# Dear Chump Lady, I lost the moral high ground when I told people my wife was cheating



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

This POS WW sounds like a piece of work doesn't she?

__________________________________________

Dear Chump Lady, I lost the moral high ground when I told people my wife was cheating

August 22, 2016 by @chumplady
*
Dear Chump Lady,

I had some feedback for you about something you might not have thought about discussing before. My wife had an affair with another man both online and mostly in person. Secret vacations together, lots of time spent “helping” his family, etc…

At one point after the affair was discovered, I was in the moral right. Especially when she still continued to see him under the guide of “hoping to quietly wrap it up without his older and frail wife” finding out.

I LOST the moral upper hand when I told too many people about it, including a couple of her friends and some of her family members. Now we are in counseling and most of the time spent (even with a counselor I chose and trust) is about HOW I REACTED. It would be much easier to be me right now if I had chosen only a couple of people to confide in. That would mean that we would be dealing with HER issues and how she can show real remorse and repair the damage she caused, and she would not be able to always come back and say how I hurt her by telling what happened.

Just a thought that might benefit some of your audience. Thank you.

P.S. I should add that the counselor we are seeing feels that my telling people was me wanting to punish her, which is somehow related to a lot of bullying I experienced as a kid. I don’t doubt that is PART of it, I just wish I had not told so that we could focus instead on why this happened and why she continues to lie about what actually happened.

Chumped and Talked*

Dear Chumped,

Her cheating and your telling are not equivalent. This isn’t about the “moral high ground” — this is about her leading a double life, endangering your health and children’s intact family life to go on ****-fest holidays with Mr. Sparkle****. She betrayed you. She abused you. And she’s not one bit sorry because she’s still lying to you.

Your counselor is an idiot. I’m sorry you chose an idiot. I once chose a mechanic to fix my brakes and you know what? I drove to work and my brakes failed. Did I keep driving a car with faulty breaks? No. I got a new mechanic. Get a new counselor.


(read the rest here)


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I think ChumpLady had it right, the counselor is the real piece of work. Not excusing the WW in any way. But once again what we see is yet another example of "Nice Guy" man, feeling he has at fault (ceded the moral high ground) and taking the blame. heck he even conceded to try counseling with her after she continued cheating. Rather than telling the guy to grow a pair and toss her back, the counselor feeds on his guilt by making it about him.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh lordy...yet another sad sack who's too cowardly to man up and take charge of the situation. Instead, he helplessly cries into his Cheerios while she CONTINUES seeing her affair partner and then he allows his WW and her 'therapist' to beat him up for 'telling too many people.'

Where are they breeding these gutless wonders, anyway? Some remote farm in Iowa?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Well, truly it is best to keep the knowledge to her parents if she has them, the managers at her job if it is legal and where the affair took place, her church pastor if she has one, and maybe very few others. If you aren't seeking reconciliation, it really doesn't matter unless it is illegal somehow to tell the truth. 

If she didn't think what she did was wrong, she wouldn't care what others think. 

She really isn't worth the worry or the guilt others want to place on the BS, and it shows how society is accepting adultery and infidelity in marriage when they point the finger at the one who was betrayed. 

If it goes on for a long time or to many folks, it does tend to make the BS look bad, but if he or she isn't concerned about finding another mate, it really doesn't matter. 

Who cares if it hurts her/him? They didn't care when they slept with someone else. Though, I think they expect a BS spouse to understand that they had to do it because they were hurt so badly when they didn't receive any kind of loving kindness, or at least the amount they believe they deserve. 

The trouble I always seem to have with that is, they actually didn't deserve the loving kindness they think they did. Why? Because they were fishing for an AP for quite a while in many instances before they decided they were angry and hurt enough to do something bad enough to really really hurt their spouse. It is premeditated and intentionally done to either knock their spouse down to a level beneath them or to raise themselves to a higher level than they believe he is. It's all about control. When they lose control, they get it back. It's not violent. In many cases, there isn't even a bad word spoken to the BS. It's all in the minds of the WS. They are basically wired wrong, in my opinion.

