang out with my friends. Even if it wasn't that often (like once a month, average) she still felt neglected. I guess she's realized I wasn't the husband or the relationship she was hoping for.

She also confessed, with tears in her eyes, that she realizes she's feeling annoyed, angry and even disrespectful to me lately. She said that she is afraid she'll hurt me more if this continues in the current downward spiral.

It's been a constant ongoing cycle of separation as we've been drifting apart and starting to doing things on our own (i.e She'll watch TV, drink, listen to music with her wireless headphones. I'll go out running, goof around or play games on my PC, post here, etc)

As much as I would like to get things back to where they were before, I don't know if we can still save this marriage, but we've actually had some discussions about living separately prior to this thread, and doing so while we're still 2 respectful, sane adults and hopefully before it devolves into a catastrophic mess where we both hate each other or cause some kind of psychological damage to each other (which may have happened already). I can tell for sure that she's not cheating. She doesn't even know if she wants to be in a relationship with someone anymore (at least not in the near future). 


I'm not sure if it's possible because we just renewed our contract. I mentioned moving out and letting her find a roommate. She says she doesn't really want to live with another person for 2 reasons.
1. She's learned how to be Independent/do stuff on her own and seems to prefer solitude nowadays.

2. She thinks if she moved in with anyone, she would drive them crazy because of her extreme OCD'ness. She also doesn't want to go crazy if they leave stuff laying around (another reason she's sick of the marriage--I just can't keep up with the state of cleanliness that she wants in our house) I guess we're both tired of her reminding me to pick up this, turn off this light, but this away, etc...




Sorry again, I hope you guy aren't sick of reading my posts...


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Affair. Sorry, but the redflags are undeniable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> You know WHY she does this? Because YOU keep letting her. WHY??? When she snapped at you to come get the water bottle, why the hell didnt you go sit back down?? And when she called you down to get her a drink? WHY didnt you just go back upstairs?? That was just total bullsh!t. No need to engage in confrontation, just go back to what you were doing. You are the only one who can stop this crap, YOU are the one allowing her to act like an entitled, spoiled little princess b!tch.
> 
> I am FLOORED by the number of men who come here to TAM that allow their women to treat them like this. It blows my mind, it really does.


:iagree: My son's father was a lot like JBH's wife. Early on I reacted to him in about the same way JBH is. Then one day I realized that me trying to explain and justify myself only fed into his game. His anger was about himself. He did not like himself so he took it out on me. When he had stress at work, he took it out on me. So basically he was having a bad day and I was his verbal punching bag.

From then on, when he's start up at me, I turn it back on him and say something like "You must have had a bad day." And then I'd walk away and go do whatever.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> So who said anything that suggested yelling, escalation, going berserk, or punching one another out?
> 
> Again, you are NOT understanding boundaries. If she escalates, you stand your ground: SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, MEAN WHAT YOU SAY, BUT DON'T SAY IT MEAN.
> 
> ...


:iagree: JBH, please read and reread Prodigal's posts.

Other suggestions that people have given you of things to day, they are good to. But if and when you use them, keep your cool. There is no need for yelling and slamming doors. I find it interesting that you do not see a middle ground between the passive way you handle things and yelling & slamming doors.

Perhaps you can work this out in counseling. You might need to verbally practice a more assertive way of responding to your wife.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I used to have to put up with the same sort of behaviour from my wife as Jukebox.

My MC said I should let it all wash over me and just say things like 'I'm sorry you feel that way' and leave it.

In teh past I would ask my wife to put the oven on at, say, 6pm so that when I get home at 7 I can use it for dinner. She would forget (passive aggression etc).

Now I don't ask her to do anything. I will tell her what I am doing for dinner (I enjoy cooking), if she would like me to do something else or something for her then tell me. If she doesn't then she either eats what I make, makes her own or doesn't eat.

I will say 'dinner ready in 10 minutes'....then 'its on the table'....I'll then sit down on my own and start whether she is there or not. Doesn't bother me.

I'm done with the passive aggression, the trying to please her etc.

I suggest Juke does the same....be pleasant and polite but rise above her stupid comments. Also detach a bit...don't let her comments get to you (not always easy, I know) and be completely nonchalant about everything.


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## OMG (Jul 9, 2010)

*Pls advise!!*

I would like to post a new advise request but i don't know how can you pls help me.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> :iagree: JBH, please read and reread Prodigal's posts.
> 
> Other suggestions that people have given you of things to day, they are good to. But if and when you use them, keep your cool. There is no need for yelling and slamming doors. I find it interesting that you do not see a middle ground between the passive way you handle things and yelling & slamming doors.
> 
> Perhaps you can work this out in counseling. You might need to verbally practice a more assertive way of responding to your wife.


Thank you Elegirl,

Trust me! I have been reading and RE-reading Prodigal's posts again and again. I definitely feel (she?) has some great advice and I need to learn how to set boundaries.

I'm not sure if I'm being too passive. I'm trying to be calm when I respond, or say nothing except the bare minimum like MarriedDude, askari and others have suggested. 

My question though, what is the difference between being "passive" as you say, and being calm, not responding or engaging. To me, they seem like somewhat the same thing.

I wonder how everyone is imagining me handling these situations.

