# Wife afraid of budget, debt out of control



## mort06 (Sep 11, 2014)

Some stats on us
Me-35, wife 32, twins boy/girl almost 2. I work in the financial field, up to 63k/year, plus $22k dividend/bonus safely estimated for Feb 2015. She is SAHM, out of desire and that paying daycare for twins cancels out any income she could make. She had a bad history with money before we were married; her parents lived heavily on credit cards and never taught her anything. 

The kids were born and she had to have everything, and generally times 2. Spent 5k to get their room in order, paid off that debt once we sold. The first year we did ok, she made a few bucks tutoring grade school kids but that fizzled up. She was two quarters away from finishing her masters in teaching when she got pregnant.

After selling our last place, we paid off all credit debt, car and in-laws and purchased new house. We couldn’t afford much of a house near work (Seattle/Bellevue, WA Puget Sound Region) but managed to get a good deal on new construction about 30 miles southeast of Seattle. Debt rose again from new items purchased for the home and things she had to have and when revisiting the budget she would start a fight every time. I would try to discuss things as calmly as possible, never blaming her for any part of it, complementing her on the things for the house to make her happy. 

Then the worst was in May, we had about 12k of debt after 5 months at our new place. Went to discuss our spending, she through one of the biggest temper tantrums, threaten divorce because she didn’t want to talk about money. Once she came to, we did come up with a plan and some jewelry and make 5-10% cuts to other budgets to pay off debt again. My net monthly income covers mortgage and all basic bills, student loans, loans from my 401k with a little left over, but all grocery, gas, etc… expenses go on credit. We realized average $1,000month would accumulate in debt, and would be paid off from my dividend since we are single income. 

$4k of the debt was for extending concrete patio and lawn for our new house (backyard came barren) and other interior updates she had to have. The Lawn was a must, otherwise our HOA would have started fining us. We set up payment schedules in our budget to pay these off over time, since they have value for the future. 

Since then we have added $5k in credit debt, and most is regular living expenses. Since May I can’t even mention budgeting or let her see me doing it. I have to do it secret. I let it go for July into August, didn’t have time to go through receipts (she kept about half) and now see we have a problem, we would run out of credit in 12 months or so. Her main issues, she gets defensive, we have to eat, kids need clothes, etc… She claims she doesn’t ever spend money on herself. That is half true; lately she has stayed within her budget for clothes and coffee but earlier in the year overspent about 1k more than me. 

I save about $100/month on my personal budget, it’s the only budget I can control. This helps balance things out, plus really trying to save money for adult sports rec league dues in the fall. She then gets mad because I’m spending money where she isn’t which isn’t even a logical argument. The other issue, she feels guilty spending my money. I never ever have implied this was ever the case, it’s everyone’s money.

I thought we had cut items back, scaled back TV, cell phones, gym, eating out, entertainment but to no avail. The worst is the groceries, average $1,500/month the past 3 months. If I try to ask her about any of these, she will fly off and throw her usual temper tantrum worse than the kids (e.g. large amount at Target, may be grocery, but could be other things, I just don’t know).

At this point, we now have to cut our budgets hard, so I’m not sure how much further we could go. So the question is, how can I have an adult conversation with her to set realistic goals on budgeting? I want to avoid the “we need to sit down and review our spending” phrase, that will just lead to more crazy. But re-word into something that she would understand. I sought advice from a financial advisor, his suggestion was to focus on our goals. Do you think that is a good approach? Thanks for reading, any advice is much appreciated. Cheers.


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

mort06 said:


> I have to do it secret.


Given everything else you describe, this is probably the right solution. Take the on your shoulders and limit her access to finances.



> So the question is, how can I have an adult conversation with her to set realistic goals on budgeting? I want to avoid the “we need to sit down and review our spending” phrase, that will just lead to more crazy.


I think maybe you don't. Maybe you just assume the adult role on finances and accept that she will never be an equal partner on this.

