# I think i'm done



## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

I love my wife but i'm tired. She refuses to communicate and if I ask her any question she starts playing all types of emotional games and always says idk. I have noticed she holds conversations with everyone except me and I am the last to know everything. If information comes to her, I wont get it until there is a problem and more often than not, i'm int he dark on all things. We have four children together. Ages 1.5, 5, 13, 16. I have tried all of the books, articles, and everything. I've gone to IC to be a better person, but she just is not receptive to anything and I always end up angry and frustrated after talking to her. Tonight we took the relationship inventory thingy on Dr. Harley's site and we read the section on quality time. As soon as it was time to discuss it, she changed all her answers to 4 and tried to clam up on me and started playing games. I refused to discuss mines at that point because it would have put me in a position to criticize her. So, I just took both papers and put them in my computer bag. Needless to say I was pissed. We are currently living in different places, so I just left. I was bitter and angry but didnt show it. Breaking it off permanently with her is not going to bring me any closure because of the games she plays. I am thinking about just leaving the state for a while to get me some bearings. I have known her for over 25 years and we have been together for about 20 years. Sex life is good, I am still attracted to her, but I get the silent treatment whenever she is wrong about anything and the she often tries to use all types of tactics to avoid dealing with anything relted to us. When I push away, she comes on strong only to revert back to the mess. Over the years, she has never wanted to use any of the books or tools that are available to improve the relationship. She will read something and then I ask her what she got out of it, and she says she doesnt have an opinion...TIRED...OF THE BULL...


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

I am kinda lost here. You are living in seperate places because you are seperated or is that your normal living arrangement? Why on gods green earth would you leave state when you have 4 children? Why would you walk away from them for any amount of time?


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> I am still attracted to her, but I get the silent treatment whenever she is wrong about anything and the she often tries to use all types of tactics to avoid dealing with anything relted to us. ...


What do you mean when she is WRONG about anything...


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ Uphillbattle, its a long story why we live in seperate places at this time, but we lost our house in the foreclosure mess and then got another place. Our arrangement after we got back together was that she handle the rent only, and I took care of daycare, car note, food, lights, insurance, etc....well let's just say she wasn't paying the rent and I never knew. I came home and there was a notice on my door and she just refused to talk about it and just said she messed up. So, I ended up moving in with a close friend and she is with her sister for the time being until we can find something else affordable. I am currently paying off the other apartment building the money she did pay them.

As far as my kids go, I love them dearly, but that has been a game of my wife's using my children against me in every way possible. I need to do some healing. She has her entire family where we live and they are good to and for her. I need to go where I can get peace of mind. I just don't want to be in the same community with her. We have major co-parenting issues because no matter what we jointly agree on, she will do something else...

@lisa3girls, whenever she is called to be accountable for something she gives me the silent treatment. For example, she went to a hotel room without my knowledge and i stumbled on to the key and she was like why are you making a big deal out of it. It was very noisey ay my sisters, I wanted to get some sleep so I went. The issue here is I would have never known if I hadnt stumbled on tot he key and when I questioned her about it, she just ignored me. I had spoken to her on the night in question and she didnt tell me anything. Like I said, no matter what she does, if you ask her a question even for clarification, silent treatment and refusal to communicate.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> @ Uphillbattle, its a long story why we live in seperate places at this time, but we lost our house in the foreclosure mess and then got another place. Our arrangement after we got back together was that she handle the rent only, and I took care of daycare, car note, food, lights, insurance, etc....well let's just say she wasn't paying the rent and I never knew. I came home and there was a notice on my door and she just refused to talk about it and just said she messed up. So, I ended up moving in with a close friend and she is with her sister for the time being until we can find something else affordable. I am currently paying off the other apartment building the money she did pay them.
> 
> As far as my kids go, I love them dearly, but that has been a game of my wife's using my children against me in every way possible. I need to do some healing. She has her entire family where we live and they are good to and for her. I need to go where I can get peace of mind. I just don't want to be in the same community with her. We have major co-parenting issues because no matter what we jointly agree on, she will do something else...
> 
> @lisa3girls, whenever she is called to be accountable for something she gives me the silent treatment. For example, she went to a hotel room without my knowledge and i stumbled on to the key and she was like why are you making a big deal out of it. It was very noisey ay my sisters, I wanted to get some sleep so I went. The issue here is I would have never known if I hadnt stumbled on tot he key and when I questioned her about it, she just ignored me. I had spoken to her on the night in question and she didnt tell me anything. Like I said, no matter what she does, if you ask her a question even for clarification, silent treatment and refusal to communicate.