Based on this feedback:
1. Don't engage, be calm, polite, friendly, Only say the minimum required.
2. Stand up for yourself, don't let her treat you this way.

Here's an instance of a recent episode where I tried the "calm" approach 

She cooked scrambled eggs for Breakfast on Sat morning. I decided I wanted a little more. I asked if she wanted anything else and she said "No".
I decided to make some Chorizo sausages. I made 2 sausages anticipating that she just might change her mind. If not, I would be happy eating two. Sure enough, a few min later she asked 
"Did you cook any for me or just for yourself?" 
I replied, "I cooked two, you can have one if you'd like"
I sat down to eat them a few min later and she asked me again..
"So you just made some for yourself, not for me?" (implying that I was, again, just thinking of myself/being selfish)
I responded again, "I made two, here have one if you like"
She said, "No it's okay, I don't want one" 
She did eventually try a piece, but didn't like it, since she hates spicy foods.

Also, I'm curious when Askari says his wife "forgot", due to passive aggressive nature. I'm assuming she just decided NOT to do it and pretended she forgot. Because I forget things and I genuinely forget them and those are the reasons my wife thinks I don't care about our relationship.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It sounds very much like she seeks confrontation because at some sick level she enjoys confrontation. Only the insane argue with themselves, so I'd suggest not responding at all to snarky, accusatory, hostile, playground foolishness. Children who play bossy games get to play alone. 
You might tell her that you have decided there will be peace in your life. You will treat those about you with respect and you will expect and require the same in return. There will be no mocking voices, no hissy fits, no yelling, no cussing. 
When she starts wearing her butt for a hat, leave. She can be pissed at four walls until you return. When you do return, if she's still wearing her butt for a hat, leave again. The quickest way to stop crappy behavior is to quit rewarding it. Griping at you and making you uncomfortable makes her feel powerful. That's why she does it. If you tell her plainly that her nasty disposition won't be tolerated and you consistently leave when she treats you with disrespect you take all power over you from her. You will be back in charge of your life, surrounded by people who act like human beings. If she chooses to not be one of those people, that's her choice. For this to work, you have to make damned sure you really do want a peaceful, respectful, environment and that you aren't being childish and disrespectful towards her.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

JBH, your wife sounds like she's just a bit immature. You've also been too nice. I say this because I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago. Kids were toddling around at that time, and she would get all over me on the dumbest things (not loading the dishwasher correctly, not cleaning the kids up correctly, not parking in the parking spot she wanted, etc). She was always ticked off about something (our sitter mentioned that she was constantly complaining about me). In my quest to show how mature I was and how things didn't bother me, I'd be the total nice guy instead of biting back. Bad move. 

Later, I started biting back some when she'd get that way, and her attitude would improve. I will say that she's better now (she doesn't get stressed out too much when she has the kids for 30 minutes like she used to after I've had them for two days with no issues), but I try to let her know that she's being unreasonable without going overboard.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I went inside, got my bait and came out and "Thanks for letting me go here".
> (


You asked for instances of being passive. This is passive/doormat IMO. It sounds like a suck-up, hoping she'll either get in a good mood or stay in her good mood.

You two are supposed to be a team, not be on unequal footing. This is a mother-son dynamic (her saying you look like a 7-yo with your 'I donated blood' sticker? I'd wear that sticker with pride and I'm 47!) 

While I _somewhat_agree w/others who say to remain calm and don't engage when she starts one of her tantrums, I 100% disagree with 'being polite'. 

Your wife is a bully and being polite to her bullying and bait n trap behaviors is not the answer. Frankly, I think you need to get angry and show it. (In an appropriate way). I'd be interested to see how she would react. 

I've dealt with a few bullies in my lifetime (haven't we all?) and I realize it's hard to stand up to them. I had a coworker who was a bully and I just kept trying to please her. Because I don't like confrontation. So I just kept eating her sh*t sandwich. Finally I'd had enough. And thanks to my TAM friends, I finally got the courage and dealt with it head on. It was really scary for me. Know what happened? She deflated RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES. It was quite interesting to witness. Sure, she would try getting sh*tty again with me (that's just her personality), but I had my newfound resolve and I used it every time. She eventually stopped because, well, SHE GOT FIRED. 

So, sure, be calm and in control, but being polite is why you're here in the first place. I know you have initial gut responses to her myriad of requests/baits for a fight. You've said as much in your posts. Act on that gut response. See what happens.

Have you ever tried saying simply, "Wife, I will not talk with you when you're belittling and demeaning me. I'm an adult. I'll talk to you when you calm down and can address me in an adult and respectful manner" and then leave the room? AND THEN STAY GONE. Let her come to you and apologize.

I'm pulling for you. Still.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

You asked for my opinion. So here it is.



JukeboxHero said:


> Based on this feedback:
> 1. Don't engage, be calm, polite, friendly, Only say the minimum required.
> 2. Stand up for yourself, don't let her treat you this way.


I agree with #1 but not #2. #2 can be interpreted as fighting back which is generally not advisable.

Instead, I think this is an elaboration of #1 which covers some of #2 as far as practical:



askari said:


> My MC said I should let it all wash over me and just say things like 'I'm sorry you feel that way' and leave it.
> ....be pleasant and polite but rise above her stupid comments. Also detach a bit...don't let her comments get to you (not always easy, I know) and be completely nonchalant about everything.


