# Weekly beer with stbxww - not sure



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

My stbxw cheated on me for several months starting around last Spring until last Fall (or at least that's what she's admitted to). I am divorcing her. We have 2 children together and have joint custody. On Wednesdays I pick them up from her house after work. She still wants to be close to me and tries to get me to stay and visit...she sits right beside me, touches my foot with hers, touches my thigh...we talk about the kids and stuff so it's good that way (keep each other in the loop about what's going on with them). She sends me home with food, we have a beer together...

I have tremendous anger towards her for what she did - but I am divorcing her, so I kind of feel that blowing up or making her eat sh*t is futile. I have no interest in associating with her beyond what's necessary for the kids...but for some reason I still feel bad saying "no" when she asks me in for a visit and a chat. I'd rather just get the kids and get the F out of there.

Another difficult thing is my daughter (5) LOVES seeing us together and always tries delay tactics to prolong the visit. It breaks my heart. The stbx is very friendly and affectionate toward me - I feel nothing but contempt, or at the very best, indifference.

I'm torn on what to do because I want to keep things amicable and friendly for the kids, and so she doesn't lose her sh*t (she's not a stable person). It's confusing. She just texted me now "beer and visit tonight?". Usually I reply right away, but I'm learning not to do that any more, because I don't have to.

I'm also not totally disconnected, obviously, because I don't want to hurt her feelings or upset her (WTF is with that - she DESTROYED me). I will never reconcile with her - it is 100% over. But I am rather confused and torn. 

Advice?


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Walk away. That's better for the kids anyway. Would you want to teach them that you forgo your own respect? That you should not pull back when someone shows you that they cannot be trusted?


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## Battleworn (Jun 24, 2013)

It is hard to detach from someone when they tear your heart out and still want to be friendly. They try to keep the conversation light and friendly, and you're thinking "GO F*** YOURSELF! WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND?!" To me, keeping that door open can't be healthy for either of you. If you TRULY don't want to be with this woman, you probably don't want to hang out with her and have a beer. I personally cannot be around my STBXH without wanting him and just wanting to touch him. Not wanting to hurt her is because you love her, and she was the love of your life before she did... well what she did. I'm guessing that she won't take it well anyway, but you should definitely be firm about it if you don't want to hang out. Not a d*** obviously, but don't let her think that there is room for friendship, at least not right now. Maybe a couple of years down the road?

Really it's up to you. I just think it will hinder your healing process if you don't detach. 

Also, it probably isn't good for your kids to see you guys being that close. Hope affects everyone in that situation. Her, if she's thinking y'all with get back together if you just hang out and rebond, and your little ones of course want their mom and dad to be together. 

I'm sorry you were cheated on. I can't imagine that would be easy to face down, especially the time line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

As a child of divorce I'll tell you it's not good for your 5 year old. Of course she wants to prolong the visit, mommy and daddy are together. Kids always harbor that fantasy, I can tell you that. 

It's good for kids to see separated/divorced parents get along and cooperate but what you're describing is a happy couple. That's confusing to a 5 year old.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Sigh. Thanks guys. I hate the fact that I can't fully disconnect. TBH at first I was only being friendly so she'd sign the separation agreement waiving alimony - which she has. But I am feeling guilty (or something) about just saying "no thanks" and walking - but I KNOW I have to. I know I have to disconnect to heal and move on.I'm too f*cking soft. I've been generally kind to her through all of this. A few blow ups here and there but mostly I don't treat her like someone who pulled my beating heart out of my chest, set it on fire then took a sh*t on it - and SHE DID.

Same goes for accepting food. She's a good cook and it's convenient - but that's a tie I shouldn't have, right? F*ck this is tough.

I guess unless it's really important, stuff about the kids can be done via text.

I don't know what I am having an issue with letting this part go, or breaking it off. I guess 15 years together is harder to just totally kill off then I thought.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Are you daring other people ?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Are you daring other people ?


Dating? I was - a lot. I backed right off of that - no desire and I'm not in that space.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

I get it, I really do. Early in my divorce when we were living apart I felt bad for my exwife even though she was the one who wanted the divorce (at first). You love and care about the woman and that doesn't just go away because she cheated on you.

It takes time, and it's worse when you spend more time together and she messes with your head by being affectionate.

You HAVE to detach. Forget about weekly beers and trying to act like you're friendly for the kids. The marriage is over, they know it and they need to accept it.

