# What qualifies as loosing your virginity?



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

A recent question that popped up and was deleted was a question about remaining a virgin until marriage. When I was young, I considered myself a virgin until I had PIV for the first time. Before that I had engaged in all possible forms of outercourse including nude genital rubbing with a condom for protection (no penetration).

I did consider myself sexually active, but I still felt like a virgin until PIV for the first time as that was a huge game changer in understanding intimacy. I wasn't trying to save myself for marriage as I did go all the way with many partners in college. I did however limit what I felt was my virginity to a relationship that had serious potential. 

I was curious as to where most people in society draw this line?

Badsanta


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

A drunken night with three girls.

Seriously though. I guess I would consider some form of penetrative sex to be the spending of virginity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

*Before PIV but heavy petting. Still a virgin:*











*After PIV. No longer a virgin*


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I agree!

*Before PIV but heavy petting. Still a virgin:










After PIV. No longer a virgin*


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Umm, wait! Did we forget about the gay people? I originally said PIV counts as losing your virginity, but now that I think about it... I mean, should losing virginity be defined the same for everyone or differently for heterosexuals and homosexuals? 

I once read that some African tribes considered a woman a virgin until she had her first child and other tribes considered a woman a virgin until she married, regardless of how many sexual partners she had.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Umm, wait! Did we forget about the gay people? I originally said PIV counts as losing your virginity, but now that I think about it... I mean, should losing virginity be defined the same for everyone or differently for heterosexuals and homosexuals?
> 
> I once read that some African tribes considered a woman a virgin until she had her first child and other tribes considered a woman a virgin until she married, regardless of how many sexual partners she had.


Excellent point. By the logic above, life-long lesbians who've never had PIV will be virgins until they die? I don't think so.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Excellent point. By the logic above, life-long lesbians who've never had PIV will be virgins until they die? I don't think so.


Well, all sexually active heterosexuals have PIV sex. For us, I think PIV is the most universally accepted way to lose virginity.

Not all lesbians use strap-ons and not all gay men have anal sex. So, penetration isn't a good way to define loss of virginity for them.

For gay people who have never had hetero sex, maybe first orgasm with a same sex partner?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Could try posting homosexual questions on a homosexual thread.

OP is heterosexual.

I definitely feel no obligation to try and define loss of virginity for homosexuals.

Ask them what they think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Could try posting homosexual questions on a homosexual thread.
> 
> OP is heterosexual.
> 
> ...


OP didn't specify. The question is very broad.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> OP didn't specify. The question is very broad.


Not to me or OP.

But BadSanta is a pretty easy going guy and usually up for all conversations.

You want to take on the homosexual question BS?

I'm neither interested or qualified.

A homosexual person should probably be asked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> A homosexual person should probably be asked.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have asked quite a few. There isn't a consensus.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

I think Bad Santa's question arose from an earlier and very short lived thread where the discussion or having oral sex and manual stimulation counted towards losing one's virginity. While he was sexually active, he had not had piv sex. A few posters questioned why he was avoiding piv sex, but doing everything else. Someone brought up that it was hypocritical that he was sexually active and enjoying oral sex, but avoiding piv. I myself made a comment regarding oral sex, I had mentioned it was called oral sex for a reason.

I think many young adults are using the technicality of not having piv sex to retain their virginity. I think a more accurate representation would be to ask if one is sexually active or not. Just because you've only had anal and oral sex without piv sex, shouldn't make one out to be a virgin. One is either sexually active or not and if your having various types of sexual relations one is at risk for STI's. Saying "I'm a virgin" can be misleading and put others at risk.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> I think Bad Santa's question arose from an earlier and very short lived thread where the discussion or having oral sex and manual stimulation counted towards losing one's virginity. While he was sexually active, he had not had piv sex. A few posters questioned why he was avoiding piv sex, but doing everything else. Someone brought up that it was hypocritical that he was sexually active and enjoying oral sex, but avoiding piv. I myself made a comment regarding oral sex, I had mentioned it was called oral sex for a reason.
> 
> I think many young adults are using the technicality of not having piv sex to retain their virginity. I think a more accurate representation would be to ask if one is sexually active or not. Just because you've only had anal and oral sex without piv sex, shouldn't make one out to be a virgin. One is either sexually active or not and if your having various types of sexual relations one is at risk for STI's. Saying "I'm a virgin" can be misleading and put others at risk.