If she cannot be appeased, if she is looking for a fight and not simply to get her way on something, then detaching will rob her of this.

The question, then, is how will she react? She might escalate looking for that fight. Or she might lose interest in picking fights.

Your description of the incident with the sausages suggests that she may not be simply looking for a fight. In that instance, and in some others you relate, she seems obsessed with accusing you of selfishness.

What is behind that? Let's assume, for the moment, that she is not just picking a fight but genuinely believes you are selfish. Is that something you triggered in the past or an experience before you? Speculate.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> You asked for instances of being passive. This is passive/doormat IMO. It sounds like a suck-up, hoping she'll either get in a good mood or stay in her good mood.
> 
> You two are supposed to be a team, not be on unequal footing. This is a mother-son dynamic (her saying you look like a 7-yo with your 'I donated blood' sticker? I'd wear that sticker with pride and I'm 47!)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement, Lucy!
I'm really trying to stand up for myself. Did you read my previous post where I told her she was being ridiculous for holding a grudge and complaining about my "budget" questions from a month ago?

Also, I sat silently while she complained about how I was selfish for wanting to go to the bait store. I don't know if that was doormat behavior, trying not to engage or say anything that would cause her to escalate. I'm not sure if that was the right approach, it honestly felt like I was "losing" by being silent..like I didn't have anything to say for myself and she was "right" by my own silent admission.

Honestly, I think my biggest challenge is determining when it's appropriate to set a boundary and what parameters to set/What to say. 
Like Prodigal said, I guess I'm not really accustomed to setting boundaries. IF anyone could pick a specific instance of "abuse" and tell me where I really need to set a boundary that would be helpful. 

I.e. When she asked me to take the shoe box off the counter, I don't think that was being unreasonable, and I can't imagine saying "Wife, I will not talk with you when you're belittling and demeaning me. I'm an adult. I'll talk to you when you calm down and can address me in an adult and respectful manner" . But maybe for another instance, that would be an appropriate response!



ladymisato said:


> You asked for my opinion. So here it is.
> 
> I agree with #1 but not #2. #2 can be interpreted as fighting back which is generally not advisable.
> 
> ...


Well, as far as the selfishness is concerned, it's probably related to past things I've done, most of which I would say were unintentional. 

1. In the OP, she thought I was selfish for eating the steak she had planned on saving for her lunch. Or anytime I make food without asking her if she wants some. OR do my own laundry and don't do hers
2. In general, if I don't cook for her, consider her in my plans, think of her needs first...she considers that selfish. Many times, it's unintentional or I'm forgetful, absentminded, etc.
Examples.
-Cooked some veggies on the grill. They got a bit overcooked, I asked if she wanted any, she said she would eat later. I took that as her not really wanting the veggies and since they were burnt anyways (and I thought she probably wouldn't like them) I ate them all.
- When packing steak for our lunches, I absentmindedly drained all the steak juice into my rice. She got a lil' upset because she wanted some for her lunch. 

One thing that's quite probable from earlier in the relationship is when wanted to go out with my friends/out to play and she was left at home (since she didn't have friends at the time). In general, she's always resented my hobbies/games.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Well, as far as the selfishness is concerned, it's probably related to past things I've done, most of which I would say were unintentional.
> 
> 1. In the OP, she thought I was selfish for eating the steak she had planned on saving for her lunch. Or anytime I make food without asking her if she wants some. OR do my own laundry and don't do hers
> 2. In general, if I don't cook for her, consider her in my plans, think of her needs first...she considers that selfish. Many times, it's unintentional or I'm forgetful, absentminded, etc.
> ...


These are all more recent, evidence of this concern. I want to figure out if it is possible that she is simply holding a grudge against you or reacting on the basis of something from her past.



> One thing that's quite probable from earlier in the relationship is when wanted to go out with my friends/out to play and she was left at home (since she didn't have friends at the time). In general, she's always resented my hobbies/games.


Yes, I recall this from your earlier posts. And you are still indulging the hobbies and games. If that is the root of her anger at you then it is an ongoing nuisance.

Is it possible that she is actually very, very resentful of your hobbies and games at that this resentment is driving her anger toward you?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

ladymisato said:


> These are all more recent, evidence of this concern. I want to figure out if it is possible that she is simply holding a grudge against you or reacting on the basis of something from her past.
> 
> 
> Yes, I recall this from your earlier posts. And you are still indulging the hobbies and games. If that is the root of her anger at you then it is an ongoing nuisance.
> ...


I believe she is holding a grudge for most things that she complains about. It's not just about me being selfish. Having to ask/remind to do something, but something away, etc. I think she's just exhausted from all the things that she tries to maintain in the relationship and in general. 

Again, she's "OCD" as she calls herself. Any item left out of place drives her crazy. I'm not a slob (or I try not to be) but occasionally, I've leave an article of clothing somewhere, or take off my shoes and put them on the floor, somewhere NOT in the "shoe tray" where we usually put our shoes (which inevitably leads to them being in her way). 

At this point, like I mentioned above, she prefers her solitude and doesn't care as much where I go/What I do. Since she's been "isolating" herself by putting on head-phones, listening to music and browsing her ipad, I've also started playing a game on my PC for an hour or so on most nights, in addition to trying to get more exercise.