Deal with her as minimally as possible, don't hang out with her, don't drink with her, don't talk to her about anything of a personal nature, keep the conversations short and to the point. 

You'll eventually detach and still have a working, amicable relationship only because you need to for the sake of the kids. One day they'll be adults and you will completely sever the cord, although you might run into her at a family event, and give her a nod of acknowledgement but that will be it.


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## Battleworn (Jun 24, 2013)

And you're positive that you want this divorce?

It's really freaking hard to detach! And 15 years is a long time to be with someone. She is the one who chose to throw it away by cheating on you, so she shouldn't get to be your friend. She doesn't deserve it! I have to think that sometimes when I want to text my STBX and just talk. I miss my best friend. But, he chose to leave. So he doesn't get to have parts of me. It's all or nothing and you are not any different! All or nothing right? 

You can be amicable for the kid's sake but don't put too much pressure on yourself to remain friendly with her. My parents still cannot get along, but I wish they could. My dad never really let it go, what my mom did, and my mom still won't drop the drama that my dad caused years ago when she had her affair. Don't let the anger and betrayal eat at you, or you will never move past this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I just came back from getting kids. She asked me in for a beer, I said no. She was puzzled then texted "we aren't going to hang out any more?"

She keeps saying she "still needs me, will always need me". But she can't have me! She burnt us down to the ground. Like Dwight Yoakam sings "well don't be sad, cause you got what you wanted...you should be glad to know that I'm finally gone...don't feel bad or be disappointed, 'cause you got what you wanted all along".

And yes, I most definitely want this divorce. I NEED to be divorced from her.

She just texted me that "it's important for the kids, but take your time, I understand". She's saying our visits are important for the kids. She's trying to manipulate me....again.


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## Battleworn (Jun 24, 2013)

Good one, realizing that she's trying to manipulate you! Looks like you are more over this than it seems c:
Yeah really man. Hey, her loss though. You seem like you at least have your head on straight. And hey, all that s*** she's pulling is regret and guilt and realizing that she really is going to lose you. Expect desperation to show its face, but stick to your guns! Anything else will just keep her on you like a hound. 

What would be more beneficial to your kids, if you haven't already, would be to wait a week or so and talk to them about what is going on. Maybe plan something fun, before or after the talk. Make sure they know that y'all will still be there for him, but not together, yada. Who knows what she is telling them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Not knowing if mom and dad are together or not is confusing to kids. It puts them on eggshells thinking they have to be perfect so they don't mess things up. And when resentments take their tole, the kids think they've done something wrong.

Do what you have to do Healer. Lonliness is tough. Just try to keep what feels good separate from what you think IS good and try to act based on what you think rather than what you feel as often as you're able to. Your ex probably lonely too but that's her problem. Not yours. How she felt was your problem before she stepped out on you marriage but not now.


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## volley (Aug 24, 2013)

Why do the people that you trusted the most and destroyed everything you know think that they are entitled to your friendship. My STBXH doesn't understand why I can't be in the same room with him and why I don't want to go to dinner with him to discuss how we are going to split everything up. I know my X for sure had an emotional affair but not sure about a physical one and he will not admit to either one. These people are delusional to think that we should be over everything and accept their friendship. My X says he wants to be able to talk to one another and be friends. Stay strong and do not let your X use your kids to manipulate you.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Healer said:


> I just came back from getting kids. She asked me in for a beer, I said no. She was puzzled then texted "we aren't going to hang out any more?"
> 
> She keeps saying she "still needs me, will always need me". But she can't have me! She burnt us down to the ground. Like Dwight Yoakam sings "well don't be sad, cause you got what you wanted...you should be glad to know that I'm finally gone...don't feel bad or be disappointed, 'cause you got what you wanted all along".
> 
> ...


Oh yes she is and its good you see that.

What's important is for the kids to see parents who can cooperate and be drama free in front of them.
They don't need parents who act like a couple when they're not. It just confuses the heck out of them.

Oh and your stbxw needs to know she doesn't get to fool around and have you for support too.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Thanks y'all. We've been living apart since February, so they know we are not together. These visits are just once a week, maybe 20 mins, but the last couple times she tried to extend it. The kidlets know we are done, but I don't think they know why. They are 8 and 5 - my son has a feeling...his mom apologizes all the time to him, I don't. It makes him angry when she does. He knows...it's over because of something she did. He's a very bright boy. She has professed she will tell them what happened when the time is right...we'll see.

They are adapting well, but who knows what lies ahead.

