# Has anyone made a basic list of.....



## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?

here's mine...

"No problems lying to me…from the minute she drops me off saying “I love you” to her telling me she is “going over to a friend’s house after work”.


Would have left me and the children for him if she was not being used and looked to me as nothing more than a baby sitter to the kids instead of her husband

Resents the children and does not want them (actually wishes them to die)

Wishes me to die so she can be free from me and obligations of our marriage

Hides email and messages and attempts to lock down her accounts from me

Tells friends at work how exciting her affair is and brags 

Tells her friends how exciting it is being with another man and explains she does not care for me

Exchanges dirty pics with POSAP

She feels I am unattractive as the AP’s body drives her insane
Has her breath taken away by POS telling her he wants to “**** her brains out”

All she wants is a divorce so she can have her AP. “Andy can have the house, the kids, the dog and everything else. All I Want is Jaimie! I know I will have to deal with family and parents. But I am ready for my happiness with Jaimie”.

Worries more about what having sex with him would do to his and her friendship than our marriage

Tried to lure POSAP to our home for sex in our own home
She became the aggressor in their affair and when he tried to cut it off, She became angry at the POS for him wanting to be a better father and not **** her as she said in a letter to him that she “fell hard for him” yet I was totally abandoned on ALL levels during this period and cares nothing for the children in either home and does not care if she is labeled a “home wrecker”.

Lies to me about being with girlfriend and instead has sexual encounter with him at his mother’s house and forgets about me completely while she gives him oral treatments.

Plans sexual encounters and timings with meetings and such for when AP’s wife is out of town

Uses gifts as weapons against me. Car, Cell Phone, Computer…..etc.…My tokens of care and affection are meaningless and are tools for her affair."


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?
> 
> here's mine...
> 
> ...


Is the affair ongoing? If so, seize the abso-f*cking-lutely GOLDEN opportunity presented to you by the part in bold above and...

1) Kick her skank @$$ to the curb.
2) File for divorce.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

That list is so extensive, I hope you are getting help dealing with it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Reading through your first thread now...

Sorry, but there is just no f*cking way that I could reconcile in the face of all that.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Reading through your first thread now...
> 
> Sorry, but there is just no f*cking way that I could reconcile in the face of all that.


I have to agree. That's as egregious as it gets.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Sorry for your situation. Stop distracting yourself with pondering her awful behavior and get to your lawyer immediately. Protect assets. Implement the 180. Serve divorce papers. Expose the affair. Go dark on her. Don't engage with her, you'll just suffer from it. Good luck.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

In sorry for your situation but I believe you need some sort of a bitter medicine. All your extensive list can be summarised as "she cheated and doesn't give a damn about me" (dude, your seriously expect your ww to think about you while blowing the OM?). 
Could you please try to concentrate not on how are you feeling but instead on what are you doing? Eg lawyer not a shrink?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

She wishes you and your children dead. ???

Why are you anywhere near this person? GTFO, NOW. 

Not even worth entertaining counseling, reconciliation....whatever.....RUN.......NOW!!

Good thing there is Jamie so she has somewhere else to go.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Read his other thread, folks. I linked in my last reply above.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

I did, hence the comment above. Thanks for linking. That "oral" comment blew me away (no pun) 


GusPolinski said:


> Read his other thread, folks. I linked in my last reply above.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Wow.... So sorry OP. Please file for D and get this venomous egg donor away from your children. You can't go back, but you can choose to move forward... And I guarantee you will end up divorced anyway. The only difference is just how much more you are going to let her disrespect you until then. 

Be a role model for your children and stand up for yourself... They need one.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Reading through your first thread now...
> 
> Sorry, but there is just no f*cking way that I could reconcile in the face of all that.


I read his other threads. This is just a rant. He doesn't want to actually do anything about his situation, and he will not divorce her. He usually posts a rant, then goes dark for a few months until that lump in the carpet gets too big from rugsweeping.

Some people just can't be helped, they just want to live in the hell of limbo.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Pepper123 said:


> Wow.... So sorry OP. Please file for D and get this venomous egg donor away from your children. You can't go back, but you can choose to move forward... And I guarantee you will end up divorced anyway. The only difference is just how much more you are going to let her disrespect you until then.
> 
> Be a role model for your children and stand up for yourself... They need one.