I still want to enjoy my hobbies, but I'm now starting to feel like I need to find more productive ways to spend my time, doing things like getting more fit, finding a better job, etc.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> I believe she is holding a grudge for most things that she complains about. It's not just about me being selfish. Having to ask/remind to do something, but something away, etc. I think she's just exhausted from all the things that she tries to maintain in the relationship and in general.
> 
> Again, she's "OCD" as she calls herself. Any item left out of place drives her crazy. I'm not a slob (or I try not to be) but occasionally, I've leave an article of clothing somewhere, or take off my shoes and put them on the floor, somewhere NOT in the "shoe tray" where we usually put our shoes (which inevitably leads to them being in her way).
> 
> At this point, like I mentioned above, she prefers her solitude and doesn't care as much where I go/What I do. Since she's been "isolating" herself by putting on head-phones, listening to music and browsing her ipad, I've also started playing a game on my PC for an hour or so on most nights, in addition to trying to get more exercise.


Is there any possibility of having a frank discussion with her about her resentment?

I am skeptical that she doesn't care. She seems to be vacillating between withdrawal and attacking you.

The OCD thing is certainly a problem but I don't think it is _the_ problem. It just makes things worse.



> I still want to enjoy my hobbies, but I'm now starting to feel like I need to find more productive ways to spend my time, doing things like getting more fit, finding a better job, etc.


Regardless of anything else, this is important. Showing her that you are making an effort might make a difference with her and it will certainly make a difference with you.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

All signs are she's spoiling for a fight.

Re: the breakfast incident. Does she do most of the cooking typically? Could this be a source of resentment for her?

btw, I thought you handled it fine, except when she asked you twice if you made her some, why didn't you just confront her directly

"Look, I made a bit extra for you in case you changed your mind. If you don't want it, that's your choice, but I don't appreciate your implication I'm somehow rude when I'm clearly not."

Use your I words, man. Set boundaries you are not a doormat. Calm and firm.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

sapientia said:


> All signs are she's spoiling for a fight.


I think it's too early to conclude this. We have at least one example where a calm response did not elicit a fight.



> "Look, I made a bit extra for you in case you changed your mind. If you don't want it, that's your choice,...


That's fine.



> ...but I don't appreciate your implication I'm somehow rude when I'm clearly not."


That accusation will escalate the fight. I don't think it's helpful.

If something must be said, try more neutral language like "you seem upset about something."


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks for your opinion of my post Lady. I'll let the OP decide its relevance (or not), thanks.

Much of the literature on conflict resolution says that using terms such as "you are" "you seem" can be interpreted as accusatory so I'm not sure your recommend is an improvement. Perhaps our OP might find the following interesting in crafting his response:

http://www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/istate.htm

Best,
Sapi


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks again, Ladies.

Thanks to everyone for your advice again. I've been re-reading this post a few times over, trying to absorb everything you guys are saying and seeing what I can apply to my situation.
Either way, I wanted to minute to step aside and explore this post (which I haven't responded to yet)


Tobyboy said:


> Affair. Sorry, but the redflags are undeniable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really don't think she's having an affair, even though I've seen some flags that concern me as well.

However, I'd like to know what YOU (or anyone else who agrees) thinks are the major red flags.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

No respect for you.

Stopped all physical contact. 

Paying twice as much for lunch. 

Ask you what you would do if she cheated. 

Demonizing you. 

Wants to separate to not hurt you anymore. 

Projecting on to you her traits. 

What are the red flags that you've observed JBH?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> No respect for you.
> 
> Stopped all physical contact.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the info Toby,

I did start a new thread to discuss this subject. Regretfully, my wife was snooping around in my history and found it. Needless to say she wasn't happy


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> *Reasons Why I think she wouldn't cheat/have an affair*
> -She never goes anywhere, except to the Gym, out to lunch w. Co-workers (AFAIK), she always comes straight home after work.
> -I highly doubt she would have an affair w anyone at work, since everyone there knows she's married and she always wears her rings
> -Says she doesn't want to be in a relationship w/ anyone, wants to enjoy being single


You are very naive.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what you find on her phone.

Re cheating or not. Deal in what you know but remember either way her behaviour is less trustworthy. That's a red flag alone.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Lately, she seems to have overall annoyed attitude about a lot of things... I could list plenty more.
> 
> Perhaps I'm being too much of a "NIce Guy" and yes I have bought and read "NMMNG" and read up to the chapter about reclaiming your personal power. Having started any breaking free exercises though.
> 
> Any advice on how to handle these situations?


I think you answered your own question. You are being too nice and, in short, putting up with abuse. 

When my wife gets in these sorts of moods I will play along for a while to try to figure out what is eating her. I find then when her emotions are running high like this her outbursts sometimes can reveal what is going on under the surface. It's not about the taco shells but that she has some other issue that is unresolved. That or she really is a ***** about taco shells. 

After a day or so of my wife's attitude like this I'll confront her and tell her how I have been feeling. I'll tell her specific examples of her irrationality and force her to either fess up or else dive deeper into denial. Either way my house is more sane. 