Today was an important step. I said no, and saw her, once again, attempt to manipulate me. My only hope is that she be a good mom and not cause any more harm.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd be blunt with her. You aren't ok hanging out as friends, because you aren't friends. Friends are loyal and you trust them, and that part is gone between you two.

You will be kind to her and you will be polite, but you aren't her friend, confident, or buddy. You are the man she has kids with.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I'd be blunt with her. You aren't ok hanging out as friends, because you aren't friends. Friends are loyal and you trust them, and that part is gone between you two.
> 
> You will be kind to her and you will be polite, but you aren't her friend, confident, or buddy. You are the man she has kids with.


:iagree:

You've got to be blunt, otherwise she won't get the message. And when she tries to engage you, don't react and don't give any answer/response beyond the bare minimum (or don't respond at all, if it's not necessary). Establish your boundaries and stick to them. Be strong!


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## catcalls (Oct 31, 2012)

dont go into her house. if she asks tell her thanks but you have to go. dont discuss, smile and go away. if she brings it up with email etc, you dont have to respond. only respond to anything relating to the kids

you best option is to heal, stop caring for her and reach a level of indifference with her. you should aim to treat her like a friendly acquaintance, so you are cordial, exchange greetings like hello etc. but that is that. dont tell her, just show it. she will get it


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Battleworn said:


> And you're positive that you want this divorce?
> 
> It's really freaking hard to detach! And 15 years is a long time to be with someone. She is the one who chose to throw it away by cheating on you, so she shouldn't get to be your friend. She doesn't deserve it! I have to think that sometimes when I want to text my STBX and just talk. I miss my best friend. But, he chose to leave. So he doesn't get to have parts of me. It's all or nothing and you are not any different! All or nothing right?
> 
> ...


How old were you when your mom cheated, and did you know? Did you find out later? How did you feel about it? How do you feel about her now?


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## Battleworn (Jun 24, 2013)

Hm. I think I was 16? My youngest sister was 9, brother was... 13 I think. Twins were 15. I actually found out when she and I went out to get burgers at this new place she wouldn't shut up about. When we went in they asked why her husband wasn't there with her today, and the waitress commented that she loved meeting him. I knew this was fishy because my dad and mom hadn't been anywhere together in a while. My dad worked nights and slept in the day during that period of time. 
So on the way home I said "Mom. You need to talk to dad about this." She just threw me an incredulous look. That is when I discovered just how far someone would go to cover their tracks, or cause a distraction from themselves when caught in an affair. It just so happened that I had gotten a tattoo, in a place where no one would normally see it. She saw it that morning though, when she woke me up super early. So she goes "When are you going to tell your father about your tattoo?" I just stared at her. The way she said it, I knew she was going to throw me under the bus. And she did. At that point I couldn't say anything to my dad about it because how would that look? She got herself busted when my dad found extremely erotic letters she had been writing him, and him to her, in her backpack one morning before she went to work. For what ever reason, he felt like he needed to look. 

Sorry about the long story but there is a point to it! My feelings on it then were that I hated her and could never forgive her for what she did to my dad. Now, I have forgiven her for cheating on my dad, but I don't know if I could forgive how she abandoned us and sold me out just so I couldn't say anything to my dad about my suspicions. I talk to her now, but I won't ever be that close to her again. I just don't want to. 

It is hard to let it go. I'm not saying you should either. There will probably always be a part of you that is suspicious of others, particularly in a relationship. I just hope it doesn't stop you from falling completely in love with someone like it has to my dad. He always seems to have a guard up, and goes for women who NEED him instead of wanting him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Battleworn said:


> Hm. I think I was 16? My youngest sister was 9, brother was... 13 I think. Twins were 15. I actually found out when she and I went out to get burgers at this new place she wouldn't shut up about. When we went in they asked why her husband wasn't there with her today, and the waitress commented that she loved meeting him. I knew this was fishy because my dad and mom hadn't been anywhere together in a while. My dad worked nights and slept in the day during that period of time.
> So on the way home I said "Mom. You need to talk to dad about this." She just threw me an incredulous look. That is when I discovered just how far someone would go to cover their tracks, or cause a distraction from themselves when caught in an affair. It just so happened that I had gotten a tattoo, in a place where no one would normally see it. She saw it that morning though, when she woke me up super early. So she goes "When are you going to tell your father about your tattoo?" I just stared at her. The way she said it, I knew she was going to throw me under the bus. And she did. At that point I couldn't say anything to my dad about it because how would that look? She got herself busted when my dad found extremely erotic letters she had been writing him, and him to her, in her backpack one morning before she went to work. For what ever reason, he felt like he needed to look.
> 
> Sorry about the long story but there is a point to it! My feelings on it then were that I hated her and could never forgive her for what she did to my dad. Now, I have forgiven her for cheating on my dad, but I don't know if I could forgive how she abandoned us and sold me out just so I couldn't say anything to my dad about my suspicions. I talk to her now, but I won't ever be that close to her again. I just don't want to.
> ...