He already said that he won't D. He's like the polar opposite of wranglerman and shamow.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> He already said that he won't D. He's like the polar opposite of wranglerman and shamow.


Honestly... that is really heartbreaking. 

I get the pain, feelings of failure, etc. But there isn't even a marriage here except on paper.... I guess I just can't reconcile my thoughts enough to wrap my head around what he is actually hanging onto. I've always said the most painful part of D is not the actual D, but in grieving the life you will no longer have because of it. 

And the kids... to be in the middle of that $hit $torm... Having grown up in a household where parents stayed for the kids, I can tell you it is NOT fair to use them as a shield from your own cowardice.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Pepper123 said:


> Wow.... So sorry OP. Please file for D and *get this venomous egg donor away from your children*. You can't go back, but you can choose to move forward... And I guarantee you will end up divorced anyway. The only difference is just how much more you are going to let her disrespect you until then.


:lol: :rofl:

And I agree, by the way.



Pepper123 said:


> *Be a role model for your children and stand up for yourself... They need one.*


Wise words.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

Yep, think he convinced himself that it was all his fault as a husband, and got used to leave in misery peeking his wounds and clinging to this imaginary love to somebody who doesn't exist any more. 


Pepper123 said:


> Honestly... that is really heartbreaking.
> 
> I get the pain, feelings of failure, etc. But there isn't even a marriage here except on paper.... I guess I just can't reconcile my thoughts enough to wrap my head around what he is actually hanging onto. I've always said the most painful part of D is not the actual D, but in grieving the life you will no longer have because of it.
> 
> And the kids... to be in the middle of that $hit $torm... Having grown up in a household where parents stayed for the kids, I can tell you it is NOT fair to use them as a shield from your own cowardice.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Turin74 said:


> Yep, think he convinced himself that it was all his fault as a husband, and got used to leave in misery peeking his wounds and clinging to this imaginary love to somebody who doesn't exist any more.


His children must see the lifelessness in his eyes... a sort of blank, soulless gaze devoid of all enthusiasm and vitality.

They will pity him at first... and then, years or even decades later, once their own lives have imploded due to the poor examples provided to them, they will utterly loathe him.

It's a shame, really.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?
> 
> here's mine...
> 
> ...


Seriously, I'd have to ask myself: _"What problems do I have for my loving wife to act that bad to me, that much and that often?!"_


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

Exactly. Without extremities like child abuse, if OP has a boy... For a boy it is nothing worse than an incapable shell of a father living in misery, nobody to set an example and being proud of. Bet OP is too self centred on his pity to think about that. 


GusPolinski said:


> His children must see the lifelessness in his eyes... a sort of blank, soulless gaze devoid of all enthusiasm and vitality.
> 
> They will pity him at first... and then, years or even decades later, once their own lives have imploded due to the poor examples provided to them, they will utterly loathe him.
> 
> It's a shame, really.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

*Resents the children and does not want them (actually wishes them to die)*

 

How can you not be taking the children away from this mad, mad woman?

Seriously, mate. This woman went off the deep end, and it is causing you to go off as well. 

Divorce this biotech. WHAT are you waiting for?

All way wards have said nasty stuff and some of it a BS has been willing to accept was part of a selfish fog. But her kind of talk is downright bonkers.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Most of us get.. ILY B INILWY

He gets INILWY A IWYTD

10 years later: "Hey remember that time when you were getting banged by Jamie all the time and you wanted me and the kids to JUST die? Oh man, crazy times babe. Happy Anniversary!! We made it!"


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

davecarter said:


> Seriously, I'd have to ask myself: _"What problems do I have for my loving wife to act that bad to me, that much and that often?!"_


Obviously, when a mother resents her own children and would like them dead the first place to look for answers is the father


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> Obviously, when a mother resents her own children and would like them dead the first place to look for answers is the father


If Machiavelli were here, he may say it's a more extreme manifestation of the WW's overriding drive to reproduce with the OM and detach from her current H and family. (Sorry, OP) 

I can't read this thread. This woman just makes me ill. "Oh sweetie, I didn't meannnn it. It's just an expression. I don't know what I was thinking."


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

staystrong said:


> If Machiavelli were here, he may say it's a more extreme manifestation of the WW's overriding drive to reproduce with the OM and detach from her current H and family. (Sorry, OP)


I kind of agree. What we usually see is the WW has no intention of leaving her husband, or she wants to but expects to keep the house and the kids after the divorce.