So, when they go to the next partner, just know they are getting someone who isn't mature or knowledgeable enough to know how to address difficult situations before they allow them to get to the point of explosion and scorched earth. What a prize they got!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> I LOST the moral upper hand when I told too many people about it, including a couple of her friends and some of her family members. Now we are in counseling and most of the time spent (even with a counselor I chose and trust) is about HOW I REACTED. It would be much easier to be me right now if I had chosen only a couple of people to confide in. That would mean that we would be dealing with HER issues and how she can show real remorse and repair the damage she caused, and she would not be able to always come back and say how I hurt her by telling what happened.


I'm not going to argue exposure or moral high ground. His counselor is terrible.

Here's what I find interesting. She cheated, but all they do is mostly talk about what he did wrong? This counselor allows his wife to say, "but you hurt me by telling people." They talk about how he told too many people. Yet, they don't deal with the underlying issues of an affair and they convinced him her hurt is more important than his....Wow. False equivalency, one of the most insidious logical fallacies on the planet.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm not going to argue exposure or moral high ground. His counselor is terrible.
> 
> Here's what I find interesting. She cheated, but all they do is mostly talk about what he did wrong? This counselor allows his wife to say, "but you hurt me by telling people." They talk about how he told too many people. Yet, they don't deal with the underlying issues of an affair and they convinced him her hurt is more important than his....Wow. False equivalency, one of the most insidious logical fallacies on the planet.


Many, many counselors blame the BS for the infidelity. Then, they tell them they were responsible for taking care of the needs of their wives. There is little emphasis on responsibility for the WS. They seem to believe that those cheating wives are only reacting to feelings of hurt and pain. They ask, "What did you think would happen when you didn't move that chair upstairs immediately after she asked"? 

"But, I had to poop! I would have soiled myself", he might say. 

"Oh, come on, Mr. Poopy Pants. You mean you aren't man enough to hold it for the few minutes it would take to carry that chair upstairs", the counselor may query? 

"I had to go! It was like a turtle coming out of it's shell!", he'd exclaim.

Then she might ask, "Do you really believe you had to go that bad or were you just being passive aggressive and controlling"?

And further, "You show a pattern of passive aggressive and controlling behavior. For example, when you used the last portion of milk on your cereal and didn't offer it to your wife".


I know I went a little overboard there. Okay, a lot overboard. > :laugh:


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Dude needs a new counselor.

Also needs a new spine, a new sack, and a new wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

I can't Believe that he even listen to that crap the first time around. The second anyone I don't care who it was Doctor, Judge, president Of the USA, I don't care I would've told them to go f"ck himself, got up and left and were headed right to the courthouse and file for D... But we all know reason why this guy is in this situation in the first place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

All the time you hear/read "people" talk about how a marriage is about give and take. Bullsh!t. Be honest with yourself... it's really a "Balance of Power". Chump's cheating wife more than likely owned the BoP in that marriage. Her cheating and then rubbing it in his nose without remorse just another example. Even after being caught she is turning the tables with how YOU hurt me with exposure to tip the scales back.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I agree his counselor is a moron. Chump Lady for president!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sparta said:


> I can't Believe that he even listen to that crap the first time around. The second anyone I don't care who it was Doctor, Judge, president Of the USA, I don't care I would've told them to go f"ck himself, got up and left and were headed right to the courthouse and file for D... But we all know reason why this guy is in this situation in the first place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe it as society has shifted. Let's be real, society has become more forgiving in nature. We have alleged rapists, spousal abusers, drug addicts, alleged murderers and others running around still making money. We allow people multiple chances until, they do something so horrendous it can't be excused. Then we blame the drugs, alcohol, society, enablers and not the person.

Heck, we see it on TAM in our angrier threads. You know, where balancing the blame for an affair is accepted, but divorce first is a negative mantra. You know the constant refrain of reconciliation strong hard work, divorce is easy and the cowards way out.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I believe it as society has shifted. Let's be real, society has become more forgiving in nature. We have alleged rapists, spousal abusers, drug addicts, alleged murderers and others running around still making money. We allow people multiple chances until, they do something so horrendous it can't be excused. Then we blame the drugs, alcohol, society, enablers and not the person.
> 
> Heck, we see it on TAM in our angrier threads. You know, where balancing the blame for an affair is accepted, but divorce first is a negative mantra. You know the constant refrain of *reconciliation strong hard work, divorce is easy and the cowards way out*.


I agree. 