Don't discuss budgeting with her, just give her a budget. If you need to enforce it, give her a debit card to a separate account.

Perhaps, once you've been through this maelstrom and your finances are recovered, you can start to have an adult conversation with her. But she is going to be less rational in a crisis where she feels you are blaming her for overspending.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening mort06
If you have been doing your best to approach her with a problem you *both* need to solve, then you are doing all you can. 

I think counseling may really be required - one person cannot prevent overrunning the budget in marriage. 

You have a full time skilled job and a reasonable income, but the sad reality is that raising children on a single income means making sacrifices. That is fine - its not like you don't get to eat or you have to live in a cardboard box, but you do (as a family) need to keep tight control of your budget. 

She has got to be made to understand that this is just the reality of life. Ignoring budgets will not make things better, it will make them worse. 

Does she some how blame you for not earning enough money? 
(in my book you are working a full time skilled job - all that can be expected of anyone).


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

OP, you cannot go through a marriage with someone you are afraid will have a temper tantrum every single time you try to have a reasonable discussion with them.

She's setting up a really optimal situation for her to get her way whenever she wants by making you fear normal confrontation discussions. You cannot put up with this...its ridiculous....you have children to take care of.

You need to set a budget and show it to her. If she freaks out, oh well...you should be equally angry that she's financially betraying not just you...but your children. You both have a responsibility to do better for your kids.

You need to have limits. What is it for you financially? Losing your house? Having creditors call you every day? Or are you already at your limit?

Set the budget, explain it to her no matter how much she fights and tell her that you expect her to live within it and if its not followed within a reasonable time frame (2 weeks) that you're moving to a cash system and cutting off credit. You should try every attempt to compromise but if that doesn't work, you need to take action to try to get this fixed.

One warning though...if she decides to open credit card accounts or LOCs in your name, you're screwed....so talk to your bank to limit her opportunity to do so as much as you can. Ultimately, while you're married, she can definitely commit financial infidelity and there are limits to what you can do about it.

Ultimately, its very difficult to stay in a marriage with this type of issue unless you find some way to reach an agreement. If she continues to be financially irresponsible and jeopardize the well-being of your family and then uses forceful manipulation tactics to ensure the continuation of her bad behavior, you're going to need to decide what's in your and your children's best interest.

You need to erase the precedence she's set for manipulating you and start fresh by insisting that you are heard. If she has a fit when she sees you doing the budget...seriously, who cares? Someone has to be the adult in this relationship if she's going to act like a toddler.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Put limits on your credit cards, or get new cards and give her ones with monthly limits or small credit levels to use for household expenses, so that they'll be declined if she goes over budget. Monitor your credit with one of the free services (credit karma is one, I think; go through the bills and statements every month) which will also notify you of any new accounts or credit limits. If necessary - and you don't already do this - set up separate bank accounts with hers limited in balance, and do not give her any access to yours except as beneficiary. If she is this irresponsible, make sure she can't open new accounts and if she does, close them immediately and look for ways to prevent it.

Basically, you have to grow a pair and take on all financial management, which is your field, after all. Don't discuss money with her, and continue to draw the line with major expenses wherever necessary, even if she throws a tantrum. You can't let her manipulate you into debt, which could lead to foreclosure or other nasty consequences. Let her rant, stay calm, if necessary tell her you'll talk to her when she can do so calmly and then leave the room, let walk out leave - she'll be back.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

You have two issues here.

The most serious one is that your adult wife throws a child's tantrum when you confront her with something she doesn't want to hear or do. And when she acts like a child, you are forced to act like an adult and your marriage ceases to be a partnership of equals. It's going to seriously damage your marriage, because it will overlap into areas beyond financial ones. Just like with children, you can't give in, or that will encourage the behaviour. When she tantrums, tell her the discussion is apparently over and you'll have to make the decision by yourself.