This is my view as well. And I say this as a former (in my younger years) believer that "everything but PIV" was "ok" in my strict, Christians, no sex before marriage upbringing. I'm older and wiser now and realize that's just idiotic and hypocritical. 

Hanging on to a title of "virgin" means absolutely nothing (to God or whomever you're doing it for) if you're sexually active in every other way.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Could try posting homosexual questions on a homosexual thread.
> 
> OP is heterosexual.
> 
> ...





MJJEAN said:


> OP didn't specify. The question is very broad.


As @ConanHub mentioned, I'm an easy going guy.

I do know I once had a trucker friend I did construction work with when I was in high school. He was highly attracted to lesbians because he felt they were "pure." As in untouched by another penis. He said if he were to ever get into a relationship he would want to convert a lesbian into his wife. 

So, I kind of agree with that. There is something naturally sacred about a sexual act capable of procreation. I do not say this as an insult to lesbians, but more as a compliment. I think most men would consider a lesbian that has never been with a man but that desired an opportunity to try it at least once, would see it as an "opportunity" to help her loose her virginity. 

I've also read that a huge female fantasy is to give a gay man his first heterosexual experience. While I can not vouch for this, I knew many females that were very attracted to gay men when I was in college. Perhaps they too are see these men as more valuable since they are untouched by other women. 

I'm sure homosexuals may likely have a different opinion, but I am thinking from the point of view of heterosexuality. I'm just being candid, so please forgive me if I offended anyone.

Badsanta


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

"loose" ing 

LOL (Freudian slip?)

OK Timmy, use it in a sentence. 

I went out "loose" ing with reckless abandon and ended up "lose" ing my virginity behind the two-seater outhouse at the poke 'n puke saloon

In regard to the male homosexual question, if anal giver and receiver qualified as losing virginity it takes us back to the heterosexual question of anal butt (lol) not PIV and whether lesbians ever lose their virginity. 

One angle I find interesting is many of our egos enjoy when we find our spouses either did or did not experience a "first sexual experience" only with us and that same ego is deeply wounded when we discover a spouse willing to partake in sexual activities with others but not ourselves either before or after our relationship with them. 

Forsaking all others for every experience some how ends up special to many of us for some ego driven reason.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

badsanta said:


> As @ConanHub mentioned, I'm an easy going guy.
> 
> I do know I once had a trucker friend I did construction work with when I was in high school. He was highly attracted to lesbians because he felt they were "pure." As in untouched by another penis. He said if he were to ever get into a relationship he would want to convert a lesbian into his wife.
> 
> ...


Interesting. As a woman, I never thought of it that way. I think some of this could have to do with men thinking their penises are way more important than women think they are in terms of sexual pleasure!  (Of course they are essential to pro-creating unless medical intervention is in play). 

As a woman, it's never once entered my head that it would be conquest to "break" a homosexual man so to speak.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> Umm, wait! Did we forget about the gay people?


Most of us don't give it much thought. But you had to bring it up.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> As a woman, it's never once entered my head that it would be conquest to "break" a homosexual man so to speak.


Here you can read all about it in psychology today and blame me for your new hot fantasy!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201207/why-straight-women-are-attracted-gay-men

Apparently it is just an emotional affair from what I reading where women can be completely emotionally vulnerable without any sexual tension. 

I do remember reading somewhere that perhaps straight men pretend to be gay in order to easily pick up women and then pretend that they are interested in being seduced. Perhaps that is one of the maneuvers from the Pickup Artist Playbook or something...

Badsanta


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Here you can read all about it in psychology today and blame me for your new hot fantasy!
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201207/why-straight-women-are-attracted-gay-men


LOL! thanks!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Umm, wait! Did we forget about the gay people?





ThePheonix said:


> Most of us don't give it much thought. But you had to bring it up.


If we are going to go down this road might as well include the full LGBT community, but if you ask me I think that acronym just shows how much we might tend to easily forget about intersexuals and asexuals. Personally I use the acronym "BIG & TAL" community to help me remember everyone because it is such a growing crowd of people these days!

Badsanta


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I really think that since time immemorial, the true litmus test for "losing one's virginity" has traditionally been the heterosexual standard of "PIV!"

No one ever quite gave creedence to the fact that gay or lesbian sex was being privately practiced behind closed doors and the standard for losing one's virginity in those domains largely remained intentionally or unintentionally irrelevant within the embodiment of a "heterosexual's only world!"