I suspect your wife may be having an affair. Has this ever crossed your mind? Rather than outright lie to you, she doesn't speak to you at all. She's doing it for a purpose that at this time only serves her.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

This ain't a good situation. Are you sure you want to stay married to this? It sucks because there are kids involved. You can't be married to a person like that, unless she is actively working on those issues.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ abitmuch, all the signs are there. I mean all. But she is always at the house, RARELY missing or anything. Her phone bill doesn't reveal anything and I watch her very closely. If I discovered her having an affair, I could walk away and not look back because I would have my closure.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ Dadof3, I am trying my best to work to overcome, but i'm tired and it seems like I am the only one working. I am really on my last leg here...I just want to know in my heart of hearts that when I leave, I have done EVERYTHING in my power.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> @ abitmuch, all the signs are there. I mean all. But she is always at the house, RARELY missing or anything. Her phone bill doesn't reveal anything and I watch her very closely. If I discovered her having an affair, I could walk away and not look back because I would have my closure.


Women are better at hiding affairs IMO. Running off to a hotel out of the blue... money missing... I don't know what else you need to see, but her treatment of you and this marriage isn't out of nowhere. And you aren't watching THAT close, you don't even live together. She has all kinds of time to play.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ abitmuch, her sisters house is always full and she rarely leaves the house without my children. I have GPS on her phone, etc...I understand women are sneaky as you know what, but I cannot seem to find anything. If I do, I could walk away clean, and not look back...My 13 y/o also tracks my wife like crazy. I dont tell her to, but whenever she is out with me, my daughter will call her phone and asks her a ton of questions and she will often ask to speak to me to voice verify. So, all of these types of things make me wonder, BUT, it also tells me that it makes it hard for her to do anything. Lastly, he sister is very straight up and I am certain 100% that no mess takes place there or with her knowledge...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> @ abitmuch, her sisters house is always full and she rarely leaves the house without my children. I have GPS on her phone, etc...I understand women are sneaky as you know what, but I cannot seem to find anything. If I do, I could walk away clean, and not look back...My 13 y/o also tracks my wife like crazy. I dont tell her to, but whenever she is out with me, my daughter will call her phone and asks her a ton of questions and she will often ask to speak to me to voice verify. So, all of these types of things make me wonder, BUT, it also tells me that it makes it hard for her to do anything. Lastly, he sister is very straight up and I am certain 100% that no mess takes place there or with her knowledge...


And what about when your child is in school? What's your wife doing? How about when the kids are with you?

All I'm saying is to not dismiss that she's emotionally detached from you because she's emotionally attached to someone else. Whether it's physically or not, something has pulled her away from you.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

She could have a mental illness - maybe you should have her evaluated.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ Dadof3, the mental illness thing crossed my mind years ago. I am in the field. I looked in the DSM IV and she has a few signs of some things, but we all do. I dismissed the mental illness thought when I noticed she doesnt ignore others at the rate she does me. But she does act up with my children from time to time, which I likened to them being from me.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@ abitmuch, I see the kids over her sisters. Im there a great deal of the time, I just dont sleep there. My wife works when the kids are at school and her sister watches them. I am waiting for the opportunity to ask her where she is and have her lie to me according to whats on the GPS. Then, I will know something for sure. I can see everything that goes on in her cell phone from my computer and nothing appears to be going on in there. I am thinking of giving her another computer today to see if I can find out more. But as of right now, it just looks like stress, lots of resentment and wanting someone to blame and target for her anger and general unhappiness. I never ruled out an affair because all of the signs are there, just no evidence. Even other things I see her do. BUT, a good friend of mine said its more like mind games and control issues because she is always at home when she does most of the crazy stuff....