I personally think the mother-child bond is the strongest in the animal kingdom. A mother mouse will face down a cat to protect its young. In another thread some of the former WW's didn't feel that cheating automatically made them bad parents. I can see where they're coming from, if they considered their choice to cheat as a very selfish diversion and not, as it is here, a chance to start an entirely new life free of inconveniences.



> I can't read this thread. This woman just makes me ill. "Oh sweetie, I didn't meannnn it. It's just an expression. I don't know what I was thinking."


Yes this is at the extreme end of 'crazy fog talk'. An example of not only a marriage re-write but a clear desire to wipe the slate clean and pursue her own happiness.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

staystrong said:


> *Resents the children and does not want them (actually wishes them to die)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say given Agosto's state of mind, his wife was driven to it and decided:
_"F*cuk it. I'll go to Defcon-1 while I'm doing it" _

Don't blame her, either. Guy sounds like a 'case'.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

If she resents the children and wishes them dead, I can't see how you can live with yourself by exposing them to her. She could harm your children. She could stand by and watch them get harmed.

Sorry, that is just too much for me. Regardless of what the FVCK you think you want- you need to take care of the kids and protect them from her.

This one is as clear cut as I have seen. Protect the kids and yourself. Get a divorce and a restraining order.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?


Counseling is worthless for one reason my friend. You!

Yeah, you heard me. You are expecting by some miracle she is going to change and become the woman you want her to be. But guess what, that's not how counselling works. 

It works by revealing the people you are, then trying to find a way to make those pieces fit. But guess what, you don't want to see it because the pieces in your life can't fit. You want a loving, caring and faithful woman. She can't be that. Counseling isn't going to change that.

So, what can it change? You! You need to wake up and take charge of yourself. Divorce her, or at least seperate for a while if you can't handle that thought. Clear your head of her influence over you. She is manipulating you and from what I can tell, you are a very willing subject. 90 days apart from her will do you a lot of good.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Augusto said:


> *Resents the children and does not want them (actually wishes them to die)
> 
> Wishes me to die so she can be free from me and obligations of our marriage*


Cold hard b!tch just a kiss on the lips
Then I was on my knees, I'm waitin', give me
Cold hard b!tch... Jet - Cold Hard B!tch


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?
> 
> here's mine...
> 
> ...


 I think that with her, counseling is a waste of money. Take the deal. Take the house the kids and the dog and let her go with the OM. Then it's his problem to deal with.

Make sure you get it in writing by your attorney so it's legal. Then you make sure that she also has to pay support for her children. She's still the other parent although not a shining example of one.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> I personally think the mother-child bond is the strongest in the animal kingdom. A mother mouse will face down a cat to protect its young.


In most cases, but not all.... my own mother is a shining example of that. And when you grow up with a mom that doesn't nurture or care for you, you get the experience of learning to accept less from people than most would... You get to think, "This is how people that love me are supposed to treat me." Which you don't learn until you have been used and abused, is untrue. Once those neural pathways are mapped out, it is a b!itch to map new ones. Trust me... I've spent thousands in counseling to learn that little life lesson.

So OP... If you don't value yourself enough to walk away, I hope you at least value the safety and future lives of your children that much. I know that you are depressed, but "F ALL!" pull yourself together.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?
> 
> here's mine...
> 
> "No problems lying to me…from the minute she drops me off saying “I love you” to her telling me she is “going over to a friend’s house after work”.


They lie like humans breath air or drink water. It's very easy for them.



Augusto said:


> Would have left me and the children for him if she was not being used and looked to me as nothing more than a baby sitter to the kids instead of her husband


They are master compartamentalizers. Everyone has their label you know. Your job was to provide financial support and watch the children.



Augusto said:


> Resents the children and does not want them (actually wishes them to die)
> 
> Wishes me to die so she can be free from me and obligations of our marriage


I don't know if this is exactly true, but in cheater logic it may have come through her mind as her brain rubix cube's through all the possibilities. 



Augusto said:


> Hides email and messages and attempts to lock down her accounts from me
> 
> Tells friends at work how exciting her affair is and brags
> 
> Tells her friends how exciting it is being with another man and explains she does not care for me


Well she can't care for you and everything you do is wrong. Her brain will make it all logical. If she cares for you and has any guilt, it will make her feel like crap. We know she can't feel like crap so it will make reasons to hate you. 