Having said that, I really feel that this needs to be stringently reexamined in today's more progressive world ~ greatly to the point that I really feel that this new standard for losing one's virginity ought to be changed over to "a mutually desirable and performed sexual act between two willing partners regardless of either the nature or of the scope of the act!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> Having said that, I really feel that this needs to be stringently reexamined in today's more progressive world ~ greatly to the point that I really feel that this new standard for losing one's virginity out to be changed over to * "a mutually desirable and performed sexual act between two willing partners regardless of either the nature or of the scope of the act!"*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*So wait a minute... does this include ogling?*


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

badsanta said:


> I agree!
> 
> *Before PIV but heavy petting. Still a virgin:
> 
> ...


Ha ha.. this is hilarious.... we were heavy petters till we got married.... it's true.. once you get the REAL equipement in gear.. there won't be any going back [email protected]# No more tonka trucks...

For me.. it was NO PIV (we also didn't do oral or anything kinky.. just hands down our pants)... I vowed to myself as a young girl... that I wanted to wait till my wedding day.. I worried I'd never find a guy who'd be willing.. but I did !! He respected me more for my strong feelings on this... He darn well knew how I was dripping to do it.. I just had that line in the sand.. he wasn't worried I'd be a cold fish.. as we had our fun.. and plenty of it... 

Then when we married.. he had trouble getting it in...our story's a little ridiculous.. but it's ours.. and I treasure it.. 

I did some research a while back...for definitions, for interpretations , Traditional and Modern ..of said *"virginity"*...

Taken from Virginity - Wikipedia

1. *The traditional view* is that virginity is only lost through vaginal penetration by the penis, consensual or non-consensual, and that acts of oral sex, anal sex, mutual masturbation or other forms of non-penetrative sex do not result in loss of virginity. A person who engages in such acts with no history of having engaged in vaginal intercourse is often regarded among heterosexuals and researchers as "technically a virgin"....

Go ask Alice gave a variety of views.... Definition of virgin? | Go Ask Alice!



> Frustrating as it may be, the simplicity of your question belies the complex definition of the term "virgin."
> 
> *1.* To some, a virgin is someone who hasn't had sexual intercourse (that is, penis-to-vagina intercourse).
> 
> ...



Found this on a forum...just a Posters thoughts on some of the differences..



> *1. **Super Duper Virgins* ...
> Straight out of the 1950s and 1960s, the super duper virgin is the quintessential untouched, unsullied forbidden fruit (namely the cherry) that all would love to pop. Such virgins have never even kissed a man, let alone played with his flute. Now it’s an accepted fact that such women maintain their virginal state either out of choice or out of compulsion.
> 
> So if you happen to be dating a hardcore virgin who hasn’t allowed you to come any closer than letting you hold her hand then you what you need is a lot of patience ……or a wedding ring.
> ...


Planned Parenthood Defined...



> What is Virginity? - Planned Parenthood...*Who's a virgin, and who’s not?*
> 
> Most people would say that a virgin is someone who's never had sex — and by "sex," they often mean penetration of the vagina by the penis. This dictionary definition sounds simple enough, but it leaves a whole bunch of people out of the picture.
> 
> ...



Then we have the "Technical" virgins...Urban Dictionary is already on that ... Technical virgin




> *1.* A technical virgin is a girl who has been fvcked up her a$$, but not in her poon-tang, leaving them technically a virgin still.
> 
> *2.* A supposed "loophole" way for Christian girls to have anal and oral sex but remain "pure" and still call themselves a "virgin". Ridiculous and hypocritical, some girls who are only technically virgins themselves look down on other girls who have vaginal sex before marriage, even though they have let a guy put his penis in their a$$.
> 
> ...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

badsanta said:


> *So wait a minute... does this include ogling?*


*But isn't "ogling" traditionally deemed to be a unilateral act, that one basically does to assist in relieving themselves of this God-awful burden of "virginity?"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ha ha.. this is hilarious.... we were heavy petters till we got married.... it's true.. once you get the REAL equipement in gear.. there won't be any going back [email protected]# No more tonka trucks...
> 
> For me.. it was NO PIV (we also didn't do oral or anything kinky.. just hands down our pants)... I vowed to myself as a young girl... that I wanted to wait till my wedding day.. I worried I'd never find a guy who'd be willing.. but I did !! He respected me more for my strong feelings on this... He darn well knew how I was dripping to do it.. I just had that line in the sand.. he wasn't worried I'd be a cold fish.. as we had our fun.. and plenty of it...
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of your research! 