Isn't it really ironic and almost humorous that they proclaim that, when the easier hard work would have been to do something about their marriage before they cheated? 

The truth is, the easy way out was already taken....infidelity due to issues they let go too long to handle. 

Divorce is easier than reconciliation, but it's also a consequence. 

We don't like responsibilities or consequences anymore.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> If it goes on for a long time or to many folks, it does tend to make the BS look bad, but if he or she isn't concerned about finding another mate, it really doesn't matter.


I understand what you are saying but this double standard drives me nuts...the WS especially those who has LTA of 2, 3, years or more gets to abuse and debase their BS but if the BS has a response that is too strong suddenly they dont look good? The WS breaks all the rules, gets to fvck around but now some rules of civility must be obeyed when dealing with them? I'm for whatever the Bs needs to do to heal...I really wonder what the hell good this mythical "moral high ground" really is..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> All the time you hear/read "people" talk about how a marriage is about give and take. Bullsh!t. Be honest with yourself... it's really a *"Balance of Power"*. Chump's cheating wife more than likely owned the BoP in that marriage. Her cheating and then rubbing it in his nose without remorse just another example. Even after being caught she is turning the tables with how YOU hurt me with exposure to tip the scales back.


This is an interesting point and is rarely discussed...how many reconciliations which always involve the BS dutifully eating their sh!t sandwich even going so far as to take some of the blame for the WS's affair is due to a power imbalance in their relationship...Does the Bs feel he or she can not do better? Do they somehow feel less than their WS? Is their an imbalance int he looks department (which I would guess is mainly a BH and WW scenairo)? It is an interesting point to discuss...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Sparta said:


> I can't Believe that he even listen to that crap the first time around. The second anyone I don't care who it was Doctor, Judge, president Of the USA, I don't care I would've told them to go f"ck himself, got up and left and were headed right to the courthouse and file for D... But we all know reason why this guy is in this situation in the first place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed...he does seem to lack a spine..he should have fired the therapist and then fired his wife...lets be honest when one reconciles the Ws is getting away with it to a certain extent - just the nature of cheating I guess...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> I agree his counselor is a moron. Chump Lady for president!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


 @chumpady 2016 "making adultery unacceptable again" >


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @chumpady 2016 "making adultery unacceptable again" >



That campaign slogan needs an asterisk at the end saying:

*unless your faithful husband is a {supposed} sex withholding mentally ill hoarder like chumpcheaterlady's first husband


~just keeping it reals


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Dude needs a new counselor.
> 
> Also needs a new spine, a new sack, and a new wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He does have quite the shopping list...I dont know how he sat there and took it but then againt here are a lot of men like him in the world..as far as I'[m concerned he knows the truth whatever bullsh!t comes his way now is on him - he is CHOOSING to say with her...I find it hard to have sympathy for somone who stays and gets burned again or is miserable with their life - after dday if you choose to stay then whatever happens is on the BS


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh lordy...yet another sad sack who's too cowardly to man up and take charge of the situation. Instead, he helplessly cries into his Cheerios while she CONTINUES seeing her affair partner and then he allows his WW and her 'therapist' to beat him up for 'telling too many people.'
> 
> Where are they breeding these gutless wonders, anyway? Some remote farm in Iowa?


My bet is after therapy, he goes into the bathroom and has a good cry.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Quality said:


> That campaign slogan needs an asterisk at the end saying:
> 
> *unless your faithful husband is a {supposed} sex withholding mentally ill hoarder like chumpcheaterlady's first husband
> 
> ...


What does this mean? Did chumplady cheat on her first husband? How many times has she been married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't think he lost the moral high ground by telling people, but he lost his morals by staying with her! 
What's the point in telling then? 
Everybody will think he's weak & desperate now, even the counsellor & wife have zero respect for him. 
Respect is earned when you stand firm on your morals. 
Just my opinion. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh lordy...yet another sad sack who's too cowardly to man up and take charge of the situation. Instead, he helplessly cries into his Cheerios while she CONTINUES seeing her affair partner and then he allows his WW and her 'therapist' to beat him up for 'telling too many people.'
> 
> Where are they breeding these gutless wonders, anyway? Some remote farm in Iowa?