Augusto said:


> Exchanges dirty pics with POSAP
> 
> She feels I am unattractive as the AP’s body drives her insane
> Has her breath taken away by POS telling her he wants to “**** her brains out”


If you have seen the guy, is it really that big of a deal? I mean is he really built as well or better than the average male stripper? And this isn't really a big deal, these guys conditioning is very obtainable.



Augusto said:


> All she wants is a divorce so she can have her AP. “Andy can have the house, the kids, the dog and everything else. All I Want is Jaimie! I know I will have to deal with family and parents. But I am ready for my happiness with Jaimie”.


Idiot. I would divorce her while she is in this frame of mind. Get the kids too, and child support out of her. 

You can call "Jamie" and say "I'm done, you can take care of her. Her stuff's already packed and on the front step."



Augusto said:


> Worries more about what having sex with him would do to his and her friendship than our marriage


Affair sex, that dreamy unicorn stuff.



Augusto said:


> Tried to lure POSAP to our home for sex in our own home
> She became the aggressor in their affair and when he tried to cut it off, She became angry at the POS for him wanting to be a better father and not **** her as she said in a letter to him that she “fell hard for him” yet I was totally abandoned on ALL levels during this period and cares nothing for the children in either home and does not care if she is labeled a “home wrecker”.


Nope, even calling her those or the feelings of feeling like this will make her affair "identity" even stronger. 



Augusto said:


> Lies to me about being with girlfriend and instead has sexual encounter with him at his mother’s house and forgets about me completely while she gives him oral treatments.


And you want her back, because?



Augusto said:


> Plans sexual encounters and timings with meetings and such for when AP’s wife is out of town
> 
> Uses gifts as weapons against me. Car, Cell Phone, Computer…..etc.…My tokens of care and affection are meaningless and are tools for her affair."


All their little cheatings and lies and cover ups become an exciting endless adrenaline rush. It's why many of us wouldn't even bother talking to someone who has built up this level of Teflon in their lives.

There's nothing you can do, you can provide a series of actions and responses that might get through in a year or more, but you gotta let them go.

"Yeah, I think you and Jamie will make an excellent life together. I don't want to hold you back from whats important to you"


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Augusto, you know the truth, even if you can't admit it to yourself. She's not going to stop cheating. She's not in love with you. She also doesn't want her children around. Most likely because they hold her back from... well being on her back.

You also know that the best thing you can do for your kids and yourself is to D her. Yes, once you've D'd her, she going to go through men like a rabbit on a lettuce patch. But this is still going to happen even if you stayed married to her.

Make no mistake. You WILL be getting a D. Maybe not next month, or next year, but it's going to happen. It's just a matter of how much extra pain that you are willing to go through before you do it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Reading through your first thread now...
> 
> Sorry, but there is just no f*cking way that I could reconcile in the face of all that.


Understatement!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

No doubt.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Augusto, you know the truth, even if you can't admit it to yourself. She's not going to stop cheating. She's not in love with you. She also doesn't want her children around. Most likely because they hold her back from... well being on her back.


She wants to "live her life" and nothing you can do to stop her. She's definitely not in love with you or even really love you enough not to cheat. So she doesn't care much about you at all. She does like having your financial and emotional support and your "unconditional love" for the moment, so nothing she can do will take that away and it feels great.



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> You also know that the best thing you can do for your kids and yourself is to D her. Yes, once you've D'd her, she going to go through men like a rabbit on a lettuce patch. But this is still going to happen even if you stayed married to her.


This is indeed true. She would do it rather if you are married or not.



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Make no mistake. You WILL be getting a D. Maybe not next month, or next year, but it's going to happen. It's just a matter of how much extra pain that you are willing to go through before you do it.


Divorce or truly letting this situation go will RELEASE pain. It feels great.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Maybe she has an undiagnosed mental issue... I'm voting this one:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ization-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20033401


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> Maybe she has an undiagnosed mental issue... I'm voting this one:
> 
> Depersonalization-derealization disorder Symptoms - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic


I read this, might be true. Cheaters who have a lot going on develop all kind of mind warp while they are doing all their stuff.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

OP there is one fundamental rule in relationships the person who is willing to end it and let other person go has power in the relationship your wife has made it clear she has no interest in you or the marriage you need to move on the only reason why she hasn't filed herself is because as long as you are willing humiliate your self by financially supporting her and by proxy her affair she sees no reason to initiate divorce proceedings *YOUR WIFE IS* 













*WAKE UP!!* ask yourself is this the example you want to set to your kids on how you should treat someone and how you should be treated ????