My belief stands....folks who "think" they are virgins/chaste because they've never done PIV (but everything else) are only fooling themselves. They'll realize it someday when they get more experienced and grow to be more mature (but I doubt it will even matter to them at that point  ).


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

The pole pretty much answers this question. PIV qualifies as no longer being a virgin from both sides. Common sense really.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> The pole pretty much answers this question. PIV qualifies as no longer being a virgin from both sides. Common sense really.


No, not really. What does "from both sides" mean? And, "common sense?"


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> No, not really. What does "from both sides" mean? And, "common sense?"


It means 16 of 17 who read this thread (so far) understand that having sex means you're no longer a virgin. Virginity is after all about sex. Anything other that actual sex is a grey area.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> It means 14 of 15 who read this thread (so far) understand that having sex means you're no longer a virgin. Virginity is after all about sex.


Right. And what constitutes "sex?" That's the point of this thread.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

badsanta said:


> *So wait a minute... does this include ogling?*


He stares any harder and she might get pregnant!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Right. And what constitutes "sex?" That's the point of this thread.


Couples should know each other before they tie the knot IMO so no surprises later on.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

badsanta said:


> As @ConanHub mentioned, I'm an easy going guy.
> 
> I do know I once had a trucker friend I did construction work with when I was in high school. He was highly attracted to lesbians because he felt they were "pure." As in untouched by another penis. He said if he were to ever get into a relationship he would want to convert a lesbian into his wife.
> 
> ...


I have never understood this fascination people of both genders have with virgins. 

I wanted to get rid of my virginity as soon as I could find a suitable partner and do it without fear of someone's parent caching me. I certainly never wanted to be with a virgin. There is absolutely nothing about innocence, inexperience, or purity that turns me on. Just the opposite.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think traditionally the concept of virginity was reserved for women. After all, we have the "Virgin Mary", but not the "Virgin Christ". 

This presumably stemmed from women losing their value as wives if there was some chance that they were pregnant by another man - and physical virginity (hymen) was used as an indication. 

I think the entire concept if archaic and biased, and wish it would all go away. People are free to use whatever definition they want for virginity - or none at all. Honestly, I've never really thought about it for myself.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

badsanta said:


> *So wait a minute... does this include ogling?*


*Ogling*











*Doing*


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's ogling, only if it happens to sexually turn any one of them on!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I agree with poster who said the question should be "What does it mean to be sexually active" instead of virgin. I was also the one who called the other poster hypocrite for doing everything but PIV. It is like eating a cookie and having a cookie.

It is easier to get annal sex with young girls from religious households, because they need to stay virgins. Virgin my ass. Whom are they trying to fool? You are not pure just because there is a small tissue intact in you, while had oral, anal, and whatever else the ragin hormones made you do instead.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> I agree with poster who said the question should be "What does it mean to be sexually active" instead of virgin. I was also the one who called the other poster hypocrite for doing everything but PIV. It is like eating a cookie and having a cookie.
> 
> It is easier to get annal sex with young girls from religious households, because they need to stay virgins. Virgin my ass. Whom are they trying to fool? *You are not pure just because there is a small tissue intact in you, while had oral, anal, and whatever else the ragin hormones made you do instead.*


And neither is the man/boy who stuck his penis in every other orifice except the one that can result in pregnancy!


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

When you're both naked on the living room floor and her dad walks in.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> I agree with poster who said the question should be "What does it mean to be sexually active" instead of virgin.


I think as a society that being "sexually active" is WAY MORE IMPORTANT information about someone you are dating than if they meet the religious/medical definition of being a virgin. 

I dated a few girls in college that were a "virgins," but they had already been sexually active with their previous boyfriends. 

One girlfriend told me that she allowed a previous boyfriend to briefly penetrate her just because she wanted to know what it was like, but other than that she did NOT want to do it again until she got married so that she could stay a virgin. In my mind that seemed as though she was sexually dysfunctional rather than a girl with good values. She never told me if it had felt good or bad, but only, "I do NOT do THAT!" I would have wanted to hear, "I really want to do that again, but feel like it is important to just wait for now."

For the record when I met my wife, she had never been sexually active with anyone else. While she was very religious, she did NOT feel like the idea of keeping her virginity until after marriage was important. She felt it was more important to save herself for the person she wanted to marry, and that the act of getting married was just a formality. I believe in her words she felt, "in the eyes of god your intentions are more important than your actions, and that you can already be married in the eyes of god without the formality of a church service." By the time I asked her father's blessing to get married to her, she was already taking both control and I had put a ring on that finger (although she kept this hidden from her parents until I formally asked their blessings, which was easy seeing as how they and the rest of her family lived on the other side of the planet).