Earlier in our marriage I did not know how to hold my temper so when my wife would go on a ***** binge like this I would loose it. She would then use that against me. I felt like she was intentionally inciting me to go crazy by being a wench and I fell for it nearly every time. Since then I've learned to be more mature and hold my tongue as much as I can. Now when she picks on me to the point where I feel like I am boiling over I will tell her I am about to get upset and I need to leave. Then I walk out of the house or room without waiting for her permission. Afterwards I have a chance to think and cool off. Then I can come back, apologize, then talk with her. 

The key is to not be a party to someone else's insanity. We all have issues. And some of our issues only surface around other people and their issues. At least have a strategy to deal with it. It doesn't mean you have to deal with it perfectly every time, but at least getting better or not make it any worse.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to give a few updates here, since it's been nearly a week since my last post. Some interesting developments over the weekend.

First, I found this on the internet. 
Woman Realizes She’s Been Accidentally Abusing Her Husband | The Federalist Papers

Friday Night- We went paddle-boarding/kayaking tonight. I was a bit frustrated with myself because I wasn't careful enough and got caught unlocking her phone using her "secret" pw. She changed it immediately. Later when we left, she pointed that "I" had forgotten to bring some water/drinks she had packed in a bag. Even though, I vaguely remember her packing these items, I felt a bit frustrated that she blamed me for forgetting something that she had packed.

When we finally got on the water, everything was good for the most part, until she stopped and sat down on her paddleboard to take a picture of the sunset. I didn't realize she had stopped and the path of my Kayak took me in front of her while she was trying to take a picture. 
She shouted "HEY! Get out of my shot, I'm trying to take a picture of the sunset."
I asked "Why, can't I be in your picture?" with a smile on my face. 
She complained I was in her way so I paddled out and around her and told her she should at least ask nice and say "please" she responded by saying "I don't know how to do that anymore"

On our way back, while packing up our stuff, I saw some other fisherman/Boaters and as part of my "seeing other people" initiative, I made some friendly conversation by asking them how they were doing, what they caught, how much, etc. On our way home she remarked "Why are you so chatty, tonight? and proceeded to mock-voice the questions I had asked other people "how much did you catch, what did you catch?" I found that to be really disrespectful and wanted to tell her that I really didn't appreciate it. However, I decided to keep my mouth shut and not to say anything. I really wanted to, and later I felt like kicking myself because I felt like it was the perfect time to say something, but I passed up on the opportunity. Don't know if I made the right call.

Driving home, we had another conversation about our relationship and how she felt like I had taken her granted before (More on this later). 

Later in the evening I took a run and picked up the mail and Lo and Behold, my VERBAL JUDO had arrived!! I sorta tried to hide it from my wife, but when I finally walked into the house, she saw it in my hands and asked about it. When she saw the title she said "Oh, I bet I know what that's for".

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Saturday Morning I woke up a little earlier than my wife and created a post in CWI about some of the suspicions I had about my wife hiding something on her phone. I thought she was sleeping pretty well, but when I went back to bed, she told me I had awoken her with my typing. (my office is down the hall from our room, guess my keyboard is loud). She asked what I was typing and if I was writing something on TAM. I lied and told her I was just typing something for an online journal I was going to start doing. This is something I've been thinking about doing in the near future. 

After breakfast, I was playing a game on my computer and DW came up and asked to use my computer to look something up. I asked her if she could use her Phone/Ipad, but she said they were both charging (I later realized I had seen at least one with a decent charge, so I think this claim was really BS). I should have realized she had ulterior motives when asking to use my PC. After I finished my game, I loaded up REI so she could look at some Paddleboard stuff. I went into the restroom and took a shower. When I returned to the room, I saw her close a site and go back to REI. I sat down beside her and she asked me something about how I felt about our relationship, or if there was anything I wanted to share about how I felt about us, since she had shared all of her thoughts the previous night. 

At this point, I FINALLY got to express all my pent up frustration. I told her I wanted to make this relationship work, but I didn't appreciate the way she talked to me a lot of times, and referenced the most recent incidents that happened on Friday, and told her I felt disrespected by her recent attitude. It felt REALLY good to finally get that off my chest and at least attempt to set some boundaries. I don't know if I set boundaries by saying "you can't do this to me", but I feel she realized how her behavior had been affecting me and things seem to be improving.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I just wanted to give a few updates here, since it's been nearly a week since my last post. Some interesting developments over the weekend.
> 
> ...


You know what comes next? Pity sex!!! That will shut you up and keep you in your place.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> At this point, I FINALLY got to express all my pent up frustration. I told her I wanted to make this relationship work, but I didn't appreciate the way she talked to me a lot of times, and referenced the most recent incidents that happened on Friday, and told her I felt disrespected by her recent attitude. It felt REALLY good to finally get that off my chest and at least attempt to set some boundaries. I don't know if I set boundaries by saying "you can't do this to me", but I feel she realized how her behavior had been affecting me and things seem to be improving.


Saying "you cant do this to me" is NOT a boundary. You have to tell her what will happen should she continue being the nasty b!tch she has been. Whether its disengaging and leaving the room, or moving out and filing for divorce, or whatever other consequence, she needs to know her sh!t will no longer be tolerated. And you have to FOLLOW THROUGH. I dont see that happening. Do you really think that one instance of you expressing yourself is going to seriously make a difference?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's the thing, Jukebox. You keep posting these novels about minutiae. Tiny little things. Things that make you unhappy.