I know letting go someone isn't easy but staying at the loss of your, self respect, your sanity and your health * is simply not an option*


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

xakulax said:


> OP there is one fundamental rule in relationships the person who is willing to end it and let other person go has power in the relationship your wife has made it clear she has no interest in you or the marriage you need to move on the only reason why she hasn't filed herself is because as long as you are willing humiliate your self by financially supporting her and by proxy her affair she sees no reason to initiate divorce proceedings *YOUR WIFE IS*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Cake-eater looks DISGUSTING!

So when someone is using you for a **** so they can cheat with a safety net in place, entitleing themselves to your time, money and energy due to the fact they place so high in society, so special...

It might make sense to cheat on them in return and not really care that they are cheating...

But if you are going to do all this, why pay for a gf or wife who you have no access to, and why pay to be cheated on?

If you guys are going to be boinking other people, why be together?

Just be single.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

Maybe... But as one wise doctor told me "the patient doesn't fell better when he learns the Latin name of his illness". I think op wanted to rant, didn't like the responses and crawled back to his self built cave of misery. 


Pepper123 said:


> Maybe she has an undiagnosed mental issue... I'm voting this one:
> 
> http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ization-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20033401


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Turin74 said:


> Yep, think he convinced himself that it was all his fault as a husband, and got used to leave in misery peeking his wounds and clinging to this imaginary love to somebody who doesn't exist any more.


I resemble that remark, too. 

And I have felt much the same.

Listen, the fact of the matter is, we can all be fooled. Some of us want things so badly, when we are given them for the first time, we don't know if the gift of love was sincere. The person who chose us didn't really know what they wanted either. After some time and them not getting the satisfaction and love they thought they would receive, they go for what they always wanted in the first place, but were to afraid or embarrassed or whatever, to admit it. 

It doesn't make it any easier, though. We still want to believe that person that existed in our lives, who made us happy, was doing it out of love and desire to please us. It flies in the face of our self respect. You mean, I didn't know myself? No, I'm no child. I've been through years of other things and dealt with them. I can be deceived that easily? 

We wanted to be deceived. Actually, what I mean is, we wanted to be pleased in a certain way. They read us or we told them and they gave us what we wanted, all the while resenting us for not giving them what they wanted. Well, we figured we must have been because they married us. Maybe we weren't and they thought we would learn? 

They don't want to admit being mistaken or manipulating us, so we will never know. And counselors will not find the answers. They will only let you talk and deal with the issues you have. No, it isn't fun. Who knows when we will heal. I wish it was now. This very second. I know it won't be. 

Good luck. I hope you heal soon.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

That's a beautiful post (seriously) but let me [mis] quote one of the great poets (shame, I don't remember the name) who after watching a military parade wrote "that was beautiful.. but what does it have to do with war"? 

In other words, the summary of comments (my humble interpretation) given to OP is exactly what my grandfather used to tell me when I wanted his shoulder to cry on: "well, that's unfortunate... What are you going to do about it?" 


2ntnuf said:


> I resemble that remark, too.
> 
> And I have felt much the same.
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Reading through your first thread now...
> 
> Sorry, but there is just no f*cking way that I could reconcile in the face of all that.


Yes, I agree. In fact when I saw that list I though holy :wtf:

She sounds dangerous. Almost as if she is ready to arrange a little "accident" for hubby, the kids and the dog?

So cold and calculating. does she have a mental health issue? Because that wish list of hate is not normal.:scratchhead:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Augusto said:


> “Andy can have the house, the kids, the dog and everything else. All I Want is Jaimie! I know I will have to deal with family and parents. But I am ready for my happiness with Jaimie”.


What a sissy sounding lily-pad name for a man.

Can you imagine: "when the smoke cleared, there was Jaimie!"

Probably uses a blow dryer.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Turin74 said:


> That's a beautiful post (seriously) but let me [mis] quote one of the great poets (shame, I don't remember the name) who after watching a military parade wrote "that was beautiful.. but what does it have to do with war"?
> 
> In other words, the summary of comments (my humble interpretation) given to OP is exactly what my grandfather used to tell me when I wanted his shoulder to cry on: "well, that's unfortunate... What are you going to do about it?"