The less serious one is her out-of-control spending. You already realize you're going to have to make some unilateral decisions about how to reduce her tendency to overspend. Other posters have suggested good strategies to try, like taking away her credit cards and making her use cash, or reducing the credit limits (I'm a big fan of making her embarrass herself at a checkout by having her card declined!).

If she complains to you, all you can do is remind her that you did try to discuss and brainstorm this with her but she just yelled and screamed and that ended the conversation.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I gotta say, though... The overspending isn't just on her. You two are living beyond your means. That's not just her. I'm surprised that someone in a financial industry would be putting your monthly bills on credit and letting them stack up. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

PBear said:


> I gotta say, though... The overspending isn't just on her. You two are living beyond your means. That's not just her. I'm surprised that someone in a financial industry would be putting your monthly bills on credit and letting them stack up.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And.... if your monthly bills are going on credit, neither one of you should have a "coffee allowance." YOU should have a modest clothes allowance, since you have to go to work. She can earn her clothes budget by tutoring. 

I think you need to have this conversation with a neutral 3rd party, like a marriage counselor or even your family's financial advisor.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Is it particularly expensive around the seattle area? I think it is.
How much is your monthly mortage payments?

Do I understand right; the arithmetic tells me $12K + 5K in debt.,
plus $1k stacking up every month?

you make $63k/yr. + bonus. what does she make?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

also, how much equity in the house?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Mort, stop spending, and stop enabling her to spend. The fortunate thing for you is that ultimately you have control over your own paycheck. That sounds harsh but its the truth. While it is a partnership, your role is to provide the income - so do what you know you must do and be responsible about the money.

1) Surely she understands that money is not an unlimited resource? If not, then start by explaining that basic concept.

2)YOU set the budget, if she complains remind her about #1

3) if she spends money outside of the budget, the consequence is that you stop putting money in the joint account and stop paying for her credit card bills. If she starts building resentment or accuses you of withholding, remind her of #1 again.

Live with what you have - you do not need to spend a dime to renovate your yard, kitchen etc. If it is important to you both to make your home more liveable, then set a goal and start putting a small amount of savings away until you can afford it (requires patience).


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## mort06 (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice, Nikita, you are right, I probably need to address this head on with her. It isn't doing any good doing this by myself. Fortunately our credit is ok, took a hit after the mortgage but should be back in the 800's (but i should look). We haven't missed or been late on any bills, but I'm more fearfull for the next year if we didn't address the issues. 

She has one LOC in her name, we setup together so she could rebuild her credit. She uses it a couple times a month just so there is some activity and there hasn't been any red flags. Although, by reducing budgets, I will have to keep an eye out on anything new. 

Yes, the Seattle area is expensive, a modest house (3bd, 1500Sq ft) starts around 4-500k near work. Couldn't do another fixer upper with the kids at their age. The downside of moving to the sticks was her ability to make some income with tutoring was reduced to zero. We only put 10% down so equity is minimal right now since the house is no longer new. We plan to stay for years to come, with a rate under 3%.

Our personal monthly budgets were $200, in our initial cutbacks reduced to $175. Since the cutbacks, she has stayed within that budget, but will have to cut this way back now. 

The use of credit cards for general day-day expenses is something we had done all along, to take advantage of airmiles... plus a couple times I forgot to make a transfer from savings and overdrew the account (fortunately we knew the bank mgr well . It was a method easier for me to manage, then we would pay off monthly (the majority) with my lump sum yearly bonus. Reality now is we should have changed our methods to debit/cash. Cheers.


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## TiredFamilyGuy (Jan 18, 2014)

_OP, you cannot go through a marriage with someone you are afraid will have a temper tantrum every single time you try to have a reasonable discussion with them._

Yes, that is the problem really. 

It's not really about money - its about something else. Could be her feelings of self worth. Could be growing up poor and wanting new stuff. Could be feelings of control. Whatever. If she wants to get divorced because she can't just spend what she wants when you are in debt, then call that bluff in a firm but non wound up way. I would guess you don't like conflict - what reasonable person does? - but without some persistent directness, this will just fester.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You are getting good advice here.