So, let me hit you between the eyes: UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND HOW TO SET BOUNDARIES AND MAINTAIN THEM AND GIVE HER CONSEQUENCES FOR CROSSING THOSE BOUNDARIES, YOU WILL BE SHACKLED TO THIS B!TCH.

I realize you don't "hear" the dynamic in your posts, but it's as clear as can be to most of us. Nit-picking about how to pack food, how to row a kayak ... well, you are avoiding the basic fact that your marriage sucks. Sorry, but it's time to get really blunt with you.

Your posts go on and on about all the petty crap in which unhappy couples indulge because neither one of them will face the real issue.

I don't know what the real issue is, exactly. But I doubt you do either. Unloading on your wife means jack sh!t to her. Don't make threats. Set boundaries, quit complaining, and learn how to stop this dynamic.

I mean, c'mon, life is too short to be with a nit-picky b!tch of a woman while you keep trying to appease her. Your misery? Trying to make someone happy who doesn't want to be happy.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm going to go on a different tack to the advice you're getting. Yes, her attitude towards JbH is sh!tty, but nothing will change if he never stands up for himself, if he time and again finds some reason or other to remain silent.

When she was mocking you you had the option to a) Tell her to STFU b) mock her back c) get out the vehicle and make your own way home. Basically anything except sit there and take it. 

Boundaries 101=Enforce how other people are allowed to treat you.

The bigger problem I see though, is the two of you barely function as a couple. Both of you are self-centred (different to being selfish) and your whole life appears to be a series of petty spats. 

I'm not condoning her behaviour but JbH must be exasperating to live with. The lights are on but there's no one home. 


JukeboxHero said:


> When we finally got on the water, everything was good for the most part, until she stopped and sat down on her paddleboard to take a picture of the sunset. I didn't realize she had stopped and the path of my Kayak took me in front of her while she was trying to take a picture.
> She shouted "HEY! Get out of my shot, I'm trying to take a picture of the sunset."
> I asked "Why, can't I be in your picture?" with a smile on my face.
> She complained I was in her way so I paddled out and around her and told her she should at least ask nice and say "please" she responded by saying "I don't know how to do that anymore"


This incident is a case in point. OP, you have a remarkable talent for remembering past events with accuracy, but don't seem to be engaged when they're actually happening. The two of you go out and partake in a an activity together. This should be a time for bonding over a shared experience. And there was a sunset for chrissakes!

How can you be unaware that she had stopped?
How can you be unaware that she had taken out her camera?
How can you be unaware of the sunset?

These are rhetorical questions, btw. From your account, it would appear you were behind her. How could you not notice what she was trying to do? Where was your attention? What were you looking at whilst your wife has the setting sun on her face and is pointing a camera toward it? Your attempt to be playful took no account of what she was trying to do. In your situation I would have rolled in behind her and offered to hold her steady...

Even when you do things "together" you're not suitably engaged. You're there, but not there. Here are a few more examples from a previous post


JukeboxHero said:


> Well, as far as the selfishness is concerned, it's probably related to past things I've done, most of which *I would say were unintentional*.


Yeah, yeah. It's "unintentional". Forget about relationships for a minute. Read up on the Buddhist concept of Right Mindfulness - it's all about living in the present, being aware of your surroundings and how you actions and inactions will affect others.


> 1. In the OP, she thought I was selfish for eating the steak she had planned on saving for her lunch. *Or anytime I make food without asking her if she wants some. OR do my own laundry and don't do hers*


You're supposed to be a couple. It doesn't take any more effort to cook or do the laundry for one or two.


> 2. In general, if I don't cook for her, consider her in my plans, think of her needs first...she considers that selfish. Many times, *it's unintentional or I'm forgetful, absentminded*, etc..


In this day and age there's no excuse. Write down the things you're supposed to do on your hand, on a list on the fridge or keeps a things to do list on your phone/laptop. Every time you "forget" to do something you promised you're failing to be a reliable partner. 


> -Cooked some veggies on the grill. They got a bit overcooked, I asked if she wanted any, *she said she would eat later. *I took that as her not really wanting the veggies and since they were burnt anyways (and I thought she probably wouldn't like them) I ate them all.


In what world does "I will eat them later' = "I don't want them. Go ahead and eat them all yourself". This was greed on your part. These are the freaking basics - making sure your partner is fed and stays healthy.


> - When packing steak for our lunches, I *absentmindedly* drained all the steak juice into my rice. She got a lil' upset because she wanted some for her lunch.


What exactly were you thinking about when you're packing lunch for the two of you? This is seemingly a simple task. When you fail, you erode the idea that you're capable of thinking as a couple.



> One thing that's quite probable from earlier in the relationship is when wanted to go out with my friends/out to play and *she was left at home (since she didn't have friends at the time).* In general, she's always resented my hobbies/games.


No, you've read this wrong. The bolded part is the important factor. The hobbies, games, friends are all peripheral.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

azteca1986 said:


> I'm going to go on a different tack to the advice you're getting. Yes, her attitude towards JbH is sh!tty, but nothing will change if he never stands up for himself, if he time and again finds some reason or other to remain silent.
> 
> When she was mocking you you had the option to a) Tell her to STFU b) mock her back c) get out the vehicle and make your own way home. Basically anything except sit there and take it.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you're right, Aztec. 