Not really what I was trying for. I just felt empathy for him. I feel or have felt great confusion in a similar way. 

I guess I was trying to say that the answers he is looking for may not be found. It's sad and frustrating to no end. I feel bad. 

I just wanted him to know he is not alone. I wanted to offer some of the thoughts I've had on the idea that we may not have known the person we married. How could they be so different than who we thought they were when we married?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Turin74 said:


> Maybe... But as one wise doctor told me "the patient doesn't fell better when he learns the Latin name of his illness". I think op wanted to rant, didn't like the responses and crawled back to his self built cave of misery.


So true, seemingly on both fronts. 

So weird how there is so much trauma and sadness in some of these threads, but the saddest of the sad are those where the BS refuses to do anything. Depressing.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: Re: Has anyone made a basic list of.....*

Cannot agree more. "it may not be your fault you ended up like this, but it's entirely your fault you are not doing enough to get out". (c) my grandfather. 



Pepper123 said:


> but the saddest of the sad are those where the BS refuses to do anything. Depressing.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?


Well you at least know where you stand. In your list you mentioned "our marriage". You realize, in this case, that pretty much a useless phrase.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Augusto,

Do you believe in "the one", or "soul-mates", or something like that? Did you sort of believe in marriage as a one time thing that lasted your whole life? Did you sort of believe that your partner took the vows as seriously as you? 

Did you believe those vows were most important in the area of the promise that you made to her and to a higher power? 

Just curious really. I wonder if there is some pattern to those of us who seem to believe like me, that the person we married is the one we love and may not ever let go of. 

Seems to me that the longer I think about this, the more I realize my ex was not the woman I thought she was. I'm not saying she tried to trick me. I don't know that. I just seem to be in love with a dream or a memory or something I thought was real. I question whether or not I actually loved a fantasy that I created from thinking she was what I always wanted. 

I also wonder if that isn't from a lack of communication of a personally revealing nature on her part. I wonder if I filled in the blanks, not realizing it, and accepted them as reality.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

I don't want to sound cruel but Augusto as the bad as he had it he is still with his wife despite knowing well that she did not wanted him, that he was plan B, and that she was willing to exchange everything for OM and the only reason she is with him is because OM rejected her.

An even after he rejected her, she still was pinning for OM, Augusto is not looking for advice as really good advices have been already given to him in 2 of his previous threads, he is just ranting, which is valid to try to liberate his pain, but the true is that if he is suffering for his wife's aptitude is because he wants, he know better than anyone were his wife would be right now if OM had choosed her.

I wish you happiness Augusto but I already explained in a previous thread of yours why the triple humiliation betrayal can not be overcomed and why it will haunt you forever, if you still try to fix the unfixable and stay with someone that you know at heart does not want you back, then you are the only responsible for your unhapiness


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Some people just can't be helped, they just want to live in the hell of limbo.


Its a fetish


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

Hey everyone,

I made that list 2 years ago right when it all came around. It was a rant then. But I continue to have contact with my councilor because these things are still fresh in my mind. I was triggering really bad the other day I could not sleep. I was at a resort where we had stayed the night after I asked her if she was involving herself with someone and she looked into my eyes saying no and promised me there was no one else but me. Nothing works ya know!!!! But we are doing well for the most part. She is doing better than me. She suffered major depression during pregnancy when all of this occurred. I was the lone dad and husband who was abandoned. I protected the children from her during this really well. It still burns me to this day. It was almost like a light switch for her with depression and fantasy Vs reality. She has done everything in her power to make up for it. But I have changed. I do not think I will ever trust her 100%. I will never forget it. I have forgiven her but I won't ever forget. She probably would like that more than ever. But its something she cannot have as she created it. Just as she can never have back the feeling of never had an affair outside of our marriage. We both have to live with that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I'll have to find it, but I'd swear that you mentioned that she'd said something to the tune of "You need to just get over it..." to you. If this is correct, then I'd be hard-pressed to believe that she really is doing "everything in her power to make up for it."

Those two comments just don't jive... ya dig?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Ah yes, the *depression excuse*. 

That's the rationalization of every BS in denial in just about every thread to justify their WW's actions. 