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> @ abitmuch, I see the kids over her sisters. Im there a great deal of the time, I just dont sleep there. My wife works when the kids are at school and her sister watches them. I am waiting for the opportunity to ask her where she is and have her lie to me according to whats on the GPS. Then, I will know something for sure. I can see everything that goes on in her cell phone from my computer and nothing appears to be going on in there. I am thinking of giving her another computer today to see if I can find out more. But as of right now, it just looks like stress, lots of resentment and wanting someone to blame and target for her anger and general unhappiness. I never ruled out an affair because all of the signs are there, just no evidence. Even other things I see her do. BUT, a good friend of mine said its more like mind games and control issues because she is always at home when she does most of the crazy stuff....


What if she's conducting all the sneaky stuff at work... on her work computer, on her work phone...not going into work every single day...

Anyway. I'll let it alone. You're so sure this isn't it. Whatever she's doing, the bottom line is she's checked out of your marriage. You think you're done? Sounds like she's been done for a long time.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

@abitmuch, I suspect work. She sometimes stays over for an extra hour, i'm not convinced she isn't doing anything, I am convinced that I cannot catch her. She goes to work when she says because there is GPS on her cell phone and her car and she is a cell phone guard. I agree that she has checked out. Thing is, when I leave her alone for a few days, she comes back sweating me and then when I start talking to her again, same BS. That's the emotional stuff that affairs entail because people are emotionally dependent on two people and when one is acting up, the go tot he other one.


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## alive (Oct 4, 2011)

Whether your wife is having an affair or not, is not the issue. You can only control your own behavior. And if your changing does not create a positive change in her behavior, you are left little choice. It takes two to make a marriage work.


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

I am lost too. Why would you leave the state?

You sound like a very needy guy. Reading your post I picked up two things: you love your wife and the sex is still good. 

Four children? That is great! They all need their dad! Don't blow this! I am a dad, three kids. I know one thing, I would never move away from my kids.

Don't get all caught up in all the emotional crap with all these books and relationship surveys. Start acting like a dad. Focus on your children and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

If your wife is ignoring you she is doing it for a reason. You sound like a pain in the a##.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Ok I am not saying she is cheating, but do you call her while she is at work? Do you know that she has not left her phone there knowing she has a gps on it? Do you see her checks? If she wasn't paying the rent, it doesn't mean the money dissapeared. What stopps her from taking half a day off or a full day off and going to a motel while leaving her phone in her car. If she knows you are watching and is well aware of how you are watching there are ways around almost anything. Even less easy to check, whose to say she isn't going in the bosses office to polish his knob? 
Also whats to stop her from going out after the kids are asleep and leaving the phone there? Are you 100% her sister wouldn't look out for her in this situation?
The only way you are going to be 100% sure is to hire a p.i. and have him work on it for a week. Probibly cost a little bit more than a new p.c. but if she is cheating they WILL find out.


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

Sorry loveforlife

Only read your original post. Did not realize she went to a hotel and was question came up with a lame excuse.

Anyway, do not leave the state. Focus on being a dad. Be firm with her, she has a lot to loose here.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

loverforlife said:


> @abitmuch, I suspect work. She sometimes stays over for an extra hour, i'm not convinced she isn't doing anything, I am convinced that I cannot catch her. She goes to work when she says because there is GPS on her cell phone and her car and she is a cell phone guard. I agree that she has checked out. Thing is, when I leave her alone for a few days, she comes back sweating me and then when I start talking to her again, same BS. That's the emotional stuff that affairs entail because people are emotionally dependent on two people and when one is acting up, the go tot he other one.


Why are you tracking her like a hawk? I think that's interesting. GPS on her phone etc... you don't trust her for a reason.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

It sounds like you are married to a manipulative narcissist. She seems to have no empathy or conscience and her manipulative nature and using the kids against you are all hallmarks of people with narcissistic personality disorder. If she does have this, it is very unlikely that she will change. People with NPD lack self awareness and empathy so they can never see how they do anything wrong and they don't care anyway. 