Regarding the camera incident, I believe I was beside her paddling along, looking at the sunset perhaps. Her camera is her phone so I didn't notice her taking a pic with it until I turned right, crossing in front of her with my Kayak. Later I did go back and hold her steady. 

Also, in regards to the suggestions for setting boundaries. This is Where I'm really struggling. 
Are those really my only options?
Tell her to STFU? Yeah, that would just make her more upset and feel disrespected, hurt, offended, etc. I don't like that idea.
Mock her back? Maybe, I guess it depends on how I do that.
Walk 10 miles to get home? Idk, that sounds a bit extreme. 

But on the other hand. I don't want to sit there and take it either.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JukeboxHero said:


> Also, in regards to the suggestions for setting boundaries. This is Where I'm really struggling. Are those really my only options?


YES. Boundaries are for you, not for her. You aren't happy with the way things are, but you don't know how to handle it, so you focus on the little stuff. Behind all this little stuff is a BIG lotta stuff. You are afraid to rock the boat because you don't understand boundaries are about you and for you. YOU.



JukeboxHero said:


> Tell her to STFU? Yeah, that would just make her more upset and feel disrespected, hurt, offended, etc. I don't like that idea. Mock her back? Maybe, I guess it depends on how I do that.


What you are suggesting has nothing whatsoever to do with how adults set boundaries as to what they will accept and not accept as how they are treated.

STFU? Mock her? Good grief, that is the farthest thing from boundary setting as Alpha Centauri. 

I was married to a hard-core alcoholic. While we were married, he lost two jobs in a period of four years. I was so concerned about his mood swings, his benders, his job loss, that I cried, begged, threatened, cussed-out, dragged-in/dragged-out of treatment programs. You name it, I did it.

He never got that moment of clarity that allowed him to realize the drinking caused the problems, rather than problems caused the drinking.

One of the most difficult things to do is set boundaries with an addict. They will manipulate (like your wife), threaten, and abuse boundaries.

My moment of clarity came when I realized what I would and would not tolerate. So, I sat him down and basically said, "I respect your right to drink as much as you desire. However, I can no longer live with your drinking. You show no inclination to stop. Thus, I am leaving. If you choose to work a program and seek sobriety, contact me."

I respected his right to drink himself to death. He was found dead, alone in Omaha on January 16. He had been dead 3-4 days when he was discovered.

I set my boundaries. He chose the way he wished to live his life. I respected it.

Do you see the difference? I never told him to stop drinking, or I'd leave. I told him I would leave because I didn't wish to tolerate his drinking.

Big difference. Think about it. Seriously.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> Perhaps you're right, Aztec.
> 
> Regarding the camera incident, I believe I was beside her paddling along, looking at the sunset perhaps. Her camera is her phone so I didn't notice her taking a pic with it until I turned right, crossing in front of her with my Kayak. Later I did go back and hold her steady.


I honestly don't think micro-analysing past events is much help to you. You're only gong to be faced with a bunch of "things I should have done" and get yourself down. You need to be *fully present* in the present. Aware. Engaged. Switched on. 



> Also, in regards to the suggestions for setting boundaries. This is Where I'm really struggling.
> Are those really my only options?


No they not your only options. My "suggestions" were really to gauge your responses, which are much as expected. More of that later...



> But on the other hand. I don't want to sit there and take it either.


Excellent. Sitting there and passively taking it is not an option.

Now, I want to give you some advice from a male perspective. What are the top two ways to *avoid* a fight (I mean an actual physical confrontation)?

1. Run away
2. Let the other party know you are absolutely ready to fight if you have to.

Strange but true, being prepared to fight will get you out of trouble.
What I do not see from you is any indication that you are prepared to stand up for yourself. There's a few things going on in your relationship - lack of respect from your wife, lack of boundaries on your part. To regain some respect from your wife you have to stand up for yourself. No one else will.

Your options when dealing with a hostile wife are much the same as dealing with a hostile random in a bar and fit into the two categories I outlined above:
a) Remove yourself
b) Stand your ground

So, on the subject of your wife mocking you, what are you prepared to do to make her stop? Because, obviously, if you do nothing, she won't stop.



> Tell her to STFU? Yeah, that would just make her more upset and feel disrespected, hurt, offended, etc. I don't like that idea.


You're off to a bad start, though not for the reason you may think, JBH. And, no, I'm not recommending you tell your wife to STFU. I wanted to see what you were prepared to do. 

You don't like the idea. Here's the problem: You don't want her to feel disrespected, hurt, offended or more upset? But she doesn't have such qualms when she mocks you. That's exactly what she was doing. If you want a healthy relationship, you cannot have one rule for her and another for you. 

The question you should be asking yourself is "Why do I allow her to speak to me in this way?". You teach other people how to treat you. If you will not respect yourself, no one else will. When she is mocking you, why are worried about how she feels? You should be giving her the same (lack of) consideration she is giving you.

This is the first step to understanding boundaries: Boundaries are for you. They are what you are prepared to put up with. You cannot control her (or anybody else). You can only control yourself.



> Mock her back? Maybe, I guess it depends on how I do that.


Better. I'm not recommending this either. But you have to be prepared to stand up for yourself or people will walk all over you.