For those reading, in almost every thread about infidelity thread in this forum, just know that someone, somehow, is going to throw out the "he/she was depressed" line. Usually it comes from the BS, or it comes from the other members in a comment.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Augusto said:


> She suffered major depression during pregnancy when all of this occurred.


Just so we're clear... are you saying that she was having an affair w/ OM *while she was pregnant* or that she was involved w/ OM while suffering from postpartum depression (as in she'd recently given birth)...?

Either way... I hope you've DNAed the kids.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Just so we're clear... are you saying that she was having an affair w/ OM *while she was pregnant* or that she was involved w/ OM while suffering from postpartum depression (as in she'd recently given birth)...?
> 
> Either way... I hope you've DNAed the kids.


It was during pregnancy.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I'll have to find it, but I'd swear that you mentioned that she'd said something to the tune of "You need to just get over it..." to you. If this is correct, then I'd be hard-pressed to believe that she really is doing "everything in her power to make up for it."
> 
> Those two comments just don't jive... ya dig?


that wasn't me


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> I'll have to find it, but I'd swear that you mentioned that she'd said something to the tune of "You need to just get over it..." to you. If this is correct, then I'd be hard-pressed to believe that she really is doing "everything in her power to make up for it."
> 
> Those two comments just don't jive... ya dig?





Augusto said:


> What has been lost is my dream. That dream being of myself and my wife growing old together. Growing old bushy eyebrows for my grand-kids to pull on as my wife would be baking cookies and such. That was my dream that was shattered. Is there a future now? I do not know. I have no vision of the future. Perhaps it was what I wanted and now I cannot see. If it happens later in life , Great! But will the dream be altered in anyway? Will she be able to be with me and feel trusted? Will she feel I can trust her by then? Because it will be a very long time for me to trust her again. And if that takes too long for her then I guess it was never going to work do to her choices. Which pretty much means she would do this again. I mean when you throw away your spouse like garbage, you essentially throw away any meaningful memory whether good or bad. Everything we built together becomes a waste of time especially if I was worth gambling away for someone else. Memories became worthless to me when I read that she loved another. *She tells me to stop living in the past* so I guess I really should think that our 13 years of marriage are not worth having either. After all, it is in the past. If good memories are not enough to make you happy and stay loyal and true to your spouse, how can you truly see a good future?


Translation: Stop bringing it up and sweep it under the rug.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Augusto said:


> that wasn't me


When someone asked you if she referred to her past with OM, you say yes, but trying anyway.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/150393-shattered-dream-her-affair.html#post6052001


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Augusto said:


> It was during pregnancy.


Oh. Damn. Well, like I said... DNA them kiddos.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Augusto, my main concern is you won't be satisfied until your wife really works to show she understands what she did to you. It still sounds as though it is more about her than you. Have you tried getting that across to her?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Hard to sympathize with a guy who's misery is self inflicted.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Augusto said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I made that list 2 years ago right when it all came around. It was a rant then. But I continue to have contact with my councilor because these things are still fresh in my mind. I was triggering really bad the other day I could not sleep. I was at a resort where we had stayed the night after I asked her if she was involving herself with someone and she looked into my eyes saying no and promised me there was no one else but me. *Nothing works ya know!!!!*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## famethrowa (Jul 26, 2014)

Augusto said:


> things that happened and are still bothering you because you feel counseling has been worthless and want to know why?
> 
> here's mine...
> 
> ...


What are you doing on here, you should be in a lawyer's office.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The folks here aren't being mean to you, they are swinging two by fours in an effort to get you to see what is going on. They believe you can't accept how bad this is.

The fact is, if something actually happened to her family, your wife would be devastated. However, your wife may be a sociopath. Look that up and see if she fits that profile. In any event she must go to counseling and be willing to let you talk to her counselor ( psychaiatrist) to see what can be accomplished.

Your main problem is you however. The trauma you have/are going through can only be handled by a very experienced counselor. You need a counselor that is knowledgeable dealing with infidelity but most importantly post traumatic stress syndrome. Delay will only put off the day you will eventually be heeled.

When going to a counselor, find one you like and click with. Keep looking until you find that match.

Try searching for thorburn on this site. He is an army counselor and seek his advice on ptsd treatment.