Because we are seeing so many of them, I think they are being mass produced in factories. In Iowa.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Exposure does not make him look very secure in himself, at least imo. It is like screaming to the whole world that he did not have influence on his wife all by himself. He had to try to get it through other people.

He could have just divorced her quietly, if he wanted to go the divorce route. But since he wants to reconcile, he might want to take what the counselor is saying into consideration.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Quality said:


> ~just keeping it reals


I wish you did. Let me know when you finally produce the proof post, to support these claims about her cheating, like the one you did for Maxo/bongo. You said you would show us all and I am still waiting.
kthxby.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Wanted to give my thoughts on this. I'm not saying they are correct or the only way, but different in some areas. I think it is important to present both sides of an argument. It's how I find help to make choices for my life. 




jld said:


> Exposure does not make him look very secure in himself, at least imo.


Nothing wrong with having a different opinion. None of us are the same. 

My thoughts are that it(infidelity) was an act of revenge for perceived injustices that the WS could not figure out how to handle maturely.

When reconciliation is in the back of the mind of the WS, infidelity is a very poor choice. After all, it is controlling in nature based upon the hopes that the BS will conform to the ideals of the WS. I don't think that WS is a good candidate for a marriage. Even the bible does not condone this kind of thing. I added that because I've gotten the impression you are some sort of believer, from some of your posts.

When divorce is the goal, there really is no reason to have an affair. Love is gone. There is only anger and sometimes hate. Which, as we know, is not the opposite of love. 

Therefore, the only reason to go wayward is to hurt their spouse deeply. The only way that works is if it is a surprise, which has to include deception skills of the highest order in many cases. 

I find infidelity to be extreme control and abuse for those reasons. 



jld said:


> It is like screaming to the whole world that he did not have influence on his wife all by himself. He had to try to get it through other people.


In many cases, I think proclaiming it to all is a form of revenge.

Limited exposure to those who might have the most impact in the confused mind of the wayward spouse would seem necessary to break bonds formed by chemicals during sex. That sex and those bonds formed with someone other than the spouse.

Of course, this will only work when the wayward spouse truly did make a mistake. It will also work with those wayward spouses who had reconciliation in mind and used the infidelity for control. 

I think it is even against what the bible recommends as best, to love someone back to the marriage(I don't think we were meant to love someone back to a marriage. I think we were to let them go. There is more, but that's all I remember without doing a search). It(loving someone back to their personal vows and marriage) allows more control of the BS and the marriage. Truly, no one should control their spouse. I think it happens back and forth in many marriages. It's subtle. It's there. 

As an example, sometimes a woman will cry with real tears when she really is just in need of help from her husband and doesn't want to admit she is the cause of her own troubles. She knows she can easily manipulate and control him this way when he loves her and believes she is an innocent child-like woman who only wants peace and love in the world. 

I guess some folks refuse to accept responsibility for their own poor choices? 



jld said:


> He could have just divorced her quietly, if he wanted to go the divorce route.


He could have, but then other men would be hurt and possibly harmed by her lies and unfaithfulness. These folks don't change. Some may not cheat again. Most will. Many will find another way of getting the revenge and personal satisfaction they got through infidelity. 



jld said:


> But since he wants to reconcile, he might want to take what the counselor is saying into consideration.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Some do, but all he'd really have to do is believe his unfaithful spouse and do as she says. The counselor in this instance is simply strengthening the resolve of the WS that cheating is the best way to handle issues in a marriage that she cannot figure out or that she does not want to take responsibility for and make changes to herself. 

If the WS changes, it is tantamount to admitting guilt, poor decision making abilities, control issues, a penchant for revenge through infidelity, an indifference to telling and living lies, a lack of ethical beliefs, etc. I think that makes my point. 


In conclusion, I really think there are only a few instances where it is positively productive for the marriage to expose. I think those circumstances *bely*(wrong word. i'm sorry. should have been '*support*') the fact that there is a need for exposure for the greater good for some. 

I will consider other opinions, but I haven't yet found any that seem to prove me mistaken enough to change my mind.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> I don't think he lost the moral high ground by telling people, but he lost his morals by staying with her!
> What's the point in telling then?
> Everybody will think he's weak & desperate now, even the counsellor & wife have zero respect for him.
> Respect is earned when you stand firm on your morals.
> ...