The day I went to ask her father's blessing he was screaming through the house that, "if this boy is going to ask to marry you, you should send him hime right now because there is no way I will allow it!" Fortunately for me I never even flinched because they were all screaming in a language I did not understand. Upon asking her father, he gave me his blessings and admitted that they were scared to loose their daughter to living in another country. My wife then told me after that he had just been screaming for me to go home and that her father could not believe how brave I was!

Perhaps ignorance is bliss! 

Badsanta


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Might as well have some fun with this as I didn't see anyone else bring this up.

Today Virginity means nothing.

Loosing one's virginity is a state of mind. If a woman really wants to be a virgin for a special guy there are all kinds of things she can do.

There are lots of plastic surgeons who "remake women into virgins." Big money going into that. Personally, I don't understand why, but hell, if it is your thing, go for it. A story on its popularity:

Women Have Surgery to 'Restore' Virginity - ABC News

And for those with less money they are "other alternatives" on the market. Hymen Shop - Artificial Hymen for only $29.95 with FREE Worldwide Delivery! 

So maybe all those married mothers of 3 can have that special Valentines Day Role Playing date with their husband of 15 years and get him a virgin to have for the night.

Personally, I have enjoyed arousing and being aroused by women for over 50 years. The last person I would want to have sex with is a virgin. If I want to have sex with someone, I want them to have decades of sexual experience. :0--o[


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Might as well have some fun with this as I didn't see anyone else bring this up.
> 
> Today Virginity means nothing.
> 
> ...


Those hymen restoration clinic are mostly for women from strick religious backgrounds, often coming from Middle East cultures, that value virginity at the time of the marriage.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> Those hymen restoration clinic are mostly for women from strick religious backgrounds, often coming from Middle East cultures, that value virginity at the time of the marriage.


Actually some Asian countries as well. I think it is a horrible idea and a waste of money, but there is a market for this kind of thing.

Please see the following article Virginity in Different Cultures | Futurescopes.com


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Might as well have some fun with this as I didn't see anyone else bring this up.
> 
> There are lots of plastic surgeons who "remake women into virgins." Big money going into that. Personally, I don't understand why, but hell, if it is your thing, go for it. A story on its popularity:
> 
> Women Have Surgery to 'Restore' Virginity - ABC News


I remember when I was a kid there was a documentary that came on that I watched. It was about having babies, I was very young and knew nothing about it, no one was paying attention to what I was watching, so I tuned in! 

Essentially I think it was a 60 Minutes episode or something of that nature that was investigative reporting into a crime that had taken place. An OBGYN had come up with a "miracle procedure" to restore women's virginity after they gave birth. He performed this procedure arbitrarily on ALL his patients WITHOUT asking consent so that men would get newfound and restored pleasure from their wives once sexual activities resumed.

For the women however, sex would always be extremely painful and it took years to uncover what this OBGYN had done to many women. 

Being a young kid and perfectly innocent, I was so freaking upset that these women were in pain, particularly when they tried to make love to their husbands. 

Anyway, I'll throw this out there...

*Did my wife feel "different" after giving birth to our kids? YES

Do I now like it more or less? WAY MORE!! 

Would I describe it for people wanting to know? Well now, that would probably just be inappropriate wouldn't it!*

Badsanta


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> Those hymen restoration clinic are mostly for women from strick religious backgrounds, often coming from Middle East cultures, that value virginity at the time of the marriage.


And even so, restoring a hymen does not a virgin make. If a virgin is defined as someone who has not had sexual intercourse, all restoring a hymen can do is create the _appearance_ of virginity.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> I agree with poster who said the question should be "What does it mean to be sexually active" instead of virgin. I was also the one who called the other poster hypocrite for doing everything but PIV. It is like eating a cookie and having a cookie.
> 
> It is easier to get annal sex with young girls from religious households, because they need to stay virgins. Virgin my ass. Whom are they trying to fool? You are not pure just because there is a small tissue intact in you, while had oral, anal, and whatever else the ragin hormones made you do instead.


Bwahahaha!

Now I remember why I liked dating catholic school girls!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

marduk said:


> Bwahahaha!
> 
> Now I remember why I liked dating catholic school girls!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:wink2:

My experience with Catholic School Girls is that some were really hot and others wanted to be hot but were really hung-up and repressed.


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