Wow - that's some dirty pool she played. I'm sorry you and yours went through that. I wonder how my children will feel about her when they learn the truth. That's something else I struggle with - if and when to tell them. They deserve to know it was their mother who tanked our family - not me. She betrayed them as much as me.

Cheaters are awful.


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## Battleworn (Jun 24, 2013)

Tell me about it!
When were you planning to tell them about it? Being young, my sister was 9, they can still grasp what happened but my sister didn't fully understand the concept until she was a little older. Then she really hated my mom. She still hasn't really forgiven her for what she did to us, but like I said we all kind of forgave her for what she did to my dad. With the exception of my brother. He's overseas in Afghanistan, so he hasn't learned of the man my father was/is haha. He was a cheater too, and a liar and thief! Not that he deserved that. No one deserves that. 

And that's exactly the point! People who chest don't think about the tidal waves that their "little indescretion" creates. First it's a small ripple, and after it has grown and grown, BAM everything is being tossed around and destroyed.

I hope that she doesn't slack on being a mother to them or that will really make them dislike her more. Maybe you two should have THAT conversation. That one would actually be beneficial for them, not having a hangout session.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Battleworn said:


> And that's exactly the point! People who cheat don't think about the tidal waves that their "little indescretion" creates. First it's a small ripple, and after it has grown and grown, BAM everything is being tossed around and destroyed.
> 
> I hope that she doesn't slack on being a mother to them or that will really make them dislike her more. Maybe you two should have THAT conversation. That one would actually be beneficial for them, not having a hangout session.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I use the boat making a wake analogy a lot. They blaze a trail but never look back to see what they've caused. Mine did the same "I'll be nice until you're ready". I don't have a rude tone, or say spiteful things, I just engage her the least possible way. I'm there to get my child and go spend time with her. That is now the extent of our relationship and as far as it will ever go. I am not friends with liars or cowards and I'm not starting now.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Bottom line is that people don't like being held accountable for their wrongs. It's much easier to minimize, blame shift, and justify. Minimizing what she's done is a nasty form of entitlement for her and huge disrespect toward you. It does fit that she would try to manipulate you through the kids. Sounds like the type of person she would be.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Healer, when your wife was sending out all those feelers, food, beer, touching, do you think she wanted to just get you back and then rug sweep? Or did she was want to have sex again, cry and express genuine remorse?

Was she capable of heartfelt remorse? Did she ever set her ego aside and think about you and your pain?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Healer, when your wife was sending out all those feelers, food, beer, touching, do you think she wanted to just get you back and then rug sweep? Or did she was want to have sex again, cry and express genuine remorse?
> 
> Was she capable of heartfelt remorse? Did she ever set her ego aside and think about you and your pain?


She is so damaged and delusional I don't know. She would take me back yesterday, I know it. She's said as much. 

She still texts me constantly and tries to engage. Whether through manipulation ("I know there's someone in your life and we agreed to discuss if someone is going to be around the kids" - which isn't true), or small talk about the kids' day...I've been cold as a dead fish and still today she asks if I'll come in for a beer. I just didn't respond. But I have this goddamn weird guilt about it. She comes off as this wounded animal "It's not getting better with time - it's worse. I'm in tears". And I have to remind myself SHE CHEATED ON ME AND LEFT! And now she regrets it and wants me back. I will never take her back.

Her flurry of texts today gave me anxiety and I felt like **** all day long. Now I am dreading going to pick the kids up (in 1 hour). I know what I have to do - just say no and get them and leave. She STILL has her talons in me and can make me feel awful emotionally and physically. I'm exhausted. She's an emotional vampire. 

Man, being a good and soft hearted guy sucks ass. I despise her yet somehow still feel responsible for her. WTF???


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

I fear mine will eventually do this. I'll just let her continue to date jerks like all of her friends have indicated she did before me because she'll never stop to ask herself "why do I keep ending up here?"