Exposure in no way cedes the moral high ground - it is one of he consequences of being a cheater...although I will admit there are so few today...that is the problem cheaters hate consequences for their actions...they dont miss the chance to parade around as "co-victims" with their BS..they are not victims but perpetrators..

I have no problem with nuclear exposure - so the WS really feels it - the BS walks away with mind movies, self worth issues, etc and the WS might feel "bad" occasionally - big deal - they did the real damage they deserve real consequences..


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## nolight (Aug 20, 2016)

It's their marriage story so he has every right to tell anyone whom he thinks fit to listen, anyway the guy seriously needs to leave. His wife sounds like a real piece of work and that counselor has the victim-blaming attitude to the tee. I have sympathy for this guy because he said he was bullied at school now he ended with crappy wife who bully him to in one way.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

nolight said:


> It's their marriage story so he has every right to tell anyone whom he thinks fit to listen, anyway the guy seriously needs to leave. His wife sounds like a real piece of work and that counselor has the victim-blaming attitude to the tee. I have sympathy for this guy because he said he was bullied at school now he ended with crappy wife who bully him to in one way.


A BS does need to get her / his story out there. Otherwise, people will judge the BS on the basis of what WS has told them.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> ...the BS walks away with mind movies, self worth issues, etc and the WS might feel "bad" occasionally - big deal - they did the real damage they deserve real consequences..


You see this nonsense all the time on the Reconciliation boards out there. Even YEARS later, BS's are *still* trying to find a way to swallow yet another bite of that life-long sh*t sandwich they signed up for when they agreed to reconcile.

One or two years later the BS's are still creeping on the OW or OM's Facebook page desperately trying to find clues that their WS might still be involved with them, or posting that 3 years into 'recovery' they're STILL monitoring their cheater's cell phone/email/Facebook/Instagram/tablet/PC/Google locations/browser history and on and on and on, and have discovered via the GPS they slapped on their cheater's car that he/she is in an area they shouldn't be in, and the pitiful list just goes on and on. Taking away the 'permission' for a WS to go out for drinks with coworkers after work or not 'allowing' them to talk to members of the opposite sex without their permission, and one particularly pitiful BW asking others for creative ways to deal with all the "Anti-versaries" she's now stuck having to observe (birthdays, holidays, etc.) that her cheating husband soiled during his affair. One woman even found some kind of 'chastity' device her husband had to start wearing after she caught him cheating. 

Really, is *THIS* the life one wants to lead in the name of reconciliation? Policing your spouse's every move, dictating who they're allowed to talk to, 'forbidding' porn, deciding what social functions they're allowed to attend, monitoring their every move with a GPS in their car, and for some, having to resort to a post-nup which dictates the WS loses pretty much everything financially in the hopes that the FEAR of going broke will keep their cheaters' pants zipped?

Divorce isn't the 'easy' way out. It's the ONLY way out if you want to retain your dignity and self respect.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> Therefore, the only reason to go wayward is to hurt their spouse deeply. The only way that works is if it is a surprise, which has to include deception skills of the highest order in many cases.


Eh, no. Or at least, not in all or even most cases. 

You are assigning intentions to waywards.

Many, many of them do not do so to hurt their spouse, but rather they are simply not thinking of their spouse at all; only themselves. They are prioritizing their own pleasure. While @ConanHub was crude when he would say waywards were "thinking with their crotch", he wasn't far off.

Additionally, many think they will never be caught, so they think their spouse will be spared the pain.

Lastly, it is an escape from reality. In that world of escape, all that is thought of is the fantasy.

None of these have anything to do with punishing the BS.

As for exposure, I believe exposure should be far and wide if you intend to reconcile, and should be limited if the intent is to divorce, at least until the divorce is finalized.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Eh, no. Or at least, not in all or even most cases.
> 
> You are assigning intentions to waywards.
> 
> ...


I am assigning intentions to waywards. Just as saying they are intending to get physical pleasure from sex with someone other than their spouse does. 



Considering the possibility they don't think about their BS makes me want to think they are simple minded. 



I agree that some don't have a conscience. 



Some have already considered their situation to be untenable and decided to make a change in their life. 



What is one common general excuse? Needs were not met. I admit it is not always needs were not met. 



Believing they will not get caught only means they considered that they might. Therefore, they thought about it. 