I'd like to throw in that $1,500 a month for groceries is ridiculously high for a family of 4.

If your wife is buying a Target, a lot of what she's buying is not food. Target mostly has snack items, clothing and household items.

One of my sisters is law used to spend huge amounts of money on "groceries". Target was one of the stores she spent the most at. As it turns out, she was taking out a good bit of cash at the register every time she shopped there. She did this at other stores as well.

Look at your wife's receipts from target and other stores. look at what she's spending it on and how much cash she's withdrawing. If she's trashing the receipts... quietly start checking the trash.

My sister-in-law also used to throw fits about money the way your wife does. It's nothing more than a control ploy. You need to stop putting up with her temper tantrums. She does this because she likes the way things are as she can money as she pleases with no regard to anything or anyone else. And you are enabling her.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You have a very serious problem. Your 32 year old wife tantrums & threatens divorce; she does not respect you and is too overconfident and must have her way. You need to get her to work at part-time so that she can respect the toil it takes to make money. You are going to tire of living with a 32 year old little girl and your financial problems. You have children to take care of and you have a 3rd uncontrollable child-wife. It takes money for counseling services and is of no consequence if she doesn't see the seriousness of your financial problem. Also, do not ignore that you will need retirement savings. You won't be able to work forever. Your wife is not a partner, but a liability for you without restraint on her spending. I am 34 years married & first time marriage for both of us; we have been through high and low on our finances. You must have a partnership in marriage to make it work.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mort


The primary issue is that you are afraid of your wife. 

And the primary symptom of that is you have given her total control of her spending. 

The secondary issue is that she is selfish and unwilling to exercise self control when spending money. 

And the secondary symptom will be that she eventually bankrupts you. 

The only way to address the primary issue by making it clear you are willing to divorce now, instead of letting her first destroy your credit and then leave you. 

If you do that, you have a chance to begin rebuilding respect. If you don't do that, she will continue to treat you like a doormat. 




mort06 said:


> Some stats on us
> Me-35, wife 32, twins boy/girl almost 2. I work in the financial field, up to 63k/year, plus $22k dividend/bonus safely estimated for Feb 2015. She is SAHM, out of desire and that paying daycare for twins cancels out any income she could make. She had a bad history with money before we were married; her parents lived heavily on credit cards and never taught her anything.
> 
> The kids were born and she had to have everything, and generally times 2. Spent 5k to get their room in order, paid off that debt once we sold. The first year we did ok, she made a few bucks tutoring grade school kids but that fizzled up. She was two quarters away from finishing her masters in teaching when she got pregnant.
> ...


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## debster (Dec 17, 2012)

She has to be willing to work with you to live within your means. I agree with other posters that her behaviour is inappropriate. You should both be working towards common goals and controlling yourselves to meet these goals (not each other). The lopsided-ness is the problem here. In order for her to take it seriously you need to have a down-to-earth discussion. If it takes what MEM11363 said, to get her to see the light, then so be it. I don't like scare tactics but I've had to use them myself to get my message across sometimes and it has worked. My husband is now more committed to our reduced spending goals and I am much happier as a result.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

#1 - she needs to study for career. kids will grow up in time and she will HAVE to work.

#2 - tell her she either follows the budget or you are getting a divorce

You see my friend, you have a spoiled little brat as a wife that doesn't realize a) what it takes to MAKE money and b) how to be financially responsible

So you pick your battle:
Battle #1 - fight now HARD and put everything on the line
Battle #2 - be a slave to the bank
Battle #3 - be a slave to the bank even more and some more $$$ when the inevitable comes (divorce).


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## Monica sky (Sep 15, 2014)

ladymisato said:


> Given everything else you describe, this is probably the right solution. Take the on your shoulders and limit her access to finances.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

why can't you say no?