I don't recommend leaving your kids because she will just poison them against you. But I don't think you have much hope for the marriage (and I don't say that often) because people with NPD don't do therapy and don't have much, if any, capacity to change. That is one of the hallmarks of the disorder, too.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Just saying. My wife's father is NPD. Her mother couldn't stand it anymore and left out of state. She didn't see her agian until she was 32. During her absense all he ever did was beat her, abuse her, humillate her, and molest her. My wife now has a slew of problems, because her mother just left and wanted to get away from him. Just sayin.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for all of your positive feedback. Me leaving is not a completely permanent thing, but I need to put some space btween her and I. I have family out of state and a support system there. This has been going on for a long time and I just need to heal. After that, back to being father of the year.

Someone said I am needy. Far from, but when you are married, you want to know what's going on around you and if wanting to be included in activities and made aware of things is needy, I guess I am.

I started all the snooping because of the sneakiness. I dont know anything if I dont get it from my snooping, everything is a secret. So, there are trust issues based on this...

I also looked at NPD as it relates to her and it fits very closely to how she behaves. BUT, the anger and bullmess seems to only be targeting me.

As far as her sister goes, she is not going for any mess. She wouldn't cover for anything. She would tell her to terminate the marriage and stop playing games, that I am 100% sure of. 

As far as it being the boss, nope, it would have to be a co-worker. I have long suspected something going on there because she doesn't talk about work, rarelyt if she does and she once mentioned one of the male co-workers, bot never again.

Overall, she is extremely secretive, period, point blank. That is power related, no information, no power.


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## cyrene (Oct 19, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Why are you tracking her like a hawk? I think that's interesting. GPS on her phone etc... you don't trust her for a reason.


After reading this thread I thought I'd chime in. Loverforlife, my husband tracks me similarly, and it makes me feel absolutely overwhelmed. He keeps track of the odometer, keeps track of every minute I'm out of the house, always says I'm gone longer than I am, calls me continually, etc.

Like your wife, I shut down with my husband. He's been in my face so many times over the years that I feel like no matter what I say, it's gonna be wrong and I'm going to pay. He's mastered the art of brow-beating.

I've offered to take a polygraph, but he won't accept. He'd rather keep accusing me of infidelity...do you know it's impossible to prove you're faithful to your spouse? Think about it. He used to wake up in the morning and claim the car had moved...again, no way to prove it didn't.

Hubby also has selective hearing...and believing. He'll only hear what he want's and believe what he wants. Makes me realize we all have our own realities...do you share the same reality with your wife?

My point is: there's a reason she's withdrawn from you. Look carefully at how you approach her. Is the way you question her making her feel defensive? How controling are you of her? (Questions to ask yourself...no need to reply.)

Why do we stay once we feel so disconnected? In my case, it's because of the kids. Can't see how me having to work two jobs to support them would make me a good mother. Can't say it would be better for them to grow up without supervision than to grow up in house with constant bickering (he bickers, I shut up). 

I totally get wanting to get away, though. I'm so burnt out on my husband at this point that all I want is him to stay away from me. The weird thing is that when he comes in the room I can't stand his presence (seriously...the anxiety he creates in me drowns me)...but when he's out of my presense, I can imagine everything working out. Maybe I'm in love with what "could be" rather than what I actually have.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

My wife doesn't like accountability period. I pick and choose what I address so that I am sure not to be picking on her. But she is always defensive prior to her being asked anything. She doesn't like being asked anything. It's a control issue with her, not with me. I think she would be shut down with anyman she is in a relationship with due to her past.


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

Lastly, there is a big difference between general and mutual respect versus controlling someone. When you are married to someone, you have to answer to them and that applies to husbands and wive's.....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

loverforlife said:


> My wife doesn't like accountability period. I pick and choose what I address so that I am sure not to be picking on her. But she is always defensive prior to her being asked anything. She doesn't like being asked anything. It's a control issue with her, not with me. I think she would be shut down with anyman she is in a relationship with due to her past.


What's in her past?


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## loverforlife (Oct 18, 2011)

One bad boyfriend who was jealous and fought her, and an attempted rape and father left shortly after her mother died at 12. She has done several things to push me away. I'm really close to being out of the door this time...


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