Bonding makes those decisions seem unimportant and they are forgotten. 




Revenge is not always about punishing. 

Look at passive aggressive behavior for an example. It really isn't about punishing. It's about getting even. 

In cases where, as you stated, they don't think they will be caught and aren't, it's about leveling the playing field in their mind and heart. The can go back to their spouse with a better attitude and more patience, when the infidelity is unknown to the BS.



Punishment puts me in mind of consequences like fines and jail sentences for breaking laws. Those are not about getting even. They are simply consequences that are not meant to be pleasurable, to deter the criminal and maybe others. 

If laws were meant to get even, they'd do the same to the criminal as they did when they broke the law and harmed, tortured, raped, or killed someone.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I feel bad for this guy. He is the product of modern day progressive thinking.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I feel bad for this guy. He is the product of modern day progressive thinking.


Funny, though, I find in a lot of situations the advice to "keep your head", "don't be a snitch" and so on is advised. Ironically, quite often the very people who give that advice are the ones who expressly don't follow it and /or honor what snitching /gossiping that they do receive from others.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Funny, though, I find in a lot of situations the advice to "keep your head", "don't be a snitch" and so on is advised. Ironically, quite often the very people who give that advice are the ones who expressly don't follow it and /or honor what snitching /gossiping that they do receive from others.


Exposing the truth, especially when the lies are doing damage to your reputation and self worth is not snitching. Not in the least bit.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Eh, no. Or at least, not in all or even most cases.
> 
> You are assigning intentions to waywards.
> 
> ...


I'd say if "many think they will never be caught, so they think their spouse will be spared the pain" it backs exactly what 2ntnuf stated. This group, which is many by your own words, knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care. To me that is intent. 

So, I will disagree with your assertion at the beginning. I'd argue Many do not believe the damage it will do, but "many, many" more intended to cheat knowing what it may do.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

The only way you can lose the "Moral High Ground" with a cheater is so lower yourself to their level. I am not even talking about a revenge affiar. That is just a form of payback, not a great idea, but I get it.

No, to match a cheater you have to go full on gutter ball. Go get into a new relationship. Build trust. Then with no thought toward your partner...sleep with someone else. And lie about it. Then you will have lost the Moral High Ground.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

> _I LOST the moral upper hand when I told too many people about it. Now we are in counseling and most of the time spent (even with a counselor I chose and trust) is about HOW I REACTED. ~ if I had chosen only a couple of people to confide in. That would mean that we would be dealing with HER issues and how she can show real remorse and repair the damage she caused, and she would not be able to always come back and say how I hurt her by telling what happened.
> 
> P.S. ~ I just wish I had not told so that we could focus instead on why this happened and why she continues to lie about what actually happened._


WTF?! Grow some balls and get another therapist. Yours is dumbass.
Her feelings are hurt? Boo-F-HOO!!

By outed her so, you help KEEP her from lying to others about what happened!! As long as SHE is lying about the affair - there is NO remorse and you're screwing yourself. The whole thing is a waste of your time. Divorce her and dump the useless therapist.

When I outed my WW, it was ugly. I did it wrong, but I don't care about it. Other than I wish I did it properly. So I pissed off people on both sides, oh well. But my WW was saying there was no affair, etc, etc.

Obviously, there was an affair, and she can admit what she did. She had/has to tell her family, that she *DID* cheat and all the public drama and embarrassment was on her.

How much time *WE* spend on this subject in therapy / ourselves?
I think about 10 minutes total. Period, we moved on. If she didn't cheat - I wouldn't have posted a damn thing. That's it.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

I had read this on CL and I couldn't believe a BS would worry about exposing a **** wife. I exposed my WW far and wide and for like 6 months strait. I even told the my daughters teachers - I told everyone and sent the texts along for evidence.

I don't feel I lost any moral high ground. 
My wife acted like a cheating **** and I let people know.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'd say if "many think they will never be caught, so they think their spouse will be spared the pain" it backs exactly what 2ntnuf stated. This group, which is many by your own words, knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care. To me that is intent.
> 
> So, I will disagree with your assertion at the beginning. I'd argue Many do not believe the damage it will do, but "many, many" more intended to cheat knowing what it may do.