> Walk 10 miles to get home? Idk, that sounds a bit extreme.


You didn't have to walk. You could have called a mate to pick you up. Or a cab. You sometimes just need to tell her that you won't be spoken to that way... and then remove yourself from that situation. You have to do this at home too. Refuse to engage with her until she speaks in a respectful way. Just because she's your spouse she can't speak to you anyway she chooses *and expect you to listen *. This is how you enforce a boundary. You state clearly that you're not standing for this and then remove yourself:

"I don't appreciate your tone". And then remove yourself
"You're being unreasonable". And then remove yourself
"I don't understand why you're so upset". And then remove yourself

I truly hope this helps.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> YES. Boundaries are for you, not for her. You aren't happy with the way things are, but you don't know how to handle it, so you focus on the little stuff. Behind all this little stuff is a BIG lotta stuff. You are afraid to rock the boat because you don't understand boundaries are about you and for you. YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Prodigal,

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. That must have really hurt--to leave him, than to hear he had died a few days later? It only makes me wonder how he died...did he die at home or get in an accident somewhere?

Regardless, I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to suggest telling her to STFU, mock her back was setting a boundary, but rather I was responding to what Aztec had said. Either way, I really appreciate you explaining the difference in detail. I guess I guess I've never had to set boundaries before. Or maybe I just let people push me around and didn't set boundaries when I should have.



azteca1986 said:


> I honestly don't think micro-analysing past events is much help to you. You're only gong to be faced with a bunch of "things I should have done" and get yourself down. You need to be *fully present* in the present. Aware. Engaged. Switched on.
> 
> No they not your only options. My "suggestions" were really to gauge your responses, which are much as expected. More of that later...
> 
> ...



Thank you Aztec, it DOES help. I need to confess that you're absolutely correct about me not always being aware/alert of the present as much as I should. I'll start doing some routine task like draining the juice from a steak and my mind will wander for a few seconds before I realized I drained it all.

Hell, the other day I was driving in small town where my parent's lived---looking for a place to fish. My mind wandered as I admired the scenery and my hand out sticking out the window. I drifted slightly and hit the curb and BAM! I pulled over to realize I had dinged my rim and had a flat tire. Changing the tire wasn't too bad, but MAN, was pretty pissed at myself for not paying attention and being more alert. 

I also have a habit of starting a lot of tasks at once, especially when I'm cooking in the kitchen. Which is why my wife probably gets frustrated with me. She keeps things neat, orderly and has a streamlined process where she cooks and effectively cleans as she goes Where I'll typically get a few things out, a few more, than try to wash some dishes, move stuff around...and pretty soon it's a clutterfest. Even if I do manage to clean as I go, I usually leave a few things which irritates my wife. 

The good news is that most of the time she just tells me to clean it up or exclaims "it's quite a mess in here", and I respond with "Give me some time, I'll clean it up" and manage to start cleaning things up before she gets too upset. But if she does get upset, it's always one thing that causes her to start an avalanche of complaints about minor things. 

In fact, this week was pretty good as far as any hostile situations are concerned. She only got really upset one time when I was cleaning the kitchen and once I thought I was finished, I left. She went into the kitchen and saw that I had NOT turned off a burner (on our electric stove) that I had NO idea she had left on.


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## len51 (May 22, 2015)

I find that keeping my mouth shut and repeating that I am sorry, works wonders. I used to argue but that never ended well so now I just let her vent and that seems to really help. We rarely are in conflict though because we are both easy going people. 

We also let each other know when something is bothering us so that it does not turn into a fight. It has worked for us over the last 40 years with some tweaking here and there. We have just communicated well to each other so we are aware of what the problems are and then work on fixing them if possible. Not everything can be fixed so acceptance is part of it. It is funny how once you accept something, it ceases to be a cause of anger or frustration.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

I didn't read all the posts here as I'm late to this thread and there is so much to read, however I'd like to point out 2 things:

- this constant conflict with the pettiest things (doesn't really matter what) is a sign of a deeper issue. When someone is often too irritable that anything sets her off, something might be wrong like maybe she is unhappy, stressed about something.

- you are an equal partner so you must not just let things pass and you must talk to her about how you feel and work together as a team. Let things pass and her having her way is not going to help both of you.

You see, sometimes people go through harder phases of life that it can stress them and make them more irritable. When me and my husband started living together we started facing new responsibilities that it stressed and strained both of us. We were unsure, worried, wondered how to manage many things including money, so we both became irritable that petty stuffs would get us started. You can list many detailed petty situations but it doesn't really matter, unless you want people to help you hold a trial to point out who is right or wrong in these petty situations.

What you need here is to learn how to communicate better with your wife, and communication is not just about being sincere. It's also about understanding that people can perceive things differently so while one might think that he is as clear as he can get and he didn't have any bad intentions, the other might still perceive it wrongly, and vice versa.
Then you need to understand how you and your wife expresses and how it is perceived by the other.

You said that you have told your wife how you felt and she seemed to understand, which is great. As long as you both don't give up and try to figure out how to communicate better, which can take some time, there is a chance that things will get much better. After all, this is a typical thing that can happen with couples (depending on their communication styles and capacity to learn) but too many might give up as soon as they face harder conflicts.


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