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

destroy all credit cards...
take complete total control of the budget
give her an allowance
watch your credit rating like a hawk in case when, not IF, when, she opens credit cards behond your back...
Make her get a job...something part time and on weekends...let her keep her money...when she is reminded og how hard she worked for that little chump change, she might think twice before spending your money...doubtful...but worth it...at least when she is at work she cant throw a tantrum at you

do this AND THEN tell her whats what...this aint up for discussion,tough titty you cant control your spending...

let her throw all the tantrums she wants...

and prepare for the worst...women who cant control their spending are no different that cheaters...they will ALWAYS be that way...ot might get better for a while but eventually...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

IMHO... He's as responsible for their mess as she is. He seems to think it's fine to live on credit, and then pay off the balances with his annual bonus. That's not a healthy way to live. Financially speaking. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Everyone has excellent points. She cannot run the show by acting like a child, throwing a temper tantrum and refusing to cooperate. If she's going to act like a child, she should be treated like one.

I'd say first you try to talk to her, then when she does this, I'd tell her since she doesn't want to have a say in it, then you'll make 100% of the financial decisions. And I'd tell her the bills are covered (house, utilities, loans - STUDENT loans mostly hers from the almost-masters, I gather?) and put a set amount into an account for her for gas, food and personal care stuff and clothes.

I spend $300/month on groceries for myself and one teen girl. I provide ALL 3 meals a day on that except an occasional treat out. Yes, some Targets have a full grocery section. I bet she's buying diapers, toiletries and cleaning supplies but also toys and all sorts of other stuff. Maybe she's throwing a tantrum because she's hiding the secret account she's creating with the cash back she gets. 

I agree with checking receipts. You'll know what she's spending the money on and it will help you make a realistic budget based on needs and a few wants. And once you implement the system, I personally think it would be worth paying for a credit monitoring service just so she doesn't go and open a new account to get around your system. I think in your case the $30/month would be well worth it. 

If she wants more money she certainly has the ability to earn it. Besides, part time daycare would be a good way for the kids to meet other kids and to separate them some so they don't become overly dependent on each other's company. Most elementary schools will put them in separate classrooms on purpose so that they socialize so don't let kindergarten be the very first time they have to interact with other kids without the sibling as a backup.

ETA - check for Target receipts BEFORE you confront her. She might be getting cash back so she can go to Nordstroms to buy something with cash so you don't know she just bought $100 sneakers or a $200 warm up suit. She seems to have a sense of entitlement.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> If she is this irresponsible, make sure she can't open new accounts and if she does, close them immediately and look for ways to prevent it


"make sure she can't open new accounts"

How? I discovered my wife, a SAHM, has a higher credit rating than I. I've heard this is not uncommon. All kinds of creditors are extremely eager to provide new credit accounts. The ways credit accounts are opened, on line, are plentiful.

"and if she does, close them immediately"

Oh? Unless he can turn back time to the 1950's, when wives often couldn't do transactions without their husband's approval, I doubt he can call the creditors and order the accounts closed, simply as her husband.

"and look for ways to prevent it"

That would be, keep fighting about it. The real answer.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

To open a credit card account may be easy if she has good credit. But, she can't open it jointly unless you sign the application. If you learn of an account and she's named you as a card-holder, call and remove yourself and tell the company that you have no responsibility for the account. If she does not have an income, nor access to a joint bank account, she won't be able to pay the credit card bill unless she has money in her own account - if she does, that's not your problem. If she racks up charges with no way to pay them - don't pay for her! It will trash her credit and soon she won't be able to open accounts. If necessary, notify all the credit agencies that you are being added to accounts without your permission, if that's happening.


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## Relationship (Sep 29, 2014)

There is only one choice, you need to handle all the money. If she cannot understand that after all you have been through and she threatens to leave, take her up on her threat. Either she will give in and you will control the money, or she will leave and you will be in control of the money. If you do not handle this now, there may come a point of no return. Remember, this can be an illness the same as gambling or drinking. If she had issues drinking, would you give her a bottle of wine?


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