Many believe if caught their spouse would be "p!ssed" off and there will be damage - I've read that more than once - in fact I think a WS once posted that here I cant remember where - but are shocked at the extent of the damage done by being a cheater...I recently read a case where the affair was in the marriage bed and the WS knew the BS would be p!ssed but since the marriage was so goodthe Bs would forgive the indiscretion..cheaters are selfish and self involved - if you ever read their posts their worldview is astounding...see I agree cheaters know they are doing some form of damage but even they are sometimes shocked at the extent..

I think cheaters know this will hurt their BS and any who say I had no clue are full of sh!t..they really are..they play with fire and then whine when they get burned..the only thing that would really cue a cheater in is if they are betrayed at some point.I have come to that conclusion..all their talk of empathy and feeling "bad" is nothing compared to what they have done to the BS..nothing...and if one more cheater says "we punish ourselves" we dont need anymore..well you also punished your Bs and they didnt need it in the first place...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TaDor said:


> WTF?! Grow some balls and get another therapist. Yours is dumbass.
> Her feelings are hurt? Boo-F-HOO!!
> 
> By outed her so, you help KEEP her from lying to others about what happened!! As long as SHE is lying about the affair - there is NO remorse and you're screwing yourself. The whole thing is a waste of your time. Divorce her and dump the useless therapist.
> ...





higgsb said:


> I had read this on CL and I couldn't believe a BS would worry about exposing a **** wife. I exposed my WW far and wide and for like 6 months strait. I even told the my daughters teachers - I told everyone and sent the texts along for evidence.
> 
> I don't feel I lost any moral high ground.
> My wife acted like a cheating **** and I let people know.


I say the Bs needs to do what they need to do to heal..fvck worrying abut the moral high ground IMO...you read posts with BSs still struggling years out..what purpose does worrying about the moral high ground serve?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Punishment puts me in mind of consequences like fines and jail sentences for breaking laws. Those are not about getting even. They are simply consequences that are not meant to be pleasurable, to deter the criminal and maybe others.
> 
> If laws were meant to get even, they'd do the same to the criminal as they did when they broke the law and harmed, tortured, raped, or killed someone.





stillthinking said:


> The only way you can lose the "Moral High Ground" with a cheater is so lower yourself to their level. I am not even talking about a revenge affiar. That is just a form of payback, not a great idea, but I get it.
> 
> No, to match a cheater you have to go full on gutter ball. Go get into a new relationship. Build trust. Then with no thought toward your partner...sleep with someone else. And lie about it. Then you will have lost the Moral High Ground.


I think the thing cheaters fear the most are the consequences for their affair - they dont like it and for anyone to imply exposure is somehow cruel or unusual are misguided in my opinion. I get the need for the BS to feel the cheater got some consequences for their actions - some comeuppance for their misdeeds - I get exposure, informing the OBS even an RA because I think the Bs needs to feel they are not walking away as the only one with the consequences to live with for the rest of their lives. And all this talk about cheaters "punishing themselves" is a bit overdone - you saw it fit to punish many other human beings by cheating and now in the light of dday you get to "punish" yourself - yeah ok? Any Bs who buys that one needs to look into buying a bridge somewhere in Brooklyn....


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

My WW didn't think about the consequences of her affair. Just that she could drink and F... and that I would be pissed and get over it. 
But as my anger grew, so did her desire to leave.

So in her word in general: drinking, having sex with a 21yr old boy who can F- like a rabbit. She had about 2 weeks of living like a 20yr old, but life and reality was getting quickly worse.

So yeah, at that time, at the worst - she didn't care much, just her.

The grass is greener where you water it.

She is still sober and doing well. I'm still amazed and proud of her.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

This discussion is akin to that old nugget:

"honey, I would have told you but I knew it would upset you."

If you don't think about it too much, it can make sense to some people.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

That therapist...
SIGH.

Honestly he is not Klingon enough.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'd say if "many think they will never be caught, so they think their spouse will be spared the pain" it backs exactly what 2ntnuf stated. This group, which is many by your own words, knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care. To me that is intent.
> 
> So, I will disagree with your assertion at the beginning. I'd argue Many do not believe the damage it will do, but "many, many" more intended to cheat knowing what it may do.


They all know what it _might_ do.