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> I fear mine will eventually do this. I'll just let her continue to date jerks like all of her friends have indicated she did before me because she'll never stop to ask herself "why do I keep ending up here?"


It's a really weird codependency thing. I want to know...you knew this would happen the first time you spread your legs for that pos. You did it over and over, then you left me. I took you back to try and R - realized I could never do it and kicked you to the curb. Why won't you let go? You jammed a knife in my throat and twisted...you treated me with the utmost contempt and disrespect...what are you doing?

It's just pure selfishness and narcissism. But she KNEW the outcome the first time she ****ed that guy. She's simply playing on my kindness. She knows I'm a kind man with a big heart and she continues to abuse me.

K, time to wake up, drop the anxiety and get my power back. I'm so much stronger and happier without her - this she knows, and it drives her crazy.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Read up on Cluster B Personalities. Sounds like you're trying to rationalize behavior that just isn't normal... but she sure thinks it is.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> Read up on Cluster B Personalities. Sounds like you're trying to rationalize behavior that just isn't normal... but she sure thinks it is.


Will do. I'm also reading this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/42520-developing-detachment-letting-go.html

Gold Jerry, GOLD!

I can't tell if she's manipulative or just stupid and crazy. I really do think she believes her behavior is rational - she doesn't see it for what it is. Impossible to reason with someone like this. She was like that our entire 15 years together.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

The thing is that much of that behavior can be considered abuse. Did you have anxiety before? I know I didn't. Stress, sure. Anxiety, no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, what kind of beer is it? Really nice micro brewery double pale ale or Bud Light?

If you eat and drink enough together, you know where you'll end up. I think your WW thinks that sex amounts to an apology, and acceptance of sex equals forgiveness. You don't think like that but after an 8.0% beer and seeing the kids happy, you might stop reasoning.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> The thing is that much of that behavior can be considered abuse. Did you have anxiety before? I know I didn't. Stress, sure. Anxiety, no.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude - I developed crippling anxiety when we first moved in together. I had mild anxiety before - an anxious kid I was. But nothing like what I developed being with her. And now my anxiety only rears its ugly head when I let her into my head.

Yes - abuse for sure. I never realized it when we were together. The CONSTANT cheating accusations that she would go bat**** crazy over for days on end - that NEVER went down. This went on for 15 years. I was a beaten down man...not even a man. Now? I am a man.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Well, what kind of beer is it? Really nice micro brewery double pale ale or Bud Light?
> 
> If you eat and drink enough together, you know where you'll end up. I think your WW thinks that sex amounts to an apology, and acceptance of sex equals forgiveness. You don't think like that but after an 8.0% beer and seeing the kids happy, you might stop reasoning.


I can guarantee you that will never, ever, ever happen. The ONLY hold she has over me is those kids. If it weren't for them, I would never be in her presence again. My biggest fear is her losing her **** and the kids being affected.

She used it the other day: "I'm going to crack. Is that what you want??"

My response: "You better be careful with that threat. It's all documented". She's an emotional leper.

Seriously, she's worse for me than meth (I've never done meth). If I had to have sex with her or do meth - I'd lose all my teeth.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She refuses to see a psychologist?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> She refuses to see a psychologist?


She has been seeing one. She saw one when we were together too but stopped. Then when we split she hooked up with some ********* who paid for her therapy, but that fizzled so now she sees her occasionally but not too consistently I don't think.

SHe got the hint from my no texting back and had the kids ready for pick up. I gave her a hug (not sure why) which she was surprised by. She squeezed tight and said please don't hate me - it'll make everything worse. I'm trying to find a balance of being soft but disconnected. I can't maintain my hatred - it's bad for me. But I can't be her friend either.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The hell she will.

Be their rock.

Count on her for nothing.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Conrad said:


> The hell she will.
> 
> Be their rock.
> 
> Count on her for nothing.


The hell she will what?

Yes I certainly have to be the stand up parent, and I am. 

She definitely has a personality disorder. She's admitted she's crazy. One of her lines since this went down: "you knew I was crazy when you married me!" then proceeds to blame "us" for not getting her help.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Healer said:


> The hell she will what?
> 
> Yes I certainly have to be the stand up parent, and I am.
> 
> She definitely has a personality disorder. She's admitted she's crazy. One of her lines since this went down: "you knew I was crazy when you married me!" then proceeds to blame "us" for not getting her help.


She isn't going to tell the truth about anything.

To anyone.

Being her "friend" merely helps her assuage her guilt.


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