Good luck and prayers 

Chap


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Augusto said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I made that list 2 years ago right when it all came around. It was a rant then. But I continue to have contact with my councilor because these things are still fresh in my mind. I was triggering really bad the other day I could not sleep. I was at a resort where we had stayed the night after I asked her if she was involving herself with someone and she looked into my eyes saying no and promised me there was no one else but me. Nothing works ya know!!!! But we are doing well for the most part. She is doing better than me. She suffered major depression during pregnancy when all of this occurred. I was the lone dad and husband who was abandoned. I protected the children from her during this really well. It still burns me to this day. It was almost like a light switch for her with depression and fantasy Vs reality. She has done everything in her power to make up for it. But I have changed. I do not think I will ever trust her 100%. I will never forget it. I have forgiven her but I won't ever forget. She probably would like that more than ever. But its something she cannot have as she created it. Just as she can never have back the feeling of never had an affair outside of our marriage. We both have to live with that.


Print off your list and have her write responses to you.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I think if OP had done what Wranglerman did, she would drop the OM and be all over him. He could have had what he wanted.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Q tip said:


> I think if OP had done what Wranglerman did, she would drop the OM and be all over him. He could have had what he wanted.


OM dropped her. If OM wanted her, she would have left and she expected to leave.

OP is her way to save face. She told everyone about OM and how they would be together. She told everyone how great OM was and how bad her H was.

OM was the prince while OP is the frog.

It is embarrassing enough to get dumped by a prince however, even worse to get dumped by the frog.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

You need to get professional help please, take care of yourself. She has cut your self-esteem down to zero and it will stay there as long as you insist on staying married to a psycho.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Augusto said:


> She has done everything in her power to make up for it.


Let's assume that's true. She's been completely remorseful since then.

Understand that there are levels of betrayal. Your wife's, like mine, was on the far end of the severity scale. Some will tell you that it's too much to overcome. If she wasn't truly remorseful, I would be in that camp and suggest that you D.

So why are you not starting to get past this after 2 years? Since we will rule out a lack of remorse on her part, it could be either or both of these reasons:

- You rug swept her A. Her lack of consequences; the thoughts of her getting off too easy; keeps you up at night.

- The severity of the betrayal is just too great for *you* to overcome. You tried but just can't do it.

I would say that if you still feel like this after two years, that's not a good sign. 

There is no time limit on attempting R - especially given how egregious her betrayal was. Also, no shame for you in attempting it. But at some point you just have to understand yourself enough to envision what's best for *you*; a future with her or without her.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Okay OP,
This is a really tough one. I read your other thread and I’m reading this one and I see something here that remains untouched…as near as I can tell.
You seem very unwilling to initiate the divorce…and I am wondering WHY?

This is either fuel for some fetish or self-punishment or there is an agreement you made with yourself a long time ago that is preventing you from seeing the truth.
Search the back of your mind ( maybe with your counselors help) and see if you can find that detail. I think it would be worth it in order to break yourself out of this pattern of helplessness.
It may be any number of things including:

1.	Fear of being alone.
2.	Fear of losing her
3.	Worship of the concept of marriage
4.	Fear of being “not good enough to be married or succeed in the marriage”
5.	Pedestal behavior

So many things could be stopping you from pulling the trigger on the divorce. What you need to do is figure out WHAT that things(s) is.

You COULD be happy…er. 
But you wont be able to go there until you seek out and identify this roadblock.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Can't believe OP would continue to stay in his position of "Plan B", but alas, he's still there.

I don't know how he expects to ever get over the things she said and did. I honestly don't think he can...I know that I couldn't/wouldn't.

I wouldn't expect the triggers to ever go away, especially if he stays married to her. Even if he gets a divorce, he'd still have triggers from time to time, but at least they would eventually dwindle down in frequency as he works on himself.

I would take a long hard look at why you would accept this crap from anyone, especially your wife. It's way overboard.

Please get some help, buddy. This is one of the worst I've read.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SamuraiJack said:


> Okay OP,
> This is a really tough one. I read your other thread and I’m reading this one and I see something here that remains untouched…as near as I can tell.
> You seem very unwilling to initiate the divorce…and I am wondering WHY?
> 
> ...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Calibre1212 said:


> You need to get professional help please, take care of yourself. She has cut your self-esteem down to zero and it will stay there as long as you insist on staying married to a psycho.


How the heck could she reverse this? Basically see a living god in the flesh? Your done, I second get professional help.


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