It's a risk, but some don't care, others hope they'll never be caught, and others are convinced that they'll never be caught.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

higgsb said:


> I had read this on CL and I couldn't believe a BS would worry about exposing a **** wife. I exposed my WW far and wide and for like 6 months strait. I even told the my daughters teachers - I told everyone and sent the texts along for evidence.
> 
> I don't feel I lost any moral high ground.
> My wife acted like a cheating **** and I let people know.


LOL.

You're gonna wind up on the wrong side of a pillow one day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed...he does seem to lack a spine..he should have fired the therapist and then fired his wife...lets be honest when one reconciles the Ws is getting away with it to a certain extent - just the nature of cheating I guess...


I agree, the guy is a total wussy. He only rubbed his cheating wife's nose in her own feces, and yet he is the one with the problems? Did the article mention if the councilor discussed the creampies she brought home? People are friggin' amazing


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

higgsb said:


> I had read this on CL and I couldn't believe a BS would worry about exposing a **** wife. I exposed my WW far and wide and for like 6 months strait. I even told the my daughters teachers - I told everyone and sent the texts along for evidence.
> 
> I don't feel I lost any moral high ground.
> My wife acted like a cheating **** and I let people know.


Wow..now that is NUCLEAR exposure...how did your wife react to that?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I agree, the guy is a total wussy. He only rubbed his cheating wife's nose in her own feces, and yet he is the one with the problems? Did the article mention if the councilor discussed the creampies she brought home? People are friggin' amazing


It's amazing how the WS can turn themselves into a victim isn't it?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Lmao

Only in cheater world is telling people about your affair on par with them actually having an affair. How the hell can you stay married to someone who thinks like this. Actions have consequences.


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## higgsb (Apr 4, 2016)

> Wow..now that is NUCLEAR exposure...how did your wife react to that?


Surprisingly lame reaction, which is strange because when I told her I planned on telling everyone, she threatened me! But after I actually did the exposing, her attitude became, "well you are only embarrassing yourself" and that was it.

My massive exposure of her actually brought police into the picture because my position was that the State of Indiana was responsible for putting my daughters in harms way removing the two male relatives that could protect them.

Of course I contacted all local and national media - that was my pitch: the moron police let a sex offender near my daughters. In a sense its true.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

One thing that can happen in mediation or therapy is that the conductor tries to be balanced. So here, her infidelity which was obviously serious and wrong is compared with your disclosure, something that is obviously not equivalent, kind of like, he lost 20,000 gambling and she yelled at him when she found out. 

That said, I do think there needs to be some discussions of both sides in counseling. I don't believe in the you're wrong, do you know your wrong, what you did was terrible, mode of counseling. There needs to be some discussion of causes, though one cannot compare disclosure with cheating.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Lmao
> 
> Only in cheater world is telling people about your affair on par with them actually having an affair. How the hell can you stay married to someone who thinks like this. Actions have consequences.


It is incredible but not surprising. His wife wants to have the affair, get her thrills AND still be the victim - its not like we haven't seen that one before. Sometimes the BS is foolish enough to buy into that bullsh!t other times they call their WS out on it. I say blameshifitng of any kind should cause the R to be on hold indefinitely if not called off...just my view.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bobby5000 said:


> One thing that can happen in mediation or therapy is that the conductor tries to be balanced. So here, her infidelity which was obviously serious and wrong is compared with your disclosure, something that is obviously not equivalent, kind of like, he lost 20,000 gambling and she yelled at him when she found out.
> 
> That said, I do think there needs to be some discussions of both sides in counseling. I don't believe in the you're wrong, do you know your wrong, what you did was terrible, mode of counseling. There needs to be some discussion of causes, though one cannot compare disclosure with cheating.


I think in this case the WW wants to be the victim - it is all about her, her and her...her BH doesn't figure into the equation..he'd be better off separating from this piece of work.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Her response was awesome. Fcukfest and Mr. Sparkled!ck. Awesome.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

sapientia said:


> Her response was awesome. Fcukfest and Mr. Sparkled!ck. Awesome.


 @sapientia CL does have a way with words doesn't she? >

I think the BH should have got up and walked out of that therapy session and never looked back. Exposure and loss of reputation is a consequnce for being a cheating sh!t.....I have zero sympathy for a cheater who gets exposed or even cheated on...they have it ocming..


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